[10:30] <Epeli> Is it safe to install upstart to Debian Squeeze using apt-get?
[10:31] <Epeli> I have a clean Squeeze installation and I would like to use upstart instead of init.d scripts
[10:33] <jhunt> Epeli: I wouldn't like to say. The version in debian is very old. Keybuk was/is going to update it I believe.
[10:37] <Epeli> hmm, maybe I'll just go for Ubuntu
[18:29] <bwlang> is it a bad idea do something like this? runlevel RUNLEVEL=1 PREVLEVEL=2; runlevel RUNLEVEL=2 PREVLEVEL=1 to simulate a reboot (without unmounting the filesystems?)
[18:35] <JanC> that doesn't exactly simulate a reboot...
[19:42] <simensen> I have a legacy app that has "server.sh start" and "server.sh stop" functionality that manages the starting and stopping of a java application (somewhere in there it launches java into the background with & ). Is there an easy/straightforward way to deal with this using upstart? Or do I have to rewrite the script?
[19:51] <ion> Move the pre-start stuff from the script to a pre-start section, change “java … &” to “exec java …”, that should be about it.
[20:58] <simensen> what would cause "sudo start myjob" to just hang? it never returns to the command prompt. if i control-c ( eventually ) and try to run it again it says it is already started.
[20:59] <simensen> and how do i debug these things? i can't seem to be getting any output anywhere. not sure what is going on. as far as i can tell, the code i'm putting in script and/or exec doesn't actually get run.
[21:57] <SpamapS> simensen: if your job is mentioned in an 'and' condition in some other job, then start will hang until the other conditions are met.
[21:57] <SpamapS> simensen: console output will spit out the program's stdout/stderr on /dev/console
[21:58] <SpamapS> simensen: you can also use  exec yourprogram | logger .. but that gets tricky with expect fork
[21:59] <simensen> yeah, this is getting ridiculous. i thought upstart was supposed to be simple and wanted to try it out but i've already spent a few hours on it and basically haven't gotten anything to work yet.
[22:07] <JanC> upstart is simple in some ways, but complicated in other ways  ☺
[22:07] <simensen> :)
[22:07] <simensen> well, now it just is hanging on my process.
[22:07] <simensen> does it get confused sometimes?
[22:08] <simensen> because it seems tow ork for a bit, then i think i've messed something up… but if i just rename the script from mysample.conf to mysample2.conf and run it, mysample2.conf runs just fine, but mysample.conf won't run anymore.
[22:09] <JanC> yes, currently (at least until Ubuntu 11.04) it gets confused if services fork more or less times than it expects
[22:09] <simensen> how do you recover from that?
[22:10] <simensen> can you reset it short of restarting the box?
[22:11] <JanC> there is a hack that involves attempting to create a process with the PID that upstart expects to see...
[22:12] <JanC> I think in your case it might be best to create an upstart job that has no exec stanza though
[22:12] <simensen> how so?
[22:13] <JanC> no main script/exec stanza I mean
[22:13] <JanC> call the server.sh script from the pre/start script/exec stanzas
[22:13] <simensen> hm.
[22:13] <JanC> pre/post start/stop
[22:13] <JanC> I think there is an example in the cookbook about that
[22:13] <simensen> which is the best place to run each? i thought i needed at least an exec or script?
[22:14] <JanC> not needed


[04:45] <dholbach> marcoceppi, how's the world of juju, layers and django? can we update ubucon-site again?
[04:46] <pleia2> a bit early for you dholbach
[04:46] <dholbach> I've got a few things to do today and woke up early :)
[04:46] <pleia2> usually dholbach hello means "pleia2 needs to go to bed" but it's only 21:46 :)
[04:46] <pleia2> hope you have a good one
[04:46]  * dholbach hugs pleia2
[04:46]  * pleia2 hugs dholbach
[04:46] <dholbach> you too! :-)
[04:47] <pleia2> thanks
[06:01] <svij> morning!
[06:02] <Kilos> hi svij dholbach Na3iL
[06:02] <svij> hi Kilos
[06:06] <dholbach> hi Kilos, svij
[06:07] <svij> hi dholbach
[06:39] <czajkowski> Morning folks
[06:39] <Kilos> hi czajkowski
[06:43] <czajkowski> Kilos: morning
[10:02] <popey> dpm: morning, did you get a chance to look at the music-app translation setup?
[10:02] <dpm> popey, morning. I didn't, but I can have a look at it now
[10:03] <popey> thanks
[10:04] <dpm> popey, do you happen to know which strings appeared untranslated?
[10:14] <dholbach> lunch
[11:23] <dpm> popey, mhall119, davidcalle_, jose, dholbach and I have just been talking and decided that it might be better to move today's Q&A to Thursday, same time
[11:23] <dpm> the reasons being that some of us are still busy with release tasks (e.g. snappy desktop examples and documentation)
[11:23] <dpm> and it'd be good to have an event on release day
[11:25] <dholbach> release day for maximum attendance :)
[11:27] <popey> heh, wise
[12:03] <mhall119> dpm: ok, I'd post that to social media then so people are aware
[13:21] <mhall119> svij: ping
[13:24] <svij> mhall119: pong
[13:27] <popey> dpm: https://translations.launchpad.net/music-app/refactor/+pots/com.ubuntu.music/es/+translate?show=untranslated - seems 5 missing - since we changed "Songs" to "Tracks"
[13:27] <dpm> popey, sorry, I got distracted with missing clock & calculator for the d.u.c docs
[13:28] <dpm> ok, so it seems it's just a matter of the strings not having been translated yet
[13:29] <mhall119> svij: hey, I won't be on the UbuCon call on Friday, but I have a question about sponsorships
[13:30] <popey> np :)
[13:30] <svij> mhall119: ok
[13:31] <mhall119> I've setup the brochure to currently say that sponsors are going through Canonical, is that okay or would you rather your legal entity handles the sponsorship agreements and money directly?
[13:32] <svij> It would be better if our association would do that directly
[13:34] <mhall119> svij: ok, then I'll need a contact name and email for someone in your association to put as the contact in the sponsorship form
[13:35] <svij> mhall119: http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/node/1 this should have all information. "ubuntu Deutschland e.V." as the association name, "Torsten Franz" as the contact
[13:35] <svij> and email is there too
[19:16] <jose> dpm: thursday at that time is busy
[19:16] <jose> mhall119, popey, davidcalle: ^
[19:17] <dpm> jose, we can do another time too
[19:17] <jose> dpm: would 16 UTC work for you?
[19:18] <dpm> jose, not for me particularly, but I can ask the other guys, I think it should be good if at least 2 of us can make it
[19:19] <jose> ok cool, just lmk :) ubuntuonair.com/calendar for current busy slots
[20:28] <jose> so, everyone ready for release Thursday? just two days away!
[20:29] <pleia2> still working to find a venue for our party in San Francisco
[20:29] <pleia2> aiming for early May though :)
[20:29] <jose> same here in Peru, I have a couple ideas of where we could make one
[20:30] <jose> fortunately, some other volunteers are going to jump in and give me a hand as well!
[20:30] <pleia2> hopefully things are on track to get the 16.04 usb sticks shipped off to teams
[20:30] <pleia2> that's great to hear
[20:30] <jose> having USB sticks would be great, just need to make sure we deal with customs in the right way
[20:30] <pleia2> yeah :\
[20:30] <pleia2> I imagine that's harder than for the dvds
[20:31] <knome> o hai pleia2
[20:31] <knome> (:
[20:31] <pleia2> o/ knome
[20:31] <knome> pleia2, work @ #x-d
[20:31] <knome> :P
[20:31] <pleia2> yes yes, on it :)
[20:59] <popey> SO MANY Emails from people begging for access to the etherpad/wiki
[21:00] <wxl> so how's that mediawiki transition coming along? XD
[21:01] <pleia2> popey: my favorite was "please join this the them"
[21:01] <pleia2> (I haven't been replying)
[21:02] <popey> I have. It's fun :)
[21:02] <pleia2> thank you
[21:02] <popey> wxl: I have a flight coming up and a new battery on my laptop. Planning to give it a go
[21:05] <wxl> popey: i had a hell of a time working through those scripts. they need a lot of work. if you figure it out, man, i'd be elated (this is for an outside wiki)
[21:28] <popey> aaaargh https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges
[21:30] <wxl> awww
[21:30] <wxl> well we're bound to screw up some of the time
[22:12] <tsimonq2> popey: uh oh, I screwed it up now, tried connecting to mattermost.popey.com and accidentally entered the wrong email...disconnected and can't connect back :/
[22:44] <popey> tsimonq2: eh? what if you try again with the right email?
[22:44] <popey> tsimonq2: from the invite link
[23:05] <tsimonq2> popey: but I literally cannot connect to do so
[23:07] <popey> tsimonq2: https://mattermost.popey.com/ubuntu/channels/town-square#
[23:07] <popey> what happens?
[23:10] <tsimonq2> http://i.imgur.com/KlUg8hD.png
[23:10] <tsimonq2> I'll log in
[23:10] <tsimonq2> all good
[23:11] <tsimonq2> 05:13:07 PM [Mattermost Ubuntu] -!- Irssi: Looking up mattermost.popey.com
[23:11] <tsimonq2> 05:13:07 PM [Mattermost Ubuntu] -!- Irssi: Connecting to mattermost.popey.com [<IP_ADDRESS>] port 6667
[23:11] <tsimonq2> 05:13:07 PM [Mattermost Ubuntu] -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server mattermost.popey.com port 6667 [Connection refused]
[23:11] <tsimonq2> sorry for the paste :)
[23:11] <popey> hmm
[23:12] <popey> ooh, it died
[23:12] <popey> try now
[23:12] <popey> i should add monitoring for this
[23:12] <tsimonq2>  \o/
[23:12] <tsimonq2> yay
[23:12] <tsimonq2> thanks popey :)
[23:42] <jcastro> popey: mhall119: cool, I got happy snappy now with the last update
[23:42] <jcastro> `sudo snap install links`
[23:43] <jcastro> looks like they cleaned up a bunch of things in the store too
[23:43] <popey> heh
[23:43] <popey> Links! Welcome to 2016
[23:43] <jcastro> well, I hadn't seen it actually work yet
[23:44] <jcastro> without weirdbinary.names and nonobvious things
[23:46] <jcastro> popey: I want to convince our team to setup a mattermost
[23:46] <popey> nooooo
[23:46] <jcastro> that irc gateway work as well as you'd hope?
[23:46] <popey> create a company wide one
[23:46] <popey> pretty well
[23:46] <popey> tsimonq2: broke it :)
[23:47] <popey> needs work, not stable enough yet
[23:47] <jcastro> well I was hoping IS would do that
[23:47] <jcastro> but that doesn't solve my immediate problem
[23:47] <jcastro> oh, so probably not production ready then
[23:51] <jcastro> popey: some of these spams are getting clever now
[23:52] <jcastro>  but 2 of them I looked at are like brand new accounts
[23:53] <popey> i reply to some, others are obvious
[23:54] <jcastro> some are obvious
[23:54] <jcastro> "I want to use the wiki" seems rather dubious
[23:54] <jcastro> like, uh huh, sure pal. I love going to the dentist too...
[23:55] <pleia2> I made app, many bugs, need account
[23:55] <pleia2> I can't even
[23:55] <jcastro> heh
[23:56] <popey>  😃


[02:08] <hyperair> Laney: what's the process for DD's to get PPU access to ubuntu again? just email you a list of packages i'm maintaining?
[02:11] <hyperair> aha found it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
[02:35] <Noskcaj> hyperair, tip: Don't apply be email, and i think the 19UTC meeting has a waiting list
[02:58] <hyperair> huh?
[03:00] <hyperair> Noskcaj: any reason why?
[03:01] <Noskcaj> Because applying by email takes a month or more
[03:01] <hyperair> ¬_¬ really?
[03:01] <Snow-Man> there's a waiting list?  hahahaha
[03:01] <Noskcaj> Whereas applying by irc take 1 hour max
[03:01] <hyperair> i'll wait for Laney to say something then.
[03:02] <hyperair> 19UTC today?
[03:02] <Noskcaj> It's later this month the 19utc meeting
[03:02] <hyperair> i see
[03:02] <hyperair> bleh 19utc is 3am here
[03:03] <Noskcaj> oh, then you'll want the 15utc meeting
[03:03] <hyperair> if i'm not asleep by then chances are i don't wake up on time then ext morning.
[03:03] <hyperair> ah 15utc
[03:03] <hyperair> when are the meetings anywya?
[03:04] <hyperair> ah every two weeks on monday eh
[03:05] <hyperair> hang on there's a 15UTC meeting today right?
[06:17] <pitti> bdmurray: that's because there currently is no code to try and install versions other than what apt would give you as default
[06:18] <pitti> Noskcaj: whoa, all-caps ping
[06:18] <pitti> Good morning
[06:38] <Noskcaj> pitti, debian just finished the libgphoto transition, but they chose a different -dev package name to you. We might need to do a second transition
[06:44] <pitti> Noskcaj: right; libgphoto2-dev is indeed saner, but I didn't want to change the naming schema in Ubuntu only
[06:45] <pitti> Noskcaj: shouldn't be a big deal, it's just adjusting < 10 build deps of packages; that can be done very quickly
[06:45] <pitti> Noskcaj: ah, were you looking at merging libgphoto2?
[06:45] <Noskcaj> yeah
[06:45] <pitti> Noskcaj: if you are, I can do the transition for the build dep renaming
[06:46] <Noskcaj> I'm trying to get the pkg-phototools stuff in a decent state.
[06:46] <Noskcaj> I can do all the work, just will need sponsoring
[06:46] <pitti> we used to be able to sync libgphoto2, perhaps we can even do that again
[06:46] <pitti> Noskcaj: nah, don't try to do the libgphoto2-6-dev → libgphoto2-dev transition
[06:46] <Noskcaj> ok
[06:46] <pitti> that's like zero brain work, just mechanical; without upload privs, sponsoring is more work than just doing it
[06:47] <Noskcaj> makes sense
[06:47] <pitti> ooh, Debian has a .hwdb file now?
[06:47] <pitti> *want*
[06:49] <pitti> Noskcaj: hopefully the only remaining change is dh-autoreconf (and that can be reported to Debian)
[06:50] <Noskcaj> looks like just the autoreconf
[06:52] <Noskcaj> Could you test if we do actually need the autoreconf?
[06:52] <pitti> Noskcaj: and it's missing the "Replaces: libgphoto2-2" on libgphoto2-6
[06:52] <Noskcaj> ok
[06:53] <pitti> it reintroduces libgphoto2-2-dev, that should just be dropped again for our merge, too
[06:53] <pitti> meh, and debian missed to update some 2-2 to 2-6 in various *.isntall
[06:54] <pitti> Noskcaj: looks like you actually need to walk through the whole debian/ubuntu diff; there are several fixes that ought to be done to Debian's package, too, so that will spit out some bug reports
[06:54] <pitti> Noskcaj: autoreconf isn't necessary, debian already has --with autotools_dev
[06:55] <pitti> Noskcaj: I mean, that delta can be dropped
[06:55]  * Noskcaj decides to try and fix everything in debian instead
[06:55] <pitti> *nod*
[06:55] <pitti> Noskcaj: also, Debian still installs the *.udev file, that ought to go
[06:55] <pitti> having *both* a .rules and a .hwdb is just unnecessary overhead
[06:56] <Noskcaj> How do i merge git branches? The debian uploader did his work in a separate branch
[06:56] <hyperair> git merge
[06:56] <pitti> sohudl just be "git checkout master; git merge <branch name>"
[06:56] <pitti> or even pull, for cleaner history
[06:57] <hyperair> afaik there's no difference between git fetch+merge and git pull
[06:57] <hyperair> unless you're talking about pull -r
[06:57] <hyperair> which is equivalent to rebase
[06:58] <pitti> maybe; so far I never merged in git
[06:58] <pitti> the git world is pretty deeply entrenched to the concept of "send git-formatted patches to MLs or bug reports"  workflow, at least in the gnome and plumbing world
[07:00] <hyperair> pitti: yeah, but in the github world it's deeply entrenched in "send me a pull request"
[07:00] <pitti> *nod*
[07:00]  * hyperair prefers the git-formatted patches approach though, for individual fixes
[07:01] <hyperair> for stuff that involves a non-linear history, then i upload somewhere and tell whoever to pull
[07:01] <pitti> yes, it works quite well for those "little contributions"
[07:01] <pitti> for developing a major new feature, branches work better though
[07:02] <hyperair> well, yes
[07:02] <hyperair> it really depends on the kind of contribution we're talking about
[07:02] <hyperair> imo it's more about the kind of commits that it generates that determines which approach is better rather than the kind of work you're doing.
[07:06] <Noskcaj> crap, alioth git is still broken
[07:11] <Noskcaj> pitti, If you have the time, please do the merge into ubuntu. It will be quite some time before this get's fully fixed in debian, and you actually understand the current changes
[07:11] <pitti> ok
[07:11] <Noskcaj> ty
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:40] <pitti> Noskcaj: libgphoto2 built, I sent the two remaining changes to Debian as bugs; I just uploaded all rebuilds/syncs
[08:42] <Noskcaj> pitti, thanks.
[09:07] <directhex> are there restrictions on who can post to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[09:08] <pitti> directhex: not from the sending side; but it's moderated
[09:51] <Laney> hyperair: don't listen to the trolling, DD-PPU is super quick if you already have some PPU, which you do
[09:52] <hyperair> Laney: i figured that might be the case. i've already sent the email.
[10:02] <darkxst> Laney, can you bump the codesearch server?
[10:02] <Laney> argh
[10:02] <Laney> that piece of ...
[10:20] <mpt> ev, bdmurray: Any idea what caused the big dip in reported Trusty errors from January 10th to 28th?
[10:21] <mpt> Or what caused the lack of data from January 30th to February 3rd?
[10:24] <Laney> darkxst: there we go
[10:25] <darkxst> Laney, thanks
[10:55] <shadeslayer> would it be possible to enable deb-src's in the Buildd's?
[11:07] <RAOF> shadeslayer: What do you want deb-srcs for on the buildds?
[11:08] <shadeslayer> RAOF: I have a meta package that should depend on the build depends of another package
[11:09] <shadeslayer> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6908474/
[11:10] <rbasak> shadeslayer: I can't answer your question, but you might want to know about grep-dctrl(1) if you don't already.
[11:11] <rbasak> (for line 11)
[11:11] <shadeslayer> rbasak: how would that help ? I want to get the build depends of kdelibs in the source of meta-kde
[11:13] <rbasak> shadeslayer: just to parse apt-cache showsrc output a little more "correctly".
[11:13] <shadeslayer> oh
[11:13] <seb128> apachelogger, " libkubuntu0 - ((DESCRIPTION))" ... need better description ;-)
[11:13] <rbasak> shadeslayer: instead of the grep|cut thing you have which I could subvert with an imaginative package :-)
[11:14] <apachelogger> seb128: huh, lol
[11:14] <apachelogger> seb128: sounds descriptive enough to me :P
[11:14]  * apachelogger fixes
[11:14] <seb128> lol
[11:14] <seb128> thanks
[11:14] <seb128> I wonder who NEW reviewed it, could have spotted that :p
[11:14] <seb128> Riddell, ^?
[11:17] <Riddell> seb128: hmm, yes, my fail, I normally run .debs through lesspipe as well as lintian but I seem to have only done lintian for these ones :(
[11:18] <shadeslayer> rbasak: thanks for the tip :)
[11:18] <shadeslayer> RAOF: so any chance of getting deb-src enabled?
[11:19] <Mirv> could a core dev possibly ack the following libunity packaging change dropping libgee usage, so that cu2d could be used to publish the package (after finalizing testing on Ubuntu Touch too): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6908355/
[11:21] <apachelogger> Riddell, seb128: fixed
[11:21] <seb128> apachelogger, thanks
[11:23] <seb128> Mirv, +1
[11:33] <Mirv> thank you
[11:51] <xnox> cjwatson: in the new world order, which branch of click i should target? (as in which one has 0.4.15?)
[12:02] <cjwatson> xnox: just target lp:click, I should get round to pulling the trivial bump of 0.4.15
[12:03] <cjwatson> xnox: but feature branches should always target lp:click, and then the other branch is for landing
[12:03] <xnox> cjwatson: ack, thanks.
[12:08] <davmor2> tseliot: Morning.  Got hit by bug #1277014 this morning.  I did an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade and everything is working again now.  I'm wondering if it might be that there is something racy there as I was hit by it yesterday when I used it a lot
[12:11] <Chipaca> since the last update, ctrl+space is popping up a keyboard layout switch thingie
[12:11] <Chipaca> as an emacs user, this is a huge problem :(
[12:12] <tseliot> davmor2: that doesn't seem to be a valid bug number
[12:12] <Chipaca> the keyboard layout switcher key was set to super-space, i changed it to ctrl-alt-space just in case, to no avail
[12:12] <davmor2> tseliot: ah it's private
[12:13] <tseliot> davmor2: can you subscribe me, please?
[12:13] <davmor2> tseliot: made it public bug #1277014
[12:17] <seb128> Chipaca, change it in ibus-setup I guess?
[12:17] <Chipaca> augh
[12:17] <Chipaca> seb128: indeed, it says ctrl-space there
[12:18] <Chipaca> seb128: thanks
[12:18] <seb128> Chipaca, yw
[12:18] <Chipaca> seb128: are you aware of a bug about this?
[12:18] <seb128> Chipaca, does changing it resolve the issue?
[12:18] <Chipaca> seb128: I mean: should changing this (in ibus-setup) do the same as changing whatever the indicator thingie changes?
[12:18] <seb128> no, I don't know how a bug about that
[12:19] <seb128> happyaron, ^
[12:19] <seb128> Chipaca, that was discussed in the past, I'm still unsure what the differences between both are
[12:19] <seb128> imho the ibus one should be unset by default
[12:19] <seb128> but I want happyaron to confirm, since he maintains ibus
[12:20] <Chipaca> also, ctrl-space offering two layouts when i only have one configured is quite surprising
[12:20] <seb128> what are the 2 ones?
[12:20] <tseliot> davmor2: ok, thanks, I'll investigate the issue
[12:21] <Chipaca> seb128: one is "English (US)". The other is "English (interna...". I believe the second one is the one I have configured, which starts with the same string.
[12:21] <seb128> Chipaca, I think US is added to the list as a fallback, it should probably not be displayed in the switcher though
[12:22] <Chipaca> also the indicator calling the bar where it's shown it the "menu bar" is not nice
[12:22] <davmor2> tseliot: I turned on the laptop about 4-5 times yesterday for various bits no issues, this morning turn it on and I was dropped to low gfx mode (which doesn't seem to work at all, by the way) dist-upgrade and now I'm back to a working system :) I Don't think there was anything GFX wise installed I'll double check though
[12:23]  * Chipaca stops moaning and gets back to work
[12:23] <mpt> Chipaca, why? That’s what it’s called.
[12:23] <Chipaca> mpt: wait, that bar is called the 'menu bar'?
[12:23] <shadeslayer> RAOF: still waiting for an answer
[12:23] <Chipaca> that bar, where a bunch of stuff is always present, and menus are only sometimes present, is called the 'menu bar'?
[12:24] <shadeslayer> seb128: ping
[12:24] <seb128> shadeslayer, hey
[12:25] <shadeslayer> seb128: any idea who maintains apturl? You were the last person to touch it
[12:25] <seb128> shadeslayer, not sure it's actively maintained, why?
[12:25] <seb128> shadeslayer, but mvo is the closest from a maintainer for it
[12:25] <tseliot> davmor2: ok
[12:25] <shadeslayer> seb128: well because apparently it doesn't work on any of the flavors or ubuntu for that matter
[12:26] <mpt> Chipaca, except for maximized window buttons, that stuff is all menus. Compare the Power panel of System Settings, and the Clock tab of the Time & Date panel.
[12:26] <seb128> shadeslayer, do you have a patch?
[12:26] <shadeslayer> seb128: sort of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1261178/comments/1
[12:26] <shadeslayer> seb128: that sorts it out on Ubuntu and Xubuntu at the very least
[12:26] <shadeslayer> but not on Kubuntu
[12:27] <Chipaca> mpt: the indicators are considered menus?
[12:27] <seb128> shadeslayer, that bug is about firefox, not apturl
[12:27] <mpt> Chipaca, that was the whole point of introducing them in the first place.
[12:27] <shadeslayer> seb128: it most certainly is since apturl.js is provided by apturl
[12:28] <shadeslayer> apturl-common: /etc/firefox/pref/apturl.js
[12:28] <davmor2> tseliot: no x-org but there was a kernel+headers etc update so that may of had an effect
[12:28] <seb128> shadeslayer, running e.g
[12:28] <seb128> $ apturl-gtk apt:samba
[12:28] <seb128> works fine for me
[12:28] <shadeslayer> seb128: changed affected package to apturl
[12:28] <shadeslayer> seb128: sure, but try : apt://samba in firefox
[12:28] <Chipaca> mpt: the point of indicators was not to call them menus, i'm sure
[12:29] <seb128> shadeslayer, "sure", you just said that apturl didn't work
[12:29] <seb128> shadeslayer, do you have an example of website using an apt url?
[12:29] <mpt> Chipaca, http://design.canonical.com/2010/04/notification-area/
[12:29] <shadeslayer> okay, maybe I worded it poorly, but the bug is clearly in apturl since it does not symlink the file
[12:30] <shadeslayer> seb128: apps.ubuntu.com ? :)
[12:30] <seb128> shadeslayer, ok, I understand what you mean now, but it's not "apturl doesn't work at all", it's "apturl integration is buggy"
[12:30] <Chipaca> mpt: well i'll be
[12:30] <shadeslayer> seb128: yeah, to be more verbsoe, apturl integration with firefox is buggy
[12:31] <shadeslayer> http://www.getdeb.net/software/xVideoServiceThief
[12:31] <shadeslayer> so get deb uses apturl too ^^
[12:31] <Chipaca> mpt: i would've never, ever thought we called those things menus
[12:31] <Chipaca> mpt: i shall use the correct name from here on then
[12:31] <mpt> :)
[12:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, could you have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apturl/+bug/1261178 ? is that a firefox issue?
[12:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, reading https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1169320/comments/2 ... should /usr/lib/firefox/defaults/pref be used indeed?
[12:39] <seb128> shadeslayer, I'm going to get it fixed, thanks for pointing the issue
[12:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yes, it's a firefox issue
[12:40] <chrisccoulson> adding a preference override is definitely not the correct fix though
[12:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, should apturl just install that file in /usr/lib/firefox/defaults/pref ? that seems to make things work
[12:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128, no, that's wrong. nobody should be installing any files in there
[12:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, what's the correct fix then? ;-)
[12:41] <chrisccoulson> the URI handling in firefox needs fixing
[12:41] <seb128> shrug
[12:41] <seb128> that sounds like something non trivial :/
[12:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can I just do the wrong thing and install the file in that dir nobody should be using until that happens? ;-)
[12:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128, no, please don't do that ;)
[12:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can you fix the url handling then? ;-)
[12:43] <chrisccoulson> it needs somebody who understands the code in http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/d8d8fa98ee7d/uriloader/exthandler ;)
[12:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, if you say so, I'm unsure why we needed that apturl.js at all, I assumed it was because that's not a standard handler
[13:03] <apachelogger> can anyone explain what the output regarding kubuntu-full means http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt please? or more to the point, why it is not considered for upgrade
[13:27] <cjwatson> apachelogger: it means that the arm64 kubuntu-full package would be uninstallable if promoted; proposed-migration won't increase the global uninstallable count
[13:27] <cjwatson>  kubuntu-full : Depends: calligra but it is not going to be installed
[13:27] <cjwatson>                 Depends: kdeedu but it is not going to be installed
[13:27] <cjwatson>                 Depends: kdenetwork but it is not going to be installed
[13:27] <cjwatson> that's the cause
[13:29] <cjwatson> we could hack those out of the seeds for arm64, but I'd rather see them all built since that's simpler all round
[13:30] <cjwatson> the current blocker is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opengtl/0.9.18-0ubuntu1/+build/5378634, since arm64 never had llvm-3.3; it might be worth attempting to bump that to llvm-3.4
[13:31] <Riddell> cjwatson: where do you read those lines you pasted?
[13:32] <cjwatson> I ran "chdist apt-get trusty-proposed-arm64 install kubuntu-full" in a suitable chdist instance
[13:33] <Riddell> hmm, chdist sounds like something I should get to know
[13:34] <cjwatson> It's very handy
[13:35] <cjwatson> You obviously have to not let it actually try to install anything since it very much won't work
[13:35]  * rbasak uses a wrapper he calls hcdist which fixes chdist's braindead parameter ordering
[13:36] <Maulkin> cjwatson: I'm also lurking in here in case people have questions
[13:37]  * cjwatson nods
[13:44] <apachelogger> cjwatson: uh, thank you
[13:52] <Maulkin> cjwatson: you have mail for moderation.
[13:53] <pitti> Maulkin: ah, the valve games? moderating
[13:53] <Maulkin> pitti: yup
[13:54] <Maulkin> Thanks :)
[13:54] <pitti> nice!
[13:54] <Maulkin> pitti: Enjoy!
[13:54] <pitti> so after DoSing the Debian community, the Ubuntu community will be game-DoSed next :0
[13:54]  * pitti repairs his smiley -- ☺
[13:55] <Maulkin> Pretty much, and there's another one we're looking at too, but working out how to deal with the requests is more tricky. Apparently GPG isn't universal yet!
[14:00] <cjwatson> pitti: ah, you're too quick for me
[14:05] <xnox> Maulkin: well, launchpad account must have an email address setup, check launchpad account membership in e.g. ~ubuntu-members (or whatever the restriction is) and mail the activation keys via launchpad contact that user...
[14:05] <directhex> time to cower in fear of my inbox?
[14:05] <xnox> Maulkin: most of above is available over API I believe.
[14:05] <Maulkin> directhex: ack
[14:06] <xnox> Maulkin: uploading ~ubuntu-members have gpg key attached to their launchpad-id, so can verify that signed requests for a given id matches the key for that id on launchpad.
[14:07] <xnox> Maulkin: and launchpad does do gpg-signed challenge to add the gpg key to the account.
[14:07] <directhex> xnox, cjwatson helped me extract all valid keys from LP
[14:07] <xnox> (gpg-encrypted challenge that is)
[14:07] <xnox> directhex: i hope they aren't a lot of duplicates =)
[14:07] <directhex> Maulkin, which ML did that go on?
[14:08] <Maulkin> directhex: ubuntu-devel-announce
[14:13] <maswan> directhex: Ok, I'll slack yet another week before dusting off my very dusty gpg key then. :)
[14:14] <cjwatson> xnox: I used the correct approach, which is to follow ArchivePermission records attached to the primary archive
[14:17] <xnox> cjwatson: interesting, i see =)
[14:22] <mterry> @pilot in
[14:32] <mlankhorst> @pilot in
[14:38] <tseliot> davmor2: I think the problem lies in X, but we'll see...
[14:42] <davmor2> tseliot: right.
[14:42] <Riddell> can anyone give me the output of this on ppc64el and arm64? dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_CPU
[14:42] <xnox> Riddell: dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_CPU -aarm64
[14:43] <xnox> Riddell: dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_CPU -appc64el
[14:43] <xnox> =)
[14:43] <Riddell> xnox: you're a genius
[14:44] <xnox> Riddell: nah, dpkg just hardcodes _all_ values for any arch =)
[14:50] <tseliot> davmor2: was the system set to use intel or nvidia when the system crashed?
[14:51] <davmor2> tseliot: let me double check for you
[14:51] <davmor2> tseliot: intel for me
[14:52] <tseliot> davmor2: ok, that's probably good news. Thanks
[14:53] <davmor2> tseliot: no worries
[15:13] <rbasak> Conflicting packages can be concurrently be in a removed-but-not-purged state, right?
[15:15] <cjwatson> Yes
[15:15] <rbasak> Thanks
[15:18] <rbasak> So mysql-server-5.5 owns /var/lib/mysql, and conflicts with mysql-server-5.6 (say), which does the same, and they conflict. What's the expected behaviour on package purge? Should /var/lib/mysql, which contains the relevant database itself, be purged? Currently, there's some really ugly code in this area.
[15:19] <rbasak> There's a debconf option to say what should happen, but also code to try and not do the purge if a different mysql-server-* is installed, since otherwise it would destroy the wrong data.
[15:19] <rbasak> The whole arrangement seems wrong to me, but I'm not sure of the correct solution.
[15:23] <arges> @pilot in
[15:29]  * dholbach hugs arges, mterry and mlankhorst
[15:29] <arges> lots of patch pilot love today
[15:30] <Laney> feel the lurve
[15:30] <mterry> arges, mlankhorst: btw, I was doing a run of syncs.  When I'm done I'll start on merge requests unless ya'll have started any
[15:30] <mterry> Didn't realize I had so much company today  :)
[15:31] <Laney> don't forget to prod the harder things along ;-)
[15:31] <Laney> (re: conversation in #-meeting atm)
[15:33] <arges> mterry: i'm working on kexec-tools atrm
[15:33] <mlankhorst> mterry: well hard for me since I'm not core-dev O:-)
[15:33] <mterry> arges, cool
[15:34] <Laney> no! you can help by reviewing and then communicating your findings to your fellow pilots so that they can upload
[15:34] <mterry> mlankhorst, yar if you reviewed a request in main that would make my job easier, I could just push a button then :)
[15:35] <Laney> patch piloting != uploading
[15:35] <Laney> if I drew a venn diagram there would be an overlap but one wouldn't be contained in the other
[15:40] <xnox> Laney: venn diagram for above: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/1920184_10153960264685727_501779264_n.jpg
[15:40] <mterry> :)
[15:41] <Laney> :D
[15:45] <mlankhorst> o.O
[15:48] <bdmurray> pitti: so then if a retracer config has -updates available the package version from -updates will be chosen regardless of whether or not the crashing system was using it, correct?
[15:49] <mlankhorst> @pilout out
[15:49] <udevbot> Error: "pilout" is not a valid command.
[15:49] <mlankhorst> ugh, have to run!
[15:49] <mlankhorst> @pilot out
[15:49] <pitti> bdmurray: right
[15:49] <bdmurray> pitti: do you think it would be much work to change that?
[15:50] <pitti> bdmurray: a few hours probably
[15:57]  * mterry works on makecoredump merge
[15:57] <mterry> makedumpfile that is
[16:11]  * mterry works on sshfs-fuse
[16:14] <ari-tczew> o/
[16:15] <ari-tczew> mterry: the change is forwarded to Debian
[16:15] <mterry> ari-tczew, oh good, I was about to look
[16:16] <mterry> ah, they accepted already
[16:16] <mterry> sync in the future, yay!  :)
[16:21] <ari-tczew> ;)
[16:24]  * mterry looks at zabbix, another Artur production
[16:26] <Laney> cjwatson: could you please moderate my u-d-a mail?
[16:28] <Laney> mterry: ari-tczew can now upload himself ;-)
[16:28] <caribou> mterry: thanks for makedumpfile; I got a bunch of uploads on duplicity if you fell like it ;-)
[16:29] <mterry> caribou, oh right!
[16:29] <mterry> caribou, yeah I should probably do those for ya
[16:29] <mterry> Laney, oh?  good news!
[16:29] <cjwatson> Laney: done
[16:30] <Laney> cheers
[16:30] <ari-tczew> Laney: not for main, unfortunately
[16:31] <Laney> ah
[16:31] <Laney> yeah, keep on getting sponsored there
[16:31] <mterry> ari-tczew, well, you can bug 1277268 off my hands then!  :)
[16:31] <mterry> *take
[16:32] <ari-tczew> mterry: sure
[16:32] <mterry> ari-tczew, congrats and welcome btw!  :)
[16:32]  * ari-tczew is out of battery
[16:33] <mterry> humph
[16:41] <xnox> Laney: lol, i should be elected straight out of the bat then ;-)
[17:13]  * arges looks at sudo merge
[17:20] <ogra_> arges, again ?!?
[17:21] <ogra_> feels like there are weekly merges now :)
[17:21] <arges> ogra_: i just looked at the grab-merge page and it was there
[17:23] <arges> but yea i see your point
[17:25] <ClientAlive> I would like to apply the patch given for bug 1161594 : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdevilspie/+bug/1161594?comments=all   but I am not comfortable enough with the process and don't feel the instruction given in post #9 : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdevilspie/+bug/1161594/comments/9   is adequate for me. Would someone be so kind as to clarify the instructions given in post #9, make sure nothing is missing,
[17:26] <ClientAlive> and walk me through the process for me, my first time doing something like this ?
[17:44] <arges> ClientAlive: so this is a bug in trusty?
[17:45] <ClientAlive> arges: I'm running Saucy
[17:45] <ClientAlive> It is a bug for me
[17:46] <arges> ClientAlive: ok so you know its a bug in saucy. So generally we first need to see if its a bug in the development release before we do whats called an SRU to stable releases
[17:46] <arges> from the look of it both trusty/saucy are the same version
[17:46] <ClientAlive> arges: I kinda need this app ( in fact, I was hoping to use it today ). Is there anything I can do?
[17:47] <ClientAlive> ok
[17:48] <arges> ClientAlive: so to get the package properly fixed it takes time. The SRU process can't happen immediately since it needs to go through testing and verification
[17:48] <arges> ClientAlive: it looks like somebody posted a test package that you could try to verify on your own system, and in the meantime we work on getting it fixed properly
[17:49] <arges> ClientAlive: are you the author of this fix?
[17:50] <ClientAlive> arges: No I am not. While I am studying to be a web developer/sortware developer, I'm far from knowing how to do something like that.
[17:50] <arges> ClientAlive: ok let me take a look
[17:51] <ClientAlive> arges: When you say test package, are you referring to post #10 ? Is that what that .deb is?
[17:51] <ClientAlive> ok
[17:51] <ClientAlive> thank you
[17:51] <arges> ClientAlive: yea a .deb is a debian package. This is what ubuntu/debian use to package and install software
[17:51] <arges> ClientAlive: so you could download that package and type 'dpkg -i <name of package>' in a terminal, or double click on the .deb file. You should be careful to ensure you trust the package you are installed
[17:51] <arges> installing
[17:54] <ClientAlive> arges: Ok, cool. May I ask, should I first remove the gdevilspie I installed through software center? And, if so, what is the best way to do that? My concern is mainly to do with whether I need to remove both devilspie and gdevilspie or if just removing gdevilspie would be sufficiant. Also, Would it be better to do a apt-get purge --autoremove   or something other?
[17:54] <ClientAlive> Thanks
[17:57] <arges> ClientAlive: should be able to just install it without removing since it should be built against the same version
[17:57] <ClientAlive> arges: Thanks
[17:59]  * mterry looks at dropbear merge
[18:02] <ClientAlive> arges: Appeas to be working just fine now.  Yes, gdevilspie does launch with that .deb installed, and yes the setting to autolaunch the daemon does stay set. However, after closing and restarting the application, it claims the daemon is not running ( even though the option remains ticked ). I don't know if the massage is accurate or not ( that the daemon is not running ) but that's a pretty crucial patrt of gdevilspie.
[18:14] <ClientAlive> Just thought I'd share. fwiw anyhow.
[18:15] <arges> ClientAlive: please add that feedback to the bug. Thanks!
[18:15] <ClientAlive> arges: Will do
[18:15] <mterry> @pilot out
[19:38] <doko> jtaylor, I can have a look. but honestly I don't care that much if the few tests are disabled
[19:38] <jtaylor> doko: k I'll upload pandas witohout the cycle
[19:38] <jtaylor> just test built it
[19:39] <jtaylor> fun 3MB large debian.tar.gz ._.
[19:58] <jtaylor> btw does someone want to get me a backtrace of the numpy segfault on ppc64?
[20:26] <sarnold> pitti: hello, I think the trusty retracers are unhappy again: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1278071 needs to be retraced still
[20:27] <sarnold> what's this 'malone' that the goofy bot keeps referring to? :)
[20:28] <slangasek> malone is the bugs component of launchpad; largely obsolete nomenclature
[20:29] <sarnold> ah :) thanks
[20:55] <g0twig> hey there
[20:55] <g0twig> I did read this
[20:56] <g0twig> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-February/001079.html
[20:56] <g0twig> did anyone of you take this offer?
[20:56] <g0twig> I dont know if I am allowed to accept this offer, well I am Ubuntu Member
[20:57] <g0twig> does this mean I am an "Ubuntu Developer"?
[20:57] <g0twig> I made code contributions to Ubuntu, to gain this status
[20:59] <slangasek> g0twig: that would be a question for Neil (on behalf of Valve); it states "Ubuntu Developers", which would mean members of the ~ubuntu-dev team in Launchpad
[20:59] <slangasek> but I don't know if that's the intent
[20:59] <g0twig> well, than I am not allowed :X
[20:59] <g0twig> I was into Unity stuff
[21:22] <dobey> slangasek, g0twig: you must have upload rights to some package in the archive to get the offer
[21:23] <slangasek> dobey: ok, so the wording is deliberate and it's tied to Ubuntu Developer rights, not Ubuntu Membership - thanks for confirming
[21:25] <dobey> slangasek: right. also, see http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/595/
[21:26] <dobey> some people were confused about DD vs. contributor and such there
[21:28] <xnox> barry: if you are around, what's the progress on bilingual emulators? are those in the archive yet? or can i somehow test them with my phablet-test-run branch?
[21:29] <barry> xnox: not in the archive yet.  i'm working with the autopilot guys to get on the train, but i think it's more like america and less like germany in that there are delays along the line ;)
[21:30] <xnox> barry: lol =) well there are 10 merge proposals inflight to land, and i guess autopilot re-exec will make the next round of landing.
[21:30] <barry> xnox: that's what we're working toward ;)
[21:31] <xnox> barry: i think i'll ask sergiusens to land phablet-tools branch, after testing it doesn't regress current test-results. Such that when autopilot lands it all just works together =)
[21:31] <xnox> barry: or we will just have impedance mis-match fixes to get everything onto python3.
[21:32] <barry> xnox: that sounds like a plan
[21:32] <xnox> barry: cool =)
[21:39] <spineau> mterry: Hello, I have a new package in the checkbox dependency collection requiring a mir review: checkbox-ng. If you have time today could you please have a look at bug 1277408?
[21:39] <mterry> spineau, literally looking at it now!  :)
[21:39] <spineau> mterry: fantastic, thanks
[21:43] <g0twig> dobey: I am so sad
[21:44] <dobey> g0twig: go get to work and become a dev then
[21:44] <g0twig> dobey: I am not into packaging
[21:45] <g0twig> I am not a fan of those package principles
[21:45] <g0twig> I am a coder
[21:45] <g0twig> I think deb and rpm are outdated concepts
[21:48] <arges> @pilot out
[22:17] <sergiusens> xnox, barry we can put autopilot and phablet-tools in the same atomic train push
[22:17] <thomi> sergiusens: we're in the mniddle of landing a new AP today
[22:18] <sergiusens> thomi, that's a different landing though
[22:18] <thomi> different to what?
[22:18] <sergiusens> read backlog ;-)
[22:18] <xnox> thomi: next one =) autopilot re-exec branch.
[22:19] <thomi> right, but that branch isn't ready yet, AFAIK
[22:19] <xnox> sergiusens: well, phablet-tools can go ahead, as it does a dynamic check if /usr/bin/autopilot on device is new one or old one.
[22:20] <xnox> sergiusens: so, my changes shouldn't regress any existing tests with current autopilot & python2. And it should stay compatible, when autopilot-reexec lands.
[22:20] <sergiusens> xnox, want it in now then?
[22:20] <sergiusens> xnox, I want to wait for balloons to give me the list of ap py3 ready click tests though
[22:20] <xnox> sergiusens: well, having it in the ppa would be nice.
[22:21] <xnox> sergiusens: i don't think there are any py3 ap tests, since no emulators are python3 compatible in the archive.
[22:21] <xnox> sergiusens: so no clicks should declare autopilot_dir and last time I've checked none of them do.
[22:21] <xnox> sergiusens: did you already revert that? or did i not find those that declare that in the archive already / on the images?
[22:23] <RAOF> shadeslayer: Oh, sorry. I don't have any ability to enable deb-src on the buildds. I was just trying to extract reasoning so that someone who *does* could determine whether or not it's compelling.
[22:23] <sergiusens> xnox, I need to revert two
[22:24] <sergiusens> xnox, oh sweet, none have been actually released :-)
[22:25] <ari-tczew> who are the admins of 'Ubuntu Members' ?
[22:25] <ari-tczew> I'd like to set @ubuntu.com alias etc.
[22:27] <StevenK> ari-tczew: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers
[22:32] <xnox> sergiusens: excellent, if they haven't been released they'd need to adapt if phablet-tools lands first.
[22:32] <xnox> sergiusens: can i get new phablet tools into a silo, such that i can do final testing and push it into the archive?
[22:43] <shadeslayer> RAOF: know anyone who could help me with that?
[22:45] <RAOF> shadeslayer: I'd probably poke the almighty cjwatson. That said, there's seems to be a roughly equally easy solution for you that doesn't require deb-src on the buildd - generating debian/control before upload.
[22:46] <RAOF> As far as I can tell the only thing that wouldn't get you is on-LP binary rebuilds. But we don't have them either :)
[22:49] <sergiusens> xnox, sure; but give me a chance to review as well
[22:54] <tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, hi
[23:10] <cjwatson> shadeslayer,RAOF: I think I would prefer not having to make a change to Launchpad to add deb-src to every build for the sake of a single package where there's a reasonable alternative ...
[23:10] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ack
[23:10] <cjwatson> It *probably* wouldn't be harmful, but it would slow every build down a bit, don't know whether it's worth it
[23:11] <cjwatson> Is deb-src enabled in Debian buildds?
[23:11] <cjwatson> Hmm, https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=grub2&arch=amd64&ver=2.02~beta2-6&stamp=1390961236 suggests it is
[23:12] <cjwatson> Maybe it's worth doing just for the sake of alignment then?
[23:12] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: Basically I'm vacillating. :-)  I suggest filing a Launchpad bug, as Launchpad's what feeds the sources.list to each build
[23:12] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: haha, okay :)
[23:13] <cjwatson> I'm surprised this is the first time (AFAIK) in the eight years or so since we switched to LP for builds that it's come up
[23:13] <xnox> cjwatson: i used chdist in android build, to get deb-src lines. But i wouldn't want to slow down _all_ builders because of that.
[23:13] <xnox> (and thus apt-get source)
[23:13] <cjwatson> I was going to mention a performance penalty, but I suspect it's negligible
[23:14] <cjwatson> chdist would work, or other similar approaches with user-level apt configurations, though it's a bit roundabout
[23:14] <xnox> cjwatson: if it does incur in performance penalty, we have quite networking problems =) given that src are smaller than binary packages indexes.
[23:15] <cjwatson> Quite
[23:15] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: I'll file one tomorrow morning
[23:15] <cjwatson> OK, ta
[23:15]  * shadeslayer heads to bed, night \o
[23:17] <xnox> shadeslayer: what's the package in question? and are you sure you must use deb-src on the buildds?
[23:19] <cjwatson> Alignment with Debian's buildds carries a lot of weight with me.  Generally we win a few more things we don't have to mess about with to get them to build every time we fix some aspect of our builds to be more in line with Debian.
[23:19] <cjwatson> And at the very least it means people have fewer things to think about.
[23:20] <xnox> cjwatson: i wonder if deb-src lines enabled, is a pre-requisite for a proper build-using: * stanzas support.
[23:20] <xnox> unless i understand build-using:* wrong.
[23:28] <cjwatson> xnox: I don't think so; you can get enough information for that from binary control fields
[23:29] <cjwatson> The usual Source: if present, else Package: dance


[12:49] <cjwatson> hjd: Regarding your question yesterday, thanks for your effort, but you can disregard the stack of haskell-* failures; I'm on top of that transition, but there are a number of layers involved.  It's likely to just be a waste of time to parachute into the middle of it.
[12:49] <cjwatson> hjd: I'm working through http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html; currently stalled on fixing haskell-quickcheck so that agda can build on powerpc, which I've fixed in Debian and will be able to sync to Ubuntu later today.
[12:50] <cjwatson> hjd: Basically this happens because every time a Haskell package changes its ABI you have to go around rebuilding everything on top of it, and there's a very deep graph.  This is usually best done in batches to avoid wasting too much builder time.
[12:51] <cjwatson> haskell-data-lens-template is quite far down the graph.
[12:52] <cjwatson> Though only a handful of layers away now.
[14:00] <hjd> cjwatson: Ok, I see. :) I wasn't aware the underlying issue was affecting the whole stack.
[14:01] <hjd> cjwatson: I'm just skimming the FTBFS from time to time looking for low-hanging fruit.
[14:01] <hjd> *page


[00:04] <tritoch> how can i find out why my mythtv-backend service is not starting?
[00:05] <tgm4883> tritoch, look at the mythbackend log
[00:06] <tgm4883> /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
[00:09] <tritoch> thank you, looking
[05:09] <Patrickdk> in my case, it's stupid upstart
[05:09] <Patrickdk> it starts mythbackend long before my ip's are configured
[05:09] <Patrickdk> so mythbackend fails
[06:05] <Memphis> hey, I've got a newly setup Mythbuntu oneiric machine here, the issue I am having is that my 1080P TV only gets detected as 720P (my previous build had the same issue initially, but it was easy to override with the Nvidia drivers/control panel). The new system is an LGA1155 G820, 4GB ram, 512MB Radeon 5450 (running the opensource 'radeon' driver I believe -)
[06:06] <Memphis> I have previously tried the proprietary driver, through the utility, but I couldn't find a way to get around the tearing issues it causes
[06:07] <Memphis> so my question currently is, how can I force a custom resolution for 1080P using the built in driver for my radeon 5450
[06:07] <Memphis> when I plug the machine into a 1080P computer monitor it has no issues running 1080P
[06:07] <Memphis> it's faulty EDID information from the TV I suspect
[20:01] <solars> hey, by mistake I deselected 'use android remote' on installation, can I somehow re-activate this on the installed version?
[20:17] <tgm4883> solars, open up mythbuntu-control-centre
[20:17] <tgm4883> the LIRC section should have that
[20:28] <solars> ah nice, thanks
[20:37] <solars> hm seems I don't have sound :(
[21:09] <Cueball> Hi all. Looking to setup some frontends using low end diskless machines. What are the minium requirements for and SD frontend?
[21:54] <Patrickdk> 1gig drive, 1ghz cpu, video card?
[21:55] <Patrickdk> probably need atleast 512megs ram, 1gig is happy
[21:56] <Patrickdk> personally I'm using a 2gig ram, no disk, dual core2 cpu, with ipxe iscsi boot
[21:57] <Patrickdk> oh, using a gt220 video card too
[21:57] <Patrickdk> but that does hdtv
[23:22] <Cueball> Patrickdk: So something smaller wouldn't handle being an SDTV frontend?
[23:26] <Patrickdk> heh? I thought I defined the specs pretty clearly
[23:27] <Patrickdk> some thing like 1gig ram, 1ghz cpu, and some kind of video card
[23:27] <Patrickdk> where for hd, I'm using 2gig ram, dual core2 cpu, and a gt220 video card
[23:35] <Cueball> Patrickdk: Sorry. I just thought that it wouldn't need something as high spec as that to be a front end.
[23:42] <Patrickdk> a 1ghz cpu?
[23:42]  * Patrickdk wonders how that is high spec
[23:43] <Patrickdk> if you go with a higher spec video card, and use it to decode, you can drop the cpu down more
[23:43] <Patrickdk> but is it even possible to get systems that slow?


[12:40] <mhz_cook> arkan0x: hey
[12:40] <arkan0x> mhz_cook, hi !
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. has anyone else come accross this? install edubuntu -> open synaptic -> click "remove" on cdrom -> click "add" -> ok on next option (main+restricted only) -> edit it. it now is "sections: universe main restricted"
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> I've had this happen on 2 boxes
[02:52] <ogra> whats the "edit it" part about ... what did you edit ?
[02:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra: you select a repository line to edit, then click edit, and the "edit repository" box that pops up has universe in the "sections" line
[02:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> security updates did the same thing, but updates didnt
[02:54] <ogra> thats dapper ?
[02:54] <ogra> if so, file a bug on synaptic
[02:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> um. Breezy i think
[02:55] <ogra> you might file a bug there as well if it doesnt exist yet ... but i doubt it will get fixed in breezy ...
[02:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
[03:00] <mhz> ogra: could you give me the short version or tell me if it is spectacular? http://ooowiki.de/Writer2MoinMoin
[03:01] <ogra> it creates moin source from writer docs
[03:01] <ogra> its a macro
[03:01] <mhz> yeah, that I know
[03:01] <ogra> and it can only handle pngs
[03:02] <mhz> but does it mention like "look here" or "excelent output"
[03:02] <mhz> or 99% effectivenes
[03:02] <ogra> nope
[03:02] <ogra> it just explains the basic usage
[03:03] <ogra> the four points in the second paragraph explain what doesnt work
[03:03] <mhz> okis
[03:04] <mhz> ogra: thx
[03:04] <ogra> np
[04:47] <sithi> mr. ogra please help me
[04:57] <sithi> can some body help me please
[04:58] <mhz> sithi: shoot your problem and we'll see
[04:59] <mhz> sithi: ?
[04:59] <sithi> i have ubuntu 5.10  with ltsp
[05:00] <mhz> ok
[05:00] <sithi> the thin client (diskless) is booting well
[05:00] <mhz> ok
[05:00] <sithi> i had assined the static ip to the client
[05:00] <sithi> i could very this at the time of booting also
[05:01] <sithi> but once i logged in to the gnome, for ifconfig command
[05:01] <sithi> it is giving me the server's ip address
[05:01] <sithi> where did i done the mistake
[05:02] <mhz> sithi: The only LTSP I have ever used is Edubuntu's. That means your LTSP config is not similar at all to my ltsp config because we used a very diff approach and structure
[05:03] <mhz> sithi: my only advice, and I am very sorry, is you visit #ltsp. They will help lot better than me
[05:03] <sithi> ok, thanks
[05:03] <mhz> sorry
[05:04] <mhz> sithi: ogra is sleeping now and I know he has tried normal LTSP before
[07:16] <punkass> hello all, just curious of the status of multimedia on the client machine with ltsp
[10:18] <tamoio> hello all
[10:57] <jsgotangco> ogra: after install it should be runnig already right (the server)
[10:57] <ogra> nope ...
[10:58] <ogra> see the install notes ;)
[10:58] <jsgotangco> gyahhh
[10:58] <ogra> especially the LTSPServerSetup
[10:59] <jsgotangco> we're sticking with this setup?
[10:59] <ogra> yup
[11:00] <ogra> for dapper at least
[11:00] <ogra> for dapper+1 we'll have a gui for ltsp :)
[11:00] <ogra> people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
[11:01] <jsgotangco> there's no /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[11:01] <ogra> oh ?
[11:02] <jsgotangco> it didnt install dhcp3-server or any dhcp client it seems
[11:02] <jsgotangco> i mean server
[11:02] <ogra> ouch
[11:03] <ogra> sure you did a default install ?
[11:03] <jsgotangco> yup
[11:03] <jsgotangco> it did a chroot
[11:03] <ogra> hmpf
[11:03] <ogra> that might be caused by the oversizedness ...
[11:04] <ogra> +damned
[11:04] <jsgotangco> ltsp-server is installed
[11:04] <jsgotangco> ok i'll install dhcp3 and see
[11:04] <ogra> look for ltsp-server-standalone
[11:05] <ogra> thats should be there as well
[11:05] <jsgotangco> its not installed
[11:05] <ogra> (and depends on dhcpd)
[11:05] <ogra> aha
[11:05] <jsgotangco> ltsp-server is though
[11:06] <jsgotangco> should i install it instead?
[11:08] <ogra> nope, i'll have to fix the CD ...
[11:08] <jsgotangco> ok at least you now
[11:08] <ogra> which is kind of tricky since i cant reach the datacenter
[11:08] <jsgotangco> s/now/know
[11:09] <ogra> yay, my connection is back they fixed frankfurt :)
[11:10] <jsgotangco> ok i guess we're cool now, i'm going to focus on the quickguide then
[11:11] <ogra> yup, thanks for all the help
[11:12] <jsgotangco> ogra: can you change the icons of ubuntu to edubuntu ? (not now)
[11:12] <jsgotangco> and System -> About Ubuntu to About Edubuntu
[11:12] <jsgotangco> ?
[11:13] <ogra> i dont understand the first question ... which icons ?
[11:13] <jsgotangco> menu bar uses ubuntu icon
[11:14] <ogra> not really an issue ... but if i have time left before art freeze i'll think about it ...
[11:14] <ogra> i'm not sure thats prepared to get exchanged by a foreign package ... might need heavy tweaking
[11:15] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[11:15] <jsgotangco> how about ubuntu-docs?
[11:18] <ogra> what shall i do with it ?
[11:18] <jsgotangco> replace with ours when its ready?
[11:19] <jsgotangco> but that might be asking too much
[11:19] <ogra> when its ready, yes
[11:20] <MotherLUG> Evening All :D
[11:20] <jsgotangco> hi
[11:23] <ogra> would also save plenty of space
[11:23] <ogra> but we dont have edubuntu-docs yet
[11:23] <ogra> hmm... amd64 is oversized by 13MB
[11:23] <ogra> thats hard to free up without dropping something essential
[11:24] <ogra> hmm ... i wonder how much harm it does to drop tuxpaint-stamps for amd64 for now ...
[11:24] <ogra> its 15MB on the CD
[11:25] <jsgotangco> the bitmaps?
[11:25] <ogra> tuxpaint-stamps-defaults ... no idea if this are bitmaps ...
[11:25] <MotherLUG> ogra, not the tux-paint stamps they are fabulous
[11:25] <jsgotangco> its probably the pictures of birds
[11:26] <jsgotangco> ogra: i'm pretty worried about the quickguide in our svn, it has images...
[11:26] <ogra> but likely ... by the size of it
[11:27] <ogra> MotherLUG, i need to free up 13MB on the amd64 CD to make it installable ... give me a guess what else to remove
[11:28] <ogra> removing the stamps would also remove tuxpaint ... its a hard dependency ...
[11:29] <jsgotangco> xaos is pretty small...
[11:30] <jsgotangco> it'll be strange to remove gimp
[11:30] <jsgotangco> and yet have gnu paint
[11:31] <ogra> nah
[11:31] <ogra> nothing is as big
[11:31] <jsgotangco> not to mention it'll trash the whole desktop
[11:31] <jsgotangco> kdeedu
[11:31] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:32] <ogra> libgl1-mesa-dri has exactly 13MB
[11:32] <ogra> sad that its essential
[11:34] <jsgotangco> how about the bluetooth stuff
[11:35] <jsgotangco> lol pretty small
[11:36] <ogra> in case you want to look yourself:
[11:36] <Yagisan> ogra: how many kernels are on the cd ?
[11:36] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/edubuntu-daily-20060217.1.log
[11:36] <ogra> 1
[11:37] <Yagisan> well, scratch that idea
[11:48] <MotherLUG> ogra, sorry was doing an interview
[11:49] <Yagisan> ogra: do we need gcc ?
[11:49] <ogra> Yagisan, how big ?
[11:50] <MotherLUG> ogra, my first pick to remove would be turtle
[11:50] <Yagisan> ogra: haven't really checked yet. just briefly scanning the list while trying to brush my kids teeth
[11:50] <ogra> err, sure we need gcc for people that need to compile modem drivers for example
[11:51] <ogra> MotherLUG, that wont gain us 13MB :)
[11:51] <Yagisan> ogra: um - edubuntu - should work out-of-the-box right ?
[11:51] <ogra> probably 130k :)
[11:51] <MotherLUG> ogra, yeah I know, I don't know much about the back end stuff
[11:51] <ogra> Yagisan, we ship modem driver sources for winmodems
[11:51] <Yagisan> oh
[11:52] <Yagisan> brb
[11:52] <MotherLUG> I have to pull down the latest version again, anf get onto the bug reporting. Heaps of things were crashing on me last week
[11:53] <ogra> yeah, last weeks isos were quite broken, i havent cared for the CDs for a while
[11:53] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[11:53] <jsgotangco> evolution :)
[11:54] <jsgotangco> eekkkk
[11:54] <jsgotangco> edubuntu-desktop
[12:04] <Yagisan> OOo - still not native ?
[12:06] <ogra> nop
[12:06] <ogra> i removed tuxpaint ....
[12:06] <ogra> (note thats only amd64)
[12:07] <Yagisan> that sucks. we could dump ia32libs* if it was
[12:08] <ogra> yup
[12:08] <ogra> but upstream doesnt move forward it seems ...
[12:08] <Yagisan> :(
[12:08] <ogra> and doko is to overloaded with gcc and all of python
[12:08] <Yagisan> I still can't copy and paste between OOo and native apps
[12:09] <ogra> yup
[12:13] <Yagisan> ogra: what was the last thing added before amd64 went oversize ?
[12:18] <ogra> nothing
[12:18] <ogra> the packages grew
[12:22] <MotherLUG> ogra, can I still pull tux-paint from the repositories?
[12:23] <ogra> MotherLUG, sure
[12:23] <ogra> its just not installed by default on amd64 installs ...
[12:24] <MotherLUG> ogra, wonderful, I must say my lids and I love it, and I have 64
[12:24] <MotherLUG> lids= kids
[12:24] <ogra> i'll do my best to re-add it ... but currently its the best option to unbreak flight4
[12:25] <MotherLUG> as long as I can still pull it and it works, I'm happy
[12:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: let's pull out tuxpaint for now
[12:26] <ogra> i'd rather have it on the CD and wil look for realease which other options we have ...
[12:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:27] <jsgotangco> we need more bling!
[12:28] <ogra> but not with our name ... i'm fine with a e17 distro ...
[12:28] <ogra> but they should grab a name that doesnt clash
[12:28] <jsgotangco> true
[12:28] <ogra> it nearly makes me forget the CoC ...
[12:29] <jsgotangco> what the hell
[12:29] <jsgotangco> The [WWW]  Documentation Team is organising documentation for Ebuntu, and for more please contact [WWW]  Manish Chakravarty
[12:29] <ogra> argh !!!
[12:30] <Yagisan> isn't "Ebuntu" a checkinstall job
[12:30] <jsgotangco> GRRRRRR
[12:30] <Yagisan> ?
[12:30] <ogra> likely ...
[12:31] <jsgotangco> it is
[12:32] <jsgotangco> ogra: he's in the gnome lp team
[12:33] <Yagisan> excellent - so it only runs on i386 - can't be maintained properly - most likely breaks /usr/local - and has a bad name choice. Marvelous.
[12:34] <jsgotangco> im going to dinner first
[12:34] <Seveas> ogra, the original name was even worse: Enubuntu
[12:35] <jsgotangco> im going think about this first
[12:36] <Yagisan> ;)
[12:36] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <MotherLUG> Good Night All :D
[02:40] <pips1> highvoltage, hi
[02:40] <highvoltage> hi pips1
[02:40] <pips1> I am making some progress with the demo site... :-)
[02:40] <highvoltage> kewl. is it somewhere accessable yet?
[02:41] <pips1> I'll send you an email ... I'd rather not have everybody pound on the test site yet :-)
[02:51] <highvoltage> pips1: thanks, sorry, bit distracted here
[03:10] <pips1> highvoltage, no prob
[04:09] <pips1> ogra, hi
[04:10] <pips1> ogra, here on irc, you often are asked questions... what is the one piece of documentation that you need to point out the most often ? is it e.g. the thinClientHowto ?
[04:11] <ogra> nope
[04:11] <pips1> ?
[04:11] <ogra> i dont point the thin client howto here at all
[04:11] <pips1> ah
[04:11] <ogra> since it doesnt apply to edubuntu
[04:12] <ogra> see topic :)
[04:12] <pips1> :-)
[04:12] <ogra> the install notes are the most important doc
[04:12] <pips1> ok, I see, thanks
[04:12] <ogra> second most is yagisans etherboot/PXE floppy creation doc
[04:13] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu
[04:13] <ogra> err
[04:13] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
[04:13] <ogra> that one
[04:13] <pips1> cheers!
[04:17] <pips1> never mind
[04:18] <ogra> pips1, because apart from editing the dhcpd.conf everything is done by the installer in edubuntu
[04:18] <ogra> the howto is for ubuntu ...
[04:18] <ogra> where you have to do all these steps manually
[04:20] <pips1> ok, makes sense now
[04:22] <pips1> that howto is definitely geared towards experienced sysadmins, I'd say, judging from the amount of acronyms and geek slang :-)
[04:22] <ogra> yup
[04:22] <ogra> sadly ...
[04:22] <ogra> it was a very easy document even my mother would have understood when mdz created it+
[04:23] <ogra> but it has grown several monster heads :(
[04:23] <pips1> hehe
[05:34] <vhgd> hello. i have a question. how do i change the screen resolution of the ltsp login screen. one of my thin client monitor crashed because the resolution (1600x1200) was to high.
[07:16] <ogra> jsgotangco, will still take a while ... i just discovered a bug that makes a rebuild for ubuntu and all drivatives necessary
[07:17] <ogra> with new testing accordingly
[07:17] <ogra> seems Kamion made a tapo or something in the cd build script
[07:17] <ogra> *typo
[07:17] <jsgotangco> argghh
[07:17] <jsgotangco> that's why its taking so long???
[07:18] <ogra> at least for me currently rsync doesnt work either, so i cant get the new builds
[07:18] <ogra> but its related to ltsp-server-standalone being not installed and /etc/ltsp missing
[07:19] <ogra> so in fact you discovered it first :)
[07:20] <jsgotangco> ahh
[07:20] <jsgotangco> i'll just do the drafts then
[07:20] <jsgotangco> i;ve yet to update for ubuntu itself too
[07:20] <jsgotangco> but i'll make the most obvious changes
[07:20] <jsgotangco> its already 2:30am anyways
[07:27] <jsgotangco> good night
[07:28] <ogra> night
[09:33] <chms> is ltsp (and related things - dhcp, tftp etc) installed with the server install of edubuntu?
[09:35] <ogra> nope
[09:35] <chms> rats :) thanks
[09:38] <ogra> you need a desktop on the server to use the ssh tunnel ... else it wont make sense
[09:38] <ogra> so the edubuntu default install is what you want ...
[09:38] <ogra> the so called server install is in fact a minimal install ...
[09:38] <ogra> see the install notes from the topic
[09:39] <chms> I am learning that. I had an email tetate over that issue :)
[09:39] <chms> ok
[09:39] <chms> I use ltsp, and thought it would save a step
[09:41] <ogra> note that we use the new muecow implementation of ltsp ... it doesnt use xdmcp forwarding anymore ...
[09:41] <chms> I'll look into that. I use it, I wouldnt say I was an 'expert'. Thanks
[09:45] <chms> do you find using a 'heavy' GUI like KDE with ltsp causes performance issues? (I'm looking at Xfce for that reason)
[09:48] <ogra> nope, it only eats memory on the server ... no performance issues
[09:48] <chms> good to know. perhaps I wont need Xfce then.
[11:00] <bob_> hey again ogra...
[11:02] <bob_> i got a new monitor in, its kinda booting and im getting 'screens found, but none have a usable configuation. driver can't support depth 24'
[11:03] <ogra> ah ...
[11:03] <bob_> and 'xauth: error in unlocking authority file /root/.Xauthority'
[11:03] <ogra> then you *need* dapper ... breezy doesnt support setting 16bit in ltsp
[11:03] <bob_> it is dapper...
[11:04] <ogra> create a /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf file
[11:04] <ogra> add the following line:
[11:05] <bob_> is there any way to view all the messages you got at startup? there was another kinda error i thought might be itneresting but i cant remebre the detials and it goes past prety quick
[11:05] <ogra> [default]   X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
[11:06] <ogra> that should set the clients to 16bit by default
[11:06] <bob_> k
[11:07] <bob_> right it kinda goes 'trying to load pxelinux' and tries a whole bunch before going to default
[11:07] <bob_> is that ok?
[11:08] <ogra> looks like a triangle on the screen ?
[11:08] <bob_> yeah
[11:08] <ogra> thats the normal PXE protocol
[11:08] <bob_> ok, cool
[11:09] <ogra> i just found a heavy bug in ltsp ... that might be your problem ...
[11:09] <bob_> oh yeah? 8)
[11:09] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006513.html
[11:10] <ogra> that prevented ldm from being installed ... without ldm X wont start ...
[11:11] <bob_> ahh ok....
[11:11] <bob_> is that coz i installed from a CD? seems like it shouldnt matter...
[11:11] <ogra> you can startx manually ... but you dont have a login manager
[11:12] <ogra> if there is any package available that provides x-display-manager, it breaks :)
[11:12] <bob_> haha ok!
[11:12] <ogra> gdm or kdm or wdm ...
[11:12] <bob_> damn that x-display-manager
[11:13] <ogra> heh, yes ...
[11:13] <ogra> debian added it ..
[11:13] <bob_> anything i can do about it?
[11:13] <ogra> and i missed to see that it would break when i merged their patches
[11:13] <bob_> good to know its notjust me being stupid ;)
[11:13] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install ldm
[11:14] <ogra> if that works ... you have a working client ...
[11:14] <bob_> :D yay!
[11:14] <ogra> but with a lot of unused gnome stuff in it :)
[11:14] <bob_> 'already the newest version'
[11:14] <bob_> boo
[11:15] <ogra> oh, so that was pulled in already ... lucky you :)
[11:15] <bob_> so its just thsi rouge dhcp server thats the problem now then
[11:15] <bob_> arghhhh
[11:15] <ogra> just try the lts.conf
[11:15] <ogra> nope, its your graphics card that only supports 16bit ...
[11:15] <bob_> its funny, sometimes i get a kernel panic and sometimes it just frezes at 'loading hardware drivers'
[11:16] <bob_> no i mean that is still an issue...
[11:16] <bob_> is there any way to flush the dhcp and ltsp server cache? i think turning this computer off and on repeatedly is confusing it
[11:17] <ogra> nope
[11:17] <ogra> no need to
[11:17] <bob_> ok
[11:17] <ogra> the cache is bound to the hardware address of your card ... you should get always the same ip for the client
[11:18] <bob_> ah ok
[11:19] <bob_> is there any other reason it'd stop at 'loading hardware drivers'?
[11:20] <ogra> you can remove the word splash from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default then you see more ...
[11:20] <ogra> it will omit the bootsplash
[11:22] <bob_> ok
[11:22] <bob_> its still having problems even when i disconnect the othre dhcp server
[11:22] <mezzapazza> is there some documentation on setting up ltspfs on ubuntu?
[11:22] <ogra> nope, use the one from ltsp.org
[11:23] <mezzapazza> if i only knew what reffered redhat init scripts usually do :)
[11:24] <ogra> ltspfs and ltspfsd are packaged, but you will need to set up the scripts from ltsp.org manually ...
[11:24] <mezzapazza> what about dapper init scripts?
[11:24] <ogra> ?
[11:25] <ogra> for ltspfs ?
[11:25] <mezzapazza> yep
[11:25] <bob_> argh, 'depth 16 is not supported through this adapter'
[11:25] <ogra> thats evil ... but it doesnt support 24 either ?
[11:25] <mezzapazza> i found it packaged in dapper, so i thought there are scripts i could check too
[11:26] <bob_> its a prety good monitor
[11:26] <bob_> what was the command to check?
[11:26] <bob_> what the monitor can do i mean
[11:27] <ogra> mezzapazza, sorry, no... i packaged it because we wanted to investigate it for inclusion, but all the local device support was deferred to dapper+1, so there is no integration work been done
[11:28] <mezzapazza> ogra ok tnx
[11:29] <ogra> mezzapazza, be sure it will be my main target in dapper+1 together with a real good sound implementation based on gstreamer ...
[11:30] <mezzapazza> ogra looking forward... i'm in a hurry, so i'll have to figure it out myself..
[11:30] <mezzapazza> BTW vim/nvi was missing in dapper release i downloaded last week
[11:30] <ogra> it should work as outlined on the ltsp.org wiki ... but you'll need to add it to the startup scripts yourself, sorry
[11:31] <ogra> amd64 ?
[11:31] <mezzapazza> yes
[11:31] <ogra> yup, might be, the CD was oversized for some days ...
[11:31] <ogra> should be fixed since today
[11:32] <ogra> bob_, its not the monitor ... its the graphics card that cant do 16bit ...
[11:32] <ogra> must be a very old model  ....
[11:32] <ogra> try if it works if you set the value from 16 to 8
[11:33] <ogra> didnt you say mach64 or something ? thats one of the oldest atis around ...
[11:33] <bob_> ah ok
[11:33] <bob_> yeah
[11:33] <bob_> ok
[11:35] <bob_> be surprised if it only supports 8 bit though?
[11:35] <ogra> yes, a bit ...
[11:35] <ogra> it should be able to do 16 ...
[11:35] <ogra> but the error message indicates differently
[11:36] <bob_> k
[11:37] <ogra> k ?
[11:37] <bob_> ok, sorry :)
[11:37] <ogra> nah, i meant k like in its ok, i see X ?
[11:45] <bob___> whoops lost connection, have you got ay idea why im still getting problems even with the other dhcp server unplugged? might i just need a better network switch?
[11:45] <ogra> bob___, not yet ...
[11:45] <ogra> might be a dapper bug
[11:46] <bob___> k
[11:46] <ogra> i'm currently preparing flight 4 and discover a lot of weird things that didnt show up yet
[11:46] <bob___> is there anything i can do with regard to bug reports?
[11:46] <mezzapazza> what would be redhat's rc.localdev on debian?
[11:48] <ogra> bob___, file them :) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+bugs assign them to me and the ltsp package ...
[11:49] <ogra> mezzapazza, for the client side i'd just add it to the ltsp-client initscript ...
[11:49] <bob___> ok :) i dont always know whats gone wrong though :)
[11:49] <bob___> i guess i can just describe...
[11:49] <bob___> i mean, i dont know if its me or a bug...
[11:53] <bob___> wow, i have a black x...
[11:54] <ogra> yes, just describe is a good start
[11:54] <ogra> :)
[11:54] <bob___> a black x and nothing else. i guess this is a start?
[11:55] <ogra> bob___, my job as developer is to ask you the right questions in the bug to find out whats wrong and if it is a bug :)
[11:55] <ogra> doesnt look like ldm is working, weird
[11:55] <bob___> haha thats good, glad i can be of some help :p
[11:58] <bob___> any ideas? anything i can try rebulding, or something?
[11:59] <ogra> would be an option ..
[12:00] <ogra> +just dont forget to create the lts.conf
[12:00] <ogra> (or make a backup you can copy in place later)
[12:01] <bob___> whats the command?
[12:02] <ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client
[12:02] <bob___> hmm ive done that one
[12:02] <bob___> anything else it could be?
[12:02] <ogra> you need to wipe the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir first
[12:03] <bob___> ive done that a couple of times already tho
[12:03] <bob___> hmmm
[12:03] <bob___> no way its gonna get corrupted really is there?


[02:06] <paolob> Hi guys! How many clients does a edubuntu server admit? Is 40 too much?
[02:07] <ajmitch_> I'd say it'd depend a lot on the ram the server has
[02:08] <paolob> ajmitch_: the problem I have is that after some 5/6 clients connections, the other clients say "no IP address", and /var/log/syslog says: "dhcpd: no free lease". What is the reason?
[02:10] <ajmitch_> your range that you're allocating for dhcp is quite small?
[02:11] <paolob> ajmitch_: where is it set?
[02:13] <ajmitch_> in /etc/dhcpd/dhcpd.conf or similar
[02:14] <ajmitch_> might be /etc/dhcpd.conf
[02:18] <paolob> ajmitch_: ok, tomorrow I'm going to see it! thank you!
[02:26] <ogra>  /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[02:26] <ogra> dont touch /etc/dhcpd.conf
[02:56] <ajmitch_> ogra: ok, thanks for corrections ;)
[03:58] <chuck_> sudo question - since edubuntu does not set up a root account how can I sudo without a root password?
[04:01] <ajmitch_> sudo uses the users password
[04:04] <chuck_> I tryed my password did not work
[04:05] <chuck_> should the prompt be a $ or a # for superuser?
[04:09] <chuck_> brain fart - you are correct it did work
[06:32] <mhz> hi
[12:28] <Viktor4u> God morning to the edubuntu room
[12:30] <highvoltage> hi there Viktor4u
[01:59] <juliux> ogra, we will have an beamer at our booth in essen, so if you want you can make a pr
[02:00] <juliux> ogra, presentation about edubuntu and we will show it the whole time on the beamer
[02:00] <ogra> s/beamer/projector/ ;)
[02:01] <ogra> i'll need a laptop with external vga, mine doesnt work (widescreen+nv driver)
[02:01] <juliux> ogra, we can use the udms for that
[02:02] <ogra> udms ?
[02:02] <juliux> ogra, the server we will have there
[02:02] <ogra> ok
[02:02] <juliux> ogra, udms == ubuntu deutschland messe server
[02:03] <ogra> ah
[02:03] <ogra> :)
[02:04] <juliux> ogra, tfts we will also have there
[02:04] <juliux> ogra, the tfts and the projectors we get from lwsystems
[02:06] <ogra> fine
[02:07] <juliux> ogra, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/138-Gentoo-Meets-Ubuntu-Ubuntu-Meets-Gentoo.html will you also be there?
[02:07] <ogra> juliux, most liekly ...
[02:08] <juliux> ogra, cool
[02:08] <ogra> We are planing a dinner and what will happen after the dinner ?????
[02:08] <ogra> so we'll have two dinners ?
[02:08] <juliux> ogra, we will drinkt beer, very much beer
[02:09] <juliux> -t
[02:09] <ogra> ah, i read that instead of what first
[02:09] <juliux> ogra, \sh wants to drink with us
[02:10] <ogra> yup
[02:11] <ogra> \shalways wants to drink :)
[02:11] <juliux> hehe
[02:11] <juliux> every picture from \sh is with a beer in a hand
[02:23] <juliux> hi Yagisan
[02:24] <Yagisan> G'day juliux
[02:27] <juliux> Yagisan, i also want to have so much pc
[02:28] <Yagisan> juliux: well, they are a p2 233Mhz, p2 300Mhz, K6/2 333Mhz, Duron 850Mhz, and Athlon64 2Ghz
[02:29] <Yagisan> juliux: not exactly powerful boxes, but good enough for my ltsp setup
[02:29] <juliux> Yagisan, i have here "only" a pentium M 740, athlon xp 2400+ and one p3 500mhz but in a broken notebook
[02:31] <Yagisan> juliux: I don't throw my pc's, I keep repairing them until they die of overheating
[02:32] <Yagisan> juliux: I've had some of those pc's since around 1995
[02:32] <Yagisan> juliux: Although a few cpu's died and needed replacements from ebay
[02:32] <juliux> Yagisan, but i will try to get a room at the university where we can build a testnetwork
[02:33] <juliux> Yagisan, at the momten i try to get an old sparc from the university so i can test ubuntu/edubuntu at sparc!
[02:34] <ogra> heh, you'll have to hack a lot first ... ltsp doesnt support sparc at all
[02:34] <Yagisan> juliux: I'm trying to get powerpc box, I'd love a sparc too.
[02:34] <juliux> ogra, but normal ubuntu
[02:34] <ogra> but Yagisan will be able to help, he already did the multiarch patch for us
[02:35] <juliux> ogra, at first i need the room and the computers
[02:35] <ogra> old sparcs are cheap, arent they ?
[02:35] <juliux> ogra, but old sparcs have no cdrom
[02:35] <ogra> what for ? if you run ltsp
[02:35] <juliux> ogra, edubunntu on server!
[02:35] <Yagisan> juliux: does it netboot ?
[02:35] <juliux> Yagisan, i have never seen a spar yet
[02:36] <juliux> Yagisan, but i want so play with a sparc
[02:36] <juliux> ogra, what i want is that there is a room where students could play with a network
[02:36] <ogra> juliux, http://librarian.launchpad.net/1181648/anysystem_1871_8487500_hacker.png
[02:36] <ogra> rthats a nice sparc :)
[02:36] <Yagisan> sparc - that is "vintage" computers on ebay right ?
[02:37] <ogra> yup
[02:37] <ogra> most of them at least ... indeed you can buy new ones for $100000 if you like ;)
[02:38] <juliux> ogra, no student has the location to build up a network, so i thin would be great if there is a room where you have a network and server to play with
[02:38] <Yagisan> ogra: If It costs more the $50au I'm not getting one soon
[02:38] <juliux> ogra, and old hardware is enough at the university
[02:38] <ogra> i think you can get sparc I or II for $50
[02:39] <ogra> (US though)
[02:40] <Yagisan> I only see a microsparc on ebay.com.au ATM
[02:52] <ogra> Yagisan, http://cgi.ebay.de/SGI-Origin3200-Origin-3000-Silicon-Graphics-Server_W0QQitemZ5834023117QQcategoryZ8074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:52] <ogra> thats the right thing for home :)
[02:54] <Yagisan> ogra: is that 25 euros or 2500 euros ? And it would look sweet next to my desk
[02:55] <ogra> thats 25 but still 8 days to go
[02:55] <ogra> i guess you can buy it around 1000 in the end
[02:55] <ogra> <-- big SGI fan
[02:56] <Yagisan> the shipping to Aus would kill me
[02:58] <mhz> hi
[02:59] <Yagisan> G'day mhz
[02:59] <mhz> Yagisan: hi , Mr. gifted
[02:59] <Yagisan> ogra: can we get Debian/Ubuntu on a cray ?
[03:00] <ogra> no idea, but its MIPS based ...
[03:00] <ogra> so it might work
[03:00] <ogra> Yagisan, not with your changes yet... they are blocked in my branch by ldm fixes
[03:01] <Yagisan> so, how useful would a cray be as an edubuntu server ?
[03:02] <ogra> lol
[03:02] <mhz> ogra: remember any key word for your diagrams on network layout (client-server)?
[03:02] <ogra> i doubt you can find any of them for sale
[03:02] <ogra> mhz, ?
[03:02] <mhz> ogra: the ones you wikied about 2 months ago, very cool drwaings
[03:02] <ogra> ah
[03:02] <ogra> EdubuntuWiring
[03:02] <mhz> okidoki
[03:03] <mhz> ogra: do you think that name is appropriate?
[03:03] <ogra> Yagisan, crays are out of business way to long ... they are at a stage where the prices already rise again
[03:04] <ogra> mhz, yup
[03:04] <mhz> ogra: how about EdubuntuNetworkPictures or EdubuntuNetworkLayout?
[03:04] <ogra> thats why i choose it
[03:04] <Yagisan> the duron 850 just needs a power supply and then I can tinker with that
[03:04] <Yagisan> mhz: wiring is correct network terminology
[03:04] <mhz> EdubuntuNetworkWiring?
[03:04] <ogra> EdubuntuLtspWiring probably
[03:04] <Yagisan> ogra: but the leather cover is so nice :)
[03:05] <mhz> ogra: yup!
[03:05] <ogra> Yagisan, the one of crays ?
[03:05] <mhz> ogra: thx. I'll add Ltsp part
[03:05] <ogra> but keep the old page, its liked from some places afaik
[03:05] <ogra> s/page/mane/
[03:05] <Yagisan> ogra: yep - some of the crays had a nice leather cover
[03:06] <ogra> *name
[03:06] <ogra> yup... like a sofa
[03:07] <mhz> ogra: sure, I'll just place #redirect from your page to EdubuntuLtspWiring
[03:07] <Yagisan> IIRC there is a cray in "Sneakers"
[03:07] <ogra> yup
[03:07] <mhz> so, everyone should get notified and also redirected
[03:14] <juliux> mhz, hi
[03:14] <juliux> mhz, who far are the cd/dvd labels?
[03:15] <juliux> s/who/how
[03:15] <mhz> juliux: hi. I am terribly sorry, man
[03:15] <juliux> mhz, ok
[03:15] <juliux> mhz, no problem
[03:15] <mhz> juliux: yesterday i forgot a very important meeting and I run
[03:15] <mhz> when I got here, I saw a note from Pablo saying he'll do it tiday :(
[03:15] <mhz> today
[03:16] <mhz> but so far he hasn't shoed up :(
[03:16] <mhz> showed
[03:16] <mhz> juliux: it is a problem
[03:16] <mhz> because I said you were gonna have it yesterday at 19:00
[03:16] <mhz> and so I suppose you made arrangamente based on that shcedule
[03:18] <juliux> mhz, i need them until the first of december
[03:18] <juliux> mhz, so there is some time
[03:18] <mhz> duh!
[03:18] <juliux> left
[03:18] <mhz> so you don't want me to kick his butt?
[03:19] <juliux> mhz,  i dont't want to kick anybody how make some work in his freetime
[03:20] <mhz> hehhe
[03:21] <juliux> mhz, but is woudl be greate if i/we have it next week
[03:21] <Yagisan> k, no kicking, but is slapping ok ?
[03:21] <juliux> Yagisan, no
[03:21] <mhz> free time is ok. But commitments are comitments. Now, of course it is a relief that you do not need them urgently, but what if you had needed them urgently?
[03:21] <Yagisan> :-P
[03:21] <mhz> :D
[03:21] <mhz> pouring lemon juice on his eyes, then?
[03:22] <mhz> any kind of suffering allowed?
[03:22] <Yagisan> vinegar ?
[03:22] <mhz> hehehehe
[03:22] <juliux> so now i am going to my salsa lesson
[03:22] <juliux> cu later
[03:22] <mhz> juliux dances slasa!
[03:22] <mhz> juliux dances salsa!
[03:22] <Yagisan> Running off with the loo paper
[03:22] <mhz> juliux dances salsa!
[03:22] <Yagisan> ?
[03:22] <mhz> juliux dances salsa!
[03:22] <Yagisan> mhz: EKBD ?
[03:22] <juliux> mhz, where is your problem?
[03:22] <mhz> c ya, juliux
[03:23] <mhz> no problem at all, I was singing and old song part
[03:23] <mhz> "everybody salsa!"
[03:23] <mhz> "everybody salsa!"
[03:23] <Yagisan> juliux: enjoy your dance lesson
[03:23] <mhz> and it does feel wired a german geek dancing salsa :)
[03:23] <mhz> unless he were from latinamerica
[03:24] <mhz> I mean, I am surprised, that;s all
[03:24] <mhz> good for you
[03:24] <mhz> move your body
[03:24] <mhz> Yagisan: hehehe
[03:24] <Yagisan> salsa - isn't that a dip for my corn chips :)
[03:24] <mhz> lol
[03:24] <Yagisan> lets see, tomatoes
[03:25] <Yagisan> capsicum
[03:25] <Yagisan> what else ?
[03:25] <mhz> :)
[03:25] <mhz> soya?
[03:25] <mhz> chocolate?
[03:25] <mhz> vanilla?
[03:25] <Yagisan> nah - some chilli pepers
[03:25] <mhz> red hot?
[03:26] <Yagisan> well I can *drink* tabasco sauce, so yep
[03:30] <mhz> Yagisan: we dont have chilli pepers in Chile, unless you are talking about 'aji' (aka 'chile', in Mexico).  I've been preparing to switch to gmane, so I'm not on all the mailing lists anymore
[03:52] <mhz> okis
[03:53] <mhz> Have you seen/read about EdubuntuStudyPackages?
[03:55] <Yagisan> mhz: nope
[03:55] <mhz> okis
[03:56] <Yagisan> mhz: study packages may be harder then you think, because of different curriculum's in different states/countries
[03:57] <mhz> hence we could define them like edu-study-cl-math.deb
[04:01] <Yagisan> mhz: I have noticed from personal experience that eg New South Wales, and Queensland, both do the same subject
[04:01] <Yagisan> mhz: but focus on different aspects
[04:03] <mhz> oh
[04:03] <mhz> then, see? we need that input and opinions so we can define how to do it
[04:03] <mhz> the idea is good. How to do it... not clear
[04:04] <Yagisan> mhz: I was a student in both states - It was not pleasant transferring mid year for the year 10 exams!
[04:06] <mhz> hehehe
[04:06] <mhz> who would
[05:03] <Yagisan> night all
[05:03] <ogra> ciao Yagisan
[05:07] <mhz> Yagisan: nite
[05:07] <mhz> ogra: do you have Jeff (jdub) email?
[05:08] <ogra><EMAIL_ADDRESS>should work
[05:14] <mhz> okis
[05:15] <mhz> ogra: so, when JaneW asked "who will own it" (regarding StudyPackages), did she mean who will be held responsible for its development? If so, does that mean I am? if so, what are my responsibilities?
[05:16] <ogra> make sure its ready in time poke people to work on it, or di it yourself etc ...
[05:18] <mhz> can you please re-prhase that?
[05:19] <ogra> you are the "manager" of the task and are responsible for having it ready in the estimated timeframe
[05:19] <ogra> (if you own it)
[05:20] <ogra> i for example "own" edubuntus technical part ...
[05:24] <mhz> ogra: i have a couple of questions, will you be arounf in 30 mins? (family needs)
[05:24] <ogra> mhz, probably
[05:24] <mhz> thx
[06:11] <juliux> re
[06:12] <juliux> mhz, we have now the printer so we can start testing
[06:13] <highvolt1ge> ogra: hi there. what's your people.ubuntu address again? or more specifically, where can i get teachertool?
[06:13] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/
[06:14] <highvolt1ge> thanks
[06:14] <ogra> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ if you are eager :)
[06:35] <highvoltage> ogra: do you know why ubuntu 5.10 has a filesize limit of 2GB?
[06:35] <ogra> has it ?
[06:35] <ogra> thats news to me
[06:36] <highvoltage> if i tar a big bunch of stuff to an ext3 or reiserfs volumt over smb i get a message "File size limit exceeded"
[06:37] <ogra> hmm, probably a smb restriction you can adjust
[06:37] <ogra> i have 5GB DVD isos here ...
[06:37] <highvoltage> it's strange, i remember making big tarbals in hoary all the time. this is the first time i did it with breezy, and it just doesn't want to go big.
[06:37] <highvoltage> weird.
[06:37] <ogra> does it work locally ?
[06:38] <ogra> i dont use smb anywhere
[06:39] <ogra> oh, it might be necessary that you use cifs and not smb.. i heard something about smb being obsolete iirc
[06:44] <juliux> mhz, do you have the edubuntu cd label as an jpg or png ?
[06:52] <highvoltage> ogra: i think you're right. i just dd'd a 3GB file from /dev/zero and it worked fine
[06:53] <ogra> juliux, just export it from inkscape
[06:53] <ogra> and dont do it below 300dpi resolution, else it'll look odd ...
[06:53] <juliux> ogra, i have found a png but not the svg
[06:53] <ogra> the svg should be on the wiki
[06:54] <juliux> ogra, the link is broken
[06:54] <ogra> oh
[06:54] <juliux> i can only download the pngs
[08:10] <lucasvo> hi there
[08:11] <lucasvo> anybody looked at gcompris? it is quite fun :D
[08:12] <blue-frog> lucasvo, hi, did u get what i wrote u about user login and clients few days ago?
[08:12] <lucasvo> blue-frog: no
[08:13] <blue-frog> are u still looking to know how to know what user is logged on what client?
[08:13] <lucasvo> blue-frog: ogra already began to write an application, I wanted to
[08:13] <lucasvo> blue-frog: it is ok
[08:36] <mhz> re
[08:36] <mhz> lucasvo: I have tried gcompris
[08:40] <juliux> mhz, hi
[08:40] <juliux> mhz, i have now a printer
[08:40] <mhz> juliux: cool
[08:40] <mhz> juliux: Pablo still "missing"
[08:41] <mhz> iirc, Pablo had exams today at university
[08:41] <juliux> ok
[08:42] <mhz> juliux: regarding the last svg versions, indeed they are in the "older" wiki page version (the page name was EdubuntuCdCoverAndSlip, iirc)
[08:43] <mhz> juliux: and as you well pointed, the name cover was not accurate, I changed it for 'lable' but have not moved svg's there as they are being changed
[08:44] <juliux> mhz, ok
[08:44] <juliux> mhz, i will play here with the png
[08:45] <mhz> ogra: re 'owning'... so, you say I have soem responsibilities regardng 'time frames'. Which time frame? Should I start a new group in Launchpad?
[08:45] <mhz> soem = some
[09:18] <lucasvo> mhz: it is quite good for small children
[09:20] <mhz> indeed
[09:20] <mhz> there are more options as well
[09:20] <Phoul> I use ubuntu but whats edubuntu?
[09:21] <mhz> lucasvo: Childsplay is almost forgoten but it has some interesting stuff too
[09:21] <mhz> Phoul: edubuntu = ubuntu + LTSP envoronment + applications for education
[09:21] <Phoul> ?...
[09:21] <mhz> environment
[09:21] <Phoul> Uhh
[09:22] <Phoul> Whats the diffrence then?
[09:22] <Phoul> Like school stuff?
[09:22] <bdoin> lucasvo: what is quite good for small children ?
[09:22] <mhz> Edubuntu is targeted to help teachers and student by providing IT tools for the learning processes
[09:22] <lucasvo> bdoin: gcompris
[09:23] <Phoul> mmmmm im learning ubuntu should i get it?
[09:23] <lucasvo> Phoul: it is almost the same as ubuntu
[09:23] <mhz> not necesarily, unless needed.
[09:23] <mhz> Phoul: take a look at..
[09:23] <Phoul> Why would you need it tho?...
[09:23] <mhz> gimme a sec
[09:23] <Phoul> k
[09:24] <lucasvo> Phoul: but it provides configuration for terminal-server(ltsp) and some preinstalled educational software
[09:24] <bdoin> lucasvo: thanks, I am the author ;)
[09:24] <mhz> Phoul: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList
[09:24] <lucasvo> bdoin: ah
[09:24] <lucasvo> bdoin: it crashed already once :(
[09:24] <mhz> Phoul: all that sw can also be installed by you, manually
[09:24] <Phoul> all that sw?
[09:24] <lucasvo> bdoin: but I can't reproduce it
[09:24] <bdoin> lucasvo: bugs are mine :/
[09:25] <Phoul> Whats sw
[09:25] <bdoin> do you use it at school ?
[09:25] <lucasvo> bdoin: not anymore :D
[09:25] <mhz> Phoul: and if you ever need LTSP environment (to recycle PC's or because you have a computer lab), then you can also add that to your current Ubuntu installation
[09:25] <mhz> Phoul: software
[09:25] <lucasvo> bdoin: no, was just looking for software for education
[09:25] <lucasvo> http://www.gnomefiles.org/subcategory.php?sub_cat_id=49
[09:25] <Phoul> Well i was wrong...
[09:26] <Phoul> Because i thought it was a step to learning ubuntu better like advanced
[09:26] <Phoul> I guess it would be a step backwards...
[09:26] <mhz> Phoul: many teachers prefer to have an 'out of the box' educational IT environement.. Edubuntu is what they want
[09:26] <blue-frog> bdoin, haven't had time to check bugs sry, are u aware of a bug(?) in geography where moving the cursor above europe stops all sounds?
[09:26] <lucasvo> Phoul: it is no step, it has just some installed apps you don't need
[09:26] <Phoul> mhz im not a teacher im 14 lol
[09:26] <mhz> Phoul: what you need to learn about ubuntu?
[09:27] <mhz> Phoul: hhehehe, no problem
[09:27] <Phoul> I wanna learn about it like i got it 2 days ago and i came over from suse/fc4
[09:27] <mhz> Phoul: LTSP "protocol" is good for recycling computers at home or even for CyberCafes
[09:28] <Phoul> mhz why would i recycle a computor like do you mean totaly wipe it?
[09:28] <mhz> Phoul: Ubuntu is a linux distro, yes. The target is to provide almost "piece of cake" interaction
[09:28] <Phoul> I know its a linux distro lol
[09:29] <mhz> Phoul: there is no need to throw away a 1998 PC
[09:29] <Phoul> But i just wanna learn about linux a bit more and ubuntu because it seems like a great system just im not used to .debs and no rpms
[09:29] <Phoul> :P
[09:29] <mhz> many OSes force you to upgrades
[09:29] <bdoin> blue-frog: yep, it's fixed.
[09:30] <bdoin> blue-frog: should be fixed in 7.1.1
[09:30] <mhz> Phoul: for the software admin, dont worry. Use Synaptics and your are ok
[09:30] <Phoul> Good lol :P
[09:30] <Phoul> Ummm so whats sup ups about ubuntu
[09:30] <Phoul> I have read very littl
[09:30] <Phoul> e
[09:30] <Phoul> Like why would people call it better then say suse or fc4 or even debian
[09:31] <mhz> personal opinions are just personal. :) EVeryone will tell you diff 'truths'
[09:31] <Phoul> well whats yours?
[09:32] <mhz> I like Ubuntu because it is based on Debian. Then, I also like it because just like debian, it is well supported and because I can "evangelise" using merchandising products they send you home so you can show ubuntu to your firends
[09:33] <Phoul> :)
[09:33] <Phoul> I just bought the trucker hat and sweater :P
[09:33] <mhz> Also, I like Ubuntu because there are lots to do in the community
[09:33] <mhz> Phoul: wow! congrats! I have no clothing yet
[09:33] <Phoul> :P
[09:34] <Phoul> Uhh im wondering tho...
[09:34] <Phoul> Will synaptic ever have a version of E17 in it?
[09:34] <Phoul> Because e16 sucks...
[09:34] <mhz> I like Ubuntu because of what it means "i am who I am because of what we all are"
[09:35] <Phoul> What WM do you use?
[09:35] <mhz> Phoul: don't know. YOu could ask in #ubuntu :)
[09:35] <Phoul> And will there ever be a e17 relese?
[09:35] <Phoul> Lol
[09:35] <mhz> or #ubuntu-devel
[09:35] <mhz> i guess so
[09:35] <Phoul> what WM do you use?
[09:35] <mhz> and if not yet, then jump up and join the devel-team, and help them get the e17 ready!
[09:35] <mhz> :D
[09:36] <Phoul> How do i get into that room?
[09:36] <Phoul> Like whats the room name?
[09:36] <mhz> 99% of the times, i always get back to WindowMaker and Fluxbox
[09:36] <Phoul> hehehe
[09:36] <Phoul> I like fluxbox
[09:36] <Phoul> :P
[09:36] <mhz> are you using XChat?
[09:36] <Phoul> Im on gnome right now tho
[09:36] <Phoul> And yes im on xchat but whats the room name?
[09:36] <Phoul> ubuntu-devel?
[09:36] <mhz> just type /join #ubuntu
[09:37] <Phoul> Im talking about the ubuntu devel room
[09:37] <Phoul> I know how to use IRC
[09:37] <Phoul> ><
[09:37] <mhz> or /join #ubuntu-devel
[09:37] <mhz> but that's the name of the room
[09:37] <mhz> oh, you made it :D
[10:20] <mhz> ogra: re 'owning'... so, you say I have soem responsibilities regardng 'time frames'. Which time frame? Should I start a new group in Launchpad?