[11:42] <LocutusOfBorg> please update topic
[11:43] <LocutusOfBorg> "released 14.04.4"
[11:43] <mapreri> the joy of channel with -t, so rare in freenode
[11:43] <LocutusOfBorg> I never thought I was able to do it :)
[15:15] <tjaalton> so new xserver can move from ppa:canonical-x/x-staging to xenial now
[15:15] <tjaalton> infinity: is this a task for you? ^
[15:15] <tjaalton> bug 1547510
[15:15] <ogra_> i think there was a mail saying that he is off today
[15:15] <tjaalton> ah
[15:15] <tjaalton> just today?-)
[15:16] <tjaalton> tomorrow is fine
[15:16] <ogra_> yeah, something about a swap day swap :)
[15:16] <tjaalton> ok
[15:59] <cyphermox> could someone please review the new libcxl source in the xenial NEW queue?
[16:02] <flexiondotorg> infinity, How goes Xubuntu Base and Ubuntu MATE Base?
[16:05] <cyphermox> flexiondotorg: infinity is off today
[16:05] <cyphermox> flexiondotorg: can I help? :)
[16:05] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, OK :-)
[16:05] <knome> does he do anything else than be off? :P
[16:05]  * knome hides
[16:06] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, I'm slacking off in the pub.
[16:06] <cyphermox> knome: hehe
[16:07] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, Well infinity has said he will review/add the Xubuntu Base and Ubuntu MATE Base change to the build system so we can each have a cut down .iso for those experienced users who've been requesting it.
[16:07] <cyphermox> yeah, I'm aware of the general idea
[16:07] <cyphermox> build system, you mean ubuntu-cdimage changes?
[16:08] <flexiondotorg> Yes.
[16:08] <flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/debian-cd/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284435
[16:08] <flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284432
[16:08] <flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284433
[16:34] <teward> If I need something reviewed for an FFe, do I poke here or in -devel?
[16:34] <knome> teward, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[16:34] <teward> knome: right, i've done all those steps and the release team is subscribed :P
[16:35] <teward> i'm stuck in the limbo of waiting for someone to look at it :)
[16:35] <teward> oh great the wiki's 500-ing again for me >>>
[21:22] <michi> davmor2: ping


 Just finished my breakfast here, but still in bed :p
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> lol lazy sunday style
[05:05] <Oxfuxxx> Yeah :)
[05:06] <Oxfuxxx> Tj-'s not here anymore?
[05:09] <Oxfuxxx> He must be hiding.
[05:09] <Oxfuxxx> :P
[06:05] <ducasse> good morning
[11:57] <lotuspsychje> phew its raining 5.11 bugs guiverc
[11:58] <guiverc> yeah.. more users use LTS which you'd appreciate...
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> : )


[01:44] <duflu> jbicha, I saw a comment/rumor that gnome-shell only saves some settings on a clean shutdown (when it hasn't crashed). Do you know anything about that?
[01:44] <duflu> Because I *think* I might have just fixed a logout crash that was our top crasher
[01:49] <jbicha> I don't know anything about that
[01:50] <jbicha> GNOME's doing 3.26.2 releases this week so your fix might make it in 🙂
[01:54] <duflu> jbicha, yes that fix is in 3.26.2. Slightly sad the font rendering fix is only in 3.27. Bionic will get that though right?
[01:56] <jbicha> if you're asking whether 18.04 will get GNOME Shell 3.28, that's still undecided
[01:57] <duflu> Oh dear. OK, I'll need to work on either distro patching or pushing for it in 3.26
[01:58] <duflu> I was thinking 3.27 with hybrid support should theoretically solve many people's display issues too
[01:59] <jbicha> you mean fractional scaling, or something different?
[01:59] <jbicha> multi-monitor?
[02:18] <duflu> jbicha, I mean various bug reports where users with multiple GPUs have no picture on screen, or on the wrong screen. I thought the hybrid work would start to solve those
[02:19] <duflu> Even with a single GPU... if I install a radeon card and intel is disabled when Wayland doesn't work. It feels like that stuff could be related to the 3.27 enhancements
[02:20] <duflu> *then* Wayland doesn't work
[02:23] <duflu> 3.26 doesn't feel like a great choice for LTS to me. But that's based purely on the assumption that 3.28 will be ready early enough and will be significantly better
[02:23] <duflu> otherwise I'm just talking about bugs whose fixes can always be backported
[07:05] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:43] <willcooke> hoy
[08:45] <duflu> ahoy willcooke
[08:45] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[08:52] <willcooke> taking a surprise day off since I don't have a window in my study
[08:53] <willcooke> I'll be on telegram etc etc
[08:53] <willcooke> have a good day all
[08:53] <willcooke> seb128 will run the meeting
[08:53] <duflu> OK then. Bye willcooke
[09:02] <Laney> PHEW
[09:02] <Laney> what's up
[09:03] <duflu> <insert pun>
[09:03] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:09] <seb128> hey Laney & desktopers
[09:09] <seb128> hey duflu
[09:09] <duflu> Hello seb128
[09:10] <seb128> duflu, trying to see if you can DoS the meeting with your weekly summaries? ;)
[09:10] <duflu> seb128, verbosity is an inherited problem
[09:11] <duflu> Plus it seems if I ever miss something out, someone will ask about it
[09:11] <seb128> hehe
[09:21] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:21] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:21] <Laney> & duflu!
[09:22] <seb128> Laney, good! you?
[09:23] <seb128> I slept well this night, 11pm to almost 6pm without being waken up in between :)
[09:23] <Laney> 6pm!!!!
[09:23] <Laney> :P
[09:23] <Laney> well done
[09:23] <seb128> haha, thanks
[09:26] <seb128> Laney, seems like you have IRC closed earlier, just as a fyi willcooke decided to take the day off since he has workers redoing his office and it was not possible to use it today
[09:26] <Laney> alright
[09:26]  * Laney is inside 9999 emails
[09:26] <seb128> one more and it might overflow and go to 0
[09:26] <seb128> who knows!
[09:30]  * Laney overflowed
[13:15] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, i think i know the cause of the theme issue
[13:15] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, glib in the backports PPA doesn't have the per desktop overrides support
[13:16] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, fixing that now
[14:17] <seb128> oSoMoN, seems like this morning guess was right there :)
[14:26] <andyrock> seb128: can you schedule me at the end of the meeting
[14:26] <seb128> andyrock, sure
[14:26] <andyrock> I'm preparing the notes
[14:29] <seb128> :-)
[14:30] <seb128> ok, it's meeting time
[14:30] <seb128> let's see if anyone gets surprised due to DST :p
[14:30] <seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31
[14:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 31 14:30:49 2017 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[14:30] <seb128> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks (out), duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho (out), robert_ancell (out)
[14:31] <kenvandine> o/
[14:31] <jbicha> o/
[14:31] <oSoMoN> 🐵/
[14:31] <seb128> lol
[14:31] <seb128> ok, let's get started
[14:31] <seb128> #topic dgadomski
[14:31] <seb128> dgadomski, hey
[14:32] <dgadomski> hey
[14:32] <Laney> meow
[14:32] <dgadomski> * attended OpenSourceSummit Europe
[14:32] <dgadomski> * found a workaround for bug #1718688, waiting for confirmation from the user who reported that to me
[14:32] <dgadomski> * added some changes and unittest to my fix for bug #1699179
[14:32] <dgadomski> * monitoring bug #1638695 in case any decision made there will be applicable to Xenial.
[14:32] <dgadomski> eof
[14:32] <seb128> dgadomski, thanks
[14:33] <seb128> #topic duflu
[14:33] <seb128> (be ready, long summary coming)
[14:33] <seb128> * Mutter/Xwayland crash handling: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789086
[14:33] <seb128>   - Completed several patch iterations during the week.
[14:33] <seb128>   - Landed upstream: https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/commit/?id=054c25f693a
[14:33] <seb128> * Mutter: blurry shell fonts: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645433
[14:33] <seb128>   - Completed several patch iterations during the week.
[14:33] <seb128>   - Landed upstream: https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/commit/?id=a37956c9
[14:33] <seb128> * Totem's big stutter bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733780
[14:33] <seb128>   - Finally, almost got a code review of my one line fix. Although that was only a Rejection without any reason given. The maintainer does however request much more complicated API changes (affecting multiple projects) instead.
[14:33] <seb128>   - I think I've lost patience with totem for now and will just distro patch the one-line fix soon. Let upstream change the API to their own liking in their own time.
[14:33] <seb128> * Totem's smaller (bug more frequent) stutter bug in GTK also has fixes pending review (links below).
[14:33] <seb128> * Unresponsive touchpads: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98839
[14:33] <seb128>   - Yes, already. I thought this was a task for next year but upstream suddenly woke up this week and has been asking me to test patches. Looks like a fix is close to landing!
[14:34] <seb128>   - Testing patches, testing hardware
[14:34] <seb128>   - Reading kernel code and finding more things worth fixing (next year-ish).
[14:34] <seb128> * Incorrect %CPU in gnome-system-monitor: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788922
[14:34] <seb128>   - Just got frustrated and fixed it myself as a quick Friday evening job.
[14:34] <seb128>   - Patch proposed upstream.
[14:34] <seb128> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv.
[14:34] <seb128>   - Mountains and mountains of bug traffic this week, but we mostly kept up.
[14:34] <seb128> * Patches awaiting Ubuntu sponsorship (or needing refreshing for 18.04):
[14:34] <seb128>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846
[14:34] <seb128> * Patches awaiting upstream review:
[14:34] <seb128>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787001
[14:34] <seb128>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773453
[14:34] <seb128>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787665
[14:34] <seb128>   ^^^ These have either been ignored for months, or received spurious reviews which I answered and then get ignored. But I would rather they stayed quiet till after my vacation.
[14:34] <seb128> * PulseAudio 11:
[14:34] <seb128>   - Been working on a TODO list for this for a long time. I hope to start on it ahead of schedule (ie. this week instead of December/January as planned).
[14:34] <seb128>
[14:34] <seb128> (giving us a minute to read/digest that ;)
[14:35] <seb128> ok, next
[14:35] <seb128> #topic jbicha
[14:35] <seb128> jbicha, hey
[14:35] <jbicha> • Synced cairo and merged fontconfig (LP: #1702544) for color emoji support.
[14:35] <jbicha> • Packaged nototools and fonts-noto-color-emoji, uploading to Debian NEW soon
[14:35] <jbicha> • LocutusOfBorg merged remmina 1.2~ (uses freerdp2) & I built vinagre with freerdp2 support too.
[14:35] <jbicha> • Uploaded gtk 3.22.25 to artful/unapproved LP: #1728421
[14:35] <jbicha> • Uploaded fix to bionic for LP: #1722809, robert_ancell will SRU
[14:35] <jbicha> • libgit2 transition
[14:35] <jbicha> • Helped remove mozjs24. IMO mozjs (1.8.5, from Firefox 4) is removable, leaving just mozjs38 and 52 (LP: #1714821)
[14:36] <jbicha> • mozjs52 / gjs and its rdeps are back on s390x. I assume we don't want to start building ubuntu-desktop there again?
[14:36] <jbicha> • Help Needed for troubleshooting third-party scanner driver issues, see LP: #1707352
[14:36] <jbicha> eof
[14:37] <seb128> jbicha, the gnome-user-share bug referenced there was a copy error?
[14:37] <seb128> or is mozjs having to do with it?
[14:38] <jbicha> oops, should have been LP: #1728038
[14:38] <seb128> jbicha, did you try to talk to Robert about the sane-backends issue? it's sort of his domain
[14:38] <seb128> that bug reference makes more sense :p
[14:38] <jbicha> yes, but he didn't have answers yet
[14:38] <seb128> k
[14:38] <seb128> thanks jbicha
[14:38] <seb128> #topic jamesh
[14:38] <seb128> jamesh, hey, unsure if you are around?
[14:39] <seb128> willcooke didn't fwd me your update
[14:39] <seb128> k, seems he's not there
[14:39] <seb128> next
[14:39] <seb128> #topic kenvandine
[14:39] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[14:39] <kenvandine> * oSoMon found an issue with gtk theme settings not being picked up in a fresh user session.  This only affects 17.10, works as expected on 16.04, zesty, etc.  I suspect this has to do with per desktop overrides.  I'm refreshing our backport of glib now to get that change to confirm it fixes it.
[14:39] <kenvandine> * Did some digging into yelp support for our snaps.  I think we might be able to solve the issue of finding help files with the use of the OpenURI support in th
[14:39] <kenvandine> e freedesktop portal and a patch to snapd to support help uris.
[14:39] <kenvandine> * Did some work on the desktop helpers, creating symlinks to the xdg dirs so they properly appear in the file picker.  Need to do a little more work before subm
[14:40] <kenvandine> itting a PR.
[14:40] <kenvandine> * Backporting some artful fixes to the gnome-3-26 PPA to get them in the platform snap
[14:40] <kenvandine> eof
[14:41] <seb128> kenvandine, the glib/per desktop override is basically what we suspected when we discussed that with Olivier this morning, let's see how the refresh is working
[14:41] <seb128> thanks kenvandine
[14:41] <oSoMoN> thanks kenvandine !
[14:41] <kenvandine> ah, you guys talked about it :)
[14:42] <seb128> yeah, I read the backlog and I mentioned that the dconf file existing on start was probably not the issue
[14:42] <seb128> if the file exists it's probably something buggy that does a write on loggin
[14:42] <seb128> which shouldn't be done, desrt chassed those buggy cases in the past
[14:42] <seb128> anyway let's see
[14:42] <seb128> next
[14:43] <seb128> #topic Laney
[14:43] <seb128> Laney, hey
[14:43] <Laney> hi
[14:43] <Laney> • v. short week 💀
[14:43] <Laney> • finally figured out a way to filter shell extensions in gnome-software so you see the usable ones, going to submit a MR later 👻
[14:43] <Laney> • bos02 cloud region stability work got finished, worked today on enabling arm64/s390x cloud autopkgtesting - should be good to go in proposed-migration once some more hardware is enabled in openstack 🧛
[14:43] <Laney> • helped a bit with bionic archive opening (NewReleaseCycleProcess checklist stuff) 🕷
[14:43] <Laney> 🎃
[14:43] <oSoMoN> happy halloween Laney :)
[14:43] <jbicha> which ones are usable?
[14:44] <kenvandine> :)
[14:44] <seb128> thanks Laney
[14:45] <seb128> #topic oSoMoN
[14:45] <seb128> oSoMoN, hey
[14:45] <Laney> ones that are compatible with your shell version
[14:45] <oSoMoN> hey there
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • chromium 62.0.3202.62 published to -security and -updates for all supported series, and 62.0.3202.75 ready for publication
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • managed to build chromium 63 (beta) on trusty, using gcc-mozilla (gcc 4.9) and statically linking its libstdc++
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • first chromium 64 (dev) build ongoing in PPA
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • updated chromium snap after a call for testing, useful feedback and a few fixes: 62.0.3202.75 in stable channel, 63.0.3239.18 in beta channel
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • prepared libreoffice 5.4.2 SRU for artful (bug #1728072), now in unapproved queue
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • preparing libreoffice 5.4.2 upload for bionic with a couple of fixes (debhelper and icu)
[14:45] <oSoMoN> • libreoffice snap 5.4.2: enabled spellchecking (bug #1680928), hyphenation and thesaurus, and issued call for testing, got good feedback so far, planning on promoting to stable in a couple of days if no blocking issue arises
[14:45] <oSoMoN> EOF
[14:45] <seb128> thanks oSoMoN
[14:46] <seb128> #topic seb128
[14:46] <seb128> • spent most of the week triaging&debugging&sending upstream launchpad incoming bugs
[14:46] <seb128> • sponsoring (libreoffice artful SRU, u-c-c bugfix + xenial SRU)
[14:46] <seb128> • some trello board reviews and administrative work

[14:47] <seb128> #topic tkamppeter
[14:47] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[14:47] <tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting: Studied GitHub Pages as possibility to host the site and manage the content, including news blog in GIT repos.
[14:47] <tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Planned the distribution of the funds received from Google.
[14:47] <tkamppeter> - hplip: Uploaded missing proprietary plugins to OpenPrinting. HP failed to send them to me earlier.
[14:47] <tkamppeter> - cups, cups-filters, hplip, ...: First syncs into Bionic.
[14:47] <tkamppeter> - CPDB (Common Print Dialog Backends): Posted on Debian Printing mailing list to ask them to start packaging.
[14:47] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[14:48] <seb128> thanks tkamppeter
[14:48] <seb128> #topic robert_ancell
[14:48] <seb128> - gnome-software/snapd-glib bug fixing
[14:48] <seb128> - Uploaded updated gnome-software/snapd-glib packages to ppa:ubuntu-desktop/gnome-software
[14:48] <seb128> - Prepared artful gnome-software/snapd-glib SRU (in QA testing now).
[14:48] <seb128> - snapd-glib 1.24 released
[14:49] <seb128> #topic andyrock
[14:49] <seb128> andyrock, your turn :)
[14:49] <andyrock> 1. Livepatch desktop integration:
[14:49] <andyrock>      1.1 working on software-properties to integrate with the new macaron-based API to retrieve lp token
[14:49] <andyrock>      1.2 talking with the right guys to get pymacaroonbakery in Debian and artful
[14:49] <andyrock> 2. OEM bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1716359)
[14:49] <andyrock>      2.1 mp for GCC master (already committed)
[14:49] <andyrock>      2.2 mp for ucc trunk
[14:49] <andyrock>      2.3 sru for ucc xenial
[14:49] <andyrock> 3. Updated the branch to fix osd progress bars in artful
[14:49] <andyrock> 4. Sru for the gtk crash when adding new online accounts
[14:49] <andyrock> eow
[14:50] <seb128> thanks andyrock
[14:50] <seb128> #topic aob
[14:50] <seb128> k, jbicha has some of those at least
[14:50] <seb128> jbicha, I guess you can start :)
[14:50] <jbicha> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-October/005272.html
[14:51] <jbicha> #1 fontconfig: should we keep the templates in /etc indefinitely or ok to follow upstream?
[14:52] <seb128> it's probably ok to follow upstream/debian if you are confident it's not going to create issues for users upgrading
[14:53] <seb128> I think I'm the one who rolled back on those changes at the time
[14:53] <jbicha> I am not confident, it will break users who symlinked one of the extra available configs
[14:53] <seb128> but that's because I didn't want to have to deal with the migration and we were updating ahead of Debian
[14:53] <jbicha> yes, I think that was like 2012 (!)
[14:53] <seb128> do we have any issue with the current situation?
[14:54] <jbicha> no
[14:54] <seb128> well, my position would be to stay with what we have unless somebody is wanting to deal with the change properly, which means addressing the upgrade problems
[14:55] <jbicha> ok, that's fine
[14:55] <jbicha> moving on to #2: dealing with headerbar patches
[14:55] <jbicha> Khurshid also replied to my email: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-October/005273.html
[14:56] <seb128> tricky
[14:57] <jbicha> the headerbar patches are useful for Unity becuase otherwise LIM is broken there
[14:57] <seb128> we said we would drop them to lower delta/maintainance cost
[14:57] <seb128> but if we have contributors doing the work it's a bit less easy to say "no" rather than including them for this cycle
[14:58] <seb128> are those patches known to create any problem?
[14:58] <jbicha> they look bad on other desktops (that bug was filed by elementary OS ) and I saw similar badness in Xfce
[14:58] <jbicha> so, changing the patches to only apply against Unity are an improvement
[14:58] <seb128> right, but the updates patch change the behaviour to be in unity only
[14:58] <seb128> right
[14:58] <seb128> wdyt?
[14:59] <seb128> I think I'm fine either way
[14:59] <jbicha> actually, some of the patches were set to apply anywhere that wasn't GNOME which was why the bug was filed
[14:59] <seb128> I guess Laney would be in favor of dropping them to low delta with upstream
[14:59] <seb128> right
[14:59] <seb128> that was probably the wrong choice
[15:00] <seb128> I think I would be slightly in favor of removing those changes
[15:00] <seb128> we can investigate this gtk3-nocsd mentioned on the list
[15:00] <jbicha> it sort of made sense at the time but I think CSD are reasonably well supported by desktops now
[15:00] <seb128> I don't know about it
[15:00] <jbicha> how about we think about it more then?
[15:00] <seb128> yes
[15:00] <seb128> let's follow up on the list
[15:01] <jbicha> ok, #3 ok to sync gnome-user-share?
[15:02] <seb128> what's the user experience today with that one?
[15:02] <seb128> you can enable it from an ui and it prompts you to install packages?
[15:02] <jbicha> there is no user experience in the latest version of gnome-user-share itself
[15:02] <seb128> well, with the one we currently have
[15:03] <seb128> like what do we give up on?
[15:03] <jbicha> with the old version, it has a file sharing thing used by Unity
[15:04] <jbicha> but we have been patching it to break the file sharing feature for years becuase we didn't want that apache bin in the desktop install
[15:05] <seb128> ideally we would have g-c-c installing packages on demand when you try to enable it there I guess?
[15:05] <sil2100> kenvandine: hey!
[15:05] <sil2100> kenvandine: you around?
[15:05] <seb128> we are in a meeting
[15:05] <sil2100> Ah, oops, excuse me then!
[15:05] <seb128> but almost over
[15:05] <seb128> no worry
[15:05] <kenvandine> hey sil2100
[15:05]  * sil2100 hides
[15:05] <seb128> jbicha, let's continue on the list
[15:05] <jbicha> ok
[15:06] <seb128> sorry I feel like we don't have a good quorum today
[15:06] <seb128> willcooke is off and didrocks as well (who usually has input on such topics)
[15:06] <jbicha> g-c-c hides the File Sharing subpanel if gnome-user-share is not installed
[15:06] <xnox> Laney, whoop whoop re:bos02 =)
[15:06] <seb128> and others don't seem to have much opinion
[15:06] <Laney> hi
[15:07] <seb128> jbicha, on a similar topic we should perhaps revisit what we do with nautilus-share, it's quite buggy atm
[15:07] <seb128> jbicha, the pam integration package it tries to install has been remove in xenial
[15:07] <Laney> might be worth thinking about 3b in jbicha's email
[15:07] <seb128> so installation fails and auth isn't working unless you go add users manually
[15:07] <seb128> hey Laney :)
[15:08] <Laney> it'd be cool to have those features
[15:08] <seb128> right
[15:08] <seb128> I think I would like to have it
[15:08] <seb128> either by installation things
[15:08] <Laney> guessing security would want to remove it
[15:08] <Laney> review*
[15:08] <Laney> or remove :P
[15:08] <seb128> or by changing g-c-c to do "install on demand" rather than hidding
[15:08] <Laney> mmm
[15:09] <jbicha> Laney: you were right the first time ;)
[15:10] <seb128> jbicha, ok, let's continue on the list, it seems like we would like to have the feature user visible but we need to define the best way to get there
[15:11] <jbicha> sure, thanks
[15:11] <seb128> thanks for bringing those topics
[15:11] <seb128> sorry that there was not much traction to discuss them
[15:11] <seb128> as said we are missing some people
[15:11] <seb128> let's continue on the list and maybe try to get a conclusion next week
[15:11] <jbicha> it's fine, some are complicated and it's good to think things through
[15:11] <seb128> right
[15:11] <seb128> any other topic?
[15:13] <seb128> seems not, it's a wrap then
[15:13] <Laney> nein
[15:13] <Laney> thanks!
[15:13] <seb128> thanks everyone!
[15:13] <seb128> #endmeeting
[15:13] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 31 15:13:12 2017 UTC.
[15:13] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-10-31-14.30.moin.txt
[15:13] <oSoMoN> thanks everyone
[15:13]  * kenvandine waves
[15:14] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, please let me know when the glib package in the backports PPA is refreshed so I can trigger a LO snap rebuild
[15:15] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, i will
[15:15] <kenvandine> waiting for an LP build that's queued
[15:17] <Laney> jbicha: on fontconfig, would a symlink /etc/fonts/conf.avail/ -> the new directory work?
[15:17] <Laney> that or a maintainer script fixing up any symlinks in conf.d
[15:18] <Laney> you'd have to fix all font pkgs that install into conf.avail too
[15:19] <Laney> or make fontconfig read both?
[15:20] <jbicha> fontconfig itself reads from /etc/fonts/conf.d/ these are just templates that can be symlinked
[15:21] <jbicha> maybe you're familiar with web servers using sites-available and sites-enabled ?
[15:21] <Laney> I remember the seup
[15:21] <Laney> setup
[15:21] <jbicha> I didn't know anything about fontconfig until I started working on this emoji thing
[15:21] <Laney> so the only problem is that someone might have manually symlinked something that moves into /usr/share/
[15:22] <jbicha> right
[15:22] <jbicha> I'm not sure how making that directory a symlink would work since there are lots of other Debian packages that try to install files to that /etc directory
[15:22] <Laney> shouldn't be required, I don't think emptying it should be a goal
[15:23] <Laney> at least not now
[15:23] <jbicha> apt-file search /etc/fonts/conf.d
[15:24] <Laney> most packages install into .d and .avail
[15:24] <Laney> and then when they move to /usr they should fix old symlinks
[15:25] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, did you see my ping yesterday that chromium 62.0.3202.75 is ready for publication in the stage PPA?
[15:25] <jbicha> we can symlink files, I don't have any experience with symlinking directories in Debian packages if other Debian packages might try using those directories
[15:25] <Laney> nah don't think that is required
[15:26] <jbicha> I think I'm confused by what you are suggesting then
[15:26] <Laney> I think fontconfig itself should only need to care about packages that it is now moving to /usr that weren't symlinked from conf.d before
[15:26] <jbicha> ok, we can add symlinks for all of those files
[15:26] <Laney> s/packages/files/
[15:27] <Laney> either symlink those from conf.avail or a maintainer script to fix up any now dangling symlinks in conf.d
[15:28] <Laney> don't actually see any on my system though
[15:28] <Laney> oh no I do
[15:29] <Laney> e.g. 10-no-sub-pixel.conf
[15:32] <Laney> an advantage of fixing them up is that it's a droppable patch post-LTS but symlinking less so
[15:34] <jbicha> Laney: so sort of like https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-freedesktop/fontconfig-debian.git/tree/debian/fontconfig-config.maintscript
[15:35] <jbicha> but with mv_conffile instead of rm_conffile
[15:36] <Laney> that's the removing half, to fix up it's something like for file in /etc/conf.d/*; if symlink pointing to one of these removed files, remove it and make symlink to /usr/share/...; done
[15:37] <Laney> did Debian bother doing anything like that?
[15:38] <jbicha> it doesn't look like it based on https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-freedesktop/fontconfig-debian.git/log/debian/rules
[15:39] <jbicha> let me check…
[15:39] <Laney> not that I can see
[15:44] <jbicha> well this doesn't work: https://bugs.debian.org/714157
[15:44] <Laney> yeah don't do that if other packages are going to try to put files there
[15:46] <jbicha> yeah my instinct said that was a bad idea
[15:46] <Laney> I thought the goal was to stop putting anything in that /etc directory
[15:46] <Laney> but it's not, so no need to go through that pain
[15:48] <jbicha> yeah, it seems likely there are 3rd party deb's that we couldn't fix
[15:50] <jbicha> I don't have much experience with maintainer scripts but I think I have enough to start with now
[15:50] <jbicha> thanks for the ideas
[15:51] <Laney> should be fun
[15:51] <Laney> happy to review it if you want to show me something
[15:53] <Laney> laney@nightingale> readlink -e /etc/fonts/conf.d/10-antialias.conf                                                                                ~
[15:53] <Laney> /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-antialias.conf
[15:53] <Laney> that's probably a thing to use
[15:54] <Laney> lies, it doesn't work for broken symlnks
[15:54] <Laney> readlink -m
[16:37] <oSoMoN> ricotz, have you verified that packages build in bionic with https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=91b98436ca90dad3bb11a5944be70b39c057e8ec ?
[16:39] <ricotz> oSoMoN, yes
[16:40] <oSoMoN> ricotz, excellent, thanks!
[17:04]  * andyrock misses c++ 💔
[17:14] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, new glib didn't fix it
[17:14] <oSoMoN> :/
[17:15] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, it must still be related though
[17:15] <kenvandine> i'm sure this worked relatively recently
[17:15] <kenvandine> but i probably haven't tested this scenario since the per desktop overrides work landed
[17:34] <xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/+activereviews looks ungardened
[18:18]  * oSoMoN EOD
[18:18] <oSoMoN> good night all
[22:54] <jbicha> I opened a trello card for the sane-backends issues since I don't think I'll be able to do much more troubleshooting myself on it


[04:31] <jbailey> doko: Hey, you were in Seville.  Would it be hard to get a PPA setup for the toolchain team?
[04:32] <Mithrandir> jbailey: shouldn't be, no.  Talk to cprov about how to go about it
[04:32] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Lovely, thanks.
[04:40] <jbailey> Eh, nice.  It's done. = )
[04:51] <doko> didn't follow the ppa discussion yet, but yes, that would be very nice


[06:36] <pragomer> hi. I have two kubuntu 18.04.3 installtions (on two pcs). On one of the systems the search function does not work in dolphin: when I hit strg+f and input lets say "mkv" to find all mkv-files, this works on pc1 but not on pc2.
[06:36] <pragomer> any idea what could be broken here?
[06:41] <valorie> pragomer: did you disable baloo on one of them?
[06:41] <valorie> that's the indexer
[06:41] <valorie> !baloo
[06:42] <valorie> hmm, doesn't look like we have a factoid for that
[06:42] <valorie> if you hit alt+space, krunner pops up
[06:43] <valorie> if you type file indexer monitor you can check
[06:46] <diogenes_> pragomer, btw there is a good zenity search script that is distro agnostic, you can use it everywhere.
[06:47] <pragomer> diogenes_: how is it called?
[06:48] <pragomer> valorie: hi .. yes an indexing issue is what I thought of...  I will check baloo. Thank you
[06:48] <diogenes_> pragomer, sudo apt install zenity and i will pastebin the script.
[06:49] <valorie> yw
[06:51] <pragomer> valorie: jippie.. this helped. I seemed, that my flashdrive was in baloo-config's exceptions... for whatever reason (on pc1 it isnt)... I now deleted the exception and I will see, after re-indexing, if it works, but I think i will.
[06:51] <pragomer> thank you very much :-)
[06:52] <valorie> excellent! best of luck
[07:04] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:28] <prince__> hi
[08:32] <qih> Drive-by greeting ...
[11:42] <BluesKaj> hi folks
[11:45] <ohallot_tdf> Hi... I installed an Appearance theme "KDE Story" in my Kubuntu. The login screen keep displaying an annoying screen keyboard. How do I get rid of it?
[11:57] <BluesKaj> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/108368/how-to-disable-onboard-on-screen-keyboard-that-automatically-starts-when-i-log
[15:55] <ruslan> aaa
[15:55] <ruslan> Прив
[16:52] <Jino> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/4be80c9f2b79d9da549b49ae82207110/konsole-error.png
[16:52] <Jino> Hi Friends
[16:52] <Jino> I am new to linux and I am using kubuntu
[16:52] <Jino> my konsole is working weird lately
[16:53] <Jino> its looks like a ide than terminal any help ?
[19:06] <balln> hello! is this the right place to ask about audio/video issues? i'm new to kubuntu
[19:12] <balln> namely - audio (speakers via xonar u5 external card, everything set to 100% in pulseaudio) is very quiet compared to windows. and experiencing poor fps in games and even watching fullscreen videos, with gtx1060, using recommended nvidia-driver-435
[21:02] <sheytan> Hi! Anyone experiencig problesm with Horizon Go from UPC? It was working fine for the last 3 years and yesterday it stopped. It's loading the channel but then i get an error.  On other platforms (win, android) it works fine :/
[21:15] <bprompt> horizon go? wassdat?
[21:15] <bprompt> I guess I don't, since I don't run it :)
[21:16] <OerHeks> horizon go is tv-on-demand from upc
[21:16] <OerHeks> in NL it is called Ziggo-go, same compagny
[21:24] <sheytan> exactly, it's a TV service
[23:05] <uberbdon> Hello everyone!
[23:05] <bprompt> allo
[23:06] <uberbdon> i'm hoping someone can give me a quick hand setting a static IP on my eth0 so I can connect to a device with a hard coded static IP
[23:07] <uberbdon> I'm using the default "connections" settings GUI within Kubuntu
[23:07] <uberbdon> way more optiions than simply setting a static IP in window's for IPV4
[23:08] <tomreyn> is it ethernet or wireless?
[23:08] <uberbdon> cool, people are here :)
[23:08] <tomreyn> :)
[23:08] <uberbdon> So here's my situation, I install internet for a local WISP, and I manually program each radio before deployment
[23:08] <uberbdon> the default IP for these radios is <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:09] <uberbdon> in windows, I set my IPv4 IP to static 169.254.1.x and then pop a browser, and enter the device settings
[23:09] <uberbdon> In Kubuntu, do I need to be disconnected to wlan to do this?
[23:09] <uberbdon> this is done via ethernet, mind you
[23:10] <tomreyn> so it's done via ether net but you'd like to know how to do it on wireless?
[23:11] <uberbdon> negative
[23:11] <uberbdon> i want to use ethernet
[23:11] <uberbdon> but I'm attempting this in kubuntu now instead of windows, and windows there werent nearly as many options
[23:12] <tomreyn> <IP_ADDRESS> is an ipv4 address from the link local range, but from what i understood that's not a mechanism you use on windows
[23:12] <uberbdon> i noticed under "method" link local is an option to use
[23:12] <tomreyn> so you'd rather want static assignment then on kubuntu as well, i guess
[23:13] <uberbdon> but again, in windows you simply set IPv4 of your NIC to static IP
[23:13] <uberbdon> I want to be able to switch my static ip around
[23:13] <tomreyn> yes, likewise on kubuntu
[23:13] <uberbdon> hmm, ok
[23:13] <uberbdon> my normal procedure is, log into 169 GUI, program to the IP we're going to use, then change my nic to that IP and continue programming it
[23:13] <tomreyn> ipv4 method -> manual, then you specify an address on the same subnet
[23:13] <uberbdon> hmm, ok
[23:14] <uberbdon> im thinking theres a conflict with me being connected to wifi at the same time
[23:14] <uberbdon> I guess I shouldve tested that out before running to the IRC channel :)
[23:15] <uberbdon> ill be right back and let you know if thats the problem
[23:17] <uberbdon> that was indeed the cause
[23:18] <tomreyn> so it's alreadey fixed?
[23:19] <uberbdon> yup
[23:19] <uberbdon> now that I think about it i don't think you can do that in windows, either
[23:19] <uberbdon> I'm just always in the field with my laptop device
[23:19] <uberbdon> windows laptop device*
[23:20] <tomreyn> very well. windows 10 will automatically switch to link local if if can't get a dhcp lease. i'm not sure how that was on earlier versions.
[23:20] <tomreyn> oh gone


[20:52] <acrilex> Hello guys, just a fast question. How would you translate chains that are attached in a single word, for exemple WaveShape or ColorMap, knowing that, in my language, we have determinants beetween those words that are needed for the context and that there is only limited number of characters?


[09:55] <Japje> hey guys, im trying to get debian10 into maas as an image (which i've got working). However for some reason even though the cloud-init is enabled it will not run on first boot for some reason
[09:55] <Japje> as soon as i manually run cloud-init init --local i can restart the network to get it going
[09:56] <Japje> (the interfaced.d/50-cloud-init.cfg file isnt created therefor no network)
[09:56] <Japje> anyone perhaps an idea what could be preventing it from running on boot?
[09:57] <Japje> systemctl show cloud-config, cloud-final and cloud-init-local services as enabled
[10:04] <Japje> the image i used is the latest debian10 openstack iamge
[10:04] <Japje> image*
[10:41] <Japje> hmnz, cloud-init status says disabled, but i have neither a /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled nor a commandline in /proc/cmdline that would cause that
[10:41] <Japje> any other ways to have it disabled?
[11:41] <Japje> it seems that cloud-init gets disabled when there are no datasources, and it looks like maas throws away the only datasource there is, so i guess i found the cause
[13:09] <Odd_Bloke> Japje: Glad you tracked it down!  Is there anything else we can help with?
[13:10] <Japje> neah, i guess im mostly fighting maas for trying to run debian in it
[13:10] <Japje> nothing thats cloud-inits fault
[13:10] <Odd_Bloke> Japje: It's cool that you're trying to get that to work!
[13:11] <Japje> its booting and the network comes up
[13:11] <Japje> but none of the user_data i push on deploy actually gets in the vm
[13:13] <Odd_Bloke> It looks like there is a #maas on Freenode, have you tried asking for help in there?  I believe https://discourse.maas.io also gets pretty frequent use, so that might be another good forum to seek assistance?
[13:14] <Japje> yeah im on the irc channel
[13:14] <Japje> but irc is very quiet lately
[13:14] <Japje> so i might check out their discord
[13:15] <mrtmr> Hi everyone, in openstack/bifrost we can pass network_data.json file to server for cloud-init with configdrive. Today I tried to pass a user_data file and I succeed it, with biforst-configdrive-dynamic role. but there is a problem with cloud.cfg file I must to add resolv_conf module to in it otherwise my user_data is not working  at boot time. in m
[13:15] <mrtmr> y user data there is a basic expamle for configure /etc/resolv.conf file do you have any idea how to i re-write cloud.cfg file
[13:17] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: o/  What distro are you using?
[13:17] <mrtmr> in my default cloud.cfg file, there is not inside resolv_conf module
[13:17] <mrtmr> debian 9 it created with disk image builder by bifrost
[13:20] <mrtmr> if I add this module name by my hand to cloud.cfg and re-run again it execute that module
[13:20] <Odd_Bloke> Yep, the default Debian cloud.cfg won't include cc_resolv_conf.
[13:21] <Odd_Bloke> Looking at the documentation for that module (https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#resolv-conf) suggests it's only supported for Fedora, RHEL, and SLES.
[13:22] <Odd_Bloke> It also says: "And, in Ubuntu/Debian it is recommended that DNS be configured via the standard /etc/network/interfaces configuration file."
[13:22] <mrtmr> okey my bad sry missed that part of it
[13:22] <Odd_Bloke> Not a problem!
[13:22] <Odd_Bloke> What is it that you're doing that leads you to want cc_resolv_conf to run?
[13:30] <mrtmr> cloud-init is configure my interfaces but it is not edit my resolv.conf file
[13:30] <mrtmr> even my network interfaces up and running
[13:40] <Odd_Bloke> Hold on, just launching a Debian instance so I can check if my assumptions are Ubuntu-specific before I respond. :)
[13:44] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: OK, so if you're passing network configuration, I think I would expect the network configuration backend to configure DNS appropriately.
[13:45] <Odd_Bloke> Which I think should mean that you don't need the cc_resolv_conf module to do it for you.
[13:45] <Odd_Bloke> Note the "I think"s in there, though. ;)
[13:48] <mrtmr> is there a way to add cc_resolv_conf module to cloud.cfg
[13:48] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: Well, yes, you can just edit the file, or drop in a cloud.cfg.d snippet.
[13:48] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: Note that you need to replicate the entire list in a drop-in, though.
[13:49] <Odd_Bloke> Otherwise you'll _only_ run cc_resolv_conf.
[13:49] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: But I don't think you should need cc_resolv_conf to run if you're specifying network_data.json.
[13:50] <Odd_Bloke> (So it may be better to dig in to why you aren't getting the configuration you want from the network rendering.)
[13:50] <mrtmr> yeah im specifying network_data.json
[13:51] <Odd_Bloke> Would you be able to pastebin your network_data.json?
[13:52] <mrtmr> btw my debian image is created with disk-image-builder and my network_data.json is rendered by bifrost
[13:54] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: Right, I'm trying to work out if my assumptions about what your cloud is doing are correct; there are a lot of ways to deploy/configure OpenStack. :p
[13:56] <mrtmr> https://gist.github.com/mrtmrcbr/505e335f464203707a367666d1bfccd1
[13:57] <mrtmr> here is my network_data.json
[13:57] <Odd_Bloke> OK, I would expect to see <IP_ADDRESS> configured as your DNS server without cc_resolv_conf; does that not match what you're seeing?
[13:58] <Odd_Bloke> And, if it doesn't, could you file a bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+filebug) with the output of `cloud-init collect-logs` from a failing instance so we can dig in to what is going on?
[14:03] <mrtmr> i did some changes should i send this logs with clean instalation
[14:12] <Odd_Bloke> Ideally, yes, please.
[14:30] <mrtmr> Odd_Bloke '''cloud-init collect-logs''' this command, which release does come with
[14:34] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: Ah, that's a question I should have asked earlier: what version of cloud-init are you using?
[14:36] <mrtmr> my debian image came with cloud-init 0.7.9 by default. disk-image-builder puts it there
[14:41] <Odd_Bloke> OK, 0.7.9 is pretty old at this point, which would explain why the network config isn't being consumed properly.
[14:41] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: rharper: https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/371090 <-- small MP to make doc builds not hang randomly due to an external dependency
[14:48] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: Are you able to try Debian stable (which has 18.3) and see if you get different behaviour?
[14:49] <mrtmr> yeah it is dissapointing, in debian repos there is not avaliable new releases
[14:49] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1839061 <-- presumably /etc/ssh/... is root owned, not user owned, so the "7" applies to a different person?
[14:49] <Odd_Bloke> mrtmr: Debian does have 18.3, which is ~17 months newer than 0.7.9, at least.
[14:54] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: it is root owned, but why can sshd read user's '7' but not roots?
[14:59] <Odd_Bloke> Does it drop permissions down to the SSH'ing user or something?
[15:03] <mrtmr> okey it is avaliable from debian strecht repo but i installed with deb file and i rebooted the machine
[15:03] <mrtmr> sry - it is not avaliable*
[15:13] <Odd_Bloke> OK, we'll see if that works; I was suggesting using a Debian stable image, FWIW.
[15:24] <mrtmr> Odd_Bloke after reboot resolv.conf didnt change
[16:20] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I'm now +1 on tribaal's Exoscale change; shall I mark it Approved to land it?
[16:21] <tribaal> \o/
[16:21] <tribaal> thanks Odd_Bloke
[16:21] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Or, rather, I'm going to mark it Approved unless you have objections. :)
[16:21] <Odd_Bloke> tribaal: Thank you, and thanks to Mathieu too!
[16:23] <tribaal> will pass the thanks forward
[16:29] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: +1
[16:35] <Odd_Bloke> tribaal: Approved, should be auto-landed Real Soon Now. :)
[17:09] <tribaal> Odd_Bloke: rharper: nice! Thanks a lot!
[17:12] <tribaal> blackboxsw: smoser: thanks a lot to you both as well!
[17:52] <AnhVoMSFT> rharper - any idea how I can wrap an events reporting context manager around this         with EphemeralDHCPv4(fallback_nic):
[17:52] <AnhVoMSFT> we want to use the event context manager around the dhcp's lease obtain, which is a context manager itself
[17:54] <AnhVoMSFT> I can create our own context manager and in the __enter__ I can probably call the enter method of EphemeralDHCPv4 and wrap it within the event's reporting context mgr, but want to check if you can think of a better way
[18:13] <blackboxsw>  AnhVoMSFT I'll peek at that to see what would work. I think we have a second example of that (calling the __enter__ directly within a different context mgr)
[18:15] <AnhVoMSFT> thanks blackboxsw
[18:17] <blackboxsw> also AnhVoMSFT I'll send you an email. looking at how best to create a separate subnet on separate nic in Azure that has it's own separate gateway. Mostly to validate this branch behavior: https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/370970
[18:17] <blackboxsw> I couldn't find an easy way in Azure portal to create a separate subnet w/ a unique gateway. Not really sure that that's a frequent use-case on Azure
[18:17] <AnhVoMSFT> Sure blackboxsw - if I don't know how I can go find the answer
[18:19] <rharper> AnhVoMSFT: http://hoardedhomelyhints.dietbuddha.com/2014/02/python-aggregating-multiple-context.html; the ExitStack in the comments here looks like what we want,
[18:20] <AnhVoMSFT> strange, that link gave me "Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist."
[18:20] <blackboxsw> AnhVoMSFT: no worries thought I'd ping in case. it's slightly related to the multi-ip support on the primary nic in Azure
[18:20] <blackboxsw> hrm shows for me
[18:20] <blackboxsw> til multi-context mgr
[18:20] <blackboxsw> from the blog:
[18:20] <blackboxsw> with contextmanager1, contextmanager2, contextmanager3, contextmanager4:
[18:20] <blackboxsw>     pass
[18:21] <AnhVoMSFT> oh there was a semicolon at the end
[18:21] <AnhVoMSFT> it shows for me now
[18:22] <AnhVoMSFT> thanks , I will look into it closely
[18:22] <AnhVoMSFT> it might not work for us though, as I only want to capture the time of obtaining dhcp, (__enter__ call of EphemeralDhcp), not the E2E time of the whole block
[18:25] <blackboxsw> AnhVoMSFT: also, EphemeralDHCPv4 context manager is doing the same kind of nesting you suggested in obtain_lease/clean_network method using EphemeralIPv4Network.__enter__()
[18:26] <blackboxsw> to it manages direct calls EphemeralIPv4Network.__enter__ && __exit__ when needed
[18:26] <AnhVoMSFT> yeah I looked into that yesterday, but I was hoping that I am missing some cool trick of Python :)
[18:26] <AnhVoMSFT> I think I'll go with that mechanism of calling the __enter__ method
[18:46] <rharper> AnhVoMSFT: oh trailing semi-colon
[18:46] <rharper> sorry
[18:46] <rharper> http://hoardedhomelyhints.dietbuddha.com/2014/02/python-aggregating-multiple-context.html
[19:01] <Odd_Bloke> You can nest context managers: with A(): with B(): thing
[20:38] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: blackboxsw: Do either of you have strong feelings about the default behaviour of host key publication?  It's a no-op on data sources that don't support it, so I think it's fine to keep it that way until we have a data source which introduces support but _doesn't_ want it to be the default.  What do you think?
[20:38] <Odd_Bloke> (This is in reference to https://code.launchpad.net/~wrigri/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/370348)
[20:52] <blackboxsw> reading now
[21:13] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: yeah; because I think it's a really great feature and something that DataSources should want to do; I'm generally in favor of enabling by default;
[21:15] <blackboxsw> sorry I relooked at AWS instance connect functionality to see if it was comparable. ok so they want a callback to publish host keys  to their backplane for security of connecting services to their spawned vms. I was wondering if this was like AWS instance connect functionality (not in cloud-init) but I think instance connect for was was the other way around (backplane publishing backend service keys to the host).   It
[21:15] <blackboxsw> seems unique to GCE for the moment, and a noop is a good enough placeholder for the future.
[21:16] <blackboxsw> good to have the method API defined up in the base DataSource to guide future implementation


[01:15] <mtaylor> can I post a link to a PPA in a bug, or is that in violation of PPA terms?
[01:20] <mtaylor> also, fwiw, I just spent a long period of time trying to figure out how to assign a bug to myself and set its status... the triangle was not self-evident with the list of other tasks to the left
[01:21] <LaserJock> mtaylor: I'm pretty sure PPA is public knowledge, i don't think it'd be a problem
[01:21] <mtaylor> LaserJock: ok. thanks!
[01:22] <LaserJock> but I'm not a LP dev so I can't say for sure
[01:22] <LaserJock> but there are PPA URLs on mailing lists so I don't see why not
[01:31] <Odd_Bloke> Are there any instructions on how to communicate with LP bugs via email?
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Odd_Bloke: https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail
[01:36] <Fujitsu> mtaylor: That interface is being redesigned for the next release.
[01:36] <mtaylor> Fujitsu: sweet. then it's not-a-bug
[01:38] <Odd_Bloke> Fujitsu: Thanks.
[02:36] <poolie> hi
[02:37] <poolie> i got a traceback while trying to complete the filing of an apport bug
[02:37] <poolie> Unauthorized: (<Bug at 0x2aaaade216d0>, 'title', 'launchpad.View')
[02:37] <poolie> no oops number
[02:37] <poolie> that seems kind of mean
[02:38] <thumper> poolie: it seems that there is a permission bug somewhere
[02:41] <poolie> yeah
[02:42] <poolie> do you want the traceback or do you think it's been captured
[02:46] <kiko-fud> I want the traceback
[02:47] <kiko-fud> poolie, please
[02:47] <OpenLaunchpadSrc> good night
[02:48] <kiko-fud> heh
[02:52] <poolie> kiko-fud: sent
[03:17] <mpt> since we can't blame old URLs like we can with /malone
[03:17] <kiko> when you find that out
[03:17] <kiko> you could also research why they create new products asking for ubuntu CDs
[03:18] <LaserJock> mpt: because Launchpad is the Ubuntu bug tracker
[03:19] <mpt> LaserJock, these aren't bug reports, they're questions
[03:19] <LaserJock> well, same thing
[03:19] <LaserJock> "issue tracker"
[03:19] <mpt> i.e. in "Answers" rather than "Bugs"
[03:22] <LaserJock> mpt: I take it back, I don't see how they can do it
[03:23] <LaserJock> as far as I can see you have to click on Launchpad, as opposed to Ubuntu which is the item above it, to ask a question on answers.launchpad.net
[03:25] <mpt> hmmmmm
[03:25] <mpt> I wonder if we could special-case "Launchpad" and "Launchpad Translations" to not appear in that list
[03:26] <kiko> mpt, we could, but why?
[03:27] <mpt> kiko, so that I stop getting spammed by people who want to know how to get their keyboard working
[03:27] <mpt> It's quite annoying
[03:27] <kiko> what if the person wants to actually ask a question about launchpad?
[03:27] <kiko> the right way to solve this
[03:27] <kiko> (here goes me blasphemizing and prescribing)
[03:27] <kiko> is
[03:28] <mpt> We have other links to answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[03:28] <kiko> answers.ubuntu.net
[03:28] <mpt> That Launchpad appears in "Most active projects" is just an accident
[03:28] <kiko> bugs.ubuntu.net
[03:28] <kiko> etc
[03:28] <mpt> Oh man, March 2005 called, they want their domains back ;-)
[03:29] <mpt> but seriously
[03:29] <mpt> I agree with you on farming off Answers
[03:29] <LaserJock> kiko: .com
[03:29] <mpt> well
[03:29] <mpt> theming off, anyway
[03:29] <kiko> right
[03:29] <mpt> maybe changing the domain too isn't necessary
[03:29] <mpt> cf. custhelp.com
[03:29] <LaserJock> we already have bugs.ubuntu.com already, although I don't think it's used/promoted much
[03:29] <kiko> how do they do it?
[03:30] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acusthelp.com
[03:31] <mpt> The various subdomain.custhelp.com sites are themed to look like the originating site
[03:31] <kiko> is the theming a paid service?
[03:31] <kiko> our URLs don't help here though
[03:32] <kiko> ubuntu.bugs.launchpad.net
[03:32] <mpt> The whole thing is a paid service, I don't know whether theming is extra
[03:32] <kiko> ubuntu.bugs.edge.launchpad.net
[03:32] <LaserJock> oh man
[03:32] <mpt> kiko, why do our URLs matter for this purpose?
[03:32] <mpt> All the page needs to know is what layer it's in, right?
[03:33] <kiko> uhm, yes
[03:33] <kiko> it doesn't matter internally
[03:33] <kiko> but to the end-user it does
[03:33] <mpt> URLs are overrated
[03:33] <LaserJock> *choke*
[03:33] <kiko> was that you choking mpt there LaserJock?
[03:33] <LaserJock> yes
[03:34] <LaserJock> that's the only way many people find LP usable :-)
[03:34] <kiko> okay because I felt like that too
[03:34] <mpt> I mean, for the sort of people who ask for help
[03:34] <mpt> they often won't notice what domain they're on
[03:34] <kiko> making it inconsistent with the rest of the site is a disservice
[03:34] <ajmitch> launchpad=ubuntu, right?
[03:34] <kiko> answers
[03:34] <mpt> http://www.ok-cancel.com/archives/link/2004/09/google-answers-hci-phd-program.html
[03:34] <mpt> http://laze.net/fait/archive/2002/07/28/maurys_blooper.php
[03:34] <LaserJock> ajmitch: +1 ;-)
[03:35] <kiko> lol
[03:38] <mpt> Now
[03:38] <mpt> To get back to the original problem
[03:38] <mpt> I think that Launchpad appearing in the "Most active projects" list on answers.launchpad.net is something that doesn't really matter *to Launchpad users*
[03:39] <kiko> that I agree with
[03:39] <mpt> (especially since a large chunk of it is because of <http://launchpad.net/bugs/gbcw>)
[03:39] <kiko> file a bug to nuke it out of the list
[03:39] <mpt> but that its presence there *may* be contributing to people asking Ubuntu questions there by mistake
[03:39] <mpt> so it's worth trying
[03:39] <Fujitsu> Wasn't gbcw meant to be fixed with 1.1.7?
[03:39] <kiko> mpt, now fixed!
[03:39] <mpt> yay
[03:39] <kiko> it's fixed on edge
[03:40] <kiko> what does gbcw mean?
[03:40] <mpt> ubotu, you don't do bug nicknames?
[03:40] <Fujitsu> Do you not query people on why they file answers on the wrong project?
[03:40] <Fujitsu> bug #gbcw
[03:40] <mpt> Fujitsu, we do for bugs, not for answers
[03:40] <Fujitsu> Aw.
[03:40] <kiko> I do for answers
[03:40] <mpt> kiko, "Goodbye Cruel World"
[03:40] <mpt> http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Gbcw
[03:40] <kiko> I get back very nonsensical answers
[03:41] <kiko> I'm new to this computer thing
[03:41] <kiko> etc
[03:41] <ajmitch> there'll always be people with minimal clue around
[04:00] <mpt> Why aren't new bug reports being announced here any more?
[04:00] <ubotu> New bug: #130784 in launchpad-answers "Many people ask Ubuntu questions in the Launchpad project" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130784
[04:01] <jjesse> that was just reported :)
[04:06] <mpt> ubotu, you're trying to make fun of me, aren't you
[04:06] <jjesse> :)
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 44 in rosetta "Translations should be searchable" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[04:16] <ubotu> New bug: #130785 in malone "Can not view a bug that is a duplicate of a private bug" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130785
[04:25] <kiko-zzz> mpt, danilo's getting there with fti
[04:25] <kiko-zzz> he surprised me about it last week
[04:25] <kiko-zzz> so let's see
[04:25] <kiko-zzz> time to catch the Zs
[04:25] <kiko-zzz> laters
[07:00] <ubotu> New bug: #130801 in launchpad "bug status piechart layout is poor" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130801
[07:01] <mpt> duplicate
[08:05] <BjornT> lifeless: reviewer meeting?
[08:10] <lifeless> doh
[08:10] <lifeless> yes
[08:10] <lifeless> was on the phone to dell
[08:10] <lifeless> reviewer meeting now
[08:10] <lifeless> thumper: ping
[08:10] <lifeless> jamesh: ping
[08:10] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[08:10] <jamesh> pong
[08:10] <spiv> pong
[08:12] <lifeless>  * Roll call
[08:12] <lifeless>  * Next meeting
[08:12] <lifeless>  * Queue status.
[08:12] <thumper> [pmg
[08:12] <thumper> pong
[08:13] <lifeless> so, next tuesday again?
[08:13] <spiv> Suits me.
[08:14] <thumper> ok
[08:15] <lifeless> queue status
[08:15] <lifeless> 22 open reviews
[08:15] <lifeless> (why am I counting these by hand ?)
[08:16] <thumper> habit?
[08:16] <lifeless> 9 over the 2 day target
[08:16] <lifeless> jamesh: ?
[08:16] <spiv> I have almost finished my late review.
[08:16] <spiv> It'll probably be done by the time this meeting is over ;)
[08:16] <jamesh> gar.  I forgot to follow up on that one
[08:17] <jamesh> basically just a decision on what to do about the test in the branch
[08:17] <lifeless> the other offenders are not here
[08:17] <lifeless> BjornT: please kick kiko at the .eu meeting
[08:17] <lifeless> 1/2 the reviews are his
[08:18] <lifeless> though I suspect a certain amount of 'state not changed' is at issue here
[08:18] <BjornT> lifeless: sure. i think he actually reviewed those branches yesterday
[08:18] <lifeless> 18  11  0  kiko  mwh/launchpad/code-import-views-cleanup
[08:18] <lifeless> note the 'last commit' of 0
[08:21] <lifeless> so what about the other reviews
[08:21] <lifeless> is the review load ok?
[08:22] <thumper> I'm going graham's one now
[08:22] <thumper> load is ok for me
[08:22] <BjornT> i think the load is ok
[08:22] <thumper> next week will be more interesting though
[08:23] <lifeless> ok
[08:23] <lifeless> anything more on the queue?
[08:24] <lifeless> thats a no
[08:24] <lifeless>  * pr_notify
[08:24] <lifeless> this is bac's tool to diff stuff from PendingReviews
[08:24] <lifeless> anyone played with it? I'm curious how its better than jamesh's pending-reviews page - it seems to me that james' script is better suited to send task orientated emails, and that bac's thing doesn't need to exist.
[08:25] <thumper> I have no idea what bac's thing is
[08:25] <BjornT> yeah. i'd rather get a daily e-mail, listing the branches in my queue
[08:25] <lifeless>  * A new tool for watching your PendingReviews queue.  Simply subscribing to PendingReviews generates too much noise and doesn't provide enough context.  I've written a cronscript to fetch the PendingReviews page periodically and email an HTML-based diff of the changes ''to a specific reviewer's queue'' when they occur.  Statik has test-driven it and it seems to be working pretty well.  It can be found at: bzr+ssh://devpad.canonical
[08:25] <BjornT> i haven't looked at bac's script, though
[08:26] <thumper> I just look at the page each morning
[08:26] <lifeless> BjornT: can you chat with bac then, get a good use case style 'what it is about' from the .eu meeting?
[08:27] <jamesh> it probably wouldn't be too difficult to get pending-reviews to write out a journal
[08:27] <BjornT> lifeless: yes, i'll talk to him.
[08:27] <lifeless> jamesh: or per-reviewer rss feeds
[08:27] <jamesh> the journal could then be processed to emails or rss feeds
[08:27] <lifeless> jamesh: right
[08:28] <lifeless>  * other business ?
[08:28] <lifeless> 111
[08:28] <lifeless> 110
[08:28] <lifeless> 101
[08:28] <lifeless> 011
[08:28] <lifeless> 010
[08:28] <lifeless> 001
[08:28] <lifeless> 000
[08:28] <lifeless> Thanks for attending
[08:28] <jamesh> probably record (branch_url, state, assignee, has_conflicts, is_merged) and a date for the entry
[08:39] <Spads> lifeless: you left out 4
[09:18] <mwh> lifeless: the 'last commit' of 0 was conflict resolution
[09:36] <BjornT> mpt: i'm going to fix bug 94321 to use the bug address instead of the bug reporter in the From field, for 'you have been subscribed' notifications. do you have any opinions on what to put as the 'name'?
[09:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 94321 in malone "status change email has wrong 'From'" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94321 - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
[09:37] <BjornT> mpt: e.g., "From: Bug 42 in Launchpad<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:45] <Fujitsu> BjornT: Putting the bug number the From sounds wrong, as it's never done otherwise. `Launchpad Bug Tracker', perhaps?
[09:45] <Fujitsu> *bug number in the
[09:51] <carlos> morning
[09:51] <BjornT> Fujitsu: yeah, i agree. i'm leaning towards using 'Launchpad Bug Tracker', actually, but wanted to hear what mpt thinks it should say.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> Hm, probably `Launchpad Bugs' is more standard, but mpt's ideas are likely better.
[10:56] <mpt> Oh, the pressure
[10:58] <mpt> BjornT, I'd choose "Launchpad Bugs", but I don't care strongly about it
[11:31] <taa> hi
[11:59] <carlos_> taa: hi
[12:00] <taa> carlos_ hi
[12:07] <mwhudson> don't think so
[12:07] <Hobbsee> darn
[12:08] <mwhudson> not sure though!
[12:08] <spiv> I don't think so either, but you could presumably test that theory on staging.launchpad.net.
[12:09] <Hobbsee> nope, it doesnt
[01:37] <sanju_baba> hi all
[03:02] <viridari> I was just chatting with bac about Launchpad.  I'm a sysadmin at a big corp and currently operate two distinct GForge environments with over 2,000 hosted projects between them.  GForge is honestly a bit of a kluge, and the licensing changes coming up in v5 make it worth looking into other options (if indeed Launchpad is to be released as a FOSS project at some point)
[03:03] <viridari> is it pretty modular underneath?  for example, I've got a little over 2,000 hosted projects right now and the vast majority of those are cvs-based.  A subset of the projects are svn.  Nobody has really asked for bzr or git, etc, yet.
[03:03] <viridari> the other two key things that jump out for me would be mailing list and wiki integration
[03:06] <Odd_Bloke> viridari: https://launchpad.net/faq has an answer regarding the release as a FOSS project.
[03:57] <zul_> Hi is it possible to merge zulcss and zulcss-ubuntu accounts in launchpad?
[04:00] <Hobbsee> zul_: yes.  do you have email access to the zulcss-ubuntu account?
[04:55] <ubotu> New bug: #130878 in rosetta "Remove English ('en') from the 'Make suggestions from'" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130878
[05:15] <ubotu> New bug: #130883 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot easily import from non-trunk subversion" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130883
[06:25] <ubotu> New bug: #130901 in launchpad "Oops pruner script should delete non-referenced NotFound oops older than a week." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130901
[06:30] <ubotu> New bug: #130902 in malone "X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale should have Reporter" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130902
[06:46] <ubotu> New bug: #130905 in malone "Launchpad Bugs and Answers should share code for contact management" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130905
[08:53] <Markon> hi everyone
[08:56] <shirish> hi all, by looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building one can see which packages are building, is there anyway to know which packages are incoming, let's say for gutsy?
[08:57] <Markon> Does xml2po convert .html files to .po ?
[08:58] <mpt> danilos, ^^
[08:58] <mpt> cprov, ^^^
[08:59] <mpt> oh wait, shirish, I know the answer to your question myself
[08:59] <danilos> Markon: it only works with XML files, and thus, with XHTML files, if you use a proper mode (-m xhtml), which is what I wrote in an answer
[08:59] <mpt> shirish, from the menu choose "Needs building", then click Update
[08:59] <mpt> those are the incoming packages
[09:00] <Markon> danilos: i've tried it, but it doesn't work :(
[09:01] <shirish> mpt: and I guess those which have a lower count they are built first?
[09:01] <danilos> Markon: try passing files through "xmllint --html --xmlout" first
[09:01] <mpt> shirish, I don't know what the count means
[09:01] <Markon> ok
[09:02] <mpt> shirish, I don't know what the count means
[09:02] <mpt> I would have thought that the packages will be built in the order they appear in the list
[09:02] <mpt> but I could be wrong
[09:02] <shirish> sorry for that, I meant count as in 7000 as given for openoffice.org
[09:02] <mpt> yes, I see the numbers you're referring to
[09:02] <mpt> I don't know what they are
[09:03] <mpt> although
[09:03] <mpt> they seem to be listed in descending order anyway
[09:03] <shirish> mpt: I read somewhere the nos. also have significance
[09:03] <mpt> so maybe we're both right :-)
[09:03] <mpt> I'll report a bug
[09:03] <shirish> I hope so, I'm looking so forward to openoffice.org being built & sent down
[09:03] <danilos> Markon: however, note that you'll also be interested in getting translations back, so before you have people translate PO files, make sure you know how to create translated documents first... and using DocBook is a much better solution, imo
[09:04] <cprov> shirish: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds?build_state=pending
[09:05] <Markon> DocBook
[09:05] <mpt> cprov, what do the numbers mean?
[09:05] <mpt> are they priority?
[09:05] <cprov> shirish: the number is the "build score" and will result in the order the builds will be processed/built
[09:05] <shirish> cpov: from where did you get the build_state=pending
[09:06] <cprov> mpt: yes, it's sort of a 'priority'
[09:06] <shirish> cprov: so bigger the no. bigger the priority or vice-versa
[09:06] <Markon> Do you suggest me to translate this book in another way ?
[09:06] <jjesse> its' not in the drop down list
[09:06] <Markon> (not on lp )
[09:06] <mpt> jjesse, "Needs building"
[09:06] <jjesse> oh, was looking for "pending"
[09:06] <cprov> shirish: higher the score sooner it will get built.
[09:06] <shirish> Markon: shouldn't it be on the list, when we have needs building & other states there.
[09:07] <mpt> that would make more sense, too -- "Show builds that are: Needs building" isn't quite grammatical
[09:07] <mpt> (and "Show builds which are:", even less so:-)
[09:08] <Markon> shirish:  i don't understand..
[09:08] <Markon> :/
[09:08] <cprov> mpt: edge (RF) doesn't contain the broken sentence
[09:09] <shirish> Markon: I was mis-reading, now I know that state=pending and state=need building mean the same, I guess
[09:09] <mpt> cprov, good work
[09:09] <Markon> ok ok, but my question is there.
[09:10] <mpt> shirish, I don't think Markon particularly cares about builds :-)
[09:10] <mpt> Markon's talking about translations
[09:11] <shirish> The thing is cprov gave me the link to pending, and there is no pending there if I do th e link https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds?build_state=pending it defaults to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building
[09:11] <Markon> eheh
[09:12] <shirish> although do agree if pending is put instead of needs building, it sounds more accurate & I guess grammatically also correct.
[09:12] <shirish> mpt: if you have already filed a bug please lemme know, I wanna subscribe to it, if not, I'll do it if you're busy
[09:13] <mpt> shirish, bug 130934
[09:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130934 in soyuz "Pending builds have mysterious numbers" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130934
[09:15] <shirish> mpt: about changing the name in drop-down list from needs building to pending would also be under soyuz or some different thing?
[09:15] <ubotu> New bug: #130934 in soyuz "Pending builds have mysterious numbers" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130934
[09:16] <shirish> mpt: ?
[09:20] <kiko> shirish, under soyuz too. but what's wrong with needs building again?
[09:21] <shirish> kiko: look at all the other options given in the drop-down menu, they are no ambiguities & they give precise meaning
[09:21] <kiko> is needs building ambiguous?
[09:21] <shirish> kiko: 'peniding' IMO is less ambigious  then 'needs building'
[09:22] <kiko> in what way, shirish?
[09:22] <kiko> to me, pending is very ambiguous. pending what? approval? supervision? superseding? deletion?
[09:23] <shirish> I was going to say the same thing actually about 'needs building' , its like it needs building, is it waiting for some dependency or what?
[09:23] <shirish> that is also not clear.
[09:23] <kiko> it's /definitely/ clearer than just "pending". :)
[09:24] <kiko> I guess you're talking about the special case where it needs to build but is blocked on something /other/ than a free buildd?
[09:24] <shirish> kiko: nope, I mean in general, of course use-cases like that would exist
[09:25] <kiko> I'm really not convinced that pending is any improvement over "needs building".
[09:26] <cprov> neither am I
[09:26] <shirish> kiko: maybe somebody can come up with even a better term then both 'pending' and 'needs building' which is more precise & tells that its in the queue
[09:27] <cprov> shirish: the lack of help in those pages concerns me more than a possible ambiguity in 'needs building'
[09:28] <kiko> shirish, but can you explain in what cases are you confused when the package is in "needs building"?
[09:28] <kiko> because to me it's pretty straightforward. the package is uploaded and is still in need of building.
[09:28] <kiko> "Not yet built"?
[09:28] <kiko> "Waiting to build"?
[09:30] <shirish> kiko: as a general user who is looking for packages to know where his favorite packages are in queue wouldn't necessary be looking into 'needs building' he would be most probably looking for something saying either 'in queue' or something similar to that , although the term may mean different things to different people
[09:31] <kiko> wouldn't you just search based on the package name?
[09:31] <kiko> instead of try and figure out in what state it was in?
[09:32] <shirish> kiko: not when things are broken and somebody tells you that a certain release is going to fix that release
[09:32] <shirish> and gutsy-changes tells you its on its way
[09:32] <kiko> I think you'd still search based on the package name, possibly including version
[09:32] <kiko> it just doesn't make sense to look for it any other way
[09:33] <cprov> to not mention the "all states" option that can be combined with name filter to produce the best result
[09:35] <kiko> maybe the UI makes that hard to guess
[09:35] <kiko> shirish, what page did you go to?
[09:35] <shirish> cprov: actually have been looking at that, btw is there any page where one can find any or all info. on the 10-12 machines which you guys are building on
[09:35] <cprov> but it's quite rare to get in the Build Browser page before getting in the SourcePackage page, IMHO
[09:35] <cprov> https://launchpad.net/+builds
[09:36] <shirish> kiko: actually somebody else had pointed out this https://launchpad.net/+builds in the day earlier to check incoming packages
[09:40] <shirish> its actually pretty interesting to know that there are 10-12 machines to build packages, some of them sparc, some of them i386-based machines & some AMD64 & so on. some more technical stuff about each of these machines would have made it more interesting.
[09:40] <shirish> it/the machines more interesting as well as informative
[09:41] <kiko> I'm not sure we even know a lot about them, though ;-) some are Xen-hosted I believe.
[09:41] <kiko> that's definitely true for the PPA buildds.
[09:41] <shirish> kiko: didn't know about that
[09:41] <kiko> let me see
[09:42] <kiko> yeah, shirish, you're right -- the descriptions are pretty lame.
[09:42] <shirish> kiko: an interesting tit-bit for you, the sparc build for openoffice.org took something like 6 minutes while the i386 has taken more than 38 minutes & its still building.
[09:43] <kiko> shirish, hmmm. really?
[09:43] <shirish> looking back on the openoffice.org builds some took 10-14 hrs. or even more.
[09:43] <kiko> doko, does OOO really take like 6 times longer on i386?
[09:43] <shirish> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/2.3.0~src680m224-1ubuntu1/+build/374234
[09:43] <shirish> that's the sparc one I believe
[09:44] <shirish> kiko: it might be that the one on which this one was done was pretty new/faster or something for even the older version of sparc took something like 11 hrs.
[09:45] <shirish> kiko: oops, that was not sparc which I spoke about it was IA64, apologies
[09:45] <kiko> IA64? what's IA64? ;)
[09:46] <shirish> I know its an architecture, don't know much about it though
[09:47] <kiko> I was joking -- it's mostly a fringe architecture.
[09:48] <cprov> shirish: if you look in the ia64 buildlog you will see that only 2 c++ files were compiled, I wonder why are they architecture dependent.
[09:48] <shirish> kiko: yup, still looked for it, its intel's stuff for enterprise, but do agree its a fringe architecture
[09:49] <cprov> but anyway (let me get back to my job)
[09:50] <shirish> cprov: no knowledge of building other than .configure, make & make install but its nice to know that there are logs so people could take a look at.
[09:51] <ubotu> New bug: #130944 in malone "Select a person or team choices could be more helpful" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130944
[09:53] <Markon> danilos:  i don't find the way to convert the .html :(
[09:53] <shirish> interesting bug ^ ^
[10:22] <doko> kiko: yes, extracting and converting the language data ;-P *hint* *hint*
[10:23] <kiko> heh
[10:24] <Gwaihir> just a quick question: do the ddtp translations from launchpad get included with Ubuntu?
[10:27] <doko> kiko, oh ia64, that just builds one -dev package, not OOo
[10:28] <kiko> Gwaihir, AIUI they do, yes
[10:31] <Gwaihir> kiko: I'm not that sure... but we will hae to wait 'till next release!
[10:31] <Gwaihir> s/hae/have
[10:34] <kiko> Gwaihir, maybe pitti knows
[10:35] <Gwaihir> maybe i'll write him an email!
[10:35] <Gwaihir> thx
[10:51] <Markon> danilos:  i've found this: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~ppadala/projects/tidy/#download
[10:52] <Markon> Do you think it can be useful ?
[10:52] <mtaylor> any word on when the delete button is going on the ppa?


[01:04] <stgraber> bryce: do you know of cases where glxinfo is extremely slow ?
[01:04] <stgraber> like a few mins to run
[01:04] <bryce> stgraber: glxinfo?  hmm
[01:05] <bryce> in general glx can be slow to run if software rendering is enabled, but even there glxinfo should be quick
[01:05] <stgraber> yeah, it's making the session open time to go up to a few minutes because compiz is calling glxinfo a few times
[01:05] <bryce> no, this is not a bug I've run across so far
[01:05] <bryce> did you find any bugs about it in LP?
[01:05] <superm1> that sounds like something that might happen with a half installed -fglrx?
[01:05] <stgraber> that's on an Intel classmate, I believe you're familiar with the hardware ? (a few person at Canonical got one at UDS-Boston)
[01:05] <superm1> oh nvm
[01:05] <stgraber> that's with 100% intel hardware :)
[01:06] <bryce> stgraber: no I've not touched the classmate myself
[01:10] <stgraber> hmm, I guess I just found the issue, not sure if it's a bug actually.
[01:10] <stgraber> glxinfo doesn't work if the current vt isn't X
[01:10] <stgraber> so having X start in background, glxinfo doesn't work until I switch to vt7
[01:23]  * stgraber notices that the classmate doesn't have a pause/sysrq key ...
[05:06] <tjaalton> bryce: don't know if tseliot is working on it
[05:12] <tjaalton> but we're an "all-nvidia" shop :( so I'd be interested in seeing a new bugfix release..
[05:12] <tjaalton> (we = HUT)
[05:21] <bryce_> tjaalton: ok, well it's been quite a while since I did a -nvidia release.  I'd be game to give it a go, though.
[05:46] <tjaalton> bryce_: yeah, I'm willing to try as well
[05:46] <tjaalton> got a 8600GT to try it on
[05:47] <tjaalton> but first the couple of input drivers..
[07:04] <tjaalton> bryce_: acecad, aiptek, fpit are now in experimental, elographics, penmount, void pushed to git and waiting for an upload
[07:04] <bryce_> excellent
[07:16] <tjaalton> uploaded mesa with the texture bump to my ppa
[07:16] <tjaalton> +size
[07:21] <bryce_> nice
[09:22]  * bryce swats a couple more -intel bugs
[10:33] <tormod> bryce: re your ML post, I think "taking on tasks" scares everybody to silence :)
[10:35] <bryce> it's ok, if no one volunteers I have a fallback plan for 8xx.  It's just pretty nasty.  Want to give 8xx users a chance to help grind grain before I start taking the bread away from them.  ;-)
[10:38] <tormod> tjaalton: maybe you can consider 324854 (uxa) for your mesa ppa
[11:04] <tjaalton> tormod: seems a bit invasive
[11:04] <tjaalton> and since uxa is not used by default..
[11:04] <tjaalton> what's the commit-id?
[11:05] <tjaalton> nevermind, got it
[11:06] <tormod> ok. if it only would touch uxa code it wouldn't be so bad, but I am not able to judge from the patch
[11:07] <Ng> tormod: thanks for doing the xorg-edgers PPA, it's very handy :)
[11:09] <tormod> Ng: you're welcome :) hope I will get some co-uploaders some time
[11:10] <Ng> tormod: do you happen to know offhand how huge the difference is between -intel 2.6.3 and 2.6.99/git?
[11:10] <tjaalton> tormod: well, looks like it should affect only DRI2, which means EXA users are safe
[11:11] <Ng> tormod: I promised bryce I'd see if I could figure out what's changed between jaunty's package and yours that makes my 965 much nicer, but if it's going to be thousands of lines of diff then I'm probably going to fail ;)
[11:11] <tormod> Ng: git diff would tell you, but yes, it is quite a lot of code
[11:11] <tjaalton> git bisect is your friend
[11:12] <tormod> yes that should actually be efficient here
[11:12]  * Ng should read up about that
[11:14] <mifritscher> hi
[11:16] <Ng> ohhhh, nice, bisect does the middle-point searching thing
[11:17]  * Ng wonders if it'll be happy to go backwards though. the kernel.org docs are mostly about "current is broken, current-20 worked, find where it broke", where I need to work out where's it's fixed between 2.6.3 and 2.6.99
[11:18] <tjaalton> sure will
[11:18] <Ng> win :)
[11:29] <Ng> so with my fresh checkout of git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel how would I figure out which commit corresponds to 2.6.3?
[11:32] <Ng> aha, there's a tag
[11:33] <bryce> ok, 18hrs of bug work is enough for one day.  cya tomorrow.
[11:33] <bryce> %-P
[11:34] <tjaalton> heh :)
[11:41] <mifritscher> hi
[11:41] <Ng> so 2.6.3 seems to be about 3 months ago
[11:42] <Ng> which works out to 8k5 lines of diff ;)
[11:43] <mifritscher> yust tested the 2.6.99 on  https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers with a g965
[11:43] <mifritscher> all works well, but the 3dmark01
[11:43] <mifritscher> still stable, but extrme, simialiar aartefacts on all tests (old objects which got moved are still there)
[11:43] <mifritscher> Im running9.04
[11:43] <Ng> mifritscher: out of interest, is the jaunty intel driver working ok for you?
[11:44] <mifritscher> yes
[11:44] <mifritscher> but the 2.6.3 has a funny dependencie on pae
[11:44] <mifritscher> uxa runs only without pae, exa DOES need pea *G*
[11:44] <mifritscher> (with 4 GB ram)
[11:45] <mifritscher> didn't try that with 2.6.99 again, I've running it without pae + uxa
[11:46] <Ng> I only have 2GB of RAM, I'm just trying to work out why 3d stuff is a bit slow for me, but not for everyone :)
[11:46] <Ng> (works fine with the edgers PPA, but like you I see some artifacts, and I've had a couple of X hangs)
[11:47] <mifritscher> hmm, 3dmark01 gave me 1280 points on 2.6.3 and 1484 points on 2.6.99
[11:47] <mifritscher> on VIsta I got 3783
[11:47] <mifritscher> trac gets ca. 20 fps (and no artefacts)
[11:48] <mifritscher> trying 2003 *G*
[11:48] <Ng> is 3dmark available freely for linux? it might help my case if I can produce objective numbers rather than subjective workspace-flipping tests
[11:49] <mifritscher> killed X right after starting the program (not the acutal test)
[11:51] <Ng> would we expect 2.6.3 to work with a snapshot of libdrm? I just realised that both of those will have been replaced by the edgers PPA so the fix I need could be in either. I know it can't be mesa because I tried tjaalton's 2.4 packages and there was no change
[11:51] <mifritscher> backtrace: http://rafb.net/p/i3S8KQ46.html
[11:55] <mifritscher> now it starts, but it is missind DXT1 and DXT3 texture compression
[11:55] <mifritscher> (as with the old driver)
[12:22] <tormod> Ng: newer libdrm should be fine for intel 2.6.3
[12:25] <mifritscher> tormod, you are one of the maintainers of https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa, right?
[12:25] <tormod> mifritscher: de facto the only one
[12:25] <mifritscher> is the artefacts problem already known or do you need more details?
[12:25] <mifritscher> ah ;)
[12:26] <tormod> you have to check upstream. that's the point of this PPA :)
[12:27] <mifritscher> #intel-gfx is sort of dead :-/
[12:28] <tormod> it's the time of day
[12:28] <tormod> check the bug tracker as well
[12:30] <mifritscher> didn't found anything
[12:30] <mifritscher> ( http://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Drivers%2FDRI%2Fi965 )
[12:32] <mifritscher> and for the pae I found only http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17993
[12:33] <mifritscher> but for me it is the other way around: I actually need pae to use exa ;-)
[12:33] <mifritscher> (for uxa, I must not use pae)
[15:37] <BUGabundo> bryce ping
[15:38] <BUGabundo> what about intel 815? is there a master bug for it?
[15:39] <jcristau> the i815 driver hasn't changed in years afaik
[15:39] <thiebaude> i hope someone might help me, i cant log into gnome, but only fluxbox
[15:39] <thiebaude> i have the i815
[15:39] <hyperair> thiebaude: wrong channel
[15:39] <BUGabundo> hyperair: actually I asked him to come here
[15:39] <hyperair> eh?
[15:39] <thiebaude> BUGabundo sent me over here
[15:39] <BUGabundo> with all this intel probs on 8x5
[15:40] <hyperair> well yeah but fluxbox works
[15:40] <hyperair> obviously X starts
[15:40] <jcristau> BUGabundo: 810 is completely separate
[15:40] <thiebaude> i thought i had the bug 304871
[15:40] <thiebaude> its halfway fixed
[15:40] <BUGabundo> thiebaude: can you try to logout and select Safe Gnome Session?
[15:40] <jcristau> thiebaude: if your chip is a 810/815, then that bug is irrelevant
[15:40] <thiebaude> ok thanks again BUGabundo
[15:41]  * BUGabundo goes back to +1
[15:41] <thiebaude> see you
[15:58] <BUGabundo> guys sorry for the noise
[15:58] <BUGabundo> but thiebaude is reproducing the bug
[15:58] <BUGabundo> of X freezing a few secs after login
[15:59] <BUGabundo> with a 815... it looks pretty much like all other 8x5
[15:59] <BUGabundo> what can he do to debug it?
[15:59] <jcristau> BUGabundo: i already told you, 815 is not like all other 8xx...
[16:00] <BUGabundo> but symptoms are very much the same
[16:00] <BUGabundo> on gnome , at least
[16:03] <thiebaude> i can only get into fluxbox
[17:51] <mnemo> will mesa 7.4 be included in time for the testday tomorrow?
[18:30] <Ng> bryce: how much will I be mocked if I suggest rolling jaunty back to Intrepid's intel driver? :D
[18:30] <Ng> is such a thing even possible?
[18:30] <Ng> I fully appreciate that my view of the driver is very small and I may be missing wider issues, but I've yet to encounter anyone with an improved experience, but I am encountering lots of regressed ones
[18:31] <Ng> where "lots" is an unquantified value
[18:32] <Ng> so I just thought I'd throw the idea out there
[18:32] <jcristau> you'd probably have to revert the kernel, too...
[18:33] <Ng> jcristau: as in, patches we've applied to the kernel? or does intel's 2.4.x simply not work on a 2.6.28 kernel?
[18:34] <Ng> (I really wish they wouldn't have release numbers that are so confusingly similar to kernel ones ;)
[18:36] <jcristau> as in, "it worked better in intrepid" is not only related to the intel ddx, that's only one component
[18:38] <jcristau> so 2.4.x with 2.6.28 might work, but it might not work better than what you have right now, and it is probably not as tested
[18:38] <jcristau> so i'm just saying it's hard to know beforehand what will work best :)
[18:39] <Ng> ok, these are good points :)
[18:39] <Ng> I have the impression that we are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place until we are fully in the land of UXA and KMS!
[18:40] <Ng> which can only really be Intel's fault, imho
[18:40] <jcristau> i get the feeling we're between a rock and a hard place until we are until the next rock and the next hard place :/
[18:41] <jcristau> s/until/between/2
[18:43] <Ng> heh
[18:44] <Ng> surely after we're all using DRI2 and UXA and KMS there's no more big architecture stuff and Intel will actually fix bugs? :)
[18:44] <Ng> they seem to have been bug fixing a lot recenlt
[18:51] <bryce> Ng: well, back when we were on XAA and Intel was pushing EXA I remember thinking, "Once we're fully in the land of EXA, Intel will fix all their bugs, and it will be all milk and honey after that."
[18:52] <bryce> so I disoptimistically have to agree with jcristau
[18:52] <bryce> Ng: also even if reverting to the Intrepid driver were feasible, it would also result in losing some hardware support for newer hardware
[19:02] <Ng> bryce: you're filling me with confidence here, man ;)
[19:03] <Ng> bryce: if you're on -platform you will shortly get a horrific braindump from me of what I'm seeing and trying to do about it. It's a mess of information which I apologise for, I just wanted to braindump everything I have about it in the hopes that something good can come from it!
[19:04] <bryce> I unsubbed from platform when I moved to the desktop team
[19:05] <bryce> so you might cc ubuntu-x@ if you think it's worth me reading
[19:05] <Ng> ah right, so everyone on platform won't care. go me ;)
[19:08] <Ng> sent to -x :)
[19:08] <bryce> ok, bating breath and waiting
[19:09] <Ng> I really should subscribe to -x
[19:09] <bryce> yep
[19:11] <Ng> hah, especially since that mailman reply was not "lala wait for moderation", but "go away" ;)
[19:11]  * Ng subscribes and resends
[19:11] <bryce> heh
[19:43] <tjaalton> Ng: the mesa version on my ppa is 7.4 ;)
[19:43] <tjaalton> not 4.3
[21:11] <mnemo> bryce, tjaalton: what is the mesa 7.4 ETA right now? also, I heard a rumor that EXA perf might be fixed by some patch that disables GEM, have you heard that as well?
[21:46] <Ng> tjaalton: doh, I fail ;)
[21:57] <LLStarks> ...
[21:57] <bryce> mnemo: tjaalton has put 7.4 in his ppa.  I think he is awaiting sufficient tester feedback before putting it in
[21:58] <LLStarks> bryce.
[21:58] <LLStarks> i
[21:59] <LLStarks> i'm having trouble with my intel git compiles
[21:59] <LLStarks> i have all the deps and followed directions, but x breaks.
[21:59] <albert23> mnemo: switching of gem plus an additional patch on -intel indeed fixed performance with I945 for me.
[21:59] <albert23> mnemo: debdiff http://paste.ubuntu.com/142337/
[22:00] <albert23> patch 203 was accepted upstream 2 days ago
[22:01] <bryce> LLStarks: sympathies
[22:01] <LLStarks> any advice?
[22:01] <bryce> albert23: bug# ?
[22:02] <albert23> bryce: freedesktop bug 20797
[22:03] <bryce> LLStarks: I recommend nuking from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
[22:03] <LLStarks> ...wut?
[22:03] <bryce> albert23: thanks
[22:03] <albert23> bryce: performance on 945 is 303011
[22:04] <bryce> LLStarks: oh you mean advice on your build issue?  you didn't show any details so I can't give any advice.  I do advocate nuking from orbit as a general solution to random build problems though.  It helps.
[22:05] <LLStarks> there's no problem with the actual build.
[22:05] <LLStarks> i just can't get the binaries to start x.
[22:06] <bryce> albert23: thanks for the performance bug; is there also a corresponding launchpad bug (so I can set up subscriptions and such)
[22:07] <bryce> LLStarks: you can't find the binaries?
[22:07] <albert23> bryce: no, I didn't consider it an Ubuntu bug, as jaunty does have gem
[22:07] <albert23> that patch only helps if you switch of gem
[22:07] <LLStarks> no. they just won't start x when i restart.
[22:08] <LLStarks> they are pathed to /usr
[22:08] <bryce> LLStarks: try http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/.
[22:10] <bryce> albert23: give that we're not using uxa, I wonder if it hurts anything to turn off gem as well
[22:11] <albert23> bryce: see the debdiff. UXA still works :-)
[22:11] <bryce> hmm, I thought gem was a prerequisite for UXA
[22:12] <albert23> bryce if (pI830->accel == ACCEL_EXA is the trick
[22:12] <albert23> see the pastebin
[22:12] <LLStarks> does the debdiff work with the 2.6.99 ppa packages?
[22:13] <LLStarks> also, does the patch negate the need for anholt's pending a17 fix?
[22:13] <albert23> bryce: my concern would be that the fake bufmgr code hasn't been tested in jaunty
[22:14]  * bryce nods
[22:16] <albert23> LLStarks: the debdiff has two parts. 1 switch of gem, 2 the TILE_NONE fix
[22:17] <albert23> LLStarks: the a17 fix should fix gem, so you don't need the first part anymore
[22:17] <LLStarks> i see.
[22:17] <LLStarks> so the patch right now is just a stop gap?
[22:17] <albert23> for me it is
[22:18] <albert23> and I am really not sure if it would be good for jaunty, given where we are in the release cycle
[22:24] <LLStarks> i severely doubt a performance patch would be denied a freeze exemption
[22:29] <albert23> LLStarks: btw, latest intel from git needs libdrm 2.4.6 and kernel 2.6.29
[22:30] <LLStarks> i knew  about 2.4.6
[22:30] <albert23> I needed a patch to build with kernel headers from 2.6.28 and it still only runs on 2.6.29 kernel
[22:30] <LLStarks> but not the kernel
[22:34] <LLStarks> i do have a few mainline and self-built 2.6.29 kernels.
[22:34] <LLStarks> i don't think i got intel to work with those either.
[22:45] <LLStarks> hi.
[22:46] <LLStarks> i just uploaded some photos for my lvds bug: freedesktop bug 20951
[22:46] <LLStarks> hopefully they are helpful


[01:24] <jjido> I am looking to get WPA working on my laptop, should I keep the conversation on #ubuntu? (per channel title)
[02:47] <mmdski> does anyone have any thoughts on the system 76 laptops?
[02:57] <pwnguin> you'd think there'd be at least one report on the wiki about them
[02:58] <pwnguin> but afaik, they're rebranded items
[02:59] <mmdski> i've been looking, but i havn't seen much
[02:59] <mmdski> i mean, in the forums and wiki
[03:06] <mmdski> is rebranded bad for any certain reason?
[03:57] <pwnguin> well, i'd imagine they'r more expensive
[03:57] <pwnguin> than direct from manufacturer
[08:38] <Patriot> hi all
[09:24] <cvh_le> Anyone having upgraded from DD to Feisty on a laptop lately (i.e. a lenovo/ibm thinkpad)
[09:41] <cvh_le> leave
[10:31] <rkazak> just finished installing kubuntu and ubuntu on my hp zd7000 - all went well....