[12:03] <mdz> ogra: oh, I thought youo had tested the package; you just created the symlinks then
[12:03] <ogra> yep...
[12:04] <mdz> never mind; I've got it
[12:04] <ogra> but i can build it, no problem
[12:04] <ogra> just takes time...
[12:06] <mdz> ogra: don't worry about it; it's done
[12:06] <ogra> oki
[12:25] <dholbach> hi
[12:26] <mdke> dholbach, hi
[12:26] <mdke> dholbach, how did you subscribe to the whole wiki? out of curiosity
[12:26] <dholbach> mdke: hey matt :)
[12:26] <dholbach> .* :)
[12:26] <mdke> you clever thing
[12:26] <mdke> hmm
[12:26] <mdke> that is what thom said, but i tried it and it didn't work
[12:26] <mdke> oh well
[12:26] <dholbach> let me have a 2nd look
[12:27] <dholbach> i have .* and in the next line * as well
[12:27] <dholbach> dunno which of them works ;)
[12:27] <mdke> hmm
[12:28] <mdke> i tried em both, maybe I wasn't patient enough
[12:28] <mdke> anyway thanks
[12:28] <mdke> RecentPages is so good that i won't do it, but I was interested in how you achieved it ;)
[12:29] <dholbach> mdke: you have them both? .* and * ?
[12:29] <mdke> nah i tried one at a time
[12:30] <mdke> dholbach, don't worry
[12:30] <mdke> no biggie
[01:10] <dholbach> good night everyone, i'm off to bed
[01:10] <mdke> night
[01:23] <dilinger> jbailey: ping
[01:56] <jbailey> dilinger: pong
[02:01] <dilinger> jbailey: differing behavior between posh and bash is driving me insane :(
[02:06] <jbailey> dilinger: Ugh.  I thought you had generally been hacking with dash, since it was more consistant and leaving me to make posh happy?
[02:06] <dilinger> jbailey: i don't remember, i thought it was the other way around :)
[02:07] <dilinger> either way, i think there's enough of a disparty amongst the shells that i'm better off just picking a shell, making it work, and later on we can make other shells work
[02:07] <dilinger> i'm leaning towards picking posh (or dash).. whichever is better maintained, i suppose
[02:07] <jbailey> Right.  I think ideally that shell is not bash, since that'll be the worst to reduce from.
[02:07] <dilinger> should be easier to go from a posix shell to bash, rather than the other way around
[02:07] <jbailey> =)
[02:08] <jbailey> Chuck in #d-d is upstream for posh, and is quite willing to fix things that are wrong.
[02:08] <jbailey> I suspect dash is under maintained.
[02:09] <jbailey> Err.
[02:09] <jbailey> Clint
[02:09] <jbailey> not Chuck
[02:09] <dilinger> but first, i shall upgrade my sid laptop, and watch how wonderfully things break!
[02:10] <jbailey> Enjoy! =)
[02:30] <zul> jbailey: how sweet...you talk about me when im not here :)
[02:42] <jbailey> zul: Well, almost. =)
[02:59] <infinity> Riddell : Still around?
[03:45] <infinity> Hrm... "but yes", "but no"... I wonder if my conversational constructs were heavily influenced by speaking french for the first 14 years of my life...
[03:45] <infinity> -EWIN
[03:46] <robertj> infinity: that's why if I have kids I will never allow them to watch the little red balloon
[04:10] <calc> is xterm deprecated? it depends on libxaw8 which seems to no longer be shipped in breezy
[04:11] <infinity> It just needs to be broken out and rebuilt against a libxaw that still ships.
[04:11] <infinity> It looks like the "upload a package" part of "break it out" didn't happen yet, that's all.
[04:11] <infinity> (This is merely a guess, but a rather plausible one, based on the state of X in breezy currently)
[04:12] <calc> ok
[04:13] <calc> also i noticed its a bit strange since apt-cache/dselect still thinks xterm is available
[04:13] <calc> but it shouldn't be should it?
[04:13] <calc> since a newer xorg has been uploaded and should be overriding those old -10 packages
[04:14] <calc> i guess it could be a difference in how the packages file is generated between debian and ubuntu
[04:14] <calc> istr old packages that should no longer exist being reaped in debian
[04:18] <infinity> They are reaped in Debian and Ubuntu, but it's a manual process.
[04:18] <infinity> The reaping script (and human interpretation thereof) needs to be done, that's all.
[04:25] <robertj> xterm is needed for the gdm session fallback, right?
[05:59] <bob2> tseng: does the muine in breezy have the pimp cd burning thing?
[06:16] <fabbione> morning
[06:18] <sjoeboo> night
[06:40] <fabbione> lamont: ??
[06:40] <fabbione> the last 3 x uploads are from mdz :)
[06:42] <jdub> fabbione: my mirror just loves it! ;)
[06:47] <lamont> -29 build-conflicts with <25
[06:47] <lamont> and the last one that hppa built was -24
[06:47] <fabbione> lamont: hmm didn't see it because i managed to build -28 before that
[06:47] <fabbione> jdub: so does mine :)
[06:47] <bob2> why is pike in main, anyway?
[06:48] <fabbione> bob2: iirc swing build-dep
[06:48] <lamont> hrm.. I have -27 in the morgue... time to tweak the archive a bit.
[06:49] <bob2> fabbione: swing the java thing?
[06:49] <fabbione> bob2: i think so.. it's for an extension of something.. and infinity was going to kill it to push pike back in universe
[06:50] <bob2> yay
[06:50] <fabbione> lamont: how can i gather the stats of Installed in the archive?
[06:50] <bob2> thanks, fabbione
[06:50] <fabbione> lamont: last time you did check the % of installed pkgs for hppa/sparc..
[06:50] <fabbione> bob2: np
[06:51] <lamont> fabbione: p.u.c/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.$ARCH
[06:54] <fabbione> lamont: thanks :)
[07:04] <infinity> lamont : Erm, what?
[07:04] <infinity> lamont : It build-conflicts cause you're supposed to build the modular stuff first. (the new libx11, etc)
[07:04] <infinity> lamont : If you build in the right order, life is fine.
[07:08] <Amaranth> is X good?
[07:08] <Amaranth> i mean, does the latest version break things? :)
[07:11] <lamont> infinity: ah, duh.
[07:11] <lamont>  /usr/bin/ld: .libs/libXext_la-DPMS.o: relocation R_PARISC_DPREL21L can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[07:11] <lamont> .libs/libXext_la-DPMS.o: could not read symbols: Bad value
[07:11] <lamont> :-)
[07:12] <lamont> libxklavier_2.0-0.2ubuntu2 is also non-PIC in shared lib
[07:12] <bob2> hm, he said some static libs were non-pic now
[07:12] <bob2> which some stuff was unhappy about
[07:13] <lamont> bob2: yeah, like _X_
[07:13] <lamont> but really must sleep
[07:13] <bob2> haha
[07:13] <bob2> 'night lamont
[08:16] <pitti> Good morning
[08:16] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:16] <fabbione> pitti: it's time to start tracking 2.6.12 security stuff.
[08:17] <fabbione> pitti: no need to push me what will come with 2.6.12.X, we will track it automatically
[08:17] <pitti> hey, did they release the final?
[08:17] <fabbione> yup
[08:17] <fabbione> saturday
[08:17] <pitti> \o/
[08:17] <fabbione> but battlestar concordia is down
[08:17] <fabbione> so i couldn't do too much
[08:17] <pitti> uh
[08:17] <pitti> weekend mode :-)
[08:17] <fabbione> ehehhe
[08:18] <fabbione> well i am enjoying bootstrapping ghc6 :)
[09:04] <fabbione> hey Kamion
[09:17] <jsgotangco> JaneW, hi
[09:23] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco :)
[09:34] <jsgotangco> JaneW, its been a while, how are you
[09:36] <JaneW> jsgotangco, I have been popping in every day as I can, but being on the road, my connectivity is sporadic, also my e-mail laod has sky-rocketted!
[09:41] <\sh> good morning
[09:42] <Treenaks> hey \sh
[09:54] <sivang> morning all
[09:54] <sivang> hey pi
[09:54] <sivang> pitti, even
[09:54] <fabbione> hi sivang
[09:54] <fabbione> sivang: did you ping me during the we?
[09:54] <sivang> hey fabbione , I looked for you yesterday
[09:56] <fabbione> ok :)
[09:57] <fabbione> i was more or less busy
[10:03] <pitti> Hi sivang
[10:03] <pitti> moin carlos
[10:04] <carlos> pitti, morning
[10:25] <pitti> Hey seb128, had a good weekend?
[10:25] <seb128> pitti: hello. Yep, quite good. You?
[10:26] <pitti> good one, lots of biking and swimming :-) /me loves summer
[10:26] <pitti> Morning JaneW
[10:27] <seb128> summer is nice when it's not too hot :)
[10:43] <\sh> summer is nice, when u didn't drink the evening before ;)
[10:57] <chmj> thom, ping
[11:06] <cartman|work> daniels: ping ?
[11:12] <carlos> pitti, you forgot the link to the spec
[11:21] <pitti> elmo: prelink sync, please
[11:22] <mdke> wooo http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160080 is fixed
[11:24] <pitti> elmo: libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql sync, please
[11:31] <pitti> elmo: exim4, php4-pgsql syncs, please
[11:42] <Keybuk> seb128: morning?
[11:43] <thom> chmj: ack
[11:43] <seb128> hey Keybuk
[11:46] <ogra> thom, thanks for the orinoco hint.... i tried the 0.15 driver over here.... now even if my card supports scanning, n-m still doesnt like it
[11:52] <Keybuk> pitti: ok, I'm going nuts
[11:52] <Keybuk> why does postgresql 7.5.6 provide postgresql 7.4?!
[11:53] <pitti> Keybuk: erm, it doesn't
[11:54] <pitti> Keybuk: it depends on p-7.4
[11:54] <Keybuk> right ...
[11:54] <Keybuk> but why is it 7.5.6 then and not 7.4 ?
[11:56] <pitti> Keybuk: it is a transition package that moves the sarge/hoary cluster to the new infrastructure of p-common
[11:56] <pitti> Keybuk: it must be newer than any 7.4 version, so I just called it 7.5 (which doesn't exist upstream)
[11:57] <Keybuk> heh
[11:57] <Keybuk> right
[11:59] <pitti> Keybuk: the idea of this package is to do the transition from sarge/hoary, it can be deleted afterwards
[12:00] <pitti> Keybuk: do you import the postgresql stuff into hct ATM?
[12:03] <Keybuk> it didn't go for hoary
[12:03] <Keybuk> it may go in the breezy import running atm
[12:03] <pitti> cool
[12:04] <pitti> structurally, the breezy packages are much simpler
[12:09] <Keybuk> right
[12:09] <Keybuk> maybe they'll just work(tm) then
[12:09] <|QuaD-_> seb128: you around?
[12:10] <seb128> pong
[12:10] <tseng> bob2: not yet
[12:11] <|QuaD-_> seb128: i got a quick question, if i give you the website with a useful gaim plugin, can you package it with gaim?
[12:11] <seb128> no
[12:11] <|QuaD-_> seb128: ok
[12:11] <seb128> you can package it though
[12:11] <seb128> and put it for review on the wiki
[12:11] <|QuaD-_> :)
[12:11] <seb128> but it's not shipped by gaim, it should not be packaged with gaim
[12:12] <|QuaD-_> ok, i wasn't sure the policies on that
[12:12] <seb128> that and I don't like gaim, so don't count on me to package gaim stuff :p
[12:12] <|QuaD-_> seb128: i thought you packaged gaim?
[12:13] <seb128> it's packaged by Debian, I only do the syncs and handle the bugs
[12:13] <|QuaD-_> ohh
[12:16] <jsgotangco> JaneW, busy in the edubuntu lists, i see :)
[12:26] <ogra> wow, mjg59 the german LinuxUser magazine has a test of the HP NC4200 with ubuntu, kudos.... it as positive as it could be "...if the ubuntu team makes suspend-to-ram and the MMC cardreader work, you get the perfect linux laptop...."
[12:28] <jsgotangco> wow
[12:28] <jsgotangco> oh btw hi ogra
[12:28] <ogra> hi jsgotangco :)
[12:29] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yeah things are picking up nicely there... we have 45 list members now :)
[12:29] <ogra> JaneW, you pinged ?
[12:33] <jsgotangco> yeah hopefully the pople won't lost steam on their enthusiasm on the project
[12:33] <HiddenWolf> ogra, neat review
[12:33] <ogra> HiddenWolf, yeps
[12:34] <ogra> jsgotangco, lots of them work already professional with linux in their scools
[12:35] <jsgotangco> yeah, definitely exciting
[12:35] <jsgotangco> sabdfl, hi
[12:35] <sabdfl> hi all
[12:36] <ogra> hi sabdfl
[12:41] <pitti> Hi sabdfl
[12:41] <sabdfl> pitti!
[12:49] <ogra> hmm, should edubuntu contain mindmapping software....
[12:49] <fabbione> hi sabdfl
[12:49] <mvo> hi sabdfl
[12:50] <jsgotangco> ogra, what a great idea, i didnt notice that
[12:50] <sabdfl> hey fabbione, michael, wot's rocking in breezy today?
[12:50] <ogra> X works again :)
[12:50] <fabbione> sabdfl: 2.6.12 final will be on the way today or tomorrow...
[12:50] <hunger> fabbione: Great news!
[12:50] <mvo> sabdfl: netwide-updates taking shape
[12:51] <fabbione> sabdfl: usual tons of drivers update... thanks to chmj tracking tool :)
[12:51] <hunger> fabbione: I urgently need that kernel for my new laptop:-)
[12:51] <sabdfl> v cool
[12:51] <thom> sabdfl: install network-manager, see how it goes for you
[12:52] <fabbione> hunger: i am not 100% sure i will make today.. one of the test/build machine is down atm and i can't compile for all the arches.
[12:52] <ogra> fabbione, could you have a look at the orinoco_cs drivers, there shall be a patch that makes AP scanning work, it is needed to make n-m happy
[12:52] <fabbione> ogra: can we try 2.6.12 final first?
[12:52] <fabbione> ogra: and then we look around for bug fixes?
[12:52] <ogra> fabbione, sure
[12:52] <fabbione> great
[12:53] <ogra> just wanted to bring it to your attention.... :)
[12:53] <fabbione> ogra: if you have a link to the patch, can you send it to me?
[12:53] <fabbione> ogra: i can already check if it made upstream or not
[12:54] <hunger> thom: Is the network manager a gui for /etc/network/* ?
[12:54] <thom> hunger: no: http://people.redhat.com/dcbw/NetworkManager
[12:55] <Echylo> back
[12:55] <hunger> thom: So ubuntu is moving toward redhat wrt. network setup?
[12:57] <thom> hunger: go and read the page
[12:57] <ogra> fabbione, i only got this url from thom, i'll try to get more info: http://www.livejournal.com/users/kernelslacker/19564.html
[12:57] <fabbione> ogra: gimme a sec :)
[12:58] <hunger> thom: I did... and I'll give it a try later.
[12:58] <ogra> thom, already talked to andyfitz ? the icons are awful
[12:59] <fabbione> ogra: there is no patch...
[12:59] <ogra> fabbione, i said, i'll try to get more info.... i'll mail the guy
[12:59] <thom> hunger: then why the question? it's nothing to do with network setup; it's purely on network _selection_
[12:59] <fabbione> ogra: ok thanks
[12:59] <thom> ogra: there's an ongoing thread on NM list about icons currently
[12:59] <ogra> thom, yay
[01:08] <jsgotangco> night all
[01:09] <ogra> night jsgotangco
[01:46] <Riddell> might anyone be able to tell me why X has stopped working  muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/Xorg.0.log
[01:46] <Riddell> it can't find fonts
[01:48] <mdke> i had that one when i tried breezy a couple of weeks back
[01:48] <mdke> no idea why
[01:48] <ogra> Riddell, how often did you upgrade in the recent time ?
[01:49] <ogra> Riddell, you need to update your fontpaths
[01:50] <\sh> problem I have right now, I just fixed the links to XKeysymDB and now with KDE I can't type anymore....gnome is working find
[01:50] <\sh> s/find/fine&
[01:50] <mdke> i tried setting fonts to /usr/share/etc but that 'fixed' error didn't go away
[01:50] <\sh>  /usr/share/fonts
[01:51] <mdke> yeah sorry that's what i meant ;)
[01:51] <ogra> hmm, both should be solved with the upload mdz did yesterday
[01:51] <\sh> no
[01:51] <mdke> ok cool
[01:51] <\sh> i just did the update
[01:52] <ogra> \sh, it works here
[01:52] <ogra> on 3 machines
[01:52] <ogra> mdz put in the two missing links....
[01:52] <ogra> look if they are there
[01:52] <\sh> 6.8.2-30?
[01:52] <ogra> yep
[01:52] <ogra> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb -> /etc/X11/xkb
[01:52] <ogra> and
[01:52] <\sh> yeah..this morning there weren't there
[01:53] <ogra> /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB
[01:54] <ogra> these two should solve the probelm and afaik, mdz put them back into debian/xlibs.links
[01:54] <\sh> but this is only for getting the right xkb settings...problem now is "i can't type under KDE" ;)
[01:54] <\sh> but I don't see the error
[01:54] <ogra> \sh, these links are for X
[01:55] <ogra> not related to a DE
[01:55] <\sh> ogra, yes :) I know, and I set them this morning by hand :)
[01:55] <Kamion> pitti: could you follow up to your -devel mail with a link to the spec you refer to?
[01:55] <ogra> i'm just upgrading my 4th machine.... it seems they are set wrong :(
[01:56] <\sh> aha
[01:56] <pitti> Kamion: argh, my bad... of course
[01:57] <chrissturm> ogra: seems so: lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 29 2005-06-20 11:55 /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> ../../X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[01:57] <ogra> damned.... looks like i'm doomed to fix it
[01:58] <\sh> ogra, why?
[01:59] <ogra> \sh, because 1.) i worked on it with mdz yesterday and 2.) i need a liveCD image with working X to make my first edubuntu cd
[01:59] <ogra> \sh, daniels is travelling....
[01:59] <\sh> ogra, that's bad :(
[02:01] <doko> pitti: Is BaseSeedProposals still the page of choice? At least it's the only one linked from DeveloperResources
[02:01] <mdke> hey hypatia!
[02:01] <hypatia> hey mdke
[02:02] <pitti> doko: no idea...
[02:02] <hypatia> how are things in ubuntu land?
[02:02] <mdke> hypatia, how are you?
[02:02] <hypatia> OK, busy, just moved house.
[02:02] <mdke> they are good afaik
[02:02] <doko> pitti: anyway, I made some proposals on BaseSeedProposals, please process them ;)
[02:03] <\sh> finally...breezy solved the problems with the font reendering between gnome and kde
[02:03] <mdke> hypatia, cool, hope its gone well!
[02:03] <pitti> doko: additions to main should be put into UbuntuMainInclusionQueue first
[02:03] <doko> pitti: then *please* link this from DeveloperResources :-/
[02:03] <pitti> doko: we can discuss whether it's appropriate for base if it's in main
[02:03] <pitti> ok
[02:08] <ogra> hmm, weird, the links in debian/xlibs-data.links seem correct.....
[02:08] <ogra>  usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:09] <pitti> doko: I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement and put a link to it
[02:09] <ogra> but the actual link in /usr/lib/X11 points to ../../X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:09] <\sh> it's /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:09] <trulux> I can't get compiling some stuff due to flex++
[02:09] <\sh> not /usr/lib/X11
[02:10] <ogra> nope
[02:10] <\sh> yes :)
[02:10] <\sh> ok...from start
[02:10] <Riddell> where should /etc/X11/X be pointing to?
[02:10] <\sh>  /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:10] <\sh> ^this is not there
[02:11] <ogra> Riddell, /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[02:11] <\sh>  /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB should have a link from /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:11] <\sh> this is working...but not correct
[02:11] <ogra> \sh, nope
[02:11] <doko> pitti: yes, that looks even better
[02:11] <\sh> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root root    12 2005-06-20 06:18 xkb -> /etc/X11/xkb
[02:11] <\sh> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root root    29 2005-06-20 06:18 XKeysymDB -> ../../X11R6/lib/X1 1/XKeysymDB
[02:11] <\sh> this is what i was getting this morning as update
[02:11] <ogra> \sh, xorg only uses /usr/lib/X11
[02:11] <\sh> ogra, yes...thats why it is wrong
[02:12] <ogra> \sh, so all the links should be in there
[02:12] <\sh> but
[02:12] <\sh> drwxr-xr-x   7 root root   176 2005-06-16 13:17 fonts
[02:12] <\sh> drwxr-xr-x  58 root root  1824 2005-06-17 16:31 locale
[02:12] <\sh> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 36378 2005-06-16 17:20 XErrorDB
[02:12] <\sh> -rw-r--r--   1 root root  8298 2005-06-16 17:20 XKeysymDB
[02:12] <ogra> and weirdly the link points to ../../
[02:12] <\sh> this  is what is in /usr/share/X11
[02:12] <ogra> yes, with two broken links
[02:12] <ogra> but
[02:12] <ogra>  usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:12] <ogra> is whats in the .links file in debian/
[02:13] <ogra> so it should work
[02:13] <\sh> yeah...link from /usr/lib/X11/... to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11
[02:13] <Riddell>  /usr/bin/X11/Xorg points to /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg which points to itself
[02:13] <\sh> well, actually it doesn't work
[02:13] <ogra> \sh, yes, but why ?
[02:14] <ogra> \sh, (why are the links wrong even if they are specified right in the .links file)
[02:14] <carlos> doko, around?
[02:15] <trulux> fixe
[02:15] <trulux> fixed
[02:15] <ogra> \me gets the xorg build log
[02:15] <doko> carlos: sure
[02:16] <\sh> ogra, it's wrong
[02:16] <ogra> \sh, what ?
[02:16] <\sh> etc/X11/xkb usr/lib/X11/xkb
[02:16] <carlos> doko, hi. How is the status of OO.org 1.4 vs 2.0 for breezy?
[02:16] <ogra> \sh, thats perfectly right
[02:16] <\sh> means : links /usr/lib/X11/xkb to /etc/X11/xkb ?
[02:16] <carlos>  s/1.4/1.1.4/
[02:16] <ogra> \sh, and thats not te broken one
[02:16] <doko> carlos: 2.0
[02:16] <\sh> ogra, but check it
[02:16] <ogra> yes, its right, i checked it
[02:17] <carlos> doko, ok
[02:17] <\sh> the installed way is: /usr/lib/X11/xkb is a link from /etc/X11/xkb
[02:17] <ogra> \sh, /etc/X11/xkb is a real directory....
[02:17] <\sh> so it reads: link from -> link to
[02:17] <ogra> \sh, not anymore
[02:17] <carlos> doko, will try to take a look to integrate that version with Rosetta then
[02:17] <\sh> so /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB should be a link _FROM_ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:18] <doko> carlos: be prepared to store the sdf files as well (somewhere)
[02:18] <\sh> ogra, ?? it's in this file :) xlibs-data.links
[02:18] <ogra> yeps
[02:18] <carlos> doko, that will be a problem, will try to do something to 'elude' it
[02:18] <ogra> \sh, XKeysymDB isnt moved yet
[02:18] <\sh> ogra, it's sitting in /usr/share/X11
[02:19] <ogra> \sh, so  /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB should be a link _to_ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:19] <\sh> ogra, which is
[02:19] <\sh> ogra, but then /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB is not existing
[02:19] <ogra> \sh, please dont confiuse me, i know very well where which link has to go.... rather help finding out why the file is processed wrong
[02:20] <mpt> ogra: Which do you need a design for most urgently: power management prefs, xscreensaver prefs, or TeachersPet?
[02:21] <ogra> mpt, power-management-perfs is in flux, i just mailed richard huges (upstream), xscreensaver prefs is the lowhanging fruit i guess and TeachersPet has no even a mockup yet
[02:22] <ogra> so power-prefs would be a bad idea until we have the upstream freeze i guess....
[02:22] <mpt> ogra: Yah, I saw hughsie in here before, but too late to chat with him ... Is he willing to simplify the prefs for us?
[02:22] <syndicate> Is there any reason why packages omit the --enable-kerberos5 or --with-krb5 when the package supports it?
[02:22] <ogra> mpt, i'm not sure if he is, but i am ;)
[02:23] <ogra> mpt, he just made an awful change (at least for us)
[02:23] <mpt> ogra: Well, if he is, I could send him mockups instead :-)
[02:23] <mpt> really?
[02:23] <Kamion> syndicate: sometimes because the packager is trying to avoid extra library dependencies in the base system, sometimes the packager knows it's not quite ready upstream, sometimes the packager just forgot
[02:23] <ogra> mpt, he puts shutdown/hibernate/suspend and reboot into the right click menu of the applet...
[02:23] <mpt> hehehe
[02:23] <ogra> mpt, so we have them two times now
[02:24] <mpt> right click is teh aewsome
[02:24] <ogra> if he isnt willing to cut that out or given an config option, i'll have to patch it away
[02:25] <mpt> ogra: So when is TeachersPet scheduled for implementation?
[02:26] <Treenaks> TeachersPet?
[02:26] <ogra> mpt, a very basic version should be in the first edubuntu release
[02:26] <mpt> Treenaks: http://edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
[02:27] <ogra> mpt, but that will only have support for the most essential stuff, no extras yet
[02:27] <mpt> ogra: So, same time as Breezy
[02:27] <ogra> mpt, sadly there are no screenshots of TeacherTool....
[02:27] <mpt> all righty
[02:27] <ogra> yep
[02:28] <Riddell> got X working by extracting by hand and using Xorg from there, it replaces /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg with a symlink to itself otherwise
[02:28] <mpt> ogra: http://school.qop.org/lmontes/teachertool.png ?
[02:28] <Treenaks> this will make "hacking the school network" so much more challenging then the "NET LOGIN" I had to do ;)
[02:28] <mpt> haha
[02:28] <ogra> heh, mpt yes, enjoy the ugliness
[02:29] <mpt> ogra: No relation to http://homepage.mac.com/teast/ttool.jpg I assume
[02:29] <mpt> (though that's also extreme ugliness)
[02:29] <ogra> mpt, nope and yes :)
[02:30] <mpt> It must have taken serious, serious effort to alter that window so that it was turqouise and pink rather than standard Aqua
[02:30] <ogra> mpt, the end version of TeachersPet should visualize as much as possible... i'm thinking about little screenshots of the pupils deskst or something to click on
[02:30] <`anthony> grump. which genius thought it was a good idea to ship a stripped python binary?
[02:31] <mpt> ogra: excellent idea
[02:31] <ogra> `anthony, thats what you get from packagers the watch too much pr0n.... they wat everything stripped ;)
[02:32] <Treenaks> ogra: that can become quite annoying with 30+ students on a 17" screen
[02:32] <ogra> mpt, but thats rather breezy+1
[02:32] <ogra> Treenaks, so i have to solve it ;)
[02:32] <ogra> Treenaks, but i have plenty of time, atm i just want TeacherTool replaced and as a base for further development
[02:33] <mpt> ogra: So, just a list to start with
[02:33] <ogra> mpt, yep
[02:33] <Treenaks> ogra: matrix interface ;)
[02:34] <ogra> mpt, btw, we have other ugliness.... your second shot just reminded me... have a look at ggradebook
[02:34] <hunger> Anyone got /dev/tpm supported in ubuntu yet?
[02:35] <Kamion> stripped python binary> *all* binaries are stripped; if there's a non-stripped variant it should go in python2.4-dbg or similar
[02:35] <doko> `anthony: the genius' name is "debian policy"
[02:36] <doko> just install python-dbg
[02:36] <mpt> ogra: Is that gtk 1.x?
[02:36] <`anthony> might be a nice option to have a python-dbg package that has a python built --with-debug and nonstripped.
[02:36] <`anthony> would make life much more pleasant for people working with C code extensions
[02:36] <mpt> must be, their latest news item is from 2001
[02:36] <doko> `anthony: already there
[02:37] <Kamion> doko: only in universe; maybe we should put it in main
[02:37] <`anthony> doko: you rock! please give guido the keys to the timemachine when you're done with them... ;)
[02:38] <mpt> ogra: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/ggradebook-devel/2005-06/threads.html -- it's dead
[02:38] <`anthony> doko: might be a good idea. a debug build makes hunting down bugs much more pleasant.
[02:38] <ogra> mpt, its in breezy
[02:39] <`anthony> (currently I'm fixing the dbus bindings, teaching it about PyGILState_Ensure/Release :-/)
[02:39] <doko> `anthony: it is a separate build using --with-debug and nonstripped, and contains debugging symbols for the normal python binary
[02:39] <ogra> mpt, and its the default tool k12ltsp uses... i havent found anything else yet
[02:39] <mpt> Does anyone use k12ltsp? :-(
[02:39] <ogra> mpt, yeps
[02:39] <mpt> We must save them!
[02:40] <ogra> mpt, skubuntu did obviously some installs the last years in .za
[02:40] <mpt> skubuntu?
[02:41] <doko> Kamion: added to UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[02:42] <mjg59> ogra: Rock
[02:42] <ogra> mpt, a .za initiative for bringing linux into the schools
[02:42] <ogra> mjg59, yay
[02:45] <doko> roman numbers fun: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-June/054292.html
[02:46] <mpt> ogra: Okay, so, xscreensaver -> TeachersPet -> gnome-power -> ggradebook
[02:46] <Duck_work> coin
[02:46] <ogra> mpt, yeps, sounds good... i'm not sure if we have time left for a ggradebook port...
[02:47] <mpt> Breezy+1 is the answer to all life's thorny questions
[02:47] <mpt> ogra: btw, did you know about http://teachers-pet.org/ ?
[02:47] <mpt> Teacher's Pet might need a different name
[02:47] <ogra> its my work name :)
[02:47] <mpt> arr, a working title
[02:47] <ogra> but it would have made a nice name... sad
[02:48] <ogra> argh
[02:48] <ogra> You must have Microsoft Word to be able to use this software.
[02:48] <ogra> If you don't, check out this vast selection of useful websites for teachers.
[02:48] <ogra> PHEEER
[02:48] <mpt> It's probably a collection of Word macros
[02:48] <mpt> viruses optional
[02:48] <ogra> i guess all they offer is VB
[02:48] <ogra> yeps *g*
[02:50] <ogra> Duck_work, there is a guy who wants to become a MOTU, he wanted to package mediawiki, probably you two should talk :)
[02:52] <thom> does blam actually work currently?
[02:52] <Duck_work> ogra: he should try to become a DD and push it to Ubuntu then
[02:52] <Duck_work> ogra: who is he ?
[02:52] <ogra> Duck_work, but if i got it right, you already packaged it
[02:52] <ogra> Duck_work, /join #ubuntu-motu, look for GNULinuxer
[02:53] <Duck_work> ogra: yes, but i'm too busy to maintain it, so it is unofficial packaging, i'm ok to comaintain (mostly because i use it), and ok to sponsor
[02:53] <Duck_work> oky
[02:53] <ogra> Duck_work, he is very new and could need a helping hand
[02:53] <\sh> guys, anybody alive who can force a package into the buildds? only on ppc?
[02:54] <Duck_work> ogra: my only problem is time, but i'm ok to help of course
[02:54] <ogra> Duck_work, great :)
[02:55] <ogra> Duck_work, how rich are you, that you are able to give coins to everybody.... or are they only for the local washcenter ?
[02:55] <ogra> :)
[02:59] <Duck_work> ogra: :-)
[03:00] <mpt> ogra: Are you keeping an eye on gnome-screensaver?
[03:00] <ogra> mpt, its not feasable.... insecurity everywhere
[03:01] <ogra> mpt, i'd prefer jdubs idea of a freescreensaver spec at freedesktop.org and work along this one...
[03:01] <mpt> ogra: Why are people working on it? Do they not know about the insecurity? Or do they know and not care?
[03:02] <ogra> mpt, the problem is, you cant introduce a widget toolkit in a safe way into the lock code....
[03:02] <mpt> ogra: So how would a freescreensaver spec help that?
[03:02] <ogra> mpt, thats why i wrote my patch as it is...
[03:03] <ogra> mpt, not at all, but you could specify a secure framework where every DE could hook in with its widgets for example... but thats a long process to do it right...
[03:04] <tseng> you'd have to look at the NSA spec on secure X
[03:04] <mpt> O.
[03:04] <ogra> mpt, and i honestly dont know why they are still workig on gnomescreensaver, i thought it was dead
[03:04] <tseng> policy on a window manager, trusted input and all that
[03:04] <thom> tseng: does blam work for you?
[03:04] <tseng> thom: yes
[03:04] <thom> hrmph
[03:04] <tseng> thom: fix it on amd64 plzkthxbi
[03:04] <thom> bah
[03:05] <thom> lamer :-)
[03:05] <tseng> well you could send me one
[03:05] <mpt> ogra: 26 checkins so far this month :-]
[03:05] <tseng> and ill start filing bugs and testing for you
[03:05] <tseng> your choice
[03:05] <Nafallo> thom: blam --sync works ;-)
[03:05] <ogra> mpt, rather a question we should ask jdub
[03:06] <Nafallo> thom: btw, is nm-applet supposed to freeze all the time? :-)
[03:07] <thom> Nafallo: it doesn't
[03:07] <thom> obviously. because no-one has filed a bug claiming that, and it doesn't here
[03:07] <Nafallo> thom: hmm, might be something local then.
[03:07] <thom> ;-)
[03:08] <thom> ok, yes, sync works
[03:08] <Nafallo> thom: hehe, I should file a bug then :-). just want my keyboard back first :-P.
[03:08] <thom> thanks
[03:08] <ogra> Nafallo, working on it over here
[03:09] <Nafallo> ogra: ahh, you got that bug to? :-)
[03:09] <hunger> Did the last X update fix keyboards again for someone? Mine still is broken.
[03:09] <ogra> hunger, nope, the fix was broken
[03:09] <hunger> ogra: Too bad. Thanks for the info though.
[03:09] <chrissturm> ogra: i made the links manually and its still broken. do i need to run anything after creating the links or just restart X?
[03:09] <Nafallo> ogra: d'oh! you meant Xorg ofcourse :-P
[03:10] <ogra> chrissturm, only restrt X
[03:14] <ogra> chrissturm, one has to point from /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb to the dir /etc/X11/xkb
[03:14] <chrissturm> ogra: is that the correct link: lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 24 2005-06-20 14:02 /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB ?
[03:14] <ogra> chrissturm, nope, thats completely wrong
[03:15] <ogra> err, sorry, the last one you showed was right
[03:15] <ogra> chrissturm, but you need both
[03:16] <ogra> too many links around me today
[03:27] <chrissturm> ogra: its still not working for me, but i'm probably making some kind of stupid mistake
[03:28] <pitti> \sh: I have
[03:28] <\sh> pitti: wonderful :)
[03:28] <pitti> \sh: well, not to a buildd, but to a developer dchroot
[03:29] <ogra> chrissturm,
[03:29] <ogra>  ls -l /usr/lib/X11/X*
[03:29] <ogra> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 28 2005-06-20 02:20 /usr/lib/X11/XErrorDB -> ../../X11R6/lib/X11/XErrorDB
[03:29] <ogra> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 29 2005-06-20 02:20 /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> ../../X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[03:29] <ogra> err...
[03:29] <ogra> huh ?
[03:29] <\sh> pitti: no i need to have someone who can throw a package again to a buildd
[03:29] <Kamion> ("give-back")
[03:29] <\sh> to our buildds ;)
[03:30] <pitti> \sh: oh, that's infinity's job
[03:30] <ogra> chrissturm, erm, the above is wrong
[03:30] <ogra> argh... this links drive me CRAZY !!
[03:30] <\sh> it's working..it took it
[03:31] <ogra> and i still have no idea why debian/xlibs-data.links isnt processed at all
[03:31] <\sh> Kamion, what does it mean "give back"?
[03:32] <\sh> ogra, check yellow pages ;)
[03:32] <Duck_work> ogra: GNULinuxer has some homework to do, he has a lot to learn, if he works well, i would sponsor/comaintain mediawiki into Debian and ask you or someone kind here to sponsor it into Ubuntu
[03:32] <ogra> Duck_work, sure :)
[03:32] <ogra> Duck_work, he'll do his homework with us ;)
[03:32] <\sh> and ogra will review his php package ;-)
[03:33] <ogra> \sh, never
[03:33] <\sh> ogra, yes, what do u think mediawiki is ;)
[03:33] <Duck_work> ogra: php is not harmful
[03:33] <ogra> Duck_work, php is ugly
[03:33] <ogra> Duck_work, ... and insecure
[03:33] <ogra> i prefe python
[03:33] <ogra> prefer even
[03:33] <Duck_work> yea, ruby is quite better, but php works in some ways
[03:33] <chrissturm> ogra: take a look at ruby on rails
[03:34] <ogra> and eve a perl cgi is better then php
[03:34] <Duck_work> ogra: it is just helping a NM, not taking care of php stuff yourself
[03:35] <karlheg> I think it has more to do with the coding style of many PHP programmers than with PHP itself.  HTML::Mason provides a good framework that PHP programmers could adopt, I thought.  I've seen too many PHP scripts that embed HTML in print statements.
[03:38] <ogra> Duck_work, i know... i'll look at the packages....
[03:38] <Duck_work> ogra: i'll look too, don't worry
[03:39] <Kamion> \sh: 14:29 < \sh> pitti: no i need to have someone who can throw a package again to a buildd
[03:39] <Kamion> \sh: it means that
[03:39] <Kamion> but it's the technical term for it
[03:40] <ogra> ARGH, dh_link isnt called _AT ALL_ in the xorg rules file....
[03:41] <ogra> i'm going crazy
[03:42] <ogra> ah, found iz
[03:42] <Kamion> aargh, gnome-session totally breaks on a fresh installation
[03:42] <Kamion> maybe it doesn't like xterm being missing or something
[03:43] <ogra> Kamion, what do you get ?
[03:44] <ogra> Kamion, i had a funny X dialog today.... but it went away after i choose a session in gdm
[03:44] <Kamion> I've rebooted now, sorry; some X dialog with "chooseSessionListDialog" or something like that in it
[03:45] <ogra> yep, same here
[03:45] <Kamion> chooseSessionListWidget
[03:45] <ogra> the gdm default session seems broken
[03:46] <Kamion> /etc/gdm/Xsession: Cannot find Xclients
[03:46] <Kamion> ctrl-alt-F1 doesn't work!
[03:47] <ogra> it works as soon as you select gnome ...
[03:47] <Treenaks> ogra: ctrl+alt+f1 too?
[03:47] <ogra> Kamion, thats what i'm working on currently
[03:47] <Kamion> whoever totally wedgied X, please let go of its underwear
[03:47] <Kamion> ah
[03:48] <ogra> Kamion, daniels broke it...mdz and i tried to fix it yesterday...mdz introduced the fix, but xorg seems not to read the debian/xlibs-data.links file at all... i have no idea why
[03:48] <Treenaks> ogra: so that's why xkb is broken as well?
[03:48] <ogra> Treenaks, yeps
[03:49] <ogra> Treenaks, missing links to XKeysymDB and xkb
[03:49] <bob2> daniels' account only allows vodka to be purchased
[03:49] <Treenaks> bob2: then I buy a case of that
[03:49] <Treenaks> bob2: want some?
[03:49] <bob2> but of course
[03:50] <Kamion> ogra: the symlinks seem to be there
[03:51] <Kamion> lrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-06-20 00:23:27 ./usr/lib/X11/XErrorDB -> ../../X11R6/lib/X11/XErrorDB
[03:51] <Kamion> lrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-06-20 00:23:27 ./usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> ../../X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[03:51] <Kamion> lrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-06-20 00:23:27 ./usr/lib/X11/xkb -> /etc/X11/xkb
[03:51] <ogra> nope
[03:51] <Kamion> that's from the package on rookery
[03:51] <ogra> err
[03:51] <Treenaks> -30 ?
[03:51] <Kamion> yes
[03:51] <ogra> they should point to /usr/share/X11
[03:52] <ogra> ha... thats the bug, great, thanks Kamion
[03:52] <ogra> i just got blind in this linkage jungle
[03:52] <Kamion> np
[03:54] <ogra> heh
[03:54] <Treenaks> thom: well, it looked like gdm broke to mee
[03:54] <Treenaks> -e
[03:54] <thom> well, that's seb
[03:55] <thom> i'm pretty sure i can't be implicated at all
[03:55] <maswan> thom: btw, dns update for releases.ubuntu.com, can you do those? <IP_ADDRESS> has been taken out of ftp.acc.umu.se for a while, and won't be returning back soon either. so perhaps an update to releases.ubuntu.com would be in order?
[03:55] <thom> maswan: best to ask elmo
[03:55] <maswan> thom: Ok.
[03:55] <maswan> elmo?
[03:55] <Treenaks> thom: that's what seb always says too
[03:56] <maswan> I haven't had much luck in getting hold of him, but then I've been gone for most of last week anyway.
[03:56] <Nafallo> maswan: e-mail? :-)
[03:57] <maswan> Nafallo: oh. neat idea.
[03:57] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:57] <torkel> e-mail is so last year :-)
[03:57] <maswan> Nafallo: I'll take a look at it. I've neglected my email much more than irc the last week though. Slowly working through my inbox now. :)
[03:58] <Nafallo> maswan: well, that would probably end up in yor _outbox_ ;-)
[03:58] <ogra> pitti, doko, mvo seen that one ? http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/artikel/826/54772/
[03:58] <ogra> mostly wrong, but ositive all over      atleast
[04:00] <pitti> ogra: thanks for the link :-)
[04:04] <mvo> ogra: sometimes it makes me very worried how inaccurate the media is :/
[04:05] <doko> ogra: yes
[04:06] <ogra> mvo, especially from the sueddeutsche i hadnt expected such a bad researched article
[04:06] <mvo> ogra: exactly
[04:22] <Lathiat> doh X is totally broken again
[04:23] <Treenaks> ogra is looking at it, afaik
[04:23] <infinity> s/again/still/
[04:23] <infinity> And yes, ogra is the new Xorg slave.
[04:23] <infinity> daniels's master plan of "break stuff and then run away" is slowly creating a maintenance team, I think. :)
[04:23] <infinity> (maybe that was his plan all along)
[04:24] <Lathiat> haha
[04:24] <Treenaks> infinity: that technique is not described in CatB... it should be added :)
[04:24] <Lathiat> is there a temp workaround?
[04:24] <zul> heh...dont restart x
[04:24] <infinity> EVER.
[04:25] <Lathiat> too late
[04:25] <Lathiat> p
[04:25] <Lathiat> ;p
[04:25] <zul> works for me
[04:25] <Lathiat> so whats daniels do
[04:25] <Lathiat> ing
[04:25] <Lathiat> conferencing
[04:25] <Lathiat> ?
[04:25] <Nafallo> I would tip on LinuxTag ;-)
[04:26] <Nafallo> with the XOrg meeting and all :-)
[04:26] <infinity> Indeed, even as we speak, he's probably shoving his modular work down everyone's throats.  In a nice, community-friendly way.
[04:27] <infinity> (which means, getting them all drunk, committing it all to CVS, changing the timestamps on the archive, then convincing them "it was always like that")
[04:27] <Nafallo> lol
[04:27] <Lathiat> i fixed it now
[04:27] <Lathiat> cd /usr/bin/X11; ln -s ../../X11R6/bin/X .
[04:28] <ogra> Lathiat, erm, that works ?
[04:28] <Lathiat> ogra: it does
[04:28] <Lathiat> basically it wanted /usr/bin/X11/X but it wasin /usr/X11R6/bin/X
[04:29] <Lathiat> it was in /usr/bin/X11/X yesterday tho
[04:29] <ogra> Lathiat, the clean ix would be: cd /etc/X11; sudo ln -s /usr/bin/X11/Xorg .
[04:29] <ogra> s/ix/fix
[04:29] <Lathiat> oh?
[04:29] <Lathiat> ok
[04:29] <ogra> but if the other worksa too.... dont worry
[04:30] <ogra> :)
[04:30] <ogra> X is a link maze currently
[04:30] <hunger> ogra: That fix does not work.
[04:30] <Mithrandir> ogra: or cleaner: ln -sf /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X so you get the right name of the link in /etc/X11 too. :-P
[04:30] <hunger> ogra: startx won't work with symlinks.
[04:30] <ogra> hunger, it does here....
[04:31] <hunger> ogra: startx or kdm?
[04:31] <ogra> hunger, oh, startx is something else i dont care about currently
[04:31] <hunger> ogra: s/kdm/gdm/
[04:31] <ogra> hunger, what is kdm *g* ?
[04:31] <ogra> hunger, sure, gdm should work this way
[04:32] <ogra> hunger, but its likel that all this stuff will change randomly again once daniels took over again
[04:32] <ogra> likely even
[04:32] <hunger> ogra: Yeap, I'm heading back to hoary.
[04:33] <ogra> hunger, i'm just doing temporary fixes because i need a working LiveCD build this week
[04:34] <hunger> ogra: I am doing temporary fixes as I need a somewhat working computer;-)
[04:34] <ogra> heh
[04:36] <hunger> ogra: I prefer spending my time with setting up ubuntu on a encrypted HD with keys stored in the TPM chip to fixing X over and over again.
[04:37] <ogra> hunger, so its about time you become a MOTU and join daniles X team we just found here *g*
[04:40] <hunger> ogra: I have no clue how to become a MOTU.
[04:41] <ogra> hunger become a member first.... (i.e. create a wikipage about you, make some contribution like a howto wikipage, artwork or a bugfix, set yourself on the CC agenda and get approved)
[04:42] <hunger> ogra: Do updates to howtos count? I did some of those already.
[04:43] <ogra> hunger, after that, you join #ubuntu-motu an work a bit with the team to show your packaging skills (or to gain them...as you like) put yourself on the TB agenda and get approved as MOTU
[04:43] <ogra> hunger, it might be enough, depends....
[04:51] <dholbach> hi
[04:51] <dholbach> how do i fix X this time? :)
[04:52] <hunger> ogra: Damn... I need to remember my launchpad login for that... If only I could remember which of my email accounts I used for that... then guessing the password would be way easier;-)
[04:52] <syndicate> err... I'm messing around with dput, and I think I just uploaded my application's .deb to ubuntu
[04:53] <dholbach> syndicate, if you're in none of the keyrings, it will be ignored
[04:53] <syndicate> excellent
[04:53] <syndicate> I didn't realize the default in /etc/dput.cf was upload.ubuntu.com
[04:53] <dholbach> syndicate, what did you expect?
[04:54] <ogra> dholbach, i'm fixing X ... wait 20h until my testcompile is done and i can upload
[04:54] <ogra> or 30h
[04:54] <ogra> or 40
[04:54] <dholbach> ogra, and then another two hours?
[04:55] <ogra> dholbach, or fix the XKeysymDB links again
[04:55] <dholbach> ok
[04:55] <ogra> dholbach, mdz put in the wrong link target
[04:55] <dholbach> nasty nasty xorg
[04:55] <ogra> as i said 10 min ago... its a linkage maze
[04:55] <dholbach> i can imagine
[04:55] <syndicate> dholbach: I expected nothing
[04:56] <dholbach> and i don't blame anyone :)
[04:56] <ogra> dholbach, btw, \sh wants to get a kde package reviewed.... so you could get glom reviewed by him....
[04:57] <ogra> would give you the second reviewer
[04:57] <ogra> syndicate, sorry, that was my patch....
[04:57] <dholbach> ogra, later today, maybe after the MOTU meeting - i really want to work a bit on my thesis (when i got X working again)
[04:57] <ogra> syndicate, more people in ubuntu are uploading to ubuntu now ;)
[04:58] <tim_> MOTU meeting?
[04:58] <ogra> tim_, yes
[04:59] <tim_> whats that stand for?
[04:59] <tim_> meeting
[04:59] <tim_> of
[04:59] <ogra> tim_, 22:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting today
[04:59] <tim_> the
[04:59] <dholbach> tim_, wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[04:59] <tim_> ubuntu
[04:59] <syndicate> ogra: haha, that's awesome
[04:59] <syndicate> that's a subversive way to recruit developers :)
[04:59] <ogra> syndicate, yes, but we had to many complaints from debian *g*
[05:00] <ogra> syndicate, if i can get new devs, any way is right :)
[05:00] <syndicate> hey, whatever works :)
[05:01] <seb128> thom: firefox patch for epiphany: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=172346 (you probably drop it somewhere)
[05:01] <seb128> thom: if you can use it again for next upload ... :)
[05:02] <thom> seb128: noted
[05:02] <seb128> thanks
[05:03] <thom> ogra: ccache is love
[05:04] <ogra> thom, you mean it prevents me from overheating ?
[05:04] <dholbach> see you in a bit
[05:05] <ogra> thom, 4GB of ram is love.... at least 2 are ordered....
[05:05] <ogra> cmpiling x on 512MB is just silly....but i have no bigger machine around currently
[05:06] <thom> ogra: nod
[05:24] <ogra> ok, everybody crosses fingers....
[05:31] <ogra> hmm
[05:31] <Nafallo> ogra: ?
[05:31] <ogra> i still get the xkb error message... but it works fine...
[05:31] <ogra> on two independent setuos...
[05:32] <ogra> stups
[05:32] <ogra> setups MAN !
[05:32] <ogra> ok, it cant be worse then it is anyway, lets upload....
[05:32] <Lathiat> yeh xkb error isnt an issue
[05:32] <Nafallo> :-)
[05:33] <Nafallo> Lathiat: it is, but a minor compared... ;-)
[05:33] <ogra> Lathiat, it was gone before with my manual links
[05:33] <ogra> Lathiat, so i dont really understand why it still shows up.... even if i to the checks mentioned in the dialog, everything is fine...
[05:33] <ogra> s/to/do
[05:34] <Keybuk> don't suppose anyone knows what does bluetooth file transfers?

[05:34] <Lathiat> Keybuk: gnome-bluetooth
[05:34] <Lathiat> Keybuk: then you get the gnome obex stuff
[05:34] <Lathiat> Keybuk: can sendand recv then
[05:34] <Lathiat> wfm(tm)
[05:35] <tseng> livecd question.. is it true that removing something from the fs doesnt zero it and doesnt free all the space?
[05:35] <tseng> if so, whats the fix.
[05:36] <ogra> tseng, i could tell you if i had a working liveCD image yet....
[05:36] <ogra> tseng, but i probably can by the end of the week
[05:36] <tseng> well im pretty sure its true, a bunch of people experience it
[05:36] <ogra> depends on xorg
[05:36] <tseng> jdong said something about rsyncing it to another file
[05:36] <tseng> but.. he didnt document anything on the wiki
[05:36] <ogra> meh
[05:36] <tseng> yeah, big help
[05:37] <ogra> heh... like backports *g*
[05:37] <tseng> quite.
[05:38] <Keybuk> Lathiat: I did a Scan, it said it found it, but I don't "see" anything ?
[05:38] <Lathiat> go applications->system->bluetoothfilesharing
[05:39] <Lathiat> actually
[05:39] <Lathiat> hm
[05:39] <Lathiat> gnome-obex-send

[05:39] <Lathiat> theres a nautilus send-to patch floating aroudn to suport bluetooth
[05:39] <chmj> gnome-bluetooth-manager does nothing
[05:39] <Lathiat> but i dont think its integrated
[05:39] <dholbach> Keybuk: the nautilus right-click thingie is broken
[05:39] <Weems> has anyone texted the colony 1 cd?
[05:39] <Weems> texted*
[05:39] <Weems> tested*
[05:40] <Weems> Sorry I cant type very well.
[05:40] <Keybuk> dholbach: I'm trying to send from my phone to my computer
[05:40] <Keybuk> rather than the other way around
[05:40] <Kamion> Weems: those CDs are always tested before release
[05:41] <Weems> so it wont bork or anything?
[05:42] <chmj> Keybuk, is you phone pair with the computer ?
[05:42] <Lathiat> Keybuk: in taht case open bluetooth file sharing
[05:42] <Lathiat> Keybuk: from the system menu
[05:42] <Lathiat> Keybuk: and then send
[05:42] <Lathiat> Keybuk: you'll also need bluez-utils installed
[05:42] <Lathiat> then a dialog should popup
[05:42] <Keybuk> Lathiat: yup, got it
[05:47] <\sh> re
[05:52] <ogra> xorg_6.8.2-31_source.changes ACCEPTED
[05:53] <pitti> ogra: you broke X harder? :-)
[05:54] <ogra> pitti, i hope i didnt :)
[05:54] <\sh> ogra, dig a hole, jump inside the hole and put something over the hole ;)
[05:54] <ogra> at least it works, even if i still get the xkb eroor message.... but i'll let this one to daniels
[05:54] <ogra> \sh, after i filled it with cool water.... its way to warm here today
[05:55] <\sh> ogra, yeah :)
[05:55] <\sh> ogra, but when your update is repairing my X, I will hug you ;)
[05:55] <\sh> s/X/KDE/ ;)
[05:56] <ogra> \sh, i really didnt test KDE :)
[05:56] <ogra> \sh, but it works with gnome
[05:56] <\sh> ogra, i know :) but I will..:)
[05:56] <\sh> gnome is working just fine here ;)
[05:56] <ogra> \sh, if you find a fix, tell me... i have sthe surce here anyway
[05:56] <\sh> ogra, i have the source as well :)
[05:56] <chrissturm> ogra, you get the xkb error, but your keymap still works?
[05:57] <ogra> chrissturm, yeps
[05:57] <ogra> chrissturm, and that is what counts for the moment... i'm not the X maintainer and am not after being it ;)
[05:58] <ogra> its just a selfish cause that drove me to fix it.... sine i need a Breezy LiveCD this week....
[05:58] <ogra> since even
[05:58] <chrissturm> ogra: its strange that it doesnt work for me, i think i have the right links, but i will just wait for your packages
[05:59] <chrissturm> all keys i need for coding dont work :)
[05:59] <ogra> chrissturm, please report if they dont work
[05:59] <ogra> s/will/ will get
[05:59] <\sh> 7topic ogra broke it
[06:00] <ogra> meh
[06:00] <\sh> 7topic don't complain about X the next 70 weeks
[06:01] <Nafallo> \sh: ey! it will have to be in shape for the release ;-)
[06:01] <ogra> heh... nope, only until daniels is back
[06:01] <\sh> Nafallo, it should be in shape for the release ;)
[06:02] <Nafallo> \sh: 70 weeks are like... breezy+2 :-P
[06:03] <Amaranth> Nafallo: at least people won't complain about X for awhile
[06:03] <Nafallo> Amaranth: hehe
[06:03] <Amaranth> Nafallo: They'll complain about 70 weeks being too long instead.
[06:03] <\sh> Nafallo, right ;) so what...breezy without X -> forked debian distribution for geeks ;)
[06:04] <Nafallo> \sh: lol
[06:04] <ogra> Amaranth, would you like to help me on a project ? i need someone with decent menu spec knowledge
[06:04] <Amaranth> err, ok
[06:04] <Amaranth> does it have anything to do with WINE?
[06:05] <ogra> Amaranth, http://www.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
[06:05] <ogra> nope
[06:05] <Amaranth> oh, ok
[06:05] <\sh> Nafallo, anyways...70 weeks it's not much..we well release breezy+2 before etch ;)
[06:05] <ogra> its smeg on drugs
[06:06] <Nafallo> \sh: that was almost mean ;-)
[06:06] <Amaranth> oh, that's why someone requested group settings as a feature for smeg
[06:06] <Amaranth> afaik you can't do groups, not like you think
[06:06] <Nafallo> ogra: hehe, is that the description-field? ;-)
[06:06] <\sh> Nafallo, I know...but when I read all this crap on d-d sometimes u have to be mean ;)
[06:07] <Nafallo> \sh: indeed, that
[06:07] <Nafallo> \sh: indeed, that's why I
[06:07] <Nafallo> \sh: indeed, that's why I'm here instead of debian
[06:07] <ogra> Amaranth, i can do groups.... if i plug it in the layer above
[06:07] <Nafallo> STUPID KEYBOARD!
[06:07] <Amaranth> ogra: true
[06:08] <Amaranth> ogra: well, the latest PyXDG releases have this class called MenuEditor that does most of the work for me, so there isn't much to it anymore
[06:08] <ogra> Nafallo, nope, i guess teachers wouldnt like this description synopsis
[06:08] <ogra> Amaranth, ah
[06:08] <Nafallo> ogra: hehe :-)
[06:08] <ogra> Amaranth, i'll come back to you if the time is right
[06:08] <Kamion> \sh: which is kind of non-fun to deal with when you care about both projects
[06:08] <ogra> Amaranth, currently TeachersPet is still in planning stage
[06:09] <Amaranth> ah
[06:09] <Amaranth> that's what you were hired for? edubuntu work?
[06:09] <ogra> Amaranth, so if you have cool ideas... drop them at me :)
[06:09] <ogra> Amaranth, nope.... i was hied for my beautiful face, now they try to fit me in anywhere ;)
[06:09] <Amaranth> hehe
[06:09] <ogra> hired even
[06:09] <\sh> Kamion, well I read all the stuff, sometimes it's just like that, that there is a group of people, who wants to take action, but they can't because the boss doesn't say a word..it's a problem of too much democratic decisions
[06:11] <Kamion> \sh: sure, but while one of the reasons Ubuntu was created was because we filled a niche created by problems in Debian, that doesn't mean we're a "debian sux0rs" forum
[06:12] <\sh> Kamion, I'm not a "debian sux0r" but they should see the needs of the user
[06:12] <Nafallo> Kamion: I don
[06:12] <Nafallo> Kamion: I don't think we are :-).
[06:12] <Kamion> and some Debian people hang out here because they're curious about what we're doing, so we should be polite
[06:13] <Nafallo> Kamion: we only mentioned one of the problems that seems to be real hard to solve (i.e. all those flamewars).
[06:13] <\sh> I'm polite :) but let me have a little bit of my personal irony :)
[06:15] <Nafallo> I do believe etch is out in a year or so though :-)
[06:16] <Amaranth> Nafallo: Let's hope.
[06:16] <ogra> \sh, they have policies that simply keep them away from users needs in some places, in favor of policy....
[06:17] <ogra> \sh, but without these policys we couldnt even build ubuntu on top of debian, so there is nothing wrong with it
[06:17] <Nafallo> Debian serves a higher purpose than to be on each and everyones desktop IMO :-).
[06:17] <ogra> yeps
[06:19] <\sh> well, sometimes someone has to think over the policies and rules and adjust them to the present and future time.
[06:19] <Kamion> I see mdz's one of the Debian policy editors now, so perhaps he will help with that
[06:19] <\sh> that's not mean, that's not unpolite
[06:20] <Amaranth> if the computer is trying to read past a HD's end, what should i blame?
[06:20] <Amaranth> kernel, memory, HD, or program?
[06:20] <wasabi_> What?
[06:20] <Amaranth> [4296494.876000]  attempt to access beyond end of device
[06:20] <Amaranth> [4296494.876000]  hda1: rw=0, want=19029696640, limit=24219153
[06:21] <wasabi_> haha
[06:21] <wasabi_> I've never seen such a thing!
[06:21] <sladen> ''clearly these scary Ubuntu people are trying to take-over Debian''  ;-)
[06:21] <Kamion> sladen: er ... I wasn't in that meeting, I was excused
[06:21] <wasabi_> I wonder if that means a program tried to skip past the end of the block device?
[06:21] <Amaranth> wasabi_: That's encouraging.
[06:21] <Kamion> and I'm taking a vacation from the Debian release team at the moment
[06:21] <Amaranth> i think it happened when i started muine, that's the first app to go bad on me
[06:21] <Amaranth> and muine uses inotify...
[06:22] <tseng> no it doesnt
[06:22] <Amaranth> um
[06:22] <Amaranth> it does here?
[06:22] <tseng> elmo is holding that version
[06:22] <tseng> unless i snuck you one?
[06:22] <Amaranth> you did
[06:22] <tseng> oh.
[06:22] <tseng> nm then :)
[06:22] <carlos> fabbione, around?
[06:23] <fabbione> carlos: yes
[06:23] <carlos> fabbione, hi
[06:23] <fabbione> hi
[06:23] <carlos> fabbione, do you remember the PATA vs SATA I told you and that I reported this morning?
[06:24] <carlos> fabbione, I moved that server to breezy to test with latest kernel
[06:24] <fabbione> yes, but i didn't look at bugs yet today
[06:24] <carlos> but I'm not able to boot tha 2.6.12-1-686
[06:24] <carlos> get a kernel panic because it cannot open dev/console
[06:24] <Nafallo> tseng: I was about to say something, but remembered I built it from source :-P.
[06:25] <fabbione> carlos: hmmmmmm that looks more like a mkinitrd problem
[06:25] <fabbione> carlos: did you upgrade the entire machine to breezy in one shot?
[06:25] <carlos> fabbione, yes
[06:25] <carlos> and as I thought the same about mkinitrd
[06:25] <fabbione> carlos: can you try to just reinstall the kernel?
[06:25] <carlos> I removed the kernel with --purge
[06:26] <carlos> and installed it again
[06:26] <carlos> but still get the error
[06:27] <Amaranth> *groan*
[06:27] <Amaranth> system hardlock and broken X on reboot :)
[06:27] <fabbione> carlos: can you send the generated initrdimage to jbaley please?
[06:27] <fabbione> carlos: that error is really not kernel related
[06:27] <carlos> ok
[06:29] <ogra> doko, you want to conquer the debian release team ?
[06:30] <fabbione> carlos: /wind goto 6
[06:30] <fabbione> ops
[06:30] <carlos> fabbione, thanks
[06:30] <doko> ?
[06:30] <ogra> doko, or did you just attend for the fun of it ?
[06:30] <ogra> http://lwn.net/Articles/140570/
[06:30] <ogra> further attendends:
[06:30] <ogra> Ryan (neuro), Joerg (Ganneff), Frans (djp), Matthias (doko), Jeroen (jvw)
[06:30] <ogra> and further.
[06:30] <doko> looking at the followups, it was no fun ...
[06:30] <Kamion> ogra: doko's attendance was relevant due to the C++ transition
[06:30] <jvw> wtf, lwn copied the minutes?
[06:30] <ogra> ah
[06:31] <jvw> Joy
[06:31] <dholbach> jvw: they even copied the motu report :)
[06:31] <Kamion> although that's not minuted
[06:31] <Kamion> jvw: lwn are very very bored
[06:31] <jvw> yeah
[06:32] <jvw> instead they should run some conspiracy theories of canonical taking over Debian by employing the chairman of its highest technical board
[06:33] <fabbione> carlos: thanks for the pictures, but i need to see what few lines above that :(
[06:33] <fabbione> carlos: there is a line called EIP:
[06:33] <fabbione> carlos: that's the one we must catch
[06:33] <bob2> canonical could corrupt all those crucial tech board decisions!
[06:34] <fabbione> carlos: you can also try to boot using irqpool
[06:34] <jvw> bob2: every one of the bi-yearly ones!
[06:34] <fabbione> carlos: it looks to me a possible irq issue (note the do_IRQ calls)
[06:34] <bob2> I don't think I want a corporation deciding the output format of 'md5sum'.
[06:34] <jvw> heh
[06:36] <carlos> fabbione, the problem is that I cannot get anything else than what you have there
[06:36] <carlos> fabbione, the keyboard does not let me see the text before that
[06:36] <fabbione> carlos: i understand.. and my problem is that without EIP i can't debug :)
[06:37] <carlos> Only Ctrl+Scroll Lock works
[06:37] <carlos> fabbione, any suggestion to get it?
[06:37] <carlos> hmm
[06:37] <fabbione> carlos: not at the moment.. there is a sequence of keys to dump stuff
[06:37] <fabbione> but as usual i can never remember it
[06:37] <fabbione> my kernels don't crash on me
[06:37] <carlos> perhaps a boot with framebuffer so the display gets more lines?
[06:37] <fabbione> everybody should run on the same hw i have
[06:38] <fabbione> carlos: that's an idea
[06:38] <carlos> fabbione, :-)
[06:38] <zul> fabbione: you know napoleon was italian ;)
[06:38] <carlos> fabbione, ok, will try to figure a way to do that.
[06:38] <fabbione> carlos: great thanks
[06:44] <dholbach> see you
[06:46] <Nafallo> mdz: morning :-)
[06:46] <mdz> morning
[06:47] <fabbione> hey mdz
[06:47] <mdz> ogra: the xkb thing is not entirely fixed for me yet
[06:48] <ogra> mdz, wait fo -31
[06:48] <ogra> for
[06:48] <mdz> ah
[06:48] <Kamion> it's built on i386 and powerpc now
[06:48] <ogra> mdz, your link targets were wrong, you just restored the old ones, but the targets changed obviously
[06:48] <mdz> ogra: yes, I suspected
[06:49] <ogra> mdz, took me half the day to even see the error.... thanks to Kamion again...
[06:50] <carlos> is just my imagination or Breezy's GNOME/X are faster than Hoary's?
[06:50] <Nafallo> carlos: you're not the first one to say that... so :-)
[06:50] <carlos> wow, it's a big difference
[06:51] <ogra> i dont think someone has done any measurements yet
[06:51] <Nafallo> hehe, I believe I switched to breezy when it was created, so I wouldn't know :-)
[06:56] <fabbione> Dear Mdz and Ogra, please stop uploading X.org otherwise our poor unsupported buildd will never manage to get one in the archive. kthxbye :P
[06:56] <thom> dear sparc, compile faster, love ubuntu
[06:56] <ogra> fabbione, we have a unsupported buildd ?
[06:56] <fabbione> thom: hppa is affected too :)
[06:56] <fabbione> ogra: hppa/sparc?
[06:56] <Kamion> ogra: have done for ages
[06:57] <fabbione> this time sparc will make breezy
[06:57] <fabbione> we have 2 buildds!
[06:57] <ogra> fabbione, it thought it was well supported by pinhead and friends ;)
[06:57] <fabbione> and we are in front of hppa of a good %
[06:57] <fabbione> ogra: ehehe
[06:58] <fabbione> we only have one little tiny problem to solve... the kernel doesn't link properly with the breezy toolchain...
[06:58] <fabbione> just a minor detail
[06:58] <fabbione> hoary was due to gcc-4.0
[06:58] <fabbione> breezy will be to ?? <- we accept bets :P
[06:58] <mdz> fabbione: it is more important to get keyboards working on our supported architectures than to worry about unsupported ones
[06:58] <fabbione> mdz: i know man.. hence the ":P"
[06:59] <fabbione> it seems like you guys are timing uploads...
[06:59] <fabbione> right before i am signing the packages the new version hit the archive :)
[07:00] <thom> they're trying to save you from rsi
[07:02] <fabbione> rsi?
[07:02] <fabbione> is that a new desease for nerds?
[07:02] <Kamion> repetitive strain injury
[07:02] <fabbione> eheheh
[07:03] <fabbione> let's warm up davis...
[07:04] <fabbione> thom: should we try to beat concordia's top load?
[07:04] <fabbione> davis has more ram and should be able to manage :)
[07:07] <fabbione> Kamion: when would be ok for you to drop power3/power4 kernels?=
[07:07] <Burgundavia> jdub, can you look at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=308148
[07:09] <elmo> fabbione: dude, if you kill concordia again, lifeless will fly to .dk to teach you alesson
[07:10] <fabbione> elmo: i didn't even use it friday
[07:10] <fabbione> i didn't kill it
[07:10] <elmo> fabbione: hundreds would believe you; not me ;-P
[07:10] <fabbione> elmo: ahah i am loading davis for real now
[07:10] <fabbione> that machine is impressive
[07:11] <fabbione> -j500 and it's not suffering
[07:11] <Nafallo> lol
[07:11] <fabbione> it still has 300MB of free ram
[07:11] <ogra> fabbione, so push it to -800 then :) for the fun of it
[07:11] <fabbione> that means i could fork more
[07:12] <fabbione> ogra: -j800 would kill it
[07:12] <fabbione> and elmo as a consequence will kill me
[07:12] <ogra> yep
[07:12] <Nafallo> hehehe
[07:12] <ogra> fabbione, hey, he could sit longer in the ariconditioned DC then... you do him a favour
[07:12] <fabbione> elmo: hey consider me a good stress test for when we get new hardware :)
[07:12] <dilinger> fabbione: it's all about make -j$RANDOM
[07:13] <ogra> dilinger, wow, thats cool
[07:13] <fabbione> dilinger: ehehe
[07:13] <dilinger> or perhaps $((RANDOM/10))
[07:13] <fabbione> does anybody have the timestamp of when i said that it was spiking?
[07:14] <dilinger> if you want to see some values below 1000 sometimes :)
[07:14] <fabbione> and now
[07:16] <Kamion> fabbione: as long as there's a powerpc64 kernel or whatever replacing them
[07:20] <Kamion> why oh why does baz spit out *context* diffs in .rej files
[07:20] <Kamion> ?
[07:21] <Keybuk> that's traditional
[07:21] <Kamion> it's the 21st century
[07:21] <Keybuk> well, yes
[07:21] <Keybuk> more annoying are the .rej files that contain "Don't look here"
[07:21] <Keybuk> or somesuch
[07:22] <Keybuk> for complicated merges, I prefer .rej to 3diff, as emacs has a nice mode for it
[07:22] <elmo> ok, I think we need to introduce a penalty system for rapid successive uploads of xorg
[07:23] <Mithrandir> elmo: 2^n lashes with a whip (per 24 hour period)
[07:23] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: you'd enjoy that too much
[07:24] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I don't upload xorg.
[07:24] <fabbione> elmo++
[07:25] <cartman> X.org borked again?
[07:25] <Amaranth> most likely
[07:25] <Nafallo> cartman: always ;-)
[07:25] <Amaranth> xkb problems in -30
[07:25] <cartman> Nafallo: I swear -24 was working
[07:25] <cartman> Amaranth: startx doesn't work here
[07:25] <cartman> :/
[07:25] <bob2> -24 was a like 6 uploads and 3 hours ago
[07:25] <seb128> -24 works fine, I use thi sone :p
[07:25] <bob2> get with the times!
[07:25] <cartman> no /usr/bin/X11/X
[07:25] <Nafallo> cartman: -10 worked :-)
[07:25] <cartman> bob2: hehe
[07:25] <Amaranth> what version did we have last sunday?
[07:26] <seb128> yesterday?
[07:26] <Amaranth> no, the one before that
[07:26] <cartman> is /usr/bin/X11/X thing fixed in -31 ?
[07:26] <cartman> any ideas?
[07:26] <cartman> missing symlink?
[07:26] <cartman> xkb is easy
[07:26] <cartman> its just a missing symlink
[07:26] <Amaranth> whatever version that was, it worked great
[07:26] <seb128> probably -23
[07:26] <Amaranth> cartman: no, a patch got reverted or something
[07:26] <Keybuk> cartman: wrong path/missing symlink and not setuid
[07:26] <cartman> Keybuk: ah ah ah
[07:26] <Amaranth> ok then, -23 worked great for me :)
[07:27] <cartman> ok no X rebooting for a few days I guess ;)
[07:29] <Amaranth> i don't think it worked :)
[07:29] <cartman> lol
[07:29] <cartman> working startx would be good enough for me ;-)
[07:29] <Amaranth> cartman: -31 hit the mirrors, or something
[07:30] <Amaranth> cartman: try it
[07:30] <cartman> Amaranth: not for amd64 uet
[07:30] <cartman> yet*
[07:30] <Amaranth> ah
[07:30] <Amaranth> i didn't think any of them went out until they all finished
[07:30] <cartman> I am watching lamont's build logs :)
[07:30] <cartman> i386 & powerpc done
[07:30] <cartman> ah amd64 done too
[07:30] <cartman> lets see
[07:30] <Amaranth> xorg is a special case then?
[07:31] <Amaranth> oh, ok
[07:31] <cartman> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xorg/6.8 :)
[07:31] <lamont> the binary builds are all independant of one another
[07:31] <cartman> meh bad link but you figured it out
[07:32] <lamont> and the log files show up ~20 minutes after the build finishes.  This may or may not be before the bits actually hit the archive, since that happens every 30 minutes
[07:32] <cartman> btw is there a packages.debian.org like site for ubuntu?
[07:32] <cartman> that should probably go to #ubuntu
[07:33] <Nafallo> lamont: ooh, I didn't know there was a delay :-P
[07:33] <Mithrandir> cartman: yes, packages.ubuntu.com
[07:33] <Nafallo> cartman: guess? ;-)
[07:33] <cartman> lol
[07:33] <lamont> Nafallo: they're (currently) rsync'ed from where they get stored realtime, every 20 minutes
[07:33] <cartman> I am overlame
[07:33] <cartman> never tried that
[07:33] <lamont> (:[024] 0)
[07:33] <Nafallo> lamont: good to know :-) thanx
[07:34] <lamont> sometime soon, they'll be stored realtime on p.u.c.  The hint that that is happening will be the existance of hppa and sparc logs
[07:34] <Amaranth> chrissturm: good?
[07:34] <chrissturm> hmm, i still have the same error
[07:34] <Amaranth> the xkb one?
[07:34] <chrissturm> xkb error
[07:34] <chrissturm> and no national characters
[07:34] <cartman> chrissturm: startx works?
[07:34] <Nafallo> chrissturm: yea. but does the keyboard work anyway? :-)
[07:35] <Nafallo> :-/
[07:35] <chrissturm> my keyboard was always working, but no national chars
[07:35] <fabbione> Kamion: ok... we do have a ppc64 kernel. would you prefer me to Provides: power3/power4 or should we just play with linux-meta?
[07:35] <chrissturm> cartman: i dont use startx :)
[07:35] <Kamion> fabbione: nah, don't bother with provides
[07:35] <cartman> meh
[07:35] <fabbione> Kamion:ok
[07:35] <chrissturm> carman: i can try
[07:35] <cartman> [~] > startx
[07:35] <cartman> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: line 2: /usr/bin/X11/X: No such file or directory
[07:35] <Nafallo> chrissturm: that's not working. I don't have pipe when it's broken :-P.
[07:36] <cartman> chrissturm: do you have a /usr/bin/X11/X ?
[07:36] <cartman> no luck with -31
[07:36] <chrissturm> cartman; nope
[07:36] <cartman> chrissturm: don't restart ;-)
[07:37] <chrissturm> cartman: gdm is working
[07:37] <cartman> weird
[07:37] <chrissturm> cartman: chi% ls /etc/X11/X -l
[07:37] <chrissturm> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 17 2005-06-01 18:25 /etc/X11/X -> /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[07:37] <chrissturm> cartman: thats what gdm is using
[07:38] <cartman> same but startx doesn't work with that
[07:38] <daniels> chrissturm: infinity will fix all your problems with xorg
[07:38] <cartman> daniels: any idea about /usr/bin/X11/X ? where did it go? :)
[07:38] <daniels> mdz: i'm going to grab the sources and check it out; there's been no access at LT and I've been too broke to go to an internet cafe ;)
[07:38] <daniels> cartman: it should still be there, but it may have dropped out.  heh.
[07:39] <cartman> daniels: none in -29/-30
[07:39] <chrissturm> cartman: did you try to create the link manually?
[07:39] <cartman> -31 still not sure as xserver-xorg didn't hit yet
[07:39] <Kamion> -31 won't have changed that
[07:39] <cartman> meh :(
[07:40] <dilinger> daniels: is infinity the second coming of keithp or something?
[07:40] <daniels> dilinger: no, he's just my bitch :)
[07:40] <daniels> cartman: -30?  -31?
[07:40] <daniels> sweet jesus
[07:40] <lamont> daniels: THERE YOU ARE
[07:40] <dilinger> daniels: heh, nice
[07:40] <lamont> X is ftbfs
[07:40] <cartman> daniels: -29 & -30 at least
[07:40] <daniels> lamont: ... what?
[07:41] <lamont> on any archictecture that does not allow non-PIC in shlibs
[07:41] <lamont> libxext tries to creat such a shlib
[07:41] <cartman> lamont: yup
[07:41] <lamont> xorg then fails to meet build-deps
[07:41] <lamont> fix that.  kthxbye
[07:41] <cartman> breaks static linking on amd64
[07:41] <daniels> lamont: i don't have enough connectivity to fix it
[07:42] <lamont> daniels: hppa and ia64 are both architecures that'll die because of that..
[07:42] <lamont> daniels: is the fix easy?
[07:42] <lamont> that is, if you want to give me a theological overview, I'll fix it tonight.
[07:42] <daniels> lamont: i don't know what the fix is, bth
[07:42] <daniels> er, tbh
[07:42] <lamont> (build all-PIC, build twice, etc...)
[07:42] <lamont> there's the -pic.a solution, or delivering a .so as well as a .a for everything
[07:43] <lamont> then the .so's that depend on other libs, need to link _their_ .so against the other .so, etc.
[07:43] <lamont> I'll look at it tonight and pester you with a proposal, probably
[07:43] <daniels> i really haven't had any internet access here at all
[07:43] <lamont> ouch
[07:43] <lamont> where you at?
[07:43] <daniels> and now my BIOS is so badly broken that I can't get any semblance of X
[07:44] <daniels> linuxtag/european x developers' conference
[07:44] <lamont> X without X, eh?
[07:44] <daniels> i hacked the x86 emulator to ignore the invalid code the bios tries to call, and that just results in nothing drawing at all
[07:44] <daniels> it's all black
[07:44] <daniels> so I'm text-only, which is kind of limiting in terms of productivity
[07:44] <lamont> oh yeah.
[07:44] <daniels> bearing in mind that I can't run a sensible fb either for the same reason
[07:44] <lamont> but you still get 6 vt's. :-)
[07:44] <daniels> heh
[07:44] <daniels> sometimes
[07:44] <wasabi_> /usr/bin/screen
[07:44] <daniels> my VTs are currently disappearing
[07:45] <lamont> anyway, must meet someone for lunch
[07:45] <daniels> i've lost 5 and 6, they just won't render text
[07:45] <daniels> if you email me a fixy thingy, I'll hopefully look at it tomorrow
[07:45] <daniels> i'm told we'll have access at the main conference, and I just got paid today \o/
[07:45] <lamont> woot.
[07:45] <lamont> later
[07:45] <daniels> later dude, thanks
[07:45] <daniels> btw, Xext.so should be delivered fo'sho
[07:46] <daniels> if it's not, something's broken
[07:47] <daniels> oh, bloody hell
[07:47] <daniels> 1004 new messages
[07:47] <Nafallo> LOL
[07:48] <Nafallo> daniels: don't upload xorg on fridays ;-)
[07:49] <daniels> Nafallo: it's more that I've been offline for about a day and a half now
[07:49] <daniels> and, as far as I can tell, the world has fallen down wrt X
[07:49] <Nafallo> daniels: indeed :-)
[07:49] <Nafallo> daniels: that's why I use my girlfriends hoary barebone ;-)
[07:50] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: chicken.
[07:50] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: baah. I use my lappy when I watch "tv" ;-)
[07:50] <cartman> real man uses breezy on amd64 so it breaks in all ways
[07:50] <cartman> :p
[07:50] <KaiL_> lol
[07:50] <Nafallo> cartman: that's what my laptop is ;-)
[07:50] <cartman> Nafallo: lol cool
[07:54] <Nafallo> cartman: amd64 just hit the archive :-)
[07:54] <cartman> Nafallo: well doesn't fix my problem according to Kamion
[07:54] <Nafallo> cartman: nope :-)
[07:54] <cartman> :)
[07:55] <cartman> really amd64+gcc4 is teh broken setup
[07:55] <cartman> backtraces are like voodo scripts
[07:56] <lsuactiafner> lol
[08:00] <doko> ogra: heh, daniels is away, xorg uploads for everybody? ;-)
[08:01] <ogra> doko, want some ?
[08:01] <cartman> lol
[08:01] <ogra> ah, finally amd64 built
[08:02] <Nafallo> ogra: I let you try first ;-)
[08:02] <ogra> Nafallo, i'm already running my testbuild
[08:02] <ogra> @| all keys there....
[08:02] <Nafallo> ogra: hmm, I'll try it then :-)
[08:03] <cartman> ogra: you managed to have a /usr/bin/X11/X by any chance? :)
[08:03] <ogra> cartman, nope, i didnt know about that one....
[08:03] <ogra> cartman, ... since i use gdm
[08:03] <cartman> hmm startx refers to that
[08:04] <ogra> cartman, yes, i heard that...
[08:04] <ogra> cartman, cant you just link ?
[08:04] <cartman> ogra: X supposed to be a suid link I guess
[08:04] <cartman> I can try yeah
[08:04] <ogra> cartman, i would fix it, but elmo kills me if i make another upload today.... we have to collect the issues a bit
[08:05] <cartman> ogra: yup true
[08:05] <cartman> X is too big
[08:05] <ogra> and my neves wont bear another x upload todey ;)
[08:05] <cartman> :D
[08:05] <cartman> ogra: you will do a -32 then?
[08:06] <ogra> cartman, probably....
[08:06] <cartman> ogra: ok I better wait then
[08:11] <cartman> cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/ && sudo ln -s /etc/X11/xkb/
[08:11] <cartman> fixes xkb issues
[08:12] <cartman> even internet keys work :)
[08:13] <ogra> cartman, which issues ? they should be fixed with -31 thats what the upload was for
[08:14] <cartman> hmm
[08:14] <cartman> -31 fixes xkb issues?
[08:15] <tseng> thats what he said.
[08:15] <cartman> well lets do a full upgrade then
[08:24] <cartman> [~] > setxkbmap tr
[08:24] <cartman> Couldn't find rules file (xorg)
[08:24] <cartman> thats -31
[08:25] <ogra> cartman, its still not fully fixed, but should work
[08:25] <cartman> symlink missing as I said
[08:26] <cartman> [21:11]  <cartman> cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/ && sudo ln -s /etc/X11/xkb/
[08:26] <ogra> i.e. you should get the keymap thats in your xorg.conf
[08:26] <cartman> I see
[08:26] <ogra> xorg shouldnt look in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/ anymore....
[08:27] <cartman> it does so :/
[08:27] <ogra> (it probably still does, but it works over here)
[08:27] <ogra> which is with gdm and gnome
[08:27] <cartman> kdm starts fine btw
[08:30] <ogra> with your sudoed link ?
[08:30] <cartman> nope without
[08:30] <cartman> my fault, I only tried startx
[08:30] <ogra> ah, nice
[08:38] <mdz> ogra: -31 doesn't fix things for me :-/
[08:40] <mdz> [pid 24275]  open("/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[08:42] <cartman> mdz: cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/ && sudo ln -s /etc/X11/xkb/
[08:42] <cartman> temp fix
[08:42] <mdz> cartman: this is #ubuntu-devel :-)
[08:42] <mdz> our job is to fix it for everyone ;-)
[08:42] <cartman> ah well hmm
[08:42] <cartman> true that
[08:43] <mdz> ogra: does the current version work for you without any local symlinks?
[08:43] <mdz> it seems like we need both paths to work for now
[08:43] <ogra> mdz, yes
[08:43] <mdz> that's very strange
[08:43] <mdz> ogra: do you have a /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb ?
[08:43] <ogra> mdz, it still throws the error on startup, but works
[08:43] <mdz> ogra: try running setxkbmap in a terminal
[08:44] <ogra> returns silently
[08:44] <mdz> interesting
[08:44] <mdz> ogra: can you send an strace?
[08:44] <ogra> hmm, but i have a symlink there
[08:44] <ogra> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb
[08:44] <mdz> ogra: ^^ "without any local symlinks" :-)
[08:44] <mdz> that's not in the package
[08:44] <ogra> hrmpf
[08:45] <ogra> looks like i f*cked it....damned
[08:45] <ogra> yes, we seem to need both links
[08:45] <ogra> s/links/paths
[08:46] <mdz> fixing
[08:47] <ogra> oh...ok... so fabbione will kill you then, not me, nice, thanks
[08:47] <ogra> what a mess
[08:47] <Nafallo> hehe, cartman's startx bug then? :-)
[08:47] <ogra> oh, yes
[08:48] <ogra> cartman --> mdz fixes it... can you explain a sane fix for your startx prob ?
[08:49] <cartman> ok
[08:49] <cartman> [~] > startx
[08:49] <cartman> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: line 2: /usr/bin/X11/X: No such file or directory
[08:49] <cartman> since -29/-30/-31
[08:50] <cartman> my bet is X should be a suid root link to /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[08:50] <cartman> not sure though
[08:51] <popeyeray> helo
[08:52] <tseng> :(
[08:52] <ogra> tseng, ?
[08:53] <tseng> ^ X bugs
[08:53] <Kamion> cartman: (no such thing as a suid root link - /usr/bin/X11/Xorg itself should be the thing that's suid root)
[08:53] <mdz> cartman: X should point to Xwrapper
[08:53] <mdz> which is the only thing which is setuid root
[08:53] <mdz> the X server should not be setuid
[08:53] <cartman> mdz: ok
[08:54] <ogra> tseng, we are near the end ....
[08:54] <mdz> Xwrapper seems to be missing from the current packages though?
[08:54] <ogra> tseng, at least until daniels starts to work on it again ;)
[08:55] <mdz> ah, it's /usr/X11R6/bin/X
[08:57] <mdz> cartman: sudo ln -s /usr/X11R6/bin/X /usr/bin/X11/X
[08:57] <mdz> let me know if that fixes it
[08:58] <cartman> mdz: looks so
[08:59] <syndicate> what does archive.ubuntu.com use to manage the archive?  I'm using debarchiver, but I can't get the from address to be the person that uploaded it.
[09:00] <Kamion> dak
[09:00] <Kamion> you should only use dak for very large archives though
[09:00] <syndicate> yeah, mine's not so big :)
[09:00] <Kamion> and, I mean, we have the guy that wrote it to run it ;-)
[09:03] <mdz> does anyone know what the long-term plan is with regard to /usr vs. /usr/X11R6 vs. /usr/bin/X11?
[09:03] <mdz> this isn't in the XRoadmap at all
[09:03] <mdz> my understanding is that X11R6 is going away
[09:03] <Kamion> I believe /usr/bin/X11 -> /usr/bin, dunno about /usr/X11R6
[09:03] <ogra> i understood it as mdz...
[09:03] <mdz> but the current packages still ship a bunch of stuff there, and explicitly turned /usr/bin/X11 into a directory rather than a symlink
[09:04] <Nafallo> mdz: that's my understanding to.
[09:04] <mdz> in order to place symlinks in /usr/bin/X11
[09:20] <Amaranth> hrm
[09:20] <Amaranth> i forgot what logs to read when X is fubar
[09:21] <cartman> Amaranth: buildd logs *g*
[09:21] <cartman> and grepping for new X uploads :)
[09:24] <karlheg> Where do I find that Xorg maintainer?
[09:24] <karlheg> ;-p
[09:24] <ogra> Amaranth, just wait...
[09:24] <mdke> shhhh
[09:24] <karlheg> I wonder if he needs a look at the problem on my machine for a compare... it's broken, as expected.
[09:24] <Amaranth> ogra: will do
[09:25] <karlheg> ... Or should I just fix it by hand and assume he already knows what the problem is and that it's the same everywhere?
[09:25] <ogra> Amaranth, -32 should fix all remainig keyboard issues
[09:25] <Amaranth> only error i have in my logs is that the XKB keymap couldn't be found :)
[09:25] <Amaranth> but my X doesn't seem to start at all
[09:25] <Amaranth> well, it starts but i think all GTK things are broken, which means GDM dies
[09:25] <karlheg> Is /usr/lib/X11 a symlink or real directory?
[09:25] <\sh> new kde packages nice
[09:26] <mdz> ok, could firefox not crash when I use the right arrow key in a text area? kthxbye
[09:26] <karlheg> Mine is a symlink, and in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11, the XkeysymDB is a broken link to itself; it was made expecting to be in a read directory and pointing to where it is now.  So the real file is totally missing.
[09:27] <karlheg> It cannot find font 'fixed' either, probably due to similar problems.
[09:27] <sniker> hi, i've got a problem under amd64 when i try to compile the timeout 1.11-6 tarball...
[09:27] <mdz> karlheg: /usr/lib/X11 is a real directory; if yours isn't then your packages likely aren't up to date
[09:27] <karlheg> I wonder if I can just rm the bad links and re-install?  Or if those links are part of the system.tar ?
[09:27] <Amaranth> yep, this is a gtk issue, not an X issue
[09:27] <Amaranth> :/
[09:28] <karlheg> IIRC, I made it be a symlink by-hand, attempting to fix Xorg last week when I made the mistake of installing Breezy X.  Downgrade to Hoary got it working, but symlink is still there...  It seems to me that it ought to be a symlink.
[09:29] <karlheg> I don't get why it would be split across a real directory and symlinks the way it is.
[09:29] <karlheg> *sigh*
[09:30] <karlheg> At least this time I knew not to exit my session before testing it with a second login.
[09:30] <ogra> karlheg, it just gets fixed.... wait a while and upgrade to the next xorg version
[09:30] <karlheg> I'll fix it later; I've too many buffers on the stack atm.
[09:31] <mdz> thom,chmj: is there any information I should collect about why NM runs me out of disk space via syslog?
[09:31] <karlheg> Does it manage those symlinks, I wonder?  Perhaps I will need to purge and reinstall to get it into the canonical state, to where the packages expect things to really be wrt real directories and symlinks.
[09:31] <mdz> karlheg: no, it oughtn't be a symlink.  if you put one there, you should reverse your changes
[09:31] <mdz> the packages will not fix it for you if you changed things by hand
[09:31] <karlheg> That's difficult since I had to move files... and don't have a record of what I moved.
[09:31] <shaya> is there a reason the Xserver isn't being setuid root?
[09:32] <shaya> keep on fixing that and it keeps on reverting back
[09:32] <shaya> on upgrades
[09:32] <karlheg> Why isn't it a symlink into the /usr/X11R6 tree?
[09:32] <mdz> seb128: what happened with gstreamer 0.9?
[09:32] <mdz> seb128: does this mean that video playback will not improve for breezy? that is very important
[09:32] <mdz> karlheg: /usr/X11R6 is being phased out
[09:32] <ogra> karlheg, because X11R6 will go
[09:32] <mdz> especially since it isn't R6 anymore
[09:33] <karlheg> totem-xine works really well, but totem-gstream lags bigtime.  I have never gotten it to work right.  It cannot thumbnail as well either.
[09:33] <karlheg> ahuman01, ok.  So everything will go into the main system, rather than as a "side package" kind of thing.
[09:33] <shaya> karlheg: totem-xine has issues for me, hangs on a regular basis, have to resort to mplayer many times now
[09:33] <karlheg> Is that new FHS, or just an Xorg devel decision?
[09:33] <karlheg> "just a"... :-)
[09:34] <sniker> hi, someone can help me with the timeout 1.11-6 package for amd64, i've some errors when i compile it...
[09:35] <Amaranth> karlheg: totem isn't used to thumbnail afaik
[09:35] <karlheg> Maybe I'm confused.
[09:35] <Amaranth> karlheg: pretty sure that always uses gstreamer
[09:35] <ogra> sniker, might be the reason why there isnt a binary...
[09:36] <ogra> sniker, if even our buildd couldnt build it
[09:36] <Amaranth> anyone else's GTK completely dead?
[09:36] <hunger> Any chance of getting a upgrade for the wireless utils in hoary?
[09:36] <hunger> madwifi faq claims that the trouble I am having with that card is due to outdated wireless tools:-(
[09:36] <ogra> hunger, unlikely.... any dataloss bug ? or security probs ?
[09:37] <karlheg> /etc/alternatives/gnome-video-thumbnailer -> /usr/bin/totem-video-thumbnailer*
[09:37] <sniker> ogra: yes, but some other disrtro like gentoo have it for amd64...
[09:37] <hunger> ogra: No, plain "Dosen't work at all" bug:-(
[09:38] <ogra> sniker, no MOTU jhad time for it yet... it will be ixed for the release...
[09:39] <sniker> mmm... ok, so i must wait...
[09:39] <ogra> sniker, breezy is a development branch, dont expect things to work...
[09:39] <ogra> sniker, or start to become a MOTU ;)
[09:39] <karlheg> ... work on things.
[09:40] <sniker> ogra: what is a MOTU?
[09:41] <cartman> Masters Of The Universe
[09:41] <cartman> sniker: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
[09:41] <sniker> ok.. :-)
[09:44] <hunger> Damn... hoary even has the latest stable wireless utils:-(
[09:46] <karlheg> hunger, See if the newer one is in breezy.  If it won't install, get the source and build it yourself.
[09:46] <karlheg> apt-get install apt-src && apt-src install wireless-utils
[09:47] <karlheg> hunger, you'll have to do that in two lines; and add breezy to sources.list, apt-get update, get source, comment breezy out again, build it.  If it's not newest, you'll have to update it yourself to newest upstream if you want to use it, until it's maintainer gets to it.
[09:52] <Amaranth> wow, kubuntu-desktop is installable again
[09:53] <hunger> karlheg: There isent. I build my own already.
[09:55] <hunger> karlheg: This damn laptop is just too new for ubuntu...
[09:56] <Amaranth> ok, this must not be a GTK error, kdm dies the same way
[09:56] <Amaranth> glad to have that sorted out
[09:59] <Amaranth> sweet, F1 is A
[09:59] <Amaranth> F2 is B, etc
[10:10] <mdz> fabbione: ready to move to 2.6.12 as default soon?
[10:10] <ogra> mdz, he said so, this morning
[10:13] <mdz> ogra: he said soon, or now?
[10:13] <ogra> soon iirc
[10:17] <\sh> hmmm...
[10:17] <\sh> lintian is broken
[10:17] <\sh> W: njam: non-standard-dir-perm usr/share/ 0655 != 0755
[10:17] <\sh> but there is no /usr/share 655 in the deb archive ;)
[10:17] <ogra> mdz, [12:50]  <fabbione> sabdfl: 2.6.12 final will be on the way today or tomorrow...
[10:18] <mdz> ok
[10:18] <ogra> mdz, so rather now :)
[10:18] <chrissturm> that just means that a package based on final 2.6.12 will be ready tomorrow, and not that it will be default from then
[10:19] <ogra> chrissturm, that means that you will see it in main very soon.... and then it will be the default
[10:20] <chrissturm> ah, right
[10:24] <CarlK> if I promice to do some controled breezy testing with my AP's at home, can I get some help connecting hoary to an AP that is using wep?
[10:26] <doko> pitti: anything you need from me to get the OOo2 build-deps into main?
[10:33] <karlheg> CarlK, Ask on #ubuntu; man interfaces, man ifup, apt-get install wpasupplicant; man wpasupplicant; ls /etc/network; explore.
[10:34] <CarlK> karlheg - I did, didn't get very far.. was hoping to esculate this to a dev issue ;)
[10:35] <karlheg> It's not a devel issue, it's a support issue.
[10:35] <karlheg> \join #ubuntu
[10:35] <karlheg> (oops; wrong slash...)
[10:36] <CarlK> right, but there is a devel issue somewhere here.  I just havn't gotten around to setting up WEP on my home AP to test and bugzilla it
[10:36] <karlheg> CarlK, see you on #ubuntu?
[10:38] <justin> CarlK: didn't I tell you before how to use wep?
[11:08] <carlos> jbailey, hi, around?
[11:12] <mdz> daniels: I need for ctrl+alt+Fn vt switching to get fixed; it's crippling LTSP testing

[11:15] <lu|away> (1) you guys are already using LTSP?
[11:15] <lu|away> (2) you're not using VNC?
[11:16] <ogra> lu|away, yeps, i want to make a first edubuntu liveCD this week
[11:16] <lu|away> cool
[11:16] <ogra> it should run with the new ltsp packages if i get this working
[11:16] <lu|away> oh
[11:16] <lu|away> _oh_
[11:17] <Firetech> What exactly does the ubuntu kernel packages do? In other words, what can go wrong if I install a kernel.org official kernel (2.6.12 for example)?
[11:17] <lu|away> I have LDTP on the brain
[11:17] <lu|away> anyway
[11:17] <lu|away> that's cool
[11:17] <lu|away> very cool
[11:17] <ogra> Firetech, you miss a finegrained set of patches :)
[11:18] <Firetech> ogra: but what does those patches do?
[11:18] <ogra> lu|away, heh, nope, its for your mono classes...
[11:18] <ogra> Firetech, the changelog can tell you
[11:18] <Firetech> in the linux-pathces-ubuntu-* package?
[11:18] <Firetech> *...-patches-...
[11:20] <ogra> /usr/share/doc/linux-amd64-k8/changelog.Debian.gz
[11:20] <ogra> is it for me
[11:20] <Firetech> oh
[11:29] <Firetech> it seems to be mostly security patches.
[11:30] <mdz> gah, the new gaim has broken ^W
[11:33] <mdz> ogra: who was lu|away?
[11:34] <ogra> luis villa
[11:34] <mdz> oh
[11:34] <ogra> or luis_ :)
[11:34] <luis_> me
[11:34] <mdz> we used to have a different lu around here
[11:34] <luis_> I was mostly just confused :)
[11:34] <luis_> I am the man of many lu
[11:34] <luis_> given that luis is registered by someone else
[11:37] <seb128> luis_: opinion on pango 1.9/GNOME 2.12?
[11:39] <luis_> same generic worries as other stuff
[11:39] <luis_> I'll happily test a package if you want to package it :)
[11:40] <seb128> luis_: I've packaging it atm, but was wondering if that's rather like glib and good for the archive or like gtk and good for my webpage
[11:40] <seb128> luis_: what do you fear from pango? slowness? crashers ?
[11:41] <luis_> ah
[11:41] <luis_> crashers, mostly
[11:41] <luis_> though you might want to ask owen about the perf implications of the cairo backend?
[11:41] <seb128> nop, I'll upload to my webpage and keep waiting for discussions on the GNOME lists
[11:42] <seb128> I really think that 2.12 should have GTK 2.8 and we should push to this direction
[11:42] <luis_> I agree, but I don't see anyone leading the pushing, I guess
[11:42] <luis_> except you
[11:42] <luis_> the fc guys should be pushing it to fc4 users, don't see that happening
[11:43] <luis_> ditto novell/suse 9.3
[11:44] <seb128> I'm not sure about gtk but I don't feel pango 1.9 beeing a real issue
[11:44] <seb128> jdub: around? :)
[11:44] <luis_> yeah
[11:44] <luis_> pango is way less likely
[11:44] <luis_> to be a problem
[11:44] <luis_> though someone should test the perf


[09:00] <lolek> hello all
[09:06] <mgz> morning!
[09:09] <lolek> erm... guys... i'm a bit confused... few days ago we're looking for some new versioning system. The problem was that one of the developers is using M$ platform. From what i've read bzr has got better support for m$ than for example git, but after few days i see that: bzr-eclipse plugin is... not maintained since 2008 o.O!, bzr-svn plugin doesn't have maintainer also... and my question is ... what's up...? is bazaar really a good alternative for versioning s
[09:11] <mgz> lolek: you hit the length limit
[09:30] <lolek> mgz: erm.. what was the last word you got ?
[09:32] <mgz> it was probably the last bit, "for versioning s"
[09:33] <mgz> anyway, in my experience, yes, it is, but not all plugins are as well maintained as others (bzr-svn is actually pretty well cared for, jelmer has just switched job recently)
[09:33] <mgz> and the future is a little uncertain, but people do care about bzr
[09:36] <lolek> ok here is the last part
[09:36] <lolek> system for commercial usage ? i know.. i see it's working ok for canonical, but for me ok.. bzr-svn i can live without that, but bzr-eclipse ?
[09:45] <mgz> so, people have very different attitudes to ide intergration
[09:46] <mgz> the basic issue there is you need someone who uses that ide to work on the plugin, it's not something someone else can easilly pick up
[10:27] <lolek> well i understand that
[10:28] <lolek> what i can say now, that the bzr-eclipse plugin is missing just one thing for me/us... the compare to specific revision/url
[10:28] <lolek> that's all
[10:33] <mgz> lolek: then it's really worth looking at just adding that
[10:34] <mgz> I'd be happy to assist if you have questions, but don't use eclipse
[10:34] <lolek> well ok
[10:34] <lolek> but i don't thing that my skill will allow me to add that functionality ;)
[10:35] <lolek> s/skill/skills
[11:59] <venefyxatu> I've recently learned about mercurial queues, and now that I'm using it to work on several different changesets within one branch, move them around, reorder, apply/unapply as necessary I'm beginning to really love it - is there something like this available for bzr?
[11:59] <venefyxatu> (sort of like shelve on steroids, I believe)
[12:16] <lolek> guys, i've hitted something like: http://pastebin.com/7RhxJbiM, it's error from bzr-notify...
[12:16] <lolek> any idea what could be wrong.. it's ubuntu 12.04/amd64
[12:30] <mgz> lolek: just disable bzr-notify, see bug 998994
[12:31] <lolek> :/
[12:31] <mgz> it's not used for anything significant is bzr-gtk
[12:35] <lolek> hmm don't get it ?
[12:42] <mgz> lolek: see the linked merge proposal, the code has been removed in newer versions of bzr-gtk
[12:46] <lolek> oh
[12:50] <lolek> hmm, so bzr-notify is no longer available ? i.e. it will be removed ?
[12:54] <mgz> lolek: are you actually using it, or did you just notice it breaking?
[12:55] <lolek> well i was trying to use it :)
[13:00] <lolek> i saw how this is working at my friends desk, and it's nice tool
[13:01] <lolek> and the funiest thing is he also have ubu 12.04 but .. he is using unity, and i'm using gnome-shell
[13:46] <jelmer> lolek: bzr-notify has been removed in bzr-gtk trunk
[13:47] <lolek> well that's not good
[13:47] <jelmer> lolek: mostly since there were a fair number of issues like the one you hit, and they'd been open for quite some time
[13:48] <lolek> hmm
[13:48] <lolek> and.. do You plane to give some other app for the same functionality ?
[13:49] <jelmer> lolek: perhaps if somebody steps up to do so. nobody was taking care of bzr-notify, that was one of the reasons we decided to eventually remove it.
[13:49] <lolek> :/
[15:00] <lolek> jelmer: well i've made one thing, added the missing argument as: None and.. bzr-notify is working
[15:01] <jelmer> lolek: ah, nice
[15:01] <lolek> but there is one problem
[15:02] <lolek> notification is working i see the popup with two buttons: Inspect and Branch... neither of them is working... what should the buttons ?
[15:02] <lolek> *what the buttons should do ?
[15:04] <jelmer> what their labels say :-)
[15:04] <lolek> Inspect / Branch
[15:04] <jelmer> Inspect used to open a particular revision in "bzr viz"
[15:05] <jelmer> and Branch launches the clone window
[15:05] <lolek> hmm ok
[15:05] <lolek> so both are not working ;d
[15:05] <lolek> and i dunno why :]
[15:08] <lolek> anyway i see tha problem
[15:10] <lolek> it's related to gnome-shell vs unity .. the way that they use the notification, i.e. unity doesn't allow to place buttons in notifications, while gnome-shell do... maybe there would be a possibility to, create bzr-notify as systray app, after that we could show notifications for both gnome-shell and unity  in the same way, and add to that tray options: (inspect last commit/branch last commit) ?
[15:10] <lolek> thanks to that the bzr-notify will work as usually, and both worlds would be happy
[15:11] <lolek> jelmer: what do You think about that ?
[15:11] <jelmer> lolek: that's what bzr-notify did - it supported both the appindicator API for unity and the regular systray stuff for GNOME2
[15:12] <lolek> well yeah but from what i saw on the launchpad it seems that bzr-notify will be removed.. and that's said... :(
[15:13] <jelmer> lolek: it's already been removed
[15:13] <lolek> hmm
[15:13] <lolek> bzr uncommit ?:D
[15:14] <jelmer> lolek: as I said, it hadn't been maintained in a while and there were a number of open issues with it; I don't think bringing it back without addressing that would be a good idea.
[15:14] <lolek> i can agree
[15:14] <lolek> but.. if so.. is there any replacement for that ?
[15:15] <jelmer> lolek: no, there's nothing that does anything similar at the moment
[15:15] <lolek> hmm
[15:24] <lolek> ok, be back tomorrow, bye
[20:21] <evillyEvil> How do I revert all files EXCEPT some certain files in a project to the last commit state?
[20:23] <evillyEvil> or is that even possible?
[21:01] <fullermd> Not as a single step.
[21:02] <fullermd> You could do some dancing around sh-ery with status and revert.  You could shelve the changes you want, revert, then unshelve 'em.
[21:20] <dpb___> I have a weird bzr symlink-shared-repo problem.  I wrote a test case.  Should this just be a bug, or is there something I'm doing wrong?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1354131/
[21:24] <dpb___> note: the fact that the symlink points higher up in the chain is meaningless, it just needs to point somewhere outside the shared repo.
[21:27] <fullermd> It's probably another incidence of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/995055
[21:36] <dpb___> fullermd: thanks.  We have a workaround for it in our narrow case. (unwind the symlink before handing it to bzr).
[21:44] <thumper> abentley: ping
[21:44] <abentley> thumper: pong
[21:45] <thumper> abentley: I have a pipeline question for you
[21:45] <abentley> Sure, what's the question?
[21:45] <thumper> abentley: I managed to get some fucked up situation in my current checkout, so I moved it and re checked out trunk
[21:45] <thumper> abentley: went into that directory and did 'bzr pipes' expecting only trunk
[21:45] <thumper> abentley: but it had the other branch there too
[21:45] <thumper> abentley: why?
[21:46] <abentley> thumper: The pipeline data is associated with the branches, not the checkout.  It is stored in .bzr/branch/branch.conf.
[21:47] <thumper> ok
[21:47] <thumper> ta
[21:47] <abentley> np
[21:47] <thumper> abentley: that was simple wasn't it?
[21:47] <abentley> :-)
[21:47] <thumper> btw, still using pipelines daily
[21:49] <abentley> Glad to hear it.
[23:49] <felipec> what should I use instead of ControlDir.open(url) in older versions of bzr?
[23:49] <jelmer> felipec: BzrDir.open(url)
[23:52] <felipec> jelmer: cool
[23:52] <felipec> that should be OK for newer versions as well, right?
[23:53] <jelmer> felipec: I had plans to deprecate BzrDir.open because of ControlDir.open, but that hasn't happened yet
[23:53] <jelmer> s/yet//
[23:58] <felipec> all right
[23:58] <felipec> jelmer: what about this error? http://pastie.org/5368946
[23:59] <felipec> er, last line: TypeError: __init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'help'
[23:59] <jelmer> felipec: what's the actual exception?