[12:54] <mhb> Riddell: there was some moving with the Kubuntu testing pages
[12:55] <mhb> Riddell: somebody deleted all my modifications to the page and made only a Dailies only page at Testing/Current/Kubuntu
[12:59] <mhb> Riddell: someone should have informed me that we're switching to a dailies only mode before deleting all my attempts of simplifying the wiki page for new testers
[01:01] <ryanakca> mhb: maybe revert the wiki pages and then modify them yourself?
[01:01] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm not like the others
[01:02] <mhb> ryanakca: we would end up reverting each other's pages
[01:02] <mhb> ryanakca: it's kind of stupid deleting the whole page without notifying the testing team
[01:03] <ryanakca> mhb: well, revert, and place a note saying "Please do not modify unless you are on the testing team"...
[01:03] <mhb> ryanakca: last modifications were from a Canonical guy (which does Ubuntu development) and Hobbsee
[01:03] <ryanakca> there should be a link at the bottom saying who deleted / modified it too, contact them and ask them to ask the team before modifying...
[01:03] <ryanakca> ah
[01:04] <ryanakca> hmm...
[01:04] <ryanakca> no clue :)
[01:04] <firephoto> maybe they're just figuring they'll aggregate everything from irc and forum test reports? it kind of looks that way to me.
[01:04] <mhb> ryanakca: can you do me a favor? If Hobbsee arrives and you're here, tell her about my last few lines, okay?
[01:04] <ryanakca> sure
[01:07] <mhb> firephoto: yes, but there has been added a certain degree of unusability
[01:07] <mhb> firephoto: for example, the daily CD build is not a link, it's just a number
[01:08] <mhb> firephoto: you can't find a download link, it sends you to Testing/Current which also doesn't say anything about links, it links you back to that page
[01:10] <firephoto> yep, bugs in one place, results in another, howto somewhere else.
[01:10] <mhb> firephoto: I haven't found ANY Howto find the download links, though.
[01:11] <firephoto> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/HowTo is all i see for instructions.
[01:11] <mhb> firephoto: hmm...
[01:11] <mhb> firephoto: can you get there from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/Kubuntu ?
[01:11] <mhb> firephoto: with only your mouse
[01:11] <firephoto> no, it links from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[01:12] <mhb> firephoto: oh, you mean the small link at the top?
[01:12] <mhb> it's hardly visible
[01:12] <firephoto> right.
[01:12] <mhb> firephoto: the bold text is the center of my concentration
[01:12] <mhb> and that returns me back. Oh jolly.
[01:13] <firephoto> yep, i clicked around for 5 minutes looking and reading then i saw the howto link.
[01:15] <Riddell> mhb: what had you added?
[01:15] <Riddell> mhb: the reshuffle of pages seems to be part of an attempt to make a new forums testing team
[01:15] <mhb> Riddell: hmm, great
[01:15] <mhb> Riddell: why had nobody informed me about it?
[01:16] <Riddell> mhb: I guess they don't know about kubuntu-testers, it's heno you want
[01:17] <mhb> Riddell: I don't think Hobbsee (who deleted my stuff and linked to the dailies-only stuff) doesn't know testers
[01:17] <Riddell> oh, I don't know then
[01:18] <mhb> Riddell: it seems like somebody has been put in charge of a project I don't know about.
[01:19] <mhb> Riddell: are testers going to be disbanded?
[01:20] <mhb> hmm, I need to sleep now, goodnight all
[01:21] <Jucato> g'night mhb!
[01:27] <ryanakca> night mhb
[01:45] <manchicken> w00t.
[01:45] <manchicken> I got a nice little dark theme going...
[01:45] <manchicken> But it's kinda... dark.
[01:46] <Riddell> mhb: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-January/023105.html
[01:46] <manchicken> This flat SVG icon set is quite nice though.
[01:46] <Riddell> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=201
[01:54] <nixternal> so what is the Herd2 release looking like? late?
[02:03] <Riddell> nixternal: tomorrow european morning
[02:17] <manchicken> mmm... green...
[03:59] <manchicken> I wonder if the folks over at Linden are going to make .debs for SecondLife.
[04:53] <jdong> manchicken: sure, they just run alien on their RPM's :D
[04:53] <jdong> *cough* BitTorrent 5.x.x debs *cough* :D
[04:58] <Hobbsee> heya jdong
[04:58] <jdong> hi Hobbsee
[05:09] <manchicken> torrent is great for free software ^_^
[05:09] <manchicken> jdong: The SecondLife client is now Free Software.
[05:16] <jdong> manchicken: what does that have to do with decent packaging?
[05:16] <jdong> ;-)
[05:16] <jdong> Beryl took half a year to get decent packaging
[05:16] <jdong> and BitTorrent IMO is still fairly free software
[05:18] <ajmitch> beryl has decent packaging now?
[05:18] <manchicken> jdong: I want GPL'ed java.
[05:18] <jdong> manchicken: it's soon to happen
[05:19] <jdong> ajmitch: imbrandon uploaded a beryl to feisty :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: imbrandon did it
[05:19] <ajmitch> finally..
[05:19] <jdong> ajmitch: I would assume that'd be top-caliber packaging :)
[05:20] <jdong> it needs to be bumped to 0.1.4 though :)
[05:21] <ajmitch> then go ahead & do it
[05:37] <Hobbsee> manchicken: yay :)
[05:59] <Jucato> hm... would anyo of you know if our Qt in Kubuntu is built with -dlopen-opengl or not?
[08:22] <mhb> Hobbsee: poke
[08:30] <Hobbsee> mhb: poke back :)
[08:30] <mhb> Hobbsee: hi
[08:30] <mhb> Hobbsee: did you know about the fact that non-daily testing will happen only at the forums?
[08:31] <mhb> Hobbsee: I've noticed you modified the Testing/Kubuntu/Current , so I thought you did
[08:31] <Hobbsee> mhb: sorry?  non-daily testing?
[08:32] <mhb> Hobbsee: testing something other than daily CDs
[08:32] <Hobbsee> mhb: ie, what are they testing?
[08:32] <Hobbsee> are you talking about #kubuntu-testers, or what?
[08:33] <mhb> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/Kubuntu is currently for daily-CD installation testing, or so it seems
[08:35] <Hobbsee> mhb: i'll ask mithrandir / heno why
[08:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: ah, it's moved to the kubuntu section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Short
[08:37] <mhb> Hobbsee: still only about dailies, or so I understand
[08:39] <mhb> Hobbsee: no place for dist-upgrade testing, no place for testing the Herd CDs themselves, not only the latest dailies
[08:40] <mhb> Hobbsee: the layout of the page seems to indicate only daily CDs and regressions are tested
[08:41] <mhb> Hobbsee: dist-upgrading needs to be tested too IMO, same as new features
[08:51] <mhb> Hobbsee: my point is that testing dailies only is not much fun and restricting testers to boring stuff only won't make them very productive
[08:55] <Hobbsee> mhb: latest daily's become herd cds themselves
[08:55] <Hobbsee> and they dont ask for people to test cds, if they're not releasing a herd release
[08:56] <Hobbsee> true - the forum stuff appears to be testing only to-be releases - which was a canonical job mostly ,before
[08:56] <Hobbsee> mhb: i'm not sure that actual testing of the DE as such on feisty is being asked for at all, or has previously
[08:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: well, I thought the idea behind k-t was to get people together who will test
[08:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: just about anything they want
[08:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: and that I/we should give them the chance
[08:59] <mhb> Hobbsee: I understand that if you say "it's not being asked for anymore" , you think yourself it's not needed
[09:00] <mhb> Hobbsee: what should we do with the Kubuntu Testing team then?
[09:00] <mhb> Hobbsee: in the light of the recent events your question remains valid
[09:01] <Hobbsee> mhb: on the contrary.  the cd testing stuff of *ubuntu is separate from the KT - although the KT will presumably test the cds from time to time, as we grow closer to each herd release.  as it currently stands, i suspect they need to be given instructinos on where to test, and how to report their results
[09:05] <mhb> Hobbsee: maybe it's time to reconsider the structure
[09:05] <mhb> Hobbsee: forums might be a good idea because it's easier to post there
[09:05] <Hobbsee> mhb: really, KT is whatever you want it to be - and you can ask htem to test specific areas, until those areas get perfect - or go with the mozilla smoke test idea, as done with the cds with the short section, and get a variety of feedback widely
[09:05] <Hobbsee> noo....not the forums...
[09:06] <mhb> Hobbsee: no?
[09:06] <Hobbsee> do you have any idea how many people hate the forums?
[09:06] <mhb> Hobbsee: I don't
[09:06] <Hobbsee> also, ubuntuforums tends to be pretty dodgy, unless they're testing something very specific like a cd
[09:07] <Hobbsee> else they just come back wiht some correct feedback, and lots of chatter about other bugs, or sections that i'd specifically not asked for feedback on, etc
[09:07] <Hobbsee> (eg.  do wifi cards work with current kernel - do not give me feedback if you need ndiswrapper to make your card work)
[09:07] <Hobbsee> or if the card works, but not with networkmanager
[09:08] <Hobbsee> a whole heap of the responses i got back fell into those two categories
[09:08] <Hobbsee> so i'm unconvinced that forums are the way to go - at least UF.
[09:08] <Hobbsee> mhb: i think that reconsidering structure, etc is wise.  giving people a concrete plan of what we want is also hlepful
[09:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: probably, the wide testing (ie, testing kdesu works, screensavers, etc) would be done when we get a new release of KDE
[09:10] <Hobbsee> if they're running feisty, they're probably reporting bugsd anyway, on what they randomly find is wrong.
[09:10] <Hobbsee> i'd suggest that the testers would apply to situations like "we've done a whole lot of work on this feature, can you test it, and see how it works, fi there are any regressions"
[09:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'm listening
[09:11] <Hobbsee> mmm...drat.  i wasnt going to send that money there yet
[09:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: sorry .o)
[09:11] <Hobbsee> it's fine :)
[09:12] <Hobbsee> it's been happening for a while - otn just from irc
[09:13] <Hobbsee> mhb: do you think any of that is vaguely sensible idea?
[09:13] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes
[09:13] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: also wants to be involved
[09:13] <Hobbsee> (aiee, how'd my credit card get that high?)
[09:14] <mhb> the biggest pain of all for a hypothetical tester was editing a wiki, anyway
[09:14] <Hobbsee> if it's well formatted, it shouldnt be hard
[09:14] <Hobbsee> and they dont need extra logins, etc
[09:14] <Hobbsee> wiki formatting is awful, though.  asking testers to do that would be very mean :P
[09:17] <mhb> Hobbsee: so we'd do a page where the current stuff that needs to be tested is located?
[09:17] <Hobbsee> mhb: ie;
[09:17] <Hobbsee> ATTENTION TESTERS
[09:17] <Hobbsee> this stuff needs testing:  foo bar blah bling
[09:17] <Hobbsee> RESULTS:
[09:18] <Hobbsee> [table with results, which people can write in]
[09:18] <Hobbsee> {end of page}
[09:18] <Hobbsee> ?
[09:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes, something like that
[09:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: would that be effective?
[09:18] <Hobbsee> mhb: why dont you use the channel topic of KT for that?
[09:19] <Hobbsee> i'd think so - but i'd definetly use the #KT channel, with a link to the wiki page
[09:19] <Hobbsee> it's useful to have it on the results page for reference, so people can wrok on one page - and test offline, if htey wish
[09:20] <Hobbsee> ie, because people tend not to subscribe to wiki pages, as there are so many changes
[09:35] <mhb> Hobbsee: you're probably right
[09:36] <mhb> Hobbsee: thanks for the comments and all
[09:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: not a problem :)  anytime :)
[09:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: i would suggest picking ryanakca's brain on this stuff too, and i'm happy to work with you
[09:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: surely I will
[09:38] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:30] <elcuco> can anyone help me confrim a bug 78856?
[10:30] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78856 in kdebase "kdesktop in ltr in hebrew" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78856
[10:30] <elcuco> basically i would like you to run "killall kdesktop, strace -f -eopen -o 1.txt kdesktop", and then see it kdelibs.mo is loaded by kdestop (search for it in 1.txt)
[12:45] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: no picking my brain!
[01:08] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: awww...but...
[01:19] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: but brain picking is such fun!
[01:20] <Riddell> ryanakca: I thought of some other python tasks to be done
[01:20] <Riddell> ryanakca: porting onboard on screen keyboard to qt 4 and implementing ubiquity-slideshow
[01:36] <mhb> hi
[01:36] <mhb> I'm back
[01:37] <Mez> was it someone in here who had issues with katapult ?
[02:19] <mhb> elcuco: you could have asked at #kubuntu-testers
[02:22] <mhb> elcuco: but anyway, I've tried to reproduce it and yes, it doesn't seem to load some translations (nor kdelibs.mo)
[02:22] <mhb> elcuco: this probably explains why you get "Copy" and "Paste" when you right click on an icon, even though those lines are surely translated
[02:27] <mhb> elcuco: if you'd be so kind please check if there isn't a duplicate of that bug. Check my latest comment for a clue how the duplicate may be called.
[02:35] <mhb> Riddell: will KDE 3.5.6 get into Feisty?
[02:35] <Riddell> mhb: I expect so
[02:36] <mhb> Riddell: I intend to fix bug 78318 and bug 78856 , they are most probably related, but it's probably wiser to wait with it until 3.5.6, right?
[02:36] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78318 in kdebase "Screensaver unlock dialog ignores translation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78318
[02:36] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78856 in kdebase "kdesktop in ltr in hebrew" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78856
[02:36] <elcuco> mhb: hi, thanks for the suggestion
[02:37] <Riddell> mhb: waiting won't help
[02:38] <elcuco> mhb: are you martin?
[02:38] <mhb> elcuco: Martin Bhm
[02:39] <mhb> Riddell: I'll do it right away then. Thanks for advice.
[02:56] <pinheiro> seele: were is the meeting?
[02:56] <Riddell> meeting?
[02:56] <pinheiro> hci
[02:56] <pinheiro> hia Riddell
[02:56] <seele> pinheiro: dunno lemme find out
[02:56] <Riddell> hola
[02:56] <seele> pinheiro: #kde-hci
[02:56] <pinheiro> k
[03:04] <seaLne> hmm i was about to do a dist-upgrade on feisty then noticed kde was going to be removed
[03:11] <seaLne> i something between kubuntu and ubuntu desktops conflicting now?
[03:12] <sebas> You mean other than stupid user fighting about which is better, KDE or GNOME?
[03:13] <Jucato> heh :)
[03:13] <seaLne> i mean if i select install kubuntu-desktop in adept, which it wanted to remove it then says it is going to delete ubuntu-desktop and its stuff
[03:13] <apokryphos> sounds like a conflict; happens a few times in the development release
[03:13] <apokryphos> shouldn't happen in final
[03:14] <seaLne> yeah, more a warning to any other feisty users here to pay attention :)
[03:22] <Riddell> seaLne: seems python transition is going to be the fun for the next week
[03:24] <seaLne> i was wondering if it was it
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya
[04:10] <Jucato> hi bddebian!
[04:11] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[04:11] <lotusleaf> Kubuntu = divine
[04:12] <apokryphos> hehe
[04:42] <n8k99> is there an irc channel for feisty?
[04:43] <lotusleaf> n8k99: #ubuntu+1
[04:43] <lotusleaf> yw in advance ;)
[04:43] <n8k99> thanks!
[04:44] <Jucato> lol
[04:58] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Hello
[04:58] <DaSkreech> oh hi pinheiro As well :)
[04:59] <kwwii> howdy DaSkreech
[05:00] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Just found an article I thought you might find interesting
[05:00] <DaSkreech> Do you know about haiku?
[05:02] <kwwii> DaSkreech: well, I know what haiku is in the classical sense
[05:02] <kwwii> DaSkreech: url?
[05:07] <DaSkreech> http://haiku-os.org/node/280
[05:15] <DaSkreech> kwwii: It's an open source BeOS as a quick history
[05:16] <kwwii> wow, cool
[05:16] <kwwii> I like the cartoonish icons
[05:16] <Jucato> O.o
[05:22] <kwwii> whoever is making those is doing a great job
[05:27] <DaSkreech> stippi
[05:36] <DaSkreech> It's looking pretty good though and the technical stuff for the SVG things are pretty good
[05:42] <Lure> Riddell: daily 0111 is Herd2?
[06:23] <Lure> Riddell: Herd2 issue - bug 78961
[06:23] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78961 in ubiquity "Kubuntu Herd2: crash when starting partitioner" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78961
[07:40] <Lure> nixternal, Riddell: I think "UI Language Selector" section should be removed from announcement part as it is not in Herd2...
[07:41] <nixternal> interesting
[07:42] <nixternal> removed. thanks Lure
[07:43] <Lure> nixternal: you can probably just move it to Herd3 as I am sure Riddell will re-do that part
[07:43] <nixternal> thats what i am doing now
[08:03] <glatzor> manchicken: hi
[08:03] <glatzor> manchicken: Do you want to create the QT frontend of software-properties?
[08:41] <DaSkreech> Who would I have to speak to in order to get to the Hardware database at canonical?
[08:50] <manchicken> glatzor: If you want to, I don't mind.
[08:50] <manchicken> glatzor: I have no problem avoiding Python ^_^
[08:52] <gnomefreak> right now is best time to avoid python ;)
[08:56] <manchicken> C++ isn't my favorite language, but with Qt making it so much nicer, C++/Qt is quite nice.
[09:57] <glatzor> manchicken: pyqt is also quite nice
[09:58] <manchicken> glatzor: Yeah, but I prefer C++/Qt ^_^
[09:59] <glatzor> manchicken: i have put the new features on hold and currently I am writing on a complete separation of the user interface and the sources handling
[09:59] <manchicken> Groovy.
[09:59] <glatzor> manchicken: you want to rewrite it using c++ or add a pyqt frontend?
[10:00] <manchicken> I think it should be retrofitted with pyqt.
[10:00] <glatzor> I suggested to write it desktop neutral at UDS Paris, but Kubuntu rejected.
[10:00] <manchicken> There's already a fair amount of logic in Py that's not Qt.
[10:00] <glatzor> retrofitted?
[10:00] <manchicken> Yeah.
[10:00] <manchicken> The Glade/GTK implementation is rather embedded.
[10:00] <glatzor> I am not familiar with this term :)
[10:00] <manchicken> The UI should be separated from the business logic.
[10:01] <glatzor> manchicken: do you you know if adpet takes /etc/apt.sources.d into account?
[10:02] <manchicken> I don't know.
[10:02] <manchicken> I wouldn't really be surprised either way.
[10:03] <glatzor> If yes, the support should be added to adpet, software-properties could also be easily limited to a single config file
[10:04] <glatzor> manchicken: I hope that the separation will be finished by the end of next week
[10:04] <fdoving> wouldn't it be preferable for ubuntu and kubuntu to use the same sources.* ?
[10:04] <manchicken> Groovy.
[10:04] <manchicken> They do.'
[10:05] <fdoving> then adept must take sources.d/ into account.
[10:05] <fdoving> (don't they all use libapt/libept?)
[10:08] <manchicken> Have you seen Adept's code?
[10:09] <fdoving> some of it.
[10:11] <fdoving> it builddepends on libapt-front-dev, that's why i suspect it uses whatever sources.* the other frontends use.
[10:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: porting the on screen keyboard to qt4... never used Qt... and I presume it's in GTK+ atm? ubiquity-slideshow, what is that?
[10:19] <glatzor> fdoving: libept author's goal was to do apt in the right way. I think that he didn't like the concept of splitting configuration files
[10:21] <glatzor> manchicken: do you want to software-properties-kde be instant or explicit apply?
[10:22] <glatzor> manchicken: currently every changes gets directly written to the config files.
[10:23] <glatzor> manchicken: will it be part of kcontrol? I think kcontrol uses cancel-ok, right?
[10:24] <glatzor> sorry, but I haven't used KDE for years :)
[11:05] <nixternal> http://www.vandenoever.info/misc/keyes/
[11:05] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[11:05] <nixternal> sebas: ^^ nice eyes :)
[11:30] <Lure> nixternal: lol
[11:44] <Riddell> ryanakca: qt is what KDE uses.  ubiquity-slideshow has a spec
[11:45] <ryanakca> Riddell: yeah, know that... never used Qt in programming... have a guide or something for porting the keyboard for <bleep> to Qt4?
[11:48] <ryanakca> found it :)


[01:03] <smoser> harlowja, i'm fine to try to mirror to github
[01:04] <smoser> i'm not here really. but that is fine with me.
[01:04] <harlowja> who are u
[01:04] <harlowja> :-P


[01:41] <callmepk> good morning
[01:45] <duflu> Morning callmepk
[01:47] <callmepk> morning duflu
[05:08] <jibel> hi all
[05:51] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Monday!
[05:57] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hey
[05:57] <oSoMoN> hey ricotz
[06:02] <duflu> Morning jibel, oSoMoN, ricotz
[06:03] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:44] <luna_> morning
[06:57] <oSoMoN> morning luna_
[07:32] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[07:36] <duflu> Morning seb
[07:36] <duflu> Morning seb128
[07:36] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you? had a good weekend?
[07:37] <duflu> seb128, so many birthdays to prepare for and see people for. It's like there was no weekend. Also been a bit sick... But it was strange and nice to see people at least. How was yours?
[07:38] <seb128> it was alright, weathe was not nice though :(
[08:02] <marcustomlinson> morning callmepk duflu jibel oSoMoN ricotz luna_ seb128
[08:03] <jamesh> hi marcustomlinson
[08:03] <marcustomlinson> hi jamesh
[08:03] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson and jamesh
[08:03] <Laney> _o<
[08:04] <marcustomlinson> bacawk Laney
[08:06] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson, jamesh, Laney, how are you?
[08:07] <duflu> 🦆 Laney
[08:09] <marcustomlinson> seb128: not bad thanks, how are you?
[08:10] <Laney> moin marcustomlinson seb128 duflu
[08:10] <seb128> marcustomlinson, weather is crap and I'm tired but otherwise alright
[08:10] <Laney> doing alriiiiggghhhttttt
[08:10] <duflu> seb128, I feel you
[08:10] <Laney> we did some slack lining yesterday, not a natural skill for me /o\
[08:11] <jibel> salut marcustomlinson
[08:13] <seb128> Laney, ah, seems popular in parcs for some times, I never tried but balance isn't my stength, would be fun to try though
[08:13] <seb128> lut jibel
[08:15] <jibel> salut seb128
[08:23] <Laney> moin also jibel
[08:23] <Laney> seb128: hope you had a good long weekend!
[08:25] <seb128> Laney, it was alright, weather was not great (grey, cold, windy) but we still manage to go to a park on friday and did some indoor activities otherwise
[08:33] <Laney> nod
[08:33] <Laney> weather was the same here more or less
[08:34] <Laney> it was SUPER windy
[08:34] <Laney> but at one point the clouds went away so I did a British thing and sat outside being cold in the wind
[08:34] <Laney> I think they take your passport away if you don't do that
[08:34] <jamesh> It's definitely getting to the rainy part of winter here.
[08:41]  * Laney posts jamesh a poncho
[08:58] <Trevinho> morning!
[08:59] <Laney> wb Trevinho !!!
[08:59] <seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you? had a nice week of holidays?
[08:59] <Trevinho> ta, yeah... was great, could be will take some extra days later in the week :)
[08:59] <Trevinho> as weather and sea are too attractive here
[09:00] <Trevinho> but I've an office with seaview anyways now, so can't complain
[09:00] <seb128> nice :)
[09:38] <duflu> Hi there Trevinho
[09:38] <Trevinho> hi duflu
[09:38] <Trevinho> duflu: I think I sent you a message in mattermost :)
[09:38] <Trevinho> PM i mean
[09:38] <duflu> 🏖💻
[09:39] <duflu> Trevinho, yes I got it via bug mail too
[09:39] <duflu> and updated the bug
[09:39] <Trevinho> ah ok... didn't check all the mail yet
[09:39] <jamesh> umbrella to keep the laptop dry?
[09:39] <duflu> Passive cooling
[09:40] <Trevinho> no for now, appreciating the roof more, given I can use the TV of this flat as my 2nd monitor :D
[09:41] <Trevinho> the tv stand is just at the perfect height so that I can put a table below and rotate it at my taste
[09:46] <marcustomlinson> hey Trevinho
[09:46] <Trevinho> hi marcustomlinson
[09:46] <ricotz> hey marcustomlinson seb128 duflu Laney Trevinho
[10:14] <Laney> moin ricotz
[11:26] <Laney> good
[11:26] <Laney> no more proposed-migration crash
[11:27] <Laney> are the results right? WHO KNOWS!
[11:40] <seb128> Laney, shipit!
[13:47] <xnox> destroy all historical copies
[14:18] <oSoMoN> ricotz, can you please push your changes to the firefox-beta branches?
[14:19] <ricotz> oSoMoN, I wanted to wait for the builds to finish
[14:19] <oSoMoN> ricotz, ack
[14:20] <ricotz> looks like they are on the right track :)
[14:27] <ricotz> oSoMoN, pushed
[14:27] <oSoMoN> cheers
[14:51] <KGB-1> gnome-control-center tags 8707e11 Sebastien Bacher upstream/3.36.4 * Upstream version 3.36.4 * https://deb.li/3Yuls
[14:52] <KGB-1> gnome-control-center upstream/latest e893241 Sebastien Bacher * pushed 13 commits * https://deb.li/348gv
[14:52] <KGB-1> gnome-control-center pristine-tar fd65967 Sebastien Bacher gnome-control-center_3.36.4.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-control-center_3.36.4.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-control-center_3.36.4.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/iWwIn


[07:34] <FleurTheRock> hi
[07:35] <FleurTheRock> i'm italian boy, i have htc p3600!
[07:35] <FleurTheRock> i can install ubuntu mobile?
[09:20] <FleurTheRock> you peach italian?
[09:21] <FleurTheRock> you speack italian?
[09:42] <FleurTheRock> http://nexusonehacks.net/nexus-one-hacks/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-nexus-oneandroid/


[08:46] <mort> so Ubuntu Software says this any time I click the refresh button in the updates tab: "Unable to get list of updates: Failed to update metadata for lvfs: checksum failure: failed to verify data, expected cacca7432e1cc193eddcc7c99000c9a9800dbb33"
[10:38] <lotuspsychje> mort: just tested that, i can reproduce
[10:40] <lotuspsychje> lemme see if apport can bug towards snap store
[10:41] <lotuspsychje> nah, apport doesnt like it
[10:42] <lotuspsychje> it will need a manual bug add mort
[10:43] <lotuspsychje> mort: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-store-desktop
[14:31] <mannequin> hello
[14:31] <mannequin> what kernel will 22.04 run?
[14:53] <Maik> mannequin: hard to tell at this point, kernel freeze is in April (the 7th iirc) and probably will be a LTS kernel again.
[14:54] <mannequin> but will it be at least 5.15?
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> 5.13 currently
[14:54] <mannequin> because 5.14 does not boot on thinkpad a285
[14:54] <mannequin> 5.13 does not run my wifi card
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> files a bug yet mannequin ?
[14:55] <Maik> mannequin: dud, wait and see
[14:55] <mannequin> i made a launchpad account
[14:55] <mannequin> i already seen enough to know 5.15 at least it should be
[14:56] <Maik> if that's a lts kernel
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> whats your LP account mannequin ?
[14:56] <mannequin> does not matter, i didn't contribute yet
[14:57] <mannequin> but when i upgrade my 20.04 will the rollback kernels remain?
[14:57] <Maik> not sure
[14:59] <Maik> and iirc you only can upgrade after the first point release 22.04.1 has been released iirc, that will be in July
[14:59] <mannequin> you are spreading nonsense
[15:00] <Maik> i am not
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> thats the lts way of upgrading
[15:01] <Maik> mannequin: ^
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> and reccomended
[15:01] <Maik> so don't tell me i am spreading nonsense mannequinor go troll elsewhere


[22:35] <ion> It seems a child process of my “stop on runlevel [!2345]” job on 10.04 gets killed by sysv killprocs while my job is still terminating it gracefully. I wonder what to do to make killprocs wait for it?
[22:37] <ion> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/545412


 @KMyers
 My Note still wind
 Wins
 Good Morning All, … I am selling 2 of my gadgets that have either been replaced with a upgraded version or are no longer being used. Both devices are in mint condition and come complete with the boxes. I am open to reasonable offers via PM. … 1) LG Watch Sport (Carrier Unlocked) - Android wear watch with LTE and full support for Android Pay. I also have 2 additional aftermarket chargers that I will be throw
[16:42] <floridagram-bot3> in with the watch. I installed a tempered glass screen protector on the watch the day it came in so the screen is flawless. The watchband is also flawless. The watch can act as a standalone phone/fitness tracker by popping in a Nano SIM or it can be used without mobile connectivity via Bluetooth or WiFi. Looking for around $275 for the whole package. … 2) A Sony WH-1000X M2 Noise Canceling Bluetooth Headset. This headset is
[16:42] <floridagram-bot3> applauded for having the best noise canceling headphones around. It sounds great and can be used in both wired and wireless modes via the included 3.5 mm headphone cable. The headphones have built in support for Google Assistant and boast an impressive 30-35 hours of battery life on a single charge (trust me, these estimates are pretty spot on). The headphones also have fast charging giving an additional few hours of use with
[16:42] <floridagram-bot3> a 15 minute charge. I have worn these headphones on several long Amtrak trains and it completely eliminates the noise to allow me to sleep or watch videos at a comfortable level. I am looking for around $300 for these headphones as they are still listed for $350 on Amazon.
 https://youtu.be/D0YLW6v5hrA
 @AdamOutler - maybe a future iOS upgrade that allows for Wirless Air Power. Like the Apple Wave Charger


[13:23] <jmburgess> Hello. I'm trying to close a bug that is dealing with 9.04. I've already told the user that the distro hit EOL, can I just mark it as won't fix and close it? It's bug #1155266
[13:23] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1155266 in Ubuntu "usb attached drives unmount after click on Places in toolbar" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155266
[23:26] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1165248
[23:26] <cprofitt> if anyone has some more advice on what to collect let me know
[23:32] <jmburgess> would bug #1164989 be an apport bug?


[01:41] <sem> did a partial test of lubuntu+1 live environment: https://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/450/builds/296168/testcases/1303/results
[01:41] <sem> found a number of minor issues in some of the applications I tested; not sure how many would be bugs per se...


[15:35] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[15:35] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: thanks for the updates to 4.8.1
[15:37] <davmor2> morning charlie-tca and congrats on xubuntu lead
[15:38] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[15:39] <charlie-tca> it was a formality to get finalized. Been here for while already
[15:40] <davmor2> charlie-tca: :)
[18:28] <charlie-tca> ochosi: don't suppose gmusicbrowser can do the ubuntuone music store thing?
[18:28] <ochosi> hm, no not currently
[18:29] <ochosi> i could start to work on a plugin for that though
[18:29] <charlie-tca> exaile can't either
[18:29] <ochosi> but i don't think exaile cna
[18:29] <ochosi> mhm
[18:29] <charlie-tca> gotta hope, though, right?
[18:29] <charlie-tca> I think we can switch, if mr_pouit is in agreement
[18:30] <charlie-tca> it plays music, right?
[18:30] <ochosi> hehe, yeah, it plays music
[18:30] <ochosi> btw, knome and me started to work on an app comparison
[18:30] <charlie-tca> of course, you do know the first and only thing I ever got to play my cd's was exaile, right?
[18:30] <charlie-tca> I am all thumbs when it comes to that stuff
[18:34] <knome> alpha1 desktop installation fails
[18:34] <knome> "The following packages are in a broken state: libc6-dev, libc6"
[18:35] <knome> then "Installer crashed"
[18:35] <ochosi> hm, my natty install failed to boot today
[18:35] <ochosi> i assume some nvidia proprietary driver prob
[18:36] <ochosi> i have to say those are the days when i really really hate plymouth: when the xserver hangs at boottime i can't get to a tty
[18:36] <knome> mh
[18:38] <charlie-tca> try the daily instead of the alpha1, there are many changes
[18:38] <knome> there is no daily builds apart from powerpc
[18:38] <charlie-tca> My natty installed is working fine.
[18:39] <charlie-tca> are there builds from yesterday?
[18:39] <knome> and a few days ago, there was only the alternate daily build for i386/a64
[18:39] <charlie-tca> Most of the alpha1 issues have been fixed
[18:39] <knome> no, there is no 'desktop' build
[18:39] <knome> for xubuntu natty, at all
[18:40] <charlie-tca> use these then - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20110130/
[18:41] <knome> okay...
[18:41] <knome> let's try one of those.
[18:41] <charlie-tca> those are yesterday's natty xubuntu desktop builds
[18:46] <knome> okay.
[18:46] <ochosi> hm, not sure whether what i just started to write up matches what you'd expect in the design-category
[18:47] <knome> hmm
[18:47] <knome> like?
[18:47] <ochosi> it's already there ;)
[18:48] <knome> err
[18:48] <knome> where
[18:48] <ochosi> "Our target should be to have a player that is easy to use and enables the user to easily browse/manage his/her collection. As collections tend to become bigger and bigger with hdd-space becoming cheaper the player should be able to handle large libraries with grace and should help the user to organize it. "
[18:49] <ochosi> (the wiki-page)
[18:50] <knome> yeah
[18:50] <ochosi> just wanted to be sure before i continue ;)
[18:55] <ochosi> darn, i really have to save the wiki-page every few lines, it gets back at me with internal server errors almost always... :(
[18:55] <knome> yup
[18:55] <knome> i noticed that
[18:55] <knome> probably a wiki error
[18:55] <knome> but it does save the page
[18:56] <knome> even with the error
[18:56] <ochosi> myeah
[18:56] <charlie-tca> I just hit reload when it does that, it comes back that you already saved the page
[18:57] <charlie-tca> knome: you know we start alpha2 testing as soon as we get the new images, right?
[18:57] <knome> charlie-tca, yeah
[18:58] <ochosi> (i just realized when writing this now how superior gmb's search and filter system is)
[19:01] <ochosi> knome: i wrote up a few things i consider important in the design section now, i think too much text isn't a good idea. maybe we should now compare the players according to that
[19:02] <knome> yup
[19:02] <knome> probably
[19:02] <knome> just convert that to another table or so
[19:02] <ochosi> but read up on it first ;)
[19:02] <knome> just a sec
[19:02] <knome> yeah
[19:02] <ochosi> table sounds good
[19:03] <ochosi> maybe a table and screenshots that illustrate our points
[19:03] <ochosi> you still busy installing natty? ;p
[19:03] <charlie-tca> do we expect streaming from the internet before april?
[19:07] <ochosi> hm, not sure
[19:08] <charlie-tca> It would be good to get some estimate of when it is expected, if possible. That seems to be a point for a lot of users.
[19:08] <knome> busy with scheduling a meeting with a friend :|
[19:08] <charlie-tca> We can put it in the release notes, if we switch players
[19:08] <ochosi> mhm, yeah
[19:08] <ochosi> charlie-tca: and the artwork-stuff should also go in there
[19:09] <charlie-tca> what artwork stuff?
[19:09] <charlie-tca> greybird is in now, isn't it?
[19:09] <charlie-tca> ochosi: the issue the other day with thunar spawning is related to the usb drives. I haven't tried it with the bugfixes yet
[19:10] <ochosi> well, the release notes should contain that we have: a new gtk-theme, an updated icon theme, a draft of a grub theme, new default panel layout, new default font (Droid) etc etc ;)
[19:11] <charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. That will get in. I was thinking final release on the gmusicbrowser for streaming thing
[19:11] <ochosi> oh sure
[19:11] <ochosi> yeah, we should put that there too :)
[19:12] <ochosi> charlie-tca: but poke me about the alpha2 release notes if you need a list for the artwork-changes
[19:12] <charlie-tca> yeah, but I won't put that in until the final release
[19:12] <charlie-tca> Great! I can always extra eyes on what I write
[19:12] <charlie-tca> It never says quite what I am thinking it should...
[19:14] <ochosi> k, let's try to throw in more info this time ;)
[19:17] <charlie-tca> knome: I did not run those images. Is it working?
[19:25] <knome> charlie-tca, don't know yet. busy doing other things. will get back to you today
[19:25] <ochosi> hm, i have to say i really don't know enough about exaile to fill out all the tables now
[19:25] <charlie-tca> Okay, thanks. I do know they made a lot of changes in Ubuntu over the weekend, and that might be holding the images up
[19:25] <ochosi> if any of you care to help out feel free
[19:25] <ochosi> (design section: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Natty/DefaultMediaPlayer )
[19:26] <charlie-tca> I didn't anything for 'plays my music, ogg, mp3, or cd' in there.
[19:26] <charlie-tca> ;-)
[19:26] <ochosi> right :)
[19:31] <charlie-tca> so much for me trying to fill in the blanks ;-)
[19:38] <ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, shoutcast browsing doesn't work *at* *all* in exaile for me
[19:39] <charlie-tca> I don't know what that is, even
[19:39] <ochosi> shoutcast is webradio
[19:39] <charlie-tca> but I did install gmusicbrowser in natty to try it out
[19:39] <ochosi> from our ppa?
[19:39] <charlie-tca> no, just the repository
[19:39] <ochosi> oh...
[19:39] <ochosi> that's not good :)
[19:39] <charlie-tca> it won't play cd's?
[19:39] <ochosi> the stable release is really really old
[19:40] <ochosi> try this instead: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ppa
[19:40] <ochosi> no, but we have parole for that
[19:40] <charlie-tca> I thought parole was for movies?
[19:40] <ochosi> nope
[19:41] <ochosi> plays any kind of media
[19:41]  * charlie-tca feels really dumb now
[19:41] <ochosi> i'd even argue that parole's interface is much nicer for playing cds than exaile/gmusicbrowser could be
[19:41] <charlie-tca> oh, I think I said I don't know so much about these things... :-)
[19:41] <ochosi> it's a different purpose somehow
[19:41] <charlie-tca> exaile plays them, though
[19:41] <ochosi> np ;)
[19:41] <ochosi> yeah i know it does
[19:42] <charlie-tca> I don't know how to make parole do that
[19:42] <ochosi> i still don't think it's essential since we have parole
[19:42]  * charlie-tca has visions of ochosi pulling out his hair now
[19:42] <ochosi> hehe
[19:43] <ochosi> no, i wouldn't do that, i *love* my hair ;)
[19:43] <ochosi> step 1: insert audio-cd into drive
[19:43] <ochosi> step 2: open parole
[19:43] <ochosi> step 3: go to media > cdrom > audio cd
[19:43] <ochosi> step 4: click that menu-item very hard
[19:44] <ochosi> step 5: nothing more to do, parole already plays your cd
[19:44] <ochosi> it's the procedure as in totem, vlc and the like
[19:44] <charlie-tca> and close exaile...
[19:45] <ochosi> yeah, exaile even has a bug with the cd-plugin that won't let you eject your cds anymore
[19:45] <charlie-tca> huh, it worked
[19:46] <charlie-tca> can't make any of those work, though
[19:46] <ochosi> any of "those"?
[19:46] <charlie-tca> totem, vlc, etc
[19:46] <ochosi> right
[19:46] <ochosi> hm, not sure about totem, but parole uses gstreamer as its backend (just like exaile)
[19:46] <charlie-tca> I got vlc to play the dvd movies, somehow
[19:47] <ochosi> in gmusicbrowser you can even select your favorite backend, but i guess we'll use gstreamer by default, since it's already installed for parole
[19:47] <mr_pouit> etoomuchbacklog
[19:48] <ochosi> hey mr_pouit ;)
[19:48] <charlie-tca> yeah, we been busy, huh?
[19:48] <ochosi> mr_pouit: have you used exaile much | do you know the programme?
[19:51] <mr_pouit> yeah, a lot, I opened it a least twice when testing the new panel layout in virtualbox ;D
[19:51] <mr_pouit> so, no :P
[19:51] <ochosi> haha
[19:51] <ochosi> right
[19:51] <charlie-tca> see, I know more than that! I got it to play cd's :-)
[19:51] <ochosi> so i guess i'll have to start testing it myself now :|
[19:52] <charlie-tca> gee, now I feel like an almost expert on it ;-)
[19:52]  * charlie-tca confesses, it was SiDi that taught him how to play them
[19:53]  * ochosi taught charlie-tca today how to play audio-cds with parole
[19:53] <charlie-tca> heh, that's right
[19:53] <charlie-tca> but it don't show the song names...
[19:57] <mr_pouit> mmh, do you really want gmb for the alpha 2?
[19:57] <charlie-tca> who, me? It's up to you, really
[19:58] <mr_pouit> I'd rather push it after alpha 2
[19:58] <mr_pouit> because we'll have to upload the new release first (as ochosi says the current one in natty sucks :p)
[19:59] <mr_pouit> and it seems a bit short to me until thursday :P
[19:59] <ochosi> yes, we have to use the one from the shimmer-ppa, otherwise it's not a very good decision
[20:02] <mr_pouit> (also, exaile is the only thing pushing hal in the default install)
[20:03] <ochosi> mr_pouit: so shall i continue to write that app-comparison or shall we close the subject now ;)
[20:03] <knome> charlie-tca, did you think of revamping the strategy document?
[20:03] <charlie-tca> that works for me
[20:03] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^^
[20:04] <charlie-tca> knome: yes, I have thought about it, it is one of my goals to add how to select the lead
[20:04] <charlie-tca> Other than that, when I asked for inputs, I got none
[20:04] <knome> charlie-tca, do you think there could be discussion on some of the other things as well
[20:04] <knome> charlie-tca, can't remember that, i've probably been quite busy back then
[20:05] <mr_pouit> ochosi: charlie-tca: well, if everyone is for gmb, I guess it's settled, and you don't have to write more :p
[20:05] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: let's wait though, as you said
[20:05] <charlie-tca> alpha2 is got enough for now
[20:06] <charlie-tca> ochosi: we can close the comparison as complete enough.
[20:06] <knome> charlie-tca, first of all, i suppose we do have to rethink the goals of the xubuntu project
[20:06] <charlie-tca> knome: I will go further into it after the next two weeks
[20:06] <ochosi> brb
[20:06] <knome> charlie-tca, okay. will you still accept input then?
[20:07] <charlie-tca> I don't the goals are going to change much
[20:07] <charlie-tca> but, yes, I will open it for discussion then
[20:07] <knome> charlie-tca, imo we can't both try to be as accessible as possible as well as trying to be low-mem system
[20:07] <knome> charlie-tca, which is what the current document pretty much states
[20:08] <knome> charlie-tca, that's one thing that just has to change in order to make the document helpful for USERS and for developers thinking about users
[20:09] <knome> charlie-tca, and as you know, i was and i still am against the PL having the veto vote. that's a thing i think would make the document helpful for DEVELOPERS and for developers interacting
[20:11] <knome> charlie-tca, s/veto vote/casting vote/, whatever
[20:19] <ochosi> k, i'm back
[20:20] <ochosi> mr_pouit, charlie-tca: mkay, thanks for saving me the work :)
[20:21] <ochosi> charlie-tca: about the SD, i think it's important that all team members are equal and that there is no veto. i think it's very important for a team to be able to reach a consensus or to make compromises, otherwise it doesn't function well
[20:22] <charlie-tca> It is also very important to never allow the team to lock into a debate without end
[20:22] <ochosi> i don't think having a leader-veto is a good way to resolve "a debate without end"
[20:22] <knome> the SD is actually contrary to itself
[20:22] <ochosi> i think a vote is lote better
[20:22] <knome> on the PL section, it says:
[20:22] <knome> It is understood that the divisive use of the project leads authority could weaken the project. For that reason the authority is used carefully, ...
[20:23] <knome> of course, if you have a bad leader who abuses his powers and does want to vote against others, he won't use the authority carefully
[20:24] <charlie-tca> and he won't be there long, since the community council can intervene
[20:24] <charlie-tca> and with that, when this opened for discussion , I will be looking forward to your inputs
[20:25] <charlie-tca> installed gmusicbrowser from shimmer ppa
[20:25] <knome> it takes time for the CC to intervene. seriously, it can start with small things that do not matter much but end messy. and lots of small things can make the dev team break
[20:25] <knome> charlie-tca, thanks for considering anyway
[20:26] <charlie-tca> you are welcome, I do try to keep an open mind. I am not a dictator, that is taken already.
[20:27] <knome> charlie-tca, i definitely think that the PL should have a good view on what's happening on the project and where it should aim towards, but i don't think it means that the PL should have any kind of casting vote and definitely not a veto vote to do a decision against all of the others developers
[20:27] <knome> charlie-tca, i agree, you're not a dictator. but when people do agree about things they really care about and have been cherishing.. it can get messy even if one wasn't a dictator ;)
[20:28] <ochosi> hm, the current team situation (even if there hardly is an official team) is quite good
[20:29] <charlie-tca> hm, okay, I got this thing in here, and I got a bunch of songs in it from my other drive, now how do I make it play?
[20:29] <knome> press the play button? :D
[20:29] <ochosi> or double-click a song?
[20:29] <charlie-tca> what does it look like?
[20:29] <knome> arrow right
[20:29] <knome> it's on the left top corner
[20:29] <knome> next to "prev" and "next" buttons
[20:29] <charlie-tca> lol, I ain't really too good at this, remember? ;-)
[20:30] <charlie-tca> the triagle on it's side, right>?
[20:30] <knome> yep
[20:30] <knome> well you can't break your system by pressing a button in gmb... ;]
[20:30] <charlie-tca> huh, it plays
[20:31] <ochosi> hehe
[20:33] <charlie-tca> well, that's enough music for now, I guess.
[20:33] <charlie-tca> okay, I tested it
[20:33] <ochosi> :)
[20:34] <charlie-tca> It is quite different from what is in the repository, you are right
[20:34] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i will spend the energy i saved on not continuing the app-comparison on improving the shimmer-gmb project page
[20:34] <ochosi> so that people will get a better impression of it
[20:35] <ochosi> charlie-tca: well, i modified it, i should know it's different :D
[20:35] <charlie-tca> good idea
[20:35] <charlie-tca> We will announce it for alpha3, down the road...
[20:35] <charlie-tca> well, except I announce things on identi.ca as we put them out for the public
[20:36] <charlie-tca> I still need someone to blog about us weekly!
[20:36] <ochosi> yeah, that would be important
[20:36] <ochosi> having the website support blogs would be great
[20:37] <ochosi> i mean: syndicating blogs like a planet
[20:37] <charlie-tca> we don't have anyone that blogs regularly enough to keep a website blog going. the planet already syndicates them, but if no one does the writing, ...
[20:38] <ochosi> true
[20:39]  * micahg wants to start a blog
[20:39] <micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, Thunderbird locales 3.1.7 in natty :)
[20:40] <charlie-tca> The idea of saying we have it is great! I just don't think it is worth it if no one is writing anything
[20:40] <mr_pouit> ochosi: after alpha 2, if gmb in natty doesn't look as good as on your screenshots, I'll sue you :P
[20:40] <ochosi> mr_pouit: harhar
[20:41] <ochosi> mr_pouit: as long as you use the package from our repo everything will be dandy
[20:41] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: it plays, at least
[20:41] <ochosi> charlie-tca: lol
[20:41] <mr_pouit> ochosi: write that on my todo list, and it'll be fine ;>
[20:41] <ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe, i love *your* todo-list
[20:43] <charlie-tca> hm, no wonder hibernate is giving so many bugs now... "It was removed from the dernel completely... "
[20:44] <ochosi> woot?
[20:47] <charlie-tca> heh
[20:48] <charlie-tca> that's what I thought. I think it is a discussion on natty
[20:58] <ochosi> mr_pouit: hm, i was wondering whether we can un-brand some of our default apps and make them use generic app icons instead?
[20:59] <ochosi> i know that certain apps have strong branding (ff, tb)
[21:00] <ochosi> but using a simple "email" icon in the launcher-panel would make a lot more sense to me
[21:00] <ochosi> how should a new user know what that birdy means?
[21:00] <ochosi> a better example is maybe ristretto
[21:00] <ochosi> how should a new user know what that coffee-mug or the name means?
[21:07] <mr_pouit> I'm not even sure that's allowed for tb and fx ;>
[21:08] <knome> charlie-tca, i do write pretty constantly :P
[21:09] <ochosi> mr_pouit: well, we'd have to use icedove ;)
[21:10] <ochosi> but anyway, for stuff like ristretto, gmusicbrowser etc it would be cool imo
[21:10] <knome> i agree with general application/concept icons
[21:10] <knome> mail for mail
[21:10] <mr_pouit> the easy solution is with the icon theme
[21:11] <knome> mr_pouit, is it ok to use a mail icon for TB?
[21:11] <knome> i mean, isn't that the point of "different" applications
[21:11] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah probably
[21:11] <mr_pouit> for tb and fx, you better ask micahg ;P
[21:12] <knome> or is it just that some people are so afraid of seeing any branding anywhere?
[21:12] <mr_pouit> ochosi: it's the simplest one, so we don't touch the desktop files :)
[21:12] <knome> micahg, if you want to start a blog, why don
[21:12] <knome> ...'t you do that?
[21:12] <micahg> ochosi: why would you want to unbrand some of the most popular open source apps?
[21:13] <knome> micahg, if you have hosting, it's as simple as setting up WP and start writing; if not, then just register an account at wordpress.com
[21:13] <knome> (there was probably some subjectivity added in the previous message)
[21:14] <micahg> knome: I will, I'm limited on time ATM, but that will change shortly
[21:14] <knome> good :)
[21:14] <ochosi> micahg: i know the thought hurts but i don't care what the app-icon of the app that manages my mail looks like
[21:14] <ochosi> micahg: but i know that ff and tb are a sensitive topic
[21:14] <ochosi> micahg: why not start with the other apps? :)
[21:14] <knome> micahg, "mail" is still a better thought for mail than "thunderbird"
[21:14] <micahg> ochosi: yes, but it make Xubuntu less relavent if it has foo mail vs Thunderbird
[21:14] <knome> micahg, a lot of people who i know and use TB, for example, don't know it's called "thunderbird"
[21:15] <knome> micahg, why is it less relevant while the app can still say thunderbird in it's titlebar, and the icon hover can say "Mail<br />Mozilla Thunderbird"?
[21:15] <ochosi> micahg: how is thunderbird coupled with xubuntu being "relevant"?
[21:16] <micahg> knome: it makes it less familiar, when you list Thunderbird in the default apps, right away you have an edge over Ubuntu w/Evo as teh default
[21:16]  * micahg will have to continue this later
[21:16] <ochosi> micahg: np, i'm always willing to discuss this
[21:17] <knome> i can see how it can affect some people who are 'used' to the TB/FF branding, but on the other hand, it's like streching your hand out to catch those who are still not yet 'in'
[21:18] <ochosi> yeah
[21:18] <knome> accessibility also means things like being easy for people who have never used a computer
[21:19] <ochosi> i just don't really get why my image-viewer's icon should be a coffee-mug
[21:19] <charlie-tca> relaxation
[21:19] <ochosi> ?
[21:20] <charlie-tca> coffee goes with "sit back, relax, enjoy the coffee and images
[21:21] <ochosi> hmm, i still think i can make an image-viewer icon that is more descriptive than a mug of coffee
[21:21] <knome> image-viewer for me is relaxation
[21:21] <ochosi> and: i don't assiociate drinking ristretto with sitting down ;)
[21:21] <knome> for me it's "start looking at the pictures and select the best for your clients website"
[21:22] <charlie-tca> In America it is coffee, in UK it is tea, etc
[21:22] <ochosi> ristretto != coffee
[21:23] <ochosi> ;)
[21:23] <charlie-tca> it isn't so much thinking of an image viewer as it is relaxation at that time
[21:23] <mr_pouit> often, people have a better memory for the icons than the app names
[21:23] <ochosi> ok, well given you have that association, say you want to view your images, would you really click a coffee-mug first?
[21:24] <charlie-tca> true. I am an exception, since I don't see the icons
[21:24] <charlie-tca> ochosi: as much as I would want to click on something called "ristretto" to see them, yes
[21:25] <ochosi> hm, no renaming the apps is really not my point, they can keep their names, but the icons could be more generic
[21:26] <charlie-tca> On the other hand, it drives me nuts to click on "movie player" when it crashes. I don't really know what crashed by the name
[21:26] <knome> like the icons, the desktop icon titles probably should be more relevant
[21:26] <knome> charlie-tca, what about "App name (App usage)" or "App usage (App name)"
[21:26] <knome> brb
[21:27] <charlie-tca> I think it would be great to have "what it is - app name"
[21:27] <charlie-tca> like "movie player - totem"
[21:27] <charlie-tca> Music player - exaile
[21:28] <ochosi> s/exaile/gmusicbrowser ;)
[21:28] <charlie-tca> because the names certainly do nothing to inspire a reason to open the app
[21:28] <ochosi> yep
[21:29] <charlie-tca> who in their right mind would open "parole" to see a movie instead of looking for jails/prisons/convicts, in the USA, at least.
[21:29] <ochosi> hehe
[21:30] <ochosi> well, even the icon for parole could be a little less fugly
[21:30] <charlie-tca> even "aumix" does not make me want to see what it is... :-)
[21:31]  * charlie-tca is using icons more in natty, since he has a launcher panel now
[21:31] <ochosi> yeah, don't really know why we have aumix installed... mr_pouit ^
[21:32] <ochosi> charlie-tca: good to hear. i also use the launcher panel a lot when i'm in natty
[21:32] <ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, are you on an up-to-date natty?
[21:32] <charlie-tca> it kind of makes me think of an equalizer... Awe, mix it
[21:46] <mr_pouit> it's a recommends of xfce4-settings iirc
[21:47] <ochosi> don't think it's used anywhere
[21:47] <mr_pouit> it should be hidden in xubuntu anyway, but there's a bug in garcon, which prevents that
[21:47] <charlie-tca> yeah, I think it goes with the mixer
[21:47] <charlie-tca> ochosi: yes, I run an up-to-date natty
[21:48] <ochosi> mr_pouit: wasn't aumix used for default volume keyboard shortcuts in xfce4.6?
[21:48] <mr_pouit> yes, sort of
[21:48] <ochosi> charlie-tca: would you mind posting a screener, just curious to see what it looks like on other peoples screens and whether there's anything i want/have to fix visually
[21:48] <ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, getting rid of hal sounds *really* good to my ears
[21:49] <charlie-tca> sure, I can do that
[21:52] <charlie-tca> I would be happy with apps that upstream supports.
[21:53] <charlie-tca> thunderbird, firefox or midori, etc
[21:53] <mr_pouit> ah, I found http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/install-xfce-4-8-in-ubuntu-10-10-ppa/ by accident
[21:53] <mr_pouit> it's probably not worth backporting then
[21:54] <charlie-tca> There seems to be two different ppa's now. One for lucid and one for maverick
[21:54] <ochosi> mr_pouit: i read that in lucid only 32bit is supported
[21:54] <micahg> mr_pouit: I'm weary of random 3rd party PPAs
[21:54] <ochosi> but yeah, i'd say save yourself the work
[21:55] <mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, but from my experience, Users can't wait, they don't care whether it's from the xubuntu team or not, and the versions in backport would be lower than the ones from these ppas
[21:56] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/01/xfce-48-ubuntu-1004-and-1010-ppas.html
[21:57] <charlie-tca> If they look okay, let's go ahead and give them out when asked about it?
[21:57] <mr_pouit> micahg: and fwiw, (s)he took the natty packages, and did s/natty/maverick/ apparently, because the latest changelog entry is still from me :}
[21:58] <micahg> mr_pouit: right, but there's no guarantee it'll stay that way, that's the problem with 3rd party repos
[21:58] <charlie-tca> but the way the backport for 4.6 went, this might be a good thing!
[21:58] <micahg> neither is an Ubuntu dev, so I don't trust their PPAs
[21:59] <mr_pouit> anyway, I don't intend to review/recommend this ppa (not enough time)
[21:59] <micahg> mr_pouit: are either an upstream xfce dev?  (that's my otehr criteria for trustworthiness)
[22:00] <mr_pouit> afaik no
[22:00] <mr_pouit> they are mostly on archlinux and lunar :P
[22:02] <knome> charlie-tca, i'm having problems even entering the graphical installator/livecd with the .iso from yesterday
[22:03] <mr_pouit> try the current one, it should work
[22:03] <charlie-tca> hm, then it is broken again. They said the ubuntu installer was
[22:03] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: no images today
[22:03] <knome> mr_pouit, there is only powerpc builds
[22:03] <knome> mr_pouit, " :] "
[22:03] <mr_pouit> mmh, I downloaded some a few hours ago
[22:03] <knome> link plz
[22:04] <mr_pouit> okay, they disappeared again
[22:04] <knome> :P
[22:04] <knome> any *desktop* iso from 11.04?
[22:04] <knome> alternate... well, that's the last resort
[22:04] <mr_pouit> (because they contained xfdesktop 4.8.1, so they were from today)
[22:07] <knome> D/Lding 20110130 daily alternate amd64
[22:07] <knome> if that doesn't work, it's a "notworksforme"
[22:08] <charlie-tca> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/135444
[22:10] <ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks, looks ok!
[22:10] <charlie-tca> ochosi: another user on natty - http://i.imgur.com/1n5nH.png
[22:11] <charlie-tca> closer to defaults for the top panel, at least
[22:11] <ochosi> ah great
[22:11] <ochosi> yeah, looks good
[22:12] <charlie-tca> I guess mine is a little bit different ;-)
[22:12] <ochosi> sure ;) but tbh i think the theme still works
[22:13] <charlie-tca> I have to have my clocks, too
[22:14] <charlie-tca> from #ubuntu+1:
 I would like to compliment the Xubuntu team for their work on Natty so far.  The new theme looks great and the panel configuration is a nice change from the psuedo-gnome look it had before.
[22:31] <knome> charlie-tca, the alternate image let me install xubuntu.
[22:31] <charlie-tca> there is hope then ;-)
[22:32] <knome> apparently not. won't let me in login screne.
[22:32] <knome> *screen
[22:33] <charlie-tca> it gives you the screen?
[22:33] <knome> the black screen
[22:33] <charlie-tca> wait
[22:33] <charlie-tca> wait
[22:33] <charlie-tca> wait a long time
[22:33] <knome> for the first time or every time?
[22:33] <charlie-tca> if that don't work, turn off "quiet splash" in the grub
[22:33] <charlie-tca> first time
[22:34] <knome> okay
[22:34] <charlie-tca> mine took about three minutes when they moved the -38 kernel in
[22:35] <knome> crap.
[22:35] <charlie-tca> I think that is part of what they are trying to fix on the images
[22:38] <knome> disabling quiet splash gives me... black screen
[22:38] <knome> so i probably should just wait anyway
[22:40] <charlie-tca> check the ctrl+Alt+f?? to see if it came up on the wrong tty too. I had one boot to f8, and f7 was showing.
[22:41] <knome> well, i'm on vbox and host+f7 is not giving anything
[22:41] <knome> (which should be the same as c+a+f7
[22:42] <charlie-tca> anything on host+F8 or F9?
[22:42] <knome> even tty1 doesn't show anything but black screen
[22:43] <charlie-tca> 32 or 64 bit?
[22:43] <knome> 64
[22:44] <charlie-tca> hm, my VBox in natty hates me today
[22:44] <charlie-tca> no
[22:45] <charlie-tca> it is the new kernel, I think. VBox won't work in the -38 kernel yet
[22:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: which version of Vbox?
[22:45] <charlie-tca> 4.0 from the website
[22:46] <micahg> charlie-tca: 4.0.2 is out
[22:46] <knome> my vbox is 3.2.12
[22:46] <micahg> it's in natty as well
[22:46] <charlie-tca> that's the3 one that kicked
[22:46] <charlie-tca> "Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 2.6.38-1-generic (x86_64"
[22:47] <charlie-tca> shows /var/lib/dkms/vboxhost/4.0.2/build/
[22:48] <charlie-tca> lloking in the install log
[22:48] <knome> mmh
[22:48] <charlie-tca> kernel error, things don't match up yet
[22:49] <micahg> charlie-tca: http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/8143
[22:50] <charlie-tca> it's close. source of 2l6.28-rc2 does not match current kernel 2.6.38-1-generic
[22:50] <charlie-tca> this is bad, with alpha2 testing this week and lucid next week
[22:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: talk to debfx, maybe he can cherry pick the fix
[22:57] <mr_pouit> there's 4.0.2 in natty, it should build fine (from looking at the changelog)
[22:57] <charlie-tca> it doesn't with the new kernel
[22:58] <charlie-tca> Maybe I can remove and reinstall. Sometimes that works
[22:58] <mr_pouit> ah, I didn't try on amd64, sorry
[22:58] <mr_pouit> (only i386)
[22:58] <charlie-tca> failed hard here on amd64
[22:59] <charlie-tca> Got my first garcon bug going upstream, if it isn't in Ubuntu too
[23:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: back to starting without xfwm4
[23:10] <charlie-tca> I have to use Alt+F2 and run xfwm4 &  every boot
[23:12] <charlie-tca> (natty 64bit
[23:12] <charlie-tca> ) :-(
[23:25] <charlie-tca> remove and re-install vbox 4.0.02 failed too
[23:44] <charlie-tca> \o/ first bug upstreamed against garcon!
[23:49] <ochosi> night everyone
[23:49] <charlie-tca> good night
[23:49] <charlie-tca> hm, no one is properly excited about the bug, huh ;-)


[22:53] <emma> hey anyone here with ops in #ubuntu-uk ? I think i got banned for a bouncing connection but it's fixed now.
[23:45] <JanC> emma: it might be a bit late to catch UK ops now, but I suppose that e.g. AlanBell or popey can help you


[07:16] <ara> good morning!
[10:35]  * MaWaLe is away: brb
[10:37]  * MaWaLe is back (gone 00:01:34)
[21:52] <tsunamii> hi


[17:35] <Quark> Can anyone spot the problem on this user-data file that is not writing the files as configured? https://dpaste.com/9A9UW3ZAZ
[17:42] <Quark> The "write_files" is being ignored completed, and I can't, for the best of me, figure out why.
[17:58] <esv> try adding "defer: true"
[18:00] <Quark> esv: OK, let me try that.
[18:01] <esv> is there a write_files in autoinstall?
[18:03] <Quark> Right after adding the "defer: true" I though of that. Look it up, and it seems there isn't. How can I accomplish that?
[18:04] <minimal> put it in the user-data?
[18:04] <esv> well, autoinstall is passed as user-data to the new instance, can't you pass it in the meta-data
[18:05] <Quark> With the same file? Like another key?
[18:05] <esv> try the same. :)
[18:05] <esv> worst case, it fails XD
[18:05] <minimal> "user-data" is a section of an autoinstall file which contains cloud-init cloud-config to be run on 1st boot of newly installed machine, right?
[18:07] <Quark> OK, trying it once more. Thanks everyone!
[18:19] <Quark> Great success! Thank you everyone!


[02:09] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:12] <ducasse> good morning
[06:19] <lordievader> Good morning
[16:57] <lotuspsychje> jeremy31: i updated lubuntu 18.04 at my dads, didnt offer me an upgrade yet
[20:01] <Bashing-om> Issue UWN688 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue688 :D
[20:02] <ogra> news !
[20:05] <Bashing-om> ogra: Real slow week in ubuntu-land - not much to report on this week :(
[20:06] <ogra> yeah...
[21:47] <maxFlexGuest> If an external monitor has Mac and Windows specific drivers, will that affect Linux compatibility?
[21:47] <maxFlexGuest> (Ubuntu 20.04 LTS)


[06:30] <Dreamless> So how is the new theme for Hardy going? I really look forward to ubuntu getting a "makeover"! But the old is still quite good compared to alot of other themes!
[07:14] <DanaG> I think Ubuntu should package (or at least release officially on the wiki) an Aurora-based theme.
[07:14] <DanaG> Example: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png
[17:22] <psyke83> hi, I've created two modified themes that I think may be worth checking out as candidates for testing, Human-Clearlooks-Mod and Human-Murrine-Mod. I'd appeciate any feedback! http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=716133 and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=715530
[17:28] <_MMA_> psyke83: I'm sure the necessary people saw it on the ML as well. Most of the time that's the best place.
[17:29] <psyke83> _MMA_, that's grand, then. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to chat here when the meeting happens (I'm preparing to move from Brazil -> Ireland), thanks
[17:30] <psyke83> _MMA_, I didn't know what the standard practice was, e.g. to start an /Alternative wiki page, a Launchpad bug, etc
[17:30] <_MMA_> AFAIK, the default theme is set. I don't know if the alt theme pack ever gained momentum.
[17:33] <psyke83> _MMA_, that's good news. Cimi seems opposed to shipping murrine's stable release, but on the other hand, the Ubuntulooks engine appears to be unmaintained
[17:34] <psyke83> I noticed that the bugs aren't getting attention on Launchpad, but are for Murrine and Clearlooks (part of GNOME), at least
[18:22] <Cimi> kwwii, ping
[21:53] <xhaker> Cimi: hello, how are you?
[21:53] <Cimi> well thx
[21:54] <xhaker> Cimi: I would like if you could add inconsistent state for radio buttons in murrine
[21:55] <xhaker> Cimi: I thing you have commented the code with something like *Lacks inconsistent*
[21:55] <Cimi> what do you mean with inconsistent?
[21:56] <Cimi> I have to go
[21:57] <xhaker> Do you know the applet that manages Appearance: Go to the tab Fonts, click Details.. select slight hinting.. close the details view. All radio buttons are in an inconsistent state.. None of them is selected!
[21:57] <xhaker> Cimi: could you please try this procedure.. you'll get what I mean.
[21:58] <xhaker> Cimi: Clearlooks shows a dash for inconsistent radio buttons. instead of the bullets
[21:58] <_MMA_> xhaker: On the "Font Rendering Details" page?
[21:59] <xhaker> _MMA_: glad to see someone get interested. only seb128 was
[21:59] <_MMA_> I have various options selected here. A screenshot from your end would help.
[22:00] <xhaker> http://leetcorp.net/theme-radio-easy-fix.png
[22:00] <xhaker> that's my fix for ubuntulooks.. not really a fix.. more like a proof of concept
[22:01] <xhaker> It is not hard to understand.
[22:01] <_MMA_> Lemmie grab the Ubuntu theme. Im using Ubuntu Studio here.
[22:01] <_MMA_> Doesnt happen here.
[22:01] <xhaker> Subpixel smoothing => subpixel lcd + full hinting
[22:02] <xhaker> if you have Subpixel smoothing selected.. but change in the deatils to Slight hinting
[22:02] <xhaker> it is no longer the Subpixel smoothing option
[22:02] <xhaker> it is a custom setting
[22:03] <xhaker> so.. on the page that lets you choose the size of the fonts, it shows the 4 checkboxes selected
[22:03] <xhaker> which is bad
[22:03] <xhaker> none of them is selected. so some other visual hint should happen
[22:03] <xhaker> like in the clearlooks theme
[22:04] <_MMA_> Hmm.. I got it to do it here. Odd.
[22:04] <xhaker> the bullets from the standard radio button selected drawing.. are replaced by dashes
[22:04] <xhaker> _MMA_: that's not a bug of the applet
[22:04] <_MMA_> I get them all being selected.
[22:04] <xhaker> yes.. thats because the themes are buggy
[22:05] <xhaker> change to clearlooks
[22:05] <_MMA_> "theme" or engine"?
[22:05] <xhaker> and you'll see
[22:05] <xhaker> engine!
[22:05] <xhaker> sorry
[22:05] <xhaker> try clearlooks. you'll see how it handles this situation better
[22:06] <_MMA_> I know. Since Cimi writes both he should have a solution.
[22:11] <xhaker> _MMA_: That's why i'm bugging him
[22:12] <_MMA_> xhaker: I doubt we will see a solution unless we pull the code from CVS because he's waiting for other things to be done before a "official" release.
[22:37] <Cimi> xhaker, http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/murrine?view=revision
[22:39] <Cimi> http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9839/20080307233824602x490sczo8.png
[22:44] <xhaker> Cimi: that is Super. you're fast!
[22:47] <Cimi> _MMA_, yesterday I've added --disable-rgba @ the configure
[22:47] <Cimi> you can pull from svn and make packages with --disable-rgba
[22:51] <_MMA_> Cimi: Nice. Ill see if I can get it updated. Is it pretty stable?
[22:51] <Cimi> _MMA_, more than 0.53.1, I have fixes several bugs
[22:52] <Cimi> and rewritten most of the code
[22:53] <Cimi> the problem is that I'm not sure to pull all of that code without howtos for themes and things like this
[22:53] <_MMA_> Ok. Ill work with the guys tomorrow to get something going.
[22:53] <Cimi> it features 26 options :)
[22:53] <_MMA_> I think for now, its just to fix bugs.
[22:53] <_MMA_> Your official release will be the big deal. :)
[22:54] <Cimi> no time
[22:55] <_MMA_> My point is though we update, It wont be a big deal until you officially release.
[22:55] <Cimi> I'd prefer, for marketing decisions :) to release when it is really done
[22:56] <Cimi> also releasing for hardy +1
[22:56] <Cimi> could be better for all the options that are useful to customize the gradients
[22:56] <Cimi> (the new murrine can emulate other engines)
[22:57] <_MMA_> We won't be making a big deal about the update. We'll leave that for you. ;)
[22:57] <_MMA_> We'll have to test. Might not make it really. I wont know until tomorrow.
[23:04] <kwwii> Cimi: pong
[23:05] <Cimi> kwwii, ping pong
[23:05] <Cimi> kwwii, i've seen some alpha 6 screenshots, they are using murrine
[23:05] <Cimi> why?
[23:05] <kwwii> Cimi: because we wanted to try it out
[23:06] <Cimi> kwwii, but for test or for default
[23:06] <Cimi> anyway seems better then the first tries
[23:06] <kwwii> Cimi: it is very, very likely that we will use ubuntulooks in the end
[23:06] <Cimi> I like the colors
[23:06] <kwwii> yeah, it is getting a bit cleaner as well
[23:06] <Cimi> metacity theme is horrible
[23:06] <kwwii> lol
[23:07] <_MMA_> It's awesome.
[23:07] <Cimi> -.-
[23:07] <kwwii> I think that for hardy there is little reason to go out on a limb and change things for the sake of change
[23:08] <kwwii> hardy+1 is the perfect time for that
[23:09] <kwwii> I am not sure how bug free murrine is compared to ubuntulooks
[23:10] <Cimi> kwwii, muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more
[23:10] <_MMA_> hahahahah
[23:10] <Cimi> kwwii, ubuntulooks is unmaintained
[23:10] <_MMA_> Like asking a cook who's food is better.
[23:10] <Cimi> I'm a clearlooks developer
[23:11] <Cimi> i develop for gnome, I receive all the bugs of gnome
[23:11] <Cimi> and I have fixed them to murrine too
[23:11] <Cimi> murrine is stable as clearlooks
[23:11] <Cimi> other engines are a step behind
[23:12]  * _MMA_ loves Cimi's modesty.
[23:12] <Cimi> ;)
[23:16]  * xhaker thinks clearlooks + ubuntulooks-scrollbars would do the trick
[23:17] <kwwii> xhaker: you waited until cimi left to say that
[23:18]  * _MMA_ knows that kwwii is scared to mix engines. ;) (chicken)
[23:18] <xhaker> kwwii: he hacked on murrine for me today already
[23:19] <xhaker> i would feel bad if I asked him to do this too
[23:19] <xhaker> :D
[23:19] <xhaker> kwwii: did you see the screenshot?
[23:19] <xhaker> kwwii: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9839/20080307233824602x490sczo8.png
[23:20] <xhaker> hint: radio buttons
[23:20] <kwwii> xhaker: I find the orange buttons look to instense
[23:20] <kwwii> they all seem active to me
[23:22] <xhaker> on clearlooks i presume
[23:23] <_MMA_> shhh, shhhhh
[23:23] <kwwii> Cimi: _MMA_ has some crack idea about using two engines in one theme
[23:23] <kwwii> :p
[23:24] <Cimi> -.-
[23:24] <Cimi> just do it for clearlooks
[23:25]  * _MMA_ goes off to mix a ubuntulooks/murrine/pixmap/Nodoka gtkrc.
[23:25] <kwwii> clearlooks with ubuntulooks for the scrollbars
[23:26] <Cimi> OMG
[23:26] <Cimi> x|
[23:26]  * Cimi died
[23:26]  * _MMA_ laughs at Cimi's death. :P
[23:28] <xhaker> Cimi: what if someone takes the current clearlooks, and changes the drawing code for scrollbars for instance, and then call it ubuntulooks?
[23:28]  * _MMA_ goes to be with the family.
[23:28] <kwwii> yeah, I am heading out for the night as well
[23:29] <xhaker> it thought of doing that, but i'm not very capable in cairo
[23:29] <xhaker> s/it/I
[23:31] <Cimi> why to do this?
[23:46] <xhaker> Cimi: why not? what would be a better option in your opinion?
[23:46]  * xhaker has yet to read the followups on ubuntu-art ML.
[23:46] <Cimi> I don't like them


[10:40] <danilos> gmb, hey-hey, welcome back!
[10:40] <gmb> Hi danilos, thanks!
[10:40] <gmb> Now all I need to do is get out from under this pile of emails and remember how to do my job :)
[10:41] <danilos> gmb, I am sure you missed it all, and us the most :)
[10:41] <gmb> Oh, naturally. I was soaking up the Californian sun and just wishing for a complex timeout bug to fix.
[10:41] <danilos> gmb, relaxed time with family can't replace virtual time with colleagues :)
[10:41] <gmb> Indeed :)
[10:41] <danilos> gmb, I can imagine!
[10:42] <danilos> gmb, so, I assume you had a lot of fun? did you at least get sunburned? :)
[10:42] <gmb> danilos: I did, yes (to both questions). It was excellent and I recommend driving Highway 1 to anyone who has the time.
[12:05] <Ursinha> good morning
[13:29] <gary_poster> bac benji danilos...gmb!  welcome back
[13:29] <gmb> :)
[13:29] <gmb> Thanks
[13:29] <gary_poster> You'll have to regale us with wonderful tales soon :-)
[13:30] <gary_poster> anyway, Skype in just a sec
[13:33] <bac> gmb: "It's not an adventure until something goes wrong"  -- Yvon Chouinard
[13:33] <gmb> bac: Damn straight :)
[13:44] <benji> danilos: lp:~benji/launchpad/bug-740627 has my fix for the show/hide of the level picker; it works reliably except when the unmute button is clicked
[13:45] <benji> danilos: I'm going to find the bug that 740627 is a duplicate of and mark 740627 as such
[13:45] <danilos> benji, heh, I am at about the same state :)
[13:45] <danilos> benji, bug 770239,
[13:45] <_mup_> Bug #770239: Animation for bug notification level options is broken <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/770239 >
[13:46] <gary_poster> OK, I want to get what we said in writing.  danilos claims the bug page un/subscribe links and un/mute links.  He does not claim anything on the +subscriptions pages, he does not claim the direct subscriber list on the bug page, and he does not claim the "Edit all your subscriptions" link on the bug page.  Does that sound right?
[13:46] <danilos> benji, I'll try out your branch (I've fixed basically all the problems in the animation, including flickering, jumpiness), and quick switching from slide-out to slide-in
[13:46] <danilos> gary_poster, sounds about right
[13:47] <danilos> gary_poster, s/about//
[13:47] <gary_poster> ok cool thanks
[13:47] <benji> danilos: actually, 770239 is a duplicate of 740627
[13:47] <gary_poster> s//about/: even better :-)
[13:47] <benji> (if we go by date filed, the one I was working on was filed by Diogo about a month ago)
[13:48] <danilos> benji, right, agreed :)
[13:49] <danilos> benji, I was not trying to be nitpicky, and maybe your branch hass exactly the bits that I am missing to make this complete
[13:49] <benji> cool
[13:50] <benji> gary_poster: what's the proper way for me to dispose of my card?  It seems either moving it to Rubbish would be right (since I started it but won't finish) or reassigning it to Danilo
[13:50] <gary_poster> benji, +1 on reassign to Danilo
[13:51] <benji> k
[13:52] <benji> danilos: that branch also fixes 770460 which may be a duplicate, I filed it yesterday when looking at the other bug
[13:52] <benji> danilos: I've assigned those two cards to you
[13:52] <danilos> benji, right, I am looking at both bugs, thanks
[13:54] <danilos> benji, btw, for that XXX re resizing fix (bug 728457), I found that it just takes stopping the slide-out animation if it's in progress to avoid all re-drawing bugs in that area
[13:54] <_mup_> Bug #728457: effects slide_in/out sometimes break resizing <LAZR Javascript Library:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/728457 >
[15:15] <bac> danilos: if i work on 770245 it won't overlap with you, right?
[15:16] <bac> bug 770245
[15:16] <_mup_> Bug #770245: Unsubscribing a team from a dupe doesn't work in advanced subscription overlay <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/770245 >
[15:16] <danilos> bac, you most likely will, but I don't think it'd be a big deal
[15:17] <danilos> bac, basically, the core issue is to pass the data into the form that certain team subscription is from a dupe
[15:17] <bac> danilos: right
[15:18] <bac> danilos: fixing the bug isn't a problem...just want to ensure i'm not in your way or will be run over by your work
[15:19] <danilos> bac, right, just let me know when you have landed the fix and I'll merge with your branch (I am pretty sure you'll be done faster than me :)
[15:53] <bac> gary_poster: i did boot to my VM and it worked fine.  i then hooked up my new natty VM to mount the real /home and that worked too.
[15:54] <gary_poster> bac, awesome.  I may have to try that.
[15:54] <gary_poster> bac, is there a page on how to do that?  I didn't see a description on how to do that on the mac/ubuntu pages
[15:54] <bac> gary_poster: sounds like you've got a pretty unique set up you like, though
[15:54] <bac> gary_poster: http://bradcrittenden.net/post/1149823625/ubuntu-on-mac-direct-boot-and-virtualization
[15:55] <bac> gary_poster: and the hot off the presses: http://bradcrittenden.net/post/4956963335/creating-a-new-virtual-machine-using-an-existing-real
[15:56] <bac> gary_poster: if you go down that road, save yourself lots of pain and don't use encrypted home directories.
[15:56] <gary_poster> bac, unique set up that I like: true, but I feel it should be easier for me to continue to give Ubuntu a try as a working desktop on metal.  as it is my set up is kind of "given up, but works great for what I need"
[15:56] <gary_poster> pages: awesome, thank you!  and no, I won't
[15:56] <gary_poster> I'm not as paranoid as I probably should be
[15:57] <bac> all i have on that machine are launchpad branches that are public anyway
[16:00] <gary_poster> heh
[16:01] <gary_poster> well, and your super secret keys that let you commit and sign and stuff, yeah?
[16:28] <benji> Oops, I just realized I fixed two medium bugs; I'll have to be more carful about that.  At least Matthew will feel loved.
[16:30]  * danilos -> off
[18:19] <benji> danilos: will I step on your toes if I work on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/771335?
[18:19] <_mup_> Bug #771335: Title of add subscription widget can wrap if long. <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/771335 >
[18:19] <benji> I bet Danilo is gone now.
[18:32] <gary_poster> thank you gmb!
[18:32] <gary_poster> danilos said "-> off" earlier, yeah
[18:50] <gary_poster> ooh benji, you are tackling "I get lp bug mail even though..." again!  A glutton for punishment! :-)
[18:51] <benji> There can be only one. <cue Queen>
[18:51] <gary_poster> heh
[19:45] <bac> hi gary_poster, i'm working on bug 770245 that danilos filed.  i've been trying to reproduce the problem locally but cannot.  are you familiar with this bug?
[19:45] <_mup_> Bug #770245: Unsubscribing a team from a dupe doesn't work in advanced subscription overlay <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/770245 >
[19:46] <gary_poster> oh, look, mup has decided to play now
[19:46] <bac> yes, mup awoke this morning.  good mup.
[19:46] <gary_poster> cool
[19:47] <gary_poster> bac, I'm pretty sure that bug has to do with the direct bug subscription, not the structural subscription.  Are we on the same page?
[19:47] <bac> gary_poster: yep
[19:47] <gary_poster> s/the//
[19:47] <bac> gary_poster: here's what i did
[19:48] <bac> login as commercial member
[19:48] <bac> make 2 a dupe of 1
[19:48] <bac> on 2, subscribe commercial-approvers team, which i administer
[19:49] <bac> on 1, 'edit subscriptions' and 'unsubscribe commercial-approvers'.  watch commercial-approvers disappear.
[19:49] <bac> scratch head
[19:50] <gary_poster> bac, I dunno.  it is worth noting your results in the bug, at the least.  That said, isn't that in the category of "danilo is working on the bug subscription stuff for a couple more days, so don't touch it without coordinating with him" that we talked about this morning?  I wouldn't touch it right now, myself (other than to record your difficulty duping)
[19:50] <bac> gary_poster: i discussed it with him before starting and he said there would be minimal overlap.
[19:51] <gary_poster> oh ok nm
[19:51] <bac> but i agree, i'll just put down my observations and move along
[19:51] <gary_poster> cool
[19:51] <gary_poster> bac, feel free to even mark in invalid.  we can always change our minds later
[19:51] <gary_poster> mark *it
[19:51] <bac> ok
[19:55] <bac> gary_poster: i found the problem.  the team is being removed by JS from the page but the unsubscribe doesn't happen.
[19:55] <gary_poster> bac, so a reload make it re-appear/
[19:56] <gary_poster> ?
[19:56] <bac> gary_poster: indeed
[19:56] <gary_poster> bac, heh, ah-ha.
[19:57] <bac> i expected to get a big red error message
[20:25] <benji> Time for disappointment, er dentist appointment.
[21:04] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:06] <bac> gary_poster: ping
[22:06] <gary_poster> bac, yo
[22:06] <bac> gary_poster: hmm.  my interwebs are partially out.  but irc works fine
[22:06] <gary_poster> huh
[22:06] <bac> dns works
[22:06] <gary_poster> weird
[22:07] <bac> web no worky
[22:07] <gary_poster> :-/


[04:08] <mup> PR operator#490 opened: *-workload-ready becomes *-pebble-ready <Created by hpidcock> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/490>
[08:32] <mup> Issue operator#491 opened: Method to reload services using pebble <Created by mthaddon> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/491>
[21:53] <mup> PR operator#490 closed: *-workload-ready becomes *-pebble-ready <Created by hpidcock> <Merged by hpidcock> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/490>


[18:41] <Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1104435 fixed in saucy, chance it'll get SRU'd to Raring?
[21:01] <phillw> Noskcaj: before nicholas sends out the email, are you okay with your allocation on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy for test drive?
[21:02] <Noskcaj> phillw, yep
[21:02] <phillw> Noskcaj: any others you want to get involved in... get your name on the list!
[21:58] <Noskcaj> is anyone willing to make an autopilot testcase for xubuntu?
[22:05] <Unit193> knome: Found the old xubuntu-q.pdf seems we still didn't finish some postponed blueprints. :P  Bluebird and Albatross are both GTK3, menus editor has been sorted a little, but seems we wanted kbdleds in the repos (still do?) and something with plymouth and lightdm (that we did.)
[22:05] <knome> kbdleds needed a patch or sth
[22:06] <knome> i don't know the status of that
[22:06] <Unit193> Sure, no big deal, just had noticed my tab complete found something other than just xubuntu-docs, and re-read the doc.
[22:06] <knome> :)
[23:32] <Unit193> Could we add a sane launcher for Additional drivers to Settings Manager or System?  It is supported with  software-properties-gtk --open-tab=4


[04:55] <leandro> does anyone know why by changing the mouse pointer theme it dissapears? thanks
[04:55] <leandro> (the mouse cursor dissapears while moving)
[13:33] <lubricant> Hi, am running Lubuntu on a celeron dell inspiron 2200 series. Needless to say problems are with the wifi , can anyone please advice. Bios has wifi on and i have the b43 drivers installed
[13:39] <Silverlion> rehi lubricant i may not be able to advice you but maybe you would like to post your problem on http://ubuntuforums.org/?
[13:39] <lubricant> Silverlion, was advised to go to linux-wireless not sure which network its on though
[13:40]  * Silverlion neither
[13:40] <Silverlion> but the forums is always a good place to post such questions because there are more people then on irc
[13:42] <lubricant> Silverlion, yes - there are already many posts which i have trawled through and cannot find a solution hence asking here
[13:43] <lubricant> Silverlion, found #linux-wireless seems its on freenode
[13:43] <Silverlion> then try there ;)
[13:43] <lubricant> trying :-)
[13:45] <lubricant> On another note - am amazed at Lubuntu - am using a spin called lxle and its thrilling - esp after my younger machine died had to move back to this old celeron, lubuntu booted no sweat with no grub parameters required and here i am working away with a niggling wifi problem
[13:50] <lubricant> Hey, trying a different tack - i have a wifi pci card inserted, how do i figure out if that can work without propreiotory drivers
[13:50] <lubricant> *proprietory
[15:09] <cerebratelu> somehow i disabled my x
[15:09] <cerebratelu> i usually use lxde
[15:10] <cerebratelu> startx doesn't functino
[15:15] <cerebratelu> quit
[15:18] <tehCereluenn> how do i initiate lxde from terminal
[17:59] <Kamilion> Having a bit of a weird problem, lubuntu 12.10... Doing a bit of flask webdev on my netbook, and every time I reboot, the directory /var/run/uwsgi dissapears and I have to recreate it and chown it www-data.
[18:00] <Kamilion> Any idea what it is I'm doing that's triggering that? btrfs filesystem, with btrfs-apt-snapshot.
[18:01] <inductiveload> Kamilion: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/fhs-5.13.html
[18:01] <xnox> Kamilion: /var/run is a symlink to /run, which is a tmpfs filesystem. It's created in RAM every time you boot.
[18:01] <Kamilion> How interesting -- on my server that isn't occuring.
[18:01] <inductiveload> /var/run is cleared at boot time
[18:01] <Kamilion> And all the stuff in it's recreated every boot?
[18:02] <xnox> Kamilion: i can't remember when we switched to tmfs, but it's a cross-distro move (e.g. fedora, debian, suse are all on board)
[18:02] <xnox> Kamilion: yes.
[18:02] <Kamilion> yeah -- i'm familiar with systemd's push for this stuff
[18:02] <xnox> Kamilion: so is that a package from the ubuntu archive that relies on /var/run/uwsgi, or something you compiled yourself?
[18:02] <Kamilion> where can I register to have an empty dir created for my .sock files?
[18:03] <xnox> Kamilion: no, /run was first proposed by ubuntu security team, and later spread elsewhere.
[18:03] <Kamilion> pip install uwsgi, and a simple upstart job in /etc/init/uwsgi.conf to start an emporor
[18:03] <xnox> Kamilion: i'd recommend you install uwsgi with apt-get.
[18:03] <Kamilion> won't work
[18:03] <xnox> as that should work properly.
[18:03] <Kamilion> way too old
[18:03] <Kamilion> doesn't even take the same --options
[18:04] <Kamilion> everything else is in a venv but pip, setuptools, and uwsgi.
[18:04] <xnox> Kamilion: ok. in that case you'll need to extend upstart job to create the dir you want, or possibly have two upstart jobs, one to create /var/run/uwsgi and the real upstart job to depend on that one.
[18:04] <Kamilion> like a preexec?
[18:05] <Kamilion> I just wrote a bunch of systemd units for another system a couple weeks ago... *goes to look at upstart docs*
[18:07] <Kamilion> perfect.
[18:07] <xnox> Kamilion: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
[18:07] <Kamilion> I got it.
[18:08] <Kamilion> pre-start script
[18:08] <Kamilion>     mkdir -p /var/run/uwsgi; chown www-data.www-data /var/run/uwsgi; # prepare environment
[18:08] <Kamilion> end script
[18:08] <Kamilion> exec $UWSGI --master --emperor "/var/www/sites/*/config/*.ini" --die-on-term --uid www-data --gid www-data --logto $LOGTO
[18:08] <xnox> =))))))
[18:09] <Kamilion> can I squish that mkdir/chown into a single command somehow?
[18:09] <xnox> yes.
[18:09] <Kamilion> *man mkdir*
[18:09] <xnox> man install
[18:10] <xnox> install -d -g www-data -o www-data /var/run/uwsgi
[18:11] <Kamilion> ahh, great. That feels so much cleaner.
[18:11] <Kamilion> Should I clean up after myself with a postexec?
[18:11] <Kamilion> or just let the bootscript do it's job?
[18:12] <Kamilion> eh, i'll let the bootscript do it's job.
[18:12] <xnox> Kamilion: the beaute of /run is that you shouldn't clean up, as you will not have a chance if for example it all bursts into flames =)
[18:13] <Kamilion> lol
[18:13] <Kamilion> will keep that in mind
[18:13] <Kamilion> afk for a bit; doing some testing on this app coming back to life from coldboot... (yay, znc!)
[18:37] <Kamilion> yay, all works well from coldboot now. Thanks, xnox, inductiveload!
[18:37] <xnox> =)
[19:03] <Kamilion> Heh -- no wonder why I havn't seen this behavior on the webserver
[19:04] <Kamilion> 19:03:49 up 99 days, 23:33,  4 users,  load average: 0.11, 0.09, 0.06
[19:04] <Kamilion> it hasn't reboot for /var/run to be cleared... Better fix that problem before it does!
[19:08] <Kamilion> xnox: Thanks, probably saved me a headscratcher in a couple months when someone finally does get around to rebooting it
[19:09] <xnox> yeah, not many servers survive reboots after ages of operation.
[19:10] <Kamilion> i've tried to be diligent about making upstart jobs and systemd units on all the systems. I'm pretty proud of my autossh systemd unit, hehe
[22:12] <cerebrate> how do i change the colors of the elements of windows on lubuntu?  i want bright yet subdued hues please