[08:41] <anir> hey guys.. my desktop is totally blank.. how will i bring the icons to the desktop?
[08:41] <Treenaks> anir: they're in your "computer" menu
[08:42] <rapha> anir: Try right-clicking your desktop, and select "New Folder"
[08:42] <veran> desktop icons are evul
[08:42] <rapha> anir: Or just drag-and-drop something from the Application menu to the desktop
[08:42] <Synek> veran ;)
[08:42] <anir> okay..
[08:42] <rapha> veran: That's preference, to a degree. I myself have set my desktop to be my homefolder because it lets me work the most efficient.
[08:42] <anir> so  what is equvalent for "My Computer" in windows?
[08:43] <mjt> even winxp now tends to avoid icons on the desktop, btw... ;)
[08:43] <rapha> amir: Look for "Computer" right next to "Applications" in the top-left corner of your screen.
[08:44] <bogon> where do I find a package list of warty?
[08:44] <anir> yes.. they are but sometimes they are useful too
[08:44] <anir> for the keyboard shortcut
[08:44] <paulproteu1> bogon: In Synaptic you should be able to see it.
[08:44] <anir> hey guys.. bye for now..
[08:44] <anir> i will come tomorrow
[08:44] <anir> thankx a lot again
[08:44] <anir> :)
[08:45] <anir> thank you all
[08:45] <mjt> yw, anir
[08:45] <iz> bogon, or use the apt-cache search
[08:45] <bogon> I mean before installing or even downloading the iso :->
[08:45] <iz> there is a list
[08:46] <mjt> take a look at debian, bogon -- there's a (super)list of packages there
[08:48] <bogon> hmm, I'm looking for a list of all the packages that are on the ubuntu cd
[08:48] <mjt> ;)
[08:48] <jiyuu0> bogon, try http://ubuntuguide.org/#findprogramslibrarieslistubuntu
[08:48] <bogon> thanks
[08:49] <jiyuu0> no prob
[08:49] <choisy> hi there
[08:50] <choisy> how is hoary going stability wise these days?
[08:50] <RubenV> always been stable here
[08:51] <iz> i read a nice article about warty to hoary http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9098
[08:52] <thully> hi - anyone have an intel-8x0 based sound chip and use hoary here?
[08:52] <bogon> no tin, no slrn... does warty have any text-based newsreader?
[08:54] <iz> bogon, trn4 - Threaded USENET news reader
[08:54] <jiyuu0> bogon, u can apt-get it
[08:55] <bogon> using the default repository?
[08:55] <jiyuu0> ya
[08:55] <rapha> thully
[08:55] <tim1> anybody got xorg and fglrx running ?
[08:55] <rapha> thully: I'm using one right now
[08:56] <thully> have you had issues with the sound server?  I'm been having problems since a few weeks ago-but these didn't occur in warty
[08:59] <thully> in particular, i've been having problems w/apps which don't use the sound server - I get no audio from them
[08:59] <rapha> thully: Yeah I had that after an upgrade a couple of days ago. Now its just disabled...
[09:01] <thully> did they change the sound server?
[09:01] <thully> I got into a big discussion of this - but it sounds like they won't do anything since the only apps affected are not Ubuntu main apps - is this your experience
[09:02] <bpd1069> goodday all...
[09:02] <iz> bpd1069, aloha
[09:03] <bogon> hello
[09:03] <bpd1069> trying to get my wachy networking configuration to incorporate my playstation2... but i think i messed up my eth0 interface...
[09:04] <bpd1069> anyone know how to remove the IFF_POINTOPOINT flag on an interface?
[09:05] <bpd1069> i have all of these eth0:0:1 and eth0:1 links  :(
[09:05] <choisy> ubuntu definitly rocks on ppc :)
[09:06] <mjt> ifconfig ... -pointopoint ?
[09:07] <rapha> thully: no idea
[09:07] <__learner__> ubuntu rocks on x86 to
[09:07] <choisy> then, we could say ubuntu rocks
[09:07] <bpd1069> mjt: will try...
[09:07] <__learner__> I have to go for some momentsa, Need to do someything in windows. Blah! Dear god, make macromedia and photoshop tools to run under linux! That's my christmas wish.
[09:07] <mjt> bpd1069: but i think you're doing something strange...
[09:08] <__learner__> good bye
[09:08] <bpd1069> didn't work...
[09:08] <mjt> the -pointopoint flag is an answerto your exact queestion.  but after that, your iface will probably be unusable.
[09:09] <bpd1069> mjt :  yes I am!  shows wat happens when you tr to learn iptables at 5am
[09:09] <mjt> iptables has NOTHING to do with interface flags
[09:10] <goatboy> daniels: does your latest blog mean you've gotten Xorg's startup down to 26 opens?
[09:10] <mjt> the best way imho is just to do ifup --force
[09:10] <bpd1069> i am trying to route all ps2 trafic to my nic.. then forward over wlan0 to my wireless router...   (no physical connection to the internet)
[09:10] <mike998> is there any way to create virtual channels for my sound card so that I can play doom and listen to mp3s at the same time?
[09:10] <mike998> I know it can be done if I was running FreeBSD using sysctl
[09:10] <mjt> and how's iptables involved here, again ? ;)
[09:11] <daniels> goatboy: seconds
[09:11] <mjt> mike998: try esound
[09:11] <bpd1069> well trying to institute a simple NAT for the PS2
[09:11] <goatboy> oh, still amazing.
[09:11] <daniels> goatboy: 26sec for total startup, not xorg, obviously
[09:11] <mike998> mjt: man esound will give me?
[09:11] <bpd1069> mjt: and in the process messed up my eth0
[09:12] <|QuaD-> daniels: 26 seconds???? how did you manage that
[09:12] <bpd1069> mjt: keep in mind I am learning all of this stuff, so I expect to break things.. just frustrating whn I can't put them back
[09:12] <daniels> |QuaD-: that was thom working on readahead and sanitising some daemons, with me working heavily on x and gdm
[09:12] <daniels> |QuaD-: and scott working on cupsys, iirc
[09:12] <mjt> mike998: there's no "channels" like in freebsd, but there's userspace software that does that, acting as intermediate between apps and soundcard
[09:13] <daniels> |QuaD-: (it was actually 29 seconds, and there's still scott's parallel hotplug/udev stuff to put in)
[09:13] <|QuaD-> daniels: are you going to put that through to hoary? or is that just a pet project
[09:13] <mike998> mjt - will try google... thx
[09:13] <daniels> |QuaD-: absolutely -- everything we do is hoary
[09:13] <|QuaD-> so my system will boot in 29 seconds?
[09:13] <mjt> mike998: esound is one of them, there are others. all are available in debian (and thus ubunto)
[09:14] <mjt> bpd1069: i think the best for you is to "refresh" your interfaces (ifup --force or whatever; maybe fix your /etc/network/interfaces)
[09:14] <Synek> hm, my sarge used to boot < 30 sec
[09:15] <bpd1069> thanks...
[09:15] <Synek> actually i've bin ssh'ing on aterm by that time :)
[09:15] <Synek> s/bin/been/ ;)
[09:16] <mjt> bpd1069: note iptables really has nothing to do with interface flags.. diotto for routing
[09:16] <Q-FUNK> it has to be said that the default boot order of certain packages like ssh sucks in Debian already.
[09:16] <mjt> why ssh order sucks?
[09:17] <mjt> note there's no single answer. for one, it should run earlier, for other, it should be later...
[09:17] <Q-FUNK> started too late in the boot order.  It used to be started much ealier, which made it easy to use it to rescue hosts from disastrous loppholes by remote, well before the fautive app starts.
[09:18] <Quest-Master> Anyone know why this is happening? :\ http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7805
[09:19] <mjt> well.. here, ssh uses default level 20. it may be a good idea to move it to, say, 19, after 15bind and 18quotarpc.
[09:20] <_scp> I am having problems with a cdburner not ejecting and locking up my entire system 5 minutes after I hit the eject button on the unit... any ideas?
[09:21] <Q-FUNK> S19 seems like a good spot, yes.  right after portmap and way before cups, samba and every other service.
[09:21] <_scp> it happens only after the machine has been up for about 24hrs
[09:21] <mjt> Q-FUNK: and you can' really fix an app which is started right after ssh, anyway (think about 30sec startup time... ;)
[09:22] <_scp> there isn't a disc in the drive, yet it says { Busy } and locks the machine
[09:22] <Q-FUNK> mjt: I've done it, back on Potato.
[09:23] <_scp> I have posted to the forums but no one has responded after 2 days
[09:24] <_scp> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7587
[09:24] <Q-FUNK> remote command using an RSA key to immediately issue  "dpkg -P foobar" as soon as I see that ssh is up (I use a centralized logger).
[09:24] <mjt> heh
[09:25] <Q-FUNK> back in potato days, when ssh was among the first few services started in rc2, it worked.
[09:26] <craig> Hey guys, I gotta question.. Can the Terminal Server Client in Ubuntu connect to a Windows XP machine
[09:26] <Q-FUNK> nowadays, with thta default s20, the buggy service has enough time to be up and crashing before the ssh server is.
[09:26] <paulproteus> craig: Windows XP Pro has a remote desktop server that this can connect to.
[09:26] <daniels> Q-FUNK: that is so not a valid use case
[09:27] <Q-FUNK> daniels: and what would be a valid case to justify moving it later, then?
[09:27] <craig> yes.. I have the IP of the computer I want to connect to.. Is there anything else I need? Do I need to tell XP user anything to let this work?
[09:27] <IRCMonkey> hello i cannot get audio with ubuntucan anybody help me?
[09:28] <craig> have you checked your mixer settings IRCMonkey?
[09:29] <IRCMonkey> i think it doesn't recognize the audio card
[09:29] <craig> hmm.. Do you know what Sound Card you have?
[09:30] <IRCMonkey> sound max , i got an hp laptop
[09:30] <va23> Does anyone know an easy way to get the eMusic download manager on ubuntu?  Is there a package I can apt-get?
[09:31] <craig> Ahh, darn.. I can't help ya there, I haven't had much experience with using ubuntu on laptops.. altho I could tell you the answer by next week.. altho, that's a lil' too late, methinks
[09:31] <IRCMonkey> that would be great my email is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:31] <scumler> hi, does anybody know how to put to work an isa-pnp aztech1008 soundcard with an azt2320 chipset?
[09:32] <craig> ok, in the meantime, you could try googling www.google.co.uk/linux with "Ubuntu" Soundcard "HP" "Soundmax"
[09:32] <scumler> it seems alsa doesn't have that driver in its ubuntu's release
[09:32] <IRCMonkey> thanks  i will look around the web
[09:33] <craig> scumler.. you could try using one from another distro
[09:33] <craig> say, fedora
[09:33] <scumler> with ubuntu?
[09:33] <scumler> an rpm package? how?
[09:34] <craig> I'm not sure whether it'd be in an rpm.. if it is you'd have to use hex to install it otherwise the package won't be visible to dpkg
[09:34] <scaramanga> hello
[09:34] <craig> Ok, maybe not hex..
[09:34] <craig> I'll just look for the prog name
[09:35] <scumler> craig: I'll take a look at that approach, but I'm very lost in that things...:(
[09:35] <scaramanga> does anybody know if ubuntu recognizes wlan-usb-sticks? oO
[09:36] <scumler> craig: it seems that ubuntu has an rpm package installed!
[09:36] <scumler> i'll play a bit with it...thanks for the answer
[09:36] <craig> it does.. I found librpm installed too
[09:36] <craig> ok, no problem, sorry I couldn't help you more..
[09:37] <craig> scaramanga: er, I don't think so. but there's no harm in trying.. plug it in, see what happens
[09:39] <craig> paulproteus: I have the IP of the computer I want to connect to.. Is there anything else I need? Do I need to tell the XP user anything to let this work?
[09:40] <scaramanga> kk thx
[09:42] <IRCMonkey> hello again, i did an apt-get upgrade and now when i try to be root it doesn't recognize my password, any ideas?
[09:46] <scaramanga> sorry i'm a nub.. ^^ i don't get the "networking", "users" and "printing" modules in the "system configuration" submenu. any idea why? oO
[09:48] <epotash> how can i enter a url for a package with the "install" command
[09:51] <scumler> epotash: are you talking about the apt-get install "package"?
[09:51] <epotash> well, what im tryingt to do is get http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_0.2.45ubuntu10_i386.deb
[09:51] <epotash> i just did a min install of debian
[09:51] <epotash> and now i want to get ubuntu
[09:51] <scumler> well
[09:51] <scumler> just use synaptic
[09:51] <epotash> how can i just copy that package to my local dir
[09:51] <scumler> or aptitude
[09:52] <scumler> yes, you can
[09:52] <scumler> but there are smarter ways
[09:52] <scumler> that can save you laterer headaches
[09:52] <epotash> isnt synaptic a graphical app
[09:52] <epotash> i did a very minimal install
[09:52] <scumler> yes it is
[09:52] <scumler> well
[09:52] <scumler> try aptitude
[09:52] <scumler> or apt-get
[09:52] <scumler> they are console tools
[09:52] <epotash> yeah
[09:52] <epotash> i know apt-get
[09:52] <epotash> do i have to add a source
[09:53] <epotash> or can i just enter the entire dir
[09:53] <epotash> path*
[09:53] <defunkt> all right...another problem to solve for defunkt if anyone is up to it :)
[09:53] <scumler> first do "apt-cache search -thepackage you ar looking for-"
[09:53] <scumler> to see if the package is in the sources you already have
[09:53] <epotash> why would that ubuntu package be there
[09:53] <choisy> my system is in french (i mean, even cli apps), how can I get english back?
[09:54] <scumler> ....where "there"?
[09:54] <epotash> in my apt sources
[09:54] <epotash> this is a debian system
[09:54] <scumler> aps
[09:54] <scumler> did you say it before?
[09:54] <scumler> I didn't notice it...
[09:54] <epotash> yah
[09:54] <scumler> sorry then
[09:54] <scumler> well
[09:54] <scumler> just a second
[09:54] <epotash> im following the instructions to upgrade deb to ubuntu
[09:55] <epotash> or trying to
[09:55] <scaramanga> i don't get the "networking", "users" and "printing" modules in the "system configuration" submenu. any idea why? oO
[09:55] <scumler> is it supposed to work?
[09:55] <epotash> well, the instructions arent very specific
[09:56] <rjjrjl> Have installed Ubuntu twice and both times Music Player just won't work. XMMS plays fine but no song titles(shoutcast) Any thoughts?
[09:56] <scumler> ok..ok, if you want I can list my sources.list
[09:56] <billytwowilly> well, I took the plunge and updated my kernel.. now sound doesn't work.
[09:56] <Davide> hello ubuntu won't let me be root user, he doesn't recognize my passwd
[09:56] <billytwowilly> Davide, you have to set the root password with the user manager
[09:56] <tomchuk> Davide: Ubuntu doesn't use root, use sudo instead
[09:56] <billytwowilly> Davide, or do what tomchuk said
[09:57] <epotash> scumler: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallFromOtherDistroHowto
[09:57] <epotash> interesting that it only gives instructions for an rpm dist
[09:57] <tomchuk> Davide: or do "sudo passwd root" to set the root password
[09:57] <epotash> how can i just download the .deb file to my home dir in the shell
[09:57] <epotash> anyone know how to copy a file from url to local
[09:57] <tomchuk> epotash: wget <url>
[09:57] <epotash> cool
[09:58] <tomchuk> then dpkg -i <package>.deb
[09:58] <scaramanga> i don't get the "networking", "users" and "printing" modules in the "system configuration" submenu. any idea why?
[09:58] <choisy> I miss epiphany ;)
[09:58] <epotash> thanks tomchuck, works
[09:58] <tomchuk> np
[09:58] <billytwowilly> any ideas why my sound no longer works?
[09:58] <ajmitch_> morning
[09:58] <scumler> epotash: if you want to keep a good track of what packages are installed and their dependencies, do not use dpkg. Use aptitude instead
[09:58] <tomchuk> billytwowilly: custom compiled kernel/
[09:58] <tomchuk> ?
[09:59] <Davide> i try to go to user manager but it won't recognize my passwd either
[09:59] <billytwowilly> Tomcat_, hoary with the new 2.6.9 kernel
[09:59] <defunkt> anyone in here have quake3 on their ubuntu machien?
[09:59] <|QuaD-> billytwowilly: when i installed 2.6.9, x wouldn't work cuz nvidia drivers not compiled for it
[10:00] <billytwowilly> X works fine.. mplayer doesn't even error out, which is weird. Basically that means it thinks it is talking to esd...
[10:01] <scaramanga> pleeaaaase tell me !  the "networking", "users" and "printing" modules in the "system configuration" submenu aren't there in my hard drive installation while they are in the live cd. why?
[10:01] <tomchuk> scaramanga: are you logged in as the first user you created during installation?
[10:01] <epotash> is warty the latest ubuntu?
[10:01] <TGCenter10> I am new to IRC -- I was wondering if anyone could help?  I just attempted to install ubuntu linux on my system 2x and it failed.  Both times when I reached the screen resolution choice screen -- my keyboard lost function.  I am lost?
[10:02] <va23> Does anyone know an easy way to get the eMusic download manager on ubuntu?  Is there a package I can apt-get?
[10:02] <billytwowilly> hmm. alsamixer shows PCM as being off. How do I turn it on?
[10:02] <choisy> I can(t seem to play simple mpg files with totem... is there any codecs I need to install ??
[10:02] <tomchuk> va23: download the rpm and use alien to install it
[10:04] <tomchuk> billytwowilly: use up/down to adjust volume and 'm' to mute/unmute
[10:04] <Davide> can i change the root passwd with a sudo command??
[10:04] <tomchuk> Davide: sudo passwd root
[10:05] <epotash> after i installed the ubuntu debootstrap scripts, i tried running them and it says that it failed to get the release file
[10:05] <billytwowilly> tomchuk, Thanks, Figured it out. space turned it back on.
[10:05] <billytwowilly> anyhoo, gotta get back to work.
[10:05] <billytwowilly> Thanks for the help guys
[10:05] <billytwowilly> cheers
[10:05] <epotash> the url i entered is "http://archive.ubuntu.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu
[10:06] <va23> tomchuk: Thanks, should I do alien --install <rpm_file_name>
[10:06] <Davide> thanks now it recognize my password again, for some reason it recognized the passwrd only calling applications with sudo and not wit ghui.
[10:06] <peza> hi all :o) little question: anybody got any idea why when i try installing ubuntu it keeps bailing out saying that it cannot find the kernel-image-386 but there is such a package on the cd? The discs work fine in another machine, but i fail to see how the hardware of this machine will cause this type of error. Is it a known issue? (hardware is a cheap dell2400 btw)
[10:08] <tomchuk> va23: no, just "alien filename" and it will create a deb which you can install with dpkg -i
[10:08] <choisy> there is no other video player than totem in ubuntu?
[10:08] <va23> Oh, I already did alien -i, it seems to have worked fine.
[10:09] <tomchuk> va23: cool, no problem then
[10:09] <Nivlem> choisy: Install xine maybe? Or mplayer...
[10:09] <choisy> Nivlem: just apt-get them?
[10:10] <will> peza: could be that that dell can't read the right sectors of the cd, try re burning, or use a prepressed cd
[10:10] <strixy> as per the FAQ, "(the postfix install only listens on localhost)" - can anyone explain why this is?
[10:10] <Nivlem> choisy: If you have universe/multiverse in your repositories
[10:11] <va23> Still have to install ncsd, tho.
[10:11] <tomchuk> strixy: the postfix smtp server doesn't listen for connections on you network interfaces
[10:11] <Mesta> does dist-upgrade 'ing to hoary take more than one try?  I did this last night and this mourning dist-upgrade says there more to dist-upgrade to
[10:11] <va23> *nscd
[10:12] <tomchuk> Mesta: hoary is a moving target, there will be new packages every day
[10:12] <Nivlem> Mesta:In my experience trying to update a second time will bork your upgrade!
[10:12] <TGCenter10> Sorry as I stated I am new to IRC - and like an idiot, kicked myself off, so here is my post again -- I am new to IRC -- I was wondering if anyone could help?  I just attempted to install ubuntu linux on my system 2x and it failed.  Both times when I reached the screen resolution choice screen -- my keyboard lost function.  I am lost?
[10:12] <falco> t
[10:12] <falco> hi
[10:12] <bur[n] er> hoary killed my /proc/net
[10:12] <bur[n] er> i have no net access :\
[10:12] <peza> will: thanks, yeah i have tried a few different types of cd media some recordable some of the pre pressed variety, its still the same. I can alt+f3 (or 2 i forget), to the console and cd into the directory with the missing kernel .debs i can then manually install them, but i cant seem to get the auto installer to do it for some reason...?
[10:12] <scaramanga> when i'm trying to log in as root, i type in root and the root password but nothing happens.
[10:12] <bur[n] er> oh well, maybe just wait till next release
[10:12] <strixy> tomchuk: I am wondering why it's set this way? If I am running postfix (I would assume) that I would want it to listen to network for either LAN or WAN mail delivery.
[10:13] <Nivlem> scaramanga: That is because it uses sudo to do root things...
[10:13] <netmonk> I just updated acpi through smart upgrade in synaptic. where can I read what are the changes?
[10:13] <Nivlem> scaramanga:If you must "su" then do sudo su
[10:13] <tomchuk> strixy: 99.9% of people don't want this, they just need local mail delivery from cron scripts and spt
[10:13] <peza> TGCenter10: What type of graphics card have you got?
[10:13] <strixy> more to the point, this is what I wish to do, and I'm wondering which file I need to edit to change this.
[10:14] <tomchuk> strixy: an open smtp server is a dangerous thing, I'd suggest you read some documentation on postfix before opening it to the world
[10:15] <thread> hey everybody
[10:15] <strixy> is there a better option in ubuntu for running a mail server?
[10:15] <tomchuk> strixy: not really, what makes you want to run a mail server?
[10:16] <strixy> I've learned everything else?? ha ha
[10:16] <thread> I'm trying to help set up ubuntu on my friend's computer, and no matter what we try, we can't get anything more than 'disc' and 'part1' to show up in /dev/ide... even though we want to install ubuntu on part3, the file simply isn't getting created in the devfs
[10:16] <tomchuk> strixy: cool, well learning is good, soes your box have a private IP?
[10:16] <tomchuk> s/soes/does/
[10:16] <TGCenter10> peza: I am not sure of the exact graphics card; it is the base card on a IBM R31 laptop -- My initial thought was that the graphics card was the hicup, but when I ran the install a second time my keyboard failed after the first screen.
[10:16] <thread> we've narrowed down the reason for the installer to fail creating the filesystem to the missing part2 and part3 files
[10:16] <strixy> tomchuk: by private you mean?..
[10:17] <va23> Sweet, it works like a charm.  Thanks a lot tomchuk!
[10:17] <tomchuk> strixy: non-routabel beginging in 192,172 or 10.xxx.xxx.xxx
[10:17] <tomchuk> va23: np
[10:17] <strixy> tomchuh: internally, yes
[10:18] <tomchuk> strixy: cool, then go nuts and as long as you don't forward port 25 to the rest of the world you'll be safe
[10:18] <tomchuk> strixy: the file you want is /etc/postfix/main.cf
[10:19] <strixy> tomchuk: can you recommend some reading online for security related postfix concerns? (so I don't go and cause trouble?
[10:19] <thread> nobody's devfs savy enough to answer my question?
[10:19] <tomchuk> strixy: if you're on a residential ISP, most likely you'll be violating your TOS and you email will get bounced from most servers
[10:19] <thread> it seems to me that if fdisk reports partitions 2 and 3 to exist (and it does, we've created them several times) that devfs should automatically create hte part2 and part3 files
[10:20] <strixy> tomchuk: I'm paying for it, so they shouldn'thave a problem
[10:20] <peza> TGCenter10: There is a lot of custom chips in that machine for ibm, have you tried disabling everything on the bootcd command line: "linux acpi=off noapic nolapic ...blaa bla"??
[10:21] <tomchuk> strixy: most residentia ISP's will pull the plug if they see an internet-facing smtp server
[10:22] <TGCenter10> peza: no, that is a good idea!  the only script I ran at boot was "linux vga=771", what will turning off acpi do?
[10:23] <strixy> tomchuk: well, before I go and change that setting I'll do some thinking and more research. I'll also contact my ISP to make sure my SoHO package allows this. Thanks for the heads up :)
[10:24] <squeegy> is there a way for me to use a custom kernel with the ubuntu installer?
[10:25] <strixy> I must hit the road. Staff christmas party tonight. Free everything, even the hotel room!
[10:25] <strixy> thanks Tomchuk
[10:25] <strixy> later
[10:31] <imcsk8_> hello, i'm having problems adding a printer
[10:32] <lazer-> hi, I want to try ubuntu on a toshiba celron craptop. A warty release i386 is the way to go ?
[10:32] <sabdf1> lazer-: yes, 686 kernel should work for you once it's installed
[10:32] <imcsk8_> in the printers panel i click on the add printer button, then ask me my password, i type my password and then it says that it failed to load gnome-cups-add
[10:33] <sabdf1> imcsk8_: are you running warty or hoary?
[10:34] <lazer-> sabdf1: ok thanks, I'm trying to find a very functional linux release
[10:34] <lazer-> I little tired of installing gentoo :)))
[10:34] <sabdf1> lazer-: ubuntu is a good option, though i'm a tad biased :-)
[10:34] <imcsk8_> warty
[10:35] <imcsk8_> i think that X is not listening to other connections
[10:35] <imcsk8_> it haves the -nolisten switch
[10:35] <imcsk8_> does ubuntu allows to configure this or do i have to edit the gdm file?
[10:36] <sabdf1> imcsk8_: hmm... the defaults should work fine
[10:36] <sabdf1> have you edited anything in the X config recently?
[10:36] <imcsk8_> nope
[10:37] <sabdf1> can you also verify that your passwd is correct, by opening a shell and trying to type "sudo gnome-cups-add"
[10:37] <sabdf1> enter
[10:37] <imcsk8_> it gives me a DISPLAY error
[10:38] <sabdf1> ok, that's beyond me
[10:38] <sabdf1> it does sound as though X is being unfriendly
[10:38] <sabdf1> daniels: you around?
[10:38] <lazer-> sabdf1: I'm giving it a try, on my server I actualy run gentoo for 305 days of uptime right now and i love their "emerge" stuff but I'm feeling to try other distro
[10:38] <GotD0t> does anybody have the link to daniels page?
[10:38] <rjek> His home page?
[10:38] <rjek> Well, his blog?
[10:39] <GotD0t> the page about his packages
[10:39] <rjek> Havn't a clue.
[10:39] <daniels> sabdf1: yo
[10:39] <daniels> GotD0t: which packages?
[10:39] <rjek> daniels: I thought you were moving your blog away from ppf, anyway? :)
[10:39] <imcsk8_> yes
[10:39] <sabdf1> daniels: it's imcsk8_ that has an interesting X error
[10:39] <daniels> rjek: yeah, slowly
[10:40] <daniels> imcsk8_: so you can't start new programs?
[10:40] <sabdf1> sudo'd apps aren't able to connet to X for display
[10:40] <daniels> imcsk8_: what happens when you type 'gedit' in a running X session?
[10:40] <imcsk8_> i can't run any administrative application and i don't really want to tweak ubuntu's configuration by hand
[10:40] <daniels> sabdf1: ... bong
[10:40] <GotD0t> daniels: the accelerated drivers
[10:40] <daniels> imcsk8_: if you run sudo cat ~/.Xauthority, does it work?
[10:40] <daniels> GotD0t: they're in hoary now
[10:40] <rjek> daniels: I noticed it was still there this morning when I got a Zeus-provided 404 from it when reading your posting about speeding boot times. :)
[10:41] <daniels> rjek: heh :)
[10:41] <daniels> how'd you end up with a 404?
[10:41] <GotD0t> daniels: oh, are the ati drivers accelerated yet?
[10:41] <Keybuk> because your blog gives out wrong links, told you that an hour ago :)
[10:41] <daniels> GotD0t: er, always have been.  what do you mean?
[10:41] <rjek> I think I followed a link, wondering what it was, as the link's text didn't make it obvious.
[10:41] <daniels> Keybuk: it's already fixed, ergo there is no problem
[10:41] <GotD0t> daniels: in hoary, ATI acceleration didnt work...
[10:41] <Keybuk> rjek said "this morning" :p
[10:42] <daniels> GotD0t: oh, with xorg.  right, not fixed.
[10:42] <imcsk8_> daniels, i closed the session and logged in as other user and now it works fine
[10:42] <GotD0t> daniels: gotcha
[10:42] <daniels> imcsk8_: ah, cool
[10:42] <imcsk8_> that was weird
[10:42] <imcsk8_> thanks for your help
[10:42] <daniels> imcsk8_: no worries
[10:43] <imcsk8_> i definetelly going to recommend ubuntu as a desktop option
[10:43] <daniels> awesome :) glad to hear it
[10:44] <|QuaD-> daniels: how do we request a package for the repos?
[10:44] <daniels> |QuaD-: such as?
[10:44] <|QuaD-> nvu, sunbird
[10:44] <imcsk8_> just one question
[10:45] <Synek> |QuaD-: build your own, it doesn't hurt you :0
[10:45] <Synek> imcsk8_: shoot
[10:45] <|QuaD-> Synek: :) i can do that, or get the linspire package, but i want one built for ub
[10:45] <imcsk8_> how can i manage the authorized computers to print
[10:45] <imcsk8_> i can do it editing cups.conf
[10:46] <imcsk8_> but i want to learn how to do that using the ubuntu tools
[10:46] <Synek> |QuaD-: well, one you build yourself in your ubuntu will be superb to ones in repo, won't it?
[10:46] <daniels> Quazion: i think they're both in universe
[10:47] <|QuaD-> Synek: hehe
[10:47] <|QuaD-> daniels: if that is to me, i don't think they are
[10:47] <Synek> hm]
[10:48] <Synek> imcsk8_: all i know about cups is an funny "cups horror" article ;]
[10:48] <imcsk8_> hehehe
[10:48] <imcsk8_> ok i'll just edit the cupsd.conf file
[10:49] <Synek> imcsk8_: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html - it's realyy worth reading :)
[10:49] <Synek> just for fun, well written stuff ;)
[10:50] <sabdf1> imcsk8_: I think the gnome cups manager stuff allows you to do quite a bit of configuration without editing the file
[10:51] <imcsk8_> sabdf1, nope, you can only configure the printer but not the access
[10:51] <sabdf1> ah
[10:51] <sabdf1> vi then :-)
[10:52] <|QuaD-> daniels: so do you know how i can request those?
[10:53] <daniels> |QuaD-: i don't think we have any real sort of process, no, sorry
[10:53] <|QuaD-> daniels: so if it is debian it just comes to hear, so the key is to get it into debian?
[10:53] <daniels> right
[10:54] <daniels> that's a very good way
[10:54] <|QuaD-> daniels: alright
[10:54] <|QuaD-> y
[10:58] <jdong> so what's going on in here....
[10:58] <imcsk8_> hehehe yeah vi is my configuration tool
[10:58] <jdong> everyone's dead in the other channel :)
[10:58] <jdong> exit
[10:59] <candyman> hi all
[10:59] <candyman> from beautiful barcelona
[10:59] <candyman> just come back from Mataro
[11:02] <sabdf1> |QuaD-: if you can build it, we will review it and if its good it goes straight into universe/multiverse
[11:12] <the_gummibear> is there a way to print to a networkprinter who's not compatible with linux?
[11:12] <the_gummibear> as in (no idea how) faking the fact that your windows or kinda?
[11:13] <OddAbe19> if it has an IP, you can use cups/samba
[11:13] <the_gummibear> it has an ip..
[11:13] <confrey> hi everybody
[11:13] <OddAbe19> then set up the printer with that IP
[11:13] <the_gummibear> but it keeps saying 'invalid data' (as it does not support linux :()
[11:13] <OddAbe19> huh
[11:13] <OddAbe19> beats me, i don't know much about Cupos
[11:13] <OddAbe19> cups*
[11:13] <the_gummibear> (printer says invalid data when i try to send somthing to it)
[11:14] <OddAbe19> just very basic stuff
[11:14] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: what kind of printer?
[11:14] <the_gummibear> okidate C5200n
[11:14] <the_gummibear> *okidata
[11:15] <confrey> I can't use my quantum lct10 in udma4 mode; I tried ' hdparm -X68 /dev/hdd' and 'hdparm -Xudma4 /dev/hdd'; but I always have *udma2 selected; what do I have to do?
[11:15] <the_gummibear> parents forgot to check if it was compatible with linux when they bought it..
[11:17] <scoon> anyone have any trouble importing songs into rhythmbox
[11:18] <Quest-Master> I do scoon.
[11:18] <Quest-Master> Don't use it.
[11:18] <scoon> Quest-Master, so do i
[11:18] <Quest-Master> It does that after a while.
[11:18] <Quest-Master> Use BEEP.
[11:18] <scoon> Quest-Master, i have 20gigs of mp3s but it chokes after about 800 megs
[11:18] <confrey> Quest-Master, what's BEEP?
[11:19] <scoon> does beep handle internet radio ?
[11:19] <scoon> i have used muine in the past but was not that fond of it
[11:19] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: hmmm, looks like there's OS X support (which uses cups) sou you might be able to use the ppd from the OS X driver
[11:19] <Quest-Master> confrey: beep-media-player
[11:20] <Quest-Master> confrey: GTK2 version of XMMS.
[11:20] <confrey> Quest-Master, oh! is there in ubuntu?
[11:20] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: or there's a network add-on for it that you might be able to use as a generic postscript printer
[11:20] <the_gummibear> i'd prolly cheer when i knew more about it, but i'm a little noob :(
[11:21] <the_gummibear> but it doesn't support postscript
[11:21] <Quest-Master> confrey: Yup.
[11:21] <the_gummibear> it's an evil machine..
[11:21] <Quest-Master> confrey: sudo apt-get install beep-media-player
[11:21] <confrey> Quest-Master, thanks
[11:22] <confrey> I can't use my quantum lct10 in udma4 mode; I tried ' hdparm -X68 /dev/hdd' and 'hdparm -Xudma4 /dev/hdd'; but I always have *udma2 selected; what do I have to do?
[11:24] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: I'm going to grab the OS X driver on my powerbook and see if I can find a valid ppd file to use
[11:26] <the_gummibear> that would be nice.. cause it's the only (color)laserprinter in the house..
[11:26] <the_gummibear> so now i need to transfer my files over the network to a filthy windows pc, then run downstairs, (wait till i'm logged in) & then print it :p
[11:26] <the_gummibear> which is a rather long way for a network printer :p
[11:28] <scoon> Quest-Master, so is that a sys-tray plugin for beep or not ?
[11:28] <Quest-Master> If there is a systray plugin for XMMS, you can load it into beep and it should work.
[11:29] <scoon> Quest-Master, so why not just use xmms ?
[11:29] <Quest-Master> scoon: XMMS uses GTK1.x
[11:30] <Quest-Master> scoon: GTK2.x is faster and better-looking.
[11:30] <Ribs> xmms needs to die
[11:30] <Ribs> quickly
[11:30] <scoon> Quest-Master, hmmm.  may NOT be enough reason for me to use it.
[11:30] <Ribs> It's like Napster, refusing to die!
[11:30] <scoon> Ribs, what don't you like about xmms
[11:30] <will_> anyone know a program to view/extract iso, bin etc etc?
[11:30] <scoon> besides the fact that it works
[11:30] <Quest-Master> XMMS is pretty useless compared to beep.
[11:30] <thenuke> is not napster now something which you have to pay for?
[11:31] <thully> Hi - I am the one w/the Flash problems involving gnome sound server in Hoary - would it be OK to report these issues as a bug with priority "enhancement" and note them on the wiki?
[11:31] <thenuke> I would consider that something which have died :)
[11:31] <Ribs> scoon: It's old, there are tools out there which do a better job than XMMS
[11:31] <Fwiffo> will_: You can just mount an iso as a loop-device
[11:31] <scoon> Quest-Master, i am not quite seeing that.  Is there somewhere I can go to get some info, rather than opinions
[11:31] <thenuke> because it is nothing what it has been
[11:31] <Ribs> XMMS in itself isn't a bad program, but it's dated and tired
[11:31] <thully> I think it may be something specific to the combination of 1)my sound card and 2)the latest gnome sound server
[11:31] <scoon> kids don't ever optomize your selfs to death
[11:31] <will_> Fwiffo: its a .bin file in question, how do i do that?
[11:31] <Quest-Master> scoon: XMMS is just an old version of beep.
[11:31] <Ribs> I used it a lot until I found Rythembox
[11:32] <Quest-Master> There is no reason to use XMMS now that beep is here.
[11:32] <scoon> Ribs, well here is a question for you.
[11:32] <farruinn> iTunes in a mol window kicks ass :D
[11:32] <Quest-Master> And oh god, Rhythmbox really screwed up after a few days for me.
[11:32] <scoon> Ribs, do you have problems importing mp3s into rhythmbox
[11:32] <confrey> I can't use my quantum lct10 in udma4 mode; I tried ' hdparm -X68 /dev/hdd' and 'hdparm -Xudma4 /dev/hdd'; but I always have *udma2 selected; what do I have to do?
[11:32] <Ribs> scoon: no
[11:32] <scoon> Ribs, i have 20gigs of mp3s and it just chokes rhythmbox
[11:32] <Ribs> heh, ouch
[11:33] <Ribs> I hardly have any MP3s right now
[11:33] <Ribs> thanks to a HD fuckup
[11:33] <Fwiffo> will_: I'm not very knowledgable on the subject, but i think bin/cue is often the same as iso
[11:33] <scoon> oh
[11:33] <scoon> so i suppose everyone hates zinf as well
[11:33] <Fwiffo> will_: try mounting the .bin as you would a iso
[11:33] <will_> Fwiffo: so how would you go about mounting it?
[11:34] <Ribs> no, you can't mount bins
[11:34] <Ribs> Linux won't have it
[11:35] <Fwiffo> Ribs: I think mostly the bin is the same as an iso -> you can just rename it
[11:35] <will_> Fwiffo: how would you mount an ISO?
[11:35] <Ribs> Fwiffo: no, you can't
[11:35] <Ribs> ISO and bin are two different things
[11:35] <Fwiffo> will_: try googling on it
[11:35] <Ribs> you can use bin2iso to convert a bin into a iso, then mount that
[11:35] <Ribs> it's a handy little tool
[11:36] <scoon> Quest-Master, or Ribs, every used zinf ?
[11:36] <Ribs> Never heard of it
[11:36] <Quest-Master> scoon: Never heard of it
[11:36] <enabl> will_ I just rename .bin to .mpg 99% they are fine
[11:36] <Quest-Master> scoon: What is it?
[11:37] <scoon> Quest-Master, well it is like xmms and beep except it also manages internet radio stations like rhythmbox
[11:37] <Ribs> enabl: you don't need to rename it in most cases
[11:37] <scoon> which i listen to a lot of
[11:37] <Fwiffo> wil It something like: mount -t iso9660 -o loop /path/to/iso /path/to/folder but theres probably a flaw somewhere in my syntax
[11:37] <enabl> Ribs: i do if i want to play it on my dvd player
[11:37] <Ribs> ah :)
[11:38] <Ribs> a .bin is simply a disc image
[11:38] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: wget http://www.tomchuk.com/drop/oki.tar.gz
[11:38] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: and move the ppd.gz to /usr/share/ppd/Okidata
[11:39] <will_> enabl: its a game!
[11:39] <enabl> ah right
[11:39] <will_> im just going to use cdmage in wine to do it :)
[11:39] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: you'll have 2 new printers - DATA 24-Pin and DATA 9-Pin, try each and see if they work
[11:39] <daaku> how do i get the windows key to work as a modifier instead of a normal key in the keyboard shortcuts preferences applet?
[11:39] <Fwiffo> will_: btw i think you have to load the loop module before you can mount an iso
[11:39] <Fwiffo> will_: 'sudo modprobe loop'
[11:39] <the_gummibear> i'll have a look tomchuk :)
[11:39] <the_gummibear> thx
[11:40] <tomchuk> no
[11:40] <tomchuk> *np
[11:42] <scoon> Quest-Master, http://www.zinf.org/
[11:42] <scoon> check it out
[11:43] <hobo> hi there,
[11:43] <calamari> CD Player reads from my hard drive about once per second when idle (I see my HD light blinking).. why?
[11:44] <hobo> could just someone tell me how to get a list of the available multiverse-progz, like the available games...?
[11:45] <tomchuk> hobo - in synaptic, sort by sections and lookin in Games and Amusements (Multiverse)
[11:46] <hobo> ok, and caus i'm a newborn-ubuntuuser, how to get to synaptic?
[11:47] <tomchuk> computer -> system Config -> synaptic
[11:47] <the_gummibear> damnit, still invalid data :(
[11:48] <the_gummibear> guess i'll need to find a way to run a print server on a windows machine or kinda :s
[11:48] <the_gummibear> thx anyway tomchuk :)
[11:48] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: right, click the printer on the windows machine and choose share
[11:49] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: and when you add the printer use a network (samba) printer
[11:49] <dcm> how do I reinstall GLIB?
[11:49] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: but you'll still need a driver for it in linux, and it doesn't sound like generic postscript will work
[11:50] <hobo> tomchuk - thanks, i know i've got a long way to go to ubuntu-heaven.. and, btw, that's the easiest way to get the kde-desktop?
[11:50] <the_gummibear> i can't send my file to a windows machine where it'll be fixed to be printed?
[11:50] <Riddell> hobo: sudo apt-get install kde
[11:50] <dcm> how do I reinstall GLIB?
[11:51] <hobo> riddell: thats it? hell do all the thing of switching from gnome to kde with that one command?
[11:51] <dcm> Excuse me
[11:51] <dcm> how do I reinstall GLIB?
[11:52] <Riddell> hobo: that will install all of KDE, which is quite a lot, you may want to just `sudo apt-get install kdebase kdm kdemultimedia`
[11:52] <Fwiffo> dcm: use synaptic?
[11:52] <dcm> whats that
[11:52] <the_gummibear> the ubuntu package manager
[11:52] <dcm> oh
[11:53] <Riddell> hobo: warty has KDE 3.2, hoary has mostly 3.3
[11:53] <Fwiffo> dcm: as tomchuk said: computer -> system Config -> synaptic
[11:53] <dcm> I was using apt-get and aptitude
[11:53] <dcm> Thanks
[11:53] <tomchuk> dcm: why the need to reinstall glib?
[11:53] <Quest-Master> I think I'm going to have to reinstall my Ubuntu for the third time in less than a month today
[11:53] <dcm> I either don't have it, or it's broken
[11:54] <Quest-Master> And I'm using Warty
[11:54] <dcm> I could not compile xchat 2.4.1
[11:54] <tomchuk> dcm: ah, you need to install libglib2.0-dev
[11:54] <Synek> Quest-Master: why do you want/need to reinstall?
[11:54] <Fwiffo> dcm: why would you need to compile xchat?
[11:54] <dcm> This is 2.0.8, the newest is 2.4.1
[11:55] <Quest-Master> Synek: All of my programs are slowly dying one by one :)
[11:55] <Fwiffo> dcm: ok, any great new features?
[11:55] <hobo> riddell: i got the warty-release, should i update to heary first, or go for kde right away, with options for updating later..?
[11:55] <Quest-Master> Synek: It's almost like Windows all over again
[11:55] <Synek> lol :)
[11:55] <dcm> mm i dunno
[11:55] <Quest-Master> Synek: First Totem, then Beep, CD Player, and finally gEdit and Screem
[11:56] <Synek> hm don't use them, don't know
[11:56] <Quest-Master> I'm really mad. ><
[11:56] <Fwiffo> dcm: why then go through all that trouble :o)
[11:56] <Synek> my fluxbox just going ok, so does mplayer
[11:56] <scoon> Quest-Master, what are you doing to it ?
[11:56] <Quest-Master> scoon: Nothing at all./
[11:56] <Quest-Master> *.
[11:56] <dcm> I like to have the latest of stuff
[11:56] <Synek> Hm, maybe the apps are just longing for your attencion? ;-=)
[11:57] <Synek> attention
[11:57] <Synek> ;)
[11:57] <Quest-Master> I've already given them so much
[11:57] <Quest-Master> ;D
[11:57] <Synek> ;)))
[11:57] <Fwiffo> dcm: ok, ever thought about just upgrading to Hoary then?
[11:57] <the_gummibear> what was the command to mount everything that's possible?
[11:57] <the_gummibear> mount -a ?
[11:57] <Quest-Master> I didn't even upgrade to Hoary and almost all of my daily programs are gone
[11:58] <Fwiffo> dcm: seems more reasonable than installing stuff the other way
[11:58] <dcm> Fwiffo: I didn't know Hoary was out yet, where can I get it?
[11:58] <Synek> dcm: hm, strange way, i assume that new ssh ver is good-to-have, but new ver of xchat gives gou nothing at all, i suppose
[11:58] <tomchuk> the_gummibear: mount -a [-t|-O]  ...     : mount all stuff from /etc/fstab
[11:58] <Fwiffo> dcm: try looking in the wiki, it real easy
[11:58] <the_gummibear> ok, then the online banking is still fooking me :(
[11:59] <Fwiffo> dcm: but its in development so some things may break
[11:59] <Fwiffo> calamari: upgrade CD?


[04:44] <kotux> Hello, is there anyone attending open week tomorrow?
[05:50] <pitti> Good morning
[06:59] <jibel> good morning
[07:17] <Noskcaj> jibel, add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre please
[07:20] <Noskcaj> elfy, please add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre
[07:21] <Noskcaj> everyone else, also add yourself to that page
[07:21] <elfy> what is it with youngsters handing out instructions - smartboyhw's good at that as well :)
[07:36] <Noskcaj> elfy, :) it was one of two work items i have this cycle.
[07:36]  * elfy puts on evil head then :)
[07:36] <Noskcaj> ?
[07:37]  * elfy refuses to do it so you don't finish your work items :p
[07:37] <elfy> who's giving you work items anyway?
[07:39] <Noskcaj> elfy, it appeared on the wiki, that and run a testdrive hackfest. this is what i get for living in australia (read: crappy timezone)
[07:39] <Noskcaj> so i assume balloons
[07:39] <elfy> lol
[07:39] <elfy> wonder what team it was that balloons thought he could give you things to do in
[07:40] <elfy> cos it's not Xubuntu - I have a huge list of things for you to do with regard to that :p
[07:42] <Noskcaj> elfy, it was the QA team, and i'm scared now.
[07:42] <elfy> :)
[07:43] <elfy> don't be - I'm not as bad as phillw would say I am :D
[07:44] <Noskcaj> he's not said anything about you yet, the only person who's spoken about people in xubuntu badly is ali, and only because they ignored him completely
[07:44] <Noskcaj> what is on the list of stuff for me to do?
[07:44] <Noskcaj> i only have 5 things to do so far
[07:45] <elfy> nothing yet :)
[07:47] <Noskcaj> my list 1. and 2. what balloons said, 3. testdrive classroom session, 4. get the anti-australia bugs fixed 5. i've already forgotten this one
[07:47] <elfy> :)
[07:48] <elfy> Noskcaj: added that elfy guy to the wiki
[07:49] <Noskcaj> yay
[07:49] <Noskcaj> now to get jibel, pitti, wxl and anyone else who i don't know
[07:50] <Noskcaj> i have to go to air force cadets now, bye
[07:50] <elfy> cya have a good time
[08:01] <xnox> balloons: am around now...
[09:45] <jibel> pitti, are you subscribed to autopkgtest-devel?
[09:45] <jibel> the mailing list I mean
[10:08] <pitti> jibel: no, I'm not
[10:09] <pitti> jibel: actually, you mean the debian list? I'm there, yes
[10:09] <jibel> pitti, I CCed you
[10:10] <pitti> jibel: yeah, I got your CC and the ML post
[10:11] <jibel> pitti, i am not subscribed to the list as it is almost only spam
[14:01] <balloons> gl phillw
[14:02] <balloons> xnox, ahh if your still about, I was wondering if you had merged the changes needed to have autopilot be able to introspect ubiquity yet or not?
[14:02] <xnox> balloons: not yet. first day back.
[14:03] <balloons> xnox, I figured since I didn't hear from you until now :-)
[14:03] <balloons> welcome back. Hope you had some nice time off
[14:06] <xnox> yeah, it was good.
[15:12] <kotux> Hey phillw
[15:12] <phillw> hi kotux
[15:13] <kotux> I finally had the chance to install lubuntu via alternate iso on my netbook
[15:13] <kotux> Just at the installation (i'm not done yet), I'm at the Software Selection screen
[15:14] <phillw> nice :)
[15:14] <kotux> As a prospective tester, I am not sure what are the essential software to install.
[15:15] <kotux> For instance, is all the server stuff - Basic Ubuntu server, OpenSSH server, DNS server, etc. - necessary for the end-user/tester?
[15:15] <phillw> nothing needed as of install. when it is up and running, you can have a look at using test-drive there has been a classroom session on it last cycle, but there have been some further updates and some of the classroom-sessions will be run / re-run to reflect those changes.
[15:16] <phillw> the defaults selected are all needed for running the desktop system.
[15:17] <kotux> There was nothing selected really, just all empty check boxes.  I ended up pressing enter to continue with the installation process. :/
[15:19] <kotux> phillw, btw, I liked the minimal installer.  The installation so far has been going smoothly.
[15:21] <phillw> kotux: I use the alternate all the time. It gets it tested, as most people will use the desktop version :)
[15:22] <kotux> nice, I'll probably do the same.
[15:23] <kotux> Ok, my netbook screen went blank, and I'm guessing the installation is done. Is this supposed to happen? Would it be safe to restart the computer now?
[15:28] <phillw> hmm, what was the last thing on the screen before it went black?
[15:30] <elfy> you sure it's not a screensaver
[15:30] <kotux> nope, i was in the middle of an alternate install
[15:31] <phillw> kotux: where had it gotten to?
[15:31] <kotux> I restarted it, and it showed two error messages, that my swap partitions weren't found.  I believe the installation failed at the last minute.
[15:32] <kotux> Right now, my computer is hanging at the loading screen. :-(
[15:33] <phillw> kotux: try CTRL + ALT + F1 see if that gives you a terminal
[15:35] <kotux> It gives me a blinking cursor without my username@hostname
[15:35] <kotux> The following error messages are: "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/kimtux--vg-swap_1 is not ready yet or not present."
[15:36] <phillw> hmm, seems the install died. did you ask for LVM creation?
[15:36] <kotux>  "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present.
[15:36] <kotux> yes
[15:36] <kotux> How did it die? :)
[15:37] <phillw> idk, did you use the self-check on the install iso?
[15:38] <kotux> self-check?
[15:38] <phillw> when you boot with the installer, it gives an option to self check.
[15:39] <phillw> this ensures the install media does not have a corruption on it.
[15:40]  * kotux is self-checking
[15:41] <kotux> There was a defect after all: ./install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/pxelinux.cfg default file failed the MD5 checksum verification
[15:41] <phillw> it's always wise to run the self check before installing. just one tiny file corruption can leave you with a (very) poorly system.
[15:41] <kotux> good thing it didn't finish either.
[15:42] <phillw> yup, that corruption is in the installer system and most likely why it died part way through.
[15:43] <phillw> before you re-create the installer media, do an md5checksum on the iso you downloaded to check it is not corrupt.
[15:44] <phillw> the md5's are listed at http://phillw.net/isos/lubuntu/raring/release/MD5SUMS (it's the one I remember in my head).
[15:44] <phillw> but will also be on where you got the iso from
[15:45] <kotux> So how exactly do I do a md5checksum?
[15:45] <phillw> kotux: is the iso on a *buntu machine?
[15:46] <kotux> yes
[15:46] <phillw> start a terminal session, and cd to the directory the iso is in
[15:47] <phillw> if do an
[15:47] <phillw> ls *iso
[15:47] <phillw> it should list the file for you.
[15:47] <phillw> *if you do*
[15:50] <kotux> yeah
[15:50] <phillw> md5sum *iso
[15:51] <phillw> that will generate the md5 checksum which MUST match the one in the table
[15:51] <kotux> ok
[15:52] <kotux> if the file was corrupted, would the md5sum still match the table's?
[15:52] <phillw> if they do not match, you will need to re-download. If there is a corruption the md5sum will NOT match the table :)
[15:52] <kotux> wow, that's neat
[15:57] <kotux> whoa, I need to get something straight;  I believe lubuntu's testing effort is on Ubuntu 13.10.
[15:58] <phillw> kotux: indeed, but at this stage, it is usual to test on  a virtual machine running on 13.04 :)
[15:58] <kotux> 13.04  *buntu?
[15:59] <phillw> the improvements made to testdrive make this easy for someone new to the world of testing, Yes, you can test any *buntu on any *buntu. We are all the same family :)
[16:02] <kotux> Surely, my Acer One on Intel Atom processor on Lubuntu can handle that!
[16:03] <phillw> it is one of the reasons I like lubuntu. It leaves enough resources for me to run virtual machines :)
[16:05] <kotux> Awesome
[16:06]  * kotux now will take a break by eating breakfast
[16:06] <phillw> and watch Nicholas's presentation :)
[16:07] <kotux> yeah
[16:07] <SergioMeneses> phillw, kotux take sit
[16:52] <melodie> hi
[16:57] <balloons> hello melodie
[16:57] <balloons> morning kotux
[16:57] <balloons> I think I'll have some food myself :-)
[16:58] <balloons> all this breakfest talk and typing works up the appetite
[16:59] <kotux> great session balloons
[16:59] <melodie> hi balloons
[17:00] <melodie> It would be difficult for me to get involved deeply here, but I would enjoy a discussion about eventual tests related to jobsadmin and the gtk app which goes along with it
[17:02] <balloons> jobsadmin.. hmm, I hadn't heard of it befor
[17:03] <balloons> melodie, are you involved in the project?
[17:04] <melodie> I am involved in another project : creating a very easy to go Ubuntu Openbox Remix, and the jobsadmin tool can't be used with efficiency, and as it's the only tool which misses quality I feel frustrated
[17:04] <balloons> thanks kotux I hope it was a helpful overview. Everytime I do something like that I always want to run to the wiki to make sure everything I said is laid out just as clear in there :-)
[17:04] <melodie> balloons I'll seek for the page of bug reports related to it and show you
[17:05] <melodie> If you are ok with that of course
[17:05] <balloons> hmm.. is it still actively developed?
[17:05] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/jobsadmin
[17:05] <melodie> it is available in the latest repos at least
[17:05] <melodie> and we do need a tool which allows us to manage comfortably the processes
[17:05] <melodie> let's put it this way:
[17:06] <melodie> Ubuntu is the distribution used by mostly average users, not only end users, and average users don't like to ramble into the docs to send some cryptic commands to the console, in order to create some "override" files, for processes they don't want to be started while booting
[17:06] <melodie> example:
[17:07] <melodie> I use printing once a while, and would like to be able to start it on the fly, but at times in the year I'll use it each day. so what I need is a gui tool easy to go to change the setup whenever I need. same for bluetooth, samba, whatever.
[17:08] <melodie> jobs admin is there for that purpose: however it does not work in a way which allows performing these operations.
[17:08] <melodie> in fact it's useless, which is a great pita
[17:08] <melodie> or pity... now sure how to say it
[17:11] <balloons> melodie, hmm.., Well, I'm unsure of why you would want to be changing the setup in that way
[17:12] <balloons> however upstart allows you to stop and start things, even applications now
[17:12] <balloons> that might be what your after
[17:14] <balloons> as far as jobsadmin and the issues your mentioning. If they are filed as bugs, the next step is for a developer to fix them.. then from a QA perspective you can iterate and test the fixes
[17:15] <melodie> balloons that is interesting
[17:15] <kotux> hey balloons, I have a netbook that I can dedicate as a lubuntu machine.  Do you recommend I testdrive the daily iso or dogfood it?  Either way I'm fine.
[17:15] <balloons> melodie, this may help explain a bit on your issue: http://askubuntu.com/questions/19320/whats-the-recommended-way-to-enable-disable-services
[17:15] <melodie> I finish a mail to someone and after I'll go check how the bug reports have moved forward or not moved at all
[17:16] <melodie> balloons no that does not help
[17:16] <balloons> ok ;-0
[17:16] <balloons> but here's the upstart link:
[17:16] <balloons> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[17:16] <melodie> we need an efficient tool, such as the one in Archlinux or in Fedora and co : something which allows dealing with services with one or two clicks after the root password is provided
[17:17] <balloons> kotux, both :-) hehe
[17:17] <balloons> I would grab a daily, install it and then dogfood
[17:17] <melodie> and this tool should manage upstart jobs as well as the classic init jobs still used for the time being
[17:17] <balloons> at some point you may wipe and re-install from a milestone image
[17:20] <kotux> balloons, that would mean I need backup skills
[17:21] <balloons> kotux, ahh.. if the machine isn't purely a testing machine, then yea, just dogfood :-)
[17:21] <balloons> upgrade and have at it
[17:21] <balloons> you can participate in all the new package testing that way too
[17:23] <phillw> kotux: one way to enable a part of this is to have a seperate /home partition. It is not a full guarantee, but if a test install borks completely you can use the manual format and mark it to be used as /home but mark it as NOT to be formatted ;)
[17:24] <balloons> melodie, well again, I don't really get why your wanting to change services around, etc. However, if you don't want to use upstart, there are other tools
[17:24] <phillw> this was what I did when I borked my production machine after getting a bit carried away with tasksel (the software selector window you saw during your alternate install)
[17:25] <melodie> balloons upstart rules most of the jobs, so I don't think it is an option
 melodie, well again, I don't really get why your wanting to change services around, etc.
[17:25] <melodie> to spare resources
[17:25] <melodie> this is obvious if you have machines which age is bigger than... let's say, three of four years
[17:26] <balloons> melodie, anyways; http://superuser.com/questions/566248/services-manager-for-debian-to-change-whether-a-service-starts-onboot-or-not-my
[17:26] <melodie> having all services running when only a few are needed currently is a waste for the cpu and ram
[17:26] <kotux> How exactly do I create a separate home partition?  I have the alternate-install for entire disk.
[17:26] <kotux> phillw
[17:27] <balloons> melodie, I've run minimal installs.. I typically don't have any services running if it's that much a matter of life and death -- they aren't installed
[17:27] <phillw> kotux: fyi, it is feeding time here. I will reply to any posts after it. Setting up a /home needs a bit of pen, paper and basic maths to work out the best partitioning table for you.
[17:27] <balloons> the basic gnome services gui and bum I've seen and heard of before.. you can view the rest..
[17:27] <phillw> I'll be back in ~30 mins
[17:27] <kotux> k
[17:28] <balloons> kotux, yes a seperate home is nice, and I certainly advocate and use it. However if you don't seperate it out, ubiquity shouldn't wipe it out on a re-install
[17:28] <melodie> balloons : they aren't installed // this is not the option which fits best the needs of most people
[17:29] <kotux> balloons: i'm using alternate-install.
[17:30] <balloons> melodie, :-) I wish you the best. If your an advanced user you have many options. If your not it can be hard. I would advocate setting up a system that doesn't require that much knowledge burden on the user. But I wish you luck. It's not an easy problem
[17:33] <balloons> The post I linked contains all the suggestions I would have and then some. But I would caution you if you even need to the tool at all, as it sounds like your audience is non-technical. What's the name of your remix?
[17:38] <melodie> balloons Ubuntu Openbox Remix : code name Bento2
[17:39] <melodie> the presentation is unavailable right now, but will be again within a few days
[17:39] <melodie> all I can point to now is a few screenshots and the download space
[17:43] <melodie> balloons here are all the reports about bugs in jobs-admin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=jobs-admin&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.importance%3Alist=UNDECIDED&field.assignee=&field.bug_repor
[17:43] <melodie> ter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[17:44] <melodie> humm long url... :s
[17:44] <melodie> here is one where I added my own feedback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/jobsadmin/+bug/917738
[17:46] <melodie> the guy who had done a new version fixing some bugs lost his webspace and never uploaded anew
[17:46] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/jobsadmin/+bug/705158/comments/12
[18:03] <phillw> hmm, now where'd he go? :D
[18:07] <balloons> lunch :-)
[18:10] <phillw> balloons: not you, but when you get back. Is there a central area that you can view both the video, irc and etherpad per session or is it now three links that need to be given?
[18:11] <balloons> phillw, the summit links are good..However, the pad is migrated to the blueprint whiteboard, so it isn't needed
[18:11] <balloons> I guess the answer is link to each summit.u.c page
[18:18] <balloons> melodie, I see the links. If there is no developer for jobsadmin, it's unsupported, and I wouldn't plan your remix around having the tool since it's buggy
[18:19] <balloons> basing off what you told me :-)
[18:19] <melodie> balloons for the time being this is how you say, however for the future, I think it would be good to spread the word about that tool and have the devs consider working on it
[18:34] <balloons> phillw, so I want to send something around about the classroom sessions today too
[18:44] <phillw> balloons: could you re-run the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10#Section_1 one on test cases? things have moved on a lot... possibly split it into bite size chunks for manual test cases / auto-pilot as classrooms or hackfests with introductions?
[18:44] <balloons> phillw, I wanted to have something to post to the mailing list that's a bit sane..
[18:44] <balloons> so people can signup for sessions, etc.. Can we just post a blank template for 13.10 and have folks fill in?
[18:45] <balloons> we can let them reference the old 13.04 session
[18:45] <balloons> hello DanChapman
[18:45] <balloons> as far as what I'll host.. Umm, I'd like to fill in I think and help people with there sessions
[18:46] <balloons> and I'll take what's leftover if there's something we feel needs attention and no one signed up. how's that sound?
[18:47] <DanChapman> Hey folks
[18:49] <balloons> DanChapman, I got your email. I'll send something along to you later. But feel free to ping me anytime :-)
[18:50] <balloons> If you missed this session I held this morning, look at the log. It should give you some nice background on the team and what's out there for you if you need it
[18:50] <phillw> balloons: I'm okay with the ones allocated to me on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 and also okay to be around with you when smartboyhw runs the 3.1 classroom. But the section 1 could do with being split, a lot happened last cycle :D
[18:50] <balloons> I trust your judgment :-) Mock up the page and I'll prep the mail to the list
[18:51] <DanChapman> balloons: ok that would be great, thanks. Im just reading through the log as we speak. I forgot the session was on. :(
[18:51] <balloons> DanChapman, it's planning time :-) Trying to plan classroom sessions, hackfests, and cadence testing :-)
[18:51] <balloons> hey, no worries.. we're always here, so fire away any questions you have
[18:54] <phillw> balloons: give me 90 mins... the only television programme i REALLY like is about to start (Stargate SG1) :D
[18:54] <balloons> phillw, hehe.. enough said. Enjoy yourself :-)
[19:33] <balloons> afternoon Letozaf_
[19:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hi :D
[19:34] <balloons> Letozaf_, will the hackfest date work for you this week?
[19:34] <balloons> I know your dying to dig in :-)
[19:34]  * Letozaf_ is checking
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah you're right
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, I can dig in not from the beginning but I can be there
[19:36] <balloons> Letozaf_, excellent :-) Yea, you don't have to be there the WHOLE time :-p
[19:36] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D
[19:40] <DanChapman> i'll get in on a hackfest :D , what date are you thinking? so i can pencil it in
[19:41] <balloons> DanChapman, sent a mail to the list with the details (I hope!) ;-)
[19:41] <balloons> but it's this thursday for the first one
[19:41] <balloons> the one on june 4th and june 13th
[19:41] <balloons> *then
[19:43] <DanChapman> balloons: ok great :D. The list hasn't got round to me yet then :(. But will jot them down
[19:44] <balloons> Letozaf_, phillw, DanChapman Is this understandable to you? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy
[19:44] <balloons> for reference here's the one from last cycle: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring
[19:44]  * Letozaf_ is reading
[19:45] <balloons> I'm mainly concerned with the schedule at the bottom :-) Does it look sane?
[19:45] <balloons> or is there too much detail from the release schedule on it
[19:46] <Letozaf_> balloons, for me it's clear and looks sane :D
[19:46] <balloons> DanChapman, here's the full details :-) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-May/003732.html
[19:47] <DanChapman> balloons, looks clear to me.
[19:47] <DanChapman> thanks
[19:47] <balloons> Letozaf_, DanChapman wow.. ok, I guess I'll leave it be
[19:47] <balloons> I kind of liked the old one better, but we shall see.
[19:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think it even better than the Raring one
[19:47] <balloons> :-p
[19:47] <balloons> good.. it's for you all, not me!
[19:48] <Letozaf_> balloons, :P sure!
[19:48] <balloons> I mean I use to also, but both make sense to me, so :-)
[20:09] <balloons> Letozaf, I've got one more thing for you to look at it you've got a moment
[20:09] <Letozaf> balloons, sure,
[20:10] <Letozaf> balloons, had a problem with my PC  :p
[20:11] <balloons> :-p
[20:11] <balloons> so, remember the cadence testing idea that was presented during vUDS?
[20:11] <balloons> basically to follow all the packages we care about all cycle and push new builds for them as they are created?
[20:12] <Letozaf> balloons, yes more or less :p
[20:12] <balloons> ok, so I've mocked up 2 examples of it
[20:12] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/builds
[20:13]  * Letozaf is reading
[20:13] <balloons> and
[20:13] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds
[20:14] <balloons> Letozaf, basically if you look it's showing the 2 ways we can do it
[20:14] <balloons> have a milestone for each package, or lump them all together into one milestone(s)
[20:14] <balloons> the "magic" then is here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/history
[20:14] <balloons> and here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/history
[20:15] <balloons> essentially you can follow along with the old results and bug reports, etc
[20:15] <balloons> so everytime a new version hits the archive you can see test results for it
[20:15] <balloons> in addition, you could subscribe to your favorite packages and be notified about new versions (and test them :-) )
[20:16] <phillw> balloons: does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 look sane to you? The new ones and ones that have to be re-run are reset, you can ask if others want to re-run the classrooms from 13.04 with updates.
[20:16] <balloons> that's the basic idea.. so I mocked this up quickly, I trust it makes a little sense. I'd like to share it with everyone soon and see what they think of it, in comparision to the traditional way we did cadence testing last cycle
[20:17] <Letozaf> balloons, that maybe having a milestone for each package looks "more neat" and understandable to the "lumped all together one"
[20:18] <balloons> phillw, if you want to have a look as well, I'd be happy to hear your feedback, see the scrollback
[20:18]  * balloons is looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10
[20:18] <Letozaf> balloons,  its easier to see previous bugs and results for the package
[20:18] <balloons> Letozaf, ok, so you like each package being it's own milestone so you just get it's history
[20:18] <balloons> kk.. I think so too
[20:18] <Letozaf> balloons, yes!
[20:19] <Letozaf> balloons, very nice, good job :D
[20:19] <phillw> balloons: I've got 3 hours, I hope others will step up to mark and allocate time for the other areas :)
[20:19] <balloons> phillw, looks good.. uou need to edit out the old day and times though :)
[20:20] <phillw> balloons: ah, 3.5 hours!
[20:20] <phillw> balloons: the lesson on, say, zsync is still valid. I can re-run it if that is desired.
[20:21] <balloons> right.. I would leave it all up and we'll see the feedback we get
[20:21] <balloons> just wipe the days and times from it
[20:21] <balloons> Letozaf, so overall as an idea do you think this would be useful in comparison to how cadence testing was done last time?
[20:21] <phillw> balloons: by my bad maths - that is about 12 hours of classrooms to be held!
[20:21] <balloons> phillw, nice!
[20:22] <balloons> It's exciting to see everyone step up and pitch in.. i like the student becoming the teacher.. so we'll round up some of last cycle's students :-)
[20:22] <balloons> hehe
[20:22] <phillw> I'll remove the old links, as long as we still reference to them so that what can be re-used is :D
[20:22] <balloons> phillw, let's copy the classroom page as-is to a /raring version
[20:23] <balloons> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring
[20:23] <balloons> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
[20:23] <balloons> for the final page names..
[20:23] <balloons> we'll convert https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom to a landing page
[20:23] <balloons> :-)
[20:24] <Letozaf> balloons, yes I think it would be very useful
[20:24] <balloons> phillw, I used raring and saucy because we use that elsewhere instead of the numeric equivalent.. precedence, heh
[20:24] <Letozaf> balloons, you've got all the bugs there so you can go an see what happened previously
[20:25] <Letozaf> Letozaf, and maybe avoid duplicate ones :p
[20:25] <balloons> yes, I know you don't like dupes :-)
[20:25] <balloons> me netheir!
[20:25] <Letozaf> balloons, :p
[20:27] <balloons> Letozaf, so have you met Vasudevan? He's been hacking on the autopilot tests.. And DanChampman who left just a bit ago too
[20:27] <balloons> you should have some company for hacking :-)
[20:28] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 better?
[20:28] <balloons> Vasudevan, meet Letozaf another contributor to the autopilot testcases
[20:28] <Vasudevan> hi
[20:28] <Letozaf> balloons, I've been "reading" a bit what they were doing but did not "introduce" myself :p
[20:28] <Vasudevan> still getting to know autopliot
[20:29] <Letozaf> Vasudevan, hi
[20:29] <balloons> phillw, good enough for me.. I can rename the page and send it round the list to see what happens
[20:29] <phillw> balloons: as soon as your happy with the 13.10 setup, I'll rename them both :)
[20:29] <balloons> thanks for your help in prepping this
[20:29] <Letozaf> Vasudevan, welcome hope you have fun hacking autopilot
[20:29] <balloons> phillw, ahh.. I did make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring
[20:29] <Vasudevan> Letozaf, thanks
[20:30] <balloons> so Vasudevan this channel is sometimes busy / sometimes quiet, depending on who's awake :-) But feel free to hangout here and ask questions, etc...
[20:30] <phillw> balloons: that's fine, I can just rename the 13.10 one as Saucy :D
[20:31] <balloons> you'll meet some people who work on all sorts of different stuff in ubuntu-quality
[20:31] <balloons> phillw, perfect :-)
, thanks, when I "joined" this channel, I lost the autopilot window in my browser - how come?
[20:32] <balloons> Vasudevan, ohh, that's not good ;-( Are you on a webclient?
[20:32] <Vasudevan> balloons, I am using firefox
[20:32] <balloons> I see your still in the #ubuntu-autopilot channel :-)
[20:32] <balloons> Vasudevan, so you went to this address? http://webchat.freenode.net/
[20:32] <Vasudevan> balloons, I can see only the quality channel
[20:33] <phillw> I'll keep the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom and amend it to simply point to the two new pages. That way, if people have it bookmarked they will not get a 404 error (which is seriously frowned upon :P )
[20:33] <balloons> phillw, yes, make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom a landing page. And we'll want to link to it from the activities page as well
[20:33] <Vasudevan> balloons,  thats right.
[20:33] <balloons> if you can manage that
[20:34] <balloons> Vasudevan, so it looks like if you look at the top of your screen it should show 3 tabs
[20:34] <balloons> on the webpage itself, not firefox tabs :-)
[20:35] <balloons> one should say status, one #ubuntu-quality and one #ubuntu-autopilot
[20:35] <balloons> click the tabs to move between the chats
[20:35] <Vasudevan> balloons, got it, I can see autopliot tab and switch to it
[20:35] <balloons> if there is a pending message it should glow blue
[20:35] <balloons> Vasudevan, :-)
[20:36] <balloons> Vasudevan, I'll try not to confuse you but you can also use a desktop client to connect if you wish.. I'll just leave this link here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/8015/what-irc-clients-are-available
[20:37] <Vasudevan> balloons, sure I will get one of these for better visibility
[20:37] <Letozaf> balloons, #ubuntu-autopilot is not in the logs here: irclogs.ubuntu.com
[20:38] <balloons> I use xchat.. but like everything people have there own preferences
[20:38] <balloons> Letozaf, ohh.. good catch!
[20:38] <thomi> Letozaf: there's a ticket open to adress that
[20:38] <Letozaf> thomi, oh! fine :p
[20:38] <balloons> thomi, :-) I was going to rub it in
[20:38] <Letozaf> balloons, :p
[20:38] <balloons> you beat me to it1
[20:38] <thomi> too late!
[20:38] <balloons> morning Noskcaj
[20:39] <Noskcaj> morning balloons
[20:39] <balloons> Vasudevan, this might also help you get to know everyone on IRC.. many people have there stuff in there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre
[20:40] <balloons> Noskcaj, so we're doing lots of scheduling for the upcoming cycle today
[20:40] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:40] <Vasudevan> balloons, thanks, bookmarked it.
[20:44] <elfy> evening balloons
[20:44] <balloons> good evening elfy
[20:45] <balloons> so Noskcaj and elfy want to give some feedback on the cadence testing changes I put together
[20:45] <Noskcaj> changes? where?
[20:45] <balloons> I'm not sure if etheir of you were around for the session we had @ vUDS talking about changing cadence testing to be a bit different
[20:46] <Noskcaj> nope
[20:46] <elfy> not that I remember
[20:46] <balloons> k..
[20:46] <balloons> the idea was to basically to follow all the packages we care about all cycle and push new builds for them as they are created
[20:47] <elfy> and as I was missing last cycle there'd be no change
[20:47] <balloons> so in effect you could track a package all cycle long and see it's old test results and bugs, etc
[20:47] <balloons> ok, so I've mocked up 2 examples of it
[20:47] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/builds and http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds
[20:47] <elfy> ok
[20:47] <balloons> it's showing the 2 ways we can do it; have a milestone for each package, or lump them all together into one milestone(s)
[20:47] <elfy> looking
[20:48] <balloons> if you look essentially you can follow along with the old results and bug reports, etc: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/history and here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/history
[20:48] <balloons> in addition, you could subscribe to your favorite packages and be notified about new versions (and test them :-) )
[20:48] <elfy> cool
[20:48] <balloons> so all that said, which way do you prefer? Having everything all lumped in as one milestone, or the 2nd way and having each package be it's own milestone?
[20:48] <elfy> that sounds extraordinarily useful
[20:49] <elfy> well ...
[20:49] <balloons> excellent.. It was proposed by smartboyhw and someone else during the event, so I promised to mock it up
[20:50] <elfy> so there 'could' be one of these for packages 'we' care about ?
[20:50] <balloons> so yea.. the question is should we pursue this a opposed to how we tested last cycle.. and which way do you prefer
[20:50] <elfy> for instance I'd have little interest in unity but loads in xfce4 for example
[20:51] <balloons> elfy, yes, the idea is to make these for stuff 'we' care about
[20:51] <elfy> k - makes sense, but I've not got the looking backward thing :)
[20:51] <balloons> elfy, heh.. yes, understood :-)
[20:52] <balloons> here's what we did in the past quickly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring. Basically linked out to the tracker and tested specific packages/hw/whatev's
[20:52] <elfy> so basically we could have 'a' package and be able to follow it from now till 6 months and watch bugs etc
[20:52] <elfy> or
[20:52] <elfy> a general overview type affair ?
[20:52] <balloons> each week we changed up what we focused on
[20:52] <balloons> elfy, yes you could watch a package all cycle
[20:53] <balloons> every build would have an entry and any test results that were entered for it, along with the list of bugs
[20:53] <elfy> right - I can go for that I think :)
[20:53] <Noskcaj> i prefer general overview, and can we add testdrive to the list or not?
[20:54] <balloons> elfy, the difference between the two is one lumps all the stuff we care about into 1 milestone.. the other would seperate out every package
[20:54] <balloons> I suppose we could do both.. lump some together, and others seperate too
[20:55] <balloons> Noskcaj, yes, we could watch testdrive
[20:55] <Noskcaj> :)
[20:55] <balloons> the stuff we want to watch needs to be discussed
[20:55] <elfy> yep
[20:56] <elfy> balloons: 2 secs - need to sort out a question here and I'm tired ...
[20:57] <elfy> balloons: would this be instead of http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/44701/testcases for instance - or and expansion of that or something completely different
[20:58] <balloons> elfy, in addition to the image testing
[20:58] <phillw> balloons: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom okay? (Crikey, you're popular to-night... new after-shave? :P )
[20:58] <elfy> ok
[20:58] <balloons> so here, have a look: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/
[20:58] <balloons> that's the packages tracker.. you can see how last cycle went more or less
[20:58] <balloons> see the cadence week milestones.. each with a different scope of tests to run, etc?
[20:59] <elfy> ohhhh - so this is about the cadence testing stuff only
[20:59] <balloons> phillw, :-p I like a nice buzzing channel!
[20:59] <balloons> elfy, yes, this was a suggestion to change how we did cadence testing
[20:59] <elfy> balloons: right - yea - I'd prefer detail for specific things I think personally
[21:00] <balloons> ok, so you like the milestone for each package you care about..
[21:00] <balloons> and track it all cycle
[21:00] <elfy> yea I think so - I'd need to talk to the boss, but right here and now I'd prefer that
[21:00] <balloons> for our purposes of cadence testing then, the cadence week becomes about hitting the list of packages and running through them if they are untested
[21:01] <balloons> but everyone is of course welcome to report results anytime.. the point is the milestone will always be open
[21:01] <balloons> not limited to one week snapshots like last cycle
[21:01] <elfy> k
[21:01] <balloons> so for xubuntu.. yea, you can leverage this in any way you wish :-)
[21:02] <elfy> balloons: so - if there's package X and we want to test it -we could in effect do it for 6 months if necessary and not worry about only having a week?
[21:02] <balloons> phillw, yes, I like the page..
[21:02] <balloons> thanks!
[21:02] <balloons> btw, you can hotlink to times on those pages
[21:02] <balloons> so instead of http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html you can use http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t16:01
[21:02] <balloons> and go right to my session :-)
[21:03] <elfy> balloons: if that's the case then it  would help I think as we tend to not get huge numbers of people testing things
[21:03] <balloons> elfy, yes.. you could test at any point over the cycle.. and have all the results collated in that one spot
[21:03] <phillw> balloons: thanks, I did just ask on -backroom as I knew it was possible :D
[21:03] <balloons> the times on the right are linkable
[21:04] <balloons> nice little anchor tags :-)
[21:04] <elfy> balloons: ok - that makes sense to me and enough to be able to explain it as well :)
[21:04] <balloons> elfy, great
[21:04] <elfy> I can see that being useful given the testing user numbers we usually attract
[21:05] <balloons> wonderful.. so it sounds like everyone likes the idea.. we'll see what the mailing list has to say
[21:05] <balloons> just thought I would pick the brains of those who were live on IRC first
[21:05] <elfy> balloons: so there's be the normal image testing and this detailed stuff as well
[21:05] <balloons> Noskcaj, you are also for the idea right?
[21:05] <Noskcaj> yep
[21:05] <balloons> elfy, yes.. the normal image testing carries on as normla
[21:05] <elfy> balloons: more lucking picking a cockle than my brain ...
[21:06] <balloons> for ubuntu, we'll test during cadence weeks, targetting the dailies
[21:06] <balloons> flavors are free to arrange it however.. and we all test during milestones :-)
[21:06] <elfy> yep
[21:07] <elfy> so all Noskcaj and I need to do is decide which packages we need to concentrate on for xubuntu
[21:07] <elfy> specifically that is
[21:08] <Noskcaj> elfy, ok. let's see what everyone else on#xubuntu-devel wants
[21:09] <elfy> yep - I'll write a mail tonight/tomorrow explaining this and ask for packages
[21:09] <elfy> maybe send it to you so you can have a look first
[21:10] <Noskcaj> ok, sounds good
[21:11] <elfy> Noskcaj: so what's your time now? about 7am ish
[21:11] <Noskcaj> yep
[21:12] <elfy> k - so wwe're about 9 hours apart - useful to know
[21:37] <elfy> balloons: I knew I'd have a question just before I needed to hit the sack ... could we not have http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds for all (as an example) xubuntu packages we wanted to follow and then be able to drill down to http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds for the detail ?
[21:37] <elfy> or is that what's anticipated and I got the wrong end of the stick when I started thinking about it again lol
[21:37] <balloons> elfy, your free to arrange it however you wish
[21:38] <elfy> ok - so we could do that ^^
[21:38] <balloons> if you lump them into one milestone you get the good and bad that brings :-)
[21:38] <balloons> if you make them seperate, it's the same thing :-)
[21:38] <balloons> I think the answer is going to lie in the middle perhaps, depending on how many packages you track
[21:38] <elfy> :)
[21:38] <elfy> ok thanks
[21:38] <balloons> make a couple milestones and track a bunch of stuff in each
[21:39] <elfy> but a milestone could last for 6 months if we wanted that?
[21:39] <elfy> or is that too much :p
[21:39] <elfy> I can see a case for short term ones for easier things and long term ones for the bigger fish
[21:40]  * elfy is probably overthinking it now lol
[21:40] <knome> you are! :P
[21:40] <elfy> knome: I thought so - it's too late lol
[21:42] <phillw> wb knome, I hope you had an enjoyable couple of days off?
[21:42] <balloons> elfy, milestone length can be whatever you wish
[21:42] <knome> yes and no - have been feeling a bit sick today
[21:42] <elfy> balloons: thanks
[21:42] <phillw> knome: :/
[21:42] <balloons> the idea behind this we in ubuntu qa are debating is having one that last for 6 months :-)
[21:43]  * balloons waves to knome
[21:43] <knome> heya balloons
[21:43] <knome> :)
[21:43] <knome> balloons, if i add elfy to xubuntu-release, will he get all the testsuite/-case tweaking permissions as well?
[21:44] <balloons> knome, yes
[21:44] <phillw> balloons: I take it that the milestone will run ~ 1- 2 weeks after final release so as to accomodate the 'zero day' bugs?
[21:44] <balloons> he'll have authority to manage releases for xubuntu
[21:44] <knome> balloons, i know *that* :)
[21:44] <balloons> so marking builds, test, suites, etc, etc
[21:44] <balloons> lol.. just warning you..
[21:44] <knome> marking, but what about managing them?
[21:44] <balloons> you know that elfy guy :-p
[21:44] <elfy> :p
[21:45] <knome> well i nominated him myself...
[21:45] <balloons> phillw, that's an excellent point
[21:45] <balloons> not a bad idea
[21:45] <balloons> I'm mailing the post now.. add it to the feedback for everyone to see :-)
[21:46] <phillw> balloons: okies, btw Noskcaj is happy to re-run the classroom session allocate to him. If only because testdrive now is more functional (can use the new Vbox etc.)
[21:47] <Noskcaj> phillw, we need to get parallels fixed or out by then though
[21:48] <phillw> Noskcaj: you wok with what you have, for others you issue clear work-arounds ... That is called life :)
[21:48] <Noskcaj> unfortunately, the only workaround, is never use parallels
[21:49] <phillw> Noskcaj: last cycle it was do not use the most up to date VBox. These things happen. I'm still spitting mad that the KVM bug seems to languish unloved.
[21:49] <balloons> ok last mailing ondeck is the classroom scheduling
[21:50] <balloons> I think folks are going to be buried by all the scheduling :-)
[21:51] <phillw> balloons: we may be kidnapping #ubuntu-classroom for a period of 14 days. I would struggle to hold 3 X 1 hour sessions on virtualisation. People new to it would not stand a chance and leave.
[21:52] <phillw> they have to learn to walk before we ask them to run :)
[21:53] <elfy> Noskcaj: you have a draft now
[21:54] <phillw> balloons: and as to where i add a classroom session for LVM?!!!! It's not really QA/Testing subject, but just really useful.... your thoughts?
[21:56] <balloons> phillw, we should make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom have a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom like the subpages
[21:58] <balloons> we should also grab the old openweek and devweek sessions and link them
[22:02] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom look okay?
[22:03] <balloons> phillw, yes
[22:03] <balloons> mail should hit the list in a second
[22:04] <balloons> then my good sir, it's time for dinner!
[22:04] <phillw> it is time for bed here!
[22:44]  * elfy completely forgot that it'd be pointless to be on the ubuntu-qa mailing list ...
[23:47] <smartboyhw> balloons: How's the classroom session?