[03:21] <Lord_Athur> hi
[03:21] <crimsun> hi.
[03:22] <bddebian> Heya Lord_Athur
[03:40] <Lord_Athur> bye all
[03:58] <HellDragon> bye
[04:26] <HellDragon> hu
[04:26] <HellDragon> hi*
[04:48] <LaserJock> hi alucard :-)
[04:48] <alucard> Hi!!!
[04:49] <HellDragon> hi
[04:50] <alucard> My wife is a Kinder teacher (Puerto Rico) and I'm looking an alternative cheaper and better tha MS Windows and softwares.
[04:51] <alucard> I found ubuntu and I order the all collections including edubuntu.
[04:51] <LaserJock> cool
[04:51] <lecaros> alucard, welcome to edubuntu world :)
[04:52] <alucard> Right now I'm using a laptop with Ubuntu.
[04:52] <lecaros> nice
[04:53] <alucard> What I really need is to know what teachers are doing with edubuntu in the class rooms.
[04:54] <LaserJock> well, I think that would be a great question for the edubunt-users mailing list
[04:54] <LaserJock> edubuntu-users rather
[04:54] <LaserJock> as there are quite a few teachers using Edubuntu
[04:55] <alucard> I few months ago I saw a website linked in the edubuntu Homepage that showed the projects and methods introduced by teachers in the class, but I can't find the link anymore.
[04:57] <alucard> Ubuntu is the easiest Linux Distro ever.
[04:59] <LaserJock> it's great for sure
[05:00] <alucard> Is there a website with linux educational software for children????
[05:01] <LaserJock> I think there is
[05:01] <LaserJock> there is a page that has an overview of the apps installed in edubuntu by default
[05:03] <LaserJock> I think there are a few Linux educational app pages out there, I just don't know of any off hand
[05:03] <LaserJock> the edubuntu-users list should have lots more info
[05:05] <alucard> I'm going to check it. Thank You!!!
[05:06] <LaserJock> no problemo
[05:06] <LaserJock> thanks for the interest
[05:08] <alucard> I'm very pleased with Ubuntu. Thank You!!! Bye!
[05:09] <lecaros> bye alucard
[05:15] <ryan_naruto> my ubuntu doesnt recognize my usb stick when i plug it in... at first it did but when i ejected it and plugged it back in it cant detect it anymore what should i do...
[05:16] <lecaros> ryan_naruto lsusb output?
[05:17] <mhz> ryan_naruto: via LTSP (on the client) or the server?
[05:19] <HellDragon> he
[05:42] <mhz> is lulu.com the one to print EHB?
[05:42] <mhz> LaserJock: ?
[05:42] <LaserJock> well, I don't think that was decided yet
[05:42] <LaserJock> but it certainly could be
[05:43] <LaserJock> nothing preventing it
[05:43] <mhz> LaserJock: ah, but when I read "Lulu", they are talkin gbaout it
[05:43] <mhz> ?
[05:44] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[05:44] <mhz> LaserJock: thx
[07:01] <HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco
[07:01] <jsgotangco> hey
[07:01] <HedgeMage> How are you?
[07:01] <jsgotangco> rains here are so bad at the moment, my connection always drops
[07:01] <jsgotangco> its been raining here for a week already
[07:01] <HedgeMage> awww
[07:02] <HedgeMage> better than the heat here, I bet.
[07:02] <jsgotangco> we do have summers here (2 months ago) but we don't experience them higher than 40C
[07:03] <HedgeMage> I have no idea how hot that is, I can't think in celsius
[07:03] <HedgeMage> doesn't sound that hot, though.
[07:03] <jsgotangco> celsius
[07:03] <jsgotangco> yeah it can be a bit hot
[07:03] <jsgotangco> but some parts of the globe like AU go beyond that
[07:04] <jsgotangco> but then, i live just above the equator so its pretty normal for us
[07:04] <LaserJock> 25C is around room temp ~75 F
[07:04] <jsgotangco> so what's up
[07:36] <marcel`> Good morning
[07:36] <marcel`> Good morning
[07:36] <marcel`> sorry typo
[09:05] <RichEd> morning to all :)
[09:06] <jsgotangco> hi
[09:07] <RichEd> hi jsgotangco : how was the weekend ?
[09:08] <jsgotangco> RichEd: pretty boring, its been raining for days here, with no sunlight whatsoever
[09:08] <jsgotangco> just styaed at home
[09:09] <RichEd> well we've had similar - rain, cold, mostly miserable, with a brief patch of sun. are you in winter or summer ? not sure which hemisphere you fall into ?
[09:13] <jsgotangco> just above the equator, in south east asia
[09:15] <RichEd> ah ... that would have been my guess ... just below thailand & to the left ?
[09:15] <RichEd> being so close to the equator, do you get much winter / summer variation ? or just in rainfall pattern ?
[09:18] <spacey> probably the latter:)
[09:26] <jsgotangco> we only have 2 seasons
[09:26] <jsgotangco> summer and rain
[09:27] <jsgotangco> thailand is 4 hours away by plane
[09:27] <jsgotangco> we're 1 1/2 hours away from hongkong
[09:30] <RichEd> okay ... making more sense now ... will check out a map to pin down a location.
[09:31] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i'm seinding a mail to Regina Lopez in a short while ... will CC you in
[09:32] <jsgotangco> thanks but she's in NY and has no email access till the 7th
[09:33] <RichEd> oky ... noted ...
[10:08] <RichEd> ogra: ping
[10:16] <RichEd> anyone here can offer basic info on OLPC background ?
[10:30] <RichEd> bundled edubuntu applications <- is there a ready reference list somewhere ?
[10:31] <jsgotangco> RichEd: as in what the project is all about?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> RichEd: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
[10:33] <RichEd> jsgotangco: as in we have a h/w mnf talkong about his own OLPC project ... i need to make sure my understanding is correct ... question follows
[10:33] <jsgotangco> RichEd: the link is for your 2nd question btw
[10:33] <RichEd> tx: just found the advocacy link myself ... tx.
[10:35] <jsgotangco> ok
[10:35] <RichEd> quick question (while rodarvus is not available) for OLPC ... is there a specific version of Edubuntu & Ubuntu to cope with the limited hardware spec, or is it a custom version per specific OLPC config. dsign.
[10:36] <jsgotangco> nope there is none at the moment, that's why rodarvus has an OLPC board with him to check what we can do
[10:37] <jsgotangco> its actually his job to make an OLPC compliant version of Ubuntu
[10:42] <RichEd> just to get my understanding 100% - i'm assuming that there is no generic OLPC hardware spec ? i.e. various manf. will come up with their own was of cutting cost (and hence their own funcky or trimmed down h/w components) ?
[10:43] <RichEd> and hence there may be a custom version required for each manf. h/w config ?
[10:43] <RichEd> or is the ideal to have either:
[10:43] <RichEd> 1) all OLPC manf. conforming to a (broad) standard
[10:44] <RichEd> or 2) an Edubuntu / Ubuntu OLPC install that copes with OLPC variations
[10:44] <jsgotangco> no its basically 1)
[10:45] <jsgotangco> your contact might not be conforming to 1)
[10:45] <jsgotangco> which is not surprising
[10:45] <jsgotangco> have you seen the OLPC wiki?
[10:46] <jsgotangco> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification
[10:47] <jsgotangco> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software
[10:48] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i will point them to the same OLPC links and ask about this "your contact might not be conforming to 1)"
[10:48] <jsgotangco> well they might have a different plan
[10:48] <jsgotangco> to provide a cheap laptop
[10:49] <jsgotangco> not necessarily an OLPC kind
[11:06] <RichEd> well this is the official request, but the east to west english translation it ambiguous: You may know _xxx_ is OLPC ODM company. Except working with OLPC organization, _xxx_ is planning our own commercial model.
[11:07] <RichEd> and they are aiming at a mode for "richer students" @ $ 200
[11:07] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[11:07] <RichEd> best to ask for clarity ... keep it clear from the start. thanks ... i'll manage from here.
[11:08] <jsgotangco> i think they want to sell it themselves
[11:08] <jsgotangco> rather than having a government contract to distribute them
[11:30] <ogra> RichEd, pong
[11:30] <RichEd> hi ogra ... sorted out my query with some help from jsgotangco ... thanks. done.
[11:30] <ogra> oki :)
[01:31] <cbx33> there is still a large amount of spam coming through on edubuntu-devel
[01:31] <cbx33> is there anything more we can do about this?
[01:33] <ogra> there is spam getting throuhg ??
[01:34] <jsgotangco> i dont receive it, its most likely the admin mails
[01:35] <cbx33> Well, admin mails have a different header don;t they?
[01:35] <ogra> yep
[01:35] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:35] <jsgotangco> if they don't appear in the archive, then only the admins are receiving it
[01:35] <cbx33> These are coming through just like normal emails
[01:35] <cbx33> right hang on
[01:35] <cbx33> lemme check
[01:35] <cbx33> ok
[01:35] <cbx33> I'm stupid
[01:35] <jsgotangco> i dont see any spam
[01:35] <cbx33> ignore me
[01:36] <jsgotangco> :D
[01:36] <cbx33> ogra: I got rsyncer working
[01:36] <ogra> damned ... i'll spend my whole day with that powermanager crap ...
[01:36] <cbx33> can patch you later
[01:36] <ogra> cbx33, great .... i'll check it if i find the time
[01:36] <cbx33> that's fine
[01:36] <cbx33> I may make a slight alteration for grasynco
[01:37] <cbx33> the create function will need to be modified so it doesn't rsync
[01:37] <ogra> currently i'm having a bad day de to gnome-power-manager shanged most of the core code and i have to rewrite 90% of the patches
[01:37] <cbx33> just sets up directories
[01:37] <ogra> s/de/due/
[01:37] <cbx33> yikes
[01:37] <cbx33> sorry dude
[01:37] <jsgotangco> yikes
[01:37] <cbx33> I'd offer to help, but not sure I could do much could i?
[01:37] <ogra> nah ...
[01:37] <jsgotangco> hmm double yikes, i got application rejections already :D
[01:38] <cbx33> applications for?
[01:38] <jsgotangco> work heh
[01:38] <cbx33> ah
[01:38] <jsgotangco> i just smile when i rejected
[01:38] <cbx33> those are all too familiar to me
[01:39] <jsgotangco> heh one was Canonical
[01:39] <cbx33> yup I got one of them too :p
[01:39] <jsgotangco> lol welcome to the club
[01:39] <cbx33> we'll go out for a virtual drink later :p
[01:40] <cbx33> club members only :p
[01:40] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:40] <ogra> jsgotangco, for which one did you apply at canonical ?
[01:41] <jsgotangco> hmm i dont remember lemme check
[01:41] <cbx33> Hahaha
[01:41] <cbx33> :p
[01:41] <jsgotangco> im sure i submitted for 2 jobs
[01:41] <jsgotangco> i still didnt get rejected on the other one so yeahhhh
[01:42] <ogra> hehe
[01:42] <jsgotangco> hehe i got rejected on community manager
[01:42] <jsgotangco> anyways im not really a community leader of sorts
[01:44] <jsgotangco> he can be good at it
[01:44] <Seveas> ogra, I haven't -- not nearly enough experience
[01:45] <jsgotangco> yeah that's one thing
[01:45] <jsgotangco> ive had enough community experience i'd say but locally
[01:46] <ogra> i dont think an external guy with much community experience would help if he has no *ubuntu* community experience ...
[01:47] <jsgotangco> i dunno probably someone with organizational skills like mdke can fit the job
[01:47] <ogra> well, i dont see mdke deeply involved in so many areas ...
[01:48] <jsgotangco> we will just know when someone comes out and says he's the new guy heh
[01:48] <ogra> you need to me active widespread in many areas ... the commuity is more than just the dcteam :)
[01:48] <ogra> *doc
[01:48] <ogra> s/me/be/
[01:49] <cbx33> I'd love the community bazaar job :p
[01:49] <ogra> jsgotangco, sure we will ... but it would be wrong to have an external guy who doesnt have 100% trus of the community ...
[01:49] <cbx33> ogra: i agree
[01:49] <ogra> (imho ... and i''m not canonical HR)
[01:51] <ogra> btw, did everybody send feedback to AliasVegas ?
[01:52] <jsgotangco> well...
[01:57] <spacey> feedback about what?
[02:01] <ogra> spacey, about artwork, like she ased for in the last meeting
[02:01] <ogra> *asked
[02:02] <spacey> ah, i missed that. lots of family obligations. :/
[02:04] <ogra> she asked for feedback about the current theme (what you dont like in dappers theme and why) and for suggestions for the edgy theme
[02:06] <spacey> ah ok
[02:33] <marcel`> Will there be a next edubuntu release in octobre?
[02:38] <ogra> marcel`, sure
[02:41] <marcel`> ogra: Great! are all the developers of Ebuntu in this channel?
[02:41] <ogra> yup
[02:42] <marcel`> Great work for this amount of people :)
[02:42] <ogra> :)
[02:42] <marcel`> I would like to help but im kinda new to linux so i think ill only screw things up
[02:44] <RichEd> marcel`:  many people help in many ways ... from development to artwork !
[02:45] <ogra> (over documentation :) )
[02:45] <RichEd> if you are interested, send me a list of skills or voluntary effort you would be keen to put in and we will find you a welcome home
[02:45] <marcel`> ogra: What do you mean?
[02:46] <ogra> marcel`,  from development over documentation to artwork
[02:46] <marcel`> ogra: Ah oke
[02:47] <RichEd> creata a PVT window to me if you want to chat further on this
[02:47] <marcel`> PVT is PM?
[02:48] <Petaris> marcel`: Yes
[02:48] <Petaris> Hi ogra
[02:49] <ogra> hey
[02:56] <jsgotangco> im going to sleep
[02:56] <jsgotangco> good night all
[02:56] <marcel`> good night jsgotangco
[02:56] <jsgotangco> nice weather to sleep too
[03:30] <bddebian> Hello
[03:35] <RichEd> hi
[03:36] <RichEd> pretty quiet here now ... going out for 20 mins.
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi all, i was wondering if someone could confirm/fail to confirm a bug for me? its something i only seem to have had with edubuntu+swcanner
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> its bug 42775 fyi
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> and bug 42773 as well
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> (swscanner again)
[03:51] <ogra> well, it should at least recommend kdesu ...
[03:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> but surely it should use whats available - in this case gksu, not kdesu
[03:53] <ogra> that would require a kind of intelligence in the .desktop file we dont have
[03:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> shouldnt the install script take care of it in postinst?
[03:55] <ogra> thats an issue you could discuss on the -devel mailing list ... there is no requirement for such a thing yet ...
[03:56] <ogra> but if it uses kdesu it should in any case at least recommend kdesu ... thats indeed a bug
[03:58] <ogra> writing a spec without discussion isnt the right way :)
[03:59] <ogra> just point out the bugs and ask if that wouldnt be better if we generated .desktop entrys in postinst based on availability of the needed admin tool
[03:59] <ogra> if th erest of discussion leads anywhere you can spec it
[04:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds like a good idea - i'm just not sure i'm able to express stuff well enough to make a sane email :)
[04:07] <Petaris>  Anyone remember a while back, Sun (I think) released a product that would take legacy apps and make them avaliable via a web interface?
[04:07] <Petaris> I had it bookmarked but I must have lost it
[04:08] <Petaris> It was /.ed at the time so I couldn't check it out
[04:09] <marcel`> Does anyone here know where the icons for a default edubuntu is stored on the FS?
[04:10] <Petaris> marcel`: Probably in /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons
[04:12] <marcel`> Petaris: thanks ill check it out right away
[04:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, do you th8ink i should email devel? is it worth it basicly
[04:13] <ogra> yes
[04:13] <ogra> else i wouldnt have suggested it :)
[04:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh :) i'll start a draft (note i should do it basicly), and do it wheni get home morning day after tomorrow
[04:14] <Petaris> ahh, found it
[04:14] <Petaris> Sun Secure Global Desktop Software 4.2
[04:15] <marcel`> Aww man i cant find that great firefox icon anywhere.. sugestions?
[04:16] <ogra> marcel`, the one from the gartoon iconset ?
[04:16] <ogra> look in /usr/shre/icons
[04:16] <ogra> *share
[04:18] <marcel`> Awsome i got it thanks
[04:27] <marcel`> hm that weird i found the icons in /usr/share/icons/gartoon/scalable but if i want to select een icon for one of my launcher it just doesnt see them in the list
[04:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> night all
[04:27] <marcel`> GN Kamping_Kaiser
[04:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[04:30] <mhz> hi all
[04:31] <mhz> RichEd: got my email?
[04:34] <RichEd> yep ... sure did ... i saw your question this morning, but you were gone already (sorry i was not ignoring you ... did not mark myeslf away for the weekend)
[04:34] <RichEd> will send you a response before i close off for the day today ... within the next 2 hours
[04:36] <mhz> RichEd: heheh, do not worry, I would find it difficult to believe someone committed to this channel and project would ever ignore other person with no reason at all ;)
[04:37] <RichEd> well there is also "committed" as in "committed to a insane asylum" so you can never be to sure ;)
[04:37] <RichEd> too <- to
[04:38] <mhz> hehehe
[04:38] <mhz> yeah
[04:38] <mhz> god point
[04:39] <mhz> RichEd: and BTW, I did try my best to sum up that email. Sorry if it still got too long. And if there are some missing details, well, it was the summing up fault
[04:39] <mhz> :)
[04:40] <RichEd> mhz: no problem ... enough to get me started on a conversation with you. expect an acknowledgement from me today, and a some suggestions over the next few days.
[04:43] <mhz> cool
[05:35] <Petaris> Anyone know of a program for linux (or a web based program) that is akin to Read Naturally (http://www.readnaturally.com)
[05:38] <cberlo> Hi folks.  I'm back at configuring my shiny new LTSP server...  I'm looking for pointers on getting printing set up so that I can assign individual printers per user.  I.E. I want user1 to map to printer1, user2 to map to printer2, user3 to map back to printer1, etc.
[05:39] <cberlo> I have all of my users authenticating through winbind and have them in unique groups.  I'm planning to map the printers based on which group they're in.  Is this feasible with Edubuntu LTSP at the moment?
[05:46] <cberlo> ogra:  How's progress on LTSP coming along?  I've been reading enough today my eyes are already bugging out, and I've just come back from vacation....
[05:46] <hlabs> can edubuntu be setup as a kiosk
[05:47] <mhz> re
[05:48] <mhz> hlabs: sorry, but what do you mean by 'kiosk' ?
[05:49] <ogra> hlabs, sure, install sabayon and create profiles ...
[05:49] <hlabs> A small, self-standing structure such as a newstand or ticket booth. Unattended multimedia kiosks dispense public information via computer screens. Either a keyboard, touch screen or both are used for input
[05:49] <hlabs> that was the definition
[05:49] <hlabs> thanks ogra i will try out sabayon
[05:51] <ogra> cberlo, what direction do you mean? the merge with upstream or the development of edgy specs ?
[05:53] <mhz> ogra: thx, I was kind of lost there as I have not been able to run sbayaon on this old pc's ;)
[05:53] <cberlo> ogra: mostly, development in general.  Things like local devices, printing, etc.
[05:53] <ogra> local devices are specced very well, i'll start implementing them mid of first week in august ...
[05:53] <cberlo> Been trying to enable as many features as possible, and I keep running into lack of documentation or non-implemented features
[05:53] <mhz> hlabs: please let me know if sabayon works for you and if it is what you needed. My guess is that there will be more people with similar questions
[05:54] <ogra> printing is included in dapper already but buggy, thats rather bughunting than developing :)
[05:54] <hlabs> well. You see im new to this linux OS.
[05:54] <cberlo> ogra: Is there an implemented way to automatically switch default printers on the thin client based on who logs in?
[05:54] <hlabs> there is a lot of difference here. in XP you can setup a Webpage as a your desktop
[05:55] <hlabs> but in ubuntu you can't do that
[05:55] <ogra> cberlo, nope
[05:55] <cberlo> ogra: Thanks for the straightforward answer.  :)
[05:55] <ogra> :)
[05:55] <mhz> ogra: as most of edubuntu apps are not specific to edubuntu, if volunteers wanted to translate apps (shipped by edubuntu), they'd do it via Rosetta and look up ubuntu apps?
[05:55] <ogra> but thats something we could implement in edgy+1 if you write a nice spec  ;)
[05:56] <ogra> mhz, yup
[05:56] <cberlo> How long until edgy+1?
[05:56] <ogra> development starts in october
[05:56] <Petaris> Its sad that so many of the comercial educational softwares have no viable linux or truly web based alternatives
[05:56] <ogra> (edgy releases in oct)
[05:57] <ogra> Petaris, we'll just write better ones ;)
[05:57] <cberlo> I really want to use Edubuntu for this project, but more and more it's looking like I'm going to have to switch to the "main" K12 LTSP stuff to get things up for September...
[05:57] <ogra> it will solve itself over time
[05:57] <mhz> hlabs: well, true, Linux comes from a different world, therefore different approach. However, during last 5 years, there has been lots of work towards desktop and end-user
[05:57] <Petaris> ogra: You have to find people who can, and have the drive to, or be able to hire someone(s) to do it
[05:58] <Petaris> And then some of these apps have to have certifications from the government (at least in the US)
[05:58] <hlabs> mhz you missed my point. See if you use XP you can setup a webpage to be your active desktop. So technically it would then become a multimedia kio
[05:58] <ogra> cberlo, k12 switchs printers on clients based on the user logged in ?
[05:58] <hlabs> *kiosk
[05:59] <mhz> hlabs: oh, yup
[05:59] <Petaris> It would be cool if there was a central location to list comercial apps that need good OSS alternatives
[05:59] <mhz> hlabs: so you can do it in OSX
[05:59] <ogra> hlabs, you can install the epiphany browser, set it with sabayon or pessulus to operate in fullscreen and have the same ...
[05:59] <cberlo> ogra: Not that I'm aware of, but it does have the local device access stuff working, and a VNCReflector setup that allows my teachers to "peek in" on students...
[05:59] <mhz> hlabs: maybe there is a way to do it like that in linux too, but I do not know.
[06:00] <ogra> cberlo, both planned features for edgy ...
[06:00] <hlabs> yeah i will surely try that approach
[06:00] <cberlo> Okay, I'll persevere.  And see if I can script the printer stuff....
[06:00] <cberlo> ogra: how should I go about writing a spec for edgy+1 for printer scripting per user?
[06:01] <ogra> cberlo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientLocalDevices, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/StudentControlPanelCompletion
[06:01] <hlabs> say by the way you folks won't happen to how to setup edubuntu or ubuntu to become usefull in a cyber cafe enviroment
[06:01] <mhz> hlabs: does kiosk also means other users can use your computer resources and apps. remotely, defining which user can do this or that?
[06:01] <cberlo> hlabs: there are howtos on that kind of thing on the net -- I looked into it before, but not with Ubuntu.
[06:02] <mhz> hlabs: Edubuntu is aimed towards computer labs, for edu purposes
[06:02] <mhz> hlabs: and that goal is achieved
[06:02] <hlabs> well to be honest. I tried to use edubuntu.  Buts  its not working out
[06:02] <mhz> hlabs: kiosk mode is something I am not familiar with so far.
[06:02] <cberlo> ogra: Does Edubuntu's CUPS implementation include the LPDEST variable anywhere?
[06:03] <mhz> hlabs: what issues did you get?
[06:03] <ogra> cberlo, no need to ask me here, i'm in #ltsp ... and i dont know :)
[06:03] <hlabs> well kiosk is just a fancy way of saying that the pc is in lockdown and users cant change anything. And that they have access to stuff setup by the admin
[06:03] <cberlo> haha.  Sorry 'bout that -- didn't see you over there.
[06:04] <mhz> hlabs: linux does that in many ways, by default. Sabayon is the app to create diff. profile
[06:04] <mhz> hlabs: and you can also do that without sabayon even
[06:04] <hlabs> my issue was that i followed all the instructions to setup edubuntu alas. When i connected to it via an Hp e-pc it would not work
[06:05] <hlabs> yeah but here is the dumb part of the process. The admin has to kick or boot the user at the end of their sessions
[06:05] <mhz> hlabs: if you have SomeGroup, and users in that group, and you define which apps or access these users will have, no matter which way you boot up (LTSP or locally), users will be forced to play by the rules defined by you.
[06:06] <hlabs> well how can i do that
[06:06] <cberlo> I'll see if I can submit a spec on that printing thing.  Looks like you guys are already on it, so if I can come up with anything, I'll let you know.
[06:06] <mhz> hlabs: re Edubuntu issue/ we'd need a little bit of more info so we can understand what went wrong for you when trying Edubuntu
[06:07] <cberlo> ogra: Thanks again.  I'll continue to work on my Edubuntu install here.  Hopefully it'll be "good enough" for September (per my supervisor).
[06:07] <mhz> hlabs: you could try sabayon
[06:09] <mhz> hlabs: and there are some caybercafes settings via Linux, I am sure. Edubuntu could work there beatifully. And if you need a way to charge users per hour, yeah, there are some apps that run even via web
[06:10] <hlabs> well i got the billing part done right. I even manged to build a voip platform for the     cafe its just that i loaded up edu. and all was set . It was not showing any problems. Then i tried my terminal pc to connect to it. And bamm it could not find the dhcp from the edu servver
[06:10] <mhz> hlabs: Edubuntu server is a machine that provides apps and hardware resources to run those apps from 'thin-clients' or less powerfull machines that only have little RAM but not enough processor.
[06:12] <mhz> hlabs: then, you should check two things at least  a) is the client network card able to boot via net   b) is the dhcp config set correctly
[06:12] <hlabs> well the client is able to boot via the network. And the dhcp settings are the same as that of the screenshhot
[06:13] <mhz> hlabs: yeah, but your dhcp settings must be according to your own network settings
[06:14] <mhz> hlabs: could you paste.bin your network settings and your dhcp ones?
[06:14] <hlabs> well my setup is kinda based on dynamic settings. See there is the modem then the router then the edu server. From there its all going to the switch that distributes it all to the thin clients
[06:14] <mhz> hlabs: good, that sounds correct
[06:15] <hlabs> but then the miserable thin client does not locate dhcp. I took the same machine to a buddy of mines netowrk and it works there
[06:15] <mhz> hlabs: the modem (ISP) provides dynamic IP to your router, and the router provides local IP to the edu server only?
[06:16] <hlabs> yeah the router provides dynamic ip to the edu server
[06:16] <mhz> router = usually provides dhcp  |   eduserver = always provides dhcp
[06:16] <mhz> hlabs: so, if 2 machines provide dhcp... most likely there will be conflict
[06:17] <mhz> (obv. i mean in same network)
[06:17] <hlabs> so what should i do
[06:17] <hlabs> then
[06:17] <mhz> hlabs: first, I'd suggest you try disconnectin the eduserver from router
[06:18] <mhz> so, leave only this: Eduserver -> swithc -> client
[06:18] <mhz> if client boot, it was router conflict
[06:18] <mhz> :)
[06:18] <mhz> typos!
[06:18] <mhz> sorry
[06:18] <hlabs> hey that sounds like a very good idea.
[06:19] <mhz> hlabs: and I now must leave, else I am gonna be told off
[06:19] <hlabs> but how would i connect my hotspot . It has to have access to the internet
[06:19] <mhz> hlabs: good luck
[06:19] <hlabs> ok thanks for everything
[06:19] <ogra> you cant run two dhcp servers in ne net at the same time if you need to boot from one of them ... i'd suggest getting a second network card
[06:19] <hlabs> i will try your suggestion out
[06:19] <mhz> hlabs: i am sure others here will jump in and help too
[06:19] <ogra> (and setting up a second network as well fro the clients)
[06:20] <mhz> ogra: yup +1
[06:20] <ogra> edubuntu will default to a two NIC setup from edgy on as well ... to avoid this problem one and for all
[06:20] <hlabs> well thats just dandy
[06:27] <LaserJock> ogra: hmm, I got a reply back from the sabayon dev
[06:28] <LaserJock> Most of the developers of sabayon have all their time filled up with
[06:28] <LaserJock> working on other modules, so its not very actively maintained. However,
[06:28] <LaserJock> its not dead or anything. We very much would like it to get better.
[06:28] <ogra> yay
[06:28] <LaserJock> that's a quote ^^
[06:28] <ogra> sounds like "patces accepted" :P
[06:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, so get to work ;-P
[06:29] <ogra> he could have expressed it shorter ;)
[06:29] <bddebian> ogra: I'm checking on hula, do you mind?
[06:29] <ogra> me ?
[06:29] <ogra> why should i ?
[06:29] <bddebian> You where the last one to upload to Ubuntu
[06:29] <ogra> really ?
[06:29] <LaserJock> ogra: he also said "Merging profiles sounds quite hard. It might be possible for the gconf
[06:29] <LaserJock> stuff, but for the copy-a-file backends its not obvious how it would
[06:29] <LaserJock> work."
[06:29] <ogra> my mind must be really bad then
[06:29] <bddebian> Yep, apparently it hasn't been thrown up since hoary ;-)
[06:30] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:30] <ogra> bddebian, go ahead then :)
[06:30] <bddebian> Thx
[06:33] <bddebian> Fruck, lost my ssh connection :-(
[06:47] <rodarvus> bddebian: note that current hula from svn is not really useful
[06:47] <rodarvus> (or is not supposed to be)
[06:47] <bddebian> rodarvus: ?
[06:47] <rodarvus> its in a state of flux
[06:55] <bddebian> So I shouldn't sync with Debian?
[06:56] <ogra> test it :P
[06:56] <ogra> should be fine to drop my (in fact herzis) package completely and use the debian one
[06:57] <ogra> the hoary version was the very first release they ever made ... anything should be better than that
[06:57] <ogra> i think it was even a prerelease
[07:02] <Amaranth> aww, rejected
[07:04] <bddebian> ogra: OK, thx
[07:11] <ogra> Amaranth, yeah, two issues ...
[07:11] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:11] <Amaranth> i might as well do all of the other stuff too while i'm at it though
[07:11] <ogra> as you like :)
[07:13] <ogra> btw, the .desktop file should have Categories=GNOME;Application;Settings;System; and X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true
[07:13] <ogra> so it shows only in sudoers menus and is in the system settings ...
[07:20] <Amaranth> looks like i have to start working on this in edgy
[07:22] <ogra> well, "packaging" is even included in the project name :)
[07:25] <LaserJock> I think my conclusion is that sabayon just isn't going to work for dynamic-menus, unless I can find a way around needing to merge profiles.
[07:25] <LaserJock> sabayon just includes too much data
[07:26] <ogra> so whats the solution ?
[07:27] <LaserJock> is it possible, as Amaranth has suggested, to be able to set XDG_DATA_DIR for the users?
[07:27] <ogra> addimg a profile editor as add-on to alacarte ? (i.e. writing a small standalone pygtk gui and add a button to alacarte)
[07:27] <Amaranth> you'd need some sort of login hook to set it
[07:27] <ogra> Xsession.d
[07:27] <LaserJock> I'm trying to avoid the seb problem, but I'm not sure what all that intails
[07:28] <LaserJock> we just can't touch gnome-menus like what was done for sudo, correct?
[07:28] <Amaranth> ?
[07:28] <Amaranth> ogra: you also have to generate .menu files for all the groups on the system
[07:29] <ogra> if you can do it by XDG_DATA_DIR and we add a Xsession.d script, that should work, no ?
[07:29] <Amaranth> ogra: then teach alacarte how to edit "root" menus and you're set (mostly)
[07:29] <Amaranth> afaik unless you actually edit the content of a menu item alacarte doesn't touch it anymore (it uses .menu files for hiding and moving) so that should be ok
[07:30] <Amaranth> the main catch is generating the .menu files for every group
[07:30] <LaserJock> well, we planed on shipping predifined .menu files for the groups we wanted
[07:31] <Amaranth> the .menus files wouldn't have to do much, just merge in the /etc/xdg/menus/ .menu files
[07:31] <Amaranth> that works then
[07:31] <LaserJock> I mean sabayon would be ok if we could just pick out the menu stuff
[07:32] <LaserJock> but there is nothing stoping the admin from putting firefox stuff in the profile for instance
[07:32] <LaserJock> and then you might have a problem
[07:32] <Amaranth> now you either need a way to set XDG_DATA_DIRS before launching alacarte or a sudo user that's in each group
[07:33] <Petaris> ogra: Is there anyone besides ajmitch that is working on the AD integration?
[07:33] <LaserJock> Petaris: ajmitch has been around the last few day, he's just not up yet
[07:33] <Amaranth> a separate GUI that just launches "XDG_DATA_DIRS=/foo alacarte --root" would work (said GUI is already launched with gksudo)
[07:33] <LaserJock> right
[07:33] <LaserJock> that's what I was thinking
[07:34] <ogra> why a separate gui ? thats even only a separate .desktop entry
[07:34] <Amaranth> GNOME is about to be in feature freeze so I'd have to include the root mode as a patch in the package
[07:34] <Petaris> LaserJock: When does he usually pop in?
[07:34] <Amaranth> ogra: a separate .desktop file for every group?
[07:34] <ogra> no, only one .desktop file for the above command
[07:35] <ogra> gksudo 'XDG_DATA_DIRS=/foo alacarte --root'
[07:35] <Amaranth> ogra: you have to set XDG_DATA_DIRS to something different for every group
[07:35] <LaserJock> Petaris: hmm, not quite sure. He is in New Zealand so it might be a few more hours. You could always try emailing him
[07:35] <ogra> ah
[07:35] <ogra> ok
[07:35] <ogra> right, but that would be a failrly simple gui ...
[07:35] <Amaranth> indeed
[07:36] <LaserJock> although, we still need to handle a user belonging to more than one group
[07:36] <Amaranth> just a list of groups and a button to launch alacarte for the selected group
[07:36] <Amaranth> LaserJock: -ESEP
[07:36] <Amaranth> Somebody Else's Problem :)
[07:36] <LaserJock> aka, me :-)
[07:36] <Amaranth> LaserJock: there is no sane method of handling that
[07:37] <Amaranth> there might be any possible method of handling that
[07:37] <ogra> whats the problem ? as far as i understood it, xdg is capable of reading from different sources
[07:37] <LaserJock> Aaron was talking about that overlay thing
[07:37] <ogra> you just need to create a merged menu file ...
[07:37] <Amaranth> the problem with putting things in applications-merged/ is that they load in random order
[07:38] <Amaranth> and alacarte will still only edit one .menu file
[07:38] <LaserJock> ok, so what if we had a simple gui that had the groups and the alacarte button and then merged the menus some way and put them in the ~/ of all the users
[07:39] <LaserJock> we only need this thing to set up the menu once in a while
[07:39] <LaserJock> it wouldn't neccessarily need to be at every login
[07:41] <Amaranth> so you edit a group's .menu file with alacarte, click another button in this GUI, and it shoves .menu files in every user's ~/.config/menus/?
[07:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:41] <LaserJock> like an "Apply" button or something
[07:41] <Amaranth> i suppose that could work
[07:41] <Amaranth> but the merging would be a PITA
[07:42] <Amaranth> doable, but not just a simple merge, you have to keep track of <Move>s and crap
[07:42] <Amaranth> well, it might be doable
[07:42] <LaserJock> well, it wouldn't be a problem I don't think for most of our stuff
[07:42] <Amaranth> but you're letting admins do whatever they want to these menus
[07:42] <LaserJock> we mostly want the absence or presence of items
[07:42] <LaserJock> true
[07:43] <Amaranth> if for one group they move Games into a submenu and for another group they add a couple of things to Games merging the two gets tricky
[07:43] <Amaranth> you have to make sure the move happens after the adding
[07:44] <LaserJock> arg
[07:45] <LaserJock> well the simpilest thing I can think of is shipping predefined .menu files that aren't editable
[07:45] <LaserJock> but that doesn't seem very nice
[07:47] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:47] <Amaranth> in my example you can do some fun stuff to put the move at the end
[07:47] <Amaranth> but i can quickly give you an example that is undoable without manual help
[07:48] <Amaranth> For one group they move System Tools into Administration and for another group they move it into Preferences how do you handle that?
[07:48] <Amaranth> that should be two sentences :)
[07:51] <LaserJock> well, it would be nice to make an assumption or two about what kind of editing we need
[07:51] <LaserJock> and be able to limit to those
[07:57] <Amaranth> LaserJock: i don't think i want to hack up alacarte that badly
[07:57] <LaserJock> I agree
[08:01] <LaserJock> Amaranth: will Edgy's alacarte have --root support?
[08:02] <Amaranth> if it's needed i can add it
[08:03] <ogra> thats totally enough for now ... no weird hacking please :)
[08:03] <LaserJock> yes
[08:04] <cbx33> evenin guys
[08:04] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[08:04] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[08:05] <ogra> what about pointing the user menus to a system dir that contains .menu files that are only readable by a certain group ...
[08:05] <ogra> we could solve it on a filesystem level
[08:06] <ogra> no idea how xdg behaves with such a case though
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know either
[08:09] <ogra> i mean you have a directory full of .menu files but each is only readable by its group and editable by root
[08:10] <LaserJock> again, what about a user belonging to multiple groups? how does xdg handle that?
[08:11] <ogra> i guess you end up with doubled menu entries (but thats only a guess)
[08:11] <LaserJock> it seems like merge work would have to be done at some point
[08:24] <crimsun> it sounds like there needs to be a bit more logic at a higher level
[08:24] <crimsun> the fs level sounds fine; you're just pushing the complexity up one layer
[08:25] <LaserJock> hmm, can I get that in english?
[08:26] <crimsun> erm. Ok, say you go the route that ogra proposed; to avoid duplicate entries you'll need to filter, which pushes the complexity into the menu app
[08:27] <LaserJock> right
[08:31] <LaserJock> so we have 1) use fs level and filter out duplicates (not sure what that would invlove) or 2) create tool to merge menus and put in user's ~/
[08:45] <RichEd> hi guys ...
[08:46] <LaserJock> hi RichEd
[08:47] <RichEd> hi LaserJock
[08:48] <RichEd> LaserJock: how's your knowledge of networking under Linux ?
[08:48] <RichEd> went off to gym and went out of range of the Wireless Hub ... and now that I am back home ... it won't recover
[08:49] <RichEd> not sure how to restart the interface on Edubuntu so that it searches for the signal ?
[08:49] <LaserJock> my knowledge of networking under anything is pretty bad. I know enough to be able to setup a home network and that's about it
[08:50] <crimsun> RichEd: ifdown $iface && ifup $iface
[08:50] <crimsun> e.g., sudo ifdown eth1 && sudo ifup eth1
[08:50] <crimsun> (where $iface is your network interface as listed in ``ifconfig -a'')
[08:50] <RichEd> thanks crimsun ... was looking for just that ... unload & reload it no ?
[08:51] <crimsun> reloading the kernel driver is probably overkill in this case
[08:53] <RichEd> oops ... ive dug a deeper hole for myself than I thought ... i fiddled with the ethernet settings, and it told me i changed the host name amd won't be able to start any apps until i reboot ...
[08:53] <RichEd> so can't start a terminal :(
[08:54] <RichEd> looks like reboot is my only option ?
[08:54] <LaserJock> can you change the hostname back?
[08:55] <RichEd> i didn't really change th host name, just swopped locations ... did not do any actual edit of any host entry
[08:55] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:55] <Petaris> RichEd: You could restart networking
[08:55] <Petaris> maybe
[08:56] <Petaris> not sure if hostname is handled by that or not
[08:56] <RichEd> (had this situation before ... bit didn't have eleventy seven windows open ... so am being lazy about noting what is open where and rebooting back to whare I was)
[08:56] <RichEd> where <- whare
[08:57] <RichEd> Petaris: how would i restart netrworking without a terminal prompt ?
[08:57] <Petaris> RichEd: Why don't you have a terminal prompt?
[08:58] <Petaris> oh, the hostname
[08:58] <RichEd> yep ...
[08:58] <Petaris> hrm, I did that before
[08:58] <Petaris> ummm
[08:58] <Petaris> yep, you need to reboot
[08:58] <crimsun> no, that shouldn't be necessary
[08:59] <Petaris> and maybe even go into repair mode if you buggered the system like I had done
[08:59] <crimsun> in the /worst/ case you'll have to switch to a tty (ctrl+alt+F1), log in, then ``sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart''
[08:59] <crimsun> (unless of course it's sudo that's complaining about the hostname)
[09:00] <Petaris> crimsun: When I did it, it was sudo that was complaining
[09:00] <crimsun> Petaris: yeah, that's a pain.
[09:01] <RichEd> getting somewhere ... right to the friendly message Ubuntu conmes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law ;)
[09:01] <crimsun> it's the next part that may be problematic
[09:01] <crimsun> ``sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart''   that is
[09:02] <RichEd> * reconfiguring etc. ... cursor flash flash flash
[09:02] <Petaris> crimsun: That episode just re-comfirmed my opinion that it is always wise to enable the root account
[09:02] <crimsun> Petaris: sure, it's your computer, do what you want
[09:03] <RichEd> right got an OK
[09:03] <LaserJock> \o/
[09:03] <RichEd> now how do i get back to the pretty GUI ?
[09:03] <crimsun> alt+F7
[09:04] <RichEd> ah ... still no signal ...
[09:04] <RichEd> don't want to waste your time with my knickers in my own knot so to speak ...
[09:04] <crimsun> you may have to log out and back into gnome
[09:04] <RichEd> and it is getting late for me (the wife is calling) ...
[09:04] <crimsun> oh yeah, forget the computer stuff
[09:04] <crimsun> people++
[09:04] <LaserJock> heh
[09:04] <RichEd> so perhaps a tidy up & reboot would hurt less than a domestic episoide ;)
[09:05] <LaserJock> gosh, I wish it was that easy for me
[09:05] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:05] <RichEd> (have you seen JaneW when she is angry ;)
[09:05] <LaserJock> heh, no
[09:05] <RichEd> (or neglected ... even worse ;)
[09:05] <LaserJock> I've seen *my* wife though
[09:05] <LaserJock> not a good thing
[09:06] <crimsun> cya
[09:06] <LaserJock> when she gives you that "Ist me or the computer" stare
[09:06] <LaserJock> cya RichEd
[09:07] <RichEd> thanks crimsum ... learnt a little bit ...
[09:07] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:07] <RichEd> bye
[09:21] <Amaranth> ogra: i've got the stuff to create a willowng user, does start-stop-daemon automagically handle the rest? cupsys doesn't seem to do anything special to run with it's own user
[09:27] <Petaris> Hi highvoltage
[10:31] <mhz> highvoltage: ping
[10:31] <HellDragon> hi
[10:31] <bddebian> Hello HellDragon
[11:23] <hazemmohamed> Hello every body, I have a problem with my screen resolution?
[11:23] <hazemmohamed> it is stick on 1280*1024 and it is not comfortable
[11:24] <hazemmohamed> I tried to change it from prefrences with no effect
[11:24] <hazemmohamed> I want it 1024*786
[11:24] <hazemmohamed> does any one can help?
[11:25] <hazemmohamed> I'm using edubuntu Dapper
[11:26] <Lord_Athur> hi all, which firewall do you recommend me?
[11:26] <mhz> Lord_Athur: iptables ?
[11:27] <Lord_Athur> pardon my ignorance mhz, what's iptables?
[11:27] <mhz> firewall
[11:28] <mhz> :)
[11:28] <Lord_Athur> yes, I want a firewall.
[11:30] <pygi> mhz, rather suggest him some interface to configure it?
[11:30] <mhz> pygi: oh, good point
[11:30] <mhz> Lord_Athur: iptables is a firewall way
[11:31] <Lord_Athur> ok mhz, so, what can i do with it in order to make it work as a firewall?
[11:31] <Lord_Athur> can I install it?
[11:31] <pygi> mhz, suggest graphical application :) Or should I do it? :P
[11:31] <pygi> Lord_Athur, it's there already, just not active
[11:32] <dan_young> Lord_Athur: are you trying to seucre a single machine or a network?
[11:32] <dan_young> *secure
[11:32] <Lord_Athur> my own and single pc
[11:33] <Lord_Athur> hahaha, pygi I've just uninstalled firestarter :(
[11:33] <pygi> Lord_Athur, what's wrong with it?
[11:34] <Lord_Athur> I'd like to try another one...
[11:34] <pygi> you could go with shorewall or write IPTABLES rules by yourself even, but I don't think that's a way to go for you
[11:34] <pygi> but who am I to know anything :P
[11:34] <Lord_Athur> hahaha, ok,
[11:35] <Lord_Athur> haha, ok, now I'm trying ipcongfu
[11:35] <mhz> re
[11:35] <Lord_Athur> don't worry,
[11:35] <dan_young> Lord_Athur: take a look at gnome-lokkit too...
[11:36] <dan_young> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/gnome/gnome-lokkit
[11:36] <Lord_Athur> ok,
[11:36] <Lord_Athur> what about SELinux?
[11:36] <dan_young> Lord_Athur: not a firewall
[11:36] <Lord_Athur> :)
[11:37] <dan_young> urk, looking close at gnome-lokkit, it's pretty outdated, w/ GTK1... bad recommendation, sorry.
[11:40] <pygi> Lord_Athur, may I advise that you use other general channels for your questions?
[11:40] <Lord_Athur> Yes, you may
[11:40] <pygi> I may even point you to some books/web resources if you want to read up on things :)
[11:41] <Lord_Athur> pygi, who am I to know what you may/may not do :P
[11:41] <Lord_Athur> thanks all
[11:41] <Lord_Athur> anyway GuardDog seems to be a good option if sb want to know :P
[11:42] <Lord_Athur> see u later
[11:42] <pygi> Lord_Athur, that's KDE...Edubuntu is Gnome...but anyway, your question was general as you don't use neither Linux or Edubuntu
[11:44] <HellDragon> hi
[11:44] <mhz> hi HellDragon


[11:55] <fizzled> network Connectivity check is an irritation how do i stop it 22.10
[11:56] <fizzled> It's ok i got it.. PRIVACY
[21:31] <howarth> Anyone else running into CSR_RESET errors in iwlwifi loading at boot?
[21:31] <howarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1992194
[21:31] -ubottu:#ubuntu-next- Launchpad bug 1992194 in linux (Ubuntu Kinetic) "random CSR_RESET errors in iwlwifi appear under kinetic" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[21:32] <howarth> Tentatively, I may have those suppressed using
[21:32] <howarth> options iwlwifi power_save=0
[21:32] <howarth> options iwlmvm power_scheme=1
[21:32] <howarth> options iwlwifi uapsd_disable=1
[21:32] <howarth> in /etc/modprobe.d/iwlwifi.conf
[21:33] <howarth> Historically, those seem to often be workarounds used for other iwlwifi bugzilla reports related to driver initialization failures


[02:40] <blkperl> slangasek: summary!
[02:41] <blkperl> slangasek: The staff like to announce things in advance, otherwise they get irritated
[04:04] <slangasek> blkperl: sent
[04:07] <slangasek> bkerensa: fixing debian/watch == making it so uscan does the right thing
[04:10] <bkerensa> slangasek: ok but how would I do this :)
[04:57] <slangasek> bkerensa: by reading the uscan documentation ;)
[04:57] <bkerensa> slangasek: k
[05:32] <blkperl> slangasek: thanks
[05:37] <slangasek> blkperl: yep - sorry for not getting it to you sooner :/
[16:19] <bdmurray> if anybody is interested in SRU verification bug 993056 should be easy


[00:53] <geirdal> hello
[00:56] <geirdal> Iam an digital visual artist, how can I contribute to this community?
[09:31] <studio-user243> buongiorno dove trovo tutorial per capire come funziona ubuntu studio?
[09:32] <sakrecoer> studio-user243: | !it
[09:32] <studio-user243> si
[09:32] <sakrecoer> !it
[09:33] <zequence> studio-user243: We are working on tutorials. Hopefully we will have some available before the 16.10 release in October
[09:33] <studio-user243> join #ubuntu-it
[09:34] <sakrecoer> studio-user243: http://stefanodroghetti.altervista.org/produzione-musicale ...? :)
[17:27] <Sbur> I have a stumper... I can't get my ubuntu studio to work.  It is stuck in 15.10.  Network is disabled.  "sudo dpkg --configure -a" didn't fix anything.  When I did get "sudo startx" to give me a GUI, I got a message about XML not working
[17:28] <Sbur> What kind of commands can I try to force it to work or to do a backup of what is on the /sda7 partition?
[17:50] <StNicolas> Ubuntu Studio 15.10.  Network disabled. How? Why? "sudo dpkg --configure -a" doesn't do anything. "Sudo startx" starts GUI, but nothing works
[17:50] <StNicolas> What to do?
[22:55] <geirdal> hi Iam new here! how does this work?
[22:57] <geirdal> is this brainstorm plattform?
[22:59] <geirdal> its about 20 years since I was on irc chasnnel
[23:01] <krytarik> geirdal: Hey there.  Feel free to pop in to -devel or -offtopic as well - depending on the context.
[23:02] <geirdal> thank you for answer :)
[23:02] <geirdal> how do I do that
[23:03] <krytarik> "/join <channel>"


[00:06] <cyphermox> infinity: I know this isn't hard to verify or fix, but I want  to make sure it's actually doing something useful
[00:07] <infinity> cyphermox: It's definitely finding a bug.
[00:07] <cyphermox> tgtd's purpose is to find bugs?
[00:07] <infinity> cyphermox: The daemon should be starting on install (and, indeed, can start manually), but isn't.
[00:07] <cyphermox> I know
[00:07] <infinity> cyphermox: No, autopkgtest's purpose is to find bugs. :P
[00:08] <cyphermox> ;)
[00:08] <infinity> Might be a bug in init-system-helpers or something.
[00:08] <infinity> The postinst looks pretty boilerplate.
[00:08] <cyphermox> looks like it might be that, yes
[00:09] <infinity> Except we've had that same init-system-helpers code since vivid.
[00:09] <infinity> (The merge, after the fixups, was a no-op)
[00:10] <cyphermox> what changed is that now systemd
[00:10] <infinity> Doesn't finish its sentences?
[04:23] <pitti> Good morning
[04:24] <pitti> slangasek: thanks; seems she is still doing her job
[04:35] <gordon_> hmmm
[04:35] <gordon_> wanted to fix some bugs
[04:35] <gordon_> but seems like all of them are either not consistent
[04:35] <gordon_> or from old versions / translations
[05:54] <snkt> hiii
[05:55] <snkt> can anyone help me how to remove all the packages from ubuntu 10.04.3 or else from where I can download ubuntu-core 10.04.3
[05:59] <Noskcaj> snkt, The isos are at http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04.3/ if that's what you want
[05:59] <snkt> Noskcaj, i want a minimal ubuntu of 10.04.3 without any application installed
[06:00] <Noskcaj> I assume you could just mark everything for uninstallation in synaptic then unmark the stuff that comes with the ubuntu-desktop metapackage.
[06:00] <Noskcaj> You could also use the mini iso then just install what you want from that
[06:00] <TJ-> snkt: You can build such a configuration using deboostrap
[06:01] <snkt> Noskcaj, TJ- , Thanks for your response...
[07:01] <dholbach> good morning
[07:01] <seb128> hey dholbach
[07:44] <seb128> wgrant, hey, how is the wily translation opening going?
[07:44] <wgrant> seb128: Need to schedule exports with pitti.
[07:45] <seb128> pitti, ^
[07:46] <pitti> wgrant: I suppose we can stop utopic cronjobs
[07:46] <wgrant> pitti: Given that it dies in three weeks, quite possibly.
[07:46] <pitti> wgrant: disabled on my end
[07:46] <wgrant> pitti: Will switch them over on mine.
[07:46] <wgrant> pitti: Do you recall the wiki page?
[07:47] <pitti> wgrant: I curently run vivid on Tue, and trusty on Fri
[07:47] <pitti> wgrant: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
[07:48] <pitti> oh dear, that's severely outdated
[07:48] <wgrant> Hm, well that looks totally out of date
[07:48] <wgrant> Yeha
[07:48] <pitti> wgrant: so, drop all but trusty and vivid, add wily, and then I'll adjust my cronjobs accordingly?
[07:49] <pitti> I need to do the first build manually, but I'll do that once it's on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+language-packs
[07:49] <wgrant> pitti: Are we considering 14.09 dead?
[07:49] <pitti> wgrant: AFAIK we completely updated to vivid+PPA
[07:49] <wgrant> Great.
[07:49] <pitti> and will probably move to rtm/15.04 for translations
[07:49] <wgrant> We may need to add the new 15.04 series later, but we can get there.
[07:49] <wgrant> Yep
[07:50] <wgrant> pitti: I might stick wily in the precise slot, to avoid the weekend.
[07:50] <pitti> wgrant: for releases, doing wily on Monday would be good
[07:50] <wgrant> Ah, true.
[07:50] <pitti> although..
[07:51] <pitti> last time infinity wanted the langpacks done the week before already, i. e. Thu/Fri export would be better indeed
[07:51] <pitti> and for the alphas it doesn't matter really
[07:51] <pitti> wgrant: sorry about the confusion -- so wily on Thu sounds better
[07:51] <pitti> (so that I can build on Fri)
[07:52] <wgrant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11834712/ -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11834720/
[07:53] <wgrant> diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11834721/
[07:53] <wgrant> Looks sane?
[07:53] <wgrant> trusty moves a day earlier.
[07:53] <pitti> wgrant: ITYM "wily" in teh last line
[07:53] <wgrant> Er yeah
[08:16] <mardy> pitti: I guess that python-dbusmock cannot be used to mock methods which are implemented in the dbus daemon itself, right? (like "GetConnectionAppArmorSecurityContext")
[08:16] <tjaalton> do trusty daily images get some sort of testing?
[08:17] <pitti> mardy: I've never tried that; my gut feeling is "no", but maybe dbus/python-dbus do allow it
[08:17] <pitti> wgrant: so, what's the final crontab now?
[08:17] <mardy> pitti: ok, I might try then, thanks
[08:26] <pitti> wgrant: nevermind, thanks for updating the wiki
[10:14] <ricotz> mdeslaur, hi, there are new releases of nss/nspr which could get in to wily
[11:11] <mdeslaur> ricotz: yes, there are
[11:35] <ogra_> xnox, yo ... you didnt answer my question on bug 1323732
[11:43] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/791661
[11:44] <ogra_> Unit193, hah, thanks ... that crazy mvo guy
[11:45] <ogra_> (though that still doesnt answer my question if xnox' suggestion would work for us :) )
[11:46] <Unit193> :)
[12:10] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Hey!  Any idea when the fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1470060 will land in Wily?
[12:15] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, is that the cause of your "can't start applications" issue?
[12:15] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: upstream said they were going to release 222 today
[12:15] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: I'm ready to package it (I have pkgs for current git snapshot)
[12:15] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: so, hopefully today
[12:16] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: if you need some working packages right now, please feel free to use https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/systemd
[12:16] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: It *might* be the issue for that, but it's also blocking some work I'm doing for the Lagacy X app support project I'm working on.
[12:16] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Cool, thanks!
[12:16] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, was your issue from yesterday under a system using the lxc contained version of unity8?
[12:17] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: No, it's the non LXC version on Wily.
[12:17] <seb128> k, that doesn't explain that issue then
[12:19] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: This is what is printed out in syslog when trying to start an app:
[12:19] <ChrisTownsend> Jul  6 08:54:07 Slave1 cgmanager[802]: cgmanager:do_create_main: pid 3150 (uid 1000 gid 1000) may not create under /run/cgmanager/fs/freezer/user.slice
[12:19] <ChrisTownsend> Jul  6 08:54:07 Slave1 cgmanager[802]: cgmanager:do_create_main: pid 3151 (uid 1000 gid 1000) may not create under /run/cgmanager/fs/freezer/user.slice
[12:20] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: It seems it might be related, but I don't know these things, so I'm just guessing.
[12:20] <seb128> yeah, unsure why other systems don't have the same issue
[12:20] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Right.  I'll try pitti's package and see what happens.
[12:21] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: probably won't help; cgmanager is independent of sytsemd
[12:21] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: oh, maybe it will, nevermind
[12:21] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: if that's an unpriv LXC container that you are trying to trun
[12:21] <pitti> run
[12:21] <soee> can someone confirm if after (probably) kernel upgrade to 4.0 we can't now switch gpu on hybrid machine (intel + nvidia)?
[12:22] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Yeah, was just taking a stab in the dark.  I'm not very hopeful:)
[12:25] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: \o/ It fixed my that issue!
[12:26] <seb128> weird
[12:26] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: It's weird that I'm the only one seeing that and that this fixes it.
[12:26] <seb128> right
[12:26]  * ChrisTownsend Shrugs
[12:27] <seb128> unsure what triggers the issue/what is different in your config
[12:27] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: "it" being the new version? or what?
[12:27] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: No clue.
[12:27] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: So the issue I had was that apps in Unity 8 dekstop wouldn't start due to the error I pasted above.
[12:27] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: You systemd PPA fixes this issue for me.
[12:28] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: No LXC's invlolved.
[12:28] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: nice! so it's the same cgroup issue then, cgmanager wants to create sub-cgroups for your session as your user
[12:28] <seb128> pitti, what is weird is that others don't hit that issue
[12:29] <pitti> yeah, it's a race condition
[12:29] <seb128> oh, ok
[12:29] <pitti> cat /proc/self/cgroup
[12:29] <ChrisTownsend> Oh...my computer is blazing fast I guess:)
[12:29] <pitti> if they all end with session-XX.scope, it's correct, but you might have some controllers which are just in the top-level (or some intermediate) hierarchy
[12:30] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: And to confirm, my unprivileged lxc's now start.
[12:30] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Thanks!
[12:30] <pitti> yw!
[12:30] <pitti> I wrote an autopkgtest now, so hopefully we'll stop breaking the unpriv lxc support
[12:31] <pitti> it's a distro patch, so it needs to be adjusted to behaviour changes in upstream
[12:31] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: That will be a very welcome test:)
[12:58] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Hey again.  Seems Reboot/Shutdown from the power indicator are no longer working w/ the systemd from your PPA.  Is this known?
[12:58] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: This is Unity7.
[12:59] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: not known, no; let me try
[12:59] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Ok.
[13:02] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Hmm, in my syslog, gnome-session is complaining about needing interactive authentication for those operations.
[13:02] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: works fine here
[13:02] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: so it probably means you don't have a "local" logind session
[13:03] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: do you mind filing a bug with "loginctl" and "loginctl show-session $XDG_SESSION_ID" outputs?
[13:03] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Hmm, wonder how I got into that state.
[13:03] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Sure, I can file the bug.
[13:06] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: That bug should be filed against the systemd package, right?
[13:07] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: yes
[13:07] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: ack
[13:13] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Ok, filed bug #1472259.  Let me know if you need any other info.
[13:14] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: just to be sure, that's from a clean boot?
[13:14] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Yes
[13:14] <pitti> State=closing
[13:14] <pitti> so, odd indeed
[13:14] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Shall I purge your PPA just to be sure?
[13:14] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: oh, is that *after* you requested a shutdown?
[13:14] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Oh, right, I requested it.
[13:14] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: that would explain the "closing"
[13:15] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: ok, so that part is right; it seems some process is hanging in your session then
[13:15] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: does it shut down after 90s?
[13:15] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: No, it doesn't.
[13:15] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: can you please attach the output of "journalctl" there too, for completeness?
[13:16] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: I can reboot and get those outputs before issuing any shutdown or reboot.
[13:16] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Sure.
[13:16] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: after issuing shutdown is fine
[13:16] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: and even necessary -- as that's when the bug happens
[13:18] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Ok, attached the output of journalctl.
[13:22] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: I suppose "loginctl terminate-session $XDG_SESSION_ID" also doesn't do anything?
[13:23] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Says "Failed to issue method call: Access denied"
[13:23] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: right, sorry, with sudo
[13:23] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: I should have known that:)
[13:23] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Nothing happens
[13:24] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: hm, no immediate idea yet, I'm afraid; could you reboot with "debug" in the kernel command line, (try to) shut down again, and again attach "journalctl"?
[13:25] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Yep, will do.
[13:25] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: I'm assuming that you only upgraded systemd, nothing else?
[13:25] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: thanks
[13:27] <pitti> slangasek: will we have a TB today, or do we cancel it (as agreed last meeting, when there are no topics)?
[13:27] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: A couple of other packages that don't look relevant were upgraded too.  However, the new 4.0 kernel was installed, and the first reboot I tried after running the 4.0 kernel was after I installed systemd.  After I get this output, I'll purge your ppa and see what happens.
[13:28] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: cheers
[13:34] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: After purging your PPA, I can reboot/shutdown again.
[13:37] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: ok; let's see whether the debug log reveals anything
[13:37] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Ok.  I attached it to the bug.
[13:37] <pitti> Jul 07 09:28:32 Slave1 gnome-session[1850]: gnome-session[1850]: WARNING: Shutdown failed: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InteractiveAuthorizationRequired: Interactive authentication required.
[13:37] <pitti> ok, that again
[13:38] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: err, wait, this looks *seriously* wrong:
[13:38] <pitti>         c1 110 lightdm seat0
[13:39] <pitti>          1 1000 townsend
[13:39] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Yeah, I thought that didn't look right.
[13:39] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: that means lightdm has the "foreground" session, and your XDG_SESSION_ID is c1
[13:39] <pitti> and "your" session is a remote one "1"
[13:40] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: does that also look like that if you boot with wily's systemd?
[13:41] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Nope, it only lists my user as c2 and seat0.
[13:41] <pitti> that sounds correct then
[13:41] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: hm, need to think about thsi
[13:42] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Sure.  Let me know if I can gather any more data or anything else to try.
[13:42] <ChrisTownsend> pitti: Thanks!
[14:40] <seb128> stgraber, hey, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is down/503, known issue?
[14:43] <teward> seb128: there was a 'downtime' notice email earlier today
[14:44] <teward> it went out over the -quality mailing list
[14:44] <teward> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2015-July/006051.html
[14:45] <seb128> teward, thanks
[14:46] <teward> you're welcoem
[15:10] <smoser> cyphermox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1402042
[15:10] <smoser> will that be sru'd to trusty ?
[15:10] <smoser> if not, any suggestions on how maas should know which token to use (--- or --) would be appreciated.
[15:11] <smoser> also would have to sru to precise installers.
[15:11] <smoser> :-(
[15:13] <cyphermox> the token change is already in the releases it should be. do you need to completely rewrite a command-line or can you append to it?
[15:13] <cyphermox> appending should be safe, things *should* (but it would be best to verify) already have the trailing separator
[15:17] <smoser> cyphermox, well, the problem is that maas now needs to behave differently based on the release it is installing
[15:17] <smoser> which it previoulsy did not do.
[15:17] <smoser> so i'd like to be able to throw '---' at everything and have the installers dtrt
[15:18] <cyphermox> I think it will, but I'm not certain
[15:18] <cyphermox> ie. --- on a -- release, you'll just get an extra token that preseed doesn't understand, and it shouldn't make it give up
[15:19] <cjwatson> the worst case there is that it won't be appended to the boot config in the installed system
[15:19] <smoser> right. thats what i care about.
[15:19] <smoser> i need it copied over to the installed system. otherwise i'd not be putting a '--' there at all.
[15:19] <cjwatson> but actually, I don't think even that's a problem
[15:20] <cyphermox> t just depends what debconf key it is
[15:20] <smoser> i dont care about debconf keys
[15:20] <smoser> i care about kernel command line args
[15:20] <smoser> ie if i boot installer as:
[15:20] <cyphermox> hum, then I think you do need to have the separator
[15:20] <smoser>   somearg root=someplace arg2 -- foo=bar zee wark
[15:21] <cyphermox> yeah
[15:21] <smoser> i need 'foo=bar zee wark' copied over to install system
[15:21] <cyphermox> smoser: give me a minute I'll look at preseed and whatnot
[15:21] <cjwatson> ah, right, yeah, valid separator is required.  but it should be fine as long as you're definitely picking up SRUed installers
[15:21] <smoser> so the installars have been sru'd then ?
[15:21] <cjwatson> hm, checking
[15:22] <cjwatson> doesn't look like it, in fact.  they really ought to be, because kernel backports
[15:22] <smoser> right.
[15:23] <cjwatson> affects anything from 3.15 on
[15:23] <smoser> right.
[15:24] <cjwatson> so IMO we should SRU debian-installer-utils to precise/trusty/utopic, then that'd be picked up by the next d-i SRU
[15:24] <cjwatson> the patch accepts either separator so is safe
[15:24] <smoser> right.
[15:24] <smoser> so i'll just make bug 1402042 affects debian-installer-utils ?
[15:25] <smoser> maybe change the bug title.. or i can file another.
[15:45] <smoser> cjwatson, what package to affect ?
[15:46] <mdeslaur> stgraber: do we have a tech board meeting today?
[15:46] <smoser> got it. (was confused when apt-cache didn't know about debian-installer-utils)
[15:51] <stgraber> mdeslaur: not sure, I was planning on joining the channel and see if people were there :) according to the wiki it's slangasek's time to chair
[15:51] <mdeslaur> stgraber: oh! I misread the wiki and though it was you
[15:52] <slangasek> ah, well I'm planning to be there :)
[15:53] <slangasek> infinity kees pitti: TB meeting in 7 minutes :)
[15:53] <pitti> slangasek: ack
[15:56] <cjwatson> smoser: yeah, apt-cache show won't tell you about udebs, but apt-cache showsrc would have done
[15:56] <cjwatson> debian-installer-utils, indeed
[15:57] <hjd> Hm... sqlalchemy in Wily-proposed failed to build on amd64 because it didn't find python-zzzeeksphinx (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sqlalchemy/1.0.6+ds1-1/+build/7577027). But sqlalchemy built successful on all other architectures (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sqlalchemy) even though zzzeek-sphinx is only available on amd64 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zzzeeksphinx).
[15:59] <snow_ru> hi
[15:59] <hjd> I'm confused why it would fail on one architecture, but not the others. Am I missing something here?
[15:59] <snow_ru> hi all
[16:00] <snow_ru> i don't know if this bug is fixed
[16:00] <snow_ru> so I come here
[16:00] <cjwatson> hjd: your premises are wrong in two ways :-)
[16:00] <snow_ru> sudo apt-get install python-pip
[16:00] <snow_ru> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[16:00] <snow_ru>  python-pip : Depends: python-pip-whl (= 1.5.4-1ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
[16:01] <snow_ru> Recommends: python-dev-all (>= 2.6) but it is not installable
[16:01] <cjwatson> hjd: firstly, python-zzzeeksphinx is available on all architectures - it's just only built on amd64, because it's architecture-independent
[16:01] <snow_ru> Recommends: python-wheel but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[16:01] <snow_ru> thanks !
[16:02] <cjwatson> hjd: secondly, the reason this only failed on amd64 is that it's listed in Build-Depends-Indep, which is only considered on amd64 (as of vivid)
[16:02] <snow_ru> I saw on lauchpad that htis bug has been fixed a couple of weeks ago, but it stll happens on my machine
[16:02] <cjwatson> hjd: finally, the reason it failed at all is that sqlalchemy is in main, but python-zzzeeksphinx is in universe
[16:03] <cjwatson> it requires a main inclusion report for zzzeeksphinx if that build-dep is going to stay there
[16:05] <pitti> . o O { can we reject MIRs on the grounds of "silly/unpronouncible package name"? }
[16:06] <hjd> cjwatson: Ah, ok. "python-zzzeeksphinx is available on all architectures" That makes sense, I should probably have guessed/checked that since it's a python package.
[16:06] <hjd> cjwatson: Didn't check main vs universe though.
[16:13] <hjd> cjwatson: I'm reading about Build-Depends-Indep, but I'm not sure if I understood it correctly. They are dependencies which are used to create architecture independent packages (https://wiki.debian.org/Build-Depends-Indep), but they are only fetched for a particular architecture? Is it simply that the architecture independent binary packages are built once (because once for each arch would simply create duplicates) and the architecture
[16:13] <hjd> where they are built happen to be amd64?
[16:14] <cjwatson> hjd: as you say.
[16:14] <hjd> ok :)
[16:14] <cjwatson> though not "happens", it's specifically configured that way.
[16:14] <cjwatson> used to be i386, but amd64 is a better default nowadays, so that's what's used from vivid on.
[16:23] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: ah, nice! http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-July/033464.html
[16:23] <snow_ru> ok.
[16:27] <snow_ru> wgrant, ?
[16:29] <snow_ru> wgrant, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-pip/+bug/1468155
[16:46] <arges> is there a bug for fixing /etc/network/interfaces to somehow match the interface name that systemd sets up in wily?
[16:46] <pitti> arges: no, and we don't plan on doing this on upgrades; upgrades won't use the new names
[16:47] <pitti> arges: it's not just /e/n/i, it's also firewall configs and an unknown amont of other places where admins might rely on the old names, so this is essentially not upgradeable automatically
[16:47] <arges> pitti: so here's my problem. I install wily using the daily iso. When I boot the machine /etc/network/interfaces doesn't match what ifconfig -a shows me
[16:47] <pitti> there's a manual procedure in /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian
[16:47] <arges> so i don't have networking until I type in the name manually into /etc/network/interfaces
[16:47] <arges> (this is server only obviously)
[16:48] <pitti> arges: ah, so apparently you found a case where the installer hardcodes eth0, or there's something wrong with the udev-udeb
[16:48] <pitti> arges: would you mind filing a bug with the details how you installed, your /e/n/i, and the installer logs?
[16:48] <arges> pitti: the testcase is: install wily ubuntu-server
[16:48] <arges> pitti: what does /e/n/i mean?
[16:48] <pitti> arges: against systemd should do for now, I can reassign it to d-i or wherever appropriate
[16:48] <pitti> arges: /etc/network/interfaces
[16:48] <arges> pitti: ah! make sense
[16:49] <arges> pitti: yup, I figured I'd check if this was a 'known issue' first
[16:49] <arges> i'Ll file the bug
[16:49] <pitti> arges: not that I know of
[16:49] <pitti> arges: cheers!
[16:55] <pitti> ChrisTownsend: I asked for another log in the bug, if you have time
[16:56] <teward> pitti: can I pick your brain for a moment?  NOt sure if I did before.
[16:56] <teward> when you have a minute :)
[17:15] <nemo> So we have pretty good maintainers of the ubuntu packages these days for Hedgewars.  Locutus is very diligent w/ backports
[17:15] <nemo> and even obscurish stuff like arm and testing our C cross-compile...
[17:16] <nemo> the issue is that ubuntu does not make upgrading to backports terribly discoverable for users
[17:16] <nemo> today 'cause I was a bit more attentive, I ran into 3 users over the course of 2 hours on our server using 0.9.20 - the version released in 2014
[17:17] <nemo> none of them could play other users, so were just a bit frustrated at the lack of rooms.
[17:17]  * ogra_ lols about "obscurish stuff like arm" ...
[17:17] <nemo> ogra_: heh. well... if we actually had a functioning mobile port
[17:17] <ogra_> nemo, we sell phones with ubuntu on it
[17:17] <nemo> ogra_: there aren't a ton of arm desktops. chromebook, but unfortunately graphics accel on chromebook sucks
[17:17] <ogra_> what arch do you think they are ;)
[17:17] <nemo> ogra_: I know... I keep meaning to try ubuntu mobile on my nexus 5
[17:17] <nemo> ogra_: just noting our phone situation isn't great
[17:18] <ogra_> its young ...
[17:18] <nemo> ogra_: not totally sure the touch integration is even compiled in that package
[17:18] <nemo> so from our perspective, arm is kind of obscure ☺
[17:18] <nemo> anyway...
[17:18] <nemo> so.. I get why backports is not so discoverable for users. you don't want people accidentally breaking key system packages
[17:19] <nemo> but... hedgewars is pretty much the opposite of that. broken without upgrading, and not a key package, in fact, pretty isolated.
[17:19] <nemo> is there, by any chance, some flag to request "auto upgrade" for a package? that is, recommend upgrade if backports is enabled?
[17:19] <gordon_> Wish to try Ubuntu touch on nexus 6
[17:19] <nemo> gordon_: is that directed at me? don't have a nexus 6, don't plan to ever buy one
[17:20] <gordon_> No, not to you
[17:20] <nemo> seems barely worth the price now after the price cut, and pissed off at lack of replaceable battery or minisd
[17:20] <nemo> ok
[17:20] <gordon_> I have nexus 6 ;)
[17:20] <nemo> *microsd
[17:20] <gordon_> And can day that it's nice
[17:20] <nemo> if there is such a flag, I could ask locutus to enable it on our package, to cut down on this annoying fact that 6 months after latest release we still get a steady stream of confused ubuntu users
[17:21] <nemo> well. more like a trickle. windows *is* the dominant platform :-/
[17:21] <nemo> and OSX isn't a problem w/ upgrading
[17:34] <cjwatson> nemo: no such server-side flag for backports.  If it's broken without upgrading, though, then it should probably be updated as an SRU, in -updates; this fits the same kind of conditions as https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-March/000550.html
[17:34] <nemo> cjwatson: I'd be all for that
[17:34] <nemo> we had some success w/ that in the past I think
[17:34] <nemo> but it has been very hit or miss
[17:34] <cjwatson> backports isn't meant to be a way to deal with a package that's just outright broken in the release pocket due to external changes
[17:34] <nemo> cjwatson: the issue is that it isn't *broken* just online play won't work against the official release version
[17:34] <nemo> cjwatson: since we are using a similar approach to, oh, Spring
[17:34] <cjwatson> well, that's an important piece of broken functionality
[17:35] <nemo> that is deterministic lockstep gaming
[17:35] <slangasek> pitti: cyphermox just brought to my attention a previously unknown (to me) corner case in proposed-migration: multipath-tools is blocked in -proposed by a buggy test in lava-dispatcher, and it looks to me that this test is buggy in the version of l-d in -proposed but not in wily.  Could p-m somehow handle this case automatically?
[17:35] <nemo> cjwatson: alright. I'll talk to locutus to see if he can switch to that approach in the future
[17:35] <cjwatson> I appreciate that going through the SRU process can take a while, but it's the best thing to do here
[17:35] <nemo> cjwatson: definitely getting tired of explaining this to ubuntu users ☺
[17:35] <nemo> cjwatson: well. I wouldn't be the one doing it 😉
[17:36] <nemo> cjwatson: deterministic lockstep isn't unusual in open source gaming. helps cut down on cheating, nice lightweight network communication.. I wonder if other games have a similar issue
[17:36] <nemo> even if they aren't doing that, can be missing key resources and such
[17:36] <nemo> cjwatson: it'd be nice if you guys could carve out a category for games
[17:37] <nemo> they are almost always not system critical, and usually people want to be on the latest hotness
[17:37] <nemo> only issue is dependencies ofc.
[17:37] <cjwatson> You could reasonably bring that to the techboard (which no longer includes me) as a suggestion, I imagine
[17:37] <nemo> ah
[17:37] <cjwatson> hedgewars in particular may be non-trivial because it's Haskell, and Haskell updates can be exciting
[17:38] <nemo> well. if #ubuntu-devel has such folks, consider it brought up 😝
[17:38] <cjwatson> I don't know how much updates to hedgewars require updates to the libraries it uses
[17:38] <nemo> cjwatson: wellll you guys could drop the server piece for all I care ☺
[17:38] <cjwatson> I expect that would be a harder sell
[17:38] <cjwatson> Dropping functionality in SRUs usually involves a whole lot more discussion
[17:39] <cjwatson> Anyway, it doesn't seem to have particularly tightly versioned libghc-*-dev build-deps, so that part is probably not a problem
[17:39] <nemo> agreed on haskell thing tho.  but luckily unc0rr doesn't add new haskell dependencies as often anymore
[17:39] <nemo> he's been kinda burned out w/ being a dad, like me ☺
[17:39] <cjwatson> It's only a problem for things that like to force latest version of everything
[17:41] <nemo> ogra_: hm... do you have an ubuntu phone?
[17:42] <ogra_> nemo, several :)
[17:42] <ogra_> (i used to work on the phone team(
[17:42] <nemo> ogra_: are you guys by any chance building hedgewars for the phone w/ MOBILE enabled?
[17:42] <ogra_> nemo, the phone community hides in #ubuntu-touch btw
[17:42] <nemo> ogra_: I think we have the phone-friendly UI and touch events hidden behind that flag
[17:42] <nemo> ah
[17:43] <nemo> might have to drop by
[17:43] <nemo> ogra_: our android and iOS ports have languished
[17:43] <ogra_> well, we dont rebuild any packages usually ...
[17:43] <nemo> but the MOBILE stuff is still in the source, and I'm curious if it is turned on/functioning
[17:43] <nemo> could ask someone to test it
[17:43] <nemo> ogra_: ah... I guess no then
[17:43] <ogra_> so yeah, test it ... but it would likely need some packaging work to not break the desktop version of the package
[17:43] <nemo> ogra_: definitely mobile UI is totally different from desktop
[17:44] <ogra_> right ...
[17:44] <nemo> but the android/iOS guys put fair amount of effort into it years ago, and in a platform generic fashion
[17:44] <nemo> if someone over there was willing to try a test build of an ubuntu mobile package, we might finally have a functioning mobile port again ☺
[17:44] <nemo> might be as easy as taking existing ubuntu package and enabling that build flag. maybe.
[17:45] <nemo> well. the frontend would not be as mobile friendly, but that's less critical than gameplay
[18:07] <snow_ru> hi MasterPiece
[18:07] <snow_ru> how areyou ?