[15:00] <mvo_> hello
[15:00] <bdmurray> hi
[15:00] <jhunt> lo
[15:01]  * stgraber waves
[15:01] <cjwatson> afternoon *yawn*
[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:01] <slangasek> afternoon... is that why I'm tired
[15:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 28 15:03:05 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
[15:03] <slangasek> stgraber mvo bdmurray jhunt ev doko slangasek barry cjwatson
[15:03] <slangasek> boom
[15:03] <stgraber> - Got rid of most of friendly-recovery's bugs, the rest will have to wait for P. (bug 524605, bug 782872, bug 852266, bug 777524)
[15:03] <stgraber> - Tracked bug 854967 down to a binary driver problem, hopefully gfxpayload blacklist will be updated to fix it
[15:03] <stgraber> - Starting poking at bug 745960 though couldn't reproduce it yet
[15:03] <stgraber> - Still trying to reproduce our "last" Edubuntu bug: bug 856460 but no luck so far
[15:03] <stgraber> - Worked on a fix for bug 848072
[15:03] <stgraber> - Did some upgrade testing for Edubuntu as we didn't have time to do it for beta2, didn't find any bug there
[15:03] <stgraber> - On the side, did some work on porting the ISO tracker to Drupal 7. Will need some more work but at least for Launchpad integration working and am now a lot more familiar with Drupal 7 API.
[15:04] <stgraber> - TODO
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Will do a bunch of uploads for translations update before final freeze
[15:04] <stgraber>  - Will then continue going through milestoned ubiquity bugs and fix as many of them
[15:04] <stgraber> oh, and did some patch piloting last Thursday
[15:04] <stgraber> (done)
[15:05] <mvo_> did:
[15:05] <mvo_> summary: lots and lots of debugging/fixing
[15:05] <mvo_> python-apt: fix bug #829284 once and for all via new ParentComponent concept in python-apt
[15:05] <mvo_> aptdaemon: debug/fix/upload new version with fix for bug #659111
[15:05] <mvo_> software-center: trying to verify remaining proxy issue, can't reproduce (#545134), port to the new UbuntuSSOClient API, tentative fix for  #857931, integrate lp:~mvo/software-center/review-stats-as-dbm for unity, debug/fix #651568 (turns out to be a bug in sun-java6), prepare debdiff, get in touch with brian
[15:05] <mvo_> piston-mini-client: add proxy support, review branch from achuni, merge, upload new piston-mini-client to oneiric,
[15:05] <mvo_> update-notifier: look at app indicator port for update-notifier (lp:~mvo/update-notifier/app-indicator-port
[15:05] <mvo_> update-manager: look at #854622 again (changelog.Debian.gz no-duplicaton)
[15:05] <mvo_> apt: work on regression test for apt-key net-update, net-update security issue, debug/diagnose/upload fix for #854090
[15:05] <mvo_> misc: patch piloting
[15:05] <mvo_> EOF
[15:05] <mvo_> stgraber: thanks for the friendly-recovery fixes!!!
[15:06] <bdmurray> since I missed last weeks meeting this covers some of that period
[15:06]  * slangasek drowns in stgraber's list of bugs
[15:06] <bdmurray> bug triage of foundations team iso-testing bugs
[15:06] <bdmurray> bug pattern writing for bug 854090 and investigation into it and bug 859976
[15:06] <bdmurray> discovered an issue with bugpatterns not working because OriginalTitle is not known when an apport bug is being reported - it is only defined when downloading  a bug title
[15:06] <bdmurray> fixed all existing patterns and emailed bug control
[15:06] <bdmurray> investigation into ntfs resize errors and ntfs-3g bug reports
[15:06] <bdmurray> plymouth apport package hook modification fixing bug 860371 (gather more log files)
[15:06] <bdmurray> modification of apport package hook for debian-installer to properly collect dm information (LP: #856826)
[15:06] <bdmurray> added active_milestones to distro_series in lpltk
[15:06] <bdmurray> wrote an important milestoned bug tasks report for slangasek and other engineering teams
[15:06] <bdmurray> html report of recently important bug tasks
[15:06] <bdmurray> created an html version of the assigned old in progress bug tasks report                                                                                created html version of report of team-left-closed bug tasks report
[15:06] <bdmurray> you can find links to all reports at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/
[15:07] <bdmurray> irc discussion regarding crichton and patch subscription
[15:07] <bdmurray> wrote and sent trip report from OReilly Strata Conference
[15:07] <bdmurray> work on role and responsibilities of the defect analysts
[15:07] <bdmurray> done
[15:07] <jhunt> On holiday last week. Fixed a trying bug in the upstart job logging code
[15:07] <jhunt> which will allow an updated ppa build this week (although still need to
[15:07] <jhunt> finish some tests). Currently working on bugs 849414, 829980 and 849414.
[15:07] <jhunt> ⏎
[15:07] <stgraber> mvo_: no prob, hopefully I can spend some more time on it for 12.04 so we can get a rocking recovery mode for the LTS
[15:07] <slangasek> [LINK] reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-next-milestone-important-bug-tasks.html - important milestoned bug tasks
[15:08] <jhunt> stgraber: I'm keen to help out with that too.
[15:08] <slangasek> bdmurray: it occurs to me that it would be nice to show the assignee on there too, btw
[15:08] <stgraber> jhunt: cool, definitely worth a session in Orlando then
[15:08] <jhunt> stgraber: agreed!
[15:08] <bdmurray> slangasek: got it
[15:08] <cjwatson> it'd be lovely for all reports.qa pages to show a timestamp of when the report was generated
[15:09] <stgraber> oh, speaking of reports, I now have: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/ if someone's wondering what's in our package sets (and doesn't want to play with edit_acl.py)
[15:11] <slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ agree with cjwatson; for that matter, embedding a link to the source would be nice
[15:11] <bdmurray> I've todo'ed the timestamp
[15:11] <slangasek> ev:
[15:12] <ev> - Fixed live-build to include universe and friends on Wubi disk images
[15:12] <ev>   (855301).
[15:12] <ev> - Call with Hugh and others on the employee survey.
[15:12] <ev> - Fixed locale issues with Wubi disk images (855295).
[15:12] <ev> - Fixed timezone issues with Wubi disk images (855287).
[15:12] <ev> - Fixed release notes update installer links being displayed when there isn't
[15:12] <ev>   a network connection (856213).
[15:12] <ev> - Fighting Wubi test harness and fixing bug (856340).
[15:12] <ev> - Repaint the wallpaper in ubiquity by entering the GTK main loop (854179).
[15:12] <ev> - Fought ubiquity tests build failures, pygobject 3 to blame (854179).
[15:12] <ev> - Replied to HP regarding customizing the installer.
[15:12] <ev> - Reviewing developer.ubuntu.com at the request of the web team before it went
[15:12] <ev>   live.
[15:12] <ev> - Set ATK names only when using --ldtp in ubiquity (781385).
[15:12] <ev> - UBUNTU IS PEOPLE! (855685).
[15:12] <ev> - Fixed Wubi not using a local ISO (bad refactoring, yay) (842397).
[15:12] <ev> - Fighting with canonical-arm on oem-config-gtk (820514).
[15:12] <ev> - Trying to get to the bottom of the apt lock bug (743395). A few attempts at
[15:12] <ev>   fixing it made.
[15:12] <ev> - Meeting with Iain, Matthew, and John on changes to the downloads page 11.10.
[15:12] <ev> - Evening fun hacking on the metrics collection backend and Wubi frontend
[15:12] <ev>   using nodejs and MongoDB.  Working prototype \o/ and I'll have a Vagrant
[15:12] <ev>   configuration (VirtualBox + puppet/chef: http://vagrantup.com/) in a public
[15:12] <ev>   branch soon, if you want to get your own projects hooked into it.
[15:12] <ev> - Fixed some bugs caught by unit tests.
[15:12] <ev> - Merged and pushed out a new slideshow with updated screenshots for the
[15:12] <ev>   latest desktop changes.
[15:12] <ev> - Reviewing Colin's async geonames branch
[15:12] <ev>   (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/ubiquity/libsoup-timezone/+merge/77324).
[15:12] <ev> done!
[15:13] <jhunt> that's a lot of fightin' :)
[15:13] <ev> :)
[15:14] <mvo_> yeah, really impressive list!
[15:14] <ev> thanks!
[15:15] <slangasek> ah, soylent ubuntu
[15:15] <slangasek> doko: did you make it back in time?
[15:15] <ev> I'm working on reanimating Heston
[15:16] <slangasek> guess not, so I'll dump doko's status here for him
[15:16] <slangasek> - more ftbfs fixes, although the pace slows down (~30).
[15:16] <slangasek> - sponsoring ftbfs fixes, ftbfs related archive removals
[15:16] <slangasek> - fixed some armel ftbfs (linker related and fpc related)
[15:16] <slangasek> - openjdk-6 JamVM update (please expect an openjdk-7 update still this week)
[15:16] <slangasek> - 853688, no real solution yet. proposed to fix the
[15:16] <slangasek> original issue in command-not-found
[15:16] <slangasek> - bug triage on some issues
[15:16] <slangasek> - scanned the armel ftbfs, no new binutils/gcc related issues found
[15:16] <slangasek> - eglibc update (maybe one more needed: 861132)
[15:16] <slangasek> - addressed (too) late linking changes in the gtk/gnome uploads on #debian-release.
[15:17] <slangasek> bug #853688
[15:17] <slangasek> bug #861132
[15:20] <slangasek> and then me
[15:20] <slangasek> pushed changes to gdm,lightdm,plymouth to give us text-free shutdown again (bug #854329).  If you still see dots over text, report bugs!
[15:20] <slangasek> fixed up i18n for console-setup (bug #838669)
[15:20] <slangasek> did some thinking about apt-key over the weekend, helping to come up with a plan
[15:20] <slangasek> qemu-linaro FFe, fixing FTBFS
[15:20] <slangasek> fixing up flashplugin-nonfree maintainer scripts
[15:20] <slangasek> upload dpkg to catch all the stragglers still missing multiarch on their systems (bug #846451)
[15:21] <slangasek> convert jackd2 to multiarch at the eleventh hour because I converted the wrong libjack before (bug #861025); still regression-testing the archive for buildability
[15:21] <slangasek> spent some time helping with FFe reviews
[15:21] <slangasek> (done)
[15:21] <ev> slangasek: will ubiquity-dm need anything for that text-free shutdown?
[15:22] <barry> bug 795096 (turbojson ftbfs - python-peak.util update); bug 850744 (quickly crash after upgrade); bug 832782 (python-omniorb ftbfs); bug 835008 (nipype ftbfs); gtimelog 0.7 release (upstream and ubuntu); bug 831344 (cardstories ftbfs); merge python-defaults from debian; python security issue 7732 (imp.find_module crasher); todo: continue on 795096 and 850744, other ftbfs. done.
[15:22] <cjwatson> some cross-build fixes
[15:22] <cjwatson> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu: Lubuntu localisation (bug 855977)
[15:22] <cjwatson> d-i: handle /dev/zram* the same way as /dev/ramzswap*; fix a collection of Xen installation bugs (bug 720558, bug 857548, bug 857662); netcfg hostname fix (bug 856088); installation-guide update; working on bug 851704; fixed up i18n for console-setup harder :-) (bug 860562)
[15:22] <cjwatson> grub: fix arcane linking bug (bug 837815)
[15:22] <slangasek> ev: the particular problem being fixed was that if there were two DMs installed on a system that had been upgraded (e.g., lightdm+gdm), one of these will stop at *startup*, so plymouth starts as soon as the runlevel event happens.  I don't think ubiquity-dm is affected by this
[15:23] <cjwatson> ubiquity: working on networkless hang on timezone page (bug 837217) - incidentally, by contrast with the mumble discussion, I found the GI Soup interface perfectly reasonable :-)
[15:23] <cjwatson> various UEFI secure boot discussions, spilled over onto ubuntu-users@ and the like
[15:23] <cjwatson> ADSL fixed last week; now have twice the bandwidth I had before, which is still not a lot but there you go
[15:23] <cjwatson> a bit generally distracted at the moment due to family medical issues
[15:23] <cjwatson> ..
[15:23] <ev> slangasek: cool, just making sure
[15:23] <slangasek> ev: but switching to emitting the 'desktop-shutdown' symbol would be nice anyway in the long term, to simplify our job logic
[15:23] <ev> noted
[15:23] <mvo_> slangasek: apt-key - I really much appreciated your help with that one, excellent plan
[15:24] <slangasek> mvo_: glad it helped!  what's the timeline for getting those changes in, then?  Will we have it in oneiric before final release?
[15:24] <mvo_> slangasek: I want to get some additional review from #security, but I think that is within the scope
[15:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: what's the state of cross-buildability now?  how far have we bitrotted?
[15:25] <cjwatson> I think I've cured the worst of the bitrot, although python2.6 doesn't seem to cross-build for me which is a current impedance to a lot of stuff
[15:26] <jhunt> a general upstart point: we should be updating upstart-events(7) when we add new events like desktop-shutdown and recovery.
[15:26] <cjwatson> wookey and I have some mismatches on what we're trying to make work
[15:26] <cjwatson> mvo: do you think you could upload that sha512 fix in apt to Debian?  if I have that there, I can upload xdeb to Debian and sync
[15:27] <cjwatson> (modulo FFe)
[15:27] <slangasek> hmm, speaking of gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, while debugging my boot flickers over the weekend, I had a poke at putting the plymouth logo on the grub background... I don't suppose anyone's planning for grub2 to grow a '-center' option for the background_image command? :)
[15:27] <cjwatson> slangasek: what we don't have, and what I think needs to be a priority in P if we're taking this seriously, is a regularly updated dashboard of current failures that *isn't* in the form of a spreadsheet attached to a wiki page
[15:27] <slangasek> heh, yes
[15:28] <mvo_> cjwatson: I looked at this the other day, its only a bug in experimental currently, unstable is fine
[15:28] <slangasek> jhunt: shall I open a task on upstart for this bug?
[15:28] <cjwatson> mvo: oh really?  ok, excellent
[15:28] <mvo> cjwatson: or will xdeb go to experimental too?
[15:28] <cjwatson> mvo: no, unstable
[15:28] <cjwatson> slangasek: center - hm, I think I tried to add -x and -y at one point, I forget what went wrong
[15:29] <mvo> cjwatson: yeah, unstable in debian is a bit behind because of the massive ABI break and the binary NMUs still will requires
[15:29] <jhunt> slangasek: cool, thx.
[15:29] <cjwatson> slangasek: cross-building> so at the moment unfortunately even answering your question is rather arduous.  Linaro's work is largely based on natty
[15:30] <slangasek> cjwatson: my current method is to use 'convert' to switch the logo from RGBA to RGB and expand it out to the dimensions that I happen to know my display comes up at... not very portable, and imagemagick isn't in the base system :)
[15:30] <cjwatson> I have 84 cross-built packages in my tree, but of course that's only a small core - I was trying to see if I could get all of Ubuntu Core to work
[15:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: I don't think putting the plymouth logo on the grub background is in general realistic, which is why I haven't pursued this
[15:30] <slangasek> fair enough
[15:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: it means it is really really obvious when your manufacturer hasn't bothered to put the KMS panel resolution in EDID
[15:31] <slangasek> I was spending a lot of time rebooting my old laptop this weekend, so I gave it a go
[15:31] <cjwatson> at least with a plain filled background, one purple screen looks much like another
[15:31]  * slangasek nods
[15:31] <cjwatson> though it would be nice if the logo faded in rather than just being blitted
[15:31] <cjwatson> bling
[15:32]  * slangasek grins
[15:33] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:33] <slangasek> bdmurray: what's buggy? :)
[15:33] <cjwatson> (please don't say "everything")
[15:33] <slangasek> it's his job to be more selective ;)
[15:34] <bdmurray> almost everything!
[15:34] <bdmurray> ;-)
[15:34] <ev> hahaha
[15:34] <slangasek> well done!
[15:34] <mvo> lol
[15:34] <ev> ship it!
[15:34] <bdmurray> bug 855042 seems rather important and is still new but has a fair bit of information
[15:36] <cjwatson> let's have that be Confirmed at least
[15:36] <cjwatson> I have a horrible feeling that's hw-dependent
[15:36] <ev> surely that's a jockey bug
[15:36] <bdmurray> jockey creates its own log file right? would that be worth getting?
[15:37] <ev> stderr, as far as I'm aware
[15:37] <ev> but presumably this is reproduceable outside of ubiquity
[15:37] <bdmurray> apport.hookutils.attach_file_if_exists(report, '/var/log/jockey.log')
[15:37] <ev> so they could just redirect
[15:37] <ev> ah
[15:37] <ev> neato
[15:38] <stgraber> based on the syslog, the hardware seems to use intel graphics and most of the rest seems to be intel too
[15:38] <cjwatson> hmm, why is that asking for confirmation?  we don't pass --confirm
[15:38] <ev> ohhhhh
[15:38] <cjwatson> afaics confirm_action is only called inside an 'if confirm:' guard
[15:38] <ev> I thought we fixed this AGES ago?
[15:39] <cjwatson> oh
[15:39] <cjwatson>             self.set_handler_enable(h_id, 'enable', True)
[15:39] <cjwatson> in check_composite
[15:39] <cjwatson> so that always asks for confirmation regardless (third arg = confirm)
[15:40] <ev> but confirm shouldn't matter? We feed it y\n with LC_ALL set to C
[15:40] <cjwatson> oh, we do?
[15:41] <cjwatson> I see no LC_ALL=C in ./scripts/simple-plugins
[15:41] <ev> ah
[15:41] <ev> I was foolishly looking in plugininstall.py
[15:41] <cjwatson> nor any y/n passing
[15:42] <cjwatson> (and if jockey-text is using stdio there, it'll probably break debconf, too)
[15:43]  * cjwatson wonders why this is duplicated between plugininstall and simple-plugins
[15:44] <ev> indeed, an oversight
[15:44] <ev> oh
[15:44] <ev> because we need to do the latter in the chroot
[15:44] <ev> otherwise bad things happen, according to pitti, but I can't recall exactly what
[15:44] <bdmurray> okay so you two are looking into this now?
[15:44] <slangasek> sounds like they have it triaged :)
[15:44] <slangasek> other bugs?
[15:45] <bdmurray> bug 861303 recently reported by scottk
[15:45] <ev> (sidebar, scripts/simple-plugins should die in a fire)
[15:45] <bdmurray> the title is wrong / misleading
[15:46] <slangasek> very strange
[15:47] <slangasek> anyone have any guesses why python modules would suddenly be unable to resolve symbols in a package build?
[15:47] <barry> slangasek: which symbols?  all of them? :)
[15:48] <slangasek> barry: Py_InitModule4
[15:48] <barry> slangasek: i was afraid you might say that.  now i have to remember which package i fixed something similar in
[15:48] <slangasek> barry: cool; will you follow up on the bug?
[15:48] <barry> slangasek: 861303, right?
[15:49] <slangasek> barry: yep
[15:49] <barry> slangasek: will do
[15:50] <bdmurray> the other 2 I'm looking at are more long term the traceback in bug 850482 is causing some incorrect duplicate marking
[15:50] <bdmurray> I'm wondering if there is a way to make that error more verbose to prevent this incorrect duplicate marking
[15:51] <mvo> I can look into that after the meeting, maybe need to just append the pkgname to the error string
[15:51] <bdmurray> mvo: okay thanks!
[15:52] <bdmurray> finally bug 69176 (not a typo) ;-)
[15:52]  * slangasek nods
[15:52] <bdmurray> I recently found a ubiquity bug regarding bad sectors when trying to use ntfsresize
[15:53] <bdmurray> while there aren't a lot of these it seems like it might be helpful to deal with this situation better
[15:53] <slangasek> kinda hard to get bad sector notification into the GUI, because there's no clear back channel for this... anyone have any clever ideas about how to handle that one?
[15:53] <cjwatson> I have some preliminary work for talking to external fs tools in a smarter way
[15:54] <cjwatson> this becomes more urgent for parted 3.0 because it drops the buggy and unmaintained filesystem code there
[15:54]  * doko just came back
[15:54] <cjwatson> but there's no way it'll be in place for oneiric
[15:54] <cjwatson> mostly I'm focusing on fixing the lack of decent progress output on many mkfs/resize ops in the installer
[15:54] <cjwatson> but I think it could probably be used to handle other problems too
[15:55]  * slangasek waves to doko
[15:55] <bdmurray> right of course I was thinking of targetting it for P
[15:55] <cjwatson> yeah; still quite a bit to go but that might be realistic
[15:55] <slangasek> cool
[15:55] <slangasek> thanks, bdmurray
[15:56] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:56] <slangasek> anything else before we all turn into pumpkins?
[15:56] <cjwatson> FWIW the bug list I'm tracking for release meetings is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-mgr-o-tracking-bugs.html
[15:56] <ev> I have two things. One, lets talk about integration tests at UDS.  That is, what would it take to fire off the ubiquity test harness when someone uploads GTK+ (run all the unit tests for any reverse deps for the package being built)?
[15:57] <ev> And two, http://www.vagrantup.com - VirtualBox + puppet/chef - great for working on things that you at some point want IS to provision, but can't bother waiting on RTs
[15:57] <barry> slangasek: hopefully not 1487 lb pumpkins
[15:57] <ev> especially when you're working with others, as you just pass around the config
[15:58] <slangasek> ev: integration tests> can you talk to Pete to make sure QA is covering this topic at UDS?
[15:59] <ev> slangasek: will do
[15:59] <slangasek> ev: vagrantup - that only helps when you have the local hardware resources to provision it yourself, I guess? :)
[15:59] <cjwatson> I've got IS to give me an rsync module on cocoplum accessible from lillypilly so that I can have an all-arches dists/ mirror there
[15:59] <ev> well, it's a virtual machine
[15:59] <cjwatson> this will let us have all-arches rmadison and start moving various archive tools off cocoplum when they only need Packages/Sources
[16:00] <cjwatson> and reduce the ssh-with-restricted-keys madness for a bunch of stsuff
[16:00] <cjwatson> planning on spending a bit of time doing that after final freeze
[16:00] <slangasek> ev: right, but you need to have hardware with enough idle cpu and disk to provision the vms for the jobs you're doing, I guess
[16:02] <slangasek> cjwatson: lillypilly> very nice
[16:02] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 28 16:02:49 2011 UTC.
[16:02] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-28-15.03.moin.txt
[16:02] <slangasek> thanks, everyone!
[16:02] <barry> thanks!
[16:03] <mvo> thanks
[16:03] <stgraber> thanks
[16:06] <jhunt> thanks
[16:08] <ev> slangasek: true
[16:08] <ev> thanks!
[17:00]  * Ursinha looks around
[17:00] <jibel> ~ô~
[17:00] <Ursinha> :)
[17:00] <bdmurray> \o/
[17:00] <gema> o/
[17:00] <nuclearbob> howdy
[17:01] <Ursinha> chair is jibel, right?
[17:01]  * charlie-tca waves
[17:02] <jibel> Ursinha, right
[17:03] <jibel> pedro_'s joined us. Lets start meeting
[17:03] <jibel> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA Team
[17:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 28 17:03:20 2011 UTC.  The chair is jibel. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:03] <Ursinha> jibel, useful stuff here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/Chairing#Handy_commands
[17:03] <Ursinha> copy, paste and be happy
[17:03] <Ursinha> :)
[17:03] <pedro_> uh just in time ;-)
[17:03] <jibel> #topic Previous Actions
[17:04] <jibel> there are 3 actions from previous meeting
[17:04] <jibel> Ursinha to chase checkbox package problem with ara
[17:04] <Ursinha> I have two of my own
[17:05] <jibel> ^ Ursinha what about checkbox package problem ?
[17:05] <Ursinha> the checkbox package resolved itself when the dependencies reached the ppa
[17:05] <Ursinha> so I didn't have to bother ara with that
[17:05] <jibel> great, thanks for that.
[17:05] <jibel> gema to create a starting point (page or something) to discuss and note automation testing for Ubuntu
[17:05] <jibel> gema, any news ?
[17:06] <gema> I created a wiki and added one item as an example
[17:06] <gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/CommunityFeedback
[17:06] <Ursinha> yay
[17:06] <gema> I will be adding more stuff and it would be good to start getting feedback from other people too
[17:06] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:06] <gema> this is your chance to complain big time!
[17:07] <jibel> charlie-tca, we are all ears
[17:07] <gema> yep
[17:07] <charlie-tca> gema: I reviewed the testing doc, but I think I forgot to send the email
[17:07] <charlie-tca> It looks good to get started
[17:08] <gema> ok
[17:08] <gema> any feedback you have send it to me
[17:08] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:08] <gema> ..
[17:08] <jibel> thanks gema
[17:09] <jibel> Last action from previous week: Ursinha to add irc commands to the next chair
[17:09] <Ursinha> I did that, it's in the Chairing link
[17:09] <Ursinha> ..
[17:10] <jibel> Ursinha, cool thanks, will try that at the end of the meeting
[17:10] <jibel> #topic Community Efforts/Testing  jibel
[17:11] <jibel> Last week was Oneiric Beta 2 testing
[17:11] <jibel> Testing report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricBeta2TestReport
[17:12] <jibel> Participation was as high as Beta1 and we wish it will be higher for the final release.
[17:12] <jibel> The list of bugs found during the milestone is at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/report
[17:12] <jibel> List of bugs found during previous milestones:
[17:12] <jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/iso-testing-open-all.html
[17:13] <jibel> Tomorrow is final freeze, you can help with testing daily ISOs and make sure that nothing release critical made its way to the images.
[17:13] <jibel> If you find something then raise a red flag.
[17:13] <jibel> Other topic on community testing: laptop testing
[17:13] <jibel> primes2h sent a call for testing last Friday
[17:13] <jibel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2011-September/001689.html
[17:13] <jibel> You can help there too.
[17:13] <jibel> For laptop testing you'll need to run oneiric Beta 2 on your laptop and report results to the tracker.
[17:14] <jibel> that's all from me
[17:14] <jibel> any question/comment/complaints ?
[17:15] <jibel> moving on
[17:15] <jibel> #topic Automated/Systems Testing
[17:15] <jibel> anyone ?
[17:15] <gema> nothing from me
[17:15] <gema> ..
[17:15] <nuclearbob> I'm working on the qrt scripts
[17:16] <nuclearbob> making changes where necessary to get them all working on natty, then looking into implementing a system to note different dependencies for different versions, and ensure they work right on the lts versions
[17:16] <nuclearbob> we'll be doing more design on that at a session at uds
[17:17] <nuclearbob> that's all I've got for now
[17:17] <jibel> nice thanks. is there a blueprint registered for UDS so people interested can subscribe ?
[17:17] <jibel> nuclearbob, ^
[17:18] <nuclearbob> not yet, I'll be working with pgraner on that later
[17:18] <jibel> ok, keep us informed
[17:18] <nuclearbob> will do
[17:18] <jibel> on the automation side, boot speed testing is back
[17:19] <jibel> you see the report at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/
[17:19] <jibel> patrickmw, could tell more than me so that's all I can say for today.
[17:20] <bdmurray> wow that's pretty
[17:20] <Ursinha> indeed
[17:21] <jibel> it is, thanks to bjf artistic talent
[17:21] <bdmurray> what‽ an artistic kernel dev
[17:22] <gema> bdmurray: kernels are pure art...
[17:22] <jibel> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status bdmurray pedro_ Ursinha
[17:22] <Ursinha> nothing to report; lots in progress, nothing completed
[17:22] <Ursinha> ..
[17:23] <bdmurray> uploaded new apport hooks for plymouth and debian-installer
[17:23] <bdmurray> wrote a few additional html reports of bug tasks
[17:23] <bdmurray> at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/
[17:24] <Ursinha> \o/
[17:24] <bdmurray> went to O'Reilly Strata conference regarding BIG data
[17:24] <bdmurray> lots of interesting stuff regarding data visualization etc...
[17:24] <bdmurray> discovered an issue with bugpatterns not working because OriginalTitle is not known when an apport bug is being reported - it is only defined when downloading  a bug title
[17:24] <bdmurray> fixed all existing patterns and emailed bug control
[17:25] <bdmurray> that's all
[17:25] <pedro_> so besides normal bug triage, I've wrote a few bug patterns for different packages (can't remember the list so better check the changelog)
[17:26] <pedro_> and i've also looking at old bugs with a fixed upstream task so start closing those in our side (Ubuntu)
[17:26] <pedro_> seems we have almost a ~1000 of those right now
[17:26] <pedro_> only on the desktop set...
[17:26] <Ursinha> how many did you clean?
[17:27] <Ursinha> up
[17:27] <bdmurray> pedro_: I wonder if there is some way to automate that
[17:27] <pedro_> Ursinha, I'm manually checking those right now, so is not  a fast process
[17:27] <Ursinha> I believe we can automate that, yes
[17:28] <Ursinha> pedro_, want to discuss that outside the meeting, right after that?
[17:28] <bdmurray> yes please
[17:28] <Ursinha> awesome
[17:28] <pedro_> bdmurray, right , an automated process would be cool, and it would also work for other packages with upstream project
[17:28] <Ursinha> :)
[17:28] <pedro_> yeah lets discuss that later
[17:28] <pedro_> so nothing else from me
[17:28] <pedro_> ..
[17:29] <jibel> any question ?
[17:30] <jibel> #topic Other topics
[17:30] <jibel> anyone ?
[17:34] <gema> ..
[17:34] <jibel> [TOPIC] Chair Selection - $ shuf -e  pedro_ Ursinha bdmurray nuclearbob gema charlie-tca  | head -1
[17:34] <jibel> and ? where is the magic ?
[17:35] <charlie-tca> At least it tells you something now?
[17:35] <jibel> nuclearbob
[17:35] <nuclearbob> all right
[17:35] <Ursinha> jibel, ah, I recall you giving me the mission of implementing this as a bot command
[17:36] <jibel> Ursinha, no problem, I think there are more useful things to do at this stage of the release
[17:37] <charlie-tca> +1
[17:37] <jibel> #action nuclearbob to chair next meeting
[17:37] <meetingology> ACTION: nuclearbob to chair next meeting
[17:37] <jibel> 3
[17:37] <jibel> 2
[17:37] <jibel> 1
[17:38] <jibel> thank you all for attending
[17:38] <jibel> #endmeeting
[17:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 28 17:38:21 2011 UTC.
[17:38] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-28-17.03.moin.txt
[17:38] <charlie-tca> jibel: thank you for chairing.
[17:38] <pedro_> jibel, thanks!
[17:38] <charlie-tca> Ursinha: thank you for updating the wiki on chairing
[17:38] <Ursinha> charlie-tca, no problem!
[17:38] <Ursinha> thanks for chairing jibel


[08:41] <dholbach> good morning
[01:15] <waxfactor2nd> hi
[01:15] <waxfactor2nd> help

[01:15] <waxfactor2nd>  			 		 		 		 		hi ive just installed the nvidia driver via automatix but now i only can choose 640*480 in the screen resolution menu. this is a 1280*1024 screen so it is very anoying. how can i make it back to 1280*1024. it is a 6600gt and im running edgy
[01:15] <waxfactor2nd> hi can anyone help
[01:16] <Hobbsee> waxfactor2nd: try #ubuntu
[01:16] <Hobbsee> waxfactor2nd: this isnt the support channel
[01:16] <waxfactor2nd> sry
[01:48] <freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
[01:48] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 09 Jan 06:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 23:00: LoCo Team | 10 Jan 00:00: Forum Council | 10 Jan 05:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jan 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:22] <raphink> @schedule Paris
[09:22] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 08 Jan 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 16:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 17:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 22:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:31] <ryanakca> @schedule toronto
[09:31] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 08 Jan 17:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 10:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 11:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 16:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[11:00] <toma> Hobbsee: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:01] <raphink> hop
[11:01] <Riddell> good morning Friends
[11:01] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[11:01] <toma> hi all
[11:01] <toma> hi Tonio_
[11:01] <raphink> hi Riddell
[11:01] <Zerlinna> hello all
[11:01] <mhb> hi everyone
[11:01] <Jucato> hi --all
[11:01] <fabo> hi all
[11:01] <Riddell> yes, lets do names, we have some new people
[11:01] <Hobbsee> hey toma!
[11:01] <raphink> who am I
[11:01] <Hobbsee> argh...phone was not on silent...
[11:01] <fdoving> hi.
[11:01] <kwwii> howdy guys and girls
[11:02] <Hobbsee> hey Riddell
[11:02] <Hobbsee> (yay for ircing from bed :P )
[11:02] <toma> wow, what a people
[11:02] <sebas> Impressive.
[11:02] <Lure> kubuntu team is growing - great!
[11:03] <Riddell> I think by the number of people we have contributing now, 2007 is going to be a great year for Kubuntu
[11:03] <Hobbsee> Riddell: can we start from the bottom of our agenda?
[11:03] <Hobbsee> Riddell: indeed :)
[11:03] <jpiccolo> did herd1 get upgraded to a new version?
[11:03] <toma> Hobbsee: no
[11:03] <Riddell> Hobbsee: we could start with memberships
[11:03] <Hobbsee> oh yeah
[11:03] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:03] <toma> before i vote on others, let others vote on me
[11:03] <Hobbsee> even better idea
[11:03] <Tonio_> kwwii: hehe
[11:03] <Hobbsee> jpiccolo: no
[11:03] <raphink> that's a guess toma
[11:03] <Riddell> ok, we'll do toma first
[11:04] <raphink> :)
[11:04] <Tonio_> yup
[11:04] <toma> raphink: yep ;-)
[11:04] <Riddell> toma: care to introduce your item?
[11:04] <ryanakca> back
[11:04] <toma> In may we started the kubuntu council. You asked me to take a seat for KDE. I accepted that, but made the remark that it was for half a year instead of a year.
[11:04] <toma> So now is the question up, do I stay in the council or not.
[11:04] <toma> I can not say I've done a lot for kubuntu the last couple months, but i've been around a lot and that's what Riddell asked me to do for that seat.
[11:04] <toma> I don't expect any changes in my activities, so if you think that's fine, I'm happy to stay for the remaining months. But i can also understand if you want to swap with someone else, there are other great kde people in the channel regulary.... Who also do more for Kubuntu then I do at this moment.
[11:04] <toma> Normally I would now leave this room so you can discuss it, but that does not make any sense....
[11:04] <Owdgit> lets get on with meeting
[11:04] <Tonio_> toma: first point is : what is your wish about that ?
[11:04] <Hobbsee> Owdgit: ....people are thinking and reading
[11:05] <Riddell> I can't remember what we said the full term would be for kubuntu council people
[11:05] <toma> 1 year
[11:05] <Hobbsee> 12 months
[11:05] <toma> Tonio_: ?
[11:05] <Tonio_> toma: yes ? it is not obvious that you would like to continue :)
[11:05] <raphink> toma: do you wish to stay or give the responsability to someone else?
[11:06] <Hobbsee> who's on the kcc at the moment, sorry?  /me looks on LP
[11:06] <toma> Tonio_: well, the job description is not that clear, so I'm not so sure i'm doing The Right Thing, or that you expect more from me
[11:06] <Riddell> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-council/+members
[11:06] <Hobbsee> found it :)
[11:06] <Riddell> which says it started in August, but that can't be right
[11:06] <Owdgit> sorry thought this was a ubuntu meeting
[11:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes...we got the LP team a lot later
[11:06] <manchicken> (where's the bleedin' sound-track to this meeting?)
[11:06] <raphink> Hobbsee: i think it hasn't changed since it was founded
[11:06] <Tonio_> toma: I don't expect more at all
[11:07] <Hobbsee> raphink: the team, or the job descriptoin?
[11:07] <raphink> Owdgit: this is a kubuntu meeting
[11:07] <toma> Tonio_: so if I'm not doing enough, i'm happy if someone else takes my seat
[11:07] <raphink> Hobbsee: the team
[11:07] <toma> Tonio_: ok
[11:07] <Hobbsee> ah, yes
[11:07] <Tonio_> toma: I just would like to know if you'd be happy to continue, or if you think someone else would be better to rotate the positions :)
[11:07] <Lure> toma: you are fine - most of kcc work was anyhow membership (which were not that many anyhow)
[11:07] <Tonio_> toma: there is nothing hidden in that question
[11:08] <Lure> toma: I would suggest that we approve you for another 6 month and then we can reshuffle whole kcc
[11:08] <toma> Tonio_: I would love to stay, unless you expect more than what I do now.
[11:08] <Owdgit> toma: looks like you are out!
[11:08] <Tonio_> Lure: that's exactly my feeling
[11:08] <raphink> good idea Lure
[11:08] <kwwii> I agree as well
[11:09] <Riddell> Owdgit: please be quiet
[11:09] <Tonio_> toma: no you've done it, been there everytime, that's all we expect I think
[11:09] <raphink> same here
[11:10] <Hobbsee> of course, the question of "who would want to be on this team" is a good one
[11:10] <raphink> I'm happy to keep toma if he wants to
[11:10] <Riddell> if we started the kubuntu council in May I propose we keep toma on until may and review the council membership then
[11:10] <allee> toma++
[11:10] <Owdgit> Riddell: Why?
[11:10] <Riddell> toma: are you happy with that?
[11:10] <Tonio_> +1 for me
[11:10] <Hobbsee> Owdgit: because you're disrupting the meeting
[11:10] <freeflying> toma: +1
[11:10] <somerville32> +1
[11:10] <raphink> Owdgit: because this meeting is supposed to be constructive
[11:10] <sebas> toma++
[11:10] <toma> oki! thanks guys
[11:10] <fdoving> toma++
[11:11] <Hobbsee> Riddell: the only other person, currently, who i'd think for being on the kcc is Lure, but i dont know how he feels on such things
[11:11] <raphink> I agree with Hobbsee too
[11:11] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I think we should save him for May :)
[11:11] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yup, he'd be an ideal candidate in May
[11:11] <Hobbsee> that, and that i think that getting ideas into kubuntu is pretty easy, you dont have to be on the kcc to do it.
[11:12] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:12] <raphink> :)
[11:12] <Riddell> of course not, the council is just some people we trust to make good decisions when we have something that needs a vote
[11:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yup the kcc is only there to take debating decisions
[11:12] <Lure> Hobbsee: thanks for support, but no hurry ;-)
[11:12] <Tonio_> s/take/make (english horrible today sorry)
[11:12] <Hobbsee> Riddell: exactly
[11:12] <Riddell> let's move on to memberships
[11:12] <ryanakca> :)
[11:12] <Riddell> Zerlinna: care to go first?
[11:12] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: most of us will understand horrible english as opposed to french :P
[11:13] <Zerlinna> Riddell: ok :)
[11:13] <Zerlinna> Riddell: should I just paste my introduction?
[11:13] <Riddell> Zerlinna: please do
[11:13] <Zerlinna> My name is Mirjam Wckerlin and I'm swiss living Germany. I'm the team contact for the growing German Kubuntu Community at www.kubuntu-de.net. I presented Kubuntu at events (like LinuxTag 2006 in Germany) and did various translations like the translation of UWN (from issue 24) into German, or the French translation of the official Kubuntu Flyer. I also help in the german forum and write a blog with howtos and news about kubuntu since
[11:13] <Zerlinna> October 2005. In the future, I plan to apply with the German Kubuntu Community as an official loco-team, doing more events and translations, help people in getting involved and support women in linux as a member of Ubuntu Women.
[11:13] <Zerlinna> my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirjamWaeckerlin and launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~waeckerlin
[11:15] <Riddell> it's often surprising how much of a community we have over in #kubuntu-de
[11:15] <kwwii> considering all the problems it really is amazing
[11:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah, kde may help on that point :)
[11:15] <fdoving> .de likes kde :)
[11:15] <Riddell> and it's great to have someone from there around in #kubuntu-devel to keep us in contact
[11:15] <Zerlinna> Riddell: the forums at kubuntu-de.net has over 5000 registered useres, and we have a team of 20 very active members (growing)
[11:15] <Hobbsee> wow
[11:16] <Riddell> very impressive
[11:16] <sebas> Wow.
[11:16] <sebas> Ow, I know half of them ;-)
[11:16] <raphink> haha
[11:16] <Riddell> well, I've met Zerlinna, anyone else have questions?
[11:16] <ryanakca> nice, lol
[11:16] <raphink> I'm happy with Zerlinna's work
[11:16] <sebas> I've briefly met her at Linuxtag, I think
[11:16] <kwwii> I support Zerlinna as well
[11:16] <raphink> she's a lively supporter of Kubuntu and open-source in general
[11:16] <raphink> :)
[11:16] <Zerlinna> sebas: you did :)
[11:16] <Lure> Zerlinna has very useful kubuntu oriented blog - would be nice to have it on Planet Ubuntu (when she become member)
[11:16] <sebas> Right, at the exit?
[11:16] <Tonio_> same for me, I had the pleasure to meet you at linuxtag and know your work
[11:17] <Hobbsee> Zerlinna: what were some of the challenges to get your mother switched to kubuntu, and how did you overcome them?
[11:17] <Lure> not many kobuntu blog entries there
[11:17] <Zerlinna> Hobbsee: the biggest challenge was to convice my dad that she wouldn't have problems with it
[11:17] <Hobbsee> oh yeah.  blog on planet.  *adds to todo*
[11:18] <Hobbsee> Zerlinna: interesting
[11:18] <sebas> Are Ubuntu Member entitled to be aggregated via planet.ubuntu or isn't that formalised?
[11:18] <Riddell> sebas: they are yes
[11:18] <Riddell> the planet config is held in bzr that members can write to
[11:18] <sebas> Then why is planet.ubuntu more or less completely not planet.kubuntu?
[11:19] <kwwii> hehe
[11:19] <Zerlinna> Hobbsee: I just conviced them by installing ichthux and promsising them that I would reinstall windows if they didn't like it :)
[11:19] <Riddell> Zerlinna get a +1 from me for great community leadership
[11:19] <allee> Zerlinna++
[11:19] <Hobbsee> Zerlinna: ahhh....smart.  scary for the idea of promising to reinstall windows though...
[11:19] <kwwii> sebas: why does kubuntu.de have so much support and no loco team? (we'll get the that later)
[11:19] <Tonio_> +1 for me too
[11:19] <toma> Zerlinna: What's the secret plan to get more get people involved?
[11:20] <sebas> toma: KDE4 :P
[11:20] <raphink> haha
[11:20] <raphink> sebas: when is that?
[11:20] <Tonio_> sebas: ;)
[11:20] <toma> Sebas: Glad you did not say kde4.0 ;-)
[11:20] <manchicken> My wife switched to kubuntu.
[11:20] <Hobbsee> speaking of kde4...the guides for new devs are great, just need more added to them :)
[11:20] <manchicken> Once you get them over the initial "mysteriousness" of trying another operating system, it's pretty easy.
[11:21] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: have a link?
[11:21] <raphink> the least used to windows they are, the easiest to switch to linux manchicken
[11:21] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: to my blog?  developernew.kde.org
[11:21] <Tonio_> manchicken: yeah it was the same problem with my gf
[11:21] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Except that Qt designer for Qt4 doesn't import .glade files, and there's no info anywhere on how to do that.
[11:21] <Riddell> I think that's a positive vote for Zerlinna, congratulations
[11:21] <Hobbsee> manchicken: ah
[11:21] <Tonio_> once she admitted not only windows was able to run the computer, everything was very easy
[11:21] <allee> Zerlinna: congrats
[11:21] <fdoving> congrats zerlinna. :)
[11:21] <Zerlinna> thank you  :D
[11:21] <Riddell> let's not get too far off topic
[11:21] <raphink> welcome on board, Zerlinna
[11:21] <Tonio_> Zerlinna: welcome aboard
[11:22] <manchicken> Yay Zerlinna!
[11:22] <Hobbsee> yay Zerlinna :)
[11:22] <Riddell> ryanakca: you're up next
[11:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: can we do loco teams, or is that up to the CC?
[11:22] <mhb> Zerlinna: congrats
[11:22] <ryanakca> ooh, great :)
[11:22] <Lure> Zerlinna: congrat - and please add your blog to Planet Ubuntu
[11:22] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: CC
[11:22] <Hobbsee> right
[11:22] <ryanakca> btw, congrats Zerlinna
[11:22] <freeflying> Zerlinna: congrats
[11:22] <ryanakca> My name is Ryan Kavanagh and I'm a canadian student. I'm a member of QA, founded the Classroom along with NUN, and am an active teacher. I have also done some translation into french on Rosetta, helped install kubuntu on some computers and the owners out with any difficulties they had. I have a couple packages uploaded, and am currently working on one. I would like to package some more KDE apps, maybe help with a bit of programming (I'm
[11:22] <ryanakca> learning python). I would like to continue bug triaging and running Classroom.
[11:22] <ryanakca> My Wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RyanKavanagh and my launchpad page is https://launchpad.net/~ryanakca
[11:22] <Zerlinna> Lure I'll love to :)
[11:22] <Riddell> Hobbsee: we can do whatever we want, it just depends on who you want to listen
[11:23] <Hobbsee> Riddell: hehe, right
[11:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah ?
[11:23] <Riddell> oh la la, another francophone
[11:23] <ryanakca> Riddell: oui :)
[11:23] <Hobbsee> Riddell: this one plays the bagpipes though :P
[11:24] <Tonio_> ryanakca: trs bonne nouvelle ca :)
[11:24] <manchicken> OOH!!  GPG tutorials are much needed.
[11:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: we should think about switching the official language of #kubuntu-devel
[11:24] <ryanakca> Riddell: yes, http://rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/Creatively_Blocked-rec1.ogg
[11:24] <toma> ryanakca: can you tell a bit about ubuntu ca?
[11:24] <ryanakca> Tonio_: lol
[11:24] <manchicken> I love the little doccies.
[11:24] <mhb> ryanakca: how many is a couple (packages)?
[11:24] <raphink> ryanakca: that's a pretty good page :)
[11:24] <toma> qa
[11:24] <ryanakca> raphink: ty
[11:24] <raphink> mhb: I was told a couple is two
[11:25] <raphink> mhb: but so many things about changing aboug relationships it seems
[11:25] <Hobbsee> raphink: a couple is two, yes.
[11:25] <Hobbsee> a few is three or more
[11:25] <manchicken> ryanakca: GnuPG is a little tricky for folks who have never used encryption before.  My wife and I had a rough time setting it up in kopete.  More documentation would have been quite nice.  I'm glad to see someone's doing it.
[11:25] <ryanakca> toma: Ubuntu Ca recently became a LoCo team. They often meet at LinuxCaffe in Toronto (since, iirc, most members are in Toronto). However, since I live 3 hours away, I can't attend...
[11:25] <ryanakca> We also answer questions on out mailing list
[11:26] <mhb> raphink: I wanted to know the exact number, but if you say 2
[11:26] <ryanakca> manchicken: Oooh? never knew that you could use GPG in kopete...
[11:26] <fdoving> toma: qa? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa
[11:26] <raphink> yes you can ryanakca
[11:26] <toma> ryanakca: ok, want to know more, but thats ot ;-)
[11:26] <toma> fdoving: thnaks
[11:26] <manchicken> ryanakca: Yeah.  My wife and I use it when I'm in the office and we need to discuss banking things.
[11:26] <manchicken> ryanakca: It's a beautiful thing.
[11:26] <ryanakca> nice
[11:27] <manchicken> (which reminds me, I have to reimport her keys for her since the move from SuSE to kubuntu...)
[11:27] <ryanakca> https://launchpad.net/~ryanakca/+packages
[11:27] <raphink> so you have 3 packages
[11:27] <Riddell> ryanakca: interesting to see launchpad answers in use there, how well answered are queries on it?
[11:27] <raphink> how do you choose the packages you made?
[11:27] <raphink> s/made/make/
[11:27] <fabo> ryanakca: Try to merge Keep <- could you be more verbose ? :)
[11:28] <ryanakca> Riddell: queries on...
[11:28] <raphink> ryanakca: how do you choose the packages you make?
[11:28] <Lure> ryanakca packaged eqonomize which I use ;-)
[11:28] <fdoving> Riddell: not much kubuntu-specific questions.. i try to keep up with it too. :)
[11:28] <ryanakca> raphink: I choose stuff that I find would be usefull, eqonomize so that I can manage my money, or try to,
[11:28] <kwwii> for my part, I'll say that ryanakca has been active and helpful with art-related stuff
[11:29] <raphink> I see that you've been keeping your packages up-to-date ryanakca
[11:29] <raphink> ryanakca: do you also work with Debian for that?
[11:29] <Riddell> ryanakca: I mean does it get much use in general, and do questions usually get answered?
[11:29] <ryanakca> gnome-clipboard-daemon because people were complaining about not being able to keep clipboard stuff after they close your app (maybe it was fixed and it was just an old page, dunno), etc
[11:30] <ryanakca> raphink: I worked with djpig for doc-linux-html (he's in charge of the package for debian)
[11:30] <raphink> nice
[11:30] <ryanakca> Riddell: sorry, not sure I understand what you mean... the support requests, like https://answers.launchpad.net/~ryanakca/+tickets ?
[11:31] <Riddell> ryanakca: yes
[11:32] <ryanakca> Riddell: yes, they are used, not as much as forums or irc, but still used. From what I see, 8 questions / requests were created today, and yes, most get answered :) https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[11:32] <Riddell> groovy
[11:32] <ryanakca> :D
[11:32] <Tonio_> interesting
[11:32] <Riddell> ryanakca gets a +1 from me
[11:32] <raphink> +1 from me too
[11:32] <raphink> keep up the good work
[11:32] <allee> +1 too
[11:32] <ryanakca> raphink: will do
[11:32] <pinheiro> heya
[11:33] <toma> +1
[11:33] <Hobbsee> +1
[11:33] <Tonio_> +1 for me, based on good malone activity and qa in general
[11:33] <kwwii> +1
[11:33] <Zerlinna> +1
[11:33] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: will the idea pool ever get anywhere?
[11:33] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: yes, I added a footnote just for you, just a sec, I'll paste it :)
[11:33] <Riddell> welcome to membership ryanakca
[11:33] <Tonio_> welcome aboard ryanakca
[11:33] <mhb> congratulations ryanakca
[11:33] <fdoving> congrats ryanakca :)
[11:33] <Riddell> probably the youngest member we have
[11:33] <raphink> well done ryanakca
[11:33] <manchicken> w00t for ryanakca!
[11:33] <Lure> ryanakca: congrats!
[11:33] <allee> ryanakca congrats
[11:33] <Hobbsee> ooh, it grew
[11:34] <freeflying> ryanakca: congrats
[11:34] <ryanakca> IdeaPool: From what I've been told, the idea pool is looked at relatively frequently. Most things in canonical are either what Canonical Mark wants and can pay for or what volunteers are willing to do. However, the saying "talk is cheap" can also be applied to adding something to a wiki. If suggestions aren't backed up with action, it is unlikely that they will be implemented. If someone has a really good idea that canonical would love or if
[11:34] <ryanakca> someone willing to implement something sees something great there, it might be implemented. ([WWW]  http://www.ubuntu.com/developers/bounties references IdeaPool)
[11:34] <fabo> ryanakca: congrats !
[11:34] <ryanakca> thanks!
[11:34] <Zerlinna> felicitations ryanakca ;)
[11:34] <kwwii> now he'll give us even more trouble about artwork!
[11:34] <kwwii> :p
[11:34] <ryanakca> merci Zerlinna
[11:34] <ryanakca> kwwii: lol, when does work on artwork start again? or has it already?
[11:34] <Zerlinna> kwwii: isn't that your problem? :P
[11:34] <toma> o and fdoving and nixternal: congrats on your svn kde accounts today !
[11:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: jpatrick
[11:34] <nixternal> oh shot
[11:34] <kwwii> ryanakca: nobody knows
[11:34] <ryanakca> Riddell: I think I am :)
[11:34] <nixternal> thanks toma
[11:34] <raphink> jpatrick is surely the youngest :)
[11:34] <nixternal> i totally forgot about the meeting :(
[11:34] <fdoving> toma: thanks, again :)
[11:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: *grin* - you're only 35 min late, dont worry :P
[11:35] <kwwii> nixternal: lazy americans
[11:35] <ryanakca> nixternal: lol
[11:35] <Riddell> anyone else wanting to be considered for membership today?
[11:35] <sebas> Uuh, I
[11:35] <raphink> hi nixternal :)
[11:35] <nixternal> hiya
[11:35] <nixternal> hahaha kwwii
[11:35] <allee> and congrats to Hobbsee and Tonio_ being now able to commit to kde-extras repo ;)
[11:35] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:35] <sebas> Didn't prepare anything, but I'm flexible :)
[11:35] <toma> sebas: go fot it
[11:35] <manchicken> Nice.
[11:35] <Riddell> sebas: do you have a wiki page?
[11:36] <sebas> Sure.
[11:36] <kwwii> sebas is my hero
[11:36] <manchicken> I've only got small kopete commits there ^_^
[11:36] <Tonio_> allee: ah ? :) I haven't been there for a month, we need to talk about that, I'm interested :)
[11:36] <manchicken> I ported the SMS plugin and a mod to the meta-contacts for KDE/Qt4.
[11:36] <manchicken> But that was a few months ago.
[11:36] <allee> Tonio_: sure!
[11:36] <sebas> I didn't add anything substantial on the wiki, or Launchpad other than that I'm working on guidance. I've got a website + blog at http://vizzzion.org though.
[11:36] <Riddell> sebas: what's your launchpad user name?
[11:36] <sebas> Working on Kubuntu since I ran into Riddell at FOSDEM three or so years ago.
[11:37] <Hobbsee> "bang...splat"
[11:37] <sebas> https://launchpad.net/~sebas-kde
[11:37] <fabo> half of kubuntu.de knows sebas ;)
[11:37] <Riddell> ooh, that was Le Roi, lots of quaffing there
[11:37] <nixternal> sebas: you aren't a member?
[11:37] <sebas> I'm not a member, right.
[11:37] <seaLne> nixternal: yeah thats what i thought :)
[11:37] <nixternal> holy smokes i did not know that
[11:37] <nixternal> i figured you were
[11:37] <sebas> I've got to admit that I do not join every meeting, only when time permits.
[11:38] <sebas> And I'm open for questions
[11:38] <nixternal> just like ryanakca and Zerlinna, i thought they were members already as well
[11:38] <sebas> Riddell: Right, when you told me that you were doing Kubuntu :-)
[11:38] <Jucato> yeah me too... always presumed they were :)
[11:38] <nixternal> man i am so out of touch :)
[11:38] <Zerlinna> lol nixternal
[11:39] <nixternal> congrats Zerlinna btw on your membership!
[11:39] <manchicken> heh
[11:39] <toma> i can add that sebas is a great and respected member of KDE and I think he is a great guy.
[11:39] <Riddell> I know sebas well, I don't really have any questions
[11:39] <Zerlinna> nixternal: thanks :)
[11:39] <nixternal> didn't sebas take a punch as well for the love of Kubuntu at the Paris sprint?
[11:39] <nixternal> :)
[11:39] <Riddell> I suspect most people know sebas well
[11:39] <kwwii> he saved my life!!!!
[11:39] <nixternal> see
[11:39] <allee> yes
[11:39] <nixternal> +1000000
[11:39] <Riddell> nixternal: no, he took a kick in the face
[11:39] <nixternal> ;p
[11:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure, no question for me
[11:39] <pinheiro> sebas rules
[11:39] <nixternal> haha Riddell
[11:39] <sebas> Wow :o
[11:40] <Tonio_> he has been so helpfull till now..........
[11:40] <nixternal> i dont' think i can vote though, but i did :)
[11:40] <Riddell> so +1 for saving the entire kubuntu development team from Paris race riots
[11:40] <toma> sebas: +1, but you need to fill the wiki ;-)
[11:40] <fabo> sebas++
[11:40] <allee> +1
[11:40] <nixternal> hahaha
[11:40] <Hobbsee> +1
[11:40] <kwwii> but make him shave if he wants to join
[11:40] <Tonio_> sebas: obviously +1 for me
[11:40] <raphink> +1
[11:40] <Hobbsee> sebas: protect us in spain too please :P
[11:40] <nixternal> congrats sebas!!!
[11:40] <Tonio_> sebas: membership is better than a kick in the face !
[11:40] <nixternal> lol
[11:40] <Riddell> congratulations sebas
[11:40] <allee> sebas: please sign CoC
[11:40] <raphink> Tonio_: I'm going to write that somewhere
[11:40] <nixternal> who's next?
[11:40] <Riddell> anyone else going for membership?
[11:40] <sebas> Merci (to use the new official language :P)
[11:41] <nixternal> Riddell: are you a member?
[11:41] <mhb> congratulations sebas
[11:41] <sebas> allee: ok
[11:41] <nixternal> +1 Riddell
[11:41] <nixternal> ;p
[11:41] <Zerlinna> sebas trs bien ;)
[11:41] <raphink> long time without a post on my blog, your sentence migth be a good subject Tonio_
[11:41] <Tonio_> sebas: bienvenue  bord !
[11:41] <sebas> toma: will do.
[11:41] <Riddell> nixternal: I was the first ubuntu member
[11:41] <manchicken> heh
[11:41] <nixternal> hehe
[11:41] <manchicken> Very nice
[11:41] <toma> sebas: congrats
[11:41] <sebas> C'est une honoire (or something)
[11:41] <manchicken> heh
[11:41] <Tonio_> sebas: honneur
[11:41] <raphink> c'est un plaisir de t'accueillir parmi nous sebas
[11:41] <Tonio_> sebas: that's a good start
[11:41] <toma> anyone else?
[11:41] <allee> congrats sebas
[11:41] <Riddell> let's get on with the agenda then
[11:42] <Tonio_> yup
[11:42] <manchicken> Righto.
[11:42] <Riddell> we have quite a few items, so stay focused folks
[11:42] <Riddell> Hobbsee: did you want to do it in reverse or something?
[11:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, so my stuff's when i'm a little more awake
[11:42] <Riddell> kwwii: ready with your item?
[11:43] <kwwii> yepp
[11:43] <Riddell> kwwii: tell us about it
[11:44] <kwwii> basically, I would like to know what is keeping the de team from going loco
[11:44] <kwwii> it seems that the answer seems to be "why not do it on ubuntu.de"
[11:44] <nixternal> from going crazy?
[11:44] <kwwii> hehe
[11:44] <kwwii> LoCo
[11:44] <nixternal> isn't there a DE LoCo already?
[11:44] <kwwii> a mailing list was denied as well
[11:45] <Riddell> I list any sane kubuntu loco group on kubuntu.org/support.php
[11:45] <fdoving> nixternal: kubuntu LoCo i belive?
[11:45] <nixternal> seeing as I am somehow an admin for the LoCo Enthusiasts group (thanks jono)
[11:45] <Zerlinna> Riddell: true, but then we're not considerated as an "official" team
[11:45] <nixternal> hrmm, Chicago LoCo is an Ubuntu team, but we promote all of the *buntus
[11:45] <Zerlinna> Riddell: e.g. for the shipping
[11:45] <Riddell> and so far that's been fine, most kubuntu local groups are happy working with various levels of indepencence from the ubuntu group, but usually not much
[11:46] <kwwii> well, the domain is being denied them (Julius says it is Jono saying no because it is not official)
[11:46] <kwwii> so how can we make it official?
[11:46] <Riddell> kwwii: they domain is being transfered, the sysadmin did the icann thing today
[11:46] <kwwii> ahhhh...cool :-)
[11:46] <nixternal> jono has to make it official
[11:46] <Riddell> so we'll get that soon (fingers crossed)
[11:46] <kwwii> then I will shut up
[11:46] <nixternal> for LoCo stuff
[11:46] <nixternal> well there you go :)
[11:47] <Riddell> but germany clearly has a separate kubuntu group from the ubuntu one, and I think it's worth having that clarified to stop stuff like the kubuntu-de.org domain squatting
[11:47] <kwwii> when I talked to Julius today we got into a bit of a fight about it
[11:47] <kwwii> ie. I pissed him off
[11:47] <kwwii> then again, who can't I piss off?
[11:47] <Zerlinna> Riddell: I think it would be cool to have a real official kubuntu-team
[11:48] <Riddell> as I said earlier, we can declaire it at this meeting, but that won't make anybody listen who doesn't already care
[11:48] <kwwii> cool, we'll see what happens...if not I'll bring it up again :-)
[11:48] <Riddell> so it really needs to go to the ubuntu community council
[11:48] <Riddell> I'd certainly support having kubuntu-de as an official loco group
[11:49] <Lure> Riddell: we should ask Ubuntu CC if KCC can approve Kubuntu LoCo's
[11:49] <Riddell> I wonder when the next community council meeting is
[11:49] <Lure> Riddell: that would only make sense
[11:49] <Hobbsee> Lure: ubuntu CC is currently up in the air - doesnt have people on it
[11:49] <Zerlinna> Riddell: the problem begins already with the mailing-list.. I made a request for a<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell: when we were going to meet - tomorrow
[11:49] <gnomefreak> Riddell: tomorrow i think
[11:49] <Riddell> ooh, it's tomorrow
[11:49] <Zerlinna> Riddell: and the answer was about "why don't you stick with ubuntu-de"
[11:50] <Riddell> Zerlinna: that is interesting, and something we should fix
[11:50] <toma> yes
[11:50] <fdoving> Zerlinna: and you asked why don't you mix kubuntu-users@ and ubuntu-users@ ? :)
[11:50] <Riddell> so we need someone to propose it to the community council meeting tomorrow
[11:50] <gnomefreak> Riddell: tomorrow at 21:00 UTC
[11:50] <sebas> It's not a good thing rejecting something simple as a mailinglist for an important loco team.
[11:50] <Zerlinna> fdoving: I didn't reply yet ;)
[11:50] <Riddell> Zerlinna: fancy being that someone?
[11:50] <toma> sebas: indeed
[11:50] <Riddell> sebas: KDE does it too by the way
[11:51] <Zerlinna> Riddell: I think I have to ;)
[11:51] <sebas> Riddell: Rejecting lists for local teams?
[11:51] <toma> Riddell: deny ml's?
[11:51] <Riddell> sebas: yes, sysadmin denied me kde-gb
[11:51] <nixternal> hehe
[11:51] <sebas> Last five lists I asked sysadmin for, I got
[11:51] <toma> eeks
[11:51] <sebas> Riddell: Strange.
[11:51] <Zerlinna> sebas the argumentation was like a) resource costs b) it makes it harder for users to find the answers/help/support they need
[11:51] <sebas> I can bring that up though (ot here)
[11:52] <Riddell> Zerlinna: could you put it on the community council agenda for tomorrow then
[11:53] <gnomefreak> put it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda?highlight=%28community%29
[11:53] <sebas> allee, toma: wiki + CoC done
[11:53] <Zerlinna> Riddell: sebas it was not a direct denial but he asked me if
[11:53] <Zerlinna> I considered using the existing ubuntu-de list and/or if there has been any discussion about creating this
[11:53] <Zerlinna> new list on the ubuntu-de list
[11:53] <Zerlinna> Riddell: gnomefreak ok I'll do that
[11:53] <toma> sebas: thanks
[11:53] <Riddell> great
[11:53] <sebas> Zerlinna: Doesn't sound too supportive either
[11:53] <Riddell> next item on the agenda
[11:53] <Zerlinna> sebas true!
[11:53] <Riddell> is mhb with kmilo looks
[11:53] <mhb> that's mine
[11:54] <mhb> Should we improve the looks of the kmilo volume up/down pop-up? (It appears when you use the laptop sound buttons, for instance.)
[11:54] <mhb> Some reference images and mockups are located at MartinBhm/Meetings/KmiloPopup.
[11:54] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/KmiloPopup
[11:54] <Lure> mhb: in edgy we thought to use similar stuff as amarok does, but did not do it due to time constraint
[11:54] <manchicken> What language is that?
[11:55] <Lure> mhb: I am all for having something better
[11:55] <sebas> Big is good
[11:55] <toma> the label 'volume' is redundant i,ho
[11:55] <seaLne> i think anything other than centered could look weird if users changed from the default size of panel, in the bottom
[11:55] <Lure> mhb: we should have icon on it and I agree it should be big
[11:55] <mhb> icon/text ?
[11:56] <toma> icon only
[11:56] <kwwii> I think it could look more like katapult (ie. part. transparent)
[11:56] <manchicken> I think we may want to consider "master volume" though, instead of just "volume"
[11:56] <Lure> seaLne: I think center of screen makes most sense
[11:56] <seaLne> can we please have a new kmix icon then?
[11:56] <toma> manchicken: isnt that obvious when you press those buttons?
[11:56] <manchicken> toma: Not to my wife it wasn't.
[11:57] <kwwii> seaLne: we will once oxygen is out
[11:57] <manchicken> toma: She thought that was adjusting Amarok's volume.
[11:57] <Lure> mhb: amarok has nice rounded one - we could copy that code over
[11:57] <ryanakca> kwwii: that would be nice, and we could theme it for each kubuntu release... might mean more work though
[11:57] <seaLne> kwwii: yeah yeah :)
[11:57] <Hobbsee> manchicken: why would people be changing the volume anyway?  as opposed to master
[11:57] <toma> manchicken: did she press the button?
[11:57] <kwwii> ryanakca: agreed
[11:57] <manchicken> toma: Yeah.
[11:57] <gnomefreak> i would personally go inbetween the 2 sizes shown. the big seems a bit big and the little is way too little
[11:57] <mhb> Lure: of course
[11:57] <toma> manchicken: userss...
[11:57] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Sometimes you want your IM sounds to be louder than your music sounds...
[11:57] <manchicken> At least for me.
[11:58] <ryanakca> gnomefreak: hmm... yeah
[11:58] <allee> + IMHO
[11:58] <Hobbsee> manchicken: true
[11:58] <ryanakca> katapult looks the perfect size to me, well, the default edgy katapult at least...
[11:58] <manchicken> I like *big* so that people know what it is.
[11:58] <manchicken> err, so people know it's there.
[11:59] <Riddell> transparency like katapult or amarok is harder to programme, especially with a widget on top of it, but would look nicer
[11:59] <ryanakca> so, if we modified some katapult stuff, we'd have something themeable, looks the right size, etc
[11:59] <manchicken> Larger screens will make it possible to miss the smaller ones.
[11:59] <mhb> I'd wait with transparency on KDE4
[11:59] <fdoving> ..with a option to turn it of then. (i don't like transparancy everywhere).
[11:59] <Lure> regarding size: you have to know that this is also used for other kmilo actions (not just volume)
[11:59] <sebas> I think we should shift this asscards into the artwork guys pockets.
[12:00] <sebas> Otherwise you'll get endless "but I like green better" discussions
[12:00] <kwwii> lol
[12:00] <Riddell> mhb: are you volunteering to programme this?
[12:00] <raphink> I like purple better
[12:00] <mhb> Riddell: yes
[12:00] <Hobbsee> raphink: yay, purple :P
[12:00] <gnomefreak> +1 raphink  :)
[12:00] <raphink> do I?
[12:00] <Lure> raphink: amarok has purple already ;-)
[12:00] <sebas> raphink: Me too, but *I* know how to bribe Ken :-)
[12:01] <Riddell> mhb: as sebas says you won't get a definitive answer from the meeting, but has the feedback been useful?
[12:01] <Riddell> mhb: large and with icon seems popular
[12:01] <mhb> Riddell: I see
[12:01] <sebas> With icon different from the current kmix one please
[12:01] <sebas> That one is butt ugly
[12:02] <Riddell> that icon in the mockups isn't the kmix app icon, it's quite different
[12:02] <mhb> Riddell: I just want to know if we want to achieve consistency with amarok or not
[12:02] <mhb> too
[12:02] <manchicken> IMHO, Amarok has the right idea on the OSD for a lot of that stuff.
[12:02] <Riddell> mhb: sure, that would be great, just harder to programme
[12:02] <manchicken> If we're going to go for consistency, I'd rather see it go in favor of Amarok than in favor of katapult.
[12:02] <Riddell> but I guess some amount of copy and paste would work
[12:02] <kwwii> I think that all things like this should look the same, not just some
[12:03] <manchicken> But I'm not a UI guy ^_^
[12:03] <pinheiro> agread
[12:03] <kwwii> and amarok does look pertty good
[12:03] <mhb> I personally don't like the OSD, though
[12:03] <Riddell> we should have consistency between kmilo, amarok, k3b and katapult, tricky
[12:03] <mhb> neither the placement nor the default font&colour
[12:03] <allee> can't this be OSD  moved to knotify or ui daemon (guessing) so OSD is easier accessible for apps?
[12:03] <kwwii> tricky but that is the nicest looking idea, even if we only came close
[12:04] <Riddell> allee++
[12:04] <sebas> Is that only for volume in kmilo btw?
[12:04] <sebas> All of kmilo should look the same IMO
[12:04] <fdoving> sebas: looks like that for everything else too.
[12:04] <Riddell> sebas: it would be hard to have kmilo inconsistent with itself
[12:05] <Riddell> you'd have to go out of your way to programme it like that
[12:05] <sebas> I hope so :)
[12:05] <ryanakca> hey imbrandon
[12:05] <Tonio_> hi imbrandon
[12:05] <sebas> Hehe, believe me, I've seen things far more stupid than that :>
[12:05] <pinheiro> hi imbrandon
[12:05] <kwwii> like I said, lazy americans
[12:05] <imbrandon> Tonio_ !
[12:05] <nixternal> kwwii: you are a lazy american in Germany ;p
[12:05] <imbrandon> kwwii, hehe changed days so many times
[12:05] <kwwii> ;-)
[12:05] <Hobbsee> sorry about that :(
[12:05] <ryanakca> nixternal: lol
[12:05] <Riddell> we're getting off topic, maybe time to move on
[12:05] <mhb> I'm not sure if I have enough time/skill to code a more complex solution like moving the OSD elswhere before feature freeze
[12:06] <mhb> I'm sure I don't have the time
[12:06] <Riddell> mhb: copy and paste from amarok :)  else the mockups you have look good
[12:06] <manchicken> Wait a minute... what's wrong with laziness/
[12:06] <mhb> Riddell: okay then
[12:06] <Riddell> thanks mhb
[12:06] <Riddell> fdoving: your item
[12:07] <fdoving> A Central RCS (svn/bzr?) repository of debian/ dirs for kubuntu related packages.  (Similar to http://svn.debian.org)
[12:07] <mhb> thanks everyone for comments
[12:07] <fdoving> I believe that would make it easier for more people to contribute and cooperate.
[12:07] <manchicken> I thought there'd be something in knotify already.
[12:07] <fdoving> We will also have a history, with tags for each release.
[12:07] <fdoving> Thoughts?
[12:07] <toma> fdoving: ++
[12:07] <Hobbsee> fdoving: ++
[12:07] <manchicken> konversation, amarok, k3b all use similar OSDs.
[12:07] <allee> fdoving: what's wrong with using kde-extras in svn.debian.org?
[12:07] <manchicken> I'm finding it hard to believe that everybody duplicated that that well.
[12:07] <toma> fdoving: besides the repro of alioth
[12:07] <fdoving> allee: nothing. just needs to happen.
[12:07] <allee> fdoving: k
[12:07] <imbrandon> allee, because in my experince its a pita , esp when we have bzr on LP already
[12:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: that doesnt appear to be being used either but
[12:08] <Riddell> I do already have a copy of the debian dirs in svn.debian.org
[12:08] <toma> imbrandon: why a pita?
[12:08] <Riddell> and I never manage to keep it up to date
[12:08] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea biut if we're going to choose one i would much rather use our infra that alrady goverens our teams than debians
[12:08] <Tonio_> in my opinion, that duplicates everything
[12:09] <Tonio_> elmo talked about that already
[12:09] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: true...
[12:09] <ryanakca> see yah Hobbsee
[12:09] <Riddell> we'd be better waiting for the no-more-source-packages spec
[12:09] <Tonio_> the idea is interesting, but only if that's done to manage all packages and autogenerate the debs
[12:09] <seaLne> Tonio_: what duplicates everything?
[12:09] <allee> imbrandon: I've no bzr experience, but you think using bzr and merging again and again is easier than using svn.debian.org directly (assumed most kde appshave no real kubuntu specific changes
[12:09] <Tonio_> seaLne: the debian dir is already a kind of rcs system
[12:10] <imbrandon> allee, yes i do, the svn on alioth is a pain to get an account then i have -guest appended to my anme and many other gripes
[12:10] <Tonio_> you have a changelog, versioning etc...
[12:10] <imbrandon> i'm with Riddell we wait for the no more source spec and use LP
[12:10] <toma> imbrandon: that's not true
[12:10] <Tonio_> that's why I'm not very keen on putting everything in a rcs
[12:10] <fdoving> I belive people wou
[12:10] <Tonio_> but that's my feeling only
[12:11] <fdoving> ld need to change the way they work.. for a rcs to work.
[12:11] <allee> Tonio_: kde-extras is in buildserver.net to build pkgs directly http://buildserver.net/ including dapper .. feisty
[12:11] <Tonio_> allee: yes that's interesting, and that's what I said
[12:11] <toma> http://status.buildserver.net/packages/status.php?email=pkg-kde-extra&subdist=pkg-kde-extra
[12:11] <Tonio_> allee: but I think there is a spec for ubuntu packages to be managed with bzr
[12:11] <imbrandon> allee, so does suse buildserver ( as in build for dapper / feisty ) but that dont mean it uses or LP accounts and permisions etc
[12:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: any info if that's supposed to happen ?
[12:12] <imbrandon> and will be obsolited anyhow with the no source spec
[12:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: the soyuz team is very small these days, I think it'll need some more soyuz people to make it happen
[12:12] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yeah I was talking about that one
[12:13] <Tonio_> fdoving: talking about the amount of people needing to work on the same package, that's not very important actually
[12:13] <Tonio_> fdoving: we've tested bzr with kubuntu-default-setting
[12:13] <Riddell> fdoving: there's definately sympathy with the idea, but I think the core-dev people aren't willing to do the extra work to make it happen until no-more-source-packages
[12:14] <Tonio_> nobody else contributes, we just have more things and pain to do to make it to work...
[12:14] <imbrandon> Riddell, ++
[12:14] <fdoving> Tonio_: it's not too much about 'neeeding'.. it's more about 'beeing able to'.
[12:14] <fdoving> Tonio_: i can't change anything on your harddrive.
[12:14] <Tonio_> fdoving: yeah sure
[12:15] <kwwii> I've been up for 18 hours and have to get up to take my son to school in another 6, could we skip to the next issue?
[12:15] <fdoving> Riddell: ok.
[12:16] <imbrandon> is someone takin minutes? since i came late , i dident realize it had been changerd again
[12:16] <imbrandon> yea lets move on
[12:16] <Riddell> kwwii: are you after a paticular issue?
[12:16] <mhb> he's useful for the widget style one
[12:16] <kwwii> the style issue would be good