[11:30] <walrider> @u-
[11:31] <walrider> u-la-la please tell @pavlushka that i came here and hello
[16:02] <LjL> %tell pavlushka <walrider> u-la-la please tell @pavlushka that i came here and hello
[16:02] <Brainstorm> LjL, I'll pass Guest54570 aka pavlushka your message when they are around.


[00:12] <phillw> xnox: bug 1092349 is all yours :)
[00:25] <phillw> Noskcaj: oops, just as you posted your reply!!!!
[00:26] <phillw> have a read of mine :)
[00:36] <Noskcaj> phillw, i did. thats what i get for replying instantly
[00:39] <phillw> Noskcaj: no offence meant, I was in chat elsewhere when he sent the question into lubuntu-qa people.
[00:41] <phillw> crikey... about 2 hours after I said I'd look into you bug.... I'm just setting up a slice of disk for it to install onto.
[00:43] <Noskcaj> lolololol
[00:43] <phillw> Noskcaj: root@piglet:/home/phillw/enc-etc# lvcreate -L 10G -n r-desktop phillwvol
[00:43] <phillw>   Logical volume "r-desktop" created
[00:43] <Noskcaj> oooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy?
[00:46] <phillw> Noskcaj: started :)
[00:47] <Noskcaj> slow success
[00:48] <phillw> i have to tell the VM where everything is :P
[00:49] <phillw> total fail
[00:49] <Noskcaj> what happened?
[00:51] <phillw> The last comment was * Stopping
[00:54] <Noskcaj> it takes me ~15seconds to get a vm going, why is this taking so long?
[01:03] <phillw> Noskcaj: maybe the hint *Stopping gives it away?
[01:07] <Noskcaj> true
[01:07] <Noskcaj> y u no just use testdrive?
[01:08] <phillw> y u no use KVM / VBox etc?
[01:09] <Noskcaj> i use both
[01:09] <Noskcaj> mostly via testdrive
[01:13] <phillw> Noskcaj: I'm still getting used to work arounds on KVM for raring... at least they exist :P
[01:13] <phillw> Nah, straight into liveCD mode :)
[01:15] <phillw> ubiquity fails again... I'll keep the VM and catch up with xnox later as to what logs he needs.
[01:16] <Noskcaj> then if you can't confirm it i will message random lurkers till someone does
[01:16] <balloons> checking the encrypted install now
[01:17] <balloons> phillw, it booted ine
[01:18] <balloons> did you do home encrypton too?
[01:18] <balloons> cryptsetup successful
[01:20] <balloons> phillw, did you use kvm?
[01:20] <balloons> I've got to find my usb drive
[01:31] <phillw> Noskcaj: after installing the latest VBox, which required removal of old VBox, it has now affected my KVM syste, It is now 01:30 here, so I'm off to bed and will investigate later. It could well be that having both installed causes a fight.
[01:32] <phillw> balloons: Noskcaj I'm going to install raring onto my main system and keep qauntal as a test area.
[01:33] <phillw> raring has the fixes needed for KVM instead of trying to grab bits and pieces from raring into quantal. that system is un-supportable.
[01:34] <Noskcaj> ok
[01:34] <Noskcaj> i shall ask random lurkers then
[01:34] <Noskcaj> good night
[01:35] <phillw> I know that lubuntu-alternate 13,04 works :)
[01:35] <Noskcaj> __apr__, ajmitch apw bdrung your task is to confirm bug 1085577, please do that now
[01:35] <phillw> As to the idea of encryption of /home... I've never been a fan of it.
[01:36] <Noskcaj> jaysonr, manjo nagappan nuclearbob could you also do it
[01:36] <Noskcaj> one of them should respond
[01:36] <phillw> I'd much rather they offer to install /home on a seperate partition.
[01:38] <phillw> balloons: yes, I used kvm (12.10 version)
[01:41] <ajmitch> pinging random lurkers is a good way to annoy people & get them to ignore whatever you say, fwiw
[01:45] <phillw> hi Noskcaj
[01:46] <phillw> this issue with KVM is going to get a bit bloody, this is me on the same KVM using a precise VM
[01:47] <phillw> ubuntu can complain as much as they wish, but KVM is not in a rush to change as it also runs Red Hat / CentOS / Fedora etc.... if Ubuntu raring does not run, it is a problem ubuntu need to sort out.
[01:48] <Noskcaj> phillw, understandable
[01:48] <Noskcaj> ajmitch, i ran out of ideas. speak more often
[01:50] <phillw> what actually staggers beyond belief is that KVM is at the heart of Cloud computing, of which Canonical (ubuntu money side) are a platinum partner, yet their latest release fails on KVM..... I really do not know.
[01:52] <Noskcaj> phillw, so much logic. i there a way to make canonical hear your rants, not just me
[01:53] <phillw> "oh, let's ask for a change in the kernal which involves KVM and is used across every distro..." honest, my young friend... there are times!
[01:54] <phillw> Noskcaj: hopefully I'll be in a better mood once I change over to 13.04 :)
[02:03] <Noskcaj> you have a point,  but there is more chance of getting something done that way. and u hope so too
[02:05] <Noskcaj> lol, phill isn't even online
[02:11] <phillw> Noskcaj: I'm off to bed, but I'm setting piglet a task... burn me the latest 13.04 alt-lubuntu onto a disk :)
[02:12] <Noskcaj> phillw, ok, good night
[02:46] <Noskcaj> can someone please confirm bug 1085577 as phill is sleeping
[02:51] <jaysonr> Noskcaj: is 1085577 what you wanted me to test?
[02:51] <Noskcaj> yes, jaysonr if you could that would be great
[02:54] <jaysonr> Noskcaj: dl'ing iso now
[03:08] <Noskcaj> thanks, the bug has been around for maybe a month now with no confirmation at all
[03:10] <jaysonr> Noskcaj: was able to confirm - commented on bug and uploaded logs in a .tar.gz
[03:11] <Noskcaj> jaysonr, thank you, say thing more btw.
[03:11] <Noskcaj> it gets boring with only about 10 people very talking
[03:13] <jaysonr> Noskcaj: glad to help
[03:13] <jaysonr> Noskcaj: sorry I haven't had much time to get around to the Autopilot stuff much yet.
[03:15] <Noskcaj> jaysonr, don't worry, i have done nothing with it yet.
[03:18] <jaysonr> ok, well, hopefully after Christmas I'll have some time ;-)
[03:18] <jaysonr> If I'm around I can always help w/ stuff like this in the evenings - just ping me.
[03:21] <Noskcaj> ok
[03:52] <Noskcaj> hey tripelb
[07:18] <tripelb> Am back, alive.. Sort of. I have to get SD card cable. Downloaded ububtu for this old Mac ppc I was given. Now I need to get it out of the nexus and onto the Mac, make a cd , test it, try it out, and burn a live CD.. Then I can install it on the Mac. Hmmm, need a wireless receiver for the Mac I think.
[08:17] <dholbach> good morning
[08:18] <Noskcaj> dholbach, evening
[08:18] <dholbach> hey Noskcaj
[08:20] <Noskcaj> hello
[15:09] <smartboyhw> Oh god the TestCaseAdmins/Members page really gets a lot more people now:D
[19:16] <Noskcaj> phillw, to confirm bug 1092349 what do i do, you left out repeat instructions
[19:17] <phillw> Noskcaj: after installing, follow the 'remove media' prompt & reboot.
[19:19] <Noskcaj> ok, simple enough. it's alternate only isn't it?
[19:19] <phillw-vm> that's the only one I've tested it on. I'll have to update my xubuntu install to try that.
[19:20] <Noskcaj> ok, i am getting alternate amd64 and lubuntu desktop amd64 now
[19:20] <phillw-vm> thanks
[19:24] <phillw> I'm just updating my precise VM, I'll update my xubuntu-raring iso once that is done.
[19:50] <Noskcaj> phillw, where is the release notes link meant to be in lubuntu?
[19:51] <phillw> in release notes: :D .. let me grab the link for you.
[19:52] <phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/Lubuntu
[19:52] <phillw> We follow the standard format for release notes, else Liz would nag us to death :)
[19:52] <phillw> sorry, not Liz... Kate :)
[19:53] <Noskcaj> phillw, i meant in the raring installer
[19:53] <Noskcaj> i didn't appear for me
[19:54] <phillw> there are no release notes for raring... it has not been released!
[19:55] <Noskcaj> phillw, what about the link everything else has?
[19:55] <phillw> I'm not aware of 'what everything has' means?
[19:55] <Noskcaj> all the other distros
[19:56] <Noskcaj> have a link the goes to the ubuntu homepage
[19:56] <phillw> Those flavours following the alpha release schedule will have their alpha notes. I'm not aware of any notes released via Cadence testing.
[19:57] <Noskcaj> phillw, my point is lubuntu didn't have the release notes link, but it may just beconnection related
[19:58] <phillw> afaik, Kate looks after that and then digs me & Julien in the ribs to get it all filled in :)
[19:59] <phillw> Although I do need to ask gilir why there is no https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReleaseStatus/Raring
[19:59] <phillw> That's him pinged :)
[20:01] <Noskcaj> That link is what all flavours should have instead of the Ubuntu homepage(xubuntu, Ubuntu) or the kubuntu news page
[20:03] <phillw> I'm sure he said he was filing it... I'll await gilir 's reply. It may be an oversight.
[20:03] <Noskcaj> phillw, ok, just noticed in your bug report it says you we using quantal, bugception?
[20:04] <phillw> my test machine is running quantal, the latest stable release, using VM's I then install raring.
[20:07] <Noskcaj> oh
[20:19] <Noskcaj> phillw, just realized i finished the install without ticking "encript my home directory"
[20:21] <phillw> ahhh.... that's a bitch :)
[20:24] <Noskcaj> http://memecrunch.com/meme/A5H9/i-am-not-a-smart-man/image.png
[20:26] <phillw> Noskcaj: after my attempt at trying to install onto a 1GB root partition, I wouldn't feel to bad :)
[20:28] <Noskcaj> lolololololololololol :)
[20:47] <Noskcaj> phillw, it doesn't seem to affect lubuntu AMD64
[20:48] <phillw> alternate or desktop?
[20:48] <Noskcaj> desktop
[20:49] <phillw> we don't have a test case for encrypted on desktop? Possibly needs adding.
[20:50] <Noskcaj> definitely, no-one has an encript home folder test
[20:50] <phillw> Noskcaj: lubuntu alternate does :)
[20:50] <Noskcaj> oh
[20:51] <phillw> I was finishing my alternate tests before moving to desktop. I was then going to try and replicate your reported bug.
[21:43] <Noskcaj> worked fine for me phillw
[22:03] <phillw> Noskcaj: thanks, I've just installed Q using LVM onto my KVM system, now going to try encrypted to see if that works
[22:09] <Noskcaj> ok, it could always be a kvm bug
[22:09] <phillw> indeed, that is why I'm now trying Q with encryption.
[22:11] <phillw> I'm not a fan of encrypted /home... I'd much rather they offered the option to have a sperate /home by default :)
[22:14] <Noskcaj> much better idea, you could put home a a big usb stick if you wanted privacy
[22:16] <phillw> I'll see how this install goes, then try R with enc, using a section of hard drive instead of using my LV pool.
[22:29] <phillw> hmm, this is odd... it didn't ask me for a passphrase
[22:32] <phillw> xnox: are you about?
[22:34] <phillw> Noskcaj: were you asked to enter a passphrase when you selected encrypt /home in your raring install?
[22:37] <Noskcaj> phillw, no, just the popup once i was at the desktop
[22:38] <phillw> hmm, I was....
[22:44] <phillw> Yeah, that worked as you stated for 'Q'.... most peculiar
[22:45] <phillw> I'll add the information to the bug.
[22:46] <Noskcaj> it could always have been me not doing the right thing , but my advice is try in at least Vbox and kvm yourself, real hardware if possible
[22:50] <phillw> Noskcaj: the behaviour you report is what I see in Quantal with encrypted /home. It is not what I see with Raring. I doubt it is a KVM issue because of that, but yet a glitch with Raring and KVM.
[23:09] <Noskcaj> phillw, i think that's what i meant, maybe
[23:14] <phillw> I'm putting Raring onto my laptop tomorrow as a 'main' system, replacing my other 12.10 installation.
[23:15] <phillw> A bit of fdisk'ing needed to grab it a 10GB / partition - it will share /home and /swap with my 12.10 area.


[03:32] <highvoltage> popey: sorry for the contentless ping earlier, when you said you'll do the notes for the new members, did that include the meetings for June/July that have already elapsed?
[03:41] <nigelb> speaking of inbox control, mine started being more controllable when I stopped sub'ing debian-devel
[03:45] <pleia2> nigelb: that's why you put it in a folder and skim it every week! :)
[03:46] <paultag> that's what I do :)
[03:46] <pleia2> I also automatically mark bugs as read
[03:46] <nigelb> pleia2: well, my laptop crashed.  so all my mail rules are lost! *gasp*
[03:46] <pleia2> nigelb: yeah :( sadness
[03:46] <nigelb> I'm stuck with gmail web
[03:47] <nigelb> every hour I'd get close to 10 mails
[03:47] <paultag> I've topped that :)
[03:47] <pleia2> I use gmail web anyway because I use multiple computers throughout the day, imap ftw
[03:47] <paultag> +1
[03:47] <highvoltage> yesterday I unsubscribed from about 50 mailing lists
[03:47] <highvoltage> it already feels like a big weight lifted from me
[03:48] <nigelb> wow
[03:48] <nigelb> paultag: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Classic-WTF-The-Pie-T-Department.aspx
[03:48] <nigelb> elky got me adddicted to that one today ;)
[03:49] <pleia2> better than bash.org anyway
[03:49] <paultag> nigelb: haha
[03:49] <paultag> I'm busy fighting with my netbook
[03:49] <paultag> all day
[03:49] <paultag> all freeking day
[03:49]  * pleia2 gives paultag's netbook a pet
[03:49]  * paultag 's netbook purrs
[03:50] <nigelb> pleia2: I guess the bribe we paid to the guys were worth it.  paultag is busy throughout the day "fixing" it :p
[03:50] <pleia2> sshh!
[03:51] <paultag> nigelb: you did a darn fine job
[03:51] <nigelb> haha
[03:51] <paultag> nigelb: 2.6.3* kernels break
[03:51] <pleia2> maybe try a 2.4 kernel
[03:52] <paultag> pleia2: 2.6.2* is OK
[03:52] <pleia2> not as funny though
[03:52] <paultag> pleia2: so I'm running an older kernel, but I had to debootstrap it
[03:52] <pleia2> lenny has 2.6.26, you can use that :)
[03:52] <paultag> pleia2: long story, it's been one thing after another
[03:52] <pleia2> no fun
[03:52] <paultag> pleia2: running squeeze :)
[03:52] <paultag> pleia2: I can't get my b43 working
[03:52] <paultag> I messed something up
[03:52] <paultag> and unlike Ubuntu there is no module backports
[03:53] <pleia2> ah
[03:53] <pleia2> yeah :(
[03:53] <pleia2> b43 is such a pain when it doesn't Just Work
[03:53] <paultag> pleia2: the module is loaded, but the device is still network UNCLAIMED with no logical name
[03:54] <pleia2> yuck
[03:54] <paultag> yeah :/
[03:54] <paultag> doing an STA install now
[03:57] <paultag> Whoh...
[03:57] <paultag> it worked?
[03:57] <paultag> I'm so using Module-Assistant from now on...
[03:57] <pleia2> lol
[03:58] <nigelb> haha
[03:58] <paultag> Hello, World!
[03:58] <paultag> Woo! It works!
[03:58] <paultag> Well, it's official. I'm back to where I was four days ago.
[03:59] <pleia2> paultag is playing http://xkcd.com/349/
[03:59] <paultag> hahahahaha
[03:59] <paultag> Well, good news is I never went to BSD
[03:59] <pleia2> hehe
[04:00] <paultag> Woo!
[04:00] <paultag> running Debian Squeeze, XFCE off a bootstrap. Huzzah
[04:01] <duanedesign> pleia2: lol, thats funny
[04:07] <nigelb> ok, work time.  Time to get ready!
[04:07] <nigelb> later folks!
[04:07] <paultag> l8r
[04:32] <pleia2> doctormo: wow, this packaging guide series of svgs is very impressive so far (you sent me the link 11 days ago, but my brain was full then)
[04:34] <nhandler> I only briefly glanced at them. Some of them are a bit outdated, for instance, I would go with the machine-readable format for debian/copyright (not sure if Debian every officially adopted it, but it is easier)
[04:36] <pleia2> yeah, it's actually been a while since I've created a package from scratch so I can't speak to the up-to-dateness of it (I might do some of the same steps if I were to make a package today)
[04:36] <pleia2> and I've never actually used pbuilder
[04:37] <paultag> whaaaa?
[04:37] <paultag> pbuilder is my <3
[04:37] <nhandler> What do you use to testbuild pleia2 ? sbuild?
[04:37] <paultag> dholbach taught me how to use pbuilder
[04:38] <paultag> in his youtube videos :)
[04:39] <pleia2> nhandler: I just build :\
[04:39] <nhandler> pleia2: naughty, naughty ;)
[04:39] <pleia2> I am from the past!
[04:39] <pleia2> actually, I have been meaning to brush up my skills, a lot has changed
[04:40] <paultag> you guys wana see my new netbook?
[04:40] <pleia2> paultag: is it pink?
[04:40] <nhandler> paultag: I think I saw a picture of it already
[04:40] <paultag> http://i.imgur.com/R8w6j.png <-- This is my new netbook :D
[04:40] <paultag> nhandler: I just finished this
[04:40] <paultag> nhandler: oh, no, not the case :)
[04:41] <paultag> It's running Debian Squeeze + xfce
[04:41] <pleia2> yay mouse!
[04:41] <nhandler> paultag: I'm a bit surprised at therelatively basic conky setup you have
[04:41] <paultag> I call it Forkbomb Linux
[04:41] <paultag> nhandler: I'll work on it as I go :)
[04:41] <paultag> It's really nice, actually
[04:41] <paultag> I'm quite happy with it
[04:42] <nhandler> I'm glad you are happy. I've had a long couple of days where none of my programs are working the way they should coupled with some boring summer work
[04:43] <paultag> yeah. It was a long day, and it was a bad fight
[04:43] <paultag> I had to install debian off an ubuntu 9.10 cd on a SD card
[04:43] <paultag> erm... that's not normal.
[04:45] <paultag> I'm really stoked
[04:45] <paultag> it came out fantastic.
[04:45] <pleia2> :)
[04:45] <paultag> and thank you pleia2 for finally giving a talk that made me consider xfce seriously :)
[04:46] <pleia2> woohoo!
[04:46] <pleia2> this is the part where I mention that the xubuntu folks are always looking for volunteers
[04:46] <pleia2> it's a *tiny* dev team
[04:47] <paultag> I thought the xubuntu install was very comfortable
[04:47] <paultag> I'd be willing to help them when I clear out some of my existing work
[04:47] <paultag> I can't over commit :)
[04:47]  * pleia2 nods
[04:49] <paultag> I'm off for the night
[04:49] <paultag> 'night all
[04:57] <nhandler> Night paultag
[07:07] <sense> good morning!
[07:10] <kim0> Good morning all
[07:17] <nigelb> good morning!
[08:06] <dholbach> good morning
[08:08] <nigelb> morning dholbach :)
[08:11] <dholbach> hey nigelb
[08:32] <huats> morning !
[09:38] <dholbach> can somebody proofread https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Organisation - does it look OK?
[09:38] <dholbach> akgraner: does this look OK?
[10:00] <nigelb> dholbach: maybe ask in ubuntu-devel too?
[10:00] <nigelb> wait, you have motu-mentors thrice
[10:03] <dholbach> haha
[10:03] <dholbach> nice motu-mentors coverage
[10:04] <dholbach> fixed
[10:04] <vish> dholbach: hehe , say it several times people are bound to listen , ! nice :)
[10:04] <dholbach> gorilla marketing
[10:15] <nigelb> dholbach: you can probably add kubuntu devel and edubuntu devel there too
[10:34] <dholbach> jono: UGJ announce today?
[10:46] <czajkowski> morning
[10:50] <popey> LO!
[10:50] <czajkowski> jono: you have mail from me that is kinda urgent to look into, Turkey have lost their domain name and they do all of their work via their forums which is now a parking site for some domain name
[10:51] <jono> czajkowski, will get to it ASAP - on my last meeting
[10:52] <jono> czajkowski, I am amazed IS did not resolve this
[10:52] <jono> I pinged them
[10:52] <czajkowski> jono: I had the guy rant/give up/rather upset at me at 12pm last night understandably
[10:52] <jono> completely understandable
[10:53] <jono> czajkowski, #canonical-sysadmin
[10:53] <dholbach> hey popey, hey czajkowski
[10:55] <czajkowski> dholbach: hello there
[11:25] <dholbach> INBOX 66, this morning it was INBOX 100
[11:27] <czajkowski> making progress
[11:34] <dholbach> jcastro: I'll postpone all daily builds tuition sessions for now
[11:50] <doctormo> Morning czajkowski and dholbach
[11:51] <dholbach> hi doctormo
[11:51] <doctormo> dholbach: You guys still traveling?
[11:51] <dholbach> doctormo: I'm not
[11:51] <dholbach> dpm, jcastro and jono are
[11:52] <doctormo> ah
[11:52] <paultag> morning dholbach, doctormo
[11:52] <dholbach> hey paultag
[11:52]  * dholbach → lunch
[11:52] <paultag> doctormo: you're up; quite early
[11:52] <paultag> dholbach: :)
[11:53] <nigelb> doctormo: rhonda was looking fer ya
[11:54] <doctormo> 𝅘𝅥𝅯 we're on the road the nowhere 𝅘𝅥𝅯
[11:54] <doctormo> nigelb: Oh? what about?
[11:54] <doctormo> paultag: Got sleep and everything.
[11:55] <nigelb> doctormo: german translation for your latest creation
[11:55] <nigelb> check scrollback in #ubuntu-motu
[12:02] <doctormo> nigelb: Ah it exists?
[12:04] <doctormo> nigelb: I checked the backlog, nothing I could see..
[12:22] <paultag> doctormo: killer
[12:30] <ScottL> jono, i see that you wrote an article in LXF about Launchpad, that is outstanding!  hopefully this helps a lot of people develop a better understanding of it :)
[12:38] <jono> thanks ScottL :)
[12:38] <jono> biab, heading out for lunch
[12:39] <czajkowski> doctormo: done your daily doodle ?
[12:39] <paultag> doctormo: did you see my netbook?
[12:40] <paultag> doctormo: http://i.imgur.com/R8w6j.png :D
[12:47] <duanedesign> morning all
[12:48] <paultag> lo :)
[13:34] <doctormo> paultag: helllo
[13:34] <paultag> doctormo: hola
[13:35] <doctormo> ScottL: I still haven't got my copy of LXF, I think I need to double check with akgraner about it.
[13:35] <doctormo> 1GB of ram in a netbook... oh my, what are people using all this ram for.
[13:39] <paultag> doctormo: this thing is rocking out loud
[13:39] <highvoltage> doctormo: flash!
[13:39] <paultag> doctormo: I have it totally themed
[13:40] <paultag> +1 highvoltage !!!
[13:43] <paultag> doctormo: I have the netbook booting to gdm in under 15 seconds without even touching the startup stuff
[13:43] <doctormo> highvoltage: Hey, flash?
[13:46] <paultag> doctormo: you don't use flash?
[13:46] <doctormo> paultag: Not really, I'm subjected to it from time to time, but it's not something I active choose to use.
[13:47] <highvoltage> doctormo: yeah flash. we're talking about "people", aren't we ;)
[13:49] <doctormo> highvoltage: Flash the super hero?
[13:50] <highvoltage> nope, definitely not
[13:51] <paultag> yeah the other flash
[14:59] <dholbach> Ubuntu Global Jam announced :)
[15:00] <paultag> :D
[15:01] <scott-work> dholbach: did you get any solutions for xwax?
[15:02] <paultag> whoh dholbach
[15:02] <paultag> dholbach: it's really early this year
[15:02] <dholbach> paultag: no, around beta time again :)
[15:02] <dholbach> scott-work: no, I didn't have much time to dive into it, I need to put more effort into testing it with a couple of different kernels properly
[15:03] <paultag> dholbach: shoot, I'll be in Mass. I'll need to get my team to get this together this year :'(
[15:03] <dholbach> scott-work: I at least installed a couple of old ones already and I had the feeling that the lucid-release worked, but that was only 20 minutes of testing
[15:05] <scott-work> dholbach: re: lucid-release - hmmm, at least that is promising, can you let either me or abogoni know the results please?
[15:06] <dholbach> scott-work: will do
[15:06] <dholbach> thanks for your interest in this
[15:08] <scott-work> dholbach: your welcome
[15:08] <scott-work> dholbach: by the way, you may not be aware (i've kept it slightly on the down low) but i am the current ubuntu studio project lead
[15:08] <dholbach> oh nice - was there an announce of the news? :)
[15:09] <scott-work> dholbach: i did on ubuntustudio-users and ubuntustudio-devel mailing list, but that was really it
[15:10] <dholbach> ok
[15:10] <dholbach> so no blog post and mail to ubuntu-devel@ or something? :)
[15:10] <scott-work> dholbach: i did it so that they could see that someone was there and actively participating on improveming studio, sort of to build morale and confidence with the users
[15:11]  * dholbach nods
[15:11] <scott-work> dholbach: no, i was unaware about ubuntu-devel@ mail, persia finally told me to announce myself on #ubuntu-release, which i did, but i only scottk and one other person took notice
[15:13] <scott-work> although ak.graner is suppose to interview me for the fridge and i got my blog on planet ubuntu
[15:13] <dholbach> nice :)
[15:20] <dholbach> nhandler: THANKS
[15:20] <dholbach> :-D
[15:21] <nhandler> dholbach: I was just posting the UDW message on the fridge. For the ical, any reason for keeping it separate? It needs to go on the learning events calendar anyway
[15:21] <nhandler> And you are welcome :)
[15:21] <dholbach> nhandler: UDW message?
[15:21] <nhandler> err, now I'm getting my events mixed up (I posted Global Jam on the fridge ;) )
[15:21] <dholbach> what about which ical?
[15:21] <dholbach> I'm confused now :)
[15:22] <nhandler> dholbach: Sorry. On the UDW wiki page, you mention an ical that they can subscribe to with all of the events. Why use a separate ical instead of just using the learning events ical?
[15:22] <dholbach> nhandler: I have no idea who set it up
[15:22] <dholbach> I'm happy with whatever really
[15:23] <nhandler> dholbach: Alright. I'll update the wiki link and that should hopefully take care of it
[15:23] <dholbach> gracias
[15:32] <doctormo> dholbach: http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2uc0cr Global Jam
[15:34] <dholbach> :-)
[15:40] <vish> hehe , "Age 14" :D
[15:51] <jono> czajkowski, all ok with the domain issue?
[15:53] <huats> jono, she's away for some time (1h) and I don't think there is ay new element
[15:54] <huats> (the last time she exposed it at least)
[15:54] <jono> thanks huats
[15:54] <paultag> jono: yeah, it's still parked
[15:56] <jono> thanks paultag - I spoke with IS and got some assigned to providing czajkowski with updates
[15:56] <paultag> jono: thanks, you rock :)
[15:57] <jono> thanks paultag
[15:57] <jono> ...and I don't rock :)
[15:58] <jono> I just help coordinate who do rock
[15:58] <paultag> your shameless humility is quite noteworthy jono :)
[16:03] <jono> paultag, lol
[16:07] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:07] <czajkowski> jono: ticket is gone to private can#t read it but ng said he'd let me know an update
[16:07] <jono> czajkowski, cool
[16:07] <jono> czajkowski, hassle Ng about it if there is no progress
[16:08] <akgraner> dholbach, your wiki looks great!
[16:08] <czajkowski> jono: thanks for the help
[16:08] <jono> czajkowski, np
[16:09] <dholbach> akgraner: thanks
[16:09] <dholbach> just wanted to see if you were OK with it
[16:10] <akgraner> dholbach, yep - I need to transfer the marketing stuff from the googledoc to the wiki - and then I'll add a link to your wiki as well
[16:10] <akgraner> sorry - I've just been slammed here the last couple weeks - but I'll get it all caught up ASAP
[16:10] <akgraner> :-(
[16:10] <dholbach> awesome
[16:11] <dholbach> don't worry, take it easy!
[16:16] <czajkowski> doctormo: stop top posting!
[16:20] <doctormo> czajkowski: But it wasn't a response in context!
[16:21] <czajkowski> doctormo: well, yes it was, you were replying to my mail, giving out about monthly reports
[16:21] <doctormo> czajkowski: Top posting is quite ok for this kind of thing.
[16:22] <AlanBell> no need to include the bottom in that instance
[16:22] <czajkowski> for when you want to disagree with an entire mail is it?
[16:25] <doctormo> czajkowski: Where there is a sufficient insufferably to the entire affair.
[16:26] <czajkowski> doctormo: wow, don't hold back there
[16:27] <czajkowski> doctormo: reports should be a 3 min job, doesn't have to be one person doing it
[16:27] <czajkowski> if it's one person doing everything , it's not really a community is it
[16:27] <paultag> That's right.
[16:27] <paultag> doctormo: it takes like 10 minutes. If you can't do 10 minutes a week to ensure we know what's going on, it's not a good sign either.
[16:28] <doctormo> czajkowski: Yes I kept on saying that.
[16:29] <czajkowski> no you just complained about the council asking for report, it's not just us looking for them, everyone wants to see reports
[16:29] <doctormo> paultag: The process is still WORN, tact on. It doesn't flow, it's not elegant. It's all rather an after thought to the work flow of even organisation.
[16:29] <jono> http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/07/27/ubuntu-global-jam-start-your-engines/
[16:29] <paultag> doctormo: I disagree totally
[16:30] <AlanBell> doctormo: I have started to read team reports
[16:30] <paultag> me as well, and if it turns into automated mail, I won't
[16:30] <paultag> and if we don't use it, why do it?
[16:31] <doctormo> paultag: I would actually like to read what other teams are up to, but I dare not waste hours digging through a disorganised set of wiki pages.
[16:31] <doctormo> It's not like the idea is a bad one, it's not, it's great. Execution though.
[16:31] <AlanBell> the process is all upstream of the locos anyway in the consolidated page
[16:31] <AlanBell> huh?
[16:31] <AlanBell> doctormo: have you seen the consolidated report page?
[16:31] <paultag> there are strict guidelines doctormo
[16:31] <paultag> +1 AlanBell
[16:31] <jono> dholbach, looking forward to seeing UGJ events added to the loco dir :-)
[16:32] <czajkowski> jono: the global event for it has been created so just up to teams to link to it
[16:32] <jono> I am going to add one now
[16:32] <jono> czajkowski, indeed
[16:32] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/June2010 is the June report, it is all done with <<include>> moin macros
[16:32] <paultag> AlanBell: +1
[16:32] <paultag> doctormo: guidelines here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[16:32] <czajkowski> aye and we all can follow the nice set up, or get someone to set it up
[16:33] <doctormo> OK so not wading through, it's still a wiki though.
[16:33] <czajkowski> or ASK FOR HELP!
[16:33] <paultag> doctormo: more here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting/HowTo
[16:33] <czajkowski> doctormo: I honestly, think you just have an issue with anything the loco council are trying to do to help locos
[16:33] <doctormo> czajkowski: I like the loco directory.
[16:34] <jono> dholbach, would be cool also if when adding an event for a global jam which has the dates set, if it only showed a date picker within those dates
[16:35] <czajkowski> jono: aye would be nice, but I think most folks want the timezone issue sorted more so than picking a date, as some teams hold their event the following week depending on loco circumstances
[16:35] <AlanBell> I can see that if you didn't know about the consolidated report then the team reporting thing would seem a bit pointless
[16:35] <dholbach> jono: can you file a bug for that?
[16:35] <huats> doctormo, the LD is not really drived by the LC
[16:35] <czajkowski> doctormo: the LD isn't us, we use it and encourage teams to use it also
[16:35] <doctormo> huats: Well they didn't start it, but I'm sure the LoCo council fully support it, right?
[16:36] <jono> dholbach, will do
[16:36] <dinda1> ack, dang redirect on the ubuntu wiki to help.ubuntu.com is too fast!
[16:36] <dholbach> jono: thanks
[16:36] <jono> I just added http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/223/detail/ :-)
[16:36] <huats> doctormo, of course
[16:36] <dholbach> jono: awesome
[16:36] <dholbach> jono: I have to rework my geographic-regrouping fix - I'm on it now and hope we can get another release out afterwards
[16:37] <dinda1> since the last page I visited was a redirected page, now when I try to access the wiki I get shot over to the help site instead
[16:37] <jono> dholbach, perfect, thanks!
[16:38] <jono> dholbach, if you could land that ASAP it will make it much easier for viewing all the new events :)
[16:38] <dholbach> jono: I won't finish it today
[16:38] <jono> dholbach, np
[16:38] <jono> dholbach, this week would be sweet if possible :)
[16:39] <dholbach> ok
[16:42] <jono> dholbach, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/610495
[16:42] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 610495 in loco-directory "For global events, the new event date picker should be constrained within the date region (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[16:42] <czajkowski> jono: don't forget #locoteams tag whe tweeting
[16:43] <dholbach> thanks jono
[16:43] <jono> czajkowski, I did for the UGJ announce
[16:43] <greg-g> wow, the loco directory looks good now!
[16:43] <czajkowski> jono: you're a keeper
[16:43] <jono> greg-g, :-)
[16:43] <jono> czajkowski, ahhh you are the real keeper :)
[16:48] <jono> dholbach, czajkowski https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/610498
[16:48] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 610498 in loco-directory "About page should be about LoCo Teams, not the directory (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[16:49] <czajkowski> added loco council to it
[16:52] <jono> thanks czajkowski
[16:52] <czajkowski> no bother shall go poke em
[16:52] <czajkowski> we're having an extra council meeting next week
[16:54] <dholbach> alright my friends
[16:54] <dholbach> I call it a day
[16:54] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow
[16:54]  * dholbach hugs you all
[16:54] <jono> night dholbach
[16:54] <jono> :-)
[16:55] <czajkowski> dholbach: nn
[16:55]  * jono hugs dholbach
[16:57] <dholbach> bye guys
[17:47] <doctormo> czajkowski: Having had a thought about what I was trying to say and how it came across. I wanted to apologise, what I meant was for a constructive dialog on improving the situation and I'm aware that what I wrote was not a primer for that. Instead I feel I may have put communicated doubt in the good work of the loco council and it's members and that was not my intention.
[17:48] <doctormo> Sorry
[18:09] <highvoltage> doctormo: hmm? doesn't sound like something that happened in this channel?
[18:10] <pleia2> highvoltage: loco-contacts list
[18:10] <doctormo> pleia2: Should I post that to the list do you think?
[18:10] <pleia2> doctormo: I think so, yeah
[18:10] <highvoltage> ah, I guess it would be more appropriate to apologise directly to czajkowski or on the list then :)
[18:11] <doctormo> highvoltage: The after effects appeared here, so I thought this was most appropriate. I'll get it sent to the list now.
[18:11] <highvoltage> doctormo: ah. yes I just read your mail and couldn't find anything worth apologizing for. ok
[18:13] <AlanBell> doctormo: don't beat yourself up about it!
[18:15] <doctormo> highvoltage, AlanBell: The problem is that I communicate negative aspects by omission a lot. Own worst enemy and all that.
[18:15] <highvoltage> doctormo: I can relate :)
[18:18] <czajkowski> doctormo: thank you
[19:37] <doctormo> paultag: I just figured out a bug in English.
[19:37] <doctormo> paultag: Should I use "Your added" or "You're added"... both seem acceptable if slightly different.
[19:38] <paultag> doctormo: but there needs to be more
[19:38] <paultag> doctormo: right?
[19:38] <paultag> doctormo: you're added to blah, or your added modifications ...
[19:39] <paultag> it depends on the object, I think
[19:39] <paultag> direct object *
[19:40] <paultag> right?
[19:40] <paultag> doctormo: or is your bug unrelated to this use case?
[19:40] <doctormo> Yea I guess anyone could have bugs with incomplete sentences.
[19:40] <paultag> haha
[20:10] <doctormo> pleia2: With your CC hat on, someone on your blog suggested a "How to Answer Questions" guide for people who want to help (here irc, forums etc).
[20:10] <doctormo> What are your thoughts?
[20:11] <pleia2> doctormo: I read that question as "how helpers could be nicer" - presumably from someone who felt the helpers were curt with them
[20:12] <doctormo> pleia2: Yes, do you think it's not a serious request? Maybe something to ask at the next CC meeting?
[20:12] <pleia2> doctormo: if it's IRC-based, I think it's more appropriate for an IRCC meeting
[20:12] <pleia2> I am not sure if it's a serious request
[20:13] <doctormo> OK, fuzzy thoughts, I'll keep the idea in mind if ever it comes up again.
[20:13] <czajkowski> I think it depends sometimes in the channel questions that are asked.  if there has been 3-4 other questions prior to it, people ae often tired, and want people to get to the point if they've not asked a question correctly or asked to ask a question
[20:14] <czajkowski> also sometimes you're dealing with a lanauge barrier I find and things can be taken up wrong, as one cannot tell tone over irc
[20:14] <pleia2> honestly the IRC support staff does a great job, it's improved a lot over the years
[20:15] <czajkowski> aye it has
[20:15] <czajkowski> but I find in ubuntu-namespace at times when channels are quieter it's a bit harder
[20:15] <czajkowski> namely as there aren't enough people around at a time
[20:15] <czajkowski> which is just a timezone issue really
[20:16] <Pici> Some of our helpers can be a bit short at times, and others suggest google as their only answer, but we do our best to curb that behavior when we can.
[20:16] <doctormo> Perhaps then a guide for helpers wouldn't be so much a repetition of the CoC, but something more based around best practices, useful places to go or keep in your browser bookmarks? Useful practical things?
[20:17] <doctormo> Pici: Are you on the IRCC?
[20:17] <Pici> doctormo: I am indeed.
[20:18] <doctormo> then perhaps you would be the person to speak to about getting a link to http://doctormo.org/2010/07/26/how-to-ask-for-translations/ perhaps for the #ubuntu topic?
[20:18] <doctormo> A short url
[20:20] <Pici> doctormo: I'll propose it to the rest of the IRCC
[20:20] <doctormo> Thanks Pici
[20:53] <nhandler> Well, I re-learned why I don't like #perl, I can never get answers in there
[20:53] <paultag> what else is new ;)
[20:55] <doctormo> nhandler: I used to hang out there way back when
[20:55] <nhandler> doctormo: Speaking of that, did you see my last PM about switching to the OO approach (which doesn't work)?
[20:56] <doctormo> I did yes, For some reasonI think perl's gettext is broken.
[20:56] <nhandler> lol
[20:56] <nhandler> I would have thought someone would have noticed (there have to be other apps that use it). And it does look like some people have had it work for them (although that doesn't mean it didn't break recently)
[21:20] <doctormo> nhandler: More likely it works if the mo files are in the system directory.
[21:20] <doctormo> You could always go through the gettext module and debug it.
[21:20] <doctormo> that's what I did with the python one to figure out why I couldn't get it working.
[21:42] <doctormo> cjohnston: Woot, I got Hebrew and Polish translations and taught 2 more people how to use ground control.
[21:43] <cjohnston> awesome!
[21:47] <doctormo> cjohnston: You gotta admit, it looks pretty when they're all next to each other http://doctormo.org/2010/07/26/how-to-ask-for-translations/
[21:48]  * nhandler is looking forward to having ClassBots available in all languages ;)
[21:48] <paultag> this would be cool :)
[21:48] <cjohnston> lol doctormo
[21:49] <paultag> nhandler: make it policy to add a meta field for nickserv called lang, and have classbot hit that for the instructor's language
[21:49] <doctormo> cjohnston: For some reason spanish, arabic and chinese are hard to get translations for.
[21:49] <nhandler> paultag: I need to get translations working properly first normally. Then I can play around with other stuff like that
[21:49] <paultag> nhandler: for sure.
[21:50] <nhandler> doctormo: I would think Spanish would be easy
[21:50] <cjohnston> I have a buddy who speaks arabic.. but he wouldnt be into doing translations
[21:50] <doctormo> *shrug* no offers yet.
[21:50] <paultag> doctormo: seek people out :)
[21:50] <paultag> doctormo: ask in #ubuntu-beginners-team, there are quite a few people from S.A.
[21:50] <paultag> doctormo: as for arabic, try the egypt team, they are kinda active ( active enough )
[21:51] <nhandler> Hmm...Someone should link Dell to the new Ubuntu branding
[21:51] <paultag> nhandler: they dropped a lot of support
[21:51] <paultag> nhandler: I don't think they care tbh
[21:51] <nhandler> paultag: They just added a bunch of new machines (see omgubuntu): http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
[21:51] <paultag> whaa?
[21:51] <czajkowski> why not ask matthew helmke
[21:51] <paultag> 9.04 >:(
[21:52] <czajkowski> he speaks arabic
[21:52] <doctormo> paultag: You've been reading OMG haven't you :-D
[21:52] <paultag> doctormo: I don't read OMGUbuntu :/
[21:52] <doctormo> paultag: Ah they had an article of Ubuntu dropping Ubuntu.
[21:52] <paultag> haha wha?
[21:53] <doctormo> Thanks czajkowski
[21:53] <doctormo> paultag: I meant to say Dell dropping Ubuntu
[21:53] <paultag> Ahh
[21:53] <paultag> that makes more sense
[21:53] <doctormo> That did come out funny thought
[21:53] <paultag> I thought it was a funny post
[21:54] <nhandler> doctormo: They had a new article within the hour about the PR person they cited being wrong
[21:54]  * nhandler finds it funny the 3 computers listed include 1 with Moblin Remix, 1 with Desktop Edition 10.04, and one with 9.10
[21:55] <paultag> hahaha
[21:55] <paultag> doctormo: what's the license on your setup.py script for starf / gc ?
[21:58] <paultag> doctormo: nvmd looks GPLv3, I'm stealing it
[21:59] <doctormo> paultag: Yup
[21:59] <paultag> bbl, cheers all
[22:29] <sense> Good night everyone! How're you?
[22:29] <czajkowski> sense: hey enjoying guadec
[22:30] <sense> czajkowski: I've been sitting mostly behind the registration desk (doing non-registration stuff), haven't seen anything of the BoFs and such. But it is fun!
[22:30] <sense> The Hague really is a nice city.
[22:31] <czajkowski> great
[22:31] <sense> Really a shame you're not here, would have loved to meet you again.
[22:34] <sense> czajkowski: On a LoCo related side: this is also a great opportunity to get to know the GNOME Dutch people better since I'm basically hanging out with them the whole time. I would like to make GNOME Dutch more well-known in Ubuntu NL and see how we can cooperate.
[22:34] <czajkowski> *nods*
[22:34] <sense> I've also had the change to speak to Sebastian (SWAT) for a short while, which is useful.
[22:35] <sense> He'll probably try to take some Ubuntu CDs with him the LoCo still had left over so we will be the only distro with CDs available. :P
[22:35] <sense> Despite the fact that most of the GNOME Dutch people are non-Ubunteros! ;)
[22:35] <sense> coup d'etat!
[22:35] <sense> é
[22:36] <czajkowski> sense: loving the blogging keep it up
[22:36] <sense> czajkowski: Thank you! I'll try to do that every day.
[22:37] <sense> czajkowski: You're following the live feed, right?
[22:37] <czajkowski> yup
[22:39] <sense> czajkowski: Great!
[22:40] <sense> We're working on video streams right now for the next three days.
[22:40] <sense> They will be in WebM.
[22:40] <sense> Please let me know if the video and social media streams have problems.
[22:41] <sense> I find it important that people at home, like you, can at least monitor GUADEC.
[22:41] <czajkowski> will do
[22:43] <sense> thanks!
[22:49] <doctormo> sense: I didn't think Ubuntu 10.04 supported webm yet
[22:50] <czajkowski> works fine on my mini 9
[22:50] <sense> doctormo: Yes, that is the problematic part. We'll be providing links to alphas, betas, nightlies and dailies for people who actually want to see the stream.
[22:51] <doctormo> sense: Does ogg not cut the mustard?
[22:51] <sense> I think that Flumotion wanted to use the opportunity to test and demonstrate their WebM streaming.
[22:51] <sense> We're actually glad we've got anything at all. A few weeks ago the video streaming was very uncertain.
[22:53] <sense> doctormo: You probably mean Theora here, as WebM is using Ogg for the audio.
[22:57] <doctormo> sense: Actually it's using Vorbis for the audio, ogg is a container format which webm doesn't use.
[22:59] <sense> ah, of course, I always confuse those two. :P
[22:59] <sense> And I thought I was correcting you! ...
[23:37] <doctormo> sense: ah well, the oft wrong is sometimes not. Picking apart the whole mpeg/avi/aac malarky and doing some background legal on each format gives some perspective.
[23:38] <doctormo> nigelb: ping
[23:43] <doctormo> cjohnston: Before I was looking at the "About" bug reported by jono and I thought, "I have a great idea, why not put the about loco directory in the footer"... I get to the report and you've already thought it and made examples. Heh Ubuntu community of smart cookies.


[15:55] <arraybolt3> ilvipero: Just to be clear, the next Flavor Sync meeting is still March 13, right? I saw some of the scheduling get changed up and now I'm not sure if it's March 13 or April 13.
[15:57] <ilvipero> ArrayBolt3 @ArrayBolt3:libera.chat: yes, no change in date and time. Apologies, i just had to edit and add a few folks and the time zone played a trick on me. It should all be back to normal. Session1 3PM UTC and Session2 10PM UTC.
[15:57] <arraybolt3> Ah, got it. Thank you!
[16:00] <ilvipero> No, thank you for clearing it. I will check again all dates and times tomorrow, then post in the flavours channel also as a reminder for the meeting
[16:01] <arraybolt3> +1
[18:42] <teward> Fallen: around?
[18:47] <teward> if the answer is no then mauro is the next one on my ping list
[18:49] <teward> ilvipero: assuming you're around you're next on my ping list
[20:18] <Fallen> teward: what's up?
[20:19] <teward> the emails
[20:19] <teward> oliver already poked
[20:22] <Fallen> Responses look reasonable, looks like you have a path forward? Mauro can help provide context as needed tomorrow.
[20:23] <teward> Fallen: yeah we're good to go it's a "more info needed" situation first
[20:23] <teward> before anyone can make a call/decision :p
[20:23] <Fallen> Yeah that is fine, just wanted to put them in touch with you so you are aware.
[20:23] <teward> yup
[20:24] <Fallen> Thanks for responding so quickly!
[20:26] <teward> y'all owe me a coffee :p
[23:35] <ilvipero> teward: thanks and good morning. Happy to support you on this one. Feel free to reach out to me directly any time. I'll bring coffee☕


[00:05] <wgrant> lifeless: So, access policy model.
[00:05] <rick_h> StevenK: wallyworld ok, boy is in bed. You guys need anything from me then or are we all set?
[00:05] <lifeless> wgrant: shure
[00:05] <wgrant> lifeless: The queries end up sufficiently complex that the array indices don't seem to help.
[00:06] <wgrant> lifeless: Adding an extra intermediate table to link to multiple policies might perform OK, but it's really hard to say on DF.
[00:07] <lifeless> hmm
[00:07] <wgrant> I have schemas + populations + queries at http://people.canonical.com/~wgrant/launchpad/access-policies
[00:07] <lifeless> how do they perform
[00:07] <wgrant> I can't tell.
[00:07] <wgrant> DF's performance is too variable.
[00:07] <lifeless> would you like me to run some shit somewhere
[00:07] <wallyworld> rick_h: just waiting for the buildbot upgrade. thanks for asking. next thing is to get the convoy patch done etc but you have that in hand already
[00:08] <rick_h> wallyworld: ok cool.
[00:08] <wallyworld> rick_h: i merged your branch and will land mine as soon as we are ready to go. i'll let you know what transpires today
[00:09] <rick_h> wallyworld: ok, sounds like a plan
[00:13] <wgrant> lifeless: I'd like if you could experiment a little. There are two there for which performance on qastaging would be interesting. accesspolicy*.sql set up the schema and populate it with real data. The other two are queries for the corresponding schemas.
[00:14] <lifeless> are they mutually exclusive ?
[00:14] <wgrant> Yes.
[00:18] <lifeless> wgrant: your tests are missing analyzes of some temp tables
[00:18] <lifeless> and with-arrays has a syntax error
[00:19] <lifeless> wgrant: some initial results: http://paste.ubuntu.com/814915/
[00:20] <wgrant> lifeless: The two sets of queries are basically just a dumping ground for things that I tried.
[00:20] <wgrant> Unlike the schema bits, they're not meant to be executed in one go verbatim.
[00:21] <wgrant> Hah, one of those is for launchpad, the other for ubuntu.
[00:24] <lifeless> hmm, I'm surprised at the scope fo rthe CTE working in the second half of the union
[00:26] <wgrant> Where?
[00:26] <wgrant> A lot of these queries are probably horrible, as I maimed them in horrible ways to try to get different plans.
[00:26] <lifeless>   OR EXISTS ( WITH teams AS (SELECT team FROM TeamParticipation WHERE person = 21997)
[00:26] <lifeless> ..
[00:26] <lifeless> UNION
[00:26] <lifeless> ...
[00:26] <lifeless> teams
[00:27] <lifeless> the LP with-arrays example
[00:27] <wgrant> Ah, right.
[00:27] <lifeless> anyhow, LP is 300ms which is reasonably snappy (for the batch)
[00:27] <wgrant> Yeah, that's reasonable for LP.
[00:27] <wgrant> Which is the normal case.
[00:27] <wgrant> Ubuntu is another story.
[00:27] <wgrant> I was able to do any LP thing in 500-700ms on DF.
[00:28] <lifeless> its bringing back 5800 bugs
[00:28] <wgrant> Hm, I apparently lost the original query at some point.
[00:28] <lifeless> so the ubuntu case would be 100 times slower
[00:29] <wgrant> That is the one with the current subscription-based queries.
[00:29] <wgrant> Right, except it uses a different plan.
[00:29] <lifeless> also
[00:29] <lifeless> I tihnk the sort is wrong - see the sort bug I filed today
[00:30] <lifeless> we do -importance, bugtask.id
[00:30] <lifeless> these days, at least for some scopes.
[00:30] <lifeless> 5.1 seconds for ubuntu
[00:30] <lifeless>          ->  Nested Loop  (cost=0.00..4068090.66 rows=152081 width=69) (actual time=0.206..5084.616 rows=98557 loops=1)
[00:33] <lifeless> this
[00:33] <lifeless> ORDER BY BugTask.importance DESC, BugTask.id LIMIT 76
[00:33] <lifeless> makes it
[00:33] <lifeless>  Total runtime: 160.709 ms
[00:33] <wgrant> orly
[00:34] <lifeless> dunno how well it will scale when you're at offset 5000 (or constraints based that deep in)
[00:34] <lifeless> http://paste.ubuntu.com/814929/
[00:35] <wgrant> https://pastebin.canonical.com/58655/ is the current query, for comparison
[00:35] <lifeless> so, thats fast because 1/2 the bugs are ubuntu bugs, and the index matches the sort, so it goes 'wha-hay, lets just walk the index'
[00:36] <wgrant> Yep
[00:36] <wgrant> Like we saw a couple of months abck
[00:36] <lifeless> count(*) is  Total runtime: 3892.111 ms
[00:37] <lifeless> but that is largely separate
[00:40] <wgrant> How I envy every other bugtracker :(
[00:40] <lifeless> because they don't have to handle our scale?
[00:41] <wgrant> Right.
[00:41] <wgrant> I guess they also lack bugtasks.
[00:43] <lifeless> wgrant: I have a possible search schema
[00:43] <lifeless> now where did I put it
[00:43] <wgrant> That's what I was hoping :)
[00:44] <lifeless> http://paste.ubuntu.com/814938/
[02:02] <lifeless> wgrant: does that help ?
[02:04] <wgrant> lifeless: Maybe :)
[04:58] <StevenK> Hmmmmm. Looks like there is a bug with how nominations check
[04:58]  * StevenK checks if he can break it, to see if he should notify and redirect
[05:04]  * StevenK peers at the dev sign-in form.
[05:04] <StevenK> Oh yes, wgrant ripped out passwords.
[05:05] <wgrant> Yeah
[05:05] <wgrant> No passwords for you.
[05:08] <StevenK> Hmmmm, if wgrant isn't being evil to DF ...
[05:11] <wgrant> I'm not, no.
[05:15] <StevenK> wgrant: O hai, Mr OCR -- https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/notification-already-targetted/+merge/89826
[05:18] <wgrant> StevenK: Shouldn't those permissions work?
[05:18] <wgrant> If they're defined at all for those objects, they should surely be transitive.
[05:18] <StevenK> wgrant: They don't seem to, and we spent a while hammering out userHas*Privileges()
[05:19] <StevenK> So we should use them ... :-)
[05:19] <wgrant> Sure, but if there are incorrect launchpad.Driver and launchpad.BugSupervisor for ISourcePackage, we should probably fix that.
[05:19] <wgrant> It's fine if they don't exist.
[05:19] <wgrant> But not if they exist but are incorrect.
[05:20] <StevenK> I think it's being called on a SSP
[05:20] <wgrant> Er
[05:20] <wgrant> Doesn't only code use SSP?
[05:20] <wgrant> s/code/Code/
[05:21] <StevenK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/libvirt/+bug/632696/+nominate should work for me, I have bug supervisor superpowahs, right?
[05:21] <_mup_> Bug #632696: libvirt won't start a VM with serial or console <amd64> <apport-bug> <maverick> <server-mrs> <libvirt (Ubuntu):Invalid> <libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/632696 >
[05:21] <wgrant> Sure.
[05:22] <wgrant> But is that because the permissions are incorrect, or because they don't exist?
[05:22] <wgrant> If they don
[05:22] <wgrant> don't exist, this fix is correct.
[05:22] <StevenK> I'm not sure how to check
[05:22] <wgrant> Look for corresponding adapters.
[05:23] <wgrant> Or, better still, use bin/harness and try to adapt them :)
[05:23] <StevenK> You just lost me
[05:23] <wgrant> Check which security adapter happens when you try to adapt ISP to launchpad.Driver or launchpad.BugSupervisor.
[05:36]  * StevenK drowns in zope calls
[05:42] <StevenK> And checkPermission() is utterly incomprehensible. :-(
[05:44] <wgrant> IAuthorization(someobj, name='launchpad.Something')
[05:45] <StevenK> I was just coming to that conclusion, due to iter_authorization.
[05:47] <StevenK> In [5]: IAuthorization(spn, 'launchpad.BugSupervisor')
[05:47] <StevenK> Out[5]: 'launchpad.BugSupervisor'
[05:48] <wgrant> name=
[05:48] <wgrant> The second argh is the default.
[05:48] <StevenK> Bah
[05:48] <wgrant> -h
[05:48] <StevenK> TypeError: 'name' is an invalid keyword argument for this function
[05:49] <wgrant> May have to use queryAdapter or getAdapter directly.
[05:50] <StevenK> In [16]: auth = queryAdapter(spn, IAuthorization, 'launchpad.BugSupervisor')
[05:50] <StevenK> In [17]: print auth
[05:50] <StevenK> -------> print(auth)
[05:50] <StevenK> None
[05:50] <wgrant> spn?
[05:51] <StevenK> Bleh
[05:51] <StevenK> factory.makeSourcePackage(), and then the above on that results in the same
[05:52] <wgrant> That suggests there's no adapter at all.
[05:52] <wgrant> So your solution may be correct.
[05:52] <wgrant> But check similar for launchpad.Driver
[05:52] <StevenK> In [23]: auth = queryAdapter(sp, IAuthorization, 'launchpad.Driver')
[05:52] <StevenK> In [24]: print(auth)
[05:52] <StevenK> <lp.security.SeriesDrivers object at 0x80e1dd0>
[05:55] <StevenK> wgrant: I had secessfully managed to block lib/lp/security.py from my mind, damn you.
[05:56] <StevenK> There are no adapters for ISP at all
[06:06] <wgrant> StevenK: Right.
[06:06] <wgrant> So your description is incorrect, but your code is right.
[06:14] <StevenK> wgrant: "Work around lack of ISP security adapters by using IBugTask.userHas*Privleges()" ?
[06:15] <wgrant> StevenK: Something like that.
[08:57] <adeuring> good morning
[11:10] <rick_h> morning
[11:16] <rick_h> ruh roh, did the use-convoy not make it last night?
[11:26] <StevenK> rick_h: I don't think buildbot hasn't been upgraded
[11:27] <StevenK> Sigh, grammer fail
[11:27] <rick_h> heh, ok
[11:47] <StevenK> Why is the BranchRevision SQL on the branch page taking 8.8 seconds? :-(
[11:47] <wgrant> StevenK: Probably the scanner being a bit greedy with its locks.
[11:48] <StevenK> And this is terrible. Thanks the base64 disease in OOPSes, you can't trigger an OOPS on one machine and then eyeball-copy the OOPS to the other.
[11:49] <wgrant> It solves more problems than it causes :)
[11:59] <wallyworld> rick_h: hi, still waiting on the rt to be done before we can land
[12:00] <rick_h> wallyworld: ok cool
[12:00] <wallyworld> i was hoping to be able to tell you it was done
[12:00] <rick_h> heh, np
[12:00] <rick_h> I need to work off that branch to start work on the other issues so I'm ancy. I'll be patient :)
[12:01] <wallyworld> i want it done too
[12:02] <wallyworld> i initially needed to update the rt with the required version info so there was a hold up there, but hopefully there's no more roadblocks
[12:25] <gmb> Oh, sod it.
[12:29] <gmb> Although, that said...
[12:29]  * gmb lunches
[13:16] <tumbleweed> lifeless: you appear not to be subscribed to bug 583426. Are you ok with the dh_python2 namespace approach for lazr?
[13:16] <_mup_> Bug #583426: Missing __init__.py <apport-bug> <i386> <lazr.restfulclient (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <lazr.uri (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <protobuf (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/583426 >
[14:48] <deryck> abentley, adeuring, rick_h -- hey there, guys.  did you guys hold the standup?
[14:48] <abentley> deryck: yes./
[14:49] <deryck> abentley, adeuring, rick_h -- shall we do it now, or in 10 at the top of the hour?
[14:49] <abentley> deryck: I'm ready now
[14:49] <adeuring> either time is fine for me
[14:49] <rick_h> yea, fine either way
[14:49] <deryck> ok, let's do it now then.
[15:32] <Laney> bigjools: am I right in thinking that spph.creator wasn't there from the start of copyPackage? i.e. early syncs using that method won't have that set
[15:33] <bigjools> Laney: ummmm I can't remember.  It's NULL for non-syncs for sure.  rvba, can you remember?
[15:33]  * tumbleweed recalls that being the case
[15:34] <rvba> Laney: bigjools yes, that's true, creator was introduced afterwards.
[15:34] <Laney> hmm OK
[15:34] <Laney> was wondering why we misidentified some early syncs. guess there's no way for us to tell
[15:35] <tumbleweed> Laney: date range...
[15:35] <Laney> tell /who/ synced
[15:36] <Laney> rvba: thanks for the info
[15:36] <rvba> welcome.
[15:38] <deryck> abentley, I'm free now.  Sorry it took so long.  mumble or g+ hangout?
[15:38] <abentley> deryck: mumble
[16:15] <jcsackett> sinzui: regarding the grackle-lp-views branch. create bug to land, or just land no-qa?
[16:15] <sinzui> correct
[16:17] <sinzui> jcsackett, I unassigned myself from grackle-client. I need to announce the terminology/use cases decisions from Budapest, and revise  interactive mockup to hand off to Huw and Ian
[16:18] <sinzui> jcsackett, I will take the card back tomorrow if all goes well
[16:18] <jcsackett> sinzui: ok. when you say correct, was that to no-qa? could have applied to either clause of my question. :-P
[16:19] <sinzui> jcsackett, does it fix a specific bug?
[16:19] <sinzui> I think not so no-qa
[16:19] <jcsackett> sinzui: that's where i was leaning, but i like second opinions. :-P
[16:19] <jml> is there any auth on the LP oops system?
[16:20] <jml> i.e. what mechanism do you use to prevent random bozos on the Internet submitting oopses?
[16:20] <sinzui> jcsackett, I might be the wrong person to ever ask the question. I QA most of my no-qa bugs because I am paranoid. I would still visit the new view you created and verify the page title and headings
[16:21] <jcsackett> sinzui: oh yeah, i'm not thinking fire and forget. just whether it's worth filing a filler-bug.
[16:21] <jcsackett> i think we agree that it's not, but i totally plan on looking at the branch on qastaging.
[16:22] <sinzui> jcsackett, I do not think a bug is needed. The view does not provide value to anyone yet
[16:24] <abentley> jcsackett: Are you handling the case where message body is too long?
[16:24] <abentley> jcsackett: I'm a bit obsessed with that right now, because that's the root cause of bug 911090
[16:24] <_mup_> Bug #911090: merge proposal is broken with consistent timeouts <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by abentley> <Tarmac:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/911090 >
[16:25] <jcsackett> abentley: our plan is to auto-truncate the body when displaying messages, iirc.
[16:25] <jcsackett> ...auto-truncate is redundant.
[16:25] <jcsackett> we'll truncate long messages, and allow another means of seeing the whole thing.
[16:25] <jcsackett> but we're not a stage where any solution to that is set yet.
[16:25] <abentley> jcsackett: Cool.  Yeah, I'm implementing that for comments now.
[16:25] <jcsackett> abentley: yeah, i can see that being a pain in comments.
[16:27] <abentley> jcsackett: We have three classes of message bodies: Short, long and excessive.
[16:28] <abentley> jcsackett: long and excessive messages get truncated, with a download link.
[16:28] <abentley> jcsackett: long messages also get a "Read more" link that lets you view the message in the Launchpad UI.
[16:29] <jcsackett> abentley: that sounds like a good solution. i'll ape it so we don't have two means of dealing with the same problem. :-)
[16:31] <abentley> jcsackett: Well, don't go overboard.  Since most comments can be adapted to IMessages, maybe we should just move the code to IMessage.
[16:31]  * jcsackett nods
[16:31] <jcsackett> abentley: when do you think you're code is likely to start landing?
[16:32] <abentley> jcsackett: this week.  Tomorrow if I'm lucky.
[16:32] <jcsackett> we're doing a lot of incremental landings for grackle integration, and nothing is going to get linked to and really wired in until we can integrate grackle properly, so i can probably move relevant bits into IMessage as i go.
[16:32] <jcsackett> awesome. i'll take a look as i'm going then and if it works take advantage of that code.
[16:33] <jcsackett> abentley: moving it into IMessage though may best wait to the day we start moving all of our message stuff into this same archive idea, which i think is longer-range than getting grackle in for mailing lists.
[16:34] <abentley> jcsackett: Part 1 is here, but there's a lot of other stuff: https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/bugcomment-as-icomment/+merge/89497
[16:35] <jcsackett> abentley: dig. i think i recall you mentioning some of this at the epic.
[16:44] <abentley> rockstar: I want to turn ICodeReviewComment.message_body into a method.  It used to be one, but you changed it into a property.  Can you comment?
[16:46] <abentley> rockstar: (I want to do this because properties are always rendered, and Tarmac is making 16MB message bodies.)
[16:46] <rockstar> abentley, *groan* I can't comment.  It's been too long.
[16:47] <abentley> rockstar: Okay.
[16:47] <rockstar> I think that might have been the result of a code review, actually.
[16:48] <abentley> rockstar: It didn't look like it.  I was the reviewer, and I don't remember either.
[16:48] <rockstar> Oh, uh, probably ignorance on my part then.
[16:50] <abentley> rockstar: r7719.1.4 if you're curious.
[16:51] <rockstar> Oh, it was part of the API!
[16:51] <rockstar> leonardr told me to do it that way.
[16:51] <jml> flacoste: fwiw, the thing I talk about http://code.mumak.net/2012/01/undistract-me.html addresses one of your past concerns about LP's test suite
[16:52] <flacoste> jml: i saw!
[16:52] <abentley> rockstar: Doh!
[16:53] <jml> flacoste: cool :) it's working out really well for me
[16:54] <rockstar> abentley, I think there was something about the API decorators that was causing problems.
[20:01] <lifeless> rick_h: hey
[20:01] <lifeless> rick_h: have you looked closely at handlebars?
[20:02] <lifeless> jml: our oops system is firewalled off
[20:02] <lifeless> jml: we have a plan for a javascript oops system, which will let random bozos submit oopses
[20:03] <lifeless> -> automated signal detection will matter, but the fact is random bozos will need access (can't prove a browser was on our website...)
[20:05] <lifeless> abentley: perhaps we should reject the 16MB messages (and offer attachments instead) ?
[20:08] <abentley> lifeless: We generally render textual attachments, so I don't think that helps, and I prefer systems that don't have discontinuities.
[20:38] <lifeless> abentley: we don't render textual attachments in bugs - at all
[20:38] <lifeless> abentley: diffs are a dicontinuity already :)
[20:39] <abentley> lifeless: I'm talking about code review comments.
[21:45] <rick_h> lifeless: I'm using it for my personal app. I'm liking it so far.
[21:46] <rick_h> lifeless: I've not looked at the source much though, so could be evil, but doubt it if YUI is building it into 3.5
[22:04] <sinzui> jcsackett, mumble?
[22:34] <deryck> G'night, all.
[22:37] <wallyworld> rick_h: use-convoy branch now in ec2 for real :-D
[22:37] <StevenK> It was for real last time, too. Now it will land if the tests passs.
[22:38] <StevenK> s/\(ss\)s/\1/
[22:38] <wallyworld> StevenK: that's what i meant by "for real"
[22:39] <StevenK> Hah, another vuln in wordpress <= 3.3.1
[22:43] <rick_h_droid> awesome
[22:43] <rick_h_droid> stevek I might need a hm. f
[22:43] <rick_h_droid> bah
[22:44] <rick_h_droid> a hand with some make/buildout magic to help tests setup
[22:44] <rick_h_droid> I think we're still going to want a copy of yui and such in build/js
[22:53] <wallyworld> rick_h: so, you have the convoy patch sorted, and are now looking at the tests? the first thing i'd do is change the yui seed script location in all the html files  so that it doesn't use the symlink in icing
[23:13] <rick_h_droid> wallyword yea, I had a discussion with deryck on it today. I think the key will be pointing all seed files at the build js directory and create a symlink there to change yui versions as required
[23:17] <lifeless> rick_h: hey hey
[23:17] <rick_h_droid> howdy
[23:18] <lifeless> rick_h: so yeah, I've been looking at it to asses a pybars port
[23:18] <rick_h> lifeless: ah, nice
[23:30] <wallyworld> rick_h: what you say above about yui tests matches how i envisaged it would work also
[23:31] <rick_h> wallyworld: yea, so I'm working on my make/buildbot skills because right now things are built straight into the convoy directory
[23:31] <rick_h> and we'll need a new command to move the symlink in the build/js directory from one version of YUI to another and such
[23:31] <rick_h> I did it with a bunch of magic JS code today and deryck suggested I might have overcomplicated the issue a little bit :)
[23:33] <wallyworld> yeah, kiss is good
[23:34] <rick_h> it's ok, I got the oreilly gnu make book and I'm starting to try to make it less scary for me
[23:34] <wallyworld> a goal here for me at least is to totally remove the yui symlink and anu other build cruft from the icing dir
[23:35] <rick_h> right, I'm making sure nothing but the link to combo.css comes from icing any more
[23:35] <wallyworld> sounds good
[23:35] <rick_h> anyway, work for tomorrow. Good luck with the landing
[23:35] <rick_h> time to work on getting the boy to bed
[23:35] <wallyworld> thanks :-) will let you know
[23:43] <lifeless> rick_h: blah, elocal
[23:44] <lifeless> rick_h: so, it seems to me that handlebars has kindof missed the 'separation of code and presentation' angle of moustache
[23:44] <lifeless> rick_h: I was wondering if you had any insight into that
[23:46] <StevenK> wgrant: QA for r14717
[23:48] <rick_h> lifeless: I find it provides a decent middle ground. You can define new blocks and helpers
[23:48] <rick_h> but it's still fairly limiting as a template language goes
[23:49] <rick_h> I mean, I know there's a very anti-code in the templates kind of thing, but I also feel that view belongs in the view (template) and things like concat'ing, prettying dates, etc aren't model duties
[23:50] <rick_h> lifeless: which part do you find crosses the border?
[23:53] <StevenK> wallyworld: Can you look at kanban and see if any cards can move? I know the convoy one can't yet, but some others may be able to
[23:53] <wallyworld> ok
[23:54] <wallyworld> StevenK: the two cards in landing are part of the use-convoy branch, so there's nothing obvious to move
[23:55] <StevenK> wallyworld: Right
[23:56] <lifeless> rick_h: e.g. on here http://handlebarsjs.com/ - the 'list' helper.
[23:56] <lifeless> rick_h: seems like a terrible reason to have that facility.
[23:57] <StevenK> wgrant: I have a deployment request prepared for when we're good.