[04:23] <LinuxGold> I'm running Ubuntu Server 13.04 and upgraded to kernel 3.11.0-996, getting error i2c i2c-3 sendbytes: NAK bailout in console
[09:05] <ruien> Hello all. I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel and trying to do some kernel dev but building using "debian/rules binary-generic" is *slow* -- it tries to rebuild from scratch every change, rather than just detecting modified files and building only the necessary pieces the way `make` does. It requires "debian/rules clean" (otherwise my changes are ignored), and even "make deb-pkg" is slow. Question: anyone know how to install
[09:34] <ruien> In short, I expect that after modifying only one file in the kernel source, it should rebuild in <10 minutes (as it does when using "make" only, not the debian-specific stuff). All I really want is some info on the sort of workflow do kernel devs really use. User-Mode Linux perhaps?


[00:00] <LaserJock> pretty much people who work on whatever it is
[00:00] <nubae> I know, but that assumes they know ubuntu politics...
[00:00] <Ahmuck> seriosly LaserJock, just u and stgraber on edubuntu?
[00:00] <nubae> in the real world... they wouldnt call themselves a developer, so the word scares them... think of it as meaning hard core C programmer
[00:01] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: yep
[00:01] <LaserJock> nubae: contributor is probably better
[00:01] <LaserJock> but work == development
[00:01] <LaserJock> it's kind hard to get around
[00:02] <LaserJock> in any case
[00:02] <nubae> its just about the link
[00:02] <nubae> its like the devel lists...
[00:02] <nubae> most users wont subscribe to them
[00:02] <nubae> too scary
[00:02] <LaserJock> hmm
[00:03] <nubae> a sys admin wont call himself a dev
[00:03] <Ahmuck> actually, there are some apps out there that i think could be used as "partnership" apps
[00:03] <Ahmuck> like opera
[00:03] <nubae> and a sys admin would already be able to help alot with stuff
[00:03] <Ahmuck> which would "beef" up the app offering
[00:04] <LaserJock> opera is in the partner repo :-)
[00:04] <Ahmuck> some of which are pay apps.  ubuntu does this now
[00:04] <Ahmuck> iirc
[00:04] <nubae> that becomes a real political debate, free vs non-free
[00:05] <Ahmuck> *shrugs*.  ur looking for apps
[00:05] <nubae> nah the apps ARE there
[00:05] <nubae> lots and lots
[00:05] <Ahmuck> and honestly, with LUK soon it may not be a problem with wine
[00:05] <nubae> just needs careful assessing on how to put them into edubuntu
[00:05] <Ahmuck> edu apps that equal some of the windows apps:?
[00:05]  * Ahmuck needs to visit a toys r us soon
[00:06] <nubae> many of them, yes
[00:06] <Ahmuck> http://linuxappfinder.com/education
[00:06] <Ahmuck> i use this site a sort of a barometer, because i know they are selecting the "best" apps
[00:06] <Ahmuck> normally
[00:07] <Ahmuck> ri-li is a neat app that teaches constitutional laws
[00:07] <nubae> right we need something like that for edubuntu
[00:08] <Ahmuck> it's there in the repositories
[00:08] <Ahmuck> it's a quirky little game asks you questions about amendments(?) when your done with a level
[00:08] <Ahmuck> kids learn via games, sound, etc.
[00:09] <Ahmuck> word association
[00:09] <nubae> nah I mean putting all the 'best' apps up like a barometer
[00:10] <Ahmuck> so what constitutes best apps?
[00:10] <nubae> just wondering, who manages the multiverse repo?
[00:10]  * Ahmuck and another irc member disagreed on this the other day
[00:10] <nubae> well, apps that work and are effective for the task they are supposed to do
[00:11] <Ahmuck> actually, let me re-phrase that.  who should be the rating individuals to rate "best apps" ?
[00:11] <Ahmuck> the individuals who rate what is considered "the best app"?
[00:11] <nubae> well either the edubuntu team
[00:11] <nubae> or everyone
[00:12] <Ahmuck> how about students and educators
[00:12] <Ahmuck> ever seen the novell usablity testing guidelines?
[00:12] <nubae> yeah that would everyone who uses it
[00:12] <Ahmuck> they did a wonderful job in usablity testing
[00:13] <Ahmuck> we have that capablility here, and have been doing some of it.  it's interesting, because what were finding out is the apps we would consider "kool" are not the same ones we've been selecting
[00:13] <Ahmuck> and the apps we thought would teach are not the same ones that are doing the job etc.
[00:14] <LaserJock> nubae: MOTU maintain Multiverse
[00:14] <nubae> yeah I guess it helps to have a student and teacher body to select what makes something usable or not
[00:15] <LaserJock> we've wanted for a long time to get a good feedback mechanism for picking which educational apps go in Main
[00:19] <LaserJock> we wanted an app review/list/rating engine
[00:19] <Ahmuck> we have a video team here that might be able to assist.  it might be interesting to load the list with some apps and find out.  recently i was trying to get people to try scribus and was running into a lot of resistance becaue it was not "indesing" or "photoshop" or "etc. (insert main stream app here).  however, demoing the app peaked the curositiy of and adult and student, and now the student is looking at a full multimedia linux production box
[00:20] <LaserJock> but as always, the problem is not in dreaming the idea, but implementing it ;-)
[00:20] <nubae> :-)
[00:20] <LaserJock> baby steps
[00:21] <LaserJock> I would really love to see a testing team take off
[00:21] <LaserJock> that's something that should be fairly easy for people to do
[00:21] <nubae> list it in strategy doc
[00:22]  * LaserJock starts to get the feeling that nubae wants him to work on something ... :-)
[00:23] <Ahmuck> our test lab will have full cameras in it.  i'd be willing to do some testing, though i rely on volunteers to do so and you know how volunteering goes
[00:24] <nubae> well, its an example of a task, and a person that is kinda volunteering for that task, Ahmuck :-)=
[00:24] <nubae> so might as well write it down :p
[00:25] <Ahmuck> exactly, true development doesn't happen all on the dev side
[00:25] <Ahmuck> if it did, we would all still be in text land :)
[00:28] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: could you perhaps find out if you could get some volunteers?
[00:29] <Ahmuck> volunteer to sit down and test?  we have them
[00:29] <Ahmuck> i don't know if they would be willing to be video taped
[00:29] <Ahmuck> it's interesting to sit down and watch people use programs
[00:29] <LaserJock> yes
[00:29] <Ahmuck> you learn alot about "whats expected", etc.
[00:32] <Ahmuck> gimp did something a while back, and they made some small changes in the "crop" tool after some testing and some developement, and it is by far the best "crop" tool out there.  you have large areas to drag the box with, not trying to hit the edges of the box
[00:32] <Ahmuck> it's these types of changes that make one app stand out from the others
[00:33] <LaserJock> so we need to have a list of things to test
[00:33] <nubae> another document :p
[00:34] <LaserJock> a lot of this stuff should *so* be on the mailing lists
[00:36] <freetown> what did i miss?
[00:36] <freetown> what did i miss?
[00:37] <nubae> what mailing list :p
[00:38] <nubae> havent seen traffic on it in months
[00:38] <LaserJock> then let's get it going
[00:38] <freetown> you mean significant traffic >:P
[00:39] <LaserJock> the problem is we can sit here and chat for hours
[00:39] <LaserJock> but the audience is quite small
[00:40] <nubae> yeah I know... thing is here u get a feeling it you're talking to someone, the list often is in one ear out the other
[00:40] <nubae> instant gratification :-)
[01:07] <nubae> is xsane not in main?
[01:14] <LaserJock> I think it is
[01:15] <nubae> shouldn't it be part of edubuntu... I mean scanning is quite important for schools
[01:17] <stgraber> nubae: it's in main and AFAIK part of the standard Ubuntu desktop
[01:18] <nubae> oh, maybe thats new, and I never noticed
[01:18] <LaserJock> I think it's been that way for years
[01:19] <nubae> I've been upgrading for years, so I wouldnt have noticed :-)
[01:20] <stgraber> according to rmadison, xsane always was in main
[01:20] <stgraber> (at lest since dapper, don't have the history before that)
[01:20] <stgraber> *least
[01:22] <nubae> weird...
[01:41] <nubae> right calling it a night... laters...
[01:46] <andresmujica> hi
[01:46] <andresmujica> what do you think about an edubuntu server for about 10 thin clients
[01:47] <andresmujica> but the edubuntu server would be a domU or guest host in a xen enviroment?
[01:48] <Ahmuck> a domU ?
[01:54] <andresmujica> a guest host
[02:19] <Ahmuck> has linux become bloated?
[02:51] <freetown> Ahmuck, nope...it just tries to run on top of a xen kernel
[02:51] <freetown> so hurray for a native solution: kvm
[02:52] <freetown> but yeah, xen support is bloat imnsho
[16:44] <nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
[17:00] <alkisg> nubae: "You are not authorized to access this page."
[17:01] <nubae> huh, really?
[17:01] <nubae> try now
[17:02] <alkisg> nubae: the same, "Access denied"
[17:03] <alkisg> oh, now it's ok
[17:03] <nubae> yeah forgot to hit publish
[17:03] <nubae> have look through see if it looks ok
[17:03] <alkisg> Grrr... it took me some hours to write this in Greek, it would be much easier for me if you did this a month ago! :P :D
[17:03] <alkisg> (thanks!)
[17:04] <nubae> grin, I have another list of the non-supported apps too
[17:04] <alkisg> non-supported? why would you want this list?
[17:04] <nubae> which is what I was working on for weeks, until Laserjock explained exactly that edubuntu is only the apps in main
[17:04] <alkisg> ...such as?
[17:08] <nubae> well if u go to add/remove and look under education
[17:08] <nubae> there is tons of stuff
[17:09] <alkisg> Ah, I see. Yeah, that's not part of edubuntu.
[17:10] <alkisg> Good job... Did you do all this manually, or did you also use any script?
[17:10] <nubae> well, semi-manually
[17:10] <nubae> copied and pasted from package details
[17:11] <nubae> but to get it looking decent had to lay it up in dreamweaver
[17:11] <nubae> I still think we should have a section that shows recommended edu apps
[17:11] <alkisg> Pitty there's isn't a Linux version of dreamweaver
[17:11] <nubae> that are universe or multiverse
[17:11] <nubae> well I use wine
[17:11] <nubae> works perfectl
[17:12] <alkisg> Oh, that's interesting! :)
[17:12] <nubae> yeah dreamweaver 8
[17:12] <nubae> installs and runs flawlessly
[17:12] <alkisg> Why not any later version? They have problems?
[17:13] <nubae> well, later version u need to copy the dir from windows to linux partition
[17:13] <nubae> and I dont run windows at all anymore
[17:13] <alkisg> Ah... still no problem
[17:13] <nubae> yeah latest versions run without problems
[17:13] <nubae> but cant install them
[17:13] <nubae> need to install on windows, then move across
[17:14] <alkisg> I only run Windows to copy movies for my kids, but I'll make another exception for DreamWeaver! :P
[17:14] <nubae> hehe
[17:15] <nubae> u think we should have rating and click-install on website?
[17:15] <alkisg> Click install not necessarily, but it would be nice if they were actual <a href's> instead of simple text
[17:15] <alkisg> ...also the icons would show better if they were larger,
[17:15] <nubae> for links to homepages
[17:16] <alkisg> Yes, e.g.  http://live.gnome.org/Dia for Dia isn't an actual hyperlink
[17:16] <nubae> yeah, but thats their size... in the packages... If I enlarge it will be out of res.
[17:16] <nubae> k... that should be pretty easy
[17:16] <alkisg> I guess you could use the icons from /usr/share/icons, but it'll take some minutes
[17:17] <nubae> those are the ones I'm using
[17:17] <nubae> 32x32
[17:18] <nubae> there is 48x48, but not all apps have those
[17:19] <nubae> actually only Ooo has 48x48
[17:19] <alkisg> I thought all the kde apps had 128x128 and most gnome ones had svg..
[17:19] <nubae> unless I convert them all from svg
[17:20] <nubae> svg wont work on the web directly, that would  a lot of work...
[17:20] <alkisg> Nah, a script could do it quickly
[17:20] <alkisg> imagemagick loads svg fine if I remember correctly
[17:20] <nubae> well, one would have to write something to scale, then convert
[17:20] <nubae> probably easier with inkscape
[17:21] <nubae> but imagemagick should do it
[17:21] <alkisg> It's a one-liner with imagemagick, I think I did something like that some months ago
[17:21] <nubae> the problem is, then I have to reupload every image, one by one
[17:21] <nubae> I dont have access to the ftp server, just upload via drupal
[17:21] <alkisg> Ouch... that's a major problem! :)
[17:22] <alkisg> I wish I knew curl or something to automate such tasks
[17:22] <nubae> well, the ideal would be a database of the apps.... but again, no access to the server
[17:23] <nubae> screenshots would be nice too I suppose
[17:23] <alkisg> even some appropriately structured text-based files would do, but again, no access
[17:23] <nubae> :-)
[17:31] <Ahmuck> i'd like to see anki in edubuntu
[17:31] <Ahmuck> http://ichi2.net/anki/download/index.html
[17:32] <nubae> and I celestia
[17:32] <nubae> googleearth wouldnt be bad in there either
[17:33] <nubae> we have  flash card programs in edubuntu already, are they not as good?
[17:33] <Ahmuck> i'd like to see a pay app section
[17:34] <Ahmuck> in your list
[17:34] <Ahmuck> there are some pay apps that work well, some which are windows and others which are linux
[17:34] <nubae> right now, edubuntu cannot carry pay apps... it cannot even carry anything outside whats officially supported by canonical
[17:34] <Ahmuck> i really think the linux communinty needs to get behind the linux app programs pay or not
[17:35] <Ahmuck> so, need to make a sepearte link on the web for a master list?
[17:35] <nubae> If I am allowed to, that would be great
[17:35] <Ahmuck> see, i don't understand why edubuntu can't have pay apps.  they have prop nvidia drives don't they ?
[17:35] <nubae> I have to speak to the powers that be first
[17:35] <nubae> speaking of...
[17:35] <nubae> :-)
[17:35] <LaserJock> uh oh
[17:36] <nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
[17:36] <nubae> thats intrepid's current list...
[17:36] <LaserJock> nubae I love you!
[17:36] <Ahmuck> kdenlive works well, is it on the list?
[17:37] <LaserJock> I don't think we ship kdenlive
[17:37] <nubae> what is khelpcenter by the way?
[17:37] <nubae> that was in the seed, but didnt include it
[17:37] <Ahmuck> it's to bad edubuntu isn't kde based, as they appear to be more involved in edu
[17:37] <LaserJock> khelpcenter is the KDE help ... center
[17:37] <nubae> everything in kde-edu is in edubuntu
[17:38] <LaserJock> it's a real toss up really between KDE and Gnome
[17:38] <LaserJock> there's gcompris on the Gnome side, for instance
[17:39] <nubae> Ahmuck asked me if we could make another list that has the apps which are not supported but recommended on website
[17:39] <nubae> I have a lot of these already done from add/remove
[17:40] <LaserJock> I think the wiki may be a better place to do that
[17:40] <nubae> yeah maybe... true
[17:40] <nubae> also... should there be a click-to-install link for the apps, or not?
[17:40] <nubae> and screenshot?
[17:40] <nubae> rating?
[17:41] <LaserJock> I don't think yet
[17:41] <LaserJock> I have to think a sec about the click-to-install
[17:41] <LaserJock> it would be fine if you're on the page for the release you are running
[17:42] <nubae> well, I think we should really retire the page when the new release comes out
[17:42] <LaserJock> but there are going to be some differences between releases and I wonder if that would cause confusion/problems
[17:42] <nubae> no?
[17:42] <LaserJock> no, we need historical lists
[17:42] <nubae> we can link to the old page somewhere for those users
[17:43] <nubae> but the more links, the more confusing, I agree...
[17:43] <LaserJock> I think if we had a edubuntu.org/applications page that was an overview
[17:43] <LaserJock> that then linked to the individual release pages
[17:43] <LaserJock> I just don't want people thinking they are upgrading by clicking on the apt-url link on a newer page
[17:44] <nubae> yeah we have to make it clear that that is for the CURRENT distro...
[17:44] <nubae> maybe keep the install-on-click off then
[17:45] <LaserJock> but I think we should linkify the homepages
[17:45] <nubae> ??
[17:45] <LaserJock> the Homepage: URLs are links
[17:46] <LaserJock> aren't
[17:46] <nubae> oh right, yeah
[17:46] <nubae> doing that now
[17:46] <LaserJock> we *could* link to the packages.ubuntu.com entry
[17:46] <LaserJock> but for now I think this is an *excellent* start
[17:46] <nubae> yep... which would require a little intellegence to click and install
[17:46] <LaserJock> I'm very pleased
[17:47] <nubae> edubuntu.org feels a little more complete now...
[17:48] <LaserJock> ok, so now we need 8.04
[17:48] <LaserJock> that should be mostly a copy-n-paste
[17:48] <nubae> yeah, I'll check the seed
[17:49] <nubae> so when  have 8.04, I'll seperate the applications page to show an intro explaining about the desktop and artwork packages briefly, and showing the distro list links
[17:50] <nubae> btw, I have a desktop for jaunty for u to look at... whats u're email?
[17:51] <LaserJock><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:52] <nubae> sent, tell me what u think
[17:53] <LaserJock> lol
[17:54]  * nubae has too much time on his hands
[17:54] <LaserJock> that's rather funny
[17:56] <Ahmuck> is there no way to "query" the distro?
[17:56] <Ahmuck> er, release
[17:56] <LaserJock> I guess since we don't have to worry about .iso size anymore we could include more artwork
[17:57] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: like you want to find what release somebody is running?
[17:57] <Ahmuck> yes
[17:57] <LaserJock> cat /etc/lsb-release
[18:01] <Ahmuck> can you do that from the web page
[18:01] <Ahmuck> query the release and then point to that release page?
[18:01] <Ahmuck> actually, this is possible via the browser iirc
[18:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:01] <LaserJock> I think that's the usual way
[18:06] <Ahmuck> k, i'm up for the challenge of fixing my multiple nics and getting the fat clients to work
[18:06] <nubae> linkified...
[18:09] <nubae> well first remove every eth except eth0 and eth1 in your /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[18:18] <LaserJock> is 18:00 UTC an ok time for a meeting?
[18:20] <Ahmuck> sure
[18:20] <Ahmuck> what is 1800 UTC ?
[18:20] <nubae> universal time
[18:20] <Ahmuck> is there a UTC chart i can view
[18:20] <nubae> let, me check what that is in Euro time...
[18:20] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: where are you?
[18:20] <LaserJock> CST?
[18:21] <LaserJock> depending on where in Europe you add 1 or 2 hours
[18:22] <Ahmuck> usa
[18:22] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: ah, what time zone?
[18:22] <nubae> yeah 1 for me
[18:22] <Ahmuck> central
[18:23] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: then you are UTC -6
[18:23] <LaserJock> so it would be noon
[18:24] <LaserJock> how's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda look for a start of an agenda?
[18:25] <nubae> yah kool
[18:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> # PCI device 0x11ab:0x4320 (skge)
[18:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> # PCI device 0x10de:0x0057 (forcedeth)
[18:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> k, what is the difference between forcedeth and skge ?
[18:26] <Ahmuck-Jr> ah, nm
[18:26] <Ahmuck-Jr> one is the nvidia (forcedeth) and the other is the other nic
[18:26] <nubae> yeah and the nvidia driver is kaput
[18:27] <Ahmuck-Jr> k, that's done
[18:27] <Ahmuck-Jr> now what?
[18:27] <nubae> u have only 2 entries in there now?
[18:27] <Ahmuck> yes
[18:27] <nubae> make sure your mac address corresponds correctly
[18:33] <Ahmuck-Jr> k
[18:42] <Ahmuck-Jr> er, done
[18:55] <nubae> well I have to get going... new year's and all... so have a good one
[18:56] <alkisg> Happy new year nubae - and everyone
[18:56] <Ahmuck> yes, happy new years
[19:29]  * LaserJock generates more bugmail spam :-)
[21:31] <penguinhunters> Gotta question...  Using ltsp for the first time with edubuntu 8.10... We are configuring it for a private school.  I have the server the way I want it... When booting from the thin client it will pull up the graphical login screen, I can log in but after it recognizes my credentials, it black screens and locks up... I have asked in #ltsp but no response... Any ideas?
[22:43] <Eeyore-Jr> anybody up today ?
[22:46] <HedgeMage> I'm semi-here
[22:55] <Eeyore-Jr> used digtal vidoe on linux?
[22:56] <Eeyore-Jr> kdenlive or kino or openmovie editor
[22:56] <Eeyore-Jr> i'm getting an error when i try to capture.  something about 1394 kernal module not being loaded
[22:59] <Eeyore-Jr> nm, it looks like 8.10 solves that.  i'm on kde 8.04.1
[22:59] <Eeyore-Jr> i'll need to install xubuntu on this pc to get it to work propelr or open box
[23:16] <HedgeMage> Sorry, I've not tried any of that.


[20:16] <poolie> good morning
[20:36] <rick_h> afternoon poolie
[20:37] <poolie> hi rick_h
[20:56] <thumper> morning
[21:24] <poolie> lifeless, could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/ec2-update/+merge/81946 (pretty small)
[22:41] <lifeless> can has review ? https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops-wsgi/bug-888866/+merge/82088


[00:34] <babbageclunk> thumper, perrito666, redir: Anyone up for a review? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6544
[00:49] <redir> babbageclunk: someone lookin?
[00:50] <babbageclunk> redir: I think thumper said he would.
[00:50] <redir> ack
[00:50] <babbageclunk> haha, mistyped that as thumber first
[00:51] <thumper> yeah, I'm looking
[01:27] <thumper> babbageclunk: sorry for the delay
[01:27] <babbageclunk> thumper: no worries
[01:27] <thumper> got myself confused with something in the review
[01:27] <thumper> but all good
[01:45] <babbageclunk> veebers: my build failed due to lack of memory: http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/github-merge-juju/9627/console
[01:45] <babbageclunk> veebers: can you give something a kick?  It should get through this time
[02:16] <babbageclunk> veebers: Thanks!
[02:20] <veebers> babbageclunk: nw, let me know if you have any other issues
[02:40] <thumper> poo
[02:40] <thumper> something screwy is happening
[02:53] <veebers> thumper: with CI? (he asks after having removed some machines)
[03:21] <thumper> veebers: no, with migration
[03:39] <thumper> babbageclunk: around to be a rubber duck?
[03:43] <babbageclunk> thumper: sure - actually I could use a rubber duck in turn
[03:44] <thumper> ok, 1:1 HO?
[10:20] <mup> Bug #1640113 opened: In LXD machines in localdomain not resolvable <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1640113>
[10:34] <SimonKLB> uhm, i just deployed wordpress+mysql on one machine and haproxy on another then BOOM it deployed 15 machines all of a sudden on aws
[10:34] <SimonKLB> i have no idea how that happened
[11:04] <perrito666> morning all
[11:43] <dooferlad> mgz: is http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/github-merge-develop-to-staging/ really the merge develop to staging job?
[11:43]  * dooferlad has a conflict I can't resolve because develop hasn't merged back into staging
[12:25] <mgz> dooferlad: that should be it
[12:35] <mgz> dooferlad: if you want to actually land your branch you'll need to merge the conflicting change from staging into it to resolve (or rebase on later change)
[15:08] <rick_h> voidspace: can you join the other #juju please and help someone out?
[15:08] <voidspace> rick_h: #juju on canonical?
[15:08] <rick_h> voidspace: yes please
[15:08] <voidspace> rick_h: in standup now, but will take a look as well
[15:08] <rick_h> K
[15:11] <natefinch> rick_h: standup?
[15:12] <rick_h> natefinch: can't ATM. About to give a lightening talk.
[15:12] <natefinch> rick_h: kk
[15:12] <rick_h> Phone irc'ing while in line
[15:12] <natefinch> ahh
[15:26] <aisrael> Is there a reason why action names can't include numbers, i.e., an action named iperf3 will throw a "ERROR bad action name iperf3" when trying to deploy/upgrade the charm.
[15:34] <voidspace> at the moment my girl is at "science club" on Tuesdays, so I can stay for the whole of standup
[15:35] <voidspace> just FYI
[15:35] <voidspace> and I have a hospital appointment tomorrow morning
[15:36] <mgz> science club sounds fun
[15:38] <voidspace> mgz: only her second one today, they made a dinosaur tooth last week but she really wants explosions which they have been promised at some point by "Atomic Tom" who takes it...
[15:39] <mgz> ehehe, in it for the bangs
[15:39] <voidspace> always
[15:39] <voidspace> :-)
[15:40] <voidspace> katco: o/
[15:47] <voidspace> uhm, nope, my hospital appointment is Thursday morning
[15:48] <voidspace> perrito666: can you answer aisrael's question about actions?
[15:48] <voidspace> aisrael: I suspect the answer maybe "no good reason"... Can you file a bug about it?
[15:49] <natefinch> AFAIK, no good reason
[15:49] <natefinch> var actionNameRule = regexp.MustCompile("^[a-z](?:[a-z-]*[a-z])?$")
[15:49] <aisrael> voidspace: Yep, I'll do that. I figured if it was for a reason, the docs/charm tools need to be updated to reflect it.
[15:49] <voidspace> aisrael: yep
[15:49] <voidspace> aisrael: natefinch: looks easy to fix then...
[15:50] <aisrael> voidspace: natefinch: excellent, thanks. Filing a bug now.
[15:50] <voidspace> assuming there is no good reason
[15:50] <voidspace> aisrael: if we find a reason we'll let you know :-D
[16:18] <perrito666> voidspace: no, I dont know why that is
[16:38] <dooferlad> voidspace: do you know why we have a networking interface defined for vsphere? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1638401 exists because provider/vsphere/environ_network.go exists
[16:38] <mup> Bug #1638401: vsphere: spaces spams the logs with an error <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638401>
[16:39] <perrito666> dooferlad: that was done by third party so they might have just cargo culted
[16:39] <dooferlad> perrito666: ah, thanks
[16:57] <voidspace> dooferlad: no, no idea
[16:58] <dooferlad> voidspace: no worries, the question was answered by perrito666.
[16:58] <voidspace> dooferlad: cool :-)
[17:07] <perrito666> bbl relocation
[19:11]  * redir steps out to vote and grab lunch on the way back.
[19:32] <perrito666> bbl
[20:20] <thumper> o/ babbageclunk
[20:21] <babbageclunk> morning thumper!
[20:22] <babbageclunk> exciting day today
[20:23] <perrito666> back
[20:23] <SimonKLB> seeing this when bootstraping an LXD controller: ERROR juju.state database.go:231 using unknown collection "remoteApplications"
[20:23] <SimonKLB> any ideas?
[20:24] <SimonKLB> 2.0.1-xenial-amd64
[20:25] <thumper> babbageclunk: terrifying day you mean?
[20:25] <thumper> babbageclunk: I worked out how to work around the bug in migrations to finish QAing my branch
[20:25] <babbageclunk> thumper: yes, that
[20:25] <babbageclunk> thumper: oh, nice!
[20:25] <thumper> so doing that now
[20:26] <babbageclunk> thumper: I think I worked out an approach to sharing some of the code in logsink, trying it out.
[20:28] <perrito666> SimonKLB: oh, that looks like a bug, what bootstrap command did you use?
[20:30] <SimonKLB> perrito666: just `juju bootstrap localhost a-name`
[20:31] <SimonKLB> i saw this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/cross-model-relations/+bug/1634956
[20:31] <mup> Bug #1634956: unknown remoteApplications on deploy <ci> <deploy> <jujuqa> <juju:Incomplete> <juju cross-model-relations:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634956>
[20:31] <SimonKLB> but in my case it was right away after the controller was installed
[20:31] <SimonKLB> i didnt deploy anything
[20:32] <perrito666> SimonKLB: I see, I believe we can work around this bug by setting a flag, let me look for it
[20:33]  * redir back
[20:35] <thumper> babbageclunk: hazaar, have now confirmed it works
[20:47] <perrito666> SimonKLB: JUJU_DEV_FEATURE_FLAGS=cross-model
[20:49] <SimonKLB> perrito666: great, thanks! i realized why i saw it early btw, it shows up when i run juju status
[21:16] <thumper> babbageclunk: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6548
[21:17] <babbageclunk> thumper: ooh, longish - let me finish the thought I'm sketching out then I'll review yours.
[21:18] <thumper> babbageclunk: ta
[22:13] <babbageclunk> thumper: Sorry, got a bit caught up in the weeds there. Can you look at this https://github.com/juju/juju/commit/eafd1f8286d4898907bf826af12c8512b1e76f8a and tell me what you think of the approach?
[22:13] <babbageclunk> thumper: reviewing your PR now
[22:13] <thumper> ok
[22:14] <thumper> babbageclunk: where should I comment?
[22:16] <babbageclunk> thumper: not sure. On the commit? Or here is fine.
[22:19] <thumper> newStrategy as a member of logSinkHandler seems weird, dbStrategy ?
[22:19] <thumper> is it always a db strategy?
[22:21] <babbageclunk> Well, it's a func that makes a strategy (because the strategy is stateful).
[22:21] <thumper> ugh....
[22:21] <thumper> it is doing two things, and I think it should do one
[22:22] <babbageclunk> thumper: it's always a db strategy, but it also has an opinion about the log file prefix.
[22:22] <thumper> should be a dbStrategy and a fileStrategy
[22:22] <thumper> I don't think the migration logs should be put into the same file as the logsink file
[22:22] <babbageclunk> thumper: no, they wouldn't - I'd expect that we'd give it a different directory
[22:23] <thumper> hmm...
[22:23] <thumper> like what?
[22:25] <babbageclunk> I guess it depends how we want the migrated logs to look after the migration is finished.
[22:25] <babbageclunk> Should they be in the same places they would've been on the source controller machine?
[22:26] <babbageclunk> Or is it ok to have them mashed in to one place? Basically I haven't thought about the file side of it.
[22:27] <thumper> the logsink file is really just a backup of the logs that the controller has received
[22:28] <thumper> not normally meant for user consumption
[22:28] <babbageclunk> Right - so we mostly care about the DB logs then?
[22:28] <thumper> much more, yes
[22:29] <babbageclunk> ok
[22:29] <thumper> I'm just thinking about how much we care about migration logs on the disk of the controller
[22:29] <thumper> problem is that it won't get rolled
[22:29] <thumper> unlikely to be too big, but you never know
[22:29] <thumper> and how many we may have on any particular controller
[22:29] <babbageclunk> True - it could be big, although it's not growing.
[22:30]  * thumper nods
[22:32] <babbageclunk> A different file prefix sounds alright to start with then.
[22:33] <thumper> yeah
[22:33] <babbageclunk> Also, these are model logs - I was thinking about controller logs, which have much more in them, right?
[22:34] <thumper> true
[22:34] <thumper> although I have been talking with menno about how to make the models have the apiserver logs for that model
[22:34] <thumper> so, small for now
[22:43] <mgz> thumper: yo, you wanted a repo bot-managed?
[22:44] <thumper> it already is
[22:44] <thumper> so no worries
[22:51] <babbageclunk> thumper: oops, misunderstood what fileprefix was doing there - I thought it was a filename prefix, not a log line prefix
[22:54] <babbageclunk> thumper: In that case maybe I move all of the logging into the strategy, as well as the version number parsing.
[22:54]  * thumper nods
[22:55] <babbageclunk> thumper: not at all attached to the name strategy, by the way, if you can think of something better - just picked something so I could try it.
[22:55] <mgz> thumper: as in, someone did it yesterday, or we'd done it before and forgot?
[23:20] <babbageclunk> thumper: reviewd
[23:20] <babbageclunk> e


[00:23] <VIA> OMG seems working again! thank you so much
[07:14] <xu-irc0w> screen freezes except cursor. screen is hamtysan 7" display. how to fix?
[07:16] <xu-irc0w> works for 10 minutes or so and then unresponsive to mouse. screen works but unresponsive to mouse. can switch to tty.
[07:17] <xu-irc0w> have to reboot continuously to use.
[07:21] <gnrp> xu-irc0w: When you press Ctrl+Alt+F1, do you get to a login prompt?
[07:22] <xu-irc0w> yes.
[07:23] <gnrp> ah, sorry, didn't read you said that already
[07:24] <gnrp> the screen becomes unresponsive to the mouse, but the cursor does not freeze? How do you mean that?
[07:24] <gnrp> does it happen after inactivity or in general after about ten minutes?
[07:25] <xu-irc0w> the screen freezes, the mouse moves on the screen, i can switch to tty, the screen doesn't respond to mouse clicks/hovers.
[07:27] <gnrp> xu-irc0w: Maybe log in to a terminal then and paste the content of the command `dmesg` and the files /var/log/syslog and /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[07:27] <gnrp> !paste
[07:43] <xu-irc98w> gnrp, https://dpaste.com/3NAP6H7UA https://dpaste.com/DDV46NM2Q https://ufile.io/0t6av3ou
[07:44] <xu-irc0w> gnrp: ^
[07:45] <xu-irc98w> https://dpaste.com/3NAP6H7UA https://dpaste.com/DDV46NM2Q https://ufile.io/0t6av3ou
[07:46] <xu-irc0w> gnrp: dmesg, syslog, and xorg.0.log above (xu-irc98w)
[07:48] <xu-irc0w> screen unresponsive again btw, i posted those links from the machine in question before screen unresponsive.
[07:51] <gnrp> hrm, and he's gone..
[08:01] <xu-irc0w> any help w/ the unresponsive hamtysan 7" display? dmesg, syslog, and xorg.0.log above.
[08:01] <gnrp> xu-irc0w: You were gone
[08:01] <xu-irc0w> (irc keeps disconnecting)
[08:02] <gnrp> xu-irc0w: Sorry, I wasn'T clear about it. You should make these things once it is crashed
[08:02] <gnrp> they are the logfiles, so one might be seeing what is going wrong
[08:02] <gnrp> I btw think it is unrelated to the display
[08:03] <xu-irc0w> i'll repost
[08:07] <xu-irc98w> gnrp: https://ufile.io/f/wzuvd
[08:09] <xu-irc0w> gnrp: did you just get the files from xu-irc98w?
[08:09] <xu-irc0w> just now
[08:14] <xu-irc0w> those files are right after the unresponsiveness
[08:40] <xu-irc0w> hamtysan 7" display unresponsive after 10 minutes or so, the mouse moves on the screen, i can switch to tty, the screen doesn't respond to mouse clicks/hovers. i reboot to work on it for 10 minutes and then unresponsive again. how to fix?
[08:40] <xu-irc0w> dmesg, /var/log/syslog, /var/log/Xorg.0.log: https://ufile.io/f/np5et
[08:40] <xu-irc0w> https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=9419d4d25c
[08:40] <xu-irc0w> (irc keeps disconnecting)
[08:51] <xu-irc0w> is it the kernel? hwprobe says gpu: Driver is not found or not configured. You need to update kernel to version 5.17 or newer for the device to work properly.
[09:03] <xu-irc0w> i'm in t.me/XubuntuSupport if you can help, same msg there, irc keeps disconnecting
[10:23] <xu-irc0w> is there a fix?


[04:26] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: ping
[04:26] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, nvm
[04:27] <pleia2> k
[04:32] <bkerensa> jono_: man Idk if that beer session was great for me :P I ended up take a nice nap after and got no work done
[04:33] <jono_> bkerensa, hah, nice :-)
[04:33] <bkerensa> jono_: friday is bbq session right? I have wifi out on my patio :)
[04:34] <jono_> bkerensa, oh nice :-)
[04:34] <jono_> I might do some steak
[04:34]  * jono_ is working on the UAK right now
[05:02] <jono_> bkerensa, around?
[05:28] <bkerensa> jono_: yeah
[05:28] <jono_> bkerensa, hey, can I sign you up for a UAK work item or two?
[05:28] <bkerensa> :s
[05:29] <bkerensa> jono_: what did you have in mind? :)
[05:29] <jono_> you have some great experience writing docs, so can I ask you to write some docs about organizing events?
[05:29] <jono_> bkerensa, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-uak-first-release
[05:30] <pleia2> a fair amount can probably be taken from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase#LoCo_Activities
[05:30] <jono_> indeed
[05:30] <pleia2> the installfests and release party pages have lots of good info :)
[05:31] <jono_> pleia2, your point today about the UAK not being ready resonated with me, so I want to try get a simple first cut of 1.0 ready
[05:31] <jono_> and for us to ensure we curate the docs in the future so the kit always remains lean but up to date
[05:31] <pleia2> jono_: I was clued in later that it was talked about earlier in the day, I was really happy to hear that
[05:31] <pleia2> it's a great idea, just need to execute ;)
[05:31] <jono_> pleia2, indeed :-)
[05:31] <bkerensa> jono_: sure I can write something up
[05:31] <jono_> putting together a blueprint and I am going to knock on doors to write some content
[05:31] <pleia2> \o/
[05:32] <jono_> I think we could get something cohesive this month
[05:32] <bkerensa> its the 15th already
[05:32] <bkerensa> :)
[05:32] <jono_> knome also contributed some flavor logos :-)
[05:32] <jono_> thanks bkerensa
[05:32] <bkerensa> you are optimistic
[05:32] <jono_> bkerensa, we can do it :-)
[05:32] <pleia2> he's great at keeping on top of those
[05:32] <jono_> bkerensa, can I put you down for how to organize a booth?
[05:32] <jono_> bkerensa, and maybe the page for organizing a jam too?
[05:34] <bkerensa> jono_: booth is fine and jam works
[05:34] <jono_> bkerensa, awesome, thanks
[05:34] <jono_> bkerensa, I am adding additional docs for how to contribute to the kit
[05:35] <bkerensa> jono_: I will have to give you soap when you come up in July
[05:35]  * bkerensa is soap maker now
[05:35] <jono_> bkerensa, sweet :-)
[05:44] <jono_> bkerensa, okl
[05:44] <bkerensa> jono_: did the certificates work out?
[05:44] <bkerensa> jono_: also have you got a Gandi domain yet? :)
[05:45] <jono_> if you subscribe to the PPA when the package builds next you can see the docs for how to contribute
[05:45] <jono_> bkerensa, yep the certs are being printed
[05:45] <jono_> waiting for michelle to send them to Mark
[05:45] <jono_> unfortunately we won't be able to send all existing members a cert
[05:45] <jono_> too expensive
[05:45] <jono_> there are 700+ members
[05:46] <jono_> but when members renew membership they can apply for a cert
[05:46] <bkerensa> yeah
[05:46] <jono_> bkerensa, so you are helping to kickstart the docs team, right?
[05:46] <bkerensa> jono_: yeah
[05:47] <jono_> bkerensa, would you be interested in helping to get the docs team involved in the UAK content development?
[05:47] <jono_> could be a fun project
[05:48] <bkerensa> jono_: well atm we do not have enough hands to do Ubuntu Docs... That might be a nice goal for next cycle or something
[05:48] <jono_> bkerensa, might be cool to build some buzz on your blog to get people involved
[05:49] <bkerensa> jono_: yeah we had a decent turnout at the session of people that want to get involved we just need to improve the docs and document processes and then begin onboarding
[05:49] <jono_> cool
[05:49] <jono_> we can discuss some of this in the roundtable
[05:51] <jono_> ok bed for me
[05:51] <jono_> see you tomorrow, folks
[06:35] <dholbach> good morning
[06:37] <smartboyhw> Hello dholbach:)
[06:37] <dholbach> hi smartboyhw
[06:37] <smartboyhw> Meh, our class went for a very low passing rate for a geography OPEN BOOK test:P
[06:37] <JoseeAntonioR> hey, D!
[06:38] <smartboyhw> JoseeAntonioR: Hey
[06:38] <JoseeAntonioR> hey smartboyhw :)
[13:59] <JoseeAntonioR> hey jono, you joining the Q&A systems session?
[14:00] <jono> JoseeAntonioR, unfortunately not
[14:00] <JoseeAntonioR> hmm, ok then, no problem
[14:00] <jono> were you expecting me to be there?
[14:01] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, I thought you were going to see the pros+cons
[14:01] <jono> JoseeAntonioR, you should have mentioned you expected me there, and I would have marked it in my cal
[14:01] <jono> this slot is bad for me as I am looking after my son for this hour
[14:02] <jono> sorry for the misunderstanding
[14:02] <jono> jcastro, are you going to the session?
[14:02] <JoseeAntonioR> no worries :)
[14:02] <jcastro> jono: we have a juju session now
[14:03] <jono> JoseeAntonioR, I will catch the hangout later and then we can discuss afterwards
[14:03] <jono> thanks for your understanding JoseeAntonioR, and thanks for running the session
[14:03] <jono> jcastro, np
[14:03] <JoseeAntonioR> no worries :)
[14:03] <JoseeAntonioR> jono: that's fine
[14:04] <jcastro> I am cancelling a juju session later
[14:04] <jcastro> if you want to move it
[14:23] <JoseeAntonioR> jono: I don't know if you have any suggestions for this, or if you want to say anything
[14:51] <JoseeAntonioR> jono: hey, please let me know how will I proceed with IS to continue with the project (if it's going to be done)
[15:00] <jcastro> hey so to me I don't think this software is any better than what's on lp answers
[15:02] <jono> thanks JoseeAntonioR
[15:02] <jono> dpm are you doing core apps next?
[15:03] <JoseeAntonioR> jcastro: it's like saying askubuntu is not any better than LP answers
[15:03] <JoseeAntonioR> like, stackexchange itselg
[15:04] <jcastro> but afaict shapado doesn't have reviews and editing
[15:04] <jcastro> that's like, the crux of the entire thing
[15:05] <jono> balloons, dholbach who is running the next session?
[15:05] <jono> dpm you there?
[15:06] <dholbach> jono, I'm running "Ubuntu Touch Porting" one, balloons the other one
[15:06] <JoseeAntonioR> jcastro: as far as I know it does have those features, can we discuss this a bit later?
[15:06] <jono> thanks, guys
[15:06] <jono> mhall119, who is running core apps?
[15:06] <jono> is that you?
[15:06] <mhall119> jono: yes
[15:06] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9d84b48b6e659cdab7ffd5f0caa3dc2ada095f4e?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:06] <jono> thanks
[15:06] <jcastro> JoseeAntonioR: sure, I'm in a session myself
[15:06] <JoseeAntonioR> thanks :)
[15:07] <IdleOne> jono: http://techrights.org/2013/05/15/ubuntu-and-microsoft-veteran/
[15:07] <jono> IdleOne, I saw that
[15:07] <jcastro> hah, that site still exists?
[15:07] <IdleOne> jono: k. :)
[15:08] <jono> IdleOne, I am going to leave a comment
[15:08] <IdleOne> That is why I mentioned it.
[15:08] <IdleOne> seems most of it is half truth
[15:11] <jcastro> wow
[15:11] <jcastro> you can't make this stuff up
[15:15] <dpm> jono, sorry, I'm there yes, but we're running the sessions on the appdev room
[15:15] <dpm> mhall119 is doing the core apps one
[15:15] <dpm> I'm running room 2
[15:52] <jcastro> jono: you did not +1 my post about pork chops
[15:52]  * jcastro shakes fist
[15:56] <jono> dholbach, thanks for the summary
[15:56] <jono> you did even before I asked :-)
[15:56] <jono> it is as if we have worked together for a while :-)
[15:56] <dholbach> jono, anytime
[15:56] <dholbach> jono, don't worry - it's not like I can anticipate ALL your thoughts yet
[15:56] <jono> dholbach, lol
[15:56] <dholbach> not sure if that's desirable :-P
[15:57]  * dholbach hugs jono
[15:57] <jono> dholbach, :-)
[15:57] <jono> dholbach, I might some more specific detail on these
[15:57] <jono> can we discuss briefly in the lunch session?
[15:58] <jono> take 10 mins for me to ask a bunch of questions about sessions you were in
[15:58] <dholbach> jono, shall we do it right after the roundtable?
[15:58] <jono> dholbach, sure
[15:58] <dholbach> perfect
[15:58] <dholbach> oh and I realise I missed one - let me go back
[15:59] <jono> balloons, hey
[16:00] <balloons> jono, pong
[16:00] <jono> balloons, I would like to ask you to provide a summary of all the key decisions throughout the testing sessions this week
[16:00] <jono> I will ask you to summarize these in the final session
[16:00] <balloons> sounds fun :-) I'm trying to keep tabs
[16:00] <jono> please provide concrete decisions that were made and plans
[16:00] <jono> dpm can you coordinate this with balloons?
[16:01] <jono> just take a little time during lunch to finalize this
[16:01] <dholbach> jono, I'll start the roundtable session
[16:01] <jono> thanks dh
[16:01] <jono> thanks dholbach
[16:03] <balloons> i have the ubuntu touch image testing session ;-)
[16:03] <dpm> jono, ok. balloons, let's sync up during lunch
[16:03] <jono> thanks, guys
[16:03] <balloons> dpm, ohh a lunch date!
[16:04] <dpm> :P
[16:35] <nigelb> jcastro: hah "I hear that guy is pretty awesome." re: chriscoulson :)
[16:35] <jcastro> heh
[16:54] <dpm> balloons, I'll be preparing my own notes for the appdev track now. Shall we do a quick hangout in ~30?
[16:55] <balloons> dpm, same.. let's review at 17:40
[16:55] <dpm> balloons, sounds good
[17:51] <balloons> dholbach, jono I have th Scaling Translations using Tech session
[17:53] <dholbach> cool
[18:05] <jono> dholbach, can you invite me to your sess?
[18:05] <dholbach> sure
[18:05] <dholbach> jono, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9b9c3a9946df787f1eba35e7fe8752bbe4aa3491?authuser=0
[18:06] <PabloRubianes> jono, have a minute for a quick PM?
[18:06] <jono> PabloRubianes, sure
[18:23] <JoseeAntonioR> well, time for real lunch for me
[18:50] <airurando> quick question about the Ubuntu Advocacy Kit.
[18:50] <airurando> The wiki page install instructions appear slightly off
[18:51] <airurando> the final command sudo apt-get install uak yields E: Unable to locate package uak under 12.04
[18:53] <airurando> jono's email to the loco_contacts mailing list today differed in that final command
[18:53] <airurando> jono stipulated sudo apt-get install uak-en
[18:53] <jono> airurando, apt-get install uak-en
[18:53] <airurando> thanks jono
[18:54] <airurando> should the wiki page be changed?
[18:54] <airurando> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Advocacy%20Kit%20%28UAK%29/Installing
[18:55] <jono> airurando, if you could, thanks!
[18:55] <airurando> will do
[18:57] <airurando> done
[19:18] <bkerensa> cjohnston: I am talking with the Security and Privacy Teams now RE that link cprofitt posted and should have an answer shortly
[19:20] <cjohnston> k
[19:21] <bkerensa> cjohnston: I just clarified with the Security Team and they said not only has Mozilla responded to NSS Labs in blog posts but apparently so has Opera
[19:21] <bkerensa> they consider NSS Labs study to be inconclusive due to the limited testing they did
[19:21] <bkerensa> cjohnston: http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2011/07/20/nss-labs
[19:22] <bkerensa> I am trying to see which our best responses have been on the Mozilla side but I will also see about getting a new response to this out the door
[19:22] <bkerensa> cjohnston: apparently NSS labs has always ranked IE as the most secure
[20:00] <dpm> \o/
[20:01] <dholbach> :-D
[20:02] <dholbach> all right, I call it a day - see you all - and enjoy the party! :)
[20:02] <JoseeAntonioR> KARAOKE!
[20:03] <mhall119> man, I'm exhausted now
[20:03] <dpm> same here, same here :)
[20:03] <jcastro> LOL
[20:03] <jcastro> http://whereschuck.org/
[20:04] <dpm> it's been a good one, though
[20:04] <JoseeAntonioR> that page is bookmarked
[20:05] <bkerensa> lol
[20:05] <bkerensa> damn
[20:05] <bkerensa> :(
[20:05] <jcastro> the one with him in the viking helmet is the best
[20:05] <bkerensa> almost gave me a seizure
[20:05] <bkerensa> lol
[20:05] <bkerensa> canadian maple much
[20:06] <SergioMeneses> jajajaja
[20:06] <SergioMeneses> always is fun to read this channel
[20:07] <JoseeAntonioR> now, where's max singing lady gaga's?
[20:33] <balloons> jcastro, that page hurts my brain
[20:33] <balloons> so so so so so much


[00:20] <whoo> yes
[00:21] <whoo> len_1304: I have the tascam
[00:25] <whoo> the Shure mic has 1/4" plug. It came with the Tascam I bought off this band of young musicians. I thing they used it direct into the Tascam, as I did.
[00:25] <whoo> The mic that is. The Tascam has 1/4" in
[00:26] <whoo> The plug is on a detachable cord with that funky fitting at the mic end
[00:31] <whoo> Is it ok to plug an acoustic guitar into the 'mic amp' ? Or would the guitar need a seperate interface ?
[00:34] <holstein> whoo: "ok" is a matter of opinion
[00:34] <holstein> whoo: what would a studio do?
[00:34] <holstein> not use 1/4" inputs for mics
[00:35] <whoo> Thats all I have at the moment
[00:35] <holstein> whoo: then roll with it
[00:35] <holstein> it'll look like this "is it ok to use the only cable i have?" .. and since its the only one, go for it
[00:35] <whoo> I have never reorded a single noise on a computer...so...
[00:35] <holstein> you wont break anything
[00:35] <holstein> just turn the volumes/gains down when plugging
[00:36] <whoo> but I do need an amp of some kind for   the mic
[00:36] <holstein> whoo: preamp
[00:36] <whoo> right ....
[00:36] <holstein> you whould have one.. but again, "need" is a matter of opinino
[00:36] <holstein> opinion*
[00:36] <whoo> I have the teac
[00:37] <holstein> and, you dont have one... and unless you are going to go pick on up right now, i wouldnt worry about it
[00:37] <whoo> tascam
[00:37] <holstein> i would use what you have, and see what comes up for you
[00:37] <holstein> see what works, and what doesnt and why
[00:37] <holstein> try and get decent multi-tasking gear
[00:37] <whoo> I just have to get the thing plugged in and then figure out what to do ?
[00:38] <whoo> I have no gear as far as I know
[00:38] <whoo> just instruments
[00:38] <holstein> well, if you've gont one kind of cable, and one kind of input.. plug it in
[00:39] <whoo> If I just want to plug straight in, then I need to use a 1/4" to mini adapter, which I have
[00:39] <whoo> Even if its just to see how bad it can sound
[00:40] <holstein> whoo: i dont know what "straight in" means, but yes. use the least amount of adapters and plug in
[00:40] <whoo> Straight in to the line in at the back of my compaq presario desktop  computer
[00:41] <holstein> whoo: is there any other way?
[00:41] <whoo> I gueaa us, but thats not where I am yet
[00:41] <whoo> I guess
[00:41] <holstein> ideally, you would have an interface.. with either balanced in's, or a preamp
[00:42] <holstein> if you have only the internal sound card, then thats where you are going in
[00:42] <holstein> if you have no preamps, then you arent going to be using a preamp
[00:42] <holstein> if you have *any* kind of mixer.. you can use the preamps on it, and come out of the mixer into the sound card
[00:43] <whoo> I guess I could drag out my Tascam as a pramp
[00:44] <holstein> whoo: if you are using a mic, its a good idea to have a mic preamp
[00:45] <whoo> the Tascam Portastudio could be the preamp I figger
[00:46] <holstein> if it has xlr inputs, and outputs that you can adapt to the computer
[00:46] <whoo> I'll have to check, it's been years
[00:47] <holstein> whoo: i would get *all* of the gear you have.. get it out, and figure out what works, and how to use it... and what else you need
[00:48] <whoo> I guess my real concern was how to plug into the computer, and I suppose that will be the mini jack
[00:49] <holstein> whoo: thats all there is
[00:49] <whoo> I know that usb is popular but not yet
[00:49] <holstein> whoo: you have, at best, a mic in and a line in
[00:49] <holstein> whoo: i usually try both
[00:49] <whoo> yes....mic in and line in
[00:49] <holstein> you are going to have to fool about and see what yeilds the best sound
[00:49] <whoo> are they rated differently ?
[00:49] <holstein> whoo: one is a mic in and one is a line it
[00:50] <whoo> mic is what...-10db ?
[00:50] <len_1304> mic is -50
[00:50] <holstein> whoo: i have no idea.. and it wont be consistent.. or the same
[00:50] <holstein> its consumer grade stuff
[00:50] <holstein> when that says "mic".. that is talking about skype
[00:50] <holstein> not making a CD
[00:51] <whoo> right, just like my music...consumer grade
[00:51] <holstein> i usually plug into both and sweep around volumes and gain to see what yeilds the best result
[00:51] <whoo> the best way...
[00:52] <holstein> whoo: you cant do the best way
[00:52] <holstein> whoo: you'll need to determine what will be the best with what you have
[00:52] <whoo> the best way with what I got...
[00:52] <holstein> whoo: sure.. and that will require trial and error
[00:53] <holstein> whoo: i usually start tracking.. and i sweep through the volumes and listen to the results and see what i like best.. taking notes as to what the settings are
[00:53] <whoo> So, once I plug in the mic, which software should I start with to record a simple noise ?
[00:53] <holstein> there are controls on the mixer.. or in your case, the tascam.. ther are controls on the machine
[00:53] <holstein> whoo: whatever you are comfortable with
[00:53] <holstein> audacity is easy
[00:53] <whoo> yea there are
[00:54] <holstein> i start a track, and sweep trough the possiblities
[00:55] <whoo> ok...yes the Tascam will have lots of adjustables
[00:56] <whoo> Ok....gotta go get another adapter for the guitar pickup cord
[00:57] <whoo> before the wife gets home ....ahem
[00:57] <whoo> thanks for the direction
[01:07] <antto> my toy: http://i.imgur.com/DvVbgYf.jpg
[05:24] <odave> What source has cinelrella ?
[05:24] <holstein> odave: ?
[05:25] <odave> It was said to be a good fx for video tool...
[05:26] <holstein> odave: what is your question?. "good" is a matter of opinion. i know lots of folks use it and like it
[05:27] <odave> nevermind, google turns up cinelrella.org
[05:33] <holstein> odave: its in the repos
[05:38] <odave> will look again with 3rd party etc. turned on,  just brought this installation of 12.10 up today.
[05:42] <holstein> odave: actually, i added a ppa https://launchpad.net/~cinelerra-ppa/+archive/ppa
[10:20] <martl> let's keep it down in here ok???
[10:28] <zequence-s> martl, yo
[10:36] <martl> zequence-s
[10:37] <martl> I was getting lonely almost
[10:38] <zequence-s> martl, Well, it is kind of hard to hear what people are saying with all this shouting going on in here
[10:41] <zequence-s> I'm not getting this one
[10:41] <zequence-s> http://thisiswhyicode.blogspot.se/2013/03/an-infinite-number-of-mathematicians.html
[10:42] <antto> hahah
[10:42] <martl> cuz he was there first...the progression
[10:43] <martl> the bartenderhe gets 2 beers
[10:43] <antto> if you pour 1 hole beer, and then pour an infinite amount of beers each half the size of the previous one - you will end up pouring another beer
[10:43] <zequence-s> Ok, cause it didn't say who he was pouring the two beers for
[10:44] <martl> for himself
[10:45] <jacobi> hello iam dutch
[10:45] <martl> If each guy gets half as much beer as the guy who entered befiore him, the bartender, who was there first, would get twice as much as the first guy....2 beers
[10:46] <martl> Maybe ?
[10:55] <zequence-s> Well, it only makes sense, if the bartender is a drunk
[10:56] <zequence-s> Well, ok. It's starting to sink in now a little
[10:57] <zequence-s> That guy makes some funny postings
[10:59] <martl> I'm thinkin the bartender is just playing along with their silly progression, just to show them that even though he dropped out of school and bypassed college for a career in food and beverage, that he still was no slouch
[11:00] <zequence-s> Yeah, I guess that's the point of the joke. For some reason, I just thought it would have something to do with mathematics
[11:02] <zequence-s> Is there something Ubuntu Studio should be shipping, that we aren't currently?
[11:06] <martl> like what?
[11:07] <zequence-s> Well, anything available in the repos really
[11:07] <martl> just updayts...?
[11:07] <zequence-s> I'm more referring to what we are including in our metas
[11:08] <zequence-s> The stuff we ship on our ISO,
[11:08] <martl> like dist-upgrade stuff ?
[11:09] <zequence-s> A dist-upgrade will update what you already have. I'm talking about if we are lacking some great application in our default install?
[11:09] <zequence-s> app, or tool. plugin, or whatever
[11:09] <zequence-s> We've added a few things fro 13.04
[11:09] <zequence-s> Like Krita, and kdenlive
[11:10] <martl> I don't Oh..I dont know...I'm just new at this distro...so I am far from knowing the difference
[11:11] <zequence-s> martl, We have metas, each named ubuntustudio-*
[11:11] <martl> yes...I  know...
[11:11] <zequence-s> To see them all, in a terminal, do: apt-cache search ubuntustudio-
[11:11] <zequence-s> They all have dependencies
[11:11] <martl> oh..ok...
[11:11] <martl> and.....
[11:11] <zequence-s> So, a meta does not actually include anything. It just depends on a lot of packages
[11:12] <martl> its like a container then ?
[11:12] <zequence-s> So, ubuntustudio-audio, for instance, is our entire collection of audio applications that we ship by default
[11:12] <martl> ok
[11:13] <zequence-s> A meta doesn't include anything really. Just a description of what it depends on
[11:13] <zequence-s> We're merging -recording and -generation into -audio for 13.04
[11:14] <zequence-s> Anyway, if you think of any application that we should be shipping, just let us know
[11:14] <martl> guitarlnix
[11:14] <zequence-s> It's included for 13.04, so that one is taken care of :)
[11:15] <martl> nice...
[11:15] <martl> I heard an interview with the developer
[11:16] <martl> right now, spewaking of which I am adding kxstudio to lubuntu 12.04
[11:16] <martl> cuz ubuntustudio wont boot on this laptop
[11:17] <zequence-s> I think I read about that on kxstudio channel
[11:17] <zequence-s> You weren't able to boot anything almost
[11:17] <martl> no studio distros except avlinux
[11:18] <martl> avlinux has no irc presence,
[11:20] <martl> yah I was talking with falktx at kxstudio  and am taking his advice on the kx install
[11:21] <martl> When is 13.04 coming to life ?
[11:21] <zequence-s> We dont' know yet, but if it is to be released, it'll be release april 2013
[11:22] <zequence-s> hence the name 13.04 :)
[11:22] <martl> if ?
[11:22] <zequence-s> There's talk about moving to rolling release
[11:22] <zequence-s> Nothing's been settled yet
[11:22] <zequence-s> This was a good one http://thisiswhyicode.blogspot.se/2013/02/a-geologist-and-engineer-on-flight-from.html
[11:22] <martl> are you a ubuntu worker ?
[11:23] <zequence-s> I'm a developer for Ubuntu Studio. We're all volunteers
[11:25] <martl> do they feed you ?
[11:25] <martl> You dont actually go there
[11:25] <martl> You can work at home.....duh
[11:26] <zequence-s> Ubuntu is developed by the company Canonical. Most of them work from home, and get aid
[11:26] <zequence-s> paid*
[11:26] <zequence-s> All the other flavors, Ubuntu Studio, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Mythbuntu are community projects
[11:26] <martl> that was a good one....the geologist and the engineer.... will you get paid ever ?
[11:26] <zequence-s> I'm not in it for the money, so that's not an issue for me
[11:27] <zequence-s> I've got an income
[11:27] <zequence-s> Not working on this fulltime
[11:27] <martl> ok...
[11:28] <zequence-s> martl, Do you know about Debian?
[11:28] <martl> So I added the ausio meta  with kxstudio ontopof lubuntu. I dont want to bother with bthe video meta...is that ok ya think?
[11:29] <martl> yes I have bith running now wheezy and squeeze
[11:29] <zequence-s> kxstudio has nothing to do with Ubuntu Studio
[11:29] <zequence-s> So, either use one or the other
[11:29] <martl> I have ubuntustudio on my desktop
[11:29] <martl> with debian wheezy lxde and mint mate
[11:30] <zequence-s> Debian is completely a volunteer project. And Ubuntu is based on it. Most of the applications in Ubuntu are directly imported from Debian
[11:30] <martl> and win7 and 8
[11:30] <martl> yes...I do know that ....and sometimes mint uses deb....lmde
[11:32] <martl> I am getting comfy with ubuntustudio on the desktop, just vas a regular distro..
[11:32] <zequence-s> I'm a gnome person myself, but that doesn't mean I don't think XFCE is a good choice for Ubuntu Studio
[11:33] <martl> I have lubuntu ...know kxstudio lubuntu on an old hptc1100 tablet
[11:33] <martl> now*
[11:34] <martl> I have wheezy lxde on a 6gb hdd that I play with now and then
[11:34] <martl>  as well as squeeze with gnome2
[11:34] <martl> I dont really like the new gnome environment
[11:35] <martl> But like you say, with Xfce Lxde, razor qt...etc...there is room
[11:36] <martl> Xfce with nautilus is interesting
[11:36] <zequence-s> nautilus is being dropped for 13.04
[11:36] <martl> AVlinux has lxde de with nautilus
[11:37] <zequence-s> In fact, we're going full way with aligning with Xubuntu now
[11:37] <martl> thunar then
[11:37] <martl> and...ugh gigolo ?
[11:37] <zequence-s> nautilus has changed so much that it doesn't make much sense to use it
[11:38] <martl> Gotta write a scripot for opoen as admin...and for accessing local windows share home network access
[11:38] <zequence-s> also, we try not to work on the desktop more than we need to
[11:38] <martl> leave the XFCE alone then ?
[11:38] <zequence-s> Xubuntu, more than XFCE
[11:39] <zequence-s> In fact, you could call Ubuntu Studio Xubuntu Studio
[11:39] <zequence-s> Well, almost
[11:39] <martl> ok..OIts based on Xfce de
[11:40] <martl> or it has the Xfce DE
[11:41] <martl> Be cool if you added an "open as admin" script to the right click context box in thunar
[11:42] <martl> But likje you say, you arent working specifically on the DE or the FM
[11:46] <zequence-s> I'll look into that. Feature freeze is tomorrow, so it's not likely we are able to get that in this time
[11:47] <martl> Love the progression you guys are making,..
[11:48] <martl> in 5 years, It's great...thats how long I have been toying with the linux,,er the gnu'linux....
[11:48] <martl> Ubuntu really sets the pace, one way er the other....
[11:52] <martl> gotta go bah bah...catch you later zequence-s
[11:52] <zequence-s> martl, later
[13:59] <ivotkl> Hello everyone. I've installed audio part of ubuntustudio on an ubuntu distro. I am having echo issues when recording on audacity. Any clues?
[14:00] <zequence-s> ivotkl, echo, as in the audio that goes in comes out a bit later?
[14:01] <zequence-s> ivotkl, That's usually the effect of having high latency when recording
[14:01] <cfhowlett> ivotkl, actual echo or lag during monitoring??
[14:01] <zequence-s> ..and monitoring through the computer, as cfhowlett pointed out
[14:01] <ivotkl> I think its echo. Not sure.
[14:01] <ivotkl> I think it' s echo. Not sure.
[14:02] <cfhowlett> ivotkl, do you have an echo on playback of the recording???
[14:02] <ivotkl> I mean, I hear a pitch when recording as if mic was too high.
[14:02] <ivotkl> Bear in mind that I'm using integrated mic, so that might be the reason. But I've never recorded anything, so...
[14:03] <cfhowlett> ivotkl, integrated mic not so good.  I've had better results using an El Cheapo skype headset rather than the integrated ...
[14:03] <cfhowlett> ivotkl, plus integrated will pick up system sounds, fans, etc ...
[14:05] <ivotkl> Oh, ok...
[14:06] <cfhowlett> ivotkl, for recording music, podcasts, you really should consider a decent introductory mic and interface.  I used the presonus one box to great effect
[14:07] <cfhowlett> see amazon for that ... $150 for interface and mic
[14:07] <cfhowlett> ivotkl, or, if you've an ipad/phone/pod, there are a number of nice mics ...
[14:12] <ivotkl> I have an iPad2 actually.
[14:12] <ivotkl> How can I use it with Audacity?
[14:13] <zequence-s> ivotkl, What are you recording, btw?
[14:13] <ivotkl> Just my voice hahaha. =$
[14:14] <ivotkl> I have a MIDI to USB interface for the piano, but I do not remember which program I used for that one...
[14:22] <zequence-s> ivotkl, I guess in your situation, Audacity seems like a logical choice
[14:26] <ivotkl> Okay. Then I'll hydrogen a drum. And finally the piano.
[14:26] <ivotkl> Which was the MIDI thingie?
[14:27] <zequence-s> If your thinking of sequencing, don't use Audacity
[14:28] <zequence-s> Use qtractor, or ardour
[14:28] <ivotkl> Nope, just recording Gethsemane by Nightwish. But I'm not singing that one. =P
[14:28] <zequence-s> qtractor has midi support, so that may be the easiest
[14:28] <zequence-s> You can sync qtractor with hydrogen
[14:28] <ivotkl> I'm planning to make the drums with hydrogen and then recording the piano + strings via MIDI -> USB interface.
[14:28] <zequence-s> So, you can make beats with hydrogen, and record it to qtractor when you're done
[14:29] <zequence-s> You'll need to use jack
[14:29] <zequence-s> !proaudio
[14:29] <zequence-s> Read that to get an idea
[14:30] <ivotkl> zequence-s: Great. Thank you.
[15:13] <senator_> Hey
[15:14] <senator_> Libre office is crashed but wont stop running in background yet no documents canbe ciewed
[15:28] <senator_> Libre office is crashed but wont stop running in background yet no documents can be ciewed
[16:01] <ivotkl> senator_: have you tried using killall command on terminal?
[16:01] <ivotkl> Gotta rush guys. See you later. It's been a lpeasure as always. =)
[16:01] <ivotkl> Gotta rush guys. See you later. It's been a pleasure as always. =)
[16:01] <senator_> i really dont understand that comman
[16:01] <senator_> can you explain pls
[19:54] <SunStar> launcher menu -> system -> system monitor -> process tab -> right click on what you want gone -> kill
[20:10] <senator_> Ok solution found.... what I did was to go into system monitor and kill process for soffice bin
[22:21] <hectorlopez> hi there, i want to know im using ubuntustudio 12.04 i know if necessary update to the last release or not? update to 12.10
[22:24] <zequence> hectorlopez: No need to really
[22:24] <zequence> 12.04 is LTS (Long Term Release)
[22:24] <zequence> The difference between 12.04 and 12.10 is only that you get more updated software
[22:25] <zequence> If you aren't missing anything, you don't need to upgrade
[22:26] <UnWorldly> what are the most significantly updated things out of curiosity
[22:26] <SunStar> once 13.04 comes out you might want to consider updateing to 13.04 for improved jack function
[22:27] <SunStar> 13.04 comes out in april
[22:27] <zequence> Yes, both jack and PA are buggy in 12.04 and 12.10
[22:27] <zequence> There is a fix on its way for jack for 12.04 and 12.10, but I have no idea about ETA
[22:28] <zequence> There may never be a 13.04. Still under discussion
[22:28] <zequence> That my become a rolling release
[22:28] <zequence> http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/rolling-release-mir/
[22:29] <zequence> UnWorldly: Whatever is most significant to you. Ubuntu Studio itself has had some updating in the menu department
[22:30] <zequence> But, otherwise, it depends on what applications you use, and whether there were any new features/big fixes
[22:30] <UnWorldly> I guess im all up on ppa's for the things that are super important to have new versions for anyway
[22:30] <zequence> A possible rolling release would to some degree replace that
[22:31] <zequence> I mean, it would be as up to date as a "stable" release could be
[22:31] <zequence> All though, there are special builds in some PPAs
[22:31] <SunStar> im not understanding how a rolling release would actually be implemented.
[22:32] <zequence> It means there's no specific release. You get a daily, or monthly ISO, or whatever. Install it, and then it just keeps updating
[22:32] <zequence> There's no *next* release
[22:32] <zequence> The LTS will stay though
[22:32] <zequence> no matter waht
[22:32] <SunStar> got it
[22:33] <zequence> Nothing's for sure yet. Ubuntu is trying to evolve with their phone plans, and free up some workload of having to support a bunch of releases
[22:34] <zequence> Canonical, I mean (who maintains and develops Ubuntu)
[22:34] <SunStar> yeah
[22:35] <SunStar> well i support the rolling release strategy
[22:35] <zequence> Many people agree on that the development release of 13.04, between October and now has been quite stable. So, with that in mind, people are saying we can just keep going, and not do anymore 6 month releases. That said, they do need to make the rolling release more secure
[22:36] <zequence> It's a little too much wild west otherwise
[22:49] <hectorlopez> ok thx


[11:18] <Joit> hi where can i make a suggestion about the install from the live cd / blackscreen
[11:18] <cjwatson> stop asking where, and just spit it out :-)
[11:19] <Joit>  :p
[11:19] <Joit> i add at the recover mode at the linux line nomodeset, and it fixed it, to go through all screens
[11:20] <Joit> just, as is pick from the menu dpkg it removed the line again, and i had to put it new in, but then i came to kde, and i could install nvidia driver from the net
[11:20] <Joit> and beside, it fixed some broken pckage, what seems are at the cd
[11:20] <cjwatson> um, is this a maverick daily build?
[11:20] <cjwatson> released images shouldn't have any broken packages
[11:21] <Joit> no, ubuntu 10.4
[11:21] <cjwatson> then there is some deeper problem, and you should just file a bug with full logs and explain exactly what you were doing
[11:21] <Joit> well i did dload it couple times, but few files still had allways an error
[11:21] <cjwatson> did you check the image checksums, and have you cleaned your CD drive?
[11:21] <Joit> at last it worked, to install it over the live cd
[11:22] <Joit> well i burned it with 3 different burners, but its allwas the sae file
[11:22] <cjwatson> did you check the image checksums?
[11:22] <Joit> and did dload the iso few times also
[11:22] <cjwatson> we don't release images with broken files, ever
[11:22] <Joit> i did not check them really, no
[11:22] <cjwatson> what exactly is the error message?
[11:22] <cjwatson> the one that leads you to believe that there are broken packages on the CD
[11:23] <Joit> when i check the cd for errors it says can not be readed
[11:23] <cjwatson> what exactly is the error message?
[11:23] <cjwatson> please don't paraphrase it :)
[11:23] <Joit> well, what you expect from my grey cells :p
[11:24] <Joit> i will check it, and put the cd in on the other pc
[11:25] <cjwatson> if I see the exact error message, copied exactly, then I can probably say whether it's a physical hardware problem or a software problem
[11:25] <Joit> mm wait, that was after install
[11:25] <Joit> i did install it with the live cd
[11:26] <Joit> after it was installed, i figured it out, how to boot with nomodeset, and get he screen with this optinos for continue normal boot dpkg check and few others
[11:26] <Joit> i did run dpkg and it gaves me this message, looking for broken pakages
[11:27] <Joit> and it did start dloading 170 mb
[11:27] <cjwatson> EXACT
[11:27] <Joit> but i have no log for that
[11:27] <cjwatson> sorry to shout but you keep paraphrasing things
[11:27] <Joit> lol
[11:27] <cjwatson> I just want a copy of the error message you're seeing
[11:27] <cjwatson> seriously, it's so much quicker
[11:28] <cjwatson> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[11:28] <cjwatson> if you have to go through recovery mode after installation, then something has gone wrong during installation and it would be easier to just fix that
[11:28] <cjwatson> so, I need the full installation log to find out what
[11:28] <cjwatson> you should find it in /var/log/installer/syslog
[11:29] <Joit> i think more, that it did not have the right driver for the nvidia, its from 6xx serie
[11:30] <Joit> but my point is actually not the broken packages, but for the recover mode the parameter nomodeset would be better
[11:34] <cjwatson> I don't think that's true across the board, sadly
[11:35] <cjwatson> it will make some hardware work better and other hardware work much worse
[11:35] <cjwatson> it's not something we can apply everywhere - if it were then it could just be the default
[11:35] <cjwatson> it's awkward
[11:35] <Joit> but for the first install it is soemthing neutral isnt it
[11:35] <cjwatson> I would not say so
[11:36] <cjwatson> we're getting to the point where modesetting is in general much better tested and much more reliable, with a few exceptions such as the one you appear to be running into
[11:36] <Joit> but anyhow it bothers me, that actually most cards has a vesa mode, what is there since begiinning, and the most should work with it
[11:37] <cjwatson> and I think the tradeoff now is that people with your kinds of problems should be reporting bugs to get modesetting fixed, rather than campaigning to have modesetting switched off in some situations
[11:37] <cjwatson> nomodeset is there as an emergency escape hatch for people with problems, but it isn't a permanent situations
[11:37] <cjwatson> situation
[11:37] <cjwatson> err.  I mean "solution"
[11:38] <Joit> well grub gives a hard time also to keep it in, i tried to add the line, but it seems he did ignore it
[11:38] <Joit> just worked with a wooden mallet
[11:39] <Joit> ok finnished now, i did pick the option check cd for errors, it ended and only pop up errors found in 13 files
[11:39] <Joit> this was the live kbuntu cd
[11:39] <Joit> 10.4
[11:40] <Joit> press any key to reboot...
[11:40] <cjwatson> what errors?
[11:40] <Joit> it did not say more then this line
[11:40] <cjwatson> can I have the installation log, please?
[11:41] <Joit> that is what i got when i boot from the live cd, and choose check cd/dvd
[11:41] <Joit> does it save it that way?
[11:42] <cjwatson> ah, no
[11:42] <cjwatson> so if that shows errors, it's really not worth attempting an installation
[11:42] <cjwatson> we'd force everyone through that check by default except that it's sloww
[11:43] <cjwatson> you need to figure out why the check fails - the one thing I can say is that it's certainly not a problem with the master ISO image; even if it had got through QA like that, we'd have heard more about it by more
[11:43] <cjwatson> by now
[11:44] <cjwatson> so either you have a network problem that means that the download persistently gets corrupted for you, or you have a bad burner, or the reader in the computer you're trying to use is bad, or the actual disk is broken somehow, or (rarely) there's a bug in the kernel that means it fails to read from your CD controller
[11:44] <Joit> i dont know, really, i did dload the iso's few times from different mirrors, did burn them with different burner, but allwas get a error at some certain files.
[11:45] <cjwatson> I understand, but that is where the problem lies
[11:45] <Joit> when this would happen at normal copying files at my pc, i would say, the source is bad
[11:45] <Joit> btw, i checked the syslog, it is emtpy
[11:46] <Joit> at last kubuntu runs now by me, after i did get the right drivers from the net and it fixed the files over dpkg
[11:46] <Joit> and back to grub, seems vers2 is not really better at adding lines during the boot
[11:47] <Joit> anyhow, it seems it cant keep it right now
[11:47] <cjwatson> just add them to the right lines in /etc/default/grub and run update-grub
[11:47] <cjwatson> there's a big comment at the top of /boot/grub/grub.cfg telling you what to do
[11:48] <Joit> well, when i have the problem with the blackscreen , i cant add anything, becuase i dont have access to this files
[11:48] <ogra> on a sidenote there are MD5SUM files on the download server, did you check your iso against them ?
[11:49] <Joit> no i did not, md5sum is a terminal prog, and i tried first to dload the files freh, or burn them
[11:51] <ogra> well, that should be the first checkpoint if the selftest fails
[11:51] <ogra> checking the iso is ok
[11:52] <ogra> if that is the case, its likely that your media is broken or you burned to fast, burning at slower speed might help
[11:52] <Joit> well, when i dload a iso, i think, they should been checked from the one, wo upload them
[11:52] <ogra> they are
[11:53] <Joit> i did burn them also slowly, 8x, and with infrarecorder, thats a program, what they suggest at the ubuntu page
[11:53] <ogra> which is why the md5sum files are provided, but that doesnt help if your iso gets corrupted on download
[11:53] <cjwatson> adding kernel arguments during boot should be straightforward - they go on the end of the 'linux' line
[11:53] <cjwatson> you can 'cat /proc/cmdline' after boot to check that they took
[11:54] <Joit> well i use a free download manager, and i never get a corrpted file with it
[11:54] <Joit> so it guess it must be the source
[11:54] <cjwatson> the source is correct
[11:54] <cjwatson> honestly, I understand why you're saying this, but we would know :-)
[11:55] <Joit> and few different sources, burned with different burners, allways the same file what is corrumpted, what would be there logical?
[11:55] <Joit> i will see, what i can do with md5sum
[11:55] <ogra> right, start with that
[11:56] <Joit> well, actually nm, i have it installed, and now knopw, how i can do it again, if, and therefor i dont bother much more with it
[11:57] <cjwatson> by way of showing good faith, I'm re-checking the Kubuntu 10.04 desktop image now
[11:57] <Joit> and this blackscreen issue is often at this Version, its not only me
[11:57] <Joit> ty i appreceatie it :P then i dont feel alone
[11:57] <cjwatson> it checks out with zero errors here
[11:57] <cjwatson> (under emulation, which is why it was quick)
[11:57] <cjwatson> so the ISO image on releases.ubuntu.com is definitely fine
[12:01] <ogra> cjwatson, btw, looking at the ton of bugs we get from mis-edited /etc/default/grub files i was wondering if grub shouldnt ship something like visudo at some point :)
[12:01] <ogra> "vigrub" :)
[12:03] <Joit> ok the checksum for ubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso do match
[12:03] <ogra> probably a worthy spec for M+1
[12:03] <Joit> the file is right on my pc
[12:03] <Joit> and it seems more like, there are bad files on the cd, and the checksum is made with them
[12:04] <Joit> i doubt, that my burner produce the error
[12:04] <ogra> well, its either your media or the burning that breaks them
[12:04] <Joit> or, my 3 burner
[12:04] <Joit> well 3 different burner, allways the same file ? that is ridicoulus, sorry
[12:05] <ogra> well, cjwatson just checked the iso again above ... the content of the iso is ok, your md5sum matches the one on the server so the only way it can break is while transferring it to or from the media
[12:06] <Joit> cjwatson where did you get yours from
[12:06] <Joit> and well, another idea, that we have differnt hardware, and the errors are at the files for my exotic
[12:07] <ogra> unlikely that will affect an md5sum check on the disk
[12:07] <ogra> unless your CD reader is bad or something
[12:07] <Joit> even when it is not really exotic, its a hp t3000 with an asus a8zmn-la board with nvidia on board
[12:08] <cjwatson> Joit: http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/10.04/kubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso
[12:09] <cjwatson> that is the canonical, official copy
[12:10] <cjwatson> its md5sum is 0ef722fd6b348e9dcf03812d071d68ba, matching the one on the central build machine (which I have access to, since I co-administer it)
[12:10] <Joit> at last, i could try to burn the iso as iso on a cd, and do there the md5check again
[12:10] <Joit> hm mine is different
[12:11] <cjwatson> wait, you said Ubuntu 10.04?  is it Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[12:11] <cjwatson> sorry then, you confused me by mentioning KDE above
[12:11] <Joit> its the one from from ubuntu
[12:12] <ogra> you said kubuntu initially
[12:12] <Joit> d044a2a0c8103fc3e5b7e18b0f7de1c8
[12:12] <Joit>  ubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso
 this was the live kbuntu cd
 10.4
[12:12] <Joit> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes
[12:12] <cjwatson> d044a2a0c8103fc3e5b7e18b0f7de1c8 is correct
[12:12] <ogra> hmm, no you said kbuntu :)
[12:12] <Joit> yes, and that is what i got
[12:12] <cjwatson> therefore, it is not a download problem
[12:13] <Joit> yes, that is, what i did install
[12:13] <Joit> but i did now the check with the ubuntu cd
[12:13] <cjwatson> all files on that image check out correctly here
[12:13] <cjwatson> it is not a problem with the source image
[12:13] <Joit> i think not the image is the problem, but the config files there
[12:13] <cjwatson> you are wrong
[12:13] <cjwatson> I'm sorry but it is as simple as that
[12:14] <cjwatson> we've spent lots of time going over this and ruling that out
[12:14] <cjwatson> so please let's not waste any more time on that
[12:14] <cjwatson> the problem is either (a) burner (though you seem to have mostly ruled that out) (b) reader (c) kernel
[12:14] <Joit> well, as i said, my point was about the blackscreens, this broken files was at last more an sie effect
[12:14] <cjwatson> oh or (d) media
[12:15]  * ogra votes for d
[12:15] <cjwatson> it's not worth investigating problems with a broken installation CD
[12:15] <Joit> cjwatson well you did not proof me, that my burner mess it up
[12:15] <ogra> he did
[12:15] <cjwatson> Joit: no, and I didn't intend to - there are still multiple possibilities
[12:15] <cjwatson> ogra: please don't put words into my mouth
[12:15] <ogra> well, you did proof its neither the download nor the iso that breaks it
[12:16] <cjwatson> that does not prove that it is the burner's fault
[12:16] <ogra> right, sorry
[12:16] <Joit> what is so hard to get there, i put the cd in, it shows the install menu, and after enter, to install, the screen goes out of range
[12:16] <cjwatson> I was quite clear about that just above
[12:16] <Joit> and when i put the param nomodeset in, it works
[12:16] <cjwatson> Joit: the first step should be to make sure that the CD is being read correctly; practically any imaginable problem could result from failures there
[12:16] <Joit> ogra i did do nothing, its how you will understand it, thats the point
[12:17] <cjwatson> Joit: but, once that is fixed, the problem is not one of configuration, but the fact that the kernel does not work out of the box
[12:17] <cjwatson> the Ubuntu kernel should not *require* special configuration options to work out of the box
[12:17] <cjwatson> it is unambiguously a kernel bug if it does
[12:17] <Joit> well anyhow is something messed there, and its not my burner or my cd
[12:18] <cjwatson> so we won't add nomodeset to recovery mode by default, but I encourage you to file a kernel bug about the fact that it doesn't work out of the box
[12:18] <cjwatson> once you've sorted out the CD problems, anyway
[12:18] <Joit> and i am pretty sure about that, i did play now 2 days with that around, and dont see a other solution
[12:18] <Joit> no, i am certain, that i burned min 2 correct.
[12:19] <Joit> but i still get errors in the files
[12:19] <cjwatson> the one thing I have proven is that there is no such checksums error in the ISO image
[12:19] <Joit> the checksums are made, after the files been added
[12:20] <Joit> it is no guarantie, that there are not bad files into the pakcage
[12:20] <cjwatson> the check that you performed checks the checksums
[12:20] <cjwatson> so that's not relevant
[12:21] <Joit> well anyway, its maybe right, that the param not will work at all boards, but i could not add it at grub after installtion
[12:21] <cjwatson> where did you try to add it?
[12:22] <Joit> when i add it with the live cd, it works, but not with grub, After the load screen 'e' and then to the line where it loads the kernel
[12:22] <Joit> after quiet splash
[12:22] <cjwatson> and what did you press after that?
[12:22] <Joit> esc
[12:22] <cjwatson> that cancels your modifications
[12:23] <Joit> ok, then thenormal way would be ctrl+c after taht to get a prompt and type boot?
[12:23] <cjwatson> here's the message it shows below the menu
[12:23] <cjwatson> "Minimum Emacs-like screen editing is supported. TAB lists completions. Press Ctrl-x to boot, Ctrl-c for a command-line or ESC to discard edits and return to the GRUB menu."
[12:23] <cjwatson> so make your modifications, and then press ctrl-x
[12:23] <cjwatson> you don't need to use the command-line via ctrl-c
[12:24] <Joit> a little secrect more, what they hiding, it is not described at the grub page
[12:24] <cjwatson> it's displayed right there on the screen you got with 'e'
[12:25] <Joit> at this screen after e are only the command lines in a box
[12:25] <cjwatson> take a photograph and show me?
[12:25] <Joit> lo
[12:25] <Joit> l
[12:25] <Joit> and send you a postcard also ? even when i would
[12:26] <Joit> ok it says... in german
[12:27] <cjwatson> oh, damnit, I bet this is bug 580178
[12:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 580178 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "German translation of editing screen legend considered harmful! (affects: 2) (heat: 93)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580178
[12:27] <cjwatson> damn fool translators
[12:27] <Joit> minimal emacs similar screen processing is supported.  tab for aautocomplete press STRG-c for prompt or esc for back to the menu
[12:27] <Joit> no ctrl x
[12:27] <cjwatson> right, the German translation is broken
[12:27] <Joit> strg=ctrl
[12:27] <cjwatson> it's ok, I understand German
[12:27] <cjwatson> well enough for that anyway
[12:28] <Joit> darn, why allways that
[12:28] <cjwatson> in that case I apologise, it wasn't your fault but your countrymen's ;-)
[12:28] <cjwatson> but it is specific to German, it's displayed in other languages
[12:28] <cjwatson> I'll see if I can at least get that bogus translation disabled
[12:29] <Joit> ,, i suppose the bug is in progress to get fixed
[12:29] <cjwatson> it wasn't, but it can be, at least disabling it and showing the English text instead
[12:29] <cjwatson> better correct English than wrong German
[12:29] <cjwatson> anyway, press Ctrl-x after making your changes
[12:30] <Joit> well, mainly i still think more at this blackscreen issue.. but since it seems is not a solution, or can mess at some boards up..
[12:30] <Joit> even when i thought, it can be at recover mode, because there should be save settings
[12:31] <Joit> or something, where you set a vga modus
[12:31] <Joit> save* vga modus
[12:33] <dpm> Joit, I caught the conversation and I saw the bug. What does the message exactly says in German? I do see Strg+X mentioned in the translated message at https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/grub2/+pots/grub/de/205/+translate so there might be something else going on
[12:33] <cjwatson> dpm: it looks like it was fixed after the lucid release
[12:34] <cjwatson> or after the last language pack pull, anyway
[12:34] <cjwatson> although the packaged translation in lucid is wrong; it's fixed in maverick
[12:34] <cjwatson> the msgstr in language-pack-de-base/lucid-updates is:
[12:34] <cjwatson> "Minimale Emacs-ähnliche Bildschirmbearbeitung wird unterstützt. TAB listet "
[12:34] <cjwatson> "Vervollständigungen auf. Drücken Sie Strg-C für eine Befehlszeile oder ESC, "
[12:34] <cjwatson> "um zum Menü zurückzukehren."
[12:35] <Joit> Packaged:
[12:35] <Joit> M
[12:35] <Joit> it is that mesasgw, what is under packages
[12:35] <ogra> "TAB listet Vervollständigungen auf" thats a weird description of what it does
[12:35] <Joit> and the same, what cjwatson pasted, just dont have all letters there :p
[12:36] <cjwatson> I should be able to get a fix for that string into 10.04.1
[12:36] <Joit> yes tab did not work actually, it only switched to the / and showed the dir s there
[12:38] <Joit> md5sum
[12:38] <ogra> "TAB vervollständigt Eingaben" would be the proper description
[12:38] <Joit> sry wrong window
[12:40] <dpm> cjwatson, I see, the Packaged translation in LP mentioning Strg+X confused me as well. So there must been a post-release update to grub which imported new packaged translations, and possibly a fix to the Ubuntu translations post-release which did not make it to the latest language packs. In any case, rather than showing the English string for the fix, we could update the language packs or pull that translation
[12:40] <cjwatson> there was a post-release update to grub, but it did not change translations
[12:41] <cjwatson> however that doesn't rule out LP having done something strange to it
[12:41] <cjwatson> we can update the language packs for .1 (we should anyway) and update the incorrect packaged translations
[12:41] <cjwatson> *translation
[12:41] <cjwatson> that will cover all the bases
[12:41] <dpm> yep, that sounds like a good plan
[12:42] <dpm> I'm still confused to what happened here, though, I'll see if the LP devs can cast some light on this later on
[12:47] <Joit> well i checked now kubuntu desktop iso, and it is right at my pc too
[12:47] <Joit> the checksum is
[12:48] <Joit> also someone else at #ubuntu said, he could install it normally
[12:49] <Joit> so either it is my hardware, what is not supported or the specific driver for this kind is broken
[12:49] <Joit> and sorry, i still doubt, that my burner did mess it :p
[12:50] <cjwatson> I didn't say that your burner messed it up.  I raised that as one of several remaining possibilities.
[12:50] <cjwatson> but I'm getting a bit tired of re-explaining myself, I'm afraid
[12:50] <Joit> yes, and i know, that it is a very close possibility
[12:51] <Joit> well, i understand at the other side too, each supermarket drops each months a new pc out, where they trow all the chip hardware in, and not sure, how they can mix it all together allways
[12:51] <Joit> to find a solution for all of them is maybe a bit hard
[12:52] <Joit> cheap hardware, i meant
[12:53] <Joit> and i remeber other pc's where it did look like, they had a lock in it, that you only can install her Cds and OS on it
[12:59] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Is there any documentation for ubiquity's plugin API anywhere? I haven't really looked yet, but couldn't find anything obvious in the ubiquity source.
[13:02] <Joit> darn now i see, i did dload the wrong edition, this one maybe would be better http://ubuntusatanic.org/screenshots.php
[13:02] <cjwatson> TheMuso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/Plugins
[13:03] <TheMuso> cjwatson: thanks muchly.
[13:04] <Joit> ok, i need to go, gday and have fun, and thanks for listen