[10:05] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[10:16] <JonathanD> Morning!
[20:41] <MutantTurkey> hey guys my work is hiring a junior PHP developer to help with ecommerce... msg me for deets its a full time job in philadelphia
[21:14] <waltman> must like cigars?
[21:18] <ChinnoDog> MutantTurkey: Does your work have a cigar lounge?
[21:19] <waltman> I got the impression his work *was* a cigar lounge :)
[21:20] <ChinnoDog> It should be. If you sell cigars you can probably assume there won't be anyone there that is against it, right?
[21:23] <jthan> It's a cigar lounge/bar
[21:23] <jthan> was there a time or three
[21:25] <ChinnoDog> I had assumed it was sales because there were no flashy location pictures on the web site.
[21:26] <jthan> and I believe now Holt's bought/owns ashton, yeah MutantTurkey?


[12:54] <gnomefreak> damn kdelibs5 is huge
[01:25] <gnomefreak> ok when putting hte export lines at top of the /usr/lib/kde4/bin that is after the comments above the trap line?
[01:30] <stdin> gnomefreak: shouldn't matter too much, I tend to put it right after "#!/bin/sh" tho
[01:31] <gnomefreak> stdin: yeah i added them as first uncommented line
[01:31] <gnomefreak> above trap line
[01:32] <stdin> just remember there'll be no kicker in the full session
[01:32] <stdin> ooh, too late :p
[01:43] <gnomefreak> lol there is nothing here including menu
[01:43] <stdin> I was just going to say then when you left :p
[01:43] <stdin> you can start apps from krunner, but that's about it
[01:44] <gnomefreak> thats what im doing atm
[01:45] <gnomefreak> its nice though
[05:30] <daSkreech> Funny I just thought of Waves (having come from the seashore where the hurricane has torn up a road an a half of houses) and thought .o0(I wonder if Hobbsee is on) and lo! you were
[05:31] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:31] <Hobbsee> it's my timezone.  ish.
[05:32] <daSkreech> Yah I know
[05:32] <daSkreech>  Jucato (as I found out today) signs in before breakfast :)
[05:32] <daSkreech> not as bad as my friend who signs in before getting out of bed
[05:33] <Jucato> my bed is directly in front my computer. so when I stand up, the first thing I reach for is the on switch :)
[05:34] <Jucato> er.. by now you haven't had lunch yet either :)
[05:34] <Hobbsee> true
[05:42] <Jucato> How do our changes/patches get to upstream btw?
[05:42] <daSkreech> By USPO
[05:42] <Jucato> USPO?
[05:42] <Jucato> !uspo
[05:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uspo - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[05:42] <Jucato> hehe
[05:43] <daSkreech> United states Post Office
[05:43] <daSkreech> Wether rain or shine sleet or snow, It must get through!
[05:43] <Jucato> ...
[05:43] <Jucato> oookaaaay....
[05:43] <daSkreech> Jucato: that's the motto of the US post office
[05:44] <daSkreech> from back in the days when it was started in the wild west and postmen used to get shot if they didn't freeze to death
[05:45] <Hobbsee> Jucato: someone commits them to kdesvn, usually
[05:46] <Jucato> um... oh... ok :)
[05:46] <Jucato> thanks
[05:50] <Hobbsee> i dont know, i usually pull patches from upstream
[05:51] <Jucato> but for now... lunch!! :)
[05:52] <Hobbsee> lol
[05:52] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:56] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: you had questions you wanted to ask me?
[05:59] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: hello?
[05:59] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: i have to go to sleep soon, so please hurry up and answer
[05:59] <daSkreech> She's at lunch I think
[06:01] <coreymon77> daSkreech: oh
[06:01] <coreymon77> daSkreech: how long do you think
[06:02] <daSkreech> I don't know I've never seen her eat
[06:02] <daSkreech> coreymon77: is it a discussion?
[06:02] <coreymon77> because its 12:00 midnight where i am, i got up at 7:10 in the morning after staying up till 2:30 and i have to get up at 9:00 tomorrow
[06:02] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: oh
[06:02] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: just about #kubuntu support, how to make it better, etc.
[06:02] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: youre there
[06:02] <Hobbsee> i'll email them
[06:03] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: just ask me
[06:03] <Hobbsee> fsvo there, yes.  i'm on hold at the moment
[06:03] <daSkreech> I was about to suggest that
[06:03] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: im here for the moment
[06:03] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: so might as well ask me in person
[06:03] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: what do you see as teh problems in getting support in #kubuntu, and how do you think they can be fixed?
[06:04] <Hobbsee> and why do you think it's quieter lately than usual?
[06:04] <coreymon77> that ones easy
[06:04] <coreymon77> school has just started for most people
[06:04] <coreymon77> so people are more busy now than they are normally
[06:05] <coreymon77> and as for problems getting support in the channel
[06:05] <coreymon77> i personally have not had any
[06:06] <coreymon77> the #kubuntu channel is actually the nicest, best support channel ive ever been to
[06:06] <coreymon77> the #ubuntu channel on the other hand
[06:06] <coreymon77> but thats not the question
[06:06] <Hobbsee> it seems that a lot of people dont get naswers
[06:06] <coreymon77> thats true
[06:07] <coreymon77> because only a few people are typically active at a time
[06:07] <daSkreech> true
[06:07] <coreymon77> and nobody knows everything
[06:07] <coreymon77> and if you are not on at the same time as the really experienced users
[06:07] <daSkreech> i spend up late answering things cause I'm the only "support" on hand
[06:07] <coreymon77> you may have a bit of trouble
[06:08] <Hobbsee> how do you think we should draw more experienced users to answer questions in #kubuntu?
[06:08] <n8k99> pay them!!!
[06:08] <coreymon77> what the channel needs is more people, spread out among more timezones that are actually experienced, so that no matter what time you are on, there are people who know what they are doing
[06:09] <daSkreech> true
[06:09] <Hobbsee> indeed, but how do we draw them?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> hmm.  i remember why i usually call these guys at night now.
[06:09] <daSkreech> coreymon77: does anyone monitor the other locales chan?
[06:09] <coreymon77> casue at the moment, if you are not on when either intellikey, dascreech, jucato or jhutchins are, you will have some trouble
[06:10] <coreymon77> daSkreech: i stick around in the canadian and the israeli ones
[06:10] <daSkreech> There are a few others
[06:10] <daSkreech> Blueskaj I've found to be very helpful
[06:10] <n8k99> and Jucato just came off a month long hiatus
[06:10] <coreymon77> daSkreech: they are the mains
[06:11] <daSkreech> I'll actually stop helping someone if BluesKaj starts talking to them
[06:11] <daSkreech> as in not even watch what he is saying to make sure it's right
[06:11] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: all we have is them, a couple others, my wireless knowledge and any other tidbits that people might know
[06:11] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: we need more experienced knowledgeable "support" people
[06:11] <Hobbsee> right
[06:11] <Hobbsee> how do we get them, though?
[06:12] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: and we need them spread out over more time zones
[06:12] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: that, i dont know
[06:12] <daSkreech> positive reinforcement
[06:12] <daSkreech> and encouragement of what little they know
[06:12] <daSkreech> many people know answers but just assume they might be wrong
[06:12] <coreymon77> everyone knows something
[06:13] <coreymon77> everyones good at their little area
[06:13] <daSkreech> I think that if we start encouraging people who say the right thing
[06:13] <daSkreech> by thanking them
[06:13] <coreymon77> minenhappens to be wireless
[06:13] <daSkreech> as a third party they will be more inclined to try
[06:13] <daSkreech> I know squat about wireless but I help anyway :)
[06:13] <n8k99> it helps if someone acknowledges the support you give
[06:14] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: daSkreech is entirely right, the problem is that people are afraid to give support because they are afraid they might be wrong and therefore be responsible for messing up someones system
[06:14] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: we need to encourage people to give any support they have
[06:14] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: if they are wrong, they will be corrected, no worries
[06:14] <daSkreech> coreymon77: when people have *just* worked out a solution for themselves like in the past few days and someone asks about it they jump to answer
[06:14] <Hobbsee> oh, there's a thought
[06:15] <daSkreech> They just never put that into a philosphy of answering if they even know a dim path
[06:15] <coreymon77> daSkreech: exactly
[06:15] <daSkreech> Maybe we should have a KoK :)
[06:15] <coreymon77> daSkreech: the reason im good at wireless problems is because i have had so many problems with it my self over my linux experience
[06:16] <coreymon77> daSkreech: a what?
[06:16] <daSkreech> Kode of konduct
[06:16] <coreymon77> lol
[06:16] <daSkreech> for the Kubuntu Khan :)
[06:16] <daSkreech> Oh that doesn't work at all!
[06:16] <coreymon77> dont we just use the CoC
[06:16] <daSkreech> !doesnt work | daSkreech
[06:16] <coreymon77> lol
[06:17] <daSkreech> Well this is to promote help in the channel so it's our Kode of praise and how to Korrect someone who is giving wrong info
[06:17] <coreymon77> okay
[06:17] <coreymon77> we get the point with the k's
[06:17] <coreymon77> you can stop now
[06:17] <daSkreech> so they won't shut up ever after but will have a clearer idea as to how to a) give answers and b) find solutions if they don't know the answer
[06:18] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: its the same psychology as to why many people dont raise their hands to answer questions at school
[06:18] <daSkreech> I think that from a selection od lurking regulars who know how to at least look for solutions we should get a crop of maybe 5 new super support
[06:19] <daSkreech> cause they were drinking before class?
[06:19] <daSkreech> >_>
[06:19] <daSkreech> <_<
[06:19] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: they are affraid that they will give a wrong answer and then get yelled and laughed at
[06:19] <daSkreech> Oh right of course :)
[06:19] <coreymon77> ...
[06:19] <coreymon77> daSkreech: exactly, i dont necessarily know the solutions to all questions and problems, but i know where to find many solutions
[06:20] <coreymon77> daSkreech: when i help someone with wireless
[06:20] <daSkreech> just need to pass that on to others
[06:20] <coreymon77> daSkreech: lots of my info is taken from the wiki
[06:20] <daSkreech> and forums as well
[06:20] <coreymon77> daSkreech: i dont know all of this stuff by heart
[06:20] <Hobbsee> tue
[06:20] <coreymon77> i just know where to find it
[06:20] <daSkreech> I recall one guy who was around for about three weeks that just was a monster at searching the forums and coming up with a close solution
[06:21] <coreymon77> exactly
[06:21] <Hobbsee> er, true
[06:21] <coreymon77> we should encourage people that it doesnt matter if they actually know te answer or not
[06:21] <coreymon77> its better to know where to find it
[06:22] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: but daSkreech is right, we all know people who lurk in the channel alot and are regulars
[06:23] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: we need to go and get a few more "super supports" that know where to find things so that no matter what time or timezone, someone is always there
[06:23] <Hobbsee> indeed.  i just wonder how.
[06:23] <coreymon77> what?
[06:23] <coreymon77> i could be one of them
[06:23] <coreymon77> but i cant always be on
[06:23] <coreymon77> because of school
[06:23] <coreymon77> id have to be part time
[06:24] <coreymon77> maybe we can ask BluesKaj to be one
[06:25] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: any more questions
[06:25] <coreymon77> ?
[06:25] <Hobbsee> what do you think should be done with #ubuntu ?
[06:25] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: meaning?
[06:25] <Hobbsee> to make it better for getting support
[06:26] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: people have to be nicer there
[06:26] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: i dont frequent that channel, as a matter of fact, im barely ever there
[06:26] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: but its not the same atmosphere
[06:26] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: its colder
[06:26] <emonkey> maybe it's possible to find goo supporters in native kubuntu language channels... in -de there are many people, but at the moment I don't know if there's one who could help
[06:27] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: it seems to have more of the "we WILL laugh at you if you say something wrong" type of atmosphere to it
[06:27] <Hobbsee> right
[06:27] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: that as to be changed
[06:28] <coreymon77> has*
[06:28] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: next?
[06:28] <daSkreech> coreymon77: and they have echoes
[06:29] <coreymon77> daSkreech: what?
[06:29] <Hobbsee> i think that was it, at the moment
[06:30] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: goodnight
[06:30] <Hobbsee> night!
[06:30] <coreymon77> daSkreech: what do you mean?
[06:31] <daSkreech> coreymon77: have you ever seen people asking for help in there
[06:31] <daSkreech> they just keep asking the same question over and over till they logout
[06:31] <daSkreech> at one point about 1/3 of the questions I was fielding in #kubuntu was for people in Ubuntu who got frustrated by the IRC chan
[06:31] <coreymon77> daSkreech: thats because nobody helps
[06:32] <daSkreech> I know
[06:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: feel like doing a doc upload for me?
[06:32] <daSkreech> I got some of them to install Kubuntu so it wasn't always a loss :)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> nope.  see teh part about breakfast
[06:32] <nixternal> grr
[06:32] <emonkey>
[06:32] <nixternal> need to hurry and get this in so the translations can begin
[06:34] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: oh ya, nixternal is one of the "super supports" too
[06:34] <nixternal> huh?
[06:34] <nixternal> Hobbsee: when you get a chance -> http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/docs/
[06:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: email me.  irc makes a bad todo list.
[06:35] <coreymon77> nixternal: we were talking about the kubuntu channel, and were listing off a bunch of people who we consider the "super supports"
[06:35] <nixternal> I don't help anyone
[06:35] <nixternal> I just k/b people
[06:35] <nixternal> roger that Hobbsee
[06:35] <coreymon77> nixternal: meaning experienced users who actually know what they are doing
[06:35] <nixternal> once again, that isn't me :)
[06:36] <coreymon77> ???
[06:36] <coreymon77> it isnt
[06:36] <coreymon77> i thought i see you around alot
[06:37] <coreymon77> anyways
[06:37] <nixternal> you have mail!
[06:37] <coreymon77> night everyone
[06:37] <Hobbsee> woo!  more mail!
[06:37] <coreymon77> its 12:40 in the morning here and i have to get up at 9
[06:37] <coreymon77> so its sleep time
[06:38] <coreymon77> gnight
[06:38] <nixternal> g'nite coreymon77
[06:38] <daSkreech> !nixternal
[06:38] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[06:38] <nixternal> yes!
[06:38] <nixternal> dude, Vista rocks..I don't know what people were talking about
[06:38] <nixternal> it is so secure
[06:38] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: can i have op for a sec?
[06:38] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: :P
[06:38] <nixternal> I mean, it asks me multiple times if I want to do this or that...I accidentally said no to a pop up earlier, and I haven't eaten in 4 days
[06:39] <Hobbsee> what for?
[06:39] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: im joking
[06:39] <Hobbsee> oh, ick
[06:39] <Hobbsee> why is xp_killer in there?
[06:39] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: when nixternal said that whole, vista rocks thing
[06:39] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: i threw in a ban joke
[06:39] <nixternal> a bad joke :)
[06:39] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[06:40] <Hobbsee> keep a watch on xp_killer.  he's a bit of a troll
[06:40] <coreymon77> nixternal: no, a ban joke
[06:40] <nixternal> Hobbsee: that I know, I have booted him in the past
[06:40] <Hobbsee> nixternal: across how many channels?  :)
[06:40] <nixternal> sometimes though, he can offer some decent help from what I have seen
[06:40] <nixternal> probably 4 :)
[06:40] <coreymon77> ive noticed
[06:40] <coreymon77> hes kinda trolling in kubuntu
[06:40] <Hobbsee> yay, flaccid.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> those two will probably keep egging each other on.
[06:41] <coreymon77> i know
[06:41] <nixternal> hehe
[06:41] <coreymon77> xp_killer is telling people to go against howtos though
[06:41] <nixternal> it is time for some sleep...g'nite everyone
[06:41] <Hobbsee> damn, nixternal
[06:41] <Hobbsee> dont go to sleep
[06:42] <nixternal> hehe
[06:42] <Hobbsee> or at least, kickban any offenders in #Kubuntu before you do
[06:42] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:42] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: just go take care of xp_killer before you go
[06:43] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: night all
[06:43] <coreymon77> i mean
[06:43] <coreymon77> night all
[06:43] <coreymon77> no highlight
[07:05] <Jucato> drat! missed both Hobbsee and coreymon...
[07:06] <daSkreech> That's harsh man :)
[07:06] <Jucato> hehe /me <3 nixternal
[07:06] <Jucato> er..
[07:07] <Jucato> and nothing will change that! not even Vista :)
[07:11] <daSkreech> :-)
[07:20] <n8k99> ah
[07:21] <n8k99> transglobal geek love!!
[07:48] <Jucato> that hurts!
[07:48] <daSkreech> I didn't use the stick!
[07:48] <daSkreech> Pressersation Ctrl+M in konv
[07:49] <Jucato> huh?
[07:49] <daSkreech> Press Ctrl+M in konversation
[07:49] <Jucato> it hides the menu. why?
[07:50] <daSkreech> Does it prompt you?
[07:50] <Jucato> yes
[07:51] <daSkreech> Why don't all K apps do that?
[07:51] <Jucato> afaik most of them have that feature, but disabled by default. not really sure
[07:51] <Jucato> #kde-devel probably?
[07:53] <daSkreech> Why don't we turn them on in Kubuntu?
[07:53] <Jucato> you think he'd agree? :)
[07:54] <daSkreech> I think it's useful enough to not freak out first time users
[07:54] <daSkreech> and it has a button to say don't show me this again
[07:55] <daSkreech> or at least heavy usage apps like amarok and kopete
[07:55] <Jucato> the amarok devs approached the issue by disabling the feature all together
[07:55] <daSkreech> I know I saw
[07:57] <daSkreech> Well bed time
[07:57] <daSkreech> Night night
[07:57] <Jucato> night
[08:36] <allee> morning
[08:37] <daSkreech> morning
[08:38] <Jucato> good morning allee :)
[08:40] <Jucato> +12 hours :)
[08:45] <freeflying> hi all
[09:14] <allee> Fact, like a physical law: everytime of the day is better than an early morning ;-)
[09:21] <mhb> Jucato: it's like this: fosscamp during the weekend, then Mo-Fri is UDS
[09:22] <Jucato> ah I see. thanks for the clarification :)
[09:23] <mhb> Jucato: so it's part of the Canonical summit, but not really part of UDS
[09:23] <_StefanS_> mornings!
[09:23] <_StefanS_> Jucato, mhb !
[09:23] <Jucato> moin _StefanS_
[09:23] <_StefanS_> so wassup kids
[09:23] <_StefanS_> :D
[09:23] <Jucato> going for a short nap.
[09:23] <Jucato> need to store and save energy for tomorrow :)
[09:24] <_StefanS_> Jucato: see you
[09:24] <Jucato> SFD celebration yay!
[09:36] <mhb> hi _StefanS_
[09:54] <_StefanS_> hmm I think the "GDebi Package Installer" should just be named "Package Installer"
[09:54] <_StefanS_> (when rightclicking on a .deb file)
[09:56] <ScottK> I think we shouldn't have it installed by default, but that's not a popular view around here.
[09:56] <ScottK> Hello mhb.
[09:57] <_StefanS_> having it available is nice I think, doesn't hurt. I just sorta hate to spell through the applicationname when I actually just need to identify an action
[10:01] <ScottK> I don't mind it being availalbe, I just think that installed by default leans a bit far forward in encouraging users to install 3rd party crack.
[10:05] <_StefanS_> oh yep.. indeed
[10:05] <_StefanS_> maybe a warning would be suitable
[10:07] <allee> _StefanS_: what's the status of kblueooth kcm paired devices crash?  AFAIR you had a look at it
[10:08] <_StefanS_> allee: right I did, still no progress unfortunately.
[10:09] <_StefanS_> allee: I will try to look at it later
[10:09] <allee> _StefanS_: okay.  I'll keep pestering you ;)
[10:09] <_StefanS_> allee: please do
[10:09] <_StefanS_> allee: the bug is really freaking me out, and there's another on aswell for bt mice, causing it to ask for permission to pair it all the time
[11:26] <allee> _StefanS_: pester (tpatzig?) on #kdeblueooth
[11:27] <_StefanS_> allee: i'll catch him
[12:09] <gomatteo> Hi all. I'm thinking that we don't need python for daemons, like guidance-power-manager or guidance-power-manager
[12:09] <gomatteo> Why not rewrite them in C++?
[12:19] <Jucato> gomatteo: in the meantime, you might want to Google about this. the topic has been discussed/blogged/posted before by the developers of guidance.
[12:19] <hunger> How do I stop that damn strigi applet from getting started?
[12:20] <Jucato> hunger: /usr/share/autostart ?
[12:20] <gomatteo> Jucato: Thanks, I googled but don't find anything useful. I'll search better
[12:21] <hunger> Jucato: There must be a way to turn this of per user or at least one where that applet does not get restarted after each upgrade:-(
[12:21] <Jucato> "should be" vs. "there is"... :(
[12:22] <Jucato> there should be a dialog box asking if the user wants it to be started at login, ala korgac or adept_notifier
[12:31] <allee> _StefanS_: when you merge beta7 please add in kblueplugd after app = on the next line:
[12:31] <allee> if app.isSessionRestored() : quit()
[12:32] <allee> stops kblueplugd that are restored via session management.
[12:40] <_StefanS_> allee: ok
[12:46] <_StefanS_> allee: isn't that part of the kubuntu patches? I was to merge them also
[01:09] <allee> _StefanS_: yes it's kubuntu specific.  But Tonio_ last uploaded pkgs does not contain the fix
[03:07] <milian> since todays upgrade cedega and wine wont work in windowed mode - they make my xorg restart
[03:07] <milian> is there an apt-log or something?
[03:07] <milian> to see which packages were upgraded?
[03:10] <milian> ah, found it
[03:17] <manchicken> Does anybody know who Marco Maini is?
[03:18] <Jucato> sunds family
[03:18] <Jucato> er.. familiar
[03:20] <manchicken> He's putting a lot of nonsensical stuff into adept bugs.  It's kinda... confusing.
[03:20] <LongPointyStick> does it give you an irc nick?
[03:20] <manchicken> maini10 IIRC
[03:21] <manchicken> I've never seen that nick around though.
[03:21] <Jucato> google mostly shows LP stuf
[03:21] <Jucato> stuff*
[03:21] <manchicken> He's in kubuntu-testers and ubuntu-bugsquad
[03:22] <Jucato> oh
[03:22] <\sh> hmmm
[03:22] <\sh> bug 73859 , we are using kdesudo right? not kdesu from kdebase anymore?
[03:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 73859 in kleansweep "Installation of Kleansweep on Ubuntu (Gnome) fails to install kdesu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73859
[03:22] <manchicken> But like, bug #136381, he's putting a lot of strange stuff that is more repetitive than useful into the bug reports.
[03:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136381 in adept "Adept doesn't show changelogs." [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136381
[03:22] <LongPointyStick> Shely: we're using kdesudo, yes
[03:23] <LongPointyStick> afaik, anyway
[03:23] <\sh> if it's still valid for gutsy
[03:23] <Jucato> LongPointyStick: on Gutsy? yep
[03:23] <Jucato> kdesu is a symlink to kdesudo
[03:24] <manchicken> Did they take away the link that lets us assign bugs to ourselves?
[03:25] <LongPointyStick> no
[03:25] <LongPointyStick> they havent implemented bug hell yet
[03:25] <manchicken> Bug hell?
[03:25] <manchicken> Nevermind
[03:26] <manchicken> The little down-arrow icon is less than obvious.
[03:26] <manchicken> I would consider adept not showing changelogs properly a medium priority.  Would you agree LongPointyStick?
[03:26] <\sh> Jucato, cool...bugs fixed ,-)
[03:27] <milian> ah, it was a driver issue, fixed
[03:28] <manchicken> milian: Isn't it always? :)
[03:28] <milian> most often, yes :)
[03:28] <manchicken> That's what I love about my system76.  It's seldom a driver issue :)
[03:28] <milian> I'll have to test the nvidia packages in the repo again one time
[03:29] <milian> manually installing it works but you see what happens ;-)
[03:31] <\sh> grmpf...the bug is not fixed
[03:31] <manchicken> Well this Marco guy is motivating me to fix bugs by posting his comments on the bug.  Maybe it's not so bad afterall.
[03:31] <\sh> kleansweep doesn't install kdesudo or kdesu from kdebase because there is no dep
[03:48] <mhb> Jucato: It became apparent that I needed to learn packaging whether I liked it or not -- can you guess who said that?
[03:48] <Jucato> me too
[03:48] <Jucato> er.. me
[03:48] <Jucato> I'm just putting it off for now
[03:51] <LongPointyStick> haha
[03:53] <Jucato> oh well... I'll cross the bridge when I get there... sorry mhb
[03:55] <mhb> Jucato: Have Sho_'s comments turned you off?
[03:56] <Jucato> not really
[03:56] <LongPointyStick> what's sho_ saying nwo?
[03:56] <Jucato> I provoked him to comment heheh
[03:56] <Jucato> it did make me pause though :)
[05:23] <nixternal> Hobbsee: you get a chance to do the kubuntu-docs yet? I just updated the docs package I uploaded to http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/docs to close a bug
[05:25] <Jucato> me waves to nixternal
[05:25] <Jucato> oh dang! where did that / go? :?
[05:25] <nixternal> hehe
[05:25] <nixternal> howdy
[05:27] <nixternal> it is a quick and easy upload...but it needs to get uploaded asap for translations to begin
[05:28] <Jucato> nixternal: btw, did you see the comments in #kde yesterday when mhb brought up the request of our translators?
[05:28] <nixternal> Jucato: no I didn't
[05:29] <Hobbsee> nixternal: this had better not be crack.
[05:29] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I don't do crack
[05:29] <Hobbsee> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
[05:29] <nixternal> and if it was, it is only the docs :)
[05:29] <Hobbsee>   kubuntu-docs_7.10-4.dsc: done.
[05:29] <Hobbsee>   kubuntu-docs_7.10-4.tar.gz:
[05:29] <Hobbsee> oh good
[05:30] <nixternal> I make sure I test build every package and run it locally to make sure
[05:30] <Jucato> nixternal: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23kde/20070913.html.gz
[05:30] <nixternal> well, I didn't this time only because I just updated a string and the pot files, so they don't interfere with the building anyways
[05:30] <Jucato> scroll down to 20.20.33, where troy says "mhb: pong"
[05:31] <Jucato> nixternal: or better yet, 20:38.13 for the exact translation comments
[05:31] <Jucato> (that was 20:20.33 btw)
[05:39] <nixternal> jeesh
[05:39] <nixternal> I will re-read that later..gotta roll to school
[05:39] <nixternal> back in a bit
[05:39] <Jucato> hehe bye
[05:42] <DaSkreech> whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????????
[05:43] <Jucato> your fault duh!
[05:46] <DaSkreech> `It was an offKoast Qtuake
[05:50] <bddebian> Heya
[05:50] <Jucato> hiya
[05:52] <bddebian> Hi Jucato


[12:26] <leonel> How about  an  Enterprise support for Motu-server  :)
[12:27] <ftoo_on_gutsy> how about enterprise support for ipv6-only-ubuntu-server
[12:28] <ftoo_on_gutsy> or even enterprise support for my nackered old back .... :)
[06:42] <mikubuntu> am i connected here, or is there just no chatter tonite
[06:42] <jbrouhard> virtually no chatter
[06:42] <jbrouhard> hey PanzerMKZ
[06:43] <mikubuntu> jbrouhard: i wondered
[06:45] <mikubuntu> can anyone suggest the easiest approach to setting up the server packages i need to be able to start building ecommerce product pages?  oh, ya, very newb question.
[06:47] <mikubuntu> alternatively, can anyone be my b*#%&, and just handle the difficult parts for me? (i learned that on the linuxhelpask page, where they recommend the approach)
[06:48] <mikubuntu> lol
[07:20] <monsterb> hi all
[07:21] <monsterb> !bind
[07:21] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bind - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[08:40] <soren> mikubuntu: Depends. Do you already have the e-commerce software?
[09:06] <kraut> moin
[09:41] <pteague> is there a reason my ubuntu server is doing everything in uppercase?
[04:13] <mralphabet> pteague: define "everything"
[05:15] <raky> is this true?  "GRUB has built-in support for basic networking; this makes network booting extremely easy. Unfortunately the pre-built binaries don't have this support compiled in; you will need to compile GRUB for your specific network card."
[05:16] <mathiaz> raky: yes.
[06:17] <dholbach> hey folks
[06:18] <dholbach> I'm just triaging the sponsoring bug queue at the moment
[06:18] <dholbach> could somebody check out the patch on bug 91607?
[06:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91607 in postfix-policyd "postfix-policyd init script doesn't behave" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91607
[06:19] <dholbach> oops sorry that's fixed already
[06:22] <CharlieSu> How do you tell what status code a program exited with?
[06:26] <soren> CharlieSu: Depends... If you just ran it from the command line, "echo $?" immediately after it will show you the exit code.
[06:58] <CharlieSu> soren: thanks dude..  that worked.. what other ways are there?
[06:58] <mralphabet> strace
[06:59] <soren> CharlieSu: It depends on how you're calling the program.
[07:00] <soren> CharlieSu: If you're calling it from a C program, it's part of the return code from the wait() system call.
[08:49] <m11> evening all
[09:30] <pteague> mralphabet> nope, i mean all the characters are showing up as uppercase...  caps lock off ls shows up as LS, but it does the ls command... if i use shift or caps lock it shows up as LS, but says command not found...  ls / shows stuff like BOOT, ETC, DEV, etc - rebooting fixed it i think
[09:44] <mralphabet> pteague: o0 that's odd to say the least
[09:59] <soren> pteague: What's your username on the machine?
[10:00] <soren> pteague: Does it begin with an uppercase letter, perhaps?
[10:00] <pteague> nope
[10:01] <pteague> i've been using linux a while... just the first time i set up ubuntu server
[10:02] <soren> It's pretty easy to reproduce.
[10:02] <soren> In a console (when logging in) type the username in uppercase letters.
[10:02] <mralphabet> o0
[10:04] <soren> mralphabet: You need to think back to the day when not all terminals supported both upper and lower case letters.
[10:04] <mralphabet> soren: it is possible that predates my experience
[10:04] <soren> mralphabet: Quite possibly. Do you have a long grey beard?
[10:05] <mralphabet> soren: no, I shave ;)
[10:05] <soren> Then you're not old enough. :)
[10:05] <mralphabet> hah
[10:08] <pteague> it looks like my mdadm.conf file is messed up... it doesn't list any of the drives that are a part of the raid array
[10:11] <pteague> ah, i see it's using /proc/partitions ... any idea how i can figure out the UUIDs of certain devices? such as /dev/sda1, etc?
[10:13] <soren> /lib/udev/vol_id
[10:13] <mralphabet> pteague: /dev/disk/by-uuid/
[10:14] <mralphabet> ls -al /dev/disk/by-uuid/ specifically
[10:16] <soren> Or just "sudo /lib/udev/vol_id /dev/sda1", for instance.
[10:17] <pteague> ok, now i'm confused as to why UUIDs are being used in /etc/fstab instead of just /dev/hda1 for example
[10:18] <pteague> does ubuntu automatically rebuild the soft links on boot based on the serial # or something from the devices to keep the UUIDs the same?
[10:19] <pteague> or maybe the person who told me the switch to UUIDs in /etc/fstab because /dev/hda1 may never point to the same device didn't know what they were talking about?
[10:20] <ScottK> pteague: What release are you running?
[10:20] <pteague> 7.04
[10:21] <ScottK> UUID is generally the way to go then.  "the person" was on target for machines with more than one drive (or array in the RAID case).
[10:22] <ScottK> Looking where mralphabet said is the right place to look.
[10:28] <pteague> yeah, but the 3 drives i'm using in my raid array do not have UUIDs assigned to them...  I'm trying to figure out how to make the raid array be more stable or something... everytime i reboot it states that none of the devices in the array were detected & that there was no raid superblock on sda (or maybe sda1?) & then it looks like it attempts to reimage the raid array
[10:31] <pteague> http://pastebin.com/m7c438d46
[10:32] <ScottK> If you are doing it by device name, shouldn't it be md0?
[10:35] <pteague> yes, md0 is made up of 3 drives - /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb1, & /dev/sdc1 - after booting it has to put the raid back together again & it's saying the /dev/sda1 does not have a valid raid superblock
[10:35] <mralphabet> pteague: grub doesn't like to boot to raid 5
[10:36] <pteague> /dev/hda1 is mounted as /, /dev/hda2 is swap, & md0 is mounted as /home
[10:38] <pteague> /dev/hda is an 5.8g pata hd & /dev/sda-sdc are 400g sata hds
[10:44] <pteague> mralphabet> or is the 'error' being reported because it's initially trying to attach it when linux is booting up & fails, but then puts it together & mounts it later?
[10:54] <mralphabet> pteague: if you look at /boot/grub/menu.lst, what is the partition it is trying to boot?
[10:54] <mralphabet> ie for mine it says: kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-server root=/dev/md0 ro quiet splash
[10:55] <mralphabet> in my case, md0 is mirrored pata 80's
[11:15] <pteague> it boots off the UUID that i believe is the UUID for /dev/hda1
[11:17] <pteague> dang, i moved the box to where it needs to go & now it's giving me fsck failed & dumping me into admin mode... apparently my md0 is failing - it has an invalid ext2 partition
[11:20] <mralphabet> ouch
[11:22] <pteague> at least it's /home & i hadn't completely rsynced it yet
[11:25] <m11> hey guys
[11:25] <m11> i am planing to get dell poweredge 2900 , did any of you tested that server with ubuntu ?
[11:26] <m11> http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pedge_2900?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~section=specs#tabtop
[11:27] <pteague> ah, it's saying /dev/sda1 appears to contain an ext2 filesystem & also appears to be part of a raid array, /dev/sdb1 appears to be a part of a raid array, & cannot open /dev/sdc1: device or resource busy
[11:28] <pteague> i may just reinstall stuff & see if i can get it to work correctly again


[05:10] <ajmitch> well that's a bit large to review - someone submitted mozilla seamonkey to the ARB
[05:30] <ersi> how nice
[07:04] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39] <dholbach> ajmitch, did you see the merge proposal from mhall119? looks like he perfected the dir() usage :)
[08:04] <dholbach> mhall119, in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-app-review-contributors/arb-lint/trunk/view/head:/lint/sourcepackage.py#L28 I thought I would be able to get rid of lines 28-29 now, but that doesn't seem to work
[08:08] <dholbach> ajmitch, highvoltage, wendar: do you think we can add some examples to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/AppsSprint?
[08:08] <dholbach> I think it's the only bit we still need to do to announce the initiative
[08:25] <dholbach> ajmitch, wendar, stgraber, any suggestions for tests we should be adding to arb-lint? I just added something about debian/copyright and DEP5
[08:26] <dholbach> I might need help for a proper test of what's allowed and what's not allowed in/outside /opt
[09:48] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines might have to be updated for precise
[09:54] <dholbach> ajmitch, wendar, highvoltage, stgraber: I just filed a couple of bugs on arb-lint: https://bugs.launchpad.net/arb-lint - some of them should probably quite easy to fix
[09:54] <dholbach> it's what I teased out of the guidelines which might make sense to test
[10:50] <ajmitch> dholbach: looks like you've been very busy
[10:59]  * ajmitch was just looking through the code, will have to leave comments on it tomorrow
[11:05] <dholbach> ajmitch, a bit here and a bit there
[12:21] <dholbach> ajmitch, wendar, highvoltage, stgraber, mhall119, james_w, achuni: if you have a little bit of time, please let me know what you think: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/apps-sprint.html :)
[12:53] <mhall119> dholbach: re http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-app-review-contributors/arb-lint/trunk/view/head:/lint/sourcepackage.py#L28, why would you get rid of line 28 and 29?
[13:40] <dholbach> mhall119, I thought the new mechanism wouldn't run a method twice even if it was required in multiple places
[13:41] <highvoltage> dholbach: nice post
[13:42] <dholbach> highvoltage, cool - I was just wondering if I was missing anything
[13:44] <highvoltage> well, there's quite a bit I need to absorb myself. I still haven't tried pkgme, the apps-brancher or arb-lint. so it's kind of nice as a summary of some of the things I still need to do, too :)
[13:44] <dholbach> hah, great
[13:44] <dholbach> highvoltage, these are the tests which arb-lint already has: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1066031/
[13:45] <dholbach> so there's still a bit to do, but when I ran it on a couple of apps it already gave me a  few things which could/should be fixed
[13:45] <highvoltage> nice
[13:46] <dholbach> highvoltage, I was wondering if for the apps sprint we should use something like Trello to organise who's working on what and in which state it is
[13:46] <dholbach> I like how it's very visual and you see everything at a glance
[13:47] <dholbach> but I wouldn't want to impose some new tool on everybody, especially if myApps already handles different kinds of queues
[13:54] <mhall119> dholbach: it won't run it twice when doing dependency resolution
[13:54] <mhall119> dholbach: but it will still run it twice if some other code calls it
[13:54] <dholbach> hum, let me try again then
[13:55] <mhall119> so if you call find_B, and find_B has @requires('field_A'), it will call find_A()
[13:55] <mhall119> if you call find_C(), and find_C() also @requires('field_A'), it won't call it again
[13:56] <mhall119> but, if you call find_A(), it won't stop that call from going through
[13:56] <dholbach> mhall119, try http://paste.ubuntu.com/1066048/ with trunk
[13:56] <dholbach> it gets called twice
[13:57] <mhall119> right
[13:57] <mhall119> it's called one because it's required by another function
[13:57] <mhall119> then your test.py code is calling it again, because it starts with find_
[13:57] <dholbach> huuuuuuuuuum
[13:57] <dholbach> hrmhrmhrmhrmhrm
[13:58] <dholbach> it'd be nice if it'd just get called once :)
[13:58] <mhall119> I can make it avoid calling it again, even when other code tries to call it directly
[13:58] <dholbach> then test.py would need to be cleverer
[14:04] <dholbach> mhall119, did the blog post look alright to you?
[14:05] <mhall119> dholbach: yeah
[14:05] <mhall119> sorry, I thought I mentioned that
[14:05] <dholbach> cool thanks
[14:05] <dholbach> no worries
[14:05] <mhall119> np
[14:05] <mhall119> dholbach: I think we should have a "how to join and what to do" blog post for the ARB helpers team
[14:06] <dholbach> yep, although I think I'd prefer it if somebody from the ARB would write it
[14:06] <mhall119> then spam the heck out of it to get volunteers in
[14:06] <dholbach> as I'm still not 100% sure how everything works :)
[14:17] <dholbach> coolbhavi, what do you think of http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/apps-sprint.html?
[14:19] <coolbhavi> dholbach, I cant think of a better way of explanation :) It looks great!
[14:20] <dholbach> awesome, thanks
[14:39] <mhall119> 34 apps that I know of being written for the showdown contest
[14:39] <vibhav> wow
[14:39] <vibhav> Many of my friends to came to know about this contest
[14:40] <mhall119> make that 35, just got another one :)
[14:41] <dholbach> ajmitch, coolbhavi, highvoltage, stgraber, wendar: we will have to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/apps-brancher/+bug/1019300 quite soon
[14:45] <wendar> dholbach: ?
[14:45] <dholbach> wendar, which point are you wondering about? I think I mentioned you a couple of times in the last few lines :)
[14:46] <wendar> apps brancher? It's still experimental, so are bugs worth pinging everyone about?
[14:47] <wendar> signal-to-noise ratio
[14:48] <wendar> dholbach: a very cool idea, btw :)
[14:48] <dholbach> sorry about that - I just thought that it'd provide a very simple way to get all apps (no matter if they're branches, in PPAs or tarballs) in a consistent way and it'd make sense for the app showdown
[14:49] <dholbach> but feel free to ignore the ping
[14:50] <wendar> dholbach: it's a cool tool
[14:51] <wendar> dholbach: well, I haven't used it yet, but I like the potential
[14:55] <wendar> dholbach: have you been granted permission to do ARB stuff on work time now?
[14:55] <wendar> dholbach: if so, I could set you some assignments, structure your time for maximum impact
[14:58] <dholbach> it might be good to discuss on the mailing list what needs to be done most importantly
[15:04] <wendar> dholbach: app triage, app fixing, app review, app voting
[15:04] <wendar> dholbach: the developer's experience on their way through the review process is the top priority, and responsiveness is the key to that
[15:05] <wendar> dholbach: it's actually pretty simple, it just requires an investment of time
[15:07] <wendar> dholbach: so if you have time, we'll happily use it :)
[15:08] <dholbach> right, that's why I felt the apps-brancher and arb-lint would help being more responsive - also I put up a few apps for vote
[15:08] <wendar> dholbach: much appreciated
[15:09] <wendar> dholbach: and apologies that I still haven't had time to look at either of the tools, or review the apps up for vote
[15:09] <coolbhavi> dholbach, same here  I have it on my todo this weekend
[15:09] <dholbach> don't worry - it happens to all of us every other time
[15:10] <coolbhavi> wendar, hey
[15:10] <wendar> hi coolbhavi
[15:10] <wendar> dholbach: I might look at restructuring my time so that I only review votable apps, once we have enough arb-helpers
[15:11] <wendar> dholbach: the problem now is that there's not really much I can do in a 2 hour snippet of time
[15:11] <coolbhavi> wendar, I'm sorry that m not attending ARB meetings of late as 21 UTC would be like early morning 02.30 here
[15:11] <wendar> dholbach: at least, not when I'm trying to tend the queue
[15:12] <wendar> coolbhavi: no worries, we changed the schedule because of other conflicts, knowing that no time would work for everyone
[15:12] <dholbach> I hope we can get some new reviewers through the Apps Sprint
[15:12] <wendar> coolbhavi: but, I hope you'll be able to make some of the times next week
[15:13] <wendar> coolbhavi: even if it's only an hour or two sometime during the few days
[15:13] <coolbhavi> wendar, sure! I am actually looking forward to the app sprint
[15:13] <wendar> dholbach: yes, and we also need to find a good way to be more engaged with the arb-helpers who already volunteered
[15:14] <wendar> dholbach: we haven't really established a good workflow there, to let them feel confident that they know what to pickup next and work on
[15:14] <dholbach> absolutely - I hope that training will work well there
[15:14] <dholbach> yes
[15:26] <vibhav> What exactly is the app sprint?
[15:29] <mhall119> vibhav: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/apps-sprint.html
[15:39] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[15:44] <wendar> Hi PaoloRotolo
[15:45] <PaoloRotolo> wendar, Hi!
[16:13] <dholbach> who can punt the PDF submissions into the other queue? (Revista Espírito Livre)
[16:13] <dholbach> also the Ubuntistas magazine
[16:14] <stgraber> I can do that
[16:14] <dholbach> when I looked the queue, I wondered if https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1081/ shouldn't be rejected as it looks to be a fork of chromium (not sure though), but with 37M very likely not in an 'app format'
[16:19] <stgraber> dholbach: moved all the "Revista Espírito Livre" to commercial, let me know if you spot more
[16:20] <dholbach> stgraber, https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1074/
[16:21] <stgraber> gone
[16:21] <dholbach> great
[16:22] <dholbach> stgraber, what do you think about https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/1081/?
[16:23] <stgraber> dholbach: well, no source provided to start with and even if they did provide the source, it'd likely be way too big for ARB
[16:24] <dholbach> yes, that's what I thought too, plus it's likely a fork
[16:24] <dholbach> should it just be rejected?
[16:24] <dholbach> with a pointer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages maybe?
[16:25] <stgraber> I can move to commercial as it seems to be developed by a company but I doubt anyone wants another copy of webkit :)
[16:25] <stgraber> TBH, I wouldn't even let that thing in the archive
[16:26] <stgraber> we have enough copies of webkit that it's causing us problems updating them all every month or so already
[16:27] <dholbach> shall I add a standard reply for "huge apps"?
[16:27] <dholbach> maybe something like this: "We are sorry to inform you that this app is outside the scope of the App Review Board. Our focus is on lightweight apps. We are generally looking for the kind of apps which could be reviewed for functionality and security in about an hour reading through the code. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages might suit you better.
[16:27] <dholbach> "
[16:28] <dholbach> wendar, ^ do you think this might work for huge apps - if so I'd add it to the wiki and arb-lint as a canned response
[16:28] <stgraber> +1
[16:36] <dholbach> ok, put onto the wiki and arb-lint
[16:36] <dholbach> and with that I think I call it a day - it's definitely time for dinner over here :)
[16:36] <dholbach> have a great weekend everyone
[16:36] <stgraber> thanks, you too
[16:36] <dholbach> :)
[21:01] <wendar> ajmitch: meeting time? (or, am I off in time-zone?)
[21:02] <ajmitch> yes, sorry I got distracted fora  few minutes :)
[21:03] <ajmitch> highvoltage, stgraber: arb meeting ping
[21:03] <highvoltage> ah right. the 5pm on a friday meeting
[21:03] <highvoltage> hi everyone!
[21:04] <ajmitch> yeah, sorry about the time
[21:04] <highvoltage> I guess it's worse for you anyway :)
[21:04] <stgraber> hello (pretending I didn't completely forget about the meeting)
[21:04] <ajmitch> <-- #ubuntu-meeting


[04:58] <lifeless> anyone around?
[20:46] <wgrant> sinzui: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/more-log-parser-fixes/+merge/46951
[20:58] <jcsackett> sinzui: can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/archivemirror-timeout-618400-2/+merge/46554 when you get the chance?
[20:58] <bac> deryck: have ten seconds? https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-705594/+merge/46970
[20:58] <deryck> bac, sure.  looking now....
[21:02] <deryck> bac, looks great.  If you wouldn't mind, it would be good to reformat those lines to our 78 chars rule, but I'm not picky on that.... given we have failed at that in js historically.
[21:02] <bac> thanks
[21:53] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: can you review: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~edwin-grubbs/launchpad/bug-663857-product-packages-timeout-part2/+merge/46985
[21:59] <EdwinGrubbs> StevenK: can you review ^^^
[22:05] <StevenK> thumper: https://code.launchpad.net/~edwin-grubbs/launchpad/bug-663857-product-packages-timeout-part2/+merge/46985 for mentor +1


[13:21] <gary_poster> hey bac.  I am checking out the add widget.  It is looking good.  Even the help text presentation is good enough for now.  I strongly suspect you are aware of all of these, but I have a few notes as I click around.
[13:22] <gary_poster> 1) until we have a better approach implemented, I suggested including the ellipsis (or "[more options]"?) at the end of "are added or changed in any way" and "bugs must match this filter" when they are not expanded.
[13:23] <gary_poster> 2) We should consider including the "-" feature of tag matching in the tag help.  I say consider because I'm not sure that introducing the complexity here is worth it, but it is a thought I have.
[13:24] <gary_poster> 3) the importances don't look like they are sorted yet.  They ought to be.
[13:26] <gary_poster> 4) It looks to me like we need some padding within the primary div of each accordion pane.  Just a bit.  Right now it looks just a hair cramped to me on the edges.
[13:27] <gary_poster> 5) If you select a team from the team dropdown, the radio button for "One of the teams you administer" should be selected IMO
[13:27] <gary_poster> 6) "filter out comments" is selected initially.  I don't think it should be.
[13:28] <gary_poster> 7) You mentioned the Cancel button visual oddity.  I agree, but it is a low priority.
[13:28] <gary_poster> That's it.  You probably have all of those, but I wanted to be explicit about them.
[13:28] <gary_poster> bac benji gmb, mumble/kanban/weekly call in 2
[13:29] <gary_poster> oh meh, I didn't do my action items :-(
[13:29] <gary_poster> or file my expenses :-(
[13:30] <bac> ok
[13:30] <gary_poster> yoohoo gmb
[13:30] <bac> gmb no aqui
[13:30] <bac> he emailed me to say he had to be out
[13:30] <gary_poster> oh!
[13:31] <gary_poster> ok
[13:31] <gary_poster> 1 sec and I'll be there
[13:53] <bac> http://www.amazon.com/Waltzing-Bears-Managing-Software-Projects/dp/0932633609
[14:45] <bac> anyone up for an informal team-based bookmooch?
[14:57] <gary_poster> bac, you mean trading books around?  I'd be up for that, but I've been getting a lot of my books these days as e-books, which don't loan that well unless I remove the DRM, which I have been tempted to do but have not gotten around to.
[14:57] <gary_poster> I actually can loan my current project management e-book 'cause it is not DRMed.
[14:57] <gary_poster> I have some SciFi/Fantasy real books I'd love to share/loan/give to whoever is interested
[16:20] <bac> gary_poster: i meant, mainly, books for work like the one benji referenced
[16:20] <gary_poster> cool
[16:20] <bac> gary_poster: plus you can now loan kindle books.  but only one per book's lifetime
[16:21] <bac> s/one/once
[16:21] <gary_poster> yeah, which is freaking insane
[16:21] <gary_poster> and it is only for certain books AIUI
[16:22] <gary_poster> I have these on Kindle right now...I'm at various stages of reading them
[16:22] <gary_poster> Crucial Confrontations
[16:22] <gary_poster> The Non-Designer's Design Book
[16:23] <gary_poster> Flexible Web Design: Creating Liquid and Elastic Layouts with CSS
[16:23] <gary_poster> Manage It!
[16:23] <gary_poster> The last one is the one I suspect is similar in part to Waltzing with Bears
[16:24] <gary_poster> Oh, and Manage It! is an epub, not Amazon
[16:24] <gary_poster> REST in Practice
[16:25] <gary_poster> Introducing HTML 5
[16:25] <gary_poster> I'm kinda done with those two.  Maybe.
[16:25] <benji> I have a few dead-tree books that someone might be interested in: Relase It!, Waltzing with Bears, Peopleware (I suspect everyone's already read it), Managing Humans
[16:25] <gary_poster> And I hope to get back to and Teach Yourself Electricty and Electronics
[16:26] <gary_poster> I'd be interested in Peopleware (I've heard about it so much I feel like I've read it) and Waltzing with Bears, but it would be silly to claim those right now
[16:26] <gary_poster> given the rest of my list
[16:26] <benji> :)
[16:30] <gary_poster> I updated https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow with notes from today's call and also sent out an email about it since almost half our number were missing
[16:31] <gary_poster> I sent an email to Francis about the schedule slip; no word back yet.
[16:32] <gary_poster> Also, as a reminder and so folks know, our baby is due April 22, which is getting surprisingly close when you think in terms of weeks.
[16:37] <benji> gary_poster: do you know what kind of paternity leave you'll be taking?
[17:08] <gary_poster> benji, I expect around 1 week.  no more than 2
[17:09] <benji> I don't envy the sleepless nights
[17:10] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:42] <bac> hi benji are you currently working on structural_subscription.js?   if so, it might be good for us to coordinate.  i'm still trying to work out all of the merge issues and fear what may happen if it is still a moving target.
[17:44] <benji> bac: yep, I'm working on it, but at a very slow pace at the moment (trying to debug something)
[17:45] <bac> ok
[18:08] <bac> benji: i just pushed a new rev to  bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~yellow/launchpad/accordionoverlay/.  this version fixes all of the merge issues i could find.  you may want to exercise it manually to ensure your stuff still works
[18:08] <bac> benji: note i do have one known but not understood failure in my test.
[18:09] <benji> bac: thanks; I'll also attempt a merge from there a little later so we can keep in sync
[18:09] <benji> k
[18:37] <benji> gary_poster: Question on the 'add a filter when creating a subscription' bit": is that enforced in the DB?  I need to add a "don't create an initial filter" flag to addBugSubscription.
[18:37] <gary_poster> no, it is not, benji
[18:37] <benji> cool
[18:38] <gary_poster> will that be across separate transactions?
[18:38] <gary_poster> IOW, it will conceivably lead to subscriptions without filters?
[18:38] <gary_poster> If so, I'm concerned by it.
[18:39] <benji> given Murphy's Law, it will
[18:39] <gary_poster> right
[18:39] <gary_poster> so, I'd encourage considering another approach
[18:41] <benji> unfortunately this is about the third one I've considered; if I had a way to know that a subscription was just created (the code lies if one wasn't and just returns the preexisting one) then I'd still have the race condition of someone else modifying the filter before I do
[18:42] <benji> have we added any real requirement that subscriptions always have filters?  if not, rescending that may be the best choice
[18:42] <gary_poster> can it return an identifier of what was created?
[18:42] <benji> I wish Leonard were around because I'd like to run this problem by him
[18:43] <benji> right now it returns a redirect to either the subscription that was just created or the pre-existing subscription with no hint as to which really happened
[18:44] <gary_poster> ok...so this is actually mixed with another problem
[18:44] <gary_poster> or, put another way, you encountering a practical ramification of a theoretical worry I've had before
[18:44] <benji> I /guess/ I could add a response header to tell you what happened.  That's really a shame though because the right way to do that is to return a different status code in that case, but the LP code "lies" about creating the subscription to lazr.restful which duitifully reports back "hey, I created it!"
[18:44] <benji> what's that theoretical worry?
[18:44] <gary_poster> that can't be corrected?
[18:45] <benji> re. correcting the lie: it could, but the API has acted that way since 2008.  I felt that adding another API was a big step so shied away from that
[18:46] <gary_poster> theoretical worry is that the REST API reflects our model too well here.  The fact that we want our users to think of filters as subscriptions is lost in the REST API.  Another related problem is a card in the back log now: "Webservice deletion of filters on structural subscriptions needs thought"
[18:47] <benji> indeed, we need something like the view layer
[18:47] <gary_poster> approach 1: since 2008: can the pertinent code change happen in the devel layer only?
[18:48] <gary_poster> the devel version I mean, sorry
[18:48] <gary_poster> this is a reasonable change to an API
[18:48] <gary_poster> and that's what that functionality is for
[18:48] <gary_poster> That said, back to the idea you started with...
[18:49] <benji> hmm, I don't know how to spell that (or if it's possible)
[18:49] <gary_poster> we were trying to make every subscription have a filter in order to make things simpler for display and editing
[18:50] <gary_poster> if we simply state that our views will have to hide the situation from our users...
[18:50] <benji> right... it might have backfired (or this could be easier in some circumstances than the other way)
[18:50] <gary_poster> you are going to be the one who has to pay the price primarily, either way
[18:51] <gary_poster> so you ought to have the freedom to make the decision
[18:51] <gary_poster> to go down this road, you'll need to be able to handle a structural subscription without any filters as if it had an empty filter
[18:52] <gary_poster> both for views and for edits
[18:53] <gary_poster> are those implications relatively clear, or would it be helpful for me to try and enumerate?
[18:53] <gary_poster> the kind of thing I mean: a structural subscription with a single "anything" filter and a structural subscription without any filters should be transparently identical from the perspective of working with your view and edit interface
[18:54] <benji> gary_poster: quite clear
[18:54] <gary_poster> ok
[18:54] <benji> gary_poster: what's our policy on write-on-read?
[18:55] <benji> doing an accational w-o-r might make it really easy to deal with
[18:55] <gary_poster> w-o-r: don't do it if at all possible.  We go so far as to enforce it with the DB
[18:55] <gary_poster> There is an escape hatch
[18:56] <gary_poster> but it is not liked
[18:57] <benji> ok, thanks; I'll endeavor to avoid it then
[18:58] <gary_poster> cool.  benji, if you decide conclusively to not require filter-per-subscription, it would be good to do it today, and then we need to clarify in bug 728818, bug 723999, and explicitly to Robert that this no longer needs to happen.
[18:58] <_mup_> Bug #728818: Production and qastaging should have a filter for every structural subscription <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/728818 >
[18:58] <_mup_> Bug #723999: BugNomination:+edit-form structural subscriptions taking 4.8 seconds during nomination editing POST <qa-ok> <story-better-bug-notification> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/723999 >
[18:59] <benji> ok, I'll try to decide one way or the other today
[19:01] <benji> gary_poster: do you think I'm unnecesarily avoiding adding an API?  If so, that might be the best route.
[19:02] <gary_poster> decide one way or the other today: great, thank you benji.  On a related topic, I'm about to start work on a branch to add the view with the subscriptions per taget.  I'd like to know where to look at your punchlist too.
[19:02] <gary_poster> Danilo will be working for a half day before we start Monday, so you and/or I should communicate the goals and the punchlist to him as clearly as possible to him in an email before we leave today.
[19:03] <gary_poster> unnecessarily adding an API: thinking...
[19:03] <gary_poster> "It depends" :-)
[19:03] <benji> gary_poster: https://pastebin.canonical.com/44626/
[19:04] <benji> :)
[19:04] <benji> I feel like there's a pattern here that someone should have already worked out
[19:04] <benji> ...someone at the door and I'm home alone, one sec
[19:04] <gary_poster> punchlist: tests of some sort are hard requirements too
[19:04] <gary_poster> cool
[19:05] <gary_poster> So API:
[19:05] <gary_poster> If the API can be argued to be an improvement, and a replacement of an old API, then I think it is fine.  It would work like this:
[19:05] <benji> (back)
[19:06] <gary_poster> ideally, new API would subsume old API
[19:06] <gary_poster> LP would only use new API
[19:06] <gary_poster> the new API would be exported in webservice as devel
[19:06] <gary_poster> and the old API would not be exported
[19:07] <gary_poster> However, it sounds like the planned change does not really warrant a change from the perspective of LP
[19:07] <gary_poster> it's webservice-specific
[19:07] <gary_poster> ...thinking about pattern for a sec...
[19:08] <gary_poster> well, there is a pattern, right?
[19:08] <gary_poster> and that's the API change you are talking about
[19:08] <gary_poster> if you are creating a new structural subscription
[19:09] <gary_poster> then send the right status
[19:09] <benji> the pattern is this: I want to ensure that one object exists (the subscription) so I can add another object to it (the filter), but I really don't care about the container itself and in fact want a reference to the second object (the filter)
[19:09] <gary_poster> if it already existed, then send the right status
[19:09] <gary_poster> well, if you had the status
[19:09] <benji> hmm, maybe I really want a "create a filter (and the subscription if it doesn't exist)" function
[19:10] <benji> the thing is, if I had the status I wouldn't have any idea where the "parent" subscripton lives; I'd have to send a seperate request for that (or smuggle it which from a design standpoint is the same thing)
[19:11] <benji> perhaps we should switch to voice channels
[19:11] <gary_poster> then you could say "make the structural subscription".  Reply says "yeah I made it" or "it was already there".  If "I made it" then use the first filter.  If "it was already there" then make a filter.  BTW, this must be for the adding story, not the editing story, right?
[19:11] <gary_poster> ok
[19:11] <benji> I'll prepare to discuss this further.
[19:11] <gary_poster> though I have screaming children in the vicinity
[19:11] <gary_poster> :-) ok
[19:11] <gary_poster> let's Skype
[19:13] <benji> k
[20:25] <benji> gary_poster: here's my draft for Danilo: https://pastebin.canonical.com/44632/
[20:26] <gary_poster> ack with you in a sec
[20:30] <gary_poster> benji, he will want to know what branch to get, to start with
[20:30] <benji> ah, good call
[20:32] <gary_poster> If it were I, I also get confused on how to find/build the JS (assuming it is in a separate file).  I'd like to know where to find it in the tree, and if I have to do anything build-wise for the changes to be seen
[20:33] <gary_poster> trivial typo: Unsubscriobe
[20:33] <gary_poster> For the unsubscribe link, I'd want to know what the heck to call--I'd have no clue
[20:34] <gary_poster> I don't know if he is as clueless as I in regards to our JS setup
[20:34] <gary_poster> IOW, does the task include writing a server side method that does what we need, and then exposing it?
[20:34] <gary_poster> Or does something already exist?
[20:35] <gary_poster> If the first, I'd need direction on how to do it, though there's a good chance he wouldn't.
[20:35] <gary_poster> If the second, tell me/him what it is :-)
[20:35] <gary_poster> benji ^^
[20:37] <benji> k, working on a revision
[20:41] <bac> lesson of the day:  if things happen via animation in JS you've got to wait in the test or they won't appear as modified.
[20:41] <bac> duh
[20:45] <benji> and I assume makes for slow tests too
[20:49] <gary_poster> :-)
[21:42] <gary_poster> bac, sorry :-P but I have a branch for you to look at.
[21:42] <gary_poster> benji, this is the branch that adds the equivalent "edit" page to the "unsubscribe in anger" page you have been working on.  After this I'll just need to do the cargo culting.
[21:42] <gary_poster> https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/add-target-subscription-page/+merge/53095
[21:42] <gary_poster> relatively small at least
[21:42] <bac> gary_poster: i was hoping to sneak by...
[21:42] <gary_poster> :-) sorry
[21:42]  * bac looks
[21:43] <benji> gary_poster: cool
[21:45] <gary_poster> bac, benji, is it alright to merge devel into ~yellow/launchpad/accordionoverlay/ every now and then?
[21:45] <bac> gary_poster: yes.  now is a very good time as i think everything that is implemented is working
[21:46] <benji> +1
[21:46] <gary_poster> ok cool, I'll do it now, and then again hopefully once this branch lands
[21:47] <bac> gary_poster:  after Ash Wednesday you should be in the habit of writing the new year.  s/2010/2011
[21:47] <gary_poster> lol
[21:47] <gary_poster> sorry
[21:48] <gary_poster> bac, benji, what should I do after a merge to make sure everything is OK?  start it up and go to the two respective pages and make sure they don't seem to fall over too obviously?
[21:49] <bac> gary_poster: that'll work.  you could also try registry/javascript/tests/test_structural_subscriptions.html
[21:49] <benji> yep
[21:49] <gary_poster> ok cool thanks
[21:49] <bac> remember you have to have launchpad.Edit ATM to see the link
[21:50] <bac> so mark@example.com:test for firefox project
[21:50] <gary_poster> right, thank you
[21:51] <gary_poster> huh
[21:52] <gary_poster> someone lost some important changes to lib/lp/bugs/model/structuralsubscription.py
[21:52] <gary_poster> won't start
[21:52] <bac> gary_poster: what does this ProxyFactory do?
[21:52] <bac> not sure i've encountered it before
[21:52] <bac> uh oh
[21:53] <gary_poster> bac, yeah, I want to advertise it as an alternate approach to utilities
[21:53] <gary_poster> It wraps the function in a proxy
[21:53] <gary_poster> which means that everything you get out of it is proxied
[21:53] <gary_poster> so if you have a function that anyone can call
[21:53] <gary_poster> but the results should be protected
[21:54] <gary_poster> then this is a simple pattern that does not require the overhead of our utilities
[21:54] <bac> so it is wrapped with the normal security proxy?
[21:54] <gary_poster> (nor does it require overloading our already method-heavy model objects)
[21:54] <gary_poster> exactly
[21:54] <bac> hmm, i'm confused as to what the old way would've looked like
[21:55] <bac> did it just happen automagically?
[21:55] <gary_poster> You would have had to put it on a proxied utility or on a model object
[21:55] <gary_poster> functions would not be safe
[21:55] <gary_poster> because their output would not be proxied
[21:56] <bac> ok, so none of the old school wiring has been done for this model class?
[21:56] <gary_poster> no, it has
[21:56] <gary_poster> if I understand you
[21:56] <gary_poster> I could move this to the model
[21:56] <gary_poster> and remove ProxyFactory
[21:56] <gary_poster> (and I will if you want)
[21:56] <gary_poster> and it would work fine
[21:57] <bac> ah, this is a function not a method
[21:57] <gary_poster> right
[21:57] <bac> that's the difference i was missing
[21:57] <gary_poster> but then I'd be adding a method to every bug target in the system
[21:57] <bac> no, this approach looks fine
[21:57] <gary_poster> gotcha
[21:57] <gary_poster> cool
[21:59] <gary_poster> I'm not sure what to do about the missing changes from devel in accordionoverlay
[22:00] <gary_poster> ...I could try to find the diff between accordionoverlay and devel and go through them one by one and try to figure out what should really be there...
[22:00] <gary_poster> which sounds annoying and error-prone
[22:00] <gary_poster> but I'm honestly not sure what else I can do
[22:00] <bac> OMG iPads on sale.  BRB
[22:00] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:00] <bac> gary_poster: do you think they were lost in my merge last night?
[22:01] <gary_poster> They were lost in some merge somewhere.  I could revert and try merging devel back in?
[22:01] <gary_poster> but then how do we get back to where we are now?
[22:02]  * gary_poster laughs out loud at "Look its the lovable non-pedantic me."
[22:02] <bac> what if you undid what you just merged
[22:02] <bac> merge in devel
[22:02] <gary_poster> but that's what I did
[22:02] <gary_poster> well
[22:02] <gary_poster> I pulled in devel
[22:02] <bac> and then merge in yellow-accordion paying special attention to that file
[22:02] <gary_poster> and I pulled in accordionoverlay
[22:02] <bac> same diff
[22:02] <bac> oh
[22:03] <bac> is a pull like a commit.  can you undo it?
[22:03] <gary_poster> not AFAIK
[22:03] <bac> does it show up in bzr log?
[22:03] <gary_poster> but I check out the branch at a revision
[22:03] <gary_poster> np
[22:03] <gary_poster> no
[22:03] <gary_poster> pull means that my branch is identical in all ways to the ~yellow branch
[22:04] <gary_poster> remind me what our importer sorter is again, pls?
[22:04] <bac> so you can undo the pull from yellow via revert or checkout
[22:04] <gary_poster> ok good idea
[22:04] <gary_poster> I'll give it a whirl
[22:04] <bac> format-imports
[22:05] <gary_poster> ack thank you
[22:05] <bac> but i'm concerned b/c our work in yellow is now bad
[22:05] <gary_poster> yeah, I'm not sure how things are starting for you guys
[22:05] <bac> i haven't run it
[22:05] <bac> just run test
[22:05] <bac> s
[22:06] <gary_poster> you don't need to run it to do that?
[22:06] <bac> no
[22:06] <bac> just load the html file in a browser
[22:06] <bac> it just exercises the JS
[22:07] <bac> anything that would've been pulled from the server has to be provided in LP.cache, etc
[22:07] <gary_poster> I don't really understand which html file it is, but I won't worry you with it.  I'll try to get this sorted out in the branch after I have gotten an ec2 land going with the branch reviewed (thank you, by the way)
[22:08] <bac> yes, my branch is broken too
[22:08] <gary_poster> ack
[22:10] <bac> gary_poster: what file do you think was affected?
[22:11] <gary_poster> lib/lp/bugs/model/structuralsubscription.py for one, at least
[22:12] <bac> gary_poster: this is what happened to that file during the merge i did
[22:12] <bac> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/579035
[22:13] <gary_poster> yeah, that's in reverse
[22:13] <gary_poster> (at least)
[22:14] <bac> reverse?
[22:14] <gary_poster> It should add get_structural_subscribers
[22:14] <bac> the paste seems to reflect the current state of the file, broken though it is
[22:14] <gary_poster> and remove get_structural_subscribers_for_bugtasks
[22:15] <gary_poster> and so on
[22:15] <bac> ugh
[22:25] <bac> gary_poster: i'm trying to revert to the pre-merge version of model/structural_subscribers.py and bugtask.py
[22:26] <gary_poster> bac, me too, but from the direction you suggested (reverting back to pre-problem-merge, merging devel, and then trying to reapply the non-problematic subsequent merges)
[22:26] <gary_poster> I think I missed something :-/
[22:27] <bac> i'm unclear how those changes got into the accordion branch in the first place
[22:27] <gary_poster> *or*, bac, "Merge from yellow.  Many conflicts.  Beware." is the merge that did the wrong thing
[22:27] <bac> yes
[22:27] <gary_poster> (not merge from devel)
[22:28] <gary_poster> so I think yellow was the problem, not anything you did
[22:28] <bac> well i guess i should've aborted when it looked funky
[22:28] <bac> but i think there was a lot of valid funky stuff that had to be dealt with eventually
[22:29] <gary_poster> benji, it looks possible that you merged devel into yellow in an odd way, though that might not be true either.  Does that ring any bells?
[22:30] <bac> gary_poster: my server is up and running
[22:30] <gary_poster> bac, yay
[22:30] <bac> gary_poster: why don't you stop what you're doing and undo the pull from yellow
[22:30] <gary_poster> undo the pull from yellow...I already did that by reverting?
[22:30] <bac> i can push this new version and hopefully there aren't other things lurking in there
[22:30] <bac> ok
[22:31] <gary_poster> bac, let me give you a test run to try first.  one sec
[22:31] <bac> ok
[22:31] <bac> gary_poster: i was just proposing you can put your branch back to the pre-yellow catastrophe and then merge in the newly 'fixed' yellow
[22:31] <bac> which i have not yet pushed
[22:32] <bac> gary_poster: alternatively you may want to grab a current copy of yellow and look at the diff from the bad merge and see if there are other red flags
[22:32] <gary_poster> proposed test: this is bigger than you really need--it takes my machine a minute or two--but it's a pretty decent smoke test of these things
[22:32] <gary_poster> ./bin/test -vvt test_structuralsubscription
[22:32] <gary_poster> (I'm afraid that the tests might be hosed too)
[22:33] <gary_poster> ok
[22:33] <bac> running
[22:33] <gary_poster> I'm trying what you are suggesting
[22:34] <gary_poster> (it took my vm 2 minutes 34.548)
[22:35] <bac> tests are running, fans are on high
[22:35] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:35] <bac> have you seen the chinese knock-off tablets have fans in them?  that is not what i want in a tablet...
[22:35] <gary_poster> heh, no
[22:36] <bac> my vm kicks your vm's ass
[22:36] <bac>  Ran 170 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in 1 minutes 4.242 seconds.
[22:36] <gary_poster> damn, sure does
[22:36] <bac> so, you think i should push this branch up to yellow?
[22:36] <gary_poster> is that parallels, or just a beefy computer?
[22:36] <gary_poster> yeah push away
[22:36] <bac> VMware
[22:36] <gary_poster> me too
[22:37] <gary_poster> what computer is it?
[22:37] <bac> oh, false alarm.  it wasn't finished
[22:37]  * gary_poster was hoping not to feel the need to upgrade till next macbook pro revision ;-/
[22:37] <gary_poster> ah yeah
[22:37] <gary_poster> Total: 240 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors in 2 minutes 34.548 seconds.
[22:39] <bac> Total: 236 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors in 4 minutes 42.599 seconds.
[22:39] <gary_poster> dang, bac, is there a way to tell bzr "no, I don't want you to revert, I want you to just go back to the way things were two revisions ago--just forget it all!"
[22:39] <bac> wow
[22:39] <gary_poster> (the four additional tests are the ones you just reviewed, I suspect)
[22:40] <bac> there must be
[22:40] <bac> so, damn, your machine is twice as fast as mine?
[22:40] <gary_poster> ...maybe?
[22:40] <gary_poster> it's pretty beefy, even for being 1.5 yrs old
[22:40] <bac> mine is about the same
[22:40] <bac> hmm
[22:41] <gary_poster> I've got 8G ram and ssd?
[22:42] <bac> gary_poster: pushed to bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~yellow/launchpad/accordionoverlay/
[22:42] <bac> i've got 4G, SSD and 2.53 GHz core 2 duo
[22:42] <bac> perhaps i'm starving my VM
[22:43] <gary_poster> I gave min e 2G
[22:43] <bac> ugh, mine only has 512
[22:43] <bac> i should up that to 1G
[22:43] <gary_poster> ah-ha!
[22:43] <gary_poster> yeah, at least, maybe 1.5
[22:43] <gary_poster> 2 is probably overkill
[22:43] <bac> i only have the four
[22:44] <gary_poster> sure
[22:44] <bac> anyway, i'm going to step away from the computer now
[22:44] <gary_poster> sounds good me too :-)
[22:44] <gary_poster> have a great weekend
[22:44] <bac> have a good weekend