[12:37] <rhce7321> I have got my ist thin client up to a boot prompt,   But I get the message :
[12:37] <rhce7321> "This workstation isn't authorized to connect to server"
[12:38] <rhce7321> I'm updatein ssh-keys & image in attempt to fix.
[12:41] <rhce7321> Woo-hoo!!
[12:41] <rhce7321> got my 1st client desktop.
[12:43] <ogra> congrats :)
[16:21] <LaserJock> morning all
[16:50] <sbalneav> Morning LaserJock
[16:51] <LaserJock> why, it's my favorite Canadian!
[16:52] <sbalneav> So, when do you want to do a triage day?  Maybe Next week sometime? I can take a work-at-home day.
[16:54] <LaserJock> sbalneav: whenever you're available dude
[16:54] <LaserJock> the sooner the better
[16:54] <sbalneav> Why don't we tentatively say next wed.
[16:54] <LaserJock> ok, that sounds lovely
[16:55] <LaserJock> today I think I should have the meta packages worked out
[16:55] <LaserJock> so we're making some progress towards Intrepid
[16:55] <LaserJock> Caroline has been doing some wicked triaging :-)
[16:56] <LaserJock> right now we have ~ 220 open bugs
[16:56] <LaserJock> I think we need to get through them all before Intrepid is out
[16:57] <LaserJock> I've seen a number of really old or misfiled ones
[18:41] <Goosemoose> My auto install using preseed.cfg is stopping and asking for kerberos servers
[18:41] <Goosemoose> I don't see what command should be answering that questions, any ideas?
[18:42] <sbalneav> Hmm, not sure, I've never done a preseed.
[18:42] <sbalneav> This on Hardy>
[18:42] <sbalneav> ?
[18:42] <Goosemoose> yes
[18:43] <Goosemoose> I didn't have this issue with feisty
[18:49] <sbalneav> Hmm.  Not sure.
[18:49] <sbalneav> ogra's not around at the moment, he'd be the one to ask, likely
[18:58] <Goosemoose> ok
[18:58] <Goosemoose> i cant find anything on it online either
[22:15] <Goosemoose> hmm, my preseed has : tasksel tasksel/first multiselect edubuntu-desktop but when them machine booted just came to the terminal
[22:15] <Goosemoose> why didnt it start with the desktop?
[22:18] <Eghie> Goosemoose: I think you should also select a desktop with taskel
[22:19] <Eghie> ltsp-build-client also works without a desktop
[22:19] <Goosemoose> hmm
[22:20] <Goosemoose> so edubuntu-desktop, standard ?
[22:21] <Eghie> you could do that yes
[22:21] <Eghie> but you can also choose xubuntu-desktop or just ubuntu-desktop
[22:22] <Eghie> ltsp is building a client which can be loaded via PXE (network) and it connects to X of the server
[22:22] <Eghie> then you can choose which desktop you want to run
[22:22] <Goosemoose> im not running ltsp
[22:22] <Goosemoose> they are getting an actual install on the hard drive
[22:23] <Eghie> ah, sorry, I've read it wrong i guess
[22:23] <Goosemoose> no problem , answer minght be the same
[22:23] <Eghie> edubuntu-desktop should indeed install a full desktop
[22:23] <Eghie> and also boot up in X
[22:24] <Goosemoose> ok
[22:24] <Eghie> it could be a advantage above ubuntu-desktop, because they both use gnome
[22:24] <Eghie> if that's so, you also should install ubuntu-desktop
[22:28] <Goosemoose> ok
[22:28] <Goosemoose> how do i set which loads then?
[22:29] <Eghie> they both run on Gnome, so that shouldn't matter
[22:29] <Goosemoose> ok
[22:29] <Goosemoose> do you have any idea why this would give me an error:
[22:29] <Goosemoose> d-i preseed/late_command string wget http://<IP_ADDRESS>/post_install_tasks && chmod +x ./post_install_tasks && ./post_install_tasks
[22:29] <Eghie> but you can set the edubuntu theme if you want on ubuntu-desktop, if it's not already showing up
[22:30] <Goosemoose> the file is publicly accessible
[22:30] <Eghie> what error?
[22:30] <Goosemoose> but im getting a error 127
[22:30] <Eghie> ah
[22:30] <Goosemoose> failed with exit code 127
[22:30] <Goosemoose> the file just joins the domain
[22:31] <Eghie> is it wget which returns 127 or the post_install_tasks?
[22:31] <Goosemoose> i cant tell
[22:31] <Eghie> you could try to leave the executing of post_install_taks of
[22:32] <Eghie> off
[22:32] <Eghie> and then see if it still gives the error
[22:32] <Goosemoose> ok, just to see if wget works
[22:32] <Goosemoose> ok, just asec
[22:32] <Eghie> ok
[22:36] <Eghie> Goosemoose: what about the command: eval `wget -q http://<IP_ADDRESS>/post_install_tasks -O-`
[22:37] <Goosemoose> what does that change?
[22:37] <Eghie> the same as you try to achieve
[22:37] <Eghie> but in 1 command
[22:37] <Goosemoose> lol, gotcha
[22:37] <Goosemoose> ahh isee
[22:37] <Goosemoose> so that gets rid of the chmod statement?
[22:37] <Eghie> although eval must exists when you run it
[22:37] <Eghie> yes
[22:37] <Goosemoose> i've never seen -0-
[22:38] <Eghie> it says, -O- = output to STDOUT
[22:38] <Eghie> so output as normal text
[22:38] <Eghie> and eval will execute that text
[22:39] <Goosemoose> gotcha
[22:39] <Goosemoose> ill see how the normal wget works in a minute, its almost there
[22:39] <Eghie> ok
[22:39] <Eghie> ah man, I don't like using gnome-watchdog :S
[22:40] <Goosemoose> I have it down to just asking one questions during preseed which is about overwriting an exist partition
[22:40] <Eghie> ok
[22:40] <Goosemoose> but it set it to say yes in the preseed.cfg
[22:40] <Goosemoose> so im not sure why
[22:40] <Goosemoose> i had to figure out a bunch of kerberos stuff earlier that i dont remember doing in feisty
[22:41] <Eghie> it depends if you want to use kerberos or not
[22:41] <Goosemoose> ahh it must be asking because i installed likewise-open as a package
[22:41] <Eghie> if you are using an active directory domain, well kerberos would by handy
[22:41] <Eghie> ah
[22:41] <Goosemoose> yeah
[22:41] <Goosemoose> thats why it added it in there
[22:41] <Goosemoose> it took awhile as i haven't figured out how to discern the correct commands for each screen yet
[22:41] <Eghie> kerberos is a bit difficult, but really nice
[22:42] <Goosemoose> likewise is nice
[22:42] <Goosemoose> i had AD working with kerberos before with a manual job
[22:42] <Goosemoose> took like 45 minutes to do
[22:42] <Goosemoose> likewise joins in seconds
[22:42] <Goosemoose> install and go
[22:42] <Eghie> hehe, that's correct
[22:42] <Eghie> they are doing a great job
[22:42] <Goosemoose> i love it
[22:42] <Goosemoose> if i can just get it working during preseed ill be set
[22:42] <Goosemoose> i did see it was installed last go
[22:42] <Eghie> I hope it will work at the same speed on a Samba 4 server
[22:42] <Goosemoose> just need the script to execute to join automatically
[22:43] <Goosemoose> im sure it will
[23:06] <Lns> Did I miss the meeting?
[23:08] <Lns> I see nothing on the fridge regarding it, though the link in topic is valid..
[23:11] <HedgeMage> Lns:  if there is a meeting, it will likely be in #ubuntu-meeting
[23:12] <Lns> HedgeMage: thanks.
[23:12] <HedgeMage> np :)
[23:12] <Lns> I sure did miss a hot thread on edubuntu-users the past couple days!
[23:16] <LaserJock> Lns: *next* Wednesday
[23:16] <Lns> LaserJock: oh
[23:16] <Lns> damn.. i was hoping to have every single bug fixed by today. :p
[23:25] <LaserJock> heh
[23:25] <LaserJock> good luck with that
[23:26] <Lns> I have an idea
[23:27] <Lns> although a bad thing to ask here... it seems as though there are so many issues going on here, and so many people voicing their issues on the mailing list, it seems impossible to track them all and see HOW many people are having specific issues.
[23:27] <Lns> I think LTSP needs its own tracker for LP bugs...
[23:28] <Lns> maybe just a static page that lists LTSP, Edubuntu specific things (related and non-related directly to LTSP packages, such as issues with Gnome and it's LTSP integration)
[23:34] <LaserJock> Lns: well, we do have a bug tracker, it's called Launchpad :-)
[23:34] <Lns> LaserJock: i know :)
[23:34] <LaserJock> if a bug is LTSP specific it should be filed against ltsp
[23:34] <Lns> right
[23:34] <LaserJock> if it's not LTSP specific we need to find the right package to file against
[23:34] <Lns> but most bugs people encounter aren't ltsp specific
[23:35] <LaserJock> right!
[23:35] <Lns> though they are happening because of the thin-client env
[23:35] <Lns> it's at that point, imho, people stop trying to help
[23:35] <LaserJock> so that's why we need to get some people to help triage these things so they can find proper homes
[23:35] <Lns> because they came to where they thought they should
[23:35] <Lns> mmk
[23:35] <Lns> i'm not very familiar with triaging
[23:35] <Lns> maybe that's what i'm missing
[23:36] <LaserJock> well, I think that's a very general problem around Edubuntu
[23:36] <LaserJock> we don't generate a ton of bugs so we're not very familiar with bug processes
[23:36] <Lns> true
[23:36] <LaserJock> but I think if we were generating more bug reports and doing more triaging, things would start to flow better
[23:36] <Lns> i agree
[23:37] <LaserJock> instead of sending complaints to mailing list threads that will be forgotten next week :-)
[23:37] <Lns> mmk..i'll do some reading on triaging bugs...maybe the best place is to look in LP for ltsp specific bugs and start churning through everything
[23:37] <Lns> LaserJock: exactly
[23:37] <Lns> which, unfortunately, usually contains the data necessary to troubleshoot effectively
[23:37] <Lns> (along with all the harsh commentary)
[23:38] <LaserJock> I've been thinking a little about how to help people do better with bugs in Edubuntu
[23:39] <LaserJock> Ubuntu runs (and just did one) the Ubuntu Developer Week every so often
[23:39] <LaserJock> I wonder if we could do something sort of smaller scale for Edubuntu
[23:39] <LaserJock> the main problem I've seen is that most edu people don't like IRC
[23:39] <LaserJock> which makes running tutorials or help sessions very difficult
[23:40] <Lns> that's what i see is a larger issue as well - too many facilities
[23:40] <Lns> people aren't dumb, but fragmented information gets nowhere fast
[23:41] <LaserJock> well, it isn't so much fragmented, IMO
[23:41] <LaserJock> but Edubuntu people don't seem to "plug in" to Ubuntu resources very well, from what I've seen
[23:42] <Lns> i agree, and i'm one of them
[23:42] <LaserJock> which I suppose comes from it being sort of a niche area
[23:42] <LaserJock> if I could just get everybody on IRC for *1* hour we'd be on a roll
[23:42] <johnny> how about web based..
[23:42] <johnny> so they don't have to setup a client
[23:42] <johnny> just go to a web page
[23:43] <Lns> johnny: that's exactly what i was thinking
[23:43] <LaserJock> well, that requires a lot
[23:43] <johnny> a lot of what?
[23:43] <LaserJock> time, resources
[23:43] <johnny> huh?
[23:43] <Lns> i'll help
[23:43] <johnny> to set it up
[23:43] <johnny> not really
[23:43] <LaserJock> not set up
[23:43] <Lns> web-based irc client?
[23:43] <LaserJock> oh wait
[23:43] <Lns> 2 birds/1 stone.. heh
[23:44] <LaserJock> johnny: did you mean a web-based IRC client?
[23:44] <johnny> yes
[23:44] <LaserJock> I was thinking you meant replacing IRC with web-based learning
[23:44] <Lns> we don't need another facility :p
[23:44] <LaserJock> well, there are web-based clients around aren't there?
[23:45] <LaserJock> is it port blocking that's the issue?
[23:45] <Lns> it would be so cool to have a central - *buntu thin-client environment - facility that links to everything
[23:45] <Lns> including web-based EVERYTHING..irc, list archive, etc
[23:45] <LaserJock> Pidgin is installed by default and is fairly easy to set up for IRC (even though it's not the best client)
[23:47] <LaserJock> I've been thinking of writing a "Contributing to Edubuntu" guide to stick on edubuntu.org
[23:47] <LaserJock> just to get people on to the right resources around Ubuntu and familiar with how things work
[23:48] <LaserJock> a bit of a problem is I'm not entirely sure what people need, I've been doing this too long :-)
[23:48] <Lns> you know what i think might be better...and i'll do it if people think it's a good idea
[23:48] <Lns> if we're talking about trying to centralize information and communications
[23:49] <Lns> is create a completely new domain that covers Edubuntu, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, others such as RH/Fedora/Mandrake/whatever, in thin-client environments
[23:50] <LaserJock> something like ltsp.org ? :-)
[23:50] <Lns> lol
[23:50] <johnny> just trying to remove more barriers
[23:50] <johnny> well.. i think ltsp.org needs a web admin
[23:50] <Lns> johnny: i couldn't agree more
[23:50] <johnny> it doesn't really have anybody that takes care of it
[23:50] <Lns> that site is ancient
[23:50] <Lns> it *is* the perfect domain name though
[23:50] <johnny> anyways.. i have to run and i'll be back in a few
[23:50] <Lns> thx johnny
[23:52] <Lns> there isn't much software that is so boundary-less like ltsp is
[23:52] <Lns> cross-distro, cross-package, cross-community
[23:52] <LaserJock> right
[23:52] <LaserJock> well, there clearly is a need for LTSP to document itself
[23:52] <LaserJock> and sbalneav has done a lot of that in the past
[23:53] <Lns> but where to put the awesome documentation?
[23:53] <Lns> so people can find it easily
[23:53] <LaserJock> well, we *did* put it right on their computers
[23:53] <Lns> which seems sensible
[23:53] <LaserJock> but we didn't have enough "hands" to get it updated for Hardy so it was not shipped
[23:53] <Lns> but doesn't cover irc, list communications, current issues
[23:54] <LaserJock> no
[23:54] <Lns> brb


[05:07] <buscado> k /j #irccloud
[16:00] <studio-user356> Hello?
[21:58] <BionicMac> This should be in the topic here -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook
[21:58] <BionicMac> Nice book.
[21:58] <BionicMac> Oh nice, it basically is with the link -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio


[00:08] <TomJaeger> is there a bug #?
[00:09] <Keybuk> not sure :p
[00:09] <Keybuk> I don'
[00:09] <Keybuk> I don't track things using LP
[00:11] <TomJaeger> but usplash is the plan for fixing the issue at hand?
[00:12] <Keybuk> no idea
[00:12] <Keybuk> don't have a plan yet
[00:17] <TomJaeger> there's also the issue that if X is started while cryptsetup is asking for a password, it'll activate its own virtual terminal.
[00:18] <Keybuk> yes, that's fine
[00:18] <Keybuk> cryptsetup is asking with usplash on vt8
[00:19] <Keybuk> X starts on vt7
[00:20] <TomJaeger> won't X switch to vt7?
[00:20] <Keybuk> yes
[00:21] <TomJaeger> how is this not a problem?
[00:23] <Keybuk> it is
[00:23] <Keybuk> do you have a solution?
[00:23] <TomJaeger> no
[00:25] <Keybuk> me neither ;)
[00:27] <TomJaeger> okay then, thanks for your input, I'll go ahead and post the relevant parts of the conversation on the bug tracker, so that everybody is on the same page.
[00:57] <ion> keybuk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ion/ubuntu/karmic/mountall/fsck-locking/revision/109
[00:59] <Keybuk> ion: that looks a bit hairy :-/
[01:00] <ion> keybuk: Please elaborate.
[01:02] <Keybuk> as in that's O M G that's a large patch
[01:02] <Keybuk> I'm scared to apply that without a massive amount of testing
[01:07] <ion> The deletions basically rip out the queuing, so that checks are started in parallel again, and the additions basically keep a list of active checks sorted by priority and call setpriority and ioprio_set, which are allowed to fail.
[01:10] <Keybuk> right, that's what I'm worried about ;)
[01:49] <sadmac2> ion: did you have an ioprio_set from glibc? last time I used it it was a manual syscall(__NR_ioprio_set)
[01:49] <ion> I used syscall()
[01:50] <sadmac2> ion: yeah. someone should send patches for that.
[13:11] <ion> keybuk: How about putting the patch to ~ubuntu-boot PPA and trying to get a lot of people to test it? :-P
[17:15] <katre> I'm having some trouble trying to grab the upstart source (to track down a bug in upstart on sparc)
[17:15] <katre> Anyone mind helping me figure what's up?
[17:19] <Keybuk> how are you trying to grab it?
[17:19] <katre> so I have a machine (also sparc) running Jaunty
[17:20] <katre> I installed bzr, which grabbed version "Bazaar (bzr) 1.13.1"
[17:20] <katre> I then ran "bzr get https://code.launchpad.net/upstart/trunk"
[17:20] <katre> and got an error: bzr: ERROR: Unknown repository format: 'Bazaar repository format 2a (needs bzr 1.16 or later)\n'
[17:20] <Keybuk> you almost certainly need bzr 2.0
[17:20] <Keybuk> there you go then
[17:20] <katre> okay, is that installable on jaunty?
[17:20] <Keybuk> yes
[17:20] <Keybuk> http://bazaar-vcs.org/
[17:20] <katre> how would I do that?
[17:21] <katre> is that installable on jaunty from a package?
[17:21] <Keybuk> the documentation is on the bazaar website
[17:21] <Keybuk> it is, yes
[17:21] <katre> because, let me be frank, if I cannot use the current release of ubuntu to do ubuntu development, that is amazingly limited
[17:23] <Keybuk> for Upstart, my rule tends to be that it should compile and build on the current stable release
[17:23] <Keybuk> but you might need the current *development* release to run it
[17:23] <Keybuk> since the next stable release actually uses upstart much more fully than before, that's going to be increasingly true
[17:23] <katre> yeah, I can't install the development release, because of this sparc bug I'm looking into
[17:24] <Keybuk> *nods*
[17:24] <Keybuk> bzr is a bit of a special case sadly
[17:24] <Keybuk> the bzr devs have pushed 2.0 quite strongly
[17:24] <Keybuk> and there are lots of strange issues when interoperating
[17:24] <katre> so, anyway, I don't see a package for bzr 2.0. where do I grab it?
[17:24] <Keybuk> not to mention LP has already been upgrade to 2.0
[17:24] <katre> yeah
[17:25] <Keybuk> katre: if you're on sparc, you may have to grab the source from the PPA and build it youself
[17:25] <Keybuk> https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa certainly has the 2.0 source package
[17:29] <ion> keybuk: So... What to do with the fsck priority patch? Do you see a way to make it considerably smaller or to get enough testing, or should i just forget about it? :-P How about putting a it to the ubuntu-boot PPA for testing?
[17:29] <katre> thanks
[17:30] <Keybuk> ion: I just don't see myself being able to convince the release manager to let me ship that the day before we freeze
[17:30] <Keybuk> especially since, right now, it looks like we've fixed all the bugs
[17:31] <Keybuk> we literally freeze tomorrow, from then on it's all about getting a set of cd images that work
[17:31] <Keybuk> introducing changes like that ... difficult to sell
[17:31] <ion> Alright
[17:31] <Keybuk> but I'll certainly merge it straight into lynx ;)
[17:31] <ion> Yeah
[17:43] <katre> Geez, bzr wants to install 61 packages as build dependencies?
[17:43] <katre> including x windows fonts, I see
[17:45] <katre> probably due to wanting graphviz, I guess
[18:23] <katre> Okay, so now I have a working bzr, I can grab the upstart trunk and the libnih trunk.
[18:24] <katre> How do I build those? Neither the README nor the HACKING files actually answers that
[18:24] <katre> the README refers to an INSTALL file that does not exist
[18:26] <katre> I tried running 'autoconf' in each, and it rana  bit and then errored out
[18:26] <katre> (I can provide the error message if that helps)
[18:37] <katre> actually, I misspoke. autoconf runs fine, then ./configure runs a bit and finally gives "configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in "." "./.." "./../..""
[18:40] <sadmac> katre: you configure libnih first. Then you go into the upstart folder and do ../relative/path/to/libnih/nihify and then you configure upstart.
[18:40] <sadmac> see if that helps
[18:41] <katre> sadmac: Thanks. I get the same error for libnih
[18:41] <sadmac> katre: then its a system thing. what platform is this that you had to compile your own bzr?
[18:41] <katre> Looks like my problems are firstly that libtool isn't installed and didn't get pulled in as part of build-dep
[18:42] <sadmac> oh. that'll do ya
[18:42] <katre> and secondly that I've never used autoconf before and there's no documentation of the exact commands to run to get from a fresh source tree to something compilable
[18:42] <katre> sadmac: I'm on sparc
[18:42] <sadmac> katre: what distro?
[18:42] <katre> ubuntu server, jaunty
[18:43] <sadmac> katre: autoreconf -i
[18:43] <katre> thanks
[18:44] <katre> autoreconf wants cvs? okay, let's install that
[18:45] <sadmac> wat
[18:46] <katre> it gave an error that cvs wasn't found. I installed it and now it's running
[18:46] <katre> between that and bzr pulling in all of X I've installed a heck of a lot of stuff just to build upstart
[18:53] <katre> I feel like I'm getting closer
[18:53] <katre> autoreconf looks like it worked fine, but when I run configure it ends with this error
[18:53] <katre> | /configure: line 20354: PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG: command not found
[18:53] <katre> | ./configure: line 20367: syntax error near unexpected token `0.22'
[18:54] <katre> | ./configure: line 20367: `PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG(0.22)'
[18:55] <katre> I did run aclocal before I ran autoreconf
[18:57] <katre> Ah, google suggests an unresolved dependency on pkg-config
[18:57] <katre> let's try it...
[18:58] <katre> nope
[19:00] <sadmac> katre: sounds like a missing macro... Scott's really better with this stuff...
[19:03] <katre> yeah, I had to re-run aclocal and autoreconf
[19:03] <katre> and now it dies complaining it needs a newer dbus
[19:03] <katre> I give up
[19:03]  * sadmac thought autoreconf -i did the aclocal thing
[19:03] <katre> if I can't actually build upstart in the currently released ubuntu distro, I can't do it
[19:03] <sadmac> ubuntu doesn't ship the newer dbus either?
[19:03] <sadmac> hmm
[19:03] <katre> maybe it does, I'm deep into cargo cult compiling right now
[19:03] <sadmac> Fedora didn't, but I'dve thought ubuntu did
[19:04] <katre> | checking for DBUS... configure: error: Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.2.16) were not met
[19:04] <katre> | apt-cache policy dbus: Candidate: 1.2.12-0ubuntu2.1
[19:04] <sadmac> katre: upstart uses a lot of dbus that other applications never have. A result has been that we found problems with dbus that nothing else ever stumbled on. That dbus release has the resulting pile of fixes
[19:05] <katre> Sure
[19:05] <katre> I don't doubt there's a good reason
[19:05] <katre> I just know that I've been banging at this for a bit and determined that there's no easy way to get into mupstart development
[19:06] <sadmac> katre: what version of upstart do you have on the system now?
[19:06] <katre> and since no one else seems particularly worried that the next version of upstart crashes on sparc, it'll stay until someone else tries to fix it
[19:06] <katre> apt-cache policy says 0.3.9-8
[19:06] <katre> this all started when I tried upgrading my sparc system to karmic, and the new upstart crashed in the install
[19:07] <katre> so I will either keep these servers at jaunty or find a new distro that actually supports sparc (I am aware that sparc is not officially supported by ubuntu but it's been fine til now)
[19:08] <sadmac> katre: how did you end up building upstart because karmic crashed?
[19:08] <sadmac> katre: fedora's sparc support is semi-official. that's a bit of an improvement...
[19:09] <katre> I grabbed the upstart source from bazaar, thinking if I can at least build it I could try and run down the problem
[19:10] <katre> but apparently I can't build upstart on jaunty without installing, so far, about 70 packages and building bazaar from source
[19:10] <sadmac> katre: wait, how did the new upstart crash the install?
[19:10] <katre> I could try grabbing dbus-1 and building that too, but frankly I give up, this is too frustrating
[19:10] <katre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/436758
[19:11] <katre> I was trying to get to the point where I can run 'make check' and see if I can duplicate the failure mentioned here
[19:12] <katre> (I did grab the source for the 0.3.9 version in jaunty and it passes all checks, as expected)
[19:15] <sadmac> katre: you could disable the dbus check in the makefile. you'll get piles of errors in make check though (since it'll trip over all those bugs that were fixed)
[19:16] <katre> yeah
[19:17] <sadmac> katre: you could also try a scratch-install of karmic on a vm.
[19:17] <sadmac> katre: or you could mount a drive from a karmic live cd (if they make such things for sparc)
[19:18] <katre> they don't
[19:23] <sadmac> katre: I'd find whoever told Scott that make check failed and have him reproduce it wherever he reproduced it
[19:25] <katre> yeah
[19:26] <katre> Thanks very much for the help
[19:27] <sadmac> np
[19:31] <ion> Misc. rambling: instead of a ‘startup’ event, 0.10 should have a ‘system’ state. Instead of ‘start on startup’, jobs would have ‘while system’. Shutdown/reboot would happen by running ‘stop system ACTION=reboot’; all ‘while system’ jobs would stop and there would be a halt.conf job that looks something like ‘around system’, ‘post-stop exec if [ "$SHUTDOWN_ACTION" = reboot ]; then reboot -f; else halt -f; fi’.
[19:31] <sadmac> ion: there's neither. to start on startup you just don't put any while or on stanzas
[19:32] <sadmac> ion: a job with no on stanzas starts a soon as its conditions are met.
[19:32] <ion> How about if you only want to start a job manually?
[19:32] <sadmac> ion: you set the job in manual mode via a separate configuration file.
[19:33] <ion> A ‘system’ state would be an elegant solution for halting IMO. :-P
[19:35] <sadmac> ion: maybe
[19:36] <sadmac> ion: its actually a nice addition to the current mechanism. All your crash-only jobs that don't need to be killed before cutting the power can just omit the while system stanza
[19:36] <sadmac> ion: so "while system" is how a job indicates its sensitive to sudden power evaporation
[19:38] <ion> True, true
[19:39] <ion> How to tell the halt job whether to halt or reboot? I’m not sure whether environment from the ‘stop system’ command should be available to halt.conf’s post-stop script.
[19:40] <sadmac> ion: it would be as of now
[19:40] <ion> Oh? Alright :-)
[19:40] <sadmac> ion: it would /not/ be in 0.3. We fixed this.
[19:49] <ion> In fact, Upstart wouldn’t really need to treat the system state in a special way, there could simply be an empty /etc/init/system.conf that comes with the package. People would just be told to point to that for anything that requires some action before halting the system.
[19:55] <sadmac> ion: maybe. There could be advantages to internalizing it too, since it starts so friggin early
[19:55] <sadmac> ion: an idea: suppose upstart ran from initrd
[19:56] <sadmac> ion: system pre-start becomes the core script of dracut as it is now. when system itself starts, upstart re-execs on the new root.
[19:59] <ion> Yeah
[21:41] <ion> keybuk: A summary of what we discussed above: a ‘system’ state in 0.10 could provide an elegant way to handle shutdown. Any job that requires some action just before halt/reboot would do ‘while system’ and possibly have a pre/post-stop script, whereas on-startup jobs that don’t mind the computer suddenly disappearing would not have any while/on stanzas. To reboot, one could run ‘stop system SHUTDOWN_ACTION=reboot’; halt.conf could contain something ...
[21:41] <ion> ... like ‘around system’, ‘post-stop exec if [ "$SHUTDOWN_ACTION" = reboot ]; then reboot -f; else halt -f; fi’. In fact, Upstart wouldn’t necessarily need to handle the ‘system’ state in any special way, a standard /etc/init/system.conf with no contents would suffice, but an implicit job would be nicer IMHO. sadmac pointed out that Dracut’s core script could be a pre-start script for the system job if Upstart is started from initramfs.
[21:42] <Keybuk> how would you deal with unmounting the root filesystem?
[21:42] <Keybuk> which needs all processes killed?
[21:43] <Keybuk> can you mail the log to the ML so I can digest? :p
[21:43] <ion> I’m probably missing something, but couldn’t one do a lazy unmount?
[21:43] <Keybuk> if events had before/after periods and you had priorities that could really work
[21:44] <Keybuk> ion: no, you can't lazy remount <g>
[21:53] <sadmac> Keybuk: this is just before shutdown?
[21:56] <Keybuk> yes
[22:07] <ion> The filesystem state could have ‘while system and stuff’ and anything that needs to close files would have ‘while filesystem’. stop system → anything depending on filesystem would stop, the filesystem job would stop (handle unmounts etc. here), the system job would stop, the halt job would stop (and shutdown the system).
[22:14] <ion> keybuk: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/upstart-devel/2009-October/001097.html
[22:15] <Keybuk> after system
[22:15] <Keybuk> mount -o ro,remount /
[22:15] <Keybuk> reboot -f
[22:15] <Keybuk> type thing?
[22:16] <ion> That could actually be just in system.conf’s post-stop script, no real need to have another job just for that.
[22:18] <Keybuk> good point
[22:21] <ion> I’d probably like Upstart to internally initialize a ‘system’ job with an empty job with no while/on conditions (so that it simply starts immediately), but anything in system.conf would extend that (e.g. the post-stop script to shutdown the box).
[22:22] <ion> If system.conf is missing for any reason, any jobs with ‘while system’ would still start.
[22:23] <Keybuk> not a bad idea
[23:39] <Keybuk> ion: that fits a pattern I've been thinking about
[23:40] <Keybuk> have init parse its arguments, and each "word" is the name of a job that will be started
[23:40] <Keybuk> if a config exists, it's started with the config
[23:40] <Keybuk> otherwise it's just started with no config
[23:40] <Keybuk> ie. you'd end up with system states for "quiet", "splash", "emergency", "single", etc.
[23:40] <ion> Good idea
[23:41] <Keybuk> we could just build in system like that


[08:36] <farooghkz> سلام ایرج.
[08:36] <iraj> farooghkz, salam
[08:36] <mike90> hi all :D
[08:37] <iraj> mike90, hi dude
[08:38] <farooghkz> hi mike
[08:40] <farooghkz> mike90, u didnt play any werewolf game :-)
[08:41] <mike90> yeah, these days im really busy :D
[08:42] <mike90> im doin some stuffs for libc project and bugzilla (those are very very diff. and this kills my energy ;D)
[08:42] <farooghkz> u didnt understand.u didnt play any game.
[08:43] <farooghkz> np
[08:43] <farooghkz> :-)
[08:43] <mike90> i got it mate :D, you're telling me why i didnt paly game :), and i told you reason :D
[08:44] <farooghkz> ok
[08:45] <farooghkz> what does libc do?
[08:45] <mike90> libc is c standard primary library :D
[08:46] <farooghkz> stdio,stdlib,etc?
[08:46] <mike90> when u re using FILE struct or are using printf, you're actually using libc :D
[08:46] <mike90> " stdio,stdlib,etc?" <----- not just these :D
[08:47] <mike90> but these are parts of libc :)
[08:47] <farooghkz> ok.i understand
[08:49] <farooghkz> mike,how do i make u sad? just4 test :-D
[08:50] <farooghkz> because u sayed u cant do dis
[08:52] <farooghkz> i think i made u sad with dis wrong question
[08:53] <mike90> dont even think of this impossible stuff :D
[08:55] <farooghkz> i couldnt?
[08:55] <mike90> you cant ;D
[08:56] <farooghkz> anyway?
[08:56] <farooghkz> no way?
[09:01] <farooghkz> untill now i played 246 werewolf game!
[09:01] <mike90> WOW @.@
[09:01] <mike90> q(@.@)p
[09:02] <farooghkz> and im newbie!
[09:03] <farooghkz> some players played about 2000 or 3000 games!
[09:04] <farooghkz> for example rotta666 played 4500games
[09:05] <farooghkz> gl mike because working on libc :-)
[09:15] <mike90> gl as in good luck :D
[09:15] <mike90> tnx
[09:16] <farooghkz> because i use python and python needs c
[09:17] <farooghkz> سعید.آدرس وبلاگت؟
[10:10] <farooghkz> جلسه  چ زمانیه؟
[10:10] <farooghkz> irc
[10:28] <farooghkz> آی آر سی خیلی با حاله.با هر دستگاهی ک ب اینترنت وصل میشه میتونید بیاید آی آر سی! :-)
[10:36] <farooghkz> کافیه دستگاهتون بتونه ب اینترنت وصل شه!
[10:36] <farooghkz> کسی با تلویزیون اومده آی آر سی؟
[10:54] <farooghkz> ##werewolf
[10:56] <farooghkz> چرا کسانی ک اینجا هستند همه ساکت اند؟
[11:14] <farooghkz> python-ir
[11:46] <saeed> سلام
[14:15] <farooghkz> openshells
[14:16] <mike90> faroogh: did you watch "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYodWEKCuGg" ?
[14:17] <farooghkz> no because we(iranians) cant c youtube
[14:18] <farooghkz> whats that?
[14:26] <mike90> Code Monkey :D, a famous song by Jonathan Coulton and a video mixed with that :D
[14:27] <farooghkz> code monkey?is that song about programming and developing?
[14:36] <mike90> codeMonkey in our local slang means a programmer (usually works for a company)
[14:37] <mike90> this song is about everyday life and wishes of a code monkey :D
[14:39] <farooghkz> a code monkey?
[14:39] <mike90> ??
[14:40] <farooghkz> whats/whos a code monkey
[14:42] <mike90>  in our local slang means a programmer (usually works for a company)
[14:43] <farooghkz> is that song in english?
[17:10] <mike90> faroogh: yes that's english :D
[17:10] <mike90> but very very simple lyrics :D
[17:11] <farooghkz> and its size?
[17:11] <mike90> no idea, lemme check :D
[17:11] <farooghkz> can u email it 2 me?
[17:11] <mike90> about 8mb
[17:12] <mike90> so lemme download it :D (dirty work i think ;D)
[17:13] <farooghkz> im not sure that i can download it.where is it?
[17:16] <mike90> hello :)
[17:16] <mike90> i posted download link formerly :D
[17:16] <mike90> *download --> video
[17:16] <farooghkz> from utube?
[17:17] <mike90> yes there are some web services to download videos from youtube :D
[17:17] <mike90> im not sure whether is it legal or not :D
[17:17] <alimj> Good evening
[17:18] <alimj> It is also possible to download Youtube videos with youtube-dl
[17:18]  * mike90 has no idea :)
[17:18] <alimj> It is usually included in standard repositories
[17:18] <farooghkz> apt install youtube?
[17:19] <alimj> sudo apt-get install youtube-dl;youtube-dl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYodWEKCuGg
[17:19] <farooghkz> *youtube-dl
[17:19] <mike90> alimj: saw that :D
[17:19] <alimj> It would be possible to download lower qualities (or only Audio)
[17:19] <mike90> ?
[17:19] <alimj> Please refer to the manual for further information
[17:20] <alimj> You should have VPN or HTTP_PROXY (if youtube is censored)
[17:20] <mike90> alimj: saw codemonkey video yourself ?
[17:20] <alimj> mike90: I just wanted to provide an example
[17:20] <alimj> mike90: Yes. We are all code monkeys ;-)
[17:20] <mike90> see it, i can only suggest you see it :D
[17:20] <mike90> great reAction on its boss :D
[17:21] <alimj> I have contributed "just one line" to youtube-dl source on Github :-P
[17:21] <mike90> congrats :)
[17:22] <alimj> But I have a custom Python script which uses youtube-dl libraries. It is approximately 100 lines long
[17:22] <farooghkz> ok
[17:22] <alimj> Essentially I learnt Python since I wanted to use youtube-dl
[17:23] <alimj> farooghkz: If you do not have VPN, you could use tor and torrify (or polipo)
[17:24] <farooghkz> ok.i will try
[17:25] <farooghkz> did u know? i have no computer now.
[17:26] <alimj> No. I did not know. :-(
[17:26] <mike90> you have :), theorically
[17:26] <alimj> Are you using a tablet?
[17:26] <farooghkz> *desktop computer
[17:27] <alimj> So why you do not have a computer (if you have a Desktop)?
[17:28] <farooghkarimiz> be back in 2min
[17:31] <farooghkz> i have no tablet
[17:31] <farooghkz> did u c my client?
[17:34] <alimj> farooghkz: No?
[17:34] <farooghkz> *my client name
[17:34] <alimj> no?
[17:35] <alimj> IRC only shows your IP while joining
[17:35] <farooghkz> alimj, why u r speaking eng?
[17:35] <alimj> Because I thought mike90 would like to listen
[17:35] <farooghkz> why we r speaking eng?
[17:35] <alimj> But I guess we can switch to Persian for now
[17:35] <alimj> سلام
[17:35] <alimj> ببخشید
[17:36] <alimj> یک رییسی دارم که می‌گه وقتی که در کنار افراد خارجی هستی و مهمام خارجی داری، سعی کن به زبان انگلیسی صحبت کنی
[17:36] <farooghkz> من مشکلی نداشتم.اتفاقا واسم خوب بود تا انگلیسی ضعیفم قوی شه
[17:37] <alimj> من خودم این را یک بار شاهد بودم که در یک جمع ۵ نفره که همه به زبان آلمانی صحبت می‌کردند، به خاطر من به زبان انگلیسی سوییچ کردند
[17:37] <farooghkz> مایک فقط میتونه فارسی بخونه
[17:37] <alimj> الان می‌تواند فارسی بخواند؟
[17:37] <farooghkz> i switched 2 eng:-)
[17:37] <alimj> احتمال دارد که از مترجم گوگل استفاده می‌کند
[17:37] <alimj> OK
[17:38] <farooghkz> no.he sayed i can just read eng
[17:38] <farooghkz> *fa
[17:38]  * mike90 can read persian O/
[17:38] <mike90> farsi :)
[17:39] <alimj> Are you interested in Persian language mike90?
[17:39] <alimj> Do you use an online translator or you could really read?
[17:39] <mike90> i just can read it and because of this, it's one of my favorites :)
[17:40] <mike90> sure i can read it myself :D
[17:40] <alimj> Interesting
[17:40] <alimj> Where did you learn to read Persian language?
[17:40] <mike90> if you use very professional slangs, i may read it but not understand :D
[17:40] <farooghkz> what does lemme mean?
[17:40] <mike90> let me :D
[17:41] <alimj> Fortunately, this is an Ubuntu support page and would be most unlikely for us to use complex words
[17:41] <farooghkz> hey guys.i have an irc chan
[17:42] <farooghkz> \D:/
[17:42] <mike90> i can remember, 1st time i came here faroogh told me sirish (in persian words) i couldnt understand i used google-translate and it filed to help
[17:42] <mike90> finally faroogh himself told me sirish means glue :D
[17:42] <alimj> I personally have little problems with few English words/expressions which usually I can find in urban dictionary
[17:42] <mike90> im sure sirish is not in urban :D
[17:42] <farooghkz> sirish: a type of glue
[17:43] <alimj> It is an ancient natural glue
[17:43] <farooghkz> سیریش
[17:43] <mike90> yeah i remember mate :), and im a sirish
[17:43] <mike90> :)
[17:43] <alimj> No worries
[17:43] <mike90> farooghkz ^
[17:43] <farooghkz> no mike.
[17:44] <alimj> It is already astonishing that you could read our alphabet. It is usually very hard
[17:44] <farooghkz> the sentence was 2 translate :-)
[17:45] <alimj> Usually only western people who had been exposed to Arabic language could read our alphabet
[17:46] <alimj> Here the local classes for Persian try to focus on vocabulary and grammar, using Latin alphabets, and switch to Persian alphabet only in last stages
[17:46] <mike90> alimj: common mate :D, not really 2 hard, most of people here who travels middle-east tries to learn, some fail some success, also i have many friends(like myself) who are hybrid :D
[17:47] <alimj> You are Half Persian?
[17:47] <farooghkz> bb in 30min
[17:47] <mike90> faroogh, bye :D
[17:48] <mike90> alimj: not exactly myself, it's true about Generations ago :D
[17:49] <alimj> I get it :-)
[17:49] <mike90> i saw my grannies talked either azerbaijani and persian :D
[17:49] <alimj> I see
[17:49] <alimj> Azerbaijani is a sub family of Turkish language
[17:50] <alimj> But has similar roots
[17:50] <mike90> with a little diffrent i see, i have turko friends :D, but i can say ensured azerbaijani is absoloutely harder than persian i think
[17:51] <alimj> I have never tried to learn
[17:51] <alimj> I had many Azari friends
[17:51] <mike90> me too :D
[17:51] <mike90> azari is right or azeri ?
[17:51] <alimj> It would be very useful here.
[17:51] <mike90> i iran ?
[17:51] <alimj> Both are correct
[17:52] <mike90> is useful ?
[17:52] <mike90> *is it useful in iran?
[17:52] <alimj> Yes. Many people in Iran speak that language
[17:52] <mike90> wow :D i thought only north-western part of there is like that :D
[17:52] <alimj> Currently I work in a company where most people speak Azari language
[17:53] <mike90> here i know turko ones, when they're more than one, usually try to speak that :D
[17:53] <mike90> qlagh qlagh qlagh
[17:53] <mike90> aaaah
[17:54] <alimj> Azari pronunciations are very hard
[17:54] <mike90> yeah harder than blah blah blah :D
[17:54] <mike90> as it's "qlagh qlagh qlagh" :D
[17:55] <mike90> BTW, i <3 cultular diffs :D
[17:55] <alimj> Same here :-)
[17:55] <alimj> It is always nice to try to understand and learn from different cultures
[17:56] <mike90> yeah :D
[17:56] <alimj> OK, I have to leave early tonight. I have to water the plants, turn on washing machine and lot's of other pending tasks.
[17:56] <alimj> I will be here for a while
[17:56] <alimj> Usually online in the afternoons
[17:57] <mike90> OK, then gn8 ;D
[17:58] <mike90> i have to go home too :D
[17:59] <alimj> o/
[18:20] <farooghkz> sorry 4 2min lag
[18:20] <farooghkz> ;-)
[18:22] <farooghkz> we were talking about what?
[18:30] <farooghkz> alimj, is ur nick registed?
[18:36] <alimj> farooghkz: Yes, it is. Unfortunately I have to go early tonight :-( Important tasks tomorrow. Will be online in the evening
[18:37] <farooghkz> ok np
[18:45] <farooghkz> bye4now :-)


[03:37] <DoubleB> hello all :D
[03:52] <zillah> and hello from me also
[04:02] <Ahmuck> hi
[04:03] <zillah> hi Ahmuck
[04:06] <zillah> hey TommyT
[04:06] <TommyT> Howdy! I almost forgot to stop by.
[04:07] <zillah> lol
[04:07] <zillah> how are you tonight
[04:08] <TommyT> I'm doing great. I was trying to pull up the logs to catch up on the conversation...
[04:09] <zillah> if i had to guess i'd say there hasn't been much of one
[04:09] <TommyT> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/15/%23ubuntu-us-ar.txt
[04:09] <TommyT> Looks like it, though this log bot is not as "real time" as the old one was
[04:10] <TommyT> Also I wish it was in local time, not UTC
[04:10] <DoubleB> hey
[04:11] <TommyT> .... I do have an Ubuntu topic to ask about
[04:12] <TommyT> someone gave me an Acer Aspire 5100 laptop they had given up on
[04:12] <TommyT> I was able to restore it to "factory fresh" and I thought it was merely afflicted with 5 levels of Hell
[04:12] <TommyT> Microsoft
[04:13] <TommyT> Windows
[04:13] <TommyT> Vista
[04:13] <TommyT> Home
[04:13] <TommyT> Premium
[04:13] <zillah> lol
[04:13] <TommyT> UNFORTUNATELY, however, the Radeon 1100 card in it has a serious bug
[04:13] <zillah> what's the bug?
[04:14] <TommyT> when running Ubuntu, if you suspend it and wake it up, the display is garbled
[04:14] <zillah> hrm
[04:14] <TommyT> I have tried all the possible settings INCLUDING the xorg-crack repository
[04:14] <DoubleB> ha love the five levels of hell
[04:14] <TommyT> even weirder...
[04:15] <TommyT> X won't run at ALL with vesa or fbdev (vanilla) drivers
[04:16] <TommyT> I can't imagine having a laptop you can't suspend, so I've been hacking away at it for over a week now
[04:17] <TommyT> I've been posting in an Ubuntu bug and tracking an xorg bug
[04:17] <zillah> have you using ati catalyst drivers?
[04:17] <zillah> are you*
[04:17] <zillah> sorry for the engrish
[04:17] <TommyT> I don't know catalyst... where do they come from?
[04:19] <zillah> grrr...usually from ATI's site, but i'm getting Service Unavailable
[04:19] <zillah> you might look at this: http://www.techspot.com/drivers/driver/file/information/11436/
[04:19] <TommyT> I'm finding something on http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
[04:20] <TommyT> HAH it just went to service unavailable
[04:21] <zillah> lol well at least it's not just me
[04:22] <TommyT> If nothing else the techspot site has a lot of words on it, some of which might help me out
[04:22] <zillah> i had an ati card and was having issues with dual monitors and i think the catalyst driver + edits to xorgconfig fixed it i think
[04:23] <TommyT> great... for whatever reason I haven't run into this much video trouble before
[04:23] <TommyT> especially that vesa won't work at all -- it segfaults
[04:24] <TommyT> I was going to check for a bug on that... xorg calls the vesa driver "failsafe"
[04:24] <DoubleB> zillah i remember that day.
[04:25] <zillah> yeah that was a nightmare DoubleB
[04:25] <DoubleB> yeah but after you found that tutorial all was good
[04:26] <DoubleB> did you delicious that site?
[04:26] <zillah> not sure, i'll look
[04:32] <TommyT> Here's some info for Ubuntu 9.10 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI
[04:32] <zillah> here's that tutorial DoubleB was talking about that i used: http://blog.vinceliu.com/2009/02/setting-dual-head-displays-with-radeon.html
[04:34] <TommyT> THAT looks pretty helpful.... UNFORTUNATELY....
[04:35] <TommyT> "Ah, suspend/hibernate - this is one of the difficult issues when it comes to Linux in general. Neither of my colleagues nor I could make it work properly, and some of them are really hard-core guys :P"
[04:35] <TommyT> drat
[04:36] <TommyT> Thanks for the leads, however. That gives me a lot more to try when I should be getting my work done. ;-)
[04:37] <zillah> i've never had much luck with it either from what i remember
[04:39] <TommyT> I'll have to go soon... I think the reason the laptop thing galls me so much is...
[04:40] <TommyT> I can watch Vista grinding away horribly but it can suspend OK. Ubuntu fairly screams, but tears up the screen if you forget and close the lid
[04:40] <zillah> lol
[04:40] <zillah> i know what you mean
[04:40] <zillah> that's my complaint with freebsd
[04:41] <zillah> it's rock solid, but forget using Flash  :(
[04:41] <TommyT> Last time I used Gnash it was ALMOST functional.
[04:41] <TommyT> Maybe it will work with freebsd
[04:41] <zillah> yeah i saw something about that the other day
[04:42] <TommyT> it has probably been two years since I tried it
[04:42] <DoubleB> HTML5 <video> ftw!
[04:42] <zillah> i just gave up and took the keyboard mouse video and speakers off freebsd and access it from ubuntu now with vnc
[04:42] <zillah> amen DoubleB
[04:43] <TommyT> it's funny because I was reading something the other day that pointed out...
[04:43] <TommyT> it hasn't been THAT long ago that Quicktime was THE way to put video online
[04:43] <DoubleB> I can't wait until firefox 4 releses. then I can us webm on the website
[04:44] <TommyT> but YouTube instantly made Flash the most popular way to do video
[04:44] <zillah> yeah, which is great for windows users, sucks for everybody else
[04:44] <DoubleB> yup
[04:44] <zillah> DoubleB, what's webm
[04:45] <TommyT> Nowadays you can play most quicktime stuff using vnc or totem
[04:45] <TommyT> vlc I mean
[04:45] <DoubleB> http://www.webmproject.org/
[04:46] <DoubleB> google bought the codec and free/opened it
[04:46] <DoubleB> fsf endorses it
[04:46] <TommyT> I got the idea they were all gangbusters on that a few months back but slowed way down
[04:46] <zillah> oh i remember this now
[04:46] <DoubleB> Chrome and Opera support and so will Firefox 4 :D
[04:47] <DoubleB> ie 9 will support it with the codec installed
[04:47] <TommyT> didn't they drop the special url in Youtube?
[04:47] <TommyT> or is it still available
[04:47] <DoubleB> for?
[04:47] <TommyT> for the webm or html5
[04:47] <TommyT> I can't remember
[04:47] <DoubleB> youtube.com/htm5
[04:48] <DoubleB> opt in
[04:48] <TommyT> http://www.youtube.com/html5 that's it
[04:49] <TommyT> I thought I read somewhere they dropped it, but maybe I dreamt it
[04:49] <DoubleB> there is someway to force webm but I forget
[04:49] <zillah> it tells on the webm site
[04:49] <zillah> you append &webm to the url or something
[04:50] <TommyT> http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-play-webm-video-on-youtube.html
[04:51] <TommyT> there's what I read -- Google didn't convert EVERYTHING to webm, so some videos won't play
[04:51] <DoubleB> yeah
[04:51] <TommyT> or maybe that has changed or will change when the new browsers come out
[04:53] <TommyT> well I am getting the "it is cold and you need to come to bed" messages from the other room
[04:53] <TommyT> gotta go
[04:53] <zillah> lol ttyl TommyT


[09:44] <d1rkp1tt> Hi guys, I downloaded ubuntu server, and am trying to get unity running without success... in fact I cant find instructions on it either. THis is probably the wrong place to ask for help about this


[12:46] <ubotu> Daisuke_Ido called the ops in #kubuntu
[12:47] <Hobbsee> (done, thanks nixternal)
[12:48] <nixternal> no problem
[12:49] <mc44> Hobbsee: Seveas is the lovechild of Keybuk and elmo? I'm scared... :)
[12:49] <Hobbsee> mc44: heh.  seems so :P
[12:49] <Hobbsee> mad dutchman.
[12:51] <mneptok> i'm picturing elmo's face during childbirth.
[12:51] <mneptok> it ... looks a lot like his release day face.
[12:51] <mc44> haha
[12:51] <Hobbsee> haha
[12:51] <Hobbsee> or when the planet stuff happened?
[12:52] <mneptok> i Don't Know What You're Talking About(tm)
[12:52] <mneptok> Hobbsee: ask MagicFab about my t-shirt suggestion
[12:53] <Hobbsee> mneptok: what tshirt suggestion?
[12:54] <mneptok> Hobbsee: i told him to get a t-shirt printed that said "I Am Wearing This T-Shirt Until Further Notice. Please See ubuntu.com For More Details."
[12:54] <Hobbsee> mneptok: and why?
[12:54] <mneptok> Hobbsee: oh, ask MagicFab.
[12:55] <Hobbsee> will probably see him at breakfast tomorrow
[12:55] <mneptok> (i thought you were referring to that planet incident)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> yes
[12:56] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: lol, I like it
[12:56] <mc44> Hobbsee: Id go with him getting his embargo time zones wrong :)
[12:57] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:57] <tonyyarusso> mc44: sounds plausible.  "s/UCT/Montreal/ you ninny!"
 Riddell, fdoving, Mez, jpatrick, seth_k, apokryphos, nalioth, Hobbsee, robotgeek, imbrandon, gnomefreak, Hawkwind, trappist, LjL, Jucato,  haggai, fooishbar, crimsun, seth, apokryphos, DBO, or nixternal
[01:58] <LjL> i've set +t on other people's request on #kubuntu (and seemed quite reasonable to me too given what just happened)
[02:05] <nalioth> good idea, LjL
[02:16] <nalioth> anyone want to banforward #kubuntu ?
[02:16] <LjL> done

[02:17] <LjL> hmm
[02:22] <mneptok> wha'ppen?
[02:23] <nalioth> trolls in #kubuntu
[02:23] <nalioth> taken care of
[02:23] <mneptok> yay.
[02:23] <mneptok> go Freenode.
[04:48] <ubotu> cafuego called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:48] <ubotu> Jordan_U called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:53] <jrib> mneptok: are they registered?
[04:54] <mneptok> the bots?
[04:54] <Jordan_U> There should be a switch for !ops to optionally display "we know" :)
[04:54] <jrib> mneptok: yeah
[04:56] <ubotu> NickGarvey called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:56] <jrib> mneptok: why not just +Rr?
[04:57] <mneptok> yeah, looks like they're unregged
[05:19] <jrib> mneptok: think the bots are gone?
[05:24] <ubotu> In ubotu, Blak1 said: (is not in the sudoers file. ) this is what i got? its the only login i created?
[05:24] <jrib> !ubotu > blak1
[06:05] <Seveas> ompaul, what's the reason cjwatson wants a ping?
[06:06] <SportChick> hey Seveas, did you get my memo?
[06:06] <ompaul> Seveas, we are talking about usplash switchers
[06:06] <ompaul> still in B
[06:07] <Seveas> ah
[06:07] <Seveas> SportChick, no
[06:07] <Seveas> ompaul, I'll be right there
[06:07] <Tm_T> Jucato: what you say, do I ban him?
[06:08] <Jucato> Tm_T: heh your call...  I'm getting a (You have joined to too many channels) error when trying to join a channel! :|
[06:50] <gouki> I had no idea there was a limit
[06:51] <gnomefreak> gouki: 20
[06:52] <gouki> Thanks gnomefreak, I had no idea
[06:52] <gnomefreak> yw
[08:01] <ubotu> Sanne called the ops in #kubuntu
[08:03] <nalioth> nixternal: BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong answer
[08:03] <nixternal> huh
[08:03] <nixternal> wrong answer why?
[08:04] <nixternal> never mind, just seen that
[08:05] <nalioth> nixternal: care to join #ubuntu-proxy-users ?
[08:05] <nixternal> oh lord, are you kidding me ;)
[08:06] <nalioth> unfortunately, it's come to this, what with all the trolls
[08:07] <nixternal> you sit in there the entire time?
[08:07] <nalioth> see what i mean?
[08:07] <nalioth> nixternal: yes, i idle there
[08:07] <nixternal> jeesh
[08:07] <nalioth> i think i'm the only op that does
[08:08] <nixternal> nalioth: I see why ;)
[08:08] <nalioth> nah, check the modes
[08:08] <Pici> bleh
[08:08] <Myrtti> should someone take off that ban I just gave the polish guy?
[08:09] <Myrtti> /me hesitates
[08:09] <nalioth> which polish guy? where? Myrtti
[08:09] <nixternal> heh
[08:09] <Myrtti> at #ubuntu
[08:10] <nalioth> Myrtti: no, it can stay for a while
[08:11] <Myrtti> ok, because I'm almost ready to turn in for the day
[08:11] <nalioth> nixternal: oh fun, now i'm being PM'd by the monkey man
[08:29] <nixternal> heh
[08:38] <beuno> gouki: it seems the bot and the server are taking a nap  :D
[09:59] <ubotu> rukuartic called the ops in #ubuntu
[09:59] <ubotu> soundray called the ops in #ubuntu
[10:00] <gouki> beuno, it's really getting on my nerves!
[10:00] <LjL> darn chanserv
[10:00] <Amaranth> LjL: bit of lag there?
[10:01] <LjL> yeah like 15 seconds
[10:01] <LjL> but i wasn't lagged, chanserv was
[10:01] <LjL> at least i don't think
[10:01] <beuno> gouki: what's wrong?
[10:01] <gouki> I have no idea! The whole thing just crashes!
[10:02] <beuno> gouki: maybe you shouldn't host it on windows nt
[10:02] <effie_jayx> lol
[10:02] <gouki> beuno, LOLOL
[10:02] <gouki> I'm really starting to believe I shouldn't host it in Debian!
[10:03] <gouki> With no apparent reason, I lose Internet connection, SSH, lighttpd stops responding, etc...
[10:03] <beuno> gouki: can you reboot it or do you just wait until someone cleans that room?
[10:04] <gouki> I can reboot it, but not even that is working!
[10:04] <gouki> I honestly have no idea of what happened there!
[10:04] <beuno> gouki: logs will be your friend
[10:05] <gouki> Yeah, but I have to get a monitor and keyboard now :(
[10:05] <beuno> gouki: maybe seperate the apache server from the IRC bot?
[10:05] <beuno> as I've said before, I can host that for you
[10:06] <gouki> Does the Service Provider allow IRC?
[10:07] <beuno> gouki: that would be a very emphatical *no*
[10:07] <beuno> but everything else is cool
[10:07] <gouki> :)
[10:07] <gouki> I'm gonna try and figure out with this stupid and stubborn computer wants...
[10:08] <beuno> good luck
[10:08] <gouki> I'm gonna need it!
[10:11] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, kbrooks said: !lamp is perhaps Edgy+ should be changed to "Edgy and over"?
[10:24] <stefg> someone look at #ubuntu.... religiuos debates emanating
[11:25] <ubotu> In ubotu, ToHellWithGA said: latex is LaTeX is a set of extensions for the TeX typesetting language.  LaTeX lets you write documents based on content rather than form then interprets chunks of text and tags to compile .pdf or .dvi documents using international typesetting standards.  See http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/english/lshort.pdf for details on syntax.
[11:51] <tritium> BearPerson: thanks.  What the heck was that?
[11:51] <BearPerson> kiddie picking up a botnet
[11:51] <BearPerson> I think you can go -Rr again now
[11:51] <BearPerson> for a bit
[11:52] <tritium> okay, thanks
[11:52] <tritium> Looks like nalioth got that taken care of.
[11:52] <BearPerson> they did join/part spamming?
[11:52] <nalioth> more like join/part flooding
[11:52] <tritium> I mean he went -Rr again
[11:53] <BearPerson> well, yeah
[11:53] <BearPerson> I guess it's spring break for the kiddies, or something
[11:54] <BearPerson> having more time on their hands than they can handle
[11:56] <nalioth> as usual


[09:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jbicha, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2899 Diff missing (artful/mozjs52). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (artful/gjs)


[03:29] <cpscotti> Hey everybody, could some motu review/advocate the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It is a python app to generate computer-vision/image processing c code from block diagrams. It has alreade been uploaded to archive but got rejected due to some dependencies issues that were already fixed. Thanks a bunch!
[06:30] <dholbach> good morning
[06:30] <ajmitch> hi
[06:31] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[06:32]  * ajmitch waves farewell to the laptop
[06:34]  * hyperair has just written a one-liner, crude pull-revu-source script =\
[06:37] <persia> hyperair, Um, why not just use dget?
[06:38] <dholbach> persia: maybe it does something like      pull-revu-source indiana-jones-and-the-last-crusade
[06:39] <persia> I generally like to read the comments anyway, but perhaps my URL dragging methods don't work for everyone.
[06:46] <hyperair> persia: the script uses dget. the whole point is to pass it a package and dget the dsc without needing to launch a browser
[06:50]  * kb9vqf says a few nasty things to his laptop
[09:49] <gaspa> geser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/372704 \o/
[09:54] <geser> that was fast, perhaps it's on egde tomorrow so I can adapt your other change to use it
[09:54] <gaspa> :)
[09:57] <slytherin> any docbook experts here?
[09:58] <persia> slytherin, You might try #ubuntu-doc, unless it's not Ubuntu-related.
[09:59] <slytherin> No. It is not ubuntu related.
[09:59] <persia> Not sure if they would help then, although they do tend to use docbook a lot.  They might trade for some good writeups of some of our tech :)
[10:01] <slytherin> I have very specific question about list item.
[10:01] <gaspa> slytherin: you make me remember that I completely forgot that w3m-xxx issue...
[10:03] <slytherin> :-)
[10:47] <Laney> What is the correct way to drop a binary package from a source package if the binary has an (= ${binary:Version}) depend on another -- libgnomescanui0: Depends: libgnomescan0 (= 0.4.1-0ubuntu4) but 0.6.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed.
[10:48] <Laney> gnomescanui0 has been dropped
[10:54] <geser> what happens if you simply don't build it anymore?
[10:54] <geser> I don't see the problem currently
[10:55] <Laney> it breaks the dependency on the previously installed version (which no longer exists)
[10:55] <Laney> conflicts on the new libgnome0 could work
[10:57] <hyperair> don't both binary packages come from the same source package?
[10:57] <hyperair> if they do, won't it suffice to upload another version without the dependency?
[10:58] <Laney> they do, and that is what happened
[10:58] <Laney> but aptitude doesn't like it
[10:58] <geser> you need to transition the rdepends of libgnomescanui0 anyway, after that it should be safe to let apt remove libgnomescanui0 during dist-upgrade
[10:59] <Laney> there are no rdepends
[10:59] <hyperair> what does aptitude full-upgrade say?
[10:59] <Laney> that's what I was doing
[10:59] <geser> doesn't aptitude do a safe-upgrade by default?
[10:59] <hyperair> yeah it does
[10:59] <Laney> dunno, but I explicitly did full-upgrade
[10:59] <geser> i.e. it won't remove packages?
[10:59] <hyperair> hmm
[11:00] <hyperair> if you explicitly did, then it shouldn't be an issue
[11:00] <Laney> :(
[11:00] <hyperair> what does apt-cache policy libgnomescanui0 say?
[11:00] <Laney> apt-get does the right thing here btw
[11:00] <hyperair> eh? hmm
[11:00] <hyperair> aptitude fail =(
[11:01] <geser> doesn't have aptitude an option to explain why it choose a specific solution? (I don't use aptitude myself)
[11:01] <hyperair> 17:47:59 <Laney> What is the correct way to drop a binary package from a source package if the binary has an (= ${binary:Version}) depend on another -- libgnomescanui0: Depends: libgnomescan0 (= 0.4.1-0ubuntu4) but 0.6.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed.
[11:02] <Laney> and the first solution it proposes is to hold back gnomescan0
[11:04] <hyperair> Laney: how about libgnomescanui0 provides libgnomescan0?
[11:04] <Laney> haha
[11:04] <Laney> horrible :(
[11:04] <hyperair> =p
[11:04] <hyperair> why was libgnomescan0 removed anyway/
[11:04] <cyberixae> How can there be a source package in the repository without any binary packages?
[11:04] <cyberixae> That seems to be the case here http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=gnome-shell&searchon=sourcenames
[11:04] <Laney> ui was removed, upstream doesn't do it any more
[11:04] <Laney> cyberixae: hasn't passed binary NEW is my guess
[11:05] <Laney> hyperair: if I run aptitude full-upgrade a second time after the rest of the upgrades are done it wants to remove it this time
[11:05]  * Laney shrugs
[11:05] <hyperair> Laney: ah. i've seen something like that before.
[11:05] <geser> cyberixae: failed to build yet (depwait for gnome-shell)
[11:06] <Laney> different proposal based on when you do it, weird
[11:06] <hyperair> more like based on what's remaining =\
[11:06] <cyberixae> I tought you'd normally fix that kind of stuff before uploading the source
[11:06] <Laney> but those two packages don't affect anything else
[11:06] <gnomefreak> do we support EeePC or better yet Eeebuntu?
[11:06] <Laney> no
[11:07] <Laney> that's a third party project afaik
[11:07] <gnomefreak> thank you so much :)
[11:07] <Laney> we are responsible for the packages that get installed though
[11:07] <geser> cyberixae: we usually try to minimize build errors but it doesn't work out in all cases
[11:07] <gnomefreak> Laney: thanks
[11:07] <Laney> it's perfectly fine for stuff to depwait
[11:08] <Laney> let computers do the boring scheduling work once you know it all fits together fine
[11:09] <hyperair> you waste buildd time =p
[11:09] <Laney> hardly
[11:09] <hyperair> hardly, but the time still exists =p
[11:10] <Laney> which time is more valuable?
[11:10] <hyperair> uh what?
[11:10] <Laney> computer time or developer time
[11:10] <hyperair> heh it depends =p
[11:10] <hyperair> but in this case i'd say developer time
[11:11] <hyperair> you could have cron or at dput it for you, though =p
[11:11] <Laney> heh
[11:12] <Laney> !
[11:15] <hyperair> oho
[12:42] <Laney> Could do with some help removing LVM snapshots created by sbuild: http://dpaste.com/64974/
[12:43] <Laney> wait
[12:43] <Laney> no, can't lvchange -an the snapshot either
[13:28] <bddebian> Heya gang
[13:50] <highvoltage> greetings db
[13:50] <highvoltage> greetings bddebian
[13:50] <bddebian> Hi highvoltage
[14:14] <maxb> Transferring an unanswered question from the #ubuntu-classroom dh7 session: How do you run conditional logic that must be run only when building the arch-indep packages - i.e. not on the non-i386 buildds?
[14:14] <maxb> I suspect the answer may involve shell conditionals testing the output of dh_listpackages, but would welcome comments on whether this is the "right way"/
[14:17] <james_w> maxb: would this be having build-arch and build-indep, or just the usual binary-arch and binary-indep split for install/creating the deb?
[14:17] <persia> maxb, You add a binary-indep rule, and do some stuff before/after calling dh binary-indep
[14:18] <maxb> What about stuff you need to do in the middle of the dh sequence? Example: python module package installs usr/lib/ into foo and foo-common. Then deletes *.so from the indep package and everything except *.so from the arch-dep package
[14:18] <persia> That sort of separation belongs in your dh_install hint files, I think.
[14:19] <persia> so it builds into debian/tmp, and foo.install vs. foo-common.install do the split.
[14:19] <persia> (and foo-common install is tossed for non-arch-all builds)
[14:22] <maxb> You can't say debian/tmp/usr/lib/!(*.so) in an .install file, though, can you?
[14:22] <alourie> dholbach_: a word in private?
[14:22] <dholbach_> alourie: sure
[14:23] <persia> maxb, Sure you can, but generally you just say "usr/lib/*.so" or some such, without the debian/tmp and let dh_install figure it out.
[14:24] <persia> Just need to use valid globs as parsed by dh_install (I forget if these are POSIX or perl)
[14:25] <maxb> Hmm... note I used a bash extended glob above - I don't think you can actually translate that into anything dh_install will process
[14:27] <persia> Well, if dh_install uses shell globs, you can force make to use bash, but that's considered a (mild) packaging bug.
[14:27] <persia> Check the dh_install code.
[14:29] <james_w> dh7 doesn't seem to be suited to doing actual arch-only builds though
[14:29] <maxb> No, it's perl globs, and they can't do what I want, which returns us to the initial question
[14:29] <persia> james_w, How do you mean "arch-only"?
[14:29] <maxb> "dpkg-buildpackage -B"
[14:29] <persia> maxb, Um, there's nothing a perl glob can't match, the syntax just gets ugly.
[14:30] <maxb> write me a perl glob which says "all files in usr/lib/ except ones matching *.so" and I'll believe that
[14:30] <maxb> They just aren't expressive enough for this
[14:30] <james_w> all files with an even number of matched and nested brackets?
[14:31] <james_w> maxb: that's possible in perl
[14:31] <persia> maxb, I'm not actually going to do that, but I'm convinced it's possible because perl was invented because awk globs were insufficient for a certain class of accounting file review activities.
[14:31] <maxb> Unless I'm totally missing something, it's not possible in a single glob expression
[14:32] <alkisg> language-pack-en depends on language-pack-en-base, and the opposite, language-pack-en-base depends on language-pack-en. How can the a user install them? I've tried dpkg -i <both of them> and it fails...(I'm trying to do something similar)
[14:32] <james_w> alkisg: give both at the same time to "dpkg -i"
[14:32] <persia> alkisg, Have you looked at the contents, control, and maintainer scripts for those packages?
[14:33] <persia> alkisg, Also, last time we talked about this, you were looking at Replaces.  What happened there?
[14:33] <alkisg> james_w: I've tried that, (for 2 similar packages of mine at least) and it failed, leaving the first of them in an unconfigured state.
[14:33] <alkisg> persia: that's what I'm looking into, and I'm stuck with this
[14:34] <persia> alkisg, Which bit is sticking?
[14:34] <alkisg> The fact that I cannot install 2 packages that depend on each-other
[14:34] <alkisg> (and the second one replaces the first)
[14:34] <alkisg> Do I need a third package (like language-support-en) that depends on both of them or something?
[14:35] <james_w> maxb, persia: you can't do that with dh_install
[14:35] <persia> alkisg, No, that doesn't matter.
[14:35] <persia> james_w, Um, why not?  That's how I do libraries when I package those.
[14:36] <persia> alkisg, But you don't want circular dependencies anyway.  That just leads to headaches.
[14:36] <james_w> persia: you have a glob to list all files in /usr/lib except for .so?
[14:36] <persia> Well, no, I list the files I want installed.  But I don't see any reason why one couldn't construct a nifty glob.
[14:36]  * persia is pedestrian about these things
[14:36] <maxb> persia: It's not possible. Perhaps you're confusing globs and regular expressions
[14:36] <james_w> persia: I'm saying you can't construct a nifty glob
[14:37] <alkisg> persia: circular dependencies seem a headache to me too, but I just thought I'd use the same (=similar) dependencies that language-pack* uses... OK, I'll just dump one dependency :) Thanks!
[14:37] <james_w> dh_install uses a non-nifty glob
[14:37] <persia> Ah.  That's unfortunate.
[14:37] <james_w> maxb: so you can either be a bit more explicit in the install files, or use an override and rm and just list usr/lib/* in each
[14:38] <persia> alkisg, If you want to use the same dependencies, you can, but you get to figure how the relation (and looking that those packages is probably your best guide).  The constrant recommendation is to not introduce circular dependencies.
[14:38] <alkisg> (in bash there's a GLOBIGNORE=*.so for this - ignore me if that's irrelevant)
[14:38] <persia> alkisg, We try to avoid using bash as a backing shell for make in debian/rules
[14:38] <maxb> james_w: Yup, that's what I said 20 minutes ago, and then persia tried to convince me otherwise :-)
[14:39] <alkisg> I'm moving my scripts away from bashisms too :)
[14:39] <james_w> maxb: well, you caused me to read the source of dh_install, so it wasn't useless :-)
[14:40] <maxb> So, i'm thinking that shell is the way to go here -      if dh_listpackages | egrep -q '^foo-common$'; then indeponlystuff; fi
[14:43]  * persia reads more about globs, and gets annoyed at the lack of negation
[14:44] <persia> maxb, Um, no.  What precisely are you trying to do?
[14:44] <persia> And when do you need it done?
[14:45] <maxb> I need dh_install to install usr/lib/ into a foo and a foo-common package, putting *.so into foo and not *.so into foo-common
[14:45] <persia> And you can't determine !*.so in advance?
[14:46] <maxb> It could be done, but it would be somewhat more fragile to upstream changes
[14:46] <persia> Well, yes, but that's often a good idea when dealing with libraries.
[14:47] <persia> But the other option is to have your build rule depend on build-arch and build-indep
[14:47] <persia> No, that won't help.  You just have a single build run.
[14:48] <persia> Right.  Got it.
[14:48] <persia> Or maybe not.
[14:48] <maxb> In a dh6 world, I'd just use binary-arch vs. binary-indep - simple
[14:48] <persia> Just be careful with upstreams.
[14:49] <persia> maxb, binary-arch and binary-indep still exist in dh7.
[14:49] <persia> But dh_install runs in build.
[14:49] <persia> (or rather, in install, but build depends on install)
[14:50] <james_w> build depends on install?
[14:50] <alkisg> persia: could you give me your advice on one last thing? I built the "base" package with all the files in it. Now I'm trying to build the "differences" package that only contains a few of those files that needed to be modified.
[14:50] <alkisg> Am I understanding this correctly in that I need to copy the modified files to a different directory before I make the "differences" package? I mean that the usual "orig.tar.gz" method does not apply here, because there's no "original source" in the "differences" package, right?
[14:50] <persia> No.  I'm wrong.  install depends on build.
[14:51] <alkisg> (I'm probably not making any sense :()
[14:51] <persia> alkisg, I don't know how to advise you.  I don't think following that model is the right way to handle updates, although I understand that you do, and your arguments.
[14:51] <persia> But if you must do it that way, the differences package as native is likely least bad.
[14:51] <james_w> maxb: do you really mean foo-common from /usr/lib?
[14:52] <james_w> maxb: the package puts arch-indep things in /usr/lib?
[14:52] <persia> Ah, good point!
[14:52] <maxb> I do. Python (a bit perversely, I accept) puts *.py in /usr/lib
[14:52] <persia> maxb, Does it put it directly in /usr/lib, or in /usr/lib/something?
[14:52] <alkisg> persia: but is there a way to handle it as not-native, while preventing it from being 100Mb?
[14:53] <maxb>  /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/dist-packages/...
[14:53] <persia> alkisg, Yes, but that's probably even worse.
[14:53] <persia> maxb, Then just have foo-common.install contain usr/lib/python?.?/
[14:54] <maxb> The *.so files are *also* there
[14:54] <persia> (or specify more closely if you know the values of X and Y)
[14:54] <alkisg> persia: OK, I don't want to take any more of your time. I appreciate all of your help, thanks a lot. :)
[14:54] <persia> maxb, In the same directory as the .py files?
[14:54] <maxb> yes
[14:54] <persia> I don't think they belong there.
[14:55] <persia> Ugh, or maybe they do.
[14:55] <persia> That's just broken.
[14:55] <james_w> nope
[14:56] <james_w> well, not for python
[14:56] <persia> Well, yeah.  I claim python is broken, not the specific package.
[14:56] <james_w> maxb: can you just have *.py in foo-common.install and *.so in foo.install?
[14:57] <james_w> most packages don't bother with a common for this though
[14:57] <maxb> For added fun, there's multiple levels of directory structure
[14:57] <james_w> nice
[14:57] <persia> maxb, Don't bother with -common.  That's going to be easier.
[14:57] <persia> Unless the volume of arch-indep data is so large to make it very useful.
[14:58] <maxb> 1.1MB indep vs 55K archdep
[14:58] <maxb> :-)
[14:58] <maxb> The package is mercurial, fwiw, which currently has a question in the changelog from the Debian maintainer wondering what the proper way to do this is.
[14:59] <POX> arch:all python packages should not have files in /usr/lib (hint: /usr/share/pyshared)
[14:59] <persia> And that's the key.  It was broken.
[14:59] <persia> Fix the build system :)
[14:59] <maxb> No. The files *are* in /usr/share/pyshared by the time the build finishes
[14:59] <persia> Or live with arch-dep
[15:00] <persia> maxb, So, what's the confusion then?  foo.install has usr/lib and foo-common.install has usr/share
[15:01] <maxb> dh_install has to separate the upstream-style installation into two packages - dh_pysupport only runs later, and rearranges the structure
[15:02] <persia> dh7 doesn't seem to call dh_pysupport, unless it's a hook.
[15:03] <james_w> it's an addon
[15:03] <james_w> /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/python_support.pm
[15:04] <persia> Hrm.  And I suppose it works the way it does for legacy reasons.
[15:08] <POX> .py files should be installed to the standard location (/usr/lib or /usr/local/*/dist-packages), dh_pysupport will move them to /usr/share/pyshared
[15:09] <POX> /usr/share/pyshared should *not* be used in setupy.py's install
[15:09] <persia> POX, So, how should one construct dh_install hint files to split a package?
[15:10] <POX> make sure you use one dir only (force python2.6 to install to site-packages, without local) and then use something like /usr/lib/*/site-packages/foo/bar.py
[15:11] <POX> (in package.install file)
[15:11] <persia> maxb, ^^
[15:20] <POX> persia: maxb: maybe '*-packages/foo/bar.py' will work as well (you'll not have to touch python2.6 stuff then)
[15:29] <slytherin> geser: maven-plugin-tools needs a class which is not available in any of the packages libraries. So untill the library is located and packages, the maven work can not continue. I have asked Ludovic Claude for help as he is working on the maven stack in Debian.
[15:42] <debfx> what's the best way to add a png icon to a package? base64 encoded?
[15:46] <AnAnt_> Hello, should I subscribe u-u-s to such a bug: LP 397456
[16:02] <maxb> slytherin: I'm intrigued... people can't even find the class?
[16:06] <james_w> does anyone else find "(Accepted)" being at the end of the subject suboptimal?
[16:06] <james_w> mails from soyuz that is
[16:07] <soren> james_w: Woould you rather have it read something else or would you rather have "(Accepted)" somewhere else on the line?
[16:08] <slytherin> maxb: I didn't find it in already packaged libraries. It is available somewhere in maven repositories in one of the jar files.
[16:08] <ScottK> james_w: I do find this.
[16:08] <james_w> soren: in thunderbird's collapsed mode you only get the first half of the subject
[16:08] <james_w> so I have to expand it to see whether my upload was accepted or not
[16:08] <slytherin> debfx: do you really need to add png icon? Won't SVG work?
[16:09] <slytherin> james_w: I agree, Accepted should be in start
[16:14] <debfx> hm I could use another icon that available as svg
[16:36] <SolarWar> can i create multile pbuilder enviroments
[16:44] <ScottK> Yes
[16:45] <vorian> SolarWar: yes
[16:48] <slytherin> SolarWar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[16:49] <SolarWar> :) thanks I found it already
[17:19] <dholbach> Adri2000: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
[17:25] <Adri2000> dholbach: ahaha, thanks, but it was 2 months ago, I was slow at updating the wiki page :p
[17:28] <cpscotti> Any motu there killing time? Could you check the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It was uploaded to the archive but had some little issues (all corrected now, I think) and got rejected. I already fixed them and re-uploaded it. It is a python app to generate c source code for image processing/computer vision from block diagrams.
[17:33] <geser> al-maisan: Hi, do you plan to finish the magicor merge (as I've seen that you have a potential merge in your PPA) or is this merge free to take?
[17:33] <al-maisan> geser: that was the idea, yes.
[17:35] <geser> no hurry, I just wanted a confirmation as fabrice_sp asked me if this merge is free or not
[17:35] <al-maisan> geser: actually, I just checked my email again, "The source magicor - 1.1-1ubuntu1 is already accepted in ubuntu/karmic"
[17:35] <al-maisan> is this the version in question?
[17:36] <geser> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/magicor still shows 1.0-2ubuntu1
[17:36] <geser> but 1.1-1 is on the to-be-merged list
[17:36] <al-maisan> geser: I'll be busy with some other work in the next few days .. so if you feel like taking care of the package please do so.
[17:36] <al-maisan> don't mind me :)
[17:37]  * al-maisan understood that somebody else merged 1.1-1 in the meantime
[17:38] <al-maisan> hmm .. no .. just checked it.
[19:19]  * marienjoanny marienjoanny
[19:23] <candrews_> Can someone please work on open-vm-tools? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/277556 contains the addition of DKMS and fixes other bugs in open-vm-tools. The package currently in karmic is unusable.
[19:34] <gnomefreak> reto`: there is a link in the topic for what you are looking for
[19:40] <rohitkg> can anyone suggest how to modify the rules file,while creating a debian package
[19:43] <maxb> rohitkg: Do not. Ever. Neither debian or ubuntu would accept such a package
[19:44] <rohitkg> maxb:u mean to say,i shouldn't modify anything inside it
[19:45] <binarymutant> what about postinst and preinst?
[19:45] <maxb> I mean that it would be bad to have a rules file which modifies itself during the build
[19:46] <rohitkg> actually i'm facing problems in understanding the rules file
[19:47] <gnomefreak> was libgdl-1-0 replaced with something in Karmic?
[19:48] <maxb> rohitkg: Ah. Well then, ask specific questions about what you'd like help with.
[19:49] <geser> gnomefreak: libgdl-1-2
[19:49] <gnomefreak> geser: thanks
[19:51] <rohitkg> maxb:i want to know about the diff. macros used
[19:52] <stefanlsd> rohitkg: the dh_ stuff?
[19:52] <maxb> rohitkg: That is too vague an inquiry to answer. Please clarify.
[19:52] <rohitkg> yeah those dh_stuffs
[19:57] <reto`> gnomefreak: ok, thanks
[19:58] <gnomefreak> reto`: np
[20:01] <ScottK> YokoZar: I can tell you that clamd will cost you 5-6 seconds on boot if you start it at boot on a modernish laptop.
[20:02] <YokoZar> ScottK: ok then that's unworkable I guess
[20:02] <YokoZar> Should load it on first open of an app that needs to be scanned then
[20:02] <ScottK> YokoZar: Makes sense.  You'd still want freshclam to start on boot, but that's a lot lighter.
[20:05] <YokoZar> ScottK: Gives a good place to use the "have the wine swishing around the glass while loading" graphic I thought of
[20:11] <ScottK> ;-)
[20:34] <maxb> rohitkg: the dh_ commands are a set of related utilities known as debhelper, and provided by the package of the same name. They have manpages, which are a good place to start discovering what an unfamiliar one does.
[20:34] <rohitkg> ok,i'll be going through that
[20:35] <rohitkg> maxb:which tool do you prefer for building debian packages?
[20:35] <maxb> debhelper. cdbs is scary
[20:36] <rohitkg> ok,i'll start with it
[20:37] <maxb> You might want to review the logs of the packaging training session that was held today in #ubuntu-classroot
[20:37] <maxb> oops
[20:37] <maxb> #ubuntu-classroom
[20:37] <rohitkg> ok
[20:45] <RoAkSoAx> Makefile.in, which seems to have been generated automatically, can be manually modified?
[20:49] <geser> as long as you don't regenerate them yes, I usually patch both the .am and .in so the changes don't get lost if someone regenerates it
[20:50] <geser> of course only if the change is small enough to be make by hand
[20:54] <RoAkSoAx> geser, ok awesome, thanks. :)
[22:31] <slytherin> geser: persia: Can either of you please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/excalibur-logkit whenever you get time?
[22:52] <Legendario> i am trying to pack a script which is not distribuited as a tarball, what should i do in order to not create a debian native package?
[22:54] <hyperair> Legendario: create a tarball first.
[22:54] <hyperair> Legendario: or create a package-version.orig directory
[23:01] <Legendario> hyperair, the software is a bash script. Should i pack it as a tar.gz file and append .orig to it?
[23:02] <hyperair> either way's fine =\
[23:03] <hyperair> the result should be the same anyways
[23:03] <Legendario> hyperair, what about the package-version.orig directory? how does it work?
[23:03] <hyperair> debuild will automatically generate the .orig.tar.gz from that directory
[23:03] <hyperair> that's all there is to it =\
[23:09] <Legendario> hyperair, another thing... I am having a bad time on trying to create a watch file. Can u help me with that?
[23:10] <hyperair> Legendario: watch files can only be created with tarballs
[23:10] <hyperair> afaik
[23:10] <hyperair> man uscan
[23:11] <Legendario> hyperair, so should i ignore the error shown?
[23:11] <hyperair> you'd probably be better off with a blank watch file and a get-orig-source rule.
[23:11] <hyperair> create a blank watch file
[23:11] <hyperair> with a comment saying why a watch file isn't applicable
[23:12] <hyperair> and then add a get-orig-source rule to your debian/rules which automatically grabs the script and then dumps it into a tarball automatically
[23:14] <Legendario> hyperair, any orientation on how to create a get-orig-source rule?
[23:15] <hyperair> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html <-- scroll down to the part about get-orig-source
[23:15] <hyperair> anyway i'm off to bed
[23:15] <hyperair> good night
[23:16] <Legendario> hyperair, thanks a lot
[23:16] <Legendario> good night
[23:16] <hyperair> you're welcome
[23:17] <Ampelbein> Legendario: maybe http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/notes/debian/scripts.html helps with creating get-orig-source.
[23:17] <Legendario> Ampelbein, gonna readit. thanks
[23:21] <cpscotti> Hey everybody, could someone advocate the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It is a python app to generate computer-vision/image processing c source code from block diagrams. It has already been uploaded to archive but got rejected due to some dependencies issues that were already fixed. Thanks a bunch!
[23:52] <binarymutant> can dh7 do cmake?
[23:53] <binarymutant> automagically like regular make I mean


 That's not a happy thing!
[08:58] <DJones> Ah well, there goes the happiness
[09:35] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Storytelling Day! :-D
[09:36]  * JamesTait forgives DJones.
[09:37] <DJones> Much appreciated
[09:39] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:47] <MooDoo> morning
[10:05] <bigcalm> Rackspace cloud server is not responding to http or ssh. Is there anything I can do before just rebooting it?
[10:05] <MooDoo> ping?
[10:06] <MooDoo> do you have console access to it?
[10:06] <bigcalm> Humm
[10:06] <bigcalm> I've just managed to ssh into it from another one of our cloud servers
[10:07] <bigcalm> Now trying to ssh out of the server
[10:07] <bigcalm> Yeah, can't ssh out
[10:08] <bigcalm> So the local network is working
[10:08] <bigcalm> Looking at /sbin/ifconfig, the public ip address is up on eth0
[10:09] <bigcalm> Is it ifup and ifdown to tinker with an interface?
[10:10] <MooDoo> what flavour?  centos?
[10:11] <MooDoo> ubuntu?
[10:11] <foobarry> service network restart if you have ilom access.
[10:13] <bigcalm> MooDoo: Debian something
[10:13] <bigcalm> I've down ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 - still not accessable externally
[10:14] <bigcalm> About to reboot and then get on to Rackspace support
[10:14] <bigcalm> Apparently this has happened before
[10:20] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:21] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this fine day?
[10:21] <MooDoo> bigcalm: sweet talk SuperMatt to take a look for you ;)
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> yeah, blame SuperMatt
[10:22] <brobostigon> mot bad MooDoo and you?
[10:23] <MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah ok thank, was in a ubuntu irc ops meeting last night and my brain is still mush :)
[10:23] <MooDoo> I blame AlanBell
[10:23] <brobostigon> mush, oh dear.
[10:23] <brobostigon> lol
[10:26] <bigcalm> Rebooting the cloud server has fixed it
[10:26] <bigcalm> This happening once might be dismissed. But twice in 3 days isn't good
[10:27] <bigcalm> MooDoo & MartijnVdS: I promised SuperMatt that I wouldn't talk to him about RS ;)
[10:27] <bigcalm> Oh, in case this is of interest to anybody who has missed our so far...
[10:27] <bigcalm> !rat
[10:28] <bashrc> morning
[10:28] <bigcalm> 7 peeps confirmed so far. Will be fun
[10:29] <bashrc> ale + trains + ubuntu.  What could go wrong?
[10:29] <bigcalm> And the public network connectivity has gone away again. Grr
[10:29] <MooDoo> bashrc: drinking too much then being sick over your laptop
[10:30] <MooDoo> bigcalm: are you sure it's not just user error?
[10:30] <MooDoo> ;)
[10:33] <bigcalm> Humf
[10:50] <bigcalm> multitail isn't showing mad traffic
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: is anyone looking at #1292069? :)
[10:55] <bigcalm> bug 1292069 ?
[10:55] <bigcalm> Rackspace's hold music is quite funky
[11:08] <bigcalm> multitail is cool!
[11:10] <bashrc> upgraded the server to kernel 3.13
[11:16] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:16] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:17] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: it looks like there was let me have a word latter
[11:17] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka how was your day in the end?
[11:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: ok till i went to the irc operators meeting, wow they work hard and fast lol
[11:19] <davmor2> MooDoo: you saying you don't work hard and fast normally?
[11:26] <MooDoo> davmor2: I've got two speeds slow and stop
[11:27] <bigcalm> Does anybody have a very simple script to check a website is accessible and email when it isn't?
[11:27] <diplo> I use Nagios to monitor ours, but probably had something in the past
[11:28] <diplo> Could use a simple bash to telnet to 80 and mail on fail ? or wget or something along those lines
[11:28] <bigcalm> diplo: that's what I was thinking. I don't have time to set up full monitoring. Just need something simple :)
[11:29] <bigcalm> http://www.howtoforge.com/simple-bash-script-to-monitor-your-webserver-remotely-on-different-ports for example
[11:30] <diplo> Pretty much what I was thinking in my head, albeit not so complex
[11:30] <diplo> :P
[11:31] <bigcalm> It does look a tiny bit ott
[11:31] <diplo> Don't RS offer some sort of monitoring ? Sure bitfolk had some nagios stuff
[11:31] <bigcalm> At a cost, sure
[11:31] <diplo> Well you could remove half the code and just have http
[11:31] <bigcalm> Yep
[11:32] <diplo> I think I got fedup maintaining different scripts and installed nagios from repos and had a basic setup 20 mins later
[11:32] <diplo> And it's advanced since then
[11:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: you could use selenium simple test and python and cron I gues
[11:38] <davmor2> s
[11:42] <bigcalm> Test in place, back to work I go
[11:57] <DJones> Hmmh, searching on google for a information about medical relapses brings up "Where to buy viagra in Kenya".... Seems an odd link
[12:24] <jussi> DJones: one day you will realise there are many odd things on the interwebs...
[12:25] <DJones> jussi: This is very true, where would the internet be without cat pictures
[12:26] <jussi> DJones: horrible thought, please dont mention it again :P
[13:22] <mapps> damn it's so windy and cold
[13:22] <mapps> when does 'summer' start
[13:22] <awilkins> Anyone know a way to get Git to calculate the hash of a tree that isn't in a git repo?
[13:23] <awilkins> You can do individual files
[13:23] <awilkins> git hash-object
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7225313/how-does-git-compute-file-hashes
[14:54] <MooDoo> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hello!
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> ooo
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> oo
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> o
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> .
[14:54] <brobostigon><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:55] <MooDoo> thought i was the only one here ;)
[14:56] <brobostigon><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:56] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: there's always SOMEONE watching
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:56] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i doubt it.
[14:59] <davmor2> MooDoo: you are the rest of us are in the matrix
[15:00] <MooDoo> davmor2: shush there can be only one
[15:00] <davmor2> MooDoo: wrong film that's the Highlander you fool :P
[15:00] <MooDoo> I know just shking it up a bit :D
[15:01] <MooDoo> gonna take the blue pill after i've chopped a few heads
[15:02]  * davmor2 paints a red pill blue and laughs all the way to bank
[15:05]  * davmor2 watches MooDoo run from agent smith for the rest of the day
[15:05] <MooDoo> yeeeehah
[15:07] <brobostigon> lol
[15:12] <Myrtti> http://www.mobilelinuxnews.com/2014/03/tech-meetup-london-uk-21th-march-jolla-tizen-ubuntu-firefoxos-meego/
[15:17] <popey> ooh
[15:17] <popey> i might go to that and "represent"
[15:24]  * davmor2 pictures popey in a back to front cap, big gold chain and rings, with a blinin' tooth when he says "Representin'"
[15:24] <davmor2> Respec to da popey
[15:49] <mapps> hm
[15:49] <davmor2> mapps: hummmm
[15:51] <mapps> its raining :(
[15:51] <mapps> was just hmming about that
[16:21] <Hornet> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7125985/ am I missing something here - grub just sits there awaiting manual selection rather than automatically booting the first entry?
[16:21] <Hornet> need a sanity check
[16:27] <mapps> yea i had the same too, had to add a line in to fix it
[16:28] <mapps> GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT="5"
[16:28] <mapps>  was what fixed it for me
[16:28] <Hornet> can't recall that in the docs
[16:28] <Hornet> sec
[16:33] <mapps> yea its not mentioned someone here gave me a url with it
[16:33] <mapps> sec
[16:34] <Hornet> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
[16:34] <Hornet> yeah, it's not there
[16:34] <mapps> http://askubuntu.com/questions/55551/how-can-i-force-ubuntu-to-boot-on-a-stuck-boot-menu
[16:34] <mapps> GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT=$GRUB_TIMEOUT
[16:34] <mapps> The fact that such option is completely undocumented is just too bad.
[16:34] <Hornet> ...wonderful
[16:35] <Hornet> well, added, will reboot and see what breaks
[16:35] <Hornet> thanks, brb
[16:35] <czajkowski> bigcalm: popey RAT tickets arrived :)
[16:36] <popey> yay
[16:37] <bigcalm> czajkowski: woo! glad you are joining us this year :)
[16:37] <Hornet> mapps: no change
[16:37] <bigcalm> popey: whom else came last year that might need reminding?
[16:37] <Hornet> still waits for user input
[16:38] <Hornet> and yes I updated grub
[16:38] <czajkowski> bigcalm: as long as no events get in the way I am
[16:38] <popey> bigcalm: i have told them
[16:38] <bigcalm> popey: oh, okay :)
[16:38] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I hope you keep your health as well!
[16:38] <popey> and again
[16:38] <bigcalm> czajkowski: in general, I hope you keep your health anyway :)
[16:38] <czajkowski> bigcalm: there is that :)
[16:38] <czajkowski> bigcalm: been rather sick since last week, so need some sunshine :)
[16:39] <czajkowski> I figure after conference season so September I should be good to go on hols :p
[16:39] <czajkowski> currently running 18 large events all over EMEA between 1st april and November 1st
[16:40] <bigcalm> It's a good job Hayley and I have our curse pre-booked and paid for already. There's no way I could see how I would squeeze it in this year otherwise
[16:40] <czajkowski> curse?
[16:40] <czajkowski> cruise?
[16:40] <bigcalm> The latter :)
[16:40] <popey> Going on a 2 week curse
[16:40] <czajkowski> some people do curse holidays so you never know
[16:40] <popey> sounds like UDS :D
[16:40] <bigcalm> Hehe
[16:40]  * czajkowski is meant to be going on a cruise
[16:40] <czajkowski> need to A_ find the time B) narrow down location
[16:40] <bigcalm> A week in the Norwegian Fjords
[16:41] <popey> B) The sea.
[16:41] <popey> my mum did that
[16:41] <popey> she loves norway
[16:41] <popey> her friend got very very very ill though
[16:41] <czajkowski> :(
[16:41] <popey> and came away with a 3K bill
[16:41] <bigcalm> Ouch
[16:41] <czajkowski> :o
[16:41] <popey> indeed
[16:41] <popey> not covered by insurance when at sea
[16:41] <czajkowski> ohhh not good
[16:41] <Hornet> if it's from another country then just don't pay?
[16:41] <Hornet> debt is a civil matter
[16:41] <bigcalm> We've gone for a completely pre-paid package, including drinks. Really hope there are no further expenses
[16:45] <popey> yeah, this was pre-paid too
[16:46] <popey> Hornet: they demanded the money on the boat
[16:46] <bigcalm> Ah, so the ill wasn't drunk ill. It was a medical matter that cost 3K
[16:46] <popey> yes
[16:46] <popey> 3K maybe over the top, might have been less than that
[16:46] <popey> cant remember
[16:46] <bigcalm> Even so
[16:53] <foobarry> was it a cruise?
[16:53] <foobarry> floating disease ships
[16:53] <foobarry> ah, read the scrollback
[17:05] <Hornet> popey: and they had 3k cash on them?!
[17:07] <popey> no
[17:21] <maps|wrk> hai
[19:49] <diddledan> bah @ crashing mac
[19:49] <diddledan> it done reboobed itself 'cos it kernel-paniced
[19:50] <maps|wrk> youve got a mac?
[19:50] <maps|wrk> :)
[19:50] <diddledan> yeah
[19:53] <diddledan> what the frak? http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Mar/332
[20:18] <daftykins> diddledan: indeed :( i read about that'un
[20:18] <diddledan> sucks
[20:22] <maps|wrk> sfw?
[20:23] <diddledan> sfw!
[20:24] <diddledan> maps|wrk: alternatively http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/19/full_disclosure_closes/
[20:27] <maps|wrk> just read - what was it? a list - how do you use lists? i come across them for various google searches linux related.
[20:27] <maps|wrk> but like how would you stay on top of it? or do you just have to know to check the list
[20:30] <diddledan> it's an email mailing list - you subscribe to the list and it emails you whenever anyone emails the list address
[20:31] <diddledan> whatever is sent to the mailing list email address is copied to each subscriber
[20:32] <daftykins> they always seemed like a good way to get very frustrated, to me XD
[20:32] <maps|wrk> ah but if you subscribed to a busy list wouldnt u get loads of emails?
[20:33] <diddledan> bingo
[20:33] <maps|wrk> heh
[20:33] <diddledan> most mailing list software can allow the subscriber to choose between email-for-email or daily-digest
[20:33] <diddledan> or turn off delivery altogether
[20:35] <diddledan> for further reading try ezmlm, mailman or majordomo - three different opensource mailing list manager software
[20:55] <maps|wrk> il have a look later, i hate it when i start getting too many emails..boring daily emails from zdnet/cnet etc
[20:55] <maps|wrk> then all the spam too ugh
[21:11] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[21:12] <daftykins> morning!?
[21:13] <bigcalm> I like it as my default greeting :)
[21:13] <diddledan> morning
[21:15] <bigcalm> Are you sure?
[21:25] <popey> hello bigcalm
[21:25] <popey> have you ever played openspades?
[21:25] <bigcalm> popey: can't say that I have
[21:25] <popey> you should, it's hilarious
[21:25] <bigcalm> I should look at installing this things
[21:25] <bigcalm> -s
[21:25] <popey> get wine, and the windows version
[21:25] <popey> it works really nicely
[21:29] <diddledan> why does my galaxy nexus insist on telling me that there's an update available for image 188 when I've already got image 188 installed?!
[21:30] <bigcalm> popey: okay, do you have a server running?
[21:30]  * bigcalm looks at playing locally 1st
[21:30] <popey> ooh
[21:30] <maps|wrk> the ubuntu uk site mentions happy hour and how it was meant to be a monthly thing , what happened to that? ;/
[21:31] <popey> people stopped organising them
[21:31] <popey> bigcalm: i will jump on a low-user server for now...
[21:31] <diddledan> happy hour?
[21:31] <diddledan> whassat?
[21:31] <popey> bigcalm: mcp-uk aos server #2
[21:31] <popey> has 0 users
[21:31]  * bigcalm searches
[21:31] <maps|wrk> diddledan:  http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
[21:32] <diddledan> aah. shame it stopped
[21:37] <ali1234> can you join the AA if you don't have a car?
[21:40] <maps|wrk> why would you want to
[21:41] <ali1234> because they have a policy that covers you as a passenger in any vehicle
[21:42] <popey> bigcalm: you still in the game?
[21:44] <bigcalm> popey: yes
[21:44] <popey> i got disconnected
[21:44] <bigcalm> Arse
[21:44] <popey> bigcalm: join MCP-UK AoS server #1 hallway 24/7
[21:44] <popey> its fun
[21:44] <bigcalm> I was stuck in the river, making my way to you
[21:44] <bigcalm> Okay
[21:49] <popey> bah, i suck at that game ☻
[21:53] <diddledan> omg, chromecast is available in blighty! http://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/chrome/devices/chromecast/index.html
[21:56] <bigcalm> popey: that was fun indeed
[22:00] <daftykins> i noticed the other day my Nexus 4's YouTube app has a 'pair with your TV' option that lets you remotely play things onto it :O
[22:00] <daftykins> (smart TV with a YouTube app built-in/installable)
[22:03]  * bigcalm forces himself to listen to his boss' podcast and tries not to fall asleep
[22:03] <popey> daftykins: yeah, i paired my devices and laptop with my xbox 360
[22:03] <popey> not got a "smart" tv
[22:04] <daftykins> :)
[22:04] <daftykins> my 360 is quite loud at idle in my setup :(
[22:04] <daftykins> that thing can't powergate either so it's running 100% all the time
[22:07] <bigcalm> Playing podcasts faster in vlc sounds weird
[22:07] <bigcalm> What do peeps uses to listen to podcasts at faster than normal rate?
[22:09] <bigcalm> Might get used to it actually. Voices sound normal, just quicker
[22:12] <popey> i used to listen on my iphone quite a bit
[22:12] <popey> at 2x speed
[22:14] <maps|wrk> bigcalm:  why do you want to listen quicker than normal? super slow speaker or something?!
[22:15] <bigcalm> maps|wrk: content I'm not really that interested in but feel I should listen to
[22:26] <popey> maps|wrk: consumes half the time of course
[22:28] <maps|wrk> what podcasts do you all follow?
[22:29] <popey> i dont much anymore
[23:19] <maps|wrk> hmm
[23:19] <maps|wrk> bored bored bored
[23:19] <maps|wrk> been reading stuff off the IBM developer zone
[23:51] <maps|wrk_> hm
[23:51] <maps|wrk_> seem to have lost the other client
[23:53] <diddledan> buggerance
[23:53] <diddledan> sorry, family friendly!
[23:53]  * diddledan self-censures
[23:57] <daftykins> get the sedative...
[23:57] <maps|wrk_> oh now everyone wakes up
[23:57] <maps|wrk_> hi diddledan
[23:58] <maps|wrk_> hi daftykins
[23:58] <daftykins> hehe
[23:58] <daftykins> my battery is gone actually
[23:58] <daftykins> seconds from death
[23:59] <maps|wrk_> plug it in?!:)