[01:59] <zul> you guys are quiet
[02:02] <imbrandon> shhhh we're hunting ponies
[02:02] <ryanakca> Anyone have some spare time on their hands... to help me learn package building... or guide me in the right direction & answer some questions? If its not too much of a hassle...
[02:02] <ryanakca> I mean... if you'd rather hunt ponies... thats fine..
[02:02] <ryanakca> LOL
[02:03] <imbrandon> lol i would help you but i'm just learning myself, chek out the debian new maintainers guide though its very good
[02:03] <ryanakca> yeah... I'm reading it... just that I don't understand some things
[02:04] <ryanakca> like patching... I know what it is... just not how...
[02:04] <ajmitch> afternoon
[02:04] <zul> evening
[02:04] <ryanakca> night
[02:05] <_ion> ryanakca: Here's an example of how to begin creating a package: wget -N http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/packaging_rumor.{timing,script} && scriptreplay packaging_rumor.{timing,script}
[02:05] <ryanakca> ummm... I'm lost :)
[02:06] <ryanakca> I can make a basic .deb with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot / dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot
[02:06] <ryanakca> just the patching...
[02:18] <LaserJock> ajmitch: have you pushed any bzr branches to bazaar.launchpad.net?
[02:23] <ajmitch> no, I haven't yet
[02:23] <LaserJock> hmm, I tried, but it said "Parent directory does not exist"
[02:23] <LaserJock> oh well
[02:27] <Toadstool> re
[02:30] <LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes, I can't get bzr push to do anything. I don't understand how it is supposed to be used for anything
[02:30] <Toadstool> :)
[02:31] <LaserJock> well, I like bzr for local things, but every time I try to do anything remotely I just end up using rsync or scp
[02:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ask in #bzr
[02:32] <ajmitch> 12:30 < spiv> siretart: the url for pushing to bazaar.launchpad.net is sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~USER/PRODUCT/BRANCH, where USER is your launchpad nick, PRODUCT is the name of a product registered in
[02:32] <ajmitch>               launchpad (or +junk for no product), BRANCH is the name for this branch.
[02:33] <LaserJock> right
[02:33] <LaserJock> did that
[02:33] <LaserJock> can't even push to my other box
[02:33] <Toadstool> LaserJock: yeah right, I'm moving to bzr for the packages i'm working on for edgy on the other hand ;)
[02:35] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I didn't say ask *me* in there :)
[02:35] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:35] <Toadstool> er, speaking about packages for edgy, I feel like I'm not that efficient... :/ one full day on a python lib package...  WTF? ;-)
[03:13] <havoc> specifically cooker
[03:13] <havoc> their dev distro
[03:13] <LaserJock> I think I used mandrake for all of 10 mins
[03:13] <havoc> so I'm used to having a ton of bleeding edge crap installed
[03:13] <ajmitch> so run edgy
[03:13] <ajmitch> it should be bleeding & raw
[03:13] <bddebian> I was just going to say that :-)
[03:13] <havoc> ajmitch: is that what I have to do to get the latest firefox?
[03:14] <ajmitch> define 'latest;
[03:14] <havoc> current "release"
[03:14] <havoc> <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:14] <ajmitch> you mean instead of the <IP_ADDRESS> in dapper?
[03:14] <havoc> how "stable" is edgy?
[03:14] <havoc> ajmitch: yes
[03:14] <ajmitch> edgy is not stable, usable, or installable
[03:15] <ajmitch> and <IP_ADDRESS> will be in dapper :P
[03:15] <tseng> install it in a chroot if you must
[03:15] <tseng> but you wont get anywhere
[03:15] <havoc> ajmitch: ah, so there are updates to certain apps
[03:15] <ajmitch> havoc: yes
[03:15] <havoc> tseng: heh, ok
[03:15] <ajmitch> they're called security fixes
[03:15] <havoc> ajmitch: ok, that's what I wanted to know
[03:15] <ajmitch> and updates
[03:15] <LaserJock> and backports
[03:15] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[03:15] <tseng> hi
[03:15] <havoc> still wasn't going to stop me from installing it
[03:15] <tseng> good luck with that
[03:16] <ajmitch> we're not going to throw dapper out the door & ignore it for security
[03:16] <havoc> but it's nice to know that at least one little thing won't piss me off :)
[03:16] <tseng> hope you dont have amd64
[03:16] <ajmitch> tseng: that's easily fixable
[03:16] <havoc> tseng: I meant installing dapper
[03:16] <tseng> oh
[03:16] <havoc> now finally chillywilly will get off my case ;)
[03:17] <havoc> I'm also trying to lighten my work load by standardizing all the nix boxen I maintain
[03:17] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, supposedly Dapper universe is completely unsupported so I wouldn't count on any -security or -updates action ;-)
[03:17] <havoc> hell, I'm even standardizing the windows boxes
[03:17] <bddebian> Vista Beta 2? ;-P
[03:17] <havoc> soemone package zoneminder ;)
[03:18] <havoc> bddebian: ack
[03:18] <ajmitch> havoc: you've been here long enough to learn how :)
[03:18] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ha. ha. ha.
[03:18] <bddebian> heh
[03:18] <havoc> bddebian: no, getting all the family members to use XP, makes my job of free support easier :|
[03:18] <havoc> ajmitch: haha, not yet
[03:18] <havoc> but soon
[03:19] <LaserJock> bye bye ajmitch
[03:19] <ajmitch> let me get something into dapper-updates...
[03:20] <havoc> I was in #kubuntu, but they were driving me nutz
[03:20] <bddebian> Hmm, I might have to hide too
[03:20] <LaserJock> from me?
[03:20] <bddebian> No, from getting kicked off the channel :-)
[03:20] <LaserJock> doh, I don't think so
[03:20] <havoc> you guys just had a release, it's summer, relax a bit ;)
[03:21] <ajmitch> we can't relax
[03:21] <LaserJock> no, we gotta get ready for Edgy
[03:21] <ajmitch> we're too on edge
[03:21] <bddebian> LaserJock: I am not sure I've uploaded in the last two weeks?
[03:21] <LaserJock> Monday is the deadline for specs
[03:21] <LaserJock> bddebian: I think you have, haven't you?
[03:21] <havoc> the wife and I are taking our 2nd vacation in 7yrs next week
[03:21] <havoc> yay :)
[03:22] <ajmitch> bddebian: you're safe till tuesday
[03:22] <LaserJock> I know I'm toast
[03:25] <LaserJock> I suck as a MOTU
[03:25] <tseng> you only get deactivated after a year or two of sucking
[03:25] <LaserJock> yeah, yeah
[03:25] <tseng> i believe
[03:25] <bddebian> Hmm
[03:25] <ajmitch> LP team membership is for 2 years
[03:27] <LaserJock> ok, I'm going home
[03:27] <ajmitch> bye
[03:27] <LaserJock> I think I might even close my irssi
[03:27] <havoc> later :)
[03:27] <bddebian> Later LaserJock
[03:27] <LaserJock> cya all
[03:30] <havoc> soon all the machines will be debina, ubuntu, or winxp, and my life will become much easier...for a time
[04:17] <bddebian> Heya crimsun_
[05:38] <LaserJock> Is the Paris summit not going to have a cool nick name?
[05:41] <Amaranth> LaserJock: UbuntuOnFire? :/
[05:42] <NthDegree> lol
[05:42] <LaserJock> well, we had UbuntuFrenchKiss
[05:43] <LaserJock> but I don't think that is offical ;-)
[05:43] <NthDegree> that's as bad as saying we should be called the motubators :\
[05:44] <bddebian> hehe
[05:46] <NthDegree> i just hope when I fix up kubuntu wih lilo that it doesn't go putting it in the MBR :(
[05:49] <bluefoxicy> ok guys
[05:49] <bluefoxicy> what do I do with this.. thing... I have?
[05:49] <bluefoxicy> I made a package.
[05:50] <bluefoxicy> I can tar it up and submit it somewhere ...   Making Gentoo ebuilds was far easier than this ;P
[05:53] <Lathiat> with cdbs and most modern packaging systems i've found it relatively easy
[05:54] <bluefoxicy> Lathiat:  CDBS? Code to Do the BS?
[05:56] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: well, I hope the Ubuntu packaging guide is a bit easier to read
[05:56] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I'll look at it later.
[05:57] <bluefoxicy> The debian one is a monster of technowhatsis and no real hand-holding.. once someone walks you through it it's easy but damn if the docs aren't murderous.
[05:57] <LaserJock> Lathiat: hopefully the Edgy version of the packaging guide will do CDBS better justice
[05:58] <bluefoxicy> Bug in the CDBS guide:  It uses more profanity than me in one sentence
[06:00] <LaserJock> which CDBS guide?
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> Also I love how they say not to use KDE
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> awesome, I got it rewritten with CDBS now.  That was WAY easier.
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> now does anyone want to give me a hint on htf to make this damn thing sign with my gpg key
[06:10] <bddebian> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> ok
[06:11] <LaserJock> is the same name and address that is used for your key in the changelog?
[06:11] <bddebian> Or debuild
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> will it use my default key or base it on the maintainer field or what?
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> yes.
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> it's... not asking...
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:/tmp/x/pax-utils/pax-utils-0.1.13$ dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -uc -us -rfakeroot
[06:12] <LaserJock> don't use -uc or -us
[06:12] <bddebian> -us means unsigned source
[06:12] <LaserJock> that tells it to not sign
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> oh
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> I'm dumb.
[06:14] <bluefoxicy> it's the same e-mail addy buti t doesn't like it
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I am ... not sure I did this correctly.
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> Files:
[06:30] <bluefoxicy>  ac01f406bcb831cbf9e0e1f54770a679 262 devel optional pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc
[06:30] <bluefoxicy>  894252f3e5aa1468e755ba34afa7705f 204679 devel optional pax-utils_0.1.13.tar.gz
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> these files were both just generated
[06:30] <LaserJock> good
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> that's... normal right?
[06:30] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> the original source is a .bz2
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> ok.
[06:30] <LaserJock> is this a brand new package
[06:31] <bluefoxicy> yes
[06:31] <LaserJock> ok, so you should use debuild -S -sa
[06:31] <bluefoxicy> I'm a brand new packager aren't i?  :)
[06:31] <bluefoxicy> I did that
[06:31] <LaserJock> oh yeah, i see that
[06:31] <LaserJock> you made a Debian native package
[06:32] <LaserJock> which is what you use if the package is specific to Ubuntu
[06:32] <LaserJock> but you probably don't want that
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> well, all I did was pretty much slap a rules file into debian/rules and mess with changelog and control
[06:33] <NthDegree> i'm slacking right now :) that's my excuse
[06:33] <LaserJock> what did you call the tarball
[06:34] <bluefoxicy> what tarball :)
[06:34] <LaserJock> the original tarball
[06:35] <bluefoxicy> the original source is http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/pax/pax-utils-0.1.13.tar.bz2
[06:35] <bluefoxicy> so I guess basename that.
[06:35] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure about .bz2 tarballs
[06:36] <LaserJock> anyway, you should copy that tarball to pax-utils_0.1.13.orig.tar.bz2
[06:36] <bluefoxicy> in the parent directory?
[06:36] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> Build-Depends: cdbs
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> Standards-Version: <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> from control in the source area... wtf is standards-version
[06:37] <LaserJock> they version of the Debian Policy that the package adheres to
[06:38] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: don't do that
[06:40] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: really, if you read the Ubuntu Packaging Guide it should help
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  honestly it's 12:34 am, I'd rather bug you unless you're busy and I'm keeping you from work :)
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> But I guess I should.
[06:41] <LaserJock> it least take a look
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> link?
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> packaging tips has links to the new debian maintainer's guide
[06:41] <LaserJock> http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[06:42] <LaserJock> yeah, don't worry about wiki pages
[06:46] <bluefoxicy> will try this but I don't feel any surer of wtf i'm doing.
[06:47] <LaserJock> hehe, just keep with it, it'll start to make sense after a while
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> yeah it.. made a .gz with everything in it.
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> they're right.. this distribution is really dirty  :/
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I should have a .dsc and a .dsc.asc and a .gz and that's it right?
[06:52] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: no, you should have a .dsc, a diff.tgz, and a .orig.tar.gz
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> dammit what the hell.
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> does this not work with bzip2 tarballs
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> I can pipeline it to gzip
[06:52] <LaserJock> it might not I can't remember exactly
[06:53] <LaserJock> but get rid of the old stuff
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> bzcat pax-utils_0.1.13.orig.tar.bz2 | gzip > pax-utils_0.1.13.orig.tar.gz
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> ok i got a diff now.
[06:55] <LaserJock> k
[06:55] <LaserJock> zless it to see what is in there
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> pax-utils-0.1.13  pax-utils_0.1.13.diff.gz  pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc  pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc.asc  pax-utils_0.1.13.orig.tar.gz  pax-utils-0.1.13.tar.bz2
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> that's my directory now
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> it's correct.
[06:57] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  now what the hell do I do with it
[06:57] <LaserJock> yeah, that looks good
[06:57] <LaserJock> well, you can build it into a .deb
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> from the dsc?
[06:58] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> command?
[06:58] <LaserJock> do you have a pbuilder setup? I'm guessing no
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> no
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> I do this on a hot system
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> I have no care for chrooting it (ironicly)
[06:58] <LaserJock> you should do it on a pbuilder eventually
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> I should
[06:59] <LaserJock> in the mean time ...
[06:59] <bluefoxicy> right now I don't have libsafe so I'm not worried about it flipping out and killing someone like RPM does
[06:59] <tritium> yeah, to make sure it won't ftbfs
[06:59] <bluefoxicy> (rpm makes shit depend on libsafe if libsafe is installed)
[07:00] <LaserJock> if you have the build deps run debuild and it will produce a .deb
[07:01] <LaserJock> you sure? how did you build the source package? dpkg-buildpackage?
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> I know this one .. it's ... umm.  something.... d.... no I have no clue what the pakcage is
[07:01] <LaserJock> devscripts
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> yeah, dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
[07:01] <LaserJock> do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot then
[07:02] <bluefoxicy> buildpackage going.
[07:02] <bluefoxicy> mmmm....... that didn't give me a .deb
[07:03] <LaserJock> what did it give you
[07:03] <bluefoxicy> nothing except a bunch of files caused by 'make'
[07:04] <LaserJock> hmm?
[07:04] <bluefoxicy> in the source tree, it spewed files around etc but just didn't build a package out of them
[07:04] <LaserJock> how do you know?
[07:04] <bluefoxicy> also -tc does not build packages
[07:05] <bluefoxicy> err.  does not clean the files
[07:05] <bluefoxicy> I looked in the source tree when it was done, how else would I know
[07:05] <LaserJock> did you look in ../
[07:05] <bluefoxicy> notihng's in ../ except .dsc and .dsc.asc
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> I think I did something wrong.
[07:07] <LaserJock> hmm, did you get any errors from debuild ?
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> trying again
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
[07:10] <LaserJock> ok
[07:10] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> "The postinst and prerm files are examples of maintainer scripts. They are shell scripts that are executed after installation and before removal, respectively, of the package. In the case of the Ubuntu hello package, they are used to install (and remove) the info file."  <-- this is why I hate modern package management.
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  no instructions on making 'files', hintcoin?
[07:13] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: I gotta go to bed so this is the last thing I can give you
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> ok
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> I should sleep too really
[07:14] <LaserJock> well actually I'm not exactly sure since I don't know what your rules file looks like
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> very simple
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> DEB_MAKE_CLEAN_TARGET    := distclean
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET    := all
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET  := install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/pax-utils
[07:15] <LaserJock> I'd just read through the pacakging guide and also read the dpkg man page and look at what dpkg-genchanges expects
[07:15] <bluefoxicy> well the packaging guide didn't seem to mention files..
[07:16] <bluefoxicy> http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html but you can check later.
[07:16] <LaserJock> probably for a reason
[07:16] <bluefoxicy> go to sleep.
[07:16] <bluefoxicy> i should sleep too.
[07:32] <bluefoxicy> SOMEBODY HELP ME.  *assumes innocent look*
[07:33] <ajmitch> bluefoxicy: try adding "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk"
[07:33] <bluefoxicy> thanks.
[07:33] <ajmitch> currently you'll have no debian(or ubuntu) specific stuff to make a package out of what you're building
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> uh.
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> it gave me a gpg error?  o_O
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> otherwise worked
[07:36] <ajmitch> because the changelog email address & the gpg key don't match?
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> no, because it did something wrong.
[07:36] <ajmitch> 'something wrong' isn't descriptive enough
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> it spewed out "enter passphrase:" and then spewed out an error about /tmp/seahorse
[07:36] <ajmitch> fun
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> and I got confused like "is it going to ask for my... oh"
[07:37] <ajmitch> sounds like you're trying to use some agent & it's failing
[07:37] <bluefoxicy> so I enter my passphrase and it says "ohshit gpg error sry" and dies.
[07:37] <bluefoxicy> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
[07:37] <bluefoxicy> ok that time it spit them out in the correct order and it didn't work
[07:37] <bluefoxicy> I didn't tell it to use any agent, and it straight asks for my pass phrase.
[07:38] <bluefoxicy> If it could say something more descriptive than "gpg error occurred!" I could fix it.
[07:39] <bluefoxicy> brb I need another shirly temple
[07:39] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  otherwise it's working now.
[07:39] <ajmitch> good
[07:40] <ajmitch> though it still needs to be signed before upload to REVU
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> signing worked before.
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> I have no idea why it broke now.
[07:40] <ajmitch> and you need to have your key in REVU's upload keyring
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> the site says I don't need to get my key signed.
[07:40] <ajmitch> that is correct
[07:40] <ajmitch> but it does say you need to send the key
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> apparently I have to send it up anyway?
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> ok
[07:41] <ajmitch> and I assume you'll have yours signed
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> (i thought the key was just to get access to log in for comments)
[07:41] <ajmitch> no, mini-dinstall uses the upload keyring to accept uploads
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  it signs the .dsc if I build with dpkg-buildpkg -S -sa -rfakeroot
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> if I build with debuild it doesn't sign the resulting deb.
[07:43] <ajmitch> you need to have the .dsc & .changes signed
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> ok
[07:44] <ajmitch> if you have GPG_AGENT_INFO in the environment, it'll use it
[07:44] <ajmitch> I can't see how else it's getting /tmp/seahorse..
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> negatory.
[07:44] <ajmitch> you can just try with debsign alone, on the .changes file
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> dpkg-buildpackage, what's the command I want
[07:45] <ajmitch> ?
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> I'm going to build the debs over again but not use debuild
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> to see if it's a bug in debuild
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> apparently dpkg-buildpackage is not having any trouble signing the .dsc
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> (yes it bitches about seahorse too)
[07:46] <ajmitch> it would be a bug in debsign rather than debuild, if there were any
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> well it works with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot, or at least doesn't complain.  DOes the signature go straight into the .deb?
[07:48] <ajmitch> no
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> then it's not working.
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> nor is it complaining.
[07:55] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I think it just likes seahorse.  >:(  I installed it and it started magically using it
[07:56] <ajmitch> crazy
[07:56] <bluefoxicy> this is freakish
[07:56] <bluefoxicy> it says problems with the agent with debuild, and then gpg fails
[07:56] <bluefoxicy> with dpkg-buildpkg -rfakeroot the seahorse agent pops up and asks me to authorize key signature use
[07:56] <bluefoxicy> I wonder wtf the difference is.
[08:00] <bluefoxicy> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
[08:00] <bluefoxicy> OH REALLY, WHERE ARE THE .asc FILES THEN
[08:00] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  get me the beating stick.
[08:01] <bluefoxicy> oh it's inline.
[08:07] <bluefoxicy> ok well now I have to find that page again since firefox crashed (it does that a lot)
[08:09] <Hobbsee> hi all
[08:10] <bluefoxicy> man now I have to fish for my keyid
[08:10] <bluefoxicy> this is retarded.
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> got it
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  why do I have to put my keyid in the e-mail anyway?
[08:12] <bluefoxicy> besides so I have to go look and see what it is
[08:13] <ajmitch> as if that's hard
[08:13] <bluefoxicy> eh, it changes a 3 second process to a 15 second one but not particularly.
[08:13] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: say something nice in the email, or he might jump on you :P
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> it's 2:07 am, I am not obligated to be nice.  I've been nice all day, except I've been trying to build a tiny package since 10pm and I'm frustrated or something
[08:14] <Hobbsee> oh, so that was reserved for me, got it.
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> hehe
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> yes he's more likely to jump a girl ;P
[08:15] <Hobbsee> hush you!
[08:16] <bluefoxicy> I still want to know why ubuntu is so dirty compared to debian... though thusfar I'm not having any trouble besides with libgcrypt.so.11, which I fixed by simply killing the PT_GNU_STACK setting.
[08:17] <bluefoxicy> it makes no logical sense that there'd be so many W|X mappings strewn around on a debian derivative.
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> what the crap
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> there's no ld.so.conf
[08:19] <bluefoxicy> how the hell... no, screw it, I don't care.
[08:22] <bluefoxicy> gzip I've got a fix for already (don't use hand-written assembly)
[08:23] <bluefoxicy> RWX --- ---   /lib/klibc-t2jM36h7OcxUNTDzncfER2p7kd4.so  <-- what the crap is that
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> textrels everywhere *sigh*
[08:29] <bluefoxicy> alright, I'm done for the night.
[08:30] <Hobbsee> night bluefoxicy
[08:30] <bluefoxicy> if anyone wants to see the output from this I'll rafb it in a minute
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/pax-utils.xml and http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/gnu-stack.xml are good reads
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> And pretty much spell out why I'm packaging this thing
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> Only worth reading if you're into security stuff though.
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/bzsFEw53.html  Bading.  Sleep time.
[09:16] <swarog> morning
[09:17] <siretart> morning
[09:17] <ajmitch> hi
[09:17] <ajmitch> how are you siretart?
[09:18] <phanatic> morning
[09:18] <ajmitch> hi phanatic
[09:18] <phanatic> hi ajmitch
[09:20] <siretart> ajmitch: I'm okay. just arrived at work
[09:20] <siretart> ajmitch: and you? how's your SoC project coming along?
[09:20] <ajmitch> coming along ok :)
[09:21] <ajmitch> I'm doing well enough
[09:21] <siretart> :)
[09:21] <ajmitch> considering what I'll do for the server side
[09:22] <ajmitch> whether to make it flexible enough in eggy to accomodate configuring samba4 (has its own ldap/kerberos server)
[09:22] <ajmitch> s/eggy/edgy/
[09:23] <phanatic> ajmitch: your project sounds really interesting :)
[09:23] <ajmitch> I've done the manual client & server setup
[09:23] <ajmitch> now it's mainly coding & packaging to do
[09:25] <Hobbsee> nice work :)
[09:25] <siretart> ajmitch: how do you manage user and group accounts in ldap? what front end do you use for adding new users?
[09:25] <ajmitch> siretart: that comes under the coding & packaging part ;)
[09:25] <Hobbsee> hehe - eggy.  i wonder just how many people write the wrong distro in their changelogs when uploading things...
[09:25] <swarog> phart
[09:25] <ajmitch> currently I've been testing with a kde app called luma
[09:25] <ajmitch> which seems to be fairly useful
[09:25] <siretart> it's not really kde, it's 'just' qt..
[09:26] <ajmitch> I *may* need to write something simple with pygtk to replace the gnome 1.x app directory-administrator
[09:26] <siretart> but we deployed it at the internet cafe I was adminning.
[09:26] <ajmitch> right
[09:26] <ajmitch> same thing
[09:26] <ajmitch> ;)
[09:26] <spacey> we use luma as well
[09:26] <spacey> on inregular basis
[09:27] <ajmitch> I have to make sure that I get all the ldap&kerberos stuff to work together for user management though
[09:27] <siretart> ajmitch: say, IIUC, when adding a new user, you need to add it to both ldap and add a kerberos principal, no? AFAIK luma can only do the former..
[09:27] <ajmitch> siretart: what do you use for the kerberos side of things?
[09:27] <ajmitch> yeah, that's my problem
[09:27] <swarog> winbind?
[09:27] <siretart> ajmitch: I never touched kerberos yet. thats why I'm asking
[09:27] <ajmitch> right :)
[09:27] <siretart> :)
[09:27] <spacey> ajmitch if you write something up please let me know :>
[09:28] <ajmitch> spacey: sure, I know ogra will love something for edubuntu
[09:28] <ajmitch> infinity is considering throwing a samba4 beta into edgy if it's near usable
[09:28] <siretart> not only for edubuntu. some ppl would sell such a solution as the 'holy grail'
[09:28] <spacey> i will love it too
[09:28] <ajmitch> so that may be fun to play with for AD stuff
[09:28] <ajmitch> siretart: yes, I saw some posts on the forums (sigh) about what ubuntu needs for the enterprise :)
[09:28] <siretart> samba4 will never be usuable. that's because of their development model
[09:29] <siretart> it's more likely that someone backports the AD specific features from samba4 and calls it samba-ad-killer or somethin
[09:29] <ajmitch> some nice setup can be done to integrate all these pieces for the small business
[09:29] <siretart> g
[09:30] <ajmitch> tight integration needed though
[09:30] <ajmitch> like DNS, mail, etc
[09:30] <ajmitch> getting to the 'just works' stage of setting up a fully ubuntu network would be wonderful
[09:32] <siretart> that's not easy
[09:32] <ajmitch> it's not
[09:32] <ajmitch> something to work on over a few releases, or as a separate product
[09:33] <ajmitch> it can be worth it though
[09:35] <TomaszD> hey guys, since the gnome packages are on a permanent UVFe, will we sooner or later see NM 0.6.3 in dapper-updates? :)
[09:35] <ajmitch> TomaszD: no
[09:35] <TomaszD> ajmitch, no? why not.
[09:35] <ajmitch> or I should say 'very, very very unlikely'
[09:35] <TomaszD> shame then.
[09:36] <TomaszD> btw is Firefox <IP_ADDRESS> going to hit updates? I'm quite concerned with all the security holes it patches...
[09:36] <ajmitch> because it's not just a simple bugfix
[09:36] <ajmitch> <IP_ADDRESS> will be
[09:36] <TomaszD> ok
[09:37] <ajmitch> mainly because it's near impossible to separate out security from other patches in it
[09:37] <TomaszD> oh, so that's the point.
[09:37] <TomaszD> but the gnome packages are being updated regardless what they fix
[09:37] <TomaszD> no?
[09:37] <ajmitch> no
[09:38] <TomaszD> I've seen evince, epiphany and such being updated, none AFAIK were security updated
[09:38] <TomaszD> oh well
[09:38] <TomaszD> just being curious
[09:38] <ajmitch> that's -updates, not -security
[09:38] <ajmitch> and N-M is not in GNOME anyway
[09:38] <TomaszD> it's on the GNOME ftp server
[09:39] <TomaszD> so I thought it is
[09:39] <ajmitch> so is f-spot
[09:39] <ajmitch> and 1000 other apps :)
[09:39] <TomaszD> good point
[09:39] <TomaszD> :)
[09:39] <ajmitch> GNOME is only getting 2.14.x updates anyway
[09:39] <ajmitch> and that was planned out carefully before release
[09:40] <TomaszD> and that is a good thing, since you can satisfy the bleeding edgers for a slight moment
[09:40] <TomaszD> ;)
[09:40] <ajmitch> ubuntu's N-M carries a few patches that would have to be carefully tested & ported forward if necessary
[09:49] <dholbach> good morning motu world
[09:49] <ajmitch> hey dholbach
[09:49] <ajmitch> how are you?
[09:49] <dholbach> hey ajmitch, fine -- how are you?
[09:49] <ajmitch> good :)
[09:50] <dholbach> cool
[09:55] <phanatic> morning dholbach
[09:55] <dholbach> hey phanatic
[10:15] <crimsun_> mm edgy breakage!
[10:16] <ajmitch> yay!
[10:18] <siretart> DarkMageZ: should be autosync'ed soon
[10:18] <ajmitch> DarkMageZ: that'll come later, once syncs/merges are underway
[10:18] <ajmitch> it's unmodified in dapper, so should be autosynced
[10:18] <DarkMageZ> syncing with debian... they need to upgrade
[10:18] <ajmitch> then hassle debian :)
[10:19] <DarkMageZ> or i should learn how to package properly, and become the ubuntu maintainer, so we can have 0.65 :)
[10:19] <ajmitch> we prefer not to get ahead unnecessarily, since we have to then take the bugs in the face...
[10:20] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[10:21] <DarkMageZ> my main wish is that they fix bug #30447
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30447 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "Lockup problems with both the free xorg ATI driver and the proprietary fglrx driver, using various ATI cards" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30447
[10:21] <siretart> hey \sh
[10:22] <\sh> moins
[10:26] <ajmitch> hey pygi
[10:26] <pygi> hey ajmitch
[10:35] <Toadstool> hi motus
[11:25] <xerxas> Hi
[11:26] <xerxas> I cannot connect to a wpa secured access point with network-manager but can with wpa_supplicant
[11:26] <xerxas> what should I do ?
[11:26] <xerxas> report a bug ?
[11:28] <\sh> xerxas: network manager is using wpa_supplicant as far as I can see...which release are you using?
[11:30] <xerxas> dapper
[11:30] <pygi> that would probably be 0.6.2
[11:30] <xerxas> \sh: I'm at work right now , I don't have my ubuntu here
[11:31] <xerxas> I need to trace the problem
[11:31] <pygi> xerxas, you must have wpa_supplicating to connect to wpa secured access point with network manager :P
[11:31] <xerxas> but I wanted to know if this is usefull
[11:31] <xerxas> pygi: Yes I know
[11:31] <xerxas> I think it's a problem with wpa_supplicant integration within network-manager:
[11:31] <xerxas> I have an ipw2100
[11:32] <xerxas> wpa_supplicant doesn't want to associate with the access point with -Dipw
[11:32] <pygi> ipw2100 works perfectly for most people
[11:32] <pygi> xerxas, anyway, this is not the right channel
[11:32] <xerxas> I need to use -Dwext
[11:32] <pygi> go to #ubuntu, and if they cant help you fix it, file a bug
[11:32] <xerxas> I think network-manager wants to use -Diwp
[11:33] <xerxas> ipw
[11:33] <xerxas> pygi: I managed to fix it (not in network-manager but manually )
[11:33] <xerxas> pygi: I think I can fix it with network-manager scripts
[11:33] <xerxas> but I didn't investigated yet
[11:33] <xerxas> pygi: should I report that as a bug ?
[11:34] <pygi> xerxas, do as you want...if it's not a bug, we'll drop it :P
[11:34] <xerxas> (need to gather more information before , and will try to fix it )
[11:34] <xerxas> pygi: seems to be a bug
[11:34] <xerxas> or a configuration problem
[11:34] <xerxas> the thing is , breezy have older drivers, ipw2100 switched to wireless extension with newer kernel
[11:34] <xerxas> network-manager needs to follow the switch
[11:45] <xerxas> when will edgy developpement start ?
[11:46] <xerxas> I don't think I will report this bug as a dapper one
[11:48] <kelmo> gday ;-)
[12:34] <pianoboy3333> I seem to be having interesting problems with dpkg, can someone look at this: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1114386
[12:37] <ajmitch> file a bug on dpkg against it
[12:37] <ajmitch> hm
[12:38] <ajmitch> looks like there is one
[12:38] <ajmitch> bug 46530
[12:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46530 in blt "process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46530
[12:39] <pianoboy3333> oh
[12:39] <pianoboy3333> good
[12:43] <pianoboy3333> ajmitch: it also says if you read that code thing there, that I have one package that is not fully installed or removed, how can I find that one?
[12:43] <ajmitch> dpkg --configure -a
[12:43] <ajmitch> still gives you that error, I see
[12:43] <pianoboy3333> yes
[12:44] <ajmitch> great..
[12:44] <pianoboy3333> :)
[12:46] <pianoboy3333> :)
[01:35] <zul> hey
[03:08] <phanatic> afternoon
[03:08] <Hobbsee> hey phanatic
[03:08] <phanatic> heya Hobbsee :)
[03:28] <havoc> hmm, morning here
[03:28] <havoc> and I still don't have ubuntu installed :|
[03:28] <Hobbsee> almost midnight here
[03:28] <havoc> (still backing stuff up)
[03:29] <havoc> was closer to 80GB than 58GB, and I ran out of room :(
[03:35] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[03:37] <phanatic> hi Kyral
[03:37] <phanatic> Kyral: no freebsd now? :)
[03:37] <phanatic> hey dholbach
[03:39] <Kyral> phanatic: the machine is still running but I'm not logged in
[03:39] <phanatic> Kyral: oh, i see...
[03:39] <Kyral> FreeBSD == spare lab machine
[03:39] <Kyral> as is the Hurd machine I have going :D
[03:44] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:45] <Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
[03:45] <bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
[03:45] <phanatic> heya bddebian, Gloubiboulga :)
[03:45] <Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic
[03:46] <bddebian> Heya phanatic
[03:46] <Toadstool> hi bddebian
[03:46] <bddebian> Hi Toadstool
[03:57] <Toadstool> ping a revu admin... siretart or ajmitch maybe?
[04:09] <cbx33> ping ajmitch
[04:11] <cbx33> ping Mithrandir
[04:11] <havoc> yay, can finally start the install
[04:11] <Hobbsee> cbx33: he's probably asleep by now
[04:11] <cbx33> ah ok
[04:11] <cbx33> thanks Hobbsee
[04:11] <Hobbsee> it's gone 2am there now
[04:17] <phanatic> hey raphink
[04:18] <raphink> hey phanatic
[04:18] <raphink> I wanted to talk to you lately
[04:18] <raphink> some infos you might be interested in
[04:18] <phanatic> raphink: great, just pm me :)
[04:18] <pygi> raphink, the conference stuff? :P
[04:19] <raphink> yes
[04:19] <raphink> there's a low cost company from Nice to Budapest
[04:19] <pygi> raphink, ah
[04:19] <raphink> might be interesting
[04:20] <pygi> how much $?
[04:20] <pygi> and how much was it before?
[04:22] <phanatic> pygi: gone to pm, i'll tell you the details ;)
[04:22] <pygi> phanatic, #conf-hu is nice :)
[04:42] <havoc> yay, ubuntu installed, now to move back all my data :|
[04:46] <jabra> I needs docs on building a ubuntu mirror
[04:59] <imbrandon> jabra: one sec
[04:59] <imbrandon> jabra: a full mirror or just a personal mirror for your arch ?
[05:05] <imbrandon> lol
[05:08] <Toadstool> ping raphink
[05:08] <raphink> pong Toadstool
[05:08] <Toadstool> raphink: hi, you're a revu admin, aren't you?
[05:09] <raphink> sure
[05:09] <Toadstool> if you have time could you change the email adress I use to log in REVU?
[05:09] <raphink> no I can't do that
[05:09] <raphink> the account is linked to the email
[05:09] <Toadstool> :(
[05:10] <raphink> I would have to recreate a new account
[05:10] <raphink> which is not easy, since accounts are created automatically using the address you first use to upload
[05:10] <raphink> why do you need to change this?
[05:10] <Toadstool> 'cause I want to use my @ubuntu.com now
[05:10] <raphink> you can use it to sign your packages
[05:11] <raphink> if you add it to your key
[05:11] <Toadstool> already did that
[05:11] <raphink> you don't need to change your REVU account
[05:11] <raphink> then just sign your packages with it now, and upload
[05:11] <raphink> that'll do
[05:11] <Toadstool> ah yes, sorry I tried to login before my upload to test
[05:11] <Toadstool> now it works
[05:12] <raphink> ;)
[05:12] <Toadstool> thanks anyway :)
[05:12] <raphink> good
[05:13] <raphink> np
[05:14] <Toadstool> heh lintian on revu doesn't like edgy in the changelog and 3.7.2 standars version :)
[05:14] <Toadstool> standards even
[05:20] <\sh> Toadstool: nobody upgraded to edgy now...and I think we need to wait after the weekend...
[05:20] <Toadstool> great breakage ongoing? :)
[05:20] <\sh> what do you expect
[05:21] <\sh> but we have soccer world chanmpionships as well
[05:21] <ogra> how's that related ?
[05:21] <\sh> so everybody in germany is sitting in front of the computer, except ogra and me
[05:21] <tritium> \sh: you mean TV?  ;)
[05:21] <\sh> s/computer/tv/
[05:21] <\sh> yes
[05:21] <hub> hey \sh
[05:21] <HobbseePitchfork> tv?  what's that?
[05:22] <Toadstool> \sh: i'm sitting in front of my computer but we have the tv on the lan ;)
[05:22] <\sh> trying to fix my 8tb radi6 array
[05:38] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[05:38] <tritium> hey bddebian
[05:40] <jabra> imbrandon: actually wondering I I can use debian testing as a apt-proxy for dapper
[05:40] <\sh> ogra: will you watch the soccer match in 20 minutes?
[05:40] <LaserJock> hi tritium and bddebian
[05:40] <tritium> hi LaserJock
[05:40] <ogra> \sh, i didnt even know there is one in 20 mins ...
[05:40] <ogra> and no, i'll watch anything but soccer
[05:40] <LaserJock> jabra: testing? are we that out of date?
[05:41] <\sh> ogra: today is the beginning of the soccer worldcup...and we are waiting for the masses to go home to a free highway
[05:41] <jabra> the server is debian testing
[05:41] <jabra> and I wanta setup a server with dapper and use debian as the proxy
[05:41] <Hobbsee> smart idea.  *mutters at traffic again*
[05:41] <jabra> wondering if that can work
[05:41] <LaserJock> oh
[05:42] <jabra> LaserJock: side note, working on packaging nmap::parser for debian. If I get it accepted we can get it into ubuntu or will it need to be repackaged?
[05:42] <jabra> www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/debian
[05:42] <LaserJock> if it goes into unstable then it will be synced into Edgy
[05:43] <LaserJock> if it is there before we stop the automatic syncing
[05:43] <jabra> k and if I want it in dapper I will need to repackage it
[05:43] <ogra> if you want it in dapper it frost needs to enter edgy
[05:43] <ogra> *first
[05:43] <LaserJock> well, it can't go into dapper proper, I don't think
[05:43] <imbrandon> no new packages will get into dapper propper
[05:44] <jabra> universe ?
[05:44] <LaserJock> ogra: can we backport NEW packages?
[05:44] <ogra> then you can ask for a backport if it can be backported without big changes to the source
[05:44] <jabra> k
[05:44] <jabra> when it gets accepted I will bring it up again
[05:44] <LaserJock> or is nmap::parser not NEW new?
[05:44] <ogra> LaserJock, i think so, if they dont have weird dependencys and build out of the box
[05:44] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:45] <LaserJock> I still think we need a backports policy spelled out on a wiki page or something
[05:45] <jabra> feel free to take a look at what I have done already
[05:45] <imbrandon> jabra: and if your on debian testing and want to setup an apt mirror for dapper the *easiest* way is to use apt-mirror.sf.net but thats not the official way
[05:45] <tseng> it was spelled out in a meeting
[05:45] <imbrandon> LaserJock: agreed
[05:45] <LaserJock> tseng: kinda
[05:45] <jabra> imbrandon: ok
[05:46] <imbrandon> tseng: kinda but not totaly and not everyone go's to the meeting , leaste not every meeting
[05:46] <LaserJock> it still wasn't terribly clear to me (maybe it was just me) as indicated by my NEW question
[05:46] <tseng> thats why meetings are logged
[05:46] <tseng> and posted to an ml
[05:46] <LaserJock> it sounded like siretart was going to write up a backports howto on the wiki so that should make it better for sure
[05:47] <imbrandon> true tseng but still , if i was looking for that information i wouldent know what meeting and such
[05:47] <tseng> if you were a backporter at the time
[05:47] <tseng> you would have known
[05:47] <jabra> sorry for the confusion i'm talking about apt-proxy
[05:47] <tseng> and would have hopefulyl passed that info on
[05:47] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:47] <tseng> apperantly not the case
[05:48] <Hobbsee> night all
[05:48] <jabra> imbrandon: ^
[05:48] <tseng> bye Hobbsee
[05:48] <LaserJock> cya Hobbsee
[05:48] <tseng> i hope writing a "howto" on backporting doesnt attract the same kind of "help" as last time
[05:48] <imbrandon> gnight hobbie
[05:48] <LaserJock> tseng: last time?
[05:49] <Hobbsee> trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[05:49] <Hobbsee> oops
[05:49] <tseng> LaserJock: rules need to be followed
[05:49] <Hobbsee> keyboards dont actually make too bad a pillow...
[05:49] <imbrandon> lol
[05:49] <Hobbsee> hmmm...interesting
[05:49] <LaserJock> tseng: yeah, hence siretart writing down the rules is a good thing, no?
[05:50] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:50] <imbrandon> tseng: last time? and i dont think that would be a problem as long as not just anyone is given -backports upload access as it is now and the "rules" spelled out on the wiki
[05:50] <tseng> LaserJock: only if people dont ignore them
[05:50] <bddebian> Oh and imbrandon and tseng
[05:50] <LaserJock> tseng: better than nothing, I would think
[05:50] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[05:51] <imbrandon> yea rules are kinda hard to follow if they are hard to get at and read
[05:51] <siretart> LaserJock: aaargl. thanks for the reminder. will do that now
[05:51] <imbrandon> tseng: i see your point but i dont think the wiki is a bad idea
[05:51] <tseng> people happily "backport" things into their personal web space and attract a large number of users very quickly
[05:51] <tseng> currently
[05:51] <tseng> most people who learn packaging go through MOTU channels here
[05:51] <tseng> and learn things right
[05:52] <tseng> a backport quickstart lets people get up to speed quickly
[05:52] <tseng> w/o understanding hows, whys and why not
[05:53] <LaserJock> tseng: no, not a HOWTO in the packaging sense, a HOWTO as in what are the rules and what is backportable and who is able to upload
[05:53] <tseng> I see.
[05:53] <imbrandon> LaserJock: +1
[05:53] <imbrandon> yea
[05:53] <tseng> ok.
[05:53] <imbrandon> more a "rules" thing not ness a howto package
[05:54] <imbrandon> there are tons of doc's on packaging already etc
[05:54] <imbrandon> the correct way
[05:54] <tseng> sorry to make a fuss, alot of people have done alot of f$%#^ up things
[05:54] <tseng> and i dont want anything to encourage it
[05:54] <imbrandon> tseng: true ;)
[05:54] <LaserJock> hehe, nooo ;-)
[05:55] <LaserJock> I'm actually thinking about cleaning up most of all the packaging related wiki pages and having us refer to the Packaging Guide instead
[05:55] <tseng> that would be nice
[05:55] <imbrandon> LaserJock: good idea
[05:55] <tseng> you know what would be really nice?
[05:55] <tseng> a properly formatted, tested LiveCDCustomizationHowto
[05:55] <LaserJock> yes, oh please yes
[05:55] <imbrandon> YES !!!!!!!!!!
[05:55] <imbrandon> lol
[05:55] <bmonty> LaserJock: we'll probably need to add bzr info as well
[05:56] <tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[05:56] <tseng> this doc hasnt weathered that well
[05:56] <imbrandon> tseng: i've been trying to figure that out myself , not as simple as a knoppix remaster, but it should be IMO
[05:56] <tseng> and you are starting to have multiple versions
[05:56] <tseng> i remastered breezy
[05:56] <tseng> not yet for dapper
[05:56] <LaserJock> bmonty: in the packaging guide?
[05:57] <bmonty> LaserJock: yes, since we can now store package source in bzr archives
[05:57] <imbrandon> LaserJock: seeing as *buntu projects use bzr alot i would say so
[05:57] <LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, i'll add that to the list
[05:57] <tseng> http://www.atworkonline.it/~bibe/ubuntu/custom-livecd.htm
[05:57] <tseng> this is actually pretty good
[05:58] <tseng> besides being ugly
[05:58] <LaserJock> guys, btw. If you want to see something in the Edgy version of the Packaging Guide just put it on wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide, please, pretty please :-)
[05:58] <imbrandon> could probbly be adapted and put into the currect wiki page couldent it ?
[05:59] <tseng> i always feel bad about wiping out an existing wiki page with dozens of contributions
[05:59] <tseng> and tacking onto it is worse
[05:59] <tseng> can you guys throw it in yelp?
[05:59] <tseng> or docs.ubuntu.com
[05:59] <imbrandon> yelp ?
[06:00] <tseng> i spelled that all wrong
[06:00] <ogra> i'm not sure yelp is really an option for policy docs
[06:00] <tseng> great i woke ogra
[06:00] <bddebian> Uh oh :-)
[06:00] <ogra> heh
[06:00] <imbrandon> hehe
[06:01] <ogra> asnt there a post to -devel some time ago advertising a CD build tool ?
[06:01] <ogra> +w
[06:01] <imbrandon> orga yea
[06:01] <LaserJock> tseng: wait, what do you want? I'm on the doc team too
[06:02] <LaserJock> lol
[06:02] <LaserJock> or and EC meeting, I think we might have almost a quorum
[06:02] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:02] <imbrandon> heh
[06:03] <tseng> LaserJock: http://www.atworkonline.it/~bibe/ubuntu/custom-livecd.htm
[06:03] <tseng> LaserJock: that doc, officialized
[06:03] <tseng> doesnt matter to me
[06:03] <tseng> i can read it there
[06:03] <imbrandon> ^^ and maybe that tool added also that was discussed in -devel
[06:04] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:04] <imbrandon> the current page is dated ( on the wiki )
[06:04] <LaserJock> well, once the wiki move is over we can sort of lock up some of the good wiki pages
[06:04] <imbrandon> but would be a shame to wipe it
[06:04] <Yagisan> G'day all. any non-nvidia users here ?
[06:04] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan
[06:05] <imbrandon> 'ello Yagisan
[06:05] <LaserJock> tseng:  that would be one page that I'd like to see updated, cleaned up, and frozen for general editing
[06:06] <imbrandon> ok i got to get back to work, bbaib
[06:06] <Yagisan> Any non-nvidia users (or nvidia older then geforce4), could you dcc or email me the output from 'glxinfo -l > opengl_info.txt'
[06:07] <tseng> what wiki move?
[06:07] <tseng> Yagisan: woo ssp
[06:07] <Yagisan> how are things going bddebian and imbrandon
[06:07] <tseng> imbrandontoo
[06:07] <bddebian> Yagisan: OK I guess, thanks.  Yourself?
[06:08] <Yagisan> tseng:  where ?
[06:08] <tseng> Yagisan: will be in edgy
[06:08] <tseng> for a few things
[06:08] <LaserJock> tseng: all of the documentation wiki pages ( CategoryDocumentation) are being moved to help.ubuntu.com
[06:08] <tseng> LaserJock: cool.
[06:08] <Yagisan> bddebian: ok. see my saga re my daughter and the lift doors in #edubuntu ?
[06:08] <LaserJock> so that wiki.ubuntu.com will just be for specs and other development
[06:09] <tseng> can anyone edit help?
[06:09] <tseng> or they have to proove sanity
[06:09] <Yagisan> tseng: only some apps ?
[06:09] <LaserJock> ideally, all documentation will be on help.ubuntu.com (shipped docs and wiki, etc.)
[06:09] <tseng> Yagisan: yes?
[06:09] <tseng> Yagisan: in paralel there will be an i386-ssp
[06:09] <imbrandon> Yagisan: http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/misc/opengl_info.txt
[06:09] <Spec> LaserJock: when's that happening?
[06:09] <tseng> Yagisan: where the whole archive is tested
[06:09] <Spec> LaserJock: everyone's links to wiki.ubuntu.com will break... :-/
[06:09] <tseng> for buildability
[06:10] <LaserJock> tseng: everyone will be able to rw except for a few critical docs that only the wiki team will have rw. only the wiki team will be able to delete
[06:10] <LaserJock> Spec: no, links will be preserved
[06:10] <Yagisan> tseng: hmm. I'd rather all by default myself - but considering even I broke a few apps that understandable. amd64 ?
[06:11] <imbrandon> Yagisan: is that what you wanted ?
[06:11] <Spec> oh, okay
[06:11] <tseng> Yagisan: that isnt sane imo
[06:11] <tseng> Yagisan: talk to pitti if you feel strongly otherwise
[06:11] <Yagisan> imbrandon: thank you
[06:11] <imbrandon> np
[06:12] <LaserJock> Spec: for now there will be redirects at wiki.u.c so that google searches, etc. are intact
[06:13] <Yagisan> tseng: not sane ? overhead was minimal on many apps that I did test with. BTW, did I miss the announcement ?
[06:13] <tseng> what announcement
[06:13] <Yagisan> tseng: about ssp
[06:13] <imbrandon> announcement ?
[06:13] <tseng> it is a spec
[06:13] <tseng> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gcc-ssp
[06:13] <tseng> a plan for possible development in edgy..
[06:14] <tseng> please ignore the roadmap its been made useless
[06:14] <tseng> by certain people
[06:15] <imbrandon> thats where gcc take advantage of nx on amd64 ?
[06:15] <tseng> no
[06:15] <imbrandon> ahh umm ok
[06:15] <tseng> nx has nothing to do with ssp
[06:16] <Yagisan> imbrandon: it tries to prevent buffer overflows in certain types of code
[06:16] <tseng> PT_GNU_STACK emmitted by gcc controlls NX
[06:16] <tseng> and is in the default gcc
[06:16] <tseng> ubuntu binaries are already marked
[06:16] <tseng> but no one is auditing the results for correctness
[06:17] <LaserJock> hmm, backporting would also be a good topic for the Ubuntu Developer's Reference, no?
[06:17] <imbrandon> ahh good wasent sure about that, i just got my amd64 a few days ago and JUST now getting it all setup for dev let alone taking advantage of any of it
[06:17] <imbrandon> LaserJock: at leaste a pointer to the backporting doc's yes
[06:18] <imbrandon> like in an appendex ofr something
[06:18] <LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I prefer to make the wiki docs obsolete ;-)
[06:19] <imbrandon> well what i mean is maybe make the backporting section a appendex not part of the main doc but avaible
[06:19] <LaserJock> ah, yeah. that could be
[06:20] <LaserJock> the debian version has some similar material, regarding different components, etc.
[06:20] <imbrandon> right
[06:21] <imbrandon> i come from an rpm world to ubuntu but i've looked at the debian maint guide , packaging etc etc etc as kinda an insite into "the ubuntu way"
[06:22] <imbrandon> infact i still have an old suse box here i keep arround just to package rpm's when the rare case arrives, guess i could setup a suse chroot later and rid that box of suse ;)
[06:23] <imbrandon> tseng: how hard would it be to setup a local debian/ubuntu build server to enable ssp by default ?
[06:24] <tseng> imbrandon: Yagisan has done something similar
[06:24] <tseng> but the plan is to do it on the main builders
[06:24] <imbrandon> right right , i was just thinking out loud ;)
[06:24] <tseng> you want sbuild
[06:24] <tseng> + sauce
[06:25] <Yagisan> I've temporally stopped my ssp setup, simply because debians current gcc-4.1 FTBFS in pbuilder, yet the debian autobuilders build it
[06:26] <imbrandon> hrm next question the box i would use to make the local build server would be an i386 ( amd1800+ ) could i have it build amd64 debs automaticly , as the test box would be a amd64
[06:26] <imbrandon> Yagisan: ouch
[06:27] <imbrandon> dchroot -c edgy -d
[06:27] <imbrandon> grr whoops
[06:27] <bddebian> heh
[06:28] <tseng> dchroot++
[06:28] <LaserJock> can you make non-debian based chroots?
[06:28] <tseng> it will be a few weeks before edgy is really in full gear
[06:28] <tseng> LaserJock: of course
[06:28] <imbrandon> tseng: yea
[06:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yea
[06:29] <tseng> LaserJock: but not with debootstrap obviously
[06:29] <tseng> in gentoo you untar the base and build up, rpm has a debootstrap kind of thing
[06:29] <imbrandon> tseng: yeea edgy isnt ready but i got my chroot al setup and waiting for goodness ;)
[06:29] <tseng> i have one too
[06:30] <imbrandon> i have a clean dapper chroot and a edgy one, thinking of doing a suse one later today so i can wipe that old suse box and just use chroot to build rpm's
[06:30] <imbrandon> and use the hardware to build a local build server
[06:30] <tseng> haha suse
[06:31] <imbrandon> heh
[06:31] <tseng> < 3
[06:31] <imbrandon> dapper clean and edgy
[06:31] <tseng> while we are counting
[06:31] <LaserJock> do you think it would be possible to make an Ubuntu chroot in OSX?
[06:31] <imbrandon> i dont like building on my main dapper becouse i have kde3.5.3 etc , its not a clean dapper
[06:32] <tseng> LaserJock: probably
[06:32] <imbrandon> LaserJock: possible but i think *bsd its called a jail or something
[06:32] <tseng> if fink has enough to run debootstrap
[06:32] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:33] <LaserJock> that would totally rock my world
[06:33] <imbrandon> you could probbly do it without debootstrap too but it would not be easy
[06:34] <LaserJock> well, they don't have a debootstrap
[06:34] <thierryn> how do I get access to my<EMAIL_ADDRESS>e-mail adress?
[06:34] <imbrandon> LaserJock: as OSX is more BSDish i would look at bsdchroots but honestly i have no idea, i've booted into osx like a whole 3 times ;)
[06:34] <LaserJock> access? it is forwarded to the LP preferred address
[06:34] <imbrandon> thierryn: its a forward to your lp addy
[06:35] <LaserJock> I know I can build a OSX chroot from within  OSX, but that's no good. I want Ubuntu dang it :-)
[06:35] <thierryn> ha ok thanks!
[06:35] <Mithrandir> LaserJock: no, you can't.  The OSX kernel can't run linux binaries.
[06:36] <imbrandon> LaserJock: look at the info for building a osx chroot and adapt it for *buntu it probbly isnt much diffrent
[06:36] <imbrandon> ahhh ok Mithrandir
[06:36] <LaserJock> Mithrandir: hmmm, :(
[06:36] <imbrandon> Mithrandir: what does it run BSD compiled X or something ?
[06:37] <imbrandon> ( for the xserever )
[06:37] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: more or less, yes.
[06:37] <imbrandon> ahh
[06:37] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: it's compiled for darwin and uses the gui bindings in MOSX.
[06:37] <imbrandon> ahhh , makes sense
[06:39] <LaserJock> I sooo wish the intel macs had come out a week later
[06:39] <imbrandon> so in a chroot the host os has to be able to run the chroot kernel ?
[06:39] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: it's just one kernel.
[06:39] <imbrandon> err that made no sense nm
[06:39] <imbrandon> yea i thought about that after i said it
[06:39] <imbrandon> lol
[06:40] <imbrandon> some reason i was thinking vm like xen etc
[06:40] <LaserJock> I've got parallel's virtualization going, but it isn't the same
[06:41] <imbrandon> LaserJock: running ppc mac ?
[06:41] <LaserJock> no, intel, hence all the problem
[06:42] <siretart> how to forward/redirect in Moin?
[06:42] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:42] <LaserJock> if it was a ppc, I'd just slap on Ubuntu np
[06:42] <imbrandon> bootcamp ubuntu
[06:42] <tseng> does og maciel irc
[06:43] <LaserJock> siretart: #REDIRECT NewPage
[06:44] <LaserJock> tseng: I thought so, but I can't remember the nick
[06:44] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I think you can only bootcamp Windows XP
[06:44] <LaserJock> or just Windows
[06:45] <imbrandon> LaserJock: i've seen ppl on the net use it for linux. but i could be wrong as i dont ahve a mac to test it ;)
[06:45] <imbrandon> bootcamp suposidly just emulates an old bios windows and chainloads it
[06:46] <LaserJock> hmm, I thought it was specific to Windows (I wouldn't put it bast Apple)
[06:48] <siretart> please proofread https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsHowto
[06:48] <LaserJock> ohhh, I found a "Gentoo in OSX chroot " HowTO
[06:52] <LaserJock> ack, can you downgrade libc6 on dapper to the breezy version without breaking everything?
[06:53] <imbrandon> doubtfull
[06:53] <bddebian> Extremely doubtfull :-)
[06:54] <LaserJock> ok, I'm trying to help somebody that is trying to do just that
[06:54] <imbrandon> ouch, why ?
[06:55] <LaserJock> I'm not sure
[06:55] <LaserJock> they compiled something on breezy
[06:55] <LaserJock> but it doesn't want to compile on dapper
[06:55] <LaserJock> so they are trying to install the breezy .deb
[06:55] <imbrandon> breezy chroot to run it ;)
[06:55] <LaserJock> with some --overwrite action :(
[06:55] <imbrandon> sounds like it will be a broken system
[06:55] <imbrandon> in the end ;)
[06:57] <LaserJock> oh my gosh, he tried to do like all of breezy's build-essential+deps
[06:57] <imbrandon> heh
[06:57] <Yagisan> LaserJock: what app ?
[06:57] <imbrandon> looks like he gets to backup /home and start over
[06:57] <thierryn> how do I get acess to my ubuntu/member/your_nick hostname
[06:57] <imbrandon> thierryn: ping Seveas
[06:58] <LaserJock> NS2
[06:58] <Seveas> thierryn, what's your LP id?
[06:58] <thierryn> thierryn
[06:58] <LaserJock> network simulator 2 I guess
[06:59] <Seveas> thierryn, could you send me a reminder mail (dennis@ubuntu.com), have to go in a few minutes
[06:59] <thierryn> k I'll do that
[07:01] <thierryn> sent
[07:03] <Yagisan> night all
[07:03] <bddebian> Gnight Yagisan
[07:03] <imbrandon> gnight Yagisan
[07:06] <LaserJock> anybody heard of network simulator 2
[07:07] <zul> is it a game? :)
[07:07] <LaserJock> no, a network simulator ;-)
[07:12] <cbx33> LaserJock, oooh I was looking for one of those a while back
[07:15] <LaserJock> siretart: do we want the community at large requesting backports via archive-team?
[07:15] <siretart> LaserJock: no. community shall first ask ubuntu-backporters for investigating the issue
[07:15] <siretart> LaserJock: ubuntu-archive only if ubuntu-backporters have confirmed the package to be ready to be backported
[07:16] <LaserJock> siretart: then maybe you should change the "Howto request a package to be backported" to be a little less generic ;-)
[07:16] <LaserJock> I think that could be hit a lot by searches
[07:18] <LaserJock> oh wait, I guess you do say to subscribe ubuntu-backporters. is that sufficent?
[07:20] <siretart> LaserJock: yes, they should subscribe ubuntu-backporters, but not ubuntu-archive
[07:20] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe just put that explicitly under the howto request section
[07:21] <LaserJock> I think the archive team might not like getting random backporting requests
[07:23] <siretart> right
[07:23] <LaserJock> ah, and I see jdong has a sticky on the forums that says to use the backports LP
[07:26] <siretart> yes, I've mailed him yesterday about this
[07:26] <siretart> LaserJock: please reread
[07:27] <LaserJock> hehe, much better ;-)
[07:28] <LaserJock> do you want to put anything on how to contribute or join the backports team?
[07:28] <siretart> LaserJock: well, it involves doing some work, and contacting existing members of the backport team. I think thats rather obvious, no?
[07:29] <LaserJock> I suppose
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  ajmitch helped me get the thing working, I've got a signed .dsc and .changes
[07:30] <bluefoxicy> wtf do I do now.  :)
[07:30] <bluefoxicy> oh and I've hacked the /etc file in that wiki entry.
[07:30] <LaserJock> if it looks good
[07:30] <LaserJock> put it on REVU
[07:31] <bluefoxicy> http://bluefox.kicks-ass.org/stuff/bluefox/pax-utils/  It looks like that, but I don't know how to use the tools to put it on revu.
[07:31] <bluefoxicy> were there instructions?
[07:31] <bluefoxicy> it's dput something isn't it
[07:31] <bluefoxicy> brb making a shirly temple
[07:33] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> ah
[07:35] <LaserJock> yes
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> done.
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> well
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> that was certainly educational.
[07:38] <zul> cd /etc/courier
[07:38] <zul> damn it
[07:39] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: hmm, did you use debuild -S -sa ? specifically the -sa part when building the source package
[07:39] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  noticing there's no .asc, just a signed .dsc?
[07:39] <bluefoxicy> I had to use debsign
[07:40] <LaserJock> weird
[07:40] <LaserJock> no, I don't see a .orig.tar.gz
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> dpkg-buildpackage would build and sign the source package but not the binary
[07:40] <LaserJock> well, we don't care about the binary
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> and debuild would build a binary and not sign anything
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> it asked me for a password and then said GPG cried
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> oh yeah I noticed that
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> it didn't upload the .orig
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> -rw-r--r-- 1 bluefox bluefox 61280 2006-06-09 00:47 pax-utils_0.1.13.orig.tar.gz
[07:41] <LaserJock> make sure you us -sa and then dput the _source.changes file
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> -rw-r--r-- 1 bluefox bluefox  1499 2006-06-09 01:53 pax-utils_0.1.13_i386.changes
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> that's what I dput
[07:41] <LaserJock> no
[07:41] <LaserJock> don't do that one
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> I don't have another .changes.
[07:42] <bddebian> Debuild .dsc files not .changes
[07:42] <LaserJock> and rm the .upload or use dput -f to override your previous upload
[07:42] <bddebian> oh, nm
[07:42] <LaserJock> to late, it's in the logs bddebian
[07:42] <bddebian> doh
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> debuild: fatal error at line 791:
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> running debsign failed
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> debuild does this.
[07:43] <LaserJock> debuild -S -sa does?
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> debuild -S -sa yes.
[07:43] <LaserJock> ok, try using -k<keyid>
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> still failed.
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  it's finding the right key, debuild just can't make gpg work.
[07:45] <LaserJock> then, that's a problem :-)
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> dpkg-buildpackage can do it, so can debsign
[07:45] <zul> your gpg key has to match the debian/changelog
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> debuild has gpg cry that it can't find an agent
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> zul:  it does.
[07:45] <zul> i ran into the same problem before
[07:45] <LaserJock> zul not with -k
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> user: "John Moser (New key generated Feb 24<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:45] <bluefoxicy> 4096-bit RSA key, ID 07093105, created 2006-02-24
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  is there another way to do it?
[07:47] <LaserJock> ok, so if you do dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot it works? or no
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> that works.
[07:48] <LaserJock> fine, use that then
[07:48] <LaserJock> I'm not sure why debuild would have a problem
[07:49] <bluefoxicy> Uploading via ftp pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc
[07:50] <LaserJock> ack, we've been getting those a lot lately
[07:50] <bluefoxicy> will hammering it over and over until it behaves work or will that just create unnecessary log bloat on the server
[07:51] <siretart> bluefoxicy: try options '-uc -us'
[07:51] <JohnnyMast> how do you get the line number with vi ?
[07:51] <bluefoxicy> :
[07:52] <bluefoxicy> hmm.  I don't know.  XD
[07:52] <jabra> so anyone know if apt-proxy on debian testing can work as a apt-policy for dapper
[07:52] <bluefoxicy> siretart:  I can't upload to revu with -uc -us
[07:53] <jabra> wondering if the source.list on the debian testing machine would need to have entries for debian and ubuntu to pull the packages
[07:53] <bddebian> No because it would be unsinged
[07:56] <siretart> bluefoxicy: use 'debsign *.changes' to sign your upload
[07:56] <bluefoxicy> it's already signed.
[07:56] <bluefoxicy> it just won't upload.
[07:57] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  what do I do?
[07:57] <LaserJock> dude, use debsign on *.changes like siretart said and re dput
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:/tmp/x/pax-utils$ cat pax-utils_0.1.13_source.changes |grep SIGNATURE
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  it's ALREADY signed.
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> do I have to sign it again?
[07:59] <LaserJock> ni
[07:59] <LaserJock> no
[08:00] <jabra> wondering if the source.list on the debian testing machine would need to have entries for debian and ubuntu to pull the packages
[08:00] <bluefoxicy> dput says my signature is good too btw.
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I think I may have to dcut the stuff off the server.  >/
[08:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know if you can do that
[08:10] <bluefoxicy> Neither do I.
[08:10] <LaserJock> siretart: do you know what to do? I've seen this 3 times so far
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> Uploading via ftp pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of pax-utils_0.1.13.dsc
[08:11] <bluefoxicy> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
[08:11] <bluefoxicy>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
[08:11] <bluefoxicy>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
[08:22] <bluefoxicy> siretart:  I just adjusted it to use libcap too, should I add a -1 and add a section to the changelog and reupload that?
[08:22] <bluefoxicy> or does it not matter at this stage
[08:28] <bluefoxicy> YAY!
[08:29] <LaserJock> \o/ I see it in incoming
[08:30] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: it's on review, now you just have to clean it up :-)
[08:31] <tkteo> Hi Laserjock, this is tkteo from TeX Live and debian-tetex-maint lists
[08:31] <LaserJock> tkteo!!!
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  it's got proper depends and proper build deps.. I think.. cdbs depends on debhelper, which depends on build-essentials, right?
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> and of course it has libcap-dev
[08:31] <LaserJock> something like that
[08:32] <LaserJock> but you versioning is wrong
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> why didn't you tell me that before
[08:33] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: well, i'm sure there are other issues
[08:33] <LaserJock> but first you have to get a package up where people can see it
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> what's wrong with my versioning at any rate?
[08:33] <LaserJock> bluefoxicy: I'll give you three guesses :-)
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> I don't have a -1
[08:34] <LaserJock> an 0ubuntu1 for a package that isn't in Debian yet
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> pax-utils (0.1.13-0ubuntu1) stable; urgency=low
[08:35] <LaserJock> not stable
[08:35] <LaserJock> stable is a Debian repo
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> then?
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> oh
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> universe.
[08:35] <LaserJock> you probably want edgy or dapper
[08:35] <bddebian> No, dapper or edgy :-)
[08:35] <zul> most likely edgy
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  no chance of getting it in dapper universe ;)  so edgy
[08:35] <LaserJock> edgy's kinda weird since it really hasn't opened yet, but that is what it is heading for
[08:36] <LaserJock> tkteo: did you see my pm?
[08:36] <tkteo> yes, I just noticed it, not used to the multiple windows on irc cos I have not irced in years
[08:36] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:36] <tseng> bluefoxicy: why would you randomly start uploading things
[08:37] <tseng> you need to be in the keyring
[08:37] <tseng> ie, approved uploader
[08:37] <LaserJock> tkteo: is you nick registered on freenode?
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> nice to see you too, tseng.
[08:37] <LaserJock> tseng: I thought he was?
[08:37] <tseng> the pleasure is all mine
[08:37] <tseng> LaserJock: oh no.
[08:37] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  what are you up to these days btw?
[08:38] <tseng> I work at a major financial company in the networking group
[08:38] <tkteo> I doubt my nick is registered; I never even heard of registering a nick
[08:38] <tseng> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]  The nickname [tkteo]  is not registered
[08:38] <tseng> there you have it
[08:39] <LaserJock> tkteo: ok, join #ubuntu-science then so we don't add to the noise ;-)
[08:39] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I mean in ubuntu.
[08:39] <tseng> beagle, muine, whatever
[08:39] <bluefoxicy> ah
[08:40] <NthDegree> is edgy ready for testing?
[08:40] <zul> a bit eager arent we?
[08:40] <tkteo> laserjock: I have now joined #ubuntu-science
[08:41] <bddebian> w00t
[08:41] <bddebian> :-)
[08:41] <NthDegree> well IMO kubuntu is still a little messed up on dapper
[08:42] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  besides Yagisan and pitti, is there anyone else I should ask to try and build a niche team similar to -hardened in Ubuntu? (yes I'm aware you're not so hot on the idea)
[08:43] <tseng> pitti (or me) arent very interested in niche
[08:43] <tseng> you can carefully add features to the main distro
[08:43] <tseng> in our estimation
[08:43] <zul> NthDegree: developers are still working on the toolchain and it isnt even usuable yet
[08:44] <NthDegree> oh ok :)
[08:44] <NthDegree> is kde 3.5.3 ready for kubuntu?
[08:45] <zul> you might want to try #kubuntu-devel
[08:45] <NthDegree> :| didn't know they had one
[08:45] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  gentoo has a team that basically polices textrels, W|X mappings, trampolines, etc along with all the other stuff... I really want something like that over here.  But I still don't even know half the stuff you guys were doing, much less understand it all.
[08:46] <tseng> "you guys" = hardened gentoo?
[08:46] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  adding things like SSP and PIE and friends are fine, but what do you do when they break things?  Back them off?
[08:46] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  yes.
[08:46] <imbrandon> ...
[08:46] <tseng> yes of course you back them off
[08:47] <tseng> same as filter-flags
[08:47] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  you have to, at first.  But then what?
[08:47] <tseng> most of the stuff with problems, historically, has been hard to get fixed upstream
[08:47] <tseng> they don't understand the issues, or care
[08:47] <tseng> if you can get them at all
[08:47] <bluefoxicy> you know I don't want to admit it but you're right.
[08:48] <tseng> I know you don't
[08:48] <tseng> but you guys didnt spend a few years doing it
[08:48] <bluefoxicy> I know what you guys did.  You worked your assess off for no profit.
[08:48] <tritium> NthDegree: SELinux would be nice, yes, especially for .gov adoption
[08:48] <tseng> yeah, it pretty much went nowhere
[08:49] <tseng> pappy is completely out of his mind these days
[08:49] <bluefoxicy> pappy was always insane XD
[08:49] <tseng> not like this
[08:49] <NthDegree> well SELinux is like one of the few things pulling me away from *ubuntu
[08:49] <bluefoxicy> tseng I haven't seen pappy but I can extrapolate, I watched him get worse and worse as time went on :P
[08:49] <tseng> NthDegree: we will have to userland mostly in edgy
[08:49] <tseng> NthDegree: if someone steps up to seriously work on policy
[08:49] <tseng> NthDegree: are you that someone?
[08:50] <NthDegree> tseng, well I used to do crazy things with windows policies
[08:50] <tseng> all of this stuff takes a massive ammount of work
[08:50] <tseng> and it is still too hard at the end of the day for most people to use
[08:50] <tritium> wasn't trulux working on that?
[08:50] <NthDegree> tseng but it's like saying if I hardened down say for example slackware no-one will benefit but me
[08:50] <tseng> tritium: I will let blue comment on that
[08:51] <NthDegree> but if i did SELinux for ubuntu then everyone would benefit :)
[08:51] <bluefoxicy> trulux decided that ubuntu is playing with its dick when security time comes around instead of getting any work done
[08:51] <bluefoxicy> and ran to Fedora.
[08:51] <tritium> tseng: ok.  I do seem to remember some "issues" with that
[08:51] <tseng> trulux is a fanatic imo
[08:51] <tritium> bluefoxicy: oh, I see
[08:51] <tseng> and antisocial
[08:51] <tritium> sorry, I was not aware
[08:51] <bluefoxicy> He doesn't understand that you need to actually put someone in who wants to reach a goal before the distro in general cares.
[08:51] <NthDegree> bluefoxicy: I ditched the original ubuntu for that exact reason
[08:52] <NthDegree> I used to have ubuntu and kubuntu mulitbooted
[08:52] <NthDegree> but since i've done CentOS (GNOME) , kubuntu (KDE) and slackware (XFCE)
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> tseng: Personally I feel if we could get collaboration between a hardened team in Ubuntu and hardened-gentoo it would benefit both sides.  There would be a lot of shared effort, and there would be negotiating power from two major distros when it comes to upstream.
[08:53] <tseng> hardened gentoo is a niche market of a distro most upstreams don't care about
[08:53] <tseng> unfortunate fact
[08:53] <NthDegree> that'll be about as difficult as convincing RHEL users that .deb is better :p
[08:54] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I do not know how to handle this, however.  It's difficult, I don't understand the politics from all sides, and it's hard to play inside the politics.  Solar goes nuts if you mention selinux, but nobody in ubuntu is going to deploy grsecurity.
[08:54] <tseng> selinux is maintained by the kernel team
[08:54] <tseng> and redhat, and nsa, etc
[08:54] <tseng> grsecurity is maintained by a fanatic nutcase
[08:54] <tseng> you take a stab at what is maintainable
[08:54] <tseng> in ubuntu
[08:55] <NthDegree> http://fedora.redhat.com/About/ < we need the security they have
[08:55] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  nods.  Last I could tell, hardened and main gentoo were at odds with eachother.  I don't think hardened cares much about the rest of the distro though, since they can fix the problems themselves.
[08:55] <tseng> NthDegree: what fedora has is better than nothing I agree
[08:55] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  In Ubuntu, selinux {execmod,execmem,execstack,execheap} will cover pax mprotect() and be disablable or adjustable per-policy.
[08:55] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  tell solar that and he'll stop talking to you for 6 hours.
[08:56] <tseng> if i tell solar he will politely disagree
[08:56] <tseng> he likes me a bit more :)
[08:56] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  the way I see it I don't care.  Find a broken application, fix it for an selinux policy like that, and it'll work on PaX.
[08:57] <tseng> controlling pax via selinux assumes that users will use both
[08:57] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  no, not controlling pax via selinux.
[08:57] <tseng> which isnt that bad since people can use chpax
 tseng:  In Ubuntu, selinux {execmod,execmem,execstack,execheap} will cover pax mprotect() and be disablable or adjustable per-policy.
[08:57] <bluefoxicy> mimicing PaX using selinux policy.
[08:57] <tseng> ...
[08:57] <tseng> i thought you were talking about our integration
[08:57] <tseng> to controll execstack etc on binaries in selinux policy
[08:57] <tseng> whatever.
[08:58] <bluefoxicy> no, I was talking about what RedHat uses
[08:58] <NthDegree> redhat uses a hell of a lot
[08:58] <bluefoxicy> Ubuntu isn't going to slap pax in
[08:58] <NthDegree> they compile with IBMs stack-smash protection
[08:58] <bluefoxicy> I'm looking for the path of least resistance
[08:58] <bluefoxicy> NthDegree:  hardened gentoo has done that for ages :P
[08:58] <tseng> NthDegree: a few things are compiled with ssp
[08:58] <tseng> last i looked
[08:58] <tseng> your daemons
[08:59] <tseng> which we will do in edgy as well
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> pitti found out that ssp breaks pgs.
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> why has nobody fixed this yet
[08:59] <tseng> and hopefulyl have a basic selinux support
[08:59] <tseng> bluefoxicy: pgs?
[08:59] <tseng> postgres
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> I bet it's the same fuck-up in egenix that I found 2 years ago
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> yes.
[08:59] <tseng> did he find that out yesterday?
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> I think yeah.
[09:00] <NthDegree> I have a better suggestion than SELinux
[09:00] <tseng> can we make a channel without trulux running in and saying omg you arent doing enough you are all dumbasses
[09:00] <NthDegree> but it might need adaptation for KDE
[09:00] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  sure.  Make sure it's registered, make sure you have ops, and +q him.
[09:00] <tseng> haha
[09:00] <bluefoxicy> you did it to me all the time
[09:00] <NthDegree> tseng now isn't that rude of him :p
[09:00] <tseng> you said certain things back then
[09:01] <tseng> that were very worthy of a +q
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> no I just talked too much
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> about the sky being blue and such.
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> HOLY SHIT GUYS
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> A BUG JUST CRAWLED ACROSS MY SCREEN EWW
[09:01] <NthDegree> lol
[09:01] <tseng> you were a complete nut :)
[09:01] <NthDegree> so am I
[09:03] <NthDegree> We could do with Novell AppArmor
[09:03] <NthDegree> it's much easier to set policies for
[09:03] <NthDegree> but it has a few KDE problems right now
[09:03] <tseng> i really think selinux with a solid policy is the way to go
[09:03] <tseng> but i am not about to do the work on that front
[09:03] <tseng> im a non-expert on that front
[09:04] <NthDegree> tseng no-one will
[09:04] <tseng> thats positive :)
[09:04] <NthDegree> we don't need it really with proper chmodding
[09:04] <tseng> thats misinformed :)
[09:04] <tseng> #ubuntu-hardened seems to be the place to be
[09:04] <tseng> rather than put all the motu to sleep
[09:05] <NthDegree> well if we all sat down and figured out what files could be chmodded then wouldn't that do it
[09:05] <NthDegree> #ubuntu-hardened :|
[09:05] <tseng> no
[09:05] <tseng> it is much more complicated than DAC
[09:05] <tseng> if DAC was that good no one would have written LSM etc
[09:11] <lukaswayne9> I'd like to upload a package to the REVU, but I am completely clueless about pgp, gnupg, what must I do to be added to the keyring?  I attatched my public key to an email and I was replied with: please rather upload your key to a public keyserver.  What does this mean and how can I do it?
[09:15] <LaserJock> lukaswayne9: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[09:15] <lukaswayne9> Perfect!  Thanks LaserJock
[09:15] <LaserJock> np
[09:16] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I need to start using the bot more
[09:16] <bddebian> heh
[09:17] <LaserJock> there are a few things that keep coming up
[09:28] <bddebian> Later folks
[09:38] <Knowledge_> Guys, a quick question...
[09:38] <Knowledge_> I remember I did it when I was using 5.04, but how would I compile my kernel to include the i8k.o file? I remember a really easy way to do it thru some menu of some sort. But I can't find it anymore. (I'm going to try this on Dapper)
[10:04] <brandon_> OK guys, i was talking to Riddell on another channel about this. i've got a new kplayer deb i've built here and i want to put it in the repos
[10:04] <brandon_> he said i should ax for an account
[10:05] <lifeless> ax?
[10:05] <brandon_> that's slang for ASK
[10:05] <pygi> ask probably :P
[10:11] <brandon_> so what do i need to do?
[10:12] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
[10:16] <ajmitch> morning
[10:18] <ajmitch> daily cron jobs are great for that
[10:18] <LaserJock> head crash?
[10:19] <ajmitch> yes
[10:19] <ajmitch> hard drive death
[10:19] <dholbach> have a nice weekend
[10:19] <LaserJock> oh, I was thinking of what I do on my headboard when I'm trying to read at night
[10:20] <ajmitch> heh
[10:20] <ajmitch> no, the hard drive seems to be totalled now
[10:20] <LaserJock> that sucks
[10:20] <ajmitch> a little
[10:22] <ajmitch> can't even pull any SMART info off it at the moment
[10:22] <ajmitch> it was showing no new errors not half an hour ago
[10:32] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  Shelf it for a few years.
[10:32] <ajmitch> how helpful
[10:32] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  the drive in my server is a post-death.  It suffered a fatal head crash 3 years ago.
[10:32] <tseng> put it in the freezer is more like it
[10:32] <tseng> it makes the ball bearings contract
[10:33] <tseng> and it spins more easily
[10:33] <bluefoxicy> wouldn't even find the drive during bootup
[10:33] <bluefoxicy> the bios would be like "Primary Master..>" *CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK*
[10:33] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  that works?  I thought that would warp the platters a little (they contract too) and cause general fuckery with the small, sensitive components.
[10:34] <bluefoxicy> I just left mine on top my dresser for like 3 years, and it works now.  *magic*  :)
[10:34] <tseng> not what i heard
[10:34] <tseng> my friend does it
[10:35] <ajmitch> this drive was on its way out awhile ago anyway
[10:35] <ajmitch> it was only holding old data that was backed up
[10:36] <ajmitch> everything else is on RAID
[10:44] <bmonty> ajmitch: how does the SoC project?
[10:44] <bmonty> s/does/goes
[10:45] <ajmitch> alright
[10:47] <bmonty> what are you planning to start working with?
[10:47] <ajmitch> automating & integrating client configuration :)
[10:48] <ajmitch> using your python-krb5 lib will come a little later, I think
[10:48] <ajmitch> first I need to get the packaging side done
[10:48] <ajmitch> then the tools
[10:48] <bmonty> ajmitch: I'm using it now to prototype a couple of tools
[10:48] <ajmitch> ok, what tools?
[10:48] <bmonty> I've got a clone of klist written in python
[10:48] <ajmitch> nice
[10:49] <ajmitch> could be useful
[10:49] <bmonty> I'm working on a clone of KfW in pygtk
[10:49] <ajmitch> though I'd have to declare all this as 'not by me' for SoC ;)
[10:49] <ajmitch> which is fine
[10:50] <bmonty> mostly I'm concerned that the way python-krb5 is currently written makes sense
[10:50] <ajmitch> that it's done in a pythonish style?
[10:54] <bmonty> ajmitch: yes
[10:55] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[10:56] <\sh> moins
[10:56] <ajmitch> ok, gone from just a head crash to a full system lockup
[10:56] <ajmitch> my day is getting better by the minute
[10:56] <\sh> I have to kick some xubuntu maintainer ;)
[10:56] <pygi> \sh: what happened? :P
[10:57] <sivang> have a nice weekend, motus
[10:57] <sivang> singing off for now
[10:57] <pygi> bye sivang ;)
[10:57] <sivang> laters pygi  :-)
[10:57] <\sh> I installed today xubuntu-desktop, and it set it as default session in kdm
[10:57] <pygi> what's wrong with that? they are promoting themselves :)
[10:57] <\sh> which was heavily wrong, because my default was kde
[10:58] <hub> who should I contact for shipit
[10:58] <hub> it looks like a bad UI made me do something wrong
[11:01] <brandon_> i've made a source tarball and i've got dput configured, but it didn't build a deb.src file, assuming that's what a deb source is
[11:01] <bmonty> brandon_: try "dpkg-buildpackage -S"
[11:02] <bmonty> and/or check the packaging guide
[11:02] <\sh> jani monoses is janimo on irc right?
[11:02] <Gloubiboulga> \sh, yes
[11:03] <\sh> oh well, I'll file a bug report :) that's all what I can do now
[11:04] <brandon_> bmonty: that built the tarball and a .dsc file
[11:04] <bmonty> wow, don't ever try to seperate \sh from kde! :)
[11:05] <bmonty> brandon_: yes, that is what dpkg-buildpackage does :)
[11:05] <brandon_> bmonty: so that and the deb is all i need to upload right?
[11:05] <hub> \sh: well, I think it does that on purpose
[11:06] <bmonty> brandon_: have you read the packaging guide? where are you trying to upload to?
[11:06] <hub> \sh: when I installed ubuntu-desktop over my kubuntu-desktop it did it
[11:06] <\sh> bmonty: no, it is definitly a bug...it shouldn't change the users first choice
[11:07] <bmonty> \sh: I agree
[11:07] <\sh> hub: ubuntu-desktop is doing that as well?
[11:07] <\sh> then it's a global problem
[11:07] <bmonty> at least not without asking you first
[11:07] <brandon_> to revu. i have read and followed the wiki guide for it, but it's not totally clear
[11:07] <\sh> hub: could you comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/49187 to clearify that ubuntu-desktop is doing the same?
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49187 in xubuntu-meta "xubuntu-desktop configures xubuntu as default session in kdm, even if its wrong" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]
[11:08] <bmonty> brandon_: you only upload source packages to revu which would consist of the .dsc and tarball you just made
[11:08] <brandon_> bmonty: i don't upload the deb? what's the point of not uploading the very file i want to give people access to?
[11:08] <\sh> brandon_: revu is not a repository for downloading
[11:08] <bmonty> brandon_: the .deb is built from the source package
[11:08] <hub> \sh: but I think it is the intended behaviour
[11:09] <\sh> hub: it shouldn't
[11:09] <hub> \sh: commented
[11:09] <\sh> hub: thx
[11:09] <bmonty> brandon_: all of this is in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide BTW
[11:10] <brandon_> i don't know where that is, but what i'm currently reading says ask for help here
[11:10] <hub> \sh: np
[11:10] <hub> http://fasmz.org/~pterjan/blog/?date=20060609#p01 <- sort of a troll
[11:10] <bmonty> brandon_: if you have dapper installed, look at System->Help->System Documentation
[11:11] <\sh> brandon_: sure...here is the right place to ask :) and we tell you now, upload to revu only source packages with .dsc,diff.gz and orig.tar.gz files ;)
[11:11] <bmonty> brandon_: the packaging guide is available from there
[11:12] <brandon_> i'll read it and memorize every word
[11:12] <bmonty> I hope you have a good memory :)
[11:18] <bmonty> later everyone
[11:22] <ajmitch> crimsun_: ping
[11:37] <Toadstool> g'night
[11:51] <brandon_> when i run the dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa command, where should the source.changes file be created?
[11:51] <hub> brandon_: in ..
[11:52] <hub> next to the .deb
[11:52] <hub> .dsc I mean
[11:52] <brandon_> it isn't being created
[11:53] <crimsun_> ajmitch: pong
[11:54] <brandon_> it looks like it's trying to sign the package with the original creator's key instead of mine
[11:54] <hub> brandon_: I remember some sort of bug
[11:55] <brandon_> my key is set as the default though
[11:57] <crimsun_> brandon_: use -kblahblah
[12:01] <ajmitch> crimsun_: playing doom3 again, got those alsa errors
[12:01] <ajmitch> looking at the console, it's not an uncommon error (according to google)
[12:01] <crimsun_> ajmitch: please pastebin?
[12:02] <ajmitch> same as on http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-80755.html
[12:03] <brandon_> crimson: thank you


[06:39] <Superhuman> Maaz, beer on!
[06:39] <Maaz> Superhuman: Sorry...
[06:39] <Superhuman> fine...
[06:40] <Superhuman> Maaz: coffee on
[06:40]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[06:44] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Superhuman!
[06:44] <Superhuman> Maaz: botsnack
[06:44] <Maaz> Yay, at last someone thinks about me as well
[07:01] <superfly> heh
[07:01] <superfly> morning Superhuman
[07:05] <Kilos> morning superfly nuvolari and others
[07:06] <Kilos> lo inetpro
[07:07] <superfly>  hiya Kilos
[07:09] <Superhuman> aweh superfly
[07:10] <Kilos> hi Superhuman
[07:10] <Superhuman> hey Kilos
[07:10] <Kilos> stranger
[07:10] <Superhuman> I'm not that strange!
[07:10] <superfly> Superhuman: you're *VERY* strange, and you know it!
[07:10] <Kilos> just quiet hey
[07:11] <Kilos> lol tell him fly
[07:11] <Superhuman> yeah, I'm strange...fine I admit it
[07:11] <Kilos> hehe
[07:12] <Superhuman> but everyone here is a little strange...you have to be, to work in IT...
[07:12] <Kilos> no man its where the future is
[07:12] <superfly> Superhuman: true, too true
[07:13] <Kilos> without IT the world will come to a stand still
[07:13] <Superhuman> IT people are a different species of Homo sapiens.
[07:14] <Superhuman> Kilos: that is why we don't have a union...if we strike, the whole world gets public holiday
[07:14] <superfly> homo sapiens technikus
[07:14] <Kilos> they just think differently
[07:14] <Kilos> lol
[07:17] <Superhuman> If I had the choice, I still wouldn't pick any other career...you're born into IT
[07:18] <superfly> absolutely
[07:25] <Kilos> later
[09:12] <Kilos> Maaz,  coffee on
[09:12]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[09:13] <Kilos> sigh forgot to have coffee this morning
[09:16] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[09:17] <Kilos> Maaz, dankie man
[09:17] <Maaz> Groot plesier my vriend
[09:39] <inetpro> good mornings
[09:41] <inetpro> Maaz: what's for lunch?
[09:41] <Maaz> inetpro: Coffee should be enough...
[09:41] <inetpro> yikes!
[10:47] <Kilos> Maaz, lunch time
[10:47] <Maaz> Yippee, Go fill your bellies guys, with whatever suits your fancy and pocket.
[10:50] <inetpro> Maaz: what's for lunch?
[10:50] <Maaz> inetpro: It feels like a KFC day
[10:51] <Kilos> lol hiya inetpro
[10:51] <inetpro> ahh, now that sounds better than just coffee
[10:51] <inetpro> hi Kilos
[10:51] <Kilos> kfc is really good
[10:51] <Kilos> actually found their recipe some time back
[10:54] <inetpro> Kilos: you did?
[10:54] <Kilos> yeah from some one that had left the company
[10:54] <inetpro> hmm... sounds very interesting
[10:54] <Kilos> i'll try find it. hope its still saved somewhere
[10:55] <inetpro> would love to be able to make it myself
[10:55] <Kilos> will let you know if i still have it
[10:55] <Kilos> should be good on fish as well
[10:55] <inetpro> then again there are probably quite a number of similar nice recipes
[10:56] <Kilos> many have tried but never got close to kfc flavour
[10:56] <inetpro> many things you can do with a bit of chicken
[10:58] <Kilos> can you copy paste from pastebin?
[10:58] <Kilos> i have 2
[10:58] <Banlam> chickens?
[10:59] <Kilos> hoenders Banlam
[10:59] <Kilos> as in KFC
[10:59] <Banlam> right
[10:59] <Banlam> not two live chickens at home?
[11:00] <Banlam> you were talking about chicken breeding the other day i believe
[11:00] <Kilos> yeah
[11:00] <Kilos> experimented for years with them
[11:00] <Banlam> experimented o.O
[11:01] <Kilos> breading for more meat etc
[11:01] <Kilos> the nice thing is they bread quick
[11:01] <superfly> *breed
[11:01] <Banlam> breed?
[11:01] <Kilos> 20 weeks and ready for next generation
[11:02] <Kilos> ty superfly
[11:02] <Banlam> evil mastermind Kilos
[11:02] <Kilos> lol
[11:03] <Banlam> do different breeds give you different sized eggs?
[11:03] <Banlam> or why does one get such a variation in egg sizes?
[11:03] <Kilos> normally by age and size of hen
[11:03] <Banlam> right
[11:03] <Kilos> start small then get bigger till they rewach max
[11:04] <Kilos> reach
[11:04] <Kilos> inetpro, http://slexy.org/view/s2VW9p7Fbn
[11:05] <Banlam> "Store for months"
[11:06] <Kilos> thats the dry mix
[11:06] <Kilos> like mixing salt pepper and storing that
[11:06] <Banlam> yeah
[11:06] <Banlam> i got that
[11:06] <Superhuman> why do I have the mental image of ninja chickens?
[11:07] <Banlam> just means i won't be eating home made KFC for three months ;)
[11:08] <Kilos> lol
[11:08] <Kilos> ninja chickens are too tough
[11:09] <Kilos> Banlam, the secret with chick breeding is to have them at slaughter size while they are still young and tender
[11:10] <Kilos> 6 weeks head off
[11:10] <Kilos> like veal
[11:10] <superfly> Swapping chicken breeding tips in IRC... that's how we roll!
[11:11] <Banlam> omnomnom
[11:11] <Kilos> haha
[11:12] <Kilos> it keeps the channel alive
[11:13] <Kilos> still gotta find the how to for mrs. balls original chutney
[11:21] <inetpro> Kilos: thanks, now all I need is a oil pressure cooker
[11:22] <Kilos> for what?
[11:22] <Kilos> use a normal pressure cooker with oil in to deep fry
[11:23] <Kilos> unless you gonna feed us all
[11:23] <Kilos> you can supply at release patries and install fests then
[11:24] <Kilos> *parties
[11:25] <inetpro> :-)
[11:31]  * Banlam would totally come to a release party tha thad home made KFC
[11:32] <Kilos> i think many will
[11:32] <Banlam> not that I wouldn't attend otherwise
[11:33] <Kilos> you in jhb hey?
[11:33] <Kilos> they have them at Irene club
[11:33] <Banlam> used to be in stellenbosch, now I'm in PE
[11:33] <Kilos> eish
[11:34] <Kilos> thats a bit far to go for a day
[11:34] <Banlam> went to 11.10, 11.04 and 10.04 I think
[11:34] <Banlam> yeah, slightly far
[11:35] <Kilos> hey zeref all well?
[11:52] <Kilos> hi royal_star this is an ubuntu community channel
[11:52] <Kilos> linux software
[11:54] <royal_star> helo
[11:55] <Kilos> hehe
[11:56] <Squirm> hi
[11:57] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[11:57] <Squirm> hello there Kilos
[11:57] <Squirm> nuvolari: any idea when you're heading home?
[12:08] <Kilos> avy magespawn
[12:08] <Kilos> wb psydroid
[12:08] <magespawn> Howdy
[12:11] <magespawn> What's up? Besides the prices.
[12:12] <superfly> hi magespawn
[12:12] <Kilos> all good here if you want the kfc recipe go to http://slexy.org/view/s2VW9p7Fbn
[12:12] <magespawn> Hey superfly
[12:13] <magespawn> Who put.that there?
[12:14] <Kilos> me
[12:15] <magespawn> How did you get it?
[12:16] <Kilos> whew was a while back. think i googled KFC secret herbs and spices
[12:16] <Kilos> ex kfc peeps put it online
[12:16] <magespawn> Thought it was copy righted
[12:18] <Banlam> the glories of anonomity and the internet
[12:19] <magespawn> You have to work quite hard to be truly unknown
[12:20] <Kilos> lol
[12:20] <Banlam> i stopped trying ages ago
[12:21] <Banlam> more and more often usign my real name as usernames etc
[12:21] <magespawn> Well I tend to keep certain things apart.
[12:23] <magespawn> What is a real name?
[12:25] <Kilos> haha shows here as banlam
[12:25] <Banlam> whois?
[12:26] <Kilos> with xchat you right click users and it shows real name
[12:26] <Banlam> yes
[12:26] <Banlam> which is from teh whois data
[12:26] <Kilos> yours says banlam
[12:26] <Banlam> yes
[12:26] <magespawn> Exactly, your legal name, the one your parents gave you, or what they out in as their real name.
[12:26] <Banlam> oh
[12:27] <Banlam> put it this way, i'm less concerned about keeping my online and real life identity separate as what I used to be
[12:27] <Banlam> sure my whois data doesn't reflect my real name
[12:27] <Banlam> my real name is Gareth
[12:27] <Banlam> but this IRC client has been setup for a long time
[12:28] <magespawn> Out = put. And all of those can be changed.
[12:28] <magespawn> You can get a id for very little money in some parts of the world.
[12:28] <magespawn> Later all, going to be driving now.
[12:28] <Kilos> toods magespawn
[12:29] <Banlam> most of my online accounts have links to my blog
[12:29] <Banlam> where i use my real name
[12:29] <Banlam> and links from there to my twitter and facebook accounts
[12:30] <Kilos> ah
[12:30] <Banlam> hmmm.. my nick used to receive much better success on google
[12:31] <Kilos> lol what do you call success
[12:31] <Banlam> correct hits
[12:34] <Kilos> they showed on the news that fb is full on into advertising but twitter is balking at the idea
[12:34] <Banlam> i get annoying adverts in twitter. they slyly put slot them into your feed
[12:35] <Kilos> i sometimes use twitter in pidgin but only get messages from contacts not everyone
[12:36] <Banlam> gtg, chat later
[12:36] <Kilos> toods Banlam
[12:37] <Kilos> bbl
[14:00] <WOLFEYES> Good day everyone.
[14:40] <Kilos> Happy Birthday Yola
[14:40] <Kilos> there used to be someone here from Yola. I forget who it was
[14:41] <Kilos> lo WOLFEYES
[14:42] <Kilos> Squirm, has nuvolari answered you yet?
[14:49] <zeref> Hi Kilos
[14:50] <Kilos> hi zeref all well there?
[14:50] <zeref> yeah, all is good here
[14:50] <Kilos> good
[15:06] <Kilos> bbl
[15:55]  * WOLFEYES waves
[15:55] <WOLFEYES> cheers all
[17:42] <magespawn> evening all
[17:53] <Kilos> evening superfly and others
[17:54] <Kilos> hey magespawn
[17:54] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[17:54]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[17:54] <magespawn> Howdy Kilos
[17:58] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[17:58] <Kilos> Maaz, thank you so much
[17:58] <Maaz> no worries, Kilos
[17:59] <Kilos> magespawn, you got that server goodie going?
[17:59] <magespawn> Which one? The one on windows?
[18:00] <Kilos> ya
[18:00] <magespawn> Not the ftp part, not sure why.
[18:01] <Kilos> whew and there no windows peeps for help on irc
[18:01] <Kilos> like xubuntu. no hurry to try help
[18:01] <Kilos> or the tinylinux peeps either
[18:02] <magespawn> Also partitioned the hard drive last night and installed ubuntu 10.04 server
[18:02] <Kilos> this must be the best irc help channel of them all
[18:02] <Kilos> ah
[18:03] <magespawn> The server on the windows side is not windows.software it is apache,.good ol open source
[18:04] <Kilos> yeah but what format, not linux
[18:05] <magespawn> Programming guys have done something to make it run on windows
[18:05] <Kilos> xp or win7
[18:05] <Kilos> your pc i mean
[18:05] <magespawn> Xp
[18:06] <magespawn> All the games are old ones no need for 7
[18:13] <Kilos> early night for me. night all. sleep tight
[18:14] <magespawn> Night Kilos
[18:39] <magespawn> Later all, good night.