[04:34] <DBO> ping mjg59
[04:37] <DBO> well I dont have a question for you, just a big thank you.  You have (unknowingly) answered a very important question for me
[04:37] <DBO> fixing my suspend issues
[04:37] <DBO> your blog, which really deserves a much better google page rank methinks had all the answers
[05:24] <DBO> awww, it worked twice, now it no worky...
[05:26] <DBO> mjg59, if you have a moment, could you help me with my suspend issue?
[14:26] <james_w> Hi all, can anybody give me a clue what component may be at fault in the following situation?
[14:27] <james_w> laptop lid is closed which causes it to suspend. The lid is then opened, and the power button pressed to resume. Upon resume /proc/acpi still reports the lid as being closed.
[14:27] <james_w> is it a faulty BIOS that isn't sending an event, or is it an ACPI problem?
[14:28] <james_w> is this something that can have a quirk added to workaround?
[17:14] <pwnguin> is there something going on with toshiba_acpi still?


[23:11] <tsimonq2> guiverc_t: Subject
[23:11] <tsimonq2> :P
[23:15] <pleia2> happens to the best of us :)


[01:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Lubuntu Blog: Lubuntu Development Newsletter #11 @ https://lubuntu.me/lubuntu-development-newsletter-11/
[12:21] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: LibreOffice 6.1 Gets First Point Release with More Than 120 Bug Fixes @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/libreoffice-6-1-gets-first-point-release-with-more-than-120-bug-fixes-522675.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[13:33] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: KDE Plasma 5.13 Desktop Reaches End of Life, KDE Plasma 5.14 Arrives October 9 @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-13-desktop-reaches-end-of-life-kde-plasma-5-14-arrives-october-9-522681.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[14:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Wobbly Windows are Making a Comeback @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=135216 (by Joey Sneddon)
[14:45] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Life is Strange: Before the Storm Is Out Now for Linux and macOS @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/life-is-strange-before-the-storm-is-out-now-for-linux-and-macos-522678.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[18:53] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: KDE Plasma 5.14 Desktop Environment Enters Beta with New Features, Improvements @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-14-desktop-environment-enters-beta-with-new-features-improvements-522679.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[19:17] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Simos Xenitellis: How to run Julia on Jupyter in a LXD container @ https://blog.simos.info/how-to-run-julia-on-jupyter-in-a-lxd-container/
[21:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Daniel Pocock: What is the difference between moderation and censorship? @ https://danielpocock.com/what-is-the-difference-between-moderation-and-censorship
[22:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Kelly: API Changes in Clang @ https://steveire.wordpress.com/2018/09/13/api-changes-in-clang/


[04:22] <workthrick> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport<EMAIL_ADDRESS>local urls must start with file:///, UNC path urls must start with file://
[04:22] <workthrick> any idea why that happens?
[04:22] <workthrick> http://pastebin.com/V6HeubrE is a fuller output
[04:23] <workthrick> this is on win32, and it worked before
[04:23] <workthrick> (but the local repo and working tree has since been recreated)
[04:24] <workthrick> also previous colo-sync-from which I used to create the repo worked fine
[04:25] <workthrick> oh, hmm
[04:25] <workthrick> light checkout root: .
[04:25] <workthrick>    checkout of branch<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:25] <workthrick> this is wrong, it should be .bzr/branches/gtk
[08:22] <gour> morning
[08:23] <gour> i'd like to use bzr for git-based project and wonder if 'explorer' will use dpush when i push to github or i've to use cli?
[08:24] <AuroraBorealis> what is dpush? :o
[08:25] <gour> AuroraBorealis: from the help "Purpose: Push into a different VCS without any custom bzr metadata."
[08:26] <AuroraBorealis> you can run a 'custom command' in explorer
[08:26] <AuroraBorealis> or just use the  command line if it doesn't have a explicit option to dpush
[08:26] <gour> ok
[08:46] <gour> i dpushed my branch to the github, but i do not see it listed at github which still shows only original braches from the forked repo
[08:47] <gour> i created shared repo, pull from github. created 'feature' branch locally and pushed back to github...what am i missing or how to use 'feature branch' workflow to contribute to github project?
[08:48] <AuroraBorealis> feature branch is just a trunk branch inside a shared repo
[08:49] <AuroraBorealis> not a trunk branch but just some branch inside a shared repo
[08:49] <AuroraBorealis> so you just dpush the branch to github i guess :o
[08:50] <gour> right...i cloned pulled-ed github branch in order to work on it and wanted to push it back (afer commiting some fixes)
[08:50] <AuroraBorealis> so you would probably dpush that back
[08:51] <gour> but that 'new' branch (named as 'doc-fixes') was dpushed back to github, but it's not listed there :-/
[08:51] <AuroraBorealis> maybe it takes a minute?
[08:51] <gour> hmm
[08:52] <AuroraBorealis> wait like 20 min then try again i guess
[08:52] <AuroraBorealis> or maybe dpush is bugged or something o.o
[08:53] <gour> i believe it's something else...like some github idiosync...
[08:54] <gour> hopefully jelmer or someone experienced with bzr-git & github will appear
[08:55] <AuroraBorealis> heh.
[12:11] <gour> what is the status of colo-branches in bzr? are they going to appear in 2.4?
[12:21] <d_ed> heya, I'm new to bzr. (coming from git) and can't find out the name of the command I want to do the follow
[12:21] <d_ed> Ive made some commits in a branch
[12:21] <d_ed> i want to remove one of them
[12:21] <d_ed> (like gits, interactive rebase, and not pick one of the commits)
[12:21] <d_ed> is this possible?
[12:22] <gour> in same file?
[12:23] <d_ed> yeah
[12:23] <d_ed> if it's not trivial, I'll just sort something out by hand
[12:25] <gour> maybe you can try withe shelve
[12:27] <d_ed> it's alright. I'll make a new branch then apply patches of the parts I do want
[12:27] <d_ed> *new branch from master
[12:28]  * gour is usung fossil atm considering to switch to bzr
[12:28] <d_ed> it's so hard trying to switch betweem RCS systems
[12:28] <d_ed> I'm normally on git, except for one project, and I'm sure bzr is just as good, but it's nonetheless different
[12:29] <d_ed> and that gets so confusing
[12:29] <d_ed> especially when the same word mean different things
[12:29]  * gour thinks git is too complex
[12:29] <gour> fortunately, there is fast-import machanism to switch
[16:20] <mgz> `hg clone -b 2.7 . 2.7` ...that looks a little funny
[16:20] <LarstiQ> d__ed: you can use the bzr-rewrite plugin
[16:21] <LarstiQ> mgz: what does that mean?
[16:21] <LarstiQ> mgz: clone the branch/tag called 2.7 from the current dir to the dir 2.7?
[16:22] <mgz> yup. I'm not sure the way the cpython repo is structured really makes sense to me.
[16:22] <mgz> but then, neither does what mercurial calls branches.
[16:23] <mgz> can't work on bzr without a newer python now though, and no point testing against my rusty svn copy.
[16:24] <mgz> larstiq: getting to merging the rest of my test cleanup branch which should reduce the number of things to file bugs about for pypy support
[16:25] <mgz> ha... and that mercurial command did the wrong thing, created the working tree in the cwd rather than the 2.7 dir
[16:25] <mgz> perhaps branching into a subdir upset it.
[16:26]  * LarstiQ blinks
[16:26] <LarstiQ> mgz: possibly :)
[16:26] <LarstiQ> mgz: and yay test cleanup \o/
[16:26] <mgz> ...now it's got a working tree in both dirs. probably just overwrote the no trees setting.
[16:28] <LarstiQ> mgz: about things failing on pyp, as you know the multi byte codec test fails. Not very surprising considering https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/src/7f593e7877d4/pypy/module/_multibytecodec/app_multibytecodec.py
[16:29] <mgz> heh.
[16:29] <LarstiQ> mgz: I didn't manage extracting a small example from bzr to disprove Armin's assumption there
[16:29] <mgz> well, he's wrong
[16:29] <LarstiQ> I guessed as much :)
[16:30] <LarstiQ> mgz: and was hoping you could give me some pointers
[16:30] <mgz> the module isn't well maintained these days
[16:30] <mgz> but is likely to in use for anyone on a ckj terminal
[16:32] <mgz> various applications use streamwriters to put things on the terminal, and look at sys.stdout.encoding to create them
[16:36]  * LarstiQ generates a ja_JP.EUC-JP locale
[16:37] <mgz> ...the pypy version I have installed doesn't set sys.stdout.encoding at all, which might be why they've not got bug reports
[16:37] <mgz> or they've fixed that since 1.2.0
[16:38] <LarstiQ> mgz: it's None in my nightly from a couple of days ago
[16:38] <mgz> okay, that's the main bug then.
[16:38] <mgz> if pypy isn't detecting terminal encoding printing unicode just doesn't work.
[16:39]  * LarstiQ wonders how to test that
[16:40] <LarstiQ> my terminal inteprets the utf8 back again when I think it shouldn't
[16:40] <mgz> print u"\xa7" # or similar?
[16:41] <LarstiQ> ah, that works (as in, gives me a UnicodeEncodeError)
[16:41] <mgz> if it works, perhaps they've got the default locale set to utf-8 now?
[16:41] <mgz> ^good good.
[16:42] <LarstiQ> and it does indeed work in cpython
[16:43] <mgz> It's likely most of the unicode related tests are being skipped on pypy then.
[16:43] <mgz> see bzrlib.tests._UnicodeFilesystemFeature implementation
[16:43]  * LarstiQ hasn't been able to run the full testsuite yet
[16:44] <mgz> if we can't stat a unicode name, we don't run the test, so output bugs are probably also not being exposed.
[16:44] <mgz> one thing I do is run useful test subsets.
[16:44] <LarstiQ> mgz: I can run all the blackbox tests, off-hand I don't recall any skipped tests due to unicode feature
[16:45] <mgz> hm.
[16:45] <mgz> maybe that step now works? which would be good.
[16:45] <mgz> at least utf-8 would be being output correctly then.
[16:46] <mgz> `os.stat(u"\xa7")` on pypy 1.2.0 raises UnicodeEncodeError for me, but that may be windows only/since fixed
[16:47] <mgz> the `-s bt.test_` subset is quite good as an alternative to `-s bb.`
[16:47] <LarstiQ> mgz: gives a UnicodeEncodeError on the nightly
[16:49] <mgz> so, when I get the test cleanup stuff landed, we probably want bugs filed for all the remaining failures
[16:49] <LarstiQ> bweh, 10 seconds per test
[16:49] <LarstiQ> mgz: yup
[16:49] <mgz> ugh.
[16:52]  * LarstiQ will make an account on bugs.pypy.org in the next weeks
[16:53] <LarstiQ> mgz: thanks!
[16:53]  * LarstiQ goes cooking
[16:53] <mgz> bye!
[16:54] <gour> anyone using bzr-git with github?
[16:55] <gour> i wonder how to push my branch tobe visible at github, if possible or is it better to (as i did) import git repo to LP, use bzr and then just email 'bzr send' bundle to git-repo maintainers?
[17:00] <mgz> hm, I suspect they might prefer a plain patch. jelmer probably knows how well bzr-git works with github.
[17:00] <gour> mgz: 'send' bundle  has too much 'context'?
[17:04] <mgz> I doubt git understands the extra metadata in the bundle, they had a different method of doing the same thing.
[17:05] <gour> i just wonder what's the easiest way to submit patch(es) to git-based project by using bzr
[17:07] <mgz> it's a good question.
[17:08] <james_w> I think there is bzr send --format=git now
[17:10] <gour> i read the following in the manual: "They can also be useful when communicating with upstream projects that don’t use Bazaar. In particular, the preview of the overall change in a merge directive looks like a vanilla software patch, so they can be applied using patch -p0 for example."
[17:10] <gour> in regard to merge directives
[17:10] <gour> james_w: in 2.4?
[17:11] <james_w> I'm not sure when it was added
[17:12] <gour> sounds good
[17:16] <gour> james_w: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr-git/send/revision/533
[18:30]  * workthrick looks around for jelmer
[20:22] <mgz> I'm having trouble resuming my collection branch from jam's partial merges
[20:23] <mgz> if I merge the current version to dev it has some of the changes that have already landed, and misses the most important bits in bzrlib.tests
[20:24] <mgz> presumably this relates to the "Warning: criss-cross merge encountered.  See bzr help criss-cross." I get
[20:24]  * gour played/used bzr after long time today....very pleased with it
[20:24] <mgz> but it's odd that the merge command lists bzrlib/tests/__init__.py
[20:24] <mgz> but bzr diff on that file is empty
[20:25] <gour> i sent test 'bundle' with git format hoping it's possible to apply it upstream
[20:25] <mgz> I think maybe what jam did works on branches where he works in his normal fashion, but something in my branch history broke it?
[20:26] <mgz> I'm not sure what the fix is then as two partial merges are already on bzr.dev


[00:02] <layn> Hi!!!
[00:03] <penguin42> hi
[02:07] <anzenketh> Not sure what to do with bug 529794
[02:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 529794 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Lucid 10.04 Alpha3 network-manager 0.8 fails to connect on boot Huawei E172 3G USB modem (affects: 4) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529794
[06:08] <Thingymebob> is Bug #503443 intended behaviour
[06:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 503443 in ubuntu "console showing old content after folder renamed in other console (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503443
[06:10] <micahg> Thingymebob: idk, probably would depends on teh filesystem
[06:11] <Thingymebob> I see it on ext4, also if you create a file in term1 it then appears in the moved dir in term2
[06:11] <Thingymebob> So a file system issue or bash
[06:12] <delan_> if Bug #503443 is linked to an upstream Gnome bug, but then the upstream bug is marked as a duplicate of another Gnome bug, should I change the Ubuntu bug reference to the original?
[06:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 503443 in ubuntu "console showing old content after folder renamed in other console (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503443
[06:12] <delan_> whoops
[06:12] <delan_> not 503443
[06:12] <delan_> but actually, bug #657545
[06:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657545 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gnome-shell doesn't remember how many workspaces you have (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657545
[06:12] <micahg> delan_: already fixed :)
[06:12] <micahg> delan_: but, generally, we just update the upstream but to the new one
[06:13] <delan_> ah, ok then, thanks
[06:13] <delan_> just another question about the bug importance,
[06:13] <delan_> is it 'low' merely because gnome-shell is a non-default app, and therefore only a small amount of people are exposed?
[06:14] <delan_> and if so, what would the importance of this bug be, if gnome-shell were to be the Ubuntu default wm?
[06:15] <micahg> delan_: if it was a default app, I might have made it medium, have you read the importance wiki page?
[06:15] <delan_> yes, i have.
[06:15] <delan_> i've just had another look at the importance page now
[06:16] <micahg> delan_: ok, I also figure it's easily worked around, is this not correct (doesn't really matter since upstream will have to fix it)
[06:16] <delan_> work around being, "re-add workspaces each time gnome-shell is started"? if so, then that is correct.
[06:16] <delan_> it satisfies the "bug that has a moderate impact on a non-core application" criteria for low
[06:16] <micahg> delan_: yep
[06:17] <delan_> thanks for that
[06:17] <micahg> delan_: np, if you have any patches for more bug fixes, I'm happy to sponsor if I can
[06:52] <AbhiJit> hey vish
[06:52] <AbhiJit> my mentorship is expiring? :( what to do?
[06:52] <AbhiJit> :'(
[06:53] <AbhiJit> charlie-tca, hggdh ping
[07:00] <stanley_robertso> hi all
[07:01] <micahg> AbhiJit: both are most likely asleep
[07:02] <AbhiJit> micahg, :(
[07:02] <AbhiJit> helllo stanley_robertso
[07:46] <stanley_robertso> hi AbhiJit
[07:47] <AbhiJit> hows ya stanley_robertso
[08:45] <RedSingularity> If anyone in here works with transmission a lot please send a message my way.  I have a bug that I am having trouble with.  The user is getting an interesting message when shutting down transmission and I have a feeling this may lead to a solution if someone knows what it means.  Its a Glib-GObject-warning.  bug 655024  Thanks guys :)
[08:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 655024 in transmission (Ubuntu) "Using higher cpu usage (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655024
[08:45] <micahg> RedSingularity: kklimonda works on transmission IIRC
[08:46] <RedSingularity> micahg:  He is not on now is he?
[08:48] <amibacha> hello those anybody here know how to hack for smtp
[08:48] <amibacha> hello those anybody here know how to hack for smtp
[08:48] <amibacha> hello those anybody here know how to hack for smtp
[08:48] <maco> not on topic here
[08:48] <micahg> amibacha: one time suffices, but #ubuntu-server is more appropriate
[08:50] <RedSingularity> micahg:  Any way to send him a PM he will receive when returning?
[08:51] <AbhiJit> RedSingularity, use memoserv
[08:51] <micahg> RedSingularity: he'll see your comments in the channel
[08:51] <AbhiJit>  /msg memoserv sent <nick> [messege]
[08:53] <RedSingularity> Alright good enough.  Gnite guys :)
[09:20] <Thingymebob> bug #503443 looks like bash intended behaviour, what should I set status to?
[09:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 503443 in ubuntu "console showing old content after folder renamed in other console (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503443
[09:29] <micahg> Thingymebob: move to bash and mark confirmed?
[09:30] <Thingymebob> micahg: Thx
[09:31] <micahg> Thingymebob: maintainer can mark won't fix if he thinks it should be that
[09:32] <ansgar> Thingymebob: It's not a bug.  The bash process is still in .../dir1 even when it has been renamed.
[09:32] <ansgar> Thingymebob: Every program behaves that way.  Except for the "Even worst:" part which should not happen (and does not for me).
[09:33] <micahg> ansgar: there is a workaround, so maintainer should choose
[09:42] <Thingymebob> I agree it's not a bug, though if I invoke pwd -P, env pwd /bin/pwd would it not be reasonable to expect env var $PWD to refresh
[09:43] <ansgar> Thingymebob: No.  See the last reply in http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.shells.bash.bugs/15335
[09:44] <ansgar> Thingymebob: zsh behaves the same, as I believe do all other shells.
[09:44] <Thingymebob> ansgar: Thanks thats cleared that up
[09:44] <Thingymebob> I get it now
[11:21] <xteejx> Morning all!
[11:22] <xteejx> bdmurray: Hi Brian, can I have my BugControl membership renewed please? :)
[11:25] <mgunes> xteejx: it's a better idea to post to the ubuntu-bugcontrol mailing list about that
[11:25] <xteejx> mgunes: Ahh ok, will do that thank you :)
[11:27] <nigelb> wooo, the cat is out! meerkat is here \o/
[11:29] <xteejx> Certainly is! Although I can't help wondering if there should've been a slogan like "It's SIMPLES" lol
[12:18] <BUGabundo> happy 101010 and happy 10.10 release
[13:51] <yabruss> Hello
[13:53] <penguin42> hi
[13:54] <yabruss> Is this a chat for Ubuntu Bug Squad team member ?
[13:54] <BUGabundo> yes
[13:54] <penguin42> yes as well as anyone else who wants to help triage bugs
[13:55] <yabruss> I am not very custum with chat ... isn't it night for most of the US now ?
[13:55] <jpds> yabruss: No, they're waking up even now.
[13:55] <penguin42> yabruss: East side of US will start waking up soon, anyway there are us in the rest of the world!
[13:56] <yabruss> Yes ... I mean ... our is this chat useful if half of the team is sleeping when it happends ?
[13:57] <yabruss> Just wondering our this may work ...
[13:57] <penguin42> yabruss: It's not like a formal meeting or anything
[13:57] <penguin42> yabruss: It's just things like 'anyone know what to do with this bug'
[13:59] <yabruss> Ha ok ... chat interface should then be considered only as a "Bug management FAQ quick answering machine" ? ;o)
[14:00] <penguin42> and some less frequently asked questions :-)
[14:01] <yabruss> Ok ... I have then a question:
[14:03] <yabruss> I remarked than on LaunchPad the quickest way to make a bug disappear it to mark it as duplicate of another bug.
[14:03] <yabruss>  So I think useful to work into bug around the same topic and to tidy-up making the duplicate of it ...
[14:04] <yabruss> Is it correct ?
[14:06] <penguin42> sorry, I don't understand what you mean
[14:10] <yabruss> Ok ... let's say that most of the time users do not spend much time searching if there bug have a dupplicate entry. So I am asking what is the procedure to mark dupplicate bug around a technical topic (Wireless, Audio/Video, USB, softwares ...)
[14:10] <penguin42> yabruss: If the bug is the _same_ as per your understanding (but not in the Linux package) then mark it as a duplicate
[14:10] <penguin42> yabruss: You might add a comment saying why you think it's the same
[14:11] <yabruss> The problem is: because marking a bug as dupplicate is the best way to vanish it from searches, how do you choose witch one is the best to keep.
[14:13] <penguin42> yabruss: If they are the same bug then I mark the newer one as a duplicate of the older one, so you keep the one with the older number
[14:13] <penguin42> yabruss: That's what I normally do unless for example the newer one had a much better description
[14:14] <yabruss> Ok ... thanks
[14:16] <yabruss> Another question: I saw that Bug-Squad team as no Forum ... did i miss it ?
[14:17] <persia> I don't think so: we tend to use bugs for most of our work, and the mailing list or this channel for the remainder.
[14:17] <persia> Documentation ends up on the wiki.
[14:22] <yabruss> Haaa ... and I suppose there is no chance that a tiny voice like me that think that mailing list is messy and obsolete and that chat is nice but messy also and hard to follow because of earth time lag, will make Ubuntu work habits change ? ;o)
[14:23] <persia> yabruss, I doubt it.  We don't tend to use the mailing list for very much, mostly only proposals for workflow changes.
[14:24] <persia> And we all know IRC is ephemeral, so don't expect it to persist.
[14:24] <persia> 95% of stuff happens in Launchpad, and I can't imagine any reason we'd want to use anything other than the wiki for documentation.
[14:24] <yabruss> What do you mean by persist ? It will be abandonned for another tool ?
[14:24] <persia> What do you imagine would be the content of a forum?
[14:25] <persia> We don't tend to use IRC for anything we expect to be meaningful over time.
[14:27] <yabruss> Forum for : Team life, member skill sharing, bug statistics and sum-up at a time, neewbe coocooning, priority discussion, work affectation ...
[14:28] <persia> Team life usually comes from the sense of togetherness we have with each other here, and we want realtime for that, because lots of it needs realtime.
[14:28] <persia> We try to document skills on the wiki, or explain here if it's confusing.  It's important that newcomers can visit up-to-date and accurate documentaiton without having to wade through the history.
[14:29] <persia> The bug statistics are semi-automated, and end up on the qa reports site.  I'm not sure it's worth anyone's time to copy them periodically.
[14:29] <persia> I'm not sure what you mean by "neewbw coocooning"
[14:30] <yabruss> Also for : organizing relationship with other projects (Gnome, Firefox ...) ... for me Internet Community Life = Forum with a good admin.
[14:30] <persia> We have a fairly strict defintion of "importance", and tend to let each person set their own priorities for which bugs to investigate (although we all have suggestions).  it's a better thing for folk to do what they want and enjoy than to fuss about having a focus for the team.
[14:31] <persia> I'm also not sure what you mean by "work affectation"
[14:31] <persia> We need to coordinate with other projects in their bug trackers, rather than their forums.  They expect that.
[14:32] <yabruss> Ok ... but user that get into a team would like a bit more efficiency I think (in termes of human organization) ?
[14:32] <persia> Just to be clear, I'm not telling you not to create a forum if you like, I'm just telling you why I think it's not necessary.
[14:32] <yabruss> To get more human organization and efficiency
[14:32] <persia> The current requirement for membership is to press one button on launchpad.  I'm unsure how to make it more efficient.
[14:32] <yabruss> Admin can do
[14:33] <yabruss> You want to stay into the team ... then work
[14:33] <persia> Doesn't that imply waiting for someone to do something?
[14:33] <persia> Right now, someone can press a button and get started.  no waiting for anyone else.
[14:36] <yabruss> ;o) Just that discussion because I was involved into a community recently only working with a Forum. I noticed there that people can enjoy being challenged while only reward by a nice group membership and that it can really bring efficiency.
[14:37] <persia> Oh, I agree that challenge combined with group membership brings both efficiency and a sense of satisfaction to participants.
[14:38] <yabruss> I got more involved intu Ubuntu community a few month ago and was very lost on how it may work ?!?
[14:38] <persia> I just happen to think the teams who hang out here (bug squad, bug control) tend to have that without using a forum today.
[14:38] <persia> and I'm not convinced that an expectation to follow a forum wouldn't reduce people's time to follow the bugs.
[14:39] <persia> Yeah, it's huge and there's *lots* of different ways to get involved, and *lots* of different stuff to do, and that means it's too easy to get lost.
[14:40] <xteejx> persia: Hey persia :)
[14:40] <yabruss>  "tend to have that without using a forum today" Ok so how do they manage (and who exactly) human in their team ?
[14:41] <persia> Well, we chat here, and we see each other's work on the bugs, and when we come to decisions, we put them on the wiki.
[14:41] <ansgar> yabruss: In my opinion, web forums are not very helpful when you need to interact with different communities.  Mailing lists are easier to follow than several web forums (possibly using different software).
[14:41] <persia> We have meetings to discuss stuff that needs to be discussed as a whole team.
[14:42] <ansgar> Personally I don't like upstreams that only use forums (and no mailing lists), because it takes more time for me to reach them.  And to follow discussions there.
 good morning (or whatever, in your TZ)
[14:43] <xteejx> 2:42 pm ;)
[14:43] <hggdh> 08:43 :-) yeah, I overslept
[14:43] <xteejx> :)
[14:43] <hggdh> xteejx: so you are back?
[14:43] <xteejx> hggdh: I am indeed ;)
[14:43] <persia> ansgar, I prefer upstreams that use bug trackers :)
[14:44] <hggdh> xteejx: glad to hear... I will take care of your membership on -control (in a few min)
[14:44] <xteejx> hggdh: Cool, thanks :)
[14:44] <xteejx> I still have access but it goes in 2 days
[14:44] <xteejx> Only been away 2 months I think
[14:50] <hggdh> xteejx: done
[14:50] <xteejx> hggdh: Nice one, thanks for that :)
[14:50] <hggdh> xteejx: my pleasure
[14:52] <yabruss> persia: may you indicate me what is then the best entry point to discover Ubuntu community ? By best I meen: where all is summaried (you talk about QA site, I remember now it took me hours to find it).
[14:53] <persia> yabruss, I don't believe "best" has other than personal meaning.
[14:53] <xteejx> yabruss: Everything regarding BugSquad, BugControl and all information on how to get involved, etc is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[14:54] <persia> yabruss, That said, I believe you will find it easiest to get involved with each aspect of the Ubuntu community separately.  Depending on which methods you prefer to use to communicate and collaborate, you'll find other people with whom to do things.
[14:55] <persia> If you're interested in bug triage, you've found us here, and you're more than welcome to help.  Check the wiki for docs, ask questions if you have them.  Ask for help whenever you're unsure about bugs: even people who have been in bugsquad since launchpad started ask for help here on tricky bugs.
[14:57] <penguin42> the firehose doesn't seem to be as high pressure as I'd expected to be at this point
[14:57] <xteejx> penguin42: Bit of a random comment lol
[14:58] <yabruss> Ok ... I see ... actually where i get "frustrated" is that i cannot talk to everyone in the team having a discussion on a topic of my skils only (Chat and maillist mix all subjects)
[14:58] <penguin42> xteejx: Well I would have expected bugs to be coming in much higher rate at this point
[14:58] <xteejx> penguin42: Same here, maybe they're all watching the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, 101010 = 42 ;)
[14:59] <yabruss> Try $DEADBEEF
[14:59]  * penguin42 hands xteejx a bowl of petunias
[15:00]  * xteejx laughs out loud
[15:00] <persia> penguin42, Side effect of LTS+1 : folks don't get auto-prompted for upgrade.
[15:00] <penguin42> persia: Ah makes sense
[15:00] <xteejx> I never thought of that, it's set to "Long-term release only"...on another note, must say I'm liking the new Ubuntu font
[15:01] <xteejx> Still annoyed the IRC window scrolling horizontally in emapthy though when typing :(
[15:02] <persia> xteejx, File an upstream bug: that gets confusing fast.
[15:02] <yabruss> Still annoyed by my laptop that overheat if I let both CPU to go over 800MHz
[15:02] <xteejx> persia: Upstream were made aware 6 months ago
[15:02] <persia> xteejx, Hrm.  Dunno then.
[15:03] <xteejx> I can live with it, will just type shorter messages :)
[15:03] <persia> yabruss, That sounds like it needs a hardware solution.
[15:03] <xteejx> yabruss: Isn't an HP/Compaq laptop is it??
[15:03] <yabruss> Question: I see Upstream word being used a lot here... what does it mean please ?
[15:03] <yabruss> No Toshiba Satelite
[15:03] <penguin42> yabruss: Where the package is developed
[15:04] <persia> yabruss, We imagine free software to be like a river system.  Upstream means closer to the wellspring of creation (the original authors), downstream means closer to the intermingled ocean (user installs)
[15:04] <penguin42> yabruss: e.g. Ubuntu uses Linux now you can report a bug in Ubuntu's bug tracker against linux and there is a bug tracker for Linux itself, so when you are fairly sure the bug isn't just Ubuntu specific you can report the bug 'upstream' into the main Linux bug tracker
[15:04] <xteejx> Upstream = developer - simple as that
[15:05] <persia> No.
[15:05] <yabruss> ok
[15:05] <persia> xteejx, Debian is also upstream to Ubuntu, but downstream from the current maintainer (who may be downstream from the original author)
[15:06] <xteejx> Well it's a little more complex than that I realise, but essentially to make it easier I said developer
[15:06] <yabruss> Is there a map of the river in QA site ? ;o) [I know the answer]
[15:06] <persia> And often developers (especially funded developers) will work somewhere downstream (on their own projects), and push finished work upstream (for everyone to build on)
[15:06] <persia> yabruss, It's impossible to map: it's far too large.
[15:06] <xteejx> No, sorry
[15:07] <charlie-tca> But this gives us the some of the upstream bug trackers - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers
[15:07] <yabruss> persia: I don agreen because everything into Ubuntu scope should be the base of bug-squad ;o)
[15:08] <xteejx> Think of it as a flowchart with each development or piece as a separate box, all of which connect to make the entire workflow, from developer to Debian/Ubuntu, down to say Linux Mint (Ubuntu-based distro), but of course UYbuntu contributes back to Debian and developers, so it would be far too complex to show in one image
[15:08] <persia> What?  Why?
[15:08] <xteejx> Easier to visualise
[15:09] <yabruss> persia: I mean that bug hunters finally achieve to say that a bug is into or not  Ubuntu scope
[15:09] <persia> No.  We aren't nearly that presumptous.
[15:10] <persia> Mostly we try to make sure bugs are able to be understood.  If they cannot be understood, we mark them as such.
[15:10] <xteejx> Now we DO have a graphic for that on the wiki...bug workflow
[15:10] <persia> When they can be understood, we try to ensure they are documented well enough for folks who want to fix them to do so.
[15:10] <persia> Sometimes we fix them too, but when we do that, we're often wearing other hats.
[15:11] <xteejx> yabruss: Our workflow is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/WorkFlow
[15:11] <xteejx> If you take a look at that, it will tell you how things progress
[15:14]  * penguin42 throws another brick of coal on the mirrors
[15:15] <xteejx> Don't think they're gonna fire up properly for a few days til the news of 10.10 hit's the social news sites and people are made aware
[15:15] <persia> mirrors are having a bad time today.  My release mirror was up-to-date 15 hours ago, but has spent the past 7 just churning (and at a decent transfer rate).  Something feels different from other release days.
[15:16] <yabruss> I have to say whoaou ! ... Because I saw how quick it can be to have disturbing people or also how quick a "war" can begin into a web community ... I am wondering if it is sane to let user have all those rights ...
[15:16] <xteejx> persia: Are there a lot of downloads?
[15:18] <yabruss> I have to go ... thanks for chatting
[15:21] <xteejx> What is this new Opinion status used for??
[15:23] <penguin42> xteejx: It means you can flag something that someone doesn't like something even if it's not strictly a bug
[15:24] <xteejx> penguin42: So another status for something which we MIGHT send to brainstorm?
[15:24] <penguin42> not sure how that works
[15:25] <charlie-tca> Sort of a "we are not going to fix this, but feel free to use it as a forum
[15:25] <xteejx> Right, got it :)
[15:25] <xteejx> So the 64-bit debate bug would be a good example
[15:26] <penguin42> which one is that?
[15:26] <xteejx> hang on
[15:26] <penguin42> damn; I've just looked at a bug on a game package and ended up playing it :-)
[15:26] <charlie-tca> did it work?
[15:27] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Yes, it's actually a clash between two packages - spider and ace-of-penguins both install /usr/games/spider
[15:27] <charlie-tca> heh
[15:27] <persia> xteejx, Downloads from my mirror?  Not so many, but that's because it's complicated to get to, and there are a couple of much better mirrors geographically near to here.
[15:28] <xteejx> persia: Ah right, just being nosey wanting to see if 10/10/10 is a good day for downloading our new release :)
[15:28] <persia> If you use the torrents, it's an *excellent* day :)
[15:28] <xteejx> lol
[15:29] <xteejx> Hmm, can't seem to find that 64 bit bug
[15:30] <nigelb> +1 on torrents :P
[15:30] <xteejx> Maybe it was set Fix Released, sod trying to find it
[15:31] <xteejx> Anyway guys I'm off for a bit to watch Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (it is 42 today after all) ;)
[15:31] <xteejx> Catch ya's later
[15:44] <hggdh> but it should be use with care
[15:44] <hggdh> heh. wrong channel
[15:51] <penguin42> heck, we're getting all the one line bug reports :-(
[15:56] <penguin42> has anyone seen anything else like bug 657711 - I'm sure other people have said they've seen the same thing
[15:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657711 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "No shutdown or reboot option available after live install (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657711
[15:57] <hggdh> penguin42: I did not see it, but when I select restart I am thrown back into GDM (instead of a reboot)
[15:58] <penguin42> hggdh: Hmm I'm sure I've seen a bug for that as well somewhere
[15:59] <hggdh> I do not doubt, I just did not have time to get to it (not critical)
[16:01] <MichealH> There are lots of bugs in 10.10
[16:01]  * MichealH sigh
[16:02] <MichealH> I will be looking around LP and get someone to triage bugs
[16:02] <MichealH> With my incy tiny screen
[16:10] <MichealH> hggdh: Around?
[16:10] <hggdh> MichealH: here
[16:10] <MichealH> I have a possible bug to triage
[16:10] <hggdh> you mean you are triaging a bug?
[16:11] <MichealH> hggdh: I dont have the permissions
[16:11] <hggdh> MichealH: which bug?
[16:12] <MichealH> #657691
[16:12] <MichealH> Bug 657691
[16:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657691 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "screen rotation "destroys" X (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657691
[16:12] <hggdh> for the record -- 'triaging a bug' means figuring out what it is about, not 'marking a bug triaged'
[16:12] <MichealH> I think it should be High for Importance
[16:14] <persia> MichealH, How small is your screen?
[16:14] <hggdh> MichealH: how did you confirm this bug?
[16:14] <MichealH> persia: I am getting a 800x600 resolution
[16:15] <MichealH> hggdh: By rotating my screen and it did destroy my screen
[16:15] <MichealH> persia: And I can't 'Xorg - configure' I get a "Cant find screen"
[16:15] <MichealH> Then it ha a seg fault
[16:16] <MichealH> :L
[16:18] <AbhiJit> vish, ping
[16:18] <hggdh> MichealH: and you have the same hardware?
[16:18] <MichealH> hggdh: Roughly
[16:18] <AbhiJit> hggdh, me mentorship is about to expire. email says to contact you. so what should i do?
[16:19] <AbhiJit> my*
[16:19]  * persia suspects it's just been done
[16:19] <AbhiJit> :o
[16:19] <BUGabundo_movies> vish: http://abstrusegoose.com/303
[16:19] <AbhiJit> done what?
[16:20] <AbhiJit> hggdh, ??
[16:20] <AbhiJit> helloo??
[16:20] <hggdh> AbhiJit: patience is a virtue
[16:20] <AbhiJit> :(
[16:21] <hggdh> AbhiJit: what is your launchpad id?
[16:21] <MichealH> Imma see if I can find more bugs :(
[16:22] <MichealH> See ays
[16:22] <AbhiJit> https://launchpad.net/~abhi-navale hggdh
[16:25] <hggdh> AbhiJit: I extended you for one more month
[16:25] <AbhiJit> hggdh, only one month?
[16:25] <AbhiJit> because this i have exams in dec. so i am not doing much in this next 3 months
[16:26] <AbhiJit> hggdh, is it possible that now expire my mentorship and i can again join in jan?
[16:26] <hggdh> AbhiJit: yes, it is possible. Please send us an email so that it will be documented
[16:26] <AbhiJit> hggdh, ok i reply to that email wait
[16:29] <micahg> RedSingularity: FTR, javascript and Java are 2 separate things
[16:31] <AbhiJit> hggdh, i sent reply to<EMAIL_ADDRESS> right?
[16:32] <AbhiJit> i should*
[16:33] <hggdh> no
[16:33] <AbhiJit> hggdh, then where?
[16:33] <AbhiJit> hggdh, the email i got from is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:33] <hggdh> AbhiJit: rather, yes
[16:33] <hggdh> sorry
[16:33] <AbhiJit> hggdh, ok
[16:34] <AbhiJit> hggdh, email sent.
[16:34] <hggdh> AbhiJit: thank you
[16:34] <AbhiJit> :)
[16:39] <penguin42> right, that's quite enough helping on the main #ubuntu today before I go insane
[16:42] <hggdh> penguin42: I cannot stand being there... too confusing
[16:43] <hggdh> it does not scale
[16:48] <om26er> any bugsquad-mentorship admin available? I was expired :(
[16:48] <om26er> ^^ not that am dead :O
[16:49] <om26er> when my bugcontrol membership was about to expire I got an email every day for 5days this time I got two emails.
[16:50] <hggdh> om26er: er
[16:51] <hggdh> om26er: what's your LP id?
[16:51] <om26er> hggdh, om26er
[16:51] <om26er> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~om26er
[16:51] <om26er> why that bugs. something changed in lp
[16:53] <hggdh> heh
[16:53] <hggdh> om26er: you are an mentor, are you not?
[16:53] <om26er> hggdh, expired :( should I apply again?
[16:54] <hggdh> I think we forgot to update your membership to non-expiring...
[16:54] <hggdh> no need. Setting up up now
[16:55] <hggdh> om26er: welcome back, we missed you for a whole day! ;-)
[16:56] <hggdh> OK. I will be AFK for about 40m
[16:56] <om26er> thank you hggdh :)
[16:56] <hggdh> om26er: yw
[16:56]  * om26er was missed wohoo ;)
[17:01] <AbhiJit> om26er, heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[17:01] <AbhiJit> om26er, my mentorship expired!!!!
[17:01] <AbhiJit> :(
[17:02] <om26er> AbhiJit, just read it on the mailing list ;)
[17:03] <AbhiJit> om26er, :(
[17:03] <AbhiJit> om26er, hey but you dont feel happy. I am still going to bug you if i have doubts or bugs to solve!!!
[17:03] <AbhiJit> :P
[17:03] <AbhiJit> :D
[17:04] <om26er> ha ha but bugs dont bug me :)
[17:04] <AbhiJit> :)
[17:04] <AbhiJit> yah you are one of the bug eater i know
[18:19] <mjw99> Hi, I'm trying to understand the bug resolution philosophy that exists within the Ubuntu project; specifically I'm encountering many situations whereby I actively test upcoming betas and RCs, report issues, only to find that they are not acted up.
[18:20] <belak> Alright, did xubuntu change cd burners?
[18:20] <micahg> belak: yes
[18:20] <belak> The multimedia applications page in the installer still sayd brasero.
[18:20] <belak> s/sayd/says/
[18:20] <micahg> mjw99: we have a lot of bugs to go through, we can't get to them all
[18:20] <mjw99> For example; this a regression that crept in at the RC stage; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/655268 Surely someone should have looked into this before the 10.10 release? Is there more I could have done here?
[18:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 655268 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Default resolution is incorrectly set (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[18:20] <micahg> belak: is that in the slideshow?
[18:21] <belak> micahg: yes
[18:21] <belak> Unimportant but it should be an easy fix.
[18:21] <belak> btw, love the new installer.
[18:22] <micahg> belak: please file a bug: ubuntu-bug ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[18:22] <belak> micahg: got it. ;)
[18:22] <micahg> belak: thanks
[18:22] <belak> I've been on gentoo for so long, it's nice to be coming back.
[18:23] <micahg> mjw99: sorry, I'm a little busy right now, I'll be available in a few hours if no one else picks this up
[18:23] <mjw99> micahg; Agreed, but I think Canonical should be throwing more resources at this. If a bug reporter continually sees their work going unanswered, then eventually that bug reporter will give up.
[18:24] <mjw99> I think internally Ubuntu are aware of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelMaverickBugHandling
[18:25] <belak> micahg: do I have to do it with the ubuntu-bug tool?
[18:25] <belak> Can't find the right launchpad page - report a bug boots me to the wiki
[18:25] <belak> Still waiting for xubuntu to finish installing. ;)
[18:25] <micahg> belak: that's why I suggested ubuntu-bug, it should take you straight to the correct page
[18:26] <belak> micahg: I don't have any ubuntu installs right now. Wait, xubuntu just finished...
[18:26] <belak> Ok
[18:26] <belak> Thanks.
[18:34] <stanley_robertso> hi all
[18:34] <stanley_robertso> folks .. need a small info .. if i have to find out.. who is my mentor.. how to find out .. seems strange question.. but iam stuck with such situation
[18:34] <yofel> hey stanley_robertso
[18:34] <stanley_robertso> :)
[18:36] <belak> Alright if I uninstall kubuntu-desktop, and I decide I don't want it later, is there a way to uninstall it and all its deps?
[18:37] <micahg> belak: not at the moment
[18:37] <yofel> belak: not that easy, as the *buntu-* metapackages are set to mark all their dependencies as manually installed
[18:38] <yofel> you could change that in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove - but I don't know if that will do what you want
[18:39] <belak> Hm, I guess I'll just stick with xfce then. Thanks.
[18:42] <crimsun> belak: you could always use a vm.
[18:42] <ashams> belak:  You may want to visit this page: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/puregnome
[18:42] <ashams> belak: it's helpful
[18:45] <stanley_robertso> yofel, there ?
[18:45] <ashams> simar:  hey!
[18:45] <yofel> yes
[18:46] <simar> ashams: heya
[18:46] <simar> ashams: at last
[18:46] <ashams> simar: haha
[18:46] <simar> stanley_robertso: hi
[18:47] <simar> ashams: you got my mail
[18:47] <AbhiJit> stanley_robertso, tumhaaraa gajhani ho gayaa hai kyaa? :P
[18:47] <ashams> simar: no, when today?
[18:47] <simar> ashams: just check you email and keep online on gmail
[18:48] <stanley_robertso> AbhiJit, i didnot get you
[18:48] <stanley_robertso> hi simar
[18:48] <simar> ashams: that way I can get to know when you are online
[18:48] <AbhiJit> stanley_robertso, you dont know hindi?
[18:49] <stanley_robertso> AbhiJit, i do know hindi .. but i didnot get the sentence properly [ is it mispelled ? ;) \
[18:49] <simar> stanley_robertso: I hope you are triaging some bugs ... you can mail me for any querries regarding triaging ..
[18:49] <AbhiJit> stanley_robertso, i mean are you become the Gajhani? do you know the film Gajhani?
[18:49] <simar> AbhiJit: I know
[18:49] <AbhiJit> simar, :o
[18:49]  * ashams reads mail
[18:49] <AbhiJit> simar, you from India?
[18:50] <hggdh> folks, folks, let's try to stay on topic ;-)
[18:50] <AbhiJit> ohhh!!!!
[18:50] <simar> simar: aur kya bahar bhi koi ghajni kyu dekhega??
[18:50] <simar> AbhiJit: nice to meet you :)
[18:50] <AbhiJit> simar, yah
[18:51] <simar> hggdh: my appologies
[18:52] <AbhiJit> simar, may i pm u
[18:53] <simar> AbhiJit: you should ask to do that .. from now onwards ..
[18:54] <AbhiJit> ??????
[18:54] <simar> **not   :)))
[18:54] <AbhiJit> ohhhhhh
[18:54] <simar> AbhiJit: **you should not ask
[18:54] <AbhiJit> yah got it
[18:54] <ashams> simar: ok, for documenting, I'll start by reading the code, and let's fire a project together!
[18:55] <simar> ashams: but let me warn you that code will be really complex..
[18:56] <simar> ashams: we can figure out (abstraction) something and have upstream developers to fix what we figure wrong ..
[18:56] <ashams> simar: sorry, didn't understand?
[18:57] <ashams> simar: haha!
[18:57] <ashams> simar:  yes, this will help us and even the new triagers
[18:59] <simar> ashams: ya, that way
[18:59] <simar> ashams: wait let me create a rough page
[19:00] <ashams> simar: YEAH!
[19:00] <stanley_robertso> AbhiJit, ya i saw the original Tamil version of the movie Gajini
[19:00] <AbhiJit> stanley_robertso, ok leave it. it was a bad joke!!!
[19:00] <AbhiJit> :P
[19:00] <stanley_robertso> :)
[19:01] <stanley_robertso> AbhiJit, you can say so .. as i was stuck with some other work, that ate up nearly 18 hours a day .. from last 4 months.. so i didnot get time to enjoy/work on ubuntu stuff
[19:01] <AbhiJit> ohh
[19:10] <ashams> simar: I admit the xev code is NOT very easy!!!
[19:11] <simar> ashams: remember the abstraction :))
[19:11] <simar> ashams: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/simar/Touchpad/xev#preview
[19:12] <simar> ashams: don't hesitate to edit it .. i hope you can add something relevant
[19:12] <simar> ashams: may be some explanation or just what should be the content .. i hope
[19:12] <ashams> simar: sure, but let me have some time to plan how to research
[19:13] <simar> ashams: like you email will be that starting point. that way I will get to know what users don't understand. Just write down you problems that what you don't understand .. thats it
[19:17] <ashams> simar: OK, I found some thing easy to do!
[19:19] <njin> hggdh: why ours link don't link ? are we in ghost mode ?http://hall-of-fame.ubuntu.com/
[19:21] <ashams> simar: Hey, what if we extended it to all, logs relating to touchpad?
[19:21] <hggdh> njin: I do not have access to the source page, but I suspect some of the links are set wrong
[19:22] <ashams> like xinput?
[19:22] <njin> hggdh: ok thanks, this is a trick of pedro_
[19:23] <njin> ;-)
[19:23] <hggdh> njin: try on the #ubuntu-community-team, they probably know more about it
[19:24] <hggdh> njin: my own link is wrong, BTW
[19:24] <simar> ashams: very well thought .. i plan to do so
[19:24] <simar> ashams: i think we will have some good support regarding kernel like stuff right inside ubuntu ...
[19:25] <ashams> simar: you mean from the kernel team?
[19:28] <simar> ashams: may be and a new touchpad team as well
[19:29] <ashams> simar: didn't get it?
[19:29] <simar> ashams: nothing serious
[19:30] <stanley_robertso> ashams, what is xdev ?
[19:30] <simar> ashams: what i want is that you should write all ''what is''.. that you  don't understand
[19:31] <simar> ashams: stanley_robertso is my other student and we all will be working on touchpad bugs and documentation and later source also to add new features ..
[19:32] <ashams> simar: I know
[19:32] <ashams> stanley_robertso: ok
[19:33] <stanley_robertso> simar, ashams  .. what is xdev
[19:33] <simar> stanley_robertso: but you will have to get accustomed to what we do here ..
[19:33] <stanley_robertso> simar, a quick question.. just asking.. how long this discussion can take place..
[19:34] <ashams> stanley_robertso: it's a tool that collects data from the X and sends it to a log file if tunnled
[19:34] <simar> stanley_robertso: are you asking for now or generally??
[19:34] <stanley_robertso> both :)
[19:35] <stanley_robertso> ashams, so is it kind of logging tool ?
[19:35] <ashams> stanley_robertso: when ever you do some event it counts it
[19:35] <stanley_robertso> ashams, ok
[19:35] <simar> stanley_robertso:  variable not very long .. at max 1 hr
[19:35] <ashams> stanley_robertso: yeah, let me get  a better description?
[19:35] <stanley_robertso> ashams, pls
[19:36] <ashams> stanley_robertso:  Xev creates a window and then asks the X server to send it events whenever anything happens to the window (such as it being moved, resized, typed in, clicked in, etc.).  You can also attach it to an existing window.  It is useful for seeing what causes events to occur and to display the information that they contain; it is essentially a debugging and development tool, and should not be needed in normal usage.
[19:37] <ashams> stanley_robertso: go a head and try it,  xev > ~/xev
[19:37] <stanley_robertso> ashams, i just tried it .. its really a cool tool
[19:37]  * persia idly notes that the input-utils package has some handy stuff for checking the kernel level for input stuff.
[19:37] <simar> stanley_robertso: i disagree ;-))
[19:38] <simar> ashams: what do you think
[19:38] <stanley_robertso> simar, is it for "a cool tool" ?
[19:38] <stanley_robertso> :)
[19:38] <simar> stanley_robertso: just joking
[19:38] <ashams> simar: disagree on what?
[19:38] <simar> ashams: see above that post
[19:38] <simar> ashams: on being a cool tool
[19:39] <ashams> simar: a logging tool?
[19:40] <simar> stanley_robertso: we were planning to document it properly
[19:40] <stanley_robertso> simar, so.. this xev can be attached to any application ?
[19:40] <stanley_robertso> simar, .. you are referring to "preparing a proper documentation.. depicting the usage/debugging stuff of xev"
[19:40] <simar> try this in terminal
[19:40] <simar> $man xev
[19:41] <simar> ashams: ya
[19:41] <simar> stanley_robertso: exacylt
[19:41] <stanley_robertso> simar, yes.. i tried this man stuff.. the first time.. ashams told me about xev
[19:41] <simar> *exactly
[19:41] <stanley_robertso> ;)
[19:41] <ashams> simar: so,
[19:42] <stanley_robertso> simar, ashams .. can i put forward my thoughts ?
[19:42] <simar> stanley_robertso: without asking
[19:42] <ashams> stanley_robertso: without asking
[19:42] <stanley_robertso> iam just writing the following, based on earlier experience : here it goes
[19:43] <stanley_robertso> 1) since we have man pages.. we can go through it [ though small one ]  and fully understand
[19:43] <stanley_robertso> 2) Prepare the contents of the documentation of the "xev" stuff
[19:43] <stanley_robertso> 3) Finalize the contents/topics
[19:43] <stanley_robertso> 4) Distribute the topics among the three/two
[19:43] <stanley_robertso> 5) Create a draft .. having a deadline date
[19:44] <stanley_robertso> 4) Review it and if found good, prepare a complete merged document
[19:44] <stanley_robertso> *6) Review it and if found good, prepare a complete merged document
[19:44] <stanley_robertso> 7) Review the final document and then do the next step
[19:44] <stanley_robertso> **********
[19:44] <stanley_robertso> I am just giving the formal steps we do in industrial side
[19:44] <stanley_robertso> :)
[19:44] <ashams> stanley_robertso:  :)
[19:44] <simar> stanley_robertso: great
[19:45] <simar> stanley_robertso: ya we will do something similar.. but we plan to just document so that any other triager can understand it ..
[19:46] <stanley_robertso> simar, ok
[19:46] <simar> it will be much more that man pages
[19:46] <stanley_robertso> simar, will it be going to be a dev-guide or usage-guide ?
[19:47] <ashams> stanley_robertso: non of that
[19:47] <simar> stanley_robertso: we will write stuff there and on demand can change it if someone says he don't understand .. because we have a wiki
[19:47] <simar> stanley_robertso: wiki page
[19:47] <stanley_robertso> ok
[19:47] <simar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/simar/Touchpad/xev
[19:48] <ashams> it's how to use the tools to analyze the activity of some devices
[19:48] <stanley_robertso> ok
[19:48] <simar> its a rough page you can edit whatever you like .. well you can add you steps that you mentioned above so that we can get a proper direction
[19:49] <simar> stanley_robertso: also take a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection
[19:50] <ashams> stanley_robertso: this is my favorite page.
[19:50] <simar> stanley_robertso: i have written this.. so that other triagers can understand what to do..
[19:50] <simar> stanley_robertso: this way we get more clear on topics
[19:50] <simar> ashams: :)
[19:51] <stanley_robertso> simar, ashams cool ..
[19:51] <simar> ashams: you can still improve it or suggest some improvement
[19:51] <simar> ashams: if you feel some stuff is not clear
[19:51] <ashams> simar: yeah, there is
[19:52] <simar> ashams: stanley_robertso As we have a complex topic, we should document properly what we learn and continue to improve ..
[19:52] <simar> ashams: stanley_robertso and ofcourse triage..
[19:53] <stanley_robertso> ok
[19:53] <ashams> simar: switching to VT is not very common among users, it would be better if it got a how-to through using just the terminal?
[19:54] <simar> ashams: you can do that .. on the rough page
[19:55] <simar> here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/simar/Touchpad
[19:55] <ashams> simar: ok
[19:55] <simar> ashams: when properly done we will move it on final page
[19:55] <ashams> simar: GREAT :))
[19:55] <simar> ashams: :))
[19:56] <simar> stanley_robertso: have you read all the pages of basic triaging .. thats very essential to get very clear
[19:57] <stanley_robertso> simar, i went through the links you shared.. will ofcourse do a recap of it.. tomorrow.. and be ready by EOD tomorrow
[19:57] <penguin42> right, back to work tomorrow - so see you all next week
[19:57] <simar> stanley_robertso: great!!
[19:57] <ashams> stanley_robertso: what is EOD?
[19:58] <stanley_robertso> ashams,  EOD --> End Of Day  :)))
[19:58] <simar> stanley_robertso: ashams Also as we work in a team now, you should mail me and ashams you problems and same should me and ashams do
[19:58] <ashams> stanley_robertso: thnx
[19:58] <simar> stanley_robertso: ashams like a mail list
[19:59] <simar> stanley_robertso: ashams let me try that
[19:59] <stanley_robertso> simar, ashams .. do you use gmail ? this might help us .. to be in touch in gtalk ..
[19:59] <ashams> simar:  nice
[20:00] <stanley_robertso> Ofcourse.. if its sharable
[20:00] <stanley_robertso> :)
[20:00]  * persia encourages folk to chat here about triage, rather than over XMPP: a wider audience helps increase the "with enough eyes all bugs are shallow" effect.
[20:00] <simar> stanley_robertso: ya
[20:01] <simar> :)
[20:02] <stanley_robertso> ok guys .. i think..we are done for today .. pls correct me if am wrong
[20:02] <ashams> simar:  well, I have to go too
[20:03] <ashams> stanley_robertso: have a nice day
[20:03] <ashams> simar:  leave?
[20:03] <simar> ya i too ..  got to attend the class at 8 tomorrow ..attendance is already short
[20:03] <stanley_robertso> thanks ashams .. can ashams simar.. share your gmail add .. in private chat ?
[20:03] <simar> c ya guys
[20:04] <stanley_robertso> simar, ashams .. actually I have to take a client call at 1 am now .. so have to be ready for it .. so asking.. if i can leave
[20:04] <stanley_robertso> :)
[20:04] <simar> ya sure i'm leaving too
[20:04] <simar> ashams: bye :)
[20:04] <ashams> stanley_robertso:  sure,
[20:04] <ashams> bye all
[20:04] <stanley_robertso> thanks ashams simar
[20:04] <stanley_robertso> bye all
[20:40] <Chell> Hi all, can someone tell me about the Bugsquad mentorship program?
[20:41] <mgunes> Chell, have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors ?
[20:41] <Chell> mgunes, yes, just have a few more questions.
[20:43] <mgunes> go ahead
[20:45] <Chell> What is it exacly what a mentor teaches (is that the right word for it?)? What can be expected?
[20:56] <mgunes> Chell, mentors guide you along the triaging guide, making sure you understand it thoroughly, and answering any questions you may have
[20:56] <mgunes> there are some details under the "How to become a mentor" heading in the wiki page
[20:58] <mgunes> they basically provide whatever information and experience you need to become a good triager
[21:02]  * Chell has only written a few "hello worlds" ;). How much knowledge should one need about projects and their infrastructure? Is it a process of weeks/months? years?
[21:02] <persia> Chell, Getting a mentor or not is really a matter of your preferred learning style.  If you're the sort that likes learning from a group, just ask here.  If you prefer to learn from one person, request a mentor.
[21:02] <persia> There's no prior requirements either way, and no need to understand code (you'll learn by reading it if you don't have any, but this is a different skill than being able to create it)
[21:04] <Chell> Ah, ok, thanks.
[21:17] <Blue1> i am stuck in a circular loop logic trying to report a bug.  help please.
[21:19] <yofel> Blue1: let's just continue here
[21:19] <Blue1> yofel: ok
[21:19] <yofel> Blue1: so how did you try to report the bug?
[21:19] <Blue1> i am here:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
[21:20] <Blue1> click on report a bug, taken to new page, which click on any link, and you go back to the exact same page:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[21:21] <Blue1> iow when trying to report a bug, it takes me to a page, that doesn't let me report the bug
[21:22] <micahg> Blue1: have you read that page, it tells you how to report a bug
[21:22] <yofel> Blue1: well, why didn't you read the ReportingBugs page?
[21:22] <Blue1> yofel: i have read it several times
[21:22] <yofel> Blue1: ok, what is you problem with ubuntu-bug then?
[21:22] <yofel> *your
[21:23] <Blue1> well I want to report a duplicate of a bug in 9.10
[21:23] <Blue1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/565757
[21:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 565757 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-typing-monitor icon is never displayed (affects: 9) (dups: 1) (heat: 47)" [Low,Incomplete]
[21:24] <micahg> Blue1: why not just nominate for karmic and add your version information?
[21:24] <Blue1> micahg: i don;t know how to do that, so thought I'd file a new bug against 10.10 - made sense to me.
[21:25] <Blue1> beside this bug self destructs in 25 days
[21:26] <micahg> Blue1: ok, I would suggest providing any missing information in the bug, with your version number (apt-cache policy PKGNAME), if it's the exact same bug
[21:26]  * yofel is off to bed, good night
[21:28] <xteejx> Bug expiry times restart if there are any comments or changes made
[21:28] <xteejx> PS Hi all
[21:29] <Blue1> micahg: well, yes but this is against an old version 9.10, this is the same bug, new version. so how does adding information to the 9.10 bug, help them to know it's in 10.10?
[21:29] <micahg> Blue1: actually, the bug is against lucid as in (it regressed in Lucid, and if no one fixed it in maverick, then it's likely to exist there as well)
[21:29] <xteejx> Blue1: Add the info as micahg said, and if you're that worried add maverick as a tag
[21:29] <Blue1> ok
[21:30] <micahg> Blue1: you can edit the description using the fields listed on this wiki page as well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Description
[21:30]  * xteejx is glad to be back :)
[21:30] <micahg> Blue1: hardware specific bugs, we generally file a new one (X, kernel, audio), but this seems to be a simple desktop issue
[21:30] <micahg> xteejx: welcome back :)
[21:31] <xteejx> micahg: Thanks micah, although it wasn't a hint ;) hehe
[21:31] <micahg> xteejx: I saw your email to the list
[21:31] <xteejx> micahg: Yeah I've been away FAR too long, have missed it!
[21:31] <Blue1> micahg: I added the information as suggested....
[21:32] <Blue1> but I'd still like to know how to file if I find other bugs.
[21:32] <micahg> Blue1: ubuntu-bug PKGNAME
[21:32] <Blue1> if I am on this page:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs and click on existing bugs, then report a bug, I am redirected back to where I started.
[21:33] <xteejx> Blue1: Then use ubuntu-bug PKG as suggested
[21:33] <xteejx> Besides if there are any apport hooks with the package it will pull in required info
[21:34] <Blue1> xteejx: yeah but that doesn't let me put in the specific issue.
[21:34] <xteejx> Or, as above, just comment on the bug and say something like:
[21:34] <xteejx> "Affects Maverick 10.10 package version xxx.yyy
[21:34] <micahg> Blue1: right, because that option was disabled for most users.  Apport attaches some basic information to the initial bug which is why we ask people to report bugs with ubuntu-bug
[21:35] <xteejx> most of the time it helps us to push the bug through quicker because we can see the issue in the logs
[21:35] <Blue1> micahg: so you can't report a bug through the website, hence the circular loop.  okay now makes sense, sorta.
[21:35] <xteejx> No, you can
[21:35] <xteejx> But shouldn't
[21:35] <micahg> Blue1: there is a way to do it, and it's described in teh wiki page, but we prefer ubuntu-bug submissions (which opens up launchpad on the proper report a bug page)
[21:36] <Blue1> xteejx: well I can't seem to report it on the website at all.
[21:36] <xteejx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu > Report a bug...BUT we'd prefer if you used ubuntu-bug
[21:36] <xteejx> You can add more info afterwards
[21:36] <micahg> xteejx: that doesn't work for most users
[21:36] <xteejx> micahg: Which one?
[21:36] <micahg> the report a bug link, only for bug control members
[21:37] <Blue1> xteejx: right that does the exact circular logic I was talking about, click on report a bug, and takes you to page, on how to report a bug.  you can't get there from here.
[21:37] <xteejx> Ohhh now I see
[21:37] <xteejx> Didn't even know about that, but either way ubuntu-bug is still the preferred ;)
[21:37] <Blue1> ok
[21:38] <Blue1> xteejx: is what I am saying, make any sense now?
[21:38] <hggdh> in fact we are actively discouraging the web bug report
[21:38] <hggdh> Blue1: yes, it does make sense, and this is intentional
[21:39] <xteejx> Blue1: Yup, and if what micahg says is correct, then that loop would be expected
[21:39] <Blue1> i didn't see the ubuntu-bug thing on the page, let me look again.
[21:39] <Blue1> xteejx: thanks, I feel vindicated, and now non-stupid
[21:40] <xteejx> Blue1: lol don't worry about it, I've said plenty of stupid things on here
[21:40] <xteejx> like the above....(didn't read the text properly)
[21:41] <Blue1> thanks guys --
[21:41]  * xteejx grabs a coffee
[21:41] <xteejx> Blue1: No probs
[21:42] <Blue1> xteejx: here;s the bug, on my site (and fix)  http://pkill-9.com/wordpress/?p=283
[21:42] <xteejx> Blue1: I can't wait until we finally have open-source voice recognition :(
[21:43] <xteejx> Blue1: Have you notified us or upstream of this fix so they can patch this?
[21:44] <xteejx> Ignore that, it's being triaged
[21:45] <Blue1> xteejx: the fix is in the original bug report.
[21:45] <xteejx> Ok cool
[21:45] <Blue1> xteejx: iow they broke this in 10.04, didn't fix it then, or in 10.10
[21:46] <xteejx> Blue1: It worked before 10.04?
[21:46] <Blue1> xteejx: yes.  the fix is to use the module from 9.10
[21:47] <Blue1> trying to talk a kid through unetbootin (I know its not a ubuntu software) and hit 2 major show stoppers - -enough to stop a n00b dead in the tracks
[21:48] <micahg> Blue1: it's in the archive
[21:48] <Blue1> the fix wasn't hard, but talking a n00b through it, was hours.
[21:48] <xteejx> Blue1: Which is why reporting these bugs is really helpful
[21:48] <Blue1> kool i used the ubuntu bug and refiled it.
[21:48] <Blue1> xteejx: so apologies if that duplicates.
[21:49] <xteejx> Blue1: You mean you re-reported this same bug?
[21:49] <xteejx> It'll get duped anyway so no worries
[21:49] <Blue1> thanks for all your help.
[21:49] <xteejx> Actually, if you can give us the new bug number we can link them now
[21:50] <Blue1> xteejx: the report showed up but only with the old number, maybe new one still being processed.  anyway status now set to new.
[21:50] <Blue1> Resetting to New as the information requested seems to have been provided  ** Changed in: gnome-control-center (Ubuntu)        Status: Incomplete => New
[21:51] <xteejx> Yes, micahg set that, I thought you filed a new bug for this same problem with ubuntu-bug?
[21:51] <Blue1> xteejx: i did.
[21:51] <xteejx> So what's the number for the new one?
[21:52] <Blue1> xteejx: let me see if I can find it.  they've not emailed me, dont know if web page is still up
[21:52] <micahg> Blue1: is this gnome
[21:52] <micahg> Blue1: is this gnome 613432
[21:52] <xteejx> Blue1: Well if you used ubuntu-bug to report it, firefox would've opened the page
[21:52] <ubot2> Gnome bug 613432 in Typing break "Please use a regular icon for typing monitor in notification area" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613432
[21:52] <Blue1> xteejx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/657904
[21:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657904 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-typing-monitor does not display in notfication area. (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[21:53] <xteejx> I still can't understand why you refiled it?
[21:53] <Blue1> xteejx: user dumbness (mea culpa)
[21:54] <xteejx> Fie enough :)
[21:54] <Blue1> okay gonna take a break - yoo hoo the old typing monitor does work!
[21:55] <xteejx> don't forget to take a break :)
[22:30] <layn> Hi
[22:30] <persia> hey
[22:31] <ogennadi> Hey y'all, where can I go be mentored through the process of picking, and fixing a bug in ubuntu?
[22:31] <ogennadi> It's kinna hard to know what's the right size bug to tackle since I'm very new
[22:32] <persia> ogennadi, There's a mentoring program, if you always want the same person, or just ask here if you just want a good hint for a bug.
[22:32] <devildante> hello everyone :)
[22:33] <ogennadi> thanks, persia
[22:33] <persia> When I was a more active triager, I used to pick bugs from #ubuntu-bugs-announce that looked easy enough to dig at, and ask here when I got stuck (which was for most bugs at some point or another)
[22:51] <dyfet> I believe bug 657947 can be marked as triaged
[22:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657947 in coinor-cbc (Ubuntu) "ftbfs - in maverick - linking issue (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657947
[22:52]  * persia looks
[22:53] <persia> dyfet, I don't think it can be marked Triaged yet: it's not clear what needs to be done to fix it.
[22:53] <dyfet> I think it needs to have a dependency added to debian/control...
[22:54] <dyfet> but since its right after release and likely not a widely used package, I am not sure where it even fits in priority...
[22:55] <persia> It'd be for natty.
[22:55] <persia> But what I think is needed to reach "Triaged" is for someone to say *which* dependency needs to be added, and why.
[22:56] <dyfet> By the time I did that I would have a patch, and it would be resolved too ;)
[22:58] <dyfet> If we are are going to wait for Natty, then there is a different release already in sid...so it may be irrelevant by then...
[22:58] <persia> Yeah.  For folks who write patches, "Triaged" is often only a useful status for a few minutes :)
[22:59] <persia> Hrm.  Doesn't appear to be in any packagesets: might be eligible as an SRU, if you want.
[23:00] <dyfet> Thats basically is what I am asking, whether it should be a sru or not.  If not, it can be left as is as a reminder of something to check when we sync with the new version in sid...
[23:00] <persia> One way in which "Triaged" might be useful if you're preparing patches is if you want upstream review: you might open an upstream bug, attach a patch there, add the upstream task to the Ubuntu bug, and set the Ubuntu bug to "Triaged".
[23:02] <persia> It definitely qualifies for SRU.  No way to say whether it's worth it, except in terms of your own motivation to fix it.
[23:02] <dyfet> upstream has moved on well past this version...
[23:03] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coinor-cbc/2.4.2-1 claims it's built for all architectures.
[23:03] <persia> Somehow the value of fixing this particular bug feels kinda low :)
[23:04] <persia> Basically, ity's probably only worth fixing if there's some other bug that needs fixing in the package.
[23:04] <persia> Right now, we know we can't provide security or critical bug-fix support for the package *unless* we fix the FTBFS.
[23:04] <persia> But there doesn't seem to be any reason to perform an upload.
[23:04] <dyfet> I was originally going by the debian rc reports in ubuntu-wire, and thought i would try it to see if failed to build...and it did fail ;).  But yes, it seems rather low priority
[23:05] <persia> So, maybe attach a FTBFS fix patch, set to Triaged, and if someone else is doing an SRU or Security upload, they would be able to use the FTBFS fix as well.
[23:05] <dyfet> Okay
[23:05] <dyfet> Certainly there is no security issue at this moment with it...I did a number of security bugs Friday and yesterday.
[23:05] <persia> Oh, if there's a fix from the ubuntuwire rcbugs list, maybe it's worth tossing up a quick patch (if it's quick), or adding a debian task to the bug.
[23:06] <persia> If it's linked to a (solved) Debian bug, I'd consider it triaged.
[23:06] <dyfet> The ubuntuwire linked debian suggested fix seemed to be to migrate to 2.5.0 :)
[23:06] <persia> And given that you identified the bug: it's probably just a procedural thing.
[23:06] <persia> Start from "Also affects Distribution..." and add Debian bug report to the task summar.
[23:06] <persia> Then I'll move to "Triaged" :)
[23:07]  * persia apologises for being slow today
[23:08] <micahg> dyfet: the debian changelog seems to suggest updating the build-dep
[23:08] <persia> Also, what do you think for "Importance"?
[23:08] <dyfet> As I said, it looks simple to resolve :)
[23:08] <persia> micahg, Yeah, but current source has current binaries in maverick already ... :)
[23:09] <micahg> persia: right, no I agree with you
[23:09] <dyfet> Exactly what I was thinking...more time lost deciding what it should be though ;)
[23:09] <persia> No point fixing it if we have a fix from Debian and we're not uploading.
[23:10] <persia> But we need the bug state to document that clearly to set "Triaged" or we'll end up with someone trying to maintain accurate statuses marking it "Incomplete" because it doesn't have the solution or pointer to upstream solution.
[23:10] <dyfet> The problem is in Debian their fix also includes jumping to version 0.5.0....
[23:11] <dyfet> (2.5.0)
[23:11] <persia> That's fine.
[23:11] <dyfet> 2.5.0 does not build on Maverick...
[23:11] <persia> If someone has to do SRU or Security, at least they have a pointer.
[23:11] <dyfet> okay :)
[23:11] <persia> And we can fix 2.5.0 for Natty
[23:11] <persia> So, which Importance?
[23:11] <dyfet> I updated to link it to the upstream bug
[23:12] <dyfet> I suspect low right now
[23:12] <persia> OK.  Set to Triaged/Low (I agree with both states after being forcefully reminded of the Debian bug)
[23:12] <persia> Natty will get an autosync, and if that fails, we can look at a new bug, etc.
[23:12] <dyfet> at least if someone needs to later do a security fix they will have all the info needed to decide what to do then...
[23:13] <persia> Right, that's the key bit.
[23:13] <persia> Also, it's worth subscribing to that bug, and checking sometime later in the natty cycle: there's a decent chance it can be closed, or marked maverick-only or similar.
[23:15] <dyfet> Persia: ok.  meanwhile I will continue seeing what bugs I wander across this weekend unless you have something specific you do wish to me to look at...
[23:15] <persia> |I strongly believe it's best for people to focus on the things that interest them.
[23:16] <persia> That said, release was ~12 hours back, so maybe worth trying out all the different features in maverick, and filing bugs about the environment that aren't yet working properly for your specific setup.
[23:16] <dyfet> I also ended up anonatating most of the current grave bugs on the uw rc list...those seemed the most important to review...
[23:17] <persia> There's a certain deep satisfaction to triaging one's own bugs, in large part because it increases the chance they will be fixed (but always best practice is to get a second opinion on self-triage, as it's easy to confuse "software on my computer doesn't work" with "software doesn't work")
[23:17] <persia> Excellent.  Reduces the SRU targets :)
[23:18] <dyfet> It's where I picked up a lot of relevant security issues...
[23:19] <persia> Good practice is to make sure the folks in -hardened know about the security stuff.  Usually this is by filing security bugs, but if they bugs don't already have the security flag, you might want to check in there.
[23:20] <dyfet> I made sure when I submitted them I set the security flag...I still have a few that are private today ..
[23:20] <persia> Then they'll get them.  More security uploads are always good :)
[23:21] <persia> micahg tends to be a good person to ask if you have procedural issues (as mozillateam stuff gets security updates something like weekly)
[23:22] <micahg> persia: not that frequently ;), just seems like it recently
[23:22] <dyfet> I think I will head out for the evening
[23:22] <persia> have a good night
[23:22] <dyfet> have a good day there :)


[03:20] <StevenK> wgrant: Did you see OOPS-fe4a82b31c1ecb7cca1a1da04b3aaef1?
[03:22] <wgrant> Yay
[03:23] <StevenK> I have a branch that adds a test, but I can't my test to break in the same way.
[03:23] <wgrant> StevenK: Note that it's deleting a series that contains a milestone that is referenced by a work item
[03:24] <StevenK> Right, and the code to delete a series will delete all milestones first
[03:24] <wgrant> Yes
[03:28] <StevenK> My test is triggering: AssertionError: You cannot delete a milestone which has specifications targeted to it.
[03:28] <wgrant> StevenK: It needs to be a workitem, not a spec.
[03:28] <StevenK> Which requires a spec
[03:28] <wgrant> Sure
[03:28] <wgrant> The spec doesn't have to be targeted.
[03:28] <StevenK> IntegrityError: update or delete on table "milestone" violates foreign key constraint "specificationworkitem_milestone_fkey" on table "specificationworkitem"
[03:28] <StevenK> DETAIL:  Key (id)=(13) is still referenced from table "specificationworkitem".
[03:29] <StevenK> wgrant: So, the delete code does not look for specificationworkitem where deleted = True
[03:29] <wgrant> Ah
[03:48] <StevenK>         mapper = lambda row: row[0]
[03:48] <StevenK>         return DecoratedResultSet(ordered_results, mapper)
[03:49] <wgrant> itemgetter
[03:49] <StevenK> (ordered_results, itemgetter(0)) ?
[03:49] <wgrant> Yes
[04:38] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/workitems-delete-series/+merge/156457
[04:41] <wgrant> StevenK: Does the delete method need an assertion for specificationworkitems as it has for specifications?
[04:41] <wgrant> Also, you shouldn't be tested that at the series level.
[04:41] <wgrant> testing
[04:48] <StevenK> wgrant: You can't remove workitems, they just set to deleted=True
[04:49] <StevenK> wgrant: I can shift the test to the milestone level if you wish, but I suspect the test will fail because of the specification.
[04:50] <StevenK> Deleting a milestone performs checks against it, but I suspect the same checks aren't done against the series' milestones when you remove a series
[04:53] <wgrant> StevenK: But the spec shouldn't be targeted, should it?
[04:53] <wgrant> And I know you can't remove them -- that's why the browser code unsets them
[04:56] <StevenK> wgrant: It didn't seem to touch workitems
[04:57] <StevenK> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669457/ fails with MismatchError: None is not <Milestone at 0xf1377d0>
[04:59] <wgrant> StevenK: With what error?
[05:04] <StevenK>     self.assertIs(None, workitem.milestone)
[05:04] <StevenK> MismatchError: None is not <Milestone at 0xf1377d0>
[05:05] <wgrant> StevenK: But what was the form error?
[05:05] <wgrant> There must have been one, if it was not deleted.
[05:05] <wgrant> Or your form post was invalid.
[05:06] <StevenK> wgrant: The assert above that one is self.assertEqual([], view.errors)
[05:06] <wgrant> StevenK: Sure, so perhaps you didn't specify a valid form action
[05:11] <StevenK> wgrant: I doubt it, as lp.registry.browser._deleteMilestone() fires
[05:22] <wgrant> StevenK: Oh, I guess they're not actually proper errors, or there is a confirmation step
[05:22] <wgrant> Check the body that you get back.
[05:41] <StevenK> wgrant: From view.request.response?
[05:43] <wgrant> StevenK: view()
[05:45] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669521/
[05:45] <wgrant> Oh
[05:45] <wgrant> That wasn't using c_i_v?
[05:45] <StevenK> It is using c_i_v()
[05:46] <wgrant>     view = create_view(
[05:46] <wgrant>         context, name, form, layer, server_url, method, principal,
[05:46] <wgrant>         query_string, cookie, request, path_info, rootsite=rootsite,
[05:46] <wgrant>         current_request=current_request, **kwargs)
[05:46] <wgrant>     view.initialize()
[05:46] <wgrant>     return view
[05:46] <wgrant> c_i_v, as the name suggests, initializes the view
[05:46] <StevenK> view() == view.render(), no?
[05:46] <wgrant> Sort of
[05:47] <wgrant> render() isn't a thing
[05:47] <wgrant> I think Launchpad views use it internally
[05:47] <wgrant> But I'm not sure Zope has it as a thing at all
[05:48] <StevenK> But yes, I see that it calls self.initialize(), which is odd
[05:48] <StevenK> Anyway, do you believe me now? :-)
[05:49] <wgrant> StevenK: Did you perchance do view() outside the person_logged_in block?
[05:49] <wgrant> Perhaps the form does other things when the owner is not logged in
[05:50] <StevenK> wgrant: I do, yes
[05:51] <StevenK> wgrant: Same traceback if I move the print into the with block
[05:51] <wgrant> StevenK: Add some prints to initialize() or pdb it
[05:51] <wgrant> And see why c_i_v doesn't trigger the exception
[05:52] <wgrant> Or read initialize() and work out wtf is so special about it
[05:52]  * wgrant finds the relevant form
[05:53] <wgrant> It appears to not override it
[05:53] <wgrant> StevenK: What if you manually call view.render() rather than view()?
[05:53] <wgrant> That'll let us see the content of the first submission without causing the exception
[05:53] <StevenK> wgrant: That thing that isn't a thing?
[05:53] <StevenK> LocationError: 'link-display-name-id'
[05:54] <StevenK> Let me reflow so it doesn't have to traverse milestone
[05:54] <wgrant> StevenK: It's a thing for LaunchpadView derivatives, since LaunchpadView.__call__ calls render()
[05:54] <wgrant> But in general it's not
[05:56] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669535/
[05:57] <wgrant> Ah, of course
[05:57] <wgrant> StevenK: store.flush()
[05:58] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, the flush now shows the error
[05:59] <wgrant> Yeah
[05:59] <wgrant> Forms often leave things unflushed
[05:59] <wgrant> Often exposing bug #812176
[05:59] <_mup_> Bug #812176: Exceptions during commits are not handled by the publisher <critical-analysis> <oops> <regression> <webapp-infrastructure> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/812176 >
[06:00] <StevenK> wgrant: So, this still leave us with the original issue, that _deleteMilestone didn't do anything with workitems
[06:00] <StevenK> Which you objected to
[06:00] <wgrant> StevenK: I'm confused
[06:01] <wgrant> _deleteMilestone clearly needs to do for workitems what it does for specs.
[06:02] <wgrant> StevenK: It may also be wise to consider how milestone deletion handles spec privacy
[06:02] <wgrant> It correctly bypasses it for bugs
[06:02] <StevenK> Badly
[06:02] <StevenK> And yeah, I've noticed that
[06:03] <wgrant> I don't remember what it does for specs
[06:03] <wgrant> And the MP diff is in another window
[06:03] <StevenK>             user = getUtility(ILaunchBag).user
[06:03] <StevenK>             return list(target.getSpecifications(user))
[06:03] <wgrant> Ah
[06:03] <wgrant> So broken.
[06:03] <StevenK> Yeah
[06:03] <wgrant> And slow
[06:04] <StevenK> wgrant: Would you like another test for that case?
[06:04] <wgrant> StevenK: Better that than a 403
[06:04] <wgrant> Actually, it'd just plain crash, wouldn't it
[06:04] <wgrant> With a 502, probably
[06:04] <StevenK> Yes, it will OOPS
[06:12] <StevenK> wgrant: Hmmm, my test passes, I suspect because the owner of the product has access to the spec
[06:13] <wgrant> StevenK: Indeed, you'll probably need to revoke the APG or similar.
[06:14] <StevenK> wgrant: I do wonder if I can be evil and just .set(access_policy=None, access_grants=None)
[06:16] <wgrant> StevenK: That's evil and depends on the implementation of the underlying queries. I wouldn't.
[06:18]  * StevenK fixes the passing test to revoke the correct AP
[06:18] <StevenK> DETAIL:  Key (product, id)=(27, 13) is still referenced from table "specification".
[06:18] <StevenK> And that's an OOPS
[06:36] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669598/
[06:38] <wgrant> StevenK: I don't understand why _get_specifications was like that before
[06:38] <wgrant> _getSpecifications
[06:38] <StevenK> Because Milestone doesn't use IHasSpecifications, and only provided getSpecifications()
[06:38] <wgrant> Ah
[06:39] <wgrant> So, having private members in an interface seems like a seriously strange idea
[06:39] <wgrant> Does getSpecifications not provide a give-me-everything mode?
[06:39] <StevenK> Nope
[06:40] <StevenK> Neither does search_specifications(), actually
[06:41] <StevenK> -        assert self.getSpecifications(user).count() == 0, (
[06:41] <StevenK> +        assert self._all_specifications.count() == 0, (
[06:41] <StevenK> wgrant: ^ That's in IMilestone.destroySelf(), changed after that paste.
[06:46] <wgrant> StevenK: :)
[06:46] <wgrant> (pointless use of count, but it'll be an OOPS either way)
[06:46] <StevenK> Oh? It's a resultset
[06:47] <wgrant> .any()
[06:47] <wgrant> .count() is expensive
[06:48] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669619/
[06:49] <wgrant> StevenK: Is _all_specifications really on the other interface?
[06:50] <wgrant> Also, those assertions are inverted
[06:50] <wgrant> And _getSpecifications is pointless
[06:51] <StevenK> Oh, hah
[06:51] <StevenK>     def _all_specifications(self):
[06:51] <StevenK>         """See IHasSpecifications."""
[06:51] <StevenK>         user = getUtility(ILaunchBag).user
[06:51] <StevenK>         return self.specifications(user, filter=[SpecificationFilter.ALL])
[06:51] <wgrant> Security proxies will also probably ruin your day
[06:54] <StevenK> _getSpecifications is called by children
[06:55] <wgrant> Sure
[06:55] <wgrant> But look what it does.
[07:00] <StevenK> _getSpecifications() ripped out, and I think I've defeated the security proxy
[07:00] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669642/
[07:03] <wgrant> +        return list(self.context._all_specifications) + [
[07:03] <wgrant> +            list(milestone.getSpecifications(self.user))
[07:03] <wgrant> +                for milestone in self.milestones]
[07:03] <wgrant> Isn't that filtering by user?
[07:08] <StevenK> wgrant: Sure, since that's actually displayed on the page
[07:08] <wgrant> Oh, right
[07:09] <wgrant> StevenK: By .any() I actually mean .is_empty(), of course. And I'm still not happy with the _ method in configure.zcml.
[07:15] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669672/  What else can I do? Milestone hardcodes everything in the ZCML
[07:19] <wgrant> StevenK: Well, declaring a private attribute as accessible from the outside seems a tad iffy...
[07:31] <StevenK> wgrant: I wanted to avoid rSP
[07:33] <wgrant> StevenK: That might mean that it's not a private attribute.
[07:52] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5669749/


[19:06] <charlie-tca> Cheri703: will pick up the vertical mouse this week to give it a try. Three trackballs and a vertical mouse to play with :)
[19:07] <Cheri703> nice! hope you find something that works for you
[19:07] <Cheri703> let me know what you think of the vertical mouse, may recommend it to my mom
[19:09] <charlie-tca> I will, but it takes a while to know
[19:09] <charlie-tca> give me about a month, I guess. Sometimes I know faster.
[19:16] <Cheri703> understandable :)


[04:49] <Madpilot> hi all
[04:50] <Madpilot> anyone recognize the Jabber id<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:04] <hysterio> hi guys
[11:07] <hysterio> just noticed in the server guide for 6.10, on the page for "Domain Name Service (DNS)" it says that to install Bind you should "sudo apt-get install bind" - but the bind package is in universe - should it not read "sudo apt-get install bind9" ??
[11:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72414 in ubuntu-doc "Serverguide - typo in bind instructions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72414
[12:02] <Burgundavia> mdke_: the help wiki is a growing disaster
[12:02] <Burgundavia> hmm
[01:37] <mdke_> Burgundavia: can you be more specific?
[01:45] <mdke_> maybe an email to the list or a bug report so we can discuss later, I'm not going to be around irc much
[06:51] <slight> Hi, I've found what is either an error in the 6.10 docs or there's a missing package from 6.10 default install
[06:52] <dsas> slight: Could you file a bug on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs that'll ensure we don't lose site of it, and all the relevant people will be notified
[06:52] <dsas> slight: Feel free to describe it in here too though.
[06:52] <slight> sorry, doing 3 things at once :)
[06:52] <slight> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch10s02.html
[06:53] <slight> this page refers to the disks manager, which doesn't seem to be included any more
[06:53] <mdke> that's correct yeah. A big bug
[06:53] <slight> that's already been filed then?
[06:53] <slight> saves me the search :)
[06:53] <slight> and now i know where to file docs bugs if i find any
[06:54] <slight> though i'm presuming the package was meant to be included?
[06:54] <mdke> not filed yet. Please do so :)
[06:54] <slight> ok
[06:54] <mdke> no, it was removed because it's rubbish... we'll need to use Gnome Partition Editor or something else
[06:55] <slight> is that gparted? it nuked my partition table lately :)
[06:55] <slight> imagine i was unlucky though
[06:57] <mdke> ouch
[06:58] <mdke> yeah, it is gparted
[06:59] <slight> ok reported that
[07:00] <mdke> thanks
[07:00] <slight> overall i've been very impressed with the online doc
[07:00] <slight> i think it might be worth making a point of pushing users towards that before the wiki and forums, it's very easy to get out of date or just wrong information from them
[07:00] <slight> amazing how quickly people can tie themselves in knots
[07:01] <mdke> note that the wiki is a part of the online docs, but you have a good point anyway
[07:02] <slight> sure, but the actual desktop guide is far more focussed, and less likely to be out of date because of it i guess
[07:03] <mdke> hopefully :)
[07:04] <slight> anyway that's been my experience. i was quite suprised to find an error
[07:04] <slight> anyway good work folks, keep it up :)
[07:04] <slight> bye
[07:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72453 in ubuntu-docs "Online help for 6.10 refers to gnome disks manager which isn't included in the distribution" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72453