[00:07] <Unit193> bluesabre: So did you do all the changes in x-d-s and update whisker? :--D
[00:07] <bluesabre> Unit193, not yet D-------------:
[00:09]  * Unit193 waves.
[00:10] <Unit193> (FWIW, you can pretty much skip all other recent releases, I've already done something with 'em.  All but sensors and mount.)
[00:36] <bluesabre> :)
[12:28] <flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - ok so this is driving me nuts :p
[12:28] <bluesabre> ?
[12:28] <flocculant> thunar
[12:28] <bluesabre> uh oh
[12:28] <flocculant> *now* I'm seeing the reload issue again
[12:29] <bluesabre> which one is the reload issue?
[12:29] <flocculant> where a file that's been moved on still shows in the origin
[12:30] <bluesabre> ah
[12:30] <bluesabre> :\
[12:30] <bluesabre> that might be a gvfs thing
[12:30] <bluesabre> I saw that on nautilus this week
[12:30] <flocculant> oh good
[12:31] <flocculant> now of course after telling corsac and ochosi it crashed - it won't :p
[12:32] <bluesabre> :D
[12:32]  * flocculant does something entirely different
[12:33] <flocculant> might install some other *buntu for 17.04 and test this with that file manager - ubuntu and nautilus sounds like the best plan :p
[13:52] <flocculant> that was a moderately horrid experience - seems to be no way to select files in nautilus with a mouse window
[13:52] <flocculant> bluesabre: anyway - didn't manage to crash nautilus there
[17:23] <knome> flocculant, http://staging.xubuntu.org/tracker/
[17:24] <knome> flocculant, this is PoC/betaish stage, but see how the timeline acknowledges that the done item has been closed 2 times
[17:24] <knome> flocculant, also note task groups vs. blueprints - you can now have multiple overlapping
[17:25] <knome> this has probably been more of a problem with community/website/marketing stuff, but things that really belong to more than one blueprint have been painful
[17:25] <flocculant> yea ack that point ^^
[17:26] <flocculant> my issue is still an issue - real-time(as far as it goes) with where bugs are reported - so we would still be hitting lp api I guess
[17:27] <flocculant> and if we mvoe on one stage then upstream reporting where it's listed on lp
[17:27] <knome> yes, but much less
[17:27] <flocculant> eg a lp bug with upstream link
[17:27] <knome> i think bugzilla has an API as well, so we should be able to work with that as well
[17:27] <knome> and yes, now we can do dozens of cool things
[17:28] <knome> one thing i was considering is that we might want to create tasks for "all bugs"
[17:28] <knome> and then link the bugs into those tasks
[17:28] <knome> so eg. "fix thunar" is the task
[17:28] <knome> and then it could have 1-3 bugs linked to it
[17:28] <knome> if we want
[17:28] <knome> or then just one
[17:28] <knome> or then we can just do what we always did
[17:29] <knome> one feature i haven't been exposing much on the PoC yet is that we can now have a full description for each task ála wordpress articles
[17:29] <knome> so the tasks are not just titles, they can have all kinds of extra data
[17:29] <knome> and this comes without extra work too
[17:31] <flocculant> being able to multiple link bugs to a 'task' is good
[17:31] <knome> yes, i gathered this would be a good thing
[17:31] <knome> also, one more thing
[17:31] <knome> remember the bug targets are sometimes weird when you have a bug linked to multiple packages?
[17:31] <knome> well, now we could allow you to select which package to show...
[17:37] <flocculant> that would be a positive ;)
[17:37] <knome> yep
[17:37] <knome> all kinds of little things
[17:37] <knome> but most importantly from my POV to be able to track a single task better - even if its title changed
[17:40] <flocculant> I will take some convincing - because most bp's I'm involved with have to talk to lp
[17:40] <flocculant> and I imagine docs too
[17:41] <knome> sure, i'll try to get some kind of testing stuff going soonish
[17:41] <knome> i'm not doing anything re: bugs quite yet
[17:41] <knome> but since i can reuse most of the code, it should be quick
[17:41] <flocculant> and how about linking with the dev side of things?
[17:41] <knome> what do you mean with that?
[17:41] <knome> you mean linking with dev.xubuntu.org?
[17:42] <flocculant> well - if we lose blueprints - how does all the LP stuff currently linking together - link outside?
[17:42] <knome> how does it need to?
[17:42] <flocculant> bugs > fixes for one I guess
[17:42] <knome> i mean, there's not much synergy we can from tracking stuff in blueprints at the moment anyway :(
[17:43] <flocculant> other than bugs and fixes
[17:43] <knome> i'm not sure what that stuff is
[17:43] <knome> we aren't using the LP milestones
[17:43] <knome> so no loss there
[17:43] <flocculant> not sure anyway - I will be keeping my powder dry for the moment :)
[17:43] <knome> hehe
[17:44] <knome> also, one thing i forgot to mention which is fun
[17:44] <knome> we can have multiple assignees per task
[17:44]  * flocculant always has a match though ...
[17:44] <knome> i just don't know how we'll show that but...
[17:44] <flocculant> not that you need telling that :p
[17:44] <knome> and we can also add anything we want to the assignee
[17:44] <knome> doesn't have to be LP team
[17:44] <knome> or user
[17:44] <flocculant> right
[17:44] <knome> which is a slight advantage too
[17:46] <flocculant> :)
[17:46] <flocculant> always happy to be involved as you know
[17:46] <knome> yep
[17:46] <knome> i'll need some testing once stuff is set up
[17:46] <knome> mostly the bugs
[17:46] <Unit193> thunar 1.6.10-6 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #800723)
[17:47] <flocculant> just not ever going to be someone you can rely on saying 'that's awesome' till I really mean it :D
[17:47] <knome> i'm still not sure if i want to handle that as i do now (via real cron jobs) or if i should do something else
[17:47] <knome> probably at least a button that says "reload all bug data"
[17:47] <knome> when you need that now
[17:47] <flocculant> personally I think that last would make more sense
[17:47] <flocculant> then when 'person' needs real time - they can get it
[17:48] <knome> yes, that AT LEAST
[17:48] <knome> but the automatic side...
[17:48] <knome> maybe i'll move more to a "poor man's cron" kind of thing
[17:48] <flocculant> could be weekly at that point?
[17:48] <knome> eg. not have a real cron job, but some kind of timestamp in the db
[17:48] <knome> so it only updates if somebody is actually looking
[17:48] <knome> yeah, something like that
[17:48] <flocculant> as long as all know when it was last globally updated
[17:48] <knome> yep
[17:48] <knome> that's more than easy to achieve now
[17:49] <knome> we can even allow per-bug updates
[17:49] <knome> and show that date too
[17:49] <knome> as that's again a less resource-requiring task than updating all bugs
[17:49] <flocculant> I tend to err on the side of not adding bugs because of what bp says tbh
[17:50] <knome> hmm?
[17:50] <flocculant> if berty reads bp and it says things we'll fix this cycle - why would they not expect them to be fixed
[17:50] <knome> right
[17:50] <flocculant> should just edit the 'words'
[17:50] <knome> we can just change the description
[17:50] <knome> :)
[17:50] <knome> yep
[17:50] <flocculant> yea :)
[17:50] <knome> ok, so
[17:50] <knome> gone for a while
[17:51] <flocculant> and the thunar issue would probably always be better linking upstream not xubuntu
[17:51] <flocculant> yea - same - sunday evening stuff - bbl
[17:51] <knome> hf
[21:05] <Unit193> greybird-gtk-theme 3.22.1-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
[22:41] <bluesabre> Unit193, nice!


[16:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> Steven Jay Cohen: So, about stuff cluttering-up the GNOME dashboard... there's a command that should clean that up for you so long as you have installed ubuntustudio-menu. Let me figure out what that is....
[16:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> Try this: gsettings reset org.gnome.shell app-picker-layout
[16:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> That might do it, but I think there's another one. I'd have to open-up a gnome install sometime. :)
[16:40] <StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer: I collected all of the plugin icons into a Plugins folder (which makes sense for Gnome). They still do come up when I hit the Logo Key and start a search, but that command you left me does in fact clean things up a bit.
[16:41] <StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer: Is the reason that the LSP VSTs require the Jack versions (but the LADSPA versions don't) connected to the custom VST UIs?
[16:48] <StevenJayCohen> <Eickmeyer[m] "That *might* do it, but I think "> I don't mind being "that Gnome guy." It just turned out that my workflow didn't require KDE at all, so it didn't feel necessary to go that route. I'd be open to switching to something like Budgie if there was a compelling reason. But, right now I feel like the 2 UI teams with the most "pull" are the KDE team and the Gnome team. So, if a different GTK desktop
[16:48] <StevenJayCohen> were to be honestly displacing Gnome in adoption, I'd switch.
[16:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> Steven Jay Cohen: It has to do with a shared library that I had initially pieced-out to a lsp-plugins-common package, but that was supplanted when Debian took-over maintainership.
[16:51] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: certainly you are welcome to use gnome... I find so many of the ideas in gnome just make my work harder.
[16:52] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: My mind does not work well with the whole search based application start idea. I need a menu... and not a broken, non-standard one. The gnome team's we know best attitude when presented with fault's in their design doesn't help.
[16:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, I like the GNOME desktop, but for my purposes Plasma is just better. (KDE is the name of the development community, not the desktop). Also, I've been hired by the Kubuntu Focus project (kfocus.org) to do their packaging and UX, so there's that.
[16:53] <StevenJayCohen> <OvenWerks "Steven Jay Cohen: certainly you "> I watched a video where the youtuber finally got me to "grok" gnome (can't remember the channel). But, before that, I found it awkward too.
[16:54] <StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer: Right, I was a KDE user back in the early 2000s (before plasma) on SuSE. I haven't broken the habit of calling Plasma by the KDE name. :)
[16:55] <StevenJayCohen> > <@freenode_OvenWerks:matrix.org> Steven Jay Cohen: certainly you are welcome to use gnome... I find so many of the ideas in gnome just make my work harder.
[16:55] <StevenJayCohen>  * I watched a video where a youtuber finally got me to "grok" gnome (can't remember the channel). But, before that, I found it awkward too.
[16:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Steven Jay Cohen: Yeah, most people haven't. :)
[16:55] <OvenWerks> The other big problem for me with gnome is the removale of the window decorations, or the forcing me to use whatever window decorations they choose. The one they choose makes it hard to quickly see which window has focus. Gnome seems to have jumped on the convergence bandwagon and that is probably the right way to go for most people
[16:56] <StevenJayCohen> Yeah, not an issue for my workflow -- Reaper, Chrome, FoxIt Reader, Carla, Studio Control. That's it for me, really.
[16:56] <OvenWerks> gnome has become a single application at a time DE, for those of us used to using many wndows at a time, it is painful
[16:58] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: re:  https://github.com/ovenwerks/studio-controls/issues/26
[16:58] <StevenJayCohen> OvenWerks: I'm usually running Reaper and Evince (or FoxIt) side by side as I record. The un-focused window is greyed out but can still be scrolled. I'm not sure what else you'd need so I don't get the window decoration comment.
[16:58] <OvenWerks> I am not sure where such a line would go
[16:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: And neither am I. :D
[16:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'd imagine somewhere in the init.
[16:59] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: A different colour title bar would be excelent. mearly greying out things is almost invisible
[17:00] <StevenJayCohen> OvenWerks: Guessing that all my years on a mac (same behaviour) make me not notice it.
[17:01] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: if you look at the original Motif style window decorations, which predate the mac I think, the window decorations and uses are pretty clearly defined
[17:01] <StevenJayCohen> And, I agree -- it is all about convergence. When I see a DE that does convergence better (instead of fighting it and trying to define retro but pretty), I'll consider it :)
[17:02] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: in my opinion, a desktop computer (or even laptop) should use a DE style that is best suited for a desktop not a phone.
[17:03]  * OvenWerks is very much against convergence
[17:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Speaking of convergence, there's this: https://kde.org/announcements/pinephone-plasma-mobile-edition/
[17:04] <StevenJayCohen> OvenWerks: Yep, I get that. I'm accepting that we are in an evolutionary moment. And I understand why a DE might not want to be behind the curve as things evolve.
[17:05] <OvenWerks> I think that a hamer should be the best hammer it can be rather than working like a screwdriver because more people know how to use a screw driver
[17:06] <StevenJayCohen> I never buy a laptop with a touchscreen because I expect to type in a laptop. So, I understand your point of view.
[17:07] <StevenJayCohen> You could simply stop at saying that Gnome does not fit the workflow that you have developed over the years. That would be 100% true OvenWerks. It would be an un-arguable fact.
[17:08] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: having a laptop with a foldaway keyboard that can also be used as a tablet is an ok place to use a touch screen. Having said that, most of todays laptops seem to be a tablet with a wireless keyboard
[17:09] <StevenJayCohen> OvenWerks: and that is the argument for why the UI should support both usecases -- ie Convergence :D
[17:09] <StevenJayCohen> Now, if you prefer 2 distinct UIs that sense the devices orientation, cool!
[17:10] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: no, I think that gnome limits the usefulness of a desktop computer to a point that most people would simply select a tablet with a keyboard because a desktop serves no purpose
[17:10] <StevenJayCohen> Other people will prefer cnsistent behavior regardless of whether or not there is a keyboard connected
[17:11] <OvenWerks> plasma allows both workflows by changing settings, gnome forces only one.
[17:11] <StevenJayCohen> Yeah, not what I am seeing. We tested all of the Ubuntu flavors here before deciding on installing Studio into Gnome. Now, granted, there are more Mac users in this bunch than anything else. But, they liked Gnome best at that point.
[17:13] <StevenJayCohen> I totally get that you prefer a toggle between 2 distinct experiences OvenWerks -- that makes sense for your workflow.
[17:14] <StevenJayCohen> An FYI, they all hated ElementaryOS when I showed it to them.
[17:14] <OvenWerks> I use one workflow and I expect a DE _not_ to remove the possibility to at least change settings to schieve that
[17:14] <OvenWerks> *achieve
[17:16] <StevenJayCohen> Again, these are best presented as reasons why you do not like Gnome (or that you prefer Plasma) as opposed to what is wrong with Gnome.
[17:17] <OvenWerks> The availability of changing a DE to the user's preference is something every DE should have.
[17:17] <OvenWerks> (including windows and mac)
[17:18] <OvenWerks> It is a place where linux based DE could excel
[17:18] <StevenJayCohen> Yeah, this is no longer constructive.
[17:18] <StevenJayCohen> Have a good day
[17:18] <OvenWerks> Two one track minds :)
[17:20] <Eickmeyer[m]> Steven Jay Cohen: I didn't see this as an argument, you two have been very civil in your discussion. :)
[17:21] <Eickmeyer[m]> I have a lot of UX disagreements with OvenWerks , but at the end of the day, we want the same thing.
[17:21] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: the pinephone store still does not mention the KDE edition. They show the Manjaro edition
[17:25] <OvenWerks> I think the Manjaro edition also defaults to plasma though.
[17:29] <OvenWerks> I am guessing the next run of pinephones will be the KDE edition
[17:30] <OvenWerks> Each run gets a different "OS" (distro?)
[17:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> No clue.
[17:38] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I am wondering if the self.set_default_icon_name('studio-controls') should be self.window_main.set_default_icon_name('studio-controls')
[17:39] <OvenWerks> I have no way of testing either one as this already works with on plasma
[18:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Might be worth spinning-up a VM with MATE, or asking the bug reporter.
[20:00] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: self.set_default_icon_name('studio-controls') errors out, it seems self does not have such function ;) but self.window_main.set_default_icon_name('studio-controls') does not casue trouble nor does it stop plasma from showing the icon... so I will leave it in.
[20:01] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: it will be a while before it shows up in the repo though as I am part way through some other things
[20:05] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: That's fine. :)


[00:12] <xubuntu66i> hi i am a newbie convinced by my brother to use this OS. havent used UNIX or fortran for 25 yrs when i was at uni doing mech eng degree. i want to explore maths, physics and engineering this OS can run. pls advise


[20:42] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: platform.noble -> platform.oracular @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=be8179bc3fb5c6972eda005d819798fd1ae8d94b (by Steve Langasek)
[20:42] <bluesabre> Now that's a name.
[20:43] <krytarik> Woop!
[20:54] <SwissBot> feed platform had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
[20:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed sysstat, numactl and ethtool in standard @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8328ce7f39cb536f42d484a3bc696748d1199fac (by Robie Basak)
[20:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed trace-cmd (LP: #2051850) @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=6bf4f634f3a07f384f5f0b2180c23a7c493c58bd (by Robie Basak)
[20:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Follow the rename of ubuntu-advantage-tools to ubuntu-pro-client @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=059cf8e37e834625e004576e31b422c1bceeffe4 (by Christian Ehrhardt)
[20:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Definitively drop isc-dhcp-client @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=080b8d5f2e72d985764f78ce7451ab726b7add18 (by Steve Langasek)
[20:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: seed GCC 13 instead of 11 @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=faf1bf3dbc8adf62fbc6d49822fe16168edef11a (by Matthias Klose)
[20:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Remove pi-bluetooth @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=4f22d3ccc11a075898ceb6286eab22a3cfc6707b (by Dave Jones)
[20:55] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add unminimize to supported-cloud until 24.04 release @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=13102c75e85db422ce07526a785c85d671a426ba (by Utkarsh Gupta)
[23:10] <Unit193> Prepare for typos during the next 9 months! :P
[23:11] <krytarik> "ocular" XD
[23:18] <arraybolt3> Welcome to the release of Xbuntu 24.01 Ocular Osprey!
[23:29] <Unit193> Yes, Xubuntu coming at you in a plane, no a helicopter!


[02:47] <lotuspsychje> good morning
 "good morning" <- Hello lotuspsychje:
[03:01] <lotuspsychje> hey there ilvipero
[05:21] <lotuspsychje> !no bionic is <reply> Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic Beaver) was the 28th release of Ubuntu. Support ended May 31st, 2023. See !eol, !pro and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2023-May/000290.html
[05:22] <lotuspsychje> 18.04 needs a wipe from topic too in #ubuntu ?
[05:35] <tomreyn> thank you, lotuspsychje, and good morning.
[05:36] <tomreyn> both are done
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> hey tomreyn good morning to you too
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> tnx mate
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> i noticed, older versions differ from factoid texts
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> !20.10
[05:37] <lotuspsychje> !16.04
[05:37] <lotuspsychje> not sure if its important to still add !eolupgrade too?
[05:38] <tomreyn> eol + eolupgrade are the same
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> but now we got pro
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> great
[05:39] <tomreyn> so i think your suggested edit covers it all.
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> ok nice
[05:40] <lotuspsychje> esm is in fact pro now?
[05:40] <lotuspsychje> i couldnt find much on advantage anymore
[05:41] <lotuspsychje> !pro
[05:47] <tomreyn> i would think ESM is now part / a feature of the PRO subscription.
[05:47] <tomreyn> there are still both ubuntu.com/esm and /pro
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> i see
[09:54] <ogra> esm will vanish eventually and it should be all pro then ... but as long as that has not completely happened ...
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> tnx good to know ogra


[04:20] <ePierre> Hi!
[04:22] <Noskcaj> hello ePierre
[04:37] <ePierre> living in Asia, I often feel I'm in the bad timezone :D
[04:42] <Noskcaj> ePierre, A bitnorth of me, but probably a similar timezone (I'm AU)
[04:43] <ePierre> 12:43PM here
[04:44] <ePierre> Melbourne?
[04:53] <Noskcaj> sydney
[05:00] <ePierre> Nice!
[05:52] <pitti> Good morning
[09:32] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:37] <ePierre> hey davmor2  :)
[12:45] <om26er> ubuntu-qa could anyone please review this https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/address-book-service/test_dummy_service/+merge/225846
[12:50] <brendand> om26er, looking
[12:56] <brendand> om26er, address-book-service has no ui, so you can't use autopilot to test it
[12:57] <brendand> om26er, why do you need to have an -autopilot package? is it to distribute the helpers so that other tests can use them?
[12:59] <om26er> brendand, the service provides a dummy backend, it needs to be tested on a real app, so I had to use address-book-app to verify that. But really I am writing those tests to be able to produce reusable helpers for the UX test
[13:00] <om26er> brendand, the important part is in fixture_setup.py
[13:00] <brendand> om26er, what's the reason not to have the helper in address-book-app?
[13:02] <om26er> brendand, a bad change in the service can make the dummy backend stop working and we won't know if it did. only when the UX test starts failing
[13:05] <om26er> brendand, I am testing the service, not the app.
[13:05] <brendand> om26er, then by all means add a test for the service, but you don't need to package it in an autopilot package
[13:05] <brendand> om26er, if you're packaging it then you must intend for other tests to use part of it?
[13:06] <om26er> brendand, the test have dependencies and it needs to run in the CI
[13:06] <om26er> brendand, yes, other tests will use most of the code
[13:06] <om26er> re-use.
[13:07] <brendand> om26er, i don't think tests have to be in an autopilot package in order to run in CI
[13:08] <om26er> brendand, whats you suggestion ?
[13:10] <brendand> om26er, first of all can the test for address-book-service itself, and the helper code that might be used in other places be seperated?
[13:15] <om26er> brendand, the helper code sets a few environment variables and restarts the service so that the dummy backend of the service is started.
[13:15] <om26er> brendand, you mean in two different branches or in two different projects ?
[13:15] <om26er> the helpers can live anywhere but they belong to the service, as the fixture is trying to start the dummy service.
[13:16] <brendand> om26er, i think the helpers belong in address-book-app actually
[13:19] <brendand> om26er, because they are useful for tests that test the address-book-app
[13:19] <om26er> brendand, how ? address-book-app, messaging-app and the dialer-app all use address-book-service. The service provides contacts, what these helpers are doing is they start the service with a certain vcard so that *any* app that uses these helpers can be fasciliated
[13:21] <brendand> om26er, btw have you checked how this helper overlaps with the one that's already there in ubuntu-experience-tests (but about to be moved to address-book-app)?
[13:22] <brendand> om26er, that allows the running address-book-service to be interacted with
[13:23] <om26er> brendand, I did look at those helpers in ubuntu-experience-tests. What they are doing is they add/delete contacts live on the service. The developer of address-book-app guided us against that a few months ago and implemented this dummy backend for us
[13:24] <om26er> and I thought they were not being used by any UX test ?
[13:24] <brendand> om26er, but for experience tests do you think it's a good idea to use dummies/mocks?
[13:24] <brendand> om26er, we're supposed to be testing the whole system
[13:25] <brendand> om26er, for the address-book-app autopilot tests it's different, since we're only testing the app itself
[13:26] <brendand> om26er, the tests that are using it haven't been merged yet - it was specifically merged so that it could be shared between myself and rhuddie's tests
[13:27] <om26er> brendand, I do agree to that but half, adding a contact from an API is not the same as a user would add it from the UI :)
[13:28] <om26er> brendand, I can halt my branch for now, it can probably be used for integration testing in future.
[13:28] <brendand> om26er, maybe not, but you need to try and limit the scope of the test somehow
[13:29] <brendand> om26er, also using the ui to setup prerequisites makes for large and unmaintainable tests
[13:29] <brendand> om26er, i see some people are doing that though
[13:32] <om26er> brendand, the test I am working on has to interact with unity to launch app, messaging-app for sending the messaging and the address-book-service to reveal a contact to send the message to.
[13:33] <brendand> om26er, we should definitely have a standard way to launch an app via unity, otherwise it will be a mess
[13:33] <brendand> om26er, currently i'm not doing that but i would if there was a straightforward helper to use
[13:33] <om26er> brendand, I created one, you can use it when it gets merged.
[13:34] <om26er> its starting app from the launcher
[13:34] <brendand> om26er, and unless your test cases is actually about creating a contact, i don't see the problem with doing it via the service
[13:35] <brendand> om26er, a test case will nearly always have some prerequisites, and these should be created/configured in the most straightforward way possible
[13:35] <om26er> brendand, so you suggest I use the helpers from ubuntu-experience-tests to add a contact ?
[13:36] <brendand> om26er, let me move them to address-book-app (although you can start, because not much will change on using it except the import)
[13:48] <balloons> you were busy pitti :-)
[13:49] <pitti> balloons: hehe, yes; good morning!
[13:50] <balloons> good morning. I tried to follow along with the emails as you went through things. I agree that my original timeline was the same as yours, I figured we'd move over a slightly longer period ;-)
[13:51] <pitti> balloons: yeah, I was a bit paniced by the "by tomorrow" thing :)
[13:52] <balloons> yea, it was EOD for me and thomi started asking about it.. I mentioned that we finally had a solution and I was going to start working towards implementing it
[13:52] <pitti> balloons: so I think autopkgtest has the necessary functionality there (maybe a few beautifications)
[13:53] <balloons> yes, I played long enough last night to confirm that.. I think I agree. It's a bit rough still, but definitely seems to work
[13:53] <pitti> balloons: so it would be nice if you could update and land your calendar MP
[13:53] <balloons> so, I like the new syntax for depends. much nicer
[13:53] <pitti> balloons: and we need someone to fix notes-app
[13:54] <pitti> balloons: yeah, and no magic semantics
[13:54] <pitti> I mostly added the "autopilot": "foo_tests" to be compatible with existing apps
[13:54] <balloons> so, wow.. you were able to mark everything else invalid, really?
[13:54] <pitti> balloons: yes, I ran through them all :)
[13:54] <pitti> kept my phone busy this morning
[13:54] <balloons> that's really surprising
[13:54] <pitti> why?
[13:55] <balloons> well... I suppose not really surprising, heh. We've moved most things into the toolkit
[13:55] <balloons> hekoer
[13:55] <balloons> *helper
[13:55] <pitti> balloons: but NB that these are only the clicks we install by default; the store has many more :)
[13:55] <balloons> ofc ofc
[13:55] <pitti> but I suppose the default click apps are what matter for image verification etc.
[13:55] <balloons> yep
[13:56] <balloons> so, my other thoughts are to cleanup the debian packaging for the -autopilot packages
[13:56] <pitti> balloons: hah, new autopkgtest just got promoted to utopic
[13:56] <balloons> they are a bit broken too.. but I'll leave it alone
[13:56] <pitti> balloons: yeah, we can drop them all once we moved CI over
[13:56] <balloons> pitti, ohh, on the subject, are you going to backport to trusty?\
[13:56] <balloons> autopkgtest that is
[13:57] <pitti> balloons: I can issue a backport request, yes; until that lands you can just use the deb from utopic
[13:57] <pitti> in the lab (for production autopkgtest) I just run straight out of git, which makes deployment of fixes dead easy
[13:57] <balloons> pitti, I thought the deb would work straight up.. Many of the developers still use trusty, with a utopic vm
[13:58] <balloons> I told them to install the deb and linked it, but lol, last time I did that I sent them on a goose chase breaking there system so they didn't believe me ;-)
[13:58] <pitti> oh, really? it's a bit tricky on precise as there's no python3-debian yet; but on trusty it should just work
[13:59] <pitti> (I have a locally built precise backport for python3-debian for our friends in CI)
[13:59] <balloons> well.. I'm sure it works fine. I've had them play with newer versions of the toolkit and autopilot before.. those are more connected and what broke things in the past for them
[14:01] <balloons> pitti, link to the lp built deb? my local mirror is slow
[14:01] <balloons> autopkgtest - 3.1git1 that is
[14:01] <pitti> balloons: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/autopkgtest/autopkgtest_3.1git1_all.deb
[14:01] <balloons> ty
[14:01] <rvr> pitti: ping me when you are free
[14:02] <rvr> pitti: (I'm vrruiz :)
[14:02] <pitti> ah, I just /whois'ed :)
[14:02] <pitti> rvr: better just ask your question, I'm swamped in things anyway :)
[14:03] <rvr> pitti: I asked you yesterday to meet to check the problem I have with a test (dbusmock with callbacks)
[14:04] <pitti> rvr: ah, anything I can look at for this?
[14:04] <rvr> pitti: Hangout? I think it will be faster to introduce you to the problem
[14:04] <pitti> rvr: sure
[14:04] <rvr> Ok, let me create it
[14:05] <pitti> rvr: you aren't logged in
[14:28] <rvr> pitti: Details sent
[14:31] <pitti> rvr: so I wrote http://paste.ubuntu.com/7765896/ now, and it's completely invisible to "gdbus call -e -d com.example.DeepThought -o / -m com.example.DeepThought.Answer"
[14:33] <pitti> rvr: back in 15 mins, then I'll look at that
[14:33] <rvr> pitti: ok
[14:33] <balloons> pitti, sent you a mail with a few follow-up responses to my questions. I'll discuss once you've read ;-)
[14:37] <rvr> Hmm
[14:47] <pitti> rvr: so, neighbor cat is fed and caressed, continueing :)
[14:47] <rvr> lol
[14:47] <rvr> pitti: I tested your code here
[14:48] <rvr> $ python3 dbus-cb.py
[14:48] <rvr> DeepThought: method Answer called, will succeed
[15:02] <pitti> balloons: replied
[15:02] <pitti> rvr: it fails with 1/3 probability and succeeds with 2/3
[15:03] <pitti> (just to test both the error and success callbacks)
[15:04] <rvr> SometimesFlakyDeepTought :)
[15:04] <pitti> yeah, much more realistic that way :)
[15:04] <jibel> brendand, about your mtp transfer test, how is the file transferred from the device? via ssh xxxx@xxx "cp /<mtp address>/<filename> <local path>", correct ?
[15:04] <balloons> pitti, ok, I just proposed something for notes, but trying to run it with the new click= isn't working
[15:04] <brendand> jibel, essentially
[15:05] <pitti> balloons: oh, how so?
[15:05] <balloons> also, can you approve https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-calendar-app/autopkgtest/+merge/225910?
[15:05] <jibel> brendand, okay. so ssh doesn't have any active role in the transfer other than driving the host?
[15:07] <brendand> jibel, exactly
[15:07] <brendand> jibel, it's ssh not scp :)
[15:07] <jibel> brendand, yeah, just confirming :)
[15:07] <pitti> balloons: done
[15:08] <balloons> pitti, I can send the log and how I'm running.. one sec I'll paste
[15:08] <balloons> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7766046/
[15:08] <jibel> brendand, I think the test should just verify that the file is there and not corrupted like same checksum on both sides and that's good enough
[15:09] <brendand> jibel, good idea
[15:09] <pitti> balloons: ah, hah; it's --click=
[15:09] <jibel> maybe test with different sizes of files too, lot of small, 1 big ...
[15:09] <pitti> balloons: or --click com....
[15:09]  * brendand wonders how to hash several files together
[15:10] <pitti> brendand: funny, it's trying to interpret this as a source package name, and apt-get source interprets the =... as a  version to download
[15:10] <pitti> brendand: cat file1 file2 | sha1sum ?
[15:11] <pitti> balloons: but if you fixed the Exec=, don't you need to rebuild the click and test that instead of the preinstalled one?
[15:11] <brendand> pitti, cool. i didn't know sha1sum took stdin - i probably should have expected it though :)
[15:11] <pitti> brendand: welcome to Unix! :-)
[15:13] <brendand> pitti, yeah but you know you can't always assume X tool is going to be compliant. something as fundamental as sha1sum ought to be though i guess
[15:13] <pitti> balloons: oh, so that -I doesn't even come from ubuntu-app-launch and that broken Exec= line, but from the test itself?
[15:14] <pitti> brendand: regardless of that, I suppose the bogus $@ and the -I should be fixed in CMakeLists as well?
[15:14] <balloons> pitti, ohh, haha.. --click :-) Trying again
[15:14] <pitti> balloons: yeah, it's a bit nasty to fit all the different use cases into a concise CLI syntax, and bare identifiers are already taken for apt sources :/
[15:14] <balloons> pitti, yes, it's coming from the test itself.. The test controls how the app is launched
[15:15] <pitti> balloons: and as apt source names can contain '.' there is no solid way to tell apart a click and an apt source name
[15:15] <pitti> nor are click packages required to contain dots
[15:15] <balloons> pitti, right.. completely reasonable
[15:15] <pitti> so I iniitally thought about click:foo.bar
[15:15] <pitti> but it's not really simpler than --click=foo.bar
[15:16] <balloons> so, tests seem to be running now
[15:16] <pitti> balloons: so I like your idea of wrapping it in click-buddy, or phablet-test-run, or whatever
[15:17] <pitti> balloons: btw, '--- \ssh '
[15:17] <pitti> balloons: that \ is just to escape a line break; apparently the shell gracefully handles/ignores it here :)
[15:17] <balloons> pitti, ohh, btw, for the store clicks, I found out it's coming in a few weeks, but you'll have to be logged in to get them
[15:18] <pitti> balloons: ok, so I guess for now I'll completely ignore this and demand that you either have it installed or have the .click locally
[15:18] <pitti> and let the retrieval be an SEP :)
[15:19] <balloons> pitti, yea I assumed the --- \ stuff was to handle some shell weirdness
[15:19] <balloons> I discovered that when I left an additional space and it blew up :-)
[15:19] <pitti> balloons: I just put that into the documentation as they span two lines
[15:19] <pitti> which looks nicer than one long one, and separates the tests from the testbed args
[15:20] <pitti> balloons: one thing to make the command line shorter is to implement automatic source retrieval from the vcs-* manifest fields, but I haven't done that yet
[15:20] <balloons> so, since we are calling conventions, there's a couple other things to discuss. Could we give a reference to an lp branch?
[15:20] <pitti> (it would also slow down the test run quite a bit, though)
[15:21] <pitti> balloons: yeah, not sure about that yet; I'd have to teach it about bzr, git, hg and what not (as this should also work for Debian packages then)
[15:21] <balloons> also, is it necessary to pull the entire branch, or could we simply just copy in the tests/autopilot directory?
[15:22] <pitti> it depends on the test metadata
[15:22] <pitti> if it only has one "autopilot" test or only autopilot_module tests, then yes
[15:22] <pitti> (and not DEP-8)
[15:22] <balloons> pitti, the idea being I could specify a branch and have it do everything; as it stand if I want to run a whole suite of these I need to branch all of them
[15:22] <pitti> balloons: right, for that case automatic --click-source retrieval through vcs-* would help indeed
[15:22] <pitti> and then something like checkout --lightweight
[15:25] <balloons> pitti, right.. so that should handle the image verification case then I'd think
[15:26] <pitti> balloons: yes, something like adt-run --click foo --click bar --click baz --- ssh ..
[15:26] <balloons> the other half is the app developer workflow.. I think being able to re-use the temp directory would be helpful. Ohh that reminds me of what I was going to say
[15:26] <pitti> without the interspersed --click-source
[15:27] <pitti> balloons: apt-get without apt-get.. :)
[15:27] <balloons> pitti, yes indeed!
[15:27] <pitti> with a writable image this wouldn't be a problem
[15:27] <pitti> and we can't write to anywhere permanent
[15:27] <pitti> perhaps $HOME/.cache/
[15:28] <pitti> but then this leaks into other test, shadowing that your test misses test deps, so it shoudln't be done by default
[15:28] <balloons> pitti, so in theory if you unpacked the depends into /home/phablet/autopilot as is done now, because autopilot is on the image, etc, that would emulate how I test now.. aka, not requiring setup each time
[15:28] <pitti> balloons: well, you don't know which package versions you unpacked, whether there are updated versions, etc.
[15:28] <balloons> pitti, yes, it would be a non-clean env
[15:29] <pitti> I'm not going to rewrite half of apt
[15:29] <pitti> if we want apt, let's use apt; developers can use r/w
[15:29] <pitti> anything permanent without proper version tracking etc. is going to introduce potential bugs
[15:30] <balloons> yep, totally. I'm just thinking through how we can adopt a best practice from what's happening now
[15:30] <pitti> balloons: btw, a lot of the packages will disappear once libautopilot-qt will stop installing python2.7 and all those python 2 libs
[15:30] <pitti> balloons: and I hope in the medium term we'll get a better way of bringing the apt and click worlds together
[15:30] <pitti> mvo had some nice ideas about that
[15:31] <pitti> and it's like the #1 problem for convergence
[15:31] <balloons> the slowness of the testruns is a small price for the robustness. As it stands, most folks can't easily run tests due to hitting those hidden errors (bad env, missed depends, outdated depends)
[15:31] <pitti> like, system image plus a chroot for apt, and then permanently extending $PATH and friends
[15:32] <pitti> balloons: so, let's land the python2 sectomy fast, and jdstrand just told me how to shave off that minute for aa-clickhook
[15:32] <balloons> pitti, right.. once that's done the setup should be rather minimal
[15:33] <balloons> and nothing ever stops me from just pushing my tests and calling autopilot manually.. I can be my own tool if I wish for some reason :-) This brings sanity to the world
[15:33] <pitti> FWIW, "bzr checkout --lightweight" is surprisingly fast
[15:33] <pitti> balloons: right, or --shell
[15:33] <pitti> or -s
[15:34] <pitti> balloons: or running your tests in an LXC container, which is so much faster :)
[15:34] <balloons> so I think I'm pretty happy. Really we are left with working on making  invoking the testrun to be easier. Ohh, there is one thing I'm not thinking about..
[15:35] <balloons> How can I run a single test?
[15:35] <balloons> this hearkens back to be able to pass -v or other arguments as well Ithink
[15:35] <pitti> balloons: right, from autopkgtest's POV, "autopilot" is the one and only single test
[15:36] <pitti> balloons: that, or again --shell
[15:36] <balloons> yes, I could in theory change the manifest.. that's no good
[15:36] <pitti> balloons: we can invent somethign for passing additional args to the AP command (erk more special cases, but so what)
[15:36] <balloons> pitti, how does --shell work? It won't run till after the tests
[15:36] <pitti> balloons: for calculator-app I just commented out the tests in teh checkout and ran them then
[15:37] <pitti> balloons: right, -s or --shell apply after a test run; from then on you can run individual tests in that shell
[15:37] <pitti> (thus -s is usually more useful)
[15:37] <balloons> I think passing args is a bridge we'll need to cross at some point. But yes, it's not crucical..
[15:37] <balloons> yea, I still have to wait for the test run, but you are right. I can then invoke the tests any way I wish
[15:38] <pitti> right, let's keep that idea on the backburner
[15:38] <balloons> :-) So one final bug for passing args then?
[15:38] <pitti> balloons: in other news, of all the tests that I ran today, music-apps' were the most enjoyable
[15:38] <pitti> was nice to listen to some calming music which suddenly started playing :)
[15:38] <balloons> pitti, lol..
[15:38] <balloons> the backstory on music is kind of funny
[15:39] <pitti> balloons: final bug> I suppose so; I need to think about how to make this look not horrible
[15:39] <balloons> originally the random music playing wasn't so calming shall we say
[15:39] <balloons> pitti, yes.. here I am asking to make invoking the tests easier, yet demanding I be able to pass args!
[15:40] <pitti> balloons: so of all the packages in http://paste.ubuntu.com/7766218/ only the last two should remain, and they are only 550 kB
[15:40] <pitti> balloons: the fun thing is, downloading/unpackgin python2 stuff won't even *do* anything, as autopkgtest's magic will only work for python3 :)
[15:40] <pitti> (as there's no separate PYTHON3PATH and PYTHON2PATH, you can't mix the two locally)
[15:41] <balloons> pitti, ahhah. how true!
[15:41] <balloons> pitti, so I wonder who can review https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/notes-app/ap-setup-update/+merge/225992
[15:41] <pitti> balloons: actually, I wonder if my libautopilot-qt bug is correct
[15:42] <pitti> it should certainly be fixed, but I just realized that it's already installed by default (without recommends)
[15:42] <pitti> so it must be something else
[15:42] <balloons> pitti, my guess on the py2 stuff is we're going to end up with it for awhile.. I have a bug or two about making py3 default, etc
[15:43] <balloons> I'm not sure if there's a way they can package it easily to be a pure py3 install, with no py2 bits
[15:43] <pitti> balloons: so autopilot-touch is already installed
[15:43] <pitti> ooh!
[15:43] <pitti> it's ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot
[15:44] <pitti> that depends on all the py2 stuff
[15:44] <balloons> yes, autopilot could be removed from the images ;-) Ohh, speaking of which, in our depends can we actually specify a version? I assume not, as we're using apt, we're going to get whatever apt gives us
[15:44] <balloons> pitti, ohh, well hmm.. that might be a simple packaging fix
[15:44] <pitti> balloons: you can specify constraints like >= 1.2.3
[15:45] <balloons> pitti, ohh marvelous
[15:45] <pitti> balloons: you can also specify exact versions, but then your test will fail if apt doesn't have that
[15:45] <balloons> pitti, yes ofc.. but the autopilot disasters of breaking tests could be totally avoided this way
[15:45] <pitti> balloons: this is exactly why I argued so much about having separate pytho3-foo-autopilot packages, but nobody wanted to believe me back then :(
[15:46] <balloons> pitti, it's fine.. we can just blame elopio :-)
[15:48] <pitti> balloons: I have a meeting in 10 mins (tech board) and need to clean up a few things; would you mind filing a bug against ubuntu-ui-toolkit to stop depending on py2 stuff in ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot?
[15:48] <pitti> (or using alternative deps with py3 first)
[15:48] <balloons> pitti, I'll probably file the bug and then do an MP for it
[15:48] <balloons> if the change is simple enough
[15:49] <balloons> thanks for your help on everything.. quick iterations ;-)
[15:49] <elopio> I can prove my innocence.
[15:49]  * balloons waves to elopio
[15:50] <balloons> buenoes dias mae
[15:50] <balloons> so elopio see above.. do you think we can tweak ubuntu-ui-toolkit to depend on py2 or py3, so it doesn't pull py2 stuff?
[15:50] <balloons> I'm branching now to look
[15:50] <elopio> balloons: you are getting to the advanced jargon.
[15:50] <elopio> ¿quihubo?
[15:51] <pitti> balloons: thanks; I'll leave the night shift (US time) to you then :)
[15:51] <elopio> balloons: that's a question for barry. I suppose it will involve changing all the packages to use python3-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot, or python-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot
[15:52] <elopio> if we are to touch all the packages, it would be better to touch them to be py3, and then drop py2 from the toolkit.
[15:52] <pitti> elopio: well, I argued that to death with barry and thomi back then
[15:52] <pitti> and they didn't want to split the package
[15:52] <balloons> elopio, in french I would say pas mal.. I'm not sure about 'not bad' in spanish.. no mal ;-)
[15:52] <pitti> so I suppose we'll just move the deps to py3 and mop up the py2 breakage (I doubt that there's a lot)
[15:53] <balloons> elopio, could we drop py2 altogether from the toolkit?
[15:53] <balloons> honestly, why couldn't we at this point?
[15:53] <elopio> pitti: there are some. It's not yet a quick task, but one really needed.
[15:53] <elopio> otherwise we can't add those heleprs to the UX testing project.
[15:53] <elopio> balloons: not yet, we need to port some other projects.
[15:54] <balloons> elopio, breaking things always motivates.. there's likely to always be a lingering project
[15:54] <balloons> fair enough.. I'll just file the bug then
[15:55] <pitti> elopio: apt-cache rdepends ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot doesn't look bad
[15:55] <pitti> elopio: and hopefully most of those *-autopilot packages are ported to py3 now?
[15:56] <pitti> rvr: sorry, seems I got sucked into the discussion with balloons for too long, Tech board now; promised, will look tomorrow morning!
[15:56] <balloons> ohh lookey what I found: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1249235
[15:56] <rvr> pitti: Thanks!
[15:57] <elopio> balloons: that's done.
[15:58] <balloons> elopio, ahh I misread it.. the title was misleading
[15:58] <elopio> balloons: there's one that's driving me crazy
[15:58] <elopio> maybe you can try to find what's going on, that will help.
[15:58] <balloons> elopio, sure thing..
[15:59] <elopio> balloons: https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/dialer-app/py3autopilot/+merge/220658
[15:59] <balloons> elopio, ok, so this is just converting the dialer to py3, and you still get an error right?
[16:00] <elopio> balloons: I don't, neither barry. Just jenkins gets the error.
[16:00] <balloons> perfect.. I'll debug :-)
[16:00] <balloons> I love fixing jenkins only erros
[16:00] <balloons> I've done it so much, hah!
[16:02] <pitti> balloons: just saw your mail reply -- ^5s!
[16:04] <pitti> I thought dialer-app has used py3 for a long time already
[16:04] <pitti> so apparently not
[16:29] <elopio> brendand: I get this with the py3 branch:
[16:29] <elopio> have_phonesim = out.startswith('[ /phonesim ]')
[16:29] <elopio> TypeError: startswith first arg must be bytes or a tuple of bytes, not str
[16:30] <brendand> elopio, of what - messaging-app?
[16:31] <elopio> brendand: yes. Running the UX tests with the py3 messaging app branch.
[16:31] <brendand> elopio, that's odd because i specifically fixed that issue
[16:33] <elopio> brendand: oh, I'm using the fix action items branch
[16:33] <elopio> I thought py3 was a prerequisite for that one. Sorry.
[16:34] <brendand> elopio, ok - ignore my response in the other channel :)
[16:35] <elopio> I will :)
[17:43] <phillw> elfy / balloons The only things noticed in testcase 1483 (Alternate Install - Guided) are.... min does not work (I'm guessing they took it out as it was actually doing max and max was doing min). And the prompt to unmount an already mounted system - which is to be expected on a side by side install. I think it does a merit a mention in the test case, as a new tester may think it is an error and we don't need more bugs :P
[17:56] <balloons> phillw, please add that to the bug report.. Well, add just what needs to be changed in your opinion. That said, you are probably the best person to change it as well if you are willing
[18:02] <balloons> If nothing else, just pasting a revised copy of the test in the bug would make it possible for someone to do it
[18:04] <phillw> balloons: I'm not an editor,
[18:04] <phillw> I'll do that.
[19:22] <elopio> balloons: july 10th. You missed the month on your email.
[19:38] <phillw> balloons: bug 1335669
[19:39] <balloons> elopio, ty.. man, I need to update that in severla places ;-(
[23:33] <phillw> balloons: I'm  saddened that nothing has happened for the issue on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
[23:34] <phillw> balloons: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hardinfo/+bug/1308853
[23:40] <knome> u
[23:40] <knome> oh bah
[23:41] <knome> that's not what and where i was supposed to write!


[22:48] <mnaines> nunu: Use a separate hard drive to install Linux, then once it is installed, plug in the bad drive and he should be able to read the data on the drive
[22:48] <janj> anyone know the difference between terminal server client and remote desktop viewer (Vinagre)
[22:49] <nunu> we bootet ubuntu from disk
[22:49] <nunu> but ntfs-3g can't mount the partition
[22:49] <nunu> is there a way to force it or so?
[22:49] <mnaines> nunu: I think there should be, but I do not know what that command would be
[22:49] <CavalierPrime> nunu:  in gnome go to places/computer and you should see any hds on the system
[22:50] <cpjr72> nunu, I didn't see the drive error bit, the live CDs show me my Windows 7 drives without doing anything special you should see the fat32 drive no problem I'd think
[22:50] <nunu> its a laptop :/ another HD is not really an option :/
[22:50] <alecs_gnomer> I need help with a little problem.....
[22:50] <cpjr72> nunu USB external HD
[22:50] <mnaines> nunu: Does it have an ExpressCard slot?
[22:50] <cpjr72> cases are like $10 now.. throw and old drive in it
[22:50] <nunu> didn't quite get that cpjr72 my english sucks =)
[22:50] <joebodo_> can fsck run on ntfs ?
[22:50] <alecs_gnomer> GTK... can't install on Ubuntu 8.04
[22:51] <cpjr72> nunu: an external USB drive
[22:51] <nunu> CavalierPrime, the auto mounting doesn't work :/
[22:51] <nunu> external USB drive what for?
[22:51] <WanHouse> navap: Interresting eh ;) / read the code
[22:51] <rabby> after dist upgrade i worry about Quanta's print preview which opens gimp instead of a lightweight gtk-print or kprinter dialog :-(
[22:51] <nunu> why should I install ubuntu when the live disk can't mount it?
[22:52] <thomazz> my network doesn't work. the error message I get when using the command: "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart" is the following: Can't allocate interface eth1lease { interface . Failed to bring up eth1
[22:52] <alecs_gnomer> Hey Hey... I need help..
[22:52] <mnaines> nunu, I can run eSATA on my laptop using a Silicon Image eSATA ExpressCard adapter
[22:52] <alecs_gnomer> Problems with GTK library
[22:52] <joebodo> nunu possibly it wont automount due to the drive not being shut down correctly -
[22:53] <tarzan> hi
[22:53] <dumont> !bot
[22:53] <dumont> !tell user permissions
[22:54] <dumont> grr
[22:54] <janusito> que onda esto?
[22:54] <nunu> I'm confused now -.- ... I'm not sitting next to the laptop... so its hard do do such things, my friend has not really an idea what he's doing there...
[22:54] <janusito> para mi que es la tangente
[22:54] <nunu> he told me, that he tried to recover with his xp boot cd
[22:55] <nunu> but it all went wrong eeror 5 or so
[22:55] <FirstSgt> all I wanna do is exec this in a shell:  wget -qO - http://www.mysite.com/ipupdate.php?officeip=$officeip  but i think what is happening is officeip is getting reset or something, cause its not working
[22:55] <tarzan> one question, i updated to karmic yesterday. it seems like (at least) gtk+ based apps seem much snappier than before. even java/swt is usable now. what changed?
[22:55] <zamba> what does this mean: ondemand governor failed, too long transition latency of HW, fallback to performance governor ?
[22:55] <dumont> what permissions and where do i set for a user to be able to chmod other user's files?
[22:55] <trism> FirstSgt: you're going to want to quote the url, otherwise the ? will cause problems
[22:56] <FirstSgt> trism: oh, didn't think about the ?
[22:56] <FirstSgt> shucks
[22:56] <FirstSgt> ok, i try
[22:56] <thomazz> my network doesn't work. the error message I get when using the command: "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart" is the following: Can't allocate interface eth1lease { interface . Failed to bring up eth1
[22:57] <comutamike> Guys - turns out that if you run out of space on your harddrive that it prevents the menu files from being saved and preserved correctly... looks like i got a busy weekend moving my /home partition - CavalierPrime - thanks for your help...
[22:58] <PCTeacher012> I wish emachines was smart enough to include the model of my bios <_<
[22:58] <dumont> what permissions and where do i set for a user to be able to chmod other user's files?
[22:58] <FirstSgt> trism: still doesn't appear to be running
[22:58] <FirstSgt> i tried this: `wget -qO - "http://www.complimentsinternational.com/ipupdate.php?officeip=$(officeip)"`
[22:59] <PCTeacher012> Too bad i lose all my programs when i restore ubuntu :(
[22:59] <PCTeacher012> 61%...
[23:00] <trism> FirstSgt: $(something) executes a command, you want ${officeip}
[23:00] <ikus060> Hi, I need some help with my lvm setup. I've reinstall ubuntu and lost my lvm configuration. So I want to re-assemble my lvm to access the logical volume
[23:00] <Dream-Ubu> how do i get out of a directory in terminal (i can remember in cmd but never terminal)
[23:00] <ikus060> May any body assit me ?
[23:00] <FirstSgt> trism: ok, kind of like php )
[23:00] <coz_> ikonia,  if no one here knows  you might want to go to the   ##linux channel
[23:01] <aza_> try cd ..
[23:01] <PCTeacher012> coz_: I went unnoticed in ##linux lol
[23:01] <PCTeacher012> no one helped me :p
[23:01] <ZykoticK9> tarzan, ask your same questino in #ubuntu+1
[23:01] <coz_> PCTeacher012,   it may be the time of day
[23:01] <The_Doctor> Dream-Ubu: You can also try    clear.
[23:01] <coz_> PCTeacher012,   it is  6PM here in the eastern US
[23:01] <tarzan> ZykoticK9, thanks
[23:02] <PCTeacher012> coz_: There is less than half of the people in ##linux then #ubuntu :p and like 4PM here in western us xD
[23:02] <coz_> PCTeacher012,   i dont know where most of the people in ##linux hail from
[23:02] <PCTeacher012> me either lol
[23:02] <nunu> why should installing ubuntu help me mounting that ntfs partition, when the live disk can't mount it? can anyone tell me that?
[23:02] <nunu> didn't get that ^^
[23:02] <coz_> PCTeacher012,   they may be european hold on let me see if I can check
[23:02] <PCTeacher012> coz_: KK :p
[23:02] <navap> nunu: That didn't make sense to me either.
[23:02] <maco> nunu: you're right. thats a nonsensical answer
[23:02] <Dream-Ubu> the_doctor: that just leaves me in the same directory doesnt take me out of it
[23:03] <The_Doctor> Sorry
[23:03] <PCTeacher012> navap and maco: same here haha. It wont find /dev/sda1 on live CD. but boots from it without live cd haa
[23:03] <aza_> what do you mean by that  /
[23:03] <PCTeacher012> Funny thing: I have a windows partition, but no windows -_- I NED TO FIND MY XP RESTORE CD <_< lol
[23:03] <Dream-Ubu> the_doctor: dont be ^^ blame my colllege for teaching me cmd
[23:04] <coz_> PCTeacher012,   cant find too much out   ...a few are european  many are US  as far as I can see
[23:04] <zopiac> im getting an xml file not found errorin cinelerra, can anyone help me?
[23:04] <dumont> what permissions and where do i set for a user to be able to chmod other user's files?
[23:04] <PCTeacher012> or get windows 7 ^_^
[23:04] <nunu> but you understand what I'm trying to tell you? ... what the problem is?
[23:04] <PCTeacher012> and coz_Yea, idk
[23:04] <The_Doctor> Dream-Ubu: I have a bunch of cheat sheets.
[23:04] <PCTeacher012> 75% done ^_^
[23:04] <coz_> zoli2k,  which xml file is it asking for?
[23:05] <pepperjack> dumont: chmod 744 or chmod +4
[23:05] <thomazz> please someone help me
[23:05] <dumont> pepperjack, what do i need chmod for???????????
[23:05] <thomazz> my network doesn't work. the error message I get when using the command: "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart" is the following: Can't allocate interface eth1lease { interface . Failed to bring up eth1
[23:05] <PCTeacher012> !ask | thomazz
[23:05] <pepperjack> dumont: oh wait didnt read your q well
[23:05] <dumont> pepperjack, when i need to allow 1 user the ability to chmod another file
[23:05] <dumont> by another user
[23:05] <Dream-Ubu> the_doctor: city and guilds level 2 - ict system support, and they've not covering ANYTHING Linux, wheres the sense?!
[23:05] <thomazz> ubootu, I asked the question like 10 times..
[23:06] <sebsebseb> thomazz: ubottu is a computer program not a person
[23:06] <Dream-Ubu> the_doctor: i have to learn linux in my own time...
[23:06] <dumont> pepperjack, i have www-data and i need to give it access and ability to chmod 777 onto files created by userA
[23:06] <The_Doctor> dumont:  Sometimes you can just right click on the file and browse to the premissions tab and change it there.,
[23:06] <PCTeacher012> thomazz: When you installed ubuntu, maybe your ethernet driver was not installed
[23:06] <dumont> NOT IN GRAPHICAL!
[23:06] <coz_> thomazz,  many of us have just joined  not long ago so we may not have seen  your post
[23:06] <pacifica> G'day all - does anyone know how to set the title of a gnome-terminal from a script running the the gnome-terminal?
[23:06] <The_Doctor> Dream-Ubu: I have been trying for 7 years and 202 distrobutions.
[23:07] <thomazz> everything worked well in 5 months.. I think it's related to me switching on wireless network
[23:07] <alteregoa> ethernet driver, yeah i kike those drivers, they drive fast
[23:07] <DarkSmoke> guys i have a big problem
[23:07] <nunu> did I miss a solution to my problem? navap maco PCTeacher012?
[23:07] <Dream-Ubu> The_Doctor: ubuntu and DSL been playing with ubuntu since 8.04
[23:07] <coz_> pacifica,  does this script title the terminal  something different?
[23:07] <dumont> i don't need specific file manipulation i need to grant user www-data the ability to change userA's files, such as use chmod on userA's files
[23:07] <PCTeacher012> nunu: What was the question again?
[23:07] <pacifica> coz_: I can't find a way to change the title at all
[23:07] <PCTeacher012> thomazz: Just might be, but im not sure.
[23:08] <Dream-Ubu> The_Doctor:  DSL just didnt do it for me, not pleasing...so...i went with the shiney debain
[23:08] <DarkSmoke> all linux distros are reading my hard disc as empty even ubuntu. and i have windows installed on it which i can boot fine and i have a store partition which works fine too, pls someone help me i wish to get linux soon back to my pc !!!
[23:08] <coz_> pacifica,  but is this script  changing the title?
[23:08] <pacifica> it is set to user@host:~$
[23:08] <alteregoa> sannabis cativa is the name of my cat
[23:08] <thomazz> PCTeacher012: okey.. I didn't change anything else network related..
[23:08] <pacifica> which script?
[23:08] <nunu> mounting a ntfs partition which has a defect boot sector or something like that, out of the running live disk ubuntu
[23:08] <ttestt> hello. i have a problem using VLC with v4l2 :( cant choose :v4l2-standard=8, video standard work is not predictable
[23:08] <coz_> pacifica,  I thought you said you wanted to change the title of the terminal  that the script ran in
[23:08] <The_Doctor> dumont: here is a link to a chmod tutorial http://catcode.com/teachmod/
[23:08] <nunu> PCTeacher012, mounting a ntfs partition which has a defect boot sector or something like that, out of the running live disk ubuntu
[23:08] <thomazz> would it help if I paste my ifconfig and send you an URL
[23:08] <pacifica> coz_: I would like to know how a script can change the title
[23:08] <coz_> pacifica, oh
[23:09] <coz_> pacifica,  mm
[23:09] <DarkSmoke> all linux distros are reading my hard disc as empty even ubuntu. and i have windows installed on it which i can boot fine and i have a store partition which works fine too, pls someone help me i wish to get linux soon back to my pc !!!
[23:09] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, see "-t, --title=TITLE Set the terminal title" from "gnome-terminal --help-all".  good luck.  Eterm had that functionality back in the day as well.
[23:09] <hedkandi> crikey I can't get mplayer to work!
[23:09] <hedkandi> why not?
[23:09] <PCTeacher012> nunu: If it is a file system error on ntfs partitions part, you must go into windows (the only ntfs operating system i know of) and run chkdsk
[23:09] <mikejet> If two processes are doing " cmd >> logfile", will each write append to the end, or will their output overlap?
[23:09] <coz_> pacifica,   if it is chaning the title it is likely to be listed in the script if you want the script to change the title you will have to enter that   I cant help you with that
[23:09] <pacifica> coz_: if you look at the preferences in gnome-terminal, you can run a command in the terminal to change the title dynamically
[23:09] <The_Doctor> Dar
[23:09] <hedkandi>  it gets as far as saying "mpeg-ps file format detected" and hangs
[23:09] <pacifica> unfortunately they don't say which command!
[23:09] <The_Doctor> did you put windows on after linux? You said you wanted to get it back.
[23:10] <PCTeacher012> Gotta restart to finsish ubuntu restore, brb
[23:10] <thomazz> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-362782.html
[23:10] <nunu> PCTeacher012, and there is the problem, the windows system wont boot, and the xp boot cd wont work either
[23:10] <DarkSmoke> The_Doctor: i had this computer for 2 years and iv been playing around with oses for the whole 2 years so i had windows and linux and mac osx  and freebsd and more many times on this pc
[23:10] <pkkm> Will HP officejet 5600 work with Ubuntu?
[23:10] <pacifica> ZykotickK9: if I do gnome-terminal --title="whatever" ... it still does not display that title
[23:11] <The_Doctor> DarkSmoke: Is the linux the last install?
[23:11] <coz_> pacifica,   try looking here   http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-terminal/stable/
[23:11] <pepperjack> pkkm: linuxprinting.org usually gives you a good idea
[23:11] <pepperjack> !hardware | pkkm
[23:11] <yasia> неподскажите что надо установить или настроить чтобы нормально работали Яваскрипты?
[23:11] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, you're right!  i tried and failed ???
[23:11] <pkkm> !ru | yasia
[23:12] <DarkSmoke> The_Doctor: its not installed, cause i cant installing, all distribution installers read my hdd as empty :|
[23:12] <pkkm> pepperjack, thanks
[23:12] <pacifica> coz_: I've read that doc
[23:12] <pacifica> it says:
[23:12] <pacifica> Use this drop-down list to specify how to handle dynamically-set titles, that is, terminal titles set by commands that run in the terminal.
[23:12] <pacifica> the thing is : what commands??
[23:12] <pepperjack> !printers | pkkm will be of more help
[23:12] <Moon_Doggy> would someone using 9.04 pastebin the sources list
[23:12] <enatom> ubuntu has gone slow, since i just updated everything...
[23:13] <tipi> By mistake I deleted all the applications and system->settings in the menu panel in gnome. I already tried to reset the panel which brought back the applications but not the "system->settings". How bring back the settings?
[23:13] <Xptical> how do I make Windows the default in GRUB2?
[23:13] <MJEvans> Can anyone name the program to do the Windows Migration stuff again after Mint has already been installed?  I really don't want to re-run the installer and spend another hour downloading updates just to fix everything being imported in to a single account.
[23:13] <nutterpc_> wow
[23:13] <nutterpc_> busy morning
[23:13] <The_Doctor> DarkSmoke: Have you tried to install on the windows os using WUBI. It makes linux a file on your Microsoft OS.
[23:13] <MJEvans> Xptical: sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst  Copy the section that has the windows stuff to above the ### line above the linux kernels.  Do not insert the 'other operating systems' section.
[23:14] <cambo> yo yo any NIS gurus about?
[23:14] <DarkSmoke> yes i know The_Doctor but i dont wish for that
[23:14] <Xptical> not GRUB...GRUB2
[23:14] <yasia> i've got a problem. Java-scripts don't work in mozilla and Konqueror=\ What i need repair or install?
[23:14] <yasia> sorry for my english pl
[23:14] <yasia> s
[23:14] <yasia> *
[23:14] <MJEvans> Xptical: grub2?  Isn't that not supported by ubuntu until 9.10 ?
[23:14] <hedkandi> which repository is libdvdcss in?
[23:14] <hedkandi> restricted?
[23:14] <Xptical> using the beta
[23:14] <MJEvans> !next
[23:15] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, i just installed eterm and it works there, "Eterm -n NameYouWant"...  gnome-terminal I don't know about sorry.  FYI it's not a good idea to be writing scripts that reply on a windows name for the gui - what if it's running in a shell?  Good luck.
[23:15] <MJEvans> Xptical: try joining #ubuntu-next (IIRC)
[23:15] <cambo> yo yo any NIS gurus about?
[23:15] <MJEvans> no wrong chan
[23:15] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: Try adding the medibuntu repro.
[23:15] <MJEvans> Xptical: | Karmic Beta (9.10) Support in #ubuntu+1
[23:15] <infid> is there a hot key to lock the screen in ubuntu?
[23:15] <Xptical> thanks
[23:16] <pacifica> coz_ / ZykotickK9: I think it might change the title but then change it back
[23:16] <hedkandi> The_Doctor: you mean repository?
[23:16] <pacifica> so effectively it doesn't change it....
[23:16] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: Yes
[23:16] <pacifica> but technically it might have....
[23:16] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: That has all the multimedia codecs.
[23:16] <hedkandi> The_Doctor: what's the package name?
[23:16] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, you need a !who and try and keep all you repsonses on 1 line - it's MUCH easier for everyone to follow stuff
[23:17] <nunu> jesus ... windows sucks ... am I glad using linux -.-
[23:17] <pacifica> ZykotickK9: I've got many tails on many similar logs....  very useful to havea  meaningful title....
[23:17] <violet523> hey when ive been using envyng and using the package it installs, my box gets locked on reboot
[23:17] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: Its not a package, its a repository. Do a google search on how add it.
[23:17] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, oh I will use them for menu shortcuts and odds and ends
[23:17] <pacifica> ZykotickK9: its one line on my big display :-) ...make the window bigger...
[23:18] <fluid> ive tried and tried to figure this out. when i use this external drive, i want it read-write to all users instead of the user logged in at the keyboard. ive tried writing policies, everything i can think of...i give up. anybody know how? lol
[23:18] <hedkandi> The_Doctor: ooh yes you are right
[23:18] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, use TAB completion for nicks - mines still off ..ckK9 is wrong
[23:19] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, thanks :-)
[23:19] <Ademan> anyone know of a good 16 bit x86 disasembler? can i somehow use gcc or gas to do that?
[23:19] <violet523> its using the nvidia binary drivers, or was, the only way to then get back into a usable x is to goto single user mode and change the driver module from nvidia to nv
[23:19] <hedkandi> The_Doctor: there's a package in ubuntu called libdvdread4
[23:20] <hedkandi> which claims to contain dvd descrambling
[23:20] <hedkandi> but it seems to be screwy
[23:20] <erUSUL> hedkandi: no dvdcsss comes in a separate lib aviable in medibuntu
[23:20] <MrSchmo> anyone know what is the best program to clone your hdd to other hdd?
[23:20] <erUSUL> !medibuntu
[23:20] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: but I am surprised that when you tried to play the media you are having trouble with, you were not presented with a choice to install the codecs.
[23:20] <erUSUL> MrSchmo: clonezilla ?
[23:21] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, installed eterm .. but no eterm command?
[23:21] <MrSchmo> erusul, is that simple to do? it has a gui
[23:21] <dexter_> hi
[23:21] <dexter_> whats the best ragnar benson book
[23:21] <erUSUL> MrSchmo: dunno never used it. only know about it
[23:22] <erUSUL> !ot | dexter_
[23:22] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, no thank you for fixing the nic thing - now it highlights :) - Linux is case senitive so it's "Eterm"
[23:22] <dexter_> ubuntu is linux right?
[23:22] <bazhang> dexter_, yes
[23:22] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, right... let me try that .... :-)
[23:22] <Curly_Q> MrSchmo you could probably try Norton's Ghost with Windows and try to see if the Ubuntu will boot up as an experiment.
[23:22] <dexter_> and you all use ubuntu right
[23:23] <hedkandi> why not put the codecs into ubuntu restricted or multiverse then?
[23:23] <bazhang> dexter_, did you have an actual support question
[23:23] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, that works like I'd expect it to work.... guess no-one uses gnome-terminal's titles on Ubuntu??
[23:23] <ZykoticK9> dexter_, ask same question in #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:23] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: they should be there. What was your problem/
[23:23] <nunu> thx for the help anyway @ll... glad we all use linux =) gn8
[23:23] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, if you ask me it's a bug...
[23:23] <MJEvans> Help ;     howto Windows Migration (assistant?) after install?
[23:23] <MrSchmo> curly_q i need something that is free. norton ghost need to be purchased to use right?
[23:24] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: Why were you asking for the codec/
[23:24] <Curly_Q> Yes.
[23:24] <pradeep> is the any macromedia flash for linux
[23:24] <Kirsle> how do you download a .deb file out of the apt repos without actually installing it? i.e. the redhat equiv is doing e.g. `yumdownloader firefox`, which places firefox-*.rpm in the current working directory. can this be done in ubuntu?
[23:24] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, is it a bug? (now it is :-P)
[23:24] <pepperjack> !backup | MrSchmo
[23:24] <dexter_> yes if you are using ubtutu wich is linux then you must be parinoid out of you minds so therefore you should have every copy of the ranger  beson collection under you bed near your AK therefore you should be able to tell me what is the bet one
[23:24] <hedkandi> ok
[23:24] <codnik> Hello everyone. I'm having an issue with 32472808
[23:24] <joebodo> !ot | dexter_
[23:24] <bazhang> dexter_, please take chat to #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:24] <codnik> lol... sorry about that
[23:25] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, actually after reading my first google hit i doubt it is.  something to do with dynamic naming in gnome-terminal.
[23:25] <trism> pradeep: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
[23:25] <hedkandi> there doesn't seem to be an i686 version of these media codecs!
[23:25] <MrSchmo> pepperjack, thanks. definitely take a look at it
[23:25] <hedkandi> which I think is a bit serious
[23:25] <hedkandi> because i686 is much better than i386
[23:25] <hedkandi> ?
[23:25] <Curly_Q> There are other software such as Ultra ISO and more that makes ISO files and Ghosts Hard Drives.
[23:25] <The_Doctor> hedkandi: yes there is. What made you think you needed them. What didn't work?
[23:25] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, its probably a "feature" ... like I said I think it does change it but then something else changes it back!
[23:25] <Alex____> Does anyone have any ideas of a way to get several package files onto a computer that can't get internet? (Specifically ubuntu-restricted-extras, compizconfig-settings-manager, emerald, screenlets, vlc)
[23:25] <pradeep> not plugin trism
[23:26] <tipi> By mistake I deleted all the applications and system->settings in the menu panel in gnome. I already tried to reset the panel which brought back the applications but not the "system->settings". How bring back the settings?
[23:26] <hedkandi> how do I choose between the 686 and 386 versions then?
[23:26] <RyNo> im trying to run a .run file and I checked "allow executing file as a program" but I have to run it as a super user "sudo" can I do both?
[23:26] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, guess I need to find a way to kill the "something else"
[23:26] <fxhp> A recent patch seems to have broken my sound... Has this been a compliant recently?
[23:26] <RyNo> or do I have to run it from terminal if Im gonna run it as a super user?
[23:26] <Curly_Q> There is also Magic ISO
[23:26] <Alex____> RyNo: You could also do gksudo nautillus and then navigate to it
[23:27] <pradeep> not flash player bt the macromedia
[23:27] <trism> pradeep: there are a few applications that will generate swf files, but they weren't great last time I checked (which was a while ago)
[23:27] <erUSUL> hedkandi: i386 and i686 are two ways of saying 32 bits as oposed to amd64 or x86_64 that are two forms of saying 64 bits
[23:27] <codnik> I'm having an issue with latest update of Karmic... I'm wondering if that's a common issue. Whenever it asks me for authentication to install an update or remove a package, it locks on that window, after I enter my root password and press authenticate. Sometimes closing this dialog makes it work normally, sometimes it just freezes.
[23:27] <pacifica> Alex____, you can download the debs then get them on a media that you can get into the computer without internet
[23:27] <erUSUL> !karmic | codnik
[23:27] <RyNo> im near clueless when it come to linux terminal commands
[23:27] <pradeep> ok
[23:27] <Curly_Q> Data Recovery software can create a mirror image of a hard drive.
[23:27] <ZykoticK9> Alex____, fyi i have tried to get ubuntu onto computers without internet on a number of occasions - i've learned a ton about ubuntu packaging that has helped in other areas - but i have yet to actually accomplish it.  apt-on-cd is something to look into for sure.  Best of luck :)
[23:27] <hedkandi> the difference is non-trivial actually
[23:27] <pacifica> Alex____, the only "problem" is you need to make sure you include all the dependencies...
[23:27] <RyNo> im trying to run the ATI driver for catalyst 9.9 for my HD 4350
[23:28] <RyNo> cant seem to run it in terminal for some reason
[23:28] <trism> pradeep: the best ones were mostly just for programming (adobe flex has a linux version and haxe will generate swfs)
[23:28] <alteregoa> kimg yong il?
[23:28] <Alex____> pacifica: I figured that much, my problem is trying to GET the package files to be able to transfer them... Someone suggested Apt-on-CD but it only got things from the update manager... none of my personal downloaded packaged
[23:28] <erUSUL> RyNo: why not use System>Admin>Hardware drivers ?
[23:28] <bazhang> alteregoa, ??
[23:28] <Dream-Ubu> whats the command to install gstreamer-dev, becuase i type that and well, it doesnt install
[23:28] <alteregoa> ah wrong channel
[23:28] <pacifica> Alex____, the site http://packages.ubuntu.com/ lists the dependencies for each package
[23:28] <Curly_Q> Greets to The_Doctor. I haven
[23:28] <Curly_Q> t
[23:28] <Curly_Q> seen you in a while.
[23:28] <hdon> hi all. almost all of my windows (even the root window/desktop http://codebad.com/x-corruption.png) have become corrupted! by resizing a window i can get it to redraw, but is there an easy way to get them all to redraw?
[23:29] <Alex____> pacifica: But where can I go to actually get the package files to transfer them?
[23:29] <RainyLithuanian> ok, me haz problemz: I have Eee 1000 and external monitor and ubuntu 9.04 netbook remix. The fail is: when I use external monitor I can't use pivoting, (unless I turn the resolution into acceptable to my inbuild lcd i.e. 800x600), although I have disabled inbuilt monitor!!
[23:29] <Ademan> hdon: intel drivers?
[23:29] <dexter_>         /srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/08/27/#ubuntu.txt
[23:29] <RyNo> i see the FGLRX driver in hardware drivers but it says "activated but not currently in use"
[23:29] <pacifica> Alex____, for instance take this one:
[23:29] <pacifica> Alex____, http://cz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/adduser/adduser_3.110ubuntu5_all.deb
[23:29] <hdon> Ademan: no, nvidia
[23:29] <ZykoticK9> Alex____, all the debs on a system are stored in /var/cache/apt/archives it's the package database update that has always given me troubles "sudo apt-get update" is not so simple to move to a computer without internet
[23:29] <dexter_> no halbar espanol
[23:29] <pacifica> Alex____, use "wget" on the Linux commandline to get the deb
[23:29] <infid> is there a way to make a shortcut that kills a window i click on?
[23:30] <pacifica> Alex____, or use a web browser to download it.
[23:30] <Ademan> hdon: :-/ well that's definitely a driver or xorg issue...
[23:30] <dexter_> de uno beh flugo
[23:30] <RainyLithuanian> who is responsible for x-serv bugs?
[23:30] <joebodo> infid look into wmctrl
[23:30] <erUSUL> infid: there is apanel applet to do that. right click on the panel and choose add to panel
[23:30] <hdon> Ademan: i dont' disagree at all. i just want a temporary fix to get my windows to redraw, especially the root window
[23:30] <dexter_> no se unma sedar
[23:30] <erUSUL> infid: search for it in the list
[23:30] <Ademan> infid: there's an applet, you can right click on your panel and hit add to panel then pick "Force Quit"
[23:30] <MJEvans> Help ;     howto Windows Migration (assistant?) after install?
[23:30] <Curly_Q> RainyLithuanian, you need first before you ask any question here is to explain which MODEL of the Monitor and MAKE it is in your question.
[23:31] <bazhang> dexter_, please stop that; random chat in #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:31] <RainyLithuanian> ok, the make is SAMSUNG F2080
[23:31] <hedkandi> can anyone say what /etc/network/interfaces is please?
[23:31] <hedkandi> I don't understand a word of the doco
[23:31] <Alex____> pacifica: But how can I find out the web address for the specific package file? all I know is it's name, eg. ubuntu-restricted-extras
[23:31] <erUSUL> hedkandi: a file to configure the network interfaces of the machine
[23:31] <ZykoticK9> hdon, i haven't been following you problem.  but does starting xkill and clicking on the application menu launch fit your bill?
[23:31] <Ademan> hdon: i'm not sure how to coax the root window into redrawing, but if you're using metacity you can write a devilspie script to resize every window and resize them back, needn't be too much work
[23:31] <hdon> hedkandi: it's a configuration file that defines networking interface
[23:32] <Curly_Q> Then Rainy look it up on Google and see if it is compatible with Ubuntu and whether the manufacturer made drivers for it in your case.
[23:32] <erUSUL> hedkandi: for a desktop managing them via network manager is preferable
[23:32] <hedkandi> erUSUL: so what does this file tell them to do then?
[23:33] <kraito_> i can't play my music on amorak 2.0 when i click on it, can anyone help?
[23:33] <Alex____> ZykoticK9: And I'm not sure if I messed something up... but /var/cache/apt/archives doesn't have many of the debs I've gotten with apt-get install
[23:33] <angelus> hi, i am trying to access my house's wireless network from my laptop which has jaunty; i tried going to the 'Network' link in the Places menu, the only thing i see there is "Windows Network" and when i click there i see an error message saying : Unable to mount location ; Failed to receive share List from Server : what am i doing wrong ???
[23:33] <erUSUL> hedkandi: they configure ip netmask gateaways even routes. sssid in the case of wifi
[23:33] <infid> thanks erUSUL and Ademan
[23:33] <Curly_Q> I would suggest Rainy to you is to disconnect the monitor not while the computer is on but while off and go back to your computer and set the resolution to the lowest resolution. Then try the monitor.
[23:33] <joebodo> !samba
[23:33] <Joshua^^> hi everyone. Have a Gateway t-series laptop that won't install Ubuntu 9.04
[23:34] <ZykoticK9> Alex____, theoretically it should have virtually all of them?  don't know why they wouldn't be there...  mystery.
[23:34] <Ademan> kraito_: try selecting a different output system, gstreamer, alsa or pulseaudio
[23:34] <erUSUL> hedkandi: and a long etc. if you are interested there is plenty of info in the web
[23:34] <tipi> By mistake I deleted all the applications and system->settings in the menu panel in gnome. I already tried to reset the panel which brought back the applications but not the "system->settings". How bring back the settings?
[23:34] <Joshua^^> just hanges.
[23:34] <infid> is there a reason 'ctrl-alt-l' is so slow to lock your screen?
[23:34] <edulacomadreja> hi! does someone has used an anviz ao280 fingerprint device?
[23:34] <RyNo> my FGLRX driver is showing "activated but not currently in use" can someoen help me with this?
[23:34] <angelus> thanks joebodo
[23:34] <hedkandi> erUSUL: ie where to send packets
[23:35] <hedkandi> Does the kernel automatically attempt to use any / all available network interfaces?
[23:35] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, found the problem.... even though /etc/bash.bashrc section is commented out
[23:35] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, its still in ~/.bashrc
[23:35] <erUSUL> tipi: right click on the panel and choose add to panel. in the list of applets there is the one that draws the menus (there are two versions one with only one button and the default Apps Places System menu )
[23:35] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, so after commenting out that bit, things like xtermset -T "title" work....
[23:35] <hdon> ZykoticK9: what's jaunty's default key combo for xkill?
[23:35] <albertong> hi!
[23:35] <pacifica> ZykoticK9, thanks for helping to think about this :-)
[23:35] <Alex____> ZykoticK9: That's why apt-on-cd isn't working for me... ubuntu-restricted-extras, screenlets, emerald and compizconfig-settings-manager aren't in the folder
[23:36] <hdon> Ademan: is there a metacity scripting language? or metacity interfaces for another scripting lang?
[23:36] <ZykoticK9> pacifica, "# If this is an xterm set the title to user@host:dir" nice catch :)
[23:36] <erUSUL> hedkandi: the kernel only loads the drivers for the nic (or modem or whatever) and present userspace with the interface to configure (ethx wlanx pppx sit pan br etc)
[23:36] <Joshua^^> system powers up. Ubuntu loads. I pick my language "English" then select "Try without any changes to your computer" and it just hangs.
[23:36] <Curly_Q> Tipi if you want to fix that make sure that when you set up a USER ACCOUNT in ROOT, backup all of your important data from ROOT and then go back to root and delete the account and create the same account if you want those drivers or things you did.
[23:37] <tipi> erUSUL__ already tried that, but if I add a new menu to the panel, no system-> settings
[23:37] <ZykoticK9> hdon, xkill has a hotkey?  news to me.
[23:37] <hdon> :(
[23:37]  * ale_ Hi
[23:38] <violet523> so does anyone know about implimenting opengl using an nvidia geforce 5200?
[23:38] <lukes> hello. I suspect the spindown time for my hdd is too low. how can I check the current value?
[23:38] <erUSUL> tipi: works here...
[23:38] <erUSUL> !resetpanel | tipi
[23:38] <preecher> is there a way i can make a copy of my ubuntu that will have all the progs that i have
[23:39] <pacifica> Alex____, just browse http://packages.ubuntu.com
[23:39] <erUSUL> violet523: System>Admin>hardware drivers
[23:39] <tipi> ubottu already tried that, no change
[23:39] <Joshua^^> No HD activity,  CD in  drive does not spin.
[23:39] <erUSUL> preecher: use partimage or clonezilla ? to backup the hard disk
[23:39] <a_> can someone please tell me how to change ownership on an external HD? I've tried chown, but it didn't take effect.
[23:39] <erUSUL> !clone | preecher
[23:39] <albertong>  i have some probleme with the internet connexion sharing through my windows xp service pack 3 os to ubuntu server 9.04
[23:39] <albertong>  i can ping all os but i can't ping google on ubuntu server
[23:40] <pacifica> Alex____, if you search there for ubuntu-restricted-extras
[23:40] <tipi> erUSUL but works usually but not when they are deleted I guess
[23:40] <erUSUL> albertong: what error do you get ?
[23:40] <preecher> thanks
[23:40] <pacifica> Alex____, you'll get http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ubuntu-restricted-extras&searchon=names&suite=jaunty&section=all
[23:40] <erUSUL> albertong: from ping
[23:40] <ZykoticK9> Alex____, i see your problem!  i don't have those deb file either.  still looking though.
[23:40] <pacifica> Alex____, then click on "jaunty" (for instance)
[23:40] <pacifica> then at the bottom of the page there's a download section
[23:41] <violet523> erUSUL: he only problem is when i use the NVIDIA accelerated graphics drivers (173) X won't load up and i can't even get to a virtual terminal
[23:41] <Joshua^^> should I pick OEM install?
[23:41] <pacifica> click on there, it will take you to a list of mirrors
[23:41] <erUSUL> !envyng | violet523
[23:41] <Alex____> pacifica: I see. I thought you were somehow trying to do like sudo wget ubuntu-restricted-extras and I wasn't following lol
[23:41] <pacifica> Alex____, then right click one of the mirrors and choose Copy Link Location
[23:41] <pacifica> Alex____, then paste that after "wget"
[23:41] <gasmask> Hi guys
[23:42] <violet523> erUSUL: yeah that was the program i first tried
[23:42] <pacifica> Alex____, this needs to be like this since you might be downloading for a completely different version of Ubuntu
[23:43] <starcannon> Does anyone here play Savage 2?
[23:43] <Alex____> pacifica: I just hadn't noticed that you could download the debs off packages.ubuntu.com
[23:43] <pacifica> Alex____, there you go :-)
[23:43] <gasmask> I'm having a problem with "Terminator" terminal emu. It won't read the config file at /home/USERNAME/.config/terminator/config. Any hints?
[23:43] <Guest1> :)
[23:43] <albertong> erUSUL : unknow host www.google.com
[23:44] <erUSUL> albertong: and if you use a numeric ip ? ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:44] <MadsRH> Trying to run "make && sudo make install" but I get an: make: *** No specified target and no makefil found. Stop.
[23:44] <erUSUL> albertong: maybe it is just that you do not have nameservers defined
[23:44] <infid> how do you disable the thing that shows bubbles of your pidgin messages? i thought it was indicator-applet but i removed it and it's still happening
[23:45] <gasmask> I'm having a problem with "Terminator" terminal emu. It won't read the config file at /home/USERNAME/.config/terminator/config. Any hints?
[23:45] <albertong> erUSUL: same error from ping
[23:45] <mistergibson1> what is the best channel for chatting on motherboards?
[23:46] <gasmask> Hi swoody!
[23:46] <violet523> if gdm is hanging because of an incorrect module, what key combo will force quit it?
[23:46] <erUSUL> albertong: same error? unknown host ? it is not no route to host? or something else ?
[23:46] <erUSUL> mistergibson1: ##hardware ?
[23:46] <PhreeStyle> having a problem with sbackup, hope someone can help. When I set the scheduled time, it won't let me set the hour higher than 13. If I manually enter 19, it resets back to 13. Anyone know how to fix this?
[23:47] <Joshua^^> When installing ubuntu, how long does it take before you see any progress indicator?
[23:47] <melherndon> Anyone gotten Wink to work with Ubuntu? I have symlinked the required libraries, but the install still gripes about it
[23:47] <tuffax> hey guys.. is there a way to share packages across a network?
[23:47] <hassanakevazir> Is there a good application I can use to organize a large number of videos? Like how rhythmbox is for audio files. is there a video library application?
[23:49] <albertong> erUSUL:not i have configured my gateway properly!
[23:49] <winterswift> hassanakevazir: i think Miro would do that
[23:49] <erUSUL> hassanakevazir: banshee supports video afaics (but i have not used it much for that)
[23:49] <colosseum> Hi all. Is there any1 who can helkp for me about apach2 and joomle?:)
[23:49] <erUSUL> albertong: :) ok
[23:49] <albertong> and i can see my gateway by type " route -n "
[23:49] <gasmask> hassanakevazir: you can use miro. It does a prity good job, also downloads internet videos from youtube I think. http://www.getmiro.com/
[23:49] <hedkandi> hello
[23:49] <ZykoticK9> gasmask, do you remember did you have to create the directory terminator and then create the config inside the directory?  cause it certainly not their by default on my system.  still testing though..
[23:50] <gasmask> winterswift: haha I was typing it as you did too! too good!
[23:50] <winterswift> gasmask: :D nice
[23:50] <lulu> Bonjour
[23:50] <ZykoticK9> gasmask, could you also verify that "echo $XDG_CONFIG_HOME" doesn't come up with anything on your system either?
[23:50] <gasmask> ZykoticK9: Yeah, I did have to create it
[23:50] <hedkandi> what's a good chatroom to talk about tcp/ip
[23:51] <gasmask> ZykoticK9: ok, one sec
[23:51] <LjL> hedkandi: ##networking i assume?
[23:51] <FMsoundmaster45> http://itpro.no/art/14658.html
[23:51] <hedkandi> thx!
[23:51] <gasmask> ZykoticK9: yeah, nothing
[23:51] <winterswift> hedkandi: #tcpip?
[23:52] <winterswift> #tcpip
[23:52] <hassanakevazir> winterswift, erUSUL, gasmask , I can't install Miro thought, there is a conflict with in it with a 3rd party rep I use for VDPAU support. I guess I'll take a look at banshee, forgot to search in sourceforge too , thanks
[23:54] <winterswift> hassanakevazir: theres also Mplayer, not sure about libraries though
[23:54] <cody> Hello everyone! I need help setting up a network printer. It is connected to my computer (a desktop) which is directly connected to my modem. I want the printer to be available over the wireless network. How do i accomplish that?
[23:54] <gasmask> hassanakevazir: hmmm, I'll see there is a .deb for it...
[23:54] <ZykoticK9> gasmask, re- XDG... good.  ok -- i got terminator to read my config file..?..?..
[23:54] <ae86-drifter> it the printer connected with ethernet cable using a print server or do you want to share it via usb? or what
[23:55] <cody> The printer is connected to my USB. My computer is connected to my modem via ethernet.
[23:55] <gasmask> hassanakevazir: here is a deb from getdebs: http://www.getdeb.net/app/Miro
[23:55] <gasmask> ZykoticK9: did you do anything special?
[23:55] <ae86-drifter> have u got the cups drivers installed
[23:56] <cody> ae86-drifter: Yes, i do. The printer is Brother MFC-210C and i can print from my computer right now
[23:56] <cody> The operating systems of the wireless computers are vista
[23:56] <ae86-drifter> lucky
[23:56] <ZykoticK9> gasmask, my entire config file is just "[keybindings] / full_screen = <Ctrl><Shift>F12" but i swithed it from F11 and it accepted the change fine.  are you sure it's in ~/.config/terminator/ and called config?
[23:56] <ae86-drifter> i do technical support for brother printers
[23:56] <RainyLithuanian> fail, I believe the problem lies in some bug
[23:57] <RainyLithuanian> not in under-support
[23:57] <jenia> join c++
[23:57] <ae86-drifter> are you sharing to other linux machines?
[23:57] <jenia> ups
[23:57] <cody> ae86-drifter: No, it will be to windows vista machines
[23:57] <invitingdopeman> how do i register my nickname
[23:57] <ae86-drifter> you need to configure your samba server then
[23:57] <lstarnes> !register > invitingdopeman
[23:57] <cody> ae86-drifter: How will i do that?
[23:57] <gasmask> ZykoticK9: "pwd    /home/john/.config/terminator "  "ls   config"
[23:58] <ae86-drifter> cody: create a share for the printer in system > Administration > Samba Config, make sure samba is installed
[23:58] <ZykoticK9> gasmask, also look at what "terminator -d" gives you for output - see if anything jumps out about the config file and an error or missing type stuff
[23:58] <cody> ae86-drifter: There is no selection called samba config. The command would be sudo apt-get install samba correct?
[23:59] <ae86-drifter> cody: exactly
[23:59] <m0r0n> How do I unmount my cd drive located at /media/cdrom0 as root
[23:59] <nossralsuva> cody: sudo apt-get install system-samba-config
[23:59] <cody> ae86-drifter: Okay, installing now
[23:59] <lstarnes> m0r0n: sudo umount /media/cdrom0
[23:59] <nossralsuva> m0r0n: sudo umount /media/cdrom0