[00:00] <raul_> great!
[00:00] <raul_> thanks for the tip
[00:00] <knome> no problem
[00:00] <knome> that's a quite new project also
[00:01] <raul_> the only problem is the title of window is not correctly aligned
[00:01] <raul_> unless I put all buttons in window (shade, stick, max, min and close)
[00:02] <raul_> I couldn't find a solution for this...
[00:02] <knome> i suppose that's never right in the center if you don't have the same amount of buttons in both sides
[00:02] <knome> i don't think you can affect that within the theme, it's in the xfwm code
[00:03] <knome> to find that out, maybe ask in #xfce-dev
[00:03] <raul_> I think the same way
[00:03]  * ochosi starts reading the log
[00:03] <knome> OOOH
[00:03] <knome> the ochosi
[00:03] <knome> you didn't go to holiday then? :P
[00:05] <raul_> oh! I forgot something: the css3 code that I made is a little messy D:
[00:06] <raul_> I'm not very good in Inkscape, so I had to do the graphics of rain theme in html and CSS
[00:06] <ochosi> knome: i'm leaving tomorrow (to shorten the backlog)
[00:06] <knome> hehe
[00:06] <ochosi> the xfwm theme doesn't look bad at all
[00:06] <knome> raul_, so there is ochosi/simon ^ !!
[00:07] <raul_> hi :)
[00:07] <ochosi> the buttons are a bit big, but i like the shades
[00:07] <ochosi> hey raul_
[00:07] <knome> ochosi, it's quite like the old albatross, right?
[00:07] <raul_> I plan to make a black variant also
[00:07] <ochosi> hmyeah, actually one problem that catches my eye is that the minimize button and the menu-button are the same
[00:07] <ochosi> that
[00:08] <ochosi> that's not a very good idea imo
[00:08] <raul_> yes :(
[00:08] <ochosi> raul_: does the theme pick up gtk-colors?
[00:08] <raul_> I do not know what to put in menu button :(
[00:08] <raul_> hm no... D:
[00:09] <ochosi> k, well that can be dealt with later (color-pickup)
[00:09] <raul_> I used gcolor2 and I was looking in it until I find a good color
[00:09] <raul_> then I got this mix of blue and gray
[00:10] <ochosi> mhm, it should be no problem to do that with color-pickup
[00:10] <ochosi> it's a bit of work, but then the xfwm theme will also work with other themes/colors
[00:10] <raul_> I was thinking about removing the menu button because if you right-click it window the popup appears
[00:11] <ochosi> yeah, well, that's not really the point :)
[00:11] <raul_> in window*
[00:11] <ochosi> i think that a theme for xfwm should be complete, because users might change the default setup
[00:11] <raul_> hmm
[00:11] <knome> agreed with ochosi
[00:12] <raul_> was also thinking of another icon because it looks like the minimize button
[00:12] <ochosi> in your setup it's clear which is the menu button and which is minimize, but everyone can change the button order by d'n'd (and that's a good thing)
[00:12] <ochosi> another thing: what happens when you reorder the maximize/minimize/close buttons?
[00:12] <ochosi> (i mean visually)
[00:13] <charlie-tca> ochosi: I started the panel review on the ML
[00:13] <raul_> It looks a bit strange :(, I do not know, but xfwm has a limitation on the "padding" button, I'll try to see it
[00:13] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, just saw that. thanks!
[00:13] <ochosi> raul_: what padding button? (not sure i get it)
[00:14] <raul_> The problem is the rounded corners
[00:14] <ochosi> rounded corner of the window?
[00:14] <ochosi> or of the buttons
[00:14] <raul_> if all buttons be square, the bug is fixed
[00:14] <ochosi> ah, right
[00:14] <ochosi> well there are also other things you can do, e.g. only show that 3d-ish border on hover
[00:15] <ochosi> or only make the close-button stand out
[00:15] <raul_> but square buttons looks strange too, it doesn't combine with the rounded corners of the window
[00:15] <ochosi> yeah, i agree, the effect is nice
[00:15] <ochosi> but it comes at a price
[00:15] <ochosi> (oh wow, am i speaking in rhymes?)
[00:15] <knome> haha
[00:16] <knome> artists...
[00:16] <knome> ;)
[00:16] <ochosi> yeah, i guess it's because i'm sober ;)
[00:16] <knome> hah, !drunkard
[00:16] <knome> ;)
[00:16] <ochosi> raul_: what are your thoughts on the "-" and "+" greybird uses for maximize and minimize?
[00:17] <ochosi> knome: yeah, we should really get the bot back in #shimmer!
[00:17] <knome> ochosi, i was having some rum earlier... :)
[00:17] <raul_> I will send another screenshot
[00:17] <raul_> http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2821/screenshot0725201109160.png
[00:17] <raul_> (the focus button)
[00:17] <ochosi> that's on hover?
[00:17] <raul_> pressed
[00:17] <ochosi> ah
[00:17] <knome> this theme maybe reminds me of windows vista somehow
[00:17] <raul_> :P
[00:17] <knome> the not-completely square buttons
[00:17] <ochosi> would you mind just sending me the theme via email, so i can test it a bit?
[00:17] <ochosi> yeah, it's pretty vista-ish ;)
[00:17] <raul_> I think about increase the inset shadow
[00:18] <ochosi> with this i guess people would be bitch-slapping us for looking like mac *and* windows
[00:18] <raul_> this theme is inspired in old longhorn themes and the buttons of google chrome in Windows
[00:18] <ochosi> mhm, i see
[00:19] <raul_> and equinox too
[00:19] <ochosi> what i like is the separator between menubar and window-borders
[00:19] <knome> mm
[00:19] <ochosi> and the bg-gradient
[00:19] <raul_> :)
[00:20] <ochosi> that could even work with the current greybird-buttons
[00:20] <knome> huh?
[00:21] <ochosi> i mean adding a separator between menubar and window-controls/borders
[00:21] <raul_> oh! I forgot, the hover buttons: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9222/screenshot0725201109200.png
[00:21] <knome> ochosi, mm
[00:21] <raul_> (this is the css version)
[00:21] <ochosi> mhm
[00:22] <ochosi> i'm thinking maybe we can have the window-border with separator on active windows and merged (as in the current greybird theme) in inactive windows
[00:22] <ochosi> (yes yes, i know we've been there...)
[00:22] <knome> haha
[00:23] <raul_> yes, I pa
[00:23] <raul_> planned*
[00:23] <raul_> to make a gtk theme for this xfwm theme
[00:23] <raul_> but I don't know about gtk 2 \:
[00:23] <ochosi> knome: well, now that lubuntu is closing in on us theme-wise again, i guess it's a good idea to take a step ahead into the past ;)
[00:23] <knome> haha
[00:23] <raul_> and "merge" the window and menubar
[00:23] <raul_> like shiki-colors, elementary, ambiance theme and equinox
[00:24] <ochosi> raul_: merging them is not too hard
[00:24] <ochosi> but first thing you should do for that is support xfwm's gtk-color pickup
[00:24] <ochosi> which means you have to have xpm and png icons for every button
[00:24] <ochosi> (twice the icons, twice the work to draw/maintain)
[00:24] <raul_> hmm
[00:25] <raul_> http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5691/buttongm.png
[00:25] <raul_> this is the pressed buttons of min and max
[00:25] <ochosi> i like that more than the pressed button of close
[00:25] <knome> mm
[00:26] <ochosi> the light reddish color looks a bit like you couldn't decide between going red or not :)
[00:26] <knome> ochosi, something like this is what i kind of tried to achieve with the new albatross buttons
[00:26] <raul_> so, I make all buttons with blue color? (hover and pressed?)
[00:26] <ochosi> raul_: no, maybe make the red a tad stronger
[00:26] <ochosi> knome: if you want we can work more on them when i'm back
[00:26] <raul_> hover or pressed? or the two?
[00:26] <ochosi> raul_: don't think i've seen hover of the close-button
[00:27] <knome> ochosi, yeah, whenever you have time :)
[00:27] <ochosi> raul_: +only
[00:27] <ochosi> err
[00:27] <ochosi> i'm getting tired...
[00:27] <raul_> fine :) http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4670/closez.png
[00:28] <raul_> this is the hover of close
[00:28] <ochosi> mhm
[00:28] <raul_> or I already sent this?
[00:28] <raul_> oO I forgot
[00:28] <ochosi> nope, don't think so
[00:28] <knome> i'm not sure if i like the red hue
[00:28] <knome> it's a bit dirty, while the other colors look like metallic or something like that
[00:28] <ochosi> ok, if you look at the hover of max and min and close, the max/min is 1) a lot more saturated and 2) has a different gradient/glow
[00:29] <ochosi> that should be more consistent
[00:29] <raul_> and if the close button be blue too?
[00:31] <raul_> hmmm
[00:31] <ochosi> probably, then it's less vista-ish i guess
[00:32] <raul_> fine, I'll change :)
[00:32] <raul_> thanks
[00:32] <knome> if it's blue too, then it won't have the contrast to the other buttons any more
[00:32] <ochosi> np, i'm just telling you what i think :)
[00:32] <knome> it might be white as well
[00:32] <raul_> hm D:
[00:33] <raul_> maybe orange?
[00:33] <raul_> hm, no D:
[00:33] <raul_> or navy blue
[00:37] <raul_> Well, if I rearrange the buttons (max, min and close), some of them don't have the side edge. I tried to put a negative value in the "spacing button" but didn't work
[00:37] <raul_> button spacing, I mean
[00:38] <ochosi> mhm
[00:39] <ochosi> don't think there's much you can do about that
[00:40] <raul_> http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/991/closeminmax.png I don't have any idea how to fix this \:
[00:40] <ochosi> raul_: as i said, i don't think it's really fixable
[00:40] <raul_> oh, sorry
[00:41] <ochosi> btw, you can test the changes i did (and am doing) to greybird by downloading it from our git-repository
[00:42] <raul_> is this repository https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird right?
[00:42] <knome> raul_, yes
[00:42] <raul_> the xubuntu 11.10 will come with gtk 3?
[00:42] <raul_> (thanks)
[00:43] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu 11.10 will use gtk2, but we have to include gtk3 for the parts we borrow from Ubuntu
[00:43] <charlie-tca> It's kind of complicated.
[00:44] <ochosi> it basically means we have to have two themes, one for gtk2 and one for gtk3 apps
[00:44] <raul_> that's why I decided to don't start making a gtk theme for this xfwm theme, because I don't know if I'd use 3 or GK2
[00:44] <raul_> gtk 3 or 2
[00:45] <raul_> gtk2 I know a bit
[00:45] <raul_> but some engines like murrine, no :(
[00:46] <raul_> hm, the github is very slow today, 6.0 kb/s
[00:47] <ochosi> lucky for you the tarball isn't very large ;)
[00:48] <raul_> :P
[00:48] <raul_> 4 min left, but chrome can't finish the download
[00:48] <ochosi> pff, that's annoying
[00:48] <ochosi> are you sure it's github's fault?
[00:48] <raul_> I think yes :( 'cause my other downloads are normal
[00:49] <raul_> (I pause them)
[00:49] <raul_> 8 min :|
[00:49] <raul_> I think is the https
[00:50] <raul_> hm, the download failed
[00:50] <ochosi> weird
[00:50] <ochosi> works fine for me...
[00:50] <raul_> I removed the "https"
[00:50] <raul_> and is 27 kb/s now
[00:50] <ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/master
[00:50] <ochosi> did you use this address?
[00:50] <raul_> yes
[00:51] <ochosi> hmkay
[00:51] <raul_> but if I put the https
[00:51] <raul_> I can't download
[00:52] <ochosi> to the worst try again later/tomorrow
[00:52] <raul_> looks very great!
[00:52] <raul_> I like the main colour
[00:52] <raul_> and the panels
[00:53] <ochosi> thanks
[00:53] <ochosi> nice to hear
[00:53] <raul_> a inset shadow in the button of active window would be great in my opinion
[00:54] <raul_> like ambiance
[00:54] <ochosi> how exactly?
[00:55] <raul_> http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/theme_image04.png
[00:55] <raul_> Like this
[00:55] <raul_> see the "broadcast" button
[00:56] <ochosi> still not sure i get it. what exactly?
[00:56] <ochosi> oh
[00:56] <ochosi> you mean on the panel?
[00:56] <raul_> the shadow :)
[00:56] <raul_> of the active window button
[00:56] <ochosi> yeah, but on the panel :)
[00:56] <raul_> yes:)
[00:56] <ochosi> i thought you were talking about window-buttons
[00:56] <raul_> I like the albatross panel buttons too
[00:57] <ochosi> yeah, that could look nice, i'll consider it
[00:57] <raul_> the albatross panel buttons have more details
[00:57] <raul_> I tried to make a modification of greybird with the albatross panels but I don't know
[00:58] <raul_> I couldn't to this, I think is because of the difference of the gtk engines
[00:58] <ochosi> greybird generally uses a very flat panel style
[00:58] <ochosi> nope, they both use murrine for that afaik
[00:58] <raul_> strange .-.
[00:59] <raul_> the xubuntu 11.10 will have the overlay scrollbars too?
[01:00] <ochosi> probably not by default
[01:01] <raul_> so, I can send my xfwm theme via e-mail?
[01:01] <raul_> I can upload in skydrive/mediafire too
[01:01] <ochosi> no, email is better
[01:02] <raul_><EMAIL_ADDRESS>right?
[01:02] <ochosi> hm, yeah, if you want it to be public, then send it to the mailing-list
[01:03] <raul_> Hm... which another e-mail I can send?
[01:03] <knome> simon@ &<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:03] <ochosi> you can also send it to me if you like :)
[01:04] <ochosi> knome posted his and my email addr avobe
[01:04] <ochosi> arr, above
[01:04] <knome> adobe?!
[01:06] <raul_> thanks I sent the e-mail
[01:06] <raul_> with the css file too
[01:06] <ochosi> k, thanks!
[01:06] <knome> thanks
[01:07] <raul_> :) I find a hack to get the buttons with the window line
[01:07] <raul_> I left a blank space in active close/max/min button
[01:07] <knome> raul_, so if we will use some of your work, what name should we use in the attribution, and what license too?
[01:07] <raul_> GPL (I use greybird xfwm theme for this)
[01:08] <raul_> and "Raul de Sousa"
[01:08] <knome> okay, thanks
[01:08] <raul_> I don't have twitter, and this e-mail is not my main e-mail
[01:08] <raul_> I pretend to migrate to g-mail soon
[01:08] <knome> hehe
[01:08] <ochosi> raul_: hm, the buttons feel a bit bulky and big tbh
[01:08] <raul_> I don't like hotmail D:
[01:08] <ochosi> and the color doesn't match the new greybird-blue :)
[01:09] <knome> if you are changing your email, can you send mail from that when you've migrated, so we'lll get the right address too
[01:09] <raul_> hmm, which colour I can use?
[01:09] <raul_> a light colour?
[01:09] <ochosi> either implement gtk-color pickup (as previously mentioned) or redraw all the icons each time the colors in the gtk theme change by hand :)
[01:09] <ochosi> that's approximately the options you have
[01:10] <ochosi> unless you decide to keep the colors static, no matter what theme is used
[01:10] <raul_> hmm, so I will modify the css code and print the page again
[01:10] <ochosi> yeah, that's also an option
[01:10] <raul_> but I don't understand the gtk color pickup yet :(
[01:10] <raul_> can you explain please?
[01:10] <raul_> about the gtk*
[01:10] <ochosi> k, it's not that difficult:
[01:11] <raul_> I'm a novice in themes
[01:11] <ochosi> you create an xpm-version of each button, then you edit the xpm-file (that you created e.g. in gimp) with a text-editor and edit the line that contains the main bg-color
[01:12] <ochosi> you can read about how to do that step here: http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/xfwm4_theme
[01:12] <raul_> xpm can be edited in a text-editor? o_O
[01:12] <ochosi> yes
[01:12] <raul_> I didn't know that
[01:12] <ochosi> xpm is kinda oldschool, but very cool
[01:12] <raul_> interesting
[01:12] <ochosi> so that's the first part
[01:12] <raul_> but why I have to do this with the theme?
[01:12] <raul_> is something like rgb colours etc?
[01:13] <ochosi> obviously you can take almost any color from the gtk-theme and then your xfwm theme will "pick up" the color you selected from the gtk-theme you're using at the moment
[01:13] <ochosi> meaning: it will change when you switch themes
[01:13] <ochosi> chameleon-style
[01:14] <raul_> so I have to make png files too, right?
[01:14] <raul_> but xfwm doesn't use them :|
[01:15] <ochosi> yes, because with xpm there's a problem: no antialiasing and no transparency
[01:15] <raul_> example: the rounded corners window, doesn't have a anti-aliasing
[01:15] <ochosi> you mean the edges?
[01:15] <ochosi> yeah, the edges aren't 100% smooth
[01:16] <ochosi> but that's mostly a rendering issue of xwfm's compositor, there's nothing you can do about that (as a themer)
[01:16] <raul_> so I have to edit only the parts that contain active_hilight_2, active_color_2 etc?
[01:16] <ochosi> you can only adjust the rounded corners to either dark or light background
[01:17] <ochosi> well...
[01:17] <ochosi> you can start with that
[01:17] <raul_> or everything?
[01:17] <raul_> omg :P
[01:17] <ochosi> but e.g. for the gradient in the title, you have to do something else
[01:17] <ochosi> there you have to create an xpm that is flat (only a single color)
[01:18] <ochosi> then you create a transparent gradient in gimp and save that as png
[01:18] <ochosi> that'll serve as overlay to create the actual gradient
[01:18] <ochosi> and since the png overlays the xpm you'll then get a gradient on your window that can change background color
[01:18] <raul_> But if I leave my theme as it is, it will happen some bug in xfwm-compositor?
[01:18] <ochosi> it works like with layers in gimp
[01:18] <ochosi> no
[01:19] <ochosi> you can also leave your theme as is
[01:19] <ochosi> but then it won't adjust to color changes
[01:19] <ochosi> (auto-adjust)
[01:19] <raul_> ahh! now I understand it :P
[01:19] <raul_> finally
[01:19] <raul_> like elementary xfwm theme?
[01:19] <knome> heh :)
[01:19] <ochosi> just an example, try greybird's xfwm theme with a dark gtktheme
[01:19] <raul_> I notice that it changed to black when I apply a theme here
[01:19] <ochosi> yeah, actually i did that theme ;)
[01:20] <raul_> :D
[01:20] <ochosi> but anyhoo, yeah, also like elementary's xfwm
[01:20] <ochosi> k, since that's clear now i'll leave you :)
[01:20] <raul_> I will study the xpm in this weekend, because I don't have so much time available :(
[01:20] <ochosi> have fun and good night everyone!
[01:21] <knome> night simon!
[01:21] <knome> have a nice holiday
[01:21] <raul_> good night and thanks!
[01:21] <ochosi> raul_: yeah, no rush with anything, i won't be back till next week ;)
[01:21] <ochosi> knome: thanks, see ya!
[01:21] <knome> ochosi, tue?
[01:21] <ochosi> yup
[01:21] <knome> okay, see you then!
[01:21] <raul_> ok, thanks again!
[01:21] <knome> raul_, you're welcome :)
[01:21]  * ochosi waves
[01:22] <knome> \o/
[01:22] <knome>  |
[01:22] <knome> /'\
[01:22] <knome> bye
[01:22]  * ochosi loves knome's ascii art
[01:22] <knome> hihi
[01:22] <knome> me too
[01:22] <ochosi> and i'm off...
[01:22] <raul_> :P
[01:24] <raul_> I will leave too
[01:24] <raul_> goodbye and thanks :)
[01:24] <knome> raul_, bye, and see you too
[01:25] <raul_> hey! I have a question about IRC
[01:25] <knome> sure
[01:25] <raul_> I didn't understand the ISP e-mail address in my profile
[01:25] <knome> right
[01:25] <raul_> I never used the irc before, today is my first day on it
[01:26] <raul_> I'm a bit paranoic with security
[01:26] <knome> the username (before @) is what your username in the machine is, and the part after @ is your address
[01:26] <knome> if you want to hide that, you probably want a cloak
[01:26] <raul_> hmm, but why I'm the only who have my username as my machine?
[01:27] <raul_> oh, well
[01:27] <knome> huh?
[01:27] <knome> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks <- on cloacks
[01:27] <knome> -c
[01:27] <raul_> hm thanks!
[01:27] <knome> in most irc clients, you can set the username to whatever you want
[01:28] <knome> (the part before @)
[01:28] <raul_> but this don't have any problem?
[01:28] <knome> yeah, many people irc with no cloaks and username as is
[01:29] <knome> but if you want, you can get the cloak to hide your host address
[01:30] <raul_> i'm back
[01:30] <raul_> sorry, my HD is broken so xchat froze
[01:30] <knome> a-ha
[01:31] <knome> now your ip shows
[01:31] <raul_> omg DD:
[01:31] <raul_> I'm so paranoic
[01:31] <knome> that's actually something you can't control, without that cloak
[01:31] <raul_> how can I hide this? I didn't understand yet
[01:31] <knome> read the question in http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[01:31] <raul_> so I will not come back anymore
[01:32] <raul_> well, good bye D:
[02:57] <charlie-tca> Kubuntu is dropping gtk3 off their cd's tomorrow
[03:32] <Unit193> That's a little too much for scroll back, anyone mind my lazyness and give me the jist of the raul part? :P  (Wanting to give a xfwm theme)
[08:34] <mr_pouit> the current feedback for the panel layout is "meh". It seems they didn't even look at the layout in natty
[09:52] <knome> maybe somebody should send a screenshot of the default natty panels in the ML then
[12:57] <mr_pouit> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/652408/ (diff of the manifest file between alpha2 and today) so pinyin is probably the culprit
[14:28] <micahg> mr_pouit: is there a way for me to do that or do you just have local copies?
[14:44] <mr_pouit> of the manifest? I took them from cdimages.ubuntu.com
[15:18] <madnick> I've looked deep into Plymouth, its all very smooth and neat, I am formulating a message for the ML about the theme, I will need to talk to the artists about what features they require, what they want animated etc
[15:18] <madnick> Here is what it looks like when you use the current bg, i think it looks pretty neat, http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/plymouth.png
[15:18] <madnick> ochosi was the artist right?
[15:23] <charlie-tca> yes, ochosi is the artist, but is on holiday for the next week
[15:23] <charlie-tca> I like that screenshot
[15:25] <madnick> oh okay
[15:26] <madnick> I found this on the mailingl ist
[15:26] <madnick> http://lehrer.schule.at/goell-pregesbauer//wp-content/xubuntu_logo_suggestion_3.gif
[15:26] <madnick> Anyone know who made that?
[15:29] <charlie-tca> I don't know, and with knowing, we can't use it
[15:30] <charlie-tca> Maybe knome or ochosi will know
[15:30] <madnick> yup :)
[15:30] <charlie-tca> The problem is, that is an old logo
[15:30] <madnick> oh okay
[15:30] <charlie-tca> We no longer use that one
[15:31] <charlie-tca> Here are the new ones - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork
[15:37] <madnick> I'm not sure what to put in the email :(
[15:37] <micahg> mr_pouit: ah, right, alpha2 is there as well as the daily :)
[15:42] <charlie-tca> madnick: something along the lines of:
[15:43] <charlie-tca> I am designing a new plymouth screen for Xubuntu. Here is what I have so far, what else should be in this?
[15:46] <madnick> okay, well, if the artist wishes, he could really get free hands and ill just code, otherwise i need to know a few things; should a new background be used instead of xubuntu-greybird? The progressbar, do we want something fancier? FSCK leaves us alot of oppertunities for cool stuff
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Those are questions to ask, in the email, then.
[15:46] <madnick> yes
[15:46] <madnick> :)
[15:47] <charlie-tca> Then you get to say what *you* want the artist to animate, too.
[15:48] <charlie-tca> point to keep in mind, if we put in a background, it may stay there for a very long time.
[15:48] <madnick> :)
[15:48] <madnick> yeah
[17:46] <pleia2> charlie-tca: thank you! :)
[17:47] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:18] <GridCube> good evening
[20:19] <GridCube> remember yesterday storm i was telling you about? well it broke lots of electricity lines and i wont be having power there for like 3 days
[20:23] <charlie-tca> ouch
[20:23] <charlie-tca> That's a pretty bad storm
[20:28] <charlie-tca> everybody okay?
[20:28] <GridCube> indeed, and it was just like 15 minutes or so
[20:29] <GridCube> yep luckly, accordign to the news only one people died at all
[20:30] <GridCube> besides that a lot of broken powerlines, thats why they cant restore it quickly, because they fear that some loose cable will cause an accident somewhere
[20:35] <charlie-tca> I see. They just want to make sure they find all the breaks, then.
[20:38] <GridCube> yep
[20:38] <GridCube> i just bought a batery radio XD
[20:41] <astraljava> Holy crap! GridCube, where was this?  That's... nasty.
[20:44] <Unit193> TheSheep: Nice! :D
[20:54] <knome> madnick, the plymouth theme looks nice! we're planning to create a new wallpaper for oneiric, but i suppose changing the BG image isn't too hard (and it's going to be blue too, so it's fine to test this way)
[20:54] <knome> madnick, imo we could have a really thin progressbar, that would have the same kind of glowing style than the logo does
[20:55] <Unit193> I didn't even know you could have a progress bar with this one (I know they had it in the working usplash ones)
[20:55] <knome> madnick, one possibility is to use the animation used in the uplash earlier, with the "sparks"
[20:56] <madnick> :)
[20:56] <TheSheep> remember the 'running mouse' xfce logo animation? :)
[20:56] <madnick> Thanks
[20:56] <knome> madnick, do you need any files for the animation now?
[20:56] <madnick> Not yet
[20:57] <knome> madnick, or, what kind of file is it supposed to be? png with frames on top of each other maybe?
[20:57] <knome> madnick, did you get my idea of the progressbar?
[20:57] <madnick> Im reading it now :P I just jumped into IRC :P
[20:57] <knome> okey, np
[20:57] <knome> (me too)
[20:57] <GridCube> i always liked this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=karmic-sparkles-01.ogv
[20:58] <madnick> knome: yeah i think i get it
[20:58] <knome> okey
[20:58] <knome> GridCube, that's the other possibility :)
[20:58] <madnick> GridCube: that also works
[20:59] <knome> but i think we should go with the bar
[20:59] <madnick> that may be a "cleaner" approch
[20:59] <knome> yeah, and it doesn't shout "hey, we're just reusing all old stuff here"
[20:59] <madnick> :P
[21:00] <TheSheep> what's wrong about reusing?
[21:00] <madnick> But we could also do alot of things with fsck
[21:00] <TheSheep> btw, you could possibly adapt some android startup screens
[21:00] <knome> TheSheep, many people might think the project is staleish
[21:01] <GridCube> and this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/AllImages?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screenshot_1.png
[21:01] <knome> madnick, do you have any ideas?
[21:01] <GridCube> XD I know, we move on, but the past is awesome too
[21:01] <knome> GridCube, uh, that's the old logo
[21:01] <TheSheep> knome: the word is "stable" :D
[21:01] <charlie-tca> Many also think the project is doing fantastic, though
[21:01] <madnick> Well, i had one idea, but its not as clean as yours
[21:01] <GridCube> knome: butstillawesome
[21:01] <knome> TheSheep, no, there is also "stale" :)
[21:02] <knome> GridCube, heh, if you say so ;)
[21:02] <madnick> regarding the fsck i dont really know
[21:02] <knome> charlie-tca, sure, but we don't want to make people think we might be staleish with our artwork, do we? :)
[21:02] <TheSheep> I'm not sure doing a graphics overhaul every release counts as "alive"
[21:02] <charlie-tca> I haven't seen anyone indicating that
[21:02] <TheSheep> we have to go DEEPER
[21:02] <knome> TheSheep, practically it doesn't mean that, but that's how people/users interpret things, sadly
[21:03] <TheSheep> knome: pics or didn't happen
[21:03] <charlie-tca> since we have new artwork almost every release, I would like to know where those people are that are saying it is "stale"
[21:03] <knome> TheSheep, ;)
[21:03] <knome> charlie-tca, i was referring to the hypothetical situation that we reused the old usplash animation
[21:04] <charlie-tca> Then it is not reality. There is no "stale", and anything we do to plymouth will be new.
[21:05] <knome> charlie-tca, exactly, that's what i tried to say. i told we might not want to use the old animation, so that the people wouldn't think the project it stale
[21:06] <GridCube> but the mouse running on the wheel is so cute XD
[21:06] <charlie-tca> As to new wallpaper, if there is one in the works, it needs to be ready before beta2
[21:06] <charlie-tca> or better, before beta is released
[21:07] <knome> charlie-tca, beta2 is when, and when is the ui freeze?
[21:08] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[21:08] <charlie-tca> 25th of August?
[21:08] <knome> the ideal situation would be to get it ready before the ui freeze, yeah
[21:10] <knome> madnick, would the fsck bring in an another progressbar?
[21:11] <madnick> Its hidden atm
[21:11] <knome> mm-hmm
[21:11] <knome> what about text, how much?
[21:11] <madnick> It does bring in text too
[21:12] <madnick> But I was planning on rewriting most
[21:12] <knome> how much of it?
[21:12] <knome> ah, okay!
[21:12] <knome> good
[21:12] <knome> so we can control that
[21:12] <knome> nice
[21:12] <madnick> yes we can do whatever is desired :)
[21:12] <knome> btw, where did you grab the logo with glow, or did you do it yourself?
[21:13] <madnick> Nope thats default
[21:13] <knome> right
[21:13] <madnick> Then opacity changes
[21:13] <knome> mm
[21:13] <knome> i wonder where my source files are
[21:13] <knome> ;)
[21:13] <madnick> /lib/plymouth/themes/foo/bar.script
[21:13] <madnick> :]
[21:14] <knome> no, i mean for the glowing logo
[21:14] <madnick> oh!
[21:14] <knome> ah, here it is
[21:15] <madnick> are you going to change it?
[21:15] <knome> no, not really
[21:15] <knome> just working on a mockup
[21:15] <madnick> ok
[21:16] <madnick> knome: in your mind, how long did you see the progressmeter?
[21:16] <madnick> Im thinking not very long
[21:17] <knome> maybe a bit less wide than the logo
[21:17] <madnick> ah yes same
[21:17] <knome> that's actually one of the things i'm looking to now
[21:17] <knome> :)
[21:17] <madnick> :D
[21:27] <knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/draft1.png
[21:27] <knome> bbl
[21:28] <madnick> that looks sweet :)
[21:30] <madnick> ill implement that, and try to get some screencap
[21:43] <madnick> (im not sure how to make that nice fade effect of the white part)
[21:45] <knome> mm
[21:45] <madnick> i couldnt steal it all because
[21:45] <madnick> It was "double faded" or similar :P
[21:48] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/draft2.png
[21:48] <knome> something like that for the fsck?
[21:49] <knome> (the "normal" progress bar could go back and forth, but the fsck bar could just fill up from left to right)
[21:50] <GridCube> oh nice
[21:50] <madnick> okay
[21:50] <madnick> yes
[21:50] <madnick> i can show you what i made just now
[21:50] <madnick> its not as nice as that
[21:50] <charlie-tca> at least need something that says the fsck is being done. Right now, it is a blank screen
[21:51] <GridCube> i wonder, what about complementary colors?
[21:51] <GridCube> like an yellow/orange glowing progress bar?
[21:52] <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/foo.ogg
[21:53] <madnick> the progressbar is too wide in my example i guess
[21:54] <madnick> also i guess i need to fix that quick reset
[21:54] <knome> don't know, looks okay
[21:54] <pleia2> madnick: not sure this has been mentioned, but I don't really care for the mac-like controls on the example you posted to the list, my brain is small, I find them confusing :)
[21:54] <pleia2> and animations--
[21:54] <madnick> pleia2: its an xubuntu theme :P
[21:55] <knome> pleia2, why animations--?
[21:55] <madnick> Aqualemon
[21:55] <knome> pleia2, or, animations-- in what context?
[21:55] <pleia2> yeah, there are a few that copy aqua, I don't like them
[21:55] <pleia2> knome: I don't want bouncy things, that's why I use xubuntu rather than kubuntu :)
[21:56] <pleia2> animations are distracting
[21:56] <knome> pleia2, in normal GUI you mean, not the plymouth theme? :)
[21:56] <knome> (i think in some places, constant visual feedback is nice)
[21:57] <pleia2> ah I see, the email was strictly about plymouth (I don't live animations anywhere, but it's more tolerable there)
[21:57] <knome> madnick, GridCube: maybe the text messages in plymouth could be on bottom of the screen
[21:57] <pleia2> sorry :)
[21:57] <knome> live ;)
[21:57] <madnick> Sure
[21:58] <knome> pleia2, if you are copying files, do you want an animated progressbar on the progress, or just get no visual feedback at all? :P
[21:58] <pleia2> knome: progressbars just lie anyway :)
[21:58] <madnick> Its only because how people expect them to work :P
[21:58] <knome> yeah, but isn't it nice to have *some* visual feedback on what is happening
[21:58] <pleia2> yeah, you're right
[21:59] <knome> (or if something is happening at all)
[21:59] <pleia2> knome: how's the wordpress theme doing? canonical sysadmins have been super responsive lately, it's weird
[21:59] <knome> i definitely don't like the kde-style playground world either where everything is spinning around
[21:59] <knome> pleia2, payback time, let them taste their own medicine
[21:59] <knome> ;)
[22:00] <pleia2> haha
[22:00] <micahg> pleia2: congrats on becoming a Xubuntu Team member
[22:00] <pleia2> micahg: thank you :)
[22:00] <charlie-tca> If we really expect them to cooperate with us, we should get things rolling sooner.
[22:01] <knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/draft3.png
[22:01] <madnick> yes, very nice!
[22:01] <knome> charlie-tca, of course.
[22:01] <madnick> But do we need the second status bar then?
[22:01] <madnick> progress*
[22:01] <knome> madnick, if we want, the text could be the same blue than the second bar
[22:02] <knome> well, that's visualizing a totally different process than the normal one
[22:02] <knome> if you have four 4TB drives, you probably want to know what the progress is
[22:02] <madnick> true, but couldnt we put the progressbar down there?
[22:03] <knome> i don't think it would look cool
[22:03] <madnick> like just above the text
[22:03] <madnick> oh okay
[22:03] <madnick> well, ill set it up :)
[22:03] <knome> the text is kind of just an additional nice gesture, so you don't have to wonder what's happening when the boot is taking so long
[22:03] <knome> if it's possible, we might even have a slight delay for the text
[22:03] <madnick> ok
[22:04] <knome> if stuff takes <5-10 seconds, don't show the text at all?
[22:04] <knome> i don't know
[22:04] <madnick> yes its doable
[22:04] <knome> i'd like to keep the elements at minimum
[22:04] <knome> that's why i want the text to be not at center
[22:05] <madnick> I wont be able to have an example tonight, and tomorrow im gone for half the day, but in the evening i might have something you can look at
[22:05] <knome> and this way, it doesn't matter much even if the text was a bit longer
[22:05] <knome> okay
[22:05] <knome> no hurry :)
[22:05] <madnick> ok :)
[22:05] <GridCube> sorry knome http://imagebin.org/165030
[22:05] <GridCube> XD
[22:05] <knome> thanks for the work :)
[22:05] <knome> GridCube, awwwh :)
[22:06] <knome> no, i don't think that really "does" it
[22:06] <knome> pleia2, you'll love that mockup by GridCube for sure!
[22:08] <GridCube> all the same color is boring
[22:08] <pleia2> blue <3
[22:08] <pleia2> orange </3
[22:08] <knome> orange is the new apple!
[22:08] <GridCube> XD
[22:08]  * pleia2 hugs GridCube
[22:09] <GridCube> its complementary colors
[22:09] <GridCube> XD the only thing about art i know
[22:09] <knome> all the same color looks more professional, by far
[22:09] <knome> it's hard to get color combinations to work well
[22:09] <knome> at least if they are complimentary colors
[22:10] <GridCube> well the yellow one does look good
[22:10] <knome> looks like somebody spilled some pee in the progress bar
[22:10]  * knome hides
[22:10] <GridCube> XD
[22:11] <madnick> its my flag basically :<
[22:11] <GridCube> :P I just bucketed yellow over your thing XD
[22:12] <knome> madnick, i'm sorry for you (not for the flag, but the country)
[22:12] <knome> ;)
[22:12] <madnick> :D
[22:13] <knome> come visit helsinki
[22:13] <knome> :)
[22:13] <madnick> I sometimes go on Finland cruise
[22:14] <astraljava> knome: I don't think we have anything to boast, really, seeing as our flag inventors weren't sure whether we're christians or satanists. :D
[22:14] <knome> you live near/in stockholm, or somewhere else?
[22:14] <knome> astraljava, but isn't it the same with the swedish flag as well, except they peed on theirs?
[22:14] <madnick> I spend alot of time in Kiruna, but I have my more permanent home 200 km from stockholm :)
[22:14] <astraljava> Ahh, okay, then it's not any different for madnick. :)
[22:15] <knome> wow, that is a far away ;)
[22:15] <astraljava> Not so sure it's pee. Maybe they're just too pissed it resembles their skin colour better.
[22:15] <astraljava> Oh wait, I might be thinking France now.
[22:15] <madnick> its quite far :)
[22:16] <astraljava> This is #xubuntu-offtopic, right? ;D
[22:16] <knome> you might be actually as far away from Sysi than me
[22:16] <knome> astraljava, this is #xubuntu-devel(-offtopic)
[22:16] <knome> aka #the-xubuntu-chillout-lounge
[22:16]  * astraljava ^5's knome
[22:18] <knome> astraljava, so which was your city again? :P
[22:24] <astraljava> Currently, Oulu.
[22:24] <knome> charlie-tca, https://launchpad.net/~irc-xubuntu-ops/+members#active - is this up-to-date?
[22:24] <astraljava> Don't expect that to last for too long, though.
[22:24] <knome> astraljava, so there's really nothing else to do in oulu than open source? :)
[22:25] <astraljava> knome: I see you've visited, sometime?
[22:25] <knome> oulu, no :|
[22:25] <astraljava> How did you know, then? :D
[22:25] <knome> heh, magic
[22:26] <knome> well, just look at the percentage of people from oulu amongst the finnish ubuntu contributors?
[22:26] <astraljava> Well, granted. I love Jyväskylä. But so far, it feels much, much superior.
[22:26] <astraljava> Really?
[22:26] <knome> i don't know
[22:26] <astraljava> Is that number somewhere public?
[22:26] <knome> you, Sysi, jussi01...
[22:27] <knome> that's three already!!
[22:27] <astraljava> Who's Sysi?
[22:27] <knome> WOOOT
[22:27] <astraljava> Yeah, coolness.
[22:27] <astraljava> We're in the same company with jussi. :D
[22:27] <knome> Sysi is somebody who occasionally hangs out here too, but at least in #xubuntu
[22:27] <knome> you are? haha
[22:27] <astraljava> Ahh... o kay.
[22:27] <knome> a young guy who is not so sure if he likes xfce or kde :D
[22:28] <astraljava> Hahaha!
[22:28] <astraljava> Youngsters.
[22:28]  * astraljava rolls eyes
[22:28] <knome> he's been giving some valuable feedback at #shimmer about xubuntu stuff
[22:28] <knome> ;)
[22:28] <astraljava> Oh okay, that's cool.
[22:28] <knome> i've even met jussi!
[22:28] <astraljava> I'm sorry. :(
[22:28] <knome> lol
[22:29] <astraljava> ;)
[22:29] <knome> he is a funny guy with the most hilarious laughter i've ever heard
[22:29] <astraljava> That's true,
[22:29] <astraljava> you can't escape it, no matter where in the office you hide
[22:29] <knome> OMG :D
[22:29] <pleia2> and jussi will be a father soon ;)
[22:29] <astraljava> ...or if you have the headphones on, and volume turned real up.
[22:30] <knome> but i have to say, jussi also thought i was *WEIRD*, so i think we're even, and you can tell jussi you're sorry too ;)
[22:30] <astraljava> pleia2: That's the part that truly scares me. :D
[22:30] <pleia2> astraljava: me too, I told him so :)
[22:30] <knome> haha
[22:30] <knome> at least he'd get a guy who is on the same level to play with him
[22:30] <knome> ERRR
[22:30] <astraljava> And to think, his wife is awesome! :D
[22:31] <knome> haven't met HER :(
[22:31] <pleia2> I haven't either
[22:31] <knome> astraljava, is she.. formally qualified?
[22:31] <astraljava> knome: They're not even in the same universe. :D
[22:31] <knome> pleia2, i haven't met you either! :)
[22:31] <GridCube> formally qualified?! XD
[22:31] <knome> astraljava, that was not a surprise
[22:32] <knome> astraljava, but how the heck did jussi manage to pull that move off then??
[22:32] <astraljava> I have no idea. :D
[22:32] <knome> astraljava, or are you saying his wife is worse?! omg...
[22:32]  * astraljava wipes away the tears
[22:32] <knome> even thinking about that makes my brain melt
[22:32] <astraljava> knome: HAHAHAH!!!
[22:33] <knome> GridCube, mm-hmm, you know... the form of an object... ;)
[22:33] <astraljava> Nah, seriously, awesome people, both of them. I've spent nights there, when I was just relocating etc.
[22:33] <astraljava> Really cool folks to hang out with.
[22:33] <knome> yeah, i believe you
[22:34] <knome> jussi really felt like he had a big warm heart, even if he was a bit weird
[22:34] <astraljava> And Jussi's like more finnish than I am.
[22:34] <knome> ;)
[22:34] <knome> so are you more australian than he is then, at least?
[22:34] <astraljava> knome: You have it spot on.
[22:34] <astraljava> In a sense.
[22:34] <knome> heh
[22:34] <astraljava> I like the heat better than he does. :D
[22:34] <knome> :D
[22:34] <pleia2> he made the sauna in budapest almost-die hot
[22:34] <knome> haha
[22:34] <astraljava> Well yeah, apart from the sauna.
[22:35] <knome> hehe
[22:35] <knome> astraljava, so where are you going/trying to relocate?
[22:35] <astraljava> But see, that's the finnish thing.
[22:35] <astraljava> I just moved from Jyväskylä.
[22:35] <knome> true. i'm not a very "durable" sauna person either
[22:36] <knome> astraljava, but you said you're not going to be in oulu for long? back to jyväskylä then?
[22:36] <astraljava> knome: I have no idea. We have an "office" in Dallas. Might go there. :)
[22:36] <knome> woot :D
[22:36] <pleia2> wow, that's quite a change
[22:36] <astraljava> Oh, that's just a fantasy.
[22:37] <pleia2> ah :)
[22:37] <knome> isn't it "just a mystery"
[22:37] <astraljava> From what I know, it's the closet of the sales guy we have there. :)
[22:37] <knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DrJI7mTHQ
[22:37] <astraljava> It'd still beat the winters here. :)
[22:38] <knome> hopefully not the water closet
[22:38] <knome> that'd beat YOU
[22:38] <astraljava> Haha!
[22:38] <astraljava> Both to that and the video.
[22:39] <knome> the song is amazing, i know.
[22:39] <astraljava> I had no idea those two made a show together!
[22:40] <knome> lots of shows, actually
[22:40] <knome> or at least, been together in lots of shows
[22:41] <astraljava> Well, yeah, but didn't know of that particular show.
[22:41] <astraljava> Thanks for linking to that!
[22:41] <knome> mmh
[22:41] <knome> no problem
[22:41] <knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHNXMgBSei0
[22:44] <astraljava> *facepalm*
[22:46] <astraljava> I simply must have these on DVD.  Always thought as much.
[22:53] <knome> he's a regular at QI, so lots of fun with that couple too in that series
[22:55] <knome> i love how the show is so relaxed, no real rush to get all the things/questions in the show really, they'll sometimes take long long sidetracks
[22:56] <astraljava> Yeah. They don't do such shows anymore, do they? I mean, the showbiz?
[22:56] <knome> i think QI might still be on
[22:57] <astraljava> All the best ones have been done, by the british, decades ago.
[22:57] <astraljava> Really?!
[22:57] <astraljava> w00T!
[22:57] <knome> yeah, watched it from BBC when i was visiting london in february
[22:57] <knome> might have been replays too though, but i have a feeling that the show might still be on
[22:57] <astraljava> That's really nice of them.
[22:58] <knome> "QI are recording the I series in May and June 2011, which will transmit on BBC2 in the autumn."
[22:58] <knome> I series as in the ninth series
[22:59] <knome> too bad there is only DVD's from the first three series
[22:59] <knome> otherwise i might be hooked in buying them all!
[23:01] <astraljava> Goddamn. We must get on a frenzy of writing demanding letters to the BBC.  I will never forgive you for introducing me to this show. Neither will Jussi, I believe, tomorrow at the office. :)
[23:09] <knome> hehe
[23:10] <knome> tell jussi he owes me one beer more if he likes the show
[23:11] <astraljava> Oh I will do so.
[23:12] <astraljava> He promised me beer too, if I helped painting his house.
[23:12] <knome> hehe
[23:12] <knome> sometime, come both to helsinki
[23:12] <astraljava> I will then commence drinking the beer he owes you, and forget to pay it back (to you) when we meet.
[23:12] <knome> haha
[23:17] <astraljava> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfjvRR41How&feature=relmfu
[23:18] <knome> haha
[23:19] <knome> i can imagine jussi giggling while looking at that clip
[23:19] <astraljava> Indeed.
[23:19] <knome> did you know there is the full episodes also?
[23:19] <knome> just start with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLb9Pv7EM2M
[23:19] <knome> (nice theme music as well!)
[23:22] <astraljava> Curse you to hell!
[23:22] <knome> har har
[23:23] <astraljava> I'm already unproductive with the clips, thankyouverymuch!
[23:23] <knome> hehe
[23:23] <knome> now you're going to have things to do at work tomorrow at least!
[23:24] <knome> and jussi too!
[23:25] <knome> gosh, i'm hungry
[23:25] <knome> shouldn't have watched the gordon ramsay clips
[23:26] <astraljava> Hehehe. :)
[23:41] <knome> going to grab something
[23:49] <knome> hhm, gordon ramsay -quality tuna straight from the can
[23:49] <knome> ;)
[23:54] <astraljava> Oh, that's the best. :)


[00:01] <thumper> fwereade_: around?
[00:02] <fwereade_> thumper, yeah, kinda
[00:02] <thumper> fwereade_: got time for a 5 min chat?
[00:02] <thumper> fwereade_: got a few quick questions
[00:02] <fwereade_> thumper, sure, would you start it please?
[00:02] <thumper> yep
[00:03] <thumper> fwereade_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/096d99c30b8876a0dec1471a202468258e010074?authuser=0&hl=en
[00:13] <fwereade_> thumper, hmm: type StringSet map[string]bool
[00:13] <fwereade_> thumper, then you can just return StringSet{}
[00:13] <thumper> that doesn't give enough type hiding IMO
[00:13] <thumper> it exposes the map functions that I don't want there
[00:14] <fwereade_> thumper, fair enough
[00:14] <fwereade_> thumper, just a thought :)
[00:14] <thumper> thanks
[00:16]  * thumper afk
[00:59] <mramm> davecheney: just got back
[03:13] <bigjools> trying to keep up with core changes in the maas branch is hard - what do we need  to fix errors about missing MongoURL on machine config?
[03:43] <jtv> Hi there — anyone else getting this test failure for a nonexistent function, environs.Setenv()?
[03:44] <jtv> environs/tools_test.go:344: undefined: environs.Setenv
[03:46] <thumper> I know what that is...
[03:46] <thumper> but I don't get that error
[03:46] <thumper> Setenv is "exported" in export_test.go (I think)
[03:49] <bigjools> thumper: I get it too FWIW
[03:49] <thumper> hmm... I haven't tested with latest trunk
[03:49] <thumper> just yesterday :)
[03:50] <thumper> environs/export_test.go
[03:50] <thumper> var Setenv = setenv
[03:51] <jtv> Yes, the theory works.  Having some trouble with the practice.
[03:52]  * thumper had tests pass
[03:52]  * thumper pulls latest
[03:52] <thumper> and retries
[03:53] <thumper> ok, it passes for me on raring with tip of trunk
[03:53] <thumper> jtv: are you sure you are using tip? and have no changes?
[03:54] <jtv> I'm not sure of anything, really.  I'll see if I can run it in another configuration.
[03:55] <jtv> No change so far...
[03:55] <jtv> Ah!  Got it.
[03:55] <jtv> It passes when I run "go test launchpad.net/juju-core/environs"
[03:56] <jtv> —not when I run "go test ./environs"
[03:56] <jtv> So it must be the softlinking again.
[03:58] <bigjools> !
[03:59] <jtv> One test failure because of that difference in all of environs nicely hits the bitter spot: not enough to make you think there's a systemic problem with the way you're running the tests, enough to make you stop and look for problems in the actual code.
[03:59] <bigjools> jtv: what do you mean by softlinking?
[04:00] <jtv> My $GOPATH/src/launchpad.net/juju-core is softlinked to a branch.
[04:09] <davecheney> jtv: that'll screw you every time
[04:09] <jtv> Yes, especially with the feature branch now.  Can't really afford to colocate such different worlds.
[04:18] <bigjools> jtv: it's not that then, I don't do that
[04:19] <bigjools> jtv: I am using native colo, works very well
[04:38] <arosales> davecheney, let me know if you still hit the 20 compute limit on hp cloud
[04:38] <davecheney> arosales: just saw your mail
[04:38] <davecheney> will try again
[04:38] <arosales> davecheney, the 200 limit bump should apply to the juju-scale-test project
[04:39] <arosales> but as I learned things can be different than expected :-)
[04:39] <davecheney> third times' a charm
[04:40] <thumper> davecheney: []string(nil) is a nil slice? whereas []string{} is an empty slice?
[04:40] <davecheney> yes
[04:40] <thumper> hmm...
[04:42] <thumper> ok, my tests pass now
[04:42] <thumper> if you take params(values... string)
[04:42] <thumper> and don't pass anything in
[04:42] <thumper> you get a nil slice, not an empty slice
[04:43] <davecheney> yes
[04:43] <davecheney> normally this doesn't matter
[04:43] <davecheney> but gocheck cares
[04:44] <arosales> davecheney, :-)
[04:46] <davecheney> m_3: ping
[05:21]  * thumper proposes the hacking for the day
[05:22]  * davecheney listens
[05:22] <davecheney> thumper: i'll LGTM your proposal if yuou rename trivial to utils
[05:22] <davecheney> or util
[05:22] <davecheney> even
[05:23] <thumper> I didn't really want to do that until we agreed on a name :-|
[05:23] <thumper> but I do want to rename trivial
[05:23] <davecheney> that's my deal, take it or leave it
[05:23] <thumper> or kill it and move the content
[05:24] <thumper> :)
[05:24] <thumper> I can wait
[05:24] <davecheney> i'll also accept that
[05:24] <thumper> I'll propose another branch first thing monday to move / change the trivial package to util(s)
[05:25] <thumper> davecheney: I wanted a set to deal with the bootstrap fake series
[05:25] <thumper> which is now the top of the pipeline
[05:25] <davecheney> what is the CL again ?
[05:25] <thumper> CL?
[05:26] <thumper> for what?
[05:26] <thumper> it seems you can't add a prereq for something already proposed
[05:26] <davecheney> thumper: nope
[05:26] <thumper> oh well, friday calls, and warsaw's second law says time to stop :)
[05:27] <davecheney> fucking prereqs
[05:27] <thumper> davecheney: have a good weekend
[05:28] <davecheney> you too mate
[06:04] <rogpeppe> davecheney: hiya
[06:05] <rogpeppe> davecheney: i don't want to rename trivial to utils. we deliberately decided against utils as a name.
[06:06] <davecheney> i understand
[06:06] <davecheney> i still side with tim
[06:06] <davecheney> the only thing worse than having a utils package, is having two of them
[06:30] <rogpeppe> davecheney: i'm ok with a utils *directory*
[06:31] <rogpeppe> davecheney: which is what he's actually done
[06:31] <rogpeppe> davecheney: so utils/trivial, utils/cloudinit, etc
[06:31] <davecheney> that is gold plating it
[06:31] <rogpeppe> davecheney: i don't think so
[06:32] <rogpeppe> davecheney: the problem with a "utils" package is it becomes a huge grab-bag of random stuff
[06:32] <rogpeppe> davecheney: but that's not a problem if each thing is in its own package, and we just use the "utils" name to keep the root name space uncluttered
[06:33] <rogpeppe> davecheney: (see my recent comments on https://codereview.appspot.com/8672044/)
[06:33] <davecheney> rogpeppe: i feel that encourages not one utils package, but a forrest of them
[06:34] <rogpeppe> davecheney: i think that's ok - each package can be small and simple and targetted to what it needs to do. i suggest reserving the name for leaf dependencies which could be as well implemented outside juju-core.
[06:34] <rogpeppe> davecheney: so nothing that imports juju-core/log, for example
[06:35] <davecheney> sure
[06:35] <davecheney> we can have different opinions here
[06:58] <rogpeppe> davecheney: ping
[07:07] <m_3> davecheney: pong
[07:07] <rogpeppe> m_3: are you around for a very brief chat?
[07:08] <rogpeppe> m_3: i want to knock up a minimal version of the juju-wait tool and want to make sure i'm doing the right thing first
[07:08] <m_3> rogpeppe: really can't atm... about to board a plane
[07:08] <rogpeppe> m_3: :-) ok!
[07:09] <m_3> yikes... lemme see
[07:09] <rogpeppe> m_3: short story: juju-wait (machine|unit)
[07:09] <rogpeppe> m_3: waits for machine or unit to come into a stable state
[07:09] <m_3> yeah, sorry man... that's just too ambitious atm... I'm trying to see if we're past our account limit on hp in the few minutes before the flight
[07:09] <rogpeppe> m_3: exits with non-zero if it ended in an error state
[07:10] <rogpeppe> m_3: okeydokey
[07:10] <m_3> stable is one of "started, start-error, install-error" or the equiv?
[07:10] <rogpeppe> m_3: yup
[07:11] <rogpeppe> m_3: brings you to a state where you can query status and find out what's actually gone on.
[07:11] <m_3> rogpeppe: and then it'd be nice to actually get the error state easily from there
[07:11] <m_3> rogpeppe: ack right
[07:12] <rogpeppe> m_3: ok, i'll print the error state
[07:12] <rogpeppe> m_3: or perhaps i'll always print the final state
[07:12] <m_3> we can filter status to get the state of the thing we're waiting on, but filters would be cool again at some point
[07:12] <m_3> it'd be great to also get the final state
[07:13] <m_3> but shell exit codes are important
[07:13] <rogpeppe> m_3: agreed. i'm wanting this to take less than an hour though :-)
[07:13] <m_3> haha
[07:13] <m_3> nice
[07:13] <m_3> ok, yeah, and we can totally refine over time
[07:13] <m_3> just being able to wait for a set of states to be reached
[07:13] <m_3> that'll rock
[07:13] <rogpeppe> m_3: juju-wait machine [state....] ?
[07:14] <rogpeppe> m_3: waits for any of the given states to be reached?
[07:14] <m_3> by service instead?
[07:14] <rogpeppe> m_3: ah...
[07:14] <rogpeppe> m_3: that's more interesting. wait for *all* units in the service to reach the given state?
[07:15] <m_3> juju wait mysql "started | start-error"
[07:15] <m_3> or perhaps just a unit
[07:15] <rogpeppe> m_3: just a unit has more obvious semantics
[07:15] <m_3> that's all that's needed right now... `juju wait mysql/0 --state=...`
[07:16] <m_3> something along those lines
[07:17] <rogpeppe> m_3: juju wait mysql/0 'started|.*error' ?
[07:17] <rogpeppe> m_3: i.e. a regexp for the acceptable stages
[07:17] <rogpeppe> states
[07:17] <m_3> davecheney: I started 30 instances from<EMAIL_ADDRESS>might not have connectivity to wait them out and shut them down... please check on it in an hour or so if you can
[07:18] <m_3> davecheney: shut em down either way... then you can play if the numbers are up
[07:18] <m_3> rogpeppe: dude, that syntax would rock
[07:18] <rogpeppe> m_3: cool. that's also more trivial to do.
[07:18] <m_3> rogpeppe: that'd be great... probably all we'd need
[07:19] <rogpeppe> m_3: wonderful, just what i want hear
[07:19] <rogpeppe> m_3: just units for the time being, no machines or other things?
[07:19] <m_3> rogpeppe: right
[07:19] <rogpeppe> m_3: great
[07:19] <rogpeppe> m_3: thanks - that's very helpful!
[07:20] <m_3> rogpeppe: prob not worth the time to work up any other logical expressions of state ( ! & | )
[07:20] <m_3> rogpeppe: regexps'll be awesome
[07:20] <rogpeppe> m_3: juju wait -v mysql/0 '.*error'
[07:20] <rogpeppe> m_3: wait for anything *but* the given regexp
[07:20] <rogpeppe> m_3: analagous to grep -v
[07:21] <m_3> yup... but really we can add tha tlater
[07:21] <rogpeppe> m_3: ok, cool
[07:21] <m_3> rogpeppe: thanks!
[07:42] <davecheney> m_3: hey
[07:42] <davecheney> i was going to ask you about building that mongodb package
[07:42] <davecheney> but I figured it out from your instruciotns
[08:23] <dimitern> rogpeppe, fwereade_: looking for a critical eye on the log deuglifying CL - now with JUJU: and prefixes removed - https://codereview.appspot.com/8674043/
[08:23] <rogpeppe> dimitern: looking
[08:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: reviewed
[08:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cheers
[08:29] <fwereade_> dimitern, please drop all the JUJU: crap
[08:29] <fwereade_> dimitern, not just JUJU
[08:29] <dimitern> fwereade_: I did, didn't I?
[08:29] <fwereade_> dimitern, ERROR jujutest blah command failed: BAM!
[08:29] <fwereade_> dimitern, ERROR command failed: BAM!
[08:30] <dimitern> fwereade_: so rogpeppe is suggesting to drop the "command" from there, do you agree?
[08:30] <dimitern> fwereade_: but leave the command name
[08:30] <fwereade_> dimitern, not necessarily -- IMO that's out of scope
[08:31] <fwereade_> dimitern, no, drop the command name too please
[08:31] <fwereade_> dimitern, none of the JUJU:... stuff needs to exist
[08:31] <dimitern> rogpeppe: agreed?
[08:31] <fwereade_> dimitern, rogpeppe: "command failed: %v" is a useful final thing to note, right?
[08:32] <dimitern> fwereade_: well, which command was that?
[08:32] <fwereade_> dimitern, the one you just ran
[08:32] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i suppose so, although the command will print that anyway, i suppose. hmm, but maybe not to the log file
[08:32] <fwereade_> dimitern, I am not interested in catering to goldfishes ;p
[08:32] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: it was just the redundancy of "jujutest foo" and "command"
[08:33] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: FWIW i think that the final message printed by a failing juju command *should* be prefixed by the name of the command
[08:33] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: but not necessarily the log message
[08:33] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, and honestly I am not *very* interested in logging the CLI stuff -- I'd hope we'd have an Infof in supercommand, maybe, saying what we're running, and leave it at that
[08:34] <dimitern> ok, I'll drop both the "command" and the command name from the log message
[08:34] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, doesn't sound unreasonable
[08:34] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: yeah. the logging stuff is interesting from a CLI p.o.v. because it's what gets printed for --verbose/debug
[08:34] <fwereade_> dimitern, please just stick to the task as given ;p
[08:34] <rogpeppe> dimitern: if you drop the command name, you can leave "command"
[08:34] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, yeh, I see the job of log in a CLI context as feedback not logging IYSWIM
[08:35] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, dimitern: messing with "command failed" is out of scope
[08:35] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, dimitern: we discussed this on the lists and crafted it carefully so as not to piss away too much time
[08:35] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: +1
[08:36] <dimitern> fwereade_, rogpeppe: so finally, leave just "ERROR command failed: xyz" instead of "ERROR jujutest blah command failed: xyz" ?
[08:36] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yup
[08:42] <dimitern> ok, submitting with that change then
[08:48] <dimitern> fwereade_: I need a crash course talk for the constraints implementation for openstack :)
[08:52]  * TheMue happily discovered that the endpoints in relation keys are sorted, so the tests are not only "green by accident".
[08:58] <dimitern> rogpeppe: what happened yesterday with the SetProvisioned() issue? you said you found the problem, but didn't share
[08:58] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i was running into the incompatible tools issue
[08:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i was using an older client with uploaded tools
[08:59] <dimitern> rogpeppe: so your setup was flawed, not the code?
[08:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so it was creating the Machine in mongo without the new fields
[08:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: so the assertion failed
[08:59] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yes, but...
[08:59] <dimitern> rogpeppe: right! I was beginning to get concerned
[09:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it was good because it made me aware of a new and quite subtle potential compatibility issue to watch out for
[09:00] <dimitern> rogpeppe: incompatible schema? it's not new i think
[09:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: have you seen this bug, BTW? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1168154
[09:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's *how* it's incompatible that's interesting
[09:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i had assumed that we could add fields without necessarily being incompatible
[09:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ah, right :)
[09:02] <rogpeppe> dimitern: and that can be true, but not if we assume that they start life as set.
[09:03] <dimitern> rogpeppe: this opens a potentially vast can of worms in the code, where we need to care about fields not being there, when they should be, all kinds of failing asserts..
[09:03] <dimitern> rogpeppe: and i suppose that was the reason for the log file being so huge after 2h?
[09:03] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i think it's only a problem when we're asserting that something is an empty string
[09:04] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah, the provisioner was constantly falling over and being restarted
[09:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: how about asserting on non-empty field, which isn't there?
[09:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i don't think that's a problem
[09:05] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cool
[09:05] <rogpeppe> dimitern: the assertion will fail as it did in our example yesterday
[09:06] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but it's essentially the same failure as if the field was there, but with a different value
[09:07] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yes, which is fine. if we assert that field=="value" then we don't care about the difference between field=="" and field==nil.
[09:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: you might've missed my comment: have you seen this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1168154
[09:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: it's a bit concerning, but may be trivial to fix
[09:15] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, responded, I'm not certain there's a juju problem there so much as a charm problem
[09:17] <dimitern> fwereade_: and how about a quick chat about openstack constraints?
[09:17] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah, interesting. what charm hooks need to run before the unit can be destroyed?
[09:18] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, broadly speaking, once it starts it expects to pass through install, config-changed, start before top and suicide
[09:18] <fwereade_> s/top/stop/
[09:18] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah, i'd forgotten there was a stop hook
[09:19] <fwereade_> dimitern, sure
[09:19] <fwereade_> dimitern, would you start a hangout please?
[09:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: yeah, i think that if install or start fail, we should allow unit removal without resolving the error.
[09:21] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i wonder if actually we should allow the stop hook to run regardless.
[09:21] <dimitern> fwereade_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/143d8b05982bc269466e8bb2402d68e8d0018523?authuser=0&hl=en
[09:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: the reason for the charm failing is that it tried to do "apt-get install -y --force-yes python-shell-toolbox" which failed (error: Unable to locate package python-shell-toolbox)
[09:57] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, sorry, could have sworn I sent a reply
[09:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: a reply to the bug? you did.
[09:58] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, that hook failure sounds like a charm problem rather than a juju problem
[09:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: yup
[09:58] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, ok, so I'm not too bothered there
[09:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: but i think it should be possible to destroy a failed unit
[09:58] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, unless we're deploying it on the wrong series or something and killing it that way?
[09:59] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: because calling "resolved" on it might lead to worse problems
[09:59] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, like what?
[10:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: like subsequent hooks fail or behave badly because the previous hook has failed but been "resolved" without any actual resolution
[10:00] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, then if you must you can painstakingly `resolved` your way through it to destruction
[10:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: also, if i call destroy on a unit that's in an error state, i think it's reasonable to assume that i want to kill it, not let it carry on.
[10:01] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: yeah, i think that's wrong - lots of work for no gain.
[10:01] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, STRONGLY disagree
[10:01] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, you might want to kill it but you still have to resolve it and walk it through an orderly shutdown
[10:01] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, fancy features for skipping that need careful thought
[10:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: this is particularly true for install/start hook failures
[10:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i don't mind too much about later failures
[10:03] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, so long as there's a clear boundary I'm ok extending the window
[10:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: if a charm has failed to install, i want to be able to blow it away, and i can't see any particular reason why we shouldn't allow that
[10:03] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, but not now
[10:03] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, there is a path to resolution
[10:03] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, it may suck but it exists
[10:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: fair enough
[10:05]  * fwereade_ bbiab
[10:05] <rvba> fwereade_: we've fixed most of the problems you pointed out… we're landing the MAAS provider feature branch right now.
[10:05] <jtv> All the important ones are fixed.
[10:12] <jtv> fwereade_: feature branch has landed...  see the MP for another note, on your comment #2 — if it's weird, it's EC2's kind of weirdness so I don't think it needs changing right now.
[10:23]  * dimitern bbiab
[10:28]  * TheMue loves merging conflicts *gnarf*
[11:04] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, ping
[11:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: pong
[11:04] <fwereade_>             assertNothingHappens(c, upgraderDone)
[11:04] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, in jujud/upgrader_test.go
[11:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'm just fixing that exact code
[11:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: it's crack
[11:04] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, fucking tell me about it
[11:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: it's nearly done
[11:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: it was from before i knew that interlinked table-driven tests were an anti-pattern
[11:05] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I am a little surprised that you are doing it given that I said I would, though
[11:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i said i'd fix the upgrader tests
[11:07] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I said, not sure if you saw: I am a little surprised that you are doing it given that I said I would, though
[11:07] <rogpeppe> [12:05:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i said i'd fix the upgrader tests
[11:07] <rogpeppe> fwereade: to be compatible with both old and new dev-versions
[11:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and you said "yes please" AFAIR
[11:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: 'cos i knew they'd be a hassle
[11:08] <fwereade> rogpeppe, as I recall you said they needed to be fixed, and I said I knew, and that they fit well with what I was currently doing
[11:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: oh, crossed wires, sorry
[11:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: how far down the road are you?
[11:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i've unfucked the tests in principle; i just need to get them to pass now.
[11:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I have spent about 12 hours straight unfucking upgrades
[11:09] <fwereade> rogpeppe, and I have a green build
[11:09] <rogpeppe> fwereade: oh, ok, cool./
[11:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i've only spent the last 2.
[11:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, and I am on a sanity pass through
[11:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: assertNothingHappens could never be triggered
[11:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: because the channel never gets sent to
[11:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i think it probably did in an earlier incarnation which changed.
[11:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, however I did just spot that that can't possibly work, yeah
[11:11] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i changed it to: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5701129/
[11:11] <fwereade> *yoink*
[11:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: good word :-)
[11:21] <dimitern> mramm: ping
[11:23] <TheMue> *hmpf* test fails after merge, but sure it will be easy
[11:40] <TheMue> Bingo
[11:50] <TheMue> fwereade: could you pls take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/8705043. it's still wip, i will add more test scenarios (multiple relations, peer relations), but i would like a feedback about the current approach by you
[11:50] <fwereade> TheMue, will do shortly
[11:50]  * TheMue just has been called for lunch, bbiab
[11:50] <TheMue> fwereade: great, thx
[12:49] <dimitern> the trunk is now broken
[12:49] <dimitern> environs/maas/environ.go:7:2: import "launchpad.net/gomaasapi": cannot find package
[12:50] <TheMue> dimitern: did you go get it?
[12:50] <rvba> dimitern: we just merged the MAAS provider.  You need to get the lib gomaasapi.
[12:50] <dimitern> TheMue: I tried go get launchpad.net/gomaasapi/...
[12:51] <dimitern> and it reported: # launchpad.net/gomaasapi/example
[12:51] <dimitern> ../gomaasapi/example/live_example.go:45: not enough arguments in call to gomaasapi.NewAuthenticatedClient
[12:51] <dimitern> go get launchpad.net/gomaasapi (w/o /... works) though
[12:51] <TheMue> dimitern: ouch, so gomaasapi is broken and the trunk fails as a result of this
[12:52] <rvba> dimitern: let me look into it…
[12:52] <dimitern> rvba: now running go build ./... && go test ./... in juju-core/
[12:53] <dimitern> rvba: but the same fails inside gomaasapi with the error above
[12:54] <rvba> dimitern: I'm on it.  We updated something in gomaasapi but forgot to update the 'live_example.go' file.
[12:54] <dimitern> rvba: cheers
[12:55] <dimitern> rvba: always run "go build ./... && go test ./..." successfully before submitting please
[12:55] <dimitern> rvba: juju-core tests pass
[12:55] <rogpeppe> lunch
[12:55] <rvba> dimitern: we did got the tests to pass before merging.
[12:56] <dimitern> rvba: I mean in the dependencies as well, like gomaasapi
[12:57] <dimitern> so juju-core trunk is not broken after all, sorry
[12:59] <mramm> dimitern: pong
[13:00] <dimitern> mramm: sorry, I wanted to ask about the swap days after US flights
[13:00] <mramm> sure
[13:00] <dimitern> mramm: but I figured I can ask in oakland :)
[13:00] <mramm> cool
[13:01] <dimitern> mramm: anyway, I updated the calendar with my holiday leave in june (10-25) and for europython in july (1-5), filed swap days, etc. in cadmin
[13:02] <mramm> dimitern: great -- I saw the calendar updates
[13:02] <mramm> but will login to cadmin and approve stuff
[13:03] <dimitern> mramm: cheers, actually probably jam needs to approve these still, but anyway
[13:04] <mramm>  right!
[13:15] <TheMue> mramm: btw, during oakland we have a national holiday. i'll take it together with the swap days and two of my holidays of last year in the week after oakland.
[13:17] <mramm> sure
[13:20] <rvba> dimitern: the fix has landed.  I'll also land a fix to make sure that kind of breakage does not happen again (i.e. to make sure that the content of examples/ [which is not tested by the unit tests] compiles).
[13:21] <dimitern> rvba: that's good, but now I see another error:
[13:21] <dimitern> # launchpad.net/gomaasapi/templates
[13:21] <dimitern> templates/source_test.go:11: undefined: GomaasapiTestSuite
[13:21] <rvba> dimitern: that's fixed in my next branch :)
[13:21] <dimitern> rvba: ah, cool
[13:23] <TheMue> dimitern: hehe, that's real wip
[13:41] <rvba> dimitern: all fixed now.
[13:42] <dimitern> rvba: indeed, thanks!
[14:01] <dimitern> i still can't find the kanban g+ link :(
[14:02] <dimitern> mramm: can you send it please? I'll add it to my calendar manuallt
[14:02] <dimitern> ah! found it! sorry
[14:02] <mramm> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/539f4239bf2fd8f454b789d64cd7307166bc9083
[14:41] <fwereade> TheMue, I'm not to sure about https://codereview.appspot.com/8705043/
[14:41] <fwereade> TheMue, where did you get that data format from?
[14:44] <fwereade> rogpeppe, dimitern: the upgrade-juju stuff is here: https://codereview.appspot.com/8663045/
[14:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade: woo!
[14:45] <TheMue> fwereade: by daves code and my interpretation of the py code
[14:45] <TheMue> fwereade: i have to step out for i thin 1h. will ping you then again.
[14:46]  * fwereade now has to dust off the provision-time changes and see how badly they rotted in the last day
[14:46] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and in return, juju-wait: https://codereview.appspot.com/8710043
[14:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ^
[14:46] <dimitern> fwereade: will take a look a bit later
[14:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: and at yours too
[14:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ta!
[14:47]  * dimitern needs to think a bit, so going for a short run - bbi30m
[15:15] <jtv> Would anyone be interested in having a makefile?  There are a few advantages that come from convenience...  Suggestion is at https://codereview.appspot.com/8711043
[15:29] <rogpeppe> jtv: +0; i don't think i'd ever use it.
[15:29] <rogpeppe> jtv: but i wouldn't mind it being around
[16:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade: any chance of a review of https://codereview.appspot.com/8710043/ ?
[16:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm a fair way into your upgrade-juju review, BTW
[16:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i'm on it now
[16:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: cool, thanks
[16:41] <dimitern> rogpeppe: reviewed
[16:41] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ta!
[16:53] <dimitern> fwereade: your internet connection sure is flaky today
[17:05] <rogpeppe> fwereade: you've got a first round of review comments
[17:08] <rogpeppe> fwereade: hmm, what's our rationale for not letting agent version change in config again?
[17:18] <fwereade> rogpeppe, it's just a way to mess up the upgrade process afaict
[17:18] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah, of course.
[17:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, having no way except the approved one to change it feels like a win to me
[17:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: might be good to add a comment there
[17:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: +1
[17:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, definitely
[17:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i *knew* there was a good reason!
[17:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, sorry, btw, I need to stop for a while, I don't think I'll manage to finish it today
[17:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ok
[17:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, if I do it'll be late
[17:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: sure
[17:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i need to stop soon too
[17:20]  * fwereade strikes out in search of pizza
[17:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: hopefully i'll get to the end of your review
[17:20]  * rogpeppe quite fancies pizza
[17:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: have a great weekend!
[17:30] <dimitern> fwereade: reviewed as well
[17:31] <dimitern> i have to stop
[17:31] <dimitern> happy weekends everyone!
[17:48] <rogpeppe> m_3: ping
[17:48] <rogpeppe> m_3: if you're around at some point, please could you take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/8710043/ and see if it looks like something you could use
[17:51] <rogpeppe> right, that's me done
[17:51] <rogpeppe> g'night all and happy weekends too
[19:29] <m_3> [6~[6~/win 2
[19:31] <TheRealMue> <7nick TheMue


[00:45] <polaris> Why can't I compile KI18n? Here is the log file https://paste.kde.org/pyvuipo6u. How am I supposed to install libintl? Thank you
[05:45] <goddard> how do you mount am img file with dolphin?
[05:55] <hateball> goddard: there appears to be a "mount iso" service you can add, but I have not tested it myself
[05:56] <hateball> goddard: in dolphin, settings, services, download new, search for mount
[09:27] <yossarianuk> hi - when its been built will Plasma 5.6 be at the usual place -> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[09:27] <yossarianuk> (for 16.04)
[09:33] <soee> yossarianuk: some time soon probably :)
[09:37] <yossarianuk> soee: whats going to the be the difference between kubuntu backports and project neon - it is just that the backports PPA doesn't have updated QT ?
[09:40] <soee> yossarianuk: when it comes to 16.04 - yes, more or less
[10:21] <dsealius> hello, I have installed nvidia-361 it seems to work ... but now I haven't any visualization when I make a alt+tab and I can't display the virtual desktop grid when pressing ctrl+F8... in addition my screen is like a litle bit more blured now
[10:21] <dsealius> someone have a fix for that ?
[10:47] <dsealius> someone has installed nvidia-361 drivers ?
[10:49] <soee> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/11/Screenshot_20160511_124833.png
[10:51] <hateball> dsealius: are you sure that the driver is actually in use?
[10:52] <hateball> dsealius: if you run "lspci -k" does it show the nvidia module for your card+
[11:02] <dsealius> yes
[11:02] <dsealius> Kernel driver in use: nvidia
[11:02] <dsealius>         Kernel modules: nvidiafb, nouveau, nvidia_361
[11:04] <dsealius> in addition there are two gpu monitoring led on my laptop, a blue one when intel integrated is in use and  red one when it is the nvidia driver
[11:04] <dsealius> at this moment the red led only is active
[11:13] <dsealius> soee, how did you install 364.19 ?
[11:13] <soee> dsealius: add graphics-drivers ppa
[11:13] <soee> https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[11:13] <soee> and then install it: sudo apt install nvidia-364
[11:14] <soee> 1: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa
[11:14] <soee> 2: sudo apt update
[11:14] <soee> 3: udo apt install nvidia-364
[11:14] <soee> *sudo
[11:14] <dsealius> got it
[11:15] <dsealius> can you display the virtual desktoip grid ?
[11:15] <soee> i do  not use virtual desktops
[11:15] <soee> i use activities :)
[11:15] <soee> but i can test for you
[11:16] <soee> how do you activate desktops grid ?
[11:16] <dsealius> thank ! press ctrl+F8
[11:16] <dsealius> you should be able to add or remove vdesktop from that pane
[11:19] <soee> yes it adss them fine :)
[11:19] <soee> 6 virtual desktops added and they work
[11:20] <dsealius> ok thank you, I'll try your the 364 driver
[11:20] <soee> ok :)
[11:21] <Guest91236> Ctrl+F8 works for me too and i have 361.42
[11:22] <dsealius> thx for your comment Guest91236
[11:23] <Guest91236> make sure you've got 2 virtual desktops
[11:23] <Guest91236> by default there's only one
[11:23] <soee> Guest91236: i think his problem was with some effects
[11:23] <dsealius> yes I know
[11:24] <Guest91236> okay, you'd better install the drivers with 'sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall'
[11:49] <tytan> Hello everyone, I have troubles installing Kubuntu as a multi boot ption on my system. I have Windows 7 installed on a M.2 drive and I have a spare 120GB S-ATA SSD which I want to install Kubuntu 16.04 on. Kubuntu doesn't see the M.2 drive :/
[11:50] <Smurphy> It should...
[11:51] <Smurphy> I am waiting for my old 120GB SSD and will put it into my old 2007 mac-mini 2,1. then will run KUbuntu 16.04 on it :D
[11:51] <Smurphy> Should do itl
[11:52] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:59] <tytan> It doesn't matter what I try it doesn't see M.2 drives on my ASUS Z97-P
[12:09] <Smurphy> tytan: Is it an external drive ? If not - check in the BIOS/UEFI if it is enabled.
[12:34] <tytan> Smurphy: It is an internal drive on which I run Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit already :P
[13:03] <BluesKaj> tytan:  does your windows OS boot ok?
[13:05] <hateball> tytan: any difference if you try adding "nvme_load=YES" to grub bootline?
[13:11]  * BluesKaj withdraws his question after scrolling up to see the original one
[13:16] <viewer|33569> when I boot my kubuntu vm in hyper-v, it goes straight to try/live mode, there's no screen like in the manual, where I can choose install
[13:20] <viewer|33569> how do I actually install it?
[13:22] <viewer|33569> hello? anyone?
[13:23] <viewer|33569> it said on kubuntu.org I could come here for support
[13:25] <soee> viewer|33569: you have icon on the desktop to run installer
[13:25] <soee> there is a bug that makes this icon almost fully hidden in forlder view widget
[13:26] <viewer|33569> wow
[13:26] <viewer|33569> what a great product
[13:26] <soee> so click and hold mouse button pressed on this widget and you should see its controls that allow you to resize it
[13:27] <viewer|33569> haha, it won't boot to the splash where you can select install or try, and when you get in the live mode the install icon is not visible
[13:27] <viewer|33569> this seems promising....
[13:28] <viewer|33569> also, when i double click that icon
[13:28] <viewer|33569> there's a new dialog that has the title "dolphin sorry"
[13:28] <tytan> hateball: I haven't tried that yet.  I set 1st monitor to be main display and desktop shows on 2nd monitor......
[13:53] <hateball> Detroit_Bad_Boy: kscreen with multiple monitors in 16.04 is... not great
[13:54] <hateball> it's worked as expected 3 boots for me now, must be some sort of record
[13:54] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> I've been finding that to be true through docs I've read
[13:54] <acheron88> think multiple monitor support is meant to be better in plasma 5.6.x?
[13:54] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> I'm running plasma
[13:54] <acheron88> which should hopefully be backported in not too distant future
[13:55] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> I'm using an Nvidia card. Support seems to be scant with that type of card
[13:55] <acheron88> plasma 5.5.5 in xenial has a lot of annoyances
[13:56] <hateball> Detroit_Bad_Boy: fwiw I am using Intel here at work and it's not-great
[13:57] <acheron88> Nvidia is no better or worse than any other here, but I'm not doing multi-monitor
[13:59] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> I used multi-monitors for remote support. Don't know why I still have them set up that way
[14:00] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> I know my cats like the warmth from them...
[14:01] <user|57783> hey
[14:01] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> Ah well, I'll muddle through
[14:01] <Detroit_Bad_Boy> Ciao tutti!
[14:03] <user|57783> how can I update Kubuntu from version 14.04 to 16.04 ?
[14:03] <user|57783> the fastest and easiest way !
[14:04] <soee> user|57783: run: sudo do-repease-upgrade
[14:04] <soee> *do-release-upgrade
[14:05] <user|57783> ok
[14:05] <hateball> !ltsupgrade
[14:08] <user|57783> But I have written that I have version 14 and already I can see that it is version 16 kubuntu so I do not understand :(
[14:10] <hateball> user|57783: If you are using 14.04 now, do-release-upgrade wont offer 16.04 until 16.04.1, july 21st
[14:10] <user|57783> and why only on July 21 ?
[14:10] <tytan> for stability reasons
[14:10] <user|57783> ok
[14:10] <hateball> user|57783: so the worst bugs in 16.04 have been fixed
[14:10] <hateball> user|57783: you can however force things, using do-release-upgrade -d, but I am not sure if that triggers 16.10 now
[14:11] <hateball> If you are no extreme hurry, I would wait. There are a number of bugs in 16.04 :p
[14:11] <user|57783> ok thanks!
[14:11] <tytan> I did that on a notebook running Ubuntu 14.04.4 and it upgraded to Ubuntu 16.04
[14:11] <hateball> tytan: Recently?
[14:11] <tytan> three days after it was released
[14:12] <tytan> I'd recomment waiting too even though I didn't run in any truble
[14:12] <yossarianuk>  user|57783: you can upgrade now however ->   http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/how-to-upgrade-ubuntu-14-04-to-ubuntu-16-04-lts
[14:13] <yossarianuk>  user|57783: actually heed hateballs: 's warning
[14:13] <user|57783> I have Kubuntu BUT NOT ubuntu up !
[14:14] <yossarianuk> user|57783: its the exact same process
[14:14] <user|57783> okkk
[14:14] <yossarianuk> user|57783: its the same distro just with a different desktop.
[14:14] <user|57783> :D Thanks
[14:14] <edinaldo> ola
[14:14] <tytan> yossarianuk: basicly debian with more recent software then, too? =P
[14:15] <edinaldo> alguem do brasil ai?
[14:15] <tytan> I don't understand you
[14:15]  * tytan speaks german and english
[14:15] <yossarianuk> tytan: thats whats its forked from.
[14:15] <edinaldo> portuguese?
[14:16] <yossarianuk> I think its Portuguese  ?
[14:16] <edinaldo> alguem ai fala portugues?
[14:16] <tytan> ...
[14:18] <edinaldo> hello to all
[14:22] <tytan> Damn. Didn't know there are still people on the internet who can't speak basic english :/
[14:22] <yossarianuk> Queen's English Please ......
[14:23] <tytan> Where are you from, yossarianuk?
[14:24] <yossarianuk>  England (ps only joking about the Queen - i'd happily have a republic.)
[14:24] <adept> Hi. Can please someone help me with building zanshin 0.4 on Kubuntu 16.04? I've got - Unknown CMake command "ecm_install_icons". And nothing interesting and simple enough in google. Thanks in advance
[14:25] <yossarianuk> I hope to god we're still in the EU by the end of the year.....
[14:25] <acheron88> adept: ECM = extra-cmake-modules I think?
[14:25] <adept> Looks like ecm_install_icons is something from KDE frameworks or something similar. Maybe I miss some package
[14:26] <acheron88> so maybe 'sudo apt-get install extra-cmake-modules'
[14:26] <tytan> yossarianuk: Since London is incredibly important as a trading platform to the united states for the european union I guess the european union will do almost everything to keep great britan in it's marked
[14:28] <adept> acheron88: Thanks! I'll try it
[14:29] <acheron88> seems like it may be the right package - http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?mode=filename&suite=xenial&section=all&arch=any&keywords=ECMInstallIcons.cmake&searchon=contents
[14:29] <soee> adept: sorry i do not know how to hel[
[14:29] <soee> adept: maybe try asking on #ubuntu
[14:29] <tytan> Ok, I need to depart now.  The fact that all our allies want us to stay should say something - only Putin, French Nazis and Donald Trump want us to leave.
[14:31] <yossarianuk> (off topic I know..)
[14:31] <tytan> well said :'D
[14:31] <tytan> And it would make scotch more expensive for me ...
[14:33] <acheron88> yossarianuk: +1 on that
[14:34] <adept> acheron88: I have extra-cmake-modules  and cmake-extras packages installed but it didn't help :(
[14:38] <acheron88> adept: 2 secs
[14:42] <acheron88> hmm. tried a cmake/configure and can't replicate the error ATM
[14:52] <judy> I lost my ethernet connection after I updated 14.04. Can someone help me get it back?
[14:55] <acheron88> adept: configured and built here OK, so not sure wjhere your error is from
[15:04] <adept> acheron88: thanks for help! maybe for some reason cmake can't find ecm (problem with path, for example)
[15:16] <plasma_5_6> hello - do we know when plasma 5.6 will be included in kubuntu PACKPORTS
[15:16] <goddard> anyone know why i can't delete mail in kmail and how to set HTML messages as the default?
[15:19] <goddard> plasma_5_6: good question and i dont know where the answer is
[15:27] <plasma_5_6> hello - do we know when plasma 5.6 will be included in kubuntu PACKPORTS?
[15:35] <acheron88> prob a week or 2 -> a month I think?
[15:54] <plasma_5_6> hello - do we know when plasma 5.6 will be included in kubuntu PACKPORTS?
[16:01] <hangman13us> hey guys. Has anyone used TorBrowser? I may do something wrong as I cannot access any of the known "onion" pages.
[16:02] <acheron88> plasma_5_6: it's being worked on and tested. so within the months I would hope.
[16:04] <yossarianuk> hangman13us: i'd suggest asking in the tor room
[16:04] <yossarianuk> if you have any iptable natting rules that could prevent it working maybe.
[16:05] <yossarianuk> (you are better off using tails btw)
[16:05] <hangman13us> do you have the name of the room?
[16:06] <hangman13us> Or maybe better if I ask on Tor Forums. Will check there. thanks ;)
[16:06] <yossarianuk> nope - i'd google it.
[16:15] <murthy> BluesKaj: are you there?
[16:16] <BluesKaj> murthy:  I am now ;-)
[16:17] <murthy> BluesKaj: pm?
[16:18] <BluesKaj> best to ask here, murthy then those who may have the answer can help if I don't
[16:18] <BluesKaj> or can't rather
[16:18] <murthy> BluesKaj: not here for help, need to know some thing else
[16:19] <BluesKaj> murthy: ok pm
[16:38] <_ebola_> Ubuntu 16.04 Kde, audio streams in firefox (youtube) default to 85% volume in Plasma Audio Volume Settings, any way to make them default at 100% volume?
[16:41] <BluesKaj> ebaker_:  it won't make much difference at 85%, just turn your speakers up a bit more
[16:41] <BluesKaj> _ebola_: ^
[16:43] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: well it does make a difference, especially in keeping volume even across virtual machines
[16:43] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: thats why I'm looking for a way to default to 100%
[16:46] <BluesKaj> well , my experience with audio is that when a signal is at 85%  of full volume it's  as loud as it is at 100% , but I don't know how to fix your problem
[16:47] <BluesKaj> if it is a problem at all
[16:50] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: it's definitely not as loud, I am moving it between 85% and 100% - a big difference
[16:52] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: the idea inside a virtual machine is to be able to set volume to 100% permanently, to pass the audio stream to the host undisturbed and in full fidelity
[16:52] <BluesKaj> ebaker_:  set it at 100% in alsamixer then  hit escape and do alsactl store
[16:53] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: in this case KDE takes the liberty to default to clipping 15% off of the audio stream volume, which isnt right, the user has to have control over it
[16:53] <BluesKaj> _ebola_: ^ ...gawd i hate nicks that start with underscore
[16:53] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: my apologies for the nick:) I'll try alsamixer thanks
[16:53] <BluesKaj> try the command i gave you
[16:59] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: alsamixer master is at 100% but there is no per-app channel thats at 85% in plasma volume control
[17:22] <ejay> Amarok is taking 500MB of RAM in latest Kubuntu. Is that normal?
[17:31] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: I tried your suggestion, but alsamixer master is at 100% and there is no per-app channel inside alsamixer thats at 85% like in the plasma volume control
[17:32] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: seems like plasma volume has it's own per-app audio channels outside of alsamixer
[17:38] <BluesKaj> _ebola_:  iit's most likely pulseaudio vol ctrl/pavucontrol that causing the problem
[18:19] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: you were right, it's a pulseaudio issue not KDE related. Thanks
[18:43] <stalag17> selam
[18:54] <user|22545> Hello I am looking to get commercial support for Unubntu or Kubuntu
[18:55] <_ebola_> BluesKaj: fixed it in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
[19:06] <BluesKaj> _ebola_:  ok good to hear :-)
[19:08] <user|22545> BluesKaj: What needs to be done to legally use Kubuntu in a business environment
[19:12] <BluesKaj> !enterprise
[19:12] <mlc> Dear all, I've got an issue with my Kubuntu 16.04 plugged in HDMI to my TV. When i power off TV pc turn to sleep mode. I don't want this behaviour. GPU is intel HD 4000. CEC is inactive, power management don't change anything and i can't find solutions trough google. Can you provide any help?
[19:14] <BluesKaj> user|22545:  it's open source , as long as you don't charge anyone for the OS or to install it , it's perfectly fine afaik
[19:14] <BluesKaj> BBL
[19:15] <user|22545> But is a company want to sell the OS on a system rather then windows
[19:16] <user|22545> but you wouldnt be buying the OS "Kubuntu" in this case
[19:17] <marco-parillo> user|22545: The GPL (which is not a permissive license) allows you to sell the OS, but you have to make the source available, so in reality that limits how much you can realistically charge for the software. Now Canonical may seek to assert other restrictions, but that is a swamp I prefer to avoid.
[19:17] <marco-parillo> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.en.html
[19:18] <user|22545> Dont want o sell OS just want to setup a maintenance contract to support the clients
[19:19] <VW123> hi guys, I installed kubuntu desktop 16.04 recently from scratch and all worked fine, then later after some package updates (last week?) my kde panel suddenly shows only task manager widget, all other widgets are gone (like app launcher, clock, pager, notifications, ...). I was wondering whether this might be a known issue?
[19:20] <VW123> PS: when I edit the widgets via panel options, they are still all marked with the small number 1 as being in used on some panel already and I cannot readd them
[19:25] <marco-parillo> user|22545: I am not a lawyer, but there should not be any GPL licensing problems with that. If you use the Canonical trademarks in your offering / advertising, Canonical may try to prevent that.
[19:40] <skierpage> Hi. Since upgrading to 16.04 my Kubuntu desktop blanks out for 2 seconds about every few minutes. It seems to only happen when running Firefox (which I do all the time).
[19:41] <skierpage> I don't see any errors in journald or in Xorg.0.log.
[19:41] <soee> maybe some GPU issue
[19:42] <skierpage> soee: yes, my suspicion too. I have an old ATI
[19:42] <skierpage> FWIW Windows Vista and same Firefox run fine, but I don't like booting into Windows
[19:42] <soee> oh i never hand any ATI product :)
[19:45] <skierpage> The RADEON(0) driver detects an r300 card. I guess I'll ask on Ubuntu forums about ATI graphics support
[19:48] <skierpage> Another issue: closed windows in the Plasma panel display terribly! They have weird gray shading over them, as if Plasma is drawing gray borders of a bigger window on top of each other. https://imgur.com/hCJi9cP  Is this what closed windows look like in other Plasmas?
[19:49] <skierpage> I've upgraded Kubuntu since 9.04 (!!), so maybe I've got some old display settings hanging around
[19:57] <skierpage> System Settings > Look and Feel says I'm using Breeze with no customizations
[20:10] <skierpage> I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-workspace/+bug/1580767
[20:20] <viewer|12901> After turning my screen off and back on I get no sound over DisplayPort. It's still shown as "plugged in" in pavc
[20:43] <winsen1> hi all can you please tell me how to reach ubuntu on freenode server..or?
[20:47] <Javabean> type "/join #ubuntu" winsen1
[20:49] <winsen1> javabean: thanks
[20:49] <Javabean> welcome
[20:49] <winsen1> it doesn't work
[20:50] <winsen1> thanks anyway
[20:50] <Javabean> it doesn't work? i copy pasted what i typed to you and it joins right in
[20:54] <winsen1> javabean: yes but nobody there
[20:56] <Javabean> winsen1... that is not good,   #ubuntu is full of people for me, right now...... unless somehow the " got added when you tried, try again /join #ubuntu
[21:22] <[Relic]> What info/docs am I looking for?  I want to use 14.04 and 16.04 on the same drive, but I need to redo the partitioning info.  I am wondering if I can "snapshot" the 14.04 main/home directories to back them up redo the drive partitions then put 14.04 back on and install 16.04.
[21:25] <viewer|29207> hi, i installed kubuntu 16.04 not long ago and my cpu is stuck at 800Mhz, how to enable cpu scaling?
[21:25] <viewer|29207> it worked with out problems on 14.04
[21:45] <ryuonosuke> Hola alguien espa;ol
[21:45] <ryuonosuke> espanol
[23:46] <Oderus> hi. what is the best way to manually report a bug without technical information?
[23:47] <Oderus> when i boot my machine, if theres a DVD in the drive, my PC will reboot itself during the plymouth screen
[23:50] <soee> !bug
[23:51] <soee> or manually on bugs.kde.org if it is upstream bug, or on https://bugs.launchpad.net
[23:57] <Oderus> soee: thank you