[05:54] <mborzecki> morning
[06:13] <mardy> 'morning mborzecki
[06:30] <zyga-mbp> good morning
[06:32] <mborzecki> mardy: zyga-mbp: hey
[06:41] <mardy> zyga-mbp: hi!
[07:02] <pstolowski> morning
[07:02] <zyga-mbp> hej pstolowski
[07:33] <mardy> hi pstolowski
[07:35] <pstolowski> hey mardy
[07:35] <pstolowski> good morning mvo !
[07:36] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[07:41] <zyga-mbp> good morning mvo
[07:41] <zyga-mbp> long time no see
[07:42] <mvo> zyga-mbp: hey, indeed! nice to see you
[07:42]  * zyga-mbp I was busy on my windows system lately, doing some fun and exciting stuff :)
[07:43] <zyga-mbp> it's about deploying Raspberry Pi 4 as a LAVA dispatcher for testing zephyr boards
[07:43]  * zyga-mbp did his first cloud-init based nested setup
[07:43] <zyga-mbp> there's ubuntu, snaps and lava in the mix
[07:43] <zyga-mbp> what's not to like :)
[07:44] <zyga-mbp> oh and landscape too
[07:45]  * zyga-mbp mvo check out my detailed instructions and the photos of the assembled set https://git.ostc-eu.org/OSTC/infrastructure/rpi4-metal-setup :)
[07:46] <mvo> zyga-mbp: oh, nice!
[07:47] <zyga-mbp> I will be setting up a few of those tomorrow, should fill one shelf in the rack
[07:47] <zyga-mbp> and finally some zephyr :)
[08:28] <mup> PR snapd#10866 closed: many: replace state.State restart support with overlord/restart <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10866>
[09:07] <dn___> I have a desperate problem with snap (I think). I see ` Switch "lxd" snap to cohort "+"` in snap changes and this kills my lxd cluster; I have than to remove lxd, install lxd and restore from savepoint;
[09:08] <dn___> What does the `cohort '+'` mean? And how can I stop it?
[09:19] <dn___> I see e.g.
[09:20] <dn___> 119  Done    today at 03:34 UTC      today at 03:34 UTC      Switch "lxd" snap to cohort "+"
[09:20] <dn___> several times in the log after each other, at some point it stops and lxd is broken and I need to remove/install it again to make it work;
[09:31] <pstolowski> dn___: that "+" looks very weird, i cannot see anything obvious in the code (yet). you haven't played with cohorts before, have you? you can try snap switch --leave-cohort lxd
[09:32] <dn___> pstolowski: never - what does leaving mean? (I don't want to wreak avok in the lcust eagain)
[09:32] <dn___> I'm kinda struggeling with snap/lxd since a while; most of the time it works fine - sometimes it starts upgrading, but not all nodes update at the same moment and than the cluster breaks - but doesn't shutdown; this chorot thingie shutdown the lxd and all VMs
[09:48] <pstolowski> dn___: see https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/managing-cohorts/8995 ; leaving a cohort basically means that lxd snap would not be constrained by the given cohort when refreshing. what does 'snap info lxd' show - is there a cohort listed?
[09:49] <dn___> pstolowski I run now the command - but let me check if I have an old output
[09:53] <dn___> http://pastie.org/p/2Dc7yuneXwLZFEpe0nUfjz this was before I run it - and http://pastie.org/p/31hdtXvVAag2PeUp9ORLJh after
[09:54] <mborzecki> mvo: can you land https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10882 ?
[09:54] <mup> PR #10882: tests/main/interfaces-many: run both variants on all possible Ubuntu systems <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10882>
[09:56] <mborzecki> mvo: and this one too: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10884
[09:56] <mup> PR #10884: tests/main: disable cgroup-devices-v1 and freezer tests on 21.10 <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10884>
[10:00] <pstolowski> dn___: that's very weird, there is no trace of cohort in the first output. something tried to switch cohort for lxd snap but I've no idea what. do you use any kind of orchestration for your clusters - something that could automatically do something like this (e.g. snap switch --cohort ... or snap refresh --cohort=... lxd?
[10:04] <dn___> pstolowski: hm - the servers are bare metal, setuped via ansible - but that's like 1y ago :)  otherwise I only use the lxc create/destroy via API nothing else/nothing fancy
[10:05] <dn___> pstolowski: the only other thingie I got as piece of info: it seems like the cluster goes out of sync from time to time (lxd) - and this seems to be related to snap updating/refreshing nodes
[10:06] <dn___> pstolowski: http://pastie.org/p/0DzGQNrXA1mdwKbjWQRjIY if that is any clue/help - the remove/install and restore is me fixing manual the node
[10:08] <pstolowski> dn___: it's a bit misterious what happened, the "+" isn't even a valid cohort id afaik.
[10:09] <pstolowski> dn___: also, "Switch "lxd" snap to cohort ..." task can only be a result of manual invocation of "snap switch.." command (or call to snapd's rest api)
[10:10] <dn___> oh, I run it manual on all instances - but it happend again :/
[10:10] <dn___> cluster down - what a joy; anything you want me to check before I do remove lxd, install lxd?:) I'm so glad for any idea
[10:10] <dn___> s
[10:10] <pstolowski> dn___: is lxd in cohort "+" on these other instances?
[10:11] <dn___> http://pastie.org/p/2TrdClykJi6sQUGCQrN4Zw
[10:11] <pstolowski> dn___: oh it got switched to "+" again?
[10:11] <dn___> pstolowski: I'm not 100% sure how to check; but all throw the same error before they kill LXD in a bad way
[10:11] <dn___> yeap :/
[10:12] <dn___> also -> this than leads to `-bash: /snap/bin/lxc: No such file or directory`
[10:12] <dn___> If I now stop lxd; remove it, install it, restore from saved, start it - it will be fine agian
[10:13] <dn___> also removing is bugging than, too and I need todo it manual
[10:13] <dn___> http://pastie.org/p/0CGlgR34Fn0onbyoEJ1EvD
[10:14] <dn___> ls -al /var/snap/lxd/21497/
[10:14] <dn___> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Oct  6 09:52 .
[10:14] <dn___> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Oct  6 10:13 ..
[10:14] <dn___> it keeps an empty dir
[10:14] <dn___> also -> `lxd               21624  latest/stable  canonical✓  disabled,broken,in-cohort`
[10:15] <dn___> while broken
[10:15] <pstolowski> dn___: so I think the magical "Switch "lxd" snap to cohort "+"" is done by something else outside of our control (it's not snapd)
[10:15] <pstolowski> and this breaks everything
[10:17] <ogra> ogra@anubis:~$ grep -r cohort /snap/lxd/current/*
[10:17] <pstolowski> we shouldn't fall over this for sure so this looks like a problem
[10:17] <dn___> hmm, any idea what it coudl be? It's a bare metal machine and nothing beside LXD/snap runs on it/is installed + the VMs
[10:17] <ogra> /snap/lxd/current/commands/daemon.start:    nsenter -t 1 -m snap switch lxd --cohort=+ >/dev/null || true
[10:17] <ogra> pstolowski, ^^^
[10:17] <pstolowski> ouch
[10:17] <dn___> right after install snap list shows `lxd     4.19      21654  4.19/candidate  canonical✓  -`
[10:17] <ogra> yes
[10:17] <dn___> but after a moment it shows
[10:17] <dn___> `lxd     4.19      21654  4.19/candidate  canonical✓  in-cohort`
[10:18] <mup> PR snapd#10874 closed: gadget: mv ensureLayoutCompatibility to gadget proper, add gadgettest pkg <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10874>
[10:18] <mup> PR snapd#10882 closed: tests/main/interfaces-many: run both variants on all possible Ubuntu systems <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10882>
[10:18] <mup> PR snapd#10884 closed: tests/main: disable cgroup-devices-v1 and freezer tests on 21.10 <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10884>
[10:18] <mup> PR snapd#10892 opened: tests: add (strict) microk8s smoke test <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10892>
[10:19] <pstolowski> ok looking at the comment there "+" means something special
[10:19] <dn___> thank you very much; will try to get the node up agian :/
[10:21] <dn___> does it maybe help if I try to downgrade the cluster from 4.19/candidate to 4.18/stable - and is that even possible?:)
[10:22] <ogra> uh, yo are running production from a candidate channel ?
[10:22] <ogra> *you
[10:22] <pstolowski> dn___: might be worth filing a bug against snapd+lxd with all the details (and snap changes list) if it is reproducible
[10:22] <dn___> @o
[10:22] <dn___> @o
[10:22] <dn___> orga: sorry for spam / not on purpose... I think
[10:22] <dn___> I might wanted 4.X when I did the setupt and it was just a candidate - and forgot about it :/
[10:23] <dn___> Is there a way of downgrading it to 4.18/stable?
[10:23] <pstolowski> snap refresh --stable lxd
[10:24] <dn___> I would need this on all nodes + is there any issue e.g. with sqlite/migration/something? (just wondering - never did that)
[10:26] <pstolowski> dn___: i don't know, may make sense to ask this on snapcraft.io forums, or maybe stgraber ^ can advise if he is online
[10:27] <ogra> and you should probably file a bug about the cohort thing so it does not move from candidate to stable later ...
[10:27] <dn___> thank you - do you know by chance if all 'config/settings/sqlite' are stored  in the /var/snap/lxd folder? If so I would stop it, backup, reinstall stable and just try
[10:27] <dn___> ogra: got a url to a tracker/where to fill it?
[10:28] <ogra> ogra@anubis:~$ snap info lxd|grep contact
[10:28] <ogra> contact:   https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues
[10:28] <ogra> try there 🙂
[10:28] <dn___> thank you
[10:31] <dn___> I still don't really understand what is failing/failover to - is there anything I can google/check?
[10:32] <vidal72[m]> for how long old snap versions are available in snap store? is there time limit or version limit?
[10:33] <ogra> vidal72[m], that differs between user and developer/uploader
[10:34] <ogra> as developer you have access to all revisions ever uploaded ...
[10:34] <vidal72[m]> and as user?
[10:35] <ogra> only what the developer released to a track or channel
[10:37] <vidal72[m]> all revisions ever uploaded to track/channel?
[10:38] <ogra> no, only the ones the developer released
[10:38] <ogra> i.e. the current ones
[10:44] <vidal72[m]> you mean only the latest one? For sure it's not the case, I can download older versions. My question is if there is some cleanup happening over time or can I download those old revisions infinitely?
[10:44] <pstolowski> mardy: hey, can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10824 again?
[10:44] <mup> PR #10824: tests: check that a snap that doesn't have gate-auto-refresh hook can call --proceed <Refresh control> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10824>
[10:45] <pstolowski> would love to land that one
[10:47] <vidal72[m]> ogra: is my understanding correct that if uploader has access to old revisions forever then everyone else can have access too if they know the link to old revision?
[10:51] <dn___> I found one more odd thing, but maybe I'm reading it wrong: `lxd     4.19      21624  latest/stable  canonical✓  -` - read for me like 4.19 is in latest/stable; but snap info lxd shows `  latest/stable:    4.18        2021-09-13 (21497) 75MB -` - am I just reading it wrong?
[10:53] <ogra> vidal72[m], i dont think so, but a store person would have to answer that ... technically a user should not have any access to not currentlöy released versions
[10:58] <vidal72[m]> a hidden feature then? :)
[10:58] <ogra> rather a glaring bug 🙂
[10:59] <vidal72[m]> if that's the case then please forget this conversation ;)
[10:59] <ogra> haha
[11:13] <mup> PR snapd#10886 closed: o/snapstate: test prereq update if started by old version <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by MiguelPires> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10886>
[11:32] <dn___> without any change from me -> http://pastie.org/p/1AhUlvB7bEZyBwMo8ycAZT
[11:41] <pstolowski> mvo: could you please land https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10868 ?
[11:41] <mup> PR #10868: o/snapstate: support ignore-validation flag when updating to a specific snap revision <validation-sets :white_check_mark:> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10868>
[11:46] <mardy> pstolowski: +1
[11:47] <pstolowski> thx
[11:50] <pstolowski> dn___: yeah i see this cohort-switching is also present in older versions of lxd (i checked 4.18). can you paste 'snap changes' again? I think it may be best to take this to the forum to also have input from lxd developers
[12:06] <dn___> pstolowski: http://pastie.org/p/3o6pg2XAXSXrUHEmlKrbAy is there any better pastie service these days? it seems to have only a ttl of 24h
[12:07] <pstolowski> dn___: pastebin.ubuntu.com ftw!
[12:08] <dn___> needs an account :)
[12:09] <pstolowski> dn___: just to double-check: right after you notice `Switch "lxd" snap to cohort "+"` task, the lxd snap appears broken right?
[12:09] <pstolowski> hmm right it needs an account
[12:10] <dn___> pstolowski: yes, but I can't say if it happens after the first switch or the last - because the switches happen so fast
[12:10] <dn___> pstolowski: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/cdzRymdnhz/
[12:10] <pstolowski> dn___: thanks
[12:11] <dn___> pstolowski: thank you! Line: 123/124 - it happens quickly and after that it wa sbroken
[12:13] <pstolowski> dn___: silly question, do you know whey are there multiple switches, is this related to the cluster configuration?
[12:13] <pstolowski> hmm maybe the daemon start simply fails and is retried
[12:15] <pstolowski> dn___: one more thing, could you paste the output of systemctl status snap.lxd.daemon.service after it appears broken (and before you remove/reinstall it)?
[12:36] <dn___> sorry, lost my connection ... super day :)
[12:36] <dn___> pstolowski: regarding multiple switches: no idea, I never knew about cohort before I think or noticed - it also happens 'randomly' - was
[12:36] <dn___> will try to keep an eye on the status & check systemctl when it happens
[12:42] <pstolowski> dn___: ok. i think it's just the deamon failing to start and getting re-tried by systemd a couple of times
[12:49] <mup> PR snapd#10868 closed: o/snapstate: support ignore-validation flag when updating to a specific snap revision <validation-sets :white_check_mark:> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10868>
[12:56] <dn___> pstolowski: does older log entries help you? I can try to check them when it happend - let me try to find them
[12:57] <pstolowski> dn___: yes, they might. But it would be best if you collected all this under a bug report
[12:58] <dn___> you are right, will try
[13:01] <pstolowski> dn___: thanks. someone will probably look at this soon, but i'm not sure if it will be me
[13:02] <dn___> I'll start collecting - https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/f7kP4YJrbg/ and make an issue
[13:02] <dn___> that's when the last 'swicherido' happend
[13:45] <dn___> pstolowski: happend again -> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/nxysmpc4FT/ (will do issue, still fighting)
[13:50] <dn___> pstolowski: just fyi - this is my full journey & output how I fix it when it happens: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/bHG6cvSqb2/
[13:51] <pstolowski> dn___: you can stop doing "snap switch --leave-cohort lxd" because lxd wants to be in this cohort and will just keep switching to it anyway
[13:51] <dn___> oki, I see - would have been to easy l;-)
[13:51] <pstolowski> (I initially tought this was a wrong cohort coming from somewhere)
[13:54] <dn___> will try to debug/keep the cluster going & write the issue - also glad for any other idea;-)
[13:57] <pstolowski> dn___: input from lxd guys may help, therefore forum.snapcraft.io may be a good place
[13:57] <pstolowski> to discuss
[14:01] <stgraber> dn___, ogra, pstolowski: the + cohort is a special cohort that all LXD cluster users must be in
[14:01] <stgraber> if some servers aren't in it, they'll get different LXD releases during phased rollout, breaking the cluster
[14:04] <dn___> oki, thank you will try (forum/and trying to figure out if same cohort)
[14:14] <pstolowski> mvo: can you also land https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10824 ?
[14:14] <mup> PR #10824: tests: check that a snap that doesn't have gate-auto-refresh hook can call --proceed <Refresh control> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10824>
[14:17] <mvo> pstolowski: sure
[14:18] <pstolowski> ty
[14:19] <mup> PR snapd#10824 closed: tests: check that a snap that doesn't have gate-auto-refresh hook can call --proceed <Refresh control> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10824>
[14:30] <mup> PR core20#116 opened: hooks: adjtime: add adjtime file to etc <Created by stulluk> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/116>
[14:58] <ijohnson[m]> degville: can you publish https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/quota-groups/25553 on the snapcraft.io/docs site?
[15:04] <mup> PR snapd#10893 opened: i/builtin/kubernetes_support: add access to Calico lock file <Created by mardy> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10893>
[15:48] <degville> ijohnson[m]: sorry for the delay. That doc can be found at https://snapcraft.io/docs/quota-groups, but I'll also add it to the navigation so it's more discoverable.
[15:48] <ijohnson[m]> ah perfect, I couldn't find it via searching
[15:48] <ijohnson[m]> thanks degville
[15:49] <degville> ijohnson[m]: good point about the search. That sounds like a bug.
[16:14] <pstolowski> mvo: a bit of a confusion: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10894
[16:14] <mup> PR #10894: [RFC] o/configcore: allow hostnames up to 253 characters, with dot-delimited elements <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10894>
[16:14] <mup> PR snapd#10894 opened: [RFC] o/configcore: allow hostnames up to 253 characters, with dot-delimited elements <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10894>
[16:20] <pstolowski> also ijohnson[m] ^
[16:34] <mup> PR snapd#10895 opened: many: wait for up to 10min for NTP syncronization before autorefresh <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10895>
[18:57] <dn___> Oct  6 18:54:07 n02 snap-failure[331032]: retry.go:49: DEBUG: Retrying https://api.snapcraft.io/api/v1/snaps/names?confinement=strict%2Cclassic, attempt 1, elapsed time=5.781µs
[18:57] <dn___> Oct  6 18:54:07 n02 snap-failure[331032]: retry.go:184: DEBUG: Not retrying: &errors.errorString{s:"too many requests"}
[18:57] <dn___> does it mean snap does to many requests to the API? (I only got 10 instances, but all use the same external ip)
[21:15] <mup> PR snapcraft#3588 opened: snap: patch patchelf on riscv64 (CRAFT-566) <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3588>


 It's been a long time.
[02:37] <bazhang> hah
[02:37] <bazhang> not *that* long
[02:38] <Madpilot> I'm not sure Launchpad lists me as an op anymore, I have a feeling I let that lapse in a fit of inattention over the winter...
[02:39] <bazhang> easily amended if so
[02:39] <bazhang> several people missed that one
[02:39] <Madpilot> yeah, I should ping the IRC mailing list
[10:55] <LjL> @mark #ubuntu mi3 Randomly calls someone a "bitch"
[11:31] <bioterror> LjL, nice
[11:55] <oCean> lars_<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:55] <oCean> joined #u
[23:45] <chu> Hey, is anyone watching #ubuntu at this time?
[23:46] <IdleOne> you are
[23:46] <chu> Someone with the associated privs :p
[23:46] <chu> But, it seems to have ended now. It appeared to be going somewhere else for a second there.
[23:46] <IdleOne> relating specific issues helps :)
[23:47] <chu> Well then, next time I drop past I will cite what the issue might be. Hehe.
[23:47] <chu> See you in #offtopic, sir.


[21:35] <guiverc> not sure if already noticed... But I'm getting "Warning: This version of xscreensaver is VERY OLD!  Please upgrade!"  on anything xscreensaver related (inc. unlock session)
[21:35]  * guiverc wasn't around much yesterday; no idea if noticed/talked about yesterday
[23:01] <arraybolt3> guiverc: That's not good. Sounds like we need to patch out a warning.
[23:02] <arraybolt3> (jwz is infamous for this sort of thing. Sigh. Just because he doesn't understand our logic doesn't mean he needs to try and overrule us.)
[23:03] <arraybolt3> guiverc: What version of Lubuntu is this one, Jammy, Kinetic, or Lunar?
[23:04] <arraybolt3> (or focal, I guess)
[23:04] <arraybolt3> *on
[23:05] <guiverc> lunar... what we've not yet released!
[23:06] <arraybolt3> Yeah there's probably a jwz landmine in there that Debian failed to patch out.
[23:06] <guiverc> yeah I know about jwz ... we've had this issue before; but not pre-release (that I recall anyway)
[23:06] <arraybolt3> Bookworm just updated to the latest version of XScreenSaver recently, and Bullseye is on a much older and already-patched version, so we don't need to help them (yet).
[23:07] <arraybolt3> Anyway, zsyncing the ISO now. I might not have a whole lot of time but I can at least try to help.
[23:08] <guiverc> i didn't note this yesterday (but as busy could easily have missed it)  so it could be here it's monday 6-march ... you're still 5-march (if you don't notice it)
[23:09] <arraybolt3> True, good catch. Anyway I'll probably be able to find it by grepping the code for "distro". He usually adds some dire warning in the source code to tell distro maintainers not to patch out the warning, which incidentally also should work as an easy way of finding what to patch out :D
[23:14] <guiverc> arraybolt3, screenshot with message (on opening xscreensaver) can be seen here...  its my actual screen which is messy; lower-left screen & top left with error-msg-box sort of central; to left of my hexchat window
[23:14] <arraybolt3> Found the code.
[23:14] <guiverc> https://drive.google.com/file/d/18IETQ944RJAcc5RWLlXVFG1oUi3aXJXm/view?usp=sharing
[23:15]  * guiverc forgot the link sorry
[23:15] <arraybolt3> guiverc: https://bpa.st/UDWEY
[23:15] <arraybolt3> That should be able to just be patched out and us be happy.
[23:15] <guiverc> :)
[23:16] <guiverc> yep... that's the message !
[23:16] <arraybolt3> guiverc: I'll have a patch out, in, oh, give me 30 minutes to an hour.
[23:16] <guiverc> do you need a bug report (sru etc)
[23:16] <arraybolt3> guiverc: Nope.
[23:16] <guiverc> :)
[23:16] <arraybolt3> For Lunar, this is a bug fix, not a feature change.
[23:16] <arraybolt3> If it were a feature change we'd need an FFe, but I don't think this counts.
[23:17] <guiverc> :)   i'll file one if helpful; just sing out (ping)
[23:18] <arraybolt3> I mean... meh, this is *kind* of coming close to a feature change, so if you want to file a bug report so I can defend it, I guess that may be helpful.
[23:18] <arraybolt3> guiverc: ^
[23:24] <guiverc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xscreensaver/+bug/2009306
[23:24] -ubottu:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2009306 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "xscreensaver Warning message 'This version of xscreensaver is VERY OLD!  Please upgrade!\n' on waking my lunar box this morning" [Undecided, New]
[23:36] <arraybolt3> Alright, patch made, building and testing.
[23:54]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (24KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/DSnfjrDVMIxlTUzmpwQBderT/image.png >
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Well what do you know. There's more than one mine hidden in this field.
[23:55] <guiverc> yeah that's the message I first saw when I woke box up... i didn't logout to get message correct in my bug report sorry...


[03:01] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U
[11:45] <rick_h> morning
[11:45] <rick_h> hello DotD, I think I'll be buying you today
[11:51] <mydogsnameisrudy> morning
[11:52] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:53] <snap-l> That was just released, wasn't it?
[11:53] <snap-l> The DotD
[11:53] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, I was waiting for it to come out
[11:53] <rick_h> so even better, clear off the wishlist at 50% off
[11:55] <snap-l> Yeah, I believe O'Reilly has figured out this impulse buy thing. :)
[11:56] <mydogsnameisrudy> buy now pay later
[12:22] <rick_h> this is depressing: link from canonical voices http://cityblogger.com/archives/2012/02/15/which-is-less-expensive-amazon-or-self-hosted
[12:27] <Wolfger> morning
[12:30] <Wolfger> Machine Learning? rick_h is going to bring Skynet down upon us... :-(
[12:30] <rick_h> that's the plan!
[12:31] <rick_h> that's what bookie is, my attempt to build skynet
[12:34] <Wolfger> Ahnold will find Sarah Connor via her web surfing habits.
[13:41] <snap-l> rick_h: IS the gigaom link depressing?
[13:42] <rick_h> the cityblogger thing is' like 80% ads on the page. THe content is squished to the left 5 words wide
[13:43] <rick_h> and this is from a canonical employee sharing on the planet like that
[13:43] <rick_h> just depressing it's so giant ad heavy
[13:43] <brousch> gotta pay the bills yo
[13:45] <snap-l> rick_h: Ah, I have adblocker installed, so I didn't see it. :)
[13:45] <snap-l> And yes, that was pretty light on content (on both counts)
[13:45] <rick_h> ah, I try to run without, just flash block so that I don't go total freetard on the net
[13:46] <snap-l> No, not noscript, adblock. :)
[13:46] <snap-l> Makes visiting places like detnews.com livable
[13:48] <brousch> also essential on my phone
[13:48] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ppre5/the_new_d_online_forum_software_written_in_d/ <- Apparently NNTP Is making a comeback
[13:48] <snap-l> And I for one would love to see NNTP everywhere.
[13:49] <nullspace> snap-l: so how goes the new job?
[13:49] <snap-l> nullspace: I'm not ready to throttle rick_h yet. :)
[13:49] <rick_h> only because they've not made him work on my code :P
[13:49] <nullspace> nice
[13:49] <snap-l> I'm enjoying it so far, but I'm now digging into some of the data loading scripts
[13:49] <snap-l> and excel can die in a dire
[13:50] <snap-l> fire, even
[13:50] <rick_h> ugh
[13:50] <nullspace> what are you using to parse it?
[13:50] <snap-l> Well, it's already being parsed
[13:51] <snap-l> but I'd like to come up with a better way to detect it, and parse it
[13:51] <snap-l> Python handles two out of the three formats that I've seen pretty cleanly.
[13:51] <snap-l> but there's no "one-true-XLS" parser out there.
[13:51] <nullspace> we are about to break into that ourselves but we are going with an apache foundation project
[13:52] <snap-l> nullspace: Which project?
[13:52] <nullspace> I think POI
[13:53] <snap-l> Oh, purdy
[13:53] <nullspace> we are already using it to write to excel and it's awesome, well as awesome as one can get with writing to excel
[13:53] <snap-l> Java API for MIcrosoft documents
[13:53] <nullspace> it's always a messy job
[13:53] <snap-l> I think I just wretched a bit in my mouth
[13:54] <brousch> snap-l: i've had good luck with xlrd
[13:54] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, and the openpyxlst (sp?) looks very nice
[13:54] <nullspace> snap-l: if you saw our how fast our pages run you'd not be wreching
[13:55] <snap-l> there's apparently a straight XML (non-zipped) format that Excel upchucks which unfortunately doesn't have a module that can handle it
[13:55] <snap-l> nullspace: Java API for MS Documents is wretch-worthy. :)
[13:55] <brousch> switch everyone to openoffice ;)
[13:55] <snap-l> It's like coating a plate of shit with maggots. :)
[13:56] <snap-l> brousch: Were that I were king, this would be a non-issue
[13:56] <snap-l> ODF, or to the gallows with you.
[13:56] <nullspace> snap-l: if maggots and shot tasted like steak then you might be right
[13:56] <snap-l> nullspace: IF you're hungry enough, anything can taste good. :)
[13:58] <nullspace> the entire report generating file is only 230 lines
[13:59] <nullspace> snap-l: so what is that you against java again?
[13:59] <snap-l> nullspace: I'm not a fan, no
[13:59] <rick_h> wait, did someone ask for a bitch list against java?
[13:59] <nullspace> why exactly, I'm not trying to convert
[14:00] <rick_h> this is going to take a while...how many pages max do I get?
[14:00] <brousch> rick_h: please use a pastebin
[14:00] <rick_h> brousch: think of the web servers please, accepting that many MB over POST is going to hurt!
[14:00] <nullspace> rick_h: you know your phone is running java right?
[14:01] <rick_h> nullspace: yep! and I've not written a single program for my phone that wasn't python + web :)
[14:01] <rick_h> nullspace: you know your linux install runs C right? Surely you should be writing all things in C!
[14:01] <snap-l> nullspace: The biggest current reason is that Oracle controls the fate of Java.
[14:01] <rick_h> ooh, I like these types of arguments, what's next?
[14:01] <nullspace> rick_h: not what I'm saying
[14:02] <snap-l> so it's impossible to distribute Sun's Java without going through Oracle
[14:02] <rick_h> no, biggest current reason is that it's a bear to code in and a pita to work with
[14:02] <snap-l> And the only other recourse is to distribute Open JDK
[14:02] <rick_h> it's like ergonomics, sure people get by with crap chairs, but man, a nice chair sure makes the work day better
[14:02] <nullspace> snap-l: I was attrached by the overwhelming number of apache projects and most are in java
[14:02] <snap-l> nullspace: That's great for you. :)
[14:03] <snap-l> Every time I've waded inthe Java pool, I feel disgusted
[14:03] <rick_h> and I hear that most MS projects are written in C#, and most github projects are in ruby
[14:03] <rick_h> ooh, another fun one. You noticed that communities seem to stick around the same ideas.
[14:05] <nullspace> rick_h: makes sense that communities would do that
[14:07] <brousch> estimated monstly cost for the grpug site on heroku is still $0
[14:07] <brousch> nice
[14:08] <snap-l> brousch: Very cool
[14:08] <rick_h> brousch: woot
[14:08] <snap-l> Let me put that up on reddit. :)
[14:08] <brousch> heh
[14:08]  * brousch starts looking into caching
[14:08] <nullspace> snap-l: yes the thought that oracle could do a number of things that would poision Java but I see all those as means to loose money and have people quickly abandon the platform
[14:09] <snap-l> nullspace: s/could/are doing/
[14:09] <snap-l> Sorry, is doing.
[14:09] <nullspace> I have yet to see that
[14:09] <nullspace> maybe I missed an article
[14:10] <snap-l> Patent lawsuit against Google for Dalvek
[14:10] <snap-l> Revoking the OSS distribution license.
[14:10] <nullspace> hmm looks like a money grab, I think oracle will loose on that one
[14:11] <snap-l> nullspace: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/java-to-be-removed-from-ubuntu-uninstalled-from-user-machines/
[14:12] <snap-l> I think this is just the tip of the iceberg
[14:13] <snap-l> Oracle does not know how to be a nice OSS citizen
[14:13] <nullspace> snap-l: I think to understand Ellison you have to be just as crazy as him
[14:13] <brousch> s/crazy/greedy/
[14:14] <nullspace> brousch: no he is crazy
[14:14] <snap-l> Right, so why would I want to buy into an ecosystem that requires me to be a man that I despise?
[14:14] <snap-l> When the language isn't that hot to begin with, and the only compelling part is the JVM?
[14:14] <brousch> you don't have to understand him to use his stuff, you just have to pay him
[14:15] <snap-l> I don't need to hit my hand with a hammer every morning to remember that it hurts.
[14:15] <brousch> pay fo what you use, you damn freetard!
[14:15] <snap-l> The only saving grace is that Sun in it's dying throes OSSesd a lot of stuff
[14:16] <snap-l> So now we have Libreoffice, a dozen+ MySQL forks, and VirtualBox OSE
[14:17] <snap-l> and OpenJDK
[14:18] <nullspace> OpenJDK seems to be working just fine for us
[14:18] <jrwren> i just bought a usb tv device with no linux support. i fail.
[14:19] <rick_h> you're supposed to ask devin for the right one first
[14:19] <rick_h> since he makes/made them and all that
[14:19] <brousch> jrwren: as punishment you must feed, clothe, bathe, and house RMS for 1 week
[14:19] <rick_h> where did I put mine hmmm
[14:19] <jrwren> rick_h: i read that gigom article yesterday.  I have to support three different formats.
[14:28] <snap-l> xls blobs, xls XML, and xlsx.
[14:28] <nullspace> xls is the real bitch
[14:28] <brousch> you can't require them to send you something reasonable?
[14:28] <snap-l> brousch: This is a customer site. :)
[14:28] <snap-l> This is "reasonable"
[14:29] <jrwren> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html  I like the "No Administrative Costs" point the best :)
[14:29] <nullspace> brousch: all they see is values, they have no idea what is takes to move it from one place to another
[14:30] <brousch> only accept CSV or something
[14:30] <snap-l> brousch: See above.
[14:30] <rick_h> yea, they love to send around 20 sheet workbooks
[14:30] <jrwren> seems like someone could make a few bucks (and only a few bucks) a month doing a conversion service. e.g. you send the web service an xls and it sends you back... openoffice format, or xlsx or csv
[14:31] <snap-l> jrwren: I'd be happy if it sent back a mysql dump
[14:31] <jrwren> table per sheet ?
[14:31] <snap-l> and when I'm king, there will be no data exports, only database connections.
[14:31] <brousch> adam williams in the grpug has an extensive system for converting those things
[14:31] <jrwren> should it expand the formula or just send you formula as values?
[14:32] <jrwren> and when I'm king, there will be no database connections, only well documented rest services
[14:32] <snap-l> jrwren: Long live the king
[14:32] <brousch> he's made it so he can create a template for each customer format and then handle it the same way
[14:32] <snap-l> brousch: That's awesome, save for this is just one customer. :)
[14:33] <brousch> ah
[14:33] <brousch> he processes data from hundreds of vendors so he created a generalized solution
[14:33] <snap-l> And that's wise.
[14:35] <snap-l> I found one python magic script that looked promising
[14:35] <snap-l> save for everything came back as "data"
[14:36] <snap-l> Ah, here's another one
[14:37]  * snap-l gleefully wants to have "import magic" at the top of this file. :)
[14:54] <snap-l> BREAKING: Random Ubuntu developer asks followers for restaurant suggestions. By unanimity, decides to eat on "Unity sucks, I hope you die!"
[15:17] <ColonelPanic001> >: - |
[15:18] <brousch>  /join kubuntu-us-mi
[15:18] <brousch> oops
[15:22] <Wolfger> brousch: why did you leave the channel?
[15:22] <brousch> because it was a bad joke :P
[15:23] <brousch> no need to fork yet
[15:23] <Wolfger> There's 2 of us in there. Come join the fun :-)
[15:32] <Wolfger> why does Firefox keep throwing twitter.com cert exception errors at me, regardless of the fact I don't have any twitter-related windows open?
[15:32] <Wolfger> I wiped my history, cookies, and cache...
[15:33] <brousch> your company is MitMing you
[15:33] <Wolfger> MitMing?
[15:34] <Wolfger> oh
[15:34] <brousch> man in the middle
[15:34] <Wolfger> well yeah, but why would FF even be trying to get to twitter?
[15:36] <brousch> to autotweet every page you visit to the IT department
[15:37] <Wolfger> LOL
[15:37] <Wolfger> unlikely
[15:37] <Wolfger> Twitter was suddenly un-verboten last week when they wanted us to go vote on the Chrysler ads for best Super Bowl commercial...
[15:38] <Wolfger> and now it's verboten again, so the MitM attack on twitter, FB, etc is back in place
[15:38] <Wolfger> but that should not (and never previously did) affect me when I'm just on Gmail and IRCCloud
[15:43] <snap-l> Wolfger: Seriously? That's pathetic.
[15:45] <Wolfger> snap-l: what, the "go vote for us please"? Yeah...
[15:49] <Wolfger> we were even encouraged to vote multiple times
[15:49] <Wolfger> stuff those ballot boxes, guys
[15:50] <snap-l> Yeah, because nobody will notice all of these votes coming from chrysler.com
[15:52] <snap-l> If there is a soundtrack that makes me want to program, it's the Tron soundtrack (from 1982)
[15:59] <jrwren> Wolfger: its probably every page you visit pinging back to twitter to prep for those "tweet this" tags on the page.
[16:00] <jrwren> facebook does the samething.
[16:00] <jrwren> its one of many reasons i run noscript
[16:05] <snap-l> Yeah, those dippy little bugs / tags are a PITA
[16:05] <snap-l> funny to see the designers that plan for it, and the ones that don't.
[16:07] <tjagoda> Woot
[16:07] <tjagoda> Sysadmin Opening @ Canonical
[16:08] <snap-l> Yeah, saw that
[16:10] <tjagoda> CANONICAL, I WILL HAVE YOU
[16:11] <jrwren> why do you want to work for canonical?
[16:18] <brousch> all the cool kids are doing it
[16:18] <tjagoda> Canonical is changing the face of teh linuks
[16:19] <tjagoda> I am a fan of working diligently in support of that
[16:19] <tjagoda> I am especially a fan of getting paid for that
[16:23] <jrwren> cool answer.
[16:37] <tjagoda> If you ever use it, I'll have to kill you ;)
[16:38] <snap-l> LIstening to A Clockwork Orange's soundtrack is probably not the wisest move while wading through this code.
[16:46] <Wolfger> jrwren: Yeah, I run noscript as well. :-p
[16:48] <Wolfger> tjagoda: if you are a fan of "working diligently in support of changing the face of Linux", then why did you bail out of Ubuntu when they made some changes? ;-)
[16:52] <snap-l> Wolfger: Shhhhh
[16:52] <snap-l> Never let a good story get in the way of the facts. :)
[16:53] <Wolfger> I didn't
[16:53] <Wolfger> I think you meant to say the opposite
[16:53] <Wolfger> :-)
[16:53] <snap-l> bah
[16:54] <snap-l> I stand by what I meant to say
[17:06] <tjagoda> I still use ubuntu
[17:06] <tjagoda> I just use a different desktop environment
[17:10] <jrwren> i need a LGPL license with an iOS static linking exception :)
[17:11] <jrwren> i still use ubuntu too
[17:11] <jrwren> and I use a different deaktop environment. windows and osx
[17:12] <rick_h> umm heh
[17:13] <snap-l> jrwren: please to be telling me the results of `cat /proc/cpuinfo` on said Windows and OSX desktop environments.
[17:13] <rick_h> snap-l: how dare you make him stoop to the cmd line. The cmd line is a bug!
[17:14] <snap-l> rick_h: Ah, my bad
[17:14] <snap-l> OPen nautilus, move to /proc/cpuinfo and double-click
[17:16] <snap-l> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/javacpufeb2012-366318.html
[17:17] <rick_h> wheee
[17:21] <snap-l> Reason #454623 why Oracle needs to DIAF: https://support.oracle.com/CSP/main/article?cmd=show&type=NOT&id=1404863.1
[17:21] <snap-l> Go on, click on that link
[17:22] <rick_h> Sign Up for a free Oracle Web account
[17:23] <snap-l> Yes, to find out what's in the support notes
[17:23] <snap-l> ie: what changed.
[17:32] <snap-l> Sometimes I think the toy collectible market goes way too far: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/ec60/
[17:32] <rick_h> woot, loving ec2 test/landing. landing 4 branches at once and my machine doesn't have to run4 sets of tests at once yay
[17:33] <snap-l> Does it spin up four instances?
[17:33] <rick_h> yea
[17:33] <rick_h> 4 large ec2 instances
[17:34] <tjagoda> snap-l: whats wrong with a little molding?
[17:34] <snap-l> tjagoda: Nothing, but it's just a little... what's the word?... creepy
[17:35] <tjagoda> If I get hired by Geek.net or Canonical, I will buy this for my home office: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e9b8/
[17:49] <jrwren> rick_h: oh EFF YOU!  not having /proc is one thing, not having cmdline is completely different!
[17:49] <rick_h> :)
[17:49] <jrwren> rick_h: that said, you are one of the few people in the world that i've met that probably has better cmdline fu than me :)
[17:50] <rick_h> jrwren: not sure on that. I'm just very happy with my 10%
[17:50] <jrwren> 10% ?
[17:50] <jrwren> i just love cmdline and feel like i'm pretty good at it.
[17:50] <rick_h> every tool, find the 10% you use all the time and kill it
[17:50] <jrwren> does that go for your wood working tools too?
[17:50] <rick_h> I know maybe 10% of other masters, but happy with my 10% to make myself productive
[17:51] <rick_h> jrwren: definitely, you get into comfy patterns with how you use things
[17:51] <rick_h> not sure on the 10% thing
[17:51] <snap-l> rick_h knows 10 commands, but he types them faster than anyone I know. ;)
[17:51] <rick_h> I was more thinking of things like vim, shell, etc
[17:51] <jrwren> i feel like i actually know more than 10% of bash and coreutils and there are things that I know I don't know... its things that i don't know that i don't know that i'm not sure abou t;P
[17:51] <rick_h> right, well I guess I'm saying less "know of" and more "use regularaly"
[17:51] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, that's the rub
[17:51] <jrwren> i'm thinking purely shell and coreutils
[17:52] <jrwren> i'm not counting vim... vim is too huge :)
[17:52] <rick_h> except with spell correct in there
[17:52] <rick_h> vim is as large as shell/cmd line fu I'd think
[17:52] <jrwren> larger.
[17:52] <rick_h> anyway, I think you probably know more cmd line stuff than me
[17:52] <jrwren> amount of vim knowledge is far larger than shell+coreutils
[17:53] <rick_h> but anyway, I was just making a joke on the cmd line thing
[17:53] <jrwren> doubtful. you actually made the zsh leap. I'm back on bash and I don't even leverage completion providers much
[17:53] <jrwren> a joke at my expense :(
[17:53] <Wolfger> brousch and anybody who cares: figured out my twitter.com MitM issues... Firefox was set to start session with all the tabs from previous session. Even though nothing using twitter was open, and even though I cleaned history, cache, etc, FF was somehow keeping twitter as something that needed to be loaded.
[17:53] <jrwren> i earned it by using windows and mac
[17:53] <rick_h> espeicially because I was curious how snap-l would move to respond given that any response would be WM specific
[17:53] <rick_h> and thus make your point a bit more
[17:53] <Wolfger> changed FF to start with blank page, problem magically gone
[17:54] <rick_h> if you ditch the cmd line you really can almost say ubuntu/osx/win7 is a DE
[17:54] <rick_h> all a matter of what apps you use install and how you get to them
[17:54] <snap-l> Um....
[17:55] <snap-l> There's fundamental differences to how linux / osx / win7 attack things under the DE layer
[17:55] <snap-l> That was mostly my joke. :)
[17:55] <rick_h> right, but if you take out cmd line, you're stuck at the DE layer
[17:59] <snap-l> And if you take out the DE layer, you have a brick
[18:00] <rick_h> :)
[18:00] <brousch> no, you have a cloud app
[18:01] <jrwren> you mean chromeos?
[18:01] <rick_h> yea, I was wondering when that would come up
[18:09] <snap-l> ttp://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0
[18:09] <snap-l> Bah: http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0
[18:10] <snap-l> Let's try that again: http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/oldies-but-goodies.do
[18:16] <jrwren> wtf is in ssh the definitive guide
[18:17] <rick_h> I've got that one
[18:17] <rick_h> I can bring it to CHC
[18:17] <rick_h> good stuff on how ssh works, tricks and tips, building complex network setups over ssh
[18:24] <jrwren> weird
[18:26] <tjagoda> I loved the Programming Perl book
[18:26] <jrwren> got a python version?
[18:27] <jrwren> imma have to become python guru pretty quick... i verbally accepted job offer doing python.
[18:27] <jrwren> not sure why I have not got paper yet.
[18:27] <snap-l> Learning Python or Programming Python
[18:27] <rick_h> jrwren: learning python isn't what you want
[18:27] <jrwren> those books USED TO SUCK
[18:27] <snap-l> Both have had major rewrites
[18:27] <rick_h> yea...that's true
[18:28] <jrwren> dive into python will get me the sweet sweet details?
[18:28] <snap-l> And yes, learning python was a deathmarch before the rewrite
[18:28] <snap-l> Dive Into Python is old
[18:28] <jrwren> no 2.7 update for dive into?
[18:28] <rick_h> man, I've read a lot of python books, but can't think of one that I'd heartily recomment
[18:28] <snap-l> and the python 3  rewrite is pretty offputting
[18:28] <rick_h> recommend
[18:28] <jrwren> oh wow, 2004
[18:28] <jrwren> rick_h: that is what I'd guess.
[18:28] <rick_h> jrwren: yea no he went py3
[18:28] <jrwren> i'll just read the docs :)
[18:29] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, I mean python really is more passed via looking at docs and existing code
[18:29] <snap-l> jrwren: If you want to borrow a copy of Learning Python, LMK
[18:29] <rick_h> I learned a lot figuring out how other tools worked like pylons/pyramid, nose, etc.
[18:29] <rick_h> I'd suggest getting the new cookbook when it comes out next week (hopefully it's on time)
[18:30] <snap-l> That's really the best way to learn
[18:30] <rick_h> that should be a gold mine, but again might be more py3, but still ideas apply
[18:30] <brousch> what about python the hard way? that seems to fit jrwren
[18:30] <jrwren> yeah, i might be on 2.4 for all I know :)
[18:30] <rick_h> ugh, I hope not
[18:30] <snap-l> brousch: That seems pretty basic
[18:31] <rick_h> actually wow, checking my kindle collection very little python. I guess I did learn more via paper books
[18:32] <rick_h> jrwren: gold: http://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-David-Beazley/dp/0672329786/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-6
[18:33] <rick_h> and http://www.amazon.com/Python-Standard-Library-Example-Developers/dp/0321767349/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-11
[18:33] <tjagoda> I still use Linux in a Nuthsell on a regular basis
[18:33] <tjagoda> "WTF Was that command?"
[18:34] <rick_h> yea, those two + the coookbook would be my suggestions if one were to ask
[18:34] <brousch> anything beazley should be good
[18:34] <rick_h> and reading a ton of code. no wonder python is often self taught, not a great book really
[18:34] <jrwren> i just skimmed learn python the hard way... its super basic.
[18:34] <rick_h> but the essential ref is something I still grab sometimes
[18:34] <jrwren> i'd not consider someone knowing python having read it :p
[18:35] <brousch> i haven't actually read it yet
[18:35] <rick_h> not looked at that, no metaclasses fun? :)
[18:36] <jrwren> nope.
[18:36] <jrwren> not even list comprehension!
[18:36] <rick_h> ?!?!?!
[18:36] <snap-l> I didn't like Python The Essential Reference
[18:36] <rick_h> that can't be, you can't write a book on python without generators, iterators, comprehensions
[18:36] <jrwren> inorite!
[18:36] <rick_h> snap-l: no?
[18:36] <brousch> what is python without list comprehensions?!
[18:37] <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it seemed a little too... sterile, perhaps?
[18:37] <rick_h> it's very much a reference, but killer especially when you hit stuff like logging/etc
[18:37] <jrwren> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/  I skimmed eveyr page... no generators, iterators or comprehensions
[18:37] <snap-l> That and I got rid of it when I went on my SOAP rampage.
[18:37] <rick_h> snap-l: ah, yea. I'd not use it for straight learning, but it's great to walk throughand for when you need that question answered
[18:37] <snap-l> SPOA, rather
[18:37] <snap-l> Fuck, why can't I type that
[18:37] <snap-l> SOPA
[18:38] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, meh on that ToC
[18:38] <rick_h> psh, python koans > than that "chapter" on "doing things to lists"
[18:39] <jrwren> A Byte of Python looks a bit better, more terse, but still intro... I want the advanced :p
[18:40] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, not going to find it really
[18:40] <brousch> rick_h: didn't you read an advanced python book last year?
[18:41] <rick_h> brousch: it was crazy
[18:41] <rick_h> I'm trying to find it
[18:41] <snap-l> It wasn't Expert Python, was it?
[18:41] <rick_h> no, that one is crack as well
[18:41] <jrwren> how crazy/
[18:42] <rick_h> I thought it was an apress book, I remember reading it on the kindle
[18:42] <brousch> i have lost track. is crack good or bad?
[18:42]  * rick_h checks my book folder
[18:42] <snap-l> Expert Python started off strong, and then became "here's revision control"
[18:42] <snap-l> Python Algorithms? FOundations of Python Networking?
[18:43] <jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Python-Programming-practices-distributing/dp/184719494X  Martelli's review is great.
[18:43] <rick_h> snap-l: what was that one that jumped all over the place
[18:43] <rick_h> I think you read it first and then I read it on a plane
[18:44] <jrwren> python essential references looks good
[18:44] <snap-l> Yeah, I got a review copy of it
[18:44] <snap-l> and it jumped like crazy
[18:44] <rick_h> snap-l: yea
[18:44] <snap-l> WEnt from installing Python to the hairier parts of python OO
[18:45] <snap-l> and then finished with "revision control is good"
[18:45] <rick_h> oh, think ir was Pro Python
[18:45] <snap-l> Ah, yeah, that's it
[18:45] <rick_h> hmm, I can't find it locally. Wonder where I got it from then
[18:46] <brousch> maybe it was so bad you burned it
[18:46] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/review/R2C34BGYK149PD/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=184719494X&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
[18:46] <snap-l> rick_h: I think you donated it at CHC
[18:46] <rick_h> ah, I did get it kindle format
[18:47] <brousch> ack! http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920000280.do
[18:47] <brousch> says it has been cancelled
[18:48] <snap-l> brousch: I can't say I'm surprised
[18:48] <snap-l> but I am disappointed
[18:48] <snap-l> Python Cookbook seriously needs some updating
[18:49] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, I'm stoked for that one
[18:49] <rick_h> brousch: ?!
[18:50] <rick_h> oh crap, that's not good.
[18:51] <snap-l> Wonder if they're going to relaunch it as a web site
[18:51] <snap-l> Frankly it would be better served in a non-dead-tree version
[18:51] <rick_h> guess it was a couple of years ago: http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2010/12/oreilly-python-cookbook-python-3-all.html
[18:52] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not seeing the cancellation notice
[18:53] <rick_h> yea, can't find it via google fu
[18:54] <brousch> Help me whine http://support.oreilly.com/oreilly/topics/_python_cookbook_3rd_edition_cancelled
[18:54] <rick_h> lol
[18:55] <brousch> you even get to pick  a little smiley/frowny face and there's a dedicated input for your feelings
[18:56] <rick_h> _stink_: you know Close
[18:56] <rick_h> Eyad Hailat
[18:56] <rick_h> ?
[18:56] <rick_h> bah, that came out bad
[18:59] <snap-l> I'm not sure how that could come out good. :)
[18:59] <rick_h> well somehow paste had "close " and the name in there
[19:05] <nullspace> snap-l: eh I dislike SOAP mostly because we work with a company that implemented a truly messed up configureation, inputs are strongly typed, outputs are not. Truly confusing
[19:06] <nullspace> SOAP doesn't seem like it'd be that bad if people used the tools and followed standards.
[19:06] <snap-l> nullspace: Do you just have keyword notifications for Java things? :)
[19:06] <snap-l> I meant SOPA
[19:07] <nullspace> ah yeah that just sucks period
[19:08] <nullspace> SOAP is webservices, lots of things use SOAP
[19:08] <_stink_> rick_h: naw, not well. i think he was in the CS dept at WSU when i was forst getting started
[19:09] <rick_h> _stink_: ok, got a linked in request and didn't ring a bell but saw WSU
[19:09] <_stink_> yeah
[19:09] <_stink_> i haven't accepted yet :P
[19:09] <rick_h> heh
[19:16] <brousch> ack, ugliest site evaar? http://www.pythondiary.com/blog/Feb.15,2012/django-and-jquery.html
[19:20] <nullspace> brousch: all I see is a blinding whitelight quickly followed by utter darkness
[19:20] <nullspace> kill it with fire
[19:22] <snap-l> brousch: That site is too clever by half
[19:24] <snap-l> Also reminds me that I should change my Wordpress theme. :)
[19:33] <Wolfger> holy mother of all coffee mugs... http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/ec57/?cpg=37449680&msg_id=37449680&et_rid=508488518&linkid=37449680_headline_ec57
[20:05] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[20:05] <tjagoda> Nicely done
[20:06] <tjagoda> Dimensions: 10" diameter x 6.5" tall.
[20:06] <brousch> why not just drink from the coffee pot?
[20:08] <tjagoda> Because the coffee pot is wimpy
[20:08] <tjagoda> And cannot be used as a portable sink
[20:09] <tjagoda> http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/giftsforher/e89a/
[20:09] <tjagoda> I like to drink out of that in front of camera nerds.
[20:10] <tjagoda> And then they drink out of this to threaten me back http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/eaa0/
[20:24] <snap-l> brousch: Drinking from the coffeepot is iuncivilized
[20:28] <snap-l> *headdesk* http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/134103/github-like-pull-requests-without-github
[20:34] <nullspace> some people just don't rtfm
[20:48] <snap-l> jrwren: http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html <- Python Book
[20:49] <snap-l> Which leads to http://greenteapress.com/thinkstats/index.html and http://greenteapress.com/complexity/index.html
[20:49] <jrwren> looks good.
[20:49] <jrwren> I think between all these samples http://www.dabeaz.com/generators/  and these   http://dabeaz.com/coroutines/  I'll have a good foundation
[20:50] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, there's no substitute for just playing with examples in a debugger
[20:55] <jrwren> debugger?
[20:55] <jrwren> or repl?
[20:59] <snap-l> repl, ipdb, whatever
[20:59] <snap-l> code says more in 2 lines than a book can say in two paragraphs
[21:00] <snap-l> says the man that collects PDF files like they were pez dispensers at a flea market.
[22:20] <jrwren> https://jobs.github.com/positions/940ce13a-537b-11e1-9d70-f8e808895bec   awesome
[23:07] <snap-l> http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/120215_Robocalls_FCC.pdf


[18:32] <mss_> hi
[18:32] <ace_suares1> goddauy!
[18:32] <mss_> I have been chasing down this problem :
[18:32] <mss_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-December/004911.html
[18:33] <mss_> hardy DHCP problem with  not more than 4-5 clinets booting up..
[18:33] <mss_> which I have seen in our lab ...
[18:33] <mss_> other folks have seen this problem too ...
[18:34] <mss_> alkisg here suggested a few days ago to replace cdhcp3 server with dnsmasq which I did ...
[18:34] <mss_> things are a bit better now ..though the problem still happens ...
[18:35] <mss_> I have managed to tack down exactly when the server stops /slows response to DHCP client requests ..
[18:35] <ace_suares1> sorry, can't help you on that one!
[18:35] <mss_> It happpens as sson as the first client reaches the login screen ..
[18:37] <mss_> and this starts in the kernel logs :
[18:37] <mss_> Aug 14 18:38:08 <IP_ADDRESS> kernel: Inspecting /boot/System.map-2.6.24-19-generic
[18:37] <mss_> Aug 14 18:38:58 <IP_ADDRESS> kernel: Loaded 27883 symbols from /boot/System.map-2.6.24-19-generic.
[18:37] <mss_> Aug 14 18:39:23 <IP_ADDRESS> kernel: Symbols match kernel version 2.6.24.
[18:38] <mss_> Aug 14 18:39:48 <IP_ADDRESS> kernel: Inspecting /boot/System.map-2.6.24-19-generic
[18:38] <mss_> Aug 14 18:40:13 <IP_ADDRESS> kernel: Loaded 11587 symbols from 57 modules.
[18:38] <mss_> Aug 14 18:40:38 <IP_ADDRESS> kernel: [    0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset
[18:38] <mss_> Then DHCP gets hosed ...and the remaining clients do no boot any more ..
[19:35] <nubae> mss, what does the dhcp log say?
[19:35] <nubae> in /var/log/messages I believe
[19:41] <mss_> nubae: I pated the dhcp logs at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/477
[19:43] <nubae> what options are u passing in pxe.0.cfg/default?
[19:44] <mss_> standard dnsmasq config according to /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/dhcpd-dnsmasq
[19:45] <mss_> I have not set any other special options...
[19:46] <nubae> just that dhcp is complaining about some option
[19:47] <mss_> what is this stuff going on in the kernel logs for each client and why is it so slow  ?
[19:47] <nubae> anyway, #ltsp should be able to help u better
[19:47] <mss_> thanks
[19:47] <nubae> u dont have remote logging turned on by any chance
[19:47] <nubae> ?
[19:48] <mss_> how would I do that ?
[19:49] <nubae> u'd set it in /etc/syslog.conf
[19:52] <mss_> I did not change anything from standard edubuntu install ... should it be turned off ?
[19:53] <nubae> by default yes
[19:53] <nubae> u'd really notice dhcp slowing down to almost a halt
[20:20] <mss_> nubae: if remote logging is turned off will I have this problem :
[20:20] <mss_> V
[20:20] <mss_> http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/TroubleShooting#syslogd_cannot_write_to_remote_f
[20:21] <mss_> anyway ... will try it and see how it goes ..
[20:21] <mss_> thanks
[21:29] <mosy> test


[00:00] <knome> jjfrv8, i'm done with the changelog-issue, so if you want to do a merge proposal, feel free to, and i'll try to review ASAP. i was going to be away all weekend, but now it looks like i'm be more or less available
[00:01] <jjfrv8> knome, great.  There should be an MP already there.
[00:01] <knome> oh, ok
[00:01] <knome> i'll look at that tomorrow then
[00:02] <jjfrv8> Cool.  If you approve that, I've got another one ready to push.
[00:02] <knome> you can push that as well (you can have multiple MP's)
[00:02] <jjfrv8> But I thought you said because of the entity changes that it would be too complicated to resolve conflicts.
[00:03] <knome> not "too complicated", just something that takes a bit time
[00:03] <knome> i don't want to slow you down, so just go ahead:)
[00:03] <Unit193> You can also build upon merges.
[00:04] <jjfrv8> Do you want me to delete the one that's there and do one big one?
[00:05] <knome> jjfrv8, if you have all changes in one branch, deleting the current one and proposing a new one is good
[00:05] <jjfrv8> Ok.
[00:05] <knome> and the issue with the entities was that you changed them twice
[00:06] <knome> anything that's as it was in your previous MP shouldn't bring any problems
[00:06] <jjfrv8> Well, yes, I think that's the case.  I just changed more of them as I encountered them in subsequent chapters.
[00:07] <knome> more entities or rechanged same entities?
[00:07] <jjfrv8> More entities
[00:07] <knome> doing several changes in one file doesn't create any conflict in itself
[00:07] <jjfrv8> Ok, then I think we should be good.
[00:08] <knome> i'm certain we are :)
[00:08] <jjfrv8> Good.  Then I'll just submit another MP, leaving the current one there.
[00:08] <knome> thanks
[00:08] <jjfrv8> Thank you.
[00:09] <knome> (and if there is conflicts, i'll just resolve them. that's not a gamebreaker)
[00:17] <knome> ok, i'm off for now
[00:18] <knome> hmm, one more mail
[00:28] <knome> jjfrv8, you have mail
[00:28] <jjfrv8> knome, thank you!
[00:28] <knome> no, thank *you* and welcome :)
[00:33] <knome> now i'm off
[00:33] <knome> have fun everyone!
[00:49] <Unit193> jjfrv8: Congrats!
[00:50] <Unit193> Though, may want to note: NickServ(NickServ@services.): jjfrv8 is not registered.
[00:50] <jjfrv8> Unit193, thanks.  What should I do about that?
[00:52] <Unit193> The normal thing to do is /msg nickserv register passwordhere emailaddress   then you can set it to private and enfore if you like.  It's also recommended to setup certfp or SASL in the client.
[00:56] <jjfrv8> Unit193, back in May when you and knome helped me with the bzr tutorial, you both recommended that I get set up with an irc 'screen'...
[00:57] <jjfrv8> and that we could revisit that later
[00:57] <jjfrv8> so maybe we can do that sometime?
[00:58] <Unit193> Sure!  What client do you currently use?  Are you good with a terminal?
[01:00] <jjfrv8> XChat and intermediate level, maybe.
[01:02] <Unit193> Cool, well if you want, you can use weechat, or irssi.  Pasi, Lyz, and myself all use irssi, and if you have a server/always on computer that'd be the easiest to use.
[01:03] <Unit193> http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssi/ is a great resource, I used it a lot before.
[01:03] <jjfrv8> I can look into all of those things. I don't currently have a server but could probably come up with some solution.
[01:04] <Unit193> What you'd do first is start screen by running `screen`, then you can disconnect and reconnect while leaving any applications running inside.
[01:06] <jjfrv8> Okay.  How about if I do some homework and come back and ping you with questions?
[01:07] <Unit193> Sure!  bluesabre recently started out using it too, and I'm sure any of us would be glad to help!
[01:07] <jjfrv8> Great. Thanks.
[01:10] <micahg> pleia2: you probably get a lot of perms from CC membership
[01:11] <pleia2> micahg: yep
[01:11] <micahg> skellat: what don't we have a team for?
[01:13] <micahg> oh, bugs, right
[05:50] <elfy> bluesabre: thanks
[07:23] <Noskcaj10> Are there any plans to merge the new xfce4 power manager from debian? The current version always suspends when the lid is shut in saucy. If it's not going to be merged soon i'll have to file a bug
[08:05] <ochosi> Noskcaj10: "new" xfce4-powerman? there haven't been really relevant commits in the last 12 months and no new release, so it's either debian-specific patches or different default settings
[08:05] <ochosi> (the only interesting commit imho is the dropping of the custom OSD for a normal notification)
[08:08] <Noskcaj10> I just realised it is just a debian change, it's at https://merges.ubuntu.com/x/xfce4-power-manager/
[08:09] <ochosi> Noskcaj10: if you're referring to the .patch file, then yes, it mostly imports translations and that commit i was referring to
[08:10] <ochosi> and anyway, i'd trust mr_pouit to get us the same patch-goodness if needed in ubuntu as in debian
[08:11] <Noskcaj10> ok. Then i need to find why my laptop doesn't understand the meaning of "lock screen"
[08:11] <ochosi> so you set powerman to lock instead of suspend and it still suspends?
[08:12] <Noskcaj10> both lock and "do nothing". It always suspends, sometimes without a lock, and it perma-crashes the network connection
[08:12] <ochosi> yeah, i've seen that networking issue before as well
[08:13] <ochosi> not sure what that's related to
[08:13] <Noskcaj10> It's caused by both closing the lid and leaving the laptop too long for me, i'll look for a bug after i eat some pizza
[08:14] <ochosi> have you checked whether it happens both on AC and on battery?
[08:26] <Noskcaj10> it does
[08:27] <ochosi> and it doesn't happen with debian?
[08:30] <Noskcaj10> idk, i don't even know why i'm running 13.10 on my only working PC
[08:30] <ochosi> hehe
[08:30] <ochosi> well that problem with suspend also exists on 13.04, so no worries ;)
[09:06] <bluesabre> I could probably do the merge, I'll be doing thunar sometime soon
[09:16] <knome> come on bzr!
[09:16] <knome> what is "pending merge tips" supposed to mean and how do i "resolve" that?
[09:17] <knome> oh right, i just needed a commit
[09:18] <knome> stupid bzr and bzr docs not telling me that
[09:49] <Noskcaj10> knome, bzr explorer does tell you that, if you need a workaround
[16:06] <pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-project-community-computers-in-milwaukee/ published :)
[16:13] <lderan> ooo
[17:22] <bluesabre> pleia2: awesome!
[17:23] <pleia2> very inspiring!
[17:23] <pleia2> this is why we do what we do
[17:24] <bluesabre> indeed
[17:24] <bluesabre> do we have other orgs lined up for the xubuntu at... series?
[17:24] <pleia2> knome has one
[17:25] <pleia2> looking for more
[17:25] <pleia2> so if you know of any.. :)
[17:25] <bluesabre> technically, my church uses xubuntu for the kiosks, but they are just running fullscreen flash websites, so I don't think that quite counts :D
[17:27] <pleia2> it's neat, but yeah if it's not actually using any of Xfce..
[18:31] <slickymaster_> good evevning all
[18:31] <Unit193> slickymaster_: Hello.
[18:32] <bluesabre> hey slickymaster_
[18:32] <slickymaster_> Unit193, bluesabre :)
[18:32] <slickymaster_> bluesabre, congrats on the Mugshot
[18:33] <slickymaster_> bluesabre, also thanks for replying so fast to the bug
[18:33] <bluesabre> sure thing
[18:39] <elfy> bluesabre: what do you need from me about this mugshot thing? looks like you've done a call to test it
[18:39] <elfy> hi slickymaster_
[18:40] <slickymaster_> elfy, have been trying to contact you to no avail
[18:41] <elfy> slickymaster_: I work odd hours ;)
[18:41] <elfy> I have read all you've said though
[18:41] <slickymaster_> but I saw you already are aware of what I wanted to talk with you
[18:41] <elfy> yep - how far have you got?
[18:43] <slickymaster_> I've got the test finished. I'll do what Noskcaj told me by the time I get home
[18:44] <bluesabre> elfy, I guess nothing at this point :D
[18:45] <elfy> slickymaster_: ok - so if you push it again from a new uptodate branch with your changes I'll get it done as soon as I see it
[18:45] <elfy> bluesabre: lol
[18:46] <slickymaster_> elfy, that's my plan. Let's us see if I can beat the damn Spanish witches ;)
[18:47] <elfy> lol
[18:51] <slickymaster_> got go guys, cy
[18:52] <elfy> cya slickymaster_
[19:34] <knome> pleia2, you around?
[19:40] <bluesabre> oh, pleia2?
[19:40] <bluesabre> pleia2 was around earler
[19:40] <bluesabre> not sure where pleia2 went
[19:40] <bluesabre> :D
[19:40] <knome> haha
[19:48] <pleia2> packing for trip
[19:48] <knome> aha, are you available for some time at some point?
[19:49] <JCD> cu
[19:49] <pleia2> not really, leaving here in 40 minutes then airplanes and things
[19:49] <knome> uegh, ok
[19:49] <knome> when are you around the next time?
[19:50] <pleia2> uh, july 29th? :)
[19:50] <knome> (ok for not having time now, but let's schedule some ASAP)
[19:50] <knome> awww!
[19:50] <pleia2> after cls and oscon I'm flying across the country for a wedding
[19:50] <knome> in that case, do you think you have 5minutes at some point to set up the wikipage for the article series?
[19:50] <pleia2> sure
[19:50] <knome> ok, ta
[19:51] <knome> i'll send an email to tero when we've set that up
[19:51]  * pleia2 adds to todo list
[19:51] <knome> (and please notice, in this case, they aren't really using xubuntu for all their machines, he's just promoting it on his classes and telling people to use that)
[19:52] <knome> (so some of the questions aren't appropriate as they are now, but need some tweaking - which is why i wanted to chat with you)
[19:52] <pleia2> sure, I think a variety of stories is good
[19:52] <pleia2> I figure the questions will change to cater to the org
[19:52] <pleia2> I just made them up
[19:52] <knome> heh
[23:47] <shawnb> knome, did the documentation get completely finished?
[23:48] <knome> shawnb, jack is in good progress for the 12.04 SRU to be done
[23:48] <knome> shawnb, you can always look at the current documentation and improve that though :)
[23:59] <shawnb> I think I will; when do you guys work on saucy?
[23:59] <knome> ongoing, feel free to start whenever you feel like it


[16:00] <mvo> hello
[16:01] <jhunt> hi
[16:03] <barry> hi
[16:03] <doko> hi
[16:06] <Keybuk> hi
[16:06] <cjwatson> hi, sorry I'm late, was helping out support
[16:06] <cjwatson> is Robbie here?
[16:07] <jhunt> no sign in London :)
[16:07] <mvo> he is on vacation
[16:07] <mvo> I think
[16:07]  * mvo checks the calendar
[16:07] <mvo> yep, all week
[16:09] <jhunt> Apologies for absence on behalf of ev - he's not allowed into the building (looks too much like a student clearly :)
[16:09] <mvo> sounds like a quick meeting then, half the team is on vac or strike :P
[16:10] <doko> strike?
[16:10] <mvo> (or preparing for a TV career)
[16:10] <mvo> doko: ev is out in millbank with the students
[16:10] <jhunt> he's back!
[16:10] <doko> milksop ...
[16:11] <cjwatson> ah, well in that case TBH the only thing I have to say is that we have alpha-1 next week and it would actually be kinda nice if the archive were vaguely installable
[16:11] <mvo> doko: haha - I learned a new word today
[16:11] <cjwatson> if people could look through the uninstallables list and try to poke things into workingness, that would be appreciated
[16:12] <barry> note: it's thanksgiving in the usa tomorrow so i'm out thu & fri
[16:13] <cjwatson> is anyone feeling stuck on anything?
[16:13] <doko> that's http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/natty_probs.html
[16:14] <doko> barry: no thanks before giving me python3.2
[16:14] <barry> doko: yeah, the --enable-shared bug is unrelated, so i'll commit that patch rsn
[16:15] <doko> barry: which bug number is this?
[16:15] <cjwatson> actually, here
[16:15] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[16:15] <barry> doko: http://bugs.python.org/issue10520
[16:15] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:15. The chair is cjwatson.
[16:15] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:15] <cjwatson> since we're all here anyway
[16:15] <mvo> that list does not look too bad currently
[16:16] <cjwatson> can we have a quick lightning round?  I want to make sure I'm ready to do a team report on Friday in case we end up having the release meeting after all
[16:16] <cjwatson> mvo: can you go first?
[16:16] <mvo> sure
[16:16] <mvo> slightly shorter week, friday off; apt: added apt-get changelogs and apt-get download, uploaded to natty; some merges; work on rnr-server (review, landed "make-lint" branch); software-center: bugfix, test-improvements, use native python-apt tagfile parser (quicker); synaptic: work on gtk3 branch; Vmbuilder: upload natty version (that can build natty and maverick VMs) and SRU maverick so that we can have maverick VMs on a maverick host (sic!)
[16:16] <mvo> ; Work on msttcorefonts SRU for #670629
[16:16] <mvo> (done)
[16:17] <mvo> I would have liked to talked abut vmbuilder with robbie
[16:17] <cjwatson> about who's maintaining it, you mean?
[16:17] <mvo> yeah
[16:17] <mvo> that someone should maintian it enough so that on a new release a target for that is added
[16:17] <mvo> I'm happy to do that myself if I get access to trunk
[16:17] <mvo> need to have another word with soren I guess
[16:17] <mvo> but ideally it would be someone using it more
[16:18] <mvo> I just need it for my auto-upgrade base images
[16:18] <cjwatson> ok, I'll assume that's still on your to-do list - we ought to at least be able to do that level of maintenance routinely, perhaps put it on NewReleaseCycleProcess as a reminder?
[16:18] <mvo> sounds good
[16:18] <cjwatson> jhunt: ?
[16:19] <jhunt> Half day spent on lp:#674146 (put on hold for now), plymouth
[16:19] <jhunt> investigations (including reviewing cjwatsons plymouth-upstart-bridge
[16:19] <jhunt> upstart+plymouth branches+patches), wrote Plymouth wiki page after
[16:19] <jhunt> research (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Plymouth), Fixed bug in
[16:19] <jhunt> lp:ubuntu/plymouth only to find it was fixed in lp:plymouth :-(, lots of
[16:19] <jhunt> upstart code reading and investigations (creating debug env, testing,
[16:19] <jhunt> prepping a new upstart manual page ("init-examples"), wrote a
[16:19] <jhunt> bash-completion script for upstart (to be sent to Debian via cjwatson?)
[16:19] <cjwatson> s/ via cjwatson/ in a bug report/ I think, but our packaging is sufficiently independent of Debian's AIUI that it should go in there directly too
[16:20] <cjwatson> or else put it in the upstream source ...
[16:20] <cjwatson> (but you/Keybuk know better about that than I)
[16:20] <Keybuk> packaging of bash-completion?
[16:20]  * mvo added vmbuidler to NewReleaseCycleProcess? now
[16:21] <cjwatson> I think it's usual to just have  bashcompletiondir = $(sysconfdir)/bash_completion.d \n bashcompletion_DATA = upstart  in a Makefile.am somewhere
[16:21] <cjwatson> or words to that effect
[16:22] <Keybuk> it seems that bash-completion supplies all of its completions
[16:22] <Keybuk> so it should go in there, no?
[16:22] <Keybuk> otherwise upstart would grow files for every single possible shell
[16:22] <cjwatson> um, it's mixed
[16:22] <cjwatson> but either's valid
[16:22] <cjwatson> grub ships a bash-completion file of its own; sometimes what the completions should be is tied relatively closely to the version of the software being completed, IYSWIM
[16:23] <cjwatson> I'm sure the bash-completion maintainers would take a patch if you prefer that though
[16:23] <cjwatson> anyway, let's continue
[16:23] <cjwatson> barry: ?
[16:23] <Keybuk> I prefer that
[16:23] <barry> was out sick a few days.  subversion (fixed) and vte (inprogress) ftbfs.  bug 662611 (virtualenv incompatibility). python issue 9807 to land and close today.  sbuild/schroot backporting for session keeping on build failure.  off thu & fri due to usa holiday. done.
[16:24] <barry> vte is bug 674175
[16:24] <cjwatson> barry: thanks.  (one of these days I must convert my shonky local chroot setup to sbuild/schroot.)
[16:24] <barry> cjwatson: the version in natty is very cool
[16:24]  * mvo too
[16:24] <cjwatson> my updates:
[16:24] <cjwatson> done: new grub2 snapshot, lots of upstream build fixes since I haven't done new snapshots for three months so of course it all stopped working; fixed rsyslog so installer is debuggable again; SRU catchup
[16:25] <cjwatson> todo: assemble initial blacklist for grub2-boot-framebuffer and package it somewhere; patch pilot morning on Tuesday; apparently I'm driving archive admin stuff for alpha-1
[16:25] <cjwatson> --
[16:25] <cjwatson> (so this means I will be sweating over hot CD images next week, and grab me this week instead if you want me for anything non-trivial :-/)
[16:25] <cjwatson> doko: ?
[16:25]  * barry is patch piloting on monday
[16:25] <doko> spent most time on an internal project, plus openjdk-6 security updates, merges, submit bug reports to debian, armel fix, upstream binutils and gcc fix, prepare python3.2 update (before thanksgiving)
[16:25] <doko> --
[16:26] <doko> toolchain armel fixes are these
[16:28] <cjwatson> doko: thanks.  are we targeting python3.2 as the only python3 version in natty?
[16:28] <barry> +1
[16:29] <doko> cjwatson: I'm trying, yes. will make it the default when 3.2beta1 is release
[16:29] <doko> d
[16:29] <cjwatson> doko: *nod*
[16:29] <cjwatson> Keybuk: ?
[16:33]  * cjwatson guesses the Millbank student mob has got hungry and eaten Keybuk
[16:33] <apw> Keybuk is in the wrong os .... and doing a presentation
[16:34] <cjwatson> oh, the tech talk
[16:34] <cjwatson> of course
[16:34] <cjwatson> ok, aob?
[16:36] <cjwatson> I'll take that as a no
[16:36] <cjwatson> thanks all
[16:36] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[16:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
[16:36] <barry> thanks
[16:37] <mvo> thanks
[19:01] <highvoltage> Anyone present for Edubuntu meeting?
[19:25]  * mhall119 is late
[19:26] <mhall119> and I have nothing to report
[19:27]  * alkisg is too late :D
[19:28] <highvoltage> seems like most were :)
[19:28] <highvoltage> what the heck, I'll post a small summary anyway.
[19:29] <highvoltage> * Current daily builds are broken due to a broken dependency in sabayon (broke with sync from debian that has packaging differences) (should be fine tomorrow again)
[19:29] <highvoltage> * For alpha 1 things are kind of shakey since natty isn't really in a fantastic state atm but it's the first alpha so it's completely expected
[19:30] <highvoltage> (alpha 1 is scheduled for 2 December)
[19:31] <highvoltage> hmm, that's actually all that comes to mind :)
[19:32] <highvoltage> besides a blog post on ltsp fat clients that I'll post a bit later (just going to show it to stgraber to make sure that I don't say anything completely wrong in there) before posting it
[19:32] <highvoltage> it answers some of the same questions we get over and over on the edubuntu-users list :)
[19:35] <mhall119> I haven't checked the daily lately, have they landed gnome 3 yet?
[19:36] <mhall119> last time I checked, it wasn't even in the natty repos
[19:37] <highvoltage> mhall119: gnome-shell is currently broken, gnome3-session almost kind of works, there are big parts there but it's incomplete
[19:37] <highvoltage> there's also edubuntu-council renewal,
[19:37] <mhall119> okay, I'll give it another try, as long as dconf/GSettings is there and the panels/desktop are using it, I should be able to get started
[19:38] <highvoltage> I'm not 100% sure what the exact outcome will be. the CC will re-elect current council (minus Richard who is stepping down), and we only had mgariepy being nominated so we'll wait on the CC for further instructions


[00:07]  * Obsidian1723 night all...
[01:53] <Takyoji> To my understanding, the point of OOXML was pretty much "We can have an 'open' format too!", correct?
[01:54] <Takyoji> Just for the sake of "competing" against OpenOffice, AbiWord, and other word processing solutions that store in true open formats?
[02:31] <rlaager> Takyoji: I've read it was about remaining viable for customers (like governments) that require open formats.
[02:33] <Takyoji> Also, another question: Would PDF be considered an open format?
[02:42] <rlaager> I have no idea. I suppose it'd depend on the specific regulations.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: well, XML formats are better technically, and MS Office does use use that now, but making it open and touting that was pretty much just to combat ODF.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> For the reason rlaager said - the surge in openness requirements.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> And yes, PDF is an open format.
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> The only thing PDF lacks is good free implementations of the creation tools, but the format itself is plenty open.
[03:00] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:00] <Takyoji> how long ago was the PDF format opened?
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> uhhhh, good question
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> July 1, 2008
[03:12] <Takyoji> So, considerably "recent" then
[03:17] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[03:18] <Takyoji> I still get a laugh that MS still hasn't complied to their own [revised] standard yet. :P
[03:20] <tonyyarusso> indeed
[03:21] <Takyoji> and OOXML still defies the definition of an open standard due to having no public implementation yet to my understanding.
[03:22] <Takyoji> Too bad it simply can't be voided for the time being.
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> Right - this is why it's important to include the phrase "with a full, free & open implementation" when proposing rules btw.
[03:25] <Takyoji> Haaah, too bad I didn't see this a few days ago: http://blog.whatwg.org/html6-plan
[03:25] <Takyoji> Oh, that was a couple years ago
[03:28] <Takyoji> otherwise I was suggesting the idea of AT LEAST having the ODF plugin for MS Office throughout or school district, and of course, was pretty much ignored over the idea.
[03:31] <Takyoji> Prior to that I suggested it would be handy if OpenOffice was installed, and the reply was pretty much laughter and saying "OpenOffice takes forever to open!". But if you go to any workstation in the school, ANYTHING takes minutes to open due to poor maintenance and setup..
[03:32] <Takyoji> If anyone ever has kids, never have them go to Faribault Public High School.
[03:32] <Takyoji> A majority of the teachers have all their children go to other schools in the area.
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> See, I'd know better than to live in Faribault ;)
[03:35] <Takyoji> :P
[03:37] <Takyoji> That's the annoying thing about youth; usually people don't care about what you say, or don't consider young individuals an authentic source of information.
[03:38] <Takyoji> moreso: people don't take you seriously much at all
[03:40] <Takyoji> as I may have said previously, some systems in the district still even have IE6
[03:40] <Takyoji> And I believe the way of just resolving it in their standpoint is of just buying new desktops.
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> I think you're just talking to the wrong kinds of people - I've been taken seriously since I was like 5.  But then, I'm odd.
[03:44] <Takyoji> The district technology coordinator (whom is the boss of the district technologists, and whom has a lower technology knowledge than the district technologists) does not reply to anyone's emails, then there's three district technologists, all of whom I know personally.
[03:45] <Takyoji> Anyone else in the district pretty much knows just how to open a web browser and MS Office.
[03:45] <Takyoji> http://www.faribault.k12.mn.us/departments/informationtechnology.aspx
[03:46] <Takyoji> Second person on the list is simply just a secretary; not much with technology involvement otherwise
[03:50] <Takyoji> Thus my dilemma, unless if someone has a reasonable idea.
[03:50] <tonyyarusso> Go over their head.
[03:50] <tonyyarusso> Try a senator if you must.
[03:51] <Takyoji> Just not sure how I would approach that.
[03:53] <Takyoji> otherwise I may have to try further with the support of teachers; because I certainly know of many teachers that are annoyed over various factors.
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> However you want :)
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> State senators are very open to conversation, or at least mine is.
[04:02] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Your state senator is special
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2011
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: well yes :)
[04:04] <sparklehistory> Most are open but not quite that open
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Ignore that - already deployed :)
[05:25] <h00k> tonyyarusso: I totally meant to check that seed to see how they're doing and I haven't
[05:25] <tonyyarusso> h00k: not many hits so far
[05:25] <tonyyarusso> There's a good chance it will only get a few, but I didn't want to be unprepared if there was more interest.
[05:26] <h00k> tonyyarusso: understandable
[05:26] <h00k> tonyyarusso: all except the .wav copy is seeding
[05:27] <h00k> which is alright
[05:33] <exigraff> oh, this is where.. gotcha.
[05:33] <exigraff> tonyyarusso, does that tracker give you up/down stats?
[05:36] <tonyyarusso> exigraff: I don't think so?  Honestly haven't looked.
[05:36] <tonyyarusso> or know where to look
[06:04] <exigraff> well, if it helps, we've uploaded ~450mb of the stuff
[06:05] <tonyyarusso> excellent
[21:50] <Takyoji> Yay for the search engine default revert.
[21:58] <_diablo> lol, how so?
[21:58] <_diablo> link?
[21:58] <Takyoji> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-1004-drops-yahoo-will-use-google.html
[21:59] <Takyoji> And booo to the Digital Economy Bill in the UK: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/extremeinternetl
[22:00] <_diablo> that hasn't passed, right?
[22:00] <_diablo> so they gave up the money? or what?
[22:01] <Takyoji> This morning: http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/04/08/132210/Digital-Economy-Bill-Passed-In-the-UK
[22:04] <_diablo> fuck
[22:04] <_diablo> sorry, probs not okay to say that here, but it's totally justified :(
[22:05] <Takyoji> I think however that it may have one more step to completion, but not entirely sure.
[22:05] <Takyoji> Welcome to the impending internet dark ages.
[22:06] <Takyoji> The US will probably be next
[22:13] <_diablo> we already have the dmca
[22:13] <_diablo> I'm graduating from college this semester and seriously considering moving to iceland
[22:18] <Takyoji> and also the recent ruling against the FCC as well
[22:20] <kermit> the dmca was a big win against copyrights
[22:21] <kermit> Takyoji: what's that bill od?  i'm not gleening anything from the wikipedia page.
[22:21] <kermit> od/do
[22:24] <Takyoji> kermit: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/extremeinternetl
[22:24] <Takyoji> and http://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/disconnection/against-deb
[22:28] <kermit> i doubt that video is accurate
[22:28] <kermit> or, well, by 'if anyone claims'.. i'm sure that means via affadavit
[23:17] <Takyoji> I wonder what common free culture coalitions there are in the US..
[23:18] <kermit> Takyoji: #freeculture would know
[23:20] <Takyoji> alrighty
[23:50] <_diablo> kermit: in what possible way was the dmca a big win against copyrights?
[23:50] <kermit> _diablo: it clarified what you can and can't get away with
[23:51] <_diablo> kermit: but it made it so broad that you effectively can't do anything
[23:51] <_diablo> fair use was enlarged, but only to further the strength of copyright enforcement
[23:51] <kermit> i thought it worked like.. you can do anything until someone gives you a proper formal notice that you're infringing
[23:51] <_diablo> Takyoji: kermit, if you're interested in this, look up the book "against intellectual monopoly". it's written by 2 pretty smart economists.
[23:52] <_diablo> kermit: right, but there's no punishment for sending out too many of those letters. so they send them all over the place and scare ppl into submission
[23:52] <_diablo> because once it's sent, if you continue, the hammer gets smacked down
[23:52] <kermit> if you like economists, ##economics is really well run and has 50 people
[23:53] <_diablo> hmmmm, joining
[23:53] <kermit> this looks like a good book
[23:53] <_diablo> it's really good.
[23:53] <_diablo> i'm an econ major writing my senior thesis on FLOSS actually :)
[23:54] <Takyoji> Ooo
[23:55] <kermit> _diablo: the letters it suonds like you're referring to arent formal take down notices
[23:55] <kermit> _diablo: just the spam they send kids
[23:55] <kermit> i'm fairly sure there is punsihment for a formal take down notice
[23:55] <_diablo> kermit: really? I might have read the boingboing article incorrectly, but I thought that was what doctorow was writing
[23:56] <_diablo> and I know no countersuits have been won by any out of country corporations
[23:56] <_diablo> but gtg, off to class


[23:43] <tsimonq2> cyphermox, cjwatson: I'm building an ISO using live-build and I'm having trouble loading a preseed file by default. My question is twofold; how do I debug a preseed file, and how do I properly load a preseed file onto an ISO using live-build?
[23:43] <tsimonq2> The base ISO I am using is Xubuntu 18.04.2.
[23:44] <tsimonq2> This is for work; I need to get a deliverable out, but it's nice "icing on the cake" to have the installation process completely preseeded.
[23:45] <tsimonq2> I'm not able to find documentation on either of my questions anywhere.
[23:48] <tsimonq2> I'll continue to debug this, but if anyone has pointers, that would be great.


[06:55] <elkbuntu> omfg... ubuntu muslim edition finally happened?
[06:55] <tonyyarusso> oh really?
[06:55] <Madpilot> link?
[06:57] <elkbuntu> ubuntume.com
[06:58] <crimsun> neat
[06:58] <crimsun> that it includes multiverse software by default is a bit of a headache (!), but neat otherwise
[06:59] <elkbuntu> i am very much *not* looking forward to this hitting Sounder :-/
[07:00] <tonyyarusso> heh, might be interesting
[07:00] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, sure. not necessarily in a CoC kind of way, however
[07:01] <Madpilot> interesting in the sense of the famous Chinese curse, perhaps :)
[07:01] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Do MLs get moderated ever?
[07:01] <Madpilot> I predict a few of sounder's better-known quasi-trolls will be very excited about this
[07:02] <tonyyarusso> how did you hear, btw?
[07:04] <tonyyarusso> @elkbuntu
[07:06] <crimsun> tonyyarusso: most are, actually. We just don't proclaim our presence loudly ;)
[07:06] <tonyyarusso> crimsun: If figured most would be, but wasn't sure if the really big ones could be
[07:39] <elkbuntu> roflmao @ the new eler
[08:25] <beuno> elkbuntu: ping
[08:25] <elkbuntu> beuno, pong
[08:25] <beuno> hey there, it's the first time I can actually get a hold of you  :D
[08:25] <beuno> just wanted to see if you could help me a bit get this UWN situation back on track
[08:26] <beuno> I'm not 100% sure what to do, or how much I should do
[08:26] <beuno> I've been helping out with it for months, just it suddenly seems I'm the only one pushing forward, and I'm not used to being "editor"
[08:26] <elkbuntu> im not really in a time situation to do so at the moment either. best thing would be to try contact corey aka burgundavia
[08:27] <beuno> yes, he basically said "go, have fun, run it by me before publishing"
[08:27] <beuno> no biggie though, I'll keep working on it and bugging people I can get a hold of
[08:27] <beuno> thanks
[08:27] <elkbuntu> gah. i really dont have the spare time at the moment to tutor you in something i've never done myself :-/
[08:28] <beuno> np, I'll figure it out
[08:28] <beuno> I think it's more of a "I'm not sure how many decisions I should take" then actuallt knowing "what to do"
[11:35] <beuno> lionel: :D
[11:36] <lionel> hi beuno :)
[11:36] <lionel> I noticed you were there just after adding you in my jabber contacts :)
[11:37] <beuno> I can multitask sometimes, hehehe
[11:37] <beuno> I just replied to your email
[11:38] <lionel> cool
[11:38] <beuno> but basically I'm waiting for Corey to wake up (literally I think)
[11:38] <beuno> and I'm sure mrevell can help me put some presure on the whole thing  ;)
[11:38] <lionel> Oh cool
[11:38] <mrevell> hmph?
[11:38] <mrevell> beuno: How can I help?
[11:39] <beuno> I got UWN #30 up to a stage I think it can be published, and I want to get that out ASAP so we can start working on "current" news
[11:39] <beuno> aka #31
[11:41] <beuno> but I need someone with more "authority" then myself to take a peak, and then move the strings necesary to get it out in the wild  :)
[11:51] <mrevell> beuno: right, well, I have no authority but I'll happily take a look :)
[11:52] <beuno> mrevell: great, I appreciate it
[11:52] <beuno> I'll nag Corey all day then
[12:05] <lionel> beuno: sorry, I was disconnected
[12:05] <beuno> lionel: np, maybe you can help proof-reading UWN #30 too
[12:05] <lionel> beuno: I will read it again later today
[12:05] <lionel> what do we need for #31 ?
[12:06] <lionel> we are missing articles I think :)
[12:06] <beuno> lionel: I haven't started making a "todo" list, but an easy thing to start with would be "In The Press"
[12:07] <beuno> basically search for articles about Ubuntu on different sources, and write up a small summary
[12:07] <beuno> but, from March 1st til today
[12:07] <beuno> google news usually behaves pretty well
[12:08] <lionel> hehe :)
[12:08] <beuno> I don't want to open the UWN 31 wiki yet thou, might create confusion
[12:08] <lionel> I agree
[12:08] <mindspin> http://www.heise.de/open/artikel/85411
[12:08] <mindspin> its german and needs translation ;-)
[12:09] <mindspin> basically its about canonicals business model
[12:09] <mindspin> and the linspire deal
[12:09] <beuno> mindspin: maybe a link to it, with a small summary in english wouldn't be bad
[12:09] <beuno> can you write it up and email it to me?
[12:09] <mindspin> sure
[12:10] <mindspin> mail addy?
[12:10] <beuno> :)  thanks mindspin
[12:10] <beuno> argentina@gmail
[12:10] <mindspin> saved
[12:12] <lionel> :)
[12:16] <beuno> anyway, gonno head off to the office
[12:16] <beuno> I'll be back in an hour or so
[05:34] <beuno> jenda!
[05:35] <jenda> beuno!
[05:35] <jenda> :)
[05:35] <beuno> how are you?
[05:35] <jenda> tired, cold...
[05:36] <jenda> great :)
[05:36] <beuno> are you back already?
[05:37] <jenda> yp
[05:37] <jenda> yup
[05:37] <jenda> cut it a bit short ;)
[05:38] <beuno> I imagined  :D
[05:38] <beuno> did you have to go back throu bangladesh?
[05:38] <jenda> O_O
[05:39] <jenda> Nope
[05:39] <jenda> That's teh other way ;)
[05:39] <beuno> aah, sorry, I was under the impression you had to go back through there  :/
[05:41] <jenda> :)
[05:41] <jenda> Not at all - flew from Colombo to Mumbai, then Moscow and home.
[05:42] <beuno> well, I'm sorry the trip didn't work out as planned
[05:42] <beuno> but I'm glad to have you back  :p
[05:44] <jenda> :)
[05:45] <jenda> It was a great trip all the same
[05:45] <beuno> nothing  :(
[05:47] <jenda> I'll upload them :)
[05:48] <beuno> hehe, no hurries
[05:51] <beuno> jenda: are you ready to get your crafty hands to work?   I need help getting the UWN published  :D
[05:51] <jenda> O_O
[05:51] <jenda> umm
[05:52] <jenda> I hope no is an option :)
[05:52] <jenda> I didn't even wash yet ;)
[05:52] <beuno> I'm not picky...   :p
[05:52] <jenda> hahaha
[05:52] <beuno> np, I have a meeting in 30 minutes anyway
[06:13] <MenZa> jenda: welcome back :D
[06:13] <jenda> thx :)


[07:54] <ogra_> there is a regression in libsoup that keeps network-manager from passing autopkgtests (via friends), could some archive admin please override that so that network-manager can go in ... we urgently wait for the included fix for touch images
[08:32] <cjwatson> ogra_: done
[08:33] <ogra_> yep, thanks, seen
[08:33] <cjwatson> well, you asked in multiple channels, so you get replies in multiple channels for the benefit of anyone else who might otherwise go to take action on it :)
[08:35] <ogra_> yeah, well, i asked generically here in case you are off today :)
[08:45] <Laney> I think I've fixed friends too
[08:45] <Laney> new libsoup added more annotations to some functions
[08:46] <ogra_> nice !
[08:49] <Laney> so vala could now infer the length and knows what type the array should have
[08:49] <Laney> (bytes)
[10:43] <darkxst> infinity, remember we demoted cinnamon a while ago?, well muffin probably needs the same treatment!
[17:26] <rtg> can I get some binaries for intel-gpu-tools NEW'ed ?
[19:28] <bdmurray> infinity had mentioned making quantal unsupported in LP (after something?) but it hasn't happened yet, is that something still holding it up?
[20:18] <slangasek> bdmurray: is this just about flipping the switch in LP?
[20:21] <slangasek> bdmurray: I don't know of any reason we couldn't mark it unsupported, but I see that I don't have access to do this in LP
[20:25] <bdmurray> slangasek: ah, infinity had mentioned flipping the switch after the last kernel goes in
[20:25] <slangasek> ah, right
[20:25] <bdmurray> is that done?
[20:25] <slangasek> I know there were some delays due to regressions being found
[20:25] <slangasek> and it looks like we still have a kernel in quantal-proposed
[20:26] <bdmurray> ah, okay its not a huge deal. someone had just nominated a bug for quantal.
[20:32] <ScottK> slangasek: I seem to recall infinity saying he wanted the kernel in updates as one final gesture before stuff got archived.
[20:32] <ScottK> oh.  bdmurray  said that already.
[21:32] <superm1> ScottK: you released one of the packages for bug  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1290460 but not the other
[21:32] <superm1> can you release the second one too?
[21:32] <ScottK> superm1: It wasn't marked verified.
[21:32] <ScottK> I can if it is.
[21:33] <superm1> i thought https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1290460/comments/18 indicated it was confirmed
[21:34] <superm1> but maybe i'm mistaken, tgm4883 ^
[21:35] <superm1> yeah between that and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1290460/comments/16 it sounds like both together positive test
[21:38] <ScottK> OK.
[21:40] <ScottK> superm1: Done.
[21:40] <superm1> thanks
[21:41] <superm1> can you copy binaries forward to utopic for both too?
[21:41] <superm1> or do we need to redo the upload for utopic?
[22:20] <ScottK> superm1: better to just upload. I'm away from my computer and can't do it now.
[23:47] <infinity> bdmurray: Yeah, we should be denying all Q SRUs.  It's just that kernel I'm waiting on, since the work's already been done anyway.
[23:49] <bdmurray> infinity: it was a bug task nomination not an SRU
[23:51] <infinity> bdmurray: Tomayto, tomahto.


[00:26] <stas> ping newz2000
[00:27] <stas> pleia2: try newz2000
[00:27] <pleia2> thanks stas
[00:29] <stas> hopefully with that fix, the new updated theme will be pushed :)
[00:30] <stas> fsck I always miss the right target for merge requests
[15:24] <MTecknology> heh... I thought planet.ubuntu.com used PlanetPlanet... not Venus..
[17:18] <stas> +1 for venus :)
[17:18] <stas> newz2000: make the merge when you have time :)
[17:22] <newz2000> stas: it will probably be on Monday, I'm not technically here this week. ;-)
[17:22] <stas> newz2000: oh, cool
[17:23] <stas> btw, thanks for pushing our theme, really nice job
[17:23] <stas> and the gotchis look awesome, couldnt find a better place for them by myself :)
[17:24] <newz2000> cool. Jono said I have to increase their size. Going to have to think about that one abit.
[17:25] <stas> hmm, we can add some js for zooming them, or maybe it can be done only with css
[17:25] <stas> seen something like that once
[17:27] <newz2000> If you think up anything clever, let me know. I'm going to step out for now.
[17:28] <stas> ok, keep in touch