[00:34] <OvenWerks> eylul: no worries I took as long answering. I think most of your concerns are minor. I am not sure what you mean by profile and how it is different from preset. I am not attached to one word or the other.
[00:34] <eylul> hey
[00:34] <eylul> profile and preset are same thing
[00:34] <eylul> :)
[00:34] <OvenWerks> eylul: by minor, I mean in general I don't care onbe way or the other
[00:34] <eylul> *nods*
[00:35] <OvenWerks> so changes are welcome.
[00:35] <eylul> :)
[00:35] <eylul> usability is something I care about :D
[00:35] <OvenWerks> Basically if a widget remains the same name and uses the same callback name they cam be changed quite easily
[00:36] <OvenWerks> my own sw is always easy to use ;)
[00:36] <eylul> I.. might need to shuffle it around a bit more than that
[00:37] <eylul> *sheepish smile* but I'll try to stick to what you have sent. (You did send a .glade file over email right? I wasn't dreaming that part)
[00:37]  * eylul has had interesting few days
[00:38] <OvenWerks> eylul: right now I am most interested on getting the behind the scenes how do I do this figgured out. for example I can change governor by opening the file in w and dropping the governor in, but with boost I have to pipe the value through tee to get it to work ??!!??
[00:38] <eylul> :D
[00:39] <OvenWerks> I seem to be getting email from the list hours later and out of order.
[00:39] <eylul> odd...
[00:39] <eylul> :/
[00:39] <eylul> is it possible your email is filtering them?
[00:40] <eylul> although this time I did have a small hiccup as well
[00:40] <OvenWerks> I don't filter anything. Maybe up stream, but they do eventually show up
[00:40] <eylul> I mean on server side.
[00:40] <eylul> but ok
[00:42] <eylul> OvenWerks: I am off to sleep tonight but I will read this more carefully tomorrow, and send you the UI sketch. (it should be easier, now that I am not struggling with glade anymore)
[00:43] <OvenWerks> Ok, I think tabs are easier to do than popups
[00:43] <OvenWerks> I think a dropdown like you have could control the tabs if it would be better... and not show the tab labels
[00:44] <eylul> err
[00:45] <eylul> you mean control of the tabs?
[00:45] <OvenWerks> Having everything on one page will be too much.
[00:45] <OvenWerks> yes.
[00:45] <OvenWerks> Ardour uses buttons to control the tab with tabs turned off.
[00:45] <eylul> oh
[00:45] <OvenWerks> I personally like the tabs
[00:46] <eylul> so what it looks like to the user is that the content of the box changes from say: showing the status to editing it
[00:46] <eylul> although behind the scenes it is a secret tab switch?
[00:46] <OvenWerks> something like that. for switching from editor to perferences to mixer
[00:47] <eylul> I am not against the tabs, but I still think for editing and adding new presets pop-up might be less confusing, but let me see - wait
[00:47] <eylul> mixer?
[00:47] <OvenWerks> Ardour has a mixer yes.
[00:47] <OvenWerks> It seems the question is what is in the tabs.
[00:47] <eylul> oh you are talking about ardour
[00:48] <OvenWerks> was
[00:48] <eylul> I agree with having different settings on different tabs and not having a giant wall of of setups and drop downs.
[00:49] <eylul> I am a bit less sure in terms of if we can fit the editing of presets into chosing a preset to use
[00:49] <eylul> I'll really say preset editing should be its own window
[00:49] <OvenWerks> eylul: I originally had governor set right together with use this setting for boot indented.
[00:49] <eylul> although
[00:49] <eylul> hmmm
[00:50] <eylul> Ovenwerks, I need you rephrase that last bit :)
[00:50] <OvenWerks> I just figure save what is there as a preset
[00:50] <OvenWerks>  everything is editing... any change is an edit.
[00:51] <eylul> then how does the user know if their change saved. and to which preset did it save to
[00:51] <OvenWerks>  some of them are boot time only, but many of them may be right now settings.
[00:51] <OvenWerks> they hit the save button and a dialog asks for a name
[00:51] <eylul> I know a lot of programs uses that paradigm (and especially if pop-ups are hard to do that makes sense) but it is important that we make a UI that clarifies when is something edited, when is something saved, and what is differing from the current saved state of a preset
[00:51] <eylul> *nods*
[00:52] <eylul> ok hang on let me sketch some of this stuff, so that I remember it in the morning
[00:53] <OvenWerks> there could be a load preset button too. I have already put a current preset label in and the preset drop down might have something else in it till the user hits load, then it becomes current
[00:53] <eylul> ok I think I understand what you are saying.
[00:54] <OvenWerks> But normally when the user selects from the drop down that becomes cureent without a load button.
[00:54] <eylul> that MIGHT not be a problem
[00:54] <eylul> its more the issue of: they load a preset and modify it..
[00:54] <eylul> then it becomes visually confusing
[00:55] <OvenWerks> However, the tings have been setup so far, boot preferences are set on exit, on the fly setting happen at button click.
[00:55] <eylul> *nods*
[00:55] <OvenWerks> as soon as one thing is changed the current preset becomes "USER"
[00:56] <eylul> ummhmm
[00:56] <eylul> that works
[00:56] <eylul> OR
[00:56] <eylul> <Preset Name>(modified)
[00:56] <OvenWerks> Maybe the text space that shows the current preset should be editable so the name can be changed there... but if the user hits save they are asked for a name.
[00:57] <eylul> *nods*
[00:57] <eylul> we do want them able to modify an existing preset too through
[00:57] <OvenWerks> Sure (modified) works better
[00:57] <eylul> ok so what I have so far is
[00:57] <OvenWerks> yes then they save as the same name.
[00:58] <OvenWerks> so we read system profiles first, then user profiles and use the last read of any two with the same name
[00:58] <eylul> main tab, with boot options and current presets, then tabs where you can edit each preset
[00:58] <eylul> well ideally 2 profiles shouldn't have same name, program shouldn't allow
[00:58] <OvenWerks> So you are taking the top part and making it a tab too?
[00:59] <eylul> I am thinking tabs should be on top
[00:59] <eylul> oh goodness, hang on
[00:59] <OvenWerks> eylul: if there are any preshipped presets the only way for a user to over write them is if there is two with the same name.
[01:00] <eylul> ahh I see
[01:00] <OvenWerks> this is the way system menu editing is done BTW
[01:01] <eylul> that's not encouraging :D
[01:01] <eylul> (I am jesting, that makes sense actually
[01:03] <OvenWerks> SO you are thinking the tabs should be at the top and file stuff at the bottom?
[01:03] <eylul> let me just draw this
[01:09] <eylul> and I crashed inkscape :D
[01:12] <OvenWerks> In many ways it would be nice (from my POV) to get things working first. That is to be able to control all the things we need to. I am adding just basic separation so far. After it is working then shuffle things around. I am going to at least finish the boost stuff at this point... Setting it at boot. Then if style is more organized I can switch looks before continuing.
[01:16] <OvenWerks> I am thinking that you may be saying that the user expects things to be where they left them on reboot. So it would not be needed to have two buttons for each thing.
[01:16] <OvenWerks> for example cpu governor might show:
[01:17] <OvenWerks> CPU Governor |dropdown showing current governor|[X] keep this setting
[01:18] <OvenWerks> All in one line
[01:30] <OvenWerks> eylul: so after some thinking... I think one tab should be "Basic UbuntuStudio setup" This should include things that we normally set up as default but which someone installing our metas will not have. This basically includes the two original items, in audio group and able to use RT.
[01:31] <OvenWerks> Then system tweaks (or settings) would have things like CPU governor and Boost that may not only be useful to audio but other things as well.
[01:32] <OvenWerks> then an Audio tab, a graphics tab and a video tab? or does it need to be more specific
[01:33] <eylul> I think what I have is similar
[01:33] <eylul> but not quitte same
[01:33] <eylul> I am still not sure 100% tablet stuff should be even in same controls, but yeah.. sorry
[01:33] <eylul> this takes forever to draw.
[01:35] <OvenWerks> :)
[01:37] <OvenWerks> The tablet shouod have an applet in the settings menu.... on the other hand I would prefer to see this one in settings rather than system too.
[01:48] <eylul> OvenWerks: http://ubuntustudio.azbulutlu.org/wp-content/uploads/controlUI.png
[01:50] <eylul> on one hand wacom tablet tray applet is a sorely needed feature, and on one hand having it as part of ubuntustudio controls: it is a control, and integral one (its more than just settings because having presets again is useful in this case) on other hand its complicated
[01:50] <eylul> anyhow it is 5am here
[01:50] <eylul> I should go to sleep
[01:51] <OvenWerks> Yikes!
[01:51] <eylul> yeah I was heading to sleep when you caught me
[01:51] <eylul> but this was a useful discussion!
[01:51] <OvenWerks> ping whenever. I will change some things and get boost to work on boot
[01:52] <eylul> awesome
[01:52] <OvenWerks> later...  o/
[01:52] <eylul> will ping you tomorrow and mail this image etc to ML too so that people can follow. gnight!!! o/


[02:09] <cornell> Hi tgm4883
[02:09] <cornell> or ... HI tgm4883_laptop
[02:09] <cornell> ;-)
[02:11] <superm1> troy_s, did you see the xubuntu usplash recently?
[02:11] <tgm4883_laptop> hi cornell
[02:15] <cornell> Got a cable plugged into the ASUS card.  I can see it Watch TV, but no sound ;-(
[02:15] <cornell> Can't seem to switch to the hauppage card.
[02:17] <tgm4883_laptop> watching live tv?
[02:17] <cornell> Right.
[02:17] <tgm4883_laptop> are you using the guide or just changing channels?
[02:17] <cornell> And I've  no sound when watching recordings.  (previously recorded)
[02:17] <cornell> Using the remote to change channels
[02:19] <cornell> Also tried the ssh -X doesn't seem to work.
[02:19] <cornell> uh-oh
[02:19] <cornell> live tv just froze
[02:19] <tgm4883_laptop> use the guide and select a channel
[02:20] <cornell> my ssh (normal) isn't responding :-(
[02:21] <cornell> rebooted
[02:22] <cornell> Logged in as me
[02:22] <cornell> Started frontend
[02:23] <cornell> master backend isn't running
[02:23] <tgm4883_laptop> ok, what are your two tuners again
[02:24] <cornell> Starting frontend again... cannont connect to backend...
[02:24] <cornell> Dang... every step forward, two back :-(
[02:24] <cornell> Hauppage 350 and ASUS
[02:24] <tgm4883_laptop> ok, well start the backend from the script
[02:25] <cornell> Did
[02:25] <cornell> No error messages
[02:25] <cornell> then started frontend... can't connect
[02:25] <tgm4883_laptop> and it's still not started?
[02:26] <cornell> ps aux says it's running.  Before frontend said it wasn't running.  Now it says it can't connect
[02:28] <tgm4883_laptop> so it's running or not?
[02:28] <tgm4883_laptop> what does the log say?
[02:29] <cornell> It's running, according to egrep, and the terminal that started it.  Where's it's log?
[02:29] <cornell> Or mysql's log?
[02:29] <cornell> ls -la
[02:29] <cornell> Sorry
[02:29] <cornell>  /var/log ?
[02:30] <tgm4883_laptop> mythtv backend log?
[02:30] <cornell> Found mythtv and mysql directories in /var/log, is that them?
[02:30] <tgm4883_laptop> sec
[02:31] <tgm4883_laptop> /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
[02:32] <cornell> At 1730 it finished recording that 70's show... who told it to do that?
[02:33] <cornell> Um... log ... last thing it says is New DB connection (1), connected to data base 'mythconverg' at host local host, running as the master server.  Then two other New DB connection's connected to database 'mythconverg' at host localhost.
[02:34] <cornell> before that Some comments about liveTV recording, when I was switching about.  You'd suggested changing channels
[02:36] <cornell> Just for g&g, I started mythtv-setup.  Window came up asking if it's ok to close the backend process.
[02:36] <cornell> ;-)
[02:37] <tgm4883_laptop> hmm
[02:37] <tgm4883_laptop> nothing looks out of the ordinary
[02:37] <tgm4883_laptop> want to pastebin say the last 100 lines?
[02:37] <tgm4883_laptop> !pastebin
[02:37] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[02:38] <cornell> Just the last 100? and may I use my pastebin?
[02:39] <tgm4883_laptop> yep
[02:39] <tgm4883_laptop> use pastebin for that
[02:40] <cornell> http://cornell.pastebin.com/m29fdd398
[02:40] <cornell> bbiab, the little one needs me
[02:43] <tgm4883_laptop> superm1, you want to take a  look at this?
[02:44] <superm1> umm.
[02:44] <tgm4883_laptop> if your busy thats cool
[02:44] <superm1> never seen such things prior
[02:44] <superm1> i'm at a loss for an answer here
[02:45] <tgm4883_laptop> lolthats what I said
[02:52] <cornell> I'm special that way...  My problems aren't normal ;-(
[02:52] <superm1> cornell, what tuner?
[02:52] <cornell> I'm guessing that would be the ASUS.
[02:53] <tgm4883_laptop> and a 350
[02:53] <cornell> And I'm wondering if the 1730 entries are from when I tried switching the cards, some one had said the Y or C cards.
[02:54] <cornell> Yes, I've a 350.  Last evening, myth switched from the hauppauge to the ASUS.
[02:54] <superm1> so which one is /dev/video0 theren?
[02:54] <superm1> then
[02:54] <cornell> Don't know why.  It was right after I installed the lircrc.
[02:54] <superm1> and perhaps didt they accidently flip
[02:55] <cornell> I'm thinking that video0 is 350...  lspci doesn't say.  How else can I confirm
[02:56] <cornell> lspci --> http://cornell.pastebin.com/m1abc104c
[02:57] <cornell> Can't start mythtv-setup...  Won't run with backend running.  Won't kill the backend, there isn't one running.
[02:57] <cornell> ;-(
[02:58] <cornell> Rebooting
[02:59] <superm1> well dmesg shows you likely
[02:59] <superm1> which is which
[02:59] <cornell> k
[03:01] <cornell> from dmesg:Initialized Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350, card #0
[03:01] <cornell> Is that what we want?
[03:04] <cornell> ps aux shows two backend entries, one the egrep and one /usr/bin/mythbackend belonging to mythtv.  So backend is running
[03:05] <cornell> mmmm
[03:05] <cornell> ?????
[03:06] <cornell> mythtv-setup started... looking at capture cards... /dev/video2 is card type MPEG-2encoder card (PVR-x50, etc...  Probed info: ASUS PVR-416
[03:06] <cornell> That don't sound right
[03:08] <cornell> video0 is card type Analog V4L capture card... probed info Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350
[03:09] <cornell> Shouldn't the card type match the probed info?
[03:09] <superm1> well i'm wondering if you are hitting the annoyance
[03:09] <superm1> of them switching back and forth
[03:10] <superm1> experiment by rebooting 2 or 3 more times
[03:10] <superm1> and see if they show up the same
[03:10] <cornell> Well but... um...  ok.
[03:11] <cornell> Now, backing out, it says, twice, card 0 (type ) is set to start on channel 2, which does not exist.  Do you want to fix these problems.
[03:11] <cornell> Yes or no?   Just hit no and go ahead and reboot?
[03:11] <superm1> well don't mind those problems.  if the cards are set wrong
[03:11] <cornell> K
[03:11] <superm1> because your just going to reboot and come back in to look again
[03:13] <cornell> Want to see the dmesg?
[03:15] <cornell> Ok.... now  video0 card type Analog V4L capture card, probed ASUS, video 2 card type MPEG-2 (PVR-x50, probed.... ASUS
[03:16] <cornell> And, from dmesg: Initialized Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350, card #0
[03:17] <superm1> okay so same as last time around
[03:17] <cornell> Rebooting
[03:19] <cornell> BTW, I went into mysql manually before, seeing it the users got screwed up.  select * from user.  There's an entry, forget the user, but the domain is some domain I've never heard of.  That doesn't seem right.
[03:19] <superm1> debian-sys-main?
[03:20] <superm1> debian-sys-maint
[03:20] <cornell> No...  I saw that one, figured it was ok
[03:20] <superm1> Yea it is
[03:21] <cornell> pgasus.imbrandon.com
[03:21] <cornell> And it's root !
[03:21] <superm1> as a user?
[03:21] <cornell> In the user table
[03:22] <superm1> that was from the build host
[03:22] <superm1> i have no idea how thta would have gotten in though?
[03:22] <cornell> Looks like the password's mine, so they can't get in with it.
[03:23] <cornell> video0 is Analog V4L, Hauppauge, video2 is MPEG PVR x50, ASUS
[03:23] <cornell> SHould I just delete these and create them again?
[03:23] <superm1> well just set the type of them appropriately
[03:23] <superm1> dont need to delete them
[03:24] <cornell> Ok... recollection says that the ASUS is an Analog V4L SO I'll set that
[03:25] <cornell> video device video2, Audio device /dev/dsp
[03:25] <cornell> Audio sampling None (?)
[03:25] <cornell> Default input Tuner1
[03:25] <cornell> VBI device empty
[03:25] <cornell> Sound right?
[03:25] <superm1> just make sure it matches the autoprobe
[03:25] <jams> superm1-  good work with the lirc-generator  it's an easy way to get started with new remotes
[03:26] <superm1> jams, you gave it a shot?
[03:26] <jams> a quick one, but yeah i did look at it
[03:26] <cornell> Audio sampling rate of none?
[03:27] <superm1> jams, yea that's the goal for it.  its not meant to be a permanent solution for the problem currently, but until the standardized namespace is done
[03:27] <superm1> it will do the trick
[03:27] <jams> i see you even added the options i was goint to suggest =)
[03:27] <superm1> to turn on and off different apps?
[03:27] <jams>  -l and -L
[03:27] <superm1> ah
[03:27] <cornell> Ok, changed.  Try watching TV?
[03:28] <superm1> yup cornell
[03:28] <superm1> hopefully better this time round
[03:28] <jams> i almost overwrote my own configs
[03:28] <superm1> well that's why it renames the old ones
[03:28] <cornell> Same messages about card 0 (type ) si set to start on Channel 2
[03:28] <superm1> go back in and make sure channel 2 exists then
[03:29] <jams> it's good work
[03:29] <jams> also glad it's in python =)
[03:29] <superm1> yea, i've started to really like python
[03:29] <jams> far to many apps are tainted by perl
[03:29] <superm1> since thats all i've coded this summer in
[03:29] <cornell> COuld not connect to the master backed server
[03:29] <superm1> that's what the control centre and the live autostart are too
[03:29] <cornell> :-(
[03:29] <superm1> cornell, check and see if it started in the backend log again
[03:29] <superm1> and if not why
[03:30] <jams> live autostart?
[03:30] <superm1> jams, its an app for configuring a mythbuntu frontend to run off a cd, but its able to save settings to a flash drive
[03:30] <superm1> so your "live frontend" can start immediately
[03:30] <jams> ah
[03:30] <superm1> if you plug the flash drive in
[03:31] <cornell> Looks like, superm1, Three DB connections, first one says starting up as the master server.
[03:31] <superm1> cornell, then try the fe again
[03:31] <cornell> k
[03:33] <cornell> Ok... terminal says trying to connect to backend server: <IP_ADDRESS>, timed out. ummm it's timing out in .001 second.  Isn't that kind of quick?
[03:33] <superm1> did your ip change?
[03:35] <cornell> Me...nope  Same Ip.  (already did an ifconfig.  mmm I was going to say ipcop agrees, but I can't connect to it :-(
[03:36] <superm1> well nmap your ip the (<IP_ADDRESS>)
[03:36] <superm1> and make sure the backend is listening on it
[03:36] <cornell> Ah... nonstandard port...
[03:37] <cornell> nmap my ip?
[03:37] <superm1> you changed the port?
[03:37] <superm1> apt-get install nmap
[03:37] <superm1> and then nmap IP
[03:38] <superm1> shows ports open
[03:38] <cornell> No... ipcop... the web console, doesn't use 80.  ipcop says mythtv's on 27 also.
[03:38] <cornell> It also seems I've some uninvited guests.
[03:38] <cornell> But ipcop config's anotherquestion.
[03:39] <superm1> try restarting the frontend process?
[03:39] <superm1> perhaps
[03:39] <cornell> ok...nmap <IP_ADDRESS>... Not shown 1695 closed ports.. ssh open http open.  That's it
[03:40] <superm1> so no mythtv on it
[03:40] <superm1> did you change the port number
[03:40] <superm1> or did you change its listening behavior
[03:40] <cornell> Did not change any mythtv ports
[03:40] <superm1> double check them
[03:40] <cornell> Actually\, haven't changed any ports
[03:40] <superm1> in the general page
[03:40] <superm1> because if nmap is saying its not listening
[03:40] <superm1> but the backend log shows it running
[03:40] <superm1> that is the most logical place to look
[03:42] <cornell> Happen to be in mythtv-setup... host address backend setup, ip addresses are right, explicit, server runs on port 6543, shows status on 6544, port master runs on 6543
[03:45] <tgm4883_laptop> how do you download a file over ssh?
[03:45] <superm1> well maybe you've gone mad then?
[03:45] <superm1> i mean you have been speaking to tgm4883_laptop a lot haven't you?
[03:46] <superm1> :)
[03:46] <superm1> tgm4883, sftp or scp
[03:46] <cornell> My input connections all list none?
[03:46] <cornell> superm1: do the ports look right?
[03:46] <superm1> yes those are right
[03:46] <superm1> cornell, you do need to set input connections
[03:46] <cornell> Thought so... perhaps changing the capture cards lost the connections
[03:47] <cornell> Scan of for channels or Fetch channels from listings source...  Don't do either?
[03:48] <superm1> zap2it right?
[03:48] <superm1> fetch
[03:48] <cornell> Right, ok
[03:49] <cornell> Umm.... how do I press the button?  HIghlight and press enter?
[03:50] <superm1> space maybe?
[03:50] <cornell> Shouldn't it be saying something?
[03:50] <superm1> not neces
[03:50] <cornell> Highlight and space... tried that.
[03:50] <superm1> could show up in the terminal behind
[03:50] <cornell> How do I know it's done?
[03:50] <superm1> you'll have channels there :)
[03:51] <cornell> Where
[03:51] <cornell> Starting channel?
[03:52] <cornell> FInished there (I think) went to channel editor... channels are there.
[03:54] <cornell> SHould I scan them?
[03:54] <superm1> no need
[03:54] <superm1> should be good to go now
[03:55] <cornell> oooh... lots of card 0 etc messages.
[03:56] <cornell> I'm not running mythfilldatabase
[03:57] <cornell> Watch tv... black screen
[03:58] <superm1> plug in the cable?
[03:59] <cornell> Black screen which takes a long time to get out of.
[03:59] <cornell> Yes, at least it was
[04:02] <cornell> Yup
[04:03] <cornell> Well... gotta go
[04:04] <cornell> Thanks much for your help...
[04:04] <cornell> Perhaps, tomorrow, I should just try installing again.
[04:04] <cornell> What do you think?
[04:04] <cornell> And, if so, from livecd or alternate?
[04:04] <superm1> well if you try installing again
[04:04] <superm1> i say wait ~1 week
[04:05] <superm1> because we'll have a brand new alpha out
[04:05] <superm1> with schedules direct support
[04:05] <cornell> k
[04:05] <superm1> and a few other fun things
[04:05] <cornell> Schedules direct support?
[04:05] <superm1> www.schedulesdirect.org
[04:06] <cornell> Replacement for Zap2it?
[04:07] <cornell> (registrations closed)
[04:07] <cornell> ;-(
[04:07] <superm1> yes
[04:10] <cornell> Tell me when I can register ;-)
[04:10] <cornell> TTFN
[04:10] <cornell> NIght all
[04:10] <cornell> And thanks much
[04:10] <cornell> And you think re-install might be a good idea?
[04:11] <cornell> LIvecd or alternate?
[04:11] <cornell> in a week
[04:12] <superm1> well if yo udont solve this by then
[04:12] <superm1> won't hurt
[04:12] <superm1> but we'll chat more tomororw
[04:12] <superm1> or so
[04:16] <superm1> troy_s, did you see this recently? http://evalicious.com/xubuntu.png
[05:54] <tgm4883_laptop> superm1, were you able to build the iso today now that the kernel can be updated?
[05:54] <superm1> Yes
[05:54] <tgm4883_laptop> sweet
[05:54] <superm1> ubiquity is a mess though
[05:54] <superm1> i've spent most of the day on it
[05:54] <tgm4883_laptop> not sweet
[05:54] <superm1> fixed most of it
[05:55] <superm1> but there is still a big annoyance left with it
[05:55] <superm1> that you can't disable pages anymore
[05:55] <superm1> with the way things changed upstream
[05:55] <superm1> or at least i can't find a good way to do it
[05:55] <tgm4883_laptop> well let me know when i need to start seeding alpha 4
[05:55] <superm1> well 0.20.2 needs to be released first :)
[05:55] <tgm4883_laptop> oh yea :)
[05:55] <tgm4883_laptop> i forgot
[05:57] <tgm4883_laptop> hopefully i will get my wireless and sound back after this update
[05:58] <superm1> i haven't updated my laptop yet to it
[05:58] <superm1> i'm a bit wary to do so right now
[05:58] <superm1> because of all these other things that need to be pushed up yet
[05:58] <tgm4883_laptop> yea, holding off on production systems is a good thing
[05:59] <tgm4883_laptop> I just use my laptop for work, nothing important :)
[06:02] <superm1> oh crap.  i've got some work to do tonight too
[06:02] <superm1> man i wish there were more hours in a day
[06:02] <superm1> i really wanted to have this ubiquity stuff sorted out
[09:45] <pretender> im getting the sound pausing or choppy every 30 second or so mythtv can anyone help.      I worked some more on it, with the help of tgm4883 and superm1.  And it's going bad to worse.  They helped me go through the settings and did manage to help get my backend back to running properly, well connecting to it anyway.
[01:13] <cornell_2> I'm thinking of just re-installing.  superm1 suggested waiting a bit, apparently there's a new alpha scheduled for next week.  I'm thinking maybe I should go ahead if just for the practice.
[01:14] <cornell_2> And wondering if I should use the livecd or alternate cd.
[01:14] <cornell_2> Any opinions, anyone?
[01:31] <romern> hello,
[01:34] <romern> i just installed ubuntu 6.06 LTS, need to know if i need to install again a new ubuntu 6.06 using the same CD to setup MythTV?
[01:34] <laga> um
[01:34] <laga> why?
[01:37] <romern> according to documentations it seems, am confused.
[01:37] <laga> why would you have to reinstall?
[01:40] <romern> I'm not sure but the instructions seem to point to another install. Shall I just proceed to install mythTV with 1st Installation?
[01:41] <laga> sure. although ubuntu 6.06 comes with an old version of mythtv
[01:46] <romern> thanks anyway
 troy_s, did you see this recently? http://evalicious.com/xubuntu.png
[04:28] <troy_s> Yeah I did.  Overkill tacky.
[04:42] <DaveMorris> superm1: mythbuntu uses fluxbox dosent it, how big is this compared to xfce?
[04:42] <laga> it uses openbox
[04:43] <troy_s> Hrm... didn't know that.  Interesting.
[04:43] <DaveMorris> openbox then, you know what the size difference is?
[04:44] <laga> DaveMorris: use apt-cache show to find out
[04:44] <DaveMorris> I was just thinking if we had room for xfce instead of openbox it'll feel more like Gnome - which IMO more ubuntu users are used to
[04:44] <laga> bah
[04:45] <laga> personally i wouldn't care
[04:47] <troy_s> DaveMorris: What was the decision to go with openbox over fluxbox?
[04:47] <DaveMorris> I joined after they had already chosen openbox
[04:47] <troy_s> Or laga on that.
[04:48] <tgm4883> It does bug me that I have to double click on the things on the desktop when it looks like I should have to single click
[04:49] <laga> tgm4883: that should be easy to fix
[04:50] <tgm4883> laga, other than that, it's functionality is fine
[04:50] <tgm4883> i think it's the mouse pointer
[04:50] <tgm4883> for the record, I prefer the double click
[04:51] <tgm4883> it's the little things like that, the mouse pointer turns to a hand and I feel I should have to single click
[05:20] <cornell_2> No opinions about installing livecd versus alternate cd?
[05:21] <laga> if you don't know the difference it won't matter i suppose
[05:32] <tgm4883> i think i prefer the alternate cd
[05:33] <cornell_2> Well, I kinda used the livecd, got screwed up, probably because I interrupted in the middle ;-)  And there's a nice wiki page going step wise through the alternate CD.
[05:34] <tgm4883> well if your going to use the guide, use the cd that comes with it.  I prefer the alternate cd just because I don't need the live env during install
[05:59] <hugolp> hi
[05:59] <hugolp> can anybody tell me wheres the txt file created in the mythtv instalation with the pasword?
[05:59] <laga>  /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt
[06:00] <laga> if you have to change it, use sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database
[06:00] <hugolp> thanks laga
[06:04] <tgm4883> laga, you should give a warning with that.  If you do things like that instead of manually changing text files, they tend to work correctly
[06:04] <laga> tgm4883: that sucks, huh?
[06:05] <tgm4883> ye
[06:05] <tgm4883> yep
[06:05] <tgm4883> It just doesn't feel like it's mine unless I break it
[06:05] <laga> heh
[06:53] <cornell_2> Well... tgm4883, in that case... my mythtv is definitely mine... cause it be broke
[07:18] <tgm4883> that superm1 is sneaky
[07:27] <laga> blah
[12:36] <cornell> Well... installing from the livecd, again.  For practice ;-)


[12:21] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix for bug #35663: Three columns too narrow for publishing history. (r3317: Christian Reis)
[12:47] <sabdfl> elmo: very good email faking fu, btw
[12:48] <elmo> sabdfl: better than the guys on d-devel@ at least
[12:48] <sabdfl> not like that debian-devel amateur
[12:48] <sabdfl> :-)
[12:48] <elmo> you can still trivially tell it's me, by looking at the headers tho
[12:48] <sabdfl> if ever there's something you think i'm not saying, i know you'll step up
[12:49] <elmo> can I fire some folks then? :-P
[12:51] <sabdfl> elmo: just don't let me fire myself accidentally, ok?
[12:51] <sabdfl> otherwise, carry on
[12:51] <elmo> rock and roll, thanks
[12:56] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  really ignore sourcecode/twisted (r3318: David Allouche)
[01:01] <sabdfl> night all
[01:22] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=jamesh]  Added a flush_database_updates call after a submission is stored to prevent cached values to cause the removal of the fuzzy flag. Fixes the #1660 (r3319: Carlos Perello Marin)
[01:27] <carlos> dilys: thanks
[02:12] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=jamesh]  Updated the status and dates of an import queue entry that was already imported and got an updated content. Fixes bug #36044 (r3320: Carlos Perello Marin)
[02:36] <Burgwork> I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!
[02:36] <Burgwork> the new bug editing is EXACTLY what I was looking for
[03:14] <NeiKeR> hallo
[03:15] <NeiKeR> how are you?
[03:16] <NeiKeR> english?
[03:16] <NeiKeR> espaol?
[03:16] <NeiKeR> parlare italiano?
[03:16] <NeiKeR> :S
[03:16] <NeiKeR> Deusch?
[03:47] <NeiKeR> lala
[03:47] <NeiKeR> i speak in spanish and in english
[03:47] <NeiKeR> alguien habla espaol?'
[04:19] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Make test_on_merge.py produce incremental output instead of buffering, and refactor karma deletion db patch into a post rollout data migration script (r3321: Stuart Bishop)
[07:06] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=lifeless]  Soyuz UI fixes and new experimental features like package-queue page (r3322: Celso Providelo)
[09:19] <lifeless> moing moin
[09:25] <stub> yo
[09:29] <lifeless> yo yo
[09:52] <lifeless> stub: I'm cherry picking 3316 into production
[10:00] <lifeless> stub ping
[10:24] <lifeless> stub - is https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadRollout current ?
[10:27] <lifeless> elmo, znarl FYI upgrading gangotri
[10:35] <bradb> matsubara: It seems like bug 36084 is happening because Fix Released bugs aren't showing up in +reportbugs. I take it your patch, revno 3312, fixes that?
[10:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36084 in malone "Reported bug list is incomplete" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36084
[10:37] <lifeless> elmo, znarl - now upgrading gandwana
[10:39] <matsubara> bradb: exactly.
[10:39] <bradb> cool
[10:47] <lifeless> gandwana upgraded
[10:47] <lifeless> we should not see these hangs again.
[10:47] <lifeless> elmo: Znarl ^^ please ping me ot stub urgently if you get another hang flagged, as it iwill indicate some other new problem, or new exposure of the same root cause
[10:52] <stub> lifeless: pong
[10:53] <stub> lifeless: Did you cherry pick SteveA's ZODB excision patch?
[10:53] <fabbione> hey guys
[10:54] <fabbione> assuming i want to do a batch processing like:
[10:54] <fabbione> - select N bugs on pkgs foo
[10:54] <fabbione> - switch all of them in NeedsInfo
[10:54] <fabbione> - add a comment
[10:54] <fabbione> who should i bug for that?
[10:54] <fabbione> (including sending emails out.. it needs to be visible to LP and users)
[10:55] <Znarl> lifeless : OK, will do.
[10:57] <bradb> fabbione: To let Malone developers know about it, filing a Malone bug is best. If you also think it's high priority, you probably want to bug mdz.
[10:57] <fabbione> bradb: i need it now..
[10:57] <fabbione> bradb: how can be done? or can you do it if i give you the info?
[10:57] <fabbione> like the bugs and the text..
[10:57] <fabbione> i don't need to do it personally in the UI
[10:57] <fabbione> i need it done somehow..
[10:58] <jamesh> fabbione: the email interface might be the quickest right now
[10:59] <fabbione> jamesh: what's the url of the email interface doc?
[11:00] <fabbione> bradb: btw.. mdz did warn you that i was going to do a lot of batch processing for X stuff a while ago...
[11:00] <fabbione> bradb: so he knows..
[11:01] <jamesh> fabbione: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc
[11:01] <jamesh> it is linked from https://launchpad/malone
[11:01] <fabbione> is it still the same old format that we discussed to death at UBZ?
[11:01] <jamesh> pretty much
[11:02] <jamesh> you don't need the "affects ..." bit for bugs with a single task now
[11:02] <jamesh> (I don't know if that change had been made back at UBZ)
[11:02] <fabbione> i don't think that helps at all
[11:03] <bradb> fabbione: Would you have used an XML-RPC interface, in this case?
[11:03] <fabbione> bradb: with Debian BTS ?
[11:04] <bradb> fabbione: I mean for doing these mass updates, are these things you are expecting to do via the web UI, via XML-RPC, or via some other method?
[11:04] <fabbione> web ui
[11:04] <fabbione> in bugzilla i would have done a specific search
[11:04] <fabbione> selected the bugs
[11:04] <jamesh> "change multiple bugs"
[11:04] <fabbione> and done all in once change
[11:04] <fabbione> exactly
[11:05] <fabbione> i can't use this email interface with blanks and stuff
[11:05] <fabbione> if i mistype one thing.. go figure the error with a 100 bugs..
[11:06] <fabbione> neither i plan to type my passphrase a 100 times for each email..
[11:07] <fabbione> can i get the result of a query out of an email?
[11:07] <bradb> not atm, unfortunately
[11:07] <fabbione> like: search source: foo with all status != Fixed* || NeedInfo
[11:07] <fabbione> ok
[11:07] <fabbione> i will need to ask mdz to get this fixed now..
[11:08] <fabbione> because it is blocking me
[11:08] <sladen> is there a way to setup relationships between bugs.  eg. NNNN depends on NNNN+1 in mesa and NNNN+2 in kernel
[11:08] <kiko> sladen, no, there are no dependency links between bugs.
[11:08] <sladen> kiko: what's the best kludge show that something is blocked by something else?
[11:08] <bradb> fabbione: Sorry for this inconvenience. Talking to mdz may hopefully help get this prioritized.
[11:09] <kiko> mmmmmm. mmmmmmmmmm.
[11:09] <jamesh> sladen: some cases where people use dependencies in bugzilla are represented better in Malone as a single bug targetted at multiple packages/products
[11:09] <fabbione> bradb: it's not an incovinience.. this is blocking X and release..
[11:09] <fabbione> kiko: what is your email? kiko@ ?
[11:09] <SteveA> stub: lifeless did so
[11:09] <SteveA> the zodb has been exorcised
[11:09] <kiko> fabbione, yes
[11:09] <fabbione> kiko: ok thanks
[11:11] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  add bug branch sample data (r3324: Brad Bollenbach)
[11:12] <mpt> sladen, the best kludge is probably to write "Fixing this is blocked by bug XYZ" at the end of the bug description
[11:13] <kiko> there is no dependency tree aar
[11:24] <ploum> Hello
[11:24] <ploum> Who must I ask to create an Ubuntu-be launchpad group ?
[11:25] <carlos> ploum: you can create it yourself
[11:26] <ploum> carlos: oh yes
[11:26] <ploum> indeed
[11:26] <ploum> just found it :-)
[11:26] <ploum> thanks
[11:29] <carlos> ploum: you are welcome ;-)
[11:30] <sabdfl> a little disturbing the way the airplane shadows flicker over the window here every three minutes as they are coming in to land
[11:35] <dilys> Merge to test/launchpad/sourcecode/sqlobject/: r=spiv Fix for bug #35952: SQLObject does not cope with single column tables. Make it cope! Includes patch and test. Super crisp and clean. (r55: Christian Reis)
[11:48] <jordi> how's that sprint going?
[11:49] <kiko> it's axing through east london
[11:49] <jordi> kiko: don't run, don't do it
[11:49] <jordi> I still have not gone out running since I came back
[11:49] <jordi> I've been ill
[11:49] <kiko> I have run every day
[11:50] <jordi> and had to attend a funeral, and other annoying stuff
[11:50] <jordi> kiko: go swimming. That would make you a real man.
[11:50] <kiko> I am swimming 4x a week in so carlos
[11:51] <jordi> not in the thames!
[11:55] <Mez> o_O
[11:55] <Mez> I really didnt know I did that much bugstuff
[12:07] <carlos> wow, I'm on the top list of contributors ...
[12:08] <ploum> carlos: wich list ?
[12:08] <carlos> ploum: launchpad's one
[12:08] <carlos> https://launchpad.net
[12:08] <carlos> look at the portlet on the left
[12:09] <ploum> wow :-) Flicitations ! (as we say in french)
[12:09] <ploum> is it the karma top 5 ?
[12:10] <carlos> jordi: I think the new karma rebalancing thing remove you some points...
[12:10] <carlos> ploum: yes
[12:11] <ploum> awesome ..
[12:12] <ploum> (as someone esle would say)
[12:12] <ploum> I'm glad that the karma is no more decreasing with time
[12:12] <carlos> We need to remove Rosetta Admins team from there.... it imports all Ubuntu's .po and .pot files so the amount of karma it gets is so high...
[12:12] <SteveA> the karma will decrease with time
[12:12] <ploum> It seems that adding an attachment to a bug is 0 karma point, unlike adding a simple comment
[12:12] <SteveA> we're just trying out some different algorithms for karma
[12:12] <ploum> The decreasing Karma is not really fun..
[12:13] <carlos> ploum: well it helps to track your current work on launchpad
[12:13] <SteveA> why do you say that ploum ?
[12:14] <SteveA> i think it is reasonable that if i did lots of work on launchpad one year, and none the next year, then that counts for less than someone who did lots of work this year
[12:14] <ploum> IMHO
[12:14] <ploum> SteveA: if you work really hard in a burst, this big burst will not be reflected on your karma after one or two months..
[12:14] <SteveA> this is true
[12:15] <SteveA> we also need to consider new contributors
[12:15] <SteveA> in a year's time, if karma is not decreased over time, then new contributors will never be able to catch up
[12:15] <SteveA> i think your point about people working in a burst of activity is a valid point
[12:15] <SteveA> and we should take this into account when looking at karma
[12:16] <SteveA> stub: what do you think about the "burst of activity" issue?
[12:16] <Kinnison> Do we apply an exponential decay, linear decay or what?
[12:17] <kiko> it is poliphasic amorphous denormalizing decay
[12:17] <stub> Linear
[12:17] <SteveA> an amorous demoralizing decay, kiko?
[12:17] <Kinnison> stub: from date of acquisition or from some date afterwards?
[12:17] <kiko> that was last week
[12:17] <irvin> kiko, is that a new mathematical formula?
[12:17] <ploum> Also, I believe that people working with Launchpad for 3 years (it's an example) must have more Karma that someone who is new... It's just experience..  But it's only my opinion. I also understand your point
[12:18] <kiko> irvin, it's just a synonym
[12:18] <stub> I don't see any way to handle 'burst of activity'. I can't conceive what is wanted - either karma sticks, or it decays.
[12:18] <ploum> "demoralizing decay" :-D
[12:18] <stub> Kinnison: From date of acquisition. Each action degrades to zero over 1 year.
[12:19] <stub> So the work you did yesterday is worth 1/365th less the next day.
[12:19] <salgado> to zero, really?
[12:19] <stub> Yes
[12:19] <stub> We can tune this of course. We don't lose information when we tweak the calculations.
[12:19] <Kinnison> stub: Right. I'll have a ponder
[12:19] <salgado> right
[12:20] <ploum> wow...
[12:20] <ploum> So after one year, all your karma is lost !
[12:20] <stub> ploum: Unless someone comes up with a better idea.
[12:20] <kiko> after one year without doing anything I think your karma is pretty much forfeit anyway, isn't it?
[12:20] <SteveA> ploum: you can start a discussion of this on launchpad-users if you wish
[12:20] <bradb> If it decays over time, it seems like something more to do with "activity" than just karma.
[12:21] <SteveA> ploum: as stuart hints at, if someone or some people come up with a better idea, we can consider that instead
[12:22] <ploum> Of course, I will think about it
[12:22] <ploum> if I have an idea, I will suggest it here
[12:22] <SteveA> well
[12:22] <SteveA> suggest it on launchpad-users
[12:22] <ploum> oh sorry
[12:22] <SteveA> the mailing list is a better place for discussion
[12:22] <ploum> thanks
[12:22] <SteveA> it allows people who don't use irc so much to still contribute
[12:23] <SteveA> and keeps the discussion archived in a better way than irc logs
[12:23] <SteveA> see the MailingLists page on the launchpad wiki site.
[12:23] <ploum> Thanks, I will do that !
[12:23] <ploum> Have a nice day
[12:23] <SteveA> yeah, you too.  take it easy.
[12:28] <Kinnison> stub: http://users.pepperfish.net/dsilvers/karmagraph.png is what I was imagining. Not sure how to implement it efficiently though
[12:29] <stub> Kinnison: It is efficient if you can define a formula f(karma_points, time_since_earned)
[12:30] <Kinnison> I may grab my TI-92 later and play with some formulae
[12:32] <stub> The relevant code is in foaf-update-karma.py.
[12:43] <bradb> sabdfl: Do you want to do that roundtable discussion during the Q & A today?
[12:43] <sabdfl> bradb: that was on...?
[12:43] <bradb> sabdfl: the issues we discussed yesterday, some or all of new date fields on bug/bugtask and invalid/wontfix
[12:44] <sabdfl> sure
[12:44] <sabdfl> good idea
[12:44] <sabdfl> ask about bugtask lifecycle reporting
[12:44] <bradb> ok
[12:44] <bradb> I also opened bugs on each of those things we discussed yeterday
[12:48] <sabdfl> nice! thanks
[01:02] <daf> we seem to be getting lots of requests for translation teams recently
[01:05] <lifeless> stub - is https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadRollout current ?
[01:06] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  get rid of one import fascist warning. (r3325: Steve Alexander)
[01:16] <stub> lifeless: yes - just updated it.
[01:16] <lifeless> thanks
[01:16] <carlos> stub: hi
[01:16] <carlos> stub: we just detected a problem with Rosetta exports cache system
[01:17] <carlos> stub: everytime we fix the export code, we need to discard any cached file
[01:17] <carlos> stub: so we will need to execute: UPDATE POFile SET exportfile = NULL, exporttime=NULL;
[01:18] <carlos> stub: after the rollout
[01:18] <carlos> stub: how could we plan this so it does not cause a problem for you?
[01:19] <carlos> we don't need to do it with every rollout, only with rollouts that change things on the export code
[01:20] <stub> I can see this happening regularly, and also needing to be done on staging. So we might need to add an extra stage to the datebase upgrade procedures for this sort of data migration thing.
[01:21] <stub> Logic could go into upgrade.py
[01:21] <Kinnison> or we could just have a patch file each time carlos fixes a bug
[01:21] <carlos> stub: so it's an argument /env variable so you activate it only when needed?
[01:21] <stub> Kinnison: Sure. But I expect that this is going to be every rollout for some time.
[01:21] <carlos> Kinnison: but the patch should be removed for next rollout
[01:22] <Kinnison> carlos: it would already have been applied
[01:22] <carlos> Kinnison: oh, right, we only execute it once on production....
[01:23] <stub> I expect the way to go is to nuke all cached files on every database upgrade, and if it causes performance issues do something more complex (which was how we approached the full text indexes)
[01:23] <carlos> stub: well, I'm fixing many issues now, but I don't think we should remove the cached exports every week...
[01:23] <stub> Although in this case, code updates could need clearing the caches too...
[01:23] <carlos> stub: ok, that works for me
[01:24] <carlos> stub: could you execute that command now on production, please?
[01:25] <carlos> I have a 450 lines .diff from a file that I just forced the cache update because it was not changed in one year....
[01:25] <stub> carlos: done
[01:26] <carlos> stub: thank you
[01:27] <carlos> Kinnison: btw your paste script has a bug
[01:28] <daf> or a feature :)
[01:28] <carlos> or perhaps it's a feature....
[01:28] <daf> ^5s Carlos
[01:28] <carlos> ;-)
[01:28] <carlos> Kinnison: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filemiyQKT.html
[01:28] <carlos> Kinnison: all those html tags are japanese characters
[01:28] <carlos> so it broke the diff
[01:29] <jamesh> carlos: that's what the web browser sent the script
[01:29] <daf> I wonder what content-type it used int he POST
[01:29] <carlos> jamesh: so it's a limitation of the service
[01:30] <daf> perhaps the paste script could do more decoding
[01:30] <Kinnison> it's so completely basic
[01:30] <Kinnison> carlos: feel free to write a better one
[01:30] <daf> carlos: did you use a web browser or utilities/paste?
[01:31] <carlos> Kinnison: I think I can live with it ;-)
[01:31] <carlos> daf: firefox
[01:32] <daf> can you do diff ... | ./utlities/paste?
[01:34] <daf> carlos: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/29466 -- did this drop-down box die with the changes to the imports page?
[01:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29466 in rosetta "Import Queue -- sorting of language dropdown" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[01:34] <jamesh> daf: you need to tell the form to post UTF-8.  Otherwise you lose information
[01:34] <carlos> daf: no, it's still there
[01:34] <daf> I'm just curious what would happen :)
[01:34] <daf> carlos: I don't see it
[01:35] <carlos> daf: follow one of the 'Edit' links
[01:35] <daf> ah
[01:35] <carlos> you need to be loged in
[01:36] <daf> yeah, I see it nowI know what he means now
[01:36] <jamesh> daf: the server sees exactly the same thing if you post "&12489;" as if you posted ""
[01:36] <carlos> daf: what format does .canonical_paste_auth have?
[01:37] <daf> "%s\n%s\n" % (username, password), IIRC
[01:37] <jordi> carlos: can you add ubuntu-l10n-co?
[01:37] <daf> jamesh: how so?
[01:38] <carlos> daf: that exactly text? (changing username and password?
[01:38] <sabdfl> CRISP AND CLEAN!
[01:39] <carlos> ok, got the format from your script... sorry, I was being lazy
[01:40] <jamesh> daf: if the page is served in an encoding that can't represent the character you type into the form, the web browser converts it to an &nnnn; character reference
[01:40] <jamesh> daf: unfortunately, it doesn't do anything special if you type "&nnnn;" into the form, so the server sees the same thing in both cases
[01:40] <daf> ah; I thought you were generalising to non-web-browsers
[01:41] <daf> it seems HTTP POST is somewhat under-specified
[01:41] <jamesh> daf: the only way around it is to tell the browser to send back the data in an encoding that can represent everything
[01:41] <daf> or just has too many crap implementations; not sure which
[01:42] <daf> oh, an attribute on <form>?
[01:42] <spiv> stub: every time I glance at http://pqm.launchpad.net/, I'm seeing a different exception... that must be one heck of a failure log you're going to get ;)
[01:42] <jamesh> generally the browser will send back data in the same encoding as the page
[01:42] <jamesh> unless you use the accept-encoding attribute on <form>
[01:42] <carlos> jordi: done
[01:42] <carlos> daf: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filerXEeD8.html
[01:42] <carlos> daf: I'm not sure what's better....
[01:43] <jamesh> IE has a quirk in its accept-encoding attribute handling though: the only value it will honour is UTF-8
[01:43] <jamesh> (which is usually not a problem)
[01:43] <daf> carlos: looks ok when I tell Epiphany it's in UTF-8
[01:44] <daf> though looks like maybe some things got mangled
[01:44] <carlos> daf: well, it's the webserver which should send that UTF-8 information ;-)
[01:44] <daf> well, it's the CGI script
[01:44] <daf> it has no idea what encoding the content is in
[01:46] <jordi> carlos: thanks
[02:10] <lifeless> Znarl: can we have a bigger SMTP limit on balleny please:
[02:10] <lifeless>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/smtplib.py", line 677, in sendmail
[02:10] <lifeless>     raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
[02:10] <lifeless> smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused: (552, 'Message size exceeds fixed limit'<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:11] <kiko> hoho
[02:11] <kiko> pqm the whale
[02:11] <Znarl> lifeless : OK, RT away please?
[02:12] <kiko> we need an rt-bot
[02:15] <BenC> hey everyone
[02:15] <BenC> how do I delete a team from launchpad?
[02:15] <BenC> We have a duplicate kernel-team, when out actual team is ubuntu-kernel-team
[02:16] <carlos> not sure if you can merge teams....
[02:16] <carlos> stub: ?
[02:16] <stub> admin merge interface might work
[02:17] <kiko> you can't merge teams yet
[02:17] <kiko> but we will do that rsn
[02:17] <kiko> matsubara is the man with the plan
[02:17] <BenC> can anyone use some extra powers to just get rid of kernel-team? :)
[02:18] <kiko> BenC, mmmm, you'll find this unbelievable, but not easily without merging.
[02:18] <kiko> it's not going to take forever, it shouldn't be complicated and I've planned the work
[02:18] <BenC> ok, thanks
[02:18] <kiko> sorry bout that
[02:19] <BenC> np, I didn't even notice it existed till mdz pointed it out
[02:19] <stub> BenC: kernel-team is aparently the Debian Kernel Team
[02:19] <BenC> no, it's "Ubuntu Kernel Team", and me as owner
[02:19] <BenC> debian kernel team is debian-team
[02:19] <BenC> err, debian-kernel
[02:20] <stub> hmm...ui bug...
[02:21] <BenC> we should out karmalize everyone! :)
[02:21] <stub> teams don't get karma. people get karma.
[02:21] <stub> (well... they shouldn't and they won't next landing)
[02:21] <BenC> ah
[02:22] <BenC> sweet, I've got a lot of karma
[02:35] <Kinnison> how often is karma recalculated?
[02:35] <Kinnison> and does adding a comment when changing a task not count as adding a bug comment?
[02:47] <fabbione> holy cow!
[02:47] <fabbione> BenC: i just noticed our karma :)
[02:47] <BenC> how much do you have?
[02:47] <fabbione> a bit more than 43K
[02:48] <BenC> damn, I'm only at 27k :)
[02:48] <fabbione> i am getting closer to Kamion :)
[02:49] <BenC> is there a page of the top karma?
[02:50] <fabbione> don't thjink so
[03:02] <daf> Karma:  226041 \o/
[03:03] <daf> bug triage ftw
[03:16] <daf> https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam:
[03:16] <daf> "Your name as you would like it displayed throughout Launchpad. Most people use their full name here."
[03:19] <jamesh> the Dafydd Harries team
[03:19] <daf> indeed :)
[03:52] <kiko> cprov, sleep?
[03:52] <cprov> kiko: could not talk with Kinnison yet
[04:00] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  make navigation components be used for xmlrpc requests. (r3326: Steve Alexander)
[05:13] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: Finish the implementation of MirrorManagement. Mainly the prober script and a lot other fixes. r=spiv (r3327: Guilherme Salgado)
[05:18] <matid> Hi, is Launchpad being updated recently? I've noticed something wierd happening to karma like increasing enormously...
[05:19] <kiko> yeah, there was a change in the karma policy
[05:19] <kiko> don't worry too much because the actual karma events are still there
[05:19] <kiko> we are just tweaking how it is calculated
[05:19] <kiko> (so it is reversible and changeable)
[05:19] <matid> Yeah, I know
[05:19] <matid> But is new karma system temporary or is to be permanent?
[05:20] <matid> I mean the way they calculate it
[05:20] <mpt> matid, it will be changed again but will settle down over time
[05:20] <mpt> just like PageRank
[05:20] <matid> Ok
[05:21] <matid> Because right now I have over 1200 points for bug management even though I did like 2 or 3 bug reports ;)
[05:22] <matid> Anyway, thanks for info
[05:37] <bradb> bradb@oxygen:~/canonical/malone-bzr-integration $ utilities/pgmassacre.py launchpad_ftest_template
[05:37] <bradb> You are not worthy. User postgres only.
[05:40] <jamesh> haha
[05:40] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  reenable testImportKeyRing and testSetOwnerTrust tests (r3328: James Henstridge)
[05:44] <carlos> bradb: is that your magical script to have make schema work always?
[05:45] <bradb> carlos: No script, hand-made.
[05:45] <carlos> ;-)
[05:45] <lakin> Anyone know how many new bugs are reported per day (against ubuntu and it's packages) ....  even better would be the number of bugs reported without a package, but within ubuntu?
[05:45] <bradb> Maybe I'll try and fix the Makefile later.
[05:56] <seb128> hi
[05:56] <seb128> bradb, jamesh: could you import bugzilla.ubuntu #7714 ?
[05:56] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 7714 in gtk+2.0 "Change default invisible character for GtkEntry" [Normal,New]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7714
[05:58] <bradb> seb128: jamesh is picking up the task of importing the rest of the bugs from Bugzilla in
[05:59] <seb128> yeah, we exchanged some mails about that some weeks ago
[05:59] <seb128> but that has still not happened afaik
[05:59] <bradb> indeed. he seems confident about being able to make it happen today.
[05:59] <seb128> and I'm sort of waiting on some import for work stuff ...
[05:59] <kiko> can anyone remind me what the pending issue was?
[05:59] <seb128> ah, nice
[06:00] <jamesh> seb128: sorry, but I didn't get round to doing the import (I was waiting on some input from others, and then dropped the ball)
[06:00] <matsubara> bradb: are you taking care of bug 33978?
[06:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33978 in malone "Advanced search page doesn't do any input validation" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33978
[06:01] <bradb> matsubara: Not during this sprint, but I know how to fix it now.
[06:01] <jamesh> seb128: that bug is on the list I generated earlier, so I'm going to look at handling them today
[06:01] <seb128> jamesh: cool, thank you!
[06:26] <elmo> ok, so how do I get history from a merged branch in bzr?
[06:27] <ddaa> "bzr log" in that branch?
[06:28] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=jamesh,kiko]  Fix bug 33342 (Please make filtering on the component possible (main, universe)) (r3329: Brad Bollenbach)
[06:30] <elmo> james    14552 94.3 25.8<PHONE_NUMBER>12 pts/4   R+   16:04  80:38              \_ /usr/bin/python2.4 /usr/bin/bzr log -l -v sync-source.py
[06:30] <elmo> oh, sorry, I missed 'in that branch'.  the problem is, I don't have access to the branch, and didn't think I would need it?  I thought history was preserved?
[06:31] <ddaa> if you do you not have the branch, you do not have it, if it is merged, its data is in your repository, but nothing says "here was a branch"
[06:31] <kiko> rock and rolly
[06:32] <ddaa> bzr has no branches, it has revisions
[06:32] <ddaa> elmo: maybe if you explained why you want to do that...
[06:32] <elmo> right, sorry, I'm not being very clear
[06:33] <elmo> I want to see the history of this one file, for the time it was in the soyuz branch
[06:33] <elmo> basically so I can determine what revision of the file, got mered into soyuz and consequently mainline
[06:33] <elmo> if that makes sense?
[06:33] <ddaa> mh... how is that different from "just give me the history of this file"?
[06:34] <jamesh> elmo: each entry in the "bzr log" output has a branch nickname, which might help you determine where the revision originated from
[06:34] <SteveA> elmo: would this be easier if you popped over to the excel to talk with the bzr guys here?
[06:34] <elmo> SteveA: excel is a 2 hour round trip minimum
[06:34] <ddaa> we'll buy you tea for your trouble
[06:34] <SteveA> you can get the buffet dinner here too
[06:35] <elmo> well, it doesn't matter, I can brute-force my way round it (check out each possible revision and compare! \o/) - I just think/hope I'm missing something obvious
[06:38] <marseillai> hi! i've report this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/36086 and i want to know if i can do something more to help ...........
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36086 in network-manager "network manager can't activate eth1 interface" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[06:38] <SteveA> marseillai: this is a bug on an ubuntu package
[06:38] <jamesh> seb128: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/36190 <- that's the bug.  I still need to fix up the dupes
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36190 in gtk+2.0 "Change default invisible character for GtkEntry" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[06:39] <marseillai> SteveA: yes it is ...
[06:39] <SteveA> so, asking in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-motu will get a more helpful response
[06:39] <marseillai> oki SteveA
[06:39] <SteveA> this channel is for discussing using launchpad.net, and developing it
[06:42] <seb128> jamesh: thank you
[06:42] <jamesh> seb128: that's 99 new bugs in.  I think that covers everything now.
[06:42] <jamesh> (not just 7714)
[06:44] <seb128> cool, thank you!
[06:57] <mdke> i just got rather confused with malone. There is a bug filed on Openoffice.org (Ubuntu) and there was a massive box which said "This bug has not been reported as occuring in Ubuntu", or something similar. So I clicked it, and it added a task just saying "Ubuntu". How many tasks should there be on each bug?
[06:57] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=jamesh]  add support contacts for products, distributions, and source packages, which will be automatically subscribed to new support requests. (r3330: Bjorn Tillenius)
[06:57] <mpt> mdke, I'm just about to send off a fix that fixes that particular error message
[06:58] <mdke> cool
[06:58] <mpt> but I don't think it fixes your particular case
[06:58] <mpt> hmmm
[06:58] <mdke> oh
[06:58] <mdke> it's bug '36121
[06:58] <jamesh> seb128: duplicates should be updated now
[06:58] <mdke> it's bug #36121
[06:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36121 in openoffice.org "crashes on more than one page" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36121
[06:58] <mpt> mdke: See, if we already know that it happens in OO.o in particular, there's no need to also register that it happens in Ubuntu in general
[06:59] <jamesh> seb128: that is, duplicates of the old bug are now duplicates of the newly imported bug, and the old bug is also a duplicate of the new bug
[06:59] <mpt> the reason you got that message is that you were looking at it from the Ubuntu-in-general URL space
[06:59] <mdke> mpt, well quite. Especially since the bug is marked "Openoffice.org (Ubuntu)"
[06:59] <mpt> We probably shouldn't show the message at all if you're looking at a distro and it's filed on a package of that distro
[06:59] <mdke> right
[06:59] <seb128> jamesh: cool
[07:01] <mpt> mdke, bug 36286
[07:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36286 in malone "Don't show "not reported here" message at distro if bug is on a distro package" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36286
[07:03] <mdke> mpt, thanks
[07:03] <mdke> while I'm here, i really like the arrows on the tasks which bring down the ability to change a bug's status
[07:04] <mdke> those should be made the standard, and the separate page for +editstatus abolished, in my opinion
[07:04] <mdke> also, sometimes those arrows are not there, no idea why not. But it would be cool if they always were
[07:05] <mdke> gtg
[07:07] <mpt> mdke, yeah, bugs have too many pages
[07:07] <mpt> we're going to do the same expandy thing for contexts other than the one you're in right now
[07:07] <mpt> i.e. all rows will expand
[07:07] <mpt> but sabdfl says they shouldn't have expanders
[07:10] <sabdfl> really teeny tiny expanders
[07:10] <sabdfl> but let's try with none, space there is precious
[07:12] <ddaa> pornlets... expansion... what kind of website is that???
[07:14] <mpt> It's precious because the page has three columns :-)
[07:16] <carlos> UserWarning: shortlist() should not be used here. It's meant to listify sequences with no more than 15 items.  There were 16 items.
[07:16] <carlos>   releases = sorted(shortlist(sprs), cmp=compare)
[07:16] <carlos> funny
[07:16] <kiko> not funny!
[07:16] <mpt> Off-by-one error
[07:18] <spiv> Clearly we need a mediumlist ;)
[07:18] <jamesh> carlos: you can set a different "expected maximum length" for shortlist
[07:18] <carlos> spiv: then we will have one case with len(mediumlist) + 1 items ;-)
[07:18] <jamesh> spiv: mediumlist() would need to check that the list wasn't too short :)
[07:19] <carlos> jamesh: not my code, I saw it on the error mailing list
[07:19] <spiv> carlos: well, that's a case for slightlymorethanmediumlist...
[07:19] <kiko> BjornT, ping?
[07:19] <BjornT> pong?
[07:19] <kiko> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileft3NVJ.html
[07:19] <kiko> all tests pass.
[07:20] <kiko> BjornT, r=BjornT much appreciated
[07:20] <kiko> SteveA, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/31589
[07:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31589 in launchpad "Attempting to set redirection_url to a tuple instead of a string in login machinery" [Normal,In progress]
[07:20] <kiko> SteveA, find time to talk about this with salgado?
[07:21] <SteveA> didn't yet
[07:21] <kiko> you should or else update the bug with a plan
[07:21] <kiko> part of the "don't block others" campaign
[07:22] <SteveA> you tell me when salgado has some free time
[07:31] <elmo> err
[07:31] <elmo> R. [  47: Adam Conrad         ]  Accepted initramfs-tools 0.40ubuntu26 (source)
[07:31] <elmo> R.     <  44: Scott James Remnant >
[07:31] <elmo> what's wrong with this picture?
[07:32] <kiko> not sure
[07:32] <elmo> two people uploaded the same version of a package, and they both got accepted
[07:32] <kiko> file a bug!
[07:33] <Keybuk> kiko: that bug has existed for MONTHS
[07:33] <Keybuk> unfortunately filing a bug on Launchpad never seems to result in a bug being FIXED <g>
[07:33] <kiko> what's the bug #?
[07:33] <Keybuk> bug 31038
[07:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31038 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "two accept messages for different udev 079-0ubuntu9 uploads" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31038
[07:33] <kiko> I'll ignore the rest of your drivel
[07:34] <kiko> I'll get it fixed as soon as cprov is back from his honeymoon, thanks for the heads-up
[07:56] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=kiko]  Added an option to force UTF-8 export for language packs. [r=spiv]  Fixed supermirror test (r3331: Carlos Perello Marin, Carlos Perell Marn)
[08:33] <jamesh> spiv: how does this look? https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filesUOyLk.html
[08:56] <LaserJock> kiko: did you get my (Jordan Mantha) email with a list of packages to add motuscience to the initial bug contact list?
[09:01] <kiko> LaserJock, yeah, I did, I'm just terrible with email this week (sprinting), will address next week.
[09:01] <LaserJock> kiko: no problem, my email was buggy so I just wanted to make sure you got it
[09:01] <kiko> yeah, got it no worries
[09:02] <LaserJock> cool
[09:52] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=lifeless]  Remove redundant bzr_push_root_url config value, use branches_root instead. (r3332: Andrew Bennetts)
[10:23] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=kiko]  port the bug listings to the two column layout template, so that the navigation moves to the left (r3333: Brad Bollenbach)
[10:30] <jordi> Kinnison: are you around the conf?
[10:30] <jordi> Kinnison: can you ping carlos for me?
[10:31] <jordi> ah well
[10:46] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=stub on db patch, trivial]  rename BugBranch.fixed_in_revision to BugBranch.revision_hint (r3334: Brad Bollenbach)
[11:10] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: r=BjornT Remove IRemoteBugTask marker interface; it deoptimizes BugTask._init() and can mostly be replaced with a property (r3334: Christian Reis)


[18:59] <sil2100> o/ just a heads up: I am not fully around, as I'm distracted by life™
[18:59] <rbasak> o/
[19:00] <seb128> hey
[19:01] <teward> rbasak: i'm here, but i'mma make you pay for my coffee this time
[19:01] <bdmurray> o/
[19:01] <rbasak> Here you go: ðµ
[19:02] <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[19:02] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:02:43 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:02] <rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:02] <rbasak> kanashiro to update our wiki documentation with respect to our agreed packageset creation criteria (done)
[19:03] <rbasak> sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[19:03] <rbasak> teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:03] <rbasak> rbasak to add schopin to core-dev
[19:03] <rbasak> rbasak to announce schopin's successful application
[19:03] <rbasak> ^ mine are done
[19:03] <teward> carry mine over.
[19:03] <teward> just never enough time in the day/week
[19:03] <rbasak> OK
[19:04] <rbasak> #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[19:04] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[19:04]  * genii 's ears perk up for a moment
[19:04] <rbasak> #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:04] <meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:04] <rbasak> I think that's all the actions?
[19:04] <rbasak> Since we have no applications today...
[19:04] <rbasak> #topic Long-term action items (do not need to be mentioned in regular meetings)
[19:04] <teward> * rbasak to send teward all the coffee
[19:05] <rbasak> Is anyone available to take any of these?
[19:05] <teward> that's missing :P
[19:05] <bdmurray> I am not
[19:05] <rbasak> In particular, the automated packageset stuff could do with some coding (rather than meeting attendence) attention
[19:06] <rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[19:06] <rbasak> #info No recent ML activity
[19:06] <rbasak> #topic Open TB bugs
[19:06] <rbasak> #info
[19:06] <rbasak> There are currently no open bugs.
[19:07] <rbasak> #info There are currently no open bugs.
[19:07] <rbasak> #topic AOB
[19:07] <rbasak> AOB from anyone?
[19:07] <seb128> speaking about packageset, I think we ended up not doing any refresh before the LTS right?
[19:07] <rbasak> I guess not
[19:07] <seb128> L_aney replied to my questions on the list with details but I never found the time to digest that and do something about it
[19:07] <rbasak> I've on occasion manually added packages that are obviously correct
[19:08] <rbasak> Yeah it's not really trivial :-/
[19:08] <seb128> does anyone understand how that works better than me to work on doing a refresh?
[19:08] <seb128> if not I will try to read L_aney's reply again and figure out what the changes listed are like they are
[19:09] <seb128> I wonder if we should just go with it or if that's buggy and needs some sort of fixing though
[19:11] <rbasak> I don't think anyone currently on the DMB does understand it in detail. I roughly understand what it does, but that's it.
[19:11] <teward> ^^ that's about right
[19:11] <seb128> :-(
[19:11] <teward> i don't think anyone really understands the tooling and it's probably much overdue for a rewrite, etc.
[19:11] <teward> but nobody has the time for it
[19:11] <rbasak> Right
[19:11] <seb128> k, so more targetted question
[19:11] <seb128> I'm interested to see the desktop set refreshed to include new things we had over the recent cycles
[19:12] <rbasak> I'd like to see it refactored to Python set arithmetic, and then we could easily have tests for specific cases that need fixing manually.
[19:12] <seb128> should I just try to add those individual item in a first time? do we have a review process of some sort for such changes?
[19:12] <rbasak> But, I'm not volunteering, so that's just a suggestion.
[19:13] <rbasak> seb128: please do! There's no review process - we just ask each other as we feel appropriate.
[19:13] <seb128> would be nice, but seeing how the carry over items already kept beeing carried over again and again I doubt a more complex project is going to do better
[19:13] <seb128> rbasak, ok, thanks, will do
[19:13] <rbasak> Really it's the packageset changes that you push that you're taking responsibility as a DMB member for IMHO.
[19:13] <rbasak> And the tooling is just a way of helping with that.
[19:13] <rbasak> Thanks Seb!
[19:14] <seb128> thanks!
[19:14] <seb128> that was all from me
[19:14] <rbasak> Oh one sec
[19:15] <rbasak> You mean add the packageset packages manually, rather than working on the tooling?
[19:15] <rbasak> I think that's fine for you to just do as well, but maybe leave a note to devel-permissions@ to explain what changes you made?
[19:16] <rbasak> In other words, I'm fine with you using your judgement to decide that packages should be in the desktop packageset, but please leave a record of what you decided on the ML.
[19:16] <seb128> right, well I will read L_aney's email again and see if I can figure out something better
[19:16] <rbasak> Sure. Thanks!
[19:16] <rbasak> Any other AOB?
[19:17] <seb128> but if I don't find the time to work on that I will go the easy way and suggest the changes to fix the desktop set to match what we current provide
[19:17] <rbasak> +1
[19:17] <rbasak> Thanks all!
[19:17] <rbasak> #endmeeting
[19:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 19:17:40 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-06-13-19.02.moin.txt
[19:18] <seb128> thanks!
[19:18] <kanashiro> sorry folks, got a power outage here :/ it got back now


[05:35] <Kilos> o/
[20:26] <osama_> hey
[20:26] <pavlushka> hey
[20:26] <pavlushka> how are you?
[20:26] <osama_> can anybody help me in regisetring my irc name?
[20:27] <pavlushka> and what's up?
[20:27] <pavlushka> sure
[20:27] <osama_> im good. what about you?
[20:27] <osama_> nothing just a little codre
[20:27] <osama_> code
[20:27] <pavlushka> "/msg nickserv register your_password your_email"
[20:28] <pavlushka> you dont have to repeat the password here, just once
[20:28] <osama_> okay
[20:29] <pavlushka> and check your mail to verify the nick
[20:29] <osama_> My XChat is unable to connect to freenode.
[20:29] <pavlushka> nick / irc name
[20:29] <pavlushka> so how you are here?
[20:29] <osama_> from webchat.freenode.net
[20:31] <pavlushka> what xchat is saying?
[20:31] <osama_> i think its trying to connect with ipv6 address thats why its failinbg
[20:33] <pavlushka> join #xchat and report the problem, they might give you a solution.
[20:33] <pavlushka> or an workaround.
[20:35] <pavlushka> or you can try some other clients, if you think that might solve your problem.
[20:36] <osama_> other clients are working perfectly
[20:36] <pavlushka> I mean other irc clients.
[20:38] <osama_> yes the other irc clients are working perfectly
[20:39] <pavlushka> so you just use them and register your nick, that's it.
[20:40] <pavlushka> the commands are the same in every client.
[20:40] <pavlushka> almost
[20:43] <pavlushka> and you can change your nick to anyone you like by just typing in the chat "/nick the_nick_you_like"


[00:01] <bac> salgado-afk: i tried to review your branch but didn't get far.  i tried running the branch referenced in the MP but +login-openid does not work on that branch.  I then tried grabbing your loom branch but got bzr errors.
[00:03] <salgado-afk> bac, you should be able to try it out by merging from bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~salgado/launchpad/lp-as-openid-rp-for-ec2
[00:04] <salgado-afk> in that branch the +login page uses OpenID, so +login-openid doesn't exist there
[00:06] <bac> salgado-afk: got the branch
[00:07] <bac> salgado-afk: running the new branch i still don't see +login-openid
[00:08] <bac> salgado-afk: so, i'm confused as to what your two different branches do.
[00:08] <salgado-afk> bac, +login-openid doesn't exist anymore -- in that branch I've already switched the +login page to use OpenID
[00:09] <salgado> the branch you're reviewing just adds the OpenID provider, and the other one changes +login to use the OpenID provider
[00:10] <bac> salgado: and neither support the URL you listed in the MP -- +login-openid?
[00:11] <salgado> bac, the latter one used to, but I moved it over the existing +login
[00:11] <bac> salgado: ok, i think i understand now.
[00:12] <bac> +login on the branch you posted a second ago tries to work.  i need to add testopenid.lp.dev to /etc/hosts now to see it really work
[00:12] <salgado> yeah, forgot to mention that, sorry
[00:18] <bac> no biggie
[00:22] <bac> salgado: missing cert
[08:27] <jtv> Who's free to review an RC/CP branch?  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-512698/+merge/18124
[08:42] <jtv> flacoste, are you free to review a re-roll candidate?  It's just backing out another branch.  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-512698/+merge/18124
[08:42] <jtv> I've never backed out a branch before, so would like to be sure I get it right.
[08:46] <flacoste> jtv: looking
[08:47] <jtv> thanks!
[08:50] <flacoste> jtv: looks good
[08:56] <jtv> flacoste: thanks...  I can't explain the conflict, so you'll notice that's the one part I didn't back out.  Seemed safer; somebody else may have started using the same JS module.
[14:25] <al-maisan> jtv: hello there! Are you still reviewing?
[16:15] <al-maisan> hello EdwinGrubbs or allenap : would either of you be willing to review the branch listed in the topic?
[16:15] <allenap> al-maisan: I'll do it.
[16:15] <al-maisan> allenap: thank you!
[16:25] <al-maisan> back in a few minutes..
[16:27] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs, allenap: Let me know when you have a chance, just want to have a short pre-implementation chat about a trivial bug
[16:27] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: I'm available
[16:28] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: I'm looking at bug #118609
[16:28] <mup> Bug #118609: "List related bugs" doesn't work on hosts other than bugs.launchpad.net <trivial> <ui> <Launchpad Bugs:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/118609>
[16:29] <jamalta> First, I wanted to see what the suggested implementation would be. Adding +bugs to the link works as expected, but would that be the best solution? Or should the link go to the bugs sub-domain instead?
[16:29]  * EdwinGrubbs checking
[16:31] <jamalta> Secondly, would a test for that bug just check if the link for "List related bugs" is pointing to +bugs or the bugs subdomain (depending on the implementation taken)?
[16:32] <jamalta> Only issue I see with using +bugs is that the link in the side menu is not active
[16:36] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: hmm, it seems that the root of the problem is that going to http://edge.launchpad.net/~bjornt/+assignedbugs does not redirect you to bugs.edge.launchpad.net so the canonical_url() creates a link to edge.launchpad.net instead of bugs.edge.launchpad.net
[16:37] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: So the solution should be to instead redirect the original URL to bugs.launchpad.net?
[16:37] <jamalta> I had skipped that as a solution as it resolved correctly :) But seems fair enough
[16:38] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: I think so. I'm looking up where the link is defined now.
[16:39] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: Well the sidebar menu is in lib/lp/registry/browser/person.py
[16:40] <jamalta> But the only way I know to get to that page is by clicking the "Bugs" tab which correctly moves you to bugs.launchpad.net, in which case all links will work correctly.
[16:40] <jamalta> I was assuming that the use-case would be if the user typed the URL manually instead of following a link, although I could be very wrong.
[16:40] <jtv> al-maisan: hi! sorry, long break, but yes.
[16:41] <al-maisan> jtv: no problem, allenap was so kind to take a look at the branch in question.
[16:41] <jtv> allenap: sorry for leaving you alone for so long.  There was nothing in my earlier day... what needs doing?
[16:41] <al-maisan> jtv: do you mind if I review yours tomorrow morning .. my day is drawing to a close.
[16:42] <jtv> al-maisan: not at all!
[16:42] <al-maisan> jtv: thanks!
[16:42] <allenap> jtv: Don't worry, I started after Edwin today; I was out this morning.
[16:42] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: it looks like the best fix will be to change Link('', text, summary) to Link('', site='bugs', text, summary)
[16:43] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: Ah, okay
[16:45] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: That makes a lot of sense, I should add site='bugs' to all of the bugs link, though, right?
[16:46] <jamalta> All the links within that class
[16:47] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: It's not absolutely necessary, since those urls don't overlap with urls in other domains, but it would make it more consistent.
[16:48] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: Right, that's why I wanted to consider that
[16:49] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: Last question would be about testing
[16:50] <jamalta> I'm assuming I need to write a test for this bug, right?
[16:50] <jamalta> If so, should I simply pull out the link and make sure the URL is "bugs.launchpad.dev..."?
[16:50] <al-maisan> allenap: sorry for bothering you but I corrected two comments; this may make it easier to read the branch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/363970/
[16:50] <jamalta> I can't find any tests that deal with that link specifically
[16:52] <allenap> al-maisan: Cool, thanks for letting me know.
[16:52] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: that should be sufficient. You can add that test to lib/lp/registry/stories/xx-person-bugs.txt
[16:52] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: thanks so much! I'll get working on that then :)
[17:00] <allenap> barry: Out of interest, do you know if argument unpacking - i.e. def foo(a (b, c)): ... - is deprecated, generally frowned upon, or jolly good stuff?
[17:01] <barry> allenap: generally frowned upon, surprising to many users, and (not sure about this) maybe gone in python 3?
[17:01] <allenap> barry: Cool, thanks.
[17:02] <barry> np!
[17:02] <allenap> barry: Yes, actually, it's a SyntaxError in 3.
[17:02] <barry> allenap: cool, that's what i thought.  thanks for checking it!
[17:36] <jamalta> allenap: since Edwin is now out to lunch, would you care to review an MP for me? It'll be fun, I promise! :)
[17:37] <allenap> jamalta: I'd love to, but I won't get to it until tomorrow; it's nearly my end-of-day here. I can take it, or you could ask tomorrow's OCR.
[17:39] <jamalta> allenap: alright that sounds good.. thanks :)
[17:39] <allenap> jamalta: Which one? OCR or me? :)
[17:41] <jamalta> allenap: waiting for another reviewer
[17:41] <jamalta> or waiting for you
[17:41] <jamalta> whichever comes first :)
[17:41] <jamalta> I have no problem waiting, heh
[17:42] <allenap> jamalta: Okay, cool. Just to be clear, it's for bug 118609 right?
[17:42] <mup> Bug #118609: "List related bugs" doesn't work on hosts other than bugs.launchpad.net <trivial> <ui> <Launchpad Bugs:Confirmed for jamalta> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/118609>
[17:42] <jamalta> allenap: correct
[17:43] <allenap> jamalta: Actually, it's short, I'll do it now.
[17:44] <al-maisan> allenap: are you done with the other branch by any chance?
[17:44] <jamalta> allenap: Alright, thanks!
[17:44] <jamalta> It is pretty short, maybe 10 lines changed ;)
[17:47] <allenap> al-maisan: I hope to have it done in the next 15 minutes.
[17:47] <allenap> jamalta: Do you need someone to land that branch for you?
[17:47] <al-maisan> allenap: great, thanks!
[17:48] <jamalta> allenap: well, yeah i guess so :)
[17:48] <jamalta> i always get confused at that question..
[17:48] <jamalta> do you ask because some people land their own branches?
[17:48] <jamalta> i'll fix the description in the test, thanks
[17:49] <allenap> jamalta: Well, only some people have permission to submit the branches to PQM, which is what actually lands the branches on devel. I can land it for you. Can you either email me when it's ready, or ping me in the morning?
[17:49] <jamalta> allenap: ah ok, i get it
[17:50] <jamalta> now is ok with me, as long as you have time for it
[17:51] <jamalta> i fixed the doctest per your suggestion
[18:09] <allenap> al-maisan: Wow, your branch has a lot in it. I'm not finished yet, but http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/364018/ has my review so far. I've just got to TestMultiArchJobDelayEstimation, and I'll finish it in the morning.
[18:10] <al-maisan> allenap: OK .. that's fine .. have a nice evening.
[18:10] <allenap> al-maisan: And you, and sorry for not getting it all done.
[18:10] <al-maisan> allenap: no problem .. I understand, it's quite a big branch.
[18:14] <leonardr> edwin or allenap, can you review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/generate-multiversion-collections/+merge/18153 ?
[19:34] <sinzui> Edwin-lunch: allenap: I am jumping the queue because I have a branch that address the timeouts when creating a release
[19:50] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: is it the release-timeout-bug-513321 you want me to review
[19:50] <sinzui> yes
[20:19] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: r=me. I wonder why we don't have an architecture for optionally queueing up notify() calls and processing them later.
[20:20] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta, leonardr: do you still need a review?
[20:20] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: you mean "What happened to rabbitMQ"? I agree this is needed. This was a very rude surprise for me
[20:20] <leonardr> edwingrubbs: yes, please
[20:20] <leonardr> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/generate-multiversion-collections/+merge/18153
[20:21] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: well, these are all internal messages, so they could easily be queued up in a db table by pickling the objects involved.
[20:25] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: no allenap reviewed the branch, i believe it has to be landed still, though.
[20:25] <jamalta> i think allenap ran short on time, i'm not sure where that is at this point
[20:26] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: since there was just a rollout, non-critical branches probably won't be able to be landed until Monday.
[20:26] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: sounds good to me, thanks
[20:27] <EdwinGrubbs> jamalta: I can do it for you, but you should probably ping me on Monday so I don't forget.
[20:27] <jamalta> EdwinGrubbs: will jot that down on my calendar, thanks :)
[20:27] <jamalta> and thanks for the help earlier
[20:27] <jamalta> it's fun to learn so much from such trivial bugs :)
[20:29] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: correct: Our struggle is that since we do not have that infrastucture, I need to proposed schema changes, land model changes, and isolate these on staging. Regardless of the labour, this this a 5 week fix and few users will see it for me to get good feedback :/
[20:39] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: Can I resubmit my proposal against the correct branch? for an RC I should make it clear that I want to merge into db-devel
[20:40] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: and the diff will be very small
[20:41] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: yes.
[20:43] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/release-timeout-bug-513321/+merge/18160
[20:43] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: done
[20:53] <sidnei> an, there we go
[20:54] <sidnei> anyone up for a lazr-js review?
[21:10] <intellectronica> sidnei: sure, i'm happy to take it
[21:10] <sidnei> intellectronica, awesome. it's pretty trivial actually. let me find the url
[21:12] <sidnei> intellectronica, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sidnei/lazr-js/module-config-uses-min
[21:14] <intellectronica> sidnei: i'd start the tuple on line 20 of the diff on the next line. your call but i find this a bit weird to read
[21:15] <sidnei> intellectronica, good catch.
[21:15] <intellectronica> sidnei: no other comment. patch looks great
[21:15] <sidnei> intellectronica, cool. is lazr-js still using pqm?
[21:16] <intellectronica> sidnei: i think so, yes
[21:16] <sidnei> intellectronica, ok. i have to find the majik incantation again *wink*
[21:17] <intellectronica> sidnei: and confusingly the trunk branch is called 'toolchain'
[21:18] <intellectronica> sidnei: also, i think you'll have to wait until launchpad's pqm is open again. it's still in release-critical mode after the release
[21:18] <sidnei> intellectronica, man, that really shouldn't block lazr-js
[21:18]  * sidnei holds up on the angrymail
[21:19] <sidnei> intellectronica, is this what you mean? https://pastebin.canonical.com/27105/
[21:19] <intellectronica> i totally agree. time is high for us to start including lazr-js as a separate package and test it independently
[21:19] <intellectronica> sidnei: yes, exactly
[21:20] <intellectronica> makes it a bit clearer on first pass that you are concatenating tuples
[21:20] <sidnei> yeah. it wasn't intentional. i refactored that line a couple times.
[21:49] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: I got errors in multiversion.txt and field.txt tests.
[21:52] <leonardr> edwingrubbs, can you paste the errors?
[21:56] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/364149/
[21:57] <leonardr> edwin: i think you have a different version of something
[21:58] <leonardr> edwingrubbs: yes, i believe you have an old version of simplejson
[21:58] <leonardr> edwingrubbs: i have 2.0.9. what do you have?
[22:02] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: you're right, I have an old version.
[23:21] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: do you get an oops when you reload the mp? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/generate-multiversion-collections/+merge/18153


[18:35] <pipedream> need more space on PPA: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/267727
[18:54] <benji> The new keyboard navigation for MP diffs is great guys!
[20:23] <psusi> anyone got the banstick handy?  Got a troll here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/220961/comments/57
[20:32] <cjwatson> I think hiding is probably sufficient in that case; it's a user upset about a particular issue and being unacceptably aggressive in the process, but not apparently a persistent troll in many places, so IMO we won't gain much by bringing out the banhammer


[14:21] <h00k> oi
[14:33] <h00k> Hi friends.
[18:44]  * Cheesehead pokes his head up for a minute
[18:46]  * Cheesehead burrows back under the rock
[19:08] <h00k> heh.
[20:42]  * Cheesehead pokes his head up again
[20:44] <Cheesehead> h00k: Say, we doing a meeting in September?


[16:11] <ScottK> It would be useful if someone would look and see what we need to do to kill python-wxgtk2.6 in quantal.  It's already gone in Debian.
[16:11] <tumbleweed> I seem to recall you pointing at wx related issues in precise too
[16:12] <ScottK> I may have.
[16:13] <ScottK> It's one of those things I think should be done, but I've not got time to look into myself.
[16:14]  * tumbleweed has bug 948944 open in my browser, probably for a while :)
[16:16]  * tumbleweed may put some time into them this evening. But first, going out for dinner and beer!
[16:19] <ScottK> beer sounds like an appropriate preparation for working on wx stuff.
[16:22] <jtaylor> nice I broke my wx installation by installing 2.6
[16:22] <tumbleweed> oO) maybe jtaylor can fix it before I get back )
[16:23] <jtaylor> I don't even know how to fix my own installation
[16:23] <jtaylor> I reinstalled everything and purged 2.6 :/
[16:23] <jtaylor> still broken
[16:23] <tumbleweed> nice
[16:28] <jtaylor>  /usr/lib//python2.7/dist-packages/wx.pth does not get reinstalled for some reason
[16:31] <jtaylor> hurray reinstalling python-wxversion fixed it
[19:48] <tumbleweed> the wxwidgets2.6 removal affects beauties like this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/encadre-image
[19:48] <tumbleweed> same upstream version since feisty
[19:48] <jtaylor> neat
[19:49]  * tumbleweed looks to see if it works with 2.7
[19:49] <tumbleweed> err 8
[19:50] <jtaylor> I actually wanted a newer version of wxformbuilder recently, another one of those ubuntu only never updated one
[19:50] <jtaylor> I looked into it and it embeds a library not available ubuntu (ticpp)
[19:51] <jtaylor> I don't really fell like properly maintaining both full scale in debian to satisfy my short term need for it
[19:52] <tumbleweed> that's one of the reasons I created http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/neglected-packages.cgi We should encaurage people to look at it... (and host it on ubuntuwire, so it's faster)
[19:52] <jtaylor> but others might profit from an updated version not up to debian standards but equal to what is already there
[19:52] <jtaylor> can I upload it including the embedded library to ubuntu?
[19:53]  * tumbleweed supposes you could. but IANAAA
[19:54] <Laney> you shouldn't have looked
[19:54] <Laney> now it is on your conscience :P
[19:54] <tumbleweed> :)
[19:58] <Laney> seriously though, it is important to think about whether dumping something you intend at the outset not to care for is a good idea
[20:00] <jtaylor> yes but we already have something outdated in the archive, the alternative is to remove it or leave it rotting
[20:00] <jtaylor> in this case the package is still usable though so rotting may be ok
[20:00] <tumbleweed> reintroduction in Debian, by someone who cares about it, is preferable to rotting
[20:00] <tumbleweed> assuming the rot is already well set-in
[20:01] <jtaylor> it was never in debian
[20:01] <tumbleweed> no reason it couldn't be, in its next life :)
[20:03] <jtaylor> not by me, and its not exactly an easy target for a newcomer
[20:03] <jtaylor> you need to know a bunch of unusual stuff for proper maintenance
[20:04] <jtaylor> e.g. lua, premake
[20:04] <jtaylor> though updating the ubuntu package as is is a breeze, just get-orig-source and build :)
[20:05] <jtaylor> easier than trying to install from upstreams mess of a distribution
[20:05] <tumbleweed> I do worry that the rotting packages cause an unecessary drain on MOTU
[20:05] <tumbleweed> but yeah, the bar for an existing ubuntu-only package is pretty low
[20:17] <dupondje> tumbleweed: maby add popularity next to the list of neglected packages
[20:17] <dupondje> guess there are ton of packages nobody uses.
[20:18] <tumbleweed> yeah, that's a useful column
[20:18] <jtaylor> that page doesn't load for me :(
[20:19] <tumbleweed> give it a few years
[20:19] <dupondje> jtaylor: just wait a bit ... :)
[20:19] <tumbleweed> let's see if I can get it working on syklone before it loads for you...
[20:20] <jtaylor> been waiting 20 minutes already
[20:20] <jtaylor> though I had a disconnect in between
[20:20] <tumbleweed> why on earth did I make this a CGI?
[20:21] <jtaylor> now it loaded
[20:21] <jtaylor> quite a log :O
[20:21] <jtaylor> lot
[20:22] <tumbleweed> Laney: btw, finally got around to doing the report that was the cause for my ubuntu_upload_history involvement: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/debian-ubuntu-developers/
[20:23] <Laney> heh
[20:23] <tumbleweed> I seem to remember taking a workitem for that last UDS
[20:23] <Laney> what for?
[20:24] <tumbleweed> can't remember. Presumabyl debian healthcheck
[20:25] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: anything you need changed on ubuntuwire to get some of that stuff on there? :)
[20:25] <tumbleweed> ajmitch: laney pointed out last night that debian's UDD hasn't been importing *sources tables. Time for us to do more than just load dumps? :)
[20:25] <tumbleweed> (I'm not particularly serious there, but it probably does affect some reports)
[20:26] <Laney> apparently it is getting a new machine
[20:26] <tumbleweed> yeah, I think we kicked off the replace-ancient-machines movement
[20:26] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: what'd be required on our side for that?
[20:27] <tumbleweed> Laney: do we know the timeframe for the new UDD machine?
[20:27]  * tumbleweed looks for bits from zack
[20:27] <Laney> no
[20:27] <Laney> ask zobel in #-qa
[20:28] <Laney> i think it is pretty imminent though
[20:28]  * tumbleweed does that
[20:30] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: is a UDS session needed about any of this, or maybe rolled into another session?
[20:30] <ajmitch> or JFDI
[20:30] <tumbleweed> ajmitch: seriously. It's only a short-time issue (we hope) so I think we just sit it out
[20:31] <ajmitch> ok
[20:32] <tumbleweed> dupondje: don't you feel like merging xaralx?
[20:32] <tumbleweed> test-built the version in sid, FTBFS
[20:39] <dupondje> hoh
[20:39] <dupondje> I tought I checked that for oneiric
[20:40] <tumbleweed> we do have a new gcc...
[20:42] <dupondje> hmz, current debian version is ftbfs ?
[20:42] <dupondje> due to ?
[20:43] <tumbleweed> dupondje: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/tmp/xaralx_0.7r1785-5_amd64.build
[20:48]  * dupondje should start working for Canonical :)
[20:49] <Laney> if you're referring to that URL, all Ubuntu members get that
[20:49] <dupondje> ah no :)
[20:50] <dupondje> i'm still not ubuntu member btw :P
[20:53] <dupondje> tumbleweed: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52725 seems related
[20:56] <tumbleweed> we could just remove the package. Debian removed it from testing years ago :)
[20:59] <dupondje> let me check, shouldn't be to hard to fix :)
[20:59] <dupondje> bleh, pbuilder-dist doesn't know quantal
[20:59] <dupondje> ;)
[21:00] <tumbleweed> it should
[21:00] <tumbleweed> what release are you on?
[21:01] <dupondje> Precise
[21:01] <tumbleweed> you will need to create a quantal rootfs, of course
[21:03] <jtaylor> do you ahve debootstrap from backports?
[21:04] <dupondje> nopes :)
[21:06] <dupondje> ok, i'm running :)
[21:06] <dupondje> thx
[21:34] <dupondje> tumbleweed: fixed that one, getting this now
[21:34] <dupondje> imjpeg.cpp:773:37: error: 'JPEG_LIB_VERSION' was not declared in this scope
[21:35] <tumbleweed> sounds liek a missing include
[21:35] <tumbleweed> or something related to the jpeg library switch we did
[22:54] <tumbleweed> dupondje: added popcon: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-neglected-packages/
[22:54] <tumbleweed> (statically generated. can't cron it until we have quantal in ubuntu_sources)