[07:37] <5EXAAEK4A> Hello ppl , Has any one tried building the ubuntu rootfs from sources ?
[07:44] <persia> bandwidthcrunch: I don't know of any recent efforts to reconstruct it, but it's exclusively generated from uploaded sources.
[07:46] <bandwidthcrunch> Wanted to be able to regenerate it from uploaded sources at my end persia. Was wondering if there was a way i could rebuild the jaunty/karmic for armel without using rootstock
[07:46] <persia> Well, there's two steps involved.
[07:47] <persia> The first is converting sources to binaries, and the second assembling binaries into an image.
[07:47] <persia> Do you need to do both, or just one?
[07:47] <bandwidthcrunch> I wanted both . A build process like pbuilder (targetting armel) and the binaries in a rootfs populated automiatically
[07:50] <persia> OK.
[07:50] <persia> So the main issue is the bootstrap.
[07:51] <bandwidthcrunch> Wanted to comeup with a distribution targetting custom arm hardware.
[07:51] <persia> I don't think there's an easy way to do it.
[07:51] <persia> You'd probably want to build your toolchain against Ubuntu, and then rebuild Ubuntu against that toolchain.
[07:51] <persia> Which requires setting up your own archive environment (dak, soyuz, etc.)
[07:52] <persia> The pbuilder from lucid works on armel (either native or emulated) just fine, but won't scale to what you want.
[07:52] <persia> Once you have that, just use your rebuilt rootstock.
[07:52] <persia> Unless you have mountains of hardware, this process will probably take 3-4 months at a minimum.
[07:52] <bandwidthcrunch> Ok. and what are dak and soyuz ?
[07:53] <persia> dak is the tool used to manage the Debian archive.  soyuz is the tool used to manage the Ubuntu archive.
[07:53] <bandwidthcrunch> i do have atleast 6 600mhz arm devices
[07:53] <persia> Getting it done in 4 months is optimistic then.
[07:54] <bandwidthcrunch> I will be getting grey hair by then :) . is there anyway to achieve the same on cross platform. Build it on i386 ?
[07:55] <persia> You can do it with emulated builds, but it's still a few months.
[07:55] <persia> (again, unless you have mountains of hardware)
[07:56] <persia> There are heaps of packages that don't cross-compile well, so trying to do cross-compilation would be it's own sort of pain.
[07:59] <bandwidthcrunch> Thanks persia. I dont see a way out of this one. Let me check up if openembedded guys have gotten a way of integrating ubuntu sources and churning it out
[08:00] <persia> bandwidthcrunch: I can't imagine you really need to do this.
[08:00] <persia> Simply because there chance that there's a good reason to provide 20,000 rebuilt binaries is vanishingly low.
[08:00] <persia> s/there/the/
[08:01] <bandwidthcrunch> Sometimes  i can wait for ubuntu to keep releasing armel builds but for for certain applications i will need source control.
[08:01] <bandwidthcrunch> Maybe i can just build those on ubuntu servers ?
[08:01] <persia> Do you need modified sources, or sources built over a modified toolchain?
[08:02] <bandwidthcrunch> Both . example openoffice doesnt fit well over my 7inch screen. need to hack the sources to trim it to a window and have our own toolchain bake it
[08:03] <bandwidthcrunch> ideally have our toolchain build all the packages but again as u mention it is going to take a while doing that
[08:03] <persia> OK.  The application changes are easy.  The toolchain is more fussy.  Why do you need a special toolchain?
[08:05] <persia> On a separate note, the problem with openoffice isn't that your screen is 7", it's that your screen doesn't have enough pixels :)
[08:05] <bandwidthcrunch> Fr application developers we need to provide an SDK with a toolchain
[08:05] <persia> Can't you just tell the application developers to use Ubuntu and pbuilder?
[08:05] <persia> (or sbuild : doesn't really matter)
[08:06] <bandwidthcrunch> Would they be able to do that for armel ? create applications without me passing them my rootfs and a toolchain ?
[08:06] <persia> Yes.
[08:07] <persia> Well, under some constraints.
[08:07] <persia> So, let's assume you start from the Ubuntu archives.
[08:07] <persia> Then your developers either run pbuilder on native hardware or run pbuilder with emulation on foreign hardware.
[08:08] <persia> That's how we develop Ubuntu today.  I don't see any reason that someone couldn't use the same procedure elsewhere
[08:08] <bandwidthcrunch> Is there a wiki somewhere where i can readup on howto go about the same ?
[08:08] <persia> (and, honestly, we don't always do the build on armel if it's not an arch-specific thing, and just trust the archive to build the armel binary from the single upload of source)
[08:08] <persia> !pbuilder
[08:08] <ubot4> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[08:09] <persia> You'd need to be running lucid to get the emulated pbuilder working, but that is created by running `pbuilder-dist lucid armel create` on i386 or amd64.
[08:09] <persia> (assuming ubuntu-dev-tools to be installed).
[08:10] <persia> So, the developers can do their testing / development using a combination of native i386/amd64, native armel, and emulated armel for development and testing (depending on the specific feature being changed).
[08:11] <bandwidthcrunch> I have most of the requirements , let me take it out for a spin and see what comes up ... I have 64bit lucid and a core i7.
[08:11] <persia> Where you find issues, you can modify sources.  You can put the sources either in a PPA or in some other archive somewhere.
[08:12] <persia> If you put the modified sources in a PPA, you'll need to set up some armel devices to track the PPA, pull any new sources, build them, and stick the results somewhre.
[08:12] <persia> (because PPAs don't build armel).
[08:12] <persia> If you use some other archive, you'll need to build for each architecture you want to work.
[08:13] <persia> You'll probably want to put the entries for your modified packages in the sources.list for your pbuilder chroots and test devices.
[08:13] <bandwidthcrunch> what about thr toolchain ? How does pbuilder set that up ?
[08:13] <persia> It just downloads from the archives listed in sources.list
[08:13] <persia> So if you upload a modified toolchain, it uses that.
[08:13] <persia> But be careful: if you change the ABI, you end up needing to rebuild everything (which takes months).
[08:14] <bandwidthcrunch>  pbuilder-dist lucid armel create
[08:14] <bandwidthcrunch> Error: «armel» is not a recognized argument.
[08:14] <bandwidthcrunch> Please use one of those: create, update, build, clean, login, execute
[08:14] <persia> You may have to modify rootstock to use your archive, but that modified rootstock would let you build rootfs images.
[08:14] <persia> This is lucid?
[08:15] <bandwidthcrunch> It is karmic
[08:15] <bandwidthcrunch> i will have to uprage it i guess
[08:16] <bandwidthcrunch> Let me get on with it..
[08:16] <persia> Yeah.  I didn't add the support to build emulated chroots until a few weeks ago, and the emulation stuff still ad lots of issues until near the end of last week.
[08:17] <persia> so you'll be working on the edge, but the idea is to create an environment so that nobody needs to traffic in big SDKs anymore, if they use Ubuntu.
[08:17] <bandwidthcrunch> Thanks persia, makes a lot of sense now..
[08:18] <persia> bandwidthcrunch: If this works for you, and you end up with patches you think would be good for general application, please file them in launchpad.
[08:19] <persia> We'd really appreciate the help in making Ubuntu strong (and it reduces your future effort in merging your patches against the next release).
[08:19] <bandwidthcrunch> Done persia. I will push them to lauchpad
[08:19] <persia> Thanks :)
[08:20] <bandwidthcrunch> Appreciate the help. Will keep us posted on the happenings
[08:20] <persia> I don't know if you're planning to use bzr, but there's been a lot of work by the Distributed Development team to try to make working with Ubuntu sources in bzr extra easy.
[08:21] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment has some links that might be interesting.
[08:21] <persia> (Depends on your team size, facility with operating debian-style archives, etc.)
[08:21] <bandwidthcrunch> I tried using bzr but that was a month two back .. Let me check them up..
[08:22] <persia> There's no requirement to use bzr, but if you have a large team that plans to cooperate on a small number of packages, it may be helpful.
[08:24] <bandwidthcrunch> Ahh ok. We have a small team so i dont think we will really be more of a bzr ppl for the time being
[08:24] <persia> Fair enough.  I just wanted to make sure you knew about the variety of tools available.
[08:25] <asac> heyho folks!
[08:25] <persia> Selfishly, I'd prefer to see your team working with Ubuntu and using Ubuntu tools, rather than building a derivative distribution :)
[08:25] <persia> (although I recognise that if you are targeting some specific device, there are probably commercial requirements that require some variation from the set of packages that have general application)
[08:30] <bandwidthcrunch> I agree in the uniformity concept rather than have fragmentations
[08:31] <bandwidthcrunch> Ours is a custom device and has a bit of changes that come in for the platfrom but otherwise we like sticking to vanilla ubuntu
[08:31] <persia> Excellent.
[08:33] <persia> Note that there are some restrictions on trademark usage.  I forget the precise phrasing, but it comes down to not being able to call the OS "Ubuntu" if it has modified sources, especially in product marketing and branding, etc.
[08:34] <persia> I believe "based on Ubuntu" or similar is accepted.
[08:34] <persia> But I'm not qualified to give precise advice: you'd want to check with your counsel.
[11:09] <ynezz> Where can I find modules for vmlinuz-2.6.31-rc3versatile1-cortex-a8 kernel? Seems like I need modules http://ynezz.true.cz/qemu.png
[11:10] <persia> From where did you get the kernel?
[11:11] <ynezz> I'm following steps here https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ARM/BuildArmPackages
[11:11] <ynezz> it's this URL http://people.canonical.com/~ogra//arm/qemu/vmlinuz-2.6.31-rc3versatile1-cortex-a8
[11:12] <lool> ynezz: The modules aren't available
[11:12] <lool> ynezz: I recommend you use the lucid versatile kernel instead
[11:13] <lool> ynezz: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/l/linux/linux-image-2.6.32-14-versatile_2.6.32-14.20_armel.deb
[11:13] <lool> ynezz: Unpack this with dpkg-deb -x, and you'll get a boot/vmlinuz and a lib/modules tree
[11:13] <asac> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/146306/
[11:14] <ynezz> lool: thanks, trying now
[11:14] <asac> JamieBennett: ^^ (thats httplib though)
[11:14] <persia> ynezz: From where did you find instructions to use that kernel?  I'd like to replace that documentation with what lool has just supplied.
[11:14] <ynezz> persia: that edubuntu link
[11:14] <lool> persia: I guess that's rootstock doc
[11:15] <lool> Did rootstock switch to pulling the lucid kernel now?
[11:15] <ynezz> persia: "If development machine is running Karmic"
[11:15] <asac> odd ... isnt there  a soup python binding in the archive?
[11:15] <ynezz> persia: here https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ARM/BuildArmPackages
[11:15] <persia> ynezz: Found it.  Thanks.
[11:15] <persia> lool: Do we have a good kernel for running karmic, or should one use the lucid kernel there as well?
[11:15] <lool> Gah who copied that page
[11:16] <persia> copied?
[11:16] <lool> Yeah
[11:16] <persia> from where to where?
[11:16] <persia> wiki.*buntu.com are just different themes on the same content (or so it is supposed to be)
[11:16] <lool> I know
[11:16] <lool> :)
[11:17] <persia> Oh, heh :)
[11:18] <lool> cooloney: Heya
[11:18] <lool> cooloney: Would you have some minutes for me?
[11:18] <hrw> morning
[11:18] <lool> cooloney: I'd like to discuss two things related to qemu/versatile kernels with you
[11:19] <lool> cooloney: First is: did you manage to find out what's breaking kexec?
[11:19] <lool> hrw: morning
[11:19] <lool> cooloney: The second is: I'm having issues with initramfses -- they don't work in qemu versatile, only initrds do; would you be able to help with that?
[11:20] <hrw> lool: versatile does not support >armv5te iirc
[11:20] <lool> hrw: We patched that
[11:20] <hrw> kernel simple patch? I had such one in old Poky days to run armv6 in qemu
[11:20] <lool> It works with qemu cortex a8 emulation in our case
[11:21] <lool> hrw: Yup, just basically select v7 instead of select arm11something
[11:21] <hrw> good choice
[11:21] <hrw> versatile is best arm qemu target
[11:21] <lool> I'm not sure anymore
[11:22] <hrw> scsi, usb, video, network
[11:22] <lool> network, usb and network are all related to PCI support IIRC
[11:22] <hrw> yep
[11:22] <hrw> and usb gives you working touchscreen emulation
[11:22] <lool> And actually realview versatile has gained PCI support upstream and... cortex a9!
[11:23] <lool> So I have a secret plan to move to this if time permits and people agree with it -- but it's secret, don't tell anyone on #ubuntu-arm
[11:23] <hrw> ;D
[11:23] <lool> Another good target seems to be omap3, but it's based on another qemu tree and probably works best with the linux-omap tree
[11:23] <hrw> yep
[11:24] <hrw> OpenEmbedded linux-omap recipes have lot of good patches added to get it better
[11:25] <ogra> yeah
[11:25] <ogra> angstrom too iirc
[11:25] <ogra> (for userspace)
[11:25] <hrw> ogra: angstrom uses OE
[11:25] <ogra> i know
[11:25] <ogra> i was referring to userspace :)
[11:26] <hrw> anyway many of our (OE) patches came from Debian or Gentoo
[11:26] <lool> hrw: So you're a poky and OE developer?
[11:26] <hrw> some from other distros etc
[11:26] <hrw> lool: yes, I am
[11:27] <hrw> nearly 6 years in OE
[11:27] <ogra> debian wont help with v7 or thumb2 specific stuff though
[11:27] <lool> hrw: Dump OE and come over here!
[11:27] <ogra> i would expect to find more intresting stuff for that in OE than in debian :)
[11:27] <ynezz> lool: hm, it boots now, but I can't get after "mountall: Could not connect to Plymouth"
[11:27] <hrw> lool: do you give free devboards?
[11:27] <lool> ynezz: That's just a warning
[11:27] <hrw> :D
[11:27] <ogra> ynezz, serial ?
[11:27] <lool> ynezz: How did you create your root fs?
[11:28] <ynezz> rootstock
[11:28] <ogra> do you use a monitor or a serial console ?
[11:28] <lool> hrw: If you sign to help us for the next 6 years, I'll ship you one of mine!
[11:28] <ogra> note that for serial you need to use the --serial option in rootstock else you wont get a login prompt
[11:28] <hrw> ogra: you use monitors?
[11:29] <ynezz> ogra: ah, I'm new to qemu, didn't know about it :)
[11:29] <hrw> I do not remember when last time I connected beagleboard to lcd
[11:29] <ogra> hrw, we build netbook live images, indeed i do :)
[11:29] <ynezz> ogra: was following probably wrong wiki page...
[11:29] <hrw> sim.one was never conencted to screen even ;D
[11:29] <ogra> ynezz, it might be, yeah, the above page you pasted is very confusing
[11:29] <cooloney> lool: yeah, we found ARMv7 does not support kexec as well as others
[11:30] <ogra> i wonder why that was duplicated from BuildARMRootfs
[11:30] <cooloney> lool: we got some patches from omap maintainer
[11:30] <ogra> err
[11:30] <ogra> RootfsFromScratch rather :)
[11:30] <cooloney> lool: eric tested them on dove, i plan to test them soon on imx51 and versatile
[11:31] <persia> Does anyone have a recommendation for a TFTP server?
[11:31]  * persia sees both atftpd and tftpd and is unsure which to use
[11:31] <ogra> tptpd-hpa
[11:31] <lool> cooloney: Ok, thanks
[11:31] <ogra> *tf
[11:32] <persia> ogra: Heh.  Neither of the ones I thought.  Thanks :)
[11:32] <ogra> heh
[11:32] <lool> persia: I had an experience where both atftpd and tftpd failed working in a specific case and tftpd-hpa worked
[11:32] <cooloney> lool: so for the initramfs, is there any bug tracker for that.
[11:32] <ogra> its the one used in ltsp ... the one thats maintained most in ubuntu
[11:32] <ynezz> ogra: seems like that eLinux page is more up-to-date then those on Ubuntu :)
[11:32] <cooloney> lool: i can take a look at that
[11:32] <lool> cooloney: LP #524893
[11:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524893 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can't boot initramfses (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524893
[11:32] <ogra> persia, another good choice seems to be dnsmasq
[11:33] <lool> Hmm right, never tried dnsmasq, but that's certainly a good tool -- it's used in libvirt to provide dhcp and DNS proxies I think
[11:33] <persia> ogra: I think dnsmasq is more than I need: I'm just trying to work around the lack of a soldering iron right now.
[11:33] <ogra> yeah, it does everything you need for a netboot
[11:33] <ogra> dhcp, dns, tftp
[11:33] <hrw> dnsmasq is nice
[11:34] <lool> cooloney: So I'm not sure whether it's a qemu or versatile kernel bug
[11:34] <ogra> and can work as proxy dhcp ... so you dont get races between dhcp servers if you have multiple ones and do netboot
[11:34] <lool> cooloney: Do you manage to get an initramfs to unpack on real boards?
[11:34] <cooloney> lool: no problem, assigned to me, will take a look,
[11:34] <lool> cooloney: Note that "junk in compressed archive" appears twice in the boot source code
[11:34] <cooloney> lool: i think we are using initramfs in imx51 board for a long time,
[11:35] <lool> cooloney: Note that we have CONFIG_CRAMFS=y in imx51
[11:35] <lool> cooloney: So we might be using initrd instead, without noticing
[11:35] <lool> cooloney: If you have a recent dmesg, I could tell
[11:35] <lool> Anybody has a recent non-qemu dmesg?
[11:35] <lool> (with an initrd)
[11:36] <cooloney> lool: hold on
[11:36] <lool> dmesg | grep -i initramfs or something
[11:38] <cooloney> lool: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/381535/
[11:38] <cooloney> roc@babbage:~$ dmesg | grep -i initramfs
[11:38] <cooloney> Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs...
[11:40] <lool> cooloney: And the next line?
[11:40] <lool> cooloney: grep -A2 -i initramfs ;-)
[11:41] <lool> Also, grep for initrd, that might say: Freeing initrd memory: 8924k freed; that's also interesting, I'm not sure that's done for non-initramfs
[11:42] <lool> the dmesg in<EMAIL_ADDRESS>looks like it's working correctly (supports initramfs), so it's not arm specific, either versatile or qemu
[11:43] <lool> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33211547/dmesg has another one
[11:44] <lool> cooloney: So I would suspect the qemu initrd loader is broken   :-/
[11:44] <lool> cooloney: it'd be nice to enable CONFIG_CRAMFS=y in the mean time
[11:45] <cooloney> lool: right, did you test a kernel with CONFIG_CRAMFS=y before?
[11:45] <cooloney> lool: for versatile,
[11:45] <ogra> lool, thats weird, i know it works in debian
[11:46] <ogra> vagrantc does arm based thin client development in qemu, initramfs support is essential for ltsp
[11:46] <lool> cooloney: I know CONFIG_CRAMFS=y works
[11:46] <ogra> so it must have regressed between our and debians qemu version
[11:46] <lool> cooloney: I tested a Debian kernel
[11:47] <lool> ogra: Was it initramfs or initrd?
[11:47] <ogra> initramfs
[11:47] <ogra> ltsp doesnt use initrd
[11:47] <lool> Note that it's the same format
[11:47] <ogra> and i know for sure he regulary tests client setups
[11:47] <lool> ogra: Was this on ARM?
[11:47] <ogra> yes
[11:48] <lool> ogra: How can he be sure that it didn't pick up an initrd?
[11:48] <ogra> he improves my proof of concept code for arm thin clients atm
[11:48] <ogra> he picks up whatever update-initramfs generates
[11:49] <lool> ogra: That will work as an initrd as well
[11:49] <ogra> i will ask him if he gets up what exactly he uses to test
[11:49] <ogra> (he's a portlander :) )
[11:49] <lool> cooloney: Do you have a qemu tree?
[11:49] <cooloney> lool: sorry, no
[11:50] <cooloney> lool: i plan to clone one and test for a while
[11:50] <cooloney> heh
[11:50] <lool> cooloney: Either clone upstream or apt-get source qemu-kvm
[11:50] <lool> cooloney: The relevant file is hw/arm_boot.c
[11:50] <lool> It works the ATAG stuff and loads the initrd in RAM
[11:52] <cooloney> lool: ok, no problem.
[11:52] <lool> cooloney: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-armel/current/images/versatile/netboot/ has a kernel + initrd with v5 kernel + v4 binaries which have CONFIG_CRAMFS=y along others and load properly in qemu with -initrd
[11:52] <lool> cooloney: Do you want me to send a patch for the versatile kernel configs?
[11:53] <cooloney> lool: yes, please.
[11:53] <cooloney> lool: i can test that on my side.
[11:53] <cooloney> guys, have to head out for dinner
[11:53] <cooloney> talk to you later
[11:54] <lool> Chers
[11:54] <lool> Cheers
[11:59] <lool> cooloney: sent
[12:05] <persia> ogra: So, tftpd-hpa didn't actually meet my need (because the documentation claiming that when DHCP failed, the device would use a specific address and *then* use TFTP didn't work), so I'm trying dnsmasq.  This seems to have decided to only work with my virbr interfaces, but I'm having trouble finding where that is defined.  Any ideas on how to add eth0 there?
[12:05] <ogra> lool, hmm, i thought all filesystems that can possibly be used for booting are supposed to be builtin not modules nowadays
[12:06]  * ogra just notes that there are a lot CONFIG_CRAMFS=m for non armel in lool's patch
[12:07] <ogra> persia, can you start from the ground up ? what exactly are you doing ? :)
[12:07] <ogra> and whats your exact setup up to now
[12:08] <persia> I'm trying to get my kurobox working again.  I last used it for an abortive install of jaunty the day the orion5x kernel was dropped.
[12:08] <ogra> whats a kurobox ?
[12:08] <persia> It appears that the current state of the device is that it's running the default firmware with a modified password.
[12:09] <persia> http://buffalo.nas-central.org/wiki/KuroBoxPro
[12:09] <lool> ogra: That's because CONFIG_CRAMFS=m was the default on all arches
[12:09] <ogra> lool, ah
[12:09] <ogra> i was just wondering ...
[12:09] <lool> So it was in the common config and is moving up in per-arch configs
[12:09] <ogra> i might even not be up to date wrt module/vs builtin
[12:09] <lool> persia: Don't add eth0 to virbr0
[12:09] <persia> DHCP does work, and I should be able to TFTP boot.  I ask here not because Ubuntu supports the target, but because I figured that folk here would have more experience with host/client connections than in other channels.
[12:10] <ogra> but i thought that was the decision for lucid
[12:10] <lool> persia: It's meant to be a proxy interface
[12:10] <lool> It's only bridging your vms together
[12:10] <persia> lool: My issue is that dnsmasq is *only* listening on virbr0, and I only want it to listen on eth0.
[12:10] <lool> and a place for dnsmasq to listen too
[12:10] <lool> persia: Is it the dnsmasq you launched?
[12:10]  * persia doesn't care about vms at the moment, as real hardware is the current toy
[12:11] <lool> persia: Cause libvirt is spawning one with a non-default config too by default
[12:11] <persia> It started from /etc/init.d
[12:11] <persia> But I had libvirt installed and didn't have dnsmasq installed before.
[12:11]  * persia is now confused.
[12:11] <lool> persia: libvirt-bin depends dnsmasq-base
[12:12]  * ogra doesnt get why you have libvirt at all
[12:12] <persia> Aha!  So I previously must have had dnsmasq-base and just installed dnsmasq.
[12:12] <ogra> dnsmasq works without it
[12:12] <persia> ogra: I have libvirt for entirely different reasons, completely unrelated to the current project.
[12:12] <lool> persia: dnsmasq-base has the binaries
[12:13] <ogra> right
[12:13] <persia> So the dnsmasq I see in ps is really the libvirt one, and I need to do something to create a default one?
[12:13] <lool> persia: In theory, dnsmasq listen on all interfaces by default, but you can set interface=eth0
[12:13] <lool> persia: Yes
[12:13] <lool> Probably you see something like:
[12:13] <lool> nobody    1342  0.0  0.0  21404   888 ?        S    Feb20   0:00 dnsmasq --strict-order --bind-interfaces --pid-file=/var/run/libvirt/network/default.pid --conf-file=  --listen-address <IP_ADDRESS> --except-interface lo --dhcp-range <IP_ADDRESS>,<IP_ADDRESS> --dhcp-lease-max=253
[12:13] <persia> Right.
[12:13] <lool> that's the libvirt one
[12:14] <persia> And I'm unsure why I only see that one, because /etc/default/dnsmasq has "ENABLED=1"
[12:14] <lool> persia: Did it actually invoke-rc.d dnsmasq start upon install?
[12:14] <persia> (and that, like the init script, comes from dnsmasq, rather than dnsmasq-base)
[12:14] <lool> Just restart it
[12:15] <persia> Aha!  "dnsmasq: failed to create listening socket: Address already in use"
[12:15] <lool> persia: That's because it tries listening on virbr0 too I guess
[12:15] <persia> That's my thought.
[12:15] <lool> persia: Try listing interface=eth0 explicitly, that might help
[12:15] <persia> I suspect we ought silence that :)
[12:16] <lool> Silence it?
[12:16] <ogra> no you shouldnt
[12:16] <lool> persia: except-interface=
[12:16] <persia> Patch the default configuration to ignore virbr by default.
[12:16] <persia> Right.
[12:16] <ogra> but it should report the interface its failing on like dhcpd does
[12:16] <lool> persia: Yup
[12:16] <persia> Actually, libvirt-bin should probably drop something in /etc/dnsmasq.d to achieve that.
[12:17]  * persia files a bug
[12:19] <lool> persia: there's a catch: it will override any user-set except-interface, so it might actually break things to add this
[12:19] <lool> I prefer the approach in theory, but in practice it might work better to patch the default config
[12:20] <lool> So if someone had except-interface=virbr0,important-interface it will break badly
[12:20] <persia> Except that breaks user configurations where virbr is not libvirt managed.
[12:20] <lool> I find it less likely
[12:20] <persia> except-interface isn't additive if multiply defined?
[12:22] <lool> persia: The command-line flags are actually additive, I'm not sure about the .conf
[12:22] <persia> I think it is, from what documentation I'm finding
[12:22]  * persia looks harder before pressing "submit" on the bug
[12:23] <persia> bug #231060 seems to imply that ttx thinks it ought get sorted with adding a file.
[12:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 231060 in libvirt (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "packages dnsmasq and libvirt-bin conflict with each other (dups: 2)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231060
[12:24] <ogra> NCommander, dyfet, are you guys working on the FTBFS list ? it seems a bunch of new stuff showed up there over the weekend and A3 is ahead
[12:25] <lool> persia: Ok, it's the same parsing for opts on cmdline and opts in the conffile
[12:25] <lool> persia: So additive as well, my bad
[12:26] <persia> No, it's better we check :)
[12:26] <lool> (one_file() calls one_opt() and getopt ultimately calls one_opt())
[12:26] <persia> Right.
[12:26] <NCommander> ogra: looks like the breakage took place in universe/multiverse. Main doesn't look that much different thenI remember, but will investigate
[12:27] <ogra> NCommander, some indicator things and keyring stuff
[12:27] <ogra> is what i see on a first glance
[12:27] <NCommander> ugh
[12:28] <ogra> and pulse
[12:28] <ogra> please priorize work on that together with dyfet we need these packages for A3
[12:29] <persia> pulse managed to segfault in a shell script.
[12:29] <persia> I believe StevenK was looking at it with crimsun
[12:29]  * persia remains unsure how to segfault a shell script
[12:29] <ogra> err, sorry, i have given back pulse this morning
[12:29] <ogra> it built fine, ignore that :)
[12:30] <ogra> persia, thats the typical buildd hiccup we see randomly ...
[12:31] <persia> segfaults in bash scripts?
[12:31] <ogra> or anywhere else
[12:31] <persia> If you can ever reproduce locally, I want a stacktrace.
[12:31] <ogra> you cant reproduce it locally
[12:31] <ogra> thats the point
[12:31] <ogra> its a buildd HW issue
[12:31] <ogra> imho
[12:32] <persia> Ugh.
[12:32]  * persia wants nice reliable retail hardware in the DC.
[12:32] <ogra> ++
[12:32] <ogra> we'll get there
[12:33] <ogra> probably even before end of the cycle, who knows
[12:34] <persia> lool: You seem to have commented usefully in the bug before I finished dealing with the me too link and duplicate fixups.
[12:34] <persia> lool: Are you adding such a snippet, or shall I?
[12:34] <persia> (ttx already wrote it, in comment 7)
[12:34] <lool> persia: Do feel free to add it
[12:34] <lool> persia: I didn't think through about bind-interfaces
[12:35] <lool> It's not clear to me why libvirt doesn't pass a list of interfaces and doesn't set bind-interfaces too
[12:35] <lool> Actually it does set --bind-interfaces, sorry
[12:35] <persia> lool: I just didn't want to duplicate work :)  I'll check with ttx about it, etc. and get it fixed.
[12:35] <lool> persia: I would personally wonder why libvirt-bin does --except-interface lo instead of --interface x,y,z
[12:37] <persia> lool: I suspect it's to catch all of virbr*, but given that it targets a specific address, it's a good question.
[12:37] <persia> Thanks for the hints: I'll see what can be sorted.
[12:38] <lool> It might target multiple devices,not sure
[13:22] <ynezz> ogra: still fighting with that serial console in qemu, I have /etc/init/ttyS2.conf in my image (added by rootstock, --serial ttyS2 option), then I have tried to put "console=ttyS2,115200n8" in qemu kernel boot option and I should have console in qemu monitor mode ctrl+alt+3 right?
[13:24] <ogra> if you use qemu the tty has a different name
[13:24] <ogra> ttyAMA0 or some such
[13:26] <ynezz> ah
[13:27] <ogra> you should see the actual name in the boot output of the kernel
[13:27] <ynezz> no, I don't have it backlog
[13:27] <ynezz> but it's working now, thanks
[13:28] <ogra> btw, didnt you say you wanted to build packages ?
[13:29] <ynezz> yes
[13:29] <ogra> using qemu-arm-static for that is wasy less effort and surely a little faster than running a full VM
[13:29] <ogra> *way
[13:29] <ogra> though the VM is indeed best for testing the results
[13:30] <ynezz> I've never used qemu before and seems, so exploring it and learning how it's working together
[13:30] <ynezz> s/and seems//g
[13:31] <ogra> qemu-arm-static just enables your x86 machine to execute armel binaries so you can create a chroot to build your packages inside
[13:32] <ynezz> ah
[13:33]  * ogra glares at   288 syslog    20   0 39196 6216  820 S 85.4  1.3   7:12.27 rsyslogd on his babbage board
[13:33] <ogra> does anyone else see rsyslogd eating all CPU ?
[13:39] <lool> ogra: Sounds like your kernel is lacking the relevant options
[13:39] <lool> ogra: lp #523468
[13:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 523468 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "rsyslogd gives 100%CPU (dup-of: 523610)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523468
[13:39] <ogra> there are kernel options syslog uses now ?
[13:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 523610 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "rsyslogd spins CPU on older kernels (affects: 34) (dups: 4)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523610
[13:39] <ogra> ah
[13:40] <ogra> apw, ^^^ i see that one with your imx51 testkernel
[13:42] <asac> ogra: i see that on the normal kernel too
[13:42] <asac> its everywhere
[13:42] <ogra> i dont see it on my laptop
[13:44] <ogra> 2.6.32-13-generic-pae
[13:44] <ogra> no messages in kern.log
[13:45] <ogra> well, at least gtk isnt broken on armel ...
[13:45] <ogra> unlike on i386
[13:46] <ogra> my babbage is actually faster than my laptop atm when i use the new gtk libs :)
[13:49] <hrw> ogra: some of my devices are faster then my 2000y pc
[13:49] <ogra> rinning the same desktop ? :)
[13:49] <ogra> *running
[13:50] <hrw> ogra: I keep my devices headless most of time
[13:50] <ogra> right
[13:50] <ogra> thats different :)
[13:50] <hrw> ogra: and in 2000 I used gnome 1.4, then wmaker+roxfiler
[13:50] <ogra> we rarely do headless suff except for building packages here
[13:51] <ogra> one day we'll support the server flavour though ...
[13:51] <ogra> that might change it
[13:51] <hrw> ogra: one day I will connect video cables
[13:51] <ogra> heh
[13:52] <ogra> bah, pybootchartgui crashes again
[13:53] <ogra>   File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/pybootchartgui/parsing.py", line 78, in _parse_proc_ps_log
[13:53] <ogra>     userCpu, sysCpu, stime= int(tokens[13+offset]), int(tokens[14+offset]), int(tokens[21+offset])
[13:53] <ogra> IndexError: list index out of range
[13:53] <ogra> GRRR !
[13:53] <ogra> that was fixed already !
[13:56]  * persia does headless stuff all the time, but only with ubuntu-minimal+pbuilder, which isn't actually useful for doing that much
[14:07] <ogra> gah, who ever wrote pybootchartgui needs a training in python indendation
[14:25] <dmart> asac: Hi... were you going to send out a reminder on the ubuntu-mobile list about the proposed IRC sprint session on Thursday?
[14:29] <lool> dmart: Heya
[14:30] <lool> dmart: Thanks for following on the x264 NEON stuff; do you think you could write the NEON runtime detection in x264 based on /proc/self/auxv instead of SIGILL?
[14:30] <lool> dmart: I poked on #x264dev, and the person I was in contact with was receptive
[14:30] <dmart> I hadn't got that far yet, but I'll have a go.  It didn't look too difficult.
[14:31] <lool> dmart: http://paste.ubuntu.com/381628/
[14:31] <dmart> x264 does at least seem to run on my Babbage3 (but encoding /dev/zero is not a great test :P)
[14:31] <lool> dmart: They do care to have a portable fallback, so you probably want to keep SIGILL on !linux
[14:32] <lool> I have to say I have little sympathy for spending extra cycles supporting chips where NEON is plain broken in hardware with no possible kernel workaround, so I would personally not bother supporting that
[14:32] <lool> But that should work by default if you move to auxv
[14:32] <lool> dmart: The ARM x264 maintainer upstream if Yuvi
[14:33] <suihkulokki> /proc/self/auxv bad. why not read /proc/cpuinfo ?
[14:33] <lool> suihkulokki: Why is /proc/self/auxv bad?
[14:33] <dmart> cpuinfo: contents more volatile than auxv, and also requires parsing
[14:33] <lool> Yeah
[14:33] <dmart> lool: Agreed--- it shouldn't be too much work to have both.
[14:33] <lool> dmart: Thanks
[14:34] <suihkulokki> qemu linux-user :>
[14:34] <lool> dmart: sirestart is reviewing my x264 packaging changes; I think they should be enough for us for now, modulo the SIGILL stuff
[14:34] <lool> suihkulokki: So linux-user emulates cpuinfo now?
[15:00] <apw> ogra, what we seeing there?
[15:01] <ogra> ApOgEE, rsyslogd eating up my CPU
[15:02] <ogra> but apparently thats not armel specific (though i dont see it on my -pae kernel heer on my laptop)
[15:02] <apw> ogra, depends if they have fixed that bug with rsyslogd to not use dd ...
[15:03] <ogra> weird
[15:03]  * ogra checks versions on armel vs x86
[15:04] <ogra> same versions
[15:05] <apw> yeah i think we may be being hurt by the fix for bug #517773
[15:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517773 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "Drop the dd process (affects: 4)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517773
[15:06] <apw> let me confirm that ...
[15:11] <apw> ogra, ok it looks like they have applied the fix for that to userspace, that means that the kernel requires a fix which is only in the .32 kernels; distro and mvl-dove both have it, but not imx51 ... i'm looking at a backport now, should have a test kernel for you shortly ...
[15:11] <ogra> ah, sweet
[15:12] <apw> fingers crossed that is the cause ... its building now
[15:12] <ogra> did i say already, you rock !!
[15:13] <dmart> asac, are patches we add against e.g., mono automatically pinged to Debian?
[15:13] <ogra> nope
[15:14] <asac> dmart: no. debian will complain ;)
[15:15] <asac> dmart: but we are trying to push all patches to them
[15:15] <ogra> we need to file bugs
[15:15] <lool> apw, ogra: Right that's what I suspected, kernel fix missing; thanks for looking into it
[15:15] <asac> dmart: at best our patch would work for them
[15:15] <ogra> lool, thanks for saving me to search LP for the issue :)
[15:16] <apw> versions skew sucks ... at least the dove kernels get these fixes for free via rebase
[15:16] <apw> makes life > 2x harder
[15:16] <lool> dmart: usually, we either send them on the spot or during merges (beginning of a cycle), sometimes we send them straight to upstream, that works well too
[15:16]  * apw sorly wishes that arm kernels would build as fast on the buildds as they do on his hoover
[15:17] <ogra> just send your hoover to the DC ?
[15:17] <lool> apw: True; TBH I'm slightly worried that we're building our userspace against 2.6.32 headers and then running a 2.6.31 kernel on top
[15:17] <ogra> lool, we had plenty discussions about that already :)
[15:17] <lool> e.g. eglibc picked up pselect() support thanks to it landing upstream, and that exposed the fact that it was missing in qemu -- not a big deal, but it's also missing in linux-fsl-imx51 for instance
[15:17] <ogra> (sprint discussions)
[15:17] <apw> yeah ... its not in the least bit idea
[15:17] <apw> i wish the arm vendors would just to the sensible thing, and track mainline
[15:18] <lool> apw: Marvell isn't too bad here though
[15:18] <ogra> lool, cooloney does what he can to backport features we find
[15:18] <hrw> apw: ha! who would not...
[15:18] <ogra> but what we dont find wont be backported
[15:18] <apw> lool, indeed they are most enlightened
[15:18] <hrw> I have device here with .27.2 kernel as production one
[15:18] <apw> i only have to rebase their kernel and i don't hit this issue
[15:19] <ogra> hrw, would have issues with recent ubuntu :)
[15:20] <ogra> our userspace often ties deeply into kernel features
[15:20] <dmart> asac: not sure if you saw my message earlier--- was someone going to send out a reminder about the IRC porting sprint on Thursday?
[15:20] <lool> ogra: similarly with epoll and plymouth
[15:20] <lool> Did you folks backport epoll_create(0 and friends to linux-fsl-imx51?
[15:20] <lool> *epoll_create()
[15:21] <lool> dmart: Sprinting on Thursday sounds bad
[15:21] <lool> A3 this Thursday
[15:21] <lool> We will likely be stuck in the European morning
[15:21] <apw> but everything we are doing has to be done by tommorrow
[15:21] <ogra> lool, i dont think so, but i dont see the issue i see in qemu on imx51
[15:21] <apw> so one would expect anyone not on the release team to be lying by the pool (obviously)
[15:22] <lool> ogra: It might have been part of the pselect support patch
[15:22] <ogra> ah
[15:22] <asac> dmart: yes, i have to
[15:22] <apw> i thought pselect was one of those which was dynamicaly selected at runtime
[15:22] <dmart> Sounds from lool that it might be better to move it?
[15:22] <ogra> apw, not generally, but just for A3, no ? i mean kernel freeze is still a bit or not ?
[15:23] <apw> kernel freeze is march the 11th officially, which means i need it by the 8th
[15:23] <lool> oh yeah kernel freeze is march 11
[15:24] <ogra> so there is still a week past A3
[15:24] <ogra> for bad stuff we identify
[15:24] <ogra> and beyond that if its a bug it should still be fixable post-freeze, no ?
[15:24] <lool> Hmm I don't see pselect support in fsl-imx51, am I reading this wrong?
[15:24] <apw> after freeze we move to an sru style bug fix policy
[15:25] <ogra> uuh
[15:25] <apw> lool i don't think i expect it to be there no
[15:25] <apw> i thought it was fakes (badly) in libc
[15:25] <ogra> yes
[15:25] <apw> you'ld surly know by now if it was an issue
[15:26] <apw> as you are testing with those kernels ... today
[15:26] <lool> (I'm not testing imx51)
[15:26] <apw> you as in mobile
[15:26] <lool> Ack, just clarifying
[15:26] <apw> and anyone changing libc better be testing with mvl-dove and fsl-imx51 ... lest we have to send boys with big cluebats round to visit them
[15:27]  * lool whistles and notes not to touch libc
[15:28] <apw> :)
[15:42] <apw> ogra, ok some new kernels with that additional patch, apw2 kernels here: http://people.canonical.com/~apw/fsl-imx51-lucid/
[15:42]  * ogra wgets
[15:42] <apw> feedback appreciated as soon as you can :)
[15:49] <ogra>   504 syslog    20   0 33280 1296  828 S  0.3  0.3   0:00.12 rsyslogd
[15:49] <ogra> apw, looks fine
[15:49] <apw> ogra, awsome, good catch ...
[15:49] <apw> i'll get that puppy uploaded now
[15:49] <ogra> kern.log is quiet too
[15:49] <ogra> \o/
[16:13] <apw> ogra, would i be right in saying we don't really have any out of tree drivers for mvl-dove (indeed any arm branches)
[16:15] <ogra> no idea, NCommander does dove
[16:16]  * NCommander points apw to ericm as the dove kernel guy
[16:16] <NCommander> apw: as far as I know, we don't aside from any DKMS'ed kernel modules a user may install (although I'm not sure any would work for ARM)
[16:17] <ogra> virtualbox on dove !
[16:17] <apw> yeah ... eric isn't available in the timeframe for this decision.  i am trying to avoid uploading the mvl-dove kernel just for a compiler bump ... if there arn't any out of tree drivers then i don't need to bother and can save 6 hours of buildd time
[16:19] <ogra> plars, can you check if go-home-applet works on your babbage ?
[16:19] <ogra> its a no-op on mine
[16:19] <ogra> and seems to cause the system to crawl
[16:19] <plars> ogra: did they fix the dependency stuff with it?
[16:19] <ogra> well, it depends on netbook-launcher
[16:19] <plars> ogra: it used to depend on the 3d launcher, which removed efl launcher
[16:20] <ogra> since we install netbook-launcher by default now in the images it is installable
[16:20] <ogra> the dep was solved
[16:20] <ogra> but i doubt that fixes anything
[16:20] <ogra> at least it doesnt for me here
[16:20] <plars> ogra: ah, I'll check it out
[16:23] <plars> ogra: trying it a dove live image at the moment
[16:23] <plars> ogra: it seems to come up, but doesn't work well
[16:23] <ogra> go-home or the image ?
[16:23] <plars> ugh
[16:23] <plars> it looks like it actually restarts the launcher when you click it
[16:24] <ogra> yeah
[16:24] <plars> doesn't bring it to the foreground
[16:24] <NCommander> apw: then assume we don't have an out of tree module; if there are, theres nothing critical as I've booted systems without any external modules before
[16:24] <ogra> i saw multiple launcher processes here
[16:24]  * NCommander is 99% sure we don't
[16:24] <plars> ogra: yes, that's exactly what it's doing - starting a new netbook-laucnher-efl each time you click it
[16:24] <apw> yeah NCommander i tend to agree i cannot imagine there are any
[16:25] <ogra> plars, sick !
[16:26] <plars> ogra: I'll put a bug in on it, unless you care to
[16:26] <ogra> no, feel free :)
[16:26] <plars> ogra: I wonder if that's how it foregrounds it with the 3d launcher, but the 3d one is smarter about checking to see if there's already a process and just foregrounds it instead of starting a new one
[16:27] <ogra> m,ight be
[16:27] <ogra> it doesnt minimize anything though
[16:27] <ogra> what i always wonder is what go-home gains us over show-desktop
[16:27] <ogra> we should probably just use a modified show-desktop
[16:28] <plars> ogra: it does interact with webfav
[16:28] <ogra> do we use anything like that in the 2D image ? #
[16:28] <plars> ogra: you should be able to drag a url to gha and have it add the favorite to the desktop
[16:28] <ogra> ah, right
[16:29] <plars> presently, it does not seem to work
[16:33] <ogra> plars, log out doesnt work for me either it seems
[16:33] <ogra> i get an apport report
[16:33] <plars> ogra: there's a bug about that
[16:33] <plars> ogra: I just asked for more information on it
[16:33] <ogra> yes, i just saw your comment and clicked it :)
[16:33] <ogra> (clicked log out here)
[16:33] <plars> ah, ok
[16:33] <plars> worked when I tested it, hmm
[16:33] <ogra> the efl window pops up, i click log-out and the launcher dies
[16:34] <ogra> are you up to date with the latest ?
[16:34] <plars> ogra: I'm running off the dove live image at the moment, so it should be close if not absolutely current
[16:34] <plars> I did not update from there though
[16:34] <plars> oh wait
[16:34] <ogra> 0.2.2-0ubuntu3
[16:34] <plars> which logout did you click?
[16:34] <ogra> the one of the launcher
[16:34] <plars> ogra: the one in the... yeah
[16:35] <plars> I don't think that one should exist
[16:35] <ogra> right
[16:35] <plars> I filed a separate bug about that
[16:35] <ogra> but as long as it does thats indeed a bug :)
[16:35] <plars> the correct logout using indicator-applet-session does work though
[16:35] <plars> ogra: certainly
[16:35] <ogra> it makes the launcher commit suicide
[19:22] <zul> hi, If possible can someone look at this for me? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39001967/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.squid_2.7.STABLE7-1ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[19:24] <persia> zul: Related to what I was saying in -mobile, have you tried with an emulated pbuilder or sbuild locally?
[19:24] <zul> persia: trying it now
[19:32] <zul> persia: heh still broken
[19:36] <persia> zul: emulated, or give-back?
[19:37] <zul> give-back
[19:40] <persia> OK.  Next best test (assuming you don't have hardware) is to try an emulated build.
[19:40] <persia> There's a few syscalls that don't work, so this doesn't work for everything (e.g. gh6 can't be built), but generally with lucid one can build an emulated chroot that works fairly well.
[19:41] <persia> There's also some support in karmic, but that doesn't support as many syscalls, so one ends up with massive build logs.
[19:41] <persia> Do you have a lucid install available for i386 or amd64?
[19:42] <zul> yep
[19:42] <persia> OK.  Do you prefer pbuilder or sbuild?
[19:44] <zul> sbuild
[19:44]  * persia checks the current ubuntu-dev-tools for the tool name
[19:45] <persia> OK.  So run `mk-sbuild-lv --arch=armel ${VG} lucid`, and you should end up with an emulated build chroot.
[19:46] <persia> After that, running `sbuild -d lucid-armel *dsc` should try to build you armel binaries.
[19:46] <zul> persia: cool thanks
[19:46] <persia> Thanks for helping out with the porting.  Please come back if you get stuck.
[19:46] <persia> Some people have various hardware and can test various things, but hardware is variable and thin on the ground right now.
[20:19] <ynezz> linux-image-2.6.32-14-versatile_2.6.32-14.20_armel.deb should work with karmic qemu image? Seems like it hates me http://ynezz.true.cz/qemu.png
[20:22] <ynezz> and lucid image with that kernel ends with http://ynezz.true.cz/qemu-lucid.png
[20:22] <lool> ynezz: Which image is that?
[20:22] <ynezz> rootstock's
[20:23] <lool> I'm not sure what rootstock does for karmic and /dev; in theory, it should be possible to start a karmic userspace with this kernel
[20:23] <lool> In fact I think I did last week
[20:23] <lool> With a slightly older kernel and slighlty older karmic userspace
[20:23] <lool> Concerning lucid, I suspect you're not getting to the network up state, so gettys aren't spawned
[20:24] <lool> Usually this is due to lack of etc/network/interfaces or NetworkManager
[20:24] <lool> ynezz: For karmic, I'd try loop mounting your fs and checking what's in /dev
[20:24] <ynezz> this is command for karmic http://pastebin.com/f3f1b0023
[20:25] <ynezz> lool: I tried that, /dev seems ok and populated
[20:25] <lool> ynezz: Does /dev have a /dev/pts dir?
[20:25] <ynezz> yep
[20:26] <lool> Ok, probably a tmpfs gets mounted instead of /dev and isn't filled properly
[20:26] <lool> You could probably workaround by poking at /lib/init/fstab in the image, but that's only a hack
[20:26] <ynezz> looks so
[20:26] <lool> I would need to reproduce, but I don't have an up-to-date rootstock here
[20:27] <lool> I'll leave that one with a more recent environment that mine
[20:28] <ynezz> I can upload that image if it helps you
[20:29] <lool> ynezz: What you can do is look into the early boot scripts, these are etc/init/mount*.conf
[20:29] <lool> ynezz: They have dependencies between each other
[20:30] <lool> I usually start by changing the mountall.conf one to be a task instead of a job and to not daemonize and to be verbose
[20:31] <lool> ynezz: something like http://ynezz.true.cz/qemu.png
[20:31] <lool> err sorry http://ynezz.true.cz/qemu.png
[20:31] <lool> Uh
[20:31] <lool> my paste buffer is broken
[20:31] <ynezz> happens to me all the time
[20:32] <lool> How anoying, I can't paste into that xterm
[20:32] <lool> ynezz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/381816/
[20:33] <lool> ynezz: For your lucid one, either add NM or add a etc/network/interfaces with the lo interface, e.g. "auto lo" and "iface lo inet loopback"
[20:49] <ynezz> lool: will try, thanks
[21:23] <lool> zul: Only happens in -O2 builds, does not happen with -O0
[21:23] <lool> zul: You have a bug?
[21:32] <zul> lool: sure gimme a sec
[21:33] <zul> lool: #519897
[21:35] <DanaG> hmm, are there any plans to provide official beagleboard kernels?
[21:35] <DanaG> RIght now, I get this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/523610
[21:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 523610 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "rsyslogd spins CPU on older kernels (affects: 34) (dups: 4)" [High,Triaged]
[21:39] <lool> Bah squid isn't dpkg-buildpackage -j safe  :-(
[21:39] <lool> DanaG: Not yet, no
[21:39] <lool> DanaG: Your issue is fixed in newer kernels, but we should also fix it in userspace
[21:39] <DanaG> Are there any ubuntu-official beagleboard kernels?
[21:40] <DanaG> I'm using this kernel, for now: http://rcn-ee.net/deb/kernel/beagle/lucid/v<IP_ADDRESS>-l8.0/
[21:40] <DanaG> (also, I keep getting "class suspend failed for cpu 0".)
[21:40] <DanaG> when I try to echo mem > /sys/power/state
[21:41] <lool> zul: I got it to crash under qemu as well, but I couldn't gdb from the qemu-arm-static env, so I ran a real vm and there gdb would work but had no debug info
[21:41] <lool> zul: Rebuilding with -O0 -g and it wouldn't crash
[21:41] <zul> lool: k thanks
[21:42] <lool> zul: Looks like a toolchain issue or a bug in the generator
[21:42] <lool> DanaG: These are the most officials one, but they are still unofficial  ;-)
[21:43] <DanaG> ah.
[21:43] <DanaG> And the -33-rc ones seem to not exist.
[21:43] <lool> DanaG: Perhaps you can backport the relevant commit, or just wait for the userspace fix
[21:43] <DanaG> I can just wait for now.  Or compile my own kernel, yeah.
[21:43] <lool> DanaG: Check with rcn; he might have some .33 kernels somewhere
[21:44] <lool> DanaG: You could also disable rsyslog or something
[21:44] <DanaG> What's weird is that, on my host, even 2.6.33-rc8 has the same cpu-spin (on my laptop).
[21:44] <lool> zul: I've sub-ed ~ubuntu-armel
[21:46] <lool> DanaG: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-lucid.git;a=commit;h=e86296585519f091bb24b17f84950a8edcbf0cc1
[21:47] <lool> that's the 2.6.31 backport
[21:48] <lool> DanaG: upstream commit is 002345925e6c45861f60db6f4fc6236713fd8847
[21:50] <lool> Not sure from which tree though, apparently not torvalds
[21:51] <lool> http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/2/2/13


[00:57] <philipballew> what kernel is 11.10 gonna have
[00:58] <rww> 3.0
[00:59] <rww> I think it's Linux 3.0.3 specifically right now
[00:59] <philipballew> hum. i need to find out when 3.2 comes out or just manually install a wifi driver for a friend
[00:59] <philipballew> hrd to tell sometimes
[01:44] <gua> philipballew: rolling your own packages is kind of nice for situations like that. you can set the package to conflict with the kernel that has the driver, so if/when they upgrade to the kernel that has the driver, your package will be automatically uninstalled
[01:47] <philipballew> gua, is there an easy way to turn http://homepage.uibk.ac.at/~c705283/archives/2011/09/04/linux_support_for_broadcom_4331_wireless_chip_macbook_pro_81/index.html what this is telling me to do into a few clicks deb?
[01:48] <philipballew> i'm trying to help a friend with his new install of ubuntu
[01:48] <gua> philipballew: anything you can script you can put into a deb
[01:48] <gua> there are preinstall and postinstall scripts you can do all kind of fancy things with
[01:49] <gua> although if creating the package is "easy" or not is up to each person
[01:49] <philipballew> hum. i just dont see "the average ubuntu" user compiling anything you know what i mean?
[01:51] <gua> philipballew: yeah, ideally that would be the case
[01:53] <philipballew> but its not gonna be in till the 3.2 kernal or something
[02:07] <gua> philipballew: hm. well for it to remove itself you need to know what version of the kernel will have the driver. so you could have one package that doesn't conflict, but then make an updated version of the package that does conflict when you do know
[02:09] <philipballew> maybe i could make a ppa
[02:12] <philipballew> but gua I need to learn packaging better
[02:17] <gua> philipballew: yeah but this is a good opportunity! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
[02:18] <gua> for custom personal packages you can cut corners in a lot of places, if you want
[02:19] <philipballew> how long gua would you say it takes to learn packaging?
[02:20] <gua> philipballew: i'm not really sure. i'm still learning myself.
[02:21] <philipballew> to build your own probably not to long
[02:53] <seidos> anyone else watch hanna last night?
[02:55] <seidos> oh, and hi everybody!
[02:56] <gua> hi dr nick
[02:56] <seidos> gua!
[02:56] <gua> who is hanna and why are people watching her?
[02:56] <gua> seidos!
[02:56] <seidos> it's the title of a movie
[02:56] <seidos> and a character in said movie
[02:56] <gua> oh right, that looks good
[02:56] <gua> was it on tv or something?
[02:56] <seidos> i just watched it
[02:56] <seidos> i'm going to watch trading places next
[02:57] <gua> i haven't seen it
[02:57] <gua> haha. you're doing the last season i take it
[02:57] <seidos> last season?
[02:57] <gua> of movies
[02:57] <gua> those both sound like they've been in theatres recently
[02:58] <seidos> nah, i'm going with what they are doing with this fadnight madnight thing in ##club-ubuntu
[02:58] <seidos> "hanna" was 2011, "trading places" was like 1983
[02:59] <gua> ah that's neat
[02:59] <seidos> word
[16:31]  * nhaines loves ramen.
[16:47] <nhaines> akk: do you love ramen too?
[16:48] <akk> "love" might be overstating it, but I like it
[16:48] <nhaines> I just finished some instant ramen.  It was nice.
[16:55] <kdub> yuk
[16:57] <seidos> for some reason ramen that's wrapped in those bags are better than in a cup
[16:57] <seidos> plus, you can add peas and corn to it
[16:57] <akk> Agreed, the bag kind is much better than the cup kind.
[16:57] <nhaines> You can do that with the cup, too, although this cup ramen already had peas and corn.
[16:57] <seidos> it's just not the same
[16:57] <akk> I like adding broccoli or mixed veggies.
[16:57] <bkerensa> There is this Sake factory in Berkeley they make amazing Cherry Sake and serve Ramen plus they have a glass floor and the factory is below :D
[16:58] <nhaines> Unfortunately I stick to cup ramen at work for the convenience.  At least I have my own chopsticks.
[16:58] <akk> The cup kind, I think, pre-cooks the noodles more and the noodles are shorter (to fit in the cup).
[16:58] <seidos> ramen and sake?  that's different
[16:58] <akk> You can do the bag kind in a microwave too, but you have to have a big bowl.
[16:58] <seidos> sake and udon sounds feasible...but ramen?  that's news.
[16:59] <seidos> does it taste the same akk?
[16:59] <seidos> never microwaved the bag kind
[16:59] <nhaines> akk: it's only the bowl I lack, not the desire.  :)
[16:59] <akk> It does! Nuke the water alone for about 6.5 min, then put the noodles & powder in,
[16:59] <akk> cover with a plate and let it sit for another 5 or so min.
[16:59] <seidos> interesting, more efficient to microwave.  will have to do that
[16:59] <akk> It's a lot quicker and easier than using a pot on the stove.
[17:00] <nhaines> How are we making bag ramen without a microwave?  Pot of water on the stove?
[17:00] <seidos> "we" aren't.
[17:00] <nhaines> Today I just used the hot water from the coffee machine.  Might start nuking, though, but I don't have a spouted cup.
[17:01] <seidos> that's another option, we have an electric water boiler
[17:01] <bkerensa> May sound gross but try Parmesan cheese in the Ramen
[17:01] <akk> Water from the coffee machine works with cup ramen but probably not with bagged (those precooked noodles).
[17:01] <seidos> doesn't sound gross to me, but i'm a freak
[17:01] <akk> I used to know someone who lived almost entirely on noodles&parmesan.
[17:01] <nhaines> akk: probably not.  The vegetables weren't rehydrated properly anyway.
[17:02] <seidos> it's essentially cheese and bread
[17:02]  * akk hasn't had parmesan in a long time, married to someone who has an anti-parmesan gene, literally
[17:02] <bkerensa> lol
[17:02] <tardis> that exists?
[17:02]  * bkerensa buys a big thing of it every month
[17:02] <bkerensa> :D
[17:02] <bkerensa> costco size
[17:03] <akk> It does! There's a gene that makes parmesan smell like vomit and makes lobster and crab completely tasteless.
[17:03] <tardis> akk: ... that explains so much
[17:03] <akk> Same gene, apparently. (Bodies are so cool.)
[17:03] <bkerensa> although my eating habits are negligent towards my health
[17:03] <bkerensa> :P
[17:03]  * bkerensa also has a mini fridge stocked with fizz beverages always
[17:04] <akk> A different gene makes broccoli and cabbage relatives taste bitter to some people.
[17:04] <bkerensa> akk: do you like kimchi?
[17:04] <akk> no
[17:04] <tardis> science is awesome
[17:05] <akk> well, I like japanese kimchee, not the fermented korean kind
[17:05] <nhaines> Oh, I've only had the fermented Korean kind.
[17:07] <akk> The Japanese kind is just cabbage mildly picked (in vinegar, I think).
[17:07] <nhaines> Frankly if i pickled cabbage and stored it and it came out like kimchi after storage, I wouldn't have eaten it.
[17:07] <seidos> for some reason vinegar reeks on its own, but i <3 pickled things
[17:08] <seidos> perhaps it requires spices to taste decent
[17:08] <seidos> hey MarkDude
[17:08] <akk> Same here -- I dislike the smell of vinegar, and can't stand mustard or tabasco because they're so vinegary
[17:09] <akk> but it's just fine in salad dressing or pickles, go figure
[17:09] <bkerensa> Has anyone ever ate Silkworm Pupa?
[17:09] <seidos> i <3 mustard and don't hate tabasco
[17:09] <MarkDude> Hello seidos , everyone
[17:10] <akk> hi MarkDude
[17:10] <nhaines> bkerensa: hard to say... I don't always study my salads before I start eating them...
[17:10]  * bkerensa might try Silkworm Pupa for the first time tomorrow.... I said on my blog that if I win the About.me NYC Time Square Contest I would eat a can of Silkworm Pupa from Korea
[17:10] <bkerensa> =o
[17:10] <bkerensa> and as of right now I'm somewhere in the lead with 1100 votes =)
[17:11] <seidos> it can't taste any worse than this green powder drink that i've been drink
[17:12] <bkerensa> seidos: idk my cousin's husband ate some during their honeymoon in Korea and almost warfed.... For some reason they brought me a can
[17:12]  * MarkDude might try a pupa, fusion cuising with a pupusa, just for the alliterative value
[17:12] <MarkDude> Good writing on your blog bkerensa
[17:12] <akk> pupa pupusas!
[17:13]  * MarkDude thought the headline for the tech crunch thing might have been toooo much, UNTIL I read the stuff their CEO dude said,
[17:14] <bkerensa> lol
[17:14] <bkerensa> yeah
[17:14] <bkerensa> Editor
[17:14] <MarkDude> Do you know how hard it is to out douchbag Miki Arrington?
[17:14] <MarkDude> sp ^^^^ needs an e
[17:14] <bkerensa> and Erick Schonfeld is a nobody... He just sucked up to Arianna Huffington in a attempt to stab Michael Arrington on his way out
[17:14] <bkerensa> MarkDude: It is pretty hard
[17:15] <MarkDude> Arrington is the gold standard
[17:15] <MarkDude> So this dude might be platinum
[17:15] <MarkDude> :D
[17:17] <bkerensa> MarkDude: I might steam down to San Francisco from Charleston, OR with my cousin in a month or two if I go work on his boat for a bit
[17:18] <MarkDude> Awesome
[17:18] <MarkDude> please tell me it somehow involves you wearing 3 piece old timey suit, as well as top hat
[17:19] <MarkDude> Possibly a monocle
[17:19] <bkerensa> Yeah :D I wanna go out to sea... Its been awhile but I don't like the idea of sleeping on the sea on a medium vessel
[17:19] <bkerensa> lol
[17:19] <bkerensa> nah will be doing some crabbing
[17:19]  * MarkDude will help start kickstarter for such a purpose
[17:20] <bkerensa> :P
[17:26] <MarkDude> Silkworms are most likely tasty when fried
[17:26] <MarkDude> as most things are
[17:26] <MarkDude> Mmmm, crunchy
[17:26] <akk> Or drenched in garlic butter -- if it works for snails, it'll surely work for silkworms.
[17:27]  * MarkDude is hella glad this was all logged, future generations to have ideas of our culinary sensibilities :D
[17:27] <MarkDude> Garlic butter - FTW
[17:27]  * akk pities anyone who reads the logs for this channel
[17:28] <MarkDude> lol
[17:28] <MarkDude> 20% MarkDude ramblin' crap
[17:28] <MarkDude> XD
[17:28] <MarkDude> Better than when my % was higher
[17:29]  * MarkDude suggests the topic here could read, now with 50% MarkDude's crazy ramblings
[17:29]  * bkerensa will never eat snails
[17:30] <bkerensa> although I did eat Foie Gras at the Yelp Party on Saturday http://youtu.be/rXkt7USXIPw
[17:31] <seidos> akk what's worse, reading the logs, or chatting live?  o_o
[17:31] <bkerensa> and it was good but not something I would ever buy.... It tasted like a salty yet fruity mousse
[17:31] <seidos> what's everyone doing today?  i need some ideas
[17:32] <seidos> i was considering riding down wilshire and walking into buildings that looked interesting
[17:32] <nhaines> I'm working.
[17:32] <seidos> either that or finding solitude in a public park
[17:32] <akk> We'll be (I hope) picking up a CD of PETscan results, after which I can spend the next month trying to figure out how to read them in Linux.
[17:32] <seidos> j-o-b
[17:33] <bkerensa> seidos: Uhh... reviewing gadgets today
[17:33] <nhaines> I should review gadgets.
[17:34] <bkerensa> indeed
[17:34]  * bkerensa is kinda irritated at once company right now
[17:34] <bkerensa> they sent me two of their fancy mouses and they do not work on Linux
[17:36] <bkerensa> I guess at this point I might soon setup a Windows 7 box just for Windows specific products =/ but this kinda hit me from left field
[17:36] <rww> Mice that don't work on Linux? Even Microsoft isn't that silly.
[17:36]  * rww snuggles his Intellimouse
[17:36] <bkerensa> LOL
[17:36] <bkerensa> rww: Yeah Smartfish
[17:37]  * bkerensa needs to make friends with a PR nerd from Logitech... Maybe MarkDude knows someone ;)
[17:39] <MarkDude> Uh, Nixie Pixel
[17:39] <MarkDude> She wants to help the Cali Ubuntu team more
[17:40] <MarkDude> Oregon is not that far away, plus your publicity skills are 2nd to none bkerensa
[17:41] <MarkDude> https://picasaweb.google.com/105095769731159704550/NixiePixelLogitechTreyarch#5537406551541712482
[17:42] <bkerensa> MarkDude: I just need to know who the AOR is for Logitech
[17:43] <MarkDude> I am talking to Nixie this week sometime, I can ask her
[17:44] <MarkDude> She found a place in SF, most likely
[17:44] <MarkDude> Near Death Guild no less ( a goth club)
[17:46] <pleia2> isn't it DNA Lounge which hosts Death Guild?
[17:47] <pleia2> yeah
[17:47] <MarkDude> Yep
[17:47] <MarkDude> Where we had the Karmic Koala party
[17:47]  * pleia2 nods
[17:48] <pleia2> I have friends there, but we all remember what I said about parties ;)
[17:54] <bkerensa> MarkDude: Have you ever been to the MoonStar restaurant in SF?
[18:02]  * MarkDude went there with Nixie and like 10 geeks. One of the most bizarre experiences in my life.
[18:03]  * MarkDude know weird, so consider the relativeness
[18:06] <iheartubuntu> hi all. Im trying to help a wheelchair bound ubuntu user here in SoCal. He visited us at the recent Ubuntu Hour and is having dial up problems.
[18:06] <iheartubuntu>  I visited him to try and solve his issues, but got no where :)
[18:07] <iheartubuntu> when using gnome-ppp or kppp (or even wvdial) i get a NO CARRIER message
[18:07] <iheartubuntu> the modem works and dials out fine, but never connects to his ISP
[18:08] <nhaines> This is a strange definition of "works" to me.
[18:08] <iheartubuntu> I signed up to another ISP and get the same NO CARRIER results
[18:08]  * rww gets horrifying flashbacks to AOL dialup on Linux
[18:08] <iheartubuntu> Well, many winmodems just dont work in linux so his does appear to work fine as it does dial out, attempts the connection, etc
[18:09] <iheartubuntu> his dialup did work about a month ago
[18:09] <seidos> was he using linux a month ago?
[18:09] <iheartubuntu> yes
[18:09] <seidos> what changed?
[18:09] <iheartubuntu> he has used ubuntu for 5 years using this same modem
[18:10] <nhaines> If the modem doesn't connect regardless of the other end and times out, his modem doesn't actually appear to work.
[18:10] <iheartubuntu> im having a difficult time finding another modem (that doesnt cost $50)
[18:10] <nhaines> Does the modem work with DOS or Windows?
[18:10] <seidos> it works to a degree if it dials
[18:10] <iheartubuntu> i was unable to test this
[18:10] <nhaines> (And yes, modems cost around $50.)
[18:11] <iheartubuntu> he has an external modem
[18:11] <iheartubuntu> im going to start a ticket with his ISP to see if the problem is on their end also, but the other ISP i signed up for does not connect either
[18:11] <seidos> so the version of ubuntu changed, and now he can't connect iheartubuntu ?
[18:11] <nhaines> That makes it pretty clear it's not the ISP.
[18:11] <iheartubuntu> he has been using 10.04 LTS for a while now
[18:12] <nhaines> I'd test to see if it worked with a different OS, and I'd check to see if it works with different phone lines.
[18:12] <iheartubuntu> I have tried various init strings also with no positive effect
[18:13] <iheartubuntu> he is on an extremely fixed income so DSL is a last resort
[18:14] <nhaines> No one suggested that.
[18:14] <iheartubuntu> he did
[18:14] <seidos> it's the elephant in the room
[18:14] <nhaines> It's not really.  The modem hasn't been properly tested.
[18:14] <nhaines> Do that first, then worry about replacing it.
[18:15] <iheartubuntu> there are several wifi networks in his area
[18:15] <iheartubuntu> i recommended paying $5 to a neighbor or something for a connection
[18:15] <nhaines> You can probably get cheap DSL for $20 with slow speeds, so that might not be out of the question.  But the modem hasn't been properly tested.
[18:15] <iheartubuntu> He is paying like $7 for dial up right now
[18:16] <iheartubuntu> nhaines... picking your brain... your next step would be test them modem elsewhere? another computer? another OS? another phone line?
[18:17] <nhaines> Yes, in that order.
[18:17] <iheartubuntu> another problem he is having.... during boot up the modem attempts to dial out
[18:17] <iheartubuntu> before the computer reaches the login screen
[18:17] <iheartubuntu> he said this is a new thing that started happening a month ago also
[18:17] <nhaines> That's a computer configuration issue.
[18:18] <iheartubuntu> he said someone came over to help him and he did not remember if the person installed stuff or not
[18:18] <iheartubuntu> i did not see anything added out of the norm
[18:19] <iheartubuntu> the computer itself is buggy and the cdrom never worked to run ubuntu as a livecd
[18:20] <nhaines> Then there's no reason to expect anything else to work either.
[18:20] <nhaines> How did he install Linux?
[18:21] <iheartubuntu> someone did it for him
[18:21] <iheartubuntu> and they all arent returning his calls anymore
[18:22] <iheartubuntu> the USB was buggy too
[18:22] <iheartubuntu> sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldnt
[18:32] <iheartubuntu> thanks nhaines i will give it shot
[18:40]  * greg-g is finally back in SF from Warsaw
[18:40] <pleia2> welcome back
[18:42] <iheartubuntu> how was warsaw?
[18:58] <greg-g> warsaw was awesome. Definitely a great city to visit
[18:58] <greg-g> I wish i had more time there
[18:58] <nhaines> Sounds like the system may be failing, and Linux is often much less forgiving of bad hardware than Windows.  Might be time for him to start saving for a new computer.
[19:01] <akk> I missed the middle of the convo, but sometimes dialup sites change a protocol or something, and dialup software has to be adjusted to compensate.
[19:01] <akk> I remember needing to do that now and then when I used dialup.
[19:02] <akk> (Come to think of it, I've had to do something similar with wifi too.)
[19:03] <nhaines> akk: there's a bit where it's slowly revealed that the CD drive didn't work to run a live CD, the USB ports are buggy, the system generally is buggy, and the user didn't install Linux himself.
[19:03]  * kdub 's shiny new desktop parts come today
[19:04] <DarkwingDuck> If things work out, this is going to be an EPIC SCaLE
[19:04] <akk> oh, that does sound bad, nhaines
[19:05] <iheartubuntu> since i have to make a trip to his place, im going to contact his ISP in a futile attempt to save driving time. maybe they can offer some advice... although his ISP is low cost and the one I found is free dialup... both have the end result of "no carrier"
[19:05] <iheartubuntu> he is using lafn.org
[19:06] <iheartubuntu> and i signed up for http://www.socalfree.net/
[19:07] <DarkwingDuck> nhaines: UbuCon is good to go for SCaLE.
[19:22] <raevol> DarkwingDuck: :D
[19:41] <iheartubuntu> nahaines - could you suggest anything I could do to check why the dialup modem would be dialing out on boot up? It seems odd to me any program would attempt this on boot up. Both gnome-ppp and kppp require user to open the program first to connect.
[19:44] <akk> Doesn't ubuntu try to do various networky things when it starts up ... thus triggering any "automatically start the network" scripts that might be set up?
[19:45] <akk> NTP, perhaps
[19:49] <iheartubuntu> the person Im helping said it never did this "before"
[19:49] <iheartubuntu> and the only thing i can think of is... before someone last came and helped him
[19:50] <iheartubuntu> he doesnt have much to back up... evolution file, bookmarks, and some docs. He has an 8GB chip which should be overkill unless his evolution file contains 20 years worth of emails (which it might!)
[19:51] <iheartubuntu> im even considering wiping and doing a fresh install
[19:51] <iheartubuntu> maybe i can bring an external DVD drive and an USB drive with ubuntu on it and do the install
[19:51] <iheartubuntu> one of those will work, eventually.
[19:52] <iheartubuntu> i think this would clear up whatever other people have done to his machine
[19:52] <nhaines> he has what kind of chip?
[19:52] <iheartubuntu> in the modem
[19:53] <iheartubuntu> ?
[19:53] <iheartubuntu> not sure
[19:53] <iheartubuntu> this might help me create the proper init string too if i knew
[19:53] <nhaines> If it's external, it doesn't matter.
[19:53] <nhaines> You said he has an 8GB chip.
[19:53] <iheartubuntu> no? yes, its external
[19:53] <iheartubuntu> yes he does
[19:54] <nhaines> What kind of chip?
[19:54] <iheartubuntu> 8gb USB chip
[19:54] <iheartubuntu> :) kettle cooked potato chip :)
[19:55] <iheartubuntu> not sure if the comp could even boot from a USB stick anyways
[19:55] <nhaines> An 8GB flash drive?
[19:57] <iheartubuntu> correct
[20:03] <nhaines> Well, if his networking is set up properly, the machine will dial out any time it wants to access the network.  And the system will try to bring up networking during startup.  So this is totally normal.
[20:03] <nhaines> I would check /etc/network/interfaces to make sure it's not configured there.
[20:06] <iheartubuntu> i thought dialup is no longer added in network manager anymore
[20:06] <iheartubuntu> so i was using gnome-ppp instead
[20:15] <iheartubuntu> I got through to his ISP
[20:15] <iheartubuntu> they said the modem had not made any connections to them in the last month, signifying the modem is failing and to replace it
[20:16] <iheartubuntu> are there any .conf or config files i can check to see if any programs are trying to dial out upon boot up?
[20:33] <MarkDude> Try puppy Linux too, if you can iheartubuntu
[20:34] <MarkDude> The networking options are great. Since boot is so quick, you can try a few ways of doing it
[20:34] <iheartubuntu> I wonder if anyone would have an extra 56k external modem to donate?
[20:35] <MarkDude> The newest 1st, followed by 4.20+, and 2.16+
[20:35]  * MarkDude does
[20:35] <MarkDude> Unless I got rid of them , since I figured they were not used. I am pretty sure I have at least 2 tho
[20:35] <iheartubuntu> the computer he has came from a company, so it is a very small box, no room for an internal modem
[20:56] <kdub> wats a "56k modem"?
[20:57] <iheartubuntu> amen to that
[20:57] <kdub> i think i have one, but the drivers are on a 5" floppy disk ;-)
[20:57] <kdub> zing
[21:01] <seidos> 5.25" zing zing
[21:02] <nhaines> I didn't say anything about Network Manager, I said try checking the setup for /etc/network/interfaces
[21:05] <seidos> iheartubuntu: maybe check craigslist.  it's a long shot, but thrift shops may have something if there are any where you live.
[21:06] <iheartubuntu> hey great idea. i have a few on my way home from work
[21:07] <seidos> yeah!  tell me what they have, maybe i'll get something.  i have $6.  :P
[21:08] <seidos> hi philipballew
[21:08] <iheartubuntu> OK :)
[21:08] <iheartubuntu> i picked up a digital dart board for $5 last time :)
[21:08] <iheartubuntu> now if they only sold beer
[21:08] <seidos> they may have tea
[21:08] <iheartubuntu> from the 1970s
[21:08] <seidos> i <3 tea
[21:09] <seidos> hmmm, would it still be good?
[21:09] <seidos> only one way to find out!
[21:09] <philipballew> hey seidos !!!
[21:09] <seidos> i was drinking a glass of green tea at starbucks last week, and it looked like a glass of pale ale
[21:10] <seidos> too bad they don't have a bar to sit at
[21:11] <seidos> hey philipballew, are things well?
[21:11] <nhaines> I need to reinstate my plan to buy a DEC VT320.
[21:12] <philipballew> i think seidos just doin the college thing
[21:12] <seidos> so many things to buy, so little $
[21:12] <seidos> word
[21:13] <seidos> philipballew: i was thinking of going to west la college to find a nice tree to study under
[21:15] <philipballew> study what?
[21:15] <seidos> gravity
[21:15] <seidos> :D
[21:16] <philipballew> will a apple fall on your head!
[21:16] <seidos> they probably don't have fruit trees :(
[21:16] <philipballew> plant one :)
[21:17] <seidos> and i can't ride my bike to oxford or cambridge
[21:17] <seidos> there's an idea
[21:17] <iheartubuntu> u need fruit?
[21:18] <iheartubuntu> there are some sites on the net with maps marking fruit trees on public properties
[21:18] <seidos> nah, there's a peach in the fridge.  we're stocked here
[21:18] <seidos> there are som fig trees in the neighborhood
[21:18] <seidos> ya, you showed me those.  haven't used them
[21:19] <iheartubuntu> fresh fig jam is selling for $10 a jar in pasadena
[21:19] <iheartubuntu> there is always dumpster diving... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlFJsuBjA0
[21:19]  * seidos muses about public farms
[21:19] <seidos> i am not desperate enough to dumpster dive
[21:19] <iheartubuntu> (interesting video)
[21:19] <iheartubuntu> watch it. might change your mind
[21:20] <seidos> i was thinking if i had to i would just sit at a place, and wait for people to either a. buy me stuff, or b.  throw away stuff
[21:20] <seidos> there's an ashram down the street that does free lunch daily
[21:20] <seidos> well, donations are welcome
[21:43] <iheartubuntu> someone here might like this. converting an old radio into an mp3 speaker... http://artofmanliness.com/2011/09/19/how-to-make-an-old-time-radio-into-an-mp3-player-speaker/
[22:01] <seidos> download files, can't unrar :(
[22:01] <seidos> unrar-free didn't do the trick
[22:04] <seidos> better download diff files, and stay away from rar archives :D
[22:09] <kdub> dang, i missed philballew
[22:09] <kdub> was gonna see if he still needed a grahpics card
[22:10] <seidos> he'll be back, or send him a memo
[22:14] <MarkDude> Way cool link iheartubuntu
[22:15] <iheartubuntu> the vid?
[22:17] <MarkDude> The mps radio thing
[22:18] <iheartubuntu> After seeing other peoples dumpster diving treasures on youtube, i might just have to try it out :)
[22:18] <iheartubuntu> one guy sports a LCD monitor and a wifi card. maybe i can get my modem there :)
[22:31] <seidos> maybe i could find a pair of pants, i need a new pair after i got paint on my jeans
[22:32] <seidos> they had like 3 pairs of pants at good will, for like $7 ea
[22:32] <seidos> but free is better than $
[22:33] <seidos> there is some anime version of marvel comics on g4 tv o_o
[22:34] <seidos> the voice work is pretty sad :(
[22:35] <MarkDude> G4 has gotten more sad since they no longer have Leo
[22:36]  * MarkDude watches that show Morgan Webb is on, and the one with Kevin whats his name
[22:37] <MarkDude> and their usually roving not too good of a role model woman they rotate, Show is decent, although it still offends my UW and Geek Feminism sensibilities
[22:40] <kdub> oh oh, i know. attack of the show
[22:49] <MarkDude> yep that is it
[22:49] <MarkDude> Some of their bits are pretty funny
[22:52] <pleia2> 15:48:44 <&R2D2>  Current Temperature for San Francisco, California: 90 F/32.2 C
[22:52] <pleia2> dislike :(
[22:52] <pleia2> kdub: take your weather back, I don't want it
[22:52] <rww> it's 33°C here :P
[22:52] <akk> pleia2: It's probably not much hotter than that in Burbank!
[22:53] <MarkDude> SF is melting now
[22:53] <pleia2> I suspect this is that one week per year when I hate living in a high rise with no A/C and we start planning massive air conditioning contraptions to fix it :)
[22:54] <pleia2> but then it gets cool again and we say "we surivived! no contraptions needed!"
[22:54] <MarkDude> It rarely gets that hot
[22:54]  * MarkDude does not understand how icce cream stores there stay making money
[22:55] <MarkDude> Get a little kid pool for your living room, maybe cats will join you
[22:55] <pleia2> lol
[22:55] <pleia2> I'll just go hang out on the roof deck after work, even when it's hot the breeze is nice up there :)
[22:56] <MarkDude> You have nice cool ocean sorta close also
[22:56] <MarkDude> Or just go hangout at coffee shop that is cool
[22:56] <pleia2> the ocean is aaaaalll the way on the other side of the city
[22:56] <MarkDude> SF is 7 miles by 7
[22:56] <MarkDude> :D
[22:57] <MarkDude> Not LA miles either
[22:57] <pleia2> yeah, so it's like 6.5 miles away
[22:57] <pleia2> hehe
[23:04] <philipballew> Its weird how its cold here in sd yet hot in nor cal
[23:06]  * MarkDude does not miss Santa Ana winds in SD
[23:06] <MarkDude> 100+ degrees at night time is not fun
[23:07] <philipballew> yeah. in auburn over summer  it was hitin 95 at like 10 pm
[23:07] <pleia2> but SD has air conditioning :)
[23:07] <philipballew> i can see the ocean from here. but i have never ever been.
[23:07] <pleia2> ocean++
[23:08] <philipballew> I took a shower today, it seems about that same
[23:08] <philipballew> same effect right?
[23:08] <pleia2> no, ocean is salty and has fish in it, and sand!
[23:08]  * philipballew is a ocean noob
[23:09] <philipballew> dolphins!
[23:09] <pleia2> I grew up next to the other one
[23:09] <philipballew> ive been to the other one before. Probably goin to nh this summer
[23:09] <seidos> coral!
[23:09] <philipballew> Nemo!!!
[23:09] <seidos> lol
[23:09] <pleia2> nh barely has a coast
[23:09] <pleia2> it's like 2 ft long
[23:10] <philipballew> i can see maines border from its cost!
[23:10] <philipballew> maine is cooler imo
[23:10] <pleia2> I agree
[23:10] <philipballew> i like nh ans there no seatbelt laws
[23:10] <philipballew> *and
[23:11] <philipballew> but thats just me growing up in ca all my life and having something opposite
[23:11] <philipballew> its a different place there
[23:11] <pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/maine/park4.jpg is from the park across the street from where I grew up
[23:12] <pleia2> I practically lived at that park as a kid
[23:12] <philipballew> THats a really good view
[23:12]  * MarkDude has a friend that lived in Hawaii for 7 years and does NOT know how to swim,
[23:12] <MarkDude> thought that was pretty epic
[23:13] <MarkDude> She grew up in Cali also. Dont most of learn to swim when we are younger?
[23:13] <akk> That's really sad.
[23:13] <akk> I have known quite a few californians who couldn't swim.
[23:13] <philipballew> http://www.pointloma.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/landing2_1col_banner/landing2_banner/wiley_0.jpg
[23:13] <MarkDude> It is. She apprently still went in water tho,
[23:14] <akk> It's apparently fairly common in low income/black/hispanic backgrounds.
[23:14] <pleia2> I love water, so learning how to swim was pretty much required
[23:14] <philipballew> ^where I live as well currently
[23:14] <akk> (no easy pool access)
[23:14] <philipballew> do you go swimming now ever pleia2 ?
[23:14] <pleia2> philipballew: nice!
[23:14] <pleia2> well, not in the ocean :)
[23:14] <MarkDude> How often does Maine get really hot?
[23:14] <pleia2> but we travel enough to hotels with pools
[23:15] <pleia2> MarkDude: about one week per year it'll get up in the the 90s for a few days
[23:15] <MarkDude> pleia2: lies, I heard she surfs at Half Moon Bay frequently
[23:15] <MarkDude> :D
[23:15] <pleia2> but the rest of the time it's in the 70s and low 80s in the summer
[23:15] <pleia2> oh yeah, that's me, surfer extraordinaire
[23:15] <pleia2> :P
[23:15] <MarkDude> Lyz and great white sharks
[23:15] <pleia2> sharks are awesome
[23:16] <MarkDude> well awesome at distance
[23:16] <pleia2> or behind glass :)
[23:16] <MarkDude> up close I imagine they could kinda suck
[23:16] <pleia2> sharks in aquariums are fun!
[23:16] <akk> or in documentaries
[23:16] <MarkDude> yes
[23:16] <seidos> worse, they could kinda' bite
[23:16] <philipballew> haha, if your ever in sd ill show you good beaches
[23:17] <akk> philipballew: Bay area ocean water is MUCH colder than LA/SD.
[23:17] <akk> that current coming down from Alaska
[23:17] <seidos> i saw some surfers coming out of the beach when i was last in SF
[23:17]  * MarkDude heard mark S has a sharktank under his desk, and he can push a button to drop people from seat into it (like james Bond villain)
[23:17] <seidos> wetsuits, of course
[23:17] <MarkDude> Even Venice beach was pretty cold
[23:18] <seidos> MarkDude: that's scary.  if Mark S is villain, then who's Bond?
[23:18] <MarkDude> SD really has nice water with suits not normally needed
[23:18] <iheartubuntu> NH is nice!
[23:18] <MarkDude> well, not that he is is bad guy
[23:18] <seidos> the water is cold here, it's been warm once or twice that i've been
[23:18] <seidos> interestingly, the water cleared up when it warmed up too
[23:18] <MarkDude> more that just having options is a rich persons pleasure
[23:19] <seidos> Stallman...Richard Stallman
[23:19] <pleia2> MarkDude: I think you're projecting, YOU want a shark tank under your desk :)
[23:19] <seidos> it kind of works
[23:19]  * MarkDude is sure you would settle more for spring powered ejection seat if you had much money seidos
[23:19] <MarkDude> Not that part Lyz
[23:19] <seidos> i would want a trap door at starbucks
[23:19] <seidos> nobody ever visits me here :P
[23:19] <iheartubuntu> Ive not been to maine though. mostly VT and NH
[23:20] <MarkDude> But the joke I have about Mark S having his own military with Ubuntu logos on their jumpsuits and also jetpacks
[23:20] <seidos> never been to Maine here either.  MD and D.C.'s about it
[23:20] <MarkDude> that is for sure projection on my part
[23:21] <MarkDude> :D. It is one of the reasons I respect him so much. To have ALL that money, and not just be selfish, but to create sumthin like Ubuntu is VERY cool
[23:21]  * MarkDude thinks most of us would think we would do similar, but, may not if actually given the chance
[23:22] <seidos> i'd probably spend all the money and end up penniless
[23:22] <seidos> or, have $6
[23:22] <MarkDude> Since the dude had enough money to buy island, and leave society
[23:22] <MarkDude> I could see you doing that seidos
[23:23] <MarkDude> $ is passing
[23:23] <seidos> probably wouldn't be so bad if i spent it on the right things/orgs/people :P
[23:24] <seidos> ironically, not 4 years ago i couldn't see myself doing something like that
[23:24] <jyo> Dean Kamen (Segway dude) actually bought an island.
[23:25] <seidos> and died?
[23:28] <seidos> nope, different guy
[23:29] <iheartubuntu> you wont be able to dumpster dive if youre the only person on the island though
[23:29] <MarkDude> Well seidos - growth happens
[23:31]  * MarkDude was able to get thru that segway dude dying without making comments about irony
[23:31] <MarkDude> shall continue to do so now (not easy tho.)
[23:31] <iheartubuntu> thanks all for the help today!
[23:32]  * MarkDude will look to see if I have old school modem
[23:32] <MarkDude> btw iheartubuntu , the seeds i got from you have turned out epic
[23:32] <MarkDude> tomoatoes were great. I kept one, gave to 2 other friends
[23:35] <iheartubuntu> wow awesome! my tomatoes are slow this year. maybe i started them too late
[23:35] <iheartubuntu> then again they are all in wine barrels now and not in the ground
[23:36] <akk> Where do you get wine barrels?
[23:36] <MarkDude> Napa
[23:36] <MarkDude> ;)
[23:37] <MarkDude> I have mine in 5 gallon container, and have bottom 20% in ground, they really like that


[00:55] <xubuntu30w> has anyone gotten openvas9 to run on bionic beaver 18.04 yet?
[01:25] <emma> is libreoffice on xubuntu?
[02:04] <parker> Is there a "software center" equivalent? I'm using UbuntuStudio, but it's pretty similar to Xubuntu, no?
[06:53] <Haiku> hey everyone. I have a question: How to install rtorrent in xubuntu?
[06:55] <well_laid_lawn> !info rtorrent
[06:56] <well_laid_lawn> Haiku:  ↑
[06:56] <Haiku> how to install
[06:57] <Haiku> ?
[06:58] <nomenon> Haiku, sudo apt install rtorrent
[06:58] <Haiku> Thanks
[06:59] <nomenon> and in the future
[06:59] <nomenon> apt search packagename
[07:02] <Haiku> Are there any terminal irc clients in linux?
[07:04] <nomenon> Haiku, irssi
[07:04] <nomenon> Haiku, f-irc   lots of others
[07:12] <Haiku> ok :)
[07:13] <well_laid_lawn> I like weechat
[07:14] <Haiku> I want to learn python in linux! Which best book do I need to choose?
[07:17] <nomenon> Haiku, learning python the hard way.
[07:19] <Haiku> php or python in 2018?
[07:19] <nomenon> Haiku, http://automatetheboringstuff.com/
[07:20] <nomenon> Haiku, also google.com  have a nice day :)
[07:22] <Haiku> php or python in 2018?
[07:24] <Haiku> ???
[07:40] <nomenon> :)
[09:19] <xubuntu01w> hai am new to linux and i have install xubuntu am facing issue with my rt2870 wifi adapter driver
[09:20] <xubuntu01w> please any one help me
[09:32] <nomenon_> whats your issue
[09:33] <nomenon_> xubuntu01w, i have two of those stupid wifi chips, there trash :p
[11:23] <ogkloo> so I installed xubuntu 18.04 by upgrading from 16.04, and now X simply refuses to cooperate. I can get to lightdm, but then getting into herbstluftwm or i3 for instance, practically nothing works. XFCE fails with an error about being unable to connect to the settings server.
[11:24] <ogkloo> I can open a terminal emulator, but then there's a very long lag between when I type and then it actually comes up
[11:25] <diogenes_> ogkloo: try to remove .Xauthority and .ICEauthority
[11:26] <ogkloo> then restart lightdm or the entire machine?
[11:26] <diogenes_> the pc
[11:27] <ogkloo> got it
[11:31] <ogkloo> no luck
[11:31] <diogenes_> ogkloo: then try to boot the previous kernel
[11:33] <ogkloo> is there a convenient way to do that or is it involved? If it's involved I'll just put it off until tomorrow morning
[11:34] <diogenes_> ogkloo: when you boot the pc and reach grub, you choose advanced option and there should be several kernels to choose from
[11:36] <ogkloo> ah okay
[17:39] <ogkloo> I was here last night trying to resolve an update issue from 16.04 to 18.04. In attempting to do this, I rolled back to kernel 4.4.0 (from 4.15.0) as suggested. Unfortunately, this didn't work.
[17:41] <ogkloo> I'm getting strings of seemingly unrelated errors with window managers: herbstluftwm will load, but fails to render a terminal emulator, or allow typing in anything. Openbox can load its dropdown menu, but opening anything causes the screen to start flickering. i3 fails to do anything at all, and xfce dies immediately with "unable to connect to settings server".
[17:42] <ogkloo> Also, whenever I get into one, and then jump back to tty1, I have to move the mouse to update the screen, unless I'm at the lightdm lockscreen, in which case it works fine.
[17:47] <ogkloo> I looked into the problem with xfce, and that seems to be related to dbus, which was kinda my first guess anyways. Has anyone else had this when upgrading? Or something like this?
[18:01] <ogkloo> hm, interestingly mpd works fine. Actually better than pre-upgrade.
[18:01] <ogkloo> starts on startup, behaves well. Only WMs and the xfce settings server fail it seems like.
[18:06] <ogkloo> so does cmus. No idea what that means, but sound seems fine. Just graphics.
[18:50] <xubuntu27w> Hello all. i am a newb(ie) to linox. How can I play dvds? bionic
[18:51] <xubuntu27w> or please direct me to correct chat room
[18:52] <xubuntu27w> or continue what you were doing, BUT EITHER WAY, please enjoy your day
[18:54] <oerheks> see the dvd factoid https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
[18:55] <oerheks> sudo apt-get install libdvd-pkg && sudo dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg
[18:55] <oerheks> if it asks any question, hit 'yes'
[18:55] <oerheks> oh
[19:57] <ogkloo> So I can't type at any prompts, but I have full access to ttys- but terminal emulators, rofi, firefox address bar, etc, all do nothing when I select them and type in them
[19:58] <ogkloo> and some window managers cause the screen to blink
[19:59] <ogkloo> xfce (but not xubuntu session?) and openbox after I open urxvt
[20:00] <ogkloo> also the lightdm background wallpaper doesn't load
[20:00] <ogkloo> feels like there's something connecting those, but I'm not sure what it is and how to fix it
[20:11] <ogkloo> Oh! So now I kinda have something. I got into an x session
[20:12] <ogkloo> BUT when try to like, say, xgamma, nothing happens
[20:12] <ogkloo> xrdb also does nothing
[20:12] <ogkloo> it seems like I can't send things to X
[20:16] <ogkloo> compton freezes it
[20:28] <Spass> ogkloo, seems like your problem is something bigger than Xubuntu - compton, i3, openbox, herbstluftwm are far from a default Xubuntu install
[20:32] <Spass> maybe it's a good idea to post that on the Ubuntu forums and/or Ask Ubuntu? more people will probably be able to help
[20:32] <ogkloo> alright. Any other information you think it might be helpful to gather?
[20:34] <Spass> not sure, I'm not knowledgeable enough to help you with this issue unfortunately, did you try creating new user and see how it behaves?
[20:34] <ogkloo> oh, no I haven't done that. I'll try it
[20:34] <ogkloo> thank you
[20:35] <Spass> that could help you diagnose some things, maybe some user specific configs are messing things up
[23:00] <corzo> Hi
[23:01] <corzo> Hola
[23:01] <Javabean> !ask


[00:02] <psusi> I'm guessing it is because gnupg-agent depends on pinentry-curses | pinentry
[00:03] <psusi> and apt evaluated that first and so selected the curses version, which then satisfied gnome-keyring
[00:07] <cjwatson> in xenial it just outright Depends: pinentry-gnome3
[12:50] <Guest84389> Hi, is there a reason that starting from libpython3.4-dev (3.4.3) there is no libdir variable set in the pkg-config?
[14:10] <ari-tczew> cyphermox: I'm just looking on changes happened in network-manager. I noticed that in merge version 0.9.10-4 you got "Don't have network-manager Depend on adduser.", but in the next merge 1.0.4 such change doesn't exist anymore. Could you check that one?
[16:07] <__marco> Hi where should I ask for a package removal?
[16:09] <sladen> __marco: launchpad
[16:09] <sladen> __marco: but it's probably easier if you say what package it might be ;-)
[16:09] <__marco> virtualbricks
[16:09] <__marco> http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/virtualbricks
[16:10] <__marco> That version is so old that could be considerate obsolete
[16:11] <sladen> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/virtualbricks  seems to the same version as in Debian ?
[16:11] <sladen> (both 0.6.352-1)
[16:11] <sladen> __marco: what's the plan for Debian?
[16:11] <__marco> yes, but a new version should be uploaded soon
[16:12] <__marco> I contacted the Debian maintainer and he will upload the new version as soon as he has time
[16:12] <sladen> so to avoid breaking people's systems, and save work overall, would it make more sense to wait a couple of weeks and have it synced from Debian
[16:13] <__marco> will the versions in willy and xenial updated as well?
[16:14] <__marco> I mean, now that willy is releases, will a new version of a package accepted?
[16:16] <__marco> otherwise waiting few weeks is not a problem at all
[16:20] <sladen> __marco: it will get auto-synced to Xenial
[16:21] <sladen> __marco: if there is a significant-enough reason (major bugs/non-functionality) then one can apply for an SRU (Stable Release-Update) to get it into wily
[16:22] <sladen> __marco: there are occasional removals, but it's got to be a pretty strong reason.  For example bittorrent after the protocol changes and the other clients became /useless/
[16:22] <sladen> __marco: being old on its own it's really reason enough, if it still works
[16:23] <sladen> __marco: because users, by choosing a release, rather than the development pre-release are after stability
[16:26] <xnox> cjwatson: sigh =)
[16:26]  * xnox wishes that e.g. with dgit support these things can be auto-detected and auto-generated.....
[16:27] <__marco> sladen: that version is full of bugs :). It never worked really and only cause of trouble to our users.
[16:28] <infinity> So backport the bugfixes.
[16:29] <__marco> The new version is the bugfix. It is (mostly) compatible with the old one
[16:29] <infinity> Yeah.  That right there isn't suitable for an SRU.
[16:30] <infinity> We don't take new versions just to fix bugs in *stable* releases.  Stable means "stable interfaces and behaviour", not "free of bugs".
[16:30] <infinity> So, to fix bugs in a stable, you need to fix the bugs, not pull in a whole new version willy-nilly.
[16:31] <__marco> a version is just a number. Pull the changes and you get the same interface and the same behaviour without the bugs
[16:34] <infinity> You literally just used the evasive phase "(mostly) compatible".
[16:34] <infinity> So, it's not "just a number".
[16:34] <infinity> s/phase/phrase/
[16:38] <__marco> we had few compatibility issues that we fixed. The problem is that the users of the old version are so few that our tests weren't enough. But will continue to work to improve that aspect
[16:38] <__marco> a non-compatibility is a bug
[16:42] <__marco> The major problem with that version in ubuntu is that "irritate" our users. Most of them never seen linux and a terminal. They do not understand what a repository is and how to install a specific version of a package
[16:43] <__marco> when they do `apt-get install virtualbrick` and "it does not work, the program hangs", it is our fault for them
[16:43] <infinity> So submit patches to fix the hangs?
[16:43] <__marco> it does not matter if they just installed the wrong version
[16:44] <infinity> We do this sort of thing all the time, there's no reason you need hundreds of commits to fix a few bugs.
[16:45] <__marco> because the whole structure of the program was fragile and, if you will, I am such a good programmer to fix all of those problem in few commits
[16:47] <__marco> I am sorry but I will try to backport the new version to willy and, if it will not work, I will try to remove it
[17:05] <sladen> __marco: "whole structure of the program was fragile", this is why backport small eyeball-able fixes, instead of "just taking the new release"
[17:06] <sladen> __marco: patches to fix bugs fully greeted with enthusiasm (both here, and in Debian---file in Launchpad/debbugs with minimal diff and precisely attributable to the bug it fixes)
[17:07] <sladen> __marco: the crucial difference is bug fix vs. new features
[17:08] <sladen> __marco: yes, it's tempting to put new good stuff in, but that doesn't keep the bug fixes trackable, nor achieve interface/library stability---which is the reason people choose "a release" (even if they don't know it)
[17:15] <__marco> So looks really simple I will more than happy to do it if only I could. The cause of such hangs was a wrong use of threads. Many of commits are the attempt to fix it. I looks to work, until the program hanged one time more
[17:17] <__marco> And fix threads problems is not so easy. "That threads should do something and use a library which is not threadsafe but have to use it to achieve that"
[17:17] <__marco> so a new core was born which does not use threads.  Just we think that that version should be not used by anyone. And not just because we want so.
[17:22] <__marco> We never thought that it could be part of Ubuntu. That was our main mistake
[17:22] <__marco> Because, I could prove it, it will not work in Ubuntu
[17:25] <__marco> s/will/does/
[17:29] <__marco> but anyway, I want to thank you to bear with me and show me such a big problem
[17:29] <__marco> :)
[18:25] <cyphermox> ari-tczew: IIRC it's unimportant, it's just that adduser gets used in debian to add the user to netdev, which we don't use in ubuntu. so I suspect it was just forgotten
[20:46] <ari-tczew> morphis: are you going to merge network-manager? I've partially done