[00:19] <sladen> hope you all made it home okay
[05:52] <knightwise> morning
[05:52] <knightwise> anyone up ?
[05:54] <knightwise> help ?
[06:05] <Myrtti> sure
[06:14] <AlanBell> morning
[06:41] <harry_> Anyone with the knowledege of InstallJammer??
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> never heard of it
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> I'd just use Wx or Qt if I wanted a cross-platform GUI
[06:46] <harry_> Okay
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> harry_: according to their website, development was discontinued last month
[06:47] <harry_> ya i got a mail from damon(Admin)..
[06:49] <harry_> but as such i need certain anwsers as such i mail to damon about my qerry but as such i did not receive any reply yet..
[07:10] <DJones> Morning all
[07:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Represent - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/23/represent/
[07:25] <daubers> Morning
[07:27] <diplo> Morning
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:27]  * MartijnVdS discovers a new cool scp feature
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> scp host1:file host2:
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> and
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> scp -3 host1:file host2:
[07:28] <diplo> Wat does the -3 do then ?
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> (first one copies from host1 to host2, second one does the same, but uses the host you're running scp on as a "middle man")
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> (in case of firewalls between host1 and host2)
[07:40] <diplo> :)
[08:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - how do I remove an iptables rule? I can't see it when I do iptables -L but it is there...
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: iptables -D <number>
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> iptables -D chain_name number
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> I don't know the number
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> start counting from 1 in each chain (table)
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> iptables -L shows them in order
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> top one is 1
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> I was testing a redirect.
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -d <IP_ADDRESS> -i eth1 -j DNAT --to <IP_ADDRESS>
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth1 -j MASQUERADE
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Which works.
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: also, replaceing the -A with -D should work
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> This should be the only rules on that box
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> But why can't I list them?
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you can flush all rules using -F
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> ah
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> because they're in -t nat
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> "iptables -L -t nat" should show them
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks MartijnVdS
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> -F did what I wanted.
[08:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> And my redirect worked. Just fyi, what's the difference between -A and -D
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: -Add and -Delete
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - sorry I was being lazy ;-)
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am reading some stuff online.
[08:21] <popey> Morning
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[08:22] <bigcalm> Morning peoples
[08:31] <JamesTai1> Happy Friday, everyone!
[08:41] <popey> Yes!
[08:44]  * TheOpenSourcerer had rather a lot of chinese last night.
[08:45] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> All you can eat for £13.95
[08:45] <bigcalm> I wonder why emails from the Wolverhampton Civic are so full of broken images. All ways have been as well
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> We had ~6 starters each, crispy duck and pancakes, curry.
[08:46] <bigcalm> Right, it's about time you Ubuntu boffins help me fix my shutdown/reboot problem :)
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just press the button ;)
[08:47] <bigcalm> Issuing a shutdown, sleep or hibernate will reboot the system. It no longer powers off
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> cool :)
[08:48] <bigcalm> Annoying
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> did you update the BIOS recently?
[08:48] <bigcalm> I have to wait for POST and then hold down the power button
[08:48] <bigcalm> Nope
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> Maybe there's an update available?
[08:49] <bigcalm> No reason for it to change its behaviour
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no new kernel version? Ubuntu version?
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> We have an aberrant server running natty (not my choice). It appears to have gone "overloaded" again. But now I cannot get in via ssh anymore... I blame AlanBell personally. 10.04 is a good, solid server platform.
[08:50] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu version has stayed the same at 11.04, though the kernel has most probably been updated
[08:53] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:56] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: i have no idea, sorry
[08:56] <bigcalm> :'(
[08:56] <bigcalm> Right, must be time to ditch Ubuntu then!
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: because that's the ONLY solution if I don't know something
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[08:57] <bigcalm> Hehe
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey brobostigon How's it going?
[08:58] <bigcalm> Unicode win!
[08:58] <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: not bad, alittle tired, didnt sleep proerly, and my eczema is alittle dodgy. how about you?
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm good thanks. Still rather full up from last night's digital dogging session.
[08:59] <brobostigon> :)
[09:00] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: yes I did ask where the lord was only to be told you were dogging, I wasn't surprised really :p
[09:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[09:26] <popey> guy at work told me there's hp touchpads in carphone warehouse bracknell
[09:30] <bigcalm> Do people really want HP touchpads now that they are available? I thought it was all about getting one when nobody else could.
[09:35] <diplo> bigcalm: I'd say it was all about the price point more than anything else
[09:37] <bigcalm> diplo: you could be right
[09:40] <diplo> I'd really like one at that price
[09:49]  * popey tickles TheOpenSourcerer
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> tee hee
[09:50]  * TheOpenSourcerer is waiting for an email from his friend at HP
[10:01] <davmor2> morning all
[11:40] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I blame Daviey
[11:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fair enough
[11:41] <davmor2> AlanBell: You're wrong it's always czajkowski fault honest I went through this with TheOpenSourcerer before ;)
[11:45] <diplo> Is it still issues with cron TheOpenSourcerer / AlanBell ?
[11:45] <diplo> Remember from a week or so ago ?
[11:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Dunno this time. Can't get in :-(
[11:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Same server though yes.
[11:45] <diplo> No console access ?
[11:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ha
[11:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> I wish.
[11:45] <diplo> :p
[11:45] <diplo> I miss that so much from my new job
[11:46] <diplo> I bought a brilliant digital KVM from dell at last place
[11:51] <czajkowski> davmor2: oi
[11:52] <davmor2> czajkowski: but you break systems all the time so it must be your fault somewhere down the line Honest ;)
[11:52] <davmor2> czajkowski: morning by the way
[11:54] <czajkowski> I kiiiiillll you davmor2
[11:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: aaaaahhhhh thanks I didn't know you cared :P
[12:00] <Myrtti> weekly friendly reminder of "memento mori": get a life insurance, kids!
[12:01] <czajkowski> hmmm
[12:01] <czajkowski> really likeing how simple BAlsamiq is
[12:01] <czajkowski> but wondering is the pencil project better
[12:01] <AlanBell> so is the compaq integrated lights out thing a good way to get on to an unresponsive server and see what is happening?
[12:02] <czajkowski> Balsamiq has a nice video showing how easy it to use
[12:02] <AlanBell> pencil is easy too
[12:02] <czajkowski> yeah
[12:02] <czajkowski> then there is mocking bird
[12:02] <czajkowski> need to find one that's nice
[12:02] <czajkowski> the mac one we have here is very easy
[12:02] <czajkowski> but not on a mac
[12:04] <AlanBell> pencil is GPL which is more convenient if you want to share the design work with others
[12:06] <czajkowski> true
[12:14] <diplo> Guys back on my ssh setup i was talking about yesterday
[12:14] <diplo> I am creating a user to store a authorized_key file and a .ssh/config file
[12:15] <diplo> I want to use that one user to add peoples pub keys to that authorized keys file and config
[12:15] <diplo> And then be able to push that authorized key folder to 80+ machines
[12:15] <diplo> and the config to 20 ish users
[12:15] <diplo> Anyone know of a proper way, or am I going to have to do some scripting ?
[12:27] <sjk> Hm, why do you need that initial user?
[12:28] <diplo> I just want a centralised place to create the auth file and to have a script
[12:31] <sjk> diplo, will you just need to push them all once?
[12:37] <diplo> That was what i was thinking yeah
[12:37] <diplo> Adding new customers/ removing users who have left company etc
[13:04] <czajkowski> AlanBell: installed pencil shall play with it and see
[14:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] UEFI secure booting (part 2) - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/139232.html
[14:44] <shauno> hm.  my box of tricks seems to be woefully underequipped to reshape 3mill steel plate :(  I need new toys
[15:08] <DJones> Sheesh, damm good job all our calls are recorded, after signing up for a £100K system, they've come back & said that the part that links in with our accounts system isn't included
[15:09] <DJones> Thats despite me talking to them and telling them how the old system worked & how it was automatically linked in to the accounts system
[15:20] <diplo> DJones: We had lods of that at our last place, I reckon part my manager part sales man
[15:22] <DJones> Just listening to the conversation with their demo people "most of our clients use the same systems as you, we already do that for them", director has just told them that if the system isn't capeable of doing it, we're cancelling & going with their competitor which was a very similar system
[15:28] <diplo> :D
[15:29] <diplo> what are you integrating ?
[15:53] <DJones> diplo: Sorry, was just on the phone with them, the new system is a travel industry system, details of clients, booking, payments etc, it has to link with sage accounts
[15:54] <diplo> Oooh fun
[15:54] <diplo> We are just about to integrate Sage into our system, new and old
[15:55] <diplo> No one is really looking forward to it
[15:55] <DJones> Its shouldn't be that hard, sage is actually quite easy to import into if you've got the add on module for 3rd party integration
[15:57] <diplo> yeah I think we just applied for the developer pack
[15:59] <shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaunoneil/6175563198   a very productive day off :D
[15:59] <diplo> oh dear shauno :)
[16:00] <Monotoko> hey guys...I'm trying to create a global LAN...in that I want people to be able to connect to my server (authenticated, there will be about 100 users) and then go where they need to. I want to add another TLD inside the network, for example www.main.dev takes a user to the main page...could OpenVPN do this?
[16:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Supporting UEFI secure boot on Linux: the details - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/139356.html
[16:13] <shauno> Monotoko: I want to say yes, but that's not going to be all openvpn, but a combination of tricks
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> Hm
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> I think this bug needs some more attention
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/840826
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> or we'll get LOADS of "flash sound is broken" bugs/complaints after release
[16:21] <ks07> Hey guys, I'm trying to mount a filesystem with sshfs, but I'm getting permission denied on /dev/fuse - The permissions are fine, and my user is part of the fuse group. Any suggestions?
[16:21] <ks07> (This is in an OpenVZ container)
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> ks07: did log out + back in after adding the user to the fuse group?
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> also.. ewww openvz :) that messes with lots of things, probably mounting as well
[16:23] <ks07> MartijnVdS, yes, I'm definitely in the groups
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> ks07: then fuse and openvz aren't compatible
[16:24] <ks07> They are, but I'm beginning to suspect the host has disabled such feature
[16:25] <ks07> Guess I'm waiting for support response (out of office hours, fun!)
[16:31] <Monotoko> shauno, would you mind pointing me to some tricks? :)
[16:44] <shauno> Monotoko: hosting .dev is going to mean running a nameserver inside the vpn that thinks it's authorative for that root.  then when openvpn pushes nameservers to the clients, they want to point to that
[17:16] <esteeven>  Hello. I am trying to boot 11.04 from CD but my video is "garbled" - lots of multi-coloured lines. The card is a ATI Technologies Inc RV710 [Radeon HD 4350]. I hear the "desktop ready" sound but there's nothing I can do. I can't even open another VT
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Laney: I get similar DBus errors on my unity STDERR
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Laney: WARN  2011-09-23 19:43:33 glib <unknown>:0 Failed to fetch view type at /org/ayatana/bamf/application0x7f41c400f400: Method "ViewType" with signature "" on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist
[18:18] <diplo> evening all
[18:19] <diplo> How well does natty/Oneric play with intel chipsets ?
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> works fine here
[18:20] <diplo> Thinking about upgrading this lappy
[18:20] <bigcalm> Natty works well on my dell
[18:20] <diplo> May just go straight to Oneric
[18:20] <bigcalm> Check the supported hardware list
[18:21] <diplo> Trying to find chipset now
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> if it works now, it'll work in Oneiric
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> unless it's REALLY old hardware
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> as in "from the server rack on Noah's ark"
[18:50] <zleap> hello
[19:09] <jacobw> hey zleap
[19:09] <zleap> hi
[19:09] <diplo> Sorry MartijnVdS, its a Dell D820, so old but not ark
[19:09] <diplo> i965 i think
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> should be fine then
[19:15] <diplo> http://releases.ubuntu.com//oneiric/ - URL for 64bit not working, where do we report broken links
[19:16] <shauno> seems to work here?
[19:17] <diplo> lol does for me now as well
[19:17] <zleap> when is 11.10 released ?
[19:17] <diplo> Tried it in two browsers, now works :/
[19:18] <shauno> it's down for oct 13th, but it's never set in stone until it happens (they've had to delay it a couple of times)
[19:18] <shauno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[19:18] <zleap> ok
[19:30] <AlanBell> shauno: the party is on the 13th no matter what happens!
[19:31] <shauno> if it comes to the worst, you can cry into your beer together :)
[19:31] <zleap> thanks alan
[19:31] <zleap> hi kellyh
[19:32]  * AlanBell fails to install Beta 2 in virtualbox :(
[19:48] <zleap> is synaptic being removed from11.10
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> only from the default install, I think
[19:50] <zleap> ok thanks
[20:51] <Myrtti> oooo errrr
[20:51] <Myrtti> cheap entertainment, just ate and now the room spins around me
[21:12] <sammmm> HazRPG: I have no internet 'til the 10th :'(
[21:12] <sammmm> No Battlefield 3 beta for me :'(
[21:15] <HazRPG> sammmm: gutted
[21:15] <sammmm> HazRPG: What I have feels worse than dial up :(
[21:16] <HazRPG> heh
[21:16] <HazRPG> unlucky
[21:17] <sammmm> OMG I managed to gather enough bandwidths to connect to Steam
[21:17] <HazRPG> esp since the internet today, uses more bandwidth for most sites...
[21:17] <sammmm> But I'll probably just go into offline mode
[21:17] <sammmm> HazRPG: Yeah, stupid backwards web development ><
[21:23] <sammmm> Facebook is too bandwidth heavy for me to use :(
[21:24] <sammmm> HazRPG: Oh yay I'm getting internet on the 6th. I only have to wait 2 horrible weeks
[21:28] <HazRPG> sammmm: btw, servers/games/etc don't use as much bandwidth as you may think... remember it just strings of text that get passed back n forth... it's the updates and patches that you need to worry about
[21:29] <sammmm> HazRPG: Hmmm I might try some CoD4 then
[21:29] <sammmm> HazRPG: The Wi-Fi is so flaky because it's about a mile away too :(
[21:30] <sammmm> HazRPG: Does IRC use much bandwidths?
[21:30] <HazRPG> sammmm: almost non really
[21:31] <HazRPG> sammmm: again, just text
[21:31] <sammmm> HazRPG: What about Steam?
[21:31] <HazRPG> most stuff will just be text being passed back n forth
[21:31] <HazRPG> unless its sending images and what not, it won't take up much
[21:32] <HazRPG> however encryption can sometimes take up more... but gotta remember, most games worked perfectly fine back in dialup days
[21:32] <HazRPG> I've played WoW fine on dialup before too
[21:32] <sammmm> HazRPG: This is worse than dialup
[21:32] <HazRPG> however patching WoW on dialup is not fun
[21:32] <sammmm> HazRPG: Games just won't load up on Steam :(
[21:32] <HazRPG> sammmm: dialup is anything that's less then 56k dude
[21:32] <HazRPG> I remember being on dialup and getting only 14.6k
[21:33] <HazRPG> (if I was lucky!)
[21:33] <sammmm> HazRPG: Steam won't launch my games because I don't have enough internet :(
[22:09] <sammmm> HazRPG: I think I'm on 14.6k :(
[22:13] <KrimZon> it should work without any internet
[22:16] <gord> heh no, steam doesn't really work without internet very well, even in "offline" mode
[22:16] <gord> but hey, its a drm platform, its what we all bought in to, trying not to get anymore steam games now because of annoyances like that
[22:28] <KrimZon> Ahh... I remember assurances years ago that it would still work offline. But if it doesn't I should start avoiding steam too.
[22:29] <KrimZon> sleepy time
[22:31] <sammm> Not having any internet is so shit
[22:31] <AlanBell> interesting twist to the thread on the mailing list
[22:34] <hamitron> sammm, indeed, you wouldn't get to talk to us.... ;)
[22:42] <sammm> hamitron: I have enough internet to talk to you, but not do anything else
[22:42] <hamitron> oh? :/
[22:42] <hamitron> I sort of feel your pain
[22:43] <hamitron> :)
[22:43] <hamitron> but I've started to just not care. and enjoy what is available
[22:43] <sammm> hamitron: I'm on dial up 14.2k
[22:43] <sammm> hamitron: But I can't get the battlefield 3 beta or play any online games :(
[22:43] <hamitron> yeh :/
[22:43] <sammm> Or watch porn
[22:44] <hamitron> need 56k to game properly on most half recent games
[22:44] <hamitron> well, games from 10 years ago
[22:44] <hamitron> :/
[22:46] <sammm> hamitron: The Battlefield 3 beta begins on the 29th but I won't get internet 'til the 6th :(
[22:46] <sammm> Sooooooooooo gay
[22:47] <hamitron> I don't download any games, takes too long
[22:47] <sammm> I might phone them up and tell them that I need it sooner so I can play Battlefield 3
[22:47] <sammm> hamitron: But it's not just any old game
[22:47] <sammm> It's Battlefield fucking three!!!!!!
[22:47] <sammm> Biggest game in the last 6 years or so
[22:47] <hamitron> yeh, but it will be huge
[22:47] <hamitron> ;/
[22:48] <hamitron> I just got F1 2011 on DVD off ebay
[22:48] <sammm> Biggest game since UT2004, CS:S and BF2
[22:48] <hamitron> as it was download only in the UK
[22:48] <hamitron> :/
[22:48] <sammm> hamitron: Why don't you download games?
[22:49] <sammm> Steam is great for that
[22:49]  * hamitron checks connection
[22:49] <hamitron> 0.4mbit
[22:49] <hamitron> ;/
[22:49] <hamitron> so it would take ages, slow down my internet....
[22:49] <hamitron> plus I like a physical game copy
[22:50] <hamitron> plus steam have bullied me once before
[22:52] <shauno> hamitron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaunoneil/6175563198   how's that for physical copies :)
[22:52] <hamitron> omg man
[22:52] <hamitron> respect
[22:52] <hamitron> ;D
[22:53] <hamitron> my first PC did have a 4 speed cdrom and sound card though
[22:53] <hamitron> ;/
[22:53] <hamitron> got over 300 pc games on optical media
[22:53] <shauno> most things I have from the last decade or so all live piled on one harddrive :/  but my amiga .. just piles of junk
[22:55] <shauno> it's been in bits for about a year tho.  took today to sit down 'n put it all back together.  and ended up sat on ebay buying more junk for it
[22:55] <hamitron> shauno, I know I am a little stuck in the past, but I like to think I've moved onto things that are nearly as functional as modern stuff
[22:55] <hamitron> :)
[22:55] <hamitron> most are win95 onwards
[22:56] <shauno> I don't have much from that era
[22:56] <hamitron> before then I was all NES and SNES
[22:56] <hamitron> :/
[22:56] <shauno> I pretty much skipped win32 completely.  moved to linux on my dekstop in 96, and have a good 10 year gap in my gaming starting right there
[22:57] <hamitron> yeh, I bet
[22:57] <hamitron> :)
[22:57] <hamitron> any game pre-win95 I have got since win98
[22:57] <hamitron> most are 2nd hand
[22:58] <hamitron> not even played most of them tbh, just wanted some of the classics
[22:58] <hamitron> :)
[22:58] <shauno> do they stil have 'sold out' there?
[22:58] <hamitron> I like cerial boxes, for the old games
[22:58] <hamitron> ;)
[22:59] <hamitron> in very nice condition, with full instructions
[22:59] <hamitron> :/
[22:59] <gord> big boxes gave them a reason to fill them with stuff
[22:59] <hamitron> yeh
[22:59] <hamitron> and bigger is better
[22:59] <hamitron> ;/
[23:00] <gord> well not really, i mean i got rid of my boxes years ago because geez they take up too much space
[23:00] <hamitron> it also gives me a reason for hoarding, when collecting such things
[23:00] <gord> for what is essentially just cardboard and empty space
[23:00] <hamitron> :)
[23:00] <hamitron> true
[23:00] <hamitron> but I like to see them
[23:00] <hamitron> :/
[23:00] <shauno> all my big boxes got left behind when I left the UK
[23:01] <hamitron> just so nice to stack a load of originals on a desk, and look at them
[23:01] <shauno> they look great on a shelf, but become worse than useless when you have restless feet
[23:01] <hamitron> I sadly don't have enough wall space for that many shelves
[23:01] <hamitron> :/
[23:01] <gord> my little megadrive collection is bad enough, thinking about getting rid of the boxes for those and just having carts. but they are so pretty...
[23:02]  * hamitron votes "yes" to the question "should gord keep his boxes"
[23:02] <hamitron> since I started with my NES, I just kept everything as a kid
[23:02] <hamitron> :/
[23:03] <hamitron> never buy anything on a new release, to save myself money to spend on more stuff
[23:03] <hamitron> (and yes I have a mess here)
[23:03] <shauno> megadrive boxes aren't so bad; they're just like fat dvd cases
[23:03] <hamitron> megadrive and megacd are things I am playing with the idea of getting
[23:03] <hamitron> :)
[23:04] <shauno> never had a megacd
[23:05] <gord> well they are the same size vertically as a dvd case, but 2/3 times as wide, which just eats up space on shelves
[23:05] <shauno> wanted a cd32, but by time saving that much money became realistic, chicks & beer showed up
[23:05] <gord> you don't need to get a megacd, there is only one game worth playing on it anyway
[23:05] <gord> well no a few japanese imports
[23:05] <hamitron> shauno, no dedication to geekism ;)
[23:06] <gord> but you won't find those for cheep
[23:06] <hamitron> gord, it just looks cool
[23:06] <hamitron> the one that mounts underneath
[23:06] <hamitron> I am also a fan of optical media
[23:07] <shauno> megadrive was pretty decent tho.  that's still one of my favourite controllers
[23:07] <gord> no, what looks cool is a sonic the hedgehog 3 cart, plugged in to a sonic and knuckles cart, plugged in to a game genie cart, plugged in to a 32x, plugged in to a mega drive
[23:09] <hamitron> haha
[23:09] <hamitron> brb, gotta go put bike away
[23:09]  * hamitron not been home long
[23:09]  * hamitron gone
[23:16] <sammm> I have over 100 PC games on digital
[23:17]  * AlanBell prefers analog PC games
[23:18] <sammm> Now that I don't have an internet connection, I can get round to playing a couple of these SP games that I bought on Steam but never played lol
[23:21] <shauno> it boggles my mind that people do that.  I know a load of people that haven't played half of what they bought on steam
[23:22] <sammm> shauno: I'm one of those people :(
[23:22] <sammm> shauno: I've stopped doing it now
[23:22] <sammm> shauno: Stupid Steam sales made me think I was getting a bargain when I couldn't play them all
[23:22] <sammm> shauno: I once had a friend with 700 games on Steam but he played like 5 hours a week LOL
[23:26] <gord> i'v got like 120 something, some of them i have barely played on steam, but they are mostly games i have played years ago and wanted to rekindle the magic a bit
[23:27]  * sammm is watching Lara Croft in a diving suit
[23:35] <sammm> FFS why do Tomb Raider puzzles have to be so difficutl?


[00:05] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (151): STILL FAILING in 3 hr 37 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/151/
[00:05] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=abentley][ui=none][bug=620615,
[00:05] <LPCIBot> 659078] change Launchpad to use Storm 0.18
[00:25] <wallyworld> thumper: they can suck, you just have to know how to tune them :-) i think storm may not be as advanced as say hibernate in this area
[00:25] <thumper> wallyworld: I'm attacking a place in the code where there is simplistic thinking
[00:25] <wallyworld> hibernate has all sorts of goodies, including support for batch updates and mixing native sql with it's object query language (HQL)
[00:25] <thumper> wallyworld: so does storm
[00:26]  * wallyworld needs to learn more storm
[00:28]  * wallyworld wonders, does storm support per query fetching strategies and pre-fetch sizes, or lazy instantiation of collections?
[00:37] <thumper> wallyworld: kinda
[00:38] <wallyworld> it's stuff like all that which is needed to properly tune one's app of course
[00:39] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (98): SUCCESS in 3 hr 37 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/98/
[00:39] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=thumper][ui=none][no-qa] Manual merge of stable into db-devel.
[00:40] <wallyworld> hey thumper, i'm likely the last to realise - i suppose you know about http://blogs.computerworld.com/17224/ubuntu_changes_its_desktop_from_gnome_to_unity
[00:40] <thumper> no
[00:40] <wallyworld> someone emailed it to me
[00:43]  * wallyworld gets out the tissues and blubbers over how unloved KDE is :-(
[00:43] <jcsackett> wallyworld: if it helps, i know in OS X circled KDE 4 got serious circulation. :-P
[00:44] <jcsackett> s/circled/circles/
[00:44] <wallyworld> it would help more if KDE had more support on Ubuntu :-)
[00:46] <wallyworld> at least maybe there's a growing realisation that Qt is good. one step forward...
[00:47] <jcsackett> it helps that Qts license situation got cleaned up.
[00:47] <jcsackett> (or the FUD around it got cleaned up; whatever your preference might be)
[00:49] <wallyworld> jcsackett: same thing really, given the impact it had...
[00:49] <jcsackett> wallyworld: fair point.
[00:51] <jcsackett> wallyworld: these days i'm a wmii man, if you want to talk no love. :-D
[00:51] <wallyworld> :-)
[00:53]  * thumper afk for walk to shops and lunch
[01:19] <maxb> Does anyone have any idea why ~vcs-imports is associated with https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~brian-rogers/gnome-power/report-percentage/+merge/39329 ?
[01:19] <jelmer> maxb, it's probably the default reviewer for some reason
[02:08]  * thumper needs coffee badly
[02:25]  * thumper has coffee and is screaming at his screen
[02:25]  * thumper dodges a tumbleweed
[02:26] <thumper> why is that damn test being run twice?
[02:26] <thumper> lifeless: ping
[02:26]  * wgrant rolls some more tumbleweed in.
[02:26] <lifeless> hi
[02:26] <wgrant> It's not one of those tests which is confusingly run with the same name for several object types?
[02:27] <thumper> lifeless: when running a doc test with "bin/test -vvt message-holds-xmlrpc.txt" it runs twice
[02:27] <thumper> lifeless: any idea?
[02:27] <thumper> lifeless: btw, this will fix the mailman xmlrpc call when it makes 5000 database calls
[02:28] <lifeless> nice
[02:28] <lifeless> what causes that ?
[02:28] <thumper> simplistic iteration over a large result set
[02:28] <lifeless> lack of eager loading ?
[02:29] <thumper> and silly logic
[02:29]  * thumper is enfixorating
[02:29] <thumper> I'm changing it slightly
[02:29] <thumper> so will just do 6
[02:29] <thumper> I could attempt to make it 2, but I don't see the benefit for that
[02:29] <thumper> the logic would be harder to follow if I did
[02:30] <thumper> 5000 -> 6 is much better
[02:30] <lifeless> I think 6 queries is fine ;)
[02:30] <lifeless> sometimes less is worse too
[02:30] <lifeless> depending on the related data density
[02:30] <rockstar> deryck, lp:~rockstar/launchpad/javascript-refresh
[02:31] <thumper> lifeless: this one: OOPS 1758XMLP341
[02:32] <lifeless> nice
[02:34] <lifeless> thumper: I see the double run in trunk
[02:34] <lifeless> thumper: its being loaded twice by whatever module constructs it
[02:34] <thumper> lifeless: is it all doc tests or just some?
[02:34] <lifeless> lp/registry/tests/test_doc.py
[02:35] <lifeless> will be a buglet in there
[02:35] <lifeless> ignore for this branch IMO
[02:36] <thumper> ok
[02:36] <thumper> lifeless: are you going to file a bug for it?
[02:36] <thumper> lifeless: if it is simple, I could fix in this branch
[02:36] <lifeless> its late + jetlag
[02:37] <lifeless> I haven't looked
[02:38] <thumper> lifeless: ah, it seems to have two different setup methods
[02:38] <thumper> lifeless: so it is testing things twice
[02:39] <thumper> one with the real mailinglist api and another with a fake
[02:51] <jcsackett> thumper: you mean it's doing two tests in one via diff setUps?
[02:51] <thumper> kinda
[02:52]  * jcsackett pulls up code.
[02:53] <jcsackett> or not; i forgot my dev machine doesn't multitask well when updating.
[02:53] <jcsackett> and here i thought i might be helpful. this is a test in registry?
[02:54] <thumper> it is, and there isn't a problem
[02:54] <thumper> just my misunderstanding
[02:55] <jcsackett> thumper: ah, dig.
[03:03]  * wgrant WTFs at launchpad-users.
[03:04] <lifeless> oh?
[03:04] <wgrant> The last email to it.
[03:05] <lifeless> on oct 15th?
[03:05] <wgrant> About 47 minutes ago.
[03:06] <lifeless> swiss branded watches?
[03:06] <jcsackett> chain letter about returning vets, looks like.
[03:07] <wgrant> It looks like it.
[03:07] <jcsackett> that does seem about as Off-topic as you're going to get...
[03:07] <lifeless> \o/ edge bye bye
[03:07] <wgrant> :( poor edge
[03:09] <lifeless> hah
[03:10] <jcsackett> i had only just met poor edge.
[03:10] <bac> wgrant: the previous one about getting mugged in KL was mighty off topic too
[03:10]  * wgrant remembers back when it was 'beta', restricted access, and had the shiny new UI.
[03:10] <wgrant> bac: Ah yeah, I forgot about that one.
[03:14] <jcsackett> bac: that one is however the result of a compromised account.
[03:14] <jcsackett> my sister had some people get into her yahoo account a few months back and received (nearly) word for word that email. it's apparently a pretty popular scam.
[03:23] <thumper> lifeless: has edge gone?
[03:23] <wgrant> Heh. I was about to ask if someone had turned off the redirect.
[03:23]  * thumper imagines some people getting a little miffed at no recipes ...
[03:23] <wgrant> Then I noticed the last rev.
[03:41] <EdwinGrubbs> thumper: ping
[03:41] <thumper> EdwinGrubbs: hi
[03:42] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[03:42] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (152): FIXED in 3 hr 37 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/152/
[03:42] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=lifeless][ui=none][no-qa] Refactor page-performance-report to use
[03:42] <LPCIBot> less memory by using a SQLite3 db to hold the requests and
[03:42] <LPCIBot> generating statistics for only one key at a time.
[03:42] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=henninge][ui=none][bug=659085] Remove
[03:42] <LPCIBot> getBugNotificationRecipients()
[03:42] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=henninge][ui=none][bug=628762] Ditch property cache adapters in
[03:42] <LPCIBot> favour of plain old Python. The IPropertyCache adapter is
[03:42] <LPCIBot> replaced by get_property_cache() and the IPropertyCacheManager
[03:42] <LPCIBot> adapter is replaced by clear_property_cache().
[03:42] <wgrant> !
[03:43] <thumper> now that is a bit of IRC spam
[03:43] <wgrant> Does this mean we are green?
[03:43] <wgrant> Yes!
[03:43] <wgrant> Both are green!
[03:43] <wgrant> For the first time!
[03:43] <EdwinGrubbs> thumper: according to bzr annotate, you worked on canonical.launchpad.webapp.sorting.sorted_version_numbers. I'm wondering why you the numbers are sorted in the reverse order as the letters. For example, [3, 2, 1, A, B, C], which looks wrong if a version combines letters and numbers like [5a, 4a, 3a, 3b, 3c].
[03:44] <thumper> holy crap that is quite a while ago...
[03:44] <EdwinGrubbs> thumper: I'm in the process of moving the sorting into the db so that the results can be batched. It looks like this is just used for the productseries.
[03:44] <thumper> EdwinGrubbs: I think the reasoning was we wanted newer version numbers first
[03:45] <EdwinGrubbs> thumper: ok, so there shouldn't be a problem in making the letters sort descending like the numbers?
[03:45] <thumper> ahh...
[03:45] <thumper> find out where it's used forst
[03:45] <thumper> first
[03:45] <thumper> I really don't remember
[03:46] <EdwinGrubbs> thumper: so far, it looks like it is just used for https://qastaging.launchpad.net/launchpad/+series
[03:46] <EdwinGrubbs> but I'll double check with sinzui
[03:46] <thumper> EdwinGrubbs: in which case it is all yours :)
[03:46] <thumper> who whatever you like
[03:46] <thumper> s/who/do/
[03:46] <EdwinGrubbs> thanks
[04:18] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (99): FAILURE in 3 hr 39 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/99/
[04:18] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=buildbot-poller] automatic merge from stable. Revisions: 11791
[04:18] <LPCIBot> included.
[04:18] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=henninge][ui=none][no-qa] Fix the models and accompanying tests
[04:18] <LPCIBot> for Branch Merge Queues to use the secured utilities, etc.
[04:27] <rockstar> How does launchpad not depend on beautiful soup anymore?
[04:53] <thumper> rockstar: eh?
[04:54] <rockstar> thumper, launchpad used to use beautiful soup a lot, but apparently it doesn't anymore.
[04:54] <thumper> ah ...
[04:54] <thumper> really?
[04:54] <rockstar> Also, I SHOULD go to bed, but deryck and I is watching teh football.
[04:54] <rockstar> thumper, yeah, I just added soupmatchers to Launchpad and it needed BeautifulSoup.
[04:55] <thumper> rockstar: still used by canonical.launchpad.testing.pages
[04:55] <thumper> rockstar: it may be an egg
[04:55] <rockstar> thumper, no, it wasn't in versions.cfg or setup.py
[04:55] <rockstar> Weird.
[04:56] <rockstar> At least, buildout couldn't find it, even when I just installed the package.
[04:57] <thumper> rockstar: it is LP telling you to sleep
[04:57] <thumper> :)
[04:57] <rockstar> thumper, probably.
[05:49] <bac> matsubara-afk: ping me when you arrive
[05:49] <bac> rockstar: who is playing?
[07:21] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (153): FAILURE in 3 hr 38 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/153/
[07:21] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=julian-edwards][ui=none][bug=662912][incr] Add diagnostics for bug
[07:21] <LPCIBot> 662912
[07:21] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=henninge][ui=none][no-qa] Remove the beta redirect and is_edge facilities.
[07:53] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[07:53] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (100): FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/100/
[07:53] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=buildbot-poller] automatic merge from stable. Revisions: 11792
[07:53] <LPCIBot> included.
[08:12] <al-maisan> Hello! I cannot push branches to launchpad. Can somebody please look into this?
[08:13] <al-maisan> Here's the error I get: $ bzr push
[08:13] <al-maisan> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~al-maisan/landscape/edit-computer
[08:13] <al-maisan> Traceback (most recent call last):
[08:13] <al-maisan>   File "/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/production/launchpad-rev-9885/eggs/bzr-2.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/EGG-INFO/scripts/bzr", line 140, in <module>
[08:13] <al-maisan>     exit_val = bzrlib.commands.main()
[08:13] <al-maisan>   File "/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/production/launchpad-rev-9885/eggs/bzr-2.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/bzrlib/commands.py", line 1191, in main
[08:13] <al-maisan>     _register_builtin_commands()
[08:13] <al-maisan>   File "/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/production/launchpad-rev-9885/eggs/bzr-2.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/bzrlib/commands.py", line 182, in _register_builtin_commands
[08:13] <al-maisan>     import bzrlib.builtins
[08:13] <al-maisan> ValueError: bad marshal data
[08:13] <al-maisan> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[08:13] <al-maisan> sorry
[08:13] <al-maisan> meant to paste pastebin url
[08:34] <adeuring> good  morning
[09:07] <wgrant> rockstar: BeautifulSoup is included via the Java Mentality.
[09:18] <mrevell> Hi
[10:57] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[10:57] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (154): FIXED in 3 hr 35 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/154/
[10:57] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=lifeless,thumper][ui=none][no-qa] Slightly fix the IDSJob tests.
[10:57] <LPCIBot> * Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=lifeless][ui=none][bug=664012] Fix the oopses raided by +branch
[10:57] <LPCIBot> navigation when there is no referrer to be 404s.
[13:21] <bigjools> good morning
[13:22] <wgrant> Morning.
[14:23] <mwhudson> jam: staging codehosting seems to be working
[14:23] <mwhudson> this surprises me :-)
[14:23] <jam> mwhudson: well, we haven't updated the config for the new code yet
[14:23] <mwhudson> oh of course
[15:17] <lifeless> poolie: bug 666765 is also on my nice-to-have for scopes
[15:29] <StevenK> lifeless: Didn't you mention a fix for the "No module named mailman.monkeypatches.defaults" ? I seem to recall it involved wielding rm over a directory
[15:31] <lifeless> rm -rf lib/mailman; make
[15:31] <jml> why is stdout a text stream rather than a bytes stream in Python 3?
[15:31] <lifeless> because python three
[15:31] <lifeless> jml: hows your session
[15:32] <jml> lifeless: not exactly riveting
[15:35] <bigjools> lifeless: so, running tests locally I get a lot of errors about librarians either running when they should not be or vice versa
[15:36] <bigjools> this Is Bad.
[15:36] <rockstar> james_w, can we chat at some point about soupmatchers?
[15:36] <bigjools> lifeless: looks like some layer issues
[15:37] <rockstar> bigjools, yeah, I've had those problems for about three weeks.
[15:37] <rockstar> bigjools, did you bin/kill-test-services ?
[15:38] <bigjools> yes
[15:38] <rockstar> bigjools, where is you?
[15:38] <bigjools> rockstar: boner 6
[15:38] <rockstar> bigjools, is there a session in there, or are you loitering?
[15:38] <bigjools> rockstar: linaro session
[15:38] <rockstar> bigjools, ah.
[15:38] <bigjools> rockstar: but I may duck out RSN
[15:39] <rockstar> bigjools, okay.  I'm at the end of the arterial hallway.
[15:39] <lifeless> bigjools: last time I saw that I had a prod librarian running
[15:40] <bigjools> I am getting motivated to fix test_on_merge
[15:45] <bigjools> rockstar: wtf is the arterial hallway? :)
[15:45] <lifeless> antigua
[15:45] <rockstar> bigjools, the hallway that acts as artery to all the dead end hallways.
[15:46] <bigjools> rockstar: which end?
[15:48] <poolie> lifeless, replied
[15:49] <poolie> lifeless, please tag them so i can find them later
[15:50] <bigjools> lifeless: it was a stale pidfile
[16:05] <lifeless> jml: :(
[16:06] <james_w> rockstar, sure thing
[16:06] <rockstar> james_w, are you going to be in a session after the one that just started?
[16:07] <james_w> rockstar, yes. I think my afternoon is quieter though
[16:07] <james_w> rockstar, or lunch?
[16:08] <rockstar> james_w, lunch will work.
[16:17] <StevenK> Is it just me or is codehosting down?
[16:40] <fjlacoste> lifeless: around?
[16:41] <lifeless> ys
[16:44] <lifeless> fjlacoste: yes
[16:44] <fjlacoste> lifeless: i need your advice, i'm working on a version of the ppr report that computes everything using SQL, that will operate in constant memory
[16:44] <fjlacoste> lifeless: i have all the stats covered except the median
[16:44] <fjlacoste> i know how to compute it, but it is very expensive
[16:44] <lifeless> fjlacoste: btw, disk space on sodium - we had to kill your thing
[16:45] <fjlacoste> i know
[16:45] <fjlacoste> that's fine
[16:45] <fjlacoste> we can sort that out later
[16:45] <lifeless> it was using 5% of the disk :)
[16:45] <fjlacoste> 2.9G
[16:45] <lifeless> yeah
[16:45] <lifeless> thats ~ 5%
[16:45] <fjlacoste> it needs a bigger disk :-)
[16:45] <fjlacoste> anyway
[16:45] <fjlacoste> so the way i can compute the median is by sorting on the column and using LIMIT 1 OFFSET n/2 to get the value
[16:46] <fjlacoste> but this seems like very expensive to do given that we are taking about millions of records
[16:46] <fjlacoste> and we are computing 3 medians
[16:46] <fjlacoste> and we can only do that by key
[16:46] <lifeless> WHERE Rank = (SELECT (COUNT(*)+1) DIV 2 FROM
[16:46] <fjlacoste> ah
[16:47] <lifeless> also
[16:47] <lifeless> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Aggregate_Median
[16:47] <lifeless> though I haven't looked into that implementation
[16:47] <fjlacoste> lifeless: i'm using sqlite
[16:47] <lifeless> oh
[16:47] <lifeless> :P
[16:47] <fjlacoste> i was asking if you mind dropping it :-)
[16:48] <fjlacoste> but your rank thing gave me an idea
[16:48] <lifeless> fjlacoste: hmm, so if the column is indexed grabbing the median should be darn cheap
[16:49] <fjlacoste> the question is how do I index the column relatively cheaply
[16:49] <lifeless> insert the data
[16:49] <lifeless> index the column
[16:49] <lifeless> then start querying
[16:50] <lifeless> oh
[16:50] <lifeless> you'll want to increase the sqlite cache size too
[16:50] <lifeless> because its like 2MB or something insane by default
[16:50] <lifeless> give it 200MB or so
[16:50] <flacoste> create an index on category, time for example?
[16:50] <flacoste> ok
[16:50] <lifeless> yeah
[16:50] <lifeless> remember that the query prefix has to match the index
[16:51] <flacoste> right
[16:51] <lifeless> category,time won't help time only sorts
[16:51] <lifeless> IIRC
[16:51] <flacoste> well i need the rank of time within each category
[16:51] <flacoste> (or url, or pageid)
[16:51] <lifeless> yack
[16:52] <jcsackett> lifeless: any chance you could help me think through bac's notes on bug 652156 and bug 652149?
[16:52] <jcsackett> basically, it looks to me like the timeouts there aren't related to either bug/branch.
[16:52] <lifeless> qastaging has a 10second timeout
[16:52] <abentley> lifeless: do you mean yak (-shaving), yuck, or some combination?
[16:53] <lifeless> I meant 'acl'
[16:53] <lifeless> bah
[16:53] <lifeless> 'ack'
[16:53] <lifeless> jcsackett: so any page that has a timeout bug open (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=timeout) is almost certain to timeout on [qa]staging too
[16:54] <lifeless> jcsackett: I would not stress about incidental timeouts there (but I *would* fix the page to not timeout at all :P separately :) )
[16:54] <mwhudson> mtaylor, jam: launchpad/bzr planning over lunch?
[16:54] <jcsackett> lifeless: that makes sense. so bac and i can mark ours qa-ok if the functionality is working (aside from the branchbug timeout)?
[16:55] <lifeless> jcsackett: as long as the page is already timing out with bug, production oops)
[16:56] <flacoste> lifeless: actually, there is no Rank expression in sqlite
[16:56] <flacoste> and generating the rank seems as costly as getting the median using iterative limit/Offset
[16:58] <lifeless> flacoste: how slow is slow
[16:58] <flacoste> several hours
[16:59] <flacoste> actually, i don't know
[16:59] <flacoste> just guessing here
[16:59] <flacoste> i'll measure and see
[16:59] <flacoste> assess
[16:59] <jcsackett> lifeless: so, there isn't a bug filed against project/+branches, but person/+branches has one (bug 627945) and the query is the same in both. i'm thinking either add detail to that bug or file a new bug for project linked to it. thoughts?
[17:01] <mwhudson> mtaylor, jam: which isn't right now, of course
[17:01]  * mwhudson was just getting hungry and optimistic
[17:02] <flacoste> lifeless: http://oreilly.com/catalog/transqlcook/chapter/ch08.html#Calculating%20a%20Median has an actual elegant solution :-)
[17:02] <jam> mwhudson: sounds good
[17:02] <jam> I'm pretty sure poolie is interested too
[17:04] <lifeless> jcsackett: add the page id for the other case to the title, done.
[17:04] <jcsackett> lifeless: fantastic. thanks.
[17:11] <flacoste> hmm, that query does look expensive
[17:12] <lifeless> flacoste: up the cache size as a start
[17:12] <flacoste> lifeless: ack
[17:12] <lifeless> you could denormalise the counts per category
[17:12] <lifeless> given you're starting with a fresh db each run, right ?
[17:18] <mtaylor> mwhudson: yes
[17:20] <mwhudson> jam, mtaylor: i'll loiter by the registration desk
[17:20] <mwhudson> poolie: ^^
[17:55] <lifeless> jml: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/testtools/fixtures/+merge/39388
[18:14] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (101): SUCCESS in 4 hr 4 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/101/
[19:09] <jml> lifeless: reviewed
[19:13] <lifeless> gary_poster: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/storm - needs 0.18 ?
[19:15] <mars> the PyPi version is almost a year old
[19:15] <gary_poster> lifeless, yes, remaining release of storm (per the release instructions) is stalled until Jamu gives me privs to upload docs or does it himself.  There are a number of small things remaining (also announcing it on ML, for instance).
[19:15] <gary_poster> For PyPI, Storm didn't release 0.17 there and it's not on their release checklist, but I got privs to do it anyway, so I'll do it then.
[19:16] <lifeless> gary_poster: Jamu here, go ahead and release, I'll deploy docs later.
[19:16] <gary_poster> Cool Jamu, thanks
[19:16]  * mars loves UDS :)
[19:22] <mwhudson> i am inpressed by the fact that people are just registering kernel imports, and they basically work
[19:23] <mwhudson> it would be much better if we supported stacking for import branches sensibly but well
[19:24] <jelmer> mwhudson: +1
[19:24] <jelmer> it shouldn't really be all that hard if I understand correctly
[19:24]  * mwhudson quickly reaches for his "not a launchpad developer" hat
[19:24]  * jelmer reaches for his "not a launchpad-code developer" hat :-)
[19:25] <mwhudson> jelmer: i think the bug report on this describes what to do fairly clearly
[19:26] <mwhudson> i hope so,  becuase i'm fairly sure i knew what to do at one point and certainly don't any more
[19:33] <jml> lifeless: do you still thing that https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/testtools/+bug/584824 is still worth doing?
[19:33] <jml> think
[19:36] <jml> lifeless: also, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/testtools/+bug/666923 wrt previous discussions
[19:58] <jkakar> gary_poster: Hi!
[19:58] <gary_poster> jkakar: hi :-)
[20:05] <lifeless> deryck: hey
[20:05] <deryck> hi lifeless
[20:05] <lifeless> https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/deployment-stable.html
[20:06] <deryck> looking....
[20:06] <deryck> slow openid dance
[20:09] <lifeless> deryck: so https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/10000 looks ok
[20:09] <lifeless> deryck: I'm not entirely sure how to validate it further
[20:09] <deryck> lifeless, yeah, I'm looking at the changes now to see.
[20:13] <deryck> lifeless, I smell a bad rev.  https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/bugs/10000/+bug-portlet-subscribers-content
[20:14] <deryck> hmmm, maybe that's not gmb's
[20:18] <lifeless> deryck: whats wrong with it ?
[20:18] <deryck> lifeless, that link OOPS for me.
[20:19] <deryck> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1760QS46
[20:21] <deryck> oh, that's security.cfg permissions again.  Like bug expiry script.  We missed something in pg 8.4 migration, I guess.
[20:22] <deryck> lifeless, ok, so gmb's is qa-ok.  Visiting https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/10000/+subscribe confirms the new code is hit and works fine.
[20:23] <lifeless> deryck: will you mark it as such? the two bugs ?
[20:23] <deryck> lifeless, indeed.
[20:23] <lifeless> thanks
[20:25] <deryck> lifeless, do you not get an OOPS at the first URL I provided?  the portlet one.
[20:25] <lifeless> yes, I do, i thought it might be transient but its very quick
[20:26] <deryck> lifeless, transient?  You mean timeout?  I get ProgrammingError.
[20:26] <lifeless> deryck: I meant I thought it might be a slow db or something
[20:27] <deryck> lifeless, ah, ok
[20:27] <deryck> lifeless, we should talk more about this after we get out of sessions, since I saw the same on expiry script test runs.
[20:27] <bigjools> THE EAGLE HAS LANDED
[20:28] <bigjools> where eagle == new buildd manager
[20:28] <deryck> bigjools, awesome!
[20:28] <bigjools> 7k branch with no mechanical changes!
[20:29] <thumper> bigjools: what does it give us?
[20:30] <bigjools> asynchronous comms
[20:30] <bigjools> and far, far better failure detection and dealing with failures
[20:30] <bigjools> lp:~julian-edwards/launchpad/builderslave-resume if you want gory details :)
[20:31] <deryck> hi thumper.  Being at UDS makes us overlap for once. :-)
[20:31] <rockstar> james_w, are you going to have some bandwidth this afternoon?
[20:31] <thumper> deryck: hey
[20:32] <james_w> rockstar, the next session looks pretty good to me
[20:34] <rockstar> james_w, okay, I think I need to make some hard choices here.
[20:34] <james_w> rockstar, 6pm would also work for me
[20:34] <rockstar> james_w, yeah, that won't work at all.  Next session is good, I'll just chat with aq before the next session.
[20:37] <james_w> rockstar, well, that was the session I was thinking going to as well :-)
[20:37] <james_w> rockstar, are you here all week?
[20:37] <rockstar> james_w, indeed I am, but I want to land some work before next week.  :)
[20:37] <james_w> rockstar, sure :-)
[20:38] <james_w> rockstar, where are you now?
[20:38] <rockstar> james_w, I'm in the game development session, but it's a bust, so I can get out now if you can.
[20:38] <james_w> rockstar, I can
[20:38] <james_w> rockstar, outside the plenary room?
[20:40] <rockstar> james_w, I'm in the hall.
[21:12] <jml> bigjools: grats!
[21:13] <rockstar> \o/ BrowserTestCase just got a whole lot better.
[21:13] <bigjools> jml: and thanks to you!
[21:19] <bigjools> jml: FWIW I hammered it on DF with a load of production builders that were borrowed and it didn't put a foot wrong.
[21:19] <jml> bigjools: sweet.
[21:23] <lifeless> rockstar: what got better about it ?
[21:23] <bigjools> jml: of course, I just set myself up for a big fall :)
[21:23] <jml> bigjools: sure. :)
[21:23] <jml> bigjools: it's not going to work the first time. never does.
[21:23] <rockstar> lifeless, I'm teaching it about james_w's soupmatchers.
[21:23] <bigjools> kiko's 1st law of software?
[21:23] <jml> bigjools: exactly
[21:24] <jml> lifeless: https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/launchpad/atexit-warning/+merge/39403
[21:24] <lifeless> jml: I saw, i don't understand it. It seems wrong
[21:24] <jml> lifeless: that's why I wanted to talk about it :)
[21:24] <lifeless> why not just remove the atexit call
[21:25] <lifeless> and if things go screwy fix the code that isn't using a finally where needed.
[21:25] <jml> lifeless: I don't know why the atexit call was there. it seems like a belt-and-braces thing
[21:26] <lifeless> I think its because zope.testing stops teardown when a NotImplemented is enoucountered except in the last runner instance
[21:26] <jml> lifeless: I guess I should do some archeology and find out why it was added.
[21:27] <jml> lifeless: ok. I'm not sure what to do with that though.
[21:27] <lifeless> jml: change zope.testing to not mess about
[21:28] <lifeless> if a layer is setUp, it should tear it down
[21:28] <lifeless> perhaps we could use Fixture to do that ;)
[21:28] <jml> lifeless: I don't want to fix zope.testing to silence this warning
[21:28] <lifeless> jml: the warning is a symptom of the root cause
[21:28] <lifeless> the root cause is that teardown is inconsistently called
[21:29] <lifeless> and because of that we have:
[21:29] <jml> lifeless: the root cause being that layers is a pos
[21:29] <lifeless>  - ordering problems
[21:29] <lifeless> jml: well, what do you want to do?
[21:29] <lifeless> jml: I don't want the fixture code to silently accept teardowns when torn down
[21:30] <lifeless> that seems prone to hiding things
[21:30] <jml> lifeless: it's not doing that, there's a special tear down for atexit, since there's no way of cancelling atexit calls
[21:31] <lifeless> jml: you can use atexit._exithandlers.remove()
[21:31] <jml> lifeless: you think that would be better than the code in the patch?
[21:31] <lifeless> yes
[21:31] <lifeless> because the ugliness would be outside the island of sanity I've created
[21:32] <lifeless> better would be fixing the root cause: zope.testing
[21:32] <jml> I'm not going to fix zope.testing to address this issue
[21:32] <lifeless> well, I may :)
[21:33] <jml> lifeless: you're welcome to it
[21:33] <lifeless> jml: I'm not terribly concerned about pushing it upstream, because I think layers is so poor, I want a good platform for migrating from though.
[21:33] <lifeless> jml: I want us to stop papering over things like this.
[21:36] <jml> lifeless: sure, me too. but to me this is an incremental improvement. we're using atexit today to paper over an issue, and it's generating a warning that has little to do with the underlying issue....
[21:36] <jml> lifeless: I'm patching it to not generate useless the warning.
[21:36] <lifeless> StevenK: https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/deployment-stable.html tag, you're it.
[21:38] <lifeless> jml: but, you're:
[21:38] <lifeless>  - duplicating code
[21:38] <lifeless>  - adding a silent-wrong code path
[21:38] <lifeless>  - leaving the underlying issue open
[21:39] <lifeless> jml: I think its a much better use of your time to just fix the basic cause
[21:39] <jml> lifeless: no, it's not. because that's a significantly larger amount of work, and I've got other things I want to do.
[21:39] <lifeless> jml: I'd be happy with a change that didn't duplicate code and make the server.py module less clear
[21:40] <jml> lifeless: ok. I'm moving to atexit._exithandlers now
[21:44] <jcsackett> i may have missed an email on this topic, but does launchpadlib work on qastaging?
[21:44] <lifeless> it should, but it may need a glue update
[21:45] <jml> lifeless: patch updated.
[21:48] <jcsackett> hm. question the second: is lplib supposed to work with regular staging?
[21:51] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (102): SUCCESS in 3 hr 36 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/102/
[21:51] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=lamont][ui=none][no-qa] Update the changelog for launchpad-buildd.
[21:53] <jml> lifeless: yes.
[21:53] <jml> jcsackett: yes.
[21:53] <jml> (sorry lifeless)
[21:55] <jcsackett> jml: thanks. i must just have something wrong in my setup; staging is telling me that it can't connect b/c it can't forward a request.
[21:55] <thumper> morning fellow hackers
[21:55] <jcsackett> i'll continue futzing with it.
[21:56] <jml> jcsackett: hmm.
[21:56] <jml> thumper: hi
[21:56] <thumper> jml: do you have a few minutes?
[21:56] <jml> thumper: I will very soon.
[21:56] <jml> thumper: in a session right now
[21:57] <thumper> jml: well, I have the standup shortly, and a talk with flacoste after that
[21:57] <jml> thumper: when are you next free?
[21:57] <thumper> jml: probably in 1.5 hours
[21:58] <jcsackett> jml: if that "hmm" indicates interest, the response is pasted here https://pastebin.canonical.com/39102/
[21:58] <flacoste> thumper: i'm free whenever you are
[21:58] <flacoste> i know that our call is only in 30 mins
[21:59] <jml> jcsackett: that looks like a bug that a losa ought to know about
[21:59] <jcsackett> jml: yeah? okay. i was assuming my own screw up, but i'll go tell one.
[21:59] <jml> jcsackett: I don't know
[22:00] <jcsackett> jml: dig. i'm getting a losa now.
[22:01] <jml> thumper: I can be around in 1.5hrs time
[22:02] <thumper> jml: ok
[22:11] <wallyworld_> thumper: abentley: standup?
[22:20] <lifeless> StevenK: ping
[22:21] <StevenK> lifeless: O hai
[22:21] <lifeless> I can has QA? https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/deployment-stable.html
[22:21] <lifeless> (Is it deployable)
[22:22] <StevenK> lifeless: Yes, but let me finish what I'm in the middle of
[22:23] <StevenK> I was unblocked to do so on Friday, and then there was a weekend and a plane trip
[22:38] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (155): SUCCESS in 3 hr 56 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/155/
[23:18] <lifeless> StevenK: bigjools I've requested a review of what was qa'd. Please unblock the queue as soon as possible.
[23:18] <lifeless> or tell me enough to do it myself
[23:18] <bigjools> lifeless: pardon?
[23:18] <lifeless> s/review/deploy/
[23:18] <bigjools> lifeless: need moar context
[23:18] <lifeless> bigjools: https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/deployment-stable.html
[23:19] <lifeless> bigjools: 9 day old unqa'd patch
[23:19] <lifeless> bigjools: (which is to be expected, we're only just in the actually-use-it stage of RFWTAD
[23:20] <bigjools> lifeless: Steve was in the middle of QAing that as far as I know
[23:21] <lifeless> cool
[23:24] <thumper> rockstar: ping
[23:28] <jml> thumper: ping
[23:28] <thumper> jml: just finishing off with flacoste
[23:28] <jml> thumper: ok.
[23:32] <wgrant> "The size of the diff (7194 lines) is larger than your specified limit of 1000 lines" D:
[23:32] <jml> wgrant: it's a big patch.
[23:35] <StevenK> lifeless: Are you saying "Please QA this right now", in leiu of say, dinner?
[23:36] <StevenK> lifeless: And it would take me longer to explain how to QA it than to just do it myself. :-)
[23:38] <flacoste> lifeless: what's the status of removing edge?
[23:41] <flacoste> i actually need to go afk, let's talk about it tomorrow


[01:46] <rambling_dan> just installed lubuntu for the first time :)
[01:47] <rambling_dan> loving it so far
[01:48] <rambling_dan> anyone know a good sound mixer? my sound is a bit on the low side
[02:09] <pantato> hi i adjusted an option for my usb hid  in/etc/modules now my lubuntu is stuck at a prompt when i try to boot up
[02:09] <pantato> anyone know how i can get past it and fix it?
[02:22] <wxl> pantato: more information is required. what did you adjust? when "stuck" does the mouse move, will it accept input, can you get to a VT, etc?
[02:39] <C06> Hi all
[02:40] <C06> I upgraded my lubuntu from 14 to 16
[02:42] <C06> I am facing nividia driver error 0000:0a:000.0 11801a2
[02:42] <C06> Then it's getting into emergency mode
[02:42] <C06> How to resolve this error
[02:46] <C06> Anyone on
[03:10] <lynorian> !nomodeset |C06
[03:18] <lynorian> will at least get you a desktop
[03:22] <C06> Actually it's getting into emergency mode and asking root password
[03:31] <C06> Still it got stucked
[03:31] <C06> Into emergency mode. Any suggestions
[03:32] <C06> Ubottu,
[03:32] <lynorian> C06, did grub get stuck in emergency mode?
[03:33] <C06> Yes I think so. I am selecting Ubuntu kernel after that it's trying to load then it's getting into emergency mode
[03:34] <lynorian> C06, did you remove a disk from a desktop or something or are you booting with less disks than normal
[03:35] <C06> In emergency mode by giving root password I can get into my system cli
[03:35] <C06> 72gb space is there
[03:38] <C06> Any logs can I check lynorian..
[03:38] <lynorian> C06, I meant like you physically pulling drives out of a desktop
[03:39] <C06> Noap it's my laptop.. nothing I did in my hardware lynorian
[03:40] <lynorian> C06, hmm then not sure what is causing it
[03:40] <lynorian> maybe boot into a live session and reinstall grub?
[03:41] <C06> Oh ok ok sure I ll try that one..
[03:42] <C06>  Anyway thanks lynorian
[14:18] <tbnbuddha> hi. i have a fresh installation of lubuntu and got some error messages on screen when loggin in. One: Config_libfm_Home_Lubuntu "Error: [Errno 2] No such file or directory ...." In the directory path there is a letter capitalized instead of normal. that should be the error. how can i find out which  config file i need to edit to solve this? anyone a hint for me?
[16:28] <electricmilk> How do I add an internet shortcut to my desktop in Lubuntu?
[16:35] <electricmilk> I'm trying to do this with firefox by the way and really struggling.


[04:45] <Unit193> netritious: Oh, and now to make your alerts happy, http://unit193.net/openbox/
[13:14] <wrst> morning Omnifrog!
[16:09] <netritious> Unit193: roger...dealing with stupid "badware" on parents PC :/
[16:09] <wrst> netritious oh the joys
[16:09] <wrst> my parents run ubuntu I give them no choice
[16:10] <netritious> If winders is fubar'ed I'm installing ubuntu on it
[16:11] <netritious> it's actually a decent PC wrst, but three users that can't comprehend "stop installing stuff you don't know anything about"
[16:11] <wrst> oh netritious its not a question of the hardware
[16:12] <wrst> its a question of the users :)
[16:12] <netritious> as always, right? :)
[16:12] <wrst> yep
[16:13] <netritious> how's your day going wrst?
[16:13] <wrst> and windows is easier due to the lax handling of the admin user
[16:13] <wrst> going well so far :)
[16:13]  * wrst isn't going to ask netritious that question
[16:13] <netritious> ha ha
[16:14] <wrst> and going to websites that people shouldn't, the old if it sounds too good to be true... that should apply to computers also
[16:15] <cyberanger> netritious: are all three users administrative
[16:16] <netritious> No, just one, but they all know the password so they might as well be
[16:16]  * cyberanger facepalms
[16:16] <wrst> and its hard for that not to happen in a house
[16:16] <netritious> Yep, told my dad not to share password, but anyway lol
[16:17] <netritious> now he gets ubuntu, at least I'm pretty sure that will happen today
[16:17] <netritious> tell me about it cyberanger
[16:17] <cyberanger> yeah, a benifit of living alone and corporate policies against that, and besides, why would I intentionally weaken my setup
[16:17] <netritious> this is the second time in two months I've been called over :/
[16:17] <wrst> ouch
[16:18] <wrst> that will cause you to take drastic measures
[16:18] <netritious> not to drastic for me to put ubuntu on it lol....for them, maybe a bit of a change
[16:18] <netritious> they'll just have to get over it
[16:19] <netritious> I think they will a month or so from now when they aren't infected again
[16:19] <cyberanger> maybe lubuntu would be less drastic, right Unit193
[16:20] <netritious> I know that precise smokes ont hat machine...installed to primary partition but have to have USB thumbdrive to boot it (was my decision)
[16:21] <wrst> netritious: I have the nexus 5
[16:21] <netritious> nice wrst...how much did that set you back?
[16:22] <wrst> the 32GB is 399
[16:22] <wrst> plus tax and shipping of course
[16:22] <netritious> not bad for 32GB
[16:22] <wrst> I think it was right at 450 when all said and done, just trying to track down a sprint sim/uuid card
[16:22] <netritious> which carrier are you using?
[16:22] <netritious> ah ok
[16:22] <wrst> Ting, they are on the sprint network
[16:23] <netritious> I did get some good news today...I get my stp moms old galaxy note
[16:23] <netritious> *step
[16:23] <wrst> nice
[16:23] <wrst> those are nice phones
[16:24] <netritious> yeah will go nicely with my captivate glide
[16:24] <netritious> will have to find some AOSP rom to put on it though....ATT has it all FUBAR'ed and refuses to fix it
[16:25] <netritious> some update was pushed through a few months back and she's had problems ever since
[16:26] <wrst> is that the first note? http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Quincyatt_Info
[16:27] <netritious> wrst: I'm not sure if it's the I or II
[16:27] <wrst> cyanogenmod available for both... I think that would make you very happy
[16:27] <netritious> I was pretty sure all of the galaxy line was officially supported by cyanogenmod
[16:27] <netritious> awesome
[16:28] <netritious> I haven't been able to successfully flash my captivate glide with /anything/...not sure what's up with that, but whatever. At least my phone works heh
[16:28] <netritious> =haven't bricked it by trying to flash it
[16:30] <wrst> that something I love about the nexus phones... so easy to mess with
[19:19] <Unit193> Oh, I should have said, Lubuntu by itself is more XP-like, but the configuration of it is more file based since it has openbox under the hood, when it comes to keyboards.
[19:20] <Unit193> (Obconf/lxappearance-obconf fix the GUI problem.)
[19:25] <wrst> KDE default is pretty Windows 7'ish but on ubuntu kde aka kubuntu is awful
[19:25] <wrst> that is my opinion anyway
[21:23] <wrst> xTEMPLARx:
[21:25] <cyberanger> hey xTEMPLARx
[21:30] <wrst> cyberanger, xTEMPLARx has a quassel core that is connection but he never checks it
[21:31] <wrst> so we can say whatever we want about him :)
[21:32] <cyberanger> lol, lemme guess he prefers a good cli client like me ;-)
[21:33] <wrst> no I think he just has forgotten irc :)
[21:34] <cyberanger> ouch
[22:07] <wrst> howdy chris4585