[07:45] <slacker_nl> can someone give comments on this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
[07:46] <slacker_nl> i realize it is not up to standards, but if someone reads it and gives comments/check for typo's errors or other things I might have overlooked it would be much appreciated
[07:51] <Flannel> Why not just link to the appropriate other pages?
[07:53] <rww> Flannel: you mean like the "(for link see the See also section)" bit? I was wondering that too.
[07:53] <Flannel> Well, we have pages from Breezy on which are up-to-date (or at the very least, mostly up to date and can certainly be made up to date)
[07:54] <Flannel> that is, the upgrade from Breezy to Dapper.  BreezyUpgradeNotes is on wiki.ubuntu.com, and hasn't really been taken care of.
[07:55] <Flannel> As far as your instructions, I'd stay away from sed/perl statements, and show them the sources.list they should have when switching to old-releases and stuff.
[07:56] <Flannel> Your sed lines won't work for some configurations, like if they've totally broken them, or are using other mirrors (well, were)
[07:57] <Flannel> and also, you never mention ensuring proper metapackages are installed
[07:57]  * Flannel is sure thats not exhaustive, but its a good start.
[07:59] <slacker_nl> which metapackages? the update-manager packages need to be installed, which is mentioned several times
[07:59] <Flannel> update-manager didn't exist for pre-dapper upgrades
[07:59] <Flannel> well, insofar as taking care of upgrades.
[08:00] <slacker_nl> yes, that's done via dist-upgrade
[08:00] <Flannel> a kernel metapackage (such as linux-686 or linux-686-smp, etc), ubuntu-standard, ubuntu-minimal, and an appropriate -desktop (ubuntu-desktop)
[08:00] <slacker_nl> Flannel: that will be installed by any default ubuntu release
[08:00] <Flannel> right, but dist-upgrade won't work without the proper metapackages
[08:01] <slacker_nl> ubuntu-standard is installed on a cli install iirc
[08:01] <Flannel> slacker_nl: You can't assume that they're not going to still be installed though.
[08:02] <Flannel> While I admit -standard and -minimal likely won't be removed, -desktop and kernel metapackages do.
[08:02] <slacker_nl> desktop packages are not needed to upgrade (at least, my server installations don't need them and you don't need them to upgrade)
[08:02] <Flannel> slacker_nl: Correct, but they're needed for a successful desktop upgrade.
[08:03] <slacker_nl> i will add the kernel packages
[08:03] <slacker_nl> Flannel: will have to test that
[08:04] <rww> slacker_nl: metapackages being installed or not is one of those things that's not absolutely necessary (and stuff will sometimes work without them), but it's a really good idea and averts a bunch of possible problems.
[08:04] <Flannel> any new programs, or things we've changed, generally get done via -desktop
[08:05] <Flannel> It won't cause the upgrade to fail, but if the point of upgrading is "get the same as I would have with a reinstall" then without the proper metapackages, that won't succeed.
[08:05] <slacker_nl> rww: true, however, very easy to fix by aptitude install $rel-desktop package
[08:06] <Flannel> slacker_nl: Which is exactly what I said should be included in the instructions
[08:06] <slacker_nl> ahh, I see what you mean, if a new package got added by -desktop (which was not in the previous release) it would not be installed if the meta package did not exist
[08:07] <Flannel> but again, for everything after hoary to breezy, why not just link to the current upgrade notes?
[08:10] <slacker_nl> 6.10 to 8.04 is not documented (properly) at the wiki's
[08:11] <slacker_nl> that is the reason why i started that guide ;)
[08:11] <Flannel> 6.10 to 8.04 isn't supported, that's why.
[08:11] <Flannel> To go to 6.10 to 8.04, you have to go 6.10 to 7.04 to 7.10 to 8.04
[08:11] <slacker_nl> i know, that's why i started the EOLupgrades
[08:11] <slacker_nl> yes
[08:11] <slacker_nl> very easy btw
[08:12] <slacker_nl> i've done it half a year ago
[08:12] <Flannel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades?action=recall&rev=60
[08:13] <Flannel> They're all there... juts been removed for some stupid reason.
[08:13] <rww> ah! I knew I'd seen those instructions somewhere. I went looking for them the other day and couldn't find them :(
[08:13] <Flannel> slacker_nl: Perhaps you should just move that page to EOLUpgrades/Feisty or something
[08:13] <Flannel> and then link to it
[08:14] <Flannel> (likewise for the others)
[08:14] <Flannel> that'd make it much easier to handle in the future... move page from /*Upgrades to /EOLUpgrades/*Upgrades
[08:15] <slacker_nl> Flannel: could do that
[08:16] <Flannel> It doesn't really need to be moved I suppose.
[08:16] <Flannel> But, it might keep people from deleting it
[08:16] <slacker_nl> Feisty is redirected to eol upgrades, found out myself 3 days ago
[08:17] <Flannel> right, you can revert it though
[08:18] <Flannel> Keeping each upgrade separate is good though, a monolithic page will get confusing, and its less easy to link directly to where you want to put someone.
[08:20] <slacker_nl> Flannel: don't know why he did it, thought he was someone special
[08:20] <slacker_nl> so didn't bother with it
[20:07] <enhickman> I believe there is spam on your wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/SpellingPunctuationGrammar search for "FANBOYS"? if its not spam it makes the sentence very confusing.
[22:38] <rww> enhickman: It's meant as a mnemonic: if you take the first letter of each of the listed conjunctions, you get that word. It is confusing, though.
[22:40] <enhickman> Ah thanks I get it now.


[00:21] <cjohnston> duanedesign if he's here
[00:23] <duanedesign> jono: whats up?
[00:38] <duanedesign> jono: saw your question in #ubuntuone. I have not run that before, but it looks right to me :)
[00:43] <jono> duanedesign, its ok, I sorted it
[00:43] <jono> thanks!
[07:38] <alourie> good morning
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:04] <jono> morning dholbach
[08:04] <dholbach> hey jono
[08:04] <dholbach> jono, wow, can't you sleep?
[08:04] <jono> hehe, indeed
[08:04] <jono> busy
[08:05] <jono> dholbach, I sent you an email re. accomplishments
[08:05] <dholbach> yep, I saw it
[08:05] <jono> but I spent much of the weekend working on it so now the instructions are a little different
[08:05] <dholbach> but I was too busy with UDW, dev data + graphs, advisory board and other stuff to do something about it :/
[08:06] <jono> no worries!
[08:06] <jono> well I put the branch in https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntuaccomplishments
[08:06] <jono> and created a separate branch where the accomplishments files can live
[08:06] <jono> https://code.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntuaccomplishments/ubuntu-community
[08:07] <jono> the README in lp:ubuntuaccomplishments now explains how to set it up
[08:07] <dholbach> cool
[08:07] <jono> I simplified much of it over the weekend
[08:08] <dholbach> at some stage it probably might make sense to transition over the core code to a core team and to open up the restrictions for submitting accomplishments
[08:08] <dholbach> ... at some stage :)
[08:10] <jono> dholbach, oh totally
[08:10] <dholbach> jono, did you see https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/392087_10150484402243230_729453229_8726511_946604781_n.jpg?
[08:11] <jono> oh wow!
[08:11] <jono> did he get married?
[08:11] <dholbach> it /might/ be a wedding photo :)
[08:11] <jono> :-)
[08:11] <dholbach> his profile says engaged - so I'm not sure
[08:12] <dholbach> he looks a bit blurry, but like a blurry happy man :)
[08:13] <jono> indeed :-)
[08:14] <jono> sweet, I have my trophies dir now syncing over U1 to a headless U1 server
[08:14] <jono> not far off getting the verification piece in place now
[08:15] <dholbach> hola dpm
[08:15] <jono> hey dpm
[08:15] <dpm> hey dholbach, hey jono
[08:15] <dpm> good morning all!
[08:37] <dholbach> james_w, if you later have a tiny little bit of time for http://pad.lv/mps/harvest I'd appreciate it :)
[08:40] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:40] <dholbach> hey czajkowski
[08:54] <jono> ok, bed for me
[08:54] <jono> night all!
[08:57] <alourie> good night jono
[08:57] <popey> nn
[08:58] <jono> night!
[09:27] <head_victim> popey: got time for a quick PM?
[10:11] <s-fox> o/
[11:47] <head_victim> popey: cheers :)
[11:48] <popey> np
[13:36] <mhall119> where does the docs team hang out?
[13:39] <Pendulum> -doc
[13:39] <Pendulum> although it's generally pretty quiet
[13:39] <nigelb> just try to get in touch with mathew east (I think) his name is.
[13:40] <nigelb> Alos, mailinglist.
[13:45] <mhall119> nigelb: do you know his nick?
[13:45] <Pendulum> mhall119: mdke
[13:46] <nigelb> Right, thanks Pendulum :)
[13:46]  * nigelb did thank<tab>
[13:47] <mhall119> thanks Pendulum and nigelb
[13:48] <nigelb> :)
[14:21] <jcastro> mhall119: ok according to my last email they just want you to fill out the form
[14:22] <mhall119> jcastro: who wants me to do what?  When, where and why?
[14:22] <jcastro> oh, well you do it at some point
[14:22] <jcastro> I thought you were just asking me how
[14:22] <mhall119> context jcastro
[14:23] <jcastro> guidebook
[14:23] <mhall119> I wanted the name of the guy in canonical who spearheaded it
[14:23] <jcastro> OH.
[14:23] <jcastro> david mandala
[14:23] <mhall119> ah, now I remember,thanks
[14:23] <jcastro> is this for linaro?
[14:23] <jcastro> because if it is chris just called me and I explained it
[14:24] <mhall119> jcastro: no, just for my own memory
[14:24] <jcastro> ok
[14:24] <mhall119> so I know who to pass cjohnston off to when he comes asking
[14:24] <jcastro> so, when the time comes you just go to their page and sign up for the middle plan
[14:24] <mhall119> cool
[14:24] <jcastro> and then someone mails you and then it's easy from there
[14:24] <mhall119> jcastro: did you see that we got some contributions to make summit more mobile friendly?
[14:25] <jcastro> I did
[14:25] <nigelb> from the birthday boy, sil!
[14:25] <mhall119> heh, yup
[14:25] <mhall119> glad to know this is how he spends his birthday time
[14:26] <mhall119> we should all download birthday e-cards and share them with his U1 account
[14:26] <nigelb> jcastro: do we pay guidebook for every event?
[14:26] <jcastro> yes
[14:26] <nigelb> so, at some point summit doing great on a mobile is a good thing to have instead of doing that?
[14:26] <jcastro> yeah
[14:26] <jcastro> but guidebook does things that we'll need
[14:27] <jcastro> like, putting the sponsors in there, etc.
[14:27] <nigelb> I agree.
[14:27] <jcastro> their value (IMO) isn't the guidebook as much as it's 0 touch for us
[14:27] <jcastro> we just give them the URL of UDS and they set the whole thing up, it's literally no work.
[14:27] <nigelb> it should Just work (tm) unless we screw up summit.
[14:28] <mhall119> jcastro: except they don't pull in user schedules
[14:28] <jcastro> they do, it's just not connected to summit
[14:28] <mhall119> nigelb: you'd better not screw up summit
[14:28] <jcastro> if you use the guidebook and make your own schedule then it does that
[14:28] <nigelb> I'm taking a summit vacation this cycle.
[14:28] <jcastro> heh
[14:28] <mhall119> jcastro: yeah, but now you're maintaining 2 schedules
[14:28] <nigelb> Actually, I almost took an ubuntu vacation.
[14:28] <mhall119> one in LP/Summit and one in Guidebook
[14:29] <jcastro> mhall119: right
[14:29] <jcastro> mhall119: it's your baby now, your call. :)
[14:29] <jcastro> though I personally would go at least one more with guidebook just to have one less thing to worry about until after you get a UDS under your belt
[14:29] <mhall119> unless sil comes back with major patches, we'll still be using it
[14:30] <jcastro> someone from kubuntu was working on a free client as well
[14:30] <nigelb> THE BEST PART.
[14:30] <jcastro> but it was just a clone I think, it wasn't like tied to summit iirc
[14:30] <mhall119> jcastro: ah, ok
[14:30] <nigelb> jcastro: Remember when you always do the "oh dude, thsi broke", mhall119 already will know what broke and will be writing a fix for it.
[14:30] <jcastro> yeah
[14:30] <nigelb> This is win.
[14:30] <jcastro> we really found the perfect sucker to do this
[14:30] <jcastro> I mean, person
[14:30] <nigelb> haha
[14:31] <nigelb> those keys are right next to each othere!
[14:31] <mhall119> nigelb: that's been the case for at least a year now
[14:31] <nigelb> I make that mistake too
[14:31] <nigelb> mhall119: Except, you're going to be the guy seeing the breakage as well :D
[14:31]  * cprofitt waves
[14:31] <mhall119> nigelb: I was seeing it before too
[14:32]  * nigelb waves to cprofitt
[14:32] <jcastro> cprofitt: hey, how's the arm
[14:32] <jcastro> did you eat that cheese?
[14:32] <nigelb> mhall119: I mean, things like sponsorship. I almost never touch it.
[14:32] <mhall119> I did
[14:37] <cprofitt> jcastro: arm is fine -- doing well... bad weekend though for other reasons. Car leaking fluids - trying to get a new one today -- youngest daughter broke her foot; going to ortho at 10:30
[14:38] <mhall119> cprofitt: can't catch a break can youA?
[14:38] <cprofitt> seemingly not this year, but that happens at times
[14:38] <cprofitt> and the year is young still
[14:38] <cprofitt> :-)
[14:42] <jcastro> cprofitt: dang, does your family do daredevil stunts on the weekend?
[14:43] <cprofitt> jcastro: my two youngest were playing 'Gorilla'
[14:43]  * cprofitt facepalms
[14:43] <cprofitt> and she jumped off the toybox and hit the floor wrong
[14:43] <nigelb> oh fun
[15:16] <dpm> jcastro, you asked about updating apps in d.u.c quite a while ago, but got no answer. I've finally digged out how to do it and documented it here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/updating-your-app/ - I think it'd be a good idea to feature it in askubuntu so it's easier to find. Do you want to ask it there and I'll reply with the answer?
[15:18] <jcastro> there is an existing question for that
[15:18] <jcastro> one sec
[15:18] <jcastro> I remember someone asking
[15:20] <jcastro> give me a sec to find it
[15:21] <dpm> jcastro, ah cool, even better :)
[15:22] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/64912/will-applications-in-the-software-center-receive-updates-of-new-versions
[15:22] <jcastro> that doesn't seem to be what we need though is it?
[15:23] <dpm> no, it's not really the same thing
[15:23] <jcastro> oh, I found this one while looking that needs to have a developer.u.c answer: http://askubuntu.com/questions/16446/how-to-get-my-software-into-ubuntu
[15:23] <jcastro> ok, I will reask my question on there dpm
[15:24] <dpm> jcastro, cool, thanks. That one ^ already has a d.u.c answer, the d.u.c is mentioned
[15:25] <dpm> but I should probably review it
[15:25] <jcastro> oh right, sorry, it was buried to me
[15:25] <jcastro> but yeah, a review wouldn't hurt
[15:25] <jcastro> dpm: what mailing list did I send that mail to? I totally forgot where it is
[15:25] <dpm> jcastro, ubuntu-app-devel
[15:26] <jcastro> "How do I update my application in the software center?" sound like a good title?
[15:27] <dpm> yeah, that sounds good
[15:27] <dpm> or 'my own', perhaps
[15:30] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/99900/how-do-i-update-my-own-application-in-the-software-center
[15:30] <jcastro> feel free to submit edits to make the question be exactly what you want and I can approve them on the spot.
[15:34] <dpm> jcastro, cool, thanks. I've just answered it as well
[15:35] <jcastro> hey so, let me ask you a theoretical question
[15:35] <jcastro> what happens when an app author says
[15:35] <jcastro> "hey wait a minute, why am I in the archive, screw that, remove me so I can just go offcycle from ubuntu and upgrade at my own pace."
[15:39] <dpm> jcastro, in that case, he should probably talk to the package maintainer and request the removal from the archive. Unfortunately, right now the policy is that you cannot have "My Apps" apps if they are already in the archive. I'd personally much like to allow both, and we've talked about it, but right now there is no work in progress towards that
[15:48] <jo-erlend> dpm, wouldn't that make it more difficult to sell free software in USC?
[15:49] <dpm> hey jo-erlend, I hadn't noticed you were here too! :) - In which way do you think it would make it more difficult?
[15:49] <jo-erlend> dpm, that's a new development. I only joined a couple of days ago. :)
[15:50] <jo-erlend> well. Let's say I write an app and I would like to make money from it, but I do not want to use a proprietary license. So I put it for sale as GPL in USC at $5usd. But then MOTU adds the same version to Universe. I'll have to compete with myself?
[15:52] <jono> morning all
[15:52] <JanC> jo-erlend: it would allow your users to first try, and then pay when they like it
[15:52] <jo-erlend> morning jono :)
[15:52] <jono> hey jo-erlend
[15:52] <jono> hows things?
[15:52] <jo-erlend> JanC, what would that mechanism look like?
[15:52] <dholbach> hey jono
[15:53] <balloons> it would also be interesting to allow USC to operate on a donate sort of model
[15:53] <jo-erlend> jono, good. I've applied for membership, and I think that'll be considered tomorrow, so I'm excited about that. :)
[15:53] <jono> hey dholbach
[15:53] <jono> jo-erlend, nice!
[15:53] <bkerensa> Top of the morning to you all!
[15:53] <jono> hey bkerensa
[15:53] <bkerensa> good morning jono
[15:55] <JanC> jo-erlend: I didn't look at the possibilities in depth, was just thinking that having the same application in both would make that possible
[15:56] <jo-erlend> JanC, it is a seriously difficult topic.
[15:56] <JanC> jo-erlend: alternatively, you could also offer some additional value in the paid version, of course
[15:56] <jo-erlend> some people might even have difficulty understanding the concept of paying for free software. :)
[15:57] <jo-erlend> JanC, full circle then. Why should the extended version not also be available in universe?
[15:57] <JanC> companies pay a lot for free software ;)
[15:57] <bkerensa> I donate to Mozilla every year so I guess I pay for free software (Heck and I only use Thunderbird :P)
[15:58] <JanC> jo-erlend: many of those people probably have difficulty to pay for closed source software too  ;)
[15:59] <jo-erlend> JanC, that is a valid point and I've argued that myself. But then I'd rather have payment being optional than to have the same software in two places.
[15:59] <jo-erlend> anyway... Dinner! :)
[16:00] <jono> dholbach, all set?
[16:00] <dholbach> yep
[16:00] <dholbach> go go go! :)
[16:00] <jono> dholbach, creating hangout
[16:01] <JanC> jo-erlend: from a maintenance/support PoV two different versions might be more work indeed
[16:02] <JanC> which will happen, as the paid version will probably get updates with new features much quicker
[16:05] <dholbach> jono, still there?
[16:07] <mhall119> balloons: IIRC, the "pay what you like" concept for USC has been tossed around
[16:07] <mhall119> to support both donating to open-source projects, as well as allowing humble-indie-bundle type sales
[16:25] <popey> oooh
[16:27] <balloons> mhall119, yes, that would be cool.. But to answer jo-erlend's question, users could chose to pay (or not) for the software and consider it a "donation"
[16:27] <bkerensa> mhall119: Apparently there is a pay what you like Panera bread shop in Portland somewhere and that model isn't working for them so well :P but then again USC doesn't have to pay power bills, lease and employees :)
[16:28] <popey> pay what you want works best for intangible items
[16:28] <balloons> pay what you like is different, but I'm sure you've heard of the bagel guy. he simply asks people to pay, and leaves a box to do so
[16:29] <balloons> bkerensa, do they pay what they like to their employees and food supply vendors? :-)
[16:30] <jono> dpm, all set?
[16:31] <dpm> jono, yep!
[16:31] <bkerensa> balloons: Nope which is why they are not doing so well... Apparently Panera turned three of their bread shops nationwide into pay what you want shops.... I just know the one in Portland has had issus ;)
[16:31] <bkerensa> issues*
[16:32] <jono> dpm, invite sent
[16:41] <snap-l> I think pay-what-you-want is better for smaller businesses than Panera
[16:42] <snap-l> The perception is that Panera can afford to not receive as much as, let's say, a smaller home-town bakery
[16:42] <JanC> we ask people to pay-if/what-they-want for Ubuntu CDs at computer fairs...  ;)
[16:42] <jcastro> my perception is that their chicken pot pie in a bread bowl is awesome.
[16:43] <jussi> my perception is that chicken pot pie sounds awesome
[16:44] <snap-l> jcastro: We had some of those oven-baked frozen pot pies on Thursday
[16:44] <snap-l> Not as good as the real thing, but they do in a pinch
[16:44] <JanC> snap-l: I think having direct contact with the people who profit from donations is what is important, not necessarily the size of the company
[16:45] <snap-l> JanC: Yeah, it's harder to tell the guy sitting at a table to suck it
[16:46] <jcastro> I've asked about donations to OSS in the software center before, and it's a complicated mess that is nearly impossible to solve
[16:46] <JanC> snap-l: also, if you know that the people in Panera shops don't get (properly) paid if they don't get enough money, you'd probably give more
[16:47] <JanC> (although in practice it would be illegal not to pay employees, of course)
[16:47] <JanC> so we're back to the "they get paid anyway"
[16:48] <mhall119> bkerensa: well the pay-what-you-like is evidently working out well for indie game developers, so if we can offer them USC as a sales channel for that I think it would be great for everyone
[16:51] <JanC> the funny thing is that some people pay way more than you would expect, which helps even out the ones who don't pay (much)
[16:52] <JanC> e.g. we have got 20 € for an Ubuntu CD-R(!) more than once
[16:54] <JanC> (that's > 26 USD)
[16:57] <balloons> JanC, that's awesome.. and clearly someone wanted to make sure others could get a cd
[16:58] <JanC> balloons: yes, it's always existing users (who don't really need it) who do that
[16:58] <mhall119> JanC: I've had people leave $20 and not even take a CD
[16:59] <mhall119> it's more a "support a cause you care about" than "pay what you think it's worth"
[16:59] <mhall119> which is why it works for Ubuntu and indie games, but not so much for Panera
[16:59] <JanC> mhall119: that too, although generally we would give them some other stuff then
[16:59] <JanC> posters, t-shirts, etc.
[16:59] <mhall119> "increase shareholder value" isn't a cause most people will support
[17:00] <JanC> ..., stickers, whatever we happen to have with us  ;)
[17:00] <mhall119> JanC: all I had were Qimo CDs, so it really was just a straight donation
[17:00] <JanC> or we insist they take a CD and give it to someone else  ☺
[17:03] <JanC> also, people obviously *want* to pay for open source: http://gparted.org/donations.php
[17:05] <JanC> and the variations in donations probably reflects on how much people *can* donate in some cases...
[17:12] <popey> http://www.linuxmint.com/donors.php also
[17:14] <JanC> popey: funny how some of those donate 1 USD to get their "cialis" website listed there...    I'm sure quite a few would be interested in a talk on Cloud/juju
[18:32] <jcastro> heck yeah
[18:32] <jcastro> that's why I'm going. :)
[18:32] <bkerensa> well your coming for OSCON :P
[18:32] <bkerensa> I mean a talk for our LoCo
[18:32] <bkerensa> :)
[18:33] <jcastro> oh, when does your loco meet?
[18:33] <bkerensa> we have lots of people who work in Enterprise IT and DevOps folks too
[18:33] <bkerensa> :D
[18:33] <bkerensa> jcastro: Aside from release parties, jams etc its kind of sporadic in nature :) but I can set something up with a venue and gather at the very least the Portland folks which is 15-20
[18:33] <bkerensa> :)
[18:34] <jcastro> sure, I'll do whatever
[18:34] <jcastro> as long as it doesn't conflict with the charm school or whatever we'll have planned for OSCON
[18:34] <bkerensa> okie doke well I will ping you when we get closer to setup a date/time :)
[18:34] <bkerensa> nah not at all
[18:35] <bkerensa> In fact California (LoCo) has folks coming up for OSCON too so we might have a real nice turnout for some juju talk :)
[18:38] <czajkowski> jcastro: any of this charm school happening in EU or just all US side?
[18:40] <jcastro> US so far
[18:40] <jcastro> I am going to investigate a webinar
[18:40] <czajkowski> :/
[18:40] <czajkowski>  no eu love :(
[18:41] <jcastro> I don't have many people in .eu who could give charm schools
[18:42]  * popey points jcastro at Daviey ☺
[18:43] <jcastro> it's tricky, that's a bunch of work for someone who is already overloaded
[18:43] <czajkowski> heh :D
[18:43] <czajkowski> jcastro: you mean there isnobdy over this side of the world who could attend EU events and hold charm schools?
[18:44] <jcastro> no charmers, no; I have juju coredevs (slammed), and other server team folks (also slammed).
[19:00] <jono> jcastro, did you want a call? I know we only spoke recently
[19:00] <jcastro> I am good for today
[19:00] <jono> jcastro, cool
[19:00] <jcastro> \m/
[19:02] <bodhi_zazen> jcastro: sorry, was AFK, but yes, anything we can help with ?
[19:03] <cprofitt> jcastro: I gotta learn me some charms
[19:03] <cprofitt> I need good juju
[19:03] <jcastro> bodhi_zazen: nothing I just wanted to mention that newz is linking up with the guy who wants to do SSO for the forum, but newz just sent out the mail right now anyway
[19:03] <jono> my arms ache
[19:03] <jono> I am trying to get my ass in shape
[19:03] <jcastro> jono: metal?
[19:04] <jono> so started doing press ups
[19:04] <jono> press ups suck
[19:04] <jono> jcastro, I wish
[19:04] <jcastro> my legs are crushed
[19:04] <jono> jcastro, dude, that Chris Broderick thing was awesome
[19:04] <jcastro> standing all day is not easy
[19:04] <jcastro> I know right
[19:04] <jcastro> there's this other video of him at NAMM which is like almost impossible to believe
[19:05] <jono> jcastro, it makes me want to sell my guitar
[19:05] <jono> anyone know if you can propose a merge to a personal branch (e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntuaccomplishments/ubuntu-community)
[19:05] <jono> could someone propose a merge into that branch?
[19:06] <cprofitt> I just started to teach myself Guitar jono
[19:06] <jono> cprofitt, nice!
[19:06] <cprofitt> struggling with the C chord... and not even going to consider the F#
[19:06] <jono> hehe
[19:06] <jono> cprofitt, just learn a power chord
[19:06] <jono> and then you will be set
[19:06] <cprofitt> lol
[19:06] <cprofitt> I got an acoustic... not sure they have power chords
[19:06] <bodhi_zazen> thanks jcastro , I think we have a few who can help, probably need to open a team on LP
[19:06] <jono> http://www.guitaralliance.com/guitar_lessons/power_chords/
[19:06] <cprofitt> :-)
[19:07] <jcastro> jono: the branch merge thing asks me for another branch
[19:07] <jcastro> so I think yes?
[19:07] <cprofitt> thanks for the links... will study up
[19:07] <jcastro> want me to propose something to see how it works?
[19:07] <balloons> cprofitt, if you end up like me it will take forever to get the basic chord shapes..  barring for a chord will be out of the question.. Then one day finger strength will take over and you'll be all set
[19:07] <jono> jcastro, yeah, could you branch my branch, edit something, and then propose it
[19:07] <jono> call it "test" or something
[19:08] <balloons> it was a elliptically progression
[19:11] <cprofitt> balloons: yep -- I am doing some exercises on the guitar as well to be able to work on chords and finger placement
[19:11] <cprofitt> I hope strength will get there before arthritis :-)
[19:11] <jono> jcastro, any luck with it?
[19:12] <balloons> jono: incoming document shares..
[19:12] <jono> balloons, oooh
[19:15] <jono> balloons, cool, will check them soon ready for our call
[19:16] <jcastro> jono: ok I can't figure out how to propose my branch to yours
[19:16] <jono> in your branch page, click the Propose For Merging link
[19:16] <jcastro> I don't get one
[19:16] <jcastro> because it forced me to do a +junk branch
[19:16] <jcastro> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~jorge/ubuntuaccomplisments/test-push/": : Project 'ubuntuaccomplisments' does not exist.
[19:16] <jono> hmmm
[19:17] <jcastro> that should work shouldn't it? If I push to ubuntuaccomplishments
[19:17] <jono> no
[19:17] <jono> oh hang on
[19:17] <jono> ok, so do this:
[19:17] <jono>  bzr branch lp:~jonobacon/ubuntuaccomplishments/ubuntu-community
[19:17] <jono> no change something in there, or touch a few files to add to it
[19:18] <jono> then do:
[19:18] <jono> bzr add
[19:18] <jono> bzr commit
[19:18] <jono> hmm maybe this isnt possible
[19:19] <mhall119> jono: where can I find members of the ARB?
[19:19] <jono> mhall119<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:19] <mhall119> thanks
[19:20] <jono> balloons, mind if we push our call back by 30 mins, I am going to pass out if I don't eat something soon
[19:20] <balloons> jono, lol :-) I'll just be typing along on this, so yea.. I'm open all afternoon
[19:21] <jono> thanks balloons
[19:21] <jono> jcastro, so when you have updated to branch can you: bzr push lp:~jorge/ubuntuaccomplishments/my-new-branch ?
[19:22] <jcastro> yeah that doesn't work
[19:22] <jono> hmmm
[19:22] <jcastro> it gives me that error
[19:22] <jcastro> which makes no sense to me
[19:22] <jono> that's weird
[19:22] <jono> it should work
[19:22] <jcastro> but this has to be possible, it's like a fundamental part of DVCS, heh
[19:22] <jono> let me test
[19:24] <jono> jcastro, works for me, but I am not sur eif this is because I am ~jonobacon
[19:27] <jcastro> it lets me push to +junk all day, but then of course I can't propose merging back
[19:27] <jcastro> this question feels james_w-ish ...
[19:28] <jono> jcastro, and you originally branched my ubuntu-community branch?
[19:28] <jcastro> yep
[19:29] <jcastro> and I just did a MP to the juju docs before you pinged me, so I am pretty sure I'm not totally messed up
[19:31] <jono> weird
[19:31] <jono> worse case scenario I will set up a new project
[19:42] <jono> jcastro, aq got it working
[19:42] <jono> thanks for trying though
[19:46] <jcastro> o_O?
[19:46] <jcastro> what did I mess up?
[19:47]  * jcastro sadtrombones
[19:52] <jono> jcastro, not sure
[19:52] <jcastro> ok, so lp is nice to people on birthdays
[19:54] <jono> haha it seems so
[19:54] <jono> I am glad that people can propose merges into it though
[19:54] <jono> as it means all the different accomplishments collections can be part of the same project
[19:54] <jono> with different owners
[19:54] <akgraner> czajkowski, is the FOSSevents Calendar still being populated?  Are you still involved in that?
[20:00] <jono> balloons, all set?
[20:00] <balloons> yep yep
[20:00] <jono> sending a hangout invite
[20:02] <jono> mhall119, btw, I don't think we need download stats as so much ratings and reviews popularity
[20:02] <jono> an app with 600 ratings is more interestingthan an app with 6 ratings
[20:03] <mhall119> ok
[20:03] <mhall119> but an app can get a lot of use without getting many (or any) ratings
[20:07] <james_w> jcastro, 'ubuntuaccomplisments' has a typo :-)
[20:10]  * jcastro  corrects and hits enter.
[20:10] <jcastro> jono: I should be fired.
[20:11] <jono> jcastro, agreed
[20:11] <jono> lol
[20:22] <cjohnston> jcastro: what state has the most canonical employees?
[20:22] <jcastro> no clue
[20:22] <pangolin> confusion
[20:23] <pangolin> :)
[20:23] <cjohnston> +1
[20:23] <cjohnston> sounds like something we should know
[20:24] <jcastro> ok
[20:55] <balloons> does anyone know what happens if I switch distros and want to use software I paid for from ubuntu software center? would I have to install usc on the distro to use it or ?
[20:59] <MrChrisDruif> I absolutely don't know balloons
[21:00] <popey> balloons: if you downloaded the software, surely you should keep it safe?
[21:01] <balloons> I am asking in a retorically sense.. someone else asked, and I thought it was a great question. In this case it was respect to a game, and I'm sure the developer would help if a key was needed, etc.. However, I'm wondering if there is any sort of policy regarding keeping your purchases your own or not..
[21:03] <balloons> *retorically=rhetorical whew, typing
[23:17] <balloons> g-night everyone :-)
[23:20] <bkerensa> gnight balloons


[00:06] <Sachse_Siechtum> I have some sound issues in the ET:QW demo (cracking sound)
[06:11] <aunvachotek> can garena 4.0 run normal on wine?
[06:12] <genii> !appdb
[07:19] <Chelovek> ËÔÏ-ÔÏ ÇÏ×ÏÒÉÔ ÐÏ ÒÕÓÓËÉ?
[07:21] <TheSheep> !ru | Chelovek
[07:23] <Chelovek> tam pusto (((
[07:24] <TheSheep> Chelovek: then try later when the people woke up
[07:25] <TheSheep> Chelovek: it's empty here too :)
[07:25] <Chelovek>  ;)
[08:45] <Sysi> where should i ask about Xubuntu lucid 10.04, here or ubuntu+1?
[08:55] <bazhang> #ubuntu+1
[09:35] <Balsaq> Sysi!
[09:36] <Balsaq> good morning xubuntu channel
[09:38] <knome> morning bal
[09:38] <knome> ...saq
[09:38] <Balsaq> knome! master of that is xubuntu!
[09:38] <knome> hehe
[09:39] <Sysi> no help on
[09:40] <Sysi> * #ubuntu+1 with keyring problem in lucid
[09:40] <knome> hum?
[09:40] <knome> :)
[09:40] <Sysi> keyboard in this eee 701 is a bit difficult
[09:42] <Sysi> problem is that i can't
[09:42] <Sysi> *shrug*
[09:42] <Sysi> \dunno how to set up passwd for default keyring
[19:06] <confusious> Hi-de-ho everybody !!
[19:07] <confusious> Helloooooooo ??
[19:08] <confusious> Anybody ?? Would someone pleasse talk to me ?? I'm lonely ! {Heh,heh}
[19:12] <confusious> Hey there Moose
[19:14] <Sysi> confusious: for common chatting you should go for example to #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:15] <confusious> okay.....hmmmmmm I'll try...I'm pretty new at this stuff
[19:16] <Sysi> no problem, but this is ment to be support channel/helpdesk
[19:17] <confusious> Still there ? If so,so what you're saying is that I should "join" that channel ?
[19:17] <bazhang> yep
[19:18] <bazhang> type /join #channelname
[19:19] <confusious> Well,cool.Thank you.....I'm not sure if that's even where I should be.....It's just that I have a couple of generalized computer questions
[19:20] <bazhang> well this is specifically about xubuntu ; generalized linux? something other?
[19:21] <confusious> Naaaaah.Just gen comp maybe I could ask you ?
[19:21] <bazhang> hardware? linux? ms?
[19:22] <confusious> Firefox ?.......WHAT is the reason for pages trying to auto reload ? Should I allow them to ?
[19:22] <confusious> I'm sorry if I'm in the wrong place
[19:29] <confusious> Hmmmmmmm.Tried typing & entering "/join#ubuntu-offtopic" I got an "unknown command"
[19:30] <bazhang> its /join #channel with a space
[19:30] <confusious> ahhhhh thank you
[19:32] <likemindead> Wow...
[19:52] <Sysi> woa, i haven't noticed before how much we have cool art-stuff on repos
[19:54] <knome> Sysi, ? :P
[19:54] <Sysi> all honour propably don't belong to you :b
[19:55] <knome> no, but i'd like to know what our users like
[19:55] <Sysi> but all those icon themes for example
[19:56] <Sysi> i'm starting to have feeling that i *must* get xubuntu lucid to my desktop also
[19:57] <knome> heh
[20:00] <Sysi> but if you want new(?) idea, you could make xfwm theme with round buttons, like radial-emerald
[20:01] <knome> :F
[20:01] <knome> okay
[20:01] <Sysi> just an idea, i already made one to my netbook
[20:01] <knome> if you are interested in future theme development, join #shimmer
[20:02] <Sysi> xubuntu-specific?
[20:07] <slow-motion> hi
[20:19] <schme> Hello #xubuntu.  I have installed xubuntu and it was running fine up until today. Now I booted the laptop and it said i810 driver was missing and wanted to run in low-res graphics mode.
[20:20] <schme> So I clicked ok and got the graphical login screen. I click my user, enter passwd, and it loads a bit, then the login screen pops up again.
[20:20] <schme> How do I actually log in?
[20:26] <schme> Also I am curious about how to enable the wifi network. When I could log in it asks me for a passwd. Now I can just login to console so I get no passwd prompt.
[20:44] <lexe> Does anyone know if nvidia xid errors are caused by software (driver) bugs or hardware malfunction? I'm experiencing random hard freezes, these xid errors are the last errors available in syslog.
[20:51] <Sysi> have you installed propietary driver?
[20:54] <lexe> i just installed the restricted driver coz ubuntu instructed me to do so
[20:54] <lexe> on a clean install ..
[20:54] <lexe> its a new computer ..
[20:54] <Sysi> you could try the open driver
[20:55] <Sysi> in settings are propietary driver managment
[20:55] <lexe> is this the driver available in the software center?
[20:57] <Sysi> you shouldn't need to install it separately
[20:58] <Sysi> just set it to be used
[20:58] <lexe> im sorry, where can i do this?
[20:59] <Sysi> somewhere in menu, propably under settings, is 'propietary driver managment' or something like that
[21:00] <lexe> i can only activate the proprietary driver via system - prefs - hardware drivers (using 9.10)
[21:01] <lexe> maybe if i remove this one again itll be the open driver?
[21:01] <lexe> (open means nog 3d accel i guess?)
[21:03] <Sysi> yeah, it uses open driver if you disable the propietary one
[21:04] <Sysi> idk how well open driver works, but you can test if problem is matter of driver
[21:05] <lexe> k
[21:05] <lexe> ill try that :)
[21:05] <lexe> thx for your help m8 :)
[21:07] <Sysi> np :)
[22:10] <slow-motion> n8
[23:56] <m8t> hello, does someone know who I can poke about Ruby-GNOME2? I have a problem using Threads but currently I reproduce the problem only under Ubuntu 9.10


[13:09] <Amaranath> Hi
[13:09] <Amaranath> i have a small doubt while doing coding in java language
[13:10] <Amaranath> is any one can help he
[14:00] <zbenjamin> daker: is this just for a basic template? or did you change the project files?
[14:07] <daker> zbenjamin: I didn't change anything i'll do another test to confirm
[14:08] <zbenjamin> daker: i'd need to check the feature files that handle the installing to see how it should work
[17:25] <daker> kalikiana or zsombi "pattern" should be a RegExp not String  https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/sdk-15.04.6/Ubuntu.Components.SortFilterModel/#filter.pattern-prop


 :O
[11:24] <tsimonq2> s/year/cycle/
[11:24]  * ahoneybun kinda wishes timezones where gone
[11:24] <ahoneybun> *were
[11:25] <dholbach> tsimonq2, yes - there was the concern that ubucon europe would be too close for travel
[11:25] <popey> lets all move to UTC
[11:25] <tsimonq2> ic dholbach
[11:25] <dholbach> and we figured that with an overflow track we could get it all nice and tightly wrapped in 2 days
[11:25] <ahoneybun> agreed
[11:25] <dholbach> and we can add more sessions if needed
[11:25]  * ahoneybun plans a Docs session maybe
[11:25] <dholbach> go go go
[11:25] <dholbach> apart from the community track there were a few slots still open the last time
[11:26] <knome> how's the community involvement been since UDS->UOS?
[11:26] <ahoneybun> depends on the time
[11:27] <ahoneybun> mm I don't see anything up on summit yet
[11:28] <knome> ^ the above was a sincere question, so if anybody has any thoughts about it...
[11:28] <ahoneybun> knome: I've seen a few communites work together in it
[11:28] <ahoneybun> Ubuntu Mate, Kubuntu
[11:30] <knome> has running the sessions during UOS brought any extra benefits over just getting together at any time?
[13:31] <svij> Mister_Q: dpm: call?
[13:52] <svij> dpm: just saw your mail after ilonka told me that
[13:54]  * svij hates gmail for hiding mails in deep labels …
[13:56] <dpm> svij, sorry, a bit of a busy afternoon today
[13:56] <dpm> Good thing Ilonka had seen it
[13:56] <svij> dpm: no worries, can we do one next tuesday then? I'll need to make your days even busier. ;)
[13:58] <dpm> svij, yes, that'd work, thanks
[13:59] <svij> dpm: I think you have to move the calender entry
[14:21] <dpm> svij, done
[22:50] <wxl> just heard that Kilos, our evangelist in Africa, had a heart attack while visiting his long lost ex-wife and daughter in Australia. the medical bills are unaffordable and he runs the risk of not being able to return easily to Australia to see his family without some help. so go help a good cause: https://www.gofundme.com/ReunionRoadblock/


[22:27] <Takyoji> Trying to remember; wasn't there something as of Arduino in the metro previously, or an Arduino group or something?
[22:27] <Takyoji> Event, group, whatever it was; couple months ago perhaps
[22:31] <ColinHarrington> I'd love to know about that..
[22:33] <ColinHarrington> working on an Arduino project at the moment
[22:34] <Takyoji> ahh, intressant. What type of project exactly?
[23:46] <ColinHarrington> multi-colored LEDs on an 88 key keyboard, affected by midi :-)
[23:47] <ColinHarrington> I have a bunch of it prototyped but not with the full 52 LEDs or drilled into the keyboard yet.
[23:47] <ColinHarrington> remind me to send a link when its done.


[01:08] <nixternal> hello bimberi
[01:08] <bimberi> hi nixternal
[01:08] <nixternal> would be nice to have a MTWiki Spec to track
[01:08] <nixternal> lol
[01:09] <nixternal> i hate when that happens
[01:09] <bimberi> the meeting finished at 06:45, had to attend to things like breakfast, children, getting to work ...
[01:09] <nixternal> hehe
[01:09] <bimberi> i'll be able to do them in spare moments here :)
[01:09] <nixternal> fun fun
[01:09] <nixternal> take your time on the minutes..no rush
[01:11] <bimberi> nixternal: if you think a spec will work for what you want to do then go for it
[01:11] <nixternal> im trying to figure that out now
[01:12] <nixternal> im looking over other wiki specs..and none of the ones i see have been successfull
[01:12] <nixternal> however who know how the management was on it
[01:12] <bimberi> yes, but i think the issue there is simply whether ubuntu-marketing should be subscribed to the spec
[01:13] <nixternal> i think they should..that way there members can follow and hop on board as it goes
[01:13] <bimberi> surely a spec can be a standalone thing - idk yet, but will be looking into it too
[01:13] <nixternal> right now...im trying to merge a spec of mine with one of Riddell's, for Kubuntu doc/support system
[01:14] <nixternal> you can use a spec as a standalone for sure...but it would be good to have the team involved in it
[01:15] <nixternal> thefreak is right ;)
[01:19] <nixternal> i think that if anything, products shouldn't have been created, but maybe projects?   for creating specs and what not
[03:31] <nixternal> bimberi: are you going to put the minutes on the wiki as well?
[03:32] <nixternal> nm..looks like you already did ;)
[03:32] <bimberi> !lart nixternal
[03:32] <bimberi> :P
[03:33] <nixternal> heh..i never knew about /MeetingLogs
[03:34] <bimberi> lots of fun reading there
[03:34] <nixternal> im not reading it again ;)
[03:35] <bimberi> 3 times (for me) was enough ;P
[03:37] <nixternal> i bet
[03:41] <nixternal> how come when i send emails to the list, nobody answers them?  are they that bad ;)
[03:49] <sara_> hello all
[03:49] <ThunderStruck> hi
[03:49] <sara_> I don't know if someone could help me witth the wiki
[03:50] <bimberi> hi sara_
[03:50] <sara_> How do you create a new page?
[03:50] <troy_s> sara_, use the templates
[03:50] <troy_s> type in the name of the page you want to create:  wiki.ubuntu.com/Where/Whatever
[03:50] <bimberi> sara_: or just put in the URL you want and type create new page
[03:50] <troy_s> then click the template from the list below.
[03:51] <bimberi> s/type/click/
[03:51] <sara_> Ok how do I use a template?
[03:51] <sara_> Where do I put the Url
[03:51] <troy_s> sara_:  in your browser type wiki.ubuntu.com/SaraTestPage
[03:52] <sara_> ok let me try
[03:52] <troy_s> when you create documents for your team, you will probably want to start with a template
[03:52] <bimberi> nixternal: we all get that ;)
[03:52] <nixternal> haha
[03:52] <nixternal> arg.. troy_s is in here too
[03:53] <troy_s> sara_, when you have typed that link in, at the top you have 'create new empty page'
[03:53] <bimberi> i reckon the longer an email is, the less chance of response
[03:53] <troy_s> sara_, but i suggest that you click under the template (any wiki page created with Template in it will show up there)
[03:53] <sara_> ok so how do I pick a tempalte now
[03:53] <nixternal> [20:49]  <troy_s> indeed... it is a _little_ different, but the generalities of launchpad can benefit almost every team.
[03:53] <nixternal> [20:49]  <nixternal> Project == Marketing Team, and then the Programs == SpreadUbuntu, Magazine, Press Team....and so on
[03:53] <nixternal> well..i meant one line..but you got 2 ;)
[03:53] <troy_s> sara_, and when you click one of those templates, you will get the code outline -- you just fill in the blanks.
[03:53] <troy_s> yah i got that thanks nixternal
[03:54] <nixternal> they didn't though ;)
[03:55] <troy_s> nixternal,  who is they?
[03:55] <troy_s> oh the rest of the folks in here...
[03:55] <nixternal> bimberi and sara_ i guess ;(
[03:55] <nixternal> ;)
[03:55] <troy_s> now i comprehend.
[03:55] <nixternal> hehe
[03:55] <nixternal> ya troy_s, you and i aren't the only ones in here ;)
[03:55] <sara_> ok I got it thanks, I swear I must be a retard I had just spent like an hour trying to do this
[03:55] <sara_> I'm sorry, but did I miss something
[03:56] <sara_> Was I supposed to get something?
[03:57] <bimberi> sara_: i'm strugging too :/
[03:57] <bimberi> *struggling    even
[03:57] <nixternal> what are you struggling with?
[03:57] <sara_> :)
[03:57] <troy_s> sara_, bimberi, are you folks ok now?
[03:57] <sara_> Yeah I am good now, thanks for the help
[03:57] <troy_s> There are a LOT of wiki tricks, and unfortunately no great massive howto on how to do them
[03:57] <troy_s> certain 'keywords' work into full text automatically... like the [[SubPages] ]  etc.
[03:57] <bimberi> aahhh, Projects and Programs - yes, with it now :)
[03:58] <troy_s> Wiki's are very very easy to create, and look good without too much effort.
[03:58] <troy_s> Headings for example, automagically appear in the ToC, etc.
[03:59] <bimberi> nixternal: that looks good, and then specs are linked to programs ?
[04:00] <nixternal> you got it
[04:00] <nixternal> Marketing would be the project, and our little tasks could be programs
[04:01] <nixternal> SU, Mag, PR, and whatever the future holds would be programs
[04:01] <nixternal> then we could create specs to the project in order to create a new program, or create a spec to add to a program
[04:02] <sara_> wait, It sound interesting, but I am not clear waht you rea talking about
[04:02] <bimberi> *nods*
[04:02] <troy_s> feel free to ping me if you have more questions... i will reply at some point :)
[04:03] <nixternal> thx troy_s
[04:03] <nixternal> sara_: we create a project "Ubuntu Marketing" or just "Marketing"
[04:03] <sara_> Ubuntu Marketing
[04:03] <bimberi> troy_s: thanks,  and thanks for coming to the meeting (as i said in the minutes email too)
[04:04] <nixternal> a project is a collaboration of programs
[04:04] <bimberi> yes, definitely Ubuntu Marketing.  Launchpad is a global thing
[04:04] <nixternal> true
[04:04] <nixternal> for us though, we won't be dealing with programs...our programs are actually projects...but in the case of the launchpad, they are referred to programs because of the dev portions i guess
[04:05] <nixternal> anyways...SpreadUbuntu, Magazine, and Press Team would be considered "Programs" on the launchpad
[04:05] <nixternal> all those "Programs" would fall under one project which would be "Ubuntu Marketing"
[04:05] <sara_> so where would I put the specs for the Ubuntu magazine
[04:05] <sara_> ?
[04:05] <nixternal> you would apply those to the "Ubuntu Magazine" Program
[04:06] <Burgundavia> sara_: specs can be against ubuntu generally
[04:06] <bimberi> yes i noticed that with some of the artwork specs
[04:06] <nixternal> is that ok to do Burgundavia?   i brought this up, so there wouldn't be a million specs in the "Ubuntu" stuff
[04:06] <Burgundavia> ype
[04:06] <Burgundavia> every other spec is just against ubuntu
[04:06] <nixternal> see..artwork specs go towards an actual package
[04:07] <sara_> So where is the Ubuntru Magazine program in Launchapd
[04:07] <sara_> ?
[04:07] <nixternal> it isn't there
[04:07] <nixternal> i was just saying we could look at doing it
[04:07] <nixternal> only a proposal, or me just thinking out loud
[04:07] <sara_> ok, I think that we probably want to do it
[04:07] <nixternal> well, Burgundavia suggests that we just do it agains "Ubuntu"
[04:08] <nixternal> and then subscribe the MarketingTeam to them
[04:08] <bimberi> nixternal: yes, but only do _that_ with consultation (ie. to the list)
[04:09] <nixternal> i guess i will have to from now on ;)
[04:09] <Burgundavia> nixternal: your emails have not been ignored, just people have not responded to them
[04:09] <nixternal> i know Burgundavia..i was pokin' some fun
[04:09] <bimberi> i think Jan felt that if we create a spec that it would be immediately against the marketin team
[04:09] <bimberi> +g
[04:09] <sara_> I though the same thing
[04:09] <nixternal> it will be agains "ubuntu" and the marketing team will just subscribe to it
[04:10] <sara_> My main concer is that I am working on some specs right now, but I don't know where to put them. Should I just put them on Ubuntu markeitng?
[04:10] <nixternal> so to create a spec, you would go to https://launchpad.net and select Ubuntu under the distribution, and add a spec that way
[04:10] <nixternal> are you talking the wiki?
[04:11] <nixternal> if you are creating a wiki page for your spec, and it is related to marketing, i would say yes, do /MarketingTeam/Spec
[04:11] <nixternal> but that is just me
[04:11] <sara_> I went to Launchapd and them I went to Marketing team, Specs,New Specification
[04:11] <nixternal> really
[04:12] <nixternal> if i goto the marketing team, and under specs, all i see is the specs subscribed by the team, i don't see where i can do a "new spec" at
[04:12] <sara_> Maybe I should just finish the one I am working on an if I make a mistake you sould point me on the right direction
[04:12] <sara_> New Specification is under assigments
[04:17] <nixternal> ah well..im gonna go talk to myself for a bit ;)
[04:17] <nixternal> i shall return
 so where would I put the specs for the Ubuntu magazine
[04:21] <troy_s> specs will list under whoever you subscribe to them
[04:21] <troy_s> meaning the marketing team should probably be subscribed to all the specs.
[04:22] <troy_s> start with simple... worry about complex as you need.
[04:22] <troy_s> :)
 if i goto the marketing team, and under specs, all i see is the specs subscribed by the team, i don't see where i can do a "new spec" at
[04:22] <troy_s> You must go to the default ubuntu specs (where ALL specs are listed)
[04:23] <troy_s> and add a spec from there: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
[04:23] <troy_s> hope that helps folks.
[04:47] <sara_> hey all I just posted some thing on the specs, if any of you have time please let me know what you think
[04:47] <adamant1988> hey all.
[05:51] <nixternal> whee
[05:51] <adamant1988> wheeeeeeeeeeeeee
[05:52] <nixternal> oh no
[05:52] <nixternal> haha
[05:55] <adamant1988> lol
[05:55] <adamant1988> I'm downloading the kororaa live cd thing
[05:55] <adamant1988> what was talked about for the rest of the meeting?
[05:56] <nixternal> i can't remember
[05:56] <nixternal> im brain dead
[05:56] <adamant1988> always cool.
[05:57] <nixternal> you ever feel like stuff you try to do is impossible to get done?
[05:58] <nixternal> i feel like that right now...maybe sleep would fix it ;)
[05:58] <adamant1988> I get discouraged by a lack of progress
[05:59] <adamant1988> but as long as the energy is kept high progress will continue.
[05:59] <nixternal> +1
[05:59] <adamant1988> My problem right now is that A) Spread Ubuntu and the Ubuntu magazine are the first priorities of the team
[05:59] <adamant1988> Meaning any ideas I have take back burner to the teams project.
[06:00] <adamant1988> ...
[06:00] <adamant1988> got booted?
[06:01] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: do what you want
[06:01] <Burgundavia> if you don't, you will get bored/tired and leave
[06:02] <adamant1988> i'll brb
[06:07] <adamant1988> back
[06:07] <adamant1988> nixternal__ having connection problems?
[06:08] <nixternal__> i hate irc
[06:08] <nixternal__> im going back to aol
[06:08] <adamant1988> lol, how will you communicate with us then?
[06:08] <nixternal> stoooopid server
[06:08] <adamant1988> it loves you too
[06:09] <adamant1988> nixternal what do you think SpreadUbuntus chance of success is?
[06:11] <nixternal> the chance is actually excellent as long as it is manned constantly
[06:11] <troy_s> is there a wiki spec up for spreadubuntu yet?  or a link?  or something?
[06:11] <nixternal> it can be active today, and not active tomorrow
[06:13] <adamant1988> I personally think using an advertising method for a browser to advertise an OS is a bit odd.
[06:15] <troy_s> what exactly is spread ubuntu?
[06:19] <Burgundavia> that is part of the problem
[06:19] <Burgundavia> there is no defined idea
[06:19] <Madpilot> AH! the Ubuntu Marketing ML is starting to break out in marketing pseudo-babble: "How can we synergise our work with other community work."
[06:20] <adamant1988> the ML is so difficult to keep track of lol
[06:21] <troy_s> Laf.
[06:22] <troy_s> Found the topic... At least a paper trail.
[06:22] <nixternal> im lost in konvo tabs
[06:23] <nixternal> Burgundavia and wiki moves yet?   i need something else to focus on right now ;)
[06:23] <nixternal> s/and/any
[06:24] <Burgundavia> just moved some
[06:24] <Burgundavia> sorry
[06:24] <nixternal> haha k
[06:25] <nixternal> i swear, that list gets close to 300, and then i take a couple of days away for other projects and boom..right back up there
[06:25] <nixternal> hmm...this is the marketing channel..sorry guys ;)
[06:31] <adamant1988> Has the SpreadUbuntu project REALLY been around since warty?
 is there a wiki spec up for spreadubuntu yet?  or a link?  or something?
[06:31] <bimberi> there's this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu
[06:34] <troy_s> yes i saw that in the topic after muddling around.  thank you.
[06:41] <bimberi> np :)
[06:53] <Cody> hey
[06:53] <Cody> any recent activity on spread ubuntu
[06:53] <Cody> ?
[06:55] <ormiret> Currently gathering design proposals
[06:55] <ormiret> there should be a list of tasks apearring real soon now
[07:00] <Cody> good
[07:03] <Cody> with ubuntu working so well, i kind of need something to do
[07:04] <ormiret> :)
[07:05] <Cody> its amazing that about two years ago ubuntu was first released. And look at where they are now!
[07:08] <ormiret> yeah, things move fast if you get a bunch of people pulling in the same direction.
[07:09] <Cody> too true
[07:16] <Cody> hey
[07:18] <Burgundavia> nixternal: the person you need to ask for a list is jdub
[07:18] <nixternal> for?
[07:18] <nixternal> list?
[07:19] <nixternal> is jdub == waugh?
[07:20] <Burgundavia> yep
[07:20] <nixternal> i have..multiple times...mdke already knows of the issue, and said he would poke him about it
[07:23] <Burgundavia> nixternal: he travels extensively for canonical, so he is not often available
[07:23] <nixternal> i know that, that is why i don't stress the issue any more
[07:24] <nixternal> although, i do feel like emailing him and tell him to change his hackergotchi...everytime i get his blog post from akregator i get a good chuckle for it
[07:24] <nixternal> s/for/from
[08:05] <jbrouhard> Whoa..  We do this through leveraging best-of-breed customer-centric turnkey e-technologies to enable a paradigm shifting synergy between systems and ensure that our customers are provided with a state-of-the-art cutting-edge value-added information experience.
[08:15] <kgoetz> o_0
[08:15] <bimberi> :P
[08:16] <Madpilot> boiled down, that blob of gibberish bimberi just pooped at us really means, "We build good servers for our customers."... I think
[08:16] <kgoetz> can someone explain hte SU graphical things? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu#head-7ce3d403bd8929ad030974de84db90f022cde3db what are we supposed to do with it?
[08:17] <Burgundavia> kgoetz: admire the brilliance?
[08:17] <adamant1988> stare at it
[08:17] <adamant1988> it'll come to completion quicker
[08:18] <adamant1988> well it's SUPPOSEd to advertise an operating system the exact same way that a web browser was advertised
[08:18] <bimberi> Madpilot: i actually made it up one day, there was a website where you could post some marketing speak and it rated the gobbledigookiness of it
[08:19] <jbrouhard> haven't made any real decisions yet
[08:19] <adamant1988> the whole SU project confuses me
[08:19] <kgoetz> adamant1988: :| i'd probably have more idea of what was going on if i could use the bzr repo, but running off a live cd it isnt really going to happen
[08:19] <adamant1988> what is the bzr repo?
[08:20] <Madpilot> adamant1988, supposedly, it's the place things are actually supposed to happen - or something like that... </not very helpful>
[08:20] <adamant1988> so basically.. nothing's going on
[08:21] <adamant1988> does anyone else think it's slightly odd to try to use the same methods to advertise Ubuntu that were used for FireFox?
[08:21] <Burgundavia> SU currently fails to have a well decribed purpose
[08:22] <adamant1988> I mean, yeah joe-schmoe probably uses firefox because of SF, but it's a little different when you're telling them to wipe their hard drive and put Ubuntu on it
[08:22] <jenda> kgoetz: the graphical things are there to help decide what the site will look like when it's up.
[08:23] <jenda> They're there ATM for inspiration for other people who want to give ideas.
[08:24] <jenda> The bzr branch is mainly there to test it for future purposes of Spreadubuntu and the marketing team.
[08:24] <kgoetz> oh, i could play with that stuff,...if i wasnt running live
[08:24] <jbrouhard> jenda i got a question
[08:24] <ormiret> SU isn't just a copy of spreadfirefox with an s/firefox/ubuntu/g It is about formalising efforts that are already underway where users are trying to do marketing for ubuntu
[08:24] <jbrouhard> what font is used for the ubuntu logo ?
[08:25] <kgoetz> hte ubuntu logo font
[08:25] <Madpilot> jbrouhard, Ubuntu-title - it's on wiki.ubuntu.com somewhere
[08:25] <jenda> jbrouhard: wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing , scroll down
[08:25] <jbrouhard> Thanks
[08:25] <Madpilot> actually, it's in repos as well - search for ubuntu-ttf, I think
[08:25] <kgoetz> yay, +1
[08:29] <bimberi> ttf-ubuntu-title is the package btw
[08:38] <MenZa> su`?
[08:39] <kgoetz> spread ubuntu
[08:50] <jenda> I just got a mockup from kassetra.
[08:50] <jenda> Not bad
[08:50] <jbrouhard> :)
[08:51] <jbrouhard> <-- still playing with graphics
[08:51] <jbrouhard> Trying to make this look the way i *WANT* it to ;)
[08:51] <jbrouhard> It's apparently enjoying being a PITA
[08:51] <adamant1988> ewww pepsi and french onion dip
[08:52] <Madpilot> ewww Pepsi ;)
[08:52] <hybrid> ewww Madpilot
[08:52] <jenda> ewww offtopic
[08:52] <Madpilot> heh
[08:52] <hybrid> jenda: mine was better :)
[08:52] <jenda> ;)
[08:53] <jbrouhard> goes a-hunting for ubuntu logo :)
[08:53] <jenda> jbrouhard: trademark policy page ;)
[08:53] <jenda> Can anyone host a png for me?
[08:53] <jbrouhard> :)
[08:53] <jbrouhard> I could
[08:53] <jbrouhard> if my server doesn't decide to puke
[08:53] <jenda> (I really hate putting it on the wiki as an attachment)
[08:53] <Madpilot> jenda, the wiki could :)
[08:53] <hybrid> jenda: imageshack.us
[08:54] <jenda> imageshack... trustworthy?
[08:54] <hybrid> never had an issue with it
[08:54] <jenda> OK
[08:56] <jenda> done.
[08:56] <jenda> now bzr ;)
[08:57] <Madpilot> jenda, share the png now it's on imageshack?
[08:57] <jenda> http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spreadubuntu1rc.png
[08:57] <jenda> It's on the wiki too.
[08:58] <Madpilot> hmm... what would happen to that design on narrower/smaller screens?
[08:59] <jenda> No ID
[08:59] <jenda> I'll have the sources soon
[09:14] <jbrouhard> Hmm
[09:15] <jbrouhard> jenda: I hope you don't mind if i literazlly copy and paste your text ? :p
[09:34] <jenda> jbrouhard: I hope ubuntu.com didn't when I did so... ;)
[09:35] <MenZa> jenda: want me to go ahead and give it ago?
[09:35] <jenda> MenZa: yes :)
[09:35] <MenZa> Right, I might just do that then.
[09:36] <MenZa> If I can find time to it, that is.
[09:36] <jenda> I want everyone to go ahead and give it a go, as long as they won't mind if their work doesn't get used in the end. OTOH, I think we'll end up with an amalgam of the proposals, so every input will have it's fruit.
[09:36] <jenda> Nice cloak, kgoetz. I miss it ;)
[09:37] <jbrouhard> Okay
[09:37] <jbrouhard> I think i'm almost ready with this first attempt
[09:37] <MenZa>  jenda I read that as 'analgame'.
[09:37] <kgoetz> :) i like it (esp. now the serial number is gone)
[09:37] <MenZa> ;\
[09:45] <jbrouhard> jenda:  I'm reviewing some of my work before I submit this ok?  I still have a few things I wanna fix tho
[09:45] <jenda> Sure - you can review after submitting as well, of course.
[09:45] <jenda> Or better: submit more ;)
[09:46] <jbrouhard> I plan to submit at least three, if I'm lucky
[09:48] <jbrouhard> Okay.
[09:48] <jbrouhard> how to submit.. E-mail or just give you the link here ?
[09:48] <jenda> link is good enough
[09:48] <jenda> Or you can just add it to the wiki yourself, if you wish
[09:48] <jenda> I'll put it in bzr too
[09:49] <jenda> If there are source files, I'd be glad if you could email me a package ;)
[09:50] <jbrouhard> Right now
[09:50] <jbrouhard> I'm just using Adobe Photoshop
[09:51] <jbrouhard> Okay.. here's my first try'
[09:51] <jbrouhard> http://www.jbrouhard.com/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu1.jpg
[09:57] <jbrouhard> Any feed back from anyone on that ?
[09:59] <jenda> j'sec ;)
[09:59] <jbrouhard> k
[09:59] <jenda> I like it :
[09:59] <jenda> :)
[09:59] <jenda> a lot.
[10:00] <jenda> the circle of friends is a little too far to the right, IMO...
[10:01] <jbrouhard> That's an easy fix ;)
[10:01] <jenda> ... and the grey bar is unnecessary IMO... while the entire top bar could be substituted with the one on all the other ubuntu pages ;)
[10:01] <jenda> matthewrevell! nick spamming...
[10:01] <jenda> ;)
[10:02] <jenda> and hello :)
[10:02] <matthewrevell> Sorry, forgot I was signed in here. It was a joke in another channel :)
[10:02] <matthewrevell> How did the meeting go?
[10:04] <jenda> I came late, but it went rather well, I think.
[10:04] <matthewrevell> Cool.
[10:04] <matthewrevell> I'll read the logs
[10:05] <jbrouhard> hrm
[10:05] <jbrouhard> Wild idea
[10:05] <jbrouhard> just for shits, I'm thinking of replicating one of the banners from the ubuntu.com pages.
[10:08] <jenda> hello imbrandon
[10:08] <jenda> and ompaul ;)
[10:08] <ompaul> and me?
[10:08] <ompaul> I do not warrent a greeting of my own?  ;-)
[10:08] <ompaul> hi jenda
[10:08] <imbrandon> heya jenda
[10:08] <imbrandon> lol ompaul
[10:09] <ompaul> haha
[10:09] <imbrandon> sudo apt-get install ompaul-greeting-custom-0ubuntu1
[10:11] <ompaul> ahh thanks
[10:11] <jenda> kintaro?
[10:11] <jenda> Well if it ain't... ;)
[10:56] <kintaro> hi jenda.whats up?
[10:58] <kintaro> yes..what is it jenda?sory for late replay... ;)
[04:20] <adamant1988> hello all
[04:23] <bigtoe> good <insert time of day> adamant
[04:24] <adamant1988> yay
[04:24] <adamant1988> I'm ticked.
[04:24] <bigtoe> 'bout what?
[04:25] <adamant1988> I had this wonderful idea for a user interface that could really push Ubuntu to being different.
[04:25] <adamant1988> and it's ALREADY BEEN DONE. almost exactly like I dreamed up
[04:25] <bigtoe> that's too bad
[04:25] <adamant1988> i'll say
[04:25] <kgoetz> :|
[04:26] <adamant1988> symphony os  =\
[04:29] <bigtoe> hmm
[04:29] <bigtoe> i have never heard of the mezzo desktop
[04:30] <adamant1988> it's clean, elegant, and widget based.
[04:30] <bigtoe> yeah, it looks good
[04:32] <adamant1988> basically it eliminates bars and menus
[04:33] <bigtoe> corner targets are a good idea
[04:33] <adamant1988> Yeah I thought of that as a way to eleminate bars
[04:34] <adamant1988> and then I saw a screenshot of symphony last night and I'm liek "son of a..."
[04:34] <bigtoe> i would have a question about the functionality with dual monitors though
[04:34] <bigtoe> corner targets would not be as useful with two monitors
[04:35] <_sara> or a widescreen
[04:35] <adamant1988> i'm not sure how it handles dual monitors
[04:35] <adamant1988> but I imagine wide screen is the same as default
[04:36] <_sara> yeah but corners are not so attractive targets
[04:37] <kgoetz> why is that setup so much better? (looking at this screenshot http://www.symphonyos.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=30 )
[04:38] <adamant1988> did I say better? no I said unique, simple, clean, and elegant.... I don't think it offers anymore functionality than with the one we use now... it just looks cooler
[04:38] <kgoetz> oh ok
[04:40] <adamant1988> haha, I just want to see ubuntu be unique
[04:40] <adamant1988> and it was a good idea until I found out it had been done... so I'm back to the drawing board
[04:41] <_sara> I don;t think that it depends so mush in ubuntu as mush as gnome or kde or whatever you use
[04:41] <adamant1988> yeah, I just don't expect gnome or kde to really ever do anything different.
[04:42] <bigtoe> i don't think that you would want to change the ui too much if you want to get ubuntu to the masses...you will want them to see something that they are familiar with.
[04:42] <adamant1988> are they familiar with mac os X?
[04:42] <kgoetz> adamant1988: afaik gnome used to operate like E does now - so it does change
[04:43] <bigtoe> it does look *similar* to windows
[04:43] <kgoetz> is osx experiance relevent o_0
[04:43] <bigtoe> it may not act the same, but the look is there
[04:44] <kgoetz> 2 panels not one - dont make it 'os x; like
[04:44] <adamant1988> no it was an example
[04:44] <adamant1988> OS X isn't too much like windows, but people want it, and if not for the price more people would be using it.
[04:45] <adamant1988> IMO when people switch desktops they don't want the exact same experience as they were having, they want something newer and more 'fresh'. (like say, Max OS X).
[04:46] <bigtoe> like this? http://manzi.weblogs.us/archives/mydesk.jpg
[04:46] <bigtoe> :)
[04:46] <adamant1988> yeah, like vista
[04:47] <adamant1988> vista is a good example, it provides a newer look and all sorts of fun features to help give users a 'new experience'.
[04:47] <adamant1988> while maintaining compatibility with the old one
[04:47] <_sara> but it looks a bit too crowded
[04:47] <adamant1988> that's because that person has no concept of deskspace and added a whole bunch of crap
[04:48] <_sara> well most screenshot I seen look crowded with their widget bar on the side
[04:48] <bigtoe> unfortunately, I agree. I think that vista is going to do well
[04:49] <adamant1988> vista will do reasonably well i think
[04:49] <_sara> I don;t lie that widget bar on the side that I've seen in other screnshots it looks big
[04:49] <adamant1988> a lot of people are going to be hesitant to upgrade.
[04:50] <adamant1988> I don't want to have to put another gig of ram in my machine just to make vista run well.
[04:50] <bigtoe> that is a good point
[04:50] <_sara> I have the beta and it uses a gig just standing still
[04:51] <adamant1988> I didn't bother with the beta...
[04:51] <bigtoe> is that the memory manager grabbing a bunch of ram and dishing it out as needed?
[04:51] <adamant1988> I figure I might end up getting it preloaded on a computer and play with it then.
[04:51] <adamant1988> regardless I'm downloading the symphonyos live cd
[04:52] <_sara> I don't think so because when I open another program M ram goes up
[04:52] <adamant1988> right now I'm going to burn kororaa
[04:52] <bigtoe> hmm...that's not so good
[04:53] <bigtoe> i have been trying to press the issue here at work that we don't need windows
[04:53] <_sara> I know, specailly since I use windows for my arch 3d work and they usually use alot of ram so for 3d so I think vista is not so attractive for 3d or visualization
[04:53] <bigtoe> before we have to upgrade to vista
[04:55] <_sara> I hav eus linux for about two yeara sna d it is amazing how far and fast its moving, soon I think it would be serius competiton
[04:55] <_sara> probably around the time vistas come out
[04:55] <adamant1988> you mean suse?
[04:56] <_sara> I meant use, and I mean suse and Ubuntu
[04:57] <adamant1988> Suse is doing a good job with the UI
[04:57] <adamant1988> although they're much more windows like than I would like personally
[04:57] <_sara> They shoudl both be ready for an average user desktop, I am also looking foward to the next kde and gnome
[04:58] <adamant1988> what is supposed to happen with the next gnome?
[04:59] <_sara> I don't think much, but I saw some scrreshot of different things. I can't find the links, but KDE 4 sound interesting, different
[04:59] <adamant1988> supposed to be
[04:59] <adamant1988> but it maintains a look like windows appeal so I doubt it will be THAT different
[05:00] <_sara> Also, some of the work that is going on with fluendo and gstreamer sounds interesting
[05:00] <adamant1988> what's that?
[05:00] <adamant1988> I mean the work
[05:02] <_sara> Elisa, to handle your tv and picture, Instabul, screen recording session. I am looking for the link to more stuff
[05:02] <adamant1988> ok I'm popping in kororaa brb
[05:14] <adamant1988> further proof that XGL and this computer do not get along
[06:04] <nixternal> bah
[06:05] <adamant1988> boom chaka laka
[06:07] <nixternal> hm...that smphonyos look purty
[06:07] <nixternal> fvwm has come a long way..i tried it back during the blackbox days
[06:08] <adamant1988> that's not completely fvvm
[06:08] <adamant1988> it's something called mezzo desktop
[06:13] <nixternal> mezzo is nothing more then the widgets, wallpaper and such
[06:14] <nixternal> you can do everything you see with fvwm...but fvwm has been known to be disfunctional at times
[06:16] <adamant1988> meh...
[06:17] <adamant1988> but the widgets are part of the experience
[06:17] <adamant1988> they're the menus and everything for the system
[06:18] <nixternal> i like functional, not pretty
[06:19] <nixternal> thats why i love my kde desktop
[06:19] <adamant1988> I like pretty AND functional
[06:19] <nixternal> it is way functional, with a hint of hawtness to it ;)
[06:32] <bigtoe> nixternal, what does your loco focus on?
[06:32] <nixternal> everything
[06:32] <nixternal> spreading ubuntu in a sense
[06:33] <bigtoe> we will not be able to focus on everything...so far there are only 3 active members and 4 lurkers
[06:33] <nixternal> i have 10 active and a million lurkers
[06:34] <nixternal> so it is a building process...we are going to do a "Chicago Fest/Days" things that I hope will attract a lot of people
[06:34] <nixternal> just a day in the city having fun, and marketing!!!
[06:35] <adamant1988> yay marketing
[06:35] <adamant1988> am I one of the three active members?
[06:35] <bigtoe> we have a non-profit here that refurbs old hardware and loads debian...i am going to try to talk them into ubuntu
[06:36] <bigtoe> adamant...3 members in my loco
[06:36] <adamant1988> oh ok
[07:39] <adamant1988> gee no wonder I can't add specs to the launchpad
[07:39] <adamant1988> I don't have the option to.
[07:45] <bigtoe> i do not have an option for add either
[07:47] <adamant1988> I spent an entire day feeling like an idiot because i couldn't figure out how to add the specs I'm supposed to be able to ad
[07:47] <adamant1988> add
[07:47] <adamant1988> and I don't even have the option.
[07:47] <adamant1988> +1 for that idea. =\
[08:16] <bigtoe> adamant: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[08:23] <adamant1988> oh I know how to add them to ubuntus page
[08:23] <adamant1988> but not the marketing team one
[08:23] <adamant1988> I apparently am not allowed to
[08:44] <nixternal> you add it to ubuntu, and subscribe the marketing
[08:44] <nixternal> team
[08:56] <adamant1988> ah, ok
[09:25] <nixternal> we may not like them, but i have to admit, they have information we could possibly use in the future..so w/o further ado...i present to you
[09:25] <nixternal> https://partner.microsoft.com/global/salesmarketing/
[09:25] <nixternal> world wide style ^^
[09:26] <nixternal> https://partner.microsoft.com/US/salesmarketing/
[09:26] <nixternal> state side (done in the "west siiiiiiiieeeede voice"
[09:26] <nixternal> http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&q=marketing
[09:27] <nixternal> and that would be links to everything marketing for them..maybe we can use their stuff against them ;)
[09:35] <bigtoe> rapid exonomic justification framework...
[09:35] <bigtoe> economic even
[09:36] <nixternal> hehe
[09:37] <bigtoe> Find: Windows Replace with: ubuntu
[09:38] <nixternal> gahahah
[09:38] <nixternal> cheatin' big time
[09:38] <bigtoe> and i am sure that microsoft never "borrowed" code from anyone
[09:38] <Klaidas> :D
[09:39] <nixternal> hahah bigtoe
[09:39] <nixternal> that is getting quoted somehow, someway
[09:41] <adamant1988> =\
[09:41] <adamant1988> are we only good for borrowind concepts?
[09:41] <adamant1988> borrowing*
[09:42] <bigtoe> that was a joke adamant
[09:42] <adamant1988> actually, I'm referring to using the info from microsoft.
[09:42] <nixternal> show me an original concept and i will give you all the money in the world
[09:43] <nixternal> original concepts were used up in the 60's
[09:43] <adamant1988> does that mean we're still doomed to do things that other people/organizations have done/are doing?
[09:43] <nixternal> no and yes
[09:43] <nixternal> yes and no
[09:44] <nixternal> maybe maybe not
[09:44] <nixternal> if you can do something original, then go for it, otherwise you build off a collaboration of other's ideas ;)
[09:44] <bigtoe> you forgot perhaps perhaps not
[09:44] <nixternal> tis how it usually works
[09:44] <nixternal> thanks bigtoe
[09:44] <adamant1988> I wish the Ubuntu devs saw it that way too.
[09:45] <jenda> nixternal: rofl @ your movie quotes up there ;)
[09:45] <nixternal> Ubuntu dev's are to busy
[09:45] <nixternal> movie quotes?
[09:45] <nixternal> did i miss something
[09:45] <adamant1988> Symphony OS is pretty watered down.
[09:45] <adamant1988> I've got it running on my laptop right now, configuration options past wallpaper =0.
[09:55] <jenda> nixternal: the 'state side' and dr. evil style fit together well ;)
[09:55] <nixternal> hehe
[09:55] <nixternal> why thank you
[10:02] <nixternal> jenda: plans for a http://marketing.ubuntu.com   and if so, what are they?
[10:02] <nixternal> i was thinking, that the world should see a beautifully structured m.u.c and the team use the wiki for work, design, implementation and what not...just 2 cents...a thought i had while sitting on..erm,...in my other office ;)
[10:03] <jenda> Well, I wanted to have a file repo there for in progress works, but it's not happening it seems. Perhaps a browser-accessible repo of files automatically synced with bzr
[10:03] <nixternal> i was thinking more of a "front page" for the marketing "project" and use the wiki for the marketing "team"
[10:03] <jenda> (It's not happening because bzr and wiki were chosen by the rest to serve the purpose)
[10:03] <jenda> OK
[10:03] <nixternal> "thinking" being the main word there ;)
[10:04] <jenda> not sure whatcha mean
[10:04] <nixternal> let me find an example..carry on ;)  i shall find one here in a minute
[10:07] <jbrouhard> Okay jenda
[10:08] <jenda> jbrouhard: wussup? ;)
[10:08] <jbrouhard> second revision ready to go, but did you say yuou didn't need those links such as "home, about, floss,' etc ?
[10:09] <nixternal> where is the 2nd revision jbrouhard?
[10:09] <jbrouhard> Not up yet
[10:09] <nixternal> well hurry already
[10:09] <nixternal> ;)
[10:09] <jbrouhard> I want to make sure those links aren't needed yet ;)
[10:09] <jbrouhard> *looks at nixternal*...
[10:09] <jbrouhard> I'll hurry up to kick your butt ;)
[10:09] <nixternal> listen here honkey chan
[10:09] <adamant1988> grrr.. how can I reset my beagle index so that it will reindex everything?
[10:10] <nixternal> i have no clue, as i had major issues with beagle on my system
[10:10] <nixternal> so i stopped "trying" to use it
[10:10] <nixternal> plus, everything that is important, is already filed away neatly on my system..so it is easy to goto and find
[10:12] <jbrouhard> Hmm
[10:12] <jbrouhard> *notes I need to do some "spring cleaning" of my own file system :)
[10:13] <nixternal> cd /
[10:13] <jbrouhard> right now, it's a cluttered *MESS*
[10:13] <nixternal> rm -rf ~/*
[10:13] <jbrouhard> I knew it
[10:13] <nixternal> best cleaning you can do
[10:13] <jbrouhard> Nixternal dies :)
[10:13] <nixternal> whats new
[10:13] <jbrouhard> :)
[10:13] <nixternal> im always dieing
[10:13] <jbrouhard> lol
[10:15] <jbrouhard> could be worse, man
[10:23] <nixternal> fedora and ubuntu text are pretty close to being the same
[10:23] <nixternal> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing
[10:24] <nixternal> i like their colors, and their logos...that page is pretty clean and to the point
[10:25] <nixternal> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
[10:25] <nixternal> interesting
[10:26] <nixternal> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Awards   <- stuff like that keeps moral high
[10:28] <jbrouhard> jenda: are the links for "home, about, community, FLOSS" absolutely necessary, or can the designs go without them ?
[10:29] <jenda> jbrouhard: I prefer without, in fact
[10:31] <jbrouhard> Okeydoke
[10:31] <jbrouhard> Second version about to hit the web
[10:33] <jenda> jbrouhard: where's the first?
[10:33] <jbrouhard> Wow.. this is sweet
[10:33] <jbrouhard> http://www.jbrouhard.com/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu2.jpg
[10:33] <jbrouhard> first is http://www.jbrouhard.com/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu1.jpg
[10:33] <nixternal> oh ya..i like the 2nd one
[10:33] <MenZa> I hate both.
[10:33] <MenZa> Soryr.
[10:33] <jenda> very slick :)
[10:33] <nixternal> the first was to solid..i like the title bar up top..the drop shadow and hwat not
[10:33] <MenZa> Sorry.
[10:33] <jbrouhard> lol
[10:34] <nixternal> let us see MenZa?
[10:34] <MenZa> jenda: any special requests.
[10:34] <MenZa> nixternal: I'm only starting now.
[10:34] <nixternal> ahh
[10:34] <jenda> jbrouhard: I'd make the bar thinner... and if we have a bar, why not the original ubuntu bar?
[10:34] <nixternal> ok
[10:34] <jbrouhard> you mena the top banner ?
[10:34] <Cody> I think they need curved edges
[10:34] <nixternal> im all for original
[10:35] <jenda> jbrouhard: what's your name? I'm putting them on the wiki
[10:35] <nixternal> http://www.ubuntu.com/spreadubuntu
[10:35] <nixternal> don't click it
[10:35] <jbrouhard> My full name ?
[10:35] <jbrouhard> or Wiki one ?
[10:36] <jenda> wiki good enough
[10:36] <jbrouhard> JoeBrouhard
[10:36] <jenda> MenZa: Yes - one request...
[10:36] <nixternal> it isn't there..but im saying..i think it should all blend...i believe that "spreadubuntu" and/or "marketing" need to be incorporated/blended into the main page/setup
[10:36] <MenZa> jenda: aha?
[10:36] <jbrouhard> pretty much the same as my real name anyway
[10:36] <jenda> MenZa: make it R - O - K !!!
[10:36] <nixternal> haha
[10:37] <MenZa> Right
[10:37] <MenZa> I suggest we use Tango icons.
[10:37] <jenda> Feel free to try.
[10:37] <jenda> We can decide once we see ;)
[10:38] <jenda> MenZa: you know I want: graphical, simple to understand withing a few seconds of staring-at, artistic, fresh, new. If it's weird, it's good :-D
[10:38] <MenZa> jenda: I'll try.
[10:38] <jenda> :)
[10:40] <MenZa> Does the average Linux user have "Century Gothic"? The font?
[10:40] <jenda> If it's default in ubuntu, it's OK
[10:41] <jbrouhard> Actually, if the font is embedded in graphics
[10:41] <MenZa> I don't know if it is, jenda.
[10:41] <jbrouhard> it won't matter if the end user has it or not ;)
[10:41] <jenda> jbrouhard: +1
[10:41] <jbrouhard> however if it's used for actual web text, that's an iffy thing
[10:41] <MenZa> jbrouhard: I prefer not to use graphical text, if I can avoid it.
[10:41] <jbrouhard> Mine are grpahical text for illustration purposes :)
[10:41] <jenda> jbrouhard: you think you could email me the source of those two? I want to click them on the black market.
[10:42] <jbrouhard> In graphics, sure.  for actual text ?  Hell if I know.
[10:42] <jenda> Er... the bazaar I mean.
[10:42] <jbrouhard> LOL!
[10:42] <MenZa> jbrouhard: I have a lot.
[10:42] <jbrouhard> they're PSD's, so no problem
[10:42] <MenZa> Right.
[10:42] <MenZa> So
[10:42] <jenda> PSD... ah :)
[10:42] <MenZa> Do WE have a logo?
[10:42] <jenda> Dunn't matter, it should still be there
[10:42] <jenda> MenZa: yes
[10:42] <jenda> the UBUNTU logo ;)
[10:42] <MenZa> jenda: show me.
[10:42] <MenZa> ...that sucks.
[10:42] <jbrouhard> Okay, Where shall i send you the originals ?
[10:42] <jbrouhard> i need to save the 2nd one first
[10:43] <jenda> MenZa: it's all that is needed and useful.
[10:43] <jbrouhard> Please note
[10:43] <MenZa> jenda: we need something unique
[10:43] <jenda> jbrouhard:
[10:43] <jenda> @ubuntu.com
[10:43] <jbrouhard> that both PSDs have "unseen" layers right now.  That's how I tend to work my graphics
[10:43] <jbrouhard> i can clean it up if need be
[10:44] <jenda> MenZa: please... logos are for branding. We have discussed this so many times. Does the art team have a logo? Does ubuntu.cz have logo?
[10:44] <Burgwork> the last likely does
[10:44] <Burgwork> but they have a reason to
[10:44] <jenda> jbrouhard: it's for people who want to expand on your work, so act as you see fit. It's probably not necessary to clean that up.
[10:45] <Burgwork> MenZa, does the marketing dept of MS or IBM have a seperate logo from the corporate one?
[10:45] <jenda> Burgwork: http://ubuntu.cz/ I see none ;)
[10:45] <MenZa> Burgwork: are we the official marketing team then :P?
[10:45] <Burgwork> yes
[10:45] <Burgwork> ubuntu canada and ubuntu aussie have one
[10:46] <MenZa> My apologies.
[10:46] <jbrouhard> Ok
[10:46] <Burgwork> but then again, IBM Canada is slightly different than IBM world
[10:46] <jbrouhard> Jenda: sending email.  Dunno if gmail wants to play nice w/ me today.
[10:46] <jenda> Well, we (.cz) have a logo, but it's only used on the wiki - to show how proud we are of it... or at least how the author is. (/me isn't on great terms there)
[10:46] <jbrouhard> Ah, yes it sent.  You should have mail soon
[10:46] <jenda> gotcha )
[10:46] <jenda> :)
[10:48] <jbrouhard> That's two designs for ya
[10:48] <jbrouhard> I might give my self a 3rd shot, but I don't know if I have enough tacky tricks up my sleeve to try it
[10:48] <jbrouhard> <-- has two more designs to deal with, totally unrelated to Ubuntu
[10:49] <MenZa> So what is it, See it, Ship it etc.?
[10:49] <jbrouhard> BBL
[10:50] <MenZa> jenda: what's the wordplay
[10:50] <MenZa> See it, Ship it, Get it etc.
[10:50] <MenZa> jenda!
[10:50] <jenda> ya ya ya :)
[10:51] <jenda> See it, Try it, Get it, Shipit, SPREADIT
[10:51] <jenda> what was your question?
[10:51] <nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal/images/misg/new.png
[10:52] <MenZa> Alrright.
[10:52] <nixternal> i love when it doesn't work
[10:52] <nixternal> lol
[10:52] <jenda> nixternal: nothing there
[10:52] <nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal/images/misc/new.png
[10:52] <bigtoe> that is a great not found page nix
[10:52] <nixternal> i don't know whats up with the marketing button..but thats not the way it looks in gimp
[10:53] <nixternal> anyways, you get the idea
[10:53] <nixternal> instead of marketing it could be SpreadUbuntu in the button
[10:54] <nixternal> imho:  SpreadUbuntu & anything Marketing should not look different then http://www.ubuntu.com
[10:55] <bigtoe> agree
[10:56] <nixternal> i think we spend to much time trying out things to be "different"..maybe we could progress a heck of a lot quicker, if we stick with what is there and what works... honest opinion again
[11:00] <jenda> I tihnk Spreadubuntu can look different if we decide for a fresh new thing. But _if_ there's a top bar, it sohuld be Ubuntu.
[11:01] <MenZa> http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4106/spreadubuntu1at.png <- I got bored and started sucking in the end. The base is there though
[11:01] <nixternal> if you keep with the Ubuntu top bar, then everything below should look similar
[11:02] <nixternal> i like the fact that it is clean
[11:02] <nixternal> im for clean and effective..right to the point
[11:02] <nixternal> i hate going to a site and thinking ok, this is where it is...when it isn't...so now i have to go looking for it again
[11:02] <nixternal> maybe im just an e.tard though
[11:02] <nixternal> but im always thinking about the "new guy"
[11:03] <nixternal> which is a flaw, and a good thing all wrapped up into one
[11:03] <ompaul> nixternal, your using a word that marketing considers important - without using its name
[11:03] <ompaul> consistant
[11:03] <ompaul> consistant look and feel
[11:03] <MenZa> ompaul: amen.
[11:03] <nixternal> ya
[11:03] <nixternal> unlike me
[11:03] <ompaul> this is really important if you want people to see what is going on
[11:03] <nixternal> im not consistant in look and feel ;)
[11:04] <MenZa> <- go bed?
[11:04] <nixternal> however, ubuntuforums looks horrible trying to be consistent
[11:04] <MenZa> I love it.
[11:04] <nixternal> i like the old layout much better
[11:05] <nixternal> if they keep the new layout, they need to shrink the "current or latest" message portion, as that makes it look kind of trashy to me
[11:12] <ompaul> people look at stuff first it is data: then they see it as organised data - or information - then it becomes knowledge which is useful patterns, this leads to level one creative thinking - understanding (groking) then wisdom or "systems thinking" this is the top level of where you can get to - we should be careful when we operate in the top level "if and when" with "why", assume that they already be ready to hand them "how and what"
[11:12] <ompaul> http://www.devel.co.uk/article/161/moving-up-the-advocacy-hierachy
[11:12] <ompaul> not my own thinking
[11:13] <ompaul> :-)
[11:19] <bigtoe> wildtangent's example, other than the dapper color scheme is just about right on the money
[11:21] <jenda> I disagree: it has 5 sets of links on it, plus the 'back home' link on the logo.
[11:22] <bigtoe> i mean as far as being consistant with ubuntu.com
[11:22] <jenda> well, it has the top bar if that's what you mean.
[11:22] <jenda> Spreadubuntu needs to be a lot simpler than u.c
[11:28] <bigtoe> so you are thinking more like  jbrouhard's second example?
[11:28] <jenda> That is more to my tastes, yes.
[11:29] <jenda> I'd add a back ground, perhaps.
[11:29] <jenda> Make it lighter... it's a little boxed-in.
[11:30] <bigtoe> i agree it does look a bit boxed, but the white background, imo, is very clean and professional
[11:34] <jenda> it's very nice, I like it.
[11:35] <jenda> Finding things that can be improved is what I do :)
[11:39] <jenda> Wait... no, finding the bed is what I should be doing instead...
[11:39] <jenda> zZz
[11:41] <bigtoe> are you in gmt?
[11:41] <bigtoe> utc
[11:41] <bigtoe> whatever you want to call it
[11:44] <jenda> +2
[11:44] <jenda> Good night
[11:44] <bigtoe> g'night