[10:45] <ia> hello. I have a question about integration app (PyGTK + appindicator module) into AppIndicator applet, so I will be very appreciate for any clues: could anyone tell me, please, how to "append"/"attach" (is it possible itself?) some text right next to some appindicator's icon?
[10:54] <qense> ia: that's not possible, it would be against the design document
[10:55] <ia> qense: ok, thanks for the answer.
[10:55] <qense> you're welcome
[13:47] <dashua> vish, Is the Banshee monochrome icon working for you?
[13:50] <qense> dashua: iirc Banshee has to use AppIndicator in order to use the monochrome icon.
[13:51] <qense> dashua: I've written a patch for that, but it's not accepted yet.
[13:53] <dashua> I'm using it now from git
[13:53] <dashua> It's awesome.
[13:54] <qense> dashua: What do you mean? Is there an AppIndicator in GIT already?
[13:55] <dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/46973/screenshot_1_dg7n5E.png
[13:55] <dashua> Just have to set the flag
[13:55] <dashua> --enable-appindicator
[13:55] <qense> dashua: Since when is that?
[13:56] <dashua> The icon is not monochrome
[13:56] <qense> dashua: I know, I wrote the darn patch. :P But I wasn't told that the patch was included.
[13:56] <dashua> HA
[13:56] <dashua> I guess it is ;)
[13:56] <dashua> Works great.
[13:56] <qense> jcastro!
[13:57] <dashua> The only reason I was still using RB waiting fro the AppIndicator.
[13:58] <qense> dashua: Are you sure you're using the plain git master? I can't find a recent commit of that patch.
[14:00] <dashua> Yeah
[14:00] <qense> I can't find it anywhere in the code as well.
[14:00] <dashua> I can't find it either.
[14:00] <qense> dashua: Where did you get the code from?
[14:00] <qense> git://git.gnome.org/banshee ?
[14:00] <dashua> yeah
[14:01] <dashua> 1.6 RC1
[14:01] <qense> and you didn't apply any patch?
[14:01] <qense> I don't see any RC tag as well.
[14:02] <dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/46974/screenshot_031_iNIKC6.png
[14:02] <dashua> I don't think I applied any patches
[14:03] <qense> If you've got an AppIndicator you must have. I wouldn't know how you could have got the Application Indicator otherwise.
[14:03] <dashua> Not sure, but I love it ::)
[14:03] <qense> :)
[14:04] <dashua> qense, I think I may have tried the 1.5.3 patch, but it did not pass.
[14:05] <dashua> I guess it did.
[14:05] <qense> it must have
[14:05] <qense> dashua: I'll take a quick look at the code to see how the icon name is selected.
[14:05] <dashua> I thought it was in master
[14:05] <qense> It's most certainly not.
[14:06] <dashua> Yeah, I see that.
[14:07] <dashua> Humanity has it as banshee-panel
[14:15] <vish> dashua: the icon is there , banshee needs to use it
[14:17] <qense> vish: The icon name of Banshee is "media-player-banshee".
[14:17] <qense> vish: That means that AppInd doesn't try 'banshee-panel', but 'media-player-banshee-panel', which doesn't exist.
[14:17] <qense> vish: Would you mind renaming the icon?
[14:22] <dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/46977/screenshot_1_Lu44XX.png
[14:22] <dashua> There we go
[14:23] <dashua> media-player-banshee-panel
[14:23] <dashua> That worked
[14:23] <qense> good
[14:23] <dashua> Thx
[14:23] <qense> dashua: I assume the large amount of spacing between your menu items is your theme?
[14:26] <dashua> They all seems to have the same spacing.
[14:26] <dashua> seem*
[14:27] <qense> ok
[14:28] <vish> qense: ok , np.. i'll do it with the next update , since there was no mention on the bug report from the banshee devs ,i just used the same name as other apps
[14:28] <qense> vish: It's a bit strange indeed, something they could have told you about.
[14:28] <qense> maybe they assumed you'd look in the code for the name they use ;)
[14:29] <vish> yeah , i forgot to check the bug before pushing the change :(
[14:29] <dashua> vish, Do you need a bug?
[14:29] <vish> dashua: that would be nice
[14:29] <dashua> vish, Ok np.
[14:38] <tgpraveen12> qense: u are doing the app indicator for banshee right
[14:38] <tgpraveen12> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/46977/screenshot_1_Lu44XX.png according
[14:38] <tgpraveen12> to that is show notification option really needed
[14:38] <tgpraveen12> one would hardly ever change that option.
[14:42] <qense> tgpraveen12: That option was added by the Banshee developers.
[14:42] <qense> tgpraveen12: I'm reusing the same context menu that's used for the regular status icon.
[14:45] <kklimonda> heh, this menu is a perfect just why we should write indicators from scratch :/
[14:46] <tgpraveen12> qense: i would still suggest not having that option. maybe someone else should also comment on this.
[14:46] <tgpraveen12> i dont think there is any reason to resuse the same options as that of the regular status icon
[14:46] <tgpraveen12> app indicators were supposed to be about fixing things. just my 2 cents
[14:47] <kklimonda> tgpraveen12: I agree, there is no reason to enable/disable notifications from indicator
[14:47] <qense> tgpraveen12, kklimonda: In that case I would file a bug against Banshee on GNOME Bugzilla with a request for removing that option from the status icon menu.
[14:47] <qense> Or do you think it is suitable in the regular context menu?
[14:48] <kklimonda> tgpraveen12: heh, that's my point - if we are just reusing old interface and then make it even worse (by removing right click, tooltips etc.) then there is no reason to do that at all - we'll just piss users :/
[14:49] <kklimonda> qense: my opinion is that the only place this setting should be at is preferences menu - and only if we really have to make it a setting. I'm pretty sure that the only reason why is it configurable is that there is no do-not-disturb mode for notifications.
[14:49] <qense> ok
[14:50] <qense> I agree with that, but I didn't want to edit the context menu without prior consent.
[14:51] <qense> kklimonda, tgpraveen12: However, the whole project is frozen now they've already released the first release candidate for 1.6.0.
[14:52] <qense> I'm even sure whether the AppInd patch will be accepted before the release.
[14:55] <tgpraveen12> qense: so its not going to be in lucid?
[14:55] <qense> tgpraveen12: I've attached a patch to the Launchpad bug report that's suitable for applying to the Debian -- we sync Banshee -- package with quilt.
[14:56] <qense> It's up to others whether an exception will be granted for this patch.
[14:58] <kklimonda> qense: do you know what is the future of appindicator? is it going to migrate to GtkAction and then be accepted by GTK+ guys or is it going to live as a Canonical-only "feature"?
[14:59] <qense> kklimonda: Things similar to the whole Notify OSD and Indicators family are demonstrated in the GNOME Shell mock-ups, so I assume at the very least we'll see an implementation of something similar to the AppInd in GNOME.
[16:20] <kitallis> anyone mind looking at this : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-soc/2010-March/000047.html :)
[16:26] <qense> kitallis: I'm afraid you're in the wrong IRC channel for that.
[16:27] <qense> kitallis: I'd try #ubuntu-gsoc
[16:27] <kitallis> qense, try a /whois
[16:27] <qense> ?
[16:28] <kitallis> i've already discussed it over there.
[16:28] <qense> They told you to discuss it here?
[16:28] <kitallis> i was hoping to find someone interested, here.
[16:28] <qense> Ah, in that case I'd advise you to come back on a working day when there are more people.
[16:28] <kitallis> oh. alright.
[16:33] <qense> kitallis: Mirco Müller, MacSlow on IRC, is leading the development of NotifyOSD a bit. You might want to talk to him.
[19:05] <kklimonda> what if upstream developers decide against "fixing" their applications to follow our new Units Policy? Should we patch them and take the beating?


[04:00] <wgrant> StevenK: rvb has two pending items on https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/deployment-db-stable.html -- could you please try to QA those?
[04:03] <wallyworld> wgrant: the work you are doing on product picker - have you made any changes to ProductVocabulary in vocabularies.py?
[04:03] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #364: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/364/
[04:04] <wgrant> wallyworld: Just http://paste.ubuntu.com/619573/
[04:06] <wallyworld> wgrant: thanks. i'm looking at altering the json so that exact matches (or matches above a certain ranking) are returned in a separate attribute so that if there are "too many" we can stil display the exact ones
[04:07] <wallyworld> bug 255282
[04:07] <_mup_> Bug #255282: project name picker search / vocabulary is hard/impossible to use (too many results on exact searches) <disclosure> <lp-registry> <project-picker> <projects> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by wallyworld> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/255282 >
[04:07] <wgrant> wallyworld: Probably better to limit?
[04:07] <wgrant> wallyworld: That's what that diff does.
[04:07] <wgrant> wallyworld: It ranks exact matches first, then by FTI, and limits as well.
[04:08] <wallyworld> wgrant: ah yes, i didn't see the limit
[04:08] <wgrant> Limiting in the current implementation is bad, because it ranks by displayname.
[04:08] <wallyworld> in that case, that bug is moot
[04:08] <wgrant> But ordering by rank makes limiting sensible.
[04:08] <wallyworld> yes agreed
[04:09] <wallyworld> i spent some time cleaning up a fix previously landed which didn't work properly :-(
[04:09] <wgrant> Oh?
[04:10] <wallyworld> there was one recently to deal with the picker handling too many matches but it was all wrong (i didn't do the fix, just cleaned it up :-)
[04:10] <wgrant> Ah, right, I remember that one.
[04:11] <wallyworld> wgrant: so i should assign that bug to you since your change deals with the problem
[04:11] <wgrant> wallyworld: Probably, yeah. I think this two line change solves most of the product picker problems.
[04:11] <wallyworld> ok. you can link a few bugs to your branch :-)
[04:12] <wgrant> Yup.
[04:12] <wgrant> The prettification is a separate, more complicated beast.
[04:13] <wgrant> wallyworld: The link doesn't seem to do anything.
[04:13] <wgrant> The one you just landed.
[04:13] <wgrant> And the spacing is off.
[04:13] <wallyworld> works for me?
[04:14] <wallyworld> your sure your browser is not blocking popups?
[04:14] <wgrant> Which browser?
[04:14] <wallyworld> i use ff4
[04:14] <wgrant> Ew, popups?
[04:14] <wallyworld> well the browser says its a popup but it's a window.open(...) call
[04:15] <wallyworld> and i have mine set up to open in a new tab
[04:15] <wgrant> Hm, then it shouldn't be green.
[04:15] <wgrant> Green means an inline thing.
[04:15] <wallyworld> well, i was told to make it green
[04:15] <wgrant> href is not defined
[04:15] <wgrant> When I try it in Firefox 4.
[04:15] <wallyworld> green meaning "this link doesn't kill the current page"
[04:15] <wallyworld> ?
[04:16] <wallyworld> i'll have another look, but it worked when I tested before ec2'ing
[04:16] <wgrant> Hmm. Where is href defined?
[04:16] <wgrant> I think you might have meant data.alt_title_link
[04:16] <wallyworld> i need a bit more context. let me open the branch
[04:17] <wgrant> window.open(href) is failing, since href is not defined. In the 'if (data.alt_title)' branch.
[04:18] <wgrant> Anyway, it's all behind flags, so it doesn't really matter much right now.
[04:18] <wallyworld> that sucks. yes, it is broken. not sure how i let that happen.
[04:18] <wallyworld> i'll fix
[04:18] <wgrant> Thanks.
[04:18] <wgrant> We should also huwshimi about the link style, I think.
[04:19] <wgrant> It looks a bit odd being in the parenthesised section.
[04:19] <wallyworld> sure. i'll do what i am told :-) i wanted to make it something different but was told the styles are fixed and not easily changed
[04:20] <wgrant> Well, it's easier to change now it's there.
[04:20] <wgrant> The hard bit is doen :)
[04:20] <wallyworld> yep
[04:31] <wgrant> wallyworld: Did you intend to reuse the commit message?
[04:31] <wgrant> I see you did that on lazr-js a few times too.
[04:31] <wgrant> It's rather confusing.
[04:31] <wallyworld> probably should have changed it
[04:32] <wallyworld> didn't think you would be looking so closely at it
[04:33] <wgrant> I read most diffs, so I can keep track of what's going on and hit people when they introduce security holes :)
[04:36] <wallyworld> fair enough :-)
[04:36] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #171: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 10 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/171/
[05:22] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #172: STILL FAILING in 45 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/172/
[07:47] <jtv> Who's up for a pre-imp chat?
[07:52] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #365: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 9 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/365/
[07:59] <jtv> lifeless: got another fun problem that I'd love to discuss with you — creating multiple Jobs in one query.
[07:59] <wgrant> jtv: lifeless isn't here today.
[07:59] <jtv> Ah blast
[07:59] <wgrant> jtv: But that's always fun.
[07:59] <jtv> Yes
[07:59] <wgrant> I think you have to use strings.
[07:59] <wgrant> That's what I do, at least.
[07:59] <wgrant> eg. in PublishingSet.publishBinaries
[08:00] <jtv> You mean, SQL strings?
[08:00] <wgrant> Ja.
[08:00] <jtv> That's not really the problem I'm pondering though.
[08:00] <jtv> I never really assumed that Storm would support what I wanted directly.  The real questions is how to make this work well API-wise.
[08:01] <jtv> It seems easy: extend IJobSource with a createMultiple() that returns an iterable of job ids.
[08:01] <jtv> Then feed those into job-type-specific equivalents of createMultiple().
[08:02] <jtv> The part I dislike is how some IJobSource-derivatives operate on Job, and classes implemented purely in that table; and others like to refer to other tables that in turn refer to Job.
[08:03] <jtv> So IJobSource.createMultiple() would end up in job utilities that are expected to return something else than Job.
[08:03] <lifeless> I would like to delete 'Job'
[08:03] <jtv> You're not here.
[08:03] <jtv> Shoo.
[08:04] <lifeless> its a generally poor pattern for sql to do inheritance like that
[08:04] <lifeless> I pass through
[08:04] <jtv> Not using direct inheritance support in the DB does make things feel very awkward and old-fashioned,
[08:05] <jtv> almost like inheritance in JavaScript.
[08:05] <jtv> Maybe we should've just used db-native table inheritance.  :)
[08:06] <lifeless> well
[08:06] <lifeless>  I would have done code inheritance but not db inheritance
[08:07] <lifeless> for most jobs there isn't anything in common, but we've created a bottleneck as it stands
[08:13] <wgrant> :(
[08:14] <lifeless> by analogy, why don't we have a base *table* with the id column :>
[08:14] <wgrant> Indeed.
[08:14] <wgrant> Also, why does the test suite and staging update take so long :(
[08:15] <wgrant> And why does something conflicting with db-devel have to have just landed :(
[08:15] <jtv> The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.
[08:16] <jtv> lifeless: you're right though — design of our jobs is driven by commonality of contents, not commonality of purpose.
[08:17] <jtv> It'd be nice if we could at least have a pattern along the lines of "put everything in the json metadata, but we can also duplicate data that needs to be searchable in proper columns."
[08:19] <jtv> I think I need to keep multi-job creation out of IJobSource because it isn't even a utility interface; it's an interface definition pur sang.
[08:22] <adeuring> good morning
[08:24] <jtv> hi adeuring
[08:24] <adeuring> hi jtv!
[08:53] <rvba> wgrant: Hi, I'm in the progress of QAing r10636.
[08:54] <wgrant> rvba: And r10641?
[08:55] <rvba> wgrant: yes, that too
[08:55] <wgrant> Thanks.
[08:55] <wgrant> rvba: Have you talked to Stevenk?
[08:55] <StevenK> At length.
[08:55] <rvba> wgrant: Yes I have ...
[08:56] <mrevell> Happy Monday
[08:56] <wgrant> Heh
[08:56] <rvba> Hello mrevell!
[09:11] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #173: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 10 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/173/
[09:30] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #366: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 14 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/366/
[10:04] <jelmer> wgrant: hi
[10:06] <wgrant> jelmer: Hello.
[10:08] <jelmer> wgrant: you mentioned in #bzr you were QA'ing some of the bugs in my newer-bzr branch; are you still working on that and/or is there something I can help with?
[10:09] <wgrant> jelmer: I tried a few things on qastaging, but I'll probably need to do importds on staging tomorrow, since qastaging doesn't have any.
[10:09] <wgrant> (and it's not on staging yet)
[10:10]  * wgrant -> food
[10:10] <jelmer> ah, ok
[10:15] <jelmer> wgrant: if you need any help, you know where to find me :)
[10:27] <wgrant> jelmer: Yup, thanks.
[10:54] <wgrant> rvba: How's it going?
[10:55] <rvba> wgrant: good so far, I've found a bug.
[10:55] <rvba> wgrant: is this blocking you in any way?
[10:56] <wgrant> rvba: This is potentially disastrous.
[10:56] <wgrant> rvba: We need to merge db-stable into devel today.
[10:56] <wgrant> What's the bug?
[10:56] <rvba> wgrant: a simple UI bug.
[10:56] <wgrant> In +initseries?
[10:56] <rvba> yes
[10:56] <wgrant> Ah, OK, fine then.
[10:56] <rvba> Nothing disastrous :)
[10:57] <wgrant> I'd like to do the merge in the next 30 minutes.
[10:57] <wgrant> To catch the next devel run.
[10:57] <wgrant> So it'd be great if you could have the QA done by then.
[10:58] <rvba> Since the changes in question are (like always) derivation related ... I suppose we could mark these bug QAok.
[10:58] <rvba> s/bug/bugs/
[10:58] <wgrant> Well, they also have the potential to break Ubuntu initialisation, but yeah, that's a while off.
[10:58] <wgrant> So if you can't get them done soon, qa-ok it is.
[10:59] <rvba> wgrant: that's right, they have potential to break ubuntu init ... I think StevenK is checking these changes very seriously.
[11:02] <rvba> StevenK: I suppose +initseries won't be used "for real" right now, the only dangerous thing is the initialisation of ubuntu. what is the conclusion of your conversation with Julian this morning about this? Will you check the ubuntu initialisation?
[11:12] <rvba> wgrant: We found another bug in initialisedistroseriesjob ... if you pass packagesets=None the job will fail because of the way parameters are passed inside a metadata attribute.
[11:13] <rvba> It will be very easy to fix but it's a stupid bug.
[11:13] <rvba> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/793434
[11:13] <_mup_> Bug #793434: Passing packagesets=None triggers an error when initializing a series. <derivation> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by rvb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/793434 >
[11:15] <rvba> wgrant: I suppose I should wait for you to merge db-stable into devel and then fix this in devel ...?
[11:18] <wgrant> rvba: Probably, yes. We'll merge shortly, then be frozen until QA'd past the merge.
[11:18] <wgrant> Which will be tomorrow some time.
[11:19] <rvba> Ok, I'll get the fix ready then.
[11:20] <wgrant> Thanks.
[11:31] <wgrant> rvba: So, can we qa-ok them?
[11:31] <rvba> wgrant: I *just* did.
[11:31] <rvba> Right in time I suppose ;)
[11:31] <wgrant> Heh.
[11:31] <wgrant> Thanks.
[12:25] <bigjools> I wish make schema would do just exactly that, not a million other things
[12:25] <stub> bigjools: I use 'make -C database/schema'
[12:27] <bigjools> stub: do you know why the top-level Makefile's schema target depends on build then?
[12:27]  * henninge lunches
[12:28] <stub> bigjools: Don't know. Technically that is correct I guess, since we need /bin/py built and stuff, so the problem is that 'make build' is too busy
[12:28] <maxb> Also that 'make build && make schema' re-does bits of the build
[12:30] <bigjools> ah, that Makefile uses bin/py ... :/
[12:30] <stub> probably something to do with wadl depending on *.py... perhaps that should only rebuild if explicitly asked or if it is non-existent
[12:30] <bigjools> jeebus, the test failure attachments are huge now
[12:31] <stub> Yer... all those librarian logs...
[12:31] <bigjools> and SQL now it seems
[12:31] <stub> that I suspect are not reset between tests...
[12:32] <wgrant> Hmm.
[12:32] <wgrant> schema doesn't need build.
[12:32] <wgrant> Just compile.
[12:32] <wgrant> Which is much smaller, and runs OK with -j3.
[12:34] <bigjools> that was slower than -j2 last time I checked
[12:34] <wgrant> ... bah.
[12:35] <stub> What does 'orphaned' mean on the qa'd patch deployment report
[12:35] <stub> ?
[12:36] <wgrant> stub: You used [testfix] when you shouldn't have.
[12:36] <wgrant> I decided it was safe to deploy, since it passed buildbot and seems harmless.
[12:36] <wgrant> So it is in devel now.
[12:39] <wgrant> staging seems happy enough, so if it's not OK please yell really really soon.
[12:44] <stub> That branch lifelesslanded would be qa-untestable anyway. Nothing is using the new table yet, so the fallout would be in related areas that don't cope with the triggers.
[12:51] <wgrant> stub: Yep.
[12:56] <bigjools> have we got a run_jobs.py cronned in on staging?
[13:05] <jtv> hi henninge!  Can I trouble you for a review?  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/db-bug-793382/+merge/63545
[13:05]  * henninge tries not to let anything trouble him ...
[13:06] <jtv> Is that good or bad?  :)
[13:06] <henninge> jtv: sure, I am happy to look at your review. ;-)
[13:06] <jtv> \o/
[13:06] <henninge> good for me, saves me the troubling.
[13:07] <henninge> s/at your review/at your proposal/
[13:10] <gmb> flacoste: Can I get an RC for https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/bug-772609-hopefully-without-breaking-anything-this-time/+merge/63432? It should have landed Friday night but bounced due to a [testfix].
[13:16] <wgrant> gary_poster: Morning.
[13:17] <gary_poster> morning wgrant
[13:17] <wgrant> gary_poster: You're still planning to release the new subscriptions stuff during the downtime deploy this week?
[13:17] <gary_poster> or evening, sorry
[13:17] <wgrant> (the bugmail footer change is in devel now, so will be deployed unless it's reverted)
[13:18] <wgrant> (but we still have the strucsub listing regression, so I'm not sure)
[13:18] <gary_poster> wgrant, yes
[13:18] <wgrant> Great.
[13:19] <gary_poster> (the structsub listing thing has branches to be addressed--that also rip out the feature flags--after at least a day or two of making sure that the subscriptions stuff is ok when exposed to everyone)
[13:20] <wgrant> OK. We've only had a few complaints about its absence, so I guess it's not too bad.
[13:20] <gary_poster> cool
[13:20] <wgrant> Despite the mild security implications.
[13:21] <gary_poster> wgrant, security?  Do "other subscribers" affect visibility of private bugs?
[13:22] <wgrant> gary_poster: No. But people inevitably mistakenly put private info in public bugs, and want to know who it was emailed out to.
[13:22] <wgrant> Hopefully that's less common now.
[13:22] <gary_poster> ah, k.
[13:23] <wgrant> gmb: Hmm, I'm not sure who can grant r-c these days. Since there's no RM...
[13:23] <gmb> Hmm.
[13:24] <gmb> Traditionally it was flacoste, lifeless or <RM>. So I guess we have to wait on one of the other two. Or maybe gary_poster can sign off on it.
[13:24] <wgrant> This seems pretty clearly necessary and really wants to land in the next 3 hours, or I will be sad tomorrow.
[13:24] <gmb> Yes.
[13:24]  * gary_poster has vague memories of team leads having privs like this?
[13:25] <wgrant> It hasn't been used since the RM position was abolished,
[13:25] <gmb> gary_poster: Let's say that your memories are right :)
[13:25] <wgrant> Heh.
[13:25] <gary_poster> :-)
[13:25] <stub> Because we are minimizing the stuff that *has* to rollout during downtime deployment. Does this come with a db patch?
[13:25] <gary_poster> gmb, ok, I'll go fiddle with the MP then
[13:25] <gmb> stub: No.
[13:25]  * gary_poster waits...
[13:25] <wgrant> stub: Yeah, this is the issue with deploying features at the same time.
[13:26] <wgrant> Which lifeless is vehemently against.
[13:26] <gmb> stub: But if stuff is rolled out without this, we will have breakages.
[13:26] <gmb> And that will make both wgrant and I go <sadface>
[13:27] <wgrant> This release prep is chaotic enough already, let's not make it worse by delaying this.
[13:27] <gary_poster> stub, barring your quick strong objection, I'll approve
[13:27] <stub> Sure. Might want to make that clear to Francis and/or robert then
[13:27] <stub> I don't object, not that it would matter if I did :)
[13:28] <gary_poster> heh, I dunno
[13:28] <stub> I would wonder if not landing it could be worked around by just disabling the feature using a flag, which also isn't clear from the MP
[13:29] <gary_poster> gmb, rc approved with all the authority of my title behind it ;-)
[13:29] <gmb> Cool, thanks.
[13:30] <stub> Its actually pretty awesome the last few releases haven't needed RC's...
[13:30] <stub> Used to be a truck load of 'OMG its broken' fixes picked up by last minute QA
[13:30] <wgrant> Well, given that we deploy stuff every couple of days, there's less space for stuff to explode. It's been working pretty well!
[13:40] <lifeless> stub: wgrant: gary_poster: FWIW I think 'rc-approval' is fine from squad leads
[13:41] <lifeless> I'm not sure we -need- an rc-approval bit other than 'this has to be landed to make the downtime safe'
[13:41] <gary_poster> cool, thanks lifeless
[13:41] <gary_poster> and agreed
[13:41] <gary_poster> a team review approval seems pretty good to me
[13:41] <lifeless> this is fixing the anonymous viewing of bug pages right ?
[13:42] <lifeless> gary_poster: re: releasing the new subscription stuff - thats slated for Monday right ?
[13:42] <wgrant> It has to be Thursday, I think :/
[13:42] <wgrant> The bugmail footer change is not flagged.
[13:42] <lifeless> why ?
[13:42] <wgrant> So it will be deployed on Thursday.
[13:42] <wgrant> Unless that page works for everyone?
[13:42] <gary_poster> lifeless, correct.  we had the flag discussion on the bug tracker, I think
[13:43] <lifeless> I think we should wait for an hour or two after the deploy before setting the flag
[13:43] <lifeless> or monday per gary_poster's comment just now ;) \o/
[13:43] <gary_poster> no no
[13:43] <gary_poster> I was agreeing with wgrant
[13:43] <lifeless> ok
[13:43] <gary_poster> we can wait, but then there will be a couple of hours in which the links will point to a page without valuable info
[13:44] <gary_poster> page will appear
[13:44] <lifeless> sure
[13:44] <gary_poster> but no info
[13:44] <lifeless> lets just wait ~1 hour - enough time to see that nothing else is truely messed up
[13:44] <gary_poster> I'm fine with that
[13:44] <lifeless> if something is, we can open the flag wide and know its not the flags fault
[13:45] <lifeless> vice versa, if it looks good and we open the flag wide and it falls over, we know it probably is the flag.
[13:45] <lifeless> anyhoo... its now late, so gnight all :)
[13:45] <gary_poster> sounds good lifeless.  'night
[13:47] <wgrant> Night lifeless.
[13:49] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #367: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/367/
[14:00] <deryck> adeuring, henninge -- ping for standup.
[14:01] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #174: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/174/
[14:01] <henninge> deryck: yup
[14:02] <henninge> X crash. Unity?
[14:08] <deryck> reboot, brb
[14:22] <gary_poster> mrevell, hi.  are you going to be around to give some UI opinions in the next half hour or so if I send you some screen shots?
[14:22] <mrevell> gary_poster, Yes, certainly.
[14:22] <gary_poster> mrevell, thank you
[14:22] <mrevell> np :)
[14:22] <henninge> jtv: reviewed
[14:22] <jtv> Thanks!
[14:23] <jtv> henninge: apologizing for not finding anything wrong may be going a bit far :)
[14:23] <henninge> ....
[14:24] <henninge> yeah, let me see if I can find something wrong, then
[14:24] <jtv> uh-oh
[14:27] <henninge> jtv: the indentation of the parenthesis on line 319 and 332 looks strange ... but I may be wrong.
[14:27] <henninge> same on line 350
[14:27] <henninge> jtv:  there you go! ;)
[14:27] <jtv> Thank you, that's better.  :)
[14:28] <jtv> The indentation looks a bit weird there because we rarely open a parenthesis on a line of its own.
[14:28] <jtv> In this case though I do think it makes sense.
[14:28] <henninge> yeah, I guess I was wrong, then ...
[14:29] <henninge> well, actually I wasn't as we agree about the strangeness.
[14:29] <jtv> I'm not sure there's any perfect answer.
[14:29] <jtv> I generally like what I think is GNU style, with opening and closing braces identically indented.
[14:38] <flacoste> gary_poster: you probably want to land your bug 792493 branch on devel once PQM gets out of RC-mode
[14:38] <_mup_> Bug #792493: Creating a structural subscription for a team with a preferredemail makes a mute link that oopses <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by gary> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/792493 >
[14:39] <flacoste> gary_poster: also, i downgraded the revision to deploy to 13163 since that's the one that include the merge, your other RC can be deploy nodowntime afterward
[14:39] <flacoste> so it's not a blocker per se i think
[14:39] <wgrant> It is unless we want to delay the unflagging for hours and have bugmail links broken.
[14:40] <wgrant> We cannot turn the flag on by default without 13164.
[14:40] <gary_poster> flacoste, what wgrant said.  My branch is not that important, but his is
[14:41] <flacoste> ok, makes sense
[14:41] <flacoste> shouldn't be a big problem
[14:41] <gary_poster> cool
[14:41] <flacoste> anybody took care of the conflicts yet?
[14:42] <wgrant> I can prepare a branch if you want, but it's pretty trivial.
[14:43] <wgrant> Since you can just take the files from devel.
[14:43] <flacoste> yeah, no problem
[14:43] <wgrant> There's only three.
[14:44] <wgrant> flacoste: We'll be remerging db-stable tomorrow once devel reopens anyway.
[14:44] <wgrant> So no need to reland it on devel.
[14:45] <flacoste> yep
[14:45] <gary_poster> mrevell, mail sent (with two screenshots inline; hope that's not too annoying)
[14:46] <mrevell> Thanks gary_poster, looking now. Not at all annoying :)
[14:46] <gary_poster> cool :-)
[15:00] <nigelb> Does running launchpad impair the ability for my apache to server php?
[15:03] <wgrant> nigelb: rocketfuel-setup installs apache2-mpm-worker, and PHP isn't threadsafe so it must be removed. But LP works fine with apache2-mpm-prefork instead of -worker, so you should be able to install libapache2-mod-php5 again.
[15:03] <wgrant> (it will remove -worker and install -prefork)
[15:03] <nigelb> wgrant: I tried that and it ended with an unsucessfull install, but its fine.  I'll just use nginx :)
[15:05] <wgrant> nigelb: What went wrong?
[15:05] <wgrant> I've done it in the past.
[15:10] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #175: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 9 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/175/
[15:14] <nigelb> wgrant: dpkg failures
[15:24] <wgrant> nigelb: Huh.
[15:41] <flacoste> jelmer: were you able to QA the bzr upgrade?
[15:47] <deryck> henninge, I see you saw I marked bug 410864 as related.  I agree it looked like a dupe too...
[15:47] <_mup_> Bug #410864: 'choose a source package' suggests undefined when search has too many results <qa-ok> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by henninge> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/410864 >
[15:48] <deryck> henninge, but I thought I'd be cautious and leave it separate since the widget was used differently.
[15:48] <henninge> deryck: argh!
[15:49] <henninge> deryck: I just read the bug properly. It is not the same bug and it is not fixed.
[15:49] <henninge> Actually, I had wondered about what is described there while fixing the bug.
[15:50] <deryck> henninge, I walked through the steps in the bug on qastaging and had a nice list of packages to choose from.  over 35 steps, IIRC.
[15:51] <deryck> 35 steps in the results picker, I mean
[15:51]  * henninge has to try this now
[16:01] <henninge> deryck: :(
[16:01] <deryck> Why the frown?
[16:01] <henninge> deryck: qa-bad
[16:01] <deryck> ah sadness indeed.  How is it bad?
[16:02] <henninge> deryck: It broke the check for picker with search boxes.
[16:02] <deryck> I don't get meaning of "the check for picker with search boxes"
[16:02] <henninge> hm
[16:02] <deryck> henninge, how is it broken?  Sorry to be dumb.
[16:03] <henninge> I just got a result box with 220 batches.
[16:03] <henninge> deryck: https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/687392
[16:03] <_mup_> Bug #687392: Kernel panic with 2.6.32-26 security upgrade <Linux:Confirmed> <linux (Ubuntu):Incomplete> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/687392 >
[16:03] <deryck> heh a ha!
[16:04] <henninge> deryck: edit "Linux" and enter "linux" into the search box.
[16:04] <deryck> I see it now.
[16:04] <deryck> only 220 pages! :)
[16:05] <henninge> deryck: Unfortunately I have to leave really soon and have no time to fix or rollback.
[16:05] <deryck> henninge, so depending on where we are in the qa process, i.e. if qa-ok revisions ahead of you, which is likely.  I'd still leave it qa ok and do a follow on fix....
[16:06] <deryck> henninge, it's a corner case that this many results will turn up normally.  and ugly, big corner case.  but at least the inital bug is fixed and the picker is usable...
[16:06] <deryck> if ugly.
[16:06] <henninge> oookaaay
[16:07] <deryck> henninge, so either constrain the widget width, or limit the number of pages we show.  is anything beyond 40-50 pages useful?
[16:07] <henninge> deryck: the limit is 20
[16:07] <henninge> deryck: I removed it for Robert's special case but unfortunately it leaked into other cases it seems.
[16:08] <deryck> henninge, right, but you could only display 20 and not limit on 20.
[16:08] <henninge> deryck: I filed two other bugs for a proper fix.
[16:08] <henninge> I think they are linked from my mp?
[16:09] <henninge> deryck: I will fix this tomorrow and maybe include a fix for bug 410864.
[16:09] <_mup_> Bug #410864: 'choose a source package' suggests undefined when search has too many results <Launchpad itself:In Progress by henninge> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/410864 >
[16:10] <deryck> henninge, great, thanks.
[16:10] <deryck> though I'm still not clear why 410864 isn't fix since we just looked at 220 results on that page. ;)
[16:10] <deryck> but we can talk about it tomorrow.
[16:15] <sinzui> I am 2 hours into my day. I am already burned. No doubt because I worked 3 days to see progress.
[16:15] <sinzui> 1. We do not need a special JS for linting/evaluating. I can make seed do it
[16:15] <sinzui> 2. I can run YUI tests without firefox, or any browser, I do not require a database or the web server. The test runner still needs  xvfb,
[16:17] <sinzui> jcsackett: do you have time to talk?
[16:18] <jcsackett> sinzui: sure, but one moment. i need to reboot.
[16:20] <jelmer> flacoste: wgrant said we'd have to wait until staging gets updated as it has a importd we can use for testing
[16:21] <jcsackett> sinzui: back, calling you now.
[16:22] <flacoste> jelmer: don't we have a bazaar.qastaging ? i'm sure we can test at least basic bzr functionality there
[16:23] <jelmer> flacoste: the basic bzr functionality we can test there - and that works, but all the bugs associated with my branch require running of a importd with the new code
[16:24] <flacoste> jelmer: staging is running 10647 and you require 10649 right?
[16:27] <jelmer> flacoste: what branch are those revno's for?
[16:28] <flacoste> jelmer: db-stable, that's what staging runs, i see that your stable landing was merged on db-stable at 10649
[16:28] <jelmer> (on another note, why are there 5 people with recipes that build lp:~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/stable)
[16:29] <jelmer> flacoste: ah, yep
[16:30] <flacoste> jelmer: recipe: i hav eno idea
[16:30] <flacoste> people trying to autobuild launchpad .deb?
[16:31] <maxb> Oh dear. That's an impressive lack of clue
[16:31] <bigjools> yet hilarious at the same time
[16:31] <jelmer> I guess.. none of them merge in any packaging branches though, so that's doomed to fail
[16:32] <maxb> It's about as ridiculous as requesting subversion code imports from bazaar.launchpad.net, which people also seem to do from time to time
[16:33] <jelmer> maxb: we should fix that by just letting them enter a URL and Doing The Right Thing
[16:33] <maxb> But, what is The Right Thing?
[16:34] <maxb> It's not even clear what they are hoping to achieve
[16:34] <jelmer> maxb: In some cases I guess a mirror (if it's a bzr branch elsewhere), if they're trying to import from bazaar.launchpad.ent we should tell them to "bzr branch && hack && bzr push"
[16:34] <jelmer> maxb: I think they're looking for the fork button
[16:35] <maxb> Could be
[16:36] <maxb> On a related note, we could use a "Do you really want to be doing this?" banner for people entering questions on Launchpad itself
[16:37] <maxb> Back on the code import issue, I think https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new is wrong to default to Subversion
[16:37] <maxb> It should default to nothing and force you to pick one
[16:37] <jelmer> maxb: we should not require you to specify the VCS at all, just let you enter a URL
[16:38] <maxb> Hm. I am of the opinion that there is no point writing the code to do that, because if a user can't even figure out what VCS they are importing from, they don't deserve an import :-)
[16:39] <flacoste> maxb: that's a little harsh :-)
[16:39] <flacoste> maybe they onbly care about bzr
[16:39] <flacoste> whatever, just give me a bzr repo
[16:39] <flacoste> !
[16:40] <jelmer> maxb: *I* would appreciate having to click one radio button less for each import
[16:40] <jelmer> if we have the data we shouldn't bother to ask our users for it
[16:49] <flacoste> jelmer: staging is updating now, should be available in ~90 minutes
[16:52] <jelmer> flacoste: great - thanks :)
[17:02] <rvba> bac: Hi ... I'm not sure I should have done it this way, but I created another branch ("a rebased" version of the branch you've been reviewing) so that it targets devel.
[17:02] <rvba> bac: sorry to bother you with that, but perhaps you could review/approve it ...?
[17:02] <rvba> https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/launchpad/init-multiple-parents-bug-777120-devel/+merge/63572
[18:33] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #176: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 17 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/176/
[19:29] <timrc> wgrant, I might  be seeing a regression of https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/750640
[19:29] <_mup_> Bug #750640: If the source version differs from the binary version, it is not specified in the Package index for that binary <oem-services> <qa-ok> <soyuz-publish> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by wgrant> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/750640 >
[19:30] <maxb> timrc: It's 4:30am in Melbourne...
[19:31] <timrc> maxb, $1 USD says he has logging enabled and will see it when he wakes up
[19:51] <timrc> wgrant, nm, I think I misread comment #2
[20:30] <lifeless> morning y'all
[21:12] <lifeless> flacoste: yo
[21:13] <flacoste> hi lifeless
[21:16] <mwhudson> jelmer: does launchpad no longer depend on pysvn?
[21:16] <mwhudson> (i guess cscvs still does)
[21:28] <mwhudson> hm, it seems the update of sourcedeps.cache depends on dictionary order
[21:28] <abentley> mwhudson: yes, that's likely.
[21:29] <mwhudson> shall i file a bug?
[21:29] <abentley> mwhudson: But I thought it would only perform the update if the data had changed.
[21:29] <mwhudson> ah
[21:30] <abentley> mwhudson: I experienced a bug this morning where it said the cache had been updated, so I'm now no longer sure that's right.
[21:30] <mwhudson> i think that's what it just did to me
[21:31] <abentley> mwhudson: Okay, what did it do?  Are the cache files the same data in different orders?
[21:32] <mwhudson> abentley: it looks at a quick glance as if it will update the cache if any branches were updated, not if any branch ended up with a different tip than that in the cache
[21:32] <mwhudson> so i think if i revert and run update-sourcecode again, it will not be changed
[21:32] <mwhudson> abentley: yeah
[21:33] <abentley> mwhudson: okay, that's useful.
[21:33] <jelmer> mwhudson: hi
[21:33] <jelmer> mwhudson: cscvs indeed still does, and there codehosting code also still uses oo_svn
[21:33] <mwhudson> jelmer: ah well
[21:34] <mwhudson> i guess hypothetically we could kill off the remaining cscvs-svn imports and then delete all the svn code from cscvs
[21:35] <mwhudson> but well, fails to beat the effort/reward test i guess
[21:35] <jelmer> mwhudson: yeah, probably
[21:35] <jelmer> mwhudson: I was going to ask the other day - the codeimport workers don't have direct/API access to the database, right?
[21:36] <mwhudson> jelmer: no
[21:36] <mwhudson> the machines still do, for sodding oops-prune
[21:37] <jelmer> mwhudson: I was looking at bug 432217, I guess that's a fair bit harder in that case
[21:37] <_mup_> Bug #432217: Import branches have auto-format upgrade disabled <code-import> <lp-code> <tech-debt> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by jelmer> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/432217 >
[21:38] <jelmer> mwhudson: it seems though, that at least for bzr-{git,svn,hg} branches we could just nuke the branch if it's in an old format rather than bothering with upgrading?
[21:38] <mwhudson> jelmer: yes, for deterministic imports that's totally the way to go
[21:38] <mwhudson> for the others, ugh, i guess there's no good answer really
[21:39] <mwhudson> jelmer: we can give the machines access to the db again if we want, but i've always regarded them as a bit more likely to get compromised than the average machine
[21:39] <jelmer> the code has a FIXME saying a upgrade job should be created, though I wonder how that would have to happen (XML-RPC request??)
[21:39] <mwhudson> (i seem to be more paranoid than most people about this)
[21:39] <mwhudson> uhh
[21:39] <mwhudson> a branchupgradejob wouldn't help
[21:39] <mwhudson> because of the storage of the import branches on escudero
[21:40] <mwhudson> so if you upgraded the branch on crowberry, it would just get downgraded again the next time the import puller ran
[21:40] <jelmer> ah, urgh
[21:40] <mwhudson> (the real answer to this side of things is to have the code import worker have some kind of token-mediated access to crowberry that allows write access to exactly one branch)
[21:41] <mwhudson> i think on staging the code import worker can write to any branch on the codehost in effect
[21:41] <mwhudson> this doesn't seem like a good idea for prod :)
[21:43] <jelmer> :)
[21:44] <jelmer> I'll have a look at nuking the bzr-{hg,svn,git} branches; we can nuke and recreate cscvs-based svn import branches
[21:44] <jelmer> that just leaves CVS imports
[21:45] <jcsackett> sinzui: did you ping me earlier?
[21:46] <sinzui> jcsackett: no, but a kitten may have. She slept on my keyboard during lunch
[21:46] <jcsackett> sinzui: dig. the cats are after your computer again.
[21:50] <sinzui> jcsackett: I just approved your yui test branch
[21:50] <mwhudson> jelmer: wow the ratio of failed to running says something here: https://lpstats.canonical.com/graphs/CodeImportsCVSBreakdown/
[21:53] <jcsackett> sinzui: cool, thanks.
[22:07] <jelmer> garr, I thought my internet connection was just bad today
[22:08] <jelmer> mwhudson: oh, wow (those colors are.. unusual)
[22:08] <mwhudson> jelmer: sysadmins are not visual designers, usually :p
[22:12] <jelmer> mwhudson: while you're here.. am I correct in thinking that the code import workers don't have any access to e.g. information on what the development focus for a project is?
[22:12] <mwhudson> jelmer: yes, that's true too
[22:12] <mwhudson> it's not hard to arrange to pass more information along though
[22:12] <mwhudson> (are you thinking about stacking?)
[22:12] <jelmer> mwhudson: yes, exactly
[22:16] <cr3> if I add a new method to the restful api, do I need to add @operation_for_version("beta")?
[22:18]  * timrc would think "devel" would be a more appropriate version *duck*
[22:19] <lifeless> devel
[22:20] <cr3> timrc: I'm thinking "not backward compatible == beta", "backward compatible == devel"
[22:20] <lifeless> beta *was* a beta
[22:20] <lifeless> it is not now
[22:20] <lifeless> ignore it
[22:20] <lifeless> you want for devel
[22:21] <lifeless> mwhudson: jelmer: those machines are not getting db access.
[22:21] <timrc> can the suggestion that gets spit at you if you do not include @operation_for_version be changed to suggest 'devel' rather than 'beta'? I stumbled upon this recently as well and some head scratching ensued
[22:21] <mwhudson> ah, now we have someone who is as paranoid as me apparently
[22:21] <lifeless> timrc: patches gratefully...
[22:22] <timrc> lifeless, =)
[22:22] <jelmer> lifeless: fair enough
[22:23] <mwhudson> lifeless: has the access they have for oops-prune been removed then?
[22:23] <timrc> lifeless, hey while you're here... I did not really have a reviewer for https://code.launchpad.net/~timrchavez/launchpad/set_ppa_private_from_api_724740-2 -- I discussed some w/ bigjools, though... should I just add the next on call reviewer to the merge proposal ?
[22:24] <jelmer> can it be that launchpad is firewalled by sourceforge?
[22:25] <mwhudson> jelmer: in the past they've been happy with us doing what we do, but it's possible for sure
[22:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: I thought that went *out* to them / was a different DB
[22:26] <lifeless> timrc: ping them here if you can
[22:27] <lifeless> jelmer: mwhudson: so its not for security I don't want the importds talking to the DB
[22:27] <lifeless> rather its that long running processes with DB access have a history of terrible transaction handling.
[22:27] <lifeless> these things have no call to know about our DB schema.
[22:27] <lifeless> and if they did, downtime deploys would get that much harder.
[22:33] <flacoste> after merging devel i have an error with sprite generation:
[22:33] <flacoste> KeyError: u'../images/mute.png'
[22:33] <flacoste> any ideas?
[22:35] <flacoste> ok, make clean solved the issue
[22:46] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #368: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/368/
[23:02] <lifeless> back
[23:39] <thumper> what's with all the failing import emails?
[23:40] <thumper> there seems to be an uncharacteristically large number of them
[23:40] <mwhudson> thumper: maybe this is related? <jelmer> can it be that launchpad is firewalled by sourceforge?
[23:40] <thumper> haha
[23:40] <thumper> maybe


[00:23] <_amine__> according to this KDE page: https://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk/kioslaves/tags , the URL: tags:/Tag1/Tag2/Tag3 in Dolphin will show all the files that contain all 3 tags, When trying this I got "could not enter folder tags:/tag1/tag2" is something missing ?
 Hello! I would like KDE connect to start when I login. If I go to autostart under settings there is no KDE connect anywhere! ? How can I get it to autostart?
 @Anarchotaoist, kdeconnect will be in the system tray by default on startup if you have it set in systemtray settings
 @acheronuk, Hi Rik! How do I set it in systemtray settings?
 @Anarchotaoist, right click the ^ arrow in the system tray, and "configure system tray"
 (Photo, 347x124) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/Josoxzaq/file_9661.jpg
 ok, under 'extra items'?
 That is ticked.
 @Anarchotaoist, ok, so is there but only shows when you left click the ^ ?
 Yes, not showing in the system tray - only in the systray settings.
 Is it set to "always show" ?
 The does not seem to be any options for "always show" or other. ??
 (Photo, 1038x526) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/O5rmA2Ah/file_9662.jpg
 umm. just "show"
 Ok, yes. I found it. It was on auto. I do have it open, so you would think it would show there! ?
 The huristics the "Auto" option uses to decided if something is show or not, sometimes seem to give odd results
 I seem to have lost pairing with the phone. Could a VPN affect this?
 ok
 possibly
 Ok, thanks Rik. I may do a reboot and see if it shows in the systray and connects to the phone.
 @acheronuk Groovy! Connection is back! 😃Thanks again! 🙏
[12:09] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:53] <ylel9> hello
[14:09] <Alexfrench> hello
 Hello, I'm looking to match the theme of Kubuntu 18.04 on Neon...was wondering if it is posted anywhere?
 @TimApple, It's basically just Breeze dark for Desktop theme. Apply that without changing the 'colors' or 'look & feel' theme, and you will be 95% there
 ok thanks
 not reall a Kubuntu issue, but one generally on compiling that wireless driver. #ubuntu IRC channel and/or ubuntuforums are likely a better place to ask
[20:07] <floown> Hello
[20:10] <floown> I search to scroll Konsole lines page by page with the mouse. In systemsettings there is only 12 lines for the maximum. The page up key and page down display only a ~ (so not like in Firefox)


[05:06] <didrocks> good morning
[05:08] <RAOF> Hey there didrocks.
[05:08] <didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
[05:08] <RAOF> I'm alright.
[05:09] <RAOF> It's a pity the weekends are so short, though :)
[05:09] <didrocks> heh, got 3 days for once.   A fun wedding?
[05:53] <pitti> it was indeed! they picked nice places for the ceremony (a castle), and the party
[05:54] <didrocks> was nice! 3 days week-end was needed. Just the time to relax and do some exercice + enjoying the feist in Lyon (fireworks)
[05:54] <pitti> http://piware.de/fotos/Hochzeit-Henriette-Andre-Juli2011/ :)
[05:54] <pitti> didrocks: recovered a bit from last week's stress then?
[05:55] <didrocks> pitti: not really stressful (well a lot of questions/bashing on unity, ok…), but crazy hours, yeah. Totally recovered now!
[06:03] <didrocks> pitti: ok, so no need for ping you on the apport dpkg issue from Raphael :-)
[06:03] <pitti> I did some email catchup on Friday
[06:03] <didrocks> we discussed it at RMLL FYI ;)
[06:10] <jbicha> pitti: did you see my g-p-m merge request?
[06:11] <pitti> jbicha: yes, thanks for this! just uploaded
[06:11] <pitti> jbicha: ah, sorry, no; I merged your g-s-d branch
[06:11] <pitti> I didn't see a g-p-m MP yet
[06:12] <jbicha> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-power-manager/gnome-power-manager-3.1.2/+merge/68165
[06:13] <didrocks> ok, time to reboot after a week of updates, crossing fingers :)
[06:13] <pitti> ah, /me uncommits his 13-energy-star.patch patch cleanup then and merges your's
[06:13] <pitti> didrocks: you missed all the /run fun!
[06:14] <didrocks> pitti: I followed it by emails, it was enough of "fun" :-)
[06:14] <jbicha> pitti: oh, good thing I said something
[06:22] <pitti> jbicha: I'm surprised that g-p-m still has the icon-policy key
[06:22] <pitti> I thought that moved into g-s-d now
[06:22] <pitti> respectively indicator-power
[06:23] <jbicha> it probably should be there
[06:23] <pitti> anyway, looks good, thanks!
[06:23] <jbicha> by the way, these override settings don't seem to work for me
[06:25] <jbicha> none of them appear to change the defaults or even get applied at all
[06:25] <pitti> jbicha: in g-s-d you mean?
[06:26] <jbicha> pitti: I mean not one of the gschema.override's installed here seem to actually do anythinig
[06:36] <jbicha> pitti: oh, never mind, it's just dconf-editor that's broken
[06:36] <pitti> oh? it usually seems to work for me, including picking up overrides
[06:52] <didrocks> waow, the CD is really oversized. What happened?
[06:54] <didrocks> mvo: hey how are you? :)
[06:54] <mvo> hey didrocks! I'm good, how are you?
[06:54] <didrocks> mvo: I'm fine, thanks! I managed to do some good progress on oneconf during my RMLL trip :)
[06:55] <didrocks> mvo: not on #oneconf?
[06:57] <pitti> didrocks: apparently nobody heard my plea for rebuilding ubuntu-meta on Friday, doing now :)
[06:58] <pitti> didrocks: we added ibus-sunpinyin, but it's too big
[06:58] <pitti> originally I thought that ibus-pinyin was 15 MB (that's what apt-get install does), but due to our clever seeds of preferring the android db, it's only 1.5
[06:58] <pitti> so rebuilding meta will get it down by some 17 MB
[06:58] <pitti> the bad news is that now we once again have no plan how to get rid of the remaining 13 MB
[06:59] <didrocks> pitti: heh, that's worth an ubuntu-meta rebuild, indeed :)
[06:59] <didrocks> hum… no more langpack to remove?
[06:59] <pitti> the original deal for tbird was to build a Chinese image and dropping ibus-pinyin and chinese langpack
[06:59] <pitti> we can still remove the Chinese langpack then
[06:59] <pitti> which will give us back 6.5 MB
[06:59] <didrocks> but that will enable to get a chinese image of 703 MB? still
[07:00] <pitti> and chrisccoulson said that the recent 3 MB firefox growth should be fixed in the next build
[07:01] <pitti> ah, need to re-promote ibus-pinyin
[07:01] <RAOF> If cairo drops its egl backend then libegl and friends will drop off the CD, too.
[07:01] <pitti> oh, will it?
[07:02] <pitti> I guess it still causes memory hogs with nvidia?
[07:02] <RAOF> Yes, yes it does.
[07:02] <RAOF> Unless someone does the work to make it dlopen stuff, it's highly likely we'll just disable the backend again.
[07:02] <RAOF> (This was Seb's plan)
[07:03] <RAOF> That'd drop a couple of meg.
[07:04] <didrocks> glibmm will soon be dropped from compiz and unity, but there is still gparted depending on it, I think
[07:05] <RAOF> And if we make it dlopen stuff, then we can drop egl from the cd anyway.
[07:05]  * RAOF → shop.
[07:07] <pitti> didrocks: and gnome-system-monitor?
[07:08] <didrocks> pitti: oh, even the gnome3 one? I didn't check… ok, no hope on that direction then
[07:08] <pitti> didrocks: is there a gnome 3 one now?
[07:08] <pitti> didrocks: a few weeks ago, cjwatson made a first pass at porting to gtkmm3.0
[07:08] <pitti> didrocks: but it would only move from gtkmm 2.4 to 3.0, so no real difference
[07:09] <didrocks> pitti: not sure, didn't follow that TBH. So you seem more up to date than I there :)
[07:13] <jbicha> pitti: I was working on packaging a newer gnome-shell but it doesn't have a ~ubuntu-desktop branch
[07:14] <jbicha> I guess it's in universe, it that why?
[07:14] <pitti> mostly, yes
[07:15] <pitti> jbicha: main reason is that we would like it to stay in sync :)
[07:15] <Sweetshark> Morning desktopers!
[07:15] <pitti> jbicha: seems our only delta is the gir1.2-json-1.0 rename, which hopefully happened in Debian as well?
[07:15] <pitti> hey Sweetshark, how are you?
[07:16] <jbicha> pitti: yeah it looks like the only change now is that we have different default favorite-apps
[07:16] <pitti> jbicha: yes, it did
[07:16] <pitti> jbicha: i. e. 3.0.2-1ubuntu1 was only a temporary delta, and the first one ever
[07:17] <didrocks> good morning Sweetshark
[07:17] <jbicha> pitti: are we going to keep the favorite-apps delta though?
[07:18] <pitti> jbicha: I don't see that delta yet, is it in a merge proposal?
[07:18]  * pitti is looking at apt-get changelog gnome-shell
[07:19]  * pitti checks if the json rename is in svn
[07:19] <pitti> it's not, I'll commit it there
[07:20] <jbicha> pitti: it's 01_favorite_apps.patch and it is part of 3.0.2-1ubuntu1
[07:20] <pitti> jbicha: that's in Debian
[07:21] <pitti> it changes mozilla-firefox.desktop to epiphany.desktop
[07:21] <jbicha> except Debian does it wrong ;-)
[07:22] <jbicha> the Ubuntu version has firefox, libreoffice, banshee, & perhaps should have thunderbird
[07:23] <jbicha> oh you're right, Ubuntu didn't diverge
[07:23] <jbicha> but should we?
[07:23]  * didrocks thinks we shouldn't diverge apart if someone is willing to maintain gnome-shell in ubuntu
[07:24] <pitti> if we can change that only if dpkg-vendor --is ubuntu, sure
[07:24] <pitti>   * debian/control.in, debian/rules: When building on Ubuntu, add a dependency
[07:24] <pitti>     to gnome-icon-theme-full.
[07:24] <pitti> ^ I did that for our gnome-icon-theme split
[07:24] <jbicha> ok, is Debian going to have Gnome 3.2 ready for Oneiric's release?
[07:24] <pitti> jbicha: that's the plan
[07:24] <pitti> erm, sorry, misread
[07:25] <pitti> jbicha: no, Debian will stay at 3.0 until 3.2 is released
[07:25] <pitti> we are packaging 3.2 for Ubuntu right now
[07:25] <pitti> micahg: committed your gnome-shell json dependency fix to debian svn, thanks
[07:26] <didrocks> hum, my usb key isn't automounted, dmesg tells me all is fine, should I check udev?
[07:26] <pitti> didrocks: do you see it in nautilus?
[07:27] <didrocks> no, I don't
[07:27] <pitti> didrocks: in gvfs-mount -li ?
[07:29] <didrocks> pitti: no, I just have my optical drive listed
[07:31] <pitti> didrocks: do you see it in udisks --dump?
[07:31] <pitti> udisks --enumerate-device-files might be easier to read
[07:32] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's in!
[07:33] <pitti> ok, so something in gvfs
[07:34]  * didrocks looks at recent uploads
[07:34] <pitti> didrocks: can you remove it again, start "gvfs-mount -oi", and plug it in?
[07:34] <pitti> let's see what happens
[07:34] <didrocks> sure
[07:35] <didrocks> pitti: seems that it doesn't notice anything :/
[07:35] <pitti> didrocks: but you do see it in "udisks --monitor-detail" if you unplug/replug/
[07:35] <pitti> ?
[07:36] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's listed there
[07:37] <didrocks> but nothing in gvfs-mount -oi meanwhile
[07:37] <Sweetshark> pitti: I got mails about translation template imports for lo-build in natty, did you upload 3.3.3 to natty-proposed while I was ill?
[07:37] <pitti> is gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor running?
[07:37] <pitti> Sweetshark: it got accepted into natty-proposed on Friday, yes
[07:37] <didrocks> pitti: it even seems to be happily running
[07:37] <pitti> Sweetshark: feeling better now?
[07:37] <Sweetshark> pitti: yes, Ready to conquer the world!
[07:38] <didrocks> should I kill it and run it by hand?
[07:38] <pitti> didrocks: could you perhaps attach an strace -fvv to it and do the replug exercise again?
[07:38] <didrocks> pitti: sure, trying
[07:40] <Sweetshark> pitti: 3.4.1 for oneiric getting its finishing touches (some misbehaving script for creating libebook deps) and I will leave out the mono stuff for the first try.
[07:46] <didrocks> pitti: sorry, had to do it twice, because gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor needs to be ran in /. Here are the trace with connecting, disconnecting: http://paste.ubuntu.com/646280/
[07:47] <pitti> argh, an -s1024 would be helpful there, too, to be able to read the dbus messages
[07:47] <pitti> but anyway, looking
[07:48] <didrocks> can do :)
[07:48] <pitti> bah, why does it read /etc/fstab a million times
[07:48] <pitti> didrocks: but the device is not in there, is it?
[07:49] <didrocks> pitti: no, it's not listed there, I just checked again
[07:50] <didrocks> last time I tried this ubuntu usb stick it worked, I should probably try to swap to another one, just in case…
[07:50] <pitti> didrocks: you can try udisks --mount /dev/sdb1
[07:50] <pitti> if that works, the stick is okay
[07:51] <pitti> didrocks: can you give me the udisks --dump output while it's plugged in?
[07:51] <didrocks> pitti: indeed, udisks --mount /dev/sdb1 works
[07:52] <didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/646284/
[07:53] <pitti> uh, that looks screwed up
[07:53] <didrocks> hum, I can see another usb stick randomely picked
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: what seems screwed?
[07:54] <pitti> looks like both /dev/sdb and sdb1 claim to be a mountable file system
[07:54] <pitti> (iso 9660)
[07:54] <pitti> but it should still automount sdb1
[07:54] <didrocks> oh right, nice
[07:54] <didrocks> hence the manual mount working
[07:55] <jbicha> pitti: I've got the Ubuntu favorites patch for Debian, can I email it to you?
[07:56] <pitti> jbicha: oh, great! sure
[07:56] <pitti> hah! take that, gsettings-data-convert
[07:56] <pitti> no more crashing
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: probably usb-creator wasn't in a good shape last time I created the key. But anyway, as you told, it should pick one part to mount anyway
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: nice \o/
[07:57] <didrocks> pitti: thanks a bunch for helping debugging and the explanation ;)
[07:57] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:57] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[07:57] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[07:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks, good and long week-end ;) and you?
[07:58] <didrocks> I can see a thunderbird with nice notification, thanks! :)
[07:58] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[07:59] <pitti> didrocks: how big is this thing?
[07:59] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good too thanks. i had a long-ish weekend, and went to stay with some friends.
[07:59] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you
[07:59] <chrisccoulson> ?
[07:59] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps I can replicate it here if you dump the first MB to a file, and I put it on an USB stick of mine with an usb-creator output on it?
[07:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks!
[08:00]  * Sweetshark dances. 3.4.1 finished (without mono, but still).
[08:00] <didrocks> pitti: it's an ubuntu iso, nothing more. Can do a dd for the first MB, sure
[08:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it seems that the PGO build failure on friday is i386-specific (which is why it worked locally)
[08:01] <chrisccoulson> that's a bit weird still :/
[08:01] <pitti> didrocks: right, but with the specialty of the partition table/first blockes being messed up
[08:03] <didrocks> pitti: dd if=/dev/sdb of=messedupkey count=2048 sounds good to you?
[08:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is that a compiler bug, or does firefox have platform specific code?
[08:03] <pitti> didrocks: I"m not soure what the default bs is; perhaps try bs=1MB count=1 ?
[08:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the code which fails isn't platform specific, so i'm not sure yet
[08:04] <didrocks> that can work too :-)
[08:05] <didrocks> pitti: here we go: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/messedupkey
[08:05] <pitti> didrocks: cheers; just uploaded gconf for the session start crash, so I can now look into that
[08:06] <didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks a lot :)
[08:07] <pitti> jbicha: ah, I'm not a big fan of ubuntu.series -- it has to be kept up to date
[08:07] <pitti> it's not applied in addition to series
[08:07] <pitti> jbicha: perhaps we can use sed in debian/rules instead of a patch?
[08:10] <jbicha> pitti: hmm, I think I sorta understand what you're saying but I haven't done anything like that before
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: wait, your's actually says iso9660?
[08:10] <jbicha> I haven't done ubuntu.series before either but I was able to read the man page for that
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: usb-creator creates and writes FAT
[08:11] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps you tried dd'ing an .iso first to sdb then to sdb1?
[08:11] <pitti> didrocks: as cjwatson announced recently we should now have hybrid images, so that would actually work
[08:11] <didrocks> pitti: oh oh… you are probably right, I'm remember doing that some weeks ago
[08:11] <didrocks> for testing it
[08:11] <pitti> didrocks: does it work?
[08:12] <pitti> didrocks: just trying to recreate your steps to get an USB stick which is roughly the same
[08:12] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it clearly does :)
[08:12] <pitti> nice
[08:13] <didrocks> pitti: so blame the user :-) me in that case! anyway, trying to mount the first part in case there are both would still be a great addition :)
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: yes, I know
[08:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, it's a shame that the 10.04.3 ISO won't have a nice shiny new firefox version on it ;)
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: I'm not arguing it's not a bug, just trying to recreate your broken usb stick
[08:14] <didrocks> pitti: right, you totally right, quite crazy I forgot that, sorry :/
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, you fixed the gconf crash? i was going to look at that this morning :)
[08:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[08:15] <pitti> no worries ;)
[08:15] <pitti> slightly fewer apport spam dialogs at session start
[08:16] <pitti> the "system crashes" ones are annoying enough
[08:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you have the "Sharing Options" by right click in a nautilus folder?
[08:20] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, it doesn't look like it
[08:21] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: seems I'm not crazy then :)
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: ah, no need for your image even -- merely dd'ing the iso on an USB stick reproduces that very bug
[08:25] <seb128> hi!
[08:26] <pitti> bonjour seb128! had a nice long weekend?
[08:26] <didrocks> pitti: oh nice :)
[08:26] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[08:26] <seb128> pitti, hey, excellent thanks!
[08:26] <seb128> hey didrocks, how was your week off?
[08:26] <didrocks> seb128: it wasn't a week off ;)
[08:26] <seb128> rrrrright ;-)
[08:26] <didrocks> but was nice
[08:27] <didrocks> seb128: even some people forced me to fix unity-2d at 02:00 AM :p
[08:27] <seb128> next you will tell me GUADEC is an hard work week as well :-p
[08:27] <seb128> lol
[08:27] <didrocks> didn't say it's an hard work, but people was disappointed to not see you so close to your home :)
[08:29] <seb128> lol, you told them that some people have work to do? ;-)
[08:30] <didrocks> seb128: it wasn't a slacking week… but oh well, no time to argue, I have work to follow on
[08:30] <seb128> didrocks, right, have a week off I bet you have ;-)
[08:30] <didrocks> …
[08:30] <seb128> ok, I stop trolling you there :p
[08:31] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, I have now the answer on your thunderbird not getting new emails on some folder before clicking on them: the indicator doesn't show them as well
[08:34] <vuntz> seb128: fwiw, I think it's important from a community perspective to have developers going to events like rmll
[08:35] <seb128> hey vuntz
[08:36] <seb128> vuntz, I'm sure didrocks got you to say that in exchange of something ;-)
[08:37] <seb128> vuntz, but right, I don't disagree, it's just that cycles have a limited number of days and hours and it's hard to get work done and to attend all the conferences around as well
[08:37] <vuntz> oh, I tried to get him to break some stuff, but that didn't work
[08:39] <seb128> vuntz, did you manage to second review the wnck patch? ;-)
[08:40] <vuntz> I'm waiting for some angel telling me what's the best way to name the API
[08:40] <desrt> seb128: didier told me that he relaxed a lot and did almost no work at rmll
[08:40] <desrt> seb128: i wouldn't have high expectations of what he accomplished while there
[08:40] <didrocks> desrt: :-)
[08:41] <seb128> desrt, right, next he's going to tell people that GUADEC is a lot of work, I tell you ;-)
[08:41] <desrt> GUADEC is a lot of work
[08:41] <desrt> ...for ones liver
[08:42] <didrocks> seb128: did I tell that? but ok, meeting the openshot core dev, building the community, taking the time to explain why unity and having people changing their opinion is not that important…
[08:43] <seb128> didrocks, let's stop that, I was mostly playing a bit with you, no worry ;-)
[08:43] <seb128> hug!
[08:44] <seb128> pitti, oh, you fixed that gconf segfault, great
[08:46] <seb128> didrocks, oh, happy piloting btw ;-)
[08:46] <didrocks> seb128: I piloted the week before RMLL to swap with last Friday
[08:46] <didrocks> but thanks for the reminder nevertheless
[08:46] <seb128> oh ok, I'm catching up on calendar and stuff since I was off friday
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: yay less apport spam ;)
[08:48] <seb128> nice, the new gwibber landed, I can clean some extra gtk2 gconf lines
[08:48] <seb128> but robert_ancell still didn't fix lightdm :-(
[08:48] <seb128> hum, I wonder if he noticed it was broken, I will drop him an email
[08:50] <RAOF> What's broken about lightdm?
[08:50]  * RAOF is pretty sure he's got the latest packages, and everything *seems* to be working when he booted today…
[08:51] <seb128> the example greeter (which is default) segfault on protected userdirectories
[08:51] <seb128> it seems to not like not being able to read the .dmrc
[08:51] <RAOF> Ah.  And neither of those statements apply to my system, which would be why I haven't noticed :)
[08:51] <pitti> I use ecryptfs for my home, but the unity greeter
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, interesting. thanks
[08:52] <seb128> the unity greeter doesn't have the issue
[08:52] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
[08:52] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[08:53] <seb128> ideally we will get the unity greeter mir-reviewed and promoted soon but still would be nice to fix the default greeter
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, btw did you see my py3cairo preinst comment before the w.e?
[09:00] <seb128> well middle of previous week rather, before my w.e
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: I did
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: I reuploaded to NEW with the preinst removed
[09:00] <seb128> ok, will re-review it
[09:01] <pitti> merci
[09:01] <seb128> it seems fine out of that bit
[09:01] <seb128> de rien ;-)
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: I also sent it to the Debian pycairo maintainers, but haven't heard back from them yet
[09:01] <seb128> yeah, he's usually not very active or responsive
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: but I found a way to build python3-gobject without it, so I could do this large change in Debian
[09:01] <pitti> and we can enable the py3cairo bits once py3cairo lands in debian
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, do you use a local filter in thunderbird to move your mail between folders btw, or do you do filtering elsewhere?
[09:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: filtering is done server side, nothing local
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, aha
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i guess that might be why
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i think thunderbird checks those folders lazily
[09:06] <didrocks> oh…
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i'm not 100% sure on that though
[09:07] <didrocks> some seems to be refresh quite frequently, but it's a huge blocker though :/
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, perhaps try right-clicking on the folder and selecting "When getting new messages for this account, always check this folder" (not sure what that translates to in french though)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> (in the folder properties)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i don't see the issue because i do my filtering locally
[09:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: trying and will tell you
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:10] <didrocks> yw :)
[09:12] <rodrigo_> hi
[09:15] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[09:17] <didrocks> morning rodrigo_
[09:17] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you
[09:18] <rodrigo_> hi seb128, pitti, didrocks, how are you?
[09:18] <didrocks> rodrigo_: I'm fine, thanks, and you?
[09:18] <pitti> rodrigo_: quite fine, thanks!
[09:18] <pitti> how about yourself?
[09:18] <rodrigo_> I'm a bit tired since I went to sleep quite late last night, but fine otherwise :)
[09:19] <rodrigo_> didrocks, seb128: enjoyed your 14th july? :)
[09:19] <seb128> yes, very much!
[09:20] <seb128> nice slacking w.e ;-)
[09:20] <rodrigo_> :)
[09:20] <didrocks> nice fireworks in Lyon in the evening, I worked in the train and catchup on emails once back but trade with the 15th
[09:25] <rodrigo_> but no head cutting in the celebrations, right? :)
[09:28] <seb128> no ;-)
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, did you just restart the retracers today?
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: yes, fixed up the broken amd64 chroot
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: well, "just" - that was maybe 1.5 hours ago
[09:30] <seb128> ok, good, I was wondering if they were catching up on backlog or if we get a stream of new bugs ;-)
[09:30] <seb128> reading through my bug email box it's retracer spammed
[09:30] <seb128> but if that's backlog catching up that's ok
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
[09:36] <pitti> does the new me-menu work for anyone?
[09:40] <jibel> it doesn't for me, and it breaks stacking of other menus
[09:41] <pitti> same here
[09:41] <pitti> and it pointlessly shows my name
[09:42] <jibel> +1 and my name is fairly long. it uses 15% of panel width :/
[09:42] <pitti> it should probably show your status ("Away") instead, which would make more sense
[09:42] <pitti> or at least the user name, not the real name
[09:42] <seb128> didrocks, does the skip bar flag you want to use in nautilus means also it will not be in the alt-tab list?
[09:43] <didrocks> seb128: right, for John, it's acceptable
[09:43] <seb128> didrocks, what about non unity sessions?
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: don't know, I think we don't have a nice story there
[09:44] <seb128> hum
[09:44] <didrocks> I raised it during the discussion for what it worth
[09:44] <seb128> didrocks, can we have those discussions in public or better on the bug next time?
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: sure
[09:44] <seb128> I'm not sure I agree with that change, having dialogs not in alt-tab really sucks
[09:45] <seb128> especially when you are not under unity and you don't have a launcher
[09:45] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[09:45] <didrocks> not being able to open nautilus during a copy isn't nice as well
[09:47] <seb128> well you can middle click the icon ;-)
[09:47] <didrocks> not really well advertized :-) but the real solution as told, will be to do some heavy tab-related work in bamf
[09:48] <seb128> right, let's see, I guess they are not going to do that refactoring during the lts cycle either
[09:48] <seb128> so let's see how it goes in practice
[09:48] <seb128> we should make the copy dialog a standalone process so it has its own icon :p
[09:49] <didrocks> integrated into compiz? :-)
[09:51] <seb128> why not ;-)
[09:57] <mvo> what is the current convention for dbus services "CamelCaseFunctions" or "pep8_style_lowercase" ? or something else?
[09:58] <mvo> hey seb128, welcome back, apt with hold-back-for-things-that-would-break-recommends has lnaded (we talked about it during the rally)
[09:58] <seb128> mvo, hey, great!
[09:58] <mvo> (dbus question is regarding the new software-propoerteies frontend/backend split)
[09:59] <seb128> mvo, will you get ride of gksudo there?
[09:59] <seb128> dunno about if there is a naming convention, will let pitti or others reply ;-)
[10:00] <mvo> seb128: yeah, no more gksu there
[10:00] <mvo> seb128: plus better reflection of reality
[10:00] <seb128> \o/
[10:00] <mvo> :)
[10:00] <mvo> *but* lucnhtime ;)
[10:24] <pitti> didrocks: hm, unity-support-test says "no" in a guest session for me, in particilar "not software rendered: no"
[10:25] <didrocks> pitti: whereas it says "yes" in the main session?
[10:25] <pitti> right
[10:25]  * pitti tries another user account
[10:25] <didrocks> can be a Xauth capability with apparmor if it's only the guest session
[10:25] <didrocks> some similar issues happened twice in the natty cycle
[10:26] <pitti> whoops, I get the example-greeter crash
[10:26] <pitti> (even though I run unity-greeter by default)
[10:27] <seb128> pitti, see ;-)
[10:28] <seb128> pitti, is that specific to guest session or do you get it with a test user?
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: guest session works
[10:28] <pitti> freshly created test user crashes
[10:28] <seb128> weird
[10:28] <didrocks> pitti: you can try glxinfo | grep rendering btw, should give the same result (same X call) than the support test
[10:28] <pitti> and unity-2d doesn't respect my /usr/share/gconf/ubuntu-2d/default/zz_ubuntu-defaults-test overrides any more
[10:29] <pitti> didrocks: already tried that; it does say "direct rendering: Yes" in guest session
[10:29] <didrocks> hum, weird, we use the same flag, let me check
[10:29] <didrocks> pitti: right, the overrides are fix is "fix committed"
[10:30] <pitti> didrocks: you mean it doesn't read gconf any more right now?
[10:30] <pitti> so guest doesn't work with 3d; switching to test user is broken; unity-2d doesn't read gconf settings
[10:30] <didrocks> pitti: well, depends, if it fallbacks, it won't until we set the detection in lightdm itself. If you choose the session, the trigger wasn't… triggered
[10:31] <pitti> how am I supposed to test ubuntu-defaults-builder now? :-)
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, kvm for the win? ;-)
[10:31] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you mean I could explicitly set the default session to unity-2d?
[10:31] <didrocks> pitti: right, the other has never worked for default settings
[10:32] <didrocks> (fallbacking)
[10:32] <pitti> didrocks: hm, as it happened /usr/share/xsessions/default.desktop already pointed to ubuntu-2d.desktop
[10:32]  * pitti pokes this harder
[10:32] <didrocks> what is /usr/share/xsessions/default.desktop ?
[10:32] <didrocks> I should miss some updates, I don't have it there
[10:33] <pitti> I don't know where it's coming from
[10:33]  * pitti tries with lightdm.conf
[10:34] <pitti> oh! lightdm doesn't tear down the guest account
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: so you were saying if unity-2d is selected explicitly, the Xsession.d script should add some $XDG_something to make it pick up the gconf defaults?
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks, it's not a distro package, it's probably an hacking leftover for default session in gdm or something
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks, I've no such file installed either
[10:35] <didrocks> pitti: right
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: now, doesn't seem to work :(
[10:36] <didrocks> pitti: so env | grep GDMSESSION is showing unity-2d right?
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: which script is that? 70gconfd_path-on-session?
[10:36] <didrocks> pitti: indeed
[10:36] <didrocks> env | grep MANDATORY should add the new mandatory path
[10:36] <didrocks> show*
[10:37] <pitti> hm, now guest is broken, too
[10:37] <pitti> dear lightdm, you are nasty today
[10:38] <pitti> ok, giving up; logging out of my own session and trying ther, bbl
[10:38] <didrocks> /usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu-2d.desktop should enable adding /usr/share/gconf/ubuntu-2d.default.path
[10:44] <seb128> didrocks, pitti, rodrigo_, jasoncwarner_: sorry about the empty email I didn't update my evolution yet
[10:45] <rodrigo_> seb128, :)
[10:47] <Laney> morning
[10:47] <Laney> did we manage to get mono 2.0 stuff off the cd yet? :-)
[10:52] <Laney> livefs logs look good
[11:38] <nerd_bloke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/292203 has been marked as invalid against ppp, which project should it be assigned to for user creation with a usergroup membership?
[11:38] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 292203 in ppp "/usr/bin/pppd has group owner dip, not dialout" [Undecided,Invalid]
[12:12] <cyphermox> goooood morning!
[12:13] <pitti> hey cyphermox, how are you?
[12:13] <cyphermox> hey pitti, pretty good, you?
[12:13] <cyphermox> have you had time to take a look at my code? ;)
[12:13] <pitti> cyphermox: not yet, sorry; but it's high on my list
[12:13] <cyphermox> hehe
[12:21] <didrocks> good morning cyphermox
[12:21] <cyphermox> hey didrocks
[12:21]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[12:54] <kenvandine> good morning everyone
[12:55] <cyphermox> morning kenvandine
[12:55] <pitti> hey kenvandine, how are you? had a nice weekend?
[12:56] <kenvandine> good, too busy... ready for work :)
[12:56] <kenvandine> pitti, and you?
[12:57] <pitti> kenvandine: was nice as well; went to Dresden for my niece's wedding
[12:57] <kenvandine> cool
[13:01] <didrocks> seb128: FYI: bug #723861, what's your pick?
[13:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 723861 in ayatana-design "Right clicking on the desktop still displays the “Create Launcher...” option." [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723861
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, it calls a gnome-panel binary so it's broken in oneiric
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, ideally we would check for the binary to enable the menu entry
[13:03] <seb128> which would fix the default install case and make GNOME users still happy
[13:03] <didrocks> seb128: ideally, we would check for the binary and if unity is running
[13:03] <seb128> right
[13:03] <didrocks> seb128: should I take time for this non default case?
[13:04] <seb128> well I would not bother and just drop it adding a comment that it depends on a gnome-panel binary
[13:04] <didrocks> ok, dropping
[13:04] <seb128> users can as well install a "create a launcher" small program and run it
[13:04] <seb128> or use nautilus-script
[13:05] <didrocks> anyway, even showing the desktop isn't the case in fallback mode for upstream
[13:05] <seb128> right, it's really a corner case use
[13:05] <seb128> it doesn't really justify a context menu entry
[13:06] <lamalex> Sarvatt: i think im having that lightdm issue. any known fix? when i log in, it just hangs indefinitely
[13:06] <seb128> didrocks, you might want to open a bug upstream suggesting them to drop it ;-)
[13:06] <seb128> especially if they still call the gnome-panel binary
[13:07] <didrocks> seb128: hum, won't they tell "well, let's drop nautilus showing the desktop?" :-) but yeah, I can try
[13:08] <charlie-tca> didrocks: Are we going to be able to get the fix for bug 804734 into oneiric soon?
[13:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804734 in xorg "Please ship 60xdg_path-on-session like gdm" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804734
[13:09] <didrocks> charlie-tca: it's fix committed. Next time x11-common is uploaded, which is up to the xork guys
[13:09] <didrocks> xorg*
[13:10] <charlie-tca> okay, who do I need to talk to to get that done, then?
[13:10] <lamalex> didrocks: seb128 do you guys know anything about this lightdm bug?
[13:10] <charlie-tca> This is holding my images up from working
[13:10] <seb128> lamalex, no
[13:11] <didrocks> charlie-tca: maybe ask on #ubuntu-x I would say
[13:11] <charlie-tca> Thanlk you
[13:11] <didrocks> yw
[13:11] <charlie-tca> thank you, even
[13:12] <lamalex> is robertancell on holiday?
[13:14] <seb128> no
[13:14] <seb128> he's living on .au
[13:14] <seb128> like it's almost midnight for him at the moment
[13:18] <bigon> seb128: around?
[13:18] <seb128> bigon, yes
[13:19] <bigon> seb128: did you saw that there is a patch that fix FTBFS of tp-glib in ubuntu
[13:19] <bigon> ?
[13:19] <seb128> bigon, yes but I will let infinity deal with it, he did the update and opened an upstream bug
[13:19] <seb128> he's likely on it
[13:20] <bigon> k
[13:33]  * Sweetshark uploads a shiny new 3.4.X libreoffice package.
[13:33] <Sweetshark> Icanhazbeowulfclusterofbuildd?
[13:39] <pitti> heh
[13:39] <pitti> nice!
[13:47] <lamalex> oh my god how do i change my layout options with the new gnome 3 control center
[13:48] <lamalex> my caps lock is a caps lock and it's freaking me out, man
[13:52] <seb128> gnome-control-center region, layout tab, options
[13:52] <seb128> though I think that's being dropped in 3.2
[14:06] <mterry> pitti, what was wrong with sunpinyin that we reverted it?
[14:16] <pitti> mterry: it's too big; I thought that pinyin was 15 MB, but it's only 1.5 (due to the explicitly seeded -android-db)
[14:17] <pitti> mterry: sunpinyin is 19 MB, there's just no way we can make it fit; we'll add it to the Chinese image instead
[14:17] <pitti> mterry: and language-selector now pulls it in dynamically
[14:17] <mterry> pitti, cool
[14:22] <seb128> hum
[14:23] <seb128> pitti, were you in discussion where it was decided that suspend and hibernate would not be turned on as available by default, only on certified systems?
[14:23] <seb128> that seems a bit crazy
[14:23] <seb128> suspends work on most laptop usually
[14:23] <pitti> erm, what?
[14:23] <seb128> or is that a design,dx decision?
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Power
[14:24] <pitti> I've heard about wishes to disable hibernate, but even the OEM team said that they want it on
[14:24] <pitti> disabling suspend sounds crazy to me
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, well "having an ui to turn it on but not checked by default"
[14:24] <pitti> if it really doesn't work on a particular machine, well, "don't do that then"
[14:24] <seb128> c.f that wiki
[14:24] <pitti> but it works fine in most cases
[14:27] <seb128> right
[14:50] <seb128> vuntz, so, how is that wnck naming thinking going? ;-)
[15:01] <bryceh> I've got a couple baby doctor appointments, but will be back in ~3 hrs
[15:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, how is the goa packaging going?
[15:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you need reviews or help for it?
[15:30] <pitti> good night everyone!
[15:32] <seb128> 'night pitti
[15:32] <didrocks> good night pitti
[15:35] <micahg> pitti: re gnome-shell fix>thanks, I meant to fwd it after I verified it broken in Debian
[15:44] <AlfE1> hello
[15:45] <AlfE1> where does network manager store the vpn logs?
[15:46] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, almost done, will probably ask for a review tomorrow
[15:47] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok
[15:57] <cyphermox> AlfE1: you'll want to look at /var/log/sys
[15:57] <cyphermox> */var/log/syslog
[15:58] <cyphermox> AlfE1: that said, please go to #ubuntu if you have questions to ask about how to use, or running into problems with using, NM and others; #ubuntu-desktop is a development channel to discuss the development of the Ubuntu Desktop; #ubuntu is the support channel.
[15:59] <cyphermox> didrocks: still around? did you have time to look at the vpnc/network-manager-vpnc mirs?
[16:01] <didrocks> cyphermox: sure
[16:01] <didrocks> cyphermox: so, not seeded, isn't it?
[16:01] <cyphermox> didrocks: no
[16:08] <seb128> re
[16:08] <mvo> if someone is keen to play (and fix ;) with the dbus-ified software-properties, its at lp:~mvo/software-properties/updates-redesign
[16:08] <seb128> mvo, mterry: update-notifier notifies me about updates, reboot required, apport issues, etc since I update, is that normal behaviour or a bug in the gsettings update?
[16:09] <seb128> it's confusing because the notification say to click on the notification icon but we have none
[16:09] <seb128>
[16:09] <seb128> bah, evolution still fails to display the debian-devel-changes emails
[16:09] <seb128> but at least it sends non empty emails now ;-)
[16:17] <mterry> seb128, hrm, I haven't seen that myself.  Could be a bug in gsettings...  What does your dconf-editor show in com.canonical.update-notifier?
[16:18] <seb128> mterry, com.ubuntu you mean I guess?
[16:18] <mterry> seb128, nope, canonical
[16:18] <seb128> com.ubuntu.update-notifier false
[16:18] <seb128> mterry, there is no canonical
[16:18] <mterry> hmm....
[16:19] <mterry> maybe mvo changed my merge
[16:19] <seb128> mterry, I think mvo changed the namespace when he merged it
[16:19]  * mterry thinks we need a clear policy on such things
[16:19] <mterry> It's a Canonical CA project...
[16:19] <seb128> yeah, same here
[16:19] <seb128> dunno why he changed it
[16:20] <didrocks> cyphermox: there are some direct call for vpnc to system($Var_from_config_file), I don't really like that, I asked the security team to do a review
[16:20] <seb128>     <key name="no-show-notifications" type="b">
[16:20] <seb128>       <default>false</default>
[16:20] <seb128>       <summary>Stop showing update notifications</summary>
[16:20] <seb128> mterry, mvo: so yeah, default is to display notifications it seems
[16:20] <mterry> seb128, I have that as false too, but I haven't seen notifications
[16:20] <mterry> seb128, I don't believe that was changed
[16:21]  * mterry looks at merge again
[16:21] <cyphermox> didrocks: ok, thanks
[16:21] <seb128> mterry, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-notifier/ubuntu/revision/632 btw
[16:22] <didrocks> cyphermox: network-manager-vpnc seems ok, but waiting on the other one :)
[16:24] <cyphermox> sure, that's fine
[16:24] <seb128> mterry, seems like no_show_notifications was not in the schemas before?
[16:27] <mterry> seb128, true, it was a secret pref.  but undeclared bool prefs in gconf default to false
[16:28] <mterry> It does seem like the culprit though...
[16:29] <seb128> maybe I had tweaked values for those
[16:29] <seb128> but I'm pretty sure we didn't display notifications by default since we autospawn update-manager
[16:30] <seb128> same for the reboot, we change the indicator to indicate a restart is required
[16:32] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: seems I don't get again the "no notification until clicking on folder" after checking on each folder the box you pointed me at. That's weird it wasn't the case everywhere though
[16:33] <mterry> seb128, does dconf-editor show that you have auto-launch enabled?
[16:33] <mterry> seb128, the code skips the reboot notification if so
[16:34] <seb128> it's enabled yes and that seems the default
[16:34] <seb128> mterry, don't bother about it, thanks for looking at it
[16:34] <seb128> I wonder if that was an upgrade thing
[16:34] <seb128> like update-notifier on gconf still running
[16:34] <seb128> but the gconf database went away under its feet
[16:34] <mterry> seb128, as long as no one else sees it, I guess we're fine
[16:35] <seb128> I've restarted my session and it seems to work fine now
[16:35] <seb128> so maybe it was the gconf instance still running with the gsettings one installed
[16:35] <seb128> we should perhaps restart it in the postinst or something
[16:35] <seb128> I will check with mvo
[16:36] <seb128> bah, dconf is a mess
[16:37] <seb128> the namespace use rather
[16:37] <seb128> the desktop.unity stuff should probably be moved
[16:38] <seb128> it's confusing to have apps. desktop. and then com. and org
[16:43] <czajkowski> kenvandine: ello ello you about
[16:45] <kenvandine> hey czajkowski
[16:46] <czajkowski> kenvandine: guess what :)
[16:46] <kenvandine> gwibber bug :)
[16:46] <czajkowski> yup latest update makes it crash on start up
[16:46] <czajkowski> just when gwibber and I were getting on
[16:46] <kenvandine> on oneiric?
[16:47] <czajkowski> works on fine my mini 9 2d unity.
[16:47] <czajkowski> dear gods no, natty. not brave yet for oneiric
[16:47] <kenvandine> it didn't change on natty....
[16:47] <kenvandine> oh, do you have it from a ppa?
[16:47] <czajkowski> no...
[16:48] <kenvandine> apt-cache policy gwibber
[16:48] <kenvandine> just to make sure :)
[16:48] <czajkowski> Installed: <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3
[16:48] <czajkowski>   Candidate: <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3
[16:48] <czajkowski>   Version table:
[16:48] <czajkowski>  *** <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu3 0
[16:48] <czajkowski>         500 http://ubuntu.datahop.net/ubuntu/ natty-updates/main i386 Packages
[16:48] <czajkowski>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[16:49] <czajkowski>      <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu2 0
[16:49] <czajkowski>         500 http://ubuntu.datahop.net/ubuntu/ natty/main i386 Packages
[16:49] <kenvandine> ok
[16:49] <kenvandine> i wonder what changed
[16:50] <kenvandine> killall -9 gwibber-service; gwibber-service -d -o
[16:50] <kenvandine> then run the client again
[16:53] <czajkowski> ok
[16:53] <czajkowski> dear gwibber, please start :(
[16:54] <czajkowski> kenvandine: it crashes and report comes up to send in bug
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok, send the bug please
[16:55] <czajkowski> will do
[16:55] <kenvandine> czajkowski, ping me with the bug number
[16:55] <czajkowski> pretty sure gwibber and this machine just don't want to work
[16:58] <czajkowski> kenvandine: thanks
[16:58] <czajkowski> kenvandine: I promise one day to ask you about a non gwibber bug!
[16:59] <kenvandine> hehe :)
[16:59] <kenvandine> sure...
[16:59] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/812414
[16:59] <ubot2> czajkowski: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x8d65a2c> bug 812414 not found
[17:00] <kenvandine> czajkowski, please also attach the log file
[17:00] <kenvandine> ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
[17:03] <czajkowski> kenvandine: Thank you
[17:04] <didrocks> have a good evening everyone
[17:53] <seb128> kenvandine, you should clean gwibber merge requests one day ;-)
[17:53] <seb128> there is a stack of those sitting there
[18:09] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah... i know
[20:42] <mterry> tedg, heyo, want to have a chat about ubuntu-local?
[20:42] <mterry> The menubar property, that is
[20:44] <tedg> mterry, Sure
[20:45] <mterry> tedg, so, the intention is that it's an opt-out for 3rd parties of appmenu-gtk in case they have a non-main menubar hanging around, right?
[20:46] <mterry> tedg, or is it an internal implementation detail?
[20:46] <tedg> mterry, Or if they don't want their menu bar shown.
[20:46] <tedg> mterry, More a universal opt-out
[20:46] <mterry> tedg, well, it's more targeted than 'universal'.  I'm talking about the per-menubar property 'ubuntu-local'
[20:47] <tedg> mterry, Yes, I realize.  But the idea was that app developers could put that on all their menu bars if they wanted.
[20:47] <mterry> tedg, I see
[20:48] <mterry> tedg, well, freeciv hit a bug where non-main menubars weren't showing up.  One solution would have been to set ubuntu-local.  But that didn't work, because if they opened a submenu on it, the menubar disappeared again
[20:48] <mterry> tedg, I've tracked that down as an overzealous mirroring of the 'show-local' proxy property into menubars' 'ubuntu-local' properties by appmenu-gtk
[20:49] <mterry> Or rather, overzealous setting of 'show-local' by appmenu-gtk.  GTK+ itself does the mirroring
[20:49] <tedg> Ah, hmm.  Interesting.
[20:52] <tedg> mterry, Uhg, sorry if missed something.  Focus issues and using Ctrl+W
[20:52] <mterry> tedg, you may have missed "Or rather, overzealous setting of 'show-local' by appmenu-gtk.  GTK+ itself does the mirroring".  So the quick fix is to not set show-local to the same value it already holds (which prevents constant setting of show-local and thus constant mirroring to ubuntu-local).  But I feel like there are still legitimate times when show-local will be set and the user-provided value in ubuntu-local will be overwritten.  Is there
[20:52] <mterry> a good way to help this situation?
[20:53] <mterry> We could introduce a third variable, 'ubuntu-local-internal' which considers the value of show-local and ubuntu-local....
[20:54] <tedg> mterry, Is there a reason to cache it?  I mean, just have a macro to pull the two together?
[20:56] <mterry> tedg, sure, that's true.  We could stop mirroring in GTK+ and just have the menubar look at both
[20:56] <tedg> mterry, Seems simpler to me.  what do you think?
[20:56] <mterry> tedg, sure, I'll work on a patch tomorrow
[20:57] <tedg> Great, thanks mterry!
[21:42] <RoAkSoAx> [6~win 16
[22:42] <AlfE1> thanks to cyphermox, but I didn't got a reply on #ubuntu, so i tried here
[23:34] <ronoc> TheMuso, hey
[23:34] <TheMuso> ronoc: Hi.
[23:35] <ronoc> TheMuso, Have you noticed pavucontrol crashes on startup
[23:35] <ronoc> its looking for some xml file that isn't there
[23:35] <TheMuso> ronoc: No, I haven't/don't use it.
[23:35] <ronoc> okay ill have a look
[23:35] <TheMuso> ah ok
[23:35] <ronoc> TheMuso, good night