[05:41] <didrocks> infinity: hey, do you have any idea when the SRU will be review for the unity stack in raring?
[05:41] <didrocks> infinity: I hope we can finally get those netbook for who unity is not working fixed, as the fix was ready for a month and half
[09:31] <Laney> I thought we had a chat about DIF at the vUDS session
[09:32] <cjwatson> Guess I could go and review the video
[09:32] <Laney> already loading it up
[09:32] <cjwatson> Be my guest :)
[09:33] <Laney> if I can bear to see myself on video, that is
[09:34] <Laney> oh no, that's the one I missed :-)
[09:39] <Laney> cjwatson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re9HfnTifaY&feature=player_embedded - the two of you discussing decided-ish on week 12 but pending an ubuntu-release discussion
[09:39] <Laney> guess that is this
[09:39] <xnox> Laney: can you give that link with minute/second offset ?
[09:39] <Laney> 10:30
[09:40] <cjwatson> k, I shall refrain from enduring listening to myself since you have kindly summarised
[09:40] <Laney> the discussion starts at 06:30
[09:40] <Laney> xnox: I don't know how
[09:40] <xnox> Laney: click share tab, tick start at: http://youtu.be/Re9HfnTifaY?t=6m30s
[09:40] <cjwatson> (mental self-image of voice does not have the same accent or pitch as actual voice)
[09:40] <xnox> there you go, even using youtu.be short url.
[09:40] <Laney> my hero
[09:41] <xnox> cjwatson: the actual voice sounds better than mental self-image of voice?! right?!
[09:42] <cjwatson> god no
[09:42] <Laney> never does
[09:43]  * Laney has a sexy radio 4 continuity announcer style voice
[09:43] <Laney> right guys?
[09:43]  * xnox must sound hideous then, since i don't like the mental projection of mine much.....
[09:44] <xnox> Laney: you don't speak much anyways =))))))
[09:44] <Laney> righto :P
[09:45]  * xnox wants the voice of danny o'donoghue
[09:46] <Laney> anyway
[09:46] <Laney> 12 or 13 would be fine by me
[10:23] <sil2100> Hi!
[10:23] <sil2100> Is there anyone from the SRU team around?
[10:23] <seb128> sil2100, you better state your question than wait for an answer to that ;-)
[10:25] <sil2100> So, Brandon prepared some unity+nux fixes for those bugs for raring: LP: #983254, LP: #1043627, LP: #1112044
[10:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 983254 in Unity 5.0 "Support input methods beside ibus" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/983254
[10:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1043627 in Nux 2.0 "Add XIM Support to Nux" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043627
[10:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1112044 in Nux 2.0 "Fcitx can't input word group more than 6 Chinese characters in Dash. Causes a crash if entering to many characters." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1112044
[10:26] <sil2100> It's hard to say if those are bugs or features, so I wanted to get a confirmation if those are SRUable - the priority for those is rather high, as it affects many asian-language countries
[10:26] <sil2100> The fixes are ready, reviewed and waiting to get merged
[11:57] <sil2100> cjwatson: hi! Maybe you would have a moment to give a quick look and comment? ;) ^
[12:04] <cjwatson> I think it'd be better to be somebody with more desktop clue than I do
[12:59] <stgraber> cjwatson: [cjwatson] suggest moving DIF to week 12 (18 July) on -release
[13:01] <cjwatson> Either week 12 or 13 is fine by me, don't feel strongly
[13:02] <cjwatson> But thanks for the reminder :)
[13:04] <xnox> cjwatson: week 13 sounds better, as it will be Alpha2 again, just like in raring. That's like two releases in a row ;-)
[13:05] <xnox> (as if that's any kind of an argument for week 13 vs week 12)
[20:59] <TheDrums> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule has a header of "Do not edit", but it seems you've moved DIF, mind updating there or if I do?
[21:05] <stgraber> TheDrums: I was assuming cjwatson would do it once his "complain now or I'll move it" deadline is passed (Tuesday IIRC)
[21:05] <TheDrums> Cool, I'll shutup. :)
[21:30] <infinity> TheDrums: That's sort if why it has the "do not edit" header, so people don't randomly change things without concensus, or mistake a discussion for a decision. :)
[21:30] <TheDrums> (I wouldn't have edited it anyway, just an excuse to ask about it in here.)
[21:32] <Trevinho> Laney: still here?
[22:27] <infinity> autopkgtest for eglibc 2.17-0ubuntu5: RUNNING
[22:27] <infinity> autopkgtest for linux <IP_ADDRESS>.8: RUNNING
[22:27] <infinity> ^-- Why do I have a feeling that's going to take a Very Long Time?
[22:34] <cjwatson> Spare a thought for glib2.0
[22:34] <cjwatson> autopkgtest for firefox 22.0~b6+build1-0ubuntu1: RUNNING
[22:34] <cjwatson> autopkgtest for libreoffice 1:4.0.2-0ubuntu5: RUNNING
[22:34] <cjwatson> autopkgtest for pango1.0 1.32.5-5ubuntu1: RUNNING
[22:34] <cjwatson> autopkgtest for ubiquity 2.15.7: RUNNING
[22:42] <infinity> cjwatson: So, out of curiosity, do we even have remotely enough resources to run all these tests before tomorrow? :)
[22:43]  * infinity wonders how beefy jibel's infrastructure is.
[22:47] <ScottK> Sounds like rather a personal question.
[22:47] <infinity> ScottK: There's a reason I avoided the word "equipment".
[22:48] <cjwatson> I guess we'll find out
[22:48] <cjwatson> Given how many times management has asked me about this work I expect I might have some leverage if it turns out to be prohibitively expensive
[22:50] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah.  It just stands to reason that, as test coverage increases (or for awful rdep cases like glibc and glib), the autopkgtest QA will take orders of magnitude longer than the actual builds do.
[22:50] <infinity> cjwatson: So, if that can be parallelised out very, very well, yay, but it could take a whole lot of machines.
[22:50] <infinity> (Or, we have to pare down some of the scarier rdep trees)
[22:51] <cjwatson> Well, as I've said, there are always force-autopkgtest hints in special cases if need be.
[22:51] <cjwatson> But, yes, I expect the rdep analysis may need to get a bit subtler.
[22:51] <infinity> Yeah, but I want to avoid using those as a general rule.
[22:51] <cjwatson> I had the impression there were quite a few Jenkins slaves, but I don't know the details.
[22:52] <infinity> Well, hopefully we're keeping some stats (or just a decent request/response logfile) so we can do some analysis later.
[22:53] <cjwatson> Not in a very pleasant form, but it's mostly logged.  I was going to clean that up a bit soon.
[22:53]  * infinity wonders if he should brave the outside world for food, or if it's better to avoid being dragged away in a flood, and just find something in his house.
[22:53] <cjwatson> Right now I'm in one-more-upload-then-bed mode though ...
[22:53] <infinity> cjwatson: Pleasntness is less important than in/out timestamps. :)
[22:53] <infinity> cjwatson: Computers are awfully good at reading files I can't make sense of.
[22:54] <cjwatson> I'm not totally sure the results are properly logged other than in excuses.  I'll check next time I'm in there.
[22:54] <infinity> With the exception of the Canterbury Tales.
[22:54] <cjwatson> Did I ever tell you about my stepson's experience with the Canterbury Tales when he was little?
[22:55] <cjwatson> He had recently learned how to read and was doing fairly well
[22:56] <cjwatson> Then he came in one evening holding a book, quite upset, saying "mummy, I've forgotten how to read"
[22:56] <cjwatson> ... it was Chaucer
[22:56] <infinity> Hah.
[22:56] <infinity> Well, time to teach him some Middle English.
[22:56] <infinity> Mine is pretty piss-poor these days.
[22:56] <infinity> I used to be passably alright.
[22:57] <cjwatson> Given some of the Tales it's probably best for them to be encoded in a child-safe form. :-)
[22:57] <infinity> Meh, they're not THAT raunchy, really.
[22:57] <infinity> And at least they're well-written.
[22:57]  * cjwatson reads about the floods.  Yikes.  Bring stilts?
[22:57] <infinity> God forbid children stumble on literary abortions like 50 Shades.
[22:58] <infinity> Not because of the content, but because it would teach them some terrible style and grammar.
[22:59] <infinity> I highly recommend "Mark Reads 50 Shades" (youtube search it, I'm not going to link it), for work background noise.
[22:59] <cjwatson> I've so far avoided the source material.
[23:00] <infinity> Well done.  But Mark Reads is a whole different story.
[23:00] <infinity> In fact, nearly any of his segments are good, but the 50 Shades one is great just to get a feel for how awful the source material really is.
[23:01] <infinity> Like, the author ending narrative sentences in ", or something."
[23:02] <cjwatson> I've read a few fairly blistering written criticisms/satires of it.
[23:02] <cjwatson> But, yeah, fanfic goes straight to publication without the benefit of a whole lot of editing in between, I gather
[23:03] <infinity> My ex made the mistake of reading it and spent several DAYS complaining to me about how awful it was.
[23:56] <Laney> Does proposed-migration/autopkgtest require the test to succeed or to not go from successful→failure?
[23:56]  * Laney is concerned about the LO autopkgtest ...


[00:03] <Greybeard> you say video is working
[00:26] <Stemming78> Greybeard: not really....  still trying to figure it out....  Currently working without "Restricted Drivers" so I can have video, but need to get the "correct driver" installed.  Get a black screen when "drivers" are enabled....   Geforce 7600GT
[00:27] <laga> my 7600GS works well
[00:28] <Greybeard> I have a GeForce 7900GS that works fine with the nvidia proprietary driver I installed using Ubuntu's driver manage
[00:28] <Greybeard> manager
[00:29] <Stemming78> I was installing the driver at installation....  After bootup the video would go blank.  Suppose I needed to have enabled it using MCC and not during installation?
[00:31] <laga> try it ;)
[00:31] <laga> without logs, it's hard to tell
[00:33] <Stemming78> Thanks guys...  Trying it now;  was thinking there was a driver issue - now it is looking like user error
[00:34] <laga> well if it doesnt work in the installer it's still a bug
[00:34] <Stemming78> Ok, I enableed "pripiotory driver" and am getting the blank screen....  HELP
[00:36] <laga> in MCC?
[00:37] <Stemming78> False Alarm....  Oops...  Getting video on the VGA port.  Wasnt working DVI
[00:38] <Stemming78> laga:  What is the correct way to enable Component Video with 1080p resoution?
[00:40] <laga> no clue, i don't use component
[00:40] <laga> try nvidia-settings
[00:41] <Stemming78> thanks...
[00:44] <Stemming78> Not pulling channels....  What is the proper setting for cable TV?  cable-us?
[00:45] <Stemming78> sorry, havent had an installation in quite some time now----   rusty
[00:48] <Stemming78> nevermind - had a disconnected cable....   *sigh
[00:49] <Greybeard> yeah, nvidia-settings is the easiest way to configure the nvidia driver, either dynamically, or it can edit the xorg.conf
[01:25] <Stemming78> Anyone able to help create an xorg.conf file for me.  Having problems with nvidia-settings.
[01:25] <Stemming78> Wanting to have Component at 1080p resolution
[01:28] <Stemming78> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/d7c326d37
[02:07] <ajhtiredwolf> Hey I thave mythtv installed and working however, the way the audio works on my capture card is, i have a wire going from the audio out of the Tv-card, to the microphone jack of my sound card (audigy2) how do i configure myth to use the microhpone as the audio source?
[02:15] <Greybeard> Installing and using MythTV: Troubleshooting. <http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html#Troubleshooting_Audio>
[02:33] <Stemming78> Needing help; Trying to get 1080p output via COMPONENT connection....  GeForce 7600GT card
[02:37] <Stemming78> bump
[03:13] <Stemming78> please help!!!!  Have component out working, but I dont think I have the xorg.conf setup properly; choppy with DPI loss....  Thinking it is running in "low resolution".
[03:14] <Stemming78> Here is the XORG.CONIF file I am using....  http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/d1e6ebcda
[05:41] <sabhain> does ubuntu have an "msec" like security utility to verify file permissions on a nightly / weekly basis?
[05:45] <sabhain> something like madriva(ake)'s msec?
[05:49] <superm1> bastille
[05:49] <superm1> that's the closest i think
[05:49] <superm1> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2005-October/000102.html
[05:49] <superm1> which is available for hardy
[05:50] <superm1> not really appropriate discussion for #ubuntu-mythtv though, you're probably better off in #ubuntu-hardened or #ubuntu-security in the future
[05:52] <sabhain> thanks for the tip .. just what I was looking for .. wanted a simple answer from users, rather than the server super admin types ..
[05:52] <sabhain> appreciate the response
[05:52] <superm1> !google sabhain
[05:52] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about google sabhain
[05:52] <superm1> oh that was supposed to be
[05:52] <superm1> !google | sabhain
[05:52] <Zinn> sabhain: This seems like a question that you probably could have solved by looking the first few results from a Google search.  Try to make sure to do the appropriate research before asking a question ( http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/ )
[05:52] <superm1> in the future :)
[05:53] <sabhain> found a few old projects .. but hadn't found bastille yet
[05:53] <superm1> that was the second hit i saw on a search
[05:53] <sabhain> lots of msec = millisecond stuff ..
[05:53] <superm1> ah yeah
[05:54] <superm1> i put msec ubuntu in my search, so probably why i turned out a little better
[05:55] <Zar> Hi. I'm new to Linux and I'm having a hard time to configure MythTV. The software recognize my tv card (a PCTV Stereo saa7134) which is supposed to work with v4l, but when I click "watch TV" nothing happens. Any idea how to properly configure this card?
[05:55] <sabhain> quick trigger finger on the bot message .. superml .. thanks for the input
[05:56] <sabhain> Zar, have you configured your cards and made input connections between the card & sources?
[05:58] <Zar> I sabhain, I have a cable tv setup box, so I had to pre-configure the channel for number 3 but I didn't make any connection with sources. The source is the EPG listing right?
[05:59] <sabhain> I havent done a STB setup yet, but with all my tuner cards, I needed to setup listings (sources) and then connect them to the inputs before live TV would work ..
[06:00] <sabhain> just get through all ?5? steps of the setup I think
[06:00] <Zar> does it work if I use US listings? I live in Brazil.
[06:01] <Zar> I also did a channel scam, but all results were "no signal"
[06:01] <Zar> oops, scan not scam
[06:02] <sabhain> not sure about that .. does schedules direct not have brazil local listings?
[06:02] <Zar> probably not, but I will try this
[06:04] <Zar> does it have an option to manually input a xmltv file?
[06:04] <sabhain> not sure
[06:04] <Zar> what if I use the option "no grabber"?
[06:06] <Zar> This is driving me crazy. I want to get rid of Windows once for all, but I need my tv :-(
[06:08] <sabhain> mythbuntu is worth the effort
[06:10] <Zar> Yep, it does. What does not is the quality of the cable TV in my country. I can watch "Legally Blonde" anymore :-)
[06:11] <Zar> oops, I mean I can't
[06:11] <Zar> sorry, English is not my first language
[06:14] <sabhain> it's way better than my Portuguese
[06:15] <Zar> :-) where do you live?
[06:20] <Zar> let me ask something a little bit off-topic...do you know a Firewall better than Firestarter? On Windows I use Comodo, which is superb and let control every application, port and IP's. Firestarter looks too simple and kind of unreliable.
[06:22] <tgm4883_laptop> iptables
[06:23] <Zar> iptables looks scary :-)
[06:23] <tgm4883_laptop> i guess
[06:24] <Zar> don't forget I'm a Windows user for about 15 years :-)
[06:24] <Tuv0k> unreliable, ha
[06:25] <Tuv0k> aren't we all in one way or the other
[06:25] <Tuv0k> webmin will allow controll of iptables
[06:25] <Tuv0k> may frontends to iptables
[06:25] <Tuv0k> many
[06:26] <Zar> what I can see is that all of them are just frontends to iptables right?
[06:26] <Tuv0k> a google search will provide many results for firewall builders
[06:26] <Tuv0k> right
[06:27] <Zar> firewall builders means tools that create iptable rules?
[06:27] <Tuv0k> yes
[06:27] <Zar> so, I gues they are all reliable :-)
[06:27] <Zar> guess
[06:27] <Tuv0k> yes:)
[06:28] <Zar> the problem is dummy user creating the iptable rules :-)
[06:28] <Tuv0k> I use firestarter. At first I did not want to. But its strength is its simplicity.
[06:28] <Tuv0k> Firestarter is fine for a new user. Or any user besides one who wishes to edit iptables by hand.
[06:29] <Zar> is it possible to configure the iptables based on applications?
[06:30] <Zar> Firestarter seems to allow ports or Ip's only
[06:30] <Tuv0k> "seems"
[06:31] <Tuv0k> start the application and attempt to use it...
[06:31] <Zar> sorry, English issues. I meant looks like or something like that
[06:31] <Tuv0k> you'll find that firestarter shows it in the activity window
[06:31] <Tuv0k> then you may right click it's line, and block or allow that port
[06:31] <Zar> Thanks. BTW, no signal on tv channel scan
[06:31] <Tuv0k> no, I know what you meant
[06:32] <Tuv0k> don't scan for channels
[06:32] <Tuv0k> use fetch
[06:32] <Zar> fetch from sources?
[06:32] <Tuv0k> yes
[06:32] <Zar> but I live in Brazil
[06:32] <Tuv0k> thats fine
[06:32] <Tuv0k> but thats the way to get your channels
[06:33] <Zar> I would like to fetch from a xmltv file on local drive, is it possible?
[06:33] <Tuv0k> funny you from Brazil, I'm listening to spanish learning cds right now. I know, Brazil speaks Portuguese
[06:33] <Tuv0k> never done that before, I use Schedules Direct
[06:34] <Zar> :-) yeah, some people think we speak Spanish. Is quite similar. I can understand Spanish, but can't speak.
[06:34] <Tuv0k> I want to come to Brazil
[06:34] <Tuv0k> bad
[06:34] <Zar> why?
[06:34] <Tuv0k> :)
[06:35] <Tuv0k> The most beautiful women in the world:)
[06:35] <Zar> did you ever see Simpsons?
[06:35] <Tuv0k> love Simpsons
[06:35] <Zar> Oh yeah, they are :-)
[06:35] <Tuv0k> tell me about it....
[06:36] <Tuv0k> I have to work on my Portuguese next
[06:36] <Zar> Lisa think this country is like a garbage dump site :-)
[06:36] <Tuv0k> oh
[06:36] <Tuv0k> I must have missed that episode
[06:37] <Zar> Do you believe that FOX translated that episode and cut off the line joking about our country?
[06:38] <Zar> Unfortunately, they forgot that people now about BitTorrent and a few hours after the broadcastingm both versions were on YouTube criticizing the censorship.
[06:39] <Zar> They had to publicly apologize
[06:40] <Zar> if you dub the bad stuff the Simpsons say it is better to not show it at all :-)
[06:41] <Tuv0k> wow
[06:41] <Tuv0k> I had no idea that went on
[06:42] <Zar> I personally don't watch it. I prefer something like BSG
[06:46] <Zar> When you hit fetch channels does something happen immediately or you have to hit next?
[06:47] <sabhain> for me there was a delay and then it allowed me to hit next .. small delay (15 - 30 sec)
[06:52] <Zar> OK, now I get a green screen, which is better than the black screen of TVTime and better than no screen at all :-)
[06:53] <Zar> does it mean the card is working but the feed is oit?
[06:53] <Zar> out...
[06:57] <Zar> the program is recording th green scree. I guess this is a good sign too...
[06:57] <liri> even though I installed the nvidia-glx driver for my geforce2 mx/mx400 tvout video card - I do have tv-out functionality but nvidia complains about "low graphics" and I think it's loading up the vesa driver instead.
[07:07] <Zar> wow, this program is way much better than Windows Media Center. I isn't working yet, but if it does.....
[07:28] <Zar> thank you all. I will get some sleep now and will be back tomorrow.
[07:32] <dwfstarband> hi, i forget who i was talking to the other day, but i was trying to figure out how to browse the share folder on my backend from the mplayer port on my wii, has anybody played with this and figured it out?
[09:33] <stevetv> hi
[09:34] <stevetv> im hoping to ask about streaming apple trailers
[17:10] <Shadow__x> what kernel does 8.10 have
[17:23] <superm1> 2.6.26
[17:23] <Shadow__x> hmm nice
[17:24] <Shadow__x> that would def fix my hvr-1800 issue
[17:24] <Shadow__x> cant wait for me to beable to upgrade to that
[17:24] <Shadow__x> hey superm1 how are ya today
[17:24] <superm1> Shadow__x, so so.  not too exciting a day as of yet
[17:25] <Shadow__x> ah
[17:25] <superm1> Shadow__x, well if you want to jump to 8.10 on a testing box, having an idea what's broke for us always helps
[17:25] <superm1> the earlier we know the better
[17:25] <Shadow__x> well i had to run a sep line not using my spliter to get my hvr 1600 qam to lock when my pinnacle pctv 800i and hvr 1800 used it no issue thats kinda exciting
[17:26] <Shadow__x> yeah i am thinking about doing that and testing with some stuff
[17:32] <sabhain> 8.10 pretty stable for me (1 core, 3FE's)
[17:33] <sabhain> only chasing things that I haven't had time yet to educate myself about
[17:33] <sabhain> correct that .. only one 8.10 .. others still 8.04
[17:36] <superm1> sabhain, great to hear.  anything that sticks out for you, missing firmware, remotes, broken pieces, please let us know :)
[17:39] <sabhain> nothing yet .. it really feels & performs a lot like when I first went to 8.04.  I don't use the diskless thing, so unfortunately I won't be able to test that .. stuck to thin client w/ NFS boot on my FE's
[17:39] <sabhain> I will report anything that does come up though ..
[17:40] <tgm4883_laptop> sabhain, how did you install?  From Ubuntu or from yesterdays iso?
[17:44] <sabhain> tgm4883_laptop, the iso
[18:09] <li__> even though I installed the nvidia driver (nvidia-glx) and made sure with lsmod that it is loaded I see in Xorg.0.log "(EE) failed to initialize GLX extension (compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)"
[18:11] <superm1> li__, make sure that's the right driver version for your card
[18:11] <li__> superm1: it is, nvidia-glx is for a GeForce2 MX/MX400
[18:12] <tgm4883_laptop> is it just me, or is this deja vu from yesterday?
[18:12] <superm1> well i'm wondering if nvidia perhaps isn't advertising properly what cards are supposed to be supported by that driver then
[18:12] <superm1> tgm4883_laptop, no its uv ajed
[18:45] <li__> I think the problem is that Xorg automatically detects the motherboard as being vesa compatible and loads that vesa driver
[19:00] <alexvd_> Hi are thier weekly builds of svn trunk for mythbuntu?
[19:00] <laga> yes, but mythplugins is not working yet
[19:01] <alexvd_> Also I am running a old release 7.10 and I have a very quirky issue.  My sound when in Mythvideo stops working for mplayer only.  Internal player works and recording etc.
[19:01] <alexvd_> Thanks laga.
[19:01] <alexvd_> On the sound issue i dont see anything in the logs and then all of a sudden it will work again
[19:02] <alexvd_> I cannot figure out what is the issue or how to fix.
[19:02] <alexvd_> I am outputting all audio via spdif and when it works it works well.  Any ideas???
[19:02] <laga> there are no trunk builds for 7.10
[19:03] <laga> try asking the mplayer people
[19:03] <alexvd_> Laga: i understand that. I am going to move to the latest release
[19:03] <jphillip> might be a good idea to upgrade at some point :)
[19:04] <alexvd_> upgrading all the time is not advisable. Its supposed to be like an appliance.  That being said I have hdpvr I am anxious to try
[19:04] <laga> then try mplayer again after upgrading ;)
[19:04] <jphillip> 8.10 releases in october so it might be worth your time to just wait for that instead of upgrading twice
[19:04] <jphillip> your call I guess
[19:04] <jphillip> double upgrade might be messy as well though
[19:04] <laga> i'd probably prefer a LTS release
[19:04] <Greybeard> well, mplayer won't change
[19:05] <laga> Greybeard: proof?
[19:05] <jphillip> 8.10 is gonna be lts, no?
[19:05] <Greybeard> mplayer should tell you what's wrong
[19:05] <laga> although LTS doesn't cover the LTS bits
[19:05] <laga> err
[19:05] <laga> although LTS doesn't cover the mythtv bits
[19:05] <laga> jphillip: no. 8.04 was LTS
[19:05] <alexvd_> I may just bite the bullet.  I have learned after 5 years a myth that I need to not touch it, if I want a happy wife and be able to watch tv
[19:05] <Greybeard> it's usually that it couldn't find an audio track or couldn't open the sound device
[19:05] <laga> it's just ever other release
[19:05] <laga> alexvd_: that's true
[19:06] <alexvd_> laga: believe me I know
[19:06] <jphillip> alexvd_ in theory as long as your backup your recordings and db all should be recoverable incase of a problem
[19:06] <alexvd_> jphillip: I was going to try the new script from Michael T Dean.  I need to migrate to some newer hardware.
[19:07] <alexvd_> really nervous to not lose my recordings and more importantly recording schedules
[19:08] <jphillip> alexvd_ the db contains pretty much everything, worst cause you can do a clean install, reload that and put your recordings back in place, and everything should be working then
[19:08] <Greybeard> always back up the db before a major change
[19:08] <Greybeard> but it is hard to go back once you've used a newer version for a while
[19:08] <alexvd_> Still nervous :)
[19:09] <alexvd_> If I screw up the TV and we cant watch the Olympics it will not be a fun house to be in
[19:09] <jphillip> you don't have to tell me
[19:09] <jphillip> I hear it whenever my wife misses her soap opera
[19:10] <laga> hum. now i need some overclocking to watch TV, but that'll make my box louder :(
[19:11] <alexvd_> I hope that in the future thier is an easier upgrade path.  Kinda of like in the enterprise where you do an upgrade and it saves the old image so that if you bork it you just reboot back to the old.  Something menu drive would be nice.  GUI for users = less damage
[19:11] <jphillip> laga HD?
[19:11] <laga> yes
[19:11] <jphillip> try XvMC?
[19:12] <laga> h264 wont work with xvmc :(
[19:12] <jphillip> I was able to make my 1900+ play HD over that, as long as it didn't do user jobs
[19:12] <jphillip> ah booo :(
[19:12] <Greybeard> yeah, it seems to me that XvMC is more trouble than it's worth
[19:12] <alexvd_> Laga: what is your processor. I have a dual core 3.2ghz , I am hoping that will do it
[19:12] <Greybeard> yeah, that's plenty
[19:12] <jphillip> Greybeard its nice, as long as it does what you need and you don'
[19:12] <jphillip> t need any more
[19:13] <Greybeard> well, I wasted time trying to get it working, but it never worked as well as ordinary XVIDEO
[19:13] <laga> hum. looks like my radeon card is not to blame for my playback problems. same thing happens with my geforce using the same display profile settings as on the radeon
[19:13] <alexvd_> Great.  So laga are you using the hdpvr
[19:13] <laga> no
[19:13] <Greybeard> what's the problem?
[19:13] <laga> alexvd_: i have a 1.86GHz core 2 duo
[19:13] <alexvd_> just watching downloads then?
[19:14] <laga> Greybeard: i don't know :) it's just a settings. it worked with a different set of settings
[19:14] <laga> alexvd_: no, HD in europe
[19:14] <Greybeard> yeah, i've wasted huge amounts of time finding the best settings
[19:15] <jphillip> laga coreavc help?
[19:15] <alexvd_> I still get tearing on my hdtv output.  I kinda gave and live with it.
[19:15] <jphillip> h264 is cpuintensive
[19:15] <Greybeard> but kernel deinterlacer with regular Xv displaying at 720p@60Hz seems the best for me
[19:15] <laga> jphillip: i am using coreavc. without it, mythfrontend would segfault - most likely because the stream gets corrupted due to reception problems
[19:15] <alexvd_> no xvmc, kernel deinterlacing,
[19:15] <jphillip> I've been unhappy with the deinterlacer on my new 1080p tv, looked good on the 720p before
[19:15] <jphillip> haven't gotten a chance to see what I can do about it
[19:16] <laga> the new greedyh and yahid deinterlacers were nice for SD on my SD tv ;)
[19:16] <alexvd_> greybeard: i still get tearing or artifacts watching 1080i videos with nvidia and the standard modeline
[19:16] <Greybeard> why deinterlace to display on an interlaced TV?
[19:16] <sabhain> alexvd_ have you tried the hdpvr yet with myth?
[19:16] <Greybeard> oddly, I haven't had trouble with tearing
[19:16] <Greybeard> I'm not sure why, since I've had trouble with lots of other things
[19:17] <Greybeard> I'm using the radeon driver BTW
[19:17] <alexvd_> I didnt when I used knoppmyth but then the driver changed with mythbuntu and I havent been able to fix.
[19:17] <jphillip> I honestly wonder if its more of a resource issue cause dvd's upconverted on it still look brilliant
[19:17] <alexvd_> sabhain: i have been waiting
[19:17] <laga> Greybeard: timing issues. if the timing is off just a little bit, you'll get tearing. (re: "deinterlacing on an interlaced TV")
[19:17] <Greybeard> oh
[19:18] <alexvd_> sabhain: i have two sitting in boxes, saw a post today saying to wait, and that its still not 100%
[19:18] <Greybeard> yeah, I've used the PVR-350 which avoids that problem, but I realize with a regular video card, it's a lot trickier
[19:18] <alexvd_> laga: so are you saying the unless you specify 59.94 or the exact proper modeline you will get tearing
[19:19] <Greybeard> I don't have that exactly and I don't have noticeable tearing
[19:19] <Greybeard> I think mine's 60Hz, but the 1080i recordings are 59.94
[19:20] <alexvd_> I tried various settings on my 1080i tv, but just use the standard modeline and I get issues.  720p oddly enough is very smooth but 1080 is the problem
[19:20] <laga> i'm in PAL country anyways ;)
[19:20] <alexvd_> laga: oh sorry your different
[19:20] <laga> alexvd_: i dont have any proof, but say you have a background task running which slows down the video drawing occasionally then it can go out of sync
[19:21] <laga> that's my explanation at least
[19:21] <laga> i never got good playback unless i used a patch to enable frame doubling deinterlacers on my interlaced display and used one of these
[19:21] <laga> then it was very smooth
[19:21] <alexvd_> laga: the box is an appliance only runs mythbuntu.  also its a 3.2ghz box.  wouldnt checking vsync fix that?
[19:22] <sabhain> alexvd_ are they still asking 250 USD for those?
[19:22] <stuporglue> Anyone else here using a Wiimote as their Myth remote?
[19:22] <alexvd_> sabhain: i forgot how much it costs. I think so.  I was so happy to finally record hd i didnt care what the price was.  I may buy two more if it works as advertised.
[19:23] <laga> alexvd_: i was only referring to my special setup. lots of things can affect that
[19:23] <laga> alexvd_: what driver do you use?
[19:24] <alexvd_> its the nvidia driver.  I have to look at the box.  I never upgraded the original 7.10 I think.  When I tried to upgrade i got issues with green boxes all over the place.
[19:25] <alexvd_> what is the command to get the driver info from the command line
[19:26] <jphillip> dpkg -l |grep nvidia
[19:26] <jphillip> should get you somethign
[19:26] <Greybeard> depends which part
[19:26] <jphillip> if it starts with ii its installed
[19:26] <Greybeard> there's both kernel and Xorg parts
[19:27] <alexvd_>  1:1.0.9639+<IP_ADDRESS>-14.9
[19:28] <Greybeard> there's information in /proc/driver/nvidia/
[19:28] <alexvd_> 9639 is way old I know
[19:28] <jphillip> 169.12+<IP_ADDRESS>-19.45
[19:29] <jphillip> appears to be the newest (for nvidia-new at least)
[19:29] <Greybeard> grep NVIDIA /var/log/Xorg.0.log will give you some info about the Xorg driver
[19:29] <alexvd_> yeah i need to upgrade. I am pretty sure that last time when i tried to upgrade to the glxnew it screwed up the output.  I had pink boxes and then green pixelation all over the screen
[19:30] <laga> yes, that was a known problem in gutsy AFAIK
[19:30] <alexvd_> If i upgrade using ubuntu restriced drivers is 169.12 the one that will be in the repository
[19:42] <MythbuntuGuest24> Hi there. I am having Problems playing DVDs an watching LiveTV in MythTV 8.04.1. I have a ATi Hd3650 Card. I've tried many Drivers. The Ati Driver in mythbuntu and the properitaire Ati Driver 8.1, 8.6 and 8.7. But i always have the same Problem that the Movie or TV freezes after a second. Xine works fine. Are there any configs i can change?
[19:43] <laga> is there anything in the logs?
[19:44] <MythbuntuGuest24> what log?
[19:45] <laga>  /var/log/mythtv/mythfrontend.log
[19:45] <Greybeard> you can increase the verbosity by adding "-v playback" to mythfrontend I think
[19:45] <Greybeard> for troubleshooting, you might want to start mythfrontend manually and see the output in the terminal
[19:46] <MythbuntuGuest24> i just installed new. What Driver should i use first?
[19:47] <Greybeard> which one did Ubuntu install?
[19:47] <MythbuntuGuest24> greybird, how should i do this? i am totally new to linux
[19:47] <Greybeard> well, it doesn't make much sense to ask which one you should install if you don't know what's already there
[19:50] <Greybeard> if you run jockey-gtk, it should tell you which driver is currently in use
[19:53] <MythbuntuGuest24> i installed 8.04.1 and starts the first time. so currently there is no special driver selected.
[19:54] <Greybeard> and MythTV won't play video at all?
[19:54] <MythbuntuGuest24> what should i use. the one with ubunut oder the driver from ati?
[19:54] <Greybeard> probably the one that's already there
[19:54] <Greybeard> I'm using the one from Ubuntu, though I have a different ATI card
[19:55] <MythbuntuGuest24> ok. therefor i have to activate the driver in the Hardware Drivers dialog, right?
[19:56] <MythbuntuGuest24> sorry for the question, but i dont want to make a mistake
[19:58] <Greybeard> if you can see something on the screen, some driver is working
[19:58] <Greybeard> you say Xine plays video fine, right?
[19:58] <MythbuntuGuest24> yes
[19:58] <Greybeard> then, whatever video problem you're having must be with MythTV
[19:59] <MythbuntuGuest24> thats wha i am here ;)
[19:59] <MythbuntuGuest24> why*
[19:59] <Greybeard> and that's why I suggested increasing the logging verbosity of mythfrontend so you can see if it's having trouble with something
[20:00] <MythbuntuGuest24> ok, so i first use the driver thats in the package. Then i post the log. thanks so far.
[20:00] <MythbuntuGuest24> p.s. how do i change my name?
[20:00] <Greybeard> it sounds like video is working
[20:00] <Greybeard> don't mess with that
[20:00] <Greybeard> which name?
[20:00] <Greybeard> in IRC?
[20:01] <MythbuntuGuest24> yes
[20:01] <laga>  /nick foo
[20:01] <MythbuntuGuest24> thanks
[20:01] <Greybeard> yeah, I'm not extremely fluent in IRC
[20:01] <laga> i've been using IRC for 8 years now
[20:01] <laga> about 8 years i guess, yeah
[20:03] <Ragamuffin76> on more question. Should i do all the updates in the update manager?
[20:04] <Greybeard> that's usually a good idea
[20:24] <Ragamuffin76> It works. I dont know why, but it works. The only different to my other installations is that i now installed x64 and not x32.
[20:25] <Greybeard> what works that didn't before?
[20:26] <Ragamuffin76> dvd in mythTv
[20:26] <Greybeard> so, how did you fix it?
[20:27] <Ragamuffin76> i just installed the x64, made all the updates and activated the driver that came with mythbuntu.
[20:27] <Greybeard> you did that since you last said anything here?
[20:27] <Greybeard> what about TV and other video?
[20:27] <Ragamuffin76> But the picture is lerking a bit
[20:28] <Ragamuffin76> jerking*
[20:28] <Greybeard> playing a DVD?
[20:28] <Ragamuffin76> y
[20:28] <Ragamuffin76> in mythtv
[20:28] <Ragamuffin76> in xine much better
[20:29] <Ragamuffin76> any suggestions?
[20:29] <Greybeard> you may have to experiment with the different playback profiles to find the best one
[20:30] <Ragamuffin76> where do i find playback profiles in mythtv?
[20:30] <Greybeard> http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Playback_profiles
[20:30] <Greybeard> it's in settings
[20:32] <Greybeard> Utilities/Setup -> Setup -> TV Settings -> Playback
[20:32] <Ragamuffin76> settings in the mythtv frontend or Backend Setup?
[20:32] <Greybeard> frontend
[20:36] <Egghead2> im running 8.02 and need help modifing the lircrc, i want to add a remote key to /home/~/.lircrc, id like the key to send a string to a change channel script
[20:37] <Greybeard> you should probably use irexec
[20:37] <Egghead2> greybeard, ive tried several times using irexec
[20:37] <Greybeard> unless mythtv can handle calling something else
[20:38] <Egghead2> done a bunch of googleing, but notyhing has workd so far :(
[20:38] <Greybeard> so, what's the problem?
[20:39] <Egghead2> while watching dishnet (live tv) i can send digits and some commands to channel change script, i want to send the "fetch" key to that same script
[20:39] <Greybeard> I don't have any experience with external channel changing or dishnet I'm afraid
[20:40] <Greybeard> but it might be helpful to get either irexec or your script to write to the terminal so you can make sure the command is right
[20:40] <Egghead2> well i think the irexec command will work, according to a wiki page i googled, but when i try it it doesnt seem to fire the command
[20:41] <Ragamuffin76> What type of Decoder and Renderer is best for my ati HD3650
[20:41] <Egghead2> grebeard, yea i have tried sending to the screen, that might make things easier to see if working
[20:42] <Egghead2> greybeard, thanks :)
[20:42] <Greybeard> sure
[20:42] <Greybeard> probably just the regular ffmpeg decoder and regular Xv (XVIDEO) display method
[20:42] <Greybeard> that's what I'm using
[20:44] <Ragamuffin76> so i choose "Standard" as Decoder and "xv-blit" as Video Renderer?
[20:44] <Greybeard> yeah, that should be good
[20:44] <Ragamuffin76> what is XvMC?
[20:45] <Greybeard> hardware motion compensation assistance
[20:45] <Greybeard> it can make MPEG2 decoding less stressful on the CPU, but I've found it to be much more trouble than it's worth
[20:45] <Greybeard> only certain chips and drivers support it
[20:45] <Ragamuffin76> but i have hardware encoding with the settings obove?
[20:46] <Greybeard> these are decoding settings
[20:46] <Ragamuffin76> yes, decoding. for playback
[20:48] <Ragamuffin76> looks like its works. u helped me a much greybeard. Thank u very much
[20:48] <Greybeard> you're welcome
[20:48] <Greybeard> it's playing smoother now?
[20:48] <Ragamuffin76> yeeeeeeees :)
[20:49] <Greybeard> what settings did you change exactly?
[20:49] <Greybeard> I fought with some of those settings for a long time trying to get better playback
[20:49] <Ragamuffin76> "Standard" as Decoder and "xv-blit" Video Renderer
[20:49] <Greybeard> what were they before?
[20:50] <Ragamuffin76> dont know exactly.
[20:50] <Ragamuffin76> sorry
[20:50] <Greybeard> I was just curious
[20:51] <Greybeard> I've messed around with fancier settings like XvMC and OpenGL rendering and Bob deinterlacing, but I could never get a better result than xv-blit and kernel deinterlacing on my system
[20:52] <Ragamuffin76> what deinterlacer do u currently have?
[20:52] <Greybeard> kernel
[20:54] <Greybeard> from what I've read, bob may be ideal, but it seems to be very picky about video timing
[20:54] <Greybeard> I could never get it to stop flickering
[20:54] <Ragamuffin76> i just tried Bob(x2). Restult: MythTV closed
[20:54] <Greybeard> that's not good
[20:55] <Greybeard> what video mode do you have BTW?
[20:55] <Ragamuffin76> what do u mean?
[20:55] <Greybeard> what dimensions and refresh rate?
[20:55] <Ragamuffin76> 1680x1050 60Mhz
[20:56] <Greybeard> not interlaced, right?
[20:56] <Ragamuffin76> no, dont think so
[20:57] <Greybeard> Bob should be able to work, since it requires a progressive refresh rate equal to the field rate of the video, which is 59.94Hz in the US
[20:57] <Ragamuffin76> but after installation i want to place it on a normal PAL television
[20:57] <Greybeard> oh, well, that may require different video settings
[20:57] <Greybeard> how will the TV be connected?
[20:58] <Ragamuffin76> SCART, if u know that
[20:58] <Greybeard> I've read about it
[20:58] <Greybeard> you have SCART on the card, or convert it from D-Sub?
[20:58] <Ragamuffin76> dont have a HDMI TV right now
[20:58] <Ragamuffin76> Convert it
[20:58] <Greybeard> that shouldn't be too hard then
[20:58] <Greybeard> I had a huge hassle getting a working modeline for my DVI TV
[21:00] <Ragamuffin76> fist i have to konfigure all the rest, before i can have an eye on that.
[21:00] <Greybeard> for PAL, you probably don't want 1680x1050, do you?
[21:00] <Ragamuffin76> thanks again. have to go.
[21:00] <Ragamuffin76> no
[21:00] <Greybeard> sure, you're welcome
[21:01] <Ragamuffin76> PAL+ is 720x576
[21:01] <Greybeard> right
[21:01] <Ragamuffin76> thats the maximum what my TV understands
[21:01] <Greybeard> well, a digital mode roughly equivalent to PAL
[21:02] <Greybeard> oh, I see, PAL+ is 16:9
[21:02] <Ragamuffin76> if i have any Problems u probably see me again ;)
[21:02] <Greybeard> ok
[21:02] <Ragamuffin76> right
[21:03] <Ragamuffin76> cya
[21:03] <Greybeard> yeah, see you
[21:39] <slaine_> hey guys, trying to get my old MythTV gear back up and running tonight seeing as Stargage is back on tomorrow
[21:39] <slaine_> Having a spot of bother with stability on 8.04.1 release with CLE266 Via M10000 based setup and a WinTV PVR-500
[21:40] <slaine_> I'm using XvMC to play back and everything seems to look good, but It just totally hard hung on me
[21:42] <slaine_> hmm, looking at the cpu usage, it doesn't appear to be using XvMC at all
[22:04] <slaine_> ok, think I've managed to get it playing via XvMC
[22:04] <slaine_> It's using less cpu but seems to not be as smooth as the straight Xv playback
[22:08] <slaine_> Damn, not right yet
[22:08] <slaine_> Unable to create XvMC Surface.
[22:24] <thedarkone> can i upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10 apha4
[22:25] <thedarkone> with downloading a disk?\
[22:27] <laga> if you use the alternate disk it might work
[22:27] <laga> but if you installed additional packages which are on the disk these might have to be pulled from the internet
[22:30] <thedarkone> hate to mess up my box
[22:31] <laga> why do you want to use an alpha version then?
[22:31] <thedarkone> it uses mythtv .22
[22:31] <laga> no, it doesn't
[22:31] <thedarkone> i thought it did
[22:50] <slaine_> can anyone confirm that VIA-XvMC (CLE266) works correctly on 8.04.1 ?
[22:50] <slaine_> I'm seeing about 2x the cpu load I'd expect


 Is that right?
[02:03] <wookey> I see they can be co-installed, but tzdata for example need the BUILD arch version and can't ask for that if it's MA same (I don't think)
[02:06] <doko_> so maybe these should be m-a foreign
[02:09] <wookey> foreign or allowed, yes
[02:10] <infinity> I think you want allowed, in that case, no?
[02:11] <infinity> Following build-dep resolution from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchCross
[02:11] <wookey> allowed if you want to be able to install either BUILD or HOST, but each depending package that wants BUILD has to have a :any
[02:12] <wookey> Having done this for a while I reckon allowed is best avoided, and splitting packages into foreign and same portions is better - then the default dependecnies 'just work' nearly everywhere
[02:12] <infinity> Well, foreign won't let you get it at all. :P
[02:13] <wookey> But yes if both arches are needed together ever then foreign is no good
[02:13] <wookey> (without package splitting)
[02:13] <infinity> Oh, I guess foreign lets you just build-dep on it with no qualifier, and assume you'll get BUILD by default.
[02:13] <wookey> I've almost got gettext split so I can stop putting :any on about 1000 packages
[02:13] <infinity> But it doesn't let you specify that either.
[02:15] <infinity> RAOF: I withdraw the Mesa query, looking at a fix right now.
[02:17] <wookey> hmm, actually tzdata can depend on openjdk-7-jre-headless:native to get the right version when it is M-A: same.
[02:17] <wookey> A chance to test this :-)
[02:18] <wookey> Not sure this is the right default though
[02:18] <infinity> And there's no reason for it to not be :same, if it is indeed coinstallable.
[02:18] <infinity> (And if that's desirable for some reason)
[02:21] <wookey> oddly I currently get differnt results building tzdata with sbuild ('jdk uninstallable') and with apt in a chroot ('no problem'). I don't know why this difference is hapenning...
[02:22] <wookey> probably due to 'clean chroot' vs 'fiddled-with chroot'
[02:34] <wookey> doko_: using :native works OK, so maybe MA:same is correct - I am clueless about java and crossing and packaging.
[02:34] <wookey> http://people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/quantal-arm64/sbuild-ma/tzdata_2012e-0ubuntu2cross2-quantal-bootstrap-arm64-20121118-022905.6937.log
[02:34] <wookey> I can certainly work with it for now
[13:38] <mohamedalaa98> Hello guys :D
[14:15] <raavi_> Hi all
[14:22] <raavi_> hi all....i have an observation but do not know the right way to escalate
[14:22] <raavi_> i was directed to here....
[14:24] <raavi_> ...with bug #892561....anybody?
[14:26] <ScottK> raavi_: If you want to discuss that bug with anyone, #ubuntu-installer is probably a better channel, but probably not on the weekend.
[14:27] <raavi_> ohh i see....thx
[14:42] <zigo> Hi. I'm a DD, and don't know how to use Launchpad. How may I reassign a bug to a different package? (in my case, #907214 should be reassigned to the Xen hypervisor).
[14:45] <jtaylor> zigo: click on the little arrow next to the package, it should open more options, incliding a package field
[14:48] <zigo> Oh, cheers! :)
[17:30] <maxiaojun> anyone concerned about b43-fwcutter source package?
[18:42] <EXORCIST> Hello
[18:42] <EXORCIST> ANyone here?
[18:43] <EXORCIST> I am good developer, i am looking to contribute to Ubuntu
[18:50] <directhex> (no he isn't, he's a troll who's already been banned from #ubuntu-uk)
[18:52] <EXORCIST> directhex got banned from ubuntu channel for harrassing op who +q him
[18:52] <directhex> yeah, i don't think making things up like that about me will work too well
[18:54] <EXORCIST> directhex
[18:54] <EXORCIST> stop trolling me in the channels, you are following me too.
[18:55] <EXORCIST> !ops
[18:55] <directhex> everyone else can see the JOIN messages, with the relevant times on them. "following you" is pretty much trivially disproven.
[19:18] <dobey> lol


[03:56] <HowdyDoody> I can ping from domain server machine to ubuntu 'workgroup' computer.   I try to enter \\<IP_ADDRESS>\ in browser and I get window pop up in NETWORK showing two items: 'netlogon share' and 'sysvol share' .  Both when clicked upon, prompt for user/password.   I've tried both domainuser/password and also ubuntu-user/password and neither are acceptable.   Clues anyone ?
[09:12] <rmg51>  Morning
[10:39] <JonathanD> Morning.
[12:12] <InHisName> Morning gents, ladies, and non-humans
[12:12] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
[12:13] <InHisName> Anyone have answer for HowdyDoody's comment 4x above ?
[14:05]  * InHisName yawns
[16:20] <ChinnoDog> HowdyDoody: you used the wrong slash
[16:31] <ChinnoDog> In Windows you either use <domain>\
[16:31] <ChinnoDog> err
 or <user>@<fqdn>
[16:32] <ChinnoDog> e.g<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:32] <ChinnoDog> or domain\chinnodog
[16:33] <ChinnoDog> (There is a technical difference but it is not relevant most of the time.)
[19:55]  * wyattderp waves a hand
[19:56] <JonathanD> Howdy.
[20:43] <adom> haayyy
[21:02] <wyattderp> Hai!


[06:14] <Gredeu> hello
[06:15] <Gredeu> i have a valid user account on ubuntuforums.  password retrieval never works, and it never claims its invalid.
[06:15] <Gredeu> it forces me to use a hotmail account.  its that serious
[06:16] <Gredeu> PM me please
[06:16] <Gredeu> for my account name


[16:13] <Iamthehuman12> The mapping from my Windows-key to the "open launcher"-function disappeared again. I tried setting it to Alt-F1 as that fixed the problem last time
[16:13] <Iamthehuman12> .. but that did not fix it this time.
[16:16] <Iamthehuman12> In 'System Settings -> Shortcuts -> Plasma' there are 5 entries for "Activate Application Launcher Widget", 4 of these say "No active shortcuts" and one says "Alt+F1"
[16:17] <Iamthehuman12> this doesn't sound very rational to have 5 entries for one thing, if people want to map many key combos to one thing that should be implemented in an another way
[16:18] <Iamthehuman12> I cannot delete the 4 inactive ones. If someone knows how to get the application launcher not activatable by "Windows"-key problem, please help
[16:27] <OvenWerks> Iamthehuman12: just looking at the system settings -> shortcuts -> <whatever> and I am confused :P  there are so many options but most are for applications
[16:27] <OvenWerks> Ah, I guess the plasma settings are what you want.
[16:31] <OvenWerks> Oh, I don't have a windows key on my keyboard.... I do have an xt/at switch on it though :)
[16:37] <OvenWerks> Anyway, there does seem to be a trash icon next to the alt-F1 entry. Do the empty entries not have one? or does it not remove them?
[16:38] <OvenWerks> If I add a "custom shortcut" and then trash it that line goes away
[19:13] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: the trash icon just removes the Alt+F1 binding, not the 5 pcs same setting
[19:15] <Iamthehuman12> I cannot delete the five instances of the launcher in the settings. And setting just one of them does not fix it. Should I set all of them and see if anything makes sense after that?
[19:16] <Iamthehuman12> no can do, cannot map same key combo to more than one at a time
[19:17] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: The system should be clear of malware, unless there is this https://securelist.com/moonbounce-the-dark-side-of-uefi-firmware/105468/ on my EFI FW. I should be getting a non-messed up dock from Lenovo next week. The current dock's firmware being messed up may possibly be a source of problems due to the DMA it has. Maybe
[19:19] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: Eickmeyer told me there is some weird hardcoding of the Windows-key to Alt+F1 in some KDE thing and it sometimes disappears and he doesn't know why or how
[19:21] <Iamthehuman12> once I got it fixed by reassigning Alt+F1 again in the system settings like he suggested, but now doing it does not help any more
[19:57] <OvenWerks> Iamthehuman12: in ~/.config/kglobalshortcutsrc I have one line: activate widget 36=Alt+F1,none,Activate Application Menu Widget
[19:57] <OvenWerks> do you have more lines similar?
[20:00] <OvenWerks> I wonder if wiget number (36) might get changed if the top bar (or bottom) gets edited. Like if more than one application menu is added/removed
[20:28] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: I see no line similar to that. What does that number after 'activate widget' represent? I see some entries with "none,none"
[20:30] <OvenWerks> If there is no desktop file in /usr/share/applications/ for the application, the panel makes one up on the spot and gic=ves it a number.. so 36.desktop would be a file I am guessing.
[20:32] <OvenWerks> but I don't know where that file would be located
[20:33] <OvenWerks> Also, you may not have it if you have never changed your application menu style with alternatives
[20:33] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: Here are the 5 entries I found searching for "activate widget" and none of them contain Alt+F1 even contrary to what my system settings tell me
[20:33] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: https://paste.debian.net/1240906/
[20:34]  * OvenWerks always changes his to "Application Menu" from the default.
[20:34] <Iamthehuman12> yeah, you do not have a Windows key
[20:35] <Iamthehuman12> I remap ctrl-alt-L to first lock the system, wait 6 seconds and then put the displays to sleep, but right now I'd like to get the Windows-key to do the same thing it does in every OS
[20:35] <OvenWerks> The one in line 5 looks borked
[20:36] <OvenWerks> (widget 3=,none,Activa) it is missing whatever should be ahead of the ,
[20:36] <Iamthehuman12> it looks just the same as lines 1, 2 and 4 except the number is different. I'm more looking at the empty space before the comma in line 3
[20:37] <OvenWerks> :) ok line3 which is line5 in the paste
[20:37] <Iamthehuman12> ah, ok sorry
[20:38] <Iamthehuman12> so... add something there, or maybe put copy of the file aside, remove the other lines and add Alt+F1 before the comma and reboot and see if anything interesting happened?
[20:39] <Iamthehuman12> (the other with "Activate Application Launcher Widget")
[20:40] <Iamthehuman12> I'm thinking those lines are why I'm seeing the same exact shortcut target 5x, when there should be only one.
[20:41] <OvenWerks> yeah that wouold make sense
[20:44] <OvenWerks> My question would be: how did they all get there?
[20:47] <Iamthehuman12> I do not know why all distros and OS drift into inconsistent states in unexplainable ways. I hope the Lenovo really brings a working dock. I had a malware streak from 2018, because I didn't realize that the criminals will corrupt the microsoft account which will enable reinfecting all OS after the Windows has been started. I cleared that one out, nuked the EFI-partition and installed clean Windows 11 and US 22.04
[20:48] <Iamthehuman12> I thought that getting a laptop with the security seals would render me free of the malware, but these corporations make more parameters than they make systems to keep the parameters in check
[20:48] <OvenWerks> Windows? Isn't that the demo OS computers come with that everyone replaces with a real OS before they use it?
[20:50] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: Yes, just as soon as I can get FW updates to my dock via fwupdate, I will boot only one Windows 10, in VirtulBox, to run one program Xenu's Link Sleuth, which is the only truly free-of-charge and non-crippled link checker tool for webadmins (a private spider)
[20:51] <Iamthehuman12> or someone forces Microsoft to allow Windows to boot from USB-encasings, in which case none will need Windows inside of their machine
[20:53] <Iamthehuman12> ok, done, reboot, what is Australia doing in the ESC? Fine time to reboot
[20:57] <Iamthehuman12> some progress, now there is only one entry for "Activate Application Launcher Widget", but windows key doesn't work to launch it. Alt+F1 is set as I wrote it to the config file
[20:58] <Iamthehuman12> but pressing Alt+F1 does nothing, like pressing Windows-key does nothing
[20:58] <OvenWerks> So wrong widget number :P
[20:58] <Iamthehuman12> should I randomly try all 5 till I strike lucky?
[20:59] <OvenWerks> I would but It may be something else too.
[20:59] <OvenWerks> so try those five first
[21:00] <Iamthehuman12> I'd need to reboot 4 more times
[21:03] <Iamthehuman12> so there are no ways of finding out where lines into the config files come from and where the numbers come from or what they are pointing to, so best shot is try numbers if maybe one of them is right and pray hard that the system will not do it again and again and again
[21:04] <OvenWerks> I would guess there is a place where it is...  but not where
[21:05] <Iamthehuman12> I cannot decipher that
[21:09] <Iamthehuman12> I should just accept that the criminal's synthesis product is sweeter in people's ears than my real life, so I'm just going to be bullied, robbed and mislead by people, companies and organizations for as long as I live. This is so rife that I cannot tell bonafide incompetence apart from the malafide pretense
[21:11] <Iamthehuman12> if you kickban me for that sigh, you'll just expedite me learning to install Arch, because there at least someone, incl. the users are supposed to understand how stuff works and why it broke and how to unbreak, instead of cryptic references that don't help in getting basic GUI feature to work after it was shipped broken, once fixed and now it broke again and cannot be fixed
[21:12] <OvenWerks> I am looking to see if I can find out where it should be.
[21:13] <Iamthehuman12> Thank you for your kind help and all the work you put in
[21:33] <OvenWerks> Iamthehuman12: I don't know where to look. If you take that file and remove it (actually rename it) and restart, I would think plasma would recreate  the file
[21:33] <OvenWerks> I don't know how much you have in there though
[21:33] <OvenWerks> but at least it may give you the right line to use
[21:35] <OvenWerks> It would seem that kglobalshortcutsrc is just short cuts so just rename it to oldkglobalshortcutsrc.bac or something
[23:23] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: thanks for your help, I'll try the config recreation
[23:31] <Iamthehuman12> OvenWerks: removing the config file and rebooting resulted in that nor System Settings nor kglobalshortcutrc no longer has any entry for "Activate Application Launcher Widget"
[23:37] <OvenWerks> no good.


[11:04] <froud> African Greetings
[03:42] <amu> moin'
[03:43] <Beineri> moin
[06:58] <motaboy> Hi all.
[06:58] <amu> wb
[06:59] <haggai> hiya
[07:00] <haggai> amu: do you know why there are .gmo files in kde-i18n's .tar.gz?  Aren't .[g] mo autogenerated anyway?
[07:00] <haggai> dpkg-source is complaining when I try to dpkg-buildpackage -b ; dpkg-buildpackage -S
[07:01] <haggai> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to zh_CN/messages/kdeutils/ksim.gmo: binary file contents changed
[07:01] <haggai> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to zh_CN/messages/kdeutils/ktimer.gmo: binary file contents changed
[07:01] <haggai> etc
[07:03] <amu> as i know .pot is the original, foo.po' are the translations, foo.gmo' are the compiled foo.po translations (binaries)
[07:03] <haggai> exactly, so why am I seeing these in the .tar.gz?
[07:16] <amu> haggai: which dir you found them?
[07:17] <haggai> amu: all over the source
[07:17] <haggai> amu: I'm trying this now
[07:18] <haggai> find `cat subdirs` -type f -name '*.gmo' -exec rm {} \;
[07:18] <haggai> in the clean target
[07:23] <amu> froud: you could ask also in #kubuntu
[07:46] <froud> amu: I tought you said the KDEPIM problem with install of Kubuntu from GNOME was fixed?
[08:27] <froud> Riddell: r u awake
[08:34] <amu> froud: problem is still gnupg-agent which isnt in main ...
[08:35] <froud> amu what do you suggest I add to my doc to help users
[08:35] <froud> all I have is desktop and help
[08:35] <froud> :-)
[08:35] <froud> anyone know why
[08:36] <froud> amu: is it in Universe?
[08:37] <froud> amu: if it is then adding Universe to sources.list should fix it
[09:01] <amu> froud: i'm adding a review of it to my todo's ... will do a review within next 24h
[09:01] <froud> amu: ok thanks
[09:01] <froud> amu: btw I am just waiting for sysadim at kde to get me my account
[09:02] <froud> amu: should be able to continue with knetwork-conf then
[09:04] <amu> froud: cool, if you need an sync, i've also an acc there
[09:05] <froud> amu: cool, should get the account after the long weekend. Being easter and all, they are slow
[09:05] <amu> froud: checkedout cvs knetworkconf merged it run testbuild it now
[09:06] <froud> amu: any news on https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8180
[09:06] <froud> Hmm seems Chris has it
[09:09] <froud> is anything active on kynaptic?
[09:09] <froud> seems like it just died
[09:09] <amu> ups, i just finished it, some lintian cleanup and ready for a first test
[09:10] <froud> ok
[09:10] <amu> froud: you wanna test new knetworkconf ?
[09:10] <froud> sure
[09:10] <amu> you run a ppc or you need i386 debs?
[09:11] <froud> i386
[09:11] <amu> gimme 5min. for a 386 port
[09:11] <froud> no worries
[09:26] <amu> froud: http://bofh.debian.net/tmp/knetworkconf_0.6.1-3ubuntu1.1_i386.deb
[09:28] <froud> amu: install is just dpkg -i
[09:29] <amu> yep
[09:35] <froud> amu: what's changed?
[09:35] <froud> amu: bug #8180 is still not fixed
[09:36] <froud> amu: and design changes given to Juan are not implimented
[09:36] <froud> amu: other than that it looks the same to be
[09:39] <amu> froud: as i saw there most cosmetic changes and of course ubuntu support in it, run a checkout 1-2h ago, what did you changed/submitted ?
[09:42] <froud> Hmmm, well my install does not show any changes
[09:43] <froud> amu: is it possible to run it as kcmshell
[09:46] <froud> amu: why call it kcm_knetworkconfmodule
[09:49] <froud> amu: really I can't see any changes
[09:49] <amu> froud: it's possible to run it as a kcmshell
[09:49] <froud> yeah I run it as kcmshell kcm_knetworkconfmodule
[09:49] <amu> froud: that's what i checkout from cvs
[09:50] <froud> Hmmm, seems Juan did not do the changes I asked for
[09:50] <froud> which cvs btw
[09:50] <froud> the kde one?
[09:50] <amu> froud: within kcontrol resize of the windows work, as a shell it doesnt
[09:50] <amu> yes the kde one
[09:50] <froud> Hmmm
[09:50] <froud> strange
[09:51] <amu> s/as/in
[09:51] <froud> hmm. OK
[09:52] <froud> Well I guess Juan is waiting for the move and accounts to be setup at KDE
[09:53] <froud> I spoke to KDE Docs about Kynaptic
[09:53] <froud> they can have a profiled doc in KDE CVS
[09:54] <froud> amu: we were going to take the synaptic document and profile it to save us head-aches
[09:54] <froud> amu: but if we do that then we will need preprocessing in order to get gnome and kde versions of the document. Once for Synaptic and once for Kynaptic
[09:54] <amu> dont know, he told me that the ubuntu support is in now, and they changed to kde-cvs, no other new from him, wel at least it looks better than before, ubuntu support is also on it, should i upload the new deb?
[09:55] <froud> what ubuntu support?
[09:55] <froud> amu: as far as I see nothing has changed
[09:56] <froud> and the module is useless if we dont fix bug 8180
[09:56] <froud> that bug is a BLOCKER
[09:56] <amu> mine looks different, smater than before, and there isnt anmore 2 question which distro you use ...
[09:57] <amu> smater/smarter
[09:57] <froud> OK agreed that was fixed, but I had checked that option to remember
[09:57] <froud> so I would not know if it is fixed or not
[09:58] <froud> The options on the routes tab are still wrong from a usability perspective
[09:58] <amu> hold on i'll test it on my testmaschine
[09:58] <froud> the drop list should be on the left
[10:11] <froud> amu: it definately detects ubuntu
[10:12] <froud> amu: I just uninstalled and cleaned up and it no longer prompts for platform after new installation
[10:14] <froud> amu: I dont see changes with regard to these entries in the Changelog
[10:14] <froud> - New dialog for managing static hosts.
[10:14] <froud> - Many User Interface enhaments.
[10:17] <amu> froud: http://bofh.debian.net/tmp/knetworkconf_0.6.1-3ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
[10:18] <amu> upstream changelog isnt updated, those are the changed from 0.6 -> 0.6.1 .... i wrote the changes to debian's changelog
[10:28] <froud> amu: OK I see. Seems the changes I noted to him were not done yet.
[10:29] <froud> Other than that it works, but still cant change IP address
[10:29] <froud> I can chang eit from the backend
[10:29] <froud> but not the front
[10:34] <amu> froud: confirmed, it definitiv do nothing, expect using diskspace
[10:34] <froud> amu: :-) lol
[10:35] <froud> amu: I will have a first draft of kynaptic by tomorrow night, will give it to you then so you can commit it
[10:35] <apokryphos> Ah, since it was mentioned now ;), I've been meaning to bring this up: just what was the problem with Kpackage?
[10:36] <froud> apokryphos: dunno, not working on it
[10:37] <apokryphos> Because Kynaptic was chosen as the default, but kpackage seems *much* more advanced (I prefer it to synaptic now, easily).
[10:37] <amu> froud: ok
[10:37] <apokryphos> I know it was mentioned that work was going to be done on kynaptic, but isn't that an unnecessarily hassle, since something decent is out there on the market already?
[10:38] <froud> apokryphos: last I looked at kpackage iit could not do half of what synpatic does with package management
[10:39] <apokryphos> froud: Been investigating it last two days, and I can't say I've seen any disadvantages with it.
[10:39] <apokryphos> It's also good because, unlike kynaptic, when it's running it doesn't hog apt. Only does when it's commiting things.
[10:40] <apokryphos> *k/synaptic
[10:42] <froud> apokryphos: I don't mind which one users use. But I think that most use Synaptic on K/Ubuntu, no?
[10:42] <froud> If yes then it makes sense to have kynaptic
[10:42] <usual> did things like /exec amarok in konversation stop working with the latest kde updates
[10:43] <froud> but I agree that kpackage is a good alternative
[10:43] <apokryphos> froud: Most users on Ubuntu use Synaptic, but I had a discussion with members yesterday in #kubuntu, and it was agreed (among the ones who spoke), that kpackage was quite a bit nicer.
[10:43] <apokryphos> froud: why would it make sense to have kynaptic, though, if the above was the case?
[10:44] <froud> apokryphos: personally I dont like kpackage
[10:44] <froud> apokryphos: but then that is just me
[10:44] <apokryphos> froud: how come?
[10:45] <froud> apokryphos: poor usability standards mostly
[10:45] <froud> apokryphos: bad use of desktop real-estate
[10:45] <apokryphos> How so? I found it quite usable. :D Quite liked the way many things were handled there.
[10:47] <apokryphos> I wouldn't base it solely on first impressions ;-). I think it's natural a lot of the time to prefer old things before using the new ones for a bit; that's the case with change in general.
[10:47] <apokryphos> (example: the new icon-zooming in 3.4)
[10:49] <froud> apokryphos: I have been using kde for 5 years and have not touched it in the last three
[10:51] <apokryphos> Sorry, little ambigious; haven't "touched it"? You mean, not alter with defualt settings? :)
[10:51] <froud> apokryphos: looking it it now I just dont see the need to have so much real-estate for Properties | File List | ChangLog
[10:51] <froud> apokryphos: no when I was using it, it worked
[10:51] <froud> but then I starte dusing synaptic and found it faster and easier
[10:52] <apokryphos> oh, referring to kpackage. RIght.
[10:52] <froud> so from a usability perspective I was more productive
[10:52] <froud> kpackage is still clunky
[10:52] <apokryphos> Re: real-estate with Properties etc... I think that's hardly a point to reject the use of it. It's an extra option, and options are good. You can ignore them when you don't like them. ;-)
[10:53] <froud> I agree options are good
[10:53] <froud> I just said my preference is for synaptic
[10:53] <froud> and if there was kynaptic modelled on synpatic I would be a happy camper
[10:53] <froud> each user will find their way
[10:54] <froud> but as a documenter, I am sensitized to usability
[10:54] <froud> I found synaptic to have a higher level of usability
[10:54] <froud> It was quicker to do things and fewer  click were required
[10:54] <apokryphos> Plus parts in kpackage, as I see it: (i) it's KDE, (ii) love the way it doesn't hog apt, (iii) information on packages *far* more accessible with the demarcation there of the GUI, (iv) better search (filtering).
[10:54] <froud> screen real-estate was optimized
[10:55] <apokryphos> I genuinely think it's more aesthetically pleasing, but that's a more subjective point.
[10:55] <froud> synaptic remembers your searches for example, kpackage does not
[10:56] <froud> aesthetics are important on a desktop
[10:56] <froud> especially kde
[10:56] <apokryphos> Very true, but that's almost a necessary consequence of the search method (filtering). I think the pros on that type of search outnumber the cons.
[10:56] <apokryphos> froud: agreed.
[10:57] <froud> The intersting thing is that I work on SuSE
[10:57] <froud> and I still use YaST under ncurses
[10:57] <apokryphos> Cool; only used it briefly, but my brother was a big fan.
[10:57] <apokryphos> still got the SuSE mascot we got from the Linux Expo ;)
[10:57] <froud> I find YaST user ncurse easy than Kpackage, go figure
[10:58] <apokryphos> not too familiar with it myself
[10:58] <froud> Still it is worth developing both apps
[10:59] <apokryphos> I think Kynaptic has potential, but that's it's a far way off. It's mildly off-putting asking newbies to use Kynaptic; first thing some have ended up doing is getting all gtk in to get Synaptic back.
[10:59] <apokryphos> I really think kpackage would make a decent default.
[11:00] <froud> apokryphos: well no reason why not
[11:01] <apokryphos> It is, on the whole, quite unknown. Dunno. Perhaps it could be an issue discussed in the next kubuntu meeting? Who knows.
[11:01] <froud> a newbie will not have diserning taste and will accept most of what is thrown at them until the learn of better methods :-)
[11:02] <apokryphos> :P
[11:02] <froud> I agree that kynaptic should not be installed until it is ready
[11:02] <apokryphos> Yes. If it is developement and grows to be good, then we should be using only the best. ;)
[11:02] <froud> one of the things I hate on some distros is they way they add half functional apps by default
[11:03] <apokryphos> That's essentially my point, here. :)
[11:03] <froud> I think that this goes against what k/ubuntu is doing
[11:03] <froud> k/ubuntu is said to take a handfull of good apps and isntall them instead of installing everything and the kitchen sink
[11:04] <froud> I think this is where SuSE went wrong
[11:04] <froud> The best thing with Kpackage is, as you say, integration with Konqueror
[11:05] <apokryphos> froud: what kind of things were problematic in SuSE? You running Ubuntu now? Or multiple distros, perhaps?
[11:05] <froud> newbies love Konqueror and may never use kpackage, but will install packages via iiit under Konqueror
[11:06] <apokryphos> Yeah, you can install .debs with it etc.
[11:06] <froud> apokryphos: i have multiple machines, labs, but my   desktop is SuSE
[11:06] <apokryphos> ;)
[11:06] <froud> until I am happy to switch to Kubuntu
[11:07] <froud> I can trust SuSE
[11:07] <froud> I cant yet trust Kubuntu
[11:07] <apokryphos> Cool. Whatever floats your boat. We had five different distros until the other day... converted my youngest brother to Kubu. :P
[11:07] <froud> like today, I did a smart upgrade and lost KPanel
[11:07] <apokryphos> Yup, it still needs some work, no doubt (last dist-upgrade was problematic), but it's looking very promising.
[11:08] <apokryphos> yup, had problems with my kicker and other .kde settings too. :_
[11:08] <froud> abosolutely that's why I am contributing ;-)
[11:08] <apokryphos> :)
[11:08] <froud> and the nice thing is stuff moves upsssstream
[11:08] <apokryphos> Are you on the doc team? Let me know if any help is ever needed there. Been looking for a way to help out Ubu for some time. :)
[11:09] <froud> only yesterday lauri from kde was saying that in six years she has yet to receive docs from a distro
[11:09] <apokryphos> heh
[11:09] <apokryphos> Change for the better -- progress. ;)
[11:09] <froud> now with knetwork-conf will be a first for her
[11:09] <froud> apokryphos: we can always use help on docteam
[11:09] <froud> actually I    am the only one starting to do stuff for kubuntu
[11:10] <froud> so another pair of hands and eyes would be welcome
[11:10] <apokryphos> I'm doing some stuff for kate at the mo, and koffice needs some love, but I'm not overloaded, so I'd be glad to help. :)
[11:10] <froud> for grumpy I am preparing a Kubuntu Quick Guide
[11:10] <froud> and I am also preparing some ICDL modules for Kubuntu
[11:11] <apokryphos> Breezer, you mean. ;) I think that would be very handy. ubuntuguide.org came in extremely useful.
[11:11] <apokryphos> *Breezy
[11:11] <froud> Yeah I think the ICDL stuff will be cool too.
[11:11] <froud> It really is for a person that has never used a pc before
[11:11] <froud> explains things like this is a mouse
[11:12] <froud> a keyboard
[11:12] <froud> these are menus
[11:12] <apokryphos> froud: Please let me know if you need any help with that. I'm willing to write/read over any stuff.
[11:12] <apokryphos> Yup; did some stuff like that when working on Konqueror handbook.
[11:12] <froud> cool I have it in an svn repos out at TSF for now
[11:12] <apokryphos> haggai: any thoughts? :)
[11:12] <froud> apokryphos: do you know the ICDL
[11:13] <haggai> hmm, difficult choice.  I found that although kynaptic is a bit basic, it does enough for simple usage and people can install other alternatives if they want advanced stuff, and then next release we can release an improved kynaptic.  If we set kpackage by default now everyone has to learn something new for next release
[11:13] <apokryphos> froud: No idea what that is, I'm afraid.
[11:13] <froud> International COmputer Drivers License
[11:13] <froud> 7 modules
[11:13] <haggai> also we have mvo (synaptic maintainer) on the canonical team so we can get better support of a synaptic-based package manager than kpackage
[11:14] <froud> haggai: why should that make a diff
[11:14] <apokryphos> haggai: They're all the same at the back
[11:15] <apokryphos> Fact is kpackage is vastly more advanced; kynaptic is really quite weak. :)
[11:15] <haggai> yes, but if we want to go with [ks] ynaptic in the long term..?
[11:15] <apokryphos> I know it'll be developed, but is that not unnecessary if there's something decent out? I guess it could be done, but it would take time...
[11:16] <apokryphos> froud: I'll see you around, and I'll try to find out just what that is. ;)
[11:16] <haggai> apokryphos: is kpackage really decent?  Why isn't everyone using it then?#
[11:16] <apokryphos> haggai: It's very good as far as I've seen, and pretty unknown, on the whole. Try it out; it's in Universe, I think.
[11:16] <froud> apokryphos: checkout https://www.acs.org.au/icdl/
[11:17] <froud> I cant expose the SVN URI yet caus eof licensing issues
[11:17] <apokryphos> haggai: I played around with it yesterday, and personally prefer it ot synaptic it already, like I said. :) Pros/cons mentioned above.
[11:17] <apokryphos> froud: thanks.
[11:17] <froud> apokryphos: but when I can I will
[11:17] <apokryphos> froud: Please don't forget to poke me as soon as I can be of any help. :P
[11:17] <froud> apokryphos: I will
[11:17] <haggai> apokryphos: I don't disagree its better feature-wise now.  What I am asking is, what makes sense for the longer term?
[11:19] <apokryphos> haggai: I'm trying to consider that here. :) What's the advantage of going kynaptic?
[11:20] <haggai> apokryphos: we can stay with the synaptic UI and codebase (lib wise) meaning the ubuntu & kubuntu user experience is closer
[11:21] <apokryphos> Ubuntu are us, but I don't think the team should be in the business of developing other packages to emphasise the similarity.
[11:22] <haggai> hmmkay we should talk to amu & Riddell
[11:23] <apokryphos> I agree; would be interested in their opinions.
[11:24] <haggai> apokryphos: would you have time to summarise this to the kubuntu-devel mailing list?
[11:24] <apokryphos> haggai: sure. :)
[11:26] <haggai> thanks - might help the discussion reach a wider audience


[10:20] <magicaltrout> argh balls
[10:20] <magicaltrout> as if i'm  double booked for juju talks
[10:20] <magicaltrout> how is that possible?!
[13:37] <rcj> Is there a charmer who could do a quick review of an MP to restore function in the bip charm lost moving from precise to trusty?  7 line diff @ https://code.launchpad.net/~rcj/charms/trusty/bip/lp1604759/+merge/300585
[13:55] <stub> bradm: You're listed as maintainer of that one
[14:00] <stub> rcj: I've reviewed and merged it. It won't get in the charm store until the promulgation dances are done, which I think requires bradm since he is listed as the maintainer.
[14:01] <rcj> stub, thanks
[15:01] <ryebot> Is there some juju 2 command that will allow me to recover a registration key given a user name? e.g., if the originally provided key is lost
[15:02] <ryebot> Also, is there a way to delete a user? Not just disable; I want to be able to reuse the name for testing purposes.
[15:34] <petevg> @kwmonroe, @cory_fu: Pushed revised PRs for https://github.com/juju-solutions/bigtop/pull/27 and https://github.com/juju-solutions/bigtop/pull/28  lmk if they look good (I did re-run the tests, and they still pass.)
[16:40] <balloons> there's two juju-core packages sitting in -proposed for xenial. Could the package from 7/18 be rejected, and the package from today be accepted?
[17:56] <bdx> mbruzek: how are you installing bundletester? - I can't get past the cheetah dep on trusty or xenial ... `pip install bundletester` fails
[17:56] <bdx> on the cheetah dep
[18:03] <bdx> mbruzek: hmmm, ok, a fresh trusty container, and it installed correctly .... strange
[18:22] <bdx> mbruzek: I'm guessing bundletester doesn't work with 2.0 yet either, so I need to get a 1.x env setup .... grrr
[18:23] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: it'll work next week
[18:23] <tvansteenburgh> it actually works now if you run it in charmbox:latest
[18:23] <tvansteenburgh> lazyPower: is that the right tag? ^
[18:24] <lazyPower> tvansteenburgh - its in charmbox:devel, but he'll need to grab the deps. we didnt publish a tag
[18:24] <tvansteenburgh> oh ok
[18:29] <bdx> tvansteenburgh, lazyPower: on it, thanks guys
[19:08] <lazyPower> i should do that though
[19:49] <kwmonroe> wait wat?  lazyPower, charmbox:devel will soon have bundletester back?
[19:49] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - well, it technically has it now... but you have to manually upgrade some components
[19:50] <lazyPower> i was going to push a tag release so we could hack with it until it gets in the right spots and it just shows up in devel
[19:52] <lazyPower> kwmonroe https://github.com/chuckbutler/charmbox/commit/9e917fb4d43e91149870e3fdf6070b708d641a65
[19:55] <lazyPower> sorry kwmonroe - i cleaned that up for legibility -- https://github.com/chuckbutler/charmbox/commit/cfa3b42b0ed74fded798f0b172881dedf2a202bc
[20:03] <lazyPower> bdx tvansteenburgh - i just pushed lazypower/charmbox:beta-12 -- if you want to test with bleeding edge, that was just pressed ~ 5 minutes ago
[21:13] <bdx> marcoceppi: I think I have some stale controllers bootstrapped in my aws charm dev account, would you mind clearing them for me?
[21:14] <bdx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/20507893/ :-(
[21:38] <marcoceppi> bdx: I will later tonight, thnaks for the heads up
[21:53] <bdx> thank you
[22:06] <bdx> lazyPower: amulet
[22:07] <bdx> amulet hasn't been refactored for 2.0 yet has it?
[22:07] <lazyPower> bdx - i have all the latest deps put together for you in a container already :)
[22:07] <lazyPower> bdx  lazypower/charmbox:beta-11
[22:07] <lazyPower> er beta-12
[22:08] <bdx> lazyPower: I'm running it
[22:08] <lazyPower> otherwise, you'll need to fetch tip from the following:   bundletester, amulet, deployer, jujuclient
[22:08] <lazyPower> and install them in that order
[22:08] <lazyPower> additionally, if any of your amulet tests do something like apt-get install amulet or pip install amulet, the house of cards falls apart
[22:09] <bdx> ahh, so https://github.com/jamesbeedy/layer-kibana/blob/master/tests/tests.yaml
[22:09] <bdx> would bring her down
[22:09] <bdx> ?
[22:09] <lazyPower> yep
[22:10] <bdx> ok, thats whats up then
[22:10] <lazyPower> so, you can comment that out or just rm it while you get on with life until it lands in stable next week
[22:10] <bdx> bah
[22:10] <bdx> ok
[22:10] <lazyPower> sorry its hinky but we're mid-flight, packaging solves this
[22:10] <bdx> for the sake of finishing what I set out to do today
[22:11] <bdx> no worries.
[22:11] <bdx> perfect
[22:11] <bdx> thanks for your help today
[22:11] <lazyPower> anytime :)
[22:11] <lazyPower> anything else before i run off for the weekend?
[22:12] <lazyPower> magicaltrout - get some rest :) Big weeks coming up for you. Try to enjoy your weekend
[22:12] <bdx> nah, I'm going to try to take some time away from the screen myself this weekend
[22:13] <bdx> thanks tho - enjoy
[22:13] <lazyPower> :) awesome. see you on Monday then
[22:13] <lazyPower> cheers
[22:54] <linnn> With juju Relations between charms what's the convention when a port needs to be exposed?
[22:54] <linnn> I have a website charm and a database charm, so when I add the relation between the two the database port needs to be open.
[22:55] <linnn> Is there a way to expose ports in relation hooks?