[00:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3345 Proposed pocket (cosmic/bluedevil, cosmic/breeze, cosmic/breeze-gtk, cosmic/breeze-plymouth, cosmic/drkonqi, cosmic/kactivitymanagerd, cosmic/kde-cli-tools, cosmic/kde-gtk-config, cosmic/kdecoration, cosmic/kdeplasma-addons, cosmic/kgamma5, cosmic/khotkeys, cosmic/kinfocenter, cosmic/kmenuedit, cosmic/kscreen, cosmic/kscreenlocker, cosmic/ksshaskpass, cosmic/ksysguard, cosmic/kwayland-integrat
[01:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3345 Proposed pocket (cosmic/bluedevil, cosmic/breeze, cosmic/breeze-gtk, cosmic/drkonqi, cosmic/kactivitymanagerd, cosmic/kde-cli-tools, cosmic/kde-gtk-config, cosmic/kdecoration, cosmic/kdeplasma-addons, cosmic/kgamma5, cosmic/khotkeys, cosmic/kinfocenter, cosmic/kmenuedit, cosmic/kscreen, cosmic/kscreenlocker, cosmic/ksshaskpass, cosmic/ksysguard, cosmic/kwayland-integration, cosmic/kwin, cosmic
[12:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3346 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[13:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3346 Diff missing (cosmic/baloo-widgets5, cosmic/kaccounts-integration, cosmic/kcalcore, cosmic/kcontacts, cosmic/kdav, cosmic/libkcddb, cosmic/libkcompactdisc, cosmic/libkdegames, cosmic/libkeduvocdocument, cosmic/libkf5kdcraw, cosmic/libkf5kexiv2, cosmic/libkf5kmahjongg, cosmic/libkomparediff2, cosmic/syndication). Pending binary packages (cosmic/marble)
[14:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3346 Diff missing (cosmic/baloo-widgets5, cosmic/kaccounts-integration, cosmic/kcalcore, cosmic/kcontacts, cosmic/kdav, cosmic/kmime, cosmic/libkcddb, cosmic/libkcompactdisc, cosmic/libkdegames, cosmic/libkeduvocdocument, cosmic/libkf5kdcraw, cosmic/libkf5kexiv2, cosmic/libkf5kmahjongg, cosmic/libkomparediff2, cosmic/marble, cosmic/syndication). Failed to build (cosmic/akonadi)
[15:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3346 Diff missing (cosmic/baloo-widgets5, cosmic/kaccounts-integration, cosmic/kcalcore, cosmic/kcontacts, cosmic/kdav, cosmic/kmime, cosmic/libkcddb, cosmic/libkcompactdisc, cosmic/libkdegames, cosmic/libkeduvocdocument, cosmic/libkf5kdcraw, cosmic/libkf5kexiv2, cosmic/libkf5kmahjongg, cosmic/libkomparediff2, cosmic/marble, cosmic/syndication). Pending binary packages (cosmic/akonadi)
[18:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3347 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[19:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3347 Diff missing
[19:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3347 Generating diffs
[19:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3347 Successfully built
[19:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3347 Publishing packages
[19:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3347 Proposed pocket
[20:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3346 Dependency wait (cosmic/kdepim-addons). Diff missing (cosmic/akonadi, cosmic/akonadi-calendar, cosmic/akonadi-calendar-tools, cosmic/akonadi-contacts, cosmic/akonadi-import-wizard, cosmic/akonadi-mime, cosmic/akonadi-notes, cosmic/akonadi-search, cosmic/akonadiconsole, cosmic/akregator, cosmic/ark, cosmic/artikulate, cosmic/audiocd-kio, cosmic/baloo-widgets5, cosmic/blinken, cosmic/bomber, cos
[21:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3346 Diff missing


[12:26] <Guest63948> Hi all. Got a question. I wanna install vpnc. There's 3 packages I needed in Ubuntu, "vpnc", "network-manager-vpnc" and "network-manager-vpnc-gnome". Do I need the "gnome bits" for vpnc in Lubuntu?
[12:50] <Guest63948> Hi all. Got a question. I wanna install vpnc. There's 3 packages I needed in Ubuntu, "vpnc", "network-manager-vpnc" and "network-manager-vpnc-gnome". Do I need the "gnome bits" for vpnc in Lubuntu?
[12:54] <stlsaint> Guest63948: read what that particular package does and see if theres not another already like it in repos
[12:55] <Guest63948> Do I need the "gnome bits" if I'm not using Gnome?
[12:58] <Guest63948> If I mark "network-manager-vpnc", "vpnc" and "network-manager-vpnc-gnome" are also marked, but do I need the gonme bits when running LXDE?
[14:33] <NyLes_> buzz?
[14:33] <NyLes_> can someone goodhearted help me please?
[14:38] <MrChrisDruif> !ask | NyLes_
[14:40] <MrChrisDruif> What seems to be the problem NyLes_ ?
[14:41] <NyLes_> i have an ol video card NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400, and it has a bug with the latest drivers..
[14:41] <NyLes_> it works fine with the drivers at puppy linux.. how can i get it to work with lubuntu?
[14:50] <NyLes_> MrChrisDruif can you help me?
[14:50] <MrChrisDruif> I don't know NyLes_
[14:50] <MrChrisDruif> What drivers are shipped with puppy?
[14:50] <NyLes_> MrChrisDruif thank you..
[14:51] <NyLes_> i have no idea :(
[14:51] <valdur55> NyLes_, puppy,, what version?
[14:52] <valdur55> NyLes_, and do you downloaded package manager drivers?
[14:53] <NyLes_> valdur55 puppy linux 5 something :D its Lucid Puppy if i remember..
[14:53] <NyLes_> never heard of it? how to do it?
[14:54] <valdur55> NyLes_, jockey-text :)
[14:55] <NyLes_> valdur55 what's jockey-text? im sorry, i'm just a newbie :/
[14:56] <valdur55> NyLes_, oh... what bug?
[14:57] <phillw> From a thread marked [solved] I have one of those cards to in one of my machines. For Maverick you actually need the 96.43.19 which nvidia released a few months after Maverick came out (which is why it's not installed by default).
[14:57] <phillw> The nvidia driver definitely gives better performance than nouveau. Download the latest legacy 96.xx driver from nvidia's website and follow their instructions for installation.
[14:58] <phillw> The thread is at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1646166 it does involve some editing of the x-org file if it is out of range.
[14:59] <NyLes_> valdur55 i don't particularly know, but what I know is a latest driver causes my video card to somewhat crash? it doesn't display anything on my monitor
[15:00] <NyLes_> phillw i'll check on that, but can i really still download that so old drver at nvidia?
[15:00] <phillw> NyLes_: it mentions getting hold of the legacy driver from their site - hopefully it is still available.
[15:11] <NyLes_> phillw the one available at nvidia's site is 96.43.20, will it work?
[15:14] <phillw> NyLes_: give it a try :) If you need an example xorg.conf file - try the Example A & C one at http://curubuntu.binghamton.edu/XORG/example-xorg_conf.html once you have the driver if you have problems.
[15:14] <NyLes_> phillw big thanks :)) i hope all will be fine..
[15:16] <NyLes_> i never thought nvidia still holds old drivers ^^
[15:36] <NyLes_> phillw nvidia says they have a utility taht will guide me to config xorg, do you think its reliable? and oh i just found the exact version you said lol from nvidia site also
[15:37] <phillw> use that guide, if it does not work, try the example A&C from that link. Oh, and do report back how you get on :)
[15:40] <doda_> hi, what framework does lubuntu use for powersaving ?
[15:40] <doda_> when i close the lid wifi goes down, and that sucks :D
[15:46] <NyLes_> phillw yes i will, what do yu think if i try much older version? what is the oldest by the way?
[15:50] <NyLes_> phillw is it fine if i installed lubuntu while nomodeset is on? because if i didn't activate the option all i can see is black?
[15:50] <phillw> The recommendation from the thread is to use the 96.43.19 version
[15:51] <phillw> yes, that is fine to use nomode set.
[15:51] <phillw> once you have the driver in and configured, remove the nomode set and hopefully all will be well :)
[15:56] <NyLes_> phillw, I'll be back tomorrow its late night here already,, big thanks friend..
[15:56] <phillw> NyLes_: you're welcome
[15:57] <NyLes_> phillw 1 more thing, should I stick with lubuntu or i should try ubuntu? which is better for my mobo? my pc is too old by the way..
[15:58] <phillw> it's easier to have the same system on both, so stick with lubuntu.
[15:59] <NyLes_> philw thanks for the opinion, thanks again ^^
[18:09] <Error404NotFound> I am trying to upgrade to lubuntu so i can contribute to testing, but when i try it i get http://pastebin.com/HM9pgMA5
[18:13] <holstein> Error404NotFound: you are trying to upgrade 11.10 to 12.04? using apt-on-cd?
[18:13] <Error404NotFound> yes
[18:14] <Error404NotFound> holstein: download alpha-2 for now using zsync
[18:14] <Error404NotFound> downloaded*
[18:14] <Error404NotFound> forgive my english, its 4am and i just wanna upgrade before i leave for sleep :)
[18:17] <holstein> Error404NotFound: cool.. check out #ubuntu+1 for 12.04 support
[18:17] <holstein> i would just download a daily and install
[18:17] <Error404NotFound> holstein: ok ^_^
[18:17] <Error404NotFound> holstein: had this downloaded for some time, need to experiment and if it works get to daily.
[18:18] <holstein> Error404NotFound: then, you should get a new one anyway
[18:19] <Error404NotFound> holstein: ja wohl, mein Fuhrer :)
[18:19] <holstein> ?
[18:20] <Error404NotFound> holstein: means yes sir
[18:20] <holstein> :)
[18:22] <Error404NotFound> download daily build, 10m left.
[18:23] <Error404NotFound> downloading*
[18:23] <Error404NotFound> man, i am a shame to germans :P
[21:02] <iceroot> maybe someone on 12.04 (installed with 11.10 or lower) can have a look here if i am getting something wrong https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/+bug/937248
[21:03] <iceroot> and installed the system with the normal kernel (not pae, not amd64)
[21:06] <Unit193> 12.04 has PAE by default, as long as it's supported.
[21:06] <iceroot> Unit193: i dont have the pae kernel but lubuntu-desktop is installing the pae-headers
[21:06] <iceroot> and i dont want them
[21:07] <iceroot> i dont see a reason to install pae headers but not the pae-kernel and i am still using normal x86 kernel
[21:08] <iceroot> and i am not sure if i did something wrong of it is the normal case when you install 11.10 with x86, go to 12.04 and habe pae-headers but not a pae-kernel
[21:08] <iceroot> and also its installing the normal headers
[21:08] <Unit193> At any rate, they'll comment on the bug report.
[21:37] <phillw> iceroot: I *think* you may have to use alternate.
[21:40] <Unit193> I'd say remove it, see what happens. (or simulate remove)
[21:45] <phillw> iceroot: I know a couple of the guys on the 'main' forum area have been installing non-pae lubuntu and testing it. But, I can get them to also test to see if that stuff is being dragged into an already small disk space.
[21:59] <iceroot> phillw: would be great
[22:01] <phillw> iceroot: is this yours? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/937248
[22:01] <iceroot> phillw: yes
[22:01] <phillw> okies, I'll ask for it to be checked.
[22:02] <iceroot> phillw: thank you alot. i would do it myself but i dont have another machine here for testing (or some ressources for a vm)
[22:02]  * uskerine looks for recommendation on the most stable office platform: libreoffice, openoffice or ibm symphony
[22:02] <phillw> thanks for the bug report, at least there is something to go on instead of "IT DOESN'T WORK"
[22:02] <iceroot> uskerine: libreoffice for the best supported in (l)ubuntu
[22:02] <phillw> uskerine: libeoffice is now the most supported.
[22:03] <Unit193> uskerine: Say in #ubuntu-bots "What is the best software suite?"
[22:03] <uskerine> thanks
[22:03] <uskerine> i will keep with libreoffice then
[22:03] <uskerine> but i found it is not the most stable platform
[22:04] <uskerine> it hang up after 5 min usage (consistent bug when you try to copy style from one cell to the whole sheet)
[22:06] <Flazer> General question, anyone have issues trying to get built in sd card readers to work under Linux?
[22:08] <iceroot> phillw: if i have bugs in lubuntu and i guess its not happening on ubuntu, can i also contact our qa-team about that? or do we test only lubuntu?
[22:09] <iceroot> most of them are "i guess that lubuntu-desktop has a missing dependency and i guess its working in ubuntu"
[22:10] <phillw> iceroot: is it only happening on lubuntu, or have you checked with ubuntu?
[22:11] <iceroot> phillw: i can not check with ubuntu
[22:11] <iceroot> no ressources
[22:12] <phillw> iceroot: i know a couple of people who can - I have emailed them to check the bug report out. But, you must be patient - it could several days for them to get to my request.
[22:12] <iceroot> phillw: of course, no problem about the time
[22:12] <phillw> If you have heard nothing in 7 days, give me a poke in the ribs & I will check progress for you.
[22:12] <iceroot> phillw: most of the bugs i know how to fix/life with them, its just "others should not get the bugs"
[22:13] <phillw> iceroot: that is because lubuntu is for low-spec machines - but this discussion is better followed up in #lubuntu-offtopic and away from our main, logged, support channel :)
[22:14] <iceroot> phillw: ok
[22:15] <iceroot> and my machine is low spec :) (4gb /, 630mhz, 512mb ram) :)
[22:16] <phillw> iceroot: please /join #lubuntu-offtopic
[22:16] <iceroot> phillw: no need for that, i will stop it
[22:16] <iceroot> phillw: thanks for the help
[22:17] <phillw> if the system is installing PAE onto a non-PAE system - quite simply, it is a bug. I have asked someone to verify it.
[22:18] <phillw> well, not PAE, but all the 'bits'.
[22:18] <phillw> more than that, I cannot do.
[23:54] <taipres> i'm disapointed lubuntu live cd is cmdline
[23:54] <taipres> don't get why you guys didn't copy ubuntus GUI live cd
[23:59] <phillw> taipres: ?


[17:20] <Fernando-Basso[m> How many people are responsible for maintaining Xubuntu?
[18:41] <csanyipal> Hi,
[18:42] <csanyipal> when I do this 'sudo apt install moodle' it wants to install apache, but I have already installed nginx and want to use nginx with moodle. How to avoid installing apache with moodle?
[19:02] <gnrp> csanyipal: Did you try the `--no-install-recommends` flat?
[19:39] <csanyipal> No, I did not try it, but I will now.
[19:41] <csanyipal> The 'sudo apt install --no-install-recommends moodle' wants to install apache2-bin so this flat does not help.
[19:44] <brainwash> !info moodle
[19:45] <brainwash> csanyipal: maybe of interest bug 1695466
[19:47] <brainwash> also, it was removed in 20.04 due to unsolved security issues
[19:52] <csanyipal> brainwash: apache2 was removed from dependencies packages of moodle?
[19:52] <csanyipal> in 20.04?
[19:53] <brainwash> I meant that moodle was removed
[19:53] <brainwash> no moodle in 20.04
[19:55] <brainwash> it seems to depend on apache2 OR httpd
[19:55] <brainwash> and httpd is a virtual package
[19:55] <brainwash> provided by aolserver4-core, aolserver4-daemon, apache2, ebhttpd, lighttpd, micro-httpd, mini-httpd, nginx-core, nginx-extras, nginx-full, nginx-light, tntnet, webfs, yaws
[19:56] <brainwash> how did you install nginx?
[19:56] <csanyipal> sudo apt install nginx
[19:57] <brainwash> so, any of the listed nginx-* packages should be present on your system, right?
[19:59] <csanyipal> These packages are not installed with nginx: nginx-extras nginx-full nginx-light.
[20:00] <brainwash> -core is?
[20:00] <csanyipal> -core is, automatically installed.
[20:01] <brainwash> that should satisfy the dependency requirement I'd think
[20:01] <csanyipal> And I can open the default nginx webpage here, on localhost.
[20:02] <csanyipal> OK Thank you for informations! I am going now to sleep. Bye!
[20:14] <lighterowl> what in god's name is aolserver4
[20:14]  * lighterowl checks.
[20:14] <lighterowl> oh


[10:22] <astraljava> Len-nb: Interesting forward on the mailing list, thanks! Gotta read more about it on a better time. Might be something worthwhile for me to investigate further.
[11:23] <smartboyhw> zequence, do you have a blog?
[11:46] <zequence-s> smartboyhw, Hi
[11:47] <smartboyhw> zequence-s, hi. Do you have a blog?
[11:49] <zequence-s> smartboyhw, About you applying to the -dev team, I talked with Scott about this, and we both agreed that since you are not actively working on any Ubuntu Studio source, we could not motivate including you to that team. It's not that we think you are not competent. It's just following logic. And I would prefer not only you work on the source, but you have goals with the development of the source, that corresponds with Ubuntu Studio goals.
[11:49] <zequence-s>  It's really the same for all teams. If you do work that relates to the team, it is logical to admit you.
[11:49] <zequence-s> smartboyhw, Nope. I don't blog much
[11:49] <smartboyhw> zequence-s: I know.......
[11:50] <smartboyhw> zequence-s: Just wondering whether you can add a blog to Planet Ubuntu
[11:50] <zequence-s> It's not important which teams you are member of. It's much more important what you are actually contributing. this is why you don't see Len apart of many teams. Not even the Ubuntu membership team
[11:51] <zequence-s> I don't feel any need to start blogging just now :)
[11:51] <smartboyhw> zequence-s: LL
[11:51] <smartboyhw> s/LL/LOL
[11:53] <zequence-s> smartboyhw, Currently I feel very happy about your contribution on the QA side, and the work you do there is worth a lot to Ubuntu Studio
[11:53] <smartboyhw> zequence-s: Just refuse it:P
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Hiyas scott-work
[15:47] <scott-work> HI smartboyhw


[12:57] <Spads> HURF BURF HAVE SOME MORE
[12:57] <Spads> er, wrong window
[02:35] <andi5> hello... can somebody tell me how to remove a remote bug watch in launchpad/malone? thanks in advance!
[05:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #64545 in launchpad "Can't unsubscribe teams from Support requests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64545


[10:37] <ramin> سلام
[10:38] <ramin> من یه مشکل تو اجرای مای اسکیول دارم اینم از ارور
[10:39] <ramin> -- Unit mysql.service has finished shutting down. January 19 23:11:51 ramin-System-Product-Name systemd[1]: mysql.service: Start request repeated too quickly. January 19 23:11:51 ramin-System-Product-Name systemd[1]: mysql.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. January 19 23:11:51 ramin-System-Product-Name systemd[1]: Failed to start MySQL Community Server. -- Subject: Unit mysql.service has failed -- Defined-By: systemd -- Suppor
[16:45] <SaleH> t


[00:59] <mup> PR snapcraft#3035 opened: repo: fix resolution of virtual build packages <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3035>
[02:24] <mup> PR snapd#8484 closed: tests: ignore<EMAIL_ADDRESS>hierarchy <Created by zyga> <Merged by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8484>
[02:26] <mup> PR snapcraft#3036 opened: travis: use stable channel for building snapcraft snap <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3036>
[05:07] <zyga> Good morning
[05:13] <mborzecki> morning
[05:21] <zyga> Hey Maciek
[05:23] <mborzecki> zyga: hey hey
[05:32] <zyga> Frosty morning
[05:32] <mborzecki> hm we should package the .3 release
[05:33] <zyga> Or make .4
[05:33] <zyga> Let’s wait for mvo
[05:33] <zyga> I suspect we may do .4
[05:33] <mborzecki> .4? interesting things happend over the weekend then?
[05:33] <zyga> Yes
[05:33] <zyga> Look at my PRs
[05:34] <zyga> There is one still open IIRC
[05:34] <zyga> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8481
[05:34] <mup> PR #8481: cmd/snap-update-ns: handle EBUSY when unlinking files <Bug> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8481>
[06:08] <zyga> Back from walk
[06:09] <zyga> I fixed random failures plaguing master over Easter
[06:09] <zyga> Hopefully all most common
[06:09] <zyga> I didn’t rebase that important fix though
[06:11] <zyga> I’ll make coffee and start the day soon
[06:12] <mup> PR snapd#8479 closed: release: 2.44.3 <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8479>
[06:16] <zyga> Hey mvo
[06:17] <mvo> zyga: good morning
[06:22] <the-mentor> good monring zyga
[06:24] <zyga> Hey the-mentor
[06:24] <zyga> mvo: so, I guess I need to ask
[06:24] <zyga> Do we do a .4
[06:24] <zyga> Or are we pushing for with .3 and buffer fixes for now
[06:24] <the-mentor> zyga i tried what you told me yesterday with the bind-file but from within the snap the file seems empty or cant be opened
[06:25] <zyga> What layout did you specify?
[06:25] <zyga> Note: you have to add the icd file into your snap for now
[06:25] <the-mentor> layout:
[06:25] <the-mentor>    /usr/share/vulkan/implicit_layer.d/nvidia_layers.json:
[06:25] <the-mentor>      bind-file: $SNAP/usr/share/vulkan/implicit_layer.d/nvidia_layers.json
[06:26] <zyga> Also note that mborzecki has some knowledge about vulkan and might offer advice
[06:26] <the-mentor> mborzecki howdy !
[06:27] <zyga>  Did you try using the same name as you had on your host originally?
[06:27] <the-mentor> i did
[06:27] <zyga> Not sure if this is relevant or not
[06:27] <the-mentor> i'm pointing too the file on the host
[06:27] <mborzecki> the-mentor: hm? vulkan?
[06:27] <mborzecki> haven't heard that name in a long time
[06:27] <the-mentor> mborzecki i'm trying to get vulkan to work in my sanp
[06:28] <zyga> Note that you have to put the actual file in your snap as well
[06:28] <the-mentor> since i'm trying to snap a few wine based games
[06:28] <zyga> On nvidia
[06:28] <the-mentor> zyga ahh i see but that file might be different depending on the host no ?
[06:30] <the-mentor> mborzecki seems like vulkan is the new hot stuff in the gaming world so many games work better with vulkan + dxvk
[06:31] <mvo> zyga: why would we do a .4 again, please remind me
[06:32] <mborzecki> the-mentor: isn't making sure that nvidia icd.d files are at the right place enough?
[06:34] <the-mentor>  mborzecki https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/vulkan-is-broken-on-snaps-when-using-nvidia-proprietary-drivers/16378
[06:34] <the-mentor> check out this post i've made with more info about my issue
[06:36] <zyga> mvo: to apply the patch fixing microk8s with strict confinement
[06:38] <mvo> zyga: 8481?
[06:38] <zyga> indeed
[06:39] <mvo> zyga: maybe we need a .4 - let me check the bugreport. do people need to enable robust namespace updates to make the fix work? iirc you mentioned yes(?)
[06:39] <zyga> oh, yes, they would
[06:39] <zyga> hmm, so that suggest 2.45 instead
[06:39] <zyga> but I don't know the details on their side, it just seems that if we need to do a .5 it's either now or not at all (because schedules)
[06:40] <mvo> zyga: yeah, if we need the robust namespace updates it suggests to get on with 45 asap
[06:41] <mborzecki> the-mentor: try setting VK_ICD_FILENAMES to point it to nvidia icd file and see if that makes vulkaninfo happy
[06:41] <the-mentor> mborzecki what do you mean ? using bind-file ?
[06:42] <mborzecki> the-mentor: no, snap run --shell, then probably something like: `VK_ICD_FILENAMES=/var/lib/snapd/hostfs/usr/share/vulkan/icd.d/nvidia_icd.json vulkaninfo`
[06:45] <the-mentor> mborzecki ok i'll give it a shot
[06:46] <mborzecki> the-mentor: hmm actually can you check that /usr/share/vulkan/icd.d/nvidia*.json exists inside the snap?
[06:46] <the-mentor> mborzecki i need classic confinment to access /var/lib/snapd/hostfs right ?
[06:46] <the-mentor> mborzecki it doesnt
[06:46] <the-mentor> so i added these layers config to try and make it available
[06:47] <the-mentor> layout:
[06:47] <the-mentor>    /usr/share/vulkan/implicit_layer.d/nvidia_layers.json:
[06:47] <the-mentor>      bind-file: $SNAP/usr/share/vulkan/implicit_layer.d/nvidia_layers.json
[06:48] <mborzecki> the-mentor: how about /var/lib/snapd/lib/vulkan/icd.d/nvidia*.json?
[06:49] <the-mentor> mborzecki that exists and has content
[06:49] <the-mentor> and i can read it from inside the snap
[06:49] <mborzecki> the-mentor: ok, cool, try running `VK_ICD_FILENAMES=/var/lib/snapd/lib/vulkan/icd.d/nvidia_icd.json vulkaninfo` and see if that works
[06:50] <mborzecki> the-mentor: perhaps it's enough to use layouts to move that file into /usr/share/vulkan/icd.d/
[06:50] <mborzecki> zyga: do layouts allow using /var/lib/snapd/lib?
[06:50] <the-mentor> that works
[06:50] <the-mentor> it ran vulkaninfo properly
[06:51] <zyga> mborzecki: no
[06:51] <zyga> mborzecki: you cannot put files there
[06:51] <mborzecki> zyga: hm i meant to use /var/lib/snapd/lib/ as a source
[06:52] <zyga> layouts cannot use anything but $SNAP, $SNAP_DATA or $SNAP_COMMON as source
[06:52] <zyga> a mount profile could use anything
[06:52] <mborzecki> hmm ok
[06:53] <mborzecki> the-mentor: so maybe as a workaround you'd need to have a wrapper that globs /usr/share/vulkan/icd.d* and /var/lib/snapd/lib/vulkan/icd.d/* and sets VK_ICD_FILENAMES to the list of all paths that were found
[06:54] <mborzecki> that or teaching the vulkan loader upstream about directories
[06:54] <the-mentor> mborzecki i already have a wrapper that launches the wine executable
[06:54] <mvo> zyga: are you working on the gh action partitioning currently? if not I can do it now
[06:55] <the-mentor> mborzecki so what should VK_ICD_FILENAMES look like ?
[06:55] <zyga> mvo: no, not yet
[06:55] <zyga> mvo: sure, give it a try :)
[06:55] <mborzecki> the-mentor: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Loader/blob/master/loader/LoaderAndLayerInterface.md#overriding-the-default-icd-usage
[06:55] <mborzecki> iirc it's file:file:file
[06:57] <the-mentor> mborzecki i wonder if there is a way to check within the snap what is the graphics driver and only overwrite if its nvidia propriatery
[06:57] <zyga> mborzecki: since we only have nvidia support via hostfs I would suggest to special case the single nvidia icd file
[06:57] <zyga> and nothing else
[06:57] <zyga> after all, there are no other .so files to load
[06:58] <mborzecki> the-mentor: i think you shouldn't need to, it's up to the loader and specific implementations to check that
[06:58] <the-mentor> mborzecki would the /usr/share/vulkan/icd.d/nvidia*.json file not exists if the drivers is not installed?
[06:59] <mvo> mborzecki: can 8464 be merged or does it need changes in the initrmafs first?
[07:00] <mborzecki> the-mentor: it likely wouldn't but i still think that app should not make assumptions about that, it's up the loader to figure out what's available by trying to load all implementations, find out which work, and give a choice to the vk consumer app
[07:01] <the-mentor> mborzecki ok let me send you what i'm going to set the VK_ICD_FILENAMES to so i can see if i understand it correctly
[07:02] <mborzecki> mvo: we're waiting for a fix in initramfs from xnox, there was some dependency problem on thursday where initramfs would stop before switch-root
[07:03] <the-mentor> mborzecki VK_ICD_FILENAMES=/var/lib/snapd/lib/vulkan/icd.d/nvidia_icd.json:$SNAP/usr/share/vulkan/icd.d/intel_icd.x86_64.json:$SNAP/usr/share/vulkan/icd.d/radeon_icd.x86_64.json
[07:03] <pstolowski> morning
[07:03] <mup> PR snapd#8296 closed: httputil/client_test.go: add two TLS version tests <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8296>
[07:04] <the-mentor> mborzecki just ran some testing on my system and it seems to know which file to use
[07:05] <zyga> good morning pawel
[07:05] <mborzecki> the-mentor: yeah, looks ok to me
[07:06] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[07:07] <mborzecki> the-mentor: let me put some notes in the topic
[07:07] <the-mentor> mborzecki ill rebuild the snap and see if it works in there. thank you very much for all the help
[07:19] <mup> PR snapd#8489 opened: github: partition the github action workflows <⛔ Blocked> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8489>
[07:21] <zyga> mvo: did you forget to git add?
[07:29] <mvo> zyga: no, it's still draft, want to make sure the right go version is picked up
[07:29] <zyga> ah ok :)
[07:39] <abeato> good morning! What would be the easiest way to get the sign-key-sha3-384 for a key registered by a user in the store?
[07:43] <pedronis> abeato: do you mean the key that signed the key itself?  that should be the store key
[07:43] <pedronis> or the hash of the key?
[07:43] <pedronis> abeato: what do you have as starting point?
[07:43] <abeato> pedronis, the hash that is used in assertions
[07:44] <abeato> pedronis, a key registered with snapcraft register-key
[07:46] <pedronis> abeato: snapcraft list-keys and snap keys shows exactly that under "SHA3-384..."
[07:47] <abeato> pedronis, I thinka that is public-key-sha3-384, not sign-key-sha3-384, by looking at the account-key assertion
[07:48] <pedronis> abeato: the sign-key-sha3-384 of a signed assertion matches the public-key-sha3-384 of the signing key
[07:48] <abeato> pedronis, as a side note, of course the information is in that asssertion, but to get it I had to create an image with ubuntu-image :)
[07:48] <pedronis> but maybe I still don't understand what you need
[07:49] <abeato> pedronis, I'd like to get that info to manually craft a system-user assertion
[07:50] <pedronis> abeato: you need the key to craft an assertion
[07:51] <xnox> mborzecki:  yes
[07:51] <abeato> pedronis, I have registered a key, which is shown by:
[07:51] <abeato>  $ snapcraft list-keys
[07:52] <abeato> *   labkey        -aWK1CFTXhjR8BpMMplySRp3hRS6AKD8q-mJglQDXxA9-1LknJVV5cEI2pExGj6c
[07:52] <abeato> I'd like to create a system-user assertion signed by that one
[07:52] <mup> PR snapd#8490 opened: cmd/snap-bootstrap: no error when not input devices are found <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8490>
[07:52] <pedronis> snap sign -k labkey
[07:52] <abeato> so I need to access sign-key-sha3-384
[07:53] <pedronis> -aWK1CFTXhjR8BpMMplySRp3hRS6AKD8q-mJglQDXxA9-1LknJVV5cEI2pExGj6c is what will end up in sign-key-sha3-384
[07:53] <pedronis> I don't think it helps you though
[07:53] <pedronis> you need snap sign -k labkey and the right json input
[07:54] <pedronis> unless I'm still missing what you are trying to do
[07:54] <abeato> pedronis, I am trying to create a system-user assertion
[07:54] <pedronis> snap sign -k labkey
[07:55] <pedronis> the sign-sha-3-384 is added by the tooling
[07:55] <abeato> pedronis, ah, got it, so I do not need sign-key-sha3-384 in the json, snap sign does that for me
[07:55] <abeato> thanks!
[07:55] <pedronis> yes, same as with model
[07:55] <abeato> right
[08:34] <mup> PR core18#98 closed: hooks: add symlinks for snapd's D-Bus configuration files <Created by jhenstridge> <Closed by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/98>
[08:41] <mup> PR core18#150 opened: static: make /etc/dbus-1/session.d writable <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/150>
[08:57] <zyga> small comment there jamesh
[08:58] <jamesh> zyga: as mentioned in the PR, I think it would probably be harmless to switch to just /etc/dbus-1 in core18 too
[08:58] <jamesh> zyga: I'd definitely go for /etc/dbus-1 for core20, yeah.
[08:59] <zyga> I don't know about 18 to be sure (it would be okay after testing)
[08:59] <zyga> just suggesting that we do it straight away for 20 :)
[08:59] <jamesh> maybe it's not worth it for core18
[09:00] <mborzecki> btw. anyoen remember why `snap debug boot-vars` is hidden?
[09:00] <zyga> nope
[09:00] <zyga> because we hide stuff left and right?
[09:04] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, idk ;)
[09:04] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, idk ;)
[09:05] <jamesh> zyga: https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/38
[09:05] <mup> PR core20#38: static: make all of /etc/dbus-1 writable <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/38>
[09:05] <mup> PR core20#38 opened: static: make all of /etc/dbus-1 writable <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/38>
[09:06] <pedronis> mborzecki: because it was introduced for our own tests, and never got a extra review/polish pass
[09:10] <mup> PR snapd#8491 opened: cmd/snap: do not hide debug boot-vars on core <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8491>
[09:14] <mborzecki> wonder whether pushing the error on classic is too far, one could try to inspect the root directories populated by snap image
[09:15] <pedronis> mborzecki: should it output = or :
[09:15] <pedronis> mborzecki: it was hidden not to have to find answers to all these questions
[09:25] <pedronis> mborzecki: mvo: we are getting failures now in travis with the devel go version
[09:26] <pedronis> some are obvious, one is not
[09:27] <mvo> pedronis: looking at it
[09:33] <zyga> is that go 1.14?
[09:37] <pedronis> no, it's really devel I think
[09:39] <mvo> it's annoying, it looks like even --channel=latest/edge is not failing yet
[09:40] <zyga> maybe not worth testing with devel then
[09:40] <mvo> (so travis is really ahread)
[09:44] <mvo> zyga: it's a good question, probably still worth it as it will eventually bite us. but yeah, kind of annoying if it happens out of the blue
[09:44] <mup> PR snapd#8492 opened: overlord: update tests to work with latest go <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8492>
[09:45] <zyga> mvo: I agree that there's some value in seeing what's on the horizon but I think we have enough things that are flaky; we need to find the right balance
[09:46] <mvo> zyga: yeah
[09:47] <pedronis> right now these tests are still required, I mentioned it because the keys one is puzzling/unclear what is going on
[09:47] <pedronis> the duration ones are trivial if annyoing
[09:47] <mup> PR snapd#8483 closed: snap-bootstrap: fix partition numbering in create-partitions <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by cmatsuoka> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8483>
[09:47] <pedronis> *annoying
[09:50] <mup> PR snapd#8461 closed: github: run non-canary if label is present <Run spread> <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8461>
[09:54] <mvo> pedronis: 8492 (go-latest) fixes passes on travis, so should be good
[09:55] <pedronis> ok, so the key one was a fluke?
[09:55] <mvo> pedronis: probably
[09:56] <mvo> pedronis: I don't even remember seeing it on the failure I looked at
[10:01] <mvo> zyga: I guess there is no "include" in workflows? I was looking into moving the common code out
[10:01] <zyga> mvo: maybe at yaml level
[10:02] <zyga> I don't think so
[10:36] <mvo> mwhudson: hey, I noticed that go/latest/edge was not updated in a couple of days, is that expected?
[10:36] <mwhudson> mvo: builds have been failing, i haven't looked at why
[10:37] <mwhudson> mvo: https://launchpad.net/~mwhudson/+snap/go-tip
[10:37] <zyga> maybe tests are not passing? ;-)
[10:37] <mwhudson> zyga: it's possible!
[10:37] <zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kBpBEI5J/
[10:38] <mwhudson> oh is that the hacks i put in for trusty i wonder
[10:38] <mvo> mwhudson: aha, that's fine, was mostly wondering if it's known
[10:39] <mwhudson> hm that wouldn't explain the failures on ppc64el
[10:39] <mwhudson> mvo: well someone asking makes it more likely that i'll look into it i guess
[10:40] <zyga> mwhudson: actually the same error is reported on other arhces
[10:40] <zyga> *arches
[10:40] <zyga> weird
[10:40] <mup> PR snapd#8490 closed: cmd/snap-bootstrap: no error when not input devices are found <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8490>
[10:40] <mvo> mwhudson: heh :) fwiw, we value it as a very useful way to test things
[10:40] <mvo> (it being go/latest/edge)
[10:40] <zyga> mvo: hush, don't tell anyone
[10:40] <zyga> it's our secret!
[10:41] <zyga> though there's one downside
[10:41] <zyga> makes you gray quickly
[10:46]  * zyga ventures into dbus
[10:50] <zyga> mborzecki: btw, not sure if you noticed
[10:50] <zyga> mborzecki: I changed the pulseaudio test on Friday
[10:50] <zyga> mborzecki: some lessons learned there
[10:51] <zyga> mborzecki: it needs more love though
[10:51] <zyga> mborzecki: the restore section is still racy
[10:51] <mborzecki> zyga: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8478 ?
[10:51] <mup> PR #8478: tests: fix racy pulseaudio tests <Created by zyga> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8478>
[10:51] <zyga> yes
[10:53]  * zyga is afk
[10:54] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, yeah, we should probably port the test
[10:55] <mborzecki> zyga: although masking seems fine now, the test starts its own pulseaudio with a specific config
[11:05] <mup> PR snapd#8491 closed: cmd/snap: do not hide debug boot-vars on core <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8491>
[11:12] <the-mentor> mborzecki i'm also seeing this issue
[11:12] <the-mentor> libGL error: No matching fbConfigs or visuals found
[11:12] <the-mentor> libGL error: failed to load driver: swrast
[11:12] <the-mentor> X Error:  GLXBadContext
[11:12] <the-mentor>   Request Major code 151 (GLX)
[11:12] <the-mentor>   Request Minor code 6 ()
[11:12] <the-mentor>   Error Serial #174
[11:12] <the-mentor>   Current Serial #173
[11:12] <mup> PR #174: added missing hyphen to autoupdate config example <Created by chipaca> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/174>
[11:13] <mup> PR #173: asserts: generate just a couple private keys and reuse them across tests <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/173>
[11:13] <the-mentor> any ideas ?
[11:14] <the-mentor> zyga maybe you know ?
[11:17] <zyga> re
[11:17] <zyga> mborzecki: I saw a failure just now where it failed because XDG_RUNTIME_DIR was still busy
[11:18] <zyga> mborzecki: so some work required on making shutdown not race
[11:18] <zyga> the-mentor: strace the app, I saw a failure where it looked for an innocent looking file
[11:18] <zyga> the-mentor: and failed entirely when that file was absent
[11:18] <the-mentor> zyga strace?
[11:18] <zyga> the-mentor: it's a PCI ID to driver name mapping file
[11:18] <ogra> snap run --strace
[11:18] <zyga> the-mentor: are you familiar with strace?
[11:19] <the-mentor> no i'm not
[11:19] <the-mentor> but ill try it out
[11:19] <zyga> the-mentor: it's a very useful analysis tool, read the manual page but it's generally showing interactions with the system at the system call level
[11:19] <zyga> the-mentor: so you see which syscalls are executed and if they succeed or not
[11:19] <zyga> the-mentor: you can use it to see which files are being accessed, for example
[11:19] <zyga> the-mentor: strace -e openat ls
[11:20] <the-mentor> zyga ok thats good to know
[11:21] <the-mentor> zyga how can i filter only open files with the snap strace?
[11:21] <the-mentor> since its a wine app there is tons and tons of info
[11:21] <zyga> the-mentor: --strace= is an argument you can pass to snap run
[11:22] <zyga> you can pass strace options this way
[11:22] <zyga> you can then use it to filter by system calls that access files such as stat, open etc
[11:22] <zyga> remember that you have to give the real system call name
[11:22] <zyga> e.g. openat vs open, 2 or 3 suffixes on some
[11:22] <zyga> requires some practice to get the right result
[11:22] <zyga> the-mentor: you can use strace -o to save the result to a file
[11:22] <zyga> and analyze this way
[11:23] <zyga> may be easier
[11:23] <zyga> the-mentor: you can also look for ENOENT error
[11:23] <zyga> that's something that was searched for but not found
[11:23] <zyga> should help you find the right things
[11:23] <the-mentor> ok i'll give it a shot and see what i can find
[11:23] <the-mentor> i'm happy that the vulkan smoketest now works
[11:33] <pstolowski> hey cachio
[11:34] <pstolowski> i've been waiting for you ;)
[11:42] <cachio> pstolowski, hey
[11:44] <mborzecki> the-mentor: so vulkan works now, but gl does not yet?
[11:45] <pstolowski> cachio: hey, see private message
[12:09] <mvo> cmatsuoka: good morning! I pushed a tiny commit to 8476 to make it build on fedora/debian
[12:09] <mvo> cmatsuoka: just fyi
[12:12] <mvo> cmatsuoka: hrm, apparently my push there is somehow incomplete, I took it from the other tpm one, I have a look after lunch (but feel free to push a fix yourself if its something obvious, probably just something with -tags quoting
[12:12] <mvo> )
[12:14] <cmatsuoka> mvo: thanks! yeah, I was unsure about cherry-picking your commit from the other PR or just waiting for the other one to land and then merge master to have things automagically working
[12:14] <cmatsuoka> mvo: I'll check what's wrong and fix it
[12:15] <mup> PR core20#39 opened: ensure that /host exists <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/39>
[12:15] <mborzecki> mvo: ^^
[12:18] <pedronis> ijohnson: hi, I'm going to work a bit on #8488 to avoid the back and forth
[12:18] <mup> PR #8488: bootloader: add efi pkg for reading efi variables <UC20> <⛔ Blocked> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8488>
[12:24] <ijohnson> pedronis sure thanks
[12:24] <ijohnson> And hello again by the way, hope you all enjoyed your long weekend
[12:26] <mup> PR snapd#8493 opened: If finalrd is available, do not run snapd.system-shutdown service <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8493>
[12:28] <mup> PR core20#39 closed: ensure that /host exists <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/39>
[12:28] <mup> PR snapd#8494 opened: tests: preserve size for centos images on spread.yaml <Simple 😃> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8494>
[12:29] <mup> PR core20#38 closed: static: make all of /etc/dbus-1 writable <Created by jhenstridge> <Merged by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/38>
[12:51] <abeato> mvo, hey, is https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1872486 under your radar?
[12:51] <mup> Bug #1872486: snap prepare-image gets confused when the default track is not "latest" <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872486>
[13:02] <the-mentor> mborzecki i think that gl was broken before but yea vulkan works and gl doesnt
[13:03] <the-mentor> mborzecki i'm adding mesa-utils to the snap so i can get more info
[13:06] <oSoMoN> jdstrand, you might be interested in https://git.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/+git/snap-from-source/commit/?id=82ee1ce51514ee197ee6fd908c9f0af881f1f2ac
[13:11] <mvo> abeato: thanks, not on my radar yet
[13:22] <the-mentor> mborzecki looks like glxgears and glxinfo are working as expected
[13:22] <the-mentor> maybe its related to wine somehow but it looks like i'm not the only one that has these issues
[13:48]  * zyga -> lunch
[14:34] <zyga> oSoMoN: interesting
[14:34] <zyga> oSoMoN: I should talk to you about the snapctl APIs for checking and getting information about updates
[14:37] <mup> PR core20#40 opened: hook-tests: fix extra files test <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/40>
[14:37] <oSoMoN> zyga, I'd be very interested in those, what I implemented for the chromium snap is only a stop-gap
[14:38] <mborzecki> mvo: trivial fix for issue that jamesh spotted ^^
[14:40] <mup> PR snapcraft#3036 closed: travis: use stable channel for building snapcraft snap <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3036>
[14:56] <mup> PR core20#40 closed: hook-tests: fix extra files test <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/40>
[15:06] <ijohnson> abeato: mvo: I confirmed https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1872486 and assigned it to pedronis, perhaps it should go to someone else, but it does seem to be a bad bug for building images
[15:06] <mup> Bug #1872486: snap prepare-image gets confused when the default track is not "latest" <snapd:Triaged by pedronis> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872486>
[15:15] <mup> PR pc-amd64-gadget#42 opened: Hide menu by default <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/pc-amd64-gadget/pull/42>
[15:16]  * cachio afk
[15:17] <zyga> oSoMoN: I'll do my best to be able to give you those in the next few weeks
[15:18] <oSoMoN> zyga, excellent, I'm looking forward to it
[15:19] <mvo> ijohnson: thanks
[15:25] <mup> PR core20#41 opened: 001-extra-packages.chroot: add dosfstools to get mkfs.vfat <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/41>
[15:26] <mup> Issue core18#151 opened: Please set templates on issues & PRs requring links to core20 issue & PR <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/issue/151>
[15:47] <mup> Issue core20#37 closed: Missing mkfs.vfat, should have tests for mkfs.vfat and mkfs.ext4 existing <Created by anonymouse64> <Closed by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/issue/37>
[15:47] <mup> PR core20#41 closed: 001-extra-packages.chroot: add dosfstools to get mkfs.vfat <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/41>
[15:51] <mup> PR core20#42 opened: drop `unminimize` instructions that are not applicable on Core <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/42>
[15:54] <mup> PR core18#149 closed: hooks/motd: cleanup dangling symlink, fix typo <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by sil2100> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/149>
[16:09] <abeato> ijohnson, thanks - it can certainly be a problem when including snaps in required-snaps. Being able to set the track in the model would help
[16:26] <jdstrand> oSoMoN: cool!
[16:42] <mup> PR snapd#8492 closed: overlord: update tests to work with latest go <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8492>
[16:44] <mvo> cmatsuoka: I pushed a fix to 8476 for debian-sid
[16:44] <mvo> cmatsuoka: it's a bit ugly but *shrug*
[16:44] <cmatsuoka> mvo: thanks!
[16:44]  * zyga takes a break for coffee
[16:44] <zyga> testing dbus is not fun
[16:44] <zyga> or
[16:44] <zyga> it will be fun when it's easy
[17:17]  * zyga fails and EODs
[17:17] <zyga> oh well
[17:18] <zyga> tomorrow will be better
[17:22] <mup> PR snapcraft#3035 closed: repo: fix resolution of virtual build packages <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3035>
[17:22] <mup> PR snapcraft#3037 opened: plugins: introduce v2.CMakePlugin <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3037>
[17:35] <pedronis> cmatsuoka: ijohnson|lunch:  updated #8488
[17:35] <mup> PR #8488: bootloader: add efi pkg for reading efi variables <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8488>
[17:36] <cmatsuoka> pedronis: thanks!
[17:46] <mup> PR snapcraft#3038 opened: travis: add and ship a self-hosting build of snapcraft <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3038>
[17:52] <mup> PR snapcraft#3039 opened: build providers: setup initial apt source configuration <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3039>
[18:06] <mup> PR snapd#8495 opened: cmd/snap-bootstrap: specify a 512-bit key size for the LUKS2 container <Created by chrisccoulson> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8495>
[18:12] <cachio> xnox, hey
[18:13] <cachio> I see this lines in journal log when a vm with secure boot is killed
[18:13] <cachio> xnox, Apr 14 18:09:41 apr141722-614284 kernel: kvm [61215]: vcpu0, guest rIP: 0xffffffffb72788b4 disabled perfctr wrmsr: 0xc2 data 0xffff
[18:13] <mup> PR #14: Bugfix/lp1488114 import msg <Created by mvo5> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/14>
[18:13] <cachio> any idea how to get any extra information about the error?
[18:19] <mup> PR snapcraft#3040 opened: V2 autotools plugin <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3040>
[19:14] <mup> PR snapd#8493 closed: data/systemd: do not run snapd.system-shutdown if finalrd is available <UC20> <Created by xnox> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8493>
[19:34] <mup> PR snapcraft#3038 closed: travis: add and ship a self-hosting build of snapcraft <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3038>
[20:05] <cmatsuoka> cachio: I moved my test that depends on tpm to main/nested/classic and it was successful
[20:29] <xnox> cachio:  read kernel source code? increase kernel verbosity of messages for the kvm module?
[20:30] <xnox> cachio:  chat with kvm maintainers ie. #ubuntu-server / cpaelzer etc?
[20:38] <cachio> xnox, ok, I'll do taht
[20:49] <cachio> cmatsuoka, nice
[20:49] <cmatsuoka> cachio: but wait, it also worked when it was not supposed to so the result is still inconclusive :)
[20:50] <roadmr> you just need a boolean negation then, right?
[20:51] <cachio> cmatsuoka, ok
[20:51] <cmatsuoka> I just want my tests to fail! they're all passing
[20:55] <cachio> cmatsuoka, do yo uwant to share the test?
[20:56] <cmatsuoka> cachio: I'm updating them, some changes in key encryption
[20:58] <cachio> cmatsuoka, nice, just ping me if you need any help
[21:41] <mup> PR snapcraft#3041 opened: V2 python plugin <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3041>
[22:51] <mup> PR snapd#8496 opened: interfaces/apparmor: use differently templated policy for non-core bases <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8496>
[22:58] <jdstrand> kenvandine: fyi, ^
[23:09] <mup> PR snapd#8497 opened: boot/bootstate20: re-factor kernel methods to use new interface for state <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8497>
[23:11] <mup> PR snapd#8498 opened: run-checks: use consistent "Checking ..." style messages <Simple 😃> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8498>
[23:44] <cmatsuoka> ijohnson: still there?
[23:47] <kenvandine> jdstrand: awesome!


[22:29] <nixternal> I had that same problem and it affected my Qt Jambi bindings for Eclipse, and Eclipse and Qt of all people told me how to fix it, and it fixed firefox as well
[22:29] <imbrandon> vocx, sure, you mean the ubuntu programing forums ?
[22:29] <jpatrick> vocx: VB? :|
[22:29] <ubunturos> nixternal: QUESTIONS: any plans to include few development tools on future Kubuntu versions?
[22:29] <jpatrick> what they need is a course in C++ :)
[22:29] <nosrednaekim> or python...
[22:29] <nixternal> vocx: if they can do VB, they can do c#, can pick up Python, and eventually learn c++, so of course we could mentor them as well...Only thing I would stress though is patience since we are a small, but amazing crew
[22:29] <ubunturos> and on Qt :)
[22:29] <imbrandon> fwiw gambas can compile MOST vb 6 apps and it uses QT
[22:30] <nosrednaekim> ubunturos: like which tools?
[22:30] <ubunturos> nosrednaekim: IDEs or compilers etc?
[22:30] <nixternal> ubunturos: more than likely not due to disc size, but I will not say never to that one
[22:30] <imbrandon> nixternal, jpatrick, vocx, fwiw gambas can compile MOST vb 6 apps and it uses QT
[22:30] <ubunturos> nixternal: ah
[22:30] <jpatrick> "I think we're the best" -- Riddell
[22:30] <nixternal> WE ARE THE BEST -- nixternal
[22:30] <nixternal> :)
[22:30] <nosrednaekim> don't matter what you THINK...
[22:31] <ubunturos> nixternal: how does knoppix get it?
[22:31] <stdin> ubunturos: probably because they don't have oo.o :p
[22:31] <marius> nixternal: but I have gtk-qt-engine and all the GTK apps have the scrollbar ugly :(
[22:31] <nixternal> I have no clue..I haven't looked at Knoppix in a few years
[22:31] <ubunturos> stdin: they do have OO
[22:31] <nixternal> marius: in system settings, check out the GTK stuff, I think I installed the clearlooks engine
[22:32] <nosrednaekim> yeah... is there any plan to enable gtk-qt theming by defualt?
[22:32] <stdin> ubunturos: really? I haven't used it in years and they didn't then
[22:32] <marius> nixternal: I have QT setup for my GTK apps
[22:32] <nixternal> OH, Knoppix doesn't have all of the kernel modules, so that could be a little bit as well
[22:32] <nixternal> marius: when this is over, I will let you know what my setup is so you can check it out
[22:32] <ubunturos> stdin: they do have it now
[22:32] <vocx> imbrandon, nixternal jpatrick you should recruit people in Programming Talk in ubuntuforums.org then. And I hope you have a lot of patience. Also what is the best IDE??? They need IDES, otherwise they skillz diminish.
[22:32] <marius> nixternal: thanks :)
[22:32] <jpatrick> vocx: please point the hopefuls to #kubuntu-devel and we'll get them sorted..
[22:32] <nixternal> vocx: lol
[22:33] <jpatrick> Kate FTW
[22:33] <nixternal> actually, vocx you have a good idea, I think we should be head hunting in there
[22:33] <ubunturos> nixternal: umm. I guess, it isn't some special compression algorithm that knoppix might be using
[22:33] <nixternal> I doubt it, because if they were, we would as well :) and so would every other distro
[22:33] <nixternal> marius: "Use another style:" I have Clearlooks
[22:33] <ubunturos> vocx: understand what's under the hood and then switch to the IDE ;)
[22:33] <mzungu> what about those of us who learned programming from Charles Babbage ;)
[22:34] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[22:34] <giftnudel_> Me as a gnome user will tell you that your plan to world domination by recruting will never work
[22:35] <Jucato> Me as a kde user will tell you that gnome's plan to stop our plan to world domination recruiting will never work :)
[22:35] <nixternal> woohah
[22:35] <imbrandon> ok no DE wars
[22:35] <marius> nixternal: I understand.... but I want QT to emulate the GTK apps
[22:35] <nixternal> if you don't have anything positive, then please go elsewhere, thanks
[22:35] <nixternal> ahh...then ya marius there will have to be some serious hacking, on Qt's side
[22:36] <giftnudel_> that wasn't meant to be insulting or start a flame war :)
[22:36] <marius> nixternal: and if I put QT... then all my GTK apps (Firefox, GIMP, Synaptic) are emulated with Domino.....only the scrollbar is ugly at corners
[22:36] <nosrednaekim> do these people that we are head hunting use kubuntu or ubuntu?
[22:36] <marius> nixternal: oki doki then :)
[22:36] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: we want to get the ones who are interested no doubt
[22:36] <vocx> ubunturos, "what's the closest thing to MSVC++ in Windows.... Kate? what's that? I want a click-and-compile-button"
[22:36] <nixternal> vocx: Eclipse
[22:36] <marius> The KDE desktop refresh sucks? Can this be fixed somehow? I mean, and I bet I am not the only one here with this problem, when I download stuff directly on my desktop (images and archives especially) sometimes they appear, someday they don't, or they have incomplete names.....and I know that the files are there because I can look at the desktop folder from Konqueror.
[22:37] <giftnudel_> I personally think that it's difficult to get people to work on your project long time
[22:37] <giftnudel_> but those that stay will surely be good :)
[22:37] <nixternal> can't say that I have experienced that marius since I don't like anything on my desktop..I will have to check it out though and see if there is something we can do about it
[22:37] <ubunturos> vocx: there's something called as Gambas similar to VB - and Qt toolkit for similar
[22:37] <nixternal> giftnudel_: that is true
[22:38] <nixternal> in all cases at that
[22:38] <nixternal> being a free software developer takes a lot of patience, the ability and the want to learn, and good burn-out prevention as well
[22:38] <ubunturos> vocx: though, you configure kate to compile on clicks or shortcuts
[22:38] <vocx> ubunturos, I know. But try explaining that to them.
[22:38] <giftnudel_> nixternal: I lack the last :)
[22:38] <nixternal> you and I both
[22:39] <marius> nixternal: it's not from Kubuntu.... don't get me wrong... It's from KDE.. and it's an old bug :( I use the desktop 10 hours per day in my work...
[22:39] <nixternal> giftnudel_: beer doesn't work anymore :)
[22:39] <ubunturos> vocx: get those who are *really* interested. :)
[22:39] <marius> nixternal: and another 4 @ home :D
[22:40] <nixternal> ubunturos and vocx: your conversation shows the lack for documentation always, and documentation is always a great way for new people to get their feet wet...that is how I started in 1994 by submitting docs to the Linux doc Project
[22:40] <nixternal> and with Kubuntu as well
[22:40] <ubunturos> nixternal: I fail to understand - how?
[22:40] <nixternal> Documentation can actually provide you the feeling that you are developing something, especially as a new/young developer...and it is quite trivial to learn
[22:41]  * ubunturos had quite a few submissions to documentation for KDE, which failed for unknown reasons :(
[22:41] <nixternal> ubunturos: if you document, that means you have to learn the application you are documenting, or in this case, the distro, and Linux, and the applications...so you tend to go behind the scenes and learn the little things that make development tick
[22:41] <ubunturos> nixternal: true.
[22:41] <Jucato> ubunturos: it would be great if you tried to find out why they failed :)
[22:41] <nixternal> after a while it is easy for you to start packaging, then creating small patches, and before you know it, you are a full fledged developer making millions!
[22:42] <nixternal> well, the millions might be out of the ballpark, but you get the idea :)
[22:42] <stdin> everyone can do me a HUGE favour, trawl wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com and add Kubuntu instructions to Gnome-centric pages, so I don't have to do it *every* time
[22:42] <ubunturos> Jucato: I couldn't - even after attempting to contact the developers
[22:42] <marius> nixternal: KGet, KCalc, KNemo, Konq-Kim, KFTPGrabber, KRename, Superkaramba can be installed by default in future versions? Some are very important (Kget for example)! Knemo provides those little internet monitors in the sys tray like Ubuntu desktop has:)
[22:42] <ubunturos> nixternal: right
[22:42] <nixternal> imbrandon: do you know how to work with Gambas well? I see a tutorial or something coming on that could possibly attract those types of developers
[22:42]  * Jucato votes for kget by default
[22:42] <nosrednaekim> yes... +1 for kget
[22:42] <marius> hehe
[22:43] <Jucato> marius: SpeedCrunch is there (for KCalc)
[22:43] <imbrandon> nixternal, sure, i can write one up for tomarrow
[22:43] <marius> Jucato: i HATE it
[22:43] <marius> :)
[22:43] <stdin> someone, anyone, help me out on the wiki pages. all you need is a launchpad account
[22:43] <marius> Jucato: Kcalc is more simple and productive!
[22:44] <nixternal> KGet +1, KCalc really don't care as I use Katapult for my calc, Konq-Kim when it decides to work (we need to fix that), KFTPGrabber isn't necessary with the ftp kio (that is what the core-devs will tell ya), KRename (check who the maintainer of that package is in Debian and Ubuntu...yup, you got it, me :) so I am all for it)
[22:44] <nosrednaekim> I see alot of Dev requests on the kubuntu-devel mailing list
[22:44] <nixternal> SuperKaramba I think should be in by default as well
[22:44] <nosrednaekim> no....
[22:44] <marius> yey!
[22:44] <nosrednaekim> -1 for superkramba
[22:44] <nixternal> don't say Conky
[22:44] <nixternal> LiquidWeather is the greatest widget/app ever!
[22:44] <nixternal> :)
[22:44]  * Jucato -1 SK, given the slight instability... unless we find very stable themes
[22:44] <vocx> I want to tell you that the single reason I did not install Kubuntu 6.06 in the first place was because the Live CD messed up the screen resolution and fonts, so it was impossible to install. Maybe it can still be fixed... I've been lazy.
[22:44] <nosrednaekim> I propose..... NOTHIN!
[22:45] <nixternal> it works great for me
[22:45] <nixternal> !works for me
[22:45] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
[22:45] <marius> nixternal: I ONLY use Liquid Weather
[22:45] <nixternal> hehe
[22:45] <nixternal> marius: if SuperKaramba doesn't get in, the least I could do is at least document it as an option and of course show it off..which just gave me a new idea
[22:45] <marius> nixternal: cool :)
[22:46] <nixternal> vocx: Kubuntu 7.10 is the first distro to ever work from teh LiveCD with my 21" wide screen (no-name brand piece of junk)
[22:46] <Jucato> always show it off, and recommend high quality, stable, non-resource intesive themes
[22:46] <marius> nixternal: why do you say konq-kim doesn't work? I use it all day long...never had problems with it
[22:46] <nosrednaekim> !worksforme
[22:46] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[22:47] <nixternal> I will have to look at it...I had a lot of problems with it in the past...there was a specific feature that I can't remember right now that I could never get to work
[22:47] <marius> ohh...ok
[22:47] <nixternal> imbrandon: groovy on the gambas stuff...didn't see ya up there, caught you in my irssi highlight winder
[22:47] <vocx> nixternal, about you commenting about documentation and then becoming a full developer, there was a nice thread in the forums about a programmer's job, essentially summarizing it to: "programmers aren't support guys and they shouldn't be working on documentation. How do you become a paid programmer in Free Software."
[22:48] <ubunturos> QUESTION: Is it usually best to submit docs (how-tos) to the K app developer or Kubuntu Developer ?
[22:48] <nixternal> vocx: you show me a programmer who works for a living and doesn't document, and I will show you the worst application in the world for its users
[22:48] <nixternal> they wouldn't teach docsys for a reason now would they :)
[22:48] <nixternal> err
[22:48] <nixternal> doxygen
[22:49] <marius> nixternal: K Menu Gnome (http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K+Menu+Gnome+(Debian+Package)?content=31031) is very useful application when you install Kubuntu over Ubuntu (like I do) as it makes a separate menu for all the GNOME apps and cleans and rearange all the item in KMenu... do you think it can be installed by default in future versions of Kubuntu?
[22:49] <ubunturos> marius: +1 for the question
[22:49] <marius> hehe
[22:49] <nosrednaekim> +1 for that!
[22:49] <marius> :D
[22:49] <nixternal> vocx: in free software, it is your love, your passion, that wants you to create the greatest application ever..and besides bugs, the other important thing is the documentation...you wouldn't expect another person to be able to understand your code and what you want right?
[22:50] <nixternal> marius: something we can definitely look at...but remember, if we add anything new by default, that means we have to remove something
[22:50] <nixternal> and I am all for removing OO.o and replacing it with KOffice anyways :)
[22:51] <ubunturos> ah, KOffice
[22:51] <marius> nixternal: but all these are little apps that does a LOT of "healing" for Kubuntu :D
[22:51] <Jucato> ubunturos: regarding your doc question, you can approach nixternal later in #kubuntu-devel to help you, since he's doing doc work for both KDE and Kubuntu
[22:51] <nixternal> is that packaged at all for Ubuntu? that would stink if it wasn't
[22:51] <ubunturos> Jucato: right. ok
[22:51] <marius> +1 for Kword
[22:51] <vocx> nixternal, oh... and he also said that in his opinion, "a lot of linux applications were badly designed" so he basically wanted to develop applications, sell them to Canonical and move on.  I'll get you the thread, it's a nice discussion.
[22:51] <nixternal> did I miss a doc question?
[22:51] <ubunturos> nixternal: not a problem, please continue
[22:52] <nixternal> vocx: ya, I would like to read, and definitely not comment..I have worked in Microsoft shops before, and a majority couldn't dev a good HID or UI to save their lives
[22:52] <marius> nixternal: it is, even for amd64... i use the Kubuntu 64-bit version ;)
[22:52] <nixternal> as do i
[22:53] <nosrednaekim> -1 for kword
[22:53] <nixternal> what else is weighing on people's minds?
[22:53] <nixternal> Emacs then! :)
[22:53]  * nosrednaekim likes vim and kate
[22:53] <marius> nixternal: here's the package for K Menu Gnome (all architectures) http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K+Menu+Gnome+(Debian+Package)?content=31031
[22:53] <nixternal> who uses a wordprocessor anyways? profesional writing is done with LaTeX :)
[22:54] <marius> lol
[22:54] <marius> I use KWord
[22:54]  * ubunturos loves Kate
[22:54]  * nosrednaekim finds its Doc support less than adequate
[22:54] <marius> nixternal: last question....Why there's no entry for KMail in Kmenu? :)
[22:54] <nixternal> here is something I want to know, besides marius who has overloaded us with a ton of ideas, well marius too, what would you like to see in the future for KUbuntu? how can we make you love us long time :)
[22:55] <mzungu> Just a thought - for all those who don't know which packages to install from the 20,000 + universe, should there be a kubuntu recommended list of additional packages to 'round out' the install
[22:55] <Jucato> marius: we prefer to have it in Kontact :)
[22:55] <ubunturos> marius: isn't that integerated with Kontact
[22:55] <nixternal> omg, I just did that "Full Metal Jacket" style
[22:55] <marius> but marius hates Kontact :(
[22:55] <marius> :))
[22:55] <nixternal> mzungu: good idea!!!! excellent idea actually...if you want, start up a wiki page or something with that, and I will see about putting it into the Kubuntu docs
[22:55]  * ubunturos likes the integration of Kmail, Akregator in it :)
[22:56] <marius> Everyone... hand up for Domino Milk in Kubuntu 8.04!
[22:56] <nixternal> I used Pine and Mutt for years, last year I switched to Kontact, needed another K in my arsenal, and I haven't looked back...for you IMAP users, check out Mailody, simply amazing
[22:56]  * nosrednaekim wants ANYTHING new
[22:56] <mzungu> ok - i'll see what i can do
[22:56] <Jucato> nixternal: if sorting already works on Adept Manager, the packages with the Kubuntu icons are from main/restricted.. . usually those are the recommended stuff right?
[22:57] <nixternal> are they recommended, or do they just have the K/Qt deps?
[22:57] <nosrednaekim> thats still like 2000 packages..
[22:57] <nixternal> that I don't know...I use apt-get for everything
[22:57] <nosrednaekim> and some are GNOME
[22:57] <nosrednaekim> (I think)
[22:57] <marius> nixternal: some nice mouse themes installed by default? (I use ComixIcons packages)
[22:57] <Jucato> we could most probably make up a list
[22:57]  * nosrednaekim the traitor uses synaptic
[22:57] <marius> :)
[22:58] <nixternal> I think having a few pages in our docs that explains all of great possibilities would be great, and I want to work on that, and would even mentor someone looking to help document
[22:58] <nosrednaekim> marius: so many ideas! :)
[22:58] <nixternal> hehe
[22:58] <nixternal> who uses a mouse?
[22:58] <marius> lol
[22:58] <nixternal> Microsoft users!
[22:58] <nixternal> haha
[22:58] <Jucato> nixternal: <AmyRose_p2> Sysinfo for 'amy-pentiumtwo': Linux 2.6.22-14-generic running KDE 3.5.8, CPU: PentiumII(Klamath) at 332 MHz (665 bogomips), , RAM: 150/154MB, 102 proc's, 2.30h up
[22:58] <marius> :D
[22:58] <mzungu> ahh - adept! last used in dapper, so thought to give it a try in gutsy - but what a resource hog! and a memory leak somewhere - so back to aptitude in konsole ;)
[22:58] <Jucato> nixternal: for the doubters!
[22:58] <nixternal> holy smokes
[22:58] <marius> -1 for Adept
[22:58] <nixternal> Amy has me beat big time
[22:59] <Jucato> nixternal: I asked AmyRose to sort of document his/her user experience
[22:59] <marius> I've read the whole session from Tuesday
[22:59] <nixternal> Celeron 500 overclocked to 800MHz running KDE (Slackware) on another box
[22:59] <nixternal> PackageKit? :)
[22:59]  * nixternal ducks
[22:59] <marius> I think the best idea is for someone to make a QT version of Synaptic
[22:59] <Jucato> nixternal: hide from mhb!!!
[22:59] <Jucato> marius: there was... but it died
[22:59] <nixternal> exactly why I ducked
[23:00] <marius> or Packagekit.....
[23:00]  * nosrednaekim ducks from mhb
[23:00] <marius> :)
[23:00] <nixternal> We definitely need to do something, because it seems that Adept isn't loved by many people
[23:00] <Jucato> marius: I personally would prefer something that won't look like a copy of something else though :)
[23:00] <nosrednaekim> kynaptic sucked
[23:00] <Jucato> nixternal: s/seems/is evident/
[23:00] <marius> heh
[23:00] <nixternal> Jucato: you got it :)
[23:00] <ubunturos> sudo apt-get instead ;)
[23:01] <nixternal> booyah
[23:01] <luca> nixternal: when adept will be as flexible and powerful as synaptic, thing'll get better :)
[23:01] <Jucato> of course, a new package manager isn't an easy business, and won't exactly be perfect the first time it's out...
[23:01] <nixternal> ubunturos: but new users are scared of the command line, at least that is what all of the FUD slingers say
[23:01] <luca> (and apt-get rocks :D )
[23:01] <nixternal> we could be like another distro and create Python front ends for every command line utility there is :)
[23:01] <ubunturos> umm
[23:01] <Jucato> nixternal: yeah.. riiiight :)
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> ok...one of biggest problems with kubuntu is artwork...who here is an artist?
[23:02]  * Jucato ducks
[23:02]  * nixternal ducks
[23:02] <marius> lol
[23:02] <luca> uhm by the way...sorry to interrupt...about apt-get...sudo apt-get build-dep amarok --> was not possible to satisfy dependencies ?_?
[23:02] <nixternal> oh wait, Ken isn't in here
[23:02] <mzungu> there is a huge debate on apt-get vs aptitude - which aptitude seems to win with better depenency handling
[23:02] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: our beloved mhb is drawing up a spec to build a Kubuntu artist community
[23:02] <marius> i'm....NOT :)
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: ah.... our beloved minion
[23:02] <nixternal> mhb is superdev! nobody works harder than he does...
[23:03] <Jucato> no one except nixternal and Riddell
[23:03] <nixternal> imagine if we had about 10 of him
[23:03] <Jucato> gremlins-style? O.o
[23:03]  * Jucato fetches a bucket of water....
[23:03] <nixternal> heh
[23:04] <nixternal> OK, I am going to start finishing up here, but I would be more than welcome to carry the conversations on later...
[23:04] <nixternal> one thing I want to say though
[23:04] <nixternal> Kubuntu is lacking in active developers and we try to draw them in. Our number 1 goal however isn't the developer, but the user, and making that user as happy as possible
[23:05] <marius> Richard, it was a pleasure to talk to you.. have a great night and I hope some of my ideas will become reality!
[23:05] <luca> bye and thanks :)
[23:05] <Jucato> ubunturos: remember to poke nixternal later and see whatever happened to your doc submissions to KDE
[23:05] <marius> Good night everyone!
[23:05] <Jucato> good morning!!!
[23:05] <mzungu> many thanks nixternal
[23:05] <nixternal> 99.9% of the Kubuntu developers are not paid, actually only 1 is...but we have a very tight-knit community that is easy to join in with, and you will meet some of the greatest people and developers in the world
[23:05] <Jucato> nixternal: can I go back to sleep now? :/
[23:05] <marius> It's just 1 AM here :)
[23:05] <nixternal> it is a total joy working wth the Kubuntu people, and if it wasn't for that, I am sure I would be back with Debian, or lost and confused with some RPM distro :)
[23:06] <stdin> Jucato: no, you have to look after #kubuntu now
[23:06]  * stdin runs away
[23:06] <mzungu> 1am here too!
[23:06]  * Jucato lassos stdin
[23:06] <marius> We love you too Richard! :D
[23:06] <Jucato> nixternal: the chameleon!!! :)
[23:06] <nixternal> I want to thank you all for the awesome questions, and if you want to ensure I remember your ideas and what not, fire an email to me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or even fire some ideas to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:06] <Jucato> hah finally he uses the @kubuntu.org :P
[23:06] <stdin> where's picachu when you need an electric attack...
[23:06] <nixternal> we can always use developers, we can so use non-developers as well
[23:07] <nixternal> so if you know someone who is looking to get into free software, or Ubuntu/Kubuntu, let them know it is easy, there are jobs for everyone
[23:07] <luca> nixternal: I just hope that by Hardy, no one will ever say anymore that Ubuntu is the LESSER sister of Gnome Ubuntu :)
[23:07] <Jucato> and for those people who like to help out Kubuntu in every way possible, we do invite you to lend a helping hand in #kubuntu :)
[23:07] <nixternal> with that said, thanks again everyone, and I hope you all keep in contact because you have brilliant ideas and wonderful personalities
[23:07] <luca> sadly tops I can do is beta-testing :( and #kubuntu , a bit
[23:07] <nixternal> stuff that makes Kubuntu the greatest!
[23:07] <Jucato> luca: every little bit helps :)
[23:07] <stdin> and the wiki, please someone help me with the wiki
[23:08] <Jucato> no one touch the wiki!!!
[23:08]  * stdin begs
[23:08] <Jucato> :P
[23:08] <luca> oh by the way
[23:08] <nixternal> luca: that isn't "sadly" at all, that is great! no matter how you help, you matter believe it or not..and with the Kubuntu community still being quite small, you don't get lost easily
[23:08] <Jucato> stdin: let's see what we can do next week btw... if you have a list, it would be easier
[23:09] <luca> nixternal: good then :) but I won't update to Hardy 'till february/march, I am done with unstable systems for a while :P
[23:09] <nixternal> haha
[23:09] <stdin> Jucato: the way I find them is usually, "<stdin> person: go look at this wiki page...."   "<person> stdin: where is System > "Administration"? "
[23:09] <nixternal> I am probably going to dist-upgrade this week to Hardy
[23:09] <luca> good luck :)
[23:09] <nixternal> I am opposite, I can't stand stability..there is no challenge with stability :)
[23:10] <nixternal> you learn more when you are fixing stuff :)
[23:10] <luca> well...I guess I will have my share of fun with kde4 :P
[23:10] <nixternal> I am talking to you from KDE 4 as we speak
[23:10]  * stdin just finished compiling kde4 again
[23:10] <nixternal> hehe
[23:10] <Jucato> :)
[23:10] <nixternal> compiling KDE can be done in my sleep now
[23:10] <nixternal> literally, because kdelibs takes forever!
[23:10] <stdin> I have a script :p
[23:11] <luca> me too, but failed multiple times
[23:11] <luca> I have done many build-dep now...crossing my fingers...
[23:11] <stdin> it "svn up"'s then goes to ../build and makes them
[23:11] <nixternal> I have to watch each of my builds..I did use a script that would >> to a file if there were deprecated tags
[23:11] <nixternal> who had a problem with amarok build-dep?
[23:12] <luca> me
[23:12] <luca> and konversation too
[23:12] <stdin> luca I think
[23:12] <nixternal> what package was it failing on?
[23:12] <nixternal> I have to say, Amarok 2 is simply gorgeous!
[23:12] <luca> amarok* and konversation so far
[23:13] <luca> the error is a simple "it was not possible to satisfy building dependencies"
[23:13] <nixternal> hrmm
[23:13] <nosrednaekim> apt-get builddep?
[23:13] <nixternal> I will have to check and see all the deps missing
[23:13] <stdin> is that the whole output?
[23:13] <luca> which is odd as I did multiple build-deps on the kde4 packages w/o problems
[23:13] <luca> yeah it is :(
[23:13]  * Jucato didn't know nixternal's session was 2 hours....
[23:14] <Jucato> :P
[23:14] <stdin> it was longer on tue
[23:15] <Jucato> too bad I wasn't there... I should have been
[23:15]  * Jucato headdesks
[23:15] <luca> nixternal can you issue those commands w/ good results?
[23:15] <nixternal> E: Build-dependencies for amarok could not be satisfied.
[23:15] <nixternal> nope
[23:15] <nixternal> hrmm
[23:15] <nixternal> looking into it now
[23:15] <stdin> on gutsy?
[23:15] <luca> yeah
[23:16] <stdin> works here
[23:16] <luca> it seems to affect konversation too
[23:16] <luca> stdin: good, now we just have to remote compare three boxes :P
[23:16] <Jucato> yay.. anyway... good night!
[23:16] <luca> night
[23:16] <stdin> dpkg -l|wc -l
[23:16] <stdin> 2268
[23:16] <stdin> or not...
[23:17] <luca> same error for konqueror O_o
[23:17] <nixternal> and it is funny, because apt-get check isn't returning anything for me
[23:17] <luca> same here
[23:18]  * nosrednaekim is waiting for the Developer preview
[23:18] <vocx> For developers read http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=544957&highlight=sell+software+business+support
[23:18] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: check it out from trunk/extragear/multimedia
[23:18] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: dial-up.... i'm not checking ANYTHING out.
[23:18] <nixternal> lol
[23:18] <nixternal> I forgot
[23:19] <nosrednaekim> maybe when I go down to the library or something
[23:19] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: there is an amarok2 package in the repos
[23:19] <nosrednaekim> oh rly?
[23:19] <nixternal> ya, don't know how old it is though
[23:19] <nosrednaekim> eh.... whats it called? i
[23:19] <nosrednaekim> m
[23:19] <nosrednaekim> not seeing it
[23:20] <luca> by the way, as I am here....I have to file a bug report for wpa, nm-applet and knetworkmanager...a hidden wpa...odd thing is that I can connect with knetworkmanager, but it does forget the settings at every reboot :(
[23:20] <luca> nixternal: never seen it!
[23:20] <nixternal> luca: there could already be a bug report for that...I filed one a while back about that stuff
[23:22] <nixternal> alrighty all, I am off for a bit...need to hunt down some food..thanks again
[23:22] <luca> nixternal thanks
[23:22] <nixternal> stupid IRC
[23:23] <luca> lol :D
[23:32] <jose__> hi, does anyone know how to install cedega, i was trying to install it but i can't o.O hehe


[01:49] <cmaloney> Apparently neighbors think it's time for fireworks
[01:56] <_stink_> happy whatever day?
[01:59] <cmaloney> Yeah, not sure what they're detonating for
[02:25] <gamerchick02> trying to scare away the geese?
[02:36] <_stink_> i hear them too
[02:36] <_stink_> some kind of 'grand finale'
[02:36] <_stink_> maybe it's the same ones, cmaloney
[02:37] <_stink_> we aren't that far apart
[02:37] <gamerchick02> it's way too early for fireworks or whatever
[02:42] <cmaloney> _stink_: They've geen grand-finaleing for a while now.
[02:45] <_stink_> haha
[02:45] <_stink_> petit finales
[02:45] <_stink_> x 10
[02:51] <cmaloney> The only other thing I can think of is some fireworks storage is on fre
[02:51] <cmaloney> or we're being bombed
[02:52] <cmaloney> Not seeing anything on the net that suggests something scheduled.
[02:56] <_stink_> yeah i'm looking too
[02:56] <_stink_> it's still banging
[02:56] <_stink_> weird
[12:44] <cmaloney> morn
[14:37] <cmaloney> http://list.spraci.net/michaelmd/note/aUxfkrU7QJyIuvUCIsgsFQ
[14:38] <cmaloney> I swear sometimes folks can't see the good in anything
[20:04] <cmaloney> lo
[20:49] <jrwren> another year, another new way water gets in the basement.
[20:50] <jrwren> 3 yrs, 3 different means.
[21:52] <_stink_> :(


[05:35] <Kilos> morning all
[08:11] <Kilos> morningdhdpm
[08:11] <Kilos> ai!
[08:11] <Kilos> morning dholbach  dpm
[08:11] <dpm> hey morning Kilos
[08:12] <dholbach> good morning
[08:12] <dholbach> hi Kilos, hey dpm
[08:14] <dpm> hey dholbach
[10:55] <abatabat_> hey =) russians here?
[10:57] <abatabat_> i need a russian quick :(
[11:00] <Kilos> you need to be very patient here abatabat_
[11:03] <abatabat_> uff, yes im patient :P but i need a russian who use steam... xD
[11:03] <Kilos> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ru/
[11:04] <CrazyLemon> !ru
[11:04] <abatabat_> the point is that i have buy a russian steam key for a game, and i live in germany so i cannot use it... i will gve it to anyone other steam linux gamer....
[11:05] <Kilos> ah
[11:05] <abatabat_> but the people MUST live in russia
[11:05] <abatabat_> i dont will give it any windows player xD
[11:06] <Kilos> lol
[11:06] <abatabat_> lol
[11:06] <abatabat_> steam statistic and so u know? :;D
[11:06] <Kilos> go to their link and try contact them there
[11:06] <abatabat_> ok
[11:06] <abatabat_> thx
[11:15] <Kilos> yw
[19:50] <Paul_> I can't get to qimo4kids home page instead i get michael hall's home page. can anyone help?
[19:51] <Paul_> i was able to get to it about an hour ago
[19:51] <wxl> Paul_: same here
[19:51] <wxl> Paul_: might be an apache2 setting?
[19:52] <Paul_> what's that?
[19:53] <wxl> web server
[19:53] <wxl> you'd have to talk to michael hall
[19:54] <Paul_> i tried to find some contact info hense why i came here
[19:55] <wxl><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:55] <wxl> i think
[19:55] <wxl> ooops
[19:55] <wxl> maybe not
[19:55] <wxl> Paul_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mhall119
[19:56]  * mhall119 's ears are burning
[19:56] <Kilos> lol
[19:57] <wxl> mhall119: Paul_ is concerned qimo4kids.com → mhall119.com
[20:11] <Paul_> mhall119 do you know why that is happening and will it be fixed ?
[20:14] <mhall119> Paul_: no idea, it's loading for me
[20:14] <mhall119> let me check my hosts file
[20:14] <wxl> mhall119: i can confirm
[20:15] <mhall119> how about http://qimoforkids.com/ ?
[20:15] <wxl> nope
[20:16] <mhall119> it redirects also, or it doesn't redirect?
[20:16] <wxl> redirects
[20:16] <Paul_> no im still getting redirected
[20:17] <mhall119> huh....very strange, they're not even on teh same server
[20:17] <wxl> huh so not likely your server config
[20:17] <mhall119> what do you get if you nslookup qimo4kids.com?
[20:18] <Paul_> it was okay until about an hour ago
[20:18]  * mhall119 really just needs to sunset this project
[20:18] <wxl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10592923/
[20:18] <wxl> awww
[20:18] <mhall119> huh, that's not what I get
[20:19] <mhall119> wxl: try nslookup qimo4kids.com <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:19] <Paul_> you get the site with all the info about it and how to use it etc
[20:19] <mhall119> that should use Google's DNS
[20:19] <Paul_> the link from google does the same
[20:19] <wxl> hm our firewall's having an issue
[20:19] <mhall119> that's bizarre
[20:20] <mhall119> well, my phone does it too on 3G
[20:21] <mhall119> so it's not your end
[20:21] <mhall119> something's happened to it's DNS
[20:29] <mhall119> thanks guys, it seems something happened on my DNS host and the qimo domains were being pointed to my blog server instead, it's been fixed now but might take a while to propogate
[20:34] <wxl> and don't sunset qimo
[20:34] <wxl> there's a special palce in my heart for it
[20:34] <wxl> my daughter grew up on it!
[20:40] <mhall119> wxl: mine did too, but it's niche is being filled by others now
[20:40] <wxl> mhall119: hm, maybe you should suggest something else. whatcha like?
[20:40] <mhall119> both Unity and Gnome Shell have nice kid-friendly UIs
[20:40] <wxl> oh
[20:41] <wxl> i spend too much time in the lubuntu camp apparently :)
[20:41] <mhall119> yeah, that's not exactly kid-friendly ;)
[20:41] <wxl> heh
[20:41] <wxl> well she uses it on her laptop now XD
[20:41] <mhall119> fun fact: I originally tried to use fvwm for Qimo, before learning what a bad idea that was and settling in on Xfce
[20:41] <wxl> hahahah
[20:42] <wxl> wow


[15:21] <cjwatson> I just uploaded debian-installer for the new kernel ABI; it would be good if somebody could accept it reasonably soon so that I can sync up the seeds
[16:12] <ScottK> cjwatson: Accepted.
[16:21] <cjwatson> thanks
[16:21]  * cjwatson pokes the seeds
[23:44] <Daviey> Would be good to be able to trace who accepted packages, so i know who to stab. :)


[01:44]  * tomreyn admires TJ-'s patience
[02:50] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:20] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:21] <lotuspsychje> !info kismet bionic
[10:51] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:21] <marcoagpinto> Heya!!!! A cola demon!
[14:23] <pragmaticenigma> WARNING! WARNING! This a cola free zone!!!
[14:27] <OerHeks> systemctrl status colad.service
[14:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:40] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[14:41] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!!! Hello!!!!
[14:41] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[14:42] <BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
[14:43] <hggdh> morning folks
[14:43] <BluesKaj> 'Morning hggdh
[14:43] <marcoagpinto> hey hggdh
[14:44] <lotuspsychje> hey hggdh
[15:07] <marcoagpinto> "of Fire and Light"
[15:07] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:07] <marcoagpinto> good metal
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> https://fedorapeople.org/~jwrdegoede/flickerfree-videos/workstation-bgrt-logo.webm
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> flickerfree on 19.10 to come
[16:30] <OerHeks> fedora ... you?
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> no, its linked from omgubuntu
[16:31] <lotuspsychje>  News from omgubuntu: Ubuntu 19.10 Will Offer a Flicker Free Boot (For Some Users, Anyway) <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/d0od/~3/n3hdU9dFcuQ/ubuntu-flicker-free-boot>
[16:36] <lordcirth> While that's cool, it's way down my priority list...
[17:03] <marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaa... I need to reboot... my PhD software fragmented all the RAM :(
[17:05] <lordcirth> fragmented your RAM?
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> pacman did it
[17:14] <daftykins> o0
[17:24] <marcoagpinto> back!
[17:24] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[17:25] <marcoagpinto> the tool is so heavy on system resources :(((((
[17:25] <marcoagpinto> 4 GB is too little for it
[18:42] <tomreyn> it must have been a boot sector virus!
[18:42] <tomreyn> on drive a:
[18:52] <marcoagpinto> tomreyn: ????
[18:56] <tomreyn> i'm joking about old computer issues.
[18:57] <marcoagpinto> ahhhh
[18:57] <marcoagpinto> because A: and B: are floppy drives
[18:57] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:57] <tomreyn> yes, and for the most part, boot sector viruses, are a thing of the past, too.
[18:57] <marcoagpinto> yes
[18:57] <tomreyn> at least currently.
[19:02] <tomreyn> https://serverfault.com/questions/133305/linux-memory-fragmentation
[19:02] <tomreyn> you're probably not using huge pages with 4 GB of total physical memory
[19:10] <marcoagpinto> tomreyn: It is Windows 10 not Ubuntu
[19:10] <marcoagpinto> :)
[19:11] <marcoagpinto> and I store most of the data in multidimensional arrays that eat all RAM
[19:11] <marcoagpinto> the software no longer works in 32-bit, but only in 64
[19:12] <marcoagpinto> although I have removed a field from some of the arrays
[19:12] <marcoagpinto> :)
[19:12] <marcoagpinto> but they are still huge
[19:12] <marcoagpinto> then, they are also structured, for example:
[19:13] <marcoagpinto> field(1,5000,5000)\time
[19:13] <marcoagpinto> :)
[19:14] <marcoagpinto> anyway, I found a way of reducing RAM usage by removing a background image and replace it with a smaller picture, but the design guy made the GUI for free, so I can't ask much from him
[19:14] <marcoagpinto> it is my PhD afterall
[20:18] <JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, reduce your screen resolution and reduce RAM use even more :-)
[20:27] <marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: What?! The software was suppose to use at least 1080p
[20:27] <marcoagpinto> :)
[20:27] <marcoagpinto> but I only have 1366x768
[20:27] <marcoagpinto> so, part of the options are semi-cut in the window
[21:55] <tomreyn> hehe, TJ- is dealing with the same level of expertise in #ubuntu as i have been for the past 3 hours in #kubuntu
[21:55]  * tomreyn ran out of patience again
[21:55] <sarnold> tomreyn: heh, you're both machines :)
[21:56] <tomreyn> machines would just do it, i want to shout right now
[21:57] <sarnold> hm, maybe the computers scream back at us, but at 2ghz rather than 2khz where we could hear it..
[21:58] <tomreyn> they just randomly draw more power to pay it back to us
[21:59] <sarnold> hehe
[21:59] <tomreyn> and transfer out unique ad id and browser fingerprint over 2khz to our android phones, right
[22:00] <sarnold> oh is *that* how that works..
[22:00] <jeremy31> It all goes along with the implant in your brain
[22:01] <TJ-> Have you noticed you can make 'smart' phones sulk if you cut off their network facilities, and refuse to allow 'fine' GPS service?
[22:01] <jeremy31> TJ-: figure out the grub issue from earlier today?
[22:02] <TJ-> jeremy31: remind me which one! :D
[22:02] <TJ-> oh... yeah... sheesh, so many things being juggled I'd entirely forgotten about that, seems like months ago
[22:02] <jeremy31> TJ-: I think is was USB and trying to use Legacy and EFI boot
[22:03] <tomreyn> there was someone claiming it was this way sounds transferred to android) on some security mailing list some 2 or so years ago. maybe this was around the badbios revelations, i don't rmemeber.
[22:03] <tomreyn> sarnold: ^
[22:03] <TJ-> jeremy31: grub-efi-amd64 Conflict/Replaces grub-pc but grub-efi-amd64-signed ... doesn't
[22:03] <sarnold> I've heard about some ultrasonic advertising identifiers before..
[22:03] <tomreyn> yes thats what i read, too
[22:04] <TJ-> When your dogs start insisting on buying tat from Amazon you know there's ultrasonic ads!
[22:04] <tomreyn> but there didn't seem to be any hard evidence then
[22:04] <jeremy31> TJ-: Not sure what grub efi I have installed but the drive still works in Legacy and EFI mode
[22:04] <tomreyn> hehe tj
[22:05] <TJ-> jeremy31: it works, but it annoyed me the -signed (which does the same thing as the unsigned) gets to co-install with grub-pc but unsigned doesn't
[22:05] <TJ-> jeremy31: oh! you've made me realise I forgot something vital! I didn't check grubx64.efi was copied to the removable media boot path - doh!
[22:06] <jeremy31> TJ-: did a dpkg -l | grep grub  and I see no sign of grub efi
[22:06] <TJ-> jeremy31: grub-efi-amd64{,-signed} are the 2 required for UEFI boot
[22:07] <jeremy31> TJ-: It was installed first(grub-efi-amd64) and I added the bios_grub partition later
[22:09] <TJ-> the installer only uses grub-efi-amd64 which is useless for 18.04 FDE (won't work) so I needed to replace the boot-loader with the locally built one, but that requires using "grub-install --no-uefi-secure-boot ..."
[22:10] <TJ-> oops, s/only uses grub-efi-amd64-signed/
[22:12] <jeremy31> I didn't try with FDE, I just was trying to get a SSD with a Linux install to work with an older laptop
[22:16] <TJ-> interesting, booting the same installed USB device in a VM, it is blazing fast as an IDE disk but quite slothful as a virtio disk
[22:16] <TJ-> also IDE is UEFI boot, VirtIO is BIOS but that shouldn't make a difference