[05:00] <jam> axw: I sent a first set of review comments on your PR. I'm going to try and finish reviewing it today, but i realize that it would have been useful to submit the feedback I had earlier so you could respond
[05:02] <axw> jam: thanks
[09:56] <axw> jam: in one of your comments, it sounds like you're leaning back towards the original approach of mapping IDs to addresses not stored in the raft config, is that right?
[09:57] <jam> axw: so I wanted to discuss it at least. I thought you were doing separate mapping on our side, not part of the raft config
[09:57] <jam> you were saying that you needed to publish the alternative config and track it somewhere
[09:57] <jam> which was my big concern
[09:58] <axw> jam: originally I had (in the raft config) the server ID and address both equal to machine-tag
[09:58] <axw> jam: then the transport code would map the "address" (machine tag) to the real API server hostport
[09:58] <jam> axw: ah, that's probably the part I didn't want. I'd prefer not to have the "address" be a tag
[09:59] <axw> jam: it eliminates the split-brain issue, since you have a stable address in the raft config (no need to remove/add). what's your concern exactly? about consistency?
[10:00] <axw> jam: consistency/ordering isn't ideal for name resolution, you always want what's current?
[10:04] <jam> axw: my main concern is that the raft config is no longer self contained. you need to look up somewhere else that you then need to keep consistent
[10:05] <axw> jam: ok. I agree that it would be nice to have it self-contained. it's unfortunate that there's no atomic config change op
[10:05] <jam> axw: so it separates the idea of what IP address a given node has, but it doesn't let you change the address of the node without removing it?
[10:05] <jam> axw: that seems weird given the separation
[10:05] <axw> jam: yup
[10:07] <axw> jam: unless docs lie...
[10:08] <axw> I see code that looks like it *might* allow an address change, which is not what the docs say
[10:08] <jam> axw: looking at the code in configuration.go
[10:08] <axw> yep, same
[10:08] <jam> looks like you can just AddVoter(existingId, newAddress)
[10:08] <jam> and it will overried
[10:09] <jam> if server.Sufferage == Voter ; Servers[i].Address = serverAddress
[10:09] <jam> axw: ^^
[10:09] <axw> jam: yep, I just saw the same. I'll test it now. yay for misleading doc comments
[10:09] <axw> "If the server is already in the cluster as a voter, this does nothing."
[10:11] <jam> axw: yeah, there definitely is a discrepency between some of the code comments and the "design" vs the "implementation"
[10:11] <jam> things like "AddVoter" actually adds it as staging, but promotion actually does nothing which means it actually adds it as voter
[10:22] <axw> jam: ok, it works fine - I'll update the code to get rid of the intermediate remove op, and I'll add in a check to stop it from removing a server if it could lead to split-brain
[10:23] <jam> wpk: I looked at PR 8323
[10:28] <jam> axw: that changes your code also to handle the "localhost" to "public IP" case, doesn't it?
[10:28] <axw> jam: sorry, don't follow - which case is that? you mean changing the bootstrap address (juju.localhost)?
[10:29] <jam> axw: you have comments around "if len(X) < 3)" and some comments in the test suite about handling when we have 1 entry vs 3 entries
[10:29] <jam> axw: can we simplify that code/
[10:29] <jam> ?
[10:30] <axw> jam: yes, as we speak :)   I'll just make sure that it doesn't remove any servers if that would lead to an even-sized configuration
[10:31] <axw> add or remove...
[10:33] <jam> axw: i'm less concerned about an even-sized config, because often it is necessary to go via that to get to what you want. I'd like to move our existing ensure-ha to not mandate even-always
[10:33] <axw> jam: OK, I'll leave that for now then
[10:33] <axw> I'll just drop the length check
[10:34] <jam> axw: sgtm. (specifically, if there is a breakage on one of your machines, you'd really like to just kill that machine, and then bring it back into rotation, and our code around "protect you from yourself" usually gets in the way of people actually fixing stuff)
[10:34]  * axw nods
[10:37] <jam> axw: I updated my comments on 8308
[10:46] <axw> jam: I've pushed updates
[11:01] <axw> jam: I have no strong feeling regarding Internal vs. HA, so let me know if you'd like me to change it. also please see my reply regarding Debug vs. Info for cluster config updates
[19:07] <balloons> how is the ami chosen when creating a unit?
[19:21] <balloons> wallyworld, ^^?


[00:15] <Floating4> rbox - sorta like a switch has a management console, I would like the motherboard NIC to act that way, just for access to the machine, nothing else
[00:17] <Floating4> similar... https://superuser.com/questions/305844/is-it-possible-to-permanently-disable-internet-access-under-ubuntu
[00:18] <Floating4> sorry wrong link
[00:19] <Floating4> what if I set the network gateway on the nic to something bogus?
[02:42] <tomreyn> Floating4: if you're familiar with network diagrams, you could draw your intended setup here https://app.diagrams.net/ and share it.
[02:43] <tomreyn> also discuss whether you actually want a GUI or a shell / terminal is sufficient
[03:13] <pickanick> I'm interested in the gnome disk utility feature of testing I/O of connected drives including USB flash drives.  Is there a special package that does that? Or what's the apt package name of the GNOME disk utility? I'm in KDE (Kubuntu) and would have to install it separately, as I am unaware of the KDE equivalent.
[03:19] <Floating4> tomreyn I managed to make it work, I just gave the "management" nic a bogus gateway so it can resolve internal but not external.  Not ideal but open to other ways to ensure no internet leak can happen on that nic
[03:20] <Floating4> tomreyn I'm basically going to call this my DMZ now
[03:28] <akik> pickanick: google says it's gnome-disk-utility
[03:29] <arraybolt3> pickanick: This isn't ideal, but you might be able to do something similar using `dd` on the command line. Something like "cd /path/to/USB_Drive; dd if=/dev/zero of=./test.img bs=4M count=256" and that will write a 1 GB file to the drive. dd should tell you the speed statistics when it finishes. There's probably a more ideal way of doing that, especially since that's liable to be thrown off by disk caching, but that's maybe a possible
[03:29] <arraybolt3> starting point.
[03:31] <arraybolt3> Adding "oflag=direct" to the above dd command might give you more accurate results.
[03:32] <pickanick> Based on my recollection of writing .iso to USB by dd, dd does appear to report write speed to cache, being fast initially then slowing down... aha thank you for the oflag=direct suggestion.
[03:35] <pickanick> Don't know if there are any Ubuntu release devs around, but I noticed that the checksums internal to the .iso file are md5sums ... I thought md5 was no longer considered a secure verification by itself.
[03:36] <arraybolt3> The md5 checking is only for *integrity* checking, and md5 is pretty good for that still. And it's a secondary check - there are sha256 checks that are supposed to be used as a primary check.
[03:37] <arraybolt3> For the on-ISO hashes, security isn't a concern - a malicious actor could just change the checksums if they wanted to. The ISOs have SHA256SUMS files distributed alongside them, and those files are detach-signed with an additional SHA256SUMS.gpg file.
[03:37] <arraybolt3> So if you need to do a really thorough check, you download all three, use GPG to verify the SHA256SUMS file, then use sha256sum to verify the ISO file. I always do that.
[03:38] <arraybolt3> The md5 sums are handy for if you flash a good ISO to a flaky drive and it corrupts the data.
[03:40] <arraybolt3> pickanick: btw if you find yourself downloading a lot of ISOs and constantly have to verify them, this might help: https://github.com/ArrayBolt3/vm-isotest
[03:41] <arraybolt3> It's primarily a virtualized testing tool, but it can be used as an ISO downloader.
[03:45]  * arraybolt3 just noticed I have some serious problems in the help guide for that tool, fixing now...
[03:47] <arraybolt3> Fixed, now the instructions will actually work :P
[03:47] <arraybolt3> *should actually work, assuming I didn't make any other mistakes
[03:51] <pickanick> Thanks for the suggestion and the quality check ... Always so nice when the instructions work ;)
[03:54] <pickanick> I noticed that ubuntu offers as a downloading option, zsync, which can update changed files. Is zsync smart enough to efficiently update a previous release ISO? Or just use it to download a fresh image from scratch?
[03:58] <arraybolt3> pickanick: zsync is smart enough to download just the changes from one ISO to another.
[03:58] <arraybolt3> I use it very frequently for updating daily experimental ISOs.
[03:59] <arraybolt3> However, the differences between ISOs from one *release* to another are frequently large enough that it's not really worth it - the data that can be kept is little, and the compute time needed to find the delta is large.
[03:59] <arraybolt3> It's efficient a lot of times, but from release to release, I usually download fresh.
[05:40] <pickanick> arraybolt3: great thanks
[06:09] <pickanick> Is there only one OEM kernel shared by all OEMs?
[06:12] <rbox> pickanick: huh?
[06:13] <pickanick> tomreyn: I read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/OEMKernel and it gives the impression that there are generic kernel, -hwe, -oem , so only one OEM kernel package shared by all hardware.  No OEM-Dell, OEM-Toshiba, OEM-Asus, etc.
[06:19] <arraybolt3> pickanick: From what I understand (and I could be wrong here), the OEM kernels are simply a method of getting a newer kernel on an older version of Ubuntu before HWE provides a newer kernel. For instance 22.04 started with kernel 5.15, but kernel 5.17 was available as an OEM kernel.
[06:19] <arraybolt3> Such a kernel may be useful for equipment manufacturers who are distributing cutting-edge hardware that may not work well (or at all) with the older kernel.
[06:19] <arraybolt3> I believe that yes, all OEMs use the same kernel, since the function of the OEM kernel is to provide newer kernels early.
[06:19] <arraybolt3> (I may be misunderstanding here, if so someone please correct me.)
[06:21] <arraybolt3> I see there are several other features of OEM kernels, so I didn't get everything right in the above, but it does look like all OEMs use the same kernel.
[06:22] <arraybolt3> And I think I was mostly right based on the doc you linked to.
[06:23] <arraybolt3> (it is a newer kernel on an earlier release, but it's also got other "new" stuff on top, not just a newer kernel version.)
[06:54] <pickanick> arraybolt3: thank you for the confirmation and clarification.
[07:01] <arraybolt3> Glad to help!
[07:38] <pickanick> Some hardware have a BIOS option of SATA/NVMe vs RAID on.  Windows was installed by OEM with the RAID On setting. Apparently I could boot linux, (perhaps Ubuntu?) with a linux VMD driver.  In the past I've always changed to RAID off because my understanding of RAID was purely theoretical, RAID seemed to only ofterr more setup complexity, and I was fairly comfortable with having a boot drive and separate data drives. and I wasn't sure whether thre was any
[07:39] <pickanick> performance cost to having RAID on in BIOS when one was not actually using RAID. , in the chance that one might later.
[07:41] <pickanick> Question: If I install (on a system with *one* drive) Ubuntu in either RAID on or SATA/NVMe, will it still run under the other setting?  [Obviously if one have multiple drives and stripes Ubuntu across drives then that won't boot when changing BIOS option to SATA/NVMe !]
[07:51] <arraybolt3> pickanick: Not sure what version of Linux you were using back then, but Ubuntu is *incompatible* with the "RAID" setting you're seeing when working with an NVMe drive.
[07:52] <arraybolt3> That "RAID" setting is Intel Rapid Storage Technology, which is... a mess. I won't get into the details (mostly because I don't know all of them since I'm not a kernel dev :P) but the Linux kernel devs really do not like some of the problems Intel RST causes with NVMe drives - and so they have chosen to not support Intel RST NVMe *at all*.
[07:52] <pickanick> well I always would switch to SATA mode.
[07:53] <arraybolt3> Makes sense. But if you switch from SATA to RAID, Ubuntu will just fail to boot.
[07:53] <tim_> hi
[07:53] <arraybolt3> (Windows can, with some fiddling, be made to switch back and forth, Ubuntu not so much so.)
[07:54] <arraybolt3> pickanick: Interesting tidbit, there actually is a patch to enable Intel RST NVMe on Ubuntu's kernel. It's used by Endless OS, so it might actually work if you switched into RAID mode.
[07:54] <arraybolt3> (You can also apply the patch to an Ubuntu kernel if you're willing to do the work.)
[07:54] <arraybolt3> (it being Endless OS in the above)
[07:55] <pickanick> oh right, that is important to know. The BIOS did advertise "Linux Kernel VMD Driver" as an alternative to Intel RST.
[07:55] <arraybolt3> That's odd, never heard of that.
[07:55] <arraybolt3> Is this an Intel 10th Gen machine?
[07:57] <pickanick> probably ?
[07:58] <pickanick> maybe 11 actually
[07:58] <arraybolt3> Hmm. Yeah, no clue there. I see a vmd.c file in the Linux kernel.
[07:59] <pickanick> I do too ;)
[08:02] <aleksandar1047> Hello
[08:02] <pickanick> https://www.kernelconfig.io/config_vmd which may not be relevant as it says "CONFIG_VMD is not available for the default architecture x86."  nevertheless has the comment "Adds support for the Intel Volume Management Device (VMD). VMD is a secondary PCI host bridge that allows PCI Express root ports, and devices attached to them, to be removed from the default PCI domain and placed within the VMD domain. This provides more bus resources than are otherwise possible
[08:02] <pickanick> with a single domain.
[08:06] <pickanick> I dont have the hardware expertise to know whether it's a significant advantage.
[08:07] <pickanick> arraybolt3: it sounds like RST and VMD are separate technologies and drivers, does that match your impression?
[10:28] <ice9> on optimus laptop, if I chose nvidia prop driver; after login it shows a blank screen
[10:35] <sofachillax> hello, im encountering random freezes on xorg with 100% cpu load using nvidia version 525 on gtx 960, i still got ssh acces though.
[10:35] <sofachillax> 1 core is at 100% load
[10:47] <Guest7028> https://allods.com/ guys try this a new free game from Lord Jesus Christ
[10:47] <Guest7028> :)
[10:47] <Guest7028> is so nice
[10:50] <zaggynl> at least fix your certificate mr christ
[11:52] <sebastien> hi
[11:52] <sebastien> i am in Lubuntu, why my scroll barr is hidden on lxqt terminal ?
[11:53] <lotuspsychje> sebastien: can you screenshot that, and wich lubuntu release does that happen on?
[11:57] <sebastien> https://ibb.co/V93Kh1f
[11:58] <sebastien> https://ibb.co/LgrWC85
[11:59] <sebastien> qterminal 0.17
[11:59] <sebastien> how to show scroll barr ?
[12:02] <sebastien> how to display the scrollbar?
[12:07] <sebastien> where i can change the color of the scrollbar ? (qterminal, lxqt, lubuntu)
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> sebastien: looks like its theme related to me, maybe try out some visual tweaks on your lubuntu settings
[12:13] <lotuspsychje> sebastien: this is what i get when installing qterminal 0.17 ontop gnome; https://imgur.com/a/xAfIary
[12:13] <sebastien> lotuspychje: basic theme linux
[12:15] <sebastien> i have breeze !
[12:16] <sebastien> and when i click fusion, i have the scroll !
[12:16] <lotuspsychje> sebastien: https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/customize-the-lxqt-desktop/
[12:18] <sebastien> thanks !
[12:20] <sebastien> so i use fusion to show...
[12:26] <sebastien> good day
[12:39] <ice99> systemd resolved is not same as resolvconf?
[13:01] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:17] <WeeBey> Hi! I would like to set my pymouth theme back to default. Should I just reinstall plymouth-theme-ubuntu? or edit plymouth.default?
[14:20] <premkumar> i cann't copy/paste and create a folder in linux mint emergency please help any one
[14:22] <WeeBey> copy paste text or files?
[14:22] <lotuspsychje> !mint | premkumar
[14:22] <premkumar> file brother
[14:24] <premkumar> i don't know brother ubottu
[14:24] <premkumar> i am in emergency sutition
[14:25] <premkumar> please help
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> premkumar: we can only support Ubuntu and its flavours here
[14:51] <lotuspsychje> anyone else getting a system is up to date update-manager popup when no updates have been running neither gui or via apt, on jammy desktop?
[15:04] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, does gnome have "unattended updates" installed by default ?
[15:05] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well ive checked /var/log/dpkg logs and no new packages installed
[15:06] <BluesKaj> ok, it's installed on kde/plasma by default for security packages
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> i checked apt, and got 2 packages that are upgradeable, but then update-manager should say there are updates, instead of system is up to date
[15:07] <BluesKaj> well, unattended means automatic update without notification afaik
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> indeed, but they would show in dpkg logs then
[15:09] <BluesKaj> I haven't checked the logs :-)
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> ill keep an eye on it
[15:27] <everton> hi
[15:28] <everton> i am just installed ubuntu studio 22.04
[15:28] <everton> browsers cant launch
[15:28] <everton> why???
[15:28] <everton> it is a mistake??
[15:29] <litera53> everton, try to open a terminal and start the browser from there firefox<tab> or chromium or others
[15:29] <litera53> and see what it writes.
[15:33] <everton> litera in pvt i paste
[15:38] <litera53> everton, i don't take privates, please use Pastes to https://paste.ubuntu.com/ for pasting and link here so that anyone can try to help --- i don't know you have an issue with your snap version of firefox and its modules.
[15:38] <everton> i cannot paste
[15:39] <litera53> if you need a working browser quickly try to install epiphany or falkon, apt-get install falkon - someone else might help you with that firefox snap
[15:39] <everton> ok
[15:42] <jhutchins> !paste
[15:45] <jhutchins> Hm.  I know there's a non-browser method of creating an on-line paste, but I haven't made a note of it.
[16:02] <jhutchins> Ah, here it is: echo <blah> |nc termbin.com 9999
[16:02] <jhutchins> You can also use pastebinit, but that requires installation.
[16:08] <WeeBey> um
[16:08] <WeeBey> help.
[16:08] <WeeBey> I just accidentally did rm -r folder/*
[16:08] <WeeBey> and nuked the current working directory
[16:09] <arraybolt3> WeeBey: A directory with important info I assume?
[16:09] <respawn> dont use random commands
[16:09] <arraybolt3> If so, you're probably going to need PhotoRec at this point.
[16:09] <arraybolt3> WeeBey: First thing to do would be to shut down the computer entirely before you accidentally overwrite what's left of the data.
[16:09] <leftyfb> WeeBey: restore from backup
[16:09] <WeeBey> arraybolt3: Yes. Stuff I didn't want to delete.  I was using autocomplete and it was a mistake.
[16:10] <arraybolt3> WeeBey: OK. If you don't have backups, turn off the computer now and boot from a live USB. The sooner you do, the better.
[16:10] <arraybolt3> PhotoRec can attempt to reconstruct the deleted data from what's left on the disk, but the OS may overwrite that stuff if it's still on and doing things.
[16:10] <WeeBey> ah dang it.
[16:10] <WeeBey> That suuuuuuuuucks
[16:10] <arraybolt3> rm is permanent. There's no undo button.
[16:11] <WeeBey> yes. I'm aware. it was a mistake. I've been using the terminal for like a decade. It was just a slip for the fingers really.
[16:11] <arraybolt3> I've done that before. It's... yeah. Sorry that happened.
[16:11] <WeeBey> lol that's so silly. Photorec sounds interesting. let me have a look.
[16:12] <arraybolt3> It's available in Ubuntu, however it can't scan a mounted drive so you will need a live USB to use it.
[16:12] <arraybolt3> Once in the live USB, you can do "sudo apt update && sudo apt install testdisk" to install it in the live environment.
[16:12] <leftyfb> WeeBey: the longer you run your pc and the more you write and delete (logs, etc) the less likely you are to recover anything. Even then it's not guaranteed
[16:13] <fede_> hi with wich command can I start a just configured vpn?
[16:13] <arraybolt3> fede_: Depends on what VPN you're using. ProtonVPN? Wireguard? OpenVPN?
[16:13] <mvn> speak rus??
[16:13] <arraybolt3> Something different entirely?
[16:13] <arraybolt3> !rs | mvn
[16:13] <leftyfb> !ru | mvn
[16:13] <arraybolt3> Nope.
[16:13] <fede_> pptp vpn
[16:13] <WeeBey> leftyfb: yea... </3
[16:13] <WeeBey> Thanks arraybolt3 ugh.
[16:14] <leftyfb> fede_: Network Manager is your best bet
[16:14] <leftyfb> fede_: other than that, nmcli
[16:14]  * arraybolt3 makes a note that "rs" is not the language code for Russion
[16:16] <jhutchins> https://www.system-rescue.org/System-tools/
[16:17] <fede_> arraybolt3: I have tried to start the connection with Network Manager, but it tell me can't connect without any seggestion to find the problem, I have think to start the connection with terminal for see the details of failure
[16:19] <WeeBey> would testdisk work on an encrypted drive?
[16:19] <WeeBey> lol
[16:20] <jhutchins> WeeBey: Encrypted drive with zero backups?
[16:20] <WeeBey> jhutchins: Yes? haha
[16:21] <WeeBey> Ok, so this is a VM that I was using for some media editing stuff cos of I needed to install so many apps and libs that I didn't want to mess up my own underlying system.
[16:21] <arraybolt3> WeeBey: Yes, actually.
[16:21] <arraybolt3> You have to use cryptsetup to get access to the encrypted container.
[16:21] <arraybolt3> But then you can use PhotoRec on the mapped device.
[16:21] <arraybolt3> (LUKS works by making a "container" on your drive that then holds your data encrypted, You can "mount" that container without mounting the filesystem using cryptsetup.)
[16:22] <jhutchins> WeeBey: Why was it encrypted?
[16:22] <arraybolt3> Then you can throw PhotoRec at the container and see what you get.
[16:22] <arraybolt3> jhutchins: They probably encrypted it intentionally with LVM + encryption, which Ubuntu gives you the option of doing.
[16:23] <arraybolt3> WeeBey: You may have to get into the LVM volumes first if you used LVM+encryption. Can't remember the commands to do that off the top of my head, but it's doable.
[16:23] <WeeBey> Ah boy.
[16:24] <WeeBey> Thansk for the help arraybolt3
[16:24] <jhutchins> arraybolt3: Well, yeah, I doubt anybody encrypts stuff accidentally.
[16:24] <WeeBey> I like encrypting and testing things
[16:25] <WeeBey> I do it on VMs so I don't mess up my own system. Then sure, i forgot and was using the VM for other stuff.
[16:25] <jhutchins> WeeBey: Once you get things stabilised again, one of the great features of VMs is that you can take a snapshot of the virtual hard drives and save those as backup.
[16:25] <jhutchins> Storage is cheap these days.
[16:26] <WeeBey> jhutchins: yep. Amazing if I had one. haha. Like I said, it was a silly slip that has never happened before. i was just typing too fast to free up space.
[16:26] <WeeBey> and oh boy did i free up space.
[16:26] <WeeBey> lol
[16:27] <jhutchins> WeeBey: Well, I once deleted the contents of a commercial muti-site web server, so it's not like you're the only one.  You have my sympathy.
[16:28] <WeeBey> jhutchins: ooof. This was personal stuff and not critical just crappy. I can't imagine THAT stress.
[16:28] <jhutchins> Experience is proportionate to data destroyed.
[16:29] <WeeBey> Well. I would say that now I should make a snapshot but... it's kinda sad to make a backup of an empty drive
[16:29] <WeeBey> haha
[16:30] <WeeBey> This is my command: rm -r clang+llvm-15.0.5-x86_64-linux-gnu-ubuntu-18.04/*
[16:31] <WeeBey> wait no. this one rm clang+llvm-15.0.5-x86_64-linux-gnu-ubuntu-18.04 *
[16:32] <WeeBey> Well, lesson learned. Thanks fellas. But I will definitely have a look at that testdisk app. looks interesting. Maybe i'll snapshot then try that application in case i mess something else up.
[16:51] <teomondina> Help
[16:51] <teomondina> aiuto
[16:51] <jhutchins> !it
[16:53] <teomondina> I would like to connect my PC through the LAN home network to the smart TV as I did in Windows
[16:54] <teomondina> I've tried them all
[16:55] <teomondina> tnx
[17:00] <jhutchins> teomondina: What application did you use in Windows?
[17:02] <teomondina> I no longer use windows 10
[17:02] <teomondina> Now I use Lubunto
[17:04] <teomondina> I was using Windows to share video files from an external HD
[17:06] <teomondina> I tried to use SAMBA, but I failed
[17:07] <teomondina> jhutchins, However, I would like to thank you for your interest
[17:48] <WeeBey> I just remembered. I do have a backup. It's inside a cloned disk copy that i made a month ago using dd ! It's possible to mount this bit-by-bit copy and access my file, right?
[17:48] <WeeBey> I'm seeing answers that say yes, but they reference a dd copy of a partition not the entire disk.
[17:49] <ravage> WeeBey: if it is a single partition you can use mount -o loop
[17:50] <WeeBey> ravage: yeah, that's the info that I was seeing. But it's the full drive.
[17:50] <ravage> if you image has multiple partitions you can use kpartx for examle
[17:50] <ravage> sudo kpartx -av disk_image.raw
[17:50] <ravage> and then something like: sudo mount /dev/mapper/loop0p2 /mnt
[17:51] <ravage> after umount also do kpartx -d disk_image.raw
[17:51] <ravage> to remove the loop devices
[17:51] <WeeBey> Hmm. that's interesting. I had not heard of this.
[17:51] <WeeBey> I appreciate the help.
[17:59] <code105> is Exploiting Tool TheFatRat safe to use and download from github ?
[18:01] <oerheks> code105, not supported here. so we can say anything
[18:02] <oerheks> you better look for pentesting channels
[18:05] <WeeBey> ravage: another question... is it possible to mount these .img files from DD on a VM (Vbox or Vmware)?
[18:05] <ravage> if your virt. solution supports to add disk images as storage devices then ye
[18:06] <WeeBey> ravage: hmm. I'll look into this. Thanks !
[18:19] <code105> Newbie Question , there's an antivirus for ubnutu ? if yes what is the best one ?
[18:19] <rbox> no
[18:19] <oerheks> there are scanners, but pretty useless.
[18:20] <oerheks> !antivirus
[18:23] <code105> How to install tar.gz file
[18:23] <oerheks> seriously, you could not find that answer?
[18:23] <rbox> step 1 read the instructions
[18:24] <oerheks> seems like we are doing your homework?
[18:24] <code105> Is newbie Questions now allowed here?
[18:24] <jhutchins> code105: You don't.
[18:25] <WeeBey> ah boy. Im reading that I gotta convert my 1tb dd img file. Ugh. Nope. Data gone.
[18:25] <jhutchins> code105: A tar.gz file is just compressed data. It can be one or more files or folders.
[18:25] <oerheks> questions are allowed, but you should investigate the web first.
[18:30] <jhutchins> WeeBey: Convert it to what?
[18:38] <WeeBey> jhutchins: some vm-readable format. Suggested using qmu to turn to vmdk etc.
[18:40] <code105> I'm sign in as a root - But when i open the Disk of System (C) , I can't do any action to files or folders like move - copy - cut - remove !
[18:45] <EriC^^> code105: signed in to where as root? typically the root account is locked in ubuntu
[18:47] <oerheks> sudo -i # gives a session as root, but if your system is RO read only, one cannot do anything.
[18:53] <Macwinner> hi, i see openssl 3.0.8 is latest patch release
[18:53] <Macwinner> but my system version is 3.0.2?
[18:53] <rbox> Macwinner: and?
[18:54] <tomreyn> !latest | Macwinner
[18:54] <Macwinner> having some issues across cluster of servers.. lots of troubleshooting leading to theory maybe we are facing some weird vulneratbility with haproxy and libssl.. just shot in dark.
[18:55] <Macwinner> sorry, super vague.. have tried lots of different things
[18:55] <Macwinner> going to eliminate a openssl issue by building haproxy against latest patch release
[18:57] <tomreyn> you're welcome to ask again once you have details you can share.
[18:58] <oerheks> openssl 3.07 release date feb 7, jammy version https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl/3.0.2-0ubuntu1.8 https://www.openssl.org/news/openssl-3.0-notes.html
[18:58] <oerheks> your are patched ...
[18:58] <oerheks> see cve numbers
[18:58] <oerheks> Macwinner, ^^
[18:59] <oerheks> version numbering is not equal, so i understand the confusion
[18:59] <Macwinner> got it
[18:59] <Macwinner> thanks oerheks!
[18:59] <oerheks> have fubn!
[19:00] <oerheks> err fun
[19:01] <Macwinner> sorry for vagueness.. been a couple days of very little sleep trying to figure this out..
[19:03] <Macwinner> oerheks: if the 3.0.8 changes haven't made it into jammy, is it because the the team has not determined them to be a significant vulnerability? or just maybe timing thing?
[19:04] <oerheks> it has been made, patched.
[19:04] <oerheks> only Lunar has the new version numbering https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl
[19:05] <oerheks> take a read why https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutoStatic/PackagingVersioningScheme
[19:05] <Macwinner> thanks.. sorry for ignorance.. we recently switched from centos to ubuntu so still getting up to speed
[19:16] <JeFF2nice> hello
[19:16] <JeFF2nice> salut
[19:17] <z_> jojo
[19:17] <z_> ge moder
[21:10] <jhutchins> What do peope still use the PC card interface for?
[21:11] <leftyfb> !ot | jhutchins
[21:14] <travisghansen> I have an apt source which I only want a couple packages from, currently it installed updated versions of stuff *over* official ubuntu packages which I would like to revert (purge the versions installed from the 3rd party repo and ensure official versions are installed). Also I would like to pin/prevent any further updates from that repo except for
[21:14] <travisghansen> the specific packages I allow. Is this possible and if so how? Thanks in advance!
[21:15] <travisghansen> the instructions floating around on the internet seems to be pretty hacky things and generally don't instill a lot of confidence in the desired outcome :(
[21:16] <rbox> "seem hacky"?
[21:16] <rbox> apt pinning is how to do it...
[21:19] <travisghansen> yeah, really random scripts piping through 4 or 5 things etc...I don't want to *purge* the packages, I want to make sure the packages are there but installed from ubuntu repos
[21:20] <travisghansen> if I pin is there an apt command that I can use to 'downgrade' to the proper repos?
[21:20] <rbox> just set the pin and reinstall the pacakge
[21:21] <rbox> doing a dist-upgrade shoudl get them to the correct version
[21:23] <travisghansen> lemme see if I can get a pin configuration that does what I want then and try a dist-upgrade
[21:29] <webchat52> hi everyone i'm effe
[21:30] <webchat52> i've a problem a few minutes ago..open a video file with the standard video player on ubuntu crash and then the folder disappear but with the terminal i can see the folder and the video file!
[21:33] <oerheks> ubuntu crashed on a video file?
[21:34] <rbox> like dave matthews? crash... in to me... yeah...
[21:35] <oerheks> ubuntu or just the videoplayer?
[21:39] <oerheks> webchat52, ??
[21:48] <z_> Helllo everyone! Does anyone know how to write a bash script which would loop if either no input is given or too many inputs are given?
[21:49] <z_> Say I have this command: nmap some-ip-here -p 1-99999 | awk "/\/tcp/" | cut -d/ -f1
[21:49] <leftyfb> z_: try asking in #bash
[21:49] <z_> how do I get there xd
[21:49] <z_> I opened this chat from ubuntu website...
[21:49] <leftyfb> z_: /join #bash
[21:50] <z_> ty let me try
[21:51] <Rajput> Hi all
[21:52] <oerheks> :-)
[21:53] <Rajput> what is inside third party software while ubuntu-mate install
[21:54] <oerheks> !restricted
[21:56] <Rajput> if VLC can play everything than still we need to install codecs like things ?
[21:56] <hiya> Is Telemetry enabled by default on Ubuntu Desktop and server systems including docker containers, kubernetes pods?
[21:56] <oerheks> no, but you still need to install dvd stuff, that is not included in VLC
[21:56] <oerheks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
[21:57] <Rajput> thanks sir
[22:01] <oerheks> hiya, yes, but manually. but it is easy to disable; ubuntu-report -f send no
[22:02] <hiya> oerheks: But during first boot it asks you for reports to be sent to Canonical which defaults to yes, if we say no to it, it should be all, right?
[22:02] <oerheks> yes.
[22:02] <oerheks> you still would get the Q if a problem occurs, to send it.
[22:03] <hiya> oerheks: so if we click yes again, telemetry is on?
[22:04] <ravage> if you enable an option.. it is usally on yes
[22:05] <Rajput> is telemetry good thing,what professional says?
[22:05] <oerheks> tin foil hats say no.
[22:06] <oerheks> it just helps detecting issues. anonymously
[22:06] <Rajput> hmm like usage date collection of users
[22:06] <Rajput> data*
[22:07] <ravage> https://ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy/2013-03-25
[22:07] <oerheks> https://github.com/linuxhw/Trends/tree/master/Dist/Ubuntu
[22:08] <Rajput> so thats why FSF/GNU recommending other distros
[22:08] <oerheks> yes, about applications on your hardware, and network/internet issues that are a problem
[22:08] <oerheks> browsers do this too...
[22:09] <Rajput> While Ubuntu offers many features, there are also many privacy issues people are concerned about.
[22:10] <ravage> Rajput: you can discuss any concerns your may have in #ubuntu-discuss
[22:10] <ravage> this is a support channel only
[22:10] <webchat52> when i said what crushed is the video player standard, and then the window manager
[22:12] <travisghansen> rbox: this really isn't working...dist-upgrade isn't re-installing from the ubuntu repos and further more it's going to remove the 1 package I *do* want from the repo (which isn't in the ubuntu repos at all)
[22:12] <webchat52> called "file" hide one folder where i was attempt to open a video file..sorry, thanks a lot and good job byez
[22:13] <oerheks> travisghansen, without details what repo you added, it is hard to tell what to do to reverse.
[22:13] <oerheks> ' generally'  rbox is right
[22:15] <travisghansen> https://pastebin.com/4Phq6vuM
[22:17] <oerheks> oh pop-os .. they add very special stuff to ubuntu, hard to reverse. and using some of their packages is questionable
[22:17] <ravage> burn that installation. start fresh. dont add unsupportted PPAs
[22:17] <travisghansen> https://pastebin.com/u2hdQt61
[22:17] <leftyfb> uh
[22:18] <leftyfb> travisghansen: if you added the pop-os repo and did updates, you are not longer running ubuntu
[22:18] <oerheks> and kernel 6.2 .. not supported here, yet.
[22:18] <leftyfb> nor pop-os
[22:18] <travisghansen> I'm not interested in flame wars, I need the power package and only have 10-15 pop-os packages
[22:18] <leftyfb> travisghansen: reinstall ubuntu
[22:18] <oerheks> again; using some of their packages is questionable..
[22:19] <travisghansen> I rarely use ubuntu/apt-based distros
[22:19] <leftyfb> travisghansen: it's not a flame war, adding the pop-os repo installs half the OS over Ubuntu, but leave out just enough to make a complete mess
[22:19] <leftyfb> travisghansen: you have a broken OS now
[22:20] <travisghansen> that's utter bullshit, it's a server and has only minimal packages installed...forget it's pop os, how do I get apt/dpkg to (re)install the ubuntu versions for the 10 packages I don't want
[22:20] <ravage> please watch your language
[22:21] <travisghansen> notes
[22:21] <travisghansen> noted
[22:21] <oerheks> travisghansen, with kernel 6.2?
[22:22] <leftyfb> travisghansen: remove the pop-os and try to: sudo apt install --reinstall <package:verson> # for every package, finding the version by looking through apt-cache policy <package> for each version
[22:22] <travisghansen> I still have 5.15..and yes I would like that gone as well. I don't get how coming from pop-os repo matters vs the kernel generic ppa
[22:22] <travisghansen> leftyfb: lemme give that a try real quick and see what I get
[22:22] <leftyfb> travisghansen: because the kernel came from pop-os
[22:22] <ravage> if it is a minimal server install a reinstall should not take longer than 30 minutes
[22:22] <oerheks> jammy + HWE gives 5.19 ..
[22:23] <travisghansen> ravage: I have my reasons to not want to re-install..
[22:23] <leftyfb> travisghansen: at this point, you have a mess of an OS, as much as you assume otherwise. Trying to fix it is going to take more effort and time than just a reinstall of Ubuntu
[22:23] <ravage> good luck :)
[22:23] <leftyfb> travisghansen: and note, you're basically outside the type of support typically given here with unsupported core packages and kernel installed
[22:27] <travisghansen> it's basic package management features, I'm not asking for support for kernel 6.2 or any other garbage actually installed by the repo
[22:29] <hiya> ravage: but if we said no on first boot, why does it ask again and again about reporting?
[22:30] <ravage> not sure what you mean by again and again
[22:31] <oerheks> you still would get the Q if a problem occurs, to send it.
[22:31] <oerheks> even when you say no
[22:31] <oerheks> disable whoopsie
[22:31] <oerheks> https://askubuntu.com/questions/135540/what-is-the-whoopsie-process-and-how-can-i-remove-it
[22:32] <hiya> oerheks: but if we say yes for this specific problem, would it enable telemetry?
[22:32] <oerheks> no. it sends just that one time.
[22:33] <leftyfb> travisghansen: ( for i in `apt list --installed 2>/dev/null|awk -F/ '{print $1}'`; do echo $i $(apt-cache policy $i|grep -A2 Version|tail -n1);done|grep pop-os ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[22:33] <hiya> oerheks: I can't find Telemetry page for Ubuntu, what should I search?
[22:35] <oerheks> [23:07:32] <ravage> https://ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy/2013-03-25
[22:35] <oerheks> oops you know my timezone now
[22:36] <arraybolt3> https://ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy
[22:37] <arraybolt3> the other link is an older version
[22:37] <ravage> oh i read 2023 before
[22:38] <ravage> yep 2013 may not be accurate anymore :)
[22:43] <jhutchins> What kind of PC cards (the credit card sized ones) are supported by current versions of Ubuntu?
[22:44] <rbox> you mean laptops from the 90s? probalby none
[22:44] <rbox> lol
[22:44] <leftyfb> jhutchins: you know that's a loaded question. Why do you ask? I can think of at least half a dozen different types of "PC cards" all with their own purposes and drivers
[22:44] <jhutchins> leftyfb: The question is whether they are still supported.
[22:45] <jhutchins> In Ubuntu.
[22:45] <leftyfb> jhutchins: https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/en/man4/pccard.4freebsd.html probably
[22:46] <leftyfb> https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/man8/pccardctl.8.html
[22:46] <oerheks> PCMCIA ?
[22:47] <oerheks> all of them, since kernel 2.4 ?
[22:47] <jhutchins> oerheks: Isn't that more of an internal bus?
[22:47] <jhutchins> oerheks: The ones I have are labeled "PC Card".
[22:48] <leftyfb> jhutchins: it would help if you would divulge why you want to know if PCMCIA card will work in ubuntu. They could be a modem, serial, ethernet, wifi, storage, custom interface for a device, etc
[22:48] <oerheks> In the past, the cards were known as PCMCIA cards, but they are now referred to as PC cards
[22:48] <leftyfb> jhutchins: a model# would help
[22:48] <jhutchins> oerheks: So none of them have been deprecated as far as you know?
[22:48] <oerheks> https://pcmcia-cs.sourceforge.net/ftp/SUPPORTED.CARDS
[22:48] <leftyfb> jhutchins: plug them in and try them
[22:49] <oerheks> cards need to be plugged in, before boot.
[22:49] <jhutchins> oerheks: Ok, I think the standards might have been a little different too.  PC Card may be an inclusive term.
[22:53] <elias_a> I actually tested last year if an old firewire card still works. As much as I can remember, the bus worked but firewire was not supported by the kernel anymore.
[22:54] <elias_a> Reason for testing: tens of hours of HDV cassettes and the only output in the camcorder is firewire. :)
[22:55] <oerheks> it still is ....
[22:57] <elias_a> oerheks: Firewire?
[22:58] <oerheks> maybe some cards are not supported.
[23:00] <oerheks> !find libavc1394
[23:01] <elias_a> oerheks: TY. I'll check the nature of the problem tomorrow.
[23:02] <elias_a> Luckily I have several firewire cards with different chipsets...
[23:03] <oerheks> there are changes to come .. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.1-Staging
[23:07] <travisghansen> leftyfb: finally found a sane solution based on priority explanation spelled out here: https://gist.github.com/JPvRiel/8ae81e21ce6397a0502fedddca068507
[23:07] <travisghansen> I just set the ubuntu repos to priority 1001 and did an 'upgrade' which downgraded packages that were 'upgraded' by the pop-os repo...all clean now
[23:08] <leftyfb> travisghansen: ( for i in `apt list --installed 2>/dev/null|awk -F/ '{print $1}'`; do echo $i $(apt-cache policy $i|grep -A2 Version|tail -n1);done|grep pop-os ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[23:08] <travisghansen> commented out the priority after that as I have already lowered the priority on the pop repo
[23:08] <leftyfb> travisghansen: that will show all the packages installed from pop-os
[23:11] <travisghansen> it seems not perfectly no: https://pastebin.com/zTXktQgr
[23:11] <leftyfb> you definitely want to roll those back, and remove the system-76 packages
[23:12] <travisghansen> I can't remove the system76 packages..I need a functioning fan lol
[23:12] <travisghansen> that's the whole reason I have the repo to begin with
[23:13] <oerheks> so you are not on 5.15?
[23:13] <leftyfb> travisghansen: you'll at least need to roll back the rest including the kernel
[23:13] <travisghansen> I'll remove the remaining kernel packages and reboot shortly to 5.15
[23:14] <travisghansen> leftyfb: yeah, will do
[23:15] <travisghansen> seems to give me legit details: https://pastebin.com/mhq1NxAE
[23:16] <leftyfb> more code and less accurate results, but sure
[23:16] <travisghansen> leftyfb: than your command? or something else?
[23:16] <leftyfb> yes
[23:17] <travisghansen> leftyfb: your command is not valid results..so not really helpful
[23:17] <leftyfb> how do you figure?
[23:17] <travisghansen> the 'not perfectly' pastebin shows why
[23:18] <travisghansen> your command give ubuntu-drivers-common in the output which as shown is *not* installed from their repo
[23:18] <travisghansen> (among others)
[23:22] <leftyfb> travisghansen: fixed ( for i in `apt list --installed 2>/dev/null|awk -F/ '{print $1}'`; do echo $i $(apt-cache policy $i|grep -A1 -- "\*\*\*"|tail -n1);done|grep pop-os ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[23:27] <travisghansen> leftyfb: those results seem sane yeah
[23:27] <travisghansen> significantly slower than the dpkg command but if the results are better I'll keep it
[23:28] <leftyfb> it's slower because it's looping through the entire list of packages
[23:39] <EriC^^> travisghansen: if interested https://github.com/ericj112/ppa-tool
[23:40] <ravage> EriC^^: does that work randomly added sources?
[23:41] <EriC^^> yeah, that was the whole idea of making it cause ppa-purge only used to work with launchpad
[23:41] <ravage> nice
[23:42] <leftyfb> EriC^^: damn, even accounted for added repo's that are commented out
[23:43] <EriC^^> :D
[23:43] <leftyfb> EriC^^: very nice code, albeit a bit pythony ;)
[23:43] <EriC^^> total amateur coder here, just getting it done type stuff :)
[23:43] <hiya> Can I share the post I wrote about choosing Debian or Ubuntu here?
[23:44] <ravage> EriC^^: i get "Error: ppa list file doesn't exist, try apt-get update first" for all my PPAs
[23:44] <leftyfb> hiya: try #ubuntu-discuss or #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:44] <leftyfb> EriC^^: hm, yep, same her
[23:45] <leftyfb> here*
[23:45] <EriC^^> ravage: i wonder if the ppa's are added straight to the soruces.list ? i remember it only looking at .list files
[23:45] <leftyfb> they're not
[23:45] <ravage> sources.list.d
[23:46] <leftyfb> I can dig into it more a bit later, gonna get back to not doing this type of stuff before I actually have to do some planned maintenance at 11pm tonight
[23:49] <EriC^^> ravage: getting same thing here, wonder what's changed
[23:50] <ravage> maybe it cant handle the new signed-by flags in the list files?
[23:50] <ravage> ok. its not "new" but the last script update also was a while back :)
[23:52] <ForeverNoob[m]> Hi, FS went RO, rebooted and was met with this:
[23:52] <ravage> EriC^^: ppa list file /var/lib/apt/lists/https:__apt.syncthing.net_dists_syncthing_stable_*_Packages doesn't exist
[23:52]  * ForeverNoob[m] uploaded an image: (3892KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/aennsefNmTEcRdMujQNoeTrK/20230320_003646_3294930677515730742_20230320003854.jpg >
[23:52] <ForeverNoob[m]> I can't clone my drive right now. Is it safe to run fsck manually like it says?
[23:52] <ravage> i added $i to the output. i guess we have to look at those cut commands a little deeper
[23:53] <leftyfb> ForeverNoob[m]: I would run a SMART test before doing anything.
[23:53] <EriC^^> ravage: it's cause of the https
[23:53] <leftyfb> ForeverNoob[m]: and then take a backup if you don't have one
[23:53] <leftyfb> ForeverNoob[m]: and THEN try an fsck
[23:54] <oerheks> fsck -f /dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root
[23:54] <ForeverNoob[m]> leftyfb: aren't SMART tests notoriously unreliable on SSDs?
[23:54] <leftyfb> ForeverNoob[m]: I don't know about notoriously
[23:55] <oerheks> seems like bionic, support ends soon
[23:55] <leftyfb> end of April
[23:56] <oerheks> why would smart be unreliable?
[23:56] <ForeverNoob[m]> Yeah was about to upgrade :(
[23:57] <oerheks> as studio switched to KDE, do a fresh install
[23:57] <ForeverNoob[m]> It was my understanding that SMART was more a thing for spinning drives. Because of SSD controllers that would give unreliable representation of things.
[23:59] <ForeverNoob[m]> OK so there's a Mac near me. I can try to flash a USB stick with sysrescuecd or something in order to do a SMART test.


[19:13] <pikachuza> hi all. I am trying to get a easy to follow example for packaging a war file as a deb package. I was referred to jenkins but I am at a loss how to install it. There appears to be no meta package and I cannot seem to find the war file itself.
[19:14] <pikachuza> Anyone got some pointers?


[09:20] <mlankhorst> Hello, world!
[09:48] <Laney> mlankhorst: <tumbleweed>
[09:51] <larsu> happy new year!
[09:52] <Laney> hey larsu mlankhorst, happy new year!
[09:52] <Laney> did you have good holidays?
[09:53] <larsu> Laney: yep, the usual: lots of family visting and food. How about you?
[09:53]  * larsu tried to stay away from the computer as well, with varying success
[09:54] <mlankhorst> larsu/Laney: happy newyear :-)
[09:54] <Laney> travelling, visiting people, food, board games & walking
[09:54]  * Laney got Cards Against Humanity... muhahaha
[09:55] <Laney> still have today and tomorrow to fill with climbing & cycling
[09:55] <larsu> nice!
[11:02] <mlankhorst> Laney: ugh climbing :P
[11:03] <mlankhorst> biking's no fun either in the cold
[14:57] <cyphermox> good morning! happy new year everyone!
[15:25] <desrt> cyphermox: happy new year :)
[15:26] <cyphermox> hey desrt
[15:26] <desrt> i hear it's going to be the year of linux on the desktop
[15:26] <cyphermox> hahah yes, of course it will
[15:26] <cyphermox> it's been 10 of those already
[15:26] <desrt> (inb4)
[15:31] <desrt> quiet day.  i guess a lot of people took the extra two days
[15:37] <cyphermox> yup
[15:37] <cyphermox> desrt: any ideas for a frivolous way to spend 50$?
[15:37] <cyphermox> tech-related is best :)
[15:37] <desrt> eff or wikipedia donation
[15:38] <cyphermox> ah, I hadn't thought of that
[15:39] <desrt> could also buy a rasppi and an SD card, i guess
[15:39] <cyphermox> meh
[15:39] <desrt> ya... that's about the response i have after owning one for a while
[15:39] <desrt> unless you have a specific project in mind, a VM is more fun :)
[15:40] <desrt> (and for most projects i end up wanting to do, an arduino is typically more than enough)
[15:40] <cyphermox> I already have a arduino
[15:41] <cyphermox> which triggered me finding out that I really suck at soldering
[15:41] <desrt> it's also a meh unless you have a project for it
[15:41] <cyphermox> right
[15:45] <cyphermox> I thought I might find some little bluetooth majiger to hack and play with and write an app for on Touch, but I lack inspiration
[16:04] <davmor2> cyphermox: look at youtube there are some pretty good guides to how to get better at soldering :)
[16:05] <davmor2> cyphermox: are you the pest person to ask about why n-m randomly seems to disconnect from a wifi ap?  and what stuff do you need for a bug?
[16:06] <cyphermox> yes, and mostly just syslog
[16:07] <cyphermox> from syslog I can usually tell you why, as long as it's complete
[16:08] <davmor2> cyphermox: due to being on images longer over the holiday, I've noticed that on long sleeps when you wake the phone it shows the "there are networks available" symbol instead of being connected, if I select my network it connects again fine
[16:09] <davmor2> cyphermox: I'll see if it has happened now and grab some logs if it has
[17:43] <attente> hi, could someone help me upload a new unity-gtk-module to trusty?


[07:56] <Myrtti> Amaranth__, apachelogger, czajkowski, Guest35752: please remember to identify
[11:40] <jussi> @login
[11:42] <Myrtti> @login
[11:42] <Myrtti> ooo
[11:42] <jussi> :
[11:43] <Myrtti> @whoami
[11:43] <jussi> :)
[11:43] <Myrtti> excellent
[16:36] <mneptok> @login
[16:36] <mneptok> @whoami
[16:36] <mneptok> YAY!
[16:36]  * mneptok hurls botsnacks liberally
[18:13] <mneptok> !mark #ubuntu SuBmUnDo repeated warnings about /away messages
[18:14] <mneptok> whatever.
[18:14] <ikonia> @mark
[18:16] <mneptok> ikonia: you made me a liar!
[18:17] <mneptok> ya bastard. :)
[18:17] <mneptok> 11:12 < mneptok> SuBmUnDo: if i tell you about /away messages again, it will be because you are appealing a ban i set on you.
[18:17] <mneptok> SuBmUnDo: welcome to #ubuntu-ops
[18:18] <SuBmUnDo> thanks
[18:19] <SuBmUnDo> and bye bye
[18:19] <ikonia> he's in for a shock as he was also muted in ##linux for the away stuff
[18:19]  * genii-around waits for them to realize they can't get into #u and return
[18:20] <mneptok> genii-around: by "waits" do you mean "brews some fresh coffee for when they return?"

[18:40] <mneptok> -_-
[18:41] <mneptok> i wonder if anyone has ever complained because the fecal undertaste is not strong enough to make them feel not-ripped-off
[18:41] <mneptok> speaking of potential complaints, i think that will be my last comment on this subject ;)
[18:42] <pangolin> few more like that....never mind
 What is the difference between "unformatted", "formatted" and "IBM formatted"?
[20:25] <oCean> just because he wants to continue the floppy thing?
[20:26] <Pici> no idea
[20:26] <Pici> I feel like people are just trying to be difficult today.


[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[13:14] <paultag> morning, dholbach
[13:14]  * paultag kicks back
[13:16] <trinikrono> mornings!
[13:16] <paultag> morning! :)
[13:16] <trinikrono> what are you kicking
[13:16] <paultag> trinikrono: back, of course
[13:16] <trinikrono> ok
[13:16] <nigelb> Morning paultag
[13:16] <trinikrono> maybe its a english thing
[13:16] <nigelb> Its a paultag thing :P
[13:16] <paultag> trinikrono: to relax :)
[13:16] <paultag> nigelb: ohai
[13:17] <paultag> trinikrono: to kick one's feet back (usually up onto something and lean back)
[13:17] <trinikrono> haha how can you type like that
[13:17] <paultag> trinikrono: well, I'm at work, so it's a very mild movement :)
[13:18] <trinikrono> paultag: do you guys still working on the loco directory
[13:18] <trinikrono> well are you
[13:18] <paultag> trinikrono: am I? I'm not, and I was never very involved (except for a few CSS overhauls), it's mostly cjohnston / nigelb / mhall119
[13:19] <paultag> in almost-alphabetical order
[13:19] <nigelb> I've mostly switched to handling summit, its exclusively cjohnston for LTP :D
[13:19] <nigelb> I just review code.
[13:19] <paultag> LTP sounds like an STD, I'm calling it the LD :)
[13:19] <trinikrono> hahaa
[13:19] <paultag> plus, I spend my days at work with "the portal" so I don't want that in my free time
[13:20] <trinikrono> paultag: you are familar with the map they have in the LD right
[13:20] <paultag> (she's the one who gave me a case of the LTP)
[13:20] <paultag> trinikrono: yeah sure
[13:20] <trinikrono> i am trinidad and tobago in the carribbean
[13:20] <paultag> totally, sure
[13:20] <trinikrono> which is seperate from north and south america
[13:21] <paultag> I think that was an AlanBell invention, if I recall
[13:21] <paultag> trinikrono: full-ack
[13:21] <trinikrono> so they put some of the countries in the caribbean in north
[13:21] <cjohnston> almost alphabetical order getting 1/3rd right.. hehe ;-)
[13:21] <trinikrono> and some in south
[13:21] <paultag> trinikrono: I seem to recall that being a quick hack
[13:21] <paultag> trinikrono: file a bug, let's get that sorted
[13:21] <trinikrono> well its going to become a issue
[13:21] <trinikrono> i am just thinking at this stage
[13:21] <trinikrono> i am helping dominica and martinique to come with teams also
[13:21] <paultag> trinikrono: if it's not done correctly, or it's not sensitive to the local culture, we must fix this
[13:22] <trinikrono> ok great
[13:22] <trinikrono> so the best thing would be file a bug
[13:22] <paultag> trinikrono: yeah, totally
[13:22] <trinikrono> i need to talk to the guy from haiti first
[13:22] <trinikrono> magicfab i believe
[13:22] <paultag> trinikrono: I'm sure someone like cjohnston would be happy to triage that guy
[13:22] <paultag> trinikrono: magicfab is not haiti, I don't think
[13:22] <cjohnston> trinikrono: what teams are wrong?
[13:22] <trinikrono> haha
[13:22] <trinikrono> well trinidad is not south america to start with
[13:23] <paultag> trinikrono: yeah, magicfab is in canada
[13:23] <trinikrono> i think we need a carribean team or region
[13:23] <nigelb> paultag: He's originally from haiti or something.
[13:23] <paultag> nigelb: south america, I thought
[13:23] <nigelb> I remember some talk / discussion of two teams from magicfab.
[13:23] <cjohnston> trinikrono: its not done by regions.. they are continents
[13:23] <trinikrono> we are a bunch of small islands
[13:23] <trinikrono> but some are english french etc
[13:24] <trinikrono> like haiti is french
[13:24] <trinikrono> trinidad and tobago is english
[13:24] <trinikrono> dominica is english
[13:24] <trinikrono> martinique is french
[13:24] <trinikrono> but we are not closeby
[13:24] <paultag> trinikrono: locos have nothing to do with language :)
[13:24] <trinikrono> so i belive we should have different teams for the islands
[13:25] <trinikrono> but a user was asking that we have all of the people in one place
[13:25] <trinikrono> like a caribbean team
[13:25] <trinikrono> to centralise the carribbean islands
[13:25] <cjohnston> trinikrono: if people want to create different teams they can
[13:25] <trinikrono> well thats the thing
[13:25] <paultag> I'm on the page now, cjohnston
[13:25] <paultag> it's confusing me
[13:25] <paultag> I can't tell which is which
[13:25] <paultag> let's block all the islands together
[13:25] <trinikrono> :D
[13:25] <trinikrono> well right
[13:26] <trinikrono> we do things differently
[13:26] <cjohnston> paultag: im trying to figure out.. i believe it may have been czajkowski who did the continents, but im not sure.
[13:26] <paultag> cjohnston: that's not the issue here, dude
[13:26] <paultag> cjohnston: http://loco.ubuntu.com/ <- image
[13:26] <paultag> cjohnston: find haiti
[13:26] <cjohnston> paultag: your talking the big one irght?
[13:26] <paultag> see how it's hard to select? it's not exactly clear which bit it's a part of
[13:26] <paultag> cjohnston: yeah
[13:26] <trinikrono> hahahaa
[13:26] <trinikrono> yes or trinidad
[13:27] <paultag> or trinidad
[13:27] <paultag> or any of the islands, really
[13:27] <trinikrono> we are in south america
[13:27] <trinikrono> and haiti is in north america
[13:27] <paultag> cjohnston: can you reproduce>
[13:27] <trinikrono> i nearly fell of my chair when i first saw it
[13:27] <cjohnston> paultag: according to wikipedia, T&T is south america...
[13:27] <paultag> cjohnston: then you must block out all those islands to their block by hand
[13:28] <paultag> cjohnston: it looks like an arbatrary split now
[13:28] <paultag> unless it's correct
[13:28] <trinikrono> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean
[13:28] <trinikrono> have a look see
[13:28] <cjohnston> on the actual map it may be... i dont know.. but afaik the teams are where the teams belong.. so if you know that the team is in south america, then click south america
[13:28] <trinikrono> also known as west indies
[13:29] <paultag> trinikrono: theres a block there that says it's considerd part of north america
[13:29] <cjohnston> trinikrono: its by continent...
[13:29] <paultag> Geopolitically, the West Indies are usually regarded as a subregion of North America
[13:30] <paultag> actually, from my eye it looks mostly ok
[13:30] <paultag> looking at where it is split
[13:31] <trinikrono> so are we considered a part of north america then
[13:31] <paultag> trinikrono: just like canada and mexico
[13:32] <paultag> according to this page
[13:32] <cjohnston> trinikrono: according to wikipedia T&T is south america
[13:32] <czajkowski> eh what have i done now...
[13:32] <cjohnston> im not saying wikipedia is always correct, but we dont have hundreds of hours to do research
[13:32] <trinikrono> haha
[13:32] <latinachica_> Well that info is in correct
[13:32] <cjohnston> czajkowski: nothing wrong..
[13:32] <czajkowski> ah ok
[13:32] <paultag> czajkowski: everything wrong
[13:32] <latinachica_> We are In the Caribbean
[13:33] <cjohnston> czajkowski: did you assign the continents to teams?
[13:33] <paultag> no no no, that's not the point, man
[13:33] <czajkowski> some not all
[13:33] <trinikrono> latinachica_: we are considered a subregion of north america
[13:33] <cjohnston> ok
[13:33] <paultag> trinikrono: to be totally fair, we don't have central mexico on there
[13:33] <latinachica_> Which is the West Indies When we have mail internationally it is sent to the West Indies in the Caribbean and NOT the americas
[13:33] <paultag> erm, america
[13:33] <czajkowski> mails were sent tellin teams to di it
[13:33] <paultag> not mexico
[13:33] <paultag> that'd be silly
[13:34]  * paultag shuffles off
[13:34] <trinikrono> haha
[13:34] <trinikrono> czajkowski: is it something i can change in the LD?
[13:34] <czajkowski> yes
[13:34] <mhall119> ok, so is the problem that the team is listed on the wrong continent, or that the big map hilights it with south america?
[13:34] <paultag> mhall119: purely display
[13:35] <paultag> so far as I can tell
[13:35] <mhall119> paultag: in that case, we've been wanting to get rid of the giant map anyway, as part of the front-page refresh for jono
[13:35] <trinikrono> paultag: that wasnt what i was talking about
[13:35] <paultag> whoh, ok, ok ok
[13:35] <paultag> I'm hella wrong
[13:35]  * mhall119 copy/pastes that for later ;)
[13:35] <trinikrono> i guess it isnt a issue as they are only 2 teams from the caribbean
[13:36] <trinikrono> but other islands have been talking to me
[13:36] <cjohnston> trinikrono: i guess i dont understand the issue
[13:36] <paultag> apparently, nor do I
[13:36] <paultag> let's start over
[13:36] <trinikrono> cjohnston: can we have the caribbean seperate from north and south america
[13:36] <paultag> Hi, trinikrono!
[13:36] <trinikrono> lol
[13:37] <cjohnston> trinikrono: no.
[13:37] <trinikrono> morning!
[13:37] <trinikrono> well ok
[13:37] <trinikrono> then the only thing to do is
[13:37] <cjohnston> trinikrono: its by continent
[13:37] <mhall119> trinikrono: caribbean isn't a continent
[13:37] <czajkowski> trinikrono care to start again
[13:37] <trinikrono> sure sure
[13:37] <trinikrono> i am kurt belgrave from the caribbean island of trinidad and tobago
[13:37] <mhall119> trinikrono: if you want to make an umbrella team for the caribbean teams in Launchpad,you can do that
[13:37] <paultag> Hi, Kurt!
[13:37] <trinikrono> mhall119: great!
[13:38] <paultag> oh sick
[13:38] <mhall119> trinikrono: but that won't be displayed in loco.ubuntu.com
[13:38] <trinikrono> the teams where asking me to have a unified team
[13:38] <trinikrono> thats ok
[13:38] <trinikrono> at least we would have a headquarters
[13:38] <trinikrono> we are seperate from both north and south america
[13:38] <paultag> that's fine :)
[13:38] <paultag> it's your team
[13:38] <latinachica_> Great
[13:38] <paultag> you can control the membership
[13:38] <trinikrono> as you would see we are a bunch of little islands
[13:39] <cjohnston> trinikrono: they still have to be associated with a continent
[13:39] <trinikrono> ok well thanks
[13:39] <trinikrono> yes
[13:39] <trinikrono> the teams in the LD
[13:39] <trinikrono> need to north america?
[13:40] <cjohnston> trinikrono: it depends on the team. Trinidad and Tobago seems to be in south america, so it is associated with south america
[13:40] <mhall119> trinikrono: we've been sticking to geological, not geopolitical, associations
[13:40] <trinikrono> well are nex to venzeula
[13:41] <trinikrono> but we are english and most of the south american are spanish
[13:41] <mhall119> except Brazil
[13:41] <trinikrono> so its no good for communication
[13:41] <mhall119> no, but it is good for locating
[13:41] <czajkowski> indeeed
[13:41] <mhall119> which is the only reason we have it grouped by continent
[13:42] <latinachica_> They rest of the world need to find us properly
[13:42] <latinachica_> They need to learn from now
[13:42] <latinachica_> We are the CAribbean
[13:42] <czajkowski> trinikrono same saud for eu.  its just about grouping to make things easier
[13:42] <trinikrono> okies
[13:42] <trinikrono> so in the LD
[13:43] <trinikrono> i put the caribbean as the region
[13:43] <trinikrono> in the details page
[13:43] <trinikrono> ?
[13:43] <mhall119> that would be fine
[13:43] <latinachica_> :)
[13:44] <trinikrono> ill make a launchpad team and try to get the other islands to join it
[13:45] <trinikrono> and then we will see from there
[13:45] <cjohnston> czajkowski: there are now three croatian teams.. all different
[13:46] <czajkowski> ive mailed them
[13:46] <cjohnston> ty
[14:08] <trinikrono> ive also come to report of the sucess of our facebook group
[14:08] <trinikrono> http://www.facebook.com/groups/285982144750674/
[14:09] <trinikrono> in trinidad and tobago everyone uses facebook and i found the forums and mailing list to be slow
[14:09] <trinikrono> and now we have 105 members :D
[14:12] <mhall119> nice
[14:12] <trinikrono> mhall119: yes its good for sending people who we give cds too
[14:13] <trinikrono> i am trying to get members to add new members too
[14:13] <trinikrono> hopefully 300 members by next year sometime
[14:13] <trinikrono> then i keep moving them across to launchpad
[14:19] <mhall119> trinikrono: social media is a great resource for that, I'm glad it's working out for you
[14:19] <paultag> /nick crabbytag
[14:19] <paultag> sometimes I hate the rif-raff that shows up in #fluxbox
[14:20] <trinikrono> well its just nice to have a meeting where people show up
[14:23] <mhall119> heh, rif-raff
[14:23] <paultag> >:|
[14:23]  * mhall119 is sorely tempted to /join now
[14:23] <paultag> i've had a quick /ignore trigger finger lately
[14:23] <paultag> ;)
[14:46] <dholbach> hey paultag
[14:47] <paultag> o/
[15:46] <AlanBell> paultag: no, the live map is not my invention
[15:46] <paultag> AlanBell: you did the mockup, then? I can't recall what you did
[15:46] <AlanBell> I wanted to do a second level of maps, and I did some prototypes for that
[15:46] <paultag> but you're guilty of something
[15:47] <AlanBell> yeah, guilty of something :)
[15:47] <paultag> :)
[15:47] <AlanBell> I want to get rid of /teams and replace it with /europe /asia /americas etc, each with maps on
[15:48] <AlanBell> the /teams page is really really full of sub-optimalness
[15:49] <paultag> ahh
[15:49] <paultag> yeah, I remember that now
[15:49] <paultag> Why don't we get a canonical UI'er to help
[15:49] <paultag> Oh wait, none of them help the community ;)
[15:49] <paultag> (zing!)
[15:50] <paultag> but really, we do need a UI'er on that
[15:50] <czajkowski> AlanBell: oh no.... why
[15:50] <AlanBell> why what?
[15:50] <paultag> czajkowski: I seem to recall the argument that it was confusing and disorderly
[15:51] <AlanBell> and slow
[15:51] <czajkowski> why are you moving team off /team page
[15:51] <czajkowski> I understand the not a map
[15:51] <AlanBell> splitting it
[15:52] <paultag> oh jeez
[15:52] <paultag> let's not do this again
[15:52] <czajkowski> :(
[15:52] <paultag> we had this flame war a few months back
[15:52] <AlanBell> so on the home page I click on Africa for example, it doesn't need to show me anything but africa
[15:52] <czajkowski> clearly it wasn't hot enough :p
[15:52] <paultag> :P
[15:52]  * AlanBell would just like to say czajkowski is awesome
[15:53] <AlanBell> so instead of linking to an anchor link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/#Africa it would go to http://loco.ubuntu.com/Africa and not load all the other continents I just indicated I didn't want to see :0
[15:54] <AlanBell> I can do that pretty easily in fact, without needing the maps
[15:54] <czajkowski> ok I seem to be confused
[15:54] <czajkowski> granted this is easy to happen
[15:54]  * paultag walks away . o O (what have I done!)
[15:54] <czajkowski> I assumed we were just getting rid of the massive map
[15:55] <AlanBell> what massive map?
[15:55] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/media/images/map.png this one?
[15:56] <czajkowski> yes
[15:56]  * trinikrono waits for paultag to kickback
[15:56]  * paultag kicks back, and watches the fight over a pina colada
[15:57] <AlanBell> there is no fighting!
[15:57] <paultag> and my name's jo-anne
[15:57] <czajkowski> no myself and AlanBell are having a normal conversation
[15:57] <czajkowski> o flaming here
[15:58] <czajkowski> no
[15:58] <AlanBell> indeed not, especially as I am seeing czajkowski in a pub on friday
[15:59] <paultag> :(
[15:59] <czajkowski> :)
[16:00] <AlanBell> I kind of like the world map, just when I click on a continent I find it odd that it shows me stuff I didn't click on in a scary big list, it just scrolls me to the anchor point I asked for in the list
[16:01] <AlanBell> plus of course if I click on south america it can't scroll that far so shows me North America
[16:01] <AlanBell> aaaanyhow, what I can do, is add new pages for the continents, leaving /teams right where it is for people who are not scared of it, and link the map to the continent pages
[16:02] <AlanBell> then we can add friendly maps to the continent pages when we feel like it
[16:03] <mhall119> AlanBell: +1
[16:04] <mhall119> paultag: we have a Canonical UI'er helping us on summit currently
[16:04] <AlanBell> mhall119: would I be right in thinking that /teams is a bit unfriendly to the database? does it have to instantiate every team object to get the name and appoved status?
[16:05] <mhall119> AlanBell: it does that, yes, but that's not terribly unfriendly thanks to Django's ORM
[16:05] <mhall119> AlanBell: the way the page is built is unfriendly to the CPU though
[16:05] <paultag> mhall119: because of the whole linaro thing, right?
[16:05] <mhall119> it used to be worse on the db, but I did some optimizing of that a while back
[16:05] <paultag> mhall119: that's not really community, they've been driving summit hard
[16:05] <mhall119> paultag: no, because we asked him to help and he said 'yes'
[16:05] <paultag> I'm sure someone @canonical asked them to
[16:06] <mhall119> yeah, me
[16:06] <nigelb> I thought they came to us telling  "it sucks, let us help you" :)
[16:06] <paultag> I wish people said that to me
[16:06] <mhall119> nigelb: I like my history better ;)
[16:08] <paultag> it seems like it's not feasable to get people to help with things I care about :)
[16:08] <paultag> perhaps because what I care about is not what others care about
[16:09] <mhall119> if you had more capital...
[16:10] <paultag> mhall119: you and your clout-fueled approach to f/oss :)
[16:11] <paultag> mhall119: so I was thinking about it, and what it strikes me as is mooshing a construct we have on something that's not totally applicable. It works in a lot of ways, and it may be a useful way to look at some things, but I can't imagine that's a great way to do f/oss-ology
[16:13] <mhall119> paultag: you're right in that it's not a perfect analogy, I'm just trying to find the closes approximation to a real-world system we understand, in the hopes that it will give us (and me especially) a better understanding of how to make the f/oss ecosystem run better
[16:13] <paultag> mhall119: sure, but one critical bit that you can't express with that model is something like forking
[16:13] <mhall119> I'm working on that
[16:13] <paultag> forking should never happen with your model, and if it does, it requires lots of high clout people
[16:14] <mhall119> well forking rarely happens, so I think my model isn't too far off already
[16:14] <paultag> whereas there are forks by a few pissed off folks who see an opening
[16:14] <mhall119> let me clarify, forks rarely succeed
[16:14] <paultag> sure
[16:14] <paultag> and when they do, there's often a merge
[16:14] <mhall119> for exactly the reasons my model says they shouldn't happen
[16:15] <mhall119> so again, not 100% accurate, but possibly close enough to be useful
[16:15] <paultag> mm.
[16:15] <mhall119> which, really, is as good as any economic model gets
[16:16] <paultag> well, I'm not super convinced economics are the right way to model foss
[16:16] <paultag> I don't think it's *wrong*
[16:16] <paultag> I just don't think it's right
[16:16] <mhall119> that's because you still see it as art
[16:17] <paultag> to some degree, yes, but I don't think that's how I'd classify programs
[16:17] <paultag> I think that code is like poetry, but that's a different issue :)
[16:18] <mhall119> art has totally different motivating factors than labor, which is why you don't see the economic influences
[16:19] <paultag> I see them, but I think they're emergent from the social constructs that we've put up
[16:19] <mhall119> but not everybody feels the same way as you, and even artists have to eat ;)
[16:19] <paultag> mhall119: no one's above dumpster diving ;)
[16:19] <Ddpbf> Hi all, i am memmber of serbian loco. I have one question regarding loco irc channels
[16:19] <paultag> Hi, Ddpbf!
[16:19] <Ddpbf> could we have more than 2 irc channels
[16:20] <paultag> sure! :) just try and keep them in your namespace :)
[16:20] <Ddpbf> thanks paul
[16:20] <paultag> so if I'm in #ubuntu-foo, try to put it in #ubuntu-foo-bar
[16:20] <Ddpbf> :)
[16:20] <paultag> sure thing!
[16:20] <Ddpbf> we need offtopic channel :D
[16:20] <paultag> sounds perfect :)
[16:20] <Ddpbf> cya all
[16:20] <paultag> o/
[16:20] <Ddpbf> \o
[16:21] <mhall119> heh
[16:21] <paultag> mhall119: I think we see f/oss (all too often) as exchanging goods & services (which I've been happy to use as an analogy, when I try to make it look like Communism, and it does), but I'm not sure that's right
[16:22] <paultag> which is why I am reluctant to make that case strongly in any sort of public way
[16:22] <paultag> it's more like evolution
[16:23] <paultag> someone who's totally effective in one thing may harm another, basically, people are bacteria
[16:23] <paultag> forks behave like evolving life-forms
[16:24] <paultag> the users are like the enviroment
[16:24] <paultag> and coders are tweeking dna ;)
[16:24] <mhall119> paultag: you can boil down capitalism, communism and gift-economies to the same basic forces of human nature
[16:24] <paultag> sure
[16:24] <paultag> which is why I think they emerge in a lot of ways
[16:24] <paultag> but I think in a lot of ways, an economic analyis focuses too much on the exchange of goods & services
[16:24] <mhall119> so, I've already determined that we don't work much like a capital market
[16:25] <mhall119> and we have some key differences from a gift-economy
[16:25] <paultag> granted
[16:25] <mhall119> your suggested readings on Marx are next on my list to investigate
[16:25] <paultag> I think theories of his apply very nicely to f/oss, yeah
[16:25] <mhall119> but I suspect that there will be some big differences from communism as well
[16:25] <paultag> there will be
[16:25] <paultag> in a lot of pretty glaring ways
[16:25] <paultag> namely, there's no scarcity
[16:25] <mhall119> but I'm slowing putting together a broader idea of how the f/loss economy operates
[16:26] <mhall119> as a hybrid of multiple kinds of systems
[16:26] <mhall119> there's always scarcity in something
[16:26] <paultag> I still think there's a way to look at this biologically
[16:26] <mhall119> write it up then
[16:26] <paultag> I need to think it out first ;)
[16:27] <mhall119> I'm not biologist, but you know where to find me if you want to bounce ideas around
[16:27] <paultag> totally, I'm not either, so I'm not sure how well this all applies either
[16:28] <paultag> I think the main reason people react to f/oss == communism is that people see darwinism in f/oss
[16:28] <paultag> (e.g. you loose all your money)
[16:29] <paultag> and what better place to model that then in a virtual landscape with all sorts of deformed monsters being made by 12-year-olds worldwide
[16:29] <paultag> and the big, bad well-designed t-rex eating everyone
[16:29]  * mhall119 doesn't follow
[16:29] <paultag> yeah, me neither
[16:29] <mhall119> heh
[16:29] <paultag> this is why I need to think it out
[16:30] <paultag> but I'm sure there's something there
[18:29] <daker> https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/1677527908/gnumad.png <- LoL
[18:58] <mhall119> daker: lol


[02:21] <aji_> HY
[03:34] <VinceN> Good Evening
[04:04] <VinceN> Good evening, I'm hoping someone can help me with what appears to be a very simple but maddening issue.  I am attempting to change my hostname.  I have done so and now am attempting to update the /etc/hosts file but none of the command line utiliities such as VI are working correctly and Pluma will not start in ADMIN mode.
[04:04] <VinceN> in VI keys just randomly stop responding or produce nonsensical output, (only in the VI program, works fine in other programs:)
[04:05] <VinceN> Puma displays a GTK error when starting under SUDO but NOT when starting in usermode.
[05:16] <he1kki> Hi. Looking solution for error "gtk-Message: Failed to load module "topmenu-gtk-module""
[05:21] <randall> https://goo.gl/woF7Ow
[05:30] <he1kki> randall: thanks
[05:33] <randall> yep
[05:37] <VinceN> Question
[05:37] <VinceN> Why does Firefox not render that menu?
[05:37] <VinceN> Referencing Randal and he1kki above.
[05:39] <randall> I dunno, I've never had he problem he1kki described
[05:39] <randall> I just did a quick google search
[07:07] <pompysyaiful> helloo all
[09:04] <SkyWay> guys, i'm very new on ubuntu mate + raspberry. i've used osmc, openelec, but now trying to change over to mate because the web browser. But still a major issue, no movie player...
[09:04] <SkyWay> has anyone installed kodi ?
[09:04] <SkyWay> how to ?
[09:18] <gordonjcp> SkyWay: well, Kodi runs on the raspberry pi...
[10:27] <Guest80447> hi, i am running ubuntu mate on a pi 3, with a monitor connected via a hdmi to vga adaptor. I am having trouble geting sound from the audio jack on the pi 3. Does anyone know how i can get the sound to work?
[11:54] <home> Hey, its ssh by default active on ubuntu mate? And can i first boot with ssh ohn raspberry?
[16:33] <ivansatriani> hi somebody speak spanish????
[16:34] <ouroumov> not me
[16:35] <ouroumov> ther's a spanish section on the forum
[16:35] <ivansatriani> someone can tell me if it is posible remove the icon plank?
[16:38] <jason_> Open up the tool Mate Tweak. Select "Interface". Change the panel layout to something you like better. That's the easy way.
[16:39] <ivansatriani> ok i dont want remove the plank dock, only try to remove the icon plank, its posible???
[16:42] <jason_> I am not sure I understand the difference between a "plank dock" and an "icon plank."
[16:44] <pilne> the plank icon on the plank dock?
[16:44] <pilne> i think you can right-click it or the dock for some config options
[16:46] <jason_> Ah, you said the "icon plank" the first time. Different connotation. You want to remove the "plank icon" from the "plank"?
[16:48] <ivansatriani> sorry my english its no very good,  yeah try  remove the icon plank from plank dock
[16:49] <jason_> That's okay. I don't know the answer, but hopefully someone will be able to answer that. I don't use the plank myself.
[16:54] <ivansatriani> ok anyway thank you so much
[16:54] <ivansatriani> have a good day
[19:09] <megamanx1978> I am trying to use the ubuntu 16.04 mate live dvd but when I boot the live dvd my tv shows a blank screen and says "unsupported mode"
[19:09] <megamanx1978> How do I fix that?
[19:10] <teward> use a real monitor instead of a TV.
[19:10] <teward> "Unsupported Mode" is the TV saying that what it's receiving is not compatible
[19:10] <teward> and usually you have to do standard setup *first*
[19:10] <teward> and get drivers and all
[19:10] <teward> then set up the external TV
[19:11] <megamanx1978> I only have a TV no Monitor
[19:13] <megamanx1978> Is ther any way to set live dvd boot options or setup my tv so my tv will work?
[19:20] <megamanx1978> Is ther any way to set live dvd boot options or setup my tv so my tv will work?
[22:21] <user2635> If I've just installed an application through the terminal, how long should it take to appear in the main MATE menu?
[22:22] <randall> instant
[22:26] <user2635> well I don't see it
[22:26] <user2635> will restarting mate-panel make a difference?
[22:26] <user2635> or do I have to log out and log in again
[22:35] <randall> no, if it's a gio app it'll just be there, if it's a cli app it won't
[22:35] <randall> gui app
[22:39] <user2635> randall, it is a gui app but its not there
[22:46] <randall> what's the app?
[22:48] <user2635> anki
[22:50] <randall> gimme a few minutes
[22:55] <randall> user2635, look under education
[23:06] <user2635> randall, I know why
[23:07] <user2635> the advanced menu doesn't have Education
[23:07] <randall> ahhh, that would explain it
[23:07] <user2635> maybe it should
[23:07] <user2635> I need to report it so they can make a decision
[23:08] <user2635> or maybe theres a way to add it but I don't know how
[23:08] <ouroumov> Search the forums? If you don't find anything create an issue on the MATE Menu bitbucket
[23:10] <user2635> I'm going to ask on askubuntu
[23:11] <user2635> in the meantime I can just create it as a custom item


[20:07] <fta> jdstrand, hi, i see you got a ftbfs on maverick/armel but without logs, difficult to say if it's the same reason as natty (pie) or something else