[12:49] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[15:46] <BluesKaj> BBL ...
[17:11]  * genii-around makes more coffee, hands out the mugs


[10:17] <vish> http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/folder_challenge_01.png !!!!!!!!
[10:17] <vish> considerably better than what breathe has right now ;p
[10:18] <thorwil> vish: you think so? both are terrible in my eyes now
[10:18] <vish> thorwil: well , i said better.. dint say it was good ;p
[10:19] <thorwil> folder icons are dumb anyway, would much prefer to have something along the lines of http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/infolders_01.png
[10:20] <vish> thorwil: hmm , not /like/ those , but i get the point..   make *folders* an abstract concept
[10:21] <vish> holy! there are 1050+ members subscribed to the mailing list!
[10:22] <darkmatter> just remove folders entirely instead of trying to abstract broken junk
[10:22] <vish> thorwil: looks like the list is quite rotten ;p
[10:23] <vish> we have a lot of flies \o/
[10:23] <thorwil> darkmatter: doesn't matter much for that concept if it represents folders are any kind of grouping
[10:24] <vish> hehe! what is lapo doing there !
[15:36] <thorwil> vish: what did you say how many subscribers the list has?
[15:43] <vish> thorwil: 1050+
[16:07] <thorwil> vish: i think we will reach the point where we must avoid running around in circles, soon now
[16:08] <thorwil> vish: so i just send a "what would you like to work on" mail. trying saleel's idea is better than wondering if it would work ... :)
[16:10] <vish> thorwil: well.. lets see.. how it goes..
[17:19] <vish> hmm , are we thrusting too much at the same time!
[17:21] <vish> doctormo: why are you reluctant to make the dA group part of the artwork team?
[17:21] <vish> doctormo: you did push for having free culture showcase being merged into the dA group right?
[17:22] <doctormo> Of course
[17:22] <doctormo> But we haven't talked much about the dA group and how its run. Only about using deviantArt as a technical base.
[17:22] <vish> doctormo: ah the technicalities k..
[17:23] <doctormo> I have no problem with the dA group being linked in as part of the greater art team, but dA is a poor collaboration platform IMO.
[17:23] <vish> doctormo: yeah , but how do we get the cchost site to be more permanant?
[17:24] <vish> i can get coders to work on setting up a site though.. we need the server :)
[17:32] <doctormo> vish: It has a server, unless pleia2 objects but I don't think she will.
[17:32] <doctormo> vish: I'm actually sorting out the codebase now so people can work on fixes for the cchost site.
[17:41] <thorwil> if i only knew how to discourage those useless single sentence messages (without that tuning into a meta-discussion, again)
[17:41] <thorwil> well, at least there's enthusiasm :)
[17:41] <vish> hehe!
[17:42] <vish> one thing I'm not very crazy about it the art-*owl* name..
[17:42] <vish> it doesnt sound very official ;)
[17:42] <thorwil> currently it isn't
[17:43] <thorwil> but something non-obvious can add some charm, in any case
[17:45] <doctormo> vish: The owl site is the place for learning materials, the dns can be changed.
[17:45] <doctormo> vish:  for the art site
[17:46] <doctormo> vish: I'd like to see more activity and maybe some fixes though, much more important than dns name.
[17:46] <vish> yep, very true.
[17:46] <vish> but i'm just concerned a bit now , since we are just jumping with _no_ organization in place :s
[17:48] <vish> but lets see at the end of the week how things are.. we are only at day 2 ;)
[17:48] <thorwil> vish: sure, but you can't have it all at once. i mean, both activity and organization? outrageous!
[17:49] <thorwil> i guess a hold-your-horses message might do more harm than good
[17:49] <vish> yea.. i dint mean hold your horses..
[17:49] <vish> but if there is no organization , we might just fizz out..
[17:50] <vish> so, i think someone needs to keep that in mind as well
[17:52] <thorwil> vish: i'm not at all willing to play a team leader solo ...
[17:53] <vish> thorwil: well , who crowned you king of the jungle ?   ;p
[17:53] <vish> thorwil: its nice to see that people are trying to be pro-active atleast :)
[17:54] <thorwil> vish: nobody did. but who keeps referencing me and who used to ask me for feedback many times? ;)
[17:54] <thorwil> vish: and "someone" is a warning sign, if it appears in talk regarding leadership and responsibility ;)
[17:54] <vish> thorwil: must be an idiot! why would someone ask *you* for feedback! ;)
[17:54] <thorwil> lol, yeah
[17:57]  * thorwil -> dinner
[18:22] <doctormo> vish: It's not no organisation, it's emergent and it's simple, but it's not missing.
[18:22] <vish> yea.. i think I'm going to go ahead and add Xubuntu and Edubuntu to the main wiki
[18:23] <doctormo> thorwil: heh, we could have an art-council quango
[18:23] <vish> spoke to highvoltage too , he wants help with edubuntu as well
[18:38] <thorwil> back
[18:53] <vish> thorwil: lol! a few members unsubscribed since yesterday ;p
[18:54] <thorwil> *shrug*
[18:56] <vish> when i saw it first it was 1058 , now its 1054
[19:07] <thorwil> 3 down from what i saw
[19:19] <vish> thorwil: maybe setting up a short wiki of why using wiki is bad? :p
[19:20] <thorwil> heh
[19:20] <vish> rather than having to explain to everyone every time.. would be much easier?
[19:22] <thorwil> vish: we have to forgive j_baer, for he must have edited the wiki so much, he doesn't realize how hard it is, anymore ;)
[19:22] <vish> thorwil: lol! i must have mentioned that too! "a huge problem is trivial edits" ;p
[19:22] <thorwil> vish: i just send a mail also linking to that design-hub post, before i got yours ...
[19:23] <vish> haha! thorwil must be silly minds think alike too! ;p
[19:23] <thorwil> heh
[19:24] <thorwil> vish: now how to best answer Kofi?
[19:24] <vish> thorwil: i suggest we wait a bit and see all the fishes that bite :)
[19:25] <vish> its not that if we have to answer within a couple of days and everything gets done..
[19:26] <vish> right now , i'm mainly counting how many people even raise their hands :)
[19:30] <thorwil> hmm, right
[19:33] <thorwil> maybe i should check that out, sometime: http://github.com/rclements/Fedora-Design-Collab
[19:34] <vish> Kofi done has quite some interesting work
[19:45] <thorwil> mailed highvoltage, encouraging him to advertise for edubuntu a bit, maybe come up with a briefing for a wallpaper
[19:47] <rrrmanion> hello
[19:50] <vish> rrrmanion: hi
[19:51] <rrrmanion> i want to know how i can apply to contribute towards ubuntu? i want to be involved in the reation of some wallpapers.
[19:52] <vish> rrrmanion: sure, any particular derivate in mind? xubuntu or edubuntu?
[19:53] <rrrmanion> no, i am just happy to help
[19:54] <vish> rrrmanion: awesome! hang tight , we are just beginning to see some voices
[19:55] <vish> rrrmanion: in a few days lets get the main teams involved too , and have a theme/direction to work on for the wallppaer
[19:57] <vish> rrrmanion: did you see the meerkat request on the mailing list?
[19:58] <rrrmanion> no, only just subscribed,
[19:59] <vish> rrrmanion: ah , no probs. this is the mail I was referring to: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2010-September/012294.html
[20:01] <rrrmanion> i mainly wish to base my contributions on photos if that's ok?
[20:02] <vish> rrrmanion: well , are the photos from your collection?
[20:02] <thorwil> rrrmanion: sure (as long as it are your photos, or ones with permissive licenses)
[20:03] <thorwil> rrrmanion: do you know about http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ ?
[20:05] <thorwil> rrrmanion: for each release cycle, a few images from that pool are selected, like it happened here: http://design.canonical.com/2010/08/this-week-in-design-27-august-2010/
[20:05] <rrrmanion> no, not aware of that, will take a look in a moment, will take a look in a moment, all the photos i'd like to use are my own
[20:06] <thorwil> though this flickr thing is pretty much independent of what we are trying to organize on the list, currently
[20:10] <rrrmanion> ok, that sounds good though, i thought i might do a series of photos from the UK, for uk users, obviously all landscapes, what do you think
[20:12] <vish> rrrmanion: of specific famous buildings? or something more abstract?
[20:12] <vish> or places
[20:13] <rrrmanion> places, for example i already have some of the famous white cliffs of dover, but buidings could be done too
[20:14] <thorwil> rrrmanion: do/try whatever seems fun and worthwhile. though if you specifically have users from the uk in mind, you should perhaps contact LoCos ...  i mean, don't rely on people finding your work in that huge pool ... unless it will be outstanding ;)
[20:16] <rrrmanion> "LoCos"?
[20:16] <vish> rrrmanion: the issue with choosing a popular place would mean very specific to that locale.. so something like that would/might be more appropriate for the local UK team posters
[20:16] <thorwil> rrrmanion: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
[20:20] <rrrmanion> thanks
[20:21] <thorwil> np
[20:25] <rrrmanion> just waiting for a reply now, seems a bit slower for responses than this channel.
[20:27] <thorwil> rrrmanion: response time can easily vary between seconds and hours in one and the same channel
[21:09] <thorwil> good night!
[23:00] <rrrmanion> night people


[01:30] <ubotu> New bug: #147892 in malone "Broken links in CVE pages (to bug's c-a-p / distrotask pages)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147892
[01:56] <ubotu> New bug: #147898 in launchpad "Import release information from freshmeat" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147898
[03:06] <mpt> Hobbsee, to continue our discussion from yesterday, can you give an example of a team page where you expect to see the team's contact e-mail address but don't?
[03:07] <Hobbsee> mpt: http://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers
[03:07] <Hobbsee> mpt: but that may be because they dont have a team contact address
[03:08] <jamesh> not all teams have contact emails ...
[03:08] <mpt> Hobbsee, probably
[03:08] <mpt> Can you see the e-mail address on <http://launchpad.net/~launchpad>?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> jamesh: indeed.  i was trying to figure yesterday if it didnt show, because they didnt have a team contact email, or if LP had decided to remove it from everywhere, for some unknown reason
[03:09] <Hobbsee> jamesh: i came to the conclusion that the former was true
[03:09] <jamesh> Hobbsee: I guess this is one of the problems with omitting empty portlets
[03:09] <Hobbsee> mpt: yep
[03:10] <jamesh> although things would look very crowded if we displayed all possible portlets everywhere
[03:10] <Hobbsee> mpt: for some reason, i couldnt find a team that actually *had* a contact email, to check with
[03:10] <Hobbsee> jamesh: indeed.  i think you're usually fine, as most people dont expect you to remove features at random
[03:10] <Hobbsee> but i have recently seen that bug portal go missing for some unknown reason, so... :)

[03:11] <jamesh> I am sure we'd have a good reason for removing a feature you find useful :)
[03:11] <mpt> Probably the e-mail address should go in the contact details table
[03:12] <mpt> except that teams don't have one of those, hmm
[03:12] <Hobbsee> jamesh: havent found otu what it is yet :)
[03:12] <Hobbsee> mpt: i dont think people will look for it, to be honest.
[03:12] <Hobbsee> it was only that i was looking to blackhole a team, so wsa looking for other teams as an eg
[03:12] <mpt> blackhole a team?
[03:12] <jamesh> probably not worth working on this til Barry's work is done
[03:13] <Hobbsee> mpt: sorry, blackhole the address for a team.
[03:13] <Hobbsee> not blackhole the entire team :)
[03:19] <Hobbsee> mpt: (so that when the next nutter decides to assign a bug to kubuntu-members, not everyone gets spammed)
[03:20] <Hobbsee> ubuntu-core-dev is also a good one for that.
[04:00] <pwnguin> if update manager doesn't display changelogs to a ppa, is that a bug in the ppa system or in update manager?
[04:01] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: it's a bigger bug than that.  it'll be a bug in both libept and ppa.  but ppa first.
[04:02] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: as in, it may well be by design
[04:02] <Hobbsee> well, eventually by design
[04:02] <pwnguin> by design as in "not a bug" or as in "we'd have to redesign to fix it"?
[04:03] <Hobbsee> the latter.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> well, it begs teh question - do we only want to show the changelogs from ubuntu?
[04:04] <Hobbsee> does everyone *want* their changelogs plastered on something like changelogs.ubuntu.com?
[04:04] <lifeless> wherelse would a changelog come from ?
[04:04] <lifeless> oh, meh, missed a word
[04:04] <Hobbsee> what happens if two people upload the same package, with different changelogs?
[04:04] <lifeless> its a design bug
[04:04] <Hobbsee> lifeless: :)
[04:04] <lifeless> changelogs are centralised
[04:05] <pwnguin> so bassically, changelogs aren't in the repos
[04:05] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: correct.
[04:05] <pwnguin> unfortunate
[04:05] <lifeless> not an lp design bug, ubuntu design bug
[04:05] <lifeless> if that gets addressed, with a hint from package metadata in the packages list
[04:05] <Hobbsee> lifeless: debian design bug, you mean.
[04:05] <pwnguin> I wonder if wig and pen addresses that
[04:06] <lifeless> Hobbsee: we haven't fixed it, so its an ubuntu bug :)
[04:06] <lifeless> w&p is orthogonal
[04:06] <Hobbsee> lifeless: seeing as debian does the same, afaik...
[04:06] <Hobbsee> lifeless: oh right.  i meant introduced from debian.
[04:06] <lifeless> this is fixable by adding a field
[08:00] <spiv> lifeless: I'll start the meeting
[08:01] <spiv> BjornT, thumper, jamesh, jtv: reviewer's meeting time.
[08:01] <thumper> here
[08:01] <BjornT> here
[08:01] <thumper> spiv: and jml?
[08:01] <jamesh> here
[08:01] <spiv> jml phoned with apologies.
[08:01] <thumper> ok
[08:01] <jtv> here
[08:01] <spiv> Apparently the building he was working in is surrounded by fire trucks and is "a little bit on fire".
[08:02] <jtv> And that stops him?
[08:02] <thumper> he had wireless didn't he?
[08:02] <spiv> = Agenda =
[08:02] <spiv>   * Roll call
[08:02] <spiv>   * Next meeting
[08:02] <spiv>   * Action items
[08:02] <spiv>   * Queue status
[08:02] <spiv>   * Mentoring update
[08:03] <spiv> = Roll call =
[08:03] <Hobbsee> meh.  whoever let a bit of fire interrupt with meetings!
[08:03] <spiv> We've basically done that :)
[08:03] <spiv> I'm sure jml will share the gory details when he gets back online.
[08:03] <spiv> = Next meeting =
[08:04] <thumper> AU goes into summertime on Sun
[08:04] <thumper> NZ is there now
[08:04] <spiv> Next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel?
[08:04] <spiv> Ah, good point.
[08:04] <jtv> That's same UTC bat-time, I take it?
[08:04] <thumper> shift it by an hour?
[08:04] <spiv> +/- an hour doesn't bother me at all.
[08:04] <spiv> As it's still inside my normal workday.
[08:04] <thumper> it's7pm NZ time
[08:04] <thumper> which hits kids bed time
[08:05] <thumper> how does it impact you BjornT to be an hour earlier?
[08:05] <BjornT> for me, the same UTC time will already be at 8am, so i'd rather not having it earlier
[08:05] <thumper> keep it 0600UTC for now then
[08:06] <thumper> and I'll bitch if it becomes a problem
[08:06] <jamesh> I don't mind either way
[08:06] <spiv> thumper: sounds like a plan!
[08:06] <spiv> So, same time next week.
[08:07] <spiv> = Action items =
[08:07] <spiv> I failed to get the minutes from the last meeting sent out.
[08:07] <spiv> Let me check the log quickly to see if there were any action items
[08:08] <spiv> Nothing that I can see.
[08:08] <spiv> = Queue status =
[08:08] <lifeless> I'm +1 on shifting it
[08:09] <lifeless> (most back, but I may disappear violently)
[08:09] <spiv> Long, and lots overdue.
[08:09] <spiv> I just did my overdue review just before the meeting, but there's 14 others.
[08:09] <thumper> the oldest is actually needs-reply
[08:10] <thumper> but jamesh hasn't updated it
[08:10] <spiv> Ah, that's good news.
[08:10] <spiv> So, just 13 then ;)
[08:11] <spiv> We seem to almost always have a lot of branches overdue for reviews.
[08:11] <spiv> I'm not sure what the cause is, or how to fix it, but that seems like a serious problem to me.
[08:11] <thumper> spiv: start a penalty jar
[08:11] <thumper> $1 per day per review
[08:11] <thumper> and use it to buy drinks at sprints
[08:12] <spiv> I was going to suggest donating it to a charity for helping chronic procrastinators ;)
[08:13] <thumper> I was going to do mine today, honest
[08:13] <spiv> It seems to be mostly non-.au reviewers that are slacking right at the moment.
[08:14] <spiv> Or at least, reviewers that aren't present at this meeting.
[08:14] <lifeless> yay fingerpointing
[08:14] <lifeless> :)
[08:14] <spiv> Yeah.
[08:15] <spiv> Well, normally we nag tardy reviewers at these meetings with moderate success.  We can't do that if they aren't here :)
[08:15] <spiv> I'll send an email nag to the list.
[08:15] <spiv> = Mentoring update =
[08:16] <spiv> Any news from mentors or mentees?
[08:16] <spiv> I haven't had anything to mentor recently, but jml has a couple of overdue branches so presumably that will change shortly...
[08:17] <jtv> Is there an official "needs mentoring" state for branches?
[08:17] <jamesh> I've got to followup on jtv's reviews (I haven't been particularly good on that)
[08:17] <spiv> Heh.
[08:18] <spiv> That could be useful.
[08:18] <spiv> Although merge-conditional could serve that role.
[08:18] <jtv> It'd help a lot, I think, if "needs mentoring" showed up separately on the status overview page.
[08:18] <jtv> spiv: I beg to differ
[08:18] <jtv> merge-conditional means approval is conditional only on things the coder has to do
[08:19] <jamesh> spiv: well, merge-conditional's current meaning is that the developer can merge without any further permission from reviewers
[08:19] <spiv> Right, and the coder needs to wait for the mentor's review ;0
[08:19] <spiv> Anyway, I agree, it's a very poor substitute.
[08:20] <jtv> So, new state needs-mentoring?
[08:21] <spiv> I don't mind if we add a new state for that, although I don't have to implement it :)
[08:21] <spiv> Perhaps we should propose it for the .eu meeting?
[08:21] <spiv> Assuming we're all in favour, which we seem to be.
[08:21] <thumper> +1
[08:21] <lifeless> +1
[08:22] <jamesh> sure.
[08:22] <BjornT> +1
[08:22] <spiv> Ok, I'll put it on the wiki page.
[08:22] <spiv> = Any other business? =
[08:23] <spiv> tick tick tick...
[08:23] <spiv> 5
[08:23] <spiv> 4
[08:23] <spiv> 3
[08:23] <spiv> 2
[08:23] <spiv> 1
[08:23] <spiv> MEETING ENDS
[08:23] <spiv> Thanks everyone.
[08:23] <thumper> yay, dinner
[09:04] <carlos> morning
[09:49] <_polto_> hello all
[09:50] <_polto_>  i'm trying to upload a modified version of mplayer, but it lack all dependencies... how can i include dependencies to compile on PPA ?
[09:59] <stdin> _polto_: what do you mean? you need to specify all the build dependencies in the debian/control file
[10:00] <_polto_> stdin, i apt-get source mplayer, applied a patch and uploaded the sources
[10:00] <_polto_> debian/control did not changed :)
[10:01] <_polto_> (I'm new to PPA)
[10:01] <_polto_> never used before.
[10:01] <stdin> got the link build log?
[10:02] <_polto_> https://edge.launchpad.net/~polto/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
[10:03] <_polto_> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9631434/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.mplayer_2%3A1.0%7Eppa3_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
[10:05] <stdin> _polto_: seems (for some reason) it's been uploaded to the "main" section, it needs to be in multiverse, make sure in debian/control it has "Section: multiverse/graphics"
[10:05] <_polto_> oups !
[10:05] <_polto_> :)
[10:05] <_polto_> thanks!
[10:05] <_polto_> stupid error .. :)
[10:06] <stdin> you aren't be the first to do that (and won't be the last) :)
[10:08] <_polto_> :)
[10:11] <_polto_> stdin, should i only switch from graphics to multiverse/graphics in debian/control? what's all ?
[10:11] <stdin> that's the only place it's set, so yeah
[10:13] <_polto_> :)
[10:13] <_polto_> thanks
[10:38] <geser> _polto_: don't forget to bump the version else the upload will get rejected
[10:39] <_polto_> i did :) thanks
[11:26] <ubotu> New bug: #148011 in launchpad-bazaar "doesn't propagate changed tags to http?" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148011
[02:41] <ubotu> New bug: #148082 in launchpad "A lot of bogus 'ubuntu' projects registered" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148082
[02:46] <ubotu> New bug: #148087 in launchpad-bazaar ""bzr break-lock bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/..." fails to break a lock" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148087
[02:49] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[03:07] <Kopfgeldjaeger> i submitted a package to PPA yesterday, and it was accepted. its sources are already in ppa, but nothing is built yet
[03:29] <Kopfgeldjaeger> cant PPA use multiverse?
[03:30] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ah, ok, i see
[03:53] <Kopfgeldjaeger> um... launchpad ppa rejection mail: "If you don't understand why your files were rejected, or if the override file requires editing, reply to this email." and in the mail header: "Replay-To<EMAIL_ADDRESS>:d
[04:42] <sabdfl> cprov: ^^ I think that should be "Reply-To" ;-)
[04:42] <sabdfl> err
[04:43] <sabdfl> i think that whole thing should be better ;-)
[04:43] <cprov> sabdfl: ouch ...
[04:44] <bigjools> coulda sworn I fixed all that!
[04:48] <bigjools> cprov: it does not say that for a PPA rejection any more
[04:49] <bigjools> cprov: see ppa-upload-rejection.txt
[04:49] <cprov> bigjools: yes, it seems to be fixed in RF. Do you remember which revision it was done ?
[04:50] <bigjools> no, but it was released in 1.1.9
[04:52] <cprov> Kopfgeldjaeger:  are you sure you received it recently ?
[05:18] <Kopfgeldjaeger> cprov: some minutes ago
[05:19] <cprov> Kopfgeldjaeger: let me check
[05:19] <Kopfgeldjaeger> shall i make a screenshot?
[05:20] <bigjools> Kopfgeldjaeger: what is the rejection reason in the email?
[05:20] <Kopfgeldjaeger> unable to find distroseries: hardy ;)
[05:20] <bigjools> kwality :)
[05:20] <Kopfgeldjaeger> and... "Unhandled exception processing upload: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getPublishedReleases'". but i dont know if it has to do with hardy
[05:21] <bigjools> yes that extra message is a bug that is being fixed right now
[05:21] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ok. http://img9.myimg.de/replyToNoReplye3f6f.png ("Antwort an" ^= "Reply to"
[05:23] <Kopfgeldjaeger> do i have to specify "Component: multiverse" in debian/control to get sth. into a multiverse-ppa?
[05:24] <bigjools> cprov: if it can't determine it's really a PPA upload yet, it will send a "normal" upload email
[05:26] <cprov> bigjools: I'm not sure what is happening, I just got a rejection that says "If you don't understand why your files were rejected please send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for help."
[05:26] <bigjools> cprov: I wonder if he uploaded to a non ~user dir?
[05:26] <Kopfgeldjaeger> i did.
[05:27] <bigjools> Kopfgeldjaeger: you uploaded to ~you ?
[05:27] <Kopfgeldjaeger> bigjools:
[05:27] <Kopfgeldjaeger> incoming = ~nicolai-spohrer/ubuntu
[05:27] <bigjools> ok
[05:29] <superm1> cprov, is there a particular reason that amd64 builds on the PPAs are queuing up about 10-40 times faster than i386 builds?
[05:30] <cprov> superm1: don't you mean "building" faster ?
[05:30] <superm1> cprov, no literally i queue up a source package, and it gets onto the amd64 builder (promethium) within 30 minutes
[05:31] <superm1> its been taking a few hours for it to hit i386 builders
[05:33] <cprov> superm1: ok, let's use better concepts, 1 queued (when soyuz recognize there is something to build, NEEDSBUILD build record), 2. dispatched (when a queued build records reaches a builder) and 3 built (when a builder delivers the binary packages for a given build record).
[05:33] <cprov> superm1: and you meant, amd64 dispatches 10-40 times faster than i386, right ?
[05:33] <superm1> okay using those terms, its been appearing that they are being dispatched later to i386
[05:33] <superm1> yeah
[05:33] <superm1> perhaps did i386's builder go down and now its just behind amd64?
[05:34] <cprov> superm1: that because amd64 queue is 10-40 times smaller than i386 (arch-indep)
[05:34] <superm1> ah
[05:34] <superm1> that would be it
[05:34] <superm1> wouldn't it make sense to spread arch-indep stuff among the two then rather than all of that go to i386?
[05:36] <iwj> BjornT: I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at bug 147754 and let me know what you think.  Scott suggested I ask you :-).  Thanks.
[05:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 147754 in malone "searching including duplicates uses wrong status" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147754
[05:37] <cprov> superm1: lp-buildd is not able to build arch-indep in other archs than i386, yet.
[05:37] <superm1> ah i see
[05:37] <superm1> thanks cprov, makes much more sense :)
[05:38] <cprov> superm1: you're welcome (this discussion could be one item of our FAQ)
[05:46] <BjornT> iwj: i agree that bug 147754 should be fixed; it's basically that we don't handle duplicates as good as we should. i don't know when we will have time to fix it, though.
[05:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 147754 in malone "searching including duplicates uses wrong status" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147754
[05:57] <iwj> BjornT: Can you have it fixed in 1.1.10 ?  Without this fix my workflow for autopkgtest is going to get worse and worse.
[05:57] <iwj> Also it means that autopkgtest will sometimes fail to test a package when it should.
[06:01] <gmb> WTF? Amarok has gone insane. No matter what I put in the playlist it won't stop playing LugRadio!
[06:01] <gmb> I'm being haunted by Jono Bacon.
[06:03] <BjornT> iwj: sorry, it won't be possible to fix it for 1.1.10, it's a bit too late for that, especially since i suspect the fix will require changes to the db schema.
[06:04] <BjornT> iwj: can you explain your workflow for autopkgtest? maybe there's some workaround
[06:07] <iwj> BjornT: I look at the list of bugs which it has filed, because that's a worklist of packages that need fixing.  I want to include duplicates because autopkgtest bugs are often duplicates of other bugs.
[06:07] <iwj> (or vice versa)
[06:07] <iwj> Obviously I don't want to include closed bugs.
[06:09] <Kopfgeldjaeger> how to get a package into MULTIVERSE in ppa? i tried "Section: multiverse/blub (or just multiverse)" or "Component: multiverse", but it always goes into main
[06:09] <iwj> BjornT: Likewise autopkgtest uses the same list to construct a set of packages which (a) should be de-preferred when choosing the next package to test and (b) to avoid filing duplicates of bugs it has filed already.
[06:10] <iwj> BjornT: As I mentioned on lp-users, I'm screenscraping for this information.  IWBNI there were a better way.
[06:15] <stdin> Kopfgeldjaeger: "Section: multiverse/whatever" works
[06:15] <Kopfgeldjaeger> stdin: what can whatever be?
[06:16] <stdin> umm, lets see if I can find a link...
[06:16] <stdin> I know there kde, gnome, x11, base, libs, devel and libdevel
[06:17] <pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: restricted and multiverse are not allowed, afaik
[06:17] <pochu> So, you can't.
[06:17] <Kopfgeldjaeger> :/, that is _not_ good for me :( avidemux depends on liblame, for example...
[06:18] <stdin> it is allowed as long as the package you're distributing is under a free licence
[06:18] <stdin> (or so I understand)
[06:19] <Kopfgeldjaeger> it's gpl
[06:19] <BjornT> iwj: hmm. i can't think of a simple fix that would help you. the earliest we could fix this would be 1.1.12, since 1.1.10 is already too full, and 1.1.11 will be a short cycle.
[06:20] <iwj> BjornT: Surely the simple fix is to, when searching, use the status of the duplicate target for duplicate bugs to match against the search criteria, rather than the status of the duplicate itself ?
[06:20] <iwj> Is that difficult ?
[06:20] <stdin> Kopfgeldjaeger: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control has a couple other sections too. for most GUI apps x11 is OK, there's also multimedia  (guessing from your dependencies that'll be a good fit)
[06:20] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ill try, thanks
[06:21] <stdin> Kopfgeldjaeger: #ubuntu-motu is a great place to ask about some generic debian packaging stuff if you need help (and we all do ;)
[06:21] <Kopfgeldjaeger> stdin: /whois Kopfgeldjaeger ;)
[06:21] <stdin> so I don't whois everyone I see  :p
[06:22] <Kopfgeldjaeger> stdin: but i thought it would be the wrong place for launchpad specific questions
[06:22] <laga> pochu: do you know where it is said that multiverse is not allowed?
[06:22] <stdin> Kopfgeldjaeger: it is, that's why I said for "generic debian packaging" questions
[06:23] <elmo> laga: https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse
[06:23] <BjornT> iwj: i don't even want to think about how that sql query would look like ;) well, i could take a quick look at it tomorrow, to see if can get something to work, that would solve your use case, and wouldn't cause any timeouts.
[06:23] <iwj> Thanks.
[06:25] <iwj> BjornT: Alternatively, since the interface between the autopkgtest machinery and the screenscraper is tiny, perhaps someone with database read access could run a suitable query out of cron for me.
[06:25] <stdin> but an app can be open-source (GPL for instance) but build-dep on a package in multiverse, so that doesn't forbid multiverse. just packages that aren't under a free license
[06:26] <laga> elmo: doesn't mention multiverse there
[06:26] <Odd_Bloke> stdin: If something build-deps on something in multiverse, it has to be in multiverse.
[06:26] <elmo> laga: err
[06:26] <stdin> Odd_Bloke: that's my point
[06:28] <Odd_Bloke> stdin: Are you saying that PPAs should be able to build multiverse packages?
[06:28] <laga> well, PPAs can already build multiverse packages. however, i was just told here that i'm not allowed to do that.
[06:29] <stdin> I'm saying that PPAs TOS doesn't forbid multiverse, as long as the package itself is under an open license
[06:29] <stdin> (or i'm saying that's how I understand it)
[06:32] <pochu> laga: from https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart : 'if your package is targeted to main your dependencies will be satisfied from main, whereas if your package is targeted to universe your dependencies will be satisfied from main and universe.'
[06:32] <pochu> laga: it doesn't say you cant upload build against multiverse, but it doesn't say you can either.
[06:32] <BjornT> iwj: yes, that might be possible. kiko would probably be a good person to talk about that.
[06:32] <Kopfgeldjaeger> stdin:      -> Component: main Section: graphics again... in my control file, there is: "Section: multiverse/multimedia"
[06:32] <kiko> mmmm
[06:33] <laga> pochu: os there's n o definite answer, but it looks like liblame etc is OK.
[06:33] <kiko> iwj, BjornT: what does the script need to do?
[06:33] <Kopfgeldjaeger> stdin: um... does "Section" have to be in the source package section?
[06:34] <stdin> Kopfgeldjaeger: as far as I know, -motu is a better place to ask to get a definite answer
[06:35] <pochu> laga: maybe cprov-lunch or Rinchen know.
[06:36] <pochu> cprov-lunch, Rinchen: ^ do you know whether it's possible to upload a package which has build-dependencies on multiverse? (the package itself is redistributable, under a GPL license).
[06:36] <Rinchen> cprov-lunch would be best for that (or kiko).  My knowledge is limited to the qsg on this unfortunately.
[06:37] <iwj> kiko: find all bugs filed by autopkgtest which are still open, and produce a list of (source package name, bug number).  Where `open' means in one of the usual open states _but_ if the bug is a duplicate, if the duplicate target is open.
[06:37] <kiko> iwj, did bdmurray get his DB access?
[06:38] <iwj> Err, I don't know.  I haven't spoken to bdmurray about this AFAIR.
[06:39] <kiko> iwj, talk to him first; I requested access and he might be able to help you first
[06:45] <cprov> pochu: according to the ogre-model, packaging in multiverse can build-dep on main + restricted + universe + multiverse. So, yes, upload it to the multiverse component.
[06:46] <iwj> kiko: Apparently he hasn't yet.
[06:46] <laga> cprov: will that comply with the ToS? eg if a package depends on liblame0?
[06:48] <kiko> iwj, unfortunate. let's try and make that happen
[06:49] <cprov> laga: IMHO, yes, you can link with liblame0 in ppa.  But I might be wrong :(
[06:49] <iwj> kiko: Thanks.
[06:51] <laga> cprov: thanks :)
[07:01] <Kopfgeldjaeger> stdin: working now... Section has to be in the source section
[07:02] <stdin> good :)
[07:35] <giga> Hi All
[07:35] <giga> Thanks from Georgia for your perfect Distro
[07:55] <ubotu> New bug: #148195 in soyuz "Sanitize Build sampledata" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148195
[08:09] <Kopfgeldjaeger> what does "failed to upload" mean in PPA? https://edge.launchpad.net/~nicolai-spohrer/+archive/+build/401486
[08:17] <kiko> Kopfgeldjaeger, you get email about it, but it normally means that the control file in your generated binaries has an inconsistency.
[08:31] <ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: The one time it happened to me (on a real upload, not to a PPA), it was a Soyuz bug and had to be manually fixed, but the next upload of the same package with only very minor modifications went through fine.
[08:31] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
[08:33] <Kopfgeldjaeger> Verifying timestamps in avidemux-foobar_amd64.deb \n No signer, therefore ACL not processed (...) \n Upload was rejected
[08:34] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ah, ok. i see the error
[08:35] <Kopfgeldjaeger> control file failure
[08:35] <Kopfgeldjaeger> is there a list of possible multiverse/(.*) sections?
[08:39] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/ should do it
[09:11] <ubotu> New bug: #148226 in launchpad-bazaar "the branch listing should be sortable and searchable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148226
[09:26] <kiko> mwh, ddaa: I'm getting a bzr error when pushing to the supermirror.
[09:26] <kiko> AssertionError: end of file reading from server.
[09:26] <kiko> oh, permission denied.
[09:26] <ddaa> my first impulse would be to blame bzr
[09:26] <mwh> sounds like you're not ssh keyed up
[09:27] <kiko> yep
[09:27] <kiko> what a horrible error message!
[09:36] <jerenkrantz> hola.  any launchpad members around?  apache's subversion server is being hammered by launchpad (for qpid) - https://launchpad.net/qpid
[09:37] <mwh> ah
[09:37] <mwh> yes
[09:38] <jerenkrantz> (i'm not familiar enough with how launchpad operates.)
[09:39] <jerenkrantz> it's just that canonical is toping our abusers list.  =(
[09:39] <jerenkrantz> our next step is to add an ip block...
[09:40] <mwh> jerenkrantz: it's importing qpid into a bazaar branch
[09:40] <mwh> jerenkrantz: i can kill the job if that would be preferable
[09:40] <ddaa> sorry about the abuse, we know that our svn code is very inefficient
[09:40] <jerenkrantz> how is it doing the import?
[09:41] <jerenkrantz> (we're not opposed to doing ya'll doing imports, but it's getting absurd.)
[09:42] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: I believe the problem you are referring to is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs/+bug/120992
[09:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120992 in launchpad-cscvs "use persistent svn_ra sessions and reconnect on failure" [High,Confirmed]
[09:43] <ddaa> our svn import code uses the pysvn library (instead of upstream libsvn bindings) so we use a new svn session for every single operation
[09:43] <jerenkrantz> sounds about right.
[09:43] <ddaa> such as directory listing, or cat
[09:43] <jerenkrantz> anyway to throttle it back?
[09:43] <ddaa> not really
[09:43] <ddaa> but if you can be bothered to give us svn dumps now and then
[09:44] <jerenkrantz> just gonna say
[09:44] <ddaa> we can do the initial imports from the dump
[09:44] <jerenkrantz> what can we give you to make you go away?  =)
[09:45] <ddaa> a svn dump of http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf
[09:45] <jerenkrantz> like 30GB.  =P
[09:45] <ddaa> we need the whole dump so the revision numbers are correct :/
[09:46] <ddaa> bandwidth is not an issue for us
[09:46] <jerenkrantz> i can dump a partial path and include blanks for non-qpid paths
[09:46] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: that might just do it
[09:47] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: we'll probably need to contact you again in the future though
[09:47] <jerenkrantz> ok.  need any other projects besides qpid?
[09:47] <jerenkrantz> sure.  when you need apache projects, email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:48] <jerenkrantz> (it'll take me a few days to find the cycles to do the dump/filter, but if you can cancel the imports until then...=P)
[09:49] <ddaa> mwh: I'll kill it
[09:50] <ubotu> New bug: #148240 in launchpad "file new (Report a) bug for Ubuntu ambiguous error message with package name" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148240
[09:50] <mwh> ddaa: thanks
[09:50] <Kopfgeldjaeger> my first ppa-package was just built successfully :D
[09:51] <izm99> how should I suggest a bug be closed?  I reported it, but I don't see the option anywhere...
[09:52] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: the job has been killed
[09:52] <joes2> ddaa: thx
[09:52] <jerenkrantz> ddaa: thx.
[09:52] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: BTW, congratz for your network monitoring
[09:52] <jerenkrantz> ddaa: when i get the dump, how do you want me to get it to you?
[09:52] <jerenkrantz> ddaa: thx joes2.  =)
[09:52] <ddaa> we've never had someone complain so quickly
[09:52] <jerenkrantz> just find you here on irc?
[09:53] <jerenkrantz> fwiw, apache.org has some serial abusers, so we have scripts to monitor it
[09:54] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: upload the dump to some public webspace and send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:54] <jerenkrantz> will do.
[09:55] <ddaa> btw, do not forget to bzip it
[09:55] <carlos> good night!
[09:55] <jerenkrantz> heh.  =)
[09:55] <ddaa> svn dump format is incredibly verbose...
[09:55] <jerenkrantz> if you use --deltas in the dump, it's actually pretty compressed
[09:55] <jerenkrantz> but that's not the default
[09:56] <jerenkrantz> (fwiw, i'm a core svn dev.  =P)
[09:57] <ddaa> mwh: can you think a good place to record that we should ask<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get dumps for imports from apache.org?
[09:57] <ddaa> mostly, I want to record the email address somewhere where we'll find it easily
[09:57] <mwh> not really
[09:57] <mwh> "our heads"
[09:58] <ddaa> My head is not good at recording this sort of data.
[09:58] <jerenkrantz> anyhoo, thx for being responsive.  will get you a dump in a few days.  l8rz.
[09:58] <ddaa> jerenkrantz: you're welcome, nice to check with us first.
[09:59] <jerenkrantz> (fwiw, we also informally hang out in #asfinfra; but<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is our principal contact.)
[09:59] <jerenkrantz> take care!
[10:03] <LaserJock> kiko: thanks for the blog post
[10:20] <kiko> LaserJock, you're welcome! more to come.
[10:27] <ScottK> kiko: Are you reading responses on ubuntu-devel or just on launchpad-users?
[10:28] <kiko> ScottK, I'm reading responses to me!
[10:29] <kiko> I don't read mailing lists (not really :-P)
[10:29] <ScottK> OK.  Generally if you are going to send mail to a mail list, I'd expect you to read the responses on the list.
[10:30] <ScottK> I've just forwarded you the responses I sent to the list.
[10:36] <kiko> ScottK, if you read my reply to seb, you'll see I catered for the larger problem of "Incomplete to what?" there
[10:37] <ScottK> kiko: True.  My reply was written before his.
[10:37] <kiko> ScottK, I'm sorry for not subscribing to ubuntu-devel, but i'm wary of all the email I already get
[10:37] <ScottK> kiko: If you aren't going to read replies to the list, then I think you ought to tell people that in advance.
[10:38] <kiko> ScottK, I was hoping people would comment on the blog itself.. I even asked there
[10:39] <ScottK> Blog commenting takes more time that hitting reply to list.  I don't even know if I can comment (registration, etc.)
[10:39] <kiko> but yeah.
[10:39] <kiko> ScottK, for the record, I /hate/ Triaged
[10:39] <kiko> I think it's a bong idea
[10:39] <ScottK> Agreed, although I dislike Triaged less than auto-expiring.
[10:40] <kiko> we're going to get into a fight now!!! :)
[10:40] <radix> kiko: you asked for upstreams not using Triaged. Landscape doesn't.
[10:40] <ScottK> I think the idea is proken by design.
[10:40] <radix> (for one)
[10:40] <kiko> radix, Launchpad doesn't either (except by mistake)
[10:41] <radix> heh
[10:41] <kiko> ScottK, it takes some getting used to, that's for sure!
[10:42] <radix> kiko: we also use "Fix Committed" to mean "in trunk", not "Fix Implemented Somewhere But Not Yet Merged" (like your post suggested)
[10:42] <radix> (and then it's moved to Fixed Released once we actually deploy or release it)
[10:42] <ScottK> kiko: The implementation aside, even the concept of what was planned to be implemented is just flat wrong.
[10:42] <radix> i.e., it goes to Fix Committed *after* we review it.
[10:43] <kiko> ScottK, you're not going to convince me over IRC, but I'd be happier if you waited until we think we have it right to weigh your definitive opinion.
[10:43] <kiko> radix, that's exactly what I described (hopefully)
[10:43] <radix> kiko: ok, I got a different impression.
[10:44] <ScottK> kiko: I'm willing to be convinced, but unless and until you get 100% concurrence from all projects on the semantics of Incomplete, whatever rule you choose will be wrong for someone.
[10:44] <radix> kiko: I guess I read "(Please Test My Fix)" as "(Please Review My Fix)"
[10:44] <ScottK> Additionally, I think it's just wrong to automatically reject someone's work (i.e. the bug report) without a human decision to do so.
[10:44] <kiko> ScottK, the janitor will help people get the semantics right. it's a bit forceful, but yeah.
[10:44] <ScottK> For you definition of right.
[10:44] <radix> kiko: oh, I see your comment in the second paragraph about review now. Ok, sorry.
[10:44] <ScottK> Not you customers.
[10:44] <ScottK> you/your
[10:45] <kiko> ScottK, I understand your philosophical issue, but I am more concerned with the practical issue. we have trillions of bugs and reporters which file them incomplete and never come back.
[10:45] <kiko> if the reporter cares, he can come back and reopen it
[10:45] <kiko> so I don't see any philosophical problems here.
[10:45] <LaserJock> for me personally I'd rather get rejected automatically than by a person
[10:45] <ScottK> Then there are classes of bugs that are real issues even if you know enough.
[10:46] <ScottK> A crash is always a valid bug, you just may not now enough to figure out how to fix it.
[10:46] <ScottK> Crashes should never be automatically closed in my opinion.
[10:46] <kiko> ScottK, but if the crash isn't affecting anyone who cares about it, I argue it doesn't matter.
[10:46] <kiko> there are always bugs.
[10:46] <kiko> it's software
[10:46] <kiko> you wanna fix the ones which affect users.
[10:46] <ScottK> Crashes always represent a real defect.
[10:46] <ScottK> Sure.
[10:46] <kiko> the ones which aren't affecting users, you ignore.
[10:47] <ddaa> A crash bug report that is not reproducible by lack of information is not good for much.
[10:47] <ddaa> Besides, crashes are NOT always bugs.
[10:47] <ScottK> No, but several tother might be.
[10:47] <ScottK> They are always a bug in something.
[10:47] <kiko> in Launchpad, we get OOPSes triggered by crawlers that are submitting invalid UTF-8
[10:47] <ddaa> they may be caused by hardware defects too
[10:47] <kiko> do you think we care very much?
[10:47] <ScottK> kiko: No, I'm not under the impression you do.
[10:47] <kiko> I sneeze at said robots! crappy inhuman denizens of the internet.
[10:48] <kiko> anyway.
[10:49] <ddaa> ScottK: maybe your issue is more one of naming... I agree that "Incomplete" may not convey the right message.
[10:49] <ddaa> It really means "Reply expected, or else..."
[10:50] <ScottK> I think not losing information is more important than keeping some manager's bug stat report happy.
[10:50] <kiko> it's not really the manager; it's the triager who has a billion bugs to look at needs help filtering out what is more important.
[10:50] <ScottK> I also think not disrespecting bug reporter's contributions by having a bot judge their work is also important.
[10:51] <kiko> I think by not replying to a developer's request is a much greater disrespect.
[10:51] <ScottK> Then they can sort by recently changed.  That's what I do.
[10:51] <kiko> or whatever that means in english
[10:51] <ScottK> Yes, but that's a matter between the reporter and the triager.  The system shouldn't insert itself in the middle.
[10:52] <ScottK> But I need to lay off this discussion before my blood pressure gets to high.
[10:53] <kiko> you should try cycling. it is great for the heart
[10:53] <kiko> of course, you sometimes end up like this: http://www.amigosdabike.com.br/foto/bv_ft_32676_18.jpg
[10:54] <kiko> I am almost 100% healed from my last accident
[10:54] <kiko> but I have two races in the next week
[10:54] <ajmitch> time for another one then?
[10:55] <kiko> I'm praying no!
[10:55] <radix> kiko: do you show people that picture to help them relieve their fantasies of kiko-directed violence?
[10:55] <kiko> radix, in part, yes.
[10:55] <radix> good idea ;-)
[10:56] <kiko> I would be willing to offer a launchpad bugfix of choice
[10:56] <kiko> if a person explained to me
[10:56] <ScottK> I was once run over by a mini-van when on a bicycle.  It's no fun at all holding onto the front bumper trying not to go under.
[10:56] <kiko> how such clueless users subscribe to launchpad-users, confirming the email, and then can't get off.
[10:56] <kiko> it is amazing.
[10:56] <kiko> ScottK, front bumper? the person didn't brake?
[10:56] <radix> kiko: hmm
[10:57] <radix> kiko: interesting that confirming the email doesn't actually require understanding English
[10:57] <ScottK> They didn't see me until they hit me and say me going under.  I only got dragged a few meters.
[10:57] <radix> kiko: It could be that they received an email and hit "Reply" to type in "I don't understand you" ;-)
[10:57] <ScottK> Every mail list I've ever seen has that problem.
[10:57] <kiko> radix, so they could be replying "WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" in swahili?
[10:57] <radix> yeah.
[10:57] <kiko> ScottK, I think the secret might be MUA integration
[10:57] <kiko> i.e. put a button "I never want to get email from this f*cking source ever again"
[10:58] <ScottK> Well I know of people who would have trouble with that too.
[10:58] <radix> that sure would be nice.
[10:59] <kiko> I know some too. but maybe that might help some of the cases
[11:01] <ubotu> New bug: #148271 in rosetta "Downloaded tar file produces errors/warnings when extracting" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148271
[11:05] <ubotu> New bug: #148276 in rosetta "po files should have the same name as when they were uploaded" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148276
[11:20] <ubotu> New bug: #148286 in rosetta "multiple template export has wrong directory names" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148286


[00:36] <_stink_> it's nice out
[00:36] <_stink_> really still
[01:50] <cmaloney> i swear we ran into a dozen people playing pokemon go
[01:50] <jrwren> yup
[01:50] <jrwren> EVERYONE (not really, but most) were plyaing it in AA last night.
[01:51] <jrwren> it was so much fun messing with them.
[01:51] <cmaloney> ourselves included (JoDee)
[01:51] <cmaloney> jah
[01:51] <cmaloney> tjat is awesome
[01:51] <cmaloney> figured AA woild have more
[01:51] <Zimdale> Man
[01:51] <Zimdale> we just drove through farmington
[01:51] <Zimdale> people EVERYWHERE playing that stupid game
[01:51] <Zimdale> the traction is unreal
[01:51] <cmaloney> but we went by my parent's place and there were people out in the parks
[01:52] <cmaloney> its amazimg
[01:52] <Zimdale> It's like 0-facebook overnight
[01:52] <jrwren> i know there ws a squirtle on liberty last night ;]
[01:52] <cmaloney> jeh
[01:52] <cmaloney> heh
[01:52] <cmaloney> stupid keyboard
[11:54] <cmaloney> Morning
[12:48] <mrgoodcat> there was a squirtle somewhere near the restaurant last night but it never came close enough for me to snag it
[12:48] <cmaloney> heh
[12:48] <cmaloney> JoDee caught some crab thing but it managed to escape and lock her phone.
[12:49] <cmaloney> (well, the app, not hte phone)
[12:49] <mrgoodcat> wow that is quite the crab thing
[12:49] <cmaloney> which was not hard to do
[12:49] <mrgoodcat> its the buggiest app i've ever used for an extended period of time
[12:49] <cmaloney> That app has some issues
[12:49] <cmaloney> heh
[12:49] <mrgoodcat> I usually have no patience for that kind of thing
[12:50] <cmaloney> I'm just glad that the news reports were able to explain what we were doing to my parents
[12:50] <cmaloney> because I was having a hell of a time. ;)
[12:50] <mrgoodcat> haha
[12:51] <cmaloney> and of course when we're standing out there near their house there wasn't anything that JoDee could catch to give a good demo
[12:51] <Zimdale> Just feel for the server guys having to keep that shit running
[12:52] <cmaloney> totally
[12:52] <cmaloney> esp. since the only way to get it to re-run was to re-authenticate
[12:52] <Zimdale> I don't think they ever could have predicted the traction that it got
[12:52] <cmaloney> nope
[12:53] <Zimdale> at least they run it off google cloud engine so in theory they can scale horizontally
[12:53] <cmaloney> I'd wager this was orders of magnitude more popular than Ingres
[12:53] <Zimdale> very very much
[12:53] <cmaloney> we came to the Ingres party way late and I never saw anyone playing it
[12:53] <cmaloney> not that I tried very hard
[12:54] <Zimdale> I never heard of ingres until this app came out
[12:54] <Zimdale> and people started bitching about it not being original
[12:54] <mrgoodcat> haha
[12:54] <mrgoodcat> i played ingress a bit
[12:54] <mrgoodcat> i think a lot of people installed the app then never firgured out what you're even supposed to do
[12:55] <mrgoodcat> also joining late was a pain i've heard since the stronger players just stomped u
[12:56] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, I felt like a gnat at a picnic when we started
[12:57] <cmaloney> merely an annoyance to the bigger players
[12:59] <mrgoodcat> according to forbes, pokemon is about to pass twitter in DAUs
[12:59] <mrgoodcat> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2016/07/10/pokemon-go-about-to-surpass-twitter-in-daily-active-users/#1677d0685174
[13:01] <cmaloney> That wouldn't surprise me
[13:02] <cmaloney> though it'll be interesting to see what it looks like in 2-3 weeks


[19:41] <thumper> morning
[19:44] <rick_h_> morning thumper
[19:44] <thumper> morning
[21:31] <thumper> davecheney: how about making that method "StackTrace() []string" ?
[21:53] <thumper> davecheney: also, why are you hung up on one space after a period?
[21:53] <thumper> I was always tought to use two
[21:53] <thumper> and I always do
[21:54] <rick_h_> outdated typewriter days :P
[21:54] <thumper> rick_h_: not just that, I still think it looks better with two
[21:55] <thumper> unless you are using tex which does it auto-magically
[21:57] <rick_h_> it was that way in enlish class in school but by college it had changed
[21:57] <rick_h_> thumper: at least as far as techincally correct I think.
[21:58] <thumper> technically decided by whom?
[21:58] <rick_h_> http://www.mlahandbook.org/fragment/faq#How_many_spaces
[21:58] <rick_h_> MLA
[21:58] <thumper> WTF is MLA?
[21:58] <rick_h_> it was the  standards guide/book we used in school a decade ago
[21:58] <rick_h_> writing guide body for papers/research/etc in the US
[21:59] <thumper> As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks
[21:59] <rick_h_> Complete Manual on Typography (2003) states that "The typewriter tradition of separating sentences with two word spaces after a period has no place in typesetting" and the single space is "standard typographic practice".
[21:59] <rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing
[22:00] <thumper> rick_h_: does the MLA say to spell "colour" as "color" as well?
[22:00] <rick_h_> at this point it's just uncommon and inconsistant
[22:01] <thumper> There is a debate on which convention is more readable, but the few recent direct studies conducted since 2002 have produced inconclusive results.[13]
[22:01] <thumper> heh
[22:01] <thumper> let's try an measure something entirely subjective...
[22:01] <rick_h_> thumper: yea, so it's just common practice these days most folks have gone to 1 space post the typewriter
[22:01]  * thumper is just old
[22:01] <rick_h_> thumper: and a lot of folks don't even konw where the two space thing came from
[22:01] <rick_h_> yep :)
[22:23] <thumper> waigani: quick catch up now?
[22:23] <waigani> thumper: sure
[22:23] <thumper> waigani: or would you prefer around 1:30?
[22:23] <waigani> now's good
[22:23] <thumper> ok
[22:23] <thumper> jump in the normal hangout
[22:23] <thumper> for thee 1:!
[22:43] <davecheney> thumper: stacktrace sounds good
[22:43] <davecheney> one space after period, it's the law
[22:43] <thumper> whose law?
[22:44] <davecheney> thumper: http://practicaltypography.com/one-space-between-sentences.html
[22:47] <menn0> wallyworld_, thumper: the backport for that container scoped relations fix for 1.20 is here. http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/470/diff/
[22:48] <wallyworld_> menn0: thanks, typically you can land backports without review
[22:48] <wallyworld_> well i do
[22:49] <menn0> wallyworld_: ok. the only thing is I did the setup for one of the tests differently in 1.20 to avoid having to pulling in revs for stuff the tests for the orig fix relied on
[22:49] <menn0> wallyworld_: that might be worth a quick look
[22:49] <wallyworld_> sure, will do
[22:50] <wallyworld_> thumper: are you able to look at bug 1392745 - judging by the title, there may be an issue with system-identity and upgrades which affects juju-run
[22:50] <mup> Bug #1392745: juju run doesn't after upgrade to 1.20.11 <canonical-bootstack> <regression> <run> <upgrade-juju> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.21:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1392745>
[22:50] <thumper> waigani: not in a quick turn around
[22:50] <thumper> sorry, wallyworld_
[22:50] <menn0> wallyworld_: it's a little hacky but I think it's ok given that the hack only exists in the 1.20 branch and is fairly localised
[22:51] <wallyworld_> thumper: sorry for?
[22:51] <thumper> wallyworld_: not in a quick turn around
[22:51] <thumper> on call reviewer, and other calls today
[22:51] <wallyworld_> ok, np
[22:51] <thumper> and only parent, so taking kid to physio after school too
[22:51] <wallyworld_> sure
[22:51] <menn0> regarding bug 1386143, my reading of the final comments is that the problem was resolved in beta1 so perhaps it can be closed now.
[22:52] <mup> Bug #1386143: 1.21 alpha 2 broke watch api, no longer reports all services <api> <regression> <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-gui:Invalid> <juju-quickstart:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386143>
[22:52] <menn0> wallyworld_: ^^
[22:52] <wallyworld_> i think so too
[22:52] <menn0> wallyworld_: ok i'll close it
[22:54] <wallyworld_> menn0: you exported AddCharm just for the test?
[22:54] <menn0> wallyworld_: yes. I wouldn't normally have except that this was a backport to 1.20.
[22:54] <menn0> wallyworld_: originally I had copied the body into clone...()
[22:54] <wallyworld_> menn0: why not put it in export_test?
[22:55] <menn0> wallyworld_: it is
[22:55] <menn0> wallyworld_: [aA]ddCharm is in export_test.go
[22:55] <wallyworld_> doh, can't red, sorry
[22:55] <wallyworld_> read
[22:55] <menn0> cant' write either :-p
[22:55] <wallyworld_> sigh
[22:55] <menn0> but then either can I....
[22:55] <wallyworld_> still drinking first coffee
[22:56] <menn0> neither
[22:56] <menn0> fark
[22:56] <wallyworld_> lol
[22:56] <menn0> i've had 3 coffees so i have no excuse
[22:56] <menn0> although i did go to bed too late
[22:59] <wallyworld_> must have been a good party


[07:11] <dholbach> good morning
[16:37] <highvoltage> dholbach: hey, aren't you on holiday already?
[16:38] <dholbach> nope, not yet, tuesday is my last working day and I'll leave directly that evening
[16:40] <xdatap> dholbach, have fun!
[16:40] <dholbach> xdatap, will do :-D
[16:40] <xdatap> dholbach, and next place, in order, will be Italy! :P
[16:40] <dholbach> hahaha
[16:40]  * dholbach hugs xdatap
[16:40]  * xdatap hugs back dholbach


[16:00] <sil2100> o/
[16:00] <rbasak> o/
[16:01] <rbasak> Seb sent his apologies
[16:01] <rbasak> Who else is here?
[16:01] <teward> *yawns* half-here
[16:01] <bdmurray> o/
[16:01] <teward> the other half of me is in lala land aka "exchange mail server hell"
[16:02] <sil2100> I think we need to update the chair rotation list, since right now it's just me on it
[16:02] <sil2100> And I'd prefer not to chair today, if possible
[16:03] <sil2100> Any other volunteers?
[16:03] <rbasak> I can chair
[16:03] <sil2100> We don't have candidates, but maybe we could take a look at the action items
[16:03] <rbasak> FWIW, I don't see the point of having a rotation list. Because the only people who can chair are the people who are present, and so we end up having to choose the chair from the people present rather than from a rotation list.
[16:03] <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Memebership Board
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:03:53 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:04] <rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
[16:04] <rbasak> sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[16:04] <rbasak> teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[16:04] <sil2100> I think I did *some* progress on that, but I need to check if I got all the places
[16:04] <sil2100> Let me browse around
[16:04] <sil2100> (please continue in the meantime)
[16:04] <rbasak> Should I carry it over for now then?
[16:05] <teward> carry over.  never enough cycles in the week
[16:05] <teward> (for mine)
[16:05] <rbasak> #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[16:05] <rbasak> #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[16:05] <sil2100> Let's carry mine over, but hopefully we'll close it by the end of the meeting
[16:05] <rbasak> OK thanks
[16:05] <rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[16:06] <rbasak> #info No outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[16:06] <rbasak> #topic Open TB bugs
[16:06] <rbasak> #info No open TB bugs
[16:06] <rbasak> #topic AOB
[16:07] <rbasak> I'd like to talk about what we're doing about the automatic packagesets, but apart from that, any other AOB?
[16:07] <utkarsh2102> yes!
[16:07] <sil2100> I wanted to discuss if we should remove the chair rotation thingy from the Agenda then
[16:08] <rbasak> I'm in favour of that
[16:08] <utkarsh2102> the welcome mail said we'll talk about the time of our meetings, I'm not sure if we want to
[16:08] <sil2100> I don't mind, since I don't even remember the rationale of that
[16:08] <sil2100> (it was too long ago)
[16:08] <rbasak> utkarsh2102: we can talk about it if there's someone who's looking to change the timing. Are you looking to do that, or just following up from the welcome email?
[16:10] <utkarsh2102> not really looking to change but just wanted to mention that 1900 UTC means 0030 for me. :)
[16:10] <utkarsh2102> so I might miss some days when the meeting is at 19 UTC
[16:10] <rbasak> I think that's OK.
[16:10] <utkarsh2102> nothing else, but I shall do my utmost to be present
[16:10] <rbasak> OTOH, if you'd like to change the timing, then I'm open to that too, but IMHO you would need to drive that.
[16:11] <rbasak> Shall I call it agreed that we're removing the chair rotation list then, in favour of picking an appropriate chair when needed?
[16:12] <bdmurray> That's fine with me
[16:12] <utkarsh2102> nah, the timing is good - covers a good number of TZs
[16:12] <utkarsh2102> and yes, seems fair enough!
[16:12] <rbasak> #agreed The chair rotation list shall be removed, in favour of picking an appropriate chair when needed.
[16:12] <meetingology> AGREED: The chair rotation list shall be removed, in favour of picking an appropriate chair when needed.
[16:13] <rbasak> I'd like us to consider what we're doing with the automatic packageset stuff. I think the current state of things is that the script is rotting somewhat, and needs some attention to bring it back to the point where we can just run it and be confident in the result.
[16:14] <rbasak> I think this needs someone to drive it, and was hoping for a volunteer.
[16:14] <rbasak> FWIW, I don't think it even needs to be a DMB member really.
[16:15] <utkarsh2102> maybe send this to the list?
[16:15] <rbasak> For background, this is the script that tries to automatically determine the contents of the server, desktop and flavor packagesets by examining the seeds.
[16:15] <rbasak> Yeah, sure, if nobody is volunteering now.
[16:16] <rbasak> OK, I'll take it to the ML
[16:16] <rbasak> AOB?
[16:17] <rbasak> #endmeeting
[16:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:17:09 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-06-27-16.03.moin.txt
[16:17] <rbasak> Thanks all!
[16:17] <utkarsh2102> none from my end
[16:17] <sil2100> None from me! I'm actually updating one last place for the CoC bits
[16:17] <sil2100> Will adjust the agenda when I'm done typing the words
[16:17] <rbasak> Sure. Thanks!
[16:22] <sil2100> rbasak: thanks for chairing!
[16:24] <utkarsh2102> thanks for chairing, indeed!


[06:22]  * mlinscott is AFK, Ran to the Store —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n—
[06:50]  * mlinscott is back from Ran to the Store. I was gone for 27mins —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n—


[04:56] <pitti> Good morning
[04:56] <larsu> good morning!
[04:56] <pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
[04:56] <larsu> argh, I was just happy that I was first :)
[04:57] <larsu> pitti: hi! Good. Had a nice relaxing weekend at the Müritz with great weather for biking and kayaking. You?
[05:01] <pitti> larsu: we spent it mostly at home as it was raining all the time :/
[05:01] <pitti> larsu: originally I planned to finally do that kite ride, but once again bad weather :(
[05:03] <larsu> sorry to hear :(
[05:03] <pitti> larsu: fourth time will be the charm! (next date: first June weekend)
[05:03] <larsu> pitti: good luck!
[06:03] <didrocks> good morning
[06:07] <pitti> bonjour didrocks !
[06:07] <didrocks> hey pitti
[06:24] <larsu> no name yet?
[06:25] <pitti> larsu: not officially, no :/
[06:25] <pitti> sabdfl promised to blog about it yesterday, but seems that still didn't happen
[06:25] <pitti> no wobbly walrus yet :)
[06:25]  * larsu is a sad warthog
[07:11] <Guest51842> Hello. I am new to linux ubuntu and can not get my sound blaster z sound card to work. does anyone have any suggestions possibly? Thanks!
[07:24] <didrocks> interesting, it seems that the visual studio code support brought a lot of new translators for ubuntu make
[07:25] <didrocks> (like 3 new langages, 4 other translation refresh since my last translation snapshot less than a month ago)
[07:26] <didrocks> (also, first release to be taken really widely in the press)
[07:49] <seb128> didrocks, the microsoft coolness :-)
[07:49] <didrocks> seems so :p
[08:12] <duflu> pitti, larsu: Blog shows it will be announced today (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/)
[08:13] <larsu> ah cool, thanks duflu
[11:14] <larsu> seb128: do you know the answer to this? https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/indicator-messages/clear-all-unescape-fix/+merge/257471/comments/643548
[12:32] <seb128> larsu, not really, but I guess we can SRU the fix and then it's up to the rtm/landing teams to include that or not
[12:34] <larsu> seb128: ok. just asking if you think it makes sense in general. I'll comment that we need an SRU-bug
[12:34] <seb128> larsu, yeah, makes sense to SRU imho
[12:37] <seb128> larsu, btw did you get anywhere with the location/soup/gvfs/geoclue issue?
[12:38] <larsu> seb128: not yet but thanks for reminding me :)
[12:38] <seb128> larsu, yw!
[14:38] <Sweet5hark> ricotz: fwiw 4.4.3~rc2 uploaded, building -- but untested ...
[14:48] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, thanks, will grab it asap
[14:48] <ogra_> Sweet5hark, libreOffice-KitKat ?
[14:51] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: we have libreofficekit. https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/tree/master/libreofficekit
[14:52] <ogra_> heh
[14:52] <Sweet5hark> ogra_:  I hear Kats are available on the internetz. add them for instant kitkat
[14:52] <ogra_> lol
[15:25] <seb128> desrt, larsu, did you register a blueprint/session for the gsettings security work for UOS?
[15:26] <larsu> seb128: was just looking myself if there's one. I thought jdstrand was going to do it :/
[15:27] <seb128> did he say he would?
[15:27] <seb128> I assumed we would do that
[15:27] <larsu> I offered that we talk at uos and I said yes
[15:27] <larsu> so that's what I assumed
[15:29] <Sweet5hark> couldnt help myself when hearing about the wilywerewolf: https://twitter.com/Sweet5hark/status/595246983226511360
[15:33] <seb128> larsu, desrt, do you prefer to re-use https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings or have a new one?
[15:36]  * jdstrand is not leading that discussion
[15:36] <larsu> seb128: reuse is fine by me. I don't know enough about this topic yet anyway, which is why I this session
[15:36] <jdstrand> since we aren't implementing it
[15:36] <jdstrand> so I didn't register it. I'm ahppy to attend the session
[15:36] <seb128> jdstrand, right
[15:36] <seb128> thanks
[15:36] <larsu> jdstrand: you know what needs to be done though right?
[15:37] <jdstrand> larsu: honestly, I don't know why we are going the gsettings route since it seems more complex of an implementation to solve what is precisely required. the previous conversation seemed that was the implementation that was desired
[15:38] <jdstrand> and I'm not dictating implementation
[15:38] <jdstrand> all I care about is that the settings are stored somewhere that doesn't constitute a privacy leak
[15:38] <larsu> jdstrand: what precisely is required? GSettings exists exactly for the needs we have on desktop
[15:39] <jdstrand> you asked if I know what needs to be done. I know what needs to be done security wise. I don't know all the reasons why gsettings was chosen or the internal implementation details for what is planned
[15:40] <jdstrand> all that is required is a place for a few things for apps to query-- locale, vibrate, grid units, etc
[15:41] <seb128> jdstrand, larsu, the current need is to store/access some easy settings, we could do something easier for those special cases but that wouldn't be futur/convergence proof
[15:41] <jdstrand> gsettings obviously can do that, but making gsettings work with application isolation is harder than a separate service. I'll let others decide
[15:41] <seb128> jdstrand, we are going to need to isolate gsettings for the desktop usecase in the futur anyway, so better to tackle that issue rather than reinvent a solution for the easy case and then having 2 things for the some purpose
[15:44] <seb128> mhall119, hey, how do we get https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings accepted for uos and scheduled?
[15:45] <mhall119> security-r- ? how old is this
[15:45] <jdstrand> it is old
[15:45] <larsu> mhall119: very
[15:45] <mhall119> man oh man...
[15:45] <mhall119> seb128: rename it to core-1505- or convergence-1505- and I'll accept it to the sprint
[15:45] <jdstrand> we knew it would be a lot of work and app isolation on the phone didn't need it
[15:46] <jdstrand> (until recently)
[15:46] <mhall119> seb128: also, can you send me whatever you have on the desktop widgets work so I can prepare for that session?
[15:46] <seb128> mhall119, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-gsettings-confinement
[15:47] <mhall119> seb128: accepted, give it an hour or so and it'll be imported into summit where I can schedule it
[15:47] <seb128> mhall119, thanks
[15:47]  * mhall119 will have to find an open slot
[15:48] <seb128> mhall119, desktop widgets ... we don't have a lot, we didn't really start on it, design did some work though, maybe JohnLea can point you to some online version of that?
[15:49] <mhall119> I'll poke him, thanks
[15:49] <seb128> thanks
[15:50] <seb128> mhall119, scheduling ... maybe you can borrow the community or core 15utc slot on thursday
[15:51] <mhall119> seb128: core probably, yes
[15:51] <larsu> jdstrand: I totally don't understand how a separate service is supposed to be easier to write than a service that exposes gsettings to an app... But these misunderstandings are why we wanted to talk in the first place, right?
[15:52] <jdstrand> larsu: have I mentioned I'm not dictating implementation? :)
[15:54] <seb128> larsu, a new service with no feature than letting you read/write some specific keys would probably be easier to write that the gsettings confinement one
[15:54] <seb128> but no point discussing that
[15:54] <seb128> that's not a solution, that would be a workaround to the current phone problem which only needs some specific keys
[15:55] <seb128> let's focus on discussing the proper solution and work on that
[15:55] <larsu> jdstrand: you did, but you also talked down our solution. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise
[15:56] <larsu> seb128: maybe, but the concept desrt wrote is really small already
[15:56] <larsu> seb128: in any case, we'll need it at some point so might as well do it now
[15:56] <seb128> larsu, +1
[15:56] <seb128> larsu, the issue was not small or not, just it's probably would have been harder to write for somebody who doesn't know gsettings as well
[15:57] <larsu> seb128: that's why desrt is doing it ;)
[15:57] <seb128> right
[15:57] <seb128> so let's focus on that
[15:57] <larsu> ok, let's all focus on desrt!
[15:57] <seb128> the suggestion from doing something easier was coming from other teams who don't have the knowledge to easily do the proper solution
[15:57] <seb128> and wanted something they can use
[15:58] <larsu> ah, got it
[16:01] <jdstrand> larsu: I didn't talk it down-- I said I didn't understand the reasons behind it
[16:02] <larsu> jdstrand: fair enough
[16:10] <desrt> seb128: i asked will about a session but he was unable to find space
[16:10] <desrt> but he was going to look into it again, iirc
[16:11] <seb128> desrt, ok, seems like mhall119 can put one on the core track
[16:11] <seb128> desrt, do you have any estimate also about when we should be able to land a first version of the service?
[16:12] <desrt> end of the month if i'm not distracted
[16:12] <seb128> thanks
[16:13]  * desrt is trying not to be distracted :)
[16:13] <desrt> fwiw, read works, more or less
[16:13] <desrt> write is TODO
[16:13] <desrt> is-writable is a big scary TODO
[16:13] <desrt> but maybe we can survive without that at first
[16:14] <desrt> (ie: dealing with sysadmin lockdown of settings in a way that the app knows which settings its allowed to change, in order to grey out the appropriate widgets in the dialogs, etc.)
[16:15] <attente> oh, could this be useful? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-system-settings/session-settings-service
[16:15] <xclaesse> seb128, GtkFileChooser in vivid doesn't sort folders on top anymore
[16:16] <xclaesse> seb128, on fedora there is an option for that on the right-click context menu
[16:16] <xclaesse> dunno if that's upstream in gtk 3.16 or if it's fedora specific patch
[16:17] <seb128> xclaesse, dunno either
[16:17] <xclaesse> would make sense to have it in ubuntu
[16:17] <seb128> attente, useful for desrt or as a solution until the gsettings work is done?
[16:18] <attente> seb128: this is the settings stuff that we were talking about last year? or is desrt working on something different?
[16:19] <seb128> attente, desrt is working on making access to gsettings key restricted/having confinement
[16:19] <seb128> attente, e.g let gedit reads only its keys and some system ones
[16:19] <seb128> rather than having access to the whole database
[16:19] <attente> ah, ok. that branch won't be useful then
[16:22] <seb128> hum
[16:22] <seb128> bah, I missed didrocks it seems ;-)
[16:25] <desrt> attente: this is interesting in fact
[16:26] <desrt> we may be able to provide some of the same functionality via the new service
[16:26] <desrt> in the same way that we provide the xsettings-type stuff
[16:26] <attente> desrt: how do you mean?
[16:26] <attente> desrt: like u-s-d xsettings plugin?
[16:26] <mhall119> seb128: 1500 utc on core is taken, can you do 1800?
[16:27] <seb128> desrt, larsu, ^ would thursday 18utc work for that session?
[16:33] <xclaesse> seb128, it's upstream with commit 2aa3eea781ed21a02ecdf1e3c753a1ec5694d6c8
[16:33] <xclaesse> seb128, could be backported to 3.14 for ubuntu ?
[16:34] <seb128> xclaesse, it's a new string, it's a bit annoying to backport since it wouldn't have translations
[16:35] <xclaesse> seb128, or the default could be changed with no option?
[16:35] <seb128> xclaesse, changing the default would make sense to me
[16:35] <xclaesse> that's how it was before 3.14
[16:35] <seb128> Laney, larsu: ^ wdyt? (having gtk "sort folders first" default to on)
[16:35] <seb128> right
[16:35] <seb128> at least for vivid, until we get a GTK version that provides an UI for setting that back
[16:44] <desrt> seb128: thursday is fine for me
[16:45] <seb128> desrt, 18utc as well?
[16:45] <desrt> i'm here all day :)
[16:45] <seb128> k
[16:45] <seb128> mhall119, seems it should work for us
[16:45] <seb128> mhall119, thanks
[16:47] <seb128> mhall119, or can't you give us the 3pm community slot? I've a feeling that the 6pm app cycle management session is going to conflict some people
[16:47] <seb128> or maybe not, not sure if security teams want to go to that one
[16:50] <jdstrand> we can send people to different meetings
[16:51] <jdstrand> (though, please avoid a snappy conflict)
[16:52] <seb128> k
[16:54] <larsu> seb128: thu at 8pm works for me. I agree, sort folders has to default to 'on'
[16:54] <seb128> larsu, thanks


[00:09] <hvgotcodes> i just installed xubuntu on an m1530.  my wireless isn't working, can someone help me troubleshoot htis?
[00:53] <thinkmassive> hvgotcodes, have you tried connecting through a shell?
[01:37] <kooltk3> hello
[02:41] <soul_786> Would i be better with Xubuntu or Ubuntu for an eee pc with a touch screen mod to be installed?
[02:45] <thinkmassive> I would say xubuntu
[02:45] <thinkmassive> but then again this is #xubuntu
[02:45] <thinkmassive> I'm running it on my thinkpad X61 because I like xfce better than the alternatives
[02:46] <thinkmassive> what kind of touch screen mod are you doing?
[02:46] <thinkmassive> this tablet has finger touch capability but that's the one thing I haven't gotten working under linux :(
[02:51] <soul_786> AH ic well, Its more of a hard-mod you buy on ebay and wire it into a USB line by soldering on the insides. Then you download drivers and calibrate it and you're set. Just want to see if I can make the system faster with Xubuntu than Ubuntu. From what i've heard Ubuntu is more intensive.
[03:43] <nubuntu> in the last few days i upgraded to hardy, and one thing that has happened is that my videos don't stream properly, like when viewing a youtube, it stops halfway through i guess to reload.  anybody have any fix for this?
[04:00] <zoredache> nubuntu: that sounds unusual.  What did you upgrade from?  Had you done anything unusual to get faslh working before?
[04:00] <zoredache> My first guess would be to start by uninstalling flash, and reinstalling
[04:01] <nubuntu> i think i had trouble with it when i had gutsy, then it was fixed with feisty, and now hardy giving me trouble ....
[04:01] <nubuntu> hmmmm, whats the easiest way to uninstall/install?
[04:02] <nubuntu> or, should i say, the BEST way
[04:03] <zoredache> well how did you install it?  If you installed with the package manager, then uninstall it that way..  If you did something more difficult like downloading from adobe's site then you are probably on your own for figuring that out
[04:04] <nubuntu> ok, i look in synaptic
[05:43] <akaaka> hello, i wonder why youtube its not woring with xubuntu?
[05:44] <akaaka> i install adobe flash player, i install swfdec player for arobe macromedia flash and i install gnash swf player
[05:44] <akaaka> and still i cant make it work:@
[05:44] <akaaka> :S
[05:54] <bassboi> hey is there a limewire type thing for xubuntu?
[05:55] <akaaka> does
[05:55] <akaaka> open office does not work with
[05:55] <akaaka> xfce?
[05:57] <itai> hi - to install xfce on ubuntu i need to run aptitude install xfce4, correct?
[05:59] <itai> ..
[06:26] <akaaka> hi
[06:26] <akaaka> i need to add a new resolution to xubuntu
[06:26] <akaaka> anybody know how can i add a 800 x 480 resolution?
[06:27] <TheSheep> akaaka: try typing 'sudo displayconfig-gtk' in the terminal
[06:29] <akaaka> thx
[06:29] <akaaka> the sheep
[06:29] <akaaka> i will try
[06:33] <akaaka> hmmm
[06:33] <akaaka> well the native resolutoin of my screen its 800x480
[06:33] <akaaka> but when i test this resolution
[06:33] <akaaka> i cant see anything
[06:33] <akaaka> maybe its just a test problem?
[06:33] <gaurdro> it may be the refresh rate.
[06:33] <akaaka> maybe its just a test
[06:33] <akaaka> yeah
[06:33] <akaaka> i should accept it
[06:34] <gaurdro> if you can try 60Hz
[06:34] <akaaka> i should accept it
[06:34] <akaaka> just to be sure
[06:34] <akaaka> i only have the 58 option
[06:34] <akaaka> not 60
[06:35] <akaaka> wow
[06:35] <akaaka> flawless
[06:35] <akaaka> thanks a lot
[06:35] <akaaka> im impressed how xubuntu its working on my asus eee
[06:36] <akaaka> a celeron cpu and 512 ddr ram
[06:36] <akaaka> lol
[06:36] <akaaka> at least i already fix my wifi and resolution
[06:36] <akaaka> now i need to fix my sound and see why youtube is not working lol
[06:48] <TheSheep> akaaka: make sure you have flashplugin-nonfree installed
[06:52] <akaaka> its working now
[06:52] <akaaka> thanks a lot
[06:52] <akaaka> the sound its also working now
[06:52] <akaaka> for some weird reason
[06:52] <akaaka> it seems my xubuntu 8.04 on my eeepc its ready no
[06:52] <akaaka> now
[06:53] <akaaka> i didnt have to use the eeexubuntu which is old xubuntu version
[06:57] <TheSheep> akaaka: that's the 9" version?
[06:57] <TheSheep> akaaka: or the 7"?
[06:59] <akaaka> 7
[06:59] <akaaka> i just discover that im still have resolution problems for example the settings manager, i cant see all the icons
[06:59] <akaaka> almost all but not all
[07:00] <akaaka> but overall its ok. for youtube i need to open the full to see it
[07:00] <akaaka> i need to work more on it, but overall its good
[07:00] <TheSheep> akaaka: the settings manager is like this, it's a bug
[07:00] <akaaka> oh really?
[07:01] <TheSheep> hopefully will be better in next version
[07:01] <akaaka> hmmm
[07:01] <akaaka> cool
[07:01] <akaaka> good to know
[07:02] <akaaka> oh cool
[07:02] <akaaka> xubuntu use mousepad
[07:02] <akaaka> not gedit
[07:02] <akaaka> i didnt know
[07:02] <bassboi> yayaya
[07:03] <TheSheep> you can install getit or geany or any editor you like
[07:03] <TheSheep> mousepad is kinda basic
[07:04] <TheSheep> no syntax highlighting
[07:04] <akaaka> YEAH
[07:04] <akaaka> yeah
[07:04] <akaaka> i like mousepad
[07:04] <akaaka> how does fluxbux work on xfce?
[07:06] <TheSheep> there is even fluxbuntu, I think
[07:06] <TheSheep> or flubuntu?
[07:06] <TheSheep> anyways, works fine
[07:07] <akaaka> ok
[07:07] <akaaka> but xfce by its own its fast
[07:07] <akaaka> i dont think there would be to much difference between fluxbox and xfce
[07:08] <akaaka> maybe fluxbox just a lil bit faster but well
[07:08] <akaaka> i will give a try
[07:08] <TheSheep> there is difference in ram usage
[07:08] <akaaka> yeah fluxbox save a lot more
[07:08] <akaaka> i guess
[07:08] <akaaka> but xfce its running nice
[07:09] <akaaka> at least better than gnome
[07:09] <akaaka> on my eeepc
[07:09] <TheSheep> don't fix what's not broken ;)
[07:09] <akaaka> lol
[07:12] <akaaka> oh yeah
[07:12] <akaaka> external webcam its working
[07:12] <akaaka> on amsn
[07:22] <Name141> Does Xubuntu have the option to install with windows (wubi?)
[07:22] <Name141> Like the other two ?
[07:22] <Name141> on the original disk
[07:23] <akaaka> i dont know about wubi but virtualbox sun edition
[07:23] <akaaka> works flawless
[07:24] <Name141> I have the xubuntu alternative install disk.. I don't see that option like on the shipped CDs.
[07:24] <Name141> Is why I asked, if it was worth downloading the orginal CD
[07:24] <Name141> original
[07:24] <Name141> or whatever
[08:13] <bassboi> SHOW ME WHAT FOR
[08:13] <bassboi> MAKE ME UNDERSTAND IT
[08:22] <TheSheep> bassboi: are you feeling alright?
[08:52] <bassboi> i hope
[08:53] <TheSheep> bassboi: please don't do such silly things
[11:29] <bassboi> HEY GUYZ
[12:02] <wols> !caps | bassboi
[12:49] <ihab> can I change the location xubuntu used in installation of new applictions
[12:54] <TheSheep> ihab: you can mount a different partition under /usr, it's easier when done from the beginning, now you would have to move the current content to the new partition, which is a little tricky
[12:54] <TheSheep> ihab: applications on linux don't live in a single directory like on windows
[13:03] <jokoon> on xubuntu, each time I start a session, the foreground color of the clock is reset to black... whats wrong ?
[13:06] <TheSheep> jokoon: maybe it failed to save for some reason... it hosuld be saved in ~/.config/xfce/panel/ somewhere
[13:06] <TheSheep> jokoon: make sure all files in tehre are writable by you
[13:07] <jokoon> r&w ok
[13:08] <jokoon> fg=65535R 65535G 65535B
[13:08] <jokoon> bg=0R 0G 0B
[13:11] <jokoon> and some other thing
[13:11] <jokoon> each time I boot
[13:11] <jokoon> I have some other partition that doesn't automatically mount
[13:12] <jokoon> until I start the partition editor
[13:13] <TheSheep> you could add it to fstab
[13:13] <TheSheep> !fstab
[13:14] <jokoon> !partitions
[13:17] <jokoon> !diskmounter
[14:45] <jokoon> Hum !
[14:45] <jokoon> Why each time I start a session
[14:45] <jokoon> gnome manages the desktop
[14:46] <jokoon> I don't want t'at !
[14:47] <TheSheep> kill nautilus and save your session on logout
[14:52] <jokoon> how do I save my session ?
[15:03] <TheSheep> jokoon: there is a checkbox when you log out
[15:04] <jokoon> and where can I manage my sessions ?
[15:05] <TheSheep> jokoon: do what?
[15:05] <jokoon> I would like to delete some sessions
[15:05] <jokoon> How can I do that ?
[15:05] <TheSheep> they are saved in ~/.cache/sessions...
[15:16] <jokoon> can't I just set something so that xfce always manages my desktop
[15:16] <jokoon> ?
[15:17] <jokoon> sometime I need to use nautilus, only nautilus can browse phones ...
[15:17] <jokoon> bluetooth I mena
[15:17] <jokoon> mean
[15:24] <Aquina> My system crashed twice in a row and on 3rd start the drive test went through sucessfully. Are there any steps (for data integrity) I'm expected to do?
[15:25] <Aquina> Should I start the system from CD in rescue mode and check the whole FS or is the journaling of ext3 already sufficiant?
[15:27] <zoredache> you should be fine...
[15:32] <Aquina> ok, thx.
[16:02] <hvgotcodes> hey i have a fresh install of xubuntu - does it have compiz by default like ubuntu?
[16:12] <th0r> hvgotcodes, not according to synaptic
[16:13] <hvgotcodes> th0r: do you know how to get the git version for xubunut?
[16:13] <th0r> hvgotcodes, nope...sorry
[16:21] <Jammet> Hello there ...
[16:22] <Jammet> For some reason, it seems that I cannot select a mouse cursor theme. It's a real mess because it seems that in every other app is using a different set of mouse cursors by now.
[16:24] <Jammet> While the cursor is in the Opera window I have theme A, when I have it in miro I have theme B *and* theme A, depending on where the cursor is, in the terminal I have theme B, in Thunar I have themes mixed up, too.
[16:24] <Jammet> Just what is with this mess and how can that even be?
[17:14] <Aquina> cu
[17:22] <kim_> hi, i installed xubuntu yesterday and i was wanting to know how to work various programs since i am new to linux
[17:23] <kim_> mostly i would like to know how to install and run frostwire on linux
[17:30] <kim_>       is anybody out there that can please help me
[17:31] <charlie-tca> What do you need help with?
[17:31] <wols_> help.ubuntu.com
[17:33] <kim_> i am complety new to linex and i need to running and installing software... but mainy running and installing frostwire so i can listen to music
[17:34] <kim_> so if you can help me that would be great
[17:35] <charlie-tca> I'm sorry, I can't help with that issue.
[17:36] <th0r> kim_, you can download the latest frostwire .deb file from here http://www.frostwire.com/?id=downloads
[17:36] <kim_> ok thank you very much
[17:38] <kim_> ok i downloaded it and installed it but it wouldnt run should i just try it all again
[17:39] <th0r> kim_, make sure you have java installed, then open a terminal and type 'frostwire' at the command line. That will if nothing else give you an error message to work witih
[17:40] <kim_> ok
[17:41] <kim_> i will install java and then open a terminal and let you know what happens
[17:45] <kim_> ok, i have java downloaded but i have to choose which application will open it, what should i do now
[17:46] <th0r> kim_, you should have installed java using synaptic....not download it
[17:46] <evilbug> i'm having some trouble with a little crackling on audio playback on the left side. what's causing it?
[17:51] <evilbug_> back. *power failure*
[19:02] <kim_> hello, im back
[19:03] <kim_> ok i have java installed, now i have to download and install frostwire. How is this different from windows
[19:07] <kim_> can anyone help me with this
[19:09] <PsynoKhi0> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrostWire have you checked that page first?
[21:18] <thinkmassive> my desktop disappeared when I connected an external display to my laptop, and it hasn't come back since I rebooted with no external display
[21:19] <thinkmassive> desktop meaning wallpaper and icons
[21:19] <thinkmassive> I can't remember if it preserved my windows after last time I exited
[21:19] <thinkmassive> any idea how to get these back?
[21:19] <thinkmassive> DOH, I just had to check "Let xfce manage desktop"
[21:20] <thinkmassive> haha I'll stop talking now...
[21:46] <xaer0> hello
[21:46] <xaer0> i got xubuntu were i want it :L) installed PC-BSD. its been a fun few days.
[21:47] <xaer0> If i have to have GNOME installed for xubuntu... i installed Ubuntu Studio
[21:47] <xaer0> i have a slight problem with my XFCE Application Menu. if i can get some help
[21:49] <thinkmassive> xaer0, what is the problem?
[21:50] <xaer0> the "other" menu listing :(
[21:50] <thinkmassive> I'm not sure what you mean
[21:50] <xaer0> and i can edit my menu via XFCE Settings Manager.. it just list system and if i uncheck it every app isnt listed
[21:51] <thinkmassive> you want to manually edit the menu?
[21:51] <thinkmassive> what about the menu are you trying to modify?
[21:54] <xaer0> after i installed OpenGEU then removed it and opted for Ubuntu Studio... a menu entry called Other was added to my XFCE menu. This Other menu entry was added to GNOME but was removable.
[21:54] <xaer0> i cant find a way to remove it from XFCE or at least hide it
[21:56] <xaer0> so with ubuntu studio i can remove the "Other" menu listing (using Gnome's menu editor) but in XFCE i cant find a way (in XFCE Menu Editor)
[21:58] <xaer0> the "other" menu entry is just an entry showing everything that is installed
[21:59] <xaer0> so basically duplicate Symlinks
[22:03] <thinkmassive> hmm you might check in /usr/share/applications to see if there's a .desktop file for it
[22:04] <thinkmassive> or try "locate .desktop" and that will show you all the entries on your system
[22:05] <thinkmassive> they could well be in ~/.local/applications
[22:08] <xaer0> hr..
[22:08] <xaer0> not the /usr/share/applications folder
[22:12] <xaer0> this is what i got a ~/.local/share/applications/menu-xdg folder
[22:12] <xaer0> with all the things listed in the "other" menu list
[22:13] <xaer0> its just a bunch of symlinks.. i would raither make this "Other" menu listing hidden instead of deleting this folder just incase
[22:14] <xaer0> the things listed in this menu-xdg are just ".desktop" files
[22:21] <xaer0> ... dont know what to do
[22:27] <xaer0> that did it just delete that .desktop files in the menu-xdg folder
[23:33] <webdemon> hello all
[23:33] <Odd-rationale> hi
[23:35] <webdemon> ? for anyone. I am running Ubuntu atm, but someone said I might want to try Xubuntu since I only have a 2.0ghz machine. I have read on the .org its a lighter version but does it still do all that Ubuntu does?
[23:36] <webdemon> also if I was to sudo apt-get X-desktop would that erase the Hardy version I am using right now?
[23:36] <Odd-rationale> you mean xubuntu-desktop ?
[23:36] <webdemon> yes
[23:37] <Odd-rationale> no. you will get xubuntu hardy heron along side your ubuntu
[23:37] <Odd-rationale> just choose which session you watn in the login session menu.
[23:37] <webdemon> How do you like X?
[23:38] <webdemon> I have had hardy for a week or so now
[23:38] <Odd-rationale> xubuntu is cool
[23:39] <webdemon> I have a 160gig drive that I am about to put into this machine, Should I install HH and then sudo get X or Just download X and install from CD?
[23:40] <webdemon> without installing Ubuntu
[23:40] <Odd-rationale> well. depends on whether you wnat gnome or not...
[23:41] <webdemon> Ive been a windows person for 10+ yrs, its all pretty to me. I understand gnome and kde and know u can run both
[23:41] <webdemon> guess it doesn't really matter
[23:42] <webdemon> just looking for a OP in the matter from people who use the flavor
[23:45] <webdemon> Im going to download x and try a fresh install. Might be back if it all works. lol. Thx for the help.
[23:45] <webdemon> Bye


[10:34] <aquarius> nisshh, heya; would you rather have my incomplete desktopcouch developer manual chapter now so that there's *something*, or wait until it's finished?
[10:34] <nisshh> aquarius, that depends how complete it is and when you plan to have it done by
[10:35] <aquarius> well, the first 60% or so is basically complete (might tweak wording, but hey ho); the latter part remains to be written
[10:35] <aquarius> but Belinda dropped me a mail to say "how are you getting on"
[10:35] <nisshh> right
[10:35] <aquarius> and the answer is: I haven't just ignored it :)
[10:35] <nisshh> i assume its just plain text with no latex formatting at this point?
[10:36] <aquarius> nope, it's latex
[10:36] <nisshh> oh ok
[10:36] <nisshh> heh, i was about to say chuck it in the branch so i can latexify it
[10:36] <nisshh> but nvm now :)
[10:36] <nisshh> well
[10:36] <aquarius> although the extent of my latex is wrapping inline code in \code{}, wrapping lines of code in \verbatim{}, and having \{section}s and \{subsection}s :)
[10:36] <nisshh> chuck it in the branch and just keep working on it from there, tbh
[10:37] <nisshh> ah ok
[10:38] <nisshh> plenty more could be done, like glossary entries, index entries, rewording, editing, etc <- aquarius
[10:38] <aquarius> ya, that's what I thought :)
[10:38] <nisshh> yeah
[10:38] <aquarius> so, I'll push a branch.
[10:38] <nisshh> yeah
[10:38] <nisshh> or you could put it in trunk
[10:38] <nisshh> that way i can jump in and add some latex stuff for you
[10:38] <aquarius> um, I have the rights to commit to trunk?
[10:39] <nisshh> yeah
[10:39] <nisshh> everyone in the launchpad team does
[10:39] <aquarius> blimey. you lot are pretty trusting. :)
[10:39] <nisshh> well
[10:39] <aquarius> if you'd rather I just pushed to trunk, then OK
[10:39] <nisshh> its pretty hard to break the branch
[10:39] <nisshh> hehe
[10:39] <aquarius> true, but then I can't test it because I don't have the upgraded latex packages (see discussions previously), so I'll just have to take it on trust, but OK :)
[10:40] <nisshh> ah ok
[10:40] <nisshh> thats fine
[10:40] <aquarius> so if I push broken latex, I'll break trunk for everyone until that's fixed. You're OK with that?
[10:40] <nisshh> no it wont
[10:41] <nisshh> itll only break make if you link it in and problems occure
[10:41] <nisshh> a simple .tex file not linked in will cause no problems
[10:41] <nisshh> aquarius, can i suggest you grab the latest trunk and inside create a dir called 'desktopcouch' or something
[10:42] <nisshh> and put your chapter in there
[10:42] <nisshh> much cleaner that way
[10:45] <aquarius> ah, OK, so I shouldn't link it in. No worried :)
[10:46] <nisshh> aquarius, yeah, its probably just safer if you dont link it in until one of us who knows latex better can check it over and make sure it has everything it needs.
[10:49] <aquarius> have pushed revno 92 which contains the chapter thus far (not linked anywhere else)
[10:50] <nisshh> ok
[10:50] <nisshh> ill have a look
[10:51] <nisshh> aquarius, see stuff like the double quotes? that has to be latexified :)
[10:52] <nisshh> that would have cause problems during make
[10:52] <nisshh> caused*
[10:52] <aquarius> what? god almighty.
[10:53] <nisshh> aquarius, yeah, in latex a pair of double quotes has to be like this: ``''
[10:53] <aquarius> hahaha party like it's 1985
[10:53] <nisshh> otherwise latex chucks a fit
[10:53] <nisshh> yeah
[10:54] <nisshh> aquarius, there are various symbols and chars that latex doesnt like, for example: _ $ &
[10:54] <aquarius> I also have a question. The app I'm building in the chapter has a bunch of stuff that isn't actually relevant to desktopcouch, so there's little point in putting the source code for the whole app in the book, since it'd waste space. So...what should I do? Should the book just reference a branch on LP?
[10:54] <nisshh> for thos a backslash before them is required
[10:54] <nisshh> those*
[10:55] <nisshh> hmmm
[10:55] <ChrisWoollard> Morning, aquarius. I was actually going to ask you how it was going this morning. But you weren't one when i thought about it. Well done for beating me to it.
[10:55] <nisshh> aquarius, which code sections were you thinking of that werent relevant?
[10:56] <aquarius> nisshh, the app is a very (very very very) simple DVD cataloguer. It's a quickly app. So everything that displays a window, that does gtk, that displays the about box, etc, is totally irrelevant to the chapter. All the desktopcouch code is in one file called "backend.py", which is the one discussed in the chapter
[10:57] <nisshh> ah i see
[10:59] <nisshh> aquarius, i would say exclude the Quickly generated code and just present it as if your adding your code into a vanilla Quickly app
[10:59] <nisshh> know what i mean?
[11:00] <nisshh> so at the start just tell the user to create a new Quickly app and reference that chapter for that and then tell the reader that all the following code is to be added to the existing stuff
[11:00] <aquarius> nisshh, sort of, but then there's the glade file, etc. If I put enough of the app into the book that you can build the app using nothing more than the book and quickly itself, there'll be a bunch of code in the chapter which is irrelevant and will bulk out the chapter unnecessarily, in my opinion.
[11:00] <nisshh> true
[11:01] <aquarius> people shouldn't have to type a glade file in; I should not have to write a whole thing instructing them what to do in glade :)
[11:01] <nisshh> thats very true
[11:02] <nisshh> aquarius, can i suggest you post to the list about this? i think we need others input on how to tackle this issue
[11:03] <aquarius> sure thing
[11:03] <nisshh> as far as i can think, there is no easy way of getting the user to use Quickly *and* teach them desktopcouch in the same chapter without telling them exactly what to do in glade
[11:03] <aquarius> unless we say: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-developer-manual/desktopcouch-dvd-thingy
[11:03] <aquarius> which I think is reasonable, myself.
[11:04] <aquarius> and having the code for all the apps in LP is a godo idea anyway!
[11:04] <aquarius> but I will lay this out in the mail.
[11:04] <nisshh> yeah
[11:05] <nisshh> aquarius, a good idea, but it would force a rearranging of the chapters (again) because the bzr/launchpad chapter is currently after yours :)
[11:06] <nisshh> and tbh, the bzr/launchpad chapter *needs* to be last
[11:06] <nisshh> since its all about releasing your app,etc
[11:06] <aquarius> I really think that explaining a bunch of glade bollocks in my chapter is not a valuable use of space. :)
[11:07] <nisshh> agreed
[11:07] <aquarius> we don't need to explain the bzr stuff. Just tell people "type this command to get the code for this app. You don't have to care what it means. If you do care, read the bzr chapter."
[11:07] <nisshh> but i for one, cannot easily think of a way around that
[11:07] <nisshh> true
[11:07] <nisshh> maybe just reference the bzr chapter when doing that stuff then
[13:05] <aquarius> nisshh, email sent as requested, so we'll see what else comes of it :)
[13:56] <nisshh> aquarius, ok, cool
[23:52]  * jasono is away: I'm busy