[00:16] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 468 for the week May 30 - June 5, 2016 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue468
[00:43] <sethj> pleia2, Ask Ubuntu is having another moderator election. Nominations only last a week. any way we could get it in the newsletter after the fact?
[00:49] <pleia2> sethj: unfortunately not, we can't retract the mailing list posts and stuff
[00:49] <pleia2> why such a short nominations period? :(
[00:50] <pleia2> people may be on vacation, especially since it's summer-ish!
[00:51] <sethj> hmm, that's a good point. I dunno, that's just the way they all work..
[00:52] <sethj> Usually we have them in February..
[00:52] <sethj> pleia2, no chance we could at least edit the wiki page then?
[01:05] <pleia2> sethj: please don't, it changes history and unless it's a small typo or something I don't like altering the wiki after we've published
[01:06] <pleia2> sethj: maybe have an ubuntu member with a blog post to the planet instead?
[01:06] <pleia2> we can also post something on fridge.ubuntu.com
[01:07] <pleia2> for fridge you just send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with the Subject as the title and the body of the email of what we should post
[01:07] <pleia2> I just got back from a trip so my house has no food, off to remedy that
[01:08] <sethj> pleia2, yep we have a planet post planned. Thanks for the tip about the fridge! I'll do that. No biggie about the newsletter, I should have been more on top of it.
[01:08] <sethj> you go get something to eat! :)


[05:33] <StevenK> RAOF: Finally got around to filing a bug.
[05:33] <RAOF> StevenK: About what in particular?
[05:34] <StevenK> RAOF: My Nvidia display corruption, remember?
[05:35] <RAOF> Oh. That one :)
[05:36] <RAOF> So many bugs!
[08:50] <xnox> so, I have uploaded an SRU and it has been accepted into -proposed, but one bug # was not mentioned in the changelog, and has not been mentioned in the changes and therefore is not in the sru-report. Is there any way to mark that bug as fix-committed and get the same comment and ideally manually add it to the sru report?
[08:51] <xnox> bug 946758
[08:51] <xnox> is part of the mdadm sru.
[09:04] <tkamppeter> I havesome problems with a new Intel HD graphics PC
[09:06] <tkamppeter> The mobo has only HDMI and DisplayPort output, but xrandr shows also a VGA output which is limited to 1024x768 and fully automatic startup falls aways into 1024x768.
[09:07] <tkamppeter> How can I makethe login screen 1920x1080?
[10:23] <ev> mpt: it does seem suspicious that the 12.04 and 12.10 lines are so closely mirroring one another http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[10:25] <mpt> ev, it's a 2-or-3-day trend now, so that rules out a mistake in calculating from the day fraction, right?
[10:26] <mpt> (Would be a lot easier to see this if there was only one data point per day, ahem)
[10:27] <ev> mpt: there is only one data point per day. Mouse over the graph
[10:27] <ev> but yes, I still need to fix the axis
[10:27] <mpt> ev, sorry, I meant axis tick mark
[10:28] <mpt> ev, so in order from source to destination, possibilities: (a) fixes in Q, and to a lesser extent SRUs in 12.04, really have made Ubuntu more reliable the past couple of days
[10:28] <mpt> (b) something changed in the client the past few days (did it?)
[10:28] <mpt> (c) there's a date-specific problem that makes the client less likely to report errors
[10:28] <ev> b> nope
[10:29] <mpt> (d) there's a network problem between clients and the data center
[10:29] <mpt> (3) there's a date-specific problem that makes the server less likely to accept error reports
[10:29] <mpt> s/3/e/
[10:29] <ev> yeah, I think we need more data before we know which of these it is
[10:29] <mpt> (f) something changed in the server the past few days (no, since there hasn't been a rollout)
[10:29] <ev> if you turn off the 12.10 line, the 12.04 line shows quite a bit more variability
[10:30] <ev> (you can click the circles in the top right)
[10:30] <mpt> It's smaller than the drop from the 19th to the 20th
[10:31] <ev> yeah, true
[10:31] <mpt> so I concur with the need for more data :-)
[12:46] <Sweetsha1k> mpt: did you get my reply wrt fonts in libreoffice btw?
[12:47] <mpt> Sweetshark, yes thank you. I'm planning to discuss it further today.
[12:53] <mdeslaur> infinity: FYI, I'm stealing your mono merge to get a security fix
[12:54] <Sweetshark> mpt: great
[12:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: Sure, it's a simple merge, go nuts.
[12:55] <infinity> mdeslaur: Or I could do it right now.
[12:56] <infinity> mdeslaur: If you don't want TILM. :P
[12:56] <mdeslaur> infinity: I'm uploading it as we speak
[12:56] <infinity> mdeslaur: Alrighty.
[12:56] <mdeslaur> infinity: but I'm using your gpg key, so you'll still be TIL :)
[12:56] <infinity> mdeslaur: Suuuure you are.
[12:56] <mdeslaur> hehe :)
[12:57] <infinity> Thanks for the reminder that I need to get that change committed to Debian, though.
[12:57] <infinity> We really shouldn't be carrying the delta.
[14:19] <smoser> jodh, i have a upstart job named 'cloud-config', is it silly/wrong/ok that that job would emit 'cloud-config' ?
[14:20] <jodh> smoser: that's fine. Make sure you include 'emits cloud-config" in the job to ensure 'initctl check-config' works of course.
[14:21] <smoser> to ensure?
[14:24] <jodh> smoser: it means that you'll get sane results from initctl2dot (and it means that 'initctl show-config' is parseable too).
[14:24] <smoser> ok, thank you.
[14:24] <smoser> 'emit cloud-config' added.
[14:25] <smoser> err.. emits
[14:31] <smoser> jodh, SpamapS i wonder if either of you have any experience with 'runit'
[14:32] <smoser> it seems it doesn't interact well with upstart if installed via cloud-init.
[14:33] <smoser> i run an instance with http://paste.ubuntu.com/1113891/ as userdata.
[14:33] <SpamapS> smoser: there are two components of runit. One of them is a pid 1 replacement, and that definitely does not work with upstart
[14:33] <smoser> and then it seems to stop boot once runit is installed.  --verbose log at http://paste.ubuntu.com/1113895/
[14:34] <smoser> oh. wow.
[14:34] <smoser> i didn't realize it was a pid 1 replacement.
[14:34] <SpamapS> well the other bit is just a daemon
[14:34] <SpamapS> smoser: in the past it did a dpkg-divert of /sbin/init
[14:35] <SpamapS> smoser: but I think the one installed there is the "safe" one
[14:35] <SpamapS> smoser: but looks like nobody has tested it on Ubuntu in a while ;)
[14:35] <SpamapS> grep: /etc/inittab: No such file or directory
[14:36] <smoser> yeah, i saw that bug figured it was just the postinst script not working right.
[14:36] <smoser> but basically the install of it stops further events from happening.
[14:36] <smoser> ie, my cloud-final.conf never runs.
[14:37] <smoser> SpamapS, you interested in looking at a system really quick? (i'm fine if the answer is no)
[14:37] <smoser><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:39] <SpamapS> smoser: yeah I'll poke it. This feels like bug triage to me. :)
[14:39]  * SpamapS plans on spending all day on triage to help us catch up
[14:40] <SpamapS> smoser: security groups
[14:40] <smoser> SpamapS, ? you should be able to get in
[14:40] <SpamapS> hanging at connecting
[14:41] <xnox> slangasek: bug #946758
[14:41] <xnox> slangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/mdadm
[14:41] <smoser> SpamapS, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1113904/
[14:42] <smoser> i can get in from here.
[14:42] <smoser> that is weird.
[14:44] <ScottK> barry: Bug #1029640 looks to me like a good one to get fixed before 12.04.1.  Checking to see if you agree?
[14:45] <SpamapS> smoser: totally. I'm bouncing off my ec2 instance in us-west-1 and its working
[14:48] <smoser> SpamapS, thanks.
[14:52] <xnox> infinity: wanna talk about e2fsprogs? =)
[14:55] <barry> ScottK: looking
[14:55] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:00] <barry> ScottK: yes, it would be nice to have a test case for the sru
[15:00] <ScottK> That's what I'm waiting for before I upload.
[15:11] <infinity> xnox: Not really, but I suppose we should. ;)
[15:12] <xnox> infinity: lol =))))
[15:12] <infinity> xnox: Make me some coffee, please, I'll be with you shortly.
[15:12] <xnox> infinity: ok. here or mumble?
[15:14] <infinity> IRC's fine.  Let me go get some waking up done.
[15:24] <ScottK> You can tell a spec's going well when the diff is:
[15:24] <ScottK> - Work items for quantal-alpha-3:
[15:24] <ScottK> + Work items for ubuntu-12.10-beta-1:
[15:27] <infinity> ScottK: Oh, regarding our bug log argument.  If you're happy with better trumping perfect for now, poke me on the weekend when I'm not hip-deep in glibc, and we can make backports less sad.
[15:27] <ScottK> infinity: Great.  I'll try to remember to do that (being ancient and all, no promises)
[15:27] <infinity> ScottK: It's actually fairly trivial to go the easy route (as in, no code changes, just a quick tweak to chroots, times X releases, times Y arches)
[15:28] <ScottK> Cool.
[15:28] <infinity> At least, assuming that pins can override NotAutomatic's anti-pin.
[15:28] <infinity> If not, then we need to think harder about it.  Or try to implement perfection.
[15:29] <infinity> But, my assumption is that pinning the pocket to 500 will override the 100 it's getting automagically.
[15:29] <infinity> We'll experiment and see a bit later.
[15:29] <ScottK> Great.  Have fun with the glibc.
[15:30] <ScottK> It'd be trading unusable for suboptimal, so it's not a hard choice.
[15:34] <xnox> ScottK: well, tbh it has more progress implementation wise than it ever had...
[15:35] <ScottK> xnox: Certanly.  I wasn't meaning to pick on anyone.
[15:35] <ScottK> I just thought it was ironic.
[15:35] <dobey> barry: is libpeas stuff using python3 yet? or do you have a timeframe for that?
[15:35] <xnox> plus we did mile-stones before the schedule got changed (e.g. the alpha-3 got moved by -1 week)
[15:36] <xnox> ScottK: yeah it is funny though =)
[15:36] <barry> dobey: afaik, libpeas should be good to go
[15:36] <dobey> barry: are gedit/rhythmbox/etc using it with python3 already then?
[15:37] <barry> dobey: those clients afaik have not yet been ported
[15:38] <dobey> barry: will rhythmbox be soon? our plug-in for it is in python, so wondering when i need to get it working under python3 by
[15:39] <barry> dobey: it's not the next thing on my list, and i'm pretty well booked up until mid-aug.  any way i can help you or someone else to take that on?
[15:40] <dobey> not sure, i don't really have time to do it either. :-/
[15:43] <barry> dobey: yeah.  i'd love to see some community contribution around this, but i'm not sure how to help that happen
[15:44] <dobey> not sure exactly either, at the moment. :-/
[15:46] <dobey> need to get lunch now though. bbiab
[21:32] <oly_> hi, got a small packaging issue, i am packaging a mixed python / c program got everything working fine but i get an error complaining the .pyc files where included how do i stop dpkg-buildpackage creating these ?


[00:09] <IdleOne> dinner
[00:10] <Pici> bleh
[01:55] <funkyHat> Is calling people out on the CoC really ok, considering they may not have even read it, let alone signed it?
[01:56]  * funkyHat gently pokes IdleOne
[01:56] <bazhang> well, its Spacey
[01:56] <funkyHat> of course I may not be in posession of all the facts in this case
[01:57] <bazhang> not many facts in that debate
[01:58] <IdleOne> funkyHat: sup dude ?
[01:58] <IdleOne> not signing the CoC does not mean that they don't have to abide by the channel rules
[01:59] <bazhang> triple negative!
[01:59] <IdleOne> -ot is different I get that but the channel can be different and still follow the rules
[02:00] <funkyHat> IdleOne: the channel rules sure
[02:00] <tsimpson> obeying the CoC noted in the guidelines
[02:00] <funkyHat> Oh drat!
[02:00] <IdleOne> funkyHat: the CoC is a way of thinking, not a set of rules. They clearly state that respectfulness is a must at ALL times
[02:01] <IdleOne> s/they/it
[02:01] <IdleOne> I know I am being a little bit of a pain about this but -ot can be so much of a better place
[02:02] <tsimpson> -ot *is* far too lax
[02:03] <IdleOne> -ot in my mind is supposed to be a place where people can join and discuss a variety of topics intelligently. I think we can do that without the name calling and chasing out every person who comes in with a different point of view
[02:06] <IdleOne> funkyHat: btw I love spacey too. I consider him a friend but I can't let my friends slide. wrong is wrong and I will call it out every time I see it
[07:39] <bazhang> heads up on jungli
[11:15] <bazhang> is it /mode #channel +e to see the exemptions?
[11:16] <ikonia> I believe so, I've just removed a good few of my bans, for some reason ubottu is not updating BT with all the ones I removed though
[11:16] <bazhang> or simply /mode
[11:16] <bazhang> whoops
[11:16] <bazhang>  /mode #channel e
[11:36] <bazhang> I'll clear the exemptions if someone can confirm either of the above (not all , obviously, just the older ones)
[11:48] <topyli> i muted alabd on -ot, will think about him again tomorrow. if i forget, feel free to remove the +q
[11:48] <topyli> not that his contribution will be missed
[11:54] <ikonia> to be honest, I think we have to be very careful if he is writing a book
[11:54] <ikonia> he's using random peoples opinions as fact in a book (assuming he's telling the truth))
[12:06] <bazhang> tsimpson, you around?
[12:12] <ikonia> 12:11 -!- poprazi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu []
[12:12] <ikonia> same guy again
[12:13] <bazhang> yep. but not trolled of late
[12:13] <ikonia> what's the format for the indent ban in the new irc-server
[12:13] <ikonia> is it still i=ident!nick!@host
[12:13] <bazhang> I had a lengthy PM with him, and he knows any more of the 'ubuntards' or 'how to fix my redhat' will not be acceptable
[12:14] <ikonia> yet he's just come in and said fuck suse
[12:14] <bazhang> whoa missed that
[12:14] <ikonia> need to work out the ident ban
[12:14] <bazhang> nice catch, missed that
[12:15] <bazhang>  what about<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:15] <ikonia> could someone confirm the correct format for ident specific ban for ircd-7
[12:15] <ikonia> bazhang: I thought that would be fine, however I learnt the other day that bzhellz last part isn't unique to the user
[12:16] <ikonia> only the ident is
[12:16] <bazhang> just caught that from ##linux
[12:16] <ikonia> however he's not only the only problem user from bshellz, I think it's time we looked at banning the same way as the freenode gateway
[12:16] <ikonia> I may put it on the agenda for the next council meeting
[12:16] <bazhang> ikonia, not sure then, thought gateway users were getting a cloak , according to freenode wallop
[12:17] <bazhang> though perhaps a different issue entirely, never mind me
[12:17] <ikonia> I've not read the new stuff on the freenode webchat yet, I just meant in theory
[12:34] <bazhang> ikonia, jayne is active now
[12:34] <ikonia> jayne: can you confirm the correct format for an ident ban please ?
[12:35] <jayne> like /mode ##channel +b *!*ident@* you mean?
[12:35] <ikonia> no as in ident@
[12:36] <ikonia> eg: nick = ikonia, ident = mattd, host = unafilliated/ikonia
[12:36] <ikonia> so I'd want to ban ikonia i=mattd@unafilliated/ikonia
[12:36] <ikonia> I want the mattd part
[12:36] <jayne> want it from what?
[12:37] <jayne> if you want to ban anyone using the ident of mattd, then *!*mattd@*
[12:37] <ikonia> should it not be *!mattd@* or is *!*mattd@* right ?
[12:38] <jayne> if you know identd is in use (unlike yourself, for example), then you can drop the *
[12:38] <jayne> for example, I have an ident running, so there's no ~
[12:38] <ikonia> that's simpler than I remember it, thank you jayne
[12:38] <ikonia> perfect
[12:38] <jayne> you don't have an identd running, so you get ~mattd instead
[12:38] <jayne> yeah, we got rid of the i=/n= thing when we left hyperion
[12:39] <jpds> Do people still use identds?
[12:39] <jayne> jpds: sometimes. I mostly consider it useful for cloaked gateways
[12:39] <jayne> and shell providers that we know about
[12:39] <jayne> ... basically any time we know the users can't fake the ident
[12:40] <jpds> Oh, yeah.
[12:40] <ikonia> odd, a user called text just pm'd me to tell me he saw my real name when he whois'd me and did I know it was showing my name
[12:41] <ikonia> and was I "ok" with that
[12:50] <jpds> ikonia: Everyone is anonymous on the Internest.
[12:52] <tsimpson> bazhang: I am now
[13:00] <bazhang> tsimpson, hi
[13:01] <tsimpson> hi
[13:01] <bazhang> just wanted confirmation on removing exemptions; should be /mode #channel e to see them?
[13:01] <tsimpson> yes, but you need to be +o to see them
[13:01] <bazhang> then /mode #channel -eeee to remove them
[13:01] <bazhang> okay thanks tsimpson
[13:01] <tsimpson> yeah
[13:02] <tsimpson> one 'e' for every exempt up to 4 per line
[13:02] <bazhang> just getting the -ops-monitor warnings of late, wanted to see if that would reduce or eliminate them
[13:02] <bazhang> okay
[13:02] <tsimpson> I cleared out the +e list a day or two ago, didn't make much difference
[13:03] <bazhang> oh right
[13:03] <bazhang> well nice to have the knowledge nonetheless (will note down this conversation)
[13:03] <tsimpson> it should probably go in the operator guide document too
[13:04] <bazhang> good point
[13:38] <popey> !login
[13:38] <popey> bah
[13:38] <popey> i am such a numpty
[13:38] <popey> @login
[13:38] <popey> @btlogin
[13:39]  * jussi hugs popey
[13:39] <popey> got a fool in -uk being a bit of a troll, wondered if he was known
[13:39] <popey> Russnix
[13:42] <jussi> popey: yeah, i noticed. I havent seen him before
[13:42] <popey> me neither
[13:42] <jussi> popey: you know you can do @bansearch russnix
[13:42] <popey> handy
[13:42] <popey> thanks
[13:42] <jussi> very :)
[13:43] <jussi> yw
[13:44] <popey> i get no results searching via the web interface for his nick, but @bansearch russnix returns two results. odd?
[13:44] <popey> or am I 'doing it wrong'
[13:45] <jussi> no
[13:45] <jussi> because @bansearch uses ip
[13:46] <jussi> oh wait
[13:46] <jussi> no
[13:46] <jussi> its because he is using the gateway thats been banforwarded to proxy users
[13:47] <jussi> nothing to worry about - if you logged in using web chat it would be same
[13:50] <popey> no, i'm not worrying about that, more the discrepancy between bansearch showing stuff and the website not
[13:53] <jussi> popey: yeah, its simple, just like I can switch nick and still be on the same host. @bansearch searches the host, not the nick
[13:53] <jussi> it looks at the user, pulls their host and searches that
[14:43] <h00k> !ping
[14:43] <h00k> okay.
[15:35] <h00k> Why is autobleh telling me Fooey, Not Opped. I haven't done anything in a while :(
[15:37] <gnomefreak> h00k: the new servers?
[15:37] <gnomefreak> i havent tried it in a while
[15:44] <h00k> gnomefreak: the new servers?
[15:44] <gnomefreak> h00k: sorry dont remember but it was a while ago
[15:45] <gnomefreak> a couple of months but they just updated webchat maybe that is the issue
[15:45] <h00k> I think I figured it out, I had accidentally done /opme on an ircd server running from localhost and didn't have permissions
[15:45] <h00k> and autobleh still rememberd I wanted to op and was echoing that in channels I am in
[15:45] <h00k> I think since I've opped, it has since forgotten.
[15:46] <Pici> You could try unloading and reloading it?
[15:46] <h00k> I think I'm set, I saw:
[15:46] <h00k> 09:44 We've been opped
[15:46] <h00k> 09:44 Expiring action: "I've wanted to op h00k in #arg on  since<PHONE_NUMBER>" because of time
[15:46] <h00k> but it says expiring so I am guessing it is forgetting
[15:50] <h00k> there, I unloaded and reloaded.
[20:26] <RudyValencia> Hi, I was having an intermittent connection earlier, and it has now stabilized. Please allow me back into #ubuntu and #ubuntu-server.
[20:26] <Pici> RudyValencia: sure, one moment.
[20:26] <RudyValencia> Thanks.
[20:26] <Pici> RudyValencia: You're all set. :)
[20:27] <RudyValencia> Thanks.
[20:33] <h00k> !bestbot could alias with !best
[20:33] <Pici> !bestbot
[20:33] <Pici> !best
[20:33] <Pici> !-best
[20:34] <Pici> !bestbot is <alias> best
[20:34] <Pici> h00k: ding!
[20:34] <h00k> !bestbot
[20:34] <h00k> ta-da! Pici, you rock.
[21:27] <h00k> !dma
[21:28] <h00k> in 6.06 ?!
[21:28] <guntbert> hi, !dma seems to need an update :-)
[21:29] <Tm_T> how?
[21:29] <h00k> guntbert: you /just/ missed my comment about it :)
[21:30] <Tm_T> what would be the new info?
[21:30] <guntbert> h00k: ah, I should have known you would spot it  - thx for the support just now in #ubuntu
[21:30] <guntbert> !dma
[21:31] <h00k> 'enabled in 6.06' fantastic, but what about the latter?
[21:32] <guntbert> have a nice time with it :-) -- bye
[21:32] <h00k> !dma is Direct Memory Access/Addressing.  It makes hardware transfer data faster, and is supported by most systems since 2002.
[21:32] <h00k> for more info, etc, etc.
[21:32] <h00k> !dma is Direct Memory Access/Addressing.  It makes hardware transfer data faster, and is supported by most systems since 2002.  For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DMA
[21:32] <h00k> there we go.
[21:44] <bazhang> should be !dma is <reply> etc etc ;
[21:45] <knome> !dma is <reply> Direct Memory Access/Addressing.  It makes hardware transfer data faster, and is supported by most systems since 2002.  For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DMA
[21:45] <h00k> yeah. that.
[21:45] <knome> bazhang, there you go
[21:45] <bazhang> !dma is <reply> Direct Memory Access/Addressing.  It makes hardware transfer data faster, and is supported by most systems since 2002.  For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DMA
[21:46] <bazhang> whoops
[21:46] <knome> !dma
[21:46] <knome> har :)
[21:46] <bazhang> any changes needed?
[22:02] <h00k> is running as root supported? I know changing the root password is not
[22:02] <bazhang> like !noroot? !rootirc ?
[22:03] <h00k> no, like, someone in #ubuntu running as root user, apparently
[22:04] <bazhang> should use sudo -i afaik


[15:59] <rbasak> o/
[16:01] <sil2100> o/
[16:01] <bdmurray> o/
[16:01] <seb128> hey, I'm around but will need to leave early
[16:03] <sil2100> Who was supposed to chair today?
[16:03] <sil2100> There seems to be no mention of that on the agenda
[16:04] <teward> *burps* wasnt me thats all i know
[16:04] <utkarsh21021> \o
[16:05] <teward> *sips coffee*
[16:05] <teward> i'm also here via phone so slower reply is guaranteed but i'm here
[16:05] <utkarsh21021> sil2100: for past couple of months, I've been chairing except for the last one or two times when rbasak chaired ;)
[16:05] <utkarsh21021> I can chair this time, too
[16:05] <utkarsh21021> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[16:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:05:56 UTC.  The chair is utkarsh21021.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:06] <sil2100> huh, somehow I remember chairing not so long ago
[16:06]  * kanashiro[m] waves
[16:06] <sil2100> Since I was fixing up dates on the Agenda as part of my post-chairing updates
[16:06] <utkarsh21021> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[16:07] <utkarsh21021> #topic Core Dev Applications
[16:07] <utkarsh21021> #subtopic Nick Rosbrook (enr0n)
[16:07] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: hi! \o
[16:07] <enr0n> o/
[16:07] <utkarsh21021> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/enr0n/CoreDeveloperApplication
[16:08] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: can you please introduce yourself?
[16:08] <sil2100> o/
[16:08] <enr0n> Hi! I'm Nick Rosbrook (enr0n). I am a Canonical employee, and have been working on the Foundations team for just over a year now.
[16:09] <enr0n> I live in Vermont, USA :)
[16:10] <rbasak> o/
[16:11] <rbasak> Hi!
[16:11] <teward> o/
[16:11] <rbasak> Have you done any merges apart from procps and systemd?
[16:12] <enr0n> I recently worked on one for pcre2, because I was TIL, but it turned out we were able to sync because the original FTBFS issue had gone away.
[16:12] <rbasak> Have you been involved in any transitions?
[16:12] <utkarsh21021> uh? is it a no-show?
[16:12] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: hellu? are you around?
[16:12] <teward> (rbasak stole my question lol)
[16:13] <rbasak> utkarsh21021: I can see enr0n's messages
[16:13] <teward> utkarsh21021: unignore everyone on your ignores
[16:13] <enr0n> Yes, did you not see my last message?
[16:13] <bdmurray> I did
[16:13] <teward> utkarsh21021: then fetch me coffee :P
[16:13] <enr0n> Ah, ok. I will continue with rbasak's question in the mean time.
[16:13] <utkarsh21021> I mean if they were around, they'd have gotten back the first time :P
[16:13] <utkarsh21021> there!
[16:14] <utkarsh21021> rbasak is in a rush, I didn't even open the stage to questions
[16:14] <enr0n> I have not worked on a "traditional" transition. A large part of my work is centered around systemd, and while systemd has a large number of revdeps, it does not trigger the type of transitions that I normally think of. E.g. new toolchain versions, soname bumps/ABI changes, etc/
[16:15] <utkarsh21021> damn my IRC client
[16:15] <sil2100> enr0n: I like it that you have endorsements from your most frequent sponsors. But I only see a few sponsorships from people from outside Foundations. Did you cooperate with other non-team-member uploaders on any uploads/changes to Ubuntu?
[16:16] <bdmurray> Does my being on the QA team count?
[16:16] <utkarsh21021> no :P
[16:17] <enr0n> sil2100: During my +1 maintenance work, I typically put a note in #ubuntu-devel to see if anyone is interested in sponsoring (after also making sure the LP is the the sponsore queue, but that does not usually work). I also try to forward bugs to debian early, and often the Debian maintainer will pick up a change of mine, and it syncs to Ubuntu before a Ubuntu upload has happened
[16:18] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: another question: why did you not get PPU for systemd, et al or perhaps a packageset?
[16:18] <utkarsh21021> why straight to core-dev?
[16:18] <sil2100> enr0n: ok, thanks!
[16:18] <bdmurray> I'm pretty sure the Foundations team doesn't have any packagesets defined
[16:19]  * rbasak waits to ask more questions
[16:19] <enr0n> utkarsh21021: While I do focus on systemd, I am also responsible for a lot of ubuntu-release-upgrader work. And since I am on the Foundations team, it would be more helpful if I could generally work on packages in main, and not just systemd et al.
[16:20] <teward> (by the time i finish writing my questions rbasak or sil or utkarsh already ask the question so i'mma just sit and wait to ask any questions I have others don't ask)
[16:20] <utkarsh21021> hahahaha
[16:20] <seb128> sorry but I've to step out for ~30min, don't wait on my for reply/vote, I will catch up if I'm back before the end of meeting otherwise follow up via email if needed
[16:20] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: ack, thanks
[16:21] <utkarsh21021> I still feel getting upload rights to systemd and ubuntu-release-upgrader would have helped inspire some confidence :)
[16:21] <utkarsh21021> rbasak: go!
[16:21] <rbasak> What's the process you're using to do merges?
[16:22] <bdmurray> utkarsh21021: Would it though? The questions I've seen have been about merges and transitions.
[16:24] <enr0n> I first learned the grab-merge workflow for basic merges, but I have recently started getting familiar with the git-ubuntu merge workflow (while the pcre2 merge ended up being a sync, I used it to practice the git-ubuntu workflow). Specifically with systemd however, I use a typical `git merge debian/<tag>` workflow.
[16:24] <rbasak> Do you check to see if any delta still being applied is still needed?
[16:24] <sil2100> I think Nick is doing a lot of work around +1 maintenance, for which I think having a core-dev is rather useful
[16:25] <utkarsh21021> bdmurray: I mean, in general, yes, it'd have been good to see a track record of uploads to the archive. If they're in good shape, it's a big +1.
[16:25] <rbasak> Since you have only two merges uploaded (I appreciate one more was a sync), I looked at the procps one.
[16:25] <utkarsh21021> fair & noted!
[16:25] <enr0n> Yes, I make an effort to reduce Ubuntu delta whenever possible.
[16:26] <rbasak> In the procps merge, it looks like rm_conffile on /etc/sysctl.d/protect-links.conf was no longer needed as the focal release pocket had a higher version.
[16:27] <rbasak> And debian/compat 11 is being added but isn't mentioned in the changelog
[16:29] <enr0n> rbasak: Thanks for that feedback. That was my first month on the job and I am confident that I have learned a lot since then.
[16:29] <rbasak> Sure, it's not a major thing.
[16:29] <rbasak> But it is a substantial part of your application here :-/
[16:30] <kanashiro[m]> enr0n: have you touched seeds by any chance?
[16:30] <utkarsh21021> the one we sow?
[16:30] <utkarsh21021> at some point, everyone has, kanashiro :P
[16:31] <enr0n> kanashiro[m]: I think so, but I cannot remember. Maybe when we removed acpi-support?
[16:32] <rbasak> enr0n: have you done any SRUs?
[16:33] <utkarsh21021> rbasak: lots of them mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/enr0n/CoreDeveloperApplication#My_involvement
[16:33] <enr0n> rbasak: yes, I have done several. See the "SRU" section here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/enr0n/CoreDeveloperApplication#Examples_of_my_work_.2F_Things_I.27m_proud_of
[16:33] <utkarsh21021> 12 to be precise
[16:33] <rbasak> Ah, sorry. I didn't see any on the sponsorship miner that didn't look like false positives for some reason
[16:34] <enr0n> No worries
[16:36] <rbasak> I remain concerned that your range of experience seems to be quite narrow.
[16:36] <rbasak> And that when I dived into a random one, what I found wasn't great.
[16:37] <enr0n> Into a random what, exactly?
[16:37] <rbasak> Sorry, s/one/example/
[16:37] <rbasak> The procps merge
[16:38] <bdmurray> Isn't some of that on the sponsor who reviewed and uploaded it?
[16:38] <rbasak> Indeed
[16:39] <jawn-smith> That might have been me...
[16:39] <utkarsh21021> :P
[16:39] <rbasak> The thing is, if we discount that, then there are fewer examples to look at.
[16:40] <rbasak> Like are we saying "look I did a merge once, surely that's good enough for core dev?"
[16:40] <teward> rbasak raises a good point.
[16:40] <kanashiro[m]> you could also have proded someone outside of your team to endorse your application, for instance Simon Quigley (some uploads sponsored by them)
[16:41] <rbasak> IMHO, jumping direcly to core dev makes sense here, but equally that means that the application should be better than average.
[16:41] <bdmurray> I haven't done a systemd merge but don't imagince that's particularly easy.
[16:41] <rbasak> Sure. But a systemd merge is a bit special, and sounds like it uses a process that won't work for other packages.
[16:41] <teward> kanashiro[m]: given that Simon's busy as heck and owes me about 100 things Lubuntu Council related I would sooner drag Simon through fixing and sponsoring the Lubuntu stuff he owes me and the Lubuntu Team before putting more general sponsor work on Simon to work on :p
[16:41] <rbasak> Which is fine, but I'd like to see a broad understanding here, and a systemd merge cannot show it.
[16:41] <teward> (i.e. Lubuntu Team related tasks)
[16:41] <rbasak> This is the kind of situation where a systemd PPU might make more sense
[16:42] <teward> rbasak: i think then that brings a bigger question that I have: what PPU do they need?  SystemD or more than that?
[16:42] <teward> if there's only one or two more then for them to do regular work then I'm fine with that but once we start getting to a broader range it brings up the question of "scope of rights" and we're back to today
[16:42] <teward> but that's also a requisite that they file a PPU application
[16:43] <teward> right now we're here to act on coredev application, not a PPU application
[16:43] <enr0n> rbasak: In my opinion, the important part of merges is not necessarily what tooling one uses, but there ability to read changelog/git history, test existing delta, etc. While you could say that I do not have significant experience using git-ubuntu (or some other thing) in particular, that does not change the fact that I understand what considerations need to be made during a merge.
[16:43] <bdmurray> +1
[16:44] <rbasak> I don't care what workflow you use, as long as the output is correct.
[16:44] <rbasak> procps was not.
[16:44] <sil2100> I don't use git-ubuntu for merges, and I don't think that made my merges particularly worse. I mean, any mistakes I do I could do either way
[16:44] <rbasak> That's 50% of the merges on this application.
[16:45] <enr0n> rbasak: Yes, that's the point I was trying to make.
[16:46] <rbasak> OK, so in this application, the track record you're presenting does not demonstrate merges done properly, regardless of workflow. Sorry, it just doesn't.
[16:46] <rbasak> So I'm not sure why people are talking about appropriate workflows.
[16:46] <enr0n> (trying to catch up on all the messages while also typing)
[16:46] <bdmurray> Okay, I think we all know rbasak's position now. Does anybody else have questions?
[16:47] <enr0n> rbasak: Sorry, this message is what brought me in that direction: "Sure. But a systemd merge is a bit special, and sounds like it uses a process that won't work for other packages."
[16:48] <rbasak> Oh, OK.
[16:48] <enr0n> rbasak: I took that as a comment against my workflow.
[16:49] <rbasak> What I mean there is that that doesn't really demonstrate how you would merge other packages, if procps is the closest (only) example I have of that to consider as well. I see what you're saying about understanding what is required being more important than workflow, but I can only go on actual examples presented to me.
[16:50] <sil2100> hm, okay, I mean, I treat uploads from an applicant as demonstration of them being able to perform a given task to some extent. Small mistakes, especially if unnoticed by more experienced uploaders, aren't necesarily a bad sign for me, as long as the resulting merge doesn't drop patches or introduce broken changes. And it does represent knowledge of the process, so enough in my eyes to count as a
[16:50] <sil2100> checkbox checked, especially with systemd in mind
[16:51] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: suppose if you were to have a PPU for systemd and u-r-u, would that restrict you in anything except +1? because, I just see systemd all around (SRUs, Merges, Lukas' sponsored uploads, et al
[16:51] <sil2100> But that's just how I see it
[16:51] <rbasak> as long as the resulting merge doesn't drop patches or introduce broken changes> what's important to me is that this bar isn't passed "by accident", as might happen with an insufficiently reviewed MoM suggestion that gets uploaded
[16:54] <enr0n> utkarsh21021: I suppose not in my typical day-to-day, but that doesn't change my intentions.
[16:54] <kanashiro[m]> more work out off systemd and ubuntu-release-upgrader would be appreciated
[16:56] <enr0n> kanashiro[m]: I suppose that's how I view +1 work.
[16:58] <rbasak> +1 work is appreciated, but a catch is that it's quite narrow in some ways (while very broad in the range of packages to touch, of course)
[16:58] <utkarsh21021> any more questions?
[16:58] <rbasak> But core dev is a very wide ACL entry
[16:58] <rbasak> And those things don't fit together well :-/
[16:58] <utkarsh21021> wait, did my client stop again?
[16:58] <teward> utkarsh21021: no, your client and Matrix are just slow as heck
[16:58] <teward> go get an irccloud account :p
[16:59] <utkarsh21021> hah
[16:59] <utkarsh21021> we haven’t started voting, no?
[16:59] <teward> no we haven't
[16:59] <teward> not officially
[16:59] <teward> i don't have any questions that haven't been asked by anyone else
[17:00] <teward> i have literally only 5 minuites left and we're past our meeting time though i think
[17:00] <teward> is there any reason we can't move to voting?
[17:00] <utkarsh21021> should we proceed to vote?
[17:00] <teward> (in 5 minutes I have a call with the CEO and IT Director at my FT job so)
[17:01] <kanashiro[m]> let's vote
[17:01] <utkarsh21021> teward: no fire today?
[17:01] <bdmurray> I'm ready to vote
[17:01] <teward> utkarsh21021: not today no, thank goodness
[17:01] <utkarsh21021> hah, nice
[17:01] <utkarsh21021> #vote Nick Rosbrook to get Core Dev rights
[17:01] <meetingology> Please vote on: Nick Rosbrook to get Core Dev rights
[17:01] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[17:01] <rbasak> -1 reasons to follow
[17:01] <meetingology> -1 reasons to follow received from rbasak
[17:03] <sil2100> +1 Decided to vote as even though Nick is part of my team, I did not endorse him nor am I working closely with him. I see sufficient understanding and involvement in the Ubuntu work, and I see potential in him making a difference with code-dev membership
[17:03] <meetingology> +1 Decided to vote as even though Nick is part of my team, I did not endorse him nor am I working closely with him. I see sufficient understanding and involvement in the Ubuntu work, and I see potential in him making a difference with code-dev membership received from sil2100
[17:04] <sil2100> (+ I have faith in the endorsers of his application)
[17:05] <teward> -1 - reasons to follow (slow to type due to phone IRCing today)
[17:05] <meetingology> -1 - reasons to follow (slow to type due to phone IRCing today) received from teward
[17:05] <bdmurray> +1 as I trust Nick, his judgement and decision making skills. I believe he will continue to look for guidance when uploading packages.
[17:05] <meetingology> +1 as I trust Nick, his judgement and decision making skills. I believe he will continue to look for guidance when uploading packages. received from bdmurray
[17:06] <teward> While I have every confidence in enr0n being able to do SRUs and other +1 work, I don't see enough package coverage in the current set of items to be "enough work" outside of a niche packageset to justify full unrestricted core-dev upload rights.  I also would like to see more work on merges as I don't currently see enough evidence to support suitable merge knowledge regardless of workflow to justify unrestricted upload rights either.
[17:07] <teward> (this doesn't preclude enr0n from reapplying at some point in the future for coredev, but at this time the aforementioned is my reasoning)
[17:08] <teward> and while i have faith in the endorsers, I also want to see some evidence to back up that faith.
[17:08] <teward> and I just don't see it at the moment.
[17:09] <kanashiro[m]> -1, I believe more work on non systemd and ubuntu-release-upgrader packages should be done, also try to find sponsors out off the Foundations team and get an endorsement from them as well (not that Foundations members are not trustworthy, it is a matter to get a different point of view from people who are not working with you everyday). However, I do trust your technical skills and I do believe you should re-apply for core-dev
[17:09] <meetingology> -1, I believe more work on non systemd and ubuntu-release-upgrader packages should be done, also try to find sponsors out off the Foundations team and get an endorsement from them as well (not that Foundations members are not trustworthy, it is a matter to get a different point of view from people who are not working with you everyday). However, I do trust your technical skills and I do believe you should re-apply for core-dev recei
[17:09] <kanashiro[m]> once you have more data to show us.
[17:09] <utkarsh21021> +0; I know this is not the preferred vote of the DMB but this is a hard decision to make. Whilst I trust Nick's work and judgement and their endorsers, the lack of work in other areas (outside systemd and u-r-u) makes it difficult to grant core-dev straight away. I am definitely +1 for PPU and +1 for core-dev once more set of packages are touched and worked on, esp. merges.
[17:09] <meetingology> +0; I know this is not the preferred vote of the DMB but this is a hard decision to make. Whilst I trust Nick's work and judgement and their endorsers, the lack of work in other areas (outside systemd and u-r-u) makes it difficult to grant core-dev straight away. I am definitely +1 for PPU and +1 for core-dev once more set of packages are touched and worked on, esp. merges. received from utkarsh21021
[17:09] <utkarsh21021> #endvote
[17:09] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Nick Rosbrook to get Core Dev rights
[17:09] <meetingology> Votes for: 2, Votes against: 3, Abstentions: 1
[17:09] <meetingology> Motion denied
[17:10] <teward> enr0n: feel free to hit me up as well if you need a sponsor to review things, always happy to help Foundations where it is needed, and though I may not be super active on sponsors just this moment, I do have spare cycles at times through the week to do oneoff sponsors (rather than track ubuntu-sponsors heh)
[17:10] <utkarsh21021> unfortunately, the application hasn't made it through :(
[17:11] <enr0n> teward: Thank you, I appreciate that, and I appreciate your feedback.
[17:11] <rbasak> Much of the work you've been doing looks good, but I don't think there's a wide enough range of experience here to justify jumping straight to core dev. I expect everybody to make mistakes, but I expect the rate of errors from core dev applications to be low, and when considering an application I can only infer the rate from what is presented. Here, we have very little being presented as examples
[17:11] <utkarsh21021> but yes, enr0n, whenever you're doing +1, just reach out to me, too
[17:11] <rbasak> in some areas (eg. package merges), so that doesn't really help with that expectation when there seemed to be issues with one of the two package merges you presented. For someone to go straight to core dev on the Foundations team makes sense, but I think this really needs to come with a stronger application.
[17:11] <utkarsh21021> for sponsorship^
[17:11] <rbasak> To make progress, I suggest continuing to build your track record, particularly in the areas of package merges and transitions. I hope to see you become a core dev soon!
[17:12] <enr0n> utkarsh21021: I will take you up on that this week ;)
[17:13] <enr0n> rbasak: Thank you for your time and feedback
[17:13] <utkarsh21021> enr0n: yes, please. Spam me in DMs
[17:13] <enr0n> And thank you to the rest of the DMB as well.
[17:14] <utkarsh21021> #action Utkarsh to send the mail about today's application
[17:14] <meetingology> ACTION: Utkarsh to send the mail about today's application
[17:14] <utkarsh21021> #endmeeting
[17:14] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 17:14:21 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-02-06-16.05.moin.txt
[17:15] <utkarsh21021> \o
[17:16] <kanashiro[m]> o/


[00:06] <tomreyn> Et86: maybe what you want is systemd.volatile https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/kernel-command-line.html
[00:08] <tomreyn> alternatively "rootflags" or just "ro"
[00:08] <tomreyn> this is for systemd 245, may not apply to your lubuntu release
[00:09] <tomreyn> actually 18.04 LTS' systemd 237 had those already
[00:10] <tomreyn> see systemd-fstab-generator(8)
[00:11] <Et86> Looks like I'm on systemd 237 so that's good
[00:12] <Et86> This looks very nice thanks, I'm already using overlayfs so I'm gonna read more into it to see how they play together and I'll be back in a while
[00:21] <tomreyn> don't blame me if something doesn't work out, i never tried this
[00:22] <Et86> I have a feeling if things don't work out I'll be stuck fixing boot for a few hours so probably won't be able to login to blame you :D
[01:05] <fishcooker> just upgraded to 20.04... just make sure the screensaver disabled before sleeping while updating
[01:05] <fishcooker> it will interrupting the configuration
 @fishcooker [<fishcooker> just upgraded to 20.04... just make sure the screensaver disabled b …], 👍
 why the old screensaver still appear, even i disabled?
 (Photo, 1280x487) https://i.imgur.com/3P8JNlr.jpg my old screensaver still apply too
[12:23] <nichlas> Is it possible to upgrade fron eoan to focal? apt full-update doesn't seem to do anything.
 nichlas,  yes, it is possible. … 1) apt full-update does not exist.  … 2) you are looking for `sudo do-release-upgrade -d`
 @nichlas [<nichlas> Is it possible to upgrade fron eoan to focal? apt full-update doesn't …], do-release-upgrade
 @aptghetto [nichlas,  yes, it is possible. … 1) apt full-update does not exist.  … 2) you are lo …], Sorry , you are faster ....
 :)
[12:28] <nichlas> ok. The full-update instructions was from this page: https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/D/upgrading.html "Appendix D: Upgrading from a previous release"
[12:28] <nichlas> oh... I should have continued the guide :D
[12:28] <nichlas> it actually mentions do-release-upgrade :D
[12:29] <nichlas> thanks guys :D
 I don't see "full-update" there
[12:30] <nichlas> It's the first command line in "Upgrading with command line". I should just have continued following the guide after the picture
[12:30] <nichlas> sorry.. full-upgrade
[12:45] <strobe2020> i've been trying to get access to my own xsession on a remote connection.
[12:45] <strobe2020> there is already an xsession running by another user.
[12:45] <strobe2020> apparently, the startx command can only be run from a virtual console on the host, not remotely.
[12:45] <strobe2020> when i had the user assist me by switching to a virtual console at the host, logging in as me (using a temporary password), then running startx, their own x session on the graphics console crashed.
[12:46] <strobe2020> we tried running both startx as my user (assuming it would open $DISPLAY :1) and 'startx -- :1' but either way it didn't matter; their own user's x session crash and the computer had to be rebooted to restore their desktop environment.
[12:46] <strobe2020> what are we doing wrong? ideally, i just want to remotely log in to the host with my user (which i can do), then start my own x session.
[12:46] <strobe2020> we're running lubuntu 19.10
[14:07] <Ev0luti0n_> Hey guys. Currently having a minor issue here editing the application list.
[14:08] <Ev0luti0n_> I want to edit the application list, so that i am able to start Signal in the system tray by default, by adding the command "signal-desktop --start-in-tray".
[14:09] <Ev0luti0n_> I opened up the "application menu editor", and from there i eventually ended up here: "/usr/share/desktop-directories/lxde-network.directory
[14:09] <Ev0luti0n_> "
[14:11] <Ev0luti0n_> I was hoping to find there the Internet menu application list, from where i could edit the Signal entry. Turns out, that file has no such thing. Nothing but different languages from "Internet menu". I searched around for apps that i could use on the official repo, and there are some for gnome but nothing for LXqt.
[14:11] <Ev0luti0n_> PCFileMAn, apparently let's you edit the applications you want to use there, but i am not sure how can i edit the signal shortcut to include that command.
[14:11] <Ev0luti0n_> Any tips would be appreciated.
 What do you mean by passphrase
 Wep key(network configuration while installing lubuntu 18.04
[21:32] <Munsko> Hello. Somebody know why the log-in screen is different when i close my laptop monitor(a black screen with a minitor flaming and one filed to put passwd) and when i log off from menu?
[21:32] <Munsko> The log in screen in the 2nd case is like the LXQT style of desktop i think
[21:32] <Munsko> But the other one isnt like that, looks like no desk of smth


[11:23] <liam-r> @rbasak Sorry to bother you again but I tried omitting the first "dch -i" in my workflow and still can't get that man page to update. I can see that my change is recorded in util-linux_2.30.1-0ubuntu5_amd.changes but I still get the typo after running dpkg -i with the .deb on my artful system. Maybe I have something set up incorrectly or I'm not actually replacing the version on the artful system? I did track upstream to ke
[11:23] <liam-r> will patch there if it isn't already but I think I'll need to figure this out anyway for future bugs
[11:24] <rbasak> liam-r: you can run "debdiff <old dsc> <new dsc>" to see if your change actually made it into the source package
[11:24] <rbasak> liam-r: can you pastebin that?
[11:32] <liam-r> I messed about a bit so there's 3 files as I added a second changelog entry, I've tested building at all stages https://pastebin.com/8UHQBaHV
[11:32] <liam-r> thanks
[12:08] <liam-r> rbasak I just realized you probably meant to debdiff the .dsc in pbuilder/artful_result but I get some errors when I do that. New paste is at https://pastebin.com/z3Gqxy38 . I need to go back to the day job for a few hours but I'll leave the chat logged in.
[12:17] <rbasak> liam-r: util-linux_2.30.1-0ubuntu5.dsc looks fine to me
[14:41] <liam-r> rbasak: I ran dpkg -x on the generated .deb I've been installing and I can't find "mount.8" anywhere in the contents. Maybe I've been building or installing the wrong thing? There's a mount.txt note in Documentation that says "== Notes to developers ==
[14:41] <liam-r> 	The final solution will be libmount/mount.c as the
[14:41] <liam-r> 	mount(8) command implementation. So, let's keep the
[14:41] <liam-r> 	current mount/* code in maintenance mode and don't try to
[14:41] <liam-r> 	rewrite it :-)
[14:41] <liam-r> "
[14:42] <liam-r> so maybe it's to do with the package rather than my build of it?
[14:46] <rbasak> liam-r: the util-linux source package builds many binary packages with many different names. Are you installing the right one?
[14:47] <rbasak> liam-r: looks like you want mount....deb
[15:02] <liam-r> rbasak: Thanks, that's it. I had also just  thought to mangled the man for fsck and it shows when I install the util-linux deb.
[15:02] <liam-r> As a matter of interest how did you figure out that mount.....deb would be the package? Did you go through the build for util-linux or is there an easier way?
[15:06] <rbasak> $ dpkg -S mount.8
[15:06] <rbasak> mount: /usr/share/man/man8/umount.8.gz
[15:06] <rbasak> mount: /usr/share/man/man8/mount.8.gz
[15:06] <rbasak> It's a fair question :)
[15:08] <liam-r> Ah ok I had no idea that they could be built from another package and deployed like that. I'll need to sit down with some .deb documentation for a night or two I think :) Thanks again for helping me out so much I was going crazy trying to figure out what I was doing
[15:15] <rbasak> No problem.
[15:15] <rbasak> It's not built from another package.
[15:15] <rbasak> Source packages exist in a separate namespace from binary packages.
[15:15] <rbasak> One source package builds one or more binary packages.
[15:16] <rbasak> Collorary: each binary package is built from exactly one source package.
[15:19] <liam-r> Ah it begins to make sense. Thanks
[19:41] <cfs> Hello, I'm pinging about sponsorship for LP:1716047 (fix trusty's rustc control file).


[04:51] <Voyage>  While using selenium and tomcat with firefox. I am getting HTTP Status 500 - Unable to bind to locking port 7054 within 45000 ms.  Read a lot of posts but not solved. THis only happens when I use tomcat and run my kubuntu desktop by VNC. If I dont do it by VNC but manually the normal way. All goes fine
[04:53] <Jonathan_R> i need speech to text
[04:53] <Jonathan_R> what software do i need
[05:07] <Jonathan_R> since i have a disability, staying vertical for long periods of time is not possible. i need speech to text so that the system will type what i say and perform the functions and commands i give it
[05:09] <Jonathan_R> most of the software seem to be geared for text to speech. i have installed LiSpeak, jovie, simon and some others
[09:07] <ahaaje> KDE 4.13.1 was not available for Kubuntu 14.04. I see 4.13.2 is released today. Is there any chance it will be available?
[10:05] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[10:44] <Walex2> Jonathan_R: that's called speech recognition or dictation software. It will not be easy to find a freeware version of that, but there are probably some commercial packages for GNU/Linux
[10:45] <Walex2> ahaaje: are you talking about the unofficial PPA for KDE?
[10:46] <ahaaje> No, I meant as official updates to the KDE 4.13.0 that is in Kubuntu 14:04
[10:51] <yofel> ahaaje: .1 is in trusty-proposed and will be in -updates in a few days
[10:52] <ahaaje> yofel:thanks!
[10:57] <Jonathan_R> yes Walex2 thats correct, it would be dictation/speech recognition. i have simon,jovie and some others installed
[10:58] <Jonathan_R> it seems the simon can do dictation and so forth
[10:58] <Jonathan_R> now its just a matter of training it
[11:07] <Walex2> ahaaje: in theory Ubuntu/Kubuntu versions don't do version updates.
[11:07] <Walex2> ahaaje: that's why there are backports.
[11:09] <ahaaje> walex2:Not even minor versions like .1 to fix bugs? I seem to recall receiving minor version updates for earlier Kubuntu releases, but perhaps those came from backports
[11:12] <Walex2> ahaaje: there is a difference between backported bug fixes and backported versions...
[11:13] <Jonathan_R> apt has distupgrade which allows for what is known as rolling updates/upgrade
[11:13] <Walex2> ahaaje: however sometimes Ubuntu/Kubuntu do version updates, but that's the exception. Since for KDE there is a semi official KDE backports PPA, there may be less reason to backport minor versions.
[11:14] <Jonathan_R> they do come out with new releases, like the next one after this, 14.01 will be 14.04
[11:14] <Jonathan_R> 14.01 is a LTS where as 14.04 will not be
[11:15] <Jonathan_R> soyou could download the iso every few months, or just do adistupgrade
[11:16] <Jonathan_R> ahaaje, does that make sense
[11:17] <BluesKaj> 14.01?
[11:18] <ahaaje> I wondered about those versions numbers as well - for KDE?
[11:19] <Jonathan_R> the kde numbers are like the kernel numbers
[11:19] <Jonathan_R> kde 4 is the major release
[11:19] <Jonathan_R> the second set of numbers are the feature enhancements and improvements along the way
[11:19] <BluesKaj> 14.10 is LTS
[11:20] <Jonathan_R> the third set of numbers is for bug fixes
[11:20] <Jonathan_R> yes BluesKaj you are right
[11:20] <Jonathan_R> ijust had a dislexic moment there
[11:20] <BluesKaj> ok
[11:23] <Jonathan_R> ahaaje, here is what i mean as far as ubuntu is concerned; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule
[11:24] <ahaaje> Thanks
[11:26] <Jonathan_R> yw
[11:45] <BluesKaj> Jonathan_R, i was wrong , my apologies 14.04 is LTS ... up too early my brain is still foggy :)
[11:46] <Jonathan_R> lol its ok
[11:47] <BluesKaj> I should know...tested it for months before official release ...testing 14.10 now
[14:52] <n03l> Hey guys, just wondering, is the oxygen-transparent theme not compatible with KDE 4.13?
[14:52] <n03l> Is there an alternative
[14:57] <genii> I used to run RH in the mid 90s, around release 5.1/5.2 but after I found the packaging much better in Debian-based distros. RPM was a headache
[14:57] <Riddell> ** frameworks talk on now http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22262/kde-frameworks-libraries-for-all-qt-users/
[14:58] <genii> Whups, wrong channel :)
[15:30] <yoasif> quick question -- do you guys know of any way to configure kwin to show the application switcher like gnome3 (mutter)? I want alt-tab to show application icons, and alt ` exactly the same way that mutter
[16:52] <lordievader> Good evening.
[16:58] <dannyzen`> yoasif:  https://www.google.com/search?q=gnome+mutter&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9jiXU775JurksATZpoDQCw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1600&bih=760#q=kde+task+switcher&tbm=isch
[16:58] <dannyzen`> task switcher should be able to do it ootb
[17:47] <cobracommand> what are the main advantages of kde, besides personal preference?
[17:48] <lordievader> It doesn't try to be clever ;)
[17:48] <cobracommand> ?
[17:48] <cobracommand> how so?
[17:49] <TheFakeazneD525> konqueror, rekonq, konversation, k3b, kdenlive, krunner...
[17:49] <TheFakeazneD525> you get the idea
[17:49] <TheFakeazneD525> but on a serious note
[17:50] <TheFakeazneD525> it is very configurable, has a nice UI, consistent look and feel, modularized, relatively stable, and support for many files, protocols, and other stuff
[17:50] <TheFakeazneD525> plus, KDE has the most complete suite of programs, such as an IDE, task mangler, runner, DE, WM, painting programs, audio players, Office suite, and more
[17:51] <genii> Also they are going with Wayland
[17:51] <TheFakeazneD525> plus, all KDE programs share a similar look and feel, and with oxygen-gtk, so do GTK programs
[17:51] <TheFakeazneD525> plus, KDE itself is cross platform
[17:51] <TheFakeazneD525> eg, http://windows.kde.org and http://osx.kde.org
[17:52] <cobracommand> Thank you TheFakeazneD525.  Still confused about what lordievader wrote.
[17:52] <lordievader> cobracommand: I'm of the opinion that Unity and Gnome are trying to be clever.
[17:52] <TheFakeazneD525> lordievader, the naming convention
[17:52] <TheFakeazneD525> er, cobracommand , naming conventions of KDE are very simple
[17:52] <TheFakeazneD525> just shoehorn in a "K" somewhere,
[17:52] <lordievader> cobracommand: "Hey your pc supports standby, instead of shutdown you probably mean standby. I'll just hide shutdown" -gnome3
[17:53] <TheFakeazneD525> :P
[17:53] <lordievader> TheFakeazneD525: Naming convention?
[17:53] <TheFakeazneD525> lordievader, I meant to highlight cobracommand
[17:53] <TheFakeazneD525> Hmm, cobracommand to give one drawback of KDE
[17:54] <TheFakeazneD525> it is somewhat heavier than other desktop environments
[17:54] <TheFakeazneD525> But it should run fine on most computers
[17:54] <TheFakeazneD525> I ran it on a very weak computer, and it didn't cause too many problems
[17:56] <TheFakeazneD525> cobracommand, you could try Netrunner-OS standard
[17:56] <TheFakeazneD525> it's based off of Kubuntu, with some upgrades
[17:57] <cobracommand> I'm such a newb I thought I was using gnome, I didn't realize the default was unity.  I thought unity and gnome were the same thing
[17:57] <TheFakeazneD525> cobracommand, unity is somewhat of a fork of GNOME, due to some issues between the GNOME project and Canonical
[17:58] <lordievader> Unity is based on gnome, forgot if it was 2 or 3.
[17:58] <TheFakeazneD525> plus, Unity might switch to Qt too... seeing as Ubuntu touch's version of Unity is Qt based
[17:58] <TheFakeazneD525> And, it will have support for Mir, Canonical's display server
[18:07] <dentonkiy> ololo
[18:09] <dentonkiy> Hello people
[18:10] <dentonkiy> Im new in here
[18:10] <dentonkiy> Есть Русские?
[18:11] <singingstrings>  I see in KDE that dolphin file manager does not show .jpg thumb previews for a network location. Does anyone know where the setting is to show network location image thumbnail previews?
[18:12]  * TheFakeazneD525 shrugs
[18:13] <lordievader> !ru | dentonkiy
[18:13] <dentonkiy> Thanks
[18:20] <SternNL> Hi all, question. My out of the box Kubuntu doesn't display Korean characters. Also do characters sometimes display as a filled rectangle. When I mouse over its gone. Any ideas?
[18:23] <TheFakeazneD525> SternNL, you should try installing the locale
[18:23] <TheFakeazneD525> I'm not on Kubuntu ATM, but it should be in systemsettings under language
[18:24] <SternNL> I don't want to switch my interface language to Korean. It's just Korean characters in my browser are shown as rectangles.
[18:25] <genii> Is it Firefox?
[18:25] <lordievader> SternNL: Does your browser use utf?
[18:25] <SternNL> Yes it is
[18:26] <SternNL> Japanese is showing fine
[18:26] <SternNL> So I guess it's UTF capable
[18:28] <SternNL> Checked it is on Unicode
[18:32] <genii> SternNL: Do you have a site I could look at where this might be happening?
[18:32] <SternNL> ko.wikipedia.org
[18:43] <Walex2> SternNL: you don't have a font capable of displaying Korean in your chosen encoding.
[18:46] <SternNL> Does the page display fine at your end?
[18:46] <SternNL> I use the default Ubuntu font
[18:46] <Walex2> SternNL: your choice....
[18:48] <SternNL> You have a better option?
[18:52] <Rocco_666> Hello
[18:53] <Walex2> SternNL: I do.
[18:53] <SternNL> Would you be so nice to share it with me?
[18:53] <Rocco_666> can i run kubuntu- KDE 4.8 on a pentium4  1.2gb ram and 128 video memory? , Thanks
[18:54] <Walex2> SternNL: there are probably several HOWTOs on how to choose the right encoding and fonts for Hangul on the web, including the Ubuntu/Kubuntu ones probably
[18:54] <Walex2> SternNL: I personally use Arial for web font has it has a very large coverage of Unicode.
[18:55] <Walex2> SternNL: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KoreanTeam
[18:56] <SternNL> Thanks
[18:56] <Walex2> SternNL: there is also a channel on Freenode called #Ubuntu-KO
[18:56] <Walex2> SternNL: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Microsoft_Fonts
[18:57] <BluesKaj> Rocco_666, yes, KDE should run fine with those specs
[18:57] <Rocco_666> oh, thanks BluesKaj
[18:57] <Walex2> Rocco_666: but you may need to tone down a bit some of the more advanced tricks, mostly to save memory.
[18:57] <SternNL> Seems like my out of the box system has some font issues. Perhaps corruption. On a fresh gnome-ubuntu install Ubuntu shows ok.
[18:58] <Walex2> SternNL: 'sudo fc-cache' should solve most of them
[18:58] <Rocco_666> like? Walex2
[18:58] <Walex2> SternNL: reinstalling the fonts packages.
[18:58] <Rocco_666> akonadi, nepomuk?
[18:59] <rberg> Rocco_666: I would also turn down the fancy graphic effects
[18:59] <Walex2> Rocco_666: Strigi first, then nepomuk. Akonadi is not too bad, but it monitors a bit too much. And the fancier graph.ics effects as <rberg> says can take a fair bit of memory
[18:59] <Rocco_666> ok, got it rberg
[19:00] <Rocco_666> thanks folks
[19:00] <Rocco_666> i love KDE
[19:00] <Walex2> Rocco_666: if you can spare a bit of money buying even a small (60GB, 120GB) flash SSD can speed up things a lot
[19:00] <SternNL> Walex2: gonna try that
[19:00] <Rocco_666> on my quadcore machine runs like a dream but i want kde on my old box too xD
[19:00] <Rocco_666> ok, a ssd...
[19:01] <Walex2> Rocco_666: I have found that the main consumption of memory is from too many web browser tabs. I just realized that I have "accidentally" opened 700 and that is nearly too much for 8GiB of RAM.
[19:02] <Walex2> Rocco_666: for SSD I like Micron, Toshiba.
[19:02] <Walex2> Rocco_666: on a 60GB SSD you can easily fit the "/" filetree and a swap space and probably your home directory too.
[19:02] <Rocco_666> let me google some...
[19:03] <Walex2> Rocco_666: with flash SSD leaving a bit unused improves their durability a lot.
[19:03] <Walex2> flash SSD can really improve the responsiveness of an older system
[19:04] <Rocco_666> amazing, im just a noob...
[19:04] <Walex2> BTW buying a top of the line one is pointless on an older system because they are limited by the speed of a SATA or SATA2 connection. What matters is the much faster random access.
[19:05] <Rocco_666> hmm, i see
[19:06] <Walex2> like a Crucial M500 instead of a Crucial M550
[19:06] <Rocco_666> maybe an old* version of kde...
[19:07] <Rocco_666> kubuntu 12.04- KDE 4.8
[19:07] <Rocco_666> ?
[19:07] <Walex2> Rocco_666: recent versions of KDE4 are pretty good.
[19:07] <Walex2> Rocco_666: that is still pretty good.
[19:07] <Rocco_666> yeah, im running 4.13 on my laptop
[19:07] <Walex2> Rocco_666: if you use the KDE PPA backports you can install it on 12.04 LTS too.
[19:07] <Rocco_666> NICE
[19:08] <Rocco_666> :)
[19:10] <Rocco_666> gotta go,, thanks for the info folks, o/
[20:23] <lunife> hello,is kubuntu-ppa an oficial ppa supported and maintained by kubuntu developers?
[20:24] <bprompt> !kubuntu-ppa
[20:24] <bprompt> lunife:    https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa   <--- seems so, yes
[20:27] <lunife> ok and is it better to have only kubuntu ppa and no ubuntu repositories for updates or is it ok to have both?
[20:28] <bprompt> shouldn't matter, kubuntu is just ubuntu using kde desktop manager and window manager, as opposed to using Unity, still ubuntu though
[20:30] <lunife> i've asked because i'm using both the official ubuntu repositories and kubuntu ppa
[20:30] <lunife> thank you for your answers bprompt
[20:30] <bprompt> np
[22:20] <citizen> Ok, having a serious sound issue...apparently notification sounds volume keeps getting reset to 100% after every alert. How2fix without in-depth knowledge of patching or rewriting .cfg files?
[22:23] <citizen> *crickets*
[22:26] <citizen> Well...this channel is f'ing useless. :\


[06:01] <hikiko> hello
[07:59] <hikiko> hello
[08:07] <ypwong> hikiko, hello!
[08:08] <hikiko> hi ypwong :)
[08:09] <ypwong> hikiko, how's the weather?
[08:10] <hikiko> almost like summer :)
[08:10] <hikiko> 25-31 degrees
[08:11] <hikiko> feels like changsha :p
[08:23] <ypwong> hikiko, wow that's nice
[08:44] <hikiko> FJKong, hello, do you remember which setting you changed in Changsha and you stopped awesome from using the unity gsettings?
[08:45] <FJKong> hikiko: 2 sec
[08:45] <hikiko> sure :)
[08:46] <FJKong> hikiko: dconf write /org/gnome/settings-daemon/plugins/cursor/active false
[08:47] <hikiko> thanks a lot FJKong :)
[08:47] <FJKong> hikiko: YW


[20:25] <mpmc> Random question guys, any way I can increase the window control icons (min, max, close)?
[22:33] <fossfreedom> mpmc, increase the size?
[22:33] <fossfreedom> the window control icons are sized as per your theme.  So in theory you can adjust the appearance and size using GTK CSS