[00:26] <katco> does juju have a wrapper around exec.Command?
[00:30] <perrito666> katco: iirc there is one in utils
[00:30] <perrito666> sadly there is more than one around
[00:30] <katco> perrito666: ty sir
[00:31] <perrito666> it does little to wrap it :)
[00:31] <perrito666> yw
[00:31]  * perrito666 wonders why is he even reading this channel at thos hour
[00:32] <jw4> perrito666: because you love it here - admit it
[00:32] <katco> :)
[00:32] <perrito666> jw4: well have no life :p
[00:32] <jw4> :)
[00:32] <katco> code is life!
[00:32] <katco> (of course there are more important things, but coding is a lot of fun :))
[00:32]  * jw4 whispers "don't tell katco any different"
[00:33] <katco> lol
[00:33] <jw4> :)
[00:33] <katco> well right now my daughter is asleep by 6:30
[00:33] <katco> 18:30
[00:33] <jw4> wow - how old is she?
[00:33] <katco> i'm sure when that changes i'll be a little more scarce
[00:33] <katco> she is 8 months
[00:33] <jw4> awww
[00:34] <jw4> does she sleep through the night though?
[00:34] <katco> most of the time
[00:34] <jw4> nice!
[00:34] <katco> she's a good little baby :)
[00:34] <jw4> yeah; our first slept through the night at 8 weeks, but our son (second born) took much much longer
[00:35] <katco> how many do you have john?
[00:35] <jw4> two
[00:35] <jw4> daughter 13 and son 9
[00:35] <katco> wow, how nice :)
[00:35] <katco> the teenage years haha
[00:35] <jw4> don't envy the daipers and sleepless nights even though some monster occasionally replaces my daugter
[00:36] <katco> well, i'm having fun so far :)
[00:36] <jw4> good
[00:36] <jw4> I get nostalgic until I think about some of the practicalities of infants
[00:37] <katco> hehe
[00:37] <jw4> perrito666: I forget - you don't have kids right?
[00:38] <jw4> he took himself seriously
[00:38] <katco> haha
[00:41] <menn0> katco, jw4: we make baaad sleepers
[00:41] <menn0> katco, jw4: my son is 19 months and he's only /just/ started sleeping through
[00:42] <katco> oh man
[00:42] <katco> menn0: i feel lucky for sure
[00:42] <jw4> menn0: yeah? That's not unusual I think... but it's a long time to have disruptive sleep
[00:43] <jw4> menn0: for the parents I mean
[00:46] <perrito666> jw4: nope, it shows right?
[00:47] <jw4> perrito666: you don't look weary? ;)
[00:47] <perrito666> well if when I have kids they are anything like me the will begin to be good sleepers around 21
[00:48] <perrito666> years that is
[00:48] <jw4> perrito666: lol
[00:52] <thumper> menn0: are you close to merging your env worker branch  ?
[00:53] <perrito666> wallyworld: you are a hard client to please :p
[00:53] <wallyworld> :-(
[00:54] <wallyworld> did what i say make sense though?
[00:54] <perrito666> wallyworld: not really but I havent read the last review just the email
[00:54] <wallyworld> the review is just a note or two
[00:55] <wallyworld> we have existing code to set machine/unit status
[00:55] <wallyworld> so we need to use that instead of duplicating new code
[00:55] <perrito666> lets go priv so logs dont suck later
[00:55] <wallyworld> we add the agent status setter and the apiserver layer thunks accordingly
[00:55] <wallyworld> ok
[02:11] <katco> axw: wallyworld: boom! 2015-01-29 02:10:34 INFO juju.storage.provisioner provisioner.go:128 block devices created: [{1 1771eb70-b0ca-49e3-84d4-7b73b1401d18 /dev/loop1
[02:11] <katco>     1  false}]
[02:11] <axw> katco: sweet :)
[02:11] <wallyworld> whoot
[02:11] <katco> going to sanity check the image rq, but we might be good
[02:11] <wallyworld> seems so
[02:12] <axw> katco: are you generating a UUID for the volume ID now?
[02:12] <katco> axw: currently, yes. with todos to use the algorithm you suggested
[02:12] <katco> axw: i just didn't have a machine id to hang off of
[02:12] <axw> UUID would probably be fine TBH
[02:13] <axw> assuming you're creating the image file with that too
[02:14] <katco> yes
[02:14] <katco> axw: i think we'll still have to put some thought into how to name these things so persisting across reboots isn't a pain
[02:14] <katco> axw: but that is trivial i think
[02:14] <katco> /dev/loop1: [0801]:51515891 (/var/lib/juju/storage/block/loop/var/lib/juju/storage/block/loop/1771eb70-b0ca-49e3-84d4-7b73b1401d18)
[02:14] <katco>
[02:15] <axw> cool
[02:15] <katco> charm is hello worlding along just fine, i'm going to push these changes and have dinner
[02:15] <katco> i'll check back in after to see if there are any issues
[02:18] <katco> axw: https://github.com/wallyworld/juju/pull/4
[02:18] <wallyworld> looking
[02:18] <katco> axw: fair warning, the lxc tests are not passing (stupid trivial stuff to fix)
[02:18] <katco> wallyworld: ^^
[02:19] <katco> ok i'm eating some dinner. bbiab
[02:21] <wallyworld> ty
[02:30] <rick_h_> mattyw: let me know when the data is loaded and will check it out. It needs rating info because that's the api we hit
[02:30] <rick_h_> mattyw: so it needs the sub, the plan, and a starting rating data so that the my accout page in the UI had some records to it
[02:31] <mattyw> rick_h_, stop
[02:31] <rick_h_> mattyw: party
[02:33] <mattyw> thumper, ping?
[02:33] <thumper> mattyw: hey
[02:34] <thumper> mattyw: wwitzel3 reviewed that branch :)
[02:34] <mattyw> thumper, hey there, ok cool - I didn't get around to much reviews yesterday so I'm going to try to get to some today
[02:34] <mattyw> thumper, quick question for you
[02:34] <thumper> shoot
[02:35] <mattyw> thumper, recently I've been wanting to find the envuuid from juju via the command line - I don't think we have one at the moment, and it feels like it might be something that would be useful to have in juju status
[02:35] <mattyw> thumper, wanted to know what thoughts/ plans you had for that kind of thing
[02:35] <thumper> mattyw: there is one
[02:35]  * thumper bootstraps to check
[02:36] <thumper> $ juju api-info environ-uuid
[02:36] <thumper> 607aa9ab-dd2e-4943-86c3-3fc65b800450
[02:36] <thumper> mattyw: ^^
[02:36] <thumper> although, in status?
[02:36] <thumper> maybe
[02:37] <mattyw> thumper, awesome!
[02:37] <mattyw> thumper, that certainly makes me happy for now
[02:37] <mattyw> thumper, I didn't know about the api-info command - feels like Christmas :)
[02:37] <mattyw> thumper, thanks for the help :)
[02:37] <thumper> np
[02:38] <mattyw> thumper, as along as it's available somewhere I'm happy for now
[02:39] <thumper> kk
[02:46] <wallyworld> axw: another oarsum hack https://github.com/wallyworld/juju/pull/16
[02:46] <axw> wallyworld: looking
[02:49] <axw> wallyworld: reviewed
[02:49] <wallyworld> ty
[03:01] <katco> wallyworld: i've addressed your concerns. ok if i merge?
[03:01] <wallyworld> katco: would be awesome
[03:02] <katco> wallyworld: i think you might have to do it since i don't have write access
[03:02] <wallyworld> katco: oh ffs i keep forgetting
[03:02] <wallyworld> katco: merged \o/ tyvm
[03:03] <wallyworld> i'll try it out now
[03:03] <wallyworld> after meeting
[03:03] <katco> wallyworld: i would feel a lot better if you or axw could poke at things and make sure this is working (multiple block devices etc.)
[03:03] <wallyworld> will do
[03:03] <katco> wallyworld: i'm not familiar enough yet to know what edges there are
[03:03] <axw> katco: sure, I'll have a play with it
[03:03] <katco> axw: tyvm
[03:04] <katco> ok, i'm going to take care of a few things... please ping me if you find something!
[03:53] <axw> wallyworld: FYI, the loop devices won't get cleaned up if you destroy the machine
[03:54] <axw> wallyworld: we should be marking these as "persistent" later, and preventing env destruction till they're gone
[03:54] <wallyworld> axw: i just noticed that
[03:54] <wallyworld> i ate my disk with a large loop device
[04:01] <thumper> axw,wallyworld: either of you remember where is the cloud-init.log file is on cloud machines?
[04:01] <axw> thumper: I thought it was just /var/log/cloud-init-output.log ?
[04:02] <thumper> axw: ta
[04:02] <wallyworld> what he said
[04:13] <wallyworld> axw: sorta works, but something is not quite wired up - attached hooks complaining storage foo/0 is not provisioned, just digging into that now
[04:13] <wallyworld> this is for loop on local
[04:13] <axw> wallyworld: yeah, I'm having some issues too but I've modified the provisioner
[04:14] <wallyworld> so close
[04:33] <anastasiamac> axw: wallyworld: there r separate discussion going on..
[04:34] <anastasiamac> axw: wallyworld: is it pool manager responsibility to vaidate provider type supplied
[04:34] <anastasiamac> axw: wallyworld:?
[04:34] <anastasiamac> axw: wallyworld: on pool create that is...
[04:35] <wallyworld> depends if we think pool manager should know about envieons
[04:35] <axw> I guess not
[04:35] <axw> it should validate the storage provider type, but probably not whether it is valid for the current environment
[04:35] <wallyworld> that is my initial thought, but i'm happy to be wrong
[04:36] <axw> it does make me a little nervous that something else will come along and use the pool manager without validating, that's all
[04:36] <wallyworld> may need another component - EnvironPoolManager
[04:37] <wallyworld> or maybe that's overkill
[04:37] <axw> that might make it clearer, but you could still go through the PoolManager directly (unless that gets hidden)
[04:37] <wallyworld> yes
[04:37] <wallyworld> not too fussed either way
[04:38] <wallyworld> was just trying to reduce external dependencies of pool manager
[04:38] <wallyworld> would i think prefer an EnvironPoolManager to live in /environ/storage
[04:38] <wallyworld> and the api calls that
[04:39] <axw> I vote we defer this decision, and do validation in the apiserver code for now
[04:39] <wallyworld> yep, sounds good
[04:39] <wallyworld> was about to say that :-)
[04:40] <wallyworld> am annoyed we have so much business logic in apiserver layer - need to fix that sometime
[04:44] <thumper> heh
[04:45] <thumper> wallyworld: I'm sure it is because we don't have a business layer
[04:45] <thumper> we have apiserver and state
[04:45] <thumper> and people didn't want it in state
[04:45] <thumper> so guess where it goes
[04:45] <wallyworld> thumper: i know too well the reason - been annoyed about it for ages as you know
[04:45] <thumper> yeah.... I know
[04:45]  * thumper has the munchies
[04:49] <wallyworld> thumper: if i just install django, is there a default page like for apache or tomcat etc?
[04:50] <thumper> kinda
[04:50] <thumper> you mean locally or the charm?
[04:50] <axw> wallyworld: sorry, I think your SetProvisionedBlockDevices method is broken. it's only calling state.DemoSetProvisionedBlockDeviceInfo if err != nil above
[04:51] <wallyworld> thumper: i just want to expose the service and point a browser to it to see it worked
[04:51] <thumper> wallyworld: it might work, but not entirely sure
[04:51] <wallyworld> kk
[04:51] <wallyworld> axw: ffs i'm stupid
[04:52] <axw> wallyworld: I'm changing the storage provisioner to periodically check for unprovisioned storage instances
[04:53] <axw> wallyworld: not using a watcher because the entities are in the wrong places (not associated with machine, but units)
[04:53] <wallyworld> can you fix that stuff up while you're there?
[04:53] <axw> yes
[04:53] <wallyworld> ta
[04:53] <axw> just testing now
[04:53] <wallyworld> dontcha love hacks for demos
[04:58] <menn0> wallyworld: you too huh? :)
[04:58] <wallyworld> noooooo, we aren't using *any* dirty hacks
[04:59] <wallyworld> we're far better than that
[05:00] <menn0> wallyworld: of course not. we aren't either. ;-/
[05:00] <wallyworld> glad to hear it
[05:38] <axw> wallyworld: I think we should be running those LXC changes by someone, could be opening up security holes
[05:39] <axw> wallyworld: in particular, looks like we're dropping all AA protection
[05:39] <wallyworld> i think we can tighten up the rules
[05:39] <wallyworld> after the demo :-)
[05:39] <axw> of coursed
[08:45] <wallyworld> axw: nice branch. we should also be able to register the new providers for ec2 as well as local i would expect?
[08:45] <axw> wallyworld: yep
[08:45] <wallyworld> wanna add that real quick?
[08:46] <axw> wallyworld: sure, just testing a tmpfs provider.. I think it needs more lxc config hacks to work
[08:46] <axw> likewise with formatting/mounting block devices in local, I think
[08:46] <wallyworld> ah bollocks
[08:47] <axw> wallyworld: actually I think I've just mucked up the mount syntax, but could still be broken... will come back to it
[08:47] <wallyworld> righto
[08:50] <axw> wallyworld: testing rootfs on ec2, will take a few mins
[08:50] <wallyworld> sure, np
[08:50] <wallyworld> my connection has been shit today, so ec2 testing is painful
[09:02] <axw> wallyworld: updated
[09:03] <wallyworld> ty looking
[09:06] <wallyworld> thanks axw, i'll merge
[09:06] <axw> cool
[09:13] <axw> wallyworld: I was worried about nothing, tmpfs works on local
[09:13] <wallyworld> farking oarsum
[09:19] <axw> wallyworld: https://github.com/wallyworld/juju/pull/19
[09:19] <wallyworld> looking
[09:20] <wallyworld> sigh, ec2 is slooooow right now
[09:20] <anastasiamac> axw:wallyworld: running tests after rebasing, m getting
[09:20] <anastasiamac> cmd/juju/storage/listformatters.go:11:2: cannot find package "github.com/dustin/go-humanize"
[09:20] <anastasiamac> axw: ?
[09:20] <axw> anastasiamac: godeps -u dependencies.tsv
[09:20] <wallyworld> axw: i did have a way of registering common providers but removed it due to import loops
[09:21] <wallyworld> i plan on adding it back later
[09:21] <axw> wallyworld: cool
[09:21]  * anastasiamac rolles eyes
[09:21] <anastasiamac> axw: of course :D
[09:22] <axw> wallyworld: unless you think there's anything else we need for next week, I'm going to take a step back from code and go back to the model rework
[09:27] <wallyworld> axw: should storage-dir in tmpfs default to <libdir>/storage or similar?
[09:27] <axw> libdir?
[09:27] <wallyworld> the juju lib dir setting
[09:27] <wallyworld> can't remember the name
[09:27] <wallyworld> comes from agentconfig
[09:28] <axw> wallyworld: data-dir?
[09:28] <axw> wallyworld: as in /var/lib/juju/storage?
[09:28] <wallyworld> yeah
[09:28] <axw> isn't that where I put them?
[09:28] <axw> /var/lib/juju/storage/fs
[09:29] <wallyworld> ah, haven't seen that in the diff yet
[09:30] <wallyworld> ah there it is
[09:30] <axw> wallyworld: I really think we need to change the way that works, since (as I noted in a TODO) the data-dir isn't necessarily the same on all machines
[09:30] <wallyworld> at the bottom
[09:30] <wallyworld> it should be decided late
[09:30] <axw> so it can't be a property of the pool, but of the provider as instantiated in the agent
[09:30] <wallyworld> yep
[09:31] <wallyworld> will do for now :-)
[09:31] <axw> yep
[09:32] <wallyworld> axw: i'll fix that failing test anastasia mentioned. on my machine the cmd/juju tests *always* hang and time out :-(
[09:33] <axw> okey dokey
[09:33] <axw> thanks
[09:36] <axw> wallyworld: actually before I go off to do model things, one more thing... we should be able to use the storage subordinate now
[09:36] <wallyworld> axw: only web app i can find that works with postgres is discourse and it fails to install - apt issues, fixed, but now sig verification failure. just seems too out of date
[09:37] <axw> :(
[09:37] <wallyworld> oh storage subordinate
[09:37] <wallyworld> hmmm
[09:37] <wallyworld> if there were a bundle with that with a web app charm, might be good
[09:38] <wallyworld> i'd still like to find a web apps just just uses postgres like wordpress uses mysql
[09:38] <wallyworld> i might see about making mysql chamr use storage
[09:39] <wallyworld> but first food
[09:40] <axw> wallyworld: https://jujucharms.com/rails-example-single/6 ?
[09:40] <axw> I'll test it out..
[09:40] <wallyworld> nice, how'd you find that?
[09:40] <wallyworld> my charm store search foo must be bad
[09:40] <axw> wallyworld: jujucharms.com, bundles
[09:41] <axw> looked for one with an elephant :)
[09:41] <wallyworld> :-)
[09:41] <wallyworld> right, i need to eat first then charms
[10:14] <voidspace> TheMue: https://github.com/voidspace/juju/compare/dimitern:wip-ec2-addressable-containers...wip-preparecontainerinterfaceinfo
[10:16] <voidspace> TheMue: there's a comment in there "// TODO: (mfoord) we should add the machine ID to the IP"
[10:16] <voidspace> TheMue: that's out of date and can  be removed (the call to addr.AllocateTo does this)
[10:24] <wallyworld_> axw: data=rootfs,10M   <- forces the use of the 10M or else it errors. we shouldn't need that for filesystemmounts
[10:25] <axw> wallyworld_: that's not always true. Ceph will need it...
[10:25] <wallyworld_> rightio, so it needs to be optional
[10:26] <axw> wallyworld_: yep. it should default to 1G anyway, which will then be ignored
[10:26] <wallyworld_> yep
[10:33] <wallyworld_> axw: loop file systems, as accessed from inside container, are owned by root. we will need to make the ownership ubuntu.ubuntu
[10:33] <axw> wallyworld_: do we? the charms run as root
[10:33] <wallyworld_> unity also notified me of a new device and showed the disk icon in the launcher. and i can see what files i create from inside the container
[10:33] <axw> nice :)
[10:33] <wallyworld_> ah yeah, fair enough
[10:34] <axw> wallyworld_: that fails app fails when I try to install it...
[10:34] <wallyworld_> joy
[10:34] <axw> wallyworld_: apparently you can use django, but I have nfi about it
[10:34] <wallyworld_> me either
[10:34] <wallyworld_> i was hoping django had a welcome page
[10:34] <wallyworld_> like apache, tomcat etc
[10:35] <wallyworld_> but i didn't see one
[10:39] <wallyworld_> axw: i think juju storage list should be sorted by owner. thoughts? i had a few units and would prefer to see storages for the units listed together
[10:39] <menn0> anyone able to look at this one line fix: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/820/
[10:39] <axw> wallyworld_: yeah, probably
[10:39] <axw> wallyworld_: in the tabular format anyway
[10:39] <wallyworld_> menn0: oh, you ask all the hard questions
[10:40] <wallyworld_> axw: yep
[10:40] <menn0> wallyworld_: sorry :)
[10:40] <menn0> wallyworld_, axw: thanks guys
[10:42] <wallyworld_> anastasiamac: can you please sort the tabular storage list by owner? when you are free
[10:52] <perrito666> morning
[11:21] <voidspace> perrito666: morning
[11:26] <wallyworld__> axw: this fixes some tests (yours and mine :-) and also makes default size 1G and default count 1 always https://github.com/wallyworld/juju/pull/20
[11:27] <menn0> wallyworld__, axw: pushing a branch now that fixes the panic that's currently being frequently seen during merge attempts
[11:28] <wallyworld__> which test?
[11:29] <menn0> wallyworld__: the leadership feature tests are failing frequently
[11:30] <menn0> the problem isn't actually with those tests but with my recent change to how the machine agent workers are started
[11:30] <menn0> subtle race
[11:30] <wallyworld__> ok, i hadn't noticed as ee've been landing to a feature branch
[11:30] <wallyworld__> great that you caught it
[11:30] <menn0> wallyworld__: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/821/
[11:31] <menn0> wallyworld__: funnily enough, this related to a review comment you made :)
[11:31] <wallyworld__> oh, i hate to ask, which one?
[11:32] <menn0> wallyworld__: where we were discussing whether the envWorkerManager should clean up the returned runner even when an error was returned
[11:32] <wallyworld__> ah right
[11:32] <menn0> wallyworld__: I was using an unusual pattern, which you picked up on
[11:32] <wallyworld__> ancient history, > 1 week ago :-)
[11:32] <menn0> wallyworld__: this fix in the same area
[11:34] <wallyworld__> menn0: done, ty for fix
[11:35] <menn0> wallyworld__: thanks. good idea re the comment
[11:35] <wallyworld__> menn0: i can't recall, maybe even a comment next to where singular runner is used if it's releavnt to do so
[11:36] <menn0> wallyworld__: I actually have a better idea which is clearer and reduces the assumptions about the singular runner's behaviour
[11:36] <wallyworld__> ok
[11:43] <menn0> wallyworld__: pls take a look again. this is much clearer IMO. http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/821/diff/
[11:43] <wallyworld__> ok
[11:44] <wallyworld__> menn0: can we remove "&& singularRunner != nil" now?
[11:45] <wallyworld__> looks much nicer
[11:45] <menn0> wallyworld__: probably but I've been bitten by not have a guard like that before
[11:45] <menn0> wallyworld__: let me try it
[11:45] <wallyworld__> menn0: i can't see that it's needed as we exit above with an err before the defer
[11:46] <menn0> wallyworld__: yeah I know, but I've thought that before and had problems
[11:46] <menn0> wallyworld__: that was in a slightly different case though
[11:46] <wallyworld__> menn0: runner and singular runner usage looks the same and runner has no guard
[11:47] <wallyworld__> oh wait
[11:47] <wallyworld__> sorry
[11:47] <wallyworld__> can't read
[11:47] <menn0> wallyworld__: it does for the defer that cleans
[11:47] <wallyworld__> LGTM
[11:47] <menn0> wallyworld__: i'm going to remove them and re-run the tests and my little tester that was triggering the panics
[11:47] <menn0> wallyworld__: the guards irk me too
[11:47] <wallyworld__> ok
[11:49] <menn0> wallyworld__: yep, doesn't work. panics due to nil pointer dereference
[11:49] <wallyworld__> doh
[11:49] <menn0> wallyworld__: I don't get why... something special about defers perhaps and how they get executed?
[11:49] <wallyworld__> nfi right now
[11:50] <menn0> wallyworld__: I don't care right now. bed awaits and I still have some other (non-work) jobs to do
[11:50] <wallyworld__> yep, land tha sucker
[12:15] <menn0> wallyworld__: that's in. thanks for the late night review.
[12:15] <wallyworld__> np, catch you later
[12:15] <wallyworld__> really late for you
[12:15] <menn0> yeah :)
[12:18] <jam> wallyworld__: anything to go over before I see you in Capetown ?
[12:19] <jam> fwereade: ^^
[12:19] <wallyworld__> jam: nothing urgent - just need go over storage, health etc prior to seeing mark
[12:20] <wallyworld__> jam: there's a few things re: storage we can disuss over there
[13:23] <katco> wallyworld__: axw: hey, just waking up. how are things with storage?
[13:23] <wallyworld__> katco: good :-)
[13:23] <katco> wallyworld__: woohoo!
[13:23] <wallyworld__> loop provider works
[13:23] <wallyworld__> was tweaked a bit
[13:23] <katco> wallyworld__: cool
[13:24] <wallyworld__> axw added tmpfs and rootfs
[13:24] <katco> wallyworld__: anything i should know going into today?
[13:24] <katco> very cool
[13:25] <wallyworld__> katco: we do need to 1. evaluate the permissions, especially the aa ones on the container (but that can wait); 2. loop at mounting an external block device
[13:25] <wallyworld__> look not loop
[13:26] <axw> and bind mounting into local provider
[13:26] <katco> wallyworld__: understood on both accounts. 1 is part of a lot of cleanup we'll have to do
[13:26] <wallyworld__> yep
[13:26] <katco> wallyworld__: axw: i was planning on looking at 2 today
[13:26] <wallyworld__> doesn't matter for demo of course
[13:26] <wallyworld__> great :-)
[13:26] <axw> cool
[13:27] <katco> wallyworld__: axw: ok i'm off to get ready. you guys rock!
[13:27] <katco> anastasiamac: and you as well if you're around
[13:27] <axw> katco: later, hope you have a good day
[13:28] <wallyworld__> axw: not sure if you saw before, i fixed some tests and added default size handling https://github.com/wallyworld/juju/pull/20
[13:28] <axw> wallyworld__: I didn't. looking now
[13:28] <wallyworld__> i made count default to 1 regardless of size
[13:28] <wallyworld__> if count wasn't specified
[13:37] <axw> wallyworld__: reviewed
[13:37] <wallyworld__> ty
[13:44] <wallyworld__> axw: changes pushed
[13:45] <axw> wallyworld__: LGTM, thanks
[13:45] <wallyworld__> merged
[13:48] <wallyworld__> katco: also, if you're bored, there's also investigating how to provision block devices on openstack (as we do with EBS volumes on AWS)
[14:04] <dimitern> jam, hey, as OCR can you have a look at this please? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/822/
[14:16] <dimitern> wallyworld__, axw, ^^
[14:16] <dimitern> well not as OCRs but if you have some time :)
[15:08] <alexisb> wallyworld__, axw you guys must be robots that don't need sleep
[15:17] <jamestunnicliffe> dimitern: Could you review http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/823/ please?
[15:17] <dimitern> jamestunnicliffe, sure, looking
[15:18] <mgz> ....snow
[16:05] <ericsnow> perrito666: are we having standup? (no natefinch, no wwitzel3)
[16:05] <perrito666> ericsnow: we can wave it
[16:05] <perrito666> ericsnow: yet Ill priv you a question
[16:05] <ericsnow> perrito666: k
[16:10] <TheMue> voidspace: why do you think so?
[16:10] <voidspace> TheMue: no reason...
[16:16] <jamestunnicliffe> dimitern: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/824/ should work. Deleted the old merge and review request
[16:25] <dimitern> jamestunnicliffe, reviewed
[17:14] <dimitern> mgz, ping
[17:15] <mgz> dimitern: hey
[17:16] <dimitern> mgz, hey! so a quick question about the merge bot
[17:16] <mgz> hit me
[17:16] <dimitern> mgz, jamestunnicliffe - our new team mate wants to land a PR - https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1502 - and he is in juju Hackers group on GH, has access to RB and all
[17:16] <dimitern> mgz, but it seems the bot is not picking up his $$merge$$ comment
[17:17] <mgz> jamestunnicliffe: have you set your membership of the juju group to public?
[17:17] <dimitern> mgz, ah! that might be it :)
[17:17] <dimitern> mgz, he went for some tea - will ask him in a moment :)
[17:18] <mgz> cool, poke if that doesn't help
[17:18] <dimitern> mgz, cheers! I can see his membership is private, that should be it
[17:28] <dimitern> voidspace, http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/822/diff/
[19:34] <perrito666> wallyworld__:  you are going to hate me when you are back
[19:53] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: I'm back btw, just trying to finish up this final once over I promised for the cloudsigma provider
[19:54] <ericsnow> cool
[19:54] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: how'd it go?
[19:54] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: how is the services stuff going? also we should probably start poking people to have another look at GCE now that the first set of review fixes are up.
[19:54] <alexisb> wwitzel3, so are you officially moved in?
[19:54] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: I'm wrapping things up (hope to have an initial patch up soon)
[19:55] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: the systemd stuff on top of that will be almost trivial :)
[19:55] <wwitzel3> ericsnow, alexisb: went great, keys in hand, we are going to take some stuff over tonight and tomorrow evening and stay the night tomorrow :)
[19:55] <ericsnow> \o/
[19:55] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: yeah, I was thinking I would do that, no better test of an abstraction than having someone who didn't write it, us it :)
[19:55] <wwitzel3> s/us/use
[19:55] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: perfect
[19:56] <alexisb> wwitzel3, sweet, first nights are always fun
[19:56] <wwitzel3> alexisb: yeah, pizza on the floor as been my tradition since my first house ~12 years ago, so probably do that again
[20:25] <menn0> thumper, waigani: that CI blocker details are a little off but there is a problem
[20:25] <menn0> thumper, waigani: I suspect this is unrelated to the issue I already fixed
[20:25] <waigani> yay
[20:25] <menn0> thumper, waigani: for whatever reason it seems much more likely on i386 than other archs
[20:26] <menn0> thumper, waigani: in fact it hasn't happened yet on amd64
[20:26] <menn0> waigani: you haven't committed any presence changes yet have you?
[20:26] <waigani> menn0: nop
[20:26] <menn0> waigani: cause it's now the presence pinger that's dying
[20:26] <waigani> oh really?
[20:26] <menn0> waigani: I have a theory that the presence pinger is still active when state is shut down
[20:28] <waigani> menn0: could it be one of our multi-env tests - sets up two states, and the pinger for each will currently listen to everything from all envs?
[20:28] <menn0> thumper, waigani : even though from a quick look at the code that doesn't seem possible
[20:28] <menn0> thumper, waigani : I'll keep digging post-kids swimming. I have to go now.
[20:28] <waigani> menn0: cool.
[20:40] <sinzui> menn0: Right, you branch fixed some of the panics CI saw, but not all :(
[21:09]  * thumper sad-face
[21:12] <wallyworld__> perrito666: that maas issue is easy to fix - i can do it. the time to wait is more than sufficient on vmaas but clearly not on hardware so i'll increase it
[21:25] <perrito666> wallyworld__: isnt there a better way?
[21:25] <wallyworld__> sadly no
[21:25] <wallyworld__> the deployment process involves a reboot
[21:25] <wallyworld__> and all juju can do is poll
[21:26] <wallyworld__> i discussed the approach with the maas guys
[21:47] <thumper> waigani, menn0, cherylj, davecheney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9943662/
[21:47] <wallyworld__> trivial review for 1.22 maas fix http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/825/
[21:48] <thumper> huh...
[21:48] <thumper> why am I surprised that this is working?
[21:48] <waigani> thumper: is that juju status of another env? Nice!
[21:48] <thumper> waigani: yep
[21:48] <thumper> and I just did 'juju ssh 0'
[21:48] <thumper> and got in to it
[21:49] <waigani> sweet
[21:50] <waigani> thumper: next test would be to expose a service, i.e. wordpress/mysql and visit it
[21:50] <thumper> there are problems with the rsyslog worker
[21:51] <thumper> hmm...
[21:51] <thumper> inside the machine, the logdir is /var/log/juju
[21:51] <thumper> however on the host it is /var/log/juju-tim-another
[21:51] <thumper> and the rsyslog worker is looking for the host log dir not the machine log dir
[21:54] <waigani> thumper: extend RsyslogConfig to hold the dir path?
[21:55] <thumper> I'll be looking into it next
[21:56] <thumper> huh
[21:56] <thumper> I now have ubuntu deployed in both environments
[21:56] <thumper> time for some wordpress/mysql action
[21:57] <waigani> =D
[22:17] <thumper> :(
[22:17] <thumper> now I have machines for the secondary environment, we need waigani's destroy branch
[22:17]  * thumper taps fingers
[22:18]  * thumper does things manually
[22:30] <menn0> thumper: that's awesome that it's working
[22:30] <menn0> jw4: ping
[22:31] <menn0> thumper: can you push what you have to your repo soon so I can grab it?
[22:32] <sinzui> wallyworld_: I am fighting google
[22:37] <jw4> menn0: yep
[22:42] <thumper> menn0: pushing it up now
[22:46] <thumper> menn0: https://github.com/howbazaar/juju/tree/juju-environment-create
[22:48] <menn0> thumper: cheers
[23:08] <menn0> davecheney: do you know if "go test" run tests in parallel by default?
[23:14] <waigani> menn0: I asked davecheney the same question a while ago: answer was no
[23:15] <menn0> waigani: interesting. one of the stacktraces i'm looking had has teardowns running from different test suites in different packages (in separate goroutines)
[23:15] <waigani> menn0: with pingInfo, do we need to add a docID and leave Slot as an int64? i.e. the same as you suggested for beingInfo?
[23:16] <waigani> oh really?
[23:16] <davecheney> menn0: the answer is yes
[23:16] <davecheney> and no
[23:16] <davecheney> tests inside a package are run in sequence
[23:16] <menn0> waigani: re pingInfo, yeah that sounds right (so change the underlying field name for Slot)
[23:16] <davecheney> multiple packages are tested in parallel, just like they are built in parallel
[23:17] <menn0> davecheney: ok, that explains that then. thanks.
[23:17] <waigani> ah right
[23:17] <menn0> davecheney: I hadn't noticed that before so it wierded me out
[23:21] <davecheney> menn0: you've not noticed that running the tests uses all your cores ?
[23:23] <davecheney> sorry, that sounded passive agressive
[23:23] <davecheney> what i meant to say is
[23:23] <davecheney> go test .../juju/... would take over an hour if packages were not tested in parallel
[23:25] <menn0> davecheney: I wasn't offended :)
[23:26] <menn0> davecheney: I run tests for the package i'm working on most of the time which just uses one core
[23:26] <menn0> davecheney: for full runs I often start it and walk away so don't really notice core usage


[00:48]  * nhandler MemoServ's kinygos an answer
[08:40] <Book_em_Dano> Does anyone know the correct command to upgrade a computer to the most recent development release?  xubuntu-docs states that the command is gksudo update-manager -c -d, but this is not correct.
[16:43] <cjohnston> nixternal: ping
[16:50] <nixternal> cjohnston: pong
[16:52] <cjohnston> nixternal: don't know if you saw my email to the ML, I was wondering if there was any way I could get you to help me out with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages , more specifically the doc team
[16:55] <nixternal> didn't see the email, i have been whicked busy with personal life. i am a bit busy right now, so maybe you can get someone like mdke, jjesse, or j1mc to help out. sorry about that
[16:56] <cjohnston> If any of the other people who were pinged are around, any love? ;-)
[16:56] <cjohnston> Thanks nixternal
[17:51] <zkriesse> cjohnston: ping
[17:52] <zkriesse> cjohnston: just walked in the door, saw your message...wanna pm or just chat here and explain a bit more about that?
[17:53] <cjohnston> zkriesse: the instructions are pretty much all there.. read the top, look at others which can be used as examples
[17:54] <zkriesse> cjohnston: YOu need help with editing/adding info to the page?
[17:55] <cjohnston> for the doc team
[17:55] <cjohnston> just need the information
[18:36] <AbhiJit> hello
[18:37] <AbhiJit> zkriesse, so how to become memmber of this team and how to write the core docs?
[18:37] <zkriesse> You'd have to ask the leaders
[18:38] <AbhiJit> zkriesse, who are they? :o
[18:38] <AbhiJit> hello leaders!!! :)
[18:38] <zkriesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[18:38] <AbhiJit> oh ok
[18:38] <AbhiJit> zkriesse, thanks!
[18:38] <zkriesse> read that and all it's subpages
[18:39] <AbhiJit> ok
[18:39] <zkriesse> That'll explain it better then I can/have the time to do so
[18:39] <AbhiJit> yah np
[19:26] <jjesse> i think someone asked me a question, don't rmember if they did but can they email me it so i can respond?
[19:27] <zkriesse> jjesse: cjohnston did..
[19:27] <jjesse> cjohnston can you email me your question?  jjesse at gmail DOT com
[19:27] <zkriesse> Well nixternal mentioned your nick in a response to cjohnston's question
[19:27] <zkriesse> cjohnston> nixternal: don't know if you saw my email to the ML, I was wondering if there was any way I could get you to help me out with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages , more specifically the doc team
 didn't see the email, i have been whicked busy with personal life. i am a bit busy right now, so maybe you can get someone like mdke, jjesse, or j1mc to help out. sorry about that
 If any of the other people who were pinged are around, any love? ;-)
 Thanks nixternal
[19:27] <zkriesse> jjesse: ^^
[19:31] <AbhiJit> bye
[21:44] <LjL> does anybody else think the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus#Market Share Myth section might be a *little* loaded?
[22:54] <kinygos> hi...i have a procedure for solving a specific problem to write up, but there is a page that is somewhat related, but doesn't provide enough information (at least for a noob)...in fact it wasn't really useful in my case....should i add a (lengthy) section to that page or create a new page...a key difference in the title will be my solution is especially useful when the server is remote with no access to external me
[22:56] <zkriesse> kinygos: Ok what are you asking on how to do?
[22:59] <kinygos> zkriesse: it took me a week to install RAID 1 on a remote server with ubuntu installed....there's a page on installing RAID on a running system, but it didn't give me anything i really needed to solve the problem
[22:59] <zkriesse> ok'
[23:00] <zkriesse> is this page on help.ubuntu.com/community?
[23:00] <kinygos> zkriesse: yeah
[23:00] <zkriesse> Ok so edit the page to include the neccessary info then!
[23:00] <zkriesse> Just make sure it's properly formatted
[23:00] <zkriesse> If you need help with that just lemme know or ask someone here
[23:01] <kinygos> it will make a real mess of the page...the original author has a process of some kind there, but my process is different (more steps, and in different order cos the server was remote)
[23:02] <zkriesse> Ok just edit it as you can get the info in there and then I'll walk ya through the proper format after it's edited
[23:02] <kinygos> or should write a new page that is specific to a remote server scenario?
[23:03] <kinygos> it's non trivial...installing RAID 1
[23:03] <kinygos> (at least, the chaps in #ubuntu-server didn't think it was easy)
[23:04] <zkriesse> Just do what you think would make it most easy on someone new to doing this/wishing to do so
[23:04] <kinygos> ok, thanks zkriesse
[23:05] <zkriesse> Yep
[23:05] <kinygos> i'll write a new page, and if you think it needs to be merged, i'll do it
[23:05] <kinygos> (so it's my time taken)
[23:05] <zkriesse> After you're done let me know and we'll review it
[23:05] <kinygos> thanks :)
[23:05] <zkriesse> Yup
[23:05] <zkriesse> If you need a page renamed or something let me know about that too because as I wiki admin I can do that


[07:18] <slyon> kathryn: there aren't currently any plans to backport 0.100 to bionic.
[07:19] <slyon> coco3431: yes, bug 1905156 that is. Thanks a lot!
[17:04] <blevot> I'm not really clear on how netplan works with NetworkManager. What happens if you setup a netplan, then someone changes the network settings in the NetworkManager GUI?
[17:05] <blevot> I mean, which setting actually stays persistent and takes effect/
[17:20] <sil2100> blevot: hey! So currently netplan is a one-way generator, so on boot/explicit netplan apply, netplan generates the NM config and applies it to the system
[17:20] <sil2100> So whenever you change something in the NM GUI or via NM DBus, it is not written back to the netplan configuration
[17:21] <sil2100> (and therefore your NM changes will get lost when someone runs `netplan apply` again)
[17:21] <sil2100> There is work ongoing on supporting a two-way functionality with NM, with NM storing its config using the netplan yaml only, such that any changes via the GUI and other NM tooling are still kept in sync with netplan
[17:21] <sil2100> And in that case netplan is the single source of truth
[18:13] <blevot> Is it safe to say that if you configure network interfaces with the NetworkManager GUI the netplan file should remain empty?
[18:14] <blevot> sil2100: Thank you for your response, I got disconnected before I could read it
[18:16] <blevot> Lucky for irclogs. What you just said needs to be on the front page of netplan's website.
[18:24] <blevot> The situation with Ubuntu is so confusing right now. I'm trying to do a post-mortem to understand how I messed up my box so badly.
[18:25] <blevot> So I initially edited /etc/network/interfaces but this didn't work. I assume now that's because ifupdown wasn't installed.
[18:26] <blevot> But afterwards both netplan and NetworkManager wern't doing anything. They were somehow affected by the interfaces file
[18:29] <blevot> So after deleting the interfaces file, I think both netplan and NetworkManager had configurations for the same interface
[18:30] <blevot> What happens in that case? I assume NetworkManager takes priority?


[12:20] <LaserJock> hi guys
[12:20] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock
[12:21] <LaserJock> what a weekend
[12:22] <LaserJock> FLOSS is sometimes a weird and frustrating place
[12:24] <BazziR> LaserJock: what happened?
[12:25] <LaserJock> some stuff
[12:25] <LaserJock> kinda hard to explain
[12:25] <LaserJock> but a fair amount of people got mad at me
[12:25] <BazziR> do it to get it off your mind, that surely helps
[12:26] <LaserJock> and I've closed my first attempt at FLOSS development
[12:26] <no0tic> on dapper I used ipkungfu, but here on edgy it doesn't work, when I try to start it, it exits with bash errors, probably the script is wrong?
[12:26] <LaserJock> didn't even make a first release
[12:26] <no0tic> sorry, probably this is a devel chan...
[12:27] <BazziR> I just started my first FLOSS attempt
[12:27] <BazziR> I hope it will work
[12:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's unfortunate
[12:27] <LaserJock> no0tic: you probably want to look for an already file bug and if you don't find one report it
[12:28] <no0tic> LaserJock, on launchpad.net is ok?
[12:29] <LaserJock> yep
[12:30] <LaserJock> ajmitch: it is, I sure didn't want it to turn out bad
[12:31] <no0tic> LaserJock, ok, filed
[12:32] <minghua> LaserJock: that's okay, the first attempt usually fails :-)
[12:32] <minghua> LaserJock: sorry to hear you having a frustrated weekend though
[12:33] <LaserJock> if it was just me it wouldn't be so bad
[12:33] <LaserJock> but Edubuntu has been attacked a lot as well
[12:35] <crimsun> LaserJock: RE: gallium?
[12:36] <crimsun> (oliver's forwarded e-mail to e-d)
[12:36] <LaserJock> mhm
[12:36] <LaserJock> I've been emailing and IRC'ing for 2 days now
[12:36] <crimsun> the 8th OSI layer, stubborn people.
[12:37] <BazziR> :o
[12:37] <LaserJock> the funny thing is, I've spent more time cleaning up this mess then on the actual project
[12:39] <ivoks> hm... why do you care at all? edubuntu choosed another program; some people aren't happy with that; so what? :)
[12:39] <LaserJock> because I respect their project and what they do for the Linux community
[12:39] <ajmitch> because 'some people' can be very vocal & disruptive
[12:40] <LaserJock> and they were spreading misinformation about Edubuntu
[12:40] <crimsun> imagine if upstream cups decided that everything ubuntu has done was worth nitpicking and maligning
[12:40] <ivoks> lol... well, that happend :)
[12:41] <crimsun> they seem to have calmed somewhat, though
[12:41] <ajmitch> replying to a bug I filed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/63349
[12:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63349 in Ubuntu "Request for inclusion of new package (murrine)" [Undecided,Needs info]
[12:42] <BazziR> oh thats you?
[12:42] <ajmitch> BazziR: I really didn't need to add a package I'd just made to that wiki page :)
[12:42] <BazziR> sorry.
[12:42] <BazziR> but I asked in advance if to reject and I got an ack :)
[12:42] <ajmitch> from who?
[12:42] <BazziR> uh
[12:42] <BazziR> slomo i think
[12:43] <ivoks> crimsun: if you ignore them, they give up
[12:43] <ajmitch> no, I see it - it was hobbsee
[12:43] <ajmitch> I'll talk to her later..
[12:43] <BazziR> oh, ok
[12:44] <BazziR> now that I know your real name it wont happen again :)
[12:44] <BazziR> yeah i guess she didnt or just read the title.
[12:45] <crimsun> woo, go ajmitch. I was just going to submit my own gtk2-engines-murrine (since Xubuntu is considering it)
[12:46] <crimsun> either Murrina-GT4 or Murrina-Gilouche is a candidate
[12:46] <ajmitch> crimsun: you can follow up on the bug then :)
[12:47] <crimsun> now subbed :)
[12:48] <ajmitch> looks like I have to follow up on the copyright issue, which is annoying
[01:23] <gnomefreak> whos is matthias klose?
[01:23] <tseng> gnomefreak: doko
[01:24] <gnomefreak> ah
[01:26] <minghua> ubotu needs a "who is who" feature
[01:27] <tseng> thats what /whois minghua is for
[01:27] <tseng> assuming you are nice enough to set a real name
[01:27] <tseng> which most all developers are
[01:28] <minghua> tseng: but the other way around doesn't work, like both gnomefreak and ajmitch just asked in this channel
[01:28] <minghua> tseng: From real name to IRC nick, that is
[01:28] <jldugger> just look it up in launchpad. launchpad is like facebook for geeks
[01:29] <tseng> i guess
[01:29] <tseng> I just know
[01:29] <tseng> there are only 30 some core-dev members
[01:31] <gnomefreak> that would be too big a data base for ubotu i think
[01:31] <tseng> what, known ubuntu memberS?
[01:31] <tseng> its under 200
[01:33] <minghua> ubotu can just check the launchpad, can't he?  just like what he does with bug numbers or package names
[01:33] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about can just check the launchpad, can't he?  just like what he does with bug numbers or package names - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:33] <tseng> he *could*
[01:33] <tseng> tell seveas if you think its that useful
[01:34] <tseng> i have all the maps in my head
[01:34] <tseng> you could, too
[01:34] <minghua> tseng: sure, I'll ask
[01:34] <minghua> I may look at the code myself, actually
[01:34] <gnomefreak> i would file a bug about it
[01:34] <minghua> because that would be handy for other channels I hang out, too
[01:34] <gnomefreak> since he tells us to do that
[01:46] <minghua> bug #63457, there you go
[01:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63457 in ubuntu-bots "Please add feature to match real name to IRC nick (and vice versa)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63457
[02:03] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[02:08] <Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
[02:12] <LaserJock> holy cow
[02:13] <LaserJock> I found yet another list I'm discussed on
[02:13] <minghua> lol
[02:14] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: link?
[02:14] <Fujitsu> Of course. What list could leave you out? You're too Ubuntuholic to be left out of any list.
[02:15] <LaserJock> I'm on edubuntu-devel, blue-obelisk and  kde-edu-devel
[02:15] <LaserJock> those are the ones I know of so far
[02:16] <LaserJock> plus the ~100 hate mails ogra got :/
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Gallium-related?
[02:16] <LaserJock> yep
[02:16] <LaserJock> ~50 blog comments
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Yeah, they really don't seem to like you guys for that.
[02:17] <LaserJock> The thing is, I hadn't even worked much on Gallium
[02:18] <LaserJock> nobody cares about edubuntu-menus
[02:18] <LaserJock> or MOTU Science stuff
[02:18] <LaserJock> I just dared to start working on a GTK periodic table and all hell breaks loose ;-)
[02:19] <minghua> what did ogra say to get 100 hate mails?
[02:19] <LaserJock> nothing
[02:19] <LaserJock> it was because of me
[02:19] <LaserJock> he had nothing to do with it
[02:20] <LaserJock> s/me/Gallium/
[02:20] <LaserJock> anyway, the storm will pass
[02:21] <LaserJock> I just feel ... like it's all my fault and I never want to work on FLOSS again
[02:22] <LaserJock> but that too will pass, I hope
[02:23] <LaserJock> anyway, enough about that
[02:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: how's MOTU Science looking? besides broken maxima stuff
[02:30] <LaserJock> boy did I kill the party in here or what
[02:32] <minghua> and saw poor ogra getting hammered
[02:37] <LaserJock> hmm, how do I search for channels again?
[02:38] <minghua> "/list #channel-name" is what I use
[02:47] <Hawkwind> LaserJock: /msg chanserv list *search-term*  Make sure you use the *'s
[02:47] <LaserJock> ah yeah
[02:54] <zul> LaserJock: ogra got some threats on his health ie we will find where you live blah blah blah
[02:55] <LaserJock> zul: really? over this?
[02:55] <zul> yeah he was saying that yesterday i think or today dont remember
[02:56] <LaserJock> oh man
[02:56] <LaserJock> I feel terrible
[02:56] <zul> i wouldnt worry about it, he is a big boy
[02:57] <LaserJock> yes, but he had nothing to do with it
[02:58] <LaserJock> my gosh, it's just software
[02:58] <zul> heh thats what i said
[03:01] <LaserJock> well, it looks like I'm going to try to learn some C++
[03:02] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: you are mad
[03:03] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if I'm really mad, perhaps
[03:03] <LaserJock> I'm mad that they are attacking Edubuntu
[03:03] <LaserJock> but I'm mostly sad right now
[03:13] <LaserJock> hi bmonty!
[03:13] <ryanakca> LaserJock: hmm... looking to start C++? try that book in the topic of ##C++... it looks good from what Ive seen of it...
[03:14] <ryanakca> or go out and buy Acelerated C++ (I'm told it's THE best c++ book around)...
[03:14] <LaserJock> thanks for the tips
[03:14] <ryanakca> never seen it
[03:15] <LaserJock> I'm sort of not looking forward to learning it
[03:15] <LaserJock> I haven't even learned Python very well
[03:15] <ryanakca> I am...
[03:15] <ryanakca> lol, we're in the same boat
[03:15] <ryanakca> I can understand source code... but I can't write it...
[03:16] <bmonty> hi LaserJock
[03:16] <LaserJock> oh bugger
[03:16] <ryanakca> I've looked at C, Ruby, Python, PHP, C++... can't seem to stick with one for long though
[03:17] <LaserJock> I'm stuck with Fortran and Python so far
[03:18] <bmonty> ...two extremes in technology
[03:18] <LaserJock> mhm
[03:18] <ryanakca> Ruby is unbelievably simple from what I've seen
[03:18] <ryanakca> lol
[03:19] <ryanakca> http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
[03:19] <LaserJock> somehow I keep trying to convince myself I'm really a software developer and not a chemist ;-)
[03:21] <bmonty> LaserJock: is there much of a difference in the technical areas?
[03:21] <bmonty> I'm a EE and I spend a lot of time coding
[03:21] <bmonty> BTW, I noticed we have been working on similar things this weekend :)
[03:22] <crimsun> ruby is ridiculous. I keep wanting to teach stuff in Java (to abide by our curriculum standards), but I end up using Ruby and Python
[03:23] <LaserJock> bmonty: well, I'm an experimentalist
[03:23] <LaserJock> if I was a theoretical chemist I'd say yes
[03:23] <LaserJock> but I could do virtually all my work with very little computer interaction
[03:23] <bmonty> LaserJock: you don't write code to run your lab instruments?
[03:24] <LaserJock> bmonty: I do, but I'm the only one it the department that does
[03:24] <LaserJock> because i like to
[03:24] <LaserJock> I'm the only one that doesn't use LabView
[03:25] <LaserJock> wow, this maxima debdiff is really strange
[03:25] <LaserJock> what the heck did we do
[03:25] <bmonty> LaserJock: looks like we have both been playing with wordpress :)
[03:26] <LaserJock> where's your blog?
[03:26] <bmonty> LaserJock: www.montynet.org
[03:27] <LaserJock> haha
[03:28] <bmonty> :)
[03:32] <LaserJock> bmonty: I've even got drupal sorta started for my main site
[03:32] <bmonty> cool
[03:32] <LaserJock> and of course the domain
[03:32] <bmonty> I decided to make wordpress my main site since it looks like it can do pretty much everything I want
[03:33] <LaserJock> my first domain since I was like 14
[03:33] <LaserJock> yeah, I debated about it, but I really wanted to seperate blog from site
[03:33] <ryanakca> back... they had an interesting news clip playing on CBC :)
[03:34] <bmonty> LaserJock: once I figured out how to integrate gallery into wordpress I completely ditched my old site
[03:34] <ryanakca> LaserJock: chemist... chemist = pharmasist? or chemist = chemistry/science/research stuff?
[03:35] <LaserJock> ryanakca: yeah, chemist = chemistry research
[03:35] <ryanakca> ah, kk, so I take it your north american :)
[03:35] <LaserJock> yes
[03:36] <LaserJock> perhaps I should correct that for the "silly" people
[03:36] <LaserJock> what do they call chemists there
[03:36] <LaserJock> I wonder
[03:36] <ryanakca> no clue... like our vocabulary makes sense...
[03:36] <ryanakca> flat vs apartment?
[03:37] <ryanakca> crisp vs potato chip?
[03:37] <bmonty> yeah I was going to say...probably the same thing in order to maximize confusion
[03:37] <ryanakca> sweets vs candy?
[03:37] <bmonty> loo vs toilet?
[03:37] <ryanakca> yeah
[03:37] <LaserJock> well, I think it makes sense to say that a chemist does chemistry
[03:37] <LaserJock> so I'm a little unsure of what they call them
[03:37] <ryanakca> bmonty: they call pharmasists drugists and chemists... depends what part of britain your in
[03:37] <bmonty> same here
[03:38] <bmonty> where I grew up, you get your stuff from the store in a "bag"
[03:38] <bmonty> here you get it in a "sack"
[03:38] <bmonty> here = midwest
[03:38] <bmonty> Us
[03:38] <LaserJock> heh, and lets not even get started on what Coca-Cola is ;-)
[03:38] <ryanakca> you get stuff from the store in a grocery bag..
[03:39] <ryanakca> Coca-Cola = Coke...
[03:39] <bmonty> I did a big double take the first time someone asked me "would you like a sack?"
[03:39] <ryanakca> noname coke imitations = cola
[03:39] <ryanakca> pepsi = pepsi... to me at least
[03:39] <bmonty> heh...any carbonated beverage (with the exception of beer) is a coke in the south
[03:39] <LaserJock> pop vs. soda vs. cok
[03:39] <ryanakca> lol
[03:40] <crimsun> actually, no.
[03:40] <LaserJock> for me it was always pop
[03:40] <bmonty> crimsun: you are in Texas, right?
[03:40] <crimsun> we're extremely specific when it comes to soda, i.e., people will kill you if they ask for a coke and you bring a pepsi
[03:40] <crimsun> bmonty: N.C.
[03:41] <LaserJock> sure
[03:41] <bmonty> crimsun: must be your part then....in Alabama they look at you weird if you ask for anything else
[03:41] <LaserJock> but some people coke=any soda
[03:41] <ryanakca> soda = soda water, ginger ale and stuff like that, pop = root beer, crush, club soda, etc. cola = coke, pepsi, noname imitations
[03:41] <bmonty> of course that might be just because it is Alabama
[03:41] <crimsun> bmonty: right, and it's even different in GA, SC, TN, FL, ...
[03:42] <ryanakca> coke is dark, and made by coca-cola. pepsi != coke. cola != coke
[03:43] <bmonty> ryanakca: you guys drive on the wrong side of the road...I'd fix that before the vocabulary for drinks :)
[03:43] <ryanakca> bmonty: right side of the road = wrong side of the road?
[03:43] <ryanakca> heh, people in the UK drive on the wrong side of the road...
[03:46] <zul> crimsun: isnt it called pop?
[03:46] <crimsun> hah
[03:49] <LaserJock> zul: of course
[04:10] <ryanakca> Toadstool: heh, never knew you spoke french... after 5 times of massive ping everybody in a chanelling pingdom, people tend to be in a bad mood
[04:10] <Toadstool> hehe
[04:10] <ryanakca> hence my 'I recommend 'rm -fr /' to trolls' comment :P
[04:11] <Toadstool> 'evening everybody
[04:11] <Toadstool> g'night then
[04:17] <ajmitch> afternoon
[04:17] <Toadstool> :)
[04:18] <LaserJock> bummer ajmitch
[04:25] <imbrandon> moins all
[04:26] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon
[04:27] <imbrandon> heya LaserJock
[04:28] <Toadstool> hey imbrandon
[04:28] <imbrandon> ello Toadstool
[04:28] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon
[04:28] <imbrandon> hiya ajmitch
[04:29] <imbrandon> welp i guess we find out tomarrow whom is sponsored to the dev summit ;)
[04:29] <LaserJock> man, maxima takes forever to compile, no wonder people don't want to work on it ;-)
[04:29] <Toadstool> heh
[04:29] <ajmitch> yay, getting a free DSL upgrade
[04:29] <imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
[04:29] <ajmitch> should be around about 6Mbps/1Mbps after this
[04:29] <ajmitch> depending on how close I am to exchange
[04:30] <imbrandon> very cool , thats about what i have
[04:30] <imbrandon> i love it
[04:30] <ajmitch> I currently have 3.5/512
[04:30] <imbrandon> nice
[04:30] <ajmitch> with a 20GB cap
[04:30] <ajmitch> cap will be 30GB in the upgrade
[04:30] <ajmitch> still quite low
[04:30] <imbrandon> mine is advetised at 8/1 i actually get about 6/768
[04:31] <imbrandon> with no cap though
[04:31] <imbrandon> yea the cap is what kills yall ( au / nz )
[04:31] <imbrandon> imho
[04:31] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:31] <ajmitch> meils from anywhere
[04:32] <ajmitch> sigh
[04:32] <ajmitch> s/meils/miles/
[04:32] <imbrandon> StevenK, wow cool
[04:32] <StevenK> It helps that downloads from midnight to midday aren't counted.
[04:32] <ajmitch> StevenK: I share the connection with 4 others
[04:32] <ajmitch> and I don't have an off-peak download time
[04:32] <ajmitch> yay, xen 3.0.3~rc1
[04:32] <imbrandon> StevenK, ahh thats nice ( m to m )
[04:32] <Plug> ajmitch: which ISP?
[04:32] <imbrandon> makes it at leaste better
[04:33] <ajmitch> Plug: maxnet
[04:33] <Plug> I changed from them to qsi.  Who are about 1/2 the speed :(
[04:33] <imbrandon> ahhh new xen ;( /me wants to play with it ....
[04:33] <ajmitch> Plug: ah, shame - apparantly telecon have finally opened things up a bit more
[04:33] <Plug> yeah
[04:33] <Plug> I can change again
[04:33] <Plug> I'd go to xnet myself
[04:34] <ajmitch> Plug: why'd you switch?
[04:34] <Plug> -> #ubuntu-nz
[04:34] <lastnode> imbrandon, for the l18n of Upstream, is there a prefferred to Ubuntu py library?
[04:35] <imbrandon> lastnode, hum not sure, i'm sure there is but i dont know it, look at the ubiguity kde frontend
[04:35] <imbrandon> its in py and i18l stuff
[04:35] <lastnode> cheers
[04:35] <imbrandon> err i18n
[04:36] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:37] <imbrandon> is there a local AU mirror you can use StevenK  that dont count to your cap either ?
[04:37] <StevenK> imbrandon: Nope, which is a pity.
[04:37] <imbrandon> i've seen that alot, that places that do have caps tend to mirror quite a bit of stuff uncapped
[04:37] <imbrandon> wow yea that sucks
[04:38] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[04:39] <ajmitch> ah, Hobbsee...
[04:39] <LaserJock> what the?!?!?!
[04:39] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ?!?
[04:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: what now?
[04:40] <LaserJock> I just rebuilt maxima in my edgy pbuilder and it works!
[04:40] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's good, perhaps it was built against old libraries?
[04:40] <crimsun> now now, be gentle, ajmitch
[04:40] <imbrandon> heya crimsun
[04:40] <LaserJock> perhaps, but I don't know what
[04:40] <crimsun> 'lo imbrandon
[04:41] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: bug 63449
[04:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63449 in dapper-backports "Gcompris is out of date on Ubuntu Dapper - please backport ver. 7.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63449
[04:41] <ajmitch> sorry, not that one
[04:41] <LaserJock> oh, that's a good one though
[04:41] <ajmitch> bug 63349
[04:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63349 in Ubuntu "Request for inclusion of new package (murrine)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63349
[04:41] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon ajmitch
[04:41] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I have a complaint..
[04:42] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: do you now?
[04:42] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes
[04:42] <ajmitch> you said that bug should be rejected
[04:42] <Hobbsee> oops
[04:42] <ajmitch> naughty Hobbsee
[04:42] <Hobbsee> i thought it was in the wrong place
[04:43] <ajmitch> you never read the bug
[04:43] <Hobbsee> point
[04:43] <ajmitch> don't tell people to reject things when you don't even bother to read it :P
[04:43] <Hobbsee> fine, you do it,  i took a guess
[04:44] <ajmitch> I filed it
[04:44] <ajmitch> I'm hardly going to reject a bug I filed, am I?
[04:44] <Plug> https://launchpad.net/products/dapper-backports/+bug/58544
[04:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58544 in dapper-backports "clamav 0.88.4" [High,Fix released]
[04:44] <Plug> so - where was the fix released to?
[04:44] <imbrandon> Plug, probably dapper-backports from the looks of it
[04:44] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: okay, point.
[04:45] <Plug> imbrandon: yeah, sure: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-backports/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz doesnt mention it :)
[04:45] <imbrandon> Plug, ahh ok, i was just going off the title ;)
[04:45] <imbrandon> Plug, lemme poke arround , one sec
[04:45] <Plug> imbrandon: cheers
[04:46] <crimsun> Plug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
[04:46] <crimsun> 2nd page, actually
[04:46] <Plug> crimsun: that means it is still sitting in the queue to build?
[04:47] <crimsun> no, binary NEW
[04:47] <crimsun> they've already built
[04:47] <imbrandon> Plug, thats the NEW queue for binary
[04:47] <imbrandon> yea what crimsun said
[04:47] <Plug> How do things move from NEW to archive?
[04:47] <crimsun> admin accepts
[04:47] <imbrandon> Plug, on tuesdays and fridays archive admins go through and approve them
[04:47] <Plug> right - makes sense. cheers to you both!
[04:48] <LaserJock> Tuesdays? I thought it was Thursday
[04:48] <LaserJock> accept all the crack at the end of the week ;-)
[04:48] <imbrandon> hum tue afaik, i might have to lookup the email
[04:48] <imbrandon> hehe
[04:49] <Plug> Can I DL from the build queue?
[04:49] <ajmitch> nope
[04:50] <LaserJock> hmm, Package cache file corrupted
[04:51] <LaserJock> what fixes that?
[04:51] <imbrandon> LaserJock, apt-get clean possibly ?
[04:51] <imbrandon> or s/clean/autoclean/
[04:51] <tuxmaniac> Someone here told me something?
[04:52] <tuxmaniac> I got dc
[04:52] <tuxmaniac> disconnected I mean
[04:52] <LaserJock> hmm, I already did autoclean
[04:52] <Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: you didnt miss anything
[04:52] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hum , its it where apt-get segfaults right away ?
[04:52] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> Any suggestions?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: no, but i dont know what you're after
[04:53] <imbrandon> LaserJock, i had that a few days ago, dunno what causes it, the only way i could fix it was to download a apt-get deb and downgrade then reupgrade ( apt-get dist-upgrade )
[04:53] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> I upgraded to edgy
[04:53] <imbrandon> LaserJock, i never did figure it out the cause
[04:53] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> but ubuntu-desktop
[04:53] <tuxmaniac> got removed and does not seem to have got installed
[04:53] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it's not a problem
[04:53] <LaserJock> it just gives me a warning
[04:53] <LaserJock> eveything works fine
[04:54] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh mine was segfaulting, might be a diffrent issue
[04:54] <Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: ahh.  with apt-get, or with the update manager?
[04:54] <tuxmaniac> I tried to manually install ubuntu-desktop but says it depends on xorg and xorg is not gonna be installed
[04:54] <tuxmaniac> apt-get
[04:54] <minghua> I've seen that apt bug
[04:54] <tuxmaniac> :|
[04:54] <StevenK> Try to manually install xorg
[04:54] <minghua> something about your /var/cache/apt/*.bin cache files
[04:54] <tuxmaniac> sudo apt-get install xorg?
[04:54] <imbrandon> sudo apt-get install xorg
[04:55] <minghua> move them out of way and try apt-get again
[04:56] <tuxmaniac> looks like that.. it says now liggl1-mesa-dri needs to be installed but is not.. Broken packages
[04:56] <Hobbsee> then keep going thru till you find what's broken
[04:57] <tuxmaniac> Can I do a apt-get -f install ?
[04:57] <LaserJock> ok, so do you think I could file a bug for a rebuild or do I need to upload a Xbuild1?
[04:58] <Plug> New version specified (0.88.4-1ubuntu1~dapper1) is less than the current version number (0.88.4-1ubuntu1)
[04:58] <Plug> I thought ~ was designed for fixing that?
[04:58] <LaserJock> Plug: I believe so
[04:59] <crimsun> 0.88.4-1ubuntu1 doesn't exist in dapper
[04:59] <Plug> No, I'm backporting from edgy
[04:59] <LaserJock> right
[04:59] <LaserJock> so ~ works
[05:00] <Plug> Just not today
[05:00] <Plug> I'm sure this has worked before
[05:00] <crimsun> 0.88.4-1ubuntu1 is in edgy. Are you trying to install the dapper backport in an edgy chroot or something?
[05:00] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what you're doing
[05:00] <imbrandon> Plug, that statement is correct, that way when you backoport something and then its uopgraded to the "real" version in edgy it will be replaced
[05:01] <Plug> I've got the source and I'm backporting it myself.  dpkg -x *.dsc; dch -v version~dapper1; dpkg-buildpackage.
[05:01] <LaserJock> k
[05:02] <imbrandon> and dch -v is giving you problems ?> manualy edit it , dch might not be smart yet
[05:02] <crimsun> well, right, so you'd have to adjust the previous changelog entr{ies,y}
[05:02] <imbrandon> but apt knows
[05:02] <Plug> Thats a plausible answer :)
[05:12] <LaserJock> hmmm
[05:13] <LaserJock> so now I need to figure out how to fix maxima in dapper
[05:13] <lastnode> imbrandon, we're having a meeting tomorrow (Monday 2330UTC), and you're invited. im sure you're busy, just wanted to let you know. agenda is here - http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Meetings/Developer/20061002
[05:14] <imbrandon> lastnode, sure, i'll try to make it , cant promis but i'll do my best
[05:14] <lastnode> sure, just a heads up, mate.
[05:18] <bddebian> LaserJock: Did it get fixed in Edgy?
[05:19] <LaserJock> bddebian: yes
[05:19] <bddebian> LaserJock: From a newer version or did someone figure it out?
[05:19] <LaserJock> I just rebuild from source
[05:19] <LaserJock> I have no idea what happened
[05:20] <minghua> bascially Works for LaserJock(TM) :-)
[05:20] <LaserJock> .deb from repos doesn't work, .deb I rebuild from source works
[05:20] <bddebian> Hmm
[05:21] <LaserJock> actually
[05:22] <LaserJock> we did get a new maxima and gcl
[05:22] <LaserJock> since last I tried
[05:22] <crimsun> a new gcl version was just released, too
[05:22] <LaserJock> I don't think i'ts maxima
[05:22] <LaserJock> *it's
[05:23] <LaserJock> the new maxima version was a NMU for an automake thing
[05:30] <imbrandon> sudo dpkg -i ibm-j2re1.5_1.5.0_powerpc.deb
[05:30] <imbrandon> gah
[05:31] <LaserJock> hmmm
[05:31] <LaserJock> crimsun: I found this, "Fix socket write error" in gcl 2.6.7-21
[05:32] <bddebian> Oohh, that could do it
[05:33] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
[05:33] <LaserJock> I think i'll try backporting gcl to dapper and rebuild maxima
[05:34] <Fujitsu> Aha, that does look very suspicious.
[05:34] <LaserJock> what I don't get is why it worked in Debian
[05:35] <crimsun> did all previous pbuilt (dapper) versions work?
[05:35] <LaserJock> previous to what?
[05:35] <Fujitsu> 'cause Debian's crazy and has this great aura which ensures that everything works.
[05:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: meaning all versions you've pbuilt
[05:36] <LaserJock> crimsun: this is the first one I've tried that worked
[05:36] <minghua> hmm, pbuild is a verb now...?
[05:36] <zakame> hmm the FOSS is working :P
[05:36] <zakame> hi all anyway :)
[05:36] <Fujitsu> minghua, has been for years.
[05:36] <crimsun> minghua: for space-saving reasons ;)
[05:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: ah.
[05:37] <LaserJock> dapper is still broken, afaik
[05:37] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[05:37] <minghua> Fujitsu, crimsun: :-)
[05:38] <zakame> yo bddebian
[05:39] <LaserJock> ok
[05:39] <LaserJock> so I'm just rebuilding dapper's version with what's in the repos
[05:39] <LaserJock> that should not work
[05:39] <LaserJock> then I'll backport gcl and try again
[05:39] <LaserJock> sound reasonable?
[05:40] <bddebian> yep
[05:40] <minghua> sounds good (especially when you are looking for is "should not work" :-)
[05:41] <LaserJock> good thing I didn't dist upgrade my last dapper machine ;-)
[05:51] <LaserJock> ok, not working upon rebuild
[05:52] <imbrandon> thats a good thing(tm) right ?
[05:52] <LaserJock> yep
[05:52] <imbrandon> crimsun, have you ever used java-package ?
[05:52] <LaserJock> at least it's still broken like I thought ;-)
[05:52] <crimsun> yes
[05:53] <imbrandon> ahh the ibm java packages in plf dont have a source package but they say they are buildt with java-package
[05:53] <imbrandon> is that some autocrack like checkinstall ?
[05:53] <minghua> java-package doesn't require source
[05:54] <minghua> it's better than checkinstall, more like equivs
[05:54] <crimsun> java-package is far more sane
[05:54] <imbrandon> e.g. This package has been automatically created with java-package (0.27).
[05:54] <imbrandon> for the ibm-java jre
[05:55] <imbrandon> hum , i wonder if the ibm license will allow it to be in multiverse
[05:55] <minghua> java-package has sane control file and {pre,post}{inst,rm} scripts
[05:55] <crimsun> we need 0.28.
[05:55] <crimsun> [http://packages.qa.debian.org/j/java-package/news/20060816T001750Z.html]
[05:55] <bddebian> Or we could just purge *java* from the archives :)
[05:56] <imbrandon> bddebian, heh
[05:57] <imbrandon> crimsun, looks syncable
[05:58] <crimsun> being native, yeah.
[06:00] <imbrandon> i guess i'm still kinda wondering why its needed/used to make the ibm packages
[06:02] <imbrandon> and do we have a list like debian-legale to ask about putting ibm java in multiverse ( or maybe -commercial )
[06:02] <Fujitsu> Or can we put Java in /dev/null?
[06:02] <Fujitsu> That's a more appropriate place.
[06:02] <bddebian> heh
[06:03] <zakame> most appropriate?
[06:03] <crimsun> honestly it would be lovely if ibm's jdk1.5 were in dapper-commercial
[06:03] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:12] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Ok. My X is screwed :D
[06:12] <ThiefOfBaghdad> I am on irssi
[06:12] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Can someone say how to recitfy this problem
[06:12] <ThiefOfBaghdad> The error is it says X has been build for 2.6.15
[06:13] <ThiefOfBaghdad> but the running version is 2.6.17
[06:13] <ThiefOfBaghdad> and X window is unable to boot up
[06:14] <Toadstool> yeeha! bcm43xx 0 - Toadstool 1
[06:14] <bddebian> heh
[06:14] <Toadstool> hey bddebian
[06:14] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[06:15] <ThiefOfBaghdad> bddebian: grrr.. Laughing at me?? :|
[06:15] <bddebian> ThiefOfBaghdad: No, Toadstool :)
[06:15] <ThiefOfBaghdad> bddebian: Any solution for me ??? :D
[06:16] <ThiefOfBaghdad> No X and the error is up
[06:16] <bddebian> ThiefOfBaghdad: No, I'm outta of the loop lately, sorry :-(
[06:16] <Toadstool> ThiefOfBaghdad: have you asked on #ubuntu?
[06:16] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Toadstool: its for Dapper right?
[06:16] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Whats for ubuntu+1 ?
[06:17] <Toadstool> #ubuntu-testing no?
[06:17] <Toadstool> at least there is a #ubuntu-fr-testing chan :p
[06:18] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Toadstool: bah
[06:40] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:41] <imbrandon> gnight bddebian
[06:58] <LaserJock> hmm, gcl takes forever to build
[06:58] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:58] <LaserJock> I just *had* to pick gcl and maxima to build
[06:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, that's fortunate.
[06:59] <Fujitsu> People should be dissuaded from using LISP as much as possible.
[06:59] <LaserJock> you know, one of the first merges I ever did was wxwidgets2.6
[06:59] <Fujitsu> And making the compiler take forever to compile is helping that cause.
[06:59] <LaserJock> I should have known then
[07:01] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess it's probably been a little less then 20 min.
[07:01] <LaserJock> oh wait
[07:01] <ajmitch> oh good, the debian dinstall run happened today
[07:02] <LaserJock> haha
[07:02] <LaserJock> 1 hr and 20 mins ;-)
[07:02] <minghua> 20 min is a long build?
[07:03] <LaserJock> I miss read the clock
[07:03] <minghua> that's better
[07:03] <minghua> my package takes 20 mins to build on my machine
[07:03] <minghua> (although it's usually 3-5 mins on fast buildds)
[07:03] <zakame> which pkg?
[07:04] <minghua> zakame: scim
[07:04] <zakame> ah
[07:05] <minghua> I have a 1GHz AMD Athlon by the way
[07:05] <LaserJock> heh
[07:06] <LaserJock> if I was doing it on my 1.3GHz P4 it'd take much longer
[07:06] <LaserJock> thank goodness it's the weekend and I can use my laptop
[07:07] <LaserJock> but then I need to rebuild maxima with this gcl
[07:12] <minghua> hmm, time to put my packaging envrionments to a faster machine, it seems
[07:13] <minghua> but then again, m68k builld spends 9 hours to build scim, so I'm not complaining for what I have now :-P
[07:13] <LaserJock> ouch
[07:15] <minghua> LaserJock: It may happen to be a slow buildd, I don't check buildd log frequently
[07:45] <LaserJock> hmm, what is a good way to build .debs withing a pbuilder login?
[07:45] <LaserJock> dpkg-buildpackage in unpacked source?
[07:46] <LaserJock> do I need fakeroot for that as I'm logged into the chroot as root
[07:49] <Lathiat> dpkg-buildpackage yeh
[07:49] <Lathiat> fakeroot only needed if your not otherwise root
[07:51] <LaserJock> hmm, I found a script the other day to get build deps when logged in too but now I can't find it
[07:51] <Lathiat> /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends :)
[07:52] <LaserJock> ah thanks
[07:55] <LaserJock> hmm, now this isn't making sense
[07:59] <LaserJock> do I run pbuilder-satisfydepends from within the chroot?
[08:02] <imbrandon> LaserJock, why cant you just run "apt-get build-dep package" in the pbuilder login / chroot ?
[08:03] <LaserJock> well, it isn't necessarily in the apt cache
[08:03] <imbrandon> pbuilder login has network access afaik
[08:03] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes, it does.
[08:03] <LaserJock> no
[08:03] <imbrandon> LaserJock, umm why not ?
[08:04] <LaserJock> my point is, the package I"m trying to build might not be in the apt-repo
[08:04] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh then in that case i just install them by hand in the chroot
[08:04] <imbrandon> never seen an automatic way, myself
[08:04] <LaserJock> this command is supposed to do it for me
[08:04] <LaserJock> I used it the other day
[08:04] <LaserJock> but now I'm confused
[08:04] <LaserJock> must be late
[08:05] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:05] <imbrandon> 1am
[08:05] <imbrandon> well 11pm for you
[08:05] <LaserJock> mhm
[08:05] <imbrandon> hrm its what 6am utc ?
[08:06] <Fujitsu> Yeh.
[08:06] <imbrandon> heh i'm getting used to useing this laptop
[08:06] <LaserJock> ok, of it goes
[08:06] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, did you get maxima sorted out?
[08:07] <imbrandon> got some external speakers and a mouse hooked to it and i'm good ;)
[08:07] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i think thats what hs is working on
[08:07] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: working on it
[08:07] <nixternal> imbrandon: are you using osx?
[08:07] <Lathiat> ah ydh need to install gcl to compile maxima?
[08:07] <Fujitsu> Ah, goodo.
[08:07] <LaserJock> gcl too like almost 2 hrs to build
[08:07] <imbrandon> nixternal, no ubuntu
[08:07] <Lathiat> i've done that manually perviously
[08:07] <nixternal> ahh
[08:07] <nixternal> k
[08:07] <imbrandon> nixternal, ubnutu on the ibook
[08:07] <nixternal> need someone with that stoopid osx browser to look at my blog layout
[08:08] <imbrandon> i cant use osx to do real work hehe i just like it for medioa
[08:08] <nixternal> rastafari or whatever it is called ;)
[08:08] <imbrandon> safari , and i use firefox on osx anyhow
[08:08] <imbrandon> when i do login to osx
[08:08] <nixternal> people with IE get kicked when they try to look at my blog now ;)
[08:08] <Fujitsu> nixternal, hahah, good idea.
[08:09] <nixternal> my layout is like OK, but it doesn't do it for me just yet
[08:09] <nixternal> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org
[08:09] <imbrandon> i dont want to kick them from mine but a big firefox download page redirect would be nice
[08:09] <nixternal> well, they don't get kicked, but they get a page where they can download Firefox, look at Konqi, Epiphany, Ubuntu *all of um...Open Source and FSF info
[08:10] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:10] <nixternal> i should embed a trojan in the antiie.html page ;)
[08:10] <nixternal> i must get my own domain at some point ;)
[08:10] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, if / when you do i can do the hosting for you
[08:11] <imbrandon> if you wish
[08:11] <imbrandon> i have quite a lot of extra bandwidth
[08:11] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:11] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, I might take you up on that, but I've got the ubuntu.com.au server at my disposal, and it already hosts blogs for a few members of other LoCo teams...
[08:12] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:12] <Fujitsu> And I've been looking for a good domain, but fujitsu.* and williamgrant.* are pretty much all taken, unfortunately :(
[08:12] <imbrandon> imfujitsu.com ;) lol just teasin
[08:13] <Fujitsu> imwilliam!
[08:13] <Fujitsu> Yay.
[08:13] <Fujitsu> Or not.
[08:13] <imbrandon> lol
[08:13] <nixternal> haha
[08:14] <Fujitsu> Hm, williamgrant.ca is available... Although they have restrictions on them (ie. you have to be a citizen or registered business), but I am a citizen anyway... Or fujitsu.id.au, or williamgrant.id.au...
[08:14] <Fujitsu> But none of them are particularly great domains :(
[08:15] <imbrandon> yea
[08:16] <imbrandon> StevenK, whats yours ? i dident know you ran a site
[08:17] <StevenK> wedontsleep.org
[08:17] <Lathiat> heh
[08:17] <imbrandon> ahh cool
[08:19] <minghua> nice name
[08:26] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee:
[08:27] <tuxmaniac> Some one willing to share their gdm.conf file? I mean after an edgy upgrade? Looks like gdm is fscked up actually
[08:42] <tuxmaniac> Booo hooooo.. On edgy
[08:42] <tuxmaniac> X running
[08:52] <LaserJock> \o/
[08:52] <LaserJock> it works!!!
[08:54] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ^^
[08:54] <Fujitsu> Yay :)
[08:54] <Fujitsu> So the new gcl fixed it?
[08:54] <LaserJock> yep
[08:54] <Fujitsu> Hahah :)
[08:54] <LaserJock> xmaxima and wxmaxima work fine
[08:54] <Fujitsu> Woohoo.
[08:54] <LaserJock> sooo
[08:55] <Fujitsu> Now to convince people that that wants to be in -updates.
[08:55] <LaserJock> we need to get maxima rebuilt in edgy
[08:55] <Fujitsu> Do you want to do that, or shall I?
[08:55] <LaserJock> I think we should be able to find the patch in gcl and apply it to dapper's gcl I think
[08:56] <LaserJock> go for it
[08:56] <Fujitsu> Hopefully...
[08:56] <LaserJock> I need to go to bed
[08:56] <Fujitsu> We're presuming it was the socket writing fix?
[08:56] <Fujitsu> OK, so just maxima wants rebuilding?
[08:56] <LaserJock> well, it's not a new upstream version
[08:56] <Fujitsu> Not {w,}xmaxima?
[08:56] <LaserJock> so maybe we can just grab the edgy version
[08:56] <LaserJock> no
[08:56] <LaserJock> maxima was having the problem
[08:57] <Fujitsu> Thought so.
[08:57] <Fujitsu> The proper gcl is in Edgy, I presume...
[08:58] <Fujitsu> Ah, there.
[09:03] <Fujitsu> The symptom of the maxima fault is a connection error, no?
[10:03] <imbrandon> ahhhh food , bbiab
[10:04] <imbrandon> whoop it got quiet in here
[10:04] <zakame> wb dholbach
[10:04] <imbrandon> moins dholbach
[10:04] <zakame> yo imbrandon
[10:05] <imbrandon> sup zakame
[10:05] <dholbach> good morning
[10:05] <dholbach> hey zakame, imbrandon!
[10:05] <zakame> imbrandon: here pretty much learning C++
[10:05] <zakame> picking it up again after 5 years
[10:05] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:06] <imbrandon> ok dinners cooked, brb
[10:11] <LaserJock> oh man, dholbach is up? I need to go to bed
[10:11] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: indeed
[10:12] <imbrandon> heh
[10:12] <dholbach> LaserJock:  and I was running already !!  :-)
[10:59] <Fujitsu> What are my chances of getting numpy 1.0 in (it'll be released on the 17th of October >_<)? Almost 0, I'd presume, although the current version is 1.0rc1.
[11:00] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: depends on how many bugs were fixed
[11:00] <Fujitsu> You're still up!?
[11:00] <LaserJock> if the new upstream is mostly bug fixes and not a bunch of new features it stands a good chance
[11:00] <LaserJock> going to be now
[11:00] <LaserJock> 2:00am here
[11:01] <Fujitsu> I believe it'll be all bug fixes.
[11:01] <Fujitsu> Goodnight, although you said you were going to bed about 2 hours ago.
[11:01] <LaserJock> did I?
[11:01] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:01] <LaserJock> I should have for sure
[11:01] <Fujitsu> Well, you said you needed to go to bed 2:05 ago:
 I need to go to bed
[11:02] <LaserJock> ugg
[11:02] <LaserJock> that's bad
[11:02] <Fujitsu> It does, but it doesn't copy them.
[11:07] <minghua> I think it's just LaserJock keep saying he needs to go to bed
[11:07] <minghua> and Fujitsu didn't pick up the most recent one :-)
[11:08] <Fujitsu> minghua, at 08:11:23?
[11:08] <Fujitsu> Be back in a bit, dinner.
[11:09] <minghua> Fujitsu: (my 3:07, UTC-0500) <LaserJock> oh man, dholbach is up? I need to go to bed
[11:09] <minghua> hmm, dholbach, sorry for the highlight
[11:10] <dholbach> minghua: that's part of LasterJock's and crimsun's race who can stay up longer :-/
[11:13] <minghua> Hmm, numpy is already 1.0rc1 in debian/ubuntu, very nice
[11:32] <xerxas> Hi
[11:38] <crimsun> dholbach: bah.
[11:39] <minghua> so crimsun won, I see
[11:40] <Fujitsu> minghua, that's the one I mentioned.
[11:41] <Fujitsu> minghua, of course it's in Ubuntu, I made sure of that (it was a few days before Debian).
[11:41] <Fujitsu> It was really bad timing, Debian released rc1 like a day after UniverseFreeze.
[11:41] <minghua> Fujitsu: I don't know if it's really worth it
[11:42] <Fujitsu> What's not worth it?
[11:42] <minghua> Fujitsu: of course if you really want to spend time on that, nobody can say no
[11:42] <minghua> Fujitsu: getting 1.0 release in edgy
[11:42] <minghua> the time is too tight
[11:42] <Fujitsu> It didn't take more than half an hour to do, and a number of people had requested it.
[11:43] <minghua> Fujitsu: yeah, getting 1.0rc1 in is worth it
[11:44] <minghua> Fujitsu: I am talking about 1.0 (scheduled to be released on 17th)
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[01:03] <tuxmaniac> heya gang
[01:14] <zakame> yo tortoise_
[01:48] <fatal__> please import the latest bandwidthd from debian unstable, the -6 version you currently have is broken.
[01:57] <minghua> fatal__: is there a bug open?  if no, please file one
[02:00] <minghua> fatal__: and thanks for reporting it to us
[02:01] <minghua> (now that I see you are the Debian maintainer)
[02:06] <minghua> Hmm, I am going to bed
[02:06] <tortoise_> yo zakame
[02:07] <minghua> if fatal__ responds, someone please help him filing a UVF exception request for bandwidthd
[02:07] <minghua> I'll check tomorrow if I remember, and do it myself if no one else did
[02:08] <minghua> good night everyone
[02:08] <fatal__> I've written up a bug... submitting it now. Whats a UVF?
[02:09] <azeem> fatal__: upstream version freeze
[02:09] <fatal__> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bandwidthd/+bug/63548
[02:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63548 in bandwidthd "Please update to the latest version from Debian Unstable - Edgys -6 version is miserably broken." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[02:11] <azeem> that should be fine, it's not an upstream version change
[02:34] <StevenK> Hum.
[02:34] <StevenK>  /usr/sbin/airmon-ng from aircrack-ng is a #!/bin/sh, but it is full of bashisms.
[03:41] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:36] <tuxmaniac> ok. Looks like I have figured out the problem
[04:36] <tuxmaniac> Anybody around got this gnome-setings-daemon unable to load error when you enter the Edgy Desktop?
[04:53] <phanatic> good afternoon
[05:32] <jdong> what's the MOTU policy on deviating from upstream?
[05:32] <jdong> for our acidrip packages, I'd like to change the default xvid options to more match the lavc ones
[05:33] <jdong> (namely, take mplayer.hu's high-quality xvid recommendations)
[05:35] <Riddell> jdong: if it's the best thing to do then deviation from upstream is fine
[05:36] <jdong> Riddell: thanks for the advice. I'm still doing abit more testing on exactly how much encoding time this adds on, but so far it looks like it's well worth the gains
[06:13] <xopher> How do I apply .diff.gz file to original tar.gz?
[06:15] <Riddell> xopher: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
[06:15] <Riddell> which is in devscripts
[06:15] <xopher> thanks
[06:15] <xopher> uhm, dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file type - `linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17_<IP_ADDRESS>-6.1.diff.gz'
[06:16] <jdong> ok, I've got the patch made for acidrip.... would a kind motu soul like to upload it for me?
[06:16] <jdong> xopher: umm, *.dsc?
[06:16] <xopher> jdong, I did it on the .dsc, but this is what I get
[06:16] <jdong> xopher: that usually means your diff.gz file is corrupted
[06:16] <xopher> ok, well Ill double check it
[06:20] <bipolar> do motu handle backports in universe too or is that another group?
[06:24] <jdong> bipolar: that's the backporters
[06:24] <jdong> bipolar: (and you're looking at one :D )
[06:24] <bipolar> woot!
[06:24] <bipolar> need the new version of gnucash in there :)
[06:24] <bipolar> I have a working version myself, created by a 3rd party
[06:24] <jdong> got a few requests for it already...
[06:24] <jdong> do you know if the edgy one builds in dapper?
[06:24] <bipolar> but it took *forever* to find it
[06:24] <bipolar> heh
[06:25] <bipolar> jdong: I gave it a shot just with buildpackage, but the deps didn't match
[06:25] <jdong> bipolar: can you give it a shot with prevu?
[06:25] <bipolar> jdong: libgoffice is missing
[06:25] <bipolar> prevu?
[06:26] <jdong> bipolar: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268687&highlight=prevu
[06:26] <jdong> it's an automated backports compiler
[06:27] <bipolar> ahh... cool
[06:27] <bipolar> yeah. I'll give it a shot
[06:27] <bipolar> jdong: btw, the person that created the debs I'm using now is kleeman on the forums.
[06:28] <jdong> I'm not sure how he created the packages
[06:28] <jdong> but only packages that build cleanly from edgy can be put in dapper-backports
[06:36] <jdong> motu poke?
[06:42] <LaserJock> is it possible to remove a version of a package from the repos?
[06:54] <jdong> LaserJock: I've poked the archive admins about that before for backports... so I guess the answer is yes
[06:54] <LaserJock> well, this would be in edgy Universe
[06:55] <LaserJock> maybe I'll give it a shot
[06:57] <jdong> well, I don't see why it would be any different for ubuntu-archive to flex their muscles in a different pocket :)
[07:04] <Hawkwind> jdong: Why isn't prevu in Dapper ?
[08:01] <jdong> Hawkwind: because I just wrote prevu over the weekend? :)
[08:02] <Hawkwind> jdong: Oh!
[08:02] <jdong> :)
[08:02] <Hawkwind> jdong: So it'll eventually get into Ubuntu then I assume ?
[08:02] <jdong> Hawkwind: if you want to fix my debianizing to be MOTU-compilant, I'd love to see it in universe
[08:03] <jdong> I just dh_maked it enough that it works and doesn't look too broken
[08:03] <Hawkwind> Me neither.  I just tried it on a package real quick that I knew would build and it worked really great
[08:04] <Hawkwind> Only thing I don't like about it is the package name tag is a bit long and actually puts 'prevu' into it.  Should somehow make that customizable for people who like to backport stuff for 3rd party repos maybe
[08:04] <jdong> yeah, it's a wonderfully convenient tool :)
[08:04] <jdong> well, it takes whatever deb-src repos you have listed in sources.list
[08:04] <jdong> or, it can be used like pdebuild (run prevu with no arguments in dpkg-source -x'ed directory)
[08:05] <jdong> it will also use its output debs directory as an APT repo, so you can build against previously prevu'ed packages
[08:05] <jdong> that seems to me like 3rd parties should be able to effectively use it
[08:06] <jdong> brb, time to look at what's cooking in kde :)
[08:09] <Hawkwind> I happen to run the largest 3rd party repo for Mandriva and I do most of my stuff by backporting stuff from their Cooker(beta/unstable) branch to the latest stable.  I would love to use prevu for adding more Ubuntu stuff to my rpeo
[08:09] <Hawkwind> My repo/site currently gets about 2 million hits per month :)
[08:10] <jdong> that's cool
[08:10] <jdong> and I don't doubt your figures at all
[08:10] <jdong> when backports used to be on a private server, it got 25GB/min of downloads
[08:11] <jdong> I couldn't keep up
[08:11] <Hawkwind> Heh yeah.  Seems to be a big market for sure
[08:11] <jdong> I'm personally very happy with prevu... it was time well spent for me
[08:11] <jdong> now, people have an easy way of rolling their own backports
[08:11] <Hawkwind> jdong: If I wanted to backport package 'foo' and it had a dep of 'bar' does prevu just build foo and then you have to build bar as well, or will it build everything at once ?
[08:12] <jdong> you have to build bar first, run sudo prevu-update, then build foo
[08:12] <Hawkwind> Ah ok.  Figured as much as it's probably best to do it that way
[08:12] <jdong> bddebian: did you try another azureus or something?
[08:13] <jdong> bddebian: since you decided to reveal that you're on, would you like to be my MOTU slave of the moment?
[08:13] <Hawkwind> jdong: I assume if I tried to build foo which requires bar, the script would error and tell me ?
[08:13] <jdong> :D
[08:13] <jdong> Hawkwind: right. during dependency resolution, it will fail and notify you
[08:14] <bddebian> jdong: I'm not sure I can, I am supposed to be "working".  What do you need?
[08:14] <jdong> bddebian: a patch added to acidrip
[08:14] <bddebian> jdong: You have the patch?
[08:14] <Hawkwind> jdong: Awesome!  I built a package I new had no deps(that I didn't already have atleast) that I package all the time, xchat
[08:14] <jdong> bddebian: bug 63595
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63595 in acidrip "acidrip should provide xvid defaults" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63595
[08:15] <jdong> Hawkwind: glad to hear you like it. prevu uses pbuilder internally, which is build tool of choice for Ubuntu/Debian developers
[08:15] <jdong> prevu builds packages in exactly the same way that the dapper-backports repository would
[08:23] <bddebian> jdong: Test building now
[08:23] <jdong> bddebian: thank you :)
[08:23] <bddebian> No, THANK YOU :-)
[08:24] <bddebian> Oh, I didn't dpatch it, it's right in the source :-)
[08:24] <jdong> hehe :)
[08:24] <jdong> that works too
[08:24] <jdong> figured that I might make acidrip usable while I'm at it
[08:25] <jdong> xvid from my experience is better than lavc's codec...
[08:26] <bddebian> jdong: Now, wanna help me debug my Hurd problems? :)
[08:26] <jdong> bddebian: I wish I knew anything about hurd :)
[08:26] <bddebian> Me too :)
[08:27] <jdong> now, to investigate/fix bug 63582....
[08:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63582 in acidrip "Crop detection fails" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63582
[08:34] <bddebian> jdong: Uploaded
[08:34] <jdong> bddebian: thank you very much
[08:36] <bddebian> jdong: I live to serve :)
[08:43] <xopher> How can I generate a sha1 password?
[08:51] <sladen> xopher: htpasswd -s ?
[08:52] <xopher> thank you
[09:07] <Hawkwind> jdong: http://pastebin.ulteo.us/128
[09:07] <Hawkwind> jdong: What exactly is this supposed to mean ?
[09:08] <jdong> Hawkwind: the actual build message further up
[09:08] <jdong> Hawkwind: what you pastebined was after the build failed, the builder cleaning up after itself
[09:09] <Hawkwind> Oh, got it.  Thanks
[09:22] <joejaxx> imbrandon: are you there?
[10:06] <Q-FUNK> siretart: are you sure you reported on the right package in bug#63617 ?
[10:06] <Q-FUNK> Bug #63617
[10:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63617 in upgrade-system "crash while removing packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63617
[10:07] <Q-FUNK> hmm... typos r us
[10:14] <siretart> Q-FUNK: ;)
[10:16] <Q-FUNK> siretart: at least it seems to me that you reported on the wrong package...
[10:18] <ajmitch> morning
[10:18] <zul> hey
[10:18] <Q-FUNK> siretart: or is there anything I missed in your report?
[10:25] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: ping
[10:25] <Gloubiboulga> hello LaserJock
[10:27] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I have a question for you
[10:27] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you merged goffice for edgy
[10:27] <Gloubiboulga> yes
[10:27] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: but did you know that you merged the Debian experimental version
[10:28] <LaserJock> your changelog entry says unstable I believe
[10:28] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, my changelog is wrong then
[10:28] <LaserJock> but the version you merged is from experimental
[10:28] <LaserJock> was there a reason for that?
[10:28] <Gloubiboulga> Daniel asked me to pick the ezxperimental package
[10:28] <LaserJock> grr, ok
[10:29] <LaserJock> it breaks a package I'm trying to get into edgy
[10:29] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, which package ?
[10:29] <LaserJock> but if Daniel asked you to then I assume he had a reason
[10:29] <LaserJock> gnome-chemisty-utils
[10:29] <LaserJock> the author said that version of goffice is very unstable
[10:29] <LaserJock> and it's been in experimental for like 4 months
[10:30] <LaserJock> anyway, I just wondered what the motivation was and if that was indeed what you meant to do
[10:30] <Gloubiboulga> I've not used goffice a lot actually
[10:31] <Gloubiboulga> I was surprised too when Daniel started to merge the experimental package and I asked him if he was sure about this, and he was :)
[10:31] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: are you sue that chemistry supplies are not banned in USA?
[10:32] <LaserJock> heh, yes
[10:32] <LaserJock> I'm a chemist, we can get anything ;-)
[10:32] <LaserJock> it's the biologists that have more problems
[10:33] <Q-FUNK> oh?
[10:35] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: sure, I don't do test on living subjects, I don't deal with toxins, or biohazards
[10:35] <LaserJock> no DNA floating about
[10:35] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:35] <LaserJock> I just blast molecules with a laser
[10:35] <Q-FUNK> nukes!  on a m***** snake!
[10:36] <Q-FUNK> ^plane
[10:37] <Q-FUNK> "thank you for buying 10kg of potassium nitrate and 2 litres of glycerin.  find the invoice attached.  yours, acme chemistry supplies LLC billing department"
[10:38] <LaserJock> sure
[10:38] <LaserJock> we make a nerve gas used in WW I all the time
[10:38] <ajmitch> how strict are the controls on some of that stuff?
[10:39] <LaserJock> none
[10:39] <LaserJock> it's a common synthetic chemistry compound
[10:39] <ajmitch> doesn't surprise me
[10:39] <LaserJock> there is no way to control stuff that tightly
[10:39] <Q-FUNK> afak most of the items can alreayd be found as industrial-grade cleaning agents at janitoring supplies or as fetilizers.
[10:39] <LaserJock> we have to account for the stuff we buy and get rid of
[10:39] <LaserJock> but that's mostly for budget people
[10:40] <LaserJock> and the EPA
[10:40] <LaserJock> making sure we aren't polluting the rivers
[10:40] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: exactly
[10:41] <Q-FUNK> funny how small research labs have to obey EPA regulations and 2 miles down the road a factory is killing all the oxygen in the river.
[10:41] <LaserJock> well, they get hit too, but they like to threaten us a lot
[10:41] <LaserJock> tbh, our medium size uni does produce a whole lot of nasty stuff
[10:42] <Q-FUNK> labs are comparatively small.  little legal budget and no apparent immediate ROI from the layman's point f view.  meanwhile, factories pocket fortunes and employ whole towns.
[10:43] <Q-FUNK> still, it sad how research labs try to do everything by the book and yet factories that produce waste in much bigger volumes don't.
[10:43] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure my uni produces the most pollutants and uses the most electricity of any organization in the city
[10:43] <Q-FUNK> yikes
[10:43] <LaserJock> but I know what you mean
[10:43] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's quite likely here as well
[10:44] <LaserJock> my building alone costs something like $300,000 in heat/electricity  per month
[10:44] <ajmitch> ouch
[10:44] <LaserJock> they have been shutting down all non-essential buildings on campus for 2-3 weeks at Christmas
[10:45] <LaserJock> saves them close to a $1milllion
[10:45] <LaserJock> I think my uni  also uses the most water of any organization
[11:05] <siretart> Q-FUNK: oh, indeed. probably update-manager would have been a better choice. sorry for the noise
[11:06] <Q-FUNK> siretart: I was just wondering where all those logs were coming from, but then I noticed the python bits.
[11:06] <AnAnt> a problem in multiverse I think
[11:06] <siretart> they are indeed from update-manager
[11:06] <AnAnt> there's a game called uqm
[11:06] <siretart> AnAnt: even if, update-manager should just break in that case
[11:06] <AnAnt> the repos has version 0.5.0-2ubuntu1 of that game
[11:07] <AnAnt> yet, that game depends on uqm-content (>=0.5) which is not available in the repos
[11:07] <AnAnt> siretart: huh ?
[11:08] <siretart> AnAnt: the result after this crash was a partial upgrade :(
[11:08] <AnAnt> siretart: btw, I did apt-get update, didn't use update-manager
[11:08] <Q-FUNK> siretart: dpkg -a --configure
[11:08] <Q-FUNK> ?
[11:09] <siretart> Q-FUNK: yes, this configured some packages. I needed to restart with apt-get upgrade
[11:09] <AnAnt> siretart: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=uqm&searchon=names&subword=1&version=edgy&release=all
[11:10] <siretart> AnAnt: yes, this is a bug in uqm related packages. anyway, update-manager shouldn't break because of unmet deps
[11:10] <AnAnt> no, it doesn't break, it holds uqm to old version
[11:12] <siretart> AnAnt: hm. I noticed that it missed to upgrade a lot of unrealted packages
[11:12] <AnAnt> siretart: it ?
[11:13] <siretart> AnAnt: update-manager
[11:13] <AnAnt> bddebian: hide
[11:13] <AnAnt> siretart: maybe
[11:14] <AnAnt> gotta go
[11:24] <gnomefreak> who is the person to talk to about nvidia?


[12:33] <ogra_> cjwatson, i have this little weekend project (embedded filesystem builder) where i use a minimal busybox-static system + upstart + udev + pam for a core system and then plan to have a task management on top that copies over configs and binaries from a chroot for certain functional tasks ... and i was wondering ...
[12:33] <ogra_> ... if someone saks you for a udeb of  a deb he has to include it in d-i, do you have any special reciepe on deciding what goes in that udeb ?
[12:33] <ogra_> *asks
[12:36] <cjwatson> There's some general advice in doc/devel/modules.txt in the debian-installer source package
[12:36] <ogra_> ah, coo
[12:36] <ogra_> l
[12:36] <cjwatson> debhelper deals with a lot of the basics these days
[12:37] <cjwatson> (with Package-Type: udeb)
[12:38] <ogra_> thanks ! i'll take a look ... so far i'm using copy_exec from initramfs-tools for the binaries, that covers the libs etc just fine ... but for getting the configs i'm currently running the binary with strace and fish the files out of the log
[12:40]  * ogra_ has a nicely working 8MB core filesystem already
[18:03] <infinity> ogra_: While you're at it, are you keeping /usr/share/doc/copyright, then?
[18:04] <infinity> ogra_: Cause, if so, that's something we could actually build/ship images from, rather than just give other people to make their own images.
[18:06] <infinity> ogra_: (/usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright, that is)