[01:24] <psusi> what happened to alt-f2?  was it disabled in oneiric?
[01:25] <dobey> no; it brings up the dash here to run things
[01:26] <psusi> so you can't just run arbitrary commands anymore?
[01:28] <dobey> does the dash not come up with a text field that says "Run a command..." in it when you press alt+f2?
[01:29] <psusi> I think it said that, but it doesn't seem to actually take a command.. it seems like it's just letting you enter a partial app name to search for
[01:30] <dobey> psusi: try to run "ubuntu-bug unity" in it :)
[01:30] <psusi> but I'm in gnome-shell now and alt-f2 does nothing there
[01:30] <dobey> oh, i don't know if it works in gnome-shell or not
[01:37] <psusi> it's supposed to
[01:37] <psusi> it used to ;)
[01:38] <psusi> and by supposed to, I mean the gnome documentation says it does ;)
[01:38] <jbicha> psusi: bug 856884
[01:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 856884 in unity "Unity sets the wrong metacity keyboard shortcut defaults" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856884
[02:27] <psusi> is compiz being used anymore?  gnome-shell is its own wm based on mutter right?  and unity uses metacity now right?
[02:27] <dobey> unity uses compiz
[02:27] <dobey> unity-2d is using metacity though i think
[02:28] <dobey> as does the gnome 3 fallback session
[02:30] <psusi> I thought unity was originally using compiz and then was rewritten to clutter or mutter?  or was it the other way around?
[02:32] <dobey> no; unity has always used compiz. it used to use clutter to do some of the widgets, but now uses nux for that
[02:36] <RAOF> No, psusi is right.  Unity was originally a mutter plugin, back in the 10.10(?) days.
[02:36] <dobey> oh, right
[02:36] <RAOF> The first unity release was a mutter plugin, and it wasn't very good :)
[02:37] <dobey> well, sort of right; wrong ordering :)
[02:37] <psusi> hrm... ok, so it's using compiz... so I should still be able to find that compiz config manager thing I found once and configure the widgets layer and use screenlets?
[02:38]  * psusi is looking for a proper replacement for the old gnome cpufreq, cpu temp, fan speed, etc thingies
[02:38] <dobey> i wouldn't necessarily recommend poking about in ccsm, though
[02:38] <dobey> but theoretically, yes you could
[02:39] <psusi> what about gnome-shell?  is it compiz based too?
[02:39] <dobey> no, gnome-shell is its own wm
[02:39] <dobey> based on mutter
[02:39] <psusi> yea, the shell and wm are in one process, but it's... yea... based on mutter, ok...
[02:50]  * psusi is getting annoyed.. each of gnome2, gnome3, and unity have things I like... but they also each have their down sides.... must.. get... perfect... desktop...
[02:54] <dobey> i need a new desk too. this cheap one has been bowed a bit for a long time now. and the thin veneer to make it look like maple is kind of crappy. and the keyboard tray isn't tall enough to leave it slid underneath the desk and type on without being out in the open
[02:54]  * RAOF needs a second tiny outdoor table to extend my standing desk across the full width of the desk.
[02:55] <dobey> heh
[02:56] <dobey> maybe oak or something would be a good replacement for this crappy fiberboard though. could probably re-use the legs, if i can get some sort of fastener for them
[05:44] <pitti> Good morning
[07:20] <pitti> dentist, bbl
[07:59] <didrocks> good morning
[08:27] <pitti> back
[08:27] <pitti> didrocks: bonjour
[08:27] <pitti> didrocks: care to unbreak precise? :-)
[08:27]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[08:28] <didrocks> hey pitti :)
[08:28] <pitti> didrocks: how are you?
[08:28] <didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, thanks. Still some cough, but it's almost almost almost over, fortunatly :)
[08:28] <didrocks> and you?
[08:28] <pitti> wow, that was a tough one
[08:28] <pitti> I'm quite fine
[08:29] <pitti> my arm hurt yesterday after 2 hours of practicing defence against sticks/bats in Taekwondo, but feeling alright again :)
[08:29] <pitti> didrocks: about unbreaking precise, do you know what happened to python-zeitgeist?
[08:29] <pitti> it's uninstallable right now due to that
[08:29] <pitti> or, do we need it at all? I thought it was vala now
[08:30] <didrocks> pitti: did I really break precise? ok. Hum, normally python-zg is there
[08:30] <didrocks> pitti: it's for the datasources in python and other python facility
[08:30] <pitti>  LANG= apt-cache show python-zeitgeist
[08:30] <pitti> N: Can't select versions from package 'python-zeitgeist' as it is purely virtual
[08:30] <pitti> N: No packages found
[08:30] <didrocks> let me recheck
[08:30] <pitti> $ asrc zeitgeist | grep Binary
[08:30] <pitti> Binary: zeitgeist, zeitgeist-core, python-zeitgeist
[08:31] <pitti> sorry, that's my alias for apt-cache showsrc
[08:31] <pitti> but it seems it's not actually built or so
[08:31] <didrocks> Package: python-zeitgeist
[08:31] <didrocks> Architecture: all
[08:31] <didrocks> in debian/control
[08:32] <pitti> amd64 only builds zeitgeist-core
[08:32] <didrocks> and it installs usr/lib
[08:32] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1/+build/2947957 builds p-zeitgeist
[08:32] <pitti> oh, I bet it's in NEW or so
[08:32] <pitti> now, make https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=0 not time out..
[08:32]  * didrocks retries
[08:32] <didrocks> retries
[08:32] <didrocks> retries :)
[08:33] <pitti> nope, not in NEW
[08:33] <pitti> q info zeitgeist -> 0 total
[08:33] <didrocks> so yeah, zg-core is arch:any and dep on python-zg which is arch:all
[08:33] <didrocks> pitti: it's not a new one
[08:33] <didrocks> was there already
[08:33]  * pitti scratches head
[08:33] <didrocks> where is p-zg, where are you? :)
[08:33] <pitti> python-zeitgeist | 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1 |       precise | all
[08:33] <micahg> python-zeitgeist | 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1 |       precise | all
[08:33] <pitti> that's what cocoplum claims
[08:33] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/i386/python-zeitgeist/0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1
[08:34] <pitti> rmadison has no result
[08:34]  * didrocks tries rmadison
[08:34] <pitti> oh, it does now
[08:34] <pitti> very weird
[08:34] <didrocks> $ rmadison python-zeitgeistpython-zeitgeist | 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1 |       precise | all
[08:34] <didrocks> yeah
[08:34] <didrocks> and so, on amd64, your zg-core doesn't find the arch:all p-zg?
[08:34] <pitti> I got about 20 failed CD build mails that it's not installable
[08:34] <pitti> and my dist-upgrade this morning failed as well
[08:34] <didrocks> waow
[08:35] <mvo> hey glatzor!
[08:35] <pitti> apt-get update again, still not there :/
[08:35] <pitti> hey mvo
[08:35] <didrocks> it's mvo's fault! :)
[08:35] <didrocks> hey mvo
[08:35] <mvo> hey pi
[08:35] <pitti> W. T. F.
[08:35] <mvo> hey pitti even :)
[08:35] <pitti> hey mvo, wie gehts?
[08:35] <didrocks> pitti: it's just published, do we have timeline stats?
[08:35] <mvo> hey didrocks - not my fault!
[08:35] <pitti> glatzor: hallo
[08:36] <didrocks> mvo: ok, let's say it's not! :)
[08:36] <mvo> pitti: good! but woken up early again, I really want to have a day where I can sleep *loonnng* (like 8:30 ;)
[08:36] <pitti> mvo: early? it's 9:30..
[08:36] <didrocks> pitti: so, if you apt-get install p-zg, it tells that it's a virtual package?
[08:36] <pitti> yes, and apt-cache show -> not there
[08:36] <didrocks> waow
[08:37] <mvo> pitti: well, I up since before 7:00, just now came to my desk
[08:37] <pitti> didrocks: does it work for you?
[08:37] <didrocks> pitti: trying, I have the locally installed version there
[08:37] <pitti> apt-cache policy python-zeitgeist should tell you
[08:38] <pitti> $ wget -O- -q http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2| bzgrep '^Package: python-zeitgeist'
[08:38] <pitti> $
[08:38] <pitti> it's not just me
[08:38] <pitti> same for i386
[08:38] <pitti> -> #u-desktop
[08:38] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I only see my locally installed version
[08:39] <didrocks> through apt-cache policy after a cache refresh
[08:39] <didrocks> where is p-zg hiding? it's been built, it's on launchpad…
[08:40] <glatzor> morning pitti and mvo!
[08:40] <didrocks> pitti: hum:
[08:40] <didrocks> No summary available for python-zeitgeist in ubuntu precise.
[08:40] <didrocks> No description available for python-zeitgeist in ubuntu precise.
[08:40] <didrocks> on launchpad https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1
[08:42] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:42] <pitti> hey rodrigo_
[08:43] <didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
[08:45] <rodrigo_> hi pitti, didrocks
[09:04] <seb128> hey
[09:11] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va ?
[09:11] <seb128> lut didrocks, oui, et toi?
[09:11] <didrocks> seb128: encore un peu de toux, mais presque fini cette fois :)
[09:11] <seb128> hehe
[09:12] <seb128> reading this mint kicking ubuntu on distrowatch news and comments
[09:12] <seb128> it's somewhat entertaining
[09:12] <seb128> typical comment: "I am one of those that defected from Ubuntu to Mint earlier this year. I made an honest effort to use Unity – for three months – but the productivity hit was too big. I am a developer and Unity really, really hurts my daily workflow."
[09:12] <rodrigo_> salut seb128
[09:13] <seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[09:13] <rodrigo_> seb128, I'm fine, and you?
[09:13] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[09:13] <seb128> it's weird that people do the "I don't like the default desktop I switch distro", rather than just apt-get installing kde or xfce or gnome-shell
[09:15] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, indeed :D
[09:15] <rodrigo_> it's much more work to switch distro than installing a few packages
[09:16] <didrocks> it's because they "feel hurt"
[09:16] <didrocks> it's more a passional thing than rational
[09:18] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:20] <smspillaz> distrowatch is still a thing ?
[09:22] <seb128> didrocks, that comment doesn't sound like passional, the guy tried unity for 3 months and then switched distro
[09:23] <didrocks> seb128: I was commenting about your "weird that people do the "I don't like the default desktop I switch distro", rather than just apt-get installing kde or xfce or gnome-shell"
[09:23] <seb128> didrocks, there is for sure quite of that gaming effect jcastro mentionned but some of those comments seem rational ones that give an honest try to unity, it didn't work for them so they get the next logical step which seems to be "change distro"
[09:24] <didrocks> seb128: indeed, exactly what I'm telling there
[09:25] <seb128> didrocks, well I agree with that you say, but it seems there is a group of users who don't get hurt or has no real feeling, just doesn't get used to unity and yet switch distro for whatever reason
[09:25] <seb128> I wonder if some people don't realize they can switch desktop or variants without reinstalling
[09:25] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, one doesn't prevent the other, "as the default experience on this distro doesn't fit my expectations, let's try to get another default", that's my interpretation, I'm maybe wrong
[09:26] <xclaesse> seb128, will Presice keep totem 3.0 and Empathy 3.2 because of clutter dep on new versions in the end?
[09:26] <seb128> didrocks, I've read some blogs comments where users said "I've enough of Ubuntu, I dropped it and install Xubuntu", like they reinstalled from the CD over...
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: I'm sure that if we provide another respin for gnome-shell, maybe more people will still use ubuntu
[09:26] <didrocks> as it's "a default"
[09:26] <seb128> didrocks, I've also read user downgrading from 11.04 to 10.10 to get "gnome-panel back"
[09:27] <didrocks> well, we all know that won't last for long :)
[09:27] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, I wonder if we should somewhat do a better job at explaining that you can switch desktops without reinstalling if i.e you want to try xfce
[09:27] <seb128> didrocks, right, especially than gnome-panel is in 11.04 on the CD...
[09:27] <didrocks> seb128: I agree not quite sure how we can make that better (than just shipping another spin), people really don't get the "it's all the same repo"
[09:28] <didrocks> evertime, I have to reexplain it in various events
[09:28] <seb128> would be nice if jbicha and ricotz would lead a gnome-shell respin
[09:28] <broder> i think that's a branding thing - the flavors are branded as more or less disjoint products
[09:28] <seb128> I will try to push them to do that once we get the extra desktop set
[09:29] <seb128> xclaesse, totem will stay on a clutterless version for this cycle yes, not sure about empathy
[09:29] <xclaesse> :(
[09:29] <xclaesse> seb128, be prepared that empathy 3.4 will depend on clutter too
[09:29] <seb128> xclaesse, kenvandine was looking at upgrading, video calls are not as important than video playing so it might be fine to have them broken for a part of the users
[09:29] <broder> seb128: have you guys looked into if llvmpipe is good enough to back up a clutter-based totem?
[09:29] <seb128> xclaesse, yeah, ken talked with sjoerd about it
[09:30] <xclaesse> seb128, is that the long term solution? keep old versions of the world?
[09:30] <xclaesse> or is that just because of LTS?
[09:30] <seb128> broder, I don't doubt it will "get there", it's just a risky change for the LTS
[09:30] <xclaesse> I see, ok :)
[09:30] <broder> that makes sense
[09:30] <seb128> xclaesse, it's because of the LTS
[09:31] <seb128> well totem 3.2 was not working at all on non-gl hardware
[09:31] <seb128> that's the sort of thing we want to avoid in the LTS
[09:31] <seb128> it's getting better but the fact that nobody upstream noticed before 3.2 clearly show that everybody in GNOME is running gl capable video and the fallback cases get no testing
[09:32] <seb128> not sure also that anyone in GNOME is testing clutter on armel for example
[09:32] <xclaesse> givent that gnome-shell itself require gl...
[09:32] <seb128> so I wouldn't be surprise if that has issues as well
[09:33] <seb128> well anyway we don't want to make video playing use it for the lts
[09:33] <seb128> so next cycle for totem
[09:33] <xclaesse> ok, makes sense tbh
[09:33] <bigon> pitti: why did you reenable kerneloops?
[09:34] <bigon> the project seems dead
[09:34] <pitti> apparently the kernel team is still interested in it
[09:36] <bigon> ah, mmmh
[09:37] <bigon> I was planning to ask for the removal of task-desktop dependency against it in debian
[09:37] <bigon> but I guess I'll wait
[09:40] <bigon> pitti: "kernel team" as the ubuntu kernel team or the kernel team as linus ?
[09:43] <mvo> pitti: did something in dbus change? I see e.g. software-center still on the bus, even when its terminated already. in oneiric it used to stop listing it when the app closed
[09:49] <glatzor> pitti, is there already a mapping of locale names and human readable names available in the default install which also provides translations: en -> English -> Englisch
[09:52] <pitti> bigon: I meant the ubuntu kernel team; but if the upstream project is dead, we might just as well remove it indeed; I'm not familiar with it at all
[09:52] <pitti> mvo: we haven't had dbus changes in ages really
[09:53] <pitti> glatzor: in two steps
[09:53] <pitti> glatzor: first, get the English language name from LC_IDENTIFICATION with nl_langinfo
[09:53] <pitti> gchar *language_en = nl_langinfo (_NL_IDENTIFICATION_LANGUAGE);
[09:53] <rodrigo_> mvo, working on u-s-s, no idea why I'm getting a 'dbus global name not defined' on this code:
[09:53] <rodrigo_> import dbus
[09:53] <rodrigo_> system_bus = dbus.SystemBus()
[09:54] <pitti> glatzor: second, translate it using the iso-codes translations
[09:54] <pitti> dgettext ("iso_639_3", language_en)
[09:54] <rodrigo_> mvo, and python-dbus is installed, any idea what I might be missing?
[09:54] <glatzor> pitti, great, thanks
[09:54] <pitti> >>> import dbus
[09:54] <pitti> >>> dbus.SystemBus()
[09:54] <pitti> <dbus._dbus.SystemBus (system) at 0x7f6629eeee90>
[09:54] <pitti> rodrigo_: hm, works fine here
[09:54] <mvo> rodrigo_: does python -c 'import dbus' for you?
[09:55] <pitti> rodrigo_: if that stopped working, a _lot_ of stuff would suddenly break
[09:55] <bigon> pitti: yeah kerneloops.org is dead
[09:55] <rodrigo_> yeah, just fails when running the daemon
[09:55] <rodrigo_> mvo, it does
[09:55] <mvo> rodrigo_: aha, so its failing just in the auto-start context ? or when running the daemon manually too?
[09:56] <rodrigo_> mvo, when running the daemon manually
[09:56] <rodrigo_> 'org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.NameError: Traceback (most recent call last):\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/dbus/service.py", line 702, in _message_cb\n    retval = candidate_method(self, *args, **keywords)\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/UbuntuSystemService/systemd.py", line 52, in SetHostname\n    user_interaction):\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/UbuntuSystemService/utils.py", line 5, in authWithPolic
[09:56] <rodrigo_> yKit\n    def authWithPolicyKit(sender, connection, priv, interactive=0):\nNameError: global name \'dbus\' is not defined\n'
[09:57]  * rodrigo_ is lost
[09:58] <mvo> rodrigo_: could you push your branch so that I can try to reproduce please?
[09:59] <rodrigo_> mvo, lp:~rodrigo-moya/system-service/new-interfaces <- just run the daemon manually, and run SetHostname from d-feet
[09:59] <rodrigo_> mvo, I've built and installed the package, rather than running it from the branch
[10:08] <mvo> rodrigo_: trying now on precise, oneiric gives me a different error
[10:09] <rodrigo_> mvo, no, same error :(
[10:09] <mvo> please still commit my diff :)
[10:09] <rodrigo_> it doesn't fail on the other sources, which are run first
[10:09] <mvo> let me try on precise now
[10:09] <mvo> right
[10:09] <seb128> rodrigo_, https://launchpad.net/bugs/876839 is the bug I mentioned yesterday btw
[10:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 876839 in gnome-control-center "Proxy GUI in 11.10 does not configure socks proxy for HTTP traffic" [Low,Confirmed]
[10:10] <rodrigo_> mvo, comiitted, tested and same error :D
[10:10] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah ok, I thought you talked about the other u-s-s bug
[10:11] <rodrigo_> seb128, adding a comment now
[10:11] <seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
[10:11] <seb128> rodrigo_, I'm not sure if that the same bug you tried to fix in the sru or another one
[10:12] <mvo> rodrigo_: did you push it? I'm still at r64
[10:12] <rodrigo_> mvo, ah, no
[10:12] <broder> looking through the lintian tags which are unique to ubuntu's packages, there seem to be a lot of instances of package-contains-broken-symlink from gnome apps to /usr/share/help-langpack/... or /usr/share/gnome/help-langpack
[10:12] <rodrigo_> mvo, pushed now
[10:12] <broder> i assume that's the way it's supposed to work?
[10:12] <mvo> thx
[10:13] <seb128> broder, yes
[10:13] <seb128> broder, they stop being broken when you install the langpacks
[10:13] <broder> seb128: but there are no dependencies forcing that?
[10:13] <seb128> broder, no, what would be the point to split translations if we forced you to install them all?
[10:13] <seb128> broder, usually people just install the locales they use
[10:14] <rodrigo_> mvo, oh, just found out I had another u-s-s daemon running
[10:14] <rodrigo_> mvo, that should be the problem
[10:14] <broder> seb128: oh, i see. i didn't notice that it contained symlinks for all of the languages
[10:15] <mvo> rodrigo_: heh, ok :)
[10:15] <broder> seb128: does it make sense then to come up with some way to filter out broken symlinks in /usr/share/help and /usr/share/gnome-help?
[10:16] <seb128> broder, I guess it would if those warnings confuse some people yes
[10:16] <seb128> that was not raised until now but I see how it can be confusing
[10:16] <broder> seb128: we weren't publishing the results of lintian on all of our packages until now :)
[10:16] <seb128> good point indeed ;-)
[10:19] <broder> seb128: i eventually want to publish a report on lintian-errors-in-ubuntu-but-not-debian, but it'll take me some time to set it up
[10:19] <broder> in the mean time, those specific symlink errors are...21829 out of 157523 ubuntu-specific lintian tags
[10:19] <broder> so they're an easy target :)
[10:22] <rodrigo_> mvo, ok, just pushed another fix, and setting the hostname and static hostname works, so if you can start reviewing it, the only thing missing is some of the dbus methods
[10:22] <rodrigo_> mvo, which I'll keep working on until I propose the branch
[10:23] <rodrigo_> which btw, leads me to a question
[10:23] <rodrigo_> systemd uses /etc/machine-info to store the pretty host and icon names for this computer
[10:24] <rodrigo_> but I don't have that, what does ubuntu use instead of that, if any?
[10:24] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you have an example how this looks like?
[10:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, I can create one from the code, 1 min
[10:24] <pitti> the standard one is `hostname` or `hostname -f` AFAIK
[10:26] <rodrigo_> well, that's for the hostname given to the machine by DNS, for instance
[10:26] <rodrigo_> then there's the static hostname, which is what there is in /etc/hostname
[10:26] <pitti> right, /etc/hostname is a Debianism, and only for setting the host name during boot
[10:26] <pitti> DNS might change it
[10:27] <rodrigo_> pitti, http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/machine-info.html
[10:27] <rodrigo_> so it seems to be a systemdism :)
[10:28] <pitti> ah, I don't think we have an equivalent
[10:28] <pitti> the installer forces the host name to be actually a valid DNS name
[10:28] <rodrigo_> so can we use /etc/machine-info also then?
[10:29] <pitti> rodrigo_: nothign reads that
[10:29] <rodrigo_> the pretty hostname is just for showing it in the info panel
[10:29] <mvo> rodrigo_: thanks rodrigo_, I will wait with the review until its ready
[10:29] <rodrigo_> pitti, well, my new service in u-s-s will read it, the problem is nothing writes to that
[10:29] <pitti> rodrigo_: i. e. it should be shown in lightdm greeter, DAAP shares in banshee/rhythmbox, sent through Avahi/DNS, etc.
[10:29] <rodrigo_> so it will always be empty
[10:30] <pitti> otherwise it doesn't make much sense to create it
[10:30] <rodrigo_> yeah
[10:30] <rodrigo_> I'll leave those methods unimplemented then
[10:30] <rodrigo_> for the pretty host name and the icon
[10:30] <pitti> seems fine; they can just be empty stubs, or return a "not supported" value if that's possible
[10:31] <rodrigo_> I'll leave them do nothing :)
[10:31] <rodrigo_> ok, so just a couple methods in the locale interface, and we're set :)
[11:36] <didrocks> pitti: please be aware of agateau's comment on bug #877358, not sure how you want to handle it
[11:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 877358 in qt-at-spi "QtAccessibility causes crashes in several applications" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877358
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, can you join #debian-gnome?
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, Josselin is having issues with the pygobject transition and is talking to adding an epoch and other fun things
[11:54] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[11:54] <seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
[11:54] <ricotz> seb128, do you know the ibus package?`
[11:54] <ricotz> seb128, i am great, thank you, how are you?
[11:54] <seb128> well I know about ibus but not really about specifics
[11:54] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[11:54] <seb128> do you have any issue with ibus?
[11:55] <ricotz> especially the appindicator patch
[11:55] <seb128> yes, what about it?
[11:55] <ricotz> it drop the set_name to ibus-ui-gtk of the status-icon
[11:55] <ricotz> and i was hoping there is a way to pass this though to the indicator-fallback
[11:56] <ricotz> this breaks the ability to handle status-icons conditionally by their names
[11:57] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: if you're about can you give me a shout later please
[11:58] <ricotz> seb128, i am getting requests again patching gnome-shell to workaround this
[11:58] <seb128> ricotz, can't we just patch gnome-shell to use whatever name ibus get without the set_name?
[11:59] <seb128> ricotz, ted would be a better person to ask about the set_name for the fallback, it's not possible from the api I think
[11:59] <seb128> but it seems a reasonable request for an api addition or something
[11:59] <ricotz> seb128, the patch isnt nice, it would mean to check for "main.py" which is quite generic
[12:00] <ricotz> seb128, yes, updating appindicator would be the proper way
[12:00] <seb128> well maybe there is a way to get the widget and do a setname manually then
[12:00] <seb128> but yeah, let's check with the dx guys a bit later, they are not up yet
[12:00] <seb128> do you have a bug number for that issue?
[12:01] <ricotz> seb128, dont have a bug number, but there might be one
[12:02] <geser> didrocks: I just filed an zeitgeist upgrade issue on precise (bug #894356), not sure if it fits into the "don't break upgrades for a long time" policy as retrying to install python-zeitgeist fixes the upgrade issue
[12:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 894356 in zeitgeist "python-zeitgeist is missing a Replaces on zeitgeist-core (trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pyshared/zeitgeist/__init__.py')" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894356
[12:04] <didrocks> geser: oh thanks, fixing that
[12:04] <seb128> ricotz, seems close from https://bugs.launchpad.net/libappindicator/+bug/875770
[12:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 875770 in libappindicator "Indicator icon and name are not set properly in System Tray fallback" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:05] <seb128> lunch time
[12:05] <seb128> bbiab
[12:09] <ricotz> seb128, yeah, thanks, that would be it, of course the ibus patch itself is a problem too
[12:12] <didrocks> geser: fixed, thanks! :)
[12:17] <rodrigo_> mvo, I'm finding a few errors in u-s-s, like it reading /etc/default/console-setup when the XKB* keys are in /etc/default/keyboard
[12:22] <pitti> didrocks: yep, I saw; we just need to wait until the at-spi fix is in, too
[12:23] <didrocks> pitti: I was thinking uploading it tomorrow
[12:23] <didrocks> pitti: to ensure we reach the 7 days first for unity-2d rather than pushing both at the same time
[12:23] <didrocks> otherwise the fix is ready (agateau just have to rebase on latest version)
[12:25] <agateau> I have a weird bug with the at-spi2-core package: the first time I build it (with debuild -b -uc -us) it works, but if I try it one more time it fails: the doc is not built
[12:26] <agateau> I sort-of fixed that in my previous patch by adding --enable-gtk-doc to configure options, but I am not sure this is the best fix
[12:26] <pitti> agateau: unfortunately quite a lot of source packages leave cruft behind after a binary build, or modify files, etc.
[12:26] <pitti> that's why most of us build everything in separate build dirs, i. e. with bzr bd
[12:27] <pitti> if you apply a fix, and the package is not in bzr, I recommend building the source first (debuild -S), then the binaries (debuild -b)
[12:27] <pitti> then you can remove your source dir and re-unpack the new source, if it got messed up
[12:27] <pitti> but bzr bd makes this quite a lot easier, and it's now available for all packages
[12:27] <pitti> either our custom branches (debian/ only), or UDD
[12:27] <agateau> ok, bzr bd sounds like a good option
[12:28] <agateau> I don't want to "pollute" the sru with build fixes
[12:30] <agateau> pitti: thanks for the tips
[12:32] <mvo> rodrigo_: ohh, feel free to fix along the way
[12:32] <rodrigo_> mvo, yes, doing so
[12:32] <mvo> \o/
[12:40] <agateau> mmm, it seems the clean target of at-spi2-core is a bit too strong: it rm a dir from the source archive
[12:45] <agateau> didrocks: updated the at-spi2-core debdiff
[12:46] <didrocks> agateau: thanks, will get to it shortly
[13:13]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:35] <didrocks> mvo: hey, are you aware of a good script which which will do like apt-get build-dep, but from a control file and without installing them?
[13:36] <didrocks> I'm pretty sure that should already exists, at least for the buildds
[13:37] <mvo> didrocks: gdebi debian/control should do
[13:39] <didrocks> mvo: hum, this seems to work very well (after reinstalling gdebi ;)), however, I want to know all the build-deps (I can use a awk expression), them being installed or not
[13:45]  * didrocks thinks to start from dpkg-checkbuilddeps and write some perl to remove the matching with what is locally installed
[13:45] <Laney> sudo mk-build-deps -i -r
[13:46] <Laney> oh, without installing
[13:47] <Laney> what do you want it to give you?
[13:47] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, you puzzled me with this option :)
[13:47] <didrocks> Laney: basically, the list of all build-dep for this architecture, them being installled or not
[13:48] <didrocks> I can surely do some regexp for that, but I was thinking that this existed already
[13:51] <mvo> didrocks: oh, eh, hrm, iirc its gdebi --deb-line debian/control
[13:52] <mvo> didrocks: hm, maybe not, I think it will omit the installed ones but that should be trivial to fix
[13:52] <didrocks> mvo: yeah, I'm loooking at dpkg-checkbuilddeps, seems even more trivial to start from there
[14:02] <seb128> mvo, could you look at bug #888293?
[14:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 888293 in app-install-data-ubuntu "dia-gnome package is in database as dia-gnome-gnome" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888293
[14:02] <seb128> mvo, it has what seems a simple patch
[14:03] <seb128> (in reverse diff order though)
[14:03] <pitti> desrt: FYI, filed bug 894391 to track XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
[14:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 894391 in consolekit "support $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894391
[14:04] <pitti> desrt: didn't target it yet, as the spec defines a fallback
[14:04] <pitti> desrt: is anything actually using that already?
[14:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: any chance of getting seahorse-plugins put back in Oneiric? #862609
[14:06] <seb128> bug #862609
[14:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 862609 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-plugins gone in Oneiric" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862609
[14:06] <seb128> mdeslaur, oneiric is released so I guess "no"
[14:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: ok, that's what I thought, thanks
[14:07] <seb128> mdeslaur, we could get it to backport if somebody gets it to precise though
[14:07] <seb128> mdeslaur, somebody *hint* ;-)
[14:08] <seb128> mdeslaur, not that for GNOME 3.4 (we might not get the bits needed in precise though since we will default to stay on 3.2) they made different sources from it
[14:09] <seb128> i.e seahorse-nautilus, seahorse-sharing
[14:12] <mdeslaur> seb128: I'll gladly upload it, if someone from the desktop team could tell me what they would like me to do with libcryptui...ie: new binary package for the seahorse-daemon files?  instead of the hack I did in my ppa: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/83910853/libcryptui_3.1.91-0ubuntu1_3.1.91-0ubuntu1.0~md1.diff.gz
[14:13] <seb128> mdeslaur, is the version pitti packaged in oneiric not good enough?
[14:14] <mdeslaur> seb128: it doesn't package the seahorse-daemon stuff
[14:14] <seb128> mdeslaur, so seahorse has a different version of the lib that the standalone packaged one?
[14:15] <seb128> mdeslaur, well, I wouldn't go crazy, I would package seahorse-nautilus 3.3.1 if that runs with our current libs
[14:15] <seb128> mdeslaur, http://git.gnome.org/browse/seahorse-nautilus
[14:16] <seb128> if that's the part you aim at bringing back
[14:16] <mdeslaur> seb128: sorry, let me explain: seahorse-daemon got moved from the seahorse-plugins tarball to the libcryptui tarball, but our libcryptui in oneiric doesn't build a binary package for them
[14:16] <seb128> it's easier that try to fix something that already went away in GNOME
[14:16] <seb128> mdeslaur, what is that daemon doing?
[14:16] <seb128> isn't it deprecated? it was doing gpg agent but that is in gnome-keyring since oneiric
[14:17] <seb128> well, my understanding is that you only need and want the nautilus bits, which would be easier to get by packaging seahorse-nautilus
[14:17] <mdeslaur> seb128: the daemon is what the new seahorse-nautilus and seahorse-plugins talk to
[14:17] <seb128> hum ok
[14:17] <seb128> dunno then sorry
[14:18] <mdeslaur> seahorse-nautilus is just the nautilus extension, it's not the mime handler (which is the good part)
[14:18] <seb128> mdeslaur, well I guess you should add a new binary to the lib in precise for the bits in doesn't ship in oneiric and then package seahorse-nautilus
[14:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: ok, can the desktop team give me an appropriate name for the new binary package? is this something that needs to be coordinated with debian?
[14:19] <seb128> better if you coordinate with debian
[14:19] <seb128> the GNOME guys are on #debian-gnome on oftc
[14:19] <mdeslaur> ah, thanks, I'll do that
[14:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: thanks
[14:19] <seb128> yw
[14:19] <seb128> thanks for working on that!
[14:20] <mdeslaur> np
[14:21] <mdeslaur> ah! debian already has the binary package, coo.
[14:21] <mdeslaur> s/coo/cool/
[14:21] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin!
[14:21] <GunnarHj> "our intention is to write the language as $LANGUAGE and the region as $LANG into ~/.pam_environment"
[14:21] <GunnarHj> I take it that "region as $LANG" was a typo. ;-)
[14:22] <pitti> GunnarHj: well, it's what things were like in the current versions :)
[14:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: True. :)
[14:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the tb notification have random email received counts it seems, did you get other people complaining about that?
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> not yet :)
[14:27]  * chrisccoulson prepares for more poking
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> hi czajkowski
[14:28] <seb128> mvo, could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~nikola825/ubuntu/oneiric/python-apt/fix-for-500940/+merge/82079 as well?
[14:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, lol, could you confirm if it happens for you as well?
[14:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, just wait for a few emails and see if the notify-osd bubble say you received a few email or a random number
[14:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. it might be easier to spot if i mark all my mails as read and start from zero, rather than starting from ~30000 unread :)
[14:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well, isn't it supposed to display the number of email you got in that fetch round?
[14:30] <seb128> rather than the number of emails you have unread somewhere
[14:30] <seb128> though my unread emails are close from 0 so it's buggy in any case there
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what the notification bubble is meant to do. i've not touched that before :)
[14:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good opportunity! ;-)
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> is it fixed yet?
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> oh, look there, another echo ;)
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> :-)
[14:35] <seb128> lol
[14:35] <seb128> indeed
[14:38] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: mind if I send a quick pm ?
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, sure, feel free. no need to ask :)
[14:41] <desrt> pitti: dconf
[14:43] <didrocks> hey desrt
[14:43] <desrt> didrocks: good morning
[14:43] <didrocks> how are you?
[14:44] <desrt> okay.
[14:44] <desrt> how's upstream-under-new-rules treating you? :)
[14:45] <didrocks> desrt: right now, it's rather I'm treating them :)
[14:46]  * pitti imagines an arms race against didrocks tightening the tarmac checks and DBO creating sufficient noise under tests/ :)
[14:47] <didrocks> :)
[14:54] <seb128> mvo, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~gandelman-a/ubuntu/precise/squid-deb-proxy/lp893313/+merge/82980 as well?
[14:54] <seb128> mvo, I'm done for today ;-)
[14:55] <seb128> desrt, he's treating them so well that we didn't get any update since uds :p
[14:55] <desrt> seb128: if only you could apply the new policy retroactively
[14:55] <seb128> lol
[14:55] <desrt> perhaps you'd find yourselves running gnome-shell, after all :)
[14:56] <seb128> or perhaps we would still be running GNOME 2.16 on dapper or something :p
[14:56] <desrt> thankfully, GNOME is not subject to your acceptance criteria :p
[14:56] <desrt> otherwise ya.. you're probably right :)
[15:03] <mvo> seb128: cracking the wip, eh ;) ?
[15:03] <mvo> aha, squid-deb-proxy
[15:03]  * mvo likes this one
[15:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you know if there's any progress on bug 857153? It's been on the RM radar for quite a while
[15:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 857153 in firefox "Needs to get accessibility settings from GSettings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857153
[15:06] <seb128> hehe
[15:07] <seb128> ok, I'm out for some erands, back in less than an hour
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> pitti - not yet, and it sounds like it's not too much of an issue for oneiric
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> it's something that we'll fix in precise though
[15:12] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: do oyu have a testsuite for it?
[15:12] <didrocks> :)
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, firefox has probably over 10000 tests ;)
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> in fact, it's actually probably a lot more than that
[15:13] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you need +1 now for the gsettings integration :)
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> yeah, but my +1 comes from upstream, who need to approve it before it lands on mozilla-central, before it gets 6 weeks of testing in aurora and 6 weeks of testing in beta before it is released ;)
[15:16] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: can we switch duties, just for a month please please please! ;)
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> would you really want to look after a browser? ;)
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> actually, that would be perfect
[15:17] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I can do whatever I want to firefox, I'm forced to use chromium for launchpad :)
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> you'd have to work on 20th december to handle the firefox 9 release! :-)
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> and then you'd need to be available up until christmas eve to handle the inevitable 9.0.1 chemspill
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> that would be great if we swapped for a month :)
[15:18] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, I told "a month", not "that month" :)
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:22] <rodrigo_> mvo, branch ready for review -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/new-interfaces/+merge/83308
[15:22] <rodrigo_> mvo, works ok to set the system locale settings from g-c-c, and to retrieve the hostname
[15:23] <pitti> apport_1.90-0ubuntu1_source.changes - PHEAR!
[15:24] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, oh btw, system-wide locale settings are stored in /etc/default/locale, right?
[15:24] <pitti> rodrigo_: right
[15:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok, then my code works and does the correct thing :)
[15:25] <pitti> rodrigo_: yay!
[15:25] <rodrigo_> pitti, but not only LANG, but all the LC_* vars can go there, right?
[15:25] <pitti> rodrigo_: right, that's what language-selector etc. does
[15:25] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:25] <rodrigo_> got it right then
[15:25] <pitti> rodrigo_: did you just implement that yourself? accountsservice is already supposed to do that
[15:25] <pitti> SetLanguage()
[15:25] <pitti> (and soon, SetRegion, by GunnarHj)
[15:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, implemented it, as it has support for all LC_ vars
[15:26] <rodrigo_> just a few lines of python though
[15:26] <rodrigo_> but yes, I guess we'd want to call accountsservice
[15:32] <mvo> rodrigo_: nice, I check it out
[15:48] <cyphermox> seb128: I notice shotwell isn't building, are you looking at it already or can I take care of it?
[15:50] <ricotz> updating qt4 multiarch installation is quite a pita :(
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, https://twitter.com/#!/nitot/status/139709707031019520 ;)
[16:01] <seb128> re
[16:01] <seb128> mvo, cracking the whip for dholbach yes ;-)
[16:02] <seb128> cyphermox, check with mterry, I asked him if he could have a look yesterday
[16:02] <seb128> cyphermox, but I'm not working on it
[16:02] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks
[16:02] <seb128> cyphermox, while you are around, did you plan to sru the evo updates?
[16:02] <cyphermox> yup
[16:02] <seb128> ok
[16:03] <seb128> thanks
[16:03] <cyphermox> this afternoon I can definitely finish that up
[16:03] <chrisccoulson> wow, consecutive firefox and thunderbird builds. my old laptop would have burst in to flames doing this :)
[16:03] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: nice. ;)
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> and i can still do other stuff!
[16:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, I already saw it ;)
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, you mean that you already saw the adverts?
[16:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, the tweet
[16:05] <didrocks> I'm not using chrome but chromium
[16:05] <didrocks> not sure if it will get it
[16:06] <pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-desktop-team.html is reset
[16:06] <pitti> and all the user charts, too
[16:06] <dpm> hi pitti, good afternoon. I'm looking at the release schedule - do you know what the LanguagePackTestRebuild milestone is? -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[16:06] <pitti> so now the trend lines will actually make sense
[16:07] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i ran chromium at the weekend and monitored outgoing http packets whilst i was typing addresses in to the addressbar
[16:07] <pitti> dpm: I think the "Test" is a misnomer; we'll rebuild teh beta-1 packages at that day
[16:07] <pitti> dpm: oh, no, we don't; it's a week later
[16:07] <dpm> yeah, that's what confused me
[16:07] <chrisccoulson> i knew that every keypress in the addressbar is sent to google for the search suggestions to work, but i was alarmed to realize that it also sent my login cookie for my google account :/
[16:08] <dpm> pitti, yeah, it's before the translation deadline
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> so not only do google see every URL i type in the addressbar, but they can associate that information with a specific individual
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> scary stuff ;)
[16:08] <pitti> dpm: so maybe the "Test" was intended indeed; but I have no idea who put that in or for what
[16:08] <pitti> it's not like they undergo major structural changes
[16:09] <dpm> pitti, it might have just meant the final build, but has been put in the wrong table cell
[16:09] <dpm> I'll ask skaet when she's back
[16:09] <pitti> dpm: I just talked to her, quick!
[16:10] <pitti> she's about to go back to turkey :)
[16:10] <pitti> dpm: but no urgency here, I guess
[16:10] <dpm> ah, cool :)
[16:10] <dpm> no, no rush, I was just curious
[16:13] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, if you use firefox and the search bar, I guess the search results (if you press enter) is done under your google login as well, isn't it?
[16:13] <pitti> TTFN, see you tomorrow!
[16:13] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, for search results. not for URL's though, which is why firefox has a separate search box and addressbar :)
[16:14] <didrocks> see you pitti!
[16:14] <Laney> are you going to keep banshee / tomboy / gbrainy / mono in supported-desktop-extra?
[16:14] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, that's true that google will know every address I'm visiting
[16:15] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm unsure how they can stock and process all those info btw :)
[16:20] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:20] <seb128> pitti, see you on monday, I'm off tomorrow again ;-)
[16:21] <chrisccoulson> slacker :P
[16:23] <mvo> haha - i was thinking the same
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:31] <didrocks> +1
[16:31] <didrocks> :)
[16:31] <didrocks> all those french guys and their billions holidays
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, says the guy who two weeks of holidays recently!
[16:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i've still got 10 days to use up before the end of the year too ;)
[16:49] <seb128> ;-)
[16:49] <seb128> start taking the fridays off!
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> i took a block of time off last december, and basically wrote the globalmenu-extension for firefox during that time
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> perhaps i will have scrollbars working this time ;)
[16:50] <seb128> lol
[16:51]  * didrocks will buy zelda and just enjoy his 16 days of holidays in december :)
[16:51]  * desrt is winner with 25 days left to take this year
[16:51] <didrocks> desrt: 25 days, didn't you take some holidays recently (a week?)
[16:51] <desrt> yup
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> lol. so, you need to basically take the rest of the year off :)
[16:51] <didrocks> see, you have even more holidays than french people!
[16:51] <desrt> problem is that i took no holidays in 2010
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> are there even 25 working days left?
[16:51] <desrt> so all those days came forward to 2011 :)
[16:51] <didrocks> ah, and you can cumulate? :)
[16:52] <desrt> well
[16:52] <desrt> the issue is that i tried to take them but was unable
[16:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: should just have 26 in fact
[16:52] <desrt> so i can't really lose them through no fault of my own
[16:52] <didrocks> indeed
[16:55] <seb128> does somebody on precise feels like building evince from the ubuntu-desktop packaging vcs and tell me if it builds? ;-) I'm reluctant to do other uploads to precise which don't build ;-)
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, just upload it! you can always fix it after feature freeze ;)
[16:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well that's what I've been doing this week slightly, uploading and pinging mterry for the stuff that failed to build. in my defence he said earlier in the week that with his +1 rotation I couldn't ping him about bugs, only stuff that don't build ;-)
[16:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, to be fair I test build them but I'm on a mixed oneiric, precise system, I only upgrade things I need
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> oh, if he's happy to be pinged about stuff which doesn't build:
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/9.0~b2+build1-0ubuntu1/+build/2934170
[16:59] <seb128> in practice that's still closer from oneiric ;-)
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> mterry^^ :)
[16:59] <seb128> lol
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> oh, he's not around :(
[17:01] <ricotz> seb128, cant you use a chroot (like a precise pbuilder) to testbuild it?
[17:03] <ricotz> seb128, you mean https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evince/ubuntu which is 3.2.1-0ubuntu2?
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> ok, new firefox beta works, time to upload
[17:04] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, nice :)
[17:05] <chrisccoulson> unfortunately, beta uploads aren't very exciting. they're basically frozen until release
[17:05] <ricotz> right ;)
[17:06] <ricotz> oh, are the nightly for android out yet with the native ui?
[17:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, that's no fun indeed if he's not around to read it :-(
[17:08] <seb128> ricotz, yeah, I could, I plan to upgrade as well, it's just that it's going to take me some hours to download everything, but no hurry to upload evince
[17:09] <seb128> ricotz, it should be 1ubuntu1 in that vcs, I just merged on debian and pushed it
[17:10] <ricotz> seb128, i have an updated precise here -- repo is still at rev134
[17:13] <seb128> ricotz, doh, now it's pushed, sorry about that
[17:13] <seb128> seems like I didn't enter my passphrase during that session
[17:13] <seb128> it was waiting for it
[17:13] <ricotz> ok, now it is there ;)
[17:20] <desrt> pitti: nice blog post
[17:21] <desrt> pitti: really looking forward to that
[17:21] <desrt> viewing it from the other side, when i get a crash report i tend to ignore it because i think "oh.. they surely know about this one already"
[17:22] <desrt> so having it pop up and not say "we already know about this" will be some indication that maybe i should go through the bother of reporting
[17:34] <ricotz> seb128, builds and runs
[17:34] <seb128> ricotz, thanks for testing!
[17:34] <ricotz> seb128, np
[17:37] <rodrigo_> out for a bit, bbl
[18:00] <didrocks> ok, time for dinner, see you tomorrow everyone and enjoy your week-end seb128 :)
[18:18] <seb128> mvo, thanks for the squid-deb-proxy sponsoring
[18:18] <seb128> mvo, did you see the 2 other urls I pinged about (just making sure, no hurry to look at those)


[05:18] <OerHeks> miauw
[05:21] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Dutch for English Meow - cat means to get ones attention - ?
[05:22] <OerHeks> prrrrt prrrt prrrt
[05:22] <OerHeks> yes, Bashing-om
[05:22] <OerHeks> I am bad in phonetic writing
[05:30] <Bashing-om> In spite of in-place standards, perhaps we would all be better off to practice phonetic writing, Hummmm .
[05:38] <OerHeks> nom nom nom
[05:38] <OerHeks> = cheese sandwich
[05:39] <Bashing-om> Now that ^ we do understand !  The USA may be in for a big one again .
[05:48] <Bashing-om> OK, eyes are crossing. beddy bye for me .
[06:12] <ducasse> morning all
[06:22] <OerHeks> hey ducasse
[06:27] <ducasse> hi OerHeks - how are you and drapper today?
[06:41] <OerHeks> He had a cold yesterday, nearly crying .. but we are oke now, thanks. how are you ?
[06:41] <OerHeks> did you feel the frost ?
[06:41] <OerHeks> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-10-yakkety-yak-final-freeze-now-in-effect-it-launches-on-october-13-509047.shtml
[07:01] <ducasse> oh, poor drapper. my cat is refusing to go outside, it's cold here.
[07:01] <ducasse> currently upgrading to yakkety, almost finished with the laptop.
[07:06] <OerHeks> Is there a way to edit the !unetbootin factoid and change it to etcher ? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/etcher-usb-image-burner-tool-linux-open-source
[07:06] <OerHeks> multi platform, and multi os tool, linux/osx/windows
[07:08] <ducasse> OerHeks: /msg ubottu !no, unetbootin is <reply> factoid text goes here
[07:08] <Ben64> except that would be silly
[07:08] <Ben64> unetbootin is not unetbootin
[07:09] <OerHeks> well,  a warning for the unetbootin bug would be helpfull in that factoid
[07:09] <OerHeks> and the tool is not really helpfull, only linux isos
[14:02] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[22:38] <Bashing-om> !info dbconfig-common


[11:39] <mdke> morning all
[15:55] <j1mc> hello doc-people
[15:55] <mdke> hiya j1mc
[15:55] <j1mc> hi mdke
[16:00] <j1mc> mdke: had you heard anything about the doc utility put together by canonical?  that came as a surprise to me.
[16:00] <mdke> j1mc: you mean kyle's project?
[16:00] <j1mc> in looking at the wiki and launchpad history, it seems like something that has come together recently.
[16:01] <j1mc> yes
[16:01] <mdke> not much, only what he has posted to the list
[16:01] <j1mc> right
[16:03] <mdke> i really think that he needs to work closely to shaunm, because it overlaps very heavily with gnome-doc-utils from what I can see in terms of features
[16:04] <Rocket2DMn> hey guys, just FYI the community docs are inaccessible
[16:04] <Rocket2DMn> you may have already known that
[16:05] <mdke> hmm?
[16:05] <Rocket2DMn> ERROR - The requested URL could not be retrieved
[16:05] <mdke> ouch
[16:05] <Rocket2DMn> are you able to access?
[16:05] <mdke> nope, I'll report
[16:05] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: no
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> ok, so we're not (completely) crazy
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> thanks mdke
[16:06] <Rocket2DMn> ah, so the community doc server (or its proxy) is called yangmei
[16:06] <j1mc> thanks to you, too, connor
[16:07] <mdke> looks like a proxy issue yeah
[16:07] <Rocket2DMn> the forums have had problems in the past with their proxy
[16:07] <Rocket2DMn> not recently though
[16:07] <Rocket2DMn> j1mc, i didnt pick up on it, my buddy cprofitt did
[16:08] <Rocket2DMn> i'm just the messenger today
[16:08] <j1mc> :)
[16:08] <Rocket2DMn> BTW, we're gonna get a community doc page on Grub2 real soon, drs305 is finishing it up in the next couple of days i believe
[16:09] <j1mc> mdke & Rocket2DMn ... it seems like the new documentation utility is docbook-focused... it seems like the mallard stuff is still up in the air.
[16:09] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: that is great
[16:09] <j1mc> finding documentation on grub2 is a little difficult
[16:09] <Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc , there is a page on w.u.c but it is geared toward testers
[16:09] <mdke> j1mc: I think it is in very early stages as yet. But gnome-doc-utils is a lot more developed, I think it would make sense for him to base the project off that
[16:09] <Rocket2DMn> drs305 has some very nice forum tutorials on grub2, so i asked him to write the community doc page and he accepted
[16:10] <mdke> shaunm: if you happen to come upon this discussion, we're discussing https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-October/013845.html
[16:10] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: that's great
[16:10] <Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc , i think so too.  Some Beginners Team members have some very good knowledge about different subjects and can therefore write good documentation on them
[16:11] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi.zazen is great with security and virtualization topics, so I've had him help with firewall documentation, and soon to rework KVM pages and a few others
[16:11] <j1mc> mdke: yeah, i think having him collaborate on gnome doc-utils may prove to be most beneficial
[16:12] <j1mc> i'm not clear on whether what he's put together is a set of command-line utilities, or if it is something different
[16:13] <mdke> j1mc: worth collaring him at UDS and finding out :)
[16:15] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, it appears that the docs are back up again
[16:25] <mdke> cool
[16:28] <Gwaihir> j1mc: I was looking at Kyle branch, looks like he has created a doc template for programs, a directories structure that you can put inside your project, edit a couple of Makefiles and you are done setting up the documentation part
[16:28] <Gwaihir> oh... obviously you still have to write the documentation though :)
[16:29] <j1mc> Gwaihir: interesting
[16:38] <shaunm> mdke: yeah, I'd definitely like to see at least some of that effort put into g-d-u
[16:38] <shaunm> we have old docbook templates in the gnome-docu module
[16:38] <shaunm> but I think they do more harm than good, because they encourage you to write without planning
[16:39]  * mdke nods
[16:40] <mdke> shaunm: I'll post something to encourage Kyle to look at g-d-u too
[16:40] <shaunm> not saying we can't identify common document patterns and do some sort of templating for them
[16:42] <shaunm> it's actually something I've been wanting to do for mallard documents.  provide templates for common page types, with comments containing instructions on how you *probably* should organize information for that page
[16:42] <shaunm> but planning and organizing a document is a different beast than deciding how to put words to paper on a single page
[16:43] <mdke> yes, I agree
[16:43] <shaunm> (obviously, I can't really speak to the sorts of integration features you might want in LP)
[16:44] <mdke> I don't think that should matter
[16:44] <mdke> Launchpad does its own integration really, at least as far as translations are concerned
[17:43] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, what do you think we should do with bug 442417, there hasn't been any further feedback from the desktop team
[17:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 442417 in ubuntu-docs ""Text Editor" changed to "gedit Text Editor" in Applications->Accessories" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442417
[17:54] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I chatted to seb about it and he said he would get back to me as a few people had complained about the menu entry, but he hasn't... leave it open for now
[17:55] <mdke> afk for a bit
[17:55] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[19:39] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: hi what's up
[19:40] <Rocket2DMn> hi dhillon-v10 , just watching some football
 do you have some time to look over my document that I was working on
[19:41] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, what document is that?
[19:41] <dhillon-v10>  http://docs.google.com/View?id=dctjtzjg_113nnb93qf6
 I worked hard on this one
[19:42] <dhillon-v10> :)
[19:43] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, where is this document supposed to go?
 system docs. its the user guide for gnome-display apperance
[19:44] <Rocket2DMn> I don't believe the system docs have screenshots in them
 :( really now I'll have to remove that
[19:45] <Rocket2DMn> ok, welli can see some stuff already that isn't quite right
[19:45] <Rocket2DMn> for example, in Chapter 2, you said "System -> Administration -> Restricted Drivers Manager "
[19:45] <Rocket2DMn> it should be Hardware Drivers right?
[19:46] <dhillon-v10> yes
[19:46] <dhillon-v10> sorry about that
[19:46] <dhillon-v10> its fixed
[19:46] <Rocket2DMn> also, the gnome-display-properties doesn't work for nvidia restricted drivers, you need to use their utility
[19:47] <dhillon-v10> but they are downloaded through the same utility
[19:47] <Rocket2DMn> they are downloaded through Hardware Dribers
[19:48] <Rocket2DMn> but if you try to open gnome-display-properties, it will say that the graphics driver does not support the necessary extensions to use the tool
[19:48] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn> yah that's what I wrote in the document right...
[19:48] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, in your topics list at the top, you don't need phrases like "Talk about"
 I am going to remove all that its just for review
[19:49] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[19:49] <dhillon-v10> :) so what do you think
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, at the beginning, try to avoid using "I" or "me"
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> "I’m going to assume"
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> also, a VGA port on the back of the computer is not the only place to plug in monitors
[19:50] <Rocket2DMn> there are also DVI ports, or HDMI, both of which can be used to plug in monitors or TVs
 alright, Phil told me about not using I its for review, I will fix the VGA ports part
[19:51] <dhillon-v10> I'll make it third person
[19:51] <Rocket2DMn> do you know if X needs to be restarted for a second monitor to be detected, or will it hotplug?
 It will have to be restarted so X can change the configuration
 hotplug might work but restarting X is a safer way
[19:53] <Rocket2DMn> Then you should mention that in chapter 1
[19:53] <Rocket2DMn> i'm not really sure about it though, like you should be able to plug in to projectors and whatnot without having tpo restart X
[19:54] <dhillon-v10>  <Rocket2DMn> yes that's true but do you think I should mention that restarting X is a safer way so it should be followed or just mention hotplugging
[19:55] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure, you may just say that X may need to be restarted if the second moinitor isn't detected when you hotplug and try to enable it within X
 ah, effective use of language :)
[19:58] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn> wait a sec. if you go by using the GUI to add a new monitor it will prompt you to log out for changes to take effect so what do you think about that
[19:59] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, that's fine, as long as it's documented
 alright, so now I'll have to remove all the screenshots and write parts of the doc. over again right
[20:00] <Rocket2DMn> i dont think there is a lot of rewriting to do
 yay! I actually did something useful for the community
[20:00] <Rocket2DMn> :)
 so what happens after I fix those errors, email the doc to you
[20:02] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, it is better if you find out where exactly in the docs it should go, then open a bug report and attach the text
[20:02] <Rocket2DMn> you can also email the list
 it was on the To-Do list so I started working on it now I have to format the doc. with docbook code and then I'll email the list
[20:03] <Rocket2DMn> im not sure what documentaiton may already exist for the stuff you wrote iup
 the To-Do list said none existed for that
[20:04] <Rocket2DMn> ok, im just saying that idk, I havent looked
 can you update the wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks on the gnome-display task so no one else starts working on the same document
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, you can update the page yourself
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> it's a public wiki
 cool, I didn't know I could do that because that page is important
 one quick question are there any online services that convert txt to docbook format
[20:09] <Rocket2DMn> not that i know of, you can't convert plain text to docbook since it cant determine what things should have tags
[20:09] <Rocket2DMn> although, it may be able to pickup some stuff, there may be a html-to-docbook xslt somewhere
 alright I will find something, thank you very much for helping me here
[20:10] <Rocket2DMn> sure thing
 In 3 years from now I'll catch up to you :P
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> lol, it doesnt take that long.  you just gotta give the illusion that you know what you're doing ;)
[20:14] <dhillon-v10> alright bye
[21:12] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: does gufw have a manual now? or did you remove it from the Tasks wiki page on the basis that there is something included in the keeping-safe document?
[21:15] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, on the basis that it is outlined int he keeping-safe document
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> if that's not adequate we can add it back to the list
[21:16] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok. It still doesn't have a manual though, it think it needs onboard documentation that goes into more detail
[21:16] <mdke> s/it/I
[21:16] <mdke> and a help button
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> oic, is the Help menu in Gufw supposed to take you to something in ubuntu-docs ?
[21:17] <mdke> no, not necessarily
[21:18] <mdke> normally it should point at a manual for the application
[21:18] <mdke> sometimes that could be a part of ubuntu-docs, but it doesn't have to be
[21:18] <Rocket2DMn> ok, we can add it back to the list, my bad
[21:19] <mdke> ok, I'll do it
[21:19] <Rocket2DMn> thanks, sorry about that
[21:20] <mdke> np at all


[00:10] <alesan> hey, a question, do you think "pulseaudio" will be used for hardy?
[00:11] <Toma-> seems so
[00:15] <alesan> thanks
[03:10] <shirish> hi guys, does anybody know of some good project management systems/PMS they can tell me ?
[03:28] <bardyr> shirish, i dont think any have been uploaded to hardy yet
[03:29] <shirish> bardyr: any which were in gutsy? I wanna know if ubuntu has had any good PMS tools ever
[03:29] <bardyr> shirish, i dont know i dont use them, but there should be a couple good ones
[03:30] <bardyr> shirish,  but this channel is for Hardy Development talk, general linux/ubuntu is in #ubuntu
[03:30] <bardyr> :)
[03:31] <shirish> bardyr: I'm using Hardy, I was just asking if somebody knew, but you're right, that question should be for #ubuntu
[03:32] <bardyr> shirish, im probably to anal i just got the same response thrown in my head to many times
[03:33] <shirish> bardyr: btw see if you can comment something on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3780327#post3780327
[03:34] <bardyr> shirish, whats the problem?
[03:35] <shirish> broken packages if I try to do a full-upgrade, the only issue they have held back for about a week now. It normally doesn't take that much time.
[03:35] <Hobbsee> depends.  it can take much longer
[03:36] <Hobbsee> but really, you should know how to resolve them by now, as you like continuously running dev versions.
[03:36] <bardyr> !info xmms
[03:36] <ubotu> xmms: Versatile X audio player. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.2.10+20070601-1 (gutsy), package size 2101 kB, installed size 6292 kB
[03:37] <Hobbsee> particualrly with something like xfwm4, which doesnt have any paid devs on it anyway
[03:37] <Hobbsee> that needs a merge.
[03:37] <shirish> Hobbsee: you are right, I should, but don't so any help would be appreciable.
[03:37] <Hobbsee> so yeah, will probably take a while.
[03:37] <Hobbsee> seeing as there are ~500 things to merge in universe alone, last i checked.
[03:38] <shirish> phew, /me whistles
[03:39] <Hobbsee> and why *are* you running medibuntu stuff on a hardy system?
[03:39] <Hobbsee> most of that will likely break, and you can fix it yourself.
[03:39] <Hobbsee> or, go to medibuntu for support.
[03:40] <bardyr> Hobbsee, do you got any idea when we can expect a kernel update?
[03:40] <Hobbsee> bardyr: before the first lot of cds.
[03:40] <bardyr> kk
[03:40] <bardyr> so any day now :)
[03:40] <Hobbsee> not really
[03:40] <Hobbsee> other stuff needs merging first
[03:41] <Hobbsee> but they're working on it
[03:41] <bardyr> first alpha is out 29th
[03:41] <bardyr> any day == ~10days
[03:41] <Hobbsee> wow, thought it must be soonish, yeah.
[03:47]  * Hobbsee ponders attempting to upgrade xorg again
[03:51] <bardyr> Hobbsee, xorg have been working for some time now?
[03:52] <Hobbsee> bardyr: not on intel cards - driver is very chuggy
[03:52] <bardyr> Hobbsee, oh then get the intel 2.2.0 release :)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> requires the drm stuff in hte kernel.
[07:15] <Laser87> Hi!
[07:29] <Xemanth^> Laser87: hi
[13:22] <IdleOne> why is FF3.0 being placed in Applications > Other instead of Internet?
[13:24] <Balaams_Miracle> IdleOne: probably because FF3 is still alpha software
[13:24] <Pici> *beta, but its all the same.
[13:24] <IdleOne> makes sense
[13:27] <Balaams_Miracle> Oh wait, this is Hardy (forgot which room i was in). Haven't been playing with Hardy yet, so it's quite possible that there is a beta in the Hardy repo's. I was looking at the Gutsy repos which contains 3.0 ~ alpha 8
[13:28] <IdleOne> Balaams_Miracle: your answer still applies :)
[13:29] <Pici> !info firefox-3.0
[13:29] <Balaams_Miracle> :-)
[13:29] <ubotu> firefox-3.0: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla (Development Version). In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0~alpha8+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 1130 kB, installed size 3832 kB
[13:29] <Pici> !info firefox-3.0 hardy
[13:29] <ubotu> firefox-3.0: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla (Development Version). In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0~alpha8+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 1130 kB, installed size 3832 kB
[13:29] <Pici> oh well.
[13:29] <IdleOne> lightweight is sorta not exactly the truth
[13:30] <Balaams_Miracle> Not anymore :-)
[13:30] <IdleOne> I guess if you compare it to IE it is
[13:30] <IdleOne> but even then ...
[13:30] <Balaams_Miracle> If people want lightweight, they should use Lynx :-)
[13:31] <IdleOne> !info lynx
[13:31] <ubotu> lynx: Text-mode WWW Browser. In component main, is optional. Version 2.8.6-2ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 1138 kB, installed size 4860 kB
[13:31] <IdleOne> yeah I would like a real lightweight GUI browser that doesnt lock up my pc
[13:32] <IdleOne> that actualy works and is still being maintained
[13:32]  * Balaams_Miracle uses Opera...
[13:33] <IdleOne> Epiphany seems the closest I can get. havent tried opera yet
[13:34] <IdleOne> wowndering if having 5 different browsers installed would affect performance
[13:34] <IdleOne> I dont see why it would though not like I run all 5 at same time
[13:35] <IdleOne> is Opera packaged?
[13:35] <Balaams_Miracle> It shouldn't affect your perf, but as you say, it would if you ran them all simultaneously
[13:36] <Balaams_Miracle> It used to be, but i prefer to use the opera repo mysepf (deb.opera.com)
[13:36] <Balaams_Miracle> mysepf = myself
[13:37] <avatar_> IdleOne: #deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu     gutsy   partner main
[13:37] <IdleOne> avatar_: I run hardy
[13:38] <avatar_> IdleOne: i think that one wil work for hardy also
[13:39] <Balaams_Miracle> Time to "upgrade" my Gutsy VM to Hardy...
[13:40] <IdleOne> I hate this .....computer
[13:41] <IdleOne> only good thing about it is that it is consistantly a piece of crap
[13:45] <IdleOne> Balaams_Miracle: what repo do I need to use? sid?
[13:50] <Balaams_Miracle> I always use sarge, but i don't know if that's the best one for Ubuntu users
[14:07] <IdleOne> Opera is nice. Have a good day folks
[14:30] <pvandewyngaerde> can i install   latex-xcolor  from the hardy repo ?   i need 2.11 ,  with 2.09 nothing compiles anymore
[14:32] <Tomcat_> pvandewyngaerde: If it works out for the deps, sure...
[14:33] <pvandewyngaerde> and do you know how ??  i have 64 bit ?
[15:09] <Tomcat_> pvandewyngaerde: Download the package from packages.ubuntu.com, install it. :o
[15:09] <Tomcat_> pvandewyngaerde: If you don't know the specifics, I guess it's best if you don't try it... might mess up.
[17:55] <nanonyme> hmm, which do you think will break my system more: using a self-compiled kernel or trying out hardy? :P
[17:55]  * nanonyme bets for hardy and proceeds with the compiling
[20:44] <icangoogleit> ping ompaul
[20:44] <icangoogleit> ompaul ping
[20:44] <icangoogleit> ompaul
[20:50] <icangoogleit> ompaul
[20:50] <icangoogleit> did it work now?
[20:50] <icangoogleit> ^_^
[20:58] <ompaul> na
[20:58]  * ompaul goes to config again
[21:00] <icangoogleit> ompaul
[21:01] <ompaul> got that
[21:01] <ompaul> not the signal
[23:00] <ouellettesr> what repositories do I use
[23:00] <ouellettesr> haha
[23:06] <humbolto> Why does the Xen kernel not support CPU frequency scaling? Does not make much sense considering that some people want to use Xen for running Windows and Linux side by side on their laptops.