[02:29] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[09:31] <ice9> how to upgrade to 24.04 beta from 23.10 ?
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> !next | ice9


[15:17] <scootergrisen> Where can i find/translate this string: "Please remove the installation medium, then press ENTER:"? Can bee seen efter installation before reboot
[15:17] <scootergrisen> And this string from the installer: "Install third-party softwarea for graphics and Wi-Fi hardware, MP3 and other media"
[15:24] <scootergrisen> How do i download all files for one languages from launchpad?


[12:03] <NRWlion> hi there
[12:05] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha NRWlion
[12:05] <NRWlion> the man who is always there
[12:05] <NRWlion> MrChrisDruif:
[12:05] <NRWlion> :D
[12:05] <NRWlion> hoe gaat die?
[12:05] <MrChrisDruif> Not always
[12:05] <MrChrisDruif> Pretty good
[12:05] <NRWlion> sounds great
[12:06] <NRWlion> i have some stress (work) to finish by tonight
[12:06] <NRWlion> so i am away now
[12:06] <MrChrisDruif> Well....GET TO IT!
[12:06] <MrChrisDruif> :P
[12:06] <NRWlion> just checking if akgraner had some new
[12:06] <NRWlion> s
[12:36] <NRWlion> hi matt!
[12:47] <ghoulmann> akgraner: sorry I missed you! left my client on at work all night, which was misleading. I'll be on day today.
[12:49] <NRWlion> ghoulmann: hi there ;)
[12:50] <ghoulmann> greetings, good to see you
[12:53] <NRWlion> vice versa ;)
[12:53] <NRWlion> how are things?
[12:53] <NRWlion> btw. MrChrisDruif you are allowed to participate in this convo ;) no lurking :P
[12:54] <MrChrisDruif> Where, what?
[12:54] <ghoulmann> NRWlion: so far so good, but it's still earlier and all could still go to hell :) I teach, so every day is an adventure and a stand up routine.
[12:55] <MrChrisDruif> What do you wanna talk about NRWlion ?
[12:57] <ghoulmann> i think i have a substantive question - what does the publication use as a style guide?
[13:02] <ghoulmann> ...that is, to where does it turn for matters of conventional grammar, usage?
[13:06] <Pendulum> ghoulmann: American English
[13:06] <Pendulum> I'm not sure we've ever gotten more specific than that, but usually I do stuff based off Chicago Manual of Style (mostly because that's what we used when I was working in publishing)
[13:09] <ghoulmann> ok. i'm happy with any, as long as there's consistency.
[13:09] <ghoulmann> Pendulum: thanks for the response
[13:12] <Pendulum> the big thing is American English
[13:12] <ghoulmann> ok, i'm set there.
[13:13] <Pendulum> otherwise I think I've been the final proofreader on several issues and I don't always think specifically for a style guide, just make sure it's consistant
[13:14] <ghoulmann> that's my priority as well. But when there's an inconsistency, it's nice to be able to appeal to single authority, regardless how arbitrary.
[13:18] <Pendulum> :)
[13:18]  * NRWlion waits for a response on his proposal to the list until he is able to continue work
[13:18] <Pendulum> also, we don't correct spelling/punctuation mistakes inside quotations usually
[13:31] <NRWlion> ok now i know where i never would like to work inside this team ... proofreading cause my english is bad as hell regarding spelling & punctuation
[13:41] <ghoulmann> NRWlion: I teach rhetoric and comp. The last thing I want to do is correct petty errors unless they cause confusion. I prefer substantive revision and contributing to editorial decisions, but I have broad skills and a commitment, so I'll work toward being an asset in any way I'm useful.
[13:43] <Pendulum> heh
[13:43] <Pendulum> ghoulmann: where do you teach?
[13:46] <ghoulmann> a high school in maryland, Prior at WVU and Bethany College.
[13:47] <ghoulmann> literature primarily, but also advanced tech and writing.
[13:48] <Pendulum> nice :)
[13:49]  * Pendulum will be spending some time in Maryland later this summer
[13:49] <ghoulmann> it is nice to go to work happy.
[13:49] <ghoulmann> Pendulum: let me know if you need a couch or a ride.
[13:50] <Pendulum> heh. I'll be down for surgery so will probably be in hospital for about 1/2 of it
[13:50] <ghoulmann> eeg.
[13:50] <Pendulum> but one of my other specialists is also in MD so I'm down every 6 months or so anyway
[13:51] <Pendulum> I'm thinking pre-surgery I might try to hold an Ubuntu Hour if I can get the MD LoCo interested
[13:51] <ghoulmann> they are great.
[13:51] <Pendulum> since when I was down last month I went to a DC LoCo meetup
[13:51] <ghoulmann> much more active than dc loco, from what i can tell
[13:51] <Pendulum> (I stayed with maco for part of my time down last month)
[13:52] <ghoulmann> cool. i don't see much action from dc, but a lot of pr and marketing from MD.
[13:52] <Pendulum> *nods*
[13:52] <ghoulmann> i'm trying to get 12.04 release party hosted at my school.
[13:53] <Pendulum> :)
[13:53] <Pendulum> not 11.10?
[13:54] <MrChrisDruif> 12.04? That's next year
[13:55] <ghoulmann> confused and hasty. I expect the next release to be during summer (without figuring it out. too hasty, yes 11.10
[13:55] <ghoulmann> !s/expect/expected/
[13:55] <Pendulum> s'ok
[13:55] <Pendulum> releases are every 6 months :)
[13:55] <Pendulum> so April and October
[13:55] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[13:55] <Pendulum> (with the exception of Dapper which was delayed until June when it came out, but that was before my time)
[13:55]  * ghoulmann nods
[14:11] <MrChrisDruif> Before any of use /me thinks
[17:14] <NRWlion> aloha
[18:30] <pleia2> akgraner: did you submit an rt ticket about the caching problems on ubuntu-news.org? I didn't see anything go to the editor account
[18:30] <pleia2> I can submit the ticket if needed
[18:32] <pleia2> it's really bad :\
[18:37] <nhandler> pleia2: What is getting cached?
[18:38] <pleia2> nhandler: I never see new posts when I go to ubuntu-news.org (and www.ubuntu-news.org is even worse)
[18:38] <pleia2> I have to refresh a bunch of times, even then it doesn't always work
[18:38] <pleia2> different browsers, different computers, akgraner said she saw similar behavior
[18:38] <nhandler> pleia2: Ah, ok. I clear my cache rather frequently, so I haven't noticed.
[18:40] <pleia2> even on a browser I've never gone to it on I get the ubuntu open week post from a month ago as the top post, nothing recent
[18:41] <pleia2> you're not seeing this behavior at all?
[18:41] <nhandler> Nope. I get jcastro's recent unity post
[18:42] <pleia2> I can't see that at all :(
[18:42]  * nhandler makes a note that we need to finalize some content guidelines for the fridge still
[18:43] <pleia2> all I see is the latest ocelot post
[18:45] <pleia2> I can see it if I go to the direct url though
[18:46] <pleia2> 10:41:35 <&pleia2> can someone go to ubuntu-news.org and tell me the top post they see?
[18:46] <pleia2> 10:45:55 <@jedijf> Ubuntu Open Week: May 2-6 2011
[18:46] <pleia2> 10:46:02 < jamalta> pleia2: open week
[18:46] <pleia2> 10:45:55 <@jedijf> By akgraner | Published: 2011-05-02
[18:46] <pleia2> yeah, it's broken
[18:46] <pleia2> 10:46:26 < sn9> Ubuntu Open Week: May 2-6 2011
[18:46] <nhandler> pleia2: Out of curiosity, are you logged in to the site right now?
[18:47] <pleia2> it says I am, but that's cached too, let me log in again
[18:47] <pleia2> when I'm logged in I can see new posts
[18:49] <nhandler> pleia2: I just tried connecting while not logged in, that gives me the Open Week post. Could it be a permission problem?
[18:50] <pleia2> nhandler: possibly, but I've never seen this before and I don't know what changed
[18:51] <nhandler> Neither do I. But it is definitely worth noting that being logged in shows the newer posts.
[18:52] <pleia2> looking at individual posts there aren't any obvious difference between old and new posts
[18:53] <nhandler> Yeah, and I'm not seeing anything under Settings that would cause this
[18:53] <pleia2> alright, I'm going to assume akgraner didn't submit the ticket and I'll go ahead and submit one now
[18:53] <pleia2> I'll cc the fridge editors gmail account
[18:54] <nhandler> pleia2: Thanks.
[19:04] <pleia2> ok, we have ticket 17242
[19:04] <pleia2> akgraner: what's the ticket number for the openid problem?
[19:05]  * nhandler really wishes there was a way to use the ubuntu login to add CCs to a ticket
[19:05] <pleia2> that would be nice
[19:06] <pleia2> it's interesting that they use rt at all rather than lp
[19:13] <nhandler> pleia2: LP really doesn't work well for tasks. The permission settings also don't allow as fine grain control.
[19:13] <pleia2> yeah
[19:13] <nhandler> They were also using rt before lp was around, so it would require a change in workflow
[20:46] <NRWlion> hi every1
[22:24] <NRWlion> hi @ll
[22:24] <ghoulmann|home> greets
[22:24]  * NRWlion returns the greets immediately
[22:26] <NRWlion> ghoulmann: how is it going? safely returned from shift as teacher?
[22:26]  * NRWlion thinks that ghoulmann was the teacher
[22:27] <ghoulmann|home> still am :)
[22:27]  * MrChrisDruif thinks NRWlion remembered correctly ;)
[22:27] <ghoulmann|home> thanks for listening to me blather enough to remember.
[22:27] <NRWlion> ghoulmann: that is what journalists do ;)
[22:28] <ghoulmann|home> hm, you managed not to bias it :)
[22:28] <NRWlion> to what?
[22:28] <ghoulmann|home> my short story.
[22:29] <ghoulmann|home> to anything.
[22:30] <ghoulmann|home> i've got a student doing an indie study on backtrack. it's killing me trying to keep up.
[22:30]  * MrChrisDruif isn't a journalist <_<"
[22:30] <NRWlion> ghoulmann: sorry its ticking towards midnight so i am not able to understand everything properly
[22:30] <NRWlion> ;)
[22:31] <MrChrisDruif> NRWlion; Still a half hour away ;)
[22:31] <ghoulmann|home> fair enough :)
[22:31]  * NRWlion celebrates another "victory" over MrChrisDruif and hides immediately#
[22:31] <NRWlion> :P
[22:31] <MrChrisDruif> A victory over me?
[22:31] <NRWlion> ghoulmann: you must know that MrChrisDruif and I are fooling around a little since we first met here online
[22:32] <NRWlion> MrChrisDruif: you aren't a journalist but i am ;)
[22:32] <MrChrisDruif> Well...wasn't it #lubuntu? ;)
[22:32] <ghoulmann|home> that much is clear :)
[22:32] <NRWlion> MrChrisDruif: right
[22:32] <MrChrisDruif> Well, be happy that you're a journalist and I'm not ;)
[22:33] <MrChrisDruif> I am at least :P
[22:33]  * MrChrisDruif doesn't care for things that won't last ;)
[22:33] <MrChrisDruif> That's why I prefer wiki's...longer lasting if done correctly
[22:33] <ghoulmann|home> going to hunt for fodder. til tomorrow, folks.
[22:34] <NRWlion> MrChrisDruif: ;)
[22:34] <NRWlion> ghoulmann: have a good hunt and a good nice
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> FoddeR?
[22:34] <NRWlion> nice == night
[22:34] <NRWlion> fodder == food i guess
[22:34] <ghoulmann|home> yes.
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> xD
[22:34] <ghoulmann|home> ciao.
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> Alright...good luck
[22:37] <MrChrisDruif> Did you do any of that translating you promised to do NRWlion ? ;)
[22:37]  * MrChrisDruif doesn't forget stuff easily :P
[22:38] <NRWlion> MrChrisDruif: affirmative for SII :D
[22:38] <MrChrisDruif> You would do the same for Lubuntu ;)
[22:39] <NRWlion> would i?
[22:39] <MrChrisDruif> I think you said it once...
[22:40] <MrChrisDruif> Should be viewable in the logs a few months back...if it was in #lubuntu....not sure about #lubuntu-offtopic
[22:41] <NRWlion> well i guess it was -offtopic
[22:43] <MrChrisDruif> Probably :P
[22:43] <MrChrisDruif> :)*
[22:46]  * NRWlion is nervous about an upcoming jobinterview tomorrow
[23:11] <NRWlion> good n8t folks, a long day is waiting for me
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> Sleep well nhandler
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> Woops...
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> Was for NRWlion nhandler


[03:29] <deleted_> Hey there, Unit193
[03:30] <deleted_> Gonna try uninstalling transmission again. I'll let you know what it prompts this time
[03:30] <deleted_> (I made another, more recent backup earlier so I wouldn't have to revert to april 22 again, heh)
[03:31] <deleted_> ok so just uninstalled transmission
[03:31] <deleted_> no issues, removed a few extraeneous packages (chromium codecs) as wlel
[03:31] <deleted_> well here we go
[03:31] <deleted_> I'm gonna put this on pastebin to avoid flodding the channel.
[03:32] <deleted_> bhttp://pastebin.com/EP66h7Hn
[03:32] <deleted_> http://pastebin.com/EP66h7Hn
[03:32] <deleted_> I have absolutely no idea why this is happening
[03:34] <Unit193> 1. Do normal updates (apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade)  2. pastebin apt-cache rdepends transmission-common please.  (FWIW: http://paste.openstack.org/show/o8dlwi4R1gP790bN7YWg )
[03:35] <deleted_> reading
[03:35] <deleted_> I uninstalled transmission without issue
[03:35] <deleted_> gonna do updates
[03:35] <deleted_> thank god for dd, I was panicking when I saw what it was removing last night
[03:36] <Unit193> Ah, alright.  lubuntu-desktop depends on 'transmission', but no loss of a meta.
[03:36] <Unit193> Disk Destroyer to the rescue!
[03:36] <deleted_> haha
[03:36] <deleted_> I may actually set up a cron job to dd my system drive (30GB SSD) to my NAS every week or so
[03:37] <deleted_> just so I don't end up forgetting
[03:37] <deleted_> WELL THEN
[03:37] <deleted_> http://pastebin.com/aiftSmNn
[03:39] <Unit193> You got a lot of crap on there. :P   What release is this?
[03:40] <Unit193> ...This almost looks like half of a dist upgrade.  Look, it removes wayland and puts in wayland-client and -server, those were broken up between releases, IIRC.
[03:40] <deleted_> 13.04
[03:40] <deleted_> Yeah
[03:40] <deleted_> Swore I updated to 13.10
[03:40] <deleted_> guess not lolk
[03:40] <deleted_> lol*
[03:42] <Unit193> Maybe you tried to and got interrupted? :P
[03:42] <deleted_> lol
[03:42] <deleted_> cant recall
[03:42] <deleted_> been a while
[03:42] <deleted_> Well hey at least it's not removing pcmanfm anymore
[03:43] <deleted_> I'm gonna go ahead and run that and let you know how it goes
[03:43] <deleted_> lol, I noticed a package named yelp
[03:43] <deleted_> my first thought was the website
[03:43] <Unit193> It looks safe, but with things like systemd-services, -shim, and others, seems kind of odd.  zeitgeist isn't my favorite but that's more preference.
[03:44] <deleted_> Yeah I removed that last time I did some cleaning
[03:44] <deleted_> I plan on getting rid of it
[03:44] <deleted_> I'm in the same boat as you, I know its not a huge deal I'd just rather not have it lol
[03:45] <Unit193> Yeah, this is funky and looks a lot like a partial upgrade to me.  There's a few things I re-purge after an upgrade, I save the package output from do-release-upgrade and make a purgelist (or update it rather) with anything I want out.
[03:45] <deleted_> Luckily I'm not doing anything on my network so this shouldn't take too long
[03:46] <deleted_> afterwards I'll paste the depends as you requested
[03:46] <deleted_> maybe you can make heads or tails of this
[03:46] <deleted_> cause I sure as hell can't
[03:46] <deleted_> quite curious
[03:46] <Unit193> Nah, don't have to paste it.
[03:47] <deleted_> Any ideas as to why transmission-common was doing what it did?
[03:47] <deleted_> I mean absolute worst case I could just keep it, it's a few megs tops
[04:52] <deleted_> oh lord its updating grub
[04:53] <holstein> deleted_: "its" going to do what the commands you input do
[04:53] <deleted_> indeed
[04:55] <holstein> i think if i were the kind of person to sit around and ponder what i would like to remove from the operation system im using for security reasons, i would just make my own
[04:57] <deleted_> I think you greatly underestimate the amount of work that would require :P
[04:58] <holstein> thinking about, discovering, researching, and removing.. testing, and repairing what is broken.. etc.. these can be time consuming as well
[04:59] <deleted_> I don't think that's comparable to creating an operating system
[04:59] <holstein> deleted_: i dont either
[04:59] <holstein> deleted_: i think its literally the only way to know, top to bottom, what is in the OS.. unless you want to audit everything, which you are welcome to do
[05:00] <deleted_> I agree
[05:00] <holstein> but, why do that, when you can just build from scratch with what you want
[05:00] <holstein> i mean.. i just run lubuntu.. im just saying, if i were concerned, i feel, removing zietgiest and a few other applications doesnt alleviate much
[05:01] <deleted_> yes
[05:02] <deleted_> as I said it's not a big deal
[05:02] <deleted_> but it's only one command to remove
[05:02] <holstein> it can be as big a deal as you like.. its just not really addressing security
[05:06] <deleted_> what do you mean it can be as big a deal as you like
[05:11] <deleted_> Also I'm sorry to leave during a conversation but I should be getting to sleep
[05:11] <deleted_> Perhaps we can continue another time, I'm usually idle here
[05:11] <deleted_> good night
[10:28] <leszek> hi
[11:47] <blindbhavya> Hello
[11:54] <blindbhavya> I am new to the world of IRC so sorry. Anyways, I wanted to know about the accessibility of Lubuntu. Does Orca screen reader work with Lubuntu? Please share as much about Lubuntu as possible
[11:55] <blindbhavya> Also do I need to keep refreshing to know if anyone has replied or the page will automatically get updated if there is a reply? Can I know who is the main developer of Lubuntu her on this IRC?
[12:40] <blindbhavya> Hi. May I know who is the main developer of Lubuntu? I would like to ask about the accessibility implementation in Lubuntu ie screen reader Orca support. Please reply at the earliest.
[13:10] <blindbhavya> Dear all. Please could you all provide me contact details of the main developer of Lubuntu? I want to have a discussion with him/her about the accessibility standards in Lubuntu, especially Orca screen reader support. I would be highly obliged to anyone who get get me in touch with the main dev.
[13:11] <blindbhavya> Please help me. I am waiting for your swift assistance.
[13:13] <Mr_Comet> i think you are better off at ubuntu forums
[13:13] <Mr_Comet> lubuntu shares same forums i guess
[13:20] <blindbhavya> Ok, but I need specific developers of Lubuntu. Please share contact details of main devs of only Lubuntu
[13:22] <blindbhavya> Also, if you may want to get in touch with me via private e-mail my e-mails is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:33] <blindbhavya> Where can I contact the main developers of Lubuntu? I really need to get in touch with the main devs of Lubuntu. Please help.
[13:35] <Mr_Comet> sorry no idea
[13:35] <Mr_Comet> maybe http://ubuntuforums.org
[13:39] <blindbhavya> One second I will check. Also, if you would like to contact me developers Skype username is bhavya.09
[13:44] <Mr_Comet> i am just a lubuntu user like you.
[13:44] <Mr_Comet> i am no way related to development team for lubuntu.
[13:58] <blindbhavya> Dear all. Please tell me who are the main devs of Lubuntu. Plz help me. Tell me if e-mail address and Skype details are needed.
[14:07] <blindbhavya> Dear all. Is there any lubuntu development mailing list?
[14:26] <sakang> I read from DW about the new LXQT release and a ref for Ubuntu ppa.  Tried on utopic but seems to be broken.  Anyone tried it? On trusty perhaps?
[19:28] <trickyhero> hi, is there a lxqt metapackage on the ppa on the dev ppa?
[19:30] <ianorlin> yes there is a metapackage
[19:31] <trickyhero> whats it called?
[19:54] <ianorlin> lxqt-metapackage
[19:55] <trickyhero> of course, thanks
[20:36] <Juby> hello
[20:37] <Juby> i just tried to install lubuntu on an eee pc but it wont work cause build in hdd is 3.7 gb
[20:37] <Juby> is there any posibilities i have?
[20:57] <comics_idees> maybe you should give larger partition tou lubuntu
[20:57] <comics_idees> or install 100% lubuntu if you like
[20:58] <comics_idees> without any partition


[15:12] <Riddell> ping
[15:13] <Riddell> how can I copy https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OneiricUpgrades/Kubuntu
[15:13] <Riddell> to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PreciseUpgrades/Kubuntu ?
[15:17] <jbicha> Riddell: can't you just click the Edit button and copy all the wikicode, then paste it into the new one?
[15:17] <Riddell> jbicha: no, that doesn't copy attachments
[15:18] <phillw> ahh, no copy in extra items. I think you will have to manually re-add the attatchments :/
[15:21] <Riddell> that's something which must have broken since the last time I did this
[15:22] <jbicha> I just tried Package Pages, then Load but that didn't work at all
[15:31] <Riddell> jbicha: you seem to have broken that page
[15:31] <Riddell> can you fix it?
[15:31] <Riddell> oh I fixed it
[15:31] <Riddell> cache issue
[15:31] <Riddell> never mind jbicha


[00:00] <tsimonq2> Brian asked... but didn't follow up. :P
[00:07] <tsimonq2> wxl: good now help with glibc regressions XD https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#glibc
[03:00] <wxl> @teward001 is there any chance you could move this along? https://code.launchpad.net/~arraybolt3/software-properties/+git/software-properties/+merge/438504
[03:59] <tsimonq2> wxl: looking
[04:03] <tsimonq2> wxl: .


[00:00] <liquias> I am using mythbuntu for the first time in my life, I can't understand how to watch avi videos I have on a DVD disc. what do I need to do ?
[02:19] <context-> so uh question :x
[02:19] <context-> the WinTV HVR-1600 is showing up as a V4L device
[02:19] <context-> do i have to use this retarded 'blaster' thing for it to change channels or  can it change channels itself
[02:20] <context-> i just kind of want something that works. ;)
[02:21] <context-> there really isnt much document wise that i see as far as actually getting this up and running
[02:27] <context-> ive got all this disk space and cant use it
[05:24] <bruderbell> Hi folks, anyone here have ideas on troubleshooting IR remotes?
[05:24] <patdk-lap> never liked ir, use bluetooth myself
[05:25] <bruderbell> I've got the network remotes just fine, but my wife (and I) would like to use IR remotes..
[05:26] <bruderbell> Any ideas on channels where I should see if any merciful souls would like to help out?
[05:26] <patdk-lap> what kernel you using?
[05:26] <bruderbell> One sec
[05:26] <bruderbell> I'll look it up
[05:30] <bruderbell> Right
[05:30] <bruderbell> Kernel 2.6.32-32-generic
[05:31] <patdk-lap> so using the old ir stuff
[05:33] <bruderbell> My remote works like a mouse, but I can't get other buttons to function
[05:34] <bruderbell> The arrow keys move the cursor, etc
[07:19] <liquias> how can i see avi movies i have on dvd in mythbuntu
[07:19] <liquias> ?
[07:53] <context-> so... anyone experience myth being retarded and not inserting data it gets from schedulesdirect into the database
[08:32] <liquias> how can i watch avi movies i have on dvd in mythbuntu?
[11:03] <liquias> how can i watch avi movies i have on dvd in mythbuntu?
[11:03] <liquias> anyone ?
[11:35] <patdk-lap> defently not easily
[11:47] <liquias> OK,
[11:47] <liquias> How then ?
[11:48] <liquias> How come this is not trivial ?
[11:49] <liquias> patdk-lap, isn't this something mythtv should be able to support ?
[11:50] <patdk-lap> depends
[11:50] <patdk-lap> it's open source, it can *support* anything you wish to write :)
[11:50] <liquias> o good ! your here ! :)
[11:50] <patdk-lap> but no one I guess has cared to do so, since harddrives are so cheap
[11:51] <liquias> you mean to say it doesn't have the option to do so at the moment ?
[11:51] <liquias> isn't is supposed to act as a DVR ?
[11:52] <liquias> What an I missing ?
[11:53] <patdk-lap> playing avi files from a dvd has nothing to do with a dvr
[11:54] <patdk-lap> dvr is recording and playing back files from a tv tuner
[11:54] <patdk-lap> playing avi files from a dvd would be a hacked up dvd player
[11:54] <liquias> any DVR machine I know can play back DIVX and XVID formats.
[11:55] <liquias> right from the box.
[11:55] <patdk-lap> none that I have ever owned could, they only did mpeg
[11:55] <liquias> im not talking about tivo or anything, just plain dvrs.
[11:55] <patdk-lap> tivo is a dvr
[11:56] <patdk-lap> so what is your so called *plain dvr*
[11:56] <liquias> im from israel. we literally do not have any dvd players or recorders that do not support divx and xvid formats.
[11:56] <patdk-lap> dvd players are not dvr's
[11:57] <liquias> OK.
[11:57] <liquias> I might be confused.
[11:57] <patdk-lap> mythtv is was not made to be a dvd player
[11:57] <liquias> isn't dvr, a DVD recorder ?
[11:57] <patdk-lap> it has very limited dvd support
[11:57] <patdk-lap> no
[11:57] <patdk-lap> dvr is a TV recorder
[11:58] <liquias> what is it then ?
[11:58] <liquias> o
[11:58] <patdk-lap> digital video recorder, used to record tv, so you can watch it later
[11:58] <patdk-lap> aka, tivo
[11:58] <liquias> but,
[11:58] <liquias> tivo records to a harddrive.
[11:59] <patdk-lap> yep, so does myth
[11:59] <patdk-lap> myth doesn't support recording to anything besides a harddrive
[11:59] <patdk-lap> after it's recorded you can optionally choose to export it to something though
[11:59] <liquias> i guess i am confused.
[12:00] <liquias> ok
[12:01] <liquias> we do not hqave those in israel. ( maybe something called yes max )
[12:02] <liquias> is there any way you know if (other than writing it myself) to watch avi movies from a previously burned dvd ?
[12:03] <liquias> maybe an addon or application ?
[12:03] <patdk-lap> I have no idea
[12:03] <patdk-lap> the easest way would be to find a program that can do that
[12:03] <patdk-lap> and get myth to use that instead of it's internal player when playing dvd's
[12:03] <liquias> do you know of any ?
[12:03] <patdk-lap> I'm not sure if making a dvd drive a storage group is a good idea or not, but that might work too
[12:04] <patdk-lap> nope, I never put avi's on dvd's
[12:04] <liquias> i guess i am looking for some kind of media center that can record either to hd and or DVD media ?
[12:04] <patdk-lap> I don't think I even have any avi's
[12:04] <liquias> ?
[12:04] <liquias> do you d/l movies from the internet ? ever ?
[12:05] <patdk-lap> that would be illegal
[12:05] <liquias> i c
[12:06] <liquias> well, do you know of any media center application that can also record either to hd or DVD media ?
[12:12] <liquias> well, do you know of any media center application that can also record either to hd or DVD media ?
[14:42] <tgm4883> patdk-lap, you could probably just add the /media folder as a frontend video location
[14:43] <tgm4883> then just scan for changes in mythvideo to find the avi on the dvd
[15:35] <rhpot1991> or just copy them to your hard drive
[15:59] <bobdole369> Mythbuntu 11.04 64bit - Does anyone know if Mythnetvision is currently working? I add an RSS feed of a video podcast and it opens to a web page of the show for some reason. If I press download, a message: "Downloading xxx" appears in mythfrontend.log but that file doesn't exist.  Also not able to change anything in the rev3.xml file to subscribe to shows that way (and that method also opens a web page for some reason in
[21:15] <ddnmfuems> hi
[21:16] <ddnmfuems> is mythbuntu 11.04 100% compatible with ubuntu 11.04 ?
[21:17] <ddnmfuems> or xubuntu
[21:17] <superm1> ddnmfuems, yeah
[21:18] <superm1> they all use the same ubuntu packages as a base
[21:18] <ddnmfuems> ok thank you
[21:18] <superm1> ubuntu 11.04 has more gnome stuff than mythbuntu
[21:18] <ddnmfuems> i imagine
[21:19] <ddnmfuems> bye
[21:48] <quentusrex_> Anyone know of a solution to the mythbuntu 11.04 pchdtv-5500 issue?
[21:49] <quentusrex_> I'm getting no audio, and I can't watch any along channel other than channel 2
[21:59] <tgm4883> quentusrex_, there is an issue with that?
[22:38] <quentusrex_> tgm4883, something about dsp support dropped in the latest ubuntu kernel and pchdtv-5500 needing it for sound.
[22:39] <tgm4883> quentusrex_, odd, hadn't seen that.
[23:40] <quentusrex_> Anyone familiar with the 'error opening jump program file buffer' error?


[09:14] <Chipaca> good morning peeps!
[09:14] <niemeyer> Moin moin
[09:40] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Didn't get to do a full round of reviews yesterday.. thankfully friends/family called
[09:40] <niemeyer> Got through the harness one, though, and just replied to your first requested point above
[09:41] <Chipaca> niemeyer: glad you got some social interaction in :-)
[09:42] <Chipaca> i went out and had a belated birthday dinner with my uncle and my brother+sister-in-law
[09:42] <Chipaca> we tried not to cough too much at people
[09:43] <Chipaca> now i'm going to finish the HR training thing before they get upset
[10:08] <niemeyer> Replied to #178 as well
[10:40] <Dmitrii-Sh> Thanks for the replies on #157. I made a comment about the "default binding" term here https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/157#discussion_r392150027 - I hope the example makes sense
[10:46] <niemeyer> Replied
[10:48] <Chipaca> i need to step out for a bit
[10:51]  * Chipaca realises he hasn't actually moved
[11:24] <Facu> Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:26] <Chipaca> Facu: o/!
[11:27] <niemeyer> \o
[11:42] <niemeyer> I'm going to skip the standup today as I'm researching something for a call with Mark in a bit.. I've been reviewing and will be reviewing is my main action points
[11:47] <Facu> niemeyer, (no rush, just don't want to drop your comment from yesterday) -- "That DBAvailable event really wants me to make StoredState work there" <-- this means to provide to events the same mechanism of "store whatever you want, then access it later" for the charms, right?
[11:48] <niemeyer> Facu: I meant supporting a _stored = StoredState() attribute in events so people don't need to implement the methods
[11:48] <Facu> niemeyer, having "one mechanism to rule them all" sounds nice, not having to learn two things... however, Events may be simpler than that, we could have the responsability of spawn the same event using the original information automatically, no developer code needed
[11:52] <Facu> we could just "freeze" the events and melt them later... we want for Events to not carry around any extra information, right?
[11:53] <Facu> what about defining the events like this? https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/yzbpvNMKHW/
[11:53] <niemeyer> Facu: The thinking behind StoredState is that it enables people to very clearly define things they do want persisted and things they don't want persisted
[11:53] <Facu> we can take care of having those fields inside, saving them and loading them
[11:54] <niemeyer> Facu: There's no ambiguity when one is using code like self._stored.private_addresss about where that value is coming from, where it goes to
[11:54] <niemeyer> Facu: This already works for anything that is an Object in the framework world
[11:54] <niemeyer> Facu: So this need is not unknown to us, or something we need a different design for I think
[11:55] <Facu> niemeyer, I get that; my point is if we want to encourage people to have "super simple event objects that may carry one or two well-defined pieces of information", or "a generic object with complex machinery that may save some state and flies around"
[11:55] <niemeyer> Facu: If we do change it, we need to change everything else with it so we don't have diverging patterns inside the same logic
[11:55] <niemeyer> Facu: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about too
[11:56] <niemeyer> Facu: I don't see self._stored.private_address as worse than self._private_address + a list of fields elsewhere
[11:56] <niemeyer> Facu: The list of fields means you'll need to read the list of fields again every time you want to know which of the 10 attributes are persisted or not
[11:56] <niemeyer> Seems very error prone and unfriendly
[11:57] <Facu> all those fields are persisted
[11:57] <niemeyer> Facu: All the fields in the list of fields are persisted
[11:57] <niemeyer> Facu: All the fields not in the list of fields are not persisted.. right?
[11:58] <Facu> there are not "fields not in the list", we don't allow them, we enforce the Events to be dead simple
[11:58] <Facu> that pastebin I shown holds *all the code* for the Event the user needs to write (it was not just the beginning)
[12:01] <niemeyer> Facu: So what happens when one needs any kind of logic in the event?  Then the dead simple becomes painful?
[12:01] <niemeyer> Facu: Again.. we have a solution for this problem, because it's a common problem. If our solution needs further improvements, let's do so for everything.
[12:01] <Facu> we want developers to add logic to the event? if yes, let's go with developers handling what they store by hand, yes
[12:02] <niemeyer> Facu: If we want people to be able to use normal Python code in their types?  Yes
[12:03] <niemeyer> Facu: I hope you can see the value in us defining a strong pattern that solves that kind of issue nicely and consistently
[12:04] <niemeyer> Facu: Does StoredState work in events today?
[12:16] <Chipaca> niemeyer: standup?
[12:17] <niemeyer> 11:42:15 <niemeyer> I'm going to skip the standup today as I'm researching something for a call with Mark in a bit.. I've been reviewing and will be reviewing is my main action points
[12:29] <Chipaca> niemeyer: missed that. thanks.
[12:29] <Chipaca> niemeyer: good luck with the call
[12:32] <niemeyer> np, and thanks
[12:34] <jam> Chipaca: no, its just me trying it out. ":return: None" is probably better.
[12:47] <Facu> niemeyer, yes, I totally see the value, my other proposal was a way to super restrict users in what they could do with the events, if we wanted that
[12:49] <Facu> niemeyer, I would need to explore if StoredState works in events today; without exploring/seeing code I don't envision how we could restore/unfreeze an Event that was deferred and make external code to access what the event has stored
[12:51] <niemeyer> Facu: Restoring data is exactly what StoredState does.. both deferred Events and StoredState use the normal persistence system of the framework
[12:51] <niemeyer> Things are not so far apart as they may seem
[12:51] <niemeyer> It probably already works if we make EventBase a child of Object
[12:52] <Facu> let me play with the code a little
[14:15] <Facu> this is weird, I just noticed that the timestamps from "juju debug-log" are local (GMT-3), not UTC (which is how the units are configured)
[14:15] <Facu> which makes me wonder... when I see
[14:15] <Facu> unit-my-super-charm-5: 11:13:56 INFO juju.worker.uniter.relation joined relation "my-super-charm:dumper postgresql:db"
[14:16] <Facu> ...that means that the event happened at minute 13 second 56, or that juju is showing me the message at that time?
[15:15] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/157#discussion_r392289930
[15:16] <niemeyer> Facu: I don't know the response to that.. It would be nice if what you see _locally_ in debug-log is in the local timestamp, though
[15:16] <niemeyer> Facu: I believe the data is stored in UTC, because that's what the db driver will do by default
[15:16] <niemeyer> Facu: But.. don't trust me :)
[15:17] <Facu> so it probably shows me the original timestamp, shifted for my local timezone
[15:18] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: As I said there, we seem to be in very different wavelengths
[15:18] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: I am (and Chipaca is) trying to explain things in a way that makes sense to users
[15:19] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: Saying that we're returning an "app endpoint binding" doesn't make any sense in this context
[15:19] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: The API allows people to bind specific spaces to endpoint names, and to specific relations established
[15:19] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: That's the general framework people will have in mind when they're coding or using the system
[15:20] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: The terminology we pick needs to make sense inside that framework
[15:20] <niemeyer> Facu: I *hope* so
[15:20] <Facu> niemeyer, good enough
[15:24] <Dmitrii-Sh> niemeyer: I think you are right about naming. My suggestion lacks an adjective for "non-relation-specific" bindings.
[15:24] <Dmitrii-Sh> You could have two apps related via their relation endpoints bound to different spaces as of today AFAIK. It doesn't make a lot of practical sense in my view but relation instances themselves cannot be bound to spaces.
[15:25] <Dmitrii-Sh> i.e. one can't say
[15:25] <Dmitrii-Sh> bind "1=myspace"
[15:25] <Dmitrii-Sh> for relation_id=1
[15:29] <niemeyer> I don't think I understand what you're trying to say... we accept a relation instance in that method precisely because people can bind spaces to specific relation IDs.. network-get takes an ID parameter doesn't it?
[15:41] <Dmitrii-Sh> niemeyer: network-get accepts a -r <id> parameter, however, juju doesn't allow things like `juju bind <relation-id>=<space>` or `juju relate <appA> <appB>` via a space
[15:41] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: Sorry, can we focus on that first part for a moment
[15:41] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: What does that mean that network-get accepts a relation ID?
[15:43] <Dmitrii-Sh> One can use `network-get <endpoint-name>` or `network-get -r <rid> <endpoint-name>` https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/juju-2.6.7/worker/uniter/runner/jujuc/network-get.go#L83
[15:43] <Dmitrii-Sh> -r <rid> could only provide a different output in the case of CMR
[15:44] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: If you may get a different binding when you provide an ID, that means a relation instance may in fact be bound to a particular space, right?
[15:47] <Dmitrii-Sh> Not at the moment, a relation id only affects the selection of ingress-address and egress-subnets when CMR is used. It's difficult to explain because the logic is convoluted at the Juju side:
[15:47] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/juju-2.7.4/apiserver/facades/agent/uniter/networkinfo.go#L142-L155
[15:47] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/juju-2.7.4/apiserver/facades/agent/uniter/networkinfo.go#L310-L334
[15:47] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: Man.. can you please stop sending me links? :)
[15:48] <Dmitrii-Sh> OK, simply put: as a user, I cannot specify a space per relation ID - only per endpoint name.
[15:48] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: We're documenting the juju CLI
[15:49] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: We're documenting the operator framework API
[15:49] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: network-get takes a parameter which is a relation ID
[15:49] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: Your code accepts a parameter which is a relation instance.. the method name is get_binding
[15:50] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: This is a very simple story.. the confusion comes if we try to reject what is clear
[15:50] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: We're NOT documenting the juju CLI
[15:52] <niemeyer> The alternative here is to change the API so that we don't do any of that
[15:52] <niemeyer> Taking details out of the binding information
[15:53] <niemeyer> I don't know how to do that cleanly, though, because that's a "network binding", and these are network binding details
[15:53] <niemeyer> If we take egress,  ingress, etc out of the network binding details, where do we put them?
[15:55] <Dmitrii-Sh> not `Relation`s because they might not exist at a given point in time
[15:59] <Dmitrii-Sh> As an idea, since apps have endpoints: self.model.app.<something>
[16:00] <niemeyer> How about this: specific relation instances may have different network bindings
[16:01] <Dmitrii-Sh> so, relation.binding.network.ingress_address would only work if you had a reference to a relation
[16:01] <Dmitrii-Sh> but get_binding(relation_name) would give you a relation-less binding
[16:01] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: We might also make get_binding accept a relation instance
[16:02] <Dmitrii-Sh> well, then we are back to the naming conversation
[16:03] <niemeyer> !!!
[16:07] <Dmitrii-Sh> ok, sorry, I didn't get your point:
[16:07] <Dmitrii-Sh> 1) relation.binding - OK, we could do that
[16:07] <Dmitrii-Sh> 2) get_binding(relation_instance) - OK, it's in the framework already
[16:07] <Dmitrii-Sh> what's the catch?
[16:09] <niemeyer> The catch is this is a long proposal to change something that apparently works, matches what juju does, and is relatively clean, without a rationale
[16:10] <niemeyer> We got into this conversation because I was proposed three lines of documentation to explain what was going on
[16:11] <niemeyer> You disagreed.. and I asked: okay, we have these three scenarios in this method.. how do we document them?
[16:12] <niemeyer> Which then got you to argue with dozens of links :) about how we don't relation-specific bindings
[16:13] <niemeyer> *don't have
[16:13] <niemeyer> Except, well, apparently we do otherwise we cannot explain the behavior
[16:13] <niemeyer> So.. let me know how you want to document it cleanly :)
[16:19] <Dmitrii-Sh> ok, I'll think about an alternative for "default binding for that relation" phrasing because it overlaps with "a default binding for all endpoints of an application". I'll suggest it if I come up to something.
[16:21] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: "default for the relation" and "default for the application" only overlap in the "default" part.. default is a very common term that has an important meaning, and is hard to replace
[16:23] <Dmitrii-Sh> I agree, I'd be confused though because "default for the relation" is not documented in the Juju docs. I am not suggesting "default binding" is well documented in Juju either but at least it's mentioned :^)
[16:23] <Dmitrii-Sh> Either way, replacing a docstring is easier than replacing an API.
[16:24] <niemeyer> @Dmitrii-Sh Which is exactly why I outlined the three points in my comment in the PR
[16:24] <niemeyer> Full circle now.. we have bindings for a relation name, bindings for a relation instance that may return the bindings for that instance, and bindings for a relation instance that actually return the bindings assigned to the relation name
[16:24] <niemeyer> The third case is a fallback
[16:25] <niemeyer> An easy way to explain a fallback is with the "default" word
[16:47] <Facu> Ok, I can not use my system's autopep8 because it seem it's too old
[16:48] <Facu> I'll use a venv, with system-site-packages so I get PyYAML from the system, which is what we wanted to do
[16:49] <Facu> however, now all the test fails because (for example) files inside the env doesn't have a copyright header :p
[16:49] <Facu> (I also had to move my test charm out of this directory for the same reason)
[16:50] <Facu> Chipaca, any objection that we specify "ops" and "test" in the Makefile commands? otherwise it's too intrusive, not letting anybody have other stuff in the same dir while developing
[16:50] <Dmitrii-Sh> niemeyer: ok, I think we can settle on "default" for now
[16:51] <Dmitrii-Sh> thanks for guiding me through the thought process behind it
[16:51] <Chipaca> Facu: and setup.py i guess :-)
[16:51] <Chipaca> Facu: and … anything else?
[16:52] <Facu> Chipaca, setup.py already specify     packages=["ops"],
[16:52] <Chipaca> Facu: i mean the other way around
[16:53] <Chipaca> Facu: setup.py should be held to the same standard as the rest of the code
[16:53] <Facu> ah
[16:57] <Facu> would you mind to explain me the rationale of using *both* autopep8 and flake8?
[16:58] <Facu> if we're trying to have our code compliant to pep8, have a flake8 guardian should be enough
[16:58] <Chipaca> Facu: i'm not familiar enough with the details of those two to know what they cover
[16:58] <Chipaca> or how much overlap they have
[16:59] <niemeyer> I can explain..
[16:59] <niemeyer> Facu: We want to stick to flake8 as it's probably the most common tool use for this and it does a good job
[16:59] <niemeyer> Facu: We use autopep8 to automatically do that for us
[16:59] <Facu> yes, everybody uses it
[17:00] <niemeyer> Facu: The goal of using both is to ensure that we remain compatible with flake8, but we want to get the hints that autopep8 give us to tell how to fix it
[17:00] <niemeyer> *gives us
[17:00] <niemeyer> That's why autopep8 comes first as well
[17:00] <niemeyer> And that's why travis runs it with --diff
[17:01] <niemeyer> Instead of telling us "You guys suck", it says "You guys suck in those specific ways, and this is how you should not suck"
[17:02] <Facu> ack
[17:02] <Facu> would you mind if I run these two as part of the unit test infrastructure (together with the grep and find for copyright and backslashes)?
[17:03] <Facu> that would allow us to have a more simple indication on where everything must run, and get rid of the Makefile
[17:03]  * Facu would leave just a "test" script
[17:04] <niemeyer> We don't need to run both all the time.. I'd run just autopep8 which is the one that gives us more details
[17:04] <niemeyer> Keep flake8 in travis as a double check
[17:04] <Facu> I can do that
[17:04] <niemeyer> Running it in test seems fine, as long as it doesn't take a lot of time to run every time, and that there's a flag to not run it (sometimes you want to test code even if it's messy for the moment)
[17:06] <Facu> niemeyer, that's one beneffit of getting it as a unit test, you can have a total messy code, and you will only get one failing test (currently it just blocks the execution of the real tests)
[17:06] <niemeyer> I see what you mean, yeah, sounds good
[17:06] <Facu> also I'll try also flake8 locally, and see if it's slow or not
[19:36] <Facu> A mate, and then the final stretch
[19:36] <niemeyer> I'm envy
[21:12]  * Facu eods and eows!
[21:12] <Facu> see you all on Monday!
[21:12] <niemeyer> Have a good weekend!
[21:13] <Facu> niemeyer, same for you!


[01:09] <sparr> I need to build a kernel from https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm-tip/tree/ with all the same options and modules that my current kernel has (https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.0-rc2/). Is there a guide on how to do that?
[01:11] <sarnold> sparr: is the config in /boot/config-`uname -r` ?
[01:13] <sarnold> if so, copy that config to .config in your kernel tree, then make oldconfig
[04:45] <sparr> sarnold: when make prompts something with (NEW) that means the option didn't exist in the previous config?
[04:45] <sarnold> yeah
[04:47] <sparr> ok, after make oldconfig and answering the one new thing?
[04:50] <sarnold> build kernel as needed :)
[04:52] <sparr> how can I find the build dependencies for my kernel(s) when none of my installed kernel packages have source packages for doing apt-get build-dep on?
[04:53] <sarnold> the Documentation/Changes file lists the *programs* you need; that might not translate easily to *packages* to install, but it should be pretty close
[04:53] <sarnold> installing build-essential and then starting the build and fixing errors as they occur will probably get you pretty far
[04:55] <sparr> thanks, picking through dependencies like libssl now
[04:55] <sparr> drives me nuts when the name of a library doesn't match the name of the package (openssl vs libssl)
[04:56] <sarnold> heh, the number of times people have installed just an openssl pckage update and missed the libssl package -- which actually fixes the security bug..
[04:57] <sparr> I guess I should count myself lucky that I couldn't continue without the right onw
[06:03] <sparr> sarnold: if I started with source not from an ubuntu package so I don't have a debian/rules directory for fakeroot, what's the actual build step?
[06:04] <sparr> the guide I'm using wants me to do "fakeroot debian/rules binary-headers binary-generic binary-perarch" but debian/rules doesn't exist
[10:11] <doko> cpaelzer: qemu-system-arm/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: libvirglrenderer0 (>= 0.7.0)
[11:24] <cpaelzer> doko: that has a MIR https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virglrenderer/+bug/1657409
[11:25] <cpaelzer> doko: do you have time to do the override?
[11:25] <cpaelzer> I have updated the MIR bug to make clear that the upload triggering it now is intentional
[11:34] <doko> cpaelzer: done
[12:31] <doko> cpaelzer: libsys-virt-perl autopkg test failure
[13:02] <doko> oSoMoN: lo needs https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=635b38704594851648f359477b53f2224b9e6ee1  for openjdk 11.0.2
[13:08] <oSoMoN> doko, ack
[13:37] <cpaelzer> thanks doko
[13:38] <cpaelzer> I'll look into test errors as usual, but it most likely will be monday until I get more time to really work on it
[14:05] <oSoMoN> doko, LO 6.2.0 is due out next week, so I'll apply the patch there, I won't rebuild 6.1.4, unless really needed?
[14:28] <doko> oSoMoN: there are some autopkg test failures, but nothing blocking afaics
[14:36] <doko> rbasak: pacemaker would need a merge, there are some dep-waits in proposed
[14:38] <rbasak> doko: how do I find the dep-waits please?
[14:39] <doko> rbasak: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
[14:40] <rbasak> doko: pacemaker doesn't appear there though?
[14:40] <doko> no, but dlm
[14:41] <rbasak> Just dlm?
[14:41] <rbasak> We're looking into whether we want to merge pacemaker 2 this cycle, or if it's too close to feature freeze.
[14:42] <rbasak> So knowing what's impacted would be helpful.
[14:42] <LocutusOfBorg> mdeslaur, http://debomatic-amd64.debian.net/distribution#unstable/libcaca/0.99.beta19-2/buildlog can you please open a debian bug too? :)
[14:43] <LocutusOfBorg> we might go back in sync :)
[14:51] <mdeslaur> LocutusOfBorg: sure, debian bug 920442
[14:51] <mdeslaur> LocutusOfBorg: thanks
[15:58] <doko> RAOF, xnox: mir is now back again to happily ftbfs in the tests ... trying if the version in the release pocket still works ...
[16:06] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks mdeslaur :)
[16:15] <RAOF> doko: thanks for checking. I'll get on to it when I'm back at work on Tuesday.
[16:28] <doko> The following tests FAILED:
[16:28] <doko> 	372 - mir_umock_unit_tests.EvdevInputPlatform.* (Failed)
[16:28] <doko> 	376 - mir_umock_unit_tests.DeviceHandling/EvdevInputPlatform.* (Failed)
[16:29] <doko> RAOF: ^^^ I'll upload with ignoring the test results, so we have something in the archive which allows me to continue with the migration stuff. btw, these fail in 0.32.1 as well
[16:30] <RAOF> doko: oh! That's fixed in trunk.
[16:31] <RAOF> I guess we've now got the systemd version which exposes that bug.
[16:31] <LocutusOfBorg> so better upload a patch...
[16:32] <doko> RAOF: could you point me to that patch?
[16:32] <RAOF> Yup! The patch should apply without problems.
[16:32] <RAOF> Let me get out my laptop...
[16:32] <doko> and building with -DMIR_USE_PRECOMPILED_HEADERS=OFF for now ...
[16:37] <RAOF> doko: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/commit/c845095f291af00d94ea3918e41a59509bd29509
[16:48] <doko> RAOF: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/1.0.0-0ubuntu7
[16:49] <RAOF> Ta.
[16:49] <RAOF> Oh! Does this mean the yaml-cpp MIR has been resolved?
[16:56] <doko> no, not yet. so maybe I re-upload 0.32 this weekend. not sure
[17:00] <sparr> should https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel still be accurate?
[17:01] <sparr> I got to the fakeroot step and ended up with "/usr/bin/fakeroot: 175: /usr/bin/fakeroot: debian/rules: not found"
[17:01] <sparr> possibly because I'm fetching a mainline kernel source instead of from the release git
[17:19] <teward> rbasak: is the pcre2 thing needed before 19.04 release?  I.E. release-critcal for this cycle?
[17:21] <jbicha> teward: definitely no, there are many main things that will still be using pcre3 for 19.04 and probably 19.10 too
[17:22] <teward> jbicha: that's what I thought.
[17:22] <teward> just checking to make sure before I ask -release to demote nginx* back to Universe because currently upstream doesn't support pcre2 and doesn't seem to want to redo all the PCRE API stuff since it changes
[17:22] <teward> and I"m not familiar enough with either PCRE to do patches for thsoe changes :P
[17:23] <jbicha> it it were that easy to kill pcre3 in main, the pcre2 MIR would have been approved a long time ago
[17:31] <teward> indeed
[17:38] <sparr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel which also seems to be outdated. Is there a newer guide?
[17:58] <gQuigs> sparr: if you're doing mainline, another outdated guide might help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild
[17:59] <gQuigs> but I think it still works..
[18:00] <sparr> thanks, I'll try it
[18:00] <sparr> also trying to figure out how to apply https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.0-rc2/0001-base-packaging.patch
[18:03] <gQuigs> if it changes the packaging I wouldn't do it for Git build to work.. . if it's a normal patch just git apply...
[18:04] <sparr> your wiki page wants me to do git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-lucid.git which fails :(
[18:05] <sparr> lucid is old, no?
[18:05] <sparr> oh god, is this a full kernel source? that's a 4 hour clone
[18:07] <sparr> this is the fourth full copy of the kernel source I've had to download, three from git :(
[18:08] <rbasak> teward: no need to demote nginx yet. I was only talking before about some eventual future time when we're ready to demote pcre3. Only at that future time will we need to care about nginx not having support.
[18:08] <teward> rbasak: ack.
[18:08] <teward> that's why i inquired as to the criticality of it
[18:08] <teward> jbicha's note that there's a ton still using pcre3 makes sense :P
[18:08] <rbasak> Yeah
[18:08] <teward> i'm sure not all upstreams want to move off pcre3, too, because of different API and such
[18:08] <rbasak> Before the next LTS would be nice but I'm not sure if that'll happen.
[18:08] <teward> 20.04 you mean
[18:08] <rbasak> Yes
[18:09] <teward> by that point I can probably persuade NGINX to move on it, because the OSes they're still 'supporting' that don't have PCRE2 die in 2020 :P
[18:17] <sparr> gQuigs: stuck at `cp -a /usr/share/kernel-package ubuntu-package` because I don't have /usr/share/kernel-package
[18:18] <sparr> oh, sorry, I missed that that guide has a couple of extra packages to install
[18:26] <sparr> then actually failing on "cp ubuntu-cosmic/debian/control-scripts/{postinst,postrm,preinst,prerm} ubuntu-package/pkg/image/"
[18:26] <sparr> no such files
[18:40] <sarnold> sparr: ahh, sorry, I thought you wanted to just do the make -j ... bzImage modules install step to get your kernel..
[18:41] <sarnold> sparr: I haven't built my own kernel in ages but last time I did the kernel-package package's make-kpkg command was pretty useful. It's probably a lot faster than *properly* building a .deb package
[19:01] <sparr> I am worried about producing a kernel or package (including initrd and grub settings) that do not well match my current kernel
[19:02] <sparr> I am super annoyed at what seems to have become common practice, to distribute whole copies of the kernel source for small changes to one module :/
[19:03] <cjwatson> if you just add more remotes to an existing git clone then it shouldn't be anything like as much to download
[19:04] <TJ-> ^^^^ this - I have a mainline based repo with about 30 remotes, for the linux-next linux-stable and all ubuntu-XXXX releases etc.
[19:05] <sparr> that would require me to have a much more broad and deep knowledge of the package building process, because I wouldn't be able to follow any guides
[19:06] <sparr> not that the guides are super helpful, since even the most recent official-ish ones seem to be 3-5 years out of date
[19:06] <sparr> thank you for the idea, though
[19:08] <TJ-> sparr: what is it you're trying to build, is this for the i915 glitch?
[19:09] <sparr> yes, for the i915 glitch
[19:11] <sparr> trying to build https://cgit.freedesktop.org/drm-tip/ at commit d0757afd00d71dca98268d09884dc6248743d8ce
[19:13] <sparr> which I *think* I have just started compiling, after accidentally doing a full compile of 5.0-rc3
[19:17] <sparr> drm-tip on  d0757af $ CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=`getconf _NPROCESSORS_ONLN` fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version=-custom --overlay-dir=../ubuntu-package kernel_image kernel_headers
[19:19] <sparr> except that it's not visibly doing much and pstree reports "conf" has been running for a while now. fakeroot───make-kpkg───sh───make───sh───make───make───make───conf
[19:26] <TJ-> sparr: I generally use the kernel's own package-build targets (e.g. bindeb-pkg) - and I disable generating the debug-symbol packages to save time/space for non-gdb testing (in scripts/package/mkdebian, removing then code for $packagename-dbg  )
[19:28] <sparr> TJ-: more responses in #intel-gfx, hard to keep track of which channel you're asking in
[19:28] <sparr> I can continue or repeat here?
[19:28] <TJ-> sparr: hehe sorry, it is a bit difficult to decide which is more appropriate!
[19:31] <sparr> I am tempted to start over
[19:31] <sparr> I've downloaded and copied so many things so many places now that I've lost track
[19:31] <sparr> lost track to the point that I ran an entire successful kernel build... on the wrong directory
[19:31] <sparr> or to just give up
[19:32] <sparr> I only have to deal with this laptop for another few weeks, then I can switch to nvidia graphics and not look back
[19:32] <sparr> if someone thinks it's worth walking me through the process to get a good bug report to improve the intel drivers, I'm game, but it has passed the point where it's worth my time to keep trying alone for just my own benefit.
[19:36] <sparr> I currently have 3 kernel sources checked out, drm-tip, ubuntu-cosmic, and mainline v5.0-rc2
[19:40] <sparr> I actually managed to get v5.0-rc2 to build with some tweaks and skipped steps from these instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild
[19:43] <sparr> (oddly, it build rc3, which I don't remember checking out)
[19:54] <sparr> ok, after doing some magical incantations with the moon in a slightly different phase than before, I seem to have drm-tip building
[19:57] <sparr> now, back to #intel-gfx...
[22:19] <hggdh> ah crap, cannot edit it here
[22:22] <sladen> ?


[14:49] <jhobbs> do prerequisite branches work with git? I can't seem to make them work
[14:57] <dobey> jhobbs: i don't understand the uestion. you mean for merge proposals?
[15:00] <cjwatson> jhobbs: yes
[15:01] <jhobbs> yes
[15:01] <jhobbs> ok, i'll try some more, must be doing something wrong
[16:19] <knome> hey, could some admin look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/270038 ? cheers
[16:47] <mark06> help please, I need to clone this branch but can't http://vpaste.net/DWYwJ
[17:07] <dobey> mark06: you'll have to get the source package for that some other way
[17:07] <dobey> mark06: using pull-lp-source is generally the recommended way to get source packages
[21:19] <mark06> dobey: using http worked
[21:20] <dobey> mark06: not really. you got old data
[21:20] <mark06> I wanted to keep the application up-to-date but ubuntu packaging is annoying
[21:21] <mark06> dobey: huh?
[21:21] <dobey> the bzr branch for the packaging in ubuntu is out of date due to the issue you asked about
[21:21] <dobey> the imported bzr branches for ubuntu source packages have had lots of import issues; you should use pull-lp-source to get the actual source from the archive
[21:22] <mark06> I noticed that, I don't see 0ubuntu3.2 there, well it's all really annoying
[21:22] <dobey> life is annoying. get used to it :)
[21:22] <dobey> packaging stuff for ubuntu is not really that hard though
[21:24] <mark06> it is, period
[21:24] <mark06> but this is not the place to complain how much it sucks
[21:24] <dobey> no it is not
[21:24] <mark06> it is
[21:24] <mark06> see my branch
[21:25] <mark06> in arch it would be *one single file*, the PKGBUILD
[21:25] <mark06> arch packaging is way better
[21:25] <mark06> sorry for complaining
[21:26] <dobey> ...
[21:26] <mark06> my branch is outdated and I can't figure out a way to update it to both latest pidgin++ and the ubuntu patches
[21:27] <mark06> I wasted a few hours today so I guess I'll give up
[21:28] <mark06> best solution is maybe creating a real pidgin++ package instead of pidgin + pidgin++ patches + ubuntu patches
[21:32] <dobey> i have no idea why you are trying to create a fork-that-isnt-really-one of pidgin; but i can certainly say that such a choice does make otherwise simple tasks more difficult, and thus is the core of the complaints you constantly make in here
[21:32] <mark06> I'm talking about the packaging
[21:34] <mark06> technically my current pidgin++ package name is "pidgin" with patches (mine and ubuntu's)
[21:35] <mark06> I guess it should be an independent package named "pidgin++" but I'm super lazy to read http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html, specially after the hours I spent with this :(
[21:37] <mark06> I would also need to change my source code etc... so best solution for now is removing the ubuntu section from http://pidgin.renatosilva.me, unfortunately :(
[21:40] <dobey> and why don't you work with the upstream pidgin developers to just improve pidgin instead of forking it?
[21:41] <mark06> I tried in the beginning, see the bugs I fixed for discussions
[21:43] <mark06> they often spend more time in bug tracker than it would take to write the actual patches
[21:44] <dobey> yeah, no thanks. if you're too lazy to read packaging documentation and do things right, i'm certainly too lazy to perform an anthropological survey of your development activities in relation to upstreams
[21:44] <mark06> there's plenty of bugs like this they love to find reasons not to fix https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/15347
[21:45] <mark06> dobey: there's no research to do, the patches are freely available to anyone decide to like or not, they can merge them anytime too
[21:48] <mark06> well, sorry for the ranting  and thanks anyway


[13:35] <ogra_> https://minnessidor.fonus.se/memorial_page/memorial_page_personal_info.php?order_id=4263326&set_site_id=2&cat=home&sign=1786ffdc902fe7b9f357100c5fe35583#
[13:36] <ogra_> 😞
[13:37] <ogra_> quite a big loss for the ubuntu community as a whole ...
[13:37] <mdeslaur> :(
[14:27] <jbicha> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/in-memoriam-gunnar-hjalmarsson


[16:57] <bcurtiswx> maco, what is your preference for tomorrow?
[16:58] <maco> how bout 10am by Mama Lucia's?
[16:59] <maco> or 9 i guess. i spend the time between 7 and 10 hitting snooze anyway
[17:04] <bcurtiswx> haha, do 9?
[17:04] <bcurtiswx> so*
[17:06] <bcurtiswx> maco, 9 at mama lucias ?
[17:10] <maco> sure
[17:12] <bcurtiswx> maco, OK and thanks beforehand for the adapter
[17:13] <maco> oh right.
[17:13] <bcurtiswx> don't forget now ;)