[09:53] <mdz> sladen: we're using create_compressed_fs, which is actually advfs installed with a different name
[09:53] <fabbione> morning guys
[09:54] <fabbione> lamont: still around?
[09:54] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[09:54] <fabbione> hey mdz
[09:55] <jdub> hey, who sang that song, "it'll all be better if we slept together"?
[09:55] <fabbione> jdub: you are begging us to say you mom (part 2)
[09:55] <jdub> :-)
[09:55] <fabbione> sorry.. couldn't resist
[09:56] <mdz> the name of my new band is Jeff's Mum
[09:56] <mdz> perl: I HATE YOU
[09:56] <jdub> dude, you so want to *be* my mum
[09:57] <fabbione> who is the owner of this boglot?
[09:57] <fabbione> ~logbot@
[09:57] <fabbione> i don't mind it.. just curious
[09:59] <jdub> 19:58 < Greves> i may have to try this so-called "ubuntu"
[09:59] <jdub> we're lying, it's actually called "smillysloffilyploff"
[10:05] <fabbione> bah time to start sandpapering another room
[10:05] <fabbione> later fellas
[10:08] <Mithrandir> fabbione: have fun
[10:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: #5517, want to look?
[10:36] <thom> mornin
[10:37] <Keybuk> hey dude
[10:46] <mdz> Kamion: around?
[10:47] <mdz> after all my wrangling, it's starting to look like the initrd doesn't have the new cdebconf
[10:50] <mdz> $1 says I need to specify your magic flag to use the daily d-i build
[10:53] <mdz> ah, found it, DI_TYPE
[10:54] <amu> moin
[10:55] <mdz> LAMONT
[10:55] <mdz> http://king.warthogs.hbd.com/%7Ebuildd/livecd/livecd-current.cloop:
[10:55] <mdz> 09:53:50 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[10:57] <thom> mdz: there's a livecd.cloop which is a symlink to 20050115/livecd.cloop
[10:57] <mdz> thom: can you make it point to something which actually exists?
[10:58] <mdz> fuckit, i'll try swapping in a new initrd on my iso
[11:00] <thom> mdz: livecd-current.cloop should work now
[11:00] <thom> as should livecd.cloop
[11:02] <mdz> thanks
[11:09] <elmo> mdz: dude, tell me you're not still up?
[11:09] <mdz> oh, but I am
[11:09] <mdz> and I can almost taste it
[11:16] <elmo> do we use cfq by default in our kernels?
[11:17] <mdz> /boot/config-2.6.10-2-k7:CONFIG_IOSCHED_CFQ=y
[11:18] <elmo> yeah, but IIRC AS is the default
[11:19] <elmo> I'd check, but well, I don't have any non-custom kernels handy ;)
[11:19] <elmo> Using anticipatory io scheduler <-- from mine
[11:19] <mdz> ROCK ON
[11:19] <mdz> X autoconfiguration in the live CD
[11:20] <jdub> sweet!
[11:20] <thom> woot
[11:20] <Kamion> mdz: morning
[11:20] <mdz> Kamion: just in time
[11:20] <Kamion> mdz: did you tweak CONF.sh? I was reading the backlog thinking "shit, forgot to change that over so that he wouldn't have to know
[11:21] <Kamion> mdz: that main->universe symlink stuff was in order that warty CD builds remain possible
[11:21] <Kamion> if somebody trimmed the broken symlinks, they broke that again :)
[11:21] <thom> elmo: yeah, anticipatory is the default
[11:21] <elmo> Kamion: I think you'll have to only use --copy-links for pool
[11:21] <Kamion> elmo: ah, ok
[11:21] <jdub> mdz: how scary is the livecd image-building foo?
[11:21] <Kamion> I saw the anonftpsync change, will review/commit
[11:21] <elmo> Kamion: k, sorry for using your account like that
[11:22] <Kamion> not a problem
[11:22] <mdz> jdub: there's the d-i building bit, the live image building bit, and the CD image building bit
[11:22] <thom> elmo: and yeah, we probably ought to default to CFQ IMO
[11:22] <jdub> mdz: yeah, the live image
[11:22] <Kamion> how come it needed my account in particular? was there stuff non-group-writable?
[11:22] <Kamion> 'cos if so that's a bug I'd like to fix, so mdz can do this stuff
[11:22] <elmo> Kamion: I dunno, matt asked me to sort it, and I'm not in the group - i didn't want to use sudo in case I left broken permissions around
[11:23] <mdz> jdub: shouldn't be particularly scary, but then, no one has seen it except lamont ;-)
[11:23] <Kamion> ok, no problem, I was away and he needed to get stuff done
[11:23] <jdub> mdz: ... ah.
[11:24] <Kamion> mdz: I've set DI_TYPE to daily-installer, next daily build will use the new d-i build
[11:24] <mdz> Kamion: once casper 0.14 builds, a new set of CDs would be great
[11:24] <Kamion> mdz: I rsynced a full live CD last night, and tried to rsync a new one today; it is not rsyncing usefully
[11:25] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, lamont discovered this as well
[11:25] <mdz> it's worth some investigation to find out why; intuitively it seems like we should be winning
[11:26] <opi> morning
[11:26] <mdz> jdub: it was rad, I just booted up this hoary live CD straight into GNOME, and the desktop looks newer than the one on my workstation ;-)
[11:26] <mdz> fresh crack
[11:27] <jdub> mdz: SASS
[11:28] <mvo_> when I booted it and did a apt-get update, some seconds later update-notifier showed some updates :) funny
[11:28] <jdub> mvo_: last night, mine showed 156 updates ;)
[11:28] <jdub> COW is going to *love* that ;)
[11:29] <mvo_> hehe :)
[11:29] <Riddell> any ideas why my upload of kdelibs to warty-security hasn't built over night?
[11:29] <mdz> thom: I saw something strange with readahead
[11:29] <mdz> on powerpc and/or amd64, it was segfaulting
[11:30] <mdz> and on _shutdown_
[11:30] <mdz> no idea how
[11:32] <mdz> since it doesn't even seem to run at shutdown
[11:33] <Kamion> mdz: apt <IP_ADDRESS>'s fine for sarge, isn't it?
[11:33] <Kamion> er, </offtopic>
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, that was absolutely its intended target
[11:34] <jdub> mdz: readahead does the sort-readahead-file-by-disk-order on shutdown, doesn't it?
[11:34] <mdz> jdub: the 'stop' section in /etc/init.d/readahead is empty
[11:34] <mdz> and it doesn't have a link in rc/06] .d, either
[11:35] <mdz> so clearly I'm insane
[11:35] <mdz> maybe it segfaulted at boot
[11:35] <Kamion> mdz: the changelog message in <IP_ADDRESS> is not backed up by any actual diff to the source though
[11:35] <Kamion> I see the stuff in <IP_ADDRESS>, but I don't see the diff for this setlocale() stuff
[11:35] <mdz> really? hmm
[11:35] <mdz> the setlocale() stuff was icing
[11:35] <mdz> the <IP_ADDRESS> bits are what is needed for sarge
[11:35] <Kamion> the diff is like a single page, it's very clear
[11:35] <Kamion> ok
[11:35] <mdz> weird
[11:35] <Kamion> go arch!
[11:36] <mdz> a single page? the translation updates are missing as well?
[11:36] <Kamion> yes
[11:36] <mdz> wtf
[11:36] <thom> mdz: there's K76fileordering
[11:36] <Kamion> it has MaxArgs and MaxArgsBytes changes, configure/configure.in versioning, changelog, and nothing else
[11:36] <thom> which does the sort on shutdown
[11:37] <thom> it ought to move to the same init script
[11:37] <thom> but... :-)
[11:37] <Kamion> mdz: approved <IP_ADDRESS>, if you could leave a fix for these issues 'til after the next dinstall I'd appreciate it
[11:37] <thom> mdz: so both readahead *and* fileordering were segfaulting?
[11:39] <mdz> thom: just checked to confirm
[11:39] <mdz> K76fileordering segfaults
[11:39] <mdz> S39readahead does not
[11:39] <mdz> this was powerpc just now
[11:39] <thom> right, hrm
[11:40] <thom> my amd64 is still in a box, does it happen there too?
[11:40] <mdz> will check
[11:40] <thom> thanks
[11:42] <mdz> no problem on amd64
[11:44] <thom> right, it could be the funky inode code. could you possibly file a bug and i'll talk to daniel silverstone (since it's his code) on monday
[11:44] <mdz> Kamion: so, I think I'm going to crash, but a new set of CDs based on daily-installer and containing casper-udeb 0.14 would be great
[11:45] <mdz> thom: how much of the faster-boot experimentation ended up making it into hoary?
[11:45] <thom> we don't have caching of /dev nor the faster gdm artwork yet
[11:46] <thom> most everything bar that should be in
[11:46] <elmo> gdm's artwork is slow?
[11:46] <Kamion> mdz: ok, will build in twenty minutes or so when casper 0.14 shows up
[11:46] <thom> elmo: resizing it is, yes
[11:46] <mdz> I'll queue an rsync for +1 hour or so
[11:46] <elmo> boggle
[11:47] <thom> elmo: (it's a png, not svg, so gdm has to do some hard work)
[11:47] <Kamion> mdz: ok
[11:48] <mdz> thom: I've added an entry to the HoaryGoals page for it; please create a wiki page to record which bits went in, and also the future stuff that we could do
[11:48] <mdz> so we can brag about it in the release notes, etc.
[11:49] <jdub> elmo: seems gdk-pixbuf is crap at scaling images
[11:49] <thom> mdz: sure
[11:49] <jdub> thom: turns out an svg version of current gdm glow is 'hard'
[11:49] <Kamion> elmo: could you update germinate on jackass? I added support for per-arch seed entries, would like to start using them soonish
[11:49] <jdub> thom: it's not just one gradient ;)
[11:49] <thom> jdub: ah.
[11:49] <jdub> thom: so we'll probably have something new and special
[11:50] <mdz> thanks
[11:50] <mdz> night all
[11:50] <thom> so we're racing to gdm, and then sitting around and twiddling our thumbs for an image to load :-)
[11:50] <jdub> not elmo special, proper special
[11:50] <mvo_> night mdz
[11:50] <thom> night dude
[11:52] <jdub>    * Enable X autoconfiguration(!)
[11:52] <jdub> :-)
[11:54] <amu> n8 mdz
[11:55] <Kamion> elmo: will anastacia (or whichever one it is) be able to deal with germinate giving different answers for main-ness/universe-ness on different architectures?
[11:55] <Kamion> (doesn't really matter if it can't and I guess overrides probably don't get to be per-arch like that, would just be interesting)
[11:57] <jdub> elmo: ping
[12:01] <daniels> mdz: g'night
[12:02] <Kamion> also, either elilo needs to be removed from i386 or efibootmgr needs to be built on i386, one or the other
[12:03] <Kamion> I think probably the latter given that elilo explicitly claims that it's useful on some i386 systems
[12:04] <Kamion> hm, do Intel x86_64 systems use EFI?
[12:04] <Kamion> and/or elilo ...
[12:08] <elmo> Kamion: nope, it almagates all the architectures, so if you're in main for one, you're in for all
[12:08] <Kamion> fair enough
[12:09] <sladen> Kamion: I don't believe so---remember those machines are still coming up as 16-bit 286's
[12:09] <Kamion> still, it will help out (a) CD images and (b) debootstrap, and you'll need to understand the new syntax
[12:09] <elmo> btw, the gdm image stuff couldn't you just resize permanently?  most people don't change res often?  combined with a mini-rainbow of common sizes being generated by cron after install or something?
[12:09] <Kamion> sladen: so are i386en and apparently they can use EFI
[12:09] <elmo> Kamion: ok, will do when I get to the DC..
[12:10] <Kamion> sladen: it's a matter of boot firmware rather than 64-bitness AIUI
[12:10] <elmo> Kamion: I don't think they do use EFI no
[12:10] <elmo> HP DL3x0's G4's are em64_t, but AFAIK they have a normal bios, I'll ask taggart
[12:10] <Kamion> hm, ok
[12:10] <azeem> is there an eaysy way to get laptop-mode not to mount partitions with noatime?
[12:11] <azeem> eh, in warty
[12:11] <Kamion> http://adare.warthogs.hbd.com/%7Ebuildd/livecd/livecd-current.cloop:
[12:11] <Kamion> 11:11:01 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[12:11] <Kamion> can someone fix that?
[12:11] <Kamion> amd64 and i386 were fine
[12:11] <elmo> how would it be fixed?
[12:12] <Kamion> livecd-current.cloop-1024:65536 exists ...
[12:12] <thom> Kamion: doing so now
[12:12] <elmo> azeem: you actually have a use for atime?  on a laptop?
[12:12] <elmo> thom: by manually adding the CD ?
[12:12] <elmo> err, link?
[12:12] <azeem> elmo: it breaks mutt
[12:12] <elmo> if so, please be sure to tell lamont so he can actually fix it
[12:12] <elmo> azeem: boggle
[12:12] <thom> elmo: yes
[12:12] <thom> and yes
[12:13] <Kamion> I think the -4096:4096 build failed and that was what was supposed to be linked to the plain name
[12:13] <thom> Kamion: done
[12:13] <Kamion> judging from terranova
[12:13] <Kamion> thom: thanks
[12:13] <thom> same happened on amd64, fwiw
[12:15] <bob2> azeem: how does it break mutt?
[12:16] <azeem> bob2: mutt sometimes thinks there's new mail in mailboxes all the time
[12:16] <azeem> aha
[12:16] <azeem> "If you use mutt and experience this, you must disable the noatime remounting in the control script by setting DO_REMOUNT_NOATIME=0."
[12:17] <azeem> control script == /usr/sbin/laptop-mode
[12:17] <azeem> took me a while to figure that out :)
[12:18] <thom> it sources /etc/default/laptop-mode, no?
[12:19] <Kamion> mdz: new live CD up, seems sane
[12:20] <sladen> thom: I think the laptop-mode in Hoary/Debian is out of date;  there's new ones I've seen that have about 20 options in the config file
[12:20] <thom> sladen: quite likely
[12:20] <azeem> there are options in the Debian one, yes
[12:21] <sladen> Kamion: just Googling, I've found one press release mentioning plans to produce an amd64/efi system
[12:21] <azeem> thom: yeah, that works as well, thanks
[12:21] <thom> np
[12:22] <sladen> Kamion: but I suspect you can ignore it until that actually happens
[12:33] <doko> kamion: can we close #1232?
[12:49] <Kamion> doko: just looking at the last couple of entries
[12:55] <jdub> sladen: "coloured prompt!"
[12:55] <jdub> sladen: "no, what do you want from the boot process?"
[12:55] <jdub> sladen: "optimised packages!"
[12:56] <sladen> jdub: "use flags!"
[12:56] <Kamion> do users want a boot process that can be inserted nasally?
[12:56] <jdub> right into the main vein
[12:58] <sladen> we need a focus group.  This is like extracting water from a stone
[12:59] <jdub> Kamion: have you done mini.iso installs?
[01:01] <Kamion> jdub: which mini.iso?
[01:02] <jdub> Kamion: warty's
[01:02] <Kamion> jdub: no, *which* mini.iso? netboot, monolithic, ...?
[01:03] <Kamion> mini.iso is just a way of putting the bits together, it doesn't specify which bits
[01:03] <Kamion> people have done netboot installs, I haven't done one with final warty and I know there were a couple of bugs
[01:04] <Kamion> I did a hoary netboot install yesterday, was basically ok
[01:05] <jdub> Kamion: oh, netboot i guess, couldn't see any others
[01:06] <Kamion> probably depends on the arch
[01:06] <jdub> yeah, some dude did a warty install and it was incomplete
[01:06] <jdub> i386
[01:06] <Kamion> hm, how so?
[01:06] <Kamion> I can give it a try later ...
[01:06] <jdub> didn't have ubuntu-desktop
[01:06] <jdub> and a bunch of other stuff
[01:06] <Kamion> boggle
[01:06] <Kamion> that's a function of the archive not the boot method
[01:06] <jdub> he may have done something wacky
[01:07] <Kamion> was he trying to use the CD as a "mirror"?
[01:07] <jdub> no
[01:07] <jdub> full net install
[01:07] <Kamion> ok
[01:07] <jdub> it was greves on #ubuntu if you want to ask for more details
[01:07] <Kamion> I'll check it out next opportunity, then
[01:07] <Kamion> I have to go in twenty minutes unfortunately, maybe later
[01:07] <Kamion> thanks for passing that on
[01:09] <sladen> one thing that was strange with the net-install is that it only offered 'Great Britain' as a mirror option.  Eventually figured that was because that's where the Canonical machines are.  Is it worth adding an automatic skip in the case of only one choice?
[01:15] <Kamion> sladen: theoretically, but I'd rather add more mirrors
[01:21] <two-face> Hi.
[01:22] <jdub> elmo, lamont: ping
[01:22] <jdub> oh, hi elmo
[01:22] <elmo> ?
[01:22] <jdub> elmo: so Riddell did a warty-security upload - do you still have to confirm it?
[01:23] <jdub> elmo: are security build logs ever published?
[01:23] <elmo> jdub: warty-security is setup to require confirmation from the security team yes
[01:23] <elmo> and no
[01:23] <jdub> cool, ta
[01:23] <elmo> (security team meaning pitti)
[01:23] <jdub> oh right
[01:23] <elmo> kdelibs got built fine, it's just sitting in queue/accepted
[01:24] <jdub> great
[01:24] <jdub> just answering Riddell's mail on u-d
[01:24] <Riddell> elmo: why are the logs not published?
[01:24] <elmo> I've no idea how we want to handle warty-security, i.e. whether or not we require confirmation
[01:24] <elmo> Riddell: because security uploads are often embargoed
[01:24] <jdub> heh
[01:24] <Riddell> what does embargoed mean?
[01:24] <elmo> err, handle warty-security +"for universe"
[01:24] <jdub> Riddell: answering your mail atm, with that precise phrase in it :)
[01:25] <elmo> Riddell: not to be released until a certain agreed date
[01:27] <Riddell> elmo: ah, that makes sense
[01:28] <Riddell> hmm, if I'm an approved ubuntu person does that mean I get on planet.ubuntu :)
[01:30] <jdub> Riddell: planet ubuntu will actually be for members soon, not just developers :)
[01:39] <Riddell> is the website team aware of just how heavily ubuntulinux.org uses text-shadow?  it gets quite annoying after a bit
[01:39] <jdub> Riddell: whereabouts?
[01:41] <elmo> Kamion: so, what's going to change when I update  germinate?
[01:42] <Kamion> elmo: with the current seeds, nothing
[01:42] <Kamion> elmo: well, depends what your current version is I guess ;)
[01:43] <Kamion> elmo: once seeds get updated, there'll be stuff like "elilo [ia64] ", so elilo will only be considered part of the base seed if you're germinating for ia64
[01:44] <Kamion> it won't be actively excluded on other architectures though - i.e. if something on i386 depends on elilo it'll still be included
[01:44] <Kamion> just not seeded
[01:44] <elmo> ok, so that won't matter to me
[01:44] <elmo> hmm, which doesn't really help does it?
[01:45] <Kamion> elmo: it helps with the CD images and my auto-debootstrap-updater - the only reason I want you to update is that the syntax for arch-specific seeds would be invalid in old germinate, I think
[01:45] <elmo> presumably the point of that was to not pull things in that can't be dep-satisfied?
[01:45] <elmo> ok
[01:45] <Kamion> no, the point is not to have to pull stuff into base on one arch just because it's base in another
[01:45] <Kamion> or similar
[01:45] <Kamion> it doesn't matter for main/universe-ness, it matters for which bit of main/universe it's in
[01:46] <Kamion> which bit of main, I mean
[01:46] <elmo> ok
[01:46] <Riddell> jdub: all the headers http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ubuntu-text-shadow.png  it would be fine if it was toned down a bit
[01:46] <elmo> I thought it might be trying to address oo.o on ia64 for example
[01:46] <Kamion> up to now I've had a system of overrides in debootstrap to cope, but that's a bit informal and really ought to die
[01:47] <elmo> ok, I'm up to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:47] <Kamion> elmo: lamont mentioned that, but I'm not convinced that'll work; otoh we might be able to take it out of desktop on ia64, I think, which might help
[01:47] <Kamion> it'll still be a build failure then but wouldn't block livefs builds
[01:47] <Kamion> elmo: that's currnt
[01:47] <Kamion> +e
[01:48] <elmo> kamion: it won't work
[01:48] <elmo> the archive can't do per-arch components for a given binary package
[01:48] <elmo> hmm, anasatacia got very upset
[01:49] <Kamion> elmo: like I say, I don't care whether it's still in main or not
[01:49] <jdub> Riddell: holy crap
[01:49] <elmo> Kamion: yes, but to solve oo.o, you'd have to
[01:49] <Kamion> elmo: if it's still in main that's fine, but we could make ubuntu-desktop stop depending on it
[01:49] <jdub> Riddell: i guess gecko doesn't implement that
[01:50] <elmo> well sure, but we'd still have uninstallable packages in main, which sucks
[01:50] <Kamion> elmo: don't see why? if it's not depended-upon it won't be included
[01:50] <jdub> Riddell: that looks completely crap - can you file a bug?
[01:50] <Kamion> oh, yeah, it's not a full solution, but it would stop being a live-CD blocker
[01:50] <elmo> sure
[01:50] <Kamion> what broke anastacia?
[01:50] <elmo> anyway, this doesn't seem to have worked too well, linux-source is getting no love for !i386.. checking
[01:50] <Kamion> huh, odd
[01:51] <fabbione> uh?
[01:51] <Kamion> the last change really ought to be a no-op with current seeds
[01:51] <elmo> kamion: I was quite out of date
[01:52] <elmo> I jumped 15 odd patches
[01:53] <Kamion> hm, the multi-component/multi-dist stuff would be the prime candidate for something going wrong
[01:53] <Kamion> it was all fine for me on cdimage though
[01:54] <Kamion> elmo: anyway unfortunately I really have to go, late already; if it's a blocker feel free to revert and I'll sort it out later
[01:54] <elmo> do you care if Desktop goes screwy?
[01:54] <elmo> other than it's not a blocker
[01:55] <Kamion> yeah, kinda
[01:55] <Kamion> cdimage cares anyway
[01:55] <Kamion> if you could mail me the germinate invocation you're using that would be goodd
[01:55] <elmo> cares before you get back? :)
[01:55] <Kamion> mmm, probably not
[01:56] <Kamion> I'll be away most of the afternoon/early-evening though
[01:56] <elmo> ok then, i'll leave it, i'm not even sure how I'd revert.. I'll poke at it and mail you details including how to reproduce
[01:56] <Kamion> baz update <whatever-revision-you-were-last-at>
[01:56] <elmo> yeah the problem is the last part
[01:56] <Kamion> oh, don't have the output from the update around any more?
[01:57] <elmo> oh, yeah I do, blah.. too tired
[01:57] <elmo> or rather, I have a backup copy of the entire dir, I'll revert to that for now
[01:57] <Kamion> anyhow ... gone
[02:15] <Riddell> jdub: what is the difference between a developer and a maintainer?
[02:15] <jdub> Riddell: developer covers committers, maintainers, etc.
[02:15] <jdub> Riddell: so it's just a more general term
[02:15] <Riddell> jdub: you said planet would be for "maintainers not just developers"
[02:16] <jdub> Riddell: members not just developers
[02:17] <Riddell> jdub: so who's allowed on the planet at the moment (not because I want on it, I'm trying to understand the terminology)
[02:18] <jdub> Riddell: atm, it's an unupdatable blob ;)
[02:18] <jdub> Riddell: i'm fixing things up atm, so that when it will be maintained from an arch branch
[02:18] <jdub> at which point, it will be for any member
[02:19] <Riddell> ok, richt
[02:19] <jdub> i'll put your blog on straight away :)
[02:19] <jdub> do you have an ubuntu or tech category?
[02:20] <jdub> elmo: btw, could you send the index.html.tmpl from the planet install? i didn't realise you just sent the config last time :-)
[02:20] <sladen> jdub: you need to put a flowchart diagram up that goes   member -> committer -> maintainer   or something
[02:20] <jdub> yeah
[02:20] <Riddell> jdub: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/blog/feed/57
[02:21] <jdub> hrm
[02:21] <elmo> jdub: I thought I tarred up config-ubuntu for oyu.. but ok
[02:21] <jdub> drupal does such poo rss ;)
[02:21] <jdub> at least it has dates now
[02:21] <jdub> elmo: hrm, wait a sec
[02:22] <jdub> i'll check personal mail
[02:22] <jdub> nup
[02:22] <elmo> jdub: sent
[02:22] <jdub> thanks
[02:22] <jdub> now to deplone it
[02:24] <elmo> doko: I just passed you a pyopengl b-d bug
[02:24] <elmo> doko: do  you know off hand whath appened to python2.3-dictdlib?  dict-moby-thesaurus still b-d's on it
[02:25] <doko> python2.3-dictdlib is nowpython2.4-dictdlib, will update dict-moby-thesaurus
[02:25] <elmo> doko: ah, well it must have FTBFS
[02:26] <elmo> 'cos python2.4-dictdlib doesn't exist yet in the archive :)
[02:26] <elmo> could you chase that down too?
[02:26] <doko> pyopengl b-d, I should pass that on to daniels, see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=xvfb
[02:27] <doko> elmo: ok, btw, what any news about the powerpc64 chroot on davis?
[02:28] <Riddell> jdub: should I turn up at at the next technical board meeting and ask to be made a maintainer so I can work on kde packages in main (and does haggai need to do the same)?
[02:28] <elmo> doko: err, what would I build it with?  I thought you were just asking if I would do it, not for me to do it
[02:28] <jdub> Riddell: haggai has been approved already
[02:28] <elmo> doko: can you make the pyopengl bug say 'blocks on <n>' (whatever <n> is for our BTS)
[02:28] <doko> elmo: will do
[02:28] <jdub> Riddell: you should put your name on the maintainer proposals page, and CC and TB agenda
[02:29] <elmo> doko: [ppc64]  will a powerpc chroot do to start with?
[02:29] <Riddell> jdub: ok. why the CC agenda?
[02:29] <doko> elmo: chroot: yes, then install the things I wrote you in an email.
[02:29] <elmo> Riddell: CC and TB approve maintainers
[02:29] <elmo> doko: I don't seem to be getting email from you
[02:30] <elmo> doko: where/when/to-who did you send it, and what's the message  ID?
[02:30] <jdub> Riddell: gotta get the love from everyone ;)
[02:31] <Riddell> elmo, jdub: so CC approves members, TB approves committers and both CC and TB approve maintainers?
[02:31] <Riddell> sladen: the flow is fairly obvious, it's the details that arn't clear
[02:32] <ogra> Riddell, wasnt there a propsal from mark that you get both stati in one step to speed up the MOTU process
[02:32] <ogra> Riddell, thats how i understood it at least
[02:32] <jdub> Riddell: the bar for being a universe maintainer is quite a bit lower than for being a main maintainer
[02:32] <doko> elmo: sent again. you did get my email about the mailman sync from unstable?
[02:33] <jdub> Riddell: haggai was approved quickly because he's an experienced debian maintainer, and has a saucy and convincing british accent
[02:33] <ogra> hehe
[02:35] <jdub> ogra: do you have a blog?
[02:35] <ogra> yup
[02:35] <jdub> ogra: with an ubuntu or tech category in it?
[02:35] <ogra> nope, do i need one ?
[02:35] <jdub> not necessarily
[02:35] <jdub> your call which you'd prefer
[02:36] <jdub> would you like to be aggregated on planet.ubuntu?
[02:36] <jdub> if so, rss url please :)
[02:36] <ogra> since all i blog will mostly be ubuntu related i dont think i need a category: http://www.grawert.net/weblog.cgi/index.rss
[02:36] <ogra> :)
[02:37] <jdub> cool
[02:37] <ogra> thanks
[02:38] <ogra> jdub: btw, remember our graveman discussion about setting the g-v-m burner key in postinst.... ?
[02:39] <jdub> yeah
[02:39] <jdub> the one where i cried and begged you not to? ;)
[02:39] <ogra> jdub: if i leave nautilus in there, but want to burn with graveman, how do i avoid nautilus from popping up if a cd is inserted ?
[02:40] <jdub> ogra: you can't, the best thing is to change the setting
[02:40] <ogra> except by setting/unsetting the key dynamically if the app is started
[02:40] <jdub> ogra: in future, g-v-m will have a list box of choices instead of command lines
[02:40] <ogra> yup, thats what i thought...
[02:40] <ogra> ah, thats nicer :)
[02:41] <jdub> in which case you'll be able to provide a choice for it in the package, and the user can choose it
[02:41] <jdub> elmo: haven't got your mail yet...
[02:45] <elmo> oh GAR
[02:46] <elmo> jdub: really sent - sorry, sending mail to canonical.com from within the DC, is, err interesting
[02:46] <jdub> heh
[03:10] <fabbione> hey seb128
[03:15] <sivang> hi seb128_
[03:15] <seb128_> hello
[03:16] <fabbione> hmmmmmm
[03:16] <fabbione> we have an ioctl problem with the new emu10k1 driver
[03:17] <fabbione> now.. how many applications do we need to update?
[03:17] <fabbione> all the mixers segfaults doing some very specific operations
[03:20] <fabbione> cool
[03:20] <fabbione> now i have the THX tuned again!
[03:20] <elmo> fabbione: hmm - I thought you added the pb sleep patch?
[03:20] <fabbione> pb?
[03:21] <fabbione> powerbook?
[03:21] <elmo> yeah
[03:21] <fabbione> it's no go on 2.6.10
[03:21] <fabbione> i am waiting for benh to port it
[03:21] <fabbione> and i will add it
[03:21] <elmo> oh, meh, ok
[03:21] <fabbione> i did try to merge it myself but it was no go
[03:21] <elmo> it's in the source package which confused me
[03:21] <elmo> the source source package, I mean
[03:21] <fabbione> too many bits have been merged upstream and others need to be reviewed
[03:21] <fabbione> yeah my fault
[03:22] <fabbione> i forgot to take it away
[03:22] <fabbione> but it's not applied
[03:22] <elmo> yeah, ok, no prob
[03:22] <fabbione> it works on 2.6.9
[03:22] <elmo> yep, using it on there now.. I'll go back to that +security patches
[03:23] <fabbione> elmo: if it is only for your laptop and it is not multiuser, you only need the igmp patch
[03:23] <fabbione> that was the only remote DoS
[03:23] <fabbione> otherwise skip the others
[03:23] <fabbione> i doubt you give accounts to people on your laptop
[03:24] <fabbione> iirc that one made it in 2.6.9 before we switched to 2.6.10
[03:27] <fabbione> note for my self: stop playing around servers powerswitched when passing new cables
[03:27] <fabbione> (machines can casually turn off)
[03:29] <JakubS> :-)
[03:31] <JakubS> jdub: i'm the guy who filed debian bug against mdnsresponder's license
[03:31] <JakubS> why you install copy of BSD instead of APSL-2 ?
[03:31] <lamont> Kamion: you around?
[03:32] <JakubS> into /usr/share/doc/mdnresponder/copyright?
[03:32] <jdub> JakubS: it's a bug
[03:32] <jdub> JakubS: just needs to be clarified
[03:32] <jdub> JakubS: the library interface is BSD (thus the confusion)
[03:32] <JakubS> ah ok, i just wanted your comment on that
[03:33] <JakubS> library sure is but daemon not
[03:33] <jdub> that's right
[03:33] <jdub> i'm aware of the problem :)
[03:36] <lamont> fabbione: so is -8 still the current one, I wonder?
[03:36] <fabbione> lamont: he left sometime ago
[03:36] <fabbione> lamont: yes :-)
[03:37] <fabbione> i am not working today
[03:37] <lamont> woot!  I finally have the current kernel source in  my mirror!!! :-)
[03:37] <fabbione> i need to unmelt my brain
[03:37] <fabbione> AHAH
[03:37] <crimsun> ogra: if you'd like and have the time, please consider triggering a simple rebuild of 'nicotine' against python2.4 (all that's needed is a recompile).
[03:37] <lamont> fabbione: you;re the one who wants me to work on it...
[03:38] <jdub> riowr!
[03:38] <fabbione> lamont: i would like to get the kernel at "state of the art" on 6 arches :-)
[03:38] <fabbione> lamont: that would be an achievement
[03:38] <Riddell> haggai: awa wi ye sassenach
[03:38] <lamont> I will work on it this weekend.  which happens to include mondyua
[03:39] <lamont> which is fortunate, since today is 'fix the frozen pipes and figure out what else got ruined' day
[03:42] <lamont> thom?
[03:56] <doko> fabbione: lrm again. adding the avm isdn modules including the firmware will increase the size of each l-r-m binary on ix86 by a factor of 4, ending up at 6mb. upload it as is, or split it in it's own binaries lrm-avm-2.6.xx ?
[04:01] <Treenaks> ogra: not dput?
[04:01] <ogra> Treenaks: are there advantages ?
[04:02] <Treenaks> ogra: it's a shorter name ;)
[04:02] <ogra> heh
[04:02] <ogra> ok
[04:02] <lamont> Setting up fontconfig (2.2.3-2ubuntu1) ...
[04:02] <lamont> /usr/sbin/laptop-detect: line 14: dmidecode: command not found
[04:02] <lamont> grumble
[04:02] <Treenaks> yay for non-x86!
[04:02] <Treenaks> (I guess)_
[04:02] <lamont> yeah
[04:04] <fabbione> doko: dude.. until everything is in the same source it's ok
[04:05] <fabbione> doko: it doesn't really matter how many binaries will spit out, but again you need to discuss this with mdz since he expect max 2 sources with kernel stuff.. kernel and lrm
[04:06] <Treenaks> grrgghgggrrrrrrh...
[04:06] <Treenaks> fabbione: (not your uber-patched 2.6.10)
[04:08] <fabbione> ARGH!
[04:08] <fabbione> xine-libs are borked!
[04:10] <doko> fabbione: he delegated the decision to you/us :)
[04:11] <doko> doko: so I propose to put it in the same module until somebody cries about the size.
[04:12] <fabbione> doko: so go ahead and decide.. for me any solution is the same
[04:13] <doko> fabbione: ok
[04:18] <ogra> crimsun: uploaded... lets see if i did it right ;)
[04:18] <crimsun> ogra: many thanks
[04:18] <ogra> thanks for pointing me at it ;)
[04:19] <crimsun> np :)
[04:20] <robertj> has anyone in here running hoary done a dist-upgrade to find that only 640x480 & 800x600 were still working on their i810 hardware?
[04:20] <robertj> and also, that there was no menu text on the panels or right-click menus?
[04:24] <robertj> It's been noted a few times on the forums
[04:27] <sladen> robertj: 1024x768 still works.  but I've seen the  no-panels  bug many times
[04:27] <sladen> robertj: it's a race that needs tracking down.  Workaround:    pkill -u $USER
[04:27] <sladen> and log back in
[04:28] <robertj> sladen: there are napenls
[04:28] <robertj> they are void of text
[04:28] <robertj> I've got the gnome foot and the sound icon up top but no menu text
[04:28] <robertj> at the bottom I have lal my launcher icons and stuff, but no text on the task list
[04:28] <sladen> is this funny-crashed-xserver type thing
[04:28] <robertj> if I click the foot I get all the images in a little micro-menu with no text, is that what you have seen?
[04:29] <sladen> nope.  not seen that one.  As though all the text is suddenly zero-width?
[04:30] <robertj> and once it was just very very tiny
[04:30] <robertj> like a little line going across the screen, with several pages taking up only a few hundred pixels
[04:34] <robertj> sladen: getting Bad V_BIOS checksum
[04:34] <robertj> should that worry me?
[04:34] <trukulo> Mithrandir, r u there?
[04:36] <fabbione> daniels: ping
[04:37] <trukulo> fabbione, have you seen your video?
[04:37] <fabbione> trukulo: no. i was waiting to know if it was all up
[04:38] <trukulo> small one is all up
[04:38] <trukulo> well, small ones, i mean
[04:38] <fabbione> nah i was waiting for the big one
[04:39] <trukulo> ok
[04:39] <ogra> why is gnome-btdownload still excluded from universe ?
[04:40] <trukulo> ogra, i have package for 20050112 graveman
[04:40] <trukulo> if you want sources..
[04:40] <ogra> oh, there is a new upstream ?
[04:40] <trukulo> more than one
[04:40] <trukulo> 3 i think
[04:40] <trukulo> with new dependencies
[04:41] <trukulo> build time too
[04:41] <trukulo> http://mercurio.homeip.net/debian/
[04:41] <trukulo> there you have mine , if you want to look at it
[04:42] <fabbione> i wonder why you two don't share a common arch repo
[04:42] <fabbione> and create an ubuntu and a debian branch
[04:42] <fabbione> keeping the common stuff
[04:42] <fabbione> in "common"
[04:42] <trukulo> because i'm very bad doing this
[04:43] <trukulo> i don't understand well things related to package development, yet
[04:43] <ogra> fabbione:  because i dont want to _develop_ graveman.... if there will be a debian package it will go into universe anyway....
[04:44] <ogra> and it seems trukulo plans to get his included into sid if i understood it correctly....
[04:44] <fabbione> ok
[04:44] <fabbione> but i would still share the efford with a simple RCS
[04:45] <fabbione> and you would both benefits in learning :-)
[04:45] <trukulo> ogra, i want to, i have to speak with a friend that is debian delevoper
[04:45] <ogra> fabbione: i'm setting up bazaar anyway....
[04:45] <trukulo> perhaps he can be my "bitch-uploader"
[04:45] <fabbione> ogra: baz is fine :-)
[04:45] <fabbione> baz is based on the arch protocol
[04:46] <ogra> trukulo: nah, come on.....get a dev yourself....you are already on your way....
[04:46] <ogra> fabbione: i know ;) i had a lot of cigarettes with jblack in mataro ....
[04:47] <trukulo> ogra, time problem here :)
[04:47] <ogra> trukulo: universe urgently needs new maintainers ....
[04:47] <sivang> ogra: the reason for using those is that they are cheaper right? ;-)
[04:47] <trukulo> i have my own enterprise, and not very much time
[04:48] <ogra> sivang: those ?
[04:48] <trukulo> so being a developer it's not on my plains
[04:48] <trulux> woo
[04:48] <trulux> mdz: ping
[04:50] <sivang> ogra: woops, I though jblack was the cigarettes's filling.
[04:50] <ogra> heh
[04:50] <ogra> sivang: lol, jblack is james blackwell from the arch team ;)
[04:51] <sivang> ogra: hhm, I hope he doesn't read this somehwere :)
[04:52] <trukulo> Mithrandir, you awake? tell what video to upload next
[04:53] <jdub> trukulo: i listened to the video of me yesterday - obviously i need help with spanish humour, badopi dudes were not laughing loud enough :-)
[04:55] <trukulo> lol
[04:55] <trukulo> if you want to take classes, tell me
[04:55] <trukulo> you know what happens?
[04:55] <trukulo> they don't understand very well english
[04:55] <trukulo> so they need to do a lot of work listening, and that is no good for humor
[04:56] <jdub> yeah
[04:56] <trukulo> anyway, yes, you need to improve your humor
[04:56] <trukulo> heheheh
[04:56] <jdub> i hope they watch the video again and realise how FUNNY it was :-)
[04:57] <trukulo> you need to be very ugly to be funny
[04:57] <trukulo> as mako
[04:57] <trukulo> xD
[04:57] <jdub> heh
[04:57] <fabbione> jdub: what time is it in .au?
[04:57] <fabbione> or better.. where daniels lives
[04:58] <jdub> 0300
[04:58] <fabbione> jdub: isn't time to wake him up and tell him that xine-lib is borked?
[05:01] <fabbione> daf: nevermind... i always forget that i tend to put all the logs > /dev/null on my sensible systems
[05:01] <fabbione> ops
[05:01] <fabbione> ECHAN
[05:23] <elmo> okay, the buildds are going down for a while - shout now if this is particularly inconvenient for you
[05:23] <elmo> (while ==> hours)
[05:25] <fabbione> go for me
[05:26] <sladen> robertj: mention  Bad V_BIOS  to daniels (I'd assume vesa-bios or something without lookingit up
[05:27] <robertj> sladen: using a custom xorg.conf got me going again
[05:27] <robertj> menus still lack text though
[05:28] <robertj> maybe somewhere pango is barfing?
[05:28] <sladen> robertj: what did you have to change in the xorg.conf?
[05:28] <Riddell> I'm getting a "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXinerama" compile error because there is a libXinerama.so.1 but no libXinerama.so  Any ideas how to get round that?
[05:28] <robertj> sladen: not sure, I just created a real basic xorg.conf and got it going
[05:29] <crimsun> Riddell: is libxinerama-dev installed?
[05:30] <fabbione> Riddell: as crimsun sais...
[05:30] <Riddell> crimsun: you are a genius
[05:30] <crimsun> nah, I've just been bitten by it before
[05:30] <crimsun> .so symlinks are in -dev packages
[05:37] <Riddell> if I have a package from CVS how should I version it?  cvs20050115-ubuntu1  or cvs20050115-1ubuntu1 ?
[05:41] <fabbione> Riddell: i suggest <oldversion>+cvs<date>-0ubuntu1
[05:41] <fabbione> or something like that
[05:44] <trukulo> or better : package-cvs<date>-randomnumber-willfuckyoursystemifyoudontwatchit-ubuntu1
[05:47] <mako> trukulo: I HEARD THAT
[05:47] <mako> trukulo: be carefully buddy.. i know where you live :)
[05:54] <trukulo> mako, You talking to me? You talking to me? You talking to me?  You talking to me? Well, I'm the only one here.
[06:05] <Treenaks> trukulo: could you seed fabio_big or jeff_big? :) (you were the seed right?)
[06:08] <fabbione> ahah i found the perfect weapon to give to our users to kill all the bugs themselves
[06:08] <fabbione> http://twerked.com/~splice/pics/p_debates.jpg
[06:08] <bob2> hahaha
[06:09] <bob2> html files with .jpg extenions are wrong and against nature
[06:09] <trukulo> sure
[06:11] <Treenaks> bob2: as long as the MIME type is OK...
[06:11] <Treenaks> bob2: IE won't understand though :)
[06:13] <lupus_> nice :)
[06:13] <trukulo> Treenaks, fabio uploading
[06:13] <fabbione> trukulo: uploading what?
[06:13] <Treenaks> fabbione: video from mataro
[06:13] <fabbione> ah ok
[06:13] <trukulo> big one
[06:13] <fabbione> ok
[06:13] <trukulo> mirak, fabio big uploading
[06:14] <trukulo> ups
[06:14] <trukulo> Mithrandir, i mean
[06:14] <Treenaks> trukulo: I can't see a seed on fabio_big ?
[06:14] <Mithrandir> trukulo: great
[06:14] <trukulo> Treenaks, i'm doing right now
[06:15] <trukulo> Mithrandir, can you confirm seed of fabio?
[06:15] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I'm seeing it
[06:15] <Mithrandir> yeah
[06:15] <Treenaks> hmmm
[06:16] <Treenaks> oh hey it works now
[06:16] <trukulo> :)
[06:21] <seb128> is there a problem with the archive ?
[06:22] <amu> 3 problems with the livecd, ipw2200 is not detected, X with my nvidia and after login out, and relogin with gdm, gdm ask for a user + pass
[06:22] <seb128> nm
[07:00] <mdz> amu: tried the new live CDs? :-)
[07:00] <jdub> mdz: how's the rsyncability?
[07:00] <mdz> jdub: crap
[07:00] <jdub> bummer
[07:00] <amu> mdz: yep ;)
[07:01] <amu> mdz: *dammed* you sleep less than me
[07:01] <mdz> amu: did X come up for you?
[07:01] <jdub> sleep is for the week
[07:01] <bob2> haha
[07:01] <amu> mdz: no, driver was correct, nv, resolution was also fine, i changed it to vesa and it runs
[07:02] <mdz> amu: oh, does your card not work with nv?
[07:02] <mdz> amu: the login/logout thing is apparently a feature in gdm, but maybe we can change it...jdub, seb128?
[07:02] <amu> mdz: no, with 1600*1080 only nvidia works D
[07:03] <mdz> amu: is there some way to detect it so that we can choose vesa for that card instead of nv?
[07:03] <jdub> mdz: missed the context
[07:03] <mdz> amu: have you talked to daniels?
[07:03] <mdz> jdub: gdm autologin only autologins when it first starts up
[07:04] <jdub> oh right
[07:04] <mdz> jdub: if you log out, it leaves you at a login prompt
[07:04] <mdz> I assume this is by design
[07:04] <mdz> to prevent endless looping and that sort of thing
[07:04] <jdub> yeah, totally
[07:04] <jdub> can we just turn off logging out? :)
[07:04] <amu> mdz: nv it works with smaller ex 1400*9xx resolutions, but Xorg  detects full 1600*1080
[07:04] <mdz> dunno, can we?
[07:04] <jdub> i assume gdm with autologin if you ctrl-alt-backspace
[07:04] <jdub> we might be able to
[07:04] <mdz> at least remove it from the menu anyway
[07:05] <mdz> though
[07:05] <jdub> so the logout box will only have restart and shutdown
[07:05] <mdz> I sort of like the idea of being able ot test drive gdm
[07:05] <amu> mdz: nope i guess he's still sleeping idle for 6h
[07:05] <mdz> if they want to
[07:05] <jdub> mdz: true
[07:05] <jdub> mdz: maybe add to the livecd gdm artwork "login with ..."
[07:05] <mdz> jdub: or pre-fill it
[07:05] <mdz> with the autologin username
[07:05] <jdub> don't think we can do that
[07:06] <jdub> without code changes, at least
[07:06] <mdz> yeah, but easy ones
[07:06] <jdub> hrm
[07:06] <jdub> i think there's a 'remember last user' option
[07:06] <mdz> jdub: in 'expert' mode, maybe it would disable autologin entirely
[07:06] <mdz> and only seed the username
[07:06] <mdz> so the user could select their session or whatever
[07:06] <jdub> mmm
[07:07] <jdub> not that there are very useful alternative sessions ;)
[07:08] <mdz> no...
[07:08] <amu> jdub: isnt it possible to define a default user with no login? ex. with kdm you can define such a thing *ducks*
[07:08] <jdub> #DisplayLastLogin=false
[07:08] <mdz> amu: that's autologin, which is what we already do
[07:08] <jdub> we can turn that on, at least
[07:08] <jdub> mdz: i think he means default user but without actually doing the login (ie. seeding it)
[07:09] <mdz> oh, so the same thing I suggested
[07:09] <amu> jdub: ack
[07:09] <mdz> only cheeky ;-)
[07:09] <jdub> heg
[07:09] <amu> bleh
[07:15] <amu> hal-device-manager" has quit unexpectedly.
[07:18] <elmo> Riddell: ?
[07:19] <Riddell> elmo: hi
[07:19] <elmo> Riddell: your amarok upload is really broken in some way, it completely killed the archive scripts
[07:19] <elmo> Riddell: unfortunately I have to run right now.. I've moved it out of the way, but could you not reupload it and hold off on anymore uploads till I have a chance to figure out why?
[07:20] <elmo> [Offhand, I think the version number you used is illegal, but I'm surprised it caused that much chaos if that's all that's wrong]
[07:21] <chrisa> That's quite a feat
[07:21] <jdub> armed and dangerous
[07:21] <Riddell> 1.2_beta3-ubuntu1  the underscore should be a dash?
[07:24] <bob2> it should be nothing
[07:24] <bob2> assuming the upstream version is 1.2beta3
[07:26] <bob2> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[07:26] <Riddell> bob2: previous versions were 1.2-beta2  but then debuild complains that the version format it wrong so I changed it to an underscore
[07:26] <Riddell> I'm so naieve
[07:26] <bob2> wow
[07:26] <bob2> who packaged it originally?
[07:28] <Riddell> bob2: amu
[07:28] <jdub> *bob2 backpedals*
[07:29] <bob2> amu: your version numbering wais crackful :-)
[07:29] <amu> bob2: letme check :-()
[07:32] <amu> bob2: uptream version is 1.2-beta2+cvs20041228
[07:32] <amu> my version was 1.2-beta2+cvs20041228-1ubuntu1
[07:36] <amu> bob2: please explain me what's wrong with my version numbering, execpt to package a cvs version
[07:38] <mdz>           The <upstream_version> may contain only alphanumerics[1]  and the
[07:38] <mdz>           characters `.'  `+' `-' `:' (full stop, plus, hyphen, colon) and
[07:38] <mdz>           should start with a digit.
[07:38] <mdz> [1]   Alphanumerics are `A-Za-z0-9' only.
[07:38] <mdz> amu: ^^
[07:42] <T-Bone> hi
[07:43] <bob2> amu: it's ok but confusing to have multiple -'s
[07:50] <amu> bob2: err not :) "characC[C[C[C[C[C[Cters . + - : (full stop, plus, hyphen, colon) and should start with a digit"
[07:51] <bob2> oh, and not starting with a number
[08:01] <bob2>  * Starting Postfix Mail Transport Agent...
[08:01] <bob2> eval: invalid option -- c
[08:01] <bob2> postfix/postfix-script: warning: unable to create missing queue directories
[08:01] <bob2>  *stfix/postfix-script: fatal: Postfix integrity check failed!           [fail]
[08:02] <bob2> invoke-rc.d: initscript postfix, action "start" failed.
[08:08] <ogra> elmo ?
[08:19] <T-Bone> Kamion: ping?
[08:50] <Riddell> does anyone have an amd64 machine we could use to test a compile on?
[08:52] <amu> Riddell: me
[08:52] <Riddell> amu: you do?  well how about testing that libtunepimp change on it?
[08:53] <amu> Riddell: hold on i'll add you an account
[08:56] <mxpxpod> what's up with the gpg signatures?
[08:57] <mxpxpod> on the archives
[09:04] <doko_> mdz: hmm, fabbione didn't want to add an "artifical" version number, did talk with him about it.
[09:06] <fabbione> doko_: ????
[09:06] <T-Bone> fabbione: i'm debugging ia64 linux atm, fyi
[09:06] <fabbione> T-Bone: cool
[09:06] <T-Bone> s/linux/ubuntu/
[09:06] <fabbione> yeah
[09:07] <fabbione> my bitching put you on the right direction :-)
[09:07] <T-Bone> ran through some very nice issues, the first one being that the kernel package aren't on the daily hoary iso
[09:07] <fabbione> DOH
[09:07] <T-Bone> indeed
[09:08] <T-Bone> and that's the least of the pains
[09:08] <mdz> fabbione: linux-restricted-modules-<IP_ADDRESS>
[09:08] <fabbione> ah yeah..
[09:08] <doko_> fabbione: we did talk about adding the avm drivers as an uuencoded tarball, or upload them with a new lrm source, with an <IP_ADDRESS> version number. IIRC you wanted to have them uuencoded
[09:08] <T-Bone> i'm up to the point where i can boot the box standalone, but now i'm running into some issues i've already met on my ppc box, namely hotplug screwing up
[09:08] <fabbione> i suggested..
[09:09] <fabbione> T-Bone: interesting...
[09:09] <T-Bone> fabbione: which led me to curse the default kernel configuration for not having builtin support for USB keyboards
[09:09] <fabbione> doko_: don't get me wrong.. but i only suggested..
[09:09] <doko_> fabbione: ok, another upload ...
[09:10] <fabbione> for the reason that changing number might require other packages too change to
[09:10] <fabbione> T-Bone: that bounce back to you for not giving me a kernel config :-)
[09:10] <fabbione> doko_: go ahead.. * is fine for me :-)
[09:11] <T-Bone> fabbione: yeah, but unfortunately that's a common problem: had the same on my ppc box
[09:11] <T-Bone> i ended up completely disabling hardware auto detection and hardcoding mandatory modules through /etc/modules
[09:11] <fabbione> T-Bone: i am pretty sure we have usb keyboard support for PPC
[09:11] <T-Bone> that's exactly what i'm doing on ia64 now
[09:12] <T-Bone> fabbione: on warty, usb was support was a module
[09:12] <T-Bone> hence you didn't get a keyboard control until _after_ hotplug did its job. And when it didn't... you were screwd (as i am on ia64 ;)
[09:12] <fabbione> # USB Input Devices
[09:12] <fabbione> CONFIG_USB_HID=m
[09:12] <fabbione> CONFIG_USB_HIDINPUT=y
[09:12] <fabbione> CONFIG_USB_HIDDEV=y
[09:12] <fabbione> # USB HID Boot Protocol drivers
[09:12] <fabbione> CONFIG_USB_KBD=m
[09:12] <fabbione> CONFIG_USB_MOUSE=m
[09:13] <fabbione> it's there
[09:13] <T-Bone> fabbione: 'm'
[09:13] <fabbione> do you need it 'y'?
[09:13] <T-Bone> until the module gets loaded, you don't have a keyboard
[09:13] <T-Bone> fabbione: i do when hotplug screws: you can't interract with the init process until _after_ hotplug loads the module
[09:13] <fabbione> tough luck
[09:14] <fabbione> :P
[09:14] <T-Bone> it's the 5th time i'm booting on the cd, mounting the fs (rescue udeb doesn't seem to work btw) and editing a few files to get the box to boot
[09:14] <fabbione> sec.. i am on the phone
[09:14] <T-Bone> i'm in known country since i ran through the same havock on ppc
[09:17] <T-Bone> YAY! Box booted!
[09:18] <T-Bone> damn. that was a struggle
[09:18] <T-Bone> oh, while i'm at it: i gave warty a try on my 64bit g5 box. can't boot any power4 kernel
[09:21] <fabbione> re
[09:22] <fabbione> T-Bone: now.. upgrade the box... get linux-source-2.6.10 (-8)
[09:22] <fabbione> update the config in a decent way
[09:22] <fabbione> and send them back to me asap
[09:22] <T-Bone> fabbione: heheh, hold on buddy
[09:22] <T-Bone> the box is not in good shape
[09:22] <fabbione> you don't need to compile
[09:22] <fabbione> it's enough you send me the config
[09:22] <T-Bone> i had several failures with base install and had to tweak a lot the install process
[09:23] <T-Bone> ok
[09:23] <fabbione> i can do test builds for you
[09:23] <fabbione> and send you the logs back
[09:23] <T-Bone> fabbione: btw, the elilo package doesn't look good to me
[09:23] <T-Bone> it installs EFI cruft in /EFI/debian
[09:23] <fabbione> T-Bone: eheh this isn't my port dude :-)
[09:23] <T-Bone> lol
[09:23] <fabbione> somebody with ia64 needs to debug and fix
[09:23] <fabbione> i only have access to a remote machine where i can compile
[09:24] <fabbione> no console access, no root access
[09:24] <fabbione> so that's all i can offer
[09:24] <T-Bone> sure, but i don't have an overwhelming knowledge of all packages, nor all ia64-specific packages
[09:24] <fabbione> T-Bone: that's something we can coordinate in here
[09:24] <fabbione> also most of the basic ia64 stuff is simply dragged from debian
[09:24] <fabbione> s/basic/specific
[09:25] <T-Bone> i'll ask Bdale about elilo next time i see him online
[09:25] <fabbione> so it mostlikely needs love
[09:25] <T-Bone> yeah i figured that out
[09:26] <fabbione> and i am back to watch movies :-)
[09:28] <T-Bone> lol
[09:35] <T-Bone> fabbione: see what we're discussing with jbailey on #d-kernel. That might actually be the Right Thing to do, and thus keep kernel config consistent with Debian
[09:36] <fabbione> T-Bone: these configs are debian based but they are not the same and can't be
[09:36] <fabbione> we have different hardware support, more drivers
[09:36] <fabbione> etc.
[09:36] <T-Bone> good point
[09:36] <T-Bone> anyway please look at what was said on #d-k
[09:46] <daniels> Kamion: someone raised an interesting point -- is it worth having separate desktop and server install CDs?
[09:46] <daniels> Kamion: e.g. ooo out, a2/php4/postgres in
[09:46] <daniels> Kamion: since data centres in romania often have terrible bandwidth
[09:48] <lamont> bob2: what did you do to postfix??
[09:48] <T-Bone> lamont: i did go past the anna problem you told me about, but ran into quite a lot of issues
[09:49] <bob2> lamont: I have no idea
[09:49] <bob2> lamont: just sudo invoke-rc.d postfix stop
[09:50] <lamont> T-Bone: what was the anna issue?
[09:50] <T-Bone> lamont: no clue, wasn't hit. I used the expert mode and carefully selected the modules i needed, for i do not trust hw detection on anything else than x86
[09:50] <T-Bone> lamont: hw autodetect did fail shamelessly on my ppc box
[09:50] <bob2> lamont: is it fixable?
[09:51] <lamont> bob2: will have to check
[09:51] <lamont> mdz about?
[09:52] <bob2> hrm, maybe my filesystem is fux0red
[09:52] <T-Bone> lamont: i took a few notes about what went wrong, guess i'll mail kamion and you. d-i needs some changes afaict
[09:52] <T-Bone> oh
[09:53] <T-Bone> and daily ia64 isos need linux-images
[09:53] <T-Bone> ;)
[09:58] <lamont> those should be there, I thought...
[09:59] <lifeless> daniels: datacentre, romania, two words I didn't expect to hear in the same breath.
[10:00] <T-Bone> lamont: tried today's iso, weren't. Got the nice 'no installable kernels were found' fatal error
[10:03] <lamont> T-Bone: awesome.
[10:03] <lamont> that's a kamion thing
[10:03] <T-Bone> lamont: what?
[10:04] <lamont> T-Bone: getting kernels on the cd
[10:05] <T-Bone> ah ok
[10:05] <T-Bone> i'll send you a brief report of the couple of hours i spent on my zx2000 trying to get the damn thing to boot (which i eventually did after quite a lot of pain)
[10:06] <T-Bone> :)
[10:06] <lamont> actually, that's pretty much anyone... we just need to add them to the right seed....  mdz/jdub OK with that?
[10:07] <T-Bone> lamont: there's another problem with libunwind7: tho it's on the cd, for a reason i can't figure out, it doesn't get (properly?) installed and thus screws a few dependancies later on. Installing it by hand solves the issue
[10:09] <doko> T-Bone: which libunwind7 version do you try to install?
[10:09] <lamont> that should just be a debootstrap change
[10:09] <lamont> doko: today's daily-build install
[10:12] <T-Bone> i'm starving
[10:12] <T-Bone> bbl
[10:14] <daniels> mdz: when I do l-r-m/l-m for warty, does that go to -security, or -updates?
[10:16] <mdz> lamont: here
[10:16] <mdz> daniels: when you do a security update for it, that's -security.  when you fix a critical dataloss bug, that's -updates
[10:16] <lamont> looks like we may need to add the ia64 kernels to the seeds?
[10:16] <lamont> mdz^^
[10:17] <mdz> lamont: sounds likely
[10:17] <lamont> and mono...
[10:17] <lamont> did we decide to pull that from main until it can build itself?  and do we want to upload the 1.0.4 abomination?
[10:17] <mdz> I thought we decided that mono wasn't ready for horay
[10:17] <mdz> hoary
[10:17] <lamont> 1.0.4 in universe, then?  or not even that until it can build itself?
[10:18] <daniels> mdz: and when l-i changes and makes l-r-m uninstallable, that's ...
[10:18] <daniels> mdz: the only change is to get it back in step with a -security update
[10:19] <daniels> mdz: (since the latest update took it to .8.1-4)
[10:23] <mdz> daniels: X autoconfig fails on my amd64
[10:23] <mdz> it ends up with UseFBDev "true"; "false" works
[10:23] <mdz> the vga16 fb module is loaded, because we came from d-i (live CD)
[10:23] <mdz> daniels: er
[10:24] <mdz> daniels: kernel security updates should include a new l-r-m if the ABI changes
[10:24] <mdz> fabbione, pitti: ?
[10:24] <mdz> s/should/MUST/
[10:24] <daniels> mdz: errr ... wack
[10:24] <mdz> lamont: universe, sure
[10:24] <daniels> mdz: ok, so that (l-r-m)'s -security, then?
[10:25] <amu> daniels: X autoconfig fails on my amd64, changing from autodetected nv to vesa, works
[10:25] <mdz> daniels: yes, it would be, if in fact pitti/fabbione did not update it
[10:25] <daniels> good god
[10:25] <lamont> ok.  once I see the source back in universe, I'll deal with the upload.
[10:26] <daniels> mdz: currently, if we have a usable framebuffer, and it's not offb/vesa, we attempt to use it
[10:26] <amu> daniels: +i386 ... ppc with ati on testqueue :)
[10:26] <daniels> mdz: ok
[10:26] <mdz> daniels: maybe vga16 should be added to that list of exclusions?
[10:26] <mdz> dunno what the problem is
[10:26] <mdz> can get you a log
[10:26] <daniels> mdz: fixing the usefbdev mess will be a total shit, but i'll have a look at it
[10:26] <daniels> mdz: /proc/fb would be useful
[10:26] <daniels> amu: heh
[10:26] <mdz> ok, next boot
[10:27] <daniels> i'm very much tempted to whitelist UseFBDev, the same way I've whitelisted HorizSync/VertRefresh
[10:27] <daniels> iirc the only one that really needs it is nv/powerpc
[10:28] <amu> daniels: i think pitti has those combination
[10:31] <daniels> amu: yeah, a few dyo
[10:31] <daniels> the nv driver is complete crap, it does about the rough equivalent of drooling on the keyboard and hoping it'll work
[10:32] <daniels> needs all the assistance it can get to program modes
[10:33] <amu> daniels: unfortunately, i guess 30-35% of all new laptops/desktops comes with nvidia, i have too much trouble before with nv and gnoppix
[10:35] <daniels> amu: mercifully, most i386 laptops are i8xx, which we can do fine now
[10:36] <tritium> Is useradd or adduser preferred?
[10:38] <Treenaks> adduser I think
[10:38] <Treenaks> useradd is more "low-level"
[10:39] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, current powerpc live CD doesn't boot for me
[10:39] <mdz> and is suspiciously small
[10:39] <tritium> Treenaks, thanks.
[10:39] <amu> daniels: proc/fb 0 VGA16 VGA ( it's a GeForce FX Go 5200 )
[10:40] <mdz> daniels: ^^ that's what mine looked like, too
[10:45] <mdz> lamont: amd64 cloop image contains the wrong kernel modules
[10:45] <mdz> lamont: needs to be updated to 2.6.10-2
[10:46] <mdz> Kamion: re-burning fixed it, nm
[10:46] <mdz> though it is strange that it is smaller than i386
[10:54] <mdz> powerpc live CD++
[10:54] <amu> mdz: a ugly workaround for this nv problem is booting with linux debian-installer/framebuffer=false
[10:55] <mdz> daniels, amu: this was going to become a problem with usplash anyway, so may as well fix it now
[11:00] <fabbione> mdz: ?
[11:00] <T-Bone> fabbione: is that<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[11:00] <fabbione> yea
[11:00] <T-Bone> k
 fabbione, pitti: ?
[11:07] <mdz> fabbione: did you guys upload linux <IP_ADDRESS>-4 without updating linux-restricted-modules?
[11:07] <fabbione> mdz: no idea.. it's herbert/pitti that do warty
[11:08] <fabbione> was -4 the one that changed the ABI?
[11:08] <mdz> yes
[11:09] <fabbione> i remember i was in CC because i was doing hoary and you, pitti and herbert were discussing the problem
[11:09] <fabbione> but i didn't check if l-r-m was upload after that
[11:12] <mdz> I just finished (finally) converting my mythtv box to ubuntu
[11:12] <mdz> total 6 in the house now :-)
[11:13] <fabbione> mdz: still one less than me :-)
[11:13] <fabbione> i am up to 7 ubuntu and one debian
[11:13] <fabbione> :P
[11:13] <fabbione> and when i will be back from my honeymoon i will need to clean that up too :-)
[11:17] <mdz> fabbione: I could put ubuntu on the zaurus to catch up
[11:18] <fabbione> yeah but i run the only l33t hoary sparc in the world :-)
[11:21] <fabbione> spaaaarc.... elmo are you around?
[11:37] <mdz> fabbione: Jan 15 10:21:33 <elmo>  Riddell: unfortunately I have to run right now
[11:37] <mdz> (4 hours ago)
[11:38] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks :-)


[06:49] <el> better to just not do if if you're not confident you'll keep attention on it
[06:49] <el> +r is a damned if you do damned if don't think. there's just less cleanup to do with one of them
[06:50] <el> thing*


[00:52] <fretegi_away> thanks guys
[00:52] <fretegi_away> bbiab later tonight to tackle again
[00:52] <fretegi_away> good thing is, one drive of array is working and its all backed up as of an hour ago ha
[11:58] <geodb27> People : hi ! I'm trying to follow this document : https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall-quickstart to create a customized auto-install cd of 20.04 lts, however, I'm stuck with the iso creation. The example shown deals with a vm hosted on a computer and launched via kvm. This is not what I have to do : I must create vms with vcenter/vmware. So far as I know, I can only mount an iso and instruct to boot on it. So, how can I get
[11:58] <geodb27> an automated install on this infrastructure ?
[12:00] <rbasak> Do you have a reason for not just using a cloud image?
[12:02] <Ussat> you need to use the esxi comnmand line version of the kvm --boot option
[12:03] <Ussat> and...there are better ways
[12:09] <geodb27> Ussat: If there is a better and easier way to achieve that, then I'll take it. I have around 20 machines to create, each with the same partionning schema. Basically, the only changes between these 20 vms are their name and IP address.
[12:10] <geodb27> rbasak: I've setup a machine manually and have all the yaml descriptions I need in /var/log/installer/curtin-install-cfg.yaml so, I guess that I can use part of it as a base, indeed.
[12:13] <Ussat> On esxi build one system exactly how you want it, then make clones
[12:13] <Ussat> Thats exactly what templates are for
[12:17] <geodb27> This could be a solution, indeed. But that's not the way we process. I've written that these 20 machines would be quite the same, this is not true as for the cpu/ram/disks.
[12:19] <Ussat> so ? once the systems are created use esxi to modify that
[12:20] <Ussat> Basically, either you want clones or not, esxi does not have the ability to use cli tools lkike you want
[12:20] <Ussat> or, use KVM
[12:32] <geodb27> Ussat: I know it, but for historical reasons, we maintain our vm this way : one kind-of kickstart (redhat/ubuntu) to primo install our vms. No use of esxi templates or the like. So, I must conform to what I'm expected to do.
[12:32] <Ussat> ..
[12:32] <Ussat> Um.....ok.
[12:32] <Ussat> Not a good reason, but gluck then
[12:34] <geodb27> That said, is there a way to give the preseeded file (cloud-init syntax) as one did with 18.04 version of lts ? Some kernel parameter to feed ?
[12:46] <rbasak> Then use kvm to prepare a cloud image - no installer needed - and then hand that image over to vmware?
[13:11] <floogy> Hi, I can't get wifi with netplan working on 20.04 raspberry Pi 3B+
[13:28] <floogy> Uses netplan /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf to create /run/netplan/wpa-wlan0.conf ?
[13:30] <floogy> I got a yaml lint validated /etc/netplan/50-cloud-init.yaml with awifi section. I ran sudo netplan try, sudo systemctl daemon-reload and sudo netplan apply.
[13:36] <floogy> reason=CONN_FAILED
[13:37] <floogy> wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-ASSOC-REJECT bssid=38:10:d5:73:45:3a status_code=16
[13:38] <floogy> IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): wlan0: link becomes ready
[13:39] <floogy> I don't know at all why it gets rejected.
[13:42] <floogy> https://pastebin.pl/view/78064dfa
[13:49] <floogy> Formerly I used raspbian (debian stretch) without issues with wpa_supplicant. the microSD died, and I saved it with gddrescue. fsck found merely no errors but a journal it could restore. Also vfat wasn't affected by the thousands of badblocks and -adareas. Now I mounted the image and looked into the wpa_supplicant.conf and found nothing special.
[13:51] <floogy> Using these examples: https://netplan.io/examples/#connecting-to-an-open-wireless-network
[13:51] <floogy> http://www.yamllint.com/
[14:00] <floogy> Do I have to use hostapd? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1222278/detailed-how-to-or-example-needed-to-setup-an-access-point-using-netplan
[14:03] <floogy> But I want to use the raspi as a member in my LAN that joined the AVM Fritz!Box Router as accesspoint ...
[14:47] <geodb27> Hi again. I'm trying to understand this document : https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall-quickstart In particular the second Chapter "Run the install!" The kvm command given instructs the new vm to be build against a 10G disk (image.img), to use a second disk (seed.iso) and to boot (by which magic, this is not explained) on the mounted iso image as a cdrom. How is this method configured ? How does the install process know where
[14:47] <geodb27>  to mount/load the seed.iso ?
[14:55] <rbasak> geodb27: the installer is intended for bare metal, so you would boot bootable media just the same as you do normally.
[14:55] <rbasak> You said that you're using vmware. In that case "how to boot an ISO" is a vmware question and not specific to Ubuntu.
[15:06] <geodb27> rbasak: thanks for your answer, but I fear that you misunderstood my question. So I will try to elaborate : I just wanted to know how the installer is instructed to search the /dev/sdb for cloud-init files. I know how to boot an iso in vmware and that was not my last question. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
[15:15] <rbasak> geodb27: ah. I think that's maybe https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/datasources/configdrive.html
[15:15] <rbasak> cloud-init scans all drives for those criteria AIUI
[15:16] <rbasak> Sorry that's probably the wrong link
[15:16] <rbasak> I meant https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/datasources/nocloud.html
[15:18] <geodb27> Thank you so much rbasak, I think that with that, I'll be abble to do what I want !
[18:45] <Thumpxr> Anyone got a clue, how i can "cut" my own domain from a log file which fail2ban parses?
[18:51] <Thumpxr> got it ... it's not cutting/removing but rather writing the regex so that it checks the hostname later. >> failregex = mydomain.tld.* <HOST>.*POST.*(wp-login\.php|xmlrpc\.php).* 200
[20:09] <tafa2> How do you guys do file level backups on *nix production servers? I'm trying to find a pull based solution/method with deduplication. Any recommendations?
[20:35] <tomreyn> borg and restic, and (very different) bacula, are the backup systems i see most recomended. i'm not sure whether any of them support pull (bacula probably does).
[20:42] <tafa2> tomreyn bacula does, borg and restic don't natively
[20:42] <tomreyn> so... you already know?
[21:27] <floogy> Is it a good idea to mount /var per nfs to reduce write access on microSD cards on the raspberry Pi? Maybe with a script, that switches to tmpfs if the netdrive isn't available?


[12:25] <jenda> Is the drupal theme for ubuntu.com available? I would like to use it for ubuntuvideo.com
[12:31] <Burgundavia> jenda: ubuntu.com uses moin
[12:31] <jenda> ah
[12:31] <jenda> damn
[12:31] <jenda> i'll prod ubuntu.cz then :)
[12:41] <nixternal> jenda: http://chi.ubuntu-us.org
[12:41] <nixternal> is that what you want?
[12:41] <nixternal> i can zip it and get it to you if needed
[12:41] <jenda> nixternal: good 'nuff
[12:41] <jenda> If you could zip and send to John Little instead, it would be great :)
[12:42] <nixternal> hehe, that is the same theme going around all the other sites ;)
[12:42] <nixternal> i can do that for him
[12:45] <jenda> Thanks a bunch.
[12:45] <jenda> I told him it's coming.
[06:18] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings/MinutesTemplate
[06:18] <nixternal> ^^ does that flow ok?
[06:19] <nixternal> i had my girlfriend make me a meetings minutes template that they use for her board meetings
[06:20] <LaserJock> nixternal: cheater ;-)
[06:20] <nixternal> lol
[06:20] <Burgundavia> nixternal: that just isn't fair
[06:20] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: I am dragooning you into doing the Knot2 stuff
[06:20] <Burgundavia> I am not going to have the time
[06:21] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I see, and I have time? :-)
[06:21] <nixternal> i love it...kubuntu knot2 stuff is done...we are going to add some more minor touches now that we have a bit of a wait on our hands
[06:21] <Burgundavia> nixternal: then do the gnome one
[06:21] <nixternal> i can help out, sure
[08:20] <Burgundavia> night
[06:33] <LaserJock> lloydinho: you busy?
[06:35] <lloydinho> LaserJock, not really - what's up?
[06:35] <LaserJock> lloydinho: oh, I was just going to comment on the template for MOTU
[06:36] <lloydinho> LaserJock, cool. Anything special?
[06:36] <LaserJock> do you invision that being wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU or a seperate page linked from there
[06:36] <lloydinho> I think that would be the first team page that people reach - ie. /MOTU
[06:37] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:37] <LaserJock> with a team as large as MOTU it might be interesting
[06:37] <LaserJock> I'll have to work on that
[06:37] <lloydinho> Well, I thought you could introduce each sub-team as an individual project.
[06:38] <lloydinho> But the template would be more like guidelines, anyway..
[06:38] <LaserJock> the sub teams already have their own pages (not terribly well maintianed or done)
[06:38] <LaserJock> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
[06:39] <LaserJock> we have 23 teams listed
[06:41] <LaserJock> lloydinho: basically the problem is we have a littl over 100 MOTU pages
[06:41] <lloydinho> whoa!
[06:41] <lloydinho> Cleanup time.
[06:42] <LaserJock> we've tried to clean up a couple times since I've been around MOTU
[06:42] <lloydinho> No, what I would like is just a link from the Projects section to the sub-teams page.
[06:42] <lloydinho> With clear descriptions of the sub-teams...
[06:43] <lloydinho> ... I guess the problem is that there is simply too many packages and not enough people to fill the teams yet.
[06:43] <lloydinho> Simply cutting back on the number of teams might help?
[06:45] <LaserJock> well
[06:45] <LaserJock> I think just advertising the teams would be good
[06:45] <LaserJock> we don't really utilize them much
[06:47] <lloydinho> why advertize something that we don't use anyway?
[06:48] <LaserJock> nobody will use something that they don't know about ;-)
[06:50] <lloydinho> :-)
[06:51] <lloydinho> LaserJock, to be fair, I think that cleaning up in a tough way will make it a lot easier for new MOTUs to find their way around. With so many pages, it is kind of tricky knowing what to read.
[06:51] <LaserJock> yep
[06:51] <LaserJock> gotta be ruthless
[06:51] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:51] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[06:52] <lloydinho> :-)


[11:12] <andrejz> hello!
[11:12] <andrejz> can anyone confirm tranlsation bug for me
[11:12] <andrejz> go to empathy > Edit > Options > Calls
[11:13] <andrejz> is evertyhing tranlsated in that window, kelemengabor?
[11:13] <kelemengabor> andrejz: looking
[11:14] <iceroot> andrejz: no
[11:14] <kelemengabor> andrejz: there is a checkbox "Use echo cancellation to improve call quality" untranslated
[11:14] <iceroot> correct, that is missing
[11:14] <andrejz> yes that's true for me too :)
[11:14] <andrejz> just wanted a confirmation
[11:15] <andrejz> i will file a bug about it and post a link here
[11:17] <kelemengabor> it was added here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=657335
[11:17] <ubot4> Gnome bug 657335 in Preferences "Unnecessary and unexplained tickybox for “Echo Cancellation” in Preferences" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[11:17] <iceroot> andrejz: first have a look at launchpad if the missing string is still pending for translation
[11:17] <kelemengabor> there was even a string freeze break request
[11:17] <iceroot> ah ok
[11:18] <kelemengabor> iceroot: it is not present in the upstream template
[11:18] <andrejz> so it's probably best to report it on gnome bugzilla
[11:19] <kelemengabor> $ grep -r "echo cancellation" src/
[11:19] <kelemengabor> src/empathy-preferences.ui:                        <property name="label">Use _echo cancellation to improve call quality</property>
[11:19] <kelemengabor> yep
[11:19] <kelemengabor> definitely upstream :(
[11:21]  * andrejz searching for his bugzilla password
[11:22]  * kelemengabor is cooking a patch
[11:42] <kelemengabor> andrejz: any luck? I'm done ;)
[11:42] <andrejz> just rest my password
[11:42] <andrejz> will write it now
[11:42] <artnay> andrejz: hi. did you test the ubuntu guide?
[11:42] <andrejz> yes
[11:42] <andrejz> it's translated
[11:43] <artnay> andrejz: hmm, that's strange. thanks anyways.
[11:43] <andrejz> welcome
[11:46] <andrejz> Kelmengabor
[11:46] <andrejz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661756
[11:46] <ubot4> Gnome bug 661756 in Preferences "String "Use echo cancellation to improve call quality" is untranslated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[11:53] <kelemengabor> andrejz: thanks, patch attached
[12:07] <andrejz> cool, kelemengabor


[22:06] <pmatulis> can one say "start on started job1 or job2" ?
[23:07] <xnox> pmatulis: yes, it's "start on (started job1 or started job)"
[23:07] <xnox> pmatulis: but read the cook book about caveats w.r.t. or/and events.


[00:00] <jose> anyone around to finish this week's summaries?
[18:19] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue381
[18:19] <pleia2> and if any other editors are around, please have a look :)
[20:02] <Unit193> Looks fine.
[22:08] <pleia2> thanks
[22:20] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 381 for the week August 25 - 31, 2014 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue381


[10:45] <rmg51> Morning
[11:25] <JonathanD> Morning.
[13:10] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs and turkeys
[13:20] <teddy-dbear> that was strange
[13:21] <teddy-dbear> my laptop just shut down for no reason
[13:22] <teddy-dbear> I was just looking at Rhythmbox then the next thing I was looking at a blank screen
[13:22] <teddy-dbear> :P
[13:45] <InHisName> morning
[13:46] <InHisName> teddy-dbear: dead battery ?
[13:46] <teddy-dbear> nope
[13:47] <teddy-dbear> plugged in
[13:47] <InHisName> power loss,   --> dead fuse, dead PECO, dead squirel, etc.?
[13:53] <teddy-dbear> nothing like that
[13:54] <teddy-dbear> just on then off
[13:56] <ChinnoDog> overheat?
[14:07] <teddy-dbear> that's what I thought at first
[14:09] <teddy-dbear> temp seemed normal after reboot
[14:42] <ChinnoDog> Maybe it was just tired.
[15:06] <teddy-dbear> it's awake now :-D
[15:15] <mutantturkey_> so there are a couple apartments listed near here
[15:15] <mutantturkey_> http://goo.gl/maps/MpavC
[15:16] <mutantturkey_> in that 6 block radius
[15:16] <mutantturkey_> anyone ever been overthere and what thinks you?
[15:16] <mutantturkey_> prices are okay, all the philly crime maps seem to have it relatively low
[18:59] <MutantTurkey> waltman: can I get a few seconds for matlab? this one's easy
[18:59] <MutantTurkey> yaux=[0;lambda*counts];
[18:59] <MutantTurkey> lambda is a integer, counts is a vector
[18:59] <MutantTurkey> but what is the [0; part?
[19:10] <waltman> the ; is how you separate rows in a matrix
[19:10] <waltman> You know that matlab is completely interactive, right? Just try these things out and see what they do!
[19:11] <waltman> Also that ; thing is one of the first things you'll learn in any matlab tutorial.
[19:44] <MutantTurkey> ok :p
[19:45] <MutantTurkey> should just learn matlab
[19:47] <waltman> It might be a good idea, seeing as how you seem to be using it every day :)
[19:48] <waltman> maybe I should just start charging you :)
[19:55] <ChinnoDog> hehe. There is good money in that waltman.
[19:56] <MutantTurkey> matlab tutoring
[19:56] <MutantTurkey> i've seen posters for it
[19:58] <ChinnoDog> Learn Matlab and you could have a second job MutantTurkey
[19:59] <jedijf> or do the first one well
[20:01] <waltman> I could supplement my postdoc salary!
[20:01] <waltman> I could have made a ton helping kids on the most recent matlab assignment in $boss's class. :)
[20:02] <ChinnoDog> Why didn't you waltman? Easy money.
[20:08] <waltman> It might've been a little awkward, seeing as how my labmate at the next desk is TA for the class...
[20:10] <ChinnoDog> That doesn't sound awkward. That sounds ideal.
[21:05] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: I'm sorry I forgot to remind you... dell dimension lid?
[21:05] <JonathanD> ah
[21:05] <MutantTurkey> i'll try and do it sometime when you're at home
[21:05] <JonathanD> I'll look.
[21:05] <MutantTurkey> when is a good time for me to remind you?
[21:05] <JonathanD> I'll be home all day tomorrow.
[21:05] <MutantTurkey> great!
[21:05] <JonathanD> Except when I'm not.
[21:05] <MutantTurkey> heh
[21:05] <JonathanD> But I have off.
[21:06] <MutantTurkey> got it
[21:46] <MutantTurkey> drexel HR is the biggest pita of all time
[21:46] <MutantTurkey> always late with stuff, paperwork is always lost
[21:47] <MutantTurkey> it's costing me money.  Drexel Engineering Faculty Edition" next week.
[21:51] <waltman> "Faculty will square off in a battle of wits to answer freshmen engineering and general knowledge questions in a Jeopardy-style competition."
 "No, you don't understand.  "Excellent! It'll be funnier that way!"
[21:53] <waltman> http://www.drexel.edu/engineering/news/archive/2013/DrexeltoCelebrateNationalEngineersWeek/
[21:53] <MutantTurkey> ChinnoDog: yeah
[21:53] <MutantTurkey> waltman: that's how i see a lot of professors
[21:54] <waltman> heh
[21:54] <MutantTurkey> extremely specialized, in their field for a long time, very focused
[21:54] <MutantTurkey> which is awesome for research, for teaching maybe not so much
[21:55] <ChinnoDog> The best teachers I had at DeVry were not career teachers. They were people that worked in industry and taught on the side or after they retired.
[21:55] <waltman> There's a big variation in the teaching skills of professors.
[21:56] <MutantTurkey> not just skill
[21:56] <MutantTurkey> but interest in teaching
[21:56] <MutantTurkey> they can be student oriented, or very research oriented
[21:56] <waltman> Right, research counts for more than teaching in lots of places.
[21:56] <MutantTurkey> like drexel
[21:56] <waltman> There are some really good teachers in the CS department.
[21:56] <MutantTurkey> waltman: who do you think is good?
[21:56] <MutantTurkey> j/w haven't taken any course
[21:57] <MutantTurkey> i'd like to take gaylords sysadmin course
[21:58] <waltman> Shoukoufandeh. Johnson. Salvucci. Schmidt. Popyack.
[21:58] <waltman> Gaylord seems like he'd be a good teacher
[21:59] <MutantTurkey> popyack seems cool
[21:59] <waltman> Breen's kind of boring, but he certainly knows his stuff.
[22:00] <waltman> Mongan's really good, too
[22:00] <MutantTurkey> waltman: he admits to being boring
[22:01] <MutantTurkey> I think his phrase was "as long as you aren't the worst, drexel doesn't care"
[22:01] <waltman> I had a class with someone (no longer in the dept) who I'm pretty sure must have been the worst.
[22:02] <waltman> Shokoufandeh is an awesome teacher.
[22:03] <waltman> but what do you care? You're at Temple!
[22:03] <MutantTurkey> does Ko teach at all?
[22:03] <MutantTurkey> waltman: lol yeah
[22:03] <MutantTurkey> maybe my masters?
[22:03] <waltman> Yes, but he was on sabatical in Japan.
[22:03] <waltman> Ko's good, too.
[22:03] <MutantTurkey> His poor students... i get the feeling they are overworked
[22:04] <waltman> oh, they definitely are
[22:04] <MutantTurkey> gabe looks like he's going to fall over
[22:04] <waltman> he works them harder than anyone else in the department
[22:04] <MutantTurkey> GABE IF YOU'RE HERE I AM NOT BEING MEAN IM JUST WORRIED
[22:04] <MutantTurkey> yeah but they're also good at what they do.
[22:04] <waltman> nod
[22:04] <MutantTurkey> they go to plenty of conferences, get a lot of papers out
[22:05] <MutantTurkey> paper mill
[22:05] <waltman> yup
[22:05] <waltman> paper mill?
[22:05] <waltman> not just lots of papers, but the top conferences, too
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> you know they joke about paper mills where ungergrads can get papers written for them for money
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> they are like a scientific research mill
[22:06] <waltman> I'm still not following
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> I think gabe and steve were  in japan for a while
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> nevermind
[22:06] <waltman> I don't know what you're implying, but it sounds kind of insulting
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> hah
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> no
[22:07] <MutantTurkey> they are very efficient is what I am saying!
[22:07] <MutantTurkey> they are like a well oiled machine of churning out papers regularly and with high quality
[22:07] <MutantTurkey> that is the point
[22:07] <MutantTurkey> >.>
[22:07] <waltman> Oh, this is a new thing. Sun shining off of Crossings directly into my eyes.
[22:08] <MutantTurkey> do you face a window?
[22:08] <JonathanD> I went down in our lobby here a bit ago and the darn floor tiles blinded me.
[22:08] <MutantTurkey> wearing sunglasses in doors? Check
[22:19] <waltman> MutantTurkey: yes, sort of.
[22:19] <MutantTurkey> waltman: btw do people with masters write a thesis?
[22:19] <MutantTurkey> debating getting mine
[22:24] <waltman> MutantTurkey: yes.
[22:24] <MutantTurkey> and how long is it? a two year program?
[22:25] <waltman> I'm sure there's information about it on the department website.
[22:25] <waltman> Aren't you a freshman? Maybe you should focus on that?
[22:25] <MutantTurkey> Junior!
[22:26] <waltman> I've got to run for the train. Later.
[22:26] <MutantTurkey> good luck