[03:50] <elky> anyone around?
[03:51] <nhandler> Sort of
[03:51] <elky> in -offtopic?
[03:51] <elky> trying to talk paddy_ni off his fat hatred rampage
[03:52] <nhandler> I'm not a named OP in there, but can act if nobody else is around
[03:52] <nhandler> Let me look in there
[03:53] <elky> maco, joining in doesn't help.
[03:53] <maco> elky: ok
[03:53] <maco> elky: wait you said that efore i said anything to paddy
[03:54] <elky> yeah, you were fact-checking the pounds stuff. he'll take that as you not backing me up
[03:54] <elky> and he keeps score of if ops back ops up
[03:55] <maco> huh? but 14lb = 1 stone has nothing to do with what you were saying
[03:55] <elky> maco, precisely. he'll take you joining in at that point to be an indicator that you don't agree he should stop
[03:56] <elky> it's how he works. he keeps score of how many active ops aren't helping stop him
[03:56] <maco> weird
[03:56] <elky> he's painful.
[03:56] <maco> im not an op in there though
[03:57] <maco> im just a random person
[03:57] <elky> he knows who is in here.
[03:57] <elky> beyond that, he doesn't care who actually has kick powers
[04:03] <elky> the simple matter is that people should get to be in offtopic without being alienated for body image.
[04:03] <elky> he's refusing to be considerate of that
[04:05] <elky> hmm, he obviously hasn't figured you're an op yet
[04:05] <maco> because im /not/ an op in there :P
[04:05] <elky> Tell him to stop baiting though
[04:05] <elky> He does this every time.
[04:10] <Flannel> Just ban him.  He's walked the line (and crossed it) far too many times
[04:10] <IdleOne> May I paste a small talk I just had with Paddy in here?
[04:12] <IdleOne> or not
[04:12] <maco> umm ... elky?
[04:12] <elky> pastebin it
[04:12] <IdleOne> it is clean, non offensive and SFW
[04:13] <IdleOne> and does not name any of the ops
[04:13] <maco> pastebin with short expiration?
[04:14] <elky> this is a logged channel though, PMs are not logged. see where the issue comes in?
[04:14] <IdleOne> I have nothing to hide
[04:14] <IdleOne> I will PM the paste link
[04:15] <IdleOne> 3 of you got it
[04:15] <elky> Hmm, He seems to think you conceded.
[04:16] <maco> since IdleOne said "not saying you can't..." yeah thats how he'd take it
[04:16] <IdleOne> I didn't say anything about specific topic. I left in open on purpose but also asked him to remember others feelings
[04:17] <elky> IdleOne, he's a complicated one to deal with
[04:17] <elky> He'll read in to things what he wishes to.
[04:17] <IdleOne> Now that being said I think that we all need to remember that we have seen and let slide way worse in -offtopic
[04:17] <elky> IdleOne, yes, but he's a persistant issue
[04:17] <IdleOne> then make a persistent ban
[04:18] <elky> he's due for another enforced holiday
[04:18] <elky> as Flannel said.
[04:18] <elky> IdleOne, we've been in this cycle with him for years.
[04:18] <IdleOne> he won't change. we know him. now if the decission is to ban for good then I'll respect it but until then we can't jump down his throat for every little thing he says
[04:19] <IdleOne> intentions are hard to judge on irc. I don't have to tell you that
[04:19] <maco> IdleOne: i think the fact that he wasnt dropping it was the issue
[04:19] <IdleOne> you know!
[04:20] <IdleOne> I am not trying to defend his case.
[04:20] <elky> maco, pretty much.
[04:20] <IdleOne> I am saying we either make a stand or don't.
[04:20] <elky> IdleOne, you're suggesting unrealistic ideals though :P
[04:21] <IdleOne> elky I am trying to be really nice here.
[04:21] <Flannel> IdleOne: If it makes you feel any better re: making a stand, were I around 20 minutes or whatnot when he was being actively troublesome, he'd no longer be in -ot
[04:21] <IdleOne> So ban him
[04:21] <Flannel> IdleOne: I'm not going to ban him so far after the fact.
[04:22] <elky> Flannel, if you want to discuss an enforced holiday with him now, by all means.
[04:22] <elky> The only reason I didn't ban is because he was spitting directly at me.
[04:22] <Flannel> He was dealt with at the time, just because it wasn't how I personally would've dealt with him doesn't mean he wasn't dealt with appropriately by those involved.
[04:29] <maco> elky: ps, we have an unwanted visitor in #ubuntu-women
[04:29] <maco> i think you kicked them yesterday
[04:29] <elky> yeah, i'm waiting for him to slip up
[04:29] <elky> it was only a kick, so i cant enforce a ban evasion :(
[04:39] <elky> maco, i'm going to get some lunch, ban the guy if he starts with the euphamisms again today
[04:40] <maco> elky: ok
[05:20] <elky> Flannel, still around?
[05:21] <Flannel> elky: What's up?
[05:21] <Flannel> O
[05:21] <Flannel> h
[05:21] <elky> Yeah.
[05:21] <elky> Your turn.
[05:37] <IdleOne> nobody told me this job meant I had to take the advice my therapist gives me and then give it away for free to others
[05:37] <IdleOne> I pay that doctor good money
[05:37] <IdleOne> :)
[05:37] <IdleOne> I should of read the fine print before I signed the contract
[06:47] <elky> heh
[07:05] <Madpilot> hey all
[07:13]  * maco just read -ot scrollback from 2 hours ago and wonders why justin22885 was not told off for transphobic comments
[07:25] <elky> because i didn't notice them. he was attention seeking earlier, but it wasn't like that
[08:06] <jpds> elky: Hi.
[08:06] <elky> jpds, hi?
[08:07] <jpds> elky: Can you change the /topic of #ubuntu-uds-auditorium-canopee to point people at #ubuntu-uds ?
[08:07] <elky> uh, i don't know
[08:07] <jpds> Access lists for both channels is rather limited.
[08:08] <elky> tsimpson?
[08:08] <elky> jpds, i dont have access to any of those accounts, no. stdin is tsimpson though
[08:08] <jpds> Idle: 10 hours.
[08:08] <elky> i cannot do anything for you, sorry
[08:08] <jpds> Arg, I forgot you're not council anymore. :(
[08:09]  * jpds wonders where jussi went.
[08:21] <jpds> jussi: Can't we just do *!*@ubuntu/member/* ?
[08:24] <jussi> jpds: [10:24:43] [ChanServ] Flags +t were set on *!*@ubuntu/member/* in #ubuntu-uds.
[08:24] <jpds> o/
[09:20] <Tm_T> was it $ the banforward character?
[09:21] <Tm_T> yes
[09:24] <Tm_T> ...I think I got it right
[11:02] <Madpilot> morning dholbach
[11:37] <Tm_T> nice
[11:51] <Tm_T> tsimpson: I'm trying to find out if he's been pasting, relaying or just genuine user, I might have been too quick
[11:51] <Tm_T> tsimpson: but thus far he hasn't answered my pm
[11:52] <tsimpson> Tm_T: either way, they have now had sufficient warning :)
[11:53] <Tm_T> you might like to watch their language, I'm supposed to be doing something totally else
[11:53] <tsimpson> Tm_T: I'm also attempting to do a million things here, but if I get a highlight I'll act
[11:54] <Tm_T> nazi calling, for instance? (;
[11:54] <tsimpson> yes, I have that word on highlight too :)
[11:54] <Tm_T> good
[12:19] <gnomefreak> is the bot down?
[12:19] <gnomefreak> ok no its not
[12:19] <gnomefreak> i guess bot doesnt do (bug #) in -offtopic channels
[13:01] <jussi> gnomefreak: correct
[13:02] <gnomefreak> jussi: thanks tsimpson had gotten to me :)
[14:35] <elky> who was the one with the chloroform part message the other day?
[14:36] <elky> same guy
[14:36] <Pici> oCean iirc.
[14:36] <IdleOne> I think it was the same guy yeah
[14:36] <elky> did anyone talk to him yet?
[14:36] <IdleOne> not I
[16:01] <h00k> @login
[16:01] <h00k> @btlogin
[16:25] <h00k> d'aw, the sound factoid didn't get updated yet;)
[16:43] <gnomefreak> !sound
[16:43] <gnomefreak> looks ok to me but im running on very little sleep
[16:45] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: it should tell about pulseaudio, not alsa
[16:46] <gnomefreak> ah
[16:47] <gnomefreak> change !sound to !alsa and make one for !pulseaudio since you can still use alsa without PA
[16:47] <gnomefreak> would be my opinion
[16:47] <h00k> but you can't double click on the control applet anymore ;)
[16:48] <h00k> I suggested an update a while back but I'm too lazy to read my scrollback
[16:48] <gnomefreak> single click on control applet
[16:50] <h00k> my scrollback doesn't go up that far, brb
[16:51] <gnomefreak> if not done by tomorrow myabe ill have slept and ill change it if i remember
[16:54] <h00k> Ah, I suggested this:
[16:54] <h00k> !sound is If you're having problems with sound, click the Volume applet, then Sound Preferences, and check your Volume, Hardware, Input, and Output settings.  If that fails, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting - http://alsa.opensrc.org/DmixPlugin - For playing audio files,  see !players and !mp3.
[19:00] <Pici> !sound
[20:54] <Pici> maco: you must have some intresting things on hilight in #ubuntu
[20:54] <maco> Pici: i have "girl" and "girls" on highlight
[20:54] <maco> the other day this resulted in being pinged into a spice girls convo in #ubuntu-community-team
[20:54] <Pici> scary
[20:55] <Pici> maco: I was just about to reply in #u and *poof* there you are.
[20:55] <maco> heh
[20:56] <maco> i actually have those highlight rules because of -ot
[20:56] <maco> wanted to be notified when "hot girl" and "girls are stupid" conversations come up
[20:58] <Pici> maco: now you get to clean up after mentioning that channel in #ubuntu.  I really wish I was joking.
[20:59] <maco> actually last few times ive pointed people to it in #ubuntu, i braced myself for a storm and it didnt come
[20:59] <Pici> Really? Thats good.
[20:59] <maco> i used to PM people to tell them about it but getting permission to PM without telling them why is a bit tough :P
[20:59] <maco> and "because you're a chick" is sure to result in "ew no, you creep!"
 I think I heard him in one today.. I saw him in a couple at the last UDS too
[22:42]  * txwikinger wants video streaming to track if jussi is in sessions
[22:42] <jussi> lol
[22:43] <jussi> I swear there were a lot of people asleep in the Qt on ARM session
[22:43] <tsimpson> well it was the first day
[22:51] <jussi> bed time ->


[03:14] <charlie-tca> ubuntustudio tests are 100%;
[03:15] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu tests are complete, I think jibel forgot to sign off one wubi test - Xubuntu Desktop 386
[13:27] <jibel> Yay Ubuntu 11.10 is out \o/
[13:27] <jibel> A Big Thank You to hggdh, chadadavis, jamespage, jriddell, gilir,
[13:27] <jibel> GrueMaster, Lance, stgraber, charlie-tca, jdstrand, kardipapa,
[13:28] <jibel> Claudinux, ScottK, pedro_, Fo5150, evand, hallyn, ogra, patrickmw,
[13:28] <jibel> GirlyGirl, brendand, Yofel, Unit193, AntonioAllegretti, wobblybob,
[13:28] <jibel> Alessio Grosso Sgarrillo, pitti, valix, mgariepy, kidsodateless,
[13:28] <jibel> FrancescoRuvolo, PatrickDK, bennachie, PaoloRotolo, albert, olbi,
[13:28] <jibel> Letozaf_, elopio, Scott Lavender, Fly82, ara, NightSilente, mvo,
[13:28] <jibel> Letozaf_, elopio, Scott Lavender, Fly82, ara, NightSilente, mvo,
[13:28] <jibel> starslights, MarcoBuono, utlemming, yotux, primes2h, Alemar04,
[13:28] <jibel> Chris_Urie, jlaundry, GridCube, infinity, totopalma, smb, nobuto,
[13:28] <jibel> valorie, highvoltage, DomenicoRotolo, jerrylamos, jincreator,
[13:28] <jibel> skaet, bambi and zerng07 for testing the ISOs.
[13:28]  * mvo hugs jibel
[13:28] <jibel> The release would not be able to go out today without your efforts!
[13:28] <pedro_> jibel,  congrats to you too! :-)
[13:28] <brendand> you're super welcome jibel!
[13:29] <charlie-tca> Congrats and thank you to jibel also!
[13:29] <brendand> and more thanks goes to you jibel!
[13:29] <hggdh> jibel: thank YOU for all your work
[13:29] <skaet> Thanks jibel and everyone who help test it.   Very much appreciate all your help getting the images ready to share and the blockers figured out!  :)
[13:30] <davmor2> Congratulations to everyone
[13:30] <jincreator> jibel: Congraturation to Ubuntu 11.10 and thanks to you!
[13:32] <roadmr> \o/ yay!! congrats all!
[13:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: now don't break anything
[13:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: already have
[14:52] <primes2h> thank you too, jibel and congrats :-)
[15:12] <bdmurray> jibel: do you still have access to the system in bug 873208?
[15:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 873208 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu listed as Ubuntu on grub menu on a dual boot install (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873208
[15:15] <jibel> bdmurray, maybe, let me check.
[15:17] <jibel> bdmurray, it's up. What info do you need ?
[15:17] <bdmurray> lsb_release -a
[15:18] <jibel> Ubuntu :/
[15:18] <bdmurray> I'm actually not certain if that's right or wrong though
[15:20] <jibel> I'm updating the report with this information.
[15:20] <bdmurray> jibel: oh there's a tool called os-prober
[15:21] <jibel> it returns /dev/vda1:Ubuntu 10.04 (11.04):Ubuntu:Linux
[15:21] <jibel> which is the content of the other partition
[15:23] <bdmurray> jibel: oh and then there's linux-boot-prober which is used with /dev/vda
[15:23] <bdmurray> er /dev/vda1
[15:26] <bdmurray> jibel: I'm just reading util/grub.d/30_os-prober.in
[18:14] <nags> anyone noticing this ? http://pastebin.com/fvD9nvrs
[18:17] <patdk-wk> yep, getting it also
[18:18] <patdk-wk> but I was fetching lucid
[18:23] <nags> patdk-wk, ok
[18:23] <nags> hi cr3
[18:33] <cr3> nags: hola senor!
[18:33] <nags> cr3, :-)
[18:33] <nags> cr3, how things ?
[18:36] <nags> my 11.10 upgrade scenario wasn't smooth, also 2 other's @work can reproduce the issue, anyone else facing this issue
[18:36] <nags> http://pastebin.com/LU7cLZ7U
[18:45] <cr3> nags: pretty awesome, oneiric released today and ubuntu friendly too: http://friendly.ubuntu.com
[18:45] <cr3> exciting times
[18:46] <nags> cr3, that's cool :-)
[18:49] <nags> cr3, I don't see friendly or system testing in my app list
[18:49] <nags> probably I need to install it !
[18:50] <cr3> nags: you're running oneiric?
[18:52] <nags> cr3, yes
[18:52] <cr3> nags: good new! regarding archive.canonical.com, it's being swamped by the release and new capacity is currently being added
[18:53] <nags> cr3, ok
[18:53] <cr3> nags: about friendly, if you don't get anything when typing "friendly" in the app launcher, please make sure that you have the checkbox package installed, version 0.12.8
[18:53]  * patdk-wk isn't swamping it
[18:55] <nags> cr3, let me install it
[18:55] <nags> cr3, checkbox is already the newest version.
[18:56] <nags> cr3, its not mentioned in the text area of this link, I haven't watched the video
[18:56] <cr3> nags: oh, you need to look at the video, ara did it :)
[18:58] <patdk-wk> I'll have to give that a go sometime
[18:58] <nags> cr3, :-D I'm lazy
[18:58] <nags> cr3, will watch it
[18:58] <nags> kudos to ara :-)


[08:57] <Burgundavia> anybody alive?
[10:10] <popey> yes Burgundavia
[10:10] <Burgundavia> hey popey
[10:11] <Burgundavia> have you been able to get the new firefox stuff working?
[10:12] <popey> new firefox stuff?
[10:12] <popey> installing add-ons via package management?
[10:12] <Burgundavia> this stuff: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/gutsybeta
[10:13] <popey> yes Burgundavia
[10:13] <Burgundavia> how do I get that 2nd dialogue?
[10:13] <popey> when I first saw it was available i uninstalled some add-ons and used that to add them back in
[10:14] <popey> Tools --> Add-ons, then choose "get ubuntu addons"
[10:14] <popey> tiny link at the bottom of the add-ons window
[10:14] <Burgundavia> oh
[10:14] <popey> find it? it work?
[10:15] <Burgundavia> foudn it
[10:43] <Burgundavia> popey: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1169
[10:43] <Burgundavia> can you give it a quick proof?
[10:43] <Burgundavia> not yet ready to go live
[09:58] <Burgundavia> hey beuno
[10:06] <beuno> hey Burgundavia


[00:37] <20WAAFW9U> Serendipitously I just ran into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AivEQmfPpk
[00:37] <belkinsa> 20WAAFW9U, what's with the nick change?
[00:38] <20WAAFW9U> Got disconnected, so my IRC client (pidgin) adds a suffix until the original nick clears the  server
[00:38] <belkinsa> I see.
[00:38] <20WAAFW9U> Oh, I see this: 20WAAFW9U
[00:39] <20WAAFW9U> That seems a bit severe
[00:39] <belkinsa> It does.
[00:39] <BobJonkman> Better?
[00:39] <belkinsa> Yup.
[00:41] <BobJonkman> I'm usually BobJonkman or BobJonkman1 and sometimes get as high as BobJonkman3.  I don't think I've ever been 20WAAFW9U before
[01:33] <mhall119> AlanBell: happy birthday :)
[01:33] <mhall119> it still is on this side of the pond anyway, so I'm not technically late
[05:27] <locodir-user> we cannt install canon printer in ubantu 12.04 lts
[05:27] <locodir-user> any one help us
[05:47] <BobJonkman1> Hi locodir-user: You may want to see if your printer is listed on https://www.openprinting.org/printers
[05:49] <BobJonkman1> locodir-user: Otherwise you're best off asking support questions in the IRC channel #ubuntu -- this channel #ubuntu-locoteams is for the Local Community Teams around the world; more of an administrative channel than a technical support channel
[05:52] <locodir-user> i have checked that printer is listed in openprinting.org
[05:52] <locodir-user> model is canon LBP2900B
[05:56] <BobJonkman1> OK, then pop over to #ubuntu and explain the problem, any error message you're getting, what you've tried, what the results were
[06:15] <dholbach> good morning
[13:38] <mhall119> AlanBell: ping
[20:08] <genii> Ah, OK, in -meeting
[21:07] <geochr> !lococouncil I have sent an email on mailing list, please sent me a reply if someone is online.
[21:08] <belkinsa> jose, ^^^
[21:08] <jose> geochr: I'll reply in a couple minutes, finishing something
[21:08] <jose> belkinsa: no need to double-highlight, thanks :)
[21:08] <belkinsa> Sorry.
[21:08] <belkinsa> I forgot you can see it
[21:08] <jose> we have lococouncil and loco-council on highlight (which is... messy sometimes when spammers decide to hit)
[21:08] <belkinsa> Ah, I see.
[21:08] <belkinsa> Smart move.
[21:22] <geochr> thanks Jose
[21:22] <jose> np


[12:40] <scriptwarlock> ping anyone
[12:55] <astraljava> scriptwarlock: pong
[12:56] <scriptwarlock> you using ustudio?
[12:57] <astraljava> I sure am.
[12:58] <astraljava> precise, though.
[13:00] <scriptwarlock> what advantage do we have on rtkernel over the standard kernel ubuntu uses?
[13:00] <astraljava> We don't have an rt-kernel. Oneiric (and prior all the way up to I can't recall which release) used the same the vanilla used. But for precise, there's going to be a -lowlatency kernel.
[13:01] <scriptwarlock> what does that mean astraljava?
[13:01] <astraljava> But I'm not the guy to answer the pros and cons about kernels. I get the basic idea, which is quite obvious from the name already, ie. lowering the latency of the system.
[13:02] <scriptwarlock> this is my first time to use ustudio and was very delighted
[13:02] <scriptwarlock> although i was used now to unity and this release is xfcw
[13:02] <astraljava> People have been testing this new kernel, and from their reports I can concoct that it's going to be awesome for the majority of audio creators. For others, I'm not sure whether they benefit from it at all.
[13:02] <scriptwarlock> xfce
[13:03] <astraljava> Yeah, the switch was done for oneiric already, but now it got polished a little bit further.
[13:03] <astraljava> IMHO, this is one of the most solid releases we've done thus far.
[13:03] <astraljava> I hope others will feel the same when they get to use it.
[13:04] <scriptwarlock> i have ustudio precise on vmware and was very happy although a lot of apps that i dont need really is it safe to remove some of this?
[13:05] <astraljava> scriptwarlock: It is. Mind you, when you remove something a meta-package (like ubuntustudio-desktop) depends on, you'll lose automatic updates that normally belong to the default installation setup. But it's not a problem, really. Everything can be installed back if you want to.
[13:05] <scriptwarlock> of course
[13:05] <astraljava> And by automatic updates here I mean new features that are marked with the meta-package. But this late into the cycle, there won't be any.
[13:06] <scriptwarlock> someone told me here that there was a plan to install apps by option thru usc
[13:06] <astraljava> Ok, I'm gonna head back to sauna now. Just realised sitting there I left out some links from the email to the list.
[13:07] <astraljava> Yeah I don't know when we get to that.
[13:07] <astraljava> Maybe during the next cycle.
[13:07] <astraljava> Talk to you later, have fun with precise! :)
[13:07] <scriptwarlock> thanks astraljava
[19:07] <thebishop> is anyone testing firewire sound cards in 12.04?  I couldn't get jack to start with my saffire pro24  (supported by ffado)
[20:33] <holstein> thebishop: works live with my presonus firepod
[20:33] <holstein> try gksudo qjackctl
[20:33] <thebishop> holstein, hmm.  well, i'd rather not run as root, but i did try it.  permissions don't seem to be the problem.  i'm wondering if realtime prio is configured properly
[20:34] <thebishop> studio gets permissions right.  i have read/write to /dev/fw1 via the audio group
[20:35] <holstein> thebishop: im suggesting as a troubleshooting step
[20:35] <holstein> thebishop: if it runs, you know its permissions related
[20:36] <thebishop> holstein, sure.  i did try it.  I'm running jackd -d firewire -p 256 -n 2 -r 48000
[20:36] <thebishop> as root or not
[20:36] <holstein> i dont run JACK as root, but its one of the first things i do to troubleshoot
[20:36] <holstein> thebishop: if you would, run "gksudo qjackctl"
[20:36] <holstein> try the firewire driver, see if it runs
[20:36] <thebishop> firewire ERR: Could not start streaming threads
[20:36] <holstein> that works for me from the LIVE CD
[20:37] <holstein> thebishop: has it worked in the past?
[20:37] <holstein> is the kernel seeing the firewire controller?
[20:37] <thebishop> holstein, yes to both
[20:37] <thebishop> although i've had to build jack and ffado from svn
[20:37] <holstein> thebishop: try from the live CD
[20:37] <thebishop> i'll do that
[20:38] <holstein> on the stock stuff.. just to be sure


[00:04] <XubuntuNub> Running smoothly
[00:04] <XubuntuNub> not finished tho
[00:05] <kadiro> I hope it will get success
[00:06] <XubuntuNub> Mission failed
[00:06] <kadiro> oh
[00:06] <kadiro> what happen
[00:06] <XubuntuNub> The grub-efi-amd64-signed failed to install into /target/
[00:08] <XubuntuNub> Hmm
[00:09] <kadiro> XubuntuNub> I'm out of idea but take a look at this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/789998/16-04-new-installation-gives-grub-efi-amd64-signed-failed-installation-target
[00:09] <kadiro> just don't use errase disk but ubuntu only
[00:10] <kadiro> XubuntuNub> for safety ask before doing any thing to your drive
[00:10] <kadiro> as you can remove your windows without taking attention
[00:11] <XubuntuNub> Alright
[00:11] <kadiro> I must go, you can ask here or in ubuntu channel
[01:26] <Ricochet77> I wished I had found you earlier. I am in the midst of a nightmare with my computer. The HDD acts like it starting to go bad.  I loaded as suggested GSmart Tool to determine if my HDD is ok. After 4 hours  of testing, indeterminate. Says it is good but with potential problems. Happened again. So this time I loaded Xubuntu 18.04. Seems to work
[01:26] <Ricochet77> better than Lubuntu 18.04. Go figure. I have an email address of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if someone could get back with me for a little bit of help for novice like myself. But eager to learn from all you experts. Come to me now you are. But give me a few months and help me grasp the basics of Linux and I will be good. Anyway my system is ready to
[01:26] <Ricochet77> restart with this new reboot. Hope to keep from the previous installation while I load Xubuntu alongside the Lubuntu. Can anyone help, if you can get a hold me by my email and thanks. R
[01:28] <CICDC> With the latest update (19.10) I wanted to know if I still need lightdm or if I can remove it and just use the new screensaver? It seems that if it's tied to the xubuntu core (according to synaptic)
[01:29] <CICDC> it won't be easy to remove, in which case is it ok to just keep around (not interfere with anything)
[08:37] <nikolam_> seems to me that I can't change screensaver timeout from 5 minutes to anything bigger. It keeps resetting back to 5 minutes..
[08:38] <nikolam_> only when I hit "+/-" signs after the idle time field, then it remembers and not after entering number in it..
[11:29] <XoaGray> Anyone have time for a question?
[11:43] <nikolam> don't ask to ask
[11:44] <XoaGray> Okay, sorry. the website said this was a help channel.
[12:02] <nikolam> he didn't get it.
[14:13] <Noboru55> Hello... please what is the easy way to format a usb pendrive?
[14:13] <Noboru55> i am kind newbie, because in past i only used slackware in the times when we did not have usb.... that time i just used the mke2fs... now i do not know how to format, and the gparted doest make it usable...
[14:14] <Noboru55> is there some software or terminal way to format usb pendrive?
[14:16] <ondondil> the easiest way would be to use gnome-disk-utility
[14:16] <Noboru55> ondondil i will get it...
[14:16] <Noboru55> download i mean
[14:18] <Noboru55> ondondil very nice! you are the man!
[14:19] <Noboru55> thank you
[14:22] <Noboru55> i was running windows, but my laptop is not a good laptop and the win10 was not running lightweigthed so i installed this xubuntu and i am impressing how it is perfetc
[14:23] <Noboru55> sometimes i need some help to do something
[17:39] <tomreyn> did the xubuntu 19.10 amd64 desktop installer (Xubuntu-19.10-desktop-amd64.iso) release with a 5.0.0-23-generic #24~18.04.1-Ubuntu kernel? https://pastebin.com/raw/GxqNG8TD
[17:40] <tomreyn> standard ubuntu 19.10 desktop amd64.iso comes with 5.3.0-18 #19
[17:47] <brainwash> tomreyn: not according to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/19.10/release/xubuntu-19.10-desktop-amd64.manifest
[17:50] <tomreyn> brainwash: thank you
[18:23] <Noboru55> Hello, i use the trash icon in my panel, but even the trahs is empty it shows like full
[18:24] <Noboru55> is there some way to solve the trash icon full in panel?


[10:17] <slyon> bradd: are you using DHCP configuration? This might explain the broken networking after a delay (i.e. after DNS was updated/overriden by DHCP). In this case you might want to make use of dhcp4-overrides.use-dns=no (https://netplan.io/reference/#dhcp-overrides)


[07:23] <dholbach> good morning
[13:14] <bac> good morning dholbach
[13:14] <dholbach> hi bac
[13:14] <bac> dholbach: have a fun trip over the break?
[13:14] <bac> bkk is great
[13:14] <dholbach> yeah, I could have stayed much much longer ;-)
[13:15] <bac> do you got pickpocketed?
[13:15] <bac>  s/do/so
[13:16] <dholbach> ah, that was back home again
[13:16] <dholbach> it was my birthday party in a small club when I noticed that when we closed shop that my wallet was gone
[13:16] <dholbach> the most annoying part was getting all the cards again and running from one office to another and calling the bank and others
[13:16] <dholbach> but I survived :)
[13:18] <bac> glad it wasn't while traveling
[13:19] <dholbach> yeah, that wouldn've been worse :)
[13:19] <dholbach> but yeah, Thailand is going to see me again, I'm sure of it
[13:23] <dholbach> how are you doing?


[15:00] <slyon> o/
[15:01] <zhsj> o/
[15:01] <ogayot> o/
[15:01] <dviererbe> o/
[15:01] <ginggs> o/
[15:01] <adrien> \o
[15:01] <mclemenceau> o/
[15:01] <bdrung> \o
[15:01] <liushuyu> o/
[15:01] <mwhudson> !
[15:01] <mateus-morais> o/
[15:02] <schopin> o/
[15:02] <waveform> o/
[15:02] <juliank> o/
[15:02] <juliank> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:02:22 UTC.  The chair is juliank.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:02] <juliank> #topic Lightning rounds
[15:02] <juliank> We are going to skip this today, as discourse is down
[15:03] <juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs
[15:03] <juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-nn-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:03] <juliank> oh that's not there yet
[15:03] <juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-mm-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:03] <juliank> bug 2038807
[15:03] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2038807 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "/usr/libexec/packagekitd:6:g_assertion_message:g_assertion_message_expr:pk_transaction_dispose:pk_transaction_dispose:g_object_unref" [High, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2038807
[15:04] <juliank> I'll go tag this and ping some people if they have insight
[15:04] <bdmurray> We were waiting for you to look at it.
[15:05] <juliank> Yes and I want to talk to upstream :)
[15:05] <juliank> Maybe they fixed it already?
[15:05] <juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ll-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:05] <juliank> empty
[15:05] <juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-jj-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:05] <vorlon> really nothing else in incoming for mantic? huh
[15:05] <dbungert> I had one I wanted to discuss for NN - LP: #2040481
[15:05] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2040481 in subiquity "Cannot install Jammy server on machine using pppoe connection to access internet" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2040481
[15:06] <bdmurray> Well there is this upgrade bug... ;-)
[15:06] <vorlon> yeah but it's not incoming, it just needs sponsorship
[15:06] <juliank> bug 2037667
[15:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 2037667 in linux (Ubuntu Jammy) "Regression on Jammy's kernel 5.15 when creating ip6gre and vti6 tunnels" [High, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2037667
[15:06] <juliank> seems a kernel bug
[15:06] <juliank> ah no a systemd-networkd bug
[15:07] <slyon> juliank: well.. kernel wants systemd to be investigated
[15:07] <juliank> or collision of bugs :)
[15:07] <slyon> basically, kernel increased validation for gre tunnels, which makes (old) systemd-networkd fail. Passes on newer systemd-networkd
[15:07] <slyon> they wanted us (enr0n?) to investigate if the corresponding networkd fix could be backported
[15:07] <juliank> Sounds reasonable
[15:07] <juliank> enr0n: Can you investigate that?
[15:08] <enr0n> juliank: sure, can do
[15:08] <slyon> I can help with spotting the relevant systemd commits. Didn't have time to do that today
[15:09] <juliank> -ff is empty
[15:13] <juliank> we'll be right back here :D
[15:14] <juliank> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:14] <juliank> #link https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[15:14] <juliank> this is weird
[15:15] <vorlon> it's correct and based on noble
[15:16] <juliank> I guess nothing is late yet :D
[15:16] <vorlon> openjdk-17 is ftbfs on riscv64
[15:16] <vorlon> with no build log because riscv64 is sad
[15:16] <vorlon> so I've retried it now
[15:16] <juliank> hooray
[15:16] <vorlon> nothing else here
[15:16] <juliank> #topic AOB
[15:16] <dbungert> I had one I wanted to discuss for NN - LP: #2040481
[15:16] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2040481 in subiquity "Cannot install Jammy server on machine using pppoe connection to access internet" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2040481
[15:17] <dbungert> I'm wondering if that ppp package should be in the pool
[15:17] <juliank> does subiquity support setting this up?
[15:17] <dbungert> no
[15:17] <dbungert> so you could do an offline install, but I'm not sure what the plan would be to eventually get it online
[15:17] <juliank> I guess you want to do ubuntu-drivers stuff to auto-install that if modem detected
[15:18] <vorlon> historically it's in the pool so you have it available offline and worst case can manually install it
[15:18] <juliank> like other driver packages?
[15:18] <juliank> but yeah including in the pool for manual bootstrap is enough
[15:18] <juliank> go for it!
[15:18] <juliank> reassign to um ubuntu-meta?
[15:19] <dbungert> I think that makes sense, thanks
[15:19] <vorlon> fwiw my Ubuntu Internet gateway uses pppoe on top of netplan, but I had to do all the pppoe myself :)
[15:20] <juliank> vorlon wanted to discuss dpkg misbuilt compiler flags buig
[15:20] <juliank> * bug
[15:20] <vorlon> yes, LP: #2040518
[15:20] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2040518 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg 1.22.0ubuntu1 breaking changes" [Undecided, Won't Fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2040518
[15:20] <vorlon> so as I mentioned to juliank, the correct dpkg status is 'wontfix' because we don't want to change dpkg behavior
[15:20] <adrien> vorlon: I'm curious as to how you're doing that because I should install a new gateway/server in a few weeks or months
[15:20] <vorlon> but this is something that needs attention for noble
[15:20] <adrien> (this is for another time of course :) )
[15:20] <vorlon> adrien: networkd-dispatcher!
[15:21] <slyon> adrien: see bug #1769034
[15:21] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 1769034 in netplan "Problems configuring pppoe when using netplan" [Wishlist, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769034
[15:21] <adrien> thanks!
[15:21] <vorlon> so we need to get this in the queue for noble as a high priority. juliank should I just set the bug back to triaged on dpkg for now?
[15:21] <vorlon> or do we want to pull it in as a jira card manually
[15:21] <juliank> Better file a jira epic and add tasks to that
[15:22] <juliank> Don't want all packages / the overarching thing in a single jira bug issue
[15:22] <juliank> (because then individual bugs would be annoying to handle)
[15:23] <juliank> epic to fix regressions, with spike to identify them?
[15:23] <vorlon> and since this is off roadmap what am I doing with that epic to make sure it gets prioritized :)
[15:23] <vorlon> +spike
[15:24] <juliank> put spike in the next pulse and bug people?
[15:24] <vorlon> k
[15:24] <vorlon> I'll follow through on that then, thanks
[15:25] <juliank> ta!
[15:25] <juliank> any other business?
[15:25] <adrien> I have another topic: for my openssl SRU there's a fix for default encryption parameters in openssl for blowfish ocb
[15:25] <bdrung> I like to suggest to look at the top entries on https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2023.10&user=foundations-bugs&period=week
[15:26] <adrien> the issue introduces an incompatibility between everything else and jammy
[15:26] <bdmurray> bdrung: on a regular basis ideally
[15:26] <adrien> fixing it will however introduce an incompatibility between jammy-before-the-fix and jammy-after-the-fix
[15:27] <juliank> hmm
[15:27] <juliank> adrien: how important is blowfish in practice?
[15:27] <adrien> reason to fix: get compat back; reason not to fix: incompat for files created before the update and read after the update
[15:27] <schopin> that'd be bug 1990216
[15:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Bug 1990216 in openssl (Ubuntu Jammy) "backport fix for 'OpenSSL 3 cannot decrypt data encrypted with OpenSSL 1.1 with blowfish in OFB or CFB modes' to Jammy" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1990216
[15:27] <juliank> I'm more worried about regressions in the release
[15:27] <adrien> I think fairly few people use it and people who use it probably shouldn't use it anymore (if only for its low speed)
[15:28] <juliank> I agree with schopin's comment I think
[15:29] <juliank> But I feel I don't have full context
[15:29] <adrien> and we couldn't find an objective way/metric/whatever to decide whether we should try to include such a change or not
[15:29] <adrien> is there anything specific you think you're missing?
[15:30] <juliank> I don't grok the bug fully yet
[15:30] <vorlon> adrien: is this an SRU that's already in the queue?
[15:31] <vorlon> this is the sort of thing you will certainly need to get feedback specifically from the SRU team on
[15:32] <adrien> vorlon: no, ad we dropped that specific change from the upcoming SRU
[15:32] <vorlon> my gut reaction is "oops we broke compatibility with older stuff; but it's been in the stable release for 1.5y so it is what it is"
[15:32] <vorlon> which seems to be the way you're leaning
[15:35] <slyon> discourse is back up: feel free to paste your weekly status reports: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/foundations-team-updates-thursday-26-oct-2023/39759
[15:35] <schopin> damnit, now I'm going to have to write it up!
[15:35] <vorlon> oh damn ^^ that
[15:35] <vorlon> I thought I was off the hook! :)
[15:44] <juliank> #endmeeting
[15:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:44:33 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-10-26-15.02.moin.txt


[00:27] <yaohai> ?
[05:43] <seraphim> ello
 Hey folks... can any tell me why I get a Green Circle when i press the 'equals' sign on my Keyboard?  It seems to follow my mouse, slowly... : https://irc-attachments.kde.org/3b5f6287/file_65544.jpg
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:16] <user|72> Need help. On kubuntu Kubuntu 23.04. Everytime I log into my account system settings autostarts (not really a problem but it isn't set to do that). However, if I close the settings I cannot open them again without logging off and then back on.
 how to disable USB Power Saving in kubuntu 22.04
, try with powertop.
 hey , i want to connect a ubuntu from my ubuntu via vnc
[22:45] <tweak> hi all. been trying for a week to troubleshoot 2 keyboard issues on an HP laptop. 1. can't get the mute button (f6) LED light to work at all. 2. Numlock for sddm i can't get to work either, even with numlockx.
[23:03] <caffwy> .


[00:05] <frank> hello, does anyone know how to find the desktop effects in natty narwal?
[00:09] <TheMuso> frank: What desktop effects are you looking for?
[00:12] <frank> the ones that make my windows go wobbly for instance
[00:27]  * maco branches ubiquity
[00:28] <TheMuso> Gah he leaves... *sigh*
[00:29] <TheMuso> maco: If we are unable to get these done for Natty, I know it would be useful to get them into Vinux.
[00:42] <maco> TheMuso: there should be a tutorial for this
[00:44] <maco> TheMuso: have you played with this before? i'm a bit confused with doing this programmatically instead of in the glade file
[00:44] <TheMuso> Quick question for people currently in here. With the accessibility profiles, do you think its safe to assume that any new users created on an installed system should also have accessibility enabled?
[00:45] <TheMuso> maco: Sorry I haven't.
[00:46] <TheMuso> I am working with a patch from a regular contributor who thinks that any new user accounts that are created will want various accessibility bits enabled for their account.
[00:46] <maco> oh i found the wiki page i had up earlier
[00:46] <maco> http://live.gnome.org/GAP/AtkGuide#GAP.2BAC8-AtkGuide.2BAC8-GtkAtk.Using_GTK.2B-_and_ATK_to_Build_Accessible_Applications  <--
[02:15] <maco> TheMuso: how do you use orca?
[02:15] <maco> i'm confused
[02:16] <maco> i'm trying to run ubiquity locally (and just not do the apply step) with orca to test, but orca isn't reading the ubiquity window at all
[02:16] <TheMuso> maco: What do you mean?
[02:16] <TheMuso> You need to enable accessibility for a start.
[02:16] <TheMuso> And restart your session.
[02:16] <maco> oh.
[02:16] <TheMuso> And if you are running ubiquity in a KDE session, not everything is correctly set up.
[02:16] <maco> i installed ubiquity-frontend-gtk
[02:17] <TheMuso> Right.
[02:22]  * maco sets up a vm
[02:40]  * maco scowls
[02:40] <maco> at-spi crashed while running that test
[02:40] <maco> and quitting orca doesn't quit it
[02:41] <maco> it asks are you sure, and if you click cancel, the "are you sure?" window closes and orca keeps running. if you click "quit" it does nothing
[02:41] <maco> hmm or maybe it just takes forever
[02:43] <TheMuso> Orca should quit when you click quit.
[02:45] <maco> it apparently quits after a lag
[02:46] <maco> wow, its really annoying using apt-get with orca running
[02:46] <TheMuso> Disable speech with insert + s
[02:46] <TheMuso> Then re-enable it with the same keystroke.
[02:54] <maco> TheMuso: thank you
[02:54] <TheMuso> np
[03:09] <maco> it apparently doesnt show the partition stepif you're on an empty disk.
[03:29] <TheMuso> right
[03:29] <TheMuso> maco: Does it totally freeze, or does it ask something different?
[03:30] <maco> TheMuso: skips it
[03:31] <TheMuso> ah ok
[03:33] <maco> my first attempted-patch was to make the labels (instead of radio button id's) be read for the radio buttons on the partition page. so i need to actually have it come up ;-)
[03:56] <TheMuso> Right.
[04:25] <maco> TheMuso: so, programmatically, there ARE accelerators for Forward/Back -- i can see them now that gtk has failed to use a proper theme
[04:25] <maco> when it looks like Windows 98, i can see that there are accelerators
[04:25] <maco> (and they work)
[04:32] <TheMuso> Heh wonderful.
[04:34] <maco> TheMuso: im having a lot of trouble with testing. at-spi keeps crashing
[04:35] <maco> hmm wait maybe this is my fault
[04:35] <TheMuso> Thats weird, I don't ever get crashes here.
[04:35] <maco> well, at-spi-registryd becomes non-responsive, and i never get the partition screen
[04:35] <TheMuso> right
[04:35] <maco> (im using today's daily live image)
[04:35] <TheMuso> Sounds like ubiquity is doing something funky.
[04:36] <TheMuso> How are you running ubiquity?
[04:36] <maco> from the terminal
[04:36] <TheMuso> Ok, are you running it with gksu?
[04:36] <TheMuso> I think its trying to get root privs but can't.
[04:37] <maco> oooh could try
[04:37] <TheMuso> maco: It may also be worth running with the blindness a11y profile, as that will completely set things up such that things should work/
[04:37] <TheMuso> i.e boot the image using an a11y profile, and then run ubiquity using gksu.
[04:37] <maco> i did boot with the screen reader option
[04:37] <TheMuso> Hrm ok, so trying with gksu/root privs is the next option.
[04:37] <TheMuso> As ubiquity needs it.
[04:38] <maco> i used gksu this time, and it still went language, "get updates from internet?", time zone, keyboard...
[04:39] <maco> it should have asked about partitioning before the timezone stuff i think
[04:40] <TheMuso> Yes it shoudl have. Is the disk you are trying to use pre-partitioned, or empty?
[04:40] <maco> it should have an existing partition
[04:40] <TheMuso> Right.
[04:40] <TheMuso> Let me grab the latest daily, and have a squiz myself.
[04:40] <maco> because im booting the iso over top of a maverick vm
[04:40] <maco> its possible my changes just broke that .py and it fails silently
[04:41] <maco> but i dont know how to make it fail LOUDLY
[04:42]  * maco wonders if python has anything like "perl -c"
[04:43] <TheMuso> I don't know.
[04:54] <maco> oh i see. the little underlines for accelerators appear only when you hold down alt
[04:57] <TheMuso> I disagree with that personally.
[05:04] <maco> TheMuso: since thats no use if you cant see it happen?
[05:06] <TheMuso> maco: No, for those who want to use them need to visually rpes a key before they know what they are.
[05:09] <Nafai> dang it.  was there a meeting today?
[05:09] <maco> yes
[05:13] <TheMuso> Nafai: You didn't miss much.
[05:15] <maco> TheMuso: its gotta be something about my changes
[05:15] <maco> bcause i just tried it in a vm unmodified and it came up
[05:16] <maco> though orca got silent after the first page, oddly
[05:16]  * maco headdesk
[05:16] <maco> i wonder if i just need to "import atk" ...
[05:17] <maco> (and at-spi still crashed with my unmodified version)
[05:18] <Nafai> TheMuso: Ok.  I meant to be here, but I was sleeping. :)
[05:21] <TheMuso> maco: Could I see your changes? I think there are atk calls in the pygtk bindings but not entirely sure.
[05:21] <maco> TheMuso: http://paste.ubuntu.com/590532 has the chunk i was adding in to ubiquity/plugins/ubi-partman.py
[05:21] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks.
[05:22] <maco> (and adding "import atk" didnt help)
[05:22] <maco> putting that chunk in still kills that page
[05:22] <TheMuso> maco: What does self refer to in this context?
[05:22] <TheMuso> maco: Actually, there may be debugging in /var/log/installer/debug or one of the other files in that directory.
[05:23] <maco> TheMuso: the page
[05:23] <TheMuso> maco: ok
[05:24] <maco> oooh hey yes it DOES have debugging there! thank you
[05:24] <TheMuso> np
[05:26] <maco> hmm and the debug log is saying invalid syntax at line 148...which is a few lines after my changes. so maybe i messed up parentheses or something
[05:28] <maco> ...and there are .pyc files. i hate .pyc files. they destroy debugability what with their persistence beyond my changes -_-
[05:29] <TheMuso> heh
[05:29] <TheMuso> I agree.
[05:31]  * TheMuso regrets deleting his ubiquity branch. It takes ages to download again, particularly over an international connection that has been slow to Aus recently...
[05:31] <maco> YAY
[05:32] <maco> oh wait dang. this is with my stuff commented
[05:32] <maco> well. now that ive sorted out the steps required (rm .pyc, then gksu ubiquity, then tail /var/log/installer/debug) maybe i can figure out why my code go boom
[05:34]  * maco headdesk
[05:34] <maco> no "could not import module..." errors this time like before
[05:34] <maco> but again it doesnt show
[05:35] <maco> if its fine with my syntax, why is it ignoring the entire file? -_-
[05:36] <TheMuso> maco: I'd get the original and your modified version and get a unified diff.
[05:37] <TheMuso> I always find unified diffs to help me work out what may be going on.
[05:37] <maco> TheMuso: my modifications are just that one chunk of lines being inserted...the context around it isn't very helpful
[05:37] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:38] <maco> know a way to run it interactively?
[05:39] <TheMuso> No, my python skills are still very much undeveloped.
[05:39] <TheMuso> Someone in ubuntu-dev or a python channel would know for sure.
[05:42] <maco> heyyy progress
[05:42] <TheMuso> maco: One thing I don't understand with your fragment is why you think the atk functions are addressable from the self object... I would think you want to get them from the gtk object...
[05:42] <TheMuso> maco: oooh whats the problem?
[05:43] <maco> i commented out all but one radio button's-worth and that still failed so then i commented out the two lines of that button's code that use atk relationships and the page is now showing
[05:43] <maco> so the .get_accessible()'s are at least working
[05:44] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:44] <maco> and to answer that:
[05:44] <TheMuso> I think you only need one relationship, i.e label for, or labelled by,.
[05:44] <maco> the docs im reading show both in use, but i could try just commenting one
[05:44] <maco> self.atk_resize_use_free = self.resize_use_free.get_accessible()     <--- .get_accessible() returns an atk.Object
[05:44] <maco> so my self.atk_resize_use_free is of type atk.Object
[05:45] <TheMuso> ah ok
[05:45] <TheMuso> that makes sense.
[05:46] <maco> ok so commenting one and leaving the other goes back to it being invisible
[05:46] <TheMuso> Right...
[05:46] <maco> atk.RELATION_LABEL_FOR  <-- im guessing this constant is having a problem
[05:47] <maco> well the atk relation constants in general
[05:47] <maco> or maybe im just using add_relation() wrong. i only saw a C example of that one
[05:47] <TheMuso> hrm.
[05:47] <TheMuso> Worth digging throught eh pygtk bindings I think
[05:47] <TheMuso> the
[05:50] <TheMuso> maco: There is a piece of example code in the python gtk2 source: Let me pastebin it.
[05:50] <maco> i think i found it
[05:50] <TheMuso> maco: http://paste.ubuntu.com/590579/
[05:50] <maco> add_relationship() not add_relation() ...
[05:50] <TheMuso> maco: Right but I think you should look at that code, as it deals with relation sets.
[05:51]  * hajour is going to uds in may :))
[05:51] <maco> it works!
[05:52] <TheMuso> maco: sweet.
[05:52] <TheMuso> hajour: Congratulations!
[05:52] <hajour> ye still not can believe it :)
[05:52] <hajour> just have read the mail
[05:52] <UndiFineD> http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-04-06-21.01.moin.txt
[05:52] <hajour> and thank you
[05:53]  * UndiFineD looks jealously at hajour
[05:53] <UndiFineD> congratulations my dear
[05:55] <hajour> :) hehe thank you my dear
[05:58] <maco> TheMuso: ok so its less sucky but still not right. its reading the label (yay!) but also still reading the variable name for the radio button (boo!)
[05:58] <hajour> btw that will not go be  a habit. XD saying nicknames in chat
[05:59] <TheMuso> maco: Probably best to set the atk name for the radio button. I am guessing something like in the example I pastebinned above.
[06:00] <hajour> btw already got a nice nick name her in chat hajour
[06:00] <TheMuso> So self.radiobuttonblah.set_name("Name of radio button")
[06:02] <hajour> ok i go have some breakfast then sleep and reading logs again :)
[06:23] <maco> TheMuso: what im seeing happen now is that when i get to that page it reads the first one's label twice, then the radio button id. if i move to another radio button or back to it, labels are read once then the radio button id. im not sure why it's doubling or why its reading the id afterward, but adding    self.atk_resize_use_free.set_name(self.resize_use_free.get_text())     doesn't make it stop reading the id
[06:31] <TheMuso> maco: I am looking through glade now, and this can all be done in glade, assigning the label for something etc.
[06:31]  * TheMuso digs up the ui file for the partitioning page.
[06:31] <maco> TheMuso: translations...
[06:31] <maco> doing it in glade means hardcoding it in english
[06:32] <maco> also, some of them make glade throw an error and refuse to open
[06:32] <TheMuso> maco: I am sure glade allows for translations. But I was thinking assigning the label for and label by stuff
[06:32] <TheMuso> hrm interesting.
[06:32] <maco> i hit the same thing as Riddell here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/12/%23ubuntu-installer.txt
[06:33] <maco> he said try installing ubiquity and ubiquity-frontend-gtk to get the gtkwidgets thing it's looking for, but that didnt improve the situatoin
[06:33] <TheMuso> yup see what you mean.
[06:34] <maco> oh i see where you can set the labelled by / label for stuff in glade
[06:34] <maco> do you think setting it in glade versus programmatically will change whether orca reads the id afterward?
[06:35] <TheMuso> Not sure, as I've never actually played with this myself.
[06:35] <maco> ah ok yeah glade lets you set a "translateable" checkbox for the accessible name
[06:35] <maco> we're past translation freeze though
[06:36] <TheMuso> Yeah, but why Orca is not considering the text on screen I don't know.
[06:36] <maco> if it's the same as the label, will the po do magic and make the translations match?
[06:36] <maco> oh no, orca IS considering the text on the screen
[06:36] <maco> i got it to do that
[06:36] <TheMuso> So what is the remaining problem?
[06:36] <maco> its just that its ALSO readin the variable name afterwad
[06:36] <TheMuso> maco: You might want to install accerciser into the environment, and have a look in accerciser to see what Orca is seeing...
[06:41] <TheMuso> maco: Seems the gtkwidgets.xml file has a hard-coded path in it.
[06:42] <TheMuso> Whats worse, is that the UI for ubiquity will need to be ported to pigi for oneiric.
[06:46] <TheMuso> hrm no difference.
[06:48] <maco> accerciser doesnt even see that there's a ubiquity window
[06:48] <maco> if i try running accerciser with gksu it crashes
[06:48] <TheMuso> Probably because the ubiquity window is running as root.
[06:48] <TheMuso> Lovely.
[06:49] <TheMuso> I wonder if its possible to check what user the GUI thread is running as.
[06:50] <maco> it's bedtime here
[06:50] <TheMuso> np thanks for doing as much as you have.
[06:50] <maco> so far i can at least get it to read the stuff it needs to read, if not stfu about the stuff it doesnt
[06:50] <TheMuso> Right.
[06:50] <maco> thats at lp:~maco.m/ubiquity/bug749653
[06:50] <TheMuso> ooh thanks.
[06:55]  * TheMuso decides to package it up and try it out.
[06:57] <maco> i looked a little into where the titles of the pages are coming from, but im not sure how to get it to read them. it seems like maybe this is like when you  have ajax and need commands telling the screenreader "hey look i updated something! go read it!"
[06:58]  * AlanBell hugs maco again
[06:58] <AlanBell> awesome work so far
[06:59] <maco> TheMuso: when the pigi thing happens can the ubiquity devs be convinced to put the atk hints in *the first time*?
[07:00] <TheMuso> maco: Yes, I'll make sure of that, however I think they will be using .ui files again, just changing the code in python, but yes, I'll make a point of getting that checked out.
[07:00] <TheMuso> maco: Actually, even better, lets have an installer accessibility review at UDS. :)
[07:01] <TheMuso> As for the titles, Orca may need to do a little scrounging around itself for those.
[08:31] <leoquant> hello erkan^
[08:39] <jussi> !test
[08:39] <jussi> ok, so thats a temporary bot for you. please alert myself or tsimpson when your regular bot gets back
[08:45] <UndiFineD> thanks jussi
[09:23] <AlanBell> hi ivanka
[09:24] <ivanka> hi AlanBell
[09:24] <AlanBell> so the ubuntu onscreen keyboard looks like this at the moment
[09:24] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/oldonboard.png
[09:24] <AlanBell> but I did some branding tweaks and mine looks like this now: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png
[09:25] <AlanBell> ivanka: do you think you could help with a UI freeze exception to get that in Natty?
[09:27]  * ivanka looks
[09:27] <AlanBell> and any feedback on colours and design would be great
[09:28] <ivanka> AlanBell: new definitely looks better and has better contrast
[09:29] <AlanBell> uses ubuntu font and some #dd4814
[09:29] <AlanBell> the pink bits are tones of the aubergine
[09:29] <AlanBell> and I added rounded corners
[09:29] <ivanka> AlanBell: marcus and otto aren't in yet. Will show to them and then hassle some people
[09:29] <AlanBell> thanks
[09:30] <ivanka> AlanBell: looks very nice :-)
[09:30] <AlanBell> the code is in https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard but I probably need to put it in a branch that isn't +junk
[09:31] <AlanBell> and I filed bug 751891
[09:31] <ivanka> AlanBell: have you pinged anyone about it? just so I can name names :-)
[09:32] <AlanBell> most people in here have seen it
[09:32] <AlanBell> I mentioned it in #ayatana too
[09:33] <UndiFineD> o/
[09:33] <AlanBell> I want the design team to pick this up as a brandable element of the platform
[09:38] <ivanka> AlanBell: makes a lot of sense but to warn you, UI exceptions are getting harder and harder.
[09:38] <ivanka> AlanBell: that won't stop me trying though as this does look much much better
[09:41] <JanC> it's not like Onboard is in a lot of screenshots, I think, and the rest is sort of a themeing tweak?
[09:49] <UndiFineD> JanC, I doubt any exist for onboard on natty in the wild, and even those for maverick may be rare
[09:50] <AlanBell> people are taking screenshots
[09:50] <AlanBell> akgraner is working on the next version of the official ubuntu book for example
[09:53] <UndiFineD> my first hit is on someone who replace onboard by something else on 10.10 spinoff
[09:53] <AlanBell> however, looking at the 5th edition of the book I see no screenshot of onboard
[09:54] <AlanBell> and very very little on a11y at all
[09:54] <UndiFineD> the second valid hit: sept 25th 2010: http://ubuntuguide.net/onboardenable-simple-on-screen-keyboard-for-ubuntu-gnome
[09:54] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: the UI freeze concern is mainly about people writing books and manuals to be published soon after release
[09:55] <UndiFineD> well I am in some of those teams, #ubuntu-manual has just appointed their new people
[09:55] <ivanka> AlanBell: Yes, am aware of that
[09:55] <ivanka> AlanBell: just looking with otto
[09:55] <UndiFineD> #ubuntu-tour is very inactive
[09:56] <ivanka> AlanBell: wondering if we have enough contrast, this being primarily for accessibility?
[09:57] <UndiFineD> it could be used by anyone without a keyboard attached
[09:58] <ivanka> AlanBell: how valuable is the colour coding? I am wondering if it should just be white keys with black/very dark text?
[09:59] <ivanka> AlanBell: the rounding is all good
[10:01] <AlanBell> ivanka: not really too sure about the value of the colour coding, I did make sure the main keys were the highest contrast, followed by the numbers
[10:01] <UndiFineD> I am not sure it is fully valid according to the WCAG standards, but it looks very usable to me
[10:01] <AlanBell> shift and space don't need contrast so have the boldest colours
[10:02] <AlanBell> the orange and aubergine on the right bring up overlay layers for symbols and other stuff
[10:02] <AlanBell> I changed the opacity of them a bit
[10:03] <AlanBell> ivanka: it is for accessibility, but I want it also to be useful for tablet PCs and touchscreens
[10:03] <AlanBell> because then more people will maintain it
[10:04] <ivanka> AlanBell: all good points
[13:02] <AlanBell> hi all
[13:03] <AlanBell> if people could be around in about 24 hours from now that would be great
[13:04] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that was a bit vague...
[13:04] <AlanBell> the ubuntu.com web team want to share some new designs with us to get feedback from an a11y perspective
[13:04] <Pendulum> I suspect it is too early for charlie-tca, but I'll try to be here
[13:04] <Pendulum> can you e-mail the list?
[13:07] <AlanBell> I will ask yaili to do that when she picks a time
[13:07] <Pendulum> AlanBell: great, thanks :)
[13:07] <Pendulum> hi ivanka :)
[13:07] <ivanka> hi pendulum
[13:45] <Pendulum> AlanBell: you have access to approving blog comments, right?
[13:45] <AlanBell> yup
[13:46] <Pendulum> can you look at the most recent one? I don't quite know what it's talking about so I haven't approved it, but I'm wondering if it relates to one of your bugs
[13:46] <Pendulum> (feel free to approve it if it does)
[13:46] <AlanBell> I approved it already and it does
[13:46] <Pendulum> ah, okay :)
[13:47] <AlanBell> it related to me being confused by the map bit in the installer
[13:47] <AlanBell> it is a bit odd if you are using just the keyboard
[13:47] <Pendulum> ah
[14:23] <AlanBell> o/ joanmarie
[14:23] <joanmarie> \o
[14:24] <joanmarie> dutchie: ping and hi
[14:28] <dutchie> hello?
[14:28] <joanmarie> Well, I'm about to go into a meeting. But dutchie if you are interested in a collaborator on the Simon persona, I'd love to help. My DayJob is 15 years (and counting) as an instructor and consultant teaching individuals who are blind or visually impaired (ages 3 - seniors)
[14:28] <dutchie> ooh, that might be nice
[14:29] <joanmarie> up to you
[14:29] <dutchie> i haven't had any time to work on it due to university :(
[14:29] <joanmarie> I don't like to interfere
[14:29] <joanmarie> But it might be fun to help
[14:29] <joanmarie> btw I'm also the Orca project lead
[14:32]  * AlanBell wonders what joanmarie thinks about bug 749700
[14:32] <joanmarie> I will look after the meeting
[14:37] <joanmarie> Well, given my time-telling challenges, lemme look at that bug now AlanBell :-)
[14:52] <joanmarie> AlanBell: bug commented upon
[14:54] <hajour> AlanBell, are there differences in colour by the numbers and fonts.i am not sure you see. by this >>>   http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png
[14:54] <hajour> looks very nice btw AlanBell
[14:56] <leoquant> thats a board i would like to have
[14:57] <hajour> yes that's nice thought that board
[14:57] <leoquant> page -up and down -button would be nice for me
[14:57] <hajour> and function buttons
[14:57] <leoquant> no more double tabbing the buttons: uujkkj
[14:57] <leoquant> gf
[14:57] <leoquant> lk
[14:58] <hajour> a i have the same problem if i use my left hand double tabbing
[14:59] <hajour> also i cant use it only very short time my left hand
[14:59] <hajour> cant=can
[14:59] <joanmarie> so is the reason Caribou is not being used compatibiliy issues with Unity, or stability issues, or something else?
[15:00] <joanmarie> mind you I like the bigger buttons on that screen shot as I have hand tremors and my aim is lousy
[15:02] <joanmarie> anyway dutchie my address is joanied at gnome dot org. If you would like input/collaboration, ping me that way and/or via irc (I'm either joanie or joanmarie)
[15:04] <AlanBell> leoquant: page up and page down are behind the orange overlay
[15:04] <AlanBell> leoquant: just try running onboard, you have it installed already
[15:05] <AlanBell> !info caribou
[15:05] <hajour> and is there difference in colour in numbers and fonts ?
[15:05]  * hajour is wondering about that
[15:06] <AlanBell> the numbers are a different colour to the keys
[15:06] <AlanBell> but only because I made them slightly different
[15:07] <hajour> mm ok . i was doubting about that
[15:07] <joanmarie> AlanBell: This page is out of date, but https://live.gnome.org/Caribou
[15:07] <AlanBell> joanmarie: I have never used caribou, onboard is in the repos and is installed by default on the CD
[15:07] <joanmarie> code is here: http://git.gnome.org/browse/caribou
[15:07]  * hajour have learned last weeks more English words :)
[15:07] <joanmarie> fair enough
[15:07] <AlanBell> it certainly isn't due to compatibility with unity, onboard isn't entirely compatible :(
[15:08] <joanmarie> ugh
[15:09] <hajour> btw who more go to uds from accessibility ? just curious :)
[15:09] <joanmarie> I'd be interested to find out if Caribou is.
[15:09] <AlanBell> so would I
[15:09] <joanmarie> Just today there was an interesting bug filed
[15:09] <AlanBell> I suspect not
[15:09]  * joanmarie looks for it
[15:09] <hajour> hee charlie-tca
[15:09] <joanmarie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646980
[15:09] <AlanBell> the problem is the way unity draws itself kind of outside or over the top of compiz
[15:10] <joanmarie> The implication being that a full separation should, I'd think, make it possible for a nux(?) caribou
[15:10] <joanmarie> i.e. it would look more incorporated
[15:10] <AlanBell> I just wanted to make onboard a bit more shiny and pretty so that the unity people will pick it up and incorporate it
[15:10] <hajour> o sorry if i am still a bit much switch fast often from subject.meds not yet full work
[15:10] <joanmarie> As I stated in that bug, we're doing something in that direction for Orca
[15:11] <joanmarie> so we "look native" wherever we are
[15:11] <AlanBell> interesting
[15:11] <joanmarie> I may do a proof of concept using Nux. Depends on my time and what the learning curve is
[15:11] <AlanBell> one thing I would like to do with orca is get an easy to install nicer voice
[15:12] <joanmarie> You know what...
[15:12] <AlanBell> which is more of a speech dispatcher thing really
[15:12] <joanmarie> The Andalucían government did some really nice work on the Spanish voices in Festival
[15:12] <joanmarie> they are my favorite voices now
[15:12] <joanmarie> alas, not english
[15:12] <joanmarie> but I wonder what exactly it was they did
[15:13] <joanmarie> and then the next question would be: What would it take to cause that work to happen in the other Festival voices
[15:13] <joanmarie> it is my understanding that Festival works with speech-dispatcher
[15:13] <AlanBell> it does
[15:13] <hajour> maybe they have slow or faster the voice joanmarie ?
[15:13] <AlanBell> openmary has some awesome voices too
[15:13] <hajour> see AlanBell
[15:14] <joanmarie> hajour: I don't follow?
[15:14] <paul_h> we need a proper speech-dispatcher module for the swift voices too
[15:14] <dutchie> joanmarie: will do, thanks
[15:14] <joanmarie> I mean, the voices all can be made slower or faster
[15:14] <joanmarie> paul_h: hey, we're in all the same places :-)
[15:14] <hajour> The Andalucían government did some really nice work on the Spanish voices in Festival
 they are my favorite voices now
 alas, not english
[15:14] <joanmarie> the problem with swift is that, well, when it's swift it doesn't sound good
[15:14] <joanmarie> hajour: right. That's not a speed issue
[15:15] <joanmarie> you have to listen to their custom voices
[15:15] <hajour> i am not a dev joanmarie
[15:15] <joanmarie> but they just sound more natural
[15:15] <joanmarie> that's okay
[15:15] <joanmarie> you don't have to be
[15:15] <joanmarie> if you are able to hear the voices, just compare what they did with the normal spanish voices
[15:15] <hajour> i just in IRC IT world from date 30 nov. 2010
[15:15] <joanmarie> theirs are way, way better
[15:16] <AlanBell> paul_h: got a link to info about the swift voices?
[15:16] <hajour> i just know that the voices from open mary where made much improved by AlanBell
[15:16] <AlanBell> the default orca voice would remain espeak as that is titchy and will go on the CD
[15:17] <joanmarie> titchy?
[15:17] <AlanBell> small
[15:17] <joanmarie> ah
[15:17] <hajour> a new word learned
[15:18] <joanmarie> for me too
[15:18] <AlanBell> voices can take up a lot of disk space
[15:18] <paul_h> AlanBell: www.cepstral.com
[15:19] <AlanBell> nice, thanks
[15:19] <hajour> i wait till this is subject is ready else it will go be some confusing i think
[15:20] <paul_h> the "eloquence" voice windows users like doesn't appear to be for sale for linux anymore
[15:21] <hajour> ? paul_h ?
[15:21] <hajour> is eloquence a name ?
[15:22] <joanmarie> paul_h: well, the equivalent is voxin. The problem as I understand it, is that while they sell it, they are not doing much (if any) development.
[15:22] <paul_h> Joanie: no, they're not selling it anymore
[15:23] <joanmarie> hajour: Eloquence is the name of a windows synthesizer used by (among other software) the leading commercial windows screen reader
[15:24] <hajour> a ok thanks joanmarie
[15:24] <joanmarie> paul_h: huh. I see that on their site. Missed the announcement (obviously)
[15:24] <joanmarie> oh well, it had those crasher issues Eloquence had from years back. :-/
[15:25] <hajour> just want to note something.that the primary schools 18 of them are hanging on the accessibility part for to go use edubuntu/ubuntu
[15:26] <leoquant> AlanBell, I am busy with my health insurrance for additional hardware/keyboards/even computers. so i would like "onboard" as a hardware product!
[15:26] <hajour> netherlands primary schools
[15:28] <hajour> because netherland is eager to get children whit issues to hold on normal schools so much they can
[15:28] <hajour> was just to inform you all
[15:29] <hajour> if we got a good accessibility i can get at least 18 primary schools big change they go use edubuntu/ubuntu
[15:29] <hajour> for to start
[15:29] <joanmarie> hajour: That's cool. The Andalucían government in Spain has a similar interest for its citizens. As a result, they have been contributing to GNOME a11y projects.
[15:30] <joanmarie> When governments are interested and/or concerned, it can be a very good thing. :-)
[15:30] <joanmarie> It's too bad we don't see similar interest from more corporations.
[15:30] <hajour> yep if government will give the good example
[15:32] <hajour> joanmarie,  i cant fill in my tax forms from internet or either on paper because of very small fonts.the size cant go be increased.and there are also no audio to listen to for reading problems
[15:32] <joanmarie> ugh. That's not good. :-(
[15:32] <hajour> what i find very annoying
[15:33] <hajour> and that is a small part from it
[15:33] <hajour> its also by job sites from government and well fair
[15:34] <hajour> seams me government have to let see a good example before to go pointing to others
[15:35] <hajour> what i will go tell them to
[15:38] <hajour> so i had called many times to them (tax office).last week i had get a letter if i not go fill in form from 2009 i get mm not know how to say in english. boete (pay money to them)because i am to late :S.so i called them whit again ask for help
[15:39] <hajour> then i can get help for 2010 but not for 2009 because i had called to late ?
[15:39] <hajour> i lost count on how many times i have called them in a year
[15:39] <hajour> so 2009 is still problem not solved
[15:40] <hajour> they asked or i was satisfied.i asked honest truth?
[15:40] <hajour> i feel very abandoned by government system
[15:41] <hajour> then she said annoyed you can fill  in on paper
[15:41] <hajour> i said ever seen how small that font s are.
[15:42] <hajour> she said its just normal fonts.i said yes.so do you think someone whit bad sight would be able to read it or dyslectic
[15:42] <hajour> silence
[15:43] <hajour> have a good day miss.
[15:43] <hajour> and she hang up
[15:44] <hajour> :(
[15:45] <hajour> so then that day i decided to hold a petition on europian lvl for to give government a good push in right direction to make internet program use accessible
[15:46] <hajour> and to go to brussel to give all assignments to IT and issues minister with press being around
[15:47] <hajour> and i will go stay nag and nag till they do something on it
[15:48] <hajour> so my new project was born.
[15:48] <hajour> sorry for flooding again btw
[15:49] <hajour> o charlie-tca i go to uds
[15:49] <charlie-tca> Great! Glad to hear it
[15:49] <hajour> just have seen in mail this morning for i was go to sleep
[15:49] <hajour> :)
[15:50] <JanC> who else is going from the a11y team?
[15:50] <hajour> i hope i will be able to help others
[15:50] <charlie-tca> It is a good thing to go to, when you can!
[15:50] <hajour> a11y team?
[15:50] <charlie-tca> That is the only one approved so far, I think
[15:51] <hajour> JanC,  you can write and read french write?
[15:51] <JanC> I can read French, but writing would probably contain errors  ☺
[15:52] <hajour> if i have the petition ready the letter all what is going to be send around.i want it in different languages
[15:52] <hajour> so many as possible
[15:52] <JanC> ah, best ask that to native speakers then
[15:54] <hajour> o btw you think it would be all-right if i go give the assignments in brussel i go invite minister from IC to the UDS what comes after the one from may
[15:54] <hajour> i know she is pro open source you see
[15:55] <hajour> hai jono :)
[15:55] <JanC> hajour: minister for IT-related things in the Netherlands?
[15:55] <hajour> minister kroese
[15:55] <JanC> what party is she from?
[15:55] <hajour> europian
[15:56] <jono> he hajour
[15:56] <leoquant> JanC, liberals
[15:56] <leoquant> (vvd)
[15:56] <JanC> oh, you mean Kroes, she's not a minister, but something similar indeed
[15:57] <hajour> she do all things on europian lvl
[15:57] <leoquant> kroes is an europolit.
[15:57] <hajour> yes
[15:58] <hajour> also the person from accessibility things i want invite then
[15:58] <hajour> from europe
[15:58] <JanC> I don't think she has time to attend a complete UDS, but it would already be some help if one of her assistants would come of course  ;)
[15:58] <hajour> kicking only against the low layer do not help
[15:58] <leoquant> she used to have anti-kartel portef.
[15:58] <hajour> yep
[15:59] <hajour> but i will go try she self will come
[15:59] <hajour> i talked to her 1 time she is very nice person
[15:59] <JanC> anyway, I think there are already laws about accessibility for the government...
[15:59] <hajour> yes but only on paper
[16:00] <hajour> in reality nothing happens
[16:00] <hajour> almost nothing
[16:01] <hajour> after years of meetings i want to see results
[16:01] <JanC> it would help if a major newspaper or TV station would shame them about this software
[16:01] <hajour> yes and UndiFineD  have worked for tv
[16:01] <hajour> i go use all contacts
[16:02] <hajour> he knows a lot of people there and trough them well just chain reaction
[16:03] <hajour> well cant help it if i have something in my mind i not have rest before i really have done it
[16:05] <hajour> btw i asked UndiFineD  if there was a meeting.but he said he thought there was no meeting.think he thought i really needed to sleep :P
[16:07] <JanC> hm, new earthquake in Japan?  :-/
[16:08] <hajour> uch really?
[16:09] <JanC> they just said in on the radio news
[16:10] <hajour> i almost never listen radio.much commercial.and the commercial is so very loud
[16:10] <hajour> hurts my ears
[16:11] <hajour> o btw i cant load the meeting log with chromium browser at all
[16:11] <JanC> we have radio stations with less commercial music, and radio 1 has lots of news & explanation about the news from 16-20h
[16:11] <hajour> from belgian or netherland?
[16:12] <JanC> explanations about the backgrounds behind the news
[16:12] <JanC> Flemish Radio 1
[16:12] <hajour> a ok
[16:13] <hajour> is that also trough internet?
[16:13] <hajour> i have not a radio you see
[16:15] <charlie-tca> 7.4 earthquake with a 1 meter tsunumi
[16:15] <JanC> 7.4 is a lot
[16:15] <charlie-tca> 1 meter tsunami (wave in the ocean)
[16:16] <hajour> mmm i hope there are not many victims
[16:16] <leoquant> :(
[16:17] <hajour> i hope also rx007 will be all-right
[16:17] <JanC> hajour: the Flemish public radio's streams are here: http://www.digitaleradio.be/dab/hoeluisteren/pc/help/Links_streams.html
[16:17] <hajour> a thank you JanC
[16:18] <JanC> if you like classical music, you can listen to Klara  ☺
[16:18] <hajour> JanC,  i cant load the accessibility log with chromium browser btw.i not yet tried with firefox yet
[16:18] <hajour> yes i like classical music
[16:19] <hajour> have played myself classical music for years before my hands started to nag
[16:20] <hajour> i played in harmony with clarinet
[16:20] <hajour> 16 years long
[16:21] <JanC> nice  ☺
[16:23] <JanC> is UndiFineD going to UDS too?
[16:24] <hajour> chakofsky , paganini,beethoven ,brams,stravinsky ect
[16:24] <hajour> no only me
[16:24] <Pendulum> hajour: congrats on UDS
[16:24] <hajour> thank you Pendulum :)
[16:24]  * Pendulum did not get sponsorship so will not be there
[16:25] <hajour> ? i thought you would get it honest say Pendulum
[16:25] <Pendulum> I've been to 2 and I suspect they wanted some new people
[16:26] <hajour> a ok
[16:26] <hajour> i hoped you would be there to.wanted to meet you :)
[16:26] <Pendulum> I'd really wanted to be there, but I guess it's not to be :)
[16:27] <hajour> i really learn much from you every time again
[16:28] <JanC> also, if they want to alternate between some people, they will probably prefer European people for European UDS & Northern-American people for American UDS ?
[16:29] <AlanBell> my understanding is that they don't really care about that
[16:29] <AlanBell> even though it would be logical
[16:29] <hajour> mm seams me it ould be good all from over the world meet each other would be a good thing
[16:29]  * Pendulum shrugs
[16:29] <hajour> would i meant
[16:29] <Pendulum> I probably can't do Orlando this year so on that side it doesn't really matter to me
[16:29] <JanC> there are peopel from all over the world anyway
[16:29] <hajour> ok
[16:30] <hajour> i am curious and nerves to go to uds
[16:31] <hajour> is there also go someone to there who speaks dutch like me .?
[16:31] <Pendulum> hajour: I don't know. You might want to ask in the dutch loco channels
[16:32] <hajour> i mean if i not know a subtend  word in english
[16:32] <hajour> bah surtend not know the right word
[16:32] <JanC> hm, Jelmer might go
[16:33] <hajour> ok i not yet have meet jelmer thought
[16:33] <JanC> not sure if thisfred will be there (from the UbuntuOne team at Canonical)
[16:35] <hajour> is jelmer thisfred or are that 2 different persons?
[16:36] <JanC> 2 different persons
[16:36] <JanC> jelmer is going
[16:37] <JanC> he's in #ubuntu-nl  ☺
[16:37] <hajour> but i have to help my daughter now with making pancakes have to tell here how to do some of the things
[16:37] <hajour> a ok is he there also in about a few hours from now?
[16:37] <hajour> i am in the channel now JanC
[16:41] <hajour> tot later
[16:41] <hajour> till later sorry
[16:42] <hajour> wrong language
[18:56] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: how early can you be up tomorrow?
[18:56] <charlie-tca> How early you want me to be?
[18:56] <Pendulum> AlanBell: ^^
[18:56] <Pendulum> we've got design team people who want to come in and talk tomorrow :)
[18:57] <Pendulum> about the website
[18:57] <charlie-tca> Not sure I am the best one for that.
[18:57] <Pendulum> I know
[18:58] <Pendulum> just thought you might have opinions on it
[18:58] <UndiFineD> which site
[18:59] <UndiFineD> or is this all ubuntu sites in general ?
[18:59] <charlie-tca> Of course I do, but ... :-(
[19:01] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: all the ubuntu sites
[19:01] <Pendulum>  think
[19:01] <Pendulum> I think
[19:02] <UndiFineD> ok, but in general none of the sites would fit accessibility, it is hard to be stylish and and accessible
[19:02] <UndiFineD> I have a good approach here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/SC/index.xhtml
[19:03] <UndiFineD> but it is close to the best one can do
[19:03] <charlie-tca> For starters, they could approve the theme AlanBell requested a long time ago
[19:04] <charlie-tca> Anytime it takes more than 6 months to make such a simple decision says you don't really care.
[19:05] <UndiFineD> yeah, I am taking it to the extreme, we want full AAA compliance
[19:06]  * UndiFineD is away for a moment
[19:17] <AlanBell> no, just about ubuntu.com
[19:20] <AlanBell> that was no to "all ubuntu sites in general"
[19:24] <Pendulum> AlanBell: do we have a time yet?
[19:25] <AlanBell> no
[19:25] <AlanBell> afternoon, London time
[19:25] <AlanBell> nothing more specific
[20:01] <hajour>  Message to #ubuntu-accessibility throttled due to flooding
[20:02] <hajour> well i not go explain  something again
[20:02] <hajour> i not go type for nothing
[20:02] <hajour> UndiFineD, said nothing was to see from it
[20:02] <hajour> bye
[20:03] <Pendulum> ?
[20:05] <AlanBell> there is no floodbot here
[20:06] <hajour> see message above
[20:06] <hajour> was to see in freenode this message
[20:08] <hajour> i cant use pastebin i cant link to see meetinglogs what are attached to chromium
[20:08] <hajour> because chromium is much to slow loading
[20:10] <hajour> so i had explained what issues where in netherlands internet and programs for accessibility thats the onnly thing i had type longh
[20:10] <hajour> like above
[20:10]  * hajour is go stop typing because else same will happen again
[20:13] <hajour> i go do something else till in about a hour. need a cooldown on the moment
[20:13] <leoquant> :P


[00:16] <bryce> tormod: uploaded
[00:17] <tormod> bryce: \o/
[00:17] <tormod> bryce: do you have an interest in laptop's acpi and friends?
[00:18] <bryce> not too much, but if you're looking for sponsoring I'm game
[00:18] <tormod> there's a related debdiff in 250938
[00:19] <tormod> not by me, but I can endorse it
[00:20] <tormod> there used to be mjg59 that maintained these things, and had his opinions, but he jumped ship I think
[00:21] <tormod> and things are poorly coordinated between pm-utils, acpi-support, laptop-mode-tools you name it
[00:22] <bryce> mm
[00:23] <bryce> maybe you'll become the new mjg59 ;-)
[00:23] <bryce> ok, so the debdiff in comment #1?
[00:27] <tormod> yes, there's only one :)
[00:29] <tormod> lately Alexey, ceg and some other guys started to look at this
[00:29] <bryce> tormod: uploaded
[00:29] <tormod> I think they will help testing out things thoroughly
[00:29] <tormod> great
[00:29] <bryce> cool
[00:29] <bryce> well I'll be happy to do review/upload support
[00:29] <tormod> maybe Intrepid will be _the_ laptop release :)
[00:29] <bryce> awesome :-)
[00:30] <bryce> btw, brian's switched from fglrx to -ati (maybe to help testing/verification?)
 bryyce: can you help me set the ati driver and glx or point me to documentation?
 sure, what do you need to set?
[00:31] <bryce>  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver seems reasonably accurate, starting from 'Ubuntu installation with AIGLX'
 bryyce: I'm having some issues with libGL
 Removing xorg-driver-fglrx ...
[00:31] <bryce>  dpkg-divert: rename involves overwriting `/usr/lib32/libGL.so.1' with different file `/usr/lib32/fglrx/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa', not allowed
 maybe  $ sudo apt-get install --reinstall libgl1-mesa-glx libgl1-mesa-dri
 same issue
 bryyce: I seem all squared away now
[00:32] <tormod> I say, never install fglrx in the first place :)
[00:33] <tormod> it's like syphilis
[00:33] <tormod> bryce, what about the radeon release with that M6 cherrypick?
[00:34] <bryce> which?
[00:34] <tormod> oh, I have this debdiff for SRU in bug #204483, can you review/triage/upload if you can
[00:35] <tormod> the M6 lockup is bug #148408
[00:36] <bryce> sure I'll take a look at it later.  Since alpha-4 soft-freeze is tomorrow I'm just focusing on intrepid uploads today
[00:38] <tormod> makes sense
[01:02] <tormod> bryce, I saw your acpi-support upload, but the laptop-mode-tools doesn't show up?
[01:09] <bryce> hmm, changes rejected
[01:09] <bryce> Unable to find laptop-mode-tools_1.45.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
[01:09] <bryce> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
[01:19] <bdmurray> bryce: I've an xserver lockup now, I was trying to check out openarena
[01:29] <tormod> bdmurray: what card do you have?
[01:30] <bdmurray> tormod: rv370 / x300se
[01:30] <bdmurray> I can't kill Xorg now either
[07:40] <tjaalton> pwnguin: it's a mere proposal right now
[11:17] <mvo> tjaalton: just to clarify, the new xorg stuff gets its keymap now from /etc/default/console-setup ?
[11:18] <tjaalton> mvo: yes
[11:18] <mvo> tjaalton: execellent, so a global change of the keybinding can be done via "debconf console-setup" and x will pick it up on the next start?
[11:18] <tjaalton> mvo: yup
[11:18] <mvo> excellent, thanks tjaalton!
[11:19] <tjaalton> well, hal needs a restart :)
[11:20] <tjaalton> and then X
[11:21]  * mvo nods
[13:58] <Q-FUNK> does Bug #255991 look like a suitable candidate for an SRU?
[15:48] <mvo_> hey tjaalton! after upgrading (from hardy) to the interpid xserver I lost the ""EmulateWheel"  "true"" and  "EmulateWheelButton"    "2" options it seem (they work no more)  - have you heard about this problem?
[15:49] <tjaalton> mvo_: they are ignored :)
[15:50] <tjaalton> because it uses evdev
[15:50] <mvo_> tjaalton: is there a way to bring this feature back?
[15:51] <tjaalton> other than going back to mouse, I don't know
[15:52] <jcristau> the emulatewheel stuff was recently added to the evdev driver upstream i think
[15:52] <tjaalton> oh
[15:52] <tjaalton> so it seems
[15:53] <Q-FUNK> hm. interesting.
[15:53] <jcristau> you should be able to set that with hal. or device properties in 1.6
[15:54] <tjaalton> hopefully whot will backport input properties for F10 ;)
[15:55] <Q-FUNK> Live GIT/Linux user spotted.
[15:56] <mvo> tjaalton: sory, dropped offline (compiz got a bit unhappy on me :)
[15:57] <mvo> tjaalton: did you say aynthing in the meantime?
[15:57] <tjaalton> mvo: upstream evdev has support for those options, it seems
[15:57] <tjaalton> in master
[15:58] <mvo> tjaalton: sweet, thanks. so I just need to wait until that is released at some point? or do you think it might be worthwhile to backport the patch?
[15:59] <tjaalton> mvo: it could be backported, no idea when a new release is due
[16:00] <mvo> ok, thanks
[16:00] <mvo> I'm keen on this feature, I may have a look myself
[16:01] <tjaalton> mvo: you can configure evdev via hal, since xorg.conf is ignored for it
[21:32] <bdmurray> bryce: yesterday I was rambling aboug unable to allocate texture - I've submitted bug 257419 about it
[21:43] <bryce> bdmurray: ok looking
[23:00] <Ampelbein> Hi! Could some experienced user check on Bug 255826 and tell me if I done the examination in the correct way? Thank you.
[23:08] <bryce> Ampelbein: certainly, looking...
[23:08] <bryce> Ampelbein == Jordi Puigsegur I assume?
[23:09] <Ampelbein> No, I'm Andreas Moog.
[23:10] <bryce> ah got it
[23:10] <bryce> yes looks like you've done it all correctly! Good work
[23:10]  * bryce sets to triaged
[23:10] <Ampelbein> ok, thanks for the feedback.


[13:36] <Islington> http://wstaw.org/m/2011/07/22/plasma-desktopqI3037.jpg iainfarrell thorwil opinions?
[13:37] <iainfarrell> Islington: nice idea for a wallpaper
[13:37] <iainfarrell> I have to say I rather like it :)
[13:38] <coz_> nice simple,, minimal :)
[13:38] <Islington> yeah I agreed with vish yesterday that it looked a bit washed out, so this was my fix
[13:39] <coz_> Islington,  I would also try different gradients in the background,,
[13:39] <coz_> color variations
[13:40] <Islington> coz_: its actually a two gradients on top of each other( only way to minimize banding)
[13:40] <Islington> coz_: will try it
[13:40] <coz_> Islington,  yes banding can be an issue and also yes multiple gradients can help to eliminate that for sure :)
[13:43] <thorwil> Islington: those map-like lines don't do much for me. consider to use less and make them look like the course of the plain, closer anfd farther away from the viewer, to add depth
[13:44] <thorwil> or make them more like a landscape
[13:44] <thorwil> gotta run
[14:04] <vish> hmm, i thought those were clouds.. :D
[14:04] <Islington> they are thorwil must have been in a rush