[12:29] <cogumbreiro> uploading the tar.gz works correctly
[12:33] <dholbach> good night
[02:00] <lifeless> jamesh: hows the branch status coming along ?
[02:03] <jamesh> lifeless: I started working on the XML-RPC changes yesterday, but need to finish BjornT's review before continuing today
[02:06] <lifeless> tha's cool
[02:59] <squinn> I recently went back to Ubuntu. Today, actually. In the process of not having Ubuntu, my email was hacked and the password was changed.  Anyone know why?
[03:10] <jamesh> squinn: so you can log into Launchpad but not the wiki?
[03:10] <squinn> correct.
[03:11] <squinn> Hold on. I use my email as username. I'm in I think.
[07:02] <mpt> Gooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[07:07] <ajmitch> hi mpt
[07:47] <poningru> mpt: what movie is that from?
[07:52] <poningru> was it something I said?
[08:06] <SteveA> morning
[08:23] <mpt> poningru, what movie is what from?
[08:23] <poningru> [01:02:32]  <mpt> Gooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[08:23] <poningru> the goooooooooood evening was from some movie
[08:23] <poningru> iirc
[08:23] <mpt> hmmm
[08:23] <SteveA> "good morning vietnam"
[08:23] <SteveA> with robin williams
[08:24] <mpt> yeah, that
[08:24] <mpt> but more relevant is jdub's "GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!"
[08:24] <mpt> Perhaps I'll shift (no pun intended) to capital letters once Launchpad becomes Free Software ;-)
[08:26] <poningru> true
[08:26] <poningru> hehe
[08:32] <carlos> morning
[08:35] <SteveA> hi carlos
[08:36] <mpt> SteveA, main-template.pt already contains the heading slot you suggested
[08:37] <mpt> it prints context/title only if something else isn't provided
[08:37] <mpt> which calendar-*.pt do
[08:38] <SteveA> mpt: i want that to change.
[08:39] <SteveA> i want it to be an error, not to fall back to context/title
[08:39] <SteveA> but, that's for later
[08:39] <mpt> and currently it's always an <h2>, which doesn't really work
[08:40] <SteveA> ah
[08:40] <SteveA> fuck
[08:40] <SteveA> i'm so confused
[08:40] <SteveA> see, context/title
[08:40] <SteveA> in the context of a page template
[08:40] <SteveA> soiunds like it should be the page title
[08:40] <SteveA> whereas we're talking about page headings
[08:41] <mpt> indeed
[08:41] <mpt> that confusion leaks into Launchpad's UI for some things
[08:41] <mpt> asking for a "title" for various things
[08:41] <SteveA> well
[08:41] <SteveA> that was a dublin-core-ish decision from early on
[08:42] <SteveA> but it doesn't mean we should expose it in the UI
[08:42] <mpt> TotalExposure, dude
[08:43] <lifeless> OverExposure can be fatal
[08:43] <mpt> I think of it as IndecentExposure
[08:43] <SteveA> jdub says "yoyo, pants off"
[08:46] <mpt> so, something I've never fully understood
[08:46] <mpt> and it's not completely explained in the Zope book
[08:47] <mpt> for <tal:foo content="something | default">bar</tal:foo>, if "something" doesn't evaluate, do I get "bar"?
[08:47] <lifeless> mpt: in python that would be 'content = something or default'
[08:48] <lifeless> mpt: or for more clarity, if something: content=something \n else content = defaut
[08:48] <mpt> sure, I understand that bit (it's in the book)
[08:49] <lifeless> ok. what do you mean by 'does not evaluate' then ?
[08:49] <mpt> I mean what the book says by "if a path expression fails"
[08:49] <lifeless> hmm, EJARGON. SteveA ?
[08:51] <mpt> "default" means the contents of the element
[08:52] <mpt> so <tal:foo content="something | default" /> is an obscure way of saying <tal:foo condition="something" content="something" />
[08:52] <lifeless> bar in your example
[08:52] <BjornT> lifeless, mpt: it's not exactly the same as in python. in tal, if 'something' is defined to be None, 'something|default' will evaluate to None.
[08:53] <mpt> There's not (yet) much use in trying to explain something to me by telling me the Python equivalent ;-)
[08:53] <SteveA> mpt: foo | bar  is different from python's   foo or bar
[08:54] <SteveA> it is also not the same as using tal:condition
[08:54] <mpt> e.g., I'm not familiar with the precise behavior of python's foo or bar
[08:54] <SteveA> although there is some cross-over in uses
[08:54] <SteveA> rather than use analogies
[08:54] <SteveA> i will explain to you what the | operator does in TALES path expressions
[08:54] <mpt> nono, I've just worked it all out
[08:54] <mpt> thanks though
[08:54] <SteveA> really?
[08:54] <SteveA> cool
[08:55] <SteveA> the summary for folks listening at home is...
[08:55] <mpt> yes, half of it is in the book, the other half is in my experimental main-template.pt
[08:55] <SteveA> the | operator is about catching "I cannot resolve this path" errors and dealing with them
[08:55] <mpt> the summary is, try things yourself before interrupting people much smarter than you to ask them silly questions
[08:55] <SteveA> so, you have a path expression such as foo/bar/baz in TALES
[08:56] <SteveA> and if the machinery that resolves paths to objects cannot do so for 'foo/bar/baz'
[08:56] <SteveA> then usually, it will raise an exception
[08:56] <mpt> ... for instance, if there's no foo/bar ...
[08:56] <SteveA> but, instead, you can use  |  to say
[08:56] <SteveA> if the path cannot be resolved, then try this other thing instead
[08:56] <mpt> yes.
[08:56] <SteveA> often, you'll want to end up with  | default
[08:56] <SteveA> or  | nothing
[08:56] <SteveA> or  | string:hahayoulose
[08:56] <mpt> oh, nothing
[08:57] <mpt> that's better than default" />
[08:57] <mpt> well, same result, but more obvious
[08:57] <SteveA> better than string: too
[08:57] <mpt> and probably a teeny bit faster
[08:58] <SteveA> no, it is all slow ;-)
[09:02] <jamesh> for example, the bit of the product-index.pt template that shows the project portlet could use "context/project/@@+portlet-details | nothing" rather than using tal:condition
[09:02] <jamesh> and would work when project is None
[09:06] <SteveA> the thing to watch out for is when you have foo/bar | nothing
[09:06] <SteveA> or rather, when you have foo/bar | default
[09:06] <SteveA> and you expect to get the default when bar is None
[09:06] <SteveA> or some other false value
[09:06] <SteveA> that won't happen though
[09:07] <SteveA> because |  is only about recovering from path errors, not about logic operations
[09:52] <purple_cow> i don't suppose anyone knows anything about https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/28851 ?
[09:52] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28851 in rosetta "pot import failing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[09:52] <purple_cow> it's getting really frustrating not being able to update anything :(
[09:53] <mpt> purple_cow, ask carlos when he wakes up
[09:56] <carlos> hmm
[09:56] <carlos> ok, I think I can implement a workaround until I fix it. at least, It should work for you.
[09:57] <purple_cow> wonderful :)
[09:57] <carlos> purple_cow: what's your product? xchat?
[09:57] <carlos> purple_cow: what's your product? xchat-gnome?
[09:57] <purple_cow> right
[09:57] <purple_cow> the latter
[09:57] <carlos> purple_cow: try it again
[09:57] <carlos> it should work now
[09:58] <purple_cow> no oops this time
[09:58] <carlos> cool
[10:01] <purple_cow> looks like it worked
[10:02] <purple_cow> thanks a bunch!
[10:25] <daf> mpt: yo
[10:28] <mpt> hi daf
[10:29] <daf> let's talk people and users
[10:30] <mpt> ok
[10:30] <mpt> so, we have
[10:30] <mpt> (1) people who use Launchpad
[10:30] <mpt> (2) people who've never used Launchpad
[10:30] <mpt> (3) people who used Launchpad but want others to know that they don't use it any more
[10:30] <daf> (3) people who've never used Launchpad but have Person objects representing them in the system
[10:31] <mpt> your (3) is my (2), I think
[10:31] <daf> *(4)
[10:31] <daf> (2a), perhaps
[10:31] <mpt> "so, we have" -> "there are Launchpad accounts for"
[10:31] <daf> ah
[10:32] <daf> ok
[10:32] <mpt> (1) is fine
[10:32] <daf> wait a second
[10:32] <daf> you used the term "account" there
[10:32] <mpt> yes...
[10:32] <daf> Steve suggested (and I agree with him) that we only use the term "account" for Persons that have validated email addresses
[10:32] <daf> i.e. Persons who are actively using Launchpad
[10:33] <daf> person: somebody who may or may not be using Launchpad
[10:33] <mpt> In that case, what would we use for the Launchpad entity representing someone who isn't?
[10:33] <daf> account: somebody who is using Launchpad
[10:33] <daf> user: somebody with an account who is currently logged in
[10:33] <daf> is the proposed terminology
[10:34] <daf> Person is used to represent both account-holders and non-account-holders
[10:34] <mpt> That's straying a bit too far from the dictionary for my tastes
[10:34] <daf> i.e. we could have a Person.has_account() method
[10:34] <mpt> I am a person
[10:34] <daf> you are
[10:35] <mpt> whether or not I have a Launchpad account
[10:35] <daf> agreed
[10:35] <daf> maybe I'm getting distracted
[10:35] <daf> the point is this:
[10:35] <mpt> with your terminology, I might have two or more Launchpad "persons"
[10:35] <mpt> if I haven't merged them yet
[10:35] <daf> the UI should make a clear distinction between a Person who has an account, and a Person who doesn't
[10:36] <lifeless> banks call account holders 'client's
[10:36] <lifeless> or 'customer's
[10:36] <mpt> As much as all our software development should be focused on helping people get laid, it would seem very strange to me to talk about merging persons
[10:37] <daf> Launchpad users are not clients or customers -- that implies a financial relationship to my mind
[10:37] <daf> well, we can talk about merging accounts
[10:38] <mpt> right
[10:38] <mpt> a single person may have multiple accounts, especially if they haven't started using Launchpad
[10:38] <daf> the point is to make the developers and users to keep the distinction between the two types of person clear
[10:38] <mpt> so Launchpad doesn't know the accounts refer to the same person
[10:38] <daf> right
[10:39] <mpt> ok
[10:39] <daf> when somebody unexpectedly sees a page about them in Launchpad, it should absoltely not imply that they use Launchpad
[10:39] <daf> in fact, it should say that they don't
[10:39] <mpt> So for accounts that haven't been used, we need to make it clear that they haven't been used
[10:39] <lifeless> are they two types of people
[10:39] <lifeless> or are they people that have taken different actions ?
[10:40] <daf> yes and no
[10:40] <daf> a Person might have no account either
[10:40] <daf> a) because they have taken no action to create an account (validating an email address)
[10:40] <daf> or
[10:40] <daf> b) they have deactivated their account because they've decided that Launchpad sucks
[10:41] <daf> we don't support (b) currently
[10:41] <daf> I think we should treat (a) and (b) equivalently
[10:41] <daf> "This person does not currently use Launchpad."
[10:42] <mpt> right
[10:42] <lifeless> the fact you say that 'a person might have no account'
[10:42] <lifeless> suggests to me that they are not different types of people
[10:42] <lifeless> its not like 'man' and 'women' where its an innate property of the person to be that thing
[10:43] <daf> I'm not sure I follow
[10:43] <daf> it's a sort of "can log in" property of Person
[10:43] <daf> it is changable
[10:43] <daf> does that clarify it?
[10:44] <lifeless> when you say 'type' I, and I suspect most programmer think of subclasses
[10:44] <daf> ok, then perhaps we should avoid that term
[10:44] <lifeless> things that change behaviour without changing the innate nature of an object are rarely 'type' related.
[10:44] <daf> I was using "type" in an informal English sort of way :)
[10:45] <SteveA> mpt:
[10:45] <SteveA> mpt (1) people who use Launchpad
[10:45] <SteveA> don't say "people" here
[10:45] <SteveA> because there is confusion between Person (in our database) and person (a real breathing human)
[10:47] <mpt> so, the database is using a confusing term
[10:47] <SteveA> not really
[10:47] <SteveA> it all depends on the context of a discussion
[10:47] <mpt> (1) humans who use Launchpad
[10:47] <SteveA> because this particular discussion crosses a number of contexts
[10:48] <SteveA> we need to be very careful about the terms we use
[10:48] <mpt> ...
[10:49] <SteveA> but sure, you can sort all human beings into the following categories
[10:49] <SteveA> ...
[10:49] <mpt> the database might have two or more "Person" things for one real-life person
[10:49] <mpt> therefore, bad term
[10:50] <SteveA> another way to think of it is that the database represents real-life persons it knows about as Person records
[10:51] <SteveA> but, the database is sometimes inaccurate
[10:51] <mpt> https://launchpad.net/people/debzilla
[10:52] <SteveA> right, we have teams too
[10:52] <SteveA> but for the purposes of a discussion, you can consider that the database has Person records and Team records
[10:52] <SteveA> the fact that we use the same table for both is an implementation trick
[10:53] <mpt> ok, here's what I suggest
[10:53] <mpt> we could discuss this for quite some time yet
[10:54] <mpt> but at the moment it doesn't seem to be leading anywhere concrete
[10:54] <mpt> so, daf, apart from making it clear that "Foo doesn't use Launchpad" on the person page and in their icon
[10:54] <mpt> are there other specific things you think we should be doing?
[10:55] <daf> we should support deactivating accounts
[10:55] <SteveA> the terms i'd use (made up now) are: Person record, Person page, Team page, launchpad account, real person
[10:55] <daf> we don't allow deleting Person records
[10:55] <SteveA> so...
[10:56] <SteveA> a real person who can log into launchpad has a launchpad account
[10:56] <SteveA> the launchpad account links a real person with a Person record
[10:56] <SteveA> on a Person page, we should state clearly whether that Person record is associated with a launchpad account, and thus a real person who can log into launchpad
[10:56] <SteveA> we can say "this person has a launchpad account"
[10:57] <SteveA> or "this person does not have a launchpad account"
[10:57] <SteveA> we can provide a UI for real people to get a launchpad account
[10:57] <SteveA> (we do already -- signing up)
[10:57] <SteveA> we can provide a UI for real people who have launchpad accounts to delete their launchpad account
[10:58] <mpt> daf, I know of one other site which has this "we know about this person, but they don't use the site" situation
[10:58] <SteveA> as a further future thing, we can remove Person records from the database where that Person isn't linked to anything significant in the database
[10:58] <daf> mpt: what is it?
[10:59] <mpt> gah, it was working a moment ago
[11:00] <mpt> http://www.43people.com/profile/view/104310
[11:00] <mpt> (this is a site where you make lists of people you'd like to meet)
[11:01] <daf> '(placeholder)'
[11:01] <mpt> indeed
[11:01] <SteveA> everything2
[11:01] <SteveA> wikipedia, in a sense
[11:01] <lifeless> linkedin I think
[11:01] <mpt> When I'm logged in there's a link saying "Help us find the real John Kerry"
[11:01] <mpt> So I can suggest a merge with an existing account
[11:02] <mpt> or say "I'm the real John Kerry"
[11:02] <SteveA> everything2 has a different namespace for users and persons in general
[11:02] <SteveA> but they are both part of a larger namespace of articles (or "nodes")
[11:02] <mpt> Does everything2 represent people in that namespace who have never used the site?
[11:03] <SteveA> in what namespace?
[11:03] <mpt> in the "users and persons in general" namespace
[11:03] <daf> no
[11:03] <SteveA> yes
[11:03] <SteveA> that's the "stuff" namespace
[11:03] <SteveA> and you can certainly write a node about me
[11:03] <daf> oh, right
[11:03] <SteveA> even though i am not a user
[11:04] <mpt> and then the real you can go and claim that account?
[11:06] <mpt> Nothing like that happens on Wikipedia
[11:06] <SteveA> no, because it is not an account
[11:06] <SteveA> it is just some information about me
[11:06] <daf> no, the concept of an article about you and you having an account are completely separate in e2
[11:06] <mpt> same in Wikipedia
[11:07] <SteveA> daf is right.  that's my point about separate namespaces
[11:07] <daf> for instance: http://everything2.com/?node=Diane%20Duane
[11:07] <SteveA> in launchpad, we have a single namespace
[11:07] <daf> she has an e2 account
[11:07] <SteveA> but we can choose to split the single namespace into two categories
[11:07] <daf> (I was going to point to a friend of mine who has a Wikipedia article, but it got deleted after she suggested she wasn't notable enough)
[11:07] <mpt> that actually looks like a bug in Wikipedia
[11:08] <mpt> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:DafyddHarries&action=edit
[11:08] <mpt> I can go ahead and create a page for an account that doesn't exist
[11:09] <SteveA> so, anyway...
[11:09] <SteveA> mpt and daf, do you agree with what i said earlier
[11:09] <SteveA> about saying clearly whether someone has a launchpad account or not?
[11:09] <daf> yes
[11:09] <SteveA> we can also add an API for .hasLaunchpadAccount
[11:09] <SteveA> to Person
[11:10] <SteveA> and use this to choose whether to display things that make sense only when you have an account
[11:10] <SteveA> like your status of signing the CoC
[11:11] <mpt> I agree with all your feature ideas, though the terminology makes me go aaarggggh
[11:12] <SteveA> mpt: which terminology would you like to replace?
[11:12] <mpt> "account" with "uses Launchpad"
[11:13] <mpt> and "Person" with "account"
[11:13] <SteveA> i don't understand
[11:13] <SteveA> can you say what you mean, but using more words?
[11:13] <mpt> sure
[11:14] <mpt> If I'm a Debian developer and Launchpad has sucked in data about me using two different e-mail addresses, and Launchpad doesn't know they're associated
[11:14] <mpt> any English dictionary will agree they're not two Persons
[11:14] <SteveA> so, are you proposing to use "account" for that?
[11:15] <mpt> yes
[11:15] <SteveA> i don't support that
[11:15] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22claim%20this%20account%22
[11:15] <SteveA> an account is something that someone owns
[11:15] <SteveA> it is important that we do not have unclaimed accounts in launchpad
[11:15] <SteveA> because that would be offensive to (for example) debian developers who do not support using launchpad
[11:16] <SteveA> we would have an unclaimed account for them
[11:16] <SteveA> sending someone a credit card that is made in their name ready to use
[11:16] <mpt> I'm not strongly attached to the word account, but I am strongly attached to not using person for things that aren't
[11:16] <SteveA> when they did not request it
[11:16] <SteveA> if you are into conspriacy theories, we have a Launchpad "file" about people
[11:17] <daf> mpt: Launchpad records information about humans that don't use Launchpad -- what else should we call them?
[11:17] <SteveA> about some things they have done in the open source / free software world
[11:17] <SteveA> when we show a distribution in launchpad
[11:17] <SteveA> we don't say "A File on a Distribution"
[11:17] <SteveA> we say "A Distribution"
[11:17] <SteveA> it is assumed that launchpad does not actually have a distribution inside it
[11:18] <SteveA> but that we are displaying data about it
[11:18] <SteveA> so, it is also obvious that launchpad does not actually contain people
[11:18] <SteveA> and a Person page is not that person, but information about that person
[11:18] <SteveA> (within the scope of what launchpad is for)
[11:18] <mpt> we don't contain two records about the Ubuntu distribution
[11:18] <mpt> if we did, that would be a bug
[11:18] <SteveA> what kind of bug?
[11:19] <SteveA> it would be a bug in the *use* of launchpad
[11:19] <SteveA> not in launchpad itself
[11:19] <mpt> right
[11:19] <SteveA> launchpad can easily contain two equivalent products
[11:19] <SteveA> two people register a product
[11:19] <SteveA> and didn't check with each other first
[11:19] <SteveA> and so, we may in the future need a way to merge products
[11:19] <mpt> daf, perhaps "profiles"
[11:19] <SteveA> the same can happen with distros
[11:19] <mpt> that's what 43people uses
[11:20] <SteveA> but, distros are few
[11:20] <SteveA> so the problem does not occur
[11:20] <SteveA> people are many
[11:20] <SteveA> so are products
[11:20] <daf> mpt: yuck
[11:21] <ddaa> Distros are few?????? http://lwn.net/Distributions/
[11:21] <mpt> I also quite expect that we will have more non-human accounts like debzilla in future
[11:21] <SteveA> the world of open source is made up of people, who organise themselves into teams, who write source code and documentation for products, which are packaged into source packages for use in distributions
[11:21] <SteveA> take that sentence
[11:21] <SteveA> and change the words
[11:21] <SteveA> see if it still works
[11:22] <SteveA> we should use "Person" in the launchpad UI
[11:22] <SteveA> but when we're talking about adding or removing etc.
[11:22] <SteveA> we should probably talk about Person records or Person profiles
[11:22] <SteveA> but only there
[11:22] <SteveA> most people just read launchpad, and maybe sign up for an account once
[11:22] <SteveA> most real people, of course
[11:23] <SteveA> so we can offer to "merge this person profile into your own"
[11:23] <SteveA> but i would not want the main page of a person in launchpad to say "Profile of John Smith"
[11:23] <SteveA> the word "profile" should be reserved for when you're logged in, about actions on person records
[11:23] <SteveA> <end of transmission>
[11:23] <mpt> ok
[11:24] <SteveA> that's my opinoin
[11:24] <SteveA> i'm open to discussion, and differing opinions
[11:25] <daf> I agree about the use of the term "profile"
[11:29] <daf> stub: yo
[11:33] <ddaa> mpt: what do you think of ProductSeries?
[11:37] <mpt> ddaa, as little as possible
[11:37] <mpt> what do you mean exactly? :-)
[11:42] <carlos> see you later
[11:45] <Kinnison> stub: ping
[11:49] <daf> jamesh: ping
[11:54] <cprov> morning, hackers
[11:54] <daf> morning cprov
[11:54] <daf> I have an interesting oops for you
[11:54] <daf> I can reproduce it
[11:54] <daf> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2006-02-10/A38
[11:55] <cprov> daf: let's go
[11:55] <daf> I'm guessing that you need to escape the contents of sourcepackagenametxt before interpolating it into the regex
[11:55] <daf> lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/sourcepackage.py:74
[11:57] <daf> aha, I have a test case
[11:58] <daf> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filevRx2l2.html
[11:58] <cprov> daf: this method is 'the suck' ... already removed unused parts and it still making troubles. can you reproduce it locally
[11:58] <daf> I'll file a bug
[11:59] <cprov> daf: good
[12:00] <stub> Kinnison: pong
[12:00] <Kinnison> stub: I may need your assistance to do some brain surgery on the publishing records
[12:00] <Kinnison> stub: how long are you around for?
[12:01] <stub> I'll be around for another 3 or 4 hours, on and off.
[12:01] <Kinnison> Cool
[12:01] <Kinnison> thanks
[12:01] <Kinnison> Hopefully I won't need you
[12:01] <Kinnison> we'll see :-)
[12:02] <Kinnison> I should be able to do all this surgery as lucille
[12:02] <daf> stub: I'd like to be able to use my changes in r3018
[12:02] <daf> stub: rolling it out either on staging or production would be great
[12:02] <daf> stub: are you in charge of staging again?
[12:02] <stub> daf: eh?
[12:03] <Kinnison> stub: Oh yeah, you have staging under your full control again and it'd be nice if drescher couldn't talk to asuka any more
[12:03] <cprov> daf: do you mean we are having troubles with the 'xx++' within the regexp ?
[12:03] <stub> Kinnison: ok.
[12:03] <Kinnison> stub: well, unless cprov wants to retain it
[12:03] <Kinnison> cprov: ^^^?
[12:03] <daf> cprov: y
[12:03] <daf>
[12:03] <daf> er
[12:03] <daf> cprov: exactly
[12:03] <daf> cprov: https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/31039
[12:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31039 in soyuz "changelog linkification doesn't work properly for package names containing "+"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[12:04] <cprov> daf: right, thx dude !
[12:04] <daf> no worries
[12:04] <daf> re.escape is what's needed, I think
[12:05] <dholbach> Hello.
[12:05] <dholbach> tango-icon-theme doesn't seem to exist as an upstream product - do I have to create it manually?
[12:05] <daf> stub: so, I have a script that fetches information about bugs and displays it in ways that are useful to bug triage
[12:05] <cprov> Kinnison: stub: I ok to loose staging ... would be nice if we can sync production easily/on-demand in mawson (dogfood) then I can do some tests there
[12:06] <daf> stub: however, it currently can't get dup information
[12:06] <daf> stub: r3018 fixes this
[12:06] <cprov> stub: is that possible  and not so much distressing ?
[12:06] <daf> stub: having r3018 either in production or staging would be useful
[12:07] <daf> oh, I mean r3118
[12:08] <daf> stub: any idea what might cause "ERROR: duplicate key violates unique constraint "sessiondata_key" INSERT INTO SessionPkgData"
[12:08] <ddaa> hello again mpt
[12:08] <daf> dholbach: what are you trying to do?
[12:09] <ddaa> mpt: so, my issue is that I grew convinced that RCS import details should be moved out of ProducSeries.
[12:09] <dholbach> daf: I wanted to create an upstream task for a bug, so the upstream bug could be monitored.
[12:09] <daf> dholbach: aha, then yes, you will need to create the product
[12:09] <dholbach> daf: right now I just assigned the upstream bug just to the ubuntu task.
[12:09] <ddaa> Maybe a new RcsImport object. And that ProductSeries may be attached to a RcsImport or an existing branch.
[12:10] <stub> daf: Bug in the session machinery - I'll be looking into soonish
[12:10] <daf> stub: is there a bug filed?
[12:10] <stub> daf: Dunno
[12:10] <stub> Probably one of those oopses somewhere
[12:10] <ddaa> mpt: I have a strong feeling that this "RCS imports in ProductSeries" is a case of "design by modelling the world".
[12:11] <daf> stub: let's file one and worry about dups later
[12:11] <ddaa> mpt: but it seems like I was unable to convince the other guys when I raised that topic on the launchpad mailing list.
[12:11] <stub> daf: That patch will roll out to staging tomorrow
[12:11] <ddaa> mpt: you here?
[12:11] <daf> stub: ok, I can wait
[12:12] <stub> Are you screen scraping? We can access the real database you realize.
[12:12] <stub> We don't *have* to do things the hard way :-)
[12:12] <daf> I have an API
[12:12] <daf> of sorts
[12:13] <daf> which Ubugtu is also using
[12:13] <daf> I admit, it didn't occur to me to access the DB directly on mawson
[12:13] <daf> it might have been easier in retrospect :)
[12:14] <stub> Back in an hour - any last requests?
[12:15] <daf> nope
[12:16] <stub> cprov: Do you mean you would like to keep access to the staging database? If so, do you need the data preserved or can I start regularly resyncing it with production.
[12:16] <daf> stub: a present: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/31041
[12:16] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31041 in launchpad "session machinery sometimes uses duplicate session package data keys" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[12:16] <SteveA> daf: if we access the database directly for launchpad bug triage, we're not helping launchpad be useful in general for bug triage
[12:17] <daf> SteveA: if I'd written scrape.py to get information directly from the DB, would it have made a difference?
[12:17] <daf> (aside from not having the text export API)
[12:17] <cprov> stub: yes, you can start the resync, I meant, atm some point in the future I'd like to have a fresh production sync on mawson, to perform dangerous tests
[12:17] <SteveA> you can release scrape.py to the distro team today, for example
[12:17] <SteveA> or to anyone else
[12:17] <daf> that's true
[12:17] <stub> cprov: Ok.
[12:17] <daf> it's easy to build new kinds of display on top of it
[12:18] <daf> so it might be useful to give it to people
[12:18] <cprov> stub: for example, could you do it today, then we can do the security upload tests during the weekend ?
[12:18] <daf> (indeed, people can bzr branch sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/daf/public_html/bugs)
[12:19] <daf> hmm, it would be nice to have a way to cross off items on the OOPS summaries
[12:20] <daf> so that Diogo doesn't waste time looking at ones I already have
[12:20] <daf> cprov: I'm looking at today's OOPS summary
[12:20] <daf> cprov: there are lots of OOPSes from search bots
[12:21] <daf> cprov: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops-summaries/2006-02-10.html
[12:21] <daf> cprov: the top 3 exceptions there are all on build pages
[12:21] <cprov> daf: do you mean related on soyuz searches ? yes, it was expected ... I'm reading
[12:21] <daf> cprov: I'm not too worried about it, because it's only search bots and not users
[12:22] <daf> cprov: but it would be nice to be able to convert these into 404s or something
[12:22] <cprov> daf: ohh, there is a LOT !
[12:23] <daf> yes :)
[12:23] <daf> 224 + 36 + 24
[12:23] <daf> in ~8 hours
[12:49] <daf> SteveA: yesterday you said you'd tell me "later" about what you thought of what I'd done with "items from the last meeting" in the summary
[12:50] <SteveA> daf: i'll look now
[12:50] <SteveA> daf: i think the meeting summaries would be better most recent at the top, on MeetingAgenda
[12:50] <daf> good idea
[12:53] <ddaa> Somebody up for a quasi-trivial review?
[12:53] <SteveA> daf: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DevelopmentMeeting20060202   reads very well
[12:53] <SteveA> ddaa: ok, me
[12:55] <ddaa> found it
[12:55] <daf> SteveA: great -- the main problem you mentioned before was distinguishing new MeetingAction itmes from old ones
[12:55] <ddaa> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filefnYVFv.html
[12:56] <SteveA> daf: there was no problem like that in 20060202
[12:57] <daf> SteveA: ok, then I'll stick to that format for this week's simmary
[12:58] <SteveA> ddaa: that is a function defined inside a method's scope, right?
[12:58] <ddaa> yes
[12:58] <SteveA> but, the function doesn't use any of the names available in the method's closure
[12:58] <ddaa> as you can see, it's just a helper for sort
[12:58] <SteveA> so, rather than define the function on each call to the method
[12:58] <SteveA> define the function as a staticmethod perhaps
[12:59] <ddaa> does not matter, the method is called only once per page
[12:59] <SteveA> it is confusing
[12:59] <ddaa> okay
[12:59] <ddaa> will make it staticmethod if such is your pleasure
[01:00] <SteveA> display_order looks like it could apply to other things
[01:00] <ddaa> such as?
[01:00] <SteveA> so maybe that should be at the class level too
[01:00] <SteveA> i don't know
[01:00] <SteveA> but, i expect you'd want to have things displayed in that order, and not another variation
[01:01] <ddaa> which class... not in Branch obviously, not in BranchView either because we are in BranchTargetView (which is a gross hack IMO, but sabdfl liked it that way).
[01:01] <SteveA> the reason that functions defined within methods are often confusing is that it isn't clear whether names in the encompassing namespace will be used inside that function
[01:01] <SteveA> whereas, as a separate function, the dependencies are clearer
[01:01] <SteveA> BranchView is okay
[01:01] <SteveA> or BranchTargetView
[01:02] <SteveA> either works
[01:02] <SteveA> i think it would end up in BranchView, and be imported into BranchTargetView, if it were in fact used widely
[01:02] <ddaa> hu
[01:03] <ddaa> Right, I'lll remember that, at the moment that would be needless indirection
[01:03] <SteveA> ok
[01:04] <mantas_> Hi all
[01:06] <SteveA> labas mantai
[01:07] <salgado> Kinnison, I think I need to add a pocket attribute to MirrorDistroReleaseSource, like we have on MirrorDistroArchRelease. do you have any objection?
[01:07] <Kinnison> Nope, sounds right
[01:08] <Kinnison> stub: I managed the surgery without needing DBA powahs I think, I'm just verifying now
[01:08] <SteveA> carlos: thanks for looking at the OOPS report and mailing the list about the rosetta ones, and their status.
[01:08] <carlos> np
[01:12] <mantas_> Someone could tell me what is pulse type at http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror ?
[01:12] <mantas_> SteveA, labas
[01:13] <stub> Kinnison: ok
[01:13] <Kinnison> mantas_: use "pull" unless you have a reason to use otherwise
[01:15] <daf> Kinnison: should the page say so?
[01:15] <Kinnison> daf: I think salgado is still working on all the mirror stuff
[01:15] <Kinnison> salgado: are you changing the UI at all?
[01:17] <mantas_> Kinnison, hehe, could you tell me what could be the reasons to specify push there ?
[01:18] <Kinnison> mantas_: if launchpad was managing your archive then it could in theory push changes to the mirror
[01:18] <Kinnison> mantas_: this is not yet well defined
[01:20] <mantas_> Kinnison, thanks for info, maybe this info could be at http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror ?
[01:20] <Kinnison> mantas_: Again, salgado is working on the mirror stuff right now so I suggest you ask him :-)
[01:21] <mantas_> salgado, hi, are you alive ?
[01:21] <mantas_> Btw, what is Pulse Source ?
[01:21] <carlos> cprov: hi, did you solved your testing problems?
[01:22] <Kinnison> mantas_: again, I think this isn't well defined. It's probably not worth your while trying to register mirrors with launchpad until we announce that it's ready
[01:24] <daf> was this page created before our code review process?
[01:24] <salgado> hi guys, I was just discussing some issues on the MirrorManagement spec with cprov
[01:24] <daf> (I suspect that we wouldn't get away with adding useless pages nowadays)
[01:25] <salgado> yes, the UI changed a bit in the branch I'm working on right now
[01:25] <salgado> daf, what page is that?
[01:26] <SteveA> mpt: in the oops summary page stylesheet, can we get rid of bullet points except in the TOC?
[01:26] <daf> ddaa: what's keeping your testsuite-lobotomy branch from being merged
[01:26] <daf> salgado: +newmirror
[01:27] <ddaa> daf: bzr bug in pqm AFAICT, it's in spiv's hands now
[01:27] <ddaa> daf: initially, the problem was a 64bit compatilibyt problem in buildbot that caused the merge failure
[01:27] <daf> fun!
[01:27] <ddaa> (which obviously I did not catch here)
[01:28] <ddaa> mh, I think I did not mention the burning hate I have for buildbot today
[01:28] <daf> don't bottle up your feelings
[01:28] <ddaa> So, my hate for buildbot burns of flame so bright and hot that it eclipses my screen and cooks my pizzas
[01:29] <ddaa> it's kinda handy for the pizza, though
[01:29] <salgado> daf, why is it useless?
[01:29] <salgado> is it broken?
[01:30] <daf> 12:22:18 <Kinnison> mantas_: again, I think this isn't well defined. It's
[01:30] <daf>                     probably not worth your while trying to register mirrors
[01:30] <daf>                     with launchpad until we announce that it's ready
[01:31] <salgado> well, the only thing we're not doing right now is to check what content is mirrored and how updated a mirror is
[01:31] <salgado> but even so, if you register a mirror now, it won't be a problem when we start doing these checks
[01:32] <SteveA> daf: mpool isn't expected to be at all launchpad meetings (for the summaries)
[01:32] <salgado> mantas_, ^
[01:32] <daf> SteveA: noted
[01:33] <Kinnison> salgado: My concern is that if we let people register mirrors now, we may have to change the content model before we can release and it might get confusing
[01:33] <Kinnison> salgado: if you think this isn't going to happen then I'll shut up and let people carry on :-)
[01:33] <SteveA> daf:  "Jordi to send spreadsheet to Steve" is missing the MeetingAction tag
[01:35] <salgado> Kinnison, the content model will change, and I'll have to write the migration scripts anyway, so I don't see a reason for telling people to not use it yet
[01:35] <daf> SteveA: summary and MeetingAgenda updated
[01:35] <SteveA> thanks
[01:37] <Kinnison> salgado: fair enough
[01:37] <Kinnison> mantas_: just ignore me :-)
[01:37] <daf> cprov: how are you getting on with my soyuz-ui branch?
[01:38] <cprov> daf: merged and maintained, no action from the reviewers yet. I propably need to resend the review request email, will do it later today
[01:39] <daf> cprov: cool
[01:39] <kiko> ahoy
[01:40] <Kinnison> ahoyhoy kiko
[01:40] <kiko> what's going on here?
[01:40] <daf> it wasn't me
[01:41] <SteveA> kiko: the oops stuff is looking pretty smooth now.  start here:  https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~daf/bugs/oops.py
[01:41] <SteveA> click on a bug.
[01:41] <SteveA> click on an OOPS code in that bug
[01:42] <daf> 1 fixed, 2 in progress, 18 other
[01:42] <SteveA> matsubara, daf: you're doing a great job
[01:42] <daf> thanks Steve
[01:43] <kiko> nice!
[01:43] <matsubara> SteveA: thanks.
[01:44] <carlos> The bugs that are duplicates can be closed with 'Rejected' status, right?
[01:44] <daf> shortly, they'll have a special Duplicate stauts, I think
[01:45] <daf> I wouldn't bother changing the status of a dup
[01:45] <daf> unless you have some particular reason
[01:45] <kiko> carlos, daf's right
[01:46] <carlos> ok
[01:46] <kiko> daf, I saw that bug report on Oprah yesterday and she was full of big words to describe it!
[01:46] <carlos> daf: #3176 is closed and would be interesting to close all the duplicates we got
[01:46] <carlos> but we can wait ;-)
[01:56] <daf> announcing: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~daf/bugs/wishlist.py
[01:58] <mantas_> salgado, Kinnison: so, when I'm registering new mirror then in Pulse Source I should write URL of primary download location ?
[02:01] <carlos> daf: how often are those pages updated?
[02:01] <daf> carlos: constantly
[02:01] <kiko> Pulse Source?
[02:01] <mantas_> kiko, yes
[02:02] <kiko> does that term make any sense to you?
[02:02] <carlos> daf: then you have a bug on https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~daf/bugs/oops.py
[02:02] <mantas_> kiko, I don't know, but there is such entry - look at http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror ?
[02:02] <carlos> daf: #3176 has the 'fix committed' status since yesterday
[02:02] <mantas_> and I don't know what I should write there
[02:02] <carlos> but your page has the old status
[02:03] <daf> carlos: that's right :)
[02:03] <daf> carlos: the page includes fixed bugs
[02:03] <kiko> mantas_, actually, lauchpad.net is something completely different. :)
[02:03] <kiko> daf, can you <strike> fixed bugs?
[02:03] <kiko> or non-open bugs
[02:03] <carlos> daf: I'm talking about colors ;-)
[02:03] <carlos> it should be black instead of yellow
[02:04] <mantas_> kiko, ?
[02:04] <kiko> mpt, salgado: can you please review the terminology on http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror -- this pulse stuff is crazy
[02:04] <daf> carlos: you mean "fix released"?
[02:04] <kiko> mantas_, unfortunately I have no clue what it means. I suspect cprov and Kinnison might.
[02:04] <carlos> daf: right, sorry, I gave you the wrong status....
[02:04] <carlos> :-P
[02:04] <mantas_> kiko, :)
[02:04] <carlos> daf: it's on 'fix released' status since yesterday
[02:05] <daf> carlos: oh, right, it's pointed at staging
[02:07] <salgado> kiko, that pulse stuff thing needs to be documented in the spec. I added a question there but the answer was that it doesn't need to be documented
[02:07] <kiko> salgado, the pulse thing probably needs to be reworded
[02:07] <cprov> mantas_: basically pulse and probe are no working yet, but pulse is aim to be the mirror trigger url/method, which isn't yet well defined
[02:07] <kiko> or some text added telling me what the hell it is :)
[02:07] <salgado> yes, but in order to do that I need to know what it is. that's not clear in the spec
[02:08] <cprov> salgado: remove it from the UI for a while, so but don't get confused
[02:08] <mantas_> cprov: so, when I'm registering new mirror then Pulse Source I should leave empty now ?
[02:08] <cprov> mantas_: yes, leave it blank, the form should pass
[02:08] <cprov> salgado: ^^^
[02:09] <cprov> salgado: or not ? don't remember if it is required.
[02:09] <salgado> it's required if you specify Pulse as the mirror type
[02:11] <cprov> salgado: you mean Pulse Type as 'Pull' or what ?
[02:12] <salgado> yes, that's what I meant. sorry
[02:12] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=spiv]  Allow admins and rosetta experts remove entries from the translation import queue. + tests (r3120: Carlos Perell Marn)
[02:12] <mantas_> but Kinnison told me, that I should use pulse type "pull"
[02:12] <cprov> salgado: it's ok, so mantas_ should add his mirror as 'push' for a while, correct ?
[02:13] <Kinnison> mantas_: You need to ignore everything I've said and go with what people are telling you now. I was mistaken when I was trying to help you :-)
[02:16] <cprov> Kinnison: no regret, the just-landed stuff still obscure, we can fix it improving form comments and maybe hidding some unused fields
[02:16] <Kinnison> form comments would be helpful :-)
[02:16] <Kinnison> even for me :-)
[02:17] <kiko> particularly for me
[02:18] <Kinnison> pass damn you
[02:21] <ddaa> lifeless: you mentioned the sftp server required changes to the supermirror-pull-list.txt
[02:21] <ddaa> lifeless: can you quickly fill me up on that?
[02:21] <mantas_> Kinnison, cprov, salgado: thank you for info ;)
[02:22] <cprov> mantas_: you're welcome
[02:22] <daf> ddaa: the verb is "fill ... in", not "fill ... up" :)
[02:22] <mantas_> cprov, you too ;)
[02:22] <ddaa> lifeless: can you quickly fill me in on that?
[02:22] <lifeless> ddaa: see the diff of spivs branch
[02:22] <ddaa> url?
[02:22] <cogumbreiro> is it possible to integrate the (gnome) bugzilla with malone?
[02:22] <lifeless> ddaa: pending reviews should have it
[02:24] <ddaa> actually, it's on the page, but it does not have a diff yet :(
[02:25] <carlos> see you later
[02:25] <cogumbreiro> what's the difference between a product and a project?
[02:26] <dholbach> People seem to want a slideshow-enabled wikipage for Malone. :-)
[02:26] <cogumbreiro> is rhythmbox a product or a project?
[02:26] <kiko> product
[02:26] <dholbach> malone bug 31034
[02:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31034 in tango-icon-theme "evolution shows wrong trash icon" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31034
[02:28] <kiko> daf, what happened to some of the bugs that just disappeared from the oops bugs page?
[02:28] <daf> kiko: just a second
[02:29] <mantas_> btw, when I will have permissions to register Baltix releases through http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+addrelease ?
[02:29] <kiko> mantas_, not in the short term, but if you email launchpad-users I could do it for you
[02:29] <kiko> mantas_, however, I would like to know with carlos if that's safe -- carlos, do we currently do translation processing only for ubuntu?
[02:30] <daf> kiko: it's because I've temporarily pointed the script at staging
[02:30] <daf> kiko: I will point it back at production shortly
[02:30] <carlos> kiko: only for Ubuntu? no, Ubuntu and upstream
[02:30] <kiko> carlos, but not for other distros?
[02:31] <carlos> kiko: or are you talking about 'automatic' imports?
[02:31] <kiko> right
[02:31] <carlos> only for Ubuntu
[02:31] <kiko> I'm talking about the impact of adding a distrorelease for baltix, another distro.
[02:31] <kiko> carlos, okay, thanks.
[02:32] <carlos> kiko: well, if launchpad build the packages and use the same system Ubuntu uses... it shouldn't be a problem
[02:32] <carlos> (talking about pkgstriptranslations)
[02:34] <mantas_> baltix uses same packages like ubuntu, just some packages are backported from Ubuntu unstable and very few are from other, not ubuntu sources
[02:34] <Lathiat> ok can i search for the biild log for a package somehow?
[02:34] <Lathiat> tryign to find dapper/ctsims last upload
[02:35] <Lathiat> *build log
[02:35] <carlos> mantas_: but you build it by hand, right?
[02:38] <mantas_> carlos, yes, very few are builded manually, with dpkg-buildpackage - I have no other way, because I have no automatic build system :(
[03:08] <kiko> carlos, can you tell me about bug 2036?
[03:08] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2036 in rosetta "DistroRelease language page should show *all* templates" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2036
[03:08] <carlos> kiko: what do you want to know about it?
[03:09] <carlos> kiko: it has two problems;
[03:09] <carlos> 1.- Current content/approach is a big performance problem
[03:10] <carlos> 2.- It lacks entries due a bad SQL query that misses things
[03:11] <kiko> carlos, can you fix #2 in the short term?
[03:11] <kiko> would it take long?
[03:11] <carlos> kiko: I don't think it should take too long
[03:11] <carlos> but that page is still useless because #1
[03:11] <carlos> it fails to often
[03:12] <carlos> I could take a look on improve the performance with current approach at the same time
[03:12] <kiko> carlos, if you fix #2 I can look into the performance of the page. can you give me a URL?
[03:12] <kiko> or an oops
[03:13] <carlos> kiko: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/pt_BR
[03:13] <kiko> thank you
[03:13] <carlos> you are welcome
[03:13] <kiko> bummer man
[03:13] <kiko> it didn't :)
[03:14] <kiko> carlos, didn't we solve the do-not-use template problem?
[03:14] <carlos> kiko: not yet, we need to implement a way to remove the templates to stop using them
[03:14] <carlos> kiko: we are not creating new ones
[03:14] <carlos> that's the only thing done
[03:15] <carlos> but the old ones need to be handled
[03:16] <carlos> later
[03:25] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  fix https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/29182 (Can't (r3121: Brad Bollenbach)
[03:32] <jbailey> Is there any sort of aliasing system for searches in launchpad?  Like, if I search for "powerpc" will it also search "ppc" ?
[03:44] <kiko> jbailey, no, there is not.
[03:44] <jbailey> kiko: Thanks.
[03:51] <dholbach> bradb, BjornT_: ping
[03:51] <salgado> in a few minutes
[03:51] <salgado> oops
[03:52] <bradb> dholbach: hi
[03:52] <dholbach> bradb, BjornT_: can I forward you two mails of a bug report, I received, which don't contain the information that is displayed on the web? (malone bug 30648) - it's fishy too, that there are just two of them, but it might be a spam-filtering/whatever issue as well
[03:53] <bradb> dholbach: sure
[03:53] <dholbach> bradb: done, thanks.
[03:55] <dholbach> bradb: forget it... it seems that I just received the two empty ones, which are on the web also... sorry for the noise
[03:55] <bradb> ok, no worries
[03:58] <dholbach> bradb: I just checked https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/desktop-bugs/2006-February/thread.html - just the two empty mails were sent
[03:58] <dholbach> bradb: so it was not a spam filter issue, but some kind of problem with launchpad
[03:58] <dholbach> (search for "no run" :))
[03:59] <ddaa> Wow! The gimp baz2bzr ETA is decreasing!
[03:59] <ddaa> about time, after running for ten days... about one more week left
[04:00] <bradb> dholbach: Thanks. I'll open a bug about this.
[04:00] <dholbach> bradb: merci beaucoup
[04:00] <bradb> bienvenue
[04:00] <dholbach> bradb: there seem to be entries missing in the bug activity log as well.
[04:01] <dholbach> (supposing that additional comments should be logged)
[04:01] <bradb> Comments don't get logged atm.
[04:01] <dholbach> Ah, right.
[04:03] <bradb> dholbach: bug 31059 for the emptiness
[04:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31059 in malone "Empty comments and empty emails generated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31059
[04:08] <LarstiQ> ddaa: is gimp the worst?
[04:08] <ddaa> yes
[04:09] <ddaa> there are couple of other conversions outstanding for various reasons, but gimp is the bigger and meaner.
[04:09] <ddaa> * biggest and meanest
[04:10] <ddaa> It's a bit annoying when after two days the ETA is 140 hours, and it's still the same 5 days laters...
[04:10] <daf> bug in the ETA code?
[04:10] <ddaa> bug in baz replay and old bzr commit code methink
[04:10] <ddaa> the ETA code is really trivial
[04:11] <Kinnison> should just report '1GE' when over 24 hours
[04:11] <ddaa> GE?
[04:11] <Kinnison> geological era
[04:11] <ddaa> it's useful to know that something is likely to finish within a week
[04:11] <ddaa> at least, for my use case... admittedly, not all that common...
[04:13] <ddaa> though admittedly... you could s/hour/too long/ and s/day/too frickin' long/ if you want a "humane" use interface :)
[04:14] <Kinnison> kiko: I have code in my branch for -updates and some better -security behaviour following the last attempts
[04:14] <Kinnison> kiko: Along with (wait for it) comprehensive tests
[04:14] <Kinnison> kiko: once cprov gets back we'll look at rolling this out to ftpmaster
[04:18] <kiko> cool Kinnison
[04:20] <Kinnison> nothing I fancy
[04:20] <kiko> !
[04:20] <Kinnison> kiko: I'll get on with the chroots for the -updates pockets
[04:20] <kiko> okay, cool
[04:20] <kiko> did you manage to see what happened to scott's uploads?
[04:21] <Kinnison> urgh no, not yet
[04:21] <Kinnison> I have an idea
[04:21] <Kinnison> but I need to verify it
[04:21] <kiko> okay.
[04:21] <Kinnison> I *think* he uploaded it twice inside the same five minutes
[04:21] <Kinnison> which might confuse process-upload
[04:21] <Kinnison> it's harmless but irritating
[04:21] <kiko> indeed.
[04:21] <Kinnison> chroots first, then I'll investigate that one
[04:21] <Keybuk> yeah, I uploaded the same source twice
[04:21] <Keybuk> with different diff.gz
[04:22] <Keybuk> it was the fact it seemed to get processed twice that was confusing
[04:22] <Kinnison> each upload is independant in the new world order
[04:22] <Kinnison> utterly independant
[04:23] <Keybuk> surely they're at least sorted by time, so the later one wins?
[04:23] <Kinnison> that's probable
[04:23] <Kinnison> which one won?
[04:23] <Kinnison> I'll admit I never catalogued the behavioural modes when faced with developers doing odd things
[04:23] <Keybuk> it looks like the later one did, based on the diff.gz-in-the-archive
[04:23] <bradb> salgado-lunch: Did you ask stub to cherry pick the patch that added "_table = BinaryAndSourcePackageName"? It would fix a rather nasty bug on the filebug page, but I can't figure out which revno that fix went in on.
[04:24] <Kinnison> cool
[04:34] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: Fixes https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/31005 (ValueError on bugtask traversal) r=kiko (r3122: Diogo Matsubara)
[04:38] <daf> matsubara-lunch: first merge to RF? :)
[04:40] <kiko> could be :)
[05:08] <raphink> hi there
[05:09] <raphink> not sure this is the right place to report
[05:09] <raphink> the UserPreferences in the Ubuntu wiki don't work
[05:09] <raphink> validating the form doesn't update the data
[05:09] <raphink> tried on konqueror & firefox, on various ubuntu boxes
[05:09] <raphink> if anyone can confirm : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences
[05:10] <daf> is this bug #3987?
[05:10] <Ubugtu> malone bug 3987 in launchpad "Launchpad wiki UserPreferences causes mismatched passwords" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3987
[05:10] <daf> elmo: ping
[05:10] <raphink> hmm seems so saf
[05:10] <raphink> daf
[05:11] <raphink> yes that's it
[05:12] <daf> I'll try and find out what happened to Andrew's fix
[05:12] <raphink> I've updated the bug daf
[05:13] <daf> thanks
[05:15] <matsubara> daf: yes
[05:15] <daf> matsubara: congratulations
[05:16] <matsubara> daf: thanks :)
[05:44] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix a bug from the Launchpad Errors report that was causing (r3123: Brad Bollenbach)
[05:45] <kiko> daf, can't you fix dilys?
[05:50] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix a bug from the Launchpad Errors report that was causing (r3123: Brad Bollenbach)
[05:50] <daf> hmm
[05:56] <kiko> bradb?
[05:57] <salgado> SteveA, around?
[06:02] <kiko> salgado, SteveA's off for the afternoon. how may I help you?
[06:02] <kiko> bradbeeeeeee?
[06:03] <salgado> kiko, I need to test the mirror prober, and for that I think I need some zope magic to make all http requests on a path under, let's say, /foo/ to return a 200 OK
[06:04] <kiko> salgado, just build something on apache at async.
[06:04] <kiko> dredg, tell me about your problems
[06:05] <dredg> kiko: on launchpad my wiki url points to NiallSheridan3. When i try to change it to 'NiallSheridan' I get told that "The Ubuntu WikiName NiallSheridan is already registered by Niall Sheridan."
[06:05] <dredg> looks like a merge of some things created a dupe somewhere
[06:06] <salgado> kiko, I need to make proper doctests/unittests for it. for manual testing I don't need anything
[06:07] <kiko> dredg, so you merged an account but the old wiki name is still taken?
[06:07] <SteveA> salgado: use zeca
[06:07] <kiko> or is the problem that you have yet another unmerged account
[06:08] <SteveA> salgado: talk to celso about how he did it
[06:08] <salgado> SteveA, cool, I'll do it. thanks :)
[06:10] <dredg> kiko: i'm not sure. i created the NiallSheridan wiki page a long time ago, and created a launchpad account sometime afterwards. this was before the wiki was changed to moin
[06:10] <kiko> let's do some investigating.
[06:11] <ddaa> when pqm works well, it's pretty nice to use it as a test runner
[06:11] <dredg> kiko: my best guess is that launchpad thinks there is a few of me based on email address or something. it's hard to tell :)
[06:11] <ddaa> write quick patch, send to pqm, fix test, rinse, repeat
[06:12] <kiko> dredg, that is definitely possible. care to /msg me your name and candidate email addresses?
[06:13] <ddaa> SteveA: if you want some reading,  I sent you the draft for the bzr publishing section, that I've been writing most of yesterday and today
[06:13] <SteveA> ddaa: nice.  i'll read it tomorrow.
[06:13] <kiko> bradbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[06:14] <ddaa> SteveA: -ENOWEEKEND?
[06:14] <SteveA> ddaa: i arranged with kiko to switch this afternoon for saturday afternoon
[06:15] <kiko> yes, today is officially saturday from now on, and tomorrow will be friday.
[06:15] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix a bug from the Launchpad Errors report that was causing OOPS-40A169 (r3123: Brad Bollenbach)
[06:15] <kiko> mdz_?
[06:15] <ddaa> SteveA: there's also some open issues in the signing draft I sent yesterday
[06:15] <daf> kiko: better?
[06:15] <kiko> daf, thanks :)
[06:16] <ddaa> okay, da next one is how to do new imports... in particular howzdat gonna work for non-main branches...
[06:17] <ddaa> man, writing implementation specs is hard work
[06:18] <mdz> kiko: laptop testing
[06:20] <daf> bradb: does 40A169 have a bug?
[06:21] <kiko> salgado: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2006-02-10/C400
[06:21] <kiko> salgado, fixed?
[06:22] <salgado> kiko, yes, already in rocketfuel
[06:22] <dholbach> have a nice weekend
[06:23] <kiko> thanks salgado
[06:24] <ddaa> shit, the movie I wanted to see is four months old...
[06:25] <ddaa> that's an annoyingly long lapse...
[06:36] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix bug # 31039, properly escaping source names before using regexp replace in changelog linkification, added new sampledata and tests for sourcepackage view classes (r3124: Celso Providelo)
[06:37] <kiko> cool
[06:37] <kiko> go cprov go
[06:50] <bradb> daf: Not that I know of. If it did, I would have mentioned it in the merge summary.
[06:50] <bradb> Just trying to knock off Malone problems appearing in the error reports.
[06:53] <ddaa> bye guys, going for a movie, I'll be back for one one after that (in about three hours)
[06:58] <kiko> bradb, I need to talk to you
[06:59] <bradb> kiko: sure
[07:34] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=SteveA]  change ordering of categories in branch listings (r3125: David Allouche)
[07:49] <carlos> see you on Monday!
[08:56] <kiko> bradb, can I assign bug 29174 to matsubara?
[08:56] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29174 in malone "Distribution CVE report assumes bugtask.sourcepackagename != None" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29174
[08:56] <kiko> say yes
[08:56] <bradb> i was already working on it, hence In Progress.
[08:57] <kiko> ok
[08:57] <kiko> then I won't
[08:57] <kiko> but I would prefer you didn't spend time on trivialities if that bug is indeed trivial
[08:58] <bradb> it's trivial. i pass these types of bug on in future
[08:58] <bradb> kiko: Skype should be ready now
[08:58] <kiko> thanks
[08:59] <bradb> What's your skype username?
[08:59] <kiko> kiko-async
[09:00] <bradb> "Failed: Misc error". How Launchpadesque!
[09:01] <kiko> failed, Reason unknown
[09:01] <kiko> I think your skype is bustage
[09:01] <bradb> I've used it with SteveA a few times
[09:02] <kiko> I'll call you
[09:21] <LarstiQ> bradb: shouldn't that be a Mic error?
[09:40] <Kinnison> ciau all
[09:54] <matsubara>  um mtodo como esse no precisa ter docstring?
[09:54] <matsubara> hmm
[10:13] <mdke> Kinnison, was that a "hi" ciao, or a "bye" ciao?
[10:13] <AlinuxOS> mdke, It's the same
[10:13] <mdke> AlinuxOS, i want to know if he's gone or not
[10:13] <AlinuxOS> It deppends if you live or you meet :)
[10:13] <mdke> i know what "ciao" means >_<
[10:14] <mdke> if he's gone, does anyone else know if the breezy-updates thing is sorted out yet?
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> mdke, think that he is gone :)
[10:20] <AlinuxOS> people is there some alternatives to launchpad ?
[10:21] <mdke> AlinuxOS, for what?
[10:21] <AlinuxOS> for translating
[10:21] <AlinuxOS> on line
[10:21] <mdke> boh
[10:24] <SteveA> bradb, kiko: echo123 in skype to test
[10:26] <kiko> SteveA, skype SUCKS :)
[10:27] <kiko> SteveA, so, do you have time for a quick phone call?
[10:27] <kiko> I want to talk to you about something
[10:30] <AlinuxOS> kiko, Ekiga rules then :)
[10:30] <kiko> heh
[10:37] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/29174 (Distribution CVE report assumes bugtask.sourcepackagename != None) (r3126: Brad Bollenbach)
[10:53] <LarstiQ> lp +branch reports that branches are scanned at least daily, am I right this is currently not true?
[11:02] <LarstiQ> eek!
[11:03] <LarstiQ> https://launchpad.net/products/0.39 and https://launchpad.net/products/0.38
[11:08] <SteveA> kiko: in the next 5 minutes, yes
[11:27] <ddaa> LarstiQ: that's currently true as far as I know, but I have seen less error report from the branch puller script lately...
[11:27] <ddaa> one issue at the moment is that there is no reporting about when the last pull occured, whether it succeeded, and so on
[11:27] <ddaa> so you cannot really tell whether there is a problem and where it lies
[11:28] <LarstiQ> right
[11:28] <ddaa> I believe jamesh is going to work on that pretty soon, since lifeless consider that lack of reporting will cause a degradation in service to rcs imports, and I have not yet found something more urgent for jamesh to do
[11:29] <ddaa> though I have an error reporting system (not error visible) of my own I'd need him to help on soon
[11:29] <kiko> LarstiQ, could you report that to launchpad-users? I can get stub to clean it up on monday..
[11:30] <ddaa> quite low traffic ATM, it as not really taken off yet
[11:31] <LarstiQ> I'll subscribe then
[11:31] <ddaa> kiko: do we have a gmane feed for launchpad users btw?
[11:31] <kiko> probably not yet ddaa
[11:32] <ddaa> mh... I guess I should suggest that to stub, since anyway the gmane folks end up asking the list admin.
[11:35] <kiko> you might propose to gmane and then tell stub to accept?
[11:36] <LarstiQ> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-users claims kiko also has a hand in it
[11:37] <kiko> oh my god
[11:37] <kiko> so it is :)
[11:38] <lifeless> ddaa: jamesh is already working on it
[11:40] <ddaa> LarstiQ: bad boy, you scared him away!
[11:40] <ddaa> lifeless: good to hear
[11:41] <LarstiQ> ddaa: ah well, you'll have to wait till monday then
[11:41] <ddaa> I do not have a direct stake, since as a devel I have to be subscribed to the users mailing list as well.
[11:42] <ddaa> it's just that I came to be quite fond of gmane, news client have decades of experience in lurking technology


[05:46] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[05:57] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:01] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, how is it going?
[06:01] <oSoMoN> ’lut seb128
[06:10]  * oSoMoN → school
[06:18] <duflu> oSoMoN, sorry, too much going on.... Good, you?
[06:30] <jibel> morning
[06:39] <didrocks> good morning
[06:42] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:43] <seb128> lut oSoMoN didrocks jibel
[06:43] <seb128> hey duflu
[06:43] <seb128> happy friday!
[06:43] <seb128> how is everyone today?
[06:43] <didrocks> happy friday guys!
[06:43] <duflu> Morning seb128, happy Friday
[06:43] <didrocks> good, will suffer from warm weather for a couple of days and looks better after that :)
[06:43] <duflu> + didrocks
[06:44] <didrocks> hey duflu ;)
[06:44] <seb128> nice
[07:11] <jibel> duflu, was it you who filed a bug because you cannot log into the unity session after logging into the gnome session?
[07:11] <duflu> jibel, yeah. Not sure if it's now fixed?
[07:11] <jibel> duflu, no it is not, do you have the bug #?
[07:11] <duflu> Actually can't log into any session (on the second attempt)
[07:12] <duflu> jibel, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1700485
[07:12] <jibel> I can log into gnome several times but cannot open a unity session
[07:12] <jibel> thanks
[07:12] <duflu> jibel, I think that was a differnt bug
[07:12] <duflu> jbicha had a fix, I think?
[07:12]  * duflu looks
[07:12] <jibel> duflu, right, and I'm using gdm not lightdm
[07:14] <duflu> I can't find the second bug I mentioned
[07:14] <duflu> I think it was Xwayland failing to start
[07:15] <duflu> Might be (should be) closed already
[07:16] <duflu> On a slightly related note, this looks neglected: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
[07:16] <duflu> (also server failures should be logged against xorg-server :)
[07:19] <duflu> Does anyone have any opinions on the preparation of this?  https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-audio-dev/pulseaudio/commit/?h=ubuntu
[07:50] <willcooke> morning all, happy Friday!
[07:52] <seb128> hey willcooke, happy friday!
[07:54] <willcooke> hey seb128!  Late night or early morning?
[07:54] <willcooke> :)_
[07:55] <jibel> or both ;)
[07:55] <willcooke> lol
[07:56] <seb128> lol but sort of true ... :p
[07:56] <seb128> late night was my doing, I decided to use a bit the time where everything is quiet to get some work and other things done (and watched some tennis on TV)
[07:57] <willcooke> Wimbledon?
[07:57] <seb128> then also had an early morning, but that one was not my choice :p
[07:57] <seb128> yes
[07:59] <seb128> going to be through for Andy this year :p
[07:59] <willcooke> ha, yeah
[07:59] <willcooke> he's had his turn
[08:05] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:09] <willcooke> morning didrocks, thanks for the email - that's great - perfect solution I think.  Sorry for being lazy :)
[08:11] <didrocks> willcooke: no worry! I *think* that's the user story which makes sense regarding to our past upgrade story
[08:13] <willcooke> It's a tricky one, right?  Because we need people to move to the new shell, otherwise what's the point.  But also - we don't want to freak people out and leave them stranded with something they can't (or won't use).  So I think your solution is the right one
[08:20] <oSoMoN> duflu, same here, too much going on… but I’m doing good otherwise :)
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: while I'm touching u-c-c, I noticed you didn't remove unity-control-center-faces, doing it as g-c-c-faces provides the exact same one + tweaking the dep, alright?
[08:53] <seb128> didrocks, k, it was on my list for today but if you are at it feel free to do that as well
[08:54] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'm adding the additional recommends on deja-dup at the same time
[08:56] <seb128> great,thanks
[08:57] <seb128> let me know if you want me to approve the mp
[08:57] <seb128> unsure if we still go through landings for u-c-c?
[08:57] <didrocks> hum, I was going to push directly as it's only small packaging change, wdyt?
[08:57] <seb128> wfm
[08:57] <seb128> 2 different commits for deja-dup and faces though please :p
[08:57] <didrocks> (deja-dup building FYI)
[08:57] <didrocks> yep
[08:58] <didrocks> already that :)
[08:58] <seb128> great :-)
[08:58] <didrocks> seb128: just pushed it if you want to have a look
[09:02] <seb128> didrocks, looks good!
[09:08] <didrocks> seb128: all archs are built for deja-dup new package. So, it's in NEW when you get a chance…
[09:09] <seb128> didrocks, already done
[09:09] <seb128> do you have something that push notifications for you?
[09:09] <seb128> or did you hit refresh every 10s?
[09:09] <seb128> (I was doing that waiting for the arm64 debs to hit the queue, build was done when I looked at it but the debs were not there yet)
[09:09] <didrocks> seb128: I had the web page with all arch builds opened
[09:09] <didrocks> :)
[09:09] <seb128> it auto refreshes?
[09:10] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deja-dup/34.4-0ubuntu3
[09:10] <didrocks> yeah, the arch part does
[09:10] <seb128> oh ok, nice
[09:10] <seb128> good to now
[09:10] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[09:10] <didrocks> yw, thanks for your review!
[09:10]  * didrocks pushes u-c-c thus
[09:11] <didrocks> once publish, I'll demote u-c-c source and binaries
[09:11] <seb128> \o/
[09:11] <didrocks> (all the rest still on the page are already demoted if their are source + bins)
[09:12] <seb128> now if only we had working iso builds :p
[09:14] <jibel> i pinged the release team
[09:15] <jibel> sil2100, ^ any chance to have a look today or you prefer to wait for infinity ?
[09:15] <jibel> sil2100, today's isos fail in the same way than yesterday
[09:18] <seb128> jibel, can you remind me where are the logs for the iso build?
[09:19] <jibel> seb128, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/artful/
[09:19] <jibel> and the error
[09:19] <jibel> E: No packages found
[09:19] <jibel> dpkg-deb: error: error reading archive magic version number from file /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/ftp/: Is a directory
[09:19] <jibel> duflu, bu 1702861
[09:20] <jibel> bug 1702861
[09:20] <jibel> I didn't find any useful data
[09:21] <jibel> where are gdm logs? (anything more verbose than the line in the journal)
[09:22] <seb128> jibel, you really meant "unity" in that report?
[09:22] <jibel> seb128, yes
[09:22] <seb128> no such issue with the GNOME session?
[09:22] <jibel> seb128, no it works fine
[09:23] <jibel> seb128, but frequently unity fails
[09:23] <seb128> unsure for the gdm logs
[09:23] <jibel> seb128, I've both session installed + gdm and all updates applied
[09:23] <seb128> I would expect them to be in the journal
[09:24] <jibel> yeah but the only line I've in the journal is
[09:24] <jibel> juil. 07 10:56:02 ubuntu gdm3[855]: GdmDisplay: display lasted 0,497889 seconds
[09:24] <jibel> not very useful
[09:25] <jibel> and /var/log/gdm3 is empty
[09:27] <duflu> jibel, I found some critical assertions in my logs of bug 1700485. Not sure if they are fatal though
[09:30] <duflu> Probably not related, but just as problematic: gnome-shell's top crash seems to be caused by Xwayland dying (which is also fatal for gnome-shell on Wayland): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1505409
[09:31] <jibel> I've dbus errors in xsession-errors
[09:31] <jibel> dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to D-Bus: Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection refused
[09:31] <jibel> Failed to connect to bus: Connexion refusée
[09:33] <seb128> is that after login in a session and out?
[09:34] <jibel> not sure. They don't change when a login fails so it might be unrelated
[09:34] <jibel> (they = the log files)
[09:37] <seb128> jibel, try maybe to edit /etc/gdm3/custom.conf and un-comment the debug enable=true
[09:39] <seb128> not sure if that's the same issue but I see something to duflu on my testing vm which is still on lightdm
[09:39] <seb128> login into GNOME works fine
[09:39] <seb128> log out and trying to log in again fails
[09:39] <jibel> ok
[09:45] <jibel> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1702861/+attachment/4910785/+files/journal_debug.log
[09:45] <jibel> there are dbus errors
[09:45] <jibel> and this
[09:45] <jibel> 1000 juil. 07 11:41:06 ubuntu gdm-password][10736]: GdmSessionWorker: jumping to VT 1
[09:45] <jibel> 1001 juil. 07 11:41:06 ubuntu gdm-password][10736]: GdmSessionWorker: couldn't finalize jump to VT 1: Appel système interrompu
[09:47] <seb128> seems the debug option works :-)
[09:48] <seb128> it's not due to the login manager at least on my vm
[09:49] <seb128> I get the same issue if I "startx -- :1"
[09:49] <seb128> first time works
[09:49] <seb128> if I close and retry session fails to open
[09:50] <seb128> seems dbus is failing for some reason
[09:55] <duflu> OK, I give up. Birthday presents to wrap, and dinner to cook
[09:55] <duflu> o/
[09:57]  * jibel relocates biab
[10:04] <seb128> ah
[10:04] <seb128> my intuition was good
[10:04] <seb128> downgrading gnome-session to 3.24.1-0ubuntu4 fixes it
[10:05] <seb128> it's a side effect of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/3.24.1-0ubuntu5
[10:05] <seb128> "  * Backport patches from 3.25.3 to kill D-Bus clients on log out."
[10:05] <seb128> jbicha, ^
[10:06] <seb128> jibel, ^ unsure if that's your issue as well but might well be
[10:20] <seb128> jibel, would be interesting to know if your unity issue is also happening on a fresh boot
[11:39] <jibel> seb128, let me try
[11:45] <jbicha> seb128: could you talk to halfline about that issue then, he was thinking about pushing the gnome-session workaround to Fedora 25; it's already part of Fedora 26 which will release in a few days
[11:46] <seb128> woot, indicators are off the iso
[11:46] <seb128> not indicator-application though
[11:47] <seb128> hey jbicha
[11:47] <seb128> jbicha, I commented on the bugzilla saying that
[11:49] <jbicha> I guess libappindicator3-1 shouldn't recommend indicator-application then
[11:50] <jbicha> seb128: your comment says "unable to log into GNOME again", but I thought it was Unity that had the problem?
[11:51] <seb128> jbicha, I didn't try unity, I'm saying that issue with a stock artful install and GNOME
[11:51] <seb128> saying->seeing
[11:53] <jbicha> I can definitely log out and log back in here (that is part of the test case for the GOA bug)
[11:54] <didrocks> we should do those "suggests" for indicator-application and indicator-messages if we can't swap off the deps, indeed
[11:54] <seb128> jbicha, well, I can't, so there is a bug that doesn't impact all users that doesn't mean it's not a bug :p
[11:55] <seb128> didrocks, yeah
[11:55] <seb128> hum, something has been pulling kerneloops-applet on the iso recently
[11:55] <seb128> do we want that on?
[11:56] <didrocks> I don't think we want multiple crash report experience, do we?
[11:56] <jbicha> seb128: yes, we just have to figure out what's different about your system than mine ;)
[11:56] <didrocks> also, i wonder if the recommends from gdm3 to xserver-xephyr has any use
[11:57] <seb128> didrocks, right, I'!u
[11:57] <didrocks> (I thought that would have been analyzed for the MIR)
[11:57] <seb128> didrocks, right, I'm unsure what's the status today of kerneloops though, are those handled by apport?
[11:57] <seb128> or just not handled?
[11:57] <seb128> did the MIR review got done?
[11:58] <seb128> security basically waived it in
[11:58] <didrocks> well, when writing it, the reporter should look at depends/recommends
[11:58] <seb128> and ken wanted to bounce back to Mathieu but I don't think that was done at the end?
[11:58] <didrocks> seb128: unsure about kerneloops
[11:58] <didrocks> no, because for me he did +1 and push that to security
[11:58] <didrocks> (the MIR team does a pass first, to ensure that security only has to review the code)
[11:59] <jibel> seb128, new image http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20170707.1/
[12:00] <didrocks> kenvandine: you didn't handle the Ubuntu GNOME -> ubuntu transition if I'm correct, right?
[12:00] <seb128> jibel, right, I saw, that's part of what we are discussing (indicators are off, nice!)
[12:00] <didrocks> kenvandine: iirc, I added that to your card as the ubuntu GNOME team asked to transition to the ubuntu session
[12:00] <seb128> and you can blame didrocks for the iso not building after all :p
[12:00] <didrocks> heh :)
[12:01] <didrocks> only people doing things break things I guess :p
[12:01] <seb128> yeah, I was thinking that as typing :-)
[12:01] <seb128> true statement
[12:01]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[12:01]  * didrocks hugs seb128 back
[12:01] <didrocks> hum, I don't find interesting references to xephyr on gdm3's changelog
[12:01] <seb128> good work, quite some cleanup got done this week and things went without issues for the most parts
[12:01] <didrocks> thx ;)
[12:02]  * didrocks looks at the debian package, just in case
[12:02] <seb128> I don't really see why xephyr would be useful there...
[12:02] <didrocks> neither do I
[12:02] <jbicha> didrocks: kenvandine: let's save the Ubuntu GNOME transition for next week, I want to discuss that with darkxst first
[12:02] <seb128> jbicha, that "system" is a daily artful install a bit less than a week old with no tweaking
[12:02] <didrocks> jbicha: ok :)
[12:03] <seb128> jbicha, so pretty much as stock as you can get, it's in virtualbox if that makes a difference (but shouldn't for dbus)
[12:03] <jbicha> ok
[12:03] <seb128> anyway, let's see if upstream has some debug hints
[12:04] <didrocks> # Use Xephyr if it is available.  It works better than Xnest since Xephyr
[12:04] <didrocks> # supports the Xserver extensions, even if on a remote machine.
[12:06]  * didrocks reboots quickly
[12:07] <jibel> seb128, I cannot reproduce on a fresh boot, but as soon as I login/logout from gnome, I cannot log into unity anymore but can still log into gnome
[12:26] <jibel> didrocks, too much clean up bug 1702892 ?
[12:28] <didrocks> jibel: interesting, I wonder if ubiquity doesn't use unity-settings-daemon and we don't have anything running in the ubiquity session anymore
[12:28] <didrocks> jibel: that would my only explanation, nothing for fonts have been demoted
[12:28] <didrocks> jibel: if you run the live session, and then, ubiquity, is it fine?
[12:28] <jibel> didrocks, and the installer fails to start
[12:28] <didrocks> any logs?
[12:29] <jibel> didrocks, yes, 1 min
[12:31] <jibel> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/25039048/ and for bonus points a segfault o fupdate-notifier
[12:32] <didrocks> hum, doesn't really help, mind trying live session & ubiquity?
[12:32] <didrocks> I wonder if Gdk.Cursor is using some xsettings set by g-s-d/u-s-d and none of them are running, hence this no font/segfault
[12:33] <didrocks> xnox: does it make sense to you? ^
[12:33] <jibel> didrocks, that's what I did
[12:34] <didrocks> ah, and the segfault is there?
[12:34] <jibel> yes
[12:34] <didrocks> and non ubuntu font either?
[12:34] <jibel> didrocks, but that's 2 issues, 1 ubquity failing and 2. update-notifier crash
[12:34] <didrocks> in the live session, like apps
[12:35] <jibel> hm apport-gtk crashes to
[12:35] <jibel> to*
[12:35] <jibel> too*
[12:35] <didrocks> I guess all comes from the same issue
[12:35] <didrocks> (at least, the crashes)
[12:35] <xnox> didrocks, ubiquity should start a settings-daemon and it has complex heuristics as to which daemons to start. let me check the code.
[12:35] <didrocks> GDK can't get cursor
[12:35] <didrocks> for whatever reason
[12:36] <didrocks> I wonder why this happens though
[12:36] <jbicha> oSoMoN: fyi for the LO i386 issue https://lwn.net/Articles/727206/
[12:38] <xnox> didrocks, hm, so it should be activating gsd, but in the usd code path we have an extra signalwatcher and ubiquity-dm waits for the xsettings plugin to be activated before proceeding with the rest of the setup.
[12:38] <jibel> didrocks, syslog attached to bug 1702894
[12:38] <didrocks> jibel: thx! do you mind making the manifest diff as you did the other day?
[12:38] <didrocks> I'm starting a vm
[12:38] <xnox> imho all o fthis should go / shouldn't be necessory and simply normal gdm should auto-launch gnome-shell with ubiquity in it =/
[12:39] <didrocks> xnox: well, seems to be in the session as well from what jibel says, so could be unrelated
[12:39] <didrocks> the "gdk can't get a cursor" sounds weird though
[12:40] <xnox> does gds still have plugins, or a way to wait for gds to fully initialise and e.g. create xsettings stuff /me wonders
[12:41] <jibel> didrocks, sure, will do
[12:41] <didrocks> jibel: thx!
[12:42] <didrocks> xnox: I guess in the live session, it is already fully started
[12:42] <didrocks> maybe though we are in a wayland session by default…
[12:42] <didrocks> now that gdm is default
[12:43]  * didrocks waits for a long build to finish and then spawn a vm
[12:44] <jbicha> we aren't defaulting to Wayland yet anywhere
[12:45] <didrocks> gdm has some heuristic I was told
[12:45] <didrocks> but worth checking
[12:45] <jbicha> oh, gdm3 does default to Wayland but the actual sessions should still be X by default, hmm
[12:46] <didrocks> let's check on the live first
[12:46] <jbicha> we haven't stopped the Ubuntu GNOME daily iso builds yet so you could check if things are working there
[12:47] <andyrock> mpt: any news on the design?
[12:47] <jibel> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1702892/+attachment/4910862/+files/20170705-20170707.1-manifest.diff
[12:50] <didrocks> jibel: nothing too crazy or unexpected at first look, same for you?
[12:52] <oSoMoN> jbicha, thanks for the link
[12:53] <seb128> jibel, when did that issue start?
[12:57] <seb128> I guess today and didrocks is already looking at it
[12:57] <jibel> seb128, with latest image. and it's issues (1. font in ubiquity-dm  2. ubiquity fails to start from the live session)
[12:57] <seb128> let me know people if you need more eyes to look at that
[12:57] <didrocks> seb128: I would like a second opinion (didn't start the vm yet) on the live diff and error reported
[12:57]  * xnox hasn't touched ubiquity in a long time, nor gdm3 ever =/
[12:57] <jibel> seb128, second bug is bug 1702894
[12:58] <didrocks> jibel: so you confirm the font is only ubiquity-dm related, correct?
[12:58] <didrocks> like if you open gedit or so in live
[12:58] <didrocks> you have the ubuntu font?
[12:58] <seb128> didrocks, I don't see anything obvious in the manifest diff indeed
[12:58] <didrocks> seb128: the crash looks weird, can't get a GDK Cursor
[12:59] <didrocks> my theory on the font is that g-s-d isn't started by ubiquity for $reasons
[12:59] <seb128> didrocks, I would guess "ubiquity doesn't work under wayland" :p
[12:59] <didrocks> and for the crash, wayland yeah
[12:59] <didrocks> (so, due to gdm being too smart and autologin in wayland)
[13:00] <didrocks> I guess xprop doesn't report anything on wayland?
[13:01] <seb128> to know if you are under wayland you mean?
[13:01] <didrocks> yep
[13:01] <didrocks> (I wouldn't trust env variable as we can have some scripts settings them unconditionnaly)
[13:02] <seb128> loginctl show-session should tell you
[13:02] <jibel> didrocks, yes it's only in dm
[13:02] <jibel> didrocks, the live session is fine
[13:02] <seb128> or echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
[13:03] <didrocks> ok, will give it a try once the current build is done
[13:03] <seb128> I'm downloading the daily, a few more minutes
[13:09] <didrocks> confirmed
[13:09] <didrocks> ubiquity crashes only under wayland
[13:09] <didrocks> (tried on an old installation, switched session
[13:09] <didrocks> )
[13:09] <didrocks> wayland -> crash, x -> works
[13:09] <didrocks> jibel: seb128: xnox: ^
[13:10] <didrocks> on the font in ubiquity-dm, I bet g-s-d isn't started and we don't have u-s-d anymore…
[13:11] <seb128> confirmed that daily iso boot to wayland
[13:11] <didrocks> so, not a cleaning issue, upstream code issue and gdm transition :p
[13:11] <didrocks> anyway, I think we should force X for now
[13:11] <seb128> loginctrl show-session says type=wayland
[13:12] <didrocks> seb128: what's the session name?
[13:12] <didrocks> I guess we'll need to poke in gdm smartness
[13:12] <didrocks> seb128: and do you mind looking/starting g-s-d in ubiquity-dm?
[13:12] <didrocks> for the font issue
[13:12] <seb128> DESKTOP_SESSION=ubuntu-wayland
[13:13] <seb128> sure, can look to that
[13:13] <didrocks> interesting, I guess it prefers /usr/share/wayland-sessions/ if it finds anything?
[13:13] <seb128> I guess
[13:13] <didrocks> oh we didn't set any default in casper…
[13:13] <xnox> didrocks, g-s-d is started in ubiquity-dm. but in u-s-d codepath there is an extra wait for the xsettings plugin to be started before proceeding.
[13:13] <didrocks> that should have been part of the gdm transition card
[13:13] <didrocks> xnox: ah, that's the issue…
[13:14] <didrocks> but
[13:14] <xnox> didrocks, imho it looks like we are not waiting for enough of g-s-d to be running before proceeding to create things.
[13:14] <didrocks> IIRC, once it starts, it refreshes the windows?
[13:14] <xnox> or e.g. u-s-d != g-s-d in some other way.
[13:14] <didrocks> like in gtk, it's the themes and such
[13:14] <xnox> but not text, i would not think.
[13:14] <didrocks> I thought there were a signalling mecanism
[13:14] <didrocks> hum
[13:14] <didrocks> yeah
[13:14] <seb128> easy way to know your session is a wayland one, alt-f2 "r"
[13:14] <seb128> that gives you an error under wayland
[13:14] <xnox> there are a lot of hacks to change language on the fly in ubiquity.
[13:15] <didrocks> seb128: "r"?
[13:15] <xnox> reload?!
[13:15] <seb128> yes
[13:15] <seb128> it's an hack telling gnome-shell to restart
[13:15] <didrocks> interesting
[13:15] <didrocks> nice trick seb128 :)
[13:16] <didrocks> xnox: do you think you will have time to work on this ubiquity thingy? (I think your analyze is correct)
[13:16] <xnox> no
[13:16] <xnox> i do not work on ubiquity.
[13:16] <seb128> who does?
[13:16] <xnox> desktop team?
[13:16] <xnox> =)
[13:16] <seb128> good one :p
[13:17] <didrocks> sounds like the same story than software-center, update-manager and all this :p
[13:17] <xnox> honestly none of us touched gsd or gdm code paths.
[13:17] <xnox> it was always gnome team, which i guess now is desktop team.
[13:17] <xnox> e.g. laney would often propose fixes for integration updates like that.
[13:18] <seb128> I'm having a look
[13:18] <seb128> it might be easy
[13:18] <xnox> ideally we should not have ubiquity-dm at all
[13:18] <didrocks> I'm looking at the casper/set default gdm session
[13:18] <xnox> and just do casper override or some such to have default session started normally with gdm, in the installer mode.
[13:18] <didrocks> yep
[13:18] <didrocks> quite agree on that one
[13:19] <didrocks> xnox: do you mind dumping the u-s-d hacks/xsettings sync notes on jibel's bug
[13:19] <xnox> which one? the does not start - or the font one?
[13:19] <didrocks> font one
[13:19] <didrocks> the "does not start" should be separated
[13:19] <didrocks> like "get ubiquity to work under wayland"
[13:20] <didrocks> and "casper set default session to X for now"
[13:20] <didrocks> jibel: FYI ^
[13:22] <didrocks> reboots & back
[13:22] <xnox> done
[13:23] <seb128> xnox, is it normal that I can't go to a vt in ubiquity-dm mode?
[13:25] <xnox> seb128, yes.
[13:25] <xnox> seb128, that would also be fixed iff we switch to gdm3 launching ubiquity in installer mode.
[13:25] <xnox> basically systemd thinks one is not booted yet, and currently ttys are not started by systemd as they are ordered to be _after_ ubiquity
[13:26] <xnox> i send a patch for that by at the p itti did not take it =(
[13:26] <xnox> if you boot with debug-ubiquity option
[13:26] <xnox> ctlr-alt-t should start gnome terminal for you....
[13:26] <seb128> thanks
[13:26] <xnox> or e.g. modify ubiquity-dm to launch gnome-terminal process for you in addition to others
[13:26] <xnox> might be quicker to do that.
[13:26] <xnox> (just like it e.g. launches g-s-d et al)
[13:27] <seb128> ah
[13:27] <seb128> xnox, didrocks, that's not the ubiquity-dm issue
[13:27] <didrocks> hum?
[13:28] <seb128> g-s-d got split in different binaries
[13:28] <seb128> so there is gnome-settings-daemon binary anymore
[13:28] <xnox> oh, wrong path in ubiquity-dm?
[13:28] <seb128> since https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/3.23.3-0ubuntu1
[13:29] <didrocks> ahhhhhhh, so it's working due to dbus call on the session
[13:29] <xnox> instead of repeating ourselves in ubiquity-dm.... we really should look into launching normal session of gdm3 in installer mode without ubiquity-dm
[13:29] <didrocks> but not ubiquity which expects the binary?
[13:29] <seb128> no
[13:29] <seb128> each binary has an autostart desktop
[13:29] <seb128> so they start in the session
[13:30] <seb128> but yeah, same result
[13:30] <didrocks> (btw, confirmed we don't set a default session in gdm casper script)
[13:30] <seb128> ubiquity-dm does
[13:30] <seb128>                 gsd = '/usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon'
[13:30] <seb128>                 elif osextras.find_on_path(gsd):
[13:30] <didrocks> making sense, so just reintroducing that new package split on live would work
[13:31] <seb128> jbicha, did you look at updating ubiquity for the new g-s-d?
[13:31] <jbicha> well, obviously it worked somehow for Ubuntu GNOME 17.04
[13:31] <jbicha> no
[13:32] <didrocks> I guess you don't use ubuntu fonts for ubuntu GNOME?
[13:33] <jbicha> no
[13:33] <seb128> jbicha, it worked fully or you didn't get the right font used in install only mode and didn't notice?
[13:34] <didrocks> seb128: I think for casper, instead of setting a default session, I could use WaylandEnable=false, which "should" pick the X session
[13:34] <didrocks> sounds like a more flexible approach to me, but needs testing
[13:34] <seb128> right
[13:34] <didrocks> (at worst, we fix it on monday if we notice we are still using wayland despite this)
[13:34] <didrocks> ok, doing this
[13:35]  * didrocks opens a bug for refering that, as different from ubiquity
[13:39] <jbicha> yeah, I guess it used the wrong font but it's difficult for me to notice a detail like that :)
[13:40] <seb128> hehe
[13:44] <didrocks> jibel: seb128: xnox: casper "fix" uploaded to force a X session (I referenced bug #1702904). So next image should force-start the X session making ubiquity not crashing under live
[13:44] <seb128> great
[13:45] <didrocks> however ubiquity not working with wayland is concerning long-term
[13:45] <didrocks> seb128: are you handling the g-s-d binary so that we can check the font is loaded on ubiquity-dm
[13:45] <didrocks> (and just because I had to say it: "NOT related to any iso cleanup I did" :p)
[13:45] <seb128> lol
[13:46] <seb128> I can have a look if you want
[13:46] <seb128> at least put a patch up for testing
[13:46] <didrocks> yep
[13:46] <seb128> ok
[13:46] <didrocks> I hope that option (still on custom.conf) is working
[13:46] <didrocks> we'll see at next iso build ;)
[13:46] <didrocks> otherwise, we'll force the default session, but meh
[13:47] <didrocks> meanwhile, I can finally demote u-c-c source AND binary
[13:48] <seb128> :-)
[13:56] <kenvandine> i hope we're going to continue to use the ubuntu font
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, we should!
[14:00] <kenvandine> we totally should!
[14:01] <kenvandine> it's still my favorite font :)
[14:05] <didrocks> interesting, thunderbird-gnome-support is an empty package to pull libmessaging-menu, libunity9 deps
[14:06] <didrocks> so, it should mean the deps are optional to thunderbird despite being linked against them? Interesting :)
[14:06]  * didrocks will give it a try
[14:28] <seb128> jibel, xnox, jbicha, that trivial diff fixes the font issue https://launchpadlibrarian.net/327300814/ubiquity.patch , I'm not making a proper merge request because I want to have a look to what other gsd binaries might need to be started as well
[14:30] <seb128> on that note going for some exercice
[14:30] <seb128> be back later to finish a few things and deal with backlog
[15:08] <willcooke> Does U1 "work" in GNOME Online Accounts?
[15:10] <andyrock> i don't think so
[15:10] <andyrock> i guess it's not supported at all
[15:10] <andyrock> at least it was not supported
[15:10] <willcooke> I /think/ we need that then, what do you think?
[15:11] <willcooke> trying to think where it's used
[15:11] <willcooke> could be used for GNOME Software, and Live Patch in 18.04
[15:11] <willcooke> but I can't think of other places its needed
[15:12] <willcooke> In fact, it's pretty broken in Xenial anyway
[15:13] <andyrock> adding support should not be that difficult
[15:25] <willcooke> thanks andyrock - I've added a Trello card to get input from Laney and seb128
[15:26] <willcooke> jbicha, I tried to build the gnome-getting-started-docs project with the vp9 changes, but I can't work out how it's supposed to render those files.  Any ideas how it's supposed to work?  np if not, I'll keep plugging away
[15:30] <willcooke> doh
[15:30] <willcooke> fixed
[15:30] <willcooke> well, I think so, it's doing things now
[15:33] <jbicha> moving Unity to GOA is a bit complicated
[15:36] <jbicha> UOA doesn't support Ubuntu SSO (or Ubuntu One) and it's probably not worth trying to enable that just for 16.04
[15:39] <willcooke> yeah, but potentially is for B, right?
[15:39] <willcooke> jbicha, comment here if you like:  https://trello.com/c/2cMgendl
[15:39] <jbicha> UOA won't exist in B
[15:39] <willcooke> I mean G-O-A
[15:39] <willcooke> sorry
[15:39] <willcooke> adding support for U1 to G-o-a for B
[15:39] <jbicha> I was getting confused by the terms you were using :)
[15:40] <jbicha> yes, that could be useful
[15:42] <jbicha> I believe GOA is 2 parts: the goa source package and the UI in g-c-c
[15:44] <jbicha> g-c-c has diverged enough from u-c-c that it might be a pain to try to copy/merge current g-c-c code to u-c-c
[15:45] <Trevinho> seb128: I don't know if you saw them arleady but i've 2 ucc branches with some fixes I forgot to land :|
[15:45] <Trevinho> and the SRU branch too might need your approval
[15:57] <willcooke> jbicha, ack, thx.  Should be fairly straight forward for us to write a new thing for g-o-a
[16:39]  * oSoMoN EOW
[16:39] <oSoMoN> have a great week-end everyone!
[17:13] <willcooke> happy weekend all o/
[17:54] <seb128> have a nice w.e everyone


[09:57] <thorwil> heh, on a libreoffice list, someone stated "could not find much originality", referring to http://www.paul-rand.com/site/identity/


[14:57] <TheBiggerGuycom> Hi, is there anyone who can help me with https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/637172


[10:41] <stevenm> ......    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22pictogram_svgs.zip%22&t=canonical
[10:42] <stevenm> says 71 results  ...  as in 71 pictograms
[10:42] <stevenm> but there are only 68 - any ideas what's wrong with the search/wordpress?
[10:43] <stevenm> oops wrong link... http://design.ubuntu.com/downloads?metadata=element-pictogram
[10:45] <stevenm> i think the missing ones *may* be desktop, laptop and server
[12:42] <stevenm> wendar, I ask you since you've set the topic - - am in the wrong place for discussion on design.ubuntu.com ?