[08:13] <gnuoy> jamespage, got a sec for https://github.com/openstack-charmers/charm-tempest/pull/5 ? fwiw I've tested it
[08:14] <jamespage> gnuoy, +1 merged
[08:15] <gnuoy> thanks
[14:03] <rye_> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/anonymous/569083600b2e95057add2d188e8d1687/raw/665602596e56b071ace4d0b79c6a3c48f489cb06/gistfile1.txt
[14:03] <rye_> sorry, wrong chat
[14:49] <DavidRama> hi foilks, got an issue with juju2.0b6/xenial I can't delete a charm from my status:
[14:49] <DavidRama> [Units]
[14:49] <DavidRama> ID      WORKLOAD-STATUS JUJU-STATUS VERSION   MACHINE PORTS PUBLIC-ADDRESS MESSAGE
[14:49] <DavidRama> mysql/0 error           idle        2.0-beta6 1             <IP_ADDRESS>   hook failed: "db-relation-broken" for mediawiki:db
[14:51] <verterok> DavidRama: hi, tried marking the unit as resolved? (juju resolved mysql/0)
[14:54] <DavidRama> ah yes thanks
[14:56] <DavidRama> And is there a way to stop/remove a whole bundle easily ?
[15:00] <lazyPower> DavidRama - not really. Unless you're using the gui you can mark every charm in a single transaction.
[15:00] <lazyPower> but thats the only easy way i can see to remove an entire bundle in one go.
[15:01] <cory_fu> kjackal_: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-apache-bigtop-base/pull/3
[15:01] <cory_fu> kjackal_: Example changes in namenode: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-apache-bigtop-namenode/pull/1
[15:01] <cory_fu> kjackal_: And you'll need this openjdk: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-openjdk/pull/2
[15:09] <stub> cory_fu: Have you had a chance to look at the charms.reactive action branch?
[15:20] <ddellav> jamespage or gnuoy can one of you guys take a look at this and land it? lp:~ddellav/+junk/charm-helpers its the change to support neutron 8.1 in mitaka
[15:21] <jamespage> ddellav, can you propose that as a merge against lp:charm-helpers please
[15:21] <ddellav> jamespage sure
[15:21] <jamespage> ddellav, you might need to rename your branch to lp:~ddellav/charm-helpers/branchname
[15:21] <jamespage> otherwise lp might lose its target...
[15:21] <ddellav> it's been awhile since i did a launchpad merge
[15:21] <ddellav> ok, i'll check it out
[15:24] <ddellav> jamespage https://code.launchpad.net/~ddellav/charm-helpers/neutron-mitaka-stable/+merge/294529
[15:31] <cory_fu> stub: Some.  I was discussing it with bcsaller.  I think I'm more inclined to use the state-based version in layer-basic, though we have also realized that auto-removing states like that are not the right way forward long-term, so there's still some discussion
[15:32] <stub> cory_fu: yes, I expect people will prefer using the states. I felt the @action decorator was needed though to setup that state if necessary, similar to @hook
[15:34] <stub> cory_fu: The basic model works for you though? Jumping into the reactive handlers and they can choose to call action-set, action-fail? And that actions and hooks are sharing the same bag of handlers?
[15:58] <jhobbs> juju's api-port, 17070, is what a remote client like python-jujuclient/juju deployer connect to, right?
[15:59] <rick_h_> jhobbs: yes
[15:59] <jhobbs> thanks rick_h_
[16:04] <beisner> marcoceppi, cory_fu - i'm needing to determine a reliable way to programmatically determine from the code tree alone whether a charm is to-be-built or already built.  it looks like the layer.yaml + whether or not the .build.manifest file exists is indicative.  do you have any other suggestions along these lines?
[16:05] <cory_fu> beisner: I think the .build.manifest would be the most authoritative
[16:05] <beisner> cory_fu, right so there's no case you can think of where that file would/should exist in a layer or interface?
[16:06] <cory_fu> beisner: Someone might check it in by mistake, but it really should not be
[16:06] <cory_fu> If they did that, we would nack them on review
[16:12] <beisner> cory_fu, ack thx sir
[16:13] <beisner> cory_fu, is there any case where a built charm or a layer would contain a interface.yaml?
[16:14] <cory_fu> It will if it includes any interface layers, but it wouldn't be at the top level
[16:56] <rye_> When my charm is deployed under bundletester, I briefly see a status of "Agent is lost, sorry! ...", but normal deployment goes fine. Is there some common pitfall I might be hitting, here? (juju2)
[16:59] <jhobbs> i've seen that with juju2 also rye_, not using bundletester
[17:01] <cory_fu> rye_: Juju always reports "Agent is lost" for a brief period while the unit is bootstrapped.  It just indicates that the unit is up but the agent hasn't checked in with the bootstrap node yet.  It should go away on its own after a second or two
[17:02] <cory_fu> So, now I have a question about subordinates....
[17:04] <cory_fu> Can someone tell me if it's possible to "chain" subordinates?  As in, I have the plugin charm that is subordinate to some principal, which is to install Hadoop.  But that requires Java, which is provided by a subordinate charm itself.  So I have openjdk -> plugin -> client where "->" is "subordinate to"
[17:04] <cory_fu> Juju seems to accept the relation, but the plugin never gets an openjdk unit
[17:20] <marcoceppi> aisrael: are you going to make 1x1?
[17:20] <rye_> cory_fu: good to know, thanks!
[17:21] <aisrael> marcoceppi: I'll be there!
[17:22] <magicaltrout> marcoceppi: can you find a definitive date when you guys will be in Pasadena so I can dump it in my calendar? We discussed it here and would be cool to hook up with you guys and I can combine it with a NASA onsite at the same time.
[17:24] <aisrael> NASA?!
[17:27] <magicaltrout> er yeah
[17:27] <lazyPower> cory_fu - yeah no, you cant build subordinates on top of one another
[17:27] <magicaltrout> i moonlight for NASA JPL
[17:28] <lazyPower> you can use 2 subordinates on the same principal, and exchange the java runtime information that way, but i dont think you can plug in interface:java on your subordinate - unless i completely missed teh question
[17:29] <lazyPower> what would happen is you need openjdk => client,  and plugin => client, and you'll have to do some data pass in that chain, either through states, unit data, or plain ol relationship proxy'ing info on the same unit
[17:30] <lazyPower> also rye_  sorry i missed ya lastnight. it was past EOD for me
[17:30] <lazyPower> rye_ - did you get your charmbox questions sorted in my absence?
[17:30] <cory_fu> lazyPower: Yeah, you're correct.  You can't chain subordinates currently due to technical / implementation reasons.  However, the modeling of the relations don't work the way you're describing so I'm basically just stuck
[17:30] <lazyPower> "modeling of the relations dont work that way" - wut
[17:30] <rye_> lazyPower: not yet, started putting out another fire :)
[17:30] <cory_fu> lazyPower: Juju is a modeling language.  ;)
[17:30] <lazyPower> cory_fu no thats fine, but what do you mean "dont work that way"
[17:31] <lazyPower> you can certainly pass data between layers with unitdata + state combos
[17:31] <lazyPower> ooo wait no you cant
[17:31] <lazyPower> thats a different unitdata.db for each sub
[17:31] <lazyPower> yeah, you're going to have to relation-set -r  out of band for any data you need to get from one to the others via the proxy. and thats messy, i did that with old docker-charm code and it ended in tears
[17:31] <cory_fu> So, semantically, the relationship is between the two subordinates.  I don't want to demand that every single charm that might want to use the plugin have to *also* support the java relation and *also* have to implement proxying that relationship across
[17:32] <lazyPower> by tears i mean it was fiddly and always needed attention, and wound up being a big pain to debug and trace that datapass across the charms.
[17:32] <cory_fu> So, when I said "don't work that way" I meant that it's not semantically meaningful to do that
[17:32] <lazyPower> yeah
[17:32] <lazyPower> i agree
[17:32] <lazyPower> make better choices cory_fu
[17:33] <lazyPower> <3
[17:34] <cory_fu> lazyPower: The response I got from asking in #juju-dev was resources  are probably a better fit, with which I mostly agree, except that it drastically reduces discoverability and makes ownership a bit of a nightmare.
[17:34] <lazyPower> well, resources are still a blocking item right now
[17:34] <cory_fu> Also, doesn't work in 1.x
[17:34] <cory_fu> Yeah, that too
[17:34] <lazyPower> i have a charm thats pending a release because resources coming from the store are currently pooched
[17:34] <lazyPower> it'll be fixed soon enough, but you're right, it locks you into a 2.0+ deployment scenario
[17:34] <lazyPower> and thats not always ideal either
[17:42] <aisrael> magicaltrout: Awesome!
[17:51] <marcoceppi> magicaltrout: http://summit.juju.solutions/
[17:52] <marcoceppi> magicaltrout: we should be announcing early next week, but it's all but signed at this point
[18:03] <magicaltrout> thanks marcoceppi
[18:04] <magicaltrout> kwmonroe kept changing his mind on the month
[18:14] <tvansteenburgh> cory_fu: latest bundletester on pypi has your new feature
[18:14] <cory_fu> Sweet!
[18:14] <cory_fu> Thanks
[18:24] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: i feel like you should be teaching a session right now, and not so much chatting about the summit.
[19:51] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Deploy looks good on those PRs
[19:54] <kwmonroe> thx cory_fu
[19:59] <marcoceppi> who has used extra-bindings?
[20:00] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: the openstack team
[20:01] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: they're the only folks that have updated charms to use it yet
[20:01] <marcoceppi> beisner: got an example of a charm with extra-bindings?
[20:01]  * marcoceppi has a need
[20:01]  * rick_h_ starts loading charms from openstack-base
[20:01] <beisner> maybe marcoceppi, sec..
[20:03] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v5/xenial/ceph-osd-0/archive/metadata.yaml
[20:03] <beisner> marcoceppi, https://github.com/openstack/charm-cinder/blob/master/metadata.yaml#L10
[20:03] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: and https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v5/xenial/ceph-radosgw-0/archive/metadata.yaml
[20:03] <beisner> lolz, yah those
[20:03] <beisner> o/ rick_h_ :)
[20:03] <rick_h_> :)
[20:03] <marcoceppi> so it's just an empty dict?
[20:04] <rick_h_> ? you mean how you define it?
[20:04] <beisner> usage ex. @ https://github.com/openstack/charm-cinder/blob/master/hooks/charmhelpers/contrib/openstack/ip.py#L112
[20:04] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: yeah
[20:05] <marcoceppi> interesting.
[20:06] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: will these create network interfaces?
[20:06] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: you can run network-get on those
[20:06] <rick_h_> in your hooks
[20:06] <rick_h_> and get config/info
[20:07] <marcoceppi> right, but does that mean these machines get virtual nics, or what?
[20:11] <beisner> marcoceppi, thedac + jamespage have championed our initial net spaces implementation - i'm not sure how e/n/i ends up first-hand.
[20:12] <marcoceppi> beisner: thanks, I'll ping thedac tomorrow about it
[20:13] <thedac> I am here
[20:13] <marcoceppi> oh, hey thedac, extra-bindings, how does that translate to the unit?
[20:14] <thedac> marcoceppi: So  this only works with MAAS for now. The physical machine needs to have an interface defined in a specific network space in MAAS
[20:14] <thedac> And this just allows the charm to "choose" which interface a relation sends data over
[20:16] <thedac> for the extra bindings part it maps directly to what the OS charms had as a config value os-{pubilc,admin,internal}-network
[20:16] <wolsen> marcoceppi: so for that mongodb charm change that I mentioned last week, you mentioned it was a new review so I believe I followed the docs https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/authors-charm-store#submitting ...
[20:18] <wolsen> marcoceppi: I ended up not pulling out master/slave because its needed for the amulet tests for sharding, so this only moves stuff out of the upstart/init script modifications to pushing it into the /etc/mongodb.conf --> https://code.launchpad.net/~billy-olsen/charms/xenial/mongodb/trunk
[20:18] <marcoceppi> thedac: interesting, okay. This is definitely geared towards maas so that's nice
[20:19] <marcoceppi> wolsen: that should be it, the old review queue is slowly chugging through things so it should show up by tomorrow morning
[20:20] <wolsen> marcoceppi: ack thanks just wasn't sure - the changes I have are safe for trusty as well fwiw, and I think I'll do a mp for them too
[20:20] <marcoceppi> wolsen: sounds good
[20:20] <wolsen> s/them/trusty
[20:21] <lazyPower> wolsen thank you for adopting some fixes on that charm
[20:21] <lazyPower> <3
[20:21] <wolsen> lazyPower: sure thing
[20:40]  * beisner woots for ppa:juju/daily  \o/
[20:52] <beisner> hi thedac, so i randomly chose cinder to convert from juju test, amulet, et al via debs --> to bundletester, amulet and friends purely from venv ... and that's all looking good.  now if i can get cinder itself to work as planned.  i'm seeing that pause/resume in cinder isn't really working.  bug 1581171  curious if you can lend a set of eyes on that?
[20:52] <mup> Bug #1581171: pause/resume failing <uosci> <cinder (Juju Charms Collection):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581171>
[20:56] <thedac> beisner: I'll take a look
[20:57] <beisner> thedac, muchos.   i'm taking a break from good ole cinder before i push overwrite a blank dir to it lol.
[20:57]  * beisner picks one that passes @master ;-) ...
[21:02] <beisner> --> glance.
[21:19] <cmars> mbruzek, lazyPower I'm getting an install hook error in the kubernetes charm. is github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes the right place to open a bug?
[21:20] <cmars> mbruzek, lazyPower https://paste.ubuntu.com/16382142/
[21:21] <mbruzek> cmars: Thanks for using our stuff. If you determine the problem is with Kubernetes code itself use that repo. If the bug is in the charm code then please open it here https://github.com/mbruzek/layer-k8s
[21:22] <mbruzek> actually cmars that is a bug in the docker layer
[21:22] <mbruzek> https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-docker/issues
[21:23] <cmars> mbruzek, thanks, i'll open a bug. do you think it's possibly caused by deploying this on lxd?
[21:24] <mbruzek> cmars: Absolutely.
[21:24] <cmars> mbruzek, got it :) ok, i'll find a real cloud
[21:24] <mbruzek> Docker *can* run  inside lxd, but Juju does not use the docker profile as far as I remember
[21:24] <mbruzek> There is a core bug my bug got duped against for that
[21:25] <mbruzek> As far as I know you can not run kubernetes in lxd  at this time.
[21:25] <mbruzek> because docker will not run by default inside lxd and I don't think they have fixed that yet.
[21:25] <cmars> mbruzek, ok. we might want to note that on the bundle READMEs, in case anyone tries it
[21:26] <mbruzek> cmars: is that how you got this?
[21:26] <mbruzek> cmars bundle?
[21:26] <cmars> mbruzek, yes
[21:26] <mbruzek> cmars which one?
[21:26] <mbruzek> kubernetes-core or observable-kubernetes?
[21:26] <cmars> mbruzek, observable-kubernetes
[21:40] <rick_h_> cmars: you need to make the lxd docker profile the one juju uses
[21:40] <rick_h_> cmars: why i mentioned gce and such
[21:44] <cmars> mbruzek, what about this one? https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-etcd/issues/11
[21:48] <mbruzek> cmars: sorry for the problem. etcd charm can be reved to 2. This bundle is out of date, hard to keep it in sync for all the charms are in
[21:48] <mbruzek> the bundle
[21:49] <cmars> mbruzek, thanks!
[21:51] <cmars> so in theory.. i could just edit the juju-default lxd profile and add the docker stuff. worth a shot
[22:01] <mbruzek> cmars: I really don't think everything will work inside
[22:01] <mbruzek> lxd
[22:05] <cmars> mbruzek, it's possible, but i had to set security.privileged=true on the containers
[22:06] <cmars> mbruzek, that got past the install hook, anyway. no idea if it actually works :)
[22:06] <mbruzek> cmars: tych0 indicated that some docker containers will not run well inside lxd.  I would suggest saving the bundle and incrementing the charms to the latest revno and deploying this on a real cloud like amazon or azure.
[22:06] <cmars> mbruzek, ok, ok :)
[22:06] <mbruzek> cmars: otherwise your mileage may vary.
[22:07] <tych0> well, it really depends on what the container is doing
[22:07] <mbruzek> tych0: These docker containers are go binaries running kubernetes.
[22:09] <tych0> yeah, i guess i don't know what kubernetes needs to do :)
[22:10] <lazyPower> tych0 - its going to do the same things any other deployment would request. Run a container confined in cgroups (potentially), request network and disk resources, and add iptables rulesets for the proxy
[22:11] <LiftedKilt> how does the maas2 feature flag work with conjure-up?
[22:11] <lazyPower> cmars - how did you get that?
[22:12] <lazyPower> its failing on setuptools/distutils? thats a new one on me
[22:14] <cmars> lazyPower, the etcd one? i deployed observable-kubernetes on lxd (which I've since learned is not really supported)
[22:15] <cmars> lazyPower, but the etcd hook error, i think it's fixed in the latest etcd-2?
[22:15] <cmars> about to try that
[22:20] <lazyPower> ok
[22:21] <lazyPower> lmk if its not, i had a bit of a stir looking over the bug+logs
[22:22] <cmars> lazyPower, mbruzek etcd-2 fixes my issue. here's a fix for the bundle: https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-observable-kubernetes/pull/5
[22:23] <lazyPower> cmars <333333333 keep em comin
[22:23] <mbruzek> Thanks cmars
[22:23] <mbruzek> I am almost done with the readme fix and elasticsearch charm can also be bumped.
[22:24] <mbruzek> cmars: if you just want kubernetes to run may I suggest the kubernetes-core bundle?
[22:25] <mbruzek> cmars: it does not have the high constraints as the observable one
[22:26] <cmars> mbruzek, good point, thanks
[22:26] <LiftedKilt> nevermind on that front - I just took a guess and got it working
[22:26] <LiftedKilt> however autopilot is not yet updated to xenial?
[22:30] <mbruzek> cmars: lazyPower: https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-observable-kubernetes/pull/6
[22:42] <mbruzek> cmars: lazyPower: https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-kubernetes-core/pull/5
[22:42] <mbruzek> cmars those should include the updates you asked about today.
[22:43] <cmars> mbruzek, thanks, LGTM
[23:05] <cmars> mbruzek, hey, i've got kubernetes-core deployed in GCE now, thanks for the help
[23:05] <mbruzek> cmars: great
[23:06] <mbruzek> cmars: I can publish those bundles here soon I just wanted to test the new YAML as you pointed out in the review
[23:06] <mbruzek> So far deployer seems OK with it
[23:07] <cmars> mbruzek, juju 2.0 likes it just fine, i deployed the bundle from the command line
[23:07] <mbruzek> OK. That new YAML was output from my tool that just bumps the revision numbers of all the charms to the latest according to the charmstore. Keeping bundles up-to-date was too manual for me
[23:08] <mbruzek> I know why they need to be locked to revision numbers, but that makes it very difficult to maintain large bundles.


[12:59] <klepas> anyone home?
[01:02] <bonvenon> klepas: no, it seems to be rather dead in here
[01:07] <klepas> aww
[01:07] <klepas> do you know what happened to the art team as of late?
[01:09] <bonvenon> no. I don't
[01:11] <bonvenon> are you involved in the art work in some way?
[01:12] <klepas> any advice to a newcomer to the project who would like to apply my skills?
[01:12] <klepas> not as of yet
[01:12] <klepas> but I sure would like to
[01:12] <bonvenon> same here ;)
[01:12] <klepas> :-)
[01:12] <klepas> have a site with some examples on it?
[01:12] <bonvenon> not really.
[01:12] <bonvenon> how about you?
[01:12] <klepas> that's alright
[01:13] <klepas> yea - m' personal site (blog and whatnot)
[01:13] <klepas> interested?
[01:13] <bonvenon> sure. (i've got one of those too) ;)
[01:13] <bonvenon> url?
[01:13] <klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/work
[01:14] <klepas> there is more scattered amongst the blog
[01:16] <bonvenon> ahaha! australia indeed! http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/46
[01:18] <klepas> yea
[01:18] <klepas> where are you from? :-)
[01:19] <bonvenon> sweden
[01:20] <bonvenon> I just downloaded the jedilinux svg.
[01:20] <klepas> now that's closer to where I was born :-)
[01:20] <klepas> oh, hehe :-)
[01:20] <klepas> that was fun to make!
[01:20] <bonvenon> I really like the illustration, but I think you could work more with the typography
[01:21] <klepas> yea
[01:21] <klepas> agreed
[01:21] <klepas> please, by all means, do improve
[01:21] <klepas> :-)
[01:21] <klepas> typography I prefer in gimp
[01:21] <bonvenon> I think it would be great with the text hand written
[01:23] <klepas> probably
[01:23] <klepas> I don't have a good graphics tablet
[01:23] <bonvenon> hmm... I might give it a try
[01:23] <klepas> sure
[01:23] <klepas> so long as you show me afterwards :-)
[01:24] <bonvenon> of course
[01:25] <klepas> :-)
[01:25] <bonvenon> what exactly is the Jedilinux?
[01:27] <bonvenon> oh. it's a linux dist, right?
[01:27] <klepas> JediLinux is a small linux distro set into motion by a couple of inquisitive guys from linuxforums.org
[01:27] <klepas> it is source based like gentoo and slack
[01:28] <klepas> hence the "may the source be with you" and "be the master of your system" :-)
[01:28] <bonvenon> :)
[01:29] <klepas> but I'm happy with my suse and ubuntu system


[00:05] <amurray> grimmware: hey, thanks yep we are aware of the issue and are looking into it - cheers
[09:52] <grimmware> amurray: nice, thanks!


[01:29] <Azelphur> what's a good cross platform file sharing setup, samba?
[01:29] <daftykins> yip
[01:29] <Azelphur> fun
[01:29] <daftykins> 8D
[01:29] <daftykins> sure is
[01:29] <daftykins> you too can hate ownership and permissions for hours to come
[01:32] <solarcloud_3scrn> daftykins, that sounds like an Ad. for a kickstarter campaign ;)
[01:32] <daftykins> 8D
[01:32] <daftykins> doubt i'd get many contributions
[01:56] <solarcloud_3scrn> doubt.ers' gonna doubt.
[08:12] <dwatkins> moin moin
[08:13] <daftykins> greetings
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
[08:13] <popey> pip pip
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning aptanet
[08:23] <aptanet> morning
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think I might have given you an old car pass. It should be yellow.
[08:24] <aptanet> ah, may have to move the car then!
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> When AlanBell arrives ask him to dig one out of the drawer.
[08:24] <aptanet> ok, thanks
[08:25] <daftykins> i felt like i was in an office as a fly just then
[08:26] <ali1234> popey: how am i supposed to package this QML app then? the developer docs just... stop.
[08:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> daftykins: Yeah sorry. Gone to private chat.
[08:27] <daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: that's alright it was quite amusing ^_^
[08:33] <AlanBell> aptanet: see you shortly :)
[08:38] <ali1234> btw i found out what a marquee device is
[08:38] <ali1234> it's a device that you see in a shop window, basically
[08:39] <ali1234> a marquee is the place in front of a cinema where they advertise the new films
[08:43] <dwatkins> we used to use big red LED-based displays for scrolling information, I think those are called marquees too
[08:45] <ali1234> yes
[08:45] <popey> this was in the context of sabdfl's intro to Ubuntu for Phones
[08:46] <ali1234> it's the same derivation. as opposed to a large tent. nothing to do with that apparently.
[08:46] <popey> ya
[08:46] <ali1234> it's like a non-committal way of saying flagship device
[08:47] <daftykins> it can mean the fakes then?
[08:47] <ali1234> no, it just means galaxy mini as opposed to galaxy s3
[08:48] <popey> given that video is aimed at ODMs I suspect the use of that term is highly deliberate
[08:49] <ali1234> why would he say that in a video for ODMs?
[08:49] <ali1234> at all
[08:49] <ali1234> "we expect your competitors will do it"
[08:50] <ali1234> it's funny how people always say "don't blame mark, he doesn't do business jargon"
[08:51] <popey> they do?
[08:53] <ali1234> yes. whenever he says something that annoys people someone always uses that as an excuse
[08:57] <AlanBell> ali1234: ah ok thanks
[08:57] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:57] <AlanBell> ali1234: one of those internal terms like in supermarkets the things that they put the goods on are called gondolas
[08:58] <ali1234> yeah it's industry speak
[08:58] <daftykins> over here in the co-op supermarkets, they're called Unis for some reason
[09:00] <AlanBell> brand suppliers give the supermarkets planograms of how they want their ranges displayed on the gondola, and what they really want is to be on a gondola end, like batteries are
[09:00] <daftykins> ooh, the whole aisle
[09:00] <AlanBell> the aisle is the bit between the gondolas :)
[09:00] <daftykins> that's true
[09:01] <AlanBell> duracell got batteries on an end because people were nicking them, so they put them on the end, people nicked the same amount but the sales went up so they had a lower percentage stockloss so they stayed there
[09:02] <ali1234> makes sense
[09:02] <ali1234> people don't walk down every aisle
[09:02] <ali1234> but they walk past every end
[09:02] <AlanBell> yes
[09:03] <daftykins> i'm not sure i follow that reasoning?
[09:03] <AlanBell> and when staff have to get from front of house to back of house they are told to pick a route past the high loss products
[09:05] <popey> and no the batteries are facing the tills, rather than facing another gondola
[09:05] <kvarley> More to the point who nicks batteries?
[09:05] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:05] <kvarley> They are expensive I guess
[09:05] <kvarley> czajkowski: \o
[09:05] <popey> people steal all kinds of things
[09:05] <AlanBell> kvarley: they are easy to sell, and this goes back a long way
[09:05] <AlanBell> can you remember when batteries were not on an end?
[09:05] <popey> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9001509/Anthony-Worrall-Thompson-cautioned-over-cheese-and-wine-theft.html
[09:06] <kvarley> It's shocking that people nick stuff out of supermarkets, I mean the amount of CCTV about you think they'd consider the massive chance of getting caught
[09:06] <kvarley> AlanBell: Errrr, weirdly I can't lol
[09:07] <daftykins> that sneaky funny-voiced chef
[09:07] <popey> i used to work at B&Q HQ near their department that dealt with 'shrinkage'
[09:07]  * AlanBell once wrote a big application to analyse stockloss/shrinkage for duracell/braun/gillette/oralB
[09:07] <popey> was amusing to hear of the various ways people steal stuff from B&Q
[09:07] <daftykins> sounds amusing :D
[09:07] <popey> like throwing power drills over the wall
[09:07] <kvarley> lol
[09:07] <popey> or putting things in bins and buying the bin
[09:07] <daftykins> XD
[09:07] <popey> (they now put the barcode on the inside of the bin to prevent that)
[09:08] <SuperMatt> good idea
[09:08] <kvarley> I wouldn't want the job, but I bet security guards watching the CCTV monitors must see some weird stuff
[09:08] <SuperMatt> though I imagine people still try
[09:08] <popey> of course they do
[09:08] <popey> all stores suffer shrinkage
[09:08] <popey> even amazon ☺
[09:08]  * kvarley feels dirty. Installing windows 8 in vbox :/
[09:09] <SuperMatt> my ex worked at a clothes store. someone pulled off the tag, which set off the alarm, and stuffed it in his bag
[09:09] <SuperMatt> unfortunately, the store only had female staff, and he was a big guy and so everyone just let him walk out
[09:09] <SuperMatt> the store never thought to hire security
[09:10] <dwatkins> many shops I go to in the UK don't have security
[09:10] <daftykins> hah
[09:11] <daftykins> permanent security in a Tesco in Chelsea amused me :>
[09:11] <dwatkins> yeah, we have security in Tesco Express
[09:11] <daftykins> i don't think any shops here on Guernsey have security
[09:11] <dwatkins> probably because it sells alcohol
[09:13] <daftykins> heh places do here too
[09:13] <AlanBell> couple of guys ripped an iPhone out of the display in carphone warehouse farnham when I was in there
[09:13] <daftykins> not far to run on an island, mind
[09:14] <daftykins> sad what some will do
[09:14] <AlanBell> little guy ran off with it, big chap walked out really slowly just to make sure nobody gave chase
[09:20] <dwatkins> the alarms go off all the time in PC Worlds I visit, I just walk away calmly and hope they don't suspect me... ;)
[09:20] <diplo> Morning all
[09:21] <daftykins> hai
[09:23] <SuperMatt> if the alarm goes off in a store I'm in, I'll stop, turn around and look for any guards coming for me and, if no one cares, I just keep walking
[09:25] <daftykins> whether you've stolen something or not? :)
[09:27] <dwatkins> A friend of mine spent a week trying to get the tag off a piece of clothing he'd been given as a present - the person in the shop his girlfriend bought it from forgot to remove it. He ended up going into a shop with the receipt and getting them to remove it, but it took several shops before he found one with the same kind of tag.
[09:27] <dwatkins> we tried using magnets first, even hard disk magnets, but no joy
[09:27] <SuperMatt> I haven't stolen anything, beyong penny sweets when I didn't know better
[09:28] <SuperMatt> I've walked out of a shop with clothes still entagged. Walked past the guard, through the barriers, and nothing went off
[09:28] <daftykins> dwatkins: heh, curious tech
[09:28] <daftykins> i bought a pair of jeans in Miami, they've got this little lump stuck inside that you can feel just above one of the pockets
[09:29] <dwatkins> daftykins: yeah, it's fascinating - I think it does use magnets, but not sure how - we didn't want to open it in case it was filled with dye
[09:29] <daftykins> i imagine maybe someday i'll be pulled aside wearing them and it'll be some illegal substance stuck in there ¬_¬
[09:29] <dwatkins> what if you wear them going back into the store, daftykins?
[09:29] <daftykins> haha i'm a long way from Miami right now
[09:31] <popey> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2085920 - XDA guy sets up a petition to request that Canonical works with the XDA-Developer community..
[09:32] <AlanBell> well I would imagine it is in Canonical's interests for aftermarket installs to happen
[09:33] <daftykins> you know they'll find a way themselves if not
[09:35] <popey> exactly
[09:37] <mungbean> how many VM installs are there? over 2M?
[09:37] <mungbean> ^VM^CM
[09:37] <mungbean> i'd love a dual boot ubuntu/androidCM tablet
[09:37] <mungbean> especially a transfromer type thing
[09:38] <mungbean> actually, if a transformer dual booted my 2 favourite OS i wouldn't need a laptop
[09:39] <directhex> CM is a symptom of a horrid disease
[09:39] <dwatkins> Android being slow? ;)
[09:40] <directhex> handset vendors' android images
[09:40] <directhex> with the bloat, and the never upgrading beyond 2.3
[09:40] <mungbean> there's a reason for that we all know
[09:41] <daftykins> heh
[09:42] <daftykins> it's surprising the crap that comes on modern samsungs
[09:42] <mungbean> i know plenty of htc desire owners who still have the phone because it meets their needs when it runs CM
[09:42] <daftykins> that's my phone
[09:42] <daftykins> but having the 150MB /data makes it unusable practically
[09:42] <mungbean> i fixed that
[09:42] <daftykins> install a few apps and oh look, busted
[09:43] <daftykins> data2SD?
[09:43] <mungbean> S2E
[09:43] <mungbean> make a 500mb partition on SDcard and it moves cache and /data over there seamlessly
[09:43] <daftykins> impressive
[09:44] <directhex> i like windows phone :<
[09:44] <mungbean> directhex: you are the 1%
[09:45] <popey> you forgot a decimal there mungbean
[09:45] <daftykins> XD
[09:47] <directhex> can't find any meaningful up to date market share numbers for smartphones
[09:47] <directhex> i guess they do them in march, for the financial year, or somesuch
[09:48] <daftykins> whenever they feel like making sweeping generalisations
[09:51] <directhex> i still like windows phone. android gives me stomach ulcers
[09:52] <mungbean> on bbc click they often feature a WM app
[09:52] <mungbean> which makes me wonder about their objectivity
[09:52] <mungbean> why feature a phoen with 1% share
[09:52] <popey> why feature linux with <1% market share ☺
[09:53] <daftykins> i saw someone in a row in front of me on a bus using a windows phone, it looked so unintuitive :>
[09:53] <daftykins> BBC tech reporting is pretty dire ;/
[09:53] <dwatkins> Good news, everyone! http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2013/01/ubuntu-gets-1-percent-share-in-steam.html
[09:54] <popey> ☺
[09:54] <mungbean> i haven't installed it yet
[09:54] <popey> i have it on two machines, so i am probably not helping the stats
[09:54] <kvarley> Are those stats counting all installs of Steam on windows, or all active installs?
[09:54] <popey> mind you I also have it on two windows partitions, cancelling out the benefit
[09:54] <popey> oh, and two macs
[09:55] <dwatkins> kvarley: I imagine it's ones which are active/used recently
[09:55] <dwatkins> they do regular hardware surveys which also check OS version
[09:55] <kvarley> dwatkins: Ok
[09:55] <dwatkins> "Steam conducts a monthly survey to collect data about what kinds of computer hardware and software our customers are using."
[09:55] <kvarley> 1% share and it's still in beta :)
[09:56] <dwatkins> from the linked article :)
[09:56] <dwatkins> indeed, kvarley - this makes me wonder what the true figure in terms of Ubuntu penetration is in the desktop market
[09:56] <popey> "tens of millions"
[09:56] <dwatkins> if this is 'home users who installed the Steam beta who have a reasonably fast PC', the true number of users must be quite a lot, perhaps the same percentage of overall users, perhaps more
[09:56] <directhex> daftykins, android is hardly a pinnacle of intuitive behaviour. although webos won on that :p
[09:57] <popey> Android makes me cry too
[09:57] <daubers> I liked WebOS
[09:58] <daubers> just a shame the hardware sucked a bit
[09:58] <directhex> i'd love to recommend a free software smartphone platform to people. i would. but i'm a realist, and like things to stand on their merits. android's merits are "cheap" and "lots of apps"
[09:58] <kvarley> popey: Steam Linux has tens of millions of users or Ubuntu?
[09:58] <directhex> so the steam hardware survey is based upon recent active users. as it happens, we know how many people are using steam at any given moment
[09:59] <directhex> i.e. 3.6 million right now
[09:59] <directhex> it cycles through the day
[09:59] <directhex> from about 3.2 million on a monday morning when most pc-gamer regions are asleep, to 6.7 million when america is on the weekend
[09:59] <directhex> so ubuntu's 1% of steam is 1% of that
[10:00] <directhex> although, of course, this is comparing simultaneous current users to monthly active users, which are different measures
[10:00] <directhex> but it's still a reasonable approximation to say "there are tens of thousands of people using steam on ubuntu right now"
[10:00] <daftykins> directhex: guess that's why they had to take some of webOS' ideas :>
[10:01] <daftykins> android feels more natural to me than iOS at least :D
[10:01] <popey> kvarley: ubuntu
[10:01] <kvarley> popey: :)
[10:02] <directhex> good artists borrow; great artists steal
[10:02] <kvarley> Would it be bad for me to buy a Chromebook for a relative who wants a cheap laptop with the sole intention of putting Ubuntu on it?
[10:03] <popey> what's their use-case?
[10:07] <kvarley> popey: Web browsing, email, watching TV/Film via Lovefilm Instant, LibreOffice
[10:07] <mungbean> sounds like they want a cheap laptop
[10:08] <directhex> using ubuntu for lovefilm?
[10:08] <kvarley> directhex: Just flash videos
[10:08] <daftykins> they really got the beans for a full OS and such video sites?
[10:09] <kvarley> They're currently on xubuntu
[10:09] <popey> lovefilm requires silverlight
[10:09] <kvarley> Have been for ~5 years
[10:09] <kvarley> popey: They changed it?
[10:09] <directhex> lovefilm requires silverlight and playready drm
[10:09] <kvarley> Used to be flash I thought
[10:09] <kvarley> Lame
[10:09] <directhex> yeah, it was flash before, what, january 2011?
[10:10] <kvarley> Haven't used it in a long time lol
[10:10] <kvarley> No html5 love yet from streaming sites
[10:10] <dwatkins> I thought HTML5 didn't support any kind of DRM
[10:10] <dwatkins> (which kind of seems a bit silly to me, since it means companies like Lovefilm will have to continue to use Silverlight)
[10:11] <kvarley> dwatkins: They don't need DRM
[10:11] <directhex> there was a DRM proposal for html5 video
[10:11] <kvarley> They just think they do because of their outdated and ridiculous business model
[10:11] <dwatkins> kvarley: agreed, although that's a separate discussion ;)
[10:11] <directhex> although ultimately the <video> tag does not specify any codecs or anything, so you could just use copy-protected WMV files in a <video>
[10:11] <kvarley> dwatkins: True :)
[10:11]  * dwatkins imagines books being sold with a padlock on them
[10:12] <kvarley> directhex: I'd hurt them, breaking standards
[10:12] <popey> anyway, no, no lovefilm on chromeos or ubuntu
[10:12] <directhex> it's not breaking standards. the standard does not specify a codec.
[10:13] <kvarley> popey: Back to the drawing board then. Thanks anyway
[10:13] <popey> why lovefilm on a laptop?
[10:13] <popey> do they travel a lot?
[10:13] <dwatkins> personally I think not supporting linux is rude and shortsighted, but I understand it from a business perspective - less than 2% of desktop users probably use linux
[10:14] <diplo> there was a petition type thing on their developer forums
[10:14] <directhex> lovefilm don't get any choice here.
[10:14] <diplo> Lots of people want to integrate into things like xbmc
[10:14] <directhex> the use of silverlight/playready is mandated by the studios
[10:14] <BigRedS> None of my window buttons (close, minimise etc.) are working, and nor is alt-tab but I'd really rather not log out and back in again 'cause I've a long-running process I don't want to restart
[10:14] <directhex> who have been paid off by MS to believe that it's the only way to keep their media "safe"
[10:15] <kvarley> We're back to hollywood being backward
[10:15] <BigRedS> is there something I can run/restart that might help?
[10:15] <BigRedS> this is Unity
[10:15] <popey> ooh
[10:15] <popey> alt+f2, unity, enter
[10:15] <popey> ?
[10:15] <BigRedS> yeah, did that, it redrew everything and came back the same
[10:15] <dwatkins> kvarley: the music industry is probably paranoid they'll lose their profits to a Napster-a-like
[10:15] <dwatkins> so the film industry follows suit
[10:16] <kvarley> dwatkins: The music industry are getting semi-sane, you can buy DRM free stuff now
[10:16] <BigRedS> it's on 13.04 as whatever apt gave me on friday
[10:16] <dwatkins> ooh neat
[10:16] <BigRedS> Ah, wait, process is actually on a different host
[10:17] <kvarley> dwatkins: The film industry is just backwards. They need to make it easier as a customer to buy their films digitally worldwide in a DRM free format that compares to the pirated version of that content otherwise the piracy problem will just carry on and they'll annoy all their paying customers.
[10:18] <dwatkins> kvarley: indeed, and they need to do away with this 'staged release' model, so we can talk about films across the world without the issue that people will have to wait months to see them legally\
[10:18] <directhex> the music industry were forced to change, by consumer backlash
[10:18] <directhex> video hasn't had that same backlash
[10:18] <dwatkins> true, just lots of piracy
[10:19] <dwatkins> there's a rather insightful TheOatmeal cartoon about all this: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
[10:19] <directhex> they don't care about piracy, not really
[10:19] <directhex> they care about market control
[10:19] <kvarley> What's even more annoying is they over charge for bad quality over sized video files riddled with DRM.
[10:20] <dwatkins> kvarley: I noticed the new Disney film (Wreck-it Ralph) being touted as available online, but only if you actually buy the disc.
[10:20] <kvarley> dwatkins: Yeah...stupid.
[10:20] <directhex> dwatkins, ah, but it gets better
[10:20] <kvarley> If you're going to buy the disc you aren't going to watch it online. And if you want to watch it online you sure aren't gonna buy the disc.
[10:21] <kvarley> Are discs still shipping with ads you can't skip?
[10:21] <diplo> yep
[10:21] <directhex> Wreck It Wralph comes out on region A blu-ray on march 5th. it doesn't come out in the cinema in the UK until february 8th. region B blu-ray will be 4-5 months after that
[10:21] <AlanBell> that annoys me, particularly on kids films
[10:21] <directhex> why?
[10:21] <directhex> because screw you, english people!
[10:22] <kvarley> do they have to wait to get permissions to distribute it in different regions or something?
[10:22] <kvarley> or is it just them being lazy
[10:22] <directhex> (actually not the reason. the reasons are twofold - to ensure the film is released in time for the main relevant school holidays: thanksgiving in the UK, and half term in the UK)
[10:22] <AlanBell> they want to milk one market completely before moving on to the next
[10:22] <directhex> (second reason: so they can recycle the english language discs across every country)
[10:23] <directhex> i.e. send reel to US cinemas, then once it stops being shown in the US, send to next english-speaking country
[10:23] <directhex> repeat ad infinitum
[10:23] <daftykins> more convenient to run illegal rips than buy legit BDs and sit and wait for loading :>
[10:23] <kvarley> daftykins: That's their problem right there
[10:23] <directhex> BD load times are crazy, but i'm sick of the low quality of rips compared to BD
[10:24] <kvarley> They're so focussed on controlling their media to stop the so called piracy wars they make it worse
[10:24] <directhex> no your 720p mkv isn't blu-ray quality. go away.
[10:24] <daftykins> why 720p 0o
[10:24] <kvarley> directhex: Surely that depends massively on whoever make the mkv.
[10:24] <daftykins> i doubt there's much diff
[10:25] <directhex> daftykins, i guess because pirates want to save disk space. dunno. 720p seems to be the norm for movie rips these days
[10:25] <directhex> whereas a full blu-ray rip should be 20-40GB for one movie
[10:25] <daftykins> i get everything 1080, not that my TV is even that res :D
[10:25] <daftykins> no that's only when you have like 4 audio tracks
[10:25] <directhex> i strip the audio tracks.
[10:26] <directhex> down to 5.1
[10:26] <directhex> english only
[10:26] <directhex> let me boot my desktop, it's got my rips on
[10:26] <kvarley> directhex: Don't forget the media industry suck at encoding so their 40GB rip can be brought down in size by a proper encoding method.
[10:26] <daftykins> then there's sometimes DD, DTS, then the HD formats
[10:26] <directhex> kvarley, transcoding lossy->lossy isn't a great plan though, something is always lost from that
[10:27] <kvarley> Yes, but you will barely notice if it's done right.
[10:27] <dwatkins> directhex: sorry, was elsewhere, yeah, crazy release times
[10:27] <kvarley> You could say the same about cinema reel -> bluray
[10:28] <daftykins> if reel is still alive :)
[10:28] <directhex> reels are somewhat higher quality than blu-ray
[10:28] <directhex> and yeah, "reel" is an anachronism. they actually send hard disks around
[10:28] <kvarley> directhex: they're way higher quality than blurays
[10:28] <kvarley> Camera equipment that they use can do way higher resolutions
[10:29] <popey> timely... https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/288199968932630528
[10:29] <kvarley> popey: I retweeted that this morn :)
[10:30] <dwatkins> popey: sounds very much like what I've been hearing people say for years, good to see someone who is in the media spolight (perhaps 'infamous') say it
[10:30] <kvarley> What's amusing is the movie industry seem to think piracy is about getting content for free. For the minority of users it might be. But for the majority it's simply them getting a better service by not paying for content.
[10:31] <kvarley> Services like Netflix are starting to get the idea, but they're not quite there yet
[10:31] <dwatkins> kvarley: indeed, when it's infinitely easier to get something by torrenting it, this doesn't surprise me that so many people do - for music, iTunes makes it so easy to buy that people don't bother torrenting it anywhere near as much, from what I can tell
[10:31] <popey> s/torrent/usenet/
[10:31] <dwatkins> popey: yeah, that too
[10:31] <directhex> wreck it wralph is apparently "only" in 2K.
[10:31] <kvarley> popey: I hate to be a noob. But what is that notation, I've seen it before but have no idea what it is
[10:32] <popey> search and replace
[10:32] <kvarley> popey: Ah ok
[10:32] <directhex> regular expression search & replace
[10:37] <kvarley> Anybody know where virtualbox logs are stored?
[10:37] <directhex> ~/.VirtualBox ?
[10:38] <kvarley> Thanks :)
[10:38] <popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/LGjXM
[10:38] <popey> gosh, never knew that
[10:39] <daftykins> heh
[10:39] <Laney> yeah they sell presentation packs with the coins arranged in that wa y
[10:39] <daftykins> pound coin doesn't get a look-in
[10:39] <daftykins> so glad we have pound notes down here
[10:40] <daftykins> your money is ridiculous :>
[10:40] <daftykins> £20 notes are nice though
[10:40] <directhex> oh, here we go
[10:40] <daftykins> no no, i'm done :>
[10:40] <directhex> so, my smallest blu-ray rip: 11G	A Scanner Darkly [HD].mkv
[10:40] <daftykins> oic
[10:40] <directhex> and largest: 37G	Watchmen [HD].mkv
[10:40] <daftykins> hrmm
[10:40] <diplo> popey: I didn't no that either
[10:41] <daftykins> how many audio tracks in Watchmen?
[10:41] <directhex> i told you, i stripped all of these
[10:41] <directhex> so one. english, 5.1
[10:41] <daftykins> oh i thought you'd dump 1:1 then prune
[10:41] <directhex>     Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264 (High), yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 23.98 fps, 23.98 tbr, 1k tbn, 47.95 tbc (default)
[10:41] <directhex>     Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 640 kb/s (default)
[10:42] <daftykins> you not got a DTS or better capable receiver?
[10:43] <directhex> hang on, i think that movie only had ac3 or wav
[10:43] <directhex> box just says dolby
[10:44] <daftykins> shocking
[10:44] <directhex> big file may be related to 3 hour movie
[10:45] <ali1234> has anyone seen the total recall remake?
[10:45] <popey> yes
[10:45] <mungbean> i have a dvd player that seems to be able to skip a larger portion of things that my other dvd player can't
[10:45] <diplo> Yep
[10:46] <daftykins> i've yet to ever get around to making the HTPC playback at 24fps to avoid the frame insertion
[10:46] <ali1234> in the trailer he had once of those suits like keanu has in a scanner darkly
[10:46] <ali1234> a face scrambler
[10:46] <daftykins> :D
[10:46] <ali1234> i thought that was cool
[10:46] <daftykins> i liked that idea
[10:46] <ali1234> i'm sure one of the scrambled faces is keanu as well
[10:46] <directhex> i haven't gotten around to watching a scanner darkly yet
[10:46] <ali1234> other than that, the remake looks bad
[10:46] <directhex> it was my first blu-ray too :<
[10:46] <daftykins> in fact i'd quite like to see that film again in a decent quality
[10:46] <ali1234> lol
[10:47] <ali1234> watch it, it's good
[10:47] <ali1234> robert downey jr is good in it
[10:47] <directhex> pfft, sod the remake
[10:47] <directhex> 18G	Total Recall [HD].mkv
[10:47] <daftykins> i watched Dredd the other day, terrible imo =/
[10:47] <popey> Yeah, A Scanner Darkly is an enjoyable film
[10:47] <directhex> i also have the original dawn of the dead in here
[10:47] <ali1234> you didn't accidentaly watch the stallone one did you?
[10:47] <popey> \o/ zombie mall
[10:48] <diplo> I've not heard of Scannwr Darkly?
[10:48]  * diplo googles
[10:48] <diplo> or Imdb's
[10:48] <directhex> philip k dick adaptation
[10:48] <diplo> directhex: What do you use to play yours ?
[10:48] <daftykins> i just finished reading P K Dick's 'Do Androids...'
[10:49] <daftykins> far more interesting than Blade Runner, which was still great
[10:49] <directhex> diplo, my what?
[10:49] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:49] <daftykins> elephants of course
[10:49] <diplo> Sorry, play the films ?
[10:49] <daftykins> hai brobostigon o/
[10:50] <brobostigon> hi daftykins o/
[10:51] <directhex> diplo, VLC is fine for every rip except for one
[10:51] <diplo> Looks odd ( Scanner Darkly )
[10:51] <diplo> I use xbmc, all files are stored in a hp microserver
[10:52] <directhex> i can actually stream from pc to tv with dnla
[10:52] <directhex> it plays mkv fine
[10:52] <directhex> but it uses less power to just put the disc in the ps3 than have pc on
[10:53] <daftykins> a fair point, i started thinking of power consumption ahead of moving out
[10:53] <bashrc> scanner darkly is a classic movie
[10:53] <daftykins> too recent to be classic :>
[10:54] <bashrc> I have a few DVDs, but I've never tried to rip them.  What's the best software to do it with?
[10:56] <dwatkins> my Raspberry Pi plays MVK files off a netbook/server rather nicely
[10:56] <directhex> makemkv is a spectacular ripping app, if you don't want to transcode
[10:56] <directhex> if you want to transcode, use handbrake instead
[10:56] <directhex> makemkv earns "rips any blu-ray" points
[10:56] <diplo> One thing I need to buy is a bluray drive for my pc
[10:57] <dwatkins> diplo: likewise
[10:58] <daftykins> had someone in the xbmc channels just before saying the r-pi's can't handle full 1080p and surround audio to stereo decode
[10:58] <directhex> this drive is old... old enough that it reads hd-dvd too
[10:58] <daftykins> that's game over for me
[10:58] <dwatkins> daftykins: which is the xbmc channel, just #xbmc?
[10:58] <bashrc> http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=224
[10:58] <daftykins> dwatkins: yeah, although there's a -linux sub too
[10:58] <ali1234> daftykins: it depends on the format
[10:58] <directhex> daftykins, rpi can do pretty much anything as long as the gpu does it, and nothing if the cpu does it. cpu is an iphone 3g
[10:58] <dwatkins> neat
[10:59] <ali1234> it can't do 1080p mpeg2 even if you buy the decoder
[10:59] <directhex> ali1234, sure. but that's done by the gpu, not the cpu.
[11:00] <daftykins> incoming postie :O
[11:00] <ali1234> point being?
[11:00] <daftykins> if you two met i bet you'd chew each others faces off with pedantry
[11:01] <directhex> i'm very nice in real life.
[11:02] <daftykins> i saw you once!
[11:02] <daftykins> ^_^
[11:02] <daftykins> though i was but a mere child
[11:03]  * directhex rips his new kung fu panda BD
[11:04] <dwatkins> I need a BD reader in my PC, but it's silver, so I don't have many options of which drive to get
[11:04] <popey> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/eea5/
[11:05] <popey> want
[11:05] <dwatkins> unless I want an ugly white or black drive
[11:05] <daftykins> dwatkins: there used to be those coolermaster optical drive accessories that act as faces to cover ugly ones behind
[11:05] <dwatkins> so many things on that website I want... including the bluetooth headset gloves ;)
[11:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:05] <dwatkins> daftykins: nice - the only way I've found is to get a slot-loading drive and silver drive holder
[11:06] <directhex> what brand is the case?
[11:06] <daftykins> i'd avoid slot loaders like the plague they are
[11:06] <daftykins> how else will i use my heart shaped CDs!?
[11:06] <daftykins> ;)
[11:06] <directhex> wife's PC is red, has a red drive cover pre-fitted
[11:08] <dwatkins> directhex: it's a Lian Li aluminium case
[11:08] <directhex> well, that's handy
[11:08] <daftykins> daym, those used to be all the rage back in the day - and i never knew why
[11:09] <dwatkins> the stainless steel construction makes the flux capacitor....
[11:09] <directhex> http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=286&cl_index=2&sc_index=6&ss_index=38&g=f
[11:09] <dwatkins> ooh nice
[11:09] <daftykins> :O
[11:09] <dwatkins> shame they don't have a picture of the silver one, I may have to get that for my existing drive, then
[11:10] <directhex> like i said, wife has a red drive cover :D
[11:10] <directhex> wife's case is a lian-li pc-v354r
[11:10] <dwatkins> awesome, Overclockers UK sell them
[11:10] <dwatkins> thanks directhex - nice find
[11:10]  * dwatkins will check the model number later
[11:11] <daftykins> one i remembered was discontinued sadly :(
[11:11] <dwatkins> my case has a little flap at the base of the front with USB ports
[11:12] <dwatkins> they probably redesigned it because the flap broke so easily, for one thing
[11:13] <daftykins> if i ever 'upgrade' i'd probably upgrade case just to get USB 3 ports =/
[11:13] <dwatkins> I bought a D-Link 7-port hub for work because my Mac only has 2 USB poerts
[11:13] <dwatkins> ports even
[11:13] <dwatkins> really nice hub, has 2 high current ports
[11:13] <daftykins> bet that has a lovely plasticy feel, good ol' D-Link
[11:15] <dwatkins> hehe, a little - not so bad though
[11:17] <directhex> i'd like a new pc. this one's like 4 years old :<
[11:18] <directhex> can still play most games on ~high though. thanks, home consoles, for keeping PC games held back!
[11:21] <dwatkins> I recently bought a PC off a friend, it's a quad-core core2duo, and plays all my games fine since installing a 2nd hand AMD 6590
[11:21] <daftykins> yep then you'd have blown the money on the upgrade and instead you'd be saying 'damn you consoles, why didn't you anchor things!?'
[11:21] <daftykins> ok you'd never say that, granted
[11:24] <BigRedS> Blimey. Just found an account on a website that I've had since the year 2000, that's probably the longest I've ever been a member of anything
[11:24] <daftykins> google'll tell ya
[11:27] <directhex> apparently i7 920 is still an okay cpu
[11:27] <directhex> not fab, but okay
[11:28]  * daubers is about to buy an i5 3570k
[11:51] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/QLF0h.gif?1
[11:51] <daftykins> this, this amuses me
[11:51] <dwatkins> just the cpu, daubers?
[11:52] <dwatkins> daftykins: hahaha, me too - finally the truth comes out
[11:52] <daftykins> :D
[11:53] <daubers> dwatkins: I already have the mobo and PSU, just need SSD, RAM, CPU
[11:53] <daftykins> dwatkins: ^5
[11:53] <daftykins> why buy piece by piece 0o
[11:53] <daubers> Mobo was a chrombo present
[11:54] <daftykins> sounds painful
[11:56] <popey> can't remember the last time I built a PC
[11:56] <popey> oh, yes I can.. PIII 400MHz
[11:56] <popey> maybe 12 years ago
[11:56] <popey> perhaps less
[11:57] <daftykins> aww, missing all the fun!
[11:57] <popey> oh no, wikipedia says that's about right
[12:01] <daftykins> my first PIII kept slipping out of the slot :(
[12:01] <daftykins> SECC was pretty terrible
[12:02] <dwatkins> last PC I built was the fastest 32-bit AMD CPU that I could get, iirc a 3200
[12:02] <dwatkins> this was just when core2duo cpus came out
[12:02] <daftykins> Athlon64?
[12:02] <directhex> i've put a few extras in here over time, but it's basically a core i7 920, on socket 1366 (remember that?)
[12:03] <daftykins> ^_^
[12:03] <daftykins> *pats LGA775*
[12:04] <daubers> Heh :)
[12:04] <daftykins> i should go and look at that RAID again today
[12:04] <daubers> I'm replacing my 2010 Mac Mini, decided to self build so I can slowly improve it
[12:04] <daftykins> the one with 4 wonky disks
[12:05] <daubers> heh fun :)
[12:05] <daftykins> indeed :(
[12:05] <daftykins> i put replacement disk #1 in, to replace the most bad sector'd one
[12:05] <daftykins> it still stayed stuck at 15% rebuilt
[12:05] <daftykins> i enabled ignoreECC
[12:05] <daubers> not good
[12:05] <daftykins> not seen the result yet
[12:05] <daubers> what RAID controller is it?
[12:05] <daftykins> 9650SE
[12:05] <daftykins> 3ware
[12:06] <daubers> oooh.... ok
[12:07] <daftykins> i saw the light on solid for the other degraded drive next to the one i replaced
[12:07] <daftykins> i think it's trying to rebuild that as a priority, but it has bad sectors too
[12:07] <daftykins> i could pull that one out and rebuild to just the newly inserted replacement, but then i'd have two out and be at danger level given it's RAID 6
[12:07] <daftykins> not sure that's a good idea =/
[12:08] <daftykins> might be best i pull that one and dd it to a new as you mentioned you've done, but then the controller won't see the drive as rebuilt so it'll still want to do the whole thing again i think
[12:08] <daubers> Yes, but at least it'll have a running start
[12:08] <daftykins> true
[12:08] <daubers> tbh I'd clone all the drives to images so you have a fallback position
[12:08] <daftykins> haha i don't have the storage to put them on
[12:09] <daubers> Heh :) I've not had that problem
[12:09] <daftykins> ;)
[12:09] <daftykins> best i've done is document my actions
[12:09] <daftykins> right, best spruce myself up and consider heading there
[12:10] <daftykins> if it's sat stuck at 15% again i don't even know what i'll do next
[12:10] <daftykins> i don't really expect it will be though
[12:11] <daubers> Good luck!
[12:12] <daftykins> ty :)
[12:21]  * daftykins heads off
[12:25] <ali1234> has anyone actually seen an ARM server in the wild yet?
[12:25] <SuperMatt> not yet
[12:28] <AlanBell> not counting raspberry pi, no
[12:32] <bigcalm> I'll serve YOUR arm
[12:32] <bigcalm> Oh, wrong channel
[12:52] <popey> .55
[12:52] <popey> bah
[12:57] <kvarley> AlanBell: Phoronix benchmarked a cluster setup of beagleboard or pandaboards. Whether it actually went on to be used as I server I don't know
[12:58] <popey> there's "proper" servers on the way, the calxeda ones are on trial I believe
[13:10] <popey> AlanBell: saw this and thought of you http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/things-learned-pretending-to-be-blind-for-a-week/
[13:17] <AlanBell> interesting article
[13:18] <kvarley> Every web dev should be trying their production sites with a screen reader with their monitor off
[13:18] <kvarley> Maybe that way we'd have less "click here" links
[13:18] <AlanBell> and unity dev :)
[13:18] <kvarley> AlanBell: That too :)
[13:18] <AlanBell> I want to try orca on the phone
[13:19] <AlanBell> popey: do you know if anyone has thought about accessibility for the phone
[13:19] <kvarley> If they haven't I will be shocked
[13:20] <kvarley> Accessibility covers so many things tho
[13:20] <kvarley> You could say that the launcher setup is accessibility concerned
[13:20] <AlanBell> oh I know that, I just want to know if the design spec includes speech dispatcher and the at-spi stuff for Qt/QML
[13:21] <AlanBell> and if anyone has tried it
[13:21] <kvarley> popey: Is orca the best Linux screen reading software? are there any purely HTML ones (addons for browsers , etc) ?
[13:23] <AlanBell> orca is the screen reader for gnome, there is chromevox for chrome
[13:23] <AlanBell> but that won't help you get around the desktop
[13:24] <AlanBell> orca tells espeak what to say, but orca can be plugged into other speech synths
[13:24] <kvarley> AlanBell: That's an interesting point, I was assuming as a web dev the screen reader would read html sourcecode but that might not be the cas
[13:24] <kvarley> *case
[13:25] <AlanBell> no, it navigates the visual elements
[13:25] <AlanBell> try it
[13:26] <kvarley> That's interesting alt + tab works but on pidgin it won't then read out the title of each window
[13:27] <popey> i dont know AlanBell
[13:28] <kvarley> That's bad, can't get it to read text on a web page just the links via tab
[13:29] <AlanBell> there are lots of keybindings for orca
[13:29] <AlanBell> the insert key or capslock key becomes the "orca modifier"
[13:30] <AlanBell> do you have a keyboard with a number pad?
[13:30] <kvarley> Yeah
[13:30] <kvarley> It's reading your messages out which is nice
[13:30] <AlanBell> ok, then insert is your modifier
[13:30] <AlanBell> and 789 do lines
[13:31] <bigcalm> How does one check if a package has been installed via a PPA or not?
[13:31] <kvarley> bigcalm: Synaptic, search, filter isntalled, origin PPA of whatever
[13:31] <AlanBell> 465 do words and 123 do letters in flat review mode - basically that gives you a separate "reading" cursor position to your writing caret position
[13:31] <AlanBell> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/2.32/orca-desktop-keys.html.en
[13:33] <bigcalm> Ah, seems I am using a PPA. Shame it hasn't been updated :(
[13:34] <bigcalm> Not since April. Might be missing some features on this package
[13:34] <mungbean> anyone tried geary email client?
[13:35] <kvarley> AlanBell: I always had respect for people who are visually impaired. But the fact that they are able to navigate these tools quickly and efficiently is a skill.
[13:36] <dwatkins> kvarley / directhex / daftykins / popey - just encountered this link relevant to our earlier discussion: http://falkvinge.net/2013/01/07/is-the-copyright-industry-really-shooting-itself-in-the-foot/
[13:42] <diplo> Pretty much how i see it as well dwatkins, not sure how much longer they'll sustain it though
[14:05] <czajkowski> aloha
[14:05] <ali1234> i wonder if falkvinge still has his $30 bitcoins
[14:28] <mungbean> is mkfile still a real command?
[14:28] <SuperMatt> mkfile?
[14:28] <SuperMatt> does to create an empty file?
[14:29] <mungbean> yes
[14:29] <SuperMatt> touch
[14:29] <mungbean> to create a 4GB file?
[14:29] <SuperMatt> uhm
[14:29] <mungbean> dd
[14:29] <SuperMatt> I see what you mean
[14:29] <mungbean> maybe mkfile is a throwback to my solaris days
[14:29] <SuperMatt> dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/your/file bs=1G count=4
[14:30] <mungbean> yeah, bit lame eh?
[14:31] <popey> truncate -s 4G /path/to/your/file
[14:32] <popey> or fallocate
[14:32] <SuperMatt> looks like mkfile doesn't exist
[14:34] <SuperMatt> why does fallocate sound like a rude word to me?
[14:39] <davmor2> SuperMatt: because you have a filthy mind :P
[14:39] <SuperMatt> ah yes, that old chestnut
[14:40] <davmor2> your mind is an old chestnut.....That might do it too
[14:40]  * SuperMatt dribbles on the desk
[14:41] <mungbean> my machine locked up for the entire dd operation
[14:41] <mungbean> is that right?
[14:42] <SuperMatt> no...
[14:42] <mungbean> its a fast machine
[14:42] <mungbean> the mouse hardly moved, and i couldn't click. then got loads of "unrepsonsive script" from chomr/thunderbird
[14:43] <SuperMatt> hurm
[14:43] <SuperMatt> well, it would be doing a lot of disk io, so that could explain it
[14:44] <mungbean> yes but freezing up the machine
[14:44] <mungbean> happens during large dist-upgrade too
[14:44] <mungbean> (more i/o)
[14:44] <mungbean> on diferent linux machines
[14:44] <mungbean> gonna try the same thing in elementary
[14:46] <popey> known bug
[14:47] <mungbean> popey: realyl?
[14:47] <popey> bug 1030516
[14:47] <popey> perhaps
[14:47] <mungbean> its a local disk
[14:47] <popey> yes
[14:47] <mungbean> more like DE freezes during io
[14:47] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1030516/comments/9
[14:47] <popey> try that
[14:48] <popey> yes, that happens
[14:48] <mungbean> i've switched machines to try to get around this
[14:48] <popey> maybe try the suggestion from andy in comment 9
[14:48] <mungbean> i've wondered for a while about schedulers
[14:49] <mungbean> but nobody else seems to mention the problem
[14:52] <BigRedS> I've seen a fair bit about I/O schedulers
[14:52] <BigRedS> recently. Since people have started fiddling with SSDs
[14:53] <mungbean> the bug expired ,no feedback
[14:53] <BigRedS> Ah, I meant more with our customers talking to us about them
[14:53] <mungbean> some guy called popey never responded after "will try next week"
[14:54] <BigRedS> tsk tsk
[14:54] <BigRedS> He's always complaining about ubuntu on Launchpad
[14:54] <BigRedS> :)
[14:56] <mungbean> using guake for irc is quite useful
[14:56] <SuperMatt> I just use gnome-terminal
[14:57] <BigRedS> I use guake for all terminal things
[14:57] <SuperMatt> phoronix have just put up an article saying that compiz isn't going to see any more updates
[14:57] <BigRedS> Apart from bug 1058073 it's brilliant
[14:57] <mungbean> when you have multiple terminals you end up fannying around trying to get right terminal
[14:57] <mungbean> SuperMatt: did you read about smspillaz leaving canonical
[14:57] <BigRedS> I just wish it had the screen-splitting abilities of terminator
[14:58] <SuperMatt> I did, that was a while ago, wasn't it?
[14:59] <mungbean> up to 1mth ago
[15:00] <SuperMatt> I'm going to assume that compiz isn't going to be used in the mobile port, which opens the door for a compizless unity
[15:01] <popey> you could extrapolate that couldn't you.
[15:01] <popey> would make sense
[15:01] <mungbean> i wonder if my desktop freeze up is exacerbated in cinnamon
[15:01] <SuperMatt> are you confirming that this is the case, popey?
[15:01] <BigRedS> cinnamon? Party like it's 2003
[15:02] <mungbean> cinnamon has compiz like featuers
[15:02] <davmor2> BigRedS: will byobu-tmux run under guake if so then you could
[15:03] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:03] <BigRedS> but screen in screen makes baby Jesus cry
[15:03] <mungbean> i'm just holding on for elementary
[15:03] <BigRedS> well, it makes me annoyed, which is similarly bad
[15:03] <mungbean> then i'm happy
[15:03] <mungbean> i have unity on my home laptop though
[15:03] <mungbean> cannot use it 10hrs a day will zillions of windows open
[15:04] <davmor2> BigRedS: that's why I said byobu-tmux it uses tmux instead of screen :P
[15:14] <czajkowski> _msm_: boo
[15:15] <_msm_> czajkowski: o/
[15:17] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I did try that briefly, screen in tmux. But that confused my poor little brain
[15:17] <BigRedS> Might try again, but harder this time
[15:18] <davmor2> BigRedS: well instead of using screen use byobu-tmux or byobu and then you get all the screen spliting :D
[15:19] <BigRedS>  yeah, screen has screen-splitting, too
[15:19] <BigRedS> as of Squeeze
[15:19] <BigRedS> and screen's all that's installed on the bastions at work, so that's something I have to use in at least one of the panes
[15:19] <BigRedS> iirc Tmux keystrokes are basically the same as Screen's but shifted one key to the right or something
[15:24] <mungbean> what keystrokes does screen have?
[15:24] <mungbean> ctrl-A is the only one i kow
[15:24] <AlanBell> F2 to create a new window F3/F4 to move around
[15:25] <mungbean> ah
[15:25] <mungbean> i don't have time/mental capacity to become expert in every program anymore :(
[15:25] <mungbean> used to suck it all up like a sponge
[15:30] <popey> ctrl+a, ?   gives you help
[15:42] <mungbean> how long would rezise2fs take on a 500gb ext4 partition?
[15:45] <SuperMatt> gosh, I suppose it depends how full the disk is and how fragmented it is
[15:45] <SuperMatt> that is, if you only had one tiny text file on there at the beginning of the drive, not long at all
[15:46] <mungbean> think i might spin up vmware player instead
[15:46] <SuperMatt> but if you've had that disk for a long time, chances are there are bits of file all over the place, and someone has to tidy that mess
[15:46] <mungbean> only using 40gb
[15:46] <mungbean> but its my OS
[15:47] <SuperMatt> the first thing I do is partition my drive so that I have 50GB put aside for OS, and the rest is my /home
[15:47] <popey> why?
[15:48] <mungbean> separated /home is useful for upgrading i agree
[15:48] <mungbean> unsure why i didn't on this box
[15:49] <SuperMatt> popey: upgrading
[15:50] <SuperMatt> from time to time I like to just wipe the OS partition to get rid of everything
[15:50] <SuperMatt> I wish Windows could do the same
[15:50] <popey> upgrading what?
[15:50] <popey> you can just install over the top
[15:50]  * popey has been telling people this for 2 years now
[15:50] <popey> hey ho
[15:50] <SuperMatt> I know ;)
[15:50] <SuperMatt> but it's just a habbit
[15:51] <mungbean> and trust
[15:51] <mungbean> if the partition isn't mounted then the installer can't shag it
[15:51] <SuperMatt> I just like to know the installer is doing what I want it to do
[15:51] <mungbean> especially if you installing a beta
[15:51] <popey> weirdos
[15:51] <mungbean> even memtest shafted me the other day
[15:51] <mungbean> i nearly thrrew away a good laptop
[15:52] <SuperMatt> I also install other OSes often, and I like them to point to the same /home
[15:52] <SuperMatt> on my laptop though, /home is on the same partition
[16:14] <BigRedS> popey: there does seem to be a fashion for making upgrades as convoluted as reasonably practical
[16:14] <BigRedS> s/practical/possible/
[16:15] <BigRedS> and then grumbling that they've gone wrong.
[16:18] <popey> indeed
[16:18] <popey> I just press the button
[16:18] <DJones> Heh, an RMS interview were he doesn't comment about "ubuntu spyware" :) http://features.slashdot.org/story/13/01/06/163248/richard-stallman-answers-your-questions
[16:19] <SuperMatt> but does he eat the skin from the sole of his foot?
[16:21] <DJones> Thats still a disgusting thought
[16:24] <SuperMatt> did you see the video?
[16:26] <DJones> Thankfully no, I didn't need the eyebleach
[16:27] <SuperMatt> I had to rewind it because I just couldn't believe what I saw
[16:29] <DJones> Couldn't believe or just didn't want to believe :)
[16:29] <mungbean> its understandable
[16:30] <mungbean> he seems the sort of person who would do it at home
[16:31] <mungbean> the way his brain works means that he doesn't consider if it is socially acceptable to do that
[16:33] <SuperMatt> is he autistic or something?
[16:37] <mungbean> IMO he most certainly is on the autistic spectrum
[16:37] <popey> Without a doubt.
[16:37] <mungbean> ticks a lot of aspie boxes for me
[16:38] <mungbean> which means that when you understand the way he acts, he's pretty predictable.
[16:39] <SuperMatt> I've found him predictable for a long time
[16:39] <mungbean> often he's not doing things cos he's a jerk, it just looks like it
[16:40] <SuperMatt> oh of course
[16:40] <SuperMatt> I kinda feel that stallman is losing his relevancy
[16:40] <mungbean> never heard his talks but i expect they are still the same sort of thing
[16:41] <mungbean> he is a necessary extreme
[16:44] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/11/the-software-freedomometer/ he is at the end of the freedomometer
[16:45] <popey> hah
[16:46] <SuperMatt> heh, I like that ballmer is at one end
[16:47] <SuperMatt> I would have put bill gates closer to the middle
[16:47] <SuperMatt> ms was so much better under gates
[16:47] <mungbean> jobs should be at the end
[16:47] <SuperMatt> true, true
[16:47] <AlanBell> it was a discussion starter from 4 years ago :)
[18:28] <ali1234> yeah i just added ballmer: https://github.com/ali1234/jono-qml
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: developers, developers?
[18:30] <ali1234> yes
[18:30] <ali1234> RMS next i think
[18:31] <ali1234> but i can't decide what one word to make him say
[18:31] <ali1234> but probably "freedom"
[18:31] <ali1234> and probably samples from braveheart, for the lulz
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> sabdfl saying 'Ubuntu'?
[18:32] <popey> ali1234: open source
[18:32] <popey> ☺
[18:32] <ali1234> that's two words
[18:32] <ali1234> and he calls it free software
[18:32] <popey> i know ☺
[18:32] <popey> thats the point
[18:33] <popey> but yes, "freedom" woudl be better
[18:33] <ali1234> linus saying linux
[18:33] <ali1234> i know there's at least one sample of that
[18:33] <ali1234> but there's got to be millions
[18:33] <popey> stuart langridge saying "wrong!"
[18:33] <ali1234> or me
[18:33] <popey> heh
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> "Hiya!"
[18:34] <ali1234> meh. it's easy to add people now, cos i made it a component
[18:34] <ali1234> just put the samples and two images into the assets folder
[18:34] <ali1234> and then add it to the ListView
[18:35] <ali1234> i still have no idea where to even start with packaging it
[18:36] <popey> ask mhall119?
[18:36] <popey> he knows these things
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> HE KNOWS
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> H̑͐ͤ͐̎҉̘͙̗̼̭E̛̦̣̰̹̤ͥ͂͂̈͗͑̚ ̞͎̱̖̓͆̓̋̆̔̆͆K̷͕̞̤̬͙͔͓̖̞̾̈́ͬ̎ͯ̏͘Ń̝̙̺̇͑̎̈͌̿̈́O̟̬̹͙̲͔͊̊ͩ̂ͣ͗͊̈͟ͅW̷̯̍̊̒Ş̣̃̊ͤ͌͛
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> that.. didn't work as expected :)
[20:42] <MartijnVdS>  H̑͐ͤ͐̎҉̘͙̗̼E̛̦̣ͥ͂͂̈͗͑̚ ̞͎̓͆̓̋̆̔̆͆K̷͕̾̈́ͬ̎ͯ̏͘Ń̝̇͑̎̈͌̿̈́O̟͊̊ͩ̂ͣ͗͊̈͟W̷̯̍̊̒Ş̣̃̊ͤ͌͛
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> *grr*
[21:09] <Laney> heh
[21:09] <Laney> what are you doing to my client?
[21:12] <jacobw> hmm
[21:51] <bigcalm> Evening all
[21:53] <popey> pip pip
[21:53] <jacobw> toodle doo popey
[22:03]  * Laney got Rum, Sodomy & the Lash for a quid at the weekend
[22:04] <Laney> for me new record player. quality stuff
[22:18] <Azelphur> pretty much finished TV setup, Ubuntu makes a damned good TV :P https://www.dropbox.com/s/qk32bou4vk7xd6s/2013-01-07%2020.58.32.jpg
[22:21] <popey> looks sweet
[22:22] <Azelphur> ty :)
[22:23] <Azelphur> I've got a NFC tag on the coffee table too, it sends you to http://tv which is a little PHP script that detects your OS
[22:24] <Azelphur> if your on android, first time you scan it it sends you to the android market to install yatse, every time after that it opens yatse for you and connects it to the TV
[22:24] <Azelphur> if your on iPhone, sends you to iTunes for XBMC Official remote, if your on anything else it just throws you at the web panel
[22:24] <Azelphur> so I basically sit down and touch my phone to the coffee table and the remote is all ready to go :D
[22:27] <ubuntubhoy> Other than wifi passwords, that's one of the first uses of NFC that makes sense to me Azelphur
[22:28] <Azelphur> ubuntubhoy: what about payments? ;)
[22:28] <ubuntubhoy> Once it becomes more widespread
[22:28] <ubuntubhoy> have you seen some of the looks you get in Greggs paying with your phone
[22:28] <ubuntubhoy> and that's just the staff
[22:29] <Azelphur> I want to pay with my phone, but I havn't found a way to do it yet
[22:29] <Azelphur> :(
[22:29] <Azelphur> afaik the only way to do it in UK at all is with galaxy s3 on orange with barclays
[22:29] <Azelphur> any other combo and nope
[22:29] <ubuntubhoy> if you got in quick enough
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> modaco had a cracked APK
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> and you could setup via proxy
[22:30] <Azelphur> yea, I think I missed that
[22:30] <Azelphur> :(
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> but iirc that loophole os closed
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> is*
[22:30] <Azelphur> sucks that it's just politics getting in the way of us having nice things
[22:31] <Azelphur> I tell you what I want to do, which would be hilarious if I could do it
[22:31] <ubuntubhoy> just think if the i5 had had an NFC chip it would be trickling down everywhere now
[22:31] <Azelphur> I know credit cards use rotating keys and stuff, but apparently you can scan your card and clone it for one time use
[22:31] <Azelphur> so I'm thinking it'd be hilarious to clone my card onto a hidden NFC sticker inside my sleeve or something
[22:31] <ubuntubhoy> really ?
[22:32] <Azelphur> and then "pay with the force"
[22:32] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[22:32] <ubuntubhoy> only thing I have really used the NFC for is Android beam
[22:32] <ubuntubhoy> and even then only to see how it worked
[22:33] <Azelphur> yea I havn't used android nfc beam for much, I did use it to troll my friend who was trying to play games by continually opening annoying webpages on his device xD
[22:33] <ubuntubhoy> haha
[22:34] <Azelphur> but yea, currently I have a wifi poster and a control the TV
[22:34] <Azelphur> next I think I'll do lock/unlock my PC
[22:34] <Azelphur> (and set status away, turn screens off, etc)
[22:35] <ubuntubhoy> been able to do that with bluetooth for ages now
[22:35] <Azelphur> yea, I found that to be a little finicky
[22:35] <directhex> i used nfc! it's how you unlock extra levels in angry birds magic for nokia n9
[22:36] <Azelphur> I used a QR code today too, went in tescos and they had a "scan this QR code to look at the rest of our range"
[22:38] <ubuntubhoy> not seen that either yet
[22:39] <ubuntubhoy> probably been there but I have never noticed