[01:11] <willvdl> gnight
[01:53] <elmo40> well, that edgyDVD.torrent is dead :/
[01:54] <elmo40> guess i will use d4x to grab the .iso
[01:54] <LaserJock> yeah, I bet there aren't enough people to keep the Edubuntu torrents very fast at all
[01:54] <elmo40> i am at 10%
[01:54] <elmo40> been like that for 5hrs :\
[03:02] <wist_> hi guys... i dont know if it's the right thing to do or the right place to ask but....... After installing Edubuntu to my HD it just crashes everytime the Updates notification pops up
[03:02] <wist_> PIII 500 MhZ 456 MB RAM , 40 GB HD
[03:03] <wist_> isntalled from the live cd.. i need to do something here... just dont know what..
[03:03] <LaserJock> yikes, that's not good
[03:03] <LaserJock> I'd actually ask #ubuntu as it's probably a generic problem (not Edubuntu specific) and they have a lot more people
[03:04] <wist_> :) thats a start, thanks .
[03:12] <matsavhalev> hi guys, once i have set up edubuntu for ltsp, is there a way to change/add the feature to boot an install cd? whatever i change still gives me ltsp :-)
[03:13] <LaserJock> on a client?
[03:13] <LaserJock> or on the server?
[10:25] <cbx33> Thanks ogra
[10:25] <cbx33> awesome work
[10:26] <cbx33> got two secs to discuss one point?
[11:17] <ogra> indeed
[11:17] <edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, cbx33 told me to tell you 'I'm off for the night....please mail me...if you get the book chapter looked at...Ican then look at it tomrorow morning on the way to work' 12 hours, 8 minutes and 33 seconds ago (on Tue Feb  6 00:09:26 2007)
[11:17] <ogra> cbx33, ^^
[11:18] <cbx33> yeh I got it
[11:18] <ogra> she was faster :)
[11:18] <cbx33> no no I've already started looking at it
[11:19] <cbx33> I wondered if yo ucould spare me a few minuetes in a sec
[11:19] <ogra> sure
[11:19] <cbx33> just to go over one or two points
[11:19] <cbx33> hang on lemme boot up the laptop
[11:20] <cbx33> oh yeh...right 1) mounting proc in the chroot
[11:21] <cbx33> i don't think I've ever done that....
[11:21] <ogra> a bunch of packages require it ...
[11:21] <cbx33> ahh right ok cool
[11:21] <cbx33> that's fine
[11:22] <cbx33> 2) my blabberings about the server configs
[11:22] <ogra> one vs two NICs ?
[11:22] <cbx33> yeh
[11:22] <cbx33> see i used to use a one NIC + alternative DHCP server setup
[11:24] <ogra> sure, thats fine
[11:24] <cbx33> and the reason why i was saying about connecting to a private subnet
[11:24] <cbx33> is so that people can't bypass the edubuntu server to gain access to the network
[11:24] <ogra> what i complained about was the "edubuntu as a gateway"
[11:24] <cbx33> using like a live cd for example
[11:25] <cbx33> i thought this was more of an advantage
[11:25] <ogra> it's a secuzrity feature that we dont route the client network
[11:25] <cbx33> but....i'm probably wrong ;)
[11:25] <ogra> the two NIC setup is our declared and desired default
[11:25] <cbx33> but in a way the edbuntu server does act like a firewall/gateway
[11:26] <ogra> in that setup you dont have any routing between client network and LAN
[11:26] <cbx33> unless the clients are not booting from the edubuntu server
[11:26] <ogra> if you use a single NIC setup
[11:26] <ogra> you can indeed let the clients be on the internet directly
[11:27] <cbx33> oh i see
[11:27] <cbx33> i think
[11:27] <cbx33> are you saying....
[11:27] <ogra> why shouzld the clients not boot from the edubuntu server in the two NIC setup, there is nothing in the way
[11:27] <cbx33> Internet -> NIC1 -> Edubuntu server -> NiC2 -> Switch -> Clients
[11:27] <ogra> you have a dedicated network and a dedicated dhcpd
[11:28] <ogra> right
[11:28] <ogra> NIC2 is owned by the edubuntu server alone
[11:28] <cbx33> so basically you do have a seperate private subnet
[11:28] <cbx33> on NIC2
[11:28] <ogra> right, thats the default setup since edgy
[11:28] <cbx33> maybe it was just my wording
[11:28] <cbx33> that's what I was saying in that first bit
[11:28] <ogra> if yor setup differs from it you get  a warning from ltsp-client-builder during install
[11:29] <cbx33> that the "other card is usually connected to a private subnet of the network"
[11:29] <cbx33> NIC2 is connected to a switch connecte to just LTSP clients
[11:29] <ogra> right
[11:29] <cbx33> so where is my wording wrong?
[11:29] <ogra> but in no scenario you use edubuntu as a gateway (at least by default)
[11:29] <cbx33> ok
[11:30] <cbx33> if I remove the word gateway is that better?
[11:30] <ogra> "Using Edubuntu as the primary gateway requires the server machine to have two network interface cards. "
[11:30] <cbx33> I'll put using edubuntu in the recommend configuration requires/.....
[11:30] <ogra> try to explain why we use two NICs etc
[11:30] <cbx33> and take out primary gateway
[11:30] <cbx33> I will
[11:30] <cbx33> ok thanks
[11:30] <ogra> and indeed, avoid the term gateway :)
[11:30] <cbx33> hehe
[11:30] <cbx33> sorry
[11:31] <cbx33> i didn't mean gateway like that
[11:31] <cbx33> but yes
[11:31] <ogra> no, its fine
[11:31] <cbx33> I sholdn't have used it
[11:31] <ogra> there might come setups where we need to route the clients
[11:31] <ogra> in the future
[11:31] <cbx33> and the xres question was not in the build chroot
[11:31] <ogra> but for now i'd like to sell it as an additional security feature
[11:31] <cbx33> and the xres question was not in the build chroot
[11:31] <cbx33> it was in the general setup
[11:31] <ogra> ah, good
[11:31] <ogra> else debconf would have been broken
[11:32] <cbx33> hehe
[11:32] <cbx33> sorry
[11:32] <ogra> it's explicitly told to not ask
[11:32] <cbx33> thanks for the chroot reinforcement
[11:32] <cbx33> in the kernels section
[11:32] <ogra> yeah, thats important
[11:32] <cbx33> ;)
[11:32] <ogra> its complicated enough to muddle it up
[11:32] <juliux> cbx33, for alle the network are nice pictures in web https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWiring perhap it help
[11:32] <cbx33> yes
[11:33] <cbx33> now
[11:33] <ogra> juliux, these are not printable in a book ... the quality is rather web ...
[11:33] <cbx33> did I get the localdevices section all wrong
[11:33] <ogra> and i dont have bigger originals of them
[11:33] <cbx33> ogra: I will be putting diagrams
[11:33] <ogra> right
[11:33] <juliux> ogra, i will create new ones in the next days, i need some for a poster for the expos
[11:33] <cbx33> but they are likely to be redrawn by publishers
[11:34] <cbx33> is my local devices section all wrong ogra ?
[11:34] <ogra> no, the localdev section is fine, but missing information :)
[11:34] <cbx33> oh ok
[11:34] <cbx33> I'll read
[11:35] <ogra> how do i switch it on on a normal ubuntu, what has to be done additionally in edubuntu
[11:35] <cbx33> I'l probably leave that out
[11:35] <cbx33> and point to a wiki
[11:36] <cbx33> as this is meant to be generally about edubuntu
[11:36] <ogra> well, the "add the user to the fuse group, the user manager has a special option for it" would be nice, else you wont have local devices at all
[11:37] <cbx33> ahhh yes
[11:37] <cbx33> so you need that for edubuntu too?
[11:37] <ogra> (not adding the users to the fuse group by default is also a security feature you can point out)
[11:37] <ogra> yes, thats all thats needed in edubuntu
[11:38] <ogra> in ubuntu you have to enable it in the lts.conf additionally, which edubuntu has by default
[11:39] <ogra> (just read the wiki ;) )
[11:39] <cbx33> ok
[11:39] <cbx33> I will
[11:39] <cbx33> sorry about the troubleshooting ltsp
[11:39] <cbx33> :p
[11:40] <cbx33> the dhcp-server status
[11:40] <cbx33> heheh
[11:40] <cbx33> i guessed....to be checked later on
[11:40] <cbx33> thanks for the commands
[11:40] <ogra> in the future we'll have little tools based on python-ltsp for that ;)
[11:40] <cbx33> nice
[11:41] <cbx33> for the window managers
[11:42] <cbx33> obviously once they are installed...the dropdown stuff applies right?
[11:42] <cbx33> kubuntu-desktop
[11:42] <cbx33> ?
[11:42] <ogra> it always applies
[11:42] <ogra> you always have a "default" and a "gnome" session
[11:42] <cbx33> ahh yes
[11:42] <ogra> where default points to gnome in that case indeed
[11:43] <ogra> if you install xfce, kubuntu or xubuntu desktop they will appear there ... whatever you installed last will be the default
[11:43] <cbx33> ok
[11:43] <cbx33> does ldm askyou if you want to make the one you just changed to default?
[11:44] <ogra> no
[11:44] <ogra> it's not gdm :)
[11:44] <ogra> (yet :P )
[11:44] <cbx33> hehe
[11:45] <cbx33> ok so ... arey ouhappy for what I have to be the first draft if I make the changes you requested?
[11:45] <ogra> sure
[11:45] <cbx33> is it ok?
[11:45] <ogra> yep
[11:45] <cbx33> how would you rate it?
[11:45] <cbx33> think it'l be good for edubuntu?
[11:46] <ogra> it's good user doumentation, and indeed i think it will be good :)
[11:48] <cbx33> ogra: cool eat well....last thing....is there anything missing from the chapter...and that's it I'm done THANK YOU SO MUCH
[11:48] <cbx33> you are a LEGEND
[12:51] <ogra> cbx33, you didnt add ${python:depends} to thin-client-manager-gnome (pycentral dependency is still missing), the copyright file is still missing the dates, cheap_plugin still has an underscore in its name (python naming policy)
[12:53] <ogra> cbx33, and i still have the wrong glade file ...
[12:53] <ogra> nothing changed ....
[12:54] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/packages/thin-client-manager-0.5.0$ sudo student-control-panel
[12:54] <ogra> Traceback (most recent call last):
[12:54] <ogra>   File "/usr/bin/student-control-panel", line 740, in <module>
[12:54] <ogra>     base = ControlPanel()
[12:54] <ogra>   File "/usr/bin/student-control-panel", line 95, in __init__
[12:54] <ogra>     self.share.connect("clicked", lambda w: self.make_share(treeselection))
[12:54] <ogra> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'connect'
[12:56] <cbx33> WHAT?
[12:56] <cbx33> I changed all that
[12:56] <cbx33> do you have the right email?
[12:56] <cbx33> that's not right
[12:57] <ogra> i have your last email
[12:57] <ogra> the one where i picked the book chapter out as well
[12:57] <cbx33> no
[12:58] <cbx33> i sent you one yesterday
[12:58] <ogra> oh, right
[12:58] <ogra> heh, sorry
[12:58] <ogra> what is thin-client-manager_0.5.0.tar.gz ?
[12:58] <cbx33> you obviously havn't eaten enough
[12:59] <cbx33> thought that was autogenerated by my debuild
[12:59] <ogra> i rarely eat before 4pm :)
[12:59] <ogra> it shouldnt, else something with the package is wrong
[12:59] <cbx33> ok....ignore it then
[12:59] <ogra> i'll check ... dont worry
[12:59] <cbx33> go for the orig...
[12:59] <cbx33> that's always right
[01:00] <cbx33> did I tell you....my school is seriously considered a switch to linux
[01:01] <ogra> no, thats nice :)
[01:02] <cbx33> yeh
[01:03] <cbx33> Yikes......Dell are only shipping Vista now
[01:03] <cbx33> it's only been out a few days
[01:03] <cbx33> would have thought they would offer both options for a while
[01:03] <cbx33> as Vista still has _a lot_ of problems
[01:03] <RichEd> cbx33: tell your school that w2000 -> vista is a migration, and not an upgrade
[01:04] <RichEd> so if they have to migrate, why not migrate to an open future, free of licence fees or licence admin and the whims & financial needs of a US monopoly
[01:04] <ogra> cbx33, using ${python:depends} requires that you run dh_python in your rules file
[01:13] <cliebow> cbx33:yeah saw the same thing at bestbuy and circuit city..bend over and embrace visigoth...errr vis ta
[01:15] <cbx33> ogra: sorry
[01:16] <cbx33> Je suis stupide
[01:17] <ogra> hmm, wait, that doesnt help dh_python is deprecated ...
[01:18] <ogra> should rather be dh_pysupport and a Build-Dep-Indep:
[01:18] <cbx33> ah yes...think i saw that when i was creating...the debianpolicy
[01:18] <cbx33> ah i seee
[01:24] <ogra> bah, blind me ...
[01:24] <ogra> pycentral does it ... if you spell right ...
[01:24] <ogra> ${python:depends} needs to be ${python:Depends} indeed
[01:25] <cbx33> ahhh sorry
[01:26] <cbx33> did you wanna make any changes and send it back to me....or did you want me to make the changes?
[01:26] <ogra> if i dotn discover bigger stufgf i'm fine with making small changes
[01:26] <ogra> i'm not done yet :)
[01:27] <cbx33> hehehaha
[01:27] <cbx33> i know
[01:27] <ogra> hrm
[01:27] <ogra> what about the python2.4-dbus dep ?
[01:27] <ogra> can we switch to 2.5 ?
[01:27] <cbx33> i would think so
[01:27] <cbx33> what do we do about previous versions?
[01:27] <cbx33> is there a python-dbus?
[01:28] <ogra> yep
[01:28] <cbx33> maybe we could use that
[01:29] <ogra> right
[01:30] <ogra> does tcm-backend need to depend on pessulus ?
[01:30] <ogra> heh, no it depends on python-tcm thats sufficient
[01:30] <cbx33> umm....well....the backend should provide pessulus over ssh -X
[01:31] <ogra> the backend runs wwhere ?
[01:32] <ogra> ltsp server or client session ?
[01:32] <cbx33> ltsp server
[01:32] <ogra> well, thats totally pointless to discuss ... :)
[01:32] <ogra> no matter where you install it, python-tcm is a dep ;)
[01:33] <ogra> and python-tcm pulls in all we need (dbus, pessulus)
[01:33] <cbx33> yes
[01:33] <ogra> ok, looks better now
[01:39] <ogra> look, a gui :)
[01:39] <ogra> sadly its crashing over and over
[01:40] <ogra> lots of ps errors
[01:42] <cbx33> oh yeh it will do
[01:42] <cbx33> john doesn;t exist as a user
[01:42] <cbx33> neither does pete
[01:42] <cbx33> I did say that to you
[01:43] <cbx33> cos the userlist function is hacked
[01:43] <ogra> well, there is some other wonky stuff going on as well
[01:45] <ogra> did you test and develop on a feisty system ?
[01:45] <ogra> there is a lot of buggy stuff going on, tcm interacts with apport all the time
[01:46] <cbx33> yes i have tested an run on a feisty system
[01:47] <ogra> the "end process" button still shows in all windows
[01:47] <cbx33> yeh that's on my list
[01:48] <cbx33> I'll look into the apport thing tonight
[01:48] <ogra> did you think about how to create the ssh user and his keys ?
[01:48] <cbx33> no.....seeing as it's not my strong point I thought I'd ask you about it
[01:48] <ogra> might be triggered by a vnc backtrace i see all the time
[01:48] <cbx33> ahhh
[01:49] <cbx33> quite possibly
[01:49] <ogra> tcm must work without vnc running on the client ...
[01:49] <ogra> so please add error handling there
[01:49] <cbx33> it should do
[01:49] <cbx33> i will run over that again
[01:49] <ogra> Traceback (most recent call last):
[01:49] <ogra>   File "/usr/bin/student-control-panel", line 244, in new_vnc
[01:49] <ogra>     self.vnc[(a)]  = VNC(self.wTree, users[a] [2] , port, passw)
[01:49] <ogra>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/studentcontrolpanel/vnc.py", line 610, in __init__
[01:49] <ogra>     self.window = gtk.glade.XML("/home/pete/vnctest/vncview.glade")
[01:50] <cbx33> YIKES
[01:50] <cbx33> that path was fixed in my latest upload
[01:50] <ogra> if it cant establish a connection, just make it quiet ... as a goodie you could present a default pic in the preview
[01:50] <cbx33> no no, it's failing cos it's looking for the vncview.glade file in my home dir
[01:51] <ogra> something like a cracked display or so ...
[01:51] <ogra> ah
[01:51] <cbx33> it was an early hack that I changed yesterday
[01:51] <ogra> right
[01:51] <cbx33> it's now in the /usr/share/student-control-panel
[01:51] <cbx33> lemme check that
[01:51] <ogra> the "connect to desktop" button needs to go from the process window as well
[01:52] <ogra> (trivial glade hack)
[01:52] <ogra> yeah, apport seems not to care for the ps errors, but for the vnc traceback ...
[01:53] <cbx33> yes
[01:53] <cbx33> if you want to modify to test it's at the bottom of the vnc.py file in the usr/lib
[01:53] <cbx33> just after the VNC class edfinition
[01:53] <cbx33> it slipped through
[01:53] <cbx33> sorry
[01:54] <ogra> whats that connect/disconnect button in the toolbar ?
[01:54] <ogra> the most left one
[01:54] <cbx33> that will be for the remote server
[01:54] <ogra> (apart from being a redundant button)
[01:54] <cbx33> will bring up a dialog
[01:54] <ogra> ah, that will need another icon
[01:55] <ogra> having two disconnect buttons with the same icon is a bit conbfusing
[01:55] <cbx33> yes
[01:55] <cbx33> i know
[01:55] <cbx33> icons are my last point
[01:55] <ogra> but thats a feisty+1 feature anyway, just hide it for now
[01:55] <cbx33> oh is it...
[01:55] <ogra> and make it switched on constantly
[01:55] <cbx33> it's done
[01:56] <ogra> did you test it extensively with say 10 ltsp servers ?
[01:56] <cbx33> no....
[01:56] <cbx33> i don;t have that kind of resources
[01:56] <ogra> and where is the dialog you were talking about :)
[01:56] <cbx33> for the remote server?
[01:56] <ogra> lets do it right and keep it for feisty+1
[01:56] <cbx33> not done yet... :p
[01:56] <cbx33> it would just be an ip
[01:57] <ogra> the parts that are done are awesome already, dont get aucght by featuritis
[01:57] <cbx33> ok
[01:57] <ogra> *caught
[01:57] <cbx33> :(
[01:57] <ogra> meh
[01:57] <cbx33> I'll remove it...
[01:57] <ogra> *c a u g h t
[01:57] <ogra> just the guoi item ....
[01:57] <ogra> dont remove the code
[01:57] <cbx33> if you check out the ltcm.py file in /usr/lib you'll see that it's mostly in there
[01:57] <cbx33> yeh i know what you mean
[01:57] <cbx33> each call to the backend has a "remote" alternative
[01:57] <cbx33> if an ip is passed
[01:58] <ogra> yep, saw that
[01:58] <ogra> lets concentrate on the features we actually can test ...
[01:59] <cbx33> ok
[01:59] <ogra> and that are likely to be perfect in the release
[01:59] <cbx33> tested the user groups thingy?
[01:59] <ogra> not yet
[01:59] <ogra> i need to revert your static userlist first ...
[01:59] <ogra> for now i'm fine ...
[01:59] <cbx33> heh
[02:00] <ogra> the package looks ok with my minor changes
[02:00] <ogra> i'll send you the debdiff and upload ...
[02:00] <ogra> oh, one thing ...
[02:00] <cbx33> ok
[02:00] <cbx33> what's that
[02:00] <cbx33> I gotta shoot off for a while
[02:00] <ogra> lets agree that we use the ubuntu versioning scheme with the new version
[02:00] <cbx33> sure
[02:00] <ogra> makes it easier for debian to adopt it
[02:00] <cbx33> if you can explain it to me
[02:00] <cbx33> I'll use it
[02:00] <ogra> 0.5.0 is your upstream version
[02:01] <ogra> 0.5.0-1 would be the first debian package of it (if its non native liek ours)
[02:01] <cbx33> gtg....will read when i get back
[02:01] <ogra> 0.5.0-0ubuntu1 would be a first ubuntu package of an app
[02:02] <ogra> because 0.5.0-1 is bigger than 0.5.0-0ubuntu1 a package from the same source built in debian would override ours
[02:02] <ogra> makes syncing easy etc
[02:03] <ogra> oh, and one last thing, please be more wordy in your changelog entries ...
[02:03] <cbx33> thanks ogra
[02:03] <cbx33> ok
[02:03] <ogra> you did a lot of changes ....
[02:04] <ogra> one line doesnt suffice for that :)
[02:04] <cbx33> ok
[02:04] <ogra> i'll add up stuff before the upload ...
[02:48] <cbx33> ogra: I'l get that fixed tonight when i get home from work
[03:26] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:26] <cbx33> hey sbalneav
[03:27] <jsgotangco> yo!
[03:28] <cbx33> yo yo jsgotangco
[03:29] <juliux> hi sbalneav jsgotangco
[03:29] <sbalneav> Hello hell
[03:29] <sbalneav> hello
[03:29] <jsgotangco> hey you guys how are you doing
[03:29] <sbalneav> whoops, fingers aren't working yet.
[03:29] <sbalneav> Need more coffee.
[03:45] <willvdl> coffee, that's what's wrong with me today. I ran out of coffee
[03:48] <willvdl> hey jsgotangco, quick question?
[03:49] <jsgotangco> go ahead
[03:49] <willvdl> on wiki there are 2 spots where handbook/cookbook were managed
[03:49] <willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
[03:49] <willvdl> which redirects to help.u.com
[03:49] <willvdl> and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook
[03:49] <willvdl> presumably one must be deprecated?
[03:50] <jsgotangco> willvdl: honestly, my brain is fried at the moment for all these issues i have at home and myself so I can't even remember that
[03:50] <willvdl> okie, I'll read both, figure out which is most recent and delete the other
[03:51] <jsgotangco> im sorry
[03:51] <willvdl> no worries
[03:52] <jsgotangco> its just that so many things are on my mind at the moment
[03:52] <jsgotangco> and IRC is the best place to escape
[03:52] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:52] <willvdl> that's what oyu thought...mwuhahaha
[03:52] <willvdl> you need to join #escapism, not #edubuntu
[03:52] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:53] <willvdl> or change your nick
[03:53] <jsgotangco> or #marriage-counselling or something
[03:53] <willvdl> perhaps #my-dog-died-recently
[03:53] <willvdl> darn, it's too hot here for me to think straight either
[04:05] <march> Hi@all
[04:14] <accuser> anyone deployed edubuntu into a primary school?
[04:48] <cliebow_> 3-5..
[05:08] <cbx33> ping ogra_ how do you specify usb printers in lts.conf
[05:08] <cbx33> or sbalneav for that matter :p
[05:08] <sbalneav> Ummm,
[05:08] <sbalneav> should be... (gimme a sec)
[05:09] <cbx33> cos paraller is /dev/lp0
[05:09] <cbx33> right
[05:09] <sbalneav> I think it's /dev/usb/lp0
[05:09] <cbx33> anywhere to make sure
[05:09] <cbx33> it's for the edubuntu chapter in the officilal ubuntu boook
[05:10] <sbalneav> I can check at home tonight.  It depends on where Ubuntu's udev puts usb printers.  I don't have one here, but at home I do.
[05:10] <cbx33> ok cool
[05:10] <cbx33> thanks sbalneav
[05:10] <cbx33> sbalneav, ooh can I ask yo uanother question
[05:11] <sbalneav> Sure.
[05:11] <cbx33> in the lts.conf file
[05:11] <cbx33> you do something like
[05:11] <cbx33> [00:4C:69:73:61:00]
[05:11] <cbx33>     PRINTER_0_DEVICE = /dev/lp0
[05:11] <ogra_> its /dev/usblp0
[05:11] <cbx33> ogra_, you rock thanks dude
[05:11] <sbalneav> ah
[05:11] <ogra_> no additional slashes
[05:11] <sbalneav> there we go.
[05:11] <cbx33> the 9100
[05:11] <cbx33> etc...
[05:12] <cbx33> that's permachine right?
[05:12] <ogra_> no
[05:12] <sbalneav> Right.
[05:12] <cbx33> so you can have 9100 on one ip
[05:12] <cbx33> and 9100 on another ip?
[05:12] <ogra_> right
[05:12] <sbalneav> yes
[05:12] <cbx33> thanks guys
[05:12] <ogra_> but it counts up with every additional PRINTER_n_DEVICE
[05:12] <cbx33> yes
[05:12] <cbx33> on each machine
[05:13] <cbx33> now sound edgy ogra_
[05:13] <ogra_> right
[05:13] <cbx33> SOUND=True for dapper
[05:13] <cbx33> is that needed for edgy too?
[05:14] <ogra_> sure
[05:14] <ogra_> even though edgy will also understand Y
[05:14] <cbx33> right
[05:14] <cbx33> thanks I'll leave it as that then
[05:14] <cbx33> but feisty it's default right?
[05:14] <ogra_> but just keep it at True :)
[05:14] <cbx33> of course
[05:15] <cbx33> less confusing
[05:15] <ogra_> not sure yet if i want to ship a default lts.conmf
[05:15] <cbx33> ahh...
[05:15] <cbx33> ok I'll keep it as you have to modify lts for now
[05:15] <ogra_> its default in edubuntu
[05:15] <ogra_> but not in ltsp
[05:15] <cbx33> ahh
[05:15] <cbx33> I only really care about edubuntu at the moment
[05:15] <ogra_> ah, right
[05:15] <ogra_> we have it in hthe default file since edgy
[05:16] <cbx33> ahh
[05:16] <ogra_> look yourself ;)
[05:16] <cbx33> thought so
[05:16] <cbx33> sorry ogra_
[05:16] <cbx33> :# - embarrased
[05:19] <cbx33> ogra_, where i use the lp_server name in the chapter....should I use lp_server/jetpipe ?
[05:19] <cbx33> cos we don't use lp_server now do we
[05:19] <ogra_> no, we dont
[05:19] <cbx33> I explained the difference above
[05:19] <ogra_> dont make it to public
[05:19] <ogra_> (the old name i mean)
[05:19] <cbx33> oh ok
[05:20] <cbx33> I'll just use jetpipe
[05:20] <ogra_> sbalneav, btw ...
[05:20] <cbx33> do we yet have a print charging system for edubuntu LTSP?
[05:20] <cbx33> that is something our school would be extremely interested in
[05:20] <cbx33> maybe I'll have to write one
[05:20] <ogra_> cups ?
[05:20] <ogra_> it should write proper logs
[05:20] <cbx33> cool
[05:20] <cbx33> but does it limit printing based on how much they have used?
[05:21] <ogra_> on the server you still run cups ... jetpipe is only piping jetdirect stuff to /dev/lpsomething
[05:21] <cbx33> true...sorry I'm pretty fried it's been a long day
[05:22] <cbx33> ogra_, is this valid
[05:22] <cbx33> [00:4C:69:73:61:00]
[05:22] <cbx33>     PRINTER_0_DEVICE = /dev/lp0
[05:22] <cbx33>     PRINTER_1_DEVICE = /dev/usblp0
[05:22] <ogra_> yes
[05:22] <cbx33> hehehe
[05:23] <cbx33> how do you suggest people get the mac address from the client?
[05:27] <cliebow_> cbx33:you mean without watching syslog?
[05:31] <cbx33> cliebow, heheh yeh
[05:35] <cbx33> arrggghh
[05:35] <cbx33> attack of the caravena
[05:36] <willvdl> you were attacked by a Spanish caravan?
[05:38] <cbx33> heh
[05:43] <cbx33> IP=<IP_ADDRESS> ; ping -c1 $IP | grep "NULL"; arp -a | grep $IP
[05:43] <cbx33> that sufficient for getting the mac of a running ip ogra_ ?
[05:43] <billy_idle> c you
[05:44] <ogra_> i think so ...
[05:44] <cbx33> seems to work ok here
[05:46] <ogra_> cbx33, tcm is in ...
[05:46] <cbx33> w00t
[05:46] <cbx33> universe or main?
[05:46] <cbx33> did you make all the changes?
[05:46] <ogra_> i did make a bunch of them
[05:47] <cbx33> thank you...I really do owe you
[05:47] <ogra_> but now you can work directly on the package
[05:47] <cbx33> fantastic
[05:47] <cbx33> that makes it a lot easier
[05:47] <cbx33> did you even update my changelog entry?
[05:47] <ogra_> yes
[05:48] <ogra_> meh, we were missing an empty SCP package ... for the transition
[05:48] <cbx33> ?
[05:48] <cbx33> oh for upgraders?
[05:48] <ogra_> yep
[05:48] <ogra_> ok, now SCP is gone ...
[05:49] <cbx33> did you fix the vnc vncview file path error?
[05:49] <ogra_> Accepted:
[05:49] <ogra_> thin-client-manager 0.5.0-0ubuntu1 was ACCEPTED.
[05:49] <ogra_>         Component: main Section: misc
[05:49] <ogra_> nope ...
[05:49] <cbx33> ok
[05:49] <ogra_> i count that as general bugfixing
[05:49] <cbx33> ah right ok
[05:49] <cbx33> so assume you fixed just pacakging issues
[05:49] <cbx33> I have a printout of our convo
[05:49] <ogra_> the *feature* is there, we just need to fix the bugs in it :)
[05:49] <cbx33> so i will fix any other issues you mentioned
[05:49] <cbx33> :)
[05:50] <cbx33> thank you again ogra_
[05:50] <cbx33> I know it took valuable time to look at that today
[05:50] <cbx33> and the book
[05:50] <cbx33> you rock
[05:50] <ogra_> and really, dont try to do everything, concentrate on the most important stuff, what we dont get this release, we'll get next one ...
[05:51] <cbx33> ok
[05:51] <cbx33> I don't want to dissapoint
[05:51] <cbx33> I'll get the most important stuff done
[05:51] <ogra_> if you have time left to do extra stuff, fine ...
[05:51] <cbx33> ok
[05:51] <ogra_> but set priorities :)
[05:51] <ogra_> for yourself i mean ...
[05:51] <cbx33> meh <IP_ADDRESS> is down
[05:51] <cbx33> archive.ubuntu.com
[05:52] <cbx33> you deserve it
[05:52] <cbx33> making the changes to book now
[05:52] <cbx33> tcm is for later on
[05:52] <cbx33> so ogra_ we're good for FF now?
[05:52] <ogra_> <IP_ADDRESS> is up :)
[05:52] <cbx33> hehe
[05:52] <ogra_> archive.ubuntu.com
[05:52] <ogra_> not at all
[05:52] <cbx33> I need to fix up and working for Thursday
[05:52] <ogra_> edubuntu auth server/client are looking bad ...
[05:52] <cbx33> ok
[05:53] <cbx33> no no i meant TCM
[05:53] <ogra_> fat clients wont happen without it
[05:53] <cbx33> anything I can do? - says the man who's already pushing it :)
[05:53] <ogra_> so all i have to show this time might be sound, tcm and 2cds
[05:53] <cbx33> get me a job there and I can finish everything up
[05:53] <cbx33> haha
[05:53] <ogra_> i'm trying to get ltsp-manager done though
[05:53] <cbx33> ogra_, do we have an edubuntu specific roadmap?
[05:54] <ogra_> willvdl wanted to make one once ...
[05:54] <cbx33> i think it's good idea
[05:54] <ogra_> but i think that didnt happen yet
[05:54] <ogra_> soemthing for the educon :)
[05:54] <cbx33> but not now obviously
[05:54] <willvdl> well, the technical roadmap is handled well by the sprints, dev summits and launchpad
[05:55] <cbx33> and we need to split up tasks....and make that more visible
[05:55] <cbx33> willvdl, is it all documented in one place?
[05:55] <cbx33> willvdl, got time for a little chat?
[05:55] <willvdl> cbx33, if you know how to use LP then yes :)
[05:55] <ogra_> willvdl, well, then we need a roadmap generator that makes us a roadmap from the html of the spec page ;)
[05:56] <ogra_> something for UDS ;)
[05:56] <cbx33> willvdl, what d'ya need
[05:56] <willvdl> ogra_, is there a real need for that? I mean will be automatic but it will still need ot be built
[05:56] <ogra_> well, you build it once
[05:56] <ogra_> and paste it to a website
[05:56] <cbx33> oh sorry willvdl
[05:56] <ogra_> "desired features"
[05:56] <cbx33> i didn't get what ya meant
[05:56] <cbx33> is it possible to track those changes
[05:57] <cbx33> and also....what can we break down for the community
[05:57] <willvdl> hang on, two threads :)
[05:57] <ogra_> "for status overviews please see the specific spec pages on LP"
[05:57] <cbx33> thanks ogra_
[05:57] <willvdl> ogra_, there is probably a good case for a nice formatted easy to read overview that is simply pulled from LP
[05:57] <cbx33> i think if we can pull all relevant info together on a wiki page
[05:58] <ogra_> willvdl, thats what i mean ... if i remember yxou and RichEd in the beginning, such a page would have been valuable
[05:58] <willvdl> The hard part is pulling in the "informational" specs on docs/marketing etc.
[05:58] <cbx33> of course
[05:58] <willvdl> yeah, RichEd mentioned something like that
[05:58] <ogra_> anyway, break ... bbl
[05:58] <cbx33> but once it's done initially it means it _should_ just need updating
[05:58] <cbx33> see ya ogra_
[05:59] <willvdl> it will work for the technical specs
[06:00] <willvdl> cbx33, have a look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Wiki/SiteMap
[06:00] <willvdl> it is a WIP for the wiki at least to use the wiki more than the www
[06:00] <willvdl> and point to all the spin-off projects
[06:00] <willvdl> like doc-team, marjeting-team, esa
[06:01] <cbx33> cool
[06:01] <willvdl> it's jsut a start as it's quite hard to do :)
[06:01] <cbx33> do we generally have people in charge of speficic areas?
[06:01] <willvdl> but our community page etc needed updating
[06:01] <cbx33> it would be nice after the meeting on a wednesday, to have each...section leader, update what's needed to be updated etc
[06:01] <cbx33> so people know what's going on and can help out
[06:02] <willvdl> that's tricky too
[06:02] <willvdl> considering that docs are handled by the doc-team
[06:02] <willvdl> etc.
[06:02] <willvdl> ah, wait I get you
[06:02] <willvdl> hmmm. nice idea
[06:03] <cbx33> do you see what i mean
[06:03] <willvdl> yes
[06:03] <cbx33> and then there is a one stop portal
[06:03] <cbx33> for what's needed to be done
[06:03] <cbx33> what has been done
[06:03] <willvdl> have a look at that sitemap and tell me if the structure makes sense to you
[06:03] <cbx33> yes it does
[06:04] <cbx33> perhaps
[06:04] <willvdl> I'm not convinced it will work properly
[06:04] <cbx33> we could split it down into the sections of the meeting
[06:04] <willvdl> It is geared around "how to contribute" and then ships you off somewhere else
[06:04] <cbx33> i revolve around that myself
[06:04] <cbx33> if we had a page with
[06:04] <cbx33> Tech/Artwork/Docs/Community etc
[06:04] <cbx33> as a small nav at the top
[06:04] <willvdl> as opposed to "how to contribute" and "this is what we are doing"
[06:05] <willvdl> like the original community page
[06:05] <cbx33> people could click on that and see the curent status of what we're doing
[06:05] <cbx33> hmmm
[06:05] <cbx33> i see your point
[06:05] <willvdl> I'm going to work on it again tonight.
[06:06] <willvdl> I need to e.g. move doc stuff to doc-team and then link to there from our roadmap
[06:06] <cbx33> hmm yes
[06:07] <willvdl> I also need a quick break. very hot
[06:07] <cbx33> hehe
[06:07] <cbx33> it's cold here
[06:07] <cbx33> like only a few degrees
[06:09] <willvdl> 30 at least here and it's 19:00
[06:16] <highvoltage> willvdl: according to the gnome applet, its' 24C atm :)
[06:16] <highvoltage> (but it feels closer to 30C)
[06:18] <cbx33> ltsp-build-client --extra-mirror=http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty universe
[06:19] <cbx33> is that the correct syntax for building a chroot with univer added?
[06:21] <Laser_away> willvdl: pingy pingy
[06:21] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[06:21] <LaserJock> hi Pete
[06:22] <LaserJock> is oli around?
[06:23] <willvdl> highvoltage, your gnome applet is not in SMW :)
[06:23] <LaserJock> cbx33: I see lots of TCM activity in the backlog
[06:23] <willvdl> LaserJock, pongy pongy
[06:23] <cbx33> yup it's in
[06:23] <LaserJock> willvdl: did you get an answer about Edubuntu Cookbook vs Edubuntu Handbook in the wiki?
[06:23] <cbx33> oli is around he's just on a break right now
[06:24] <willvdl> ah, no
[06:24] <cbx33> LaserJock, ^^ is that the right syntax for the build client do you know?
[06:24] <LaserJock> willvdl: Edubuntu Cookbook was started first, and then the Edubuntu Handbook was started seperately later
[06:25] <LaserJock> I kept the old material around because there was a decent amount of material
[06:25] <willvdl> yip, realise that but I'm not sure about the "relevance" of the stuff that is in help.u.c
[06:25] <cbx33> pardon me but...does KEduca actually do anything when you select a test from the servers?
[06:25] <LaserJock> cbx33: I don't know about syntax
[06:25] <LaserJock> still morning for me
[06:26] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:26] <LaserJock> willvdl: well, if the Handbook gets done I almost think we should wipe both from the wiki
[06:26] <willvdl> LaserJock, we all spoke at some length not so long ago about doing stuff on wiki vs docbook
[06:26] <willvdl> and I still don't know what is the best course of action...
[06:27] <LaserJock> sure
[06:27] <LaserJock> but I think starting from a clean slate at least would be good
[06:27] <cbx33> ++
[06:27] <willvdl> is there stuff on the wiki that is not in the docbook?
[06:27] <cbx33> possibly
[06:27] <LaserJock> I don't know
[06:27] <cbx33> why not export and save all pages somewhere
[06:27] <LaserJock> that's the problem
[06:27] <cbx33> :p
[06:27] <willvdl> OK, I'll check tonight and make a report on it
[06:28] <cbx33> wow you're brave willvdl
[06:28] <LaserJock> outdated and incomplete help is about as bad as no help at all
[06:28] <willvdl> I just don't have the time to actually contribute to the docbook at the moment.
[06:28] <willvdl> but I can make a few wiki pages pointing folks to how to contribute :)
[06:28] <LaserJock> mhm
[06:29] <willvdl> I just with that Help Wiki Wuality Assurance spec would get taken seriously
[06:30] <LaserJock> well, it is taken seriously
[06:30] <LaserJock> just not enough man power to get anywhere fast, IMO
[06:30] <willvdl> meaning I can see some real problems coming in when we have dapper, edgy and feisty swirling about
[06:30] <willvdl> and one handbook for instance
[06:31] <cbx33> yes
[06:31] <highvoltage> willvdl: heh
[06:31] <cbx33> willvdl, I have already hit that
[06:31] <cbx33> with the book chapter
[06:31] <willvdl> how?
[06:31] <willvdl> meaning you have already experienced that?
[06:31] <cbx33> writing some different versions of methods to handle diffrent verions of edubuntu
[06:32] <cbx33> right well....i think willvdl that this hits upon what we were talking about earlier
[06:32] <cbx33> hi highvoltage
[06:32] <LaserJock> we should have a wiki page that gives a table of LTSP features and what versions of Edubuntu have them
[06:32] <willvdl> docbook has some "context" tag thingy that would work
[06:32] <cbx33> LaserJock, mostly, how to enable/enabled by default too
[06:32] <willvdl> then when you build it each release, you jsut specify what "contexts" to build in
[06:33] <LaserJock> that sounds somewhat overly complicated
[06:33] <LaserJock> why not branch for each version of Edubuntu
[06:33] <willvdl> it's in the Qual Assur spec
[06:34] <LaserJock> for docbook?
[06:34] <willvdl> yip.
[06:35] <LaserJock> HelpWikiQualityAssurance does say anything about docbook
[06:35] <LaserJock> *doesn't
[06:35] <LaserJock> just Moin
[06:35] <willvdl> hmmm, where did I read it then...
[06:36] <LaserJock> maybe in one of Matthew East's other brain bender specs ;-)
[06:37] <willvdl> Sean Wheller is quite a fan of the idea as well
[06:37] <LaserJock> I bet
[06:38] <LaserJock> not that I'm particularly against it
[06:38] <LaserJock> I just think we've got a lot of other things that need fixing
[06:38] <willvdl> but I guess you're right, branches would suffice
[06:38] <willvdl> it depends on how the Handbook is going to be distributed
[06:39] <cbx33> bbl
[06:40] <LaserJock> right now we can't even make pdfs right so I'm a little less concerned about branching vs context building
[06:41] <willvdl> pdfs are a lesser concern IMO
[06:41] <LaserJock> well, it depends
[06:41] <LaserJock> branching works quite well
[06:42] <LaserJock> though it is would probably be a little bit more managment
[06:42] <willvdl> only problem with branching is that there is then less tendency to update older docs
[06:42] <LaserJock> having a PDF that people can print that looks profession is important for me
[06:42] <willvdl> and onyl work on current ones
[06:43] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure about that
[06:43] <willvdl> true. seperate issues though butI'm with you on the manpower thing
[06:43] <LaserJock> branching allows you to fix things in older docs without messing with the current ones
[06:43] <LaserJock> I could see the context thing as getting pretty complicated
[06:43] <willvdl> yeah but you'll be less likely to do so since it's branched
[06:43] <LaserJock> which is a good thing
[06:44] <willvdl> agreed. would need full-time management
[06:44] <LaserJock> you don't want "stable" documentation to be constantly changing
[06:44] <willvdl> yeah. point
[06:45] <LaserJock> there are pros and cons
[06:45] <willvdl> hmmm.
[06:45] <LaserJock> if the context thing worked well and there weren't a lot of differences it'd probably be nice
[06:45] <willvdl> I need to have a solid look at the handbook tonight
[06:45] <LaserJock> but if you are rewriting large chuncks each release ...
[06:45] <willvdl> I don't even know if it currently builds
[06:46] <LaserJock> I think nixternal's keeping track of it ok, he built an edubuntu-docs package
[06:46] <willvdl> awesome
[06:46] <willvdl> must remember to pat him on the back
[06:48] <willvdl> LaserJock, the other thing that is at the back of my mind is what the scope/aim of the handbook is suposed to be
[06:48] <willvdl> I can't help thinking that most relevant info should be in an install-guide and in upstream help
[06:50] <LaserJock> yes, well that's the nature of a Handbook
[06:50] <LaserJock> I think I'd rather see something more along the lines of TBH that integrates into the Ubuntu documentation
[06:50] <willvdl> exactly. it aims to reinvent certian wheels but at the same time I can see the definite need for it
[06:50] <willvdl> or that
[06:51] <LaserJock> on the other hand, it *is* useful as a PDF or HTML guide
[06:51] <LaserJock> where people can get all the info from one source
[06:51] <LaserJock> print it out
[06:51] <LaserJock> whatever
[06:51] <willvdl> especially since it is likely to be most useful as an install-guide and first-time-configuration-guide
[06:52] <willvdl> but if it's TBH then you can build it to look how you want
[06:52] <LaserJock> well, kinda
[06:53] <LaserJock> I don't think the doc team will be creating PDF or HTML versions of the docs anymore
[06:53] <LaserJock> we are basically sacraficing online versions to get TBH on the user's computer
[06:54] <LaserJock> in the end the goal is to reintroduce the contents of the help into the help wiki
[06:54] <LaserJock> so help.u.c will be all wiki
[06:55] <willvdl> yeah, I know.
[06:55] <willvdl> I'm not sure I like it though
[06:55] <willvdl> it means that the info is in yelp, fine, but also on the wiki
[06:55] <willvdl> which means people will want to edit it
[06:56] <willvdl> the reverse process doesn't work
[06:56] <LaserJock> well
[06:57] <LaserJock> at first the pages from yelp will be immutable I imagine
[06:57] <LaserJock> and then once Moin->docbook is finished then docs will be written/maintained in the wiki
[06:57] <LaserJock> and then shipped as docbook
[06:58] <willvdl> it just seems ... odd. are there not other collaborative tools (like gobby) for editing rather
[07:01] <willvdl> hmm feeding time. bbl
[07:29] <cbx33> ogra I still can't get my client to build
[07:29] <cbx33> is my line ^^^ ok?
[07:58] <willvdl> eek. too many handbooks :)
[08:07] <cbx33> hehehahah
[08:07] <cbx33> sorry willvdl
[08:07] <cbx33> :p
[08:09] <LaserJock> willvdl: at some point you just have to take the best one and archive the rest ;-)
[08:12] <nixternal> who said my name? :)
[08:12] <LaserJock> me
[08:13] <LaserJock> willvdl was wondering how edubuntu docs were doing
[08:13] <LaserJock> nixternal: did you just put the handbook into your new edubuntu-docs package?
[08:13] <nixternal> no
[08:14] <nixternal> handbook, about edubuntu, release notes, and the school advocacy guide
[08:14] <LaserJock> no Ubuntu material though
[08:14] <nixternal> I may have forgot to add that in the changelog
[08:14] <LaserJock> ?
[08:14] <nixternal> no Ubuntu material
[08:14] <nixternal> Ubuntu-docs are installed by default it seems with Edubuntu
[08:14] <LaserJock> I think we need to replace that
[08:15] <nixternal> well, I think the Ubuntu-docs should stay seeing as it will be GNOME specific, especially with the topic based help
[08:15] <LaserJock> yes, but it blows away all our docs in doing so
[08:15] <nixternal> if we remove Ubuntu-docs then we can just add the topic based stuff to the Edubuntu package
[08:15] <LaserJock> exactly
[08:16] <LaserJock> for now, I think it might be easier to tweak Ubuntu's yelp frontpage to add in the Edubuntu material
[08:16] <nixternal> already done
[08:16] <LaserJock> and include the TBH stuff in edubuntu-docs (replace ubuntu-docs)
[08:16] <nixternal> at least the Edubuntu shows up on the Yelp frontpage
[08:16] <LaserJock> does the Ubuntu material?
[08:16] <nixternal> yes
[08:16] <nixternal> both do
[08:17] <nixternal> it is rather sloppy, but nothing much that a little bit of hacking can't fix
[08:17] <LaserJock> hmm, have you got your package somewhere, I'd like to test that out
[08:17] <nixternal> ya, one sec
[08:17] <LaserJock> sloppy works for me as long as it works even a little bit ;-)
[08:17] <cbx33> are we getting the latest version of scribus in ubuntu?
[08:17] <cbx33> 1.3|
[08:17] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/docs/edubuntu/feisty-package/
[08:17] <cbx33> we're lagging behind with 1.2.5
[08:18] <LaserJock> isn't that scribus-ng
[08:18] <nixternal> heh, I downloaded it from the Scribus page
[08:18] <LaserJock> ?
[08:18] <nixternal> yes
[08:18] <crimsun> LaserJock: Pete can't read, that's all.
[08:18] <nixternal> they have the Police Academy here at the university today
[08:19] <nixternal> so there are a bunch of wannabe cops roaming around
[08:19] <crimsun> cbx33: you're an MOTU; you _know_ how to use apt-cache search
[08:19] <cbx33> true
[08:20] <nixternal> haha
[08:20] <nixternal> sorry, didn't mean to laugh at you :)
[08:20] <nixternal> I have been in school for 2 hours now, and we have gotten 3 inches of snow in the mean time
[08:20] <nixternal> my drive home is going to be horrible
[08:22] <LaserJock> nixternal: blame it on all that global warming :-)
[08:23] <nixternal> shush, no such thing!
[08:23] <cbx33> nixternal, cool
[08:23] <LaserJock> nixternal: the other thing is if we want to ship the docs we need to get it into Main
[08:23] <cbx33> I only asked cos the default installed scribus in edubuntu is clearly 1.2.5
[08:23] <cbx33> That's all
[08:24] <nixternal> LaserJock: I will leave that up to you, I am not worthy
[08:24] <cbx33> i thought there was a newer one.  Sorry for my lack of reading abliities :(
[08:24] <LaserJock> I think there was something about replacing scribus with scribus-ng because 1.2 isn't going to be getting bug fixes, etc.
[08:24] <LaserJock> nixternal: *I* am not worthy
[08:24] <LaserJock> this stinkin' Feature Freeze deadline is killing me
[08:25] <nixternal> hah, you and crimsun are the closes to be legal entities of GODDOM
[08:25] <nixternal> was that a Bushism?
[08:25] <LaserJock> bah
[08:25] <crimsun> I ain't no stinking thing
[08:25] <cbx33> LaserJock, anything I can do?
[08:25] <crimsun> LaserJock's the MOTU rep to #launchpad _and_ a member of the MOTU trinity
[08:25] <nixternal> I can blame my poor typing on the lag I am experiencing on the school wifi > home server
[08:25] <cbx33> the MOTU trinity?
[08:26] <LaserJock> but crimsun's the one that does all the work so ...
[08:26] <crimsun> grunts do all the work while deities bask
[08:26] <LaserJock> cbx33: perhaps, I'm just trying to get MIRs in
[08:26] <nixternal> hah
[08:26] <nixternal> crimsun: well get to basking
[08:26] <crimsun> sorry, too busy being a grunt
[08:26] <LaserJock> lol
[08:28] <nixternal> heh
[08:28] <nixternal> crimsun: I think I found a new audio bug though
[08:28] <LaserJock> nixternal: ewww, the yelp frontpage is a tad nasty
[08:29] <nixternal> LaserJock: yes, I said that up ^^
[08:29] <cbx33> i read that as a tad tasty then
[08:29] <nixternal> crimsun: remember I told you about the mute button lighting up properly (which I never knew I had)?
[08:29] <LaserJock> nixternal: do you think you can work with mdke to get that worked out?
[08:29] <nixternal> well if I mute it, shutdown/reboot, when I come back in the system is still muted, but the led isn't lit
[08:30] <nixternal> LaserJock: if I have to :)
[08:30] <nixternal> sure I can
[08:30] <nixternal> I need to learn more than the KDE side truthfully
[08:30] <nixternal> I mean GNOME needs so much help, I figured I would learn it a little bit more :)
[08:31] <nixternal> OH, btw, The main KDE Educational leader, is an avid lover of Edubuntu I found out recently while talking to her
[08:31] <LaserJock> yep
[08:31] <LaserJock> Marie I think is her name?
[08:31] <nixternal> Yes
[08:31] <nixternal> I am helping her with the KDE 4 Educational documentation and hopefully working in strigi and some new help center
[08:32] <LaserJock> nixternal: I think you might want to change the versioning of your edubuntu-docs package
[08:32] <crimsun> nixternal: hardware boog.
[08:32] <crimsun> nixternal: we're obviously saving state correctly; bios isn't.
[08:33] <cbx33> stoopid bios
[08:33] <nixternal> heh
[08:33] <nixternal> I bet it works correctly in Windows :)
[08:36] <willvdl> LaserJock, nixternal: just catching up on a page or two back. Is the idea to have Edubuntu contain edubuntu-docs.deb but not ubuntu-docs.deb?
[08:36] <nixternal> LaserJock: I will be back at about 23:00 UTC. I gotta get my butt to class
[08:36] <nixternal> willvdl: yes
[08:36] <LaserJock> willvdl: we have to figure that out
[08:36] <willvdl> and then build edubuntu-docs.deb to include the TBH stuff
[08:37] <nixternal> merge some of the stuff from Ubuntu docs into Edubuntu docs
[08:37] <willvdl> makefile issue, nothing more?
[08:37] <LaserJock> well ...
[08:37] <nixternal> we need major, and I mean major help with content for the Handbook as well
[08:37] <LaserJock> mostly
[08:37] <willvdl> excluding content
[08:37] <LaserJock> we need to rework the yelp frontpage to work for Edubuntu
[08:38] <nixternal> alrighty, Im heading off to class, I will be back at home 17:00 Chicago Standard Time :)  23:00 for you UTC'ers
[08:38] <willvdl> lemme rephrase, to drop ubuntu-docs for Edubuntu would jsut require a tweaked makefile right?
[08:38] <nixternal> of course my server will be logging you talking bad about me
[08:38] <willvdl> we don't use your name when we do that
[08:38] <willvdl> we have hand-signals
[08:38] <nixternal> haha
[08:38] <LaserJock> willvdl: we also need to tweak the yelp frontpage to make it Edubuntu specific, but yeah
[08:39] <willvdl> OK. I'm working now on merging the 3 cookbooks
[08:39] <willvdl> and can hopefully make a patch before edubuntu-meeting
[08:41] <cbx33> nice
[08:41] <LaserJock> nixternal: make sure to use versioning that's consistent with the current edubuntu-docs package. In fact, you should have the changelog, etc. from that
[08:53] <nixternal> alrighty, back in class
[08:53] <nixternal> LaserJock: I will redo it when I get home
[08:54] <nixternal> this class is warm
[09:05] <willvdl> crap my docbook skills are seriously rusty. can't even remeber how to include from other docs
[09:22] <bddebian> Heya
[09:31] <swimmerino88> hello...can somebody help me?I have a little problem
[09:31] <LaserJock> please give us your problem and we'll see if we can help
[09:34] <cberl1> Hi folks.  Got a bit of a problem that I need help figuring out:  I ran into Kernel Panic today, and I'm not sure how to get data about what happened.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?  I'm on Edgy, and all up to date.
[09:35] <stgraber> you should be able to get the log of the kernel panic in your /var/log/syslog file
[09:35] <swimmerino88> ok in mi computer I have ubuntu...now i have installed all the desktop ubuntu-kubuntu-edubuntu-xubuntu...I have two problem...the first one is that ubuntu doesn't work!after the login appear a window which tell me that there is a bug.I saved the file and the other problem is that edubuntu isn't in my sessions in the login!
[09:36] <cberl1> stgraber: Okay, so I should check the syslog.x file that matches the time of the panic?
[09:36] <stgraber> yes
[09:36] <cberl1> Okay, then what do I do with it?  :)
[09:37] <stgraber> check what's written just above it
[09:37] <stgraber> if you are lucky you'll easily see what module is involved
[09:37] <cberl1> Okay, I'll start there.  Thanks!
[09:38] <stgraber> Once the module name found, you'll be able to find if the bug is already reported on https://launchpad.net
[09:38] <stgraber> if not, you'll be able to file a new bug
[09:40] <cberl1> stgraber: What if I don't find anything in the syslog about the kernel panic?
[09:41] <stgraber> can you paste this part of the syslog to a pastebin ?
[09:41] <swimmerino88> LaserJock: this is the text that I saved http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/4461/
[09:41] <cberl1> Sure -- I'll send you the appropriate timeframe and post the link here.
[09:43] <swimmerino88> please...nobody have my problem???
[09:44] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: Edubuntu essentiall replace Ubuntu
[09:44] <LaserJock> they both use Gnome
[09:44] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:so i have to install or ubuntu or edubuntu?
[09:45] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: well, it's all there
[09:45] <LaserJock> it's just a matter of artwork mostly
[09:45] <LaserJock> what is it that you want to change?
[09:46] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:No I don't wanto to change..I'd like only tu use all the ubuntus
[09:46] <LaserJock> you are
[09:46] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:what?
[09:47] <LaserJock> it's just that Ubuntu and Edubuntu are a little mixed together, they aren't completely independent in a sense
[09:47] <cberl1> stgraber: Okay, I've posted a filtered version to http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/4464/ (without the client kernel messages mixed in)
[09:47] <cberl1> stgraber: if you want the full thing, with what's going on with the clients as well, I'll repost
[09:48] <cberl1> stgraber: Basically, I got a call at about 9:15am telling me the server was down.  I arrived at 10am and tried to diagnose -- server was non-responsive so I rebooted it.
[09:50] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:ok but I have the same problem too.Now I will remove edubuntu-desktop...so I will have ubuntu-kubuntu an xubuntu,like before...but when I enter in ubuntu,after the login appear a window!an I can't work!it says that I have to save this file...I saved it but i can't work,becauste this windows appear,and appear and appear lots of times...this is the message-> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/4461/ can you help me?
[09:52] <cberl1> stgraber: One thing I think I filtered out was nbdswap activating -- which is something odd, because I have that disabled in my lts.conf (I'll post to same link)
[09:52] <stgraber> cberl1: It's weird, you don't really have any useful information in your syslog ...
[09:53] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: ok, try moving aside your Gnome config. mv ~/.gnome2 ~/.gnome2_bak and relogin
[09:53] <stgraber> it's like if your server just had a power cut and was rebooted one hour after ...
[09:53] <stgraber> no module error of any kind before the reboot ...
[09:53] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:can you send to me the termila's command please?
[09:54] <cberl1> stgraber: I'll post the whole thing for that timeframe -- my feeling is it may be linked to the nbdswap...
[09:55] <cberl1> Try this:  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/4465/
[09:55] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: mv ~/.gnome2 ~/.gnome2_bak
[09:57] <swimmerino88> LaserJock: ok i did it...now i will relogin
[09:59] <stgraber> cberl1: It's possible but the boot of this .0.240 station isn't different from any other
[09:59] <stgraber> and we don't have any error message ...
[10:01] <cberl1> stgraber: True, but according to my lts.conf, no client should even be using nbdswap...
[10:01] <cberl1> Unless I have the syntax for that wrong?
[10:01] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:nothing it doesn't work
[10:02] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: what happens if you reinstall edubuntu-desktop?
[10:02] <swimmerino88> LaserJock: at the moment I remove edubuntu
[10:03] <stgraber> cberl1: I can't find an up to date list of lts.conf parameters ...
[10:03] <LaserJock> why? I mean it might have taken some things with it that caused the problem
[10:03] <LaserJock> or did the problem already exist before you removed edubuntu-desktop?
[10:03] <stgraber> I know that I had some problem with parameters that exists in LTSP and not in Edubuntu
[10:03] <cberl1> stgraber: Okay, I'll do some digging here.
[10:03] <stgraber> but the latest list I can find is breezy's one :)
[10:04] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:what do you want?that i reinstall it?
[10:04] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: can you try reinstalling edubuntu-desktop
[10:04] <cberl1> stgraber: Somehow I think that one may be a bit dated...
[10:05] <swimmerino88>  LaserJock:and what do i have to do with ubuntu-desktop?
[10:07] <swimmerino88>  LaserJock:ok this is installed and now?with ubuntu desktop???
[10:08] <LaserJock> don't do anything to ubuntu-desktop
[10:08] <LaserJock> just see if you can log in
[10:09] <swimmerino88> ok i will relogin now
[10:09] <cberl1> stgraber: What would this do:  if [ -n "$NBD_SWAP" ] ;then  (found in /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup)
[10:12] <stgraber> if $NBD_SWAP is defined do ...
[10:12] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:It works but without panels only the desktop
[10:13] <cberl1> Yay!  I think I found a bug!  :)
[10:13] <cberl1> if NBD_SWAP is defined (true or false) it enables it!
[10:13] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:it says tu me that there is a pannel working already
[10:13] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: weird, what version of Ubuntu is this?
[10:13] <swimmerino88> swimmerino88:edgy
[10:13] <stgraber> cberl1: can you paste the content of that script ?
[10:14] <stgraber> cberl1: I don't have edubuntu installed at home for the moment
[10:14] <cberl1> stgraber: Sure.  Just one moment...
[10:15] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: ah, ok, in a termianl type killall gnome-panel
[10:16] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:ok now you think that it will work?
[10:17] <LaserJock> it *should*
[10:19] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:and if we do a thing?the file that i saved is called gnome-pannel bug...is there a file in the system called with this name?if is yes...can you copy to me it?and then I will copy it?
[10:20] <cberl1> stgraber: Sorry for the delay.  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/4470/
[10:20] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: that was a bug repot
[10:20] <LaserJock> report
[10:22] <swimmerino88> ok
[10:22] <swimmerino88> i will relogin
[10:23] <stgraber> cberl1: it will only be loaded if $NBD_SWAP is defined, I don't see the problem (except some formating mistakes)
[10:25] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:nothing it doesn't work!:(
[10:25] <LaserJock> you can't log in?
[10:25] <LaserJock> or still no panels?
[10:26] <cberl1> stgraber: That is the problem.  :)  I've got it defined as "False", so it gets set as "on"; defining it makes it true.
[10:26] <cberl1> stgraber: Which is fine, I'll edit my lts.conf to take it out.  If I still get panic, then I've narrowed a problem source, at least.
[10:27] <stgraber> in the worst case you can still do : NBD_SWAP="" just before the if
[10:27] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:i can login,but when te desktop appears there is the windows for the bug reports
[10:27] <stgraber> but that's not a good way to do :)
[10:28] <cberl1> stgraber: True, but I think undefining it for now is fine.  I'm going to test for a while and see if that's it.  I'll post a new syslog if I keep getting kernel panic errors.  Strange that it doesn't put any info in the log, though.
[10:28] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: have you tried rebooting?
[10:29] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:yes!!!
[10:29] <LaserJock> swimmerino88: weird, you can try making another user and logging in as them to see if it's a config problem
[10:30] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:I'm thinking to remove ubuntu-dektop
[10:30] <LaserJock> that won't fix it I don't think
[10:31] <LaserJock> ubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop are almost the same
[10:31] <swimmerino88> LaserJock:yes!for it i want to remove one
[10:31] <cberl1> Well, thanks.  I'll check back in if problems recur.


[01:17] <solarcloud_3srcn> Terrorists WIN !!
[01:27] <daftykins> pow pow
[01:27] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/h6PXrBa.gif
[01:27] <daftykins> amusing GIF, safe for all times
[01:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> nice.. daftykins
[01:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> I've bookmarked it..
[01:44] <solarcloud_3srcn> ' pow pow '.. can't wait to see all of those cat picts today.. Oh wait It's Caturday. Oh dear,
[01:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> http://wp.me/phA9d-Sn has been updated tonight .. at last.. a new book to read !
[09:10] <popey> morning
[09:13] <AlanBell> morning
[09:52] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[12:23] <alexcockell> Morning all..
[12:24] <brobostigon> afternoon alexcockell
[12:24] <popey> hello
[12:24] <alexcockell> Oh - got a bit of a giggle here...
[12:25] <alexcockell> Who here runs LG smart TVs?
[12:25] <alexcockell> Aware there's been a Big Annual Update been roled out?
[12:25] <alexcockell> *rolled
[12:29] <alexcockell> Historically they rolled out updates model by model... only they've now goen to the Universal Update model..
[12:29] <alexcockell> ... and Smart Tvs have massive jumped in sales volumes...
[12:29] <popey> i dont own a smart tv
[12:29] <alexcockell> They have 1 or 2 servers hosting the whole of the UK
[12:30] <alexcockell> ... and I'd guess about 10 million Smart TVs installed int he UK...
[12:30] <alexcockell> They announce an update..
[12:30] <alexcockell> TV prompts you when you start it up...
[12:31] <alexcockell> 400Mb shoudl, on most ADSL connections take about 20 mins tops?
[12:32] <alexcockell> Many complaints about it taking >6hrs
[12:32] <popey> to download or update?
[12:32] <alexcockell> Download - as the telly ideally downloads it itsself..
[12:32] <popey> wouldn't get this with Ubuntu T ;)
[12:32] <alexcockell> 2 boxes hosting 10m?
[12:32] <alexcockell> Yeah - cos we have a CDN...
[12:33] <popey> 10 million!?
[12:33] <popey> from one company
[12:33] <popey> thats 50% of all households
[12:33] <alexcockell> Basing it on them having a 5th of the UK telly market..
[12:33] <popey> unlikely
[12:33] <alexcockell> Multiple tellies?
[12:33] <popey> multiple _smart_ tellies
[12:34] <popey> i still call unlikely
[12:34] <alexcockell> Yeah - point taken - but STBs as well - or WDTV-type units..
[12:34] <popey> from one mfr?
[12:34] <popey> still, fun ☺
[12:34] <alexcockell> Getting on that way though - smart tellies HAVE sold quite heavily over the last couple of years
[12:34] <alexcockell> Consider Sony, Samsung, PG, Panny...
[12:34] <alexcockell> *LG
[12:35] <popey> yeah, but there's a zillion manufacturers
[12:35] <popey> all those cheapo chinese ones you get in tesco too
[12:35] <alexcockell> Well - 5m maybe..
[12:35] <alexcockell> But as back-of-an-envelope calcs...
[12:36] <alexcockell> Still a case that they have piss-poor infrastructure..
[12:37] <alexcockell> I wexpected my router to go mad when attempting the update... net activity lights to flash at a Netflix/iPlayer rate as the update hammered down..
[12:37] <alexcockell> But - no.
[12:37] <alexcockell> they were VERY interested to hear the suggestion of getting someone like Akamai to shoulder the load...
[12:37] <penguin42> alexcockell: Doing all at one is very very dangerous; they're going to have one hell of a bad monday morning when everyone complains about a broken updating
[12:37] <alexcockell> They already have...
[12:38] <alexcockell> Yeah - first time they went to Universal Update model..
[12:38] <alexcockell> Used to be model by model..
[12:39] <alexcockell> Penguin42 - Oh - don't I know!  Been in the 2nd line supprt, and now capacity planning game for long enough!
[12:39] <alexcockell> So instead of maybe 50thou of this model, 20thou of that...
[12:40] <alexcockell> And what happens when they release to the States?
[12:41] <alexcockell> Even the workaround model of download-to-PC, load onto USB key and hope... more risk of bricking the telly..
[12:42] <alexcockell> They released last night - first people jumped on it and got the update - everyone else stuck at "0% updating..." status page....
[12:43] <alexcockell> I bounced the telly a couple of times then thought "fuck this" and cancelled..
[12:43] <alexcockell> And on hearing they had 1 or 2 releas servers - instead of 1 or 2 THOUSAND
[12:46] <brobostigon> is there a terminal version of something like gkrellm, that can read the temperaure from the rpi?
[12:57] <Laney> AIEEEEEEEEEEE
[13:17] <penguin42> brobostigon: I don't know Pi, but most stuff tends to come out of /sys/class/hwmon - e.g. /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input
[13:18] <penguin42> brobostigon: also try sensors-detect
[13:19] <brobostigon> /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp   that seems to be the command to pull the temperature.
[13:19] <brobostigon> penguin42: let me look at that, minute.
[13:21] <brobostigon> nope, there is no /sys/class/hwmon
[13:22] <penguin42> hmph
[13:24] <brobostigon> would it be possible, to create a byobu addon, to lets say every 5 secs, runs that command, and then display it in byobu?
[13:40] <penguin42> brobostigon: Probably; but probably the right way is to figure out how to teach sensors-detect about it, and then I'd bet there's something already like that for lmsensors
[13:42] <brobostigon> penguin42: ok, umm, thank you.
[15:38] <solarcloud_3srcn> morning, Afternoon, whatever (!)
[15:38] <popey> pip pip
[15:38] <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: g'day
[15:39] <solarcloud_3srcn> nice minifigs popey !
[15:40] <solarcloud_3srcn> penguin42: Said g'day when I worked at a flight reserve. agency .. everyone just looked at me funny :)
[15:40] <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: Well it does solve the timezone problem
[15:40] <solarcloud_3srcn> yeah, true.
[15:42] <dwatkins> The history of the Minifig: http://eho.st/pjymxy7h
[15:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> C'est La Vie    .
[15:43]  * solarcloud_3srcn downloads pic hard & forwards to chris pirillo quickly.. thanx.
[15:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> Today I am merely a Log floating on the chat channels of life :) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/01%20Glendalough%20130612%20Pano.jpg
[15:51] <daftykins> haha
[15:51] <daftykins> nice pic that
[16:05] <solarcloud_3srcn> Twenty karma points If Anyone Can Tell Me This Fella's Name ?? http://goo.gl/msSDy
[16:06] <daftykins> pass
[16:06] <solarcloud_3srcn> Aaaww  Poor Freedo .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedo.svg
[16:07] <daftykins> Linux libre 0o
[16:08] <solarcloud_3srcn> mm.. nother mailing list I see :D
[16:08] <daftykins> he appears to be a good choice for a dental mascot
[16:09] <solarcloud_3srcn> yes, he had a brother, but he was like Bert of Bert & Ernie (seen as evils)...
[16:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> Today wil mark the point that I have not successfully watch TV for over 7 months !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Trinitron%20now%20under%20the%20sink.JPG
[16:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> *..will mark...
[16:13] <solarcloud_3srcn> http://t.co/Of6ho1X1
[16:15] <directhex> that sink is vile
[16:15] <directhex> clean it
[16:15] <solarcloud_3srcn> It's already clean, dude ( cleaned it months ago !!)
[16:18] <solarcloud_3srcn> Yoke : Anti-Joke Cat             @AntiJokeCat                                                       Why was six afraid of seven? It wasn't. Numbers are not sentient and thus are incapable of feeling fear.
[16:21] <daftykins> i +1 directhex
[16:21] <daftykins> also, high voltage CRT beside water source, that's a recipe for... fun?
[16:22] <brobostigon> or, sizzzle.
[16:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> it died ages ago.
[16:22] <gord> when is sizzling not fun? sun bathing, bacon, saussages, fun for everyone
[16:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> I mean it is at the tip now ...
[16:23] <brobostigon> not the sizzle when you put electronics in water.
[16:23] <solarcloud_3srcn> I noticed Ubuntu Tv meeting wasn't on last night :(
[16:24] <daftykins> i can't see Ubuntu doing anything good for TV
[16:24] <brobostigon> directhex: whats the ice on the paths in town like?
[16:24] <solarcloud_3srcn> Well, if there's no meeting = there's no collusion or crowdsourcing, so it's no happening either way.
[16:25] <solarcloud_3srcn> **it's not happ...
[16:29] <solarcloud_3srcn> Looking forward to The Last Train to Zona Verde this Spring http://t.co/5BIbOREY
[16:33] <gord> http://www.pcworld.com/article/261487/pc_in_a_keyboard_comes_with_ubuntu_linux_preloaded.html interesting
[16:34] <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
[16:34] <penguin42> gord: Makes sense
[16:34] <penguin42> gord: And not that hard I guess, a full size keyboard is quite big, compare it to a netbook
[16:35] <solarcloud_3srcn> no HDMI ??
[16:36] <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: i think it did happen
[16:37]  * solarcloud_3srcn sees a winblows superkey .. mmmmphf !!
[16:38] <daftykins> 'super' is OS agnostic
[16:38] <daftykins> although if you mean it's adorned by the Windows logo, meh
[16:39] <popey> ☹  windows key
[16:39] <solarcloud_3srcn> must be a sticker for that, somewhere ?
[16:40] <popey> note the old Asus EEE PC which shipped with Linux didn't have a "Windows Key" but a key with a "Home" icon on it
[16:40] <popey> very good reason for that
[16:42] <daftykins> indeed
[16:42] <daftykins> no paying Microsoft
[16:42] <daftykins> for the 'privilege'
[16:42] <popey> other way round
[16:42] <daftykins> really?
[16:42] <popey> Microsoft place great limitations on what the Windows key can do
[16:43] <popey> if you ship a machine running non-windows but with a windows key, microsoft will send the lawyers in
[16:43] <popey> specifically if the windows key does something in software
[16:43] <solarcloud_3srcn> What would canonical do ?
[16:44] <popey> we don't sell hardware, not our problem
[16:44] <solarcloud_3srcn> k
[16:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> I must say, I thnk the 1.8GHz is underpowered, today , As there is the 2.13 GHz Atom processor that does the exact same job.
[16:46] <gord> its a year old article, so yes its using old tech
[16:46] <gord> or half a year even
[16:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> gord: good try thou ;D
[16:47] <gord> a newer atom would put the price up too, i don't think there is much in .3ghz
[16:49] <solarcloud_3srcn> & in other news .. TWIL (Jordan !!) http://twil.tv/2013/01/htc-windows-phone-8x-review-from-an-android-users-point-of-view/ (24thJan'13)
[17:07] <solarcloud_3srcn> Time for porridge .. & sultanas ..
[17:19] <directhex> brobostigon, not so bad now, crunches underfoot
[17:20] <brobostigon> directhex: any chance of me slipping and breaking anything?
[17:20] <directhex> brobostigon, lower than this morning
[17:21] <dwatkins> don't fall in the canal, especially with a phone
[17:21] <dwatkins> my iPhone is booting, but wifi and bluetooth don't work, and the touchscreen isn't working correctly.
[17:21] <brobostigon> directhex: ok, good, i was alittle worried seeing ice everywhere.
[17:21] <brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, best avoided.
[17:23] <daftykins> dwatkins: booting with iOS, or...?
[17:27] <popey> dwatkins: have you done the usual put the phone in a pot of rice/coffee?
[17:28] <popey> bit late now, probably should have back when you hauled yourself out of the canal ⍨
[17:28] <daftykins> ooh now i see what he means
[17:28] <daftykins> indeed, full disassemble time
[17:28] <daftykins> get the anhydrous goodness going
[17:31] <solarcloud_3srcn> https://plus.google.com/u/0/s/rice%20dry%20iphone
[17:47] <solarcloud_3srcn> Anyone heard of Spearmint [not the Rhino !!] ??  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzY
[17:48] <popey> newp
[17:51] <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: Your right, It's Prob.ly not relevant.
[17:55]  * popey shrugs
[18:01] <brobostigon> boots i reckon, for my walk to the pub, play safe.
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> BBC HD - Bletchley Park 's Lost Heroes
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> *now* :)
[18:05] <solarcloud_3srcn> One for VLC :::: http://www.nasa.gov/mp4/721845main_marsdunes20130124-320-jpl.mp4
[18:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> New group on identi.ca  :::http://identi.ca/group/libreplanet
[18:44] <popey> is there any point using identi.ca when Ev is shutting it down?
[18:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> it's not shut down yet .. that's like saying why buy a newspaper if the Idependant 'I' will go outta print.
[18:47] <popey> not really
[18:48] <solarcloud_3srcn> well, it still gives me great news, so it is.
[18:48]  * solarcloud_3srcn lives in the *now*.
[18:48] <solarcloud_3srcn> albeit a noosphere...
[18:59] <czajkowski> popey: why is he shutting it down ?
[19:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> czajkowski: No-one knows , but the new license is MIT , I thnk.  I'll see if anyone's flattr'd it recently, hang-on.
[19:24] <solarcloud_3srcn> Ok, so the founder has only 119 flattr's and mostly uses fbook .. http://flattr.com/profile/evan/things Also people are not 'claiming their donations with http://flattr.com/thing/425469/statusnet-on-Twitter having 42 unclaimed donations. so it's not that there's no money, It's that the dude don't care.
[19:27] <solarcloud_3srcn> What was it that *Mouth* said on the goonies ? All that 'rich stuff' unclaimed ... http://flattr.com/catalog/unclaimed/toplist
[19:47] <popey> czajkowski: he said identica was only ever set up as an example of what status.net can do
[19:48] <popey> he's moved on to pump.io or whatever his new thing of choice is
[19:49] <directhex> identica.ca was never useful
[19:56] <ali1234> suppose i want to install upstream git in /usr/local, how do i remove the packaged version without breaking dependencies?
[19:56] <solarcloud_3srcn> directhex: It's so un-useful it's on my browser bar !!  Maybe some ppl just wouldn't understand.
[19:56] <ali1234> is there some way to make apt think that the package is installed without having the files in the filesystem?
[19:57] <daftykins> sym links not good enough?
[19:57] <solarcloud_3srcn> I dont know what they are ?
[19:57] <ali1234> sym links?
[19:58] <directhex> ali1234, yes. you want software called "equivs"
[19:58] <ali1234> directhex: just found that on askubuntu actually...
[19:58] <directhex> which takes a small input file (there are examples in /usr/share/docs) and produces an empty dummy package to satisfy dependencies
[19:58] <ali1234> http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/
[20:03] <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: it might be good for getting news, but no good for interacting with real people.
[20:04] <ali1234> neither is twitter
[20:10] <popey> meh
[20:12] <ali1234> i'm getting lots of obvious spam accounts on my wordpress
[20:12] <ali1234> but they're not doing anything
[20:13] <ali1234> they all have names that match "wk[a-z]{2}[0-9]{3}[a-z]{3}"
[20:13] <ali1234> and free email addresses from hotmail, gmail, ymail etc
[20:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> ali1234: It's not like anyone knows anyone on wordpress anyway ...
[20:22] <ali1234> what
[20:23] <daftykins> is kismet not spotting them easily?
[20:23] <ali1234> i don't use it on that site
[20:23] <ali1234> kismet scans comments anyway
[20:23] <ali1234> they haven't posted any
[20:23] <daftykins> oh accounts
[20:24] <ali1234> they're just making hundreds of accounts and then not doing anything
[20:24] <daftykins> i'm not even sure if that's happening on mine
[20:24] <daftykins> oh i think i have just requirements to enter name+email
[20:25] <ali1234> we require a full account in order to comment
[20:25] <ali1234> we had zero spam problems
[20:25] <ali1234> well, none have been reported to me anyway
[20:26] <daftykins> hmm wp 3.5.1
[20:27] <ali1234> hmm i like the whirly new icon on raring
[20:27] <ali1234> unity still unbelievably slow in a VM though
[20:28] <daftykins> yeah pretty bad in vmware workstation 8
[20:28] <ali1234> hmm so when i booted raring dbus-service immediately crashed
[20:29] <ali1234> it's reported on launchpad, claims to be fixed released, in the package version i have installed
[20:29] <ali1234> it's clearly the same bug as it's only 2 days old
[20:29] <ali1234> should i reopen bug or make a new one?
[20:29] <ali1234> dconf-service sorry
[20:30] <ali1234> i will make a new bug, and if it is marked duplicate i'll reopen the original bug
[20:30] <ali1234> does the daily image have a build number or something?
[20:31] <penguin42> bug number?
[20:31] <ali1234> bug 1105102
[20:31] <popey> i saw mention of a dconf issue yesterday in -desktop
[20:32] <ali1234> "This bug was fixed in the package glib2.0 - 2.35.4-0ubuntu5"
[20:32] <ali1234> nope, i have that version installed after using daily iso
[20:32] <daftykins> i keep reading 'raring' as RARing
[20:32] <daftykins> :D
[20:32] <ali1234> and it still crashes immediately on first boot
[20:32] <ali1234> daftykins: me too
[20:32] <daftykins> glad to hear i'm not alone there
[20:33] <ali1234> heh, changelog "should" fix
[20:33] <penguin42> ali1234: Reopen I'd say, either that or if you've already opened a new one then put a comment there pointing to it
[20:33] <ali1234> penguin42: ok, i'll reopen
[20:34] <ali1234> actually i might be misreading apt-cache output, let me check
[20:35] <daftykins> are you re-opening 1105102 or 1104883 that's claimed as a dupe too?
[20:35] <ali1234> i dunno yet
[20:36] <ali1234> haven't determined which version is actually installed
[20:36] <ali1234> apt-cache output is horrible and unclear
[20:36] <ali1234> synaptic isn't installed
[20:36] <ali1234> software center won't tell me
[20:36] <ali1234> so i'm kind of stumped
[20:37] <ali1234> ah glib2.0 is a source package anyway
[20:39] <ali1234> actually, i can't reopen the bug
[20:41] <ali1234> well then i'll just make a new one
[20:43] <penguin42> ali1234: dpkg -l to find the current version of something
[20:43] <penguin42> ali1234: (sometimes | cat   to force it to give full version)
[20:43] <ali1234> glib2.0 is a source package... so that doesn't work
[20:44] <ali1234> gotta know the binary name
[20:44] <penguin42> dpkg -l libglib2.0-0
[20:45] <ali1234> yeah
[20:45] <ali1234> it's the new version
[20:45] <ali1234> opened a new bug as it's the only thing i can do
[20:45] <ali1234> but 1106322
[20:46] <ali1234> bug 1106322
[20:46] <ali1234> and it's private
[20:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> that's what she said.
[20:46] <ali1234> bug 1106322
[20:52] <penguin42> hang on
[20:53] <penguin42> ali1234: OK, so you believe it's 1105102 that should be reopened?
[20:54] <ali1234> i don't know
[20:54] <penguin42> ali1234: I've reopened 1105102 and put a link to your new bug
[20:54] <ali1234> since i can't reopen it it's irrelevant what i think :)
[20:55] <penguin42> ali1234: Not necessarily, I might believe you!
[20:56] <ali1234> i have absolutely no idea if it's the same bug or not
[20:56] <ali1234> my question was about the correct procedure
[20:57] <penguin42> ali1234: Looks like it's the same to me; but I suspect the backtrace might not have enough info to be sure
[20:58] <ali1234> well it's pretty easy t reproduce
[20:58] <ali1234> why does no one ever actually look at why this stuff crashes?
[20:58] <ali1234> i mean there's a patch that says "variant checking"
[20:59] <ali1234> what exactly was the variant that caused the crash? and where did it come from?
[20:59] <ali1234> why didn't it happen on developer machines?
[20:59] <ali1234> just fixing bugs is not enough in my opinion
[21:02] <penguin42> ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/glib2.0/raring-proposed/revision/188  is the comemnt on the actual fix
[21:03] <ali1234> tells me absolutely nothing
[21:03] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't think there is any testing on the dailies - so it's entirely possible the first time that glib version has been paired with the app that crashes it didn't come together until that daily was built
[21:04] <ali1234> fair enough
[21:04] <ali1234> but that's speculation
[21:04] <penguin42> ali1234: If you look a the debian/patches/git_fix_gvariant_tuple_checking.patch  entry there is a long explanation of the mistake that was made in glib
[21:04] <ali1234> and besides, if software is really that brittle, something is wron
[21:04] <penguin42> ali1234: Software really is that brittle
[21:07] <ali1234> so what that means is somewhere there is another bug, which is now hidden by fixing this one...
[21:08] <penguin42> ali1234: Well glib is in the end the low level library, so it's the one that's supposed to be the careful one; and  yes I agree the way I read it is the crash is the result of a compound of two bugs
[21:09] <ali1234> i don't think i've ever seen a bug that wasn't really two or more bugs
[21:09] <ali1234> glib should scream blue murder if an app does something bad
[21:10] <ali1234> like instead of spamming warnings that nobody looks at, force terminate the app
[21:10] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried running most gnome apps from the command line and seeing how much screaming goes on?
[21:11] <penguin42> ali1234: It's a hard trade off - do you crash an app because of a small error; you don't really want stuff to crash, so in terms of how many times does it screw up for the end user it's difficult to know; but I'd love for the day when .xsesession-errors is empty to be soon
[21:12] <ali1234> if it crashed like that since day one, developers would have no choice but to fix the problems
[21:12] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh so one way is to have a more severe mode that does crash on every warning and then get the devs to run with that turned on
[21:13] <ali1234> well making it option isn't much use... if they were going to do that they could just look at the warnings
[21:13] <penguin42> ali1234: But then turn that off at release so it doesn't break stuff for the user
[21:14] <ali1234> plus, if it's even possible to continue, why is it even a warning?
[21:14] <penguin42> ali1234: One problem though is when a library adds another check, an app that was written against an older lib would then die even if it would have carried on working
[21:15] <ali1234> so: stop futzing with the API, and stop building tightly coupled systems like dconf
[21:15] <penguin42> ali1234: Doesn't work in practice
[21:15] <ali1234> did anyone ever try it?
[21:16] <penguin42> ali1234: It's not just api futzing, a dev might notice something else that an app could do wrong and add a check for it
[21:17] <ali1234> all possible ways of using an API should be valid
[21:17] <penguin42> ali1234: An interesting difference between debian and ubuntu is that ubuntu uses Fortify that spots buffer overflows, and a lot of universe segs early on because of that spot
[21:17] <ali1234> good :)
[21:18] <penguin42> ali1234: A lot of them are almost false postives; i.e. things that are technically wrong but could never actually cause something to break
[21:18] <ali1234> that's what i mean
[21:18] <ali1234> that shouldn't be a possible situation, ever
[21:19] <ali1234> this is a fundamental problem in software development as we know it
[21:20] <penguin42> ali1234: I think it's harder with things like Java, but they still seem to find ways to crash with Null pointer checks
[21:20] <ali1234> managed code does help but it doesn't stop people making bad APIs
[21:20] <penguin42> ali1234: It feels like what you're asking for is actually impossible
[21:21] <penguin42> it kind of feels like it's wandering into a halting problem like thing
[21:21] <ali1234> ban loops
[21:21] <penguin42> good idea
[21:21] <ali1234> but yeah, that's why i said it's a fundamental problem
[21:22] <penguin42> ali1234: There are languages where dynamic allocation is banned but then they're frankly useless
[21:22] <ali1234> it's not like i have a solution
[21:22]  * penguin42 has worked on some static analysis tools - they're good for some stuff
[21:24] <popey> we use coverity on some projects
[21:25] <penguin42> yeh I've seen some coverity scans - quite neat
[21:26] <penguin42> popey: But ali1234 has a good point; forcing people to watch the warning output of gnome apps would be a good thing!
[21:28] <ali1234> a big problem with those warnings is they are so unspecific
[21:29] <ali1234> could it throw an exception, launch gdb, and show me a backtrace?
[21:29] <penguin42> ali1234: You can nail a debugger on them and find what's going on; compare them to python or java errors where you get a page of splurge and then have to figure out whether you care or not
[21:29] <ali1234> otherwise i have no idea where the problem i
[21:29] <penguin42> yeh I don't think it's hard to attach a debugger to them
[21:30] <ali1234> python errors are excellent. full backtrace every time. what vould be better than that?
[21:30] <penguin42> ali1234: Bit of a pain for warnings; again something switchable so you can see it when you're prepared to takethe time to debug it would be good
[21:31] <ali1234> catch it, or the program crashes
[21:45] <ali1234> oh great, i love it when apport says my packages are out of date even though the new ones aren't available on any mirror.
[21:51] <popey> which mirror?
[21:53] <solarcloud_3srcn> Who cares about real ppl .. It's not who it is but what is being said, surely. 'Real people' .. come from Madrid .. and they're crap in bed anyway.
[21:54] <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, soz that was from some time ago ..
[21:54] <solarcloud_3srcn> (8.10pm)UTC
[23:39] <ali1234> wow ... gnome-panel fails to build from source on raring
[23:39] <ali1234> both the source package and the upstream bug
[23:39] <ali1234> *git
[23:48] <ali1234> bug 1106440
[23:54] <penguin42> ali1234: Is that failing in the build farm as well?
[23:54] <ali1234> i have no idea how t check that
[23:54] <ali1234> but i would love to know
[23:56] <ali1234> successfully built on the 18th
[23:57] <penguin42> erm I can't find it either at the moment, but it's possible one of hte
[23:57] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:3.6.2-0ubuntu3/+build/4071784
[23:58] <penguin42> the packages it depends on has been updated; the other possibility is that you have something in your environment that is stopping it building - e.g. something that's installed that isn't installed on the builders
[23:58] <ali1234> i don't have much installed... literally what i said in the steps to reproduce... it's a vm
[23:58] <ali1234> so i'm guessing the former


[08:37] <Mirv> tsdgeos: the AP is in the PPA. the test case seemed fixed for me too, but it'd look like running full UITK test suite just hangs at some point - in the sense the test app is loaded but it stays there.
[08:50] <Mirv> I killed now one process and will see if the current run finishes eventually
[08:55] <tsdgeos> ok
[08:56] <tsdgeos> i'm also a bit concerned about richard's report of the addressboox app hanging
[08:57] <tsdgeos> trying to reproduce
[09:20] <tsdgeos> i can't reproduce richard's issue
[09:22] <tsdgeos> Cimi: can you do https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/urldispatcher_hideeverything/+merge/253527 ?
[09:22] <tsdgeos> and someone https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/passphrase_kewboard/+merge/253657 ?
[09:51] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: commented on https://code.launchpad.net/~stolowski/unity-api/filters-iface/+merge/252890
[09:52] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, thanks, looking
[10:01] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, is this also a problem with roles, do I need to avoid "id" in role names?
[10:02] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: roles are fine since they're not objects per se
[10:02] <tsdgeos> afaik we have have some other id roles
[10:02] <tsdgeos> in there
[10:02] <tsdgeos> yeah
[10:03] <tsdgeos> ./include/unity/shell/scopes/ScopesInterface.h:109:        roles[RoleId] = "id";
[10:03] <pstolowski> yeah, you're right
[10:03] <pstolowski> thanks
[10:14] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, about your second comment, i can added optionsChanged signal, but it will never be triggered since any changes are changes to options rows (model changes)
[10:14] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, makes sense?
[10:14] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: is the options varaible set correctly on creation alrady?
[10:15] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, yes, it's going to be set on creation of the filter only
[10:15] <tsdgeos> then it's fine
[10:15] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, fine to add but never trigger?
[10:15] <tsdgeos> yes
[10:16] <pstolowski> ok
[10:54] <Mirv> hmm. so slow.
[11:03] <tsdgeos> dednick: i think we should do the same thing i did for all the drags and see fi that helps
[11:03] <tsdgeos> since it seems it may very well be that
[11:03] <tsdgeos> looking at the logs the last movement is very few pixels
[11:47] <alan_g> greyback: does MirSurfaceManager have any reason to hold m_mirServer? I don't see it being used.
[11:52] <greyback> alan_g: quite right, it is unused
[11:52]  * greyback expcted compiler to notice that
[11:52] <greyback> no actually, that would be presumptuous of it
[11:53] <alan_g> The compiler knows there's a non-trivial dtor
[11:54] <alan_g> I just wanted to double check there isn't a weird lifetime issue.
[11:56] <greyback> none I'm aware of, this it an oversight
[12:15] <buggatti> Hello. I am trying to boot a 15.04 next live cd. Whenever i enter the username ubuntu-desktop-next and password, its stuck at login. i can move the cursor around but it wont let me in the gui
[12:54] <alan_g> greyback: not urgent, but would something like this make sense to you? https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/qtmir/spike-using-WindowManager/+merge/254235
[12:58] <greyback> alan_g: looks reasonable at first glance. You've got work to do to replace our custom input dispatcher with the handle_*_event bits, but nothing huge. Direction looks good
[12:59] <alan_g> greyback: I don't *have* to change that. (At least not for a stable form.)
[13:00] <greyback> alan_g: true
[13:01] <greyback> alan_g: question, would "handle_*_event" supposed to communicate things like close event or focus/unfocus? A nested compositor would probable need to know such things
[13:02] <alan_g> BTW how do you go about building the stack and deploying on a phone? Every time I try I can't help feeling there's a better way...
[13:03] <greyback> alan_g: either building on device, or an sbuild chroot
[13:03] <greyback> if you disable tests building, dev on device isn't so bad
[13:04] <alan_g> How do you get space on the device to install the build tools?
[13:04] <greyback> I don't hit that issue usually
[13:05] <greyback> if you're changing mir too, then yeah, that's a problem
[13:05] <alan_g> Well, it is up to the WM to set focus etc, so yes
[13:06] <alan_g> I can probably work around that.
[13:06] <alan_g> Gotta go
[13:06] <greyback> enjoy
[13:30] <larsu> *giggle* "
[13:30] <larsu> Please note that Antti's "Disapprove" review is a joke.
[13:50] <tsdgeos> @unity: guys my unity8 is not accepting any touch at all
[13:50] <tsdgeos> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10683845/
[13:52] <tsdgeos> any clue?
[13:53] <tsdgeos> greyback: thread 22 suspicious?
[13:53] <dandrader> tsdgeos, no
[13:53]  * tsdgeos gets more debug symbols
[13:53] <greyback> tsdgeos: thread 22 in that state means the main loop is blocked
[13:54] <tsdgeos> greyback: that sounds bad
[13:54] <tsdgeos> :D
[13:54] <greyback> yeah
[13:54] <greyback> it is mir asking qt to authorize an application connection
[13:54] <greyback> and is waiting for a blockingqueuedconnection to return
[13:54] <tsdgeos> yet
[13:54] <tsdgeos> on screen
[13:55] <tsdgeos> i have soemthing that used to be a sdk test application
[13:55] <tsdgeos> that is not even running anymore
[13:55] <greyback> renderer is blocked too then
[13:57] <tsdgeos> greyback: anything else more i can do than filing a bug?
[13:58] <greyback> tsdgeos: is anything using lots of cpu? is dbus busy?
[13:58] <greyback> I don't see a good clue in that BT sadly
[13:58] <tsdgeos> cpu is idle
[13:58] <tsdgeos> dbus-monitor says nothing
[13:58] <greyback> ok
[13:59] <greyback> can you get the thread names
[13:59] <tsdgeos> sure
[14:00] <tsdgeos> greyback: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10683891/
[14:00] <greyback> tsdgeos: any ide what those pool threads are?
[14:00] <greyback> idea
[14:00] <tsdgeos> greyback: gio
[14:01] <tsdgeos> which we don't use but somehow we're stuck with afaik
[14:01] <greyback> hmm ok
[14:02] <greyback> tsdgeos: oh hang on, thread 9 is weird
[14:02] <greyback> that's the render thread
[14:03] <greyback> it's blocked waiting for a new buffer from mir
[14:03] <tsdgeos> mir is still unity8 here, no?
[14:03] <tsdgeos> or is it usc?
[14:03] <greyback> yeah, mir is a lib unity8 uses
[14:03] <tsdgeos> any clue which thread shuould supply that buffer?
[14:05] <greyback> not sure, I suspect thread 23 but am not sure
[14:05] <greyback> asking mir folk...
[14:05] <greyback> tsdgeos: please log a bug anyway, including unity8.log
[14:06] <tsdgeos> k
[14:06] <tsdgeos> i'll get some more debug symbols intsalled
[14:06] <tsdgeos> greyback: this is not "hard" to get it seems
[14:06] <tsdgeos> happens if you run the sdk suite
[14:07] <greyback> hmm
[14:07] <greyback> not what I like to hear :(
[14:07] <tsdgeos> seems more easily if you have the silo we have that makes qt dbus locking less
[14:08] <tsdgeos> but there's nothing that would seem to blame qtbus in that bt
[14:08] <tsdgeos> i'll note it in the bug anyway
[14:08] <tsdgeos> just in case
[14:11] <greyback> tsdgeos: what mir version?
[14:29] <tsdgeos> QQuickAsyncImageProvider merged \o/
[14:38] <greyback> tsdgeos: nice one
[14:38] <greyback> tsdgeos: link? We backported to 5.4?
[14:40] <tsdgeos> greyback: not yet
[14:40] <tsdgeos> greyback: https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/108540/
[14:40] <tsdgeos> only needed 17 patchsets :D
[14:41] <tsdgeos> and https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/thumbnailer/asyncprovider is our counterpart
[14:41] <tsdgeos> which i think doesn't compile now
[14:41] <tsdgeos> since i had to change stuff upstream to make them happy
[14:42] <greyback> tsdgeos: no worries. just wanna be familiar with the api
[14:42] <tsdgeos> there's not much
[14:42] <tsdgeos> basically you get a job
[14:42] <tsdgeos> and then you signal done()
[14:42] <tsdgeos> it's up to you to spawn threads and stuff
[14:42] <tsdgeos> i think it's not done() but finished()
[14:42] <tsdgeos> :D
[14:42] <tsdgeos> but you know what i mean
[14:48] <greyback> gotcha
[15:19] <tsdgeos> lol
[15:19] <tsdgeos> make testDialogs was doing nothing
[15:19] <tsdgeos> :D
[15:20] <tsdgeos> Mirv: \o/
[15:20] <tsdgeos> Loading tests from: /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages
[15:20] <tsdgeos> Tests running...
[15:20] <tsdgeos> Ran 365 tests in 2579.659s
[15:20] <tsdgeos> OK
[15:20] <tsdgeos> greyback: that silo seems ot really help
[15:20]  * tsdgeos launches again
[15:21] <greyback> tsdgeos: sweet
[15:21] <Mirv> tsdgeos: good that you caught me still, I can still launch a 018+013 full suite then now
[15:23] <Mirv> and, \o/ if a working combo of Mir + Qt + Autopilot is found
[15:23] <tsdgeos> he he
[15:24] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: test updated https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/passphrase_kewboard/+merge/253657
[15:26] <tsdgeos> Mirv: you probably need my autopilot change too, do you have that one?
[15:27] <mzanetti> tsdgeos, ack
[15:27] <Mirv> tsdgeos: hmm? you mean the one I submitted to ap1.5 and added to the PPA, or something new?
[15:28] <tsdgeos> Mirv: that one
[15:28] <tsdgeos> ah didn't know you had it in the ppa already
[15:28] <tsdgeos> good then
[15:28] <Mirv> tsdgeos: right, the MP is there in the PPA.
[15:28] <dandrader> tsdgeos, yeah, it's there only for its "try" version
[15:29] <tsdgeos> dandrader: lol right i broke the try now
[15:57] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: there was no test for this functionality https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/urldispatcher_hideeverything/+merge/253527 originally
[15:58] <tsdgeos> but i guess i can write one for my fix
[15:58] <tsdgeos> and for the feature itself
[15:58] <tsdgeos> will take a bit but it's good to have another test
[16:22] <faenil> tsdgeos: can any of the properties of a Result be used as a unique id?
[16:22] <faenil> to look for an item and similar tasks
[16:22] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: ↑↑
[16:22] <faenil> uri is probably not unique enough
[16:24] <tsdgeos> faenil: result is
[16:24] <tsdgeos> since it's basically the pointer
[16:24] <tsdgeos>         case RoleResult:
[16:24] <tsdgeos>             return QVariant::fromValue(std::static_pointer_cast<unity::scopes::Result>(m_results.at(index.row())));
[16:24] <tsdgeos> not sure the mock implements it that way
[16:24] <tsdgeos> if it doesn't it should :D
[16:25] <tsdgeos> or at least return something that is unique
[16:26] <faenil> tsdgeos: in the mocks it's a string
[16:26] <faenil> but ok, thanks!
[16:26] <tsdgeos> faenil: but is it unique?
[16:26] <faenil> yeah,
[16:27] <tsdgeos> then it's "ok2
[16:27] <tsdgeos> "
[16:31] <pstolowski> faenil, none of the results' attributes should be treated as a key, we do not impose any constraints on any values to be unique.. as tsdgeos says you may relay on the pointers, but this is of course a hack/workaround. note, when you do a new search or refresh, you get new result instances even though the data looks the same
[16:33] <faenil> pstolowski: mmm ok...
[16:33]  * tsdgeos missed something
[16:33] <tsdgeos> what's the ok for?
[16:34] <pstolowski> faenil, on new search we basically wipe the model and create new result instances
[16:34] <faenil> pstolowski: I see
[16:34] <faenil> tsdgeos: in reply to pstolowski
[16:34] <tsdgeos> oki
[16:36] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, fyi "faenil, none of the results' attributes should be treated as a key, we do not impose any constraints on any values to be unique.. as tsdgeos says you may relay on the pointers, but this is of course a hack/workaround. note, when you do a new search or refresh, you get new result instances even though the data looks the same"
[16:37] <tsdgeos> sure
[16:37] <tsdgeos> i meant that for a given set of results
[16:37] <tsdgeos> you can use the pointer as key
[16:37] <tsdgeos> but won't be stable or regresh or something
[16:37] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, ok.. i didn't know what is it for
[16:38] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: me neither :D
[17:58] <om26er> mzanetti, Hi! who is the best person for bug 1436982 ?
[17:59] <om26er> actually it should be dednick ^
[17:59] <mzanetti> probably
[17:59] <mzanetti> let me try to reproduce
[18:02] <om26er> 'Clear all' button.
[18:02] <mzanetti> yeah... so far not happened. but only had telegram notifications in it. let me try with a missed call
[18:05] <om26er> mzanetti, same happens when you change volume from sound Menu
[18:06] <om26er> when notification appears, try to flick close the menu up
[18:06] <mzanetti> hmm... no problem here...
[18:06] <mzanetti> om26er, maybe try checking if unity8.log prints something suspicious
[18:09] <om26er> mzanetti, on rtm right now, will flash and update you/bug_report.
[18:16] <dednick> mzanetti, om26er: yeah, that's probably me.
[18:16] <mzanetti> ack
[18:22] <om26er> dednick, mzanetti try to clear while the notification is still on screen.