 Anyone tested Bluetooth earphones? I can connect them, but fail to have them select/appear in the output/input sound device.
[19:19] <ItzSwirlz> QA testers: I've confirmed this on two of my machines, can someone check out LP #1991457
[19:25] <ItzSwirlz> https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/issues/2209
 confirmed (re @ubuntu_bridge_Bot: (irc) <ItzSwirlz> QA testers: I've confirmed this on two of my machines, can someone check out LP #1991457)
[19:33] <ItzSwirlz> ty @Leokolb. Fedora says it's not happening to them so I'm completely clueless.


[00:06] <phillw> balloons: and, yes, the thankyou area has to be moved... as to how prominent you wish to make it?  Well, I'm glad I'm not deciding :)
[01:27] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/TheStages and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/Activities have been edited, I really cannot see a better place to add in 'thank you' but to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/Activities#Thank-you Feel free to go edit, once you've edited the cadence stuff!
[01:29] <phillw> JasonO: of course, one of these days you will actually be on line :)
[01:30] <JasonO> Hi PhillW :)
[01:30] <phillw> JasonO: how's the leg?
[01:30]  * JasonO mobile
[01:31] <JasonO> PhillW: It's getting better
[01:31] <phillw> good, I've not had a reply from your name sake as to email accounts etc. They're pretty busy with RL as well.
[01:32] <JasonO> No problem, I can wait.
[01:33] <phillw> I can add you as an @phillw.net email address... maybe best chat on ##phillw and not the QA channel :)
[01:34] <JasonO> Alright :)
[04:18] <pitti> Good morning
[04:18] <pitti> xnox: partman is no problem, I have that figured out; the problem is grub-install, that fails when you call it on a device which isn't visible by the bios (like /dev/md0)
[04:18] <pitti> xnox: I haven't found a good workaround for that, as you can't just divert it (it's copied from /rofs and called in the chroot)
[06:19] <DanChapman> Good Morning all :-)
[07:16] <jibel> good morning
[08:23] <xnox> pitti: it should be possible to preseed skipping grub-install.
[08:23] <xnox> pitti: we already have normal fully automated preseeding of ubiquity, so we do know grub-install works from the installer.
[08:24] <pitti> xnox: ah, how would I do this? can this be done in an already running live environment, or does this need to be passed on the kernel command line?
[08:24] <xnox> either.
[08:24] <xnox> pitti: let me find the option =)
[08:24] <pitti> xnox: yeah, unless the UI wants to cover that part, but better we cover all the rest than nothing
[08:24] <pitti> xnox: thanks; I'll give that a try once you tell me the s3kr1t command
[08:27] <DanChapman> xnox, hey can i pester you in a little while about some of the dialog widgets? Am just getting a list together with some examples first
[08:27] <jibel> pitti, how did you make partman believe there is a physical device it can use? I didn't failed to find how
[08:28] <pitti> jibel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5883443/ are my notes
[08:28] <xnox> DanChapman: what about them?
[08:29] <pitti> jibel: in short, I create a raid-0 md backed by a loop device
[08:29] <pitti> jibel: that's a block device which you can partition, and which partman accepts
[08:29] <jibel> pitti, ah, ok, I missed the second part
[08:29] <pitti> and then parted_devices needs to be filtered to only return that one, otherwise it happily scribbles over the mounted(!!) /dev/vda
[08:30] <pitti> (if you accept the defaults)
[08:30] <pitti> jibel: I still have an open WI for this, when I test xnox' grub-install pre-seeding I'll update the spec and put the recipe there
[08:30] <jibel> pitti, I didn't find the "echo ... /bin/parted_devices" bits
[08:30] <jibel> nice trick
[08:31] <DanChapman> xnox, i have been having autopilot complaining about object has no positional attributes. For both the ubi_question_dialog and the partition_dialog.
[08:31] <jibel> pitti, to run ubiquity ap tests, I went the qemu way with a /custom-installation directory into initrd to load the tests on the live imag
[08:31] <jibel> e
[08:32] <xnox> pitti: ubiquity --help says -b, --no-bootloader  Do not install a bootloader.
[08:32] <pitti> jibel: i. e. you added a second virtio disk?
[08:32] <pitti> xnox: oh, handy
[08:32] <xnox> pitti:  it _should_ work, but possibly not tested that well =)
[08:32] <pitti> xnox: let's find out
[08:33] <xnox> pitti: which is equivalent to injecting os.environ['UBIQUITY_NO_BOOTLOADER'] = '1' into the environment variables.
[08:33] <jibel> pitti, I create an empty disk with qemu-img, extract the kernel and initrd from the iso and boot from the iso with the custom initrd, kernel and kernel arguments
[08:33] <xnox> (can be passed as kernel arg / environment variable)
[08:35] <pitti> o
[08:35] <pitti> thanks qemu for stealing my focus
[08:36] <jibel> DanChapman, Hey, I enabled videos for app tests, that makes the FF failure pretty clear https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot-ubuntu-applications/17/label=autopilot-ati/artifact/results/autopilot/videos/
[08:39] <DanChapman> xnox, the buttons on the ubi_question_dialog I can only see/select the GtkButtonBox, but not the GtkButtons inside. I tried blindly selecting them by their label value. Are they generated at runtime depending on question?
[08:39] <DanChapman> hence why i can't see them
[08:40] <xnox> DanChapman: they are generated at runtime based on what debconf is asking. To that ubi_question_dialog is  a "template" which gets dynamically populated.
[08:40] <xnox> not sure how to introspect that....
[08:40] <DanChapman> jibel, hey :-) awesome cheers. I'll go take a look...
[08:40] <pitti> xnox: oh, and the other problem is that with this md setup I always get straight into the "custom partition" dialog, it doesn't offer me auto-partitioning; do you know why that is?
[08:41] <pitti> I guess DanChapman's test cover the automatic partitioning modes
[08:41] <DanChapman> pitti i'm just trying to finish off custom part test at the moment
[08:42] <pitti> right, but we should have both; right now, with the /dev/md device it's not how ubiquity usually behaves
[08:42] <pitti> so we need to fix that
[08:47] <xnox> pitti: right, so if partman-auto falls on it's face and doesn't offer any autopartitioning options, partman goes straight to the "custom partitioning dialog" instead of offering "choose how to partition your device", in ubiquity this translates into "drop me to the custom partition page"
[08:47] <xnox> pitti: the solution here is to troubleshoot why partman-auto didn't fancy any of the offered drives.
[08:48] <xnox> pitti: how can I run your setup to reproduce and debug it?
[08:48] <pitti> xnox: right; I guess it makes some tests on the devices and weeds out the md ones
[08:48] <pitti> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5883488/
[08:48] <pitti> xnox: this is the script that I'm running before calling ubiquity -b
[08:49] <pitti> xnox: I create a 10 GB partition with qemu-img create -f qcow2 test.img 10G
[08:49] <pitti> and run the whole thing in
[08:49] <pitti> kvm -m 1600 -vga vmware -drive if=virtio,index=0,file=test.img -cdrom ~/download/ubuntu/saucy-desktop-amd64.iso
[08:49]  * pitti does a test run with manual partitioning for now
[08:51] <DanChapman> xnox, ok I might have to keep keyboard nav on that one.
[08:52] <xnox> pitti: ok thanks. let me play with that.
[08:52] <pitti> xnox: (in case it wasn't clear already, that script gets run as root inside the VM)
[08:54] <xnox> pitti: once on manual partitioning page, verify that "install grub on to device...." drop down is either (a) not there at all or (b) "do not install grub" or something like that.
[08:55] <xnox> that's the behaviour "-b" should make.
[08:55] <pitti> xnox: (I think) I didn't see it, so it seems to work
[08:58] <pitti> xnox: nice, it finished successfully now, modulo the manual partitioning
[08:58] <pitti> xnox: so -b works
[08:59] <xnox> \o/ good =) means we didn't break installer too much this cycle yet.
[09:00] <xnox> pitti: i transitioned ubiquity to use pkexec and now it can't drop priviliges back to user "ubuntu" and talk to dbus =( should I be spawning my own session dbus as root then?
[09:01] <xnox> pitti: ideally i'd like to still be able to talk to the "ubuntu" user dbus.....
[09:01] <pitti> xnox: why can't it drop privs?
[09:01] <pitti> because you are missing the original $DBUS_SESSION_ADDRESS env var?
[09:01] <xnox> pkexec conveniently clears the environment for me, so once i'm back to being "ubuntu" user, I no longer have any of the session's environment vars.
[09:01] <xnox> yeap.
[09:02] <xnox> pitti: should I insercurily write it into a predictable name file & read it off there? or do i need to have yet another wrapper for this.....
[09:02] <pitti> xnox: "pkexec env USER_BUS=$DBUS_SESSION_ADDRESS ubiquity", and when you drop privs, set DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=$USER_BUS ?
[09:03] <xnox> pitti: nice =) let me try that.
[09:03] <pitti> xnox: how did you do that with sudo? sudo -E ?
[09:03] <xnox> yeah, we had all three: gksudo, kdesudo, sudo all with extra hacks to keep the whole env.
[09:03] <pitti> xnox: you wrote a .policy for passing through DISPLAY? (<annotate key="org.freedesktop.policykit.exec.allow_gui">TRUE</annotate>)
[09:04] <xnox> pitti: yeah, I have policy to keep the display, that was the first thing =)
[09:04] <pitti> xnox: otherwise sudo isn't going anywhere anytime soon
[09:05] <xnox> pitti: also ev was asking how to write a policy file that does this "let through, without asking, if the $user is in admin group. deny everyone else, do not offer any authentication" can policykit express this?
[09:07] <pitti> xnox, DanChapman, jibel: FYI, I uploaded my current script and adjusted the whiteboard in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-upstream-test-development to point out what it is and where it lives
[09:07] <pitti> xnox: not in a .policy file, but you can write a .pkla to do that
[09:07] <pitti> xnox: check /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla in the policykit-desktop-privileges for examples, which does exactly this
[09:08] <xnox> Parkout Los Angeles? =)
[09:08] <xnox> ok, thanks. let's look.
[09:08] <pitti> xnox: e. g. it allows admins on the foreground session to mount internal partitions or set the system clock
[09:09] <xnox> pitti: so that's what I need to change to make usb-creator stop asking questions again!
[09:10] <pitti> xnox: please not; having any firefox plugin be able to format your internal hard drives or changing the boot sector is evil
[09:11] <xnox> pitti: well, usb-creator is a dbus service and only deals with removable media by default..... but ok, I see your point.
[09:19] <pitti> xnox: it doesn't enforce the "removable" on the d-bus level, though? if it does, we can certainly silence it
[09:22] <xnox> pitti: right good point. i should finally merge and debug udisks2 branch, then we have higher granulality of removable disks, I don't see a problem iff it's limited to stickly current active user's usb-disks / sd-cards.
[09:22] <xnox> there is an option to run usb-creator against all devices, but i guess that should request admin escalation straight away.
[09:42] <gema> cking: amd64 for the power tests is enabled
[09:42] <gema> cking: andy is working on getting i386 enabled as well
[09:42] <gema> (andy: doanac)
[09:43] <cking> gema, many thanks, I've been looking at those today and I'm now investigating the  power regressions I observe in these latest test
[09:43] <gema> cking: ack
[11:01] <DanChapman> xnox, for custom partitioning what partition layout/s would you say it should test as there is quite a few options to choose from. Is it worth it for you guys testing all the different ways?
[11:03] <xnox> DanChapman: i'm not sure, how/what should be tested on the custom partitioning page as it heavily depends on the environment the test is run under.
[11:04] <xnox> DanChapman: a much higher priority engineering wise, for us to integrate pitti's proposed way of running the tests and fake/provision a pre-installed disk and test "automatic resize" page. As automatic dual-boot partition is used very often, and is known to regress in the past.
[11:07] <DanChapman> xnox, ok cool. Well i will leave it as a standard / with swap for now. It won't take much to expand it to others if needed.
[11:08] <DanChapman> xnox, I can make a start on a test for dual-boot I have a spare box i run these tests on anyways so will make a start on it.
[11:49]  * DanChapman is sure that will be the last of FF fails
[11:49] <slickymaster> good morning
[11:50] <DanChapman> slickymaster, morning
[11:50] <slickymaster> elfy, are you there?
[11:52] <slickymaster> DanChapman: I was going to assign myself to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1198452 when I noticed that Jack Fromm had already assign himself to it. Thing is he did not marked the bug status as In Progress, don't you think it should be changed?
[11:54] <slickymaster> DanChapman: reason is that if you filter the bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?field.tag=xubuntu&orderby=status&start=0 by status it's misleading
[11:55] <DanChapman> two secs just looking
[11:56] <slickymaster> ok
[11:59] <DanChapman> slickymaster, I would contact Jack to confirm he has made a start which if he has then it can be changed to in progress.
[12:00] <slickymaster> DanChapman: ok, I'll mail him, asking it. Thanks
[12:00] <DanChapman> slickymaster, if you look at his bugs list https://bugs.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail he probably marks as in progress as he works his way through
[12:01] <slickymaster> DanChapman: just saw it. You're probably right
[12:02] <slickymaster> DanChapman: it's just a issue of different approaches on the work progress
[12:03] <slickymaster> DanChapman: anyway, thanks
[12:03] <DanChapman> np
[15:04] <elopio> ping balloons. Can you approve branches on the calendar?
[15:06] <balloons> elopio, indeed I can
[15:06] <elopio> balloons: two quickies, please:
[15:06] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-calendar-app/fix1201483-pep8/+merge/174830
[15:06] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-calendar-app/fix1201498-pyflakes/+merge/174833
[15:08] <balloons> elfy, sure thing!
[15:09]  * DanChapman notices balloons got name wrong ;-P
[15:10] <balloons> BAH!!!!!
[15:10] <elopio> :) elfy, we will have to fight with knives to see who keeps the nickname.
[15:10]  * balloons notes elfy has a secondary name already
[15:13] <DanChapman> balloons, finally got to the bottom of the firefox problem. I think i tagged you for a review anyways
[15:13] <balloons> DanChapman, ohh.. I'll add it to the list of reviews.. today is review day :-)
[15:14] <DanChapman> balloons, everyones keeping you busy if you have to dedicate a day to reviews :-)
[15:15] <balloons> DanChapman, shouldn't take all day, lol :-p But it has happened before
[15:15] <balloons> I consider it quite a wonderful thing when it does happen
[15:24] <elopio> thanks for the reviews balloons. fginther, can you add the static checks to ubuntu-calendar-app, please?
[15:24] <elopio> on tests/autopilot folder.
[15:26] <fginther> elopio, will do
[15:27] <balloons> fginther, speaking of which ?I have a list of apps for you to turn on if you haven't
[15:27] <balloons> I went through them all again this morning
[15:28] <balloons> fginther, stock ticker, sudoku, calculator, calendar, clock, file manager, terminal, weather
[15:49] <elfy> elopio: we'll need to decide using age - I'm 4.7billion years old
[15:50] <elopio> elfy: no, fight to dead!
[15:50] <elfy> :)
[16:02] <fginther> balloons, ack. Do you want me to make sure the autopilot tests pass first?
[16:03] <balloons> fginther, sure give them a trial run, but in theory they all work
[16:03] <fginther> balloons, got it
[16:07] <DanChapman> balloons, did you get hold of Vasudevan the other day?
[16:08] <balloons> DanChapman, I sent him back a mail and it seems his crazy setup woes have passed. I haven't heard back on the testing front though
[16:09] <DanChapman> balloons, ok cool :-) hopefully hear something soon if he is back up and running
[16:20] <dkessel> good evening.
[16:20] <dkessel> balloons, i need some help finishing the first music app test
[16:20] <balloons> dkessel, hello sir!
[16:21] <dkessel> how do i query for a property value of the MainView object?
[16:22] <dkessel> for example this does not work: currentArtist = self.main_window.currentArtist
[16:23] <balloons> dkessel, there is a getProperty function
[16:23] <dkessel> aah :)
[16:23] <balloons> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/introspection.html
[16:23] <balloons> well  get_properties() :-)
[16:24] <balloons> but I'm not sure that answers your question or not actually :-)
[16:24] <balloons> have you got a branch on lp? that makes it much easier
[16:29] <balloons> dkessel, ^^
[16:34] <dkessel> balloons, I'd like to commit my branch, but I messed up my local branch with a merge - just trying to fix it now... branch: lp:~d-kessel/music-app/test_read_music_from_home
[16:35] <balloons> dkessel, kk
[16:37] <dkessel> balloons, ok I did it :) check the branch...
[16:42]  * balloons grabs
[16:48] <balloons> dkessel, ok so hmm
[16:50] <balloons> dkessel, ok so looking at the mainview object, it has the properties you want
[16:50] <balloons> the object name is set in the qml already
[16:50] <balloons> objectName: "music"
[16:50] <balloons> so grab that object using  a select, then you should be able to nab the properties
[16:51] <balloons> at the moment, your using the mainWindow object which isn't what you want :-)
[16:51] <balloons> dkessel, does that make sense?
[16:52] <balloons> dkessel, also, in the debian/control file add the example-content package so the tests will run in the jenkins enviroment :-)
[16:52] <balloons> you can put it in the depends for Package: music-app-autopilot
[17:10] <dkessel> balloons, hmmmm self.app.select_single('music') returns None :/ also, a bit to get in my head, that mainview and mainView are different objects...
[17:13] <balloons> dkessel, let me help a bit
[17:13] <balloons> dkessel, your not grabbing the MainView object
[17:15]  * dkessel launches autopilot vis again
[17:16] <dkessel> balloons, is this.app the QQuickView?
[17:16] <balloons>         main = self.app.select_single("MainView", objectName = "music")
[17:16] <balloons>         props = main.get_properties()
[17:19] <balloons> dkessel, this doesn't work but it's what I was trying to get across:
[17:19] <balloons> main = self.app.select_single("MainView", objectName = "music")
[17:19] <balloons> title = lambda: main.get_properties().currentTracktitle
[17:19] <balloons> self.assertThat(title, Eventually(Equals("Swansong")))
[17:19] <balloons> :-)
[17:20] <balloons> however, removing the getProperties nonsense lets it work properly :-p
[17:21] <balloons> dkessel, I'll avoid spamming the chat any further, but this paste works
[17:21] <balloons> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5884919/
[17:24] <dkessel> balloons, ready to merge (i hope) ;)
[17:24] <balloons> dkessel, :-)
[17:24] <balloons> does what I did make sense to you?
[17:27] <dkessel> tbh, I still have a hard time getting what the app object is exactly
[17:27] <balloons> the self.app?
[17:28] <balloons> that's the autopilot library
[17:28] <balloons> check out __init__.py
[17:28] <balloons> self.app = self.launch_test_application(
[17:32] <dkessel> mh ok. more grepping next time =) now i get it... i still have a hard time finding declarations and stuff in python programs in general. maybe i should get away from gedit...
[17:32] <balloons> dkessel, I can happily recommend geany
[17:33] <balloons> it's all the lightweight goodness of gedit with the sanity of tabs and a useful sidebar. Not to mention block editing, and a real find and replace, along with some macro support
[17:37] <dkessel> balloons, I am going to give it a try then. Well, that's might be all I can do this week as far as autopilot test writing goes...
[17:37] <balloons> dkessel, :-) no worries, a bug closed and a test written brings us one step closer. You going to make a merge request?
[17:38] <dkessel> balloons, i don't think this closes any open bug (?)
[17:39] <balloons> dkessel, hmm.. we should have a bug for reading the music directory and loading a library
[17:41] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/1202323
[17:41] <balloons> :-p
[17:44] <dkessel> balloons, thx :) now the branch is linked and the merge proposal is out
[17:44] <balloons> I should add stuff for the playlist features too :-)
[17:47] <balloons> dkessel, so I'm looking at the diff for this.. I think perhaps your changing more than you intended?
[17:47] <balloons> is your branch based off of trunk, or an older branch?
[17:48] <dkessel> it was based on trunk... a few days ago ;)
[17:56]  * dkessel searches "bzr for dummies"... now how did i get that branch so messed up... and how do i get it right again....
[17:56] <dkessel> yeah, vthompson already commented on that too
[17:57] <dkessel> balloons, ^ :/
[17:57] <balloons> dkessel, :-)
[17:57] <balloons> yes, well to fix it you can rebase to trunk
[17:58] <balloons> it shouldn't have any issues to do so as you've not touched anything in the core codebase
[18:01] <balloons> that said dkessel , bzr merge lp:music-app isn't doing what I hoped
[18:02] <dkessel> i used 'bzr revert' because after a 'bzr update' if said i had changed all those files... which i hadn't... and now those files are back in some old revision i think....mh
[18:02] <dkessel> if -> it
[18:03] <balloons> dkessel, well worst case scenario you re-pull trunk, copy/paste the test directory in and propose it since you only touched those files :-)
[18:04] <balloons> I'm a little confused as to how to solve, but I'd like to figure it out :-)
[18:04] <dkessel> balloons, did I mention we still use CVS at work? =)
[18:04] <balloons> dkessel, lol
[18:04] <balloons> why still cvs?
[18:04] <balloons> dkessel, http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.1.0/en/quick-reference/quick-start-summary.svg
[18:05] <dkessel> balloons, management... i guess i should not discuss this in a public irc channel :)
[18:05] <balloons> sure..
[18:05] <knome> dkessel, no, definitely not. swearing is against the guidelines.
[18:05] <balloons> rofl knome! such timing!
[18:05] <knome> dkessel, referring to the three letter abbreviation starting with c...
[18:05] <dkessel> knome, lol
[18:06] <balloons> dkessel, right, you doing a bzr update should pull everything down that changed
[18:06] <dkessel> balloons, it did. now it does not anymore...
[18:06] <dkessel> balloons, after me 'bzr revert'ing everything. oops
[18:07] <balloons> dkessel, can you do a bzr merge lp:music-app?
[18:07] <balloons> I'm stuck because your branch is the parent branch for me :-)
[18:07] <dkessel> "Nichts zu tun." / "nothing to do"
[18:10] <dkessel> balloons, too bad. i really have to leave. i don't like to leave things this way...
[18:10] <dkessel> anyway. bye
[18:10] <balloons> dkessel, you have time to do the copy/paste method?
[18:10] <balloons> if not, well.. dkessel cheers and good night!
[18:12] <xeranas> hello
[18:18] <balloons> xeranas, hello!
[18:23] <xeranas> balloons: just for learning purpose I made branch with some changes of one test
[18:24] <xeranas> I'm not propose yet, because I'm not sure if it good idea to check it and how it do better.
[18:27] <balloons> xeranas, what branch?
[18:28] <xeranas> balloons: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xeranas/sudoku-app/UPDATE_FOR_NEW_GAME_BUTTON_TEST/revision/85
[18:34] <balloons> xeranas, k, let me have a look
[18:35] <balloons> so looks like you wanted to check the button text as well and issue an assert about it?
[18:35] <xeranas> yea, but I do not have better idea to check if sudoku table was re-generated with new numbers
[18:37] <xeranas> also, there are chance that table will be generated same all depends from 'random' factor. So it is question if we need check this re-generation behavior at all
[18:45] <fginther> balloons, I finished rerunning the autopilot suites in jenkis
[18:46] <balloons> xeranas, sure.. well, it's an interesting idea
[18:53] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello
[18:54] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hello :)
[18:54] <balloons> fginther, ok so these all look like dependency issues?
[18:54] <balloons> well, many of them I guess.. I should be able to help out on dependency issues
[18:54] <fginther> balloons, terminal and weather appear to be
[18:55] <Letozaf_> balloons, I saw the sudoku app merge  problem, is there something I can do, or you guys are gonna fix this ?
[18:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, if you can fix on your end it would be good
[18:55] <balloons> I broke your merge so you can blame me :-)
[18:56] <balloons> just do a bzr update and comit
[18:56] <balloons> should be fine
[18:56] <balloons> xeranas, so does the test pass still with your changes?
[18:57] <balloons> I like the idea, but your right, there is a potential to get the same exact board twice in a row.. it's *possible * lol
[18:57] <xeranas> balloons: test wich was edited yes, but fails on hint test
[18:57] <balloons> xeranas, Letozaf_ has a merge to fix the hint test.. we'll get it merged very shortly :-)
[18:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, good! thanks
[18:59] <Letozaf_> balloons,  I will do a bzr update and commit just now
[19:00] <balloons> xeranas, do you have a g+ account btw?
[19:01] <xeranas> ok, I probably discard branch, because comparing those big list probably bad performing anyway
[19:01] <xeranas> balloons: yes
[19:03] <xeranas> https://plus.google.com/117048929850971174533/
[19:03] <xeranas> but lately not very active on g+
[19:06] <balloons> xeranas, thanks :-) I can refer to you more easily now :-)
[19:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, I think you left an extra line in there on your merge
[19:24] <balloons> in  tests/autopilot/sudoku_app/tests/test_sudoku.py
[19:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes I had started working on another test, so probably cancelling the part I added I left something bacl
[19:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, let me check
[19:26] <balloons> Letozaf_, it has the merge-source and tree lines in it
[19:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think I made a mistake when  I launched bzr update
[19:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, argh!
[19:27] <balloons> Letozaf_, :-( I'm sorry to cause you trouble
[19:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, no problem, just let me see if I can fix it
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, the test is working fine on my box without the last test I was working on, i will push it in the branch again, will this be ok ?
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, not sure I remember exactly all the lines I put it
[19:35] <Letozaf_> sorry put in
[19:36] <balloons> Letozaf_, commit and push ;-)
[19:36] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok lets see what happens
[19:38] <Letozaf_> balloons, pushed
[19:51] <Letozaf_> balloons_, :( I saw it failed again
[19:51] <balloons_> Letozaf_, bah, it still has that conflict
[19:52] <balloons_> the conflict was/is in tests/autopilot/sudoku_app/tests/test_sudoku.py
[19:52] <balloons_> what does bzr status say?
[19:52] <balloons_> the version I pulled down works.. it's odd
[19:53] <balloons_> fginther, bah, am I missing something here: https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/sudoku-app/hint_button_test/+merge/175112?
[19:54] <Letozaf_> balloons_, :( I have already pasted the other test in it :(
[19:55] <Letozaf_> balloons_, should have made a copy first
[19:55] <balloons_> Letozaf_, ohh.. I do see one remaining file that can be could
[19:55] <balloons_> there's a ubuntusdk.py.moved file
[19:55] <balloons_> look in the emulators folder
[19:55] <Letozaf_> balloons_, ubuntusdk.py.moved ? let me see
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons_, I do not see it in my emulators directory
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons_, not even in the branch
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons_, where do you find it ?
[19:57] <Letozaf_> balloons_, I mean how is it that I have not got it
[19:57] <balloons_> Letozaf_, lol
[19:57] <balloons_> Letozaf_, ahh.. it's a local file
[19:58] <balloons_> sorry I jumped the gun
[19:58] <Letozaf_> balloons_, fiew, lol
[19:59] <balloons_> Letozaf_, keep on whatever your doing, your branch looks fine, I don't know why it's not merging, but it should. I'll play with it
[19:59] <Letozaf_> balloons_, ok  thanks :-)
[20:15] <fginther> balloons_, there is a merge conflict (which you mentioned in the comments), but no new version of the proposal.
[20:16] <thomi> morning
[20:16] <fginther> balloons_, oops, looks like I'm behind
[20:16] <balloons_> fginther, yes it has conflicts, but the base branch has resolved it, so I'm confused why lp still thinks it's there
[20:17] <fginther> balloons_, hmm
[20:17] <balloons_> I guess it's a problem on that side and not autopilot perhaps.. because I see the conflict mentioned at the top
[20:17] <fginther> balloons_, yes, it's not ap specific, it's just a merge issue
[20:18] <balloons_> let's see if a resubmit fixes it
[20:18] <balloons_> and lp still sees a conflict, but it's just not there
[20:18] <balloons_> argh, I'll just submit it myself
[20:36] <Letozaf_> balloons_, :(
[20:37] <balloons_> Letozaf_, I got it, no worries :-)
[20:38] <Letozaf_> balloons_, :)
[21:20] <Noskcaj> balloons_, What still needs to happen with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive/Hackfest
[21:23] <balloons_> hey Noskcaj
[21:23] <balloons_> the page is pretty nicely done
[21:23] <balloons_> I was going to respond to everything, but I would recommend picking a specific time, despite the timezone issues
[21:23] <balloons_> if you make it 24 hours long, it will be hard to coordinate
[21:24] <Noskcaj> ok. Maybe i start it at 1100UTC with the hangout, then use the other as a wrap up?
[21:24] <balloons_> so you need a specific goal, which you have. you have tasks for people to do as well, also good.
[21:25] <balloons_> pick a time that you can commit say 1 hour too.. perhaps pick one that is in your morning, and then again in your evening to make it easier for folks to participate
[21:25] <Noskcaj> I've changed it to 1100UTC to 2200UTC, which still gives everyone plenty of time
[21:27] <balloons_> Noskcaj, are you able to be around that long?
[21:27] <Noskcaj> I'll be online 1100-1200 and 2000-2200
[21:27] <Noskcaj> I need sleep
[21:33] <balloons_> Noskcaj, :-) So I would suggest limiting to just those times
[21:42] <Noskcaj> oh?
[21:49] <Noskcaj> balloons_, I'd rather have it run all that time so more people get to attend. Howard would be online for a few more hours than me.
[21:50] <balloons_> Noskcaj, well that's my recommendation as if your not around they might be alone and won't know how to start
[21:50] <knome> balloons_, you're
[21:50] <Noskcaj> really knome?
[21:50] <balloons_> knome, ty
[21:50] <balloons_> Noskcaj, I have a nasty habit of your = you'rw
[21:50] <balloons_> *you're.. see I can't even type it
[21:51] <balloons_> too hard
[21:51] <knome> Noskcaj, just fixing his spelling :P
[21:51] <slickymaster> good night, eveybody
[21:51] <knome> night slickymaster
[21:51] <Noskcaj> balloons_, ok. I'll see if someone is willing to run the in-between parts, if not, i'll cut down the size
[21:51] <Noskcaj> night slickymaster
[21:51] <slickymaster> knome Noskcaj :)
[21:51] <knome> i would also concentrate on a shorter event where you can be around at all times
[21:52] <balloons_> Noskcaj, that'd be my recommendation
[21:53] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, about the Testdrive Hackfest on August, I noticed that one of the needs is related with translations. I'm a member of  the Ubuntu Portuguese Translators team so if you want I can work on that
[21:54] <Noskcaj> slickymaster, That would be great. Howard was sending an email to all the translators today because it's hard to do add translations to hackfests
[21:54] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, yes, I saw it
[21:55] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, so where do I start?
[21:55] <Noskcaj> slickymaster, translations.launchpad.net/testdrive
[21:57] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, :) that I know, I'm asking if it's supposed to be translated directly in Launchpad (Translations in Rosetta) or using Bazaar?
[21:58] <Noskcaj> launchpad
[21:58] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, I'll start on the Portuguese translation, asap
[21:59] <Noskcaj> Thanks
[21:59] <slickymaster> * :)


[06:33] <doko> man-di: eclipse build works for me
[07:56] <man-di> doko: on sid or gutsy?
[07:56] <doko> man-di: gutsy
[07:57] <man-di> I have the problems on sid, as I said
[07:59] <doko> hmm
[08:00] <man-di> perhaps its only on my system, but that would be really evil
[08:00] <man-di> I dont really know what can cause this
[08:01] <man-di> somehow it looks like aot-compiles tries to parse class files and fails
[08:04] <doko> checking ...
[08:46] <vil> man-di, what is the problem?
[08:47] <doko> man-di: /home/packages/eclipse/eclipse-3.2.2/debian/tmp-native/usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.apache.lucene_1.4.103.v20060601/lucene-1.4.3.jar
[08:47] <doko> did you patch this one?
[08:52] <man-di> doko: not that I know
[08:52] <man-di> vil: http://paste.debian.net/36944
[08:52] <man-di> vil: when building current eclipse with pkg-java svn on debian sid
[08:59] <doko> man-di: could you send gbenson or fitzsim this file and ask?
[09:03] <doko> man-di: seems to be the only one, so maybe exclude it on amd64?
[09:03] <doko>           if [ $(DEB_HOST_ARCH) = amd64 ] ; then \
[09:03] <doko>             case "$$jar" in \
[09:03] <doko>               *lucene*) continue;; \
[09:03] <doko>             esac; \
[09:03] <doko>           fi; \
[09:06] <man-di> how did you find this one causing the issue?
[09:16] <doko> diff -u /usr/share/pycentral/java-gcj-compat-dev/site-packages/aotcompile.py~ /usr/share/pycentral/java-gcj-compat-dev/site-packages/aotcompile.py
[09:16] <doko> --- /usr/share/pycentral/java-gcj-compat-dev/site-packages/aotcompile.py~       2007-08-25 19:38:03.000000000 +0200
[09:16] <doko> +++ /usr/share/pycentral/java-gcj-compat-dev/site-packages/aotcompile.py        2007-09-12 21:16:23.000000000 +0200
[09:16] <doko> @@ -198,6 +198,7 @@
[09:16] <doko>          need to parse every class file.  This is slow, and unnecessary
[09:16] <doko>          if the job is subsetted."""
[09:16] <doko>          names = {}
[09:16] <doko> +        print "->", self.path
[09:16] <doko>          for hash, bytes in self.classes.items():
[09:16] <doko>              name = classname(bytes)
[09:17] <doko>              if not names.has_key(name):
[09:17] <man-di> aaah, good to know
[09:22] <vil> man-di, so the problem occurs only on amd64?
[09:26] <vil> man-di, I don't understand it much, but classfile.py seems to use struct.unpack to parse the class files
[09:27] <vil> and that depends on the C types
[09:28] <vil> see classfile.py:196
[09:46] <doko> what would be needed to get maven2 into gutsy?
[09:50] <vil> man-di, furthermore struct.py comes in gutsy with python2.5-minimal while you paste shows python2.4
[10:57] <man-di> vil: debian uses python 2.4 as default for now
[10:58] <man-di> doko: just syncing it and its dependencies I guess
[10:58] <man-di> doko: but beware, its only for users so far, dont build packages with it yet
[10:58] <doko> ahh, ok, then better wait


[01:06] <mathomastech> Hey tonyyarusoo. I was editing my Ubuntu One SSO trying to change my username. Ended up deleting myself. When you get a chance can you reconfirm my Ubuntu MN membership?
[01:07] <mathomastech> And probably delete my old one if it's still there.
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> mathomastech: I approved the new one a couple hours ago, but deleting the old one would take a higher power.
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> I could remove it from the team, but not delete the account.


[10:37] <Zic> hi here, all my kubernetes-worker are showed as "failed" in juju status since this morning, but everything is fine in practice... I ran a "juju debug-log" and saw a lot of "too many open files" of this kind : http://paste.ubuntu.com/25324995/
[10:37] <Zic> so I tried to modify the file.fs-max sysctl value & limits.conf, but nothing change
[10:37] <Zic> do you have clues ? :(
[11:32] <Ting_> hi there, I am deploying a application (postgresql in this case) on maas, it gets stuck at waiting for machine. Tried with print out log with "juju debug-log", but got no respond from that, anyone have idea about why juju debug-log doesn't work? How could this be fixed?
[11:42] <rick_h> Ting_: hmm, try the deploy with --debug in the command "juju deploy postgresql --debug" and see if that has some info
[11:44] <Ting_> yes, i deployed it with --debug, it showed some info and said command finished at the end.
[11:46] <rick_h> Ting_: ok, is there a machine in juju status with a number?
[11:46] <rick_h> Ting_: if so, try to do "juju show machine X" and see if there's any output about why it couldn't get the machine
[11:47] <Ting_> ok, i'll try it
[11:49] <Ting_> it shows some infor like juju-status: pending, machine-status:allocating
[11:54] <Ting_> rick_h: from maas gui, i can see the machine is deploying which takes very long time than expected.
[11:56] <rick_h> Ting_: ah ok. Assumed there was an error. Go Maas go!
[12:13] <Ting_> rick_h: sure, thanks!
[17:08] <stormmore> o/ juju world
[17:32] <rick_h> reminder juju show in 30 woot woot
[17:32] <rick_h> awesome 2.3 early feature demo coming
[17:33] <rick_h> well, future feature (probably not 2.3)
[17:53] <rick_h> Juju Show linkages: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/n4gmxnhlgrhkpibqzdn3gf7c2qe for joining in the conversation (tvansteenburgh, hml, kwmonroe, arosales, bdx, and anyone else)
[17:53] <rick_h> and for watching check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUx6kYE60Mc
[18:05] <arosales> rick_h: thanks, I'll be in read only mode today
[18:05] <tvansteenburgh> i'm on TV!
[18:05] <tvansteenburgh> i'm famous!
[18:06] <tvansteenburgh> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2017-August/009294.html
[19:41] <sfeole> i'm putting together some updates to a charm I use.  I'm curious , I have a function that I only want to run once, however I need it to wait until a specific condition is met. so can I stack 2 decorators like this: @when('condition_met') \n @only_once  \n def do_this_action()
[20:04] <blizzow1> So I have 3 decent servers that I used maas to wipe and put a default installation of ubuntu on them. I'd like to test openstack or kubernetes using these three servers and was contemplating using juju to do it. I keep running into issues with conjure-up. All the pages I see about deploying openstack or kubernetes suggest starting with maas+conjure-up+juju to get things up and running. Do I need conjure-up?
[20:09] <stokachu> Depends, is the problem conjure-up or your maas setup
[20:15] <blizzow1> stokachu: I don't think my maas is busted? but who knows.
[20:15] <blizzow1> wtf, why do I need lxd and zfsutils to run juju?
[20:16] <blizzow1> Why in the hell do I use snap? What happened to using apt??
[20:17] <stokachu> Well that's where most applications are heading coming from us
[20:17] <blizzow1> argh. yet another f'ing packaging/installation system.
[20:18] <blizzow1> what was the matter with apt? who knoooows?
[20:18] <stokachu> And I don't know what problems you are having as you haven't provided any additional information
[20:19] <stokachu> There is also a #maas channel
[20:20] <blizzow1> well, I'm over using conjure-up+snap to do stuff because it's always failing. So I'm trying to install juju on it's own VM and add the maas cloud. Then I'll get started on testing whatever I want...I see this page which seems to be how to install juju... https://jujucharms.com/docs/2.2/reference-install.  Where do I go from that page?
[20:21] <stokachu> Fair enough
[20:24] <stokachu> if you get bored and actually want to debug your maas+conjure-up then let me know
[20:28] <blizzow1> I guess my question was whether or not I even need to use conjure-up got get juju running? I'd prefer not to use lxd containers in a VM to provision bare metal that can provision more VMs. can I run a juju controller without LXD and adding some bridging to a VM that's already bridging?
[20:29] <stokachu> you dont need conjure-up to get juju running
[20:29] <stokachu> if you have maas you can just use this https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/clouds-maas
[20:29] <stokachu> and juju deploy canonical-kubernetes
[20:30] <blizzow1> stokachu: thanks.
[20:35] <stokachu> blizzow1: you just want to make sure that maas is able to auto power on/off your nodes
[20:35] <stokachu> without you having to do anything
[20:36] <stokachu> blizzow1: also i usually create a VM on the maas server and register that as a node
[20:36] <stokachu> and do juju bootstrap --to vmhost.maas
[20:36] <stokachu> so you aren't using a whole machine for the bootstrap node
[20:39] <blizzow1> stokachu: maas is able to power up and power off these servers at will. I'm trying not to use a whole server to run maas or juju. I'm trying to use these servers to run openstack or kubernetes as a proof of concept, so my maas and juju servers are VMs on separate hypervisors.
[20:41] <blizzow1> So from my juju VM. I did an add-credential maas-cloud.  Then when I try an do a bootstrap, I get an error about failing because of constraints.
[20:42] <blizzow1> ERROR failed to bootstrap model: cannot start bootstrap instance: cannot run instances: cannot run instance: No available machine matches constraints: [('agent_name', ['cf1fbc63-9ad1-4556-8159-43a2f4f7aa32']), ('mem', ['3584']), ('name', ['maas01.mydomain.com'])] (resolved to "mem=3584.0 name=maas01.mydomain.com")
[22:34] <blizzow1> So if I already have a maas server running, how do I register that instead of bootstrapping another with juju?
[23:08] <thumper> blizzow1: so using maas with juju?
[23:08] <thumper> https://jujucharms.com/docs/2.2/clouds-maas


[00:49] <pleia2> trying to figure out if I have enough energy to come down tonight :)
[00:50] <jtatum> :)
[00:50]  * pleia2 has nothing nice to say about bind
[00:50] <broder> hmm...do i need to actually go and read that cve? i had been kind of ignoring it
[00:51] <pleia2> only if you allow public recursive requests
[00:51] <broder> ok, good
[00:51] <pleia2> we don't, but we allow it for some LANs we manage and they are windows PCs who have who-knows-what garbage on them, and there are attacks in the wild now too, so we got a few calls from customers who couldn't get to some sites because their dns was dead
[00:52] <broder> oof
[00:52] <pleia2> sugarcrm.com's dns failed for about an hour today to, may be a coincidence but :\
[00:53] <pleia2> s/to/too
[00:53] <pleia2> "I am done with these bind updates, let's upgrade sugar, aaarrrghhh!" <-- my day
[00:56] <bkerensa> pleia2: Do you know how to use SugarCRM's On-Demand?
[00:56] <bkerensa> I cant figure out how to access it with my pro account
[00:56] <pleia2> bkerensa: I know as little about SugarCRM as possible
[00:56] <bkerensa> =o
[00:56] <bkerensa> ok
[00:56] <bkerensa> pleia2: I'm going to a Debian Dinner tonight (Apparently they do them up here too)
[00:56] <pleia2> cool
[00:57] <bkerensa> John Goerzen is coming
[00:57] <bkerensa> :D
[00:58] <pleia2> don't know him, a DD?
[00:58] <pleia2> we have a couple DDs down here, but they don't come out much
[00:58] <bkerensa> Yeah... He has also wrote like 10 books.... but apparently he just cancelled last minute
[00:58] <bkerensa> yeah
[00:58] <nhaines> Bummer.
[00:58] <bkerensa> well I guess everyone who will be there tonight aside from me is a major old school DD or Ubuntu Dev
[00:59] <bkerensa> like vorlan will be there tonight and he is DD and Ubuntu Dev
[00:59] <pleia2> yeah, I'm familiar with vorlan
[00:59] <pleia2> (not sure if I've met met him though)
[01:00] <jtatum> steve langasek
[01:00] <jtatum> at every uds
[01:00] <pleia2> I have actually met him, but he's pretty outgoing
[01:01] <pleia2> see, I only meet non-shy people because I'm shy and it's impossible for two shy people to meet
[01:01] <jtatum> he was my idol
[01:01] <pleia2> once I sat next to an online friend at a scifi convention, and later we're on IRC and he's like "was that you?"
[01:01] <pleia2> it was awesome, we're such dorks
[01:02] <pleia2> I should learn how to say hi, but it's hard :)
[01:02] <jtatum> jledbetter is better at emulating extrovert than I
[01:03] <pleia2> you're both quite approachable, smiling is good
[01:04] <pleia2> it's dark already, I think I'll take muni to caltrain, which means leaving now
[01:05] <jtatum> thanks pleia2. oh! great, we get to see you tonight
[01:05] <jtatum> excellent
[01:06] <pleia2> wasn't going to because I have a million things to do, but last night was the same and I ate pizza and watched tv instead
[01:06] <pleia2> so I think this means I need to get out :)
[01:07] <bkerensa> jtatum: Well I would much rather be at home perfecting my skill at Asian Cuisine but I got to make the rounds in the FOSS community plus the Debian guys want to utilize some of my venues and connections.... I also think it would be good to do Ubuntu Hours on the same day that way more people can get together
[01:08] <jtatum> sure
[01:11] <bkerensa> Plus it is epic cold out tonight :P and a hour trip there and back :P
[01:11] <bkerensa> 39 degrees right now
[01:11] <bkerensa> :(
[01:31] <jyo> oh, I'm coming tonight, btw.
[01:46] <pleia2> train!
[01:53] <pleia2> power outlet!
[01:53] <pleia2> :)
[01:53] <akk> \o/
[02:06] <pleia2> finally got to october team report https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/11/October
[03:11] <jtatum> hey from the Mountain View Ubuntu hour!
[03:12]  * pleia2 waves from Mt View Ubuntu Hour too
[03:21] <MarkDude> I was just out that way yesterday
[03:33] <jtatum> sorry we missed you, MarkDude
[03:36] <MarkDude> Me too
[03:36] <MarkDude> still super tired
[03:53]  * akk waves from Mountain View
[04:05] <jtatum> whelp
[04:05] <jtatum> for anyone who couldn't make it tonight
[04:05] <jtatum> mark your calendars :)
[06:01] <bkerensa> pleia2: Looks like a West Coast DebConf might be in the works :D
[06:01] <jyo> Hooray for yet another successful Mt. View Ubuntu Hour!
[06:01] <bkerensa> jyo: +1
[06:02] <jyo> Well, successful as in the usual suspects.
[06:02] <akk> and we had fun!
[06:18] <greg-g> jyo: awesome! I need to stay in MV longer one night to hit it up. I'm always kind of anxious to get back on the train to SF
[06:23] <bkerensa> gnight
[06:24] <nhaines> bkerensa: good night.
[07:22] <pleia2> bkerensa: that would be cool but I won't hold my breath (it took forever to get a debconf in the states even once!)
[07:25] <bkerensa> pleia2: Yeah... Would you come?
[07:25] <pleia2> bkerensa: I would like to, but it would depend on work
[07:25] <bkerensa> nhaines: Yeah I need to go to bed :( got a long day tomorrow of pitching a proposal for a Ubuntu/Debian Bug Squash the first week of December :P
[07:26] <bkerensa> gnight all
[07:26] <pleia2> night
[07:26] <pleia2> greg-g: on any night I'm down at the mt view ubuntu hour we could give you a ride home (tonight we had dinner out too, but usually we head right back up around 9PM)
[07:27] <pleia2> jyo lives in the city too, so I will volunteer him to give rides too ;)
[07:27] <pleia2> caltrain after rush hour takes foreeeever :\
[08:00] <MarkDude> cant get anymore last minute than that talk I just put in
[16:31] <greg-g> pleia2: yeah, post rush hour caltrain is about worthless, thanks for the offers!
[16:48] <BotenAnna> metrolink post rush hour doesn't exist lol
[20:04] <MarkDude> dragon, ping
[20:04] <MarkDude> http://events.hackerdojo.com/confirm/1155026-fedora-16-release-party-installfest-and-bbq
[20:05] <MarkDude> Yes it may be a Fedora event- ALL are welcome. We will also have some Ubuntu case badges, as well as some copies of Jono's Art of Community book
[20:06] <MarkDude> Grand prize is a Beefy Miracle shirt, if the winner does not want that- we will get them an Ubuntu themed shirt- all courtesy of Daddy Shadowman
[20:06] <MarkDude> akk, I hope you can make it
[20:06] <akk> MarkDude: I think I can, and definitely want to.
[20:06] <jyo> MarkDude: Excited about the Astros joining the AL West? :P
[20:06] <MarkDude> Veggie and Meat dogs
[20:07] <MarkDude> akk if they wear their really old stripey uniforms
[20:07] <MarkDude> Those crappy rainbow polyester ones
[20:08] <jyo> So excited for baseball in 2013! Interleague game everyday! Mariners-Astros games all the time!
[20:09] <jyo> greg-g: Yeah, I usually drive to the Mt. View Ubuntu Hour on my way back. Totally happy to give anyone a ride back to the city.
[20:09] <greg-g> jyo: sweet! :)
[20:11] <philipballew_> I need to hit up the mountain view hour when I am in norcal soon. Its only a couple hours from where I live there
[20:14] <MarkDude> philipballew, come to a Dark Side party, we have food and desert- even prizes, and NO we are not trying to convert you
[20:18] <philipballew_> MarkDude, when is it?
[20:18] <akk> Converting someone to try another distro (not necessarily switch) might be a good thing.
[20:19] <akk> Seeing how other distros do things well can help improve one's own distro.
[20:19] <nhaines> I know all other distros are bad.  That's why I never use or try them.
[20:19]  * akk hides her laptop so no one will see it's currently all debian derivatives ... really must do something about that
[20:19] <philipballew_> akk, I have here on my laptop is debian and ubuntu. though they are somewhat the same.
[20:20] <akk> philipballew_: That's what I have right now. Want to put fedora on it, just have to set aside some time in case it stomps my boot sector and I have to fix it.
[20:20] <MarkDude> nhaines, +1
[20:20]  * philipballew_ doesnt let people know his desktop is currently open suse.
[20:20] <MarkDude> Dec 4th 12-3
[20:20] <akk> I had arch on the other laptop, but it kinda bitrotted.
[20:21] <MarkDude> Shhh, I am using Ubuntu right now
[20:21] <MarkDude> philipballew, at the Hacker Dojo- in Mountain view
[20:21] <philipballew_> when I was at scale a year back the suse booth would not give me a cd untill i took my ubuntu laynard off
[20:21]  * MarkDude wants all distros to get along
[20:21] <nhaines> akk: From the sounds of it, Arch combines all the power and configurability of Gentoo with all the ease of use and reliability of Gentoo.
[20:21] <akk> jeez, philipballew_, that's rude
[20:21] <MarkDude> philipballew, they would not do that if Zonker was still around
[20:22] <MarkDude> Joe is a good guy
[20:22] <philipballew_> MarkDude, I'll look at my schedule. as I live in both nor cal and socal
[20:22] <MarkDude> Good deal- not a bad commute
[20:22]  * philipballew_ still thinks norcal is better
[20:23] <akk> heh, nhaines. Actually it combines *some of* the configurability of gentoo, the lightweightness of, I dunno, in-between-debian-and-puppy, and the ease of use of debian.
[20:23] <philipballew_> is arch based off anything?
[20:23] <nhaines> I got the impression Arch installs tended to bitrot fairly quickly.
[20:23] <nhaines> philipballew_: Ubuntu nerdrage.
[20:23] <akk> nhaines: Plus: it's super easy to contribute packages, unlike more mainstream distros (anyone can put a package in AUR).
[20:23] <philipballew_> i thought i herd debian at one point. but might be wrong
[20:24] <akk> nhaines: I wish ubuntu had something like that ... they keep talking about it but the cats can't agree on how to do it.
[20:24] <philipballew_> and it is a rolling distro
[20:24] <nhaines> akk: I think PPAs are a good solution for the moment.
[20:25] <akk> nhaines: Ugh, ppas mean you have to go googling for a ppa, then pick one of the three you find and hope that it's the one that's actually kept up to date
[20:25] <akk> which probably won't be the same ppa anyone else you meet is using
[20:26] <nhaines> Is that different than random users adding arbitrarily-named packages?
[20:26] <akk> People show up on gimp saying "I got 2.7 from [long ppa url] and everybody's like "Who's that? no idea how recent it might be"
[20:26] <akk> nhaines: If there's a central repository, then everybody knows where the package is and everybody's getting the same version.
[20:26] <philipballew_> software people put out several ppa's one for the newest version and one for daily updates. you have to read the fine print to make sure you got the right one
[20:26] <akk> Plus you don't end up with 27 ppas that you have to apt-get update from every time, some of which might start serving you package versions you didn't ask for.
[20:27] <nhaines> akk: that part isn't fun.
[20:27] <philipballew_> exactly.
[20:27]  * philipballew_ is off to work.
[20:27] <philipballew_> time to fix peoples computers for 8 dollars an hour
[20:28]  * nhaines wouldn't do that for less than $20
[20:28] <nhaines> Actually, my home consulting rate is $80/hour.
[20:28] <philipballew_> its a school job so i get to pick my own hours. but I dont plan to be here for long
[20:28] <nhaines> Let anyone looking for consultants take note!