[01:05] <ice9> I installed Cinnamon on Ubuntu 13.10 but it shows only the desktop icons without any panels


[03:28] <user|88466> do-release-upgrade keeps telling me  "No new release found"
[03:29] <user|88466> This is in kubuntu 20.10.I started with the apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade , no new upgrade then pkexec do-release-upgradd also said "no new release'
[03:30] <user|88466> apologies with the crappy description but PasteBin is acting out
[03:32] <ri5h46h> hello
[03:34] <Dragnslcr> user|88466- you might need to do do-release-upgrade -d
[03:36] <user|88466> Thank you it seems to do the trick. They probably should update the instruction in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HirsuteUpgrades/Kubuntu
[04:02] <IrcsomeBot1> Faez was added by: Faez
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/MNtM7JSu/file_43508.jpg 26 second boot time on HDD. Impressive
[05:27] <Maik> Dragnslcr https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/04/why-you-cant-upgrade-to-ubuntu-21-04-for-now
[05:28] <Maik> so upgrading is not advisable
 did a backup and clean install when it released
 and I reinstalled with BTRFS
[06:31] <user|82973> I have installed Kubuntu yesterday with Windows 7 for a dual boot on my computer. It is able to boot to Kubuntu, but not to windows. The dual boot menu shows, but when I select Windows 7, it gives me the following error messages: (1) can't find command 'parttool' (2) invalid EFI file path. Any idea on how to fix this problem to be able to boot to W
[06:31] <user|82973> indows 7? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 @user|82973, you may be able to boot to windows 7 using your UEFI boot menu
[06:40] <user|82973> you direct me to any instructions on how to do that? I don't have any experience with Kubuntu. Thanks.
[06:41] <user|82973> * Can you ...
[06:41] <alkisg> user|82973: can you tell us the output of this command?             ( lsblk --fs; ls -ld /sys/firmware/efi ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[06:46] <user|82973> https://pastebin.pl/view/c7884a63
[06:46] <user|82973> Above is the copy of the output of the command.
[06:47] <user|82973> Sorry for taking so long, had to figure out how to do that. :)
[06:47] <alkisg> user|82973: no worries, you just needed to paste that line in a terminal,
[06:48] <alkisg> So, I think that your windows was in bios mode, and you installed ubuntu in uefi mode
[06:48] <alkisg> Dual booting needs the same mode in both OSes
[06:48] <alkisg> To verify that, we need to look into your sda5 partition contents
[06:48] <alkisg> If windows isn't there, it wasn't an uefi installation
[06:48] <alkisg> To do that: sudo mount /dev/sda5 /mnt; ls -lR /mnt | nc termbin.com 9999
[06:52] <alkisg> That "| nc termbin.com 9999" automatically puts the output of a command to termbin.com, and you're supposed to send us the URL it shows
[06:53] <alkisg> You just need to paste the command I sent into a terminal, you don't need to do anything more
[06:53] <user|82973> https://pastebin.pl/view/7f001062
[06:53] <alkisg> OK, I was right. There's no Microsoft folder there
[06:53] <alkisg> Your Windows is installed in BIOS mode, while your Ubuntu is installed in UEFI mode
[06:54] <alkisg> What you did wrong was that when you pressed e.g. F12 boot from CDROM, you selected "UEFI CDROM" instead of plain "CDROM"
[06:54] <user|82973> So how can I correct this?
[06:54] <alkisg> One way would be to reinstall Ubuntu in BIOS mode, another way involved removing grub-efi and installing grub-pc
[06:54] <alkisg> *involves
[06:54] <user|82973> Actually, it was installed from a flash drive
[06:54] <alkisg> OK, then you shouldn't have selected "UEFI: flash drive" but "Flash drive"
[06:55] <user|82973> How do reinstall Ubuntu in BIOS mode
[06:56] <alkisg> I would be hard to write the exact instructions to replace grub-efi with grub-pc, but if you don't mind sharing your screen for a minute, I could help you with that
[06:56] <user|82973> OK. I don't mind.
[06:56] <alkisg> OK; run: sudo apt install --yes x11vnc; x11vnc -connect alkisg.ltsp.org
[06:56] <user|82973> OK.
[06:57] <alkisg> This shares your screen with me, like anydesk/teamviewer
[06:57] <user|82973> Sounds good.
[06:59] <alkisg> user|82973: I lost connectivity.. .can you run that command again?
[07:09] <alkisg> user|82973: here?
[07:09] <user|82973> Yes.
[07:09] <alkisg> You still had ubiquity installed, which is the ubuntu installer, which means that your installation wasn't finished properly
[07:09] <alkisg> You also have a "flexnet" in your disk where grub is supposed to go,
[07:09] <alkisg> so anyway I think it will be ok now, you need to do these:
[07:10] <alkisg> 1) Reboot. It might fail to boot. In this case, press F12 to get the boot manager, and select "YOUR DISK", not "UEFI: YOUR DISK" and not "Ubuntu"
[07:10] <alkisg> This will boot your kubuntu in bios mode
[07:10] <alkisg> 2) THEN, come again at irc, we need to run `update-grub` so that it picks up windows 7
[07:10] <alkisg> Then you're ready
[07:10] <user|82973> OK. That should take care of it?
[07:10] <alkisg> Yes
 @user|82973, also after booting up the live usb you can verify the boot mode with … `ls /sys/firmware/efi/efivars`
[07:11] <user|82973> Wow. That's great. I really appreciate your help.
[07:11] <alkisg> You're welcome
[07:11] <alkisg> ri5h46h, his disk is MBR, and he's booted into uefi
[07:11] <alkisg> The efivars are there
[07:11] <alkisg> Windows C: has bootmgr, and nothing about microsoft in the newly created efi partition
 Hello guys can i load plasma from tty1
 @alkisg, oh
[11:04] <deltaplnok> wtf is this?
 @deltaplnok, ?
[12:42] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:43]  * alkisg waves
[12:45] <BluesKaj> o/
[13:13] <n0yd> Hi, anyone have suggestions for a dock under wayland? I found most of them are broken. I'd like to try lavalauncher as it was built with wayland in mkind from the start, but there seems to be no packages for it except for FBSD and some distro ive  never heard of. And compiling isnt going easy
[13:14] <n0yd> I may just use the panel and modify with widgets
[13:16] <audrey> n0yd: I'm using the panel with icon-only taskbar (favorites pinned) and a few widgets. Slightly less customizable, but I've not had good experience with third-party docks either.
[13:16] <audrey> LatteDock is incredibly memory-hungry and Plank would not work properly (widgets would refuse to load).
[13:17] <audrey> I'd be interested to know too if any other good alternatives are out there, but the default KDE panel, set up as a dock, works well for me.
[13:18] <n0yd> ya that sounds how i want my bottom panel to be setup, icon only
[13:18] <n0yd> honestly, it works the best
[13:19] <audrey> Only thing I miss are extras like zoomed icons when scrolling over them
[13:19] <audrey> I can live with that, though, especially since everything else is so well configured
[13:19] <n0yd> Latteedock under plasma and wayland is broke as hell, plank doesnt even load (unless i need a new version outside repos,cause it says its x11 only)
[13:19] <n0yd> excactly
[13:20] <audrey> My only gripe, visually speaking, is that Firefox menus still do not populate in GlobalMenu. So I use Falkon instead for the better KDE integration.
[13:20] <BluesKaj> quicklaunch in the panel is simple and handy
[13:20] <n0yd> Pfft. I got so sick of firefox under wayland, even with the fixes, i went back to chromium
[13:21] <audrey> n0yd: Depending on your system's memory capacity, third-party docks can also cause quite a bit of performance burden you would not experience with default plasma dock setup.
[13:21] <n0yd> There is a bunch of about:config switches and such to fix ff under wayland, but i still dont like how it works
[13:21] <audrey> LatteDock was eating up something like 400MB and that is not worth it for me, even on a comparatively powerful computer.
[13:22] <n0yd> oh yes, i am very familiar with the memory hungry docks and such,  been messing with them since Beryl, remember beryl? lol
[13:22] <audrey> Heh. I remember trying to get CairoDock to work back in 10.04 LTS and the crashes every time you logged out and in.
[13:22] <n0yd> yup
[13:23] <BluesKaj> I've been advised by some devs that wayland is still troublesome on kde/plasma...haven't tried it myself yet
[13:23] <n0yd> it was og glx-dock
[13:23] <n0yd> BluesKaj: honestly, there can be some troubles, but under 21.04 its quite good
[13:23] <n0yd> I could use daily
[13:23] <audrey> I need to test if the third party docks play better with plasma on openSUSE and slackware-current. It may just be a Kubuntu issue.
[13:24] <audrey> Though I couldn't say how without doing a deeper dive.
[13:24] <n0yd> The biggest issue is settings app not going cleanly after applying certain stuff like themes and such. It will just crash itself, and then you restart the app and its fine
[13:24] <n0yd> which isnt a big deal to me
[13:25] <audrey> Oh yes, I've had that trouble with themes too. You sometimes have to go in and manually edit individual appearance settings even after changing a theme.
[13:25] <audrey> I *think* that is a KDE-specific issue though as this was also happening in Slackware.
[13:26] <audrey> Minor stuff. Still though, I have to say I love KDE 5. I got back into it after a 6-7 year absence where I was using only MATE.
[13:26] <n0yd> Yeah. I have been configuring themes for like 2hrs this morning. And it likes to crash the settings app when cl,icking apply, as it cant restart/apply cleanly,. Not a big deal, just reopen it, and the settings will,l be applied and all is good
[13:26] <audrey> KDE is wildly improved. :)
[13:27] <n0yd> Ya ive loved kde/plasma 5 since its release a couple years ago
[13:28] <n0yd> i've messed with plenty of de/wm combos over the years, from i3 all the eay to gnome and kde. But i come back to kde as its the easiest to use for myself when I am working on lots of diffwerent evenvironments and systems. Mac, Win7-10, etc
[13:30] <n0yd> Wayland has gotten considerably better in the last 6-12 months imho. Like i said, running 21.04 with wayland/plasma, and all is well for the most part
[13:31] <audrey> Same. Though I use MATE on my older machines mostly for nostalgia purposes, and because KDE can still be a bit of a strain on 10 year old hardware.
[13:31] <n0yd> I will get on my knees and thank the gods, whomever they are, when X finally goes away
[13:31] <audrey> For anything new, though, KDE is a great choice, and Kubuntu LTS releases are pretty reasonable.
[13:31] <n0yd> Yes, mate is great on older machines
[13:31] <audrey> I was shocked to learn that KDE RAM usage is now within spitting distance of XFCE.
[13:32] <n0yd> This machine is nothing special though and kde runs great. Ryzen3, 8GB of ram.
[13:32] <audrey> Back in the day, KDE was where GNOME3 is today in regards to «bloat».
[13:32] <n0yd> yup
[13:32] <audrey> But they and MATE have wildly improved, while XFCE has kind of stagnated in the performance department.
[13:33] <n0yd> yes, xfce has not changed much in years. I remember when it got to how it looks now from the OG xfce 1.x and it was awesome. But that wore off long ago
[13:34] <n0yd> Reminds me of when gnome was on 2.x for sooo long
[13:35] <n0yd> I find gnome way too simplistic of a ui that it just feels dumb to me now
[13:36] <audrey> MATE still *looks* the same but has undergone a lot of performance improvements under the hood.
[13:36] <n0yd> And plasma is coming down from that feeling off WAY too many options and settings for everythuing, to a happy medium
[13:36] <audrey> I think the GNOME2-style workflows are pretty much out of fashion these days, though.
[13:36] <n0yd> Yes, but Mate is fine looking that way. imho
[13:37] <n0yd> Its use case on older machines is great
[13:38] <n0yd> Whats a good pastebin script nowadays? I dont care what service, as long as its decent
[14:33] <BluesKaj> termbin perhaps
[18:30] <Roey> hi
[18:30] <Roey> I am experiencing an issue in upgrading my laptop (it's on Disco)
[18:34] <Roey> I am experiencing an issue in upgrading my laptop (it's on Disco).  When I do apt-get update, I get this error: https://pastebin.com/7CZN0WM5
 Disco was not an LTS release and neither is 21.04.  Upgrades are only supported "sequentially" for non-LTS release (i.e. 19.04 to 19.10) .  However you can upgrade from an LTS to the next LTS.
 I recommend installing 21.04 as sequentially upgrading  to 21.04 would be painfully slow even if it did work.
 @DarinMiller, It will work but the time required would be way more then you would need if you would doa fresh install. … Only thing is that upgrading can cause weird errors to occur. Especially when their is a mayor ABI/ API change in the system (looking at every Gnome release since 3.00 now).
[19:37] <audrey> Been experiencing issues with baseline RAM usage gradually increasing throughout a session in 20.04 LTS. What's strange about this is I can't identify any obvious memory leaks, and the memory usage creeps up very slowly. I am not running any unusual background services (that don't come on a clean install).
[19:37] <audrey> I'm not sure if this is a peculiarity with how the system calculates RAM usage, or whether there actually is a slow leak somewhere.
[19:41] <alkisg> audrey: run `free`, check the "used" column, (1) when the system has booted, or (2) a day later...
[19:48] <IrcsomeBot1> tsteven286 was added by: tsteven286
[23:12] <tomreyn> user|46957: ever since your ip address changed, you keep on reconnecting
[23:16] <tomreyn> user|46957: actually no, there was no ip address change. you just keep reconnecting since you first joined ~ 8 hours ago.


[05:13] <elopio> pitti: I'm not sure how to send a pull request to the autopkgtest debian branch, so I attached a patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/autopkgtest/+bug/1488358/comments/5
[05:14] <pitti> elopio: just saw, thanks! looks good
[05:14] <elopio> cool :)
[05:16] <pitti> elopio: I'd just rename it --timeout-ssh, just in case we ever add others
[05:16] <elopio> pitti: makes sense. Want me to update the patch?
[05:16] <pitti> elopio: nah, I think I'll be able to do that :)
[05:17] <elopio> pitti: even better :)
[05:17] <elopio> good night then.
[05:17] <elopio> thanks pitti!
[05:17] <pitti> elopio: sleep well! adjusting/testing/committing now
[07:51] <zyga> good morning
[07:52] <imuguruza> good morning zyga!
[07:55] <zyga> I will be working on changing how environmet is handled in snapcraft
[07:55] <zyga> I'll post my patches after breafkast, I made it work yesterday but I need to clean it up and run some tests
[10:57]  * ogra_ returns from dentist
[12:51] <Chipaca> lunch break \o/
[14:15] <rickspencer3> ogra_, lool for some reason you guys seem like you could advice
[14:16] <rickspencer3> is there some way I could craft a script or command for my desktop that would allow me to see the journctl output for a snap?
[14:16] <rickspencer3> I'm thinking that it would be nice if I could do snappy-remote install and then in some way script getting the output over ssh
[14:17] <ogra_> i think that only works if your snap uses a systemd unit
[14:17] <ogra_> you can indeed just grep for your snap name in syslog
[14:17] <ogra_> not sure if thats sufficient
[14:18] <rickspencer3> ogra_, well, I guess the idea is, I would like it to be automated from the host development desktop to the board
[14:18] <rickspencer3> sorry, that didn't make much sense
[14:20] <ogra_> well, i dont think you can read syslog or run journalctl as normal user
[14:20] <ogra_> which makes using ssh a bit tricky
[14:20] <rickspencer3> ogra_, currently I ssh into the board, and then run sudo journalctl --unit
[14:20] <ogra_> (in an automated way)
[14:20] <ogra_> yes
[14:21] <ogra_> not sure if that works without password request so that you can script it
[14:21] <rickspencer3> I'd like to make it easier for developers to access their println statements from their desktops
[14:22]  * ogra_ wishes we had stayed with upstart ... there you could just cat the log from your specific upstart job
[14:22] <zyga> ogra_: well, you can still redirect stdout from a systemd unit to a file, right?
[14:22] <zyga> ogra_: it's just that it goes to journal normally
[14:23] <ogra_> yeah
[14:26] <ogra_> argh ! ... so i finally have a proper resize script using parted ... and am trying it for the first time ...
[14:27] <ogra_> Error: the resize command has been removed inpparted 3.0
[14:27] <ogra_> *in parted
[14:27]  * ogra_ curses loudly
[14:27] <ogra_> so remove->re-add is mandatory ... how sad
[14:31] <Chipaca> ogra_: sfdisk | sed | sfdisk ftw
[14:32] <ogra_> Chipaca, no sfdisk for me ...
[14:32] <ogra_> unless someone takes over ricmm's meeting schedule so he can produce the patch :P
[14:33] <Chipaca> i probably still have a 3.5" floppy with PM2.EXE
[14:33] <Chipaca> or was that PM8
[14:33] <ogra_> lol
[14:34]  * ogra_ adds "mknod /dev/floppy" to his script
[15:43] <sergiusens> elopio: easy peasy https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/split-up-collect/+merge/269519
[19:51] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ping
[19:52] <sergiusens> kyrofa: pong
[19:54] <kyrofa> sergiusens, can you explain the thought process behind SNAPPY_GLOBAL_ROOT ? I was hoping I could just change the location where things were installed, but it also changes where the hooks are looked for, etc.
[19:54] <sergiusens> kyrofa: it's only useful for provisioning, as in 'chroot', it changes '/'
[20:12] <kyrofa> sergiusens, alright, thanks :) . Just wanted to understand the purpose there
[20:16] <sergiusens> kyrofa: it's for u-d-f mostly
[20:16] <kyrofa> sergiusens, makes sense
[20:30] <sergiusens> :-)
[20:30] <sergiusens> elopio: Chipaca can I get your initial comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/less-source/+merge/269547
[20:31] <elopio> sergiusens: initial comment is that it looks great.
[20:31] <elopio> I'll probably review it tomorrow.
[20:35] <sergiusens> elopio: great; I will probably be adding tests to each of the source classes in a bit; just got through this major shift


[01:08] <keithzg[m]> Oof, removing snapd leaves snap mounts lying around? That's ugly.
[01:10] <keithzg[m]> ...and apt just hangs when trying to reinstall snapd and apparmor briefly so I can remove those snaps. Lovely. I find myself being radicalized against snaps even more :P
[01:13] <user|27> alkisg are you there?
[02:23] <izzirynux> Test
[06:06] <alkisg> user|27: these aren't photos of your cables and connectors... and did you try to swap the cables?
[06:07] <user|27> alkisg yes
[06:07] <alkisg> user|27: can you mention the model of your monitor?
[06:10] <user|27> alkisg YIHAI model 24L31
[06:11] <alkisg> user|27: is that the "1024x768" one? And, is it this one? https://yihai2013.en.made-in-china.com/product/GKVxujgYVakQ/China-Yihai-LED-TV-42-Smart-TV-with-WiFi-and-USB.html
[06:12] <user|27> alkisg yes
[06:12] <alkisg> OK, run these commands and tell us the output:
[06:12] <alkisg> sudo -i
[06:12] <alkisg> cd /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0; echo [[:upper:]]*
[06:14] <user|27> alkisg DP-1 HDMI-A-1 VGA-1
[06:15] <alkisg> user|27: OK now write: sudo nano /etc/default/grub
[06:15] <alkisg> Do you see this line there? Is it exactly like this?   GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[06:17] <alkisg> Actually let me ask about another idea first; if you graphics adapter has an HDMI output, and your TV has an HDMI input, do you that one instead as it'll also be able to transfer sound; and it might solve the problem without any configuration changes
[06:18] <user|27> alkisg among other line i do se that exact line
[06:18] <alkisg> OK, do you have HDMI cable? Can you use that one for the TV instead?
[06:19] <user|27> alkisg i don't have a HDMI port in my pc
[06:19] <alkisg> OK. Change that line to: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash drm.edid_firmware=VGA-1:edid/1920x1080.bin"
[06:19] <user|27> and i dont own a HDMI cable
[06:19] <alkisg> Then Ctrl+O to save, Ctrl+X to exit, and then this: sudo update-grub
[06:20] <alkisg> Then reboot and see if it works
[06:49] <user|27> alkisg thanks, I have tried but didn't happened. Thanks for all your help.
[06:59] <alkisg> user|27, what's the output of this command now?
[06:59] <alkisg> ( cat /proc/cmdline; xrandr ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[11:44] <user|6> Hello all. screen sharing in zoom does not work. Is there a link how to set this up? Graphics Platform x11
[12:54] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:05] <alkisg> user|6: zoom.deb or something else, like snap?
 A9WO
 A6WO


[03:04] <hallyn> tjaalton: just tested debian sid xserver-xorg-video-qxl in precise guest, worked fine for me.
[03:05] <hallyn> tjaalton: i can't say whether it fixes the standing bugs i pointed to, but quick test didn't show up any new bugs for me
[04:11] <tjaalton> hallyn: nice to hear, thanks
[08:01] <jamespage> Daviey: around? wanted to check something euca related with you for precise?
[08:11] <Daviey> jamespage: hola
[08:13] <jamespage> Daviey: there are a number of packages which won't install anymore due to euca being removed from precise
[08:14] <jamespage> Daviey: python-image-store-proxy being one of them - should I go ahead and request they are dropped as well?
[08:21] <Daviey> jamespage: yes please
[08:22] <jamespage> Daviey, ack
[08:22] <Daviey> jamespage: utlemming was removing the UEC branding i understood.
[08:22] <Daviey> jamespage: We want to be as close to upstream Euca as we can.
[08:30] <lynxman> morning o/
[08:38] <huats> morning
[09:24] <brontosaurusrex> hi, how would i go updating karmic server to 10.04 or something?
[10:21] <rbasak> Daviey: I've filed bug 968124. What's the right way for it to be tracked appropriately? Milestone for 12.04? Or subscribe someone appropriate? Or a tag? Or something else?
[10:22] <jamespage> rbasak, ah - I think I just hit that - bah
[10:22] <rbasak> jamespage: there's a workaround. I'll post in the bug
[10:23] <jamespage> rbasak, ta - I'll target that for you as well if that helps
[10:23] <jamespage> is this for beta-2?
[10:23] <rbasak> beta-2 is today, isn't it?
[10:23] <rbasak> I was wondering what the appropriate mechanism for targeting is really
[10:23] <jamespage> rbasak, not beta-2 then
[10:23] <jamespage> :-)
[10:23] <jamespage> rbasak, I normally nomiate for release and target to a milestone
[10:24] <jamespage> rbasak, I think you can nominate but it won't be automatically accepted
[10:24] <rbasak> jamespage: does that make it show up in http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html? What does that report filter on?
[10:25] <Daviey> rbasak: it's fixed in trunk
[10:25] <Daviey> rbasak: roaksoax will be uploading a fix today, so it's in the archive for beta-2 release time
[10:25] <jamespage> rbasak, ah - subscribe ubuntu-server-release-tracking
[10:25] <rbasak> Daviey: ah cool, thanks
[10:26] <Daviey> i literally just tested his package :)
[10:27] <rbasak> Daviey: I literally just reproduced on amd64 :)
[10:27] <Daviey> rbasak: from the PPA?
[10:27] <rbasak> Daviey: no from the archive
[10:27] <Daviey> well then.
[10:27] <Daviey> :)
[11:10] <PedroGomes> Hi, I have dozens of machines on my lab, all equal among themselves. When I try to install the ubuntu 12.04 some machines, but not all report an error when mounting the ram disck
[11:11] <PedroGomes> there is a kernel panic because it can't find the /dev/rd/0 partition
[11:11] <PedroGomes> but If I install the stable version with the same pxe file
[11:11] <PedroGomes> it works
[11:11] <PedroGomes> any idea?
[11:27] <andygraybeal> hold up, so pgadmin isn't a web interface?
[11:27] <andygraybeal> *pgadmin3 ? it's asking for gtk.
[11:27] <andygraybeal> grrrrr!
[11:31] <andygraybeal> hmm i guess i can install it on my workstation.. and then connect to the server.. doh
[11:35] <zul> beta is out yet?
[11:42] <dork> its been out for weeks
[12:34] <piquadrat> Hi! Is there a packed version of solr 3.x available  somewhere? 1.4 from the repos is quite ancient
[12:51] <zul> good morning
[12:56] <jamespage> piquadrat, not in either the debian or ubuntu archives at the moment
[12:56] <jamespage> sorry - on my list for next release...
[12:57] <jamespage> (your are not the first to ask :-))
[12:57] <piquadrat> jamespage: it's simple enough to set it up manually, so no worries :)
[12:57] <jamespage> 1.4 is not quite that ancient - its only one major release behind
[12:57] <jamespage> solr skipped 2.x
[13:04] <piquadrat> yeah, but Solr 3 has all these shiny new things like spatial support :)
[13:23] <koolhead11> anyone around!! :P
[14:30] <Amoug> What is the use of nosuid mount option if one is already mounting with noexec ? From a security perspective
[14:37] <xranby> Amoug: there do pop up bugs that enable execution of binarys on noexec filesystems
[14:37] <xranby> like the  /lib/ld*.so /mnt/binary  trick
[14:37] <xranby> that plauged some kernels
[14:37] <xranby> nosuid of course makes sure the suid bit are not set
[14:39] <Amoug> xranby, so it is more of a defense in depth
[14:40] <Amoug> because modern kernels fixed that trick
[14:40] <xranby> Amoug: all i am saying, it looks hard to execute a binary and misuse the suid bit,  people belived it to be impossible before that trick got discovered
[14:40] <xranby> net tricks can get discovered
[14:41] <xranby> if you are security paranoid,, be paranoid :)
[14:41] <xranby> and try secure your system before someone finds out how to get you
[14:41] <xranby> its a cat and mouse race after all
[14:42] <Amoug> xranby, I am more of a pentester than a sysadmin... But you have to learn how to secure, in order to know how to find flaws
[14:43] <Amoug> and vice versa :)
[15:25] <stgraber> hallyn: ping
[15:25] <hallyn> stgraber: hey
[15:26] <stgraber> hallyn: lxc-execute is mounting the mqueue filesystem on /dev/mqueue/ showing a failure with arkose (though still working fine afterwards)
[15:26] <hallyn> stgraber: yes, lxc-init always does that.
[15:26] <stgraber> hallyn: so I was wondering if mqueue is considered safe and if so if we should add a "mount fstype=mqueue," to the profile
[15:26] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubuntu-archive-tools$ sudo arkose -h
[15:26] <stgraber> lxc-init: failed to mount /dev/mqueue : Permission denied
[15:26] <stgraber> stgraber@arkose-tmpTkI6d7:~/data/code/ubuntu-archive-tools$
[15:27] <stgraber> at least lxc-init is kind enough to ignore the failure and continue so that didn't break arkose ;)
[15:28] <hallyn> stgraber: yeah, it didn't used to ignore that :)  hold on, i'm checking whether that is definately namespace-safe
[15:29] <hallyn> yeah, no reason not to imo
[15:30] <hallyn> ('mount -t mqueue /dev/mqueue /mnt' after lxc-unshare -s IPC /bin/bash does not show the contents from the host's equivalent mount)
[15:30] <stgraber> good, I'll upload the change as soon as the freeze is lifted then
[15:32] <stgraber> hallyn: isn't bug 948447 fixed with the apparmor profile?
[15:34] <hallyn> stgraber: no
[15:34] <hallyn> stgraber: that's fixed with precise guests bc udevadm trigger doesn't run
[15:34] <hallyn> stgraber: apparmor can't stop that
[15:34] <hallyn> that's the one we coudl do if we coudl write a BPF filter to reject the uevent netlink msgs from container
[15:35] <hallyn> heck, with seccomp2 now in our kernel, maybe we could do something with that.  if it wasn't too late
[15:35] <stgraber> hallyn: ok, good, so we can probably mark it fixed for good next cycle then
[15:38] <hallyn> hopefully.  i'm not 100% clear on how it'll work in practice
[15:44] <hallyn> stgraber: is that the only bug you're getting from lxc-execute?
[15:48] <stgraber> hallyn: yep
[16:07] <gary_poster> hallyn, hey.  -b in current lxc-create sets up an fstab that has "$homedir $homedir none bind 0 0" instead of "$homedir /var/lib/lxc/$container/rootfs/$homedir none bind 0 0".  This doesn't seem to work.  I'm about to file a bug, unless you stop me along the way. :-)
[16:08] <Daviey> roaksoax: Hey, are you planning that rabbit upload?
[16:09] <Daviey> roaksoax: we are now in thaw btw
[16:11] <hallyn> gary_poster: why does it not work?  that shoudl work
[16:11] <hallyn> bug is good
[16:12] <gary_poster> cool hallyn, will give details
[16:12] <roaksoax> Daviey: already uploaded
[16:12] <Daviey> roaksoax: awesome
[16:13] <roaksoax> hggdh: I need free machines to work on the fence_cdu issue you were seeing
[16:15] <hggdh> roaksoax: we are upgrading aldebaran to the jenkins precise backport right now. When we are done, you can test it there (as long as you do not destroy the system ;-))
[16:15] <roaksoax> hggdh: hehe I just need a couple of machines to 1. see what's going on. 2. work on a fix
[16:16] <roaksoax> hggdh: so, the cobbler server and 2 free machines not being used
[16:16] <roaksoax> to try to reproduce what you are seeing
[16:16] <hggdh> roaksoax: deal
[16:16] <hggdh> roaksoax: it will be aldebaran as the cobbler server, and alkaid and phact as the cannon fodder
[16:17] <roaksoax> hggdh: cool, just let me know when they are free
[16:17] <roaksoax> i'll work on it this afternoon
[16:18] <gary_poster> hallyn, a bot will announce it soon I'm sure, but I filed bug 968371.  Running to lunch.
[16:20] <hggdh> roaksoax: ack
[16:37] <smoser> ha.
[16:37] <smoser> this is pretty awesome
[16:37] <smoser> http://www.erikyyy.de/invaders/
[16:37] <smoser> download, extract, run:
[16:37] <smoser>  kvm -kernel invaders
[17:19] <koolhead17> Daviey, please let me know when you around, something important
[17:19] <koolhead17> to talk
[17:19] <koolhead17> help needed
[17:50] <gary_poster> hallyn, we are trying to decide whether to manually fix a one-off instance of our machinery and run some tests, or wait for the fixes (ubuntu template and lxc-start-ephemeral, I'm guessing) to bug 968371.  (Note that we're also willing to help with that bug, but it sounded like you were working on it already.)  Is this something we can hope to have fixed by, say, tomorrow; or will it be later?
[17:52] <hallyn> stgraber: ^ when is freeze to be lifted?
[17:52] <stgraber> hallyn: it's
[17:52] <stgraber> hallyn: I already uploaded lxc a few minutes ago with the lxc-execute fix
[17:53] <hallyn> ok
[17:53] <hallyn> gary_poster: i'd really like to finish digging into this libvirt bug, but i didn't realize you had a deadline.  I can pusha fix by tomorrow morning at leatest
[17:55] <gary_poster> hallyn, thank you; like I said, I'm happy to help, and also, if you want to dig into libvirt and then do this, that's fine, but it will change our plans a bit.  No biggie.  Would Monday be a better goal for 968371?
[17:56] <axisys> do I make change in logrotate.d/rsyslog or some other file to make sure mail.log in always 644 ?
[17:56] <hallyn> gary_poster: no let's plan on tomorrow.  LIke I say i'ts just a matter of removing the leading '/' from the second field in fstab, so if you want to post a debdiff that'd be great;  but i'll do it.  (once i decide how best to do it in bash :)
[17:57] <hallyn> gary_poster: really, I feel like I should re-write the lxc-start-ephemeral to be cleaner script (local vars, exit early if first part of pipline fails, etc).
[17:58] <gary_poster> heh, cool, thanks hallyn.  And then we might need an ephemeral change too, right, for the lines that parse fstab?  re-write: yeah, that sounds nice.  If it fits in your schedule, and we still have some time to test and debug it before final freeze, sounds good
[17:59] <hallyn> gary_poster: actually,
[17:59] <hallyn> gary_poster: originall someone wanted lxc-start-ephemeral to work for non-root,
[17:59] <hallyn> gary_poster, but some of the parsing being done now should make that fail.  Do you care?
[17:59] <hallyn> (i.e. 'while read line do < fstab.orig > fstab' type of stuff)
[17:59] <gary_poster> yeah, we talked about that
[18:00] <hallyn> i hope you don't mean you and i
[18:01] <hallyn> (just bc i have no recollection, and worry about my memory)
[18:01] <gary_poster> (no sorry, talked about it on our team.) I suspect it was me caring.  I'm into it just working now. :-)  We (our team) actually talked about proposing to rip all of the support for non-root for simplicity
[18:01] <gary_poster> We didn't do it, but would be fine with it now.
[18:02] <hallyn> right, we should either fix it somehow, or do a check early on for id == 0 and fail cleanly if not
[18:02] <gary_poster> +1
[18:04] <gary_poster> hallyn, so having the fix in tomorrow is plenty early for us, and much appreciated.  Please ask us if you want us to work on it, and we'll be happy to, but by default we won't, and will leave it to you.
[18:04] <gary_poster> Can also do testing if that would be helpful
[18:39] <zul> adam_g: im looking to upload a newish keystone tomorrow
[18:43] <adam_g> zul: with what?
[18:44] <zul> adam_g: the one with the git clone stuff removed from the testusite
[18:44] <adam_g> zul: please push to -proposed first, im going to be squashing some packaging bugs later today too
[18:44] <adam_g> nova has a few, and id really like to get the quantum package installabel
[18:44] <zul> adam_g: its already in there
[18:44] <adam_g> k
[19:12] <melter> does anyone know if the 12.04 focus on new hardware applies to ubuntu server?
[19:13] <dork> absolutely
[19:15] <jamespage> SpamapS, m_3: any opinion on whether I should spend some time FFe'ing/merging nodejs 0.6.x from debian for precise?
[19:17] <melter> dork: was that a reply to me?
[19:20] <dork> melter: yes
[19:21] <smoser> utlemming, need your help.
[19:27] <m_3> jamespage: don't really know what depends on the new version
[19:28] <jamespage> m_3: nothing in the archive
[19:28] <m_3> jamespage: as a general rule, sure... but
[19:28] <jamespage> but node seems to move along at a fair pace
[19:30] <m_3> jamespage: yup, I'm for it if you have tim
[19:30] <m_3> e
[19:30] <jamespage> m_3: I'll push it all somewhere to see if it works
[19:30] <jamespage> sure it will but...
[19:32] <smoser> utlemming, when you see this, please look at https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/precise-locale-warning
[19:32] <smoser> it seems to function as designed, but then when i tried to get french error messages i failed.
[19:33] <smoser> ie, i set LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8, and ssh'd in.
[19:33] <smoser> it gave me a friendly error message
[19:34] <smoser> i ran sudo localegen.... set LANG and LANGUAGE to fr_FR but then when i do somethin glike: ls asdf
[19:34] <smoser> the error message is english
[19:34] <Daviey> wfm
[19:53] <smoser> utlemming, i assigned bug 859814 to you.
[19:53] <smoser> i'd suggest starting from my branch and making sure that when you foloow the given directions it works.
[19:55] <adam_g> zul: were you able to successfully run all keystone tests lately?
[19:56] <zul> not since friday
[19:56] <zul> are they broken again?
[19:58] <adam_g> oh i see
[19:59] <adam_g> zul: the ksc test cases target (and git checkout) 3 different keystoneclient branches
[20:00] <zul> lovely..
[20:01] <adam_g> zul: we can just get rid of KcMasterTestCase + KcEssex3TestCase i think
[20:01] <adam_g> ill look into after luch. bb in a few
[20:01] <zul> adam_g: agreed
[20:04] <utlemming> smoser: ack
[20:05] <SpamapS> jamespage: what is our delta for node where we can't just sync it?
[20:05] <smoser> i can' tseem to make it give me french error messages
[20:06] <utlemming> smoser: do you have a paste of what your doing?
[20:07] <smoser> utlemming, well, not really.
[20:07] <smoser> :)
[20:08] <smoser> but the goal is to just launch instance
[20:08] <smoser> install new deb
[20:08] <smoser> exit
[20:08] <smoser> LC_ALL=some_other_lang ssh instance
[20:08] <smoser> see message, follow instructions
[20:08] <utlemming> so this is interesting
[20:08] <smoser> exit
[20:08] <smoser> LC_ALL=some_other_lang ssh instance
[20:08] <smoser> ls asdf
[20:08] <utlemming> if you have a proper locale generated and defined in the settings, then you get localized messages
[20:08] <smoser> see failed message in some othe rlanguage
[20:09] <utlemming> if, however, any of your locales defined in LANG=? or LC_*=?, are bad, then you get english
[20:09] <smoser> i'm completley locale iillterate.
[20:09] <utlemming> http://paste.ubuntu.com/906193/
[20:18] <_ruben> what determines the resolution of the console nowadays? (or on O actually)
[20:18] <_ruben> got two boxes, installed in the same way, but they ended up with different resolutions
[20:19] <_ruben> one of 'em might've had a monitor attached and the other not, during install
[20:35] <jamespage> SpamapS, mainly tests - we get some different test failures/timeouts
[20:35] <SpamapS> jamespage: ugh
[20:50] <jseutter> anyone here running maas from trunk?
[20:53] <jacobw> maas?
[20:54] <jacobw> assume that i want to learn juju, how could i do that?
[20:59] <jseutter> jacobw: do you want to use juju, or write charms?
[21:00] <jseutter> jacobw: if you want to simply use it, juju.ubuntu.com is pretty much the only spot for docs.
[21:02] <jseutter> jacobw: the tutorial there is pretty good at explaining how things work.  The other place you can look for stuff is on youtube.
[21:04] <smoser> utlemming, ok. you and i need to figure out how to do basic locale stuff
[21:04] <utlemming> smoser: like?
[21:04] <smoser> ie, i want to see an error message that i dont undretsand.
[21:04] <smoser> how do you do that
[21:05]  * utlemming works on it
[21:10] <smoser> i was using 'ls' because i'm almost certain its "no such file or directory" is translated.
[21:11] <utlemming> try apt
[21:12] <utlemming> so it depends on the language. But I've exported "LC_ALL=fr_FR
[21:12] <utlemming> and I get:
[21:12] <utlemming> $ apt-get --fail-miserably-you-stupid-machine
[21:12] <utlemming> E: L'option --fail-miserably-you-stupid-machine de la ligne de commande n'est pas reconnue
[21:14] <utlemming> and the language pack is not installed.
[21:15] <utlemming> After installing "language-pack-fr-base":
[21:15] <utlemming> $ ls foo
[21:15] <utlemming> ls: impossible d'acc�der � foo: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
[21:15] <utlemming> smoser: ^
[21:18] <utlemming> smoser: so the conclusion that we can draw here is 1) unless the appropriate language pack is installed, then errors messages are in english and 2) the default error language is english
[21:41] <jetole> Hey guys. Don't know if this is the best spot to ask but does anyone know how I can add a user to sudo-ldap who can execute all commands except certain ones, for example if I wanted to set a rule that allowed a user to execute all commands except /usr/bin/perl and /usr/bin/python, does anyone know how I would do that?
[21:42] <lifeless> man sudoers
[21:44] <jetole> lifeless: you know sudo? Can you take a look at my questions and see if you have any suggestions related to my problem?
[21:46] <SpamapS> jetole: if they can execute "all commands except perl" , they can execute /bin/bash .. or /usr/bin/top .. and run other commands
[21:47] <SpamapS> jetole: consider defining the exact commands they can execute, and just let them do that
[21:51] <jetole> SpamapS: actually I can set these rules on normal sudo so they can execute all commands except the ones I specify and I can make it so they cannot execute other command from the command called by sudo. On normal sudo I can say define a command alias SHELLS and have it contain all the shells on the system and then I say the user rule is """user ALL=ALL, !SHELLS""" (without the quotes) and then I use the option noexec which makes it so if I try ...
[21:51] <jetole> ... to run anything from say top, or vim, etc that it will fail. Now I know how I can easily implement noexec with sudo-ldap but, it doesn't have aliases and there are some weird limitions with the order it processes rules so not sure how to do the first part
[22:09] <SpamapS> jetole: heh.. sounds like complexity to me.. I'm like frankenstein with complexity.. COMPLEXITY BAD!!!
[22:09]  * SpamapS goes on a rampage
[22:21] <zul> SpamapS: braaains....braiiins
[22:23] <EvilResistance> zul, stop being a zombie, or i'll have to get my zombie-buster out
[22:25] <mcloy>  wget -r is not showing sometimes layout and  the links are always not working
[22:34] <SpamapS> EvilResistance: do you call it 'Waitpid The Destroyer'? ;)
[22:47] <jetole> SpamapS: yeah it's actually pretty easy and basic sudo stuff typically but something is different in sudo-ldap and while I can't put my finger on it, someone will come by and say "oh you just do it like this"
[22:47] <jetole> ...and I will scream "why didn't I think of that?"
[22:47] <jetole> on that not I'm going home for the day. Later
[23:12] <Aethor> hi all :) any network guru available for help/advice?
[23:12] <SpamapS> Aethor: best to just ask your question, and if somebody is around who can answer, they will
[23:13] <Aethor> ok - ubuntu 11.10, trying to bond 2 NICs, and at the end of my wits - /etc/network/interfaces looks ok and yet it doesn't work
[23:13] <Aethor> on network restart, I get a "RTNETLINK answers: File exist" error
[23:13] <Aethor> and then "Failed to bring up bond0"
[23:14] <Juv1228> hello, im trying to configure a server here. it has a single IP and needs to run several lxc containers
[23:14] <Juv1228> so it needs to use a nat and internal bridge correct?
[23:15] <SpamapS> Juv1228: lxc containers can use nat, or bridged networking
[23:16] <Juv1228> SpamapS, but with a bridged networking they each have to have their own public ip right?
[23:18] <SpamapS> Juv1228: right, so you probably want NAT
[23:18] <Juv1228> to avoid that i am trying to setup a nat and use shorewall to firewall/forward things
[23:19] <Juv1228> the problem is none of my containers can reach the outside world
[23:50] <taipres> That bug report is confusing
[23:51] <taipres> oh missing files, nevermind


[00:02] <zxcasd> hi all, how do I setup VNC to handle multiple users connected at the same time?
[06:52] <Spearoth> Mornin'
[06:53] <JoseeAntonioR> Hello!
[06:54] <Spearoth> I'm searching for help installing ispcp on a web server. Went to ispcp-channel before, but its quiet there
[06:55] <Spearoth> Any suggestions where to go?
[07:05] <mlearnest> Does anyone have recommendations for good reference books for those that are exploring Ubuntu for the first time?
[07:08] <JoseeAntonioR> mlearnest: www.ubuntuguide.org
[08:43] <anshul215> hi
[08:45] <anshul215> hii
[08:45] <benonsoftware> Hello anshul215
[08:46] <anshul215> i am using this first time
[08:56] <philipballew> anshul215, hows that workin out
[08:57] <anshul215> just trying to learn how it works
[08:58] <anshul215> i am unable to connect with empathy
[09:07] <philipballew> what are you using then anshul215
[09:07] <anshul215> i am using webchat.freenode.net
[11:45] <k2s> I have USB headset and would like to make Skype ring on all devices, but use only headset for call. At this moment I have to change sound settings before/after call. thx
[12:54] <anshul215> quit
[13:57] <fr33r1d3> Hello World!
[21:55] <windipity>  /join #cs399group4


[04:51] <pitti> Good morning
[05:24] <larsu> good morning!
[05:34] <didrocks> mornign
[05:34] <didrocks> morning*
[05:34] <larsu> hi didrocks!
[05:34] <didrocks> hey larsu! up early :)
[05:35] <larsu> yep :)
[05:36] <didrocks> how was your week-end?
[05:36] <larsu> good. Went to  climbing park yesterday
[05:36] <larsu> and I pulled something in my back :/
[05:36]  * larsu can't walk properly
[05:37] <larsu> how was yours?
[05:51] <didrocks> urgh :/
[05:51] <didrocks> I hope that you will get better son!
[05:51] <didrocks> soon*
[05:52] <didrocks> we did walk a lot, I guess something like 16kms again for the european days
[05:52] <didrocks> (they open quite a lot of buildings/monuments and orgnanize activities over the week-end for promoting them)
[05:54] <larsu> oh nice!
[05:54] <larsu> how was it?
[05:59] <didrocks> it was great, we avoided the rain ;)
[05:59] <didrocks> we saw a lot of painted walls inside buildings
[05:59] <didrocks> walked from park to park
[05:59] <didrocks> and also visited the local archive which just opened 10 minutes away from our home
[06:00] <didrocks> (it opened 2 weeks ago)
[06:01] <didrocks> you can easily notice the building: http://www.lyonpoleimmo.com/2014/09/16/33284/le-batiment-des-archives-departementales-du-rhone-a-ouvert/
[06:01] <didrocks> (so, seeing how they store the archives, how they manage to get you access to them, and such…)
[06:04] <larsu> sounds very interesting!
[06:04] <didrocks> yeah, it was great
[06:04] <larsu> and that building looks huge :)
[06:04] <didrocks> heh it is, to store all the archive of Lyon and nearby :)
[06:04] <didrocks> archives*
[06:27] <pitti> hey larsu, bonjour didrocks !
[06:27] <larsu> pitti: guten morgen!
[06:27] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
[07:01] <JackYu> didrocks, hi
[07:01] <didrocks> JackYu: hey
[07:05] <jack_> didrocks, would please help to upload a package at bug #1371165?
[07:05] <didrocks> jack_: sure, I can handle this, however, you need the FFe to be approved first by the release team
[07:05] <didrocks> (which isn't the case it seems)
[07:06] <didrocks> jack_: you didn't suscribe the release team as per wiki page, that's why they didn't look at it yet
[07:06] <jack_> didrocks, OK, I will do it now:)
[07:06] <didrocks> jack_: mind pinging me back once they approved it? I'll then upload/make a review
[07:07] <jack_> didrocks, sure, thanks.
[07:07] <didrocks> yw! :)
[07:47] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[07:47] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[07:47] <pitti> it's a Sébastien !
[07:48] <pitti> bonjour !
[07:49] <seb128> lut didrocks, pitti
[08:04] <willcooke> morning all
[08:04] <Laney> hey hey
[08:04] <didrocks> morning willcooke & Laney!
[08:05] <darkxst> hey Laney, didrocks seb128 pitti
[08:05] <pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
[08:05] <didrocks> hello darkxst
[08:05] <Laney> good day
[08:05] <pitti> hey willcooke
[08:05] <Laney> good weekends?
[08:05]  * pitti waves to Laney, too
[08:06] <darkxst> pitti, good, but been too busy!
[08:06] <seb128> hey everyone
[08:06] <larsu> morning everyone!
[08:06] <didrocks> Laney: excellent, a lot of walking and visiting monuments in the city (it was the week-end were most of monuments normally closed were opened) :)
[08:06] <didrocks> Laney: how about you?
[08:06] <Laney> closed on the weekend
[08:06] <Laney> what witchcraft is this!
[08:06] <didrocks> Laney: not closed on the weekend, just like "closed", no public access :)
[08:07] <willcooke> didrocks, we had a simialr thing "Open London"
[08:07] <Laney> visited baby nephew on saturday, went climbing on sunday & then for a roast at a friend's house :-)
[08:07] <Laney> didrocks: I mean that that's probably one of the days they should definitely be fully open by default?
[08:07] <didrocks> willcooke: yeah, seems it's something european (at least, they call it like this in France)
[08:08] <didrocks> Laney: well, the city town hall for instance isn't opened to the public, and they let people visiting it for those couple of day
[08:08] <didrocks> days*
[08:09] <Laney> oh I get it
[08:09] <Laney> I thought you meant like art galleries
[08:09] <darkxst> Laney, any chance of getting the gnome-desktop transition though still, I've barely been around the computer the last week so havent been able to file a FFe just yet
[08:09] <Laney> darkxst: I emailed poking Robert for it on Friday
[08:09] <darkxst> but I have merges of gnome-desktop, g-s-d and g-c-c
[08:09] <didrocks> Laney: they are opened and free as well (where museum aren't in France), but it's more interesting to visit things you can't usually :)
[08:10] <Laney> for sure
[08:10] <darkxst> Using the 3.10 power plugin/panel to avoid needing upower
[08:10] <didrocks> Laney: willcooke: seems it's called European Heritage Days in your country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Heritage_Days)
[08:11] <didrocks> (and yeah, Open London in London because it shouldn't be named the same :p)
[08:11] <Laney> darkxst: aha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1372240
[08:11] <Laney> the problem is that it's beta freeze today
[08:12] <Laney> it would be a good change for us to have in before the beta though I reckon
[08:13] <pitti> Laney:
[08:13] <darkxst> Laney full transition or just the u-s-d/u-c-c changes first?
[08:13] <pitti>     upower: The type of the Device* signal arguments are 'o', not 's'.
[08:13] <pitti>
[08:14] <pitti> Laney: I just noticed https://launchpadlibrarian.net/185450739/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-i386.python-dbusmock_0.11.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[08:14] <pitti> Laney: it seems upower 0.9 indeed needs 's', not 'o'
[08:14] <pitti> Laney: I missed that locally as I have upower 0.99 installed in utopic for months (and forgot about it)
[08:14] <pitti> Laney: I take it you only tested that with 0.99, not with 0.9/
[08:15] <pitti> ?
[08:17] <Laney> pitti: Hmm, sorry about that, looks like it but I can't remember for sure
[08:17] <Laney> you want me to fix?
[08:18] <pitti> Laney: nah, I'm on it, I just wanted to ensure that you didn't specifically fix this for 0.9
[08:18] <pitti> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8401975/ fixes the tests for 0.9 again, verifying with 0.99
[08:19] <Laney> darkxst: I didn't look at the transition itself yet, was focused on this
[08:19] <Laney> do you have a summary of that?
[08:24] <darkxst> Laney, much the same as 3.10, mostly rebuilds, I don't believe there are any api changes outsides of the xrandr/idle monitor code
[08:25] <Laney> okay, file the bug with list of packages please and I'll take a look
[08:32] <jibel> on latest utopic desktop in qemu lightdm doesn't start and I find nothing interesting in the logs. Any idea where to look to find out why this is happening?
[08:33] <jibel> /var/log/lightdm is empty
[08:33] <jibel> this is bug 1371651 btw
[08:45] <darkxst> Laney, Bug 1372346
[08:53] <Laney> darkxst: cheers, subscribed ubuntu-release for you
[09:02] <Sweetshark> moin
[09:04] <Sweetshark> "Someone" (likely a kernel or nvidia-drivers update) broke my nvidia-optimus with an SRU on trusty btw which I pulled in on my first day of vacation ...
[09:06] <Sweetshark> ... xorg just boots into an blank screen but thinks everything is fine. VTs still work and the xorg.log is suggesting a happy start.
[09:07] <Sweetshark> I worked around that by disabling optimus in BIOS (which I am luckily able on this device).
[09:16] <willcooke> Sweetshark, I /think/ popey had the same problem
[09:17] <popey> i dont use optimus
[09:20] <seb128> hum
[09:20] <seb128> we should probably try to get https://packages.qa.debian.org/u/usbmuxd/news/20140913T092542Z.html in utopic
[09:21] <Laney> oh hi seb128 ;-)
[09:21] <Laney> Sweetshark: #ubuntu-kernel maybe, would probably be good to identify the bad package
[09:22] <seb128> hey Laney ;-)
[09:23] <willcooke> seb128, looks like we have 1.0.7 right?
[09:23] <Laney> what's good about that version?
[09:23] <seb128> willcooke, no, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usbmuxd 1.0.8
[09:24] <Laney> anyway it's good that we know the uploader
[09:24] <seb128> Laney, it should fix those gvfs-afc segfault we get
[09:25]  * seb128 looks back for the bug
[09:26] <seb128> bug 1355020
[09:26] <seb128> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745844
[09:26] <seb128> Laney, ^
[09:27] <seb128> there is also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usbmuxd/+bug/1363583
[09:27] <Laney> kay
[09:28] <Laney> hyperair: we're talking about your package here
[09:28] <seb128> which states that any program using that lib ^ is going to segfault until we update usbmuxd
[09:28] <hyperair> hmm?
[09:28] <hyperair> yeha i uploaded a snapshot
[09:28] <Laney> seb128 is wondering about syncing it
[09:28] <seb128> should we sync that to utopic?
[09:28] <hyperair> sure
[09:28] <hyperair> but please do the testing
[09:28] <seb128> I don't have the required hardware for that :/
[09:28] <hyperair> nor do i
[09:28] <hyperair> this is a joke
[09:29]  * hyperair is maintaining the libgpod bunch of stuff because nobody else will do it
[09:29] <hyperair> but i haven't an iphone myself
[09:29] <Laney> apply to the dpl for an iphone :-)
[09:29] <hyperair> let the iphone users burn. \o/
[09:29] <hyperair> nothanks, that shit shall stay out of my hands
[09:29] <hyperair> evil devices, those
[09:29] <seb128> well, the bts ticket has a comment from an user saying the update fixes the issue
[09:29]  * hyperair strokes his nexus 5
[09:29] <hyperair> well, that's good enough for me. =p
[09:29] <seb128> let's sync!
[09:29] <Laney> this is all very reassuring :P
[09:29] <hyperair> indeed
[09:30] <hyperair> \o/
[09:30] <hyperair> thing is, usbmuxd hasn't moved for 5 months or so before i packaged that snapshot
[09:30] <hyperair> upstream i mena
[09:30] <seb128> willcooke, do you know of anyone having an iphone around?
[09:30] <hyperair> so i guess it should be okay enough
[09:30] <seb128> yeah, fedora is also shipping a snapshot
[09:30] <hyperair> alright
[09:30] <hyperair> is it the same rev?
[09:30] <hyperair> and eh.. fedora isn't very reknown for its stability, is it?
[09:30] <seb128> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/usbmuxd.git/
[09:31] <seb128> 1.0.9-0.6.c24463e
[09:31] <willcooke> seb128, I have a 5s
[09:31] <seb128> indeed not
[09:31] <hyperair> but debian's doing it, so it must be okay!
[09:31] <seb128> lol
[09:31]  * hyperair coughs
[09:31]  * hyperair hides under the desk
[09:31] <seb128> seems like willcooke can test things on a 5s
[09:31] <seb128> what sort of testing do we need?
[09:31]  * willcooke . o ( the shame)
[09:31] <seb128> like "is it listed/working in rhythmbox"?
[09:31] <hyperair> no idea, plug it in, see if things randomly segfault?
[09:31] <hyperair> try syncing
[09:32] <hyperair> i've heard people complaining that it doesn't work in 14.04 itself
[09:32] <seb128> willcooke, what's current happening if you plug that device on a 14.10 deskto?
[09:32]  * willcooke will have to install a 14.10 desktop
[09:32] <willcooke> I assume this won't work well via a vm
[09:32] <hyperair> so we uh, have 5 more commits over fedora's snapshot
[09:32] <hyperair> mostly bugfixes
[09:32] <seb128> willcooke, not running Ubuntu are you? ;-)
[09:32] <hyperair> ...and a protocol version switch
[09:32]  * seb128 ducks
[09:33] <seb128> hyperair, urg
[09:33] <willcooke> wait, I have to use this strange Linux thing do I?
[09:33] <hyperair> indeed
[09:33] <seb128> not the strange one
[09:33] <willcooke> I stick with LTS
[09:33] <seb128> the one for Ubuntu beings
[09:33] <seb128> Human*
[09:33] <seb128> even
[09:33] <hyperair> THE ONE FOR HOOMINS
[09:33] <willcooke> but I will install 14.10 on my Inspiron
[09:33] <seb128> thanks
[09:34] <hyperair> yay
[09:34]  * willcooke downloads the iso
[09:34] <seb128> good opportunity to try 14.10 daily :p
[09:34] <seb128> willcooke, thanks
[09:34] <hyperair> seb128: in any case, upstream says there shall be another release soon
[09:34] <seb128> hyperair, yeah, but beta freeze is today for us
[09:34] <hyperair> mm
[09:34] <hyperair> just stick it in
[09:34] <hyperair> let the beta testers flush the issues out
[09:34] <seb128> yeah
[09:34] <Laney> do it, we can sync that later if necessary
[09:34] <seb128> Laney, ^ wdyt?
[09:34] <hyperair> indeed
[09:35] <seb128> who want to press the button? ;-)
[09:35] <hyperair> it's probably just moar bugfixes after this
[09:35] <hyperair> go go
[09:35] <happyaron> didrocks: can you have a look at this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx-qimpanel-configtool/+bug/1371912
[09:35] <hyperair> 2014-09-10 04:07:41<nikias> hyperair just spoke to psp250. We'll cook up a release in the next few days.
[09:35] <happyaron> didrocks: seems it's blocking fcitx-qimpanel's proposed migration
[09:36] <hyperair> next few days > (22 - 10) apparently.
[09:36] <seb128> great
[09:36] <Laney> cool
[09:37] <happyaron> attente_: is there any missing bit in the new fcitx release for you?
[09:37]  * Laney acks bug #1372240
[09:37] <seb128> Laney, hyperair, ok so should I do the sync?
[09:37] <Laney> ok
[09:37] <hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/122326/ <-- this is what's changed in usbmuxd since i did that upload
[09:37] <hyperair> seb128: yeah go ahead
[09:38] <seb128> done
[09:38] <hyperair> hmmmm
[09:38] <Laney> OH GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
[09:39] <seb128> lol
[09:39] <hyperair> :D
[09:39] <hyperair> O:D
[09:39] <hyperair> OO:D <-- multiple halos for more credibility
[09:39]  * Laney notices a bitcoin mining process running
[09:39]  * hyperair lols
[09:39] <didrocks> happyaron: sounds good, removing! :)
[09:40] <didrocks> happyaron: you added some Replaces: in the version in proposed if it's installing the same files?
[09:41] <happyaron> yes
[09:42] <seb128> Laney, btw, new gst1.0 bugfix versions, should I sync gst/base?
[09:42]  * didrocks flushes
[09:42] <Laney> jibel: sorry for no reply, I just installed the daily in qemu and it works for me
[09:43] <didrocks> happyaron: next publisher cycle should have the removed
[09:43] <Laney> seb128: already downloading to test build / install / sync
[09:43] <didrocks> removal*
[09:43] <seb128> Laney, great
[09:43] <seb128> Laney, oh, can you get the new glib in rtm btw?
[09:43] <Laney> erm
[09:43] <seb128> Laney, since it fixes the wakeup isue
[09:43] <Laney> the polling thing?
[09:43] <seb128> yes
[09:43] <Laney> I suppose so
[09:43] <seb128> that's important for the phone
[09:43] <seb128> great
[09:43] <seb128> thanks
[09:43] <Laney> it's just the process
[09:44] <jibel> Laney, looks like a race somewhere, sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't.
[09:44] <Laney> whatever is the test plan for glib ...
[09:44] <seb128> Laney, "make sure things keep working" :p
[09:44] <Laney> seb128: I would like it if we could upload usd/ucc today too
[09:44] <Laney> do you know if those branches are attached to the bug are it?
[09:44] <seb128> Laney, for gnome-desktop?
[09:45] <Laney> yeah
[09:45] <Laney> think it would be good to be in the beta
[09:45] <seb128> I think they are yes
[09:45] <happyaron> didrocks: thanks
[09:45] <Laney> okay
[09:45] <Laney> would you be able to put it in the train?
[09:47] <seb128> sure
[09:48] <Laney> ty
[09:48] <jibel> Laney, it happens once every 5 boots or so on my machine
[09:49] <Laney> jibel: alright, I'll reboot a few times
[10:00] <happyaron> Laney: do you mind to add ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu to ubuntukylin packageset? I sent to request to devel-permission just now
[10:01] <seb128> Laney, can I upload a glib with a distro patch to silent those property warnings? ;-)
[10:01] <Laney> yes, that's shared with ubuntu
[10:02] <Laney> if you want, but I'm sad about it
[10:02] <seb128> Laney, well, what else do you suggest so I can work without having my command line spammed with warnings? ;-)
[10:02] <Laney> export G_ENABLE_DIAGNOSTICS=0
[10:03] <seb128> we can spend efforts on GTK, but I see little point doing that when we are going to get the fixes for free next cycle when we update
[10:03] <Laney> :-)
[10:03] <seb128> we are not going to ask every user to export a "UNBUG_MY_DEV_ENV"
[10:03] <Laney> you said 'my'
[10:03] <seb128> well, I'm interested in a solution for utopic
[10:03] <seb128> which I'm using
[10:04] <seb128> so yeah, if we fix utopic, it fixes my case as well :p
[10:04] <seb128> do you think we benefit that much from those warnings?
[10:04] <seb128> it doesn't seem like something that adds value to the release to me
[10:05] <seb128> we are going to get those warning back next cycle, when we get the new GTK and don't get the side effect of having glib/gtk mismatching
[10:05] <didrocks> seb128: +1 for the distro patch
[10:05] <Laney> I think it is gtk's problem, not glib's, so working round it there is bad form
[10:05] <Laney> but go for it if you don't think fixing that is worth it
[10:05] <seb128> Laney, well, as said we can spend efforts on silencing GTK warnings on a version we plan to replace when next cycle opens
[10:05] <happyaron> Laney: then please add it when convenient
[10:06] <seb128> but it doesn't seem a good use of our resources to me
[10:06] <Laney> happyaron: that was "yes I do mind"
[10:06] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[10:06] <seb128> Laney, thanks as well
[10:06] <happyaron> Laney: ok..
[10:06] <Laney> sorry, but it shouldn't have packages which are shared with Ubuntu
[10:06] <Laney> it's a policy
[10:06] <happyaron> fine to me
[10:07] <seb128> Laney, I'm going to distro patch that for utopic, so we don't waste resources reducing noise on a gtk version which is not buggy for users otherwise, knowing that gtk is already fixed in the new serie so things are sorting themself once we update
[10:07] <Laney> I guess my main problem is that it is targeting one problem with a solution that affects everything
[10:08] <Laney> and if you want to do that thing then it is for upstream
[10:08] <seb128> well, it's not like those warnings were useful in a stable version
[10:08] <seb128> it's the same way we turn off apport for release
[10:08] <Laney> but last time desrt didn't want to add such a thing to glib, so ...
[10:09] <seb128> well, he provided me the patch
[10:09] <seb128> and it said it makes sense rather than spending time "fixing" gtk 3.12
[10:09] <seb128> with the agreement that the patch is only for utopic
[10:09] <seb128> next cycle we have a fixed gtk and we can go back to show warnings during unstable serie
[10:09] <didrocks> I really don't think users must undergo the technical details of why we didn't upgrade some parts when there is no visible effect at all of the cause
[10:09] <didrocks> and we should always keep that in mind for our decisions
[10:10] <Laney> I've made my points, this is circular now
[10:10] <Laney> just do it
[10:11] <darkxst> gah, https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/unity-settings-daemon/xkb still not been merged ;(
[10:12] <Laney> that can be in this landing
[10:16] <darkxst> Laney, ok, so land the unity changes pre freeze? and the rest post freeze?
[10:16] <Laney> think so
[10:18] <darkxst> Laney, I just pushed all rebuild to ppa:darkxst/gnome-desktop, so that basically has everything except u-s-d/u-c-c
[10:20] <Laney> darkxst: I'd like it if they were in a copyable form
[10:20] <Laney> ie using distro version numbers
[10:21] <willcooke> seb128, got 14.10 installed.  what do you need me to do?
[10:22] <seb128> willcooke, connect your iphone to usb and see what happens I guess
[10:22] <darkxst> Laney, sure can do, I can repush them after freeze
[10:22] <seb128> like is it listed as a mount
[10:22] <seb128> willcooke, see if rhythmbox lists it/includes music
[10:23] <willcooke> seb128, 1st plugin in = crash of something.  Trying to work out what
[10:23] <seb128> willcooke, gvfs-afcd I guess?
[10:23] <willcooke> seb128, now I've told the phone to "trust" the desktop, and trying again
[10:24] <seb128> willcooke, the "details" in the apport dialog should tell you what process it was
[10:24] <willcooke> seb128, "Unable to mount $iphone_name. Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)"
[10:26] <willcooke> seb128, gvfs-afc-volume-monitor
[10:26] <seb128> k
[10:26] <willcooke> seg fault
[10:26] <willcooke> in strlen()
[10:27] <willcooke> and then
[10:27] <seb128> willcooke, great, now we need to see if the issue is still there with the usbmuxd update from this morning
[10:27] <willcooke> "The problem cannot be reported.  You have obsolete package version installed"
[10:27] <seb128> it should be fixed with the new version
[10:27] <willcooke> seb128, so I should wait a day or so, upgade and try again
[10:27] <willcooke> ?
[10:27] <Laney> darkxst: preferably in a dedicated ppa
[10:27] <Laney> so I can just copy everything from it
[10:28] <seb128> willcooke, no need to wait a day, it's in utopic, run update-manager, upgrade, reboot, try again
[10:28] <Laney> ty
[10:28] <willcooke> seb128, ack
[10:28] <seb128> willcooke, thanks
[10:29] <seb128> willcooke, the package just migrated, it might take another 15 minutes before apt/update-manager sees the update
[10:29] <willcooke> seb128, no worries
[10:30] <darkxst> Laney, what do you mean? that is a dedicated ppa (although it still has trusty packages from last time around)
[10:30] <Laney> darkxst: indeed, there's other things in there
[10:30] <Laney> you can delete those instead if you want
[10:34] <seb128> darkxst, Laney, you want https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/unity-settings-daemon/xkb/+merge/224919 to be merged as well?
[10:34] <seb128> that needs to be rebased on top of https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/xrandr/+merge/224548 if so
[10:34] <seb128> they conflict on debian/control changes
[10:35] <darkxst> seb128, yes, let me rebase now
[10:35] <seb128> thanks
[10:37] <willcooke> tkamppeter, email from Brother re: IPP. CC'd you on the reply. They're going to test their IPP printers with 14.10 \o/
[10:38] <seb128> nice!
[10:44] <darkxst> seb128, rebased and pushed, but silly bzr ate the history
[10:44] <seb128> k
[10:44] <seb128> the way you do it usually is merge trunk/the other vcs in, resolve the conflict and commit that
[10:45] <seb128> bah
[10:46] <seb128> is bugzilla.gnome.org down?
[10:46] <seb128> oh, no, just slow it seems
[10:51] <darkxst> seb128, that seems kind of backwards but then I mostly work with git more than bzr
[11:22] <Laney> I hope I'm driving this rtm sync right ........
[11:23] <seb128> Laney, can l53 be deleted? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/12.10.5+14.10.20140919-0ubuntu1 seems to include the change you describe in there
[11:23] <Laney> that landed
[11:23] <Laney> don't know about deleting lines, never done that before
[11:23] <seb128> just delete it if it's deprecated
[11:24] <Laney> ok
[11:25] <darkxst> seb128, repushed branch with fixed history
[11:25] <seb128> darkxst, shrug
[11:25] <seb128> I had it in a silo building
[11:25] <seb128> I guess I can start from scratch again now :/
[11:26]  * seb128 is slightly annoyed
[11:26] <darkxst> seb128, I told you the history was messed up
[11:26] <seb128> well, I didn't care much about that
[11:26] <seb128> as long as the code changes are ok
[11:26] <seb128> but ok, let me see if I can cancel the build
[11:27] <Laney> If you can't I can, give me a PPA link
[11:27] <seb128> I clicked the red cross on the jenkins job
[11:27] <seb128> trying to restart a build
[11:28] <Laney> you might have to cancel the actual build  in the PPA too
[11:28] <seb128> it was still preparing the packages, didn't do the actual dput I think
[11:28] <Laney> oh I don't even see it https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-020
[11:28] <seb128> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-020-1-build/35/console
[11:28] <Laney> yeah
[11:28] <Laney> not much loss then
[11:59] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-020/+packages
[11:59] <seb128> has u-s-d/u-c-c to test
[12:52] <willcooke> seb128, do I need to be running proposed in order to get those updates?
[12:52] <seb128> willcooke, no
[12:52] <seb128> they should be available by now, if you are not using a mirror at least
[12:52] <willcooke> just looking to see whats been upgraded
[12:53] <willcooke> some glib networking things
[12:53] <willcooke> ahhh
[12:53] <willcooke> usbmuxd
[12:53] <willcooke> kk
[12:56] <willcooke> hrm now upowerd is segv
[13:03] <willcooke> seb128, ok - it's better.  It mounts the device and it knows its a music player and a camera
[13:04] <seb128> willcooke, great!
[13:04] <willcooke> but I still see an error "unable to mount $iphone_device_name.  Unhandled lockdown error (-256)"
[13:04] <willcooke> that error doesnt seem to break anything though
[13:04] <willcooke> like
[13:04] <willcooke> I can see browse the device
[13:06] <seb128> willcooke, thanks, iphone support is known to be suboptimal, I wanted to see at least the segfault resolved
[13:06] <seb128> which seems to be the case
[13:06] <willcooke> yeah, certainly an improvement
[13:07] <willcooke> seb128,  second boot everything worked fine
[13:07] <seb128> nice!
[13:24] <seb128> Laney, do you want to test that ppa more? or should I just land that to utopic?
[13:25] <Laney> seb128: I didn't test it yet, let me just install and reboot
[13:25] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[13:29] <Laney> seb128: ucc is still building?
[13:30] <seb128> Laney, oh right, I keep forgetting you guys don't use i386 ;-)
[13:31] <Laney> yeah I should upgrade to that at some point
[13:31] <seb128> hehe
[13:34] <seb128> Laney, ok, amd64 built, I guess it's going to take some extra minutes for the index to be updated
[13:34] <Laney> ok, cool, should give me time to prod at this script some more
[13:35] <Laney> what the hell is up with lxc lately
[13:41]  * Sweetshark building LibreOffice 4.3.2~rc2 with fixed mergedlibs, autopkgtests and dropped transitionals
[13:42] <desrt> Laney: btw: i have another glib stable on the way
[13:42] <desrt> which one you package is not really critically important
[13:42] <desrt> but the existing stable misses some semi-important bsd-related fixes
[13:43] <desrt> i got to hear about that all weekend long from some of my new friends :)
[13:43] <Laney> oh well I didn't start on that
[13:43] <desrt> i'll have .2 out the door today some time
[13:43] <desrt> along with the .0
[13:44] <Laney> wouldn't want to upset the ubuntu/freebsd community
[13:44] <desrt> :)
[13:44] <desrt> that's why i say that it doesn't matter much for you :p
[14:39] <seb128> Laney, https://git.gnome.org/browse/shotwell/tree/NEWS ... do you consider shotwell 0.18 -> 0.20 as something that requires a ffe?
[14:42] <Laney> I think so, for those new services, would be good to have it tested
[14:42] <seb128> I've no clue what those services are and no real interest into looking into that
[14:42] <seb128> what if I disable build of those new services? :p
[14:42] <didrocks> seb128: thanks for source NEWing nose-json on Friday btw, mind looking at binNEWing it? :)
[14:43] <JackYu> laney, hi, would you please review the FFe request at bug #1371165?
[14:43] <Laney> then it would probably be fix only
[14:43] <seb128> didrocks, sure, looking
[14:43] <didrocks> thanks
[14:43] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:44] <JackYu> Laney, Hi~~
[14:45] <Laney> JackYu: I will do
[14:45] <JackYu> Laney, great, thanks:)
[14:57] <seb128> Laney, ok, so those are plugins which are not enabled by default for non-common services (one of them is a czesh specific one) ... is it worth filing a ffe if I state I can't/don't wantt to spend time trying to get those exotic options tested?
[14:57] <seb128> Laney, or is it better if I try to axe in the build-system to make them not installed at all?
[15:00] <Laney> you mean that you have to go to preferences -> plugins and enable them?
[15:01] <JackYu> Laney, also, could you help to release the "ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu 87"? we have merged the ubuntu-kylin-slideshow into it.
[15:02] <seb128> Laney, yes
[15:02] <Laney> JackYu: I think that is in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/86
[15:03] <JackYu> Laney, yeap...
[15:05] <Laney> JackYu: it's in the NEW queue for an archive admin to review https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
[15:07] <seb128> Laney, JackYu, slideshow NEWed
[15:08] <seb128> didrocks, nose binNEWed as well
[15:08] <didrocks> seb128: thanks!
[15:08] <seb128> yw!
[15:08] <JackYu> seb128, Laney, that's great, thanks.
[15:09] <seb128> ok, I'm off for some exercice
[15:10] <seb128> Laney, would be nice if you could test the silo ppa so I can publish when I'm back, also please advice what to do for shotwell, I would like to get that update/the bugfixes in utopic
[15:10] <seb128> bbiab
[15:11] <Laney> seb128: I think you can upload shotwell, but I don't much like "I don't want to test the new features" :(
[15:11] <Laney> Fair enough if the Czech one is too hard to do though
[15:11] <Laney> I'll test the silo in parallel with DMB
[15:15] <seb128> Laney, I would test the features if they were things most users would use/exercice or easy to hit, I'm not going to create some accounts on random online services with my email to test some hidden plugin functionality though
[15:16] <seb128> I'm happy to hack the buildsystem/packaging around to drop those plugins though
[15:16] <seb128> thanks for the testing!
[15:27] <Laney> the silo seems good from what I can see
[15:31] <JackYu> Hi Laney, how about bug #1371165?  tomorrow is beta final freeze:).
[15:31] <Laney> I'm just finishing up with a meeting
[15:33] <JackYu> I see. Busy Monday...
[15:36] <Laney> JackYu: there you go
[15:37] <JackYu> Laney,  thanks!
[15:39] <JackYu> didrocks, hi, could you help to upload this package at bug #1371165 ? Laney approved the FFe just now.
[15:39] <didrocks> JackYu: hum, let me have a look
[15:40] <didrocks> JackYu: seems like you already asked and gave to seb128, right?
[15:40] <didrocks> seeing that he commented 5 hours ago)
[15:40] <JackYu> didrocks, seb128 have helped to review it.
[15:41] <didrocks> JackYu: where are the updates? https://code.launchpad.net/~luolei/ubuntu-kylin-sso-client/trunk is from the 19th
[15:42] <didrocks> JackYu: the debian/copyright fix is not in trunk
[15:43] <JackYu> didrocks, let's me check.
[15:44] <didrocks> JackYu: also: bzr: ERROR: Inconsistency between source format and version: version is native, format is not native.
[15:44] <didrocks> debian/source/format should be: 3.0 (native)
[15:45] <Laney> diff the packaging with ubuntu-sso-client? ;-)
[15:45] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, I was doing that, seems similar
[15:45] <JackYu> didrocks, I will update the code asap.
[15:45] <didrocks> Laney: the thing is that I can't even bzr bd :p
[15:48] <didrocks> JackYu: in addition to what seb128 told: W: ubuntu-kylin-sso-client source: missing-license-paragraph-in-dep5-copyright gpl-3 with openssl exception (paragraph at line 3)
[15:48] <didrocks> please add the paragraph
[15:49] <didrocks> JackYu: also debian/tests/control mentions a run-tests file which doesn't exist in debian/tests/
[15:50] <JackYu> didrocks, Sure.
[15:50] <didrocks> JackYu: nitpick, but, please change the date to be a real one in debian/changelog
[15:50] <didrocks> Thu, 19 Sep 2014 -> was a Friday
[15:50] <didrocks> JackYu: a hint, when you build the package, you have lintian warnings in the end, they tell you that :)
[15:51] <JackYu> OK!
[15:51] <Laney> I think the Tests-Directory: . fixes the debian/tests thing
[15:51] <Laney> Makes it look in the root of the package which has such a script
[15:51] <didrocks> Laney: I compared to u-s-c, and it seems that they still have the other file
[15:51] <didrocks> I don't really know and want to risk blocking in proposed though, wdyt?
[15:52] <didrocks> if you are sure it's working that way, fine with me :)
[15:52] <Laney> this is also part of the diff
[15:52] <Laney> +Tests-Directory: .
[15:52] <didrocks> JackYu: and finally (other small things, but not too big):  ubuntu-kylin-sso-client-qt has a too long description line, please wrap in debian/control to 80 characters
[15:53] <didrocks> Laney: ah ok, thanks for the hint, JackYu: please ignore the test comment then
[15:53] <Laney> Looks like all the Ubuntu one does is run that script
[15:53] <JackYu> good:)
[15:53] <Laney> someone's clever, fixing that :P
[15:54] <didrocks> JackYu: oh, and in debian/control -> Priority: extra -> set it to optional please :)
[15:54] <didrocks> no reason to have it extra
[15:56] <didrocks> JackYu: ok, the rest is minor, just do those changes and I'll NEW it
[15:57] <JackYu> didrocks, got it, dong now
[15:57] <didrocks> JackYu: seeing the commit: 7 Files: *
[15:57] <didrocks>  7Files: all others
[15:57] <didrocks> this is wrong :)
[15:57] <didrocks> for the second one, just keep Files: *
[15:58] <didrocks> (this will be "all other files" from the spec)
[16:08] <didrocks> JackYu: do you think you are nearly done? I'm going to EODing soon, but I guess seb128 can finish it once he's back as he will finish later on
[16:09] <didrocks> (I posted my comments on the bug report so that he can continue)
[16:10] <JackYu> didrocks, in 2 minutes:)
[16:12] <didrocks> JackYu: also, in changelog, add the LP: #bugnumber for the FFe so that people aren't suprised by the new package :) (even if it won't close the bug automatically)
[16:13] <JackYu> got it.
[16:17] <JackYu> didrocks, Committed.
[16:18] <didrocks> JackYu: forgot to push? https://code.launchpad.net/~luolei/ubuntu-kylin-sso-client/trunk
[16:18] <JackYu> oh...
[16:19] <JackYu> didrocks, wait a moment
[16:21] <JackYu> didrocks, I got this error: bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(chroot-78301392:///%2Bbranch/ubuntu-kylin-sso-client/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
[16:21] <didrocks> JackYu: you stopped a bzr push I guess
[16:22] <didrocks> you need to break the lock
[16:22] <didrocks> JackYu: bzr break-lock lp:ubuntu-kylin-sso-client
[16:22] <JackYu> OK, thanks.
[16:22] <didrocks> then, if it's your lock, answer yes and bzr push again
[16:22] <Laney> I think not
[16:22] <Laney> from that URL it looks like the branch is owned by someone else
[16:23] <Laney> only the owner can push to it, assuming that ~luolei is a person and not a team
[16:23] <didrocks> oh right
[16:23] <didrocks> https://code.launchpad.net/~luolei/ubuntu-kylin-sso-client/trunk
[16:23] <didrocks> it's not a team
[16:23] <didrocks> JackYu: ^
[16:23] <JackYu> Oh...
[16:24] <didrocks> meanwhile, push to your namespace
[16:24] <Laney> you could do bzr push lp:~ubuntukylin-members/ubuntu-kylin-sso-client/trunk
[16:24] <Laney> and switch the trunk branch of that project to point to this team one
[16:24] <didrocks> and I'll push the package from it
[16:24] <Laney> that seems sensible to me
[16:24] <didrocks> yeah
[16:24] <JackYu> OK
[16:25] <JackYu> You both are smart guys:)
[16:25] <JackYu> pushing
[16:25] <Laney> too much time clicking in launchpad over the years
[16:26] <JackYu> lol:)
[16:27] <didrocks> JackYu: the line too long in debian/control is actually " Qt frontend to be used by the desktop service to sign into Ubuntu Kylin services
[16:27] <didrocks> "
[16:27] <didrocks> you removed the line after :)
[16:29] <didrocks> all the rest is fine (for reference, you normally reference launchpad bugs with LP: #bugnumber, but it's not important in that case as the bug can't be closed automatically until the package is in ubuntu
[16:29] <didrocks> JackYu: want me to fix debian/control and push it somewhere?
[16:29] <didrocks> will be quicker
[16:29] <JackYu> didrocks, that's very nice
[16:29] <JackYu> please:)
[16:31] <didrocks> JackYu: yw! you can pull from there: lp:~didrocks/ubuntu-kylin-sso-client/fix-description-wrapping
[16:31] <didrocks> JackYu: uploading it for you now and NEWing
[16:31] <didrocks> W: ubuntu-kylin-sso-client source: missing-runtime-test-file ./run-tests
[16:31]  * didrocks trusts Laney then
[16:31] <didrocks> It will be all your fault dude! :)
[16:31] <Laney> me?
[16:32] <JackYu> didrocks, thanks. I will pull back now.
[16:32] <Laney> you could try running the tests!
[16:32] <JackYu> Laney, lol...
[16:32] <didrocks> Laney: in case the directory trick doesn't work :)
[16:32] <Laney> it's okay, I'll be far away by the time we find that out
[16:32] <Laney> on the beach sipping cocktails
[16:32] <didrocks> Laney: ahah :)
[16:33] <didrocks> JackYu: ok, I'll ping you on #ubuntu-release FYI with the NEWing and source NEW :)
[16:33] <didrocks> and then bin NEW
[16:35]  * didrocks links downstream and upstream project meanwhile
[16:35] <didrocks> hum, building starts in 17 minutes
[16:35] <didrocks> seems the builders are busy
[16:36] <didrocks> seb128: in case I'm not around anymore once ubuntu-kylin-sso-client binary packages are built, mind binNEWing them? I've already reviewed with a local build and I +1.
[16:36] <Laney> looks like a kde flood
[16:36] <didrocks> JackYu: FYI ^
[16:36] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, seems so :p
[16:37] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[16:37] <didrocks> thanks seb128!
[16:38] <seb128> yw!
[17:11] <willcooke> EOD, tata
[17:15] <tsdgeos> seb128: kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ubuntu-system-settings/update_pot/+merge/235497
[17:15] <seb128> tsdgeos, we don't do mps for pot update, we just commit to trunk
[17:15] <tsdgeos> i tried
[17:16] <tsdgeos> i have no power
[17:16] <tsdgeos> so you can do it
[17:16] <tsdgeos> maybe
[17:16] <tsdgeos> or approve my mp :D
[17:16] <seb128> well, approving your mp sure
[17:16] <seb128> but that's not going to make that change land
[17:16] <tsdgeos> right
[17:16] <tsdgeos> seb128: so then you can do it or give me moar powers :D
[17:17] <seb128> you want to be added to the team?
[17:17] <tsdgeos> not really, i just want stuff to be translatable
[17:17] <seb128> I'm fine doing it, more reviewers for us, it's always good
[17:17] <tsdgeos> you get to choose how we make it happen :)
[17:17] <seb128> we all do
[17:17] <seb128> but those manual pot updates suck
[17:17] <tsdgeos> agreed
[17:17] <tsdgeos> i've complained to about everyone i could
[17:17] <tsdgeos> probbly not you
[17:18] <seb128> complaining is not providing a solution though
[17:18] <tsdgeos> :D
[17:18] <seb128> tsdgeos, added you to the settings team, feel free to commit
[17:18] <seb128> or to push rather
[17:19] <tsdgeos> seb128: as i've said to lots of people we have a solution that works in KDE land, and we're a bunch of random non paid hackers, if we don't have a solution in canonical is because noone seems to think it's important, not because it's hard
[17:19] <seb128> tsdgeos, we have a solution for years on the Ubuntu side
[17:19] <tsdgeos> doesn't seem to be working ^_^
[17:19] <tsdgeos> pushed
[17:20] <seb128> the Ubuntu solution is working
[17:20] <seb128> it's just that it doesn't work for clicks
[17:20] <seb128> so people decided to translate the upstream components and not the Ubuntu package
[17:20] <seb128> thanks
[17:21] <tsdgeos> yw :)
[17:21] <seb128> also KDE has an easier job (as does GNOME)
[17:22] <seb128> they probably have consistant build tools accross their components
[17:22] <tsdgeos> true, but we don't use the build system to generate the .pot files so that's a non issue
[17:22] <seb128> e.g you have a standard way to update the pot
[17:22] <seb128> well, you probably use standard tools though
[17:22] <seb128> like intltool
[17:22] <seb128> or whatever qt is using
[17:22] <tsdgeos> yep, have a Messages.sh file somewhere that does the work
[17:23] <tsdgeos> daemon will find it, run it and be done with it
[17:23] <seb128> if everything was using intltool it would be easy
[17:23] <seb128> we could call intltool-update automatically
[17:24] <tsdgeos> anyhow, got things to do
[17:24]  * tsdgeos waves
[18:16] <happyaron> seb128: can you also binNEW ubuntukylin-wallpapers-utopic after it's built?
[18:17] <kodiak11> Is there a quick guide on customizing / making the most use of Unity for new users to Unity but obviously not to Linux?  I'm coming from the XFCE world and trying to give Unity a fair shake.
[18:18] <sarnold> kodiak11: hold down the windows key and you'll get a cheatsheet dialog box
[18:19] <kodiak11> so that's how to get the damn thing back lol
[18:20] <kodiak11> I X'd it on the first boot and was like I'll look later...
[18:20] <sarnold> hehe
[18:28] <seb128> happyaron, sure
[18:29] <happyaron> seb128: thanks, and btw both wallpapers and sso client are NEW now, :)
[18:29] <seb128> k
[18:29] <seb128> yw!
[19:09] <seb128> happyaron, NEWed
[19:10] <happyaron> yea!
[19:10] <happyaron> time for bed..
[19:14] <seb128> happyaron, night


[12:37] <sakrecoer[m]> <higg "I just installed... Im not seein"> Most of the apps you'll "need" for multimedia production should already be installed. However there should be a GUI app source in there. I switched to KDE so I'm not sure what it's called in xfce anymore. Search your app menu for "application" as it's not really a "store". Developers of your favorite app often and gladely take your donations through their own channels,
[12:37] <sakrecoer[m]> though.
[12:41] <sakrecoer[m]> Yesterday I made a live DJ-set for a virtual graduation party, and I'm happy to report that despite mixxx broadcasting being currently broken, BUTT integrated perfectly.
[12:43] <sakrecoer[m]> Weird thing to do. But very fun. Basically socialising happened in a video conf app. And sound went over icecast2. (Sound of most video conf apps is decent enough for voice but definitely not for music. And if someone takes the word, it will cut the djs input)
[19:23] <wangdoodle> Hey, I'm working on a small script that disables stuff I don't need while recording. See here, underExample script to disable resource-intensive daemons, services and processes, https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration (also pasted the important parts here https://pastebin.com/rGUKbe2W ) and it looks like my processes are different.  Can you point me towards something that'll help me find the ubuntu
[19:23] <wangdoodle> processes I need to set here?
[19:25] <wangdoodle> specifically, my NIC and wireless drivers appear to be different. Also not sure about the video/webcam drivers and whatever a parallel port is.  The bluetooth and cups entries seem to work fine.
[19:26] <wangdoodle> I would LOVE an example script from someone running ubuntustudio where they disable unnessary things when the lowlatency kernal is running.
[19:27] <Eickmeyer> wangdoodle: You don't need ANY of that with Ubuntu Studio or by using Ubuntu Studio installer. That entire article doesn't apply because we've already done it for the user.
[19:28] <Eickmeyer> Moreover, we don't support compiling kernels, so you're on your own there.
[19:28] <Eickmeyer> !rt | wangdoodle: Moreover, heed this warning
[19:29] <Eickmeyer> Read that article why RT kernels are BAD.
[19:29] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer | wangdoodle
[19:30] <Eickmeyer> TL;DR: I am not going to support helping someone do something that I (and others) have already done for them.
[19:31] <wangdoodle> Funny. I did notice that some of these optimizations were already done in ububntu studio, which I have installed, along with the lowlatency kernel, not realtime.
[19:32] <wangdoodle> But, things like networking and printer stuff and plex and apache need to be stopped, it seems.
[19:32] <wangdoodle> Ubuntustudio doesn't do that does it?
[19:34] <Eickmeyer> No, that's overkill. At most, wifi and bluetooth. Ubuntu Studio's goal is to be a full-fledged creativity workstation, not an audio appliance.
[19:35] <Eickmeyer> Audio is simply one of our areas, but that's a part, not the whole picture.
[19:36] <wangdoodle> I noticed that I could run Ardour with better settings when plex wasn't installed. I also think apache got installed and is running. Then when I get working I'll have Java and Virtualbox going so.  I think I need a way to disable all this when recording audio.
[19:37] <Eickmeyer> We don't install apache by default, nor virtualbox, So, disabling any of that is on you if you installed it.
[19:38] <wangdoodle> OMG, of course. But, if I can't ask how to disable the usual stuff, I can't adapt it to disable what I need to.
[19:39] <wangdoodle> Someone at the kubuntu channel suggested I ask you guys since you may have similar needs.  But, I get attitude.
[19:39] <Eickmeyer> That's a discussion for #ubuntu. Apache, virtualbox, and what-not is completely out of our scope.
[19:40] <Eickmeyer> What you need to do is disable services, and we simply are not experts in web servers and things like that here.
[19:41] <Eickmeyer> I saw the discussion, and all you mentioned there was realtime processes. You didn't mention apache or anything like that there.
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> wangdoodle: I'm a volunteer, and while I am in charge of Ubuntu Studio, I'm not an expert at everything.
[19:42] <wangdoodle> I guess I wasn't here to ask an ubuntustudio employee about it, but more of a daily user. Sorry, I'll look elsewhere. (I mentioned the part about needing to ask how to do the usual disables to adapt them to my needs.
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> There's no such thing as an Ubuntu Studio employee. Everyone on the project is volunteer.
[19:43] <Eickmeyer> Nobody is getting paid to do this.
[19:43] <wangdoodle> volunteers should never have a bad attitude. you must have it rough. my heart goes out to you. best wishes
[19:43] <Eickmeyer> We DO have to draw the line on what we support. I don't have a bad attiude, and I"m sorry you perceive it as such. I'm just giving you facts.
[21:20] <ubuntu-studio> Eickmeyer: I don't know how, but pulseaudio or someone messing around with gain/volume-settings done messed up. Just tried a live-version of 19.10, and it's back to normal. If I crank the audio-level up to 120% I get very much the same kind of distorted noise that I get on 100% in Ubuntu Studio 20.04
[21:21] <Eickmeyer> ubuntu-studio: I'm willing to bet it's a change in the xfce4 pulseaudio plugin. Just run it at 80% and it should be rougly close to 100%. Shouldn't affect your ardour mix.
[21:22] <Eickmeyer> And... interesting nickname. :P
[21:22] <ubuntu-studio> Eickmeyer: it bothers me, so I'm reverting back to 19.10 for now. Haha yeah
[21:23] <ubuntu-studio> That'll tell you I'm surfing on a live-usb
[21:23] <Eickmeyer> Just FYI, it loses support in July. The volume issue is unlikely to get resolved, and there's no configuration we've done on our end.
[21:24] <Eickmeyer> 20.10 is a different desktop environment, so the issue might be resolved that way.
[21:24] <ubuntu-studio> Eickmeyer: once again thanks for all your help.. but I'll be very surprised if no one else reports this as a problem in the future. Yeah I know, I didn't really need to upgrade in the first place, I still know people who use ubuntu 10 lol
[21:24] <ubuntu-studio> Reboot,, brb
[21:33] <AppAraat[m]> TIL Behringer X-series mixers and the Allen & Heath iLive series mixers use RT Linux kernels.
[21:33] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: I am not surprised
[21:33] <OvenWerks> A & H mixers also use integer math
[21:34] <OvenWerks> (and multiple processors depending on the number of channels/effects required
[21:34] <OvenWerks> even the QU 32 has 4 separate processors.
[21:35] <OvenWerks> There are a numnber of people who do not think the iLive sounds as good as the older A & H alanog mixers
[21:36] <OvenWerks> I suspect that using Ints for the math has something to do with that, even comparing 48 to 64 bit int to 32 bit floats.
[21:36] <OvenWerks> I would take the 32 bit float every time.
[21:37] <OvenWerks> *analog
[21:38] <AppAraat[m]> huh, I thought all decent digital mixers were either 24bit or 32bit
[21:39] <OvenWerks> 24 bit ADC but 48 to 64 bit internal for math then back to 24 for output.
[21:39] <OvenWerks> with int math you have to add 1 bit for every channel you add to the mix
[21:40] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: actually, my thought would be 24 bit ADC convert to 32 bit float for math, output 16 bit...
[21:41] <OvenWerks> but it would never sell without 24 bit output too :)
[21:41] <AppAraat[m]> why would you need to have higher bitrate internally if you're recording 24bit ?
[21:41] <AppAraat[m]> Is it because every channel is recorded at 24bit?
[21:42] <AppAraat[m]> (and is thus required for digital summing)
[21:42] <OvenWerks> if two channels are at a digital 1 (full scale) at a the point they are mixed together, that eqals 2
[21:42] <OvenWerks> which needs one more bit
[21:43] <OvenWerks> add another channel (maybe two more channels?) add another bit
[21:43] <AppAraat[m]> ah right, makes sense
[21:43] <OvenWerks> with 32 bit float (which is really the same resolution as 24 bit int) that is not needed
[21:44] <OvenWerks> the exponant will always take care of that
[21:46] <OvenWerks> the reality is that even 16 bit is over kill for reproducing anything we can hear, so that is the greatest we need to use for playback but for recording it is nice to be able to record 20 or more dB down from FS to ensure no clipping while still having 16bit resolution.
[21:48] <OvenWerks> My understanding is that the X32 uses 32 bit float internally
[22:09] <shas-0[m]> <shas-0[m] "Meh, Wifi off, bluetooth off sti"> A reinstall of my original ISO seems to have got rid of the over runs, might be an update that  screws it up !
[22:12] <OvenWerks> goody
[22:13] <OvenWerks> I have not noticed anything like that here... but I don't have wifi, BT or a USB audio device...
[22:16] <OvenWerks> shas-0[m]: every time you restart may make a difference, but an update may too in how irqs are allocated as in which order
[22:17] <OvenWerks> I found telling my bios _not_ to assign irqs and let the kernel do that instead seemed to result in better choices
[22:36] <OvenWerks> The main thing I have found worth turning off is Cron. Cron is run at a low priority, but... if part of what it runs is apt update, there are diskwrites, and network transfers that are atomic.


[04:53] <bikerz> hi all
[11:16] <xaccrocheur> Hello
[11:17] <xaccrocheur> Does anyone know if it is currently possible to use ZASF as a (DSSI or LV2) plugin? (Latest Carla seems broken in latest qtractor (Ubuntu 14.04) so I can't use that to get to it) :(
[11:18] <xaccrocheur> I tried the "zynadd" package (can't fin the sources/repo) w/o any luck too
[11:20] <cfhowlett> xaccrocheur, apt-cache show zynn*   will list the packages
[22:24] <spawn> hello?
[22:24] <Guest37664> olá?
[22:25] <Guest37664> algue?
[22:25] <Guest37664> alguem*
[22:25] <Guest37664> on?
[22:26] <Unit193> !br


[12:44] <misko_> Had fun yesterday with GtkPopover as a xfce panel plugin... :)
[12:44] <misko_>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXZzwDDQlZ8
[12:46] <misko_> That is going to be hard to position correctly :)
[12:52] <jphilips> misko_: nice. the positioning is a bit off though
[12:52] <jphilips> i had filed a number of tooltip bugs i found in the panel. is this something you have knowledge about?
[12:54] <jphilips> https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/-/issues?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=opened&author_username=philipzae&search=tooltip
[13:15] <misko_> jphilips well, it's a progress, last week I thought it is impossible to have a standalone popover without a transparent window
[13:16] <misko_> @jphilips There is not much it can be done with tooltips
[13:17] <misko_> it's a problem with gtk
[13:18] <brainwash> gtk/gnome devs have reworked tooltips in gtk4 I think
[13:19] <brainwash> maybe popovers too
[13:22] <misko_> Didn't see gtk4 yet
[13:23] <misko_> but I saw that someone wants to add gtk3 and gtk4 stuff to gtk2
[13:24] <misko_> https://github.com/thesquash/stlwrt
[13:30] <brainwash> the author claims that it's not "vaporware", but it certainly looks like "vaporware"
[22:36] <jphilips> bluesabre: when you get a chance, i have some MR on github for you to look over :D


[02:42] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[09:47] <ice9> when a fix is commit on launchpad, how long it takes to get the package ready in the repo for upgrade?
[09:50] <lotuspsychje> usualy not too long ice9
[09:50] <lotuspsychje> ice9: you got a bug ID in mind?
[09:54] <ice9> lotuspsychje, I'm asking in general
[09:55] <lotuspsychje> allrighty