[06:38] <mborzecki> morning
[07:21] <zyga> good morning
[07:26] <mborzecki> zyga:  hey
[07:26] <zyga> :-)
[07:26] <zyga> any crazy purchases?
[07:27]  * zyga starts the day with reviews
[07:35] <mborzecki> zyga: nope, not falling for the black friday bs with fake discounts around here
[07:35] <zyga> mborzecki: I got a real discount, I think
[07:36] <zyga> mborzecki: got a monitor at 2/3 the price (and I did check regular price as well as manufacturer recommended retail price0
[07:36] <mborzecki> zyga: what display did you buy?
[07:36] <zyga> samsung space 27" 144Hz VA 2K panel
[07:40] <mborzecki> zyga: nice
[08:01] <pstolowski> morning
[08:04] <zyga> hey pstolowski
[08:04] <zyga> pstolowski: do you have that dock already?
[08:04] <zyga> mborzecki: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824#pullrequestreview-324890688
[08:04] <mup> PR #7824: snap/squashfs, osutil: verify files/dirs can be accessed by mksquashfs when building a snap <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824>
[08:05] <pstolowski> zyga: no, should arrive around Wed
[08:08] <mborzecki> zyga: thanks for the review
[08:08] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[08:29] <zyga> Modeenv
[08:29] <zyga> why not ModeEnv
[08:34] <zyga> brb
[08:40] <sdhd-sascha> hi, good morning
[09:04]  * zyga turned up heating
[09:04] <zyga> I have 15C in the office now
[09:13] <mborzecki> zyga: it's late atumn after all
[09:16] <zyga> and
[09:17] <zyga> the office has poor insulation :)
[09:17] <zyga> thinner walls, cold garage below
[09:17] <zyga> I would love to make it better one day, even if I have to insulate the celling downstairs
[09:18] <mborzecki> zyga: heh walk() does not follow symlinks, filepath.Walk("/snap/core/current"..), works differently that filepath.Walk("/snap/core/current/")
[09:18] <zyga> yeah :)
[09:18] <zyga> but it's just the outer initial symlink that matters to us
[09:18] <zyga> we don't want to follow symlinks inside, right?
[09:20] <tomwardill> hi, store team here. Store is currently down, it's being looked at.
[09:20]  * zyga hugs tomwardill
[09:20] <zyga> thank you and good luck
[09:20]  * tomwardill is mostly drinking coffee and watching people far more competent than I am, but I'll pass the sentiments on :)
[09:21] <mborzecki> zyga: anyways, refactored to use walk now, before i readdin'ing manually in order to faccessat, since that doesn't work bc of osx, might as well just use walk
[09:21] <zyga> mborzecki: macos has some innovation in the case of fstat-like functions
[09:22] <zyga> mborzecki: as well as in the case of "readdir" like functions
[09:22] <zyga> so the old syscalls are gone now
[09:22] <zyga> mborzecki: fstat has been replaced by something that is like statx but x10 more complex with lots of extra features and things one can ask about
[09:22] <zyga> mborzecki: and readdir is more like "search" now
[09:22] <Chipaca> tomwardill: from here it looked like a lot more than just the store was down :)
[09:22] <zyga> mborzecki: I think there's still the old readdir but it's deprecated and returns a subset of data now
[09:23] <tomwardill> Chipaca: PS4.5 is out
[09:23] <zyga> oouch!
[09:23] <Chipaca> tomwardill: is the internal irc on that?
[09:23] <tomwardill> yes
[09:23] <Chipaca> ah, nice
[09:23] <tomwardill> or at least, behind the same switch
[09:23] <Chipaca> ah
[09:23] <tomwardill> irc has just come back for me btw
[09:23] <zyga> will PS5 run on a xmas-lot of playstation 5 boxes? :)
[09:23] <Chipaca> i thought it ran on a 486 unde elmo's desk :-p
[09:23] <zyga> now powering AI/ML workloads ;)
[09:24] <zyga> haha
[09:28] <mborzecki> updated #7824
[09:28] <mup> PR #7824: snap/squashfs, osutil: verify files/dirs can be accessed by mksquashfs when building a snap <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824>
[09:31] <Chipaca> mborzecki: why not do those checks from snap/pack's loadAndValidate?
[09:32] <Chipaca> mborzecki: as part of ValidateContainer for ex
[09:33] <Chipaca> mborzecki: that way you still get the error in 'snap pack', but snapcraft gets to warn about it early
[09:33] <mborzecki> Chipaca: because it may be intentional to have the path set to 0000 or otherwise unreadable by the user
[09:33] <mborzecki> Chipaca: iirc that code checks that snap own meta and files are accessible
[09:33] <mborzecki> s/accessible/present/
[09:33] <zyga> mborzecki: do you want to check the return value of Walk itself?
[09:35] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, clearly need another coffee
[09:37] <mborzecki> Chipaca: what i mean is that, current uid being unable to pack the snap doesn't mean it's invalid
[09:37] <zyga> mborzecki: one more question https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824/files#r352494084
[09:37] <mup> PR #7824: snap/squashfs, osutil: verify files/dirs can be accessed by mksquashfs when building a snap <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824>
[09:37] <Chipaca> mborzecki: right
[09:37] <zyga> Chipaca: that's true but it also means the current uid won't be able to pack it :)
[09:37] <zyga> and that's worth checking
[09:38] <zyga> mborzecki: added two comments and resuming other reviews
[09:38] <zyga> brb
[09:41] <mborzecki> zyga: i'm all for using a smarted syscall than access, but the only alternative is trying to open that location, checking permission bits is too simple
[09:41] <zyga> mborzecki: but access is doing just permission check
[09:42] <zyga> it doesn't do anything else, does it?
[09:42] <zyga> I guess we could just open and try, that's portable and reliable
[09:42] <mborzecki> heh, so maybe we should just open
[09:46] <abeato> morning! we are noticing that some times it takes a lot of time to get a snap installed due to snapd wanting random numbers and the rng not being initialized yet
[09:46] <abeato> which is the rationale for snapd needing random numbers when installing a snap¿
[09:46] <abeato> ?
[09:46] <zyga> abeato: good morning, is this on a vm?
[09:46] <zyga> abeato: that's unclear, I cannot think of any
[09:46] <abeato> no, on real HW
[09:47] <zyga> abeato: we generate some random numbers for snap cookies
[09:47] <zyga> perhaps that's that
[09:47] <abeato> on the Jetson Xavier, and on other devices on other prokects
[09:48] <zyga> is there a hardware random number generator on the xavier?
[09:48] <zyga> I wonder if it's just snaps that are affected
[09:48] <zyga> or generally software waiting and waiting
[09:49] <abeato> there is a trng, yes, but I think that due to a kernel bug the rng gets ~5 minutes to get initialized
[09:50] <abeato> so, on one hand this is a kernel problem, but on the other hand I do not think it makes much sense that snapd has to block on urandom to be initialized
[09:50] <abeato> the main issue is that we are seeing this on many deviced, not just one
[09:50] <zyga> abeato: right, I understand that
[09:50] <zyga> I think we investigated that once before
[09:51] <zyga> but it's lots of other parts of the stack that want entrop
[09:51] <zyga> *entropy
[09:51] <zyga> and us being super careful won't fix the general "it's stuck" feel
[09:51] <zyga> I think systemd is in the same boat
[09:51] <zyga> we don't depend on randomness in an unreasonable way, I think, we could do another analysis to check if anything new was added by accident
[09:52] <abeato> hm, well, systemd starts, not sure if there is much delay there
[09:52] <abeato> for FDE you would get things blocked too, sure
[10:03] <tomwardill> store update: most of the store should be back, SSO is still down
[10:27] <sdhd-sascha> What is the best way to strace/ltrace or debug an application inside a snap? Sway starts, Xwayland and Xwayland runs xkbcomp... And/Or does a wayland snap need X support ?
[10:29] <zyga> sdhd-sascha: there's snap run --strace
[10:29] <zyga> but it's sometimes a little broken
[10:29] <zyga> and AFAIK we also have snap run --gdb
[10:30] <zyga> as for Xwayland -- I don't know
[10:30] <sdhd-sascha> zyga: yes, i saw a file in the source with the name strace. But didn't have the time to inspect ... So it just ask
[10:31] <sdhd-sascha> Well, sway depends on dmenu for launching application. It's X11.
[10:31] <sdhd-sascha> Then the most GDK/GTK applications are not compiled with wayland or prefer X11.
[10:32] <sdhd-sascha> I read on a debian changelog, that there are problems with the clipboard between X11 and wayland. So they prefer to start the application as X, if available.
[10:33] <sdhd-sascha> Now i wonder, what the usecase of wayland inside a snap is. If kiosk with custom application, then no X11 is needed. But if it's a full desktop, then we need Xwayland support.
[10:33] <sdhd-sascha> Weston is very nice here. It does not depend on external Xwayland but has similar problems with xkbcomp currently
[10:35] <zyga> I'm sorry I just don't know enough about the desktop stack to give useful advice
[10:36] <zyga> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7129 needs a second review
[10:36] <sdhd-sascha> zyga: it's ok. my opinion is, i will make it run. After that i need help to implement some plugs for common GUI-Frameworks
[10:36] <zyga> it's very old by now
[10:36] <mup> PR #7129: userd: allow setting default-url-scheme-handler <Created by jwheare> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7129>
[10:49] <zyga> more reviews :)
[10:56] <zyga> r-e-v-i-e-w-s :)
[11:10] <mborzecki> zyga: can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7743 ?
[11:10] <mup> PR #7743: snap-bootstrap: force partition table operations <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7743>
[11:10] <zyga> sure, just a moment
[11:10] <zyga> brb
[11:19] <zyga> reading a longer test
[11:19] <zyga> I should take a swap day
[11:19] <zyga> need to burn it
[11:19] <zyga> before xmas
[11:40] <zyga> mborzecki: looking now
[11:46] <zyga> mborzecki: hmm
[11:46] <zyga> mborzecki: somewhat worried
[11:46] <zyga> mborzecki: so the thing that we're operating on is mounted, right?
[11:46] <zyga> because we've booted
[11:46] <zyga> and now we're changing partitions b
[11:46] <zyga> are all partitions that we are changing unmounted?
[11:49] <mborzecki> zyga: afaiu this ties into the uc20 setup process, i'm slightly concerned about it but i suppose it has been thought through
[11:49] <zyga> I'm concerned and not equally optimistic
[11:50] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, did you look through the spec?
[11:50] <zyga> rapidly
[11:50] <zyga> I should read it again
[12:30] <zyga> re
[12:30] <zyga> hey cmatsuoka
[12:31] <cmatsuoka> zyga: hi
[12:31] <cmatsuoka> zyga: I'm also reading sfdisk.c
[12:33] <cmatsuoka> zyga: it seems that we could use --no-reread instead of --force, and read the PT afterwards (which we already do)
[12:34] <cmatsuoka> zyga: but if we could trigger the partition device node creation in a different way, then this second PT update wouldn't be necessary anymore
[12:35] <cmatsuoka> zyga: I'm completely for understanding exactly what's happening there because I feel things are a bit out of control there
[12:36] <zyga> we are in agreement
[12:37] <cmatsuoka> so one unknown here is: why partx is necessary to trigger node creation for newly created partitions? sfdisk itself and blockdev --rereadpt won't do that
[12:41] <zyga> cmatsuoka: I'm checking what --force does in practice
[12:41] <zyga> one thing is is doing is fdisk_device_is_used check gets ignored
[12:41] <zyga> let's see what that does
[12:42] <cmatsuoka> zyga: yeah, I'm exactly there now
[12:43] <zyga> hmm
[12:43] <zyga> one ioctl :)
[12:43] <zyga> let's see what that is
[12:43] <cmatsuoka> zyga: it's a bit disturbing that all those utilities seem to use a certain amount of guesswork ("it seems that the kernel...", "I think this...", "I don't know why, but...")
[12:43] <zyga> yeah
[12:44] <zyga> linux plumbing layer is full of traps
[12:44] <zyga> it's not nice in many ways
[12:44] <zyga> (not that others are)
[12:44] <zyga> heh
[12:44] <zyga> manual pages are silent
[12:44] <zyga> looking at the kernel
[12:44] <zyga> that's the only relief
[12:44] <zyga> at the end of the day
[12:44] <zyga> you just read and know
[12:47] <zyga> I'm curious to know what is ABBA deadlock now
[12:47] <cmatsuoka> humm, I'll verify this, but I'm suspecting the node creation trigger happens with BLKPG but not with BLKRRPART
[12:47] <zyga> in initramfs what is mounted on /dev?
[12:48] <cmatsuoka> devtmpfs I guess? not sure
[12:48] <zyga> do you know what populates it?
[12:49] <zyga> is it kernel itself or kernel + udev or udev from kernel events?
[12:49] <cmatsuoka> I don't know. I can check there but I'm not in bootable state right now
[12:50] <cmatsuoka> But I think we must see that in the new initramfs xnox just built
[12:51] <cmatsuoka> which may be different compared to the old ones
[12:51] <cmatsuoka> xnox: you there?
[12:54] <zyga> reading the kernel
[12:54] <zyga> I start to see what happens
[12:55] <cmatsuoka> zyga: the ABBA deadlock happens when two threads get two locks and then they try to get each other's locks
[12:55] <cmatsuoka> if I remember correctly
[12:55] <zyga> ah
[12:55] <zyga> I see
[12:55] <zyga> I thought it's a weird abba reference
[12:55] <zyga> it's just A B B A, as in thread names
[12:55] <zyga> :D
[12:56] <cmatsuoka> ah yes, threads A and B :D
[13:00] <cmatsuoka> zyga: hey wait wait, you said --force will skip the BLKRRPART ioctl?
[13:01] <cmatsuoka> (and then the partition table won't be updated anyway?)
[13:04] <cmatsuoka> hm, not exactly, but it seems to me that the ioctl() call is always failing and --force is just masking that
[13:05] <cmatsuoka> that would explain everything except why the ioctl call fails
[13:05] <zyga> yes
[13:05] <zyga> force is igoring that
[13:05] <zyga> the ioctl always runs
[13:06] <zyga> I'm reading the kernel side to see when it fails
[13:06] <zyga> (I also have a cold, sorry for the frequent interrupts when I'm away)
[13:06] <cmatsuoka> so I think it's failing because seed is mounted, and --force just makes it ignore the fact that the ioctl failed
[13:07] <cmatsuoka> so --no-reread is more appropriate here, it seems
[13:07] <zyga> what is the error we are getting in sfdisk again
[13:08] <zyga> oh boy
[13:08] <cmatsuoka> zyga: this one: https://github.com/karelzak/util-linux/blob/master/disk-utils/sfdisk.c#L1696
[13:08] <zyga> it's only logged
[13:08] <zyga> yeah but are we getting EINVAL, E...what?
[13:09] <cmatsuoka> zyga: I don't know, I'll have to run it again to be sure
[13:09] <zyga> there's a way to get more output
[13:09] <zyga> there's a DBG macro
[13:09] <zyga> just need to figure out how to enable it
[13:13] <mborzecki> zyga: LIBFDISK_DEBUG=all ?
[13:13] <zyga> thank you!
[13:17] <cmatsuoka> ok, building an instrumented image
[13:18] <zyga> cmatsuoka: this is an interesting page https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/141476/forced-reread-of-partition-table-difference-between-blkrrpart-and-blkpg-ioctl
[13:19] <cmatsuoka> zyga: we can check this in the kernel, but maybe BLKRRPART fails when partitions are mounted and BLKPG doesn't?
[13:20] <zyga> yeah
[13:20] <zyga> I think so
[13:20] <cmatsuoka> so partx and possibly partprobe would work while sfdisk and blockdev fail
[13:20] <cmatsuoka> that would explain everything
[13:39] <cmatsuoka> zyga: https://pasteboard.co/IJonVQV.png
[13:39] <zyga> thanks!
[13:40] <zyga> EBUSY
[13:40] <cmatsuoka> yep
[13:40] <zyga> just three places where that is returned
[13:40] <zyga> looking
[13:41] <zyga> or just a few
[13:56] <zyga> cmatsuoka: when we partition the disk, what's the state of the existing partitions
[13:57] <zyga> cmatsuoka: is the disk largely unpartitioned
[13:57] <zyga> cmatsuoka: and we append?
[13:57] <zyga> I read the code and I think the change is "safe"
[13:57] <cmatsuoka> zyga: we have the system-seed partition there, which is also our boot partition
[13:57] <zyga> in this sense
[13:57] <zyga> brb, see you at the standup
[14:07] <sdhd-sascha> hey, sorry for this "noob" question. But where is the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR set on login ? I grep'ed the whole /etc. Took a look at /etc/pam.d/.
[14:07] <sdhd-sascha> I wonder why it was set on "ssh" and "ttyX", but not on "sudo su"
[14:08] <Chipaca> cmatsuoka: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0
[14:09] <sdhd-sascha> oh, i think it's inside systemd
[14:12] <zyga> sdhd-sascha: it's complex
[14:12] <zyga> sdhd-sascha: it's set by pam AFAIK but I don't know enough to tell you and point to a file where this happens
[14:12] <cmatsuoka> Chipaca: :D
[14:13] <sdhd-sascha> zyga: currently i only need to trigger the environment, so i can call "weston-launch" as root
[14:13] <sdhd-sascha> i could also set it manually..
[14:15] <sdhd-sascha> zyga: maybe i should look, howto increase the logging level of systemd ;-)
[14:23] <mborzecki> zyga: cmatsuoka: imo that delay is needed because partitions would show up/go away asynchronously
[14:24] <zyga> yeah
[14:24] <zyga> it's an event
[14:24] <zyga> we could instead look for them on disk
[14:24] <zyga> that would be less racy
[14:24] <zyga> if we know we expect /dev/xxx2
[14:24] <mborzecki> zyga: cmatsuoka: and then udev is another async bit that should get some extra delay if you want to use /dev/disk/by-{name,label,uuid}..
[14:25] <zyga> Chipaca: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHoCeqlU2g8 (though it's mostly in Polish)
[14:25] <zyga> but it's fun ;)
[14:25] <cmatsuoka> mborzecki, zyga: yeah, I remember this node creation race that crashed the kernel back in the spike days
[14:26] <zyga> Chipaca: skip to 1;30
[14:31] <zyga> cmatsuoka: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7743#issuecomment-560420462
[14:31] <mup> PR #7743: snap-bootstrap: force partition table operations <UC20> <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7743>
[14:31] <cmatsuoka> Chipaca: bah, no Diggy Diggy Hole t-shirts for me
[14:31] <cmatsuoka> Chipaca: hmm, maybe the 12-14 years size could fit?
[14:33] <Chipaca> cmatsuoka: the t-shirt link is a 404 from here so count yourself lucky (?)
[14:34] <cmatsuoka> Chipaca: if you go to the store main page and search from there you'll find a kids size t-shirt
[14:34] <Chipaca> cmatsuoka: i'm so sorry
[14:34]  * cmatsuoka sings Down and down into the deep, who knows what we'll find beneath?
[14:36]  * Chipaca updates cmatsuoka's race card to 'dwarf'
[14:37] <cmatsuoka> actually there's one in the video that looks a lot like our friend zygmunt
[14:42] <zyga> cmatsuoka: is my comment sensible?
[14:43] <zyga> cmatsuoka: note, alternatively --no-reread is okay as well, as it has the equivalent effect
[14:43] <mborzecki> off to pick up the kids
[14:45] <cmatsuoka> zyga: I think --no-reread would be a more conservative approach because it has a well-defined meaning and maybe what --force does could change in future versions of the utility. In practice, now, both would have the same effect
[14:45] <zyga> I agree
[14:45] <cmatsuoka> Ok, I'll prepare a patch with --no-reread and update the comments
[14:46] <zyga> Thanks!
[14:46] <cmatsuoka> thank you zyga for digging into this
[14:47] <zyga> mborzecki: thanks for looking at --explain,
[14:48] <zyga> mborzecki: the marker, did you mean to use some kind prefix for each line
[14:48] <zyga> mborzecki: or something else?
[14:48] <cmatsuoka> Chipaca: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU
[14:53]  * zyga switches gears to https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7815
[14:53] <mup> PR #7815: tests: reduce the complexity of the test-snapd-sh snap <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7815>
[15:04] <zyga> cachio: I pushed a small tweak there
[15:05] <cachio> zyga, thanks
[15:05] <cachio> I'll take a look to that PR
[15:09] <sdhd-sascha> Chipaca: :-D
[15:10]  * cachio lunch
[15:10] <Chipaca> cmatsuoka: mucho bettero
[15:12] <cachio> pstolowski, the hotplug test is failing here https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VbRsMH3Sjx/
[15:12] <cachio> pstolowski, not sure it is related to any change
[15:13] <cachio> done recently
[15:13] <cachio> but if fails twice and I can reproduce it
[15:14]  * ijohnson is all caught up on emails/backlog
[15:14] <pstolowski> cachio: weird, we haven't touched anything there. full log?
[15:14] <ijohnson> zyga: shall I review https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825 ? looks like it's ready for review?
[15:15] <mup> PR #7825: many: use transient scope for tracking apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825>
[15:16] <cachio> pstolowski, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fwm2MhW6bs/
[15:16] <cachio> pstolowski, the log is huge
[15:17] <cachio> pstolowski, it appears /dev/ttyUSB0 rwk,
[15:17] <zyga> dinner is coming up, everyone's home now
[15:17] <cachio> and we are trying to match "/dev/ttyUSB0 rw,"
[15:17] <zyga> cachio: I need to read only a small chunk of the diff before finishing my review but it's the most important one
[15:17] <zyga> I'll finish today for sure
[15:17] <cachio> zyga, thanks
[15:18] <pstolowski> cachio: aah, maybe we landed "+k" change, that would explain it
[15:18] <pstolowski> cachio: we planned to change serial port permissions
[15:21] <cachio> pstolowski, ahh
[15:21] <cachio> so  we should update the test in that case right?
[15:22] <cachio> pstolowski, I can do it after lunch
[15:22] <cachio> pstolowski, does it make sense?
[15:26]  * cachio lunch again
[15:34] <jdstrand> ijohnson: hey, you asked about '... (i.e. seccomp) and non-root owned "/"'
[15:34] <ijohnson> good morning jdstrand :-)
[15:34] <ijohnson> yes I did ask about that
[15:35] <ijohnson> do you want me to re-ask?
[15:35] <jdstrand> ijohnson: I see the question. you asked if I had time to chat. I didn't then but can now. what is up?>
[15:35] <ijohnson> ah right sorry I have forgotten what I sent
[15:36] <ijohnson> let me find the forum page for the full context
[15:36] <ijohnson> so here someone is trying to use snaps on azure pipelines: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/permissions-problem-using-snapcraft-in-azure-pipelines/13258
[15:36] <jdstrand> ijohnson: ok, I am going through irc backscroll first and not caaught up on email yet
[15:36] <ijohnson> jdstrand: what's weird is that on azure pipelines, "/" is not root-owned, and so snap-confine refuses to run
[15:38] <ijohnson> jdstrand: and looking through git history it seems that the reason snap-confine does the check for "/" and all elements of the path down to where we have seccomp compiled programs being root owned is to protect against someone putting bad bpf programs there and doing an escalation attack
[15:39] <ijohnson> jdstrand: so my question is if we can do anything about this case to loosen that requirement or enable some kind of flag to allow running snaps on azure pipelines like this
[15:39] <jdstrand> ijohnson: I've read the topic and you are right in why we are doing that. we are doing that for security reasons. I can't think of a legitimate reason why / is not owned by root.
[15:40] <ijohnson> yeah it's weird, but it does seem like a deliberate action, it doesn't seem like something someone would do on accident
[15:40] <jdstrand> ijohnson: I would like to understand why that is a legitimate use case. usually, there is a coding error somewhere in a maintainer script type thing that accidentally chowns /
[15:41] <jdstrand> ijohnson: chown vsts $TPYO/
[15:41] <jdstrand> ijohnson: there have been USNs to fix CVEs in deb packaging for this type of thing
[15:41] <ijohnson> ah yes I could see that happening
[15:42] <ijohnson> let me see if I can find a place we could file an issue to get more context from azure
[15:42] <zyga> jdstrand: it would be so funny if that was the case
[15:43] <zyga> jdstrand: "Q: can you fix your software not to check / owner"
[15:43] <zyga> jdstrand: "A: can you apply this patch not to chown / from maintainer script"
[15:43] <zyga> ;)
[15:43] <pstolowski> cachio: yes, thank you
[15:43] <jdstrand> zyga: yeah. well, ufw I think was the first thing to do this checking in Ubuntu anyway, and it found a CVE in hplip :)
[15:44] <zyga> jdstrand: haha
[15:44] <zyga> jdstrand: so it *is* good that we ask for root password to install that printer ;)
[15:44] <pstolowski> cachio: i've just verified, we now have "rwk" on serial port
[15:45] <jdstrand> zyga: people said: "jdstrand> your check is too strict. please fix". I was like, uhm, why does hplip own /? You realize it can now change anything underneath it, right?
[15:45] <mborzecki> zyga: i think something like `<< snap explain start >>\n`, `<< snap explain end >>\n` would be enough
[15:45] <jdstrand> zyga: heh
[15:45] <zyga> mborzecki: that was not part of the initial design but I'll play with it
[15:45] <zyga> it's an experiment after all :)
[15:45] <mborzecki> zyga: iirc kernel has some ------[ cut here ] ------------- markers for backtraces
[15:45] <zyga> mborzecki: ah, I se
[15:45] <zyga> it would be just printed twice
[15:45] <zyga> that's nice
[15:46] <zyga> I'm semi-afk
[15:46] <mborzecki> zyga: otherwise my feeling is that the output of the actual app and the one from explain could be easily confused
[15:46] <zyga> Lucy is roaming around the office
[15:46] <ijohnson> jdstrand: zyga: well I tried looking and without an azure account the best they can do to talk to us is to ask on the stack exchange :-/
[15:56] <jdstrand> ijohnson: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/permissions-problem-using-snapcraft-in-azure-pipelines/13258/13
[15:58] <jdstrand> ijohnson: I suspect one of the people asking for the change can use that when filing a bug with their azure account
[15:59] <ijohnson> jdstrand: ack yes that sounds fine, I did also ask on their stack exchange about it fwiw
[16:00] <jdstrand> cool, thanks
[16:00] <ijohnson> thanks jdstrand!
[16:36]  * Chipaca afk
[16:40] <jdstrand> ogra: thanks for the response re usb drive. I don't mind an sd card and am happy to do that, but it feels more correct to be able to boot off the usb directly. if that requires a blob from someone I don't know though, I prefer the approach you outlined :)
[17:32] <zyga> re
[17:33] <cachio> git push
[17:34] <zyga> git-clippy: where do you want to push today
[17:35] <pstolowski> :)
[17:36] <mup> PR snapd#7827 opened: tests: apply change on permissions to serial port on hotplug test <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7827>
[17:37] <pstolowski> +1
[17:37] <cachio> thanks
[17:38] <pstolowski> zyga: ^ can you look at it as well, trivial test update
[17:38] <cachio> I am going to the dentist now
[17:38] <zyga> yeah
[17:38] <cachio> I'll be back in 40 minutes
[17:38] <sergiusens> jdstrand: hey,maybe consider escaping the _ on https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/mpris-name-for-media-player-snap/14371/7
[17:38] <cachio> pstolowski, I'll try to merge it today
[17:38] <pstolowski> ijohnson was faster :)
[17:38] <ijohnson> :-)
[17:38] <cachio> ijohnson, pstolowski thanks guys
[17:39] <zyga> pstolowski: what happened that the permissions changed?
[17:39] <ijohnson> zyga: folks want to lock the serial-port, there are various forum topics about this
[17:39] <pstolowski> zyga: apparmor (kernel?) change at some point, jdstrand updated serial-port to grant locking permission as it was missing know, was implicit before
[17:40]  * ijohnson goes to look
[17:40] <zyga> aha
[17:40] <pstolowski> s/know/now/
[17:40] <zyga> kernel side changed or our side changed?
[17:40] <zyga> the patch looks good , I'm just wondering why it wasn't checked earlier and caused something to fail
[17:41] <pstolowski> zyga: afair it was an apparmor or kernel bug
[17:41] <pstolowski> zyga: but not ours
[17:41] <zyga> pstolowski: but do you know if "our" side has changed?
[17:41] <zyga> because it is clearly measuring snapd files
[17:41] <zyga> so it must have come from snapd patch
[17:41] <zyga> so ... why didn't this change happen in sync then?
[17:41] <pstolowski> zyga: yes, we added +k to serial.port.go
[17:41] <ijohnson> see https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/hotplug-doesnt-allow-access-like-a-gadget-slot-does/14090
[17:42] <zyga> was the test not executed?
[17:42] <pstolowski> zyga: because this spread test is run only on demand (nested execution)
[17:42] <zyga> ah
[17:42] <zyga> that was the thing I was after
[17:42] <ijohnson> zyga: the PR jdstrand submitted changing the policy is https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7779
[17:42] <mup> PR #7779: interfaces: misc updates for u2f-devices, browser-support, hardware-observe, et al <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7779>
[17:42] <zyga> approved
[17:42] <zyga> thanks!
[17:44] <ijohnson> hey zyga, I'm reviewing 7825, and am I right in thinking we have a race condition between when we unlock the lock in genericRefreshCheck() and when we check `if PIDs := knownPids[app.SecurityTag()]; len(PIDs) > 0 {` ?
[17:44]  * zyga looks
[17:44] <ijohnson> i.e. a snap process could launch in between those two things and knownPids would miss it
[17:44] <ijohnson> err s/miss/not contain/
[17:46] <zyga> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825/files#diff-6eeb1fdef37cbd9f8f731642102858e1R59
[17:46] <mup> PR #7825: many: use transient scope for tracking apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825>
[17:47] <zyga> if I understand your question correctly the answer is "yes" and also "but that's by design"
[17:47] <mup> PR snapcraft#2823 closed: xattrs: switch to python's os package for reading/writing xattrs <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2823>
[17:47] <zyga> we don't want to have precise information about which pid is or is not in that group
[17:47] <zyga> it's not that interesting really
[17:47] <zyga> we're only interested in the fact that a given security tag had a non-empty list
[17:49] <ijohnson> zyga: right, I understand we don't really care about individual pids, we just want to know if the set of pids is empty or not. what I'm concerned about is if we unlock that lock after computing the set, a new snap process could launch while we are doing other things in that genericRefreshCheck() function that we wouldn't have allowed to launch if we held the lock longer
[17:49] <ijohnson> perhaps I'm being confused about which lock is being held there
[17:50] <zyga> yes, that's entirely possible and correct
[17:50] <zyga> it's unprotected at this time
[17:50] <ijohnson> but don't we not want that to happen?
[17:50] <zyga> there's going to be a new lock that is not a part of this PR
[17:50] <zyga> it will prevent that from happening
[17:51] <zyga> but it's not the current lock
[17:51] <zyga> where the "current" lock can only be held very very briefly
[17:51] <zyga> the new inhibit lock will actively stall startup and can be held during long operations (e.g. snap refresh downloads)
[17:51] <ijohnson> okay, if this is a known limitation we plan to resolve later and is effectively not worse than the current behavior then that's fine
[17:51] <zyga> that's correct, the current behavior is identically weak
[17:51] <zyga> it's making a point-in-time decision
[17:51] <ijohnson> it just seemed to me like we are releasing the lock sooner so we are introducing more race conditions
[17:52] <zyga> but before unlinking
[17:52] <zyga> so it's effectively still racy
[17:52] <ijohnson> got it, thanks for clarifying
[17:52] <ijohnson> and for working on all this, it _feels_ really close this time :-)
[17:52] <zyga> that's why I included that comment, it's a specific guarantee that we are providing only
[17:52] <zyga> ha, it's still somewhat distant but definitely better than before
[17:52] <zyga> the new inhibit lock is in another PR
[17:53] <zyga> but I need to rebase it on top of this thing as it's still using one of the earlier iterations
[17:53] <pstolowski> eod, cu
[17:53] <ijohnson> zyga: ack sounds good
[18:02]  * zyga needs to reboot
[18:20]  * zyga-laptop EODs
[18:40] <zyga-laptop> degville hey
[18:40] <zyga-laptop> post EOD question
[18:40] <zyga-laptop> do you happen to know what happened to ubuntu core downloads?
[18:40] <zyga-laptop> https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi has just server images
[18:42] <zyga-laptop> I found https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi-2-3-core but it's not linked from the download page
[18:42] <degville> zyga-laptop: hello! no, I don't know what's happened there.
[18:42] <zyga-laptop> it seems we are advertising classic
[18:42] <zyga-laptop> and core is on a distinct page that is in a void somewhere
[18:43] <zyga-laptop> I'm good for now but I just wanted to raise this
[18:43] <zyga-laptop> I'll make a video about how to install ubuntu core on a pi
[18:43] <zyga-laptop> and the first step is ... harder than I expected
[18:44] <degville> mmm... yeah, we're doing a poor comms job. Not sure why, or the motivation behind it.
[18:44] <degville> The compute docs are Core focused.
[18:44] <degville> https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi-compute-module-3
[18:44] <zyga-laptop> oh well
[18:45] <zyga-laptop> I'll try to include this in the video
[18:45] <zyga-laptop> doing a quick note/screenplay thing now
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> it's pretty weird
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> if you go to ubuntu.com/download/iot
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> there's a big green install button
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> for pi 2 3 or 4
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> but that's the classic page
[18:46] <degville> zyga-laptop: yeah, totally agree.
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> if you scroll below
[18:46] <degville> Just tried the same.
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> there's install ubuntu core
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> but it's a separate set of platforms
[18:46] <zyga-laptop> I guess I "get it" but it is messy
[18:48] <degville> zyga-laptop: my guess is not wanting to confuse the majority who may be looking for the Ubuntu-equivalent to Raspbian. But Core images are totally lost along the way.
[18:48] <zyga-laptop> yeah
[18:48] <zyga-laptop> I have the same feeling about both
[18:48] <zyga-laptop> I think we need more of a ...
[18:49] <zyga-laptop> https://www.opensuse.org
[18:49] <zyga-laptop> like chooser
[18:49] <zyga-laptop> it's a really clean page
[18:49] <degville> yes, you're right.
[19:35] <zyga-laptop> ijohnson|lunch thank you
[19:35] <zyga-laptop> I'll iterate tomorrow though, trying to record something tonight
[19:35] <ijohnson> k, np
[19:35] <ijohnson> good work on the branch!
[21:36] <mup> PR snapd#7828 opened: tests: demand silence from check_journalctl_log <Simple 😃> <Test Robustness> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7828>
[23:30] <mup> PR snapd#7829 opened: tests: fix the channels checks done on nested tests <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7829>


[06:09] <jakefb> Hi I have just upgrade to 18.04 but I am having an issue with systemd-modules-load
[06:10] <jakefb> when running systemctl status systemd-modules-load I get this:
[06:10] <jakefb> could not open moddep file '/lib/modules/4.14.135-rh164-20190731212002.xenU.x86_64/modules.dep.bin'
[06:10] <jakefb> anyone know why this is happening?
[06:12] <jakefb> I also get this error: Failed to lookup alias 'acpiphp': Function not implemented
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> jakefb: you might wanna idle a bit here, weekend & US wakeup might take a while
[06:13] <jakefb> lotuspsychje: okay thanks I'll wait and see if anyone can help
[13:11] <Greyztar> hello,when i do timedatectl list-timezones it only finds UTC, how do i get all the other zones or if so is there a way to install other timezones or to reinstall the whole timedatectl stuff?
[13:12] <Greyztar> also might mention zoneinfo directory isnt present in usr directory that might be it?
[13:35] <tomreyn> Greyztar: that's unusual, it should notmally list all the known time zones. you may want to install / reinstall tzdata
[13:36] <Greyztar> tomreyn: cheers ill try that,recently migrated server so its probably missing some stuff (,")
[13:39] <Greyztar> tomreyn: that worked like a charm,seems it was missing something from that package
[13:39] <tomreyn> Greyztar: migrated from what? you can "apt install ubuntu-server^"  (the ^ is NOT a typo) to ensure you have all the relevant packages installed.
[13:41] <tomreyn> the above command won't reinstall already installed packages nor restore configuration files for packages with dpkg-tracked configurations, though.
[13:42] <Greyztar> tomreyn: its an vps so i suspect they have slimmed down the image or so ,never had this problem at other providers though or my own regular installed server
[13:42] <Greyztar> tomreyn: but reinstalling that tzdata package added the missing timezones atleast so all good now cheers
[13:52] <tomreyn> Greyztar: servers are often set to UTC, so it's not too unusual, i guess, but, at least to me, it still seems wrong to delete files of installed packages in an image installation.
[13:53] <tomreyn> this and other reasons make me not want to use hosting companies' images at all.
[13:59] <Greyztar> tomreyn: yeah its abit odd, they also have a bunch of scripts running,couldnt at all figure out what was happening after i setup my iptables rules i couldnt log on anymore,after much research i managed to find the culprit,an ssh key import script was made so that the ssh service wouldnt start if that script failed none of them at support could tell me that before hand so that got a little spicy
[14:01] <tomreyn> you wih they'd all have proper documentation on the diff between a default ubuntu image and their customizations, so that you could easily cherry pick from those.
[14:02] <Greyztar> that would be great indeed (,")
[14:02] <tomreyn> unfortunately pretty much none offers this. you either go with their images or you are on your own, guessing, hoping things will work.
[14:03] <tomreyn> what i usually do is to boot into an imaged system, take notes on how it's setup, then do my own fresh install and redo the config as needed.
[14:04] <Greyztar> yeah that seems nice,although some only provide images and not like Vultr where one could install from your own iso thats a great feature though
[14:04] <tomreyn> so network configs, network mounts (if any), /root/.ssh/authorized_keys, /root/.ssh/config, /etc/hosts, /etc/hostname is usually what you need, but there can be more.
[14:07] <Greyztar> really happy i got time functioning again thank you very much!
[14:10] <tomreyn> you're welcome.
[23:21] <foo> This should not prompt for password if git user tries to run this command as dev user, correct? git ALL=(dev) NOPASSWD: /home/dev/deploy.sh
[23:21] <foo> It worked in a previous ubuntu installation but not another system, my error likely exists somewhere else
[23:22] <foo> oh, actually, it doesn't work on the old system either when I do... sudo -u dev /home/dev/deploy-shannon.sh ... hmm.
[23:23] <foo> err, well, old system had a different path for command, which is in visudo, and that did not prompt for password. /me investigates what is going on here
[23:26] <foo> ah, I know the problem. service changed


[05:24] <sdbinwiiexe> Does edubuntu have LTS releases like ubuntu?
[05:26] <sdbinwiiexe> Or are all releases treated like LTS?
[08:10] <alkisg> Good morning
[18:28] <Uraken> Hello all
[18:32] <Uraken> hello has anyone got a moment to answer a noob question?
[19:15] <Uraken> is there a good dvd ripping program for edubuntu? i want to back up my kids dvds to hdd (maybe as isos)
[19:22] <stgraber> probably
[19:22] <stgraber> hang on a sec, looking for one
[19:23] <stgraber> "dvdrip" should do the trick for you. I can easily be found in the Software Center
[19:24] <Uraken> brilliant thanks mate really appreciate your help
[19:24] <stgraber> or just search for "dvd rip" in the Software Center for other alternatives
[19:24] <stgraber> you're welcome
[23:10] <highvoltage> stgraber: hey


[02:50] <wxl> @tsimonq2: did yo uget clarity as to what sorting right means?
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: did yo uget clarity as to what sorting right means?], Huh?
[03:04] <wxl> @tsimonq2: https://twitter.com/AspidistraFlyin/status/1038390694824620033?s=19
[04:15] <tsimonq2> wxl: Oh, no I didn't.
[04:23] <wxl> @tsimonq2: yeah you might want to get some clarity there
[04:24] <wxl> including when it started
[04:55] <tsimonq2> wxl: OL
[04:55] <tsimonq2> *OK
[05:15] <wxl> @tsimonq2: LGTM https://share.riseup.net/#1gRfWbLjAkNUKFwSvo1piw
[05:15] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[05:25] <wxl> @HMollerCl is ~/.config/lxqt/lxqt-config-appearance.conf or lxqt.conf changing to sho the value of the GTK override when you try it? I see ControlGTKThemeEnabled=true, but nothing about the theme itself
[05:31] <wxl> ah nm this is set in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
[05:33] <wxl> and ~/.gtkrc-2.0
 @wxl [<wxl> ah nm this is set in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini], yes
 pulseaudio icon in papirus is extremely boring.


[20:36] <deffrag> Hello! I've been noticing abnormal behavior in Ubuntu 12.04. My system's GUI and keyboard suddenly freezes but it doesn't freezes movement of mouse, audio playback and ssh access. I cannot click on anything, change to tty0-6, caps lock on/off gives no indication. I'm not able to understand this type of behavior. Can anyone help me identify the problems and fix them please?
[20:38] <deffrag> I'm faced with the problem again and currently I'm connected to the problem system from netbook via ssh. I can see top/htop giving an also increase/decrease volume using alsamixer. I don't know how it sounds or what I'm missing here ...
[20:39] <deffrag> ..I can see top/htop listing processes and can also increase/decrease... *
[20:40] <deffrag> But not able to get anything working directly on the problem system
[20:56] <JanC> deffrag: does the screen still update (e.g. the clock)?
[20:56] <deffrag> JanC: No, nothing really update.
[20:56] <deffrag> s
[20:56] <deffrag> Clock is 40 minutes behind
[20:58] <JanC> no heavy swapping going on?
[20:58] <deffrag> Sec, let me give you mem info
[20:58] <JanC> although 40 minutes is long
[20:59] <deffrag> System is still running as per top from ssh and I can only have cursor movement on the problem system
[20:59] <JanC> and most likely that would cause audio to stutter too
[20:59] <JanC> could be a graphics driver issue...
[21:00] <deffrag> No, no distortion at all. The music is playing as if nothing happened
[21:00] <JanC> or in theory also a compositor (compiz) issue, I suppose
[21:00] <deffrag> And the graphics card is disabled using bumblebee, as I'm using gfx with optimus
[21:01] <JanC> if this has anything to do with graphics, you probably better ask in #ubuntu-x (or on their mailing list)
[21:02] <deffrag> I forgot how to fetch MemInfo and SwapInfo parameters form commandline, somewhere in /sys/proc if I;m right
[21:03] <deffrag> $ cat /proc/meminfo
[21:03] <deffrag> MemTotal:        6005648 kB
[21:03] <deffrag> MemFree:          215700 kB
[21:03] <deffrag> SwapTotal:       5235708 kB
[21:03] <deffrag> SwapFree:        4849064 kB
[21:04] <deffrag> .. in reply to what you asked initially about swapping
[21:04] <deffrag> If that help. Thanks, I'll try asking in #ubuntu-x
[21:34] <deffrag> JanC: With help from #bumblebee identified the issue to be very close to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1015015
[21:34] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1015015 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Xorg freezes once a day, mouse and SSH still works" [High,Incomplete]
[21:36] <JanC> deffrag: certainly sounds like an issue for the X team then
[21:36] <deffrag> Yes, thank you


[06:56] <ara> morning all!
[09:12] <fagan> Morning
[09:17] <ara> morning fagan
[09:32]  * fagan is testing pitivi at the moment but I cant seem to make it crash, which is a good thing (I think)
[09:49]  * fagan downloads 8.04 and 9.10 to test upgrades to lucid later in the release :)
[10:08] <ara> great idea fagan :)
[10:08] <ara> planning ahead is good :)
[10:09]  * ara hugs fagan
[10:09] <fagan> marjo: suggested it at the UDS
[10:09]  * fagan will start testing at alpha 2 ish
[13:45] <cr3> good morning folks!
[14:10] <cr3> moustafa: soupe du jour
[14:10] <moustafa> cr3: fromage
[14:11] <moustafa> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y83vXZlgH6s
[14:15] <cr3> moustafa: sac de douche :)
[14:15] <moustafa> Je ne comprends pas!
[14:17] <cr3> moustafa: after checkbox, your next task will be writing a bot to randomly print french words in the channel
[14:17] <moustafa> ayaye, mon capitane!
[16:30] <ara> well, I call it a day. See you tomorrow!
[16:30] <moustafa> Take care, ara
[21:57] <moustafa> well, good evening everyone
[21:59] <fagan> Its quiet in here when ara and the others arent around


[12:09] <vineetk> hi I am looking for the #webdev channel on the irc.mozilla.org server.. but I can
[12:09] <vineetk> I can't*
[12:09] <vineetk> seem to find the irc.mozilla.org server in the list of networks in XChat


[17:25] <crak> hi all
[17:25] <crak> can anyone help me with routing?
[17:25] <crak> my mythbuntu is connected via cable in the iptv-port of my router
[17:26] <crak> i would like to connect to the 'normal' internet via wireless
[17:26] <crak> anyone here who knows howto deal with iptv and multicast?
[17:40] <Unguided> crak: you could try #mythtv-users. some of the mythtv developer hang out there and they could answer your questions


[03:06] <codepython777> I've to provision 10 bare metal servers - what is a good way to do this, apart from installing by hand and then running a install script for installing what i need.
[04:06] <vbotka> codepython777, you might want to take a look at ansible
[04:06] <vbotka> https://launchpad.net/~ansible/+archive/ubuntu/ansible
[04:06] <vbotka> https://launchpad.net/~ansible/+archive/ubuntu/ansible
[04:10] <jak2000> vbotka know about sshkeys?
[04:11] <codepython777> vbotka: I am using ansible - but I need an easy way to apt-get ansible and then run the playbook - assuming i have baremetal
[09:11] <mowthegrass> trying to install 12.04, after system installation i can only see memtest in grub
[09:11] <mowthegrass> any idea why ?
[12:40] <frickler> jamespage: coreycb: can we still get python-keystoneauth1=2.4.1 into xenial? it was in yakkety for a short time, but has been superseded there by 2.7.0. the latter probably is too new for mitaka, though
[12:40] <coreycb> frickler, we likely can if there are some high priority bug fixes
[12:41] <jamespage> coreycb, tbh if its a point release ontop of 2.4, we can push it through under the micro release exception that the SRU team can grant whenever now
[12:41] <coreycb> jamespage, yes
[12:41] <coreycb> jamespage, frickler: we'll work on that
[12:42] <frickler> ah, I already had a bug open for it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/python-keystoneauth1/+bug/1586900
[12:45] <coreycb> frickler, thanks!
[13:02] <jayjo_> Is there a way to validate json documents in the command line?
[13:12] <jamespage> ddellav, coreycb, cargonza-holiday: made the decision to move OpenStack things to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenStack
[13:12] <jamespage> from out of ServerTeam
[13:13] <coreycb> jamespage, seems like a better place these days
[13:14] <coreycb> jamespage, what ever happened to the 36 months of support for LTS+2 release?  is that still happening?
[14:22] <skylite> im trying to use pv remotely like this> ssh user@host "pv dump.sql | mysql -u -p" but the pv progress bar does not show up. How can I see it?
[14:22] <jrwren> skylite: add -t to ssh command to allocated a tty.
[14:23] <jrwren> err, to allocate a tty
[14:24] <skylite> jrwren brilliant thx
[15:24] <jayjo_> my ec2 instance has begun running very slow. I tried stopping and starting it in case it was an issue of the host... are there some easy checks to see what's going on?
[15:30] <patdk-wk> vmstat, iostat
[15:31] <frickler> has anyone seen this error? http://paste.ubuntu.com/17597189/ I'm getting similar errors if I try to do tab completion on a systemctl command
[15:32] <coreycb> ddellav, jamespage: ci update: nova newton - patches dropped/rebased, neutron mitaka - opened bug/patched out new test that landed and is failing, aodh mitaka - updated to install new aodh-data-migration tool, designate liberty - uploaded dh-python != fix to wily review queue
[15:40] <kirkland> hggdh: hrm, that's really weird!  it is completely GPLv3...
[15:41] <kirkland> hggdh: I have not idea...
[15:44] <hggdh> kirkland: yeah. But gnome-software center thinks otherwise :-)
[15:44] <kirkland> hggdh: I have no idea why;  if someone figures out why, I'm happy to go and fix it :-)
[15:45] <hggdh> heh
[16:31] <coreycb> beisner, nova 2:13.0.0-0ubuntu5~cloud0 is ready to promote to xenial-proposed
[16:31] <coreycb> that is, mitaka-proposed
[16:34] <beisner> hi coreycb, promoted nova 13.0.0-0ubuntu5~cloud0 -> mitaka-proposed re: bug 1576093
[16:34] <coreycb> beisner, thanks sir
[16:34] <beisner> coreycb, yw sir
[16:47] <Impaloo> Anyone uses ruby-switch(1) here?
[17:49] <codepython777>  I've to provision 10 bare metal servers - what is a good way to do this, apart from installing by hand and then running a install script for installing what i need.
[17:49] <ikonia> presseed ?
[17:50] <ikonia> preseed
[17:52] <codepython777> ikonia: is there something better than pxe, preseed, ...or anything that is not 20 years old and painful to use?
[17:52] <ikonia> whats wrong with pxe and preseed ?
[17:52] <ikonia> you can use it with image based deployment too
[17:54] <codepython777> ikonia: is there an easier way? I've not used them, but the way they are designed looks ... not nice
[17:54] <ikonia> codepython777: they are really really easy to use
[17:54] <ikonia> doesn't take long to setup
[17:55] <codepython777> ikonia: in preseed, can i use my own ansible playbook - to play at the end?
[17:55] <ikonia> codepython777: sure thing
[17:55] <ikonia> codepython777: once the box comes up and deploys just run the playbook
[17:55] <ikonia> codepython777: you could even put that in as a "post" script
[17:55] <codepython777> cool
[17:55] <codepython777> Let me try preseed
[17:56] <ikonia> first few times, you'll screw it up
[17:56] <ikonia> don't worry about it
[17:56] <ikonia> once you click with it, you'll fly
[17:56] <jrwren> codepython777: maas is very good and open source.
[17:56] <jrwren> codepython777: http://maas.io
[17:57] <ikonia> you like maas ?
[17:57] <jrwren> its come a long way ;]
[17:57] <ikonia> no doubt, it just still feels immature and lacking features
[17:57] <jrwren> what kind of features?
[17:58] <jrwren> i use it for a specific case, it works well for my case. I can see how it may not work well for other cases.
[17:58] <ikonia> so for example how it doesn't depend on the underlying platform technology it does it's "own" thing
[17:58] <ikonia> I may give the current version a try
[17:58] <ikonia> I just don't see what it has over say foreman
[17:59] <jrwren> i'm not sure what that means.
[17:59] <jrwren> it does depend on "underlything platform technology" afaict. Being a string of words, we might expect different things from "underlyhing platform technology"
[17:59] <ikonia> maybe it's time to give it another try and see where it is "now"
[18:00] <ikonia> is it still run by canonical ?
[18:00] <jrwren> it looks very similar to foreman to me. I've not played with theforeman. Maybe I should.
[18:00] <jrwren> yes, it is still run by canonical
[18:01] <ikonia> foreman does physical/virtual has plugins for providers such as dhcp providers, dns providers etc etc
[18:01] <ikonia> I'll give maas a spin now with the current build
[18:05] <codepython777> checking out mass
[18:06] <codepython777> jrwren: In my case, I will have to provision one machine with mass, and then PXE boot the 10 machines?
[18:07] <ikonia> think of mass as a manger/wrapper for pxe in your example
[18:07] <ikonia> once the machines are booted maas can be used to manage them
[18:08] <jrwren> codepython777: yes.
[18:13] <codepython777> jrwren: what is a good place to get suport on mass? (mailing list? here?)
[18:18] <jrwren> codepython777: askubuntu, #maas
[18:19] <mowthegrass> Hello , Has anyone tried to set grub password on 12.04. I need some help. I did set up superuser to /etc/grub.d/40_custom however the system on its boot just drops to an shell where user manually
[18:19] <mowthegrass> needs to enter the password to boot
[18:19] <Xin> type in
[18:19] <Xin> iamrediculous
[18:20] <mowthegrass> while trying to add --unrestricted as menuentry argument it just boots to memtest
[18:21] <mowthegrass> i did try out the solution provided by Alain Regura (http://askubuntu.com/questions/499264/how-to-set-up-grub2-password-in-an-easy-way) it works well for 14.04
[18:22] <mowthegrass> but not on 12.04
[18:23] <rattking> yeah the grub password behaviour completely changed between 12.04 and 14.04 :(
[18:24] <mowthegrass> rattking:documentation on them are not very clear https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Passwords
[18:25] <mowthegrass> while i try to user --users in 12.04  every reboot i just need to take up a console and manually type in username/password to boot the system
[18:26] <mowthegrass> TIMEOUT in /etc/default/grub just ticks down and then drops to shell where i need to just enter the passord to boot the system


[14:57] <Cheesehead> Hooray. My rdiff-backup system works. Now backed up, do-release-upgrade from 10.10 to 11.4
[17:21] <Cheesehead> Completed second do-release-upgrade from 11.04 to 11.10
[17:21] <Cheesehead> I'm finally back up to date!


[09:29] <asac> chrisccoulson: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649525#c9 can we have that enabled on armel?
[09:29] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 649525 in Canvas: WebGL "WebGL layer compositing through the BasicCanvasLayer is very slow (desktop version)" [Normal,New: ]
[09:30] <asac> or can you make a PPA build available with that patch and with that enabled ;)
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> asac, looking
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> fta - "<lamont> there will be a brief disturbance in the ppa universe for maintenence"
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> (from #ubuntu-release)
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> not sure what that means ;)
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> but, just in case they disappear again and you're wondering why...
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> oh, i see they're all disabled now anyway, except for the ones which are finishing jobs
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> so, too late ;)
[14:24] <BUGabundo> fta: youtube flash in chromium is locking my laptop
[14:24] <BUGabundo> happened 3 times since yesterdat
[14:31] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: ping
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> hi m_conley, how are you?
[14:32] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: I'm alright - how's your day going?
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, not too bad thanks. just investigating this empty-indicator issue ;)
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> how about you?
[14:32] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: well, I just merged your patch locally, and I'm getting segfaults anytime I click one of the indicators...
[14:33] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: sorry, not seg faulst
[14:33] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: assertion failures:  Assertion failure: CType::IsSizeDefined(cx, targetType), at /media/Projects/mozilla/thunderbird/mozilla/js/src/ctypes/CTypes.cpp:1730
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> oh, i've not seen that. what version of tbird is that?
[14:34] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: trunk.
[14:34] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: I guess you've been working with 5.0?
[14:34] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i've not tried it on trunk yet
[14:34] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: alright, cool
[14:37] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, do you run a debug build?
[14:38] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: I do - that's probably what's going on
[14:38] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: it's just complaining.  :p
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> interesting
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what the check is actually doing though. it might be worth asking in #jsapi
[14:42] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, OOI, where we use g_signal_connect, does it make any difference if you change the data parameter from null to 0?
[14:43] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: will check, hang on...
[14:43] <chrisccoulson> i'm just guessing here, but the error would suggest we're passing something incorrectly across the C api
[14:46] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: no dice
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> hmm :/
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> i asked in #jsapi, but i'm not sure they use ctypes in there ;)
[14:50] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: mmhmm - finding experts in this domain is a little tricky.  ;)
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> heh
[14:52] <chrisccoulson> i should probably try doing a debug build really
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, "Some times, like int and int[30] and int *, have a size"
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> "But int[] is a type with no size.  Therefore you shouldn't be able to construct an object of that type"
[15:01] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: where did you read that?  Or are you chatting with someone?
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, that's jorendorff in #jsapi
[15:02] <m_conley> gotcha
[15:03] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: hrm - not sure what to do with that information, though.
[15:03] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: I don't think we're using int arrays anywhere...or am I misunderstanding?
[15:03] <chrisccoulson> not sure yet, i need to have a look and see if i'm doing something really silly
[15:56] <fta> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks for relaying the info. you're more reliable than they are ;)
[15:56] <fta> BUGabundo, recent regression?
[15:57] <BUGabundo> last two days
[15:57] <fta> BUGabundo, can you reproduce easily?
[15:57] <BUGabundo> sure
[15:57] <BUGabundo> open youtube
[15:57] <BUGabundo> PUMB
[15:57] <BUGabundo> system locks
[15:57] <BUGabundo> audio plays, video plays
[15:57] <fta> can you please bisect it?
[15:57] <BUGabundo> but can't access anything , REISUB
[15:58] <BUGabundo> not today
[15:58] <BUGabundo> have to prep last night photo and video sessions
[15:58] <fta> do you use the h/w acceleration?
[15:58] <BUGabundo> not sure
[15:58] <BUGabundo> let me check the flags
[15:58] <BUGabundo> GPU compositing on all pages is disabled
[15:58] <fta> here are mine:
[15:58] <fta> $ grep ^CHROMIUM_FLAGS= /etc/chromium-browser/default
[15:58] <fta> CHROMIUM_FLAGS="--disable-accelerated-compositing --disable-accelerated-2d-canvas --no-first-run"
[15:59] <BUGabundo> /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser --flag-switches-begin --enable-click-to-play --enable-cloud-print-proxy --enable-nacl --experimental-location-features --enable-experimental-extension-apis --ppapi-flash-in-process --preload-instant-search --flag-switches-end
[16:00] <fta> try with my 2 disable-xx flags
[16:00] <BUGabundo> ok
[16:00] <BUGabundo> restarting
[16:06] <BUGabundo> fta: "Your profile could not be opened correctly.
[16:06] <BUGabundo> Some features may be unavailable.  Please check that the profile exists and you have permission to read and write its contents."
[16:06] <BUGabundo> should I be getting this ?
[16:07] <fta> no
[16:07] <BUGabundo> well, not crashing now
[16:07] <BUGabundo> I'm still here
[16:08] <BUGabundo> trying "old" profile (if I still have it)
[16:08] <BUGabundo> bah
[16:08] <BUGabundo> now I always get that :(
[16:08] <BUGabundo> and lost historic
[16:08] <BUGabundo> [28240:28240:6462179688:ERROR:extension_prefs.cc(1010)] Bad or missing pref 'state' for extension 'ahfgeienlihckogmohjhadlkjgocpleb'
[16:08] <BUGabundo> [28240:28240:6463559002:ERROR:profile_impl.cc(1085)] Could not initialize login database.
[16:08] <fta> probably a wrong perm in your profile.. hold on
[16:09] <BUGabundo> [28240:28240:6474209270:ERROR:profile_sync_service.cc(518)] Unrecoverable error detected -- ProfileSyncService unusable.Sync Configuration failed with 3
[16:09] <BUGabundo> but was fine, till I tried those flags
[16:09] <BUGabundo> :(
[16:11] <fta> find ~/.config/chromium \! -perm -u=r -ls
[16:11] <fta> should return nothing
[16:11] <BUGabundo> empty
[16:13] <fta> find ~/.config/chromium -user root -ls
[16:13] <BUGabundo> nada
[16:13] <fta> hm
[16:16] <fta> BUGabundo, file ~/.config/chromium/Default/* | grep SQLite | cut -d: -f1 | xargs -n1 -d '\n' sh -c 'echo $0 >&2;sqlite3 "$0" .schema' >/dev/null
[16:16] <fta> BUGabundo, anything reported as locked?
[16:17] <BUGabundo> Error: database is locked
[16:17] <fta> uhuh, which one?
[16:17] <BUGabundo> a bunch
[16:17] <BUGabundo> pastesbin
[16:17] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/631847/
[16:18] <fta> BUGabundo, are you sure no chromium process was running when you did that?
[16:19] <BUGabundo> checking
[16:19] <BUGabundo> $ psx chrome
[16:19] <BUGabundo> 1000     29834  0.0  0.0  17268   904 pts/3    S+   16:19   0:00 grep --color=auto chrome
[16:19] <BUGabundo> I had two windows opened
[16:19] <BUGabundo> closed it all
[16:19] <BUGabundo> run from cli with flags
[16:19] <BUGabundo> ofc, it crashed before
[16:19] <BUGabundo> but I opened it after reboot, just fine
[16:20] <fta> not chrome, chromium
[16:20] <BUGabundo> doh
[16:20] <BUGabundo> 1000      3606  0.0  0.4<PHONE_NUMBER>4 ?        S    14:28   0:00 /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser --type=zygote
[16:21] <fta> close it, or kill it
[16:21] <fta> ... as cleanly as possible :P
[16:22] <BUGabundo> but why is it left running ?
[16:22] <BUGabundo> stupid chromium OS virus alike
[16:22] <fta> lol
[16:22] <BUGabundo> after two pkills its closed
[16:22] <BUGabundo> no locks reported
[16:22] <BUGabundo> trying the flags again
[16:23] <fta> no, the zygote is the master process, opening all the files & dbs, before entering the sandbox where nothing is visible
[16:23] <BUGabundo> testing no flag
[16:23] <BUGabundo> I'm still here ?
[16:24] <BUGabundo> damn, don't you hate non reproduble bigs?
[16:24] <BUGabundo> *bugs
[16:24] <fta> did you check the "background Apps" flags?
[16:24] <BUGabundo> [30602:30602:7378557193:ERROR:content_settings_pref_provider.cc(763)] Invalid pattern strings: [*.]www.youtube.com,
[16:24] <fta> no idea what that is
[16:24] <BUGabundo> that's ugly , lots of line reporting... probably bad addon
[16:25] <BUGabundo> I turned off all my flags
[16:25] <BUGabundo> trying one by one now
[16:25] <BUGabundo> fuuuuu
[16:26] <BUGabundo> click to play, seems safe. now location
[16:28] <BUGabundo> webaudio ok
[16:29] <BUGabundo> heck
[16:29] <BUGabundo> now everything works
[16:29] <BUGabundo> :(
[16:30] <fta> well, if you can reproduce, bisect it. you can use my helper for that: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/bisect-chromium-with-continuous-builds.sh
[16:30] <BUGabundo> now I can't reproduce it anymore
[16:31] <BUGabundo> maybe it was fixed on the last update
[16:31] <fta> nvidia?
[16:31] <BUGabundo> and when i booted I still had the one from yesterday
[16:31] <BUGabundo> yes
[16:31] <fta> do you use my flags now?
[16:31] <BUGabundo> no
[16:32] <BUGabundo> just the ones I had before
[16:32] <BUGabundo> more or less, I think
[16:38] <fta> BUGabundo, maybe my bug 718858
[16:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 718858 in nvidia-graphics-drivers "GPU hang using GL on x86_64" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718858
[16:38] <BUGabundo> maybe
[16:38] <BUGabundo> but I'm using nouveua
[16:39] <fta> or bug 755099
[16:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 755099 in unity "X lockup caused by compiz/unity" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/755099
[16:39] <fta> oh, i know nothing about nouveau
[16:39] <fta> it doesn't even start here
[16:40] <BUGabundo> no compiz here , either
[16:41] <fta> BUGabundo, you don't use unity?
[16:41] <fta> gnome shell?
[16:42] <BUGabundo> gnome3
[16:42] <BUGabundo> "classic"
[16:49] <fta> BUGabundo, is your box still reachable over ssh when you freeze?
[16:50] <BUGabundo> no idea
[16:51] <fta> it's likely a driver issue locking X, so unless you can get a X trace, there's zero chance anyone would care
[16:51] <BUGabundo> ok
[16:51] <BUGabundo> ill try to SSH from my tablet
[16:52] <fta> ..and even so, there's little chance they'll care, like for my bugs
[16:52] <fta> last time, i caught a trace from my tablet too ;)
[16:53] <BUGabundo> :)
[17:04] <fta> BUGabundo, instructions are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing
[17:04] <BUGabundo> I know them
[17:04] <BUGabundo> thanks
[19:49] <BUGabundo> fta: crashed, but couldn't SSH into
[21:37] <xnox`> chrisccoulson: about xulrunner removal. xiphos is in process of being ported to webkit & gtk3. I can make it build against gtkhtml to drop xulrunner dependency.


[10:46] <aim1159> hi all
[10:46] <aim1159> got a question about membering in ubuntu-irc team
[10:46] <aim1159> i'm an op of #ubuntu-ru
[10:47] <Myrtti> ok, what do you want to know?
[10:48] <aim1159> first of all - how to log my channel on irclogs.ubuntu.com  - it was there, but for some reason all logs gone.
[10:48] <aim1159> who is responsible for this?
[10:48] <aim1159> secondly I whant to know how can I help in ubuntu irc work
[10:49] <aim1159> execpt of working on answering qs on my channel
[10:51] <Myrtti> first of all, loco logs are done usually by ubuntu-eu.org
[10:51] <Myrtti> and locobots
[10:52] <stdin> the locobot's are operated by the ubuntu-eu admin team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:59] <elkbuntu> aim1159, if you want to help, you could start by encouraging good behaviour with your channel-mates. they're a rowdy bunch and have been known to harass #ubuntu-women :(
[11:00] <aim1159> :/
[11:00] <elkbuntu> i dared join #ubuntu-ru, and they followed me there and proceeded to be quite rude
[11:01] <aim1159> uhhh... suppose they think it was funny.... :(
[11:01] <elkbuntu> they might, but that's not an excuse.
[11:01] <aim1159> sure.
[11:02] <aim1159> i appologise for my country-neighbours for there inexcusive behaiviour
[11:02] <aim1159> :(
[11:04] <elkbuntu> aim1159, if you're innocent, then dont feel bad. it'll be nice to have someone to talk sense into them when they get excited. they got quite excited on release day too, poor ##windows wore most of the problems then though.
[11:06] <elkbuntu> aim1159, the biggest problem with us conversing with them to try talk things through, is that they think it's hilarious to talk to us in cyrillic, so we have no idea what they're saying
[11:07] <elkbuntu> which i admit, would be funny from their perspective.
[11:09] <aim1159> elkbuntu: what was the last day when they did this? just whant to check out nicks to keep an eye on the,
[11:10] <elkbuntu> aim1159, the last trouble i know if is last release day.
[11:22] <elkbuntu> aim1159, i just checked my logs of the incident, and it was actually both incidents above.  They ignored what I said and instead did /whois on me which triggered the join of #ubuntu-women. They were: opkdx, alexmlw, yn, [0_A4Tech, Dim252, sja, zloy.
[11:22] <elkbuntu> this was on release day.
[11:41] <aim1159> elkbuntu: could you please provide me with such logs
[11:41] <aim1159> via mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:47] <elkbuntu> sure
[11:49] <aim1159> elkbuntu: thanks
[17:41]  * doorntje dreams it is the end of the week
[21:00] <doorntje> SWAT: Do you have some news about my ban?
[21:01] <SWAT> doorntje: you could've PM'd me about this. No, not yet.
[21:01] <doorntje> ow, sorry
[21:26]  * ompaul has swat on highlight
[21:29]  * jussi01 *swats* ompaul :P
[21:29] <ompaul> jussi01, you can has no swat
[21:30]  * ompaul and SWAT goes to pub
[21:30] <jussi01> poor SWAt...
[21:31] <ompaul> jussi01, last time we went to a pub there was a lot of fun and a funny video happened the next day
[21:31] <ompaul> mind you we blame orga for that
[21:31] <ompaul> woops a bit o/t
[21:31]  * ompaul slides back into the background
[21:32] <SWAT> ompaul: we still blame him for that. I still blame you for telling him
[21:35] <ompaul> SWAT, it is all true, so blame aside the truth was, it was fun


 Was wondering if I could invite ubottu to #linuxmce
[05:09] <L3top> www.linuxmce.org open source home automation platform built on kubuntu
[05:16] <Unit193> That doesn't sound like a candidate for ubottu, but I am not one that can say one way or another. AlanBell, Pici or funkyHat may know, or you can run your own.
[05:16] <Unit193> !botclone
[05:17] <pangolin> !bots | L3top
[05:18] <pangolin> I believe the last link should have info about getting ubottu in your channel.
[05:18] <L3top> tyvm
[05:18] <pangolin> it may very well say to ask in here, in which case i would say just sit idle and someone should be able to answer sooner or later :)
[05:21] <L3top> launchpad took me to ubottu.com which said to come here and ask
[05:25] <Unit193> Yep, just wait for the people that know.  Also, seems the wiki and website tell you to ask in different places.
[05:28] <L3top> It is very likely not a candidate. I was being lazy I suppose... it is all avail to be repurposed... just seemed easiest to ask.
[05:28] <L3top> btw as to usage, can you specify versions with info?
[05:29] <Unit193> Ubuntu versions? As in !info firefox oneiric ?
[05:29] <L3top> !info nvidia-current
[05:29] <L3top> yes
[05:29] <Unit193> Yep, sure can.
[05:29] <Unit193> !info pianobar precise
[05:29] <L3top> we are always LTS but always behind... lol
[05:30] <L3top> thanks again.
[05:30] <Unit193> Sure, and may want to wait just to make sure it's not.
[05:30] <L3top> Nobody is charging rent... Ill park.
[05:32] <L3top> !info nvidia-current lucid
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:15] <Fuchs> good morning
[08:15] <Unit193> Howdy.
[08:16] <Myrtti> moin
[08:16]  * Fuchs throws a yarnball at Myrtti
[08:19] <Myrtti> ooo yarn
[08:22]  * Tm_T throws a furball at Fuchs
[08:22]  * Tm_T throws a spikeball at Fuchs now he's confused by all the fluff
[15:02] <botfather> hoi are there already bots in use that use the launchpadlib API ?
[15:03] <botfather> was thinking about writing a plugin for that for my bot but if it is already in use ...
[17:10] <AlanBell> botfather: the bugs plugin might use it already
[17:10] <AlanBell> bug 22235
[17:10] <AlanBell> like that
[18:21] <jussi> AlanBell: yes, tsimpson updated it to the launchpadlib stuff already :)
[18:22] <pangolin> jussi: L3top wanted to know if ubottu could be joined to their channel
[18:22] <jussi> pangolin: need more information...
[18:22] <pangolin> or a clone
 Hi all... Was wondering if I could invite ubottu to #linuxmce
 www.linuxmce.org open source home automation platform built on kubuntu
[18:23] <jussi> pangolin: simple answer, no.
[18:23] <pangolin> k
[18:23] <jussi> we only serve the ubuntu chans (ie. those in the ircc gc namespaces).
[18:23] <pangolin> I figured as much.
[18:23] <jussi> However, setting up a clone is easy, and jpds or others may be interested in lending their clones.
[18:24] <pangolin> probably be better for them to set one up themselves
[21:55] <L3top> Thanks jussi... I figured as well...
[23:09] <_d4vid> hi guys
[23:10] <_d4vid> i have a little problem with some channel
[23:10] <_d4vid> i was banned there without any reason
[23:10] <_d4vid> i think that is not normal
[23:10] <Unit193> What channel?
[23:11] <_d4vid> ubuntu-ru
[23:11] <Fuchs> (and yes, we did point him at /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-ru list)
[23:12] <Unit193> Heh, that's just what I looked at, but I am not an OP in -ru and can't directly help you there.
[23:12]  * Fuchs pokes Myrtti
[23:12] <Myrtti> hu?
[23:12] <Unit193> Isn't k1l one?
[23:12] <Fuchs> Unit193: no, definitely not
[23:13] <_d4vid> there are 2 guys here gave access to a channel and who have simply not respectable from people who want to simply talk time. threaten with a ban from channel
[23:13] <Unit193> Alright, I'll bowout now.
[23:13] <Fuchs> Myrtti: I thought you might know the standard procedure there, else feel unpoked :)
[23:14] <_d4vid> artus and skai 2 bastards
[23:14] <_d4vid> there in channel
[23:14] <Myrtti> there might be something but my brain is on free fall as it's "oh dear goddess when did it get so late" o'clock
[23:14] <AlanBell> bazhang is on the list
[23:14]  * Fuchs puts Myrtti to bed and hands her a plushie
[23:15] <_d4vid> AlanBell, where?
[23:15] <AlanBell> on the access list for #ubuntu-ru
[23:15] <_d4vid> bazhang, hello
[23:15] <_d4vid> bazhang, can you unban me there?
[23:16] <bazhang> _d4vid, let me see the issue first
[23:17] <Myrtti> whee bazhang to the rescue! morning bazhang, good night everyone else :-P
[23:17] <Unit193> 'Night
[23:17] <Fuchs> nighty Myrtti :3
[23:17] <_d4vid> bazhang, issue was that i was +q first for a youtube link . and than i changed my nickname and artus ban me. where he then was just funny for a ban me
[23:18] <bazhang> _d4vid, please be patient. I'm still checking the logs
[23:18] <_d4vid> ok
[23:19] <bazhang> what was your nick before
[23:19] <_d4vid> _d4v_d
[23:20] <_d4vid> he ban my host
[23:21] <_d4vid> I think those people may not like the two have an access
[23:21] <_d4vid> banen after every loss and mood
[23:21] <_d4vid> *ban
[23:25] <_d4vid> there is no check of the two could
[23:54] <bazhang> _d4vid, I didn't see the original ban; was that for being offtopic?


[02:48] <derekv> ggs
[02:48] <derekv> =p wrong chat
[13:19] <rick_h_> ok, I'm going to sound like a google fanboi or whatever, but wtf MS and company giong after android. You can have access to the source/android withuot the google bits, you just don't get access to the google bits.
[13:20] <rick_h_> iOS you don't get access to ANYTHING
[13:20] <brousch> context?
[13:21] <rick_h_> sorry, assumed everyone's been seeing the anti trust complaints brought up in the EU by MS, Nokia, Oracle, etc
[13:21] <rick_h_> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/04/09/google-microsoft-antitrust/2066403/ for instance
[13:24] <brousch> They are desperate
[13:26] <snap-l> rick_h_: Microsoft is using Google paranoia to try to get some anti-trust shit started.
[13:26] <snap-l> Any port in a storm, and all.
[13:44] <jrwren> if I was ms, I'd be kicking and scratching like that too.
[13:45] <jrwren> EU made them ship a version of their OS without browser, without media player - and for what?
[13:45] <jrwren> to waste time really.
[13:45] <jrwren> and cost court fees and stuff.
[13:45] <rick_h_> so the 'share the pain' idea then?
[13:45] <jrwren> Its pretty arguable that GOOG is even more entrenched in search than MS ever was in desktop computer.
[13:45] <jrwren> yes.
[13:45] <jrwren> share the pain.
[13:45] <brousch> I really can't blame MS for going after Google on mobile
[13:45] <jrwren> The government is crazy - it needs to beat up huge corporations equally.
[13:45] <rick_h_> I think the stats show it's not equal though
[13:46] <jrwren> i blame the EU
[13:46] <rick_h_> MS had over 95% back then if I recall
[13:46] <rick_h_> but yea, EU fail
[13:46] <rick_h_> google share end of '12 67%
[13:48] <snap-l> I do find it strangely satisfying that MS is bitching about OSS though.
[13:48] <rick_h_> MS is still over 90% market share according to wikipedia
[13:48] <snap-l> That's desktop
[13:49] <snap-l> They're nowhere near that in mobile
[13:49] <rick_h_> oh definitely
[13:49] <snap-l> and they're noticing that mobile is the new PC
[13:49] <rick_h_> but I'm comparing MS when they got in trouble with EU vs google's share of search
[13:49] <snap-l> I don't think that's a valid comparison
[13:50] <snap-l> you can switch search engines with a few keystrokes
[13:50] <snap-l> you can't change your OS nearly as easily.
[13:50] <rick_h_> ok, well just addressing jrwren above. :P
[13:50] <rick_h_> " Its pretty arguable that GOOG is even more entrenched in search than MS ever was in desktop computer."
[13:51] <rick_h_> this does seem to be a little bit like MS going after canonical by using it's free OS to go after music purchases, file storage users, etc
[13:56] <jrwren> the case isn't about google phone share, its about google search share.
[13:56] <jrwren> ms is going after canonical?
[13:58] <jrwren> I don't see where MS is bitching about OSS.
[13:58] <jrwren> snap-l: you reading between the lines somehwere?
[14:01] <jrwren> http://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
[15:26] <snap-l> jrwren: There was a mention of Android in that article.
[15:27] <jrwren> android is open source again?
[15:33] <brousch> :P
[16:37] <snap-l> Reminder: MUG Meeting tonight.
[16:38] <rick_h_droid> party
[16:44] <jhansonxi> A funding campaign for a 3D scanner (supports Linux): http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/photon-3d-scanner
[16:44] <greg-g> I'm lazy, are the designs all freely licensed?
[16:45] <jhansonxi> greg-g, are you referring to the scanner?
[16:45] <greg-g> yeppers
[16:47] <jhansonxi> No info about licensing so I think not.  Some of devs have open source experience.
[16:48] <jhansonxi> It's small but big enough for capturing 3D meshes of small models and household items for use in Blender.
[16:51] <jcastro> greg-g: thinking of you!
[16:51] <jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/VDPR0EI.jpg
[16:51] <greg-g> jhansonxi: sounds neat, I just have a policy against funding anything that isn't Freely licensed :)
[16:52] <greg-g> jcastro: you and you shavers, denying your manhood ;)
[16:52] <jcastro> :)
[16:53] <rick_h_> lol
[16:57] <rick_h_> so when we we move to Austin now? At least it should have better food than KC
[16:58] <greg-g> wait, google fiber in Austin now?
[16:58] <rick_h_> "mid-2014"
[16:58] <greg-g> also, KC has pretty good BBQ, not as good as Texas, I admit, though ;)
[16:59] <greg-g> hrmmmmmm, I doubt I can swing that with Carrie :)
[16:59] <rick_h_> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57578651-93/google-fiber-heads-to-austin/
[17:09] <Blazeix> well, if we have to move CHC due to Caribou issues, i suggest moving it to Austin, TX.
[17:09] <rick_h_> hah!
[17:12] <greg-g> hey, we're making changes anyways, just rip the bandaid off and do them all at once!
[17:12] <rick_h_> but it's not portland :P
[17:12]  * rick_h_ hates TX
[17:12] <greg-g> the only good thing in TX is a buddy of mine who moved to Austin recently
[17:13] <brousch> Sounds hot
[17:13] <rick_h_> I do hear Austin is unlines most of TX, but there's the whole heat issue
[17:13] <brousch> Too hot
[17:13] <rick_h_> yep
[17:25] <snap-l> But just think of it: you could saddle up some of the insects and fly to work
[17:25] <snap-l> It'd be like riding a pegasus, except 100x creepier
[17:28] <greg-g> snap-l: you ever tried to suggest music to the somafm djs?
[17:32]  * greg-g loves the heat
[17:33] <snap-l> greg-g: No, I haven't the foggiest how to do so
[17:34] <greg-g> there are emails for the djs listed, snap-l, so I'll just do that, just wondering if you know they are generally receptive/unreceptive (nevermind what their website says)
[17:34] <greg-g> Folk Forward has a really limited set of artists so far, I could send him like 20 names and it'll keep the same feel but be much less annoying (ugh, Ben Howard again?!)
[17:54] <rick_h_> greg-g: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104537541227697934010/posts/ZctvqrYf4sy !!! /me wants!
[17:55] <greg-g> rick_h_: that's awesome
[17:57] <jrwren> rick_h_: hahaha, you are gonna build that, aren't you?
[17:58] <rick_h_> jrwren: I mean come on, bottle of wine, some crackers. Ride bikes down to the park withthe wife. Tell me that doesn't get you badass husband points!
[17:58] <greg-g> haha
[17:58] <greg-g> I normally just use my pannier, but this is sexier
[17:58] <rick_h_> fold out table
[17:58] <brousch> Who can pick one of these up for me? http://blog.djangocircus.com/post/47543083800/django-pony-unchained-hoodies
[17:58] <jrwren> yup.
[17:59] <jcastro> that is awesome
[21:03] <snap-l> Linode just upped the memory on their offerings
[21:03] <snap-l> $20 for 1GB
[21:03] <brousch> nice
[22:49] <snap-l> Howdy.
[22:49] <rick_h_> party party
[22:50] <greg-g> I'm on a tall building roof with lyz (pleia2), it is super nice out here in SF, I'm kind hot in the sun
[22:50]  * rick_h_ looks out into the rainy 40deg day
[22:51] <greg-g> hey, we don't get many nice days here
[23:03] <snap-l> WE're out here at MUG. :)
[23:56] <snap-l> Hello weeds