[00:15] <mrooney> How many hours until beta freeze takes affect, or has it done so already?
[00:20] <binarymutant> before I create a debdiff from my debian package should I make it comply with ubuntu policy first?
[00:22] <cody-somerville> binarymutant, what do you think? :)
[00:23] <binarymutant> I think yes, but wouldn't it be easier to upload a brand new package to the sponsor queue?
[00:28] <cody-somerville> binarymutant, easier yes, production no
[00:29] <binarymutant> cody-somerville: thanks for the advice
[01:05] <binarymutant> I keep getting gpg errors when I run debdiff, how can I fix this?
[01:09] <cody-somerville> what are the errors?
[01:13] <binarymutant> cody-somerville: can't check signature: public key not found
[01:14] <cody-somerville> To make that stop appearing, you'd have to import the public keys used to sign the source packages you're debdiffing.
[01:14] <cody-somerville> I wouldn't worry about it
[01:16] <binarymutant> cody-somerville: thanks, I thought that it would be signed by me
[01:16] <cjwatson> binarymutant: it's complaining about the other one you're debdiffing against
[01:16] <cjwatson> there are two source packages involved, remember :)
[01:17] <binarymutant> cjwatson: they both are mine though, I guess it's the archive admin key
[01:17] <binarymutant> thanks for the help
[01:17] <cjwatson> no, the archive admin key does not sign .dsc files
[01:18] <brendon1> hello
[01:18] <cjwatson> however, if one of them was uploaded by a sponsor, then your sponsor probably re-signed the .dsc
[01:31] <Ampelbein> binarymutant: you can get around those errors by adding keyserver-options auto-key-retrieve and keyserver x-hkp://keys.gnupg.net:11371 to your ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf file. the keys are auto-imported then.
[01:32] <mrooney> There are just not enough MOTUs :)
[02:31] <binarymutant> Ampelbein: do you happen to have a link for gpg.conf
[02:31] <Ampelbein> binarymutant: ?
[02:32] <binarymutant> Ampelbein: for an example of gpg.conf or like a doc for it? I can't seem to find anything on it
[02:32] <Ampelbein> binarymutant: ah, now i get it: put http://paste.ubuntu.com/133375/ in your ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf
[02:32] <binarymutant> Ampelbein: ty ty :)
[03:54] <seclm193> hey all
[03:55] <seclm193> anyone in here talking?
[03:57] <brendon1> I'm here
[03:57] <seclm193> lol, ok
[03:57] <brendon1> and I seem to be talking
[03:57] <brendon1> what's happening?
[03:58] <seclm193> nothing, just decided to join the ubuntu development
[03:59] <seclm193> curious on where i need to get started?
[04:01] <mrooney> seclm193: well, it depends on what your skills are!
[04:01] <seclm193> i've been programming really in C++ and some java
[04:02] <brendon1> are you interested in focusing on applications or helping with everything in general?
[04:02] <seclm193> mostly C++, all projects have been school related
[04:02] <Hobbsee> !logs
[04:03] <seclm193> applications are what i am mostly interested
[04:03] <seclm193> in, but helping in general is fine also
[04:03] <mrooney> seclm193: the second link in the topic can be useful
[04:03] <seclm193> I just want to contribute
[04:03] <mrooney> if you want to help out triaging bugs, then #ubuntu-bugs is also a good place
[04:04] <seclm193> ok, kewl, this is my first open source project to work on, so i'm a little lost :(
[04:04] <mrooney> seclm193: here is a great overview! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
[04:04] <mrooney> it covers pretty much everything
[04:04] <seclm193> ok, nice
[04:05] <seclm193> as far as learning the in and outs of ubuntu, the bugs i guess would be the best thing
[04:06] <seclm193> i guess
[04:06] <brendon1> so I just started triaging at launchpad.  it's a good way to get a feel of the type ofproblems that ubuntu faces everyday.
[04:06] <brendon1> and by following the bugs you can learn a lot of pro-tips on how to fix things and understand the system better
[04:07] <seclm193> ok, kewl, that's what i really want to learn, the main programming in and outs of ubuntu so i can become a main stream developer of the system
[04:07] <brendon1> I also made a simple linux package with a makefile and learned how to turn it into a *.deb install file.
[04:08] <seclm193> out of all the linux systems I have messed with, ubuntu is the most and user friendly system available, in my opinion
[04:08] <brendon1> if you like C++ you can make a little "Hello World!" and then try to figure out how to make an official *.deb out of it to understand the software better
[04:09] <seclm193> lol, "Hello World" is a clasic. I'm not sure how many languages I've written that in. lol
[04:09] <brendon1> hehe.  like foo
[04:09] <seclm193> lol
[04:09] <brendon1> although foo might not be as popular as it used to be
[04:09] <seclm193> i've never used foo
[05:56] <Toadstool> g'morning
[06:04] <iulian> Morning.
[06:05] <dholbach> good morning
[06:07] <fabrice_sp__> good morning!
[06:09] <iulian> Hey guys.
[06:10] <fabrice_sp> Hey iulian
[06:12] <fabrice_sp> is it safe to send patches for python2.6 transition to debian?
[06:12] <fabrice_sp> or some of the macros in python.mk are specific to Ubuntu?
[06:14] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: best to ask doko - I'm sure he's going to be involved in the discussion there
[06:14] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, python2.6 seems not to be in Debian for the moment, so I'll wait
[07:05] <fabrice_sp> is it reasonable to sync 4 package from Debian to fix a non installable package (roundcube)? I know we are in FF :-)
[07:07] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: what happened there? we synced the one package which now wants those 4 packages and it just won't build/install without them?
[07:07] <fabrice_sp> (or bug #331944)
[07:07] <fabrice_sp> it builds, but it's not installable
[07:07] <fabrice_sp> the required packages cames after autosync to Debian
[07:08] <dholbach> I'm not on any of the release teams, but I'd presonally say: do it :-)
[07:08] <dholbach> best to get in touch with them
[07:09] <fabrice_sp> roundcube has been sync one month ago...
[07:09] <fabrice_sp> Ok: i'll create the FFe bugs then Thanks!
[07:09] <brendon> setting up an email server is probably the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life
[07:09] <fabrice_sp> BTW: one by missing package or only one with the 4 packages?
[07:10] <brendon> nothing works.  and then you finally get it working with no security.
[07:11] <ttx> brendon, yes, that rings a bell. That's why we proposed to deliver some postfix-dovecot pre-integrated setup in Jaunty.
[07:13] <brendon> that would be sweet.  Having control over your own mail server is a VERY nice thing IMO
[07:13] <brendon> courier?
[07:14] <ttx> brendon: no, postfix-dovecot. http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/an-improved-mail-server-stack-in-jaunty-dovecot-and-postfix-integration/
[07:31] <brendon> this will be an awesome upgrade.  I'll want to buy and install a server just to use it :D
[07:33] <doko> fabrice_sp: it's in experimental
[07:45] <fabrice_sp> doko, should we send the patch to Debian, then?
[07:46] <doko> fabrice_sp: which patch?
[07:47] <fabrice_sp> in general, changes in debian/rules to use dist-package or the macro (for example Bug 340827)
[07:49] <fabrice_sp> doko, ^
[07:50] <doko> fabrice_sp: IMO, not yet needed
[07:50] <fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks!
[08:19] <fabrice_sp> DktrKranz, about Bug #345263. This is one of the 4 packages required to install roundcube
[08:20] <fabrice_sp> I still have to open 3 sync request
[08:22] <fabrice_sp> btw, thanks to unsubscribe u-u-s: requestsync add it automatically...
[08:28] <DktrKranz> fabrice_sp: np. btw, do we need three more packages?
[08:33] <fabrice_sp> yes :-/
[08:34] <fabrice_sp> php-mdb2-driver-mysql, php-mdb2-driver-pgsql and hp-mdb2-driver-sqlite
[08:34] <fabrice_sp> DktrKranz, I got that from http://gaspa.yattaweb.it/issues/edos/jaunty_i386_edosresults.xml (and from trying ot install it also)
[08:35] <DktrKranz> fabrice_sp: ... and I don't think there's any other way to fix them in a safer way
[08:36] <fabrice_sp> DktrKranz, no, it don't seems so: upstream seems to have dropped support for db backend. But anyway, I'll try find previous patch and see if it can still be  applied
[08:36] <fabrice_sp> but in this case, a lot more test would be required
[08:37] <DktrKranz> exactly
[08:37] <fabrice_sp> so do I send the 3 additional sync requests?
[08:38] <fabrice_sp> (even if I'm not very fond of doing that at that step...)
[08:39] <DktrKranz> probably roundcube should have been postponed for karmic, but that is
[08:40] <DktrKranz> switch to a patched version seems way too risky than syncing four packages
[08:41] <DktrKranz> so I'm fine with this approach as long as you (or some interested people) have a good test at roundcube
[08:42] <fabrice_sp> ok
[08:42] <fabrice_sp> will try to get in touch with Lionel, as it seems to be the one that sync roundcube
[08:43] <lionel> yes, I made a wrong sync :(
[08:44] <lionel> DktrKranz: do you think it's FFe acceptable? It new, no reverse dep...
[08:44] <lionel> (should have done it before, but I have been realy busu at work)
[08:47] <DktrKranz> oh, salut lionel ;)
[08:48] <DktrKranz> I think there is no other way to fix it than approving those four new packages, it's a standalone app, so it won't break too much. Could you give a try too?
[08:49] <lionel> DktrKranz: now I have tested, yes it works
[08:49] <lionel> I'll fill a FFe for those packages today then
[08:52] <DktrKranz> ok
[08:54] <fabrice_sp> lionel, there is already on for php-mdb2 (Bug #345263)
[08:55] <DktrKranz> fabrice_sp: I pasted irc log in the bug report, feel free to do so for the three sync requests
[08:56] <fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks :-)
[08:57] <lionel> thanks fabrice_sp!
[08:57] <lionel> and thanks DktrKranz :)
[09:00]  * NCommander grumbles
[09:01] <fabrice_sp> lionel, do you want me to open the 3 additional sync request bug reports?
[09:01] <lionel> as you want, otherwise I'll do it after my current meeting :)
[09:02] <fabrice_sp> I let to you then ;-)
[09:02] <fabrice_sp> have a good meeting ! :-D
[09:59] <mcnicholls> hi
[10:00] <mcnicholls> a package i had sponsored has built on several architectures, but has failed to build on hppa. Am i guessing because there are missing depends in that arch?
[10:00] <mcnicholls> here is the failed build
[10:01] <mcnicholls> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-data-model/1.2.5-1ubuntu3/+build/911014
[10:13] <DktrKranz> mcnicholls: it's because some packages haven't built successfully for hppa
[10:13] <RainCT> heya
[10:14] <mcnicholls> DktrKranz: ok, do i need to do anything or will a rebuild be automatically reattempted at some point?
[10:14] <DktrKranz> hey RainCT :)
[10:15] <DktrKranz> mcnicholls: I'm not sure a full give-back on hppa is scheduled, but buildd-admins usually do them at some points.
[10:16] <mcnicholls> DktrKranz: "full give-back" being a full rebuild of the archive?
[10:16]  * RainCT is back to ext3 now for /, ext4 ate my file system (and it was less than 2 days old) :'(, btw
[10:16] <mcnicholls> RainCT: oh dear. I have been running it for a few weeks and it has been ok.
[10:16] <DktrKranz> RainCT: heh, I switched to unstable last night, I used ext3 to use ext4 in the future: bad choice?
[10:17] <DktrKranz> mcnicholls: only for failed to build ones
[10:18] <Laney> RainCT: It wasn't ext4, it was me. Sorry, I was hungry. But on the plus side, your files were taaaaaaaassty
[10:18] <RainCT> hahaha
[10:19] <Laney> http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/ much like these
[10:19] <DktrKranz> Laney: did you run fsck to see if there were bad blocks? You may suffer stomachache
[10:19] <DktrKranz> but I agree with you inodes are tasty
[10:20] <mcnicholls> DktrKranz: ok. so is it bad that it won't build or is it normal that this occurs? should i do anything about it or tell anyone?
[10:21] <RainCT> I updated from ext3->ext4 some weeks ago and everything was working great, but recently I reinstalled (so that ext4's features are actually used) and then everything started to fail.. first the one with ~/Development being empty and fsck fixing it, and then twice it couldn't read / (a different partition) anymore and the system hard crashed (fsck also fixed) and yesterday (well, actually this morning :P) it switched to read only and after rebooti
[10:21] <RainCT> and I'm sure IRC has just eaten part of my message :P
[10:22] <broonie>  and after rebooti...
[10:22]  * DktrKranz thinks it's all about eating today
[10:22] <RainCT> after rebooting I got "grub error 17"  and fsck from live cd found thousands of errors which on the  next run after fixing them (pressing enter for like 10 minutes)  would be there again :/
[10:23] <DktrKranz> cool
 :P
[10:24]  * DktrKranz would like to see XFS more compatible with grub
[10:24] <DktrKranz> I was unable to move my / to it
[10:24] <DktrKranz> grub complains
[10:24]  * RainCT refrains from telling horror stories about grub2 :P
[10:25]  * DktrKranz doesn't want to hear
[10:25] <dholbach> Laney: that page is digusting
[10:26] <Laney> dholbach: haha, too right
[10:26] <Laney> although the huge oreo somewhere in there...
[10:26]  * dholbach shudders
[10:26] <Laney> I really hope people don't actually eat this stuff
[10:27] <RainCT> DktrKranz: anyway, at least my PC boots even faster now than with ext4 o_O   (well, or perhaps my internal timer just got destroyed... yes... why are you looking like that?... i am to lazy to use a clock!)
[10:30] <lionel> DktrKranz: XFS eat some files too many times for me (I use to be a XFS-lover). Now that ext3 has ACL, I'm fine with ext3 :)
[11:08] <DktrKranz> RainCT: if RAM will turn to be a good storage system, I think FS won't matter :)
[11:21] <RainCT> heh
[11:55] <ia> hello. i have a question about apport implementation. if i make apport-cli -f -p <package>, then it gathers information and takes me via my browser at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package/+filebug/ID. so, the question is, does exist some way to change that url to https://bugs.launchpad.net/package/+filebug/ID ? for example, if i make some project, and would like use lp with apport, but my package is not in ubuntu.
[13:26] <savvas> does pasted text on paste.ubuntu.com expire?
[13:54] <ni|> good morning
[13:54] <slytherin> ni|: good morning
[13:54] <ni|> hey slytherin , whatsup?
[13:55] <slytherin> ni|: not much going on. :-)
[13:55] <ni|> slytherin: i have an init script thats not working
[13:55] <ni|> could you maybe help me with it a bit?
[13:56] <ni|> i'm not even getting a usage report!
[13:57] <slytherin> ni|: nah, not my field.
[13:57] <ni|> aww
[13:57] <ni|> anywhere you can think of i can find someone to help me?
[13:57] <RainCT> how can I tell aptitude to install ubuntu-restricted-extras without flashplugin-nonfree?
[13:58] <bddebian> Heya gang
[13:58] <ni|> RainCT: are you good with init scripts?
[13:59] <slytherin> RainCT: if it is a dependency then you can't.
[13:59] <slytherin> RainCT: yes it is actually dependency
[14:00] <RainCT> ah right, I had to uninstall it last time..
[14:01] <RainCT> uhm.. didn't packages in section "metapackages" allow to be installed with missing dependencies?
[14:01] <RainCT> *it's not a dependency, but a recommends
[14:02] <slytherin> RainCT: sorry, my mistake, it is indeed recommends
[14:02] <slytherin> RainCT: but I don't know how not to install recommends in aptitude. aptitude interface is too complicated for me.
[14:02] <RainCT> --no-install-recommends, but this way I won't get anything
[14:03] <RainCT> iirc there's also something like =pkgname but
[14:03] <RainCT> I've tried that and it didn't work, so it probably is something else
[14:03] <RainCT> anyway, I'll just install what I want manually
[14:03] <Laney> you could use pinning, but I doln't know how to do it in aptitude :(
[14:04] <RainCT> Don't apt-get and aptitude use the same pinning settings?
[14:04] <Laney> yeah
[14:04] <Laney> I mean that pinning will work, but I couldn't tell you how to do it otherwise
[14:04] <joaopinto> pinning is APT specific
[14:05] <RainCT> right
[14:06] <ni|> stupid init scripts
[14:06] <RainCT> ni|: what problem do you have?
[14:06] <ni|> i cannot get to a Usage print
[14:06] <ni|> it seems the script jsut returns 0 and doesn't do anything
[14:06] <Laney> can't you just copy what another working init script does?
[14:07] <ni|> Laney: i've tried :) thats how i started
[14:07] <slytherin> RainCT: In my opinion the only thing that will need to be installed manually these days is ms fonts. For everything else, installation should be triggred as need arises.
[14:07] <ni|> http://www.pastie.org/private/wuleto3riecw8bkelthva
[14:08] <RainCT> pinning doesn't work :/
[14:08] <RainCT> slytherin: Probably, but I prefer to get everything just from the start and not have to worry about it later
[14:09] <ni|> i've figured it out
[14:09] <ni|> thangs
[14:12] <theholyduck> RainCT, but what if you dont WANT all the extra optional useless cruft?
[14:12] <theholyduck> ofcourse you wouldnt be running ubuntu at all then
[14:12] <theholyduck> but still
[14:12] <RainCT> theholyduck: then don't install it :)
[14:13] <RainCT> theholyduck: I was speaking about package ubuntu-restricted-extras, which is just provided as a convePATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin
[14:13] <RainCT> DESC="Dexrex Message Daemon"
[14:13] <RainCT> NAME="DexrexExtentions"
[14:13] <RainCT> arrr damn irssi
[14:14] <theholyduck> RainCT, lalz
[14:14] <RainCT> * I was speaking about packag
[14:14] <theholyduck> thats1 hell of a path
[14:14] <RainCT> e ubuntu-restricted-extras, which is just a convenience way to install some usually needed proprietary stuff. it isn't installed by default
[14:15] <theholyduck> RainCT, flash, etc?
[14:15] <RainCT> theholyduck: Yes. Flash, audio codecs, Java, etc.
[14:15] <theholyduck> java is restricted? isnt the newest ones pretty open source?
[14:15]  * RainCT wonders why sun-java6 is still used when there's the FOSS one
[14:16] <RainCT> theholyduck: there is a restricted and a free version, which afaik are pretty much the same
[14:16] <RainCT> (to complete my previous list, MS's fonts and unrar are also installed)
[14:16] <theholyduck> RainCT, ;) rar is zeh evil.
[14:16] <RainCT> hehe
[14:17] <theholyduck> doesnt p7zip-full include a rar tool?
[14:17] <theholyduck> along with all sorts of extra archive formats
[14:17] <jdong> theholyduck: I doubt it covers really recent RAR though.
[14:17] <RainCT> Also for compression?
[14:17] <jdong> and Java *IS* still restricted AFAIK
[14:18] <jdong> while the OpenJDK implementation is FOSS (reasonably) sun still has patents covering Java and trademarks doing the same.
[14:18] <theholyduck> "not only does it handle 7z but also ZIP, Zip64, CAB, RAR, ARJ, GZIP, BZIP2, TAR, CPIO, RPM, ISO and DEB archives. 7z compression is 30-50% better than ZIP compression."
[14:18] <theholyduck> or so says apt
[14:18] <jdong> i.e. If I intentionally made an OpenJdongK that was intentionally incompatible with Java but claimed to be, I would probably get sued by Sun
[14:18] <jdong> techno_freak: probably RAR2.
[14:19] <jdong> wrong ping.
[14:19] <jdong> I don't believe there's a FOSS implementation of the newest RAR on-disk format yet
[14:19] <jdong> (unrar-nonfree supports it)
[14:19] <jdong> it's often used in the... underworld... to compress >4GB files
[14:22] <slytherin> I wonder why rar format is still even relevant.
[14:22] <theholyduck> slytherin, people use it
[14:22] <theholyduck> there is a reason bluray supports mpeg2 video. people still use it
[14:23] <theholyduck> no matter how shitty it is
[14:23] <jdong> slytherin: it's faster and nearly as well compressing as 7z.
[14:23] <slytherin> RainCT: openjdk is still not same as sun java.
[14:23] <jdong> plus it does not use 4+GB RAM compressing to reach its best compression ratio
[14:23] <jdong> (I'm not saying I support the crazy idea of archiving data in a patented and proprietary format...)
[14:25] <slytherin> I suppose not many people know about 7z format, hence they use rar.
[14:27] <jdong> slytherin: I don't think it's just that
[14:28] <jdong> 7z is roughly twice as slow at its max compression ratio and uses 3+GB RAM to do its work, compared to RAR which is relatively fast and uses less than 1GB RAM.
[14:28] <jdong> RAR also has built-in parity capabilities which are attractive in the underground file distribution community
[14:29] <jdong> theholyduck: ok, looking at 7z's packaging, p7zip-full does support all of RAR at the expense of licensing the proprietary decoder and being non-free.
[14:29] <theholyduck> jdong, but it includes more stuff by default atleast
[14:30] <theholyduck> so you can use it for all sorts of packaging
[14:30] <theholyduck> instead of just rar
[14:30] <c_korn> how can I make a diff/debdiff that only contens differences in text files and skips binaries?
[14:31] <jdong> well, yes, but IMO p7zip's CLI is *SO* screwed up in the mind that I'd rather have my 20+ other unzipping tools.
[14:31] <jdong>  tar cf -  directory  |  7za  a  -si foo.tar.7z
[14:31] <jdong> ??? who thought of that?
[14:40] <theholyduck> jdong, who knows :D
[14:40] <theholyduck> jdong, “When the Patriarch McIlroy invented the pipe, he knew that it would transform software, but did not know that it would transform mind.” (and create stupid?"
[16:35] <ni|> hey
[16:35] <ni|> i have a program that is 4.7 MB
[16:35] <ni|> but the deb is only 128k
[16:35] <ni|> fail.
[16:37] <ni|> any reason why that would be happening
[16:38] <directhex> ni|, the package doesn't contain the required file?
[16:38] <ni|> nope
[16:38] <ni|> so weird
[16:38] <ni|> debuild -i -us -uc -b
[16:39] <ni|> debian  DesktopIcon128.png  DesktopIcon24.png  DesktopIconG128.png  DexrexExtensions
[16:39] <ni|> thats what ls looks like
[16:39] <ni|> dexrexextensions is 4.7 MB
[16:42] <ni|> directhex: ^
[16:43] <directhex> your debian/install is correct?
[16:44] <ni|> yes
[16:44] <ni|> directhex: can i PM it to you?
[16:44] <ni|> or pastie it?
[16:44] <ni|> http://www.pastie.org/private/id6657gytn3apbrbp6pjwa
[16:44] <directhex> pastebin things. asking for private help in a channel of 237 people is silly
[16:45] <ni|> i did...
[16:45] <directhex> and those files are all in debian/tmp, or placed there by your "install" rule?
[16:45] <ni|> i'm using CDBS
[16:46] <ni|> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[16:46] <ni|> thats all that is in rules
[16:46] <ni|> thanks for helping me :)
[16:47] <directhex> CDBS is black magic. overriding it hurts. someone else may know the right chickens to sacrifice to make it do things
[16:48] <ni|> i mean what else is required oO its a binary -- i just put it in a folder dexrex-extensions-1.0
[16:49] <ni|> debian in there and all the binaries in there
[16:49] <ni|> correct?
[16:49] <leleobhz> may you need change your install script to install it inside debian/packagename ?
[16:49] <ni|> ?
[20:03] <adelie42>  I was looking at information about becoming an Ubuntu member here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership. I do not know how to make a personal page. Is there someone here that might be able to point me in the right direction? I know I am not ready, but I would like to begin building a resume of my current projects for when I do apply
[20:04] <Laney> adelie42: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YourWikiUserName
[20:05] <adelie42> Thank you!
[20:05] <adelie42> Yet another page I haven't registered for.  )
[20:06] <adelie42> oh good, it sees I am logged into launchpad
[20:41] <sladen> adelie42: welcome to your new Launchpad overlord!
[20:42] <adelie42> I for one welcome our new launchpad overlord sladen
[21:33] <ia> hello. i have a question about apport implementation. if i make apport-cli -f -p <package>, then it gathers information and takes me via my browser at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package/+filebug/ID. so, the question is, does exist some way to change that url to https://bugs.launchpad.net/package/+filebug/ID ? for example, if i make some project, and would like use lp with apport, but my package is not in ubuntu.
[21:41] <jpds> ia: I'd talk to pitti about that in #ubuntu-devel
[21:44] <mrooney> can anyone tell me how I might apply a git diff such as http://cgit.krandor.org/cgit.cgi?url=workrave/diff/&h=branch_v1_9&id=33f01a179da87e27dca3d57662872ef7077efb22
[21:45] <mrooney> I'd like to get a fix for bug 310551 in a PPA unless someone else can fix it, otherwise that app is completely and utterly broken in jaunty
[21:45] <mrooney> since it is an RSI app it kind of needs those events :)
[21:46] <Laney> mrooney: You can prepare a patch for sponsorship if you're so inclined
[21:46] <Laney> then it will get in for sure
[21:46] <mrooney> Laney: well that is sort of what I was initially asking, how do I turn that diff --git into a patch
[21:46] <mrooney> do you know how?
[21:46] <Laney> sure
[21:47] <mrooney> oh boy can you enlighten me :)
[21:47] <Laney> essentially you download the package, figure out what patch system it's using (if any; add one if none), import the upstream fix, make sure it applies cleanly, build and test!
[21:47] <mrooney> Laney: hm I am not sure, if I am asking the question right or something
[21:48] <mrooney> that link I gave, is a git diff
[21:48] <mrooney> how I apply it to the source
[21:48] <Laney> save the diff to a file
[21:48] <mrooney> yes I have done, and I have the source
[21:48] <Laney> and then import it into the package
[21:48] <Laney> hold up
[21:48] <mrooney> k :)
[21:48] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[21:50] <dtchen> hint: workrave does not use a patch management system.
[21:51] <mrooney> dtchen: yes that is what I suspected
[21:51] <Laney> well adding one is fairly trivial
[21:51] <dtchen> (so just take http://cgit.krandor.org/cgit.cgi?url=workrave/patch/&id=33f01a179da87e27dca3d57662872ef7077efb22 and apply it)
[21:53] <mrooney> hrmph
[21:53] <mrooney> hm so should I add a patch system or just patch the source?
[21:53] <mrooney> I am fairly new to MOTU works :)
[21:53] <dtchen> patch the source
[21:54] <dtchen> accepted practice is to not introduce a patching system
[21:54] <dtchen> we flamed back and forth about this issue years ago
[21:54]  * Laney flames forth once more
[21:54] <Laney> I'd patch it and just send the raw diff to the Debian maintainer
[21:55] <Laney> but who am I to challenge the orthodoxy :)
[21:55] <Laney> s/patch it/add a patchsys/
[21:56] <dtchen> remember the changes always appear in the diff.gz regardless.
[21:56] <dtchen> in the past, i've been a lot more lenient earlier in the dev cycle. as beta and rc freeze loom, eyeball-ability matters.
[21:57] <dtchen> heck, i'm pushing a lot of changes to post-release just due to that.
[21:57] <mrooney> dtchen: okay so then I guess I am back to my original question, I've saved that diff but don't know how to apply it
[21:57] <dtchen> use patch(1)
[21:57] <mrooney> I tried patch -p0 hoping it would work
[21:57] <dtchen> hoping sounds like a bad idea.
[21:57] <mrooney> perhaps I am making some mistake, would you expect that diff to apply with patch?
[21:58] <Laney> dtchen: What do you mean? We'd be reviewing a debdiff either way
[21:58]  * mrooney pours water on the flames
[21:58] <Laney> not flaming, just curious
[21:58] <mrooney> :)
[21:59] <dtchen> Laney: it's largely moot for this patch. ask raof if you want an idea of smaller is better (cf. xserver-xgl)
[22:00] <dtchen> mrooney: have you extracted the source package?
[22:00] <mrooney> anyway it is upstream so the next sync will get it
[22:00] <mrooney> dtchen: well, hm, isn't it extracted automatically?
[22:01] <dtchen> mrooney: you cannot assume everyone is running the release you are.
[22:01] <mrooney> what is the directory I get when apt-get source? Isn't that the source?
[22:01] <dtchen> mrooney: that's the parent directory containing the sources. it's also the parent directory of the extracted source.
[22:01] <mrooney> or should I extract the .orig?
[22:02] <mrooney> right so I mean, don't I want to apply it in that extracted source?
[22:02] <dtchen> yes, you do.
[22:02] <mrooney> I am confused then, what was I supposed to extract?
[22:02] <dtchen> the source package.
[22:02] <dtchen> dpkg-source -x workrave_1.9.0-6.dsc
[22:02]  * mrooney steps away for a brief minute
[22:02] <dtchen> (again, you can't assume the signature is present. if it isn't, dget will not extract the source package)
[22:03] <dtchen> :~/Code/sponsor/workrave-1.9.0$ patch -p1 --dry-run <../foo.diff
[22:03] <dtchen> patching file backend/src/unix/X11InputMonitor.cc
[22:03] <dtchen> patching file backend/src/unix/X11InputMonitor.hh
[22:25] <mrooney> dtchen: how are you saving that patch, just copying it from the web, in the link I sent?
[22:26] <mrooney> I am getting errors like patch: **** malformed patch at line 6: // X11InputMonitor.cc --- ActivityMonitor for X11
[22:26] <dtchen> are you asking how i got the raw diff?
[22:26] <dtchen> if so - i took your url, clicked commit, then clicked patch
[22:27] <fmarier> mrooney: about the workrave bug you just commented on (LP #310551), do you think it should be fixed in Unstable and then request a sync for Jaunty?
[22:28] <mrooney> dtchen: yes, thanks :)
[22:28] <dtchen> fmarier: that would be the best way, yes.
[22:28] <fmarier> alright, I'll try to find some time to prepare and test an updated package today...
[22:28] <Laney> haha
[22:28] <dtchen> mrooney: (the url to the raw diff was also given above)
[22:29] <mrooney> oh yes, it was, sorry :/
[22:29] <mrooney> I looked at it quickly and thought it was just the link I originally sent
[22:38] <mrooney> is there a way to pass -j2 to make through debuild?
[22:40] <mrooney> oh it looks like debuild -j2 :)
[22:45] <mrooney> fmarier: I'd love to learn more about MOTU and would be happy to do as much as possible
[22:45] <mrooney> I applied the patch, built the deb, and confirmed that it fixes the issue
[23:45] <RenatoKrause> Hi! Im from Brazil and need meet the mentor for help in Ubuntu. Im very intersting.


[16:54] <Rocket2DMn> Meeting in 5 minutes?
[16:57] <j1mc> meeting in a few minutes
[16:58] <Rocket2DMn> hey j1mc , how are you?
[16:59] <j1mc> hi there, Rocket2DMn :)
[16:59] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: you are Connor, right?
[16:59] <Rocket2DMn> yup
[17:00] <mdke> evening chaps
[17:00] <j1mc> hello, mdke
[17:00] <Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , long time no see, hope you are well
[17:00] <mdke> happy new year
[17:01] <mdke> not bad thanks, how are you guys?
[17:01] <j1mc> same to you!
[17:01] <j1mc> pretty good here. :)
[17:01] <Rocket2DMn> doing well here
[17:01] <mdke> hey philbull
[17:01] <j1mc> philbull: o/
[17:01] <philbull> hey
[17:02] <j1mc> so far we have myself, philbull, mdke, Rocket2DMn ... anyone else?
[17:04] <j1mc> shall we get started?
[17:04] <mdke> sure
[17:04] <philbull> yep
[17:05] <j1mc> so, i think that the options around the docs have been pretty well hashed-out on the mailing list
[17:06] <j1mc> does anyone have anything to add re: copyright assignment agreement
[17:07] <Pendulum> I have a question, how is this going to effect future people who want to be involved with docs and want to write unity documentation?
[17:07] <mdke> I think that at the moment, enough core contributors object to copyright assignment that we should format plans on the basis that it should not be required
[17:07] <Pendulum> I realise that as a whole the team doesn't want to be involved with it, but does that mean that they'd have to have a separate project?
[17:08] <mdke> Pendulum: I guess that depends on how we decide to proceed. We're not talking about not being involved with unity documentation. If Ubuntu uses Unity, and we're writing documentation for Ubuntu, we'll need to write for Unity
[17:08] <j1mc> Pendulum: i don't think that there would need to be a "unity docs team," but there would be a unity-docs repository
[17:08] <Pendulum> okay, that makes sense. I just wasn't clear :)
[17:08] <mdke> j1mc: would there?
[17:08] <philbull> I had some emails about this from Canonical people
[17:09] <Pendulum> (and as it's about to come up that my team -the accessibility team- is going to be looking for some documentation guidance soon specifically Unity-related)
[17:09] <philbull> They said they'd talk to me in the New Year
[17:09] <philbull> (don't know when; guess they're pretty busy about now)
[17:09] <Rocket2DMn> Would upstream unity documentation exist in the gnome-user-docs?
[17:09] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't see how it can; unity hasn't been accepted into gnome as far as I understand
[17:09] <philbull> Rocket2DMn: No, it won't
[17:10] <j1mc> mdke: if someone wanted to explicity document unity only, i would think that there would need to be a repository for that
[17:10] <shaunm> Pendulum: how much of the accessibility user experience will be the same as with stock gnome in a unity-using ubuntu?
[17:10] <philbull> The gnome-user-docs will be firmly based on gnome-shell
[17:10] <mdke> j1mc: that would be an upstream issue I guess
[17:10] <Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks, i wasn't sure if Gnome was using Unity
[17:10] <Pendulum> shaunm: they're having to write an accessibility framework for Unity so we're not even sure yet because there functionality hasn't made it in yet
[17:11] <Pendulum> (it's due Alpha2)
[17:11] <shaunm> ok
[17:11] <shaunm> Pendulum: but given all the atk bridges and such, orca would still be used for screen reading and braille, yes?
[17:11] <mdke> philbull: I don't think you have commented on the mailing list about the various options, I was interested to find out how you see things
[17:12] <Pendulum> shaunm: orca yes, but I'm not sure any decision has been made about some of the other things -- but I suspect this is a larger conversation that should come outside of this meeting :)
[17:12] <j1mc> mdke: upstream being "unity developers" in this case?
[17:12] <philbull> mdke: First of all, I'm tremendously pissed off about the whole thing
[17:12] <mdke> j1mc: I guess so
[17:12] <philbull> The copyright assignment thing is really divisive
[17:13] <philbull> Whatever we do, we risk wasting our time
[17:13] <mdke> well
[17:13] <zkriesse> Oh doc meeting?
[17:13] <mdke> that's the case of any contributions to Ubuntu, it's not a documentation specific issue
[17:13] <philbull> true
[17:13] <mdke> I feel the same way, but I think it's not a documentation issue specifically
[17:14] <philbull> Yes, but we need to talk about the docs here
[17:14] <mdke> sure
[17:14] <philbull> Ideally, they'd stop requiring the CCA
[17:14] <czajkowski> aye the same could be said about a patch
[17:15] <philbull> My worry is that the same thing will happen with the Unity docs as happened with the gnome-app-install/software-center docs
[17:15] <philbull> We had docs for that, and someone at Canonical just wrote their own and put them directly in the package
[17:15] <j1mc> philbull: i wasn't aware of that
[17:16] <j1mc> philbull: did someone request the ubuntu-doc author(s) to sign the copyright agreement?
[17:16] <philbull> j1mc: Yes, the docs for software-center weren't written by the Ubuntu Docs team!
[17:16] <mdke> mpt wrote them, iirc
[17:16] <philbull> j1mc: Not in that case. As far as I'm aware, we didn't even hear about them
[17:17] <Rocket2DMn> Quick question guys - are there currently any docs for Unity in any format?
[17:17] <mdke> not as far as I know
[17:17] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: not that i'm aware of... are there any docs from the netbook edition that used the Unity layout?
[17:18] <Rocket2DMn> Not sure, I'm afraid I've been out of the loop a fair amount since we released Lucid
[17:19] <Rocket2DMn> Never did any netbook documentation either
[17:19] <mdke> philbull: that particular issue may have been a problem of lack of communication between docteam and development team; here I think we have a more subtle issue
[17:19] <philbull> mdke: Perhaps, but I wanted to point out that there is precedent
[17:19] <mdke> which is that reasons of principle might prevent us from contributing upstream or to the package
[17:20] <mdke> realistically is there any other option than modifying ubuntu-docs to fit unity and carrying on as before?
[17:20] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, tbh, if you can ever get a development team to communicate effectively and in a timely manner with a doc team,, you're achieving something that few groups have been able to pull off and maintain
[17:20] <j1mc> let's say that canonical develops their own unity-docs package, would it be possible to integrate our docs with it?
[17:21] <Rocket2DMn> Sorry if that sounds skeptical
[17:21] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i think that is a problem of many developer/documentor relationships - not just in ubuntu / canonical.
[17:22] <mdke> j1mc: I guess it depends on how it is done. If they follow a similar strategy to gnome-user-docs, and write in Mallard, then I suppose there is no reason why not
[17:22] <Rocket2DMn> j1mc, yes, and as a professional software dev, I know both sides of it
[17:22] <philbull> j1mc: Yes, it wouldn't be as pretty, but it would work
[17:22] <philbull> Especially if they use Mallard. We can just symlink it in (although there may be subtle licensing issues there)
[17:23] <dhillon-v10> philbull: ping
[17:24] <j1mc> philbull: good point re: licensing issues
[17:24] <philbull> mdke: Realistically, I don't think there is any other option but to modify ubuntu-docs
[17:24] <mdke> philbull: me neither
[17:25] <philbull> The modifications wouldn't be too difficult for the most part
[17:25] <philbull> We'd just replace all of the launching instructions with Unity-specific ones
[17:25] <mdke> I haven't tried Unity yet. Is it easy to run in a VM?
[17:25] <mdke> I think I've read that it isn't
[17:25] <philbull> Although there is the issue of the fallback GNOME 2 UI...
[17:26] <j1mc> mdke: like gnome-shell, i don't think it can be run in a VM
[17:26] <Pendulum> j1mc: that's the experience I've had
[17:26] <shaunm> philbull: we don't even have a good docs story for fallback in gnome
[17:26] <Rocket2DMn> I think Unity required 3d acceleration which could make it difficult to run in a VM depending on your setup
[17:26] <Pendulum> there might be a version of virtualbox that will do it
[17:26] <Pendulum> but most VMs can't do the 3D acceleration
[17:27] <mdke> philbull: as to fallback, I think the first thing is to document the default; we have only rarely documented non-default software
[17:27] <Rocket2DMn> Pendulum, i think you're right that vbox can, i'm not sure how good it is though.  Regardless of performance, as long as we can get it to run we can document it
[17:27] <Pendulum> yeah
[17:28] <philbull> mdke: The thing is, lots of people will be experiencing the fallback!
[17:28] <mdke> philbull: really?
[17:28] <philbull> I think so, yes
[17:28] <mdke> oh dear
[17:28] <philbull> It depends on whether graphics acceleration is well-supported, I think
[17:28] <Pendulum> it is also in some ways less of a fallback this time and more of a choice. Both will actually be an option when you log in from the default install
[17:28] <philbull> I've plenty of experience with chipsets that don't like Compiz
[17:29] <mdke> shaunm: can you think of any easy way to provide alternative documentation depending on the desktop used? I can't
[17:29] <philbull> conditionals again...
[17:29] <j1mc> could we just provide a somewhat updated version (or a version with some "note" admonitions) of our current docs for that?
[17:29] <j1mc> ... for the fallback?
[17:29] <mdke> j1mc: the difficulty is how to figure out when it should be shown and when the unity version should be shown
[17:30] <shaunm> mdke: easy way? no, I can't. ideally, the fallback experience would be something that mimics the full experience closely enough that most textual instructions are still correct. but that's not what's happening
[17:30] <j1mc> perhaps provide a topic... if you are using the two-panel gnome layout... use these docs...
[17:30] <mdke> shaunm: nod
[17:31] <mdke> will gnome-shell have similar fallback issues as unity?
[17:31] <shaunm> yes
[17:31] <mdke> doh
[17:31] <mdke> so yelp can't pick up which desktop is being used?
[17:31] <philbull> There is an easy (but hacky) way
[17:32] <shaunm> I'm sure we could figure out a way for yelp to know what desktop shell you're using. an x window property or envar or something.
[17:32] <philbull> We have a script that detects the desktop and launches Yelp with the right documents open
[17:33] <shaunm> if the writers actually have the time to create and maintain dual docs like that, I'll figure out the technical end in yelp
[17:33] <mdke> will the next version of Ubuntu have yelp 3 or yelp 2?
[17:34] <shaunm> I would think 3, but I don't know for certain
[17:34] <mdke> hope so
[17:34] <philbull> If we're shipping GNOME3 apps, we'll be able to ship Yelp 3
[17:35] <mdke> anyway, as you say, it's quite a heavy burden to maintain two sets of docs
[17:35] <mdke> apart from the need to figure out how they should live alongside each other and where they should share the same material
[17:35] <Pendulum> Maybe it's a good time to do some serious recruitment? I know I'm far from the only person who has been interested in documentation for ages but felt like other than wiki work, it was difficult to get involved
[17:36] <mdke> yes, this is something we've struggled with for a long time
[17:37] <Rocket2DMn> There are a lot of things people need to learn to contribute - bzr (and version control in general), docbook, update and release processes, etc
[17:38] <Pendulum> Right, but I have to say that in the past year it's seemed to me that rather than try to teach new people, the default thing has been "here this is what you can do on the wiki". I wonder if there's a way to do doc papercuts so that there are some small things that are easier to use as tools to teach newcomers
[17:39] <shaunm> question: will the gnome 2 fallback be more or less the same in ubuntu as in gnome-shell?
[17:39] <Rocket2DMn> Pendulum, before we get into that discussion, is there more we want to talk about for Unity?
[17:39] <mdke> I'm sure we can do a lot better in that direction
[17:39] <mdke> anyway, before we can figure out how to make contributing easier, we need to figure out what we are going to work on ourselves
[17:39] <mdke> shaunm: I would assume so but don't know for sure
[17:39] <Pendulum> shaunm: as far as I've heard, yes
[17:40] <shaunm> (aside from the differences that already exist, which aren't trivial from a docs perspective)
[17:40] <mdke> indeed
[17:42] <mdke> are the differences so great as to make it impossible to ship single documentation which can be used for both environments?
[17:43] <j1mc> mdke: by "both environments," you mean unity and the gnome2 layout?
[17:43] <mdke> if the differences are just about how to open things or where to find things, we might be able to explain how to do those actions on both desktops, and keep the rest of our language neutral and just refer back to those topics when necessary
[17:43] <mdke> j1mc: yeah
[17:44] <shaunm> in my (limited) experience with unity, it didn't even offer an easy way to get to nautilus. it just has that Files screen. that's a huge chunk of the docs
[17:44] <j1mc> i think that having, "if you are using this desktop, do this..." and "if you are using that desktop, do that..." gets pretty cumbersome as a reader, though.
[17:45] <mdke> j1mc: yes, that's certainly not what I had in mind
[17:45] <j1mc> i experience that at my work, where different teams are using different releases of the same platform, so they have to follow different instructions
[17:46] <j1mc> ... we have 15 min left on our hour's time
[17:46] <mdke> but if we can do instructions like "Open X", with "Open" being a link on how to open applications on each environment, then we at least keep the differences in self-contained places
[17:47] <mdke> perhaps we should experiment a bit with Unity in order to get some ideas about this issue
[17:47] <shaunm> I could add conditional processing in the yelp 3 time frame, but: (1) do people have the time and inclination to maintain conditional docs, (2) the current conditional processing proposal has no way to push or replace contents, which means unity instructions either have to be put into gnome docs, or you'd have to patch
[17:48] <j1mc> yes, i tried alpha1 on my laptop for a bit. i couldn't get unity to work, though.
[17:48] <philbull> I think the plan with Unity might be to go with Zeitgeist/Activity Journal instead of nautilus
[17:48] <philbull> not sure, though
[17:50] <philbull> How about this:
[17:50] <philbull> We do a simple overview of Unity, discussing basic usage
[17:51] <philbull> We replace the "Gnome Shell Overview" in the new GNOME desktop help with that by manually patching it out (no need for Mallard conditionals)
[17:52] <philbull> The desktop help will give us topics on connecting to the internet, managing files and folders, and so on
[17:52] <Rocket2DMn> Another issue that could pop up if we are to select different documentation to display depending on the environment, is how do we deploy our html docs?
[17:52] <philbull> That will give us functional, if incomplete, help
[17:53] <mdke> philbull: when you say desktop help, are you talking about ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs?
[17:53] <philbull> gnome-user-docs
[17:53] <j1mc> philbull: the new ones that are being worked-on now?
[17:53] <mdke> so would you jettison ubuntu-docs entirely?
[17:53] <philbull> j1mc: yes
[17:54] <philbull> mdke: Not all of it, but lots of it is already obsolete
[17:54] <mdke> do you think that gnome help is going to be suitable for adoption in that way?
[17:55] <philbull> mdke: Yes, i think so
[17:55] <mdke> my concern is that Ubuntu seems to moving away from Gnome, rather than closer, so if we are moving in the opposite direction, that might not work in the long term
[17:55] <j1mc> mdke: correct, but using what gnome has right now as a jumping-off point would work
[17:55] <philbull> mdke: true, but the GNOME desktop-help is currently split into a number of topic areas
[17:56] <j1mc> ubuntu-docs wouldn't need to stay synced with gnome-shell/gnome-user-docs on an ongoing basis
[17:56] <philbull> we can take whatever is relevant, and its Mallardyness will allow us to do that without too much patching
[17:56] <mdke> is it reasonably complete?
[17:56] <j1mc> but having those mallard topics as a starting point would be helpful
[17:56] <philbull> mdke: Not yet, we need help!
[17:56] <mdke> ok. This is definitely an interesting idea
[17:57] <mdke> although we need to give more thought to it than is available at this meeting, I suspect. In particular we should focus on whether patching in/out material will raise the barrier to entry
[17:57] <Rocket2DMn> I like this, if I'm understanding correctly, we'll be able to use more upstream documentation on basic usage which can replace material we already have
[17:57] <j1mc> philbull: could you provide the git repo information of the current gnome docs?
[17:59] <mdke> let's have a look at the docs, at Unity, think about how much patching will be required, and perhaps have another meeting?
[18:00] <j1mc> mdke: i think that sounds good
[18:00] <philbull> j1mc: Sure: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-user-docs/
[18:01] <philbull> mdke: Sounds good, can you raise this on the mailing list please?
[18:02] <mdke> ok. I will try to summarise the idea and some of the issues on the mailing list and then we can come back, perhaps even a similar time next week?
[18:02] <Rocket2DMn> That works for me
[18:03] <philbull> yep
[18:03] <j1mc> works for me, too
[18:03] <mdke> cool
[18:03] <j1mc> thanks, all!
[18:04] <mdke> catch you soon
[18:05] <philbull> thanks!
[18:06] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, any idea what we need to do for bug 555813 ?
[18:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 555813 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Please, delete the unnecesary es_PR and es_ES templates for ubuntu-docs-about-ubuntu (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/555813