[21:56] <tgm4883> I'm toying with making a theme that looks similar to the ubuntu tv images that were released a year or so ago. Here is a rough, early view  http://imagebin.org/272320
[21:56] <tgm4883> This is for MythTV


[14:57] <infoturtle> hey  guys, who are the four on the team tonight? rory hugh myself and..... anyone know?
[14:57]  * slashtom ?
[14:58] <ebel> yo yo
[14:58] <ebel> and slashtom!
[14:59] <ebel> infoturtle: what do you look like?
[14:59] <ebel> this is me http://www.flickr.com/photos/rorymccann/5011984507/ and this is slashtom http://www.flickr.com/photos/rorymccann/5011988985/
[14:59]  * slashtom will look out for a turtle
[15:01] <infoturtle> spiky hair, big puffy green headphones and a woolie fleese, not turtle like at all
[15:04] <slashtom> http://ubuntu-ie.org/ there is no table quiz!
[15:05] <czajkowski> dont forget to take pics
[15:05] <czajkowski> please
[15:05] <czajkowski> :)
[15:06] <ebel> sure sure
[15:07] <slashtom> maybe i should read the loco dir instead of ubuntu-ie.org
[15:07]  * slashtom is confused
[15:09] <czajkowski> slashtom: s far as I knew, all the events were gooing on the LD and eventually when the new site is ready, the RSS feed of them will go on the site
[15:10] <slashtom> why not a http redirect on ubuntu-ie.org?
[15:10] <czajkowski> from the LD
[15:10] <czajkowski> ?
[15:16] <ebel> redirect ubuntu-ie.org to the LD? sounds like an idea...
[15:17] <slashtom> aye, this whole thing of having multiple websites is silly
[15:17] <slashtom> and it creates far too much work
[15:17] <czajkowski> silly.... hmm
[15:18] <slashtom> basic programming rule, really
[15:18] <slashtom> don't go repeating yourself!
[15:18]  * czajkowski nods and smiles and wont argue
[15:18] <czajkowski> casue I point to over 100 teams that do it this way :)
[15:18] <czajkowski> *cause
[15:18] <slashtom> which way?
[15:18] <czajkowski> website wiki and LD
[15:19] <slashtom> maintaining 3 seperate resources of identical information
[15:19]  * slashtom is yet to be convinced that it is a good idea
[16:11] <czajkowski> ebel: you might find http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/390115:the-top-five-open-source-navigation-apps?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed  useful
[16:12] <ebel> czajkowski: ta, heard of some of em already


[00:03] <BlackOps> .... Well, I may be figuring it out. Stack Exchange safari
[00:09] <arraybolt3> BlackOps: You probably already know this, but do yourself a favor and make sure that any compromised important data on this system has been sufficiently locked down/reset/reported/etc. Knowing how some keen-eyed black hat got you hacked is no good if you lose your email password...
[00:10] <BlackOps> Yeah, my identity was stolen by a blackhat about three weeks ago and I caught him within about two hours of him opening up a checking account in my name.
[00:10] <BlackOps> So, haha, I learned the hard way that I'd make a decent threat hunter.
[00:11] <arraybolt3> +1, and yikes!
[00:11] <BlackOps> So, recruiters in the states ask for the last four of your soc and part of your DOB. Some of them have to and they're not social engineers. Some of them legitimately have to to put you in a database. But others are using them to crack then infiltrate
[00:11] <BlackOps> And you cannot tell for sure
[00:11] <BlackOps> *job recruiters
[00:11] <BlackOps> It's a weird thing and there was a paper in a Cornell publication about it
[00:12] <BlackOps> I can try to find it. But, they got me for two hours
[00:12] <arraybolt3> (Just as a side-note, off-topic conversation is sometimes frowned upon in this room. Glad you got yourself un-messed up, though.)
[00:13] <BlackOps> There is only an advantage because my preferred OS is always Ubuntu or a Linux variant so the trojans and other malware typically won't get me since the binaries are all for the most part .exe targetted to Windows. Yes, I won't go off topic. Sorry. This is an Ubuntu issue but I will stop. I don't want to break channel rules
[00:51] <rodybig> Not sure if this is the right channel but here goes:
[00:51] <rodybig> I'm running a K8s cluster on some Ubuntu VMs. I want network metrics for each container/pod, how do I get that?
[00:51] <rodybig> I have cAdvisor running (cAdvisor is now integrated into Kubelet it seems) and I have prometheus querying and storing the metrics exposed by cAdvisor.
[00:51] <rodybig> But looks like cAdvisor only reports network metrics at the host interface level?
[00:51] <rodybig> Is there any special flags (like NET_ADMIN) that I need to start the pods or cAdvisor with?
[00:52] <rodybig> In my local docker environment, I pass --NET_ADMIN on starting docker and it seems to be able to grab the right network stats.
[01:28] <BlackOps> I want to point out that this is the most specific channel in terms of the ops and users being very very extremely hardcore ad naueam for on-topic. Either way, several channels have cross-over like #linux will include programmers and #programming is heavy on Linux. I think this channel is mostly troubleshooting Ubuntu issues
[02:36] <Mechanismus> I'm connecting from Windows 11 to XRDP 0.9.17 and KDE Plasma 5.24.6 on Ubuntu 22.04.1 and the Meta key does not bring up the Application Launcher but Alt+F1 does.  Not sure which of these things is the problem here.
[02:37] <Mechanismus> Also, Meta+arrow works to snap windows to edges, so the key at least sort of works.
[03:43] <Nautilus> I'm migrating from an old Debian VirtualBox system to a new Xubuntu 22.04 system. On the old debian system I have some files in /home/username/.ssh, and I'm wondering if that's the appropriate place to put them in Xubuntu, since I don't see an already existing .ssh dir in the Xubuntu install.
[03:52] <lolok> this folder is normally created by ssh, you can try to generate a new key with your user and youll see this happen, afaik there is no reason you cant create it yourself 1st tho as long as the user ids match what they should and the permissions are sane
[03:53] <Nautilus> I would like to generate a key for myself, unsure how to do that. Secondarily, I have placed the info for a server I ssh into which I later placed in that dir.
[03:54] <Nautilus> googling for info on the first
[03:54] <Nautilus> got it
[04:00] <lolok> ssh-keygen, all this stuff is in the manuals too, google is great but the authoritative documentation is distributed with the package
[04:01] <Nautilus> How does a command like this look?  ssh-keygen -t rsa -b 4096 -C<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:01] <bsmith0931> you can absolutely just copy the entire /home/user directory. thats where nearly everything stores your configs
[04:01] <Nautilus> I need to exclude some things from the migration, so a step at a time
[04:02] <bsmith0931> when installing ubuntu and its derivatives, good practice is to split the / directory into its own partition, and home into the other.
[04:03] <Nautilus> I'd still have to exclude stuff ... I have too many archives in my home
[04:03] <lolok> i prefer ed25519 but that should work
[04:03] <Nautilus> ed25519?
[04:03] <lolok> "better" than rsa
[04:04] <Nautilus> ah, huh.
[04:04] <lolok> its eliptic curve encryption instead of discrete logarithms
[04:05] <lolok> now that you might have to google lol
[04:05] <Nautilus> yea, twisted Edwards curves
[04:05] <lolok> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EdDSA#Ed25519
[04:06] <Nautilus> so just change the -t param?
[04:06] <Nautilus> oh it might not like the -b 4096 hmm
[04:06] <bsmith0931> rsa is fine. 8192 bits ftw!
[04:06] <lolok> iirc all the keys are the same size in this format
[04:07] <bsmith0931> 16384 is the max supported by spec.
[04:08] <lolok> 16k of keyfile lmao may as well be an otp
[04:08] <Nautilus> so is the -b param not needed? Or should be 8192, or good lord so many Qs
[04:09] <lolok> if using ed25519 -b is not needed
[04:09] <Nautilus> is the -C useful for later? Maybe not, I might just need to keep notes
[04:12] <lolok> that all depends if you use it or not lol, if youre gonna publish your public key somewhere, its nice to have your contact info embedded
[04:13] <Nautilus> ah I see, does it need to be an email addy per the sample I found? I'm guessing no, now.
[04:14] <Nautilus> eg: example.com (where current contact info could be found)
[04:14] <lolok> its technically a comment line, like the one in /etc/passwd was for gecos info, i usually put what i intend to use the key for in there if im not publishing it
[04:15] <Nautilus> no idea what I'd use it for <grin>
[04:16] <lolok> which is usually the name or address of the server im using it to connect with or whatever i might call the purpose that server has
[04:16] <Nautilus> I have a different rsa file for the server I want to connect to, that's the other files in my .ssh
[04:17] <Nautilus> but it seems time to gen one for this machine
[04:17] <lolok> -C 'home.router' | -C 'gaming.vps'
[04:18] <lolok> if you let it idle it will tkae longer, ironically, using linux while its making the key will help it generate randomness
[04:19] <lolok> because of how the kernel derives randomness, and when is low on entropy, it will block
[04:19] <Nautilus> So I have this ready to go...  ssh-keygen -t ed25519 -C "example.com"
[04:19] <lolok> yep looks good to me
[04:19] <lolok> that will make the folder and a new key, and you can move your old keys to this folder, just match up the userid
[04:20] <Nautilus> yup
[04:21] <Nautilus> should I have a passphrase? That would be something randomly related to me, yes?
[04:22] <lolok> it doesnt have to be, it can be whatever you want, i highly recommend using a password for your key, and i highly recommend it be something you never used before, but wont forget...
[04:23] <Nautilus> 10-4 thanks
[04:26] <Nautilus> got it done, dir and keys generated. Now I'm stumped why I can't copy and paste to/from the VirtualBox VMs when I have bi-dir enabled.
[04:28] <Nautilus> Trying to type out the rsa key for the server I want to get to is no bueno. lol
[04:30] <Nautilus> Trying to find a #VirtualBox channel
[04:36] <Nautilus> back to the .ssh dir topic, the old debian had a config file where I defined hostname, port, user, and rsa file. Does that config work the same in ubuntu?
[04:37] <Nautilus> that's for the server I need to connect to
[04:38] <Nautilus> eg: /home/username/.ssh/config
[05:03] <osiris> #wunclub
[05:09] <lolok> Nautilus i would be surprised if it didnt work but without looking at the diff of which versions of ssh you had idk for sure
[05:10] <Nautilus> yea, wish I could just try it but am stuck trying to copy&paste files between two VMs. sheesh
[05:12] <Nautilus> thing is, I never know anything. came in to ask about rsa and ended up going ed25519
[05:14] <Nautilus> back when my first computer was a KIM-1 I could keep up   ;)
[05:37] <Nautilus> one more dumb question. The key's randomart is just a thing for fun, right? I don't need to keep that?
[05:39] <Diagon> Anyone point me to how I might add something to the nautilus context menu that appears on Alt-Left_Mouse-Drag_to_other_folder?
[05:41] <Nautilus> sorry, but my nick is about the cephalopod, not the UI   ;)
[05:44] <Diagon> Funny guy.
[05:44] <Diagon> Any idea what happened to nautilus-actions package?
[05:53] <Guest6668> Hi, my laptop stopped being able to join the wifi network, and started automatically cycling through all networks in its reach (none of which it could join). When I restarted it, it no longer sees my wifi adapter. Can anyone think of anything I could do?
[06:07] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: Did this happen right after updating Ubuntu?
[06:09] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, after I turned my computer on today. I don't remember if I updated it at some point yesterday. I just tried a live flash drive with Ubuntu now, the one I installed from few months ago, and it doesn't see wifi either, so it looks like it's probably hardware.
[06:10] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: Oh crud. That sounds correct, sadly. If even a live USB doesn't see it, then the problem is probably your hardware.
[06:11] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, still, thanks!
[06:11] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: Do you have any other way to connect to the Internet with this system?
[06:11] <arraybolt3> If not, I can try to find a cheap WiFi dongle that should be likely to work out of the box with Ubuntu.
[06:11] <arraybolt3> (I guess, why not look anyway?)
[06:13] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, thanks, I don't. No, just wifi.
[06:13] <Guest6668> that would be great if you found something
[06:13] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: What brand of WiFi card was already in your system, do you know?
[06:14] <arraybolt3> (The USB adapters are either expensive or appear to get poor reviews, so I'm thinking maybe finding a suitable replacement internal card might be better.)
[06:15] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, no... but maybe BIOS/EFI could remember it... it's still in warranty though, I!m just not very keen right now on the idea of parting with it the company gets around to fixing it
[06:16] <arraybolt3> Ah, OK.
[06:17] <Guest6668> until*
[06:19] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: Still looking, sorry for the delay.
[06:19] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, it's ok, thanks a lot!
[06:33] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: Hmm. The problem here is most everyone uses Realtek or Mediatek chips for their USB WiFi adapters, and Realtek and Mediatek are **not** out-of-the-box compatible with Linux. So I'm looking for something with an Atheros, Intel, or (worse case scenario) Broadcom chipset. Thus the delay.
[06:35] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, thanks a lot, I really appreciate it : )
[06:36] <arraybolt3> Thanks for your patience with me. I feel bad that you're just stuck waiting, but hopefully something good will pop up!
[06:36] <arraybolt3> Hmph, looks like I was mistaken about Mediatek, this might be a quick solution then!
[06:37] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: What version of Ubuntu are you using?
[06:38] <Guest6668> arraybolt3, Ubuntu Budgie 22.04
[06:38] <arraybolt3> Nice, thank you!
[06:42] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: One last thing, what nation are you in? That will influence which marketplace I look for an adapter in.
[06:52] <Guest6666> arraybolt3, hi, sorry, I lost connection after your "nice, thank you" message, since I tried to turn the router off and on (which didn't help, of course)
[06:52] <arraybolt3> Guest6668: One last thing, what nation are you in? That will influence which marketplace I look for an adapter in.
[06:53] <arraybolt3> Guest6666: (sorry wrong nick, see message above)
[06:53] <Guest6666> arraybolt3, Czech Republic
[07:00] <arraybolt3> Guest6666: Alright, I think we have a winner! Look for the Panda Wireless pau04 adapter. That one should just plug in and work.
[07:01] <Kottizen> Hello! I just updated from Ubuntu 18.04 to Ubuntu 20.04 in my virtual machine in AWS EC2, and now I am unable to reach the server when I have start it. According to the EC2 console, the server is running, but any network connections to it time out. There is no particular firewall on the machine, so I suspect it's not booting properly. I am, however, able to mount the system disk in another VM to
[07:01] <Kottizen> examine the files. What should I look for to troubleshoot this?
[07:02] <Guest6666> arraybolt3, thanks, I'll check it out!
[07:02] <arraybolt3> Kottizen: Is there any web console you can get access to? Seeing the exact errors the system spits out as it boots can be very helpful for this sort of thing.
[07:03] <Kottizen> arraybolt3: I'm afraid there isn't... Is that the same information as in /var/log/dmesg, though, or would I see more information with a console?
[07:03] <Kottizen> $ cat etc/os-release
[07:03] <Kottizen> NAME="Ubuntu"
[07:03] <Kottizen> VERSION="20.04.5 LTS (Focal Fossa)"
[07:03] <arraybolt3> Kottizen: You would indeed see more info with a console. If a kernel panic is happening, the only place it will appear is the console.
[07:04] <arraybolt3> Kottizen: The dmesg file would be worth a shot though, pastebin it and let's see.
[07:04] <Kottizen> arraybolt3: https://klistra.in/d4O5AitY
[07:06] <arraybolt3> Kottizen: I am really sorry to say this, but I'm a bit paranoid about unfamiliar links, and I can't find that pastebin website on Google. Would it be awful if I wanted you to use something like bpa.st or dpaste.com?
[07:06] <Kottizen> I am able to get screenshots of the console, but it just shows an empty "_" character. I am thinking the issue could be related to Grub, or its replacement if Grub is no longer used (?)
[07:07] <Kottizen> arraybolt3: It's my own pastebin :) but no worries! https://dpaste.com/FE4HRSRA3
[07:07] <arraybolt3> Grub is still used. Maybe it's getting hung up.
[07:07] <arraybolt3> Kottizen: Oh, that makes sense. OK, I'll trust it from now on.
[07:08] <arraybolt3> Kottizen: Good news, looks like it's booting! The problem appears to be related to network configuration.
[07:08] <Kottizen> (I think I am its only user, but I wanted a pastebin without advertisements and/or tracking mechanisms)
[07:08] <arraybolt3> I see tons of "stat() failed on /etc/init.d/resolvconf, ignoring: No such file or directory"
[07:08] <Kottizen> Ah, oh. That feels relieving!
[07:08] <Kottizen> Yes, maybe NetworkManager isn't starting (?)
[07:09] <arraybolt3> So... that's the good news, the bad news is I don't have a clue in the world how to fix that :) Thankfully, there's tons of other people here who may be able to help out.
[07:10] <Kottizen> Do you think a good idea could be to specify a static IP address in /etc/network/interfaces and create a sample /etc/resolv.conf? Then, I guess it should work if somehow understand how to disable NetworkManager and/or /etc/init.d/resolvconf.
[07:10] <Kottizen> Ah hehe :) I'll try my own suggestion then! I can't imagine it would break anything, at least
[07:25] <Rico> hello
[07:25] <Rico> I've enabled screen sharing in ubuntu (+ disabled screensaver and enabled autologin)
[07:26] <Rico> but I'm unable to connect to remote desktop (on ubuntu server) just after startup
[07:27] <Rico> can anyone help me with that please ?
[07:29] <arraybolt3> Rico: Are you running Ubuntu Desktop on a physical computer, or a virtual machine? Also, are you trying to access the system from another computer on the same network?
[07:30] <Rico> arraybolt3: vm
[07:30] <Rico> it seems it's related to the keyring manager
[07:30] <Rico> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1396745/21-10-make-screen-share-password-permanent
[07:31] <arraybolt3> Rico: Oh. Sadly, I don't have experience using GNOME Remote Desktop, but it looks like you found a hopeful answer!
[07:31] <Rico> I hope so
[09:30] <lucagi> Salve a tutti e perdonate la mia incompetenza e lentezza, è la prima volta che scrivo in chat.
[09:30] <lucagi> Ho un problema con una USB HUAWEI E8372 LTE Wingle, non viene identificata come modem, riesco a connettere il wi-fi ma non viene rilevata la sim.
[09:30] <lucagi> Ho provato a seguire quanto riportato alla pagina di ask ubuntu: https://askubuntu.com/questions/790893/huawei-usb-4g-modem-not-detected
[09:30] <lucagi> questo il risultato:
[09:30] <lucagi> $ sudo lsusb | grep Huawei
[09:30] <lucagi> Bus 003 Device 005: ID 12d1:14db Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. E353/E3131
[09:30] <EriC^^> !it | lucagi
[10:13] <s28mannigoskar> sg
[10:13] <s28mannigoskar> #er
[10:13] <s28mannigoskar> g
[10:13] <s28mannigoskar> eg
[10:13] <s28mannigoskar> g
[10:13] <s28mannigoskar> rgdgbfghnjkdff
[10:24] <Diagon> How do I find out if this package morphed into something new?
[10:25] <Diagon> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=default&section=all&arch=any&keywords=filemanager-actions&searchon=names
[10:29] <guiverc[m]> Diagon: why not look at the changelog found on a package on the site you mention
[10:30] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/filemanager-actions
[10:30] <ogra> does not look like it was continued at all
[10:31] <ogra> but i'd ask in #ubuntu-desktop about it (since there are commits from one of the team members in this package), perhaps they know more
[10:35] <Diagon> guiverc - I'm not seeing a changelog.  all I'm seeing is nautilus-actions becomes filemanager-actions, and then seems to disappear.
[10:35] <Diagon> Thanks, orga.  Appreciated.
[10:36] <guiverc[m]> Diagon: pick a package; eg. https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/filemanager-actions and top right you'll see a link for changelog just under bug reports... ogra's advice will be more helpful though
[10:39] <Diagon> guiverc TY!
[12:12] <podeni> Hi everyone. I have an EC2 Ubuntu AMI which I configured to only use 2GB of space for savings purposes. I'm now trying to upgrade that machine to the latest LTS, but the update crashes because of a lack of space. What could I do, apart fro, creating a new image and shrinking that?
[12:20] <prologic> I have a program I wrote that brings up another virtual ethernet interface. The moment it does that DNS stops working on Ubuntu 22.04 (fresh VM). Any ideas how I can debug/fix this? I find it very strange that just brining up another interface can break SystemD's resolver so badly :/
[12:21] <prologic> https://files.mills.io/download/Screen%20Shot%202022-09-19%20at%2022.20.46.png
[12:23] <prologic> Sep 19 12:20:49 box-ubuntu2204 systemd-resolved[637]: Got packet on unexpected (i.e. non-localhost) IP range, ignoring.
[12:23] <prologic> hmm
[12:25] <prologic> Oh
[12:25] <prologic> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/466105/iptables-masquerade-breaks-dns-lookups
[12:25] <prologic> I think this is my problem
[13:32] <Teckla> Super dumb question time: How can I set a solid color for my desktop background on Ubuntu?
[13:33] <Teckla> I think there's some kind of optional GNOME program for it, though the name escapes me...
[13:44] <brkcore> I masked accounts.daemon.service and cant load ubuntu. How do I use live usb session to access /dev/null and /etc/systemd and remove the symlink?. any good guide avaible online?
[13:47] <brkcore> the only error message on boot is "failed to start Apply Kernal Variables"
[13:48] <Teckla> Ah, it looks like a command line solution is available: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.background primary-color '#000000'
[13:53] <alkisg> brkcore: can you get a shell by putting an init=/bin/bash in grub?
[13:54] <brkcore> alkisg: I don't know how to get to shell, because on boot I don't have any input.
[13:54] <alkisg> brkcore: if you press esc while it boots, you should see the grub menu. There you should be able to press "e" to edit the grub menu. OK so far?
[13:56] <brkcore> alkisg: I don't think grub is avaible at this point as it isnt loaded yet. But I will try now and will be back!
[13:56] <alkisg> Then when you get a shell, run: mount -o remount,rw /; systemctl enable --root=/ --no-reload accounts-daemon; sync; reboot
[13:56] <brkcore> alkisg: ok, great I will run it if I get to shell.
[13:56] <alkisg> brkcore: grub is the boot manager, it's loaded before the kernel, a whole lot before systemd
[13:57] <brkcore> oh thats good news then
[13:57] <brkcore> ill be back shortly
[13:59] <Teckla> It looks like there's also a tool called "dconf Editor" for lower level access to changing things.
[13:59] <Teckla> (super weird that you can't change the desktop background to a solid color, though!  what a strange design!)
[14:10] <Teckla> Ok, both gsettings and dconf Editor work, if anyone else was wondering  :)
[14:14] <brkroot> alkisg, it didnt help, it didnt enable the daemon, perhaps because it was masked instead of just disabled
[14:21] <alkisg> brkroot: then use "unmask"
[14:23] <brkroot> ".. mask -o unmask,rw/;" ....?
[14:44] <alkisg> No, where it says "enable" replace it with "unmask"
[14:46] <alkisg>  mount -o remount,rw /; systemctl unmask --root=/ --no-reload accounts-daemon; sync; reboot
[14:47] <brkroot> I just went though a rescue option and with root i was able to unmask and enable the service. Its all sorted now.
[14:47] <brkroot> I will mask it again, just so I can try unmasking and enabling it your way, as it seems much quicker and easier.
[14:47] <brkroot> let me try
[14:48] <ufk> pleaset ell me there is an apt mirror for groovy packages still alive somewhere
[14:49] <ravage> ufk, https://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/groovy/
[14:49] <ufk> yay! thanks
[14:50] <ravage> !eolupgrade | ufk
[14:51] <ufk> yeah i know i just need some package and some dependencies.. thank you so much
[14:53] <brkroot> alkisg, its not working that way either. Can we add something to the string to actually enable and start the service on boot. As if its unmasked, normmaly its not enabled until manually do so
[14:54] <ufk> ravage: that's the release.. that's not the apt repository
[14:54] <alkisg> brkroot: what's your end goal?
[14:54] <ufk> ahh ok found it there thanks
[14:56] <brkroot> alkisg, to make your suggested string work, as its quicker to boot into the system, if a masked service prevent loading it
[14:57] <alkisg> brkroot: my command unmasks a unit; if it showed an error for you, tell us the error; if it "didn't work", do you mean the unit is still masked?
[14:57] <alkisg> If you want to both unmask and enable a unit, you need two commands
[15:01] <brkroot> alkisg, I cant see any errors on the screen, apart from Failed - failed to start apply kernal variables. How to i check for other errors at this point?
[15:02] <alkisg> brkroot:  # systemctl enable asdf
[15:02] <alkisg> Failed to enable unit: Unit file asdf.service does not exist.
[15:02] <alkisg> When you run a command, if it writes any line below that, it's an error
[15:02] <alkisg> If not, then it worked
[15:02] <alkisg> We don't care about previous kernel errors, they are not related to this issue
[15:07] <brkroot> alkisg, all im saying, is that the command, has no output when I put it in the grub. (is it because of the reboot option at the end)?  So I can't really see if the service was unmasked or enabled. As on reboot, I am back to the loading screen where it hangs with no errors, apart from the one that it says fail to start apply kernal variables
[15:07] <alkisg> brkroot: you only put init=/bin/bash at grub, not the rest of the command
[15:08] <alkisg> Where it says linux .... quiet splash, you edit that line to say linux ... init=/bin/bash
[15:08] <alkisg> Then you get a shell; there, you can type the command. You don't type it at grub
[15:09] <brkroot> oh man, ok sorry
[15:19] <Nautilus> darn, my icon was flashing like someone said soething to me, but it seemed to be out of scrollback. Or maybe someone just mentioned the file manager
[15:20] <jhutchins> Nautilus: Maybe you want to configure a larger buffer.
[15:20] <Nautilus> more to figure out later
[15:24] <brkroot> alkisg, so ...systemctl enable... says that failed to enabled the service because is masked. System has not been booted with systemd (PID1) ..so cant operate.
[15:24] <brkroot> its the same with unmasking the service, PID1 cant operate
[15:25] <alkisg> Did you use the full command I gave? With root=/ etc?
[15:26] <brkroot> yes, the full command
[15:27] <brkroot> mount -o remount,rw /; systemctl unmask --root=/ --noreload accounts-daemon; sync; reboot
[15:28] <brkroot> root@(none):/# .....
[15:31] <brkroot> the syntax is right, I typed it with --no-reload on the other computer
[16:05] <hays> anyone know anything about ubuntu-core? like is there a way to mount the .img?
[16:06] <ogra> hays, the image is partitioned ... you can not mount it but you can mount its partitions ... read up about kpartx
[16:09] <ogra> hays, also forum.snapcraft.io has a "devices" category where you can ask questions about UbuntuCore
[16:15] <brkroot> how to make cat print first 10 lines and then continuing to the next 10 lines , when reading a big output?
[16:21] <arraybolt3> brkroot: I think you're looking for "cat <file> | less".
[16:21] <arraybolt3> Not sure that will do exactly what you want, but it should let you scroll through the output.
[16:22] <rob0> cat might not be the best tool for that. head(1) prints 10 lines. more(1) prints a page at a time, which depends on how big your terminal is. Also less(1) is a full service pager with basic features plus search, backscroll and more.
[16:23] <rob0> BTW less(1) can directly read a file, "less filename"
[16:23] <brkroot> arraybolt3, yes, it helps, thank you
[16:24] <brkroot> rob0, and if I use grep with -m10 ... how can use that option do show lines 10 to 20, 20 to 30 etc
[16:33] <nteodosio> brkroot: What do you mean? grep -m10 will dump a max of 10 lines and quit. There is no line 10 to 20, 20 to 30 etc.
[16:33] <brkroot> nteodosio, that what i was thinking, if there is other option for grep, to show lines per intervals of 10 for example
[16:34] <brkroot> but I realise now grep is not interactive so that wont be possible
[16:34] <arraybolt3> rob0: (re: BTW less(1) can directly read a file...) Oh cool, didn't know that! Thanks!
[16:34] <nteodosio> brkroot: Doesn't 'grep pattern file | less' do that for you?
[16:34] <brkroot> let me see
[16:40] <brkroot> nteodosio, I cant figure out how to use it
[16:41] <nteodosio> brkroot: How were you using it before, when you suggested grep -m10?
[16:41] <brkroot> for examble how to grep "reached" from boot.log, on intervals
[16:42] <brkroot> if i use grep with -m10, just shows 10 lines and then hitting enter to print nect lines
[16:42] <nteodosio> brkroot: grep reached boot.log | less
[16:43] <nteodosio> If you need line numbers, grep reached boot.log | less -N
[16:43] <nteodosio> Ah, if you an interval of exactly ten lines per time, I'd have to ask why.
[16:45] <brkroot> do you know why grep reached boot.log | less doesn't print anything?  just empty lines
[16:46] <nteodosio> No I don't. Piping to less should give you the same, but paged output.
[16:46] <hggdh> brkroot: two options: (1) there are binary (non-displayable) charaters in the file; (2) there are no "reached" strings in the file
[16:47] <rfm> another possibity is brkroot is running grep in a user that can't read boot.log...
[16:48] <adam_> is it possible to cluster an Ubuntu pc to a Fedora pc?
[16:48] <brkroot> rfm, i use sudo.
[16:50] <nteodosio> brkroot: But wait, does 'grep reached boot.log' output something in the first place?
[16:50] <rfm> I note there are no lines containing "reached" in my boot.log...  lots of lines with "Reached" tho.  Maybe "grep -i reached boot.log | less" ?
[16:51] <brkroot> cat displays all boot.log. ... cat boot.log | grep "reached" gives me permission denied. Using it with sudo, doesnt priunt anything
[16:52] <brkroot> nteodosio, permission denied on grep reached boot.log
[16:53] <brkroot> hggdh, yes, all the files are flagged as binary, your right
[16:53] <nteodosio> cat can read the file but piping it into grep gives permission denied? That's absolutely crazy. Sorry, can't help you further.
[16:53] <hggdh> brkroot: try grep --binary-files=text reached boot.log
[16:55] <brkroot> nteodosio, its not crazy, im not searching for text in a file, but for a ...variable or something like that
[16:57] <brkroot> hggdh, grep --binary-files=text reached boot.log ... that works!
[16:58] <hggdh> cool. One less hurdle in the way :-)
[16:59] <brkroot> yeah, you guys are crazy knowledgeable, thanks a lot!
[16:59] <brkroot> have a good one
[16:59] <brkroot> exit
[17:21] <dabbler> In the past, /etc/fstab used to specify the mounting of procfs. Looking at my new 22.04 installation, that's not in there anymore. Is it now specified in a different fstab kept more away from the user?
[17:21] <dabbler> Or is procfs itself not a thing anymore?
[17:28] <dabbler> Rather, does it not need to be mounted at all anymore
[17:37] <brkroot> do you know if I disable or even mask debug-shell.service, will I be able to access bash shell, if something go wrong with the system?
[17:39] <rfm> dabbler, well, it's still mounted, as "mount | grep /proc" will show.  I don't know, but I assume either systemd (which is what processes /etc/fstab these days) or the kernel itself just always mounts it at startup.
[17:44] <rfm> dabbler, yeah, "man systemd" says "It also sets up and mounts various API file systems, such as /sys/ or /proc/."
[17:44] <ogra> dabbler, https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/APIFileSystems/
[17:47] <brkroot> I got it. It wont be able to use the root. the shell wont be automatically logged it and so wont be able to execute any root level commands. But would it be asking for a root password at least? or is it the entire shell be disabled at early boot ?
[17:57] <rfm> brkroot, I found https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd_early_debug-shell  looks like it is not enabled by default, and never should be unless you're trying to debug a broken systemd...
[18:03] <brkroot> rfm, i found that too. It is currently disabled by default on the system. I was thinking this is responsible for the root password at bash shell when automatically logged with root
[18:05] <brkroot> but it is not, because root is automatically logged with no password required
[18:15] <rpnx> Does anyone work for Canonical? What is it like?
[18:16] <leftyfb> !ot | rpnx
[18:16] <leftyfb> !discuss | rpnx
[18:20] <oxphi> Is there a way to "install" a .appimage on ubuntu, and also is there a way to set default "open with" on files as an .appimage ? I'm having trouble finding that
[18:26] <leftyfb> oxphi: no and that would depend on the program
[18:26] <leftyfb> oxphi: appimages don't get installed.
[18:29] <brkroot> where else i can questions and opinions apart from ubuntu and ubuntu-offtopic
[18:30] <brkroot> *ask
[18:30] <brkroot> and does it matter, its the same users on all channels i gues
[18:35] <leftyfb> brkroot: this channel is for support questions. #ubuntu-offtopic is for basically everything else and opinions
[19:51] <Ajinomoto> How to run memtest?
[19:52] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: depends on which one you mean, there are multiple.
[19:53] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn the one that tells me all about why my apps crash after isntalling new ram sticks
[19:54] <tomreyn> what cpu architecture / family is this?
[19:55] <tomreyn> some recent amd64?
[19:55] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn amd ryzen
[19:55] <Ajinomoto> 3400G
[19:56] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn ok will give complete info: I had 32g ram (16x 2 sticks). All were running fine. I bought 2 more to make it 64g. Now my browsers, VMs crash at some load (when cpu goes at peak). How exactly can I know whats wrong? Old ram:  BL16G32C16U4R.M16FE1 (slot 1, 3)  new ram:  BL16G32C16U4B.16FE (slots 2,4).  full dmidecode: https://termbin.com/r2zs
[19:56] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: use the free version of https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm
[19:56] <sarnold> Ajinomoto: I installed the jammy package of pcmemtest onto an 18.04 machine without trouble: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmemtest
[19:59] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn sarnold shouldn't I go with the first option at the boot ? https://linuxhint.com/run_memtest_ubuntu/
[19:59] <sarnold> Ajinomoto: yeah if it's available that'd be fine
[20:00] <morganu> 20.04 (with tweaks doing dashtodock) The brightness control in top panel does nothing. How Could I Dim My Screen? dell desktop9020 and acer monitor
[20:00] <tomreyn> not for this cpu family, i don't think
[20:00] <sarnold> Ajinomoto: there's enough complications around which one works on uefi vs legacy boot vs free vs not-free etc. pcmemtest just worked for me, so I thought i'd share it around and save the trouble ;)
[20:00] <Ajinomoto> sarnold ok!
[20:01] <tomreyn> sarnold: did you see the NOTICE at https://github.com/martinwhitaker/pcmemtest ?
[20:01] <sarnold> Ajinomoto: but if you've got something in your boot menu already, go for it ;)
[20:01] <Ajinomoto> the symptoms I am describing are usually due to ?
[20:01] <sarnold> tomreyn: yeah, but I don't think that new thing is packaged in debian yet, maybe I'm out of date there
[20:02] <sarnold> tomreyn: yeah, not in debian yet :( https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/memtest86%2B
[20:02] <Ajinomoto> system error logs won't tell? if so, which logs?
[20:02] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: broken or incompatible DIMMs, too high frequency, insufficient power supply, something along these lines.
[20:02] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn ok  , btw, it only happens at high cpu usage.
[20:03] <sarnold> Ajinomoto: I *think* dmesg may show you the bad memory address if you've got ecc; rasdaemon may also have it logged, if you've got that installed
[20:03] <Ajinomoto> sarnold ok command?
[20:04] <sarnold> Ajinomoto: try: ras-mc-ctl --errors
[20:04] <Ajinomoto> sarnold no errors
[20:05] <sarnold> dang. check dmesg then?
[20:05] <tomreyn> https://github.com/memtest86plus/memtest86plus#trouble-shooting-memory-errors looks useful
[20:06] <tomreyn> dmesg | grep RAS     # shoould say whether it was loaded
[20:06] <Ajinomoto> [    1.160578] RAS: Correctable Errors collector initialized. [    2.195807] amdgpu 0000:08:00.0: amdgpu: RAS: optional ras ta ucode is not available
[20:07] <arraybolt3> Ajinomoto: Quick thought for you, if you're using anything like RAM overclocking, maybe that's part of the problem.
[20:07] <tomreyn> and    journalctl -b | grep RAS     should say that systmed started the RAS daemon to log RAS events
[20:08] <arraybolt3> (CPU overclocking might cause the problem too?)
[20:08] <tomreyn> it could
[20:10] <tomreyn> lsmod | grep edac    should list edac_mce_amd, amd64_edac_mod
[20:10] <Ajinomoto> 3400g kernel: RAS: Correctable Errors collector initialized.400g kernel: amdgpu 0000:08:00.0: amdgpu: RAS: optional ras ta ucode is not available
[20:10] <Ajinomoto> systemd[1]: Starting RAS daemon to log the RAS events...systemd[1]: Started RAS daemon to log the RAS events.
[20:11] <Ajinomoto> arraybolt3 the ram is 3200Mhz, but bios didn't had that option. I made it 3200 from 2600 I think.. But the old 2 were wokring fine
[20:14] <tomreyn> "Error Correction Type: None"
[20:15] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn I recall when the inital2 rams were new, I had this issue, I changed slots, it went away. Maybe MB slots are bad. But I hope memtest will tell about it. Will it?
[20:16] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: the first thing you should do before installing new memory is to consult your mainboard manual to understand how to install it, and how to install it in a way that it can be working next to other memory
[20:17] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn "push in the slot"?
[20:17] <Ajinomoto> MB: asus x570 gaming wifi
[20:18] <tomreyn> now you just need to look up the manual.
[20:18] <Ajinomoto> MB: asus TUF x570 gaming wifi
[20:18] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn ok
[20:20] <Ajinomoto> https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/TUF-Gaming/TUF-GAMING-X570-PLUS-WI-FI/
[20:25] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn no such thing https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/PRIME_X570-P/E15829_PRIME_PRO_TUF_GAMING_X570_Series_BIOS_EM_WEB.pdf
[20:25] <jamiew0w> hello. i upgraded from 20.04 to 22.04 yesterday and it appears that smooth scrolling has somehow been enabled, i can't figure out how to disable it. anyone have any ideas?
[20:26] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: that#s the bios manual, not the mainboard manual
[20:27] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/TUF_GAMING_X570-PLUS_WI-FI/E15236_TUF_GAMING_X570-PLUS_WI-FI_UM_WEB_060319.pdf sections 1.1.4 and 2.1.4
[20:27] <tomreyn> Ajinomoto: there's #hardware for hardware help, too
[20:27] <tomreyn> and i got to go - read carefully, good luck!
[20:40] <Ajinomoto> tomreyn thanks
[20:44] <ArtfulDodger> Hi! The logs of systemd-timesyncd are unclear to me: Does message "Initial synchronization to time server" actually means that the time sync is successful or just that it has begun?
[20:44] <ArtfulDodger> See logs extract http://paste.debian.net/1254422/
[21:06] <ppw> hi. anyone know how to hide the battery indicator in gnome?
[21:12] <OerHeks>  ppw see system settings > power https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2022/03/battery-percentage-ubuntu-2204/
[21:44] <ppw> OerHeks: I do actually have that turned off. There's still a battery icon there.
[21:46] <enigma9o7[m]> I think you need a shell extenion to hide it.  You still wanna keep the other things in that group right?
[21:48] <enigma9o7[m]> theres probably several extensions that offer that feature, pretty sure "just perfection" has it, it has on/off switches for everything
[21:50] <enigma9o7[m]> ppw:
[21:50] <ppw> enigma9o7[m]: I'll look it up, thanks
[23:21] <hans_> what's the difference between "jammy-server-cloudimg-amd64.tar.gz" and "jammy-server-cloudimg-amd64-root.tar.xz"  ?    (the root is about 300MB smaller)
[23:21] <hans_> over at https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/jammy/current/
[23:22] <sarnold> hans_: check the .manifest files there, that might show you what the difference is
[23:23] <sarnold> https://termbin.com/5wro
[23:23] <sarnold> mostly stuff that involves booting
[23:26] <hans_> thanks
[23:29] <hans_> booting is overrated anyway :p
[23:30] <sarnold> booting brings nothing but trouble
[23:30] <hans_> indeed
[23:44] <cnnx> where can I find an .iso I can write on my ssd as my regular primary drive? i dont want to install to a usb and then to ssd
[23:44] <cnnx> the os directly on the ssd
[23:44] <cnnx> is htat possibled
[23:47] <OerHeks> cnnx, only when you have grub2 already installed, isoboot
[23:51] <cnnx> so install xubuntu on the ssd
[23:51] <cnnx> the run isoboot?
[23:55] <OerHeks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/ISOBoot


[16:22] <frankban> marcoceppi, lazyPower: could you please promulgate https://jujucharms.com/u/juju-gui/redis/trusty/ ?
[16:22] <marcoceppi> frankban: we can review it ;)
[16:22] <frankban> marcoceppi: that would be great
[16:23] <marcoceppi> frankban: can you go ahead and have it added to the review queue? https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/authors-charm-store#submitting-a-new-charm and I'll have a look at it tonight during my review time
[16:23] <marcoceppi> frankban: do you want it to be under ~charmers or should it be promulgated under the juju-gui group?
[16:24] <frankban> marcoceppi: I guess ~juju-gui works ok, we already have the juju-gui charm that way I think
[16:26] <frankban> marcoceppi: so, should I just file the bug?
[16:27] <marcoceppi> frankban: yah, and link your branch to it
[16:33] <frankban> marcoceppi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/1459345
[16:33] <mup> Bug #1459345: Review/promulgation request for the Redis charm <Juju Charms Collection:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1459345>


[10:05] <bazhang> the /join is fine theadmin
[10:06] <theadmin> There is how it should be: http://www.privatepaste.com/bcbed0dbdf
[10:06] <theadmin> szal: ^
[10:07] <theadmin> szal: Also, never saw this pastebin before xD
[10:07] <szal> k, thx :) - IdleOne: can we correct it like this?
[10:08] <szal> theadmin: there's so many pastebins around, I doubt you can ever know them all ^^
[10:08] <theadmin> szal: lol yeah, I just stick to pzt.me
[10:10] <theadmin> Well, is that it then?
[10:11] <szal> IdleOne: feedback please ^^
[10:11] <bazhang> submit the factoid for approval theadmin
[10:11] <bazhang> szal, its fine
[10:11] <szal> ok
[10:11] <theadmin> szal: Please do that, /me still can't type cyrillic
[10:11] <IdleOne> /msg ubottu !factoid is <reply> edits to factoid
[10:11] <szal> thx
[10:12] <theadmin> IdleOne: What's that pseudo-XML, <reply>, must it be there?
[10:12] <IdleOne> theadmin: yes please
[10:12] <theadmin> szal: Could you do that, then
[10:12] <theadmin> szal: ?
[10:13] <szal> done -> [12:12:55] <ubottu> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
[10:13] <theadmin> szal: Great, thanks.
[10:14] <IdleOne> Should be fixed now.
[10:14] <IdleOne> may I take this moment to remind you to please try and remain on topic in #ubuntu :)
[10:14] <szal> good to have LO Writer around; I don't speak Russian myself, but I can read Cyrillic script & type it if necessary
[10:15] <szal> anyhoo, done here :)
[10:16] <theadmin> IdleOne, bazhang and szal: Thanks, the new factoid looks fine. Had to use a cyrillic decoder around one place to read it tho :D
[10:17] <theadmin> I'm /wc'ing from this channel now tho, no point in staying here.
[22:48] <Trevinho> Hi, my current cloak is u2700@ubuntu/member/trevinho, could I have ~3v1n0@ubuntu/member/trevinho to match my launchpad account?
[22:50] <Unit193> Trevinho: Your cloak is ubuntu/member/trevinho , the first part is your ident
[22:52] <Unit193> What client are you using? Depending on your client, you can change it in there
[22:56] <Trevinho> Ah, ok... Sorry Unit193.... You're right,... I didn't recall since I'm now using a web-based client
[22:57] <Trevinho> however Unit193 the last part of the cloak, should match the irc nickname or the member name?
[22:57] <Unit193> Trevinho: It should match your registered NickServ account
[23:03] <Trevinho> Ok, thank  you.


[04:22] <micahg> dupondje: taking a look
[05:51] <dupondje> thx micahg  :)
[05:51] <dupondje> at least we can listen to music again this evening then :P
[06:43] <dholbach> good morning
[07:26] <iulian> Morning dholbach.
[07:27] <dholbach> hey iulian
[07:27] <geser> good morning
[07:37] <iulian> Hi there geser. How are you doing?
[07:48] <geser> Hi, iulian. I'm fine and you?
[08:12] <iulian> geser: I'm not too bad, thanks.
[08:16] <dholbach> we're at 62 sponsoring items - does anyone have a bit of time today to go through a few?
[15:22] <obounaim> dholbach: thanks for sponsoring me I really appreciate it
[15:22] <dholbach> anytime :)
[15:24] <obounaim> Can I apply for Ubuntu membership now?
[15:26] <dholbach> obounaim, I'd write you an endorsement, but in the end that'd be a question for the DMB or a Membership Board
[15:28] <obounaim> ok
[15:29] <obounaim> In your opinion should I apply or do more work?
[15:38] <dholbach> obounaim, what I'd recommend to do is: set up your application (you will have to do it anyway) and ask the people you've worked with for comments - soon you're going to see what they all think :)
[15:38] <obounaim> Ok thanks for your advice dholbach
[15:38] <dholbach> :)
[15:38] <dholbach> all right - time to call it a day over here - have a great weekend everyone
[15:39] <iulian> dholbach: Enjoy!
[15:39] <dholbach> you too
[16:27] <obounaim> How to build on multiple architectures using a ppa? thanks
[16:37] <obounaim> architectures other than i386 and amd64 like powerpc and arm
[16:46] <obounaim> because when upload packages they only build in i386 or amd64


[00:12] <csilk> did lp just die?
[00:12] <kiko> csilk, wfm
[00:13] <csilk>  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
[00:13] <csilk> Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
[00:13] <csilk> Thanks for your patience.
[00:13] <kiko> csilk, edge or lpnet?
[00:13] <csilk> net
[00:13] <kiko> that's interesting. no OOPS id right?
[00:13] <csilk> oh, working now, just slow. very slow
[00:14] <csilk> sorry, no ID
[00:15] <kiko> interesting
[00:16] <lifeless> csilk: will look into this right now, thanks
[00:16] <csilk> Speed has gotten a little better over the past minute
[01:21]  * spiv wonders why his bug mail contains a header like X-Generated-By: Launchpad ... Instance="initZopeless config overlay"
[01:35] <lifeless> lol
[01:38]  * ajmitch noticed that one a couple of days ago
[01:39] <ajmitch> it was interesting to see intrepid-changes mail coming from a couple of different instances
[03:51] <Syco54645_> is there a certain amount of waiting time required before the ppa that you create will start to work?  i can upload files just fine but cannot seem to connect to the ppa.
[03:55] <cody-somerville> Syco54645_, how are you trying to connect?
[03:56] <Syco54645_> cody-somerville: well i put it into my /etc/apt/source.list file and it doesnt work then
[03:56] <cody-somerville> Syco54645_, link to your PPA?
[03:56] <Syco54645_> http://ppa.launchpad.net/kuki-bakers/ubuntu even clicking to browse gives an error
[03:56] <Syco54645_> yet like i said, i was able to upload just fine to it
[03:57] <cody-somerville> Syco54645, https://edge.launchpad.net/~kuki-bakers/+archive shows no packages
[03:57] <cody-somerville> Syco54645, whats your launchpad page?
[03:57] <Syco54645> for the group?
[03:58] <cody-somerville> for you
[03:58] <Syco54645> https://edge.launchpad.net/~frank-claycomb
[03:59] <cody-somerville> Syco54645, your upload was rejected
[03:59] <cody-somerville> You do not have a gpg key uploaded to your account
[03:59] <Syco54645> cody-somerville: woops, thanks
[03:59] <Syco54645> ill fix it in the morning
[04:00] <Syco54645> too tired to mess with it now
[04:00] <Syco54645> dput did not say that it errored though
[04:00] <Syco54645> cannot remember what it said...
[04:00] <cody-somerville> dput won't error out
[04:00] <cody-somerville> It is just uploading the files
[04:00] <cody-somerville> you may get a reject e-mail if you're lucky
[04:00] <Syco54645> ah ok
[04:01] <Syco54645> do i need to do anything special the next time with dput?
[04:01] <NCommander> cody-somerville, the reject is usually sent to the email in GPG key that signed it
[04:01] <Syco54645> like a force or anything
[04:01] <NCommander> YOu'll need to use dput -f
[04:01] <NCommander> But you'll have to debsign the changes
[04:02] <Syco54645> NCommander: ok, thanks.  im off to bed now
[04:02] <Syco54645> its late here
[04:02] <NCommander> ok
[10:32] <vds> hi all
[10:32] <vds> I'm having some problem uploading a package to my ppa
[10:33] <vds> I've created a package updating to mainstream version
[10:33] <vds> send it using dput
[10:34] <vds> but it doens't show up in my ppa
[10:34] <vds> if I try to send it again I get Already uploaded to ppa.launchpad.net
[10:34] <vds> Doing nothing for
[10:34] <vds> anyone could help me with this?
[10:37] <Rinchen-sprintin> cprov, ^^
[10:37] <Rinchen-sprintin> vds, lots of us are sprinting so it might take some time.
[10:37] <Rinchen-sprintin> vds, to hear from us.
[10:38] <Rinchen-sprintin> vds, if you don't get any help, please email the user list or ask a question on LP
[10:38] <cprov> vds: what's the sourcename ?
[10:38] <vds> python-boto
[10:40] <cprov> vds: you changesfile is *unsigned*
[10:40] <cprov> s/you/your
[10:41] <cprov> vds: check https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[10:41] <vds> interesting I've been asked for the passphrase and it didn't complaint about anything...
[10:43] <cprov> vds: very likely you wasn't since your dsc was not signed either.
[10:44] <cprov> vds: be sure you don't pass '-uc -us' to debuild.
[10:50] <mok0> Is there a tutorial for using LP for packaging somewhere?
[10:50] <mok0> (LP alias bzr)
[10:51] <jtv> mok0: a la private package archives, you mean?
[10:51] <mok0> jtv: yes
[10:52] <mok0> jtv: for the packages I maintain
[10:52] <jtv> mok0: is this what you need?  https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[10:53] <mok0> Err, no, this is using a PPA. I am thinking about maintaining source packages in a bzr branch
[10:54] <mok0> Something like this, which is for git: http://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/git-buildpackage/manual-html/gbp.html
[10:55] <jtv> mok0: I'll see if I can catch someone on the Code team.
[10:56] <mok0> jtv: thanks a lot
[11:00] <jtv> mok0: hmm... doesn't sound very promising.  The suggestion I got was that you ask on #bzr.
[11:00] <kiko> mok0, there is something called bzr-buildpackage
[11:00] <LarstiQ> bzr-builddeb
[11:01] <kiko> what wouter said :)
[11:01] <mok0> kiko: I will take a look at that, thanks
[11:01] <LarstiQ> mok0: https://launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb
[11:01] <mok0> LarstiQ: hey, cool :-)
[11:16] <Syco54645> is there something wrong with ubuntu's key server?  i cannot add my gpg fingerprint to lp.
[11:19] <rockstar> Syco54645, could you provide some details?
[11:20] <Syco54645> when trying to add my fingerprint, it gives an error asking if i entered my finger print correctly, then it said did you publish your key.  when checking the ubuntu key server, it does not appear to be there.
[11:21] <wgrant> Erm, where did the topic go?
[11:22] <thumper> wgrant: away?
[11:22] <jtv> Hmm... last I saw it flash by was when I set it.
[11:22] <Ursinha> wgrant, to the land of lost topics
[11:22] <wgrant> Thanks Ursinha.
[11:22] <jtv> Funny... I tried that just now and it did nothing.
[11:23] <Ursinha> jtv, the channel is mocking you it seems
[11:23] <jtv> gah
[11:23]  * wgrant wonders if the freeing roadmap is public, or if the opening is closed.
[11:23] <thumper> haha
[11:25] <jtv> intellectronica: ping
[11:25] <intellectronica> jtv: hi
[11:25] <jtv> intellectronica: hi!
[11:26] <jtv> intellectronica: something tells me you would be able to make sense on this topic: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/48282
[11:26]  * intellectronica looking
[11:26] <jtv> intellectronica: (your fault for seeming knowledgeable I suppose)
[11:26] <jtv> intellectronica: somebody who had an account created (well, should be just a Person in the new setup) due to a bug import is getting email.
[11:27] <intellectronica> jtv: yes, looks like it's similar to the case we had a few days ago
[11:27] <jtv> intellectronica: I suppose closing the account would only cause it to be created again, so I'm guessing the email is the real problem.
[11:27] <intellectronica> there's a wiki page with instructions, let me try and find it. in any case, you'll have to ask one of the admin to do this
[11:27] <intellectronica> jtv: actually, you have db access, don't you?
[11:27] <jtv> intellectronica: staging only
[11:28] <intellectronica> so you'll need an admin
[11:28] <jtv> intellectronica: that's no problem, we have a box of them somewhere
[11:28] <jtv> intellectronica: if people remembered to make air holes and to feed regularly...
[11:29] <intellectronica> jtv: you shouldn't spoil them. first you give them air, soon they'll demand tropical coctails and foot massages
[11:30] <jtv> intellectronica: so?  stub's an admin, and he lives right here in Thailand
[11:30] <intellectronica> jtv: stub's an admin, and he's sitting right in front of me. let me see if i can get his attention
[11:31] <jtv> intellectronica: bad idea if you're the nearest candidate for giving him that foot massage.
[11:31] <jtv> intellectronica: have you *seen* his jabber portrait?
[11:42] <rockstar> Syco54645, have you added the key to the keyserver with gpg --send-key ?
[12:48] <mwhudson> barry: http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/loggerhead/
[12:48] <jelmer> bac, mwhudson: hi
[12:48] <jelmer> mwhudson, ah, you were quicker :-)
[12:49]  * wgrant files RC bugs against it.
[12:52] <barry> mwhudson: thanks!
[12:52] <mwhudson> jelmer: barry wants to install loggerhead on bzr.python.org
[12:53] <barry> actually code.python.org
[12:54] <barry> http://www.python.org/dev/bazaar/
[12:56] <jelmer> barry, ah, nice
[12:57] <jelmer> loggerhead is awesome
[12:58] <wgrant> Except when it decides to die. Which is somewhat often..
[12:58] <mwhudson> it only does that in the launchpad instance really
[12:59] <wgrant> Is that just because it gets a bit of use? Or because of the very strange backend that it must have?
[12:59] <mwhudson> best theory is that it's the level of use
[12:59] <mwhudson> it doesn't have a strange backend at all, it accesses the branches over http
[12:59] <wgrant> Oh.
[13:00] <mwhudson> there's nothing about the current setup that demands it be in the data centre
[13:01] <wgrant> I assumed that it would be accessing them directly from their LP-strange structure on the filesystem, but I guess that would make things overcomplex...
[13:01] <mwhudson> it runs on a separate machine now
[13:02] <mwhudson> so it needs to use some network protocol and, well, http was there :)
[13:02] <wgrant> Yep.
[13:02] <wgrant> The performance hit wouldn't be too huge from within the DC, I guess.
[13:02] <mwhudson> source package branches will require changes to this though as it makes the urls less analysable strictly textually
[13:02] <mwhudson> anyway, lunchtime here
[13:02] <wgrant> Yes... how're they going?
[13:03] <wgrant> Aha.
[14:20] <pecisk> hi people, how frequently Firefox CVS translations are imported into Launchpad? When last was done?
[14:20] <pecisk> when next is planned?
[14:35] <Rinchen-sprintin> jtv, ^^
[14:39] <jtv> pecisk: try asking asac on #ubuntu-mozillateam
[14:49] <Odd_Bloke> Rinchen-sprintin: Where are you sprintin'?
[14:49] <Rinchen-sprintin> Odd_Bloke, London
[14:50] <Odd_Bloke> Rinchen-sprintin: Oh, cool.  Launchpad, presumably?
[14:50] <Rinchen-sprintin> Odd_Bloke, yes!
[15:28] <sinzui> gmb: matsubara: lp:~sinzui-is/launchpad/subscribe-bug
[19:59] <ahasenack> so there is this ticket living inside a series (1.2) and it didn't make it. How do I move it to the next series, 1.3?
[19:59] <ahasenack> 1.3 already exists
[20:49] <lionel> is it a known bug that as a team administrator I can not change a user to admin (on edge) ?
[20:49] <lionel> I'm sure I used to do that...
[20:54] <persia> I thought only team owners could set administrators, although I may be mistaken.
[20:55] <lionel> I'm pretty sure I changed it some years ago
[20:55] <lionel> as a team admin, I can remove administrator status from other administrators :)
[20:56] <persia> Were you also the team owner?
[20:57] <lionel> on a team I am not the owner I can remove adminsitrator status on edge right now
[20:58] <lionel> and on a team I am not the owner, I changed once the status from approved to administrator
[21:02] <lionel> ah, persia you're right, it was not me who cliked on the button for granting administrators power
[21:02] <lionel> well, I will open a question for beeing sure
[21:02] <lionel> thanks
[23:19] <superm1> it would appear that something is wrong with the upload server for packages? I uploaded bluez nearly an hour ago, never got an email about it and it never landed in the unapproved queue?


[07:48] <thorwil> good morning!
[08:13] <knome> morning thorwil :)
[08:13] <thorwil> yo knome
[08:18] <knome> how are you?
[08:19] <thorwil> knome: alright, thanks. and you?
[08:20] <knome> pretty good. :)
[08:20] <thorwil> i'm considering to buy a domain and polish my wordpress blog a bit
[08:20] <knome> you should do that :)
[08:20] <thorwil> though longer term i want a better website
[08:21] <knome> which means?
[08:22] <thorwil> more control on all levels and some cleverness regarding categorization
[08:22] <knome> WP isn't enough for that or..
[08:23] <thorwil> not a base install. assuming there's no way around touching code myself, i want python
[08:23] <knome> why wouldn't there be a way to touch the code?
[08:23] <knome> oh, yeah
[08:23] <knome> i got it :P
[08:24] <thorwil> heh
[08:24] <knome> what about extending WP with a plugin?
[08:25] <thorwil> guess i should look what's available there
[08:25] <knome> but can't you have multiple levels of tags already?
[08:26] <thorwil> sure i can
[08:27] <knome> soo.... :D
[08:27] <knome> what was the problem again?
[08:29] <thorwil> wordpress.com doesn't allow me to edit css unless i pay dollars. don't recall the price, just that it was ridiculous for just that
[08:29] <knome> oh, .com
[08:29] <knome> :)
[08:29] <thorwil> so for that alone i will need another solution
[08:30] <thorwil> then i want a section on my site that is more like a wiki, but where edits will result in drafts for journal entries
[08:32] <knome> i want that as well
[08:32] <knome> ;)
[08:32] <thorwil> there should be a "portfolio item" kind of post, to be shown both in the journal and a portfolio section
[08:33] <thorwil> such posts should be associated with work-in-progress posts for the same project
[08:34] <knome> be back in 15
[08:34] <thorwil> k
[09:53] <knome> ugh
[09:53] <knome> couldn't get back then
[09:55] <knome> iainfarrell, morning! :)
[09:57] <iainfarrell> hey knome
[09:57] <iainfarrell> I'm afraid I'm still sick
[09:57] <iainfarrell> and need to get better
[09:57] <knome> yeah, no problem.
[09:57] <iainfarrell> but Marcus and Ivanka are looking at your ideas
[09:57] <knome> great
[09:57] <knome> will they send me some vector stuff?
[09:58] <iainfarrell> yeah
[09:58] <iainfarrell> we don't have final files yet
[09:58] <knome> okay, fantastic
[09:58] <iainfarrell> well
[09:58] <iainfarrell> they do
[09:58] <iainfarrell> but I don't
[09:58] <knome> ;]
[09:58] <iainfarrell> as I'm at home
[09:58] <knome> yup
[10:55] <knome> going to take a nap. see you later
[12:50]  * thorwil wonders if Jono ever recovers from being tickled pink
[13:20] <thorwil> http://vimeo.com/9580375
[15:51] <knome> thorwil, what was that about jono?
[16:55] <thorwil> knome: it's my impression that he likes to say he would be tickled pink when announcing things. like the next uds. it's not rare that he announces something
[16:56] <thorwil> knome: a pink Jono makes for a rather disturbing mental image, so maybe at least some announcements should be left to more color-stable people
[17:01] <knome> heh
[18:22] <huayra> 7j
[18:23] <thorwil> 8k
[18:24] <knome> 9l
[18:24] <vish> 6m
[18:25] <thorwil> vish just isn't progressive :)
[18:33] <vish> heh didnt want to enter double digits ;)
[18:59] <huayra> sorry. my daughter took over the machine
[19:03] <thorwil> huayra: nah, i was glad for the distraction :)
[19:04] <vish> huayra: we just like being jerks ;)
[19:06] <huayra> she hacked me
[19:06] <huayra> just kidding ;)
[19:49] <zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand#New%20GtkThemes
[20:07] <zniavre> is that a "project" or the real new theme ?
[20:08] <vish> zniavre: i think you stumbled upon the new branding before it was made public ;)
[20:09] <zniavre> it is public ...
[20:09] <kwwii> omg!
[20:09] <kwwii> indeed it is!
[20:10] <kwwii> now everyone can see what we've been working on
[20:10] <kwwii> at the pub, be online later for a qa session
[20:11] <knome> lol
[20:11] <zniavre> is it murrine and aurora engine?
[20:11] <knome> kwwii, q&a you mean? :P
[20:11] <kwwii> take a good look at it
[20:11] <kwwii> indeed
[20:11] <kwwii> zniavre: no murrine with a bit of pixmap
[20:11] <knome> kwwii, i already did :P
[20:12] <kwwii> anyway, time for beer, bbl
[20:12] <zniavre> cheers
[20:12] <vish> bah canoincal copied my idea for the metacity buttons ;/
[20:12] <knome> ;)
[20:12] <zniavre> my tooltips looks better than that
[20:13] <zniavre> ...
[20:15] <thorwil> troy_s: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
[20:15] <troy_s> thorwil: Oh good. They are into cows now.
[20:16] <troy_s> thorwil: I can't say that I wouldn't give it a huge plus one for dumping that nasty fricking face amateurdom.
[20:16] <troy_s> thorwil: But the dot to dot is ... well they should have maybe hired David Airey.
[20:16] <troy_s> thorwil: Typeface is solid.
[20:17] <troy_s> thorwil: It's tight.
[20:17] <thorwil> troy_s: yes, mostly. very sharp/hard, though
[20:17] <troy_s> thorwil: Naw. It's solid.
[20:18] <zniavre> borderless?
[20:18] <troy_s> thorwil: Very very very solid. The craptastic face is still in spread.  Period.
[20:18] <troy_s> thorwil: It's _exceptionally_ tight.
[20:19] <troy_s> thorwil: Very tight. Can't say that the dot is all super though. It has an odd centre of gravity.
[20:19] <knome> troy_s, lol
[20:19] <knome> :P
[20:19] <troy_s> thorwil: But that is but a blip. The forest is fantastic.
[20:20] <troy_s> thorwil: Even if one tree is a little Charlie Brown.
[20:23] <thorwil> troy_s: the logo-type surely conveys precision and engineering. great for the product. less so for the community
[20:23] <troy_s> thorwil: Bah.
[20:23] <troy_s> thorwil: It's good.
[20:23] <troy_s> thorwil: It's a well formed face, and it is well executed.
[20:27] <troy_s> Great adoption of Swiss big idea work with the Mark Twain quote.
[20:27] <Equiet> Everything in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand is meant as final?
[20:27] <troy_s> Not impressed at all with the CD mock cover... let's pray for some solid photography and not crap that we have had.
[20:27] <thorwil> Equiet: no
[20:27] <troy_s> And let's hope the wallpaper brings a little emotion. But on the whole... a solid 85% out of me.
[20:27] <troy_s> I am impressed.
[20:27] <thorwil> Equiet: if alone because there are 2 different logo-types in there
[20:28] <troy_s> thorwil: So what?
[20:28] <thorwil> troy_s: he asked if the stuff on the page is final ...
[20:28] <troy_s> thorwil: You are aware that there are more than a few identity campaigns that are out of multi faces etc?
[20:28] <Equiet> Uff, ok, then.
[20:29] <troy_s> thorwil: But your hint that it isn't final doesn't really mean much would be my point. It is entirely possible that there are variations for the identity. See Nickleodeon or like matters.
[20:30] <troy_s> Crap stale product of Asus etc. As a sort of forest through trees though, it is monumentally better.
[20:31] <thorwil> troy_s: those key members mentioned on the top, i was supposed to be one of them
[20:31] <thorwil> troy_s: on monday. bu the storm over europe got in the way. knome was there
[20:31] <knome> o/
[20:31] <troy_s> thorwil: Aw that's too bad.
[20:32] <troy_s> It's solid work by and large. I'll need to digest a bit.
[20:32] <troy_s> There are some glaring weaks: 1) Photography is borderline plastic rubbish. 1.1) CD / DVD cover would be indicative of uninspired, but again, that isn't a knock as it is purely a mock clearly. 2) Hope and pray that the fricking wallpaper can deliver some emotion.
[20:33] <troy_s> Absolutely love the Big Idea approach. Very tight.
[20:35] <troy_s> knome: How did it all shake down?
[20:36] <troy_s> knome: Were you part of the discussion?
[20:36] <knome> which discussion?
[20:36] <knome> :P
[20:37] <troy_s> knome: On the new identity campaign.
[20:37] <knome> well, i was in london on monday
[20:38]  * Equiet wonders why the purple was picked.
[20:38] <troy_s> Equiet: Forest through trees Eq.
[20:38] <knome> but we were pretty much just being shown the new stuff they had made
[20:38] <troy_s> Equiet: I could probably cite at least 10 good reasons that it is a solid choice.
[20:38] <knome> i'm just writing a blog post.
[20:38] <troy_s> knome: Ah. So no discussion... just revelation.
[20:38] <knome> yep, pretty much
[20:39] <troy_s> Equiet: 1) It's unique. That's positive.  The orange is the anchor and the mauve is a triplet.
[20:39] <knome> Aubergine ("purple") is not going to be the primary color for ubuntu
[20:39] <knome> orange will be number 1
[20:39] <Equiet> Well, for me, it's Mac OS X.
[20:40] <troy_s> Equiet: So if you know anything about colour theory, the mauve pairs well with that degree of orange. There is likely a wide angle yellow in there too.
[20:40] <knome> aubergine will be linked with canonical
[20:40] <artir> but why did yhey switched the position of the buttons?
[20:40] <troy_s> Equiet: I doubt it. Can't say that the connection is there.
[20:40] <artir> because of fitt's law ¿
[20:40] <troy_s> artir: ? What do you mean?
[20:40] <troy_s> artir: Bugger Fitts law. NOT relevant.
[20:40] <vish> artir: what fitts law!
[20:40] <artir> in the light theme, the buttons are at the left and now are at the right
[20:40] <artir> the case
[20:40] <Equiet> troy_s: The primary background of OS X is purple.
[20:40] <knome> artir, that's probably just coincidence.
[20:41] <artir> is that menues are at the top left of the windows
[20:41] <troy_s> The windeco _is_ weak. I'll give you that.
[20:41] <artir> so now the clickable places of the top of the window are at the left
[20:41] <troy_s> artir: That is a sad myopic choice really. It has nothing to do with Fitts or otherwise. It's called shitty design.
[20:41] <knome> artir, see my comment
[20:41] <vish> artir: the buttons to left is just to copy OSX ;p
[20:41] <troy_s> artir: The windeco is weak and the moving over to the left can't help but pull some association with OSX.
[20:41] <vish> ha
[20:42] <troy_s> Equiet: You are about a release behind. If you mean the Nebula mauve, you are talking something way speculative.
[20:42] <troy_s> Equiet: Look at Snow Leopard's cover. Look at their site. They suffer from pretty clinical application of colour.
[20:42] <troy_s> Equiet: As in _none_.
[20:42] <artir> troy_s: i agree with that
[20:42] <thorwil> it's an amazing color. everybody uses a different name :)
[20:42] <artir> i instantly thought: mac?
[20:42] <artir> and secondly: lots of users used to top right windows are going to go WTF?!
[20:42] <artir> i hope that's not a default
[20:43] <troy_s> artir: But to look at the clearly crap windeco as a pull down is just foolish. The overall positives VASTLY outweigh the negatives of that poopy crap decision by some ftard.
[20:43] <troy_s> artir: Who cares?
[20:43] <troy_s> artir: Who _really_ cares about Windows?
[20:43] <vish> artir: if you want to be employed in Canonical you need to be a MAC fanboy first ;)
[20:43] <troy_s> artir: Or OSX for that matter?
[20:43] <Equiet> troy_s: And that's beacause purple is the first color that reminds me OS X, excepting white.
[20:43] <artir> vish: most of the UX team have one
[20:43] <artir> :P
[20:43] <thorwil> artir: be really careful now. troy_s being happy and saying positive things, even being optimistic is a precious moment
[20:44] <troy_s> Equiet: You'd be in a minority I'd guess. If you asked a general population as to what colour defines OSX, you might equally get blue thanks to that stale blue wallpaper they had or their default icons etc.
[20:44] <artir> troy_s: I mean ubuntu users
[20:44] <thorwil> artir: maybe you will be able to tell your grandchildren of this historic moment
[20:44] <troy_s> artir: And that is unacceptable too.
[20:44] <artir> we have the buttons at right
[20:44] <artir> XD
[20:45] <artir> comme on the theme is not awesome, but it's not that bad
[20:45] <troy_s> artir: Let me say this loud and clear - Free Software is _not_ fundamentalist nor absolutist. It does not grant you the freedom to support companies that are in direct opposition to the movement.
[20:45] <zniavre> artir,  +1
[20:45] <Equiet> Also, I dislike that color. It was great for me only few months ago, but know I find it unmodern.
[20:45] <troy_s> artir: When jimmac or hylke or _anyone_ uses an Apple product, they are not helping the movement. And even more realistically, they are clearly only half-hearted committed to the cause.
[20:45] <Equiet> *s/know/now
[20:46] <artir> troy_s: until ubuntu becomes the best OS ever, they will use whatever is best to design for ubuntu
[20:46] <artir> linus thinks the same: use best tool for a task, even if it's privative
[20:46] <artir> their use of macos is justified here
[20:46] <troy_s> Equiet: Well that's another matter. I'd probably agree that our culture's agility regarding design really needs to amp up. It needs to be nebulous and mercurial and morph with the speed of thought. Leibniz bless his sould...
[20:46] <troy_s> artir: THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
[20:46] <artir> they will stop using it once ubuntu can do 100% of what they use mac for
[20:46] <troy_s> artir: Look... if the culture actually USED the fricking tools full time, the GLARING holes would be fixed
[20:47] <troy_s> artir: Worse, you are actually supporting a company that would, at all costs, drag down the very core of the ethic.
[20:47] <troy_s> artir: So it is entirely possible that Linus is way off base.
[20:47] <artir> troy_s: when did rms brainwashed you?
[20:47] <troy_s> artir: Did you ever stop to wonder why Linux took the throne away from BSD?
[20:48] <artir> because of GPL?
[20:48] <troy_s> artir: Do the math.  If all we end up as is a dime store fricking cheap low rent version of Windows XP that has a free core and proprietary bits all over much like XP / Win 7 / OSX already is, _did we actually achieve anything_?
[20:48] <troy_s> artir: It might be worth arguing that merit - yes.
[20:48] <artir> in the end, i would like a 100% system
[20:48] <artir> much as you do
[20:49] <artir> but having privative stuff now helps tus OS to grow
[20:49] <troy_s> artir: And if the very companies funding Free Software don't have the dedication to tell their employees to use it, what the hell is the point?
[20:49] <artir> they do!
[20:49] <artir> go ask kenvendine, tedg
[20:49] <artir> or those people
[20:49] <troy_s> artir: Think about this question: DO you think for even a brief fleeting moment that Steve Jobs would even _permit_ a Windows 7 box at Cupertino?
[20:49] <artir> ask them why do they (or not) use macos
[20:49] <troy_s> artir: That is a _new_ mandate for certain.
[20:49] <troy_s> :)
[20:49] <artir> obviously not
[20:49] <troy_s> artir: Exactly.
[20:50] <troy_s> artir: And we need _everyone_ to be as passionate as that. The fact that we don't have something should DRIVE the culture, not result in a bunch of half committed fools flipping over to their other boot partition.
[20:50] <troy_s> artir: It is the _very_ reason that Keynote was created as legend has it.
[20:50] <artir> i smell some blog discussion tomorrow :)
[20:50] <troy_s> At any rate, it is a _helluva_ improvement.
[20:51] <troy_s> I am sadly disappointed that the brown is gone however. It was _never_ executed properly and thrown out with the bathwater. It was always given a terrible execution and poor optics.
[20:51] <artir> yeah, brown->orange->beige/violet
[20:51] <artir> they could have done something better with it
[20:52] <artir> canonical will ( i hope ) adjust the theme according to the reaction of the community
[20:52] <knome> orange hasn't gone anywhere.
[20:53] <artir> orange is still there as pure orange
[20:53] <troy_s> artir: I hope they don't.
[20:53] <artir> brown did
[20:53] <troy_s> artir: I sincerely hope they ignore the culture of aesthetically bankrupt buffoonery.
[20:53] <huayra> I have to say you all have done a fantastic job there!
[20:53] <troy_s> artir: Stick to your guns. Play it out. Anyone with a shread of aesthetic analysis should be able to clearly see that there are _many_ more elements going the right way with the new direction as compared with the past.
[20:54] <troy_s> huayra: I believe it is all closed doors at Canonical. kwwii could likely shed light on it.
[20:54] <huayra> I am the driver of SpreadUbuntu and would publicly ask for better cooperation between our projects... Where this makes sense, of course.
[20:54] <artir> troy_s: I agree with that affirmation even more than you
[20:54] <troy_s> artir: But wow... you were right on the windeco. It's like... wow... please ... back to the sketch board. lol.
[20:54] <artir> i hate when they do things secretly
[20:54] <huayra> I have been contacted by Canonical to see what our project (SU) can do with this
[20:55] <troy_s> artir: The problem isn't the secrecy.
[20:55] <troy_s> artir: The issue is with a general aesthetic care that stops at age six or so and then gets really loud by 20something.
[20:55] <huayra> artir, I agree, but I also have to admit that something are better kept off the public eye and within the people doing the work
[20:56] <thorwil> huayra: great. the spreadubuntu/artwork disconnect is one of the things that has been bugging me
[20:56] <artir> well, but periodic information on the project would be welcome
[20:56] <huayra> *some things
[20:56] <troy_s> artir: The ill-informed, clueless, and completely sad understanding of art and design in our collective culture has _bred_ aesthetic bankruptcy. We follow people with no training, no ability, and a delusional conception of aesthetics.
[20:56] <troy_s> artir: Have a peek at GNOME 3's mocks.
[20:56] <huayra> thorwil, I saw your email on the marketing list
[20:56] <artir> which ones?
[20:56] <troy_s> artir: There aren't that many.
[20:56] <artir> gnome shell?
[20:56] <artir> or topaz?
[20:56] <huayra> it was never ment like that. I tried to approach the theme a while ago, but I might not have done it the right way
[20:57] <artir> or the ones from the UX meeting?
[20:57] <troy_s> artir: Yes.
[20:57] <troy_s> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=946
[20:57] <thorwil> huayra: approached the theme?
[20:57] <huayra> the team... sorry I am a bit tired here and it's getting late
[20:57] <artir> the greeen toolbar, blue menues, angles tabs mockup
[20:57] <artir> i.e.
[20:57] <artir> ?
[20:57] <huayra> but anyway. It could be very fruitful to see where our themes can cooperate
[20:57] <thorwil> huayra: here, too, actually. lets talk another time :)
[20:58] <huayra> and nonetheless invite the artwork team to use Spread Ubuntu
[20:58] <artir> troy_s: and if they suck that much at doing design, why don't you propose a new theme?
[20:58] <huayra> and we would of course be more than happy to make adaptations
[20:58] <artir> i've read your blog posts
[20:58] <artir> and you seem to understand desing
[20:58] <troy_s> artir: Because 1) it isn't that simple.  I was impressed with your blog thorwil. You and MadsRH are the members in the community that I really respect when it comes to design
[20:59] <troy_s> artir: I am but one fool. We need to all mature collectively to really push these types of rocks up the massive hills. I think we will get there from what I have seen of the community. I was far more skeptical a few years ago.
[20:59] <thorwil> huayra: thank you!
[20:59] <artir> the problem is that as far as things are right now, the new theme will come from the design team at canonical
[20:59] <troy_s> artir: But at the same time, the blind fanboyism and such needs to be tempered with analysis. It's not easy. I don't think anyone with a clue would say it was.
[21:00] <troy_s> artir: That's all good. I can live with that quite happily.
[21:00] <huayra> artir, then we should try to get and cooperate with the Canonical team.
[21:00] <artir> artwork team has tried to do that for a long long time :P
[21:00] <artir> look at the breathe icon set
[21:01] <artir> (i don't know if it's ready)
[21:01] <knome> huayra, artir: the design team is pretty much open to work on the new branding with the community.
[21:01] <artir> but it's better than humanity except for some minor inconsistencies
[21:01] <knome> huayra, artir: just ping iainfarrell
[21:01] <artir> he's here
[21:01] <huayra> knome, I know. iainfarrell and I have had lots of contact lately. What I meant is that we should just get cooperating with the team
[21:02] <vish> knome: you must be kidding right? " the design team is pretty much open to work on the new branding with the community."
[21:02] <knome> vish, no, i am not.
[21:02] <huayra> *we* as in the community
[21:02] <knome> vish, that doesn't mean you will get any changes through which you propose.
[21:03] <huayra> vish, he is not. I can testify that Canonical is very open to community input and even proactive in doing so
[21:03] <knome> vish, they have a solid idea of the branding, and i think they are doing the exact correct thing not changing it when the first person dislikes it.
[21:03] <huayra> in the SU case they wanted to talk to us. I felt really happy to hear from them :-)
[21:07] <troy_s> huayra: Ask yourself this: What can the community possibly bring to the table?
[21:07] <troy_s> huayra: Find me a _single_ member of the community that would be hired at a say, production assistant level at a large company for graphic design / artistic work?
[21:08] <troy_s> huayra: Hate to sound brutally honest on that front, but I bet you can't find one.
[21:08] <troy_s> huayra: Feel free to look at everyone.
[21:08] <huayra> troy_s, what's your point then?
[21:08] <huayra> the whole is greater than the sum of the parts
[21:08] <knome> the community can bring things to the table, but those are for the community projects anyway, where community have more power.
[21:08] <troy_s> huayra: Point is that when someone shows up that can actually bring tangible credibility to the table in some capacity, then perhaps that collaboration will happen.
[21:09] <troy_s> huayra: The community is a huge strength and asset... absolutely. But practically speaking, you have just more or less suggested that you get community members to code for the kernel with no background / training / capability.
[21:09] <huayra> every collaboration is important not in how you messure its professionality, but you meassure it in terms of human capital, time, love for something
[21:10] <troy_s> huayra: Agree 100% with you. That 'emotional investment' is perhaps worth more than money.
[21:10] <huayra> there are people that are not programmers that have contributed fantastic kernel code, yes
[21:10] <troy_s> huayra: But the reality of the community bringing something to the table art / design / execution wise is ... low.
[21:10] <huayra> troy_s: yes
[21:10] <troy_s> huayra: Wow. You need to browse those GIT commit logs. ;)
[21:11] <troy_s> huayra: Just not happening. Even talented coders get declined from the kernel. That's Linus' domain.
[21:11] <huayra> I would say that the core team of every team boils down to 1-5% of everyone in the team
[21:11] <troy_s> huayra: The term you are looking for is the Pareto principle.
[21:11] <huayra> yes, I know troy_s
[21:11] <NoobFukaire> Are the new themes going around available anywhere? the ones for lucid?
[21:11] <NoobFukaire> they look dust based?
[21:11] <troy_s> NoobFukaire: I suspect you will be waiting.
[21:11] <huayra> I am talking experience here, my own in this community
[21:11] <troy_s> NoobFukaire: It certainly has a lineage in Dust doesn't it? Aside from the windeco.
[21:12] <NoobFukaire> yeah
[21:12] <NoobFukaire> I'm not really crazy about it (although i really like dust)
[21:12] <NoobFukaire> but I wanted to try it out
[21:13] <huayra> but troy_s we know this. Can't we just try to make the best out of it and try to empower those contributors so their contribution has more impact even if it just happens once?
[21:13] <troy_s> NoobFukaire: I strongly suspect that you will see changes on that front. Just a total guess.
[21:13] <NoobFukaire> so those are probably mockups then?
[21:13] <troy_s> huayra: Did I ever sound like I was trying to keep the community down? ;) You misread me possibly.
[21:13] <huayra> the core team should work towards building the most effective collaboration platform possible in all the Ubuntu Community projects and teams
[21:13] <troy_s> NoobFukaire: I don't think they are mocks entirely maybe... But the point is that you can expect some changes for certain.
[21:14] <huayra> troy_s: I did not. I know where you stand. I am just trying to get you to jump in my wagon ;)
[21:14] <troy_s> huayra: I'm likely already there. The real source of inspiration comes from the _new_ community. The 'old guard' has mangled things up almost beyond repair.
[21:14] <huayra> NoobFukaire: many of them are mockups. You can certainly expect changes.
[21:14] <thorwil> fun, but i have to, good night! :)
[21:15] <huayra> troy_s, agree. As part of the old guard believeing in the ways of work of the _new_ community I am still here...
[21:16] <huayra> This is too important to be given up because of lack of cooperation skills of a subset of the community
[21:18] <troy_s> huayra: I'd be so bold as to say that a huge amount of progress can be made if those with little caring and attention to art and design just sat down in a corner and shut up.
[21:18] <troy_s> huayra: I have changed my tune on that front a little - I used to be silent about it. But I can't stress it enough that it is rather like having a cluster of vocal people that can't code talking about Kernel issues.
[21:19] <troy_s> huayra: That said, I still hope that we can get some degree of acceptance of cultural differences too. I'd love to see a thriving culture of art and design with unique and disparate cultural vantages. Could be pretty damn cool.
[21:19] <troy_s> huayra: Instead though, we have blind usability polls talking about icons and rubbish.
[21:20] <huayra> you make it sound elithistic, but I kind of agree: If you do not have a qualified voice (qualified here is your inner, logical, voice telling you that your opinions transcends the dialogue
[21:20] <huayra> ) then do not say anything
[21:21] <huayra> so troy_s where do you think that the Artwork team and Spread Ubuntu can work together? Besides, of course, beautifying the Spread Ubuntu site ebven more ;-)
[21:21] <troy_s> huayra: I can't help but sound that way. I hate to sound that way. But I have watched too much rubbish peddled from too many clueless folks. I'm sorry.
[21:22] <troy_s> huayra: I haven't followed spread ubuntu since the dark ages when Dan Buch tried to make it reality. I _really_ loved his vision to be honest.
[21:22] <troy_s> huayra: I was saddened that no one else saw the huge strengths of it.
[21:23] <troy_s> huayra: And doing websites stinks. I've been slaving away with four other folks on the new mythbuntu vision for far too long. It's hard when we are all only capable of splits and splurts.
[21:23] <troy_s> huayra: where is the site currently?
[21:23] <huayra> I have been trying to take over that work and that idea
[21:24] <huayra> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
[21:24] <huayra> It has a lot of room for improvement. I know. We are in 0.2 ;-)
[21:24] <huayra> ish
[21:24] <troy_s> huayra: Oops. You probably already know how I feel about that typeface (if you give it that much credibility... perhaps too much.)
[21:24] <troy_s> huayra: Jump on the boat. Kick the old out! lol.
[21:26] <huayra> the project is basically 3 people of which one is making the implementation codewise, the other is getting the community to notice and me doing the PR/Marketing/Political work of the site itself
[21:26] <troy_s> huayra: If you want at least a starting point, I'd suggest you start with a publishing grid.
[21:26] <huayra> the rest is contributions by Ubuntu users worldwide
[21:26] <troy_s> huayra: Believe me... I know how undermanned everyone is. I appreciate that fully.
[21:27] <huayra> all in all we might have had up to 100 different contributors
[21:27] <huayra> maybe even more
[21:27] <huayra> I would like the artwork team to use the site to showcase their newest designs and material
[21:28] <huayra> and whatever adaptations we have to make to the site to make that happen would be made
[21:29] <huayra> troy_s, a publishing grid.. can you ellaborate?
[21:29] <alefteris> hi all! sorry if it's been asked before, but what's the font used in the new logo design?
[21:29] <huayra> remember I work with sales and marketing, but I am by no means a designer
[21:30] <troy_s> huayra: Hrm. Whenever you read a magazine or publishing, there is a secret code buried in it.
[21:30] <Kangarooo> hello. who made design for new branding?
[21:30] <troy_s> huayra: It can look entirely varied, but it is there. There is a sort of infrastructure behind it that you might not see initially.
[21:30] <huayra> alefteris I have tried to extract that font from a source PDF I got, but it only had the "ubnt" chars...-
[21:30] <troy_s> Kangarooo: If I had to bed, I'd say Dom had a huge influence on it.
[21:31] <alefteris> huayra, but at the wiki page, the ubuntu qa seems to use the same font and for q and q chars
[21:32] <alefteris> and a chars*
[21:32] <huayra> alefteris, it's because they have access to the font. I have not. Taht's why the "spread ubuntu" logo uses the ubuntu-title font
[21:32] <huayra> as well as the new one
[21:33] <troy_s> huayra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_layout
[21:34] <troy_s> huayra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_(page_layout)
[21:36] <huayra> get it. BUt now you are thinking totally professionalized material
[21:36] <huayra> Spread Ubuntu shows the street side of the Community
[21:36] <troy_s> huayra: Not at all.
[21:36] <huayra> where everyone can upload anything they have made
[21:36] <troy_s> huayra: You are aware of Dan Buch's original idea that I helped him out with a bit?
[21:36] <huayra> it's up to their own judgement
[21:37] <huayra> I have analized all the ideas (there are at least 3 I know of before Evan and I took hand of this project)
[21:37] <troy_s> huayra: It was playing into that _exactly_ notion. He took the idea that it was entirely DIY and I said "Push it further", so the actual original vision was to have a site that was sort of like a do-it-yourself store with tape and such on it.
[21:37] <huayra> let me refresh my tired brain
[21:38] <Kangarooo> troy_s: so Dom made it? or many designers made it? theres a project Ubuntu Drupal witch is ment as loco teams website and i would like if a theme as branding would be made for locos
[21:38] <Kangarooo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme/+spec/karmic-ud-theme
[21:38] <troy_s> huayra: There may even be a mock or two out there. But the point of a publishing grid should not be lost regardless - they work, they simplify, and they make it manageable.
[21:38] <huayra> but that's what we have. We show you the material and give you the source (SVG/ODT) so you can play
[21:38] <troy_s> Kangarooo: I suspect Dom had a bit of input on it. Pure speculation, but there are elements of his work in there.
[21:38] <huayra> and upload it back if you want
[21:39] <huayra> with strong emphasis in language features and easy access to the stuff... But, as I said, we need more brainpower into the project
[21:39] <troy_s> Kangarooo: You can expect the default site to likely be very much already what you see there as a guess. Remember - I know NOTHING about all of this. I'd just bet that the primary touchpoint of the whole thing - ubuntu.com - will look much like those uh... mocks. ;)
[21:42] <Kangarooo> ok so these designs are confirmed? if yes then loco teams websites would have to look similar. so Ubuntu Drupal if would have this theme made for locos with #ubuntu-artwork team then that would make more recognision as locos to ubuntu. i hope im making sense :)
[21:42] <Kangarooo> it was long day for me with bug making in LP
[21:42] <troy_s> Kangarooo: I would expect that you could run your loco as you wish.
[21:42] <troy_s> Kangarooo: But I have no clue how the drupal etc theming would unfold.
[21:44] <huayra> Kangarooo, I am asking the Ubuntu.copm webmaster if he has something he has been working in
[21:44] <huayra> so the ubuntu.drupal team can have access to it and we do not have to reinvent the wheel
[21:44] <Kangarooo> well 3 options i see now witch comes out of that of course loco can be run as each thinks it needs to be run. 1. dont change design. 2. each loco makes each new design. 3. Ubuntu Drupal theme is made and all locos use UD and new theme. only one theme for all
[21:45] <knome> afaik, the design team is going to supply some kind of drupal theme for the loco's
[21:45] <huayra> so all LoCo's can count on the ubuntu-drupal project to solve that issue. As usual
[21:45] <huayra> that team is full of rock stars!
[21:46] <knome> i think this time the theme would come directly from UX
[21:47] <sanderqd> i hope the 3px window border at the bottom will get removed - the Appearance dialog isn't in balance at the bottom left right now
[21:51] <troy_s> knome: I don't.
[21:52] <troy_s> knome: They should let (if I suspect Dom) handle it. The windeco is appaling.
[21:52] <zacbarton> i wonder how they plan to support the buttons on the left and right in the new theme as the buttons are joined
[21:52] <troy_s> knome: Or even roll with Dust modified slightly. It is unique enough.
[21:52] <troy_s> zacbarton: Simple metacity can do that.
[21:53] <sanderqd> in 10.04 the window borders will be drawn by gtk+, so even more possibilities
[21:53] <zacbarton> troy_s: ive had issues with Homosapien where the buttons are also joined
[21:53] <zacbarton> using the same theme and switching the buttons (via gconf) breaks the theme
[21:54] <zacbarton> i needed a theme for the left and a different one for the right
[21:54] <knome> troy_s, i was talking about the drupal theme.
[21:55] <vish> troy_s: who is Domonique edwards?, any earlier links work of his?
[21:55] <zacbarton> also with windows that just ahve a close button. how will that look. using copiz i expect it wony look to good  - http://www.zacbarton.com/metacity_vs_compiz.png
[21:55] <vish> *links/work
[21:56] <troy_s> vish: He is on Behance.
[21:56] <troy_s> vish: By far the most talented fellow on the design team from what I have seen in terms of aesthetics / execution.
[21:57] <troy_s> zacbarton: It will get sorted. I can't see them keeping that nasty win deco. It's simply awful.
[21:58] <zacbarton> troy_s: yea it will be interesting to see how they tackle the button left vs right problem (which i face with Homosapien also)
[21:58] <zacbarton> i also noticed in the screenshots that there is no menu icon
[22:00] <troy_s> zacbarton: What is the left right problem?
[22:00] <troy_s> zacbarton: You mean getting them over to the left?
[22:00] <zacbarton> another thing (im seeing a lot) is that the buttons in the screenshot appear in the same order as they would on the right (min,max,close) i suspect if the buttons were on the left but in close,max,min order the theme would be screwed
[22:02] <troy_s> zacbarton: I wouldn't worry about it. Baby steps. Let's just hope Dust proper gets pushed and we can call it a general win.
[22:02] <zacbarton> troy_s: not so much in moving theme but in how the theme would be drawn if moved. for eg the close button has a rounded right corner but if you want the close as the first button on the left the corner would need to be on the left
[22:03] <zacbarton> troy_s: not so worried just interested to see how the overcome the problem :-)
[22:04] <troy_s> zacbarton: There are more than enough coders at Canonical that could fix a minor detail like that in about two seconds flat. Some pretty damn brilliant and talented folks actually in the code department.
[22:04] <sanderqd> zacbarton: there is a chance they built this theme using the new gtk+ client-side decoration
[22:05] <zacbarton> sanderqd: then that could change things :-)
[22:06] <troy_s> sanderqd: I'd bet not yet.
[22:06] <troy_s> If I had to gamble, I'd say that in fact what you see is just a loose hack.
[22:06] <troy_s> As in all GTK / Metacity.
[22:06] <troy_s> Nothing special.
[22:06] <troy_s> And if I also had to bet, I'd bet that the window decoration lasts maybe less than a few weeks.
[22:06] <sanderqd> that's a good gamble, but there would be landing some client-side deco themes soon
[22:06] <zacbarton> troy_s: no doubt there is. ill be watching to see what they do. maybe ill end up fixing a issue i have with Homosapien (without having to cde for buttons on left and buttons on right)
[22:07] <zacbarton> id love to see how to fix it properly
[22:07] <zacbarton> cde = code
[22:12] <vish> troy_s: ha ,found him , had his spelling wrong ;)
[22:15] <troy_s> vish: Yep.
[22:40] <kwwii> hey troy_s
[22:40] <troy_s> kwwii: Greets Ken.
[22:40] <troy_s> kwwii: How are things?
[22:40] <kwwii> how's things this evening?
[22:40] <kwwii> hehe, good!
[22:41] <kwwii> ivanka showed me your email ;)
[22:41] <troy_s> kwwii: Rendering. Trying desperately to get it out.
[22:41] <troy_s> kwwii: She deserves it.
[22:41] <kwwii> hehe
[22:41] <kwwii> troy_s: now you beleive me?
[22:41] <kwwii> ;)
[22:41] <troy_s> kwwii: She pushed a monumental rock up a hill that ... well let's say the hill doesn't like the idea I'm sure at first.
[22:41] <troy_s> kwwii: Shup and fix that fricking windeco.
[22:41] <kwwii> lol
[22:41] <troy_s> kwwii: I had a hunch Dom's fingers are ALL over that.
[22:42] <kwwii> we are building it in csd as well as normal metacity
[22:42] <kwwii> lol, actually marcus and otto did the brand and font work
[22:42] <troy_s> kwwii: Everything is extremely tight... glaring obvious oopsies are the assy looking plasticy monstrosity of a computer (aka the ongoing battle of nasty photography) and that fricking windeco.
[22:42] <troy_s> kwwii: But small points really.
[22:42] <kwwii> the font stuff is amazing ;)
[22:42] <kwwii> hehe
[22:42] <troy_s> kwwii: The emblem is ... something wrong there.
[22:42] <kwwii> true
[22:43] <kwwii> for lucid there are still a lot of changes coming in
[22:43] <troy_s> kwwii: I just get the feeling that you all should have brought in a true specialist like David Airey.
[22:43] <kwwii> but for lucid I doubt we will be able to fix everything as we would like
[22:43] <troy_s> kwwii: The typeface is solid. The emblem is sort of ... just plain ... odd.
[22:43] <kwwii> yeah
[22:43] <troy_s> kwwii: Can't finger it, but it's there.
[22:43] <troy_s> kwwii: And it really feels tacked on, which is probably a larger concern.
[22:43] <kwwii> i think it was one of those pieces that we couldn't change
[22:44] <kwwii> so it kinda came along as-is as best as possible
[22:44] <troy_s> kwwii: As though a great deal of thought went into the face (who did it?) and not a lot into how to make that CoF fit.
[22:44] <troy_s> kwwii: There isn't much wrong with the actual logo itself... just seems tacked onto the whole thing.
[22:44] <troy_s> kwwii: But anyways, it's like bickering over the number of sesame seeds on the bun.
[22:44] <kwwii> ;)
[22:45] <troy_s> kwwii: Neither here nor there. Windeco needs help and love though. God please.
[22:45] <kwwii> and it will become better, no worries
[22:45] <kwwii> we honestly have long-term plans now ;)
[22:45] <troy_s> kwwii: I'd guess as much. Crappers... even just a mod of dust.
[22:46] <troy_s> kwwii: Good. That's positive.
[22:46] <troy_s> kwwii: A huge step up on the splash too. That thing we are blessed with right now is ... ugh.
[22:46] <troy_s> kwwii: When all else fails, gut it. lol.
[22:47] <kwwii> lol
[22:48] <troy_s> kwwii: The bulk of that presentation is Dom's work though on the web I'd guess. I can see the grid etc. It has obvious win.
[22:49] <troy_s> kwwii: I only hope that whoever did the type didn't seriously come too close without paying due respect. If that is a copy of a face somewhere or too close, you can expect nothing short of a nightmare backlash.
[22:50] <troy_s> kwwii: Hilarious Ivanka showed you the email.
[22:51] <kwwii> troy_s: well, the team is closer than you would think
[22:51] <troy_s> kwwii: Not at all.
[22:51] <kwwii> we all just got back from the pub ;)
[22:51] <troy_s> kwwii: That's a good thing.
[22:51] <kwwii> and for my part, i am going to head down to the hotel bar and get another drink!
[22:51] <troy_s> Lol.
[22:54] <knome> kwwii, haha, congrats :P
[22:58] <MTecknology> Kangarooo: hi
[22:58] <Kangarooo> hi MTecknology
[23:59] <bognarandras> hi! so... in lucid there is only one panel or the bottom panel is just hide on the new brand screenshots? (sorry for the bad english)