[00:01] <tt94> You think canonical would go as far to remove all debs (including flatpak) and replace them purely with snaps?
[00:18] <murmel> tt94: I mean they already have a distro which is debless
[00:40] <Y05hito__> Isn't snaps supposed to integrate library depencies etc? like a small virtual environment for the app. cause the deb packages are using the systems installed files, shared libraries etc. If yes, removing the use of deb files is a non-sense, except if the snaps can be really part of the system, and not being 'mounted' like a virtual file systems, with things compiled in their own box.
[00:44] <murmel> Y05hito__: why? I mean they contain almost everything to run the app you "snapped up". you can also depend on other snaps (for example gnome or a cli snap). but yeah, they contain everything so they don't interact too much with the rest of the system
[00:49] <Y05hito__> murmel, yeah if they can share snaps one app and the other, that would prevent things to get much larger for nothing...with different version of same libs or resources per snaps etc, but virtualized package apps 'mounted' on the filesystem is a bit weird. But i don't know.
[00:50] <Y05hito__> One advantage is that it's more portable i guess, the snap can run on many more platforms without modifications maybe. Linux distribs etc. Like a windows .zip files with the .exe and .dll inside.
[00:56] <murmel> Y05hito__: yes, and honestly, I am pretty sure most people don't care too much about space nowadays, as disks (also ssds) are quite big already. additionally, we always forget that linux uses way less space than the other 2 oses (bsd excluded)
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[17:02] <Intelo> Linux, I believe and guess, isn't that stable as freebsd is. Or is it just ubuntu and I should try another distro? anyway, with specially UI, it bloats under heavy load. Now the problem is that Linux has a lot of utilities that I am used to an need. Some configs, shortcuts etc. Until I find a way, how can I run both linux and freebsd at the same
[17:02] <Intelo> time? I thought of installing freebsd as guess and linux as host in virtualbox. Or vice versa is better? Or any other option? I think virtualbox based virtualization will be a bottleneck somewhere? Do I have other options? I need to run both at the same time in the start so that I can use in linux what freebsd does not have (or I do not yet get an
[17:02] <Intelo> alternative/solution)? Any thoughts?
[17:04] <daftykins> what do you find unstable?
[17:06] <Intelo> bloat/slowness
[17:06] <Intelo> unresponsiveness
[17:06] <daftykins> those are not synonyms of instability
[17:11] <Intelo> daftykins I hope you got my feelings despite that
[17:12] <amacater_> Intelo: I'd suggest, if you can, explaining what you mean by bloats under heavy load.
[17:12] <daftykins> i prescribe to a world where we use accurate words to convey things, so that the wrong end of the stick isn't grabbed
[17:12] <leftyfb> btw, this conversation is also going on in #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:13] <amacater_> I'd also definitely *NOT* suggest using virtualbox under any circumstances, since some of the extension packs are personal use only. Use KVM and virt-manager, perhaps?
[17:13] <amacater_> "Linux isn't as stable" covers an awful lot of ground :)
[17:13] <Intelo> amacater_ I see. so I should use KVM or qemu or any other?
[17:14] <amacater_> Install a gui and virt-manager and it will probably offer to install KVM/qemu for you :)
[17:14] <Intelo> kvm != qemu?
[17:15] <daftykins> oh a cross-poster, nice
[17:15]  * daftykins walks away
[17:15] <amacater_> If you're only used to freebsd, I'd suggest strongly that you install Ubuntu somewhere and learn how it works first.
[17:16] <amacater_> Particularly the Debian/Ubuntu way of installing software packages and their dependencies.
[17:18] <Intelo> amacater_ I am used to ubuntu and want to migrate to stabler solutions like fbsd
[17:19] <amacater_> I'd suggest moving to Debian first since that will work similarly to Ubuntu - but advocacy for other distributions is probably offtopic here (and on #ubuntu-offtopic).
[17:22] <Intelo> amacater_ debian is far more stable than ubuntu?
[17:24] <leftyfb> Intelo: nobody here is going to discuss Debian or *BSD being better than Ubuntu/Linux. Try #linux or continue with your discussion in #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:24] <Intelo> ok . thanks
[17:24] <Intelo> amacater_ would you join #linux ?


[04:01] <akgraner> maco - very cool  - http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/ROSE-Blog-Rikki-s-Open-Source-Exchange/Motivation-and-Open-Source
[04:03] <nhandler> Cool. I saw the video, didn't see the article
[04:04] <akgraner> and Rikki blogged about World Play Day last week as well  - http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/ROSE-Blog-Rikki-s-Open-Source-Exchange/Ubuntu-Women-Announce-World-Play-Day-Competition
[08:26] <dholbach> good morning
[15:04] <czajkowski> etali: thank you for the kind comment on the wiki
[15:11] <nigelb> czajkowski, its ossbarcamp right?
[15:11] <nigelb> the events that you were organizing on saturday?
[15:12] <czajkowski> nigelb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski#Testimonials%20for%20EMEA%20Regional%20Membership%20Board
[15:12] <czajkowski> nigelb: I'm going for EMEA and etali left a nice comment
[15:12] <nigelb> czajkowski, I'm in the processing of reviewing my testimonial :D
[15:13] <AlanBell> nigelb: it was ossbarcamp
[15:13] <AlanBell> czajkowski: you might drop a hint in -uk
[15:14] <nigelb> AlanBell, thank you :)
[15:14] <czajkowski> hmm why didnt ossbarcamo highlight
[15:14] <czajkowski> odd
[15:14] <czajkowski> *ossbarcamp
[15:15] <AlanBell> oggcamp
[15:15] <nigelb> czajkowski, you have one more :) (I wanted to write today morning, but I was getting late, hence the delay)
[15:16] <czajkowski> Thank you
[15:16] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ahh that works
[15:16] <AlanBell> nigelb: broken linkie
[15:17] <nigelb> AlanBell, it was from above.  laura has lots of broken linkie then
[15:17] <czajkowski> nigelb: thank you
[15:17] <nigelb> :)
[15:17] <AlanBell> indeed it is
[15:18] <nigelb> czajkowski, AlanBell fixed both instances of that linky
[15:21] <czajkowski> lovely
[16:33] <nigelb> czajkowski, linky to dublin release party?
[16:33] <czajkowski> let me go see
[16:34] <czajkowski> nigelb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/Events#Release%20Parties%20/%20Geeknic
[16:34] <nigelb> ty :)
[16:35] <czajkowski> np
[17:57] <maco> akgraner: ooh neat
[23:02] <pleia2> oh, I spoke with cathy malmrose at a conference last week and asked her about t-shirts
[23:02] <akgraner> yeah?
[23:03] <pleia2> she knows a local (to where we are) place that does small runs, high quality, pretty cheap
[23:03] <akgraner> do teall
[23:03] <akgraner> tell
[23:03] <akgraner> dang to excited to type
[23:03] <pleia2> hehe
[23:03] <pleia2> so I'll follow up this lead a bit and see where it goes, it would be awesome if she could help us with distribution
[23:03] <czajkowski> should note akgraner loco just got approved


 Maybe he has Internet connection problems (again)
[12:43] <jerit_> can I ask about my mail server here? Apparently its having authentication problems... http://pastebin.com/PxEdX61H
[12:43] <jerit_> authentication problems I've got no idea how to fix
[15:01] <superfly> jerit_: is that your MTA or your SMTP server?
[15:03] <jerit_> thats my SMTP
[15:03] <jerit_> I've narrowed down the problem to some issue with the DNS
[15:03] <jerit_> since I can ping the IP address but not the hostname
[15:04] <jerit_> or rather the hostname isn't resolving to the correct ip address
[15:18] <jerit_> interestingly enough there's a ban listed on my server for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>which isn't an email address I've created... wonder who tried to access the server on that email address
[17:46] <Kilos> evening all
[17:47] <Kilos> im still alive and still on meds till steve bhiko has a gap for bypass ops
[17:52] <Kilos> they years behind or so doc tells me. they gonna try get me in sooner because of seriousness of arteries condition
[18:47] <Langjan> Hi Kilos did your boss give you the day off?
[18:53] <Kilos> hahaha hi Langjan
[18:54] <Kilos> what you doing ion lubuntu now
[18:55] <Langjan> Hi Kilos I installed Lubuntu for a neighbour who was battling with a dated win xp
[18:55] <Langjan> You keeping well?
[18:56] <Langjan> pavlushka was looking for you
[18:57] <Kilos> yes im ok ty been all day at hospital
[18:57] <Kilos> they say steve bhiko has massive backlog with heart jobs
[18:58] <Kilos> you can see if you contacts can move me up the list'
[18:58] <Kilos> id prefer 2 stents to 2 eart bypasses
[18:58] <Langjan> Ai!
[18:59] <Langjan> So when do you hope to get in?
[18:59] <Kilos> the doc hoping when they see the severity they will squeeze me in
[19:00] <Kilos> according to dock im running at danger levels
[19:01] <Langjan> Well I have come to that conclusion myself
[19:01] <Kilos> Langjan join #phillw and ask for lubuntu help there ive told melodie you having screen issues
[19:02] <Langjan> OK thks, I have had a few mails which suggest I check connections and screen first
[19:03] <Kilos> join there man
[19:03] <Langjan> If that does not sort the prob I will follow up on that, many thanks
[19:03] <Kilos> they waiting for you
[19:03] <Kilos>   type in /j #phillw
[19:03] <Langjan> type in where?
[19:04] <Kilos> here
[19:04] <Langjan> ok im in
[19:04] <Kilos> that means join that channel
[19:06] <Langjan> It keeps saying "Cannot send to channel"
[20:08] <Kilos> sorry got an out of bundle message and internet gone


[03:49] <shang> hi all, anyone awake? I have seen someone can live upgrade a service to a newer version and roll back
[03:50] <shang> but I am not sure how to do that in the command
[06:40] <r3d64r_> ahlo
[06:41] <r3d64r_> what is the juju thing I been hearing about?
[09:19] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, nice work on the solr charm BTW
[09:20] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: thanks!
[09:20] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, I currently working on the lucene/solr3 packaging for quantal - will bump it up to 3.6.0
[09:20] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: when I get some time, I'd love to hookup Hadoop to it, so you can use Hadoop to build your indexes
[09:21] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, that would be sweet
[09:26] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: the bump in package version is great .. what do we normally do with charms in such situations, do we add Ubuntu flavour logic to them so they use packages on Quantal and download on Precise?
[09:30] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, good question - charms are linked to a distro anyway so its possible to have a different charm for quantal
[09:30] <jamespage> but it would be nice to have that as a feature in the charm - I suspect it would be quite easy to backport the package to precise anyway....
[09:31] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, have you tried the existing solr 1.4 packages in Ubuntu?  any feedback?  I'd like to make the solr 3.6.0 packaging rock as much as possible
[09:33] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: yeah, I tried the 1.4 packages.. the charm uses its layout in most cases
[09:33] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, good - I've kept much the same for 3.6.0
[09:34] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, I just adopted the package in Debian as it had been orphaned - hope to get the 3.6.0 version uploaded before Debian freeze this month
[09:34] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: in general they were good, no problems
[09:34] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, OK - well let me know if you see anything that would make deployment easier
[09:34] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: sure, np
[09:34] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, just out of interest does the charm use the built in solr replication stuff or the older snap* scripts
[09:35] <jamespage> I could look but I'm feeling lazy
[09:35] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: built-in
[09:35] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: those snap scripts are .. well, a bit hacky
[09:35] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, good
[09:35] <jamespage> it was definately old school
[09:36] <jamespage> last big solr implementation I did that was the only option - I think it was 1.2 but I can't remember exactly!
[09:36] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: plus the 3.6 release they finally closed up some of the security holes regarding the select and qt=<handler>
[09:36] <jamespage> +1
[09:36] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: i.e. it's disabled by default
[09:37] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: which at least makes URL based password restrictions possible
[09:37] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: 1.2 must have been nasty, it's only really started to grow up as a project recently
[09:38] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: the config file itself is already a nightmare to get through
[09:38] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, yeah - I hate xml config - esp ones like solr
[09:38] <jamespage> its really code IMHO
[09:38] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: yeah
[13:00] <lynxman> jamespage: I'm starting to review your Hadoop Charm
[13:01] <jamespage> lynxman, think the action is on me ATM
[13:01] <lynxman> jamespage: Ah alright, I'm the reviewer for today so just starting by the newest :)
[13:02] <lynxman> jamespage: I'll change it to work in progress then
[13:05] <jamespage> lynxman, just pushed a new version if you want to review....
[13:06] <lynxman> jamespage: yay!
[13:39] <m_3> morning gang
[13:47] <hazmat> m_3, g'morning
[14:03] <lynxman> jcastro: let me know whenever you're around
[14:04] <lynxman> m_3: morning!
[14:04] <jcastro> hi
[14:04] <lynxman> jcastro: hey, let me DM you
[14:19] <cheez0r> juju masters: where does juju pull the SSH key from when you run juju bootstrap? I've run ssh-keygen -t rsa, I've got the id_rsa and id_rsa.pub in my ~/.ssh directory, but when I run juju bootstrap and then juju status, I get "Invalid SSH Key" and if I access the node, ubuntu user's ~/.ssh/authorized_keys is empty.
[14:19] <cheez0r> I'm trying to understand where that node's authorized_keys file gets populated- I'm using maas as the infrastructure.
[14:21] <m_3> cheez0r: not sure with maas
[14:22] <m_3> juju usually pulls your ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub
[14:22] <cheez0r> m_3: Do you know if juju bootstrap populates the key, or is that supposed to be done by the infrastructure?
[14:23] <m_3> cheez0r: lemme look
[14:26] <m_3> cheez0r: looks like it uses user-data for cloud-init
[14:26] <cheez0r> where is that populated?
[14:27] <m_3> /usr/share/pyshared/juju/providers/common/utils.py ( format_cloud_init )
[14:27] <m_3> also look at cloud_init.py in the same directory... shows how it adds authorized keys to user-data
[14:28] <jcastro> jamespage: have you talked to Mark Baker today yet?
[14:28] <m_3> cheez0r: I'm assuming maas provides preseed files for cloud-init... don't know though
[14:28] <jamespage> jcastro, yep - all set
[14:29] <m_3> cheez0r: note that "invalid ssh key" can be a sign of something else... make sure your juju versions match
[14:30] <cheez0r> m_3: it's a freshly built infrastructure using maas, I don't think they can not match using that system, but I dunno
[14:30] <cheez0r> It apt-get updates all of the systems out of the gate
[14:30] <m_3> i.e., everything is using precise?  you can find juju cli version with `dpkg -l | grep juju`
[14:31] <cheez0r> yes, everything's in precise.
[14:31] <m_3> environments.yaml has a 'juju-origin' entry
[14:31] <m_3> 'ppa' -vs- 'distro'
[14:31] <cheez0r> mine is set for default-series: precise
[14:31] <m_3> if juju-origin is not there, then it's defaulting to distro
[14:31] <m_3> what's your juju cli version?
[14:32] <cheez0r> 0.5+bzr531-0ubuntu1
[14:32] <m_3> perms on ~/.ssh/ ?
[14:32] <cheez0r> this is definitely an issue with ssh keys not being propagated.
[14:32] <cheez0r> keys are not on the target node.
[14:32] <cheez0r> they're all fine.
[14:32] <m_3> ok... hmmmm
[14:34] <cheez0r> so after I bootstrap, if I manually add the key to the node, juju status still doesn't work, and I get errors "failed while receiving a server response" "server refused to accept the client"
[14:35] <m_3> check out the provisioning agent log maybe?  probably /var/log/juju
[14:36] <m_3> also `ps awux | grep juju` on the bootstrap node
[14:36] <m_3> sorry, maas has been on my todo list... just lower on it than other stuff :)
[14:36] <cheez0r> no doubt'
[14:37] <m_3> is there a freenode maas channel?... lemme look
[14:37] <cheez0r> yeah, I'm on it
[14:38] <m_3> I'll dig and see if I can come up with anything... I think maas is not doing anything special with ssh keys (just from grepping around in juju/providers/maas)
[14:39] <lynxman> m_3: not afaict
[14:39] <m_3> I think it provides a preseed file for cloud-init to read... doesn't do a live metadata service like ec2's <IP_ADDRESS>
[14:39] <m_3> that preseed file should have authorized keys to inject in the new instances
[14:40] <m_3> cheez0r: maybe look for that preseed file somewhere on the new instance... might be able to read it to see if authorized_keys looks good
[14:41] <cheez0r> hrm, ok
[14:41] <cheez0r> let me play.
[14:41] <m_3> I'll see if I can spin up some maas nodes today in kvm slices
[14:42] <cheez0r> thanks bud- I'm hammering away at a 12 node cluster that I'm trying to get running maas + juju + openstack
[14:43] <cheez0r> in the default preseed file I see no way to configure ssh keys
[14:43] <lynxman> cheez0r: it should just create a user ubuntu with pass ubuntu
[14:43] <cheez0r> no, it should not.
[14:43] <cheez0r> it should pull my ssh public key and embed it into the bootstrapped node.
[14:44] <lynxman> cheez0r: from there on when you mark a system to be used in juju it adds an authorized_keys file with the juju ssh key in it
[14:44] <lynxman> cheez0r: I was still typing :)
[14:44] <cheez0r> maas default creates an ubuntu user with no password set and embeds an SSH key into the node.
[14:44] <cheez0r> so I'm thinking my problem is with maas.
[14:45] <lynxman> cheez0r: not according to my experience, good luck though :)
[14:46] <cheez0r> well, I'm working with the maas dev guys in #maas, feel free to join us and hash it out ;)
[14:47] <lynxman> cheez0r: good for you
[14:51] <cheez0r> lynxman: to validate, check the preseed file in /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts/ubuntu-server.preseed at the line 'd-i  passwd/user-password-crypted  password !'
[14:51] <cheez0r> if it's got a bang at the end of that line, it's not setting a password, if there's a crypt string there, it is.
[14:51] <lynxman> cheez0r: thanks
[14:52] <SpamapS> cheez0r: thats intentional
[14:52] <lynxman> cheez0r: I've been involved in the project from the beginning and somehow that change didn't come to my attention
[14:52] <SpamapS> cheez0r: you want SSH key auth. :)
[14:52]  * lynxman shrugs and keeps reviewing charms
[14:53] <cheez0r> SpamapS: I do indeed, which is what I'm troubleshooting now. ;) I was ensuring I knew what I thought I did, which isn't always the case.
[14:55] <m_3> SpamapS: morning.... what's the new little critter's name?
[14:55] <SpamapS> cheez0r: when you use juju, maas shoves your ssh key into cloud-init
[14:55] <SpamapS> m_3: Adrian
[14:55] <m_3> awesome... 'grats
[14:56] <cheez0r> SpamapS: it's supposed to, but it is not for some reason. I'm trying to debug that now.
[14:56] <lynxman> SpamapS: congrats! :)
[14:56] <SpamapS> cheez0r: you should see the results of that in the console on first boot
[14:57] <SpamapS> cheez0r: and you can always boot the box in recovery mode to look at /var/log/cloud-init-output.log
[14:57] <SpamapS> anyway.. back to baby stuff
[14:59] <cheez0r> thanks Spa
[14:59] <cheez0r> err, SpamapS
[15:02] <jcastro> SpamapS: man, MarkBaker and James Page's webinar is already better than ours. They have cool accents.
[15:02] <jcastro> http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/49171
[15:02] <jcastro> charm school! if you're interested in hanging out
[15:03] <jcastro> lynxman: hey so on your review for the juju charm, does that mean you're going to promulgate it?
[15:06] <m_3> I can promulgate it as long as it's reviewed
[15:06] <jcastro> yeah it's just not clear to me if he was finished or not
[15:08] <m_3> that's one that makes me wish a charm could be either standalone _or_ subordinate depending on how you wanna deploy it
[15:08] <lynxman> jcastro: I might ask for negronjl opinion as well
[15:08] <lynxman> jcastro: it looks brilliant to me
[15:08]  * jcastro nods
[15:12] <m_3> jcastro: I want a british accent
[15:12] <jcastro> heh
[15:13] <jcastro> m_3: hey don't forget puppetconf!
[15:13] <jcastro> also I think meesh needs your oscon travel info to book your stuff
[15:13] <m_3> yeah, it's in email
[15:13] <jcastro> <3
[15:13] <lynxman> m_3: I'm applying for puppetconf too :)
[15:17] <m_3> lynxman: cool
[15:23] <lynxman> m_3: it'll be fun :)
[15:24] <m_3> yup
[15:24] <m_3> need to figure out my submission
[15:44] <lynxman> m_3: we did a presentation last year with adam_g about juju+puppet masterless intregration
[15:45] <m_3> lynxman: well, and clint's charms now
[15:45] <lynxman> m_3: maybe some more practical presentation about that?
[15:45] <m_3> lynxman: we have a django / summit charm that's puppet masterless
[15:46] <lynxman> m_3: that'd be a cool one
[15:46] <m_3> lynxman: teyo made it clear that they wanna see us using std modules... not having to adapt them in any way
[15:49] <lynxman> m_3: yeah but that'd be for integrating juju tighter into puppet
[15:50] <lynxman> m_3: I reckon its still a valid demo, maybe with a twist?
[15:50] <m_3> yup
[15:50] <m_3> I'm thinking "puppet and juju... sitting in a tree"
[15:50] <lynxman> m_3: lol, yeah
[15:54] <m_3> lynxman: juppetto?
[15:54] <m_3> we've already got jujustrano underway
[15:54] <lynxman> m_3: even juju enterprise :D
[16:02] <jimbaker> m_3, i like the idea of standard modules. it would be a nice win if puppet actually works best when run with juju
[16:02] <m_3> jimbaker: yeah... it's interesting
[16:03] <m_3> jimbaker: so the django charm separates out an "install" manifest from a "database" manifest
[16:03] <m_3> jimbaker: that separation is critical to juju
[16:03] <m_3> jimbaker: but we'd have to see how to do that with the std puppet modules
[16:04] <m_3> jimbaker: perhaps there's a way we can selectively call parts of a manifest from each particular hook
[16:04] <m_3> dunno
[16:04] <m_3> jimbaker: the modules are a little more monolithic than we need... I think
[16:04] <m_3> gotta play with it
[16:05] <m_3> s/parts of a manifest/parts of a module/
[16:07] <jimbaker> m_3, it would seem feasible given the DSL aspect of puppet
[16:09] <m_3> yeah, just don't know how the modules are organized
[16:43] <jamespage> m_3, juppetto I like
[16:43] <jamespage> :-)
[16:53] <lynxman> juju charm review queue zero, wh00t! \o/
[16:53] <jcastro> you mean 5. :)
[16:53] <jcastro> oh, refresh lag
[16:53] <lynxman> jcastro: ;)
[16:55] <m_3> jamespage: that was awesome
[16:58] <m_3> lynxman: whoohoo!
[17:00] <jamespage> lynxman, nice one
[17:01] <jamespage> ta
[17:03] <marcoceppi> lynxman: I didn't think apt-add-repository prompted users if executed on server environments from a script
[17:09] <lynxman> marcoceppi: I reckon it does (found myself there) and I can't remember exactly if this was pre-precise or on precise itself so I just add -y to be safe
[17:09] <hazmat> marcoceppi, lynxman there's a -y flag for it
[17:09] <hazmat> that won't prompt
[17:09] <lynxman> hazmat: that's what I recommended to use
[17:09]  * hazmat nods
[17:09] <marcoceppi> hazmat: right, I've noticed that precise charms upgraded from oneiric work when adding ppa's without the -y flag though
[17:10] <marcoceppi> Atleast in my tests, but -y is better in the long run - if that ever changes
[17:12] <lynxman> marcoceppi: it's just to be safe, for certain
[17:12]  * marcoceppi nods
[17:13] <EerieMok> heya getting  a weirdissue
[17:13] <EerieMok> juju deploy glance
[17:14] <lynxman> alright reviewing queue done for today, now moving to the pub :)
[17:14]  * lynxman waves
[17:15] <EerieMok> says that the entry for glance cannot be found
[17:17] <EerieMok> yet I see it on jujucharms.com
[17:39] <jcastro> EerieMok: that is strange, I get that too
[17:42] <EerieMok> Sounds like the charmstore is having issues
[17:42] <jcastro> hazmat: ^ around?
[17:43] <SpamapS> jcastro: perhaps we should do some fake accents for our webinars?
[17:43] <SpamapS> jcastro: I'll be Austin Powers, you be Scarface
[17:43] <SpamapS> lynxman: Queue length: 0
[17:43] <SpamapS> lynxman: NICE
[17:44] <hazmat> me checks
[17:45] <hazmat> jcastro, EerieMok it might not be approved
[17:45] <EerieMok> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure#Ubuntu_Cloud_Live_Image
[17:45] <hazmat> charmstore publishing to the default namespace requires review
[17:46] <EerieMok> Then that tutorial is basically broken unless you do the optional step 2 xD
[17:46] <jcastro> http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/glance
[17:46] <SpamapS> hazmat: glance is definitely approved
[17:46] <jcastro> that looks like the default namespace to me
[17:46] <hazmat> SpamapS, but is it promulgated
[17:46] <SpamapS> approved, promulgated, same thing
[17:46] <SpamapS> lp:charms/glance points to it
[17:47] <hazmat> SpamapS, so its a bug in charmstore then
[17:47] <EerieMok> There are a few other charms that are broken too
[17:47] <EerieMok> (on the charmstore)
[17:48] <SpamapS> argh
[17:48] <SpamapS> points at 'precise'
[17:48] <SpamapS> instead of 'trunk
[17:48]  * SpamapS throws things
[17:49] <SpamapS> EerieMok: will fix shortly
[17:51] <SpamapS> hazmat: I think we need to get jujucharms.com and the charm store to use the same algorithm
[17:51] <SpamapS> and they *both* should expose their import logs
[17:53] <EerieMok> so was the charmstore pointing to something like precise/glance/precise ?
[17:54] <hazmat> SpamapS, fair enough.. i think two things, show a url
[17:55] <hazmat> SpamapS, er. show the store address for it, and show if its promulgated
[17:55] <hazmat> SpamapS, there still installable
[17:55] <hazmat> EerieMok, you can install with cs:~charmers/precise/glance
[17:55] <SpamapS> wow glance doesn't even come close to passing charm proof
[17:56] <EerieMok> I actually just grabbed the bzr and  have a local repo
[17:57] <jcastro> SpamapS: hey so I don't think: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/998241
[17:57] <_mup_> Bug #998241: New Charm: keystone <Juju Charms Collection:Incomplete by gandelman-a> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/998241 >
[17:57] <SpamapS> EerieMok: thats a better choice for production anyway
[17:57] <jcastro> IMO that should still be displayed in the queue
[17:57] <hazmat> SpamapS, ie show it its available in the default namespace it would show cs:precise/glance ... else cs:~charmers/precise/glance
[17:57] <jcastro> because we'd want to check on it on occassion right?
[17:58] <hazmat> actually i can add those to the review queue
[17:58] <SpamapS> jcastro: no, I don't think so. We only want things in the queue that require action now.
[17:59] <jcastro> ok so what happens in this case, adam says he fixed it
[17:59] <jcastro> but doesn't change the status.
[17:59] <jcastro> it slips through the cracks
[18:00] <hazmat> SpamapS, anything in the default namespace that isn't installable/in the store should be in the review queue, they need attention
[18:02] <jcastro> also found 2 with code and bugs, just not linked and not subscribed the charmers, so sorry to remove the 0. :D
[18:03] <jcastro> lynxman: nice job getting those done though!
[18:03] <lynxman> jcastro: haha no problem, will hammer those tomorrow :)
[18:03] <lynxman> jcastro: just send more my way, will be glad to get them done
[18:03] <jcastro> <3
[18:04] <jcastro> SpamapS: or perhaps be more explicit "Fix this and that, when you're ready for the next round flip it back to fix committed" or something
[18:04] <lynxman> jcastro: I've told everyone to mark it as "New" again
[18:04] <jcastro> that works
[18:05] <jcastro> negronjl: we'll need the graphs for "time to first response" and "average queue size" eventually as well
[18:06] <SpamapS> jcastro: in the server team we do keep track of Incomplete with response bugs ... its available as a bug search. But I don't think that should be in the queue.. perhaps a separate thing.. hm.. requires thought
[18:06] <jcastro> SpamapS: ok, we'll talk about it next call or something
[18:06] <SpamapS> adam_g: btw, I'm adding a copyright file to glance, since it doesn't have one.
[18:07]  * jcastro gets scared of losing contributions when people forget to flip the right switch in lp
[18:08] <SpamapS> negronjl: have you tried --ignore-warnings yet btw?
[18:08] <SpamapS> negronjl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1029058/
[18:09] <SpamapS> negronjl: thats options.ignore minus warnings
[18:09]  * SpamapS fixes in trunk
[18:14] <SpamapS> jcastro: fear isn't usually a great motivator toward excellence. :)
[18:14] <m_3> SpamapS: so what's the deal with glance?  the stale /precise branch screwing things up?
[18:15] <m_3> oneiric/glance/trunk and precise/glance/trunk both look good... and lp:charms/glance points to precise/glance/trunk
[18:16] <SpamapS> m_3: I fixed it
[18:16] <SpamapS> m_3: lp:charms/glance was not pointed at the trunk branch
[18:16] <SpamapS> We really need to fix that in the charm store code
[18:16] <m_3> ah... oops
[18:16] <SpamapS> charm store should ignore the branch name if it has an official pointer
[18:17] <m_3> yeah... and/or not screw it up when upgrading series
[18:17] <SpamapS> Though the 'trunk' branch had 7 extra commits that the 'precise' one didn't
[18:17] <m_3> right...
[18:17] <SpamapS> all fixed now
[18:17] <m_3> i think the precise branch was pre-existing
[18:17] <m_3> but we couldn't fix at the time b/c of stacking
[18:17] <m_3> iirc
[18:18] <SpamapS> lynxman: you need to push to ~charmers before promulgating btw
[18:18] <SpamapS> lynxman: you now own lp:charms/juju and lp:charms/drupal6
[18:18] <SpamapS> actually we need to make promulgate verify that
[18:19] <SpamapS> since 99% of the time we want ~charmers as the owner
[18:19] <m_3> there's also a nova-compute/precise branch lying around too
[18:20] <m_3> oh, nevermind... they're all still hanging about
[18:21] <SpamapS> hanging around is fine
[18:21] <SpamapS> being official is not ;)
[18:21] <m_3> right... really like to remove them though
[18:21] <SpamapS> its ok. I'm still quite certain that the charm store is useless without a way to fork the charm you've deployed.
[18:21] <m_3> yeah, it's good for demos... that's about it
[18:22] <SpamapS> neat trick and all, but not being able to fix the charm myself means our default deploy method is quite flawed.
[18:22] <SpamapS> ok filed bug 1010145
[18:22] <_mup_> Bug #1010145: promulgate makes it too easy to promulgate the wrong branch <Juju Charm Tools:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010145 >
[18:23] <SpamapS> Like Damian from Clerks, I'm not supposed to be here today.. so.. if somebody else wants to tackle that.. that would be great. :)
[18:24] <m_3> yeah, I'll take a look
[18:28] <negronjl> jcastro, SpamapS:  i am at the M$ azure event all day today
[18:28] <jcastro> oh didn't know you were there
[18:28] <jcastro> they excited about ubuntu over there?
[18:29] <negronjl> jcastro:  i am still working on the charts.  Sorry for the delay.  I've been swamped
[18:30] <negronjl> SpanapS:  not sure what you are talking about re: ignore warnings
[18:31] <shazzner> is anyone going to be at the Texas Linux Fest in Aug?
[18:31] <shazzner> they're finally holding one in san antonio :)
[18:35] <adam_g> SpamapS: thanks
[20:05] <cheez0r> hey folks, I'm working with a maas environment in juju, I bootstrapped the environment successfully, I deployed a bunch of charms and added relationships, but all of the agent-states in the juju status remain in 'not-started' for the nodes and 'pending' for the charms.
[20:05] <cheez0r> Any thoughts?
[21:40] <hazmat> cheez0r, i'd suspect cloud-init is not running on them
[21:40] <hazmat> cheez0r, same problem as you had with the bootstrap node
[21:41] <hazmat> cheez0r, if you could pastebin the /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt from some of them that would help confirm
[23:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, ping


[07:34] <dpm> good morning all
[07:34] <happyaron> morning dpm, :)
[07:34] <dpm> good afternoon happyaron :)
[07:39] <andrejz> good morning dpm, afternoon happyaron :)
[07:40] <dpm> hey andrejz ;)
[07:41] <happyaron> andrejz: :)
[07:42] <andrejz> got some good news. number of visits on slovenian ubuntu mirror has increased by 40% in May 2011 compared to May 2010 :)
[10:27] <TLE> dpm: hey
[10:28] <TLE> dpm: I have been looking a little around the wiki, where was it that you wanted us to document the tasks under sustainable translations?
[10:28] <TLE> put the under Actions here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators ?
[10:28] <TLE> or is there some dedicated space?
[11:08] <RawChid> Hello
[11:08] <dpm> TLE, sorry for the delay, I haven't done it yet, let me see if I manage today.
[11:11] <dpm> hey RawChid :)
[11:12] <RawChid> Hola dpm, do you have time to discuss my code?
[11:13] <dpm> RawChid, sure. Could you give me the link to your branch again?
[11:14] <TLE> dpm: no problem, the only reason I ask is that I keep asking myself (and then eventually you) the same questions, might make sense to start documenting
[11:15] <RawChid> dpm: https://code.launchpad.net/~rachidbm/ubuntu-l10n-tools/pot-priority
[11:17] <RawChid> We discussed to have a central place for the list of RELEASE_NAMES, now I'v put it in ul10n_toolsconfig, I doubt that's a good place, but didn't know a better one...
[11:18] <RawChid> I couldn't find how to get a list of names from Launchpad. Second, if retrieved from launchpad, this will slow down the script unnecessary IMHO
[11:19] <dpm> TLE, if you've got any question in mind already, feel free to post it here and it will be saved in the log. I'll then make sure it gets documented
[11:23] <dpm> RawChid, I think it might still be better to get the releases from LP, as the script won't be slowed down too much (we're already connecting to Launchpad even if we're not fetching the release names). If you want to postpone that for now, it's fine, but I'd like to ask you to change one thing: right now whenever a new release is opened we'll need to change the code (whereas reading from the LP API would spare us that step). While this is ok'ish fo
[11:23] <dpm> r now, the code should probably only be changed in one place. Now it needs to be changed in two places (adding a new release to the list, and setting the default release)
[11:25] <RawChid> Hm, okay. And what is the default release at the moment?
[11:26] <dpm> I meant the default release you set on the script (I think you set it to natty).
[11:27] <RawChid> Yes, that is what I've done. But I want to know which YOU want/need to be default
[11:27] <RawChid> So Natty is good?
[11:28] <dpm> RawChid, I think one really nice thing would be to detect the release the user is running, and make that the default
[11:28] <dpm> RawChid, I think you should be able to get the Ubuntu release names with the series_collection property from https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#distribution
[11:28] <RawChid> I've investigated that part of the API, but didn't come far.
[11:29] <RawChid> Oke, default is the one that is on users system, sounds good to me
[11:32] <RawChid> So it would be an idea to make a function in launchpadmanager.py get_distro_codenames() ?
[11:34] <dpm> RawChid, here's how you can do it:
[11:34] <dpm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/622465/
[11:34] <RawChid> OMG, it could be so simple
[11:35] <RawChid> I was think way to difficult :S
[11:35] <RawChid> thinking*
[11:37] <dpm> yeah, the LP API is very nice when it provides the thing you need. If what you need is not exposed in the API, then you're generally screwed :)
[11:37] <dpm> RawChid, and here's how you can detect the distro the user is running:
[11:37] <dpm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/622466/
[11:38] <RawChid> Great, I'll change that. And will take over your implementation of the CSV reader
[11:40] <RawChid> Do you agree with  function in launchpadmanager.py get_distro_codenames() ?
[11:41] <dpm> RawChid, yeah, I think it's exactly the place where it should be
[11:43] <dpm> when you're implementing that function, you might want to discard all the '*-series' series from the list it returns, since these are only series that have been registered, but not yet open (i.e. there are no translation templates we can modify there)
[11:45] <RawChid> Ack
[11:46] <RawChid> And things as warty and hoary are still interesting? :P
[11:49] <dpm> wait, there's probably a property that tells if a series is active or not, let me read the documentation
[11:50] <dpm> RawChid, yeah, there is an 'active' property on https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#distro_series, so you should only return those series where series.active == True
[11:52] <RawChid> Oke, great
[12:14] <RawChid> Hm, this is more a Python question. I can loop al the series, and add each (active == True) to a list. But I guess there is a more clever way to do this in Python
[12:16] <RawChid> dpm, if you know more reading material on this stuff :)
[12:19] <dpm> RawChid, that's also how I'd do it (initialize an empty list, iterate over series, append the active series names to a list), I don't know if there is a cleverer way, you might want to ask on #python
[12:20] <RawChid> ack
[12:21] <TLE> if you are talking about reducing a list based on a parameter in the elements in the list, you can do that with a list comrephension with an if in
[12:22] <TLE> ?
[12:23] <RawChid> Yes, I think something like that
[12:23] <TLE> >>> h=['active','active','inactive','active']
[12:23] <TLE> >>> g=[a for a in h if a=='active']
[12:23] <TLE> >>> g
[12:23] <TLE> ['active', 'active', 'active']
[12:24] <TLE> I even _think_ that is the "Pythonic" way of doing it ;)
[12:25] <RawChid> I agree, but I need to do some more reading to invent such a solution by myself :P. Thanks TLE!
[12:26] <TLE> np, well, plenty of good reading around
[12:27] <RawChid> I'm open for suggestions ;)
[12:27] <TLE> I just finished Dive into python, that's nice, but also book length
[12:27] <RawChid> Okay
[12:28] <TLE> If you are looking for something shorter, I sure there are some nice tutorials around, but I don't know any of the top of my head
[12:28] <dpm> yeah, dive into python is really nice and well written. I haven't read it all myself, rather some chapters for reference when I needed to find out about something in particular
[12:29] <TLE> But actually I can really recommend Dive into Python, because you just "dive in" right away, and he really docusses on teahcing you the elegant way of doing stuff
[12:29] <TLE> http://diveintopython3.org/
[12:30] <TLE> if you want to do python 3 else http://diveintopython.org/
[12:30] <RawChid> Hehe, already downloaded :)
[12:31] <TLE> The only real bummer is that I bought a dead tree version, because I wanted to support the Author and all, and I ended up with one (part of a bunch of book printed that way) with a printing error in
[12:31] <TLE> so there was no horizontal lines in all the code examples
[12:31] <TLE> do you have any idea how difficult it is to read code without - and _ ;)
[12:32] <TLE> But that is the fault of the printing company not the author
[12:32] <TLE> in any case if you get the same idea as me about supporting the Author I would recommend just using the online version and sending him a donation ,)
[12:34] <RawChid> :-)
[12:35] <dpm> RawChid, here are the two approaches: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/622503/
[13:05] <RawChid> Hm, now I know why I wanted to prevent getting them from launchpad. I printed the optional series in help. Should I just remove the series from help text?
[13:17] <TLE> dpm: hey
[13:18] <TLE> about the Maverick language packs, did you say that the last ones that were build were diffs, so that we could not use those for testing, or was it merely that they could not be used for the FF update stuff
[13:20] <dpm> TLE, sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant the second: i.e. they could be used for testing, but not this particular time due to the FF changes
[13:20] <dpm> for the FF changes we need a full export
[13:23] <TLE> yes ok, so we wait for response on the email you just wrote, about whether ff5 i actually comming to maverick, and if not, we are good to go, otherwise we wait, right?
[13:30] <TLE> dpm: ^^
[13:31] <dpm> TLE, sorry, I was away for some minutes. Ack on your last sentence
[14:33] <RawChid> dpm! Don't know if you saw my MP already, but I forgot something, so I do a resubmit right now
[14:37] <dpm> RawChid, sure, no worries
[14:40] <dpm> RawChid, have you actually tested it before submitting it? I see a couple of things that probably stop it from it working properly:
[14:40] <dpm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/622582/
[14:42] <RawChid> Yes I tested it. I didn't knew the "header check" isn't necessary anymore
[14:43] <RawChid> NO offense, do you test your code before submitting? Because you're CSV reader only save the last entry ;)
[14:43] <RawChid> forgot an ident ;)
[14:44] <RawChid> I'll remove that header thing
[14:47] <RawChid> Hm, it contains more errors, I did the resubmit a bit hasty :'(
[15:01] <dpm> RawChid, good point ;) I didn't test my last commit, no, I just tested the DictReader stuff in a console and just made a checkpoint commit to have the csv stuff in - I now realize that the missing indentation makes it only save the last template. But on the other hand, whenever I submit a merge proposal to someone else's branch I do always test it, so that the reviewer doesn't have to play catch with bugs introduced by the branch. I'm not complain
[15:01] <dpm> ing, though, you say you did test it, so it's fine :-)
[15:11] <TLE> dpm: jost wrote to the list about a small post ponement, so now we can just start the cycles when the packs are ready
[15:14] <dpm> TLE, which list?
[15:15] <TLE> ubuntu-translators
[15:16] <TLE> just to let people know why we haven't announced testing starts, when it's on the schedule
[15:16] <dpm> ah, I don't seem to have received the message, let me refresh again...
[15:17] <serfus> i did :)
[15:17] <dpm> ok, it was just my Evolution being slow :)
[15:17] <dpm> TLE, read the message, ack and thanks ;)
[15:19] <TLE> no need to thank me for that, that is the task I agreed to ;)
[15:19] <serfus> something is funky with synaptic, but i have to leave now.... i will probebly nag you guys with this later
[15:20] <TLE> just entered the 10's: Made a twitter account, found a few feeds to follow and hooked it into gwibber, I feel so connected
[15:24] <dpm> hehe
[15:25] <dpm> anyway, I need to go earlier today, so I hope everyone has a nice rest of the day
[15:25] <TLE> you too
[15:25] <dpm> RawChid, if you've got more changes, do submit them, but I might not be able to look at them until tomorrow. Keep up the good work!
[15:34] <RawChid> No problem, thanks in advance. I'm not going to work on this for the next days


[06:06] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:23] <ricotz> hello oSoMoN
[06:31] <didrocks> good morning
[06:35] <oSoMoN> hello ricotz, salut didrocks
[06:36] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[06:48] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN, ricotz, didrocks
[06:53] <ricotz> hello didrocks duflu
[06:56] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:09] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:09] <didrocks> and ricotz
[07:11] <lissyx> oSoMoN, so did you saw the good news?
[07:12] <lissyx> oSoMoN, https://treeherder.mozilla.org/jobs?repo=try&revision=7d2f2f582f98605a3c3b18cfffcd69b1481f567c
[07:46] <seb128> goood morning desktopers!
[07:47] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:50] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? bon weekend?
[08:07] <duflu> Hi seb128
[08:08] <duflu> How goes?
[08:27] <oSoMoN> seb128, très bon, et toi?
[08:36] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:38] <seb128> duflu, hey, I'm doing fine! you?
[08:39] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, didrocks
[08:45] <GunnarHj> Hello desktopers!
[08:45] <GunnarHj> I made an interesting observation as regards c++ symbols files.
[08:45] <GunnarHj>   LTO on ubuntu
[08:45] <GunnarHj> + not LTO on Debian
[08:45] <GunnarHj> + c++
[08:45] <GunnarHj> = cumbersome combo wrt symbols
[08:45] <GunnarHj> But turning on LTO on Debian makes a huge difference, and a package whose symbols I previously had to redo on Ubuntu was successfully synced:
[08:45] <GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencc/1.1.4+ds1-3
[08:46] <duflu> seb128, sometimes everything goes wrong at the same time :P But at least I don't have covid, unlike many other people right now
[09:05] <seb128> duflu, :-(
[09:09] <duflu> seb128, shall I try to get 5.65 into kinetic?
[09:09] <duflu> BlueZ 5.65
[09:15] <duflu> Good news on that front: My desktop is no longer a Faraday cage with the antennae trapped inside
[10:03] <lissyx> https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/blob/main/extensions/desktop/command-chain/desktop-launch#L3
[10:03] <lissyx> where is this file from ?
[10:03] <lissyx> I can't find this desktop-launch in https://github.com/ubuntu/gnome-sdk
[10:16] <oSoMoN> lissyx, from https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft-desktop-integration I think
[11:45] <lissyx> seb128, oSoMoN, who should review https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft-desktop-integration/pull/3 ?
[12:17] <lissyx> kenvandine, thanks for merging, I guess it will be picked next time a build is done ?
[14:02] <KGB-0> glib tags 1ee0ad0 Simon McVittie upstream/2.73.2+git20220725 * Upstream version 2.73.2+git20220725 * https://deb.li/3FcKi
[18:04] <kenvandine> lissyx: yeah, when gnome-42-2204 is rebuilt
[22:02] <KGB-0> system-config-printer ubuntu/master bf01168 Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/changelog * Upload 1.5.16-0ubuntu4 to kinetic * https://deb.li/I2RE