[23:00] <toddy> o/
[23:03] <teward> *grumble*
[23:03] <toddy> hi teward
[23:04] <toddy> Everyone here?
[23:04] <linaporras> Hi teward and toddy :)
[23:04] <jose> here
[23:04] <jose> that makes quorum
[23:04] <linaporras> Hi jose
[23:04] <toddy> hi linaporras
[23:05] <jose> let's get started
[23:05] <toddy> ok
[23:05] <toddy> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Council Meeting
[23:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 23:05:29 UTC.  The chair is toddy.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[23:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[23:05] <toddy> #chair linaporras teward jose toddy
[23:06] <meetingology> Current chairs: jose, linaporras, teward, toddy
[23:06] <toddy> Welcome everyone to the Ubuntu Community Council Meeting!
[23:06] <toddy> We have an agenda for this meeting.
[23:06] <toddy> #link https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20210203/
[23:07] <toddy> If you have another topics please add them to the agenda.
[23:07] <toddy> #topic Old business
[23:07] <toddy> #subtopic Local Communities Research Committee
[23:08] <toddy> #info The call for nominations of the LCRC will close Saturday, February 6, 2021 23:59 UTC.
[23:08] <jose> I believe we're missing Africa and Oceania?
[23:08] <toddy> that is this Saturday!
[23:08] <toddy> jose: yes that is true
[23:08] <toddy> the other 4 regions have nominations
[23:08] <jose> do we have anyone we could reach out for suggestions on nominations for those regions?
[23:10] <toddy> hmm, not so much ideas :(
[23:10] <jose> I don't know of a lot of people in those regions
[23:11] <jose> I could put out some social media posts asking for people in those two regions
[23:11] <linaporras> Me neither...
[23:11] <linaporras> Yes jose, that's a good idea...
[23:11] <linaporras> And maybe at the discourse  item, remark that?
[23:12] <toddy> we can update the post at the community hub
[23:12] <toddy> about that fact
[23:12] <linaporras> I agree with that!
[23:12] <toddy> and social media too
[23:12] <jose> sounds good
[23:12] <jose> I'm drafting something in social media now
[23:13] <toddy> #action jose write a post for the LCRC in social media
[23:13] <meetingology> ACTION: jose write a post for the LCRC in social media
[23:13] <jose> #link https://twitter.com/JoseeAntonioR/status/1357104913050918912
[23:14] <jose> I'll see if I can post something in linkedin but I just want to make sure it doesn't sound like a job offer
[23:14] <toddy> retweet :)
[23:15] <toddy> #action toddy write an update in the community hib about the LCRC missing regions
[23:15] <meetingology> ACTION: toddy write an update in the community hib about the LCRC missing regions
[23:15] <toddy> linkedin always sounds like job offer for me
[23:16] <jose> yeah I will make sure it's VERY explicit on that it's not one
[23:16] <toddy> ok
[23:16] <wxl> (p.s. i'm here)
[23:16] <toddy> #chair wxl
[23:16] <linaporras> jajaja I agree with u jose, clarify is not a job offer!
[23:16] <meetingology> Current chairs: jose, linaporras, teward, toddy, wxl
[23:16] <linaporras> hi wxl
[23:16] <wxl> hi lina!
[23:17] <toddy> #action jose write at linkedin about the LCRC missing regions
[23:17] <meetingology> ACTION: jose write at linkedin about the LCRC missing regions
[23:18] <toddy> ok, than we will see if we get some people from this regions
[23:18] <toddy> We have planned that we make the voting after Saturday.
[23:19] <jose> Otherwise, we're going to have to make a separate call for those regions, but I'm hopeful we'll find someone
[23:20] <toddy> ok, anything else about this topic?
[23:20] <jose> I just want to say, we've gotten some promising candidates :)
[23:20] <linaporras> I agree with jose... but in order to not delay the work of the research comitee, maybe we can agree to vote for the people of regions that have nominees, what do you think?
[23:21] <linaporras> and launch the separate call... after.. just in case we don't find people on those regions
[23:21] <jose> I'd be willing to make that compromise. Get started with what we have, and add people later on if needed.
[23:22] <toddy> yes, that sounds good.
[23:22] <jose> #link https://www.linkedin.com/posts/joseantonio-rey_local-communities-research-committee-activity-6762872891257180160-bPh5
[23:22] <toddy> So we have a vote after Saturday
[23:23] <jose> agreed
[23:23] <toddy> fine
[23:23] <toddy> #subtopic IRC Council and the current status of memberships
[23:23] <jose> hmm, nhaines is not here to report
[23:23] <teward> i'd say we can move getting the status update on that to the ML
[23:24] <jose> I just poked him elsewhere
[23:24] <teward> and just poke the heck out of nhaines
[23:24] <teward> (not everything needs to be in the meeting esp. if they aren't here)
[23:24] <toddy> agreed
[23:24] <linaporras43> Hi again, I have a tech problem.
[23:24] <jose> wb
[23:24] <jose> and sounds good
[23:24] <toddy> #topic News business
[23:25] <teward> there's one thing the past 2 weeks that landed on my plate
[23:25] <teward> TB wanted their ML 'about' changed, and that was done.
[23:25] <teward> and I also poked IRCC about the confusion RE: the two cloaks that exist on IRC.
[23:25] <teward> asked them to rediscuss and come back with their thoughts
[23:26] <toddy> teward: ok
[23:26] <teward> so that's two things.
[23:26] <teward> (i need to grab another water, back in like 30 seconds)
[23:26] <toddy> Should we talk about the Google Summer of Code?
[23:27] <jose> we can, for a little bit
[23:27] <toddy> #info Deadline for the registration of organisations for the Google Summer of Code is February 19, 2021.
[23:27] <toddy> #link https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/
[23:27] <toddy> we have talk about it at the mailing list
[23:28] <jose> I personally don't think that we're at the point where we can support this since it requires direct mentorship. But we can aim to get ready to participate next year. What do you say?
[23:28] <wxl> i think google code-in is a really good project for us
[23:28] <wxl> google summer of code is better for upstreams
[23:29] <wxl> or those rare cases we have our own thing going on (snaps/snapcraft, multipass, whatever this new installer is, etc.)
[23:29] <teward> though the new stuff and etc. probably needs a Canonical eye on it
[23:29] <wxl> that's kind of what i was rthinking, too
[23:29] <teward> because IIRC the 'new installer' is being Canonical driven
[23:29] <teward> so the CC isn't the proper place for *that* discussion
[23:29] <wxl> nopers
[23:30] <toddy> should we talk about that with canonical?
[23:30] <jose> I'm working on something that will probably help with that relationship
[23:30] <jose> give me a few weeks
[23:30] <wxl> alternately we can work with upstreams
[23:30] <teward> jose: don't have time for GSoC
[23:30] <wxl> maybe after we find out who is accepted, we see if we can't organize some help for them
[23:31] <teward> making a point :P
[23:31] <jose> no no I meant the relationship, not gsoc
[23:31] <teward> ah
[23:31] <teward> err:nocontext
[23:31] <teward> :P
[23:31] <teward> *yawns*
[23:31] <toddy> :D
[23:33] <wxl> are we done with that topic?
[23:33] <toddy> I think so.
[23:33] <wxl> i have another thing i'd like to bring up
[23:33] <toddy> sorry, was a minute away
[23:34] <toddy> ok, wxl
[23:34] <wxl> i brought this up on irc but i really think we should do some sort of memorial or something in memory of infinity
[23:34] <jose> go ahead
[23:34] <wxl> ok XD
[23:34] <wxl> anyone care what or how or anything?
[23:35] <jose> maybe an annal?
[23:35] <jose> we have action items in launchpad so we can get them from there
[23:36] <wxl> ok that will do then
[23:36] <wxl> i don't think i have anything else
[23:36] <toddy> any other things?
[23:37] <toddy> #topic Any other business
[23:37] <teward> not really a CC *task* but for awareness: I did prod the TB about the recent... shall I call it "concerning chaos"... regarding the 5.8.x kernel regressions across the boards
[23:37] <teward> they pretty quickly got a post-mortem out via Discord and wxl and the Lubuntu Team also have a bulletpoint summary as well on their Discourse
[23:37] <teward> (i felt it was necessary to prod the TB and get something from SOMEONE about what 'went wrong')
[23:37] <teward> but that's just a "i did this" bullet point :)
[23:38] <jose> nice one!
[23:38] <teward> felt the Community at large needed to know :P
[23:38] <wxl> yeah great work on that teward. that was much needed
[23:38] <toddy> sounds great. :)
[23:38] <linaporras43> +1
[23:38] <teward> while we delegate the tech stuff to TB, as a community member myself seeing Ask Ubuntu have **tons** of "My hardware was working then update BOOM" stuff, i wanted to get stuff rolling ;)
[23:38] <teward> at least they're on top of things now and working to fix the regressions :P

[23:39] <wxl> it may be true that those regressions are fixed
[23:39] <teward> i'm seeing less and less complaints, my guess is they've been trying to fix any major regressions before the .2 release, which Makes Sense
[23:39] <teward> but i'm glad the Release Team came back with a postmortem about what happened
[23:40] <wxl> i asked a few questions there and they seem to be responding so that's all good
[23:40] <wxl> and the actual problem was far more complicated that it had originally seemed
[23:40] <wxl> anywho
[23:41] <toddy> any other things/topics?
[23:41] <wxl> one other thing about the TB: the mailing list got a bunch of bounces from members
[23:41] <teward> yep.  BUT I wanted to make it known that, while I didn't go to the TB with the CC hat on to open that 'can of worms' that needed cleaned and discussed, I did express that "On behalf of the "Community AT Large"..." which sort of implies CC.
[23:41] <wxl> from what i can tell the ML removed them
[23:41] <teward> wxl: yeah, want me to check with IS on them?
[23:41] <teward> possible OldAccounts went away
[23:41] <wxl> i'm not sure we should be concerned or not
[23:41] <teward> wxl: to be fair I see bounce notifications all the time
[23:42] <wxl> yeah this seemed odd to me but that may be just me
[23:42] <teward> wxl: i don't think we need to be worried - that's from all subscribers to the TB list
[23:42] <teward> not the TB members themselves
[23:42] <wxl> there were several canonical names in there so i don't know
[23:42] <teward> (and yes the TB list DOES have a lot of subs)
[23:42] <teward> wxl: I'll reach out to IS and see if they can confirm accounts are bouncing because removals, etc.
[23:42] <wxl> i only saw the messages the one time
[23:42] <teward> other item of interest: discuss with linaporras about IRC boucners, it'll solve their timing out and exploding problems.
[23:42] <wxl> so they appeared to be fatal
[23:42] <teward> wxl: you only get once - when it says it halts delivery permanently.
[23:43] <wxl> or just use matrix!
[23:43] <teward> if we see messages agan I'll poke IS
[23:43] <wxl> that's the one
[23:43] <jose> thanks, no thanks
[23:43] <toddy> thanks, teward
[23:44] <toddy> anything else?
[23:44] <wxl> nothing from me
[23:44] <jose> I'm all good for now
[23:45] <toddy> #info The next meeting is Wednesday, February 17, 2021 23:00 UTC
[23:45] <toddy> Next chair is wxl?
[23:45] <wxl> sure i'll take it i guess
[23:45] <toddy> #action Next chair is wxl.
[23:45] <meetingology> ACTION: Next chair is wxl.
[23:45] <linaporras> I want yo chair The first meeting of march
[23:46] <wxl> does that mean i have to do the meeting notes for this one? i forgot
[23:46] <toddy> ok, linaporras
[23:46] <toddy> wxl: for this meeting here? no, that is my task I think
[23:46] <wxl> ok great
[23:46] <jose> I think you need to build the agenda for the next one and then minutes of that one too
[23:47] <wxl> right ok that's what i thought
[23:47] <toddy> ok, alright
[23:47] <toddy> than this is the end
[23:48] <toddy> #endmeeting
[23:48] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 23:48:03 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-02-03-23.05.moin.txt


 janimo: apps ship a .desktop to /usr/share/applications, that .desktop has a MimeType=... list with the mimetypes supported by the app
 then you can set a default with /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[11:53] <janimo> please don't copy paste that I read it already
[11:54] <seb128> "<janimo> if gnoome panel want to use nautilu" ... that's not true
[11:54] <nomed> does the OnlyShowIn work just for the menu?
[11:54] <seb128> panel only calls the default mimetype for "x-directory/normal"
[11:54] <janimo> seb128: ok besides nautilus who would be an x-d-g handler?
[11:54] <seb128> which would work fine if you didn't override the mechanism by playing with "x-directory/gnome-default-handler"
[11:55] <seb128> x-directory/normal=Thunar-folder-handler.desktop;nautilus-folder-handler.desktop;
[11:55] <seb128> to /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache on my box
[11:56] <seb128> konqueror probably too but I don't have it installed
[11:56] <janimo> x/g-d-h I mean
[11:56] <janimo> seb128: is x-directory (w/o) gnome) enough to make thunar work as a FM called by apps?
[11:56] <seb128> it should
[11:56] <seb128> it is for most of apps
[11:57] <seb128> if firefox uses "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" it would be bugged
[11:57] <seb128> I've not checked for that
[11:57] <seb128> but I'm not sure on how it could
[11:57] <seb128> "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not a mimetype (in the sense it's not known by /usr/share/mime)
[11:59] <seb128> janimo: that comments to the upstream bug makes me think the guy doesn't know how to mimesystem is working
[12:00] <janimo> so does gnome-default-handler override the 'normal' if declared?
[12:00] <seb128> janimo: directory is no a special case, that's just a mimetype
[12:01] <seb128> janimo: looks like, since thunar is always opened to open an "x-directory/normal" whatever the default for it is set
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-386/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-k7/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-22-386/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> tmpfs                1013M   19M  995M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.15-22-k7/volatile
[12:03] <Lathiat> volatile recreated on kernel postinst?
[12:03] <Lathiat> i probably havent rebooted for a couple updates
[12:04] <seb128> janimo: looking to gnome-vfs code they use "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" as a trick to be sure there is a directory handler even if the mimeinfo cache lists none
[12:05] <seb128> janimo: i.e: if they find no x-directory/normal handler they set x-directory/gnome-default-handler
[12:14] <janimo> seb128: ok but why does it not use nautilus directly ?
[12:14] <janimo> what I don;t get is, that since it is aclled via an indirection it was meant to be overridable no?
[12:14] <janimo> s/aclled/called/
[12:15] <seb128> janimo: as said the panel used the preferred app associated to "x-directory/normal"
[12:15] <seb128> janimo: you could be wanting to set Thunar as the default under GNOME
[12:15] <infinity> Lathiat: yes, postinst has to mount volatile and compile all the modules once, so you get a properly-updated modules.dep
[12:16] <seb128> janimo: that's just that playing with "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" breaks the mechanism
[12:16] <janimo> seb128: I would appreciate if you commented on what thunar upstream said (in LP since I assuem you don't have an xfce bugzilla account)
[12:16] <Lathiat> infinity: cant unmount the old one?
[12:17] <infinity> Lathiat: Err, what?  Why would it do that?
[12:17] <janimo> seb128: since I get contradictory opionions from you and thunar upstream I'd really prefer if you could agree on where the bug actually is
[12:17] <infinity> Lathiat: It's not going to randomly umount filesystems just cause it believes you may not want it anymore.  Reboot if it bugs you.
[12:17] <infinity> Lathiat: Which you should be doing after kernel updates ANYWAY.
[12:17] <janimo> and making sure it does not break firefox or other apps
[12:18] <Lathiat> oh hrm i thought it had doubled-mounted i see there was one of each revision/version
[12:18] <janimo> seb128: I linked the uptream bug in LP
[12:18] <infinity> Lathiat: Yeah.  It won't mount it twice.  It checks for that.
[12:19] <Lathiat> altho, leaving the voltaile mounted for a non-running kernel ?
[12:19] <janimo> and I'll point upstream to LP back to your response
[12:19] <janimo> infinity: saw my question about an hour ago regarding the xubuntu desktop CD installing gnome-session?
[12:20] <infinity> Lathiat: Normally, this wouldn't be a problem.  You're the one who's upgrade *4* kernels without rebooting. :)
[12:20] <infinity> Lathiat: s/upgrade/upgraded/
[12:20] <seb128> janimo: I already exprimed myself on the launchpad bug, what else do you want me to say?
[12:20] <Lathiat> infinity: i just went through 1 update, im running -22 -23 is newest, and i just happen to have both -386 and -k7 installed :)
[12:20] <ajmitch> Lathiat: don't worry, you're not the only one :)
[12:21] <Lathiat> :)
[12:21] <infinity> Lathiat: 2 updates.  You upgraded from -22.33 to -22.34 *and* installed -23.xx
[12:21] <infinity> Lathiat: Otherwise, you wouldn't have both 22-386 and 22-k7 mounted.
[12:22] <Lathiat> uh
[12:22] <Lathiat> how do you figure that
[12:22] <infinity> Lathiat: Anyhow.  Other than wasting a little bit of RAM on a tmpfs you're not using, there's no real harm.  And since we expect people to reboot somewhere after that postinst runs, I'd prefer to keep the moving parts count low.
[12:23] <Lathiat> 22.34 came out  7 may and i only have a 6 day uptime so i definiately only went from -22 to -23
[12:23] <Lathiat> but anyway :)P
[12:23] <infinity> Lathiat: Youre booted into -22-k7 right now, right?  And you have -22-k7, -22-386, -23-k7, and -23-386 installed.  On boot, -22-k7/volatile was mounted.  When you upgraded from -22.33 to -22.34, -22-386/volatile was mounted.  lather, rince, repeat for -23-{k7,386}/volatile
[12:24] <Lathiat> ah, i see the logic there
[12:24] <infinity> Lathiat: When -22.34 came out makes no difference.  When you upgraded does. :)
[12:24] <infinity> -22.34 only left the archive a short while ago.
[12:25] <infinity> Anyhow, non-bug, IMO.  Trying to guess what filesystems to unmount to save a tiny bit of RAM is not sane, given that we expect you to reboot anyway.
[12:28] <janimo> seb128: so if thunar did not set gnome-defa-handler it nautilus/thunar could be chosen as preferred fm in gnome and either be used for places//firefox etc consistently?
[12:28] <janimo> all across gnome mean?
[12:28] <janimo> that would indeed solve the original reportes problem
[12:28] <janimo> but if some apps rely on gnome-default-handler instead of directory-default it does not solve it
[12:29] <seb128> why would some app do that?
[12:29] <seb128> gnome-default-handler is not a mimetype
[12:29] <seb128> i.e: not listed by /usr/share/mime
[12:29] <janimo> seb128: what does this all have to do with mimetype or not?
[12:30] <janimo> the question is 'is it settable'?
[12:30] <janimo> you already said 3 times it's not a mimetype and I got it
[12:30] <seb128> the opening association is how I described before
[12:30] <seb128> you open a mimetype
[12:30] <seb128> and the list of handles and make from the .desktops you have installed
[12:31] <seb128> and the default from the system default or an user default you set
[12:31] <infinity> janimo:             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base xterm xubuntu-desktop"
[12:31] <infinity> janimo: That's how it's been since you first reported the issue to me.
[12:31] <janimo> if it is settable it means it can be something else than nautilus
[12:31] <janimo> if it's not settable what is it there for?
[12:31] <janimo> can you please comment in LP and point out to thunar upstream why he's wrong?
[12:31] <seb128> janimo: I don't get your issue. Opening a directory is opening an "x-directory/normal" mimetype and works according to the mechanism I explained 3 times already and you understood
[12:32] <janimo> seb128: infinity, ok, there's a lag here I just got two full pages after no activity
[12:32] <janimo> I'll have to reread and see I may have asked soem questions that were already replied to
[12:33] <janimo> infinity: weird then.thanks
[12:34] <nomed> janimo, did u add any new pkge on the seeds ?
[12:34] <nomed> xubuntu-system-tools ex ..
[12:34] <janimo> seb128: re LP. Since upstream read the bug comments in LP and replied I'd assume you should reply to what he said specifically not what I said earlier
[12:34] <janimo> he cam with other arguments
[12:35] <janimo> nomed: I added ubuntu-artwork most recently
[12:35] <janimo> seb128: and I did not really have arguments in LP, just a few questions and uncertainties, that's why I forwarded it upstrea
[12:37] <janimo> seb128: since you said upstream author does not know how the mime system works, you may want to set him straight
[12:37] <janimo> I'd rather he fixes the bug upstream too not just have it in ubuntu
[12:37] <nomed> janimo, no it's not ubuntu-artwork ...
[12:37] <nomed> and it's not xubuntu-system-tools ..
[12:38] <janimo> nomed: is it not gnome-session? do you have liveCD booted?
[12:39] <nomed> janimo, no ..
[12:39] <nomed> i'm just checking deps ..
[12:40] <nomed> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/rc/xubuntu-6.06-rc-desktop-i386.manifest
[12:40] <seb128> janimo: commented on the bug
[12:40] <janimo> seb128: thanks
[12:40] <seb128> np
[12:41] <nomed> janimo, i do not see gnome-session there
[12:42] <janimo> seb128: a moment
[12:42] <nomed> janimo, and i do not see even on "current" ...
[12:42] <seb128> janimo: what?
[12:42] <janimo> where is the comment I don't see it in LP?
[12:42] <janimo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/46554
[12:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46554 in thunar "thunar takes over gnome "places"+"bookmarks" menu in gnome panel" [Unknown,Unknown]
[12:43] <seb128> janimo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/desktop-file-utils/+bug/35997/ is the bug about that for me
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35997 in libgnome "Gnome's Places menu starts Konqueror instead of Nautilus" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]
[12:43] <janimo> seb128: ah ok, duplicates
[12:43] <seb128> janimo: that's the one you mentioned on the xfce bug
[12:44] <janimo> ah sorry, I tought it was the latest one
[12:44] <seb128> np
[12:44] <seb128> bbl now :)
[12:51] <janimo> nomed: I think I found it
[12:52] <nomed> janimo, is gnome-session in ?
[12:52] <infinity> No, gnome-session isn't being pulled it.
[12:52] <janimo> nomed: ubiquity-frontend-gtk
[12:52] <nomed> yep
[12:52] <infinity> Err, no.  ubiquity isn't installed until later in the process.
[12:52] <janimo> gotta see though what
[12:52] <infinity> You're getting GNOME libs before that.
[12:53] <nomed> infinity, but ...
[12:53] <nomed> shouldn't it be listed in manifest file ?
[12:53] <janimo> infinity: is there a chronologically ordered list?
[12:53] <infinity> janimo: The build log?
[12:53] <janimo> how do I see what (and how) it is getting installed?
[12:53] <infinity> janimo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/dapper/xubuntu/20060527/livecd-20060527-i386.out
[12:53] <janimo> infinity: thanks
[12:53] <infinity> janimo: I'm doing a test in a chroot to see what's pulling in libgnome.
[12:54] <infinity> (You're lucky I have a local mirror..)
[12:54] <janimo> infinity: I am in a chroot too trying to install xubuntu bits too
[12:54] <janimo> got down to xubuntu-live (so it's not gdm this time)
[12:55] <infinity> Err, I just installed xterm and -desktop, and got libgnome pulled in.
[12:55] <infinity> Or is libgnome expected?
[12:55] <infinity> (which extra library or libraries are you actually complaining about?)
[12:56] <janimo> infinity: no libgnome is not expected
[12:56] <janimo> only libgnomeprint
[12:56] <infinity> Oh, maybe I just can't read.
[12:56] <janimo> ah indeed I get that too... :(
[12:57] <janimo> so not via gdm but somewhere else
[12:57] <infinity> I'll know for sure in about 2 minutes. :)
[12:58] <janimo> hm I wonder why firefox-gnome-support is installed
[12:58] <infinity> It's not.
[12:58] <nomed> infinity, janimo
[12:58] <infinity> apt's merely telling you that it's suggested.
[12:58] <janimo> nomed: yes?
[12:58] <nomed> why those pkges you're checking are not in the manifest file ?
[12:59] <nomed> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/dapper-desktop-i386.manifest
[12:59] <janimo> nomed, I know too little about all this to answer that :)
[12:59] <nomed> i guess that can help ..
[12:59] <infinity> nomed: What isn't in the manifest?
[12:59] <nomed> it means it happen after the manifest file is generated
[12:59] <infinity> nomed: I see everything there...
[01:00] <nomed> infinity, i do not see any unwanted package there
[01:00] <janimo> hmm abiword-plugins?
[01:00] <infinity> libgnome2-0 2.14.1-0ubuntu2
[01:00] <infinity> libgnome2-common 2.14.1-0ubuntu2
[01:00] <infinity> At least.
[01:01] <nomed> ahh k
[01:01] <janimo> nope not abiword either, just on a fresh install
[01:02] <nomed> liblaunchpad-integration0
[01:02] <nomed> i guess
[01:02] <janimo> infinity: if a package is in the seed is it going to be taken into dep calculations with priority?
[01:03] <infinity> janimo: I'm not sure I understand the question...
[01:03] <janimo> infinity: abiword and gnumeric depend on goffice|goffice-gtk
[01:03] <nomed> janimo, if a package is in the seed
[01:04] <janimo> infinity: and I explcitietly seed goffice-gtk to make sure it is chose. Is this right?
[01:04] <nomed> mainly in xubuntu-desktop
[01:04] <nomed> and it depends on pkge1|pkge2
[01:04] <nomed> even if pkge2 is listed in as xubuntu-desktop dep
[01:04] <infinity> janimo: Well, libgoffice-gtk-1-2 was chosen, so it seems to be working as expected.
[01:04] <nomed> pkge1 will be installed by "package"
[01:05] <nomed> i hope you got what i mean
[01:05] <janimo> ok
[01:05] <infinity> nomed: No, if pkg1 and pkg2 conflict, and you ask for "install pkg2, and pk3 which depends on pkg1|pkg2", apt only has one choice.
[01:05] <infinity> It can either do what you ask, or do nothing.
[01:05] <nomed> what's nice is that this issue is not present in smart-pn
[01:05] <nomed> pm even
[01:06] <nomed> infinity, see xterm issue
[01:06] <infinity> nomed: Yes, that's different.  xterm and gnome-session don't conflict.
[01:06] <janimo> nomed: lpintegration is ok
[01:06] <infinity> nomed: The goffice|goffice-gtk stuff should conflict, hence there's only one way to satisfy the dep.
[01:07] <nomed> infinity, yep
[01:08] <nomed> but i'm not supposing libgnome is added by an issue like that one
[01:09] <infinity> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[01:09] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:09] <infinity> That's odd.
[01:10] <infinity> Nothing's pulling in libbonoboui2-0...
[01:12] <nomed> infinity, i guess it's because that "pkge2" gets installed as dep by something else ...
[01:12] <nomed> so those pkges are not needed anymore ..
[01:13] <infinity> But nothing should have an alternate dependency on libbonoboui2-0.. That would make no sense.
[01:13] <nomed> i'm sorry for not being clearer ..
[01:13] <nomed> true even ..
[01:13] <janimo> libgnome2-common is installed and depends on bonobo
[01:13] <infinity> janimo:
[01:13] <infinity> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[01:13] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libbonoboui2-common* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:13] <infinity>   libgnomeui-common*
[01:13] <infinity> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 6 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[01:14] <infinity> Removing all that doesn't remove anything you've seeded.
[01:14] <infinity> So, I'm not sure why it's getting installed.
[01:14] <infinity> mvo: Around?
[01:14] <janimo> infinity: right...
[01:14] <nomed> testing that on a pbuild login ...
[01:14] <infinity> nomed: Same deal.  This is a clean chroot.
[01:15] <ogra> urgh, mdz your last seed change makes my edubuntu seeds explode ...
[01:15] <infinity> I just did "apt-get install xterm xubuntu-desktop", then started trying to remove gnome libs.
[01:15] <mdz> ogra: how so?
[01:16] <ogra> mdz, tons of conflicts (server, ship-live etc)
[01:16] <Diskdoc> Hello. I have a sweet, calm saturday on my hands and I thought I'd help testing the RC. I'm not sure if this is the right channel to ask but I was wondering about the testing matrix.. Under the Testing/Current page there is a point 16 in the Matrix called "DapperUpgrades". So, is it ok for me to upgrade Breezy using the online update procedure and then test, from what step?
[01:16] <mdz> ogra: that's weird; my only change was to add one package to desktop
[01:16] <ogra> the log shows a lot more for me
[01:16] <janimo> does apt not have some logging to tell us how it decided it installs a package?
[01:17] <ogra> there is a big tail of other chages (not from you) attached
[01:17] <janimo> debugging rather than logging I guess
[01:18] <ogra> mdz, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mdz-merge.log
[01:19] <infinity> janimo: It has the pkgProblemResolver, but that doesn't appear to output anything on install (hence why I pinged mvo)
[01:19] <ogra> mdz, thats what i get if i do "bzr log -r649 dapper/"
[01:20] <mdz> ogra: looks right; I merged my branch with mainline and then added that one commit
[01:20] <ogra> hmm
[01:21] <mdz> ogra: you can just add landscape-client to desktop and skip the merge if there's a problem
[01:21] <infinity> janimo: So far, I'm up to this many useless packages:
[01:21] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libbonoboui2-common* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:21] <infinity>   libgnomeui-common* libgnomevfs2-0* libgnomevfs2-common* libgsf-gnome-1-113*
[01:21] <infinity> janimo: Can you spot more in the manifest?
[01:21] <janimo> infinity: these are what I saw too by grepping  what apt-get would install
[01:22] <ogra> mdz, yep, thats what i will do, but i suspect i'll get more and more out of sync, at least with server and ship-live i am already
[01:22] <mvo> infinity: now around (I was having lunch)
[01:23] <infinity> mvo: Is there any way to get a pkgProblemResolver-style report during "apt-get install" when the install doesn't fail? :)
[01:23] <infinity> mvo: (ie: to trace why apt is installing packages that are obviously not depdenencies of the final system state)
[01:23] <mvo> infinity: yeah, it should be: "apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true install lala" <- this should work if the problem resolver is called at all
[01:24] <mvo> infinity: but it may well be that it is not run because apt thinks its all good
[01:24] <infinity> mvo: Yeah, then it's not being run at all, cause that's in my config. :)
[01:24] <mvo> infinity: what package/situtation is this about?
[01:24] <infinity> mvo: (It runs at other times, like when removing packages with deps, so I know it works)
[01:25] <mvo> infinity: you always run with the problemResolver enabled? woah!
[01:25] <infinity> mvo: See above.  If you "install xterm xubuntu-desktop" in a clean chroot, you end up with (at least) these extra packages installed:
[01:25] <infinity>   libbonoboui2-0* libbonoboui2-common* libgnome2-0* libgnome2-common* libgnomeui-0*
[01:25] <infinity>   libgnomeui-common* libgnomevfs2-0* libgnomevfs2-common* libgsf-gnome-1-113*
[01:25] <infinity> mvo: In my chroots, I do.  Not in my base system.
[01:27] <mvo> infinity: ok, let me check
[01:28] <tsdgeos> jordi: ping
[01:29] <infinity> mvo: An option to output the full (I know it will be huge) decision tree, so I can easily track back "why the hell did you install that?" would be nice.
[01:37] <mvo> infinity: ok, I'm adding it now to see if it brings some light into this
[01:48] <mvo> infinity: it seems like abiword is draging the stuff in
[01:50] <Lathiat> seb128: are you aware of the problem with the "Removable Devices" menu randomly eating and uneating devices?
[01:50] <seb128> Lathiat: no
[01:51] <mvo> infinity: my bzr apt has a option: "Debug::pkgDepCache::infinity" now, but I guess "Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall" is more appropriate
[01:51] <seb128> Lathiat: "eating"? it's supposed to list partitions and mounted removable media, not to list CD drives with no CD mounted by example
[01:51] <Lathiat> seb128: i have 5 internal disks there all in the places menu
[01:52] <Lathiat> seb128: if i mount a usb disk, a "Removable Devices" sub-menu appears, bu tall the internal disks move into it
[01:52] <Lathiat> along with the usb disk
[01:52] <Lathiat> when i unmount it hey all go back into the main places menu
[01:52] <seb128> looks fine
[01:52] <janimo> mvo, abiword itslef or abiword-plugins?
[01:52] <Lathiat> this is expected behavior?
[01:52] <mvo> janimo: according to my debug output abiword itself
[01:52] <seb128> Lathiat: is that the presence of the menu you call "eating"?
[01:52] <Lathiat> seb128: yes :)
[01:52] <nomed> janimo, i'm pretty sure it's abiword-plugin ..
[01:53] <nomed> mvo, really ?
[01:53] <seb128> Lathiat: after 5 items you get a submenu, same for bookmarks, that's to avoid too long menu
[01:53] <Lathiat> hrm i thought it happened even when i had less..
[01:54] <mvo> nomed: libgnomecanvas is a direct dependency of abiword, this brings in libgnomeprint
[01:54] <janimo> mvo, ah those are ok
[01:54] <janimo> mvo, print and canvas
[01:54] <Goshawk> hi
[01:55] <janimo> only libgnome and libgnomeui are extra
[01:55] <_ion> gdk_window_shape_combine_mask (win->window, (GdkBitmap *) mask, 0, 0);
[01:55] <Lathiat> seb128: hrm, indeed
[01:55] <janimo> and bonobo
[01:55] <_ion> Sorry, wrong channel.
[01:55] <mvo> janimo: libgnome itself it because libgoffice brings libbonoboui and that depends on libgnom2 . libgoffice is needed for abiword-plugins
[01:55] <Lathiat> seb128: did the number change?
[01:55] <mvo> nomed: so you are right :)
[01:55] <seb128> Lathiat: not that I know of no
[01:55] <Lathiat> i've sine added another disk and i used to get the same thing, but oh well
[01:55] <mvo> nomed: I just misunderstood the issue it seems
[01:55] <janimo> mvo, we have an alternate dep on libgoffice-gtk which is seeded explcitely
[01:55] <infinity> mvo: Debug::pkgDepCache::infinity? :)
[01:55] <seb128> Lathiat: but CD drives used to be listed
[01:56] <janimo> mvo, Ithought that  would be chosen
[01:56] <seb128> Lathiat: now we list removable medias only when mounted
[01:56] <nomed> janimo, it doesn't metter
[01:56] <nomed> as it's in xubuntu-desktop
[01:56] <Lathiat> seb128: hm ok - cheers
[01:56] <seb128> Lathiat: np ;)
[01:56] <infinity> mvo: That libgoffice isn't actually pulled in.
[01:56] <Goshawk> is it possible to add userspace-bootsplash in "Provides" field of the package usplash and change the dependece of ubuntu-desktop from usplash to userspace-bootsplash? This will allow other usermode bootsplashes to work with ubuntu-desktop...
[01:56] <nomed> smart-pm would be able to resolve this .. apt doesn't
[01:57] <infinity> mvo: Note that when I do the install, then remove the above-mentioned packages, they don't remove anything I asked apt to install previously.
[01:57] <seb128> Lathiat: is the submenu itself an issue? I think we could have a gconf key for the number of items before displaying it, but not for that cycle anyway
[01:57] <nomed> infinity, that's because ..
[01:57] <nomed> libgoffice-gtk-1-2 is seeded ..
[01:57] <Lathiat> seb128: well the submenu annoys me because - and its very confusing having it appear and disappear
[01:57] <nomed> i guess
[01:57] <Lathiat> but i can see th elogic in movign to a submenu when it starts to get a bit long
[01:58] <seb128> right
[01:58] <infinity> nomed: Yes, which conflict with the other libgoffice, which means apt will only install one, which means it shouldn't be installing the deps for the other.
[01:58] <nomed> that's the case "pkge1"|"pkge2" ...
[01:58] <seb128> the issue is that you just moving around the limit
[01:58] <infinity> mvo: So, apt is installing deps for packages that it's not actually installing?
[01:58] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:58] <nomed> infinity, but abiword-plugins is in xubuntu-desktop
[01:58] <nomed> infinity, if you try ..
[01:58] <mvo> infinity: but I get it right, libgnome2-0 is the problem?
[01:58] <nomed> probably
[01:58] <nomed> apt-get install xterm libgoffice-gtk-1.2 xubuntu-desktop
[01:58] <infinity> mvo: It's one of the problems, yes.  I gave the list above.
[01:59] <mvo> infinity: yes, it checks abiword-plugins before it comes to libgoffice-gtk-1.2
[01:59] <nomed> that issue is gone
[01:59] <infinity> mvo: So there's no reverse checking when it drops a dep, then.
[01:59] <mvo> infinity: exactly
[01:59] <infinity> mvo: (ie: it drops libgoffice-1.2, so it should drpo all its deps, then back up and re-resolve)
[01:59] <nomed> infinity, same as xterm issue ..
[02:00] <infinity> nomed: Well, no.  Different from the xterm issue.
[02:00] <infinity> nomed: Honest.
[02:00] <nomed> infinity, it looks exectly the same issue
[02:00] <nomed> see gdm
[02:00] <mvo> infinity: what it should probably do is, first install all direct deps, then try to resolve that
[02:00] <infinity> nomed: No, cause the gdm/xterm/gnome-session thing doesn't include any conflicts, so no dependencies get dropped.
[02:01] <Lathiat> seb128: conceivably, you could implement some smarts to stop it going into a menu when it goes 1 higher if its usually on 5, definitely not for dapper tho i guess and a little complex
[02:01] <infinity> nomed: Anyhow, I can hack around it with the above rune.
[02:01] <seb128> Lathiat: right
[02:01] <Lathiat> and i guess, i dont knwo how many items is too high on 1024x78
[02:01] <nomed> infinity, k i got what you mean
[02:01] <Lathiat> and a gconf key would definiately be handy
[02:05] <infinity> mvo: Would it behave better if I did "apt-get install <all the dependencies of xubuntu-desktop>" instead of "apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"?
[02:05] <infinity> mvo: Because then everything would be an "install" target, instead of a depency target...
[02:05] <infinity> dependency, too.
[02:06] <mvo> infinity: try apt-get install libgoffice-gtk-1-2 xubuntu-desktop
[02:07] <infinity> mvo: I will, but that's only a bandaid until the same thing happens again.
[02:07] <infinity> mvo: Hence the question.
[02:07] <nomed> ehehe
[02:07] <ogra> gah
[02:07] <ogra> i'm cursed
[02:07] <mvo> infinity: I could write you a python-apt based script that should get it right all the time, would that be ok?
[02:08] <ogra> seb128, is there any chance the evo crasher loops i have twice a week will go away before release i'd be happy if i hadnt to delete my mailboxes twice a week ...
[02:09] <seb128> ogra: no
[02:09] <nomed> mvo, wouldn't it be the same as to use the germinate output of xubuntu-desktop ?
[02:09] <ogra> (especially since its hard to search in mails you dont have)
[02:09] <ogra> :/
[02:09] <seb128> ogra: we are pretty frozen now, I doubt any change will make it now
[02:09] <seb128> ogra: especially that you are the only one to get that issue so to debug it ...
[02:10] <ogra> seb128, you pointed me everytime to upsteam bugs when i showed you the traceback
[02:10] <infinity> nomed: yeah, I could use the germinate output.  The reason I don't is to test that the -meta packages actually work.
[02:10] <ogra> seb128, so i had some hope :)
[02:10] <seb128> ogra: right, but no move from upstream, they have some manys bug and so few people for them :/
[02:10] <mvo> nomed: I'm not sure about this because I think even then the order may be important
[02:11] <ogra> yep, understood ...
[02:11] <mvo> nomed: let me play with my python-apt based idea
[02:11] <infinity> Anyhow, for now I'm just going to band-aid over it.
[02:11] <ogra> but i'm not really fond of changing to another mailer, i like evo ...
[02:11] <nomed> infinity, you could test
[02:11] <infinity> For edgy, we need to mangle how we do livefs stuff a bit, I think.
[02:11] <nomed> apt-gte install xubuntu-desktop xterm ?
[02:11] <nomed> infinity, if for edjy smart-pm will be in main ...
[02:12] <nomed> that issue is gone
[02:12] <infinity> Yeah, the bandaid appears to do the right thing for now.
[02:13] <infinity> nomed: While your enthusiasm is appreciated, I have a hunch that for every apt bug smart fixes, it'll bring a new bug of its own instead.
[02:13] <infinity> I don't doubt that switching will be a wonderful thing at some point, but I'm in no rush to trade the bugs I know for the unknown either. :)
[02:14] <nomed> i understand :)
[02:19] <infinity> janimo: Want me to build you new live images with the reduced package set?
[02:20] <janimo> infinity: reduced?
[02:20] <infinity> janimo: Without libgnome and crap. :)
[02:20] <janimo> ah :) , it can wait till next cron if you think it works :)
[02:21] <janimo> thanks
[02:21] <infinity> I'm not positive, but I think so...
[02:21] <janimo> ok, please build then so we make sure it does not come up tomorrow or on Monday
[02:22] <infinity> Alright, spinning livefs builds.
[02:22] <janimo> thanks for debugging it. I still wonder why this is the case since the abiword change is in for about two weeks I think, and noone reported this before
[02:23] <janimo> and IIRC when it just depended on libgoffice w/o the alternate it brought in >50Mb worth of gnome stuff not jjust these libs
[02:26] <nomed> janimo, would it be an idea to set the xubuntu gtk theme in gdm ?
[02:26] <janimo> nomed: which theme would that be?
[02:26] <janimo> clearlooks?
[02:26] <nomed> yes
[02:27] <nomed> well ..
[02:27] <janimo> I guess we should set it
[02:27] <nomed> the one that we use
[02:27] <janimo> is the theme visible in the gdm screen?
[02:27] <nomed> yes
[02:27] <ogra> janimo, btw, how did you work around the fact that ldm depends on a ton of gnome libs ?
[02:28] <janimo> ogra, does ldm dep on gnome libs?
[02:28] <janimo> if so I guess I'll have to revert the LTSP stuff :(
[02:28] <janimo> did not know I thought it's a simple python script w/o deps
[02:28] <janimo> I did not check before
[02:29] <janimo> nomed: so replace GtkTheme=Human right?
[02:29] <nomed> yes
[02:29] <ogra> janimo, Depends: openssh-client | ssh, python, python-gtk2, python-gnome2, python-glade2, gtk2-engines-clearlooks, xserver-xorg | xserver-xfree86 | xserver
[02:29] <janimo> nomed, are you working on gdm icons? If so I can make the change in the same upload
[02:29] <nomed> janimo, python-gnome2
[02:29] <nomed> janimo, i can do that
[02:29] <janimo> ogra: oh well, I guess then no LTSP/xubuntu :(
[02:30] <janimo> what is used from python-gnome2? canvas?
[02:30] <ogra> janimo, we *might* switch to gdm on edgy, seems it has a ssh mode now
[02:30] <mvo> infinity: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/stable_inst.py <- should give you a stable way to install
[02:30] <ogra> janimo, yep, ldm is 95% gnome-canvas and 5% magic
[02:31] <infinity> mvo: And if I want to use it in a chroot?  Can I point it at another apt root?
[02:31] <janimo> ogra, I wish gnome-python did not bind the whole gnome libs in one binary package :(
[02:31] <mvo> infinity: do you currently run with lots of "-o Dir::State=/chroot" etc options?
[02:32] <ogra> janimo, well, nothing we can change now
[02:32] <janimo> ogra, true
[02:32] <infinity> mvo: No, right now I just cheat and do "chroot target/ apt-get install ..."
[02:32] <infinity> mvo: But since I don't want your python script or python-apt in the chroot. :)
[02:33] <mvo> infinity: run the script outside the chroot and just use the package names it spits out :)
[02:34] <infinity> mvo: Oh, it'll give me the "correct" install order?
[02:34] <infinity> mvo: Cool.
[02:34] <infinity> mvo: (Obviously, I hadn't actually run it yet)
[02:34] <mvo> infinity: that reminds me, I should probably get rid of the ugly progress message
[02:35] <mvo> infinity: it first goes over all dependencies and marks them for install *without* letting the autoInstaller or the fixer do anything. then it runs the fixer and let it deal with it. should be fine for the metapackages and cases like this
[02:35] <mvo> I think it should bprobably be done in apt in a similar way
[02:35] <infinity> mvo: Err, no.  Running it outside the chroot won't help, since it needs to use the available/status from the target. :)
[02:35] <infinity> mvo: So, yeah, I need a bunch of -o parsing, which I don't see it doing.
[02:36] <mvo> infinity: ok, we can point it via apt_pkg.Config.Set("Dir::" to the right location. or you just install the very usefull python-apt in the chroot ;)
[02:37] <infinity> I don't feel the urge to install python-apt in the livefs target and them remove it again at the end. :)
[02:37] <infinity> Ideally, this should all be done from the base system.
[02:38] <infinity> mvo: However, Dir:: is a constant, so it doesn't need to be done from the command-line.  I can just hardcode it and wrap this into the livecd-rootfs package for future use.
[02:38] <mvo> just kidding, I see the point
[02:38] <infinity> (All for edgy, of course... I'm not changing anything this drastic at this point)
[02:38] <infinity> Right now, I'm "happy" with hackish workarounds.
[02:39] <infinity> And by "happy", I mean "miserable".  :)
[02:41] <mvo> infinity: try the updated version http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/stable_inst.py
[02:42] <infinity> +# first argument is the chroot
[02:42] <infinity> That's a complete lie.
[02:43] <infinity> You don't parse it as an argument at all. :)
[02:43] <infinity> (Not that you need to, I'm fine with the hardcoded version)
[02:43] <mvo> infinity: I intended to at first ,)
[02:44] <infinity> The only thing worse than uncommented code is commented code where the code and comments don't match. :)
[02:45] <mvo> infinity: that is totally true!
[02:45] <lifeless> infinity: that can be usefulu actually :)
[02:45] <infinity> Well, now, that comment isn't very nice at all.
[02:45] <infinity> JERK.
[02:45] <lifeless> because it can signal something needs fixing :)
[02:46] <mvo> infinity: fixed again, now you can pick what project this one belongs to
[02:46] <jordi> tsdgeos: pong
[02:47] <nomed> janimo, ping
[02:47] <infinity> Man, the comment keeps changing, but the code never does.  ENTERTAINMENT.
[02:47] <janimo> nomed: pong
[02:47] <nomed> janimo, that theme is absurd ...
[02:47] <nomed> icon-shutdown-active.png
[02:48] <nomed> icon-shutdown.png
[02:48] <nomed> icon-shutdown-prelight.png
[02:48] <nomed> ?
[02:48] <nomed> what's that ?
[02:48] <janimo> different icons for different states of the button (mouse hovering over it, clicked, inactive)
[02:48] <nomed> why don't we use just one ?
[02:48] <nomed> janimo, true if they were different icons
[02:49] <janimo> we can use one, as the 3 are exaclty the same right now
[02:49] <janimo> nomed, yes feel free to use one
[02:49] <nomed> k
[02:51] <mvo> infinity: the code is PERFECT
[02:51] <mvo> its just the comments that need love
[02:52] <janimo> ogra: what is this landscape package? do I need to add it to xubuntu :) ?
[02:53] <ogra> janimo, you should (its empty anyway) see apt-cache show landscape-client
[02:53] <infinity> mvo: Heh. :)
[02:53] <janimo> ogra, any LP links for Landscape yet?
[02:54] <nomed> janimo, and if i use absolute paths ?
[02:54] <ogra> dunno, i didnt follow the development very closely
[02:54] <nomed> so i remove all those icons :P
[02:54] <janimo> nomed, we should not cannot depend on a theme...
[02:54] <zul> heylo
[02:54] <janimo> if it's not there the icons won't show up
[02:56] <mdke> janimo: you know, it struck me that you could include the server and packaging guide in xubuntu-docs if you wanted. Maybe it's a bit late
[02:56] <nomed> janimo, why doesn't xubuntu-default-settings depend on any pkge ?
[02:56] <janimo> mdke, if I do another docs upload I'll try to keep this in mind
[02:57] <janimo> mdke, although we have no prominent place for showing the docs, the desktop guide is linked from the about page
[02:57] <nomed> janimo, it has to depend on
[02:57] <mdke> janimo: yeah, you'd have to add it there, I suppose. Anyway, I'll leave it to you
[02:57] <janimo> nomed: it des not need to dep on gdm
[02:57] <nomed> Human if we use Human as gtk theme i guess
[02:57] <nomed> or on xubuntu one if we use xubuntu one ..
[02:57] <seb128> janimo: you are really obstined on that thunar bug :/
[02:58] <janimo> seb128: no, I just do not understand your comments
[02:58] <janimo> seb128: and you are not actually saying anything about the real issues upstream brought up
[02:58] <seb128> janimo: grrrrr
[02:58] <seb128> I explained you how all that works like 5 times now
[02:58] <janimo> seb128: ok question.
[02:59] <seb128> THAT IS NOT A MIMETYPE, STOP USING IT
[02:59] <janimo> seb128: should Places be openable by anything but nautilus?
[02:59] <seb128> yep
[02:59] <seb128> by the default "x-directory/normal" handler
[02:59] <janimo> seb128: how can that be set?
[02:59] <janimo> ok
[02:59] <seb128> x-directory/normal=app.desktop to defaults.list
[02:59] <seb128> I already explained that on IRC and on the bug
[02:59] <lmanul> janimo: give seb128 a break or he'll really hate you ;-)
[02:59] <janimo> that is set by both nautilus and thunar right?
[02:59] <janimo> lmanul: too late :)
[02:59] <nomed> seb128, question.
[03:00] <nomed> what does it happen if gdm doesn't find the gtk theme ?
[03:00] <lmanul> janimo: Hehe, well, maybe try to print out the IRC log and read it a few times ? :)
[03:00] <seb128> janimo: nothing is "set" by them, they both can open x-directory/normal yes, the default is set by the defaults.list
[03:00] <janimo> lmanul: printers do not work in xubuntu, I cannot do that
[03:00] <janimo> seb128: so if there are two handlers, why does gnome not use them?
[03:00] <lmanul> janimo: then just read it on the screen :-p
[03:01] <seb128> janimo: because you "hijack and break" that mimetype mechanism by using a private namespace fallback
[03:01] <janimo> seb128: cannot be that prvate if firefox is using it?
[03:01] <seb128> stop with that now
[03:01] <seb128> stop claiming that firefox use it
[03:01] <seb128> or prove it
[03:02] <janimo> seb128: and again. I do not hijack or break anything. Remember this is upstream thunar behavior. I'd rather you fight it out with upstream developer rather than
[03:02] <seb128> that's a free claim without any technical backup
[03:02] <janimo> forcing me to make a change which I do not fully understand the risks of
[03:02] <seb128> I'll not force you to do anything
[03:02] <seb128> I'll fix it myself
[03:02] <janimo> seb128: well that's the same thing
[03:02] <seb128> GNOME is the default desktop and better to have xubuntu than Ubuntu broken, that you like it or not
[03:03] <janimo> seb128: are you sure you will not break firefox in xubuntu?
[03:03] <janimo> seb128: oh really? how technical is that answer?
[03:03] <janimo> and gnoome is NOT BROKEN!
[03:03] <seb128> it is
[03:03] <janimo> user installs thunar then complains it opens it's places
[03:03] <seb128> thunar hijack the directory opening
[03:03] <janimo> do notr install it then
[03:03] <seb128> grumpf
[03:04] <mdke> that's definitely a bug.
[03:04] <azeem> make nautilus Conflicts: thunar
[03:04] <seb128> what about reading what I explained you like 10 times now on how mimetype association work?
[03:04] <janimo> really , I'd rather make thunar conflict with nautilus than make a change which can affect the default xubuntu install
[03:04] <mdke> konq was doing the same at one stage, thanksfully it was fixed
[03:04] <seb128> a directory is x-directory/normal
[03:04] <seb128> you can discuss with kubuntu guys, not with xubuntu team it looks like
[03:04] <janimo> seb128: I asked you to please answer the points upstream thunar is rainsing rather then repeating the same arguments _to me_
[03:04] <seb128> that's noted for next time they need something
[03:05] <seb128> I already wasted 1 hour explaining again and again the same thing
[03:05] <janimo> I am not thunar usptream have only a avgue idea how the mime system works
[03:05] <seb128> janimo: I commented on the bug
[03:05] <seb128> and upstream has not point
[03:05] <janimo> so I am not comfortable doing osmething because you claim it breaks gnome, since I know you don;t care at all if it breaks xubuntu
[03:05] <seb128> it looks like they rather don't know how the freedesktop mimesystem work
[03:05] <janimo> so please answer the points brought up by thunar upstream and I am fine with whatever you two decide
[03:06] <seb128> I REPLIED
[03:06] <janimo> but do not make me do a change or threaten to do it yourslef without being sure of it's consequences
[03:06] <seb128> I don't threaten
[03:06] <seb128> I inform you I'll fix that bug if you don't
[03:06] <janimo> seb128: you did not reply. A reply is when what you say is connected to what previous comment said
[03:06] <seb128> they didn't say anything
[03:07] <seb128> they say "firefox might use it"
[03:08] <janimo> seb128: ok if firefox does not use it  or it does not break anything I am fine with any fix you make
[03:08] <infinity> What's the bug here?
[03:08] <janimo> thing is you don;t know if that;s the case and you don;'t care. So your fix may cause other bugs
[03:08] <janimo> infinity: bug 35997
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35997 in libgnome "Gnome's Places menu starts Konqueror instead of Nautilus" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35997
[03:09] <seb128> infinity: thunar listing itself as an app opening "x-directory/gnome-default-handler", where "x-directory/gnome-default-handler" is not a mimetype but something internally defined by gnome-vfs as a fallback mechanism
[03:09] <janimo> infinity: at the end, since it's an older bug that has a new duplicate
[03:09] <janimo> seb128: 'fallback mechanism' implies there are no alternatives right?
[03:09] <janimo> so if there are two default handlers and they are not used I would not call it fallback...
[03:10] <seb128> janimo: it implies what I explained before, if no app is defined to handle "x-directory/normal" gnome-vfs force one
[03:10] <seb128> janimo: it should be set only if there is no x-directory/normal handler since it hijacks x-directory/normal when set
[03:10] <janimo> seb128: dont' nautilus and thunat both handel x-directory/normal
[03:10] <janimo> ?
[03:10] <seb128> janimo: THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD NOT SET IT
[03:11] <janimo> seb128: it's not a fallback then
[03:11] <seb128> IT SHOULD BE SET IF NO APP HANDLE THAT TYPE ONLY
[03:12] <seb128> janimo: it's a fallback in the sense it's set and used only if there is no x-directory/normal handler
[03:12] <zul> cant we all just get along?
[03:12] <seb128> zul: no, thunar breaks GNOME and janimo will not fix the bug for whatever reason
[03:12] <janimo> seb128: do you have any docs about how this private thing is suppoed to work
[03:12] <ogra> heh
[03:12] <seb128> janimo: no, it's private stuff, not public API documented
[03:12] <janimo> I cannot further discuss this since we are not getting anywhere
[03:13] <seb128> janimo: it's supposed to NOT be used
[03:13] <nomed> ogra, what does it happen if gdm can't find the gtkTheme ?
[03:13] <ogra> it falls back to the one in gdm.conf
[03:13] <infinity> janimo: seb128 is right here.  You shouldn't be using the GNOME handler.
[03:13] <seb128> janimo: right, you seem to have no knowledge of the mimetype mechanism nor and will not listen to what people explain
[03:13] <ogra> if there is none found either it falls back to HappyGNOME or something
[03:14] <janimo> infinity: I am not disputing that, I'd rather that instead of yelling at me he commented the exact same things in LP
[03:14] <nomed> ok ...
[03:14] <janimo> seb128: I am listening but not before making sure your fix does not cause more breakage
[03:14] <infinity> janimo: He has, as far as I can see in the bug log.
[03:14] <nomed> so it doesn't need to depend on any gtk theme true ?
[03:14] <janimo> infinity: ok, it means I am really that clueless what can I say.
[03:14] <seb128> janimo: I tried my best to explain you that's right, what about try on your xubuntu and let me know if you face any issue?
[03:15] <janimo> seb128: I will
[03:15] <seb128> janimo: do it now and not after dapper please then
[03:15] <seb128> instead of saying again and again it might break something and that you refuse to do the change because of that
[03:17] <infinity> janimo: In the upstream bug, upstream says" If software (like
[03:17] <infinity> gnome-panel) wants to use nautilus, it should simply run nautilus.
[03:17] <infinity> x-directory/gnome-default-handler is not garantied to be nautilus; in fact that
[03:17] <infinity> would be really useless. Instead it's the user's preferred file manager."
[03:17] <seb128> gnome-panel doesn't want to run nautilus, it wants to run the preferred handler for x-directory/normal
[03:18] <ogra> nomed, oh, sorry, i misread ... i thought youre talking about the GDM theme
[03:18] <infinity> janimo: Respond, and let them know that x-directory/gnome-default-handler is the default *GNOME* file manager fallback, but x-directory/normal is the *default file manager*.
[03:18] <nomed> ogra, yes and not ..
[03:18] <nomed> :)
[03:18] <ogra> no idea how it handles a missing gtk theme
[03:18] <ogra> i guess it falls back to the default widget set
[03:18] <infinity> janimo: He seems to not know about x-directory/normal, since he earlier states "x-directory/gnome-default-handler is, as
[03:18] <infinity> the name suggests, the default handler for directories (should be renamed to
[03:18] <infinity> something w/o 'gnome' in its name to avoid confusion)"
[03:18] <infinity> (Which is wrong)
[03:19] <nomed> ogra, i see edubuntu-artwork depends on gdm
[03:19] <seb128> (cf my comment on lp from "2006-05-27 10:40:15 UTC")
[03:19] <infinity> It has gnome- in the name, specifically because it IS gnome-specific.
[03:19] <janimo> oh I wish one of yoou commented on that bugzilla instead of me proxying
[03:19] <seb128> "That works for any mimetype. A directory is from "x-directory/normal" type, setting a default is only usin "x-directory/normal=app.desktop" to the defaults.list"
[03:19] <ogra> nomed, yep
[03:19] <infinity> janimo: That would involve signing up for another bugzilla. :)
[03:19] <janimo> infinity: I know that;s why I am not asking you to :)
[03:20] <nomed> janimo, shouldn't xubuntu-default-settings depends on gdm too ?
[03:20] <janimo> but thing is I am caught between upstream and ubuntu on a matter I know too little about
[03:20] <janimo> to be convinced by either
[03:20] <janimo> being threatened or yelled at does not help in such cases
[03:20] <janimo> quite the opposite actually
[03:21] <janimo> nomed: no it can work w/oo gdm
[03:21] <seb128> I yell because you ask again and again the same questions and I already replied to them
[03:21] <infinity> janimo: I'm not yelling at you.  I'm not French.  :)  I'm just telling you that seb128 is right.
[03:21] <infinity> seb128: Enjoy it while it lasts, I'll decide you're wrong about something else tomorrow. ;)
[03:21] <seb128> I've enough bugs to reply to, to not explain myself 5 times on that one
[03:21] <seb128> infinity: hehe ;)
[03:22] <seb128> janimo: what you are saying is "I'll not fix the bug because I don't know how to fix it, and I'll not let you fix it because I don't trust you to not break xubuntu"
[03:22] <seb128> janimo: which is basically "I'll not fix that for dapper"
[03:22] <infinity> Argh, where's pitti?
[03:23] <ogra> just make thunar conflict with nautilus ... :P
[03:23] <janimo> seb128: no, I say I am not going to fix it before I am convinced it's an actual fix
[03:23] <infinity> seb128: Do you know anything about pitti breaking the poppler ABI?
[03:23] <janimo> seb128: it will be sorted by dapper one way or another
[03:23] <seb128> infinity: yeah, cf devel list
[03:23] <nomed> if it helps i may test it on a livecd (?)
[03:23] <infinity> seb128: Yeah, I meant "anything more than that". :)
[03:23] <seb128> infinity: we decided that tetex-bin rebuild is the way to go, all the other packages using poppler have been rebuilt since
[03:23] <seb128> infinity: but mdz didn't reply to my "ok to rebuild it now before dapper"
[03:24] <seb128> janimo: are you aware that it might be too late for changing for dapper already?
[03:24] <janimo> seb128: no, it's not
[03:25] <seb128> janimo: if you decide you will no fix it and that we have to change gnome-vfs it's probably
[03:25] <janimo> if it were how did you want to fix it today?
[03:25] <janimo> seb128: no worries it will be fixed in thunar.
[03:25] <seb128> lol
[03:26] <infinity> seb128: But we habe a different ABI from Debian now, with the same package name and same SONAME.
[03:26] <seb128> the only way you have to change that to thunar is what I said
[03:26] <infinity> seb128: That's double-plus ungood, in my books.
[03:26] <seb128> infinity:
[03:26] <seb128> mai 26 18:25:10 <mdz>	pitti: if packages were built with the changed libpoppler they might need to be rebuilt
[03:26] <seb128> mai 26 18:25:10 <seb128>	pitti: because if the ABI change we probably want to revert it, no?
[03:26] <seb128> mai 26 18:25:13 <pitti>	seb128: TBH, rebuilding the rdepends seems safer to me
[03:27] <seb128> ...
[03:27] <seb128> mai 26 18:26:12 <seb128>	pitti: but we make us binary incompatible with rest of the world then?
[03:27] <seb128> ..
[03:27] <seb128> mai 26 18:27:33 <pitti>	seb128: is that an issue? if so, well, then we can revert the bug fix, too, but I wouldn't be so happy about reintroducing a bug
[03:27] <seb128> infinity: that's from yesterday
[03:27] <infinity> seb128: Thanks.
[03:27] <seb128> np
[03:28] <infinity> seb128: Oh, we may be saved.  Our poppler SONAME is already different from Debian's.
[03:28] <infinity> And binary compatibility with the rest of the world is less of a concern for me.
[03:28] <seb128> I think they have a new poppler version with the same soname to NEW atm
[03:28] <nomed> janimo, ping me when you'll have 2 min ...
[03:29] <janimo> nomed: now
[03:29] <nomed> ok
[03:29] <infinity> seb128: I can contact Ondrej and ask him to include our patch before it clears NEW, thus sidestepping the problem. :)
[03:29] <nomed> we're not using the gtk theme (?)
[03:29] <janimo> anyone besided fabbione know why ubnutu and kubuntu-devel irclogs are collecting the whole past week?
[03:29] <seb128> infinity: right ;)
[03:29] <janimo> nomed: where?
[03:30] <nomed> i do not see the xubuntu gtk theme based on ubuntu-looks
[03:30] <nomed> didn't jmak send it to you ?
[03:30] <nomed> or jmack .. i don't remember the nick
[03:31] <janimo> nomed: no the deafult remains clearlook
[03:31] <janimo> that theme he sent was incomplete
[03:31] <janimo> too late to change that now, it remain clearlook
[03:31] <nomed> he could just tell me
[03:32] <janimo> he sent the themes to the list and noone else commented on them
[03:32] <nomed> i could even complete it ..
[03:32] <janimo> nomed: is the current one not good enough?
[03:32] <nomed> i think to use cairo ..
[03:32] <nomed> we could use ubuntu-looks
[03:32] <nomed> that's much better
[03:33] <zul> janimo: all the logs are doing that
[03:33] <janimo> zul, and is it intended?
[03:34] <nomed> janimo, then ..
[03:34] <seb128> ok, time for some non-ubuntish activities for a change, bbl
[03:35] <ogra> janimo, that we have backlogs for 2 years form all channels ? sure, why shouldnt we log if we dont keep them
[03:35] <nomed> if it 's possible to set xubuntu-default-settings Depends: tango-icon-theme
[03:35] <ogra> s/shouldnt/should/
[03:35] <janimo> ogra: I mean in the same file
[03:35] <nomed> i could use abs paths within the gdm xml
[03:35] <nomed> that's for icons ..
[03:36] <janimo> ogra: there are no daily channel logs for the past week, only one beeg weekly log
[03:36] <nomed> in this case i guess we do not need to add licences for the icons used
[03:36] <nomed> as they are cc
[03:36] <janimo> nomed, it's ok as it is now, the license is not problem
[03:36] <janimo> it would be too much work at this stage for little gain
[03:36] <janimo> so we either leave the theme as it is now, or replace those 2 icons
[03:37] <nomed> so i'll not change those icons
[03:37] <janimo> and set theme to Clearlooks if you think it's better tha human
[03:37] <nomed> let's keep that pkge as it is
[03:37] <janimo> nomed: ok
[03:37] <ogra> JanC, no idea, you need to ask fabio
[03:37] <ogra> janimo, ^^
[03:37] <janimo> ogra, yes that why I started with does anyone besided fabbione know ;) ?
[03:48] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:55] <zul> hey fabbione how is the uk?
[03:55] <Diskdoc> I'm back.. Can't seem to find any other channel more suited for Ubuntu RC bugtesting..
[03:55] <fabbione> zul: exactly like i left it last time.. warm and wet
[03:55] <zul> hmmmm...sicko...:)
[03:56] <ogra> fabbione, did you ever get your dvb-t card to work ?
[03:56] <fabbione> ogra: i don't have a dvb-t card yet
[03:56] <fabbione> only a boring analog tv
[03:57] <ogra> ah, k
[03:57] <ogra> i'm still struggling here
[03:57] <fabbione> planning to shop for them after release
[03:57] <fabbione> i have some issues... but i am nto sure if they are nv / nvidia related.
[03:57] <ogra> seems my usb adapter is recognized fine after dropping the firmware into /lib/firmware ...
[03:58] <janimo> fabbione: hi, are the irc logs supposed to not have daily dumps?
[03:58] <ogra> but i always get "tuning failed" messages
[03:58] <janimo> this channel's runs back a week already
[03:58] <fabbione> ogra: mine doesn't need fw
[03:58] <fabbione> janimo: they are supposed to be updated hourly and the script rotate on daily
[03:58] <ogra> well, i want to use it on a leptop so i needed to buy a usb one ...
[03:59] <fabbione> ogra: no i will buy PCI, but only after i test the analog one properly
[03:59] <fabbione> i want to make sure that it is not a v4l2 issue
[03:59] <fabbione> i solved the vbi one.. it was a bug in udev
[03:59] <ogra> analog works fine for me, the prob is only that analog tv will be switched off germany wide this month
[04:00] <ogra> dvb doesnt use v4l so i'm safe on that side :)
[04:00] <fabbione> whops
[04:02] <fabbione> janimo, Riddell: the logs are ok the bot.. checking the connection to the DC
[04:02] <fabbione> at least they are not lost :)
[04:02] <azeem> W 44
[04:02] <azeem> oops
[04:09] <fabbione> janimo, Riddell: ok fixed. It was an error in the daily rotate script. Can you please remind me after release to process the logs for the missing days?
[04:09] <janimo> fabbione: will try to remember :)
[04:10] <fabbione> janimo, Riddell: they are not lost.. they just need an upload
[04:10] <fabbione> but i am far from the server and bw is not fast for these kind of hacks
[04:10] <fabbione> -current anyway are good
[04:16] <Diskdoc> If I find bugs in the Dapper RC that are already noted (though not resolved) for an earlier version of Ubuntu - should I post the bug again (as concerning Dapper/RC) or just add a note at the existing bug? I'd guess at the latter..
[04:17] <ogra> add a note
[04:17] <sladen> Diskdoc: don't duplicate bugs, but do update it
[04:17] <fabbione> reopen the bug, increase severity and add tag REGRESSION
[04:17] <fabbione> hey sabdf1
[04:17] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[04:17] <sabdfl> hey hey fredom lovers
[04:18] <sabdfl> s/fre/free/
[04:18] <mdke> happy saturday
[04:19] <zakame> hi all
[04:19] <zakame> hi sabdfl
[04:19] <Diskdoc> Ok, thanks. This old PC I'm trying it out on has a strange twist to it, btw. Seems DMA (and block access maybe) has to be disabled for the CD-ROM in the bios AND at kernel boot with ide=nodma
[04:20] <Diskdoc> Though when the desktop-CD has booted I can turn on everything with hdparm again
[04:21] <zakame> fabbione: hi!
[04:21] <fabbione> hey zakame
[04:21] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[04:21] <fabbione> zakame: how is your X thingy going?
[04:22] <fabbione> zakame: infinity and I are planning the work for 7.1
[04:22] <pitti> hi
[04:22] <fabbione> zakame: and i would really really love to see you involved
[04:22] <fabbione> hey pitti
[04:23] <bddebian> Hello pitti
[04:24] <zakame> fabbione: It's going great! I'm still ploughing over the drivers list, but I seem to have managed =)
[04:24] <fabbione> zakame: great
[04:24] <zakame> fabbione: ooh! so do I! :D
[04:24] <fabbione> zakame: the idea is simple...
[04:25] <fabbione> zakame: as soon as edgy will open, we will merge 7.0 from debian and sync the packaging
[04:25] <fabbione> zakame: once that's done we will bump to 7.1 (if debian isn't there yet)
[04:25] <infinity> fabbione: Ahh, you're recruiting lackeys.  Good, good. :)
[04:26] <fabbione> infinity: zakame is learning :)
[04:26] <zakame> hmm I remember aba (or was it hmh) saying something about it on #d-devel
[04:26] <fabbione> infinity: so we will need to drive him a bit but i am sure he will do a great job
[04:26] <zakame> infinity: LOL!
[04:26] <zakame> fabbione: thanks! :)
[04:26] <bddebian> Hmm
[04:26] <lifeless> gnight
[04:26] <infinity> Oh, and anything that even vaguely mentions "mesa", I suspect you two should just leave to me, since we're forked so far from Debian it hurts.
[04:26] <fabbione> lifeless: night
[04:26] <infinity> I'll try to sort it all out early on.
[04:27] <zakame> gn8 lifeless
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: we will need a new mesa from upstream anyway
[04:27] <bddebian> gnight lifeless
[04:27] <infinity> Yeah, but the packaging is horibly forked, I mean.
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: otherwise a lot of features in 7.1 will be null
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: yeah that too
[04:27] <infinity> I'll have to mangle the packaging a bit before we bump to new upstream.
[04:27] <lifeless> ~
[04:27] <infinity> (And get some mangling fixes back into Debian while I'm at it)
[04:27] <fabbione> infinity: we can work in parallel to get all the pkging sorted and later we bump upstream
[04:28] <infinity> That sounds ideal ot me.
[04:28] <infinity> to, as well.
[04:28] <bddebian> And fix xmkmf too? :-)
[04:28] <fabbione> infinity: you and I can do protos, libs and drivers/server and zakame can start stretching his wings on the apps that have less disaster impact
[04:28] <infinity> fabbione / zakame: When we do this, I'll want us to keep a running list of everywhere where our packaging is forked (not patches, but hacks we need to make in debian/control for smooth transitions, that sort of thing)
[04:28] <zakame> bddebian: yeah! I remember that Xp6 dependency bug again...
[04:29] <infinity> fabbione / zakame: I can then take that list and try to get all our hacks back into Debian as well.
[04:29] <bddebian> zakame: :-)
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: i think while we do the batch work we should sit in a quiet irc channel and track everything
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: patches and packaging
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: get daniels to commit patches and you to push pkging
[04:30] <bddebian> I suppose asking if I could provide any help would be fruitless?
[04:30] <infinity> I'll happily invite vorlon, gravity, and daniels to idle in that same channel, so they can pipe up if something seems "not right" from their end.
[04:30] <fabbione> bddebian: how much do you know about X?
[04:30] <infinity> (Or just ignore us entirely, their choice)
[04:30] <fabbione> infinity: yup i agree
[04:30] <fabbione> bddebian: zakame has been learning just how to build X for the past 2 weeks to be able to help..
[04:31] <zakame> fabbione / infinity: ok!  I'll add that to the list :D
[04:31] <fabbione> bddebian: and this transition has to go very fast in.
[04:31] <bddebian> fabbione: Not as much as I would like to
[04:31] <fabbione> infinity: zakame is preparing a schema to track a bunch of data already
[04:31] <fabbione> infinity: on my input..
[04:31] <fabbione> infinity: i am sure he can add more since he got it written down already
[04:31] <infinity> fabbione: We have some small things to transition to get back in sync (Debian chose a more FHS-compliant font directory scheme than Daniel originally did, for instance), but most of it looks pretty smooth.
[04:32] <zakame> yeah, I remember already putting down the x11-proto libs in pastebin
[04:32] <fabbione> bddebian: i am sorry but X is a commitment that i am not going to give out to sporadic help. It's a "package" that requires dedication and constant attention
[04:32] <fabbione> bddebian: and to several degree also a deep knowledge
[04:33] <zakame> I'll be putting the list up on tiber once they're done (which is very very soon :D)
[04:33] <fabbione> bddebian: if you are keen to learn good, but sporadic will get you nowhere
[04:33] <ogra> btw, was there a final decisio if we upgrade nvidia drivers before release ?
[04:34] <bddebian> fabbione: No problem.  Offer stands if I can do anything.  ANd yes I would learn but I seem to irritate you for some reason. :-)
[04:34] <mvo> mdz: permission to upload a update gnome-app-install? updated desktop files and two (small) fixes?
[04:34] <zul> bddebian, iritating fabbione is fun though :)
[04:34] <fabbione> bddebian: eh??? no it's nothing like that.. i need people with commitment.. if you are keen to learn I am glad for you to join the team
[04:35] <fabbione> bddebian: what i am asking you is to think about it before you offer for something that's pretty big and time consuming
[04:36] <bddebian> Well the only reservation I would have is that we seem to keep losing good people from Universe to main. :-(
[04:37] <bddebian> Not that I'm "good" per se, but I hit a lot of packages for Universe
[04:37] <fabbione> zul: shusshhh'
[04:38] <zakame> hehe
[04:40] <bddebian> Err silence even
[04:43] <pitti> mvo: ah, just reading your u-m changelog. thanks for fixing the removal of obsolete packages
[04:44] <pitti> mvo: do you have any idea about the missing l-support-en?
[04:44] <mvo> pitti: cheers, thanks for spotting it in the first place
[04:44] <mvo> pitti: I suspect a dependency problem in OOo, but i need to investigate
[04:52] <infinity> What's this about OOo dependency issues?
[04:52] <infinity> This doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I just noticed (like 10 minutes ago) that openoffice.org Conflict with openoffice.org2 (unversioned), while the latter depends on the former?
[04:53] <infinity> I wish I'd noticed that YESTERDAY, so I didn't have to upload again to fix that upgrade path... *sigh*
[04:55] <mvo> infinity: one of the language support things, its only a theory now, not a known fact
[04:55] <infinity> mvo: Oh, so a different bug.  Great.
[04:56] <infinity> mvo: I need to upload OOo again for the above, so can you find out for me if it's also buggy in some other way, so I don't have to upload twice? :/
[04:56] <mvo> infinity: ok, I'll invetigate now
[04:57] <doko_> infinity: please wait with the next OOo upload; have to fix an upgrade error as well
[05:00] <infinity> doko_: You mean other than this "can't upgrade from breezy at all" error? :)
[05:00] <doko_> infinity: yes
[05:01] <infinity> doko_: Mmkay.
[05:02] <Kamion> Seveas: please do not mark ubiquity bugs as duplicates; you're getting it wrong
[05:02] <Kamion> Seveas: (there are multiple reasons why the bugs you're marking as duplicates might appear)
[05:02] <Kamion> Seveas: please leave ubiquity bugs to me
[05:03] <Kamion> (at least, you're potentially getting it wrong; from the evidence, there is insufficient proof)
[05:06] <Riddell> thank fabbione
[05:06] <ogra> fabbione, is there any equivalent to IgnoreEDID in the nv driver ?
[05:07] <fabbione> man nv
[05:07] <ogra> seems i cant get widescreen resolutions at all with nv ...
[05:07] <ogra> only nvidia works
[05:07] <ogra> fabbione, enjoy ! :)
[05:08] <Riddell> carlos, jordi: here's a fun thread for you http://lists.kde.org/?t=114872530400008&r=1&w=2
[05:09] <Seveas> Kamion, sorry, I thought I only picked exact duplicate traces
[05:10] <infinity> doko_: Can you push your fix to me ASAP?  As soon as mdz gives me an okay on this, I want to get it up and built so the buildds and archive have settle before eveyone gets back to work on Monday.
[05:10] <Seveas> I wouldn't dare touch ubiquity bugs except exact duplicates
[05:10] <Diskdoc> Testing out the RC Desktop-CD. Now partitioning in expert mode - where are the raid options?
[05:10] <infinity> mdz: Ping.
[05:10] <doko_> infinity: sure, let me do this tonight, have to go shopping now
[05:11] <infinity> doko_: Okay, I have to sleep soon anyway, but I'll be hoping to see it in my INBOX when I wake up. :)
[05:12] <doko_> infinity: sleep well ... and long ... ;-P
[05:12] <mdz> infinity: pong
[05:12] <mdz> what's up?
[05:12] <infinity> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html
[05:12] <mdz> mvo: diff for g-a-i update?
[05:12] <infinity> mdz: As it turns out, those uninstallables aren't an archive problem (as we suspected, and thus did nothing about), but rather broken unversioned conflicts between openoffice.org-* and openoffice.org2-*
[05:13] <mdz> infinity: the oo.o2 thing? that's been there for ages
[05:13] <mdz> aha
[05:13] <infinity> mdz: Permission to upload (yet again, yay!) to fix that, so upgrade without ubuntu-desktop installed won't explode? :)
[05:13] <mdz> infinity: yes...whichever of you or doko makes the fix, the other should eyeball it before building
[05:14] <mdz> infinity: going to take fabio out for a drink; please SMS at the number in the wiki and let me know how it turns out
[05:14] <infinity> mdz: I'll test it locally too, to make sure I get it right the first time.
[05:14] <infinity> mdz: The upload will be in ~10-12 hours, no need to SMS you.  (I need to sleep, and doko's sitting on another upgrade fix too)
[05:15] <infinity> mdz: Happy drinking.
[05:17] <zakame> ~[6~[6~/wind 2
[05:17] <jordi> Riddell: fantastic
[05:18] <sladen> mdz: I've sent a fix to 'acpid' to the queue to stop it shutting down after displaying the logout dialogue in GNOME
[05:21] <mvo> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/gnome-app-install_0.1.32.debdiff (is big because of the desktop file updates)
[05:28] <_ion> Bug #46935
[05:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46935 in linux-meta "System hangs when using ltserial, ltmodem, /dev/ttyLTM0" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46935
[05:32] <Riddell> jordi: are there any long term plans to sync translations between rosetta and upstreams?
[05:32] <tsdgeos> Riddell: jordi is gone
[05:32] <tsdgeos> or he lied me :D
[05:32] <mdke> Riddell: if the upstream uses rosetta, then the answer is yes
[05:32] <mdke> Riddell: if you're talking about Ubuntu translations in rosetta, the answer is no, as far as I know.
[05:32] <mdke> (translators need to forward their stuff)
[05:33] <jordi> ok I will be killed by the gf
[05:33] <jordi> Riddell: there's a midterm plan to import KDE and GNOME SVN and only the KDE translators and GNOME translators members will be able to translate
[05:33] <jordi> that, and translation multicasting will ease the problem
[05:33] <jordi> but I *really* need to disappear now
[05:34] <mdke> have fun jordi
[05:34] <Riddell> thanks jordi
[05:38] <green-mouse> Hi, what is ubuntu politics about including kernel paches in to "official" kernel image... I have laptop with centario proccesor, and cpufreq dont`t work without some paches... this is possible to include this pach to official kernel?
[05:39] <infinity> green-mouse: We have plenty of patches for centrino cpufreq stuff.  Which cpu specifically doesn't work with out kernel?
[05:41] <green-mouse> infinity, model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.73GHz
[05:41] <green-mouse> infinity, i use linux-phc-0.2.4 patch...
[05:42] <infinity> green-mouse: Have you actually tried our kernel (apt-get install linux-686) in dapper, with the powernowd also in dapper?  It should work fine.
[05:42] <green-mouse> infinity, i use dapper
[05:43] <green-mouse> infinity, i have linux-686 package installed...
[05:43] <carlos> Riddell: About the German translators... it was due the missing translations we got becuase the problem with kde-i18n-de package
[05:43] <carlos> Riddell: Ubuntu translators already asked me to revert the modifications and move them back to KDE ones
[05:44] <carlos> Riddell: but I hadn't time to do that yet
[05:44] <green-mouse> infinity, Linux green-mouse-laptop 2.6.15-23-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue May 23 14:03:07 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[05:45] <green-mouse> infinity, and cpufreq works only after patch applying...
[05:45] <mjg59> green-mouse: What patch?
[05:45] <mvo_> pitti has left the building?
[05:46] <green-mouse> mjg59, linux-phc-0.2.4 patch...
[05:46] <infinity> green-mouse: Okay, PHC isn't the same thing as the kernel's generic cpufreq interface (thoug it hooks into it, it looks like)
[05:46] <mjg59> green-mouse: Where can we find that?
[05:46] <infinity> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=161063
[05:46] <mjg59> And how are you trying to control the cpu frequency?
[05:46] <infinity> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Undervolt_a_Pentium_M_CPU
[05:46] <infinity> mjg59: ^^^^
[05:46] <mjg59> Oh. So crack.
[05:46] <green-mouse> mjg59, http://linux-phc.sourceforge.net/
[05:46] <infinity> Yeah, it's completely orthogonal to the cpufreq support we ship that SHOULD work on his CPU.
[05:46] <mjg59> That's not cpufreq
[05:47] <sladen> green-mouse: do you have busted ACPI on your machine?
[05:47] <green-mouse> sladen, yes
[05:47] <infinity> green-mouse: That's a tweaker's interface for {under,over}volting and {under,over}clocking, not the same as plain old cpufreq.
[05:47] <Robot101> mjg59: not at the fest'o'beer?
[05:47] <sladen> green-mouse: the only reason for overriding a power/voltage scaling table is if the table supplied by the ACPI BIOS is incorrect
[05:48] <sladen> green-mouse: right, so the actual problem is another one.
[05:48] <sladen> green-mouse: in which case, $lots of other stuff probably doesn't work on your machine either
[05:48] <green-mouse> infinity, ok... maybe cpufreq broken in ubuntu kernel....
[05:48] <green-mouse> i appyd this path on vanilla kernel...
[05:49] <ogra> green-mouse, sladen just explained it to you ... it has nothing at all to do with cpufreq
[05:50] <sladen> green-mouse: so, what you're doing is adding an override for your CPU (with incorrect voltages, but which are close-enough that they might work)
[05:50] <green-mouse> ok... in ubuntu kernel: modprobe speedstep-centrino
[05:50] <green-mouse> FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_centrino (/lib/modules/2.6.15-23-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-centrino.ko): Invalid module format
[05:50] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ lsmod | grep speedstep
[05:50] <infinity> speedstep_centrino      8752  1
[05:50] <infinity> freq_table              4928  2 speedstep_centrino,cpufreq_stats
[05:50] <infinity> processor              26344  2 speedstep_centrino,thermal
[05:50] <sladen> green-mouse: yes.  Dude, it gets the voltage/scaling pairs from ACPI.  Your ACPI is busted.  There are no voltage/scaling pairs to use, so it bombs.
[05:50] <infinity> Works here (obviously)
[05:51] <infinity> "Invalid module format" is a pretty iffy way to fail, though.
[05:51] <sladen> green-mouse: please can you file a bug against 'acpi-support' and we'll debug a solution for you there
[05:51] <ogra> infinity, <green-mouse> i appyd this path on vanilla kernel...
[05:51] <ogra> green-mouse, are you currently running that patched kernel ?
[05:51] <sladen> infinity: valid point... that *is* an interesting error message
[05:52] <green-mouse> ogra, not
[05:52] <green-mouse> ogra, now this is ubuntu kernel
[05:52] <infinity> sladen / mjg59 : Do we have a HOWTO anywhere for hacking /etc/mkinitramfs/DSDT.aml for people with ACPI issues?
[05:52] <infinity> That's likely what this dude needs.
[05:53] <sladen> infinity: I don't think so.  Could really do with one, rather than sending people off to the Gentoo documentation
[05:53] <infinity> I didn't say the HOWTO had to be OURS.  Just any HOWTO will do. :)
[05:53] <infinity> (Though our own would be nice)
[05:54] <sladen> infinity: which (while fixing it admittedly) also included a respray, aerofoils, go faster strips and alloy hub caps
[05:55] <green-mouse> ok, from there we start? Have centario CPU and speedstep not work for me.... what infomation you need to debug this problem?
[05:55] <sladen> infinity: the acpi.sf.net one;  but most of that still encourages people to patch their kernel, concat onto initrd.gz ... rather than copying it into /etc/mkinitramfs/
[05:56] <sladen> green-mouse: launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+filebug
[05:56] <sladen> green-mouse: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+filebug
[05:56] <green-mouse> sladen, ok
[05:56] <infinity> sladen: Yeah, some of our own user-contributed documentation is that bad too. :/  Have you seen the people who will post "I only had to add this [block of 30 options]  to xorg.conf to make my card work!" when all they really needed was one of those changes?
[05:56] <green-mouse> sladen, thenks\
[05:56] <mjg59> Uh?
[05:56] <mjg59> Invalid module format is unlikely to be it bombing out
[05:56] <HiddenWolf> infinity: or worse, compiling stuff when there are packages in the people. repositories
[05:56] <mjg59> What does dmesg say?
[05:57] <mjg59> sladen: Christ no. If there's a bug here, it's in the kernel, not acpi-support
[05:57] <ogra> Riddell, do you list related projects on kubuntu.org like we do in edubuntu.org ? (and especially do you list xubuntu there ?)
[05:57] <infinity> Is anyone else runinng a -386 kernel (I'm booted to -686 right now) who can confirm that that module loads?
[05:58] <mjg59> green-mouse: After trying modprobe speedstep-centrino, could you please provide the output of the dmesg command?
[05:58] <mjg59> Put it on pastebin rather than pasting it here
[05:58] <sladen> mjg59: yes, it needs a generic 'powermanagement' but to assign things to before they get debugged
[05:58] <ogra> infinity, sorry running -386 on amd64 here
[05:58] <green-mouse> mjg59, ok i post this in my bugreport...
[05:58] <mjg59> sladen: If a kernel driver doesn't work, it's a kernel bug
[05:59] <mjg59> green-mouse: Ok, give me the bug number once you've got it
[05:59] <green-mouse> mjg59, ok
[06:00] <infinity> ogra: modprobe that module, then.
[06:00] <infinity> ogra: Doesn't need to DO anything, just want to see if it loads without "invalid module format", which is... Odd.
[06:01] <ogra> ok
[06:01] <ogra> infinity, a nice "no such device" here
[06:01] <ogra> as it should be
[06:02] <infinity> ogra: Okay, good.
[06:03] <darius_> I just installed Dapper RC1 fresh.  Then tried to install ntp-server but the /etc/init.d/ntp-server script is looking for an 'ntp' user that was never created on the system.    I have a bug report about that.
[06:05] <infinity> darius_: try "export LANG=C ; apt-get install ntp-server"
[06:06] <darius_> infinity: actually, it came up because I was trying to have it regularly check an ntp server (via the Time Setting gui interface) which trigger an install, but the install fails
[06:07] <darius_> infinity: that didn't resolve it
[06:07] <infinity> darius_: Oh, you'll have to purge it first.
[06:07] <darius_> I just did an apt-get install ntp-simple from the command line and it fixed it on one machine
[06:07] <infinity> "apt-get --purge remove ntp-server"
[06:07] <infinity> Then "LANG=C apt-get install ntp-server"
[06:08] <darius_> inifity: nope, I still got the error using that method
[06:09] <infinity> Hrm.
[06:09] <darius_> apt-get install ntp-simple did create the ntp user
[06:09] <darius_> which resolves my problem .. but I think that leaves a problem for people trying to directly install ntp-server
[06:09] <infinity> Well, yeah, but ntp-server depends on ntp-simple.
[06:11] <infinity> Oh, feh.  I see the problem.
[06:11] <darius_> actually, seems it will be a problem for everyone using the GUI
[06:11] <infinity> No, it's a problem for everyone, period.  And has nothing to do with LANG, that was a red herring in a confused bug.
[06:11] <infinity> Grr.
[06:12] <Kamion> Seveas: unfortunately "RuntimeError: Install failed with exit code 1" requires more information; the actual trace is buried in syslog
[06:12] <infinity> darius_: The problem is simple that ntp-server's postinst tries to restart, when it shouldn't (because it doesn't creat the user, nor contain the daemon, ntp-simple does)
[06:13] <Seveas> Kamion, ah ok
[06:13] <Seveas> Sorry again, will ask reporters for logs in the future
[06:14] <Seveas> do you want me to undo my actions?
[06:14] <Kamion> (so I added text to the crash dialog to ask people to attach syslog and partman, but about 50% of people seem to be ignoring that)
[06:14] <Kamion> Seveas: yes please, otherwise I'll do it later
[06:14] <Seveas> I'm on it
[06:15] <Kamion> cheers
[06:15] <darius_> I love being able to report an issue and *bham* someone is fixing it.  This is crazy.  I think Ubuntu will give Windows significant trouble in the near future
[06:15] <bgertzfield> darius_: well come. :)
[06:15] <Kamion> I honestly don't mind setting duplicate markings myself anyway - it helps me get an impression of which issues are most urgent
[06:17] <darius_> I only wish hardware manufacturers were more support .. but I imagine it's coming.  I recently saw a request for quote go to a vendor and the requestor demanded that only hardware with linux open source drivers be provided
[06:19] <mdz> mvo: +                    if it.Component != "" and it.Component == "universe": ?
[06:20] <ogra> does that only pull from it.a.u.c then ?
[06:21] <bgertzfield> darius_: coming from both the open-source and corporate worlds, hardware manufacturers will support software only when there's a lot of money to be made
[06:21] <bgertzfield> or they have an ulterior motive (spreading goodwill among a great community, like the linux folks)
[06:23] <darius_> bgertzfield: yeah, but if there's at least one manufacturer that has good support and competitive products then the rest start losing business.  This was a purchase for $50k, you can bet the distributor was willing to hunt for the right hardware
[06:24] <bgertzfield> sure. it takes a long, long time for manufacturers to realize why they're losing business tho
[06:24] <darius_> bgertzfield: plus, it would be nice if manufacturers created and released drivers but the biggest problem is manufacturers just not opening up their interface so that someone else could create drivers
[06:25] <bgertzfield> no, it's more that they never wrote down the interface in the first place ;) trust me
[06:25] <darius_> ah :)
[06:25] <bgertzfield> usually the drivers are cobbled together at the last minute
[06:25] <infinity> mdz: Aren't you supposed to be out buying drinks?
[06:25] <ogra> yeah
[06:25] <bgertzfield> yeah! celebration time
[06:26] <darius_> half the ubuntu laptop install I make don't work out-of-the-box for the wireless networking.  This is so grueling.
[06:27] <sladen> darius_: which wireless cards?
[06:27] <darius_> broadcom, and some ipw2200 or whatever
[06:27] <Riddell> ogra: not at the moment
[06:27] <infinity> mdz: Since you don't appear to actually be out at all, can you approve this one for me? http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/ntp.debdiff
[06:27] <darius_> many Dell latops, some HP - though I think HP is getting better
[06:27] <ogra> Riddell, you mean you dont list any at the moment or you dont list xubuntu at the moment ?
[06:27] <mdz> infinity: I have been out and back
[06:27] <Riddell> ogra: just Ubuntu is listed
[06:28] <ogra> ah, k
[06:28] <infinity> mdz: darius hilighted it above, and looking at it, I'm not sure how this has ever worked for anyone.  Since we expose "apt-get install ntp-server" in the Time and Date gui, it seems pretty RC to me.
[06:29] <infinity> mdz: Note that for minimum impact, I just copied the ntp-simple postinst wholesale (except for the runinng of the init script, since dh_installinit gives ntp-server that for free)
[06:29] <darius_> I don't know if I've ever been able to install a Dell laptop w/ wireless support out of the box.  Really makes me hate their product :)
[06:29] <mdz> infinity: was about to ask if you did that
[06:29] <mdz> infinity: if so, fine
[06:30] <infinity> mdz: Kay, cool.  Uploading.
[06:30] <darius_> I'm sure Dell will come around eventually .. in 10 years - they finally started using AMD afterall :)
[06:33] <darius_> Does anyone know if the /sys/module/processor/parameters/max_cstate misreporting of CPU load issue will be fixed before release?
[06:33] <Kamion> Seveas: also, /var/log/partman, not /var/log/installer/partman
[06:35] <darius_> The bug report was finally confirmed but we're at RC already.  It seems to affect a wide range of laptops (that worked with 5.10)
[06:36] <sladen> darius_: what bug number?
[06:36] <darius_> 30557
[06:37] <darius_> I don't really understand what it is but it hit by nc6230 after upgrading to Dapper
[06:38] <green-mouse> mjg59, Bug #46952....
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46952 in acpi-support "cpufreq don`t work on centrino CPU in  "dapper" (kernel: linux-image-2.6.15-23-686)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46952
[06:38] <glatzor> hi Riddell. do you remember the missing translations issue for kde some time ago?
[06:38] <infinity> darius_: ntp bug confirmed, fixed, tested locally, and uploaded.  Thanks for the reminder. :/
[06:38] <glatzor> Riddell: there seems to be the same issue for koffice
[06:39] <darius_> infinity: awesome.  Thank you
[06:42] <sladen> mjg59: bug #30557 seems to be caused by a patch for ACPI C-states
[06:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30557 in linux-source-2.6.15 "cpu idle time in /proc/stat wrong" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30557
[06:44] <hunt0r> hi all
[06:45] <hunt0r> how can I prevent the bootstrap system from the live cd to load module?
[06:46] <sladen> hunt0r: what module?
[06:47] <hunt0r> cs
[06:48] <hunt0r> ok fcpcmcia_cs.ko ok something like this
[06:49] <hunt0r> wehen I try to boot it just says cs: io port probe and dies
[07:01] <Riddell> glatzor: carlospc was saying he'll fix it
[07:04] <glatzor> Riddell: yes for kde. but I noticed that this issue also applies to koffice
[07:04] <glatzor> I did not notice...
[07:05] <glatzor> Riddell: the leader of the German koffice translation team contacted me on IRC some minutes ago
[07:06] <glatzor> Riddell: carlospc: applying the script of carlospc also to koffice would require a fresh upload of koffice?
[07:06] <glatzor> Riddell: are there any string changes by you in the koffice package?
[07:07] <sladen> hunt0r: how are you going to blacklist it if you don't know what module it is?
[07:07] <glatzor> otherwise I would upload the current German translations of the kde team, since they are at 100%
[07:07] <Riddell> glatzor: there's no kubuntu string changes in koffice
[07:12] <glatzor> Riddell: to overwrite the Rosetta translation I have to do a "user upload", right?
[07:14] <hunt0r> sladen: well I thought it the name is cs.ko becouse it says cs: blabla but maybe it has a slightly different name
[07:15] <Riddell> glatzor: I don't know I'm afraid, but that sounds like it would do it
[07:15] <glatzor> Riddell: Ok. 32 po files :/
[07:21] <infinity> sfllaw: When you're around, can you check bug #46935?
[07:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46935 in wvdial "System hangs when using ltserial, ltmodem, /dev/ttyLTM0" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46935
[07:22] <ogra> infinity, he was on it  yesterday already, if i didnt read wrong here
[07:22] <infinity> ogra: Ahh, I see nothing from him in the bug log (and he wasn't subscribed until I added him), so I just wanted insurance. :)
[07:23] <ogra> i only saw him poking on ltserial and ltmodem, probably it was a dup or something
[07:23] <infinity> Could well be.
[07:24] <infinity> Oh, yes.  Looking closely, there are several dupes of this one.
[07:25] <HiddenWolf> has dinner, I hope. :)
[07:26] <ogra> that too :)
[07:33] <infinity> sfllaw: Nevermind, I see that you're all over a dupe of the same bug.
[07:41] <glatzor> Riddell: did you need to reupload kde to solve the issue last time?
[07:41] <Riddell> glatzor: I needed to upload the kde-i8n-de package, for some reason it was out of date
[07:44] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: ok to upload new example-content? fixes bug 46713 (ubuntu Sax.ogg ends abruptly, heno has a new version of it)
[07:46] <Kamion> dholbach: yes
[07:46] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: sorry, the bug I meant is bug 46842
[07:46] <dholbach> Kamion: merci beaucoup
[07:46] <Kamion> de rien
[07:46] <dholbach> LP is the problem, not Ubugtu.
[07:47] <ogra> ah. still ?
[07:47] <ogra> dholbach, nice to see youre not injured
[07:47] <dholbach> ogra: injured?
[07:48] <ogra> you dont watch/read the news ?
[07:48] <dholbach> ogra: you mean because of that news story about that Berlin Amok run?
[07:48] <ogra> yep
[07:48] <dholbach> Oh man
[07:48] <ogra> yep :/
[07:48] <HiddenWolf> Heh, I'd run amok too if some loon started stabbing people at random.
[07:49] <dholbach> Of course I'm not injured - as sad as the story is: Berlin is not a place where you have to fight for survival every day - as much as the media is working on that image
[07:49] <dholbach> spiegel ahead of all of them
[07:50] <ogra> heh, yes, i know
[07:50] <dholbach> but oh well, I better stop complaining
[08:41] <infinity> dholbach: BTW, you uploaded kooldock, which was FTBFS on all arches, due to an empty .po file.
[08:41] <dholbach> infinity: i'll have alook, might be one of the AptGetOrg thingies, which built when I tested it (7-8 weeks ago)
[08:42] <infinity> dholbach: But I'm betting you didn't test with pkgstriptranslations installed and in nazi mode. :)
[08:42] <dholbach> infinity: no, not really :)
[09:09] <glatzor> Riddell: it seems to be that the koffice 1.4 po files are used in rosetta
[09:10] <glatzor> the number of strings (translated and untranslated) in the 1.5 po file and the rosetta po file differs by 300
[09:10] <glatzor> for the kexi template only
[09:28] <mroth> hmm.. should the new sun-java-jre in multiverse update /etc/alternatives/java to point to the sun version instead of gij?  doesnt seem to be doing so currently
[11:11] <zyga> hello
[11:12] <pygi> hey zyga
[11:13] <glick> hmm dapper for some reason i no longer automounts my external firewire drive when i plug it in
[11:15] <ssam> glick, mine mount ok, anything interesting in dmesg
[11:17] <glick> hey is there a reason why dapper now no longer auto mounts my firewire drive?
[11:17] <glick> it did it once
[11:45] <Induane> hey all is anyone here expirenced with zenity? it seems no one in the main ubuntu and ubuntu+1 channels is.
[11:45] <Induane> thus I come seeking the genius of this channel
[11:47] <glick> yeah it seems like pmount is screwy in dapper rc1
[11:48] <mdke> glick: searching for and then filing a bug might be in order
[11:49] <glick> mdke: where do i do that?
[11:49] <mdke> glick: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[11:54] <glick> mdke: when registering should i allow people to see my email or will i be spammed to kingdom come if i do that?
[11:55] <mdke> glick: it is safe to allow it, I think
[11:55] <glick> mdke: only registered people will be able to see it right?
[11:56] <mdke> glick: i believe so. #launchpad can tell you more
[12:02] <glick> ok sweet i submitted it
[12:03] <glick> damn guess ill have to wait a while to access my firewire drive data :(