[02:05] <daedra> wow this site exists
[02:05] <daedra> i mean... channel (now I look stupid)
[02:40] <darkduelist> holas
[06:10] <squidman33> exit
[12:29] <Gaming1> What is this room for?
[12:30] <savvas> for gaming
[12:31] <savvas> Gaming1: /topic and /join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[16:21] <TheSheep> here :)
[16:21] <keithcleaveruk> yeah
[16:21] <TheSheep> Hello, I will try and talk about Xubuntu
[16:22] <TheSheep> My name is Radomir Dopieralski and I'm a xubuntu user since Dapper
[16:22] <popey> TheSheep:  you here in place of Cody?
[16:22] <TheSheep> popey: seems so, at least until Cody shows up, I don't know what happened
[16:22] <TheSheep> popey: this is a little improvised
[16:22] <TheSheep> popey: is this ok?
[16:23] <popey> well it would be nice to get hold of cody of course
[16:23] <TheSheep> I will step down as soon as he appears
[16:24] <popey> it's fine by me
[16:25] <TheSheep> As you might already all know, Xubuntu is an Ubuntu derivative, with GNOME environment replaced with XFCE
[16:26] <TheSheep> It shares the Ubuntu repositories and most of its core, so the main difference is a different set of default applications and different default settings
[16:27] <TheSheep> The applications were chosen to make the desktop still as useful and powerful as possible, while limiting the memory footprint and keeping everything fast.
[16:27] <TheSheep> So, for example, we have Abiword and Gnumerica instead of Openoffice
[16:28] <TheSheep> GQview instead of gThumb
[16:28] <TheSheep> the general rule of thumb is that we prefer GTK applications that don't have GNOME dependencies
[16:29] <TheSheep> although Xubuntu also includes some applications with GNOME dependencies stripped entirely or reduced to minimum
[16:30] <TheSheep> These applications have a -gtk suffix added in the repositories
[16:31] <TheSheep> As you can see, Xubuntu is a nice thing to use if you have older hardware
[16:31] <TheSheep> But it's also very good for people who just don't like to waste memory or cpu power on bells and whistles
[16:32] <TheSheep> Many xubuntu users use it on computers that could easily run Ubuntu
 QUESTION: is the web browser still Firefox?
[16:34] <TheSheep> picard_pwns_kirk: yes, we still use Firefox
 QUESTION: I don't know if you can answer this one, but is the plan to do future releases at the same time as the regular Ubuntu?
[16:35] <TheSheep> keithcleaveruk: so far the releases were synchronized with Ubuntu, with maybe a day of delay, but I'm not sure about the current plans
 QUESTION: Is there a list of Xubuntu-prefered applications available somewhere?
[16:36] <TheSheep> Lardarse: for the current, up-to-date list, just check the dependencies of the xubuntu-desktop package
[16:37] <TheSheep> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/metapackages/xubuntu-desktop
[16:37] <mzungu> vinze: not really an answer to my question - we have lots of old hardware here in africa - even 486 pcs
[16:38] <TheSheep>  < mzungu> QUESTION: what would be the minimum hardware specs to
[16:38] <TheSheep>                 comfortablr run Xubuntu?
[16:38] <vinze> Lardarse, the default packages are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/gutsy/release/xubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.manifest
[16:39] <TheSheep> mzungu: a pentium class processor seems to be a must, and at least 64MB of ram to even get this running. Personally I was running a stripped-down xubuntu on P90 and 96MB ram
[16:39] <TheSheep> mzungu: it wasn't comfortable, but it was possible to get the work done
 QUESTION: Would this be something you could run on a Crusoe processor or even an ARM processor?  What's the smallest form of computer on which Xubuntu can run?  Are there any embedded Xubuntu machines?
[16:40] <mzungu> ok - so a 166 pentium 1 with 64mb is ok?
[16:42] <TheSheep> Xubuntu is not really a perfectly streamlined, light ditribution for very old hardware -- there are much better distributions for that. Xubuntu tries to strike a balance between user-friendliness and lightness.
[16:43] <TheSheep> desertc: I don't know about architectures like ARM, my guess is xubuntu may be too heavy for them.
[16:44] <TheSheep> Xubuntu can be easily further stripped down, the cups and hplip daemons disabled, screen resolution lowered, many services removed
[16:44] <TheSheep> However, at some point you really need to recompile the kernel
[16:45] <TheSheep> This xubuntu doesn't do by default
[16:45] <TheSheep> < desertc> QUESTION: Are there some situations where you've seen Xubuntu  where you thought it was especially well suited?
[16:45] <TheSheep> desertc: my desktop :)
 QUESTION: Xubuntu is just regular Ubuntu with different apps and a different window manager, right?
[16:46] <TheSheep> desertc: but seriously, we use it in our computer laboratories on the university, over 300 workstations
[16:46] <TheSheep> desertc: we have mixed hardware, but all the workstations must have the same software -- so xubuntu fits here nicely
[16:46] <vinze> desertc, also, it's very well suited to run from a USB drive due to its lightness
[16:47] <TheSheep> desertc: xfce has also some buildin kiosk functionalities, so you can use it for setups where the users are not supposed to be playing with settings
[16:48] <TheSheep> picard_pwns_kirk: mostly yes, we also have different default settings, so there are differences in what services start, etc.
[16:48] <TheSheep> picard_pwns_kirk: but the core is the same
[16:49] <TheSheep> picard_pwns_kirk: in particular, it's possible to make Xubuntu from Ubuntu manually, by just isntalling some packages and changin some settings
[16:50] <TheSheep> About the future plans of Xubuntu
[16:50] <TheSheep> I don't know the absolutely current status, I've heard Jani is stepping back, but I don't want to spread rumors
[16:50] <vinze> TheSheep, that's correct
[16:50] <TheSheep> I can tell about the plans from several months ago
[16:51] <vinze> Lionel (mr_pouit) is the new lead dev I believe
[16:51] <TheSheep> Gutsy includes some more GNOME dependencies than Feisty did
[16:51] <TheSheep> in particular, on gnome-vfs
[16:51] <TheSheep> the decission was made because these libraries are not really so heavy in gnome
[16:52] <TheSheep> and becuase "removing dependencies" on them would mostly consists of copy-pasting code from them
[16:52] <TheSheep> they are pretty straightforward
[16:53] <TheSheep> we are looking forward to the gvfs library, I hope some dependencies can be easily resolved when it's out
[16:54] <TheSheep> I think the worst problem so far is that we don't have a working and maintained cd burning application
[16:54] <TheSheep> Gutsy includes GNOME's Brasero
[16:56] <TheSheep> We also don't have such excellent documentation, although most of the howtos and docs work in xubuntu the same as in GNOME
[16:56] <TheSheep> On the plus side, the help channel is much less busy, so it's much easier to get help tehre
[16:56] <TheSheep> there
[16:57] <TheSheep> We are always looking for people willing to help.
[16:58] <TheSheep> Programmers who know GTK and can 'strip the deps' are of course very needed, but the distrubution always needs more hands to help
[16:58] <TheSheep> We need people to package applications (especially ones not included in Ubuntu)
[16:58] <TheSheep> and to maintain them.
[16:59] <TheSheep> We need people to triage bugs and write documentation
[17:00] <TheSheep> We are much smaller group than the ubuntu dev team, so there are definitely more opportunities to do something really cool
[17:00] <TheSheep> plus, the xfce environment is really well designed and sleek, so it's a pleasure to work with it.
[17:01] <popey> thanks very much TheSheep for stepping in!
[17:01] <TheSheep> to reasume, I think that Xubuntu is definitely worth a try for everyone. It's different from gnome or kde, but people who like it, like it very much.
[17:02] <TheSheep> Thank you everyone for you attention
[17:02] <vinze> Thanks TheSheep
[17:02]  * popey cheers for TheSheep
[17:02] <keithcleaveruk> /,e seconds popey
[17:02] <keithcleaveruk> */me
[17:02] <BonesolTeraDyne> TheSheep, you deserve a medal for making it through this talk as well as you did.
[17:03] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Open Week Session on the Ubuntu Women Project!
[17:03] <pleia2> I am Elizabeth Bevilacqua. I currently work as a Debian (and now some Kubuntu!) SysAdmin for a small Linux firm outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in the United States.
[17:03] <pleia2> Aside from Ubuntu Women work, I'm currently heavily involved with the LoCo Teams projects, specifically with my own state of Pennsylvania and the greater work of the US Teams Mentoring program. On the technical side I contribute upstream as a Debian Package Maintainer.
[17:04] <pleia2> In this session I'm going to start out by discussioning some of the frequently asked questions about the Ubuntu Women project and then will open the floor for your questions.
[17:04] <pleia2> First of all, the official website for the Ubuntu Women project is http://ubuntu-women.org. From there you can get to all our other resources, including our Mailing list, Forums, Launchpad and Wiki.
[17:04] <pleia2> I became involved in the Ubuntu Women project as soon as I found out about it in early 2006. Vidya Ayer is the founder of the project, spurred on by some unfortunate experiences within the LoCo team she was involved with.
[17:05] <pleia2> Vidya modeled the project closely after the Debian Women (http://women.debian.org) project, which many have said was quite a sucessful project, with the Debian Project now boasting several female Developers, not the mention the work of Debian Women in writing guides, developing mentoring partnerships and changing how women are treated within the project.
[17:05] <pleia2> Unlike the Debian Women project, however, the Ubuntu project does not only seek out women to contribute via development. Instead our focus is on the broader Ubuntu project, seeking to get women involved everywhere and to eventually become members and key contributors to the project.
[17:06] <pleia2> The first question I tend to get when discussing the project is "Why?" To answer this simply, there aren't a lot of women using and involved with Linux projects, and we feel strongly that more would be valuable to the project.
[17:06] <pleia2> As such, our project seeks to give an entry point for women looking to join the Ubuntu project.
[17:07] <pleia2> We provide this entry point by showing women that other women are already here (it can be intimidating to be the only woman in the room, or feel like it!), provide resources to help women get involved, and to link up women directly with the project contacts and mentors they need to successfully enter the project.
[17:08] <pleia2> The project is simply used as a springboard to get women out there in the main project, and provides a support infrastructure if problems are encountered with their involvement. So we're not trying to be a separate entity in the project, in fact...
[17:08] <pleia2> Just recently the project began to form a partnership with the Classroom project (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom) which will enable us to leave behind our separate Courses program and encourage women to contribute and lead classes and promote the classes through our various outlets.
[17:09] <pleia2> At this point you may be asking why there aren't projects for other IT minorities. There are! The Ubuntu for All project (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll) is the umbrella group under which other groups interested in equality and opportunity for minorities exist.
[17:09] <pleia2> If you feel there is a need to address a currently unaddressed minority group, please feel free to stand up and take a leadership position in making this happen.
[17:10] <pleia2> In addition to lowering the barriers of entry for women in the project, our list provides a forum to discuss issues facing women with Ubuntu and the wider Free and Open Source Software world.
[17:10] <pleia2> Sometimes heated, these discussions bring out the opinions of a variety of men and women with various backgrounds and help us address the appropriate issues with as much feedback as possible.
[17:12] <pleia2> Another question folks often have is how they can help out with the project, or with having women feel more comfortable and accepted within F/OSS itself. Our wiki page on ChallengingSexism is a nice place to start: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ChallengingSexism
[17:12] <pleia2> A couple of the best articles are:
[17:12] <pleia2> HowTo Encourage Women in Linux: http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html which might be of particular interest to LoCo teams since there are a lot of real life examples
[17:13] <pleia2> Dorothea Salo: What Some Folks Can Do, If They Choose: http://cavlec.yarinareth.net/archives/2007/03/30/what-some-folks-can-do-if-they-choose/ which discusses how men can stand up when they see sexist or other inappropriate behavior that drives people away (not just women!)
[17:13] <pleia2> I'm looking forward to a day when this project is not required, and with your help we can accomplish this!
[17:13] <pleia2> Now I want to go ahead and open the floor for questions.
 QUESTION: what do you feel is the main factor behind the gender discrepancy in IT today?
[17:15] <pleia2> Sodki: It's hard to pinpoint a main factor, but in many countries there is a history of steering women toward "softer" skills, I know first hand in the US that some women are actually /discouraged/ from following technical careers
[17:15] <Vorian> popey> QUESTION: How do you feel about the assertion that ubuntu women may well represent the views and opinion of geek women but not that of the average non-geek woman. This pre-supposes that there is a difference between those two categories (which I personally believe there is)?
[17:16] <pleia2> popey: we try to offer a balanced view within Ubuntu Women, but we really need folks to speak up so they will be heard
[17:16] <pleia2> I've actually gotten feedback telling me the opposite
[17:16] <popey> may iclarify?
[17:16] <pleia2> please do
[17:17] <popey> as a man it is difficult to make comments about ubuntu women (IMO)
[17:17] <popey> we are often seen as cleary unable to see the point from a womans side
[17:18] <pleia2> gotcha
[17:18] <popey> however I know of men who show women (in their life) who are non geeks - the stuff that ubuntu women, debian women (and other groups and individuals) put forward
[17:18] <popey> and generally the non-geek women (that I have spoken to) would say that those opinions dont match theirs
[17:18] <popey> and that they dont feel represented
[17:18] <popey> is that fair?
[17:19] <pleia2> well I want to encourage anyone who has an opinion about the direction of the project to speak up and let us know
[17:19] <svaksha> It is
[17:19] <svaksha> In India, we are not discouraged, at least i was not, to take up technical fields
[17:19] <Hobbsee> i think it'd be very hard to have a set of views that *all* women think.
[17:19] <pleia2> the direction we're going in is based on the feedback we received from each other, and if the non-geek women won't speak up, we don't know how they feel :(
[17:20] <popey> no, I'm not saying you need to represent all women
[17:20] <Hobbsee> unless it's an incredibly broad, sweeping statement.
[17:20] <popey> but that there is a distinct polarity between geek and non-geek women
[17:20] <popey> but the group is called "ubuntu women" not "ubuntu geek women"
[17:21] <pleia2> the trouble is that currently the husbands and boyfriends of "non-geek women" are the only ones speaking up
[17:21] <pleia2> it's difficult to have a discussion through a proxy
[17:21] <jedijf> i don't find there to be a difference when i poll my non-geek wife's opinions for reference in these matters
[17:21] <AidyFS> agree with popey, is your aim to have more women using ubuntu, or more women contributing to the ubuntu project?
[17:21] <svaksha> the latter
[17:22] <pleia2> of course, so I want to invite women of all perspectives to speak up and let us know what they want from the project
[17:22] <pleia2> as a geek woman, I really can't speak for them
[17:22] <AidyFS> The two are quite different fields
[17:23] <svaksha> AidyFS, the latter is the main goal
[17:23] <Vorian> Cillian> QUESTION: Is it not possible that by creating a project for only women you might be aiding the separation of them from the bulk of the community?
[17:24] <pleia2> Cillian: That's something we get often. I don't believe this is the case since we don't really have any technical projects within the Ubuntu Women project. Our work is to draw women into Ubuntu, make them feel welcome and give them the tools they need
[17:24] <pleia2> from there they go out into the wider community and contribute
[17:24] <svaksha> Cillian, its not restricted to women, rather men have been a part of UW since its inception 2 years ago.
[17:24]  * svaksha is Vidya Ayer, sorry should have introduced myself
 QUESTION: So how is the project going?  Is the mentoring progressing as you expected?  Are you finding that people are interested in participating?  What have some of the highlights for you been?
[17:25] <svaksha> our first server admin was a man
[17:25] <Cillian> So ubuntu-women is more of a woman friendly zone than a woman only zone?
[17:25] <svaksha> and even today we have a man as the list admin
[17:25] <pleia2> Cillian: yes
[17:25] <svaksha> yep
[17:25] <pleia2> desertc: it's chugging along, currently our big project is working with the Ubuntu Classroom project
[17:26] <pleia2> we used to have a Courses program, but it became increasingly obvious to us that it was a wasted effort and wasn't successful - we want to make contributions to the main project and take advantage of the courses/classes in the main proejct
[17:26] <svaksha> desertc, getting mentors to hold regular courses has been a tough task, but we are not giving up :)
[17:26] <pleia2> and people are very much still interested in participating!
[17:27] <svaksha> yes, they are
[17:28] <pleia2> I am not going to claim that some of the bigger women within the Ubuntu project are in their positions because of our work
[17:28] <pleia2> but I have started bumping into more women since the project lauched, and some have said that it was helpful to see the UW project existing
[17:28] <Hobbsee> pleia2: you'll need to repeat, i think
[17:29] <Hobbsee> oh, no, that looks right
[17:29] <pleia2> yeah I think I'm good
 QUESTION: is it just non-geek women that feel excluded? what about non-geek men?
[17:30] <pleia2> cjb_ie: I haven't really heard much from non-geek men TBH
 Q: Have there been some landmark moments for you?
[17:32] <Vorian> more
[17:32] <Vorian> desertc> QUESTION: Have there been some landmark events for you, in the project, where you felt the effort was especially effective?
[17:33] <pleia2> desertc: I think seeing the increase in women we've worked with become Members is really exciting
[17:33] <pleia2> Ubuntu Members that is
[17:33] <pleia2> in my LoCo team there are 3 Ubuntu Members, 2 of us are women :)
[17:33] <pleia2> it's encouraging to me and the rest of the team
QUESTION: What kind of relationship would you like to see between LoCo teams and Ubuntu Women?
[17:35] <pleia2> Vorian: Good question! I'd really like to see a closer relationship
[17:36] <pleia2> there has been discussion in the past of Ubuntu Women having localized chapters, but LoCo teams are really where we need to be getting involved in keeping with the aims of the project
[17:36] <pleia2> unfortunately much of the trouble encountered by women in Ubuntu is via the LoCo teams
[17:37] <pleia2> I'm wondering if it would be useful for us to write up some sort of document to help out LoCo teams, to get them to attract more women, something modeled after the HowTo Encourage Women in Linux that focuses on LUGS
[17:37]  * svaksha nods
[17:38] <pleia2> any more questions?
[17:39] <pleia2> ok, we're going to unmod the channel for some open discussion
 Q:moving forward what can we all do to attract women (geeky and non) to the community?
[17:41] <pleia2> good question
[17:41] <pleia2> first it helps to be mindful of the existance of women in the project so there is a welcome space to invite them to
[17:41] <pleia2> I know in my loco team it's very open to women participating, and that's very exciting
[17:42] <pleia2> from there just attract them like any other person to Ubuntu, find out from women you know what their interests are and tailor your presentation of Ubuntu to fit that
[17:43] <Vorian> the channel is open for discussion for the remainder of the scheduled time.
[17:44] <Cillian> Any ideas of particular things an individual can do to help?
[17:44] <jedijf> ty for the answer
[17:44] <pleia2> Cillian: http://cavlec.yarinareth.net/archives/2007/03/30/what-some-folks-can-do-if-they-choose/  <-- this link is great for that
[17:44] <Cillian> Thanks
[17:44] <pleia2> mostly what we need are people speaking up when the see something that is inappropriate
[17:45] <pleia2> this isn't just about attracting women, Linux has a reputation for being a boys club with locker room humor, it drives off a lot of folks
[17:45] <desertc> As I mentioned in -chat, I was impressed with mailing list posts such as this one from a female Chinese developer who chose to help Ubuntu because of her interaction with your chatroom:
[17:45] <desertc> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2007-October/001183.html
[17:45] <pleia2> desertc: thanks! in situations like hers we work to pinpoint her skills, what she wants to do, and try to link her up with the proper resources
[17:46] <desertc> I think there is a good deal to be said for "birds of a feather" groups, to encourage people to participate because they feel comfortable with the people around them.
[17:46] <pleia2> desertc: there are a lot of detractors, but the women groups really have helped me, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be as involved with Ubuntu without it
[17:47] <Cillian> I've noticed a lot of people seem to regard IRC as a large part of the community, but I'd like to note it's not just rough for women - I think you need to be generally thick skinned when on IRC, it's often a tough crowd to get on with
[17:47] <jedijf> honestly the reminders about appropriateness help me, as i tend to fall back into locker-room made rather easily - despite best intentions - sad to say
[17:48] <svaksha> desertc, support and guidance (minus sarcasm and locker room humor) in the technical aspects goes a long way in the learning process
[17:48] <pleia2> Cillian: I agree, I'd really like to see this change, the ops do a great job but IRC as a medium has a tendancy to just be abrasive and things can get out of hand quickly
[17:49] <Cillian> pleia2: I recall a comic strip - Completely normal person + anomymity + audience = complete jerk
[17:49] <desertc> I have been considering lately all the different ways people can get involved with the Free Software / Ubuntu communities.  Most of the ways is not specific to programming.  It's great to have an organization spreading that message to people who might not otherwise be interested.
[17:49] <Cillian> desertc: I would argue the community has proportionally too many programmers compared to translaters, UI people, graphic designers, etc.
[17:50] <pleia2> Cillian: if anomymity was our only problem I'd be happy, there have been incidents where very well known folks in the project have made inappropriate remarks, it's a culture that we'd like to see changed to attract a variety of folks
[17:50] <desertc> This is everyone's perception of "Linux participation", that you have to be a kernel hacker.  It's a misperception.
[17:50] <svaksha> Cillian, UW does not discriminate along those lines, a designer is as important as a programmer
[17:50] <TheSheep> Cillian: I can't imagine stepping into a project as a 'ui human'
[17:51] <TheSheep> Cillian: I mean, programmers are usually welcome, because they fix things, ui people seem to only add broken things
[17:52] <pleia2> desertc: not being specific about involvement has been important to our project, many will scream about stereotypes *ducks* but more women ARE involved in softer skills than the technical stuff for whatever reason, and Ubuntu makes those contributions feel valued
[17:52] <pleia2> one of the reasons I love this project so much :)
[17:52] <svaksha> without usabilty, software is not really useful imo
[17:52]  * pleia2 nods
[17:52] <Cillian> TheSheep: Of course programmers are essential, but what systems like Windows have above linux is not the quality of code, but (in some places) user interface design, artwork and general polish
[17:53] <TheSheep> Cillian: yes, what I mean, it's hard a usability man to join a project, you are kind of an enemy
[17:53] <Cillian> If there are any usability people looking for a friendly project, I could use one :)
[17:54] <svaksha> Cillian, also Windows had a head-start, Linux was always perceived as geeky
[17:54] <Cillian> svaksha: Which is was, due largely to the mass of programmers making things and nobody making it look nice and be easy
[17:54] <svaksha> Cillian, Gnome has a usability project
[17:54] <desertc> pleia2: The Classroom Project was part of your focus, too?  This is a great resource.  I would have almost liked a classroom topic this week on using the #ubuntu-classroom.
[17:55] <Cillian> Heh
[17:55] <pleia2> desertc: yes, the Classroom project has been quiet of late, but we're looking to revitalize it, I think it's a very important project
[17:55] <Lardarse> Question: do you think that encouraging women (particlarly those who aren't involved with development) to spread the word to other people would help get more women icontributing to the project?
[17:55] <svaksha> In ubuntu Evan D works on usability issues, i think
[17:55] <pleia2> Lardarse: absolutely
[17:55] <Cillian> Is there much going on in here outside of the open weeks?  I've never bothered to pop in apart from them
[17:56] <pleia2> Lardarse: I am taking some of the credit for the bump in women members in my LoCo team - if women are already there in a project or in an event, more are apt to come
[17:56] <pleia2> this goes for our local LUG as well
[17:56] <pleia2> it's very hard to be the first/only one
[17:57]  * svaksha agrees :)
[17:57] <pleia2> WRT Classroom - MOTU holds Q&A sessions here, but not much activity aside from that
[17:57] <pleia2> we're planningsome though :)
[17:58] <Gareth> Question: (maybe this was already asked and I missed it..damn facebook!)  But what in you experience has been the most successful way of encouraging women to get involved in the open source community?
[17:58] <pleia2> Gareth: one on one support
[17:59] <pleia2> find their specific needs and talents and mentor them
[17:59] <pleia2> and now we must wrap this up :)
[17:59] <Gareth> What about exposing them to open source software in general?
[17:59] <pleia2> that's great too!
[17:59] <Cillian> Gareth: Show off your compiz bling to them :)
[17:59] <pleia2> show them what it has to offer, might spark an interest in involvement :)
[17:59]  * Vorian applauds pleia2
[17:59] <Vorian> thanks!
[17:59] <pleia2> show everyone your compiz bling!
[17:59] <popey> thanks pleia2
[17:59]  * Cillian cheers
[18:00] <popey> well done
[18:00]  * svaksha cheers for pleia2
[18:00] <pleia2> thanks everyone
[18:00]  * jedijf too
[18:00]  * AidyFS gives pleia2 a cookie
[18:01] <atoponce> ok. welcome everyoen
[18:01] <atoponce> for this discission, i will be referring mainly to 3 resource pages:
[18:01] <atoponce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
[18:01] <atoponce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase
[18:01] <atoponce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoFAQ
[18:02] <atoponce> i have a lot to cover, so i'll be getting to the questions in groups, rather than as they come
[18:02] <atoponce> please remember to ask your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[18:02] <atoponce> ok. let's get started
[18:02] <atoponce> first, what exactly is a "LoCo Team"?
[18:03] <atoponce> LoCo stands for Local Community
[18:03] <atoponce> it's important to remember that an Ubuntu LoCo is a Special Interest Group (SIG), not a Linux Users Group (LUG)
[18:03] <atoponce> as such, the purpose of ubuntu LoCo Teams is to build ubuntu in their respective community, and not general linux
[18:04] <atoponce> although, people from all linux distros are more than welcome to join the team and learn more about ubuntu
[18:04] <atoponce> loco teams are a collection of members all running ubuntu looking to learn more about the distro and to spread loco advocacy in their area
[18:05] <atoponce> we advocate its use to organizations, schools and corporations
[18:05] <atoponce> generally, we meet on a regular basis, like once a month, or more often, pending the team
[18:05] <atoponce> we can meet in person, online (IRC), jabber muc, etc
[18:06] <atoponce> generally, loco teams are usually free for participation and membership, although that's up to the specific team
[18:07] <atoponce> asking for donations in not unheard of, and more than appropriate to help float some of the costs that a loco team uses, in terms of cds, t-shirts, posters, etc
[18:07] <atoponce> finally, goals and vision can vary from team to team. they could consist of translation, support, advocacy, etc
[18:07] <atoponce> ok. so, now that we know a little bit about what it is, why create a team?
[18:08] <atoponce> well, cemputer users of simialr interests like to meet with each other and discuss what they learn and do with ubuntu
[18:08] <atoponce> loco team members also enjoy advocating ubuntu together and discussing their success stories and where ubuntu is being deployed
[18:08] <atoponce> of course, friendships are built, and a community is born
[18:09] <atoponce> so, that brings me up to joining a loco team
[18:09] <atoponce> loco teams are built around peopraphic locations
[18:09] <atoponce> a fairly expansive list can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
[18:10] <atoponce> if you are looking to see if a team exisits in your area, check there. chances are good that it does
[18:10] <atoponce> joining a team generally means finding the teams IRC channel and joining online
[18:11] <atoponce> of course, you can join their mailing list, add yourself to their wiki page, join the launchpad membership roster
[18:11] <atoponce> once joined, the team will usually ask for participation and contribution to the team
[18:12] <atoponce> sitting idle on a team, by not helping to beild the loco team or contribute, is generally discouraged
[18:12] <atoponce> once joined, look at which talents you have, how you can contribute, how much time you have to contribute, and get started
[18:13] <atoponce> it varies from team to team, but whatever you can do is great
[18:15] <atoponce> sorry
[18:15] <atoponce> family just came over celebrating our baby news
[18:15] <atoponce> ok. let's look at starting a loco team
[18:16] <atoponce> it's important to note first off that loco teams are not to replace existing LUGs/SIGs
[18:16] <atoponce> rather, loco teams are designed to work hand-in-hand with existing LUGs to help spread ubuntu
[18:17] <atoponce> much like a python SIG would be helping to spread python in a more general programming group
[18:17] <atoponce> of course, the loco team wants to build team membership, and a great resource is the regional lugs, just be careful, would be my advice
[18:18] <atoponce> keep the relationship strong between the local lugs in the area
[18:18] <atoponce> now, you should not start a team in the same area, if you think that the loco team is not performing well, or as you would run it
[18:18] <atoponce> rather, you should work with the existing loco leader to see what you can do to help make the team succeed
[18:19] <atoponce> so, if you're sure that there is not a team in your area, after checking all the available resources, and "googling", then the first thing to do is to get those resources setup
[18:21] <atoponce> mailing lists, irc, wiki pages are the essential resources that need to be setup
[18:21] <atoponce> a team should not be worrying about setting up a cms site for the team
[18:21] <atoponce> however, launchpad is a good resource to manage team membership
[18:22] <atoponce> a loco team should be setup geographically by country, or by state in the U.S.
[18:23] <atoponce> however, there are situations that metting in person is not appropriate, because the area is so large, so creating a smaller team under the country umbrella team or umbrella state team could work
[18:23] <atoponce> i would advise to work with the umbrella loco team leader in that situation, and see what's best
[18:24] <atoponce> ok. i've covered a lot of content up to this point. are there any questions in -chat that i can answer?
[18:25] <atoponce> well, if no questions, i'll contiue with running and participating in a loco team and the difference between approved and non-approved teams
[18:27] <atoponce> running a loco team can take a great deal of time to execute and execute well
[18:27] <atoponce> running a team effectively takes a great deal of work and contributions from all team members not just the team leader and a couple of members here and there
[18:28] <atoponce> running a team consists of install fests, local community work, advocation to schools, corporations, etc.
[18:28] <atoponce> money is usually involved with running a team, but can be greatly minimized to a fow dollars per year per member if the team is run correctly and effectively
[18:28] <atoponce> this includes money for food, t-shirts, mugs, posters, CD-, etc
[18:28] <atoponce> *CDs
[18:29] <atoponce> ok. now, i'm sure that some of you have heard about getting a team approved
[18:30] <atoponce> what is it and why would you want your team approved?
[18:30] <atoponce> there are a few incentives on getting an approved team
[18:30] <atoponce> incentives such as CDs from Canonical, booth setups with kiosk materals as well as a sense of pride and accomplishment
[18:31] <Vorian> cjb_ie> QUESTION: are loco teams meant to address anything in particular? unsurprisingly, localisation springs to mind - but anything else?
[18:32] <atoponce> getting approved means an active team, with a good userbase, and active community involvement
[18:32] <atoponce> it varies from team to team, but generally a good rule of thumb is 2-3 large community events, such as booths or install fests, large membership list, an active mailing list and regularly scheduled meetings
[18:33] <atoponce> to get approved, create an application for approval on your team wiki, get in contact with jono to find out whether or not you can apply for approval from the CC
[18:33] <atoponce> ok. questions
[18:33] <Vorian> cjb_ie> QUESTION: are loco teams meant to address anything in particular? unsurprisingly, localisation springs to mind - but anything else?
[18:33] <Vorian> :)
[18:34] <atoponce> cjb_ie: advocacy advocacy advocacy. what a team should be focused on is getting schools, corporations, organizations, etc coverted to ubuntu
[18:34] <atoponce> there are many ways to do it, and execute, but it's mainly important to get out there and talking
 QUESTION: Are there any other teams like the Ubuntu US LoCo project for other groups around the world that are interested? And if not, who are some good people to talk to for mentoring?
[18:36] <atoponce> nixternal: i am not aware of any teams like the US Teams Mentoring project in other areas. however, there are good people to get in contact with., such as:
[18:36] <atoponce> Vorian, jono, nixternal (hehe), elkbuntu, pleia2 and others
[18:36] <atoponce> if you stick around for 2.5 more hors, i will also be talking about the mentoring project and how it's made the US Teams successful
[18:37] <nixternal> groovy
[18:37] <atoponce> ok. i'm going to finish up with conflicts that may arise in loco teams, and how to resolve them, as well and misc resources and stuff
[18:37] <atoponce> so, conflicts: they suck, but they happen from time to time
[18:38] <atoponce> the important thing to do when conflicts arise is not panic. they do NOT need to be taken to the CC whenever one arises
[18:39] <atoponce> canflicts in a loco team should be taken care of in the team. if escalated, loco leaders such as those i just mentioned, can help point members in the right dircetion to get the conflict resolved
[18:39] <atoponce> it's very possible that the conflict you are facing has been faced before and already resolved
[18:40] <atoponce> also, 90% of problems come from a lack of communication between members.  team members need to be united in purpose and vision, and open 100% to make it execute smoothly
[18:40] <atoponce> i have seen a couple conflicts arise here and there, and in every case, when the team members got talking, it was resolved quickly and effeciently
[18:41] <atoponce> the last topic that i have planned is a few odd-ball misc items that don't really fit, but i feel should be covered
[18:42] <atoponce> one is a hot topic that has been on the mailing lists: tax exemption and liability coverage
[18:42] <atoponce> both of these items need to be covered on a team-by-team basis
[18:42] <atoponce> canonical will NOT provide an umbrella organization for loco teams to fall under
[18:43] <atoponce> if a team feels they need it, they are more than welcome however, to go after it
[18:43] <atoponce> *anything* that will make the team succeed should be looked at, even if it's tax exemption and liability coverage
[18:44] <atoponce> ok. question time
[18:44] <Vorian> BonesolTeraDyne> QUESTION: Is there a central place for LoCo teams to get tips on what kind of events they could hold, or how to present Ubuntu or possible new users\companies\etc...?
[18:44] <atoponce> BonesolTeraDyne: there are resources all over the wiki, and even the forums.  i don't know of specific pages off hand, but a few good resources that can get you pointed in the right direction would be:
[18:45] <atoponce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams and #ubuntu-locoteams
[18:46] <atoponce> of course, there is also the ubuntu-contacts mailing list and launchpad page, which will get you in contact with the major loco leaders directly
[18:46] <atoponce> BonesolTeraDyne: but that's a *great* question. something that should be all over the wiki if it's not already
[18:46] <BonesolTeraDyne> thanks. That answers the question quite nicely.
[18:46] <atoponce> we should bring that up to the next loco doc day, where we work on filling holes and creating pages for loco teams
[18:46] <atoponce> cool
[18:47] <atoponce> to summarize this meeting at a 30,000 foot level:
[18:47] <atoponce> * loco teams are ubuntu-specific teams, not lugs
[18:48] <atoponce> * loco teams are about advocating ubuntu to anyone and everyone
[18:48] <atoponce> * loco teams are build around geographic boundaries, tying regional people together
[18:48] <atoponce> * joining a loco team is always encouraged, and more than welcome
[18:49] <atoponce> * identify your talents to help buld the team and make the community stronger
[18:49] <atoponce> * donate whatever time you can to building that community
[18:49] <atoponce> * start a loco team if one does not exist in your area
[18:49] <atoponce> * mailing list, wiki page and irc channel are the "essentials" for loco team resources
[18:50] <atoponce> * running a team does not require money, but there's nothing wrong with asking for donations. :)
[18:50] <atoponce> * the team sholud strive for approval by jono and the CC
[18:50] <atoponce> * resolve conflicts within the team, and pull in loco team leaders only as needed
[18:51] <atoponce> * LOCO TEAMS ROCK!
[18:51] <atoponce> it looks like i have about 9 minutes to answer any questions, or to fill any holes that i may have missed
[18:52] <Vorian> nicely done atoponce :)
[18:52] <atoponce> Vorian: thank you
[18:52] <Vorian> Thanks for a great presentation
[18:52] <atoponce> :)
[18:52] <atoponce> np
[18:52] <atoponce> i think everyone is sleeping. :)
[18:52] <BonesolTeraDyne> thanks atoponce
[18:53] <atoponce> BonesolTeraDyne: np
[18:53] <Vorian> Lardarse> QUESTION: Do you think that people who are not sure what they can offer to a LoCo should be put off from joining one?
[18:53] <Vorian> atoponce, ^
[18:54] <atoponce> Lardarse: absolutely not. being active, even if you're not contributing, is okay. for example:
[18:54] <atoponce> participating on the team mailing list or forums are a great way to be involved with the team
[18:54] <atoponce> attend the meetings, and talk to friends about ubuntu
[18:55] <atoponce> if everyone in the loco team did that, then every team would be 10x stronger than they currently are
[18:55] <atoponce> good question.
[18:56] <Lardarse> :-)
[18:57] <Vorian> thanks again atoponce :)
[18:57] <atoponce> Vorian:  np
[18:58] <atoponce> everyone, come back for the loco teams mentoring project if you're still interested in loco teams
[18:58] <atoponce> in 2.5 hours here
[18:58] <Vorian> \o/ mentors!
[18:58] <atoponce> or, 2 hours now. :)
[18:58]  * atoponce can count. promise!
[18:58] <Lardarse> come back? who said we were going to leave? :-)
[18:58] <BonesolTeraDyne> exactly
[18:59] <atoponce> Lardarse: good response. :)
[18:59] <TheMuso>  /c
[18:59] <Lardarse> albeit a little too slow to be funny...
[18:59] <_MMA_> Hi all. My name is Cory Kontros and I'm the lead on Ubuntu Studio. http://ubuntustudio.org My intro will be short. I'll post info with pauses so people can read. Then I'll open it up to questions.
[19:00] <_MMA_> Our project aims to bring together the best in the free-software world for multimedia production as well as spotlight these applications and help them gain a wider audience. We also work to maintain a good relationship with upstreams and the Debian-multimedia team as this will only better that apps in Ubuntu Studio and raise the bar for Linux multimedia creation as a whole.
[19:00] <_MMA_> The project started from a couple of Ubuntu users that were also users of DeMuDi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeMuDi The project started simply as a guide for Dapper (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/DapperPreparation) but was expanded to be a true Ubuntu-based, DeMuDi replacement. Simple beginning. :)
[19:00] <_MMA_> I will be sighting info from our Wiki page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[19:00] <_MMA_>
[19:01] <_MMA_> Our project provides packages suites of applications geared toward specific tasks.
[19:01] <_MMA_>  * Audio - All applications deemed necessary to provide a working PC studio environment.
[19:01] <_MMA_>     * Audio-Plugins - A collection of DSSI and LADSPA plugins.
[19:01] <_MMA_>  * Video - A collection of various video editing/creation apps.
[19:01] <_MMA_>  * Graphics - A collection of 2D/3D manipulation applications and plugins.
[19:01] <_MMA_> A listing of packages can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackageList
[19:01] <_MMA_>
[19:02] <_MMA_> With our Gutsy release we have also met 4 of our major goals.
[19:02] <_MMA_>  * Provide a true realtime patched kernel.
[19:02] <_MMA_>  * Support AMD64.
[19:02] <_MMA_>  * All packages in the Ubuntu proper repos.
[19:02] <_MMA_>  * Clean up the "Sound&Video" menu.
[19:02] <_MMA_> The team feels these will go along way toward improving the Ubuntu Studio users experience.
[19:02] <_MMA_>
[19:03] <_MMA_> We are a very small team an are always on the lookout for people who can give solid help. Currently we are looking for people to help with:
[19:03] <_MMA_>  * ISO testing
[19:03] <_MMA_>  * Documentation
[19:03] <_MMA_>  * Artwork for Gutsy. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming (this includes all aspects for the "look&feel of Ubuntu Studio-Gutsy as well as the website.)
[19:03] <_MMA_>  * Knowledgeable help with packaging and technical issues around Linux audio.
[19:03] <_MMA_> The front page of our wiki gives various ways to contact us about involvement. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[19:03] <_MMA_>
[19:04] <_MMA_> So with that I'll open it up. :) Please post questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat prefixed with "QUESTION:"
[19:04] <TheMuso> c
[19:04] <TheMuso> ugh
[19:04] <TheMuso> sorry
[19:04] <mzungu> join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[19:06] <TheMuso> desertc: Thereis no upgrade path, as it uses ubuntu Gutsy as base. If you only want to install either audio, audio plougins, video, or graphics, you only need in stall the ubuntustudio-audio, -video, -graphics, or -audio-plugins as needed.
[19:06] <_MMA_> ? I didnt see the question here.
[19:06] <PriceChild> TheMuso, you might want to paste the questions you're answering in here so the logs are nice :)
[19:07] <TheMuso> The ubuntustudio-desktop brings in the GNOME desktop, much like ubuntu-desktop does. if you are already running gutsy, you likely won't want to do this, as you already have a desktop.
[19:07] <TheMuso> PriceChild: Ok.
[19:07] <_MMA_> SOmeone handle the questions please.
[19:08] <_MMA_> "awkorama_: QUESTION: what's your view of NLE software for linux? what new video software is included in gutsy?"
[19:08] <_MMA_> Currently this is a big thorn in many sides.
[19:08] <TheMuso> desertc asked:  Is there an upgrade path from Ubuntu Gutsy standard install to Ubuntu Studio?
[19:08] <TheMuso> My answer is above.
[19:08] <_MMA_> NVE are really lacking.
[19:09] <_MMA_> Cinelerra is the best thing we have going but has many license issues.
[19:09] <_MMA_> Its a really complex app to develop.
[19:09] <_MMA_> Ardour has had success with audio because of a great team and financial support over the years.
[19:10] <_MMA_> But sadly this hasnt happened for NVE.
[19:10] <TheMuso> < mzungu> QUESTION: hi - is it ok to use kubuntu as the base system? -- mzungu, of course. There is nothing stopping you from using Kubuntu as a desktop.
[19:11] <_MMA_> mzungu: Sure. Wont hurt anything. :)
[19:12] <_MMA_> You *should* be able to use any *buntu you want with our packages.
[19:13] <TheMuso> < FayZee> QUESTION: (Following on from desertc) can i upgrade from Ubuntu 7.04 if I first uninstall the Gnome desktop? If  so, how / what CLI command - uninstall or purge or whatever?? - FayZee_  -- You shouldn't need to uninstall GNOME to upgrade to UbuntuStudio gutsy.
[19:13] <TheMuso> FayZee_: Since a lot has changed, and while many have had success, we recommend a fresh install of UbuntuStudio.
 QUESTION: Back to my comment about user-generated-content being the killer-app of Linux, Is Ubuntu Studio leading users to use Free file formats, or at least educating them about using non-Free codecs?  I imagine most people want to make and edit MP3 and AVI files, only because the know of the file formats.
[19:14] <TheMuso> FayZee_: Note also that you will need to remove the extra repo needed for Ubuntustudio Feisty from your /etc/apt/sources.list file.
[19:14] <popey> opme
[19:14] <_MMA_> We do prefer free formats where we can.
[19:15] <_MMA_> We ship no support for them by default following the same line as Ubuntu proper.
[19:15] <TheMuso> ^/c
[19:15] <TheMuso> < mzungu> QUESTION: in relation to my last question - i was thinking about audio latency issues with arts - so a kubuntu  desktop will still do the job?
[19:16] <TheMuso> mzungu: You just need to kill artsd before you use any audio app that might need to use Jack for example.
[19:16] <TheMuso> But yes, Kubuntu as a desktop is fine.
[19:16] <TheMuso> Any more questions?
[19:17] <_MMA_> hehe. Gonna be a short one. :)
 QUESTION: Do you offer packages or advice on how Ubuntu Studio users can publish their work?  Is there any server-services that could be used to publish user-generated media on a high-speed Internet connection?
[19:18] <_MMA_> desertc: Currently no. We're open to ideas. :)
[19:18] <TheMuso> I don't know of any, but others may... Guys?
 QUESTION (cont): I am thinking of pod-casting, and video-casting, as well as advise on where to put picture collections.
 QUESTION: is there any chance, that I won't get 90 audio apps when installing ubuntu studio, but get one to get a job done (think of ubuntu-desktop, it does not kill user by giving him 100 apps right away)
[19:20] <TheMuso> awkorama: As I said earlier, you can install ubuntustudio-audio to install a selection of audio applications.
[19:20] <_MMA_> awkorama_: You will get the audio apps installed by ubuntustudio-audio.
[19:20] <TheMuso> awkorama: But if you only want to install a few apps, you are better off finding the apps you need, and installing them.
[19:21] <_MMA_> We have tried to really pair it down via user feedback when we started.
 QUESTION: Have you seen Ubuntu Studio used in any organizations worth mentioning?
[19:21] <_MMA_> But if you're looking for a single app its best to use U/K/Xubuntu ans grab what you want.
[19:22] <_MMA_> desertc: Id have to dig for some emails but I would saw the short answer is no. :)
[19:23] <_MMA_> I have a school using it and someone mentioned using it at their work but thats about it. :)
[19:24] <_MMA_> *crickets*
[19:24] <_MMA_> :)
[19:25] <jussi01>  <desertc> QUESTION: Does Ubuntu Studio have DVD video encoding?  Can I make burn my own digital movies to DVD like Apple iFilm?  If not, then what do you see as the roadblocks
[19:25] <_MMA_> desertc: Currently no. We are looking at some to make sure there are no license concerns.
[19:25] <TheMuso> Proprietary codecs.
[19:26] <_MMA_> We're happy to take any suggestions on the matter.
[19:27] <TheMuso> Don't forget that the large majority of codecs in use for things like DVD today, are patent encumbered.
[19:27] <_MMA_> Like I said, we're a small team and welkcome help. ;)
[19:27] <TheMuso> And/or require royalties.
[19:27] <_MMA_> *welcome
 QUESTION: Have you thought about educational uses of this software, for classes that teach about multimedia in their intro to  computers class?
[19:28] <TheMuso> As a development team, I don't see that as our concern at this point.
[19:28] <TheMuso> If users wish to do that, they are most welcome to.
[19:28] <TheMuso> DVDs use MPEG for the video, which has patents/royalties as far as I know.
[19:29] <_MMA_> Sure, problem is, that its really hard to use some of our tools in the "normal world" because of the proprietary nature of broadcasting.
[19:29] <_MMA_> So schools usually want AVID.Pro-Tools.
[19:30] <_MMA_> And though it can be done with our tools, its hard to get them to look at us.
[19:30] <TheMuso> < popey> does ubuntustudio do mp3 encoding?
[19:30] <TheMuso> < popey> if so then the patent argument aobut dvd is somewhat irrelavent
[19:30] <TheMuso> Not by default, no.
[19:30] <TheMuso> You need to install an MP3 encoder from the multiverse repo to do that.
[19:31] <_MMA_> We follow the same "party line" as Ubuntu proper.
 QUESTION: Thought about the upcoming GNASH project and incorporating an open flash development tool set?
[19:31] <jussi01> desertc: does one exist?
[19:31] <TheMuso> I personally dislike flash greatly, so wouldn't recommend encouraging a proprietary format.
[19:32] <TheMuso> I don't know of one that exists so far.
[19:32] <luisbg> gnash playbacks flash, doesn't edit it
[19:32] <luisbg> no free flash editor is even plausible right now
[19:32] <TheMuso>  But at the end of the day, its not my call whether it goes in or not.
 QUESTION: How has the alpha-status of the OGG video codec, Theora, effected the tools you include in Ubuntu Studio?
[19:33] <TheMuso> We just include them. The only way things get better, is if users use/test them, and file bugs.
[19:33] <TheMuso> And, theora is the most ree of video codecs atm afaik.
[19:33] <_MMA_> Not so much only that I keep am keeping a better eye on then to make sure we get the newest packages in we can.
[19:33] <luisbg> the alpha-status is a label they have, the quality is very good and could be definitive
 QUESTION: What is your most favorite feature in Ubuntu Studio?  What's the most fun you've had on the team?
[19:34] <luisbg> but some projects tend to dilate the alpha label, specially if there is no money behind release a "final product"
[19:34] <TheMuso> Realtime kernel + Jack + 3 soundcards simultaneously. :p
[19:34] <_MMA_> Hmm... Ardour2 and our -RT kernel. :)
[19:34] <TheMuso> I've had fun doing everything that I've done for the project/team.
[19:34] <luisbg> -rt kernel has given us real fun times, no doubt
[19:34] <_MMA_> And our cleaned up Sound&Video menu. :)
[19:35] <_MMA_> Its dived into submenus now to help with the mile-high menu.
[19:37] <joejaxx> and amd64 support :)
[19:37] <_MMA_> Ahh..
[19:37] <_MMA_> Yes. :)
[19:38] <_MMA_> +1 for Joe
 QUESTION: How far do you think video editing in Linux has come compared to, say... last year? Also, how long do you think it will be until we get something that has achieved the level that Adobe Premier or iMovie has gotten to right now?
[19:38] <_MMA_> Not far at all. Its a fairly complex thing to pull off and alot of the devs that do them sadly work alone.
[19:39] <popey> pitivi is coming along very nicely
[19:39] <_MMA_> I have been talking with the 64Studio guys to see what we can do.
[19:39] <_MMA_> We have a long way to go to get to Adobe Premier or iMovie.
[19:40] <_MMA_> pitivi is coming along but Open Movie Editor looks to be making more progress.
[19:41] <luisbg> I believe the real problem is in the bass... gstreamer and openlibs aren't ready for video heavy duty
[19:41] <_MMA_> This is something we will be heavily looking at in the Hardy cycle.
[19:41] <luisbg> but progress in that side is being made day after day
[19:42] <jussi01>  <imbrandon> QUESTION: how much MT. Dew and $other_caffeine do you guys go though close to a release :P
[19:43] <_MMA_> Personally, none. :) Joe might though.
[19:43] <TheMuso> None here. Just get good rest, and be sure I know what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, and how much time I have to get it in.
[19:43] <TheMuso> And whether its likely to break something.
[19:43] <luisbg> I don't drink coffee... mabe tea
[19:44] <joejaxx> i only drink cranberry juice :) it is great make sure you get the Ocean Spray
[19:44] <luisbg> but if you were offerings drugs... I can give you my post adress
[19:44] <_MMA_> But Id really like to stress that this project is very much in that hands of its users.
[19:44] <joejaxx> luisbg: lol
[19:44] <joejaxx> _MMA_: yes the community is a big part
[19:44] <_MMA_> We need people to get involved in a constructive way.
[19:44]  * luisbg underlines constructive
[19:45] <joejaxx> _MMA_: and commitment
[19:46] <joejaxx>  /win 288
[19:46] <joejaxx> bah
[19:46] <_MMA_> We have had issues we took to the ML and forums and received feedback thats great. We also need suggestions and help from people who can carry out a plan.
[19:46] <TheMuso> If you wish to get involved with packaging, I suggest you first get involved with the MOTUs, (See other sessions), and then if you wish to help us further, contact us, and we'll have a talk.
[19:47] <_MMA_> Apart from new ideas people can help with testing ISOs. Writing HOW-TOs/Documentation. And our art is open to the community this time around.
[19:47] <_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
[19:50] <_MMA_> Well lets kill it then.
[19:50] <joejaxx> :D
[19:50] <_MMA_> Please feel free to contact us. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[19:50] <joejaxx> Thank you all for attending
[19:50] <luisbg>  or #ubuntustudio
[19:50] <joejaxx> We hope to see your involvement in the upcoming release cycle :)
[19:50] <_MMA_> That link has all the info to get involved or just jump on IRC and chat.
[19:51] <TheMuso> We do attempt to have someone in all timezones, but there is also the users mailing list.
[19:51] <_MMA_> I personally wont be around in #ubuntustudio till tomorrow or Monday but feel free to hit me up when you see me.
[19:52] <TheMuso> I'll be on and off, depending on whether I can get my box at home up again, but I will be around this week as well.
[19:52]  * joejaxx is on all the time :)
[19:53]  * luisbg doesn't want to be distracted... just kidding, we are all open to chat when we are around
[19:55] <_MMA_> Ok. Thanx all. Im out. :D
[20:01] <nixternal> Hey everyone, welcome to Ubuntu OpenWeek - This talk will be about the Ubuntu Documentation Project
[20:02] <nixternal> I will start out with a short/brief introduction and talk about the project, and then plan on having an open forum at the end. I enjoy the open forum as it allows us to speak one-on-one allowing you to help control the pace
[20:02] <nixternal> So here we go!
[20:02] <nixternal> = Who am I? =
[20:02] <nixternal> My name is Richard Johnson. I am an Ubuntu member as well as a member of other teams within the Ubuntu community. I am known mostly around here as the Kubuntu and KDE documentation guy. So because of this, I will be talking to you all today about the Ubuntu Documentation Project. * '''Wiki Page''': ["RichardJohnson"] * '''LP Page''':   https://launchpad.net/~nixternal
[20:02]  * nixternal loves the great copy/paste effect there
[20:03]  * WanderingKnight too
[20:03] <nixternal> = What is the Ubuntu Documentation Project? =
[20:03] <nixternal> The project was created in order to create system documentation for the Ubuntu operating system. As time went on and Ubuntu matured, the scope of the project has widened. Currently the Ubuntu Documentation Project encompasses everything from the wikis to system documentation for each Ubuntu partner project (Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu).
[20:03] <nixternal> == Who is the Ubuntu Documentation Project? ==
[20:03] <nixternal> The project is comprised of the Ubuntu Documentation Team which is completely made up of volunteers. The core team is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc however many others contribute freely to the documentation all the time. The core team spends a majority of their time working on system documentation whereas the volunteers tend to start off adding documentation to the community wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community) an
[20:03] <nixternal> if that got cut off, please yell
[20:04] <WanderingKnight> YELLING
[20:04] <cjb_ie> "(https://help.ubuntu.com/community) an"
[20:04] <nixternal> gotcha, thanks
[20:04] <nixternal> and eventually work their way up to the core team.
[20:05] <nixternal> == What types of documentation does the team work on? ==
[20:05] <nixternal> There are essentially two types of documentation that the team produces.
[20:05] <nixternal> 1. System documentation - this is written in a markup language called DocBook/XML, and is hosted in the documentation repository.
[20:05] <nixternal> 2.  Online documentation - composed of an HTML version of #1, and a community driven wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community).
[20:06] <nixternal> == Why are there 2 wikis? ==
[20:06] <nixternal>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com is looked at mainly as the developer wiki. This wiki is meant to store specifications and team information as well as personal wiki pages for members and future members.
[20:06] <nixternal>  * https://help.ubuntu.com/community is the community documentation wiki. Any and everyone is more than welcome to add their documentation to that wiki, or improve the documentation that is already there. This is the wiki to go for when you need help with your system.
[20:06] <nixternal> == How does one contribute to the project? ==
[20:06] <nixternal> Diving in and trying things out is the best way to begin getting involved. If you have edited a ton of wiki pages, or have experience with technical documentation, then maybe you should go ahead and download our repository (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository) and start getting familiar with DocBook/XML and the way we rock.
[20:07] <nixternal> NOTE:  We are currently in the process of creating the project on Launchpad with Bazaar as well - as that comes up to speed, we will announce how you can get involved with that as well.
[20:08] <nixternal> We have even included a validation tool in our repository to help you ensure the documentation you have created is logically valid. If you are confused or have any questions, please feel free to ask in #ubuntu-doc or on the mailing list (ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com). Be patient, as sometimes the IRC channel may be dead, however the mailing list is usually quick to provide a response.
[20:08] <nixternal> NOTE: Patience will be needed this week, as we are currently getting ready for the Ubuntu Developers Summit in Bostom, MA (USA)
[20:09] <nixternal> == What is this DocBook/XML you keep blabbing about? ==
[20:09] <nixternal> DocBook is a DTD (Document Type Definition) which includes a very popular set of tags for describing books, articles, and other prose documents. XML (eXtensible Markup Language) is a general purpose, free and open source, markup language. Both are fairly easy to pick up and learn. More information on DocBook is available at http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/docbook.html.
[20:10] <nixternal> NOTE: If you can do HTML, you can easily do DocBook/XML. There are currently no WYSIWYG editors for DocBook/XML. Most people tend to use gEdit (Gnome), Kate (KDE), as well as a variety of web programming apps (Bluefish, Scream, Quanta+, and more)
[20:10] <nixternal> == I am not all up technically enough to document, what else can I do? ==
[20:10] <nixternal> Proof reading is a great way to get started as well. This will not only find our mistakes, but it will allow you to familiarize yourself with the ways that we do things. You can look through our documentation via the repository, or by visiting http://doc.ubuntu.com and reading through the documentation that gets built nightly via the repositories. Note this is a staging area and not a final release area.
[20:11] <nixternal> Also note the wiki section coming up!
[20:11] <nixternal> == What are the key tasks with the documentation team? ==
[20:11] <nixternal> There are actually quite a few tasks, and they continue to grow with each release. So due to this, we definitely have the need for more contributors. As it stands, these are just some of the key tasks:
[20:12] <nixternal>  * Improving the navigability and readability of the help (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TopicBasedHelp)
[20:12] <nixternal>  * Incorporating material from the Official Ubuntu Book into appropriate sections in the system documentation, amending the style accordingly.
[20:12] <nixternal>  * Addressing areas which are missing from the documentation, in particular by reviewing material on the wiki/forum/mailing lists and converting it to DocBook for inclusion in the system documentation.
[20:12] <nixternal>  * Updating existing information which is no longer valid due to inclusion of new features in each release.
[20:12] <nixternal> == Wiki Documentation ==
[20:13] <nixternal> Contribution is as easy as logging into the wiki using your launchpad account, and then correct the errors you find in the documents. Read existing documents to become familiar with the wiki markup which is very easy to do. Some of you may have noticed = Question =, that is wiki markup which is similar to the <h1> or main header in HTML.
[20:13] <nixternal> The community documentation wiki also needs a little spring cleaning as well. So you can visit https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCleanup and go through and proof the pages, and make them conform to the Wiki Guide at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide. After you have edited and cleaned up a few pages, apply to join the Wiki Team at https://beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki.
[20:14] <nixternal> Or depending on where you are in the world, Summer, Fall, or Winter cleanup :)
[20:14] <nixternal> == Is there any one task you really need help with on the wiki? ==
[20:14] <nixternal> Cleaning out the CategoryCleanup category on the wiki is a big task for wiki pages at this time. You can see which documentation is in need of some cleaning. Refer to the previous topic under Wiki Documentation.
[20:14] <nixternal> == Like system documentation are there key tasks for the wiki? ==
[20:15] <nixternal> Sure there are. Here are just a few of them now:
[20:15] <nixternal>  * Improve the self-maintainability of the wiki by introducing easy tools for quality assurance (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance). This spec needs ideas, discussion and eventually some code.
[20:15] <nixternal>  * Doing quality assurance to ensure users are given reliable information and can quickly identify how reliable a page is.
[20:15] <nixternal>  * Improving existing material and adding new material to the wiki, in particular drawing on the immense resources offered by the forums (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum).
[20:15] <nixternal>
[20:15] <nixternal> A main goal is to bring the system documentation and the online documentation closer and closer together, so eventually it is easy for the system documentation to draw on contributions via the wiki, and users to browse and search all of the available documentation via a single interface, be it via the online website or the system help viewer. This is a very large goal awaiting the right tools to come together.
[20:16] <nixternal>
[20:16] <nixternal> == TRANSLATIONS!!! ==
[20:16] <nixternal> No question really, but I don't know if you all realize this or not, but translators are one of the largest assets of the Ubuntu community. Ubuntu is known as an operating system with more translations than any other. We can never have enough truthfully, so if you are a translator and are interested in helping out, then you just need to learn the Rosetta translation system (https://launchpad.net/rosetta).
[20:16] <nixternal>
[20:16] <nixternal> You can find out how to use that on the Rosetta wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rosetta). Once you have brushed up on all of this, the docteam documents can be found at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/hardy/+source/ubuntu-docs. Replace ubuntu-docs with kubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs, and/or edubuntu-docs accordingly.
[20:17] <nixternal>
[20:17] <nixternal> == Conclusion ==
[20:17] <nixternal> Thank you for staying awake during this little speech. I hope I was able to provide you with viable information to help you get started. If you come up with any questions, any problems, or whatever, please feel free to contact me anytime (nixternal@ubuntu.com). To contact the team try any of the following:
[20:17] <nixternal>  * IRC - server: chat.freenode.net - port: 8001 - channel: #ubuntu-doc
[20:17] <nixternal>  * Mailing List -<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- subscribe or read the archives at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc.
[20:17] <nixternal>  * Wiki - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[20:18] <nixternal>
[20:18] <nixternal> At this point I would generally ask for questions in the chat channel, but I think having you ask them directly, keeping it fun and upbeat, provides the best results....so let them fly...just take it easy, I haven't had lunch yet and my eyes are a little crossed :)
[20:19] <nixternal> if there are Questions, can someone please copy/paste them into here so they can be addressed first?
[20:19] <nixternal> you seem like the perfect candidate
[20:20] <nixternal> zzZZzZzZZZzzZzzzZZZzZzz :p
[20:21] <nixternal> alrighty then, no questions...I can see everyone stayed awake for this one
[20:21] <ttread> QUESTION: Installation is one of the first problems new users face, but it's not covered in the official doc.  In the community doc, the graphical install section was written for Dapper.  Why?
[20:22] <nixternal> there we go
[20:23] <nixternal> ttread: It seems nobody has updated that page. Usually the community members take care of it, but as you can see, it has slidden a little bit. The reason it isn't covered in the oficial documentation is because it is now meant to be used once the system is installed
[20:23] <nixternal> this occurred when we switched away from the Ubuntu Desktop Guide to the Topic Based Help
[20:24] <nixternal> There is an installation guide somewhere in the repositories that would be great to have updated for the future as well
[20:24] <nixternal> definitely something that needs to be added to our TODO list though
[20:25] <nixternal> jussi01: that would be great, since my nemesis seems to be elsewhere :)
[20:26] <nixternal> this would be the 2nd talk where the mouse is currently sitting in its cradle taking a charge :)
[20:26] <jussi01>  <posingaspopular> QUESTION: which parts of the Ubuntu Documentation need the most work, for new users to get a good start?
[20:26] <jussi01> nixternal: please say next when you are done :)
[20:26] <nixternal> posingaspopular: as you can see from ttread's question, the Community Wiki is a great place to start
[20:26] <nixternal> posingaspopular: the most work is definitely needed with the system documentation as well though
[20:27] <nixternal> The Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu documentation really needs more eyes. And if you use any of those then I would recommend hopping on with one of them
[20:27] <nixternal> next...
 QUESTION: When will the documentation get updated to 7.10, in so much as what is the process for that to occur?
[20:28] <nixternal> 7.10 has been updated and released with the install. Not sure if I follow that questions 100%. desertc feel free to elaborate more in here.
[20:29] <desertc> Is this page part of the documentation project?
[20:29] <desertc> https://help.ubuntu.com/
[20:29] <nixternal> ahh, yes it is
[20:30] <nixternal> that is actually to be updated by the Canonical Systems Admin who has access to that page. Unfortunately the community doesn't have access to that one :(
[20:30] <nixternal> I will poke Matt and tell him to hurry up, the masses are chomping at the bit :)
[20:30] <nixternal> next...
 QUESTION: What is status of Documentation localizations?
[20:30] <nixternal> that was quick
[20:31] <jussi01> nixternal: Im on the ball ;)
[20:31] <nixternal> I really don't know the status. As for translations, all of the ones that were complete for release are available. As for localizing them on the web, that is up to the local community teams I believe
[20:32] <nixternal> nikolam: I think the best answer for that question can probably be grabbed from Matthew East (mdke on IRC in #ubuntu-doc)
[20:32] <nixternal> you can also try our mailing list to find out more
[20:32] <nixternal> next...
[20:32] <nixternal> thought you were on that ball? or are we flat out of questions?
[20:33] <jussi01>  <spd106> QUESTION: When is it ok to delete old and abandoned wiki pages?
[20:33] <nixternal> :p
[20:33] <jussi01> crap I have some lag
[20:33] <nixternal> ooh, got me
[20:33] <nixternal> hehe
[20:33] <nikolam> thanks
[20:34] <nixternal> spd106: never. Either we need to get those pages updated, or if they don't need to be updated, at least preserve them just in case someone needs to use it
[20:34] <jussi01> if i disapper, please someone take over... :(
[20:34] <nixternal> next...
[20:34] <jussi01> [22:28] <BonesolTeraDyne> QUESTION: How many people are working on the docs as their main task?
[20:34] <nixternal> jussi01: if you disappear, I will just open it up to the world..which I plan on doing for suggestions and ideas
[20:34] <rohan> i can take over, jussi01
[20:35] <nixternal> BonesolTeraDyne: there is really only a small handfull that does it as their main task
[20:35] <jussi01> rohan: thanks. I going to go sort out my connection
[20:35] <nixternal> I do a lot only because I enjoy it, which has really turned into a main task for me, but I do a lot of development type work as well
[20:35] <rohan> jussi01: ok, just tell me when you're ready to hand over the baton to me :)
[20:35] <popey> i am not here
[20:36] <nixternal> I think every project has 2 main documenters... 2 for Ubuntu, 2 for Kubuntu, 2 for Xubuntu, and 2 for Edubuntu
[20:36] <nixternal> and we didn't plan for it like that, it is just slow in the doc world, and you can see we definitely need the added eyes
[20:36] <nixternal> next...
 QUESTION: What is a minimum of localizations that needs to be done, so that we can say we have localized U/K/Xubunutu? Does All types of Ubuntu must be localized on the same moment?
[20:36] <rohan> 01:03 < nikolam> QUESTION: What is a minimum of localizations that needs to be done, so that we can say we have localized U/K/Xubunutu? Does All types of Ubuntu must be localized on the same moment?
[20:36] <nixternal> there we go
[20:37] <nixternal> nikolam: Yes :) I don't know if we have a minimum really, we can only use what has been done, and we can't expect all of them to be done as 99.9% of the people are volunteers, and some, unlike me, have a life outside of Linux :)
[20:38] <nixternal> We have a cut off, which is about a month or so prior to the final release that we allow the translators to catch up
[20:38] <nixternal> but that doesn't mean they don't start translating from day one
[20:38] <nixternal> we try to upload updates throughout the development cycle so that they have something to work with
[20:39] <nixternal> the bigger countries with more users of course seem to fly through translations
[20:39] <nixternal> next...
[20:39] <rohan> that's it for now, nixternal
[20:39] <nixternal> OK, that seems it...so open it up and let everyone speak their mind! :)
[20:39] <nixternal> do you all have any ideas? suggestions? complaints?
[20:39] <nixternal> come on in here and join me :)
[20:40] <nixternal> I won't bite, but I don't know about rohan
[20:40] <rohan> nixternal: one question, because i missed the starting of the session - what's the way i jump in and start helping with docs ?
[20:40] <rohan> editing wiki pages ?
[20:40] <nixternal> you answered your own question...just jump in where you feel the most comfortable really...jumping in is what it is all about...
[20:41] <nixternal> wiki pages are good so you can get your flow going
[20:41] <rohan> hehe, i don't bite .. not right now, because the moon is hidden by the clouds ;)
[20:41] <nixternal> but don't forget to check out the repository and go through the code to get an understanding
[20:41] <sommer> nixternal: I'm not sure if this has been asked, but do the official docs get some of their content from the Wiki?
[20:41] <nixternal> aaaaawhooooooo <- rohan howling at the moon
[20:41] <posingaspopular> nixternal: thanks.
[20:42] <nixternal> sommer: yes...we have recently changed the licensing on the Wiki and the System Documentation so we can do just that
[20:42] <nixternal> CC-by-SA (3.0 I believe now)
[20:42] <sommer> cool, thanks.
[20:42] <nixternal> no problem
[20:43] <nixternal> how many miss the Desktop Guide if they were around for it?
[20:43] <BonesolTeraDyne> nixternal: What app do you suggest for new doc writters to use when making something in docbook format?
[20:43] <rohan> nixternal: just for the record, can you give us a brief runup of the licence ? if i edit a wiki page, who owns "my" text ? ubuntu ? community ? me ? what about official documentation ?
[20:43] <BonesolTeraDyne> nixternal: I miss it
[20:43] <nixternal> BonesolTeraDyne: what is your favorite text editor? a majority of them have a plugin just for DocBook
[20:44] <nixternal> gEdit is great if you use Gnome, Kate is amazing if you use KDE, VI has their own, as well as Emacs
[20:44] <BonesolTeraDyne> nixternal: in GUI, it's kate, and in term, it's VIM
[20:44] <nixternal> Kate allows you to validate as well, there is a plugin for it
[20:44] <posingaspopular> geany
[20:44] <nixternal> kate-plugins
[20:45] <BonesolTeraDyne> ok. thanks
[20:45] <nixternal> ya, you can use Geany, Bluefish, Scream, Quanta, and I am sure Kompozer which is the new Nvu as well
[20:45] <nixternal> rohan: researching your question really quick..I want to be positive on my answer
[20:46] <BonesolTeraDyne> I might try Quanta, since I already use it for working on my website.
[20:46] <nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/License
[20:46] <nixternal> that doesn't answer it 100% either
[20:47] <nixternal> rohan:  "Contributors to the Ubuntu documentation wiki"
[20:47] <rohan> aha, thanks nixternal
[20:47] <nixternal> so they don't license it individually
[20:48]  * nixternal grumbles at that, but it isn't up to me unfortunately
[20:48]  * nixternal is a GPL fan anyways :
[20:49] <nixternal> any ideas on how we can fix things? anything we might add? can we make stuff easier/better?
[20:51] <sommer> I notice the community wiki is a couple MoinMoin versions behind... :)
[20:52] <nixternal> yes it is...and what a pitty
[20:52] <nixternal> now for the reason...
[20:52] <nixternal> our version of MoinMoin is so modified, it would take a small army to do all of the core updates...which is definitely planned, but for when I couldn't tell you precisely
[20:53] <nixternal> Ubuntu and MoinMoin share a strong bond/partnership, so I know/hope it can only get better
[20:54] <sommer> ah... that's what I was thinking.
[20:54] <nixternal> hopefully it will get updated soon, but I have heard "rumors" of MediaWiki...but as I said so far they have been vapor/rumors
[20:55] <cpu> anybody from Montenegro/Serbia/Croatia?
[20:55] <sommer> cool thanks nixternal.
[20:56] <nixternal> no problem, thanks for the questions
[20:56] <nixternal> and I think there is one more talk left
[20:56] <atoponce> cpu: #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
[20:57] <cpu> ok, im sorry
[20:57] <atoponce> np
[21:01] <atoponce> ok. welcome welcome to yet another exiting edition of loco talk!
[21:01] <atoponce> i'm your host, aaron toponce, and i'll be discussing a great new upcoming project that has been extremely successful with loco teams in the united states
[21:02] <nixternal> yay \o/

[21:02] <atoponce> :)
[21:02] <Lardarse> hehe
[21:02] <atoponce> seriously, however, i will be discussing about the US Teams Mentoring Project- a spec about loco teams mentoring other loco teams
[21:03] <atoponce> please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USTeams as i go through this presentation
[21:03] <atoponce> ok. first thing first: defining the spec
[21:03] <atoponce> what is the Us Teams Mentoring Project?
[21:04] <atoponce> i want to make something crystal clear before i really dive in:
[21:04] <atoponce> it is NOT another team, like the IRC team, or documentation team, or loco team
[21:04] <atoponce> this is a specification designed to build communities where they either do not exist or are struggling
[21:04] <atoponce> for example
[21:05] <atoponce> if the Australia LoCo Team recognizes that the Chile LoCo Team is struggling, then the members of the Australia team could pool their resources together to help the Chile team, and that is exactly what we have done in the United States on a state level
[21:06] <atoponce> we recognize that maybe Nevada isn't having such a great time getting members, and building the LoCo community
[21:06] <atoponce> so, a mentor is assigned (whoever wants the opportunity) to Nevada to help them get off the ground and become successful
[21:07] <atoponce> say the mentor is myself. then, i would take the resources that helped make the Utah team succeed, and try to see if they would also work for Nevada
[21:07] <atoponce> and not just Utah. any team can help Nevada, and many mentors could be assigned
[21:08] <atoponce> we have a mailing list for the US Teams project where we can discuss these things, as well as an irc channel- #ubuntu-us
[21:08] <atoponce> pooling our resources from several teams can help make Nevada succeed and strong
[21:08] <atoponce> 14:07 < posingaspopular> QUESTION: Is there a point where a Loco team interves and offers to another team, or  does a struggling team have to ask for help before they get it?
[21:09] <atoponce> posingaspopular: a struggling team does not have to ask for help.  if any team recognizes that another is struggling, it's best if that team just jumps right in offering any help they can
[21:10] <atoponce> so, rather than just building our own little internal communities, we're helping to build other communities by expanding our reach
[21:10] <atoponce> i want to stress it again, however, that this mentoring project is just a spec, NOT a team. there is no "team leader" so-to-speak of this project
[21:10] <atoponce> we're all playing the same game- to help these teams
[21:11] <atoponce> ok. so, now we know a little about the project, how do you get involved?
[21:11] <atoponce> well, we've built what we call "mentors"
[21:11] <atoponce> Mentors are the those who are representing the project, and the official ones helping the struggling LoCo teams
[21:11] <atoponce> they represent Ubuntu and LoCo directly
[21:12] <atoponce> as such, we ask that if you would like to get involved, and become a mentor, that you are approved as an Ubuntu Member by the CC, and that your LoCo Team is also approved by the CC
[21:13] <atoponce> this way, as a mentor, you can give advice to the team(s) that are struggling, as your advice will mean more coming from someone who has made their team succeed as well as themselves?
[21:13] <atoponce> s/?/./
[21:13] <atoponce> hopefully, that makes sense
[21:13] <atoponce> so, who are the mentors currently?
[21:14] <atoponce> well, we are few in number, but hope to change that very quickly. the more mentors that are part of this spec, the better we can build LoCo teams in the US
[21:14] <atoponce> they are:
[21:14] <atoponce> myself, Vorian, Rinchen, nixternal, etank, bkingx, boredandblogging and pleia2
[21:14] <atoponce> (as seen on the wiki page)
[21:15] <atoponce> once a member becomes a mentor (which is easy- just ask, and if you meet the requirements, you're in! :) )
[21:15] <atoponce> then we get to work. trust me, it's not light work either. :)
[21:16] <atoponce> when you're a mentor, all you need to do is identify which LoCo you would like to sponsor, and jump in
[21:17] <atoponce> for example: if you join the project and become a mentor of it, then just identify which team needs help.  say you recognize Wyoming needs help. then it's probably best at that point to introduce yourself to the LoCo team leader and see if they would like some help from you as a mentor
[21:17] <atoponce> join their mailing list, irc channel, and launchpad page. keep an eye on their wiki and anything else you can to be involved
[21:18] <atoponce> 14:14 < posingaspopular> QUESTION: Do you have to be an ubuntu member to start a Loco?
[21:18] <atoponce> yes. to be a mentor, you need to be both approved as an ubuntu member, and your LoCo team needs to be approved as a team as well
[21:19] <atoponce> now, we have a goal that we're trying desperately to accomplish, and that is to get a team in every state by the beginning of 2008
[21:19] <atoponce> let me run down some stats for you to show you how successful this has been
[21:19] <atoponce> when Zelut, Vorian and I created this spec, there were only a handful of teams in the US
[21:19] <atoponce> and when i mean "handful", i mean:
[21:20] <atoponce> Utah, Colorado, Ohio and Chicago as approved teams, with Kentucky, Arizona and Florida in the works
[21:20] <atoponce> now where are we?
[21:21] <atoponce> may i direct you to the map at http://ubuntu-us.org
[21:21] <atoponce> see the grey states?
[21:21] <atoponce> those are the only states left that do not have a team in them currently
[21:21] <atoponce> the green states are those that have been approved (or cities), with the yellow on their way to seeking approval
[21:21] <atoponce> (or new)
[21:22] <atoponce> HOW COOL IS THAT?!?!?
[21:22] <atoponce> because of mentoring, and reaching out to LoCo teams in other states, we've turned the United States on it's head with Ubuntu LoCo advocacy
[21:24] <atoponce> can you feel the excitement? think about this for a second-
[21:24] <atoponce> what is ubuntu all about? what is the one thing that people say separate ubuntu from the rest of the distros?
[21:24] <atoponce> COMMUNITY
[21:24] <atoponce> so, this project is a perfect fit
[21:25] <atoponce> ok. so, enough with the United States. let's expand our horizons
[21:25] <nixternal> atoponce: and a brown desktop! and no, we are not UPS!
[21:25] <atoponce> heh
[21:26] <atoponce> let's think about this for a second.  if this has been super successful for the United States, how can we spread the wildfire to the rest of the world?
[21:26] <atoponce> again, because this is not a team, but a spec, surely we can apply the same principles to other loco teams and countries, and we can
[21:26] <atoponce> this is the work that jono has been doing since day one
[21:27] <atoponce> however, there has been some subconscious thinking, i think, that we only need to concern ourselves with our own loco
[21:28] <atoponce> now we can think out of the box and start helping other countries around the world
[21:28] <atoponce> #ubuntu-locoteams is the channel, and ubuntu-lococontacts the mailing list
[21:29] <atoponce> if we pool our resources, there is no stopping catching the fever, and spreading ubuntu throughout the world
[21:29] <atoponce> and that's all the mentoring project is all about
[21:29] <atoponce> pooling our resources as loco teams, and helping everyone else out
[21:29] <atoponce> improving communication between locos
[21:30] <atoponce> making it easier to setup teams
[21:30] <atoponce> in fact, i want to discuss that for just a second
[21:30] <atoponce> Zelut started the utah team, what? 2 or 3 years ago i think? and he had no clue what he was doing
[21:30] <atoponce> "start a team. get members" was all he knew
[21:31] <atoponce> he knew he needed to create and IRC channel, which he did, then what?
[21:31] <atoponce> it took a bit to get it off the ground, and it got rolling, and now everything is great
[21:32] <atoponce> but how could it have been easier for him, if someone recognized that he created a team, and mentored him on what resources he would need to create
[21:32] <atoponce> such as IRC, mailing list, wiki and launchpad
[21:33] <atoponce> and that's what we want to accomplish. help them recognize where they are, and what they need to do to get to where they want to be
[21:33] <atoponce> ok. i've been blabbing quite a bit on this. are there any questions?
[21:35] <atoponce> it's probably pretty self-explanatory
[21:37] <atoponce> earlier, when giving my presentation about loco teams in general, i was asked about resources that help build a loco team
[21:37] <atoponce> i think the question was by BonesolTeraDyne, iirc
[21:37] <BonesolTeraDyne> yup
[21:37] <atoponce> we hope, as a mentoring spec, that we can get these resources pooled in the USTeams area of the wiki
[21:38] <atoponce> ultimately, these are the questions that new and struggling teams ask
[21:38] <atoponce> "what do i do?"  "where can i hold an install fest?"  "how can I attract more members to the team?"  etc
[21:39] <atoponce> at the moment, mentors are just answering these questions on a one-by-one basis to the teams that are asking them
[21:39] <atoponce> but, i would love to see these things on the wiki in a centralized location, if it doesn't already exist
[21:40] <atoponce> i'll warn you though- mentoring is addicting. :)
[21:40] <atoponce> it's fun to see who does what and how they have built their own team
[21:41] <atoponce> oh. i almost forgot. there are a few standards that the US Teams need to adhere to. it's still up for debate at this point, but thus far is as follows:
[21:41] <atoponce> IRC: ubuntu-<statename>.  EG: #ubuntu-utah, #ubuntu-newyork, etc
[21:41] <atoponce> Launchpad: ubuntu-<statename> also
[21:42] <atoponce> mailing list: ubuntu-us-<state_prefix>.  EG: ubuntu-us-ut, ubuntu-us-ny
[21:42] <atoponce> ubuntu forums: <statename>.ubuntuforums.org.  EG: utah.ubuntuforums.org
[21:43] <atoponce> wiki: wiki.ubuntu.com/<SatetName>.  EG:  wiki.ubuntu.com/UtahTeam, wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam, etc
[21:44] <atoponce> finally. some of the mentors have talents in certain areas that others do not.
[21:44] <atoponce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USTeams/MentorList shows the current mentors and what their strong-suits are
[21:45] <atoponce> so, if you have questions with setting up your irc channel, for example, i would love to help you get that in order with chanserv, as well as channel modes, ops, etc
[21:46] <johnc4510> atoponce, sorry to arrive late, will there be a posted log of this discussion anywhere?
[21:46] <atoponce> johnc4510: np. :)
[21:46] <cjb_ie> johnc4510: see topic
[21:47] <johnc4510> ty
[21:47] <atoponce> so, to wrap up, the US Teams Mentoring Project has been a HUGE, and I mean ***HUGE*** success, due to the generosity of team members willing to help other team members
[21:48] <atoponce> for those in the US, stop by #ubuntu-us or hit us up on the mailing list
[21:48] <atoponce> on a global level, stop by #ubuntu-locoteams and ubuntu-lococontacts for the mailing list
[21:49] <atoponce> let's look beyond our own team if we're already approved, or very successful, and help out those that we recognize need it
[21:50] <atoponce> thx for your time. this year's openweek has been awesome! there have been some good content here. it's a shame it's coming to and end. :)
[21:51] <atoponce> there are 10min left. i'm glad to answer any questions about the project in -chat if you have any
[21:52] <samgee> thanks for the session atoponce
[21:53] <atoponce> samgee: np. hope you enjoyed it. :)
[21:53] <atoponce> 14:52 < BonesolTeraDyne> QUESTION: What do you recommend we do to get our LoCo members to be more active? Well,  besides looking up their addresses, going to their homes, and poking them with a stick.
[21:53] <atoponce> BonesolTeraDyne: well.....
[21:54] <atoponce> basically, incentives to attend meetings. in the utah team, we have a book program, where if you read a book, and review it, we keep getting more books from publishers
[21:54] <atoponce> at times, we'll hold drawing to hand out these books. just give them away. that seems to draw a few members in
[21:54] <atoponce> also, quarterly bbqs/dinners at a loco cafe or backyard are always fun as well
[21:55] <BonesolTeraDyne> And if your fellow members seem to be anti-social? (Read: Arkansas Team)
[21:55] <atoponce> heh
[21:55] <atoponce> well, poking them with a stick sounds like a good option then. :)
[21:56] <atoponce> remember, that your team is only as active as the leader is
[21:56] <BonesolTeraDyne> Thanks.
[21:56] <atoponce> if the leader is pounding the mailing list, and sparking conversation in the irc channel, then you'll probably get more activity
[21:56] <atoponce> but it starts with the leader. :)
[21:56] <BonesolTeraDyne> Sadly, I'm not leader, and our leader is reletivly inactive, so that makes sense.
[21:57] <atoponce> but i would just recommend activities. maybe handing out cds at the local shopping centre
[21:57] <atoponce> stuff to make them social. :)
[21:57] <atoponce> and of course, free swag *always* works
[21:58] <BonesolTeraDyne> Thanks for the answer. I'll try to prod some activity into the group. Well, as best as I can, anyway.
[21:58] <atoponce> motivation is contagious. all it takes is just one.
[21:59] <atoponce> well, i think my time is up. thx again for letting me present on this topic. it's exciting to see the growth throughout the community
[21:59] <popey> thanks atoponce
[21:59] <BonesolTeraDyne> thanks atoponce
[21:59] <atoponce> np
[21:59] <atoponce> remember #ubuntu-us. :)
[22:00] <atoponce> "The United States of Ubuntu"
[22:00] <popey> remember all the other country locos too :)
[22:03] <PriceChild> *wonders if imbrandon has gone to fosscamp/uds*
[22:03] <popey> i have not seen him here
[22:03] <popey> no clue what he looks like tho :)
[22:08] <PriceChild> hey popey :)
[22:10] <jjesse> popey: you at foscamp already?  heading out tomrrow to UDS
[22:10] <popey> yes
[22:45] <speeddemon8803> wow


[20:26] <snwh> 3 humans 2 bots
[21:01] <toddy> hi snwh
[21:02] <snwh> i dropped in to see what's going on
[21:02] <toddy> nothing special at the moment
[21:06] <snwh> evidently :)


[02:20] <Chloric> evening florida
[02:55] <DammitJim> man, who knew that mysql was so different from postgresql
[11:35] <mhall119> I did
[12:37] <maxolasersquad> Anyone interested in trying out the new Ubuntu Monospace font, sign up at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-typeface-interest
[12:37] <maxolasersquad> I've been using it for a week now and I really enjoy it.
[12:40] <maxolasersquad> itnet7: ping
[14:54] <maxolasersquad> This new book lens is awesome.  I love it.
[15:00] <mhall119> yeah, it looks great
[15:29] <thinkjson> How do you capture the PID of a process you put into the background?
[15:30] <thinkjson> ah - found it. echo $! > pidfile
[15:37] <thinkjson> hmm. doesn't work in a shell script...
[16:39] <mhall119> I thought $$ was pid
[18:29] <thinkjson> mhall119: that gives me the PID of the bash shell
[18:29] <thinkjson> how are you, by the way?
[18:46] <mhall119> good
[18:46] <mhall119> thinkjson: it gives the pid of the current process
[18:47] <mhall119> what piod do you want?
[20:19] <thinkjson> mhall119: process put into the background
[20:19] <thinkjson> glad to hear things are good
[20:19] <thinkjson> enjoying Canonical?
[20:21] <mhall119> yup, busy but fun
[20:21] <mhall119> I was just wondering about you the other day
[20:22] <mhall119> how's the family?