[11:38] <mpt> Hi, I’m stuck on step 8 of <https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC>: “ssh -A lpdev.local to connect to the container.” I get the error: “ssh: Could not resolve hostname lpdev.local: Name or service not known”
[11:38] <mpt> Do I need to add it to /etc/hosts or something?
[11:39] <cjwatson> avahi is supposed to take care of that
[11:39] <cjwatson> However, there can be problems if the container's networking hasn't come up properly
[11:39] <cjwatson> What does "sudo lxc-ls --fancy" say?
[11:40] <mpt> NAME   STATE    IPV4        IPV6  AUTOSTART
[11:40] <mpt> -------------------------------------------
[11:40] <mpt> lpdev  RUNNING  <IP_ADDRESS>  -     NO
[11:41] <cjwatson> And you did step 5, installing avahi-daemon in the container?
[11:41] <mpt> avahi-daemon is already the newest version.

[11:41] <cjwatson> Does "sudo avahi-browse -at | grep lpdev" print anything?
[11:42] <mpt> cjwatson, it exits without output
[11:42] <cjwatson> Hmm
[11:42] <cjwatson> I have to admit that I stopped using lucid containers for LP a while ago
[11:42] <cjwatson> wgrant: possibly we should update Running/LXC to recommend precise
[11:43] <cjwatson> mpt: It might be worth retrying with precise - you can call the container something different like "precise-lpdev" to avoid having to redo the lucid work if that turns out not to help
[11:43] <mpt> ok, I’ll try that, thanks
[11:43] <cjwatson> There's only a limited extent to which it makes sense to try to fix lucid at this stage, I think
[11:43] <cjwatson> And the majority of LP is on precise now ...
[11:59] <mpt> Doing the lxc-create, I’m getting a lot of “Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)”
[11:59] <mpt> Does that mean I’m out of disk space?
[12:00] <cjwatson> Shouldn't, that literally just means /dev/pts isn't mounted in (I suppose) the container
[12:00] <cjwatson> Probably a bug in the lxc template
[12:00] <mpt> ok
[12:00] <cjwatson> Relatively harmless during creation though
[12:07] <mpt> Well, the container won’t start up like the lucid one did: “lpdev-precise login: <4>init: setvtrgb main process (270) terminated with status 1”
[12:07] <mpt> Oh, I just needed to press Enter X-)
[12:11] <cjwatson> Ah, yeah, that's just overlapping output
[12:11] <cjwatson> Unsightly but harmless
[12:16] <mpt> Success: Thanks cjwatson
[12:21] <cjwatson> Great
[12:22] <wgrant> cjwatson: Indeed. I'll run through it with precise next week just to make sure nothing else needs fixing.
[12:23]  * mpt wonders what the past tense of “troubleshoot” is. Troubleshooted? Troubleshot?
[12:25] <cjwatson> investigated
[12:25] <cjwatson> It's one of those irregular verbs. :-)
[12:25] <mpt> Troubleshat
[12:25] <wgrant> Heh
[12:26] <cjwatson> problemgeschossen [yes yes I know]
[12:44] <jpds> mpt: Now ask yourself what the past tense of 'tweet' is.
[12:48] <mpt> jpds, I believe you are referring to http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/jul/29/david-cameron-apology-radio-twitter
[12:48] <cjwatson> I discovered around new year that the Irish for "to tweet" is tvuíteáil, which is rather mine
[12:48] <cjwatson> *nice
[12:48] <cjwatson> (where did "mine" come from?)
[14:03] <jtv> cjwatson: If I were of the Freudian persuation, I'd say you were greedy.  :)


[04:04] <danbeam> Anybody here know how I'd start a launcher item with a different $DISPLAY, i.e. with Xephyr?  I need to debug a segfault with gdb and just attaching to the process and trying to debug a breakpoint blocks my whole desktop.  Would just adding :1 in front of the command in the .desktop file work?  I'm trying to fix download progress for the launcher icon in Chromium on Ubuntu 11.10.  Any help would be appreciated.
[04:24] <danbeam> adding DISPLAY=:1 **
[04:28] <danbeam> (guess not...)


[07:29] <tomas_> guys
[07:29] <tomas_> there is a crisis here, sort of
[07:29] <tomas_> does anyone knows about editable areas?
[07:30] <tristanmike> with "sudo" everything is editable, can you expand ?
[07:30] <tristanmike> or kdesu
[07:30] <tomas_> web pages
[07:30] <tomas_> there is something called editable areas which doesnt seems to work with firefox and opera :/
[07:31] <onami2> hello, how do i disable agpgart from discover on breezy ? the nvidia binary drivers freeze becasue of it on Option NvAgp 1
[07:41] <mendred> onami2: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0150048402/linux/Multiple_Nvidia_Multiple_Head.html#Ch_III
[07:41] <mendred> see the section called chapter 5
[07:42] <onami2> mendred, thank you
[07:43] <mendred> dont thank me yet
[07:43] <mendred> see if it works :)
[07:51] <RasCaL> Hi I am on day three with no net access, I have my laptop here now, can someone please walk me through setting up my wifi card that kubuntu didn't recognize?
[07:51] <gleesond> ok so I wan't to kill my ATI cartd
[07:51] <gleesond> because I can't get X to work
[07:52] <gleesond> I did what the ATI wiki told me to do but it didn't fix any thing
[07:52] <gleesond> could it be that I have the busID wrong in the xorg.conf file
[07:52] <gleesond> because its something like PCI:1:0:0 but its a agp card
[07:54] <tomas_> guys
[07:55] <tomas_> please help me install internet explorer for iwne
[07:55] <tomas_> wine
[07:55] <tomas_> *-)
[07:55] <RasCaL> tomas_ is that a joke?
[07:55] <tomas_> NO
[07:55] <RasCaL> it it is funny :P
[07:55] <tomas_> why would it be one?
[07:56] <tomas_> i dont want internet explorer
[07:56] <tomas_> but my cousin needs it for a webpage :/
[07:56] <RasCaL> ?
[07:56] <RasCaL> you said it
[07:56] <tomas_> there is something called contentEditable or something like that
[07:56] <RasCaL> I doubt it would work for whatever reason he would need it
[07:56] <tomas_> that doesnt work well in either opera or mozila :/
[07:56] <tomas_> ?
[07:56] <tomas_> please tell me how to install ie if you know
[07:57] <RasCaL> I have never done it
[07:57] <tomas_> oki
[07:57] <tomas_> the normal guides doesnt apply here
[07:57] <RasCaL> tomas_ I haven't used IE in almost 6 years
[07:57] <tomas_> nice :)
[07:57] <tomas_> im not using it either
[07:57] <tomas_> if im not in windows :P
[07:57] <tomas_> and thats not very often :P
[07:57] <RasCaL> perhaps downloading the .exe and open with wine to see what happens?
[07:58] <mendred> tomas_: easiest would be to use crossover office they have a demo u can use for 30 days
[07:58] <tomas_> :/
[07:59] <tomas_> RasCal: you dont think that i have :p. that was funny ;)
[07:59] <mendred> tomas_: it downloads and installs ie for u too
[07:59] <tomas_> mendred: no, too much work. but i will try with something. thank you anyway
[07:59] <tomas_> it must be something free and not a demo
[07:59] <tomas_> anyway
[07:59] <tomas_> thanks
[07:59] <tomas_> bye
[08:00] <mendred> tomas_: wc :)
[08:00] <mathiasbr> someone have news about easy ubuntu and its future!?
[08:00] <mathiasbr> :)
[08:01] <constantine-xvi> anyone have problems with kscreensaver locking you out?
[08:01] <chumphries> regarding ie on wine, use this -> http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/
[08:01] <chumphries> constantine-xvi: yes
[08:02] <constantine-xvi> know how to fix it?
[08:02] <RasCaL> he left chumphries but I will bookmark :P
[08:02] <chumphries> no idea
[08:02] <chumphries> okie dokie
[08:03] <RasCaL> I installed and never asked for root password
[08:03] <chumphries> ies4linux works great, just run it and ie can be installed for you
[08:03] <RasCaL> only user
[08:03] <constantine-xvi> RasCaL: that is a feature
[08:03] <RasCaL> I need Administrator Mode for Network setup and it will not open now
[08:03] <constantine-xvi> RasCaL: sudo /command/
[08:03] <chumphries> put in your password, runs via sudo.
[08:03] <mendred> chumphries:  thats awesome
[08:03] <RasCaL> for KDE Control Module??
[08:03] <RasCaL> negative
[08:04] <_mindspin> kdesu is better if firing up a gui app
[08:04] <constantine-xvi> RasCaL: yes, yours
[08:04] <chumphries>  sudo bash , then change your password
[08:04] <constantine-xvi> RasCaL: kdesu, sudo, whatever works
[08:04] <_mindspin> better/more reliable
[08:04] <munzir> Hi, I can't update using adept. I get this error any help: there was an error commiting changes. Possibly there was a problem downloading some packages or the commit would break packages.
[08:04] <RasCaL> I am telling you it loads, refreshes interfaces and I am back to the panel with no admin rights
[08:05] <RasCaL> using the only password I enetered
[08:05] <chumphries> RasCaL: interesting, never happened to me
[08:05] <RasCaL> ok :(
[08:05] <RasCaL> I will install again
[08:05] <_mindspin> It happened to me on kde 3.41
[08:05] <chumphries> munzir: maybe run apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade on a root shell?
[08:06] <chumphries> ahh, i am using kde 3.5.1 on dapper
[08:06] <RasCaL> _mindspindid re-install fix it for you?
[08:06] <_mindspin> no i upgraded to 3.51
[08:06] <_mindspin> now it works but I'm on breezy
[08:07] <RasCaL> I can't upgrade with no net access :(
[08:07] <RasCaL> that is what I am trying to get on
[08:07] <RasCaL> LOL
[08:07] <_mindspin> although my resolv.conf is always overwritten
[08:07] <_mindspin> I have to edit the file every morning when I boot to get nameservice working
[08:08] <RasCaL> haha
[08:08] <_mindspin> yeah funny
[08:08] <_mindspin> it came out of a sudden
[08:08] <munzir> chumphries: apt-get works and synaptic also works but I am interested in adept. adept even fetch the updates but not install it
[08:08] <RasCaL> breezy as in edubuntu?
[08:08] <_mindspin> "didn't change anything" ;-)
[08:09] <_mindspin> breezy as in kubuntu breezy
[08:09] <RasCaL> ahh
[08:09] <RasCaL> that is the ISO am I trying it on
[08:09] <RasCaL> I must need to reinstall
[08:10] <_tijn> hi all
[08:11] <_tijn> i upgraded to dapper, but now i cant play xvid's
[08:11] <_tijn> i installed w32codecs
[08:11] <_tijn> but... nope
[08:12] <tibs01> ok
[08:12] <tibs01> my webcam freezesz
[08:12] <tibs01> my computer
[08:12] <tibs01> when i try to load it
[08:13] <tibs01> through messenger
[08:15] <_tijn> can is use seveas breezy in dapper?
[08:15] <tsukihime> !java
[08:15] <ubotu> To install Java/Sun Java see Java on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats and also see !javadebs
[08:22] <anarko> hi!
[08:26] <_jonathan> another weird question...I'm playing ut2004 and i have dual monitors
[08:26] <_jonathan> when it full screens it goes across both...is there a way to prevent this ?
[08:34] <anarko> alguien espaol?
[08:39] <ccc_> !es
[08:39] <ubotu> Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda.
[08:45] <crimsun> Skrot: patches sent.
[08:47] <ninHer> hi all
[08:47] <jtshaw> hey hey
[08:47] <Skrot> crimsun: good. Are you sure that's the problem or is there anything else I can do to further determine it?
[08:52] <crimsun> Skrot: I'm sure that's the problem.
[08:53] <Skrot> crimsun: Great :)
[09:07] <dedy> hi
[09:08] <dedy> i read news that dapper will be delayed till 1 of june
[09:08] <robotgeek> Al-Daja-aWay: please turn off public away
[09:09] <Al-Daja-aWay> sorry sorry
[09:10] <robotgeek> dedy: yes, you are right
[09:11] <osh_> no default player in kubuntu that plays realmedia (rm) files?
[09:11] <dedy> thanks robotgeek
[09:11] <dedy> i am using ubuntu flight 4 currently
[09:11] <dedy> did dist-upgrade last week
[09:12] <dedy> ash: install realplayer
[09:12] <dedy> how can I know the current version of my ubuntu? for example it is flight 5 now...maybe
[09:13] <dedy> osh: you need to install real player to play rm files
[09:13] <robotgeek> !w32codecs
[09:13] <ubotu> w32codecs is probably a compilation of binary win32 A/V codecs for many popular proprietary formats not currently supported by free implementations under linux. See http://tinyurl.com/e4a5s to install
[09:13] <osh_> so no plugin for kaffeine or something?
[09:14] <robotgeek> osh_: ^^ that and kaffeine-xine
[09:14] <osh_> robotgeek: thx
[09:14] <anarko> hi
[09:14] <uniq> dedy: you can't flight N is just the name of the cdimage. you can find the version of your ubuntu with the command 'cat /etc/issue' in a terminal.
[09:15] <anarko> how to listen mp3 in kubuntu???
[09:15] <anarko> alguien espaol?
[09:15] <dedy> Ubuntu 6.04 "Dapper Drake" Development Branch
[09:15] <uniq> anarko: you can try #kubuntu-es
[09:16] <anarko> uniq , thanks
[09:16] <dedy> uniq: does the /etc/issue will be update once I am in final state?
[09:17] <dedy> i mean when i do dist-upgrade againt 1 of june release?
[09:17] <Coffee_Runner> any1 know why some of my wmv files will run fine...but others the audio just wont work? I have all the codecs and like...4 players...they all produce the same results
[09:19] <uniq> dedy: yes, the 'Development Branch' part will disappear.
[09:20] <JasonF> is there a desktop widgets program for kde (similar to yahoo widgets for win/mac)
[09:24] <frank23> Coffee_Runner: try the ones that don't work with mplayer
[09:25] <theine> Does anybody know how to disable auto-completion in konqueror search bar (the one that shows up when browsing the web)?
[09:27] <timas> Question.. how do I view which drivers I'm using for a device? In this particulair case, a webcam
[09:28] <robotgeek> timas: if it is usb, try lsusb
[09:29] <uniq> theine_: rightclick -> text completion (or something)..
[09:29] <Parkotron> Does anyone here use Kile, and if so do they have inverse search working?
[09:31] <timas> robotgeek, that works.. any idea on how I can see the version for those drivers?
[09:31] <robotgeek> timas: possible type dmesg | grep "name of driver"
[09:33] <timas> nope.. that just outputs a ton of stuff, but nothing matches "Logitech" or "Quickcam" hrm.. any other ideas?
[09:34] <noteventime> join #dosbox
[09:36] <noteventime> Any dosbox users in here?
[09:38] <timas> woops
[09:38] <timas> dmesg wasn't the way to go.. I'd welcome other ideas :)
[09:39] <robotgeek> timas: not sure, really.
[09:40] <timas> no worries, its for a bugpost.. I'll add that they might want to give me some instructions on how to get the info if they need more :P
[09:40] <pestilence> is it possible to have two different set of desktop settings, one for monitor 1 and another for monitor 2?
[09:42] <signalvsnoise> the information on framebuffers at tlpd.org seems very outdated... anyone know where I can find more recent docs?
[09:43] <timas> this is kind of emberacing .. but what if you forget your irc password? :P  From the golden age of chat I remembered how to register, but I must've been so far into falling asleep that I just typed something.. I can't for the life of me retrieve my password..
[09:44] <_nexus10_> Hi. I'm trying to boot a Kubuntu Breezy CD in an old (1999) AMD box with Mitsumi CDROM - it can't find a boot record. Any idea what I can try?
[09:45] <_nexus10_> It boots from a Gentoo CD no problem.
[09:45] <timas> nexus, you sure the CD's burned properly/
[09:45] <robotgeek> _nexus10_: maybe it is a problem with the cd, did you burn at low speeds?
[09:45] <_nexus10_> yup
[09:46] <_nexus10_> tested in other machines - np
[09:46] <_nexus10_> and I have 2 copies - same with both
[09:48] <timas> not really sure.. only thing I can come up with is the other machines having better drives..
[09:48] <pestilence> _nexus10_, is the gentoo cd the same brand as the ubuntu cd?
[09:48] <nalioth> timas: type /stats p and msg a staffer
[09:49] <_nexus10_> checking...
[09:50] <_nexus10_> yup - all imation, from the same batch
[09:50] <pestilence> dunno.
[09:50] <dedy> hi
[09:50] <dedy> anybody use klik in ubuntu dapper?
[09:50] <dedy> it ask for "ar"?
[09:51] <timas> thats in the base-something package
[09:51] <dedy> anyone have similar problem?
[09:51] <timas> I saw this come by on the forums.. hold on!
[09:51] <dedy> binutils?
[09:51] <nico8481> hi
[09:51] <dedy> timas: ok
[09:53] <JakubS_> omg, this adept stuff is damn slow
[09:53] <timas> dedy: try binutils yeah.. still looking but that seems to ring a bell
[09:53] <JakubS_> select 20 packages, 'request removal', gui blocked for 20s
[09:53] <dedy> timas: let me try
[09:53] <mornfall> that's a secret feature
[09:54] <mornfall> you are the first one to complain i can recall
[09:54] <mornfall> that's why it never got optimized -- noone complains => noone cares
[09:54] <dedy> timas: i am apt-getting. thanks
[09:55] <mornfall> fact is 90% processing is done n times instead of once (where n is number of packages)
[09:55] <timas> I haven't had that issue yet with adept.. its been amazingly quick for me
[09:55] <timas> np dedy :)
[09:55] <mornfall> JakubS_: see :)
[09:55] <mornfall> everyone else apparently thinks it is fast ;-)
[09:55] <mornfall> i don't believe them either
[09:57] <kokurya-kai> hallo, ich bin nicht kokurya-kai, der hat mir kubuntu nur auf den rechner getan ...    und ich kann noch nicht einmal eine avi datei unter linux ffnen
[09:57] <arrinmurr> !de
[09:57] <ubotu> Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu und Kubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de resp. #kubuntu-de
[09:57] <kokurya-kai> oder meinen nickname im konversation ndern
[09:57] <kokurya-kai> danke
[09:57] <mornfall> kokurya-kai: /nick <nickname>
[09:58] <mornfall> where you put what you want as nickname instead of <nickname>
[09:58] <mornfall> :-)
[09:58] <skaos> yipiiiiiiiiii
[09:59] <skaos> thx
[09:59] <nico8481> how can i check whether my usb ports support 2.0 or not ?
[10:00] <jtshaw> konvi has indentification profiles
[10:00] <jtshaw> if you change the default so it puts your desired name first.... you should be fine
[10:01] <skaos> didn't know that this was an english channel
[10:01] <skaos> sry
[10:03] <arrinmurr> skaos: i've always wondered this so i have to ask: why did you think this would be german channel? ;)
[10:05] <skaos> arrinmurr: yesterday a friend installed linux, and i can't even open avi, so i did the first thing, that appeared in my mind, go to the first linux channel you find and ask
[10:06] <skaos> and a searched for it in german so i thought the link would be german
[10:07] <Armagguedes> greetings
[10:07] <arrinmurr> skaos: ok, i've just seen a lot of people trying to ask questions in german and i've always wondered what makes them think the language in main ubuntu channels is german. that goes for a lot of other channels too though ;)
[10:08] <eugman> If my loadup screen before gdm changed to kubuntu is there any danger in removing kubuntu desktop?
[10:08] <Armagguedes> will the final dapper feature kernel 2.6.16 (or .4. or wtv)
[10:08] <Armagguedes> the very latest
[10:08] <timas> Eugman, not as far as I know
[10:08] <eugman> Any idea what will happen?
[10:08] <JakubS_> nico8481: run hal-device-manager and look for 'USB2 EHCI Controller'
[10:08] <timas> the kubuntu desktop package is just depandant on all the packets that get installed by default by Kubuntu
[10:08] <morzel> hi
[10:08] <jtshaw> Armagguedes: I'm not what I would call "in the know" but I've heard it won't be upgraded from 2.6.15
[10:09] <morzel> is there any who used graphviz?
[10:09] <JakubS_> it's good to keep it around for upgrades
[10:09] <Armagguedes> hm ok
[10:09] <timas> I think it just means your Kubuntu desktop is complete, nothing more or less..  mind you, I'm not 100% sure
[10:09] <Armagguedes> prolly anything else would be too hardcore? =)
[10:09] <Armagguedes> does .16 add anything worth mentioning?
[10:10] <eugman> Hmm a better question: Are the packages is a *-Desktop at all linked to the loadup init thingy?
[10:10] <timas> Armagguedes, on the forum they say DD is gonna stick with .15
[10:10] <eugman> er in a desktop
[10:11] <timas> Something to do with SUSE and another distro also sticking to the .15 for their enterprise releases and that the whole thing has been built on .15 so far..
[10:11] <nico8481> JakubS_: there are no such entries :( only 2 USB 1.0 controllers
[10:11] <jtshaw> You can read the changelog for 2.6.16 at www.kernel.org
[10:11] <nico8481> JakubS_: but i see stuff about usb2.0 in dmesg however (?!)
[10:11] <timas> I'm not sure what you're asking eugman.. you mean like, if I get the kubuntu-desktop, will it run KDE packages when I start KDE?
[10:11] <jtshaw> http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.16
[10:12] <JakubS_> try modprobe ehci_hcd
[10:12] <eugman> Let me elaborate.
[10:12] <mornfall> wtf is simplymepis
[10:12] <eugman> I installed kubuntu desktop along side of my gnome to try it out recently
[10:12] <NeverDream> hey, guys
[10:12] <nico8481> JakubS_: worked
[10:12] <NeverDream> quick question, is there a wrapper package for qt dev libs like build-essential?
[10:13] <jehnx> NeverDream: I've been looking up your question now for 10 minutes, hehe.
[10:13] <jehnx> I can't find anything myself.
[10:13] <nico8481> JakubS_: i mean the module loaded without error
[10:13] <eugman> At some point after gdm not working because of a new video card the brown icon that says ubuntu before gdm changed to kubuntu.
[10:13] <JakubS_> nico8481: you have something like 'USB 2.0 started, EHCI 1.00...' in dmesg?
[10:13] <eugman> If I remove the KDE stuff will this affect the loader that is right before gdm?
[10:13] <timas> the boot splash?
[10:13] <eugman> yeah
[10:14] <timas> now there's a good question :P
[10:14] <jehnx> Even after removing kubuntu-desktop, I think the boot splash stays.
[10:14] <nico8481> JakubS_: nope
[10:14] <JakubS_> nico8481: out of luck i guess
[10:14] <NeverDream> thanks, jehnx :)
[10:14] <nico8481> JakubS_: hub 2-0:1.0: USB hub found
[10:14] <eugman> I don't mind if it says kubuntu for ever I just want to make sure it'll still boot properly.
[10:15] <JakubS_> nico8481: ah, it is only bus address, not anything about USB2
[10:15] <nico8481> damn yes, dumb me :)
[10:15] <nico8481> ok so i need a new comp :-)
[10:15] <jehnx> eugman: Yeah, it should start up just fine.
[10:16] <nico8481> any suggestion for a laptop that works well (as in "everything works") with (k)ubuntu ?
[10:17] <jtshaw> I hear the HP NC6000 series works great.. a fwe of my co-workers have them and use Kubuntu
[10:17] <robotgeek> !laptop
[10:17] <ubotu> somebody said laptop was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportMachinesLaptops or http://www.linux-laptop.net/ or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam, or tuxmobil.org
[10:17] <jehnx> I know this is a really n00b question, but any way I can remove packages but keep "kubuntu-desktop"?  I don't want some of the things that it came with, but removing them is going to force me to take off kubuntu-desktop as well.
[10:17] <nico8481> thx
[10:18] <nico8481> jehnx: kubuntu-desktop is  just a meta-package, everything it installed will not be removed with it
[10:18] <jehnx> Ohh, nice.
[10:18] <nico8481> (at least i think so :p)
[10:18] <jehnx> So I can just tell Synaptic "ok" and it won't kill everything.
[10:19] <nico8481> i'd say it's ok :)
[10:19] <xrusto> Can anyone, how to resolve Adept? Doesnt start.
[10:20] <dereks> resolve? eh?
[10:20] <nico8481> robotgeek: did you notice that most of the laptops listed on linux-laptop are obsolete? :)
[10:20] <jehnx> nico8481: It worked fine.  :)
[10:21] <xrusto> dereks: I dont know why Adept will not start.
[10:21] <nico8481> robotgeek: i wish i could grep these sites for "everything works" :-)
[10:22] <xrusto> and have anyone Laptop Asus A6U?
[10:22] <heinkel_111> hello :)
[10:22] <heinkel_111> i have lost my "loadspeaker" icon voluime control button in the system tray
[10:23] <heinkel_111> err. "loudspeaker"
[10:23] <dereks> xrusto: try starting from the CLI
[10:23] <heinkel_111> does anyone know how i can restart it?
[10:23] <Marrs> I have a not-everything-works-but-I-don't-care laptop ;)
[10:23] <xrusto> dereks: from CLI ?
[10:23] <dereks> xrusto: command line
[10:25] <jehnx> Anyone have any tips on how I can get my USB sound card to work?  No sound at all, and it's not seeing it in lsusb.
[10:25] <timas> xrusto, did you perhaps just install dapper ?
[10:27] <xrusto> dereks, timas: thank you. It works. :-)) I got now Dapper Kubuntu on Laptop Asus A6U.
[10:28] <tibs01> anyone know how to get my webcam working
[10:28] <tibs01> usb
[10:28] <tibs01> logitech it keeps freezing ?
[10:28] <tibs01> my messenger
[10:30] <timas> tibs01, kopete being the messenger?
[10:30] <slow-motion> re
[10:30] <xrusto> timas: dapper is great distribution. On my Laptop work many thinks. Work not only My Digital Camera Kodak CX7330, MC Card reader and Wifi.
[10:31] <timas> xrusto, dapper is indeed a great distro.. I'm using it too.. just Adept fails for me at first install.. at home, and today after installation at work too.. I have to update it from the online reposits
[10:32] <lilminime> Hi, I have a problem connecting to a pc via ssh, I think its because the pc is through a router, but the port 22 is opened, anyone knows whats the command?
[10:32] <osh_> Can anyone hear this realmedia file with kaffeine? My kaffeine just hangs.
[10:32] <osh_> http://www.sr.se/P3/diverse/AppData/popnonstop/Sounds/popnonstop2C.ram
[10:32] <xrusto> timas: from Idea from dereks I was started Adept from command Line and work.
[10:32] <osh_> I do have the xine-version installed. perhaps it's a config option.
[10:33] <xrusto> timas: now I can install WINE.
[10:34] <yuriy> mine seems to play that file but no sound
[10:34] <timas> xrusto sounds like a plan :)
[10:34] <lubo> hello, linux experts, what application I can use to connect to unternet using dial-au modem? thanks
[10:34] <lilminime> i know the command for connection using ssh to connect to a remote pc is: sudo ssh -l username <ipadress>. But i dont know the command for connecting to a pc through a router? Please help me, emergency
[10:34] <osh_> gamemank: That answer was for me? It's supposed to be radio so if there isn't any sound it's kind of pointless. ;-)
[10:35] <lubo> or better question what is the easiest way to do it?
[10:36] <gamemank> well, it doesn't hang... but no sound.. yeah pointless
[10:36] <xrusto> timas: thats right :-) Do you can anyone with Laptop Asus A6U ?
[10:36] <gamemank> but hey i think its an improvement.. i was trying to see if kaffeine works yesterday because i dont use it, and it was just crashing trying to play ANYTHING
[10:36] <lilminime> please anyone
[10:36] <osh_> gamemank: It's progress I assume. A non-hanging version is better than a hanging one. =)
[10:37] <osh_> lilminime: you don't need the ssh part and if it's a router it should just let you through. what's the real problem?
[10:37] <osh_> lilminime: sorry, the SUDO part. the ssh is essential.
[10:38] <lilminime> It cant connect, even tought the port is opened
[10:38] <timas> xrusto, nope, no-one in my surroundings uses a laptop with Linux..
[10:39] <osh_> lilminime: do a ssh -vv username@ipaddr and have a look at the output. That's debug mode. It might tell you something.
[10:39] <timas> lilminime, you sure its open? try run--- right, like osh_ said.. else, try "telnet <theIP> 22" and see if it lets you in
[10:39] <osh_> lilminime: that's two small v. not a w.
[10:40] <jehnx> How can I bind an f-key (like f4) to open an application automatically?  I know when I've got konqueror open, I can do f4 to get konsole up, but otherwise I can't (of course).  Is there an easy way to do this?
[10:40] <lilminime> osh_: That gave me this output: silje@ubuntu:~$ ssh -vv<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:40] <lilminime> OpenSSH_4.1p1 Debian-7ubuntu4.1, OpenSSL 0.9.7g 11 Apr 2005
[10:40] <lilminime> debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config
[10:40] <lilminime> debug1: Applying options for *
[10:40] <lilminime> debug2: ssh_connect: needpriv 0
[10:40] <lilminime> debug1: Connecting to <IP_ADDRESS> [<IP_ADDRESS>]  port 22.
[10:40] <lilminime> debug1: connect to address <IP_ADDRESS> port 22: Connection refused
[10:40] <lilminime> ssh: connect to host <IP_ADDRESS> port 22: Connection refused
[10:41] <osh_> !pastebin
[10:41] <ubotu> rumour has it, pastebin is a site where you can post large texts and screenshots so you don't flood the channel. You can find it at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org - Install webboard for easy pasting from the gnome taskbar ,
[10:41] <timas> hhrm.. are you trying to connect with a root user perhaps?
[10:41] <lilminime> yes, stian is the root user
[10:41] <osh_> lilminime: that looks like ssh isn't running on the target machine to me.
[10:41] <mornfall> it says connection refused
[10:42] <lilminime> osh_: /etc/init.d/ssh start to start it?
[10:42] <mornfall> that usually means that the other end is not listening on the specified port
[10:42] <mornfall> sshd running?
[10:42] <lilminime> how do he start it? /etc/init.d/ssh start?
[10:42] <osh_> lilminime: probably, or sshd
[10:42] <mornfall> -->
[10:42] <mornfall> laters
[10:42] <lilminime> ok, thx, ill trie that
[10:43] <osh_> lilminime: do that. good luck.
[10:44] <viktor> quit
[10:45] <mts^> is there an issue with kubuntu dapper drake and the msttcorefonts?
[10:46] <timas> are you experiencing an issue ?
[10:46] <douglas__> I havn't tried them, what are you using them for?
[10:46] <douglas__> Boobies
[10:46] <timas> ..
[10:47] <mts^> yes, I seem to have an issue
[10:47] <douglas__> mts^: What are you using them for?
[10:47] <WolfManz611> How do i get my drive icons up on the desktop?
[10:47] <timas> mts^, elaborate, please
[10:47] <timas> WolfManz, KDE or Gnome desktop?
[10:47] <mts^> nah, it was just me behaving like an ass as usual :)
[10:47] <WolfManz611> kde
[10:48] <timas> right click the desktop, click behavior, click Device Icons
[10:48] <timas> et voila, or at least, I think thats what aught to be it :)
[10:49] <tibs01> yes timas
[10:49] <tibs01> kopete being the messenger#
[10:50] <timas> I reported a bug just an hour ago about Kopete crashing when I attempt to open the 'devices' item in the configure menu..
[10:50] <WolfManz611> Timas ya i have everything there checked off and no drive icons
[10:51] <timas> hm, not sure in that case Wolf, perhaps try out the ubuntuforums and see if anyone else has/had this issue? I seem to recall it coming past before..
[10:52] <tibs01> timas
[10:52] <tibs01> erm
[10:52] <timas> yesm?
[10:52] <tibs01> how do i get to device icons
[10:52] <tibs01> in here so i can view my devices
[10:53] <timas> You need an overview of your devices?
[10:57] <tibs01> yer i want to have alook at my webcam
[10:57] <tibs01> it keeps freezing when i load it
[10:58] <timas> open a console, type lsusb
[10:58] <osh_> I get this error with the avahi-daemon. I seem to remember a fix (installing a depending packag) but can't remember which. do you guys know?
[10:58] <timas> osh_ I had an error with the avahi.. apt-get update && apt-get upgrade fixed that for me
[10:59] <osh_> timas: unfortunatly it doesn't for me. :-/
[11:00] <timas> hm, any way to view the depends of avahi-deamon for you?
[11:01] <lilminime> hmm, why doesnt the "wall" command work in ssh running kubuntu?
[11:02] <osh_> According to this bug in launchpad it's depending on libavahi-core3, but an apt-cache search only lists libavahi-core1 as downloadable for me. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/33199
[11:02] <BlackHand> times: apt-cache rdepends package
[11:03] <timas> on Dapper, I can get core4..
[11:03] <osh_> I'm on breezy still. I'm waiting for the real release before upgrading.
[11:04] <osh_> BlackHand: I'm not sure I understood that.
[11:04] <timas> did you enable the backports repository?
[11:04] <lilminime> how do i send messages through ssh?
[11:04] <timas> I think he gave the command to view the dependancies for a packet :)
[11:04] <osh_> I have.
[11:04] <lilminime> isnt it "wall" message?
[11:04] <timas> what kind of messages lilminime?
[11:04] <osh_> Ahh, right. Thanks.
[11:04] <lilminime> broadcast msgs?
[11:05] <BlackHand> times: apt-cache depends package then ?
[11:05] <Petecakes> I was trying to mount my Windows NTFS partition on boot, and I did sudo gedit /etc/fstab and Konsole returned a "gedit: command not found" error.
[11:05] <timas> osh_ not sure.. only option I can imagine at the moment is to compile the ahavi by hand then..
[11:05] <timas> Petecakes, are you using Gnome, or KDE perhaps?
[11:06] <Petecakes> KDE.
[11:06] <BlackHand> Petecakes: sudo kedit /etc/fstab ?
[11:06] <osh_> it claims to be depending on libavahi-core1 and that's installed.
[11:06] <Petecakes> I was following a guide I got linked to from here yesterday.
[11:06] <HymnToLife> rather, kdesu kwrite /etc/fstab :)
[11:06] <Petecakes> hmm, I'll go try those. Back in a sec.
[11:06] <timas> yeah, like they say.. instead of using gedit (a Gnome editor) use kate (a KDE editor, and the default for Kubuntu)
[11:07] <timas> er, but ya'll said something else as kate.. >_< I should read before I answer
[11:08] <osh_> Why not teach "vi". It's time well spent if you're going to be working in unix. Always availible and much easier than "ed". =)
[11:08] <lilminime> anyone?
[11:08] <lilminime> the wall command while useing ssh wont work?
[11:08] <canllaith> Why not let newbies use whatever they want? If you make people learn things like vi before they can do what it is they want to do they'll give up very quickly in frustration.
[11:08] <BlackHand> emacs
[11:08] <_zak> soo, what again is the command do install a .deb file?
[11:09] <timas> ed stinks.. vi is a big learning curve, kate/kwrite/gedit are nice when they are already running a GDM anyhow..
[11:09] <lilminime> dpkg -i _zac
[11:09] <canllaith> dpkg -i
[11:09] <_zak> kthx
[11:09] <BlackHand> _zak> dpkg -i package
[11:09] <canllaith> snap :)
[11:09] <BlackHand> _zak: man dpkg
[11:09] <lilminime> but anyone
[11:09] <Petecakes> HymnToLife; kdesu kwrite /etc/fstab worked. Thanks. :)
[11:09] <timas> osh_ you could try maybe re-installing/updating the whole thing that depends on the libahavi?
[11:09] <lilminime> doesnt a single soule know how to send broadcast messages?
[11:10] <timas> Sorry lilminime, I'm not -that- familair with ssh...
[11:10] <osh_> timas: yeah, who the hell needs a avahi-daemon anyway? ;-)
[11:10] <timas> thats the easy way out ;)
[11:10] <lilminime> timas: Ive always used "wall" command, b ut now it gives me this output: wall: will not read lol - use stdin.
[11:11] <dlt> hi, i have a question plz, when i boot kubuntu cd and choose install to harddrive i get "PCI: cannot allocate resource 7 and 8" and then "cannot find tty" how should i do?
[11:11] <osh_> canllaith: I was just trying to be clever.
[11:12] <osh_> timas: don't be mean to "ed". I learned OOP writing mud-code in "ed". Wasn't the simplest thing I've done. =)
[11:13] <timas> I was a sucker for "Joe" untill I was 'forced' to learn vi(m)
[11:13] <canllaith> I'd rather use emacs than anything else but I find pico/nano pretty friendly. Sadly sometimes on solaris vi is all you got though :(
[11:14] <BlackHand> the first command that you must do after the install
[11:14] <_zak> what is a .rpm?
[11:14] <BlackHand> apt-get install emacs
[11:14] <canllaith> redhat package manager file
[11:14] <_zak> ooh, so no worky on ubuntu i take it
[11:15] <osh_> canllaith: I use emacs more and more too but I find myself putting "i"s in front of a lot of words... But for quick config changes I go for vi every time.
[11:15] <canllaith> I get too frustrated with modal editors
[11:15] <canllaith> and the lack of elisp is frustrating
[11:15] <osh_> _zak: are you willing to learn how to use "alien" you can use rpm's.
[11:16] <_zak> well is there any other way to install ntfs partition reading on ubuntu than from www.linux-ntfs.org
[11:16] <osh_> _zak: ther was an "if" missing in my last sentence.
[11:16] <canllaith> *blink* it's not in the kernel ?
[11:17] <timas> well guys and gals, time for bed
[11:17] <osh_> _zak: and the first two words were swapped. but other than that the words I wrote makes perfect sense. To paraphrase Prof Farnsworth.
[11:18] <timas> work and stuff :(  have a good one!
[11:21] <dlt> can someone help me plz?
[11:21] <_mindspin> !ask
[11:22] <dlt> when i boot kubuntu cd and choose install to harddrive i get "PCI: cannot allocate resource 7 and 8" and then "cannot find tty" how should i do?
[11:22] <dlt> is there any boot command for fixing this_
[11:23] <_mindspin> what kinda keyboard do you have?
[11:23] <_zak> how do you browse HDD?
[11:23] <dlt> im on a laptop
[11:23] <dlt> im on a live cd right now
[11:23] <fit4lfe> hey is it possible to connect with vnc to krfb with out accepting the connection ?
[11:23] <_zak> like, other drives or partitions not in the / directory
[11:24] <dlt> so should i be able to install if i remake partitions?
[11:24] <dlt> ok thnx
[11:24] <_mindspin> do you have space left onyour HD _zak?
[11:24] <fit4lfe> trying to conect to my linnux box and I have a invitation for krfb but everytime I try to conncet remotly I have to accept the connection on the linux box
[11:25] <_mindspin> what is krfb?
[11:25] <_zak> I have a partition of windows, and a partition of linux, how do I browse to see the main directory that just shows the drives?
[11:25] <RS6> Hallo alle
[11:26] <_mindspin> _zak you mean the windows drive?
[11:26] <RS6> wird hier auch deutsch gesprochen ?
[11:26] <_zak> yes
[11:26] <_mindspin> !d
[11:26] <ubotu> _mindspin: Wish I knew. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[11:26] <_mindspin> !ger
[11:26] <ubotu> _mindspin: No idea, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[11:26] <_mindspin> !de
[11:27] <ubotu> Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu und Kubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de resp. #kubuntu-de
[11:27] <_mindspin> ubotu tell _zak about ntfs
[11:30] <Tallia1Kubuntu> hi there
[11:30] <Tallia1Kubuntu> someone can tell me why
[11:30] <Tallia1Kubuntu> after i installed the ati propertary drivers for my ATI Radeon M9000
[11:30] <_zak> says I don't have enough permissions to access my ntfs partition
[11:30] <Tallia1Kubuntu> the xv suport is not offered ?
[11:30] <Tallia1Kubuntu> it worked perfectly before!!
[11:31] <fit4lfe> does any one use krb
[11:31] <fit4lfe> need some help
[11:31] <Blissex> _zak: you need to mount the NTFS partition with either wide permissions or with your own UID/GID
[11:31] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ?
[11:31] <Blissex> _zak: look at the 'uid=', 'gid=' and 'umask=' options in the 'man 8 mount' page for NTFS, or do a Google search with those keywords for a tutorial
[11:31] <Tallia1Kubuntu> does anybody have a clue?
[11:32] <Blissex> Tallia1Kubuntu: try #ATI
[11:32] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ok .
[11:34] <_mindspin> _zak did you read the link ubotu gave you?
[11:34] <_zak> yes
[11:34] <Tallia1Kubuntu> !xv
[11:34] <ubotu> Huh? Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, Tallia1Kubuntu
[11:34] <_mindspin> you are quick reader
[11:34] <Tallia1Kubuntu> !xvinfo
[11:34] <ubotu> Tallia1Kubuntu: Wish I knew. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
[11:35] <ccc_> Tallia1Kubuntu: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=68491
[11:35] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ?
[11:41] <slow-motion> n8
[11:42] <Tallia1Kubuntu> ccc_: tnx i solved my problem
[11:43] <ccc_> np
[11:43] <Tallia1Kubuntu> -vo xvidx works
[11:43] <Tallia1Kubuntu> but i'd like to know what's that xvidx
[11:43] <Tallia1Kubuntu> do you?
[11:44] <Tallia1Kubuntu> and what changes between xvidix only or vo=xvidix:radeon_vid.s
[11:45] <ccc_> Tallia1Kubuntu: check the link in post #3 in the forum thread i linked to above. that explains it
[11:46] <Tallia1Kubuntu> i am reading now
[12:00] <signalvsnoise> if you compile your own kernel and select the subtype of your processor as K8, does that make your kernel a 64 bit kernel?
[12:01] <signalvsnoise> and will that then interfere with non 64bit drivers?


[09:13] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[20:36] <EriC^^> evening Bashing-om
[20:38] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Hiya ! .. Beriut is still there . that is a good thing !
[20:38] <EriC^^> haha
[20:38] <EriC^^> it's pretty stable here
[20:39] <EriC^^> how's it going where you're at?
[20:44] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Wonderful here - temps well below normal for mid-summer . And we got rain ! wow !
[20:44] <EriC^^> nice
[20:45] <Bashing-om> But, now I got to go back to mowing the lawn :(
[20:46] <EriC^^> :D


[01:15] <Scrambler> so where in TExas are yall from?
[01:15] <Scrambler> Me, Dallas.
[01:32] <texaswriter> Arlington


[05:01] <lotuspsychje> morning KBar
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> possible dupe for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1949845 set by Daniel
[05:03] <KBar> hi! hmm, trying to reproduce it right now. will check the duplicate as well. thank you for the heads up!
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> thank you KBar
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> nice to have a -desktop companion to debug, if you got ID's to test, lemme know too
[05:32] <KBar> will do!
[06:33] <KBar> lotuspsychje, looks like there's two glitches here: 1) selecting the Appearance tab for the first time cause the whole shell to disappear; 2) toggling "Auto-hide the Dock" cause the launcher icon to flash and glitch.
[06:57] <KBar> Added a comment and an attachment to it.
[06:58] <lotuspsychje> KBar: i cant reproduce the appearance tab glitch, unless you mean the first time after a fresh login?
[07:01] <lotuspsychje> wich graphics are you on KBar
[07:04] <KBar> lotuspsychje yes. Only reproducible on a fresh install and opening the Appearance tab for the very first time.
[07:05] <lotuspsychje> i see
[07:06] <KBar> Intel® HD Graphics 4400
[07:07] <KBar> VirtualBox VM
[07:08] <lotuspsychje> intel 620 HD here
[07:12] <KBar> It doesn't look like a duplicate to me.
[07:14] <KBar> I think it's a gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock issue.
[07:46] <lotuspsychje> KBar: yeah whatever it is, we proved it reproduceable : )
[11:23] <lotuspsychje> KBar: join #ubuntu-next too if you like, more jammy debugging there aswell
[11:26] <KBar> thanks for reminding me about it! forgot to add it to my autojoin list ;-)
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> +1


[15:03]  * barry waves
[15:03]  * sithlord48 waves
[15:03] <bhuey_> yo
[15:04] <robru> meeting?
[15:04] <sil2100> o/
[15:05] <xnox> looks like slangasek nor cjwatson are around =)
[15:05] <jodh> o/
[15:05] <xnox> we could all just skive off..... =)
[15:05] <jodh> cjwatson is out this afternoon.
[15:05] <robru> damnit, I prepped my list for once!
[15:05] <jodh> partaay y'all!
[15:06] <bhuey> slangasek: was up really late last night
[15:07] <bhuey> I'm starting anyways
[15:07] <xnox> #startmeeting
[15:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 31 15:07:43 2014 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:07] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:07] <bhuey> don't know what the procedure is...
[15:07] <xnox> #topic Lightning round
[15:07] <bhuey> go ?
[15:08] <bhuey> Last week
[15:08] <bhuey> -change direction and abandoned the security update to 7u55-2.4.7
[15:08] <bhuey> -merged debian package 7u65-2.5.1 to ubuntu utopic, merged differences into this package
[15:08] <bhuey> -backported it to 12.04, 14.04 and utopic, this went well except for 12.04
[15:08] <bhuey> This week
[15:08] <bhuey> -posted test differences between various openjdk versions for regression analysis
[15:08] <bhuey> -struggling to deal with 'quotes' in a call to 'configure' in the build/ directory and wondering why the build system is reverting Matthias's patches
[15:08] <bhuey> -continued to debug the above
[15:08] <bhuey> -get familiar with debian version 3 packaging
[15:08] <bhuey> done
[15:08] <bhuey> ...
[15:08] <xnox> $ shuf -e jodh robru sil2100 xnox barry bmurray doko stgraber
[15:08] <xnox> xnox
[15:08] <xnox> barry
[15:08] <xnox> jodh
[15:08] <xnox> robru
[15:08] <xnox> sil2100
[15:08] <xnox> bmurray
[15:08] <xnox> doko
[15:08] <xnox> stgraber
[15:08] <xnox> not as fancy.
[15:08] <xnox> ..
[15:09] <bhuey> whoops
[15:09] <xnox> * usb-creator - formating fixes uploaded
[15:09] <xnox> * mega-transition helping out tie up loose ends
[15:09] <xnox> * llvm 3.5 - fixed powerpc build (committed upstream) and fixed
[15:09] <xnox>   ppc64el packaging (accepted in debian). Will switch default to 3.5
[15:09] <xnox>   after alpha2 freeze block is lifted. That will make temporary add
[15:09] <xnox>   3.5 & 3.4 in main, until next mesa update.
[15:09]  * jodh wonders who 'not as fancy' is :)
[15:09] <xnox> * uploaded ubuntukylin-meta seating in NEW, but proper further seed
[15:09] <xnox>   setup is still needed.
[15:09] <xnox> * exit interview, and HRy things.
[15:09] <xnox> * working on porting more lazr.* things to python3
[15:09] <xnox> * sent rebased apt-ftpmaster generate contents only patch to mvo on
[15:09] <xnox>   BTS. (To enable for it to be used, will need further patch to cronscripts)
[15:09] <xnox> TODO:
[15:09] <xnox> * complete more systemd/startpar tasks
[15:09] <xnox> * complete lazr.*/launchpadlib ports
[15:09] <xnox> ..
[15:09] <xnox> barry: =)
[15:09] <xnox> jodh: oh just a comment. as in it's not a one liner as it usually pasted around here.
[15:09] <jodh> xnox: yeah, I'm just being silly.
[15:09] <barry> phone: system-image 2.3.1.  smoke test crash investigation (LP: #1349478).  discussing jani's branches.  other stuff.
[15:09] <barry> debuntu: zope stack (all squared away now!).  gunicorn py3 package support (debian bug #756057).  testing pyvenv/virtualenv from trusty PPA.
[15:09] <xnox> jodh: and it didn't suffly much, did it?!
[15:10] <barry> other: dealing w/various hardware issues.  other discussions on various other topics.
[15:10] <barry> ..
[15:10] <jodh> * upstart
[15:10] <barry> jodh: =)
[15:10] <jodh> *** upstart 1.13.1-0ubuntu2 upload to fix cgmanager tests.
[15:10] <jodh> * system-image
[15:10] <jodh>   * Spent most of the week learning about how system image builds
[15:10] <jodh>     (ongoing :)
[15:10] <jodh>   * Working with mvo, cjwatson and stgraber on setting up new images.
[15:10] <jodh> Γ
[15:11] <xnox> barry: gunicorn python3 \o/
[15:11] <xnox> the all prepared robru is next =)
[15:11] <barry> xnox: yep, have github pull req pending for debian maintainer.  should hopefully land soonish
[15:11] <robru> * landings, landings, landings, landings!
[15:11] <robru> * fixed up qtcompositor landing in ubuntu-system-settings
[15:11] <robru> * learned all about Jasmine unittesting framework for JS -- very nice!
[15:11] <robru> * wrote vast amounts of unit test code for both CI Train Silo Dashboard and NFSS Web UI
[15:11] <robru> * attended GUADEC -- saw many talks and took lots of notes
[15:11] <robru> * Several CI Vanguard shifts
[15:11] <robru> * stopped some bits of CI Train from hard-coding spreadsheet column indexes, allowing greater
[15:11] <robru> flexibility to change the spreadsheet in the future (in preparation for RTM)
[15:11] <robru> * vast simplification of CI Train spreadsheet, dropping all stupid "silo tabs" and streamlinin
[15:11] <robru> g the testing:done? setting into the pending tab, which will make the spreadsheet much easier
[15:11] <robru> to navigate when RTM doubles the number of silos we have.
[15:11] <robru> * various minor pre-RTM preparatory fixes & changes in CI Train
[15:11] <robru> * 99 commits against the CI Train silo dashboard page. yikes! (many many many small tweaks and
[15:11] <robru>  iterations, and increases in test coverage).
[15:12] <xnox> awesome!
[15:12] <xnox> robru: sil2100: has ci-train been tested / dry-run against rtm on dogfood?
[15:12] <sil2100> xnox: doing it all the time ;)
[15:12] <xnox> sil2100: awesome.
[15:13] <xnox> sil2100: you are next! =)
[15:13]  * slangasek waves belatedly
[15:13] <sil2100> xnox: just got blocked by some firewall blockings, but now I'm unblocked again, webops helped out
[15:13] <robru> xnox, sil2100 has taken charge of the ci train core. I'm mostly working on the periphery, like the dashboard and queuebot.
[15:13] <xnox> #chair slangasek
[15:13] <meetingology> Current chairs: slangasek xnox
[15:13] <sil2100> o/
[15:13] <sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff
[15:13] <sil2100> - Pushing on promotion and TRAINCON-0 issues
[15:13] <sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
[15:13] <sil2100>   * Decoupling prod from preprod, now for testing preprod custom branches can be used
[15:13] <sil2100>   * Small enablements related to the modified spreadsheet
[15:13] <sil2100>   * Continuing work on enabling other distributions (ubuntu-rtm)
[15:13] <sil2100>     - More firewall holes needed in our prodstack instance
[15:13] <sil2100>     - More complex silo configuration handling
[15:13] <sil2100>     - Many many corner cases where ubuntu was still considered instead of selected distro
[15:13] <sil2100>   * Test landing of indicator-location to ubuntu-rtm (in progress)
[15:13] <sil2100>   * Prepared branch with 'retry failed jobs'
[15:13] <sil2100>   * Add additional twin upload projects
[15:13] <sil2100>   * No time to finish work on auto-merge-clean
[15:13] <sil2100> - Work on defining TRAINCON-0 formal rules
[15:14] <sil2100> - Packaging advice for some upstream developers
[15:14] <sil2100> - Documenting the TRAINCON-0 incident
[15:14] <sil2100> - Playing around with some hardware
[15:14] <sil2100> done
[15:14] <bdmurray> this covers about 2 weeks for me since I was on holiday last thursday
[15:14] <bdmurray> updated errors for assets.ubuntu.com to r486
[15:14] <bdmurray> testing of errors frontend change to filter on pkg_arch
[15:14] <bdmurray> submitted RT to have errors frontends updated and errors_static_url modified
[15:14] <bdmurray> setup logrotation for the daisy, errors frontends and pushed to the daisy and errors charms
[15:14] <bdmurray> updated daisy retracer to keep core dumps when retracing and save crash files in certain situations
[15:14] <bdmurray> submitted rt to have retracers updated to r504
[15:14] <bdmurray> updated RT 72977 regarding errors log rotation
[15:14] <bdmurray> submitted RT 73492 regarding updating the daisy frontends to r498
[15:14] <bdmurray> updated daisy bucket code to pass architecture to bucketversionscount
[15:15] <bdmurray> push bzr changes for daisy to increment arch counters
[15:15] <bdmurray> created some armhf retrace success failures graphs in graphite
[15:15] <bdmurray> submitted RT to add more retracers for errors
[15:15] <bdmurray> pinged a webop to run import-user-packages cron job (they said it worked but still nothing in the ColumnFamily)
[15:15] <bdmurray> manually ran import_user_packages to the temp DSE ring database
[15:15] <bdmurray> research into recoverable problem bucket grouping upstart and url-dispatcher issues
[15:15] <bdmurray> discovered and reported apport bug 1349579
[15:15] <bdmurray> submitted merge proposal fixing apport bug 1329520
[15:15] <bdmurray> investigation into SystemImageInfo not appearing in apport .crash files on the phone
[15:15] <bdmurray> uploaded new version of apport to utopic which will properly gather SystemImageInfo
[15:15] <bdmurray> uploaded new version of whoopsie to upotic that will send SystemImageInfo to errors
[15:15] <bdmurray> tested whoopsie bug 1320988 regarding online / offline connectivity
[15:15] <bdmurray> investigation into whoopsie bug 1340604
[15:15] <bdmurray> reported apport bug 1347009 regarding retraced crashes missing stacktrace
[15:15] <bdmurray> research into duplicates for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1347721
[15:15] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:15] <doko> - GCC default set to 4.9
[15:15] <doko> - update of cross toolchains
[15:15] <doko> - openjdk-7 mentoring and fixes
[15:15] <doko> - clean up component mismatches, dep-waits, ftbfs in main, three days of nagging and fixing
[15:15] <doko> - packaging review of some third party software
[15:15] <doko> - updated tightvnc, updated tigervnc (at least it built for arm64 and ppc64el)
[15:16] <doko> - twisted transition (ubuntu-sso-client still unfixed)
[15:16] <doko> - arm64 toolchain discussion
[15:16] <doko> (done)
[15:17] <stgraber> Was on vacation last week.
[15:17] <stgraber> E-mail and IRC catchup on Monday mostly.
[15:17] <stgraber> Helped with some code reviews, discussions, ... wrt ubuntu core system-image.
[15:17] <stgraber> Got an initial system-image published for ubuntu-core.
[15:17] <stgraber> Discussed partitioning plan for new touch devices.
[15:17] <stgraber> Fixed some LXC CI issues.
[15:17] <stgraber> Recorded a video on running GUI apps inside LXC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYsj9LEqxXk
[15:17] <stgraber> Poked some more at running Unity8 inside LXC.
[15:17] <stgraber> Some more LXC-related discussions (conference planning, ...)
[15:17] <stgraber> Discussed some of our NetworkManager patches.
[15:17] <stgraber> Fixed a couple of configuration issues with the ISO tracker related to alpha-2, 14.04.1 and 12.04.5.
[15:17] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:18] <xnox> slangasek: your turn =) and take over chairing =)
[15:18] <slangasek> hmm :)
[15:20] <slangasek>  * working with bhuey on prepping openjdk security update
[15:20] <slangasek>  * discussions around the 'init' package and systemd-sysv to unblock new images using systemd from the start
[15:20] <slangasek>  * tracking crash retracing success on the phones; working with bdmurray et al. to get any blocking issues fixed in advance of RTM
[15:20] <slangasek>  * performance reviews
[15:20] <slangasek>  * helped move forward some HWE SRUs related to a server engagement
[15:20] <slangasek>  * helped with getting out of TRAINCON-0 on Monday
[15:20] <slangasek>  * next week: joining a cloud team sprint (as is Colin), so expect limited availability
[15:20] <slangasek>  * the week after: on vacation
[15:21] <slangasek> bdmurray: on the errors.u.c side, when do you expect we'll have the per-image view available?
[15:22] <bdmurray> slangasek: what was the final answer for the counter?
[15:22] <slangasek> bdmurray: ah, in scrollback, let's iron that out after the meeting?
[15:23] <bdmurray> slangasek: okay, it shouldn't take too long to add
[15:23] <slangasek> any other questions over status?
[15:24] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Upstart cgroup support
[15:24] <slangasek> forgot to do an in-depth topic for last week's meeting... remembered this week :)
[15:25] <jodh> Thanks Steve. Everyone sitting comfortably?
[15:25] <slangasek> so jodh will talk a bit about the work he did to implement cgroup support into upstart
[15:25] <jodh> Today, I'm going to give a brief [1] talk about cgroup support in upstart
[15:25] <jodh> and some of the challenges we faced. This may go some way in explaining
[15:25] <jodh> the seemingly never-ending upstart async branch updates I've given in
[15:25] <jodh> the past in this meeting :-)
[15:25] <jodh> = Intro =
[15:25] <jodh> As of version 1.13, Upstart supports cgroups. By "support", I mean "has
[15:25] <jodh> the ability to place job processes into one or more cgroups" (for
[15:25] <jodh> service resource control). It does _not_ mean that Upstart uses cgroups
[15:25] <jodh> to mop up the mess if a service ends badly (process supervision).
[15:25] <jodh> = The cgroup Stanza =
[15:25] <jodh> After thrashing out the design with stgraber, slangasek and hallyn
[15:25] <jodh> (http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Cgroup), we added support to parse a new
[15:25] <jodh> "cgroup" stanza that a job can specify. The final syntax is extremely
[15:25] <jodh> clean and praise goes to stgraber for realising how simple we could make
[15:25] <jodh> it!) Here's a summary of the behaviour:
[15:25] <jodh> - If not specified, the job processes are not placed into (any new)
[15:25] <jodh>   cgroups.
[15:26] <jodh> - If a job specifies a cgroup stanza, that job cannot legitimately start
[15:26] <jodh>   until the cgroup manager itself is running. To handle this, we added a new
[15:26] <jodh>   initctl command ("notify-cgroup-manager-address") which the
[15:26] <jodh>   cgmanager.conf job itself calls in post-start to notify upstart where
[15:26] <jodh>   to find cgmanager :-)
[15:26] <jodh> - If specified, *all* job processes are put into the specified cgroup(s).
[15:26] <jodh> - If specified as "cgroup <controller>" ("cgroup cpuset" for example),
[15:26] <jodh>   Upstart will add the job to a job-specific cgroup whose value will be
[15:26] <jodh>   "$UPSTART_JOB-$UPSTART_INSTANCE".
[15:26] <jodh> - If specified as "cgroup cpuset foo 12", Upstart will place the job
[15:26] <jodh>   processes into the implicit job-specific cpuset cgroup and set
[15:26] <jodh>   "foo=bar" in that group.
[15:26] <jodh> - If specified as "cgroup cpuset hello foo 12", Upstart will place the
[15:26] <jodh>   job into a the cpuset cgroup called "hello" and set "foo=12" in that
[15:26] <jodh>   group. If "hello" does not exist, it will be created. This allows
[15:26] <jodh>   multiple different jobs to enter the same cgroup if desired.
[15:26] <jodh> - The cgroup name ("hello" in the example above) can also contain variables:
[15:26] <jodh>   "cgroup cpuset db/$foo/$bar-$baz".
[15:26] <jodh> - You can also get at the cgroup that Upstart would create on behalf of
[15:26] <jodh>   the job using the magic $UPSTART_CGROUP variable (note that this is
[15:26] <jodh>   _not_ an environment variable and is only valid within a cgroup
[15:26] <jodh>   stanza). For example: "cgroup cpuset db/$UPSTART_CGROUP".
[15:26] <jodh> So far so good.
[15:26] <jodh> Since there is already an excellent cgroup manager available, and since
[15:26] <jodh> we try to avoid adding extra complexity to PID 1, we opted to avoid
[15:26]  * slangasek waits for the footnote to resolve
[15:26] <jodh> re-inventing the wheel by having cgmanager(8) handle the actual cgroup
[15:26] <jodh> operations. So, when Upstart starts a job that specified a cgroup
[15:26] <jodh> stanza, it needs to do the following:
[15:26] <jodh> - Connect to cgmanager.
[15:26] <jodh> - Ask cgmanager to create the cgroup(s).
[15:27] <jodh> - Ask cgmanager to move the specified process(es) into a cgroup.
[15:27] <jodh> - Ask cgmanager to set apply a particular setting to a cgroup.
[15:27] <jodh> However, there's a problem with the above. What if cgmanager hung?
[15:27] <jodh> We'll come back to this, but first I need to explain how Upstart spawns
[15:27] <jodh> a job.
[15:27] <jodh> = Async spawning =
[15:27] <jodh> == Historical synchronous spawning ==
[15:27] <jodh> Upstart used to do the following when wishing to start a new job process:
[15:27] <jodh> 1) Create a pipe.
[15:27] <jodh> 2) fork itself.
[15:27] <jodh> 3) Have the child do all necessary setup such as dropping privileges,
[15:27] <jodh>    closing fds, switching apparmor profiles, etc. Then:
[15:27] <jodh>    - If the child finished its setup successfully it simply exec'd the
[15:27] <jodh>    relevant program specified in the job .conf file for the job process
[15:27] <jodh>    in question).
[15:27] <jodh>    - But if the setup failed, the child wrote a status message back up to
[15:27] <jodh>      the parent (PID 1) explaining what went wrong, and then exited.
[15:27] <jodh> 4) All the time the child wass doing setup, PID 1 was doing a _blocking
[15:27] <jodh>    read_ on its end of the pipe. This implies that no operation in the
[15:27] <jodh>    child setup phase could block, since if it could block, it would also
[15:27] <jodh>    block PID 1, and thus DoS the system.
[15:27] <jodh> As a result, we couldn't call cgmanager from PID 1 directly, since that
[15:27] <jodh> could lead to a DoS, but we couldn't call it from the child _either_.
[15:27] <jodh> == Brave New World ==
[15:27] <jodh> The solution was to change the way in which Upstart spawns. In the new
[15:27] <jodh> world, Upstart still creates the pipe but doesn't do a blocking read; it
[15:27] <jodh> just adds the fd for the read end of the pipe to a queue and waits for
[15:27] <jodh> some notification from the child. So we now have asynchronous child
[15:27] <jodh> spawning. To achieve this, we had to increase the number of states the
[15:27] <jodh> job can be, since there is now a distinction between:
[15:28] <jodh> - "the job process has been spawned successfully"
[15:28] <jodh> - "the job process is _being_ spawned" (but we don't know what the outcome is yet).
[15:28] <jodh> Here is the old state transition diagram:
[15:28] <jodh> http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/upstart-states-old.png
[15:28] <jodh> And here's the new one:
[15:28] <jodh> http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/upstart-states-new.png
[15:28] <jodh> However, that only solved half the problem - since Upstart was now
[15:28] <jodh> spawning asynchronously, the design meant that the order in which child
[15:28] <jodh> notifications could arrive became non-deterministic since either of the
[15:28] <jodh> following could happen "first":
[15:28] <jodh> - child exits and Upstart is notified via waitid().
[15:28] <jodh> - child pipe closes or has data written to it and is notified by select().
[15:28] <jodh> This needed careful handling since *both* those operations could update
[15:28] <jodh> the job state, but we didn't want the state to be "double-bumped".
[15:28] <jodh> In summary, adding the new async spawning feature was quite a challenge
[15:28] <jodh> with xnox and I gaining a few grey hairs in the process (his don't show!
[15:28] <jodh> Errm... ;-)
[15:28] <jodh> = Test Suite =
[15:28] <jodh> Since the new states and the new async nature of spawning meant that a
[15:28] <jodh> large chunk of the (large!) set of Upstart tests suddently broke. Hence,
[15:28] <jodh> it took lots of careful reviewing of both the code and all the required
[15:28] <jodh> test changes to resolve this new feature.
[15:28] <jodh> = Stateful re-exec =
[15:28] <jodh> This needed updating to handle the new cgroup stanza data. But we also
[15:28] <jodh> needed to consider scenarios like this:
[15:28] <jodh> - PID 1 starts a job process asynchronously.
[15:28] <jodh> - child takes "a long time" to setup.
[15:28] <jodh> - PID 1 is restarted.
[15:28] <jodh> Post-re-exec, PID 1 needs to know to keep track of the outstanding child
[15:28] <jodh> setup operations it is (asynchronously) waiting on. To handle this, we
[15:29] <jodh> added a new JobProcessData object to store the transitory child setup
[15:29] <jodh> meta-data (which gets discarded once the child has either died or
[15:29] <jodh> responded down the pipe).
[15:29] <jodh> = Cgroup Operations =
[15:29] <jodh> With the advent of async spawning, the child now makes all necessary
[15:29] <jodh> calls on the cgmanager with PID 1 being completely immune to any issues
[15:29] <jodh> that that may entail. In fact, aside from storing the parsed cgroup
[15:29] <jodh> stanza data, all PID 1 does is store the address of cgmanager!
[15:29] <jodh> = Conclusion =
[15:29] <jodh> The final result is an extremely clean and safe design. By introducing
[15:29] <jodh> async spawning we were also able to make Upstart fully immune to the
[15:29] <jodh> child blocking PID 1 (there used to be a couple of areas that
[15:29] <jodh> theoretically could cause issues on a mis-configured system).
[15:29] <jodh> ---
[15:29] <jodh> [1] - FTR, I'm using ev's definition of 'brief' :-)
[15:29]  * jodh grumbles over whitespace damage....
[15:29] <jodh> A non-garbled version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7915372/
[15:29] <slangasek> heh
[15:30] <slangasek> jodh: so, http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/upstart-states-new.png is the state diagram for what's implemented now in 1.13?
[15:31] <jodh> slangasek: yep - I need to refresh the cookbook with that.
[15:32] <xnox> (also pretified the graph in graphviz for vertical top/down layout)
[15:32] <xnox> vs previously "optimal" graph
[15:32] <jodh> xnox: yeah, that's much improved, thanks! :)
[15:32] <slangasek> still just the single error path, though; couldn't you have made it more complicated? ;)
[15:33] <barry> jodh: very interesting!  is there a timeout after which the child is just considered hung, and does upstart do anything about that state?
[15:33] <jodh> barry: no - no timeout.
[15:34] <xnox> barry: it just gets stuck in e.g. "starting/pre-starting" state.
[15:34] <jodh> barry: if the child hangs, the state will reflect that if you run 'initctl status $job'.
[15:34] <xnox> (or some such, can't remember exact names of the spawning state"
[15:34] <xnox> )
[15:34] <barry> gotcha
[15:35]  * slangasek nods
[15:35] <slangasek> if the job never gets around to starting, it's not init's job to fix it ;)
[15:36] <slangasek> jodh: do we have people using the cgroup support in anger yet?
[15:36] <jodh> barry: If a job does hang though, you may get something useful in cgmanagers log (assuming you've set cgmanager_opts= in /etc/init/cgmanager.conf).
[15:37] <jodh> slangasek: I don't think so actually. I checked on a recent touch image and I can't see any evidence of it being used yet. We need to poke ted! :)
[15:37] <slangasek> jodh: has ted been poked about this yet?
[15:37] <slangasek> if not, then yes, yes you do ;)
[15:38] <jodh> slangasek: not by me directly. I added him to https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/utopic/cgmanager/enable-upstart-cgroup-support/+merge/227209 so he should be aware of it.
[15:38] <xnox> slangasek: i'll poke ted about it.
[15:39] <slangasek> xnox: ok, thanks
[15:39] <jodh> let's all poke ted. err...
[15:40] <slangasek> any other questions about cgroups in upstart?
[15:41] <slangasek> jodh: thanks for presenting!
[15:41] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:42] <bdmurray> slangasek: I was thinking maybe you and stgraber could discuss bug 1314616?
[15:42] <slangasek> oh no
[15:42] <stgraber> oh, that again?
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: I had explicitly told them to submit an SRU to disable the daemon on upgrade
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: and you are apparently not happy with the proposed solution
[15:43] <stgraber> slangasek: I'm not?
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: so yes, we should talk, but probably not during the meeting :-)
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: that's what I heard!
[15:44] <bdmurray> there was an email to ubuntu-devel about it earlier this month
[15:44] <slangasek> anyway, maybe we talk on #ubuntu-devel after the meeting?
[15:44] <stgraber> slangasek: I think I was just unhappy that the reporter tried to get us to do things without going through the proper SRU process
[15:44] <slangasek> ah :-)
[15:44] <stgraber> slangasek: I don't care about the package itself and am perfectly happy to have it die one way or another :)
[15:45] <slangasek> ok then!
[15:45] <slangasek> anything else to discuss on this fine summer day?
[15:45] <stgraber> I mostly complained to the reporter when he started nagging me as the current patch pilot to do something which needed discussion with the SRU team. Now that the SRU team has clearly been informed of it, someone should just sponsor a debdiff and be done with it.
[15:46]  * slangasek nods
[15:47] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:47] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 31 15:47:40 2014 UTC.
[15:47] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-31-15.07.moin.txt
[15:47] <slangasek> thanks, everyone!
[15:47] <barry> thanks!
[16:58] <genii> I wonder how many people have "repaired" their own brakes instead of getting a mechanic, then ended up careening off a cliff
[16:58] <genii> Wrong channel, sorry :)


[13:20] <jenda> boredandblogging: sure, if there is someone around to do it.
[22:05] <DPic> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_IdeaStorm_Put_GNU_Linux_in_Retail_Stores
[23:38]  * emmajane pokes jono
[23:38] <jono> hey emmajane :)
[23:39] <emmajane> What city are you in now?
[23:40] <jono> emmajane: San Francisco Airport
[23:40] <emmajane> jono: that's sort of like a city, I'm sure. :)


[12:35] <tritium> crimsun, may I /msg you regarding my package review?
[12:55] <crimsun> tritium: sure
[12:56] <tritium> thanks
[01:46] <lamont-away> dholbach: note that we should not be adding epochs, since they're forever
[01:51] <koke> lamont: dholbach left the channel about an hour ago
[01:51] <koke> maybe two
[01:51] <lamont> yeah
[02:31] <whiskers> anywhere there is lots of basics here on ubuntu already....no real need for all that specialized gentoo stuff
[02:32] <whiskers> i even have blender working on this hoary
[02:32] <whiskers> but i don't know how to use it
[03:37] <yojimbo-san> I'm packaging OpenVPN (v2, from source, there is no up-to-date Debian package) for internal usage here, and it strikes me that I should contribute this back to Universe somehow. I can't find any documentation on the wiki about what's supposed to be in a package, however - things like providing an /etc/defaults/ file (how to avoid clobbering this on an upgrade?), when to call update-rc.d (postinst?) and so on. Any pointers?
[03:50] <schweeb> yojimbo-san: have you read the Debian New Maintainer's Guide and the Debian Policy Manual?
[03:54] <yojimbo-san> well, I've read enough to be able to technically make  packages, but I'm not sure about the policy sorts of questions ...
[03:55] <yojimbo-san> but I suppose a more in-depth read wouldn't go amiss :-)
[03:56] <schweeb> the policy manual is pretty in depth
[03:57] <schweeb> best experience is just looking at other packages though...
[03:57] <yojimbo-san> schweeb: will that cover things about how to upgrade gracefully and so on?
[03:58] <schweeb> well, in a simple package, graceful upgrades are zero work at all
[03:59] <schweeb> in something like mysql or postgresql or something, you'd want to make scripts to be sure the existing database works fine
[04:00] <schweeb> all of which is done via debconf scripts, or pre/post rm/inst scripts
[04:03] <yojimbo-san> schweeb: thanks. In OpenVPN's example, I have to stop/start the existing server, which should be easy enough. Currently I'm shupping an /etc/defaults/openvpn file, which says "ENABLED=0" - the server needs to be manually configured initially. But I realise that I'll be clobbering this file if I upgrade, so perhaps that isn't the right thing to do. I'll do some more research :-)
[04:06] <schweeb> yojimbo-san: it should end up marked as a config file, and it will ask if you want to replace with the maintainer version
[04:06] <schweeb> IME
[04:07] <yojimbo-san> mmm, OK, I'll have to find out how to identify config files within a package then. Possibly something in the control file, but I'm sure a proper RTFM will help :-)
[04:11] <ajmitch_> hmm, I wonder what's so wrong with the package in sid?
[04:12] <ajmitch_> it's only 5 days old (openvpn)
[04:12] <ajmitch_> it is 1.99, which I'd assume to be a 2.0 prerelease
[04:13] <schweeb> *shrug*
[04:15] <ajmitch_> if he comes back, point that out - sid has rc18, rc20 was only released today ;)
[05:20] <lamont><EMAIL_ADDRESS>around?
[05:30] <StR> hi  there.....   i'm a new ubuntu user...
[05:31] <StR> i come from slackware
[05:31] <StR> and I want to know if there is somehting like linuxpackages.net for ubuntu
[05:32] <StR> i mean, a site where anyone can post their new packages that where not found in the rep
[05:40] <schweeb> StR: apt-get.org
[08:12] <dholbach> good morning!
[08:19] <tritium> Good morning, dholbach :)
[08:20] <dholbach> hey tritium :-)
[08:25] <dholbach> StoneTable: i was just looking at libapache2-mod-ldap-userdir
[08:26] <dholbach> StoneTable: did you just take the debian version and compiled it for ubuntu?
[08:33] <dholbach> can somebody with an i386 do me a favor and compile  prj2make-sharp  from  http://thorin.battleaxe.net/~stone/hoary/  in a pbuilder?
[08:34] <tritium> ok
[08:34] <dholbach> thanks tritium
[08:34] <dholbach> <--- off into the shower
[08:34] <tritium> sure
[08:57] <dholbach> tritium: could you tell me if it builds and installs - that's all i need to know
[08:57] <tritium> dholbach, okay, still working on it
[08:57] <tritium> will let you know
[08:58] <dholbach> :-)
[09:18] <dholbach> could you all please that have still packages listed on UniversePythonTransitionTODO in state "Being transitioned" scan your /home/-directories for packages that are ready?
[09:28] <dholbach> morning doko
[09:30] <dholbach> brb
[09:54] <dholbach> hey azeem
[10:05] <dholbach> see you guys later
[11:07] <jani> ogra ping
[11:09] <jani> hey dholbach
[11:10] <dholbach> hey jani :-)
[11:12] <jani> I just uploaded my last python transage yesterday, only to see today that doko did the same about the same time :)
[11:12] <jani> pymol
[11:12] <dholbach> :-)
[11:12] <azeem> jani: oh, good
[11:13] <azeem> I came here to ask for that
[11:13] <dholbach> i'll go through the lists today and have a look which ones are just lying around... finished
[11:13] <jani> azeem, coincidence :)
[11:13] <azeem> got another mail from a Ubuntu user yesterday asking me for a transition
[11:13] <jani> azeem I sent you a debdiff a couple of weeks ago, must have fallen through the cracks
[11:14] <doko> jani: sorry, yes, should have told you about ...
[11:15] <azeem> jani: what's your email address?
[11:15] <jani> doko, np :)
[11:15] <jani> jani at email ro
[11:15] <jani> but it is banned by hoaryt-changes spam filter
[11:16] <azeem> I vaguely remember something, but I can't find a mail from you
[11:16] <azeem> anyway
[11:16] <azeem> doko: can I safely put python-dev in my Build-Depends and ${python:Depends} in Depends? Would that just work on Debian and Ubuntu?
[11:19] <doko> azeem: yes and no. usually Debian requires a versioned dependency on python-dev (>= 2.4), if you want to assure that it builds with 2.4. yes, it's nice to have something completely independent from the default python version.
[11:21] <azeem> doko: I meant source compatibility. So a simple recompile would work on Debian and Ubuntu and yield packages for the respective default python version.  Right now, I Build-Depend on python2.3-dev.
[11:24] <doko> yes, that should work.
[11:25] <azeem> thanks
[12:30] <tseng> ogra: oh, i dont think ive mentioned this. since im working full time with no ssh access to outside, i wont be making any meetings.
[12:35] <dholbach> tseng: don't you think we'll be able to make appointments you'll be able to attend?
[12:35] <Gervystar> hi tseng. Any news about the mono packaging? Just in case you'll need some testing, give me a call.
[12:35] <tseng> dholbach: well, im here a few hours in the evening, but we go to dinner whenever
[12:36] <tseng> and alot of other people are asleep when i get home
[12:36] <tseng> Gervystar: meebey (debian mono) is working out the upgrade issues
[12:36] <Gervystar> tseng: fine
[12:37] <dholbach> i hope we'll be able to make a time you can make to
[12:37] <dholbach> i wouldn't mind getting up early
[12:37] <tseng> ok we can talk about that later
[12:37] <tseng> then.
[12:37] <tseng> i hope meebey gets to reviewing my mad dholbach style dash of updating all the related mono packages
[12:39] <dholbach> were you talking about a specific meeting?
[12:39] <tseng> in general, the daytime meetings I cant do
[12:39] <dholbach> erm... what do you mean? shall i help out with uploading a bunch of packages?
[12:40] <tseng> no, meebey is debian mono
[12:40] <tseng> he is finishing the core package
[12:40] <tseng> everything else needs updated also, i sent him a slew of stuff
[12:41] <dholbach> what did you mean by "i hope meebey gets to reviewing my mad dholbach style dash of updating all the related mono packages"?
[12:41] <tseng> i did it like you
[12:41] <tseng> a dozen packages is one sitting
[12:41] <dholbach> ah ok :-)
[12:42] <dholbach> <--- a bit confused by mvo's music ;-)
[12:42] <tseng> hah
[12:43] <tseng> bye dholbach
[12:43] <dholbach> bye tseng
[01:25] <dredg> right
[01:25] <dredg> i dunno if anyone else got a copy of ubuntu priority list
[01:26] <dredg> but diamond got a copy from henrik
[01:26] <dredg> available from: http://diamond.nonado.net/misc/UniversePriorityList.moin.txt
[01:26] <dholbach> you want to merge them?
[01:26] <dholbach> or shall i do it?
[01:26] <dredg> i'm very busy i'm afrain dholbach
[01:26] <dholbach> ok
[01:27] <dredg> er, substitute correct spelling where appropriate
[01:47] <StoneTable> dholbach:  yes, libapache-mod-ldap-userdir was brought over from debian
[01:47] <dholbach> StoneTable: and just built on a hoary box?
[01:48] <StoneTable> yep
[01:48] <dholbach> StoneTable: we can just sync it :-)
[01:48] <dholbach> ask elmo :-)
[01:48] <StoneTable> okay, sweet
[01:49] <dholbach> add it to MOTUToSync, so we won't forget when he's not here
[01:50] <dholbach> i'll be out... having lunch with mvo - see you later
[01:50] <StoneTable> cya
[01:53] <spacey> is malone actively used?
[01:54] <spacey> i don't see much activity, expect new bugs (open) few a day
[02:43] <koke> hi motus!
[02:43] <koke> what do you think about http://koke.amedias.org/2005/03/24/tintin-is-not-hig-compliant/ ??
[02:44] <dredg> koke: actually i read that the other day
[02:44] <dredg> i agree
[02:44] <dredg> plus there are copyright issues with tintin, no?
[02:47] <koke> dredg: I guess so
[02:48] <koke> I'm remembering... tseng told me jimmac had done some icons for that
[02:48] <koke> but they seem to were lost
[02:48] <dredg> ah. pity that
[02:58] <Treenaks> " MERGE ON PAIN OF DEATH " ??? sounds nice ;)
[03:01] <dredg> and in the context of dotdeb stuff, highly accurate :)
[03:02] <Treenaks> urggh
[03:03] <dredg> :)
[03:06] <bddebian> Good morning
[03:06] <koke> the icons aren't in the archive :/
[03:06] <koke> http://web.archive.org/web/20050405060538/http://jimmac.musichall.cz/weblog.php//Artwork/LowresTomboy.php
[03:07] <dredg> tried mailing jimmac?
[03:07] <dredg> --- [jimmac]  idle 00:15:30, signon: Tue Apr  5 13:51:36
[03:07] <dredg> he's around
[03:07] <dredg> :)
[03:17] <koke> dredg: I'll try later
[03:17] <koke> have to go now
[03:17] <koke> I like the topic of #gimp : "Don't ask to ask, just ask" :D
[03:17] <dredg> nice :)
[03:18] <Treenaks> koke: and it doesnt' work, I guess
[03:26] <tritium> Good morning!  :)
[03:28] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[03:28] <tritium> Hi bddebian
[03:31] <crimsun> morning :)
[03:31] <bddebian> Hello crimsun
[03:31] <bddebian> bbiab
[04:14] <jani> hey ogra
[04:14] <ogra> hi jani
[04:14] <jani> hwdb-client question
[04:14] <ogra> yop
[04:14] <jani> If I keep pushing the forward button
[04:14] <jani> without moving the mouse from it
[04:14] <jani> it does not get the click
[04:15] <ogra> it doesnt take zhe click ?
[04:15] <jani> only if I move the mouse from that button then back
[04:15] <ogra> thats a gtk regression...
[04:15] <jani> but pressing return key works
[04:15] <ogra> yup
[04:15] <jani> with the key I can go on
[04:15] <jani> so you know about this?
[04:16] <ogra> it sadly dissaperaed on my system, so i cant reproduce it anymore....but i will sort it in one or the other way before release
[04:16] <ogra> yup
[04:16] <jani> ok then
[04:16] <ogra> its an very old gtk bug
[04:16] <jani> such a fundamental thing though....
[04:17] <jani> so not only pygtk?
[04:17] <ogra> i guess if i dont set the focus on the button te behavior will go away, but the ease of the enter key will be lost too
[04:18] <jani> I dd remove grab_focus lines and blindly played around with sensitivity(true/false) with similar results
[04:18] <ogra> so currently i'm weighting out if keyboard or mouse should be preferred....i'm guessing the majority will use the mouse
[04:18] <jani> og course it was my first look at pygtk code so that doesn't mean a thing :)
[04:19] <ogra> i also had it in c gtk apps, so its more fundamental...
[04:19] <ogra> synaptic once had this bug too (c++)
[04:20] <dholbach> regexxer (c++) too
[04:26] <jani> yes mouse of course...I was doing the oh so common in wondows world
[04:26] <jani> next->next->next wizard stuff
[04:28] <whiskers> tritium, thanks a lot for the octave example
[04:29] <tritium> whiskers, you're welcome ;)
[04:29] <tritium> It's very simple, but it'll get you started, and familiar with the syntax
[04:44] <whiskers> octave is incredible....160megs of binaries to say 2 + 2 =4
[04:44] <tritium> whiskers, it can do a bit more ;)
[04:45] <whiskers> tritium, yes...i am sure it can...i was just making a point
[04:45] <whiskers> it is like oo...hundreds of megs of binaries to write a small memo
[04:46] <whiskers> this stuff is fun
[04:46] <tritium> It's rather powerful, actually.
[04:48] <whiskers> it reminds me of vcr's....they had hundreds of buttons that no one could figure out...and all they wanted to do was play some tapes
[05:02] <whiskers> did you ever try to read a 6000 page vcr manual to figure out how to play a tape
[05:03] <whiskers> these country people in Texas cannot understand any of it...it may as well have been written in a foreign language
[05:03] <bddebian> PUsh in tape.  Push play..  Sheesh :-)
[05:04] <whiskers> bddebian, but the play button is one of several hundred ...you will never find it
[05:04] <tritium> I'm from New Mexico, just across the TX border, whiskers
[05:04] <bddebian> whiskers: Bah, it just looks like a little arrow
[05:04] <bddebian> Stop is a square
[05:04] <bddebian> Pause i ||
[05:04] <bddebian> Rewind <<
[05:04] <bddebian> Fast Forward >>
[05:06] <tritium> whiskers, so are you intending on using octave for your job?
[05:07] <whiskers> tritium, no..i don't have a job...i am insane
[05:08] <tritium> you're silly
[05:08] <whiskers> tritium, well..there are just many things i don't understand
[05:08] <tritium> that doesn't make you insane, though :)
[05:09] <whiskers> but anyway i like it that ubuntu is the simplest of distros
[05:13] <tritium> dholbach, was your time with mvo productive?
[05:20] <dholbach> tritium: i'm still there :-)
[05:21] <whiskers> not to be an extremist by any means....but there is something to be said for "Simplicity"
[05:23] <spacey> simple in terms voor the end user you mean
[05:23] <whiskers> spacey, yes
[05:24] <whiskers> spacey, and not absolutely...as an extreme position...but should be part of the consideration
[05:24] <spacey> yeah
[05:28] <tritium> dholbach, oh :)
[05:32] <lamont> dholbach: or rather all y'all
[05:32] <lamont> pool/universe/s/speech-dispatcher/speech-dispatcher_0.5-2_amd64.deb:./usr/share/info/dir.old.gz
[05:33] <lamont> simplest solution is to rm -f dir.old.gz (and I think dir.gz) in the build target of debian/rules.
[05:33] <lamont> that's the only one in amd64 land, still crunching through the other architectures
[05:33] <dholbach> ok, will do
[05:34] <dholbach> gtk-engine still on my list, since seb128 told me it was gtk2-engines (in main) that needed to be fixed
 does anybody remember what triggered the  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/info/dir.old.gz', which is also in package texinfo problem?
 oh, god, it's dpkg stupidity
 dpkg install-info vs. gnu install-info
 dpkg changed options, and it broke old automake scripts
 easiest solution is to just rm -f the file in debian/rules build - alternately, update all the autocrap
[05:36] <lamont> dholbach: ok.
[05:36] <lamont> i386 universe is dir.old.gz-clean
[05:36] <lamont> (note that arch:all is the last one scanned...)
[05:38] <dholbach> lamont: but he wouldnt fix it for hoary, so i have to fix the universe crach temporarily
[05:38] <dholbach> s/crach/crack
[05:40] <lamont> ah, ok
[05:40] <lamont> dholbach: and then reverse it when seb128 fixes main?
[05:40] <lamont> in breezy, that is
[05:40] <dholbach> yes... main and debian
[05:41] <schweeb> mmm more crack
[05:45] <dholbach> lamont: hrm... i can't see and /usr/share/info/dir*gz to be installed by any of the speech-dispatcher packages (dpkg -c)
[05:45] <lamont> right
[05:46] <lamont> just rm -f it at the end of the build target
[05:46] <lamont> it's a side effect of automake and dpkg interaction
[05:46] <dholbach> oh i see
[05:46] <dholbach> funny
[05:46] <lamont> see bugs.debian.org/214769
[05:46] <dholbach> thanks
[05:49] <lamont> np
[05:54] <lamont> Dir.old.gz.universe:pool/universe/e/eb/eb-doc_3.3.2-4_all.deb:./usr/share/info/dir.old.gz
[06:17] <lamont> dholbach: those two are all
[06:17] <dholbach> lamont: thanks, will take care
[06:41] <Treenaks> hmm @ dmesg: ACPI: Please implement acpi_video_bus_ROM_seq_show
[06:55] <dholbach> packing my stuff - see you later
[06:55] <dholbach> lamont: speech-distaster uploaded
[07:25] <herve> hi
[07:51] <motaboy> hi all!
[07:51] <bddebian> Hello motaboy
[08:29] <herve> someone knows how to use libtool?
[08:32] <herve> hi Daniel!
[08:32] <dholbach> hey herv
[08:54] <herve> newest gcompris doesn't compile either
[08:54] <herve> goodbye it :-)
[08:58] <tritium> dholbach, your fast-user-switch-applet link on MOTUNewPackages needs fixing.  Want me to do it?
[08:58] <dholbach> oh... didn't notice, yeah.. thank you
[08:59] <tritium> sure
[09:25] <dholbach> don't know if you read it over at #ubuntu-devel:
 (hoary/main, that is)
[09:25] <dholbach> * dholbach nods sighing deeply towards mdz
 dholbach: only 132 in hoary/universe
 dholbach: from a visual scan, they seem to be mostly Debian kernel stuff which should be removed
 mdz: yes... i'll take care of that, but i hoped we were in EVEN better shape :-)
 dholbach: I think you're in great shape
 mdz: maybe i'm looking to closely :-)
[09:25] <dholbach> * mdz bows rigidly
 :-)
[09:25] <dholbach> that goes out to all of us
[09:26] <herve> :-D
[09:26] <herve> honestly, I thought the shape of universe was worst
[09:29] <herve> houba !
[09:29] <dholbach> :-)
[09:30] <herve> dholbach, don't pay attention :-)
[09:33] <encolpe> hop hop
[10:00] <herve> I wanted to update the prority list page
[10:01] <herve> then I wonder,
[10:01] <herve> is it still useful?
[10:03] <crimsun> yes
[10:03] <herve> here you go!
[10:03] <herve> I go, I mean :-)
[10:05] <crimsun> :)
[10:07] <dholbach> herve: it's building at my place
[10:07] <herve> dholbach, gcompris?
[10:08] <dholbach> yes
[10:08] <dholbach> oh no... broke off
[10:08] <herve> muhahaha!
[10:08] <herve> sorry :-p
[10:08] <herve> there's a justice!
[10:09] <herve> gaaa
[10:09] <herve> I can't find xfcalendar in the changes list
[10:09] <dholbach> ;-)
[10:09] <herve> but a ubuntu1 one was uploaded a built all fine
[10:09] <herve> what to believe...
[10:10] <thully> hi - has anyone here tried out netapplet from universe - I have a strange problem with it
[10:10] <thully> it crashes on almost every logout
[10:10] <tritium> thully, same thing happened to me.
[10:10] <herve> sorry I don't use it
[10:11] <thully> tritium: what do you suggest?  I need to be able to get on/off wi-fi
[10:12] <thully> I may just leave DHCP on auto and let it timeout on boot if I'm not at a hotspot
[10:12] <tritium> thully, I'm just using the Network Monitor applet these days
[10:12] <thully> that would be the one that appears by default
[10:12] <thully> correct?
[10:12] <tritium> yes
[10:13] <thully> do you use wi-fi?  if so, how do you connect/disconnect (or do you use the lazy auto-DHCP method I mentioned above)
[10:13] <tritium> I have removable wireless card, so I can control when I connect/disconnect ;)
[10:13] <herve> ifup/ifdown :-)
[10:14] <thully> Is there much danger in setting wireless to auto-DHCP?  It will time out on boot if no APs are found, but I could just hibernate each boot...
[10:14] <tritium> I don't know if tools such as laptop-net are any good, but there are a few available.
[10:17] <schweeb> laptop-net is nice
[10:17] <schweeb> quite nice.
[10:18] <schweeb> but it's often overkill for what most people want
[10:18] <tritium> that's good to konw
[10:19] <motaboy> dholbach: Hi! sorry If I'm disturbing you but can you readd you comment on abakus on MOTUNewPackages wiki page? (now the man page is there) :D thanks.
[10:19] <dholbach> is it gone?
[10:20] <motaboy> dholbach: yes, with the wiki reset.
[10:20] <dholbach> *grmbl*
[10:21] <dholbach> motaboy: wrote a new one
[10:21] <motaboy> dholbach: thanks!
[10:22] <dholbach> de rien
[10:23] <herve> lamont, ping
[10:23] <lamont> herve: yo
[10:23] <herve> hi
[10:23] <herve> is this error supposed to happen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libx/libxerces2-java/2.6.2-1/libxerces2-java_2.6.2-1_20040818-0802-amd64-failed
[10:24] <lamont> yep
[10:24] <lamont> well, except on i386 machines ;-)
[10:24] <lamont> mind you, I wish it didn't, but I understand why it does.
[10:25] <lamont> and it's apparently rather complicated and sorta pointless to fix it
[10:25] <herve> nothing to fix in the package itself?
[10:25] <lamont> none whatsoever
[10:25] <herve> ok, thanks!
[10:25] <lamont> unbuilt packages that are arch-all-only get built on i386 only, but show up in the w-b database as needs-build for all architectures until i386 gets around to it.
[10:25] <lamont> by which time, it's likely that the other 3 have tried and failed
[10:26] <herve> they did
[10:30] <herve> I think I have a simple one to fix
[10:30] <herve> if anyone want to try a quick&dirty
[10:30] <herve> (it's java, better be warned ;-))
[10:31] <herve> lamont, looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/g/gtkam/0.1.12-2.1/gtkam_0.1.12-2.1_20050329-2325-powerpc-given-back
[10:31] <herve> could you give it a push please?
[10:32] <tritium> ajmitch, did you ever have a chance to review my packages?
[10:32] <herve> by the way, are those xfce packages all transitioned?
[10:33] <lamont> given-back==> already in needs-build
[10:33] <herve> argh sorry
[10:33] <herve> I forgot the whole workflow
[10:55] <herve> good night all!
[10:56] <dholbach> bye herve
[10:56] <dholbach> sleep tight
[10:57] <encolpe> ah young men are so tired...
[10:57] <herve> I take it as irony :-)
[10:58] <encolpe> ;)
[10:58] <herve> I just go read, but shhh... :-)
[10:59] <dredg> hey! :)
[10:59] <bddebian> Heya dredg
[10:59] <encolpe> herve: last french-translated Pratchett ?
[10:59] <dredg> wow it's doomed
[11:00] <herve> encolpe, former lanfeust mag :-p
[11:01] <herve> okay, latest touch to the wiki
[11:01] <herve> ++
[11:04] <dholbach> hey koke!
[11:04] <koke> hi!
[11:20] <tseng> hi
[11:22] <ManuelJ> hi koke


[07:41] <keesj> arekm: I think upstart has it's own fake implementation of halt/reboot that will send a mesasge to the rest of the system
[08:15] <arekm> keesj: it does that. init receives it but doesn't act properly
[08:36] <keesj> I guess you need to implement some shutdown strategy. I also use upstart on an embedded system
[09:12] <arekm> huh? the upstart should switch to runlevel 0, no "some" strategy required
[09:13] <arekm> but it doesn't do that if it gets _any_ env passed
[17:18] <keesj> arekm: that is only true is you use the backwards compatible scripts, upstart itself has no notion of runlevels , that is something from far awy in the past :p
[17:55] <ssd71> Hi, I wanted to convert a few of my custom init scripts to Upstart jobs.  Should these jobs go in /etc/event.d/ or /etc/init/jobs.d/ (which doesn't exist).  The "getting started" page says the latter, but all my pre-installed jobs are in the former.  Is there a difference between putting jobs in event.d vs jobs.d?
[18:31] <arekm> keesj: I use scripts that are still supported by upstart
[18:41] <arekm> if that functionality is to be ignored/left buggy etc then I'll be sad :-/ (wanted to switch to upstart but can't use buggy stuff)