[15:54] <ogra_> fnop
[15:57]  * ppisati waves
[15:59]  * davidm_ waves back at ppisati
[15:59] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[15:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
[15:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00]  * NCommander kicks the wiki
[16:00] <NCommander> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110602
[16:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110602
[16:00]  * davidm_ waves at NCommander
[16:00] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[16:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[16:00] <NCommander> [topic] ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
[16:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
[16:00] <ogra_> not yet ... A2
[16:01] <NCommander> c/o'ing
[16:01]  * davidm_ arm is tired of waving
[16:01] <NCommander> [topic] ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
[16:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
[16:01] <ogra_> hmm
[16:01]  * NCommander waves back at davidm_
[16:01]  * ogra_ cant remember what exactly that was
[16:01] <NCommander> off hand, I think you had to deal with the bug with bintuils segfaulting
[16:01] <NCommander> */captian obvious*
[16:01] <ogra_> lol
[16:01] <ogra_> that much i would have guessed :)
[16:02] <ogra_> anyway, havent done that
[16:02] <ogra_> c/o
[16:02] <NCommander> k
[16:02] <NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
[16:02] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[16:03] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:03] <NCommander> hrm
[16:03] <NCommander> I think we're off the trendline a bit :-P
[16:03] <ogra_> yeah, i'll fix that
[16:03] <ogra_> just waited until we have all specs in
[16:03] <ogra_> is anyone missing anything from the tracker ?
[16:04] <ogra_> please tell me now
[16:04] <NCommander> ogra_: I'll add sometihng after you fix it
[16:04] <NCommander> :-P
[16:04]  * ogra_ whacks NCommander
[16:04] <NCommander> (all the specs have work items, checked that this morning and added a few more)
[16:04] <ogra_> looks like GrueMaster has a really boring cycle
[16:04] <ogra_> nothig to do really
[16:05]  * GrueMaster suffers a massive aneurysm looking at the number of tasks overall assigned to him.
[16:05] <ogra_> do you really expect to finish 48 WIs ?
[16:05] <ogra_> we should see that we get this lower
[16:05] <NCommander> They're all relatively small
[16:05] <ogra_> and somehow move WIs to other tema members where possible
[16:05] <NCommander> i figured I could write one massive work item
[16:05] <ogra_> *team
[16:05] <NCommander> 'Test Ubuntu Server:'
[16:06] <NCommander> or a lot of little small ones which could be distributed
[16:06] <ogra_> well, a WI needs to at least take a day
[16:06] <NCommander> ogra_: I disagree
[16:06] <ogra_> if you have like 10min tasks for WIs the amount indeed rises
[16:06] <ogra_> NCommander, thats the definition, i didnt make it up
[16:06] <NCommander> they aren't 10m tasks, but I suspect one or two a day could be done reasonably
[16:07] <NCommander> and again, GrueMaster can help delgate his work items to interested parties
[16:07] <davidm_> ogra_, we may have to adjust our definition as we have to make sure items get tracked for this cycle closely
[16:07]  * NCommander knows theres people out there with vested interested in PXE, ARM server, etc.
[16:07] <davidm_> I'm OK with 1/2 wi if they are tracking things we need to track
[16:08] <davidm_> 1/2 day that is
[16:08] <ogra_> davidm_, well, but 48 seems like an awful big number
[16:08] <ogra_> we never managed to get more than 20-25 done per release
[16:08] <ogra_> (per person that is)
[16:08] <NCommander> ogra_: our work items are usually something like 're-implement the world'
[16:08] <ogra_> (7 days)
[16:08] <ogra_> (sorry, couldnt resist :P)
[16:09] <NCommander> I also broke GrueMaster's QA spec in two specifically because the -qa- one should be medium priority
[16:09] <ogra_> anywayx, move ...
[16:09] <davidm_> ogra_, I know but I asked NCommander to make them finer for the ARM server stuff
[16:09] <NCommander> things we care about, but we can ship broken
[16:09] <davidm_> and GrueMaster will likely have some help
[16:10] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
[16:10] <ppisati> nothing exciting except for a boatload of CVE fixes for every release/flavour (lucid/[fsl-imx51|mvl-dove], maverick/ti-omap4, natty/ti-omap4)
[16:10] <NCommander> \o/
[16:10] <GrueMaster> BTW:  All (3) of my A1 WI are done.  Just updated the bp.
[16:10] <NCommander> CVEs are awesome
[16:10] <NCommander> er
[16:11] <ppisati> :)
[16:11] <NCommander> CVE FIXES are awesome
[16:11] <ppisati> actually i'm wonderting when we'll get the TI .39 drop
[16:11] <NCommander> ppisati: I think ogra still looking for the virgin sacirfice
[16:11] <NCommander> ;-)
[16:11] <ppisati> :)
[16:12] <ogra_> me ?
[16:12] <GrueMaster> ppisati: Do you have an omap3 (beagle/beagleXM)?  bug 791552 is for you.
[16:12] <ogra_> nah, i'm to aged for that virgin stuff
[16:12]  * NCommander leaves that where it falls.
[16:12] <ppisati> GrueMaster: ouch, didn't notice it
[16:12] <ppisati> GrueMaster: ok, i'll add to the backlog
[16:12] <ogra_> i could need some kernel guy to look at ac100 though :)
[16:12] <GrueMaster> Just filed yesterday.
[16:12]  * NCommander needs a kernel guy for the mx5 too :-/
[16:13] <ogra_> you have an mx5 ?
[16:13] <ogra_> just use a linro kernel
[16:13] <ogra_> *linaro
[16:13] <NCommander> ogra_: well yeah. it doesn't work.
[16:13] <ogra_> there should exiost one
[16:13] <NCommander> hence why I need a kernel guy
[16:13] <ogra_> ah
[16:13] <NCommander> :-P
[16:13] <ogra_> well, my kernel isnt in the archive yet, so you go first :P
[16:14] <NCommander> ppisati: so all the CVE fixes are in *-security now?
[16:14] <ogra_> we're just discussing to switch to .38 first before i upload
[16:14] <ppisati> NCommander: nope, but i'm pushing a lot of stuff
[16:14] <ppisati> NCommander: next cycle
[16:14] <NCommander> ppisati: awesome
[16:14] <ppisati> ogra_: .38 for tegra?
[16:14] <ogra_> ppisati, yes
[16:15]  * ppisati hopes to get the ac100 soon :)
[16:15] <ogra_> we're currently at .37
[16:15] <ogra_> ppisati, oh, that would be awesome
[16:15] <ogra_> we really lack a person who knows kernel development
[16:15] <ppisati> ogra_: davidm told me he pushed one to me
[16:15] <ogra_> even more awesome !
[16:15]  * ogra_ hugs davidm_
[16:16] <ppisati> davidm_: ah, btw, can you keep me on the list for the new TI hw when it comes? thanks
[16:17] <NCommander> can I move?
[16:17] <ppisati> yep
[16:17] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[16:17] <davidm_> I will keep the entire team in line for new hardware as it arrives
[16:17] <ppisati> davidm_: cool
[16:17] <janimo> no news, I was working on WIs
[16:17]  * NCommander has nothing to report as I've been dealing with humans
[16:17] <ogra_> looks okayish ...
[16:17] <ogra_> at least the images built
[16:17] <NCommander> I think this is the first time we hit A1
[16:17] <ogra_> nope
[16:18] <GrueMaster> Natty was.
[16:18] <janimo> I am glad to see package maintainers applying arm bits and not leaving it all to us
[16:18] <ogra_> we did hit it the last two releases
[16:18] <NCommander> oh yay
[16:18] <ogra_> GrueMaster, maverick too iirc
[16:18] <janimo> some natty poatches that were dropped get reapplied without our intervention
[16:18] <GrueMaster> Maybe for omap3.
[16:18] <ogra_> well, this time its omyp4 only :)
[16:18] <NCommander> I think we missed maverick due to an ill-timed openoffice rebuild
[16:18] <ogra_> *omap
[16:18] <NCommander> but off-topic
[16:18] <NCommander> universe is in a sorry mess
[16:19] <GrueMaster> You're going to have all that fixed by EOW, right?
[16:19] <ogra_> yes, we need more community involvement
[16:19] <ogra_> we should have specs for that for next UDS
[16:19] <GrueMaster> :P
[16:20] <ogra_> with more HW availability in the community, we should work out strategies how to get them more involved
[16:20] <NCommander> arm-p-free-beer-for-every-bug-fixed
[16:20] <NCommander> That will solve the problem.
[16:20] <ogra_> hard to deliver though
[16:20] <NCommander> To be delivered at UDS R
[16:20] <NCommander> :-)
[16:21] <NCommander> anyway
[16:21] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[16:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[16:21] <NCommander> ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[16:21] <NCommander> $#!@#!
[16:21] <ogra_> omap4 is fine
[16:21] <NCommander> I think we kinda already did this one
[16:21] <ogra_> omap3 is screwed
[16:21] <ogra_> and GrueMaster and NCommander  rock !!
[16:22] <ogra_> tzhanks guys for making A1 happen without me
[16:22] <GrueMaster> This I know.
[16:22] <GrueMaster> :P
[16:22] <NCommander> Thank GrueMaster.
[16:22]  * NCommander only did paperwork
[16:22] <ogra_> ac100 iamge is new and up on http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/tegra/2.6.37
[16:22] <GrueMaster> I noticed that LibreOffice is in the A1 netbook image.  Works good too.
[16:22] <ogra_> (and now bugfree)
[16:23] <ogra_> thanks to NCommander and Daviey for helping to identify the bugs
[16:23] <NCommander> GrueMaster: right, but now when someone opens libreoffice, we'll miss a milestone :-/
[16:23] <NCommander> ogra_: heh
[16:23] <NCommander> er
[16:23] <NCommander> builds libreoffice
[16:23] <ogra_> well, with the panda cluster it should at least get better
[16:24]  * NCommander salutees GrueMaster for his hard work on that
[16:24] <NCommander> ogra_: but more the images skew when libreoffice is uploaded
[16:24] <NCommander> I'm (in my 'free' time) working on making LP less brain dead in this respect
[16:24] <NCommander> but its slow going
[16:24] <ogra_> didnt you have a spec for it ?
[16:25] <ogra_> and do you have to do it alone
[16:25] <ogra_> ?
[16:25] <NCommander> I have a placeholder
[16:25] <NCommander> Short of someone evelating this internally, I'm not expecting any help on this
[16:26] <ogra_> NCommander, well, infinity should be around soon
[16:26] <ogra_> he should be able to do a bit of soyuz stuff
[16:26] <NCommander> I'm hoping that since we're over the A1 hump, I might find enough free time to get this implemented and save us a TON of pain
[16:26] <NCommander> ogra_: TBH, I'd prefer to implement it myself, its a good unwind project
[16:27] <ogra_> NCommander, then shove some of the other WIs over to him
[16:27] <NCommander> Will do
[16:27] <ogra_> no matter how you do it, it would be really really good to have it fixed this cycle
[16:27] <NCommander> I'm working towards loadbalancing the team. A lot of GrueMaster's work items will get moved onto janimo and infinity
[16:27] <ogra_> and if we need to make some spare time for you to do it, we should be able to find a way
[16:27]  * janimo overflows with joy
[16:28] <ogra_> lol
[16:28] <ogra_> anyway, nothing more for images here
[16:28] <NCommander> janimo: that's -65334 tears of happiness :-)
[16:28] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[16:29] <GrueMaster> Spent most of the day yesterday just trying to file a sensible bug report on the broken omap kernel.
[16:29] <janimo> NCommander, my hapiness is a short apparently
[16:29] <GrueMaster> We need to have apport installed on the headless images.
[16:29] <janimo> long long is preferred
[16:30] <ogra_> GrueMaster, tricky since we dont have a seed
[16:30] <ogra_> (and i dont really want to maintain one)
[16:30] <GrueMaster> Other than that, I did some basic boot tests on the images for A1, and dabbled a little in some of the apps that are on the netbook image for omap4.
[16:30] <ogra_> might have to change for the server images though
[16:31] <NCommander> ogra_: er, we could just add apport-cli to livecd-rootfs */hack*
[16:31] <GrueMaster> Well, the issue I had was that usb support was non-existant.  It would initialize and recognize the onboard usb hubs, but nothing that was attached from there.
[16:31] <GrueMaster> So no network support.
[16:31] <ogra_> NCommander, well, sure
[16:31] <ogra_> NCommander, but i assume our server images should have apport by default anyway
[16:32] <NCommander> ogra_: one would hope so
[16:32] <NCommander> hopefully the migration to live-helper will be done
[16:32] <GrueMaster> We should have some way of adding some minimal stuff anyways.  wifi on omap4 is non-existant on headless.
[16:32] <NCommander> I 'look' forward to implementing support for live headless images
[16:32] <NCommander> ogra_: as much as I hate to say it, I think we need a headless seed
[16:33] <ogra_> GrueMaster, yes, the basic wifi apps arent in minimal ... nor is wpa-supplicant
[16:33] <NCommander> begin crying now
[16:33] <ogra_> NCommander, i disagree
[16:33]  * ppisati kicks an omap3 kernel compilation...
[16:33] <ogra_> i think we need a server seed and images for it
[16:33] <NCommander> ogra_: adding packages to livecd-rootfs isn't going to scale :-P
[16:33] <ogra_> and leave the headless image as is :)
[16:33] <NCommander> ogra_: er, didn't we agree we wanted both?
[16:33] <ogra_> right
[16:33] <NCommander> I think yo umight be missing the point
[16:34]  * ogra_ would rather make the headless images unofficial and move forward with server here
[16:34] <ogra_> instead of having to mintain extra hacks for headless
[16:34] <GrueMaster> Headless is next to useless without some base level of packages installed.
[16:34] <janimo> although server != minimal which headless was supposed to be
[16:34] <NCommander> We're getting offtopic
[16:34] <GrueMaster> True.
[16:34] <NCommander> [topic] ABO
[16:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
[16:34] <NCommander> Now we're on topic
[16:35] <NCommander> we
[16:35] <NCommander> *er
[16:35] <ogra_> heh
[16:35] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:36] <ogra_> nothing here
[16:36] <ogra_> shoot it down :)
[16:36] <ogra_> (unless someone else shouts)
[16:36] <NCommander> I'd actually like to propose to returning on reporting individual spec status
[16:36] <NCommander> Er, sorry, individual's status
[16:37] <ogra_> returning ?
[16:37] <NCommander> (my brain is kinda fried)
[16:37] <NCommander> We used to do it when we were called the Embedded Team
[16:37] <ogra_> did we ever drop it (beyond nobody doing it i mean)
[16:37] <NCommander> We used to do NCommander's status, ogra's status
[16:37] <ogra_> when were we called the embedded team ?
[16:37] <NCommander> Back when we dealt with Moblin. It was the MobileAndEmbedded Team
[16:37] <NCommander> (according to the wiki anyway)
[16:38] <ogra_> heh
[16:38]  * ogra_ only knew it as mobile team, but well)
[16:38] <ogra_> you mean reporting personal status in the meeting ?
[16:38] <NCommander> yeah
[16:38] <ogra_> instead of wikipage ?
[16:38] <NCommander> I realize there is a time concern
[16:38] <NCommander> No, both
[16:39] <ogra_> that will eat a *loT* of extra time
[16:39] <ogra_> when we did that our meetings were like 1.5h and longer
[16:39] <NCommander> I know.
[16:39] <ogra_> thats why we dropped it
[16:39] <NCommander> hrm
[16:39] <NCommander> right
[16:39] <NCommander> I forgot that bit
[16:39] <NCommander> shutting up now
[16:39] <ogra_> so find something else to drop
[16:39] <ogra_> to compensate ...
[16:39] <ogra_> :)
[16:40] <NCommander> One other point
[16:40] <NCommander> bah
[16:40] <NCommander> Daviey isn't around
[16:40] <ogra_> Daviey is around
[16:40] <NCommander> I wanted to get some cross-reporting between Ubuntu ARM and Ubuntu Server
[16:40] <NCommander> not in this channel
[16:40] <NCommander> oh
[16:40] <NCommander> bah
[16:40]  * ogra_ takes away NCommanders blindfold
[16:40] <NCommander> I hate autocomplete
[16:41] <NCommander> And I'd like to find some volunteers to attend the weekly server team meeting
[16:41] <NCommander> and some volunteers from the server team to attend ours regularly
[16:41]  * GrueMaster hides
[16:41] <NCommander> (the meeting is 16:00 UTC on Tuesday)
[16:42] <GrueMaster> Same time as the linaro meeting.
[16:42] <ogra_> thats wed.
[16:42] <ogra_> or not ?
[16:43] <NCommander> No, the sync meeting moved to Tuesday as I found out
[16:43] <ogra_> ah, no, mixed it up with the porting jam
[16:43] <Daviey> o/
[16:43] <NCommander> that's an unfortunate choice of timezone
[16:43] <NCommander> er
[16:43] <NCommander> time
[16:43] <NCommander> oh hai Daviey
[16:43] <Daviey> hello!
[16:44] <NCommander> Daviey: we're trying to get some cross-pollination going between teh ARM and server meetings
[16:44] <Daviey> NCommander: funny you say that! :)
[16:44] <Daviey> NCommander: have you witnessed one of the -server meetings?
[16:44] <NCommander> I'd like to add a 'ARM Server' sectoin to our meeting page, with someone present from the Ubuntu Server Team
[16:44] <NCommander> Daviey: I haven't had opportunity
[16:44] <Daviey> NCommander: I'm wondering if it would be a better fit for someone arm to join a server meeting?
[16:45] <Daviey> Or format has sections for each 'interest' area.
[16:45] <Daviey> QA, Kernel, Community, Documentation
[16:45] <NCommander> as does ours (although ATM, we're quite generalized)
[16:45] <Daviey> We would happily add an Arm section :)
[16:45] <NCommander> My plan was to add a Server section
[16:46] <Daviey> NCommander: ok.. I think the thing that is a challenge.. I'm not quite sure if Oneiric ARM server is a Server project or an ARM project?
[16:46] <NCommander> Daviey: its both
[16:47] <NCommander> I don't want to hold the meeitng open, so why don't we take this offline, and then drop a notice with the next {Server,ARM} Meeting Reminder email
[16:47] <Daviey> NCommander: Okay, just for information... the interested parties in ARM on the server team are myself, zul and hallyn.
[16:47] <NCommander> [action] Daviey and NCommander to discuss cross-server/ARM team meeting
[16:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey and NCommander to discuss cross-server/ARM team meeting
[16:47] <Daviey> NCommander: sounds good.
[16:47] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[16:47] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:47.
[18:56] <mdz> #startmeeting
[18:56] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:56. The chair is mdz.
[18:56] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:56] <mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[18:56] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[18:57] <kees> \o
[18:59] <mdz> pitti isn't online, so I assume he isn't going to make it
[18:59] <mdz> sabdfl declined in the calendar
[18:59] <mdz> cjwatson is online, but he's on holiday, so he presumably won't be here
[18:59] <kees> is 3 quorum?
[19:00]  * mdz nods
[19:00] <mdz> we've regarded it as such in the past
[19:00] <kees> yeah, that's my memory too
[19:00] <mdz> [topic] Action review
[19:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
[19:00] <mdz> Persia to see if Bryce is willing to serve as LP stakeholder for Ubuntu
[19:01] <mdz> I've asked bryce asynchronously for an update
[19:01] <mdz> [topic] ffmpeg vs. libav
[19:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  ffmpeg vs. libav
[19:01] <mdz> I guess this was discussed some at the last meeting, which I wasn't present for
[19:01] <mdz> the notes said that we wanted to hear from Reinhard, and he's responded now
[19:01] <mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000891.html
[19:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000891.html
[19:02] <kees> right. given that I've seen both sides of this, I think I'm satisfied to stay where we are: libav
[19:02] <kees> trying to track ffmpeg would require a dedicated maintainer, and Ubuntu does not seem to have anyone willing to do that currently.
[19:02] <kees> I only see downsides to switching from libav.
[19:03] <mdz> libav is the status quo, so we would need a justification to switch away from it
[19:03] <kees> right, and I don't see anything significant to do that currently.
[19:04] <mdz> it's all feeling a little bit cdrecordish to me
[19:05] <mdz> Keybuk, any thoughts?
[19:05] <kees> bryce: we're looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda and have "Persia to see if Bryce is willing to serve as LP stakeholder for Ubuntu". can you speak to this at all?
 sure, I'd be happy to help
[19:06] <Keybuk> mdz: I don't believe I have the necessary background
[19:06] <Keybuk> all I saw was flamewar
[19:06] <bryce> kees, yes we spoke a couple UDSes ago, and yes I'd be happy to help
[19:06] <kees> bryce: ah-ha, perfect. thanks!
[19:07] <kees> Keybuk: did you have additional questions based on the techboard thread?
[19:07] <Keybuk> kees: I didn't see anything in the techboard thread that led me to have technical questions
[19:07] <Keybuk> nothing suggested ffmpeg was technically better, so I don't see any need to dispute the current maintainer decisions
[19:08] <Keybuk> <insert joke about the community council being the one that deals with childish disputes :p>
[19:08] <kees> Keybuk: okay, so you're okay with status quo too.
[19:08] <mdz> OK, so this came in as an inquiry from an upstream developer, suggesting that what the Ubuntu maintainer had done was not in the best interest of our users
[19:08] <mdz> I haven't heard of any complaints from our users about it yet
[19:08] <Keybuk> mdz: it came from the upstream developer of a package we weren't using though, right?
[19:08] <mdz> Keybuk, yes
[19:09] <Keybuk> I must admit, I wrote that of us "how dare Ubuntu not use *my* software, and use something else"
[19:09] <mdz> if someone wanted to maintain the other fork in Ubuntu as well, and make both available to users, that wouldn't seem unreasonable to me
[19:09] <Keybuk> and then failed to find any technical argument from the author as to why we should
[19:09] <Keybuk> mdz: agree
[19:09] <mdz> but if the maintainer chose to follow libav, the TB can't tell them whether they should package something else
[19:10] <mdz> they should be regarded as different software at this point
[19:10] <mdz> one is packaged for Ubuntu, the other is not yet (but would be welcome)
[19:10] <mdz> kees, does that seem like a reasonable position to you?
[19:10] <kees> mdz: yup.
[19:10] <mdz> OK, I'll follow up on the list
[19:10] <Keybuk> to me also
[19:11] <mdz> [action] mdz to summarize consensus on libav/ffmpeg to the mailing list
[19:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to summarize consensus on libav/ffmpeg to the mailing list
[19:11] <kees> they would have colliding binary packages, though
[19:11] <mdz> kees, that could presumably be fixed in packaging
[19:11]  * kees nods
[19:11] <mdz> [topic] Set series RM to ubuntu-release?
[19:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Set series RM to ubuntu-release?
[19:11] <mdz> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375/comments/21
[19:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375/comments/21
[19:11] <mdz> the bug mentioned there is now fixed
[19:12] <mdz> so in theory we should be able to set the series release manager to ubuntu-release
[19:12] <kees> let's do it and see what breaks?
[19:12] <mdz> let's tell people that we're doing it, and then do it, and see what breaks :-)
[19:12] <mdz> any volunteers?
[19:13] <kees> seems like it should be coordinated with skaet at least?
[19:13] <mdz> yse
[19:13] <mdz> yes
[19:14] <kees> I'm not entirely comfortable volunteering myself for this since these discussions have mostly been involved people doing archive admin work, so perhaps cjwatson?
[19:14] <kees> s/been //g
[19:14] <mdz> we can push this to the next meeting where cjwatson is here
[19:14] <mdz> it's not urgent
[19:14] <kees> ok
[19:14] <mdz> [topic] Measuring installation success/failure
[19:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Measuring installation success/failure
[19:15] <mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000857.html
[19:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000857.html
[19:15] <mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033194.html
[19:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033194.html
[19:15] <kees> aiui, ev is looking for a TB "blessing" for this data gathering.
[19:15] <mdz> I like the general idea of gathering data which will give us an indication of how effective our installer is
[19:16] <kees> I generally do too. I remain unconvinced that the proposed data gather is substantially useful, though.
[19:17] <kees> *gathering
[19:17] <mdz> Evan wasn't crystal clear about what he wanted decided
[19:17] <mdz> and several issues have cropped up in the discussion
[19:17] <mdz> Keybuk was concerned about how the collected data would be shared
[19:17] <mdz> kees, I think that's a valid concern, but perhaps not something for the TB to decide
[19:18] <mdz> I think it's Evan's responsibility to make it useful, and our responsibility to set policy for what's permissible
[19:18] <kees> mdz: that's fair
[19:19] <mdz> kees, and FWIW I would recommend to evan that he consider your advice carefully :-)
[19:20] <mdz> so the policy questions I think are regarding what data is collected, and what we do with it
[19:20] <kees> right. I don't want to get us into the trap where we approve "meaningless data collection" since it's harmless, and then end up on an unregulated slippery slope of "harmful" data collection just happening without review.
[19:20] <mdz> what is proposed to be collected is a GUID
[19:21] <kees> right, it's a random number. I have no problem with that.
[19:21] <mdz> ah, right, he did specify how it would be generated (uuidgen)
[19:21] <mdz> so it's random
[19:21] <mdz> that ID is associated with an installation attempt which was started
[19:22] <mdz> specifically, a Ubiquity installation attempt
[19:22] <mdz> it's then used to report back that the installation succeeded
[19:23] <mdz> the user implicitly shares their IP address in the process, of course
[19:24] <mdz> what's the worst thing that could be done with that information?
[19:24] <kees> the correlation of guid to IP can also be seen as an identity leak, since it could be used in the future
[19:25] <Keybuk> you could use the table of IPs collected to discern which Fortune 500 companies were using Ubuntu
[19:25] <kees> if we did not save the IP on the server side, and did not keep the GUID after install success on the client side, I think that would be okay
[19:25] <Keybuk> since they tend to have public IP blocks
[19:25] <mdz> kees, agreed, but ideally we wouldn't have to ask for that trust
[19:26] <mdz> kees, what's the identity leak?
[19:27] <kees> mdz: if the guid is saved on the client and the IP is saved on the server, it can be used to look up from what IP a given system was installed from. it's pretty minor, obviously.
[19:27] <kees> (assuming the server data is public)
[19:27] <mdz> the GUID would only be saved on the client until the next time it connected to the network
[19:27] <mdz> according to evan's proposal
[19:27] <Keybuk> if the IP is saved on the server, the information could be used by Canonical Support Sales to identify potential customers and sell support contracts to them
[19:28] <kees> right, I was stressing that it is important that guid be removed on the client.
[19:28] <Keybuk> if the IP is saved on a public server, it could be used by other support companies, or competitors
[19:28] <mdz> I didn't notice if there was discussion of how this impacts OEM installs
[19:28] <mdz> we definitely wouldn't want a UUID getting stored on factory installed systems
[19:29] <mdz> Keybuk, is there anything evil that Canonical could do that Canonical can't do by virtue of controlling DNS for archive.*.ubuntu.com already?
[19:30] <Keybuk> mdz: no, likewise Canonical already collects the IPs of booting Ubuntu machines, and could use that information for the same purposes
[19:30] <Keybuk> I'm just answering the question from a perception POV
[19:30] <mdz> there are surely already places where Ubuntu systems generate random numbers and send them over the network
[19:30] <mdz> like TLS connections
[19:31] <mdz> has anyone considered whether this could be done without generating a UUID?
[19:31] <mdz> it seems like it could
[19:31] <kees> the ephemeral keys in TLS aren't saved by the server usually
[19:32] <kees> but they're connection-based, so they don't survive the install.
[19:32] <mdz> http://installreport.ubuntu.com/start followed by http://installreport.ubuntu.com/finish, divide finishes by starts?
[19:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://installreport.ubuntu.com/start followed by http://installreport.ubuntu.com/finish, divide finishes by starts?
[19:32] <mdz> MootBot, you are too clever for your own good
[19:33] <ScottK> I was one of the objectors to this.  I don't think we should be collecting data from users that's not needed for system operation without opt-in.
[19:33] <kees> mdz: right.
[19:33] <ScottK> I'm also on a very laggy connection, so if it seems like I'm running behind, that may be why.
[19:33] <mdz> ScottK, do you want a copy of the meeting log up to this point?
[19:34] <ScottK> mdz: I have it.
[19:34] <Keybuk> ScottK: I do agree with mdz that the usefulness of this data is only interesting if it's implicit
[19:34] <kees> since ev is not here, perhaps continue this on the TB list?
[19:34] <ScottK> Keybuk: I agree that opt-in compromises the utility, but I think without opt-in it's not appropriate.
[19:35] <mdz> ScottK, what is the data that you don't feel should be collected in this case?
[19:35] <ScottK> Also I think the opt-out mechanism he proposed was sufficiently convoluted that it's equivalent to not having one.
[19:35] <ScottK> mdz: I don't think it's appropriate to engage in any user data collection without consent.
[19:36] <mdz> ScottK, I understand, but that isn't what I asked
[19:36] <ScottK> There are some things that one could inherently collect like how many people hit security.ubuntu.com for updates, but that's needed to make the system work.
[19:36] <mdz> ScottK, what data would be collected from users if we went ahead with this proposal?
[19:36] <ScottK> mdz: I'm objecting to the entire thing being opt-out.
[19:38] <kees> ScottK: do you see having a system hit "http://installreport.ubuntu.com/start" and .../finish as a problem?
[19:39] <mdz> I think ScottK is lagging as he warned he might
[19:40] <ScottK> I think that's less of a concern since there's not really any information being transmitted beyond hitting the server.  I'd need to think about it.
[19:40] <mdz> it's not strictly necessary to make the system work, but I think I would argue that there is (indirect) benefit to the user
[19:40] <mdz> if the data is used to improve the quality of the installer
[19:40] <ScottK> It's a slippery slope.
[19:40] <mdz> ScottK, yes it is
[19:40] <mdz> so we're treading cautiously
[19:41] <ScottK> I feel like needed to make the system work versus data we'd like to have is a bright line.
[19:41] <mdz> unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think that the use of a UUID is not essential to the objective, and so I don't think we need to be concerned about potentially identifying information
[19:41] <ScottK> Once you cross it, how to you define the limit?
[19:42] <mdz> I think we can distill it to the point where the only information being shared is whether Ubuntu was installed successfully or not
[19:42] <kees> hm... do-release-upgrade fetching installer-specific things when it runs, does ubiquity do anything like that on install? maybe we're already hitting a url.
[19:42] <mdz> kees, yes
[19:42] <mdz> I'm pretty sure
[19:43] <kees> so then we're half way there. we just need an on-first-boot url. that's less obvious to me, though.
[19:43] <mdz> ScottK, I think we can set limits which make sense
[19:43] <kees> ScottK: agreed -- I think having a direct operational benefit is the key.
[19:43] <mdz> kees, not quite. I think we need to store some state, and only hit the "finish" URL if we successfully hit the "start" one
[19:44] <ScottK> mdz: OK.  I'd like to see the policy for the limit made first.
[19:44] <mdz> fair enough. let's try to steer away from the technical implementation
[19:44] <mdz> I'm comfortable assuming that we can get to a point where virtually no incidental information is shared, other than what we're trying to collect
[19:45] <kees> I would agree. if there is a reason why guid would be required, that should be a separate issue.
[19:45] <mdz> so the question is: is it OK to report back whether the installation succeeded or failed?
[19:45] <ScottK> I think taking a step back from this use case, I think having a general policy in place is important.
[19:45] <maco> mdz: how do you report failed?
[19:45] <ScottK> Why is this OK, but not popcon by default?
[19:45] <mdz> possible answers include: yes (unconditionally), no (unconditionally), yes (but only opt-in), yes (but only with opt-out)
[19:45] <mdz> maco, it's implicit
[19:46] <maco> mdz: what's the difference between failed and cancelled?
[19:46] <mdz> maco, we're taking it as a given that this is possible, and we can have a separate technical discussion about how to do it
[19:47] <kees> in general, I disagree with opt-out.
[19:47] <mdz> ScottK, popcon is problematic for a few reasons, not least because there is a lot of identifying information there
[19:47] <kees> opt-in is UI-noisy and doesn't give ev what he's really after
[19:47] <ScottK> mdz: I agree, but I think someone needs to define the limit of what's OK for opt-out.
[19:47] <mdz> ScottK, but to play devil's advocate, our default web browser shares similar information without the user's consent
[19:48] <mdz> or rather, with their implicit consent, depending on how you look at it
[19:48] <mdz> kees, I agree that it's a UI wart, but why doesn't it give evan what he's after?
[19:48] <mdz> because not enough people would click the button?
[19:48] <ScottK> mdz: I would argue that doing so it a bad thing and the best that can be said about it is it represents a compromise that we have to live with.
[19:48] <kees> I would support "yes" if I could see an immediate benefit to the user. I still don't see one beyond the weak "maybe we have improved the installer" thing.
[19:49] <kees> mdz: because the numbers would then have an additional variable of "who clicked it"
[19:49] <mdz> ScottK, I don't think we have to live with it, but we do, and our users don't seem to mind
[19:49] <ScottK> How many of our users really know?
[19:49] <mdz> kees, unless that correlates somehow with success or failure of the installation, it doesn't seem relevant
[19:49] <Keybuk> mdz: they're probably completely unaware of it
[19:49] <mdz> Keybuk, exactly
[19:50] <Keybuk> the key there is whether the information is sufficiently non-identifying that they never *need* to be aware of it
[19:50] <mdz> Keybuk, I think a good test is whether, if they *did* know, they would mind
[19:50] <Keybuk> ie. if Firefox collected everyone's browsing histories and published them
[19:50] <Keybuk> it's something you would want to be aware of
[19:50] <mdz> and I don't know the answer to that, honestly
[19:50] <mdz> but it's testable
[19:50] <ScottK> The existence of branded Firefox packages given the constraints on them is making the (arguable) best of a difficult situation.
[19:50] <Keybuk> but Firefox collecting histograms about the average time a DNS lookup takes -> only Firefox cares
[19:50] <mdz> Keybuk, what about sharing which extensions you have installed, and which versions?
[19:51] <Keybuk> (and any Firefox developer, and anyone doing DNS work, and anyone optimising web sites, etc.)
[19:51] <Keybuk> but fundamentally not the user
[19:51] <mdz> sharing which web pages you're visiting in order to check for phishing attempts?
[19:52] <ScottK> mdz: I would think that would most appropriately be opt-in.
[19:52] <mdz> ScottK, I'm not sure it's realistic to come up with a general policy at this point, given there are so many subtleties to this topic
[19:52] <Keybuk> sharing everything you type into the awesomebar to third parties? :p
[19:52] <mdz> it hasn't come up enough times that it's problematic to handle on a case by case basis
[19:52] <mdz> Keybuk, sharing things you START to type into the box, in Chrome's case :-)
[19:52] <ScottK> mdz: Perhaps, but I think we need a line in the sand beyone which the TB won't go.
[19:52] <Keybuk> mdz: I was just looking at the data we collect, as it happens :D
[19:53] <mdz> ScottK, I think we already have such a line drawn at collecting PII, by way of precedent, and I would be comfortable making that explicity
[19:53] <mdz> s/ity$/it/
[19:53] <ScottK> What's your definition of PII then?
[19:54] <mdz> I'm not sure of the best way to specify that. number of bits?
[19:54] <mdz> there is always going to be room for interpretation
[19:55] <mdz> and it can be really hard to tell
[19:55] <kees> I think PII remains a judgement call, even if we explicitly declare it out of bounds
[19:55] <mdz> I agree
[19:56] <mdz> I think we have to punt on this for the time being; we aren't going to come to a conclusion in this meeting
[19:56] <mdz> but we can try to get to some other topics
[19:56] <mdz> we can continue the discussion by email
[19:56]  * ScottK agrees (re punting)
[19:56] <mdz> [topic] Policy proposal for partner repository
[19:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Policy proposal for partner repository
[19:56] <mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000875.html
[19:56] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000875.html
[19:57] <kees> I was curious how this differed from -extras
[19:57] <kees> (policy-wise)
[19:57] <mdz> kees, is there a written policy for extras which could be shared with partner?
[19:57] <kees> mdz: I couldn't find it when I looked earlier this week
[19:57] <kees> I think we should check with allison
[19:58] <mdz> I'll CC her into the email discussion for input
[19:58] <mdz> my view on this is that we'll never get a policy like this right the first time, and it will need to be updated as time goes on
[19:58] <kees> beyond that thought, nothing jumped out at me.
[19:58] <mdz> if there is a problem, we'll change the policy to prevent further problems of that kind
[19:58] <kees> right
[19:59] <kees> I'd also be curious to get archive admin opinions on this, since we may be missing some additional implicit things
[19:59] <mdz> it doesn't reference the Debian or Ubuntu policy manual, and it probably should
[20:00] <mdz> any other comments → email
[20:00] <mdz> [topic] ubuntu-techboard celebrity in Launchpad
[20:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-techboard celebrity in Launchpad
[20:00] <mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000907.html
[20:00] <mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000907.html
[20:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000907.html
[20:00] <kees> seems like we're not ready to drop this, pending additional bug fixes
[20:00] <mdz> if james_w says we can't do this yet, then I say we don't do it yet
[20:00] <kees> right
[20:01] <mdz> we're out of time
[20:01] <mdz> is there anything else urgent?
[20:01] <mdz> [topic] AOB
[20:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[20:01] <mdz> ok, thanks all
[20:01] <mdz> #endmeeting
[20:01] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:01.
[20:03] <kees> thanks mdz!


[20:54] <cyboreal_> Minnozz, after making the change, go to opendnss.com and if you are using the OpenDNS servers, you should see a page like this: http://www.opendns.com/features/guide/
[20:54] <frb-screen> too many joins/parts on this channel
[20:54] <DaSkreech> frb-screen: ignore them then
[20:54] <Ben_Cs> thanks
[20:54] <djdarkman_> is ubuntu realy not handling laptop disks the right way and causing them early to defect?
[20:55] <djdarkman_> https://launchpad.net/bug59695.html
[20:55] <frb-screen> I may just end up not using ubuntu anymore, if it can't suspend my laptop it's worthless
[20:55] <djdarkman_> I mean is this bug valid?
[20:56] <djdarkman_> I`m concerned about my laptop`s HDD`s health
[20:56] <LjL> !hdbug | djdarkman_
[20:56] <ubotu> djdarkman_: Ubuntu does *not* modify hard-drive lifespans by default. An analysis from an Ubuntu Technical Board member and ACPI expert can be found at http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77672.html (See https://launchpad.net/bug59695.html and http://tinyurl.com/2vyrft for more information)
[20:57] <djdarkman_> thankss  I`ll read it
[20:57] <BluesKaj> djdarkman_, what gave you the impression that an OS that is more organized and faster than windows can be hard on a HDD ?
[20:57] <frb-screen> because some random bloggers said it, so it MUST BE TRUE@$!$!
[20:57] <mark_> Whenever I run konqueror, I get this error:
[20:58] <mark_> konqueror: WARNING: KTempFile: Error trying to create /tmp/kde-mark/konqueror-crash-XXXXXX.log: Read-only file system
[20:58] <mark_> kio (KSycoca): ERROR: KServiceTypeFactory: unexpected object entry in KSycoca database (type =<PHONE_NUMBER>)
[20:58] <DaSkreech> LjL: Ha ha :)
[20:58] <mark_> kio (KMimeType): WARNING: KServiceType::offers : servicetype KURIFilter/Plugin not found
[20:58] <mark_> kio (KSycoca): ERROR: KServiceTypeFactory: unexpected object entry in KSycoca database (type =<PHONE_NUMBER>)
[20:58] <mark_> kio (KMimeType): WARNING: KServiceType::offers : servicetype KonqAboutPage not found
[20:58] <mark_> kio (KSycoca): ERROR: KServiceTypeFactory: unexpected object entry in KSycoca database (type =<PHONE_NUMBER>)
[20:58] <mark_> kio (KMimeType): WARNING: KServiceType::offers : servicetype KonqAboutPage not found
[20:58] <mark_> konqueror: WARNING: KonqFactory::createView : no factory
[20:58] <mark_> konqueror: WARNING: Profile Loading Error: View creation failed
[20:58] <mark_> It seems that my whole filesystem was switched to be read-only.
[20:58] <BluesKaj> bloggers shmoggers !, frb-screen :)
[20:58] <mark_> But I can't open konqueror, so I can't fix it, unless I chmod every file . . .
[20:58] <LjL> !paste | mark_
[20:58] <ubotu> mark_: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #kubuntu channel topic)
[20:59] <mark_> Oh, yeah . . .  sorry.
[20:59] <mark_> But I couldn't do that, anyway, because Konqueror won't open, and neither will Firefox, so I'm browserless.
[20:59] <LjL> mark_: well *is* it read-only? "mount" will tell yuo
[21:00] <emilsedgh> !clock
[21:00] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about clock - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[21:00] <emilsedgh> !cloak
[21:00] <ubotu> Tor & other common anonymizing proxies get abused to attack & spam Ubuntu channels, so they're blocked. Get a cloak from Freenode instead, and stop wasting your time with Tor: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[21:00] <mark_> The first line of mount tells me "/dev/hdb1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)", so I don't think it really is read-only . . .
[21:00] <cyboreal_> frb-screen, what's your laptop that won't suspend?
[21:00] <mark_> But it's acting that way.
[21:00] <frb-screen> Thinkpad T60p
[21:01] <mark_> And whenever I open a kde app, I'm told that there's missing mimetypes.
[21:01] <frb-screen> and yes, I've done a websearch. No, I have an intel wireless card, Yes, I've removed powernowd
[21:01] <LjL> mark_: have you used checkinstall by any chance?
[21:01] <cyboreal_> frb-screen, you've been on the thinkwiki.org site and tried things from http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/quirk/quirk-suspend-index.html
[21:02] <kritzstapf> hi, the amarok moodbar doesnt work for mp3 files anymore, whats wrong?
[21:02] <mark_> LjL: I haven't.  What does it do?
[21:02] <cyboreal_> thinkpads in general are supposed to be pretty good for ACPI/suspend stuff
[21:02] <LjL> mark_: it sometimes messes with the root filesystem's permissions quite heavily
[21:02] <djdarkman_> BluesKaj: my warranty for my laptop is almost over and I work on my laptop
[21:02] <mark_> LjL: It's not installed.
[21:03] <LjL> kritzstapf: Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-plugins-good, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad | gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad, amarok  <- do you have these installed?
[21:03] <LjL> mark_: if you run a « touch /tmp/testfile », does it succeed?
[21:04] <mark_> I get a "touch: cannot touch `/tmp/testfile': Read-only file system"
[21:04] <mark_> :-(
[21:04] <kritzstapf> LjL: im using xine for playback
[21:04] <LjL> mark_: what about your home directory? « touch ~/testfile »
[21:05] <mark_> touch: cannot touch `/home/mark/testfile': Read-only file system
[21:06] <mark_> LjL: Is there some way to make it all writable at once?
[21:06] <mark_> Without chmodding every directory . . .
[21:06] <LjL> mark_: should like to understand why it's turned read-only in the first place...
[21:06] <jpatrick> mark_: chmod -R * ?
[21:06] <LjL> mark_: have you tried just rebooting? that was, if there are filesystem errors, they should be caught by fsck
[21:07] <LjL> jpatrick: hell no
[21:07] <jpatrick> LjL: right /goes back to pkging
[21:07] <mark_> LjL: chmod: invalid mode: `1000 Miglia.zip'
[21:07] <LjL> mark_: which part of "hell no" wasn't clear?
[21:07] <mark_> That's what I get with chmod -R * ?
[21:08] <LjL> anyway, no harm done, since it's read only...
[21:08] <mark_> I guess I'll attempt a reboot . . .
[21:08] <frb-screen> oh joy
[21:08] <LjL> mark_: try also « grep hdb /var/log/syslog » and same for /var/log/messages
[21:09] <kritzstapf> LjL: ah thanks, i reinstalled moodbar using aptitude so the recommends got installed and now its working :)
[21:09] <LjL> to try to find out when/why/how it happened
[21:09] <frb-screen> "CRITICAL ERROR: Using ATI binary driver. This is not supported!"
[21:09] <tuny> Hola
[21:10] <jpatrick> !es | tuny
[21:10] <ubotu> tuny: Si busca ayuda en Español por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, allí obtendrá mas ayuda.
[21:10] <mark_> LjL: grep hdb /var/log/syslog shows a lot of errors.  Would you like to see them?  I'll query you so that I don't flood the main chat.
[21:10] <LjL> mark_: how much is "a lot"? if they're really many, you'll just flood out of irc
[21:11] <tuny> ;)
[21:11] <tuny> thk
[21:11] <mark_> 24 Screens full.  :-(  I could do them a few lines at a time, in a query, if you want.
[21:11] <DaSkreech> TimS: ut!!
[21:11] <TimS> Indeed
[21:12] <LjL> mark_: are they *different* from one another? anyway, just paste the last 30 or so
[21:13] <mark_> Alright.  I'll put them in a query.
[21:13] <DaSkreech> TimS: Any word on ]I[ ?
[21:13] <frb-screen> how do I switch to Xorg from Xgl?
[21:13] <TimS> Whats that?
[21:13] <frb-screen> ut3, duh!
[21:14] <frb-screen> well, it's gone gold, no clue on linux ports
[21:15] <LjL> mark_: it doesn't sound good to me at all. i'll put that into the pastebin so others can add their opinions - i suspect a bad HD is not unlikely anyway
[21:15] <LjL> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42848/
[21:15] <mark_> LjL:  Yikes.
[21:16] <mark_> It could be.  I've had a lot of problems on startup over the past few days.
[21:16] <LjL> mark_: problems like what?
[21:17] <LjL> mark_: and how long have you been using ubuntu overall? the problems didn't start immediately?
[21:17] <mark_> LjL:  Usually it starts up in about 30 seconds, but a few times its been taking several minutes.  The other day I had a filesystem error that fsck couldn't handle automatically, and I had to run it manually.
[21:18] <bascule> bad drive?
[21:18] <mark_> And a few times some shell think called "busybox" comes up, instead of the kubuntu login screen.
[21:18] <LjL> mark_: bad drive is most likely. do you have a live CD handy? you should boot from it, install smartmontools, and run smartctl
[21:18] <mark_> I've been using Kubuntu for about six months.  The errors mostly started recently.
[21:19] <bascule> seatools is very good too, from seagate
[21:19] <mark_> LjL:  Will the Kubuntu CD work for that?  And what does smartctl do?
[21:22] <LjL> mark_, the kubuntu cd will do fine. smartctl is a tool to check the SMART parameters, which are basically sensors in your hard drive that monitor for possible failures
[21:23] <LjL> if « sudo smartctl -H /dev/hdb » says that your drive's tests are not PASSED, then backup immediately and go buy a new drive
[21:23] <DaSkreech> frb-screen: LInux port in the works no idea when it ships. It's coming
[21:24] <LjL> if it says they're PASSED, then run « sudo smartctl -A /dev/hdb » (which gives you a more verbose report) and see if there's anything suspicious
[21:25] <DaSkreech> !info smartmontools
[21:25] <ubotu> smartmontools: control and monitor storage systems using S.M.A.R.T.. In component main, is optional. Version 5.37-5ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 280 kB, installed size 684 kB
[21:26] <jose__> hola
[21:28] <Lam_> where are the notes for knotes stored?
[21:31] <DaSkreech> Lam_: In your ~/.kde folder I guess
[21:33] <mark_> LjL: Okay.  I'll run the live CD in just a bit, and then come back to give you guys the verdict.
[21:34] <frb-screen> well isn't this a spot of bother
[21:35] <frb-screen> I either get good graphics, and no power management, or crappy graphics, and manual power management
[21:38] <lars_g> Hi all
[21:38] <lars_g> question, since I don't see a news item in kubuntu.com, hasn't any third party made 4.0b4 debs yet?
[21:38] <lars_g> I don't have that much time to pull and compile :)
[21:38] <gundam_rx78nt1> As I  sit myself in the middle of this chat room...
[21:38] <MarcC> is this bad? "193 Load_Cycle_Count  0x0032   086   086   000  Old_age  Always   -   29187"
[21:39]  * lars_g pushes gundam_rx78nt1
[21:39] <Angelus> is there a place where i can put something on the calendar? not an apointment , just to write something short for this day for example
[21:39] <lars_g> get up bum
[21:39] <gundam_rx78nt1> Only one idea arises... A plea for HELP!
[21:39] <lars_g> Angelus: use the journal
[21:39] <lars_g> Angelus: in kontact
[21:39] <Angelus> hmm
[21:39] <gundam_rx78nt1> I have lost all my buttons on all of the kde programs.
[21:39] <gundam_rx78nt1> how do I recover them?
[21:40] <lars_g> Angelus: I'm not sure how to access the journal outside kontact, but it's a kde component, associated to the calendar file, and lets you entry journal entries for the whole day
[21:42] <Angelus> thankss guys
[21:42] <gundam_rx78nt1> how can I recover my buttons on the tool bars of my KDE programs, I did an upgrade from 7.04 to 7.10 and all my kde buttons on tool bars and software like amarok has lost the buttons.
[21:42] <Angelus> the journal rocks
[21:45] <ardchoille> gundam_rx78nt1: Most toolbars can be configured by right clicking on them.. and most toolbars have a "Defaults" button to return them to factory configs
[21:45] <frb-screen> how can I use wildcards in apt-get?
[21:45] <MarcC> sudo apt-get *.* will get you the whole shebang, baby
[21:45] <MarcC> every linux app, ever
[21:46] <ardchoille> Correction: every app that is in the repos
[21:46] <frb-screen> I tried apt-get install x11proto*dev but it said it couldn't find that
[21:46] <frb-screen> there is a pile of packages in x11proto-*-dev though
[21:46] <DaSkreech> Angelus: Ask in #kontact
[21:46] <frb-screen> oh, it's a regex, not a glob
[21:47] <gundam_rx78nt1> ardchoille, it doesn't work...
[21:47] <gundam_rx78nt1> I changed it to default and still the buttons doesn't show up/
[21:47] <ardchoille> gundam_rx78nt1: What doesn't work? Right clicking? Configuring?
[21:47] <gundam_rx78nt1> Configuring.
[21:47] <ubuntu_> LjL:  I'm back.
[21:47] <ardchoille> gundam_rx78nt1: Did you restart that app?
[21:47] <gundam_rx78nt1> yes.
[21:47] <ardchoille> gundam_rx78nt1: Then I don't know :(
[21:47] <gundam_rx78nt1> let's say I open amarok.
[21:48] <ubuntu_> LjL:  smartctl said that it passed, so I ran it with the -A option.
[21:48] <gundam_rx78nt1> None of the previous track, play, stop, next track buttons appear.
[21:48] <gundam_rx78nt1> Same for other programs like K3b.
[21:49] <ubuntu_> LjL: You there?
[21:49] <ratman> gundam have you tried with other user? Does the problem persists?
[21:50] <gundam_rx78nt1> Let me configure another user and I will get back to you ratman.
[21:50] <gundam_rx78nt1> I didn't think of trying that.
[21:50] <gundam_rx78nt1> brb.
[21:50] <ratman> ok
[21:51] <lars_g> so no community built kde 4.0B4 deb built yet?
[21:52] <ubuntu_> Hello everyone, I've been having hard drive problems.  LjL told me to run from a live CD and see whether my drive is dying, using smartctl.
[21:52] <emilsedgh> lars_g: try svn, thats easy if you have a good internet connection
[21:52] <ubuntu_> It said that it passed, so I ran it with the -A option, to see if I could find anything else out.
[21:53] <ubuntu_> I don't really understand the output, though, so does anyone want to examine it for me?
[21:53] <bascule> ubuntu_: go for seatools from seagate
[21:53] <bascule> because if a drive has smart disabled it might not work
[21:53] <ubuntu_> Alright.  Does that do the same sort of thing as smartctl does, or what?  (I'm _mark_, from before, by the way)
[21:54] <bascule> ubuntu_: sur eI guessed, sea tools is a boot disc that checks for bad sectors in a drive
[21:54] <LjL> ubuntu_: pastebin the output
[21:54] <LjL> bascule, if smart is disabled, i believe smartctl would say so
[21:55] <ubuntu_> It was disabled, but it told me how to enable it, so I did.
[21:55] <ubuntu_> I'll pastebin it, just a second . . .
[21:55] <bascule> ok
[21:56] <gundam_rx78nt1> Ok, I am back. It appears that I have lost my buttons on KDE only on my user account.  All other accounts are fine.
[21:56] <bascule> gundam_rx78nt1: probably a theme issue, change to crystal or some default that ships with kubuntu
[21:56] <ratman> gundam, sometimes when you update some hidden files in your $HOME became obsolete
[21:56] <gundam_rx78nt1> Ok. Let me try that.
[21:57] <ubuntu_> LjL and bascule: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42852/
[21:58] <ratman> another way is to clean the hidden dirs related to kde an qt, but be aware to backup your mail, konqueror bookmarks and stuff like that because you'll lose them.
[22:00] <LjL> ubuntu_, i don't like this: 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0032   137   137   112    Old_age   Always       -       249
[22:00] <LjL> it sounds like a hard drive that is about to fail to me
[22:00] <ubuntu_> So I'd better back it up and wait to see what happens, later?
[22:00] <LjL> backup your data while you can
[22:01] <ubuntu_> Okay.
[22:01] <LjL> do it from the live CD if at all possible
[22:01] <LjL> the less you use the HD, the higher the chances that it won't fail before you've finished backing up
[22:02] <gundam_rx78nt1> ratman, I was thinking of that... what file keeps my kde settings that I can compare with another user's so I can make the appropriate changes?
[22:02] <ubuntu_> I'll see if I can.  I have two CD drives, but I've got the live CD in the only writable one right now, so I'll have to restart to do it.  You can't take a live CD out while running, right?
[22:03] <LjL> ubuntu_: i don't think so... "can i burn cds from the live cd" is a recurring question, but i've never caught an answer to it
[22:03] <LjL> and i'm not very familiar with the live cd
[22:03] <bascule> ubuntu_: you got 21544 hours out that drive and ~3500 boots , just thought i'd mention it :)
[22:03] <ratman> There are serveral files, if you want to change to a different user, the easiest way is to use the import/export capabilities of the different applications.
[22:04] <ubuntu_> bascule: Wow, I didn't realise I'd run it so many times!  I bought this computer on eBay, though, so a lot of that is probably the guy who had it before me.
[22:04] <gundam_rx78nt1> Ok, I think that I am going to be doing some heavy duty file surgery... schedule the operation for tomorrow morning.
[22:04] <gundam_rx78nt1> I have more time then and be wide awake.  I just pulled a 36 hour shift.
[22:05] <ratman> ok, best luck, it's not difficult, it've done it several times.
[22:05] <bascule> ubuntu_: second hand machine, well it did ok .. :)
[22:05] <gundam_rx78nt1> Ok, I will tell you how I did ratman, thanks.
[22:05] <ratman> you've wellcome
[22:05] <gundam_rx78nt1> ciao
[22:05] <LjL> ubuntu_, i'm not expert really, but i'm not giving that drive more than a week of life at most - just to say i'm not kidding about the backing up thing
[22:07] <ubuntu_> LjL: I'll definitely back it up.  If I put the Live CD in my DVD drive, do you think I'll be able to write a CD with K3B using my CD-R drive?
[22:07] <Ch1ppy> hey, does anyone know when packages for kde4 beta 4 will be out?
[22:07] <frb-screen> when you build them
[22:07] <LjL> ubuntu_: once smartctl -H starts not saying "PASSED" anymore, then it means that, on average, the drive won't last another 24 hours
[22:07] <LjL> ubuntu_: you should, yes
[22:07] <Ch1ppy> frb-screen: usually there's an official release of some sort, which I'd trust more than something I did myself...
[22:11] <ubuntu_> LjL and bascule: I just thought that it might be a good idea to check my Windows harddrive (hda), too: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42854/  Can you tell if it's in trouble, too?
[22:12] <bazhang> something seems to have serious memory leakage--is there a way to flush the ram or correct/diagnose this?
[22:13] <snes_rocks> Is there a way to diagnose why my Kicker is not starting automatically when I login?
[22:13] <BluesKaj> bazhang, install htop
[22:14] <bazhang> BluesKaj: is that the gui for top?
[22:14] <BluesKaj> sortof , but it still runs in the cli
[22:14] <ratman> htop is a top in steroids
[22:15] <bazhang> ok cheers ratman and BluesKaj
[22:16] <nanook62> engen
[22:17] <ardchoille> BluesKaj: htop is quite nice
[22:17] <LjL> ubuntu_: i'd say it could be better - it's certainly old, just slightly less than the other... i couldn't really say. it may be good for quite another while, or it may fail quite suddenly
[22:17] <BluesKaj> yup, works well , ardchoille
[22:17] <ratman> I've discovered htop recently, I haven't used top anymore.
[22:17] <LjL> ubuntu_: it isn't showing a big warning sign like the other one, at any rate
[22:18] <ubuntu_> LjL: "5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct" is the line that shows how dangerous things are getting right, and the bigger the number, the worse?
[22:19] <LjL> ubuntu_: that's just one of the possible failure types, but yes - it's the only really worrying one on both drives. basically it's saying how many sectors of the drive went bad, and had to be replaced with spare ones (modern drives have a certain number of "excess" sectors for that purpose)
[22:20] <ubuntu_> Ah.
[22:20] <LjL> ubuntu_: although "the bigger the number, the worse" depends on which number you're talking about. that's true for the *last* number.
[22:20] <LjL> ubuntu_: the other numbers are normalized, and low = "bad". specifically, the drive manufacturer claims that, below 112, the drive can be considered "gone"
[22:20] <ubuntu_> That's the number I meant.
[22:21] <ubuntu_> So hdb is about 20 above the limit, and hda is about 50 . . .
[22:22] <ubuntu_> Yeah, that's pretty close.
[22:25] <snes_rocks> How can I find where my Compiz is being started at?
[22:26] <TimS> URGH Klipper is terrible.
[22:26] <TimS> I copy something, it puts it on the clipboard, but I cannot paste it untill I select it
[22:26] <TimS> WHY?
[22:27] <BluesKaj> snes_rocks, usually the login page
[22:29] <frb-screen> anyone have experience with pm-utils? I'm having an issue with getting the quirks to be default
[22:35] <MarcC> if you want some neat clocks for your KDE panel, install StyleClock...I just found it
[22:41] <frb-screen> how do I completely remove NetworkMangler?
[22:42] <FireHazard17> i am recompiling my kernel should i enable smp i have a dual core processor but i can not figure out if smp only refers to 2 separate cpu or if dual core processors would benefit from this too
[22:43] <ratman> i think dual core processor will enjoy smp
[22:43] <pvandewyngaerde> yes
[22:43] <FireHazard17> ok thank you
[22:43] <FireHazard17> people in kubuntu are much smarter than the people in ubuntu
[22:43] <FireHazard17> i have noticed
[22:44] <frb-screen> but can they get me a cookie?
[22:44] <pvandewyngaerde> smart people choose kubuntu
[22:44]  * MarcC gets frb-screen a cookie
[22:45] <frb-screen> smart people don't use network mangler
[22:45] <SMP_ca> hello? I would like to know what resolution is my screen using...
[22:45] <DaSkreech>  helpersnack | frb-screen
[22:45] <DaSkreech> !helpersnack | frb-screen
[22:45] <ubotu> frb-screen: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
[22:46] <MarcC> SMP_ca: control panel
[22:47] <SMP_ca> do you mean kcontrol - Monitor & Display ?
[22:47] <vzduch> SMP_ca: how about looking in the monitor's on-screen menu?
[22:48] <djdarkman_> smart people realy get annoyed at network manager
[22:48] <SMP_ca> it does not work, when I press "Monitor & Display" nothing appears
[22:48] <djdarkman_> :)
[22:48] <MarcC> SMP_ca: you can also install a panel applet for changing resolution
[22:48] <frb-screen> djdarkman_: exactly why I want to disable it
[22:48] <SMP_ca> how?
[22:48] <pvandewyngaerde> network manager doesn't shutdown proper
[22:48] <frb-screen> I see no reason at all why I wouldn't want both wireless and wired enabled at the same time
[22:48] <vzduch> it's normally already there, you only need to start it --> xrandrtray or so
[22:49] <MarcC> network manager seems to take longer to resume from suspend now
[22:49] <frb-screen> vista did that part right
[22:49] <djdarkman_> network manager ignores manual network configuration...and that realy pissed me off
[22:50] <frb-screen> on the laptop in vista, if I have a connection running on wireless, and plug in the network cable, the original connection isn't dropped
[22:50] <aks44> howdy
[22:51] <djdarkman_> two things that simple aren`t right in kubuntu nowdays is knetworkmanager and strigi...
[22:51] <frb-screen> what is a strigi?
[22:51] <bazhang> search tool
[22:51] <djdarkman_> strigi is the desktop search that supposed to be very good
[22:52] <aks44> supposed*
[22:52] <aks44> ^^
[22:52] <frb-screen> umm, why do all these FOSS projects have such worthless names?
[22:52] <djdarkman_> but all it does is crash all the time and make gigantic index files
[22:52] <djdarkman_> I don`t care how they name it, if it works
[22:52] <pvandewyngaerde> djdarkman_:  turn it off then
[22:52] <frb-screen> it's a fight between medications and FOSS to make the worst named product
[22:52] <hydrogen> well
[22:52] <hydrogen> its not jsut FOSS
[22:53] <frb-screen> strigi, now with abilify!
[22:53] <aks44> djdarkman_: that's my whole impression about 7.10 :s
[22:53] <aks44> not just strigi :s
[22:53] <hydrogen> what exactly does excel mean?
[22:53] <bazhang> and Vista is a good name?
[22:54] <bazhang> I prefer Vixta(.org)
[22:54] <djdarkman_> btw I turned off both, but don`t understand why do alpha quality softwares get into the default install
[22:54] <frb-screen> do well or better: to do better than all others, than a given standard, or than previous personal achievement
[22:55] <hydrogen> well
[22:55] <hydrogen> no
[22:55] <hydrogen> I'm not exactly sure what that means
[22:55] <hydrogen> but I get the idea
[22:55] <hydrogen> and thats what the description is for, not the name
[22:55] <hydrogen> If all programs that played music were named "Audio Player" how confusing would support get?
[22:55] <hydrogen> "Hi, Audio Player isn't work"
[22:55] <bazhang> :}
[22:55] <hydrogen> "Okay, is it audio player with gui, or audio player with gui, or audio player with gui"
[22:56] <frb-screen> there's a difference between useless names, and obvious names
[22:56] <xavier_> hey there
[22:56] <hydrogen> "Well, its audio player with gui"
[22:56] <hydrogen> oh, okay then!
[22:56] <bazhang> hi xavier_
[22:56] <djdarkman_> "Okay, is it audio player with kde, or audio player with gnome, or audio player with ncurses" :)
[22:56] <hydrogen> nope
[22:56] <hydrogen> that doesn't work
[22:56] <hydrogen> because gnome and kde are not that clear
[22:56] <aks44> who cares about names anyway?
[22:56] <hydrogen> so we would need to call them all user interface
[22:57] <frb-screen> and this is why I don't try to have conversations with linux users
[22:57] <hydrogen> except you area
[22:57] <hydrogen> are*
[22:57] <hydrogen> so thats a notapoitn
[22:57] <bazhang> speaking of names--there was an oxygen on the channel yesterday :}
[22:57] <xavier_> i have a great bug in kubuntu7.10 when i turn my PC off it restart after 1 min of pause without doing something, but if i shut it down with Konsole that worx properly :/
[22:57] <NickPresta> frb-screen, then why are you in a channel full of GNU+Linux users? ;)
[22:57] <frb-screen> no, actually since the channel is useless, except for the 2 people out of what are here 600?
[22:58]  * djdarkman_ prays that someday even kde will have a working network manager and a desktop search
[22:58] <NickPresta> djdarkman_, what's wrong with knetworkmanager?
[22:58] <frb-screen> network manager's flaws  have nothing to do with kde
[22:59]  * aks44 prays that someday canonical will release a working Kubuntu...
[22:59] <bazhang> works fine here..
[22:59] <aks44> 7.10 is a PITA :s
[22:59] <NickPresta> aks44, you can always go back to Feisty if you so prefer :)
[22:59] <aks44> 7.04 was fine though
[22:59] <frb-screen> network manager is fine, unless you want more than 1 interface active
[22:59] <djdarkman_> knetwork manager doesn`t obey when I tell it to use a manual setup, it always forces dhcp
[22:59] <frb-screen> or if you need to use dhcp with a manual gateway and DNS
[22:59] <aks44> NickPresta: I think that's what I'm gonna do ;)
[23:00] <aks44> anyway, do any of you know how to disable that "bulletproofX" thing?
[23:00] <frb-screen> aks44: no idea, but it doesn't work here
[23:01] <frb-screen> 7.10 still drops to a console when I break X
[23:01] <aks44> this is what I'm having trouble with (it incorrectly detects my screen DPI, making my X display 5-6 lines of text per 1280x1024)
[23:02] <b0nn> what a fucking nightmare upgrading is
[23:02] <aks44> since I installed gutsy I have to go back on terminal 1, killall kdm / startx to have a working display -.-
[23:02] <frb-screen> I think I'll go back to suse, it lets me disable networkmanager, and has kde4 packages
[23:02] <aks44> b0nn: I did a clean install....
[23:02] <b0nn> I upgraded from edgy->feisty yesterday and I have lost the system
[23:03] <djdarkman_> frb-screen: wrong
[23:03] <frb-screen> about what?
[23:04] <djdarkman_> frb-screen: you can totally remove knetwork manager in kubuntu too, and kubuntu has kde4 packs too
[23:04] <frb-screen> well, I asked at least 30 minutes ago, and go no answer
[23:04] <FireHazard17> finally my new kernel is compiling after 30 min of tweaking the config file
[23:04] <frb-screen> I whined about it for another 10 minutes, and got no answer
[23:04] <aks44> djdarkman_: you CAN'T remove knetworkmanager from gutsy
[23:05] <FireHazard17> akrus: why can't you?
[23:05] <djdarkman_> about how to make knetwokmanager behave?
[23:05] <frb-screen> I don't want to use it at all, ever, it's worthless to me
[23:05] <aks44> tried to removed it numerous times, to no avail, it's still there
[23:05] <djdarkman_> it`s easy remove the avahi deamon it`s the main problem
[23:05] <RLoggia> xevious: you there?
[23:05] <djdarkman_> about the kde4 packagees, I use ksysguard from kde4 so they work
[23:05] <frb-screen> suse has it as a basic option in the network config
[23:06] <RLoggia> sub[t]rnl: you there?
[23:06] <lordofthepigs> Hello, when I add a new panel to kicker, I can't seem to configure it
[23:06] <djdarkman_> lordofthepigs: what do you want to configure?
[23:06]  * frb-screen wanders off to try and do a little work before leaving the office
[23:07] <bazhang> b0nn: going for a fresh install now?
[23:07] <b0nn> nope
[23:08] <b0nn> going to install windows :)
[23:08] <snikker> i've installed gimp, but i don't have any script-fu in the menu... can you help me?
[23:08] <bazhang> ugh
[23:08] <b0nn> at any rate look at this http://pastebin.ca/757066
[23:08] <b0nn> to install kubuntu-desktop I ineed cupsys running
[23:09] <biovore> yup.. kubuntu-desktop is a virtual packages.. it install a bunch of different packages..
[23:09] <lordofthepigs> when I right click the new panel, and select "configure panel", it always opens the configuration window for the original panel (the default one)
[23:09] <lordofthepigs> I'm on gutsy
[23:09] <lordofthepigs> Does anybody know how I can configure my new panel?
[23:09] <bazhang> b0nn: nothing at that link that I can see
[23:11] <DaSkreech> snikker: new Gimp does have scriptfu
[23:12] <snikker> DaSkreech: yes, but why i don't have it?
[23:12] <lordofthepigs> hmm... I lost my connection for a while, did I miss anything?
[23:13] <DaSkreech> snikker: Sorry Doesn't have
[23:13] <DaSkreech> snikker: They moved it to .. elsewhere I forget
[23:13] <jussi01> got a stupid question, what package do i need for kde headers??
[23:14] <DaSkreech> kde-devel i guess
[23:15] <jussi01> DaSkreech: heh... bit of a headdesk duh... :) (its late....)
[23:15] <snikker> DaSkreech: the strange thing is that i've it in "/usr/share/gimp/2.0/scripts", but gimp don't recognize it
[23:15] <DaSkreech> jussi01: Yeah the first thing i check for for headers is the -devel package
[23:15] <DaSkreech>  if not then the -development :)
[23:15] <DaSkreech> snikker: I think the new one justm oved it from it's own menu
[23:15] <jussi01> DaSkreech: me too.... usually... its late... probably time for sleep...
[23:16] <DaSkreech>  check the gimp site and they will have more info
[23:16] <DaSkreech> jussi01: Preach it
[23:16] <snikker> DaSkreech: ok, i try to check the gimp site
[23:17] <DaSkreech> snikker: Tey rethought the Menus
[23:17] <blendtux> what is a good download manager for linux
[23:17] <blendtux> or petter put kde
[23:18] <snikker> DaSkreech: it's possible fix this?
[23:21] <lordofthepigs> blendtux: for now I've been using kget and xdownloader
[23:21] <blendtux> oke and kget can open multiple connections and downloading parts
[23:22] <lordofthepigs> hmm... I've just started using it... AFAIK, no
[23:22] <lordofthepigs> but xdownloader can
[23:22] <DaSkreech> snikker: I think that in the view of the developers hiding the script-fu IS fixing it
[23:22] <DaSkreech>  I thnk it's under filters
[23:23] <DaSkreech> blendtux: kget integrates with konqueror as well
[23:24] <blendtux> i know but i dont use konqueror
[23:25] <lordofthepigs> Hmmm... so nobody has any ideas about my panel problem?
[23:26] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: Isn't there a drop-do0wn menu at the top to choose which panel to configure?
[23:27] <ardchoille> I remember seeing that at one time
[23:27] <DaSkreech> lordofthepigs: which panel?
[23:27] <lordofthepigs> ardchoille: not that I can i see
[23:27] <snikker> DaSkreech: oh, ok.. thnks for support
[23:27] <sir_joshimus> i have a partition thats mounted with root permission, how do i change it so that its got user permission?
[23:28] <sir_joshimus> with konq?
[23:28] <lordofthepigs> DaSkreech: I would like to replicate ubuntu's panel layout, one on the top and one on the bottom instead of one single big one on the bottom
[23:28] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: Hmm, seems that option is gone now. I remember it in Dapper
[23:28] <lordofthepigs> DaSkreech: and I can't configure the height of the bottom panel because when I select "Configure panel" from the context menu, it opens a configuration dialog for the original panel only
[23:31] <DaSkreech> snikker: It's under the filter option?
[23:32] <DaSkreech> lordofthepigs: What kind of panel do you have at the bottom?
[23:33] <lordofthepigs> a "Panel"
[23:33] <lordofthepigs> I added it using "add new panel->Panel"
[23:35] <DaSkreech> lordofthepigs: Works here
[23:35] <DaSkreech> lordofthepigs: walk through your steps
[23:36] <bascule> lordofthepigs: I can configure thisthing fully, when you say configure panel there is a drop down box, make sure it says panel and not main panel
[23:36] <snikker> DaSkreech: yes, it is. thank you.
[23:36] <DaSkreech> snikker: Welcome!
[23:37] <earl_> hey can anyone help me out? i
[23:37] <earl_> oops
[23:37] <earl_> i'm trying to configure the panel, specifically, the notification tray.
[23:37] <earl_> i dont want it to be gray anymore
[23:37] <ardchoille> DaSkreech: There is no dropdow box here when I configure panels
[23:38] <lordofthepigs> DaSkreech: I moved the original panel to the top, used "configure panel" to set its size to tiny, added a new panel at the bottom of the screen, added the desktop switcher and the task bar applet to the new panel
[23:38] <lordofthepigs> bascule: where exactly is this drop down box, I can't find any
[23:38] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: I can't find it either
[23:38] <bascule> at the top of the first configure pael bit
[23:38] <DaSkreech> earl_: join the convo ;) we are talking about the panel now
[23:39] <bascule> settings for: <drop down box>
[23:39] <ardchoille> bascule: The "Configure - KDE Panel" Window? It's not there on mine
[23:39] <earl_> well i'm oooooonly interested in the panel, as i'm actually trying to integrate it into avant window manager
[23:39] <earl_> err
[23:39] <earl_> only interested in the notification tray.
[23:39] <lordofthepigs> bascule: there is no such thing here...
[23:39] <DaSkreech> It's there on mine
[23:40] <earl_> there?
[23:40] <bascule> ardchoille: right click anything on the main panel, configure panels, at the top middle of the dialog there is a drop down menu configure panel: <drop down box>
[23:40] <ardchoille> bascule: Yes, that is where it was in Dapper, but that dropdown box is not there on my system
[23:40] <lordofthepigs> bascule: I don't have anything there
[23:40] <DaSkreech> earl_: Notification?
[23:40] <DaSkreech> I'm on Gutsy
[23:41] <earl_> yes the systray, daskreech
[23:41] <blendtux> lordofthepigs: where can i get xdownloader
[23:41] <DaSkreech> It's here for me
[23:41] <DaSkreech> Ah system tray
[23:41] <bascule> ardchoille: lordofthepigs try adding kdeextras or kdeadmin
[23:41] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs , bascule I see that dropdown box when I open kcontrol and configure panels, but it isn't there when I right click the panel
[23:41] <lordofthepigs> the only thing I have is "You can configure the arrangement of the panel here"
[23:41] <DaSkreech> earl_: I think it assumes the background for the panel it was added to So you have to change the background of the parent panel
[23:41] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: open kcontrol and configure the panel, it's there in kcontrol
[23:43] <ardchoille> !info kdeextras
[23:43] <ubotu> Package kdeextras does not exist in gutsy
[23:43] <ardchoille> !info kdeadmin
[23:43] <ubotu> kdeadmin: system administration tools from the official KDE release. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:3.5.8-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 17 kB, installed size 56 kB
[23:43] <lordofthepigs> ardchoille: ok, found it
[23:43] <bascule> !info kde-extras
[23:43] <ubotu> kde-extras: extra applications for use with KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 5:53 (gutsy), package size 9 kB, installed size 40 kB
[23:44] <bascule> !info kdeartwork
[23:44] <ubotu> kdeartwork: themes, styles and more from the official KDE release. In component main, is optional. Version 4:3.5.8-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 10 kB, installed size 48 kB
[23:44] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: Cool
[23:45] <earl_> daskreech: that's all well and good, but then when i integrate it into awn, it goes back to not being transparent... oh well.
[23:45] <lordofthepigs> hmm.... strange that it doesn't work correctly through the context menu though...
[23:45] <z> Hello, can anyone help with a Amarok daap issue in kde?
[23:46] <lordofthepigs> blendtux, you can install it with adept, the package name is "d4x"
[23:48] <z> Hello, can anyone help with a Amarok daap issue in kde?
[23:51] <thomas_> can someone help me with html
[23:51] <Gulars> thomas_, sure
[23:51] <Gulars> :)
[23:51] <DaSkreech> !html
[23:51] <ubotu> html is HyperText Markup Language, used to build web pages.  Editors in Ubuntu: Bluefish, Quanta+, Screem, and KompoZer(Nvu).  For howto on HTML coding, see: http://www.w3schools.com/
[23:52] <thomas_> k thx. i have a table and 4 pictures and i want them to all shrink so they can fit on the screen in the table. How do I do it? So far the pictures slide to the right so i have to scroll
[23:52] <DaSkreech> #html
[23:52] <RLoggia> xevious: can you help me with something plz?
[23:52] <thomas_> DaSkreech: nooone is responding in html :(
[23:52] <thomas_> DaSkreech: tried that already
[23:52] <webvictim> you need to give the images height and width constaints
[23:52] <webvictim> *constraints
[23:53] <RLoggia> anyone running an ATi graphics card?
[23:53] <lordofthepigs> is it possible to get hard drive temperature sensors into ksysguard?
[23:53] <Gulars> a better way would be to use digikam or something similar to resize the images to the desired size
[23:53] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: I never found a way to do that. But, ksensors can do it easily
[23:53] <thomas_> webvictim: i tried doing so with height=100% and so
[23:54] <lordofthepigs> ardchoille: does ksensors have a panel applet?
[23:54] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs: It basically is a panel applet, it's nice, try it.
[23:54] <Gulars> thomas_, height="250" width="400"
[23:54] <webvictim> indeed
[23:54] <Gulars> for instance
[23:54] <RLoggia> i need a link for a good command line walkthrough on how to get the ATI driver for my graphics card....can anyone help me with that?
[23:54] <webvictim> use pixel values
[23:54] <thomas_> webvictim: all that happens though is 3 pictures are big and the other one is tiiiny. Is there a way i can make the table shrink ALL the pictures to fit?
[23:54] <Gulars> but then you lose aspect ratio and will have crappy browser based downscaling
[23:55] <lordofthepigs> ardchoille: Ok, I'm on it
[23:55] <webvictim> the table won't scale them itself
[23:55] <webvictim> it's up to you to specify the sizes
[23:55] <webvictim> http://www.dim-sum.org/~crab/bah.png
[23:55] <webvictim> oh, rats.
[23:55] <webvictim> wrong channel.
[23:55] <Gulars> I guess it could be done with dom and js, but that's a bit out of the scope I guess :p
[23:55] <RLoggia> nobody else using ATI lol? i must be retarded lmao
[23:56] <webvictim> not really a laughing matter :P
[23:56] <nigonpie> alguien habla español?
[23:56] <ardchoille> lordofthepigs:  When you click the panel applet, it will show a blank window until you add sensors, don't be alarmed.
[23:56] <ardchoille> !es | nigonpie
[23:56] <ubotu> nigonpie: Si busca ayuda en Español por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, allí obtendrá mas ayuda.
[23:56] <DrX> how do i fix "failed to mount cd:///?devices=/dev/sdb" ???
[23:56] <thomas_> Gulars: well that sucks and i find its weird, that you can't make the picture fit to the size of the cell or table
[23:58] <DaSkreech> !ati | RLoggia
[23:58] <ubotu> RLoggia: To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[23:58] <RLoggia> ubotu: ty
[23:58] <ubotu> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
[23:58] <RLoggia> deskreech: lol
[23:59] <DaSkreech> !tab  | RLoggia
[23:59] <ubotu> RLoggia: You can use <tab> for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
[23:59] <RLoggia> DaSkreech: lol whats up?
[23:59] <Gulars> thomas_, that's just how html works, but you can resize the pictures from the command line using "convert -sample 380x440 input.jpg output.jpg"


[10:58] <tsdgeos> Saviq: evil tag back?
[10:58] <tsdgeos> 0.1.16               ?
[10:58] <Saviq> tsdgeos, where!:?
[10:58] <tsdgeos> trunk
[10:58] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ah, just one? :D
[10:58] <Saviq> wth
[10:59] <tsdgeos> yep
[10:59] <Saviq> probably one removal failed...
[11:00] <Saviq> tsdgeos, `bzr tag --delete 0.1.16`
[11:00] <tsdgeos> done
[11:00] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I did that on trunk and will verify that branches don't have it on next landing
[11:00] <Saviq> heh, in that case I'll drop the other ? one, too
[11:01] <Saviq> tsdgeos, bzr tag --delete 7.85+14.10.20140428.2-0ubuntu1
[11:01] <Saviq> bzr tag --delete 0.1.16
[11:01] <Saviq> @unity ↑
[11:01] <Saviq> on both local and remote branches please (I'll keep a look-out)
[11:06] <tsdgeos> Saviq: easy one! https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/remove_empty_dirs/+merge/219168 :D
[11:13] <Saviq> paulliu, sorry, but video playback isn't a good thing to enable now, we need it to be out-of-process to not bring down the shell with it
[11:14] <Saviq> paulliu, maybe once we extract the dash to be an app (which will happen soon)
[11:15] <tsdgeos> hmmmm
[11:15] <tsdgeos> anyone can see what we need iconutils.* in unity8/tests/mocks/Unity
[11:15] <tsdgeos> ?
[11:15] <tsdgeos> s/what/why
[11:21] <Cimi> Saviq, having a script in autolanding is obviously not doable?
[11:21] <Cimi> for removing tags
[11:21] <Saviq> Cimi, no
[11:21] <Saviq> Cimi, we just have to get through this
[11:21] <Saviq> Cimi, and we'll be tag-free after that
[11:22] <Cimi> Saviq, no problem
[11:22] <Cimi> anyway
[11:22] <Saviq> Cimi, and anyway it's important that people do it locally
[11:22] <Cimi> having hard times with utopic nowq
[11:22] <Cimi> packages don't build in sbuild
[11:22] <Saviq> Cimi, otherwise we'd just have to keep the script running forever
[11:22] <Saviq> Cimi, what package?
[11:26] <Cimi> Saviq, lightdm
[11:26] <Cimi> Saviq, and I have no clue how to do testing here...
[11:26] <Cimi> Saviq, and robert works when I sleep...
[11:26] <Saviq> Cimi, you mean cross-build or just standard?
[11:26] <Cimi> Saviq, cross build for the phone
[11:27] <Cimi> Saviq, I need to see if it works with infographics
[11:27] <Cimi> https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/lightdm/uid-bindings/+merge/218958
[11:28] <Cimi> Saviq, you know in bzr how do I revert local branch changes to a file and use trunk>
[11:28] <Cimi> ?
[11:28] <Cimi> apart from copying
[11:28] <Saviq> Cimi, you mean after you committed some changes to it?
[11:28] <Cimi> Saviq, apparently I committed some changes
[11:28] <Cimi> don't ask me why
[11:29] <Cimi> it must be some debian patches that were applied with dpkg-buildpackage
[11:29] <Cimi> and then when I committed it pushed
[11:29] <Cimi> I didn't expect
[11:29] <Saviq> I
[11:30] <Saviq> Cimi, I'd probably uncommit, shelve, commit again
[11:30] <Cimi> I am copying files
[11:30] <Cimi> yeah makes sense
[11:30] <Cimi> so you can shelve what you want
[11:30] <Saviq> Cimi, or uncommit, shelve, uncommit, shelve, etc.
[11:30] <Cimi> good point
[11:30] <Saviq> Cimi, use qshelve
[11:30] <Cimi> thanks
[11:30] <Saviq> Cimi, it's rather nice (not as good as git add -p where you can edit individual hunks, but good enough)
[11:34] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: is Q_DECLARE_METATYPE(std::shared_ptr<unity::scopes::Result>) used? i can't find any unity::scopes::Result :S
[11:35] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, i'm sorry, it's mhr3's baby, i dunno
[11:37] <tsdgeos> oki
[11:37] <Cimi> seb128, can you help me with lightdm packaging?
[11:38] <seb128> Cimi, sure
[11:38] <Cimi> seb128, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cimi/lightdm/uid-bindings/view/head:/debian/control
[11:38] <Cimi> seb128, jenkins doesn't build on utopic
[11:38] <Cimi> https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/lightdm/uid-bindings/+merge/218958/comments/522707
[11:39] <Cimi> apparently due to missing dh-systemd
[11:39] <Cimi> which is not installed by apt-get build-dep lightdm
[11:39] <Cimi> but I can see it in the control file...
[11:41] <seb128> Cimi, that seems like a jenkins issue, check with fginther?
[11:43] <Cimi> also cannot build in sbuild
[11:44] <Cimi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7451962/
[11:44] <Cimi> I have trusty with armhf sbuild chroot utopic
[11:46] <seb128> Cimi, that seems another issue
[11:46] <Cimi> yeah
[12:02] <paulliu> Saviq: ok. I'm reading all the blueprints and will get more stuff for myself.
[12:03] <Saviq> xnox, could you please have a look at bug #1318627 when have a moment
[12:04] <Saviq> Cimi, ↑
[12:04] <Cimi> thanks Saviq !
[12:05] <Cimi> Saviq, I guess I will work on the UI using my local patch for unity8
[12:05] <Cimi> Saviq, then I'll integrate better later on when I finish the work on lightdm (when it will build and I could write tests)
[12:05] <Cimi> ok for you?
[12:15] <Saviq> Cimi, sure
[13:17] <luv> hey there. I have to say it's quite crazy to have this bug in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/964270 for about two years. (It's the bug then after a reboot compiz forgets custom keyboard shorts (resets gsettings for org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings)
[13:17] <luv> i was really suprised it's still in in 14.04 :-(
[13:17] <luv> though i dont mind fixing it myself - seems like a silly mistake (... or almost impossible to track down race condition ;-) )
[13:18] <luv> (there is also https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1063617 and quite a lot of dupes )
[13:19] <luv> just wondering if i submit a patch will it get accepted to 14.04 branch, because I dont really fancy maintaing a "fork" with the patch in for years
[13:20] <luv> though what i dont really understand is why compiz resets these gsettings at all in the first place!
[13:20] <luv> (also i can easily reproduce running "unity" or "compiz --replace" in an existing session)
[14:04] <Cimi> Saviq, new bug for the download progress https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-38944
[14:05] <Cimi> Saviq, kgunn also this is really important for phone delivery, we need to distropatch qt if upstream won't fix in time https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-35608
[14:13] <tsdgeos> mterry: there?
[14:13] <mterry> tsdgeos, hello!
[14:14] <tsdgeos> mterry: you filed a bug about dash tests not passing?
[14:14] <mterry> tsdgeos, yeah, I commented on bug with what you wanted.  What are the "ii" packages?
[14:14] <tsdgeos> installed
[14:15] <tsdgeos> mterry: that is weird, ok, i'll have a look later
[14:15] <mterry> Oh, that's not as exciting as I hoped  ;)
[14:15] <mterry> tsdgeos, they pass for you?
[14:15] <tsdgeos> they did last week and nothing seems to have changed
[14:15] <mterry> huh
[14:15] <tsdgeos> i was hoping you had some weird sdk packages or something
[14:16] <tsdgeos> i had them at some point
[14:16] <tsdgeos> and they were breaking stuff
[14:16] <mterry> tsdgeos, gotcha
[14:16] <mterry> tsdgeos, also if you could find time to give the split branch another lookover.  I think I'm done with expected changes
[14:17] <tsdgeos> mterry: ok, will try this afternoon or tomorrow morning
[14:37] <dandrader> greyback, what's that "short app ids" story?
[14:38] <greyback> dandrader: shortappId = appId less the version string
[14:39] <dandrader> hmm
[14:39] <greyback> dandrader: the version string causes problems when the app is updated (and the version string changes) - then the desktop file changes too
[14:40] <greyback> dandrader: there's a bug mzanetti is trying to fix using these short appIds
[14:40] <mzanetti> dandrader: yeah... causes issues in some places... e.g. launcher items get stale when the app is upgraded
[14:40] <greyback> dandrader: bug 1239750
[14:41] <mzanetti> because so far an appId contains the version number too. => upgrading an app changes the ID => different app
[14:41] <dandrader> yeah, I see
[14:46] <luv> so no interest in fixing the bugs with losing keyboards shortcuts??
[15:02] <tsdgeos> damn, override does not take into account the return type?
[15:02] <tsdgeos> wait it actually does :D
[15:18] <karni> hey guys! I got a question. Is there a scope, that makes use of/shows off journal, vertical journal or organic-gric? I seem not to be able to make anything resembling a layout out of my scopes while trying out these layouts, perhaps I'm doing something wrong. The grid and carousel work just fine, but I've never seen {vertical-}journal or organic-gric work outside of our unity8 tests. Any hints?
[15:18] <davidcalle> karni, "not implemented"
[15:19] <karni> davidcalle: oh!!
[15:20] <karni> I gathered they were already in, I see.. Saviq, any ETA on any of the journals or organic grid being fully implemented?
[15:20] <tsdgeos> karni: you were implementing them, remember? :D
[15:21] <karni> tsdgeos: I was attempting to implement one, but because I had trouble fully understanding the code base, I went on to fix other bugs. Yes, I do remember.
[15:21] <tsdgeos> karni: that's as far as we got
[15:21] <tsdgeos> karni: afaik noone is working on it nor is planned for *immediate* work
[15:22] <karni> tsdgeos: I see. Is this on the roadmap anytime soon? We'll be showing off custom scopes to customers pretty soon (and more and more of them)
[15:22] <tsdgeos> but "shouldn't be that hard" (TM)
[15:22] <karni> tsdgeos: noted, thanks
[15:22] <tsdgeos> karni: anyway you want to talk to Saviq tomorrow when he's back
[15:22] <karni> tsdgeos: so you say ;D I've been there ;)
[15:22] <karni> okay
[15:24] <Cimi> tsdgeos, ping
[15:24] <tsdgeos> Cimi: yes?
[15:24] <Cimi> tsdgeos, so I am adding a png shadow to carousel
[15:25] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I need to hack your js to add a property
[15:25] <tsdgeos> ok
[15:25] <Cimi> tsdgeos, basically, we want to set artShape's border to none
[15:25] <Cimi> of the ubuntushape
[15:25] <Cimi> when I am in a carousel
[15:26] <Cimi> tsdgeos, now in function cardString
[15:26] <Cimi> neither template or components are telling me it's a carousel or a grid
[15:26] <tsdgeos> ?
[15:26] <tsdgeos> thye do
[15:26] <tsdgeos> no?
[15:26] <Cimi> tsdgeos, not really
[15:27] <Cimi> tsdgeos, in cardTool is categoryLayout that describes the type
[15:27] <tsdgeos> template["category-layout"] ?
[15:27] <Cimi> tsdgeos, this says carousel
[15:27] <Cimi> tsdgeos, but carousel dinamically changes to grid with few items
[15:28] <tsdgeos> right
[15:28] <Cimi> tsdgeos, look at cardTool
[15:28] <tsdgeos> Cimi: pass categoryLayout down then
[15:29] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I was wondering if this would have triggered more creations
[15:29] <Cimi> tsdgeos, due to bindings and changes to those files
[15:30] <tsdgeos> Cimi: meeting, back in a little
[15:30] <Cimi> ok
[15:37] <mvo> hi, hope this is the right channel to ask some questions about u8/mir on utopic/desktop. it seems that sigond is not running and when I manually try to run it it crashes. is that a known issue? it seems like I can install clicks because of that
[15:40] <tsdgeos> Cimi: back now
[15:40] <Cimi> cool
[15:40] <tsdgeos> Cimi: what would have triggered more creations?
[15:40] <Cimi> tsdgeos, property var cardComponent: CardCreatorCache.getCardComponent(cardTool.template, cardTool.components);
[15:41] <Cimi> tsdgeos, if we add a third argument
[15:41] <Cimi> tsdgeos, wouldn't this cardComponent call CardCreatorCache.getCardComponent when the third changes as well?
[15:41] <tsdgeos> correct
[15:41] <tsdgeos> but cardtool categoryLayout "shouldn't happen much"
[15:41] <tsdgeos> no?
[15:42] <tsdgeos> s/happen/change
[15:42] <tsdgeos> s/much/at all
[15:42] <tsdgeos> no?
[15:42] <Cimi> nope
[15:42] <Cimi> only when is less than element on screen
[15:42] <tsdgeos> Cimi: otoh you can add the property all the time too
[15:42] <Cimi> for carousel
[15:42] <Cimi> ok
[15:42] <Cimi> let's add
[15:42] <tsdgeos> a property alias "should not be a big problem"
[15:43] <tsdgeos> more over when you only set it to a value from the carousel
[15:44] <seb128> bregma, hey, maybe you know about mvo's question/can point to somebody who knows? (signond not running in the unity8-mir desktop session, leading to non working click scope it seems)
[15:45] <bregma> mvo, should that be "seems like I can't install clicks because of that"?
[15:46] <mvo> bregma: it is the last thing that the logs tell me at least
[15:49] <bregma> I know there was an issue with transitive application launches because of the new Touch security model, but that shouldn't affect the signon stack any more, because we worked around services started over D-Bus
[15:50] <mvo> my utopic is fresh, all updates from today are in
[15:50]  * mvo builds signond to see if he can see anything that looks suspicious
[15:50] <seb128> you might want to try to catch mardy
[15:50] <seb128> but it might be late in the day for him
[15:51] <bregma> but installing click packages on the desktop was not supported last time I checked, because it conflicted with apt or something, so you just can't install through the click scope
[15:52] <mvo> bregma: I'm trying to find out the current state of this
[15:54] <Cimi> tsdgeos, cimi@draco:~/Development/unity8/carousel-shadow$ ./run
[15:54] <Cimi> bash: ./run: No such file or directory
[15:54] <Cimi> tsdgeos, thinking of you :D
[15:54] <tsdgeos> yeah :/
[15:55] <bregma> mvo, it is known to not work, it hasn't been investigated in depth yet (evidently you're doing that), but if you could open a bug against the unity8-desktop-session project so we can track the work that would be real swell
[15:56] <mvo> bregma: sure, happy to do that, but I will wait until I can write more than "itz not working", i.e. if I have a little more idea about where we stand, hopefully by tomorrow
[15:58] <mvo> silly(?) question, but is there I way to start my normal terminal in the u8/mir desktop session? or something equivalent to DISPLAY=:0 gnome-terminal from vt1 that will open it inside mir?
[16:03] <bregma> mvo gnome support is not yet available on Mir, but the terminal app works
[16:03] <bregma> me, I use ssh to get a useful command line
[16:28] <mvo> bregma: thanks, it seems like the terminal is currently only available for armhf, I will see if I can build it myself (or maybe I just look at the wrong place for the click?)
[16:30] <bregma> it's in the core apps, you can install the debs instead of the click to get bootstrapped
[16:31] <bregma> ppa:ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/daily
[16:40] <karni> Anyone knows where's the /usr/share/unity-scopes/api/Runtime.ini on Utopic?
[16:49] <Cimi> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/unity8/carousel-shadow/+merge/219233
[21:19] <Cimi> Saviq, my lightdm branch got merged, if we can build an armhf package would be great
[21:21] <Saviq> Cimi, did it not build in CI or sthg?
[21:21] <Saviq> kgunn, you just commented on https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1JAwVBnzaVD5Fk9NV2humb33GaqTEqG-xt1QFll_CxpM/edit - but see the title :D
[21:21] <Cimi> Saviq, nope
[21:22] <Cimi> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/lightdm/uid-bindings/+merge/218958
[21:23] <Saviq> then until it cross-builds, no other way but to build natively on device
[21:23] <Cimi> ack
[21:23] <Cimi> Saviq, dobranoc
[21:23]  * Cimi -> afk
[21:23] <kgunn> Saviq: sorry dude...not sure how i ended up there
[21:24] <Saviq> Cimi, take care
[21:24] <Saviq> kgunn, no worries, just loled when saw the title :)
[23:00] <Cimi> Saviq, robert just added tests for lightdm so we're good to go
[23:00] <Cimi> I'll do infographics tomorrow then