[05:48] <crimsun> so, Dove X0 should be good to go WRT default audio settings. I've uploaded both alsa-utils and pulseaudio for that.
[09:50] <lool> Someone tried the openoffice binary packages?
[09:50] <lool> Would be nice to confirm the fix and close this awful bug  :-)
[09:58] <ogra> lool, did you see my question from yesterday ?
[09:59] <ogra> (why dont we cat the partition/mbr files together butu do complex math and an additional image instead ?)
[09:59] <ogra> *but
[10:02] <lool> ogra: You mean why don't we release the individual bits?
[10:02] <lool> instead of an SD card image?
[10:02] <lool> or why don't we have blobs in the debian-cd/cdimage trees?
[10:02] <ogra> no, in our debian-cd scripts we create an empty image, add an mbr, do complex math to dd the contents into it etc
[10:03] <ogra> dd if=/dev/zero of=mbr.img bs=1 count=512
[10:03] <ogra> parted -s mbr.img mklabel msdos
[10:03] <ogra> cat $IMAGE >>mbr.img
[10:03] <ogra> etc etc
[10:03] <ogra> why dont we do it like that instead and use the filesizes for the values we need
[10:03] <ogra> way less complex
[10:04] <lool> ogra: Because you don't know which size your partition is actually going to have
[10:05] <ogra> i.e. append each partition image we create to the full image and "mv mbr.img resulting.img" in the end
[10:05] <lool> We need to create partitions before we know for sure which size they'll have
[10:05] <ogra> sure i do, at least if i can use byte values like parted does
[10:05] <ogra> well, cat'ing definately works here
[10:05] <lool> You can specify a partition size in bytes, but its size wont be the one you passed...
[10:06] <ogra> hmm
[10:07] <ogra> you mean because of block sizes ?
[10:07] <ogra> vs byte size
[10:07] <lool> No
[10:08] <lool> sector size, and in your case you have additional constraints due to chs addressing
[10:08] <ogra> yes, i wasnt talking about my current case though ... just in general
[10:08] <lool> (we have other constraints in other cases, for instance the FIS needs to have a size which is a multiple of the flash block size 0x2000 IIRC)
[10:09] <lool> ogra: I don't think there's any easy case
[10:09] <ogra> right, we could still fill up the images with ueros though
[10:09] <ogra> *zeros
[10:09] <ogra> and then glue them together
[10:09] <lool> ogra: which is what we do by dd-ing them in place
[10:09] <ogra> though it doesnt make it easier ...
[10:10] <ogra> right, the constraints somehow make my point moot :)
[10:10] <ogra> i'm wondering why i dont see any probs with that here though
[10:10] <lool> Also, tools like parted or other disk utilities don't like creating partitions which go beyond the device boundaries
[10:10] <ogra> but probably because i dont read to the end of the partition
[10:10] <lool> so we'd have to create the partitions with the data in place already anyway
[10:11] <lool> It's just becaue your current file sizes happen to work and you're not trying to write at the end of partitions
[10:11] <ogra> right
[10:11] <ogra> thanks for clearifying
[10:12] <lool> I think the current approach is proven solid, even if it's a bit complex; I went through great length to put a bunch of sanity checks in place which prevent us from doing anything nasty, and I think it's the right way to do it
[10:12] <ogra> sadly its only solid on the build server, as soon as i run it locally i get size probs
[10:12] <lool> However you'll have to be creative because parted doesn't seem to allow enforcing the chs geometry
[10:12] <ogra> i'm not sure why
[10:12] <ogra> well, sfdisk does allow it
[10:13] <ogra> so i'll likely resort to fdisk or sfdisk
[10:13] <lool> I would prefer if we'd keep their usage minimal though
[10:13] <ogra> or worst care just rely on u-boot being in NAND ...
[10:14] <ogra> *case
[10:14] <lool> for many reasons: the checks are currently written using parted which is the canonical tool for partitioning which we use in other circunstances, I would prefer if we kept the number of tools to a minimum, and this puts higher constraints on the image building host and developer machines building images
[10:14] <ogra> sure, but partwed doesnt give mee the functionallity i need
[10:14] <ogra> i need something that works ... *now*
[10:15] <ogra> so my options are small
[10:17] <lool> I know, but for instance you could just create one partition with fdisk and use parted for the rest
[10:17] <lool> that would allow keeping the same logic everywhere else
[10:17] <lool> Such as partition size checks
[10:17] <lool> Cause parted can actually read the partition table just fine, just not create it
[10:18] <lool> Or you could just dd the partition info just like we dd the partition type for redboot fis (non-fs data)
[10:18] <ogra> indeed
[10:18] <ogra> i didnt plan to use fdisk all over the place :)
[10:32] <ogra> ha !
[10:32] <ogra> that worked
[10:33] <ogra> heh, intresting, the SD i dd the image to boots fine, but my x86 machine cant mount the SD anymore
[11:39] <hrw> morning
[11:52] <lool> morning
[13:41] <amitk> ogra: yes, two reasons why you won't see anything on the display on omap - I'm still merging the DSS2 stack from 2.6.34-rc2 back into our tree and the drivers are modules.
[13:41] <ogra> ah, sad
[13:41] <ogra> i was hoping to have a live image ready for next week
[13:41] <ogra> i also see that compcache only assigns 60M
[13:42] <ogra> i think we should raise that
[13:42] <amitk> ogra: try the kernel on people.canonical.com:~/amitk/ti/zImage
[13:43] <ogra> does that have the modules builtin ?
[13:43] <amitk> ogra: yes, its the first compile after porting the dss2 stack back and compiled-in
[13:43] <amitk> 51 patches
[13:44]  * ogra downloads
[13:44] <ogra> i hope the modules in initramfs will still work
[13:46] <amitk> ogra: no guarantees, I can start compile for a temp debian package if this improves things
[13:46] <ogra> [   35.326751] FAT: codepage cp437 not found
[13:46] <ogra> [   36.601043] FAT: codepage cp437 not found
[13:46] <ogra> over and over
[13:47] <ogra> and nothing on screen
[13:47] <amitk> *sigh*
[13:48] <amitk> I'll compile a debian package
[13:48] <amitk> ogra: or perhaps you could try w/o the initramfs
[13:48] <ogra> well, it should show any output before it goes to initramfs
[13:49] <ogra> but the screen just shuts down
[13:49] <amitk> so *something* in the DSS2 stack is working :)
[13:50] <ogra> mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /cdrom failed: Invalid argument
[13:50] <ogra> modprobe: FATAL: Could not load [   67.495635] FAT: codepage cp437 not found
[13:50] <ogra> /lib/modules/2.6.33/modules.dep: No such file or directory
[13:50] <ogra> well, it behaves like with the archive kernel
[13:51] <amitk> ogra: that could be missing udebs
[13:52] <ogra> on a live image ?
[13:52] <amitk> hmm, no
[13:53] <ogra> its missing modules that are in your build but not in the casper initramfs from the archive kernel
[13:58] <lool> ogra: Do you have an initramfs with nls_cp437.ko in it?
[13:59] <lool> ogra: It might be worth checking whether we put any codepage in the kernel for kernels which are used with FAT images
[13:59] <ogra> lool, apparently not
[13:59] <ogra> well, i do, but amitk's kernel looks for a different modules dir
[13:59] <amitk> ogra: new 500.3 debs on people
[14:00] <ogra> hmm, thanks though it will be tricky to build a livefs with them
[14:01] <amitk> ogra: this is a problem with the casper initramfs, right?
[14:02] <ogra> well, it would also be with any other initramfs
[14:02] <ogra> /lib/modules/2.6.33/modules.dep: No such file or directory
[14:02] <ogra> (initramfs) ls /lib/modules/
[14:02] <ogra> 2.6.33-500-omap
[14:36] <ogra> amitk, :(
[14:36] <ogra> amitk, http://paste.ubuntu.com/401821/
[14:39] <ogra> amitk, doesnt look good
[14:43] <amitk> ogra: archive kernel?
[14:53] <ogra> amitk, nope
[14:53] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~amitk/ti/linux-image-2.6.33-500-omap_2.6.33-500.3_armel.deb
[14:54] <ogra> do you have unionfs in that package ?
[14:55] <amitk> ogra: yes
[14:55]  * ogra tries that instead
[14:55] <ogra> urgh
[14:56] <ogra> casper dropped unionfs support
[14:56] <ogra> only unionfs-fuse is supported
[14:56]  * ogra curses
[14:56] <amitk> we're trouble for M :)
[14:56] <amitk> in trouble
[14:56] <ogra> oh, no, i just didnt see it
[14:56] <ogra> its there
[14:57] <ogra> i thought aufs was about to go upstream
[14:58] <amitk> ogra: aufs was rejected from upstream a year ago
[14:58] <amitk> forever
[14:58] <amitk> upstream is working on a union mount solution, but it isn't ready yet
[15:02] <ogra> ah, still
[15:02] <ogra> i thought that was dropped in favour of including aufs
[15:03] <ogra> mount: mounting unionfs on /root failed: No such device
[15:03] <ogra> unionfs mount failed
[15:03] <ogra> (initramfs) cat /proc/modules |grep union
[15:03] <ogra> (initramfs)
[15:03] <ogra> hmm
[15:03] <amitk> 2.6.33 has now changed API so that aufs doesn't even compile w/o a hack
[15:04] <ogra> i dont have a unionfs module :/
[15:04] <ogra> (initramfs) ls /lib/modules/2.6.33-500-omap/kernel/fs/
[15:04] <ogra> configfs    nls         squashfs    nfs_common  reiserfs    exportfs
[15:04] <ogra> nfs         lockd       udf         jfs         isofs       xfs
[15:04]  * ogra checks the chroot he rolled the initrd in
[15:05] <ogra> nope
[15:05] <ogra> hmm, shouldnt that be in the ubuntu subdir ? seems the whole dir is missing
[15:06] <ogra> ah, no, its there
[15:06] <ogra> but only compcache in it
[15:06] <amitk> ogra: sigh, sorry, I forgot to add that commit in this kernel
[15:06] <amitk> it is on another branch of my git tree
[15:07] <ogra> ah
[15:09] <amitk> ogra: so what happens with the archive kernel?
[15:09] <amitk> wrt aufs
[15:09] <ogra> hrm, i didnt have a squashfs ready when i tried it last, one sec, i'll test again
[15:14] <ogra> amitk, same breakage
[15:15] <asac> bug 417009
[15:15] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 417009 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 4 other projects) "all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic (affects: 1)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417009
[15:15] <asac> bug 537356
[15:15] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 537356 in webservice-office-zoho (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "application menu entries dont do anything (affects: 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537356
[15:15] <amitk> ogra: ok, i'll look at the oops
[15:15] <amitk> ogra: could you file the bug please?
[15:17] <ogra> hrm, the serial console behaves very weird with the archive kernel
[15:18] <amitk> ogra: freezes?
[15:19] <ogra> yeah
[15:19] <ogra> i get the busybox shell but cant type anything
[15:19] <amitk> ogra: huh, never saw that
[15:20] <ogra> and it looks like that http://paste.ubuntu.com/401839/
[15:20] <ogra> looks like it adds tabs on the go
[15:20] <amitk> I don't see that
[15:21] <amitk> do you have any HW/SW flow control enabled in minicom?
[15:21] <amitk> if so, disable it
[15:21] <ogra> no, and it works fine with your kernel
[15:22] <amitk> no changes in my kernel except new DSS2 patches
[15:22] <ogra> strange
[15:31] <abdalla_> asac: Hello, Are you there?
[15:32] <ogra> amitk, well, different toolchain
[15:37] <amitk> ogra: huh?
[15:37] <ogra> yours is codesourcery
[15:46] <asac> bug 519897
[15:46] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 519897 in squid (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "[armel] squid FTBFS: cf_gen Segmentation fault (affects: 1)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519897
[15:46] <asac> abdalla_: busy atm. ping me in 1h+
[15:47] <asac> sorry.
[15:47] <ogra> asac, i think i'll not MIR x-loader and u-boot for now, if we can assume they are preinstalled in NAND and build out images accordingly they can stay in universe for now
[15:48] <ogra> s/out/our/
[15:51] <asac> bug 541399
[15:51] <asac> ogra: ok
[15:51] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 541399 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu) "netboot image fails to boot. (affects: 1)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541399
[15:52] <asac> bug 537356
[15:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 537356 in webservice-office-zoho (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "application menu entries dont do anything (affects: 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537356
[15:52] <asac> bug 537083
[15:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 537083 in linux-fsl-imx51 (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "Suspend no longer works after updating to 2.6.31-605.9 kernel (affects: 2)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537083
[15:53] <asac> bug 537356
[15:53] <ogra> asac, bug 457878 is actually fixed in git
[15:53] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 537356 in webservice-office-zoho (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "application menu entries dont do anything (affects: 2)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537356
[15:53] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 457878 in linux-fsl-imx51 (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "imx51 on board ethernet plug/unplug events not detected (affects: 2)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457878
[15:54] <ogra> (pending upload)
[15:54] <asac> bug 540477
[15:54] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 540477 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "X restarted, but no .crash file (dup-of: 540256)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540477
[15:54] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 540256 in upstart (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "enter kills X when booting Live CD or w/cryptsetup with plymouth text plugin (affects: 7) (dups: 3)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540256
[15:55] <asac> bug 515023
[15:55] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 515023 in linux (Ubuntu) "ATA pass-through commands preventing external HDD to be mounted (affects: 10) (dups: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515023
[15:55] <asac> bug 528524
[15:55] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 528524 in totem (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 5 other projects) "Sound not working in all apps on dove (affects: 3)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528524
[16:19] <ogra> asac, bug 548924
[16:19] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 548924 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "aufs broken in ti-omap kernel (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548924
[16:19] <ogra> amitk, want that assigned ?
[16:25] <amitk> ogra: yes please
[16:26] <ogra> done
[16:26] <ogra> amitk, is there a bug about the DSS2 open anywhere ?
[16:29] <amitk> ogra: no, it will go in w/o the bug
[16:30] <ogra> i guessed so, but asac wants something to track status
[18:11] <awolfson> lool, now it works withe the command line from wiki
[18:12] <awolfson> lool, with -hdb
[18:21] <Jeff91> howdy all, so I just obtained and htc tilt 8925 and I am interested in running ubuntu arm on it. suggestions on where I should start?
[18:24] <lool> awolfson: You can use -hda flag with any filename; are you saying that if you try with -hdb it works, and -hda it doesn't?
[18:43] <hrw> ogra: omap3 allows you to prepare sd card which will flash xloader and uboot into nand on board without them
[18:44] <hrw> thats how I got bug2.0 running from being not programmed at factory
[18:46] <awolfson> lool, It did not work for me first time. I will try again
[19:27] <awolfson> lool, I tried procedure for QEMU from wiki with hda again - it worked that time
[19:34] <prpplague> davidm: alive today?
[20:28] <lool> awolfson: Ok; just bad luck first time I guess
[23:31] <Martyn> I got in a tegra board today
[23:32] <Martyn> time from getting the board, to booting Karmic (then Lucid..)    1 hour
[23:32] <Martyn> can't wait to see the official nVidia installer
[23:34] <rcn-ee> cool Martyn, so what does nVidia give you with the kit?
[23:44] <Martyn> rcn-ee : Well, the tegra 250, 1Gb RAM (800MB available after video ram is allocated), WiFi, Bluetooth, 3 USB, 1 debug USB, a serial/debug breakout board, MMC slot, eMMC card slot, SIM card slot, two compact PCI-e (miniPCI) slots, VGA port, HDMI port...
[23:45] <Martyn> full SDK available, Windows 6.5 (and supposedly 7) images available, an android image based on android 2.2, and an empty promise to have an Ubuntu image for download
[23:45] <Martyn> (you hit the website and find there is no ubuntu image ready yet)
[23:46] <rcn-ee> those specs sound sweet.. they are probally waiting till closer to the release..  i was looking at their dev site, thinking it would be a nice addition to my arm farm..
[23:46] <Martyn> rcn-ee : Apply for one
[23:46] <Martyn> The dev boards are one per company, $400
[23:47] <Martyn> useful and quite powerful little thing .. 1Ghz dual core
[23:48] <rcn-ee> ouch, was hoping they'd be less... (my order for a touch book just went thru, so i'll have to wait a month or so)
[23:49] <Martyn> first they have to accept your app :)
[23:50] <rcn-ee> true...  and they might not particularly like the fact, I'll start benching them against 4 omap boards...
[23:51] <Martyn> c*nod*
[23:51] <Martyn> have you gotten the omap4430 eval board yet?
[23:51] <rcn-ee> i wish...  I've been bugging my TI contacts for the last 6 months for that board.. ;)
[23:53] <rcn-ee> i have one of the early XM proto's so as soon as i get my IGEPv2 installed into my gcc test farm, I'm going to see how far that goes.. (Single Core 800Mhz-1.2Ghz range)
[23:57] <Martyn> I got mine three weeks ago, and let me tell you .. the tegra2 runs rings around it
[23:59] <rcn-ee> i bet, dual core, 1Gb of memory and real pheripherals..


[11:56] <sayur> alo
[19:07] <tsimonq2> pleia2: I just wrote a nice blog post, any chance I can add it in UWN?
[19:15] <pleia2> tsimonq2: yep, all stuff written until EoD Sunday UTC is fine :)
[19:16] <tsimonq2> thanks pleia2 :)


[10:51] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[17:13] <ChinnoDog> nVidia drivers can be so frustrating.
[17:15] <ChinnoDog> All I want is to see the nVidia advanced settings but nvidia-settings refuses to show them to me.
[18:46] <ChinnoDog> omg. This issue is killing me. All I want is to use my 1920x1080 external monitor and it is like pulling teeth.
[18:48] <ChinnoDog> Ubuntu 19.10 doesn't support independent scaling of monitors out of box. I can enable the beta feature, but it doesn't work. I can try xrandr, but it still doesn't work. nVidia control panel refuses to show me hardware scaling settings, probably because I have a PRIME config and intel chip used for scaling. Scaling on intel is not implemented in Linux!
[18:49] <ChinnoDog> I tried setting hardware scaling using nvidia-settings, didn't work. I read Wayland handles this better. Why can't I select Wayland from login screen? Because it blacklists nVidia proprietary drivers. :-/
[18:58] <ChinnoDog> I switched to Wayland and omg it works! It is not as nice as having video port scaling but some apps will resize on the external monitor.


[21:48] <hrw> 3.11-rc2 works on chromebook ;)
[23:59] <mmenefee> hi all.  I've managed to compile a custom Raring kernel for the Nexus 7, but I'm a bit lost as to how to build and flash a new boot.img.  Can anyone point me to a good tutorial?  Think I understand the zImage part, but not how to build the new initrd.img...


[02:32] <tsimonq2> pleia2: are things going good with this?
[06:00] <PaulW2U_> pleia2: everything on prep .doc was deleted at 0341 UTC but now restored
[06:01] <PaulW2U_> a lot of summaries still need writing :(
[06:01] <wxl> PaulW2U_: ouch what happened??/
[06:02] <PaulW2U_> no idea. it's happened before. fortunately Google docs *remembers* things
[06:02] <wxl> yikes
[06:03] <wxl> i may be able to toss a couple in
[06:03] <wxl> exhausted tho :(
[06:04] <PaulW2U_> I can't, 6 am here and off to work in about 45 mins
[06:04] <wxl> 2200 over these parts
[06:05] <PaulW2U_> you definitely have some time then :)
[06:05] <wxl> heh some. but into the badlands is on :)
[09:07] <pleia2> PaulW2U_: thanks for restoring it, I've been gone all day and just got home now (it's after 1AM)
[09:08] <pleia2> wow, still need a bunch of summaries
[09:08] <pleia2> I'll have to work on this when I wake up
[09:14] <pleia2> I copied over the sections that are complete for now
[09:15] <pleia2> 11 more summaries to go
[09:15] <pleia2> glad we have revision control so at least these were restored, hooray for google docs
[09:15]  * pleia2 sleep &
[15:58] <pleia2> husband is sick, no one sleeping well over here
[16:04] <PaulW2U_> pleia2: 3 summaries done, sorry have to go back out shortly
[16:11] <pleia2> PaulW2U_: thank you for doing what you can, appreciated!
[18:56] <PaulW2U_> all summaries done except blogosphere
[18:56] <PaulW2U_> wiki page and prep doc reviewed :)
[18:56] <pleia2> PaulW2U_: thank you :)
[18:56] <pleia2> moving everything but blogosphere over now
[19:58] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue447
[19:58] <pleia2> all done :) sent to editors if they can squeeze in edits in the next 5 hours
[19:59] <wxl> sorry i didn't get more done last night :(
[20:04] <pleia2> wxl: thanks for what you did do :)
[20:10] <Unit193> Erm, yes.  That's good.
[20:14] <pleia2> Unit193: thanks!
[21:26] <PaulW2U_> editorial review done
[21:26] <pleia2> thanks again
[21:27] <PaulW2U_> next issue 4th Jan ?
[21:27] <pleia2> yeah, let's do that
[21:27] <pleia2> I don't do christmas, but I could use a break :)
[21:27] <pleia2> quiet holiday time is a nice excuse
[21:29] <PaulW2U_> I only do Christmas to the keep the rest of family happy :)
[23:22] <tsimonq2> heh
[23:22] <tsimonq2> pleia2: how's it going?
[23:22] <pleia2> tsimonq2: all good
[23:23] <tsimonq2> pleia2: how's the UWN? is it almost ready for release?
[23:24] <pleia2> tsimonq2: I told editors that I'd let it sit for review for 5 hours, that was 3.5 hours ago :)
[23:24] <tsimonq2> pleia2: ok, then you publish?
[23:24] <pleia2> so I'll publish in 1.5 hrs or so (whenever I wrap up work really)
[23:24] <tsimonq2> yay :)(
[23:24] <tsimonq2> *:)
[23:25] <tsimonq2> pleia2: so around 1:00 UTC?
[23:25] <pleia2> tsimonq2: yeah, assuming I untangle from work then
[23:25] <pleia2> that's what I'm aiming for anyway
[23:25] <tsimonq2> pleia2: need anything from me?
[23:26] <pleia2> tsimonq2: nope, it's all good, thanks :)
[23:26] <tsimonq2> ok, I will check back in 1.5 hours so I can forward on to the WI LoCo
[23:26] <tsimonq2> pleia2: ^


[14:57]  * skaet waves
[14:58]  * ogra_ shores
[14:58] <skaet> :)
[14:58]  * smartboyhw waves
[14:59] <popey> o/
[14:59] <seb128> hey
[14:59] <skaet> welcome... quormum is forming  :)
[15:00] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Sep 28 15:00:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[15:00] <highvoltage> o/
[15:00]  * stgraber waves
[15:00] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-09-28
[15:00] <skaet> .
[15:00] <skaet> Upcoming dates:
[15:00] <skaet> 12.10
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/10/04: Kernel Freeze and Desktop Infrastructure Freeze at 2100 UTC
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/10/09: Translation Deadline at 1030 UTC and Final Freeze at 2100 UTC
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/10/11 - Release Candidate, and Release Note Content Freeze
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/10/16 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze
[15:00] <skaet>     October 18 - 12.10 Release
[15:00] <skaet> .
[15:00] <skaet> Bugs:
[15:00] <skaet> Development teams are trying to fix: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:00] <skaet> To be considered for fixing: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[15:00] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Work Items:
[15:01] <skaet> 2012/09/21 -  2997 (was 2996  - 2012/09/21):   Thank you for the recent push to clean up the feature status.  :)
[15:01] <skaet> We are still behind the trendline for some of the projects.  Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks. If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Thanks to those who sent in status emails,  could you please paste the link here in the channel,  since there weren’t that many when I checked earlier this morning...
[15:01] <skaet> ..
[15:01] <skaet> #topic Comments and Questions
[15:02] <skaet> Thank you to the release team and QA team and flavor leads for everyone’s hard work on getting all the late features landed, and tested,  and out the door for Beta2.
[15:02] <skaet> Now entering the last window for bug fixing before we release 12.10.  Any questions on upcoming dates/schedule above?
[15:02] <ogra_> foundations status - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001962.html (ogra)
[15:03] <ogra_> err
[15:03] <smartboyhw> Ubuntu Studio: No:P
[15:03] <ogra_> sorry, old link
[15:03] <ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001986.html
[15:03] <skaet> thanks ogra_,  I'll add the links to the agenda from ubuntu-release as we get them in.
[15:03] <skaet> (or likely from the mail list ;) )
[15:04] <jbicha> \o
[15:04] <skaet> go jbicha
[15:04] <jbicha> .. (I was just waving)
[15:04] <skaet> welcome :)
[15:04] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:04] <seb128> jbicha, hey ;-)
[15:04] <skaet> any one else have their links handy or questions?
[15:05] <ogra_> o/
[15:05] <skaet> ogra_,  is it just new review blocking pam-xdg-support?
[15:05] <ogra_> skaet, as i understood it, yeah
[15:05] <seb128> it seems to have been NEW reviewed
[15:05] <doko> skaet, built now in q, needs a MIR
[15:05] <seb128> the binaries are installable
[15:06] <seb128> (I installed it here)
[15:06] <ogra_> doesnt the FFe serve as MIR too ?
[15:06]  * ogra_ thought the bits were on the bug
[15:06] <seb128> no, FFe don't do code reviews nor security reviews I think
[15:06] <skaet> jdstrand, mdeslaur - is there anything missing for pam-xdg-support?
[15:06] <doko> I don't think so
[15:06]  * xnox 0/
[15:07] <mdeslaur> skaet: did it get a MIR?
[15:07] <mdeslaur> skaet: unless one has already been performed, it should go through the MIR process and get a security audit
[15:08] <doko> mdeslaur, it looks fine for me, however I'd like to have the security team have a look
[15:08] <skaet> ogra_,  can you handle?
[15:08] <skaet> getting the MIR filed, so we can unblock this one?
[15:08] <ogra_> skaet, i'll poke slangasek ... but i thought there was MIR data in the FFe bu already
[15:08] <ogra_> *bug
[15:08] <skaet> mdeslaur, can you guys do a security review on it today?
[15:09] <jdstrand> I cannot
[15:09] <mdeslaur> skaet: what's the bug #?
[15:09] <jdstrand> I could do it monday
[15:09] <seb128> it's 300 lines of code
[15:09] <seb128> so shouldn't be too hard
[15:09] <jdstrand> well, it's pam. it's always hard
[15:09] <seb128> right, I was going to add a note about that ;-)
[15:09] <ogra_> bug 894391
[15:10] <skaet> jdstrand,  thanks.  if someone else can't get it through today,  would be good to do it as soon as possible on monday.   Want this landing before we go into desktop infrastructure freeze.
[15:10] <jdstrand> might I just add, once again, that late landing code like this is hard to deal with?
[15:10] <skaet> (if its ok to go in ;) )
[15:10] <skaet> jdstrand,  no argument from me.
[15:11] <ogra_> jdstrand, foundations is aware and is sorry ... and will buy you beer at UDS :)
[15:12] <jdstrand> heh, well, at least someone from the security team
[15:12] <skaet> :)
[15:12] <skaet> .. on this one I think.
[15:12] <ogra_> o/
[15:12] <skaet> any other urgent FFE's or bug fixes that need help left,  or have we pretty much quiesced?
[15:12] <skaet> go ogra
[15:13] <skaet> go ogra_
[15:13]  * skaet goofed up her auto complete
[15:13] <ogra_> popey, have the compiz bits (and its rdeps) been tested against arm this time (last abi bump i had to spend three days to fix them)
[15:13] <popey> ogra_, not yet, only landed in a ppa a couple of hours ago
[15:13] <ogra_> (though that was simply because the packagind had s/arm/foo/ across the board)
[15:14] <ogra_> popey, but they will ? or do i need to plan to keep time available for it ?
[15:14] <popey> hmm, my team has no arm hardware capable of testing compiz right now
[15:14] <popey> so help needed there
[15:14] <popey> ..
[15:15] <skaet> plars, balloons, ^ can you help popey
[15:15] <ogra_> but you at least do build tests (and take a look at the logs if GLES was enabled ?)
[15:15] <ogra_> popey, that would already help a lot ...
[15:16] <plars> I'm gone until tuesday of next week, but we may have someone else who can give it a try.  if we need to pull it from the ppa just shoot us a link and we can help take a look
[15:16] <ogra_> (last time the world was built for GL ... which is clearly visible in the logs for example)
[15:16] <popey> ogra_, ok, I'll add that to our testing.
[15:16] <popey> thanks!
[15:16] <ogra_> thx
[15:16] <popey> ..
[15:16] <ogra_> ..
[15:17] <skaet> before we move on,  just want to check that everyone is ok with the dates I pasted at the start of the meeting?
[15:17] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:17] <ogra_> thats all *next month* !
[15:17] <ogra_> so far away :)
[15:17] <skaet> we're pretty compressed time wise
[15:18] <skaet> popey,  seb128 are you going to be ok holding to the desktop infrastructure freeze next Thursday?  (happens with the kernel freeze)
[15:18] <skaet> ogasawara, is the kernel freeze on track?
[15:19] <seb128> skaet, should be fine
[15:19] <popey> yes
[15:19] <seb128> compiz updates is planned on monday
[15:19] <ogasawara> ogasawara: yep, planned for next week
[15:19] <seb128> and unity on wednesday
[15:19] <skaet> thanks seb128, popey, ogasawara
[15:19] <skaet> doko,  no other toolchain uploads to worry about?
[15:20] <doko> the only toolchain uploads I do worry about are glib2.0, gtk, and qt
[15:21] <seb128> glib and gtk got updated to the GNOME 3.6 stable version so no change expected for those
[15:22] <skaet> doko,  what's the issue with glib2.0?   I've seen several bug fixes go in for it recently, but not sure what's outstanding.
[15:23] <skaet> and what's left with qt?
[15:24] <doko> skaet, I see it's now built on arm after the fifth upload, so probably it's ok. however qt4-x11 didn't build yet on arm, and webkit fails. likely a launchpad issue, Laney is trying to work around it
[15:24] <skaet> doko,  thanks.  will keep eye open then for it.
[15:24] <Laney> ahoy
[15:24] <Laney> waiting for post-b2 skew to sort itself out so that I can test webkit locally
[15:25] <skaet> thanks Laney.
[15:26] <Laney> cautiously optimistic
[15:26] <Laney> providing someone toolchainy lets the make patch in
[15:27] <doko> Laney, could you at least forward this upstream?
[15:27] <doko> if it's not yet there ...
[15:28] <Laney> I think it was
[15:28] <Laney> I'll try to find the reference
[15:28] <Laney> it's certainly not applied though
[15:30] <skaet> ..?
[15:30] <Laney> doko: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-make/2009-07/msg00012.html is what I can come up with ATM
[15:30] <Laney> yes, we can discuss this elsewhere
[15:30] <Laney> sorry
[15:31] <skaet> no worries.   good to get it resolved.
[15:31] <skaet> seb128, popey - there are a couple of critical bugs on the tracking list.  At least one is stale (I recognize it, and will mark it fix released ;) )  Could you both take a pass at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html ? and make sure all the criticals either have a 12.10 date or quantal-updates beside them,  so we can make sure we're focusing on the right things for the next wee
[15:31] <skaet> k?
[15:31] <seb128> skaet, it's on my todo for today, sorry I got a behind this week catching up after holidays and with beta2
[15:32] <popey> thanks seb128
[15:32] <ogra_> they let you do holidays ?!?
[15:32] <skaet> ogra_,  if foundations could do the same,  it would help make sure we're all focusing on the important bigs,  since those lists are rather long.
[15:32] <ogra_> yup
[15:32] <seb128> ogra_, yeah, not sure what they were thinking :p
[15:33] <ogra_> :)
[15:33] <skaet> ogasawara,  and kernel team is the champ of the long list right now...  ;)
[15:33] <ogra_> yeah, we should go without kernels, they always have bugs :)
[15:33] <ogasawara> ogra_: +1 :)
[15:34] <Daviey> hurd++
[15:34] <ogasawara> skaet: I think that's due to the CVE's which we've discussed earlier
[15:34] <popey> That's it, I'm switching to GNU/Hurd!
[15:34] <ogra_> thats also a kernel
[15:34] <skaet> anyhow,  will be using that list exclusively for the next couple of weeks to make sure the important fixes land in 12.10 - so if you have bug fix that needs to land, but is not on that list,  please let me know and I'll help sort.
[15:35] <skaet> ogasawara, yeah,  that's it mostly,  but for the high/criticals - would be good to know what will land this week, and what's definitely SRU teritory
[15:35] <ogasawara> skaet: ack
[15:36] <skaet> Daviey,  arosales -  there's one critical that seems stalled, but is on the list - wanting to know if its really critical, and likely to land?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1026102
[15:37] <skaet> anyhow,  if we can have a nice crisp list by next Thursday,  would very much appreciate,  since there's only a couple of days after that until final freeze.
[15:38] <skaet> ....
[15:39]  * skaet will be continuing to ping out of band on these for the next week or two...
[15:40] <Daviey> skaet: looking
[15:40] <skaet> Riddell, ScottK, knome, stgraber, highvoltage, scott-work, gilir, ogra_, infinity - please review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseManifest and make sure all the last changes for your images are there.
[15:40] <skaet> in particular for gilir,  does lubuntu still want to carry alternate images?
[15:40] <Daviey> skaet: will follow u, thanks
[15:40] <stgraber> skaet: edubuntu looks good
[15:41] <gilir> skaet, yes
[15:41] <ogra_> arm looks fine too
[15:42] <skaet> thanks,  ok,  please sign the manifest in the "Target" column by entering the date.  :)
[15:43] <skaet> other topic...   for same audience ;)
[15:43] <skaet> Riddell, ScottK, knome, stgraber, highvoltage, scott-work, gilir, ogra_, infinity - could you please review the test cases on the iso tracker for your flavors/community ports - and make sure they are accurate for the mandatory/run once/optional?   For the release we will be aiming for 100% coverage.   Please work with balloons to adjust any testcases, if necessary, before October 4, 2012.
[15:43]  * smartboyhw thinks there will be edit conflict:P
[15:43]  * skaet is old hand at resolving edit conflicts,  don't worry.
[15:43] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:43] <ogra_> skaet, k
[15:43] <cjwatson> skaet: we're hammering rls-q-tracking pretty hard at the moment FWIW - it's down about 12 or so over the last two days
[15:43] <balloons> :-) yes, the mandatory/run-once/optional are important
[15:44] <skaet> cjwatson,  thank you.  :)
[15:45] <cjwatson> (and we have no actual critical-priority bugs there right now)
[15:45] <skaet> *\o/*
[15:45] <ScottK> o/
[15:46] <skaet> keep up the good work.   other teams,   feel free to be competitive in terms of getting most fixes in ;)
[15:46] <skaet> and all critical bugs off the list.
[15:46] <skaet> go ScottK
[15:46] <ScottK> I've started to be very skeptical of UIFe requests for things that are just tweaks/new functions.
[15:47] <ScottK> I think we should do that generally as people need to be focused on fixing stuff and not wouldn't it be nice if ...  ideas.
[15:47] <ScottK> I've also starting saying no to nice to have FFe's too.
[15:47] <ScottK> ..
[15:48] <skaet> ScottK,  agreed.   We're out of time for nice to haves.
[15:49] <skaet> yesterday's UIFe has a quote from Mark that makes that point as well,  I think.  from a UIFe perspective at least.
[15:50] <skaet> any one else have comment?  questions?
[15:50] <skaet> or are we pretty much at the end of the meeting now?
[15:50] <ScottK> Do we know where we are on the https change for shopping?
[15:51] <ScottK> That's more than slightly essential.
[15:51] <skaet> I thought I saw that Laney approved it already,  but haven't double checked it this morning.
[15:51] <skaet> seb128, ^ any update?
[15:52] <seb128> let me check
[15:52] <Laney> it's merged
[15:52] <Laney> we should probably cherry-pick it into the distro
[15:52] <skaet> please
[15:53] <seb128> there is an update planned for next week
[15:53] <seb128> do you prefer than to go earlier?
[15:53] <Laney> definitely
[15:53] <seb128> e.g to try to land it today?
[15:53] <Laney> is the server ready?
[15:54] <skaet> if we can pull the pieces together.  more time we have to shake it down, better it will be.
[15:54] <seb128> Laney, server is ready
[15:54] <Laney> OK, I'll upload it shortly then
[15:54] <seb128> skaet, Laney: I will have a go at backporting it today
[15:54] <Laney> oh
[15:54] <Laney> even better :P
[15:54] <seb128> Laney, or do you want to do it?
[15:54] <skaet> Thanks seb128 !  :)
[15:54] <Laney> no preference
[15:54] <seb128> yw
[15:56] <skaet> ..
[15:56] <ScottK> The only other thing that I thought was really essential was the online search privacy change and I approved that yesterday and I see bits of it are landing.
[15:56] <skaet> #endmeeting
[15:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Sep 28 15:56:23 2012 UTC.
[15:56] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-28-15.00.moin.txt
[15:56] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-28-15.00.html
[15:56] <skaet> ooops
[15:56] <ogra_> thanks skaet
[15:56] <skaet> sorry ScottK
[15:56] <ScottK> No problem.
[15:56] <ogra_> heh
[15:56] <ScottK> It was a statement, not a question.
[15:56]  * ogra_ has to hurry out anway
[15:58] <mdeslaur> thanks skaet
[15:58] <skaet> Thanks seb128, Daviey, ogra_, ogasawara, plars, popey, Laney, cjwatson, smartboyhw, gilir, stgraber, Daviey, doko, jdstrand, mdeslaur, jbicha
[15:58] <skaet> have a good weekend.
[15:58] <seb128> skaet, thenks
[15:58] <seb128> thanks
[15:58] <stgraber> skaet: thanks
[15:58] <popey> thank you!
[20:29] <Ross123> dave?
[20:30] <bowser4> DGizzle


[01:29] <tobias_> hi everyone, i'd need some help with selecting the relevant logs for a bug report. System cannot boot into graphical UI after distupgrade. I think it has to do with: Sep 28 18:09:21 edubuntu gnome-session[2074]: WARNING: Session 'ubuntu' runnable check failed: Exited with code 1
[01:29] <tobias_> Sep 28 18:09:21 edubuntu gnome-session[2074]: WARNING: Unable to find default provider 'unity-2d-panel' of required provider 'panel'
[01:29] <tobias_> Sep 28 18:09:21 edubuntu gnome-session[2074]: WARNING: Unable to find default provider 'unity-2d-shell' of required provider 'shell'"
[01:30] <tobias_> help would be appreciated! :)
[21:19] <Logan_> Can somebody please make Bug 1055807 public?
[21:22] <jtaylor> done
[21:23] <Logan_> jtaylor: Thanks, as always. :)
[22:33] <rickero1> Hello everybody, I'm translating the package ubuntu-manual into french. I encounter some mistakes in the English version. Do anybody have an Idea where to fill a bug for it? The manual is here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[22:33] <Logan_> I have a question about bug triaging. I understand that Debian marks all bugs as "Fix Released" in version +rm when a package is removed from Debian. What is the appropriate triaging procedure for bugs in packages in Ubuntu that were deleted from the latest development version?
[22:34] <Logan_> rickero1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+filebug (most likely)
[22:35] <rickero1> Logan_: So simple? I cannot believe it :-)
[22:36] <Logan_> rickero1: Yup. :)
[22:37] <rickero1> Logan_: thanks... will try / have a good evening or night
[22:37] <Logan_> You too, thanks!
[22:37] <Logan_> jtaylor: Any input on my question above?
[22:38] <Logan_> Or hggdh, maybe?
[22:39] <penguin42> hmm I don't see a canned message in Bugs/Responses about that
[22:46] <Logan_> I know. :(
[22:46] <Logan_> I mean, I guess packages can still qualify for an SRU even if they don't exist in the development version...
[22:46] <Logan_> It's an interesting issue.
[22:49] <penguin42> Logan_: I'd assume it'll get auto-closed eventually when no supported versions exist any more, I'd certainly add a note saying it's been deleted out of the latest one, but I don't know what the right thing to do if you wanted to change the status was
[22:50] <Logan_> They don't get closed automatically on Launchpad, though.
[22:50] <Logan_> Only on Debian's bts.
[22:50] <penguin42> Logan_: I think stuff does get closed if it's been reported on version x and x  goes out of support?
[22:51] <penguin42> I can't remember what exactly the behaviour was but I'm sure I've seen it in the past
[22:51] <Logan_> I haven't witnessed that on Launchpad. I've seen bugs for packages that don't have anything in repositories anymore, and they're still marked as New.
[22:53]  * penguin42 has been reporting bugs for a long time
[23:47] <hggdh> the bugs are still maintained open on all supported releases


[01:08] <dholbach> 22:00 UTC?
[01:10] <dholbach> fabbione: when did it get re-scheduled?
[08:41] <avdyk> hi
[10:57] <mako> greetings all
[10:57] <dholbach> hey mako
[10:57] <Kamion> yo
[10:57] <fabbione> yo
[10:57] <Phython> G'day
[10:57] <dholbach> hey everyone else :-)
[10:58] <mdke> hi all
[10:58] <avdyk> hi all
[10:58] <amu> moin
[10:59] <ogra> yay mako
[10:59] <ogra> amu, moin ?
[10:59] <ogra> *g*
[10:59] <jbailey> moin. =)
[10:59] <T-Bone> moo
[10:59] <ogra> meeh
[10:59] <mako> wow.. this place just came alive :)
[10:59] <mako> yeah..
[10:59] <Kamion> will we have elmo and sabdfl?
[10:59] <amu> ogra: hehe, it's a also short for g'morning *eg*
[10:59] <jbailey> Kamion: Don't they hunt quails in your part of the world?
[11:00] <mako> unclear.. i know the elmo forgot the moved time
[11:00] <jbailey> mako: The agenda had it wrong as of this morning, anyway.
[11:00] <mako> crap
[11:00] <dholbach> mako: it was set today at 12:00
[11:00] <mako> jbailey: really.. i must have gone 6 hours in the wrong direction :-/
[11:00] <mako> but yeah.. anywya
[11:00] <mako> i set it in the channel last time though
[11:00] <mako> correctly
[11:01] <dholbach> and we said "motumeeting will be after CC meeting", so we'll have big fun ... all sleeping away :-)
[11:01] <fabbione> mako: topic was changed and NOT restored
[11:01] <dholbach> set it on   wiki/Calendar   :-)
[11:01] <mdz> I don't think sabdfl will be here
[11:01] <mdz> mako: elmo noticed the moved time earlier today
[11:01] <mako> well, we decided to move on a rotating schedule last time.. we've got folks all around the world we're asking to come meet with us during these meetings
[11:02] <mako> so, fabbione suggested trying a shifting time through one or two cycles
[11:02] <dholbach> good idea
[11:02] <mako> which people gave the nod to last time.. that was befre they were asked to get up at 4am :)
[11:02] <dholbach> if everyone knows ;-)
[11:02] <mako> alright.. so we won't have sabdfl
[11:02] <mako> mdz: should i bother to sms?
[11:02] <Kamion> right, I'm not looking forward to the next one ... but it's the night before release candidate so I'll be awake anyway
[11:02] <mako> Kamion: heh :)
[11:03] <fabbione> Kamion: and all the others with you :)
[11:03] <mako> the one after that one is going to be the one taht kills me
[11:03] <mako> well, the next one is semi-alright for me :)
[11:03] <mako> but it goes downhill quickly after that
[11:03] <Kamion> s/release candidates/release/
[11:03] <fabbione> as you can all see.. we can share the pain :)
[11:03] <mdz> mako: can't hurt
[11:03] <mdz> mako: unless you get him in trouble ;-)
[11:03] <mako> ok.. let me sms sabdfl and then we'll move ahead
[11:04] <tseng> oh, its that time again
[11:06] <mako> alright then
[11:06] <mako> smurfix: you around?
[11:07] <mako> alright.. lets move ahead
[11:07] <mako> agenda is at: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[11:07] <mako> smurfix should head things off if he's around
[11:07] <mako> are there any loco folks here?
[11:08] <ogra> i think abelli dropped his team lead
[11:08] <mako> Timo we talked too.. gotta remove him from the list
[11:08] <mako> ogra: yes, i was very involved in that discussion :-/
[11:08] <mako> mdke: cool.. lets come back to that towward the end ..
[11:08] <ogra> oh, ok...i only saw the last parts with jdub
[11:08] <mdke> yep
[11:08] <mako> mdke: since it's s special issue, not introducing a new loco leader
[11:09] <mdke> cool ty
[11:09] <mako> JooCruz?
[11:09] <mako> LogiotatidisGiorgos?
[11:09] <smurfix> here
[11:09] <mako> smurfix: hola!
[11:09] <smurfix> sorry for being late, got lost in my tax forms :-/
[11:10] <mako> smurfix: any comments on the loco teams leaders on the agenda?
[11:10] <smurfix> mako: one moment
[11:11] <mako> DarthFrog: nice nick :)
[11:11] <DarthFrog> mako: Thanks. :-)
[11:11] <mako> mdke:
[11:11] <mako> mdke: false alarm
[11:11] <mdke> lol
[11:12] <mako> DarthFrog: we're going over proposed local community leaders
[11:12] <DarthFrog> mako: Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
[11:12] <tseng> heh.
[11:12] <ogra> lol
[11:13] <smurfix> No problem with any of them
[11:13] <mako> smurfix: have you been in contact with all of them?
[11:13] <mdz> except that they aren't here ;-)
[11:13] <mako> ultimately, it's up to smurf.. but we should definitely tell them to drop in and talk the council
[11:13] <mdz> Simira is travelling, I believe
[11:13] <mako> to let us know how things are going in their loco, etc
[11:13] <smurfix> mako: Yep (though not specifically WRT the CC meeting). Also checked the *Team pages
[11:14] <mako> sounds perfect
[11:14] <mako> i've talked to a number of them as well
[11:14] <mdke> canada are starting a pretty well organised team
[11:14] <smurfix> People should know to show up here, it's on the howto page
[11:14] <mdke> they're not on the agenda i noticed
[11:14] <ogra> mdke, next time then
[11:14] <mdke> i'll let em know
[11:14] <mako> great then
[11:15] <mako> i guess we can move on
[11:15] <mako> member candidates
[11:15] <avdyk> talkin' to me?!
[11:15] <mako> we looked at a few of these last night
[11:15] <mako> avdyk: yes! :)
[11:15] <mako> sorry.. last time
[11:15] <mako> avdyk: alright, you're first up
[11:15] <avdyk> yep... but I was not here :(
[11:16] <mako> cool.. well i thin kthe problem last time was that we didn't think the page really spoke for itself
[11:16] <ogra> mako, and Q-Funk wanted to talk to you about his wiki page... did he ?
[11:16] <mdz> mako: MatthewWeaver was already approved last time, was he not?
[11:16] <mako> ogra: definitely
[11:16] <Kamion> didn't we ok avdyk last time round?
[11:16] <jbailey> Kamion: No, you wanted people who weren't present to come to the CC meetin.g
[11:16] <mako> no, we didn't
[11:17] <mako> at least it's not in my notes
[11:17] <mako> avdyk: want to give us the summaery of your work in ubuntu so far?
[11:17] <mako> For The Record :)
[11:17] <avdyk> I didn't do nothing at the moment, I was contacted to make some java synchronisation between debian and ubuntu if I recall
[11:17] <Kamion> jbailey: ah yes, although it wasn't me who said that in Arnaud's case
[11:18] <Kamion> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-03-08.html)
[11:19] <mako> avdyk: ok.. the policy here is usually to hold off on membership until we've seen substantial contributions
[11:19] <avdyk> mako: I understand that
[11:20] <mako> avdyk: so the java sync stuff sounds killer.. are you working with the motu folks on that?
[11:20] <mako> avdyk: when you think you've got a bit of stuff. try to get a few exisiting members to vouche for you and point to your stuff and it should be uncontroversial :)
[11:20] <avdyk> mako: I'm just trying to have a working kaffe in debian on all arches at the moment :-D
[11:21] <mako> avdyk: awesome :)
[11:21] <avdyk> I also work a lot moving java packages to main (in debian)
[11:21] <mdz> avdyk: jbailey and wasabi are both working on java in Ubuntu
[11:21] <Kamion> jbailey: have you been working with avdyk?
[11:21] <Kamion> or intending to, anyway
[11:22] <jbailey> Kamion: YEs.  Avdyk is the Debian maintainer of most of the Java packages.
[11:22] <jbailey> Kamion: He, Wasabi, man-di and I work in #ubuntu-java on the packages.
[11:22] <jbailey> The idea is to keep sync as much as possible.
[11:23] <mako> avdyk: it sounds like once you get a little more active directly in the ubuntu community, this will be pretty easy :)
[11:23] <ogra> sounds like a reasonable contribution
[11:23] <avdyk> I don't have a lot of time at the moment so I concentrate on kaffe, moving java packages to main and the next step will be to package tomcat5
[11:23] <jbailey> Often the work is discussion around the best way to do things to make sure the packages stay in sync.
[11:23] <avdyk> mako: no problem
[11:23] <mako> alright then..
[11:24] <avdyk> I want you to know that I don't wanna have one more email address! ;-)
[11:24] <avdyk> I'm fine with submitting patches first, then we can discuss of a collaboration
[11:24] <mako> avdyk: sounds great
[11:24] <avdyk> ;-)
[11:24] <mako> avdyk: you think i'm joking? :)
[11:25] <mako> MartinEricRacine ?
[11:25] <ogra> mako, Q-Funk's page seems not to have changed
[11:25] <avdyk> mako: don't know this FQDN ;-)
[11:25] <mako> yes.. :)
[11:25] <ogra> mako, iirc you wanted it a bit more detailed
[11:25] <mako> we talked a bit but i guess he didn't get around to making the changes
[11:25] <mako> ogra: yes
[11:26] <ogra> he didnt do any MOTU work yet either...despite asking questions...
[11:26] <mako> since it doesn't appear to have changed and since he's not here. i'm hesistant to defer another week
[11:26] <mako> alight
[11:26] <Kamion> may as well postpone, doesn't do any harm
[11:26] <mako> not hesitant, that's what i want to do
[11:26] <mako> alright.. hopefully he can talk to me more in the next few weeks
[11:27] <ogra> mako, i pointed him to you several times
[11:27] <Kamion> any contact with Hiweed since last meeting?
[11:27] <mako> no.. IIRC i sent him a mail
[11:27] <mako> haven't heard back
[11:27] <elmo> mako: you have this cute wetware bug where you keep saying the exact opposite of what you mean ;)
[11:27] <ogra> heh
[11:28] <mako> elmo: man.. i know.. luckily it's mostly limited to irc
[11:28] <mako> alright then.. lets move on then
[11:28] <tseng> i seem to recall a hiweed working on a chinese dirivative
[11:29] <tseng> but he doesnt work inside ubuntu yet, afaik
[11:29] <Kamion> Matthew Weaver was already approved as a member last week; until he shows up and wants MOTU, I move that we drop him from the agenda
[11:29] <tseng> only saw him pop up on irc once
[11:29] <mako> yes, absolutely
[11:29] <mako> jorge is doing motu stuff now, right?
[11:29] <ogra> koke !
[11:29] <koke> pong
[11:30] <mako> koke: oi :)
[11:30] <ogra> yeah, and pretty good MOTU stuff :)
[11:30] <Kamion> agenda updated
[11:30] <tseng> jorge was tooling around with beagle, other than that i dont know of anything
[11:30] <dholbach> he rocks!
[11:30] <mako> koke: btw: nice wiki page
[11:30] <tseng> koke++
[11:30] <koke> tseng: that's other jorge
[11:30] <Kamion> who is responsible for updating UbuntuMembers?
[11:30] <Kamion> it hasn't been updated since forever
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: mako, of course ;-)
[11:30] <tseng> oh you are jorge?
[11:30] <Kamion> and we keep losing track
[11:30] <mako> *shit*
[11:30] <tseng> nm then :)
[11:30] <mako> well.. i have a text file i'll port over to the wiki
[11:31] <Kamion> mako: thanks, that would be good
[11:31] <ogra> Kamion, sivang once said he would take the task
[11:31] <mako> handling membership and signed CoCs has been a bit of a PITA recently
[11:31] <mako> elmo and i worked out a system yesterday
[11:31] <mdz> mako: oh, good
[11:31] <Kamion> it's currently kept in order of joining
[11:31] <mako> that involves a gpg signed file
[11:31] <mako> that i keep up to date
[11:31] <Kamion> ogra: I think it probably needs to be a CC member
[11:31] <mako> i'm happy to just put that in my webspace on rookery
[11:31] <mako> and have that be the canonical(!) location
[11:32] <ogra> so what about koke ?
[11:32] <ogra> yeah
[11:32] <dholbach> YEAH!
[11:32] <mako> Kamion, elmo: ?
[11:32] <tseng> koke++ (again)
[11:32] <Kamion> one sec
[11:32] <elmo> err, one sec for me too
[11:32] <ogra> he helped a LOT in the several transitions
[11:33] <mako> no problem
[11:33] <mdz> koke seems to have been busy
[11:33] <Kamion> oh yeah, I remember him now, koke++
[11:33] <ogra> 16 sponsored uploads
[11:33] <mvo> koke++ too
[11:33] <Kamion> (for member)
[11:33] <mako> Kamion: right
[11:33] <elmo> koke member++
[11:33] <dholbach> koke: 16 already?
[11:33] <mako> koke: congrats dude
[11:34] <koke> 16? age?
[11:34] <mako> welcome on board :)
[11:34] <koke> thanks all! :D
[11:34] <dholbach> koke: sponsored uploads ;-)
[11:34] <mdz> koke: congratulations
[11:34] <ogra> dholbach, thats what my search in hoary-changes says
[11:34] <ogra> yeah, koke congrats !!
[11:34] <mako> JamesAMorrison ?
[11:34] <dholbach> koke: thanks for working with us :-)
[11:34] <Phython> mako: Me
[11:34] <mako> cool
[11:34] <mako> i recieved a signed coc from you today i think
[11:35] <Phython> mako: I sent it yesterday
[11:35] <Phython> You got my key sorted out?
[11:35] <koke> dholbach: I count 14 in my repos
[11:35] <Kamion> Phython: there's not much on your wiki page about stuff done for Ubuntu?
[11:35] <mako> perhaps not yet, but that can wait actually
[11:35] <Kamion> although I know your name from Debian
[11:35] <dholbach> koke: ah... i remember the first one... and again... and again ;-)
[11:35] <koke> mako: I think I sent you about a month ago, can you confirm, please?
[11:36] <Phython> Kamion: no there isn't.  About the most I've done is tried to help pitti understand why drepper was threatening to haunt him
[11:36] <Kamion> heh
[11:36] <mako> koke: yeah dude.. confirmed :)
[11:36] <tseng> mixed up in the glibc cabal eh
[11:36] <Phython> Kamion: I tried doing the release assistant stuff a couple years ago, but couldn't keep up.
[11:36] <tseng> they'll cut you
[11:36] <mako> koke: i think i sent you an email at the time
[11:36] <elmo> The Drepper hits!  The Phython deflects the blow!
[11:36] <Kamion> yeah, I remember (and know the feeling nowadays ...)
[11:37] <Phython> tseng: I've only sent a couple mails towards glibc, most ended quickly
[11:37] <ajmitch__> Phython: more of a gcc hacker then?
[11:37] <pitti> Phython: btw, I now replied with a detailled spec and better explanation, let's see what happens :-)
[11:37] <Phython> ajmitch__: yes
[11:38] <tseng> Phython: good to have you on board, just sounds like not enough of us are familiar with you yet to make judgement call
[11:38] <dholbach> Phython: you wrote retchmail?
[11:38] <tseng> unless someone else steps in :)
[11:38] <Phython> dholbach: No, I maintained it in debian until sfllaw took over the packages
[11:38] <Phython> then things went back by the looks of the bts
[11:38] <mako> retchmail?!
[11:39] <Phython> dholbach: That's on my list of things to do today
[11:39] <dholbach> woohoo
[11:39] <dholbach> and wvstreams4 in ubuntu ;-)
[11:39] <ajmitch__> tseng: enough of us know him though :)
[11:39] <Phython> unforunatly I just noticed treelang is busted if you need to use GC
[11:39] <tseng> ajmitch__: oh, good
[11:39] <mako> i agree with tseng on this
[11:39] <Phython> ogra: That's when I showed up
[11:40] <ogra> yep
[11:40] <mako> Phython: want to come back in two weeks with a few uploads under your belt?
[11:40] <ogra> i got eagleyes
[11:40] <ogra> ;)
[11:40] <Phython> ogra: Oh, I found someone with gstreamer0.8-faad packages, I need to look at those now
[11:40] <Phython> mako: Sounds like a plan
[11:40] <ogra> great
[11:40] <mako> killer
[11:40] <tseng> yay
[11:40] <mako> moving on then...
[11:40] <mako> MichaelKoch
[11:40] <man-di> mako: thats me
[11:40] <mako> man-di: right
[11:40] <mako> java stuff, eh? :)
[11:41] <jbailey> mako: Same case as avdyk - We all do Java stuff. =)
[11:41] <mdz> man-di: you work on kaffe upstream, right?
[11:41] <man-di> mako: same case as avdyk I asssume
[11:41] <Kamion> ah, another Java cabal member :)
[11:41] <mdz> java in breezy is going to rock ;-)
[11:41] <Phython> jbailey: Did you push everyone into this meeting?
[11:41] <man-di> mdz: I help them with the classlib, orginally I work on GNU classpath upstream
[11:41] <man-di> mdz: and I'm part of GCJ team
[11:42] <jbailey> Phython: I had apparently misunderstood that the work that avdyk and man-di were doing in helping get the java bits together so far would be enough.  My bad.
[11:42] <man-di> currently I try top package newer Eclispe
[11:42] <Kamion> jbailey: I'm sure it could be if it were clear :-)
[11:42] <man-di> damn typos
[11:42] <man-di> currently I try to package newer Eclipse
[11:42] <Kamion> jbailey: it's just not particularly clearly mentioned anywhere, given that the CC members are not people who know about Java
[11:43] <Kamion> walk us through it slowly :)
[11:43] <mdz> jbailey: I think you're the only one here who has worked with them, so we are dependent on you to tell us what they are up to and how they are doing
[11:43] <avdyk> man-di: you  also move some java packages from contrib to main
[11:43] <jbailey> Kamion: Right.  I'm going to work out getting the channel logged, so that we I can at least point to things concretely.
[11:43] <man-di> we want to use joined forces for Java with Ubuntu and Debian
[11:43] <mako> man-di: awesome :)
[11:43] <avdyk> free java!
[11:44] <jbailey> Basically avdyk and man-di are the main movers behind free Java in Debian.  They're working with us so that we can reasonably keep sync between the two distros.
[11:44] <Kamion> jbailey: I'm happy to take your word for it, but just above avdyk himself said he hadn't done much :)
[11:44] <man-di> mako: currently Fedora leads in free Java (in my eyes)
[11:44] <man-di> Ubuntu and Debian together can perhaps change this
[11:44] <jbailey> Kamion: Right, that's why I find myself wishing for channel logs. =)
[11:44] <man-di> we try to create plans and implements to make all work smooth together
[11:44] <mdz> jbailey: what's involved on the Ubuntu side of keeping in sync?
[11:45] <jbailey> mdz: Right now we have a focussed goal on the Ubuntu side of using ecj and gij.  After that we're moving pieces from multiverse into universe similar to the Debian transition of the JAva bits to main.
[11:45] <mako> wow.. sounds great
[11:45] <jbailey> alot of the Debian effort gets held up because of the NEW queue processing time.
[11:45] <mako> i'm very excited about free java
[11:46] <man-di> mako: thx
[11:46] <jbailey> So as we're getting ahead of Debian in a couple areas, we're working on making sure that most of what we do can be fed into Debian sanely to make sync'ing easier.
[11:46] <mako> great
[11:46] <man-di> mako: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
[11:47] <mdz> jbailey: I guess what I'm asking is, what are/will the candidates be doing on the Ubuntu side of things to help with that (as opposed to the Debian side)
[11:48] <mako> mdz: it sounds like all of the work will be done for ubuntu first
[11:48] <mako> mdz: or much of at least
[11:48] <ogra> mako, but hangs in debians NEW queue ?
[11:48] <man-di> mdz: the Ubuntu has a little bit different goals as they are set now, we can help synchronizing packages and targeting the Ubuntu goals
[11:48] <man-di> mdz: e.g. Ubuntu targets on GCJ
[11:48] <jbailey> mdz: Right now, it's been alot of guidance and discussion around the apckaging and resolving problems.  Much of the work may wind up in Ubuntu first because of the faster upload cycle.  Ongoing, if it works out, there will be the group of us actively caring about Ubuntu in Java, although they may primarily care about Debian.
[11:48] <man-di> mdz: DEbian cant
[11:49] <mako> man-di: why not?
[11:49] <mako> (we should probably try to cut this a little short, as it's probably OT for a CC meeting)
[11:49] <mdz> are we consisdering universe maintainer status, or only membership?
[11:49] <tseng> :P
[11:49] <mdz> that should probably be indicated clearly on the agenda in the future
[11:49] <Kamion> I think it's still worthwhile
[11:49] <ogra> membershop
[11:49] <jbailey> membership.
[11:49] <man-di> mako: e.g. because the needed version is not in Debian yet and Debian wants diversity, Ubuntu wants a clean solution for the user
[11:49] <ogra> ship even
[11:50] <jbailey> If it makes sense for them to do full MOTU, that's something we can work out later.
[11:50] <mdz> oh, ok
[11:50] <azeem> Debian NEW is being processed again, so I don't think that's a big issue
[11:50] <mako> jbailey: yeah, we can bring that up with the motu team and any of the folks on the TB/CC
[11:50] <jbailey> mako: Right.
[11:50] <Kamion> ok, that's a good deal more than we'd heard previously; I'm willing to amend the earlier "wait and see" on avdyk if others agree
[11:51] <jbailey> Kamion: Sorry about that.  I need to figure out the best way to make sure these are presented well.
[11:51] <mako> yeah.. i think we should handle man-di and avdyk similarly here
[11:51] <mdz> if membership is the target, then jbailey's testimonial that they are actively contributing counts for a great deal
[11:51] <mako> jbailey: the best way is to make sure the wiki page has a claer list of the thing that the person has done
[11:51] <mako> alright then
[11:51] <mako> elmo: any objections to deciding on avdyk and man-di based on jbailey's testimony?
[11:52] <elmo> nope
[11:52] <mako> cool
[11:52] <mako> i'm happy with both on jbailey's word and the java stuff that has been done
[11:52] <mako> but i'd like to see more fleshed out wiki pages in the future :)
[11:53] <ogra> and a irc nick on the page would be awesome ;)
[11:53] <man-di> ogra: sorry
[11:53] <ogra> for every wiki page
[11:53] <mdz> a first-hand testimonial is more useful than a verbose wiki page, in my opinion
[11:53] <Kamion> ok then, avdyk and man-di both approved as member, that's the last of the new members
[11:53] <ogra> man-di, not only yours, i'm stumbling across that very often
[11:54] <Kamion> mdz: right, but having the latter means they're less likely to be deferred before we get round to hearing the testimonial :-)
[11:54] <ogra> man-di, its just not specified anywhere ;)
[11:54] <tseng> i think we should make sivangreen the official "template"
[11:54] <mako> ogra: seriously
[11:54] <tseng> for motu hopefuls
[11:55] <mako> tseng: totally, i'll do it
[11:55] <tseng> mako: cool, thanks!
[11:55] <ogra> tseng, hey thats actually a nice name
[11:55] <ogra> tseng, better then wannabes
[11:55] <tseng> yeah.
[11:55] <Kamion> ok. "Ubuntu website remake" is a leftover from last meeting, isn't it?
[11:55] <ogra> lets keep it
[11:55] <mako> Kamion: um.. it's been added and removed :)
[11:56] <mako> people *are* still brining it u
[11:56] <mako> up
[11:56] <mako> but yes
[11:56] <Kamion> well, it's still an open issue, but it's being acted on isn't it?
[11:56] <mako> but yes
[11:56] <mdz> Henrik is tracking that project
[11:56] <Kamion> so nothing for the CC to do
[11:56] <mdz> it's high priority
[11:56] <mako> mdz: absolutely
[11:56] <Kamion> Vika is working on it too
[11:56] <mako> alright..
[11:57] <mako> any kubunut news/items?
[11:57] <mako> kubuntu
[11:57] <mdz> Riddell: wasn't the preview announcement our "big announcement to the world"?
[11:57] <mako> Riddell: i think so :)
[11:57] <Kamion> that also looks like a leftover from last time
[11:57] <mdz> website seems more or less sorted, except for the registrar delay on kubuntu.org
[11:57] <mako> mdz: that was my comment
[11:57] <Kamion> as is LoCoTeam process
[11:57] <mako> is there anything the CC can do for kubuntu?
[11:57] <elmo> mdz: that's fixed
[11:57] <amu> not now, we're working on the last packages ...
[11:58] <mako> amu: sounds good
[11:58] <mdz> oh, so it is
[11:58] <mdz> elmo: excellent
[11:58] <mako> yeah.. loco team stuff
[11:58] <mako> ok.. so there was something of a mess with the italian team
[11:58] <mdz> indeed
[11:58] <mako> over the last 3 weeks probably
[11:58] <smurfix> actually it brew under the hood for longer
[11:58] <mako> basically, some people had some issues with leadership and communication and decisioning making within the team
[11:58] <mdz> abelli has been on #u-d nearly every day recently looking for sabdfl
[11:59] <mako> i can try to make it short
[11:59] <mdz> he doesn't seem to be here for the meeting, though?
[11:59] <mako> no.. he's largely disengaged
[11:59] <mako> so someone sent mail to info a few months ago complaining some issues with the loco team and the way it was working
[11:59] <mdke> he is not gonna get back involved i don't think
[11:59] <Kamion> I'd be interested in hearing from other Italian community folks; abelli has been by far the loudest, but loudest isn't always right :)
[11:59] <mako> but asked that nothing be done about it at the time
[12:00] <mako> things kind of simmered i supposed
[12:00] <mdke> i get on pretty well with him and have heard most of his complaints
[12:00] <Kamion> mdke: could you run us briefly through them? another angle would be good
[12:00] <mdke> hmm
[12:01] <mdke> he feels like he was cut out of the group by some people who conspired behind the scenes and went to mako
[12:01] <mdke> several other peopl left the team with him
[12:01] <mako> and he's upset at me for not telling me about the fact that people were upset with him
[12:01] <mdke> mako, yes although mainly with them
[12:01] <mako> andrea and i still exchange email almost daily
[12:01] <Kamion> from what I remember, the people who came to mako said that they had tried to talk to abelli and got nowhere?
[12:02] <smurfix> Unfortunately he then didn't want to meet on IRC with me+mako recently, and dropped his name from the team list
[12:02] <mako> Kamion: well, originally, they jsut said "some people are having problems with the team. don't say anything. we're just going to keep working"
[12:02] <mako> that was 3-4 months ago
[12:02] <mako> more recently, things came more to the surface
[12:03] <Kamion> also, um; were there substantive issues with things that were/weren't being done, or was it purely a "who's in charge" thing?
[12:03] <mako> Kamion: depends on who you ask
[12:03] <Kamion> or a who's telling whom what to do thing
[12:03] <mdke> Kamion, power struggle if i've understood it correctly
[12:03] <mako> basically, everybody involved said that other folks were not really doing any work and only wanted power
[12:03] <smurfix> Kamion: puls leadership style issues, plus ...
[12:03] <mako> which put smurfix and i in a pretty strange position
[12:04] <smurfix> as I said, we tried to get the two sides to talk in the same room, but ...
[12:04] <mako> a whole number of people said "this other person is trying to rule the group in a bad way and they're not doing any real work"


[00:14] <cjwatson> mitya57: git-build-recipe isn't that hard to hack on *hint* :-)
[00:15] <cjwatson> slightly oddly structured mainly just because it's an almost direct translation of bzr-builder
[00:16] <cjwatson> if it's what I think it is you can probably take the existing "assert not os.path.exists(target_subdir)" and also permit an empty directory
[00:16] <cjwatson> well, you might need to adjust a couple of things below that; add a case to the test suite
[07:20] <muktupavels> cjwatson, mitya57: can not git recipe do something like this - https://paste.ubuntu.com/23531161/? at least testing locally works.
[08:00] <muktupavels> cjwatson, mitya57: https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/git-build-recipe/+git/git-build-recipe/+merge/311797
[12:07] <cjwatson> muktupavels: I don't think there's much point; see my comment
[12:53] <t4nk629> sup
[13:15] <muktupavels> cjwatson: https://paste.ubuntu.com/23532210/
[13:16] <cjwatson> muktupavels: something along those lines should work, but it'll need changes in a couple of places - I strongly advise a TDD approach in this case, simulate the failure in the test case first
[21:24] <kyrofa> The new git mirroring functionality-- how often does it check for updates?
[21:34] <kyrofa> Ah, 5 hours, got it