[19:48] <mwhudson> Eickmeyer: do the livecd-rootfs builds for those projects set LIVEFS_PATH (or whatever the variable is called) in their initrds?
[19:51] <mwhudson> oh i have a theory here
[19:56] <mwhudson> Eickmeyer, vorlon: https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+merge/460365
[19:58] <Eickmeyer> mwhudson: Worth a shot. tsimonq2 ^ ?
[19:58] <Eickmeyer> (tsimonq2 is intimately familiar with livecd-rootfs)
[20:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reprozip [amd64] (noble-proposed) [1.3-2]
[20:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: kubuntu-installer-prompt (noble-proposed/primary) [24.04.1]
[20:37] <_doko> locutusofborg: you must not enable timet64 on i386
[20:37] <_doko> (llvm18)
[20:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: python-aiosmtpd (noble-proposed/primary) [1.4.4.post2-1]
[20:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-aiosmtpd [sync] (noble-proposed) [1.4.4.post2-1]
[20:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-aiosmtpd [amd64] (noble-proposed/none) [1.4.4.post2-1] (no packageset)
[21:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-aiosmtpd [amd64] (noble-proposed) [1.4.4.post2-1]
[21:47] <arraybolt3> ubuntu-archive: The new kubuntu-installer-prompt binary is another component of the Kubuntu installer transition to Calamares.
[21:51] <RikMills> arraybolt3: we ten to use kubuntu_realese_staging for new stuff git branches. so kubuntu_noble_staging for this
[21:51] <RikMills> not a big deal, but just fyi
[21:52] <arraybolt3> ah, thanks, will keep that in mind for next time
[21:52] <arraybolt3> if there's a document (or several) explaining the processes here, that would be great so I can review it and learn what to do.
[21:52] <RikMills> then when accepted you make a kubuntu_noble_archive branch
[21:54] <RikMills> arraybolt3: think it might be explained in: https://kubuntu-automation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
[21:55] <arraybolt3> awesome, I'll read through that before doing any further uploads or pushes.
[21:55] <arraybolt3> if there's something I can do to clean up the mistake I made here, I'm happy to.
[21:56] <RikMills> Kool. it is monir for now so don't stress
[21:57] <RikMills> *minor


[21:29] <_dennister> x_link, i echo flipstar's comment..don't do what I did and change a running system
[21:29] <x_link> Since it only uses 3.5GB =/
[21:29] <ScarFreewill> x_link, you'll get less support for various applications as well as packages if you use 64bit version
[21:29] <Arwen> 64-bit is faster until you have to load 32-bit libs for compatibility
[21:29] <BluesKaj> 64 bit is lacking with ATI hardware
[21:29] <_dennister> I just did and now i'm in here looking for help :(
[21:29] <x_link> _dennister: Did you just change to 64-bits?
[21:30] <_dennister> no, i've tried various times to go 64-bits...always sorry
[21:30] <x_link> _dennister: Okey, what didn't you like with it?
[21:30] <BluesKaj> _dennister:  that's been my experience too
[21:30] <x_link> I'm not trying to be negative or a pain in the ass with my questions. I just wanna know =)
[21:30] <x_link> So no hard feeling for my questions! =)
[21:30] <_dennister> the fact taht some apps won't work with it...like flash...sorry, but I love good rhetoric
[21:31] <_dennister> I'd miss listening to good presentations like michael geist, eben moglen...
[21:31] <_dennister> hey, BluesKaj long time no chat
[21:32] <BluesKaj> yeah _dennister , how you been ? :)
[21:32] <x_link> _dennister: Okey.
[21:32] <x_link> Just one last thing.
[21:32] <_dennister> u must be a real expert by now...it's been rough lately, BluesKaj , but I'm recovering now since i moved again
[21:32] <x_link> Now that I have 4GB RAM, but only 3.5GB works.
[21:32] <x_link> Then I my RAM isn't  working as Dual-Channel, right?
[21:33] <_dennister> and it'll be even better when i win my lawsuit against my old landlords...more hardware, here we come :)
[21:33] <x_link> _dennister: hehe
[21:33] <_dennister> but anyway, i need some help with kde4/kde3
[21:33] <flipstar> x_link: no..the problem is that a 32bit system can only adress 3.5gig ..so everything else cant be used
[21:33] <BluesKaj> _dennister:  far from 'expert " I'm afraid , aamof , i'm in particularly bad jam with this latest update that borked my setup :P
[21:34] <_dennister> yeah, i think my latest update this morning is what borked me up, too...what did u update?
[21:34] <x_link> flipstar: I know, but am I using Dual-Channel now or Singel-Channel?
[21:34] <BluesKaj> I tried kde4 , but it wasn't for me
[21:34] <x_link> BluesKaj: Not me either =/
[21:34] <x_link> BluesKaj: Just upgraded to KDE 3.5.9
[21:35] <BluesKaj> oww x_link
[21:35] <x_link> =)
[21:35] <x_link> But KDE 4.0 isn't done yet-
[21:35] <_dennister> well i can't get into kde3 now since my update of today...kde4 is the only way I can get logged in to the xserver
[21:35] <flipstar> x_link: you have to take a look at your motherboard for that
[21:35] <x_link> It will maybe look better in 3-6 months or so.
[21:35] <x_link> flipstar: Okey.
[21:35] <x_link> flipstar: I only have 4 memory-slots, and I have RAM-sticks in every one.
[21:35] <x_link> So it must be Dual-Channe..
[21:35] <x_link> Channel.
[21:36] <BluesKaj> _dennister:  it was yesterday , the word is that a language package upgrade is the offending item
[21:36] <x_link> But I thought since it only uses 3.5GB of those 4GB maybe it's not dual-channel right now.
[21:36] <flipstar> x_link: yep if your board support this, you have it :)
[21:36] <ScarFreewill> BluesKaj, how long do you think kde3 wil be available for kubuntu?
[21:36] <_dennister> BluesKaj, yep! that's it! i'd forgotten, thanks!
[21:36] <flipstar> ScarFreewill: at least until 8.10 :)
[21:37] <x_link> flipstar: okey, I will reboot now to see =)
[21:37] <ScarFreewill> lts right?
[21:37] <BluesKaj> ScarFreewill:  prolly another 6mos
[21:37] <_dennister> so perhaps I should purge the language pack? will that help me get back into kde3 and its apps?
[21:37] <mohi> hi, is it possible to connect two laptops with their wireless for internet and file sharing?
[21:38] <ScarFreewill> BluesKaj, but if its in the lts wouldn't it be available for a little longer?
[21:38] <BluesKaj> _dennister:  that's what I'm trying to do...I have absolutely no acces to either the login page or the tty on either generic or recovery :P
[21:38] <BluesKaj> ScarFreewill: if it's LTS yes
[21:39] <BluesKaj> <--running on live CD
[21:40] <ScarFreewill> ah got inet working for my kde appes
[21:40] <ScarFreewill> eth0 down
[21:40] <_dennister> i get the login page, type in my password, only 2 out of 6 or 8 icons get lit up, and then i'm dropped back into the login screen...i did login successfully with a console login, but 'starx' wouldn't work...dropped me right back into console
[21:41] <Exilant> all formated now, i hope that backup worked :)
[21:41] <ScarFreewill> I'm off Good Luck _dennister
[21:42] <_dennister> bye ScarFreewill
[21:42] <rjb> hmm tried bitpim, but it's not able to talk to my phone over usb afaics
[21:42] <BluesKaj> _dennister:  exactly the problem I had yesterday ...ran out of options and patience (IMO anyway) and did 3 clean installs so far ..all fail upon rebooting after setting up my fav apps and sources ..left the graphics settings alone , except for enabling the restricted default driver
[21:43] <_dennister> oh, nooooooo!!! and now ur in livecd!...I can't do a clean install now...I've got that lawsuit I'm still preparing
[21:44] <_dennister> hearing is on march 13 :P
[21:44] <BluesKaj> trying to rescue my last install, but it's taking a while , cuz my cli abilities are rather limited
[21:44] <_dennister> ok...locales 2.3.6 is conflicting with language-pack-en-base
[21:45] <_dennister> does anyone have a link to the fix for this thing?
[21:45] <mathew_> hey does anyone hear know a quick and easy to set up tv viewer?
[21:45] <mathew_> also a good
[21:45] <mathew_> one i tried kaffine but its slow
[21:45] <mathew_> like keeps jumping
[21:45] <mathew_> on piture
[21:46] <BluesKaj> _dennister:  you may be able to rescue it , genii seems to think it can be done
[21:46] <Exilant> rjb: you might have some luck with bitpim nonetheless, for example it can browse the filesystem on my s81, but doesn't automatically recognise it or can do anything else
[21:46] <_dennister> there were 3 language related updates i allowed today...does anyone remember precisely which ones they were?
[21:46] <rjb> Exilant: i tried, but couldn't get bitpim to communicate w/ my samsung *at all*
[21:47] <mathew_> hey does anyone hear know a quick and easy to set up tv programs?
[21:47] <mathew_> for kubuntu
[21:47] <Exilant> mathew_: xawtv?
[21:47] <BluesKaj> !languageissues
[21:47] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about languageissues - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[21:47] <mathew_> is it good
[21:47] <rjb> i had better luck with kmobiletools, but only browsing the phonebook and sms collection
[21:47] <BluesKaj> tvtime is good too
[21:48] <Exilant> mathew_: depends on what you want
[21:48] <rjb> it doesn't do file transfers afaics
[21:48] <mathew_> to be able to wacth tv without crappy flickers n stutters lol
[21:48] <BluesKaj> !language-pack
[21:48] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about language-pack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[21:48] <mathew_> how do i install it
[21:48] <_dennister> ok, well it says genii is here...i'll just go out to have a cig and then ping him...hopefully he'll be closeby
[21:49] <Exilant> mathew_: well, try it. apt-get install xawtv or the like
[21:49] <BluesKaj> he said he'd be around , _dennister
[21:50] <Daisuke_Ido> just have to mention one of the magic words
[21:50] <TheFuzzball> does anyone know how to install Compiz Fusion 0.7.0 in Kubuntu Gutsy?
[21:50] <Daisuke_Ido> coffee and beer
[21:50] <flipstar> !compiz > TheFuzzball
[21:50] <Daisuke_Ido> !compiz | TheFuzzball
[21:50] <ubotu> TheFuzzball: Kubuntu is not shipping with compiz installed or enabled by default. You can still install it and have your eyecandy goodness. The instructions are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion - further help in #compiz-fusion
[21:51] <trappist> is there a way to dump my current package selection to a file that I could use later to duplicate it?
[21:51] <mathew_> apt-get install xawtvapt-get install xawtvapt-get install xawtv
[21:51] <flipstar> !clone > trappist
[21:51] <trappist> flipstar: perfect, thanks
[21:52] <rjb> bluetooth is kind of flaky, every once in a while the devices just disconnect, breaking a long-running file transfer
[21:55] <BluesKaj> flipstar: mount: proc already mounted or /media/target/proc busy ; mount: according to mtab, proc is already mounted on /media/target/proc
[21:55] <rjb> and the speed reminds me of the times i used a printer cable to hook 2 pc's together
[21:55] <Exilant> hehe :)
[21:56] <rjb> PLIP it was called - IP over a parallel line (== printer cable)
[21:57] <Exilant> those were the days
[21:57] <Exilant> actually, that was better than the serial cable
[21:57] <rjb> faster, yes
[22:00]  * BluesKaj wonders what's next after mounting
[22:03] <flipstar> BluesKaj: after mount youre near to your target..try unmounting first ..
[22:03] <MrJoey> What Ubuntu package is fdisk in?
[22:03] <Arwen> !search fdisk
[22:03] <ubotu> Found:
[22:03] <BluesKaj> flipstar: unmounting ??
[22:04] <flipstar> its in base install
[22:04] <flipstar> with umount ..
[22:04] <BluesKaj> pls explain
[22:04] <flipstar> umount media/target/proc
[22:05] <BluesKaj> ok, don't understand why tho
[22:05] <trappist> now, any easy way to dump all crontabs to file I could use to restore them?
[22:05] <Jahromeo> !compiz
[22:06] <crookshanks> anyone know if it's possible to increase the buffer limit on pasting into konsole?
[22:06] <Jahromeo> ? compiz
[22:06] <ubotu> Kubuntu is not shipping with compiz installed or enabled by default. You can still install it and have your eyecandy goodness. The instructions are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion - further help in #compiz-fusion
[22:06] <MrJoey> Okay, fdisk is apparently in the package "mount"
[22:06] <flipstar> it says it already is mounted.. you also could just restart BluesKaj ..
[22:06] <BluesKaj> flipstar:  did the cmd  and this was the message : umount: media/target/proc is not mounted (according to mtab)
[22:07] <flipstar> crookshanks: in kde3 setting-->progress or similar
[22:07] <_dennister> ok, well i've pinged genii...will have to wait until he comes back from whereever
[22:07] <Aranel> I have a problem with Xterm. Here: xterm: Can't execvp /usr/X11R6/bin/luit: No such file or directory
[22:08] <flipstar> BluesKaj: restart would probably easyier..i did a error when i said mount media/blah instead of /media/blah ..
[22:09] <crookshanks> flipstar: progress?  i can't find that option
[22:09] <BluesKaj> restart ?  ...I
[22:09] <flipstar> crookshanks: i dont know how it is called..but it is in the menu there ..
[22:09] <swatto> anyone else go the bug when you click on a internet link in a program it trys to load the link in konqueror and then konqueror just disappears...
[22:09] <BluesKaj> I'm on Live CD , flipstar
[22:09] <flipstar> yes
[22:09] <Jahromeo> yep swatto had it with segmenation issues
[22:09] <Jahromeo> i reformatted
[22:09] <crookshanks> flipstar: do you mean the history buffer?  that's not linked to pasting though is it?
[22:10] <flipstar> crookshanks: this is what you wanted to change dont you
[22:10] <swatto> hmmm
[22:10] <crookshanks> flipstar: not history, i wanted to increasing the pasting buffer
[22:10] <flipstar> crookshanks: default is 1000 lines
[22:10] <flipstar> no it is not the bash history..
[22:10] <flipstar> thats a different thing
[22:11] <crookshanks> flipstar: i don't think i'm explaining my question well enough
[22:11] <crookshanks> flipstar: if i paste into konsole from my clipboard, using shift+insert, there's apparently a limit onto how much i can paste
[22:11] <flipstar> yes..1000 lines ..
[22:12] <crookshanks> flipstar: that's not the case as far as i can tell
[22:12] <crookshanks> i just tried to paste 413 lines and it stopped short
[22:12] <jpatrick> Hug Day! https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuBugDay/20080228/KDE
[22:13] <flipstar> crookshanks: then you might remove line format in the text you paste
[22:13] <Arwen> yay for topic length limits?
[22:13] <crookshanks> flipstar: i'm pasting raw text
[22:13] <crookshanks> no formatting
[22:13] <crookshanks> two_hc1_0:
[22:13] <crookshanks>   patient:    two
[22:13] <crookshanks>   field_name: hc1
[22:13] <crookshanks>   reason:     decrease from previous measurement
[22:13] <JoTrocken> has anyone some knowledge about the fglrx driver? Iḿ jsut getting a black screen when following the official installation guideline
[22:13] <jpatrick> Arwen: meh
[22:13] <flipstar> no line breaks ?
[22:14] <Jahromeo> ! compiz
[22:14] <ubotu> Kubuntu is not shipping with compiz installed or enabled by default. You can still install it and have your eyecandy goodness. The instructions are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion - further help in #compiz-fusion
[22:14] <Jahromeo> ? compiz
[22:14] <Jahromeo> !compiz
[22:15] <Arwen> when I use kdesu/kdesudo/sudo to start a GTK+ application like "Synaptic" or "Firefox", it loads with the ugly default GTK style instead of the one in KDE settings
[22:15] <Arwen> what could be causing that?
[22:15] <jpatrick> !msgthebot > Jahromeo
[22:15] <flipstar> Arwen: on hardy ?
[22:15] <BluesKaj> well, I think I'll try another clean install , waiting around is not my forte , I'll just uninstall language-pack updates before i reboot ...just hope some here which ones have to be  deleted :P
[22:16] <Arwen> flipstar, yeah
[22:16] <BluesKaj> some here know, that is
[22:16] <flipstar> Arwen: try "ln -s ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde ~/.gtkrc-2.0" and then run firefox
[22:17] <Arwen> hey, it works
[22:17] <Arwen> thanks
[22:17] <Arwen> you're GODLIKE
[22:17] <BluesKaj> oops , I forgot I was on the live cd :)
[22:18] <sebastian_> hi
[22:18] <sebastian_> hätte ne frage wegen meinem internet
[22:19] <jpatrick> !de | sebastian_
[22:19] <ubotu> sebastian_: Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu, Kubuntu und Edubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #xubuntu-de und #edubuntu-de
[22:19] <sebastian_> thx
[22:21] <rjb> *sigh* looks like i will need to boot windows in order to transfer large files to/from my phone
[22:21] <rjb> or buy a memory card reader and pop the micro sd back and forth
[22:22] <Ertain> Hello everyone.
[22:22] <Ertain> For some odd reason my computer keeps freezing up.
[22:22] <Ertain> I don't know why.
[22:22] <_dennister> ok, in case other pps run into this problematic update of language packs, here's one fix I'm gonna try: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-kde-en/+bug/187602 and the ubuntuforums thread on the same topic: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=695801&highlight=language+bug
[22:22] <_dennister> but i have to log out of kde4 to try it...be back soon
[22:22] <lordrayden> hi, is there a guide for configuring wine for windows games? I tried google and it didn't work
[22:22] <tzanger> good evening
[22:22] <tzanger> tell me, is it possible to take a debian install and "convert" it to the latest kubuntu?
[22:23] <Ertain> I'm running Kopete, along with normal programs, but it doesn't look like anything is amiss.
[22:23] <jpatrick> tzanger: no
[22:23] <tzanger> jpatrick: ok
[22:24] <jpatrick> tzanger: too much of a binary diff
[22:24] <tzanger> understood
[22:24] <Jahromeo> !compiz
[22:24] <ubotu> Kubuntu is not shipping with compiz installed or enabled by default. You can still install it and have your eyecandy goodness. The instructions are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion - further help in #compiz-fusion
[22:24] <tzanger> I wasn't sure if it was debian with a huge usability layer over top of it or what ;_)
[22:24] <tzanger> er :-)
[22:25] <lordrayden> ok, let's take it simple, after I install wine do I have to do extra configuration to plai windows games? or is it out of the box?
[22:26] <omeow> Adept just installed a list of updates and now I can no longer type a double quote. If I try it, then a / appears instead. What happened? My keyboard layout did not change. It's still set to what it was. US int.
[22:26] <lordrayden> play
[22:26] <lordrayden> is there a tutorial 4 that?
[22:28] <|FT|Cry_Wolf> anyone here?
[22:29] <|FT|Cry_Wolf> hello?
[22:29] <jpatrick> !hi | |FT|Cry_Wolf
[22:29] <ubotu> |FT|Cry_Wolf: Hi! Welcome to #kubuntu!
[22:31] <|FT|Cry_Wolf> i need some help with the instalation of kubuntu, its giving me an input/output error at about 57% install
[22:32] <|FT|Cry_Wolf> anyone?
[22:34] <lovre> hi all
[22:35] <lovre> when i run a movie with kaffeine, when the subtitles are big and go over the movie itself, the kaffeine and the whole computer blocks, or flitches... Why is this and how to fix?
[22:38] <BluesKaj> ok, is it the language-pack-en-base that's the conflicting and offending package that's breaking ppl's setups ?
[22:38] <BluesKaj> !language-pack-en-base
[22:39] <jpatrick> !info language-pack-en-base
[22:39] <ubotu> language-pack-en-base (source: language-pack-en-base): translations for language English. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.10+20080205 (gutsy), package size 3482 kB, installed size 16400 kB
[22:40] <Jahromeo> what is shortcut for katapult again
[22:40] <Jahromeo> keyboard shortcut
[22:40] <BluesKaj> jpatrick:  is that the one that's breaking ppl's systems ?
[22:40] <jpatrick> BluesKaj: hardy?
[22:40] <casper_> hey i have a gimp question. how do i convert a selection to a layer?
[22:40] <BluesKaj> alt+spcebar
[22:41] <BluesKaj> gutsy
[22:41] <storbeck> casper_: #gimp
[22:41] <casper_> ok
[22:42] <dennister> ok, fix i found in launchpad worked :)
[22:43] <BluesKaj> dennister:  url /
[22:43] <BluesKaj> ?
[22:43] <dennister> for anyone who can't get into kde3, just do a console login, and then type in 'LANG="en_US.UTF-8" startx'
[22:44] <casper_> #gimp is completely dead. someone please help. ill just repeat the question: How do i convert a selection to a layer in gimp?
[22:44] <dennister> i had typed in the ubuntuforums thread on this, and the launchpad url earlier, before i logged out
[22:45] <Jahromeo> !katapult
[22:45] <ubotu> katapult is the new application launcher for KDE, to be used with applications, bookmarks, and Amarok playlists. Once you have installed, hit Alt+f2 -> katapult, then hit Alt+Space, and type what you want.
[22:46] <tzanger> katapult is pretty nifty
[22:46] <dennister> BluesKaj: have you been logged in here continuously since we last talked? if so, scroll up for the urls ^^
[22:47] <BluesKaj> dennister: i just did this from the live cd and the languge pack was removed:  /media/target$ sudo apt-get remove language-pack-en-base
[22:48] <dennister> BluesKaj: did it work for you? r u back in kde on your drive?
[22:48] <BluesKaj> do you think it'll work , cuz i can't even access the login page or the tty on my system
[22:48] <BluesKaj> I haven't tried to reboot
[22:48] <BluesKaj> still on cd
[22:48] <dennister> i don't know...can u get a console login?
[22:49] <BluesKaj> dunno yet, i couldn't on the install
[22:49] <BluesKaj> anyway here goes ..bbiab
[22:49] <dogma> Salut tout le monde
[22:50] <dennister> just write down the phrase b4 you log out of livecd: LANG="en_US.UTF-8" startfx
[22:50] <dennister> too late :(
[22:51] <dogma> hmm how can i install windows messenger on kubuntu? it's the first time i use it
[22:51] <dogma> plz :)
[22:52] <dogma> it's maybe not possible
[22:52] <dogma> ?
[22:52] <SlimeyPete> use gaim or pidgin or kopete for msn chat.
[22:52] <hydrogen> err
[22:52] <hydrogen> gaim is pidgin
[22:52] <hydrogen> so you can't use one or the other
[22:53] <SlimeyPete> can too - older versions of kubuntu call it "gaim" ;)
[22:53] <dogma> when i launch kopete that's crash
[22:53] <dogma> (sorry for my english it's my main language)
[22:53] <dogma> (not*)
[22:53] <SlimeyPete> try pidgin then
[22:53] <niall_> you need to get the updates
[22:53] <niall_> to fix kopete
[22:54] <dennister> dogma: pidgin is good...it replaces all the instant messengers in one
[22:54] <boggystudios>  is there a tutorial on how to customize edubuntu (or any other linux distro) to a particular school?
[22:54] <dogma> it's include with kubuntu?
[22:54] <dennister> dogma: yes
[22:54] <niall_> dogma: have you got all the updates?
[22:55] <dogma> i dont sure ^
[22:55] <niall_> did you get any?
[22:55] <dogma> i'm on linux since 10 minutes
[22:55] <dennister> some versions of kubuntu, anyway, the more modern ones
[22:55] <jules223> anyone here got kubuntu running on a macbook
[22:55] <niall_> there should be a icon of a box with a ! on it, in the bottom left
[22:55] <niall_> click that
[22:55] <niall_> and click check for updates
[22:55] <Jahromeo> anyone willing to help me with emerald themer for a second - cant seem to find out where i can browse the themes once its dls them - stupid question :P
[22:55] <jules223> i cant seem to get the onboard net card working
[22:56] <dogma> i'm gonna check
[22:56] <flipstar> Jahromeo: use emerald-theme-manager :=)
[22:56] <niall_> bottom right I mean
[22:56] <niall_> ;]
[22:56] <phobes> What's the Kubuntu equivalent way to Ubuntu's monitor that lets you search for open files?
[22:56] <Jahromeo> i am flipstar - i cant seem to see where it saves em to once its done - edit just got the error - calling tar?
[22:57] <flipstar> no.. .emerald
[22:57] <flipstar> no.. ".emerald"
[22:58] <Jahromeo> Im using settings > emerald theme manager
[22:58] <Jahromeo> i cant see to see where it puts the themes once i click fetch themes
[22:58] <dennister> okiedoke...i'm going to rest my back with a nap...if BluesKaj comes back in, the fix to get back into kde after the language-pack-upgrade problem is ^^^^^
[22:58] <dennister> or for anyone else...cya soon
[22:59] <Jahromeo> is there any app that allows me to install my current install on my 4gb flashdrive?
[22:59] <Jahromeo> kind of like norton ghost in windows
[23:00] <rickest> Jahromeo: partimage
[23:00] <rickest> Jahromeo: I don't know if it's like norton ghost, tho
[23:01] <Jahromeo> it will allow me to install my customized kubuntu = e.g. my current desktop to a flashdrive @ rickest
[23:01] <sourcemaker> kde is blocking /dev/dsp... how can I fix this?
[23:02] <flipstar> Jahromeo: i get the same message when using this..try http://kde-look.org and download by yourself ..
[23:02] <crimsun_> sourcemaker: adjust artsd's timeout in System Settings
[23:02] <Jahromeo> thanks flipstar
[23:02] <dogma_> maw dont found the icon for updates ^
[23:02] <dogma_> ^^
[23:02] <rickest> Jahromeo: partimage makes a backup of your whole partition so it's at least similar
[23:03] <rickest> Jahromeo: the advantage of partimage over dd is it only backs up data (dd backs up every byte, data or no)
[23:03] <jules223> can someone tell me how to select a network device in kubuntu
[23:03] <rickest> jules223: meaning what by 'select'?
[23:04] <jules223> under the device tap of Knetworkmanager is says no active device
[23:04] <sourcemaker> crimsun_: fast response... fast solution... problem solved... thanks a lot :-)
[23:04] <Jahromeo> thanks rickest
[23:04] <Jahromeo> is there any way to kill an app or see whats running - like in windows its ctrl+alt+del
[23:05] <rickest> Jahromeo: in KDE I believe it's CTRL-ESC
[23:05] <Jahromeo> thanks perfect @ rikest
[23:05] <dogma_> can you say how to find the icon upadte in kubuntu easily plz? ^^
[23:06] <lordrayden> any fixes on the yahoo->kopete file transfer?
[23:06] <lordrayden> yet?
[23:06] <rickest> jules223: not really familiar with the network manager, sorry. maybe someone else can help
[23:06] <Jahromeo> dogma what are you trying to update
[23:08] <dogma_> kopete ^^
[23:08] <dogma_> because when i try to coonect on messenger that crash
[23:10] <Jahromeo> hmmm how bout removing it then re-installing?
[23:10] <flipstar> apt-get --reinstall install
[23:10] <flipstar> or use adept
[23:11] <dogma_> no i dont know to use konsol
[23:11] <Ertain> !flash
[23:11] <ubotu> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash (for !Dapper and !Edgy, a recent version is available in !backports) - See also !Restricted and !Gnash
[23:12] <derdui_> Hi does anybody know a voice changing tool for skype?
[23:13] <not|root> Hi. What repo is vmware-player in?  apt won't let me reinstall. :-/
[23:13] <not|root> better yet, how would I find out for myself?
[23:13] <LjL> not|root: it's not available in Gutsy
[23:13] <flipstar> !vmware | not|root
[23:13] <ubotu> not|root: VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository (package "vmware-player", not available for Gutsy, only Feisty and Edgy), and http://www.easyvmx.com/easyvmx.shtml can create VMs for it. Instructions can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware - See also !virtualizers
[23:13] <not|root> O_o
[23:14] <not|root> Uh, I need vmware-player to use quicken to pay bills.
[23:15] <flipstar> you could download it from the vmware website
[23:15] <flipstar> and follow the instructions
[23:15] <swatto> anybody know anything about setting up my keyboard to open my 2 CD-Trays and close them again
[23:15] <not|root> I guess I'll have to do that, then. :-/
[23:16] <flipstar> not|root: there are also others..
[23:16] <not|root> Or I could move the VM to a different machine.
[23:16] <flipstar> !virtualizers | not|root
[23:16] <ubotu> not|root: There are several solutions for running other operating systems (or their programs) inside Ubuntu, while using the native CPU as much as possible: !QEmu (with !KQemu), !VirtualBox, !VMWare, as well as !WINE and !Cedega for Windows applications
[23:16] <Jahromeo> i liked virtualbox
[23:16] <not|root> All of my data is in the vmware VM at the moment.
[23:17] <not|root> I'll just put the VM on my laptop I guess.
[23:17] <not|root> thanks
[23:17] <dogma_> !kopete
[23:17] <ubotu> Instant Messenger Client Kopete (http://kopete.kde.org) is supporting MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !gaim
[23:18] <ol_dude67> hey i went to install kdm and it didnt install right now i cant get apt-get to work at all it keeps errorring out on me, how do i fix it?
[23:18] <MrJoey> Is there a FAT (filesystem) equivalent of ntfsclone?
[23:19] <MrJoey> ol_dude67> Try sudo apt-get update and see what happens
[23:19] <MrJoey> You can also try sudo apt-get -f install or sudo apt-get clean all
[23:19] <Jahromeo> where can i find the kde control center?
[23:19] <swatto> type kcontrol
[23:19] <ol_dude67> MrJoey, , it errors too i already tried the update
[23:19] <Jahromeo> ta
[23:19] <MrJoey> Open the terminal and type 'kcontrol' :)
[23:19] <MrJoey> Have you tried clean all, then update?
[23:20] <MrJoey> update just updates the package listings; it doesn't upgrade everything.
[23:20] <sMonk> I need some help, again. I just tried to boot my system, and when I try to log on, it gets to the second stage of loading KDE and the screen goes black and kicks me back to login prompt. When I tried to do a console start, it says it checks the conf.0.log and then the conf file, then it shuts down the XServer. Any Ideas?
[23:20] <Jahromeo> is there a default mac os type option for taskbar - or do i need to install kiba-dock?
[23:20] <flipstar> sMonk: you need to unintall the latest translation pack update ..
[23:21] <sMonk> ok, how do I do that from console may I ask?
[23:21] <sMonk> Or should recovery mode do it?
[23:21] <yao_ziyuan> silly question: does linux need a software firewall?
[23:22] <beautifulsnow> Not really
[23:22] <Jahromeo> i still like ipcop/smoothwall for my networks :P
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> sMonk» "sudo apt-get remove language-pack-base language-pack-en"
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> !languagepack
[23:22] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about languagepack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:22] <beautifulsnow> Question: Does anyone know how to tell Konversation to run /nickserv identify PaSsWoRd when I connect to a server?
[23:22] <flipstar> yao_ziyuan: until you dont run a server you dont really need a firewall..
[23:22] <Jahromeo> yes
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> beautifulsnow» yeah... just a sec
[23:22] <yao_ziyuan> flipstar: ok
[23:23] <beautifulsnow> Tanks nosrednaekim
[23:23] <flipstar> yao_ziyuan: tr https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 .. all your ports should be closed :)
[23:23] <Jahromeo> i know how to do it when it starts
[23:23] <nosrednaekim> beautifulsnow» settings->identities
[23:23] <Jahromeo> but im looking in meu caus i dont want to quit
[23:24] <beener> for sum reason if i leave my computer idle for around 5 hours it logout by itself, which is a problem because i use it as a n alarm, anyone know how to fix this
[23:24] <beener> ?
[23:24] <derdui_> does anybody know a voicechanging tool for skype?
[23:24] <nosrednaekim> beautifulsnow» make the Service "NICKSERV" and the password..... your password ;)
[23:24] <Jahromeo> guys is there a default option for a max osx type taskbar in kcontrol - or do i need to dl something like kiba-dock?
[23:25] <nosrednaekim> Jahromeo» you need kiba dock, or awn or kooldock
[23:25] <Jahromeo> k i will go compile kiba
[23:25] <Jahromeo> kooldock is bad
[23:25] <beener> actualy it happend within 3-5 hours
[23:26] <BanTam> can someone help me get MergedFB working?
[23:27] <BanTam> ive pulled out all but 1 hair on my head today trying to get it working with my dual monitors
[23:27] <dogma_> Jahromeo i dont arrive to answer i'm no registered
[23:27] <dogma_>  :s
[23:28] <pcmax> Sysinfo for 'PCMAX': Linux 2.6.22-14-generic running KDE 3.5.8, CPU: AMDAthlon643500+ at 1000 MHz (2393 bogomips), , RAM: 994/1011MB, 115 proc's, 3.14h up
[23:28] <beautifulsnow> nosrednaekim thanks, i was wondering why the heck they asked for a service, i thought "IRC" DOH!
[23:28] <pcmax> Uptime: 3 hours and 15 minutes
[23:28] <Jahromeo> wow need 40mb of downloads to install kiba
[23:28] <nosrednaekim> Jahromeo» GTK?
[23:28] <Jahromeo> https://www.homeinc.de/int/index.php - following that
[23:28] <nosrednaekim> pcmax» thats nothin..... my brother's mythTV backend has 125 days :)
[23:29] <Jahromeo> unless you have an ubuntu tutorial somewhere
[23:29] <Jahromeo> !kiba-dock
[23:29] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kiba-dock - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:29] <nosrednaekim> !kiba
[23:29] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kiba - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:29] <beener> or at least someone point me to the power saveing stuff to see if its in there (but im not sure why it would log out???)
[23:29] <nosrednaekim> :)
[23:29] <pcmax> sudo apt-get install openarena
[23:29] <Jahromeo> https://www.homeinc.de/int/index.php - using that as my basis nosrednaekim
[23:29] <Jahromeo> its written by one of the compiz-fusion guys -ghostcube
[23:30] <BanTam> does anyone know anything about MergedFB?
[23:30] <nosrednaekim> probably good enough
[23:30] <Arwen> BanTam, me
[23:30] <Arwen> what do you need>?
[23:30] <BanTam> Oh thank God
[23:30] <BanTam> :)
[23:31] <BanTam> ok i followed the howto on how to set it up..
[23:31] <beautifulsnow> I love K/Ubuntu like... like... my first born to be :P <3___<3
[23:31] <BanTam> but im a little confused about the instructions
[23:31] <Arwen> well, for starters, paste your xorg.conf and walk through the steps you've taken so far
[23:32] <BanTam> ok
[23:33] <BanTam> http://pastebin.com/m7cb5b969
[23:33] <BanTam> theres my xorg.conf
[23:34] <Arwen> BanTam, ok, and what are you trying to accomplish?
[23:34] <BanTam> what confuses me is, in the device section, am i adding the settings for the 2nd monitor (the one im trying to add)  or for my MAIN monitor, and for the Monitor section, am i adding the settings to reflect on my MAIN monitor or the 2nd?
[23:34] <BanTam> im trying to get my dual monitors working BOTH with 3d acceleration
[23:35] <BanTam> im currently using xinerama (thats not the xorg.conf file in using for xinerama though..
[23:35] <dogma_> i've downloaded again kopete but i dont where must i click there a lot a files i understand nothing...
[23:35] <dogma_> on windows we must click on .exe files and on kubuntu how can i install a software?
[23:36] <Arwen> BanTam, under Monitor/Screen, you enter in the settings for your first display
[23:36] <Arwen> and then you add the rest of the settings in Device
[23:36] <Arwen> via Blah2Option
[23:36] <Arwen> I see two problems with your xorg.conf so far
[23:36] <Arwen> Metamodes should be "Horiz1xVert1-Horiz2xVert2"
[23:37] <BanTam> the device section, should reflect which monitor? main or 2nd?
[23:37] <Arwen> second
[23:37] <Arwen> MonitorLayout "CRC, CRT" doesn't look right either
[23:37] <Arwen> CRT, CRT*
[23:37] <nosrednaekim> !packages | dogma_
[23:37] <ubotu> dogma_: You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", the "apt:/" URL in KDE, or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 20000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
[23:38] <Arwen> 20000 packages, some of which ought to be phased out :-P
[23:38] <BanTam> [6:37:32 pm] <Arwen> CRT, CRT*  <--shouldbe a  * and not " ?
[23:39] <Arwen> no, that was a correction of a typo I made
[23:39] <BanTam> k
[23:39] <Arwen> how are your monitors hooked up?
[23:39] <nosrednaekim> Arwen» actually,its upwarsd of 25000 now
[23:39] <Arwen> hehe
[23:39] <BanTam> how about : Metamodes should be "Horiz1xVert1-Horiz2xVert2"  i enter that? or the #'s
[23:39] <dogma_>  ^^
[23:39] <Arwen> the numbers
[23:39] <Arwen> like 1280x1024-1280x800
[23:39] <BanTam> ive got the #s in there
[23:40] <flipstar> 24872
[23:40] <Arwen> BanTam, look at the syntax more carefully
[23:40] <dogma_> i deep in sh*t ^^
[23:40] <BanTam> oh sorry i see should be n  x
[23:40] <Arwen> "1024-768" "1024-768"  <-- should be 1024x768-1024x768
[23:40] <nosrednaekim> flipstar» hardy or gutsy?
[23:40] <BanTam> thanks for pointing that out
[23:40] <flipstar> ehm hardy..
[23:40] <Arwen> you also don't need "MergedNonRectangular" since they're the same rez
[23:40] <nosrednaekim> flipstar» well.... almost 25000 :)
[23:41] <flipstar> jep :P
[23:41] <BanTam> and the monitor section you say should reflect the MAIN monitor correct?
[23:41] <Arwen> yes
[23:41] <Arwen> the CRT2Whatever options reflect your secondary
[23:41] <BanTam> so that SHOULD work then?
[23:41] <BanTam> with those changes?
[23:41] <BanTam> Oh how about my drivers ? is the fglrx driver ok?
[23:41] <Arwen> well, your monitorlayout setting looks dodgy
[23:42] <Arwen> and you can't use it with fglrx, only atu
[23:42] <Arwen> ati*
[23:42] <BanTam> ok
[23:42] <sMonk> nosrednaekim: so if I do: "sudo apt-get remove language-pack-base language-pack-en"  Won't that mess up all my fonts? or no?
[23:42] <BanTam> well i will give it a whirl and see what happens thanks so much. will let you know what hapens
[23:42] <Arwen> BanTam, wait!
[23:43] <BanTam> ok
[23:43] <nosrednaekim> sMonk» certainly not your fonts...it just removes the canadian english dictionaries...
[23:43] <sMonk> nosrednaekim: or should i dpkg?
[23:43] <Arwen> BanTam, are both your monitors attached via VGA?
[23:43] <BanTam> yes
[23:43] <sMonk> ok
[23:43] <nosrednaekim> sMonk» you do use canadian repositories, right?
[23:43] <Arwen> then I think it should be crt1 and crt2 but I'm not sure
[23:43] <BanTam> uts a dual head
[23:43] <Arwen> for MonitorLayout
[23:43] <Arwen> you really don't have DVI? o.O
[23:43] <sMonk> mostly yes.. except for the spell check, because it only seems to work on US
[23:44] <BanTam> well one monitor is using the adapter
[23:44] <nosrednaekim> sMonk» okey.... then removing those should fix it
[23:44] <Arwen> then it should be "tmds, crt"
[23:44] <sMonk> nosrednaekim: thank you.
[23:44] <BanTam> even though its a crt monitor?
[23:45] <Arwen> yeah
[23:45] <BanTam> Ahh
[23:45] <sMonk> btw, when do you think it will be "safe" to re-install them?
[23:45] <Arwen> confusing, but the values actually reflect the port
[23:45] <BanTam> good lookin
[23:45] <BanTam> your RIGHT! it did mention that somewhere
[23:45] <nosrednaekim> sMonk» not sure... I think somone is already found a fix..
[23:45] <dogma_> its not possible.. what can i do to install kopete when I got it?
[23:45] <nosrednaekim> dogma_» whats not possible?
[23:46] <BanTam> Option "MonitorLayout" "LVDS (TMDS), CRT" # LVDS = Laptop Screen, TMDS = DVI Port, CRT = VGA Port NOT MONITOR TYPE!
[23:46] <BanTam>   Option "CRT2Hsync" "30-65"
[23:46] <sMonk> I found a site that tells you to dpkg -i an older file
[23:46] <BanTam> thats what the how to says
[23:46] <BanTam> Your good
[23:46] <Arwen> oh, and unless you uninstall fglrx, the "ati" driver will not run with 3d accel
[23:46] <flipstar> sMonk: you just have to find this particular file in the cache..then you can install via dpkg..
[23:46] <BanTam> so who would i enter that? "MonitorLayout" "LVDS (TMDS), CRT"
[23:46] <dogma_> because i dont understand on windows it's so easily to install a software here there is a lot of file and i dont know on what file can i click ton install..
[23:47] <nosrednaekim> sMonk» that works if you still have the older file around
[23:47] <Arwen> "MonitorLayout" "TMDS,CRT"
[23:47] <Arwen> "MonitorLayout" "TMDS, CRT" *
[23:47] <BanTam> ok
[23:47] <Arwen> without the asterisk...
[23:47] <BanTam> so then i need to uninstall the ATI proprietary drivers?
[23:47] <nosrednaekim> dogma_» its even easier in Linux.... open up the add-remove packages
[23:47] <sMonk> true.. well, I'll go remove them pgks.. thanks guys
[23:47] <Arwen> BanTam, yeah. You know, fglrx has a similar dual-head mode...
[23:48] <BanTam> the second monitor is using the adapter so should i put CRT, TMDS or no?
[23:48] <Arwen> yeah, that would be it
[23:48] <Arwen> first, second
[23:49] <BanTam> k
[23:49] <BanTam> do i need to change the identifier name of the monitor or no?
[23:49] <Arwen> no
[23:49] <not|root> \/j #ubuntu-complaints
[23:50] <BanTam> k
[23:50] <BanTam> and the driver should be ATI not fglrx
[23:50] <jcgkffycs> I've been using kde4 for awhile, but it has a lot of bugs, and finally crashed completely. I cannot get it up again. But I got accustomed to the present windows feature. I have installed compiz and emerald on kde3.5 but the command compiz --replace emerald --replace leaves me without window borders.
[23:50] <Arwen> BanTam, yes
[23:51] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» "compiz --replace && emerald --replace"
[23:51] <BanTam> ok im going to uninstall the ati prop driver now then give this a shot
[23:51] <BanTam> will i still have gl effects with the ati driver?
[23:51] <Arwen> yes, but somewhat slower
[23:51] <nosrednaekim> BanTam» depends on your hardware
[23:51] <BanTam> ok
[23:51] <Arwen> don't try motion blurring for one
[23:51] <nosrednaekim> ^_^
[23:52] <Arwen> last time I tried that, I killed X :_)
[23:52] <BanTam> ok im using envy to uninstall the driver.
[23:52] <Arwen> !
[23:52] <jcgkffycs> nosrednaekim: that didn't work either.
[23:52] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» do you have an nvidia?
[23:52] <supertanker> How come Kubuntu doesn't come with the Gimp?
[23:52] <jcgkffycs> no,
[23:52] <Arwen> supertanker, because it's not KDE
[23:52] <BanTam> it will automatically default back to the ati restricted driver?
[23:53] <Arwen> BanTam, don't know how envy works. I'd check afterwards to make sure.
[23:53] <beautifulsnow> PixelDemo FTW
[23:53] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» ATI? Intel?
[23:53] <BanTam> k
[23:53] <jcgkffycs> I think intel
[23:53] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» could you check?
[23:53] <BanTam> it said it was setting the driver to Vesa
[23:54] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» "lspci | grep -i vesa"
[23:54] <jcgkffycs> is there a command to check?
[23:54] <jcgkffycs> sorry thanks
[23:54] <jcgkffycs> lspci | grep -i vesa didn't output anything
[23:54] <BanTam> i guess i should reconfig xserver-xorg and get a fresh xorg.conf to work with?
[23:55] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» "lspci | grep -i VGA" sorry
[23:55] <Arwen> eh, dunno, there's nothing too wrong with your current one. If you do, make sure to enter the mergedfb changes into it :-P
[23:55]  * Arwen loves Hardy's Xorg 7.3 xrandr = no metamode nonsense
[23:55] <nosrednaekim> :)
[23:55] <BanTam> ill paste em all in , i saved a copy of xorg.conf in a temp folder
[23:55] <BanTam> :)
[23:56] <jcgkffycs>  VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[23:57] <nosrednaekim> jcgkffycs» ok....so, open a konsole and run "compiz --replace && emerald --replace" and tell me what errors you get.... you can restore the borders with "kwin --replace", but don't close the konsole
[23:57] <BanTam> well here goes everything
[23:57] <BanTam> brb
[23:59] <BluesKaj> no joy dennister  :(
[23:59] <nosrednaekim> BluesKaj» still having problems with lang-pack?


[06:51] <dholbach> good morning
[08:40] <vish> nigelb: as you are not reading your bug mail ;)  > Bug #515682  needs a reply :)
[08:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 515682 in metacity (Ubuntu) (and 4 other projects) "Change "Show Desktop" keybinding to Super+D (affects: 5) (heat: 38)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515682
[08:41] <nigelb> vish: I saw that in the morning, I'm waiting for my anger to subside :D
[08:41] <vish> heh
[08:44] <nigelb> vish: also, that bug needs talking to desktop team to see if they're interested in such a change
[08:46] <vish> nigelb: andrew mentions the specs in UDS-l , might have already been discussed,  probably needs to be linked?
[08:47] <nigelb> vish: I guess I can't put off *NOT* commeting on that bug
[08:51] <nigelb> vish: meekly aplogized :)
[08:52] <vish> ;)
[13:52] <nigelb> dholbach: lol, I should perhaps be a professional recruiter :D
[13:52] <nigelb> I've been recruiting for open week, user days, and now dev week :p
[13:53] <BlackZ> hey nigelb
[13:54] <nigelb> BlackZ: heya!
[13:55] <nigelb> did you become a contributing developer?
[13:55] <BlackZ> nigelb: yes
[13:55] <nigelb> BlackZ: congrats!
[13:55] <dholbach> nigelb: hm? :-)
[13:56] <BlackZ> nigelb: thanks :)
[13:56] <nigelb> dholbach: I think we've roped in jml :)
[13:56] <nigelb> dholbach: its fun trying to get instructors as 2 people attacking at the same time :D
[13:57] <nigelb> btw, I talked to persia y'day, he'll work on his work items this week or max next week
[14:11] <dholbach> nigelb: how much of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix do you think we should integrate into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/ReviewGuide?
[14:12] <dholbach> nigelb: or do you think it's enough to just refer to it and add it to the KB?
[14:13] <dholbach> nigelb: maybe it should be ReviewersTeam/WorkingWithPatches or something?
[14:13] <dholbach> so we can separate "process" from the actual "technical bits"
[14:20]  * nigelb is checking now
[14:22] <nigelb> dholbach: I think we need to re-write to make it more of a "how to test patches"
[14:24] <dholbach> nigelb: so it could be "how to get the source", "how to apply a patch" and "how to build it/test it"?
[14:24] <nigelb> yep
[14:24] <dholbach> nigelb: we could probably also move the "how/when to upstream it" there
[14:24] <nigelb> we need to have a more simpler pbuilder page too
[14:24] <dholbach> nigelb: so the reviewers guide is short and clean and is just process and the big picture
[14:25] <nigelb> yep, we can link to these resouces but have these pages under the reviewersteam name space
[14:25] <dholbach> ok
[14:25] <dholbach> I'll put a bit of work into that page now
[14:25]  * nigelb hugs dholbach
[14:25] <nigelb> :)
[14:26]  * dholbach hugs nigelb back
[14:45] <dholbach> nigelb: MAN!!!!!!!
[14:45] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OperationCleansweep does not have THE LINK
[14:45] <dholbach> nigelb: can you add it there?
[14:45]  * nigelb blinks!
[14:46] <dholbach> it just has "List of bugs with patches sent upstream."
[14:46] <dholbach> it needs "List of bugs you should be working on."
[14:46] <dholbach> in HUGE, BOLD, BLINKING FONT
[14:46] <nigelb> hehe, ok
[14:47] <dholbach> BLINKING, so it's harder to click and people stay longer on the page ;-)
[14:47] <dholbach> and read the rest of the docs too
[14:48] <nigelb> working on it
[14:48] <dholbach> super
[14:49] <nigelb> dholbach: can you seriously get blinking text on wiki?
[14:49] <dholbach> I don't know - I was just kidding
[14:50] <dholbach> but it should be prominent :)
[14:50] <nigelb> highlighted in red?
[14:52] <dholbach> as you like it
[14:53] <nigelb> check now :)
[14:54] <dholbach> can I change it to "Read enough? Review the list and help out now!"? :)
[14:55] <dholbach> nigelb: ^?
[14:55] <nigelb> dholbach: please go ahead :)
[14:55] <dholbach> :)
[14:55] <dholbach> awesome
[14:56]  * dholbach goes back to writing more patch docs
[14:56] <nigelb> dholbach: can we spread out a message of review 1 patch a day?
[14:56] <nigelb> perhaps on the next blog post which is scheduled to be done by jcastro
[14:57] <dholbach> nigelb: what do you want to get done?
[15:00] <nigelb> dholbach: get more people to help :)
[15:00] <nigelb> one patcha a day sounds easy to everyone
[15:00] <dholbach> oh sure
[15:00] <dholbach> tell jcastro
[15:45] <dholbach> nigelb: first cut of patch docs landed
[15:45] <dholbach> nigelb: and merged it into the docs
[15:45] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/ReviewGuide should be more concise now
[15:46] <dholbach> nigelb: I'll put a bit more work into it
[15:46] <dholbach> but that'll be tomorrow
[15:47] <dholbach> nigelb: once that's done, we should talk to bdmurray and jcastro about merging or at least unifying ReviewersTeam/WorkingWithPatches, Bugs/HowToFix and Bugs/Patches and relevant parts of PackagingGuide
[15:47] <dholbach> nigelb: I put a bit of work into doing that already
[15:47] <dholbach> but I need help with that
[15:50] <dholbach> brb


[12:14] <SteveA> yeah.  very strange.
[12:15] <SteveA> anyway, thanks for the offer to help manage the mailing list.  I think we're doing okay at the moment, but you can ask Kiko if you see him around on irc.
[12:22] <theCore> nope, no spam
[12:22] <theCore> sorry for the false "accusation"
[12:24] <lifeless> jamesh: or spiv: either of you around ?
[12:48] <spiv> lifeless: pong
[12:57] <lifeless> spiv: never mind, was going to ask for a pqm check, but I've since found we need an upgrade to dapper first
[12:57] <lifeless> spiv: btw, hows the sci-fi ?
[01:01] <spiv> lifeless: working on splitting up smart.py atm
[01:01] <lifeless> excellent
[02:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69988 in launchpad "UnicodeDecodeError crack in doctest" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69988
[02:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[02:30] <LarstiQ> hey mpt :)
[03:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69995 in blueprint "/sprints/X/+specs and /sprints/X/+assignments pages are almost identical" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69995
[04:30] <lifeless> jamesh: can we have a phone call ? I've got some OOSP questions
[04:36] <jamesh> lifeless: okay.  Do you want to try voip?
[04:37] <lifeless> skype ?
[04:37] <jamesh> sure
[04:39] <jamesh> lifeless: sftp://devpad.canonical.com/code/jamesh/oops-tools/devel
[05:01] <mpt> stub, have you deactivated "shoes order"?
[05:01] <stub> yes
[05:02] <mpt> oh, the person page even says so
[05:02] <stub> well... as close to deactivated as we can
[05:02] <mpt> though in a rather clumsy way
[05:02] <jamesh> spiv has a merge-conditional branch to add support for deactivating users
[05:02] <mpt> ok
[05:02] <mpt> Will that remove the "Hey, I'm shoes order" link?
[05:02] <jamesh> don't know
[05:16] <mpt> Receiving spam is a sign of a useful Web service
[05:21] <jamesh> it means we must have good googlejuice
[05:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70010 in malone "Resummarized bug report is mailed with old summary" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70010
[05:48] <lifeless> mpt: I did that at 10am :)
[05:48] <lifeless> stub: you were a little late to the spam-finding party :) - you should read the launchpad list more ;)
[05:51] <stub> Just because I read my inbox before launchpad!
[05:52] <lifeless> :] -
[08:19] <mpt> jamesh or spiv, a 1-minute review please: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileCaNp9y.html
[08:20] <mpt> ( https://launchpad.net/distros/+bugs shouldn't exist, but currently is identical to https://launchpad.net/distros )
[08:23] <jamesh> mpt: I think the point of that code was for https://launchpad.net/malone/distros
[08:24] <jamesh> so that it would show a list of distros and the links would take you to e.g. https://launchpad.net/malone/distros/ubuntu (which would show a bug listing)
[08:24] <jamesh> however, the links on that index page don't actually do that ...
[08:25] <jamesh> do it is probably worth removing
[08:25] <jamesh> s/do/so/
[08:26] <jamesh> mpt: probably also get rid of the <browser:defaultView> for IDistributionSet/MaloneLayer too
[08:27] <mpt> ok
[08:29] <mpt> Does a defaultView element make "view/*" expressions work?
[08:29] <jamesh> no
[08:29] <mpt> darn
[08:30] <jamesh> <browser:defaultView for="IDistribution" name="+index" /> means that if I go to the URL for a distribution (e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu), it will display its "+index" view (e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+index)
[08:30] <mpt> oh
[08:31] <mpt> (In another branch, I need to make view/searchtext_widget work in a custom bugs template)
[08:31] <jamesh> in a page template, "view" is the instance of the view class
[08:32] <jamesh> i.e. the class referenced in the class attribute of the <browser:page> element
[08:33] <mpt> Meanwhile, do you want me to remove /malone/distros as well, or is that change ok by itself?
[08:33] <jamesh> should be alright by itself
[08:33] <mpt> ok, thanks
[08:33] <jamesh> /malone/distros should pick up the default defaultView (+index) and display exactly the same thing
[08:35] <mpt> jamesh, on a completely different subject, what is the name of the package that puts up the graphical password prompt in bzr commit?
[08:35] <jamesh> mpt: gnome-gpg (assuming that's what you've selected in ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf)
[08:37] <mpt> thanks
[08:39] <jamesh> any particular problem with it?
[08:39] <mpt> Yes, whenever the password prompt window opens, it is focused but looks like it isn't
[08:41] <mpt> and the "Authorize Password Access" can't decide whether it's talking about passphrases (which I'd prefer) or passwords
[08:41] <jamesh> that's weird.  It has a focused window border for me.
[08:41] <mpt> Should I report bugs?
[08:42] <jamesh> sure.
[08:42] <jamesh> https://launchpad.net/products/gnome-gpg
[08:44] <jamesh> mpt: The "Authorize Password Access" dialog sounds like it comes from gnome-keyring-daemon
[08:44] <mpt> oh dear
[08:44] <mpt> I was going to request that it be exactly the same as the other prompt, but with the text field pre-filled :-)
[08:45] <mpt> so that if you instinctively start typing the passphrase it will Just Work
[08:45] <jamesh> Is the window you see one like "The application 'gnome-gpg
[08:45] <jamesh> ' wants to access the password for ..."
[08:48] <mpt> no
[08:48] <mpt> It's "You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for user ... The passphrase is cached in memory."
[08:48] <mpt> So the first part is just the same as the one that asks for the passphrase
[08:49] <mpt> Is that gnome-gpg, or gnome-keyring-daemon?
[08:49] <jamesh> That doesn't sound like gnome-gpg
[08:50] <jamesh> what is the title on the dialog?
[08:50] <mpt> "Authorize Password Access"
[08:50] <jamesh> gnome-gpg uses the title "GNU Privacy Guard passphrase"
[08:50] <jamesh> sounds like you're using something else
[08:50] <mpt> Yes, that's the title of the alert I see normally
[08:51] <mpt> when I do commits more than X minutes apart, I guess
[08:52] <jamesh> if you can bring the dialog up, in another terminal, try running "xprop", then click on the dialog
[08:52] <mpt> ah, xprop!
[08:52] <mpt> That's the command whose name I was trying to remember when I first saw this bug
[08:53] <mpt> seahorse-daemon
[08:54] <jamesh> now you know where the dialog came from ...
[08:54] <mpt> yes
[09:07] <carlos> morning
[09:08] <mpt> reported bug 70025 and bug 70028
[09:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70025 in gnome-gpg "Passphrase prompt is focused but looks like it isn't" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70025
[09:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70028 in gnome-gpg "Passphrase prompt mixes "passphrase" and "password"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70028
[10:27] <SteveA> mpt: morning
[10:27] <mpt> hi SteveA
[10:32] <janneke-lily> I've registered LilyPond's CVS branch.  The status now says: Auto Tested, Date last sync finished: 2006-10-31.
[10:32] <janneke-lily> But there's nothing but ~janneke/+junk when I login on sftp?
[10:35] <SteveA> spiv: still around?
[10:36] <jamesh> janneke-lily: the import will be made available when ddaa checks it over
[10:37] <carlos> spiv: I see you are the assigned reviewer for carlos/launchpad/bug-68014-step2
[10:37] <jamesh> janneke-lily: but when it does get published, you still won't see it via SFTP -- it'd be published via HTTP
[10:37] <carlos> spiv: I was going to request an urgent review today, will you be able to do it?
[10:37] <LaserJock> what's the best way to do a request ticket for LP? I need my @ubuntu.com redirect changed
[10:39] <carlos> LaserJock: I think it's enough changing your preferred email address in Launchpad
[10:40] <LaserJock> carlos: hmm, last time it didn't work
[10:40] <carlos> LaserJock: it has a delay
[10:40] <LaserJock> I can wait for a few days to see if it works this time
[10:40] <carlos> well, I don't think it should take much more than a single day
[10:40] <LaserJock> last time I waited at least 1 week and kiko did a RT for me
[10:41] <LaserJock> I thought that was the last time I'd have to do it
[10:41] <carlos> LaserJock: are you changing it again?
[10:41] <carlos> or it's still that other change that is not yet done?
[10:41] <LaserJock> but then the department server blew up and I got an email saying my main email address was being removed soonish
[10:41] <LaserJock> it was changed after the RT
[10:42] <carlos> ok
[10:42] <LaserJock> I just need to move it again unfortunately
[10:42] <carlos> try to change it in launchpad
[10:42] <LaserJock> I'll keep an eye on it then
[10:43] <LaserJock> last time LP mail was fine but @ubuntu.com redirected to the old address
[10:45] <carlos> and if it's not changed tomorrow, you can file a new RT ticket sending an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:45] <janneke-lily> Ok, it will be a one-way gateway.  When will will it be published, or where
[10:45] <janneke-lily> do i have to look?
[10:46] <LaserJock> carlos: ok, thanks
[10:46] <carlos> LaserJock: your are welcome
[11:37] <mpt> meh
[11:37] <mpt> SteveA, +icing doesn't support subdirectories. Should it?
[11:46] <carlos> danilos: ping
[11:54] <SteveA> mpt: no
[11:54] <mpt> ok
[11:54] <mpt> I've given all the app graphics prefixes instead
[12:45] <danilos> carlos: pong
[12:45] <danilos> hi jordi ;)
[12:46] <jordi> hello
[12:46] <jordi> so I think I dropped off opn yesterday or so
[12:59] <mpt> jordi, yes, there was a netsplit
[01:03] <jordi> aha
[01:03] <jordi> danilos: any concern re: sr team?
[01:03] <jordi> if not, we can tell carlos to do the magic
[01:04] <jordi> actually, carlos is right
[01:04] <danilos> jordi: well, apart from the lack of quality of translations they have done so far, no ;) but I'll email them about it anyway :)
[01:04] <jordi> iirc, the team already existed
[01:05] <jordi> hmm
[01:05] <jordi> no it didn't
[01:05] <danilos> well, I know the team ubuntu-l10n-sr existed for quite some time
[01:05] <jordi> the sr translations have been "freestyle" until now :)
[01:05] <danilos> since I've been a member long time ago (and now my membership expired)
[01:05] <jordi> it's not in the list though
[01:05] <danilos> ah, maybe that explains the "quality"? :)
[01:05] <danilos> right
[01:06] <danilos> btw, what would be the procedure if I wanted to take over ownership of the team? :P
[01:06] <jordi> you have more chances than other people:
[01:07] <jordi> 1) talk to them politely
[01:07] <jordi> 2) use your SUPERPOWERS and take over. :)
[01:07] <carlos> jordi: we don't have such superpowers...
[01:07] <danilos> haha, not planning on doing 2) :)
[01:07] <carlos> you need to be an admin
[01:07] <jordi> but we're good friends of Mr. Kiko, who has them. :)
[01:08] <danilos> jordi: right :)
[01:08] <carlos> yeah :-P
[01:09] <danilos> btw, the reasons I am even thinking about this is not because I'd like to have another duty for myself, but rather, because I've never heard of those guys, and the current owner, Ljubisa, has only been a bit vocal on some l10n lists (never seen him do anything, even if he claims to be part of Gnome, KDE teams)
[01:10] <jordi> right
[01:11] <jordi> you can try to coordinate a little at the beginning
[01:11] <jordi> not do translations
[01:12] <danilos> I guess he didn't hear of Serbian Fedora translation team (which is pretty active; I know because I am hosting a mailing list for them :), or he'd put that in his "CV" as well :)
[01:12] <carlos> well, one of the reasons to lose the ownership of the team
[01:12] <carlos> is bad translations or low quality work
[01:12] <carlos> being nice, of course
[01:13] <carlos> but is the a good reason to ask for the ownership
[01:13] <carlos> s/the a/a/
[01:14] <danilos> I'd rather wait and see if Nikola can resurrect things first (as I said, I don't need another responsibility :)
[01:15] <danilos> but Ljubisa's "included in several teams" actually means "I am subscribed to their mailing lists"
[01:36] <Mez> hmm
[01:36] <Mez> any LP admins around?
[01:37] <Mez> someone called Stuart apparently should be deailing with this
[01:37] <Mez> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/1576
[01:37] <Mez> ah - stub :D
[01:44] <danilos> Mez: there's also an "Assignee: Stuart Bishop" field on the right side; btw, I think only stub can help you if this requires DB hackery
[01:44] <Mez> ;)
[01:44] <Mez> yeah i nticed that after ;)O
[02:13] <LarstiQ> is anyone working on bug 57394 / bug 55795 ?
[02:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57394 in soyuz "Ubuntu replaces Debian maintainer by Ubuntu maintainer in changelog" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57394
[02:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55795 in soyuz "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55795
[02:13] <LarstiQ> there is no assigned at the moment
[02:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70067 in blueprint "Specification tracker should make it clearer when to file a bug" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70067
[03:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70074 in rosetta "Add direct link downloads" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70074
[03:43] <seb128> carlos: french translators have a good point about the translator-credits issue. They translate it correct, then come a new package version, the strings are imported, if there is new contributors they don't know about it and rosetta keeps using the previous translation (there is no fuzzy indicating it's to update)
[03:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70080 in blueprint "Supersede list box is excessively wide; use name instead?" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70080
[04:38] <carlos> seb128: is that an argument to demostrate that it should be handled automatically?
[04:39] <jordi> hello
[04:39] <seb128> carlos: no, that's their reply to "translators should fix those"
[04:40] <seb128> carlos: they say that's not a matter to fix but to know what change and is to fix
[04:40] <carlos> I see
[04:40] <seb128> carlos: they say they can't control them after every upload to see if the list of contributors changed
[04:40] <seb128> that's too much work for them
[04:41] <carlos> sure
[04:41] <carlos> the point to 'they should fix it' was about changes to put there 'Ubuntu French translators'
[04:42] <carlos> anyway, as we agreed yesterday, we are going to revert it automatically
[04:43] <seb128> ok, good
[04:43] <seb128> I was just forwarded info they sent me by mail :)
[04:43] <seb128> I told them I would let you know about what they have to say
[04:44] <seb128> anyway, I'm away 10 min, bbl
[04:44] <carlos> ok
[04:44] <carlos> seb128: thanks
[05:02] <flacoste> wow, the latency to devpad is really high
[05:04] <flacoste> bzr push bzr+ssh: has been started for 5 minutes and no progress bar appeared yet
[05:04] <flacoste> :-(
[05:04] <ddaa> got good latency here
[05:05] <ddaa> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 14.181/16.402/33.680/3.891 ms
[05:25] <carlos> kiko: I'm up to date with rosetta-users mailing list
[06:06] <ddaa> random reviewer: ping
[06:06] <ddaa> flacoste: ping?
[06:07] <flacoste> ddaa: pong
[06:07] <ddaa> looking for suggestions for the tests cases of importd-cscvs-import
[06:08] <ddaa> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/david/launchpad/importd-cscvs-import/full-diff
[06:08] <ddaa> that's assigned to salgado, but he's not around
[06:08] <ddaa> got the time to talk this through?
[06:09] <flacoste> yeah, i got a few minutes before lunch
[06:09] <ddaa> so... the patch fixes import so it drives cscvs correctly
[06:09] <ddaa> the previous code was correct for cvs imports, but not for svn imports
[06:10] <ddaa> while I experimented with fixes, I encountered various corner cases
[06:10] <ddaa> they translated into import failures because of limitations of cscvs
[06:10] <ddaa> one problem we have here is that the svn support of importd is not tested at all
[06:11] <carlos> see you next week at UDS or IRC!
[06:11] <ddaa> one approach to test the fix is to make a svn repository that exercises the various corner cases I encountered
[06:11] <ddaa> that's good because it records the experience
[06:12] <ddaa> that's bad because the correctness of the tests is based on some idiosyncrasies of cscvs
[06:12] <ddaa> another approach to test the fix is to stub out cscvs entirely
[06:12] <ddaa> and check that importd gives cscvs the right messages
[06:12] <flacoste> that would be a more unit-test approach
[06:13] <ddaa> that's good because it does not depend of cscvs internals
[06:13] <ddaa> that's bad because it does actually test that the messages deliver the intended result
[06:13] <flacoste> doesn't you meant?
[06:13] <ddaa> meant what?
[06:14] <flacoste> "that's bad because it /doesn't/ actually test that the messages deliver the intended result"
[06:14] <ddaa> right, I meant doesn't
[06:14] <ddaa> and did not meant does
[06:14] <ddaa> does I?
[06:14] <flacoste> :-)
[06:15] <LarstiQ> how do I did?
[06:16] <flacoste> i think the first approach is more useful in this case, since from what you report we don't have any integration tests of a svn import
[06:16] <flacoste> so adding that would be a definitive plus
[06:16] <ddaa> yep, that's what i started doing
[06:16] <ddaa> until I started describing _why_ we are setting up this particular weird svn repo
[06:17] <ddaa> then I thought "this is too clever for its own good"
[06:17] <flacoste> well, i see you stated that these "corner cases" were more common nowadays
[06:17] <flacoste> so they should be documented
[06:17] <ddaa> well, they are also corner cases in cscvs
[06:18] <ddaa> for example the fact that full-tree import does not do deletes
[06:18] <flacoste> ok, this I'm not sure i see
[06:18] <ddaa> or the fact that changes above the branch root are completely ignored, even if they involve the creation of the branch
[06:18] <ddaa> those are arguably bugs
[06:19] <ddaa> low-priority, but still bugs
[06:19] <LarstiQ> well, whatever is used to do the import, it needs to be able to handle the svn repo anyway?
[06:19] <flacoste> exactly!
[06:19] <ddaa> and it's the presence of those bugs that made the bug in how importd drives cscvs apparent
[06:20] <ddaa> LarstiQ: flacoste: sure, but I can test that with a plain simple svn repo
[06:20] <ddaa> instead of a particularly contrived repo invented to exercise several corner cases at the same time
[06:20] <flacoste> but we need to handle those contrived repo
[06:20] <flacoste> so it's useful to document them
[06:20] <LarstiQ> ddaa: rule 0, those contrived repos exist in the wild, no?
[06:21] <ddaa> Yes, but this test would not prove that we Do The Right Thing, just that this particular repo happens to import
[06:21] <flacoste> i wouldn't state in the documentation that it's setup that way because of details in cscvs implementation
[06:21] <flacoste> but it's start to prevent regression
[06:22] <flacoste> which is a good thing
[06:22] <LarstiQ> ddaa: aye, both looks to be the best solution
[06:22] <flacoste> and what is Do The Right Thing in this case? stating that wouuld give an idea of the test you should write
[06:23] <ddaa> The right thing is "do a full tree import for the first revision, then do an incremental import starting on the following revision"
[06:24] <flacoste> how can you show that you did an incremental import?
[06:24] <ddaa> mostly, because deletes are effective, because cscvs does not currently do deletes in full-tree imports.
[06:24] <ddaa> but the intention is to avoid senseless traffic to the svn server
[06:25] <flacoste> hmm, i see what you meant by cscvs details
[06:25] <ddaa> the corner cases also involve non-obvious values of "first" and "following"
[06:26] <ddaa> which are due to the way the svn revision range parser works
[06:27] <ddaa> also, we _need_ full-tree import for the first revision because cscvs currently ignores changes above the branch root...
[06:27] <ddaa> (when doing incremental import)
[06:28] <flacoste> could you instrument cscvs to log the command it is executing?
[06:28] <ddaa> not really... since it's calling into libsvn
[06:28] <ddaa> I could monkey patch pysvn, but that's would be massively inappropriate intimacy
[06:29] <ddaa> esp knowing that I plan to replace pysvn by custom pyrex bindings soon
[06:29] <flacoste> cscvs doesn't do any logging?
[06:29] <ddaa> the cscvs logging is a horrible mess
[06:29] <ddaa> I do not even want to start on this
[06:30] <ddaa> Well, I _could_ monkey patch the thing it uses to give "heartbeat" signals to buildbot
[06:30] <flacoste> ok
[06:30] <ddaa> so we would get different number of heartbeats for incremental and full-tree imports
[06:31] <flacoste> that's thin
[06:31] <ddaa> and I could record the logging it produces when importing individual revisions
[06:31] <flacoste> what would be great would be to see what SVN protocols command are issued
[06:31] <ddaa> way too much ATM
[06:32] <ddaa> it's using the svn_client API and that's massively inefficient, that's one of the reasons to switch to custom pyrex bindings
[06:32] <ddaa> (because pysvn does not give us access to the low-level APIs we need, and the upstream swig bindings are like pepper in the eyes"
[06:33] <LarstiQ> ddaa: you've talked to jelmer about this?
[06:33] <ddaa> jelmer has put some fixes into the swig bindings
[06:34] <ddaa> and got them included in edgy (althought they are not in a released version of svn)
[06:34] <ddaa> but nevertheless, the swig bindings do waaaay too much black magic for me
[06:34] <ddaa> the fact that they have been pretty much useless up to now gives me zero confidence in their reliability
[06:34] <ddaa> jelmer will likely disagree, but it's an argument I do not wish to have with him.
[06:35] <LarstiQ> ok
[06:35] <flacoste> ddaa: would it be simpler to do both what you proposed: contrived repository + checking that cscvs is called appopriately?
[06:35] <ddaa> two wrongs do not make one right...
[06:36] <flacoste> it's not completely the 'Righ Thing'(tm) but it would be a base to build on
[06:36] <ddaa> I think it's better to actually use the logging
[06:36] <flacoste> we have an integration test to prevent regression
[06:36] <ddaa> since it gives us a window into what we actually care about
[06:36] <flacoste> well, you're the judge here
[06:36] <ddaa> well...
[06:37] <ddaa> nah, contrived repos should live in the cscvs test suite
[06:37] <flacoste> i really think the contrived repository is a good thing to have
[06:38] <flacoste> in cscvs or importd
[06:38] <flacoste> well, if cscvs was tested correctly, showing that importd called cscvs correctly would be enough
[06:38] <ddaa> well no, because the way cscvs needs to be called is a bug on many levels...
[06:39] <flacoste> the thing is that the showing the logging is again pretty cscvs specific
[06:39] <ddaa> the API we use is ugly and the UI it is a backed of makes baby jesus cry
[06:39] <ddaa> so it's not something that is meaningful or likely to be stable
[06:40] <flacoste> would the logging strategy be?
[06:40] <ddaa> pass a collecting logger object to cscvs
[06:40] <ddaa> look for lines that look like "WARNING: changeset N"
[06:40] <ddaa> and "change X"
[06:41] <ddaa> filter out the rest
[06:41] <flacoste> i mean when you switch to pyrex binding would the logging-based test code require change?
[06:41] <ddaa> so we can check that we import the right revisions, only once, and that we do not process too many changes (which happens if we are not incremental)
[06:41] <ddaa> nope
[06:41] <ddaa> the logging happens way up the stack
[06:42] <ddaa> it's susceptible to change too, but the changes should be easy to understand when they happen
[06:42] <flacoste> and the contrived repo test, would it require change?
[06:43] <flacoste> forget that last question
[06:43] <flacoste> i misread your reply
[06:43] <ddaa> nope, the pyrex transition should be pretty much feature-invariant as far as impord is concerned
[06:43] <flacoste> so, the logging testing seems like a good choice
[06:43] <ddaa> Thanks for talking this through with me.
[06:44] <flacoste> and like you said, the contrived repo should be added to cscvs
[06:44] <flacoste> my pleasure, ddaa!
[06:44] <flacoste> i'm sure working on that section of code can be painful at times
[06:44] <ddaa> flacoste: actually the contrived repo needs not be added to cscvs
[06:45] <ddaa> instead, the individual corner cases should be unit-tested in the appropriate places
[06:45] <flacoste> indeed, that's the best
[06:46] <ddaa> flacoste: it's especially painful when reviewers ask questions whose answer is "because it needs to be that way to work" ;)
[06:46] <flacoste> but putting one contrived repo test is probably less work than retro-fitting unit tests and gives a good safety net against regression
[06:46] <flacoste> lol
[06:47] <ddaa> Yeah, the contrived repo test would be useful... depends on how much work it would take...
[06:47] <ddaa> it's hard to decide these matters...
[06:48] <flacoste> it may not necessarily needed to be added now, but before switching to pyrex bindings would probably be a good idea
[06:48] <ddaa> TBH, i'll probably never get around to it
[06:49] <flacoste> again, i would be the judge on this, i'm not familiar enough with these parts to have a judgement on that
[06:49] <flacoste> sorry
[06:49] <ddaa> the specific patches to merge can be tested without having to
[06:49] <ddaa> and I need to keep focus to make progress
[06:49] <flacoste> i meant "i would let you be the judge"
[06:49] <flacoste> fine
[06:49] <ddaa> Thank you.
[06:50] <flacoste> and I need food to make progress ;-)
[06:50] <flacoste> so, i'm off to lunch
[08:51] <lifeless> morning
[08:54] <laszlok> for some reason rosetta won't send me an email to download any translations? Bug maybe?
[09:06] <flacoste> OOPS-307S6
[09:06] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/307S6
[09:07] <flacoste> thx, ubugtu!
[09:07] <flacoste> lifeless: do you have staging access?
[09:14] <lifeless> yes
[09:14] <lifeless> whats up ?
[09:15] <lifeless> flacoste: do you work in the same office as matsubara ?
[09:15] <flacoste> nope, i'm the other side of the equator
[09:16] <flacoste> lifeless: the support tracker is broken on staging
[09:16] <ddaa> I need an instant review for a quasi-trivial cscvs patch
[09:16] <ddaa> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file7ILMmC.html
[09:16] <ddaa> flacoste: that's a patch to allow doing the stuff we just discussed
[09:16] <flacoste> it needs some data migration script to be run, and I think the automatic staging migration procedure doesn't run them
[09:16] <flacoste> ddaa: i'll review it in a moment
[09:17] <flacoste> lifeless: i've sent a message to stuart Cc launchpad about that
[09:17] <flacoste> i can also paste the script names here if you prefer
[09:19] <flacoste> ddaa: r=flacoste, it's a basic extract class refactoring
[09:20] <ddaa> *nod* I mostly wanted to get an okay for the docstring, since it looks like the bar has been set a bit higher recently.
[09:22] <lifeless> flacoste: if I run those now, I presume it will fix it. However the next update is in not too many hours, so I'm inclined to just let stub get to it, as I fly to UDS in 3 hours
[09:22] <lifeless> flacoste: is that ok ?
[09:23] <flacoste> lifeless: ok, it's better if it is fixed permanently
[09:23] <flacoste> lifeless: have a nice fly!
[09:23] <lifeless> thanks
[09:45] <mirak> hi
[09:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70141 in rosetta "ubuntu-docs templates are gone" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70141
[11:57] <jdong> is there someway/someone to debug when launchpad VCS imports don't work?
[11:58] <jdong> namely for https://launchpad.net/products/ktorrent/2.0
[11:58] <jdong> every time I register VCS details (KDE SVN), it reverts to blank after 24 hours
[11:59] <lifeless> hmm
[11:59] <lifeless> reverting to blank is bong
[11:59] <lifeless> ddaa is the king of imports
[11:59] <ddaa> hu
[11:59] <ddaa> jdong: I plead guilty
[12:00] <jdong> ddaa: any ideas on what could be going on?
[12:00] <ddaa> absolutely
[12:00] <jdong> love to hear that
[12:01] <ddaa> So, the UI sucks on many levels
[12:01] <ddaa> one of the suckage is that VCS details look like "informational vcs details"
[12:01] <ddaa> while actually it's input for our vcs-imports system
[12:01] <ddaa> another suckage is that we only support import from trunk branches
[12:02] <jdong> oh
[12:02] <ddaa> but it's not actually said anywhere in the UI
[12:02] <jdong> so it's not possible to import a svn branch then?
[12:02] <ddaa> it's absolutely possible
[12:02] <ddaa> that why the trunk details for ktorrent are not blanked
[12:03] <ddaa> but when the vcs-imports operators see an import request for a non-trunk branch, he blanks it away
[12:03] <ddaa> so I apologize flatly for repetitively blanking away your input
[12:04] <ddaa> and for the sucky UI that leads to this situation
[12:04] <lifeless> ddaa: well, why not leave it there as valid data
[12:04] <lifeless> ddaa: but just not approve it ?
[12:04] <ddaa> because it's going to go through autotest?
[12:04] <lifeless> ... and ... ? It fails. So what /
[12:04] <ddaa> And may actually succeed now (soon?) thanks to the improvements
[12:04] <ddaa> and then it will show up forever in my listing of imports to approve
[12:04] <ddaa> Well, I can actually poke the db to disable it...
[12:05] <lifeless> so? At least the use wont think lp is losing data.
[12:05] <jdong> ok, that kind of makes sense
[12:05] <lifeless> which must be a terrible feeling
[12:05] <ddaa> *nod*
[12:05] <jdong> so will launchpad in the future support tracking a non-trunk SVN branch?
[12:05] <lifeless> jdong: eventually, yes
[12:05] <ddaa> probably > 1 year though
[12:05] <jdong> ok
[12:05] <ddaa> jdong: okay, go on and fill the details agan
[12:06] <ddaa> I'll use my database superpowers to disable the import
[12:06] <jdong> ok
[12:06] <ddaa> lifeless: okay, I was caught red handed in act of laziness
[12:06] <ddaa> I won't do it again sir.
[12:07] <ddaa> But this sort of issue is one of the reasons why I think we should separate out imports from productseries...
[12:07] <jdong> ddaa: filled in
[12:08] <lifeless> ddaa: if it works as a branch, I'd argue we should approve it and let it through :). but thats a different discussion. Time for me to fly, see you in SF
[12:08] <ddaa> we should not, otherwise people may believe that bzr cannot merge usefully
[12:09] <ddaa> it's a shitty trade-off, I know
[12:10] <lifeless> ddaa: hmm, files that have a common heritage will have different pathids ?
[12:10] <lifeless> ddaa: thats the issue right ?
[12:10] <ddaa> cscvs only does random ids
[12:10] <ddaa> no common ancestry, no common file ids
[12:10] <lifeless> ddaa: yes, I know that :).
[12:11] <lifeless> yup, on the same page. Good call.
[12:11] <ddaa> and it's tricky to fix before bzr supports copy
[12:11] <ddaa> then, it's just difficult to fix, but not tricky
[12:11] <lifeless> bzr & copy should not be on the critical path for branch imports
[12:11] <lifeless> cause thats a long way off too. Tchau, I'm gonge
[12:11] <ddaa> it's on critical path for good branch imports
[12:12] <lifeless> well, its not even on the drawing board.
[12:12] <lifeless> (for bzr)
[12:12] <lifeless> *really gone*
[12:12] <ddaa> I do have a solution in mind which I think would be good.
[12:13] <ddaa> jdong: see, the Bazaar Status for ktorrent/2.0 is now "Do Not Sync"
[12:14] <jdong> cool
[12:14] <jdong> how magical :D
[12:14] <ddaa> my apologies again
[12:14] <jdong> no problem
[12:14] <jdong> just confusing until you told me what happened :D
[12:14] <ddaa> well, I just hoped it would stay below the background noise of confusion ;)