[00:11] <genoobie> hey all
[00:13] <genoobie> trying to install b43 bw43 fwcutter without usb
[00:13] <genoobie> I mean without internet
[00:13] <genoobie> so I can't apt-get
[00:15] <phillw> genoobie: didn't you get the off-line link from unit earlier today?
[00:15] <genoobie> yes
[00:15] <genoobie> but that's for 12.04
[00:16] <genoobie> I don't think the same applies to 13.04
[00:16] <genoobie> and under /cdrom/pool/main there's no "b"
[00:17] <genoobie> phillw: any tips?
[00:18] <phillw> genoobie: I've only ever added b43 with ethernet plugged in... please give me a few (as in 10 -15 minutes) to have a dig around for you.
[00:19] <genoobie> I'll keep digging too
[00:22] <phillw> genoobie: having had a quick look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2090138 getting said computer plugged into an ethernet link is by far the least painful method.
[00:22] <genoobie> yeah, I've found the b43-firmware extractor
[00:22] <genoobie> and I've got the b43 firmware
[00:22] <genoobie> I'll just put in the "b" directory
[00:23] <genoobie> and follow the directions from there
[00:23] <phillw> If you cannot, then I'd suggest following that thread and asking. You will not be the 1st person to have faced this and asking will really speed things up for you.
[00:24] <phillw> good, it's not our fault that we can have it on the live cd and not ship it when installing.  :: SIGH ::
[00:35] <phillw> genoobie: I've got to head for bed. Please do leave how you get on / if there are still issues. one of the support people will answer within 24 hours.
[00:45] <genoobie> okay
[00:45] <genoobie> using this link
[00:45] <genoobie> http://askubuntu.com/questions/304900/how-do-i-install-my-wireless-card-driver-offline
[00:52] <genoobie> do you have to sudo dkpg?
[00:54] <phillw> genoobie: yes, dpkg requires sudo before it... If you have just issued the command issue
[00:54] <phillw> sudo !!
[00:54] <phillw> to repeat the command with sudo at the start... I'm osrry that I will not be around for the remainder of your issue.
[00:54] <phillw> *sorry*
[00:59] <genoobie> I'm stuck
[00:59] <loobuntu> Hallo, I'm wondering, since I'm using a seperate /home partition, how big should the os part be? I'm going to install a lot of stuff like blender/vbox/libre/wine/-dev things... 40GB good? or should I go bigger, hmmm
[00:59] <genoobie> bb in a bit
[01:00] <loobuntu> oh rage, pidgin actually closed when i hit x instead of going to tray
[01:01] <ianorlin> of how big a drive?
[01:03] <loobuntu> I have a 500GB drive and I'd like as much as possible for /home, I know ubuntu can fit in 4GB stock, but after you install a lot that can blow up.
[01:04] <phillw> loobuntu: I'd suggest 10 GB for /
[01:05] <phillw> /dev/sda4       9.0G  5.4G  3.1G  64% /
[01:05] <phillw> that is my / partition and I do a lot of testing.
[01:07] <phillw> 9.0G avaialbe, 5.4 G free, 3.1 G being used.... As 10 GB is so small a percentage of 500GB, go for allocating that .02 % :D
[01:08] <loobuntu> I think I'll go for 30GB which is huge just so I can have a complete backup image of / stored in /...
[01:09] <loobuntu> I wish pidgin was more like quassel for irc so I could have 1 program fewer running...
[01:10] <phillw> loobuntu: as you wish, but 10GB is plenty. consider having a separate /home as a start of the journey... when you learn about LVM, it will open up a whole new world.
[01:12] <loobuntu> lubuntu reminds me of chromeos... which is funny since you switched to firefox... perhaps a red theme is in order now :P
[01:15] <phillw> loobuntu: lubuntu is a bit of a mix... it is cutting edge, but requires that it will run on old kit. This does mean that it runs like the wind on new kit. I loved it when I 1st got involved in 10.04, it is still my favourite.
[01:16] <loobuntu> I'm thinking of switiching from xubuntu, which is kinda slow moving... kinda... very
[01:16] <loobuntu> I cna't telll the difference between hardy and saucy xubuntu lol
[01:17] <phillw> the xubuntu people are also fantastic, we all born of the same family. I always ask people to try the family and then decide which suits them the best.
[01:17] <loobuntu> Do the lubuntu devs intentionally develop on limited hardware to force themselves to keep minimal? I kinda do that on software development, I cap cpu and ram so I can run fast on little
[01:18] <loobuntu> Kubuntu > lubuntu = xubuntu > ubuntu
[01:18] <loobuntu> :P
[01:18] <loobuntu> Although kubuntu is huge and breaks sometimes...
[01:19] <ianorlin> you cna install other irc clients with apt-get or lsc or synaptic
[01:19] <phillw> to a degree, yes. I used to write Qbasic with CDOS on a 286 processor so that when it went to 386 with multiple users, it would run fast... always stood me in good stead, and with every decision made for lxde such resources have to be taken into account.
[01:20] <loobuntu> Nowadays there's KVM, fire up a little one with various specs to see how things run. :)
[01:20] <loobuntu> Virtualbox really popular but sometimes buggy
[01:22] <phillw> kvm has issues! I use both
[01:23] <loobuntu> My servers use KVM... if they had issues I'd be in trouble
[01:23] <phillw> loobuntu: then do not accept the default video driver, you will get in trouble.
[01:24] <loobuntu> OI I found a bug... I can alt drag everything normally except for minesweeper, what an evil program
[01:26] <loobuntu> Hmm, I can't alt drag any of the games, I wonder what's doing that... game capping input of the alt key, or lxde
[01:26] <phillw> cirrus has a problem, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58574 (ubuntu bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1080674 )
[01:26] <loobuntu> solitaire works, it has a window border too
[01:27] <loobuntu> Oh lame, I'll have to change that before i try things on kvm
[01:29] <phillw> Yup, just a heads up.... I use VMVGA, just set it as you install.
[01:29] <loobuntu> I wonder if my IRL cirrus PCI card from... 92 or something, works lol
[01:31] <phillw> it was one of several hits that were taken. I did get a cherry pick from red-hat for another bug issue. This one is out of our hands at this moment.
[01:34] <phillw> by the way, loobuntu these discussions are best carried out on #lubuntu-offtopic as they are not directly related to the lubuntu release. Thanks.
[02:39] <genoobie> hey all
[02:39] <genoobie> anyone here?
[02:50] <ianorlin> yes
[02:52] <ianorlin> still the broadcom problem?
[06:32] <manik_> hello
[06:43] <manik_> can somebody help me, I want to switch back from openbox to default after rebooting
[06:43] <bioterror> what's default?
[06:45] <manik_> Lubuntu's lxde
[06:45] <manik_> Want to get that login window where we get to choose, I guess.
[06:59] <pepee> manik_, to choose the desktop environment?
[07:00] <pepee> lightdm?
[08:35] <philipballew> I want to add keymapping to Banshee so i can play pause the song when the app is minimized.  How can I turn my function keys into multimedia keys?
[15:15] <speckmade> trying to install from CD here
[15:16] <phillw> speckmade: have you run the self test on the CD?
[15:16] <speckmade> the live system has /dev/sda5 mounted under /cdrom and refuses to let it go
[15:16] <speckmade> oh - gonna do that, of course.
[15:16] <speckmade> but I wouldn't think it can come from damaged disc.
[15:17] <speckmade> /dev/sda5 is where I want to have /
[15:17] <speckmade> there's already an older version of Ubuntu on /dev/sda5
[15:17] <phillw> speckmade: *always* do the self test on the CD. Then we all know we have a good image.
[15:17] <speckmade> sure. just a minute.
[15:26] <speckmade> seems like hitting "check disc for errors" just gives me the boot animation forever
[15:26] <speckmade> the disc doesn't get accessed and spins down after a short while.
[15:26] <phillw> speckmade: my 1st thought therefore is that the disc is not 'good'.
[15:27] <phillw> do you have the ISO on hard-disk?
[15:27] <speckmade> I successfully installed from that very disc just two days ago...
[15:27] <speckmade> think so.
[15:27] <speckmade> checked the MD5 against the website
[15:28] <phillw> a disc can get damaged, also no two CD-Drives are quite the same....
[15:28] <phillw> Data CD's are for more 'picky' than audio ones are.
[15:30] <speckmade> sure - but such behaviour? what chance is there for something like that happening just from some randomness?
[15:30] <phillw> does the new computer that you want to install on have a working operating system that you can boot into?
[15:30] <speckmade> yes.
[15:30] <speckmade> the one I want to replace, for instance.
[15:31] <phillw> speckmade: fortunately very rare, but it does happen. that is why the 1st thing I wanted you to do was to confirm the CD is being read by the computer okay.
[15:32] <phillw> okies, boot into that system and let me know what version / arch you are using for the install so I can do the maths to give you the manual command to check the cD
[15:34] <speckmade> machine is 32 bit
[15:35] <phillw> what link did you get the ISO from?
[15:35] <speckmade> installed is (l)Ubuntu quantal
[15:35] <phillw> the one on the CD :)
[15:36] <speckmade> that one, I think: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/13.04/release/lubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso
[15:36] <speckmade> yeah - 13.04
[15:37] <phillw> speckmade: great, give me a few mins to do the maths.
[15:39] <phillw> speckmade: is 486d94f51b42b401ab72ca8fcedb2e97  lubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso
[15:39] <phillw>  the md5sum you expected?
[15:43] <phillw> if that is the ISO and expected md5sum, I've done the maths so you can manually test the CD from a working machine.
[15:47] <speckmade> yes
[15:48] <phillw> okies, pop the cd in. if pcmanfm opens it up, cancel that. Then open up a terminal session (LXTerminal)
[15:50] <phillw> dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 count=351744 | md5sum
[15:50] <speckmade> sure
[15:51] <speckmade> /dev/cdrom is not there, it's on /dev/sr0
[15:51] <speckmade> runnning...
[15:51] <phillw> that will force a read of the cdrom and spit out the md5sum. If it is not 486d94f51b42b401ab72ca8fcedb2e97 then the CD is no use on that computer
[15:52] <phillw> okies, it's usually /dev/cdrom. but where ever the cd mounts is okay :)
[15:53] <phillw> the blocksize of 2048 is the fastest that I  was told to use... using the default of blocksize=1 can take well over an hour!
[15:55] <speckmade> 486d94f51b42b401ab72ca8fcedb2e97
[15:56] <phillw> that looks good to me :)
[15:57] <speckmade> everything else would've been the easier diagnosis, eh?..
[15:57] <phillw> speckmade: in some ways, but having a good CD counts the most :)
[15:58] <speckmade> other things about the machine here:
[15:59] <phillw> I am assuming that you are familiar with partitions. Can you let tell me what size the /dev/sda5 partition is.
[16:00] <speckmade> harddisk might be getting old (SMART says it's good overall, but read error counter increases every minute - otherwise nothing wrong.)
[16:00] <phillw> from terminal...
[16:00] <phillw> df -h
[16:01] <phillw> I'd actually suggest using alterante image, but we can do this with desktop
[16:01] <speckmade> 185 GB
[16:01] <speckmade> sda5
[16:02] <phillw> do you need all that?!!! 10GB is enough for / and then use the remainder for /home :)
[16:02] <phillw> but, we'll go with that. what partition has your swap area?
[16:03] <speckmade> and then - there is random freezes and reboots sometimes... - maybe something wrong with the thermal grease.
[16:03] <speckmade> just a moment...
[16:03] <phillw> speckmade: sudo fdisk -l
[16:04] <speckmade> I either remember wrong things or the live system (13.04) told me the other one was sda5 ...
[16:04] <speckmade> well - it's like that:
[16:04] <speckmade> partition 1: 1.2 GiB swap
[16:05] <speckmade> 2: 1.2 GiB ext4 for a live system - irrelevant here.
[16:05] <speckmade> then extended partition
[16:05] <phillw> look for the partition that says "82  Linux swap / Solaris
[16:05] <phillw> " at the end of the line
[16:05] <speckmade> with two sub-partitions
[16:06] <phillw> live does not format up a swap partition, it will be there from the exisiting system.
[16:06] <speckmade> gnome-disks says there's first /dev/sda6 - that's root.
[16:06] <speckmade> and then there's the 185 GiB for /home
[16:07] <phillw> speckmade: from terminal, please issue the command
[16:07] <phillw> sudo fdisk -l
[16:07] <phillw> enter your password and look for where 82  Linux swap / Solaris is
[16:07] <speckmade> /dev/sda1   *        2048     2439167     1218560   82  Linux Swap / Solaris
[16:08] <phillw> Hmm, well I've never seen swap on the 1st primary partition before... but if that is what it says, it is not lying!
[16:09] <speckmade> so according to gnome-disks it's actually sda6 where I want to format and install
[16:09] <speckmade> yeah - my selfmade chaos.
[16:09] <speckmade> went well so far.
[16:10] <speckmade> thought I put it there because it's where the disk is fastest
[16:10] <phillw> swap usually lives on /dev/sda5 ... but each to themself :D
[16:11] <speckmade> root on extended was also fine so far.
[16:11] <phillw> okies, well me know where swap is... are you 100% sure where you want to install lubuntu? Once committed, there is no going back,
[16:12] <phillw> sad5 or sda6 ?
[16:12] <speckmade> root on the 12 GiB partition, /home on the 185
[16:12] <phillw> which are which... write them down!
[16:13] <speckmade> fdisk and gnome-disks agree that the big one is 5 and the 12 GiB one is 6 ...
[16:13] <speckmade> I just think I remember something else from the live system the minute ago...
[16:13] <phillw> okies, I take it that you do not want to re-format /home and lose all the data on there?
[16:14] <speckmade> I don't want to format /home , of course.
[16:14] <speckmade> yes.
[16:14] <phillw> then when we manually apply the partitions, ensure the "format me" box does not have a 'X' in it!
[16:15] <speckmade> I surely did so!.. :-)
[16:16] <speckmade> but then it thought that the CD was sitting where I wanted to format for the root dir...
[16:17] <speckmade> I wonder if i should file a bug somewhere - but so far I don't understand what's happening.
[16:18] <phillw> speckmade: let me just set up a precise VM so I can follow the sequence...
[16:19] <speckmade> My next idea would be installing from the internet with the mini.iso via Unetbootin.
[16:19] <speckmade> dunno what you have in mind...
[16:20] <speckmade> but I also like to understand what is happening with the live system
[16:20] <speckmade> and whether I could give interesting bug reports...
[16:20] <speckmade> If you wanna try something else I'll do it gladly, I think.
[16:21] <speckmade> (It's also fun to learn other things... :-) )
[16:21] <phillw> I'm just scrambling up a VM with precise installer.
[16:21] <phillw> I've not actually used it with desktop for a while...
[16:21] <speckmade> I'd be installing raring...
[16:22] <phillw> which one do you want to install?
[16:22] <speckmade> raring
[16:22] <phillw> okies... a couple of moments while I se-set :)
[16:22] <speckmade> isn't it raring?..
[16:23] <speckmade> 13.04
[16:23] <phillw> yes, I'm running saucy. but I'll kick one in
[16:23] <speckmade> yes, 13.04 - Raring Ringtail
[16:23] <speckmade> that'd be 13.10?
[16:24] <phillw> that's good, I still have a desktop raring system here :)
[16:25] <speckmade> also thought about beta testing - but that one is kinda for productive use.
[16:25] <speckmade> though the new software in 13.04 makes my life easier - so no LTS.
[16:27] <phillw> speckmade: okies, the VM is just firing up... Can you boot with your CD and let's see how we get on.
[16:27] <speckmade> sure.
[16:29] <speckmade> so - we want the live system - not "install lubuntu"?
[16:29] <phillw> as you want to install.... choose that one :)
[16:30] <speckmade> oh - guess what it does?
[16:30] <speckmade> it really boots - from harddisk - somehow!
[16:30] <speckmade> that's why it has sda5 as /cdrom .
[16:31] <phillw> sda5 cannot be cdrom!
[16:31] <phillw> well, not unless you've been doing crazy things under /dev
[16:31] <speckmade> yes - but it is treating it as if the cdrom was there.
[16:31] <speckmade> CD is not spinning
[16:31] <speckmade> harddisk is making noises
[16:32] <speckmade> it's taking ages to boot - just like it usually does when booting from CD
[16:32] <speckmade> and now there is the desktop
[16:32] <phillw> check your BIOS and ensure you have not accidently demoted CD drive to below hard disk in the priorites.
[16:32] <speckmade> but definately not the one from the 12.10 on the harddisk
[16:33] <speckmade> I get the boot menu from CD, you know...
[16:33] <speckmade> select german language
[16:33] <speckmade> and then "Try lubuntu without installing"
[16:34] <phillw> choose that one...
[16:34] <speckmade> or "install lubuntu" - to a similar effect.
[16:34] <speckmade> did so
[16:34] <speckmade> now I have a desktop booted
[16:34] <phillw> top left of the screen will be the option to install lubuntu
[16:35] <speckmade> all with the Ubiquity "install" button
[16:35] <speckmade> yes
[16:35] <speckmade> still it has booted from sda somehow
[16:35] <phillw> how much RAM do you have?
[16:35] <speckmade> 1 GiB
[16:35] <speckmade> mount says:
[16:36] <speckmade> /dev/sda6 on /cdrom
[16:37] <speckmade> you say there is usually swap back there? maybe it's looking for useable swap on the HD and ends up finding Ubuntu and booting from there somehow?..
[16:37] <speckmade> that's so weird...
[16:37] <phillw> open up the browser and listen for cd activity
[16:38] <phillw> nvm
[16:38] <speckmade> /dev/sr0 - the actual CD drive - is mounted under /media/lubuntu/Lubuntu
[16:38] <phillw> do you have the Installation Type window on the machine?
[16:39] <phillw> brb, boot the CD and go into 'Try Lubuntu' so we are both on the same screen.
[16:39] <speckmade> what do you mean - the "overwrite Ubuntu", "overwrite everything, "something else" thing?
[16:39] <phillw> something else :D
[16:40] <phillw> As we are doing something else....
[16:40] <speckmade> that's where I am. I cuold start Ubiquity now.
[16:40] <speckmade> yes - gonna go there.
[16:40] <phillw> you are already running ubiquity.... :D
[16:40] <speckmade> I just think I already know the effect...
[16:41] <phillw> Well, let us set it up as per what you have notes for...
[16:41] <speckmade> no - now I am.
[16:42] <speckmade> so here I am right after the "something else" in the partitioning step.
[16:42] <phillw> okies, you should now see a list of all the partitons.
[16:42] <speckmade> it's suggesting sdb for bootloader o.O
[16:43] <speckmade> sure.
[16:43] <speckmade> everything like fdisk told.
[16:43] <speckmade> and the gnome-thingy
[16:44] <speckmade> so now I'd select sda6, hit "change"
[16:45] <speckmade> select "format", use as ext4 on /
[16:45] <phillw> So, click on /dev/sda6 hit change, set it to be /home and set it as not to be formatted :D
[16:45] <speckmade> then have sda5 as ext4 on /home - without formatting
[16:45] <speckmade> the other way round.
[16:46] <phillw> (17:13:16) speckmade: fdisk and gnome-disks agree that the big one is 5 and the 12 GiB one is 6 ...
[16:46] <phillw> go check your own notes.....
[16:47] <phillw> oops, yeah. sda5 is home!
[16:47] <phillw> sda6 is to /
[16:47] <phillw> (select format)
[16:47] <phillw> and sda1 is swap (select format)
[16:48] <speckmade> yes - that's what I tried to do already.
[16:48] <phillw> then apply all the changes
[16:49] <speckmade> so now I hit "install" (german here - so dunno what you see exactly)
[16:49] <phillw> Yup, Install now ...
[16:50] <speckmade> now there's this unavoidable message popping up: "unable to unmount" or so.
[16:50] <phillw> Grrr, I've had this before.
[16:50] <speckmade> "has to perform changes to partition tables"
[16:51] <speckmade> "following mount points .. unable to unmount: /cdrom"
[16:51] <speckmade> "please close all..."
[16:51] <speckmade> "want to try again?"
[16:52] <speckmade> can't close that blocking program, obviously - because strangely it happens to be the live system...
[16:53] <speckmade> how come it boots from HD here?
[16:53] <speckmade> what's it actually doing, exactly?.. o.O
[16:54] <speckmade> I guess the mini.iso method should work - but - just what is happening here?..
[16:55] <speckmade> what did you have before?
[16:55] <speckmade> the thing I'm telling you about?
[16:56] <speckmade> are there interesting parallels to discover that could tell why it happens?
[16:56] <speckmade> could it be an interesting report for somebody?
[16:56] <phillw> speckmade: not 100% sure... I'm an alternate install person. I was hoping a desktop person would have arrived. 32 bit alternate can be grabbed from http://phillw.net/isos/lubuntu/raring/release/
[16:57] <speckmade> yeah - would be pretty much the same thing as my mini.iso method.
[16:57] <phillw> it seems a crazy it happens and then does not bug. It is known about, and has been reported. Just trying to get it to repeat is a pain.
[16:58] <speckmade> so I could be useful for somebody?
[16:58] <phillw> alternate is faster as it has the stuff you need already there.
[16:58] <speckmade> so far I can reliably reproduce it.
[16:59] <speckmade> yes - but I need to download anyways and with the mini.iso I don't have to get and waste another cd.
[16:59] <speckmade> can you give me hints on where to find such a bug report?
[17:00] <phillw> Once we get the final beta out of the way (Thursday) do give me a dig in the ribs. I'll ask for what the bug number is. It does seem a ubiquity issue, but for raring it is not tooo likely that it will be SRU'd as it only has 4 months left  to live.
[17:01] <ianorlin> this may be good for one of the people that has this problem to try and see if it happens with saucy
[17:01] <phillw> ianorlin: you took the words out of my mouth :D
[17:01] <speckmade> so I'll  I try with 13.10 beta and see if it's till there.
[17:02] <speckmade> so now I install with mini.iso and hope it doesn't interfere with being able to reproduce the thing later..?
[17:02] <phillw> speckmade: that'd be really good, if you could.
[17:02] <speckmade> lovely. :-)
[17:03] <speckmade> It's nice spending time on such shit, if you get the impression that you are helping to resolve it once an for all. :-)
[17:04] <speckmade> I want to go to Norway soon - but I'll see what I can do.
[17:04] <phillw> speckmade: you can get more details of lubuntu testers at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing Feel free to join the mailing list, I'll approve you as soon as I see the request.
[17:04] <speckmade> so - thanks for the time so far.
[17:04] <speckmade> oh - me and email...
[17:04] <speckmade> :-/
[17:08] <phillw> speckmade: just as a very minor nag... please do be cautious of colourful language. this channel is fully logged and as it can also be accessed by young people, we are asked not to use words that could offend their parents... Yeah, I know the kids swear worse than that - But rules is rules :)
[17:10] <speckmade> oh.
[17:11] <speckmade> I've been watching some outh Park lately...
[17:12] <speckmade> oh!:
[17:13] <speckmade> "Unetbootin is presently installed. Remove existing version?"
[17:13] <speckmade> maybe it has to do with that!
[17:13] <speckmade> gonna check...
[17:19] <speckmade> indeed
[17:19]  * ianorlin might try and reproduce this
[17:19] <speckmade> now it boots from the CD
[17:20] <speckmade> ianorlin: where you able to follow? You know Unetbootin and what "Unetbootin is installed" means in this context?
[17:23] <speckmade> yeah. now Ubiquity is working as expected. My system is nearly there...
[17:29] <phillw> speckmade: to every odd thing that happens, there is... eventually.. an answr :)
[17:43] <pedrin2> hi, please i need help with driver wifi
[17:43] <pedrin2> i can't run internet with netbook packard bell easynote n65
[17:44] <pedrin2> i download this archive's: compat-wireless-2012-05-10
[17:45] <pedrin2> but i don't know why not make driver (sorry i don' speak English))
[17:45] <pedrin2> can any help me?
[17:51] <pedrin2> i try with madwifi
[18:00] <ianorlin> hmm wierd problem hitting reboot on a 64 bit raring live cd doesn't work
[18:01] <ianorlin> but it booted to live fine
[18:06]  * ianorlin still has an installed version though
[18:25] <phillw> ianorlin: that is a known bug for saucy, was not aware it could affect raring...
[18:26] <phillw> ianorlin: can you post up uname -a for your kernel.
[18:35] <ianorlin> on the livecd?
[18:36] <ianorlin> that didn't reboot right
[18:37] <Unit193> phillw: Install systemd-shim, logout issue fixed.
[18:40] <ianorlin> this is only on the livecd not the installed version
[18:47] <ianorlin> linux 3.8.0-19 #29 ubuntu Wed apl 17th x86-64 x86-64 x86-64 Gnu/Linux
[18:47] <ianorlin> the one on the live cd
[18:54] <kristal_> Antone notice a lot of qt apps don't show up when launched from the menu in 13.10
[18:57] <kristal> Man that's weird, some kde apps don't launch from the menu, but from terminal, no problem... hmm
[19:16] <phillw> kristal: lubuntu 13.10 is not Qt compliant yet. Most of the work will be done for 14.04 via lxde
[19:21] <phillw> kristal: http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE-Qt
[19:22] <kristal> Well everything works, but whcn launched from the menu, the winodw doesn't show up, but it does launched from term
[19:22] <kristal> It's like the launcher itself has a bug
[19:24] <phillw> kristal: maybe the launcher has not yet been told "about" Qt. There was only so much that could be done in time for 13.10
[19:24] <Unit193> kristal: What'e the Exec line?
[19:25] <kristal> where does the menu store it's entries, i assume it isn't the default debian ones
[19:25] <Unit193> /usr/share/applications/
[19:25] <kristal> I bet kde things will launch jsut fine if fire off differently
[19:25] <Unit193> Sure, it's just a program, should work fine.
[19:26] <kristal> so /usr/share/applications is just shortcuts and the kde apps launch from there just fine, hmm, but not the menu
[19:27] <kristal> how do i get stdio from the lxde menu so I can see i it's giving errors
[19:28] <Unit193> You checked in ~/.xsession-errors ?
[19:28] <kristal> no errors there
[19:29] <kristal> just Script for cjkv started at run_im. Script for default started at run_im. So that's ok, or failing silently.
[19:30] <Unit193> Could always open a terminal and  lxpanelctl restart, but you'd lose the panel if you closed the terminal.
[19:30] <kristal> well, might as well try that
[19:31] <Unit193> I have a couple Qt applications, no issues.
[19:33] <kristal> well if i restart lxpanel from terminal, it doesn't stay hooked to terminal, i jsut get an error report and it restarts
[19:34] <Unit193> Meh, you can try and kill it then  lxpanel --profile Lubuntu
[19:34] <Unit193> Or, you can ignore it and use tint2. :D
[19:35] <kristal> uhh, lxpanelctl does not give any response to --help -help -hurrrrrrrrrr
[19:35] <kristal> It's quiet
[19:36] <kristal> oh well, man works as always
[19:37] <kristal> bam got it
[19:37] <kristal> kmines: '<caption>' missing.
[19:37] <kristal> kmines: Use --help to get a list of available command line options.
[19:37] <kristal> knetwalk: '<caption>' missing.
[19:37] <kristal> knetwalk: Use --help to get a list of available command line options.
[19:37] <kristal> wow, it refuses to launch because of optional field is empty
[19:37] <kristal> Yup, that be a little bug.
[19:38] <kristal> Can anyone replicate on 13.10?
[19:50] <phillw> kristal: I've just got the final-beta downloaded, I'll be trying it on a VM
[20:04] <kristal> I got my 13.10 iso from daily yesterday, all up to date. Kinda funny how everything seems to work except for some menu items.
[20:30] <phillw> kristal: grab today's, it is the final beta release... use zsync if you have the iso already on your computer.
[20:30] <kristal> phillw: Everything is up to date for me, just fug'd
[20:31] <phillw> iso dated 23rd Sept?
[20:31] <kristal> it was 22, but that doesn't matter if you jsut upgrade everything
[20:32] <phillw> not for testing an ISO it is not, I think they squeaked a new kernel in there :)
[20:32] <kristal> which you running?
[20:33] <phillw> I'll let you know when it installs :)
[20:33] <phillw> it's only be out for a few hours.
[20:34] <kristal> I wonder is the lowlatency kernel is better
[20:35] <phillw> I think it is a .8 kernel, which does not have the zram fix of 7-generic #14~lp1227202v1
[20:35] <phillw> but, it is what is in the test beta, so that is what we have to test :D
[20:35] <kristal> I'm on linux-image-3.11.0-8-generic
[20:36] <phillw> kristal: that does not have the fix for bug 1227202
[20:37] <Unit193> !rt| phillw
[20:38] <Unit193> Nothing else differs.
[20:39] <phillw> Unit193: the kernel build from jospeh of ubuntu-kernel actually has the patch in.... I'm not quite sure what RT kernel has to do with zram being borked in 3.11 kernels?
[20:40] <Unit193> lowlatency kernel, it's real time kernel, the difference is it's lowlat otherwise it follows the default kernel.
[20:41] <phillw> Unit193: and that explains what about zram being broken in 3.11 kernel?
[20:41] <phillw> sorry if I'm being dense.
[20:41] <kristal> I heard it's broken in 10, not very good in 11 and completely fixed in 12
[20:42] <phillw> kristal: it was fine up until 10.6, broken in 11 - but backport available and fixed in .12rc
[20:42] <Unit193> .11 had several commits on it, wasn't really following along, more interested in zswap. :P
[20:44] <kristal> SteamOS... it's HABBENING, LINUX GAMING MAINSTREAM
[20:45] <phillw> jonathan and Unit193 did not have time to complete a spin of a lubuntu ISO in the very limited time. So, the final beta goes out for testing with a known serious bug that will affect low RAM machines that use swap and also http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2162655&page=3 it's just a pain that it gets realised as to the 'funnies' this late in the cycle.
[20:45] <Unit193> Well, meh.
[20:45] <phillw> c'est la vie.
[20:45] <Unit193> #lubuntu-offtopic still exists too.
[20:46] <kristal> Lubuntu not busy enough for 2 channels, yet... SOON... SOON...
[20:46] <phillw> Unit193: and when discussing a bug, I think #lubuntu is a fair channel. I will, however bow to your irc'ness and move there :)


[00:01] <LOJAC> ubuntu member
[00:01] <jpds> Link to your Launchpad page please.
[00:04] <LOJAC> https://launchpad.net/~lojac
[00:20] <nalioth> ubottu: tell LOJAC about member
[00:33] <LOJAC> I am a member in Louisiana
[00:42] <bazhang> of a LOCO?
[00:46] <LOJAC> yes
[00:46] <bazhang> not the same
[00:52] <LOJAC> no big deal then.....
[06:43] <fabrice_sp> Hi. I've just been added to u-c-d group and I'd like to have an Ubuntu cloak. My profile is there: https://launchpad.net/~fabricesp
[06:44] <fabrice_sp> hope it's the right channel for that
[06:44] <Myrtti> fabrice_sp: you're an ubuntu member?
[06:44] <Myrtti> oh, right, there
[06:45] <Myrtti> could you make sure you've got alternate nick grouped to your primary one?
[06:45] <fabrice_sp> Myrtti, i've done it a few minutes ago :-)
[06:45] <fabrice_sp> added fabrice_sp_ and fabrice_sp__
[06:46] <Myrtti> nalioth, Pricey ^
[06:50] <fabrice_sp> thanks Myrtti
[06:50] <fabrice_sp> :-)
[09:35] <bazhang> hmm less evil feeling here for some reason
[09:35] <Garfeild> bazhang: hello ;)
[09:36] <bazhang> Garfeild, hi! )
[10:41] <jester-> hi
[10:43] <Garfeild> re
[15:22] <bazhang> o/
[15:23] <Garfeild> (^_^)
[18:16] <vall> ciao
[18:16] <vall> !list
[18:17] <Myrtti> vall: hello. can we help you with something?
[18:18] <jester-> vall: hai sbagliato canale
[18:36] <LjL> ************ CIAO A TUTTI ********************
[18:36] <LjL> !list
[18:36] <LjL> !help
[18:36] <LjL> ^______^
[18:36] <LjL>  /quit
[18:37] <LjL> XD
[18:37] <LjL> lol.
[18:37] <Myrtti> LjL: I can in my imagination how you used the italian tricolori on that CIAO A TUTTI one
[18:38] <LjL> yeah couldn't be arsed using color codes
[18:38] <LjL> pretend i did
[18:38] <Myrtti> LjL: I wouldn't know, now, would I
[18:39] <Myrtti> since the channel is +x
[18:39] <Myrtti> er
[18:39] <Myrtti> +c
[18:39] <ubot4> Factoid 'c' not found
[18:39] <ubot2> Factoid 'c' not found
[18:39] <LjL> meh, bots
[18:44] <jester-> LjL: non faccimoci riconoscere dai
[18:44] <jester-> facciamoci*


[08:28] <opaquish> hello ppl
[08:30] <opaquish> anybody out there?
[08:36] <opaquish> no chit chat seems to go on in the room
[08:36] <opaquish> queer
[08:37] <maco> it's not a chat channel
[08:37] <maco> plus, it's a weekend
[08:37] <maco> *and* the middle of the night in the US and oh-god-early in europe
[08:37] <opaquish> :)
[08:38] <opaquish> i am new here
[08:38] <maco> woah its nearly 4am...
[08:38] <maco> and you're interested helping out with kernel...stuff?
[08:38] <opaquish> i have a few questions in my mind, but i don't know how to get attention of somebody that can answer
[08:39] <maco> step one would be to ask during business hours
[08:39] <maco> if its something only a kernel engineer can answer
[08:39] <opaquish> no i think everyone in this room can answer
[08:39] <maco> (most of the kernel team does it as their job-job)
[08:40] <opaquish> interesting
[08:41] <opaquish> so are you interested in my questions, or are you enough telling me about kernel team
[08:41] <opaquish> (which i apreciate)
[08:41] <maco> sure, ask
[08:42] <opaquish> i am running maverick
[08:42] <opaquish> and need a low latency or rt kernel
[08:42] <opaquish> for recording audio
[08:43] <opaquish> can i use an rt kernel of lucid for example?
[08:44] <maco> there's a chance of it working
[08:44] <maco> but there's also a chance of various other things getting wonky
[08:44] <maco> so, give it a try and see how it is?
[08:45] <opaquish> or maybe i should install ubuntu studio lucid , i just installed a fresh maverick (didn't update yet)
[08:46] <opaquish> which way would you advice?
[08:46] <maco> ubuntu studio lucid
[08:46] <maco> plus, its long term support
[08:48] <opaquish> what do i miss by downgrading? (it sounds bad)
[08:48] <opaquish> (how noob does it seem:)
[08:49] <maco> umm...some indicator menus...and ability to pay for stuff in software center
[08:50] <opaquish> downgraded! thanks for advice
[08:50] <opaquish> cust curious where were you?
[08:50] <maco> dc
[08:50] <opaquish> good night to dc then!
[08:51] <opaquish> thx again see you
[18:38] <happyaron> Hi, I have a problem with natty kernel, that is I have audio ouput working, but input not working. This problem didn't exist with 2.6.36 kernel. Here is my alsa-info.sh output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/531296/
[19:13] <happyaron> filed bug 674952, thanks
[19:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 674952 in linux (Ubuntu) "natty kernel doesn't work with voice input by microphone (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674952


[00:00] <mrooney|w> do you happen to know off-hand if the trend has been towards more or less?
[00:00] <slangasek> mrooney|w: I doubt there's a clear trend; we always stuff as many langpacks on as we can, some releases we manage more, some we manage fewer
[00:00] <slangasek> overall the trend is probably towards "less"
[00:00] <mrooney|w> I'm interested to know to know if Ubuntu is getting bigger or smaller over timem when you subtract the langpacks from the 700MB
[00:00] <mrooney|w> ah ok
[00:04] <RainCT> Survived the reboot with GDM not showing up unless being started manually and /etc/resolv.conf getting "nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>" as content.
[00:05] <RainCT> No visible speed change (forgot to do a benchmark before, will get one now), and I've also seen this: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1502/10092009118.jpg
[00:05] <RainCT> although maybe the ML would be a better place to say all this :P
[00:06] <bluefoxicy> http://static.arstechnica.com/windows_linux_bb_9.png
[00:06] <bluefoxicy> I can't figure out how "hundreds of updates a month" are hard to maintain in the context of Ubuntu specifically
[00:07] <RainCT> bluefoxicy: Why do you even look at such stuff? :)
[00:07] <bluefoxicy> this is a direct lie and false advertisement, even out of context.  In context, ... we're talking about netbooks, aimed at end-users in freaking Best Buy, who just turn on Automatic Updates in whatever OS they use.
[00:08] <bluefoxicy> RainCT:  Actually what's interesting me here is that encouraging the dissemination of false information about a specific business competitor by a third party may be slander, unethical, and illegal.
[00:09] <bluefoxicy> Microsoft basically directly attacked Canonical, LTD with libelous written-word falsehoods and encouraged a third party to repeat the written word as slanderous spoken word in a false advertisement campaign.
[00:10] <mdz> mathiaz, not necessarily, but I think you should ask him for help diagnosing whether it is an apt bug or a packaging bug (and what the problem is exactly)
[00:38] <TheMuso> slangasek: If you deny an FFE, what do you usually set the bug to? I am responding to the alsa FFe, and don't think its worthwhile at this time, and I want to be sure the status is consistant with other denied FFes.
[00:39]  * TheMuso will just use wont fix for now.
[00:40] <slangasek> TheMuso: didn't I already mark that 'wontfix'?
[00:41] <TheMuso> slangasek: don't know, I am just responding to bug mail as I go through it. If you did already, then sorry. :)
[01:01] <Riddell> jdstrand: I've no plans to upload qt4, did you do your upload?
[01:10] <ScottK> Riddell: I saw it recently listed as building in their PPA
[05:49] <liw> is there any chance that the gdu-notification-daemon dialog can be shut up so it doesn't uselessly whine at me every time I log in?
[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[07:02] <pitti> Good morning
[07:02] <pitti> kirkland: test .dmrc> just select a different session (like "xterm") or a different keyboard layout and check ~/.dmrc that it has the setting afterwards (and that it exists in the first place)
[07:03] <pitti> kirkland: will look at the bug and comment there; thanks for working on this!
[07:20] <dholbach> is anybody else waiting for a upload confirmation of LP too?
[07:22] <pitti> I'm waiting for LP to display my bugs, or file one
[07:22] <pitti> it keeps timing out
[07:33] <dholbach> pitti: * spm has changed the topic to: ** Launchpad Is Having Issues atm ** | [.......]
[07:34] <spm> pitti: dholbach: fwiw, edge appears unaffected, only lpmain seems to be having woes.
[07:34] <pitti> hm, not really
[07:35] <pitti> filing a bug on edge times out as well
[07:35] <spm> heh. I'll rephrase - I have a sea of nagios red on lpmain; not on edge :-)
[07:35]  * dholbach goes back to all the emails he wanted to write for a longer while
[07:36] <dholbach> pitti: how can I submit a crash report to LP later on?
[07:36] <dholbach> I just got "502: bad gateway"
[07:36] <pitti> spm: heh, ok; so then I'll just hope that fixing production will magically fix edge, too :)
[07:37] <pitti> dholbach: cancel, and then click on /var/crash/... in nautilus or ubuntu-bug /var/crash/... later on
[07:37] <spm> pitti: you and me both... :-)
[07:37] <dholbach> pitti: thanks, I'll do that
[07:37] <dholbach> it's funny: LP is broken, then I decide to do emails, then evo crashes on me and I can't send the crash report in
[07:37] <dholbach> seems like I should do something completely different today
[07:38] <dholbach> I know it sounds a bit like "my dog ate my homework" :)
[07:38] <pitti> dholbach: same for me; I was supposed to debug an X hang on suspend, and kernel -10 broke suspend
[07:38] <liw> dholbach, I had that happen once in school
[07:39] <liw> dholbach, although it happened to the teacher
[07:39]  * StevenK tries to convince edge to talk nicely to him
[07:39] <dholbach> liw: the dog's teacher ate your homework? sounds like you were on the safe side then and nobody could accuse you of shamelessly lying :)
[07:39] <liw> dholbach, yes :)
[07:40] <liw> the whole class's homework, to be exact
[07:40] <StevenK> Haha, way cool
[07:40] <dholbach> nice :)
[07:44] <YokoZar> What package has the "system restart required" notifier?
[07:44] <YokoZar> I don't think it's update manager
[07:44] <dholbach> update-notifier
[07:44] <YokoZar> thanks dholbach
[07:49] <YokoZar> dholbach: actually I'm not sure that's it either.  I'm talking about the actual "System restart required.  In order to complete the update of your system, it needs to be restarted.  Until you do so, security updates..."
[07:49] <YokoZar> grepping through update-notifier and update-manager doesn't give me that as a string anywhere :(
[07:50] <dholbach> you mean the upgrade from one distro release to another?
[07:50] <YokoZar> No like after you install a kernel update
[07:50] <slangasek> no, it is update-notifier
[07:51] <YokoZar> hmm maybe I'm looking wrong
[07:51] <slangasek> the strings are provided by the individual packages
[07:51] <dholbach> daniel@miyazaki:~/update-notifier-0.87$ grep -ri restart * | wc -l
[07:51] <dholbach> 125
[07:51] <dholbach> daniel@miyazaki:~/update-notifier-0.87$
[07:51] <dholbach> there's a lot of restart in there :)
[07:53] <\sh> where is the gnome .desktop entry gone after latest karmic updates? ;)
[07:55] <pitti> \sh: you mean the gnome session in gdm?
[07:55] <\sh> pitti: yepp
[07:55] <pitti> \sh: sounds like bug 426800
[07:55] <YokoZar> ah, found it in the .ui dialog
[07:56] <YokoZar> I guess this makes sense
[07:57] <\sh> pitti: ihh...sounds like removing xfce will bring it back then...
[07:58] <superm1> \sh, just xubuntu-default-settings for now
[07:58] <superm1> once the proper solution is in place for gdm to use default.desktop, those hacks can be dropped on mythbuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-default-settings
[08:01] <\sh> superm1: I wanted to remove xubuntu anyways..cause I don't use it .. just installed it earlier to test something...
[08:02] <ivoks> pitti: hi! around?
[08:04] <pitti> ivoks: hey
[08:04] <ogra> Keybuk, ??
[08:04] <pitti> superm1: second-next on my list
[08:04] <ivoks> pitti: hey, regarding bug 426652
[08:04] <ivoks> pitti: you've acked the upload
[08:04] <pitti> right after unbreaking DVD builds
[08:06] <ivoks> pitti: there's an issue with compression level of orig.tar.gz in ubuntu's package; so, if you could upload it manually, that would be great :)
[08:08] <pitti> oh, fakesync?
[08:09] <ivoks> don't know what fakesync is :/
[08:09] <StevenK> spm: Edge now gives 'please try again' immeadiately
[08:10] <spm> StevenK: yes
[08:10] <StevenK> spm: Oh, so you know. Okay. :-)
[08:10] <spm> :-)
[08:10] <spm> yes. sorrry. terse atm :-)
[08:15] <pitti> ivoks: -ENOLAUNCHPAD, sorry; can you assign it to me and ask for a fakesync in the bug?
[08:19] <pitti> ivoks: (later on, I mean, when it comes back)
[08:26] <ivoks> pitti: sure
[08:26] <spm> ** launchpad should be back to normal now **
[08:27] <slangasek> whee
[08:28] <slangasek> spm: thanks :)
[08:28] <pitti> spm: merci
[08:31] <pitti> oh, now going offline?
[08:31] <cjwatson> pitti: I think I already muttered about fakesync when denying the archive admin request in that bug
[08:32] <pitti> ivoks: ah, I get the bug now; doing
[08:32] <ivoks> pitti: awesome, thanks!
[08:43] <seb128> shrug, edge is not able to reassign bugs since yesterday
[08:43] <seb128> it keeps timeouting
[08:47] <seb128> bah, edge keeps timeouting and that drops the comments I write when going back
[08:48] <seb128> very annoying
[08:48]  * seb128 switches to non edge
[09:08] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: language-selector gnome and qt are so incredibly different, it's not even funny
[09:10]  * pitti chuckles
[09:10] <pitti> $ sudo service network-manager start
[09:10] <pitti> Rather than invoking init scripts through /etc/init.d, use the service(8)
[09:10] <pitti> utility, e.g. service network-manager start
[09:10] <pitti> Keybuk: hmm... ^ want a bug for that somewhere?
[09:11] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: I know. And I'm trying to port some of the functionality from the gnome to the qt version
[09:13] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: IMHO the qt thing needs a complete rewrite
[09:13] <apachelogger> it's ab abomination of Qt
[09:14] <slangasek> pitti: hmm, and does it know not to spit that out when called from rc?
[09:19] <pitti> slangasek: I didn't see those on boot, but then again it's made very quiet by default
[09:19]  * slangasek nods
[09:23] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: I won't be able to do that as I have no idea about qt or pyqt. I just want the combobox for input method choosing to get in.
[09:24]  * apachelogger aint got no idea about python :D
[09:24] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: combobox population implemented, moving on to applying the setting
[09:25] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: is my description in the mail enough for you to understand what's going on?
[09:26] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: sure :)
[09:26] <soren> Is there a 64 bit equivalent to htonl?
[09:26] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: thanks a lot for helping out :)
[09:55] <slangasek> pitti: <blink> I'm cc:ed on this mail because... I filed bad FFe requests? :-)
[09:56] <pitti> slangasek: heh, no; "CC" FYI, not because it's aimed at you :)
[10:16] <slangasek> pitti: huh, how were you able to conclude that quickly that bug #427224 was bugfix-only?
[10:16] <pitti> slangasek: I read the upstream changelog
[10:16] <slangasek> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31581311/pulseaudio-changelog.txt?
[10:17] <slangasek> half of those one-liners are completely opaque to me, so I have no idea if they're bugfixes :/
[10:18] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: btw, did you take a look at making kde langpacks depend on kde-l10n-$code? Riddell said that youd give that a shot IIRC
[10:18] <pitti> hm, they mostly sounded like code cleanup; and it's just rc -> final, too, and TheMuso also said it's just bug fixes
[10:19] <slangasek> ah, so he did
[10:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: recommend I think rather than depend
[10:19] <apachelogger> something default-installish at least :D
[10:23] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: it's in the latest language-selector code. please give it a try. when starting up, l-s should give a message about missing packages for the given language. the check should include several kde related packages now.
[10:24] <apachelogger> Missing: ['kde-l10n-engb', 'gnome-user-guide-en', 'kde-l10n-es', 'language-pack-gnome-es', 'gnome-user-guide-es', 'openoffice.org-l10n-es']
[10:24] <apachelogger> sweet
[10:24]  * apachelogger hugs ArneGoetje
[10:24] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: see data/pkg_depends in the source tree
[10:31] <StevenK> ArneGoetje: We will just sync the new ibus into karmic?
[10:33] <slangasek> StevenK: the new upstream version?
[10:35] <StevenK> slangasek: At this point, just trying to figure out the plan, so ... maybe?
[10:40] <ArneGoetje> StevenK: I think so. Unless you have any reason not to do so...
[10:41] <StevenK> ~,
[10:42] <apachelogger> mvo: bzr upgraded the app-install-data-ubuntu branch, should now be a bit faster :)
[10:43] <apachelogger> good thing that bzr2 is supposed to handle large histories better
[10:44] <mvo> apachelogger: wehh, great :)
[10:44] <mvo> apachelogger: many thanks (also for your work on software-store!)
[10:44] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: lp:~apachelogger/language-selector/karmic-qt++ merge r273..274
[10:44] <apachelogger> mvo: I didn't do work on software-store?
[10:45] <mvo> apachelogger: eh, typo - software-properties
[10:45] <mvo> apachelogger: my fingers auto-complete software- to software-store these days it seems ;)
[10:46] <apachelogger> oh, yeah, that also needs some more love still :)
[10:46] <apachelogger> work all over the place, but fist utf8ing in apturl-kde
[10:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, did you ever consider implementing that stuff in some python module?
[10:47] <apachelogger> def _ and def utf8 are a perfect example of code duplication
[10:47] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: thanks a lot
[10:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: well it's all a cludge the utf8 stuff, I'm hoping python 3 will fix it
[10:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: ScottK said that it will still be some time until that becomes default, so I think that a more maintainable implementation would be a good idea :)
[11:05] <Keybuk> pitti: bug for what?
[11:05] <pitti> Keybuk: "service" saying that you should run "service"
[11:05] <Keybuk> pitti: that's a server bug
[11:05] <Keybuk> err service bug
[11:05] <pitti> ok, sysvinit then?
  kees: could you set OGRA=n on that script? :)
[11:07] <ogra> Keybuk, that was in my lastlog output without much context, mind explaining what you were referring to ?
[11:07] <ogra> did i trash something without knowing ?
[11:08] <Keybuk> ogra: don't worry ;)
[11:08] <ogra> ok :)
[11:09] <Keybuk> I believe I was making light fun of your occasional habit of panicing about things unnecessarily
[11:09] <Keybuk> just like that init script was doing ;)
[11:09] <ogra> ah :)
[11:12] <pitti> done, bug 427277
[11:57] <stooj> Hi all. I've written a wee gui in python. How can I graphically prompt for a sudo password?
[11:59] <pitti> stooj: ideally you wouldn't need to; but first, what is wee?
[12:00] <stooj> pitti: Heh. Sorry. Wee = small.
[12:00] <pitti> ah
[12:00] <stooj> pitti: I have a collection of DVDs that used to be part of a LinuxMCE collection.
[12:00] <pitti> stooj: so, the "modern" way of doing privileged things is to have a d-bus backend with PolicyKit-protected functions
[12:01] <pitti> and GUIs running as normal user, calling the d-bus functions
[12:01] <pitti> if your frontend itself needs root privileges, then start it through gksu in its .desktop file
[12:01] <pitti> e. g. /usr/share/applications/synaptic.desktop
[12:02] <stooj> OK. The gui just runs an mount command when you choose a file in a filepicker
[12:02] <pitti> eww
[12:02] <stooj> So, d-bus would be the way to go.
[12:02] <stooj> Bad?
[12:03] <pitti> stooj: well, devicekit-disks already provides that d-bus interface for mounting for you
[12:03] <pitti> and you don't even need to  mess with d-bus yourself; if you have GNOME, you can call gvfs-mount from python
[12:04] <pitti> there's a nice library libgdu for this, but it doesn't have a Python binding right now
[12:04] <pitti> but doing the mount through devkit-disks should be okay
[12:05] <pitti> stooj: you can just call "devkit-disks --mount /dev/sdc1", or (for more control), call the corresponding d-bus method
[12:06] <stooj> Wow. OK.
[12:07] <stooj> Any documentation in particular I should look at for that?
[12:08] <pitti> stooj: http://hal.freedesktop.org/docs/DeviceKit-disks/ is pretty comprehensive
[12:08] <pitti> "man devkit-disks" should probably get you going in 2 minutes
[12:09] <pitti> Keybuk: just as a warning, I uploaded a new gdm to fix an alpha-6 bug; this has a higher version number than your PPA
[12:10] <stooj> Many thanks pitti!
[12:22] <Keybuk> pitti: no problem
[12:22] <Keybuk> "bzr update" for me ;)
[12:24] <Keybuk> pitti: talking of which, any idea when all of the network-manager updates in the bzr branch will be uploaded?
[12:25] <apachelogger> mvo: any objections to making apturl use debhelper 7 automation?
[12:30] <Keybuk> http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9544/travislaptopkarmic20090.png
[12:30] <Keybuk> ^ I wonder what the "exe" is
[12:33] <Keybuk> pitti: you have the mysterious "exe" in your graph too
[12:33] <Keybuk> but it goes away again after the first boot
[12:33] <Keybuk> wonder whether it's an ext4 thing
[12:36] <mvo> apachelogger: no
[12:37] <cjwatson> apachelogger: dh7++
[12:37] <cjwatson> (for whatever that's worth :-) )
[12:38] <apachelogger> hehe
[12:39] <jdstrand> Riddell: not yet, but will today for sure
[12:40] <liw> dh7: the power of cdbs, and the obfuscation of cdbs, but with the good taste of joeyh
[12:40] <directhex> yum yum joeyh
[12:44] <apachelogger> mvo: should apturl get bug reports related to encoding within the next few days, then I seriously screwed up ... now encodes to utf8 all over the place (as seen in gdebi)
[12:45] <apachelogger> other than that is apturl-kde all awesome now and lintian all happy again
[12:46] <mvo> apachelogger: wonderful, I think if its following gdebi, then we should be fine
[12:47] <apachelogger> *nod* I still think we should move that stuff to one module imported by all of our pyapps though
[12:47] <evand> pitti: am I okay to reopen bug 395103, given your discovery in the upstream report that the existing patch breaks variants?
[12:51] <ogra> Keybuk, the exe ?
[12:51] <ogra> Keybuk, clearly the first steps of http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono
[12:53] <apachelogger> about time
[13:44] <kelemengabor_> Heya
[13:44] <kelemengabor_> yeah, that is the penguinfucker's night
[13:46] <cjwatson> kelemengabor_: that's unnecessary; please cut it out
[13:46] <kelemengabor_> cjwatson: nevermind
[13:47] <kelemengabor_> just I try little spammer troll-bot
[13:47] <cjwatson> try it somewhere else
[13:47] <kelemengabor_> it is run under ubuntu sucked penguin 12.4 release candidate
[13:50] <liw> hm, that's the third troll/spammer I see in two days
[13:54]  * ScottK notes the +o came less than a minute after the initial troll.  Very solid reaction time.
[13:54] <cjwatson> it only took that long because for some reason my /op alias wasn't working
[13:55] <cjwatson> oh, that's because I called it /opself, bah
[13:57] <liw> heh, I had a habit of using my native language for naming scripts, aliaes, and other such things I wrote for myself, so they'd not be confused with stuff that came from elsewhere
[13:57] <ogra> Keybuk, geez, thats an insanely long changelog
[13:57] <liw> then I kept forgetting which native language I used in each instance, since I have to choose from
[13:57] <ogra> (sysvinit)
[14:04] <pitti> Keybuk: I noticed that I get a couchdb instance started, for no reason; that's a bug as well; perhaps "exe" is something from erlang
[14:05] <Keybuk> no, the exe is happening inside the initramfs
[14:05] <pitti> Keybuk: network-manager> redirecting to asac; I don't know
[14:09] <asac> dont see the question. repost please ;)
[14:10] <cjwatson> exe> presumably /proc/$pid/exe
[14:12] <rgreening> pitti: I need some assistance with build_kdeui in python-distutils-extra and using the kde ui file to generate translations in the usb-creator project. I am at a loss. I see build_kdeui can generate a .py file, but my app uses the pyqt.uic.loadui method to load the ui directly rather than a compiled version.
[14:13] <rgreening> pitti: so, I was wondering what the correct way to generate the necessary pot info sould be for this project to combine with the gtk pot/po (if you have some pointers)
[14:14] <pitti> rgreening: hi
[14:16] <pitti> rgreening: for .ui> right, Apport still uses loadUi() as well; your setup.py manually needs to install the *.ui files in data_files
[14:17] <pitti> rgreening: I spoke with some KDE devs, and they said that the preferred way would be to build and ship the .py files instead, which is why distutils-extras does that by default; but you don't need to use that, of course
[14:17] <rgreening> pitti: done that. so it loads the ui fine. The issue at hand is getting the translations template to include my stuff in the ui
[14:17] <pitti> rgreening: pot> usually you just have one domain for the project, and try to share as many strings between the projects as possible; you want to have several domains?
[14:17] <pitti> ah
[14:18] <rgreening> pitti: no, want to merge to domain usbcreator
[14:18] <asac> anyone knows a eager + not-so-overloaded debian ftpmaster?
[14:18] <rgreening> just to make sure we don't miss any differences
[14:19] <pitti> it's not picking them up automatically?
[14:19] <rgreening> pitti: for example, I use Close not Exit, in the window. there are some minor differences.
[14:19] <rgreening> nope.
[14:19] <pitti> rgreening: indeed, seems you found a bug
[14:19] <rgreening> pitti, maybe you could have a look at usb-creator in lp and see what I may be doing wrong
[14:19] <Riddell> rgreening: we use extractrc to extract strings from .ui files, see the script extract-messages.sh
[14:19] <pitti> rgreening: mind to report it against python-distutils-extra? I'll fix it ASAP, but probably not today
[14:19] <rgreening> Riddell: doesn't that require cdbs
[14:20] <florian__> Hey guys. I saw that UIFreeze is in place for Karmic. Is there a place we can see what it will look like ? I search the wiki with no success.
[14:20] <Riddell> rgreening: no, it's from upstream KDE
[14:20] <cjwatson> asac: pick on one of http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/08/msg00004.html ?
[14:20] <rgreening> Riddell: are there any required deps to ensure extract-messages is called?
[14:20] <pitti> florian__: grab the current daily CD and start the live system?
[14:20] <Riddell> rgreening: I did say I'd look at i18n for usb-creator, although I utterly failed to get to it yesterday I'm afraid
[14:21] <florian__> pitti: not a bad idea... is there anything easier ?
[14:21] <rgreening> pitti: I'll try what Riddell suggest first. If it still doesn't work as expected, I'll open a bug report.
[14:21] <Riddell> rgreening: cdbs kde.mk will call it, you can also call it any other way you wish.  it uses Messages.sh files
[14:21] <asac> cjwatson: good idea. fresh blood :)
[14:21] <pitti> rgreening: cool, thanks
[14:22] <rgreening> Riddell: so I include a Messages.sh and where do I call extract-messages.sh? In the makefile I assume
[14:22] <rgreening> pitti: ty. I'm so not good with translations :)
[14:22] <kirkland> cjwatson: in qemu-kvm, we have a very simple shell script called 'kvm-ok' that basicly does egrep "flags.*:.*(svm|vmx)" /proc/cpuinfo
[14:22] <kirkland> cjwatson: i often ask people to run that, to tell me if they have VT
[14:22] <pitti> rgreening: don't worry; distutils-e is supposed to extract them, but it seems that fails for some reason
[14:23] <kirkland> cjwatson: i was thinking that script belongs somewhere more basic than qemu-kvm package
[14:23] <cjwatson> kirkland: oh, I dunno, qemu-kvm sounds OK
[14:23] <rgreening> pitti: what are the requirements to enable it to extract them?
[14:23] <cjwatson> we don't really have any more general place that I can think of
[14:23] <kirkland> cjwatson: because i often tell them to run kvm-ok, which they run that script, find out they can't do VT, and then uninstall the package
[14:23] <pitti> rgreening: me fixing the bug, I suppose :)
[14:23] <rgreening> maybe I misses something
[14:23] <rgreening> lol
[14:23] <kirkland> cjwatson: i was thinking pciutils, perhaps
[14:23] <pitti> rgreening: you can of course have a manual po/POTFILES.in with everything
[14:23] <cjwatson> kirkland: stick it on a web page then :)
[14:23] <cjwatson> well, maybe shell scripts on web pages not a great plan
[14:24] <cjwatson> kirkland: pciutils doesn't make sense to me, but I can't think of anywhere better
[14:24] <rgreening> pitti: does the kdeui file need to be tagged with a special tag in POTFILES.in? like the text: gettext/glade is?
[14:24] <kirkland> cjwatson: web page didn't do it; telling people to do that grep didn't do, hence the stupid script
[14:24]  * rgreening wishes there was documentation for all this :)
[14:25] <kirkland> cjwatson: it can stay where it is, i suppose; i was just thinking that it's a little strange to install a package to run a script to tell you if you can use the package at all; would be nice to know that ahead of time
[14:25] <pitti> rgreening: I know that GtkBuilder .ui files work with "[type: gettext/glade] file.ui"
[14:25] <rgreening> pitti: so, does the kde ui have an equiv?
[14:26] <pitti> rgreening: hm, according to intltool-extract(8) apparently not :-(
[14:26] <rgreening> heh
[14:27] <pitti> it should really..
[14:28] <rgreening> pitti: should the setup be using auto mode for this to work?
[14:29] <pitti> rgreening: well, it won't make much difference; if intltool can't handle them, then auto mode can't do magic
[14:29] <rgreening> ok
[14:32]  * rgreening wishes translations were easier :) or at least more documented :)
[14:32] <rgreening> Riddell: so, if I want to merge the .pot into the same domain, the sample Messages.sh I have assumes a seperate domain.. suggestions?
[14:33] <pitti> rgreening: you want to merge two .pot files? I think msgcat can do that
[14:34] <pitti> (untested)
[14:34] <rgreening> msgmerge maybe also?
[14:34] <pitti> I don't think so
[14:34] <pitti> that joins on msgids
[14:34] <rgreening> ah, so that may be what I was doing wrong
[14:34] <rgreening> haha
[14:35] <rgreening> pitti: you are golden :P
[14:35] <rgreening> I'll try the msgcat...
[14:36]  * rgreening really wants to ship usb-creator-kde with working translations
[14:36] <kirkland> cjwatson: do you ack, nack, or abstain, on the move of kvm-ok from kvm to pciutils?
[14:37] <kirkland> cjwatson: i ask because we're about to do a qa community call for testing of kvm, and the qa team wants to give the community easy instructions to find out if they can participate or not
[14:37] <Laney> oh dear
[14:37] <cjwatson> kirkland: abstain leaning towards nack; it's not a pci thing
[14:37] <Laney> I shouldn't have remotely updated with the new boot stuff
[14:37] <kirkland> cjwatson: fair enough, thanks
[14:37] <ScottK> Laney: Defintely not.
[14:38] <Laney> dhcp-20-65:~ laney$ ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:38] <Laney> ssh: connect to host home.orangesquash.org.uk port 22: Connection refused
[14:38] <Laney> :(!
[14:38] <Daviey> Laney: no worries, use the serial console to resolve it :P.
[14:39] <Laney> oh yeah... that...
[14:39] <Laney> nah it's my workstation at home, I can just prod it when I get back later
[14:47] <rgreening> pitti: just to confirm, if this was working as expected, I wouldn't need to add build_kdeui to my setup.py nor call it, as the build_il8n (in theory) would handle the kde ui file if listed in the po/POTFILES.in, correct?
[14:47] <rgreening> if so, then I'll file a bug to get that working.
[14:47] <pitti> rgreening: those are two entirely different things
[14:47] <YokoZar1> slangasek: Just a heads up, one last UI change that I hoped to sneak through after mpt and I discussed: http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142  -- I uploaded a bzr branch just before feature freeze, though the package isn't live yet.
[14:48] <pitti> rgreening: extracting strings from KDE *.ui files to the POT doesn't work, and needs intltool support
[14:48] <rgreening> yeah, just wanted to confirm that kdeui was something different than what I was trying to achienve
[14:48] <pitti> rgreening: build_kdeui is for compiling *.ui into *.py files which you would ship instead of the *.ui files
[14:48] <rgreening> ya. cool. Ok, I'll file a bug about the second part then. ty pitti
[14:51] <jcastro> Keybuk: fyi I filed bug 421422 about the desktopcouch launching xulrunner
[14:51] <jcastro> Keybuk: sorry, I meant bug 427036
[14:55] <soren> doko: Is python-central still our preferred python packaging system?
[14:56] <Keybuk> jcastro: cool, can you subscribe me
[14:57] <rgreening> pitti: bug 427358
[14:58] <jcastro> Keybuk: done, you don't have a boot tag for bugs or anything do you?
[14:58] <Keybuk> no
[14:58] <Keybuk> (since you can't subscribe by tag)
[14:58] <jcastro> I see
[15:09] <ScottK> soren: On the off chance you care, the Debian Python teams have picked python-support to standardize on.
[15:10] <soren> ScottK: Is python-central frowned upon?
[15:10] <soren> ScottK: Or is it just a preference?
[15:10] <ScottK> The DD that sponsors ~70% of sponsored uploads for those packaging teams will no longer sponsor python-central stuff.
[15:11] <ScottK> The perception in Debian is that python-central is not maintained.
[15:12] <ScottK> My view is that each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.  Python-support has improved a lot recently.
[15:14] <soren> ScottK: Ok, thanks.
[15:15] <pitti> Keybuk: $ sudo stop -q anacron
[15:15] <pitti> stop: Unknown instance:
[15:15] <pitti> Keybuk: anacron isn't a daemon, so does that command even make sense?
[15:15] <pitti> Keybuk: (it's in /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/95anacron and currently breaking suspend)
[15:16] <pitti> I'm not quite sure whether it should be a daemon, controlled by /etc/init/anacron.conf, or a cronjob, controlled by /etc/cron.d/anacron
[15:17] <pitti> Keybuk: but the manpage doesn't talk about a daemon at all, and ancron -s just processes pending jobs and returns
[15:19] <cr3> mathiaz: do you think it would be reasonable to reuse bug #426613, regarding checkbox 0.8.2, in order to apply for a FFE?
[15:19] <Keybuk> pitti: I already fixed that in the PPA
[15:19] <Keybuk> "stop anacron" *will* stop any running anacron instance
[15:19] <Keybuk> ie. if cron.daily is underway
[15:19] <pitti> Keybuk: great, thanks
[15:19] <Keybuk> which is what the sleep.d is trying to do
[15:20] <Keybuk> it just needed an || :
[15:20]  * pitti dist-upgrades -- lots of new stuff
[15:21] <Keybuk> just minor tweaks
[15:22] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm surprised that I haven't got any of one bug report, and more more of another
[15:22] <Keybuk> the one I've had a couple of reports of, which I expected, is the "computer just sits on boot with the hard drive light on"
[15:22] <Keybuk> ie. fsck running ;)
[15:22]  * Keybuk hadn't hooked the progress stuff up yet
[15:23] <pitti> Keybuk: argh, dist-upgrade just killed my session again
[15:23] <Keybuk> the other is that gdm is currently started even in recovery mode ;)
[15:23] <pitti> does anything there restart gdm or so?
[15:23] <Keybuk> pitti: nope
[15:23] <Keybuk> I think X crashes
[15:24] <superm1> pitti, for your 15_default_session, it looks like the file name is favors is default.desktop, not default.session, correct?
[15:24] <superm1> or would either work?
[15:24] <pitti> superm1: erm, sorry, yes; I meant xsessions/default.desktop
[15:24] <superm1> no problem, thanks :)
[15:25] <Laney> Keybuk: Might have something for you later... when I discover why my PC didn't boot ;)
[15:25] <Keybuk> Laney: ?
[15:25] <Laney> I upgraded to the PPA and it never came back up
[15:26] <Keybuk> Laney: I'd like to help with that "discovery" :)
[15:26] <Laney> well I'll be going home in a couple of hours so we can check it out then
[15:26] <Keybuk> ok
[15:26] <Keybuk> anything unusual or non-standard about your setup?
[15:26] <Keybuk> in particular, the contents of your /etc/fstab /
[15:27] <Laney> I've got it partitioned into a few LVs
[15:27] <Laney> across... 4 disks I think
[15:28]  * seb128 grrrs at Keybuk for opening a collection of tasks on the same bug
[15:28] <seb128> which means spamming everybody subscribed to any of those components
[15:29] <Laney> Boots took ages before anyway, probably because it's been upgraded since forever (http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/chicken-karmic-20090910-1.png)
[15:30] <genii> Are there any plans to package Clonezilla?
[15:30] <Keybuk> seb128: I was told to do it that way <g>
[15:30] <seb128> who told you to do that?
[15:30] <Keybuk> seb128: robbie
[15:30] <Keybuk> besides, that's how LP is supposed to work ;)
[15:30] <seb128> robbiew, could you please not recommend people to do that? ;-)
[15:31] <Keybuk> seb128: just ignore the bug
[15:31] <Keybuk> Laney: huh, lvm taking that long kinda implies that you have an actual problem there
[15:32] <Laney> well I wouldn't be surprised if some of the disks are on the way out (indeed I have ordered the replacements)
[15:32] <robbiew> seb128: if you are talking about the FFE...slangasek recommend that
[15:32] <doko> soren: yes
[15:32] <seb128> *shrug*
[15:32] <seb128> ok
[15:32] <Laney> so yes it could just be a coincidence
[15:32] <seb128> the issue with such bugs is that you get email for every change to any of the tasks
[15:33] <Keybuk> seb128: the counter-argument to that issue is that if you're a bug contact, you should be aware of changes to those packages *and* how they fit in with the other tasks
[15:33] <seb128> ie when there is 19 components you don't care about and one you are subscribed to, you get all the trafic for the 19 other by email
[15:34] <seb128> Keybuk, I just dislike multi-tasking, it makes it also almost impossible to rely comments to your component
[15:34] <Keybuk> I don't really find that it makes much difference
[15:34] <Keybuk> it all ends up in your mail folder anyway either way
[15:34] <Keybuk> it's no worse than having two subscribers to the bug both replying to requests for information
[15:35] <ScottK> The problem is once one package is fixed and you really don't care anymore.
[15:35] <seb128> anyway let's not discuss for hours how launchpad sucks ;-)
[15:35] <pitti>  hm, but having tasks on a bug is how LP is supposed to work
[15:36] <pitti> but it's missing the possibility of unsubscribing from bugs where you don't have open components any more that you are sub'ed to
[15:36] <ScottK> Yep
[15:36] <seb128> pitti, I found that making different tasks basically impossible to track and flooding people by email
[15:36] <seb128> it's fine when a bug needs a change in several components to be fixed
[15:37] <Laney> there was an LP bug about supporting negative subscriptions
[15:37] <seb128> but thinks like freeze exception would be better tracked with different bugs
[15:38] <seb128> if you start mixing question and concern about 15 different components in one bug it becames really hard to read or to find what applies to your component
[15:38] <Laney> bug 204980
[15:39] <pitti> seb128: well, actually you wouldn't want to get these FFEs in the first place, would you?
[15:39] <seb128> pitti, I would like to know what's going on with gdm
[15:39] <seb128> but I don't care about all the other things there
[15:40] <seb128> but right if I could opt-out that would be fine I guess
[15:40] <seb128> which is the bug Laney listed
[15:41] <pitti> *nod*
[15:52] <mathiaz> cr3: yes - bug 426613 can be used to ask for a FFe.
[16:11] <cjwatson> my rule of thumb is that if it's the same bug that needs to be fixed in several places in order for the bug to go away, use tasks
[16:12] <cjwatson> if it's the same issue that is independently present in N different places, then use separate bugs
[16:13] <cjwatson> so, let's say, that bug where upstart and some bit of the installer had to cooperate to get /etc/event.d/tty1 setting up getty properly for 8-bit text, that was a good case for tasks
[16:13] <cjwatson> but something like that mega-bug about all the different packages that need to use dpkg --print-architecture rather than --print-installation-architecture should really have been one bug per affected package
[16:13] <cjwatson> IMO
[16:17] <sgallagh> mathiaz: ping
[16:17] <mathiaz> sgallagh: hey - just sending emails to sssd-devel
[16:17] <sgallagh> mathiaz: Yeah, I saw the first one. I wanted to make sure you pulled in both patches that were likely to affect you
[16:18] <mathiaz> sgallagh: yop - I've also included the proxy enumration patch
[16:19] <sgallagh> mathiaz: Ok, great :)
[16:19] <mathiaz> sgallagh: anything else worth integrating?
[16:20] <sgallagh> mathiaz: Looking at the git log right now :)
[16:21] <sgallagh> mathiaz: I think most of the rest of the patches we've pushed lately have been related to new functionality since 0.5.0, so you should be alright.
[16:21] <mathiaz> sgallagh: there was a thread about testing as well (started by jenny)
[16:21] <mathiaz> sgallagh: are there any tests publicly available?
[16:22] <mathiaz> sgallagh: great! thanks for keeping me in the loop
[16:22] <sgallagh> mathiaz: There are some unit tests available in the tarball
[16:22] <sgallagh> mathiaz: It's hard to make the rest of the tests public, because they rely on the availability of a remote data provider to work (e.g. LDAP and Kerberos)
[16:23] <mathiaz> sgallagh: right - I'm looking into this as well
[16:23] <mathiaz> sgallagh: one option I'm investigation is to use ec2
[16:23]  * pitti looks at /builders..
[16:23] <pitti> amd64  9   7790 jobs (four days)
[16:23] <pitti> i386 15 14434 jobs (three days)
[16:23] <pitti> WTH?
[16:23] <mathiaz> sgallagh: with public AMIs
[16:23] <sgallagh> mathiaz: I'm not familiar with it. Can you give me some details?
[16:24] <pitti> oh, archive rebuild test?
[16:24] <mathiaz> sgallagh: ec2 is amazon's public cloud
[16:24] <mathiaz> sgallagh: it should be possible to create a default ldap+krb infrastructure
[16:24] <sgallagh> Too many acronyms/initializations to keep track of :-P
[16:24] <mathiaz> sgallagh: and run tests in there
[16:24] <sgallagh> That's a very interesting idea
[16:25] <mathiaz> sgallagh: right - it can be a bit overwhelming if you're not following all of this closely
[16:25] <sgallagh> Could we move this discussion to #freeipa? I think there are a few others who'd love to be involved in this
[16:26] <mathiaz> sgallagh: sure
[16:37] <kirkland> cjwatson: is it possible to downgrade a karmic system from grub2 to grub1 ?
[16:42] <cjwatson> install grub, make sure /boot/grub/menu.lst is right, and then run grub-install?
[16:42] <cjwatson> I don't really want to spend time supporting that though ...
[16:43] <kirkland> cjwatson: no problem, i'm trying to work around a bug in vmbuilder, it doesn't work with grub2
[16:47] <cr3> mathiaz: FFE completed, now we play the waiting game. good thing I prepared well before Alpha 6
[17:30] <RainCT> Keybuk: Hey. Tried the boot stuff out with both PPAs now. The first boot worked but took 90 seconds instead of 40 before; now it's failing to boot with: "mountall: unable to write pid file: read-only file system" (and a moment later: "init: module-init-tools main process (xxxx) terminated with status 1")
[17:31] <ion> rainct: In /etc/init/mountall.conf, comment out ‘expect daemon’ and replace ‘exec mountall --daemon...’ with ‘exec mountall --debug...’
[17:31] <mathiaz> mvo: hi
[17:31] <ion> rainct: That should provide a nice amount of debug output.
[17:31] <mathiaz> mvo: I've got another bug for your apt debugging skills - bug 194140
[17:33] <RainCT> ion: there is no such file (nor an /etc/init/ directory)
[17:34] <RainCT> err ignore that
[17:34] <ion> Which both PPAs, btw? ubuntu-boot and
[17:34] <RainCT> Yes, doing what you said now.  It’s module-init-tools that returns 1, not mountall. The problem is probably not in mountall then.
[17:36] <ion> Do you have /etc/modules?
[17:36] <RainCT> ion: Yes, contains "lp" and "rtc"
[17:39] <RainCT> (both PPAs = ubuntu-boot/ppa/ubuntu and ubuntu-boot/staging/ubuntu)
[17:41] <RainCT> ion: So should I try out the mountall thing?
[17:43] <ion> rainct: Try adding the line ‘console output’ to module-init-tools.conf first, and also add ‘set -x’ as a new line immediately after the ’script’ line.
[17:45] <RainCT> ion: OK. Is "console output" right after author or where should that go?
[17:46] <kees> slangasek: thanks for helping triage 426658.  one down.  :)
[17:48] <ion> rainct: Anywhere, except for inside the script block
[17:48] <RainCT> ok, trying it out..
[17:49] <popey> directhex: when you have a little time, I'm still having issues building tomboy if you wouldn't mind helping me.
[17:57] <seb128> evand, bug #421212 is similar to the one you reopened?
[17:59] <pitti> evand: BTW, I already talked to upstream about that; they don't seem to want to replicate the entire variety of variants and options in hal/gdm..
[18:00] <pitti> since bug 395103 originally was karmic RC, but fixed for most folks, I would either like to see it being closed again and have a new bug for the remaining issues (whcih aren't likely to be fixed in karmic), or downgrade that bug, which changes history
[18:02] <evand> pitti: that's problematic for us, as (as far as I can tell) the current code completely breaks dvorak being set in XKB_VARIANT (see bug 408292)
[18:03] <pitti> okay, but still it's a different cause now; we might need some workarounds for that
[18:03] <pitti> evand: if it's important, can we please bump the prio of bug 421212, set it to karmic, and use that?
[18:04] <evand> absolutely
[18:04]  * pitti doesn't like reopening old bugs
[18:04] <pitti> ok, great
[18:04] <evand> apologies for reopening your old bug
[18:04]  * pitti shuffles bugs
[18:04] <pitti> evand: none needed, just coordinating here :)
[18:04] <RainCT> ion: it doesn't find the rtc module
[18:04] <evand> :)
[18:06] <pitti> evand: how's that now?
[18:08] <ion> rainct: Ok, that isn’t the problem either. Dunno then...
[18:09] <evand> pitti: Looks good.  I just moved mdz's bug to be a duplicate of the new master.
[18:09] <RainCT> ion: well, thanks :)
[18:09]  * RainCT looks at Keybuk
[18:09] <ArneGoetje> apachelogger: any chance we can get the language-selector changes uploaded?
[18:09] <evand> pitti: thanks for sorting that
[18:10] <pitti> evand: thanks to you; I don't have a clear idea yet how to fix that in gdm, since it requires changes in gnome-settings-daemon as well (hopefuully not in the stack below, like libxklavier)
[18:10] <pitti> but I'll have a look at it
[18:10] <evand> best of luck
[18:10] <evand> if you need any help testing, do let me know
[18:10] <pitti> testing should be easy
[18:13] <kees> Keybuk: do you have an ETA for the udev signal bug getting fixed?  I can upload it if you don't have other changes pending (which I suspect you do...)
[18:15] <Keybuk> kees: I'm waiting on an upstream release
[18:16] <kees> okay
[18:17] <kees> Keybuk: is that coming soon?  :)  My VMs keep breaking.
[18:17] <Keybuk> kees: yes
[18:17] <Keybuk> *shrug* karmic ;)
[18:19] <Keybuk> ion: the modprobe failure thing is fixed
[18:19] <Keybuk> though don't know why it would stop the boot
[18:19] <Keybuk> nothing waits for module-init-tools (and even if it did, nothing waits only for success)
[18:20] <ogra> i have a slowdown as well due to modprobe, remember ?
[18:20] <ion> Yeah, it probably isn’t the one stopping the boot. I only wanted the modprobe output in case it had been something like ‘read-only filesystem, can write blahblah’.
[18:20] <ogra> (with my unsupported touchscreen that has no driver and gets probed in a loop)
[18:20] <ion> Which would have strongly suggested an issue in mountall. :-)
[18:20] <ion> Oh, now that i think of it, modprobe probably doesn’t need to write anything ever.
[18:21] <Keybuk> yeah
[18:21] <Keybuk> the virtual 1/2 type lines in the mountall --debug output are the important ones
[18:21] <Keybuk> they tell you why it's waiting
[18:21] <Keybuk> so far, all three people complained have "remote 0/4" or something in there
[18:21] <Keybuk> and I get to do the "I told you not to try it if you had network filesystems" dance
[18:22] <mathiaz> zul: so what's the state of moving puppet into main?
[18:22] <zul> mathiaz: almost done, working on enabling the testsuite
[18:22] <zul> ill take one more crack at it today
[18:22] <mathiaz> zul: great!
[18:24] <Keybuk> (and that's easy to fix 'echo initctl emit net-device-up > /etc/network/if-up.d/somescript' ;)
[18:26] <soreau> Hello. I am having some trouble with snd_46xx on an old thinkpad and I found something that I want to try but I need a modules.conf file which of course doesnt exist. If I create one, where should it go so it will be respected?
[18:28] <Pici> soreau: Under /etc/modprobe.d/
[18:28] <soreau> Pici: ok thanks
[18:29] <Laney> Keybuk: Interested in doing some debugging? sreadahead main process ... terminated with status 1, mountall: unable to write pid file: read only FS, debug pre-start process terminated with status 1, module-init-tools terminated with status 1
[18:55] <mathiaz> zul: there are a lot of puppet dependencies in universe - http://paste.ubuntu.com/268694/
[18:56] <mathiaz> zul: do all the required src packages have MIR written?
[18:57] <mathiaz> zul: it seems that some of them are useless - like rails, wwwconfig-common
[18:57] <zul> mathiaz: dont think so
[18:58] <mathiaz> zul: it seems that the dependencies need to be reviewed - and only relevant one should be kept
[18:58] <mathiaz> zul: before puppet can be moved to main
[18:58] <zul> kees: ^^^
[18:59] <kees> holy cow
[19:00] <kees> zul:  your MIR report said only 3 weren't in main??
[19:00] <zul> kees: uh...wtf
[19:00] <zul> i need to go look at this again
[19:02] <zul> puppetmaster recommends rails
[19:02] <mathiaz> zul: also - one of your upload disables starting puppetmaster at install time - why?
[19:02] <mathiaz> zul: right - I think most of what got pulled in are recommends - these can be dropped to suggests
[19:02] <mathiaz> zul: dropping rails would be a good start
[19:02] <mathiaz> zul: unless puppetmaster requires rails to run :/
[19:03] <zul> mathiaz: i disabled it because it was required for the MIR
[19:03] <mathiaz> zul: hm - in bug 408297? where?
[19:04] <zul> mathiaz: see kees' comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/puppet/+bug/408297/comments/1
[19:05] <mathiaz> zul: are you refering to debian bug 518831?
[19:06] <zul> mathiaz: yes
[19:06] <mathiaz> zul: IIUC the fix is to not start puppetd (ie the client) - I don't think the puppetmaster should be disabled as well
[19:07] <zul> mathiaz: noted
[19:07] <zul> actually its not started as well
[19:09] <mathiaz> zul: bug 427466 - can I assign it to you?
[19:11] <kees> Keybuk: given that alpha6 is next week, do you mind if I upload the udev fix now, just to get it solved?  it may be causing issues with rsyslogd too
[19:11] <zul> mathiaz, of course
[19:20] <superm1> kees, if you do upload, coulud you also cherry pick http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=blobdiff;f=extras/hid2hci/70-hid2hci.rules;h=e133afd62546a37a598ffd317badd0cb7081823e;hp=b332c168e981682eb58e29699b64f7b154fb6663;hb=8a0217ffd432e56231b0d1bccda71449bca5f8f6;hpb=2ffc9cc1917b1bb6fe86881a94a47dce9aa15168 ?  i was figuring we'd wait till udev 147, unless opportunistic
[19:22] <kees> superm1: sure
[19:25] <zul> mathiaz: you dont need rails for puppetmaster
[19:26] <zul> mathiaz: rails would only be useful for the testsuite
[19:26] <zul> and that seems to be broken atm still :(
[19:26] <mathiaz> zul: right - if the test suite requires rails, it means it will be a build-dependency
[19:27] <mathiaz> zul: and thus rails would have to be moved to main as well
[19:27] <mathiaz> zul: and I don't think this is something we wanna do
[19:27] <mathiaz> zul: (ie moving rails to main)
[19:27] <mathiaz> zul: does all the test require rails?
[19:30] <zul> mathiaz: it needs rails to build
[19:31] <zul> and to run
[19:31] <mathiaz> zul: to build and run the tests?
[19:31] <mathiaz> zul: or to build puppet?
[19:31] <zul> mathiaz: to build and run the tests
[19:32] <mathiaz> zul: hmmm
[19:32] <mathiaz> kees: ^^ what's your opinion on this?
[19:32] <mathiaz> kees: I don't think we should pull rails into main
[19:32] <mathiaz> zul: which part of rails is required?
[19:32] <zul> but there is a MIR for rails that look it got approved
[19:32] <mathiaz> zul: ?
[19:33] <zul> havent got that far yet its still failing for me and im not a ruby expert
[19:33] <mathiaz> zul: I don't a MIR for rails on wiki.u.c
[19:33] <zul> i was wrong about the rails MIR must have been look at something else
[19:33] <mathiaz> zul: I don't *see* a MIR for rails on wiki.u.c
[19:34] <zul> yeah so its not something we want in main
[19:34] <kees> I don't want rails in main
[19:35] <zul> neither do i
[19:35] <mathiaz> kees: zul: great - we all agree then :)
[19:35] <kees> heh
[19:36] <mathiaz> that means tests can't be enable in the build
[19:36] <zul> ill fix that puppet bug then
[19:36] <mathiaz> zul: can they still be run outside of the build process?
[19:36] <mathiaz> zul: ie - could they be packaged separately?
[19:36] <zul> mathiaz: i think so havent tried yet
[19:37] <mathiaz> zul: I think the first step is to try to get them running
[19:37] <mathiaz> zul: if that works try to package them - or leave instructions in a readme file
[19:37] <zul> gotcha
[19:38] <mathiaz> kees: ^^ would that work for you?
[19:40] <kees> mathiaz: you're proposing documentation how to run the tests and verifying that they pass (but not during the build)?
[19:40] <mathiaz> kees: yes
[19:40] <kees> mathiaz: yeah, that seems like a fair compromise
[19:41] <NCommander> any archive admin, can someone binNEW linux-mvl-dove? I'm kinda depwait for that to pass through the NEW queue
[19:48] <kees> superm1: does the hid2hci commit fix a specific LP bug?
[19:49] <NCommander> jdstrand, you around?
[19:50] <jdstrand> NCommander: yeah
[19:50] <superm1> kees, let me see, looks like it was bug 385934
[19:50] <NCommander> jdstrand, can you debinNEW a kernel for me?
[19:50]  * NCommander has been depwait on this since yestreday :-/
[19:51] <kees> superm1: okay, thanks.
[19:53] <jdstrand> NCommander: did you try StevenK or Muharem? (it is thier day)
[19:53] <jdstrand> NCommander: if they aren't available I can do it
[19:53] <NCommander> jdstrand, LP was very unstable last night, so StevenK didn't want to try deNEWing anything at risk of breaking LP, and Muharem doesn't seem to be on (or at least, I can't see him on IRC)
[19:54] <jdstrand> NCommander: is LP any better now?
[19:54] <NCommander> jdstrand, its not 502ing forme anymore
[19:55] <jdstrand> alright
[19:56] <NCommander> jdstrand, thanks, sorry that you keep getting hit with the random kernels
[20:08] <cr3> is there a way to detect whether a script is running in a live environment programmatically?
[20:11] <NCommander> cr3, why?
[20:12] <cr3> NCommander: if I'm running from live, I could easily use echo ubuntu | sudo -S in order to run commands as root without having to prompt the user for a password they might not even know
[20:12] <cr3> NCommander: oddly, I thought there was no password and gksudo wouldn't even ever prompt anyways
[20:12] <NCommander> cr3, sudo should just give you root on the live envirionment sans password
[20:13] <cr3> NCommander: thanks for the confirmation, even better then :)
[20:13] <NCommander> cr3, well, you could just download a livecd and check ;-)
[20:26] <ahe> join #launchpad
[20:37] <robbiew> udevadm trigger is not premitted while udev is unconfigured.
[20:37] <robbiew> Gave up waiting for root device. Common problems:
[20:37] <robbiew> -Boot args (cat /proc/cmdline)
[20:37] <robbiew>   -Check rootdelay= (did the system wait long enough)
[20:37] <robbiew>   -Check root= (did the system wait for the right device?)
[20:37] <robbiew> -Missing modules (cat /proc/modules; ls /dev)
[20:37] <robbiew> ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/05d79451-0ad0-43fc-9f51-a2c98b4831f2 does not exist.
[20:37] <robbiew> Dropping to a shell!
[20:37] <robbiew> argh!
[20:37] <robbiew> i hate this bug
[20:39] <robbiew> kees: ^^^^^ once I fix this, should I run the script in bug 358654 to find the offending package(s)?
[20:49] <jelmer> aaa~>
[20:50] <kees> robbiew: yes please :)
[20:51] <robbiew> kees: shell script identifies: fuse-utils and initramfs-tools
[20:52] <robbiew> Keybuk broke it! ;)
[20:53] <jdstrand> NCommander: done
[20:53] <robbiew> well at least if initramfs-tools is the culprit...from the ubuntu-boot ppa...fun times!
[21:06] <NCommander> jdstrand, +1 beer (to be redeemed at next meatspace meet)
[21:06] <ScottK> Did someone say beer?
[21:07] <NCommander> ScottK, jdstrand gotten stuck NEWing every ARM kernel since they seem to land around Fridays :-/
[21:07] <ScottK> I see.  Well I'd suggest something stronger than beer then.
[21:12] <engla> DktrKranz: ping
[21:14] <DktrKranz> engla: pong
[21:16] <jdstrand> heh, np
[21:34] <apachelogger> ArneGoetje: sure, in a bit


[04:57] <MTecknology> so.... I used to love Drupal... but with D7 coming out my tune is starting to change; it's making me sad
[22:44] <Some_Person> How long does paste.ubuntu.com keep your paste?
[22:44] <Some_Person> And can I have a paste removed?
[22:45] <Some_Person> I accidentally exposed some important personal data on there