[00:50] <Devilsolution> whats the main chat chan?
[00:55] <daftykins> #ubuntu
[00:55] <daftykins> Devilsolution: but you can ask here too
[00:55] <Devilsolution> well i wanna know
[00:56] <penguin42> this is chat, #ubuntu for problems/questions about ubuntu
[00:56] <Devilsolution> if drinking alcohol with other CNS depressants will kill me
[00:56] <Devilsolution> as in, urgently
[00:56] <penguin42> generally it's probably the wrong place to ask
[00:56] <Devilsolution> nah see yeh nah
[00:56] <penguin42> however, I suggest it's probably a bad idea to do that
[00:56] <Devilsolution> but though
[00:57] <Devilsolution> i got an apache server how does i change the permissions of apache so that it can run scripts outside of its root
[00:57] <Devilsolution> id done chmod and chown and added the group i presume apache belongs to
[00:57] <Devilsolution> straight 777's
[00:58] <diddledan> !permissions
[00:58] <Devilsolution> no i understand permissions
[00:58]  * penguin42 doesn't know apache this well these days - but I think doesn't it chroot itself or otherwise really restrict itself to where it can run scripts to stop escapes
[00:58] <diddledan> hint, 777 is pretty much always the wrong permissions
[00:59] <Devilsolution> isnt that total access?
[00:59] <diddledan> exactly
[00:59] <Devilsolution> i get internal server error running anything thats required in <head>
[00:59] <diddledan> giving world writable permission is pretty much frowned upon
[00:59] <Devilsolution> mainly ajax but JS too
[01:00] <Devilsolution> does apache belong to a group i can add for the full root recursive folders/
[01:00] <Devilsolution> ?/
[01:00] <penguin42> Devilsolution: Are you sure it's actually a filesystem permissions problem and not an apache config issue?
[01:00] <diddledan> apache on ubuntu runs under www-data:www-data
[01:01] <Devilsolution> ahh i added www-data to the group permissions for that folder
[01:01] <Devilsolution> maybe apache config, ive not delved too deap
[01:01] <diddledan> !xy might be pertinent
[01:01] <diddledan> !xy > Devilsolution
[01:02] <diddledan> bah, it wasn't supposed to be a private
[01:02] <diddledan> damned bots in different channels using different semantics
[01:02] <Devilsolution> taha lol
[01:03] <Devilsolution> okay, got ana apache php sql server works fine....i run a simple script that calls ajax function (so get data from another file etc) but on that call i get permission denied
[01:04] <Devilsolution> automatically i thought it was something to do with apache's permissions as if apache has a group or user
[01:04] <Devilsolution> the whole /var/www/ is locked down tho, i have to chmod all files to edit
[01:05] <Devilsolution> want an ss of my issue?
[01:05] <diddledan> I would suggest checking the /var/log/apache2/error_log to see if it says whether it's a config error or not
[01:07] <Devilsolution> alright ill get on that
[01:07] <Devilsolution> bbs
[01:09] <Devilsolution> diddledan,  My hero
[01:09] <Devilsolution> cheers boss
[01:09] <Devilsolution> its all in there, ill sort it out
[01:10] <Devilsolution> Another question regarding security persay
[01:11] <Devilsolution> in open source like ununtu, how do we know that some random contributor for a kernel mod or embedded program isnt dodgey
[01:11] <Devilsolution> like keylogger root kit style
[01:11] <diddledan> the surest way is to read the sourcecode
[01:11] <Devilsolution> what if its sooooo obscure that it makes no sense?
[01:12] <Devilsolution> or its built into the compiler that builds the program
[01:12] <diddledan> and if you're concerned that a binary package contains things outside of the original source then you'd compile the source yourself
[01:13] <Devilsolution> i love taking the source, though the dependency builds take a so longggg
[01:13] <penguin42> Devilsolution: In principal most of the big packages it takes a few people to have looked at a change before it can get into the code base
[01:13] <penguin42> Devilsolution: In some of the smaller packages that is more of a risk
[01:14] <Devilsolution> dont get me wrong, having the source code at your finger tips essentially rids the problem but it requires so much knowledge to disect a single program
[01:15] <diddledan> which happens to be a benefit of opensource (despite your wording) because if you don't have the skills to analyse it the chances are someone somewhere else does have those skills
[01:15] <penguin42> Devilsolution: Yeh I mean there have been experiments to find the smallest source change that can be added to introduce a security problem and they can be quite subtle, so it's not a silver bullet
[01:48] <Devilsolution> even at kernal level?
[06:59] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:01] <daftykins> g'morn
[07:33] <arsen> hi daftykins
[07:33] <arsen> whatcha doing up?:)
[07:33] <daftykins> yeah... about that :D
[07:45] <Myrtti> meh
[07:45] <Myrtti> that was seriously unfun
[07:45] <MooDoo> Myrtti: what you done?
[07:54] <Myrtti> MooDoo: ssh had stopped responding during the night
[07:54] <arsen> :(
[07:54] <Myrtti> (I then sat half an hour wondering why things didn't reboot, forgot I had a truecrypted harddrive plugged in)
[07:58] <MooDoo> oh dear :(
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
[08:01] <MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[08:06] <daftykins> could be worse, could be like the time i took 90 mins to diagnose why my PC wouldn't POST in the first year of uni
[08:06] <daftykins> turned out the floppy ribbon was partially seated ¬_¬
[08:06] <daftykins> yep i had an FDD :>
[08:07] <directhex> wii u on amazon black friday in 10 mins
[08:07] <daftykins> lawltendo
[08:08] <directhex> resin cast piglet at 08:45!
[08:09] <directhex> daftykins, whilst nintendo has been a company of screwups for about 7 years, the wii u is a better buy than the ps4/xbone right now, due to actual new gameplay offerings
[08:09] <daftykins> i would buy none, sir!
[08:09] <directhex> win8 pro at 10am!
[08:11] <daftykins> hahaha
[08:11] <directhex> lumia 820 at 2pm!
[08:13] <ali1234> piglet sounds tempting
[08:15] <daftykins> 22% off Wii U
[08:15] <daftykins> lol 99% claimed already wth
[08:15] <directhex> 120gb ssd at 4:30
[08:16] <daftykins> i wonder what this Deus Ex HR Director's Cut really adds
[08:19] <directhex> daftykins, you want to know?
[08:21] <daftykins> just looked it up
[08:21] <directhex> daftykins, better textures, integrating the DLC into the main game rather than having it as a separate app, better boss fights, and valve-style commentary
[08:27] <daftykins> mm-hmm, indeed
[08:30] <MooDoo> Finally that's me gone from the Fedora Project....
[08:31] <daftykins> bad things occurred?
[08:31] <MooDoo> daftykins: no not at all, just thought it was unfair that as i'm more into this project and have been for awhile that I carry on with my mentor duties there.
[08:32] <MooDoo> daftykins: they have an ambassador program and I was a UK mentor
[08:33] <daftykins> ah
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> If you are interested in the area of software patents and Free Software this is worth a gander... http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2013/11/taming-software-patents-for-gnu-gpld-code/index.htm
[08:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> My twitter stream has just been bombarded by pics from a web dev conference in Wales this morning called #Handheld. LINGsCARS has used a Dalek as the presenter!
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/maddesigns/status/406068266793467904/photo/1/large
[08:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Conference was yesterday. But anyway.
[08:56] <arsen> i bought the 240gig SSD the other day, delivered yesterday, DD'd my disk onto it and playing games on it last night :D
[08:59] <popey> xnox: jolla phone uses btrfs.. just sayin' ☻
[08:59] <popey> Morning all.
[08:59] <daftykins> morning sir
[08:59] <MooDoo> morning popey
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:00] <MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS :)
[09:00] <daftykins> time to beat simply mail solutions around the head
[09:00] <popey> \o/ printer has been dispatched
[09:00] <popey> going to spend the day looking out the window for the delivery dude
[09:01] <daftykins> hehehe
[09:01] <daftykins> webcam!
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:01] <daftykins> motion detection + audible alarms
[09:01] <daftykins> if you're really cunning, identify the delivery firm from the footage :>
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> any chef gurus in here? :)
[09:02] <directhex> if you're extra cunning, order from companies using DPD so you have a 1 hour delivery slot
[09:02] <directhex> MartijnVdS, don't undercook poultry!
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> directhex: Sure, but I'm talking about the other chef
[09:02] <popey> bork bork bork!
[09:03]  * directhex rolls the dice
[09:03] <directhex> your CouchDB configuration is bad.
[09:03] <arsen> XD
[09:03]  * directhex rolls the dice
[09:03] <directhex> apache-solr needs to be reinstalled
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> I'm just writing my first recipes..
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> and I'm confused
[09:03]  * directhex rolls the dice
[09:03] <arsen> directhex  could do linux comedy standup.
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> arsen: he'd get boo-ed off stage
[09:04] <directhex> oh, of course you don't use chef's init script, you run it via cron!
[09:04]  * directhex rolls the dice
[09:04] <directhex> wrong erlang version.
[09:04] <arsen> i get the impression directhex has suffered chef before.
[09:04] <directhex> arsen, this is opscode chef standup!
[09:04]  * directhex rolls the dice
[09:04]  * arsen is playing with puppet atm.
[09:04] <directhex> no, those instructions only work for tarballs, not for the Debian packages
[09:05]  * TheOpenSourcerer is hungry - might have to wander over to the station and get a sausage roll or something...
[09:05]  * directhex rolls the dice
[09:05] <directhex> ah, your $PATH is wrong. that changed between chef versions. sorry
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> anyway.. I'm wondering if adding an "execute" block will *always* execute, or if it will only execute if I trigger it from something else. (I want the second one)
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> resource is the name I guess
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> instead of 'block'
[09:13] <mungbean> morning chaps
[09:15] <MooDoo> mungbean: morning :) and don't forget Myrtti she's not a chap ;) hee hee
[09:16] <mungbean> haven't seen her this morning though ;P
[09:16]  * mungbean scrolls back
[09:16] <mungbean> bit chatty this morning aren't we?
[09:16] <Myrtti> I'm always here.
[09:17] <MooDoo> mungbean: it's the storm before the lull ;)
[09:17] <Myrtti> even when I've detached tmux, I get push notifications to my phone if someone mentions my nickname
[09:17] <mungbean> typical, yesterday my wife had to poke me to wake up to do the early start with baby, today when its her turn i'm wide awake for 2 hrs waiting for the alarm
[09:19]  * popey notes company 08768324 on companieshouse.gov.uk has an interesting name
[09:19] <arsen> risky information to share Myrtti
[09:19] <popey> "DROP TABLE CONSULTANTS; LTD"
[09:19] <Myrtti> arsen: not really, I can always set it to ignore persistant spammers
[09:20] <arsen> spose, annoyingly my 'friends' are the kinda poeople that drop me messages in the middle of the night :D
[09:20] <Myrtti> arsen: also my phone is on mute during night hours
[09:20]  * popey hugs irssinotifier
[09:20] <popey> will need to do something similar for ubuntu touch
[09:20] <popey> kinda implemented it with irssi proxy, but not the same
[09:21] <arsen> ooh, thanks for the hint, popey.
[09:21]  * arsen checks out irssinotifier
[09:22] <Myrtti> I ended up flashing my Galaxy Nexus with CM in the end and there's lots of stuff there I miss in the stock Android
[09:24] <mungbean> needs to write a 3 line bio
[09:25] <MooDoo> Myrtti: did you use the new tool to flash it before it was removed from google play?
[09:25] <Myrtti> MooDoo: no, didn't bother
[09:26] <ali1234> http://seravo.fi/2013/jolla-phone-first-impressions
[09:26] <ali1234> interchangable backs with/without keyboard... that's a great idea
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> can't.. tell.. if.. sarcastic...
[09:27] <ali1234> well, most people are very opinionated on keyboards
[09:28] <ali1234> half say "i won't buy a phone without keyboard" and the other half say "keyboards are stupid, why would i ever use that"
[09:28] <mungbean> even non-autistic people get a bit autistic on keyboards
[09:28] <schwuk> popey: sounds like little bobby setup a business
[09:29] <ali1234> i don't expect many people will be swapping the back on a regular basis but if it keeps costs down (and it will, because they don't need to make two fully different phones) then that's great
[09:29] <popey> he's all grown up
[09:29]  * mungbean wonders where all his colleagues are today
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://imgur.com/7OQBDnO
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> popey: also, https://twitter.com/khalleth/status/398863797760184320
[09:44] <popey>    58 root      20   0     0    0    0 R  64.9  0.0  21:31.30 kswapd0
[09:44] <popey> eek
[09:44] <popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  6205604 used,  1850924 free,     1232 buffers
[09:44] <popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  8265076 used,     2696 free,   956336 cached
[09:44]  * popey closes some chromium tabs
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> kill something! quick!
[09:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops - Perhaps the US DoD should have used Free Software: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25137089
[09:46] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493309/
[09:46] <popey> ☹
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: are you one of those people who never closes a tab ;)
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> a "tab hoarder" ;)
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> alord@hrun:~$ top
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> top - 09:47:01 up  2:11,  2 users,  load average: 0.32, 0.56, 0.46
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Tasks: 197 total,   1 running, 194 sleeping,   0 stopped,   2 zombie
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> %Cpu(s):  1.3 us,  0.4 sy,  0.0 ni, 98.2 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> KiB Mem:   3842640 total,  3675536 used,   167104 free,   164936 buffers
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> KiB Swap:  3999740 total,     7520 used,  3992220 free,  1289992 cached
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer>  2559 alord     20   0 1461m 481m  51m S   1.7 12.8  16:38.52 firefox
[09:47] <popey> not really
[09:47] <popey> i used to
[09:47] <ali1234> how did you manage to achieve 8GB swap used?
[09:47] <popey> well indeed!
[09:47] <dwatkins> must be all those tabs
[09:47] <ali1234> that would take several days on my system
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> 27 tabs
[09:47] <popey>  09:47:45 up 5 days, 12:30,  4 users,  load average: 2.41, 3.75, 3.11
[09:47] <ali1234> from the point where it started swapping
[09:48] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ ps aux | grep -c chromium-browser
[09:48] <popey> 55
[09:48] <ali1234> during which the computer would be entirely unusable
[09:48] <popey> its usable for me
[09:48] <popey> ssd may help that
[09:48] <popey> 95 degrees C
[09:48] <ali1234> any swapping at all completely freezes my computer
[09:49] <ali1234> the USB I/O problems persist too
[09:49] <popey> I am using upstream 3.12
[09:49] <ali1234> i was flashing a ISO to USB yesterday, the I/O load created by doing this cut off my network
[09:49] <popey> doing mad amounts of context switching
[09:51] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493316/
[09:51] <ali1234> i wonder if cgroups can finally provide the facility of memory and swap priority on processes
[09:51] <popey> I had a hangout running up until line 23
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: last time I had that was in the USB1 days, when the Linux USB stack was in its infancy
[09:51] <popey> i still get it now
[09:52] <Myrtti> oh man, work has company wide mandatory 'development days' on 2nd of Jan - and Sherlock is on on 1st
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: It is?
[09:53] <Laney> pgrep -f -c chromium-browser!
[09:53] <Myrtti> yes, gatiss announced it on Twitter about 5 minutes ago
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: \o/
[09:53] <ali1234> "development days" = skiving, right?
[09:53] <Myrtti> https://twitter.com/Markgatiss/status/406357930083360768
[09:54] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Electronic Greetings Day! :-D
[09:54] <MooDoo> Myrtti: i need to work with your company lol
[09:54] <Laney> a development day is a free day off?
[10:03] <MooDoo> JamesTait: 01001000 01000101 01001100 01001100 01001111
[10:11]  * MartijnVdS sends a mail to popey about command line history
[10:13]  * TheOpenSourcerer loves CTL+R with a passion :-D
[10:14] <popey> I've only recently started using that
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you'll love this then: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/1288/preserve-bash-history-in-multiple-terminal-windows
[10:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:14] <MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
[10:15] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:16] <xnox> does that actually work.
[10:16]  * xnox never seems to get multi-bash history work.
[10:16] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:17] <popey> http://pragprog.com/ - books half price with code turkey2013
[10:18] <bigcalm> Are they a good publisher?
[10:18] <Myrtti> brilliant day for the Internet to stop working properly
[10:19] <MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
[10:19] <bigcalm> o/
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I will try that - it is indeed somewhat annoying how each terminal is treated separately.
[10:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> But of course I now need a common .bashrc across loads of different servers ;-)
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it won't work across servers, obviously (as history is stored in ~/.bash_history)
[10:21]  * TheOpenSourcerer dreams of a symlink over ssh
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> it would work if those servers shared home dirs
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I didn;t mean a common bash history. I meant a common .bashrc
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I sync mine over U1
[10:22] <popey> yeah, have a common one in a synced folder
[10:22] <popey> and call it from .bashrc
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - I don't use U1 or other cloud things on our customer servers
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if I could put it in git???
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: put it in chef/puppet/... ;)
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> WTF is chef/puppet?
[10:24] <bigcalm> Muppets?
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.opscode.com/chef/ http://puppetlabs.com/
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: basically, a central repository for all your server configs, so you can replace/rebuild them quickly (or add new ones, etc.)
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you usually choose one, not both at the same time ;)
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: might be useful if you're setting up a big cluster of similar machines.. ;)
[10:33] <Myrtti> oh great, I can't even go to the talktalk website to see if they're having problems
[10:33]  * Myrtti sometimes forgets she has tinternets in the phone too
[10:34] <dwatkins> Myrtti: this one? http://www.talktalk.co.uk/servicestatus/
[10:35] <popey> hah
[10:35] <popey> ustream app on ps4, their top live show is pr0n
[10:35] <popey> quality
[10:35] <Laney> heh
[10:35] <Laney> mine just arrived
[10:35] <Myrtti> dwatkins: probably "The server at talktalk.co.uk is taking too long to respond."
[10:35] <dwatkins> Myrtti: bah, they seem to have several open issues anyway
[10:36] <Myrtti> atleast it's not Tuesday when this is happening
[10:36] <Myrtti> I have two Google Hangouts then
[10:36] <Myrtti> now I only have a AC meeting
[10:39] <Myrtti> looks like a lot of stuff I use daily have been blackholed somehow
[10:41]  * TheOpenSourcerer left talktalk a couple of months ago as they were just *so* rubbish.
[10:44] <Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: the idea has crossed my mind several times, but somehow there's always been some valid points why we've not done it yet
[10:45] <Myrtti> I just might have a discussion about this with dsample again tonight, I'm sure he'll agree if his annoyance on not being able to browse autotrader is bad enough
[10:47] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: My predecessor changed most of the phones & broadband to TalkTalk just before I started, its been a completely awful change, took months to get the phone lines set up properly, I wish he'd asked me before he changed
[11:03] <DJones> I wish I knew why our enquiries@ email address keeps getting mail asking if we have any hotel room vacancies for ../../.... dates, we're a bloody tyre fitters, what do they think we're going to do, house people in old tyres
[11:04] <bigcalm> How is variety still not in the USC? Tsk
[11:05] <bigcalm> DJones: google for that email address
[11:06] <DJones> To be honest, they go straight into the junk mail anyway so get ignored, just have to wonder how they decided to send the spam anyway
[11:06] <awilkins> I keep getting phone calls asking for various scrap car parts because my phone number is the same as a scrap yard but the scrapyard has a Manchester area code
[11:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> We get calls for Maplins Support ;-)
[11:07] <bigcalm> Our office number ends 76. Another web dev company has the same number, ending 79. That was annoying for a while
[11:11] <popey> bigcalm: because the developer never submitted it to usc
[11:11] <popey> ask him to
[11:11] <popey> then davmor2 can approve it
[11:11] <bigcalm> Oh, odd
[11:11] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:11] <popey> see, not everything is our fault
[11:11] <bigcalm> Hehe :P
[11:12] <davmor2> meh who didn't do what now
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: sorry about the LUG
[11:13] <davmor2> bigcalm: I was just getting ready to go and james turned up so we just had a chat about life and work and I gave him a tour of the phone :)
[11:14] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:14] <bigcalm> davmor2: just James, no Gretchen?
[11:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: Gretchen wasn't feeling on top of the world.
[11:15] <bigcalm> :(
[11:15] <davmor2> yeah I said to pass on my regards
[11:16] <bigcalm> I hope she'll be okay to come to the meal on the 11th
[11:19] <dutchie> ooh, variety? not heard of that
[11:20] <bigcalm> dutchie: http://peterlevi.com/variety/how-to-install/
[11:20] <dutchie> it'd be an improvement on my current system of dubious shell scripts
[11:20] <dutchie> yeah, just googled it
[11:20] <bigcalm> Ah, fair enough :)
[11:20] <bigcalm> I just added a comment suggesting he submit it to the USC
[11:20] <dutchie> cool :)
[11:21] <dutchie> now, back to work
[11:22] <bigcalm> Does anybody know how to restrict sudo so that a given user can only sudo as another given user?
[11:26] <dwatkins> can't you just remove them from the admin group, bigcalm?
[11:26] <davmor2> dwatkins: what admin group
[11:27] <dutchie> remove them from sudo group, and add something like "user = ALL(target_user) ALL" to /etc/sudoers
[11:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: I think you can just remove them from sudoers
[11:27] <dwatkins> oh sorry, got confused between OS X and Ubuntu/Linux
[11:27] <bigcalm> Humm
[11:27] <dutchie> bigcalm: man 5 sudoers
[11:27] <davmor2> dwatkins: no there used to be an admin group it got removed
[11:28] <dutchie> it's just called "sudo" now
[11:28] <dwatkins> ah ok, at least it's not the confusingly-named "wheel" ;)
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> bsd--
[11:29] <dutchie> (don't forget to use visudo to edit sudoers)
[11:31] <bigcalm> I added this to /etc/sudoers: hayley	ALL=(iain) ALL
[11:31] <bigcalm> I logged in as hayley and tried: sudo su - iain
[11:31] <bigcalm> I got this error: Sorry, user hayley is not allowed to execute '/bin/su - iain' as root on proliant.discworld.cuth.eu.
[11:32] <dwatkins> I wanted to allow sudo with no password for specific commands, but couldn't find the part of the documentation that explained this in anything but extremely complex terms.
[11:33] <bigcalm> And yet...
[11:33] <bigcalm> hayley@proliant:~$ sudo -u iain whoami
[11:33] <bigcalm> iain
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: echo $USER
[11:33] <bigcalm> So how do I let hayley become iain?
[11:33] <Laney> "as root" is the key
[11:34] <dutchie> bigcalm: sudo -u iain -i
[11:34] <Laney> sudo -u iain -i?
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: sudo -u iain -i
[11:34] <dutchie> lol
[11:34] <Laney> HAHA!
[11:34] <bigcalm> Yay !
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> $HOME will be correct now as well
[11:35] <dutchie> dwatkins: user = ALL NOPASSWD: /bin/foo, /usr/bin/bar
[11:35] <dutchie> er
[11:35] <dutchie> move the = one word left
[11:35] <dutchie> but that should work
[11:36] <dwatkins> thanks dutchie :)
[11:36] <ali1234> is there like, reverse sudo?
[11:36] <ali1234> where you have to type your password to run a command as yourself
[11:37] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:38] <dutchie> ali1234: you could write a wrapper around bash -e and set it as login shell or something
[11:38] <ali1234> i have done that, but it's kind of messy
[11:38] <penguin42> ali1234: su nobody ?
[11:39] <ali1234> so i have some piece of software and i want it to a) always run as a specific user, and b) require me to type my password whenever i try to run it
[11:40] <ali1234> i implemented this by shadowing the binary with a script in ~/bin with the same name, which does sudo -u <user> <program> $@
[11:40] <ali1234> but this is kind of hacky and i thought maybe there was a better way
[11:41] <ali1234> maybe with setuid and "reverse sudo" (which is something i just made up)
[11:41] <penguin42> ali1234: Ah, with selinux I think you could do that by having to change context/policy/whatever it's called - not sure how to without
[11:41] <dutchie> could do some wacky permissions like 750 or something?
[11:41] <directhex> only £9.99 for WoW Mists of Pandaria on Amazon Black Friday! do NOT pay attention to the £7 price on Blizzard's website!
[11:41] <dutchie> for (a) at least
[11:41] <penguin42> ali1234: You could just put the program on a directory that was only visible to a particular user
[11:42] <ali1234> i could, but then i wouldn't be able to run it...
[11:42] <ali1234> i want to avoid the need for the script
[11:42] <ali1234> i mean that's effectively what i've done
[11:42] <dutchie> why not just sudo -u user by hand?
[11:42] <ali1234> the user that really runs it can't see the script, cos it's in my normal user homedir
[11:43] <dutchie> anyway i should be doing topology
[11:43] <ali1234> and my user can't "see" the really binary because the script shadows it
[11:53] <bigcalm> popey: davmor2: http://peterlevi.com/variety/about-variety/#comment-8430
[11:58] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeah he went through the old queue via the ARB.
[12:10] <directhex> Azelphur, is there any cryptocurrency right now worth mining on a geforce?
[12:11] <ali1234> directhex: maybe primecoin on cpu?
[12:11] <directhex> ali1234, my CPU is 5 years old :/
[12:12] <popey> bigcalm: great, get submitting!
[12:12] <ali1234> apparently there's a gpu miner for it now
[12:19] <bigcalm> popey: me submit? I'm confused
[12:19] <popey> he said anyone could submit
[12:19] <bigcalm> But it would also mean me maintaining the package
[12:20] <penguin42> directhex: Buy it cake?
[12:20] <ali1234> how does variety change the wallpaper? by what api?
[12:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeah you wanted it in USC :P You get to look after it :D
[12:21] <davmor2> ali1234: magic
[12:21] <bigcalm> I stated surprise only
[12:22] <bigcalm> dbus?
[12:22] <ali1234> it claims to work on xubuntu but i find that hard to believe
[12:22] <bigcalm> I wrote a background changer a very long time agao
[12:22] <ali1234> considering all the pain i went through the past week fixing xubuntu wallpaper rendering
[12:23] <ali1234> unless it just opens a window over your existing desktop
[12:23] <bigcalm> This takes me back a bit: http://lazygnome.net/projects/mdebc/0.1/mdebc-pl.txt
[12:24] <penguin42> ali1234: xsetroot ?
[12:24] <ali1234> no, xsetroot absolutely doesn't work in xubuntu
[12:24] <MooDoo> bigcalm: 2006 :)
[12:24] <bigcalm> MooDoo: happy times ;)
[12:25] <penguin42> ali1234: yeh I mean it's not worked for a long long time
[12:25] <ali1234> it doesn't work with compositing WM
[12:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: you saying you're unhappy now?
[12:25] <penguin42> ali1234: Perhaps it just has a list of different environments and what to do in each case?
[12:25] <ali1234> hsetroot does, if the WM supports it, which xfwm4 does, but only when you use my patches
[12:26] <ali1234> but xfdesktop does not, so if that's running, you won't actually see the hsetroot wallpaper (xfwm4 will draw it, then xfdesktop will draw on top, hiding it)
[12:27] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'm happy that it's Friday and I get to stay with my parents this weekend. Most of my time will be spent replacing the HDD with an SSD in my father's laptop and then a reinstall of Windows 7
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: heh, that sounds like my weekend
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: excepy my dad has Win8 to put on the SSD, and he's reasonable computer-savvy (he taught me how to code, long long ago ;)
[12:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: take a usb caddie drop the ssd in it dd the hdd to the ssd, plug in the ssd start the laptop
[12:30] <bigcalm> davmor2: I could copy one to the other, but I don't want to. It's time for a fresh install
[12:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: Ah fair enough
[12:32] <bigcalm> Plus, the SSD is smaller than the HDD. So it wouldn't be happy
[12:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: you might want to grab the sp's for win7 on a cd that would speed things up a bit
[12:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: you could clonezilla/fog it that would take care of it :)
[12:32] <bigcalm> davmor2: I have access to the MS partner thingy, I don't see the SPs as a download
[12:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5842 but it should be on msdn
[12:36] <bigcalm> Aha
[12:40] <bigcalm> Ta
[12:41]  * bigcalm hunts for a DVD-R
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Really? -R not +R?
[12:42] <bigcalm> Oh, it appears that I have +R
[12:42] <bigcalm> From 2003
[12:44] <popey> so many exciting things arriving on a friday!
[12:44] <popey> new printer, new usb hub
[12:44] <popey> its like christmas!
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: Sinterklaas is next week ;)
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
[12:45] <penguin42> which printer?
[12:45] <popey> hp thingy
[12:45] <popey> colour multifunction
[12:46]  * Laney got new PS4 :>
[12:46] <popey> cock, I thought I'd bought a usb3 one
[12:46] <popey> ah no, i decided not to didnt I
[12:51] <MooDoo> Laney: my work collegue has one on his desk right now
[12:51] <Laney> for himself?
[12:51] <MooDoo> yeah
[12:51] <Laney> I love those days
[12:51] <Laney> really keen to get home
[12:51] <MooDoo> you sounds just like my friend
[12:52] <Laney> I'm already at home, so get to play at lunch :>
[12:54] <dwatkins> I considered getting a PS4, but I still have plenty of stuff to do is KSP.
[12:54] <dwatkins> *in
[12:54] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493920/ hub nearly full already!
[13:09] <davmor2> popey: what size hub, and why didn't you get the hp multicolour thingy that is wireless so it doesn't need a usb port ;)
[13:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Unusual vehicle parked in our car park today... http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaPc19PCUAAoiqz.jpg:large
[13:17] <GentileBen> dwatkins we should start an #ubuntu-uk clan.
[13:17] <GentileBen> MartijnVdS I feel the need to raise the spectre of Zwarte Piet yet again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
[13:30] <GentileBen> http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/29/morrissey-attacks-us-obama-thanksgiving lol, I'm sure Obama cares what a 1980s UK musician thinks.
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> "musician"... Hmmm, I'd use that term rather loosely myself
[13:31] <penguin42> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fEer4hvILSE/UpX8En17cVI/AAAAAAAACy8/N50-W4CT6Bk/w350-h384-no/2013+-+1
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[13:38] <popey> davmor2: I *did* get a networked printer, the USB hub is for the USB devices on my desk
[13:38] <penguin42> popey: What are colour lasers like for images these days?
[13:38] <popey> dunno, not using it for that
[13:38] <GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer: I used to defend Morrissey from the red tops until I actually listened to Morrissey giving his opinions on things.
[13:38] <penguin42> popey: Well yeh, I know you're mostly using it for printing fivers, but I just wondered
[13:39] <GentileBen> He's one of the most ignorant celebrities I know of.
[13:39] <popey> heh
[13:39] <GentileBen> I'd rather hang out with Jade Goody's ghost than Morrissey.
[13:41] <mungbean> :-|
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> they're "okay"
[13:43] <popey> well.. printing to that printer from OSX caused it to obtain a 169 style bonjour IP
[13:43] <popey> which confused me for a bit
[13:43] <mungbean> is it true that printers have a unique "invisbile yellow code" to detect the oringitaor of said fiver
[13:43] <mungbean> of is that photocopiers
[13:44] <popey> yes
[13:44] <popey> https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/
[13:44] <ali1234> it's both
[13:45] <mungbean> where on the page?where on the page are those dots?
[13:45] <mungbean> woops
[13:45] <penguin42> all over
[13:45] <mungbean> The same grid is printed repeatedly over the entire page, but the repetitions of the grid are offset slightly from one another so that each grid is separated from the others
[13:47] <mungbean> felt v nervous spending a £50 note the other day
[13:49] <popey>  3989 alan      20   0 2095m 467m 1764 S   5.3  5.9 108:53.05 hud-service
[13:49] <popey> bah
[13:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Noodles!
[13:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> In a Pot!
[13:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bombay Bad Boy for lunch :-D
[13:52] <diplo> mungbean: Nice to have one!
[13:52] <diplo> :)
[13:52] <popey> yes! noodles, great idea
[13:52] <diplo> Yuk, can't stand pot noodles
[13:52] <GentileBen> I just realised I have The Communist Manifesto next to Atlas Shrugged in my bookshelf. How...coincidental.
[13:54] <ali1234> pics or it didn't happen
[13:57] <mungbean> diplo: unfortunately it was cash in hand for buying stuff off my credit card for a friend without a CC :S
[13:57] <mungbean> so i've spent the money and will pay when the cc bill comes :(
[13:59] <diplo> heh, I always do that as well.. wish people would do bank transfers as I'm more likely to pay CC off
[13:59] <diplo> I don't think I've been into the bank in 3+ years
[14:01] <ali1234> if you're worried about fake bills you can get some of those detector pens
[14:01] <ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Helix-Counterfeit-Currency-Detector-Pen/dp/B000I5SB3A
[14:07] <MooDoo> the pens aren't that reliable though
[14:11] <ali1234> they'll detect if someone gives you a 50 they printed on their inkjet printer though :)
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> and who doesn't, in these days of economic distress
[14:15] <popey> Hm. My laptop just spontaneously suspended
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> Low power?
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> Wrong Fn combination key accidentally?
[14:17] <shauno> put a magnet too close to the front of a mac?  ;)
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it's his personality.. too magnetic 8-)
[14:18] <popey> i was watching a video, not touching the keyboard
[14:18] <popey> it could have been a momentary power blip
[14:18] <popey> but my desktop and server didnt go out
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: could it have been suspend because it was idle?
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> say, 30 minutes idle = suspend
[14:19] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6494234/
[14:19] <popey> nope
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: too hot?
[14:19] <bigcalm> Laptops have a built in UPS ;)
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: try dmesg -T for human-readable timestamps on that
[14:19] <penguin42> popey: Admit it you've got a 0 14 * * 5 pm-suspend # weekend
[14:19] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6494238/
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: that ends 2 days ago..
[14:20] <shauno> laptops have a builtin UPS .. until the power fluctuation is anything over than a straight blackout.  and then you discover they have no protection against surge/spike/brown/etc
[14:20] <popey> wtf
[14:20] <ali1234> my syslog is just: "Nov 29 14:12:24 al-desktop whoopsie[1342]: online" over and over again
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> whoopsie!
[14:21] <popey> why has dmesg stopped
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: the timestamps might be "off" because you've suspended often
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: check /var/log/kern.log to be sure
[14:21] <popey> Nov 29 14:17:17 deep-thought kernel: [296851.534664] CPU3: Core temperature/speed normal
[14:22] <popey> last line of that file
[14:22] <ali1234> what file is it?
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> has the system been asleep for 2 days total since boot? :)
[14:22]  * popey shrugs
[14:22] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6494244/
[14:23] <popey> overheat
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: maybe one of these can help minimize that? http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/laptop%20cooling%20pad/products
[14:24] <penguin42> popey: THis laptop seems to be running hot with +1 on it - It's a while since it's had Ubuntu on this one but ht eprevious Arch and opensuse weren't running the fan like Ubuntu is, not sure what's different
[14:25] <popey> no good MartijnVdS its in a docking station
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: oh, hmm.. :(
[14:26] <bigcalm> binary drivers not doing their job in keeping the GPU tempt down and having a knock on to the CPU?
[14:27] <penguin42> bigcalm: This box is plain intel
[14:27] <bigcalm> Ah
[14:40] <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/393053146/powerup-30-smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane
[14:43] <ali1234> nakamura lock \o/
[14:46] <popey> never heard of it..
[14:46] <popey> now I have
[14:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That has been rather successful!
[14:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> 4x funded in what? 3 days?
[14:47] <ali1234> i'm constantly amazed how few people in the uk know how to fold the nakamura lock... even fewer know the name of it
[14:47] <ali1234> i was taught it by an american kid at my school
[14:52] <bigcalm> Oh, it's available for android as well as iOS. I'll back it then :)
[14:52] <bigcalm> Hang on, Android 4.3? I am stuck on 4.1.2 :(
[14:53] <popey> by the time you get it... next year though..?
[14:53] <ali1234> i kind of doubt it really needs 4.3
[14:53] <bigcalm> popey: good point
[14:53] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: how's your SGS3 coping?
[14:53] <popey> I backed it ☻
[14:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's a bit fscked bigcalm
[14:55] <bigcalm> :(
[14:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> It works but the 4.3 update was really pants.
[14:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes you can't answer the phone - screen won't turn on...
[14:55] <Myrtti> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1470156778/wipebook <-- dsample backed this few days back after I showed it to him seeing Xalior had backed it first
[14:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Battery drains much faster.
[14:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Occasional total lock ups - remove the battery job.
[14:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> But other than that it's fine :-)
[14:58] <bigcalm> Myrtti: that looks funky
[14:59] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: have you considered wiping it and starting fresh?
[14:59] <popey> DAMMIT
[14:59] <popey> [299369.229049] thinkpad_acpi: EC reports that Thermal Table has changed
[14:59] <popey> [299370.273453] thinkpad_acpi: EC reports that Thermal Table has changed
[15:00]  * popey logs out/in
[15:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Yes.
[15:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer has also considered CM
[15:00] <Azelphur> Newegg has 3TB HDDs for $89.99 (£55) fyi folks
[15:00] <Azelphur> deal will probably only last the day
[15:01] <popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  2075896 used,  5980632 free,   128184 buffers
[15:01] <popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,   220516 used,  8047256 free,  1035996 cached
[15:01] <popey> better
[15:01] <penguin42> Azelphur: ebuyer listing them at 75 on discount
[15:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> but at this moment isn't that bothered. TBH my phone is mostly used for email and as a camera + a bit of social networking. It works... Just.
[15:02] <Azelphur> penguin42: yea, £20 more :)
[15:02] <popey> isnt newegg USA though?
[15:02] <popey> so you'll have VAT etc to pay
[15:02] <Azelphur> popey: yea, but it's easy enough to get one, just get someone to ship you one in (Plenty of people on -otc would do it)
[15:02] <penguin42> popey: Hmm on an item under #100? Maybe
[15:02] <Azelphur> I never paid VAT on the ones I brought in last year :x
[15:04] <AlanBell> in syslog I get this "Nov 29 15:02:05 alanlaptop kernel: [421324.992804] [drm:intel_update_fbc], more than one pipe active, disabling compression" 76 times a second
[15:05] <popey> nice
[15:05] <popey> \o/ intel
[15:05] <ali1234> AlanBell: ok you win :)
[15:06] <Laney> muhahaha
[15:07] <Laney> I didn't get a code with my PS4 for some DLC that I should have had. Complained to Amazon. £63.75 refund \o/
[15:08] <Myrtti> why am I crying when watching a kickstarter project video about cast iron pots and pans? OMG Miia get a grip
[15:08] <Myrtti> (they are very beautiful though)
[15:08] <Laney> was expecting a fiver and a packet of crisps
[15:09] <penguin42> why do they need to kickstart making cast iron pots and pans - it's been done for centuries without kickstarter
[15:10] <ali1234> magic internet cast-iron pots and pans?
[15:11] <Myrtti> why do they need kickstarter to make wallets, watches, magazines, phones...
[15:11] <Myrtti> it's been done for decades, if not centuries!
[15:12] <diddledan> AlanBell: I hope your system isn't on an SSD with writes to disc at least 76 times a second
[15:12] <AlanBell> diddledan: it sure is
[15:13]  * AlanBell thinks SSD fud is fud
[15:15] <diddledan> it might be fud, but the ideas it's based on are true in that an ssd does have a finite amount of writes before it can't write no more
[15:16] <popey> not anywhere near as low number of writes as people will have you believe
[15:16] <Seeker`> so does a HDD in practice :P
[15:16] <Seeker`> spinning mechanical parts can only spin for so long...
[15:18] <ali1234> i've got harddrives over 10 years old that still work
[15:18] <ali1234> actually by now some of them must be getting on for 20 years
[15:18] <AlanBell> and no SSDs over 10 years old that still work I bet :)
[15:18] <ali1234> no
[15:18] <AlanBell> proof!
[15:19] <ali1234> i did have memory cards 10 years ago - none of them still work though
[15:21] <ali1234> i was thinking of getting a ssd the other day actually
[15:21] <penguin42> they are wonderful as boot disk
[15:21] <ali1234> i only boot about twice a month though
[15:22] <popey> s/boot/root/
[15:23] <ali1234> after i've booted everything is in ram
[15:29] <bigcalm> Importing 2.9GB mysql dump takes it's sweet time on my proliant micro server :(
[15:29] <diddledan> bigcalm: that's a big database dump
[15:30] <diddledan> bigcalm: are you allowed to tell us where it's from (type of application e.g.)
[15:30] <bigcalm> diddledan: it is rather large, and will only grow with time
[15:30] <bigcalm> diddledan: not really :(
[15:31] <bigcalm> Erm, a monitoring application is possibly as vague as I can be :)
[15:31]  * AlanBell imported the precise location of every postcode in the UK into mysql in 17 seconds earlier
[15:31] <diddledan> bigcalm: figured as much - don't worry, I understand that quite often things can't be discussed. it's just the nature of business
[15:31]  * penguin42 notes precise and postcode are generally a bit incompatible
[15:32] <diplo> bigcalm: Still doing PHP ?
[15:32] <bigcalm> diplo: aye, it pays the bills :)
[15:32] <diplo> Or anyone else I guess, what do you use ( if at all ) to export to Excel
[15:32] <diplo> ?
[15:33] <bigcalm> PHPExcel :)
[15:33] <bigcalm> It's a great lib
[15:33] <bigcalm> Use it daily
[15:33] <diddledan> penguin42, AlanBell : we had problems with postcode to police-region lookups - aparently some postal code prefixes split between hampshire and scotland
[15:33] <bigcalm> diplo: http://phpexcel.codeplex.com/
[15:33] <diplo> Yeah tis what I use, wants to much on shared hosting and shared hosting exhaust with memory errors :/
[15:33] <bigcalm> Poo
[15:34] <diplo> I've used the pear one before that's defunct and that worked with same data so pretty sure its a phpexcel issue
[15:34] <diplo> Again, I need to move my hosting..
[15:34] <diplo> :/
[15:35] <penguin42> diddledan: Hampshire and scotland?!
[15:35] <diddledan> penguin42: yeah, I can't remember the exact details but my boss put his postal code from some backwater in hampshire into our system and it spat out a northern police region
[15:36] <bigcalm> diplo: it's on github now: https://github.com/PHPOffice/PHPExcel
[15:36] <diddledan> this was around a year ago when we were doing choosemypcc.org.uk
[15:36] <bigcalm> Which is handy to use as a git submodule
[15:37] <diplo> I could probably doing with upgrading, reading a few SO posts they have improved it quite a bit.
[15:37] <diplo> Ta for link
[15:38] <bigcalm> Yus
[15:38] <diplo> On 1.7.6 newest is 1.8 i think.
[15:39] <diplo> PITA! I really don't want to make any more fixes :(
[15:39] <bigcalm> That's PHP for you :D
[15:39] <popey> well. phoned up lenovo because of my overheating laptop and they're sending someone on wednesday
[15:39] <popey> that was easy
[15:39] <diplo> Yep vvery true bigcalm, why I want out and into a sysadmin job again
[15:40] <bigcalm> Coo, that mysql dump import is still going on
[15:44] <dwatkins> GentileBen: a clan in KSP?
[15:47] <penguin42> popey: You have onsite support with Lenovo?
[15:47] <popey> yes
[15:47] <popey> cost 45 quid
[15:47] <popey> best 45 quid I have ever spent
[15:47] <popey> this is the third call out
[15:48] <penguin42> do you have to show the problem in Windows or what?
[15:49] <popey> he didnt ask any questions
[15:49] <popey> and i have previously never had any of that nonsense with lenovo
[15:51] <dwatkins> it's PC World that will refuse to support a hardware problem if you have Linux installed
[15:51] <dwatkins> broken hinge? get lost, you put Linux on it!
[15:53] <mungbean> i don't think they would know
[15:54] <mungbean> don't ask don't tell
[15:54]  * TheOpenSourcerer frequently dumps and imports > 1GB mysql databases. Am always amazed at, in reality, how quick it actually is when I ponder the actual volume of data involved.
[15:54]  * TheOpenSourcerer always uses mysqldump and mysql db < sql.file rather than any php malarkey however
[15:54] <awilkins> I used to get Small Business units from Dell rather than home / retail ones
[15:55] <dwatkins> I keep meaning to install a machine with Windows as the default boot option and a quick, blank grub window so that if it gets stolen, it boots into Windows (where I have Prey installed so I can track it etc.).
[15:55] <awilkins> Just because of the onsite support
[15:55] <dwatkins> Naturally I'd boot Ubuntu all the time...
[15:55] <awilkins> Held the phone up to the hard drive when it had a click of death one time. Replacement drive was couriered in 0800 next day.
[15:57] <dwatkins> impressive
[15:58] <penguin42> awilkins: Was that on the bronze/silver/gold support stuff?  I once heard the gold support as like the others but they believed you when you rang them
[15:58] <awilkins> penguin42, Dunno, just the small business next-day support
[15:59] <awilkins> They would also do the silly things like sending a vast box with one "K" type screw in it.
[15:59] <penguin42> haha
[16:00] <awilkins> The K ones are the teensy little grub screws that hold the keyboard in
[16:00] <penguin42> awilkins: Cisco support contracts were good for that; big box with a cardboard envelope floating in it, with an A4 sheet with an ID sticker in one small corner
[16:04] <mungbean> wht makes me sad about kickstarter? add $20 to send outside US
[16:06] <mungbean> wow, that kano kicktarter is $846,000 now
[16:07] <popey> kano?
[16:07] <popey> oh, the computer
[16:07] <diplo> woohoo ini_set worked bigcalm :)
[16:08] <diplo> never used to
[16:08] <bigcalm> Maybe your host has calmed down a bit
[16:08] <diplo> Maybe, well after the errors I got with new phpexcel I'm glad as I really didn't want to debug :)
[16:13] <bigcalm> Just got another spam from the watercress line (yes, I signed up for it). Do people want to do the RAT again next year?
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting chart via Tim O'Reilly https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/116524915824016011781/albums/5950217041981635649/5950217043149210562?pid=5950217043149210562&oid=116524915824016011781
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> IOS is almost flat in terms of overall market share...
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I'm always up for a RAT :-D
[16:14] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: then why did Italy happen? :P
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Work/Business and it's Italy ;-)
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> The RAT is 10mins down the road for me...
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have been on it quite a few times
[16:15] <popey> AlanBell: what do you want me to do with these ethernet bits?
[17:05] <Azelphur> continuing my black friday deals PSAs, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASUS-Google-Nexus-7-FHD-7-32GB-Wi-FI-Android-4-3-2nd-Generation-Tablet-NEW-/281216658647?clk_rvr_id=553908906948
[17:05] <Azelphur> the usual price (direct from google) is £239
[17:08] <daftykins> i guess that's with VAT on, from Google?
[17:08] <Azelphur> daftykins: that's a UK seller, no VAT and free delivery, £189.99 is the price you pay.
[17:09] <popey> thats quite a bargain
[17:09] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:10] <daftykins> but is Google's £239 inclusive?
[17:10] <Azelphur> daftykins: I /think/ google actually charges shipping on top
[17:10] <Azelphur> but not sure
[17:10] <Azelphur> so that deal is at least £50 cheaper than google, more if they charge for delivery
[17:10] <popey> he's asking about VAT, not delivery
[17:11] <daftykins> after all, i'm a 'tax dodger' :>
[17:11] <Azelphur> daftykins: both prices are inc VAT
[17:11] <popey> free delivery
[17:11] <Azelphur> I would think
[17:11] <popey> yes, 239 from goog includes vat
[17:11] <daftykins> hrmm ok so that's 199 straight off
[17:12] <daftykins> vs. 158 if there's a mechanism to get the VAT off on ebay
[17:14] <popey> woudln't be surprised if they aren't paying VAT
[17:16] <daftykins> ah it's a US one too
[17:21] <ali1234> Azelphur: shouldn't you be posting bitcoin deals or something?
[17:22] <Azelphur> ali1234: oh, here's me used to everyone following things
[17:23] <Azelphur> namecheap 10% off for bitcoin payments, 40% off all VPS products for life @ SimpleNode, 35% off all webhosting @ exhosting, 40% off at mixed tees
[17:23] <Azelphur> loads more here http://www.bitcoinblackfriday.com/
[17:27] <Azelphur> 10% off the wikispeed car :o
[17:27] <Azelphur> that's almost tempting, if I get around to learning to drive, I'd probably actually do that
[17:28] <diplo> I'd like 40% off a VPS :)
[17:28] <Azelphur> 109 MPG (record for a road-legal gasoline engine) and only $22k
[17:28] <Azelphur> xD
[17:28] <Azelphur> and it looks pretty sweet too
[17:28] <daftykins> :>
[17:28] <ali1234> ooo, adafruit 10% off...
[17:29] <Azelphur> http://wikispeed.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Roadster_World_Debut_1000px.jpg
[17:29] <awilkins> 158MPG imperial
[17:29] <awilkins> WHOOOO
[17:30] <Azelphur> haha, this car is awesome
[17:30] <Azelphur> it has a bug tracker
[17:31] <Azelphur> "Overheats intermittently." odeer
[17:31] <penguin42> just like Popey's laptop
[17:31] <Azelphur> http://www.ministryofawesome.com/sites/default/files/styles/galleryformatter_slide/public/WIKISPEED_Roadster.jpg look at that though
[17:31] <Azelphur> it's such a nice looking car.
[17:32] <ali1234> well looks like i'm gonna be spending a lot of money at adafruit later
[17:32] <awilkins> "Unstable at highway speed turning"
[17:32] <awilkins> "No fuel gauge"
[17:32] <daftykins> just minor issues then
[17:32] <awilkins> "No wipers"
[17:32] <penguin42> do you think they have a crash catcher?
[17:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: :D
[18:10] <GentileBen> Azelphur, how high do you think BTC is going to be before the next crash?
[18:10] <Azelphur> no idea in all honesty
[18:10] <GentileBen> Don't be coy!!
[18:10] <GentileBen> I know you have the inside track.
[18:10] <GentileBen> You're like the Paul Krugman of cryptonomics.
[18:11] <GentileBen> Yes, I did just coin the neologism "cryptonomics".
[18:11] <Azelphur> lol
[18:12] <Azelphur> I'm dubious about it coming down tbh, it's been so strong recently
[18:12] <GentileBen> Sounds like you're talking about an erection.
[18:13] <Azelphur> lol
[18:13] <GentileBen> I wish I'd invested when it was economical to mine with CPUs...like in the first few weeks.
[18:13] <Azelphur> me too :)
[18:14] <GentileBen> I mined a fraction of a BTC at work using a new server cluster, because back then it was ironic to mine miniscule amounts of coin.
[18:15] <GentileBen> Hmm, how much did mining $111k worth of BTC cost you in $?
[18:45] <Azelphur> ~$5k
[19:11] <diddledan> lol, https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekEnterpriseSeason5NetflixCampaign
[19:11] <diddledan> ignore for a moment that I posted a link to an evil privacy-invading website
[19:15] <GentileBen> Eh....
[19:15] <GentileBen> Why not Firefly?
[19:16] <GentileBen> Of all the shows that Fox has cancelled, Firefly is the one which mades me hurt inside.
[19:16] <diddledan> yeah, firefly was awesome
[19:17] <diddledan> I loved the way they made it feel wild-west
[19:18] <diddledan> and, well.. it had BOITH Jewel Stait AND Summer Glau
[19:18] <diddledan> boith?
[19:20] <GentileBen> Yeah, I saw that deleted lesbian kiss scene with those two.
[19:20] <diddledan> :-)
[19:27] <GentileBen> diddledan, did you just Google "Jewel Stait Summer Glau lesbian kiss Firefly"?
[19:28] <diddledan> I've resisted so far
[20:31] <ali1234> AlanBell: ping
[20:34] <mungbean> buying and selling pages on facebook are full of xbox 360 suddenly
[20:35] <mungbean> paul mcgann is appearing far too much on bbc talking about dr who
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: well Chris Eccleston wouldn't come
[20:53] <mungbean> paul mcgann has about as much credentials as me
[20:53] <DJones> czajkowski: This may be something that interests you http://www.viralnova.com/these-17-naughty-pugs-just-got-shamed-by-their-owners-and-the-result-is-hilarious-lol/
[20:53] <popey> Chris Eccleston did come
[20:53] <popey> he was at one of the 50th anniversary celebrations at the BFI
[20:54] <mungbean> i'm watching some lame "ultaimte guide"
[20:54] <czajkowski> DJones: lol
[20:54] <mungbean> its like a noobs version
[20:54] <mungbean> not sure who would watch it if they weren't a fan , so its silly
[20:55] <czajkowski> DJones: http://cheezburger.com/7925663232  my litle fella
[20:59] <DJones> czajkowski: That looks like typical dog behaviour
[21:00]  * MartijnVdS watches "Being Elmo" on netflix
[21:20] <diddledan> being EMO?
[21:20] <diddledan> :-p
[21:26] <popey> chaps..
[21:26] <popey> http://www.nhs.uk/video/Pages/Antenatalclasses.aspx
[21:26] <popey> need to figure a way to download that video
[21:26] <popey> it's hosted on brightcove
[21:26] <arsen> hm, i think i just cycled past James May in a Maserati.
[21:26] <arsen> I wonder if he likes Ubuntu, i imagine it would be his kinda thing.
[21:27] <popey> he doesn't strike me as techy
[21:27] <popey> in a computer sense
[21:28] <popey> ooh https://code.google.com/p/get-flash-videos/ might do it
[21:32] <ali1234> that's really obviously a tweaked jwplayer
[21:32] <ali1234> which means it probably doesn't do any fancy streaming
[21:32] <ali1234> which means you can cache-grab it
[21:38] <popey> get_flash_videos turns out to be in the repo and it just worked
[23:00] <daftykins> aww that ebay Nexus 7 has disallowed shipping to the Channel Islands
[23:00] <AlanBell> o/ ali1234
[23:00] <daftykins> why there's such hatred for my islands i don't know
[23:00] <ali1234> AlanBell: pm
[23:01] <AlanBell> sure
[23:08] <GentileBen> daftykins you should have it delivered by pelican.
[23:08] <GentileBen> Also - why Ebay? The N7 is cheap enough from Google direct.
[23:08] <daftykins> Google don't honour VAT removal
[23:09] <daftykins> plus the ebay one is cheaper, which was linked earlier
[23:09] <daftykins> it wouldn't be for me anywho
[23:14] <GentileBen> You could have gotten AlanBell to mail it to you.
[23:16] <daftykins> from England? where they pay tax? :D
[23:20] <GentileBen> AlanBell is all under the table.
[23:21] <AlanBell> only after *lots* of beers
[23:21] <AlanBell> what is the question here?
[23:24] <daftykins> ah it doesn't matter so much - i was just remarking on how a cheap ebay seller and Google themselves do not seem to care for us Channel Islanders
[23:24] <daftykins> they either won't subtract VAT or won't post here
[23:27] <GentileBen> What's it like being on the old enemy's doorstep?
[23:31] <AlanBell> daftykins: I used to do some work for an accountancy firm for rich people, they were all about squirreling money about between tax havens, keeping it *just about* clean and above board
[23:32] <daftykins> :o
[23:32] <GentileBen> Aren't the CI a tax haven, AlanBell?
[23:32] <daftykins> GentileBen: not sure i follow that one
[23:33] <daftykins> well sort of - we have our own gov. and don't pay VAT
[23:33] <daftykins> but the cost of living is 1.4x England at least
[23:33] <GentileBen> What about your banking system? The one so enthusiastically embraced by Jimmy Carr.
[23:33] <AlanBell> they have a different tax regime which means that anywhere there is a difference an accountant can put things in the right place
[23:33] <GentileBen> daftykins, how much is a Pot Noodle?
[23:33] <daftykins> we have the UK banks just with 'offshore' status
[23:33] <GentileBen> A regular sized one.
[23:33] <daftykins> i have no idea
[23:34] <GentileBen> You're no man of the people.
[23:34] <GentileBen> Do you not have a Tesco on your island?
[23:34] <daftykins> nope
[23:34] <daftykins> although Waitrose bought out our two main supermarkets
[23:34] <GentileBen> Sainsbury's? Asda? Morrisson's?
[23:34] <GentileBen> *Morrisons
[23:34] <daftykins> no chains nope
[23:35] <GentileBen> Waitrose probably don't sell noodles unless they've been massaged by organic terrapins.
[23:36] <daftykins> :D
[23:37] <daftykins> it's kind of shocking really, i've always had a NatWest account growing up
[23:37] <daftykins> so i go to England for Uni, go into a NatWest branch...
[23:37] <daftykins> nope sorry, you're an offshore customer. we can do nothing with those accounts, you may use the ATM and that is all
[23:40] <penguin42> daftykins: Ah I know there is a Lloyds Offshore that's a separate company, I assume Natwest is the same
[23:43] <GentileBen> daftykins, get AlanBell to set up a proxy account for you.
[23:43] <daftykins> 0o
[23:43] <daftykins> this conversation really got compicated fast XD
[23:43] <GentileBen> My solution to everything is to get AlanBell to do something potentially illegal.
[23:43] <daftykins> lmao
[23:47] <diddledan> my solution to everything is to pay the prostitute so the pimp doesn't break my legs
[23:48] <penguin42> daftykins: Can you pay us in milk
[23:48] <GentileBen> From the prostitute?
[23:48] <penguin42> from the cows
[23:48] <GentileBen> How do we know the prostitutes aren't cows?
[23:49] <penguin42> have you ever seen a cow in high heels and bad make up?
[23:49] <diddledan> ooh, they should make a digital version of milk as a currency like bitcoins are a digital version of pounds shillings and pence, so bitmilk is a virtual version of real milk
[23:49] <penguin42> diddledan: You could call it soya
[23:49] <GentileBen> Soy milk is virtual milk.
[23:49] <GentileBen> Is milking a cow an act of animal abuse, I wonder.
[23:50] <diddledan> GentileBen: it depends whether you enjoy it or not I think
[23:50] <daftykins> diddledan: is that how every Friday night ends up?
[23:50] <diddledan> daftykins: pretty much
[23:50] <diddledan> I didn't know she was a prostitute the first time
[23:51] <diddledan> but once I'd twigged I had to be sure
[23:51] <daftykins> penguin42: ah, tempted to sample the product of our very own Guernsey Golds?
[23:51] <diddledan> guernsey milk had better be awesome
[23:52] <daftykins> it's all i know
[23:52] <penguin42> diddledan: It's supposed to be
[23:52] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gmvr0829tpkazd/IMG_20131127_230500.jpg
[23:52] <daftykins> here's a carton of blue
[23:53] <penguin42> diddledan: where does your electricity come from?
[23:53] <diddledan> penguin42: a box in the cupboard
[23:53] <daftykins> hahaha
[23:53] <penguin42> diddledan: I kind of meant, is it local, french or uk ?
[23:54]  * daftykins forgets where diddledan is from
[23:54] <diddledan> I'm not sure that you can quantify that with the national grib
[23:54] <diddledan> grid
[23:54] <diddledan> daftykins: amazingstoke
[23:54] <penguin42> sorry, I think that question was for daftykins not diddledan
[23:54] <daftykins> ah yes of course
[23:54] <diddledan> too many D names
[23:55] <penguin42> diddledan: I was just thinking that depending on your electricity pricing it might be a good place to run a coin mining op
[23:55] <daftykins> penguin42: we do indeed have a french link cable which runs from them via Jersey, then onto Guernsey. though we also have the local power station as a backup - we used to get so many power cuts when i was growing up
[23:56] <penguin42> daftykins: Interesting, the mainland imports guite a bit of French power, I guess through the same cable
[23:56] <diddledan> I get confused between daftykins and dwatkins  alot because they're both the same length - and my name is the same length again so I'm sure everyone else gets confused between the three of us
[23:56] <daftykins> now it's a lot more reliable, except for when the French link failed once and needed repair
[23:56] <daftykins> didtkins
[23:56] <daftykins> :D
[23:56] <daftykins> oops one short
[23:56] <diddledan> diddlykins?
[23:56] <daftykins> penguin42: mmm not sure, i only know of it stretching out to us


[00:02] <erichammond> will do
[00:02] <erichammond> Let me know if you have any other questions or want me to give feedback on any content.
[00:06] <kim0> erichammond: Thanks man!
[00:06] <kim0> erichammond: drop me a line please if you update the ppa with the dependency .. Thanks
[00:09]  * kim0 → /dev/bed
[04:38] <jmgalloway> anyone online?
[04:38] <flaccid> nope
[07:37] <erichammond> kim0:  ec2-consistent-snapshot 0.37 has been uploaded to the Alestic PPA for Lucid, Maverick, Natty.  It includes the dependency on libnet-amazon-ec2-perl and updated install documentation.
[07:40] <erichammond> All that's needed to install it now is: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alestic && apt-get update && sudo apt-get install ec2-consistent-snapshot
[07:55] <kim0> erichammond: awesome .. you're da man ;)
[08:48] <erichammond> er, sudo apt-get update
[14:21] <atretes> Hi all, I'm currently setting up a cloud base on 10.04 and I've downloaded a repackaged image from ubuntu uec but when I launch it into the cloud and attempt to ssh into it I get 'No route to host'?
[14:25] <atretes> However, I downloaded the 10.04 Lucid image from the Image Store and that image works fine with ssh etc. What could possibly be the problem?
[14:36] <kim0> atretes: did you publish the repackaged image using uec-publish-tarball ?
[14:38] <atretes> kim0: no I used the euca-bundle-image, euca-upload-bundle and euca-register
[14:39] <kim0> atretes: uec-publish-tarball is made to make this procedure easy and error free .. would you mind trying with it ?
[14:39] <smoser> atretes, pastebin euca-get-console-output <instance-id>
[14:39] <smoser> sorry to jump in, kim0 , but want to see if there is anything obvious there.
[14:39] <kim0> sure .. you're da man ;)
[14:39] <smoser> no route to host likely means higher level eucalyptus issues, though, i fear
[14:41] <kim0> smoser: while working with a community fellow yesterday, I noticed a natty instance did not launch in eu-west. Unfortunately I don't know the exact AMI id, but what I'm asking is, do we have some auto-testing of all uploaded AMIs to make sure they can boot and be ssh'able ?
[14:41] <kim0> if not, that'd be a nice tool to write I guess
[14:41] <smoser> we do not.
[14:41] <smoser> yes, we need much test.
[14:42] <smoser> i386 t1.micro is known broken in alpha2
[14:42]  * kim0 notes down
[14:42] <smoser> but all others "should work"
[14:42] <kim0> indeed .. that was probably it
[14:42] <smoser> it does work on dailies now
[14:42] <kim0> and I thought alpha2 had more testing than dailies :)
[14:52] <atretes> smoser, http://pastebin.com/w8gv6Bh8
[14:53] <smoser> well, kim0 it did. i *knew* alpha2 didn't work on t1.micro i386.
[14:53] <smoser> if you asked me about yesterday's daily, i wouldn't have known for sure :)
[14:53] <kim0> atretes: hehe
[14:53] <kim0> sorry .. that was to smoser
[14:53] <smoser> atretes, where did you get this image ?
[14:54] <smoser> it would seem to me that it is a lucid image, and it is waiting on the availability of eth0.
[14:55] <atretes> smoser, I downloaded the tarball from http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/release/ and then added the postgresql package to it by mounting the image via loop and then bundled it with euca2ools
[14:56] <atretes> smoser, might is be a udev issue?
[14:56] <smoser> hm...
[14:57] <RobertLaptop> I have a licensing question.  We are currently using ESXi and wanting to move a more cloud based structure but money is an issue there is no budget for the conversion.  I was looking at various cloud options and found a webnair on ubuntu-cloud but what I can't tell is if you have a CE version or a non-pay version?  Does anyone have an info on that?
[14:57] <atretes> smoser, I tried building my own kvm images from scratch and got the same issue but the image from the Ubuntu Image Store works with no problems
[14:57] <smoser> atretes, could you do me a favor and cut out the "added postgresql package" step ?
[14:57] <smoser> ie, just take the iamge you downloaded, do not modify and test it
[14:57] <smoser> via the same bundle and upload that you did after you modified it
[14:57] <kim0> RobertLaptop: if you don't need support .. you're free to use Ubuntu server/cloud for free forever
[14:59] <RobertLaptop> kim0, Cool.  What about Landscape Dedicated Server is that true as well?
[14:59] <atretes> smoser, sure let me try
[14:59] <kim0> RobertLaptop: nope, afaik landscape only offers a free trial
[14:59] <kim0> RobertLaptop: I'm sure price wise, it would be quite competitive however compared to other options
[15:00] <kim0> RobertLaptop: and you don't necessarily need it to manage UEC, although it does make things nicer
[15:03] <RobertLaptop> Is landscape a one time cost or a required subscription?  I am referring to the Dedicated Server not the hosted version.  Also does that mean all node servers have to be licensed as well?
[15:03] <smoser> atretes, but, in the end, i woudl recommend either uec-publish-tarball, or uec-publish-image (as kim0 suggested).  they're just much easier to work with IMO than euca-bundle-image, euca-upload-bundle, euca-register
[15:06] <atretes> smoser, yeah I will give that a bash too
[15:06] <kim0> RobertLaptop: I think you should contact Sales https://forms.canonical.com/sales/
[15:07] <RobertLaptop> kim0, I tried that a few months ago and never got a reply.  I guess I could retry.
[15:13] <atretes> smoser, Ok this sucks - I used the base 'untarnished' image that I downloaded and bundled is with the euca2ools, and ssh is working. So what could possibly have changed with my custom image?
[15:14] <smoser> i do suspect udev persistent network
[15:15] <smoser> but don't really understand how you would have gotten those there.
[15:15] <smoser> hold on
[15:16] <smoser> atretes, do you have /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules or /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules in the instance ?
[15:16] <smoser> err.. in your re-bundled image
[15:16] <atretes> smoser, well to get apt running in my mounted image I had to 'mount -bind /dev /tmp-mnt/dev'  and then chroot... that might've messed with things
[15:18] <smoser> do you have those files there ? (/etc/udev)
[15:19] <atretes> smoser, well in the instance that is currently running it is 70-persistent-net.rules
[15:19] <smoser> well, i suspect that that file has a mac addr in it that is different than your instance
[15:20] <smoser> ie, your instance probably has eth1 and is sitting waiting forever for eth0
[15:20] <atretes> smoser, and the same in the re-bundled image
[15:21] <atretes> smoser, hmmm yeah that would be a problem - so should I just remove is completely?
[15:21] <smoser> atretes, yes, remove that.
[15:22] <smoser> in your image, remove it, then re-register an ami, and try again
[15:22] <smoser> i relaly dont know what would have gotten that file there... i guesss somehow udev got started in your chroot ... and wrote that.
[15:22] <smoser> i'd not seen that before though
[15:23] <atretes> smoser, ok so I assume eucalyptus creates a new rule file when the image get instantiated with the generated mac?
[15:24] <smoser> no
[15:24] <smoser> eucalyptus does not modify the image contents. (other than in the networking setups that do not have a metadata service, and then, they only insert .ssh/authorized_keys)
[15:25] <atretes> ok
[15:25] <smoser> fwiw, i find it a serious bug for them to tinker inside the image contents.
[15:25] <smoser> (i would be pretty ticked off if my thinkpad bios decided it should read the filesystem and modify some things on my behalf)
[15:25] <atretes> I think so too
[15:26] <atretes> but what confuses me is that if a ssh into the instance that is currently running it does contain a 70-persistent-net.rules file...
[15:46] <atretes> smoser, you are a legend - my image is working! thanks so much :)
[15:47] <smoser> atretes, it *should* have that file
[15:47] <smoser> the instance should, but the image should not.
[15:47] <atretes> smoser, ah I understand
[15:48] <smoser> bug 341006 has more info
[16:18] <kim0> erichammond: Pushed the cast, thanks for the help http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntucloud#p/a/u/0/SPVqJWWiLVI
[17:16] <atretes> kim0, Very nice cast, does this work with eucalyptus?
[17:17] <kim0> atretes: um probably erichammond might know better
[17:17] <kim0> I guess it depends on the api compatibility level .. but generally should work I'd think
[17:21] <atretes> nice, I will check it out a bit further
[18:01] <erichammond> kim0, atretes: I've never used Eucalyptus/UEC and have no plans to as I'm happy to get out of the hardware maintenance business and let Amazon take care of it for me.
[18:04] <Abd4llA> ping kim0
[18:04] <kim0> Abd4llA: hey
[18:04] <kim0> How's it going
[18:05] <Abd4llA> fine, I've started implementing the EC2 AMI migration tool, saw u were looking for volunteers on ur blog
[18:05] <kim0> woohoo
[18:05] <Abd4llA> was just gonna send a mail to mailing list
[18:05] <kim0> that sounds awesome
[18:05] <kim0> where can we check out the code
[18:06] <Abd4llA> https://code.launchpad.net/~abd4lla/+junk/ec2-ebs-migrate
[18:06] <Abd4llA> nothing fancy yet
[18:06]  * kim0 clicking
[18:06] <Abd4llA> was thinking to take some opinions and ask for help, the tool is not big though, but opinions at this point would be valuable
[18:07] <kim0> Abd4llA: Is this your first contribution to ubuntu
[18:08] <Abd4llA> first code contribution idd, I delivered a session previously in AppDev week
[18:09]  * kim0 hugs Abd4llA
[18:09] <Abd4llA> hehe
[18:09] <Abd4llA> so what do u think the plan should be?
[18:10] <kim0> Abd4llA: Ok, first of all ... Indeed I think you should send an email to the ubuntu-cloud list
[18:10] <kim0> so that others wanting to work on this tool can join forces
[18:10] <kim0> actually I'll probably try to hack on it a bit too
[18:10] <kim0> Other than that .. do you feel like you have concrete questions or parts you'd like help with ?
[18:12] <Abd4llA> not really, but would be gr8 if someone from the servers guys did a quick review or something, as I said, opinions at this early stage are valuable
[18:12] <Abd4llA> specially regarding the general implementation approach
[18:12] <kim0> aha
[18:12] <kim0> smoser is generally the man who'd know best about that tool ..
[18:14] <kim0> smoser would you be able to quickly check out the implementation approach
[18:14] <kim0> Abd4llA: well don't expect something realtime :) but it'll come
[18:15] <kim0> hang in here for a while if that's ok
[18:15] <Abd4llA> sure
[18:17] <smoser> Abd4llA, so, reading a bit, overall looks reaonsble. i like that you laid things out and documented what you're expecting to do
[18:18] <smoser> def prepareDestinationVol(dstInstance, volumeSize):
[18:19] <smoser> really, the ideal migrate of the instance involes copying the filesystem type and LABEL also.
[18:19] <kim0> I notice a couple of issues .. Do we always assume ext3 ? Do we always assume the ebs vol is not partitioned ?
[18:19] <smoser> and i would even suggest UUID.
[18:19] <kim0> are those reasonable assumptions ?
[18:19] <smoser> ebs root volumes are not partitioned.  amazon/xen does tricks such that the root volume comes up when booted named /dev/sda1
[18:20] <smoser> (xen is really wierd...actually, the device you're used to seeing as /dev/xvda1 or /dev/sda1 is not a partition, it is a funny named block device -- look in /sys and you'll see what i mean)
[18:20] <smoser> but, no, you can't assume ext3
[18:21] <Abd4llA> smoser: yeah , would do that idd,
[18:21] <Abd4llA> kim0: I was thinking about detecting the fs, so far the only idea I've is using the "file" command
[18:21] <smoser> we're cheating in some way by not copying the full volume. we're only copying the filesystem contents, which is good, but if you lose attributes of that filesystem, its bad.
[18:21] <smoser> :)
[18:22] <kim0> what about blkid
[18:22] <kim0> I hate running commands like so .. I wish Linux servers had a low level api :)
[18:23] <smoser> i recently did this for euca-bundle-vol and ec2-bundle-vol
[18:23] <smoser> and use blkid to get UUID and LABEL and TYPE
[18:24] <Abd4llA> ok, good enough for me
[18:25] <Abd4llA> smoser: are the kernel_ids avaible across regions ?
[18:25] <smoser> you can see mkfs at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/ubuntu/natty/euca2ools/natty/view/head:/euca2ools/euca2ools/__init__.py if you're interested.
[18:25] <smoser> oh, good question.
[18:25] <kim0> consistent you mean ?
[18:25] <smoser> no.
[18:25] <Abd4llA> kim0: yes :)
[18:26] <smoser> for migrating, what you'll have to do is fish through available kernels/ramdisks in the target region and try to match
[18:26] <smoser> fun, eh?
[18:26] <Abd4llA> :S
[18:26] <kim0> smoser: try to match based on ?
[18:26] <smoser> based on manifest path
[18:26] <Abd4llA> I C
[18:27] <smoser> what i would suggest is first looking and seeing if there is a single match by owner-id and manifest-basename in the target region
[18:27] <smoser> if so, use it.
[18:27] <smoser> if there are no candidates matching basename, give up, require user to tell you
[18:27] <smoser> if there are more than 1 (and there will be for anything we've published), then you really get to fixh
[18:27] <smoser> fish
[18:28] <smoser> we use a naming convention, we have different buckets, and you have to be careful to stay in the same "bucket basename".
[18:28] <smoser> our buckets are named
[18:28] <smoser> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEC/Images/NamingConvention
[18:29] <smoser> ubuntu-kernels-us -> ubuntu-kernels-eu-west-1 -> ubuntu-kernels-ap-southeast-1
[18:29] <smoser> but we also have
[18:29] <smoser> ubuntu-kernels-testing-us -> ubuntu-kernels-testing-ap-souteast-1 ...
[18:30] <kim0> can't we just download the kernel and re-register it on the other side
[18:31] <kim0> smoser: also with newish pvgrub images .. we don't need to do anything right?
[18:32] <smoser> well, you still have to basename match
[18:32] <smoser> you cannot download kernels, and only priviledged accounts can register on the other side
[18:33] <kim0> Abd4llA: how are you planning on establshing ssh keys across the 2 instances ?
[18:33] <kim0> for rsync'ing
[18:35] <Abd4llA> kim0: I plan to generate a key pair on a machine and then copy the key to other one
[18:37] <kim0> so you'd download it locally .. and upload to the other side
[18:37] <kim0> I guess we'd have to do it that way
[18:38] <Abd4llA> I'd just remotely cat it from one machine, and remotely write it to the file on the other one
[18:38] <Abd4llA> if u consider that *downloading*
[18:39] <kim0> Abd4llA: catloading is better :)
[18:40] <Abd4llA> smoser: any suggestion regarding that point ?
[18:40] <smoser> i didn't follow it
[18:40] <kim0> copying ssh keys between the 2 sides
[18:41] <smoser> oh. i see. yeah, i think his solution is good.
[18:41] <smoser> you could use cloud-config to add the ssh key to the instances
[18:42] <kim0> smoser: inst1 needs to ssh into inst2 .. neither have private keys .. so we'd need to generate them I guess
[18:42] <smoser> create one locally, then, launch both instances such that they have that key (then you can even *use* that key to get to them)
[18:42] <smoser> then you wouldn't have to muck around with '--key' in the launching of the instance
[18:42] <smoser> that make sense ?
[18:43] <kim0> not to me .. I still think we *have* to generate
[18:43] <kim0> cloud-init puts public keys right ?
[18:43] <Abd4llA> I'm not full aware of cloud-init
[18:43]  * Abd4llA googles
[18:43] <kim0> instance won't have a private key .. How can ubuntu@i1 ssh to ubuntu@i2 then ?
[18:44] <smoser> right, kim0
[18:44] <smoser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/doc/examples/cloud-config.txt
[18:44] <smoser> Abd4llA, thats what you're looking for.
[18:44] <smoser>  * generate a new ssh private/public key
[18:45] <smoser>  * launch both instances with 'ssh_authorized_keys'
[18:45] <kim0> aha
[18:46] <smoser>  * connect to source instance, put private key in place (you can't do this from cloud-init, but you could do it with a runcmd or user-script)
[18:46] <erichammond> Info on uploading an ssh key to ec2: http://alestic.com/2010/10/ec2-ssh-keys
[18:46] <smoser> at that point, src can talk to dest
[18:46] <erichammond> though smoser's approach sounds simpler for this use.
[18:46] <smoser> erichammond, yeah, that works.
[18:46] <Abd4llA> but that'd add a dependency on cloud-init
[18:46] <erichammond> no need to involve EC2 account
[18:46] <smoser> i dont know if my use case is simpler or not.
[18:47] <smoser> Abd4llA, its a dependency on the utility instances.
[18:47] <smoser> the end user doesn't give 2 hoots which instances you use to do this for them
[18:48] <kim0> erichammond: that uploads pub keys only right? no way to send over priv keys ?
[18:48] <smoser> i would suggest not requiring utility instance-ids to be input, but using either hard coded values, or values from http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/query (for known regions)
[18:48] <erichammond> kim0: Correct.  You are not giving EC2 access to your private keys, just the public side.
[18:48] <smoser> kim0, correct. you really don't ever want to give someone your private keys !
[18:48] <smoser> that was one of the benefits of the "upload keypair" functionality
[18:48]  * kim0 scratches head
[18:49] <kim0> if I'm only uploading pub keys to the 2 instances .. how can I expect them to ssh into one another
[18:49] <smoser> so, for erichammond's solutionj with upload-keypair to work, you'd still have to deal with getting the private key to source instance.
[18:49] <smoser> you have to do that.
[18:49] <smoser> period
[18:49] <Abd4llA> hmm, maybe I'm not getting the full requirements, so this utility would be used by end users, but they'd use predefined ids provided by ubuntu
[18:49] <smoser> why not?
[18:50] <kim0> the utility instance could be ubuntu .. but the tool could be copying centos or windows
[18:50] <erichammond> What "ids"?
[18:50] <kim0> erichammond: the utility ami
[18:50] <smoser> they have to 2 utility instances to write to EBS volumes.
[18:50] <smoser> have to run 2 utility instances
[18:50] <erichammond> ah, sure.  AMIs don't matter.
[18:50] <kim0> Windows .. I guess we can't really copy that yet :)
[18:50] <smoser> you can't possibly expect that you can work with *any* 2 utility instance image ids
[18:50] <smoser> right ?
[18:50] <smoser> ie, it can't be windows, it has to have ssh...
[18:51] <kim0> I mean the vol to be copied .. cant even be windows
[18:51] <erichammond> er, don't matter to the user.
[18:51] <smoser> right.
[18:51] <Abd4llA> yeah, I thought we'd just document the utility instance requirements
[18:51] <kim0> so it's Ubuntu instance copying any Linux
[18:51] <Abd4llA> but ok, that works even better for me :)
[18:54] <Abd4llA> smoser: one final Q, ubuntu instances have their apt repos configured per region, some blog post did a manual cleanup to the sources list of the AMI after migration
[18:54] <kim0> I wonder if there's some higher level tool than tar .. to copy (potential partitions, fs, label, uuid, data, acl, xattr...)
[18:54] <Abd4llA> *ubuntu AMIs
[18:55] <smoser> Abd4llA, you should not need to do that.
[18:55] <Abd4llA> I was considering offering the option to mount provide the end user with access to the AMI mounted under some directory and prompt him to do any manual cleanup
[18:55] <smoser> /etc/apt/sources.list is written on instance-first-boot with appropriate data.
[18:56] <kim0> nice
[18:56] <Abd4llA> :)
[18:56] <Abd4llA> nice
[18:56] <smoser> Abd4llA, you could allow for something like tha tthough.
[18:56] <smoser> it is possible that there are other things that someone would want to do.
[18:57] <smoser> i'd suggest allowing the end user to input scripts to run, and execute those scripts on the utliity instance, passing them the path to the mount point, and possibly information like "region" or something.
[18:57] <smoser> but thats getting fancy
[18:58] <Abd4llA> hehe :) , but yeah that's possible, maybe running the scripts in a chroot ?
[19:00] <kim0> smoser: do you think using some higher level tools (partimage ..etc) might make sense ?
[19:00] <kim0> we're still loosing acls, xattrs, selinux contexts ..etc right?
[19:00] <kim0> with tar that is
[19:01] <smoser> oh, i didn't see there was using tar
[19:01] <smoser> dont use tar
[19:01] <smoser> :)
[19:01] <kim0> hehe
[19:01] <kim0> actually I think it was rsync
[19:01] <kim0> I still wonder if it can copy those
[19:02] <smoser> rsync -aXHAS
[19:03]  * kim0 nods
[19:03] <smoser> you could optionally allow the user to specify volume-copy, which you'd just use 'dd'.
[19:03] <kim0> at which stage you would have done a full enterprise datacenter cloning utility :)
[19:04] <Abd4llA> dd over nc ?
[19:04] <kim0> I guess we'd wanna compress the ssh connection as well
[19:04] <kim0> ssh I'd think
[19:04] <Abd4llA> interesting :)
[19:04] <kim0> cool
[19:04] <kim0> Abd4llA: great work man .. rock on
[19:05] <Abd4llA> thnx kim0 smoser
[19:05] <kim0> Abd4llA: ping me if you need any help .. if I don't know, I'll at least point you
[19:06] <Abd4llA> sure thing
[19:06] <smoser> Abd4llA, no problem. feel free to ping.
[19:07] <smoser> you would probably do better to just to rsync -z, than to compress the ssh session.
[19:07] <smoser> hm..
[19:07] <smoser> i think it would work:
[19:07] <smoser> rsync -some-options-here -S /dev/sdg other-host:/dev/sdg
[19:08] <smoser> woudl be better than dd as it woudln't send zeros, or write zeros
[19:08]  * Abd4llA councling his big rsync man
[19:09] <smoser> the -some-option- was because in that case you dont want it to copy the node, but the contents of the device. so -a isn't right idont think
[19:11] <kim0> that block mode is probably simpler to implement
[19:11] <smoser> yeah, i think you'd get it with no arguments.
[19:12] <kim0> smoser: thanks for all the help
[20:26] <jwstasiak> hey all - new to the cloud-init/config world. I'm running on an ec2 instance of maverick (ami: ami-cef405a7) and having a few problems: 1. I can't get ouput to send output to a file. 2. I haven't been able to turn off interactivity - installing sun-java6-bin looks like it's clobbering my apt packages. Any ideas?
[22:03] <kim0> jwstasiak: for silent java install .. you need something like http://mmcgrana.github.com/2010/07/install-java-ubuntu.html
[22:04] <kim0> jwstasiak: for redirecting logs to a file check user_setup in http://smoser.brickies.net/ubuntu/uec-seed/user-data
[22:04] <kim0> for a sample
[22:11] <jwstasiak> kim0: thanks - I had something similar in a user-data script I've been working on  - I was hoping there'd be a way to do it via cloud-config, but didn't see anyway of doing it after looking through the source (.5.15 ubuntu3)
[22:12] <jwstasiak> kim0: after poking around everything today, I think the user-data scrpt is prolly the way to go for now