[06:06] <nlsthzn> night all
[06:30] <Kilos> morning superfly and other early birds
[06:30] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[06:30]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[06:31] <Kilos> Maaz, and rusks
[06:31] <Maaz> Sorry Kilos the Crash Kid ate them all
[06:31] <kbmonkey> morning Kilos :)
[06:32] <kbmonkey> no more rusks?! :(
[06:32] <Kilos> hiya kbmonkey  :)
[06:32] <Kilos> yeah
[06:32] <Kilos> Maaz, rusks please
[06:32] <Maaz> There is a packet of Ouma's  on the top shelf
[06:32] <Kilos> hide them from the crash kid
[06:34] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[06:35] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[06:35] <Maaz> You're Welcome I'm sure
[06:40] <kbmonkey> next time we'll get 'em before crash kid he he ;)
[06:40] <kbmonkey> bbl
[06:40] <Kilos> lol
[07:18] <hihanhoesj> mornig
[07:19] <hihanhoesj> s/nig/ning/
[07:26] <sakhi> moonin
[07:26] <superfly> morning oom Kilos
[07:27] <sakhi> morning superfly Kilos how goes?
[07:27] <Kilos> well ty sakhi and you
[07:28] <plustwo> good morning
[07:28] <sakhi> I'm good thanks.
[07:28] <sakhi> hi plustwo
[07:28] <plustwo> sakhi: hi
[07:29] <superfly> sakhi: ok thanks, on the mend
[07:29] <plustwo> hi superfly
[07:30] <superfly> hi plustwo
[07:30] <Kilos> how is superfly today?
[07:31] <plustwo> hi Kilos
[07:31] <Kilos> hi plustwo
[07:31] <superfly> Kilos: getting there
[07:32] <Kilos> good
[07:37] <inetpro> good evening
[07:39] <plustwo> hi inetpro
[07:44] <panfriedsidh> morning all
[07:45] <hihanhoesj> Hi
[07:46] <plustwo> panfriedsidh: hi
[07:49] <Kilos> hiya inetpro hows ya today
[07:49] <Kilos> morning hihanhoesj
[07:49] <inetpro> Kilos: good and yourself?
[07:49] <Kilos> good ty
[07:49] <Kilos> cold
[07:50] <Kilos> hi panfriedsidh
[07:52] <panfriedsidh> hi guys. the plan today is to call in sick and get lots done from home :)
[07:56] <panfriedsidh> shouldnt have to..
[07:59] <hihanhoesj> Hi Kilos, got your evo problem fixed?
[08:00] <Kilos> i did a restore and lost those few in evo but they still at gmail ty hihanhoesj
[08:01] <Kilos> dunno where that bug came from. been perfect since i started ubuntu
[08:02] <hihanhoesj> personally I never was a huge van of Evo, much too buggy imo.
[08:02] <Kilos> genuine?
[08:03] <hihanhoesj> yeh.
[08:03] <Kilos> this was my first probs with it
[08:03] <Kilos> only in the last 2 weeks
[08:03] <hihanhoesj> last prob I had was with trying to imap 1GB+ to my machine.
[08:04] <Kilos> lol
[08:04] <hihanhoesj> it took it more than a day(!?)
[08:04] <Kilos> thats kinda large
[08:04] <hihanhoesj> or it would have if I hadnt stopped it :)
[08:04] <Kilos> i use pop
[08:05] <Kilos> such large mails would kill me
[08:05] <hihanhoesj> I tried using it again at this job, but now it totally refuses to connect to the imap server...
[08:05] <hihanhoesj> ya, I never delete an email :)
[08:06] <hihanhoesj> pst, I even keep the spam
[08:06] <Kilos> lol
[08:07] <Kilos> i delete all the spam. some fools think i am old and try sell me viagra all the time
[08:07] <hihanhoesj> hehe, might come in handy someday though *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*
[08:07] <Kilos> hehe
[08:08] <Kilos> dunno where they got my addy from but its like 5 mails a week the swines
[08:08] <hihanhoesj> :O
[08:09] <hihanhoesj> you are lucky... I get about 5 a hour... well my spamfilter gets them, I dont :)
[08:09] <Kilos> could be google because all my google stuff is linked i think
[08:09] <Kilos> wow
[08:10] <hihanhoesj> no they do a dictionary attack
[08:10] <Kilos> i dont know how to use those filters
[08:10] <Kilos> too much for the head
[08:10] <hihanhoesj> so they actually take a educated guess
[08:10] <Kilos> dictionary attack
[08:10] <Kilos> ?
[08:10] <hihanhoesj> s/a/an/
[08:11] <hihanhoesj> take a dictionary, run through it on a word-for-word basis and prepend that to a domain
[08:11] <Kilos> eish
[08:12] <Kilos> you dont think its through the google links to blog and site
[08:12] <hihanhoesj> and then they make a note of which addresses does not report a non-exestant error.
[08:12] <hihanhoesj> that helps to
[08:13] <Kilos> oh well thats the cyber world we live in
[08:13] <hihanhoesj> zigzagitly
[08:13] <Kilos> lol
[08:13] <hihanhoesj> and the spammers are like the telemarketers of the cyber world :)
[08:14] <hihanhoesj> just ALOT easier to ignore
[08:14] <hihanhoesj> but more difficult to annoy them ;)
[08:20] <Kilos> actually there is an antispam tool in ubuntu
[08:21] <Kilos> i saw it just running through synaptic a while back
[08:21] <Kilos> for admin guys i was told
[08:22] <Kilos> looks like it actually attacks spam sites
[08:22] <Kilos> but someone will sue you i think
[08:27] <hihanhoesj> are you maybe talking about spamassasin?
[08:49] <Kilos> no hihanhoesj  it had a funny name
[08:49] <Kilos> some bunny or something
[08:50] <hihanhoesj> lol ok
[08:50] <hihanhoesj> I will have a look.
[08:50] <Kilos> maybe superfly remembers
[08:52] <Kilos> hehe sugarplum
[08:53] <Kilos> i laughed at the time cause thats what i call my love
[08:54] <Kilos> hihanhoesj, ^^
[08:54] <hihanhoesj> lol I will take a look :0
[08:55] <hihanhoesj> ho ho ho
[08:55] <hihanhoesj> thats a nice app you uncovered there :)
[08:56] <Kilos> lol looks like a little meanie hey?
[08:57] <hihanhoesj> basically what it does is to give the spammer that is crawling your website, exactly what he wants. Email adresses
[08:58] <Kilos> there is so much in synaptic that one will never use , but interesting to look at
[08:58] <hihanhoesj> but those email addresses does not exist, so the spammer must then delete his whole email database, and start from scratch :)
[08:58] <Kilos> yes but read more
[08:58] <Kilos> killer thingie
[08:58] <Kilos> very clever tool
[08:59] <hihanhoesj> hmm send one spammer another spammers address... now thats what I can usefull spam fighting, lol
[08:59] <Kilos> lol
[09:57] <DraZoro> Greetings everyone
[09:58] <plustwo> hi DraZoro
[09:59] <Kilos> hi DraZoro
[10:02] <DraZoro> Hi Kilos, plustwo
[10:10] <Kilos> morning maiatoday
[10:10] <DraZoro> Good Morning maiatoday
[10:13] <maiatoday> hey Kilos DraZoro
[10:17] <DraZoro> Out for now ....later guys
[10:43] <Kilos> hi corrie206  hows things
[10:43] <Kilos> long time no see
[13:08] <hihanhoesj> Aparently not speaking to you, eh Kilo?
[13:50] <Kilos> huh
[13:50] <Kilos> oh corrie206 yeah the overgrown hooligan
[13:50] <Kilos> he has been ignoring us
[14:46] <nlsthzn> k, cheers for now
[15:59] <hihanhoesj> It would almost look like I fall under that same catagory :)
[16:10] <Kilos> lol
[16:10] <Kilos> overgrown or hooligan
[16:10] <Kilos> or ignoring us
[16:11] <hihanhoesj> ignoring
[16:11] <Kilos> na. you done well today
[16:12] <Kilos> how did you work your nick out
[16:13] <hihanhoesj> its a ambigiouation (hope I spelled that correctly) of a nickname I used to be called by friends of the family
[16:14] <Kilos> whew. i looked for a short one. typing is hard work
[16:14] <hihanhoesj> hmm
[16:15] <afrodeity> long live classic gnome
[16:15] <hihanhoesj> if you say so, for me, I like typing
[16:16] <hihanhoesj> Classic gnome has reached EOL, long live classic gnome
[16:16] <hihanhoesj> something to that effect?
[16:16] <Kilos> i use 2 fingwers and gotta look for each character
[16:16] <Kilos> fingers too
[16:17] <hihanhoesj> I would much rather type, than write :)
[16:17] <Kilos> yeah
[16:17] <Kilos> i  learned to type 2 fingers most likely for you were born
[16:18] <hihanhoesj> probably, I wont doubt it :)
[16:18] <hihanhoesj> I realy learned to type when I started programming :)
[16:18] <hihanhoesj> and I am still glad I did
[16:19] <hihanhoesj> but I still need to9 teach myself to touch type, never could get the hang of it :(
[16:19] <Kilos> i have tried a couple of the typing programs but hands dont fancy  wriggling around like that
[16:19] <hihanhoesj> lol
[16:20] <hihanhoesj> well anyway, I gotta start getting home now, talk later again
[16:20] <Kilos> to me it is fascinating to watch a good typist at work
[16:20] <Kilos> go safe
[16:20] <hihanhoesj> always
[16:21] <hihanhoesj> damn, forgot I still need to shut down my VM's
[16:22] <hihanhoesj> I use the same hard drive that I keep my Star Trek's on, to hold the drives for my VM's
[16:22] <hihanhoesj> there we go... I am off
[16:23] <Kilos> lol
[16:51] <hihanhoesj> And I am at home :)
[17:07] <Kilos> well done
[17:19] <kbmonkey> evening fine folks
[17:30] <magellanic> hey
[17:51]  * nlsthzn waves
[21:51] <cocooncrash> inetpro: pdftk
[21:52] <hihanhoesj> eh?
[21:54] <cocooncrash> Maaz: http://twitter.com/inetpro/statuses/68695392090460161
[21:54] <Maaz> cocooncrash: inetpro: "Merge,Split and Re-arrange PDF pages using PDF-Shuffler http://t.co/2WH0jz3 ♻ @hfordsa: Help! Need quick way of merging 3 pdf docs. Anyone?"
[21:55] <inetpro> cocooncrash: pong
[22:08] <kbmonkey> does someone in Durbs have a CentOS 5.6 DVD I could copy?
[22:09] <superfly> kbmonkey: ask William Walter Konghorn
[22:11] <kbmonkey> ten-4 superfly
[22:12] <kbmonkey> Just discovered the live CD does not support HDD install
[22:27] <Symmetria> sup :p
[22:34] <hihanhoesj> yello
[22:34]  * nlsthzn-work waves
[22:43] <Symmetria> heh
[22:43] <Symmetria> if you're interested
[22:43] <Symmetria> http://networking.tenet.ac.za/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=l2_l3_resiliance
[22:43] <Symmetria> LOL network hax!
[22:48] <Kerbero> Symmetria: do you know if it is possible to run a local dropbox cache
[22:48] <Kerbero> or something dropbox-like on tenet?
[22:48] <Symmetria> heh, seriously doubtful without some very very strong academic motivation :)
[22:49] <Symmetria> because the first thing I'd get asked if I even proposed that internally is "Whats going to stop that becoming the central way for students to move pirated crap around"
[22:49] <Symmetria> :)
[22:49] <Kerbero> true
[22:49] <Kerbero> but with a 2GB data limit...
[22:49] <Kerbero> still possible
[22:50] <Kerbero> but nasty
[22:50] <Kerbero> and then one can just as well use email
[22:51] <Symmetria> heh, like I said, if I could get a good enough motivation for it, possibly, but it would need to be very very heavily motivated


[00:05] <xubuntu655> greeting!  trying to determine which version to download for a netbook.... any help would be appreciated  asus 1015px
[00:07] <Noskcaj> xubuntu655, xubuntu 12.10 amd64 is my recommendation, you could use netboot to install it if it has not much ram
[00:12] <Noskcaj> xubuntu655, it will work fine, just google what to do to help the ssd in ubuntu
[00:12] <xubuntu655> excellent!  thanks for the support.. off to install new SSD and boot 12.10 from SD or USB and see how it goes....
[01:07] <guest-8kYw9S> I entered a command in terminal, startx-- -nolisten tcp and now when I try to login, I see a black screen saying something about the X window system and then get logged out
[01:07] <guest-8kYw9S> I never actually login, I just see the screen, then get back to the login screen. how can I fix this?
[01:09] <CrazyZurfer> I've got a problem, when the screensaver starts when I'm in full screen mode (for example watching a movie), then when I move the mouse, the computer freezes with the whole screen in grey
[01:09] <CrazyZurfer> every time it happens I've to restart the pc
[04:21] <donnie> Does anyone here know how to step by step set up the google android sdk? All I need are the google android drivers
[04:24] <holstein> donnie: i would eleborate on "all i need" but i would just follow a guide
[04:25] <donnie> Holstein. Tried the guides. The only thing I need from the sdk is the google drivers for usb. I do not need to write or code android programs
[04:25] <holstein> donnie: i just plug my phone in, and it works
[04:26] <donnie> holstein. Mines not that nice to play.. I have the ZTE Avail.. It doesn't come with usb support
[04:30] <holstein> donnie: what are you trying to do? it should show as a USB devic
[04:30] <holstein> e
[04:31] <donnie> holstein. It should do a lot of things but this phone does not. I have it connected right now. I have usb debugging turned on. Nothing shows up
[04:32] <holstein> donnie: it should show up as a hard drive or something.. look in the options
[04:33] <donnie> holstein. It does not show up as anything. It does nothing. Therefore I think I need to install the google android usb drivers
[04:33] <holstein> donnie: you shouldnt have to.. what about in lsusb ?
[04:33] <donnie> holstein. No idea. How would I check
[04:34] <holstein> donnie: i would open a terminal and type 'lsusb'.... feel free to pastebin that
[04:34] <donnie> I just found out howto root it. with the keypad...
[04:36] <holstein> donnie: i would try the android support channels for info on rooting your phone
[04:36] <donnie> holstein. I just rooted it I found out how. Now I have to find out if I can install aps from download to sd card since I'm between carriers
[04:38] <holstein> donnie: i would just pop into a proper support channel.. otherwise we could talk about it in the OT channel
[04:38] <donnie> holstein. I'm gonna. Thank you though for trying to help
[05:07] <ball> I seem to have lots of [694827.656051] usb 1-5: reset high-speed USB device number 5 using ehci_hcd in the output of dmesg.
[05:08] <ball> It's a PATA drive in a USB enclosure. Does it just mean the drive has failed?
[05:09] <ball> hello Os_Maleus
[05:09] <ball> Happy New Year.
[05:09] <Os_Maleus> Happy New Year!
[05:18] <ball> brb
[07:26] <computer> how do i make vlc my default player?
[07:27] <Noskcaj> delete the others is my method
[07:30] <computer> ok
[07:30] <computer> thnx
[07:38] <koegs> that, my friend, ist not the standard way :D
[07:38] <Noskcaj> koegs, yeah, but it works
[07:49] <_______> lol
[10:09] <computer> how do i delete the wine shortcut in >applications>wine
[10:09] <computer> ?
[10:13] <leexu> hello world?
[10:13] <leexu> or not
[10:14] <leexu> anyone awake?
[10:15] <leexu> okay guess i will see if installation is far enough along so i can download chromium
[10:17] <koegs> leexu: what is your question?
[10:19] <leexu> huh question well i am installing xubuntu 12.10 i think and am trying to download the latest flashplayer which I assume is in chromium?
[10:23] <koegs> leexu: if you want to have built-in flash, you have to use "google chrome", not "chromium-browser"
[10:23] <leexu> ah thank you good to know
[10:24] <koegs> or you just install "flashplugin-installer"
[10:24] <leexu> i don't think i am up to installs yet
[10:25] <leexu> i have installed chrome before 'by the menu' but that's about it
[10:27] <leexu> i'm sort of a old hater of microsoft ;-)
[10:27] <TheSheep> chrome has flash built in, chromium doesn't
[10:28] <koegs> that's what i said :)
[10:28] <leexu> excellent information i will install as soon as xubuntu installs
[10:29] <leexu> completely
[10:32] <computer> how do i delete the wine shortcut in >applications>wine
[10:34] <TheSheep> computer: it's in .local/share/applications/wine
[10:43] <computer> i will just install wine again then delete shortcut then remove wine
[10:43] <computer> becaused its not listed in that location
[13:30] <xubuntu117> como funciona isso aqui
[13:30] <xubuntu117> ?
[13:31] <xubuntu117> preciso de ajuda aqui
[13:31] <Pici> !br
[13:39] <xubuntu853> How do I zip a file in xubuntu?
[13:40] <xubuntu853> Hello?!!
[13:41] <koegs> xubuntu853: right-click > add to archive
[13:42] <xubuntu853> I don't see add to archive
[13:43] <xubuntu853> If I don't see add to achive what is the problem?
[13:46] <xubuntu853> I don't see add to achieve when i right click
[13:47] <xubuntu853> how ca i fix that?
[15:40] <antithesis> Hello
[15:40] <antithesis> Can anyone name examples of how Xubuntu is more user-friendly than Debian with Xfce?
[15:42] <bazhang> antithesis, what do you mean.
[15:44] <antithesis> Well, what are the differences between the two in general?
[15:44] <antithesis> Isn't a major feature of Ubuntu that it's out-of-the-box?
[15:45] <bazhang> not really
[15:45] <TheSheep> antithesis: the only difference is in what applications are installed by default and what desktop environment is used
[15:45] <bazhang> debian and ubuntu both have ways of adding propietary codecs to play mp3, movies, etc
[15:46] <TheSheep> antithesis: xubuntu uses xfce4, which seem to be well liked by people who are accustomed to "traditional" interfaces
[15:46] <antithesis> Are there no differences in supported hardware, for example?
[15:46] <TheSheep> antithesis: no, under the hood they are exactly the same
[15:47] <TheSheep> antithesis: it's the same base system with a different set of default apps
[15:48] <antithesis> So if Ubuntu can run Steam, so can Debian?
[15:48] <Pici> Between (X)Ubuntu and Debian there are different kernel patches though.
[15:48] <bazhang> ask in #debian about running steam
[15:49] <antithesis> It was just an example
[15:50] <antithesis> If they're really the same under the hood, what do these mean?: http://i.imgur.com/zXARw.png
[15:52] <Pici> What is that?
[15:53] <antithesis> A dialog you see when you try to download Ubuntu
[15:53] <antithesis> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/questions?distro=desktop&bits=32&release=latest
[15:54] <Pici> Like I said, we may provide kernel patches that Debian does not.. or work to write kernel patches.
[15:54] <Pici> I think TheSheep was speaking about the difference between Ubuntu and Xubuntu
[15:55] <antithesis> Well, could you give an example of those kernel patches? What does the end user notice?
[15:55] <TheSheep> Pici: ah, right, I missed the beginning and just assumed it was that
[15:55] <TheSheep> antithesis: sorry
[15:55] <antithesis> Does it make a big difference
[15:55] <antithesis> TheSheep np
[15:56] <TheSheep> still, all the patches that Ubuntu has are free for taking, just Debian doesn't incorporate some of them because of ideological reasons
[15:56] <antithesis> Because of reasons?
[15:57] <TheSheep> antithesis: Debian has a very strict set of rules about what gets included
[15:57] <antithesis> Lol I'm kidding
[15:57] <antithesis> What I meant was that that's a pleonasm
[15:57] <TheSheep> antithesis: for example, they didn't want Firefox because its logo is a registered trademark
[15:58] <TheSheep> antithesis: you have to excuse me, English is not my native language and I don't know how to better say that the resons are ideological
[15:58] <TheSheep> reasons*
[15:59] <antithesis> ofc
[15:59] <antithesis> But nobody has an example of a patch Ubuntu has that Debian doesn't?
[17:24] <KeyboardNotFound> hello all, who is best software for unzip .zip files ?
[18:03] <zodiak> I wonder if there will be an xubuntu powered phone now ;)
[18:06] <GridCube> sure, why not
[18:06] <GridCube> P:
[21:15] <Peyam> Im trying to use the calender
[21:15] <Peyam> the one named Orange
[21:16] <Peyam> I tried to import a file to it .ICS
[21:16] <Peyam> still doesnt work
[21:16] <Peyam> it is freazing
[21:16] <Peyam> is it normal?
[21:18] <TheSheep> obviously not
[21:18] <TheSheep> you might have found a bug
[21:18] <TheSheep> congratulations!
[21:18] <Peyam> but it doesn't do anything
[21:18] <Peyam> maybe becouse my file is too big
[21:18] <TheSheep> !bugs
[21:19] <TheSheep> (btw, the name of the calendar app is "orage", without the "n")
[21:19] <Peyam> does it work fine for u?
[21:19] <Peyam> now it work
[21:19] <Peyam> s
[21:19] <TheSheep> I can't tell, because I uninstalled it.
[21:19] <Peyam> what do you have
[21:20] <TheSheep> just google calendar through the browser
[21:20] <Peyam> I use the default one on gnome 3.4 before
[21:20] <Peyam> in fedora
[21:20] <Peyam> now I moved to sfce
[21:20] <Peyam> x
[21:20] <Peyam> I will make  keyboardshorcut to see the orage
[22:58] <Guest77791> On my xubuntu 12.10 desktop, I want to: 1. use smaller desktop ions, 2. change the menu structure. Can anyone show me where this is explained?
[23:02] <holstein> Guest77791:
[23:02] <holstein> http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/preferences
[23:03] <holstein> Guest77791: http://xubuntugeek.blogspot.com/2012/06/how-to-graphically-edit-xfcexubuntu.html
[23:07] <Guest77791> :) Thanks, holstein. Also, I have installed a Ruby Integrated Development Environment (IDE) and the Bluefish HTML editor. The latter appears in the 'Development' sub-menu, which was created when I installed Bluefish, but the former is not to be found there or anywhere else? Does anyone know why this might be?
[23:08] <holstein> Guest77791: i didnt think that was a GUI
[23:08] <holstein> Guest77791: i think that is command line
[23:09] <holstein> Guest77791: i could be wrong.. you'd need to elaborate as wo what ruby ide you speak of and where you got it
[23:11] <Guest77791> My "Ubuntu Software Centre" graphical interface, used instead of apt-get, ... on this occasion, calls it "Interpreter of object-oriented scripting language Ruby (default version)". I can't find a shorter name.
[23:12] <holstein> Guest77791: its not a GUI afaik
[23:14] <Guest77791> The rfuby ide is not a GUI so therefore does not appear on any menu?  So I need to open a terminal?
[23:14] <holstein> Guest77791: if you want to use the tooll you downloaded that doesnt have a GUI nor a menu entry, thats where i would start
[23:15] <holstein> you might want something like http://arcadia.rubyforge.org/ which im sure there is something in the repos...
[23:20] <Guest77791> :) I was at a dead-end only half an hour ago and now have a large number of promising paths to choose from. Thank you, again, holstein. (A good touch typing tutor may help here I have Klavaro).
[23:22] <holstein> Guest77791: enjoy!
[23:23] <Guest77791> I'll let u know how it goes.
[23:43] <Guest77791> The tabbed icon form at main_menu->settings_manager->desktop allowed me to reduce the desktop icon size from 32px to 24px. (I could have reduced it to 8px. Now I have to find how to also reduce the text font size -- right now not as easy to find as I had expected.)
[23:47] <Guest77791> There's a "Use custom size" field, only active if the check-box in front of  it is checked. I reduced the font to 6px :)
[23:51] <Guest77791> On another topic, can anyone show me how to 1. create a desktop background with a paint program like gimp? Install it?  What I want is a desktop that has multiple faint images of a QWERTY keyboard.
[23:53] <Guest77791> ... I meant: show me where to find the information. I can start search in through the gimp online manual myself, unless anyone can point directly to what I want.


[09:41] <odyssey4me> cjwatson I've been referred to you by jamespage for this and hope you can help. We're still seeing 'Hash Sum mismatch' errors for apt update executions. According to http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cjwatson/blog/no-more-hash-sum-mismatch-errors.html this should be a thing of the past from Xenial onwards, but we're still seeing it. I'm trying to figure out how to verify whether this is actually being used or not.
[09:43] <odyssey4me> If I do 'apt-get -oDebug::Acquire::http=true update' then it shows the InRelease download happening from the standard ubuntu sources, but out failures are from those sources - for example: E: Failed to fetch http://mirror.rackspace.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial-updates/universe/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  Hash Sum mismatch
[09:44] <jamespage> odyssey4me: I wonder whether you have to use a specific mirror configuration to pickup the extra bits
[09:45] <Faux> Yeah, I don't think you should be hitting packages.gz if you are by-hash.
[09:45] <odyssey4me> that's what's confusing me - unfortunately docs on all this are very sparese
[09:45] <odyssey4me> *sparse
[09:46] <odyssey4me> according to http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cjwatson/blog/no-more-hash-sum-mismatch-errors.html I should see the InRelease file fetched, then the by-hash ... and I'm not seeing that
[09:46] <odyssey4me> so I'm wondering if there's some sort of apt or whatever config that needs to be in place to activate this, or if using it can be forced somehow
[09:48] <Faux> By-Hash Try to download indexes via an URI constructed from a hashsum of the expected file rather than downloaded via a well-known stable filename. True by default, but automatically disabled if the source indicates no support for it. Usage can be forced with the special value "for
[09:48] <Faux> man 5 apt.conf
[09:48] <Faux> man:apt.conf(5)
[09:49] <cjwatson> odyssey4me: can you pastebin a full debug dump?
[09:51] <cjwatson> the debug option you quoted earlier should be enough to get started with
[09:52] <cjwatson> you shouldn't need any special config, though perhaps there's something weird about the mirror you're using or about your existing config
[09:54] <odyssey4me> cjwatson ok, posting info to https://gist.github.com/odyssey4me/549131501f752dfe957d1ec151d62914 - just did one with a mixed set of repo sources, which also goes through apt-cacher-ng... I'll post another one now with just a plain default set of sources
[09:54] <odyssey4me> (and no apt-cacher-ng)
[09:55] <cjwatson> while acng should work, I'd rather start with as few things in the mix as possible
[09:56] <cjwatson> odyssey4me: so that info you've posted doesn't show a failure - I need one that does
[09:56] <cjwatson> nor does it even show fetching any Packages file at all
[09:56] <odyssey4me> oh, well, that's a problem - because it's not consistent
[09:57] <cjwatson> right, but you should be able to get it eventually presumably
[09:57] <cjwatson> there's no point in me spending time debugging the successful cases
[09:57] <odyssey4me> we're seeing it in CI jobs, so by the time we see it the host it happened on is gone
[09:57] <cjwatson> temporarily add -oDebug::Acquire::http=true to the CI job config?
[09:58] <odyssey4me> is there some sort of config I can add to have apt log things, then we can collect those logs?
[09:58] <cjwatson> you could drop in e.g. /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99debug with Debug::Acquire::http "true";
[09:59] <cjwatson> if that's easier than a command-line option
[09:59] <odyssey4me> will that drop info into /var/log/apt ?
[09:59] <cjwatson> no, stdout/stderr (I forget which) of apt
[09:59] <odyssey4me> hmm, ok - that's worth a try - thanks for the advice
[09:59] <odyssey4me> lemme give that a go, and I'll come back when I have something useful to peruse
[10:00] <odyssey4me> thanks Faux cjwatson jamespage :)
[10:00] <cjwatson> thanks.  it's worth capturing /etc/apt/sources.list too
[10:02] <odyssey4me> the only fail I have on record right now is the output from an ansible task which I've just added to https://gist.github.com/odyssey4me/549131501f752dfe957d1ec151d62914 - not sure if that helps at all
[10:04] <cjwatson> mm, not really enough detail unfortunately
[10:04] <cjwatson> odyssey4me: oh, and if you're using apt-cacher-ng, make sure that you have the fix or workaround linked from my blog entry
[10:05] <odyssey4me> I thought that was trusty only?
[10:05] <odyssey4me> It looked to me like xenial's package got patched?
[10:05] <cjwatson> if you're using xenial's acng then that should be OK, yes
[10:06] <cjwatson> but this is the kind of symptom you can get from a bug there - i.e. acng serves a by-hash file that turns out to not actually match the requested hash, then apt falls back to the non-by-hash version, and finds that it's out of sync due to old-fashioned mirror update in progress or whatever
[10:07] <cjwatson> the debug output should hopefully make this kind of thing clear
[10:08] <cjwatson> the by-hash scheme is generally more robust against cache breakage, but acng is a special case because it's sufficiently clever about the archive structure that if misconfigured it can undo the robustness savings
[10:09] <cjwatson> and I suppose it's also possible that the mirror.rackspace.com mirror sync script is incorrect and fails to put the new by-hash files in place before InRelease, which would also have a similar effect
[10:10] <cjwatson> in that case the debug output should show a 404 for the by-hash file followed by 200 for plain old Packages
[10:14] <odyssey4me> hmm, let me get hold of our mirror folks and see whether they've implemented the 2-step mechanism
[10:14] <odyssey4me> thanks again - really appreciate your time
[10:15] <cjwatson> they probably have two-stage sync (most decent mirrors do), but worth checking the details
[10:16] <cjwatson> specifically whether InRelease is excluded from the first stage
[10:17] <cjwatson> ubumirror is also unfortunately a bit wrong and we should reeeeally fix it
[10:18] <cjwatson> (it needs to exclude only Packages* Sources* Release* InRelease from the first stage, not all of dists/
[10:18] <cjwatson> )
[10:30] <Nafallo> ohhai :-)
[10:45] <Nafallo> cjwatson: we don't have a bug about that, right? (I create one otherwise)
[10:46] <cjwatson> I don't think so
[10:49] <Nafallo> bug 1771796
[11:41] <joelkraehemann> hi all
[11:42] <joelkraehemann> please consider for bionic because I don't feel like dealing with broken segmentation in files
[11:42] <joelkraehemann> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gsequencer/+bug/1770324
[12:19] <_0kx__> hi
[12:23] <_0kx__> is the bug known: 1.) i've entered the password in gdm3 in the first time wrong. after this, i've entered the password in the right way (second) and the login hangs up.
[12:23] <_0kx__> ?
[12:23] <_0kx__> thanks!
[12:24] <_0kx__> the bug appears after the upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04!
[12:25] <seb128> _0kx__, hey, yes, a fix has been commited this week and is being backported for a SRU
[12:26] <seb128> it's in the SRU queue waiting for review in fact now
[12:26] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/370642960/gdm3_3.28.0-0ubuntu1.1_source.changes
[12:39] <_0kx__> seb128: yeah, that's my bug. thanks a lot! there is hope.:-)
[12:40] <seb128> _0kx__, yw!
[13:10] <_0kx__> bye
[13:18] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Morning! Will you be around in about three hours to continue our conversation from yesterday?
[13:34] <rbasak> tsimonq2: yes. Ping me when you're ready.
[13:34] <rbasak> nacc: ^ FYI
[13:53] <tsimonq2> ACK
[14:32] <Nafallo> hello. anyone willing to sponsor a package change for bionic for me? the package became unusable this morning. http://people.ubuntu.com/~nafallo/lastpass-cli/
[14:33] <Nafallo> let me know if this is supposed to be in -motu :-)
[14:34] <Nafallo> quite sure I need to follow some policy I don't know about yet :-)
[14:40] <tsimonq2> Nafallo: Please file a bug, attach your diff, subscribe the sponsors team, and link it here.
[14:41] <tarzeau> can this be fixed somehow for 18.04? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/protracker/+bug/1769693
[14:43] <Nafallo> tsimonq2: cheers :-)
[14:44] <Nafallo> I suppose I should do this against cosmic to begin with :-)
[14:50] <rbasak> tarzeau: I commented on the bug
[14:54] <tsimonq2> rbasak, Nafallo: Cheers
[15:14] <Nafallo> I think bug 1555562 is ready for sponsorship now :-)
[16:01] <ddstreet> coreycb hey are ddebs getting built for uca pkgs yet, do you know?
[16:02] <coreycb> ddstreet: i dont think so. jamespage, do you know?
[16:03] <jamespage> ddstreet: nope
[16:03] <jamespage> well they get built but I don't think we've figured out the sync process yet
[16:12] <nacc> rbasak: ack
[16:16] <ddstreet> jamespage they get build in the private ppa tho, not -staging right
[16:17] <ddstreet> we need them in -staging so they're publicly available
[16:17] <jamespage> ddstreet: we really need to sync them to the actual cloud archive
[16:18] <jamespage> ddstreet: the packages get rebuilt in proposed so its not the same binary
[16:18] <ddstreet> jamespage that's fine, but unless you plan to leave them all there forever for all versions, that's not good enough
[16:18] <ddstreet> getting rebuilt is a problem, too
[16:18] <jamespage> why
[16:18] <jamespage> ?
[16:18] <ddstreet> you may not have to support (debug) old versions, but some people do, like my team
[16:19] <ddstreet> only making the latest ddebs available is nice for development, but not terribly useful for support/debugging
[16:19] <jamespage> ddstreet: I'd be happy to commit to doing the same as we do in the ubuntu archive - whats the policy for ddeb retention there?
[16:19] <ddstreet> jamespage 1-2 most recent versions, which is exactly why i said it's not enough
[16:19] <ddstreet> however all pkgs have ddebs in LP, which is what we are asking you to do
[16:20] <ddstreet> there's an existing bug for this, rather old, i'll find it
[16:20] <jamespage> lp was a full record of all build artefacts?
[16:20] <jamespage> ddstreet: yeah I know the one
[16:20] <ddstreet> k
[16:20] <ddstreet> no progress on it then?
[16:20] <jamespage> no
[16:21] <jamespage> its never quite managed to bubble to the top of the priorities list
[16:21] <ddstreet> any plan for there to be progress on it? ;-)
[16:21] <jamespage> ddstreet: do PPA builds keep full history as well?
[16:21] <ddstreet> jamespage yes
[16:22] <jamespage> so you can always grab the binaries from older versions - I did not know that
[16:22] <ddstreet> yes
[16:22] <ddstreet> see ppa:ddstreet/ubuntu-dev-tools which includes pull-lp-ddebs
[16:22] <ddstreet> can get ddebs for any package in LP history as long as it was actually built with ddebs
[16:23] <ddstreet> pull-lp-debs too, which is handy to reproduce issues on older versions (common requirement)
[16:24] <ddstreet> anyway it really would be nice to finally have ddebs for uca pkgs, it's a bit of a pain to debug stuff without any dbgsyms, which is what we have to do currently
[16:26] <tsimonq2> rbasak, nacc: Hi.
[16:27] <tsimonq2> Let's continue.
[16:28] <rbasak> o/
[16:29] <rbasak> tsimonq2: you mentioned lubuntu-artwork and one other yesterday. How long is the complete list?
[16:30] <rbasak> tsimonq2: and are there any on your list where the workflow (including VCS location, where it's derived from etc) is different from lubuntu-artwork?
[16:31] <cjwatson> ddstreet,jamespage: PPA builds do get garbage-collected after a while once they've been superseded by later versions.
[16:31] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Default settings and artwork  (as well as calamares-settings-ubuntu)we keep an up-to-date VCS to.
[16:31] <tsimonq2> rbasak: The rest would be good to have for tracking.
[16:31] <ddstreet> cjwatson that should be turned off for the UCA public ppa, then
[16:31] <cjwatson> ddstreet,jamespage: you may like to look at lp:ddeb-retriever, which is very carefully constructed to use the correct LP APIs for keeping up with publication flow
[16:32] <ddstreet> as i assume it is turned off for the ubuntu archives
[16:32] <cjwatson> ddstreet: oh, maybe it is for that particular case
[16:32] <rbasak> tsimonq2: how big is the rest?
[16:32] <rbasak> tsimonq2: and what do you mean by tracking?
[16:32] <cjwatson> ddstreet: Yeah, it is, assuming this is owned by ~ubuntu-cloud-archive
[16:33] <cjwatson> we have a blacklist of stuff that never gets expired
[16:33] <tsimonq2> rbasak: https://phab.lubuntu.me/diffusion/ is what we currently keep eyes on all the time.
[16:33] <rbasak> "    No repositories found for this query."
[16:33] <tsimonq2> Waat.
[16:35] <wxl> rbasak: tsimonq2: i see them all here
[16:35] <rbasak> Is a login required perhaps?
[16:35] <ddstreet> cjwatson hopefully the UCA -staging ppa is on that blacklist
[16:35] <wxl> shouldn't be but checking
[16:35] <rbasak> BTW, I only have about 25 minutes.
[16:35] <wxl> yep
[16:35] <wxl> that's it
[16:35] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Perhaps I need to play with permissions, but it's just settings, artwork, and the Calamares settings that we actively keep a rich history to, right now.
[16:35] <rbasak> First I'm just trying to understand your workflows
[16:35] <cjwatson> ddstreet: it's by owner, so if it's owned by ~ubuntu-cloud-archive then it is
[16:35] <tsimonq2> I would like to be able to extend that to be able to do some rich commits in some LXQt packages. We have some git repos which just contain me branching from Debian and adding patches.
[16:35] <rbasak> I hope it doesn't seem too much like an interrogation :)
[16:35] <cjwatson> ddstreet: if it's not then you need to stop abbreviating :)
[16:36] <rbasak> tsimonq2: so you'd be asking us to initially import those three packages for you? Just trying to understand scope.
[16:36] <tsimonq2> rbasak: You're fine, but I'm determined to figure something out here. ;)
[16:36] <ddstreet> yes, that's it, my fat fingers would surely misspell ~ubuntuy-cloud-archive ;-)
[16:36] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Yeah, but ideally we could have everything we explicitly seed imported.
[16:36] <wxl> man the policies suggest it should be viewable
[16:37] <rbasak> Let's start with just considering this set of three
[16:37] <tsimonq2> OK.
[16:37] <wxl> nope
[16:37] <wxl> actually it's per repository :/
[16:37] <rbasak> What do you expect to happen to the LP project VCS repositories you have at the moment?
[16:37] <wxl> fixing
[16:37] <ddstreet> cjwatson yeah ddeb-retriever is interesting, but it just grabs all ddebs for all pkgs in lp, which is a bit less fine-grained than pull-lp-ddebs ;-)
[16:38] <rbasak> Will they become a read only archive only, or will you still be pushing to them?
[16:38] <wxl> oh actually i think i made it all visible now
[16:38] <tsimonq2> rbasak: I still would like rich history, so pushing.
[16:38] <cjwatson> ddstreet: sure, I meant it for the case where jamespage perhaps wants to publish them in the cloud archive
[16:38] <wxl> no, that's just for new repos. ugh
[16:38] <cjwatson> ddstreet: or something along those lines
[16:38] <rbasak> tsimonq2: wouldn't you end up with two divergent repositories for each package then?
[16:38] <ddstreet> ah right yep definitely, i assume that's the standard way to publish them
[16:39] <rbasak> I see "rART Lubuntu Artwork" under https://phab.lubuntu.me/diffusion/ now - only one entry.
[16:39] <tsimonq2> rbasak: It would be good for rich history to be there, but if someone just dputs, importing that would be good.
[16:39] <wxl> keep refreshing
[16:39] <wxl> more are coming
[16:40] <ddstreet> cjwatson jamespage looks from the code like it might need to be modified tho, since it logs into LP anonymously while the ~ubuntu-cloud-archive source ppas are private
[16:40] <ddstreet> anyway
[16:40] <rbasak> tsimonq2: I still think you'll end up with divergence
[16:40] <rbasak> You'll get two parallel repositories
[16:40] <wxl> they're all there no
[16:40] <wxl> w
[16:40] <rbasak> wxl: I see them now thanks
[16:40] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Is there a way to not have them diverge?
[16:41] <cjwatson> ddstreet: sure, there would be plenty of details
[16:41] <tsimonq2> rbasak: nacc said something along those lines yesterday.
[16:41] <rbasak> tsimonq2: the easiest way would be for you to drop the other respository and use the git-ubuntu imported repository for everything only.
[16:42] <rbasak> That repository would become your single source of truth, and you wouldn't push any commits except in that repository.
[16:42] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Is that r/w or just r?
[16:42] <rbasak> It's r/o.
[16:42] <rbasak> If you need a holding area for changes yet to be uploaded, you could put that in a team repository branched from ubuntu/devel in the importer repository.
[16:42] <rbasak> When you upload from the holding area, you could provide that to the importer as rich history.
[16:43] <tsimonq2> How would that work?
[16:43] <rbasak> Providing the importer with rich history is currently limited to ~usd-import-team, but the plan is to make it possible for any uploader to provide the rich history automatically.
[16:43] <tsimonq2> Because that seems like what I'm looking for.
[16:43] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Is that Canonical-only right now?
[16:43] <rbasak> Let's see if I can summarise the importer's operation.
[16:44] <nacc> tsimonq2: it's what i described yesterday (approved MPs, e.g)
[16:44] <rbasak> The importer repository is read-only. We consider this essential as it is supposed to represent Launchpad's publication history as the single source of truth, and allowing anyone to push directly would break that.
[16:44] <tsimonq2> Right.
[16:45] <rbasak> So only the importer pushes to the "official" repositories and only in response to Launchpad publications of uploads.
[16:45] <rbasak> However, if you make available rich history to the importer, it can choose to adopt that rich history as part of the "official record" of how it got to a commit that matches a Launchpad publication.
[16:46] <rbasak> It will only adopt the rich history if the final commit of the rich history matches the published version exactly.
[16:46] <nacc> (it might be helpful to point to a server team merge to see the result)
[16:46] <tsimonq2> rbasak: So where does it look for that rich history?
[16:47] <rbasak> Currently the rich history is provided by pushing a tag with the appropriate name to the official repository. Which is not ideal, because we want to keep the repository read-only for all other purposes, and Launchpad currently doesn't permit refspec-based ACLs.
[16:47] <rbasak> In the long term, I think we'll be wrapping dput and supplying the importer with information on how to find the rich history corresponding to the upload in the changes file.
[16:48] <rbasak> Then the rich history can be obtained by the importer from any Launchpad git repository branch such as the one from your MP.
[16:48] <cjwatson> rbasak: That's scheduled for this cycle, FYI
[16:48] <tsimonq2> Can I have rich history and tag it, but still manually dpput?
[16:48] <tsimonq2> *dput
[16:49] <rbasak> We have an intermediate plan for the importer to be able to grab rich history by looking for them amongst approved MPs.
[16:49] <tsimonq2> Approved but not merged MPs, right?
[16:49] <rbasak> Right now the process to ensure that rich history is adopted is to push the tag with the rich history first (someone in ~usd-import-team and we call it the "upload tag") before dput.
[16:49] <rbasak> There is no wrapper currently.
[16:49] <rbasak> tsimonq2: yeah something like that.
[16:49] <cjwatson> (We haven't started it yet, but it's about halfway down my dept's "Infrastructure" roadmap list so it has a decent chance of finally getting done.)
[16:50] <rbasak> cjwatson: thanks. You understand that our plan no longer requires refspec-based ACLs though right?
[16:50] <rbasak> I mean it'd help right now, but long term we won't need them.
[16:50] <cjwatson> I lose track, but you mentioned it, that's all :)
[16:50] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Do you have an example of this in action? (Can you walk me through itt?)
[16:50] <tsimonq2> *it
[16:50] <cjwatson> (You're not the only people who've wanted it at various points)
[16:51] <rbasak> tsimonq2: maybe follow https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/ubuntu/+source/chrony/+git/chrony/+merge/345498?
[16:51] <rbasak> Actually that's not ready for upload.
[16:51] <rbasak> I can of course show you an MP where it happened, but I'm not sure whether that'll be helpful as it'll be in the past and not in action.
[16:51] <cpaelzer> sorry, I don't have the time this evening to make it ready rbasak
[16:52] <tsimonq2> rbasak: OK.
[16:52]  * tsimonq2 looks.
[16:52] <rbasak> In that MP, cpaelzer is working on an upload for chrony.
[16:52] <rbasak> When it's ready, he'll have a branch inside ~paezler with it ready.
[16:52] <rbasak> Someone in ~usd-import-team will run "git ubuntu tag --upload" on it, and then push the tag to the official repo.
[16:53] <rbasak> cpaelzer will then dput.
[16:53] <tsimonq2> dput to Debian?
[16:53] <rbasak> When the importer sees the upload published by Launchpad, it will look for the upload tag, find it, verify that the tree matches the upload and adopt it into the formal record.
[16:53] <rbasak> dput to Ubuntu.
[16:53] <rbasak> "Merge into: ubuntu/+source/chrony:debian/sid" is a hack.
[16:53] <cpaelzer> but dput to Debian would work just the same
[16:53] <rbasak> Really it won't be merged by anything.
[16:54] <rbasak> The importer will create the commit based primarly on Launchpad's publication history.
[16:54] <tsimonq2> rbasak: What's the logic behind the hack?
[16:54] <rbasak> We use debian/sid so the preview diff looks sane.
[16:54] <tsimonq2> Ohh, it's a merge from Debian?
[16:54] <tsimonq2> That'd make sense.
[16:54] <rbasak> It's a hack because usually MPs are intended to be merged by something like "git checkout target-branch && git merge proposed-branch".
[16:54] <tsimonq2> Right.
[16:55] <rbasak> Whereas our importer repositories reflect Launchpad's publications as the single source of truth.
[16:55] <tsimonq2> Will this be the way it is long term?
[16:55] <rbasak> So instead of doing a merge directly, we round trip through a Launchpad publication via dput
[16:55] <rbasak> When the importer sees the upload, it creates the merge commit based on the publication and not the MP.
[16:55] <tsimonq2> Right.
[16:56] <rbasak> For as long as Launchpad's publication history forms the official record for Ubuntu uploads, this will be how it has to be.
[16:56] <rbasak> One day very far in the future and not on any roadmap, Ubuntu may wish to switch to git repositories as the single source of truth, with uploads secondary to that. If and only if that happens, only then will MPs get merged directly.
[16:57] <tsimonq2> OK.
[16:57] <tsimonq2> So does Launchpad then have the tag from Debian on the Ubuntu tree as part of the merge, or at least a reference that this is a "merge" commit?
[16:57] <tsimonq2> (Once merged.)
[16:57] <nacc> tsimonq2: which way do you mean merge?
[16:57] <nacc> tsimonq2: Git-merge or Ubuntu-merge ?
[16:58] <rbasak> I need to go soon.
[16:58] <rbasak> If nacc is around he can take over.
[16:58] <nacc> rbasak: I can try and pick up a bit here
[16:58] <rbasak> Thanks
[16:58] <rbasak> My main concern is that you don't end up with two diverging repositories as I don't think that'll be useful for you workflow-wise.
[16:58] <nacc> right
[16:58] <rbasak> As I said, I'm quite happy to add your stuff to the whitelist if that's what you decide you want in the end.
[16:59] <tsimonq2> I'd say, do it.
[16:59] <tsimonq2> It would be good to try it out and play with it.
[16:59] <nacc> tsimonq2: afaict, what you'd end up doing is having the ubuntu LP repo for your srcpkg as 'pkg' (the default with `git-ubuntu`) and then you'd have your personal (or team's, any LP user reference) as "<LP user name>". Your active development would be in the remote at <LP user name>
[17:00] <nacc> you can do whatever  you want there, but you woudl eventually propose changes to the 'pkg' remote via a MP
[17:00] <rbasak> tsimonq2: send us an MP against https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/ubuntu/+source/chrony/+git/chrony/+merge/345498 please
[17:00] <nacc> rbasak: presumably not that? :)
[17:00] <rbasak> Oh
[17:00] <rbasak> Yeah. I meant: https://git.launchpad.net/usd-importer/tree/gitubuntu/source-package-whitelist.txt
[17:00] <rbasak> We've got some CI brokenness going on at the moment.
[17:00] <tsimonq2> Will do later this evening.
[17:00] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[17:01] <rbasak> I can manually use a newer whitelist, but I'd prefer to get it landed properly before activating it, unless you're in a real hurry.
[17:01] <rbasak> I'd estimate a week or so to do it properly.
[17:01] <tsimonq2> Nah, let's do it properly.
[17:01] <rbasak> But if you really want it sooner I can hack our importer instance up a bit.
[17:01] <rbasak> OK, thanks.
[17:02]  * rbasak EODs
[17:02] <tsimonq2> o/
[17:02] <nacc> powersj: is there a reason I can't get to https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/job/git-ubuntu-ci/427/?
[17:02] <tsimonq2> wxl: So we can stay on the same page... ^
[17:02] <nacc> referred to from https://code.launchpad.net/~racb/usd-importer/+git/usd-importer/+merge/345670
[17:02] <rbasak> It's broken for me too
[17:02] <nacc> weird
[17:03] <nacc> rbasak: ok
[17:03] <powersj> nacc: we have had some jenkins issues and the latest update blew away our pipeline jobs :\
[17:03] <nacc> powersj: urgh
[17:03] <powersj> yeah...
[17:03] <wxl> @tsimonq2: you referring me to your conversation with rbasak? if so, sounds good. let's see it when it's done. :)
[17:03] <udevbot> Error: "tsimonq2:" is not a valid command.
[17:03] <nacc> heh
[17:03] <tsimonq2> wxl: Yep; OK. :)
[17:04]  * tsimonq2 kicks the differently named udevbot.
[17:04] <nacc> wxl: tsimonq2: if you have any other questions, though, i can answer them in the meanwhile
[17:05] <wxl> i'm mainly going to let tsimonq2 run point on this and otherwise keep my hands out of the pot, but i'll find ya'll if things go south XD
[17:05] <nacc> heh
[17:21] <externalreality> I need more space for my VMs, So I scored a 970 Evo on amazon gift cards that have been building from birthday gifts and such
[17:54] <nacc> externalreality: wrong channel?
[17:59] <externalreality> nacc, ha, thx
[17:59] <nacc> externalreality: np :)
[18:35] <jbicha> bdmurray: could you review gnome-initial-setup for promotion to bionic? we're going to fix the failed (missing) bugfix in our next upload
[18:43] <bdmurray> jbicha: looking
[18:45] <bdmurray> jbicha: Could you explain what went wrong? How is it still the old ones?
[18:46] <jbicha> I must have badly merged the branches. Our packaging workflow wasn't very good as we're just starting to switch our packaging to git
[18:47] <jbicha> one complication was that it wasn't obvious to the person doing the previous uploads that we could actually do binary git patches to include the .png we needed
[18:49] <bdmurray> jbicha: okay
[20:43] <dmj_s76> ricotz: What's the difference between the ways nvidia's being packaged now?
[21:17] <tdaitx> hi, I need someone from desktop to take a look at a LP: #1765914, it seems dconf is reporting a wrong scale-factor, but I have no idea of the cause


[00:53] <sarnold> pitti: hello, 1499070 also appears to need a retrace
[04:20] <hallyn> slangasek: saw a debian-devel email about "32bit UIDs in the range 65536-4294967293 are reserved for dynamically allocated user accounts."  Curious where that comes from (and if it, as it sounds like, reserves all subuids)
[19:28] <fabri86live> ciao
[19:28] <fabri86live> !list


[07:15] <daniels> bob2: how?!?
[07:16] <ogra> daniels: i already tried to give V/Hsync values....
[07:17] <daniels> ogra: if you did Option "HorizSync" "12-34", don't
[07:17] <daniels> you need HorizSync 12-34
[07:17] <daniels> and VertRefresh 12-34
[07:17] <daniels> but if that fails, i really have no idea
[07:18] <ogra> mako: "Point me to the bars full of ubuntu users!" -> should have a wiki page with preferred bars ;)
[07:18] <ogra> daniels: i'll have to reinstall hoary first..... i'll answer you during the night if it works :)
[07:19] <Kamion> ogra: I think you mean 6.8.2?
[07:19] <ogra> Kamion: the hoary version..... yep.... wasnt sure about the minor num.... :)
[07:20] <mako> ogra: well.if your in nyc, it's going to be the belgian beer bar tonight :)
[07:20] <mako> ogra: we should have at least half a dozen of them
[07:22] <ogra> mako: unfortunately i have to drive about 20km to the next bar here...... but if i'm in nyc i'll ask you before ;)
[07:25] <fabbione> lamont: did pitti fix that ftbfs?
[07:26] <thom> new sysvinit uploaded, i'm net.dead for the weekend in all probably
[07:26] <thom> ciao
[07:26] <fabbione> ciao thom
[07:26] <fabbione> have fun
[07:26] <thom> and you
[07:27] <fabbione> thanks mate
[07:27] <fabbione> i am going to work in the living room this time :-)
[07:27] <fabbione> sandpapering walls..
[07:27] <fabbione> sandpapering more walls..
[07:27] <fabbione> put up glue and glassfiber
[07:27] <fabbione> it's an endless job
[08:03] <elmo> is there anyway with ACPI to get a description of what a thermal zone actually relates to/
[08:03] <elmo> I've got one here that claims to be 8C, which seems, err, dubious, unless it's like a thermal monitor on the right side of a fan or something
[08:06] <mdz> Kamion: I have seen that bug where udev never seems to get going in d-i
[08:06] <mdz> Kamion: it's happened to me about 3 times, in qemu and on real hardware, during live cd testing
[08:06] <mdz> running udevstart clears it up
[08:08] <mdz> lamont: /etc/apt/sources.list ends up with lines beginning with "echo" in it
[08:08] <mdz> lamont: in your cloop image
[08:13] <smurfix> mdz: a few bits in universe still want libflac4. Are you going to fix these too, or should I?
[08:16] <mdz> smurfix: I don't plan to fix them, no, feel free
[09:02] <mdz> mjg59: around?
[09:04] <mjg59> Yup
[09:04] <lamont_r> mdz: changing the sources.list to match the default install, comments, etc.  (although uncommenting hoary.. - it'll want to include hoary-security once that exists...)
[09:05] <mdz> mjg59: what data ought we collect in order to have some chance at predicting whether suspend will work properly on a given laptop?
[09:06] <mjg59> Currently, there's no good way other than doing it on a machine by machine basis
[09:06] <mjg59> But DMI information ought to be enough
[09:08] <mdz> mjg59: so we're building a hardware database, and I'd like to know what we should be sure to have in it for the sake of the laptop team
[09:08] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[09:08] <mjg59> PCI output and dmi contents ought to be fine
[09:09] <lamont_r> mdz: wondering if the image build process should remove resolv.conf and hostname, etc, or not...
[09:09] <mdz> ok, PCI is a done deal, I'll be sure to have DMI in the spec
[09:09] <mdz> what about non-x86?
[09:10] <mjg59> The only non-x86 we can deal with is Apple hardware, and that's fairly well understood
[09:13] <elmo> ITANIUM LAPTOPS!
[09:14] <lamont_r> elmo: for those who never want to have children!
[09:17] <mxpxpod> has ffmpeg been approved by ubuntu since debian approved it?
[09:19] <cartman> mxpxpod: debian approved it?
[09:19] <lamont_r> mdz: alpha2 is what I'm looking for, yes?
[09:20] <mdz> lamont_r: yes, but it's a bit disappointing
[09:20] <lamont_r> I see.
[09:20] <mdz> lamont: it uses 2.6.9 to boot, so you get no modules
[09:20] <mdz> I didn't realize that until after we takled
[09:20] <mdz> talked
[09:20] <lamont_r> I could give you a 2.6.9 kernel on the image, too.
[09:20] <mdz> I'd rather just get a 2.6.10 initrd from Kamion
[09:20] <lamont_r> 'a
[09:21] <lamont_r> 'k, even
[09:21] <mdz> it looks like today's is already 2.6.10
[09:21] <mdz> but it doesn't have casper-check :-/
[09:21] <lamont_r> hrmpf.  /me wanted to download something now though. :-)
[09:21] <mxpxpod> cartman: that's what I heard on planet.debian.org... go there and search for ffmpeg
[09:21] <cartman> hmm
[09:21] <cartman> then mplayer can be accepted too
[09:23] <cartman> http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/ffmpeg.html
[09:23] <cartman> wow they even accepted cvs version
[09:24] <lamont_r> mdz: wonder if I can get away with stubbing out ps...
[09:24] <mxpxpod> cartman: also, gst-ffmpeg will get in as well
[09:25] <cartman> mxpxpod: no need for marillat then
[09:25] <lamont_r> mdz: cupsys has issues installing in a chroot on a machine where cupsys is running.  feh
[09:25] <cartman> cool
[09:26] <lamont_r> mdz: actually, changing cupsys to just use stop-start-daemon like a good boy would do the trick, eh?
[09:27] <mdz> lamont_r: yeah, and would make it policy-compliant to boot
[09:28] <lamont_r> this is in _POSTINST_.
[09:28] <lamont_r> sheesh
[09:30] <Keybuk> gah, I forgot to cast the correct magic runes to make nautilus build
[09:30] <amu> cloop_2.01.5-2ubuntu1_source.changes ACCEPTED
[09:36] <lamont_r> amu: no crossing fingers until at least ubuntu4
[09:36] <lamont_r> :-)
[09:37] <lamont_r> sheesh.  new gnome, xorg, and kernel.  mirror's gonna take a while
[09:41] <amu> lamont_r: about 200mb :)
[09:41] <lamont_r> ouch
[09:42] <amu> lamont_r: already tested with your script and got the image
[09:44] <amu> lamont_r: cloop_2.01.5-2ubuntu1_20050107-2038-i386-successful ... sometimes it realy help if you're crossing fingers ;)
[09:44] <lamont_r> yeah
[09:45] <smurfix> sivang: exactly. Nothing new unfortunately.
[09:46] <amu> lamont_r: I try the script now on ppc
[09:46] <sivang> smurfix: but I though the polish one just stopped such from happening no?
[09:47] <sivang> smurfix: polish vote
[09:49] <smurfix> "delayed" is more correct. The fight's not over yet. Besides, most of these refer to US patents.
[09:51] <sivang> smurfix: true, I've spotted acouple of a adobeies there :)
[09:52] <sivang> smurfix: now that's not a surprise..
[09:55] <smurfix> Hmm. "Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz  MD5Sum mismatch". Does anybody else see this, or do I need to dropkick my squid?
[09:58] <lamont_r> I'd vote for dropkickking
[09:58] <lamont_r> bbiab
[10:24] <mdz> elmo: if there's anything you can do to kick flac_1.1.1-1 out of the archive prematurely, that'd be swell. the fewer people upgrade to it, the better
[10:25] <Kamion> mdz: hm? today's initrd should have casper-check ...
[10:26] <Kamion> mdz: c.f. network --bootproto=static --ip=<IP_ADDRESS> --netmask=<IP_ADDRESS> \
[10:26] <Kamion> d'oh
[10:26] <mdz> Kamion: daily-installer-i386/current/images/cdrom/initrd.list doesn't have it
[10:26] <Kamion> mdz: c.f. http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-i386/20041227ubuntu2/images/cdrom/initrd.list
[10:26] <Kamion> mdz: use installer-i386
[10:26] <mdz> oh
[10:26] <mdz> what is daily- then?
[10:26] <Kamion> I only uploaded the changes today, the subsequent daily run hasn't happened yet
[10:27] <mdz> ah
[10:27] <mdz> so sometimes daily is newer, and sometimes not
[10:27] <Kamion> mdz: installer-* = when somebody uploads the debian-installer source package; daily-installer-* = nightly based on the last debian-installer source package
[10:27] <Kamion> exactly; I have a convenient switch on cdimage which I can flip to make it use one or the other
[10:32] <mdz> Kamion: is there anything else you need in order to add live CDs to the daily CD build process?
[10:33] <Kamion> time? :-) no, I don't think so
[10:34] <Kamion> I'm having a look at what's needed now, may be Sunday before it works though
[10:36] <Kamion> the first cut will be crude and won't use the casper seed
[10:36] <Kamion> (because it turns out that the current install CD stuff doesn't actually use the installer seed to decide what udebs to include *ahem*)
[10:36] <Kamion> (at least, not directly)
[10:39] <mdz> crude would be great
[10:39] <mdz> a crude autobuilt daily CD is a huge step forward from my crude handbuilt CDs
[10:39] <Kamion> indeed :)
[10:40] <mdz> I expect lamont will have the filesystem images available for the big three architectures this evening
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: is linux-kernel-restricted-di-2.6 still used?
[10:53] <elmo> uh
[10:53] <elmo> what in god's name happened to the seeds
[10:53] <elmo> mono?
[10:54] <mdz> elmo: what, just today?
[10:54] <Kamion> mdz: no
[10:54] <elmo> yeah, after thom's update
[10:55] <mdz> Kamion: can it be removed from the archive?
[10:55] <Kamion> mdz: for hoary, yes
[10:55] <Kamion> obviously still needed for warty
[10:55] <mdz> elmo: please remove  linux-kernel-restricted-di-2.6 from hoary
[10:55] <elmo> is it superseded by something or just obsolete?
[10:56] <mdz> it's superseded by linux-source
[10:56] <Kamion> no, it's superseded by linux-restricted-modules-*
[10:56] <mdz> or linux-restricted-modules
[10:57] <elmo> done
[10:58] <elmo> mdz: am I insane or was the verdict on mono that the stuff wasn't ready for supported?
[10:58] <mdz> elmo: the last verdict was that we would accept and deal with it given an application that we actually wanted (which needed mono)
[10:59] <Kamion> wow, overreaction from baz
[10:59] <mdz> elmo: if it's incredibly fucked or something, we can reconsider...is it actually buildable and installable and stuff?
[10:59] <Kamion> if you ask for a delta against a patch that doesn't exist, it says "corrupt archive"
[10:59] <elmo> mdz: I've no idea, I've not looked at it.. I guess I'm just having false memory syndrome
[11:00] <mvo_> mdz: what's your feeling about the synaptic-dpkg-progress bar stuff I send a mail about to ubuntu-devel some days go? is there a chance to get the needed (small) patches into apt and dpkg?
[11:01] <elmo> mdz: the apps they've put in are tomboy and muine
[11:01] <elmo> anyway, fuck this for a laugh, I'm sending you the list so you can take some of the blame
[11:02] <elmo> mdz: people.ubuntu.com/~james/to_sync.txt
[11:05] <seb128> elmo: gstreamer0.8 0.8.8 sync please
[11:06] <elmo> seb128: do you get super screw-the-freeze powahs for gnome stuff?
[11:06] <seb128> not afaik, I need that ?
[11:07] <seb128> elmo: BTW are the package from experimental autosynced ? ie: we have pango 1.6.0-1 from exp, 1.6.0-2 is auto-updated or I need to ask a sync ?
[11:07] <elmo> oh, we're only in Upstream Version freeze, aren't we
[11:07] <seb128> that doesn't affect GNOME
[11:08] <elmo> seb128: nope, not auto-synced, my syncing isn't clever enough to keep track of where packages came from, unfortunately
[11:08] <elmo> seb128: ah, okay --> supah powahs
[11:08] <seb128> elmo: ok, so we need pango1.0 1.6.0-2 from exp :)
[11:08] <seb128> elmo: yeah, gimme the supah powaaaahs :)
[11:09] <seb128> elmo: the new versions are blocked by a technical way, or we just count on people to not upload a new version ?
[11:10] <elmo> seb128: we rely on the iron fist of mdz
[11:10] <seb128> ah ah
[11:10] <elmo> dude, he can walk up walls; I wouldn't mess with him
[11:10] <seb128> :)
[11:11] <seb128> bah, I don't care, I've a special GNOME card which is a joker :p
[11:11] <elmo> that's a harsh, yet fair way to describe jdub
[11:11] <elmo> you mean pango 1.8.0-2, btw, right?
[11:11] <seb128> oups, yes
[11:12] <elmo> ok, both syncs done
[11:12] <seb128> thanks
[11:17] <Keybuk> seb128: I guess you know that the panel's Places menu notify-me-it-changed-fu is pooched, ya?
[11:17] <Kamion> sheesh, the CDs were still booting with devfs=mount,dall
[11:17] <seb128> Keybuk: iz inotify bug
[11:17] <seb128> or gamin
[11:18] <seb128> Keybuk: #5176
[11:18] <Keybuk> *chuckle*  Jeff's "perfect solution" in "not actually finished yet" shocker
[11:20] <Keybuk> is there an easy/quick way to turn off inotify, that you know of?
[11:24] <mvo_> I'm going to bed now
[11:24] <mdz> Kamion: I wondered that as well
[11:24] <smurfix> Kamion: Looks like a "we have a problem we don't quite understand, and this fixes the symptom" hack.
[11:24] <sivang> mvo_: night
[11:24] <mvo_> night sivang, night all
[11:25] <Kamion> mdz: I've removed it, fairly certain it's bogus
[11:25] <Kamion> smurfix: I think it's actually "this was needed somewhere in the dawn of time and nobody remembered to remove it when things changed"
[11:26] <smurfix> Kamion: Yeah -- the boundaries between these two tend to be somewhat fluid, so we may well both be right.
[11:28] <Kamion> :-)
[11:30] <mako> whiprush: you around?
[11:31] <whiprush> yeah
[11:32] <Kamion> mdz,lamont: OK, I think I've got most of the bits together to build CDs now; all I need is the exact URL.
[11:32] <mako> whiprush: cool.. i've got #16 done. do you have time to read through it? fix errors/etc?
[11:33] <whiprush> sure, just getting home, gimme 10 to settle in.
[11:33] <mdz> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/mdz/livecd.cloop is the one that he gave me
[11:33] <Kamion> lamont: (as in, the tail of the URL, I know everything up to .../~buildd/)
[11:33] <mdz> that has 2.6.10 modules on it and seems to work with my test CD
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, that's not the per-arch buildd thing I had earlier though
[11:34] <mako> whiprush: i'm gonna run off for an hour or so.. so i'll just let you have it :)
[11:34] <Kamion> though I s'pose I can kick off a test build with that
[11:34] <mako> whiprush: email me tonight and i'll just merge back in and post when i'm done :)
[11:34] <mako> whiprush: also, add something in the intro about how you're helping out now :)
[11:35] <whiprush> k
[11:35] <Kamion> also I've only done the bootloader bits for amd64 and i386 so far
[11:35] <mdz> Kamion: I hacked up a test CD with kernel module udebs from the archive + initrd/vmlinuz from your d-i upload + lamont's filesystem image, and it worked
[11:36] <mako> whiprush: cool.. the new traffic is in my baz archive on the mirror
[11:37] <Kamion> eek, it's confused the hell out of diff-tasks
[11:37] <mako> whiprush: send me an email or an irc msg when you think it's good to go. and thanks!
[11:37] <whiprush> k
[11:37] <mdz> what's diff-tasks?
[11:38] <mako> i have a debian+ubuntu party i need get ready for for (it's at my house!)
[11:38] <Kamion> mdz: the thing that runs each cdimage cron.daily to mail me about differences in base/desktop/ship/supported since the last cron.daily
[11:39] <Kamion> hm, jigdo not such a good idea on the live image :)
[11:39] <mdz> no...it would be sweet to make rsync work, though
[11:39] <mdz> I wonder how much work it would be to graft the gzip --rsyncable bits onto create_compressed_fs
[11:41] <seb128> Keybuk: oups, better to highlight me to be sure I read a reply :p Rebuilding gamin with --disable-inotify should do it I guess
[11:51] <mdz> Kamion: while you're there, it would be nice to have a much larger ramdisk
[11:52] <Kamion> where's that set?
[11:52] <crimsun> do we know about http://isec.pl/vulnerabilities/isec-0021-uselib.txt ? (I only did a rudimentary /lastlog -regexp "isec.pl", sorry if it's a repeat)
[11:53] <mdz> Kamion: ramdisk_size on the kernel command line usually
[11:53] <Kamion> mdz: doesn't that only govern the initrd?
[11:53] <mdz> when the live CD runs out of ramdisk, everything falls apart
[11:54] <mdz> Kamion: I'm pretty sure it sets the size of all /dev/ramN
[11:54] <mdz> the current one seems to be not much more than enough to get the system going
[11:55] <mdz> we'll bring that requirement down through tuning, but for now...
[11:55] <Kamion> crimsun: pitti's aware, yeah, should be fixed soon
[11:55] <crimsun> Kamion: all right, thanks.
[11:55] <Kamion> mdz: does setting it to $HUGE impose memory requirements?
[11:55] <mdz> Kamion: it shouldn't
[11:55] <Kamion> i.e. if you set it to 64MB will it break a 32MB system?
[11:55] <Kamion> ok
[11:55] <mdz> should be virtual memory
[11:55] <mdz> I certainly don't think it allocates 20M or whatever now
[11:56] <sivang> seb128: GNOME is exempt from UFV as I heared :)
[11:57] <seb128> sivang: yep, that would be a non-sense to freeze 2.9.3 ...
[11:58] <mdz> The RAM disk dynamically grows as more space is required. It does this by using
[11:58] <mdz> RAM from the buffer cache. The driver marks the buffers it is using as dirty
[11:58] <mdz> so that the VM subsystem does not try to reclaim them later.
[11:58] <sivang> seb128: yes, if we did, we would loose all the wonderful magic of network-admin :)
[11:58] <seb128> sivang: there is something new planned ?
[11:58] <sivang> seb128: garnacho has been working hard on applet integration
[11:58] <seb128> cool
[11:58] <sivang> seb128: for monitoring the isdn connection and others..
[11:58] <Kamion> bleh, it included all the .debs too
[11:58] <Kamion> confused
[11:58] <mdz> that'll be a big image
[11:58] <Kamion> yeah :)
[11:59] <Kamion> >1GB
[11:59] <Kamion> oh, I know
[12:00] <gsuveg> re
[12:02] <mdz> jdub: ping?