[00:09] <karni> fagan: Have you read through the bug report about U1 closed-source server?
[00:11] <karni> fagan: to be precise - you marked it as "Invalid", why haven't you marked it as "Won't fix" instead?
[00:11] <karni> fagan: IMHO masking it "Invalid" will only continue the dispute. Both Elliot and Martin marked it "Won't fix", respecting the comments contents in the report.
[01:00] <dobey> karni: he changed it in "easypeasy-project"; while probably just as annoying, it really shouldn't be a task on that bug anyway
[01:00] <karni> dobey: Uh o_O
[01:01] <dobey> exactly
[01:05] <lifeless> karni: fagan: there is also 'opinion' (as in , its your opinion that being closed source is a defect)
[01:05] <karni> lifeless: I marked one bug (in our project) as an Opinion for the first time today :)
[01:31] <AJenbo> jeg var 17
[01:31] <AJenbo> oops
[01:36] <dobey> "Opinion" is the dumbest bug status ever.
[01:37] <duanedesign>  i would +1 that
[01:38] <dobey> it's like the condescending sister of "Wishlist"
[01:39] <duanedesign> :D
[01:49] <AJenbo> lol
[02:03] <karni> dobey: I had a user stating that Android UI theme should comply with the system theme (Android 2.2+ tend to be dark). There was another user saying that he likes the light/white theme of the app, and he'd like it to stay that way. What the former user said - is that a wishlist? To me, it's more of an opinion, subject to discussion.
[02:05] <dobey> karni: i think it's a cage match. let them fight it out.
[02:06] <karni> dobey: :D
[02:22] <AJenbo> karni, lots of apps has two themes for this reason
[02:23] <karni> AJenbo: I'm not saying we shouldn't. The question is, if we should stick with Light theme on Android 2.2+ . We could even make it a setting, I don't mind.
[02:26] <AJenbo> so it's an opinion that could quickly be turned in to a wishlist :)
[02:26] <AJenbo> that reminds me, i should go sign up for a year of mobile ubuntu one
[02:27] <AJenbo> *Just got a job
[02:31] <karni> :)
[02:33] <fagan> karni: well its invalid against easypeasy which is a different distro its wont fix against the server but its invaild against something different if you get me
[02:33] <karni> fagan: yes, I didn't notice you invalidated it under the other project
[02:34] <fagan> karni: sorry was out at my more or less brothers birthday so wasnt around to respond earlier
[02:34] <karni> fagan: np bro
[02:35] <AJenbo> wow i spend this weekend selebrating my bortheres more or less birthday, maybe we are the same person?
[02:36] <fagan> AJenbo: well this is my dad's girlfriend's son who ive known since I was 4 so he is more or less my brother :)
[02:36] <fagan> karni: see you in the morning :)
[02:36] <karni> fagan: yup!
[02:37] <karni> fagan: not really. I don't expect to show up earlier than 12 ;d
[02:37] <karni> crap, I need to go sleep lol
[02:37] <karni> nearly 4AM
[02:37] <AJenbo> arh, so maybe we are opposits : )
[02:37] <karni> programming is so fascinating it's gonna kill me one day xD
[02:37] <fagan> karni: well I installed the thing from the list no problem but havent tested it ill give word back if there are any issues :)
[02:38] <AJenbo> same here, i have to be at a job consulting meating at 10
[02:38] <karni> fagan: oh cool!! thanks :)
[02:38] <fagan> karni: nice job getting something ready though
[02:38] <fagan> karni: night night
[02:39] <karni> fagan: we're getting there, one step at a time (been working like crazy these days :) )
[02:39] <karni> night guys!
[02:39] <fagan> AJenbo: ive been up since 7 am so im starting to feel it now
[02:40] <AJenbo> ouch, i got up at 14:00
[02:40] <AJenbo> Hope your not stressing
[02:41] <fagan> AJenbo: oh no the oposite im an intern my job is kinda not to stress and learn as much as I can in a short period
[02:41] <AJenbo> hmm U1 dosn't seam to respect the bandwith limit, do i need to restart the deamon?
[02:42] <fagan> AJenbo: I dont have a clue but it should work right away
[02:42] <fagan> if its not file a bug
[02:42] <AJenbo> dang
[02:42] <AJenbo> it's just blasting away at 160Kbps eveaving my youtobe and facebook hanging.
[02:43] <duanedesign> i think their is a bug report already about that
[02:43] <AJenbo> I cleaned up the tags on my mp3's what a nightmare :(
[02:44] <AJenbo> still need to upload 25% of it.
[02:44] <AJenbo> I think it's been going for 3 dayes, and i just downgraded my connection last month leaving me with half the upstream connection :(
[02:45] <AJenbo> I demand symetric connections damit!
[02:45]  * fagan has 2.7mb/s so bandwith isnt the issue
[02:45] <duanedesign> AJenbo: bug 720707
[02:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720707 in ubuntuone-storage-protocol "Bandwidth limit is not correctly enforced: Transmission delays are inserted between data chunk writes (of arbitrary sizes) (affects: 17) (dups: 5) (heat: 65)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720707
[02:46] <fagan> duanedesign: beat me to it :)
[02:46] <AJenbo> duanedesign, thanks :)
[02:46] <fagan> i was just scanning the bug list for it
[02:47] <fagan> anyway im off to bed later everyone
[02:47] <duanedesign> night fagan
[02:47] <AJenbo> Should get an array of humands implemented instead of the current search algorithem in LP ;)
[02:48] <fagan> see you later duanedesign
[02:48] <fagan> AJenbo: well there is an array of humans they are just forgetful :)
[02:49] <fagan> (at least for the u1 team anyway)
[02:50] <duanedesign> i try and keep a list of bugs i reference frequently in a tomboy note because searching for bugs can be  a pain at times
[02:51] <fagan> duanedesign: I suppose I havent been around long enough to know what should be on a list like that
[02:51] <AJenbo> duanedesign, good idea, i should realy start using tomboy more
[02:51] <fagan> so I dont yet
[02:52] <AJenbo> it seams to be more avalible with unity
[02:52] <AJenbo> I also do a grate deal of support in the danish comunity
[02:52] <AJenbo> and a bit in the translations department
[02:53] <fagan> AJenbo: im translations manager for the irish language :D
[02:55] <AJenbo> Cool :)
[02:56] <AJenbo> so you guys are at 100% and actually leading in the translations stats :o
[02:57] <AJenbo> no wait that is me not reding the name correctly
[02:58] <AJenbo> I'm part of the Danish translation team by the way.
[03:01] <AJenbo> Seams your 97'th with 11%
[03:01] <fagan> AJenbo: I think the irish language is well below the well used languages in terms of translations
[03:01] <fagan> there isnt anybody dedicated too it which is a shame
[03:02] <AJenbo> It it the same as Scottish? The list sayes "Gaelic; Scottish"
[03:02] <fagan> AJenbo: no its pretty different
[03:03] <AJenbo> Oh, i thourght that you guys would be all over this, as i understand it there is a group trying to keep Gaelic alive.
[03:03] <AJenbo> http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/stats/ubuntu-11.04-translation-stats.html
[03:04] <fagan> AJenbo: we are its just the govergnment arent really to supportive of translations efforts which is a real pain
[03:04] <AJenbo> arh :/
[03:05] <fagan> we have a tv channel and lots of people who are passionate about it but no one seems to want to translate it
[03:05] <fagan> and not many know about ubuntu being available for translation either
[03:05] <fagan> anyway have to go anyway have work early
[03:06] <AJenbo> yeah it's probably a neach with in a neach
[03:06] <fagan> night night for reals :D
[03:06] <AJenbo> oh right :)
[03:06] <fagan> AJenbo: yeah thats a good way of puting it
[03:06] <AJenbo> ttyl or some thing
[03:06] <fagan> AJenbo: laters
[03:16] <AJenbo> Should i report that the web site is saying that a year of u1mobile will be 0,8€, or jues press on with my purshas...
[03:19] <AJenbo> Oops, sorry I missed the note.
[03:19] <AJenbo> Any way the process keeps failing to compleat so I guess ill try again tomorrow
[08:31] <mandel> morning!
[08:32] <ralsina> hola manuel
[08:55] <fagan> morning
[09:06] <rye> pinging karni
[09:06] <rye> but he is not here so i will just wait for him here
[09:11] <fagan> rye: he was around at 3.30T
[09:11] <fagan> UTC last night
[09:12] <fagan> rye: so you might be waiting till 11 or 12
[09:12] <rye> fagan, thanks, will wait further though :)
[09:13] <rodrigo_> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/evolution-couchdb/+bug/727370/comments/47
[09:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 727370 in evolution-couchdb (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Contacts not syncing with my computer (affects: 36) (dups: 16) (heat: 244)" [Low,Confirmed]
[09:13] <rodrigo_> seems couchdb is not installed by default on a fresh install in natty
[09:14] <rye> rodrigo_, it is not, one needs to install it via the control panel
[09:15] <rodrigo_> rye, can you add a comment to the bug please?
[09:48] <rye> rodrigo_, done
[09:49] <rodrigo_> rye, thanks
[10:01] <mandel> hello, may I get some good reviews for this guy: https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-dev-tools/allow_txnamedpipes_reactor/+merge/61515
[10:04] <JamesTait> Good morning!
[10:35]  * mandel really needs a walk
[10:55] <fagan> morning karni
[10:55] <karni> hey hey fagan
[11:21] <jussi> o/
[11:21] <jussi> SO, is there a way to share files with someone without making them "public" - ie. give a url + password to $friend?
[11:22] <karni> jussi: share a folder with a file in it?
[11:22] <karni> jussi: there's no url + password pattern, at least not yet.
[11:23] <jussi> karni: hrm, ok. but I can share with another ubuntu one user, (only to that user)?
[11:24] <karni> jussi: I don't understand the question. If you share a folder with U1 user, they will get an e-mail notifying there's a share they can accept. If they're not U1 users, they will be also able to register first.
[11:25] <jussi> karni: yeah, thats what I thought, I am just trying to verify that the folder in question wont be shared with the world.
[11:25] <karni> jussi: no, not at all :)
[11:25] <jussi> karni: excellent, thanks very much
[11:25] <karni> jussi: you can't _publish_ a folder
[11:25] <karni> jussi: yw
[11:28] <jussi> karni: one final thing, how functional is the windows "beta"?  can I safely use it for production items? (Ie. it wont eat my files, even if it fails somewhere else)
[11:29] <karni> mandel: fagan: ↑
[11:34] <duanedesign> morning all
[11:34] <jussi> Morning duanedesign :)
[11:35] <duanedesign> hello jussi!
[11:38] <ralsina> jussi: the main problem reported with the current beta is that sometimes it willeat lots of CPU
[11:38] <mandel> jussi: the beta is not something I'd use everyday unless you really need to
[11:39] <ralsina> jussi: I have not seen reports of file-eating, but you should wait for mandel to confirm ;-)
[11:39] <jussi> ralsina: ok, Im just thinking to share with a non technical client, and ideally I'd like to use ubuntuone to do that.
[11:39] <ralsina> OTOH, not meant for production use, caveat emptor and such
[11:39] <jussi> However, If I need to find another solution, thats fine.
[11:40] <jussi> Is there a roadmap for when it is suppsed to come out of beta?
[11:43] <rye> karni, ping, u1 files shows tmpsomething files that web ui does not show :)
[11:44] <karni> rye: you mind telling me an exact, example, file name I should hide?
[11:44] <ralsina> jussi: yes there is, but I can't give any specific dates, sorry
[11:44] <ralsina> jussi: it's "soonish", I would say.
[11:45] <jussi> ralsina: ok, thanks. :)
[11:45] <rye> karni, no, i mean that it does not show up on the web ui but it shows up in the listing. Looks like either web ui does not see something or your application sees too much. Trying with restful api...
[11:46] <karni> rye: that's my question. web UI probably hides some tmp files. I just need to know which files should I hide if they are indeed temporary :)
[11:46] <mandel> jussi: it does not eat files, but is not ready for life dependent files, and it is a beta
[11:47] <jussi> mandel: ok, that pretty much is wht I thought, thanks for your time.
[11:47] <mandel> jussi: no problemlo :)
[11:48] <rye> beuno, ping, is there anything webui may not show? I see i have tmp files in Ubuntu One http://paste.ubuntu.com/610017/ but web ui does not show them
[11:49] <rye> karni, >>> n.path -> u'/tmp0Nv06K' >>> n.size -> (nothing) >>> n.kind -> u'file'
[11:50] <rye> o_O
[11:50] <karni> rye: where's that from? rest python client?
[11:51] <rye> karni, uh-huh
[11:51] <karni> rye: looks like I'll have to filter out tmp* files with ..... (nothing) size o_O
[11:51] <rye> karni, no no no, it has no hash and it has no size, but it has generation number
[11:52] <rye> karni, something is weird here
[11:52] <karni> rye: I believe I would have a 0 file size in Java then ;)
[11:53] <rye> karni, {"kind": "file", "public_url": null, "hash": null, "when_created": "2011-02-24T18:16:31Z", "generation": 32659, "content_path": "/content/~/Ubuntu One/tmp0Nv06K", "generation_created": 32659, "parent_path": "/~/Ubuntu One", "resource_path": "/~/Ubuntu One/tmp0Nv06K", "when_changed": "2011-02-24T18:16:31Z", "key": "0qRKbKK2TOSOmL57n-JrKw", "is_public": false, "path": "/tmp0Nv06K", "volume_path": "/volumes/~/Ubuntu One", "size": null}
[11:54] <karni> rye: that shouldn't be even served from the server in my opinion :/
[11:54] <rye> karni, whatever this is... it is not a file
[11:54] <karni> jdobrien: vds: ↑
[11:54] <rye> jdobrien, ping
[11:55] <jdobrien> rye, pong
[11:55] <rye> jdobrien, while testing karni's application i noticed i have some files in Ubuntu One that are not in my storage locally or do not display on the web ui. The paste above is the json info about one of such files. null size, null hash
[11:56] <karni> jdobrien: rye retrieved that with the python rest client
[11:57] <rye> karni, that json was retrieved directy by GET to that url via browser
[11:57] <jdobrien> rye, those files won't download nor will they show up on the web
[11:57] <jdobrien> rye, but your client will have metadata for them
[11:57] <karni> rye: o_O how did you authenticate that request?
[11:58] <karni> jdobrien: this looks like a temporary file, should I ignore such files?
[11:58] <rye> karni, i've got cookies!
[11:58] <karni> rye: huh
[11:58] <rye> jdobrien, is it ok to have them?
[11:58] <rye> karni, cookie-based session authentication, using the browser
[11:58] <karni> jdobrien: why would a client need to know about such files? what are they?
[11:58] <karni> rye: right
[11:59] <jdobrien> karni, files with no content are only needed for the syncdaemon. I would ignore them outside of it
[11:59] <karni> jdobrien: will do that. thank you
[11:59] <rye> karni, should I open a bug to ignore them?
[11:59] <karni> rye: that would be great
[12:00] <karni> rye: thanks
[12:01] <mandel> .me walks dog
[12:01] <mandel> ups that was mandel
[12:01] <mandel> :P
[12:05] <rye> karni, have a bug #785093 :)
[12:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 785093 in ubuntuone-android-files "Client displays temporary files with no hash and size (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785093
[12:05] <karni> rye: thanks!
[12:06] <karni> rye: wow, that's a nice report :)
[12:06] <rye> karni, also, awesome work, it is really fast and easy to use
[12:07] <karni> rye: thanks. it's really nice to hear such feedback.
[12:07] <rye> karni, it usually helps to have as much info in the report as possible so that one does not spend an hour trying to understand what did he mean earlier
[12:08] <karni> rye: sure :)!
[12:08] <rye> karni, i had filed such bug reports before i started working on them. Then I understood how bad I was at reporting :)
[12:08] <karni> rye: you've perfected that art :)
[12:09] <rye> karni, thanks :)
[12:46] <nessita> hola!
[12:52] <ralsina> hola nessita
[12:52] <ralsina> ok, paro para comer, vuelvo para el standup
[12:53] <nessita> ralsina: holas, y ack
[12:53] <ralsina> I have the first draft of the installer screens sent to blajk for review
[12:54] <ralsina> it needs a lot of work, but hey, it has the right widgets in roughly the right places ;-)
[12:54] <nessita> jejeje
[13:09] <mandel> ralsina: that is what she said
[13:21] <mandel> ralsina: I have an urgent errant, I'll be back asap
[13:30] <thisfred> me
[13:30] <thisfred> Ha!
[13:30] <thisfred> Oh no, that's in 30 minutes
[13:30] <nessita> thisfred: :-)
[13:48] <beuno> rye, the web ui should show everything
[13:50] <karni> jdobrien: rye: ↑ interesting
[13:51] <rye> beuno, bug #785093 is what i filed against u1-android-files. I guess I will ask facundobatista about that tmp file of no size and hash
[13:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 785093 in ubuntuone-android-files "Client displays temporary files with no hash and size (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785093
[13:52] <karni> rye: you keep the bug numbers handy, don't you :)?
[13:53] <rye> karni, no, i just looked at the scrollback :)
[13:53] <jdobrien> beuno, the web UI does not show files that are not uploaded yet
[13:53] <karni> rye: ah :D
[13:53] <beuno> jdobrien, correct  :)
[13:53] <karni> jdobrien: should REST api serve such files if they are not there yet?
[13:53] <jdobrien> beuno, it's a outdated design of the client we're trying to fix (the file place holders)
[13:53] <rye> ah
[13:54] <karni> jdobrien: oh
[13:54] <jdobrien> karni, as long as we can PUT files with no content, we need to be able to GET them
[13:54] <karni> jdobrien: understood.
[13:55] <facundobatista> rye, sorry, what?
[13:55] <rye> facundobatista, jdobrien has already explained the placeholder files client was creating
[13:55] <rye> jdobrien, erm
[13:55] <facundobatista> ah, reading everything now
[13:56] <rye> jdobrien, but those files were (not) uploaded on february, is there any cleanup procedure?
[13:56] <facundobatista> rye, yes, we create files with no content, then we put content on them...
[13:56] <rye> facundobatista, ah, so tmpsomethingsomething is a real file name
[13:57] <jdobrien> rye, no there isn't
[13:57] <karni> rye: you're the first person to notice those empty files. probably it was hidden by timing. (the moment you refreshed/got the folder content)
[13:57] <rye> karni, no, they are sitting there since february :)
[13:58] <rye> beuno, so that's how web ui used to show 'Uploading' files?
[13:59] <karni> rye: huh o_O
[14:00] <rye> karni, web UI used to show the files that are already MakeFile()d but content not uploaded as "Uploading" which, on interrupted transfers, was sometimes misleading
[14:00] <nessita> me
[14:00] <rye> nessita, have we captured mandel and asked him about stdout/debug logging?
[14:00] <karni> rye: so what's the best solution you'd suggest?
[14:00] <nessita> rye: yeah, it was an error
[14:01] <fagan> me
[14:01] <ralsina> me
[14:01] <dobey> me
[14:01] <karni> nessita: so it shouldn't show those files? (the Web UI)
[14:01] <rye> karni, do not show things that do not have size
[14:01] <rye> karni,  :)
[14:01] <nessita> karni: eh? :-)
[14:01] <karni> rye: (apart from directories) okey
[14:01] <karni> nessita: nvm ;)
[14:01] <rye> karni, concurrent statements, we were talking about mandel's bug
[14:01] <ralsina> thisfred?
[14:02] <karni> oh
[14:02] <nessita> alecu, mandel?
[14:02] <thisfred> me
[14:02] <ralsina> mandel is not around for a little while, it seems
[14:02] <nessita> DONE: Canonical Summit, UDS, proposed and merged a branch to separate linux specific code in the control panel.
[14:02] <nessita> TODO: move the filtered logic from the GTK layer to the control panel backend.
[14:02] <nessita> BLOCKED: nopes
[14:02] <nessita> NEXT: fagan
[14:02] <alecu> hello!
[14:02] <nessita> alecu: say me!
[14:02] <fagan> DONE
[14:02] <fagan> * finshed reading down through the docs of twisted
[14:02] <fagan> TODO
[14:02] <fagan> * do some twisted
[14:02] <fagan> Blocked
[14:02] <fagan> * nope
[14:02] <fagan> ralsina: gogo
[14:02] <alecu> say you... say me!
[14:03] <ralsina> DONE: initial wireframes implementation for the installer wizard
[14:03] <ralsina> also, pinged bunch of people, read resumes for windows guy
[14:04] <ralsina> TODO: correct naming in said wireframes, start figuring out hooks for them, talk to alecu and nessita
[14:04] <ralsina> BLOCKED: only in that I seem to have become an ex-coder when I was not looking
[14:04] <ralsina> dobey please?
[14:04] <dobey> λ DONE: fixed some 11.10 nightlies, #784744
[14:04] <dobey> λ TODO: more 11.10 nightlies fixes
[14:04] <dobey> λ BLCK: Still recovering from cold.
[14:04] <dobey> alecu
[14:05] <alecu> DONE: got qt working with twisted on the control panel
[14:05] <alecu> TODO: finish reading the 5 pyqt tutorials by ralsina, learn more about layouts
[14:05] <alecu> BLOCKED: spent last hour and a half in a parents meeting at kinder. Head dizzy now.
[14:05] <thisfred> DONE: UDS + quick tour of the old country | TODO: Oneiric ;) (read up on mail and process UDS sessions I suppose, for now) | BLOCKED: no
[14:05] <ralsina> alecu: I bet there must be a better resource out there to learn Qt :-)
[14:06] <ralsina> alecu, nessita, can we have a quick chat somewhere private? I can't mumble
[14:06] <thisfred> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1377081
[14:06] <fagan> alecu: well I think I can answer a good lot of questions if you have any
[14:06] <nessita> ralsina: I can't either, mumble will not work on my laptop and my PC is still in a box
[14:07] <nessita> ralsina: shall we skype?
[14:07] <nessita> alecu: ^
[14:07] <ralsina> I am in a really noisy place
[14:07] <ralsina> maybe just a private channel
[14:07] <alecu> nessita, ralsina: chat is fine
[14:07] <ralsina> let's go to #meeting2011 in canonical's
[14:08] <thisfred> LIKED: the ctrl+alt+keypad keybindings in compiz/natty. (Finally moved my desktop over yesterday)
[14:08] <ralsina> BTW: for those who had not had a one-on-one with me re: bonuses+raises, we will have it next week
[14:09] <rye> karni, one more, u1-a-f shows "User name" as Roman. Where does it get its info?
[14:09] <karni> rye: :D REST API, UserInfo. username
[14:09] <karni> rye: for me it's my full name and surname
[14:10] <rye> karni, well, it is the same here, or even from /api/account - 'first_name': '', 'last_name': 'Roman Yepishev', but the app shows only Roman part
[14:11] <karni> rye: o_O can you test that with the /api/file_storage/ API ?
[14:11] <rye> i behave like i can't do bzr pull and grep. gosh!
[14:11] <karni> rye: I'm not using the /api/account
[14:11] <karni> rye: I was, previoulsy. I may, but not ATM. Pure file_storage API
[14:11] <rye> karni, that would explain it, bug #614431
[14:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 614431 in ubuntuone-servers "lib.ubuntuone.storage uses its own copy of first_name + last_name / visible_name (affects: 4) (heat: 3)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614431
[14:12] <karni> rye: :/
[14:12] <karni> rye: I might go with /api/account then..
[14:14] <karni> rye: I now have learned to avoid ad-hoc implementation (just to get the feature there), so I'd like to implement that in a clean way, and we already have quite a list of TODOs before release :<
[14:15] <rye> karni, no, that's ok. It is consistent to the server view. I did not know file api also have the user info exposed
[14:18] <jdobrien> karni, we could add a filter so we can prevent the size=None files from being returned
[14:19] <karni> jdobrien: that would be cool. would it filter out an empty file as well? (say, an empty .txt file)
[14:19] <jdobrien> karni, no
[14:19] <jdobrien> karni, we shouldn't do that since empty files are legitimate
[14:20] <karni> jdobrien: yes, I agree.  Will try to be back in one hour or so.
[15:36] <dobey> haha
[15:37] <fagan> good luck ralsina
[15:38] <fagan> mandel: that sentence wasnt really understandable when google translate gets at it
[15:39] <fagan> :)
[15:39] <nessita> alecu: I'm  moving all the "stringify" logic from backend.py to dbus_service.py (FYI), to ease the use of the info from QT
[15:40] <mandel> it is close, is 'I shit on the shit week that god has given me :D
[15:40] <fagan> hah yeah but it was a little bit fuddled
[15:43] <alecu> nessita, ack
[15:43] <alecu> ralsina, ping
[15:44] <fagan> alecu: he just said he is moving venue so he may be gone for a little while
[15:44] <nessita> alecu: he just said he needed to change venues
[15:44] <alecu> ralsina, what's the best way to have the .ui turned into .py? a Makefile? or a .sh that generates .py and have those pre-generated .py's included in the repo...
[15:44] <alecu> oh, ok.
[15:44] <fagan> alecu: I can answer that
[15:44] <alecu> fagan, answer, please!
[15:45] <alecu> (oh, and we can peek at the qt sso-client as well)
[15:45] <fagan> alecu: to convert a .ui file to a .py file you use pyuic4 so you can do a .sh
[15:46] <alecu> fagan, I know about that. But should I store the generated .pys in the bzr repo?
[15:47] <fagan> alecu: well ralsina said to me not to do that but ship a setup.sh or setup.py that does the pyuic4
[15:47] <alecu> fagan, I see. sso-client has a setup.py that does that.
[15:48] <alecu> I'll use it in the u1cp. Thanks!
[15:48] <fagan> alecu: cool
[15:50] <dobey> sigh
[15:50] <dobey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610114/
[15:50] <dobey> :(
[15:51] <dobey> oh now it works again
[15:53] <joshuahoover> nessita: ping
[15:58] <nessita> joshuahoover: pong
[15:58] <joshuahoover> nessita: i'm running nightlies and the control panel gives me this error from the terminal when i try to start it: ImportError: cannot import name login_client  ...(i have 1.7+r988-35~natty1 installed)
[15:58] <dobey> i wonder if i got silver medallion on delta now
[15:59] <nessita> joshuahoover: ah, uh. I need to fix packaging bits. Thanks for pointing thta out!
[15:59] <joshuahoover> nessita: ok, good, it's not just me then ;)
[16:00] <nessita> joshuahoover: no no :-)
[16:00] <dobey> alecu: eww
[16:01] <alecu> dobey, I don't get the "eww"
[16:01] <dobey> alecu: generated python from .ui files?
[16:02] <fagan> dobey: thats how pyqt works dude :D
[16:03] <nessita> joshuahoover: can you please file a bug for me?
[16:03] <joshuahoover> nessita: yep
[16:05] <dobey> that's how we're using it yes, but it is eww
[16:07] <joshuahoover> nessita: bug #785229
[16:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 785229 in ubuntuone-control-panel "Nightlies: ImportError: cannot import name login_client (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785229
[16:07] <nessita> joshuahoover: thanks!
[16:07] <dobey> and seems to me like we don't have to use it that way
[16:09] <alecu> dobey, I don't like that either. I much prefer the libglade way of loading the .ui at runtime, but every pyqt tutorial seems to point into the pyuic direction.
[16:11] <fagan> well I dont know it seems a little bit cleaner to just have .py files to deal with to me
[16:12] <dobey> alecu: where's the uic module, and loadUIType method in it, which seems like what we want
[16:12] <fagan> but I dont really mind either way really I used glade and liked that way too
[16:12] <dobey> well, glade/gtk+ at least has a usable API for using resource files in that way
[16:13] <dobey> seems the qt API is not so niced
[16:13] <dobey> nice
[16:14] <fagan> dobey: yeah well pyqt has that resource thing that generates a .py file
[16:14] <fagan> dobey: oh and pyuic is in pyqt-dev-tools
[16:15] <nessita> alecu, dobey: could you please review? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/packaging/+merge/61591 (packaging-dailies branch is coming next)
[16:16] <nessita> ralsina, all: are we having the roadmap call?
[16:17]  * fagan isnt needed on that
[16:18] <dobey> fagan: generated code is crap.
[16:18] <dobey> it is basically worthless
[16:18] <dobey> nessita: i hope not. and i guess not since ralsina is in transit?
[16:18] <fagan> dobey: yeah
[16:19] <nessita> dobey: I guess so
[16:22] <fagan> dobey: well the generated code for the pyqt stuff is just declaring the items on the page and adding a bit of stuff to allow for translations its not exactly difficult code its generating
[16:22] <fagan> dobey: so its not exactly bad its just it probably could be done in the same way glade does it which takes out that step entirely
[16:22] <fagan> so yeah your right eww
[16:22] <dobey> fagan: that's irrelevant. the generated code can't be modified, and it has to be regenerated whenever the .ui file changes
[16:23] <dobey> and right if it's just for translations, it's even worse
[16:23] <alecu> nessita, approved.
[16:24] <dobey> nessita: i'm not sure if i should approve, or needsfixing and say "use find_packages()"
[16:24] <dobey> i am inclined toward the latter though
[16:24] <fagan> dobey: actually it can be modified but it just wont be kept around after you do a new pyuic on the .ui file.
[16:24] <nessita> dobey: what find_packages? :-)
[16:24] <alecu> dobey, fagan: sso qt generates the .py's from the .ui's in setup.py. Perhaps mandel knows about it?
[16:25] <alecu> mandel, do you know why are we doing that instead of loading the .ui's at runtime, like we do on gtk?
[16:26] <dobey> probably because all the examples/pointers on the net point at using pyuic4
[16:26] <dobey> fagan: don't try to be pedantic. it means you can't modify it.
[16:26] <mandel> alecu: translations
[16:27] <fagan> ooooh now I remember why we are doing it that way
[16:27]  * fagan completely forgot about the translations thing
[16:27] <dobey> nessita: setuptools.find_packages
[16:28] <nessita> dobey: but we're not using setuptools, but distutils
[16:29] <dobey> nessita: actually you're using DistUtilsExtra; but it does not mean you can't use setuptools.find_packages
[16:29] <nessita> dobey: form my POV, it is too much of a mix. If you insist, I can add this to the setup.py: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distutils/Cookbook/AutoPackageDiscovery
[16:30] <nessita> dobey: but I'm not comfortable with using setuptools and distutilsextra and distutils
[16:30] <dobey> why not?
[16:30] <nessita> is too much mix
[16:30] <dobey> i don't think so
[16:31] <nessita> I do (which leads to nothing) :-)
[16:32] <nessita> dobey: besides, adding te packages by hand makes us remember we need to tweak the packaging branches
[16:32] <nessita> dobey: which is good, otherwise, we (packagers) may not notice there is a new package to be added in the .install files
[16:32] <nessita> dobey: and given that we have < 5 packages, I think this time practicality beats purity
[16:33] <dobey> i don't think it helps us remember, since people always forget to update the setup.py anyway :)
[16:34] <nessita> dobey: right, but the bug arises very early
[16:34] <dobey> to me, that says there is a problem; setuptools.find_packages is the right solution for that, and i think we should be applying it *shrug*
[16:34] <dobey> nessita: this bug would have occurred at the same time, regardless; it wasn't caught until a new nightlies package was up
[16:35] <dobey> but since everyone always forgets to update setup.py, it means there are more pieces of work to fix it, because we have to update the setup.py, and the packaging, both
[16:36] <nessita> dobey: ok, let's settle on the recipe, yes?
[16:36] <dobey> with find_packages, we would always only have to fix the packaging as a result of any of these
[16:38] <nessita> dobey: ok, let's settle on the recipe, yes?
[16:39] <dobey> i'm not sure what that question means exactly? what would you like to reach quorum on?
[16:39] <dobey> whether or not to use find_packages()?
[16:39] <nessita> dobey: I agree on not explicitly listing all the packages by hand, and you agree to using the recipe instead of fInd_packages
[16:40] <nessita> dobey: I already answered that
[16:40] <dobey> recipe? you mean "copy a find_packages() method into every setup.py we ship" ?
[16:41] <nessita> dobey: last.append("and do not depend on setuptools")
[16:41] <nessita> yes.
[16:43] <dobey> i think that is a horrible idea. what we need already exists, is already distributed in ubuntu, is in main, is on the cd, and is readily available for us to use. shipping a copy in every setup.py, that is inferior, seems like a complete waste to me
[16:43] <nessita> dobey: then let's list the packages explicitly
[16:45] <dobey> well, i need to get lunch
[16:45] <nessita> dobey: ok, enjoy your lunch, but first let's move on with this packaging branch
[16:46] <dobey> i will abstain
[16:46] <nessita> dobey: ok, thanks
[16:46] <dobey> bbiab
[16:51]  * fagan loves covert operations :)
[17:03] <fagan> EOD finishing off twisted tomorrow :)
[17:03]  * fagan has some brink to play
[17:51] <dobey> thisfred: btw, i saw the other day, someone who was claiming how quod libet should be the default because it's the greatest thing ever, and it wasn't you. i was agasp
[17:51] <thisfred> :)
[17:51] <thisfred> Maybe it was one of my sock puppets
[17:52] <dobey> likely
[18:04] <dobey> nessita: text conflict in changelog
[18:23] <nessita> dobey: looking
[18:26] <nessita> dobey: right, I used an outdated branch as parent, fixing it now
[18:26]  * nessita should not do 3 things at the same time
[18:49] <dobey> can i have some reviews for this please? https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-client/fix-deprecations/+merge/61626
[18:57] <nessita> dobey: approved
[18:57] <dobey> thanks
[18:58] <dobey> alecu, thisfred: second review? :)
[18:58] <thisfred> dobey: +1
[19:01] <dobey> cheers
[19:25] <rye> dobey, is there any ppa of natty ubuntuone-client for maverick that is not nightlies?
[19:28] <dobey> no
[19:29] <DanRabbit> Hey U1, thoughts, fears, comments, concerns: http://imagebin.org/154084 ?
[19:30]  * rye read fears and thought that this is a screenshot of an error page
[19:32] <nessita> DanRabbit: too orange
[19:33] <nessita> DanRabbit: what about a grey background?
[19:34] <DanRabbit> nessita: I'll try it :)
[19:36] <nessita> dobey: conflicts resolved, would you please re-review?
[19:38] <DanRabbit> nessita: here it is with a gray from the Ubuntu palette: http://imagebin.org/154087
[19:40] <nessita> DanRabbit: I like it better, but I would advise getting another review
[19:40] <dobey> ok
[19:40] <nessita> DanRabbit: beuno-lunch's probably
[19:41] <beuno> DanRabbit, I replied to the email
[19:41] <beuno> :)
[19:41] <dobey> do we need a "splash screen" there?
[19:41] <rye> DanRabbit, is this for Android Files? I don't know whether an Android application should show "for Android"... since if it has already started then it must have been successful
[19:42] <karni> hey guys, I'm back.
[19:42]  * karni reads
[19:43] <karni> fagan: thanks for comments
[19:44] <karni> DanRabbit: nice splash!
[19:45] <rye> The gray one is awesome
[19:45] <karni> DanRabbit: rye: So. On one hand, I've seen people doing the same thing few times (writing "foo bar product FOR XXX" when it was actually running on XXX anyway). On the other, that's right - we're running no Android, so I'm not sure if it's necessary there
[19:45] <karni> I guess I have something in my inbox now..
[19:46] <DanRabbit> karni, rye, beuno: someone suggested some clouds? http://imagebin.org/154090
[19:46] <DanRabbit> okay, should I remove the "for Android" text?
[19:47] <dobey> DanRabbit: i think so
[19:47] <karni> DanRabbit: w00t this is beautiful!
[19:47] <dobey> and ugh, clouds :)
[19:47] <dobey> (also ugh, splash screens ftl)
[19:47] <karni> DanRabbit: as for "for Android", i would ask ivanka
[19:47] <beuno> DanRabbit, that's nice to, I think at this stage it comes down to branding consistency
[19:48] <DanRabbit> okay, so ask Ivanka on "for Android" and do we like clouds or dislike clouds?
[19:48]  * rye wants a wallpaper with this now
[19:49] <DanRabbit> rye: haha that's a good idea I might do that.
[19:49] <beuno> DanRabbit, I like them, I guess it depends on what the rest of the branding will look like
[19:50] <karni> beuno: didn't want to interrupt on #w&m - yes I know. I'll have a saner schedule once I'm sure people will rate us 4-5 stars instead of 3 because there's some glitches or something missing.
[19:50] <karni> DanRabbit: as far as I cam concerned, I am definitely *for* the clouds. I'm only a programmer, but I had similar splash screen in mind for months. I love it!
[19:51] <karni> /s/cam/am
[19:52] <dobey> karni: what i'm wondering is why we think we need splash screens :)
[19:52] <karni> dobey: because on HTC Desire HD app launches in like one second, and on HTC Hero it launches in 3-4? (still faster than Db)
[19:53] <karni> dobey: so you don't look at a white/black screen. this is justified, this is not "because we like it". we *need* it.
[19:54] <dobey> is it because basic app startup is actually that much slower there, or is it because we're doing a bunch of other stuff at startup?
[19:54] <karni> dobey: we're not doing much at startup. the former.
[19:54] <rye> karni, on my machine it takes 1 second
[19:54] <rye> phone, not machine
[19:54] <rye> well
[19:54] <karni> dobey: there are components that need to be initialized, by the system as well
[19:54] <rye> device
[19:55] <karni> rye: that even makes me happier. however, we do need a splash. especially that it's so fancy now lol!
[19:55] <dobey> :-/
[19:56] <karni> dobey: oh come on, that was a joke. if you didn't have a snapdragon phone, you would understand. you don't agree with me?
[19:56] <rye> karni, otoh it will be a splash screen really, which will be shown for 1 second or less (if app is simply suspended)
[19:56] <karni> rye: would you like me to programmatically decide if we should show the splash screen based on CPU speed?
[19:56] <rye> karni, hmmmmmm
[19:57] <karni> rye: the best part is that it's not a splash actually. it's a background of the activity that is being loaded.
[19:57] <karni> rye: that's a trick used by developers to avoid "slow'ish empty startup" of the application
[19:57] <dobey> karni: i don't have an android phone. i just hate splash screens
[19:57] <rye> karni, wow, so basically showing it does not cost anything more than reading the png file
[19:57] <karni> rye: exactly. I'm not making anything particular to >show the splash please!< :)
[19:58] <karni> it's just a background.
[19:58] <karni> dobey: I see. Well, that one is not something that you see on computers for few seconds before your real software launches (or launches in the background)
[19:58] <rye> karni, but during latest runs android-u1 displayed the splash for half a second, which is (if it contains some words) is hard to read
[19:58] <karni> dobey: that's actually starting to display the activity.
[19:59] <karni> rye: then I agree we should only leave "UBuntu One" and nothing else
[19:59] <rye> karni, dobey there was a quote on bash.org.ru, "You know that your computer is slow if you know all the names of Photoshop developers"
[19:59] <karni> rye: I could, however, make it *display* the splash screen for 2 seconds, but that would indeed make dobey mad (justified :) )
[20:00] <karni> let's stick what we have now, the splash is the least of my concerns
[20:00] <rye> karni, but we created a 20 minute discussion out of it :)
[20:00] <karni> rye: I can bring up better topics if you'd like :)
[20:01] <karni> rye: On that note, I should be coding now :)
[20:05] <karni> rye: Anyway, I still do consider this valuable input, please don't get me wrong. This is just aesthetics, and we can always tweak/change that. We're still just missing imporatnt pieces of the puzzle, althought it generally looks fine.
[20:06] <nessita> can I haz another review for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/packaging-dailies/+merge/61599 ?
[20:06] <nessita> joshuahoover: maybe you? ^
[20:06]  * joshuahoover looks
[20:06] <nessita> (it fixes the control panel nightlies)
[20:07] <dobey> you don't need another review for it
[20:07] <rye> karni, i absolutely agree with you
[20:07] <karni> rye: :)
[20:08] <nessita> dobey: I don't? you mean because I should push it myself?
[20:08] <joshuahoover> nessita: you heard dobey...do it now before he changes his mind! ;)
[20:08] <nessita> alecu, anyone else: https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/move-logic-to-backend/+merge/61642
[20:08] <nessita> joshuahoover: :-D
[20:10] <dobey> nessita: tarmac is not managing those branches
[20:10] <dobey> although, perhaps i should set it up to do so
[20:10] <nessita> dobey: ack, pushing now
[20:11] <nessita> dobey: it would be nice, though not highly needed
[20:12] <dobey> nessita: well i've fixed up the nightlies to include the packaging revno in the version now, so we could also request rebuilds automatically for changes in the packaging as well
[20:12] <nessita> nice
[20:16] <dobey> can have a couple quick and easy reviews for https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-client/gtk-hates-me/+merge/61645 ?
[20:19] <rye> mmm
[20:20] <rye> mandel, have you "ponged" me?
[20:21] <mandel> rye: yes, because you oinged me wayse ago
[20:22] <rye> so, why http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntuone-client/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon#L74 ?
[20:22] <rye> mandel, ^
[20:22] <mandel> rye: because I stupdly commented some lines and forgot to undo the change
[20:23] <mandel> no smart reason what so ever
[20:23] <mandel> none, null, nil
[20:23] <mandel> nada
[20:25] <rye> mandel, is there a branch to undo this?
[20:25] <mandel> rye: what do you mean?
[20:25] <mandel> if there is a branch that fixes that? I think nessita did look at it
[20:26] <nessita> mandel: nopes, I didn't
[20:26] <nessita> mandel: I just saw the problem and let you and ralsina know
[20:27] <mandel> ah… ok I can do one later, is kinda late here 10 pm
[20:27] <mandel> I mean, I need to have dinner etc
[20:28] <dobey> anyone? https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-client/gtk-hates-me/+merge/61645
[20:29] <nessita> dobey: looking
[20:29] <nessita> dobey: GTK_DIALOG_NO_SEPARATOR no loger exists?
[20:29] <nessita> longer*
[20:29] <dobey> nope
[20:30] <dobey> gtk3 doesn't have it
[20:31] <nessita> dobey: ack. ANy idea why: ubuntuone-control-panel_1.1.0+r144-20~natty1.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 1.1.0+r144-20~natty1 <= 1.1.0+r144-23~natty1
[20:31] <nessita> dobey: after requesting a build
[20:31] <nessita> dobey: I'm getting "State: Failed to upload "
[20:31] <dobey> huh
[20:32] <dobey> because you broke trunk
[20:32] <nessita> dobey: can you please be more specific instead of being just accusing? :-)
[20:32] <dobey> of packaging-dailies
[20:32] <dobey> i'm not accusing
[20:33] <nessita> dobey: I still don't understand what I broke
[20:33] <dobey> you created a branch from an older version, and then merged trunk into; so it had fewer commits than the trunk originally had, so when you pushed it, some revisions were lost
[20:33] <dobey> packaging-dailies now has fewer revisions than it did before
[20:34] <nessita> dobey: but I merged trunk in...
[20:34] <nessita> I mean, I did run bzr merge ...
[20:34] <nessita> how will that loose revnos?
[20:34] <dobey> nessita: you did not merge your branch into packaging-dailies
[20:34] <dobey> you pushed it there
[20:34] <nessita> dobey: I first merged packaging-dailies in, then I pushed
[20:35] <dobey> nessita: you did it backwards
[20:35] <nessita> dobey: no I didn't, I first merged then I pushed
[20:35] <nessita> or I'm not understanding what you're saying
[20:36] <dobey> you did not merge *into* packaging-dailies
[20:36] <dobey> you merged *from* it, and then pushed your branch *onto* it
[20:38] <nessita> dobey: I still don't see the difference from what I did, but maybe the language is playing tricks here. Speaking bzr, I use a branch from packaging-dailies, made the changes, push to a location of mine, you mentioned the conflicts, I branched original packaging-dailies into a packaging-dailies-trunk branch, then, in my branch I ran bzr merge ../packaging-dailies-trunk, resolved conflicts, bzr ci, bzr push. You reviewed
[20:38] <nessita> then, bzr push lp:~u1-control-tower/u1cp/packaging-dailies
[20:39] <dobey> yes
[20:39] <nessita> dobey: at what point you say I did it wrong?
[20:39] <dobey> that last push
[20:39] <nessita> dobey: what should I have done instead?
[20:40] <dobey> in your packaging-dailies-trunk branch, bzr merge ../approved-branch; bzr commit (with right commit message/author if not you), and push that to lp
[20:41] <nessita> dobey: right, I see my mistake now
[20:41] <dobey> your branch had fewer toplevel revisions
[20:41] <dobey> so the revno went down when you pushed it on top
[20:41] <nessita> right, I now get it, thanks for explaining
[20:42] <dobey> sure
[20:42] <nessita> dobey: this is why we need tarmac :-D
[20:45] <nessita> done, pushed to revno 24, which seems appropriate
[20:45] <dobey> ok, thanks
[20:47] <dobey> alecu, thisfred, rye, karni: anyone care to give second review of https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-client/gtk-hates-me/+merge/61645 ? is very simple
[20:47] <thisfred> got it
[20:47] <karni> I'll let thisfred review :)
[20:49] <dobey> thanks
[20:51] <duanedesign> anyone  wish to help me decipher a forum post abobut U1? I am just not quite understanding his question.
[20:51] <duanedesign> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1762458
[20:52] <thisfred> duanedesign: wow, not a clue what that means. If there was a link in there I would be sure it was botspam ;)
[20:53] <beuno> duanedesign, I know what he means
[20:53] <duanedesign> thisfred: good idea!
[20:53] <beuno> he wants to sync his contacts using a usb cable
[20:53] <beuno> no
[20:53] <dobey> no
[20:53] <dobey> he wants to use his phone as a modem
[20:53] <beuno> what he wants is to tether through his phone
[20:53] <beuno> using ubuntu
[20:53] <beuno> right
[20:53] <dobey> and was using nokia's app to do it
[20:53] <beuno> nothing yo do with u1
[20:53] <dobey> which doesn't exist for leenux
[20:53] <duanedesign> aha
[20:54] <dobey> and no idea if it works in NM or not
[20:54] <beuno> it did for my E71
[20:55] <duanedesign> ok so just a reaffirmation the client does not exist for linux. And no work arounds exist?
[20:56] <beuno> duanedesign, yeah, network manager may support it if he sets his phone to pc suite
[20:57] <duanedesign> thannk you very much!
[20:59] <alecu> hi all, can I ask for two reviews of this? https://code.launchpad.net/~alecu/ubuntuone-control-panel/tx-qt-mainloop/+merge/61652
[20:59] <alecu> nessita, thisfred, dobey: ^
[20:59] <nessita> alecu: looking
[20:59] <thisfred> on it
[20:59] <dobey> you can *ask*
[21:00] <dobey> ugh
[21:00] <nessita> alecu: typo caused by copy and paste: Invalid name "ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk", pylint: disable=C0103 (on u1cp-qt)
[21:00] <alecu> doh
[21:00] <dobey> contrib dir FTL
[21:00] <alecu> nessita, since I did no tests, I forgot to run them.
[21:02] <alecu> dobey, contrib sounds fine for me. I'll let *you* package the qt reactor for windows.
[21:02] <dobey> well i don't have to package it for windows
[21:02] <dobey> it's already done
[21:02] <nessita> alecu: I'll propose a branch to move all the gtk .ui files to a gtk dir
[21:02] <nessita> alecu: after your review
[21:03] <alecu> nessita, I think there's no need for that yet. add a bug, do that branch after the london sprint.
[21:03] <alecu> pylint loves the qt generated .py files
[21:04] <nessita> alecu: I need to check the packaging bits, but I think there is the need, since we don't want to package the qt ui files in ubuntu
[21:04] <nessita> at least not yet
[21:04] <dobey> alecu: sso doesn't have contrib/ dir, so why should we?
[21:04] <nessita> dobey: sso does not use a twisted reactor, I guess that is the reason
[21:05] <dobey> and ubuntuone-client does not have qtreactor included in it
[21:05] <nessita> alecu: also, you should not change copyright from 2010 to 2011 but add the new year. What I mean is, you should end up with something like: +# Copyright 2010-2011 Canonical Ltd.
[21:05] <thisfred> alecu: what do I need to install to prevent: ImportError: No module named qt
[21:06] <nessita> dobey: because it does not need it... but I'll let alecu give you specifics
[21:06] <thisfred> it's not python-qt, apparentlt :)
[21:06] <dobey> nessita: then what did mandel spend all that time making u1trial work with qt reactor for?
[21:07] <dobey> also devtools does not include qtreactor
[21:07] <nessita> dobey: ah, you killed me on that one
[21:07] <nessita> alecu: ^?
[21:07] <alecu> thisfred, python-qt4 and python-qt4-dbus (perhaps others)
[21:07] <thisfred> thx
[21:07] <nessita> alecu: another copy and paste! 879+            py_file = os.path.join('ubuntu_sso', 'controlpanel', 'qt', 'ui',880+                                   py_file) :-) I'll add those to the merge proposal instead of keeping listing them here
[21:08] <alecu> nessita, thanks.
[21:09] <nessita> alecu: so, any idea about what dobey says? that mandel already did something related to twisted and qt?
[21:09] <nessita> and reactors
[21:10] <alecu> no idea
[21:14] <nessita> dobey: can you please be more specific about the qt reactor thing? so alecu and I can understand and see if we are doing it wrong
[21:15] <dobey> i don't think we should put it in contrib/ and i don't think we should be doing "from contrib import foo" in code we expect users to install/run
[21:15] <thisfred> could use a second +1 on https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntuone-couch/extra-headers/+merge/61648
[21:16] <dobey> well
[21:17] <dobey> is he in ~ubuntuone-hackers?
[21:17] <thisfred> dobey: who michael? I'll look
[21:18] <dobey> yeah
[21:18] <thisfred> dobey: afaict no
[21:18] <dobey> ok
[21:18] <alecu> dobey, I agree on the "from contrib import foo" being wrong. I still don't see where to put it or package it for the windows version.
[21:19] <dobey> alecu: don't put it anywhere
[21:19] <dobey> alecu: it's already packaged somewhere for windows
[21:20] <alecu> dobey, I need to put it somewhere, because it's not packaged.
[21:20] <dobey> alecu: then please tell me how it's being used if it's not packaged
[21:21] <thisfred> alecu: is this the same as nessita reported? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610253/
[21:21] <alecu> dobey, there's no windows release of the qt sso that mandel did.
[21:21] <nessita> thisfred: I haven't run anything yet
[21:22] <thisfred> ah ok
[21:22] <dobey> alecu: no, but they have been running the tests on windows
[21:22] <dobey> alecu: and doing that requires qtreactor
[21:23] <alecu> dobey, right, they have been running those tests in a specially crafted environ. Nobody but mandel has it. (perhaps ralsina)
[21:23] <dobey> alecu: so i don't know where it is exactly, but it is somewhere, and we should not be putting it in our contrib
[21:23] <dobey> alecu: well, ralsina, mandel, and fagan should all have it at least
[21:23] <nessita> alecu: added a bunch of needs fixing after looking only the diff. Once those are resolved, I'll re-review and run
[21:24] <alecu> dobey, look here: https://github.com/ghtdak/qtreactor
[21:24] <dobey> yes i knwo where upstream is
[21:24] <alecu> dobey, there's no setup.py, and it's not packaged
[21:25] <alecu> nessita, thanks.
[21:25] <dobey> ok so it's not packaged. but that doesn't change anything
[21:26] <nessita> alecu, dobey: let's talk about this tomorrow with ralsina and mandel, and come up with a proper solution.
[21:26] <nessita> in the mean time we can review the rest of the branch and test it IRL
[21:27] <dobey> if we need it packaged, we should build a package in our PPA and propose it for inclusion in ubuntu, and we should avoid putting code we do not own, in our source trees, unless it's absolutely necessary
[21:28] <alecu> nessita, dobey: ok.
[21:28] <alecu> right now I need to run to pick up amelia from kinder. See you guys in a few hours.
[21:29] <nessita> dobey: any idea why oneiric dailies build are failing with: Unable to open directory /usr/lib/gio/modules: Error opening directory '/usr/lib/gio/modules': No such file or directory
[21:29] <nessita> control panel's dailies
[21:30] <dobey> no
[21:30] <nessita> and maverick's build is failing due to tests failures :-/
[21:30] <nessita>   File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0/gi/types.py", line 143, in __init__     set_object_has_new_constructor(cls.__info__.get_g_type()) exceptions.TypeError: must be a subtype of GObject
[21:30] <dobey> yes i know
[21:30] <nessita> dobey: can we fix somehow?
[21:31] <dobey> i don't understnd your question about the gio thing
[21:32] <dobey> cp on O is failing because there are a million pylint errors
[21:35] <nessita> dobey: hum, I opened the log file and there was the gio error
[21:35] <nessita> dobey: I didn't scroll up, so I guess the GIO error is not important?
[21:37] <dobey> nessita: that is a warning from the removal of a package when cleaning up the chroot
[21:42] <nessita> dobey: ah, ok
[22:02] <dobey> if it ain't one thing, it's another
[22:03] <dobey> oh well, time to call it a day
[22:03] <dobey> have a good evening all
[22:08] <nessita> ok, I'm calling it a day too
[22:08] <nessita> bye all!
[22:14] <facundobatista_> nessita, chaucha
[22:14] <nessita> chau facundobatista_


[03:40] <ali1234> reading bitcoin forum... see my name... remember i sent in a bugfix
[04:17] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe it's your (evil) twin
[06:08] <AlanBell> morning all
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:59] <popey> morning
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:07]  * MartijnVdS upgrades his precise boxes
[09:08]  * brobostigon crosses his fingers for MartijnVdS
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I don't expect it to go wrong :)
[09:08] <brobostigon> :)
[09:09] <brobostigon> i am just doing exactly the same thing.
[09:12] <brobostigon> i always fear, grub updates abit, but it should go fine.
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> grub updates and new kernels are the scariest, agreed :)
[09:13] <brobostigon> :)
[09:23] <swattor> i just upgraded - all went very successfully :-)
[09:36] <mattt> feels like a great day to be doing this kinda stuff
[09:36] <mattt> cept i'm cleaning the house :(
[09:42] <BigRedS> yeah, grub updates are how you end up with grub 2
[09:45] <popey> swattor: now to start testing! ☺  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgL957zo5QM&feature=g-all-u&context=G25aeb2cFAAAAAAAAWAA
[10:07] <ali1234> popey: are we supposed to test normal 12.04 or the unity ppa?
[10:13] <popey> unity ppa please
[10:13] <popey> using checkbox from that ppa
[10:13] <popey> video explains it all I hope
[10:13] <popey> would help an awful lot
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> ooh the white pixel is gone
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> in the second launcher(?) icon
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> had it on all my machines before
[10:17] <ali1234> last time i tested unity from the ppa it all worked perfectly
[10:17] <ali1234> but the version in main is still broken :/
[10:18] <ali1234> notably the skype notification icon always works with the ppa, never works with main
[10:18] <ali1234> and there's a test specifically for that
[10:19] <popey> i have found a few bugs running the ppa and testing it
[10:19] <ali1234> regarding searching for bugs
[10:19] <ali1234> i have noticed that trying to report a bug often finds dupes
[10:20] <ali1234> but when i search using launchpad search i can never find them
[10:20] <ali1234> what's the deal with that?
[10:20] <popey> yeah, i just file them and let launchpad find the dupes during the filing process
[10:20] <popey> you're right, its a lot quicker / more efficient
[10:46] <Laney> i never use launchpad search, just google
[10:47] <ali1234> hmm 400mb of updates on the netbook. might be quicker to reinstall
[10:48] <ali1234> after refreshing apt, 500mb :/
[10:48] <ali1234> and then update manager crashed
[11:06] <popey> yeah, good point Laney
[12:41] <Laney> argh
[12:41] <Laney> worst time to realise your passport is missing: 2 hours before going away for a week, 4 weeks before going abroad
[12:42] <popey> mine is on my desk, where I left it when I got back from the last trip ☺
[12:43] <penguin42> Laney: I guess it's better than finding it out 2 hours before going abroad
[12:43] <Laney> at least then I'd give up hope :P
[12:45] <Laney> you can get a new one in a week, so it's not the end of the world
[12:45] <OmNomDePlume> Does anybody else hate those stupid Ladbrokes adverts?
[12:46] <OmNomDePlume> Yeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssss!!! *stabs*
[12:46] <Laney> no, I love them
[12:47] <OmNomDePlume> I hate you.
[12:50] <popey> Adverts? People still watch those?
[13:10] <directhex> Laney, check your suit jacket pocket.
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: people still SEE those, you mean? :)
[13:40] <diplo> afternoon all, remake of google glasses thing with ads :/
[13:40] <diplo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_mRF0rBXIeg
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> diplo: have you seen the "If Microsoft made Google Glasses" one?
[13:41] <diplo> Nope, good ?
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwModZmOzDs
[13:43] <diplo> heh like it
[13:51] <mumper_> Hi - I've newly installed Oneiric Ocelot and the only issue I've so far had with it its failure to keep my wireless connection if I re-boot. It doesn't heavily bother me as long as I know can re-connect - but? Comment?
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> mumper_: it should automatically re-connect on login after restarting
[13:58] <mumper_> Hi MartijnVds - I agree. Yet it doesn't. I've probably missed some thing, but I installed 11.10 (at Ubuntu's suggestion) whilst running an earlier version which ran very well.
[13:59] <mumper_> MartijnVds: It IS just a nuisance, that's all.
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> is your network "hidden" maybe?
[14:01] <mumper_> MartijnVds: sorry, I could have said - I run a single HP desktop tower wirelessly connected to a v2 BT HomeHub. Is that clear enough?
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> Sure, but is the network name hidden? Some people do that for "security"
[14:05] <mumper_> MartijnVds: ah well. I've named the PC and I have Kodak EPS C310 al-in-one printer connected in the wireless set-up which is identified by code in the HomeHub's "wireless" list.
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> mumper_: Is the wireless network listed in the drop-down on the PC, or did you have to type the name yourself?
[14:06] <mumper_> MartijnVds: from what you say, I'm getting a hint that I possibly need to go over the settings in the network manager, etc?
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> mumper_: Very likely, yes. But I've never seen wifi not connecting on startup
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> But I don't have a "hidden ssid" network
[14:08] <mumper_> MartijnVds: OK - I shall try such an investigation - I thank you very very much for your informed kindness, bye for now ...
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> good luck
[14:13] <OmNomDeBonBon> MartijnVdS, are you watching the match?
[14:13] <OmNomDeBonBon> Villa just scored a great goal.
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> Match?
[14:30] <OmNomDeBonBon> Liverpool vs Aston Villa.
[14:47] <oimon1> hi guys, i have a digital video camera with some clips on that i'd like to keep in a decent format on my macine, and also upload to private youtube to share with some family members, any suggestions? the dv camera is firewire - do i need to deinterlace while importing, or later on?
[14:56] <gord> oimon1, if its digital, it shouldn't be interlaced at all
[14:57] <oimon1> hmm gord, i must have tried this a while ago so i have some files on the machine alreayd, and any lateral movement looks v bad
[14:57] <directhex> gord, sadly lots of things get recorded in interlaced anyway
[14:57] <directhex> gord, there's 0 excuse for interlaced anything for the past few decades, but they still do it. i have a 1080i blu-ray somewhere
[14:59] <gord> oimon1, at any rate, x264 can preserve the interlace if you don't want to destroy data, ffmpeg has plenty of options for "fixing" the interlacing also, but they are all going to be destructive. there is also webm available these days which if find useful for uploading to youtube
[15:00] <oimon1> which app would be best for converting dv video to x264 for a video newbie?
[15:00] <oimon1> it seems kino is still the only one to import from a firewire device
[15:01] <gord> i would say that handbrake is the best video converter at the moment, but i don't know if it can read dv video, would hope so. certainly can't import from firewire
[15:01] <oimon1> thanks gord, i'll try HB
[15:02] <gord> you might in the end just want to learn the ffmpeg commands, they aren't too tricky. everything just uses ffmpeg under the hood anyway :)
[15:06] <dogmatic69> one think I miss with screen is scrolling back, any way to get this back?
[15:06] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: you can use screen's scrollback
[15:06] <BigRedS> it's kludgy but the only reliable way I've found
[15:06] <BigRedS> ctrl-A [, then use pgup and pgdown
[15:06] <BigRedS> it's how it does copy-paste, too
[15:06] <BigRedS> esc  to get out of it
[15:07] <BigRedS> I keep seeing ways to make it work more intuitively with pgup/pgdn or scrollwheels but none of those seem portable enough to work from everywhere I ssh to screen
[15:11] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: http://aperiodic.net/screen/quick_reference is what I keep referring to
[15:13] <dogmatic69> thanks
[15:13] <dogmatic69> it seems the scroll wheel is attached to history as you can use it to pick up previous commands
[15:13] <dogmatic69> that is quite nice, but scrolling would be better :D
[15:14] <BigRedS> you might want to put a massive value for defscrollback to get useful scrollback. I have 10240 which almost always means I have all I want and I don't get shouted at for using all the memory any more :)
[15:14] <dogmatic69> on my desktop its unlimited
[15:14] <BigRedS> yeah, I keep thinking that, spend about half an hour fiddling with it then give up for a bit :)
[15:14] <popey> a'noon
[15:14] <dogmatic69> also, ctrl+a gives me a menu
[15:15] <BigRedS> ah yeah, this is a relatively low memory ssh bastion host, so it's just got everyone's screen sessions on it
[15:15] <BigRedS> it does?
[15:15] <dogmatic69> When you press ctrl-a in Byobu, do you want it to operate in:
[15:15] <dogmatic69> emacs / screen
[15:15] <dogmatic69> two options
[15:15] <BigRedS> oh!
[15:15] <popey> thats only the first time
[15:15] <dogmatic69> :) which is better?
[15:15] <BigRedS> 'emacs' is never the answer to that question :)
[15:16] <dogmatic69> popey: my bug was accepted \o/
[15:16] <popey> thats a vi vs emacs question
[15:16] <BigRedS> nah, depends on what you want I suppose
[15:16] <popey> heh
[15:16] <BigRedS> If you want to be able to use screen docs you want 'screen'. If you're a freak you want emacs
[15:16] <dogmatic69> ok, picked screen. now ctrl+a does nothing
[15:17] <BigRedS> no, it puts it in command mode
[15:17] <BigRedS> it doesn't tell you anything when it does that, though :)
[15:17] <BigRedS> hit ctrl-a then " and you'll get a list of screens
[15:17] <dogmatic69> oh
[15:17] <BigRedS> f'rexample
[15:17] <dogmatic69> that works
[15:17] <BigRedS> ctrl-A is teh way to get into Screen's command mode
[15:17] <BigRedS> essentially
[15:18] <BigRedS> It means that screen starts listening to your keystrokes instead of passing them on to the terminal
[15:18] <dogmatic69> ah, ctrl+a then [ == scroll mode
[15:18] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:18] <dogmatic69> then pg up/down
[15:18] <dogmatic69> i see
[15:18] <dogmatic69> rocket science to scroll :D
[15:18] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[15:18] <BigRedS> it becomes muscle memory oddly quickly
[15:18] <BigRedS> I keep doing it in firefox
[15:18] <dogmatic69> slightly more complicated than moving the scroll wheel :P
[15:19] <dogmatic69> hehe
[15:19] <BigRedS> ctrl-A, backspace is a bad bit of muscle memory, too :(
[15:19] <dogmatic69> lol
[15:19] <BigRedS> well, I'm not normally on the mouse when I'm in a terminal, so the scroll wheel's far away
[15:19] <dogmatic69> ah, just the page i wanted... nevermind
[15:28] <jacobw> afternoon
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> *dance* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98XRKr19jIE
[15:31] <BigRedS> Man, I'm always caught out by the ads on youtube
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: adblock!
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> I've never seen an ad on youtube
[15:32] <BigRedS> even the ones at the beginning of the video?
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> yes
[15:32] <BigRedS> Oh!
[15:32] <BigRedS> I've not used adblock for years. I just don't go to sites where I'd want it
[15:32] <BigRedS> I didn't realise it did youtube ads
[15:32] <BigRedS> cunning
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> you can disable it on a per-site basis :)
[15:33] <BigRedS> yeah, it just all seemed like far too much faff
[15:33] <BigRedS> So I just stopped installing it and then not much changed
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> the one in chrome is getting very good
[15:35] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, that's another thing I keep meaning to try out: chrome
[15:36] <BigRedS> I've got incredibly lazy recently. As long as somethign works I generally don't give alternatives any thought
[15:36] <MartijnVdS> I've got my bookmarks synced between my laptop and desktop using chrome
[15:36] <MartijnVdS> that was incentive for me ;)
[15:36] <BigRedS> yeah, I've not yet noticed a need to do that
[15:37] <BigRedS> I think I just hardly ever use bookmarks. And I'd want to sync them to my server rather than somebody else's :)
[15:37] <hamitron> I'm tempted to start running firefox remotely for that reason
[15:37] <MartijnVdS> Embrace the cloud :)
[15:37] <hamitron> and to also save local memory ;)
[15:38] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, *my* cloud :)
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: can't firefox sync to a server you set up yourself?
[15:38] <BigRedS> I think it can
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: You can't own clouds! ;)
[15:38] <BigRedS> In fact, I'm pretty sure there's an extension that does it
[15:38] <hamitron> probably
[15:38] <hamitron> but my way would help the machines with not much memory
[15:38] <hamitron> :)
[15:38]  * MartijnVdS has 4G at work, no swap.
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> RUns fine
[15:39] <hamitron> 256MB
[15:39] <hamitron> ;)
[15:39] <BigRedS> yeah, nothing should have problems with 4GB ram
[15:39] <hamitron> gonna stick another 128MB in sometime
[15:39] <BigRedS> That's a bit of a bill gatesism isn't it...
[15:39] <hamitron> hehe
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I'll hold you to it.
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: if I ever need more, I'll forward the invoice ;)
[15:39] <shauno> BigRedS: we'll be laughing at you in 10 years time :)
[15:40] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[15:40] <BigRedS> Er, nothing *current*, then :)
[15:40] <BigRedS> unless it's written in Java
[15:41] <hamitron> I used to think 128MB was the limit :/
[15:41] <directhex> or ruby.
[15:41] <directhex> ruby apps can also eat all the ram
[15:41] <hamitron> but I still think everything we need could be done with 128MB ;/
[15:41] <hamitron> easy
[15:41] <BigRedS> yeah, but we are largely in a lull as far as an increasing insatiable need for more memory to run normal things
[15:42] <BigRedS> generally, heavy stuff is done somewhere else
[15:42] <directhex> used to admin a box with 1T RAM ;)
[15:42] <BigRedS> We upgraded someone to 32GB on each app server the other day, which I'm still a bit baffled by
[15:43] <BigRedS> I mean, you can fit an OS into that about four times over
[15:44] <BigRedS> Anyway, quick straw poll: how do you decide whether any given package goes in /usr/local or /opt?
[15:44] <hamitron> a very small program with a loop can soon eat loads ;)
[15:44] <BigRedS> the FHS nicely avoids distinguishing between the two, and just gives them quite similar descriptions
[15:44] <hamitron> I put self contained apps in /opt
[15:45] <hamitron> then custom non-packaged "unix like" package in local
[15:45] <BigRedS> and scripts and stuff in /usr/local ?
[15:45] <hamitron> brb phone
[15:45] <BigRedS> yeah. I just found a JRE in /usr/local after installing another into /opt
[15:48] <hamitron> bk
[15:50] <hamitron> imo, just best to be organised how you want BigRedS :)
[15:51] <hamitron> I hate it when someone tells me I did something wrong, just because I did it different to them
[15:51] <hamitron> when it is a matter of preference
[15:51] <yogiman> Hi folks, what the general option on Unity?
[15:51] <BigRedS> well, I was just wondering how everyone else interpreted it
[15:52] <BigRedS> yogiman: option? or opinion? :)
[15:52] <yogiman> Sorry typo, opinion
[15:52] <yogiman> :)
[15:52] <hamitron> I've heard it is amazing
[15:52] <hamitron> also heard it has problems
[15:52] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, reactions seem very mixed
[15:52] <yogiman> Well not sure I would go with amazing, possibly is if you are using it on a tablet
[15:53] <BigRedS> I find it absolutely fine, except for when it annoyes me
[15:53] <hamitron> I'll be trying it once 12.04 is out to make my own opinion ;)
[15:53] <BigRedS> and then it's _really_ annoying
[15:53] <BigRedS> did you really just come here to start *another* unity argument?
[15:53] <BigRedS> they're getting more tedious that Christians Vs Atheists
[15:53] <BigRedS> *than
[15:53] <hamitron> hehe
[15:54] <yogiman> Not looking for an argument, just wondering what peoples thoughts were and if I am looking at this from the wrong perspective.
[15:54] <BigRedS> at least with them there's the genuine problem of eternal hellfire
[15:54] <BigRedS> ahh
[15:54] <BigRedS> yeah, some people find it fine, others dislike it
[15:55] <BigRedS> as with everything Ubuntu and GUI related the opinions are peculiarly noisy :)
[15:55] <BigRedS> Personally, I prefer Gnome3 generally, but not by enough to have actually installed it on my Ubuntu machine
[15:55] <yogiman> Is it just me or are they pushing this more towards tablet users rather than desktop users, it seems that I spend more time doing things now than I ever did in Gnome2
[15:56] <hamitron> I never liked Gnome2, and haven't tried Gnome3 or Unity yet.... so I'll be interested to see how I find it
[15:56] <hamitron> I put it down to being used to working a certain way
[15:57] <hamitron> and change is always effort
[15:57] <BigRedS> yogiman: it's just you IMO. I think they just had too many E numbers at some of the design meetings :)
[15:57] <hamitron> :D
[15:57] <yogiman> Well I figured it was just me, the wiffy trout always says so!
[15:57] <BigRedS> haha
[15:58] <BigRedS> In general, though, I'm having trouble seeing the major problem this sudden overhaul of DEs fixes
[15:58] <yogiman> What does it fix
[15:58] <BigRedS> except for the fact that hierarchical menus aren't a good way of finding software
[15:58] <yogiman> everything seems fine to me
[15:58] <BigRedS> I mean, we've had two brand-new DEs in about a year and we're still using network mangler
[15:58] <BigRedS> misplaced priorities :)
[15:59] <yogiman> but is typing the title a good way?
[15:59] <BigRedS> well, I still just use alt-f2 so I'd say 'yes'
[15:59] <BigRedS> they're not mutually exclusive
[15:59] <yogiman> fair point
[15:59] <BigRedS> but menus are bad for people who know what they're looking for and bad for people who don't
[16:00] <BigRedS> they're good for people who know where in the menu the thing they're looking for is
[16:00] <yogiman> I would agree but there seem to have been much better options that the supplied launcher.
[16:00] <BigRedS> Really? The launcher seems alright to me
[16:00] <yogiman> of course thats just my 2 penny worth and I don't even listen to myself.
[16:00] <popey> 16:52:59 < yogiman> Well not sure I would go with amazing, possibly is if you are using it on a tablet
[16:00] <popey> aaarrrrgh
[16:00] <BigRedS> well, except for the hypercorrecting
[16:00] <popey> try it
[16:00] <popey> it's _rubbish_ on a tablet :D
[16:01] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, I've never understood why increasing reliance on the keyboard would make it more tablet orientated
[16:01] <yogiman> surely something like AWN would have sufficed or is that generally hated.
[16:02] <BigRedS> I don't know. Can it not be used with unity?
[16:02] <BigRedS> Personally, i'd not like it
[16:02] <BigRedS> I've tried docks before and they also feel like a really lazy approach to the problem
[16:03] <BigRedS> "We need to launch programs somehow. Oh, let's make buttons to click on for it. Okay"
[16:03] <yogiman> Well at present I have made the assumption not.  As I don't think you can remove the existing Launcher.
[16:03] <BigRedS> why couldn't you do both?
[16:03]  * BigRedS doesn't play with DEs or WMs very much
[16:03] <yogiman> OK but if you don't have a launcher and you don't want menus then psychic powers perhaps is the answer!
[16:04] <BigRedS> nah, I want to hit a button, type what I want and have it appear
[16:04] <BigRedS> which is sort-of what the launcher does
[16:04] <BigRedS> sometimes
[16:04] <yogiman> I prefer my wife to hit the button, while serving up a brew ;-)
[16:04] <BigRedS> haha
[16:05] <yogiman> OK well as I say don't want to start an argument, just wanted some other opinions and you guys have been great, thanks for your words people :)
[16:06] <hamitron> think I'm going back to LXDE, from fluxbox
[16:06] <BigRedS> I keep trying LXDE. Each time I decide it's not worth the faff and go back to plain *box :)
[16:06] <yogiman> We could always go back to GEM
[16:06] <BigRedS> and then get annoyed with that not being pretty and go back to a full-blown DE
[16:07] <hamitron> I can't really do that on this machine
[16:07] <hamitron> ;)
[16:07] <yogiman> not sure I am over bothered about pretty, but functional would be nice.
[16:07] <hamitron> tbh, LXDE seems to just work
[16:07] <hamitron> reminds me of the win95 menu
[16:08] <yogiman> oh not Dimdows please..... :(
[16:08] <hamitron> which is probably my personal favourite :)
[16:08] <BigRedS> haha! You pervert!
[16:09] <yogiman> Can't remember which distro I was playing with but had one a while back where menu was on right mouse click, that was odd
[16:09] <Twinkletoes|H> I can mount an admin share from a windows box OK using the mount command, and can see the contents.  However, when using autofs (and testing with autmount -f -v), the directory is mounted, but not showing any contents.  There are no errors either.
[16:09] <BigRedS> most of the *boxes do that; openbox, fluxbox, blackbox
[16:10] <hamitron> XFCE does too?
[16:10] <hamitron> a while since I used XFCE
[16:10] <hamitron> so not 100% sure
[16:11] <yogiman> Oh ok that makes sense why I haven't seen it since
[16:11] <hamitron> I've used fluxbox for over a month now
[16:11] <hamitron> can live with it
[16:11] <hamitron> but not really the best for me
[16:11] <BigRedS> Twinkletoes|H: How are you checking for the share's mountedness?
[16:11] <BigRedS> and also for its contents?
[16:12] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: ls -al /path/to/share
[16:12] <BigRedS> I may well be no help here, but there's a narrow chance I can help :)
[16:12] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: autofs creates the mountpoint, but there' snothing inside
[16:12] <BigRedS> path to share or path to mountpoint?
[16:12] <Twinkletoes|H> mountpoint
[16:12] <hamitron> I'll leave you guys in peace to sort out the problem
[16:12] <hamitron> :)
[16:13] <BigRedS> Is this on a headless machine? I've recollection of Gnome/whatever getting inthe way of automount until specific things try to access it
[16:13] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: Ubuntu Server, no gnome
[16:14] <BigRedS> Hm, I've no idea then I'm afraid. AFAIK that should Just Work but I've never actually done it
[16:14] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: I can paste the config, but I don't understand why it mounts ok, but doesn't display the files, and I'm using "Administrator" as the login too
[16:14] <Twinkletoes|H> (and a credentials file)
[16:14] <djbenny> afternoon
[16:15] <BigRedS> Twinkletoes|H: yeah, not sure I could be much more help even with a config file tbh.
[16:16] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: Thanks anyway :)
[16:16] <djbenny> does anhyone have any idea of any Linux trainin courses in the UK, distance learning?
[16:16] <djbenny> all i can find is basic stuff, which i knowq how to do
[16:16] <BigRedS> djbenny: what sort of thing, then?
[16:16] <BigRedS> specific certificates?
[16:17] <djbenny> well yeah a professional qualification
[16:17] <BigRedS> Ubuntu sell distance-learning LPIC courses
[16:18] <BigRedS> well, UCP, which is LPCI with a Ubuntu exam on top
[16:18] <djbenny> ah ok, where do they sell that stu
[16:18] <djbenny> them*
[16:18] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: Solved... it didn't like to mount admin shared (ie. D$)  even though mount from the command line would work ok
[16:18] <Twinkletoes|H> I wonder if it's something that's happening to the $ on the end of the auto map
[16:19] <BigRedS> Oh! It doesn't do LPIC any more. But Canonical's training stuff is here: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=21
[16:19] <BigRedS> Twinkletoes|H: oh! So subdirs work or something?
[16:20] <Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: seems like anythign works as long as it's not an damin shre... C$, D$ etc....
[16:20] <BigRedS> oh, fair enough
[16:20] <BigRedS> odd
[16:20] <BigRedS> I've long since stopped trying to understand windows file sharing :)
[16:20] <Twinkletoes|H> Don't blame you
[16:23] <djbenny> BigRedS, cheers, i looked on the canocial website
[16:24] <djbenny> although i was looking for a more broad spectrum, of not just ubuntu
[16:28] <BigRedS> yeah, teh LPIC is pretty broad
[16:28] <BigRedS> and now not what you get from Canonical
[16:28] <BigRedS> well, it's not distro-specific
[16:29] <BigRedS> what sort of stuff are you after?
[16:29] <BigRedS> server/desktop admin? networking? programming?
[16:33] <djbenny> server
[16:34] <djbenny> desktop admin
[16:34] <djbenny> with least amount of programming possible :P
[16:34] <BigRedS> haha
[16:35] <BigRedS> well, you can't get that far into it without doing some scripting :)
[16:35] <djbenny> not the biggest fan of programming
[16:35] <BigRedS> but, yeah, that's the sort of thing lpic's aimed at. but most certification is aimed at people who teach themselves
[16:35] <BigRedS> well, that's the normal assumption; get a book, study from it, sit the exam
[16:37] <djbenny> ok cheers
[16:37] <djbenny> thanks for the help
[17:08]  * MartijnVdS finishes soldering for the day
[17:38] <BigRedS> hah
[17:38] <BigRedS> that has to be the most roundabout way to get a sorted list of human-readable directory sizes
[17:38] <BigRedS> du -sh `du -s * | sort -rn | awk '{print $NF}'`
[17:40] <shauno> (and breaks if names contain spaces ;)
[17:40] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[17:40] <BigRedS> it's of /home so they don't
[17:40] <BigRedS> I just hit enter then realised what I'd concocted
[17:48] <dwatkins> BigRedS: handy, I usually just use 'du -k' or 'du -ak | sort -rn'
[17:52] <BigRedS> I've just seen sort has a -h
[17:52] <BigRedS> compare human readable numbers (e.g., 2K 1G)
[17:53] <BigRedS> Hah, it didn't in Lenny. I feel less bad about having not noticed that before
[17:53] <dwatkins> oh neat :)
[18:28] <popey> Evening all
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:30] <brobostigon> o/
[18:33]  * MartijnVdS ponders buying/making a solar battery charger
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> option 2: using the hub dynamo on my bike
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> option 3: just recharge everything at night in hotel/b&b rooms
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> (I'm going to cycle around the Netherlands in September -- 1300km )
[18:38] <BigRedS> I've not yet come across a dynamo that didn't feel like a complete waste of energy
[18:38] <BigRedS> if you're staying in actual buildings I'd just charge there, perhaps with an auxiliary battery just in case
[18:39] <dwatkins> Adafruit sell a solar cell and the mintyboost which should charge USB devices if there's enough sun, in theory.
[18:40] <BigRedS> yeah, but then you're just asking to be rained on for the whole trip
[18:41] <dwatkins> True, I'd be interested in knowing how well it copes in various conditions, might get me one to try out, and make a box to charge a phone in.
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: This one is always on I think
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and because it's in the hub, you don't feel it (like a bottle dynamo)
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Yeah, I've managed to find some cool things on adafruit and sparkfun
[18:42] <BigRedS> ah yeah, forgot about hub dynamos
[18:42] <BigRedS> despite you mentioning it initially :)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: :)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> I need to power a GPS logger as well.. unless I can power my phone during the ride
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> (and find a way to mount my phone in a water-proof way)
[18:43] <dwatkins> I'm really interested to know how bright this is: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dynamodirk/magnic-light-get-new-energy
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> good thing it isn't September yet
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: depends on the magnets. Good neodymium ones should be able to supply quite a bit of power
[18:44] <BigRedS> I've seen mock-ups of those that're pretty poor
[18:44] <BigRedS> as in home-made efforts
[18:45] <BigRedS> but these flashing ones people're using now seem as bright as the flashing battery ones, so they should be OK
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37e_OROP9dA
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's the same effect
[18:51] <dwatkins> I don't like flashing [front] bike lights, they make a bike visible, but blind drivers. They don't really illuminate the road/path either.
[18:52] <gord> anything that flashes is always annoying
[18:53] <BigRedS> I find that constant lights are generally much less well placed than flashing ones
[18:53] <BigRedS> I've always advocated the 'moving' lights
[18:54] <BigRedS> quick search doesn't find a video, but the knight rider style ones
[18:54] <BigRedS> ld600s do it
[18:58] <dwatkins> yeah, I have a rear light that does a 'knight rider' thing up and down, that works well at making me more visible
[18:59] <dwatkins> When I'm cycling home along the canal path, I want a light that'll illuminate the path and any dogs people are taking for a walk with no lead.
[18:59] <dwatkins> If the people themselves are stupid enough to go out in the pitch black without any lights or reflective gear, that's their problem ;)
[18:59] <penguin42> dwatkins: Have you noticed that dogs seem to be getting smaller? Some you find in cities are >tiny<, you can just be walking along minding your own business, and if you're not careful you could completely squash one
[19:00] <dwatkins> yeah penguin42 - although some dogs have nifty LED collars
[19:01] <dwatkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygasOBHBhgI&feature=fvst
[19:02] <penguin42> dwatkins: That's very very odd
[19:03] <dwatkins> the collars are odd, penguin42?
[19:03] <penguin42> oh just a pack of flashing dogs
[19:03] <penguin42> dwatkins: I mean wouldn't be easier to give them that glowing jelly fish gene?
[19:05] <madpup> So next quick question i have a M5A99x mobo and i cant get lm-sensors to work, sensors-detect finds the it87 sensor chip but modprobe says no such device? do i have to pass an argument to it87 to say which version it it?
[19:05] <dwatkins> penguin42: I thought that meant they ended up having no fur
[21:02] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Translation Help Needed! How To Translate Ubuntu Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/07/translation-help-needed-how-to-translate-ubuntu-accomplishments/
[22:18] <dogmatic69> anyone on 12.04 that can suspend properly? If I click suspend it either logs me out or reboots.
[22:18]  * bigcalm grabs his laptop to find out
[22:18] <bigcalm> How recently did you upgrade?
[22:20] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: I have the latests and greatest of 12.04, also been a problem since 12.04b2 was out
[22:20] <dogmatic69> not that i tried b1 or earlier
[22:20] <bigcalm> It was find for me last night
[22:30] <Laney> how 'bout that boat race :O
[22:31] <bigcalm> Did somebody sink?
[22:32] <Laney> in a manner of speaking
[22:35] <bigcalm> Did you lose a lot of money betting?
[22:36] <Laney> someone managed to swim into the middle of the river and stop the race
[22:37] <Laney> and then there was a collision and one of oxford's blades broke, gifting cambridge the race
[22:37] <dogmatic69> lol
[22:37] <dwatkins> flail
[22:37] <Laney> and then at the end one of oxford's rowers passed out
[22:41] <bigcalm> Nice
[22:42] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: you can suspend ok?
[22:43] <bigcalm> Sorry, got side tracked :)
[22:43] <dogmatic69> hehe
[22:43] <dogmatic69> np
[22:57]  * bigcalm sleeps
[23:07] <dogmatic69> what package handles shutdown / suspend etc?
[23:11] <hamitron> upstart?
[23:12] <penguin42> dogmatic69: Thing is it's a bunch of things - upstart, pm-utils, the kernel etc
[23:19] <dogmatic69> just need one for a bug report. best guess for suspend
[23:25] <dogmatic69> bug 976276
[23:25] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 976276 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Suspend either logs out or reboots, not suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/976276
[23:26] <dogmatic69> I was just thinking, could it be that my swap is too small to suspend?
[23:50] <BigRedS> That'd be a dumb way to react if it was
[23:52] <dwatkins> I could understand a failed suspend locking the screen.
[23:57] <dogmatic69> here is another one, If I ctrl+alt+l (lock screen) I can still see the title bar of the app last used and the dock on the left
[23:57] <dogmatic69> that seems like a possible security issue.


[03:38] <ethana2> ok, I'm having trouble just getting java working to display web pages
[03:38] <ethana2> i installed sun jre6 with apt
[03:38] <ethana2> ....and firefox isn't seeing it
[03:43]  * ethana2 installs openjdk-6-jre
[03:48] <ethana2> got it, sweet
[14:59] <persia> Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in a few minutes
[15:13] <slytherin> dalibor: there?
[15:14] <dalibor> slytherin: yes!
[15:14] <slytherin> dalibor: your presence is requested in #ubuntu-meeting
[15:15] <dalibor> thanks for the reminder, just camer in from outside


[09:12] <MeanderingCode> hello all.  i'm wondering: is there such thing as a bootable image for armv7 (tegra 3) with a "secure boot" signed bootloader?
[09:12] <MeanderingCode> because, well, that would make my day
[09:12] <MeanderingCode> or my month :)
[11:39] <both> Are there any ARM beginners here?
[20:31] <MeanderingCode> anyone up for my previous question?
[21:16] <k1l_> MeanderingCode: best is to ask the community around that device to get to know what to do
[21:27] <MeanderingCode> k1l_: there is no community around the device :)
[21:28] <k1l_> MeanderingCode: its not like on the desktop where we have one .iso and generic drivers for all sort of hardware.
[21:29] <MeanderingCode> k1l_: i've been gathering that, from reading yesterday.  but, there must be a bootloader, yes?
[21:29] <MeanderingCode> and with it, one could make a bootable USB
[21:30] <MeanderingCode> *bootloader, or this "Shim" thing i've read about w/ secure boot signed x86 bootloaders
[21:31] <k1l_> so you got a locked bootloader on that device?
[21:32] <MeanderingCode> it's a surface rt, tegra 3 processor...the UEFI is locked to secure boot.  it will boot from USB, but it would have to be a signed bootloader for the uefi secure boot to load any code
[21:33] <MeanderingCode> *and i know no one is working on it, and no one cares, and it's considered a dead end/lost cause, but i have inherited one and (if there is a signed shim or bootloader for armv7), there is really no reason it couldn't run linux for arm
[21:34] <k1l_> iirc the microsoft tablets are locked bootloaders and you cant sign a kernel because you dont get the microsoft key
[21:35] <k1l_> see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2655398
[21:41] <MeanderingCode> k1l_: yes, i've read that.  essentially (before it spun off into exploit and bootstrapping), one person said they thought they recalled that there were no signed bootloaders/kernels for linux on arm.  there is on x86, and that's one of the 2 or 3 unauthoritative places i've seen that statement made, which is why i thought i'd ask here about secure boot signed arm bootloaders/shim
[21:42] <k1l_> MeanderingCode: secureboot on pc (x86) is a total other business than arm for microsoft.
[21:42] <k1l_> on arm its locked by default
[21:43] <MeanderingCode> i realize that.
[21:43] <k1l_> so it will not help that its different on x86 as long as there are no keys for arm.
[21:43] <MeanderingCode> are you saying that you know there are no signed linux bootloaders for arm, or that it is different
[21:43] <MeanderingCode> because i already know that it is different
[21:43] <k1l_> which microsoft made because to save their business for arm.
[21:44] <k1l_> microsoft demands locked bootloaders if the device ships microsoft windows.
[21:44] <k1l_> (on arm)
[21:49] <k1l_> MeanderingCode: the setup on most arm is: hardcoded bootloader which either boots only signed kernels or could be opened to boot even unsigned kernels. for microsoft shiping devices microsoft demands to only boot microsoft signed kernels.
[21:50] <k1l_> i am not aware of a method to evade that hardcoded bootloaders. even on devices that ship android (linux kernel) they could not break that but used other methods like kexec to boot another unsigned kernel after the original signed kernel was booted. but i am not aware that works with microsoft.
[21:51] <k1l_> that is why you should ask the surface community, because they will know best on the specific setup of that device.
[22:12] <MeanderingCode> k1l_: thanks for all the insight.  maybe i'll dig futher to see if anyone's done it, or maybe i'll just give it to my kids to play games when out and about :)


[07:35] <theFATMAN> i have a portable media player that is similar to an ipod in that it is recognized as aHDD and is bootable. can i install ubuntu mobile on it?
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[10:46] <pof> I have an HTC Shift (intel A110) running ubuntu and would like to test ubuntu-mobile on it. Is there any pre-built image that allows booting from USB pendrive without having to repartition my HDD?
[13:13] <amitk> pof: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/
[13:14] <amitk> pof: trying the mccaslin ones
[13:14] <amitk> *try
[18:55] <wirelessdreamer> what processors will ubuntu mobile support?
[18:56] <wirelessdreamer> nm, i didn't look long enough
[20:08] <cl0s> whats up? I'm trying to build a mini-itx computer for my car but want to mess with ubuntu mobile before I even start buyin parts.. is there an easy way to set it up like in qemo or virtual box?
[20:09] <cl0s> oh sorry, think i found it in the wiki.. over looked it before
[20:19] <wirelessdreamer> what media player does ubutu-mobile use by default?
[20:20] <wirelessdreamer> cl0s feel free to stop by #linuxice it bounce ideas off people, we all do carpc stuff there as well
[20:20] <cl0s> nice thankss
[20:26] <cl0s> not sure what it uses..
[20:31] <warren_> question can you install ubuntu mobile on a moto q
[20:32] <warren_> I can handle the truth
[20:34] <lool> moto q?
[20:34] <lool> It's meant for lpia devices ATM, details are in the FAQ
[22:26] <davmor2> cgregan: ping
[22:26] <cgregan> davmor2: pong
[22:28] <davmor2> xephyr is working :) however multimedia isn't :( no photo's, no music, no video all say not while docked
[22:28] <cgregan> Yep....logged that one against 20080523
[22:29] <cgregan> Don't worry about it. We are more concerned about making sure we have all the apps that we said we would. Not that they are fully functional. There is a loophole in the contract for that
[22:30] <cgregan> Ofcourse log bugs so that we can track
[22:30] <cgregan> but since we have little control over upstream projects...we need to make sure the apps are there
[22:30] <davmor2> cheese no working either for obvious reasons. dates has blank terminals instead of icon along the bottom
[22:31] <cgregan> lame
[22:31] <davmor2> file managers icons are cut in two also
[22:31] <cgregan> I'm surprised we have this much breakage this late
[22:32] <cgregan> Log them all...I will triage against the Mccaslin build on my Q1
[22:32] <davmor2> this could still be xephyr though just cause one bits working does mean it all is :)
[22:32] <GrueMaster> davmore2:  What build are you testing?
[22:32] <cgregan> Yeah...but I have a device so I can confirm
[22:32] <GrueMaster> Daily?
[22:32] <davmor2> GrueMaster: 20080527
[22:33] <davmor2> no home page on browser any more again could be xephyr
[22:34] <GrueMaster> Ok.  I can do some further testing on a CB.  There are still a lot of usability issues that I have seen.
[22:34] <cgregan> davmor2: Log that...I have seen it on device
[22:34] <GrueMaster> Also, I wish someone would document how to get an image up in a VM environment.  It is more realistic than xephyr for image testing.
[22:35] <davmor2> cgregan: I'll log the lot and send you an email with the list save you reading through
[22:35] <cgregan> davmor2: thanks!
[22:35] <davmor2> At least now it looks right :)
[22:37] <davmor2> pidgin works :)
[22:37] <davmor3> oh yes it does
[22:42] <davmor2> cgregan: feel free to try Ekiga any time :)
[22:42] <cgregan> Cool....I will....My Q1 sound is screwed up on the latest build....won't let me raise the mic level
[22:43] <cgregan> Waiting in the 0527 mccaslin build now
[22:43] <davmor2> I like the backdrops selection there are some nice ones :)
[22:44] <davmor2> I'll be around testing till midnight anyway so another 1hr and 15mins.  So if you get and running feel free.  Same applies to anyone else<EMAIL_ADDRESS>knock yourselves out :)
[22:47] <davmor2> Weird second time I opened up the browser home page is there ?!?
[22:51] <cgregan> Yep...it tries to open %d or something the first time
[22:53] <davmor2> fbreader seems to be working properly although I have no files to try out on it :)
[23:01] <davmor2> I noticed a usability issue with contacts.  There's no save button.  Just close, I'm assuming most people would look for a way to save the info they just added?
[23:13] <davmor2> cgregan: can you just check bug 228094 cause it seems to work for me?
[23:13] <davmor2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/228094
[23:13] <cgregan> Sure
[23:23] <lool> GrueMaster: Checkout simple-vm-builder
[23:23] <lool> I need to package it, but it's too late for today
[23:24] <lool> cgregan: You should be able to run tests on /boot/config-* starting with dailies built against today's MIC
[23:24] <GrueMaster> lool:  Will do.
[23:24] <lool> GrueMaster: BTW, re: grep -l: no, it wasn't the same functionality
[23:24] <lool> I was outputting files not matching, not files matching the pattern
[23:25] <GrueMaster> oops.  My bad.
[23:25] <cgregan> lool: ok, thanks
[23:26] <GrueMaster> lool:  grep -vl maybe?
[23:26] <GrueMaster> or grep -L
[23:27] <lool> Probably
[23:27] <lool> Looks like it
[23:27] <cgregan> davmor2: You are correct....image zoom now working on 20080527
[23:28]  * lool calls it a day
[23:28] <davmor2> cool fixed that's 2
[23:28] <davmor2> you can delete bookmarks too :)
[23:29] <davmor2> cgregan: is the media thing still happening on the device too?
[23:32] <cgregan> Also fixed on mccaslin
[23:35] <davmor2> so that might be xephyr
[23:35] <cgregan> No....used to happen on devices too
[23:36] <davmor2> still is on xephyr though
[23:38] <cgregan> I see
[23:38] <cgregan> You are using Menlow project?
[23:39] <davmor2> cgregan: there are only 3 bugs from what I can tell.  DO you want me to email them to you or just stick them here?
[23:39] <davmor2> yes menlow
[23:39] <cgregan> It is still active in Menlow for some reason
[23:39] <cgregan> Not sure
[23:39] <cgregan> Stick the three bugs in...I will review from Launchpad
[23:40] <davmor2> bug 235336.
[23:40] <davmor2> bug 235338.
[23:40] <davmor2> bug 235342.
[23:40] <davmor2> I've added images to the bugs that I can but not the contact bug.  It's pretty obvious :)
[23:41] <davmor2> and is probably wishlist
[23:41] <cgregan> Thanks
[23:42] <davmor2> Games don't run but that is because the root path doesn't include /usr/games.  However Frozen-Bubble runs from cli
[23:42] <davmor2> with full path :)
[23:43] <davmor2> But I believe that UME user does include /usr/games in the path :)
[23:44] <cgregan> Seems to work on Q1
[23:44] <cgregan> But we are not comparing the same build
[23:44] <davmor2> yes it's an xephyr root thing :)
[23:45] <davmor2> Time and date won't unlock in xephyr root
[23:48] <davmor2> that seems to be the only issue I can find in preferences :)
[23:48] <davmor2> but is already a bug and has been confirmed
[23:51] <davmor2> Right I think I'm going to crash out now. Night.


[16:30] <belovedk> Installed but will like to have xfce as desktop manager.
[16:31] <belovedk> The pc is quite an old one.
[16:51] <belovedk> >
[16:51] <belovedk> grep


[13:37] <zequence> Just tried Debian linux, and compared to a custom -lowlatency. Identical results on this machine.
[13:37] <zequence> Gonna do some testing with Ubuntu -generic kernel, and compare with -lowlatency
[13:57] <zequence> cyclictest was showing extremely nice results for my -lowlatency, compared to the "generic" Debian kernel, however, in practice, I can use the same latency setting for jack on both and I seem to have the same amount of dropouts
[17:17] <holstein> zequence: that seems good.. seems like what i have been hoping would just trickle into the generic kernel
[17:17] <holstein> i *cant* wait til im through building this house, and can maybe have a minute or 2 to test some things again
[17:19] <zequence> holstein: I need more time to test, and research what the difference is. This is just one machine.
[17:20] <zequence> Need to get a grasp on the new scheduler in use (which I had totally missed)
[17:20] <zequence> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCHED_DEADLINE
[17:20] <holstein> yup.. and i have found that with internal hardware and usb, i seemed to get different results, compared to the firewire device
[17:21] <holstein> and that was 12.10? somewhere around that time...
[17:21] <zequence> No, I think it's since Utopic actually
[17:21] <zequence> Since kernel version 3.14
[17:21] <zequence> Trusty has 3.13
[17:22] <zequence> Utopic 3.16
[17:22] <zequence> 3.16 is the one with firewire support in alsa too
[17:23] <holstein> i mean, for me.. i was getting "similar" performance with the lowlatency and generic last time i tested.. with internal hardware and USB's
[17:23] <holstein> im stoked about alsa firewire as well
[17:23] <zequence> Doing cyclictest on this machine gave me numbers for lowlatency that I've only seen on a realtime kernel
[17:23] <holstein> out of the box firewire audio support!... just in time for firewire to become obselete ;)
[17:24] <zequence> But, it's a little premature to say anything. Besides, jack was not performing any better
[17:24] <zequence> Yeah :D
[17:24] <zequence> cyclictest is a part of rt-tools, a set of tools used for measuring rt kernels
[17:25] <zequence> There has been some talk about this deadline scheduler. Trying to catch up on all of that