[00:01] <Riddell> maybe or maybe not, depends on the thoroughness of the other archive admins
[00:01] <ajmitch> or depending on how annoying our nagging is :)
[00:19] <porthose> Riddell, not sure what you mean?
[00:21] <Riddell> porthose: all sorted, please ignore :)
[00:21] <Riddell> siretart: can you ack bug 590219 ?
[00:21] <porthose> Riddell, k :)
[00:24] <lfaraone> If I'm writing a guide for people new to Debian/Ubuntu packaging to teach them how to package a specific type of software that has well-defined ways for operating and being distrubited, would it be acceptable to provide a skeleton akin to what dh_make produces but customized for this class of software?
[00:25] <james_w> could you teach dh_make how to do the right thing for that class?
[00:26] <lfaraone> james_w: Possibly. Ideally, I'm trying to make a solution that is akin to "just add water!" (source, description, copyright)
[00:26] <lfaraone> james_w: it's using CDBS, so it might be rejected as duplication of the existing cdbs option, no?
[00:27] <james_w> possibly, I don't know
[00:27] <james_w> depends whether it's something like python, or like "sugar app" I guess?
[00:27] <james_w> python module I mean
[00:27] <lfaraone> james_w: sugar app.
[00:27] <james_w> I don't know if there is a useful distinction, but there may be one to the dh_make maintainer
[00:27] <james_w> you could ask
[00:28] <james_w> always better to just have the tool do the right thing IMO
[00:30] <ajmitch> there are a few separate tools around that do that
[00:30] <lfaraone> hmmm. dh_make supports templates. this may be the way to go.
[00:30] <lfaraone> *user supplied.
[00:30] <lfaraone> ajmitch: like waht?
[00:31] <ajmitch> like dh-make-php, or similar stuff for CPAN modules
[00:32] <ajmitch> (which is dh-make-perl)
[00:32] <ajmitch> I'm not sure if you want to go down that path
[00:32] <lfaraone> ajmitch: I'd like to implement the simplist solution possible, but nothing simpler.
[01:29] <Ddorda> hey, i'm looking for an unpackaged program so i can gain experience. is there a list or something?
[01:30] <ScottK> Ddorda: If you want to gain experience with packaging, fixing bugs and packaging patches is a much better way to do it.
[01:32] <Ddorda> ScottK: i want to learn how to package a program from zero, i guess that method won't fit for now, but after i'll know more i believe that this is what i'll do
[01:33] <ScottK> Ddorda: Look for bugs tagged 'needs-packaging' in Launchpad.
[01:33] <Ddorda> ScottK: oh! thanks! that's i was looking for :)
[02:54] <artfwo> Hi! Would anyone care to sponsor bug 591528 (main)?
[02:55] <micahg> artfwo: you might have better luck in #ubuntu-devel
[02:55] <micahg> artfwo: since it's in main
[02:55] <artfwo> okay, will try there
[03:11] <ajmitch> artfwo: so it doesn't try & connect to www.oasis-open.org anymore with your patch?
[03:11] <artfwo> nope
[03:11] <artfwo> ajmitch, when docbook-xml is installed in the system, docbook-utils no longer try to look for it online
[03:13] <ajmitch> useful
[03:13] <ajmitch> I'll upload it once I've built it then
[03:14] <artfwo> ajmitch, okay, thanks
[04:52] <siretart> Riddell: AFAIUI, it is a standard NBS job. so in short: yes
[06:27] <raywang> TheMuso, hi
[06:29] <raywang> TheMuso, hi, let's talk about it here.
[06:29] <TheMuso> raywang: ok sure.]
[06:30] <raywang> TheMuso, ok, thank you for taking your time to review packages. 0.3.2 seems have some bugs, and I plan to have you sponsor 0.3.1 instead, what do you think?
[06:31] <TheMuso> raywang: Sure, these pacakges won't be going into the Ubuntu archive proper. They will go into the accessibility-dev PPA, and possibly into vinux if the vinux devs want them.
[06:31] <TheMuso> raywang: At-spi2 will only be considered if its stable enough for every day use, which it seems it is not, so for maverick, we are sticking with at-spi v1.
[06:31] <raywang> TheMuso, that's good
[06:32] <raywang> TheMuso, alright, that makes sense, but at least there is somewhere that holds new at-spi2 for the people who wants them. :)
[06:32] <TheMuso> raywang: Agreed.
[06:33] <raywang> TheMuso, and do you have some time to write me an Testimonials, I'm applying ubuntu member, and I need your help if you would like to do it. :)
[06:33] <raywang> TheMuso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RayWang
[06:33] <TheMuso> raywang: Unfortunately I haven't see much of what you have been doing in the community, so I am not sure I am in a position to comment.
[06:34] <raywang> TheMuso, yeah, I see, anyway, thanks all the same. :)
[06:34] <TheMuso> raywang: np
[06:38] <lifeless> TheMuso: you can comment on the contributions you're seeing, and development is a contribution
[06:39] <lifeless> TheMuso: there is the contributing developer concept now :)
[06:39] <TheMuso> lifeless: I haven't seen anything yet, thats my point.
[06:40] <lifeless> ah kk
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:04] <abogani2> to you
[10:48] <ari-tczew> dholbach: I wrote: Ubuntu package has forwarded -> as all package was uploaded in Debian and Debian has released a more revisions than Ubuntu
[10:48] <dholbach> ari-tczew: I'm not sure I understand
[10:49] <ari-tczew> dholbach: it's visible in Debian's changelog
[10:49] <dholbach> ari-tczew: Ubuntu introduced changes that were already upstream
[10:49] <dholbach> ari-tczew: like in upstream upstream
[10:50] <dholbach> ari-tczew: debian packaged new upstream tarballs separately (and only one of the security issues in mentioned in the debian changelog)
[10:50] <dholbach> ari-tczew: as you can see from the debian bug tracker, nothing was ever forwarded from ubuntu to debian
[10:51] <ari-tczew> dholbach: you don't understand me. I mean _package has forwarded_ so Debian earlier doesn't got this package, but Ubuntu yes. Then later maintainer drag package from Ubuntu, adjust for Debian and pack in Debian newer upstream releases, but not in Ubuntu
[10:52] <dholbach> ari-tczew: I don't think that's what happened
[10:53] <dholbach> in Ubuntu: chef (0.7.10-0ubuntu1.1) karmic-security; urgency=low Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:21:07 -0800
[10:53] <dholbach> in Debian: chef (0.7.14-3) unstable; urgency=low Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:33:44 -0700
[10:53] <dholbach> (so even before the fix landed in Ubuntu, there were a couple of new upstream releases in Debian already)
[10:54] <dholbach> in general it was OK to sync the package, but the analysis wasn't quite right
[10:59] <ari-tczew> dholbach: and what next?
[10:59] <dholbach> ari-tczew: I ACKed the sync
[11:00] <dholbach> ari-tczew: as I said: it was OK to sync, I just had a question about the explanation in the bug
[11:03] <ari-tczew> dholbach: as you see, my syncs almost always are good :P
[11:33] <directhex> isn't chef tollef's?
[11:34] <directhex> hm, no.
[11:35] <directhex> oh, he's hacking upstream
[13:23] <sim> Hi
[13:24] <ari-tczew> hi sim
[13:24] <sim> How to restrict kernel package (ppa) build to a single architecture ?
[13:25] <sim> Actually I am only interested in building the amd64 kernel package
[13:25] <sim> Moreover I'd like avoiding Makefile mutilations :)
[13:26] <ari-tczew> sim: why do you neeed to disable build on other architectures ?
[13:26] <sim> ari-tczew: I want build a kernel package which provide support for a x86_64 board
[13:27] <sim> ari-tczew: so a x86 build will not be different from the generic version
[13:27] <sim> ari-tczew: just it will use some extra space...
[13:27] <abogani2> sim: debian.master/rules.d/* debian.master/control.d/*
[13:28] <ari-tczew> sim:  I dunno
[13:29] <sim> I am really sad to have to do that :(
[13:30] <sim> I will have to merge some specific ppa modifications with the next kernel package releases
[13:31] <sim> A way to select the build target from the launchpad platform would be a real improvement
[13:55]  * abogani2 waves
[13:55] <abogani2> Anyone could procede with sync for this package: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rxtx/+bug/591682
[14:03] <BlackZ> abogani2: if you have subscribed ubuntu-sponsors it's OK
[14:04] <ari-tczew> cody-somerville: you can take merge xchat. I'm busy until 18th June
[14:06] <ari-tczew> abogani2: why you ask about this sync? you are not a requester
[14:07] <ari-tczew> cody-somerville: bug for xchat is bug 591714
[14:08] <abogani2> ari-tczew: Because last change (-ubuntu1) is mine.
[14:08] <ari-tczew> aha ok
[14:08] <BlackZ> cody-somerville, ari-tczew: I can proceed with the merge if for you is OK
[14:09] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: so let's go. cody-somerville give me a free hand to take this one so you can take this merge instead me
[14:10] <ari-tczew> I'm going to gym, see you later
[14:37] <gnomefreak> tseliot: is X safe to upgrade now? it has held back packages and it wants to remove some key X packages, at least i think they are key packages
[14:38] <tseliot> gnomefreak: upgrade to what? Lucid?
[14:39] <gnomefreak> tseliot: no in Maverick but its not a Lucid->Maverick it is a full Maverick and it just started yesterday i think
[14:39] <gnomefreak> well it was a Lucid tot Maverick upgrade was a few weeks ago
[14:40] <gnomefreak> s/tot/not
[14:40] <tseliot> "not" or "to"?
[14:41] <gnomefreak> to sorry
[14:41] <tseliot> you might want to ask RAOF if the xserver ABI was bumped. If so, maybe we need to rebuild the nvidia driver
[14:44] <gnomefreak> tseliot: the nvidia drivers dont work for me at all. I installed the drivers from Nvidia. jockey only offered me the 96,173,nvidia-current but i should be offered 185. but either way none of the 3 offered work
[14:45] <tseliot> gnomefreak: "don't work"? No logs?
[14:45] <gnomefreak> i guess he is afk
[14:45] <gnomefreak> tseliot: dropped to low graphics
[14:45] <tseliot> gnomefreak: you can collect the logs from low graphics mode
[14:46] <tseliot> please, do that, then we'll speak again
[14:46] <gnomefreak> tseliot: ok im lookgin atm
[15:02] <gnomefreak> this is taking forever to upload to bug report
[15:02]  * gnomefreak goes for smoke while it does its thing
[15:11] <gnomefreak> tseliot: i updated the bug i filed (sorry forgot the bug) here it is. bug 590571
[15:50] <sim> Finally, I have proceded like this: http://pastebin.org/321552
[15:51] <sim> That's quite dirty... but enough good for me
[16:16] <micahg> if a binary pkg is removed from one source and moved to another w/out a binary, should a bug for a transitional package be in the binary remove request for archive or a separate bug?>
[16:56] <micahg> if a binary pkg is removed from one source and moved to another w/out a binary, should a bug for a transitional package be in the binary remove request for archive or a separate bug?>
[16:56] <ScottK> micahg: I'm not sure I understand the question.
[16:57] <micahg> ScottK: bug 591758
[16:57] <micahg> ScottK: it seems like we need a transitional package as well
[16:57] <ScottK> Looking
[16:59] <geser> for builds the transitional package is not needed and for upgrades in this case neither (who doesn't have coreutils installed)
[17:00] <micahg> geser: he's concerned about FTBFS due to the transition
[17:02] <ScottK> micahg: Is timeout still a separate binary or is it now embedded in an already existing binary package?
[17:04] <geser> timeout is part of "coreutils" now
[17:05] <geser> micahg: it looks like only chromium-browser build-depends on timeout, so it shouldn't be an problem to fix this one package (drop the build-dependency)
[17:05] <micahg> geser: k, he's working on that, ok, good to know there's no other issue
[17:06] <ScottK> micahg: I agree with what geser said.  If it had been a lot of packages, then it might have been useful to have coreutils "Provide: timeout" as a transitional measure, although since versioned provides are supported, that kind of approach is not always completely satisfactory.
[17:07] <micahg> ScottK: k, thanks
[17:09] <geser> micahg: a versioned build-dependency on "coreutils >= 8.0 | timeout" might be in order to make sure a timeout binary is available (or fix the coreutils FTBFS)
[17:09] <micahg> geser: for chromium?
[17:09] <geser> yes
[17:11] <geser> coreutils FTBFS on e.g. armel, and the currently available version doesn't have timeout yet, so on armel the timeout package is still needed until the coreutils FTBFS is fixed
[17:43] <BlackZ> cody-somerville: the xchat merge from the latest debian unstable version is ready, please see bug #591714
[17:51] <xteejx> Hey guys, bug 588301 in lincity-ng/libphysfs...had a look thru the source and version 2.0.0-2 had a symlink added as a patch I think, but it has since been removed
[18:53] <xteejx> Can someone check my debdiff on bug 591847, I think it's ok, also is there any chance this can be done, and am I right in subscribing the Review team?
[18:58] <BlackZ> xteejx: have you did a patch?
[18:59] <xteejx> BlackZ: A debdiff you mean? Yes. Unless you mean a patch to fix the 'problem', then yes I did that too with quilt
[18:59] <xteejx> Took a bit of messing around to learn it, but done :)
[19:00] <BlackZ> xteejx: so if you did a patch attach it too
[19:01] <xteejx> BlackZ: Ok, is that the case even though it's in the debdiff?
[19:01] <BlackZ> and in the changelog entry, start_game_string.patch (LP: #591847) would be enough
[19:01] <BlackZ> (with the description)
[19:01] <BlackZ> xteejx: I'd attach debdiff + patch
[19:01] <xteejx> That is what I have in the changelog... the patch name, close LP bug and description
[19:02] <BlackZ> xteejx: but if you have did the patch you have to include it in the bg
[19:02] <BlackZ> s/bg/bug
[19:02] <xteejx> huh?
[19:02] <xteejx> I re-read it :) Yeah I made the patch, so I'll attach it then :)
[19:03] <BlackZ> xteejx: and fix the changelog
[19:03] <BlackZ> xteejx: * debian/patches/start_game_string.patch: Changes ambiguous "push button to start" to "push CTRL to start" (LP: #591847) would be enough
[19:04] <xteejx> BlackZ: Oh you mean the LP description put it into the changelog?>
[19:04] <BlackZ> xteejx: the debian/changelog file, it should be as I suggested you
[19:04] <xteejx> BlackZ: Ok, I think I understand :) thanks BlackZ
[19:09] <BlackZ> xteejx: also, you have to include the patches in a file tipically called 00list or series in the debian/patches directory
[19:09] <BlackZ> (if it doesn't exist, create it)
[19:09] <xteejx> BlackZ: I updated the series file to include my patch so that it would be applied during build
[19:10] <BlackZ> xteejx: but without the .patch extension
[19:10] <BlackZ> you have to add them without the extension
[19:11] <xteejx> All the rest have extensions in the series file
[19:11] <xteejx> .patch, .diff
[19:12] <xteejx> hence the reason I did the same :S
[19:13] <BlackZ> xteejx: hmmm, so let it
[19:13] <BlackZ> BTW it's not an error!
[19:13] <xteejx> so generally drop the extensions?
[19:14] <BlackZ> xteejx: I'd drop it but that's not required, the patch will work BTW
[19:14] <xteejx> BlackZ: Ok, I'll leave it then to make it look more uniform with the rest, makes sense I suppose :)
[19:15] <BlackZ> xteejx: if they have, let it
[19:15] <xteejx> Ok :)
[19:15] <xteejx> Thanks BlackZ
[20:06] <tonyyarusso> All right, I could use a bit of packaging help if there's anyone around.
[20:07] <geser> what kind of problem do you have?
[20:07] <tonyyarusso> First item of business:  I thought I'd try making a get-orig-source rule.  Upstream doesn't currently version the tarball, nor use a clear name, so it comes as linux-nrpe-agent.tar.gz.  I need that to be something more along the lines of nagios-xi-agent-0.1.orig.tar.gz.
[20:08] <tonyyarusso> Obviously just a mv would change the name of the tarball, but what about the folder it would unpack?  Wouldn't changing the name of that mess up the MD5?
[20:09] <geser> the folder name doesn't matter to which in unpacks as long as it's one folder
[20:11] <tonyyarusso> oh, all righty then
[20:12] <tonyyarusso> Next up:  I'm attempting to do this with debhelper (although I'm not sure if I really need to...), but I don't really understand what all of the different parts do and which ones I actually need.
[20:13] <tonyyarusso> My package is platform independent.  All it does is a) pull in some dependencies, b) copy some perl & shell scripts to a directory created by one of those dependencies, and c) add some config options in /etc and restart a service.
[20:15] <tonyyarusso> geser: Do I need anything at all other than dh_install?
[20:23] <geser> only the common ones
[20:25] <tonyyarusso> such as?  testdir, testroot, clean ?
[21:16] <dupondje> Where can I see packages that arent accepted yet ?
[21:17] <dupondje> xserver-xorg-input-mouse shows newer version then there is in the archive :s
[21:21] <micahg> dupondje: which version?
[21:21] <micahg> (ubuntu)
[21:22] <dupondje> maverick ..
[21:23] <micahg> dupondje: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+queue
[21:23] <dupondje> its not there :P
[21:24] <micahg> dupondje: maybe your mirror?
[21:24] <dupondje> archive.ubuntu.com ... guess its up-to-date :P
[21:24] <micahg> dupondje: amd64 not built yet?
[21:25] <dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-mouse
[21:26] <dupondje> xserver-xorg-input-mouse (1:1.5.0-2)
[21:26] <dupondje> aptitude show gives me: Versie: 1:1.5.0-1
[21:27] <micahg> dupondje: are you on amd64?
[21:27] <dupondje> ye
[21:28] <micahg> hmmm
[21:28] <micahg> should be published now
[21:28] <dupondje> tought also :) its weird
[21:53] <tonyyarusso> What does the .PHONY rules target do?
[21:54] <dutchie> tonyyarusso: it tells make that those rules don't correspond to making an actual file
[21:54] <dutchie> tonyyarusso: i'd recommend reading the documentation for make :)
[22:01] <tonyyarusso> joy
[22:49] <ajmitch> funkyHat: uploaded your mpd merge, sorry for the delay :)
[22:50] <funkyHat> ajmitch: no worries ⢁). Thanks ⡈)
[22:53] <imbrandon> afternoon all
[22:53] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon
[22:54] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[23:13] <imbrandon> so if i bind mount /usr in /etc/fstab will it mount early enough not to cause normal boot issues ?
[23:15] <tonyyarusso> Can I use a get-orig-source rule in such a way as to not even have a source in my directory to begin with?  (ie I have debian/ and nothing else, and the rule should download the rest)
[23:16] <tonyyarusso> If yes I must be confused about how to reference it, because debuild succeeds but pbuilder fails, with a "can not stat file" error later in rules.
[23:21] <ari-tczew> why developers write in debian/changelog only "Resync on Debian" without any informations?
[23:22] <ari-tczew> I saw it in packages uploaded by doko and seb128
[23:23] <sebner> ari-tczew: because they are lazy
[23:24] <ari-tczew> maybe I'll request syncs without explanation?
[23:24] <ajmitch> sure, they'll probably get closed without explanation then
[23:25] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: some packages are too big, too important and maintained only by the handful of developers who are in touch with each other so it's not a problem in these cases and it's much faster to just write * Resync with Debian then to point every delta we still carry over.
[23:26] <ari-tczew> if anyone require abidance, let's require from himself
[23:26] <ari-tczew> s/abidance/rules=policy
[23:27] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: I see that you're not a developer (only PPU for 1 package) and you have answers for all question. congratulations!
[23:28] <ajmitch> ari-tczew: check again, he is in ~ubuntu-dev
[23:28] <ari-tczew> ajmitch: ^^ only PPU for 1 package
[23:29] <ajmitch> so please hold back on the sarcastic responses as well
[23:29] <tonyyarusso> Could someone show me a good example of get-orig-source usage?
[23:30] <ajmitch> tonyyarusso: I don't believe it's meant to be used at build-time, if that's what you're trying to do
[23:30] <ari-tczew> please don't be too much sensitive, I love these such discussions
[23:31] <tonyyarusso> ajmitch: oh.  It's just to save you the trouble of fetching it?
[23:31] <ajmitch> tonyyarusso: yes, from what I've seen of how's it's generally used
[23:32] <tonyyarusso> hrm, ok
[23:33]  * tonyyarusso still has no idea what he's doing, but is getting closer, kinda
[23:39] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: the number of packages I have upload rights too doesn't have much to do with my observation skills nor with my knowledge about the project or policies. If you have asked your question in hope that there is a written policy "canonicaly employees/ubuntu-cure-dev members are allowed not to write as detailed changelog entries as everybody else" then you should rephrase your question and I
[23:39] <kklimonda> would not answer it like that. But your question is an open one so I've decided to answer it to the best of my knowledge.
[23:46] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: in the start I'd like to say that I'm not happy in answer by other language instead our native. I don't attack nobody, but only I said: if anyone require rules, he should require starting from himself.
[23:48] <ari-tczew> I've observed that only from me developers are require some special things and they don't respect me and my work.


 Do you wanna be a gazelle or a bird?
[00:33] <knome> what if i was a trout?
[00:33] <astraljava> ochosi: Sure, we can talk. I'm interested.
[00:34] <ochosi> astraljava: i guess this should also be coordinated with upstream, but i think nick is open for something like that
[00:34] <ochosi> at least when i talked with him about it @fosdem he said that this should go into a separate plugin
[00:34] <ochosi> thing is that i dunno how difficult it is
[00:35] <Unit193> ochosi: Like Win7 has?
[00:35] <astraljava> ochosi: I wouldn't mind, I'm a very upstream-friendly contributor. :D
[00:35] <ochosi> i mean you have to keep a list of the launchers in the dock or something and other than that it's like the window-list
[00:35] <ochosi> Unit193: never used that for real, but yeah, i guess. like win7 and osx and unity...
[00:36] <astraljava> ochosi: Thing is, I'm really busy for a while now, but during the Q cycle, I would be up for it.
[00:36] <ochosi> astraljava: i mean i would guess that you wouldn't need a lot of mockups for that, maybe apart from finding a way to distinguish the launchers, the open/focussed windows and the not-running or not-focussed apps
[00:37] <ochosi> yeah, it should be for Q
[00:37]  * knome would kick all the three legs of ochosi if he proposed that for precise
[00:37] <ochosi> so the time-horizon is a bit more open
[00:37] <knome> mind you, ochosi is a handicapped, old gazelle with one lost leg
[00:37] <ochosi> and also it'd be good to base it on the 4.10 panel
[00:37] <astraljava> ochosi: Sounds good, then.
[00:37] <ochosi> !language | knome
[00:38] <knome> ochosi, you thought 'ochosi' was unprofessional? :(
[00:38] <ochosi> astraljava: yeah, the 4.10 panel will be in Q for sure, so i think that's good timing
[00:38] <ochosi> knome: no, not unprofessional, just not very family-friendly
[00:38] <knome> ahh damn, you might need to change your nick than too
[00:38] <knome> *then
[00:39] <ochosi> no, just never ping me again, problem solved
[00:39] <astraljava> Yea. In fact, never talk to me, again. Done!
[00:39] <knome> hahah... :)
[00:39] <ochosi> :)
[00:39] <knome> great!
[00:39] <knome> looks like the problems in the community are solved now
[00:39] <ochosi> finally i can stop reading chan-logs
[00:39] <ochosi> what problems in the community?
[00:39] <astraljava> Yep. Abandon ship!  :P
[00:40] <ochosi> :)
[00:40] <ochosi> Unit193: +1
[00:40] <astraljava> Is that Unit194, then?
[00:40] <ochosi> lol
[00:40] <ochosi> nice one
[00:40] <knome> hahah
[00:41] <knome> Unit193, i command you to change your nick *immediately* to Unit194
[00:41] <Unit193> Nope, that's locked out.
[00:41] <knome> you can appeal for the IRC council later, now change the nick
[00:42] <knome> ;)
[00:42] <knome> what's the history behind the nick btw?
[00:42] <knome> you live in a unit number 193?
[00:42] <knome> and you refer to your irc nick when you are going home drunk?
[00:42] <Unit194> Nope, it's never been said on IRC.
[00:43] <knome> now that you have the new nick, you can reveal the secret to the old one
[00:44] <ochosi> hihi
[00:44] <Unit194> Howdy, ochosi
[00:44] <knome> Unit194, hmm, you new here? haven't seen your nick before
[00:44] <ochosi> :)
[00:45] <Unit194> Woah, chanact color changed. >_>
[00:45] <knome> MAGIC TECHNOLOGY
[00:45] <ochosi> knome: what do you think of including a web-irc-client on our website? is that even feasible? and if yes, is it a good idea?
[00:45] <knome> ochosi, hmm. what about a link like in the slideshow?
[00:46] <knome> ochosi, that would use freenode's own services
[00:46] <ochosi> knome: i've never clicked that link...
[00:46] <knome> ochosi, hah
[00:46] <knome> wait
[00:46] <ochosi> yeah, something like that, but a xubuntu-header would be nice
[00:46] <ochosi> (to the worst an iframe)
[00:46] <knome> hmm, right...
[00:46] <ochosi> as in: keeping people on our site
[00:47] <knome> iframe could work...
[00:47] <astraljava> knome: I know the story behind it. How much will you pay for the information?
[00:47] <ochosi> like in this quick mockup by someone else (which actually gave me the idea): http://imagebin.org/205898
[00:47] <knome> astraljava, one serving of rum?
[00:47] <knome> :P
[00:47] <astraljava> meh
[00:47] <knome> hehe
[00:47] <knome> ochosi, hmmph..
[00:47] <knome> well
[00:48] <knome> i'm not willing to host a webirc
[00:48] <knome> i mean, maintain one
[00:48] <ochosi> what does the freenode-thing look like
[00:48] <knome> and i don't think IS rejoices...
[00:48] <ochosi> no, sure, that'd be overkill
[00:48] <ochosi> :)
[00:48] <knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/
[00:48] <ochosi> ok
[00:48] <ochosi> let's use that then
[00:48] <ochosi> adding a link like in the slide-show could be the first step
[00:49] <ochosi> i still think integration would be nice
[00:49] <ochosi> even if only via iframe
[00:49] <knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu...&prompt=1
[00:49] <knome> that's the link in the slideshow
[00:49] <knome> note the default filled options
[00:50] <knome> Unit193, long time no see, eh?
[00:50] <knome> :P
[00:50] <ochosi> knome: yeah, that looks good to me
[00:50] <ochosi> knome: provide a way back to our website (apart from the back-button) and we're good
[00:50] <Unit193> knome: You get to explain to the freakies.
[00:51]  * xubuntu671 wonders how well the iframe would work with only 600px width
[00:51] <xubuntu671> ochosi: i thought just iframing it inside the content area ;)
[00:52] <xubuntu671> ochosi: or, we could have a special "irc"-template that would allow to use the xubuntu "frame", but dismiss the sidebar stuff and use that too
[00:52] <ochosi> mhm, maybe an irc template, 600px is not very much
[00:52] <ochosi> even just 200px more would probably make it a lot more readable/convenient
[00:53] <knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_improvements/?page_id=34
[00:54] <ochosi> not bad
[00:54] <xubuntu929> not bad
[00:54] <ochosi> the odd color of the freenode-client kinda conflicts with ours
[00:54] <xubuntu929> the font could be smaller
[00:54] <xubuntu929> i wonder if that's controllable...
[00:54] <ochosi> hmyeah, not sure..
[00:54] <xubuntu929> (not the bg... ;))
[00:54] <ochosi> ah :)
[00:56] <xubuntu854> tbh i think the font-size is ok
[00:56] <Unit193> Clones are attacking...
[00:56] <xubuntu854> also: people can change that with their browser
[00:56] <xubuntu929> imo it's too large for the iframe width
[00:56] <xubuntu854> depends on your browser/dpi settings
[00:56] <xubuntu854> this is what it looks like here: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03302012-025622am.php
[00:57] <knome> thttp://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/irc-chat.png
[00:57] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_shots/irc-chat.png
[00:57] <xubuntu854> i think making it 800px is better than making the font smaller
[00:57] <xubuntu854> (or at least: much smaller)
[00:58] <knome> heh
[00:58] <knome> see the menu in top left
[00:58] <knome> you can recolor the interface
[00:58] <ochosi> yu
[00:59] <ochosi> just found it myself
[00:59] <ochosi> and wanted to tell you
[00:59] <ochosi> but i'm wondering whether we can pass that as an option in the link
[00:59] <knome> afaik we can
[00:59] <ochosi> cool
[01:00] <ochosi> then i don't see any reason why we shouldn't use this
[01:00] <knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&uio=MTE9MTMz98
[01:00] <knome> for example...
[01:01] <ochosi> mm
[01:02] <knome> ochosi, we could access the iframe css with javascript and change the bgcolor to what works for us anyway
[01:02] <knome> hmm, that would mean cross-domain stuff though
[01:02] <knome> ;)
[01:02] <knome> i think we could just add an extra div
[01:02] <knome> with the same bgcolor than the freenode webchat
[01:02] <ochosi> mmh
[01:03] <knome> with some padding
[01:03] <knome> and rounded corners
[01:03] <ochosi> yeah, sounds nice-looking
[01:03]  * knome tries that
[01:04] <ochosi> ok, just finished the new video-mime icon testing
[01:05] <ochosi> time to push that
[01:05] <knome> heh
[01:11] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_improvements/?page_id=34
[01:13] <ochosi> nice
[01:13] <ochosi> if only we could change the title "connect to freenode irc"
[01:14] <knome> i don't think that's possible
[01:14] <ochosi> but i guess adding some more text what this is about i think is sufficient
[01:14] <knome> it would need changing the page name in the wp-admin!!
[01:14] <knome> well yeah
[01:14] <knome> notice that this is my test-host
[01:14] <ochosi> mhm
[01:14] <ochosi> sure, but yeah, i like the whole page as is
[01:14] <knome> it's easy enough to copy that to prodcution too
[01:15] <ochosi> i'm all for it :)
[01:15] <GridCube> i always use webchat from work :P
[01:17] <knome> ochosi, if you want to play with the freenode bar to get the perfect hue... feel free to.
[01:17] <ochosi> i'm on my laptop now (which has terrible colors)...
[01:17] <ochosi> can look at it again when i'm back @eizo tomorrow
[01:17] <knome> ochosi, it's not something you need to do *now*
[01:17] <knome> sure
[01:18] <knome> just paste me the uio-argument you get when completing the "add to your site" -wizard
[01:18] <knome> (if you want to change other things too in the UI options page, feel free to, just notify me of changes)
[01:18] <knome> http://xubuntu.org/irc should work for those who are logged in
[01:19] <knome> bleh, i got hungry :<
[01:29] <ochosi> k, i'm going to sleep
[01:29] <ochosi> see ya
[01:30] <knome> yeah, i got to go too...
[01:30] <knome> nighty all, see you later
[01:30] <Unit193> Adios.
[03:19] <GridCube> knome, :( theres no more boat on the wallpaper
[09:59] <timmillwood> just installed the 12.04 updates, but too busy to reboot.
[10:51] <knome> timmillwood, well, thanks for letting us know...
[11:03] <timmillwood> knome, sorry
[11:39] <ochosi> hmm, i'm wondering whether anyone else can confirm a missing icon of xfce4-clipman in precise
[11:39] <ochosi> because i can't, but i got a report about that
[11:40] <ochosi> (i mean yeah, the icon isn't pretty maybe, but it's there)
[12:24]  * jarnos played youtube in 12.04 and had pavucontrol's output devices tab open on a 500MHz P3. Then pulseaudio takes 50% CPU, pavucontrol 20% CPU and most of the rest power is left for the web browser.
[13:06] <jarnos> Against which package you should file a bug report, when no mobile broadband connections are shown in networks panel applet after an usb mobile connection device is attached?
[13:58] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: i can't confirm the bug with the missing icon for clipman
[13:58] <ochosi> leo-unglaub: it's not a pretty icon, but it's not missing
[16:09] <pleia2> knome: xubuntu.org/contribute/ looks great, and fixed up a couple spelling errors/typos on /contribute/marketing/
[16:09] <pleia2> I'll need more time to finish review of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/XubuntuOld - it's a lot and I need to do a refresher of all the wiki pages
[16:32] <leo-unglaub> ochosi: http://img171.imageshack.us/i/auswahl008.jpg/
[16:43] <mr_pouit> ochosi: it's xfce4-clipman-plugin (for the panel), xfce4-clipman (for the systray) is fine
[16:56] <knome> pleia2, thanks! :)
[18:13] <knome> mr_pouit, okay to upload changes mentioned in bug 969252
[19:10] <xubuntu496> i am running xubuntu 12.04 for a while and now beta2 is available. If all updates are installed, does that mean i also have beta2, or do i have to download beta2?
[19:18] <pleia2> xubuntu496: it means you also have beta2
[19:20] <xubuntu496> Thanks pleia2
[19:20] <astraljava> xubuntu496: Beta-2 only means the revision of the installable images on the cdimage.u.c server. The packages are what counts, and if you're up-to-date with them, you're on the same level with the images.
[19:21] <Unit193> But things break differently with different CDs.
[19:21] <astraljava> Unit193: That's a matter of the assembly of those cds.
[19:24] <Unit193> Generally, yep.
[19:45] <astraljava> goddamn T-bird....
[19:47] <astraljava> So, it just sat there for hours on end, without doing anything. Suddenly, told me about two new emails, and when I wanted to look what they said, it just froze. I was able to close it, but UNABLE to restart it.
[19:47]  * astraljava sometimes wishes he lived in the Dark Ages.
[19:50] <astraljava> Now it just spews out an "input/output error".
[19:50] <astraljava> Sweet.
[19:55] <Pandarific> That definitely sucks. So far I haven't had an issue with T-bird. Everything is working relatively okay. Getting ready to install a bunch of stuff though so we'll see if i break it
[19:55] <Unit193> I use alpine...
[19:57] <micahg> astraljava: you wouldn't have bindwood installed, would you?
[20:02] <Pandarific> can someone verify something for me in 12.04 real quick?
[20:15] <astraljava> $ apt-cache policy bindwood
[20:15] <astraljava> bindwood:
[20:15] <astraljava>   Installed: (none)
[20:16] <astraljava> Incredibly unbelievable. Now there are some *-1 directories in my various gmail accounts.


[15:40] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +4698 cases (now 1.5 million), +102 deaths (now 25729) since 16 hours ago


[00:03] <bogus-> hate it as a music player ;)
[00:13] <pfein> bogus-: better suggestion?
[00:13] <pfein> (this is on an old laptop)
[00:46] <HappyHater> is there a way to specify aspect ratio with mythtranscode?
[00:47] <HappyHater> it keeps spitting everything out at 16/9, the original is 4/3
[01:25] <gumpert345> hi I have a sru960 remote Id like to use with my mythbuntu box, what IR receiver should I buy for the PC? Does someone know a howto for setting up lirc?
[01:26] <jeff__> hi guys. I'm trying to set up mythbuntu (well, I'm in the install now). I have sound, video acceleration, but I'm having trouble with my tv tuner. I know it's supposed, it sort of half worked with mythdora.
[01:33] <Kraln> oops.
[01:33] <Kraln> my bad. so, I've just installed the firmware for my hvr-1600, we'll see how that goes.
[02:12] <Kraln> er, hvr-1800
[02:18] <Kraln> I have video now, but it's pink/green
[03:09] <croppa> my  mythtv box has been working perfectly up till tonight
[03:10] <croppa> now it will not record anything
[03:10] <croppa> I am at a loss to know where to start looking
[03:10] <croppa> I cannot schedual (?) a recording either
[03:10] <croppa> however all the old recordings are there to watch
[03:10] <croppa> Also if i press R during live tv it will record
[03:47] <yellowking> I was looking through the 8.10 installation guide, and on pg 13 it says the Hauppauge HVR-1600 does not work (no driver).  Is that out of date?  Based on general mythtv info, I was looking at an HVR-1600 1183...
[04:22] <tgm4883> !logs | croppa
[04:22] <Zinn> croppa: MythTV logs are stored in /var/log/mythtv/   You can use mythbuntu-log-grabber from the Applications menu to automatically post the most relevant logs to our pastebin.
[04:22] <tgm4883> yellowking, that info is at least 6 months old
[04:27] <croppa> Thanks tgm4883 and Zinn , mysqlcheck --auto-repair -A -u mythtv -pmysqlpass (Where mysqlpass is the database password) fixed the problem
[04:28] <croppa> Reading the logs also helped :-)
[04:43] <rhpot1991> yellowking: I think the issue is that it doesn't work out of the box
[04:43] <rhpot1991> there are also a few different versions of it, which causes some confusion.
[04:43] <rhpot1991> with a little time an effort it should be usable, double check with google that specific version
[04:45] <yellowking> Cool, thanks guys.
[04:56] <Zanthus> hi everybody
[04:56] <Zanthus> I've got a question about mythbuntu
[04:57] <Zanthus> I'm using mythbuntu 8.10 and the main partition which has the OS, the GUI and the programs installed on it somehow has no free space left
[04:57] <Zanthus> the other partitions for swap and recordings both have lots of space free
[04:58] <Zanthus> is there any maintenance procedures that I should be doing to ensure that the main partition (the one with the OS and the apps) doesn't fill up?
[04:58] <Zanthus> *are
[07:33] <Kraln> seems my hvr-1800 is not supported =.
[07:35] <Kraln> back to windows xp mce for me
[08:01] <foxbuntu> Kraln, enjoy windows, perhaps their paid support and crashing software is best for you
[14:42] <Aquahallic> Mornin' folks
[14:42] <Aquahallic> trash can keeps filling up when deleting movies... is there a way to bypass the trashcan?
[16:53] <schlazor> rm


[08:16] <TLE> dpm: hey, any word from pitti?
[08:16] <TLE> and good morning
[08:21] <dpm> TLE, hey, morning, not yet, no. I sent him an e-mail yesterday night, as I couldn't catch him for a chat
[08:21] <TLE> dpm: let me know when you have something
[08:21] <dpm> TLE, ok, thanks for your help on this!
[08:22] <TLE> np
[08:23] <TLE> dpm: since a few teams have already tested the pang packs currently in the ppa, it is probably better if it is those that we puch to -proposed
[08:25] <dpm> TLE, yeah, that's the idea
[08:26] <TLE> ok, I just thought I would mention it, since if pitti is not made aware of it, he might just take the new ones that will be built really soon
[10:13] <andrejz> thanks for adding me in the team dpm, i wll try to contribute my share to success of ubuntu translations
[10:13] <dpm> \o/
[10:14] <dpm> excellent, thanks andrejz :)
[10:24] <TLE> congrats
[10:25] <TLE> ehh what team? *G*
[10:26] <TLE> ahh reading email ;)
[10:27] <TLE> Congratulations
[10:30] <TLE> dpm: btw, I was just reading that specification earlier. Does it concern only Ubuntu translations (which it says) or LP translations in general?
[10:33] <dpm> TLE, the spec is only for Ubuntu Translations, to ensure that we've got a healthy and self-sustainable project in which leadership is distributed, especially this cycle where I'll be spending less time on translations. Of course, it would be great to grow a developer community around Launchpad Translations, but that's out of scope for that particular spec.
[10:35] <TLE> ah ok, well I must say that I think this may be a little bit premature, at least as far as diverting you somewhat away from the effort, there is still much to do ;)
[10:38] <dpm> I know, I know :) We've got _a lot_ to do, but I'm really happy about how the translations community has evolved in the last couple of years
[10:39] <andrejz> so is there going to be a translators council (an equivalent of community council) ?
[10:39] <andrejz> i might be a bit late to the 15.00 session, unfortunately
[10:40] <RawChid> Hi, does anyone know where Xubuntu gets translated? The website says Launchpad, but I can't find where
[10:40] <RawChid> I want to help to get upstream translations from XFCE into Xubuntu
[10:41] <TLE> dpm: Well. It's just I think translations had, for some been before you were dedicated to the task, been sort of a second class citizen in terms of resources. And now that we have a person dedicated to it and with that a direct connection to developers and so on, I would really dislike going back :)
[10:44] <dpm> andrejz, I don't think we need a council for translations. Governance can be done either at the ubuntu-translators ML or through the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team
[10:45] <TLE> Besides, I think one persons salery (whatever that is) is a bargin for having good translations and a well running cummunity. But I sometimes get the idea that canonical don't quite agree
[10:45] <dpm> andrejz, one thing I forgot to mention is that after joining the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team you'll be automatically subscribed to bugs in the ubuntu-translations project. So you might want to set up some filters on your inbox
[10:46] <TLE> andrejz: yeah and you will also be tasked with baking cake and distributing it to the community every once in a while ;)
[10:46] <TLE> I like muffins
[10:49] <RawChid> Hmmmm... muffinnss...
[10:49] <RawChid> Nobody an idea about Xubuntu?
[10:51] <TLE> RawChid: hmm
[10:52] <TLE> RawChid: XFCE of xubuntu specifically?
[10:52] <RawChid> 11:40:35 < RawChid> I want to help to get upstream translations from XFCE into Xubuntu
[10:53] <RawChid> There is some work done on XFCE, so it would be nice to get that into Xubuntu
[10:54] <RawChid> The only thing I can find is source code, for example: https://code.launchpad.net/xfconf
[10:54] <TLE> I think upsteam work is automatically pulled into Xubuntu
[10:55] <RawChid> Hmm
[10:55] <RawChid> Yes, I guess so
[10:55] <TLE> I don't know if xubuntu devs make changes to the packages that require translation updates, like ubuntu dev does, but I don't think so
[10:55] <TLE> so I think the best to contribute is upstream
[10:57] <RawChid> Oke, thanx
[10:59] <dpm> RawChid, xubuntu is in the universe repository, so it's not translatable in Launchpad, unless they set up an upstream project there
[10:59] <Claudinux> hello, how upstream translations (e.g. from Translation Project) are loaded in ubuntu? I ask that because I upload the new translation of xchat  a year ago, but it's not yet included in ubuntu
[11:03] <TLE> afk lunch
[13:58] <yurchor> RawChid: Have you already found Xfce transifex server?
[13:58] <RawChid> Yes, I already solved it
[13:59] <RawChid> The translations are just pulled from transifex,
[13:59] <yurchor> Ok. Just read the logs and want to help. ;)
[13:59] <RawChid> translations are done upstream exclusively
[14:00] <RawChid> Thanks anyhow ;)
[14:00] <yurchor> Yes.
[14:00] <yurchor> np. ;)
[14:01] <artnay> wow, xfce using transifex
[14:01] <artnay> didn't know that
[14:01] <artnay> at least they didn't choose pootle ;-)
[14:01] <andrejz> has the session started yet?
[14:01] <TLE> andrejz: nope
[14:02] <andrejz> good :)
[14:04] <RawChid> Not yet
[15:12] <hannie> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-o-community-o-sustainable-translations
[15:12] <hannie> Where do I dind the irc channel of this session?
[15:12] <hannie> *find
[15:13] <TLE_Kenneth> hannie: just missed it
[15:13] <hannie> oh? Finished already?
[15:13] <TLE_Kenneth> it was exactly one hour ago in #ubutu-uds-krudy
[15:14] <TLE_Kenneth> sorry
[15:14] <hannie> ok, I thought it was at 15:00 utc
[15:14] <hannie> my mistake
[15:14] <TLE_Kenneth> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-sustainable-translations/
[15:14] <TLE_Kenneth> here are some notes from the meeting
[15:14] <hannie> thanks
[15:14] <TLE_Kenneth> and I guess you can also find IRC log online
[15:15] <hannie> right
[15:15] <TLE_Kenneth> we talked about how the community can take over some of David Planellas tasks and we also assigned some people for some of the tasks
[15:15] <TLE_Kenneth> but don't worry, we saved a few tasks for you ;)
[15:15] <hannie> ok, sorry I missed it though
[15:16] <TLE_Kenneth> yeah I know
[15:16] <hannie> Hope we can keep in touch via the mailing list
[15:17] <TLE_Kenneth> I'm just kidding about the tasks, but seriously if you were interested in helping out with something, I'm sure something will be communicated out seen
[15:18] <TLE_Kenneth> err: out soon
[15:18] <hannie> good old mailing list ;)
[15:18] <TLE_Kenneth> hannie: yep
[15:18] <hannie> see you, and thak you for your information
[15:18] <hannie> *thank
[15:18] <TLE_Kenneth> no probelm
[15:18] <TLE_Kenneth> dpm: hey
[15:19] <dpm> hey TLE_Kenneth
[15:19] <TLE_Kenneth> gotta change back it looks wierd
[15:19] <hannie> dpm, I just missed the session, but I hope you keep us informed through the list
[15:19] <dpm> hi back TLE :)
[15:20] <dpm> hannie, sure, I will do, don't worry. In the meantime here are the notes:
[15:20] <TLE> dpm: two things, any word from pitti? And can I apply to become member or the coordination group somehow
[15:20] <hannie> I just got them from TLE and will go through them
[15:21] <dpm> hannie, ah, cool, and  sorry for not having replied to your last e-mail, it's been a bit hectic here pre-UDS and while at UDS
[15:21] <hannie> no problem at all
[15:21] <dpm> hannie, we've had Dutch representation here too! :)
[15:21] <hannie> hope you enjoy the meeting
[15:22] <dpm> yeah, it was a really productive session
[15:22] <hannie> dpm, yes, I saw the name of one of my collegues
[15:22] <dpm> hannie, yeah, he told me you're doing an awesome job, btw :)
[15:22] <hannie> so does he ;)
[15:23] <hannie> and what you are doing for the community is beyond believe
[15:23] <dpm> TLE, 1) not yet, if he's busy we might have to wait post-UDS 2) Absolutely, let me send you an e-mail and follow the same process as with andrejz
[15:23] <TLE> I just lived in Leiden for a month, and made short trips to Ütrect (among other things), beatiful cities
[15:24] <hannie> TLE, glad you saw something else than Amsterdam
[15:24] <dpm> hannie, oh, thanks - it's easy to do good work when backed by an awesome community :)
[15:24] <hannie> ok guys, see you around. And have a nice stay there. Not too much beer
[15:25] <TLE> dpm: actually maybe 3 things, could you select some appropriate wikispace where we could document tasks and assignees and so on?
[15:27] <dpm> TLE, good point. Let me put an action item for me to do this on the notes...
[15:28] <TLE> dpm: you know, select the page name and put in a rough structure, then we should be able to help with filling in information
[15:40] <dpm> TLE, if you'd like to start right now so that I'm not blocking it, we could perhaps use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/SustainableTranslationsTasks. I haven't set up the structure yet, but I've put an action item on me on the notes
[15:41] <TLE> dpm: sure, not sure if I'll start right now, but there are a few things that I need to get written down soon anyway
[15:41] <dpm> TLE, cool, yeah, whichever way works best for you
[15:42] <dpm> hey seeing how folks have jumped in to help with tasks really shows what an awesome translations community we've got
[15:44] <TLE> yeah, just make sure to tell Mark not to cut your time any more ;) some tasks still require people with a more than sparetime
[15:46] <dpm> TLE, I know, I'm often using spare time myself :)
[15:46] <dpm> TLE, what's your LP id?
[15:47] <dpm> and to be clear, the translations time will not be cut by more than 50% (50% translations / 50% app developer community)
[15:49] <dpm> no worries, I found it
[18:53] <C1sM0> join #ubuntu-beginners


[07:29] <tsdgeos> why am i still marked as away...
[07:29] <tsdgeos> oh, not aynmore
[07:29] <tsdgeos> good
[07:29] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ping
[07:34] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: ping
[07:36] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, pong in ~5 minutes (otp)
[07:43] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: do you know how the spec specifies headerless categories?
[07:52] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, nope, I don't
[07:52] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: because in that two_scopes you "cheat" by giving the second category the same name as the previous
[07:52] <tsdgeos> and that makes lvwph give you a headerless category
[07:53] <tsdgeos> but not sure that's the way
[07:53] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, uh, whaat? yeah, name is the same, but id should be used to distinguish them... but I realize this is a limitation of lvwph
[07:54] <Saviq> tsdgeos, pong
[07:54] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, and the ids don't really matter at the lvwph level..
[07:54] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: it's not a limitation, it's a design decision, two categories the second doesn't have a header if they share title
[07:54] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: because it's basically what QML ListView does
[07:54] <tsdgeos> Saviq: headerless categories
[07:54] <tsdgeos> how does one specify one?
[07:56] <tsdgeos> Saviq: empty category name?
[07:58] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah
[07:59] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ok, that's new to lvwph, i'll add that, then there's the question, in lvwph we decided that two consecutive "same category name" yields the second category with no header, do we care about that at the GenericScopeView.qml (regarding adding the top margin to the category contents) or asume it won't happen?
[07:59] <Saviq> tsdgeos, if that's a problem, we might make it explicit
[07:59] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I forgot that the sections work like this
[08:00] <tsdgeos> it's not a problem, it's just that i will need to add more code to support "empty because is the same name" headers since at the moment there's no way for a category to know if it has section or not
[08:01] <tsdgeos> so i can either have
[08:01] <tsdgeos>      topMargin: name != "" ? 0 : units.gu(2)
[08:01] <tsdgeos> or
[08:01] <tsdgeos>     topMargin: hasSectionHader ? 0 : units.gu(2)
[08:01] <tsdgeos> but then i have to add hasSectionHader code to LVWPH
[08:02] <tsdgeos> shouldn't be hard, but it's more code :D
[08:02] <Saviq> tsdgeos, whichever way you prefer
[08:02] <tsdgeos> ok, let me check how hard hasSectionHader is
[08:02] <tsdgeos> always better to do it "properly"
[08:06] <Saviq> mzanetti, seen cwayne's email? able to reproduce?
[08:06] <mzanetti> Saviq: yep, seen it. still replying to mails. That one will be next
[08:06] <Saviq> mzanetti, kk thanks
[08:12] <pstolowski> Saviq, any thoughts about http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7588500/ ? ok to make it on per-category level?
[08:13] <Saviq> pstolowski, yeah missed you yesterday
[08:13] <Saviq> pstolowski, I think that's good
[08:13] <Saviq> pstolowski, you should stick to either "tap" or "click" though
[08:13] <Saviq> pstolowski, 'cause you're setting tap behaviours using ClickBehaviour ;)
[08:19] <pstolowski> Saviq, yeah, i had a problem with naming ;)
[08:20] <pstolowski> Saviq, in the absence of mhr3, I think I'll also take care of the plugin branch for that
[08:25] <Saviq> pstolowski, kk
[08:26] <Saviq> pstolowski, you'll need to adapt http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity-api/trunk/view/head:/include/unity/shell/scopes/CategoriesInterface.h too
[08:26] <pstolowski> Saviq, ah, ok, didn't know that, thanks
[08:27] <Saviq> pstolowski, tsdgeos, do you think we should make headerless explicit? as in explicitly set in the scope (as opposed to empty name, which is a bit of a hack)?
[08:27] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i think empty name is fine
[08:27] <Saviq> kk
[08:27] <tsdgeos> i mean if you have an empty name it will look ugly as hell
[08:27] <tsdgeos> with the expansion pattern there
[08:27] <tsdgeos> but nothing else
[08:27] <pstolowski> +1 to what tsdgeos says
[08:28] <Saviq> +1
[08:38] <mzanetti> Saviq: Re: Applications are orphaned when unity8 crashes
[08:38] <mzanetti> iirc in Oakland Mir people said it wouldn't be a problem for an app to reconnect to a new Mir server instance
[08:40] <Saviq> mzanetti, yeah, I remember that too, except that never happened ;)
[08:40] <mzanetti> Saviq: heh, true. But in any case, sounds doable and probably what we should go for.
[08:40] <Saviq> mzanetti, and then unity-mir would have to pick the running apps back up (not saying impossible)
[08:41] <mzanetti> yep. unity-mir needs fixing too for that
[08:41] <Saviq> mzanetti, for touch it's simple, later when we introduce windowing, that will get interesting when we try to restore window locations :)
[08:42] <mzanetti> Saviq: without having spend much time in thinking about it, it would seem they just need to be placed at the same place they were left
[08:42] <Saviq> mzanetti, *just* is the key word here
[08:42] <mzanetti> hehe
[08:42] <Saviq> mzanetti, when the windows don't know where they were
[08:42] <Saviq> mzanetti, and the compositor just crashed ;)
[08:43] <mzanetti> right... we'd need to persist every x/y/w/h change immediately
[08:46] <tsdgeos> Saviq: pstolowski|bbl: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/headerless_category_margin/+merge/222132
[08:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, looking good
[08:50] <tsdgeos> hmmmm
[08:50] <tsdgeos> Saviq: just realized we can't expand headerless categoriies anymore
[08:50] <tsdgeos> Saviq: that's fine i guess D:
[08:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, indeed ;)
[08:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, well TBH we'll see where this goes, the header probably won't be the expander for long
[08:51] <tsdgeos> correct
[08:55] <tsdgeos> Saviq: so what's happening in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/176949684/aligment_issue.png is that the cardtool is "mandating" 5 rows of summary, but since there's only 3 in that particular card, spacing looks wrong
[08:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, right, of course
[08:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, they should use horizontal journal...
[08:56] <Saviq> if we had integrated it...
[08:56] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i guess we should special case for when it's 1 column and then "ignore" the summary max height?
[08:56] <tsdgeos> i.e. we obey the max height of summary so that in a grid it doesn't look bad, but here it's essentially a column, not a grid
[08:57] <tsdgeos> Saviq: it'd be the same problem with the cardtool giving us the wrong height, no?
[08:57] <Saviq> tsdgeos, *or* we'd need an adaptive grid that changes row height based on each row's delegates
[08:58] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah, but it's not (meant to be) enforced in vjournal
[08:58] <Saviq> what you wrote may be the best for now (ignoring height if rows == 1)
[08:59] <Saviq> it won't break tablet and will help this use case
[08:59] <Saviq> with a FIXME
[08:59] <Saviq> tsdgeos, basically, vJournal was exactly meant for different-height delegates
[09:00] <Saviq> tsdgeos, or well, integrating vJournal would get us closer to where we want to be, so...
[09:00] <tsdgeos> right
[09:00] <Saviq> there's a branch from karni somewhere
[09:00] <tsdgeos> yes
[09:00] <tsdgeos> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/new-scopes-vj-integration/+merge/214786
[09:00] <Saviq> we could try and revive this (I know it never worked for him, though...)
[09:01] <tsdgeos> yeah should not be "that hard"
[09:01] <tsdgeos> ok, let me have a look at it
[09:01] <Saviq> let's try that
[09:01] <tsdgeos> i guess it was just hard for him because he was just dropped in the trenches of VJ, QML, Dash, GSV, etc
[09:02] <Saviq> yeah
[09:02] <Saviq> if he got RVJ working
[09:02] <Saviq> then putting it in GSV should be mostly trivial
[09:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and we really need to get rid of FilterGrid, it just makes everything more complicated
[09:05] <Saviq> like the "let's sync height expansion between lvwph and lv"
[09:05] <Saviq> which could just be driven internally by lvwph instead
[09:05] <tsdgeos> yeah
[09:06] <Saviq> but yeah, not right now
[09:07] <Saviq> tsdgeos, btw, ignoring height wouldn't work anyway
[09:07] <Saviq> tsdgeos, GV has static row height
[09:07] <Saviq> we'd need a custom GV that didn't
[09:07] <tsdgeos> yeah i realized that
[09:07] <tsdgeos> we're using a GridView
[09:07] <tsdgeos> so it'll be Grid anyway
[09:07] <Saviq> yup
[09:14] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i'll kill https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/new-scopes-vj-integration/+merge/214786 anyway, since it's for merging into new-scopes
[09:14] <tsdgeos> and create something based on it for trunk
[09:14] <Saviq> tsdgeos, of course, yeah
[09:15] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I know why your result on https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1326397 was different
[09:15] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it looks like they didn't commit something
[09:15] <tsdgeos> may be
[09:15] <tsdgeos> i mean the code wasn't even original compiling :D
[09:16] <Saviq> yeah I saw
[09:16] <tsdgeos> have they updated it?
[09:16] <Saviq> tsdgeos, people seem to be abusing fill-mode
[09:16] <Saviq> tsdgeos, no, I just did what you did
[09:16] <Saviq> and checked it out in the tool
[09:16] <Saviq> and got it into a ~working state
[09:16] <Saviq> but it's not great, but per-spec
[09:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, they were (as people seem to do) abusing fill-mode: fitr
[09:17] <Saviq> -r
[09:17] <Saviq> or well, we're not dealing well with that in horizontal mode
[09:18] <tsdgeos> abusing API is the programmers life :D
[09:18] <tsdgeos> "you don't let me do that, eh? let's see if i can force you to"
[09:25] <Saviq> ;)
[09:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/176990434/Zrzut%20ekranu%20z%202014-06-05%2011%3A23%3A53.png is what I got
[09:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and I *think* it's our bug
[09:25] <Saviq> well, I'm quite sure it is
[09:25] <Saviq> not sure what it results from, though
[09:26] <tsdgeos> hmmm
[09:26] <tsdgeos> second one looks good enough
[09:26] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah, sure
[09:26] <tsdgeos> i'm confused as why my result looks so wildly different from yours :S
[09:26] <Saviq> tsdgeos, because https://launchpadlibrarian.net/176990395/rsslocal.patch
[09:27] <tsdgeos> ah
[09:27] <tsdgeos> :D
[09:27] <Saviq> ;)
[09:27] <tsdgeos> i guess it shouldn't be too hard fixing it
[09:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, diff between the two is 2 vs. 1 line title, and we seem to be forcing the height "the wrong way"
[09:27] <tsdgeos> but you still have the vertical spacing problem
[09:27] <tsdgeos> well
[09:27] <Saviq> oh yeah, that's only gonna be fixed with vj
[09:28] <tsdgeos> the art/mascot image
[09:28] <Saviq> [...] header → art instead of art → header
[09:28] <tsdgeos> is forced to the title height
[09:28] <Saviq> art, not mascot
[09:28] <tsdgeos> no, that's correct for horizontal
[09:28]  * Saviq not sure
[09:28] <tsdgeos> it's just that the first should remember it can have two lines
[09:28] <tsdgeos> and not one how it has now
[09:28] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ah
[09:28] <tsdgeos> well it's correct as per what we had :D
[09:28] <Saviq> tsdgeos, sure, that might be why indeed
[09:29] <tsdgeos> so there's some playing with it
[09:29] <tsdgeos> but should be fixable
[09:29] <Saviq> yeah, it's better already
[09:29] <Saviq> tsdgeos, in any case we'll need to look into abuses, too, at some point ;)
[09:29] <tsdgeos> sure
[09:29]  * Saviq can't see that happening in the near future...
[09:29] <tsdgeos> is it me or the canonical irc server is experiencing issues?
[09:29] <tsdgeos> i get kicked out of it a lot today
[09:30] <Saviq> tsdgeos, hmm nope
[09:30] <Saviq> seems legit for m
[09:30] <Saviq> e
[09:31] <tsdgeos> :/
[09:31] <Saviq> I'm behind a bouncer, but should be notified about disconnections in any case
[09:37] <Saviq> ohkay, that's bad
[09:37] <Saviq> wth
[09:59] <tsdgeos> we broke tryOrganicGrid, tryVerticalJournal and tryHorizontalJournal when going to displayMargin :/
[09:59]  * tsdgeos fixes
[10:08] <Saviq> tsdgeos, oups
[10:09] <Saviq> tsdgeos, TBH, when you're at it... maybe just integrate all of them at once? it should be copy/paste for the most part?
[10:10] <tsdgeos> yeah
[11:09] <Saviq> greyback, there a reason why ubuntu-touch-meta is still older in the PPA than in distro?
[11:09] <Saviq> and if not, should we just drop it from there?
[11:09] <greyback> Saviq: it's a custom one I pushed. Then distro bumped theirs. We're still on image 58, so it's not impacting us
[11:10] <Saviq> greyback, oh ok
[11:10] <Saviq> greyback, it *might* impact us still if cwayne wants to build an image with the PPA... not sure what his plan is there
[11:11] <greyback> Saviq: will check with him
[11:11] <Saviq> greyback, kthxbai
[11:33] <Saviq> /fodo
[11:33] <Saviq> hm?
[11:41] <tsdgeos> Saviq: :/
[11:41] <tsdgeos> Saviq: there's a not so good think about VJ
[11:41] <tsdgeos> height is randomly limited at 35gu of height per design
[11:41] <tsdgeos> resulting in cut text
[11:41] <tsdgeos> which is awful
[11:42] <tsdgeos> i.e. the end of http://imgur.com/Ae68nDR
[11:43] <tsdgeos> not sure how we can fix that tbh
[11:51] <tsdgeos> or even worse
[11:51] <tsdgeos> this one
[11:51] <tsdgeos> http://i.imgur.com/crhA6Hs.png
[11:52] <tsdgeos> food
[11:58] <Saviq> tsdgeos, that's fine, we're talking with Mike today about this, we'll fix it
[11:58] <Saviq> tsdgeos, plan was to add a shadow or something
[12:54] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ok
[12:57] <tsdgeos> Mirv: have you seen the patch that is supposed to fix the crash in javascript 5.3 arm crash?
[13:06] <Mirv> tsdgeos: seen yes, got e-mail 45min ago. tested/done not yet.
[13:06] <tsdgeos> Mirv: cool :)
[13:06] <Mirv> (plus I need to leave now for today)
[13:06] <Mirv> but hopefully it'll solve it, there's no end of possible places it could be in use even if webbrowser and UITK are now fixed
[13:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i can't find in vertical-journal where the number of columns comes in
[13:43] <tsdgeos> don't we have a variable for that?
[13:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you mean *into* vj?
[13:49] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yeah
[13:49] <tsdgeos> how many columns vj has to have
[13:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, that's dynamic based on card size
[13:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, that's what ResponsiveFoo does
[13:51] <tsdgeos> Saviq: hmmmm
[13:51] <tsdgeos> but the card size is based on the column width :D
[13:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, no, the other way around
[13:51] <tsdgeos> it's a bit recursive, no?
[13:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, card size is small, medium, large
[13:51] <tsdgeos> ah right
[13:51] <Saviq> that directly corresponds to GU
[13:52] <tsdgeos> got confused
[13:52] <tsdgeos> so if you get https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/dashviews_integration/+merge/222192 and change victor's code to be a vertical-journal
[13:52] <tsdgeos> should work
[13:52] <tsdgeos> it's working for me
[13:52] <tsdgeos> with the said cutting problems
[13:53] <tsdgeos> there's an interesting bootstrapping problem in the height of the thing
[13:53] <tsdgeos> wonder if that's were karni got stuck
[13:53] <tsdgeos> the rest of the code was mostly fine
[13:53] <tedg> ci-eng is busy
[13:53] <karni> tsdgeos: ^ ^
[13:53] <tedg> Saviq, So do you think that the autopilot-legacy stuff is the issue? The whole thing seems weird.
[13:54] <karni> glad to hear it. tsdgeos, I don't recall what stopped me there. but I recall the codebase was new to me at the time as well.
[13:55] <Saviq> tedg, it definitely is weird, and I'm not sure what's happening, I only really know it's ual + url-dispatcher that, upgraded, 'cause this to happen
[13:55] <Saviq> I didn't have the time to dig more
[13:57] <tedg> Saviq, What's a reasonable way to test what autopilot is doing to setup unity8? Can I just start it from the command line?
[13:57] <Saviq> tedg, that's even more interesting... it runs it via upstart
[13:57] <Saviq> tedg, tweaking a bit of env
[13:59] <tedg> So I don't see an XDG_DATA_DIRS in my global environment just normally.
[13:59] <tedg> So it seems Unity8 can handle that case.
[14:01] <Saviq> let me try and get a diff between a working and a broken env
[14:01] <tsdgeos> Saviq: the current ResponsiveVerticalJournal has a maximumNumberOfColumns property
[14:02] <tsdgeos> but we don't really need it, do we?
[14:02] <tsdgeos> maximumNumberOfColumns should just be infinite
[14:02] <Saviq> tsdgeos, not *really*, we have it in RGV
[14:02] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but that's more general purpose
[14:02] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so I'm fine without it
[14:03] <tsdgeos> i mean you can just set more spacing and stuff if you want fewer columns et al
[14:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yes, I agree, RGV just lets you set up more to your liking, but it was a more gen-pop type of thing
[14:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and karni (rightly so) just copied the API
[14:04] <tsdgeos> sure, not "blaming" anyone
[14:04] <tsdgeos> just thinking if we need it or not
[14:05] <Saviq> tedg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7595031/
[14:08] <Saviq> tedg, might it be that us overriding XDG_DATA_DIRS causes havoc? (it worked fine a long time)
[14:08] <tedg> Saviq, I bet it's assuming /usr/share/ for XDG_DATA_DIRS unless set. When set, it needs to have the base.
[14:08] <Saviq> tedg, yeah, we had that for a long time now...
[14:08] <tedg> Also a bit odd about the LD_LIBRARY_PATH, do you guys use any Android compat?
[14:08] <Saviq> tedg, nah, those are liblightdm mocks
[14:08] <tedg> Or is that all through Mir?
[14:09] <Saviq> tedg, or you mean the original ones?
[14:09] <Saviq> tedg, not sure where those come from
[14:09] <tedg> Saviq, Seems like that it should include the original ones, plus the others.
[14:09] <tedg> But that's probably not our issue right now.
[14:09] <tedg> Grep'ing autopilot there's no XDG_DATA_DIRS
[14:09] <tedg> Where should I be looking for the setter there?
[14:10] <Saviq> tedg, it's in unity8's suite
[14:10] <tedg> Saviq, I think the issue is probably with the split greeter fixes, I bet the Xsession stuff was setting the var.
[14:10] <tedg> So by removing that we ended up in a different place.
[14:11] <Saviq> tedg, but was that in url-dispatcher / UAL?
[14:11] <tedg> Saviq, No, guessing overlapping landings.
[14:11] <Saviq> tedg, but hear me out again... I can upgrade everything, and everything's fine until I upgrade url-d / UAL
[14:11] <Saviq> and yes, I know it doesn't make sense
[14:12] <Saviq> tedg, but you are right
[14:12] <Saviq> tedg, if I add /usr/share at the end
[14:13] <Saviq> tedg, the problem is gone
[14:13] <tedg> Woot! :-)
[14:13] <Saviq> *HOW* url-d / UAL causes it, you tell me
[14:13] <tedg> Not sure why that'd be the case.
[14:13] <tedg> Do you want me to prepare a patch?
[14:13] <Saviq> tedg, no, I'm on it
[14:14] <tedg> Saviq, Cool, thanks!
[14:14] <Saviq> oh yay, and eclipse doesn't start :|
[14:19] <tedg> eclipse --force-start
[14:21] <mterry> Saviq, I was looking at memory usage of unity8 when apps are open, and it was consuming enormous amounts of memory per app (like 10-20MB).  That's surely not right?
[14:21] <Saviq> mterry, screenshots
[14:22] <Saviq> mterry, and sure, that's not right, but explainable atm
[14:22] <mterry> Saviq, because we take full screen images?  Hrm
[14:23] <Saviq> mterry, and we're probably even more wasteful (like keeping a copy or so)
[14:23] <Saviq> mterry, so, yes, we need to fix that
[14:24] <mterry> Saviq, do we need the full screen image for anything but the thumbnail?  Seems like we could optimize that image a bunch if not
[14:25] <Saviq> mterry, right edge
[14:26] <Saviq> mterry, thumbnail is going away real soon
[14:26] <Saviq> mterry, but then
[14:26] <Saviq> mterry, with QtComp we'll only load screenshots if there's no surface from the app
[14:26] <Saviq> mterry, so it should get better already
[14:27] <tsdgeos> Saviq: so the question now is, do i do HJournal and oGrid in the same branch or in a dependant branch so that in case we want to merge VJournal first it's easier to review?
[14:33] <Saviq> tsdgeos, make it sep MPs then
[14:47] <Saviq> huh... 14" Chromebook... quite (oxy)moronic if you ask me...
[14:57] <tsdgeos> \o/ sane branch naming in Qt
[15:03] <tedg> Saviq, So is dash going to become its own process?
[15:03] <Saviq> tedg, yes
[15:03] <Saviq> tedg, soon
[15:03] <tedg> Saviq, Okay, so a trusted session for pay should be over the dash PID then?
[15:03] <Saviq> tsdgeos, where where?
[15:04] <Saviq> tedg, yup
[15:04] <tsdgeos> 5.3.1 => refs/for/5.3 (for now, refs/for/5.3.1 when it's available)
[15:04] <tsdgeos> 5.3.2 => refs/for/5.3 (after the 5.3.1 branch is created and 5.3 bumped)
[15:04] <tsdgeos> 5.4.0 => refs/for/dev
[15:04] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ↑↑
[15:04] <tedg> Saviq, Will it be it's own upstart job? Looking for how to get the PID.
[15:04] <Saviq> tedg, yes
[15:04] <tsdgeos> Saviq: so now it's either dev for "whatever is next" or branch name with version number
[15:04] <tsdgeos> instead of release, stable, dev
[15:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yay
[15:06] <Saviq> tedg, do you have another question to which I could reply with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZToP48Mrp8&feature=youtu.be&t=9s
[15:10] <tedg> Saviq, Is the weather in London cloudy all the time?
[15:10] <tedg> :-)
[15:11] <Saviq> tedg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZToP48Mrp8&feature=youtu.be&t=13s
[15:12] <tedg> heh
[15:13] <tsdgeos> Saviq: Horizontal Journal: "Only over 60 GU device, on smaller devices this category layout becomes a grid."
[15:13] <tsdgeos> weird?¿
[15:15] <Saviq> tsdgeos, not really... HJ doesn't make sense on smaller screens I think
[15:15] <Saviq> tsdgeos, truth be told I have not seen *any* design using HJ
[15:17] <tsdgeos> :D
[15:19] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you can check with mikenagle, but I doubt he'd come up with something *right now*
[15:19] <Saviq> tsdgeos, maybe we should ignore HJ for now
[15:19] <tsdgeos> works for me :D
[15:20] <tsdgeos> Saviq: so OrganicGrid? or just leave the VerticalJournal and try to fix the problem with have with art when the header line is only 1 line instead of two?
[15:20] <Saviq> tsdgeos, the latter
[15:20] <tsdgeos> makes sense
[15:51] <tsdgeos> Saviq: do you have a sec?
[16:00] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yes
[16:01] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i'm slightly confused by all the height/width sizing code of artShape and artShape.image
[16:01] <tsdgeos> i'd say that code is origianlly yours, do you remember it?
[16:01] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you and me both ;)
[16:01] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but yes
[16:01]  * Saviq looks
[16:01] <tsdgeos> i mean why do we have different width/height sizes for artShape and its image?
[16:02] <Saviq> lol
[16:02] <Saviq> I tell you guys, Albert has a timer that plugs his computer out ;D
[16:03] <Saviq> plugs out...
[16:03] <Saviq> yes, that's an expression
[16:03] <Saviq> tsdgeos, was just LMAO
[16:03] <Saviq> tsdgeos, at you getting disconnected at 6pm sharp ;)
[16:03] <Saviq> tsdgeos, the thing with image and the art is... there's so many combinations...
[16:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but in general, art is foo-wide, and high based on aspect-ratio, and the image is cropped
[16:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but when it's fill-mode: fit
[16:04] <tsdgeos> Saviq: router being funny
[16:05] <Saviq> tsdgeos, funny, sure, you just have a "disconnect at 6pm" timer don't you ;)
[16:05] <Saviq> tsdgeos, in fit mode it is fitted in those same bounds (foo-wide, aspect-ratio-high)
[16:06] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and they should always have the same dimensions, why do you say they don't?
[16:06] <tsdgeos> well
[16:06] <tsdgeos> we have
[16:06] <tsdgeos> height = Qt.binding(function() { return !visible ? 0 : image.fillMode [16:07] <tsdgeos> for artShape height
[16:07] <tsdgeos> so sometimes is the image height
[16:07] <tsdgeos> sometimes not
[16:07] <tsdgeos> but i guess it has to do with the cropping or not you mention
[16:08] <tsdgeos> thing is
[16:08] <tsdgeos> we're calculating that fixedArtShapeSize
[16:08] <tsdgeos> but not applying it correctly i'd say
[16:08] <tsdgeos> my current fix is
[16:08] <tsdgeos> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7595728/
[16:09] <tsdgeos> but i'm thinking that is going to break stuff
[16:09] <tsdgeos> and maybe i need to apply it to the shape and not the image
[16:09] <tsdgeos> anyway, i really need to disconnect or i'll be late to tapas with friends
[16:09] <tsdgeos> will try to think/find all combinations tomorrow
[16:09]  * tsdgeos waves
[16:09] <Saviq> tsdgeos, p/
[16:10] <Saviq> fook, missed him
[16:25] <anpok_> Saviq: we heard that trusted-sessions are already in use in some branches... could you point us to some?
[16:25] <Saviq> anpok_, _in use_?
[16:26] <Saviq> anpok_, let me fwd you the mail from Nick / Kevni
[16:26] <Saviq> Kevin
[16:26] <anpok_> in use - as in - somebody tries to implement something with it :)
[16:26] <Saviq> anpok_, ah yes, mardy is
[16:27] <Saviq> anpok_, with the branches mentioned in the email, though, u-s-c crashes for me on startup
[16:28] <Saviq> anpok_, here are the packages I built on Tue
[16:28] <Saviq> http://people.canonical.com/~msawicz/unity8/trusted-sessions.tar.xz
[16:28] <Saviq> anpok_, but I didn't have time to investigate
[16:29] <anpok_> ok thank you
[16:54] <mhall119> Trevinho: ping
[16:54] <Trevinho> mhall119: pong
[16:54] <Trevinho> mhall119: hi
[16:55] <mhall119> Trevinho: hey, could you run a session in UOS next week that goes over the features of Unity 7 and how to use them to maximize productivity? it's something that we've been requested to discuss
[16:57] <Trevinho> mhall119: yeah... But not sure how much there's to talk about them :) I mean, is there much to explain from an user prospective?
[16:57] <mhall119> Trevinho: I think there is, the features that you (and to a lesser extent I) take for granted may not be well known
[16:58] <mhall119> even things like explaining what the HUD is, where it's data comes from, and how the fuzzy matching works with it, would be something a lot of people probably don't fully grasp
[16:58] <Trevinho> mh, ok... I try to write down something
[16:59] <mhall119> the Launcher super+# shortcuts, window snapping, alt+~ instead of alt+tab, etc
[16:59] <mhall119> thanks
[17:02] <Saviq> mhall119, I won't be able to do UE Live next week, am in Berlin for QtCS, you'll have to make kgunn do it for you ;)
[17:03] <mhall119> Saviq: thanks, I know lots of good presenters will be at QtCS, bad timing for us but there weren't many other options
[17:03] <mhall119> kgunn: ping
[17:05] <Saviq> mhall119, oh yeah, and there's ODS, too...
[18:17] <cwayne> Saviq: seeing a lot of crashes with shell rotation on the n4
[18:17] <cwayne> may need to drop it and only apply those changes to n7 to lock into landscape
[18:17] <dandrader> cwayne, tell me the steps to reproduce it
[18:18] <dandrader> cwayne, btw, it's me, greyback and mzanetti working on it. so you can bug us regarding that ppa
[18:18] <cwayne> dandrader: just general use for me, opening an app or two and rotating the shell
[18:18] <cwayne> i get hangs and unity restarts, but no crash files
[18:25] <kgunn> mhall119: what's up ?
[18:28] <Saviq> cwayne, huh, no crash files? that's real weird
[18:28] <Saviq> cwayne, like nothing in /var/crash/ ?
[18:30] <cwayne> Saviq: nothing related to unity at least
[18:31] <greyback> cwayne: how about unity-system-compositor? or lightdm?
[18:31] <Saviq> cwayne, please clear it whole and next time you get it crash take a look what changed
[18:31] <cwayne> i took the update out of the mae-flash script though so I haven't used the shell-rotation bits in a few hours, let me add it back in and see if i can get some debug
[18:31] <cwayne> greyback: all i had was a mediascanner crashfile
[18:31] <greyback> cwayne: that won't affect unity8
[18:32] <cwayne> i know, that's why i said nothing related to unity :)
[18:32] <greyback> :)
[18:32] <mhall119> kgunn: we need a UOS session about Mir/Unity 8, either planning or presentation (with Q&A), can you run that next week?
[18:32] <cwayne> let me reinstall the ppa and see if i can get some repro steps
[18:33] <kgunn> mhall119: yeah, i got side tracked on adding a session...let me do that
[18:33] <kgunn> mhall119: my only request is to have it on Thurs...i'm out of office tomorrow until Wed morning (having a day to get oriented would be nice :)
[18:38] <mhall119> kgunn: that's fine, if you set your availability when you registered for the summit it'll warn the scheduler if they try to put it any other day
[18:40] <cwayne> oh, there was a unity8 update 10 minutes ago from that ppa?
[18:40] <cwayne> greyback: mzanetti^ what changes were in there?
[18:41] <kgunn> mhall119: sil2100 ...fyi, my session http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22290/utopic-ue-unity8-mir-roadmap/
[18:41]  * kgunn needs to go update availability
[18:41] <greyback> cwayne: some tablet fixes mainly - for spread. The too-tall window problem too (i.e. panel on top)
[18:44] <cwayne> hm, it does seem a bit more stable than this morning, even on the n4 though
[18:44] <mhall119> Trevinho: can you register for uos-1406 so I can get this session in for you?
[18:44] <mhall119> Trevinho: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/registration/
[18:50] <sil2100> kgunn: thanks!
[18:54] <cwayne> greyback: rotation does seem a bit too sensitive still though
[18:55] <greyback> cwayne: noted, will see what we can do
[18:57] <kgunn> cwayne: greyback ...isn't rotation sensitivity what ricmm addressed? (malta demo)
[18:58] <greyback> kgunn: yes but he's not shared the code yet
[18:58]  * cwayne wasn't in malta
[18:58] <mhall119> kgunn: approved it, thanks
[18:59] <mhall119> kgunn: anytime on thursday good for you?
[19:00] <kgunn> mhall119: sure
[19:00] <mhall119> kgunn: ok, got you scheduled for 1400 UTC
[19:01] <kgunn> ta
[19:09] <anpok_> hm in the unity8 changes that landed overnight.. was there a change that might cause surfaces to be resizes temporarly when the osk is shown
[19:09] <anpok_> (or was it always like that)?
[19:13] <Saviq> anpok_, no, there's no surface resizing in current u8
[19:13] <Saviq> anpok_, anything that could happen would happen in qtubuntu
[19:27] <Trevinho> mhall119: done
[20:18] <cwayne> greyback: mzanetti dandrader: camera seems to be rotated oddly in n7 pinned to landscape
[20:19] <dandrader> cwayne, does it rotate at all?
[20:20] <dandrader> cwayne, when you rotate the device
[20:36] <cwayne> dandrader: no
[20:40] <cwayne> dandrader: also, dragging from the right on n7 with no apps open drags a black box from the right
[20:40] <dandrader> cwayne, yeah, that's know
[20:40] <cwayne> ok cool, sorry :)
[20:40] <dandrader> cwayne, np. keep it coming :)
[20:48] <cwayne> hmm, shorts app seems broken


[00:01] <ali1234> bug 867985
[00:01] <ali1234> that bug shows up on API instantly :)
[00:21] <poolie> ali1234, wow, putting that into update-manager would be amazing
[00:22] <ali1234> (21:31:38) ali1234: you know what would be amazing?
[00:22] <ali1234> ^ that's exactly what i thought :)
[00:23] <ali1234> poolie: btw, where is your blog post about +affectingbugs?
[00:23] <ali1234> btw2: i already have this working, but only for bugs that i reported obviously. but i got the update-manager side working nicely
[01:31] <ali1234> why is isUserAffected a POST method with no arguments? is it intended only to be used when logged in?
[04:27] <idnar> argh
[04:27] <idnar> I wish my latency to launchpad was better, lots of roundtrips == pain
[07:49] <jimakira> hi everyone
[07:51] <jimakira> i have problem uploading package to the server
[07:51] <jimakira> stalled at 2k/3k
[07:51] <jimakira> http://paste.ubuntu.com/702624/
[07:51] <jimakira> here is full output
[07:51] <jimakira> i tried both ftp and sftp
[07:51] <jimakira> any ideas ??
[07:52] <wgrant> jimakira: This shouldn't cause the hang, but your OpenPGP key isn't registered with your Launchpad account.
[07:52] <wgrant> Try registering it and uploading again.
[12:48] <tumbleweed> aww, why can't we see launchpad.net/builders any more?
[12:52] <tumbleweed> ah, that's better :)
[12:52]  * tumbleweed wonders what just happened
[13:20] <Laney> mmm, long lists of idle builders
[13:21] <tumbleweed> I was getting a "you aren't allowed to see this page" message for 5 mins, then it went away again
[13:26] <daker> hi
[13:26] <daker> i am getting an OOPS-2104AW76 here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~daker/+affectingbugs
[13:27] <daker> and here OOPS-2104DY72 https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?search=Search&field.affects_me=on&orderby=-date_last_updated
[15:21] <afranke> Hi!
[15:23] <afranke> I'm the admin of ubuntu-l10n-fr and I have 157 people applying that I need to contact to give them guidelines. The "Contact this user" feature will only let me send 3 messages/24h. Is there a way to raise this limit please?
[15:24] <nigelb> Do you have a mailing list for the team?
[15:24] <afranke> Yes…
[15:25] <afranke> However
[15:25] <afranke> The guidelines I send tell them to subscribe to that list.
[15:25] <nigelb> Ah! A chicken and egg problem :)
[15:25] <afranke> Voilà.
[15:25] <afranke> :)
[15:26] <nigelb> I'll defer to danilos to help you figure out something :)
[15:26] <afranke> Thanks.
[15:26] <danilos> afranke, there is no way to raise the limit
[15:26] <afranke> Bummer.
[15:27] <nigelb> afranke: You could potentially, run a launchpadlib to grab the emails of at least those that are public.
[15:27] <danilos> afranke, generally, you should have probably set up a mailing list instead, and put that into the requirements for joining the team: "first subscribe to the mailing list and introduce yourself, indicating you have read the guidelines at ..."
[15:27] <afranke> nigelb, unfortunately not that many have set a public email address.
[15:28] <nigelb> :(
[15:28] <danilos> afranke, you can reject their membership with an information notice as well (they can always rejoin later)
[15:29] <afranke> I find quite hard for them.
[15:29] <afranke> I don't want to hurt their feelings.
[15:30] <afranke> danilos, we have a lists.ubuntu.com list, not a launchpad one. Is there a way for me to put that on the launchpad team?
[15:30] <danilos> afranke, only as a link in the team description
[15:30] <afranke> Ok. We already have that.
[15:31] <danilos> afranke, but generally, I put guidelines and conditions on the team page, if people don't read them, I don't feel bad about rejecting them :)
[15:31] <afranke> Our current policy is to sent a message to applicants with guidelines and decline membership if no feedback has been received 3 months later.
[15:32] <afranke> Which happens most of the time.
[15:33] <nigelb> Addiction is a shirt, a bedsheet, and the afghan my mother made for me, now all with cigarette burns.
[15:33] <afranke> But we also have a huge backlog of candidates from times where we didn't have that policy.
[15:33] <nigelb> bah
[15:33] <nigelb> accidental paste
[15:33] <afranke> Which is why we reached 157.
[15:34] <afranke> Actually we even had 250+ at one point I think, but I already made that number go down… 3 messages at a time.
[15:34] <danilos> afranke, well, considering those candidates have been waiting for more than 3 months, declining them with an informational notice might be good enough
[15:35] <danilos> afranke, (probably more than 3 years, but hey :))
[15:35] <afranke> danilos, I might end up doing that, but I find it a bit sad nonetheless.
[15:37] <danilos> afranke, agreed, but what else can you do than admit to not being very nice in such cases? one should also note to these people that they can still translate Ubuntu to French, but they will have to have their translations reviewed
[15:38] <afranke> Yeah…
[15:47] <Phantomas> hello, my package has as a build-dependency the python-distutils-extra package, and launchpad failed to build my package because of this dependency missing, what should I do?
[16:12] <bigjools> Phantomas: you need to find out why it's missing, perhaps you're depending on the wrong version or it's building in a series that doesn't have it
[17:38] <cos^> hello, should updating an expired pgp key work?
[17:38] <cos^> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50469
[17:39] <cos^> i uploaded my extended key > 30 mins ago and it's still not accepted
[17:45] <cos^> when uploading sources i get "Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ["(7, 153, u'Key expired')", "(7, 153, u'Key expired')", "(7, 153, u'Key expired')"] : Permission denied.
[17:52] <cos^> just the day i wanted to make 1.0 release and announce on slashdot etc :-)
[17:52] <tumbleweed> cos^: was the upload actually accepted? That warning is known to be often broken
[17:54] <cos^> tumbleweed: yes, gpg: sending key A47B515C to hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
[17:54] <cos^> was successful
[17:54] <tumbleweed> cos^: no, I mean did you get an e-mail saying your *package* upload was accepted?
[17:55] <cos^> ah, hold on..
[17:56] <cos^> yes, looks like it was accepted
[17:56] <cos^> thanks
[17:56] <tumbleweed> you can ignore that error
[20:08] <Phantomas> Is it possible to build the same version of a package for many Ubuntu series in a PPA, without having to add ~SeriesName at the end of the version number?
[20:08] <tumbleweed> Phantomas: no, because then you'd have different binaries with the same version
[20:08] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: you remind me the launchpad error messages :P
[20:09] <tumbleweed> if it doesn't actually need to be rubilt for each series, you can copy the bineries between series
[20:09] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: so, I will have to change the changelog, and make a new dput for every series?
[20:10] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: I think it needs, it uses python
[20:10] <tumbleweed> depends. If you are using dh_python2 or have C extenisons, then probably, yes
[20:11] <tumbleweed> (you'd need to rebuild for each release that has different supported python versions)
[20:11] <tumbleweed> yes, touch changelog, build, sign, upload. (actually you don't need to touch the changelog, you can accomplish it by editing the .changes file, but I probably shouldn't say that :P )
[20:12] <tumbleweed> anywa, easily scriptable
[20:12] <Phantomas> haha yes, but I was wondering if there was an easier/more quick way
[20:13] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: thanks ;)
[20:13] <Phantomas> e.g. 0.1b1~maverick should do?
[20:14] <tumbleweed> as long as newer series have newer version numbers, you are fine
[20:16] <Phantomas> else?
[20:16] <tumbleweed> users won't be able to upgrade your packages when they upgrade releases
[20:17] <Phantomas> yes, I mean, what should I use then?
[20:17] <tumbleweed> what you have sounds fine
[20:18] <Phantomas> because I see some packages use something like 2.3.2-1~bazaar1~lucid1
[20:20] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: If I use recipes, will it build automatically for many ubuntu series?
[20:21] <tumbleweed> yes
[20:22] <Phantomas> You didn't tell me :P
[20:22] <Phantomas> OK, I'll search for documentation!
[20:23] <Phantomas> (on recipes)
[20:35] <Phantomas> If I delete a PPA, is it possible to create another with the same name?
[20:35] <tumbleweed> no, ppas don't actually get deleted
[20:36] <Phantomas> ouch! :D
[20:45] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: Is it correct to have e.g. Distribution: lucid in a maverick/natty/oneiric package?
[20:46] <Phantomas> I mean, by using recipes, this is what you get
[20:46] <Phantomas> or I should have a different debian/ catalog for every ubuntu series...
[20:46] <tumbleweed> Phantomas: I don't understand the question. When the recipe builds, it'll add a changelog entry for the release its building for
[20:48] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: I have my debian directory inside the development branch, inside the debian/changelog I must have something like package (version) natty; urgency=low
[20:48] <Phantomas> isn't this correct?
[20:48] <tumbleweed> don't worry about it, it'll add a new changelog entry
[20:48] <tumbleweed> it doesn't matter what you have in the changelog
[20:50] <Phantomas> yes it adds a new changelog entry but keeps natty, even if it's for oneiric for example :-\
[20:50] <Phantomas> package (0.1b1-0~15~oneiric1) lucid; urgency=low
[20:50] <michaelh1> Hey, Im' getting a timeout on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~michaelh1/+affectingbugs with OOPS-2104CF115
[20:51] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: (lucid in this case instead of natty)
[20:53] <tumbleweed> Phantomas: which PPA?
[20:54] <janimo> jelmer, hi this page was accesible half an hour ago, but no permission anymore https://launchpad.net/builders
[20:54] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: https://launchpad.net/~phantomas/+archive/epopt-test1/+packages
[20:55] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: e.g the oneiric changelog: https://launchpad.net/~phantomas/+archive/epopt-test1/+files/epoptes_0.1b1-0%7E15%7Eoneiric1_source.changes
[20:55] <jelmer> JanC: hi
[20:55] <jelmer> JanC: sorry, wrong nick
[20:55] <jelmer> janimo: That's probably related to it wanting to display some data you don't have permission to access, like a private build on one of the builders.
[20:56] <janimo> jelmer, but that makes the whole page suddenly forbidden instead of omitting private info?
[20:56] <jelmer> janimo: that's not correct of course, ideally it should just show you that there *is* a private build rather than not displaying the entire page
[20:56] <janimo> it is the first time I see this page
[20:56] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: This is my debian/changelog http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~epoptes/epoptes/trunk/view/head:/debian/changelog    and this is the recipe: https://code.launchpad.net/~phantomas/+recipe/epoptes-daily
[20:57] <janimo> I mean first time I see it not display
[20:57] <janimo> :)
[20:57] <jelmer> janimo: please file a bug about it
[20:58] <tumbleweed> I saw that this morning too
[20:59] <tumbleweed> (and I've also been seeing the usual "private build" build description that masks anything really private
[21:00] <tumbleweed> Phantomas: the "Changes" distribution doesn't matter, the "Distribution" does
[21:01] <janimo> jelmer, filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/868710 , even though I don't think it will get more love than other years old bugs I filed on LP itself :)
[21:02] <jelmer> janimo: the Launchpad team has been fixing an amazing amount of bugs like this recently, rather than piling on new features
[21:02] <jelmer> janimo: (I'm not a Launchpad dev)
[21:02] <janimo> good to know, although some I filed were feature requests :)
[21:11] <Phantomas> tumbleweed: but is it correct to have whatever series in the changes file? I mean, I could have feisty in the changelog of a build for oneiric?
[21:11] <Phantomas> sorry for the many questions, I am trying to understand :)
[21:13] <tumbleweed> I guess it could confuse people, but there's nothing technically wrong with it
[21:14] <Phantomas> aha
[21:17] <Phantomas> and I guess there is no other way to change it when using recipes than of having a different debian directory for every ubuntu series you want to have builds for, which is insane...
[21:20] <tumbleweed> yes. You could file a bug against bzr-builder, if you feel strongly about it
[21:23] <broder> are the lp devs entertaining merge proposals to add non-gmail.com google apps domains to the dkim whitelist?
[21:23] <Phantomas> haha! tumbleweed: Thanks for all your answers! :)
[22:30] <stgraber> hello
[22:30] <stgraber> can someone please set the Ubuntu Developer Membership board as the owner of https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev-owner
[22:31] <stgraber> instead of the stranger I just selected by mistake
[22:31] <stgraber> this team is for upload rights management so would be great if it could be done quickly ;)
[22:31] <wgrant> stgraber: Could you file a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion?
[22:32] <stgraber> wgrant: sure
[22:32] <micahg> wgrant: this should actually happen immediately, is there someone we can grab?
[22:33] <wgrant> I'll throw it to a LOSA once it's filed.
[22:33] <wgrant> Should be done in a couple of minutes :)
[22:33] <micahg> wgrant: nevermind we can work around for the moment
[22:34] <micahg> wgrant: not as bad w/the archive frozen
[22:34] <stgraber> wgrant: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/173374
[22:35] <wgrant> LOSA ping: could you please fix https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/173374?
[22:35] <thedac> wgrant: taking a look
[22:37] <thedac> wgrant: done
[22:38] <wgrant> Thanks.
[22:38] <stgraber> thedac: thanks
[22:38] <thedac> stgraber: no problem
[22:42] <tumbleweed> lifeless: if bug 868710 is a dup of bug 760303 (as you marked it) then bigjools' comment #1 on 760303 is incorrect
[22:51] <lifeless> tumbleweed: same set of code, same issue
[22:51] <lifeless> yes, his comment may well be wrong
[22:51] <lifeless> or more likely we've regressed somehow
[22:53] <tumbleweed> ok, I'll follow up, thanks


[15:06] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +34 cases, +2247 tests since 2 days ago
[15:17] <pavlushka> %quake
[15:17] <Brainstorm> pavlushka, Last reports: 4.1 Ml, 15:08 UTC Nurhak, Turkey (37.97, 37.48) ± 30 km felt to 140 km (in Kahramanmaraş…) by 4.6 million