[02:58] <hatch> huwshimi for reals??
[02:58] <hatch> maybe Makyo can reproduce
[02:58] <hatch> :)
[03:00] <Makyo> What.
[03:00] <hatch> hah you fell into my trap!
[03:00] <Makyo>  fired.
[03:00] <Makyo> Just got back from Chicago :P
[03:00] <hatch> lol
[03:00] <hatch> have fun?
[03:00] <Makyo> Ish?
[03:00] <hatch> well....thats....good?
[03:00] <Makyo> James got laryngitis part way through so some of it was spent at urgent care.
[03:01] <hatch> oh damn, all good now?
[03:01] <Makyo> Also, the hotel was an atrium (another Hyatt Regency, like October), so there was a lot of heights to deal with.
[03:01] <Makyo> I know know now that I can ask for a low floor and they'll give it to me :)
[03:02] <hatch> lol
[03:02] <Makyo> Yeah, just some antibiotics to clear it i[.
[03:02] <Makyo> up
[03:02] <hatch> well that's good
[03:02] <Makyo> Didn't look at a computer screen all weekend. I'm so proud of myself :)
[03:02] <hatch> ahh it's awesome when that happens
[03:02] <Makyo> I brought the MBA and didn't even take it out of its bag.
[03:03] <hatch> haha nice
[03:04] <hatch> You should try and reproduce this bug for me https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1254903 :)
[03:04] <_mup_> Bug #1254903: Sidebar does not open if GUI is loaded in the background <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254903>
[03:04] <Makyo> Sure
[03:04] <hatch> yussss
[03:05] <hatch> I need it to happen to at least one other person so it doesn't get closed haha
[03:06] <Makyo> Pulling.
[03:06] <hatch> oh you can do it on comingsoon
[03:07] <hatch> sorry I'll update the bug
[03:14] <huwshimi> hatch: I wasn't being serious :)
[03:15] <hatch> these are lies
[03:15] <hatch> you're all fired up with energy after your holiday
[03:15] <hatch> :P
[03:16] <huwshimi> hatch: Hey, I'm just happy I figured out a way to do animations that we haven't been able to do for over six months :)
[03:17] <hatch> no-no-no we were ABLE to do them, we just didn't want to do all the extra work to get them to work
[03:17] <hatch> lol
[03:19] <Makyo> hatch, reproduced, chrome 31
[03:19] <huwshimi> hatch: heh, yeah, we can also build a monkey. It'll just take us a little while to get all the different sciences worked out.
[03:19] <hatch> Makyo YUS VICTORY!!!!!
[03:20] <hatch> huwshimi those monkeys are a tough breed
[03:20]  * Makyo sneaks for the night.
[03:20] <hatch> cya tomorrow Makyo
[03:21] <huwshimi> 2 vs 2 then. I guess we need to sort this out then...
[03:21] <hatch> clearly you're doing it wrong
[03:25] <hatch> huwshimi so are you going to switch us to sass soon? :)
[03:25] <huwshimi> hatch: As soon as we upgrade Node :)
[03:26] <hatch> crap that's my job too isn't it?
[03:26] <huwshimi> hatch: Well, that's the blocker at this point
[03:26] <huwshimi> hatch: I think so!
[03:26] <hatch> well then
[03:28] <huwshimi> hatch: Have you been following Gary's authtoken branch at all?
[03:28] <huwshimi> hatch: Just trying to figure out what this means: "One of the things it does is that now the sandbox actually says that its name is "demonstration".  This shows us that the notification boxes don't line up properly if they move.  Do you have any brilliant ideas on fixes for this, by chance?"
[03:29] <hatch> huwshimi nope
[03:29] <huwshimi> :(
[03:29] <hatch> reading..
[03:29] <huwshimi> hatch: Can the environment name change dynamically?
[03:30] <hatch> ohh I think I know
[03:30] <hatch> one sec, testing
[03:30] <huwshimi> Changing the name doesn't seem to break anything anyway
[03:31] <hatch> ok I was wrong...
[03:31] <hatch> I thought that he meant the notification when 'something' happens like deploying a bundle
[03:31] <hatch> but changing the environment name to 'super long environment name' and then making a notification still has the popup thing in the right place
[03:31] <hatch> and the dropdown 'list' also appears in the right spot...
[03:32] <hatch> at least this is on comingsoon
[03:32] <hatch> assuming that his branch landed?
[03:33] <huwshimi> hatch: It appears to be the same for his branch too.
[03:33] <huwshimi> hatch: Not to worry I'll ask for clarification
[03:33] <hatch> yeah...then I have no idea
[03:33] <huwshimi> hatch: Do you think there's any timeline for upgrading Node?
[03:33] <huwshimi> hatch: I know it's a "test and see if we can" kind of thing...
[03:34] <hatch> well...I can probably start on it after my branch tomorrow
[03:35] <hatch> It's probably important that we get it upgraded
[03:35] <hatch> there have been lots of changes with the charm so I'll have to coordinate with someone else too probably
[03:37] <huwshimi> hatch: Is there a specific reason you were thinking about SASS again?
[03:37] <hatch> source maps
[03:38] <huwshimi> ah right
[03:38] <hatch> beyond that, I think it offers some nicer syntax stuff
[03:38] <hatch> but that's just personal preference
[03:38] <hatch> I am not sure we will use the more advanced sass stuff
[03:39] <hatch> but it would be nice to use for things like your animations and whatnot
[12:39] <frankban> morning bac: could you please take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/32760043 ?
[12:42] <bac> sure frankban
[12:43] <frankban> bac: thanks
[13:16] <bac> frankban: the code looks fine, working on qa
[13:16] <frankban> bac: great thanks
[13:58] <bac> frankban: following your (excellent) instructions i encountered this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6479076/
[13:58] <bac> not sure why
[13:58] <frankban> bac: looking
[13:59] <frankban> bac: what does `which juju` return in the container?
[13:59] <bac> doh
[13:59] <bac> my custom go version
[14:00] <frankban> bac: I see, indeed juju-core was not installed
[14:00] <bac> nope
[14:00] <bac> so it uses the existence of 'juju' on the path to decide whether to install the package?
[14:00] <bac> maybe it should do a 'which juju' and ensure it is /usr/bin/juju
[14:01] <frankban> bac: yes, the code uses "juju version" or similar. maybe we should make that check with the full path
[14:01] <bac> frankban: yay, for my non-standard system to break qa
[14:02] <frankban> :-) updating the branch, so that you can continue the QA after pulling it
[14:02] <bac> after removing my custom juju and re-running, it did install juju-core and re-used the ec2 env
[14:07] <frankban> bac: changes pushed, now juju is always used with the full path
[14:08] <bac> cool
[14:10] <frankban> bac:  delta here: https://codereview.appspot.com/32760043/diff2/1:20001/quickstart/app.py
[14:11] <bac> frankban: looks good.  i
[14:11] <frankban> cool
[14:11] <bac> am just waiting for the qa to finish.  not going to restart with new patch.
[14:12] <frankban> bac: sounds good
[14:12] <frankban> guihelp: I need another review (no QA) for https://codereview.appspot.com/32760043 ? Anyone available?
[14:13]  * gary_poster on calls
[14:13] <rick_h_> frankban: sure thing, sec
[14:13] <frankban> rick_h_: thank you
[14:13] <bac> frankban: it seems it is trying to re-use an existing ec2, even though juju status does not show it started
[14:14] <bac> frankban: i wonder if that is an effect of it starting with my custom juju?
[14:15] <bac> frankban: aws console shows no instances running
[14:15] <bac> frankban: but i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/6479151/
[14:17] <bac> frankban: destroying the (non-existent) environment caused quickstart to bootstrap a new one the next time
[14:17] <frankban> bac: could you please 1) juju destroy-environment -e ec2 2) pull the branch, 3) re-run quickstart.
[14:17] <frankban> heh\
[14:18] <frankban> bac: for some reason juju got confused
[14:19] <frankban> bac: maybe a bug in your compiled version of juju
[14:25] <bac> frankban: ok, qa done successfully.
[14:26] <frankban> bac: thanks a lot
[14:26] <bac> frankban: np.
[14:27] <bac> frankban: thanks for the good lxc primer.  i may clip that and squirrel it away
[14:28] <frankban> cool :-)
[14:31] <frankban> bac: my last discovery was "sudo lxc-ls --fancy", which also returns all the ip addresses in the container's network namespace
[14:32] <bac> um, --fancy is fancy
[14:34] <bac> rick_h_: i tried to reproduce 1251420 on friday but had no luck.  do you actually see that gigantoid error message in the notifications?
[14:35] <rick_h_> bac: yes, the value for "Error" is stuck into a notifcation with the text (something like) Deploy id: X failed. There was an error: <Env Error - Details...
[14:35] <frankban> bac: using that, it is possible to ssh into an lxc, for instance, with a function like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6479241/
[14:35] <rick_h_> frankban: you duped that correct? Wasn't it from having a constraint set to '' ?
[14:37] <frankban> rick_h_: uhm... not sure if that generated the empty error...
[14:37] <rick_h_> frankban: that wasn't the empty error, that was the "casting a EnvError to string is fugly" error
[14:38] <frankban> rick_h_: to dupe that I suppose we want a bundle with invalid data, e.g. an invalid value for an option, or invalid constraints yeah
[14:43] <bac> rick_h_: i modified one of my bundles to have an invalid constraint and dragged it locally onto an ec2 canvas.  that should've aggravated it, no?
[14:43] <rick_h_> bac: in a live env?
[14:44] <rick_h_> bac: and did you get anything back? The websocket should show the traffic and that dump is from the websocket connection
[14:44] <bac> rick_h_: yeah
[14:44] <bac> rick_h_: i added '''constraints: "cpu-cores="  ''' to mediawiki
[14:44] <rick_h_> bac: I mean if you didn't get that, did you get something else? Did it work?
[14:44] <rick_h_> bac: that might read as undefined, try "cpu-cores=''"
[14:44] <bac> rick_h_: istr that it did not work and i did not get the error.  will spin up again
[14:45] <bac> rick_h_: sorry, my eyesight is not good enough to parse that.
[14:45] <bac> is that =<singlequote><singlequote>
[14:45] <bac> or =<dq><dq>
[14:45] <rick_h_> bac: rgr, set the constraint to an empty string
[14:45] <rick_h_> single-single
[14:46] <rick_h_> sec, looking for the old rev of jcastro's bundle that did it
[14:46] <bac> rt
[14:46] <rick_h_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jorge/charms/bundles/jenkins/bundle/revision/4
[14:46] <rick_h_> that was erroring, so he removed them entirely
[14:47] <rick_h_> bac: so maybe you can try to get his bundle at older revisions and use it
[14:51] <bac> rick_h_: are you saying r4 was bad in the right way?
[14:51] <rick_h_> bac: I believe so
[14:51] <bac> rick_h_: ok
[14:51] <rick_h_> bac: sorry for the vagueness of memory here
[14:51] <rick_h_> bac: but I know he fixed them by removing the constraints and it caused the env to blow up with an invalid value
[14:51] <frankban> rick_h_: your two suggestions are very good, thank you!. Is it ok if I create cards? one refers to pre-existing code (lxc) and the other seems out of scope for this branch (settings.COMMANDS)
[14:51] <rick_h_> frankban: rgr
[14:51] <frankban> rick_h_: cool
[14:51] <bac> rick_h_: i'll try my changes to local muletrain and see what happens first
[14:52] <rick_h_> bac: yea, sorry I bet it's the right constraing
[14:52] <rick_h_> I think the cpu-cores is cast to an int before going to the client
[14:52] <rick_h_> so maybe that's why it's not failing for you
[14:52] <rick_h_> while the branch from jorge has all of them set to empty and not all were valid/cast to a number
[14:58] <jcastro> sweet, so I get to add constraints back to all my bundles?
[14:58] <rick_h_> jcastro: yea, but they can't be those empty ones or it'll error.
[14:58] <rick_h_> they have to be legit
[14:59] <hatch> jcastro the ghost charm has been pushed to lp and a bug created to get it into charmers.....question though...do I need to re-submit it to charmers for every update?
[14:59] <jcastro> I like the idea of having empty ones, makes it easy to figure out "oh neat, I can tune this"
[14:59] <hatch> 2 legit to quit
[14:59] <jcastro> hatch, from then on you'll do a merge proposal and we'll autoget it in the queue
[14:59] <hatch> ahh gotcha
[14:59] <jcastro> after X amount of times we can hand it over to you as a maintainer
[15:00] <jcastro> but at first we like to peer review
[15:00] <hatch> I noticed that the 'owner' of the charm isn't anywhere in the jujucharms.com listing
[15:00] <hatch> should we not have a field to contact the owner?
[15:00] <jcastro> huh, I thought we had the maintainer field showing up?
[15:01] <hatch> https://jujucharms.com/precise/mongodb-18/
[15:01] <hatch> once they get recommended that goes away
[15:02] <jcastro> ah, maybe that's on purpose then?
[15:02] <hatch> not sure - I think we should have it though to encourage discussion between the user and developer
[15:03] <jcastro> I don't remember why we took it off
[15:03] <jcastro> maybe to encourage people to discuss things like that on the general list instead of email?
[15:04] <hatch> hmm maybe
[15:05]  * hatch adds maintainer to the UI, doesn't tell anyone
[15:12] <rick_h_> hatch: stop that, it's a long standing argument
[15:13] <rick_h_> the maintainer and the cake is a lie
[15:13] <hatch> lol - well I can't help it if I'm right
[15:34] <TheMue> gary_poster: ping
[15:45] <gary_poster> TheMue, hi
[15:49] <TheMue> gary_poster: i'm currently working on the migration of the debug-log command from using ssh to the api
[15:50] <gary_poster> TheMue, ah, cool!
[15:50] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 10
[15:50] <hatch> ooo nice!
[15:50] <TheMue> gary_poster: here i wanted to ask you what you/the gui expects from the command
[15:52] <gary_poster> TheMue, great!  Thank you.  May I ping you after our team call and we can try to have a call?  So, maybe in 30 minutes or so?
[15:52] <TheMue> gary_poster: sure, will be here
[15:52] <gary_poster> hatch did you ever write your reply about the local charm integration?
[15:52] <gary_poster> thank you TheMue
[15:52] <TheMue> gary_poster: yw
[15:53] <hatch> sorry I'll finish it now
[15:53] <gary_poster> cool thanks hatch, np.
[15:58] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
[16:40] <gary_poster> TheMue, you available now?
[16:40] <gary_poster> TheMue, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/Z2FyeS5wb3N0ZXJAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.j0rk5d371ph8331ijtf48t2uj0
[16:40] <Makyo> frankban, lmk when you have a moment for pre-imp
[16:49] <hatch> gary_poster would you mind seeing if you can reproduce this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1254903 it's very odd how different people aren't able to
[16:49] <_mup_> Bug #1254903: Sidebar does not open if GUI is loaded in the background <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254903>
[16:50] <gary_poster> hatch, k on it
[16:54] <frankban> Makyo: I am available now
[16:54] <gary_poster> hatch, can't dupe.  also, we know from tests that some aspects of the code require that the browser be visible.  That seems fairly reasonable to me.  Even if we decide we can sufficiently dupe it, I'd be tempted to triage it low at the most.
[16:54] <Makyo> frankban, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi5n825fv8nflmovv6gqa4c?hl=en
[16:55] <rick_h_> gary_poster: the focus issues are tests around FF and the valueChange YUI event since it only polls when the input has focus. Focus shouldn't be an issue here unless specific browser versions were trying to cut corners by not rendering invisible bits while not looking a the page.
[16:56] <hatch> gary_poster yeah I am not too concerned with it as far as it being a bug goes - it's just a very curious bug with how not-repeatable it is for some
[16:56] <rick_h_> but we can't dupe in a few diff verisons/machines so seems hit/miss/too browser specific atm imo
[16:56] <gary_poster> rick_h_, hatch, ack
[17:09] <jcastro> hey frankban
[17:10] <frankban> jcastro: hi
[17:10] <jcastro> do we have a bug for allowing passing constraints from quickstart?
[17:10] <jcastro> like, say I want an all in one ghost bundle
[17:10] <jcastro> and I want everything on node 0
[17:10] <jcastro> but I'm going to want more resources than the standard default
[17:11] <frankban> jcastro: so those are bootstrap node constraints
[17:11] <jcastro> right
[17:13] <hatch> oo that would be very cool
[17:13] <hatch> juju quickstart ghost all-on-one-superpowermode
[17:13] <hatch> oh sorry
[17:13] <hatch> juju quickstart ghost --all-on-one-superpowermode
[17:14] <hatch> :D
[17:14] <frankban> jcastro: quickstart does not support that. AFAICT provider constraints are specified in the envs.yaml file. We could add that functionality as part of our environment creation story
[17:14] <jcastro> yeah because for small bundles, it still sucks to have a node just for orchestration
[17:14] <jcastro> frankban, ok I'll file a wishlist bug then
[17:15] <hatch> I'm really happy we are now getting features for the little guy
[17:15] <jcastro> indeed
[17:15] <jcastro> the little guy drives adoption
[17:15] <hatch> that!
[17:15] <frankban> jcastro: hum, they can also be passed as bootstrap args, so a quick fix could be adding a --constraints arg to quickstart
[17:15] <jcastro> "you think we did a good job with your ghost blog? wait until you see what we can do with your stuff at your job!"
[17:16] <hatch> haha
[17:16] <jcastro> frankban, yeah so maybe just allowing quickstart to pass arguments to deployer underneath?
[17:16] <jcastro> that also sounds like less work!
[17:17] <frankban> jcastro: well, to pass argument to juju, not the deployer. I have a question, what is the behavior of a bundle which deploys a service to machine 0 if the local provider is used?
[17:17] <jcastro> I was not thinking of local
[17:18] <jcastro> that is a good question
[17:53] <gary_poster> frankban, hatch, others, I'm planning to add these mock function and method test helpers to the GUI tests.  feedback welcome.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6480086/
[17:55] <hatch> cool I'll take a look in a bit
[17:57] <hatch> gary_poster I took a look real quick - it looks like you're replicating some of the functionality of http://sinonjs.org/
[17:59] <hatch> maybe we want to implement that instead?
[18:00] <gary_poster> hatch, maybe so.  ugh.  I just want to get my branch finished.  Adding the dependency is more annoying, unfortunately.  Didn't you or someone else look into this once before?
[18:01] <hatch> we did - at the time we didn't have any real need for it :)
[18:01] <hatch> I'm not saying we shouldn't land your code
[18:01] <gary_poster> I just have a need in one test
[18:01] <hatch> just that we should probably look into this type of lib more seriously
[18:01] <hatch> because it could simplify things I bet
[18:01] <gary_poster> agreed
[18:03] <frankban> gary_poster, hatch: +1 those two functions look good, perhaps we could have another card to evaluate introducing a mock library
[18:04] <gary_poster> good idea +1
[18:04] <gary_poster> thanks both
[18:05]  * hatch looks at the bug list, board, backlog.....
[18:05]  * hatch bows head
[18:05] <hatch> lol
[18:05] <gary_poster> :-)
[18:12]  * Makyo walk dogs. Maybe they'll stop being such brats :T
[18:20] <hatch> the relations need to move under the service model like the units did
[18:20] <gary_poster> not sure I agree
[18:20] <gary_poster> units are definitely children of services
[18:20] <gary_poster> relations have two masters
[18:21] <hatch> hmm
[18:21] <hatch> good point
[18:22] <benji> well, that's a new one: "no reachable servers"
[18:23] <hatch> benji sounds like you are having a bad week
[18:23] <benji> it might sound that way, but I'm enjoying myself at the moment
[18:23] <hatch> a service should have reference to the relation object.....that's how it should be done
[18:23] <hatch> right now they are too separate imho
[18:34] <gary_poster> sounds like a potentially nice change.
[18:47] <hatch> jujugui looking for review and qa https://codereview.appspot.com/33130043/ plz and thanks
[18:49] <hatch> and performance card gets pushed down again....poor performance card
[19:09] <hatch> forget that, I seem to have found a bug in the real env qa
[19:12] <hatch> if I'm working on the source in the charm how do I get it to re-build?
[19:12] <hatch> sorry I'm totally blanking
[19:19] <rick_h_> hatch: elaborate please? 'working on the source in the charm' you working on the gui source js from a live env?
[19:19] <hatch> yeah
[19:19] <rick_h_> hatch: you shouold be able to turn on debug mode to get it to use the debug files
[19:20] <hatch> that's what I thought too
[19:20] <rick_h_> then you can edit those and it'll be fresh on each page load
[19:21] <hatch> well the files in juju-gui-source need to be built somehow
[19:21] <hatch> and all of my my make commands in there just hang
[19:22] <rick_h_> well the charm takes care of the build and getting the uncompressed files into place. They're just in the build-debug vs build-prod
[19:22] <rick_h_> and no re-making should be necessary
[19:23] <hatch> yeah it's definitely not working because I put an alert at the top of app.js and nothing happens on refresh
[19:23] <hatch> the gui is also not hitting any of my breakpoints
[19:23] <rick_h_> which sources is it pull?
[19:23] <rick_h_> compressed all.js?
[19:23] <rick_h_> or each individual file?
[19:24] <hatch> the individual files are here under juju-ui
[19:24] <rick_h_> hatch: right, but in the network tab of your browser, which files are loading
[19:25] <hatch> all of them
[19:25] <rick_h_> each single file?
[19:25] <rick_h_> you're not being clear :P
[19:25] <hatch> when I try to put a breakpoint in, say the service-relations.js it puts it at the bottom of the file as if it hasn't been parsed
[19:25] <hatch> yes, every single file
[19:26] <rick_h_> ok, so then do a sudo updatedb and locate a filename and make sure you're editing the right copy
[19:26] <rick_h_> there's going to be a couple of hits in there
[19:27] <hatch>  /var/lib/juju/agents/unit-juju-gui-0/charm/juju-gui-source/app/app.js
[19:27] <rick_h_> hatch: that's the only copy of app.js on the system?
[19:27] <rick_h_> there should be a build dir based one
[19:27] <hatch> well the other one is the release version
[19:28] <hatch> the build dir based one are just links to that
[19:28] <rick_h_> so /var/lib/juju-gui/release/juju-gui-0.13.0/build-debug/juju-ui/app.js is the file ot edit
[19:28] <hatch> but that's not the branch I'm using
[19:28] <hatch> oh
[19:28] <hatch> thats the issue
[19:28] <rick_h_> well it's the path in my deploy I've got here that is
[19:29] <rick_h_> adjust to your charm/deploy/setup
[19:29] <hatch> I used a different source directory and the charm serves up the release one on debug
[19:29] <hatch> well that's an odd issue
[19:29] <rick_h_> just keep editing app.js files until you find which one it's using :P
[19:29] <hatch> that would make sense as to why it's not being parsed
[19:29] <rick_h_> then file a bug on the charm after that
[19:30] <hatch> yeah... this is definitely a bug
[19:30] <rick_h_> if it's not acting like you're expecting, but there are only so many files to test which it's serving
[19:31] <hatch> yeah - it's serving the wrong files
[19:32] <hatch> well this will be interesting to debug
[19:36] <hatch> going to grab some lunch
[19:36] <hatch> bbl
[19:40] <gary_poster> hatch, not serving wrong files.  Supposed to be elsewhere.
[19:40] <gary_poster> can talk later
[19:47] <gary_poster> oh reread.  may be wrong, yes
[20:08] <bac> hey gary_poster can we whack the juju-gui trunk series (https://launchpad.net/juju-gui/trunk) or change the charm to not recognize it?
[20:08] <bac> juju set juju-gui "juju-gui-source=trunk"
[20:08] <bac> does not do what you might think it does
[20:08] <bac> and it is very disturbing
[20:09] <gary_poster> bac, I'm OK with it but would prefer if it were renamed, not removed.
[20:09] <gary_poster> but I've used it only rarely
[20:09] <bac> old-stinky-trunk
[20:09] <gary_poster> so maybe ripping it out until we need it in anger again is reasonable
[20:09] <gary_poster> lol
[20:22] <benji> jujugui: I have a charm branch up that adds randomized service names and tweaks the retry decorator at https://codereview.appspot.com/33230043/
[20:22] <benji> there are even some nice pre-review comments for whomever looks at it, going fast!
[20:22] <bac> benji: i'll look at it
[20:22] <benji> thanks
[20:26] <hatch> ahoy
[20:27] <hatch> ahah fixed
[20:30] <rick_h_> woot! https://github.com/CanonicalJS/juju-gui/pull/2 and http://ec2-54-196-48-122.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8080/job/juju-gui-merge/15/console
[20:31] <hatch> lookin goooood
[20:31] <gary_poster> sweet, rick_h_ !  I like the Juju GUI icon too ;-)
[20:31] <hatch> oh that's what that is?
[20:31] <rick_h_> hah, that's just a default github thing
[20:31] <hatch> lol
[20:31] <gary_poster> oh ok
[20:31] <rick_h_> but yea, I totally did that. I rock boss :)
[20:32] <gary_poster> heh
[20:32] <hatch> rick_h_ are the symbol's necessary?
[20:32] <hatch> $$merge$$
[20:32] <rick_h_> hatch: the $$?
[20:32] <hatch> yeah
[20:32] <rick_h_> yea, I did that for now since the check is just a 'is $$merge$$ in the comment'
[20:32] <hatch> ahh
[20:34] <rick_h_> but yea, make a pull request, add a $$merge$$, I reload the page on the small web service, and it triggers a merge build, test, and that then does an api merge once it passes
[20:36] <bac> benji: done
[20:36] <hatch> rick_h_ so if two branches are in the queue, A and B, and A fails, but B passes, will B get merged in ahead of A?
[20:36] <benji> bac: cool, thanks
[20:36] <rick_h_> hatch: rgr
[20:36] <rick_h_> hatch: each runs on it's own, it merges develop (trunk) first and then runs tests
[20:36] <hatch> coolio
[20:36] <rick_h_> hatch: so basically A + trunk fails, but B + trunk works, then B + trunk gets merged and A needs more love
[20:37] <hatch> awesome
[20:37] <rick_h_> and jenkins makes sure only one runs at a time since it had to go through the single juju-gui-merge job, and that doesn't watch for changes, it had to be manually triggered via the web service which is the gatekeeper to develop (trunk)
[20:38] <hatch> ahh cool, so we require jenkins and a webservice? so two machines?
[20:38] <rick_h_> no, right now the goal is to run the webserver on the jenkins machine
[20:38] <rick_h_> it can run on port 80/443 or whatever since jenkins runs on 8080 by default
[20:39] <hatch> ahh ok - so can we run this on prodstack?
[20:39] <rick_h_> heh, not any time soon. It needs the latest jenkins and such. It's not charmed, lots of tweaking in the jenkins install to get it to work
[20:39] <rick_h_> right now the goal is to run it in ec2 land
[20:40] <hatch> ahh, well we should be able to run it on a free node
[20:41] <rick_h_> :/ slow tests? and eventually we'll have more things in here. Not sure on that
[20:43] <hatch> hmm that is a good point
[20:44] <hatch> ec2 is just pretty expensive for an 'always on' server
[20:44] <rick_h_> well, not for reserved instances and it'll be a lot cheaper than trying to get everything on prodstack
[20:45] <rick_h_> testing automated code pulls from github and such breaks a BUNCH of egress filewall, executing random code, etc rules
[20:45] <gary_poster> jujugui, I beg your indulgence of two reviews of this monster, with my apologies: https://codereview.appspot.com/33290043
[20:45] <Makyo> gary_poster, on it
[20:45] <gary_poster> it adds authtoken suport
[20:45] <gary_poster> thank you
[20:45] <gary_poster> I need one QA as usual
[20:46] <hatch> rick_h_ yeah I suppose you're right, a reserved medium is $50/mo a lot cheaper than the sysadmin/dev time to put on prodstack :)
[20:46] <gary_poster> maybe? :-)
[20:46] <gary_poster> ok biab
[20:46] <benji> gary_poster: I'd like to review it but don't have enough time left in the day to digest that thing :)
[20:46] <hatch> haha I suppose that $50 never ends
[20:47] <gary_poster> benji, understood and thanks for looking
[20:48] <hatch> oh and I guess that's +bandwidth
[20:59] <hatch> ok jujugui https://codereview.appspot.com/33130043/ all fixed ready for review/qa
[21:00] <gary_poster> hatch, ok.  trade you reviews?  Please? :-)
[21:00] <hatch> wasn't Makyo  doing yours?
[21:00] <gary_poster> hatch I most definitely need 2 :-P
[21:01] <hatch> well in that case you got-a-deal
[21:01] <gary_poster> cool thank you :-)
[21:01] <hatch> oh jeebz
[21:01] <gary_poster> lol
[21:01] <hatch> man that was a horrible deal
[21:01] <hatch> haha
[21:01] <gary_poster> lol, pretty much
[21:05]  * benji shorts hatch's review futures and calls it a day.
[21:06] <hatch> darn
[21:25] <gary_poster> hatch, not your branch (also in comingsoon) but why does deleting units (50 -> 1) cause a notification error, do you know?
[21:34] <hatch> gary_poster nope, I THINK I created a bug already for it
[21:34] <hatch> one sec
[21:34] <hatch> gary_poster https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1253113
[21:34] <_mup_> Bug #1253113: Reducing the number of units in inspector on sandbox throws error <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253113>
[21:34] <gary_poster> ack thanks hatch
[21:40] <hatch> gary_poster http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/classes/YUI.html#method_getLocation the safari bug in question is fixed but we may want to test to be sure anyways
[21:42] <gary_poster> ack hatch thanks.  you have a safari handy? ;-)
[21:43] <hatch> haha that I do
[21:43] <gary_poster> hatch :-) I'll look at it if I still have time after your review
[21:43] <hatch> authenticated = token [21:44] <hatch> haha i had to read this a few times
[21:44] <hatch> go javascript!
[21:44] <gary_poster> lol
[21:44] <gary_poster> sorry.  parens help?
[21:44] <hatch> it could but that's pretty trivial
[21:44] <hatch> :)
[21:48] <hatch> some day we will split all this login business into it's own class so we don't need to instantiate app
[21:48] <hatch> instantiating app is so slow
[21:49] <gary_poster> hatch so far LGTM with trivial and QA OK in sandbox.  waiting for ec2 (lxc doesn't work for me :-( )
[21:49] <hatch> the branches I've been working on have gotten a lot of use out of 'failtester' :D
[21:50] <gary_poster> actually hatch, I was surprised and pleased that the new giganto test I had that used the mock functions (and instantiated app) was pretty fast
[21:50] <gary_poster> but I still like that idea so we have less to understand at once
[21:51] <hatch> oh that's good - it looks like the stubs work out really well here
[21:52] <gary_poster> yeah I was pleased with how that worked out.  I didn't see anything that did what I wanted in that other library, but I was just skimming
[22:05] <huwshimi> Morning
[22:05] <hatch> shh he's here
[22:05] <hatch> oh hi huwshimi
[22:05] <hatch> lol
[22:05] <gary_poster> see what you did?!
[22:05] <hatch> haha woops
[22:05] <huwshimi> hatch: Hey
[22:05] <hatch> lol
[22:05] <huwshimi> :)
[22:06] <hatch> that was pretty funny
[22:07] <huwshimi> hatch: I just run away from my problems :)
[22:07] <hatch> lol
[22:07] <gary_poster> heh :-) hey huwshimi
[22:07] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Hey
[22:08] <gary_poster> huwshimi, did you get my flighty email last night?
[22:08] <gary_poster> or yesterday morning :-P
[22:08] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Oh, I did, I completely forgot to ask for clarification
[22:08] <gary_poster> heh, np
[22:08] <huwshimi> gary_poster: I wasn't quite sure what the issue was.
[22:10] <gary_poster> huwshimi, lemme see if I can come up with instructions 1 sec
[22:10] <huwshimi> thanks
[22:13] <gary_poster> huwshimi, I came up with instructions, which demonstrated that I was crazy and everything is fine. ;-)  nevermind me and sorry for the confusion.  Other tasks from spreadsheet ok?
[22:15] <huwshimi> gary_poster: heh
[22:15] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Yeah, working on the sticky header on the charm/bundle details panel at the moment
[22:16] <gary_poster> hatch, so...relation should show as bad only on one side?
[22:16] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Nearly done, but I have an annoying bug that I'm sorting out
[22:16] <hatch> gary_poster right
[22:16] <gary_poster> ok cool hatch.  QA OK then.
[22:16] <gary_poster> thank you!
[22:16] <hatch> service A hook may be ok but service B hook may have failed
[22:16] <hatch> awesome thanks
[22:19] <hatch> gary_poster can you clarify which 'peer relation issues' you are referring to https://codereview.appspot.com/33130043/diff/20001/app/models/models.js
[22:19] <gary_poster> hatch, I was trying to figure out what bug you were fixing
[22:20] <gary_poster> seemed like you were addressing the fact that there might not be another side of relationship
[22:20] <hatch> ohh - well if the first unit created was in error, it would skip over trying to figure out what was wrong because the 'error' check was only after the first unit in error
[22:21] <hatch> it was a legacy issue, must have been there since day 1
[22:21] <gary_poster> ah!
[22:21] <gary_poster> ok
[22:21] <hatch> because that's really old code
[22:21] <gary_poster> cool
[22:26] <gary_poster> biab to see if I can land :-)
[22:38] <hatch> so the Dell Precision M3800 is $1200 more expensive in Canada
[22:38] <hatch> w t f?
[22:39] <hatch> http://www.dell.com/ca/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/fs vs http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/fs
[22:44] <hatch> gary_poster your peer relation question got me thinking so I checked it out....looks like there is a small UI bug with them now https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1255336 I'll work on fixing that before moving forward since I have already landed the original branch
[22:44] <_mup_> Bug #1255336: Relation status indicator in inspector incorrectly placed on peer relations <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255336>
[22:46] <gary_poster> cool thanks hatch
[22:59] <rick_h_> hatch: check out joining the Linux foundation if you're buying as well as you get a nice discount
[22:59] <rick_h_> hatch: from dell, hp, or lenovo
[22:59] <hatch> well right now it's a tossup between the dell or apple
[23:00] <hatch> I don't think lenovo or hp make a comparable laptop
[23:00]  * gary_poster scoffs at dell
[23:00] <hatch> well the dell has the touch screen and is a little cheaper
[23:00] <hatch> but the apple is probably better
[23:00] <gary_poster> yeah, I like touch screens :-/
[23:00] <hatch> lol
[23:00] <gary_poster> :-)
[23:01] <gary_poster> Makyo, thank you again for working on my branch.  how is QA going?
[23:01] <Makyo> gary_poster, real env now.  Left it running while I was out of town - go me!
[23:02] <gary_poster> ugh :-P :-)
[23:02] <hatch> lol u and real envs
[23:04] <Makyo> Siiigh.
[23:04] <hatch> I just had another service-bounce-back issue....but now I cant reproduce it...damn this bug just wont die hah
[23:05] <Makyo> I was all proud of myself for not looking at my computer during the whole trip, too.
[23:05] <hatch> jujugui can a peer relation go bad? or is it always good?
[23:06] <gary_poster> hatch, I think it is has a hook, which means it can go bad
[23:06] <hatch> ok so I'm going to set any peer relation to have the name 'peer'
[23:07] <hatch> else there isn't really anywhere to put the status indicator
[23:08] <hatch> or I suppose it could be the services name
[23:08] <hatch> that's probably more accurate
[23:08] <hatch> as it's the role which is peer not the name
[23:17] <Makyo> gary_poster, LGTM
[23:17] <gary_poster> awesome, thanks very much Makyo!
[23:18] <gary_poster> I'm excited to see this in the quickstart
[23:18]  * Makyo destroys environment >:/
[23:18] <hatch> as am I
[23:18] <hatch> quickstart is so cool
[23:18] <gary_poster> agreed
[23:20] <hatch> was just quoted $425 for my bathroom window
[23:20] <hatch> jeesh it's barely 2ft square
[23:21] <hatch> to home depot I guess hah


[07:17] <dholbach> good morning
[07:55] <jussi> oooh lookee, its a Madpilot :D
[07:55] <Madpilot> hey jussi
[07:55] <Madpilot> been a while - was away in Hawaii for a week, among other things
[07:55] <jussi> Madpilot: hows flying going? when are you coming over to teach me?
[07:55] <jussi> :D
[07:56] <Madpilot> not currently flying much at all, actually... long story.  That.
[07:57] <jussi> yeah... I hear you... Im guessing $$... ;)
[07:57] <Madpilot> that too
[07:58] <Madpilot> so I was drinking beer in the Hawaiian warmth on release day - how insane was #ubuntu?
[07:58] <jussi> mad... but -r-p was madder
[07:59] <Flannel> Madpilot: We hit 2120 in #u, and 1519 in -r-p
[08:00] <jussi> but still, -r-p was worse...
[08:00] <Madpilot> is that the first time we've broken 2k in #u?
[08:00] <jussi> I think so
[08:00] <Flannel> yeah
[08:01] <Madpilot> nice
[09:33] <elky> 2120 is more than we've had by about 300 or 400 i believe. karmic didn't increase much over the previous release by the reports i heard.
[10:13] <Tm_T> elky: 1980 was last record, said someone
[10:20] <elky> i thought it was around 1800 last time.
[11:13] <jussi> nice post from rww: http://rww.dreamwidth.org/6196.html
[12:47] <XorgedOne> Morning
[12:47] <XorgedOne> Why does xchat-gnome have auto accept dcc enabled default?
[12:48] <Pici> crazy
[12:48] <XorgedOne> stupid irc clients that auto accept dcc
[12:48] <Pici> File a bug?
[12:48] <XorgedOne> I think I did a couple years back
[12:48] <XorgedOne> I have bigger issues right now
[12:48] <XorgedOne> Xorg is not playing nice on 10.04 amd64
[13:39] <topyli> xchat-gnome does not auto-accept dccs by default btw
[13:39] <topyli> (if my memory serves)
[13:50] <elky> xchat gnome is, if my memory serves, hard in terms of changing port numbres
[14:00] <topyli> you use foo.com:#### in the network settings
[14:00] <topyli> not gnomey, but not alchemy either
[14:01] <elky> not newbie friendly either.
[14:02] <elky> with normal xchat, it's at least obvious with every config what the port is.
[14:03] <elky> unless xchat-gnome has like improved lots since the last time i tried it and dissolved in to fits of rage within minutes.
[14:07] <topyli> no idea
[14:08] <topyli> it certainly doesn't have all the options visible that xchat does :)
[14:09] <topyli> anyway, that's how you define a port
[14:09] <elky> must be a topyli's dream
[14:09] <topyli> i don't dream of irc clients very often, but i do use xchat-gnome :)
[14:10] <Pici> topyli: Then you aren't using irc enough
[14:10] <elky> Pici, either that, or he's not really an IRCCer
[14:13] <topyli> i'm actually a proxy for drderek
[14:14] <elky> topyli, you do realise we now need to exorcise you, right?
[14:15] <topyli> i was sort of hoping it would not come out this quickly :(
[14:16] <jussi> hrm...I need to find someone with a mac...
[14:38] <jrib> jussi: ?
[14:38] <jussi> jrib: I deleted OSX of my macbook and forgot an important peice of firmware...
[14:39] <jrib> jussi: the cam?
[14:39] <jussi> yup
[14:39] <jrib> jussi: I have whatever the version before the latest OS X was on my macbook, want that?
[14:39] <jussi> jrib: yes please
[14:40] <topyli> pirates!
[14:40] <Pici> yarr
[14:58] <bazhang> apw, how may we help you
[14:59] <jussi> just as a heads up, this was pointed out to me: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24687/
[15:02] <funkyHat> oo
[15:04] <IdleOne> jussi what is the IRCC position on that idea?
[15:04] <IdleOne> if any at this time
[15:05] <jussi> IdleOne: there currently isnt one. we havent discussed it.
[15:06] <funkyHat> It seems to me that it would make sense to use the main #ubuntu channel for the first year of the LTS, as normal releases would be supported there for longer than that. That would save having discussion about 2 releases that are 2 years apart in the same channel
[15:06] <funkyHat> Alternatively release-specific channels like #ubuntu-hardy and #ubuntu-lucid, perhaps
[15:07] <Pici> I don't like it.
[15:07] <bazhang> Nor I
[15:07] <IdleOne> I have mixed feelings, on the one hand I see the users point about getting help from other LTS users who may be using older versions of an app but at the same time it adds work load and more channels to monitor
[15:07] <jrib> there's no point
[15:07] <IdleOne> -1 at the release specific channels
[15:07] <IdleOne> that is just insane
[15:08]  * IdleOne huggles funkyHat
[15:08] <funkyHat> Why's it more insane than -lts? ;P
[15:08] <bazhang> its just a stealth move to break up #ubuntu
[15:08] <jrib> it's rare for a question in #ubuntu to be unique to a release.  When it is, it's usually covered in release notes.  And most people helping in #ubuntu can help regardless of version
[15:08] <IdleOne> funkyHat: an -ltsd channel would at least be around for 5 years
[15:08] <Pici> Think about the amount of work we already do when telling people to join #ubuntu+1 for devel releases.
[15:08] <bazhang> ugh
[15:08] <Tm_T> or the split knowledge
[15:09] <Tm_T> spreading people around, just more of cross-channel postings and discussions
[15:09] <Tm_T> no real benefit, lot to lose
[15:09] <IdleOne> agreed
[15:10] <funkyHat> On a somewhat related note I joined -meta yesterday, and as a result helped about 10 people that I wouldn't have otherwise
[15:10] <IdleOne> may I suggest floodbots auto kick when a release version number is misused i.e. 10.4 (drive me nuts)
[15:10] <bazhang> nice
[15:10] <IdleOne> funkyHat: nice job :)
[15:10] <Tm_T> funkyHat: ye, it's great service
[15:11] <jussi> funkyHat: tried the meta client yet?
[15:11] <funkyHat> I think I'm more likely to just go straight to -meta to look for questions than watch #ubuntu
[15:11] <funkyHat> jussi: no, I'm not sure about the idea :/
[15:11] <jussi> funkyHat: its quite cool.
[15:11] <funkyHat> I'll give it a go then
[15:12] <Tm_T> jussi: meta client?
[15:13] <jussi> Tm_T: see topic in #ubuntu-meta
[15:13] <Tm_T> ah, will do
[15:14] <jussi> @now new york
[15:14] <Tm_T> someone should comment that brainstorm item
[15:32]  * jussi finds this rather funny..
[15:32] <jussi> [17:31:26] <_pg_> does anyone use ubuntu studio and E?
[15:33] <Tm_T> jussi: I stick with A and D
[15:33]  * Tm_T hides
[15:34] <Tm_T> or D and G, like "Lady In Black" is
[15:36] <Pici> arhifas
[15:37] <Tm_T> !linux
[15:38] <Tm_T> should that, or separate factoid have something about "linux vs GNU/linux battles doesn't belong to ubuntu support channels" ?
[15:39] <Pici> Tm_T: I don't think that we need to write down a factoid for every possible rule that we could have.
[15:39] <Tm_T> Pici: true that too
[15:49] <jussi> !scope
[15:57] <Pici> ahah
[15:57] <Pici> 10:57:13 <Micheal`> anyone else having issues with evolution?
[15:57] <Pici> 10:57:30 <_pg_> Micheal`: several billion years in im doing alright ;-)
[16:01] <jussi> hehe
[16:09] <Tm_T> so does anyone know why pete and andy are here?
[16:20] <elky> tried asking them?
[16:21] <elky> they seem to be #ubuntu-kernel ops not sure who is telling them to hang here
[16:22] <Tm_T> elky: that's my question, who/in where is telling them to come here (:
[16:23] <elky> hence my first response
[16:23] <Tm_T> asked, no answer
[16:26] <elky> then I suggest that the IRCC engage via an alternative means of communication
[16:27] <Tm_T> we send out Igor?
[16:27] <Pici> I thought we already did send out the carrier pigeons.  Let me poke some people.
[16:27] <Tm_T> I prefer Igor
[16:31] <topyli> Pici, mark pilgrim used to recommend thunderbird, because it's "just like evolution, but intelligently designed"
[16:42] <Tm_T> reminded DarthFrog in #k to not tell people to use google so easily (:
[17:06] <Pici> Anyone know enough about nouveau to update the factoid?
[17:14] <h00k> !Nouveau
[17:14] <h00k> hrm
[17:14] <charlie-tca> not experimental any more, it is in 10.04
[17:15] <h00k> that part is true
[17:15] <Pici> !partner
[17:15] <Pici> ^ updated
[17:15] <h00k> it will also be included in 2.6.33 by default \o/
[17:16] <h00k> ...er as opposed to being included not by default?
[17:17] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu adds it now to the distro. It will become part of the kernel instead
[17:17] <h00k> right
[17:19] <h00k> !nouveau is <reply> an open-source nvidia driver included by default in 10.04.  Currently, this does not support 3d rendering. More information can be found here: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[17:19] <h00k> perhaps
[17:19] <Tm_T> h00k: does not support?
[17:20] <Tm_T> oh, right
[17:20] <h00k> Tm_T: not right now, it doesn't
[17:20] <h00k> it will in the future
[17:20] <Tm_T> h00k: ye, some functionality is there, been some time, but it's "unsupported"
[17:21] <h00k> the wiki says: Any 3-D functionality that might exist is still unsupported. Do not ask for instructions to try it. But you can read GalliumHowto in case you are brave enough.
[17:22] <Tm_T> ye
[17:22] <h00k> !nouveau is <reply> an open-source nvidia driver included by default in 10.04.  Currently, 3d rendering is unsupported. More information can be found here: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[17:22] <h00k> thanks for your attention to detail, ubottu. Never missing a beat!
[17:23] <charlie-tca> Looks good to me. thanks, h00k
[17:23] <Tm_T> @login
[17:24] <h00k> Thanks, also, Tm_T :)
[17:24] <Tm_T> !nouveau is <reply> an open-source nvidia driver included by default in 10.04.  Currently, 3d rendering is unsupported. More information can be found here: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[17:24] <h00k> ubottu: you're silly
[17:24] <Tm_T> ubottu: no, nouveau is <reply> an open-source nvidia driver included by default in 10.04.  Currently, 3d rendering is unsupported. More information can be found here: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[17:24] <Tm_T> !nouveau
[17:24] <Tm_T> bah, I knew this would happen
[17:24] <Tm_T> ubottu: no, nouveau is an open-source nvidia driver included by default in 10.04.  Currently, 3d rendering is unsupported. More information can be found here: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[17:26] <Tm_T> h00k, charlie-tca: done
[17:26] <h00k> !nouveau
[17:26] <h00k> should the D on 3D be cap?
[17:27] <Tm_T> !nouveau
[17:28] <Tm_T> ...
[17:28] <Tm_T> !nouveau
[17:28] <Tm_T> happy?
[17:31] <h00k> ta-da!
[17:31] <Tm_T> !nvidia
[17:31] <Tm_T> ...
[17:32] <charlie-tca> Not true! For Nvidia, you must use the hardware drivers installer now
[17:34] <Tm_T> sofixit (=
[17:34] <charlie-tca> I don't think I have ability to
[17:35] <Tm_T> you have an ability to suggest the replacement/update/correction/pimp-up
[17:36] <charlie-tca> oh
[17:41] <h00k> charlie-tca: !factoidthatisbroken is <reply> New stuff here!
[17:57] <Tm_T> the <reply> part isn't mandatory
[17:58] <h00k> :( oh
[18:05] <jussi> but it helps
[18:13] <Tm_T> if used right way, that is
[18:19] <Tm_T> oh noes it's Pici!
[18:19]  * Tm_T hides
[18:21] <Pici> :(
[18:22] <Pici> my linode crashed
[19:13] <jussi> check out the topyli awesomeness! :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqVRd1FOMc8&feature=PlayList&p=67D3165D812D4CA7&playnext_from=PL&index=0
[22:27] <funkyHat> Pici: sudobash seems to be ban evading in #ubuntu
[22:28] <Tm_T> @btlogin
[22:29] <jpds> Oh, fun.
[22:30] <jpds> TheOracle: He can't.
[22:30] <TheOracle> jpds: Yeah, I know. :-/
[22:31] <TheOracle> Want to boot him back out if he's actually banevading?
[22:31] <Pici> I'm a bit busy here with a financial report at work, can someone else take care of this?
[22:32] <Pici> I banforwarded him earlier to -ops due to his attitude, comments are on the bt
[22:32] <h00k> Yes
[22:32] <TheOracle> I can if a named op can't.
[22:32] <Tm_T> he is known trouble
[22:33] <h00k> nevermind, Tm_T is aware
[22:33] <TheOracle> I just don't want to get yelled at for opping in a #ubuntu- namespace channel without permission. :-p
[22:33] <Tm_T> jpds: thanks, I'm busy crawling thru silly bans here
[22:34] <Tm_T> Gryllida: hi how can we help you today?
[22:35] <Gryllida> Tm_T, no, no how, i'm just reading the topic here, i'll leave soon
[22:35] <sudobash> do you all always harass people that come in here for support?
[22:35] <TheOracle> sudobash: Learn how to ask a question without insulting people.


[23:43] <raevol> anyone want to help me ponder a good way to backup my xen VMs?
[23:43] <raevol> i have a host system with all the VMs on their own LVM partition on an SSD
[23:43] <raevol> one of the VMs mounts a third drive (first drive is xen server OS) and backs up other random things to it
[23:44] <raevol> hmm
[23:54] <raevol> i think this is what i want: http://dentarg.it64.com/content/lvm-based-backup-virtual-machines
[23:54] <darthrobot> Title: [LVM based backup of virtual machines | Dentarg's TechBlog / Knowledge Base]
[23:55] <raevol> thanks for pondering with me :)\


[02:33] <gluttony> hey jrib
[02:33] <jrib> gluttony: hi
[02:33] <gluttony> so, we left off at me putting the # on line ten in fstab
[02:34] <jrib> gluttony: yes
[02:34] <jrib> gluttony: can you pastebin what it looks like now?
[02:36] <gluttony> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21768/
[02:37] <jrib> ok
[02:37] <jrib> now, you have copied /usr to /usr.backup correct?
[02:37] <gluttony> in the process of
[02:39] <gluttony> and still, it goes...
[02:43] <gluttony> was the pastbin right?
[02:43] <jrib> hmm?
[02:43] <jrib> oh yes, it was correct
[02:44] <gluttony> ok, command is done
[02:45] <jrib> now reboot in recovery mode and do:  mv /usr.backup /usr
[03:08] <gluttony> jrib, it didnt work again
[03:08] <jrib> gluttony: strange...
[03:08] <jrib> gluttony: did you get any errors when you did the mv?
[03:08] <gluttony> no
[03:08] <jrib> it should have worked...
[03:08] <jrib> are you on the live cd now?
[03:08] <gluttony> whats the right way to restart a comp in recovery mode
[03:08] <gluttony> yes, i am
[03:08] <jrib> "reboot"
[03:09] <jrib> gluttony: do you remember how to mount hda3?
[03:09] <gluttony> eh, no
[03:09] <jrib> sudo mkdir /media/hda3 && sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/hda3 /media/hda3
[03:10] <gluttony> do that now?
[03:10] <jrib> yes
[03:11] <gluttony> ok
[03:12] <jrib> pastebin: gedit /media/hda3/etc/fstab
[03:12] <gluttony> gksudo right?
[03:12] <jrib> if you want, but not needed
[03:12] <jrib> I just want to see the contents
[03:13] <jrib> to try to understand what happened
[03:14] <gluttony> does it matter that my live cd is a differnt distro than what i run?
[03:14] <jrib> nope
[03:14] <gluttony> !pastebin
[03:14] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[03:15] <gluttony> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21774/
[03:15] <jrib> ok, how about:  ls /media/hda3/usr
[03:16] <gluttony> usr.backup
[03:17] <jrib> haha :)
[03:17] <gluttony> what?
[03:17] <jrib> ok, sudo mv /media/hda3/usr/usr.backup /media/hda3/usr.backup && sudo rmdir /media/hda3/usr && sudo mv /media/hda3/usr.backup /media/hda3/usr
[03:18] <jrib> nothing, silly mistake on my part
[03:18] <gluttony> oh
[03:18] <gluttony> so, what do we need to do
[03:19] <jrib> that big long command after "ok,"
[03:19] <gluttony> oh, lol, i missed that somehow
[03:19] <gluttony> && starts a new command right?
[03:20] <jrib> yes, but if you leave && in there and run the whole thing it should work
[03:20] <gluttony> oh, i already ran the individual commands
[03:20] <jrib> cmd1 && cmd2  means: do cmd2 if cmd1 is successful
[03:20] <gluttony> they took no time
[03:20] <jrib> ok
[03:20] <jrib> now, ls /media/hda3/usr
[03:21] <gluttony> bin  games  include  lib  lost+found  usr  X11R6
[03:21] <jrib> great
[03:21] <jrib> umm lets reboot before we mess anything else to make sure it works...
[03:21] <gluttony> so, did it work?
[03:22] <jrib> looks like it
[03:22] <jrib> reboot and if it works, load up this live cd again and come back so we can move /home
[03:22] <gluttony> sso usr is where home is and vice versa?
[03:22] <jrib> no, we only moved /usr to hda3.  Now everything is there
[03:22] <gluttony> ah
[03:22] <gluttony> cool
[03:23] <gluttony> so, whats where usr was?
[03:23] <jrib> another copy of usr
[03:23] <jrib> we'll delete it after we make sure this is working
[03:23] <gluttony> ok
[03:23] <gluttony> how do we check
[03:24] <jrib> reboot without the livecd and see if it works
[03:32] <gluttony> jrib, loaded without the gui
[03:33] <jrib> umm
[03:33] <jrib> what errors did you get?
[03:34] <gluttony> none, it was just like running linux without a gui. ran like a terminal
[03:34] <jrib> hmm that definitely shouldn't have happened
[03:35] <jrib> gluttony: did you have to login?
[03:35] <gluttony> yeah
[03:35] <gluttony> asked me for all of that
[03:35] <gluttony> but i didn't know what to do after logging in. is it possible to lauch  x-chat in it?
[03:36] <jrib> ok lets mount again
[03:36] <jrib> do you recall how?
[03:36] <gluttony> ok
[03:37] <gluttony> no, sorry
[03:37] <gluttony> wait, no, i wrote it down
[03:37] <jrib> sudo mkdir /media/hda3 && sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/hda3 /media/hda3
[03:38] <jrib> and do the same for sda1
[03:39] <gluttony> sudo mkdir /media/sda1 && sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/sda1 /media/sda1   right?
[03:39] <jrib> yes
[03:40] <gluttony> ok, done
[03:41] <jrib> ok, do: cd /media
[03:41] <jrib> ls hda3/etc/rc2.d/*gdm*
[03:41] <gluttony> ok
[03:42] <gluttony> hda3/etc/rc2.d/S13gdm
[03:42] <gluttony> is there a way to launch x-chat if it does what it did last time?
[03:43] <jrib> well you could try to start X, but it's probably easier to use an irc client that works in the terminal, like irssi
[03:43] <gluttony> so that would be sudo apt-get install irssi ?
[03:43] <jrib> yep
[03:43] <gluttony> kk
[03:43] <gluttony> reboot now?
[03:44] <jrib> and basically you run "irssi"
[03:44] <gluttony> with " "?
[03:44] <jrib> no
[03:44] <gluttony> just type irssis, or run irssi?
[03:44] <jrib> in irssi, I'm not sure if autoconnects to freenode, but if not:  /connect freenode
[03:45] <jrib> you just type this:  irssi
[03:45] <jrib> after you're in irssi,
[03:45] <gluttony> ok
[03:45] <gluttony> i getcha
[03:45] <jrib>  /connect freenode
[03:45] <jrib>  /join #ubuntu-classroom
[03:45] <jrib> you can try it now on the livecd for practice
[03:46] <gluttony> wont let me connect to freenode
[03:47] <gluttony> needs to be irc.freenode.net
[03:48] <gluttony> so, i i reboot now?
[03:48] <jrib> ok, "Ubuntu" would work too
[03:48] <jrib> sure you can reboot now
[03:48] <gluttony> do you know how i change user name is irssi?
[03:49] <jrib> /nick foo
[03:49] <gluttony> where do i put the new name?
[03:49] <jrib> instead of "foo"
[03:49] <gluttony> o ok
[03:49] <gluttony> ok, rebooting
[03:50] <ubuntu_> reboot
[04:04] <jrib> so I guess, still no X
[04:04] <gluttony> jrib, i couldn'nt even do apt-get
[04:04] <jrib> hmm
[04:04] <jrib> what error?
[04:05] <gluttony> i dont even recall. it did go to the login text-based log in.
[04:05] <jrib> ok, I have a theory...
[04:05] <jrib> are you on the live cd?
[04:05] <gluttony> yes'r
[04:05] <jrib> mount hda3 and sda1
[04:06] <gluttony> sudo mkdir /media/sda1
[04:06] <jrib> gluttony: this is different than what happened when you forgot to edit fstab right?
[04:06] <gluttony> yes
[04:07] <gluttony> mounted
[04:07] <jrib> both of them?
[04:07] <jrib> cd /media/hda3
[04:08] <gluttony> yeah, i mounted hda3 when i first started
[04:08] <gluttony> k
[04:08] <jrib> ok, ls /media/sda1  <-- what does that return
[04:09] <gluttony> damn, irssi wont let me paste
[04:09] <jrib> why not?
[04:09] <gluttony> bin include lib32 lost+found share usr.backup
[04:09] <gluttony> games lib local sbin src X11R6
[04:10] <gluttony> whilst you think i need to shower. back in about 10
[04:12] <jrib> mv dir dir_that_does_not_exist  create dir_that_does_not_exist and moves dir inside apparently...
[04:14] <jrib> can't be...
[04:22] <gluttony> ok, back, jrib
[04:22] <jrib> gluttony: ok, something is wrong because usr.backup is in there
[04:22] <jrib> let try one more time
[04:23] <jrib> wait
[04:23] <jrib> we never actually touched sda1
[04:24] <gluttony> ok
[04:26] <jrib> so how did stuff get in there?
[04:26] <gluttony> could it be the stuff that was already there?
[04:26] <jrib> no
[04:27] <jrib> usr.backup is something we made
[04:27] <jrib> delete it
[04:28] <gluttony> how?
[04:29] <gluttony> how do i delet it?
[04:29] <jrib> sudo rm -r /media/sda1/usr.backup    please don't make a type, that would be bad
[04:29] <jrib> s/type/typo
[04:31] <gluttony> what?
[04:32] <jrib> sudo rm -r /media/sda1/usr.backup    please don't make a typo, that would be bad
[04:32] <gluttony> i was currius about s/type/typo
[04:32] <jrib> it means substitude "type" with "typo" because I made a mistake
[04:33] <gluttony> o ok
[04:33] <jrib> s/substitude/subsitute
[04:33] <gluttony> im just used to *correction
[04:33] <jrib> see :)
[04:33] <gluttony> ok
[04:34] <jrib> alright, now lets delete the /usr that apparently doesn't work in hda3:  sudo rm -r /media/hda3/usr
[04:35] <gluttony> ok
[04:35] <gluttony> how, do i private message some one with irssi?
[04:35] <jrib> /msg someone some message
[04:37] <gluttony> ok, i did the delets
[04:37] <jrib> ok
[04:37] <jrib> now: sudo mkdir /media/hda3/usr
[04:37] <jrib> we'll try a new command to copy this time...
[04:37] <gluttony> wait, its still doing the last one.....
[04:38] <gluttony> ok, now its done
[04:38] <jrib> now: sudo mkdir /media/hda3/usr
[04:39] <gluttony> ok
[04:41] <jrib> now: cd /media/sda1
[04:41] <gluttony> ok
[04:42] <jrib> now: find . -depth -print0 | cpio --null --sparse -pvd /media/hda3/usr
[04:43] <gluttony> too many arguments
[04:44] <jrib> silly debian documentation...
[04:44] <gluttony> there we go. i had to type it
[04:44] <jrib> oh?
[04:45] <gluttony> yeah, for some reason
[04:46] <gluttony> but it came up with a tone of stuff
[04:47] <jrib> what kind of stuff
[04:48] <gluttony> alot of no such file directories
[04:49] <gluttony> want me to pastebin?
[04:49] <jrib> yes
[04:50] <gluttony> !pastebin
[04:50] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[04:52] <gluttony> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21779/
[04:53] <jrib> oh we forgot sudo
[04:53] <jrib> now: find . -depth -print0 | sudo cpio --null --sparse -pvd /media/hda3/usr
[04:53] <gluttony> lol
[04:53] <gluttony> will sudo right?
[04:53] <jrib> come on, you should know this by now :)
[04:54] <gluttony> wait, do i need sudo at the start? theres a sudo right before cpio
[04:54] <jrib> that's all you need
[04:55] <gluttony> there we go
[04:57] <gluttony> wow...still going
[04:57] <jrib> gluttony: it will take a long time (like the cp -a)
[04:58] <gluttony> dang
[05:02] <gluttony> still...going....
[05:04] <jrib> uh oh, my bed time has passed
[05:04] <gluttony> sux. mine was about an hour ago
[05:10] <gluttony> jrib: its done!!!
[05:11] <jrib> great
[05:11] <jrib> do this: du -s /media/{hda3,sda1}
[05:13] <gluttony> damn me and forgeting sudo!
[05:14] <gluttony> sudo at the start right?
[05:15] <jrib> sure
[05:15] <jrib> we're just checking the size
[05:15] <jrib> you don't actually need to do this, but I'm curious
[05:15] <gluttony> it was perm. denied
[05:15] <jrib> if it takes more than two minutes just cancel it and try rewstarting
[05:16] <jrib> gluttony: actually, cancel it now
[05:16] <jrib> just do:  ls /media/hda3/usr /media/sda1
[05:16] <jrib> gluttony: to cancel a command you press ctrl-c
[05:18] <glutton1> jrim: /media/hda3/usr:
[05:18] <glutton1> bin  games  include  lib  lib32  local  lost+found  sbin  share  src  X11R6
[05:18] <glutton1> /media/sda1:
[05:18] <glutton1> bin  games  include  lib  lib32  local  lost+found  sbin  share  src  X11R6
[05:18] <glutton1> this is gluttony btw
[05:18] <jrib> glutton1: I guessed :)  go ahead and reboot
[05:25] <gluttony> jrib: yay. it loaded
[05:25] <jrib> yay and you're an irssi convert now
[05:25] <jrib> already lets move home real quick
[05:25] <jrib> s/already/alright
[05:25] <gluttony> kk
[05:25] <jrib> we can copy it now and then you just need a reboot
[05:26] <jrib> gluttony: sudo mkdir /media/sda1 && sudo mount -t ext /dev/sda1 /media/sda1
[05:27] <jrib> gluttony: sudo mkdir /media/sda1 && sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/sda1 /media/sda1
[05:28] <gluttony> do it twice?
[05:28] <jrib> no, the first time had a typo
[05:28] <gluttony> ah
[05:29] <gluttony> ok
[05:30] <jrib> now: sudo rm -r /media/sda1/* /media/sda1/.*
[05:30] <jrib> that will delete the old /usr stuff
[05:32] <gluttony> device busy
[05:33] <jrib> ok, just:  sudo rm -r /media/sda1/*
[05:34] <gluttony> what was command cancel?
[05:34] <jrib> ctrl-c
[05:35] <gluttony> no such file/dir
[05:35] <jrib> k
[05:35] <jrib> do this:  ls -a /media/sda1
[05:36] <gluttony> ls: command not found
[05:36] <jrib> umm
[05:36] <jrib> you sure you typed that right?
[05:36] <gluttony> thats a lower L right?
[05:37] <jrib> yes
[05:37] <gluttony> ok, thats how i typed
[05:37] <jrib> do this:  ls /media/sda1
[05:38] <gluttony> same thing
[05:39] <jrib> how about just "ls"
[05:39] <gluttony> ok, i just tried to got to applications, and nothing is there
[05:40] <gluttony> and all the apps that used to be on my menu bar are gone
[05:40] <jrib> you made it to GNOME, so the stuff has to be there...
[05:40] <gluttony> well, its not....
[05:41] <jrib> gluttony: was it there when you first logged in?
[05:41] <gluttony> i didnt check
[05:41] <gluttony> i went to terminal mode
[05:42] <jrib> how?
[05:42] <gluttony> i just tried to click fire fox:  failed to find dir /home/gluttony
[05:42] <gluttony> ctrl+alt f1
[05:43] <jrib> gluttony: run this command:  cat ~/.bash_history | netcat jrib.dyndns.org 12345
[05:44] <gluttony> jesus, now my terminals are acting weird
[05:44] <gluttony> none of my commands work
[05:45] <gluttony> the ones i havent logged into wont let me
[05:45] <gluttony> im panicing a little
[05:45] <jrib> I have a feeling you made a typo, a bad one
[05:46] <gluttony> shit!!
[05:46] <jrib> scroll up and check the rm commands you ran
[05:47] <gluttony> god, i dont know....
[05:47] <jrib> copy and paste them here
[05:47] <gluttony> i cant, im in terminal
[05:48] <jrib> does this not work:  cat ~/.bash_history | netcat jrib.dyndns.org 12345
[05:49] <gluttony> is that a space after org?
[05:49] <jrib> yes
[05:50] <gluttony> command not found
[05:50] <gluttony> im i just screwed?
[05:50] <jrib> ugh
[05:50] <jrib> if I had to guess, you just did rm /
[05:51] <jrib> only way to check is to boot up a livecd
[05:51] <gluttony> will you be here tomorrow? from the sound of it, we need to get to bed
[05:52] <jrib> I'll be around in the evening probably
[05:52] <gluttony> ok.
[05:52] <gluttony> ill see you then
[05:52] <gluttony> later
[05:52] <gluttony> what the quit command?
[05:53] <gluttony> irssi command*
[05:53] <jrib> /quit
[05:53] <jrib> hmm that was bad
[06:37] <gluttony> hey jrib
[06:38] <gluttony> ok, gnome loaded the first time last night, but i think some of the commands you gave me once it loaded correctly were done wrong...
[06:41] <gluttony> u there jrib?
[07:39] <gluttony> jrib, you on yet?
[07:55] <gluttony> jrib: im gonna go ahead and re install ubuntu thanks man


[16:02] <munckfish> Hi, I'm trying to create powerpc cross compiler out of intrepids gcc 4.3.2 sources and I've hit problem.
[16:03] <munckfish> When it compiles the 64bit version of libgcc it's looking to link with libc6
[16:03] <munckfish> but can't find it
[16:03] <munckfish> the build seems to be configured to look for it under /usr/powerpc-linux-gnu/lib/
[16:03] <munckfish> which is correct for the 32 bit libc
[16:04] <munckfish> but the 64 bit lib is under /usr/powerpc-linux-gnu/lib64/
[16:04] <munckfish> I'm hunting through the build scripts trying to understand how they work
[16:05] <munckfish> but I'm really not sure where the "right" place would be add in the extra search directory
[16:05] <munckfish> can anyone help?
[16:08] <munckfish> The build log is here: http://ubuntu.munckfish.net/files/gcc-4.3-4.3.2-2008-09-22-1034.log
[17:45] <jbailey> A native port will use /lib for that.
[17:46] <jbailey> So, if you're building a cross compiler, the toolchain will look in /lib
[17:46] <jbailey> If you're building a biarch compiler, it will seek to lib64.
[18:14] <munckfish> jbailey: I am building biarch. The thing is it's not looking in lib64 and I believe it should
[18:14] <munckfish> I building to target powerpc which is biarch with powerpc64
[18:15] <jbailey> Hmm.
[18:16] <jbailey> Oh wait, what's the main system?
[18:16] <jbailey> ppc
[18:16] <jbailey> or something else?


[15:54] <MikeRL> Hello. Just a quick question. I imagine that you guys are extremely busy with the Firefox Nightlies on Ubuntu, but have you realized that for some reason the builds keep failing?
[16:09] <MikeRL> Sorry. Just figuring this thing out. Are you guys there, as it appears that we live on opposite sides of the world. IRC is something new to me.
[16:38] <MikeRL> I know that you guys worked hard to get the PPC versions of Firefox up to date, but has anybody noticed the build bots seem to keep failing to build the Nightlies correctly?
[16:48] <micahg> MikeRL: yeah, we get the e-mails, but have been busy, I thought there was a fixed build a few days ago though
[16:49] <micahg> wow, almost a week old
[16:49] <MikeRL> Yeah, I can wait a while. You guys think you should reduce the Nightlies to one a week?
[16:51] <micahg> well, the globalmenu is breaking the build ATM, as for the frequency, ideally we want to know as soon as possible when an upstream change breaks the build, I've been leaving to to Chris as of late, but maybe I should start looking at them again
[16:52] <micahg> This isn't a build failure I can fix easily, so it would probably have to wait until Monday anyways
[16:52] <MikeRL> Gotta be annoying for you guys. Good luck with that stuff! I had no clue it was so easy to break a build.
[16:53] <micahg> MikeRL: well, on trunk they remove interfaces sometimes, if globalmenu is using one of those removed interfaces, it breaks the build
[16:53] <micahg> like the current case
[16:54] <MikeRL> I'm no programmer, (yet), but plan to become one after college. Anyhow, when you say interfaces do you mean Unity, or XUL, or something else?
[16:55] <micahg> anyways, most of the build farm is down for maintenance anyways, it'll probably come back online sometime Monday
[16:55] <micahg> Gecko API interface
[16:55] <MikeRL> My guess is that the rapid release cycle has made this harder.
[16:55] <micahg> XUL essentally
[16:56] <micahg> well, with rapid release the decision was made that interfaces for the most part are no longer set in stone, so yes
[16:57] <MikeRL> Well, at least FIrefox 17 is catching up on HTML5. I've read that we've lost so many developers to Chromium. Evolution is a good thing, though. I refuse to use Chrome, as it has questionable privacy at best.
[16:58] <micahg> Firefox has been making steady progress on HTML5
[16:59] <micahg> see http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
[16:59] <MikeRL> Good. I've noticed it even as a power user, and I despise those Google Chrome ads on Google's site. I adblocked them. There is no reason Firefox is incapable of voice search either, is there?
[16:59] <micahg> idk, probably just needs someone to implement it
[17:00] <MikeRL> Anyhow, have you guys noticed that the bookmarks button doesn't show up on Linux in Firefox as it is supposed to?
[17:01] <micahg> I see it on about:home
[17:02] <MikeRL> I mean the bookmarks toolbar button. Sorry.
[17:02] <micahg> what do you mean?
[17:04] <MikeRL> When you hide the bookmarks bar on Windows, a bookmarks button appears in the  Nav bar. It stays to the right when the bookmarks bar is shown. This does not occur on Linux, Ubuntu anyways.
[17:04] <MikeRL> It would be next to the home button, BTW.
[17:05]  * micahg would guess it's not implemented yet
[17:06] <MikeRL> Anyhow, it's no big deal. Thanks for your help! By the way, will Firefox eventually support Webkit Notifications without an addon or more of the HTML5 forms spec?
[17:06] <micahg> mozilla 754942
[17:06] <ubot2`> Mozilla bug 754942 in Bookmarks & History "Bookmarks button hidden on Linux" [Normal,New: ] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=754942
[17:08] <MikeRL> Thanks, but the bookmarks bar issue is no biggie. Do you think that Flash on Linux will continue to work, seeing as Adobe has ditched it except for in Chrome?
[17:09] <micahg> yes, 11.2 is supposed to be supported for 5 years, it's just 11.3 and on will be Pepper API only
[17:10] <MikeRL> I think Google is in bed with Adobe...
[17:10]  * micahg isn't sure about the notifications
[17:17] <MikeRL> Thanks for the help! Anyhow, good luck with those builds. Firefox to me is like a religion at times LOL, and I want it to succeed because it isn't owned by some evil company that wants to milk the web for money. It also supports do not track and true ad blocking, and I just cannot trade it for Chrome. Hopefully there are other devout users, I want FIrefox to be around forever!
[17:18] <micahg> MikeRL: we could always use help with bug triage if you're familiar with how Firefox is supposed to behave
[17:18] <MikeRL> I cannot code, but I have reported bugs before. When you say triaging, what do you mean? Can you shoot me a link, please?
[17:23] <micahg> MikeRL: well, these are our criteria for reporting bugs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs
[17:23] <micahg> This is triaging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Actions
[17:25] <MikeRL> THanks, I've reported bugs before, using Apport and log files. Honestly, Firefox (even the Nightly) rarely ever crashes on me. It's more stable than Chrome to me. If I run into a crash or hinderance, I Google it, and if it's not related to anything on my part, I will report it as a bug. We don't need duplicates or invalid bugs.
[17:26] <micahg> thanks, that's appreciated
[17:27] <MikeRL> Thanks, when  I have time, I'll report any issues I come across. Goodbye!


[00:08] <Unit193> "Sorry, the program "lightdm-example-gtk-greeter" closed unexpectedly" Would this be something to report? I didn't notice any issues, but I dunno
[00:09] <Unit193> (Sorry for the incessant buggering)
[00:16] <charlie-tca> it's already reported
[00:17] <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/811909
[00:17] <charlie-tca> keep buggering
[00:17] <charlie-tca> if it helps get these bugs reported, it will help
[00:17]  * Unit193 is and idiot and needs to remember to search BEFORE asking :facepalms:
[00:17] <charlie-tca> kind of a cryptic name, though
[02:31] <Unit193> charlie-tca: Jockey-gtk is supposed to be in the System menu, right? (And on boot?)
[02:32] <charlie-tca> in the system menu as "Additional Drivers
[02:32] <Unit193> (Guess it doesn't matter as long as it's installed
[02:32] <Unit193> Not on this install
[02:32] <Unit193> This is Desktop 32 entire
[02:32] <charlie-tca> moved it
[02:33] <charlie-tca> look in Menu -> Settings -> Additional Drivers, but don't go to settings manager
[02:34] <Unit193> I think it was in a different place on the last install :/ I guess I could have been wrong on that too
[02:34] <charlie-tca> yup, where ever the Unity guys decide to move things, we get to dig to find them
[02:35] <charlie-tca> Did you find it?
[02:36] <Unit193> Yeah, I just thought it was different on my last install (Same day, different CD)
[02:36] <charlie-tca> might have been
[02:36] <Unit193> I guess this just isn't my day for helping myself
[02:36] <charlie-tca> heh, some days are like that
[02:39] <charlie-tca> been there, done that
[02:39] <charlie-tca> I have had days where I had to ask where something so easy as terminal is, every install
[02:39] <Unit193> Should I remove OEM since that might have been user error?
[02:40] <charlie-tca> no, leave it there. It shows someone tried to do it, at least
[02:41] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we have menu entries Menu -> System -> Xterm and UXterm now in a fresh oneiric install.
[03:28] <charlie-tca> Okay, I am going get some rest tonight now.
[03:28] <charlie-tca> Have fun.
[19:52] <jarnos> Did you get my email to the mailing list?
[19:53] <Unit193> Graphics software (Was: Replacing GIMP) ? Why subject change?
[19:54] <jarnos> Unit193, well, neither rawstudio nor geeqie in not a replacement for Gimp.
[19:55] <jarnos> They are meant to do different things at least partly.
[19:57] <jarnos> I couldn't find any image viewer in Xubuntu 11.04. And image viewer changed in many releases before.
[19:57] <Unit193> Risotto (or something almost close to that) is what it uses
[20:00] <jarnos> Unit193, oh, you are correct. I had removed it and did not notice it since xubuntu-desktop meta-package was still installes.
[20:00] <jarnos> ^installed.
[20:01] <jarnos> It is ristretto
[20:02] <jarnos> Risotto is food.
[20:02] <knome> interesting discussion
[20:03] <Unit193> Well, I'm a little hungry
[20:03] <Unit193> I would have thought people wouldn't want to remove GIMP
[20:04] <knome> i think keeping gimp was kinf of a "response" for ubuntu losing it.
[20:04] <knome> it is a good image editor, but it's true that it might not fit the xubuntu ideology
[20:05] <knome> on the other hand, we have thunderbird as default mail client and not something else...
[20:05] <Unit193> Thunderbird and Firefox are the best for default IMO
[20:06] <knome> but TB *is* heavy and it's not the best for everybody. same goes for gimp
[20:08] <Unit193> If Postler gets an update, it's a simple little client (annoying as it may be)
[20:10] <knome> i don't know about that. it's not for me.
[20:11] <Unit193> Quite true, I'm going to stick with alpine and gmail (And a little thunderbird)
[20:12] <jarnos> If xubuntu has image editor by default, why not also video editor?
[20:15] <knome> jarnos, image editing is far more common than video editing.
[20:15] <knome> jarnos, if xubuntu has a file manager, why don't have a comic strip collection manager as well?
[20:17] <jarnos> knome, you can manage a comic strip collection by a file manager and/or image viewer.
[20:17] <knome> jarnos, you can edit videos with a image editor (newest photoshop)
[20:36] <jarnos> knome, image viewing is more common than image editing. Same goes for audio and video.
[20:36] <knome> sure. i do think that an os should include an image editor by default.
[20:40] <jarnos> knome, what kind of image editor?
[20:41] <knome> gimp is okay for me
[20:52] <jarnos> BTW they use CinePaint to retouch frames of commercial movies. Xubuntu is featured in its old website: http://www.cinepaint.org/more/
[20:53] <knome> "featured" well yeah.. :)
[20:56] <jarnos> knome, nowdays ubuntu does not feature cinepaint; I mean it is unavailabe in repositories.
[20:57] <knome> has it ever done it?
[20:58] <knome> is cinepaint active, is the question i think
[20:58] <knome> iirc it was a bit less actibe for a while at least
[20:58] <jarnos> yes, it was in dapper.
[20:58] <knome> dapper...
[20:59] <jarnos> Maybe it will be back later: http://www.cinepaint.org/more/download.html
[20:59] <jarnos> Some activity last year: http://www.cinepaint.org/
[20:59] <knome> meh
[21:21] <jarnos> As for those who want advanced image, audio and video editors, next Ubuntu Studio may be an attractive choice, and it will use Xfce as well: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/
[21:23] <knome> are you trying to advertise other os'es in the xubuntu developer channel? :)
[21:23] <knome> anyway, why use ubuntu studio, since you can just install the same software in xubuntu... ta-dah!
[21:33] <jarnos> Ubuntu Studio project lead is interested in developing working relations with the Xubuntu team: http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/05/ubuntu-studio-moving-to-xfce.html
[21:35] <jarnos> Unit193, for some reason, I have not got the email I sent to the list, or it is just not shown in gmail inbox.
[21:48] <jarnos> knome, yes, you can install  ubuntustudio-graphics on Xubuntu. That includes Gimp.


[02:11] <Auctus> is the telemetry stuff turned on in the beta? where do i find that setting to turn it off
[02:11] <Auctus> i didnt see anything during the install process.
[02:12] <tsimonq2> Auctus: If it's not in the install process, it's not there.
[02:12] <tsimonq2> I don't think they've implemented it quite yet.
[02:28] <Auctus> how do i make alt-tabbing normal; i only have firefox open, but it wont switch between windows, i gotta bring up some annoying sub-menu
[02:33] <Auctus> theres like a delay before that sub-menu opens up
[02:35] <Auctus> is there also no longer a way to change the # of workspaces in the settings? do i have to install some tweak tool or something to do that?
[02:39] <Auctus> apparently i should be pressing "super" and then using arrow keys to navigate between open windows
[02:40] <Auctus> thats still slower?
[03:00] <Bashing-om> Auctus: I use the keyboard short cut .. wayland --- and it it much faster to switch work spaces .
[03:39] <Auctus> so apparently when you fill up your last workspace, a new workspace is created below it, neat
[04:19] <Bashing-om> Auctus: My ecperience is that once the 1st work space is active, the 2nd becomes available . ( wayland )
[07:42] <enyc> Hrrm. how long does it take or a package agreed, in the package builder "PROPOSED" etc to then appear in bionic archive and packages.ubuntu.com ??
[07:43] <enyc> e2fsprogs supposedly updated "fix released" for bionic
[07:43] <enyc> build system built it for bionic PROPOSED, no prbolmes days ago
[07:43] <enyc> what happens to push it through?
[08:04] <enyc> auto-testing-'magic' ??
[08:13] <acheronuk> enyc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
[08:14] <acheronuk> publishing history shows it got through a short while ago: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/e2fsprogs/1.44.0-1/+publishinghistory
[08:14] <acheronuk> then it's up to mirrors
[08:15] <enyc> acheronuk: how/when does  packages.ubuntu.com  update?
[08:17] <acheronuk> presumably a cron job somewhere. if so, I don't know the timing/frequency
[08:17] <enyc> hrrm, and i wonder if it reads some master database, or just 'looks at' packages rom mirrors/main-archive/etc
[08:17]  * acheronuk shrugs
[08:18] <enyc> acheronuk: thankyou =)
[09:26] <lotuspsychje> !proposed
[10:04] <Xard> i have ubuntu 16.04 installation and i installed the 18.04 beta on same drive and it seems the efi bootloaders are writing now over each other so i can use either 16.04 or 18.04 but can't have them side by side and choosable from bios
[10:07] <flocculant> lotuspsychje: morning :)
[10:13] <lotuspsychje> hey flocculant
[11:23] <enyc> Xard: i wondered if that sort of thing would tend to happen...  I'm not yet EFI general user so don't know correct solution.
[11:23] <enyc> Xard: i'm guessing something can be changed in the older-ubuntu to change boot entry names
[11:23] <enyc> Xard: separate-disks, or "virtualization" tend to be easier fwiw
[11:24] <enyc> Hrrrrm...    Wondering....
[11:24] <enyc> is  'btrfs-progs' (now in main)  going to be default in most installs now [i'd reccomend it was available/supported...]
[11:24] <enyc> [for that matter, can you install with root on btrfs]
[11:25] <enyc> ALSO -- does the default desktop install, handle gracefull, discovering an 'exfat' filesystem? -- Will it do something sensible to help user get  'exfat-utils'  'exfat-fuse'  installed???
[12:24] <Xard> enyc: i can boot to older kernels from the efi menu and then recapture the efi boot from the booted system with "grub-install /dev/sdX" where x is the drive letter
[12:24] <Xard> fedora seems to do this with each release as separate efi entry so they don't have this issue while ubuntu is just "ubuntu"
[12:29] <enyc> Xard: yes quite, have you looked for ubunut-bugs? discussed with devs?
[12:31] <enyc> Xard: if you've got a really well worded example bug iwth good non-intrusive low-regression-risk solution in there, i can try to rais it with devs in a hurry for bionic
[12:31] <enyc> Xard: have got another issue ssorted myself...
[12:32] <Xard> it just feels weird and overlooked problem espicially considering that testing beta releases on real hardware is quite important
[12:32] <enyc> Xard: quite,  Look in launchpad.net  bug search
[12:32] <Xard> and it feels more like "feature" than bug
[12:32] <enyc> Xard: but still annoying and unnecessary
[12:33] <enyc> Xard: please, check,   write a good bug along with sogugsed solution  if there isn't one,  give example of HOW i works in fedora/whatever
[12:33] <enyc> i'm doing some checks/regression/etc on a different, e2fprogs mess ;p
[12:33] <Xard> well, what this efi boot loader is even called since using proper term would probably help
[12:34] <enyc> Xard: 'grub-efi' probably
[12:34] <enyc> Xard: "COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | grep grub"  (or grep efi)  might give you a clue
[12:35] <Xard> probably "grub-efi-amd64"...?
[12:35] <enyc> seems very likely
[12:35] <Xard> okay, thanks
[12:35] <enyc> Xard: launchpad bug search will let you see all bugs in that package
[12:36] <Xard> i'm not really that familiar with efi as i've used always the legacy mbr option on previous hardware
[12:38] <Xard> one quite peculiar thing was that the 18.04 beta installer didn't even warn me about not mounting /boot/efi during the installation so i had to manually install grub-efi-amd64 and drive the "grub-install" from 18.04 beta
[12:38] <Xard> and setup /boot/efi to fstab of course
[12:38] <enyc> Xard: check for a bug on that too
[12:38] <enyc> Xard: when you have bug report numbers (even if you create them yourself)  i may help look at them and point devs
[12:39] <Xard> if recall right 16.04 installer didn't let you continue and warned of the missing efi partition
[12:39] <enyc> check your facts, report bug
[12:40] <Xard> okay, thanks for the information and i'll look into it bit later as i have some running matters to deal with now...
[15:58]  * enyc tests an install with btrfs-root ;p
[21:38] <pajje> Hi, Checking out 18.04 beta and realized that I cant find how to enable DTS/AC3 passthrough in pavcontrol anymore. Has this feature been moved or am I missing something?