[06:45] <mgraesslin> good morning
[08:02] <yofel> moin
[08:08] <soee_> hiho yofel
[08:56] <vip> hi ho
[08:56] <vip> do you hate kmail2 as much as I do?
[08:57] <soee_> -.-
[08:57] <soee_> i do not know i'm not using it
[08:58] <soee_> maybe if the interface would be simpler and more user friendly
[08:58] <soee_> i'm on thunderbird for a long time
[09:21] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:23] <mparillo> !testers
[10:24] <mparillo> New beta images are up: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/358/builds
[10:25] <vip> got it!
[10:27] <mparillo> vip: You must have a better connection. My zsync is running about 2.3 MB/sec
[10:28] <vip> got it... for testing :)
[10:29] <vip> 8MB/s here, quite fast
[10:29] <vip> still downloading
[10:31] <vip> but as I see, there's still bugs
[10:31] <vip> installer not started, and the destop folder is too small
[10:42] <soee_> woho new images
[10:42] <soee_> zsynincg
[10:43] <soee_> yiu have to good connections :<
[10:44] <vip> soee_: don't even start
[10:45] <soee_> i have 1.2 MB/sec max
[10:57] <soee_> vip: ping
[11:04] <vip> pong
[11:08] <soee_> vip: did you testes new builds >
[11:08] <soee_> teh bug with not starting ubuquite still exists no ?
[11:10] <clivejo> when I use dch to increment to a particular version, why is it signing the entry with the previous person?
[11:11] <vip> [11:31] <vip> installer not started, and the destop folder is too small
[11:24] <clivejo> if I use "dch --newversion 5.20.0" surely that should use my name and email in the changelog?
[11:29] <yofel> clivejo: that depends on what DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC is set to and whether the last changelog is UNRELEASED
[11:33] <clivejo> grrr
[11:34] <yofel> see manpage
[11:35] <clivejo> I have seen it
[11:35] <yofel> I think you want a different heuristic and --increment. Then you can make it add a new changelog in any case
[11:36] <clivejo> but it must be because the previous version is UNRELEASED
[11:36] <yofel> yes, but you can make it ignore that
[11:36]  * clivejo is trying to build frameworks from Neon/Unstable
[11:37] <vip> soee_: and?
[11:38] <clivejo> I can do them manually, but was trying to hack the script (to better understand it)
[11:39] <yofel> ok wait
[11:39] <yofel> put DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC=log into ~/.devscripts and try again
[11:39] <clivejo> yofel: its not important, just playing about
[11:40] <yofel> well yes, but when I read maunally and script in one line I hear alarm bells :P
[11:41] <clivejo> is this command right "dch --newversion 5.20.0-0ubuntu1 -D xenial -m "New Upstream Release 5.20""
[11:41] <yofel> although debchange handling is a bit annoying if you stray from the default workflow
[11:41] <yofel> wrong quoting, but otherwise yes
[11:42] <clivejo> whats the right way?
[11:42] <yofel> put single quotes around the changelog part
[11:43] <yofel> otherwise you have a syntax error
[11:44] <clivejo> still signing it off as you :(
[11:45] <clivejo> https://paste.kde.org/pskij4zlt
[11:45] <yofel> hm..... I've seen that happen actually....
[11:46] <clivejo> there should be a --sign_as_me
[11:47]  * clivejo kicks dch
[11:47] <yofel> according to the manpage, you have something set wrong, because that behavior is the last-resort-fallback
[11:47] <vip> what's the new email client for kde? I've read some news, but canno remember the name
[11:48] <soee_> kmail :)
[11:48] <clivejo> kontact
[11:49] <clivejo> its released as a suite
[11:49] <vip> no no, not kmail
[11:49] <vip> new project
[11:50] <clivejo> Kube?
[11:50] <snele> vip: trojita?
[11:50] <snele> http://trojita.flaska.net/
[11:50] <soee_> it isnt new
[11:51] <clivejo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlLEiqjbw4A
[11:52] <clivejo> https://cmollekopf.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/the-year-of-kube/
[11:52] <vip> oh, it was kube i suppose
[11:52] <clivejo> I dont think we will see anything for a while
[11:55] <yofel> "Note that Akonadi Next has been renamed to Sink to avoid confusion"
[11:55] <yofel> yeah, I am totally less confused now
[11:55] <clivejo> me too
[11:55] <clivejo> crystal clear
[11:56] <vip> I would be very happy after uninstalling akonadi
[11:56] <clivejo> Im actually impressed with the lastest version
[11:56] <yofel> at least you'll be able to "flush your mails down the sink" in the future I guess
[11:57] <clivejo> seems a lot faster
[11:57] <clivejo> I have a lot of different accounts and it seems to retrieve and cache them a lot faster these days
[11:58] <clivejo> does anyone use diaspora?
[11:59] <soee_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJXgTsSgSP8
[12:00] <soee_> email client can be pretty nice
[12:06] <marco-parillo> I am running the new Beta RC now. Wireless works. Firefox works (but the Favorites menu is empty). It boots straight to the live session, instead of the choice to try / install. I prefer that behavior (since I run live sessions frequently (say for on-line banking), but only install once), but it does not match the test case. On my display the install icon is actually bigger than the desktop folder container.
[12:13] <soee_> marco-parillo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-settings/+bug/1560404
[12:13] <soee_> and ye sit boots straight to live session  = bug also
[12:13] <soee_> it was reported in previous beta build and not ficed since then
[12:17] <marco-parillo> Thanks. soee_ I have added the bugs to my test report: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/358/builds
[12:18] <soee_> marco-parillo: thank you
[12:18] <marco-parillo> As I wrote, I actually prefer to boot straight to the live session
[12:18] <marco-parillo> But it is a bug if the behavior does not match the test case (although, I suppose we could re-write the test case ;-) )
[12:20] <soee_> yup you shoudl find that one and add also
[12:20] <soee_> marco-parillo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1560356
[12:21] <soee_> add this one, it was added for previous tests
[12:21] <soee_> hmm
[12:21] <soee_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-settings/+bug/1560404
[12:22] <soee_> ^ this one :D
[12:22] <soee_> wait no
[12:22] <soee_> it was the previous one
[12:22] <soee_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1560356
[12:28] <marco-parillo> Thanks soee_ I had the other two, but I added bug 1560459 (which looks to be the root cause of not getting the try/install option) to my test results.
[12:29] <marco-parillo> Off to work.
[12:48] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[13:06] <soee_> hehe :D
[13:06] <soee_> the comment http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-6-desktop-environment-officially-released-here-s-what-s-new-502046.shtml
[13:07] <yofel> as a general FYI:
[13:07] <yofel> mysql 5.7 was accepted in xenial and should be available soon (in case someone hits akonadi issues)
[13:07] <yofel> clivejo, sgclark: The cmake FFE got approved, so we'll soon get 3.4 or 3.5 in xenial. I did a rebuild of the core stuff myself and I think we're fine
[13:08] <yofel> fun indeed. RAAAAAAAAAAGE
[13:09] <BluesKaj> is the Xenial plasma 5.6 available yet ?
[13:10] <soee_> yes!
[13:10] <mamarley> soee_: Uh, no.
[13:41]  * clivejo looks for his trout
[13:42]  * mamarley hands clivejo a large, freshly-caught trout.
[13:43]  * clivejo smiles
[13:43] <clivejo> let do some trout slapping!#
[13:46] <clivejo> yofel: RAAAAAAAAAAGE ?
[14:00] <yofel> clivejo: in response to the softpedia comment
[14:02] <clivejo> plasma 5.6?
[14:04] <yofel> yup
[14:04] <clivejo> hows xenial shaping up?
[14:05] <yofel> mparillo, soee_: did one of you try the installer again?
[14:06] <soee_> yofel: when ?
[14:06] <yofel> on the daily image
[14:06] <soee_> i tried few hours ago when new builds were avaialbel
[14:06] <soee_> it had the same bug
[14:06] <yofel> could you then please mark at least one of the install tests as failed?
[14:07] <yofel> currently it looks like there's no really major issues with the images
[14:12] <yofel> and unrelated to the iso images - anyone there that wants to do upgrade testing? The test cases are there now. (Both from 15.10 and 14.04)
[14:18] <yofel> except that the test case title is the wrong one o.O
[14:18] <yofel> (when did we last edit that?!?)
[14:25] <marco-parillo> yofel: The live image basically worked for me. I marked the three bugs here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/358/builds
[14:25] <yofel> were you able to successfully install it?
[14:25] <marco-parillo> I can try to kick off the installer from the live image if nobody has done that recently.
[14:26]  * yofel just updated the upgrade test cases
[14:26] <yofel> or hm, I need to do this differently
[14:32] <yofel> there we go
[14:50] <genii> Is there yet a tentative timeline for plasma 5.6 in Xenial?
[14:52] <BluesKaj> it's avaiolable for 15.10 and but 15.10.totally broke on my pc after a kernel upgrade
[14:53] <mamarley> BluesKaj: It is?  Are you talking about KDE Neon?
[14:54] <soee_> genii: nope
[14:55] <genii> soee_: OK, thanks :)
[14:55] <BluesKaj> mamarley, nope, https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[14:57] <mamarley> BluesKaj: Huh?  I only see Plasma 5.5.4 for Wily and Plasma 5.3.2 for Vivid.
[14:57] <BluesKaj> mamarley, there was a kernel module installed for nvidia on my pc that broke X if that's what youwere referring to about 15.10
[14:58] <BluesKaj> mamarley, click on tecnical details...
[15:06] <sgclark> morning. Actually got 8 hours of sleep.. but I feel like I missed something, do we have shiny isos to test?!
[15:17] <BluesKaj> 'Morning sgclark, I haven't seen anything "shiny" yet.
[15:18] <marco-parillo> sgclark: Yes, but I noted the same three bugs as yesterday at: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/358/builds
[15:20] <BluesKaj> with all the publicity about plasma 5.6 I'm surprised it hasn't "landed" in the Xenial ppas yet
[15:21] <mamarley> They are too busy working on the Xenial release.
[15:21] <sgclark> BluesKaj: we can work on shiny new stuff or actually release a stable LTS
[15:21] <sgclark> one or the other, too few to do both
[15:21] <sgclark> I choose stable LTS
[15:22]  * BluesKaj nods, understood, sgclark
[15:22] <sgclark> I too like shiny stuff, and after release there will be lots. This being an LTS bumps stable importance
[15:23] <BluesKaj> OMG Ubuntu had alink saying it was available there
[15:23] <BluesKaj> backaports
[15:23] <sgclark> lol yeah I have no clue who their source is...
[15:23] <sgclark> not us obviously
[15:23] <mamarley> They probably pulled it out of their butts.  Sites like that are just trying to make money from pageviews.
[15:24] <BluesKaj> any word about Kubuntu carrying on after 16.04 LTS?
[15:31] <yofel> well, we don't intend to vanish, and we'll have to support 16.04 for the next 5 years anyway
[15:31] <yofel> what exactly we'll be doing in the future is open though
[15:31] <sgclark> what yofel said
[15:31] <yofel> bug 1561051 is what I'm getting when I try to run the live session...
[15:32] <yofel> I don't really get *what* fails here
[15:35] <yofel> On the positive side, the installer seems to work again
[15:36] <sgclark> gonna test on the new laptop donated to me!
[15:38] <sgclark> of course with my super awesome internet speeds this week, that will be in an hour :(
[15:39]  * sgclark drinks more coffee
[15:39] <BluesKaj> sgclark, dsl ?
[15:41] <sgclark> comcast cable. absolutely horrible ISP but they have no competition...
[15:42] <yofel> why does our slideshow link to userbase.kde.org o.O
[15:42] <sgclark> wasn't that where we moved our doc or something?
[15:42] <BluesKaj> I could have a faster internet , but it's expensive here in the semi-boonies with no real competition for the cable co, so they charge thru the nose for 20Mb speeds
[15:42] <yofel> maybe, but don't we have website section for that?
[15:43] <sgclark> oh probably. wasn't ahoneybun the one that worked on the slideshow?
[15:44] <yofel> maybe... lets see what he has to say
[15:49] <yofel> hm... we have no default favorites in kickoff - I have the feeling that there are supposed to be some...
[15:53] <rdieter_work> yofel: fwiw, i've seen that occasionally for fresh users on fedora too, I suspect something going wrong with plasma-desktop script :  ./desktoppackage/contents/updates/obsolete_kickoffrc.js  (haven't filed any bug yet, but will soon)
[15:54] <yofel> rdieter_work: interesting, thanks. I *think* we have our own override of that, but the failure might still be the same
[15:56] <rdieter_work> yofel: well, we override the default favorites too, but seems that script botches things so it (often, not always?) ends up blank
[15:57] <yofel> meh
[15:57] <rdieter_work> if I remove that script, I see favorites appear reliably (on initial login)
[16:05] <rdieter_work> yofel: found already reported, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357029
[16:05] <yofel> thanks
[17:01] <marco-parillo> yofel: Do you need a launchpad bug for KDE bug 357029?
[17:02] <yofel> probably not... I think that's obvious enough so that we won't forget about it
[17:03] <marco-parillo> Yes, I mentioned the missing favorites in my test report.
 We did move the docs to userbase before we had the website up though @Yofel
[19:06] <lordievader> No testers for i386?
[19:07] <lordievader> Lets give 32bit some love :D
[19:21] <lordievader> The 32bit image also suffers from the desktop folder widget being very small. Is there a bug report for this?
[19:21] <lordievader> To answer my own question, bug 1560404
[21:23] <keithzg> lordievader: I was planning on spinning up a VM and running some of the tests, I'll give i386 a shot then :)
[21:26] <lordievader> keithzg: Please do, was a bit too tired to do a full testing round.
[21:26]  * sgclark tries wily upgrade
[21:43] <clivejo> does anyone use KVM?
[21:46] <sgclark> not really
[21:46] <clivejo> what you use?
[21:46] <sgclark> I think some of the kde servers do, but I am not involved in creating or handling it
[21:46] <sgclark> personally I use vagrant and docker
[21:47] <clivejo> Id reckon KVM would be closer to the actual machine
[21:47] <sgclark> and schroot
[21:47] <sgclark> virtualbox is what vagrant uses, and I don't see it as any different than hardware in most of my use cases


[11:15] <mup> Bug #1286360 changed: Deleting SSH keys is confusing through maas CLI <cli> <MAAS:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286360>


[05:10] <studiobot> DaveWho was added by: DaveWho
[05:14] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer, EthanTestsLife: in a way we have... any flavour + ubuntustudio-installer will at some time yeild the same result.
[06:13] <tarzeau> Eickmeyer: ok , i can stay here anyways i guess?
[14:06] <studio-user578> Hi, i found 2 things curious in the latest (18.10) ubuntu studio. first is most fn (hot keys) are not working on my asus. this is a recurring theme in linux land i guess but i its easily solved by adding the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin to the panel and add the correspondent commands to its (pactl). is there a reason why this plugin was not shipped in the first place? second, when the screen blanks out after an user idle peri
[14:06] <studio-user578> sound still plays though
[14:21] <sakrecoer> studio-user578: probably when the screen blanks out, it's just the power saver of the screen, not hibernation you can find those settings in the power manager inside system settings
[14:22] <sakrecoer> for the FN keys, i don't know. It has always worked for me so far...
[14:22] <sakrecoer> eventually the "window" button or whatever it is called can be a pita.
[14:23] <sakrecoer> and the mac "edit/apple" button is also tricky AFAIR, but last time i had to deal with that one was 2010...
[14:28] <studio-user578> sakrecoer: yeah, my bet is the powersaver too.  Thats not the real problem, it can powersave :) as long as the music keep on playing, but the screen doesn't turn on again.... thats kind of the problem.
[14:30] <studio-user578> and for the fn keys, this laptop is from 2013... :P so that might explain it.. still though, the official ubuntu didn't had this problem... but then again, long live ubuntu studio ;)
[14:31] <studio-user578> and the windows key doesn't work with these function keys or hot keys either...
[14:33] <studio-user578> just saying ;P since its so easy to fix. and xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin is a better choice, i don't know... thought like give it a try here... these small things make a world of difference for new users...
[14:35] <studio-user578> and well xfce4 in general, for a media distro like this, is the best choice in my opinion.
[14:41] <studiobot> EthanTestsLife was removed by: EthanTestsLife
[15:05] <studio-user578> something else: does anyone know why firefox youtube stops playing when I enable jackaudio via the qjackctl?
[15:12] <studio-user159> sorry was thrown out... when testing for another jack/firefox setup, but that didn't work either
[15:13] <tempest> Hi nice to meet you all and thanks for reading this question. I'm quite new to the Linux operating system and I was just wondering how different this distro is to standard Ubuntu? I think it might be a little bit easier for me to find a book on how to use the standard system than this one and if it's all transferable information that would be fantastic. I've been trying to study the studio wiki but it feels a little bit incomplete in
[15:13] <tempest>  places, thanks again
[15:13] <studio-user159> so, when i start jackaudio via the qjackctl firefox doesn't play any movies. not from youtube, not vimeo. when I clock stop in qjackctl it immediatly starts playing, which is kinda wierd.
[15:15] <studio-user159> @tempest: check youtube. they have fantastic videos about starting with ubuntu for novice and advanced users.
[15:16] <studio-user159> should take you no longer then a day to start playing and a week to go into the next level: the terminal
[15:17] <tempest> Well I'm studying a book for beginners at the moment and it's only covered the terminal so far. It's been fun learning but really I'd much rather be learning how to get my guitar hooked up to this :)
[15:18] <tempest> I'm a little bit unfocused at the moment I think, it's all so new and theres so much to learn
[15:18] <studio-user159> check youtube again and search for demonic sweaters. he has some good info on this stuff
[15:20] <tempest> thanks I'll subscribe to them :)
[15:22] <studio-user159> also : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNvGUqOS1GiApBy78FKzlEw
[16:07] <OvenWerks> studio-user159: If you use qjackctl to start jack, you will probably have to manually change pulse audio's default output to jack_sink.
[16:07] <OvenWerks> using ubuntustudio-controls might be better
[16:08] <studiobot> Fred Garvey was added by: Fred Garvey
[16:08] <OvenWerks> (If you have the new version of ubuntustudio-controls)
[16:10] <studiobot> <Fred Garvey> Hey Everyone,  had a conversation with PreSonus trying to understand why they don't commit to support for UbuntuStudio 19.x and ongoing. I was told to submit a product request and that it is up to Ubuntu Studio to release drives that are Class Compliant that will work with audio interfaces such as Quantum.  Has anyone had conversa
[16:10] <studiobot> tions with PreSonus product development team?
[16:10] <OvenWerks> tempest: for desktop kinds of things, anything that is written about xubuntu also applies to studio. Ubuntustudio is built on top of xubuntu
[16:10] <studio-user159> ovenwerks: thnx, i will first update all packages (installed some kxstudio stuff and whatever in the meantime) i then get back to you, if you dont mind :)
[16:11] <OvenWerks> kxstudio stuff mill also break some things... IE cadence will reconfigure some system services in a way that makes qjackctl and or ubuntustudio-controls
[16:11] <OvenWerks> s/makes/breaks/
[16:12] <studio-user159> ow ok.. will look at that too...
[16:12] <OvenWerks> However, if you will only ever use one audio device cadence will work fine.
[16:13] <studio-user159> however the suite looks pretty awesome, but can non-sequencer and stuff work without kxstudio ... do you happen to know that?
[16:13] <studio-user159> aha
[16:13] <studio-user159> ok thanks
[16:13] <OvenWerks> to use internal audio for output and a USB mic input, ubuntustudio-controls is better
[16:13] <studio-user159> kool
[16:13] <OvenWerks> all of kxstudio besides cadence should be ok.
[16:15] <studio-user159> hydrogen 2:0.9.7-2kxstudio1.1 fails the upgrade process though...
[16:16] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio already has hydrogen.
[16:17] <OvenWerks> Right now, anything that studio already has that is also in kxstudio could be left at the studio version
[16:18] <studio-user159> aha therefor it fails. ok, i hope i didn't damage the system beyond reasonable repear already.
 @<tempest> one possible solution for you is to install the Gnome desktop alongside the xfce desktop, then you log out and log in using the Gnome destkop.  I find it a little more user friendly than xfjce
[16:19] <OvenWerks> If you have a problem with a aprticular package disable the kxstudio ppa and force reinstall that application.
 That way you get the great Ubuntu Studio features and apps, but with the Gnome destktop
[16:19] <studio-user159> ok i changed the default pulseaudio output device to jack master
[16:19] <OvenWerks> DaveWho I find exactly the opposite
 @OvenWerks, it's all down to individual tastes, I guess 😉
[16:21] <OvenWerks> The xfce desktop is based on the gnome2 style and is a good desktop to get actual work done. I guess gnome is good for single application use though.
[16:21] <OvenWerks> It is possible to use the gnome desktop with more than one application for sure, but not as easy
[16:22]  * OvenWerks runs two monitors with four desktops... often as many as 10 windows per desktop
[16:22] <OvenWerks> more than half of those are terminals
[16:24] <OvenWerks> Oh, speaking of terminals, the gnome terminal just now has a problem with permisions. Even though the desktop has real time permissions a gnome terminal will not (thanks to systemd I am told) so when using gnome for Audio work, use the xterm rather than the gnome one (or install the xfce version)
 @OvenWerts, yeah I do run a lot of apps simultaneously mpself.... often with Win 7 running in VintualBox, too.... The Gnome Extensions repository has so many extensions you can add on to make life easier..... Plus I prefer the Gnome file manager to Thunar..... But, like I said, it's down to individual taste.... Ubuntu Studio was my fi
[16:26] <studiobot> rst experience of Xfce, and I have to say that Xfce is very highly configurable.... It's another great desktop on another great Linux distrib.
 @DaveWho [@<tempest> one possible solution for you is to install the Gnome desktop alongsi …], Or, as we recently designed, install whatever flavor of Ubuntu you like, add the Ubuntu Studio backports PPA, install ubuntustudio-installer, and run it to get up and running with Ubuntu Studio on whatever desktop you like! :)
 Personally, I find Ubuntu Studio with Gnome is MY perfect environment... And when I installed Gnome alongside Xfce, I got a perfect vanilla Gnome... I was no happy.... none of the changes that Canonical made to Gnome in the vanilla Ubuntu distrib
 @Eickmeyer , yes I read about that.... But installing Studo and then adding the Gnome desktop works great.... I'm so happy with it
 A bit thanks to the Studio developers for their great work 😊
 @DaveWho [@Eickmeyer , yes I read about that.... But installing Studo and then adding the …], I've done that too in the past. :)
 For any newbies interested in Gnome on Studio: … sudo apt install tasksel … sudo tasksel install ubuntu-desktop … sudo apt-get install chrome-gnome-shell
[16:33] <studio-user159> ovenwerks: it works :) thanks!! my hydrogen broke so i disabled the ppa for kxstudio and then my software updater went psycho, but i can fix that ..
[16:35] <OvenWerks> studio-user159: Just a hint, I would not use the gnome software  application but rather install synaptic for that chore.
[16:36] <studio-user159> using apt would do fine to i guess?
[16:36] <OvenWerks> yes apt is a great tool
 Even Gnome Software is working great for me.... but Synaptic is a great tool too for troubleshooting  … Apt works perfectly, yes
[16:36] <OvenWerks> There is a KDE tool that is good too.
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> Muon
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> Muon, imo, is much better than Synaptic. Maintained better.
[16:38] <OvenWerks> ganome software works for most people most of the time... but it does not A) warn you if it is going to remove packages so it can install something new and it does not pass thorugh queries from packages being installed
 Yes, it's true that apt and Synaptic are safer from that viewpoint
 I will try KDE on my other laptop.... I've heard so much good about it as well
[16:41] <OvenWerks> I like KDE.
 I *love* my Linux.... Take it from my cold dead hands 😊
 Try it once and you'll never go back to Windows 😊
[16:44] <OvenWerks> windows is that demo OS some computers come with... the one you replace so you can actually use your computer...
 Yeah 😉 .... I only wish I could manage to nuke Win 10 on my Asus T100TA semi-tablet.... I can't even get a live distrib USB stick to boot on it.... sad....
 I wouldn't buy another Asus computer.... Dell support for Linux is really great, and everything works.... Plus you can install Ubuntu from day 1 instead of Windoze
[16:49] <OvenWerks> I have had good success with ASUS mother boards, but have never gotten a prebuilt with one.
 Question: I have installed Ubuntu Studio on an Asus G750JM and the webcam and bluetooth are not working. I guess I'm going to need to find kernel modules for those particular devices and then.... recompile the kernel? Of course, the most-detailed Asus spec I can find for this laptop don't actually say what the model of webcam is or an
[21:24] <studiobot> y specific info about the bluetooth.... Does anyone have any previous experience or ideas about this model, or the subject of kernel hardware modules in general?
[21:41] <OvenWerks> DaveWho: This would be a great question to ask in #xubuntu or even on #ubuntu (both IRC)
[21:43] <OvenWerks> The kernel for Studio is the same as the generic kernel so far as available kernel modules and compatablility. It has only one extra build switch set that allow pre-empt
[21:44] <OvenWerks> Even on the generic kernel it is possible to provide a commandline parameter in grub to flip the same switch.
 @OvenWerks I'll try that, thanks for the advice 😉
[22:51] <studiobot> AlexPedreros was removed by: AlexPedreros
[22:56] <studiobot> ibeeeng was removed by: ibeeeng


[00:19] <mup> Bug # changed: 1274460, 1274922, 1276943, 1276976
[00:21]  * redir eods a little early for M's birthday
[00:43] <mup> Bug # changed: 1277307, 1277359, 1279093, 1281376, 1281377, 1282731, 1283814
[00:49] <mup> Bug #1284183 changed: jujuclient.EnvError: <Env Error - Details:  {   u'Error': u'watcher was stopped', u'RequestId': 9, u'Response': {   }} <api> <status> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284183>
[00:49] <mup> Bug #1285115 changed: very slow upgrade-charm run <upgrade-charm> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285115>
[02:16] <mup> Bug # changed: 1286517, 1286570, 1287661, 1288034
[02:25] <mup> Bug # changed: 1288745, 1293324, 1294458, 1294462
[02:40] <mup> Bug # opened: 1288745, 1293324, 1294458, 1294462
[02:41] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: menn0: thumper: m having one of those funnily interesting days \o/ where can I find a list of all hooks that we support and conditions under which they fire? :D
[02:41] <wallyworld> source code :-)
[02:42] <wallyworld> not sure there's doc?
[02:42] <anastasiamac> :D where in source code?
[02:42] <wallyworld> there might be
[02:42] <anastasiamac> or docs?
[02:42] <anastasiamac> we do not have a list?
[02:42] <wallyworld> nfi about docs
[02:42] <wallyworld> may do but i've never used them
[02:42] <katco> anastasiamac: https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/reference-charm-hooks
[02:42] <menn0> anastasiamac: does this help: https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/developer-event-cycle
[02:43] <anastasiamac> katco:  menno: this is awesome :D tyvm
[02:44] <wallyworld> in case docs are out of date, hooks are defined in charm/hooks/hooks.go
[02:46] <mup> Bug # changed: 1288745, 1293324, 1294458, 1294462, 1294843, 1297940, 1298662, 1298755, 1299032
[02:47] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: thank you :)
[03:01] <mup> Bug #1299040 changed: juju should fire depart/join hooks when units are dead <hooks> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299040>
[03:01] <mup> Bug #1299579 changed: support unconfined and nested container app armor profile in local provider <improvement> <local-provider> <ubuntu-engineering> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299579>
[03:01] <mup> Bug #1299584 changed: dead machines stuck in status <destroy-machine> <landscape> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299584>
[03:28] <mup> Bug # changed: 1300033, 1300755, 1300823, 1301565, 1301999, 1302015, 1303204
[03:37] <mup> Bug #1303205 changed: an option for add-machine to return back the registered machine id <add-machine> <improvement> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303205>
[03:37] <mup> Bug #1307643 changed: juju upgrade-juju --upload-tools does not honor the arch <simplestreams> <upgrade-juju> <upload-tools> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307643>
[03:37] <mup> Bug #1308101 changed: juju/testing: suite-level Patch never gets restored <tech-debt> <testing> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308101>
[04:04] <wallyworld> menn0: at some point, tomorrow or whenever, i'd love eyeballs on this https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6473 . There's one commit that's important; the rest can be eyeballed as it's already been reviewed when landing into the feature branch initially. And it's hidden by feature flag and will need rework anyway as spec has changed :-(
[04:04] <mup> Bug # changed: 1308966, 1309441, 1311781, 1312786, 1312951, 1314682, 1317596
[04:34] <mup> Bug # changed: 1318601, 1318923, 1319441, 1319608, 1320218, 1321407, 1321408, 1321793, 1322829, 1323441, 1323623
[04:46] <menn0> wallyworld: ok looking now
[04:46] <wallyworld> it can wait
[04:46] <wallyworld> late for you
[04:47] <menn0> wallyworld: yeah, actually it looks big :)
[04:47] <menn0> wallyworld: which commit is the important one?
[04:47] <wallyworld> the one commit that needs review is small
[04:47] <wallyworld> it's in the PR
[04:47] <menn0> wallyworld: duh
[04:47] <menn0> :)
[04:51] <frobware> hackedbellini: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1634744
[04:51] <mup> Bug #1634744:  bootstrap fails with LXD provider when not using lxdbr0 <bootstrap> <lxd-provider> <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634744>
[04:53] <menn0> wallyworld: reviewed that commit and found a few little problems
[04:53]  * menn0 is EOD
[04:53] <wallyworld> menn0: ty
[05:54] <bradm> is there a reason there's a juju add-subnet, and lists-subnet, but no apparent way to edit said subnet?
[05:59] <anastasiamac> bradm: no reason :D
[06:01] <bradm> although there's not a lot in the way of editting you can do, I guess
[06:01] <bradm> just remove would do
[06:19] <mup> Bug # changed: 1313862, 1324097, 1324666, 1324949, 1367863
[06:24] <anastasiamac> frobware: do u know if this si still applicable for juju 2?
[06:24] <anastasiamac> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/928624
[06:24] <mup> Bug #928624: cached unit public addresses are problematic when public ip address changes <addressability> <canonical-is> <canonical-webops-juju> <network> <juju-core:Triaged> <pyjuju:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/928624>
[06:26] <frobware>  anastasiamac: I would say yes, or still warrants investigation or a repro.
[06:26] <anastasiamac> frobware: tyvm!
[06:40] <mup> Bug # changed: 766721, 928624, 1371558, 1372016
[06:49] <mup> Bug #1049340 changed: cross-model relations <canonical-is> <canonistack> <feature> <ubuntu-engineering> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <pyjuju:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049340>
[06:49] <mup> Bug #1634761 opened: juju 2 subnet refresh from cli <canonical-bootstack> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634761>
[07:05] <mup> Bug #1634761 changed: juju 2 subnet refresh from cli <canonical-bootstack> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634761>
[07:05] <mup> Bug #1049340 opened: cross-model relations <canonical-is> <canonistack> <feature> <ubuntu-engineering> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <pyjuju:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049340>
[07:11] <mup> Bug # changed: 1049340, 1173089, 1183309, 1188126, 1194483, 1208430, 1208787, 1209112
[07:11] <mup> Bug #1634761 opened: juju 2 subnet refresh from cli <canonical-bootstack> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634761>
[07:17] <mup> Bug # opened: 1173089, 1183309, 1188126, 1194483, 1208430, 1208787, 1209112
[07:20] <mup> Bug # changed: 1173089, 1183309, 1188126, 1194483, 1208430, 1208787, 1209112, 1209452, 1213186
[07:32] <mup> Bug #1209452 opened: juju status should report hardware characteristics in a more structured format <hours> <status> <ui> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1209452>
[07:32] <mup> Bug #1213186 opened: Show user progress of deployed service <papercut> <performance> <ui> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213186>
[07:41] <mup> Bug #1209452 changed: juju status should report hardware characteristics in a more structured format <hours> <status> <ui> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1209452>
[07:41] <mup> Bug #1213186 changed: Show user progress of deployed service <papercut> <performance> <ui> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213186>
[07:50] <mup> Bug #1217726 changed: gui: viewing a service or a service unit causes the api server to enumerate all availalble tools <api> <juju-gui> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217726>
[07:50] <mup> Bug #1218651 changed: Requests to meta-data service do not timeout <canonistack> <performance> <security> <juju:Triaged> <juju-core:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218651>
[07:50] <mup> Bug #1634761 changed: juju 2 subnet refresh from cli <canonical-bootstack> <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634761>
[08:26] <mup> Bug # changed: 1221501, 1221685, 1223339, 1223752, 1227450, 1229755, 1234287, 1234677, 1236662
[08:38] <mup> Bug # changed: 1238677, 1241763, 1241840, 1242725, 1243768, 1244382, 1244841
[08:47] <mup> Bug # opened: 1238677, 1241763, 1241840, 1242725, 1243768, 1244382, 1244841
[08:56] <mup> Bug # changed: 1238677, 1241763, 1241840, 1242725, 1243768, 1244382, 1244841
[09:05] <mup> Bug # changed: 1248674, 1248800, 1252322, 1253651, 1254790, 1255786, 1257729, 1259496
[09:25] <frobware> on my nuc: load average: 2251.20, 1112.39, 431.37
[09:25] <frobware> lol - no wonder it is slow to login...
[09:26]  * frobware grabs some coffee and waits for the load avg to dip below 100...
[09:39] <voidspace> perrito666: you've touched the vsphere provider - do you know who wrote it?
[10:23] <frobware> mgz: ping
[10:52] <frobware> mgz: any chance you could jump on a HO w.r.t. simplestreams
[10:57] <SimonKLB> hey, could anyone here give me some best practice for dealing with exceptions during a config update in a charmed software - to give some context, right now im using data_changed() to see if the configuration has changed but if the configuration task does not complete it might be unchanged in the software
[10:58] <SimonKLB> and since data_change is updateing the unitdata it would not think the config has changed the next iteration
[11:00] <SimonKLB> it would be nice with some kind of two step update rather than writing the new data when using data_changed(), for example first being able to check if the data has changed and then commiting it to the unitdata.kv when it's actually successfully completed
[11:03] <aluria> hi o/ -- I'm trying to get a similar behavior than when I deployed ubuntu --to lxc:N (using juju1) --> now, using --to lxd:N (using juju2)   --- on juju1+LXCs, I had to edit /usr/share/lxc/templates/lxc-ubuntu-cloud to map ifaces into bare metal bridges
[11:04] <aluria> now, I see juju2+LXDs already creates all ifaces listed in "juju list-subnets" -- is that the expected behavior? Could I limit somehow the devices shown on "lxc config show <lxd-name>" ?
[11:04] <aluria> ie. have an LXD only mapping a couple of ifaces into bare metal bridges
[11:06] <aluria> frobware: if I may ask you ^^
[11:07] <frobware> aluria: not at the moment, though that is something we are aware of. In a future version this may well be dynamic (i.e., we will only add what is needed in the container).
[11:08] <frobware> aluria: just to be clear, you're seeing this on MAAS, correct?
[11:09] <aluria> frobware: thx -- and how is the order chosen? ie. eth0 maps to br0-net2, eth1 to br0-net0, ...
[11:09] <aluria> frobware: on MAAS 2, indeed
[11:09] <perrito666> voidspace: answered you in priv
[11:10] <frobware> aluria: they should be paired so that eth0 in the container will be br-eth0 on the host
[11:10] <frobware> aluria: you can see the mapping if you run: lxc config show <container-name>
[11:11] <aluria> frobware: hmm, we're using disable-network-management=True and copying our own /e/n/interfaces file, so names don't follow br-eth0, etc.
[11:11] <dimitern> aluria: if you want not to bridge certain maas node interfaces, keep them unconfigured in maas - juju won't bridge unconfigured interfaces
[11:12] <aluria> frobware: and yep, "lxc config show <lxd-name>" helps to troubleshoot, but I was wondering if that order will be followed on every redeploy (hope so) + on every lxd (I imagine that will happen)
[11:12] <dimitern> aluria: can I ask why are you using disable-net-mgmt: true ?
[11:13] <aluria> dimitern: I'm using "disable-net-mgmt: true" b/c we used to (in bootstack)... to be able to configure bonds, vlan tagging, bridges and make LXCs bridge via the bridge we want and not lxcbr0
[11:14] <mgz> frobware: yo, how can I help?
[11:14] <frobware> mgz: I'm stuck, blocked and confused. Can you jump on a HO?
[11:14] <aluria> dimitern: with juju2, things will change (iirc, on maas 2.2?, bridges will be supported)
[11:14] <dimitern> aluria: ah, I see - well, with juju2 you should have most of that config done by juju on maas
[11:14] <dimitern> aluria: maas 2.1 has initial bridges support (already released?)
[11:15] <mgz> frobware: same one as for standup?
[11:15] <frobware> mgz: yep.
[11:17] <aluria> dimitern: not on ppa:maas/stable but we'll have to check devel series in the near future -- thx for the info on "juju2 not bridging unconfigured interfaces"
[11:17] <dimitern> aluria: it's on ppa:maas/next but on Y, IIRC
[11:18] <aluria> dimitern: ah, it looks it's also on X, ta
[11:20] <dimitern> aluria: yeah, for L2 support (e.g. neutron) that's how it'll work; in future releases we'll have better way of communicating "I just want L2 device(s) thank you"
[11:28] <dimitern> I'd appreciate a second look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6468 please
[11:55] <frobware> voidspace, dooferlad: ^^ any volunteers for dimitern's PR. I took a look but somebody else should too.
[11:55] <dimitern> it's easier to review now, as the prereq has landed and I rebased onto develop
[11:57] <voidspace> frobware: dimitern: looking
[11:57] <dimitern> voidspace: ta!
[12:18] <dimitern> frobware: I figured out how to trigger juju ssh hanging on demand :) not a blackhole route to the node's public address (gets EINVAL) but iptables -t filter -I OUTPUT 1 -s <IP>/32 -j DROP
[12:24] <dimitern> even better (somewhat..) I managed to trigger the bug in parallel.Try
[12:24] <dimitern> when a dual-NIC juju controller node has -j DROP rule on its first nic arriving from the client
[12:49] <voidspace> dimitern: so you've added AllNetworkAddresses to the sshclient  shim
[12:49] <dimitern> voidspace: yeah
[12:49] <voidspace> dimitern: but this PR doesn't implement AllNetworkAddressess, was it pre-existing just not exposed?
[12:50] <voidspace> dimitern: and what's the difference between Addresses and AllNetworkAddresses (except the error return value)
[12:50] <dimitern> voidspace: it was in the prerequise PR - 6467
[12:50] <voidspace> dimitern: ah
[12:51] <dimitern> voidspace: Addresses() returns the merged machine and provider addresses stored on the machine doc (considered obsolete source)
[12:51] <dimitern> voidspace: and AllNetworkAddresses() returns the machine's addresses assigned to link layer devices
[12:51] <voidspace> dimitern: the machine doc is now considered obsolete? what is authoritative
[12:51] <voidspace> ah
[12:51] <voidspace> cool
[12:52] <dimitern> (but as []network.Address, more usable across package boundaries - i.e easier to test, than []*state.Address)
[12:52] <voidspace> dimitern: so has PrefferedPublic|PrivateAddress been updated to use link layer device addresses?
[12:52] <dimitern> voidspace: nope, not yet
[12:52] <voidspace> dimitern: I thought the preferred addresses were still using machine/provider
[12:52] <voidspace> right
[12:52] <voidspace> cool
[12:52] <dimitern> voidspace: but I'd like to, eventually
[12:52] <voidspace> dimitern: that PR looks fine to me, pretty straightforward really
[12:53] <voidspace> dimitern: just going to read frobware's comments
[12:53] <dimitern> voidspace: they are, but on maas the LLD addresses are a better source (and have all the "metadata" along with them - i.e. subnets, dns settings, etc.)
[12:54] <dimitern> voidspace: tyvm! :)
[12:54] <voidspace> dimitern: yep, I like the change to consider LLD authoritative (i.e. to have a proper network model)
[12:54] <voidspace> dimitern: but we need to be consistent - having two sources of truth is bad :-(
[12:54] <dimitern> voidspace: yeah :/ but we'll sort that along the way in the next releases I hope
[12:55] <voidspace> dimitern: cool
[12:59] <macgreagoir> aluria: Feel welcome to ping me if you want to go over any of those differences. You'll love it! ;-)
[13:19] <hackedbellini> frobware: thanks for pointing me the bug
[13:33] <rick_h_> voidspace: ping for chat
[13:43] <rick_h_> voidspace: bailing out, will see you in standup
[13:54] <dooferlad> dimitern: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6476 fixes one of your annoyances if you want to take a look
[13:56] <voidspace> rick_h_: oh crap
[13:56] <voidspace> rick_h_: forgot again dammit
[13:56] <voidspace> rick_h_: was afk - see you in a few moments
[13:57] <dimitern> dooferlad: cheers - looking
[14:00] <rick_h_> voidspace: katco natefinch dimitern ping for standup
[14:10] <lazyPower> has anyone seen an issue where juju deploying a bundle yields a response message like the following:  ERROR cannot deploy bundle: cannot create machine for holding easyrsa, etcd and kubernetes-master units: cannot add a new machine: An internal error has occurred (InternalError)
[14:11] <lazyPower> this was filed here: https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-kubernetes-core/issues/30  -- and we've not seen anything like this before. I think its bug-worthy on the core side, but i'm not sure what else i can add aside from this bugs output as we didn't encounter it.
[14:24] <katco> alexisb_: rick_h_: https://medium.com/feature-request-management-in-saas/roadmaps-a-product-teams-friend-or-foe-43b1d5cdc1a6#.kqna52meq
[14:25] <rick_h_> qkaty
[14:25] <rick_h_> bah
[14:25] <rick_h_> katco: ty
[15:01]  * macgreagoir is still here. Now no need for the early EOD.
[15:08] <redir> does 1.25 series require the --upload-tools flag to upgrade jujud to a locally built version?
[15:12] <dimitern> redir: still does, just 2.0 doesn't need it
[15:13] <redir> tx dimitern
[15:18] <redir> was there a way to see the logs like --show-logs in 1.24? or did it require  logging in?
[15:22] <dimitern> redir: you could try `juju debug-log` ?
[17:00] <redir> I'm a little late coming back from dr. Trains delayed -- should be back in about 15 minutes
[17:26] <aluria> hi again -- in juju-deployer, we used to use "overrides" for config variables that existed in multiple services (now applications) -- I haven't found such an option on juju2 bundles -- would I need to repeat the same key-value on all charms that have it as config param?
[17:37] <hoenir> can anyone review my latest patches ? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6414
[17:38] <hoenir> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6464
[17:40] <rick_h_> katco: can you help look at that first one please? ^
[17:40] <rick_h_> perrito666: do you have time to look at the second one today? ^
[17:40] <natefinch> aluria: try on #juju .... they generally know bundles better than we do
[17:40] <perrito666> rick_h_: I do, I am actually waiting on something to break
[17:41] <rick_h_> aluria: sorry, the built in bundles don't support the variable substitution like the deployer does
[17:55] <perrito666> hoenir: reviewed the second, targetted to the wrong branch but otterwise sems find
[17:55] <perrito666> fine
[17:56] <hoenir> perrito666, and what branch is the "dev branch" ?
[17:57] <perrito666> develop
[17:57] <hoenir> "develop" branch?
[17:57] <perrito666> I misstyped wanted to type develope
[17:57] <perrito666> develop
[17:58] <hoenir> but why develop? Why the dev design changed? We know make pr only on develop? Why not on master "as usual"?
[17:58] <hoenir> perrito666, could you add more details?
[17:58] <rick_h_> hoenir: sorry, we've got a new development workflow that started this week
[17:58] <natefinch> rick_h_: is the new development workflow on the wiki?
[17:59] <rick_h_> natefinch: no, only in the email and docs
[17:59] <perrito666> I was about to ask, do we have a pub... oh
[17:59] <perrito666> ok
[18:00] <hoenir> why not send an email to all contribs when a dev design is changing ? It's really hard and somewhat annoying to "change over night"...
[18:01] <hoenir> I will make new pr's on develop, thanks guys.
[18:01] <natefinch> it's pretty easy to move PRs, btw
[18:02] <perrito666> hoenir: no need to, you can re-target your existing one
[18:05] <hoenir> natefinch, , perrito 666 thanks, for the first one I've changed  the branch in the end, but for the second I already created a new PR and closed the older one. So I think it's ok for now.
[18:06] <perrito666> hoenir: pass me the second one so I can review/approve
[18:06] <hoenir> perrito666, right away
[18:07] <hoenir> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6477
[18:08] <katco> rick_h_: hoenir: i will tal at 6414 later today; trying to wrap up some changes
[18:08] <hoenir> katco, thanks !
[18:08] <hoenir> perrito666, hmm smth failed, should I rebase with the master and afer rebase with develop ?
[18:10] <perrito666> hoenir: no, just let me figure out how to fix what failed :)
[18:12] <perrito666> rick_h_: sinzui any of you remember the invocation to re-run checks
[18:12] <perrito666> ?
[18:12] <rick_h_> perrito666: !!build!!
[18:12] <perrito666> and perhaps we need to make godeps run a couple of times before failing that one
[18:12] <perrito666> rick_h_: mm, I might not be in the right group of people then, it did nothing
[18:14] <perrito666> hoenir: interesting aproach
[18:19] <hoenir> perrito666, thanks, the changes Implies, that, the user data script could be run multiple times without producing errors or changing the way the jujud is installing and setting up the env windows registers, etc.
[18:22] <perrito666> hoenir: now we need those tests to run again
[18:22] <perrito666> rick_h_: can you try the !!build!! incantation?
[18:26] <rick_h_> perrito666: link me please, ln the phone
[18:27] <perrito666> rick_h_: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6477
[18:27] <hoenir> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6477
[18:30] <hoenir> why the first failed?
[18:33] <perrito666> hoenir: godeps failed due to network/server issues
[18:33] <perrito666> it is a check that runs a basic set of tests
[18:33] <perrito666> once that passes you can merge
[18:35] <hoenir> could anyone provide a link all of the "incantations"?
[18:36] <perrito666> hoenir: there is only 2 as far as I know !!build!! will cause these to re-run and $$merge$$ that will cause a merge (I am not sure they will work for everyone though)
[18:36] <perrito666> brb
[18:55] <hoenir> and the log ? 2016-10-19 18:50:55 ERROR trusty failed with 2 perrito666
[18:57] <hoenir> perrito666, nevermind I founded.
[18:58] <hoenir> http://juju-ci.vapour.ws/job/github-check-merge-juju/79/artifact/artifacts/trusty-out.log
[19:02] <hoenir> Yeah so the scripts are valid but they don't 100% match in the unit test(added one space by mistake or smth).
[19:03] <hoenir> perrito666, https://www.diffchecker.com/k9QPGjvA fixing it now
[19:23] <hoenir> perrito666, fixed !
[19:29]  * redir lunches
[21:11]  * perrito666 does some serious open heart surgery to vsphere provider
[21:31] <katco> do we only support linux w/ the manual provider?
[21:34] <perrito666> katco: afaik
[21:34] <katco> perrito666: k just checking, ta
[21:38] <perrito666> meh I am not sure if I should refactor this code or publish it as a bad practices manual
[21:39] <katco> perrito666: refactor. here's why: http://ronjeffries.com/xprog/articles/refactoring-not-on-the-backlog/
[21:39] <katco> perrito666: just try and keep it a narrow refactoring (difficult in our codebase bc there are sticky bad things that have propagated)
[21:40] <perrito666> katco: well the code doesnt actually work so not that narrow
[21:40] <perrito666> :p
[21:40] <katco> lol
[21:40] <katco> well then you don't have much of a choice do you lol
[21:40] <perrito666> it does the wrong thing and written in the wrong way :p
[21:40] <perrito666> so you see my issue  :p
[21:40] <katco> perrito666: refactor. this shouldn't even be a question lol
[21:41] <perrito666> katco: still could sell very well as an oreilly reference book :p
[22:01] <katco> frobware: does this really work? https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/staging/environs/manual/addresses.go#L17
[22:02] <katco> frobware: i still don't know much about our networking stuff, but i imagined a more robust resolution framework
[22:12] <anastasiamac> I can see both $$merge$$ and !!build!! being used... is there a considerable difference between the two? is there a preference?
[22:16] <perrito666> anastasiamac: afaik build only triggers the automated tests
[22:17] <anastasiamac> perrito666: k so with !!build!!, there is no landing... we are just requesting a check that land is possible?
[22:17] <perrito666> anastasiamac: exactly it is for cases where tests fail I presume
[22:19] <anastasiamac> perrito666: thnx \o/
[23:06] <wallyworld> menn0: i replied to your comments? care to take a look?
[23:16] <alexisb> menn0, thumper ping
[23:16] <thumper> yes?
[23:37] <thumper> wallyworld: the folks behind exploding kittens have a new game coming
[23:37] <thumper> which I have backed alrady
[23:37] <wallyworld> thumper: me too!
[23:37] <thumper> bearsvsbabies.com
[23:37] <thumper> :)
[23:37] <wallyworld> looks awesome
[23:37] <thumper> yeah
[23:41] <thumper> veebers: I was thinking of spending some time up the road at the cafe
[23:41] <thumper> veebers: interested in joining me?
[23:42] <wallyworld> thumper: still no coffee machine?
[23:42] <thumper> wallyworld: no :-(
[23:42] <wallyworld> ffs
[23:42] <thumper> word
[23:42] <menn0> thumper: hangout again? I've dug a bit further
[23:43] <thumper> yep
[23:44]  * perrito666 reaches new levels of not enough bandwidth
[23:44] <perrito666> 39k upload...
[23:45] <veebers> thumper: ugh, sorry I just organised to grab some lunch with the girls (we have Kerris sister down for Kerris b-day) :-\ Maybe later today or tomorrow?
[23:46] <thumper> hmm...
[23:46] <thumper> I'll probably be there 1-3pm
[23:46] <thumper> ish
[23:47] <veebers> cool, I'll be in touch :-)
[23:58] <redir> what if there's no sdb for new regions. empty string?
[23:59] <perrito666> yay vsphere provider working correctly
[23:59]  * perrito666 jumps like doc brown


[10:54] <cmaloney> morning
[19:23] <derekv> anyone ever seen this structure?  /etc/somefooservices/conf.empty
[19:23] <derekv> i'm trying to figure out wtf conf.empty is supposed to be fore
[19:23] <derekv> its part of the install package
[19:26] <derekv> be fore.  or be aft.  or before. or aftre.
[19:27] <derekv> twoee timre twooe be fore
[19:27]  * derekv is losing his mind
[19:32] <derekv> ok figuring it out, its their fartbrained way of saying "example configs"...
[19:38] <cmaloney> https://soundcloud.com/professorkliq/nations-theme
[19:38] <cmaloney> <3
[19:40] <derekv>  /etc/foo/conf is a symlink to /etc/alternatives/foo/conf, which is a symlink to /etc/foo/conf.empty
[19:40] <derekv> i don't get any of this
[19:41] <derekv> i don't even get why foo is set up as part of alternatives
[23:54] <cmaloney> Well that's strange
[23:54] <cmaloney> Bean and Leaf wireless won't let me ssh to home, or browse Slashdot.org
[23:54] <cmaloney> but Yahoo and Google are fine


[21:44] <Wally_Phone> Hello
[21:44] <Takyoji> Hello
[21:46] <Wally_Phone> I'm torn. I'm thinking of installing arch linux over ubuntu.
[21:46] <Wally_Phone> I've touted with linux for about 5 months now.
[21:47] <Wally_Phone> How bad is it to configure?
[21:52] <Obsidian1723> Ever compiled software from source?
[21:53] <Obsidian1723> It's not Gentoo, but Arch has a bigger geek-learning-curve than Ubuntu. If you want super easy: Linux Mint.
[21:53] <Obsidian1723> If you want super hard: SlackWare, Gentoo, LFS
[21:59] <Wally_Phone> I want to learn more. And want to try compiling from source
[21:59] <Wally_Phone> I started with mint
[21:59] <Wally_Phone> Then ubuntu
[21:59] <Obsidian1723> ok, well, next I would go Debian
[21:59] <Obsidian1723> That wont be such a reach...
[22:00] <Wally_Phone> Debian is basically ubuntu source, correct?
[22:01] <kermit> Wally_Phone: ubuntu makes lots of modifications, but otherwise yes
[22:01] <Wally_Phone> I would live
[22:02] <Wally_Phone> I would like to start as clean as possible and build from there.
[22:03] <Wally_Phone> I will pull a live cd of debian then.
[22:03] <kermit> Wally_Phone: thats the philosophy of slackware
[22:05] <Wally_Phone> Ok not to sound like a noob but
[22:06] <Wally_Phone> Compiling software is basically apt get install xyz program
[22:06] <Wally_Phone> Right? To build your system
[22:08] <kermit> Wally_Phone: thats just installing a precompiled version
[22:09] <kermit> Wally_Phone: which is the easiest though
[22:09] <Wally_Phone> Source is.tar files then?
[22:14] <Wally> I got some more reading to do then guys.  Thanks for the little bit of wisdom.  I may be back for more advice
[22:18] <Obsidian1723> hmmm
[22:19] <Obsidian1723> compileing software is ungzing it, untaring it, doing ./configure then a makeinstall
[22:19] <Obsidian1723> You also need to make sure all dependacies are met. With Ubuntu or Red Hat or any distro that uses a repository, ala sudo apt-get install or yum, you download a deb / rpm file which does all of the work for you.
[22:20] <Obsidian1723> Also, upgrading a source-compiled-installed software program is trickier than it is by using a repository system as mentioned above.
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> and when you compile, it's for that particular PC.
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> There are advantages and disadvantages to both weays
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> ways
[22:21] <Wally> Thanks Obsidian1723
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> no problem.
[22:21] <Wally> I may still be a litlle green for all that
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> yeah, thats why I was thinking Debian. ease into it.
[22:22] <Wally> I may be even a little green for debian but want to learn
[22:22] <Wally> I tend to learn better by trying and some reading
[22:22] <Wally> so thank you for the input
[22:22] <Wally> Im dl'ing debian now
[22:22] <Obsidian1723> I mean Gentoo and that is great because you compile it from source so its not just optimized and you not only get EXACTLY (and only) what you want, but also its optimized fopr that particular PC
[22:23] <Wally> understand
[22:23] <Obsidian1723> It's all the same really, the differences are mainly philosophical.
[22:23] <Wally> I just want a solid stable daily driver that can surf, music, movies, tinker, etc
[22:23] <Obsidian1723> For example, Debian does not update very often, really focuses on stability, free software
[22:24] <Wally> So whatever programs work on ubuntu will work on debian, correct?
[22:24] <Obsidian1723> Then I highly recommend Debian for stabiliity, but if you want newer software, something still stable and much easier to use, Linux Mint.
[22:24] <Wally> Like I need to edit a picture slide show.
[22:24] <Obsidian1723> Well, not really, no.
[22:24] <Obsidian1723> \Debian is leaner. See there are 3 repos from which debian is created.
[22:24] <Obsidian1723> debian-unstable
[22:24] <Obsidian1723> debian-testing'
[22:25] <Obsidian1723> and debian-stable
[22:25] <Obsidian1723> Ubuntu takes code from debian-testing for it's LTS releases and from debian-unstable for it's non-LTS releases..in both cases, Canonical adds their own code to it.
[22:26] <Wally> ok
[22:26] <Obsidian1723> MOST of the time the same stuff works in both Debian and Ubuntu, but not always. take apt-listbugs for example, great in Debian, pointless in Ubuntu.
[22:26] <Wally> so let say I need a web browser
[22:26] <Wally> debian won't come with one like ubuntu does?
[22:27] <Wally> And I can just aptget install firefox
[22:27] <Obsidian1723> Debian is what Ubuntu is based off of. It's a fork of Debian. Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE vs Gnome), Xubuntu (lightweight Ubuntu with XFCE) and Linux Mint (GNOME or KDE) are all based off of Ubuntu.
[22:27] <Wally> more or less
[22:27] <Obsidian1723> Debian comes with a browser, Firefox, albiet an older version.
[22:27] <Wally> ok
[22:28] <Wally> sorry for sounding so noob
[22:28] <Obsidian1723> You can install Firefox, yes, but again, Debian uses much older versions because their focus is stability.
[22:28] <Obsidian1723> No, its ok man. really.
[22:28] <Wally> ok i get it
[22:28] <Wally> but if i choose I can upgrade FF
[22:28] <Obsidian1723> If you want a good visual of Linux, Google "Linux Time Line"
[22:28] <Obsidian1723> \It shows the whole geneology tree of Linux.
[22:29] <Obsidian1723> You can, yes, but then that sort of defeats the purpose of Debian, which goes for ultra stability.
[22:29] <Obsidian1723> I really think Linux Mint is your better route for a desktop.
[22:29] <Obsidian1723> Its not as geeky as Ubuntu.
[22:29] <Obsidian1723> or Debian
[22:29] <Obsidian1723> It just works.
[22:29] <Obsidian1723> I personally run a customized version of Ubuntu.
[22:30] <Wally> I know mint is nice
[22:30] <Wally> It just works
[22:30] <Wally> When I first loaded it it worked out of the box
[22:30] <Wally> kinda nice
[22:30] <Wally> then i switched to ubuntu 10 when it came out
[22:31] <Wally> and well i never got it 100% where I wanted, but it was close
[22:31] <Obsidian1723> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/rons-ubuntu-v13-autoinstall.iso <-- thats mine. If youy install it, make sure you have high speed Internet connected to the PC.
[22:31] <Wally> stiill had a few issues
[22:31] <Wally> like file sharing with windows,
[22:31] <Obsidian1723> It installs 10.04.1LTS and some customizations. Sets up a default user named: administrator with the default password of: password
[22:32] <Wally> ok
[22:32] <Wally> Im dl'ling it
[22:32] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, I fixed that in my distro.  some stuff installed and confiogured for one, ntfs-3g which allows Linux to write (not just read) NTFS drives.You basically need to have
[22:33] <Wally> hmm.  I think  maybe I should just try your version
[22:33] <Obsidian1723> Also, Samba as well. my distro is focused on the network / os / security / linux geek who likes Ubuntu. It has media support though for vides, mp-3 etc
[22:33] <Wally> otherwise i will be back asking for more help
[22:33] <Obsidian1723> It has some nice add ons for administration to
[22:33] <Wally> cool
[22:34] <Wally> so you basically created what I was more or less after
[22:34] <Obsidian1723> yuip
[22:34] <Wally> ubuntu with all the mint support and no green. lol
[22:34] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[22:35] <Wally> well I am dl'ling it now and will fire up a live usb and give it a whirl.
[22:35] <Obsidian1723> What the iso does is install Ubuntu with that default user, a lot of stuff you are normally asked is answered by default (I used a kickstart script to do this) and then it goes out, downloads a bash script and runs it, which does the rest.
[22:35] <Obsidian1723> You wont see the custom stuff until you install it. When you run the ISO, it autoinstalls.
[22:35] <Wally> Hey I really appreciate you sharing that
[22:35] <Wally> So should I still make a live usb?
[22:36] <Obsidian1723> No problem.. remember, it auto installs...
[22:36] <Wally> yep
[22:36] <Wally> ok i got one problem with that
[22:36] <Obsidian1723> If your BIOS supports it, sure.. big thing is, remember the default username and password and also to b e connected to the Internet so the bash script is downloaded and runs
[22:37] <Wally> Yes I can boot from usb.
[22:37] <Wally> i got a ?? tho.  1 sec
[22:37] <Wally> Does it install grub, grub2?
[22:37] <Obsidian1723> What I USED to do is make an image of everything via Remastersys, which you can run as a live dvd or install from, but this way, I need not change the ISO. If I want to add/remove applications for the next install of the ISO, I need only change the bash script.
[22:38] <Obsidian1723> grub2 and ext4
[22:38] <Obsidian1723> This way someone only need download 6xx meg file vs 2.2gb one.
[22:38] <Wally> Is this a public bash script or your personal one?
[22:38] <Obsidian1723> My personal.
[22:38] <Wally> ok
[22:39] <Obsidian1723> I have a non-kickstarted version of it that you can download and use on ANY Ubuntu system
[22:39] <Wally> so a couple more quick ??'s
[22:39] <Obsidian1723> Just need to chmod +x name
[22:39] <Wally> I am doidn a dual boot
[22:39] <Obsidian1723> ah yeah that will eip[e it out
[22:40] <Obsidian1723> You may be better off with just the bash script in your case.
[22:40] <Obsidian1723> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.sh
[22:40] <Obsidian1723> thats the same version as the kickstarted version minus the sudo command in each line.
[22:40] <Obsidian1723> Just download that, chmod +x install-script.sh and then sudo ./install-script.sh
[22:41] <Obsidian1723> You can open it in gedit to sdee what all its doing before you run it if you want.
[22:41] <Wally> cool.  do that after I install ubuntu
[22:41] <Wally> So I can just install 10.04.1 that I already have
[22:41] <Wally> and don
[22:41] <Obsidian1723> Well, if you run the ISO, it will do reformat the PC, install Ubuntu and then download the kickstarted version of that bash script.
[22:42] <Wally> lol
[22:42] <Wally> ya don't want that
[22:42] <Obsidian1723> It would wipe out your files and dual boiot. If you want to just keep yve http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.shour existing situation, then just run this script instead as noted abo
[22:42] <Wally> I need win for the wife still
[22:42] <Obsidian1723> yeah jsut run this as said above. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.sh
[22:43] <Obsidian1723> that is better for your needs. do download the ISO though for use on another system though.
[22:43] <Wally> yep I got it
[22:43] <Obsidian1723> Coools
[22:43] <Wally> I certaintly will
[22:43] <Obsidian1723> It will probably take a couple hours to do its work.
[22:43] <Wally> the script?
[22:43] <Obsidian1723> Yeah
[22:43] <Wally> ok
[22:43] <Obsidian1723> It addss repos, downloads some files, installs applications, sets up iptables
[22:44] <Obsidian1723> Open it in gedit, just dont make any changes to it, and you'll see
[22:44] <Wally> Cool
[22:44] <Wally> http://techtricks.co.in/miscellaneous/uncategorized/booting-ubuntu910-from-media-direct-and-windows-7-fresh-dual-boot-xps1330
[22:44] <Obsidian1723> myh email is in there too
[22:44] <Wally> that is my dual boot setup
[22:44] <Wally> yes and I got it from your pm.  Thank you for that
[22:45] <Wally> It's nice having dual power buttons
[22:45] <Wally> so the wife don't get confused
[22:45] <Obsidian1723> yeah I hear ya...
[22:46] <Obsidian1723> remember if you ever go to reinstall Windows, the NTLDR (NT Loader) overwrites grub...
[22:46] <Obsidian1723> You runing XP?
[22:46] <Wally> win 7
[22:46] <Obsidian1723> 64 bit?
[22:46] <Wally> i am installing grub only on my linux partition
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> ah ok
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> 32 bit linux?>
[22:47] <Wally> so windows shouldnt over write
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> true that.
[22:47] <Wally> i am on 32 bit win
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> cool. 32 nix too?
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> Avoid 64 bit Linux for now....
[22:47] <Wally> i have 64 right now
[22:47] <Wally> but am going back to 32
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> Flash is a biatch in that
[22:47] <Obsidian1723> Gotcha
[22:48] <Wally> in 32?
[22:48] <Obsidian1723> No, Flashy in 64
[22:48] <Obsidian1723> thats the biatch
[22:49] <Wally> only got 3
[22:49] <Wally> so just didn't seem to have the hp needed.
[22:49] <Wally> but 32 flies
[22:49] <Wally> and a old dual core proc.
[22:49] <Wally> 64 just seems to slow on my machine.  need another gb of ram
[22:49] <Obsidian1723> oh btw, that script installs some nice docs btw
[22:49] <Wally> sweet!
[22:49] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[22:49] <Obsidian1723> The docus go injto the DOcuments folder
[22:49] <Obsidian1723> Documents folder
[22:49] <Wally> Do you run both? or strictly linux?
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> Strictly Linux. Been at computers since 1978, ran every version of Windows, very familliar iwth it, but I only run Linux now.
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> My wife has 64 bit Windows 7
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> ck i nthe 80s and 90s too.I even ran Mac Classic OS ba
[22:50] <Wally> nice
[22:51] <Obsidian1723> I'm 43, started at age 12
[22:51] <Wally> yea wife is not too comp lit.  So it just needs to work.  and she wont look at linux
[22:51] <Wally> you got few on me then.
[22:51] <Obsidian1723> thats too bad....
[22:51] <Wally> Its fine.
[22:51] <Obsidian1723> She should bem ore open
[22:51] <Obsidian1723> yeah I hear ya. if it worksfor her and shes not getting infected left and right etc
[22:51] <Wally> Im gonna get her a netbook and she can have all the fun in the world
[22:52] <Obsidian1723> heheh
[22:52] <Wally> then I will proabbly ditch win
[22:52] <Obsidian1723> 7 is better than XP which isnt supported anymore.
[22:52] <Wally> except for work.  ugh
[22:52] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[22:52] <Wally> agreed
[22:52] <Wally> 7 is nice
[22:52] <Obsidian1723> Ubuntu Netbook Remix is nice
[22:52] <Obsidian1723> I like 7 Profressional a lot.
[22:52] <Obsidian1723> 7 still has some issues....
[22:53] <Wally> really made some leaps and bounds as far as end user is concerned
[22:53] <Wally> agreed
[22:53] <Wally> I got 7 ulit
[22:53] <Obsidian1723> Like 3rd party applications that install in Program FIles vs Program Files (x86)
[22:53] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[22:53] <Wally> do you put your home on a seperate partition?
[22:53] <Wally>  /home*
[22:53] <Obsidian1723> No... I wanted to, but just the one HDD in it.
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> I want to build a box with a RAID 0+1 on it.
[22:54] <Wally> use swap?
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> Nope
[22:54] <Wally> needed? In your opinion?
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> I have 3GB of RAM on it at the desktop PC and 512MB on the lappy I'm on now, no swap in either case.
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> Well, depends
[22:54] <Wally> cool
[22:55] <Wally> I got 3 gb on my lappy
[22:55] <Wally> and should be fine with out it
[22:55] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, but its nice to be able to unmount /home for clean installs
[22:56] <Wally> agree
[22:56] <Obsidian1723> I have everything on one partition for my desktop, but on a server situation, I'd have /home on its own drive/partition..
[22:56] <Wally> but I hope to stick on ubuntu for a while and not distro hope
[22:56] <Obsidian1723> Yeah
[22:56] <Wally> hop*
[22:56] <Obsidian1723> 'If you do a lot of servers, setup a special logs server and point /var on all servers to it.
[22:57] <Wally> I can't set up a server.
[22:57] <Obsidian1723> So a dedicated PC that hosts all /var/log files from al lservers
[22:57] <Wally> I am just a home comp user.
[22:57] <Obsidian1723> I hear ya
[22:57] <Obsidian1723> Not needed in yer case
[22:57] <Wally> I wish I knew
[22:57] <Wally> In time
[22:57] <Obsidian1723> Well, all depends on what ya need
[22:57] <Wally> so much to learn
[22:57] <Obsidian1723> You know, yo ucan easily setup one.
[22:57] <Wally> well when we move
[22:58] <Wally> I am planning on having a central server with all my video/audio
[22:58] <Obsidian1723> If you pull up a terminal and type: tasksel you can setup options
[22:58] <Wally> so i can access it from anywhere in house and hopefully out of house
[22:58] <Obsidian1723> If you are looking at a media server, Mythbuntu works great.
[22:58] <Obsidian1723> It's MythTV + Ubuntu
[22:59] <Wally> ya that would be where I will head when I get a better set up for that.
[22:59] <Obsidian1723> I just built a house, including a server room in it.
[22:59] <Obsidian1723> wired the house with CAT5e
[22:59] <Wally> thats wat I wanna do.
[22:59] <Wally> fully integrated house
[22:59] <Obsidian1723> My roputer is a PC with 2 NICs and pfSense on it.
[22:59] <Wally> and be able to access it remote
[22:59] <Obsidian1723> Are you in MN?
[23:00] <Wally> ya
[23:00] <Obsidian1723> cities?
[23:00] <Wally> yep  EP.
[23:00] <Obsidian1723> Right on man.;...
[23:00] <Obsidian1723> I'm south metro.
[23:00] <Wally> nice.
[23:00] <Obsidian1723> What do ya do for work?
[23:01] <Wally> install Fire Alarms
[23:01] <Obsidian1723> cool gig....
[23:01] <Obsidian1723> tghat's different
[23:01] <Wally> low voltage electric
[23:01] <Wally> ya its a good gig
[23:01] <Obsidian1723> right on.. yeah CAT5e is that, low voltage
[23:01] <Wally> yep
[23:01] <Wally> we do some network stuff
[23:02] <Obsidian1723> sweet... so yer familliar with it/.
[23:02] <Wally> but I don't know it
[23:02] <Wally> familiar yes
[23:02] <Obsidian1723> Well, there's lots of stuff to learn it...
[23:02] <Wally> but am by no means an expert
[23:02] <Obsidian1723> bah, me either.
[23:02] <Wally> i can pull it and terminate it
[23:02] <Obsidian1723> I STILL learn every day. We all do, even the geekiest geek.
[23:03] <Wally> agree
[23:03] <Wally> learn something new always
[23:03] <Obsidian1723> right on...
[23:03] <Obsidian1723> I was on charter, moved into the new house, now on Comcast, love their netework man. 2 up and 12 down for me right now.
[23:03] <Wally> well I got my iso made and al the files dl'd
[23:03] <Obsidian1723> cools
[23:04] <Wally> Yes crapcast is speedy.
[23:04] <Obsidian1723> yeah it is...
[23:04] <Obsidian1723> I have a cisco switch and that pfSense box, runs nicely.
[23:04] <Wally> nice
[23:04] <Wally> can you access remote?
[23:04] <Obsidian1723> The router, switch and all PCs, yes
[23:04] <Wally> like vpn?
[23:04] <Obsidian1723> Yeah
[23:04] <Wally> sweet
[23:05] <Wally> so you could watch a movie at a hotel per say?
[23:05] <Obsidian1723> Ahhhhhhh hmmm no.
[23:05] <Obsidian1723> I could remote into my desktop and watch it, sure. from there, but that'd be slow.
[23:06] <Wally> ah
[23:06] <Wally> comcast limitation
[23:06] <Obsidian1723> Really you want to push the streaming data, and with Comcast, you have that 250GB a month limit.
[23:06] <Obsidian1723> Dont want to go over that at all.
[23:06] <Wally> gotcha
[23:06] <Wally> does it sayt on your billl what you use?
[23:07] <Obsidian1723> No. You can monitor how much youve used by logging into Comcast.com
[23:07] <Obsidian1723> there is a page on there
[23:07] <Wally> cool
[23:07] <Wally> ya I always wondered
[23:07] <Obsidian1723> the residental people have a 250GB a month limit from the 1st to the last day of it.
[23:07] <Wally> I never new that
[23:07] <Wally> I thought it was unlimited
[23:08] <Obsidian1723> nope. first time you exceed they warn you, the 2nd time, no Internet for 12 months.
[23:09] <Wally> WOW
[23:09] <Wally> ever exceded it?
[23:09] <Obsidian1723> yuppers
[23:09] <Obsidian1723> Nooooooooooooo
[23:09] <Wally> closer?
[23:10] <Obsidian1723> btw, if you are ever interested, I have some gear for sale cheap, for when you do your own network deal.
[23:10] <Obsidian1723> Nah, I JUST got on Comcast, so like 11% usage so far last month, thatsw it. I really watch it closely.
[23:11] <Wally> I will certaintly let you know
[23:11] <Obsidian1723> cools.
[23:12] <Wally> Ya I am logging on know to see
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> Right on.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, I have a cisco router 2507 and a Cisco 1900-24 (24 port) switch for sale.
[23:13] <Wally> cools
[23:13] <Obsidian1723> They both have a 10Mbps limit on them, so if your Internet is faster than that, not really good for that, but as far as a couple of peices for say an interneral network or a development/learning network, good for that.
[23:14] <Wally> Ya i got the same 12 - 2
[23:14] <Obsidian1723> I hacked them and set them back to factory default.
[23:14] <Wally> but it would be good to tinker with
[23:14] <Obsidian1723> yeah, like I said, if yer ever interested. dirt cheap for them.
[23:14] <Obsidian1723> You'd need a console cable to connect to them.
[23:14] <Obsidian1723> locally I mean
[23:15] <Wally> i will surely let you know.   In the valley out in Cali they are. pople have full T-1 lines to their house and then you can rent the house out with it installed, whole thing is CAT5, fiber, etc, but that's Silicon Valley for ya.
[23:16] <Obsidian1723> No
[23:16] <Obsidian1723> You just need CAT5e really
[23:16] <Wally> ya
[23:16] <Obsidian1723> I know 6a is out, but really.... if yer pushing over 1Gbps LAN-side....  I want an OC-768 with 40Gbps
[23:18] <Wally> we have tons of partial baoxes and spools
[23:18] <Wally> that would be sick
[23:18] <Obsidian1723> Hmmmmmmmmmm really? Right on...
[23:18] <Obsidian1723> Wanna trade?
[23:18] <Wally> we can maybe work something out.
[23:19] <Wally> Im not on a data job right know, but should be inthe near future.
[23:19] <Obsidian1723> I'll trade for some CAT5e
[23:19] <Obsidian1723> cool. I need to do some custom cables
[23:19] <Wally> I will keep it in mind
[23:19] <Wally> how long?
[23:19] <Obsidian1723> Right on.
[23:19] <Obsidian1723> Hmm probably loike 10 of them about 6 geet perhaps each
[23:19] <Obsidian1723> 10 of them at 6 feet
[23:20] <Obsidian1723> tough 15 would be nicer, for spares
[23:20] <Wally> Ill snag some.  That is not problem
[23:20] <Obsidian1723> cools.
[23:20] <Wally> Ill dig around
[23:20] <Wally> well I am out
[23:20] <Wally> gonna go install
[23:20] <Obsidian1723> you have my email If you email me, I can send ya some more docs too that ya may like.
[23:20] <Obsidian1723> cools
[23:20] <Wally> sweet
[23:21] <Wally> Illl hit ya up later
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> Nice meeting ya. Is Wally your real name?
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> Right on.
[23:21] <Wally> nice meeting ya too and thanks for the help
[23:21] <Wally> no its a nick
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> Anytime.
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> Ron here
[23:21] <Wally> Jason
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> Ill look for your email
[23:21] <Wally> sweet
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> Ah cools
[23:21] <Wally> later
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> later man


 https://youtu.be/lZkAfm-JOwI
 That is't really Lubuntu related. (re @nel2.0: https://youtu.be/lZkAfm-JOwI)
 Once thought it would be as easy as to export QT PLATFORM to wayland and use kwon_wayland as wm and everything will be settled... Sadly, a no go 😂


[02:55] <jmburgess> hello everybody
[02:55] <nhandler> Hello jmburgess
[02:55] <jmburgess> how are you doing nhandler?
[02:55] <nhandler> jmburgess: Ok, you?
[02:56] <jmburgess> good, workin on the wiki