[09:44] <CIA-2> usb-creator: evand * r64 usb-creator/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.1.11
[10:11] <CIA-2> usb-creator: evand * r65 usb-creator/setup.py: Bump to 0.1.12
[12:43] <CIA-2> partman-base: cjwatson * r89 hardy-proposed/debian/changelog: releasing version 114ubuntu6
[13:00] <CIA-2> grub-installer: cjwatson * r759 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog otheros.sh):
[13:00] <CIA-2> grub-installer: Use rootnoverify rather than root when chain-loading Microsoft operating
[13:00] <CIA-2> grub-installer: systems (LP: #10661).
[13:21] <CIA-2> installation-guide: cjwatson * r436 ubuntu/ (687 files in 191 dirs): merge from Debian 20081113
[13:34] <CIA-2> installation-guide: cjwatson * r437 ubuntu/debian/changelog: document kernelversion change
[15:13] <CIA-2> installation-guide: cjwatson * r438 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/welcome/what-is-ubuntu.xml): Bump GNOME version to 2.26.
[15:15] <CIA-2> installation-guide: cjwatson * r439 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump release version and names for Jaunty.
[16:04] <superm1> cjwatson, a bunch of new options showed up on the mythbuntu live disk daily (Graphical install, graphical expert install, graphical rescue mode) i'm not sure if they are on ubuntu daily too, but they don't/won't work.  do you know if it is an oversight or that it will only be applicable to mythbuntu disks?
[16:05] <CIA-2> partman-target: evand * r738 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 58ubuntu1
[16:39] <cjwatson> superm1: oversight during the merge, it'll get fixed, thanks for letting me know
[16:39] <cjwatson> superm1: shouldn't be showing up just yet at any rate
[17:56] <kirkland> cjwatson: hiya, i've made some good progress on encrypted home, added a "-a" option to ecryptfs-setup-private to set up all of the user's homedir to be encrypted
[17:56] <kirkland> cjwatson: this will be easy to stub into the installer
[17:56] <kirkland> cjwatson: but I'm struggling with the adduser utility
[17:57] <kirkland> cjwatson: it doesn't take the user's chosen password directly
[17:57] <kirkland> cjwatson: rather, it outsources that operation to passwd through a call to the shell
[17:57] <kirkland> cjwatson: as such, i can't exactly obtain/feed that chosen password to ecryptfs-setup-private
[17:59] <kirkland> cjwatson: the only workaround i can think of is to move some of that logic to be handled by pam_ecryptfs on first login
[17:59] <cjwatson> passwd uses pam to set the password as well
[17:59] <cjwatson> can't you intercept it at that point?
[18:00] <kirkland> cjwatson: ah, yeah
[18:00] <kirkland> cjwatson: okay, i think i can handle that
[18:00] <cjwatson> superm1: (fixed for the next build)
[18:00] <superm1> cjwatson, great thanks.
[18:00] <kirkland> cjwatson: also, regarding the installer, for this option ....
[18:01] <kirkland> cjwatson: i'd like to target replacing the "Set up an encrypted private directory" functionality with "Encrypt your entire home directory" option
[18:01] <kirkland> cjwatson: i'll keep the functionality to just encrypted a private dir, that you can setup later
[18:01] <cjwatson> kirkland: ok, that's easier to describe anyway
[18:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: even make a clicky shortcut under System->Preferences->Encryption or something
[18:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: but i think all-or-nothing will be easier from the installer POV
[18:02] <cjwatson> it'll also be easier to wedge into ubiquity's UI
[18:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: also, i think I'd like to default to randomly generated passphrase
[18:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: in the installer, anyway
[18:02] <cjwatson> fine by me, it's retrievable anyway right?
[18:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: also cuts down on the text
[18:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: yes
[18:03] <cjwatson> particularly if you make it retrievable using a UI in System->Preferences
[18:03] <kirkland> cjwatson: again, will put together a clicky util to retrieve it
[18:03] <cjwatson> would it be possible to land the UI fairly early?
[18:03] <kirkland> cjwatson: yes, assuming that either a) i can get some help from the desktop folks
[18:03] <cjwatson> I'd like for that bit not to end up getting left out due to lack of time, if we're relying on it for sanity in various places
[18:03] <cjwatson> i.e. consider in the spec what the consequences of partial implementation are
[18:04] <kirkland> cjwatson: or b) that creating a desktop link that runs the existing utilities in a popup terminal is acceptable
[18:04] <cjwatson> b) won't be, I wouldn't expect
[18:04] <kirkland> cjwatson: /me didn't figure :-P
[18:04] <cjwatson> grab desktop folks sooner rather than later
[18:04] <kirkland> cjwatson: okay, i'll try to get pitti to help, or identify someone who can
[18:05] <kirkland> cjwatson: lastly, i don't plan on providing any automated tools to "migrate" a user's homedir from not-encrypted to encrypted ....
[18:05] <cjwatson> ok, sounds good
[18:05] <cjwatson> send it by mail to pitti+Keybuk so that it gets on the UDS agenda
[18:05] <kirkland> cjwatson: i'll document how to do it from runlevel 1, as root, if anyone wants
[18:05] <cjwatson> that's fine by me; perhaps we can add language to the installation guide
[18:06] <kirkland> cjwatson: but there's too much that could go wrong with risk of a user being logged in, reading/writing data in either source or dest
[18:06] <kirkland> cjwatson: sure
[18:08] <CarlFK> jaunty, alt installer, PATA controler: Nov 20 10:54:53 disk-detect: Serial ATA RAID disk(s) detected.          # Ask the user whether they want to activate dmraid devices.
[18:08] <CarlFK> report to lp?
[18:08] <cjwatson> CarlFK: --verbose
[18:09] <CarlFK> cjwatson: um... where?  (that text came from /var/log/syslog
[18:09] <cjwatson> CarlFK: no, I mean "can you be more verbose"
[18:09] <CarlFK> ah.. there is no pata or raid in this box
[18:10] <CarlFK> installer is asking me if I want to activate the detected sata raid
[18:10] <CarlFK> er, no sata or raid
[18:10] <cjwatson> oh. could you run 'dmraid -c -s' from a shell please?
[18:11] <CarlFK> # dmraid -c -s
[18:11] <CarlFK> no raid disks
[18:11] <cjwatson> is that the exact output?
[18:11] <cjwatson> you haven't changed capitalisation or anything?
[18:11] <CarlFK> yup (cut/paste)
[18:11] <cjwatson> ok, yes please file a bug on hw-detect and I'll get that fixed
[18:14] <CIA-2> hw-detect: cjwatson * r93 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog disk-detect.sh): Make dmraid logging a bit neater.
[18:16] <cjwatson> CarlFK: actually, no need for a bug
[18:17] <CarlFK> cjwatson: ok
[18:18] <cjwatson> fix on its way, thanks for the early report
[18:18] <CarlFK> you're welcome
[18:18] <CIA-2> hw-detect: cjwatson * r94 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog disk-detect.sh): 'dmraid -c -s' changed its output format; cope with both old and new.
[18:23] <CIA-2> hw-detect: cjwatson * r95 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.70ubuntu2
[18:57] <cr3> who takes care of updating the netboot images on archive.u.c: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[18:59] <cjwatson> cr3: me, but we don't update /dists/intrepid/ after release. why?
[19:00] <cr3> cjwatson: I was looking for the netboot images to test the kernel in -proposed, but I didn't find anything under /dists/intrepid-proposed
[19:00] <cjwatson> haven't uploaded one, that's why ;-)
[19:00] <cjwatson> I suppose I can do so, let me just pop a few other things off my stack
[19:01] <cr3> cjwatson: sure thing, I'll work on jaunty in the meanwhile. just drop me a ping
[19:15] <CIA-2> installation-guide: cjwatson * r440 ubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Re-enable documentation of the GTK frontend.
[19:20] <CarlFK> cjwatson: "base-installer/section/setup_dev does not exist"  tail syslog:  http://dpaste.com/92531/  - same install that had the raid problem, any chance it is a side effect?
[19:23] <cjwatson> CarlFK: minor bug but it's not what's causing the failure, despite being immediately before it
[19:23] <cjwatson> doesn't seem like a plausible side-effect to me
[19:24] <CarlFK> didn't think so, just making sure
[19:27] <CarlFK> should I report it to lp?
[19:29] <cjwatson> yes please
[19:29] <cjwatson> the bug is that /dev fails to mount, not that stuff about base-installer/section/setup_dev
[19:29] <cjwatson> (so that you get a reasonable title)
[19:29] <CarlFK> package?
[19:29] <cjwatson> base-installer
[19:35] <cjwatson> CarlFK: (it's kind of odd since base-installer hasn't changed since intrepid ...)
[19:35] <cjwatson> bet it's mount --bind vs. mount -o bind
[19:35] <cjwatson> I'll sort it out anyway
[19:36] <CarlFK> is it trying to mount /dev ? (/dev/sda1 is already mounted - might be the problem?)
[19:37] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2950 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/components/console_setup.py):
[19:37] <CIA-2> ubiquity: Remove seen flag from console-setup/model and console-setup/codeset to
[19:37] <CIA-2> ubiquity: make sure that they don't get misinterpreted as preseeding (LP: #94177).
[19:37] <cjwatson> CarlFK: /dev/sda1 has nothing to do with it
[19:38] <CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-installer/+bug/300426
[19:41] <cjwatson> ta
[19:42] <CIA-2> installation-guide: cjwatson * r441 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081113ubuntu1
[20:10] <cr3> how can I configure the preseed on jaunty to prevent it from attempting to fetch packages from updates and security, I'm not sure if that's causing my installation to fail: Nov 20 20:05:01 base-installer: warning: apt update failed: 100
[20:11] <cjwatson> I'm not entirely sure I'm worried about preseeding on jaunty just yet!
[20:11] <cjwatson> but I can only look at the full syslog, not a one-line snippet
[20:12] <cr3> cjwatson: that reminds me, is there a pastebin that allows me to update a file? I don't mind sending it to people.u.c, but just wondering for other people
[20:12] <cjwatson> I generally suggest paste.ubuntu.com unless people have their own favourite
[20:13] <cjwatson> though don't think it allows updates
[20:13] <cr3> cjwatson: yeah, doesn't support uploads
[20:13] <cr3> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cr3/syslog
[20:13] <cjwatson> doesn't support uploads?
[20:13] <cjwatson> oh you mean a file browser button thing?
[20:14] <cr3> cjwatson: oops, I think we got our wires crossed. pastebin.u.c doesn't support uploads and preseed doesn't support updates, does that sound right?
[20:14] <cjwatson> just use http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-paste
[20:14] <cjwatson> thanks for the syslog
[20:14] <cr3> ok, I think we got our wires straight now. sorry for the confusion
[20:15] <cr3> cjwatson: by the way, your ubuntu-paste is either not executable or not allowed to execute
[20:15] <cjwatson> cr3: the apt update failing is not immediately relevant - the real failure you're running into is bug 300426, which CarlFK mentioned above
[20:15] <cjwatson> cr3: executability is your own problem. chmod +x
[20:15] <cjwatson> download it, I don't expect people to run it on rookery :)
[20:15] <cr3> cjwatson: understood, thanks!
[20:16] <cjwatson> (I don't run it there and I don't think it's good to encourage people to run executables out of other people's home directories ...)
[20:17] <cjwatson> by the way, the jaunty-security and jaunty-updates Packages files exist on the main archive - this is a problem with your mirror
[20:17] <cjwatson> easiest approach is just to mirror those pockets
[20:18] <cjwatson> (they're empty, shouldn't take much effort ...)
[20:19] <cr3> cjwatson: the problem is that I'm testing the alternate image, so I don't want anything retrieved from -updates and -security. however, since that won't prevent the installation from continuing and the problem is the mount bug you mentionned, I should be alright on that front
[20:20] <cjwatson> -updates and -security will be empty until release; there is no reproducibility concern with just letting it fetch from there
[20:20] <cjwatson> but you could set up empty pockets locally if that is a concern
[20:21] <cr3> cjwatson: the concern is simply that I'm using the iso image as my mirror, so I'd have to do something special to handle -updates and -security differently at the web server level
[20:22] <cjwatson> yes, I suppose you would
[20:22] <cjwatson> as I've said before, the use case of using an iso image as a mirror is not truly supported and only works by accident
[20:22] <cr3> cjwatson: something for my todo list...
[20:23] <cjwatson> and indeed it may have to be broken entirely in jaunty
[20:23] <cjwatson> there's a sizeable chunk of CD space that could be freed up at the cost of breaking that
[20:24] <cjwatson> there are other things I can do first, but ...
[20:24] <cr3> cjwatson: agreed, and I assume responsibility. if it breaks, I'm confident we'll find a way to continue automating testing somehow
[20:25] <cjwatson> I won't break it unless I have to
[20:25] <cr3> cjwatson: if you plan to fee up that space, please let me know ahead of time as much as you possibly can. I'm not worried about finding a workaround, I'm more worried about not providing test results during my turnaround time
[20:25] <cjwatson> yes
[20:26] <cjwatson> basically the problem is that in order to support this case we have to duplicate some udebs between the initrd and /pool/
[20:26] <CarlFK> cr3: what's wrong with letting it hit security.ubuntu.com ?
[20:27] <cr3> cjwatson: by the way, that mount bug doesn't sound hardware specific and should affect all my installation. does the bug also affect installations directly from the media?
[20:27] <cjwatson> the mount bug is not hardware-specific and affects everyone
[20:27] <cjwatson> it's about first or second on my list
[20:28] <cr3> CarlFK: the problem is that I test the iso image using a network install, so my archive is the mounted image which doesn't contain -updates nor -security
[20:28] <cjwatson> I just want to reproduce it first
[20:29] <CarlFK> cr3: but what is the problem?  (given I don't think it is affecting anything)
[20:30] <cr3> CarlFK: there is no problem other than my misunderstanding. I thought "warning: apt update failed: 100" was affecting the installation but it turns out it was the mount problem that cjwatson is working on
[20:30] <CarlFK> ah.  carry on :)
[20:42] <cjwatson> something distinctly odd in the innards of busybox here. what is going on
[21:52] <superm1> evand, i didn't realize until I read that foundations team summary that you were doing an SRU for usb-creator to intrepid.  are the patches I submitted going to be in that SRU, or just a few other more critical things?


[17:52] <sveinse> It is generally recommended to run a debootstrap installer for a target system on a native machine. Is it considered safe to do installations/upgrades (like apt-get update and such) for a target chroot system on a native machine?
[17:53] <sveinse> persia ^^
[23:14] <persia> sveinse, All native operations are considered safe and expected to work.  Foreign operations may work, but aren't promised to do so.
[23:15] <persia> The common pattern for generating an image is to use debootstrap to create a base filesystem, then to install packages into that, then to wrap the bundle for deployment onto target systems, which then perform the upgrades.
[23:19] <sveinse> thanks. What do you mean by "wrap the bundle" ?
[23:20] <persia> Implementations differ, but it's essentially taking some bundle of files (the chroot), and putting in some structure that may be treated as a filesystem.
[23:21] <sveinse> Ah, ok, then I understand. It's the part where in our case, generate the uSD card image FS
[23:21] <persia> This may involve copying it into a loop-mount, running something like mksquashfs or ubunize, etc.
[23:21] <sveinse> yep
[23:21] <persia> Precisely.
[23:22] <sveinse> But you mention the upgrade post deployment or am I misunderstanding?
[23:22] <persia> Some implementations will create a loop-mount first, then mount it, then debootstrap on that mount: but this requires knowing the space you require in advance.
[23:22] <persia> Yes, upgrades are usually post-deployment.
[23:23] <persia> So, when you construct the filesystem, you want to construct it to include all the updates available at the time of filesystem creation.
[23:23] <persia> If you have -updates in your sources.list when creating it, apt will take care of this for you.
[23:24] <persia> Then, post-deployment, end-users will continue to update their systems, which provides a channel for bugfixes, security fixes, etc.
[23:24] <sveinse> Here's how I think it should be (from my understanding):  1) debootstrap chroot, 2) install packages into chroot, 3) create uSD image from chroot, 4) Install into device. The user should then not have to see an upgrade process while his first boot. Or?
[23:24] <persia> Some users may choose to "upgrade", meaning to move to the next release of Ubuntu, but this is outside the scope of your filesystem creation.
[23:25] <persia> The user *may* see an update process at first boot, depending on the time between filesystem creation and first-boot.
[23:25] <persia> For each Ubuntu release, we generally have 10-15 updates available at the time of the release announcement, so 0.1% of packages.
[23:26] <persia> (or a bit less, but close to that)
[23:26] <persia> So, you're a bit different, because you're doing a derivative, with a fair bit of software that isn't in the Ubuntu repositories.
[23:26] <sveinse> Yeah, that will happen if the user has a working internet access on the device. I.e. the device will apt-get update itself upon firstboot
[23:27] <persia> Right.
[23:27] <persia> You'll need to have available repositories containing that software, to provide updates and security fixes to it.
[23:27] <persia> (unless you got things working with qt4-x11, and want to put your stuff in the regular archives :) )
[23:28] <persia> The moreso because if you just point users at the regular archive, they may end up with updates that impact your software.
[23:28] <sveinse> What exactly triggers the apt-get update in the first place? The first boot?
[23:29] <persia> There's a few things.
[23:29] <persia> So, if you're using oem-config (recommended), I believe there's an update at first boot as part of that.
[23:29] <sveinse> yeah, ok
[23:30] <persia> There's a bunch of packages in the archive that provide scheduled update-type stuff: some will do an apt-get update, some will just check to see if one needs to be done, some will update the cache and download (but not install) all the updates, and some will automatically update the software.
[23:31] <persia> If you want any of these features, you'll want to have one of those packages included in your filesystem.
[23:32] <sveinse> yes. The only detail which comes into mind now, is the fact that the user may not have setup the wireless yet, so internet will not be available early in the process
[23:32] <persia> I think that if oem-config doesn't have access to the internet, it doesn't ask the user questions about it.
[23:33] <persia> (but you want to test, especially in your (fairly different) environment)
[23:33] <sveinse> Anyways, my question was how to migrate from nothing via debootstrap to the device image, and I got my answer, thanks
[23:34] <sveinse> I'll dive into oem-config later -- but I will eventually
[23:34] <persia> If you're planning scheduled updates, the recommendation is to have something that uses update-notifier-common (you may find muon-notifier a good example from which to collect code)
[23:34]  * sveinse taking notes
[23:35] <persia> Sorry.  I don't mean to overwhelm you :)
[23:36] <sveinse> No, no problem. I'm just afraid of coming back weeks later and repeating the same questions :P
[23:36] <sveinse> In fact, I'm grateful
[23:37] <sveinse> Obviously from our previous discussions, the way I've found is not necessarily the correct way of doing things
[23:38] <persia> At least it's not the way that things are commonly done in Ubuntu, so may not be getting the level of testing you might expect.
[23:38] <persia> I'm hesitant to say that other ways are wrong (with specific exceptions), if they are known to work.
[23:39] <sveinse> Since my setup is somewhat unique, I need to do the testing and QA qualification anyways. I wouldn't expect nor ask that of the community
[23:41] <persia> Heh.  If you are planning on a product release and don't have an internal qualification process, something is likely to go very wrong, even if you weren't special.
[23:41] <sveinse> very true
[23:42] <persia> That said, it makes sense to select solutions that are more common in many cases, as they likely receive more testing, are more mature, etc.
[23:42] <persia> (this isn't always the case: sometimes there are cool new things that are genuinely good, but they do require more attention if selected, just in case)
[23:44] <sveinse> as said before, we're living on the edge between native and cross compilation, so in that respect we are stretching the Ubuntu normal way of doing things. I believe neither method is bad, just different. So we know the added risk of being on that edge
[23:44] <persia> I agree that neither is bad.  I'm deeply suspicious of mixing them.  I can only wish you luck.
[23:45] <sveinse> But that being said, we are actually considering buying a target system (for the build server) to do the debootstrap staging and making the final images
[23:46] <persia> Some of them are getting *really* inexpensive these days.  Pandas and Quickstarts seems to work rathre nicely, considering the cost.
[23:46] <sveinse> But for performance reasons, I belive we will cross build some of the binary debs (kernel, Qt libs and Qt app -- all of which are designed well for cross compilation)
[23:46] <persia> And everyone else is coming out with similar things (although I haven't gotten as much feedback about them)
[23:47] <persia> Development-performance, build-time performance, or run-time performance?
[23:47] <persia> I think they ought be equivalent for runtime performance.
[23:47] <sveinse> Yup, The IT dept will cheer the day I come with a armel box in a 19" rack. (And I'm not to persue a rack building process like you guys are doing for your pandas :) )
[23:48] <sveinse> But I admire you're effort on that
[23:48] <persia> cross-build for development performance makes sense, although in Ubuntu a final native build is always done for deployment.
[23:48] <sveinse> your
[23:48] <sveinse> yes
[23:48] <persia> Thank davidm: it's his idea, and his labour.  Lovely stuff though.
[23:55] <sveinse> BTW does anyone here know how I can list which dirs and their order ld.so is searching for so's? I'm not sure if "cat /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf" is giving the right order
[23:57] <persia> I think it does.
[23:57] <persia> If not, then the .d implementation is not matching expectations.
[23:59] <persia> `ldconfig -p` seems to generate something that may help if you're encountering an issue.


[10:28] <aday> JanC: of the Borchardt variety?
[10:28] <JanC> no
[10:29] <aday> JanC: ha ha. ok
[10:31] <JanC> I think he's JanCBorchardt or something like that on IRC
[10:32] <JanC> right, and accordign to my grep he hasn't been on-line here since 2010-10-17  ;)
[10:34] <aday> JanC: i was hoping he might have shortened his nick :) thanks for the info
[10:36] <seb128> klattimer, you didn't have any detail on the leaks in your valgrind log?
[10:37] <klattimer> seb128: no, I just ran a standard valgrind to ensure that I wasn't talking crap to tedg
[10:37] <klattimer> but there's a a definite leak, I'm re-running with leak check full now and will upload a more complete log at the end of the run
[10:37] <seb128> well valgrind should display a summary of all the leaks before exiting
[10:37] <seb128> ok
[10:37] <klattimer> I'm gonna leave it going all day so we get a better result
[10:41] <seb128> klattimer, well usually all day give extra logs to read but nothing better
[10:41] <seb128> I would do a 15 minutes run to start
[10:41] <seb128> it might spot the obvious issues already
[10:42] <klattimer> seb128: OK
[10:42] <seb128> then you can run it for a day to see if anything else shows up on that time
[10:42] <klattimer> well it's running now
[10:42] <klattimer> I'll leave it going until 11
[10:42] <klattimer> UK time
[10:54] <seb128> ok
[11:01] <klattimer> seb128: the full valgrind is up
[11:01] <klattimer> and I think it's coming from the menu icons
[11:04] <seb128> klattimer, would be nice to do the same with the debug symbols for dbusmenu and gtk
[11:04] <seb128> and libpng
[11:06] <seb128> klattimer, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash has details on how to set up the ddeb source if you don't have one
[11:12] <klattimer> seb128: yeah I noticed those symbols were missing
[11:12] <klattimer> I'll install them and re-run
[11:13] <seb128> thanks
[11:19] <klattimer> seb128: running now
[11:19] <klattimer> ... and now back to deluge
[11:43] <Cimi> dbarth: new nick?
[14:21] <kenvandine> dbarth, i think the indicator-me problem is somehow related to the focus event problems that klattimer is fighting with in ibus
[14:22] <kenvandine> the first time the mouse goes into the entry, entry_focus_grab_cb gets called
[14:22] <kenvandine> then every other time the mouse goes in, entry_focus_out_cb
[14:22] <kenvandine> there is never a focus-in
[14:22] <kenvandine> klattimer, does that sound similar to what you are seeing in ibus?
[14:44] <seb128> kenvandine, klattimer: could one of you review the patches on bug #653995?
[14:45] <seb128> the merge request seems buggy but the bug has 2 patches attached as well
[14:45] <kenvandine> klattimer, do you have time for that?
[15:44] <lamalex> I really want unity to stop maximizing my windows
[15:48] <klattimer> seb128: kenvandine just got back from lunch sorry
[15:48] <klattimer> I'll take a look at them now
[15:49] <seb128> thanks
[15:49] <klattimer> seb128: one concern
[15:49] <klattimer> the GdkPixbuf isn't freed
[15:49] <klattimer> and probably should be at some point
[15:50] <klattimer> but the time that it requires freeing is on application close so it's kinda a hmm-mmm-hrrr-har thing
[15:50] <seb128> right
[16:23] <lamalex> ugh I am so sick of osx comparisons/complaints


[17:50] <GeistMacht> Hello, I was wondering if anyone is using budgie 17.04 with multimonitor support and the nvidia 382 driver.
[17:52] <GeistMacht> I have not been able to get mine working yet and my 16.04 budgie deployment I have to disconnect 2 monitors and then add them 1 by 1 in order to bypass the glitching.
[17:54] <GeistMacht> Specs: Lenovo P7, Quadro M600, Intel disabled in the bios running legacy bios non efi
[17:58] <fossfreedom> GeistMacht, probably better to ask this on askubuntu.com - much larger audience.  I'm aware of a member of the team that is using 17.04 driving 3 monitors using nvidia 375.  No idea about 382
[18:00] <GeistMacht> Will do, I upgraded to 382 from 375,  thanks for the feedback.


[00:46]  * elky headdesks about switchgirl in -ot
[00:59] <Seeker`> what did she do?
 wtf http://shop.string.fr/ViewCategories.aspx?CategoryID=55 lol nsfw
[01:00] <elky> followed by talk about using gimp to make her pubic hair the shape of the ubuntu logo
[01:01] <Seeker`> eugh
[01:02] <elky> leading to spaceghostc2c's horny baying and asking for "pics" of other people's tattoos accompanying enquiries about which "variety" of human they are.
[01:04] <elky> ha. now a non-apology in PM. "i'm not good at keeping my cool when i didn't do anything wrong"
[02:50] <ScottK> HFSPLUS is begging to be kicked from #ubuntu-server, I'd appreciate it if someone would oblige him.
[03:24] <Amaranth> arg known troll
[05:10] <maco> username DrDamnit in #ubuntu ... ok??
[05:12] <elky> borderline. done anything notably bad?
[05:12] <maco> no
[05:12] <maco> just wondering if anyone wanted to ask them to change it
[05:13] <elky> probably not
[05:13] <maco> ok
[06:18] <maco> if marco comes in here whining about  ban in #ubuntu-women, he was being trollish and called elky the "c" word
[06:18] <bazhang> whoa
[06:18] <elky> because i told him to lay off maco. he was harrassing her about having laptops that dont usb-boot
[06:18] <maco> i'm going to bed, but ya know... elky = witness
[06:19] <bazhang> how about @mark #channel maco
[06:19] <elky> something about how she ought to care for his sake because it might be useful in half a decade when she kits out again.
[06:19] <maco> bazhang: i cant use the bt
[06:19] <bazhang> maco, okay, simply marco ?
[06:19] <maco> yes, marco
[06:20] <bazhang> marked
[06:20] <maco> thanks
[06:37] <elky> !guidelines > marco
[06:37] <maco> !coc > marco
[06:37] <maco> as well
[06:38] <elky> i was going for 1 piece of information at a time. besides, the code is linked from guidelines
[06:39] <maco> oh i didnt know they were linked. sorry :(
[06:39] <elky> it's a link on the guidelines page.
[06:39] <elky> that's ok, we usually do send it independently as well, but guidelines alone *can* suffice
[06:39] <maco> i just looked at the factoid and saw it didnt say "see also !coc"
[06:40] <elky> that's ok :)
[06:40] <elky> his link seems to have dropped out anyway
[06:57] <ikonia> be aware the jak_o_shadows = Panarchy
[07:05] <elky> ikonia, trouble elsewhere?
[07:05] <ikonia> just two other channels
[07:05] <ikonia> same question / atttidue
[07:07] <elky> this feels awfully like a tagteam
[07:07] <ikonia> talking to racecar in pm
[07:07] <ikonia> he's always like this
[07:09] <ikonia> I don't think it's a tag team, I think one is new/doesn't know the rules, the other (racecare) is just a pain (same style is people like indus)
[07:09] <elky> got a /k readied for asc...
[07:09] <elky> ikonia, i meant the guy you kicked followed in quick succession by asc...
[07:09] <ikonia> ahhh
[07:09] <ikonia> different country IP's
[07:14] <dholbach> good morning
[07:14] <ikonia> morning
[07:21] <ikonia> what's the correct process to report this miss-use of the ubuntu name
[07:21] <ikonia> http://ubuntusatanic.org/
[07:21] <ikonia> ?
[07:22] <mneptok> i don't see the misuse.
[07:22] <ikonia> how the hell is timewarper still showing as in #ubuntu in my /whois - yet he's not there
[07:23] <ikonia> mneptok: really - satanic edition ?
[07:24] <topyli> the muslim edition changed its name to 'sabily'. i don't know if canonical requested this or there was another reason
[07:24] <ikonia> worth noting - if it's not a problem, it's not a problem
[07:24] <mneptok> there was also "Ubuntu Christian Edition"
[07:25] <ikonia> mneptok: it may not be a problem, I don't know who to talk to to check
[07:25] <mneptok> http://ubuntuce.com/download.htm
[07:25] <ikonia> I'm more interested at this exact moment how Timewarper is showing up as in #ubuntu - yet not there
[07:26] <mneptok> if you allow "Christian Edition" but not "Satanic Edition," it smells of religious intolerance to me.
[07:26] <mneptok> *shrug*
[07:26] <ikonia> mneptok: I don't know - hence why I want to ask/check
[07:26] <topyli> oh. the problem with the muslim edition: "The word Edition has a very specific meaning for the Ubuntu project and we do not allow different projects to refer to editions" https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-tn/2009-March/002935.html
[07:28] <mneptok> so then both Christian and Satanic Editions should be reported to Canonical.
[07:28] <mneptok> (IMO)
[07:28] <ikonia> ok - I'll speak to someone about both
[07:28] <ikonia> I'm not saying it's right/wrong - I'm trying to get clarity
[07:28] <elky> i wouldn't at all be surprised if trademarks team put their foot in it early and already granted permission to them
[07:28] <ikonia> elky: then that's fine and not a problem
[07:29] <ikonia> there is a note on the website saying they did grant it a license - but that doesn't mean they actually did
[07:29] <elky> CE has been around since before the editions terminology was used by the project itself i think
[07:31] <Flannel> CE isn't CE anymore, I don't think.
[07:31] <Flannel> didn't it become Ithux or something?
[07:32] <Flannel> Ichthux.  Ah, that's KDE, Ubuntu CE is gnome it seems.
[07:33] <Flannel> ikonia: https://forms.canonical.com/trademarkviolation is linked from the trademark page
[07:35]  * Flannel has no idea if Ubuntu CE would be allowed under the derived works policy.
[07:35] <ikonia> Flannel: thanks
[07:42] <ikonia> ughhhh
[07:43] <ikonia> elky: Pici jussi01 ??? awake
[07:43] <mneptok> ikonia: none of them is on the #x access list
[07:43] <elky> i am, but i dont hae #x fu
[07:43] <ikonia> I know, - I asked cody to help
[07:44] <ikonia> as in add more people
[07:44] <ikonia> cody-somerville: ping
[07:46] <ikonia> what a surprise - he's in #archlinux too
[07:49] <ikonia> trying to get hold of a staff member as staff have access
[07:50] <jussi01> ole hyvä ikonia
[07:51] <jussi01> mneptok: ircc nick is though :)
[07:51] <mneptok> jussi01: never seen any Council member actually use it.
[07:51] <jussi01> mneptok: you just did now...
[07:52] <jussi01> mneptok: I dont have to /nick to it, just identify as it
[08:02] <Flannel> ikonia: Wow, you're famous
[08:02] <ikonia> Flannel: ?
[08:03] <Flannel> ikonia: He just changed his nick to "IkoniaISaBIATCH", and I just noticed he's in #math
[08:04] <ikonia> ahhh it's shockrates
[08:04] <ikonia> ban bans for that poor person
[08:04] <ikonia> many
[08:05] <ikonia> Flannel: he wasn't happy about being banned, typical response, I've informed jtrucks on staff, don't really want to be associated with that
[08:08] <ikonia> Flannel: is he still going on in #math ?
[08:10] <Flannel> ikonia: He never said anything in #math, just nick changes
[08:10] <ikonia> ah
[08:10] <ikonia> he's been going nuts in some other channels
[08:11] <ikonia> and k-lined.....
[08:43] <elky> ikonia, whoa, you're a real magnet tonight
[10:41]  * ikonia flaunts his magnetic skills
[12:50] <tsimpson> why is ubuntulog in -unregged?
[13:20] <niko> in #ubuntu-devel you have glapow<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:20] <niko> which is a url grabber bot
[13:21] <jussi01> niko: what exactly does it do?
[13:22] <Pici> niko: ty
[13:22] <Pici> jussi01: looks like it posts links here: http://scrutator.lo2k.net/
[13:22] <niko> http://scrutator.lo2k.net/Master/search
[13:23] <jussi01> oh yeah, havent we had these before?
[13:23] <jussi01> its also in #ubuntu
[13:24] <Pici> jussi01: it also seems to sometimes post in-context logs.
[13:24] <jussi01> right. lets have a quick look through our ml logs, seem to remember something of this description sometime back
[13:36] <jussi01> Pici: doesnt look like it. elky, youve a good memory, do you remember the resolution or even the similar issue that came up?
[13:36] <Pici> jussi01: Are you thinking of irseek?
[13:37] <jussi01> Pici: no.
[13:37] <tsimpson> anyone know why ubuntulog is in -unregged?
[13:37] <Pici> tsimpson: no idea
[13:37] <jussi01> tsimpson: no idea
[13:37] <elky> jussi01, not good enough for your liking this time around i'm afraid.
[13:38] <elky> i dont recall this mob at all. intriguing concept though
[13:38] <Pici> jussi01: Perhaps AfterDeath's bot?
[13:39] <jussi01> Pici: maybe, I dont remember, except that we had some bot posting to a similar web page.
[13:40] <Pici> niko: By the way... What brought this to your attention?
[13:40] <jpds> tsimpson: Not AGAIN.
[13:40] <jussi01> its still in #ubuntu though
[13:41] <jussi01> tsimpson: jpds^^
[13:41] <jpds> tsimpson: On another note, any idea what could be causing: ubot2: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/196703)
[13:41] <niko> Pici: cause we found it on #ubuntu-fr
[13:42] <niko> so i believed that you should be aware about it too
[13:42] <tsimpson> jpds: exactly what it says, LP timed out while requesting https://launchpad.net/bugs/196703/+text
[13:43] <jpds> tsimpson: It's doing it for every bug though.
[13:45] <tsimpson> jpds: the error comes right from supybot.utils.web.getUrl as far as I can see
[13:49] <jpds> Looks like Nafallo's routes on the server are broken.
[13:51] <Daviey> Nafallo was doing some physical server admin over the weekend
[13:52] <jpds> I know (all too well).
[13:54] <jpds> ;)
[13:57] <jussi01> jpds: since you are involved with bot development, you may want to idle in #ubuntu-bots-devel? ;)
[13:57] <jpds> Daviey: Yay, his route to AS6908 is dead.
[13:58] <jpds> jussi01: I'm already on 40 channels. :P
[14:00] <Pici> jpds: only 40?
[15:05] <tsimpson> jpds: please disable Bugtracker in #kubuntu-bugs
[15:16] <MenZa> What on Earth is bobo on about in #u?
[15:17] <tsimpson> not sure, but it looks offtopic to me
 i'm looking for a simple distro under 2gb that will boot fast and act like asus "expressgate"
[15:17] <MenZa> 2009-12-07 15:16:10 UTC] < bobo> all i know is ubuntu is SLOWWWWWWWW compared to dsl
[15:18] <MenZa> I was looking at that
[15:18] <ikonia> he's not asked in ##linux
[15:18] <Pici> Lets see if telling him it was offtopic was enough.
[15:19]  * ikonia puts down his $10
[18:17] <genii> murlidhar: Perhaps try some channel like ##hardware
[18:18] <ikonia> wrong channel genii
[18:18] <genii> Apologies
[18:18] <ikonia> no need for that
[18:26] <genii> ikonia: Weird, haven't seen ubottu spit out the !it factoid to mielo yet
[18:26] <genii> Looks like bot might be offline
[18:26] <ikonia> being a bit slow
[18:56] <tsimpson> genii: please don't recommend people use kubuntu-ppa/staging
[18:57] <genii> tsimpson: OK, apologies.
[18:57] <tsimpson> it's only for working on the packages, they'll be moved to updates or backports when done
[19:38] <Pici> indeed.
[19:39] <Pici> !staff
[19:40] <Pici> ty
[19:54]  * genii slides mneptok a coffee
[19:55]  * mneptok slurps maniacally
[20:26] <genii> mneptok: Same guy in #k acting up. Didn't bother with kick, just went to +b
[20:37]  * pleia2 hugs Pricey
[20:37] <pleia2> :)
[20:39] <Pricey> pleia2: sorry :-/
[20:39] <Pricey> pleia2: i'm being an arse :-/
[20:39] <Pricey> but thanks for trying with me
[20:39] <Pricey> i'll try and smile
[20:39] <pleia2> Pricey: I understand that this whole thing has been very frustrating
[20:40] <pleia2> your nudges to help this process along have been good, between UDS, US Thanksgiving holiday and my cold coma last week I haven't been as attentive lately as I could have been
[20:41] <pleia2> anyway, we'll get it sorted :)
[20:41] <Pricey> pleia2: ugh i hope so
[20:41] <Pricey> pleia2: i really am not out to be an arse, i just want some of the things fixed for the new council that annoyed me.
[20:41] <pleia2> Pricey: *nod* I understand
[20:43] <pleia2> luckily one of the things that was discussed at length at UDS was governance in general - and having very specific timelines for re-elections so we don't get stuck in this kind of position again (tiny councils we're trying to do stuff with, while not being accused of over-stepping our limits by bypassing them and talking to the community directly)
[20:43] <pleia2> so we know when re-elections are coming, have structure for getting it done efficiently
[20:45] <Pricey> hmmm, latest email was truncated
[20:48]  * genii screams
[20:49] <Flannel> "Will stop attacking when you ban me"
[20:49] <nalioth> maco: i see no question - just a repaste of the string
[20:50] <maco> nalioth: yeah i think theyre pasting it hoping someone will explain what it means
[20:53] <Pricey> again?
[20:55] <Flannel> Pricey: she heard you
[20:55] <Pricey> Flannel: ^5
[21:05] <jpds> Can we just +r #ubuntu (forever) ?
[21:06] <Flannel> "please take a ticket, wait for your number to be called"
[21:06] <tsimpson> can we clear some bans maybe? ;)
[21:06] <Pricey> Flannel: there you go
[21:07] <Pricey> tsimpson++
[21:07] <Pricey> I kinda like that, replacing DCC attack spam with -b spam.
[21:25] <Flannel> Mmm, BT has old FB forwards tta aren't marked as removed even though they are.  Is there a way to get those sorted?
[21:26] <tsimpson> guess I need to run updatebt
[21:28] <tsimpson> [21:27:57]<ubottu> Cleared 496 obsolete bans, Added 71 new bans
[21:28] <tsimpson> wow
[21:29] <Flannel> Yeah, I'm looking at bans from May of 08, and got my hopes up we'd have an easy time cleaning :)
[21:29] <Flannel> That update, should that take effect immediately?
[21:30] <tsimpson> yep
[21:30] <Flannel> Nith!*@*!#ubuntu-read-topic doesn't exist, but is in the BT
[21:30] <Flannel> (as just one example)
[21:32] <tsimpson> it shows as removed to me
[21:32] <tsimpson> strangely, there are now 2 entries...
[21:33] <Flannel> I'm only searching non-removed, so if there's a removed one, I don't see it
[21:33] <Flannel> Ah
[21:33] <tsimpson> I guess I'll need to fix those manually
[21:33] <Flannel> Ouch.  There's quite a few
[22:46] <Pricey> -r'd should be good now
[23:30] <jrib> weird, lenswipe sounds familiar to me
[23:33] <KismetGFX> test me fort he dcc exploit pls