[00:50] <TrickyJ> Hi good morning friends :)
[00:51] <cjohnston> evenin'
[13:33] <cjohnston> could someone check out https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-directory/705265 please
[13:34] <czajkowski> cjohnston: hi
[13:35] <cjohnston> hey czajkowski
[13:38] <cjohnston> mhall119: can owner be automatic, instead of being assigned?
[14:34] <mhall119> it can be,but it shouldn't be
[14:35] <Pendulum> mhall119: glad you have a coffee maker again :P
[14:38] <mhall119> me too :)
[14:39] <mhall119> cjohnston: pushing a rev with the date format fix
[14:40] <cjohnston> ok
[14:40] <cjohnston> i think maybe a tab for the indent?
[14:40] <cjohnston> seems a little close to me.. expecially with a description
[14:41] <cjohnston> it may just be me, i dunno
[14:43] <cjohnston> meeting is all utc.. i guess could specify utc
[14:46] <mhall119> cjohnston: like http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8016/agendah.png better?
[14:46] <mhall119> I think for consistency we should specity timezone, even when it's always gonna be UTC
[14:47] <cjohnston> i do like that better
[14:49] <mhall119> pushed
[14:50] <mhall119> I wonder if we'll be able to have this out by the 25th
[14:51] <cjohnston> whats the 25th?
[14:51] <mhall119> time for another florida team meeting
[14:51] <mhall119> we didn't have the last 2, due to the holidays
[14:52] <cjohnston> ic
[15:02] <mhall119> okay, one more push to my agenda branch
[15:02] <mhall119> this one adds meetings to the site search results
[15:04] <mhall119> man, we are way overdue for a release
[15:07] <mhall119> czajkowski: feeling better now?
[15:07] <czajkowski> aye
[15:07] <czajkowski> a lot more human thanks
[15:11] <cjohnston> mhall119: what do you think about the mouseover
[15:12] <mhall119> what mouseover?
[15:13] <cjohnston> Can we have a mouseover on the agenda item link say something like "Update <agenda item>" (i.e. when you hover over "Agenda item 1" in: Agenda item 1 - Chris Johnston @ 2011-01-23 13:53    it would read "Update Agenda item 1"
[15:16] <mhall119> ok
[15:16] <cjohnston> give some sort of clue as to what the link is for
[15:19] <mhall119> How about "Update Agenda Item: {{item.title}}"
[15:20] <cjohnston> sure
[15:20] <mhall119> rev 371
[15:22] <cjohnston> just found a nice bonk
[15:22] <mhall119> um....
[15:22] <cjohnston> try to delete a parent item and see what happens
[15:23] <cjohnston> do you get an issue?
[15:23] <cjohnston> (parent item with a child item)
[15:23] <mhall119> nope
[15:23] <mhall119> it warns that children will be deletes
[15:23] <mhall119> deleted
[15:23] <mhall119> but it deletes it all okay
[15:23] <cjohnston> thats the difference between you and me
[15:23] <cjohnston> http://paste.ubuntu.com/557238/
[15:24] <mhall119> hmmm, must be because I made my account superuser
[15:27] <cjohnston> it looks like removing agenda items requires to be a contact or above
[15:27] <mhall119> okay, copy/paste fail, fixed it
[15:27] <mhall119> it should only require you be a member of the team or lc
[15:28] <cjohnston> question... do we want to allow non-members the ability to add agenda items
[15:28] <cjohnston> say you wanted to go talk to -us-ma about dev week
[15:28] <mhall119> hmmm...
[15:28] <cjohnston> should you be required to poke someone whos a team member to add the item for you
[15:28] <mhall119> that's kind of what I'm thinking
[15:29] <mhall119> czajkowski: what are your thoughts?
[15:29] <czajkowski> hmm
[15:29] <czajkowski> I'd say no
[15:29] <mhall119> you don't really want to barge into another team's meeting
[15:29] <czajkowski> as if they are adding stuff to an agenda they are active in some way
[15:29] <mhall119> it's usually best to request that it be added
[15:30] <cjohnston> k
[15:30] <mhall119> we'll call it software enforced courtesy
[15:31] <cjohnston> lol
[15:31] <czajkowski> :)
[15:33] <cjohnston> mhall119: what do you think about trying to find some way to word that if they want to delete a parent, but not a child, to edit the child and remove the parent from it
[15:33] <cjohnston> just a thought
[15:34] <cjohnston> im not sure how much we want to explain
[15:34] <cjohnston> hehehehe
[15:34] <cjohnston> heres a fun one
[15:35] <cjohnston> make the parent a child of its child
[15:35] <cjohnston> i would think that should make the child the parent and the parent the child
[15:43] <mhall119> hmmm, that would break stuff, most likely
[15:44] <cjohnston> uh huh
[15:44] <cjohnston> http://paste.ubuntu.com/557242/
[15:44] <cjohnston> it was pretty cool.. the agenda items disappeared
[15:46] <mhall119> yeah, but it's likely to cause max recursion depth errors
[15:46] <mhall119> good catch
[15:46] <cjohnston> it should either show an error, or somehow be able to do it
[15:47] <cjohnston> have I just f'ed my db now to where i cant do much else with agenda items
[15:47] <cjohnston> ?
[15:51] <cjohnston> my stupid math thing keeps f'ing up with google chrome
[15:51] <cjohnston> i dont wanna have to go back to ff
[15:52] <mhall119> you'll have to manually undo the cyclic parent/child loop you created, yeah
[15:52] <czajkowski> mhall119: can you give wifey a mASSIVE hug from me please
[15:53] <cjohnston> ummmmmm
[15:54] <mhall119> czajkowski: sure
[15:56] <mhall119> cjohnston: okay, got a fix that will exclude all descendents of an agenda item from it's "parent" dropdown
[15:56] <cjohnston> so if changes are needed, it would require to make the child a parent and then make the originial parent a child
[15:57] <mhall119> yeah, you'd have to re-parent the child first
[15:58] <cjohnston> make a fix to fix my db too.. :-P
[16:03] <mhall119> you using sqlite?
[16:05] <cjohnston> ya
[16:05] <mhall119> just delete * from meetings_agendaitem; and start over if you need to
[16:06] <mhall119> or, if you know the one you changed, just remove it's parent value
[16:15] <mhall119> one more fix
[16:15] <mhall119> sheesh
[16:17] <mhall119> good that we're catching these bugs now though
[16:20] <cjohnston> +si
[16:20] <cjohnston> what did you find
[16:23] <mhall119> evidently before a model is saved, it's Manytomany will return all records for that model
[16:23] <mhall119> so, my exclude-descendents script was excluding all agenda items at the add agenda item form
[16:25] <mhall119> czajkowski: what's going on with the Irish government?
[16:26] <mhall119> didn't them PM just win a confidence vote last week or something?
[17:23] <czajkowski> mhall119: so the Taoiseach won the motion, much to many peoples susprise what has happened today was the other majority party in power has stepped down
[17:24] <czajkowski> this forces the government to hold an election earlier
[17:24] <czajkowski> but also means there are issues surrounding passing a bill that is needed
[18:41] <nessomamon> buenas
[18:55] <cjohnston> mhall119: how does the order thing work... i made the first agenda item #4, it showed up as #1.. I added 4 more, and the one that I assigned to #4 is #5
[18:55] <cjohnston> even though it says order #4
[18:58] <cjohnston> and all the others have an order # of 1
[19:00] <cjohnston> hmm.. #2 shows up in the #3 spot, #3 shows up in the #4 spot, and #4 shows up in the #5 spo
[19:00] <cjohnston> t
[19:03] <cjohnston> i assume it is because two are listed as #1
[19:03] <cjohnston> so i would guess that somehow it needs to be smart enough to know that #1 already exists
[19:06] <Ronnie> evening all
[19:09] <mhall119> cjohnston: it just sorts by order....
[19:09] <mhall119> parent, order, created-date
[19:09] <mhall119> in that order
[19:09] <mhall119> I'll test it out and see what I can find
[19:11] <cjohnston> whats the point of the order then?
[19:13] <mhall119> to manually tweak the order if you don't want is simply sorted by created date
[19:14] <mhall119> if you have 1, 1, 1, 1, 4
[19:14] <mhall119> then 4 should be the last one
[19:14] <mhall119> those with order '1' will be sorted by created date in the first 4 slots
[19:15] <mhall119> or at least that's how it's supposed to work
[19:15] <mhall119> if it's not, then it's a bug somewhere
[19:17] <mhall119> hmmm, doesn't seem to be working :(
[19:17] <mhall119> it used to
[19:17] <mhall119> I wonder what I broke
[19:18] <mhall119> no wait, it is working
[19:19] <mhall119> yeah, it seems to be doing what it's supposed to
[19:20] <cjohnston> ok
[19:21] <cjohnston> i would think ordering it #4 would put it in the #4 spot i guess
[19:35]  * nigelb waves
[19:40] <mhall119> cjohnston: nope, it'll just put it lower than anything with a lower order number
[19:40] <mhall119> hiya nigelb
[19:41] <nigelb> hey mhall119 :)
[19:41]  * nigelb just reached home
[19:42] <mhall119> how was the beach?
[19:49] <nigelb> mhall119: I have no words to describe it
[19:49] <nigelb> Total fun.  WEnt to bed everyday after 3
[20:33] <cjohnston> mhall119: I got the error again.. all i did was load the page.. i didnt click anything else
[20:36] <cjohnston> mhall119: the log url doesnt seem to produce any results
[21:44] <markjones> Has anybody ever written a presentation on Ubuntu?
[21:44] <markjones> I need help
[21:45] <czajkowski> markjones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations quick google shows that
[21:45] <markjones> ty czajkowski
[21:45] <czajkowski> np


[00:55] <skellat> Food for thought seen elsewhere: http://blogs.voanews.com/all-about-america/2014/12/19/people-of-german-ancestry-dominate-us-melting-pot/
[00:55] <jenni> [ People of German Ancestry Dominate US Melting Pot « All About America ] - https://j.mp/1AOPcHG
[02:50] <skellat> MEETING: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-ohio/927/detail/
[02:50] <jenni> [ Final Meeting for 2014 | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal ] - https://j.mp/1JSF4BS
[04:26] <JackFrost> And I am 100% not going to be there in any way, shape, or form. :P
[04:28] <JackFrost> Have a good meeting.


[09:09] <cjwatson> infinity: I notice you're using subprocess.check_output in buildrecipe now.  Doesn't launchpad-buildd need to stick to features that were in Python 2.5 until we upgrade off lucid?
[09:09] <cjwatson> Er, hardy I mean
[09:09] <cjwatson> lucid had 2.6; subprocess.check_output is new in 2.7
[09:13] <cjwatson> infinity: Also, did you intentionally drop the "apt-get clean" from debian/launchpad-buildd.cron.daily?  The commit message didn't mention it.
[09:56] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, I didn't realize check_output was new.  Bother.
[09:57] <infinity> cjwatson: And yes, I dropped the pointless apt-get clean.  lp-buildd has no business dealing with the host's apt.
[09:58] <infinity> cjwatson: Do you have a pre-2.7 recommendation for check_output-like functionality?
[10:02] <infinity> cjwatson: Hrm, os.popen.read, perhaps?
[10:05] <cjwatson> God, no, don't use os.popen.
[10:06] <infinity> cjwatson: *smirk*
[10:06] <cjwatson> subprocess.Popen(stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0] is probably the best answer
[10:06] <infinity> cjwatson: I'm just looking for a quick-n-dirty backtick equivalent, not the most robust and complex subprocess control setup evar.
[10:07] <cjwatson> Though it wouldn't hurt to assign the Popen object to a variable so that you can check .returncode after calling .communicate.
[10:09] <infinity> Python amuses me.  The number of times I hear "oh god, don't use that method", when something shinier comes along, why don't they just rewrite the old to use the new, rather than point and laugh at you for using the wrong thing? :P
[10:09] <cjwatson> So maybe something along the lines of http://paste.ubuntu.com/5928451/, entirely untested.
[10:10] <cjwatson> Well, it's more that os.popen is lower-level.
[10:10] <infinity> That's certainly more unreadable.  Progress. ;)
[10:10] <infinity> cjwatson: I'm struggling to see what's wrong with low-level.  What could be lower-level than forking another process and checking its output?
[10:11] <infinity> Pretty sure that $() isn't all that fancy and high-level.
[10:11] <cjwatson> The above paste really is wrong.  One moment.
[10:11] <infinity> But, meh.
[10:11] <infinity> (I was going to just use os.popen and comment out the "this should actually be this, when we have 2.7+" line)
[10:12] <cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5928455/ - better.
[10:12] <cjwatson> infinity: You're saying this to the guy who got fed up of doing that in C and wrote libpipeline ...
[10:14] <infinity> I wish I hadn't deleted all my hardy chroots.
[10:14] <infinity> But I don't wish that hard enough to recreate them.
[10:14] <cjwatson> I suspect the real reason os.popen is deprecated rather than fixed is a combination of (a) hard to make cross-platform (b) interfaces that take strings as commands rather than lists are fundamentally evil
[10:15] <cjwatson> (Although maybe (a) is wrong since the documentation says it works on Windows.)
[10:15] <infinity> cjwatson: A string is perfectly reasonable if you're passing it to "sh -c", but that returns to the "not cross-platform".
[10:16] <infinity> Maybe there's a cmd.exe -c equivalent (or some functionality provided by rundll or something)
[10:16]  * infinity shrugs.
[10:17] <cjwatson> Interfaces that take strings are the root of many security holes.
[10:17] <infinity> Programmers who don't do input validation are the root of many security holes.
[10:18] <infinity> Anyhow.  Doesn't matter to me either way.  And I'm too sick to have religious debates.
[10:19] <infinity> cjwatson: If that pastebinned diff works as a quick copy-and-paste-and-replace-the-chroot-path-with-a-string snippet, commit away.
[10:20] <infinity> And given the hasty addition of PIPE to your import in the second try, I assume you did actually test it. ;)
[10:22] <infinity> cjwatson: I actually started out with basically that (since Popen was already imported), got lost when various stdout=PIPE examples blew up in my face, and never get to the point of learning until now that PIPE was a thing I needed to import.
[10:22] <infinity> s/get/got/
[10:28] <cjwatson> I usually spell it subprocess.PIPE, which is clearer, but I was going with the prevailing style here.
[10:28] <cjwatson> Committed.
[17:09] <phillw> Hi folks, just a quick note to say that the links at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/254/builds/37582/downloads are reporting 404
[17:09] <cjwatson> That's hardly surprising
[17:10] <cjwatson> We only keep daily builds around for a couple of days
[17:11] <cjwatson> iso.qa.ubuntu.com is not a persistent way to get at images after they've finished their testing cycle
[17:11] <cjwatson> Ubuntu 12.04.2 server amd64 is here: http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04.2/
[17:14] <phillw> cjwatson: thanks colin, I need to re-grab it.


[02:04] <NCommander> hey apachelogger
[02:06] <ScottK> NCommander: I'm sort of back now.
[02:06] <NCommander> Oh good
[02:06] <ScottK> Where are we on stuff ...
[02:06] <NCommander> NEEDSPONSOR
[02:07] <vorian> oh my
[02:08] <ScottK> NCommander: OK.  What first?  python-qt4?
[02:08] <NCommander> Yeah
[02:09] <ScottK> Shoot me a link
[02:09] <NCommander> But they can be uploaded in any order, the dependencies will sort themselves out
[02:09] <ScottK> I feel pythonish at the moment.
[02:09] <ScottK> NCommander: Did you make the launchpad-integration change in kde4libs we discussed earlier?
[02:09] <NCommander> No, I haven't been home
[02:10] <ScottK> OK.  I'll get it.
[02:10] <NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4bindings/+bug/308814
[02:10]  * NCommander hopes to still get the upload credit ;-) *gunshot*
[02:17] <ScottK> Test build started for python-qt4
[02:17] <NCommander> ScottK, it is all test built in my PPA ...
[02:17] <NCommander> But yeah
[02:18] <ScottK> NCommander: How much crap got uploaded as soon as the Alpha freeze got lifted and will it build now?
[02:18] <NCommander> fair enough
[02:19]  * ScottK isn't gonna get caught saying "I didn't test build it because $NOTACOREDEV told me a didn't have to ...
[02:25] <NCommander> fair enough ;-)
[02:31] <jjesse-dell9> evening
[02:42] <rgreening> hey jjesse-dell9
[02:42] <mcasadevall> rgreening, !
[02:43] <rgreening> hey back mcasadevall
[02:43] <mcasadevall> rgreening, feel like hacking :-)
[02:44] <rgreening> heh, almost bedtime for me. The tranqs the doc has me on are real knockouts
[02:44] <rgreening> what time you around tomorrow mcasadevall
[02:45] <ScottK> NCommander: Building kde4libs too.
[02:45] <mcasadevall> right
[02:45] <ScottK> ... on battery.
[02:45] <mcasadevall> you won't be able to build bindings without both of those
[02:45] <mcasadevall> ScottK, er, upload to a PPA?
[02:45] <mcasadevall> Probably faster
[02:45] <ScottK> Trying to see if I can crush the maching.
[02:45] <ScottK> I'm old fashioned.
[02:46] <rgreening> you have fashion?
[02:47] <ScottK> Definitely not.
[02:48] <ScottK> I've been married 8 years and I still have clothes I bought before we got married that I connsider 'relatively new'.
[02:48] <mcasadevall> o_o;
[02:48] <mcasadevall> That and your 10 year old coffee
[02:48] <ScottK> mcasadevall: Tossed them at a PPA too, just for completeness
[02:48] <ScottK> mcasadevall: I'm fairly certain I still own underwear as old as you are.
[02:49] <rgreening> ok, that disturbs me
[02:49]  * mcasadevall has that weird feeling that looking at ScottK, I see my own future
[03:07] <ScottK> rgreening: Any idea how to make libnotify/dbus pop-ups look like Kubuntu and not Ubuntu.
[03:08] <ScottK> The brown one is KDE, the other is QT : http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/notify.png
[03:33] <ryanakca> ScottK: here it's in KDE colors... *grabs a screenshot*
[03:33] <ScottK> ryanakca: Using quassel and dbus?
[03:33] <ryanakca> quassel, no. Just a ``notify-send "testing popus"''
[03:34]  * ScottK tries
[03:35] <ryanakca> ScottK: http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/notify-send1.png
[03:35] <ryanakca> Well, closer to KDE colors than the icky orange
[03:37] <ryanakca> ScottK: You can also change the theme with ``gconftool-2 -t string -s /apps/notification-daemon/theme <theme>''
[03:38] <ScottK> Hmmm
[03:39] <ryanakca> ScottK: gconftool-2 -t string -s /apps/notification-daemon/theme standard    for that theme... according to http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-143061.html , options are standard, bubble and ubuntu. I'm guessing you're using the ubuntu theme
[03:39] <ScottK> Sounds like.
[03:39] <ScottK> It'd be nice for there to be a Kubuntu one in there too.
[03:39] <ryanakca> *nod*
[03:40] <ryanakca> Or we could patch everything to use knotify :P
[03:40] <ryanakca> What source package would have the themes?
[03:40] <ryanakca> s/knotify/whatever KDE uses/g
[03:41] <mcasadevall> ScottK, how goes python-qt4?
[03:42] <ScottK> Good thing I threw it at the PPA.  Hard drive ran out of room.
[03:42] <ScottK> It was going great until then.
[03:43] <ScottK> Python built
[03:44]  * ryanakca => bed
[03:44] <ScottK> mcasadevall: Python-qt4 uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[03:45]  * mcasadevall waves
[03:46]  * mcasadevall pops open his draft emails
[03:52]  * mcasadevall waits for libs
[04:15] <ScottK> NCommander: kde4libs uploaded.  Thank you for your contributionto Kubuntu.
[04:45] <ScottK> rgreening: First less is kvirc-kde4_4.0.0~svn20081215-0ubuntu1, not kvirc-kde4_4.0.0+svn20081215-0ubuntu1.  If there next release is 4.0, then you want a version number less than that.  + makes it higher.
[04:54] <ScottK> rgreening: debian/copyright needs to say the year of the copyrights.
[04:55] <ScottK> Needs a thorough check for the new version.
[04:55] <ScottK> I found one file that was GPL v1 or a later version ...., but upstream seems to be relying on GPLv2.
[04:56] <ScottK> rgreening: debian/changelog should describe the actual changes in the packaging too (but you knew that).
[05:02] <ScottK> rgreening: No need to include postinst/prerm that only contain the debhelper token.  They'll be automagically generated.
[05:02] <ScottK> kvirc-dev-kde4 postinst and prerm can be deleted.
[05:03] <ScottK> rgreening: It looks to me like you've got usr/lib/*.so* in both kvirc-kde4 and the -dev package.
[05:03] <ScottK> Doesn't that make the package conflict?
[05:04]  * ScottK notes it's late and he's tired, so no guarantees these comments are correct.
[05:05] <ScottK> rgreening: Don't over-ride kvirc: binary-without-manpage kvirc.  It's a PITA, but it's a valid warning.
[05:06]  * ScottK thinks kvirc: menu-icon-missing /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/kvirc.xpm
[05:07] <ScottK> ... is not such a great over-ride either.
[05:07] <ScottK> that's where you tell it to look for it in your menu file.
[05:08] <ScottK> rgreening: In kvirc-kde4.postrm, don't you want ldconfig on purge too?
[05:26] <NCommander> hey ScottK
[05:33] <ScottK> Hey
[05:33] <ScottK> NCommander: ....
[05:34] <NCommander> what did I do?
[05:34]  * NCommander hasn't broken the archive. Yet.
[05:34] <ScottK> You said hey.  I said hey back.
[05:35] <NCommander> But then you ...'ed me!
[05:35] <ScottK> Oh.  I guess I should have ^^^ you.
[05:36] <NCommander> I'll see your ^^^ and raise you a O_O;
[05:39] <ScottK> NCommander: kde4bindings uploaded.   Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[05:41] <NCommander> lol
[05:42] <ScottK> NCommander: I'm going to want to backport mlt soon I think.  Any chance you could look into it's FTBFS problems on ports soonish?
[05:43] <NCommander> ScottK, WTF is mlt?
[05:44] <ScottK> Multimedia some thing.
[05:44] <ScottK> Needed for Kdenlive.
[05:44] <ScottK> Which now has a KDE4 version that people are clamoring for.
[05:46] <NCommander> That build failure log looks miserable
[05:50] <NCommander> ScottK, I can guess what's going on
[05:50] <ScottK> Please.
[05:50] <ScottK> NCommander: It's in Universe, so you can fix it right up ...
[05:51] <NCommander> I said I know whats going on, I have no idea if I can fix it ;-)
[05:58] <ScottK> I have a great deal of confidence in you.
[06:02] <ScottK> rgreening: As predicted trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libkvilib4.so', which is also in package kvirc-dev-kde4
[06:02] <ScottK> It built though ...
[06:04] <ScottK> rgreening: Does it really need KDE4.2 or can the depends be relaxed and have it work with KDE 4.1 too?
[06:04] <ScottK> That's my comments ...
[06:07] <ScottK> apachelogger: When smarter appears, would you please point him at "[01:05:49] <slangasek> ScottK: kde4-style-bespin accepted; kwin4-style-bespin has a malformatted long desc, wanna fix?
[06:07] <ScottK> Or anyone else for that matter.
[06:09] <ScottK> didrocks and JontheEchidna: kdenlive uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[06:10] <ScottK> Now I'm going to bed.
[06:10] <ScottK> Good night all.
[06:13] <ScottK> Oh, one more thing ...
[07:19] <nixternal> wasabi robotgeek!
[07:19]  * nixternal goes and gets a dr. pepper
[07:20] <robotgeek> howdy nixternal
[07:22] <nixternal> how have you been?
[07:22] <nixternal> haven't talked to you in a while
[07:22] <robotgeek> nixternal: pretty good. just busy with work and life.
[07:23] <nixternal> ya, pretty much the same here
[07:23] <robotgeek> submitting small patches to things i use (rockbox: rejected, working on new and sloccount) are a few recent ones
[07:23] <robotgeek> have not even upgraded to kde 4 :)
[07:23] <nixternal> ouch
[07:23] <nixternal> gotta love that rockbox :)
[07:24] <nixternal> you can at least use the amarok/kde4 theme for it if you have a sansa e260 :)
[07:24] <nixternal> that's what I use now
[07:24] <robotgeek> i actually use it :)
[07:24] <nixternal> nice
[07:24] <nixternal> you have a sansa or did the dev port it to other devices as well?
[07:25] <robotgeek> the cover thing works, the cover plugin for amarok also works, which is neat. so i get album covers in rock box
[07:25] <robotgeek> i have the same sansa. wooted it
[07:25] <nixternal> ahh, I need to get that cover plugin
[07:25] <nixternal> I forgot to install it last time I updated
[07:25] <robotgeek> also joined the local makers
[07:27] <robotgeek> keeps me busy. also 8 hours of writing code at work usually saps out motivation to sit in front of the computer and do stuff :)
[07:27] <nixternal> oh man, I can totally relate there
[07:28] <nixternal> though I got the boost I needed from UDS last week
[07:28] <robotgeek> excellent. did you have a good time?
[07:28] <nixternal> a very good time
[07:29] <nixternal> a lot of community, motu/core-dev, and kubuntu stuff that week
[07:29] <nixternal> as well as the google burritos that rocked!
[07:29] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[07:29] <Hobbsee> a lot of the google stuff rocked
[07:29] <nixternal> especially those burritos!
[07:29] <nixternal> and the lil doggies
[07:30] <robotgeek> great!
[07:31] <robotgeek> i have not done any work with kubuntu in a year and a half. i think about leaving the teams, but i am hoping i will get off my butt and do something :)
[07:31] <nixternal> hehe
[07:34] <robotgeek> i should probably document the setup i have with mythtv + nvidia + dual screen + remote. it worked out pretty nicely. was nasty to configure.
[07:36] <robotgeek> nixternal: time for me to go away to bed. long day :). i'll catch up with you some other time
[07:36] <robotgeek> have a merry christmas, and a happy new year!
[07:37]  * robotgeek forgets this was -devel (sorry!)
[07:37] <nixternal> g'nite
[07:37] <nixternal> no problem, we need to break the ice in here every now and then
[07:38]  * Hobbsee grabs an axe
[08:21]  * NCommander throws Hobbsee through the ice
[09:35] <apachelogger> ryanakca, ScottK: I don't think patching quassel to use knotify/visualnoticiations.kde.org isn't too much work
[09:36] <apachelogger> IIRC the visualnotify stuff is mostly compatible with libnotify, so one just would need to change some things and it should work
[09:36]  * apachelogger goes shopping
[09:40] <didrocks> ScottK: thx :)
[11:11] <apachelogger> http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-promo&m=122976021804479&w=2
[11:11] <apachelogger> :D
[11:12] <NCommander> flamewar in 3 ... 2 ... 1...
[11:13] <apachelogger> answer: because GTK is hell old and not even used by GNOME :P
[11:13] <apachelogger> GTK+ ftw
[11:13] <apachelogger> then again GTK+ was not really an option for KDE Uno...
[11:13] <apachelogger> anyways, I am AFK for cooking
[11:13] <NCommander> GTK was written for GIMP, and that was because Qt was non-free at the time, right?
[11:26] <apachelogger> ~wp gimp
[11:26] <kubotu> Results for gimp: 1. GIMP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP | 2. Gimp (band): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimp_(band) | 3. GIMP - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP
[11:26] <kubotu> [1] GIMP 2.6.0 running on KDE.
[11:26] <apachelogger> uhh that is a kubuntu snapshot, I tell you
[11:28] <apachelogger> NCommander: the question is did they even know about it
[11:29] <NCommander> apachelogger, I think the big reason GIMP wrote their own toolset is that until only a few years ago, Qt was non-free. That's what actually caused GNOME's existance
[11:30] <apachelogger> NCommander: few years?
[11:30] <apachelogger> >10 years IIRC
[11:30]  * NCommander runs to wikipedia
[11:30] <NCommander> Qt was always "free" as in beer
[11:31] <NCommander> But it was under the Q public license
[11:31] <NCommander> it was only relicensed under the GPL about five years ago or so
[11:32] <apachelogger> With the release of version 2.0 of the toolkit, the license was changed to the Q Public License (QPL), a free software license but one regarded by the Free Software Foundation as incompatible with the GPL.
[11:32] <NCommander> oh, my mistake
[11:32] <NCommander> sorry my memory gone a little fuzzy over the years
[11:32] <apachelogger> see, were enough years to cloud your memory :P
[11:33] <NCommander> I thought QPL wasn't a free license
[11:33] <apachelogger> that would make the public kinda pointless though
[11:33] <apachelogger> wikipedia--
[11:33] <apachelogger> the page on qt is a pita
[11:33]  * NCommander points apachelogger to the edit button
[11:34]  * Hobbsee edits NCommander
[11:34] <NCommander> BTW, apachelogger, please retry kde4bindings on ia64 for me
[11:34]  * NCommander deletes Hobbsee
[11:34]  * Hobbsee also pokes him in the ribs, and watches him fall off his chair
[11:34] <apachelogger> I wouldn't be reading that page if I knew precisely when qt become dual licensed :P
[11:34] <Hobbsee> no, you can't delete any objects unless they're spawned from you, while you're editing yourself...
[11:36] <apachelogger> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:36] <apachelogger>   libplasma-dev: Depends: libplasma3 (= 4:4.1.85-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[11:36] <apachelogger> E: Broken packages
[11:36] <apachelogger> NCommander: wouldn't that only happen if something declares an unversioned dep on libplasma-dev?
[11:37]  * NCommander didn't touch that deps line
[11:37] <NCommander> Oh
[11:37] <NCommander> d'oh
[11:37] <NCommander> kde4bindings has an explicate build-dep on 4.1.85-0ubuntu2 or greater
[11:37] <apachelogger> very weird
[11:37] <NCommander> No, that was intentional :-)
[11:38]  * apachelogger always thought the debs get populated all at once
[11:38] <NCommander> it also has one on python-qt4
[11:38] <apachelogger> NCommander: I mean that the build failed
[11:38] <apachelogger> "This all became a moot point with the release of Qt 2.2. This and later versions of the free Qt are covered under a "dual" license."
[11:38]  * NCommander shrugs
[11:38] <apachelogger> now I just gotta find out when 2.2 got released
[11:38] <apachelogger> NCommander: retried
[11:39] <NCommander> Thanks
[11:39] <apachelogger> ah
[11:39] <apachelogger> german++
[11:39] <apachelogger> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_(Bibliothek)
[11:39] <NCommander> I don't read german
[11:39] <apachelogger> compare that page to the english one
[11:39] <apachelogger> a shame!
[11:39] <NCommander> sorry
[11:39] <apachelogger> NCommander: google can translate
[11:39] <NCommander> :-P
[11:39] <apachelogger> 7. Dezember 2000  2.2
[11:40] <apachelogger> "Controversy erupted around 1998 when it became clear that KDE was going to become one of the leading desktop environments for Linux."
[11:40] <apachelogger> so it took TT 2 years to resolve that issue, I consider this fast movement for a company ^_^
[11:44] <apachelogger> uhhh
[11:44] <apachelogger> memo++
[11:44] <apachelogger> smarter: read your memos :P
[11:45] <smarter> hmm
[11:46] <smarter> yup, the desc exceeds 80 chars, didn't thought it would be such a problem for an alpha :P
[11:46]  * smarter will fix that
[11:53] <f4l3_> I have seen the thing about konversation for jaunty
[11:54] <f4l3_> is not possible put a 'temporary' different client for IRC, based on kde4/qt4?
[11:55] <apachelogger> Nightrose: checkOut() started with component: kdeedu
[11:55] <apachelogger> f4l3_: sure, if there was a usable one :P
[11:57] <f4l3_> apachelogger: If I'm able to find one?
[12:01] <f4l3_> I mean, we are still in time to make changes like this?
[12:07] <f4l3_> apachelogger: btw, probably konversation will not be ready even for 9.10
[12:14] <|newbie|> ok
[12:14] <|newbie|> apachelogger: I think I found one :)
[12:15] <|newbie|> and it seems way better than konversation
[12:17] <apachelogger> which one?
[12:17] <|newbie|> apachelogger: KVIrc
[12:18] <apachelogger> we agreed that it looks like ...
[12:19] <Fale_> apachelogger: what do you mean?
[12:19] <apachelogger> Fale_: it's not exaclty looking sexy
[12:19] <Fale_> apachelogger: maybe a little bit of skinning?
[12:20] <Fale_> apachelogger: I mean, to me, it seems like we have three options
[12:20] <Fale_> - ship it w/out an IRC
[12:20] <Fale_> - ship it with konversation and with all the qt3
[12:20] <Fale_> - ship it with a different client
[12:20] <smarter> Fale_: we're investigating shipping Quassel
[12:21] <apachelogger> we have a lot more options really :P
[12:21] <apachelogger> 1) no IRC client
[12:21] <Fale_> smarter: I have tried it... it use a lot of RAM and CPU
[12:21] <apachelogger> 2) no IRC client but write a tiny app to download&&install&&start konvi and all the qt3 bloat
[12:21] <apachelogger> ship with kvirc
[12:21] <apachelogger> with kvirc-kde4
[12:21] <apachelogger> or with quassel
[12:21] <apachelogger> or with xchat
[12:22] <Fale_> apachelogger: my third covers all these...
[12:22] <apachelogger> though I doubt the latter would save much space even though we have a core gtk anyway
[12:22] <Fale_> apachelogger: why we have core gtk?
[12:22] <apachelogger> gtk-qt-engine
[12:23] <apachelogger> and OOo as well
[12:23] <Fale_> oh, ok, I thought it wasn't by default on the cd
[12:23] <Fale_> apachelogger: OOo is based on gtk?
[12:23] <Fale_> I thought it was only C++ the backend
[12:24] <apachelogger> no, it just happens to use it on linux
[12:25] <Fale_> apachelogger: btw the 'pure' theme for KVIrc is close to be acceptable, imho
[12:27] <Fale_> oh, I see
[12:28] <Fale_> apachelogger: but even OOo-kde is written in gtk?
[12:32] <f4l3_> bye
[12:33] <NCommander> wooo
[12:33] <NCommander> kde4libs built on arm
[12:33] <NCommander> go bindings go!
[12:33] <NCommander> apachelogger, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4bindings/4:4.1.85-0ubuntu2/+build/817865 - push retry please
[12:34] <NCommander> (so it will get pushed quickly into the build queue)
[12:43] <apachelogger> Fale_: ooo-kde is AFAIK just like gtk-qt-engine and uses different dialogs
[12:44] <NCommander> apachelogger, please retry :-)
[12:44] <apachelogger> NCommander: already did :P
[12:44] <NCommander> woo
[12:47] <milian> hi there
[12:47] <milian> which package do I need to install to get debug symbols for kate/kwrite etc. in KDE 4.2 beta 2 ?
[12:47] <milian> I installed kdebase-dev and kdelibs-dev
[12:47] <milian> but cannot find kwrite / kate-dev
[12:50] <apachelogger> milian: kdebase-workspace-dbg and kdesdk-dbg
[12:50] <apachelogger> -dev doesn't really have anything to do with debugging :P
[13:17] <f4l3_> apachelogger: that's not very cool (about the OOo-kde)
[13:19] <f4l3_> apachelogger: is there a statistic of the space usage of the disk?
[13:22] <apachelogger> f4l3_: no, feel free to make one ;-)
[13:22] <apachelogger> but OOo probably eats most
[13:23] <f4l3_> apachelogger: mmm use koffice instead of OOo?
[13:23] <apachelogger> doesn't messure up right now
[13:23] <f4l3_> apachelogger: and about the OOo's gui... I will think about that one day... but not today xD
[13:24] <f4l3_> messure = ?
[13:24] <apachelogger> s/messure/measure
[13:24]  * apachelogger is making up new words today :D
[13:25] <apachelogger> kde-nightly-kdeedu available to the public
[13:25] <f4l3_> apachelogger: I think I haven't got your phrase...
[13:26] <apachelogger> f4l3_: koffice doesn't have as many features as OOo and thus doesn't cover most use cases + it is a lot less table right now
[13:26] <apachelogger> *stable even
[13:28] <f4l3_> apachelogger: ok, I  got it
[14:03] <runpain2> I have Kubuntu 8.04 and have up graded 2.6.24 23 kernel i use gdesklets how can i use the desklets and not have the shell window popup when i boot up i want the desklets clock and quote of the day to load as i get to desktop
[14:11] <apachelogger> runpain2: #kubuntu for support please
[14:23] <milian> thanks apachelogger
[14:27] <devfil2> ScottK: any news about digikam-kde4?
[14:32] <stdin> apachelogger: anyone can suggest a factoid change you know ;)
[14:32] <apachelogger> stdin: there is no handbook, so I don't know :P
[14:32] <stdin> !bot
[14:32] <stdin> see the Usage info
[14:33] <stdin> you just do "!factoid is something" or "!factoid is <reply> something else"
[14:39] <stdin> !offtopic-#kubuntu-offtopic is <reply> #kubuntu-offtopic is the development channel for Kubuntu, please use #kubuntu for support questions and #kubuntu-offtopic for general chatter. Thanks
[14:39] <stdin> really?
[14:39] <stdin> ah, yes. dumb me
[14:39] <stdin> !offtopic-#kubuntu-devel is <reply> #kubuntu-offtopic is the development channel for Kubuntu, please use #kubuntu for support questions and #kubuntu-offtopic for general chatter. Thanks
[14:40] <jussi01> hehe
[14:40] <jussi01> stdin: I trust youll fix that?
[14:40] <stdin> yes :)
[14:40] <stdin> in /msg though
[14:40] <jussi01> hehe
[15:13] <ScottK> apachelogger: The issue you run into with stuff like the kde4bindings that you retried last night is that the -dev package is arch all while the main package arch any and so the newer -dev is there before the main package on a slow arch.  That makes the -dev uninstallable.  If a build-dep is uninstallable, as opposed to mearly not present, sbuild will fail the build.
[15:13] <ScottK> Oddly though if it's already depwait, and the -dev is uninstallable, it just leaves it depwait.
[15:13] <ScottK> There are bugs filed on this.
[15:13] <ScottK> Thanks for doing the retries.
[15:41] <lool> Folks, koffice failed to build due to patches not applying; is anybody looking into this already?
[15:43] <lool> bbiab
[16:05] <jjesse-dell9> morning
[17:09] <ScottK-palm> Hobbsee: Would you please rescore the armel build of kde4bindings?
[17:10]  * ScottK-palm will be back later.
[17:41] <lool> Hmm Debian has a newer koffice in experimental, 1.9.98
[17:45] <lool> Was koffice imported in a bzr branch?
[17:52] <lool> Would someone be so kind to check http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/koffice_1.6.3-7ubuntu2.debdiff and either commit it or ack it?
[18:19]  * ScottK looks at Riddell ^^^
[18:19] <ScottK> Perhaps hell grace us with a visit.
[18:19] <ScottK> hell/he'll
[18:23] <lool> Heh it's almost xmas
[18:27] <seele> he's probably on holiday from his holiday.
[18:27] <ScottK> Probably.
[18:31] <nixternal> he is probably heading back home actually, as he stayed in sunnyvale for another week to travel via his brompton
[20:09] <Nightrose> apachelogger: yay @ edu  *hug*
[20:11] <jjesse> isn't there a package that provides extra plasmoids, kde-extras or something like that/
[20:21] <smarter> jjesse-dell9: kdeplasma-addons
[20:31] <lool> ScottK: Do you know whether koffice is kept in bzr?  If not would it be reasonnable to push this relatively small delta?
[20:32] <lool> I tried looking for it, but only found an old import from 1998
[22:31] <Hobbsee> ScottK: rescored
[22:38] <ScottK> lool: I don't know.  I think Riddell has been mostly doing that himself, but I'm not sure.
[22:38] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
[22:41] <ScottK> rgreening: Did you see my comments on kvirc-kde4?
[22:54] <jjesse> hrmm anyone able to get the lcd weather plasmoid to work?  for me it doesn't show any data sources to find cities
[23:02] <ScottK> Would someone who  is running Jaunty, please install kdenlive and see if it works without ffmpeg installed?
[23:02] <ScottK> There are some conflicting reports about if it's needed for more than firewire capture.
[23:05] <Riddell> evening
[23:05] <ScottK> Good evening.
[23:06] <ScottK> I think the only pressing issue for you is lool's question about koffice.
[23:07] <Riddell> lool's patch looks fine
[23:07] <Riddell> there's no bzr for koffice (that I know of)
[23:14]  * ScottK looks at lool's patch.
[23:17] <nixternal> Riddell: you back home yet?
[23:35] <ScottK> Riddell and lool: I'm test building the koffice update now and will upload it once it finished.
[23:54] <Riddell> nixternal: yes, nice to have real internet again
[23:56] <nixternal> hehe, I hear you there
[23:56] <nixternal> I am at a LUG meeting now, but we are hacking on some google api stuff right now...pretty boring actually
[23:56] <nixternal> but we have lots of beer and we are looking at ordering pizza
[23:59] <DaSkreech> Does anyonehave working plasma shortcuts?


[12:37] <CIA-6> console-setup: cjwatson * r377 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog keyboard-configuration.config):
[12:37] <CIA-6> console-setup: Drop misguided Ubuntu-specific code to migrate from console-setup/* to
[12:37] <CIA-6> console-setup: keyboard-configuration/* question names. This is already handled on
[12:37] <CIA-6> console-setup: upgrade by reading the old /etc/default/console-setup file
[12:37] <CIA-6> console-setup: (LP: #698263).
[14:10] <CIA-6> clock-setup: cjwatson * r223 ubuntu/ (6 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 0.106
[14:10] <ev> (forgot to commit the --release in console-setup, fixing now)
[14:10] <cjwatson> ah
[14:11] <CIA-6> clock-setup: cjwatson * r224 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.106ubuntu1
[14:12] <CIA-6> console-setup: evand * r378 ubuntu/debian/changelog: Fix changelog. I forgot to commit the --release of 1.57ubuntu4).
[14:14] <cjwatson> normally I deal with that by committing on a branch and then merging, because that means it's possible to tag something accurately
[14:14] <ev> ah, noted for the future
[14:24] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r906 ubuntu/debian/ (12 files in 2 dirs): merge from partman-basicfilesystems 69
[14:25] <CIA-6> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r907 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 69ubuntu1
[14:28] <CIA-6> lilo-installer: cjwatson * r740 ubuntu/debian/ (po/lo.po po/si.po changelog po/sl.po po/te.po): merge from Debian 1.34
[14:29] <CIA-6> usb-creator: evand * r330 usb-creator/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[14:29] <CIA-6> usb-creator: Hide partition table block devices by default. To revert to the
[14:29] <CIA-6> usb-creator: previous behavior, pass --show-all to usb-creator-gtk.
[14:32] <CIA-6> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r902 ubuntu/debian/ (8 files in 2 dirs): merge from Debian 1.38
[14:36] <CIA-6> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r903 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.38ubuntu1
[14:39] <CIA-6> lilo-installer: cjwatson * r741 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.34ubuntu1
[14:41] <CIA-6> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r709 ubuntu/debian/ (7 files in 2 dirs): merge from Debian 46
[14:42] <CIA-6> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r710 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 46ubuntu1
[14:47] <CIA-6> partman-efi: cjwatson * r657 ubuntu/debian/ (po/lo.po po/si.po changelog po/de.po): merge from Debian 23
[14:48] <CIA-6> partman-efi: cjwatson * r658 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 23ubuntu1
[17:35] <CIA-6> installation-guide: cjwatson * r487 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/hardware/supported/i386.xml):
[17:35] <CIA-6> installation-guide: Apply Ubuntu branding to i386 "CPU, Main Boards, and Video Support"
[17:35] <CIA-6> installation-guide: section; there's one remaining instance of "Debian", but it makes sense
[17:35] <CIA-6> installation-guide: in context (LP: #689153).
[17:38] <CIA-6> installation-guide: cjwatson * r488 ubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[17:38] <CIA-6> installation-guide: Apply Ubuntu branding to "Braille Displays", "Hardware Speech
[17:38] <CIA-6> installation-guide: Synthesis", and powerpc "CPU, Main Boards, and Video Support" sections
[17:38] <CIA-6> installation-guide: (thanks, Mahyuddin Susanto; LP: #689157).
[17:50] <CIA-6> installation-guide: cjwatson * r489 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20100518ubuntu3
[17:54] <cr3> how can I use germinate to determine what packages are installed in the live cd and what packages are installed by the server cd?
[17:55] <cr3> ... assuming germinate is the right tool for that job, I may be completely off :)
[18:09] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.natty/ - look at the structure file which shows inheritance, everything up to desktop is installed by the live CD into the target system, everything up to live is installed in the running live session, the server CD installs everything up to server plus whatever you select in the tasksel dialog.  then look at the individual files listed by structure
[19:37] <bladernr> can anyone here tell me if the installation installs pm-utils on everything, or only on certain system types?
[19:38] <cjwatson> it's in the ubuntu-desktop task, so it will be installed on all desktop systems
[19:39] <bladernr> cjwatson:  thanks!
[19:39] <cjwatson> quite a few other tasks tooo
[19:39] <cjwatson> Task: ubuntu-desktop, eucalyptus-node, ubuntu-uec-live, kubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-mobile, kubuntu-netbook, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-uec-live, xubuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-backend-master, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-frontend, ubuntu-netbook
[19:39] <cjwatson> (I'm happy to defend this on the grounds that power management is increasingly important across the board)
[19:40] <bladernr> cjwatson:  no argument from me, I'm working on some checkbox stuff and trying to determine if we need to ensure pm-utils is installed so that the code will work across systems. and it seems so if it's not part of the server install.
[19:41] <cjwatson> even if it were, if you're using any non-Essential package directly, you really ought to depend on it - installation profiles can change over time and it's a pain to have to chase down undeclared dependencies
[23:50] <CIA-4> ubiquity: evand * r4490 trunk/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/plugins/ubi-usersetup.py): Detect hostname collisions (LP: #634187).


[00:00] <atomic007za> or how would set SDL_audiodriver=esd automacically when tuxtyping starts
 or how could I just disable sound on tuxtyping for all uses as it starts?
 I have not seen a conf file for this
 SDL soung seems to be causing a problem when more than 2 clients log in
 anyone?
[03:06] <LaserJock> ace_suares: around?
[04:19] <ace_suares> LaserJock now
[04:20] <ace_suares> ah u left
[04:58] <sbalneav> Evening all
[13:34] <ace_suares> morning
[13:43] <ace_suares> ping LaserJock
[13:45] <ace_suares> ogra why are there so many unapproved members on edubuntu team ?
[13:47] <sbalneav> Because they applied for membership, but then never did anything tangible to help out.
[13:49] <sbalneav> Membership gives you things like voting rights on decisions, etc.
[13:49] <sbalneav> But it's a meritocracy, so you have to "put in a little work" before you get it.
[14:14] <ace_suares> oh so its probably a bunch of people they click 'join' cause it's so easy and then forget about it.
[14:15] <ace_suares> and when will i become a member? Not that I want to :-) but i have to to get some work done, apparently. I am website member already, that was easy
[14:23] <sbalneav> Well, when you apply, we can vote on it.
[15:43] <ace_suares> I apllied two days agio
[15:55] <ace_suares> sbalneav: u there
[15:55] <ace_suares> LaserJock ping
[16:07] <mhall119> I applied before I realized there were requirements on membership
[16:09] <ace_suares> mhall119 would you like to contribute to the website and/or wiki ?
[16:09] <mhall119> my wife is already contributing for the wiki
[16:09] <ace_suares> oh okay
[16:09] <ace_suares> whats her handle
[16:09] <mhall119> I'm going to be contributing to Edubuntu itself, eventually
[16:10] <mhall119> Michelle_Qimo
[16:10] <ace_suares> mhall119 the wiki is part of Edubuntu :-)
[16:10] <mhall119> ace_suares: the project, yes, I was talking about the actual distro
[16:11] <mhall119> going to try and incorporate some of Qimo into Edubuntu
[16:11] <ace_suares> mhall119 the docs go into the distro too :-)))
[16:11] <mhall119> I know that's the plan, are they in there already?
[16:11] <ace_suares> i checked out qimo but I don't know what to think of it
[16:11] <mhall119> ace_suares: you're older than our target demographic
[16:11] <mhall119> :)
[16:11] <ace_suares> what i got was a normal desktop screen (well not gnome obviously) and I wouldnt be able to put a kid behind that thing
[16:12] <mhall119> ah, you didn't read the FAQ then
[16:12] <ace_suares> for instance, on the desktop, there is no icons that lead driectly to things for kids
[16:12] <ace_suares> okay
[16:12] <ace_suares> why shoud i read a faq ?
[16:12] <mhall119> you shouldn't select "Automatically log in to this account" when installing
[16:12] <ace_suares> i put in the cd and then that's all i do right?/
[16:12] <ace_suares> mhall119 blast
[16:12] <ace_suares> that featurre was so handy
[16:12] <mhall119> the account you setup when installing is for a parent
[16:12] <ace_suares> that shouldnt be in the faq but in the installation instructions
[16:13] <mhall119> the Qimo account is already setup, and configured to automatically log in
[16:13] <ace_suares> and btw can't you diasble that with preseed or something??
[16:13] <mhall119> ace_suares: I'm planning on modifying Ubiquity to make that more clear in the next version
[16:13] <ace_suares> would be nice, you almost lost me on Qimo just because of that!
[16:13] <mhall119> you're not the only one
[16:14] <mhall119> Qimo is still on v1.0, and we kind of rushed that out
[16:14] <ace_suares> mhall119 users are badly understood
[16:14] <mhall119> I didn't even know python at that point, so modifying Ubiquity was out of scope
[16:14] <mhall119> ace_suares: I understand the problem, just didn't have the time and knowledge to do anything about it at the time
[16:14] <ace_suares> okay okay you are forgiven ;-)
[16:15] <ace_suares> I will  reinstall or is there a smarter way? Just disable autologin in the login manager?
[16:16] <mhall119> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/qimo/+spec/ubiquity-modification
[16:16] <mhall119> You can probably just go to the Login Window settings and change the autologin back to Qimo
[16:16] <ace_suares> oh i will try
[16:31] <ace_suares> mhall119 still there?
[16:31] <mhall119> yup
[16:31] <ace_suares> you know what drives me crazy?
[16:32] <mhall119> the state of the Edubuntu wiki?
[16:32] <ace_suares> l'linux' is all so good on old compiuters... qimo claims that too
[16:32] <mhall119> a claim I can back up with facts
[16:32] <ace_suares> but my screen is to small and the login manager windows doesnt fit in the screen and there is NO way to get to the 'OK' button. It's off screen even if i removed the two panels
[16:32] <ace_suares> so how good is it then :-(
[16:32] <mhall119> yeah, there are several dialogs with that problem
[16:33] <ace_suares> okay i can do CLI but ...
[16:33] <mhall119> no, there's an easier way
[16:33] <ace_suares> mhall119 why can't one resize the dialogs ? afwul
[16:33] <mhall119> hit Alt+F7
[16:33] <ace_suares> alt-f7 ?
[16:33] <ace_suares> and then
[16:33] <mhall119> you can move the dialog window past the screen edge
[16:33] <ace_suares> ah
[16:33] <ace_suares> okay
[16:33] <mhall119> the Evolution and Thunderbird account dialogs are some of the worst at that
[16:33] <ace_suares> yah i remmber that now biut still it's very bad UI design
[16:34] <mhall119> I agree, especially with netbooks becoming so wide spread, a lot of these need to be reconsidered
[16:34] <mhall119> there's probably bug reports about it already
[16:35] <ace_suares> its not ALT+F7 , that maximize/restore
[16:35] <ace_suares> it;s ALT+_drag mouse
[16:35] <ace_suares> but thx anyway!
[16:37] <ace_suares> ahhh that's much nicer!
[16:37] <ace_suares> that's the way kids can work with it
[16:38] <ace_suares> a pity that when you move the mouse over the icons, there is no text explaining what the icon does
[16:38] <ace_suares> i got a vague blue icon
[16:38] <ace_suares> truns out to be tux4kids
[16:38] <ace_suares> but in generals you are on the good way
[16:38] <ace_suares> this is mor eof an interface for kids
[16:47] <mhall119> there should be a tooltip on mouse over
[16:48] <mhall119> the TuxType icon, the vague blue one, I don't like either
[16:50] <ace_suares> there wasnt a tooltip. I installed in dutch by the way
[17:00] <ace_suares> wiki is sooooooo slooooooowwwww
[18:52] <mhall119> ace_suares: you around?
[18:52] <mhall119> was reading https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSiteFeatures
[18:53] <mhall119> and for LaunchPad Auth Integration, if you're going to use Drupal it can be OpenID
[18:53] <mhall119> just a thought
[19:23] <LaserJock> hello Edubuntu land
[19:23]  * LaserJock is trying to get through all of ace_suares's emails
[19:26] <LaserJock> ace_suares: you around? we should discuss this Download page
[19:59] <LaserJock> ace_suares: ping
[19:59] <ace_suares> hey man
[20:00] <LaserJock> ace_suares: we need to discuss this Download wiki page
[20:00] <ace_suares>  please do
[20:01] <LaserJock> ace_suares: I don't think it's really a good idea to have a Download page on the wiki as it's a duplication
[20:01] <LaserJock> and the wiki is not meant for end users
[20:01] <LaserJock> I think it might cause confusion
[20:01] <ace_suares> I can relate to that. But did you red my msg to uwe ?
[20:02] <LaserJock> yes
[20:02] <LaserJock> but we already have a Download page on edubuntu.org
[20:02] <ace_suares> so how is it that it is not confusing now?
[20:02] <LaserJock> that should be *the* download page
[20:03] <ace_suares> if you read my msg you'd know thta that page is very confusing
[20:03] <LaserJock> so other pages should link to it
[20:03] <ace_suares> dont you agree?
[20:03] <LaserJock> sure
[20:03] <LaserJock> that's why we fix the page
[20:03] <LaserJock> not make another page that tries to explain the confusing page :-)
[20:03] <ace_suares> okay so we need to addres show to make THTA page more logical. But back to your 'suggestion'
[20:03] <ace_suares> he he
[20:03] <ace_suares> so if people are on the wiki home page
[20:03] <ace_suares> and then click download
[20:04] <LaserJock> I've been working off-and-on with the Ubuntu webmaster to get a download page that looks like Ubuntu's
[20:04] <ace_suares> they get thrown in an entirely different area, page laypout and such
[20:04] <ace_suares> do you think that is acceptable ??
[20:04] <LaserJock> yes
[20:04] <ace_suares> okay
[20:04] <ace_suares> why ?
[20:04] <LaserJock> if they land on wiki.edubuntu.org they are in the wrong place
[20:04] <LaserJock> they should get linked to www.edubuntu.org
[20:05] <LaserJock> it is helpful if it's visually a bit different to distinguish the two places
[20:05] <ace_suares> did you *try* to click on the link in the wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu ?
[20:05] <ace_suares> how does that feel to the new user that never been on edubuntu ?
[20:06] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[20:06] <ace_suares> do you think the new user has any idea that there are two different sites? And what they entail ?
[20:06] <LaserJock> if a person lands on wiki.edubuntu.org the goal is to get them off as soon as possible
[20:06] <LaserJock> the two sites are completely different technologies
[20:06] <ace_suares> well okay but how to get them off? just link them to a totally different site without explanation ?
[20:07] <LaserJock> yes
[20:07] <ace_suares> okay lets vote on that in the nex tmeeting then. Could you send a mail to the list pointing out your viewpoint?
[20:07] <LaserJock> we don't need a vote
[20:07] <LaserJock> we just don't need multiple download pages
[20:08] <LaserJock> we need to make *the* download page better so it's not confusing
[20:08] <LaserJock> and get people off of wiki.edubuntu.org as soon as possible
[20:09] <ace_suares> swell.
[20:09] <ace_suares> let me ask you one thing
[20:09] <ace_suares> what do you expect of me?
[20:09] <LaserJock> you're doing great work
[20:09] <LaserJock> you've been going through stuff
[20:09] <ace_suares> yeah and then you come and pick on a random item in my proposal
[20:10] <ace_suares> what i need is a general idea
[20:10] <ace_suares> a guidance
[20:10] <ace_suares> a goal
[20:10] <mhall119> I'd like to second that you're doing great work, ace_suares
[20:10] <ace_suares> not picking apart my proposal while I am making it
[20:10] <LaserJock> ok, well
[20:10] <ace_suares> i am working my butt of here with the risk of totally being bruned down by everone who wants something else then i propose
[20:11] <ace_suares> i say, either explain me exactly what to do so i can help
[20:11] <LaserJock> I'm trying to offer guidance here
[20:11] <ace_suares> or let me do my thing, commenting on it is quite okay, and then change whateve rneed to be changed when the proposal has its fdorm
[20:11] <LaserJock> one minor issue with your proposal
[20:11] <ace_suares> what do you think?  Sincerely. But how can you or anyone avoid that when there is no clear goal where to work too?
[20:12] <LaserJock> well
[20:13] <LaserJock> we already had the goal of moving all the user documentation to help.ubuntu.com/community
[20:13] <ace_suares> I am just making things up along the way so to come to a proposal that can then be altered. It's very easy to change the downlaod page
[20:13] <LaserJock> well, it is and it isn't
[20:13] <ace_suares> LaserJock: yeah that's true and I asked for a list, but there is no list
[20:13] <LaserJock> modification of an existing page isn't much of a problem
[20:13] <ace_suares> There is lots of other stuff though
[20:13] <LaserJock> but creating new pages can be a bit tougher
[20:13] <ace_suares> specs, wikiplans, the lot
[20:13] <LaserJock> yep
[20:14] <ace_suares> I think I got the moin moin pretty much under control. Some things can't be done nicely though.
[20:14] <LaserJock> so, I'm just saying don't bother with a download page
[20:14] <ace_suares> that's okay LJ
[20:14] <ace_suares> I know what you want to say with it.
[20:14] <ace_suares> i don't agree tough, but that's a differnet thing
[20:15] <ace_suares> btw how does this democrazy work
[20:15] <ace_suares> you tell me what you think is right and then i do it ?
[20:15] <mhall119> it's not really a democracy
[20:15] <ace_suares> I have seriously no clue
[20:15] <LaserJock> it's more meritocracy
[20:15] <ace_suares> he he i like that
[20:15] <LaserJock> people who have been in the team a long time and have done the work have the most say
[20:15] <ace_suares> meritocrazy includes that first you need to be able to do something
[20:15] <LaserJock> sometimes there's a single leader
[20:15] <mhall119> or an ad-hocracy if you read Doctorow
[20:16] <LaserJock> we often have votes
[20:16] <ace_suares> before someone knows your merit, right ??
[20:16] <ace_suares> ad-hocrazy is even nicer :-)
[20:16] <LaserJock> we *do* have an Edubuntu Council but that's mostly for higher level governance and decision making
[20:16] <mhall119> ace_suares: yes, you have to do something first
[20:16] <mhall119> it just doesn't necessarily have to be done in/with edubuntu
[20:16] <ace_suares> In the whole light of attracting people to make a contribution, how do you see this meritocracy functioning to that end?
[20:17] <LaserJock> when they contribute they get a say
[20:17] <ace_suares> But what they contribute is defined by the meritocrats?
[20:17] <LaserJock> if a person wants a piece of the decision making pie, they need to jump in and start contributing
[20:17] <mhall119> ace_suares: if you have done things in the past that makes other confident in your ability to do things right in the future, your voice has more weight
[20:17] <LaserJock> no
[20:17] <LaserJock> not necessarily
[20:17] <ace_suares> just asking
[20:18] <LaserJock> often the "meritocrats" will define things that need to be done, etc.
[20:18] <LaserJock> and offer advice and guidance
[20:18] <ace_suares> LaserJock: but there is a lack of definition in what needs to be done or dont you agree
[20:18] <LaserJock> but generally it's pretty loose
[20:18] <LaserJock> yes, it is lacking
[20:18] <LaserJock> I think primarily because we don't have a lot of people
[20:18] <ace_suares> so waht do i do then?
[20:18] <mhall119> ace_suares: if a long-time Debian maintaner wanted to do something with Edubuntu,their debian work contributes to their merit
[20:18] <LaserJock> for instance
[20:18] <ace_suares> I wnat to contribute, but what to contribute?
[20:19] <LaserJock> you are already starting!
[20:19] <ace_suares> at the moment i am trying to make a proposal how the wiki can look
[20:19] <LaserJock> right
[20:19] <ace_suares> and it includes a download page that probably will disappear in the final version
[20:19] <ace_suares> is that okay ?
[20:19] <mhall119> ace_suares: have you past experience cleaning up wikis or making them more user-friendly?
[20:19] <LaserJock> why not?
[20:20] <ace_suares> okay then. Please keep the comments coming, they are very valuable for me. The earlier you comment the less unneeded work I am going to do and the more direction the work will get.
[20:20] <ace_suares> For instance, lining the icons in all the different pages is intersting the least
[20:20] <ace_suares> you need to re upload thenm on every page
[20:21] <LaserJock> what's wrong with the current page?
[20:21] <ace_suares> the solution i found is this page https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/SiteImages
[20:21] <ace_suares> in other pages you can link to those images (ubuntu logo and such)
[20:21] <ace_suares> that keeps the repeatedly used images in one place and it's easy to change them troughtout the wiki
[20:22] <ace_suares> I dont know if that's the right soultion, becuase I don't know if there are other solutions
[20:22] <ace_suares> so i am trying this out now
[20:22] <ace_suares> and if comments coming in saying that it can be done better, I'll change it if it makes sense.
[20:23] <ace_suares> also, it would have bene very nice to be able to include a footer of some kind
[20:23] <ace_suares> moinmoin docs say that there is an <<INCLUDE>> directive but that doesn't work on this wiki
[20:23] <ace_suares> maybe it's turned off
[20:23] <LaserJock> it works
[20:23] <LaserJock> we can do headers and footers
[20:23] <ace_suares> that's too bad because repeating stuff at the bottom could be easily maintained very simpel in one place
[20:23] <ace_suares> i think i can not do headers and footers from my account
[20:24] <ace_suares> and besides the include is more interesting
[20:24] <LaserJock> it's probably just a syntax thing
[20:24] <ace_suares> you can make a 'team' page and then include that page as PART of another page.
[20:24] <ace_suares> If you look at the wiki now there's couple of pages that specify all teams
[20:25] <ace_suares> if that part was included from one file than updates to the team would be in one palce and propagate trough the wiki
[20:25] <ace_suares> now there is some merit for you ;-)
[20:25] <ace_suares> If you can find out LaserJock how to do includes, it would help me very much.
[20:25] <LaserJock> ace_suares: so I'm wondering specifically what you don't like about the current page?
[20:25] <ace_suares> http://moinmo.in/HelpOnMacros/Include
[20:26] <LaserJock> you do <<Include(Page)>>
[20:26] <ace_suares> I dont know shoudl I discuss that now? or via the mailing list? It seems like a waste sometimes to just discuss it in irc and tomorrow someelse will say another thing.
[20:26] <ace_suares> LaserJock: I think I tried it. Maybe you try it and show me what I did wrong.
[20:27] <LaserJock> ace_suares: here's an example use: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Header
[20:27] <ace_suares> thx!
[20:28] <ace_suares> so maybe it has to do with the path
[20:28] <ace_suares> I will try.
[20:28] <LaserJock> ace_suares: are you mostly concerned about changing the layout?
[20:28] <ace_suares> I made this https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WikiSite/BigFooter
[20:28] <ace_suares> wnat to include that on some pages
[20:28] <ace_suares> no i am not concerned on the layout if you read the message to uwe carefully you'll see my thoiughts about it
[20:29] <ace_suares> it's structure, maintainability, and logical flow trough the site
[20:29] <ace_suares> layout is something afterwards
[20:30] <ace_suares> COOL ! it works!
[20:30] <LaserJock> I guess I'm confused as to what is wrong with the current page
[20:30] <LaserJock> other than it needing to be updated and maybe compacted a bit
[20:30] <ace_suares> is it okay if i explain that later?
[20:31] <ace_suares> takes a couple of words and I'd rather do it in plain view
[20:31] <LaserJock> I guess so
[20:31] <LaserJock> I would just say that it's important to keep in mind that it's not primarily targeted to end-users
[20:31] <ace_suares> also, i am adding pages but I am not removing or moving pages. Shold have to much influence on th ecurrent site.
[20:31] <ace_suares> Shouldn't
[20:31] <LaserJock> the target would be for potential and current contributors
[20:32] <LaserJock> sure, no problem
[20:32] <ace_suares> as a potential contributor, I got lost in the site almost immediatley
[20:32] <LaserJock> on that page specifically?
[20:32] <LaserJock> I agree that the site as a whole is a mess
[20:32] <ace_suares> What is the difference between Community and Develop ?
[20:32] <ace_suares> as long as we agree on that we are good ;-)
[20:33] <LaserJock> Community is ... people, communication, etc.
[20:33] <ace_suares> Why is wiki.edubuntu.org not at all prominently edubuntu?
[20:33] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[20:35] <LaserJock> ace_suares: hmm, you need to watch the path on some of your pages
[20:35] <LaserJock> ace_suares: they should all start with Edubuntu/ to keep the namespace clean
[20:35] <ace_suares> yeah that was an error i made on the beginning. I am on top of that now. No worries :-)
[20:36] <ace_suares> I just moved WikiSite/BigFooter to Edubuntu/WikiSite/BigFooter
[20:36] <LaserJock> k
[20:37] <ace_suares> I'd like you to follow closely but come up with suggestions... not 'commands'.,.. please?
[20:39] <LaserJock> so I think the idea with Community and Develop was that Community was to gather community info and governance. The "people stuff"
[20:39] <LaserJock> and Develop was more the technical things like todo lists, roadmaps, etc.
[20:39] <LaserJock> more the mechanics
[20:40] <ace_suares> I think they are partly overlapping. It shows in the pages. Teams is on many places. I gotta analyse it a bit more.
[20:40] <LaserJock> yeah, there probably is some overlap
[20:40] <LaserJock> I like how you used "Grow Edubuntu"
[20:41] <LaserJock> actually
[20:41] <LaserJock> I'm not sure that Community belongs on the wiki page other than to point to edubuntu.org/Community
[20:42] <LaserJock> so "Community", "Get Edubuntu", and "Need Support?" should be just links to edubuntu.org
[20:42] <LaserJock> and then Grow Edubuntu is the main trust of the wiki
[20:42] <ace_suares> thank you LaserJock about the 'Grow Edubuntu' thing. I think if you read my proposal page instead of the current page, you'll find it much more alluring...
[20:43] <ace_suares> LaserJock: so "Community", "Get Edubuntu", and "Need Support?" should be just links to edubuntu.org
[20:43] <ace_suares>  -- I can agree with that
[20:43] <ace_suares> My toughts mor eor less
[20:43] <ace_suares> except that edubuntu.org is a mess too
[20:43] <LaserJock> yes
[20:43] <LaserJock> one thing at a time :-0
[20:43] <LaserJock> :-) rather
[20:43] <ace_suares> gotaa clean up the wiki and define clearly waht those icons meen
[20:43] <ace_suares> then fix the website too
[20:44] <LaserJock> ace_suares: what do you think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam as a team landing page?
[20:45] <ace_suares> i like the header I will study that header too
[20:45] <ace_suares> I will tell you what i think about that page as I am progressing trough the site
[20:45] <ace_suares> it has many drawbacks mainly there is no overview
[20:45] <ace_suares> a table of contents would imporove it already greatly
[20:46] <ace_suares> you need an overview what you cna expext on the page else you wont scroll down
[20:47] <ace_suares> damn how you escapce {{attachment:file.png}} so that it shows the literal text?
[20:50] <LaserJock> {{{ }}} maybe
[20:50] <ace_suares> sp {{{{{ }}}}} or just {{{ }}}
[20:50] <LaserJock> just
[20:51] <ace_suares> no all five :-)
[20:51] <ace_suares> thx
[20:51] <LaserJock> oh, you wanted the {{ too
[20:52] <ace_suares> yeha becau you would paste that into the page
[20:52] <LaserJock> right
[20:53] <ace_suares> look: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/SiteImages
[20:53] <ace_suares> if youpaste them in yuour page they will show the correct image AND a alt-text (for accessabiity_
[20:54] <ace_suares> and if you ever want to chage the edubuntu logo troughout the site, it's done in ONE edit :-)))
[20:54] <ace_suares> now is that good or bad ...
[20:55] <ace_suares> gotta go to a party now
[20:55] <ace_suares> thx LaserJock for being involved!
[20:56] <ace_suares> mhall119 too
[20:56] <mhall119> what?  I wasn't paying attention\
[20:56] <ace_suares> mhall119 just thanking you that's all
[20:56] <mhall119> oh, I didn't do anything
[21:01] <ace_suares> LaserJock: will you send a mail to the list sufggesting that the three buttons go to the one site and the grow edubuntu goes to the wiki ? would help tremendously
[21:01] <ace_suares> gotta go now bye


[05:39] <Kilos> good rains all night
[05:43] <Kilos> morning inetpro superfly thatgraemeguy paddatrapper and all others
[05:43] <Kilos> elena_p welcome to ubuntu-za
[05:43] <Kilos> and morning to you
[05:58] <paddatrapper> Morning oom Kilos
[06:42] <superfly> Night Kilos, paddatrapper
[06:42] <Kilos> sleep tight superfly
[07:00] <paddatrapper> superfly: night
[07:07] <inetpro> good mornings
[07:08] <Kilos> morning inetpro
[07:09] <Kilos> you forgot me as an addon this time. you ok?
[07:09] <inetpro> haha, sorry oom K
[07:09] <Kilos> hahaha
[07:31] <chesedo> morning all
[07:31] <Kilos> hi chesedo
[07:32]  * chesedo sees that me had peeps with IPv6 addresses here
[07:32] <chesedo> s/me/we/
[07:33] <Kilos> who
[07:37]  * Kilos waits for elena_p to say hi
[07:38] <paddatrapper> chesedo: Those seem to be bots of some sort - joined and left a couple of channels I'm on
[07:41] <chesedo> paddatrapper: seems reasonable - the first 64 bits are also the same amongst these two
[10:25] <unlaudable> so that was interesting...
[10:25] <unlaudable> I was getting notifications from another #...
[10:25] <Kilos> yes?
[10:25] <unlaudable> but could not open xchat anywhere... not in alt-tab, not in tray
[10:25] <unlaudable> eventually killed it
[10:25] <Kilos> ai!
[10:25] <unlaudable> had to resetup my nicks XD
[10:26] <Kilos> unity?
[10:26] <unlaudable> Gnome... but I am a bit behind...
[10:26] <unlaudable> seems to be a known thing... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/995916
[10:26] <Kilos> im trying to place you
[10:27] <Kilos> in a game park?
[10:27] <Kilos> or nature reserve?
[10:27] <unlaudable> um.. no Jozi, work for Obsidian
[10:28] <Kilos> oh you the guy that got the guy in the nature reserve to use afrihost?
[10:28] <unlaudable> speaking of which anyone interested in attending the Docker event this week?
[10:28] <unlaudable> Kilos, have no idea what you talking about :-)
[10:28] <Kilos> lol im lost
[10:28] <unlaudable> I rarely chats here...
[10:29] <Kilos> yes thats why i forget
[10:29] <Kilos> gotta do things regularly so they go into subconscious or i forget
[10:30] <Kilos> have you fixed the bug now
[10:30] <inetpro> Kilos: he's been here like for ever
[10:30] <Kilos> yes inetpro but quiet
[10:30] <Kilos> i remember noisy peeps like you
[10:30]  * Kilos ducks
[10:30] <inetpro> ai!
[10:31] <Kilos> hehe
[11:05] <inetpro> Kilos: even Cryterion is still here
[11:05] <inetpro> wb Cryterion
[11:05] <Kilos> hi Cryterion
[11:05] <Kilos> i remember him
[11:05] <Kilos> hehe
[11:06] <Cryterion> hi
[11:08] <chesedo> Kilos: obsidian is where karl (kmf) works too
[11:09] <chesedo> unlaudable: which docker event?
[11:12] <inetpro> chesedo: I think it's this one, https://twitter.com/Rubicomm1/status/833608288038219776
[11:13] <inetpro> s/it's/may/
[11:14] <inetpro> or https://twitter.com/FreeBeerSession/status/822360241388093440
[11:14] <inetpro> Jhb on Thursday
[11:42] <chesedo> inetpro: great ty
[11:42]  * chesedo added them to our next agenda
[11:43] <chesedo> we should probably keep a look out for these kind of stuff to announce them on the news list...
[11:43] <chesedo> they can create a nice conversation piece there and for meetings
[11:55] <unlaudable> sorry... https://www.eventbrite.com/e/docker-south-african-roadshow-johannesburg-tickets-29665584562
[12:14] <chesedo> ty unlaudable
[12:16] <chesedo> unlaudable: will you be there?
[12:16] <unlaudable> I am going to be yes, as is kmf
[12:17] <chesedo> so you will join our meeting on the 28th to share how it went?
[12:25] <chesedo> hi RemonShai
[12:32] <RemonShai> hi che
[12:33] <RemonShai> hi chesedo , glad to see you...
[12:51] <chesedo> you too RemonShai, welcome to the ubuntu-za channel...
[12:51] <chesedo> or have you been here before?
[12:51] <RemonShai> yea.... a bit...
[12:52] <chesedo> RemonShai: lol, another one of the silent ones?
[12:53] <RemonShai> yea... ubuntu-bd
[12:53] <chesedo> ah ok, do you know tareq
[12:53] <chesedo> *?
[12:54] <RemonShai> yea... my friend & great man too... I know Kilos, pavlushka etc.
[12:57] <chesedo> great, do you know the status of his ubuntu membership?
[12:57] <chesedo> we discussed it one here in one of our meetings...
[12:57] <unlaudable> chesedo, the irc meeting?
[12:58] <chesedo> s/one/once/
[12:58] <chesedo> unlaudable: yes :D
[12:58] <RemonShai> yea...
[12:58] <unlaudable> 28th? what time?
[12:58] <chesedo> unlaudable: 20:30 SAST
[12:58] <RemonShai> I know but I'm not a member.
[12:59] <unlaudable> chesedo, yeah can do that... *OK Google*...
[12:59] <chesedo> RemonShai: oh...
[13:00] <chesedo> unlaudable: lol
[13:03] <unlaudable> anyone goign to the devconf event?
[13:03] <unlaudable> going
[13:04] <chesedo> unlaudable: march's?
[13:04] <unlaudable> http://www.devconf.co.za/ same time as scaleconf unfortunately... :-(
[13:04] <unlaudable> http://scaleconf.org/
[13:05] <unlaudable> not going to either...
[13:05] <unlaudable> at least the scaleconf stuff makes its way onto youtube
[13:05] <chesedo> i think kulelu88 might be at one of them...
[16:40] <SEptic> Maaz coffee please
[16:40] <Maaz> SEptic: There isn't a pot on
[16:40] <SEptic> :/
[16:40] <SEptic> Maaz you make me sad
[16:40] <Maaz> SEptic: What?
[16:41] <Kilos> Maaz coffee on
[16:41]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[16:41] <Kilos> hi SEptic
[16:41] <SEptic> hahaha
[16:41] <SEptic> hi Kils
[16:41] <SEptic> Kilos
[16:41] <SEptic> oops
[16:41] <Kilos> lol
[16:41] <SEptic> what have i missed?
[16:42] <Kilos> rain i think
[16:42] <Kilos> rather wet here
[16:42] <SEptic> yea, heard about people stuck in flooded cars etc
[16:43] <Kilos> sjoe i dont get news so just see what happens around me
[16:43] <Kilos> whats news your side
[16:45] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[16:45] <Kilos> Maaz dankie man
[16:45] <Maaz> Groot plesier my vriend
[16:57] <SEptic> been super busy
[16:57] <SEptic> did a 4 or 5 week stint in the uk
[16:57] <SEptic> work is swamping, but alls good
[17:09] <Kilos> great
[17:46] <SEptic_> any one here use logitech media server?
[18:00] <not_found> \o
[18:04] <Cryterion> maaz: coffee on
[18:04]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[18:06] <Cryterion> maaz: beer cold
[18:06] <Maaz> Cryterion: What?
[18:08] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Cryterion!
[18:15] <not_found> Maaz: tea please
[18:15] <Maaz> As soon as the kettle boils not_found I will pour boiling water into your cup if you have the tea bag in already
[18:15] <not_found> Maaz: I love you
[18:15] <Maaz> not_found Don't embarrass youself. You aren't a cyber chick
[18:15] <not_found> >.>
[18:26] <chesedo> lol, hi not_found
[18:26] <not_found> hey chesedo, how are you?
[18:26] <chesedo> or 404 :p
[18:26] <not_found> :p
[18:27] <chesedo> i am 200
[18:27] <chesedo> or great and yourself?
[18:27]  * not_found was using an avatar with 404 on its shirt on the ubuntuforums for ages
[18:27] <not_found> fine thanks :)
[18:30]  * not_found is doing that night shift thing... night number 3 of 4, almost half way... zzzzz
[18:32] <Kilos> hi not_found
[18:35] <not_found> uncle Kilos, how are you?
[18:35] <Kilos> ok ty lad and you?
[18:36] <Kilos> just been tired so slept most of the day
[18:38] <not_found> any news on the results from Australia the peeps in ZA wanted? and I am doing fine thanks
[18:46] <SEptic_> *forgot Kilos was upside down*
[18:50] <not_found> Kilos: ^^
[18:52] <Kilos> haha sorry bad bad bad mobile connection here
[18:52] <Kilos> nothing yet not_found just a demand from lawers
[18:54] <not_found> :/
[20:06] <superfly> Kilos: is there any way you can collect the cash already donated and send that to the doctors so long? it might appease them for a while. most docs are happy to work out a payment plan (they like to earn interest on the money you owe them)
[20:34] <Kilos> superfly tara does that all the time
[20:34] <Kilos> debs is negotiating with them now
[20:35] <Kilos> they wanted $200 a month and she is telling them impossible and offering $50 i think
[20:36] <Kilos> i think the lawyer is handling all the doctors
[20:36] <Kilos> and paramed guys
[20:36] <Kilos> ill try find out more
[20:36] <Kilos> gotta sleep now
[20:37] <smile4ever> good night
[20:37] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:37] <smile4ever> :-)
[20:37] <Kilos> :D
[21:27] <not_found> 2000 ZAR isn't a non trivial amount
[21:27] <not_found> double negative >.<
[21:27] <not_found> engrish is hard


[00:46] <ibeardslee> quantal unity gui in KVM has some degree of less than desirable
[01:19]  * ibeardslee wonders what it would take to maintain Sunbird with the updates going into the Lightning plugin
[01:23] <ajmitch> probably more than you'd like
[01:24] <ibeardslee> yeah .. a quick look looks like it won't be simple
[01:25] <ibeardslee> maybe the trick would be just to nag Mozilla about lightning being treated as a component rather than an extension
[01:28] <ajmitch> given their lack of ongoing thunderbird development, don't get your hopes up
[01:30] <ibeardslee> so is thunderbird going to be dropped as the default mail client in Ubuntu?
[01:33]  * ajmitch shrugs
[01:35]  * ibeardslee wishes he had the $$ to throw at something (well many things) and say 'this needs to be sorted'
[01:36] <ajmitch> throwing money at things without adequate direction can lead to all sorts of issues :)
[01:37] <ibeardslee> true, but you gotta ask about the sanity of throwing Thunderbird as an Evolution replacement, without actually finishing the job.
[01:39]  * ibeardslee is just a bit whiny while trying to build an sane default desktop build for staff.
[01:39] <chilts> is there such a thing as a standard desktop inside Catalyst?
[01:40] <ibeardslee> ish.  When people start they have a machine built for them .. that's the default.
[01:41] <ibeardslee> a lot of people rebuild/reinstall, but there are more and more people that aren't the hacker type and just want to be able to work
[01:41] <ibeardslee> plus, our process of creating our own 'standard' desktop with easy to use and configure setups means that we have a knowledge base for doing the same elsewhere.
[01:42] <chilts> true
[01:42] <chilts> I guess as the company gets larger with more non-technical people, it makes sense
[01:42] <chilts> even with technical people too I suppose
[19:55] <chilts> morning
[19:56] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:00] <ojwb> morning
[20:44] <chilts> and what a lovely one it is too
[20:45] <chilts> shame I'm in a "team building" exercise for the next 4 hours
[20:45] <chilts> at least it's chargeable :)
[20:50] <ojwb> not an outdoor team building exercise I take it?
[20:55] <ajmitch> morning
[20:59] <chilts> ojwb: yeah, indoors
[20:59] <chilts> in a small room, lots of people, getting hotter
[21:12] <thumper> morning
[21:35] <kcj> Morning.
[23:40] <ajmitch> fmarier: for some reason I had someone emailing me about fcheck & the deprecation warning you fixed several months ago
[23:40] <ajmitch> I'm guessing that it's not really a important bug to fix in 12.04
[23:40] <fmarier> ajmitch: the one i put in my PPA?
[23:41] <ajmitch> I synced fcheck from debian a long time ago, I can't see anywhere that'd list me as maintainer :)
[23:41] <ajmitch> but the version in precise still throws that deprecation warning, I think
[23:42] <fmarier> yeah
[23:42] <fmarier> it's one of those annoying problems where technically it's just a warning and doesn't break anything
[23:42] <ajmitch> but it's annoying enough to spam you every day?
[23:43] <fmarier> but in practice, because of the cron email spammage, it means you pretty much install the package from my PPA or you stop using fcheck
[23:43] <ajmitch> so it might be worth fixing for 12.04 still, since it really lowers the value of a warning system that cries wolf all the time
[23:43] <fmarier> IIRC, it spams you everytime fcheck runs (every 6-12 hours)
[23:44] <fmarier> i think it's worth fixing. given that the fix is just a sync from debian
[23:45] <fmarier> that's all I did and it's been working fine for a few months
[23:45] <ajmitch> sorry that the bug wasn't spotted before precise was released :)
[23:50] <fmarier> looking at my PPA, there's two more packages with cron spam: rkhunter (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rkhunter/+bug/883324) and popularity-contest (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/popularity-contest/+bug/858697)
[23:51] <fmarier> they are not as straightforward as fcheck though because the packages in Debian have more changes


[07:12] <ubuntu-newbie> hi
[07:12] <ubuntu-newbie> any update on ubuntu touch?
[10:44] <Shrukul> Hi! I was trying to port ubuntu touch for my YU Yureka and I compiled the Ubuntu touch and now some .img files have been generated like boot.img, system.img, recovery.img and ramdisk.img. Which are the ones that need to be flashed?
[15:28] <Guest46985> hi all, i was wondering if there is someone available to help me with a quick questing regarding building.
[15:29] <Guest46985> i try to build something through lunch and its saying it's missing a product spec
[15:41] <captain_> good afternoon, i need some help with my aguaris ubuntu touch
[15:42] <captain_> i try to install some packages, but i get "Something wicked happened resolving 'derived.archive.canonical.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)"
[15:44] <captain_> I am connected with ssh through my router and have read/write root
[15:44] <captain_> so apt-get worked correctly the first 15 times
[15:45] <captain_> is anyone listening?
[15:51] <panayiot91> hello
[15:52] <panayiot91> I Need some help with my ubuntu touch,when i try to install a package, i get "Something wicked happened resolving 'derived.archive.canonical.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)"
[17:15] <mcphail> My SD card is mounted under /media/phablet/--Unique-id--/ . Is there a path to access the SD card generically, without the unique-id?
[17:16] <popey> mcphail: that's the standard location.
[17:17] <mcphail> popey: I'm looking to make an apparmor read/write allowance, to store data files on the sdcard. With this setup, it isn't possible...
[17:18] <mcphail> popey: (still working on Baldur's gate...)
[17:20] <mcphail> the only way around that seems to be to make an app unconfined or to allow read access to the whole SD card. Both options are suboptimal
[17:21]  * mcphail thinks /mnt/sdcard0 should become a standard location and /mnt/sdcardo/app.developer should be part of the standard apparmor profile...
[17:23] <popey> mcphail: look at docviewer
[17:23] <popey> mcphail: that has an apparmour profie to read from /home/phablet/documents and /media/blahblah/Documents
[17:24] <popey> mcphail: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-docviewer-dev/ubuntu-docviewer-app/trunk/view/head:/docviewer.apparmor
[17:25] <mcphail> popey: aah - didn't realise you could glob apparmor paths! That's exactly what I need. Thanks!
[17:52] <brunch875> am I the only one who thinks javascript is pretty awful?
[18:25] <studio_> hi
[18:26] <popey> hello
[18:28] <studio_> i was reading about intel atom x3/x5/x7 now i't like to know, is there, will there be a different for the apps/programms for the intel based devices and the arm based devices?
[18:29] <popey> yes and no
[18:29] <studio_> ?
[18:29] <popey> for free software, we can build for arm and x86
[18:29] <popey> for non-free we can't
[18:29] <popey> e.g. skype isn't available in arm builds (other than android/ios)
[18:30] <BOHverkill> who needs skype ;)
[18:32] <studio_> exp. "skype", it is built for android on arm. you are using android "things" to work on ubuntu. so you can't use skype on ubuntu touch on an arm based device? do you need the emu?
[18:32] <popey> skype was just an example
[18:32] <popey> same applies to other things like steam
[18:32] <studio_> exact
[18:33] <studio_> do you (we) need the emu for x86?
[18:33] <popey> we don't support android apps
[18:33] <popey> so that won't work right now
[18:34] <studio_> popey, you or maybe me missunderstood about the x86 emu for arm?
[18:34] <popey> emulators are an option, feel free to test that
[18:35] <studio_> but it is working under x and not mir :(
[18:47] <studio_> found it, the name, for exp., is ExaGear
[19:03] <studio_> so, when will x applications work on mir? maybe i am wrong, but i thing this is a big problem, isn't it?
[19:05] <studio_> hmm, as i said x and Benno right entered ...
[19:06] <studio_> Benno-007, have you seen, that bq made the "first" ubuntu os "public"?
[19:11] <studio_> john-mcaleely, are you still there?
[19:15] <studio_> for ppls. who ask for the latest "official" firmware for the bq e4.5: http://www.mibqyyo.com/descargas/2015/05/20/firmware-ubuntu-14-10-r21/
[19:18] <studio_> so if there are problems with boot loop or other problems, now they can flash their devices "official" with the latest firmware with the mtk-tools.
[19:23] <studio_> popey, where are the differences between the BQ E4.5 and Meizu MX4 (pro) regarding the software and handling?
[19:24] <popey> once bq gets OTA 4 they'll be mostly the same.
[19:24] <popey> OTA 4 will give the bq phone vivid (15.04)
[19:24] <studio_> but, can the meizu handle mhl?
[19:24] <popey> dunno, not tried
[19:27] <studio_> btw, will meizu enable to use git, for open source, like bq did?
[19:27] <popey> dunno
[19:28] <studio_> dunno is my second nic name ;)
[19:35] <studio_> i'd like to "push" the ut devices on my connections, but, in the moment i can't see the advantages, compared to ios or sailfish ...
[19:37] <brunch875>   nyeh, I believe it's rather pointless to have that uploaded there
[19:38] <brunch875> it's much more handy to ubuntu-device-flash
[19:38] <brunch875> although I can understand from a windows point of view
[19:46] <brunch875> :\ I'm trying to make my first html5 app but cordova keeps on complaining that the icon is missing
[19:46] <brunch875> is it some known bug?
[19:49] <brunch875> the config xml looks like http://paste.ubuntu.com/11312718/
[20:09] <brunch875> I'm trying to make run a little html5 game on phaser, which works great when deploying on the desktop using the ubuntu-sdk
[20:10] <brunch875> but when deploying on the phone, the application displays a blank screen
[20:15] <brunch875> I give up! Oh well.


[00:26] <Unit193> Now that Debian freeze is over, I re-poked sunweaver about mate-polkit, see Debian #990271.
[00:26] -ubottu:#xubuntu-devel- Debian bug 990271 in policykit-1-gnome "policykit-1-gnome: unmaintained upstream, should not be included in trixie" [Serious, Open] https://bugs.debian.org/990271
[00:27] <Unit193> We *could* work with the MATE team in Ubuntu to get it patched at least there, but going as far up the chain seems preferrable to me.  My suggestion is just to blacklist KDE and GNOME from that desktop autolaunch file.
[00:27] <Unit193> (https://sources.debian.org/src/mate-polkit/1.26.1-3/src/polkit-mate-authentication-agent-1.desktop.in.in/#L8)


[03:18] <MutantTurkey> flyers game was awesome
[13:58] <ChinnoDog> morning peeps
[14:03] <andrew> morning dogs
[14:09] <teddy-dbear> mornin' all you silly humans ;-)
[14:09] <andrew> teddy-dbear: what about goats? http://i.imgur.com/IERh4.jpg
[14:10] <teddy-dbear> no goats here
[14:11] <teddy-dbear> just a few bots
[15:15] <ChinnoDog> you callin me a dog?
[15:16] <andrew> Yes.
[15:18] <ssweeny> it's right there in your name
[15:18] <ssweeny> you could clear up the confusion by going by ChinnoDawg
[15:44]  * teddy-dbear votes for ChinnoBunny :-[
[15:44] <andrew> It's nearly that time of year
[15:47] <teddy-dbear> how does teddy-dbunny sound?
[15:50] <SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!  I'm engaged!
[15:52] <ssweeny> congratulations SamuraiAlba!
[15:52] <SamuraiAlba> thankies!
[15:52] <ssweeny> that is good bacon indeed
[15:52] <SamuraiAlba> met my GF in second grade.  Been a long time coming :)
[15:52] <ssweeny> wow
[15:53] <ssweeny> my sister recently married a man she met in pre-school (they hadn't been dating that whole time of course)
[15:53] <SamuraiAlba> I haven't been dating the whole time LOL
[16:00] <EvilPhoenix> greetings, everyone.  i trust you are all well?
[16:00] <ChinnoDog> ssweeny: that is pretty cool. Did they re-meet by accident?
[16:00] <ssweeny> ChinnoDog, sort of. they knew each other through high school, then parted ways when he joined the air force and she went to college
[16:00] <ssweeny> i believe they reconnected via facebook or some such thing
[16:01] <ssweeny> then one thing led to another