[00:00] <racarr> but uh, yeh I'm trying to remove it from the proto
[00:00] <racarr> there is some weirdness that goes on below the session mediator
[00:00] <racarr> that I don't entirely understand yet
[00:06] <racarr> robert_ancell: The other thing is if we reject connections
[00:06] <racarr> in the communicator as suggested, then we reject them before we read the client name
[00:06] <robert_ancell> racarr, no - there's an important difference. In the fd case, one end sets the fd in the message, it is removed from the message and transmitted out of band and then refilled in the receivers message (with a different numerical value)
[00:06] <robert_ancell> In the pid case, the client never sets the value, and the server never reads the value from the message (it reads it from the socket)
[00:07] <robert_ancell> So conceptually, the pid is not part of the protocol
[00:07] <racarr> so we have to change the model, the idea was before, the clients send their name/.desktop file and the shell matches up (i.e. this pid is allowed to have the desktop)
[00:07] <racarr> to just the shell fills in the name
[00:07] <racarr> based on the pid
[00:07] <racarr> and I haven't figured out the best way to propose all that yet.
[00:07] <racarr> robert_ancell: The client sends the pid, it's just hidden away
[00:07] <racarr> in the call to open
[00:07] <RAOF> If the client sends the pid we can't trust it.
[00:08] <robert_ancell> racarr, the system sets the pid, the client never sets it
[00:08] <robert_ancell> it's completely transparent to the client
[00:08] <racarr> RAOF: I mean the socket credentials
[00:08] <RAOF> If you're trying to do authentication, you can't possibly trust anything the client sends you.
[00:08] <robert_ancell> RAOF, no, he's using it in the message as a convenience when we pass it around the server. It's set on reception of the message
[00:09] <robert_ancell> It's true that the pid is associated with the message, but it's not part of it
[00:09] <RAOF> racarr: I guess. I think you'll technically find that it's the kernel that sets the pid, and probably only when you ask it.
[00:09] <racarr> No, it always sets it
[00:09] <racarr> POSIX models is as an implicit out of band message, just like FD passing
[00:09] <racarr> linux has a special API with getsockopt to read it without using recvmsg
[00:09] <racarr> I dunno
[00:12] <RAOF> racarr: If it's set in the client, then we can't trust it - because we can't trust that the client hasn't interposed an open() implementation that sets a bad pid.
[00:12] <RAOF> Ah, but I see that's not what you're actually saying. :)
[00:12] <racarr> mm
[00:13] <racarr> RAOF: The context, is that it was just easiest with the current abstractions to add it as a field to the ConnectParameters protobuf message and fill it in based on the socket credentials
[00:13] <racarr> in the message processor
[00:13] <racarr> and I don't think this really breaks any abstractions horribly
[00:13] <robert_ancell> racarr, but that's bad because it exposes this detail all the way back to the client via the .proto which is very confusing
[00:13] <RAOF> racarr: This would be https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/implement-client-credentials/+merge/171889 right?
[00:14] <robert_ancell> racarr, and unnecessary as long as you pass meta information with the message in the server or set the PID as a property of the Session
[00:14] <racarr> Oi
[00:15] <racarr> robert_ancell: And how do you pass the pid up
[00:15] <racarr> from the RPC part of the frontend
[00:15] <racarr> I mean it has to pass through the SessionMediator
[00:15] <racarr> where the interface is generated from the .proto file
[00:16] <racarr> or you have to do it beore the SessionMediator (i.e. before there is a session, and the name is read, etc)
[00:16] <racarr> I
[00:16] <racarr> am not interested in being right or wrong about this though :p
[00:16] <racarr> i've already moved it out like I said, and moved it to the communicator
[00:16] <racarr> I'm just running in to some
[00:16] <racarr> bugs/non understood behavior
[00:17]  * robert_ancell dives into the complexity of the frontend..
[00:17] <racarr> notably on_new_connection is called twice (in the acceptance tests at least)
[00:17] <racarr> for each client
[00:17] <racarr> and both times added to connected_sessions
[00:18] <racarr> the first time the socket credentials I get off the pid are
[00:18] <racarr> some sort of nonsense
[00:18] <racarr> neither the client or the server process pid
[00:18] <racarr> but very close!
[00:18] <racarr> numerically that is
[00:19] <racarr> That was EOD yesterday
[00:19] <racarr> ill revisit it soon
[00:23] <RAOF> From the MP it sounds like what the shell actually wants is a callback when a certain pid connects.
[00:23] <RAOF> Maybe you don't need to pass the pid up at all?
[00:25] <robert_ancell> RAOF, you need the PID for the shell to match an incoming Mir connection with the app the shell launched
[00:25] <robert_ancell> closing the loop
[00:25] <robert_ancell> though you're stuffed if the app forks...
[00:26] <racarr> RAOF: The thought was originally you needed to mtch the pid with the name
[00:26] <racarr> which isn't read until the SessionMediator (or the processor, preparing to invoke the session mediator, at least)
[00:26] <racarr> but yes, that is the idea now, just dont pass it up
[00:26] <racarr> and do it in the communicator
[00:26] <RAOF> Ah.
[00:26] <racarr> on_new_connection
[00:26] <robert_ancell> Argh, There really should be a SessionMediator per connection. That's dumb
[00:27] <racarr> which is where I ran in to this strange behavior
[00:27] <racarr> robert_ancell: ? There is
[00:27] <RAOF> It seems like pid would be a perfectly reasonable property of a SessionMediator.
[00:27] <robert_ancell> yeah
[00:27] <racarr> Yes
[00:27] <RAOF> Should we at some point need to pass that up :)
[00:27] <racarr> I think it's the natural place to put it  :p
[00:27] <racarr> but the SessionMediator interface
[00:27] <racarr> is generated
[00:27] <racarr> by the .proto
[00:27] <racarr> is the whole point
[00:27] <robert_ancell> racarr, no it isn't - it extends the interface generated in the .proto
[00:28] <robert_ancell> so you can attach additional information
[00:28]  * robert_ancell chases make_ipc_server() backwards
[00:28] <racarr> robert_ancell: class SessionMediator : public mir::protobuf::DisplayServer
[00:28] <robert_ancell> racarr,  mir::protobuf::DisplayServer is generated, but SessionMediator is not
[00:29] <racarr> I know but you have to do it in the
[00:29] <racarr> connect method
[00:29] <robert_ancell> racarr, but by the time you get to the connect method, the PID will already be set for that instance of SessionMediator
[00:29] <robert_ancell> or is SessionMediator created after a connect?
[00:30] <RAOF> Why do you have to do it in the connect method?
[00:30] <racarr> well. I guess you don't hve to
[00:30] <robert_ancell> racarr, Can't you get the PID in mf::ProtobufSocketCommunicator::start_accept and  make it an arg to make_ipc_server?
[00:31] <racarr> Sure
[00:32] <robert_ancell> actually, that's weird - we create a SocketSession before on_new_connection is called
[00:32] <robert_ancell> that seems wrong
[00:34] <racarr> I am probably just going to sort out making it work
[00:34] <racarr> in the Communicator
[00:34] <racarr> with no name in the authorizer interface
[00:34] <racarr> and nothing in the .proto
[00:34] <racarr> if the shell wants to do something with the pid later
[00:35] <racarr> they already know the assosciation of pid/desktop
[00:35] <racarr> so they can attach it to whatever session object they have
[00:35] <robert_ancell> sounds good
[00:38] <RAOF> Of course, unless the client fork()s ;)
[02:54] <duflu> Whee, copper wires
[03:15] <RAOF> Oh, hi. Mesa refactoring may well be what's causing the mesa crash.
[05:25] <tvoss> good morning :)
[05:30] <RAOF> Yo!
[05:30] <RAOF> I have the obvious question!
[05:34] <tvoss> RAOF, shoot :)
[05:43] <tvoss> didrocks, what is the best way to pull in the new gmock package to saucy to start working on mp's for all reverse-build-depends?
[05:43] <didrocks> tvoss: right now, using the link I sent you is the best way
[05:43] <tvoss> didrocks, mind pinging me the link again? :)
[05:45] <didrocks> tvoss: http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/
[05:45] <tvoss> didrocks, thx
[05:45] <didrocks> tvoss: you can get dget google-mock_1.6.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
[05:46] <didrocks> (the source is available upstream or in the debian PTS)
[05:46] <tvoss> didrocks, there is a tar.gz. in there, too
[05:48] <didrocks> tvoss: the tar.gz is the debian diff
[05:48] <tvoss> didrocks, ah
[05:51] <didrocks> tvoss: FYI, rlvm is fine and rebuild using the source
[05:51] <tvoss> didrocks, ack, will look into libusermetrics. Did you do any particular magic or just added an add_subdirectory(..)?
[05:53] <didrocks> tvoss: we don't ship any CMakeLists.txt with gmock, isn't it?
[05:53] <didrocks> add_subdirectory won't work then?
[05:54] <tvoss> didrocks, how do we do it then?
[05:54] <didrocks> tvoss: I'm thinking :)
[05:58] <tvoss> didrocks, also another look at https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/platform-api/add-package-config/+merge/168642
[05:58] <tvoss> would be very much appreciated
[05:58] <didrocks> tvoss: will do, do I need to backlog all the comments?
[05:59] <tvoss> didrocks, I think rsalveti had some good comments and the diff should be cleaner now
[05:59] <didrocks> ok
[06:01] <didrocks> tvoss: it seems we'll need to build it ourselves
[06:01] <didrocks> like:
[06:01] <didrocks> g++ -I/usr/src/gmock -c /usr/src/gmock/src/gmock-all.cc
[06:01] <didrocks> g++ -I/usr/src/gtest -c /usr/src/gtest/src/gtest-all.cc
[06:01] <didrocks> ar -rv libgmock.a gmock-all.o gtest-all.o
[06:01] <didrocks> and then link against it
[06:01] <tvoss> didrocks, can we add the CMakeLists.txt as a distro patch?
[06:02] <didrocks> tvoss: sure, I think that will help more than just us :)
[06:02] <didrocks> tvoss: I was looking if we can reuse something like that from upstream source first, didn't find anything reusable
[06:02] <didrocks> but please double check
[06:04] <tvoss> didrocks, looking at trunk here, a CMakeLists.txt is part of both trunk and the zip from googlemock
[06:04] <tvoss> https://code.google.com/p/googlemock/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk
[06:04] <didrocks> tvoss: yeah, I think a substract of it (as it redefines the project name and so on) can be useful
[06:05] <didrocks> like, we don't want I guess:
[06:05] <didrocks> project(gmock CXX C)
[06:05] <didrocks> cmake_minimum_required(VERSION 2.6.2)
[06:05] <didrocks> right?
[06:05] <tvoss> didrocks, oh, those should be perfectly fine, cmake is clever enough i nthat case :)
[06:06] <tvoss> didrocks, we have used the CMakeLists.txt within mir from its in-tree gmock version for some time now
[06:06] <didrocks> tvoss: ah, my knowledge is not so advanced :) but how do you deal with the prefix? (as it's ${sourcedir}/src instead of ${prefix}/src?
[06:06] <didrocks> you just hack around sourcedir == prefix?
[06:07] <tvoss> didrocks, it should "just work"(tm). In mir, we only did an add_subdirectory(3rd_party/gmock gmock) and that pulled in all of the targets
[06:07] <tvoss> didrocks, that being said, as projects are reasoning in terms of targets, things are easy :)
[06:08] <tvoss> robert_ancell, ping
[06:08] <tvoss> robert_ancell, hey, I was looking for a branch you pasted here recently that addresses a vt issue
[06:09]  * tvoss waves hands
[06:11] <didrocks> tvoss: we'll see, I'm a little bit afraid with gtests
[06:11] <didrocks> tvoss: as you copied that in build tree and you end up with the copy
[06:11] <didrocks> it seems it's looking for ../gtests
[06:11] <didrocks> so it could work
[06:11] <didrocks> and google-mock deps on libgtest-dev
[06:12] <tvoss> didrocks, I'm confused now :) gmock usually has got its own gtest :)
[06:12] <didrocks> tvoss: not on the installed version
[06:20] <tvoss> didrocks, I see, so time to adjust the cmakelists.txt for gmock to pull in /usr/src/gtest :)
[06:20] <didrocks> tvoss: done that, I'm just fighting with add_subdirectory for now :p
[06:21] <didrocks> tvoss: I have no idea where the .a will ends up TBH ;)
[06:21] <tvoss> didrocks, you should not need the .a, the target should be fine
[06:21] <didrocks> tvoss: it will build a .a at some points, no?
[06:22] <didrocks> or just the .o? where we invoke the target?
[06:22] <didrocks> When specifying an out-of-tree source a
[06:22] <didrocks>   binary directory must be explicitly specified.
[06:23] <tvoss> didrocks, yeah, just call it gmock or gtest respectively
[06:23] <tvoss> didrocks, then cmake takes care of the rest
[06:23] <didrocks> yeah, let's see how it goes :)
[06:23] <didrocks> you think it will magically find them? ;)
[06:24] <tvoss> didrocks, I'm pretty sure ;)
[06:24] <didrocks> at least, it doesn't complain :p
[06:24]  * tvoss believes in cmake ;)
[06:24] <didrocks> lets see if Mir builds
[06:25] <didrocks> how come I've a backlog of 3 hours so early in the morning?
[06:26] <tvoss> didrocks, don't ask, just do ;)
[06:26] <didrocks> tvoss: well, that's my life :p
[06:26]  * tvoss reads the slashdot article on the BART strike and the conclusion that software engineers should have a union, too
[06:27] <didrocks> ah
[06:27] <didrocks> build failure
[06:27]  * didrocks tests with internal gmock to check if the diff is from this
[06:27] <tvoss> didrocks, mind pastebinning the build failure?
[06:28] <didrocks> tvoss: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5842593/
[06:28] <didrocks> hum
[06:28] <didrocks> thanks build-area
[06:28] <didrocks> I've relaunched the vanilla build, hence the truncated log
[06:28] <tvoss> didrocks, a little less french would help me;)
[06:28] <didrocks> ahah ;)
[06:29] <didrocks> tvoss: ok, will run the next one with LANG=C :p
[06:29] <tvoss> \o/
[06:30]  * tvoss needs coffee
[06:30] <didrocks> I kept the warning downgrade though, but maybe adding the subdirectory had some side-effects
[06:30]  * didrocks as well while mir is building
[06:33] <smspillaz> tvoss: ah frick, BART strike?
[06:34] <smspillaz> tvoss: this isn't good, I'm going there tomorrow and kinda need to get around...
[06:34] <tvoss> smspillaz, http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/07/03/2042253/bart-strike-provides-stark-contrast-to-techs-non-union-world
[06:35] <didrocks> tvoss: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5842602/
[06:35] <smspillaz> tvoss: hmm, as much as I support unions, I hope it'll be over soon (http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_23581424/full-speed-ahead-day-2-bart-strike). My flight arrives at around 2230h
[06:36] <didrocks> -Werror=unused-local-typedefs
[06:36] <tvoss> didrocks, we had some specific parts for handling that in Mir
[06:37] <tvoss> didrocks, let me find them
[06:38] <alf> RAOF: Hi! In the display-configuration-change-handler MP, I intoduced the VideoDevices interface and a UdevVideoDevices implementation for it. It is used only in Display right now, to register an event handler, but I was thinking that it could also be extended for device discovery in Platform (i.e. replace the direct udev calls we have there). This would allow easier mocking/unit-testing.
[06:38] <didrocks> tvoss: # Don't treat warnings as errors in 3rd_party/{gmock}
[06:38] <didrocks> string (REPLACE " -Werror " " " CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS ${CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS})
[06:38] <didrocks> I guess
[06:38] <didrocks> but the add_subdirectory is just after that one
[06:39] <tvoss> didrocks, that might well be the case, and we restore the flags right after the add_subdirectory
[06:39] <alf> RAOF: The UdevVideoDevices implementation uses ad-hoc udev wrappers that should probably be replaced by your c++ udev classes.
[06:39] <didrocks> tvoss: yep, the change are quite simple (for now, I'll clean that with prefix): http://paste.ubuntu.com/5842607/
[06:40] <didrocks> tvoss: but I don't understand what changes compared to your internal gmock though
[06:42] <tvoss> didrocks, I do see errors when using gmock, mind building with -j1?
[06:43] <didrocks> tvoss: good idea, it will be clearer
[06:44] <RAOF> alf: I'll have a look.
[06:45] <alf> RAOF: (note: the MP was merged)
[06:45] <RAOF> alf: We'll need something more generic later, because we'll also need to handle input hotplug & discovery, which I don't *think* the code currently does
[06:46] <alf> RAOF: VideoDevices is just the interface the graphics subsystem cares about, which will be implemented with udev. I guess the input subsystem can have a similar interface, again implemented with udev
[06:46] <RAOF>  Yeah
[06:47] <didrocks> tvoss: ah, more interesting: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5842616/
[06:47] <didrocks> -Werror=unused-local-typedefs
[06:48] <didrocks> so those files including gmock.h, it seems they get the gmock warning
[06:48] <didrocks> but I don't see the difference with the inline version, it should first build gmock
[06:49] <didrocks> with -Werror disable
[06:49] <didrocks> and then, just link to the .o files?
[06:49] <RAOF> But it can't just link to the .o files? It needs to parse the headers anyway.
[06:50] <dholbach> good morning
[06:50] <didrocks> RAOF: I would think he would do that
[06:50] <didrocks> hey dholbach
[06:50] <didrocks> they are built again: gmock-all.cc.o
[06:50] <dholbach> hey didrocks
[06:52] <tvoss> didrocks, the typedef is in the header, so if we reenable -Werror, we bail out: https://code.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz/compiz.fix_1185719/+merge/167474
[06:52] <RAOF> RAOF: Looks good. I'll udev-wrapper-ify it and fold in the device probing?
[06:52] <RAOF> alf ^^^
[06:52] <tvoss> lol
[06:53] <alf> RAOF: sure
[06:54] <didrocks> tvoss: but why don't we have that with the internal gmock then?
[06:54] <tvoss> didrocks, it might well be that the typedefs changed, let me check
[06:54] <didrocks> ah, you are not using 1.6?
[06:56] <tvoss> didrocks, checking ...
[06:57]  * RAOF wonders why his laptop has suddenly hit the thermal trip point.
[07:00] <tvoss> didrocks, mir's internal gmock version has the typedefs only in include/gmock/gmock-generated-function-mockers.h
[07:01] <tvoss> didrocks, and they are not even defined, as the compiler bails out anyways when that point is reached
[07:02] <didrocks> tvoss: yeah, you're right
[07:03] <didrocks> hum
[07:03] <didrocks> tvoss: I'm not fan or disabling -Werror for everything under tests, but do you have any other idea?
[07:04] <tvoss> didrocks, we could explicitly set -Wno-unused-local-typedefs
[07:05] <tvoss> didrocks, to be a bit more subtle
[07:05] <RAOF> Or -Wno-error=unused-local-typedefs
[07:05] <didrocks> (basically, I guess everything in include/test/mir_test/)
[07:05] <didrocks> or globally?
[07:05] <didrocks> it still enables to cleanswap if needed for the rest of the case
[07:05] <didrocks> code*
[07:06] <tvoss> didrocks, I would do it for everything under tests/
[07:06] <tvoss> RAOF, ^, thoughts?
[07:06] <didrocks> (I agree)
[07:07] <RAOF> I'd push -Wno-error=unused-local-typedefs for everything under tests
[07:07] <didrocks> ok, we all agree then
[07:07] <tvoss> \o/
[07:07]  * didrocks does and rebuild :)
[07:07]  * RAOF would also like to push -Wno-error=deprecated for everything under tests, too, so that they build on recent clang
[07:07]  * tvoss grabs another coffee
[07:07] <didrocks> RAOF: can add :)
[07:07]  * didrocks still at first mug
[07:08] <RAOF> Although glib might be fixed before g++ hits that particular snag.
[07:11] <RAOF> And while we're at it, why not merge https://code.launchpad.net/~raof/mir/fix-clanger/+merge/172956 so *everything* works when built with clang!
[07:23] <tvoss> didrocks, still building?
[07:25] <didrocks> tvoss: still building, so hope :)
[07:25]  * tvoss crosses fingers
[07:34] <didrocks> tvoss: /tmp/googlemockification/build-area/mir-0.0.6/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/bin/unit-tests: symbol lookup error: /tmp/googlemockification/build-area/mir-0.0.6/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/bin/unit-tests: undefined symbol: eglCreateImageKHR
[07:34] <tvoss> RAOF, ^
[07:34] <RAOF> Not linking to libEGL
[07:35] <RAOF> Actually, that might be our bug. eglCreateImageKHR isn't actually a part of the EGL exported symbols, is it?
[07:36] <tvoss> RAOF, I wouldn't think so
[07:37] <alf> tvoss: didrocks: Some time ago we updated the internal gmock version to svn r432 to avoid all these problems... now we are essentially reverting to 1.6...
[07:37] <tvoss> alf, ah, thanks for the hint
[07:38] <tvoss> didrocks, I thought we would pull in the latest and greatest from tip?
[07:40] <didrocks> tvoss: can you point me again to the patches to add?
[07:40]  * didrocks cleans to be override meanwhile
[07:40] <didrocks> overridable
[07:43] <duflu> robert_ancell: Sorry, Telstra started playing with my phone line this morning and just finished (without fixing anything)
[07:44] <tvoss> didrocks, r437 is latest according to googlemock svn. How do I generate patches against the currently released version? or is a zipped svn-export fine for you?
[07:44] <alf> didrocks: can we just pull in the latest trunk for gmock? gmock 1.6.0 was published over 2 years ago, and a lot has changed (include proper c++11 and recent g++/clang support) since then
[07:45] <didrocks> tvoss: no, we need to manually cherry-pick patches (or better, just the patch we need)
[07:45] <didrocks> for latest update, we can as well just create a tarball
[07:46] <didrocks> and have google-mock 1.6+svn<rev>
[07:46] <tvoss> didrocks, okay, so that is a +1 on svn-export + tar gz?
[07:46] <didrocks> tvoss: see when I told you that maintaining components are not light :)
[07:46] <didrocks> yep
[07:46]  * didrocks fights with cmake meanwhile
[07:49] <tvoss> didrocks, so I can just send you the tar.gz now?
[07:51] <tvoss> didrocks, sent
[07:52] <didrocks> tvoss: thanks, will update shortly
[07:52] <didrocks> ok, cmakeries done
[07:52] <didrocks> now back to gmock
[07:52] <tvoss> didrocks, sent you the tar.gz
[07:54] <didrocks> ok, patches don't apply now, let's see
[07:55] <robert_ancell> duflu, how nice of them!
[08:00] <alf> alan_g: Yesterday, IIRC, you mentioned something about a crash while running unit-tests. See if https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/mir/fix-mock-drmgetbusid-race/+merge/172964 fixes it for you.
[08:05] <tvoss> didrocks, still building mir? :)
[08:05] <didrocks> tvoss: I'm fixing google-mock first :p
[08:05] <didrocks> tvoss: the snapshot doesn't build as is
[08:05] <tvoss> didrocks, ?
[08:05] <didrocks> tvoss: needing to reapply patches and so on…
[08:11]  * didrocks wonders how seriously doko tested his upgrade…
[08:16] <didrocks> tvoss: ok, rebuilding Mir now
[08:17] <tvoss> didrocks, awesome
[08:18] <alan_g> alf: sure (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1197408)
[08:18] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1197408 in Mir "unit-tests core unless LD_PRELOAD=libumockdev-preload.so is set" [Medium,New]
[08:18] <duflu> RAOF: Any luck with the GL crashes?
[08:19] <didrocks> tvoss: waow, latest snapshot has a lot of failures
[08:19] <tvoss> didrocks, ?
[08:19] <didrocks> tvoss: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5842794/
[08:20] <didrocks> should be a missing } somewhere
[08:21] <RAOF> duflu: Got a very plausible cause, not yet fixed.
[08:22] <duflu> Cool. That's something
[08:23]  * RAOF updates the bug.
[08:25] <tvoss> didrocks, might be one of the distro patches
[08:25] <tvoss> a simple test executable builds fine locally
[08:25] <didrocks> tvoss: no, the only one I kept is a python path
[08:26] <didrocks> tvoss: want the deb?
[08:26] <tvoss> didrocks, ah, I know: I'm pretty sure the GTEST_EXCLUSIVE_LOCK_REQUIRED_ is not defined by the gtest version in the archive
[08:26] <didrocks> tvoss: ah, that's a nice point and will explain with gmock is working :)
[08:26] <didrocks> why*
[08:26] <didrocks> as it's using its internal gtests
[08:27] <tvoss> didrocks, you sure?
[08:28] <didrocks> tvoss: from CMake, yeah, gmock source is using its internal one, but once installed, it's using the system one
[08:28] <didrocks> so what you are telling makes sense
[08:28] <alf> alan_g: it's a different problem then (not related to LD_PRELOAD missing or not)
[08:29] <alan_g> alf: Maybe it is the same problem(!) - as I've just tried it an see no crash
[08:29] <alan_g> *and
[08:31] <robert_ancell> alf, ah, the crash is because KMSOutput::size() assumes there is at least one mode - is it worth making Mir handle there not being a mode (i.e. is that possible?) or should I mock the mode (which is what causes the crtc error)
[08:32] <alf> alan_g: It's a race condition, so perhaps it happened to you when you tried without LD_PRELOAD, and didn't occur when trying with LD_PRELOAD, by chance (or by LD_PRELOAD changin some timings)
[08:34] <alf> robert_ancell: I would say just mock the mode for now, the  KMSOutput requires a bit more thought
[08:34] <alf> robert_ancell: the "KMSOutput change"
[08:42] <didrocks> tvoss: I'm a little bit uneasy with updating gtests
[08:43] <didrocks> seeing the numbers of build-deps
[08:47] <tvoss> didrocks, looking
[08:48] <tvoss> didrocks, can we offer a testing package?
[08:48] <didrocks> tvoss: what do you mean?
[08:49] <didrocks> tvoss: you want the .deb for testing the new google-mock & gtest?
[08:49] <tvoss> didrocks, pulling in the latest gtest, building a test package, asking people to check?
[08:49] <didrocks> tvoss: who are people? :)
[08:49] <tvoss> didrocks, the people responsible for the reverse-build-dependencies
[08:49] <didrocks> tvoss: we don't have responsible maintainers in ubuntu
[08:49] <didrocks> so I doubt anyone will check the reverse deps
[08:50] <didrocks> and for indicator-* & co, it's us, so same people having to do all the work :p
[08:51] <tvoss> didrocks, okay, so what's a good way forward here?
[08:51] <didrocks> tvoss: TBH, I don't know, maybe just identifying the patches you need from 1.6 to latest gmock
[08:51] <didrocks> to build with Mir
[08:52] <didrocks> and only include those
[08:52] <tvoss> didrocks, hmmm, that does not solve the problem as I'm pretty sure that we will need said macro in gtest
[08:53] <tvoss> didrocks, why do we install gmock btw?
[08:53] <tvoss> didrocks, why don't we just put it in /usr/src?
[08:53] <didrocks> what do you mean?
[08:53] <didrocks> that's what we are doing
[08:54] <didrocks> maybe we can ship gtests in gmock
[08:54] <didrocks> so that it's going to use that synced version
[08:54] <tvoss> didrocks, we can, gtest is contained within gmock
[08:54] <didrocks> (it's a bad hack, but still better than nothing)
[08:54] <didrocks> yep
[08:54] <didrocks> that's why I'm proposing that :)
[08:54] <tvoss> didrocks, why can't we do both? gtest and gmock in /usr/src?
[08:54] <didrocks> tvoss: gtest is also in /usr/src/
[08:55] <didrocks> it's just out of sync with gmock if we push the latest I guess
[08:55] <tvoss> didrocks, I'm thinking about the situation where someone only wants to use gtest
[08:55] <didrocks> not following you, we do have gtests as well
[08:55] <didrocks> separated
[08:55] <didrocks> this is the whole issue
[08:56] <didrocks> to be able to upgrade that one, but seeing the number of build-deps…
[08:56] <tvoss> okay, so my proposal is: let's have /usr/src/gtest _and_ /usr/src/gmock, with gmock containing a gtest version, too
[08:56] <didrocks> tvoss: that's exactly what I'm proposing :)
[08:56] <tvoss> didrocks, +1 then
[08:56] <tvoss> didrocks, which ties gmock to its internal gtest versoin, all is good :)
[08:57] <didrocks> tvoss: I wonder what's happening with all those gtest includes though
[08:57] <tvoss> didrocks, good question
[08:57] <didrocks> I think we need to hack around the paths so that everytime we use gmock, we check for internal gtest
[08:57] <didrocks> if not using gmock, use the system gtest
[09:00] <tvoss> didrocks, I would rather say: if you use gmock, don't use gtest. Is a policy sufficient here?
[09:00] <didrocks> tvoss: hum, you are using both in mir :)
[09:00] <didrocks> same with unity and so on
[09:01] <didrocks> $ grep -r gtest tests/ | grep include | wc -l
[09:01] <didrocks> 163
[09:01] <didrocks> in Mir
[09:03] <tvoss> didrocks, using might be the wrong term: if you do add_subdirectory(/usr/src/gmock) don't do add_subdirectory(/usr/src/gtest)
[09:04] <didrocks> tvoss: ah, right, agreed
[09:04] <didrocks> tvoss: I hope that all build-deps for google-mock will still build with newer gtest
[09:23] <didrocks> tvoss: ok, so at least, not the same error
[09:23] <didrocks> tvoss: but back to /tmp/googlemockification/build-area/mir-0.0.6/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/bin/unit-tests: symbol lookup error: /tmp/googlemockification/build-area/mir-0.0.6/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/bin/unit-tests: undefined symbol: eglCreateImageKHR
[09:23] <didrocks> (so it seems 1.6 was enough? :p)
[09:23] <tvoss> alf, ^?
[09:29] <alf> didrocks: @1.6 was enough, our experience with 1.6 was that we needed to disable warnings/errors for it to build properly with our code, svn version could work mostly ok without disabling stuff
[09:32] <alf> tvoss: didrocks: @eglCreateImageKHR, I have never seen this error before... we are not using eglCreateImageKHR directly, we are getting it as an EGL extension function pointer
[09:33] <didrocks> tvoss: alf: if we can keep 1.6 for now, I would be in favor of that
[09:38] <alf> didrocks: 1.6 is ancient... the policy of prefering released versions doesn't work well with gmock and other projects that take so long to publish.
[09:38] <didrocks> alf: yeah, but did you follow the discussion about gtests?
[09:39] <didrocks> alf: the only way for us would be to ack around and ship gtests with gmock, I'm fine with that, but at least, if it fixes anything and if upstream can help fixing the new issues in all build-deps
[09:41] <didrocks> alf: however, I do confirm that we don't need to hack around -Werror
[09:58] <didrocks> tvoss: any idea of this eglCreateImageKHR?
[09:59] <didrocks> I've ported location-service meanwhile
[10:05] <tvoss> didrocks, mind pastebining the build log?
[10:05] <tvoss> didrocks, thx for porting location service
[10:06] <didrocks> tvoss: libusermetrics failed though :/
[10:06] <tvoss> didrocks, why is that?
[10:06] <didrocks> tvoss: build logs for Mir: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843027/
[10:07] <didrocks> tvoss: libusermetrics: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843029/
[10:08] <didrocks> we can think of some changes in gmock and gtests
[10:08] <didrocks> but all those undefined reference make me think the issue is somewhere else
[10:09] <tvoss> didrocks, it does not link against gtest
[10:09] <didrocks> tvoss: yeah, just came to the same conclusion
[10:16] <didrocks> tvoss: ok, libusermetrics fixed
[10:18] <tvoss> alf, ping
[10:19] <tvoss> didrocks, I think I have the issue with the missing symbol
[10:19] <didrocks> ah?
[10:20] <tvoss> tests/unit-tests/graphics/test_graphics_platform.cpp returns eglCreateImageKHR
[10:22] <alf> tvoss: pong
[10:23] <tvoss> alf, in tests/unit-tests/graphics/test_graphics_platform.cpp, we have got a free eglCreateImageKHR
[10:23] <tvoss> that triggers the missing symbol issue
[10:24] <alf> tvoss: ok, checking
[10:25] <alf> tvoss: ok, easy fix, will push shortly
[10:25] <tvoss> didrocks, in test_graphics_platform.cpp, lines 72 - 77
[10:25] <tvoss> alf, ^, removing those lines should fix the issue
[10:26] <alf> tvoss: yes, the right version of this code is already in MockEGL
[10:26] <tvoss> alf, yup :)
[10:26] <tvoss> didrocks, ^
[10:27] <alf> tvoss: so do you want me to submit the fix or do it another way?
[10:27] <tvoss> alf, might be a good idea if didrocks just adds it to his changes
[10:28] <alf> tvoss: fine with me
[10:28] <alf> didrocks: actually lines 70-77, we don't need the typedef anymore
[10:31] <didrocks> ok
[10:31] <didrocks> let me try that
[10:44] <didrocks> tvoss: some segfault in tests, but it seems to be libGLESv2.so related: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843104/
[10:49] <tvoss> didrocks, mind running the tests manually in the build directory with ctest -V?
[10:50] <didrocks> tvoss: here we go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843116/
[10:55] <tvoss> didrocks, okay, that did not give me the information I was after :)
[10:55] <tvoss> didrocks, gdb to the rescue then: in the build-dir: gdb bin/unit-tests
[11:00] <didrocks> tvoss: sorry, I'm cleaning location-service meanwhile :)
[11:00] <didrocks> tvoss: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843140/
[11:01] <tvoss> alf, this looks like soemthing for you: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843140/
[11:04] <didrocks> tvoss: mind having a quick look? https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/location-service/clean-location-service-pkg/+merge/173003
[11:08] <alf> didrocks: is the packaging being run on the phone?
[11:08] <didrocks> alf: no, I'm on my desktop here
[11:08] <didrocks> (no pbuilder, just saucy)
[11:09] <alf> didrocks: tvoss: because on error message looks strange "linker.c:1095| ERROR: Library '/system/lib/libGLESv2.so' not found"
[11:09] <hikiko> I have a problem with mir trunk
[11:10] <hikiko> I run it (intel i9650)
[11:10] <didrocks> alf: yep, I agree
[11:10] <hikiko> and I can't switch to tty
[11:10] <hikiko> even if I kill mir
[11:10] <hikiko> everything is frozen
[11:10] <hikiko> and I have to reboot
[11:10] <hikiko> does anyone has the problem?
[11:11] <hikiko> also I see something different in my laptop screen and in my external monitor
[11:11] <alf> hikiko: is that with pure mir trunk, or does it contain any other changes?
[11:11] <hikiko> pure mir trunk alan_g
[11:11] <hikiko> alf sorry
[11:12] <hikiko> I first had the problem in my branch after merge to trunk but then I compiled trunk itself (fresh clean download and compile)
[11:12] <hikiko> and got the same error
[11:12] <alf> hikiko: ok, let me try... this usually means that something crashes in mir and leaves the VT in a strange state not being able to VT switch
[11:13] <hikiko> thank you alf
[11:14] <alf> hikiko: does it happen with e.g. render_surfaces ?
[11:14] <hikiko> no alf I only start the server
[11:14] <hikiko> nothing else
[11:14] <hikiko> mir_demo_server as root
[11:15] <hikiko> it crashes after a few seconds from what I see when I ssh
[11:16] <hikiko> so it's probably the crash that causes that
[11:19] <alf> hikiko: I can't recreate this locally, everything works fine for me. Can you get a backtrace?
[11:22] <hikiko> let me try
[11:26] <hikiko> crashed but I can't get the bt from gdb I can't switch vt... I ll try to start gdb inside screen in the next reboot and get its output with ssh
[11:27] <didrocks> seb128: seems tvoss isn't around, do you mind acking https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/location-service/clean-location-service-pkg/+merge/173003 please?
[11:28] <didrocks> alf: ok, google-mock set into the pbuilder env, now running mir inside that build env
[11:30] <seb128> didrocks, why do you ned the --fail-missing on the dh line if you override dh_install and have it there already?
[11:30] <didrocks> seb128: I added first to the dh line, then added the override
[11:30] <didrocks> seb128: so had to repeat it
[11:30] <didrocks> but if one day we remove the override, we'll still have --fail-missing
[11:31] <seb128> didrocks, k, wfm, acked
[11:31] <didrocks> (here, the override was removed and fail-missing then skipped)
[11:31] <didrocks> and I noticed all those beautiful docs not installed!
[11:31] <didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
[11:31] <seb128> didrocks, you need to change the MR status, I'm not in the right team
[11:31] <didrocks> seb128: thanks! done
[11:31] <seb128> yw ;-)
[11:32]  * didrocks crosses fingers that mir build will pass
[11:32] <didrocks> then, on the list for updating google-mock "only" unity and nux
[11:32] <didrocks> I'll let that to bregma's team I guess :p
[11:53] <didrocks> tvoss: alf: all tests pass for Mir in a pbuilder
[11:53] <didrocks> so I think I've something local triggering that
[11:53]  * didrocks will do a MP
[12:09] <didrocks> alf: tvoss: (failing right now because of google-mock version of course): https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/mir/use-system-googlemock/+merge/173008
[12:10] <tvoss> didrocks, awesome
[12:11] <alf> tvoss: didrocks: just remember that to support g++-4.7 we need another fix that is not upstream yet, do we care?
[12:11] <alf> tvoss: didrocks: (fix in gmock)
[12:12] <didrocks> alf: oh, it's needed even with latest snapshot?
[12:12] <alf> didrocks: yes
[12:12] <didrocks> (as everything built fine…)
[12:13] <alf> didrocks: everything works with g++-4.8
[12:13] <didrocks> alf: do you mind pastebining it right now? I should have it in my logs but will help if you have it handy
[12:19] <alf> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843334/ it's rev 750.1.5 in trunk
[12:21] <didrocks> alf: ok, getting it
[12:42] <didrocks> alf: your patch results in http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843397/
[12:43] <alf> didrocks: it's not compiled in C++11 mode :/
[12:44] <didrocks> alf: any hint for that?
[12:45] <alf> didrocks: the problem is that we can't provide c++11 mode headers, since not all gmock users want to use c++11 :/
[12:45] <didrocks> alf: yep
[12:45] <didrocks> alf: so removing the patch for now I guess
[12:46] <alf> didrocks: unless you are ok with conditional compilation "if c++11" ...
[12:46] <alf> didrocks: I mean defines in the header
[12:47] <tvoss> didrocks, alf why don't we add a NOEXCEPT macro?
[12:47] <didrocks> alf: if you provide a patch for it, I'm fine, but you have to repatch all build-deps for it (if they intented to have if c++11)
[12:47] <arsson> Is there any livecd with xmir working on it?
[12:47] <tvoss> arsson, not yet, but some people have been asking for it
[12:47] <didrocks> tvoss: ok, any idea when unity and nux will be ported? then, we can flip the switch for all projects
[12:48] <alf> didrocks: no, that's only in the gmock headers, like the NOEXCEPT macro tvoss mentioned
[12:48] <tvoss> alf, +1
[12:48] <didrocks> alf: that's fine with me, just send the patch and I'll integrate it
[12:48] <didrocks> tvoss: I can provide the binaries in a ppa if needed
[12:49] <tvoss> didrocks, for the new gmock?
[12:49] <tvoss> didrocks, I was more or less thinking about when I should review your mp on Mir :)
[12:50] <didrocks> tvoss: it's pushed, see the hilight 50 minutes ago
[12:50] <didrocks> didrocks | alf: tvoss: (failing right now because of google-mock version of course):
[12:50] <didrocks>          | https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/mir/use-system-googlemock/+merge/173008
[12:50] <didrocks> tvoss: so yeah, need unity and nux for new gmock
[12:51] <didrocks> I've handled the rest I guess
[12:54] <tvoss> didrocks, ack
[12:54] <tvoss> alan_g|lunch, did the enable_test option land, yet?
[12:55] <didrocks> tvoss: I still don't have any answer on who will do unity/nux :p
[12:55] <didrocks> alf: give me the patch with #define once you have it, I'll push gmock then to a ppa
[12:57] <tvoss> didrocks, can look into it
[12:57] <didrocks> tvoss: I have a start for the unity branch if you want, but I really need to switch to unity8 daily builds
[12:58] <didrocks> otherwise Saviq will kill me :p
[12:58] <tvoss> didrocks, fair. The ppa with the new gmock version would be great though
[12:58] <didrocks> tvoss: let me update without alf's patch for now
[12:58] <tvoss> didrocks, ack
[13:03] <alan_g> tvoss: not yet - I need some cmake help with it. https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/fix-1196987/+merge/172798/comments/386707
[13:05] <didrocks> tvoss: unity branch is at lp:~didrocks/unity/new-gmock and new gmock without alf's patch is building at https://launchpad.net/~didrocks/+archive/ppa
[13:06] <tvoss> didrocks, ack
[13:12] <tvoss> didrocks, hmmm, seems like we need to add pkg-config as a build-dep
[13:12] <tvoss> didrocks, does that make sense?
[13:13] <tvoss> alan_g, can you try to add pkg-config to the build-deps in debian/control?
[13:14] <alan_g> tvoss: yes (after a context switch)
[13:22] <alan_g> tvoss: I don't think that makes sense - we're talking cross build here (and that uses tools/setup-partial-armhf-chroot.sh to set things up. Not debian/control)
[13:25] <alf> didrocks: tvoss: The updated fix http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843511/
[13:26] <alf> didrocks: let me prefix the macro to avoid collisions...
[13:27] <alan_g> tvoss: doesn't work (nor does adding it to tools/setup-partial-armhf-chroot.sh)
[13:28] <alf> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5843518/
[13:29] <tvoss> alan_g, okay ... I was confused
[13:31] <alan_g> tvoss: AFAICS the problem is that pkg_check_modules() checks the host, not the chroot
[13:33] <tvoss> alan_g, as far as I can tell, there is a package list in the partial chroot setup
[13:34] <alan_g> tvoss: yeah, but if I install libmockdev in the host, then pkg_check_modules() is happy in the chroot, and if I remove it from the host pkg_check_modules() fails in the chroot.
[13:35]  * alan_g is confused
[13:36] <alan_g> Hence asking for help before getting bogged down in learning the details
[13:40] <tvoss> alan_g, my best guess would be that you need to add it to PACKAGES_ALL
[13:49] <tvoss> alan_g, any luck with that?
[13:50] <alan_g> tvoss: there's no libumockdev-dev..._all.deb, so it doesn't work - but I'm not following your thinking
[13:50] <tvoss> alan_g, there is a set of packages that gets installed in the chroot in the setup script
[13:50] <tvoss> alan_g, umock dev is not mentioned there
[13:51] <alan_g> yes, and I've put libumockdev-dev into the PACKAGES_ARMHF list
[13:51] <alan_g> That (sort of) works, as it gets installed
[13:51] <alan_g> But pkg_check_modules() doesn't find it
[13:52] <alan_g> pkg_check_modules() finds the one in the host system regardless of the chroot
[13:56] <tvoss> alan_g, what is the path to the chroot?
[13:56] <alan_g> /home/alan/display_server/mir/partial-armhf-chroot
[13:56] <tvoss> alan_g, might be that we need to adjust PKG_CONFIG_PATH
[14:04]  * ogra_ hopes that weird hacking you guys do above isnt supposed to be uploaded anywheer
[14:08] <alan_g> tvoss: that does it. \o/ (Now looking for the best place to set it)
[14:10] <didrocks> tvoss: I don't think we need pkg-config, we don't use it in my branch
[14:11] <tvoss> ogra_, it is :)
[14:12] <tvoss> alan_g, ack
[14:12] <ogra_> tvoss, ugh
[14:12] <tvoss> didrocks, I need to run some errands, will look at nux and unity when back
[14:12] <tvoss> ogra_, not entirely sure what hackery you mean?
[14:13] <ogra_> tvoss, cross building in the archive ?
[14:13] <ogra_> or is that only for local builds
[14:13] <tvoss> ogra_, not in the archive, on jenkins :)
[14:13] <tvoss> ogra_, and for local builds
[14:13] <ogra_> phew :)
[14:14] <tvoss> ogra_, no worries, how could we ever dare to propose such weird concpets?
[14:14] <ogra_> i know people are desparate to get faster builds ... the chatter above sounded scary :)
[14:14]  * ogra_ LOLs
[14:14] <ogra_> https://plus.google.com/117323436464400045874/posts/Zu8PkqTmnEN
[14:14] <ogra_> so he is testing Mir ... but all comments are about the wallpaper
[14:15] <tvoss> didrocks, would be great if we could sync up on package maintainers tomorrow
[14:15] <tvoss> ogra_, have seen ;)
[14:15] <tvoss> ogra_, I was tempted to write: that sunny spot in the middle, that's (x)mir land ;)
[14:15] <ogra_> LOl
[14:15] <didrocks> tvoss: sorry, not sure to understand? you mean package ownership?
[14:15] <tvoss> didrocks, yup
[14:15] <didrocks> sure
[15:53] <katie> racarr, hello
[15:56] <alan_g> katie: FWIW it appears to be a USA holiday
[15:56] <katie> alan_g, of course!
[15:56] <katie> alan_g, thanks for reminding me :)
[20:43] <ricmm> hey guys
[22:10] <robert_ancell> thomi, any luck with those infrastructure issues?
[22:16] <robert_ancell> "file:///usr/share/unity8/GreeterShell.qml:18:1: module "Ubuntu.Application" is not installed
[22:16] <robert_ancell>      import Ubuntu.Application 0.1 "
[22:24] <thomi> robert_ancell: for the mir_stress stuff? Yes, the solution is to ditch UTAH in favour of Otto to provision the machine. I feel like I"m getting closer
[22:35] <ricmm> so guys, mir is broken on armhf due to a test
[22:35] <ricmm> kinda need to to build so I can update mir in our image
[22:35] <ricmm> https://code.launchpad.net/~ricmm/mir/fix-android-registrar-test/+merge/173106
[22:36] <ricmm> if a merciful soul could take care of that review, I would appreciate it
[22:36] <ricmm> builds fine locally on my armhf devices
[22:43] <robert_ancell> ricmm, oh, the compiler fails on that?
[22:43] <ricmm> yea, because of unused result
[22:43] <ricmm> so might as well test the result
[22:43] <robert_ancell> yep
[22:43] <ricmm> that test only builds on armhf
[22:44] <robert_ancell> approved
[22:47] <ricmm> thanks
[23:38] <thomi> RAOF: ping?
[23:39] <RAOF> thomi: Pong.
[23:39] <thomi> RAOF: I'm fairly sure something in the mir-team/staging PPA is preventing unity 7 from starting, I get:
[23:39] <thomi> compiz: ../../../../../src/mesa/main/hash.c:164: _mesa_HashLookup_unlocked: Assertion `key' failed.
[23:40] <thomi> I wonder if you have any ideas what that could be?
[23:40] <RAOF> Well, that sounds suspiciously like mesa :)
[23:40] <RAOF> I'm currently updating, so I'll be able to reproduce for you soon, I guess.
[23:41] <thomi> RAOF: thanks, I need to go get some lunch soon, so I'll bug you when I get back I suppose :)


[08:53] <lotuspsychje> Fallen: seems like you were right, my bug got duped already :p https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1782485
[09:13] <lotuspsychje> for those who love, we have an rss bot @ #techrss with linux news 24/7 feel free to idle
[10:03] <Fallen> lotuspsychje: At least we have it tracked, thanks for bringing it up! I can ask how OS integration might fit in with plans for Thunderbird 114/115 and bring that one up as an example.
[11:10] <lotuspsychje> Fallen: thank you!
[13:19] <leftyfb> jeeze a 9 yo bug with no response
[13:43] <lotuspsychje> yeah its nuts right leftyfb
[13:44] <lotuspsychje> hence why my first reflex was to create a new one
[13:44] <lotuspsychje> i just wish its gonna get fixed, so we can implement your idea leftyfb


[00:00] <Safiyyah> pangolin
[00:00] <daftykins> ah ok
[00:01] <daftykins> should be a graphical way you can spot your external and mount it
[00:01] <daftykins> a pastebin of "sudo fdisk -l" to spot the flash drive will be handy too
[00:04] <Safiyyah> Firefox is freezing
[00:04] <Safiyyah> It's /dev/sdc1
[00:05] <Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359360/
[00:05] <Safiyyah2> sorry it's decided to work as long as I don't right click
[00:05] <Safiyyah2> (firefox I mean)
[00:06] <Safiyyah> Dobt I  just need the start up disk creator?
[00:06] <Safiyyah> Just select the file and do it?
[00:07] <daftykins> use dd
[00:08] <Safiyyah> do?
[00:08] <Safiyyah> Do?
[00:08] <daftykins> sudo dd if=/path/to/ISO of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
[00:09] <Safiyyah2> yes what is the path to my external?
[00:09] <daftykins> type "mount" and it might give some clues
[00:09] <daftykins> or df -h
[00:11] <Safiyyah2> okay I can't do cd /dev/sdb1
[00:11] <Safiyyah2> can I copy the files onto the desktop graphically?
[00:12] <Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359400/
[00:12] <daftykins> /media/Expansion Drive
[00:12] <daftykins> it's already mounted
[00:13] <daftykins> you can't copy things to the desktop 'cause the desktop has no space :D
[00:14] <Safiyyah> Cd /media /Expansion Drive also doesn't work
[00:15] <Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359426/
[00:16] <daftykins> because you have spaces
[00:16] <daftykins> that was a very bad name for a drive ;)
[00:16] <daftykins> use tab complete
[00:16] <diddledan> I thought ubuntu tracked upstream with firefox versions? i.e. new firefox gets bundled as an update in supported ubuntu
[00:16] <daftykins> e.g. "cd /media/E *tab*
[00:16] <Safiyyah2> anyway the directory is /media/Expansion Drive/Backup 2 October 2014/Downloads/xubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64
[00:16] <diddledan> just curio because I have 33 and mozilla have released 34 already
[00:17] <Safiyyah2> daftykins, we can change the name lol
[00:17] <diddledan> aah, I had stale apt cache
[00:17] <daftykins> one job at a time please ;)
[00:18] <Safiyyah2> :)
[00:22] <Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359484/
[00:22] <Safiyyah2> it's in Backup 2 October 2014/Downloads
[00:22] <Safiyyah2> same problem with the spaces but there is more than one file starting with Backup
[00:24] <daftykins> are you not ok using tabs to complete your paths still?
[00:24] <Safiyyah2> lol
[00:24] <Safiyyah2> yep
[00:24] <Safiyyah2> not okay
[00:24] <Safiyyah2> am sorry
[00:26] <daftykins> cd /media/Expansion\ Drive/Backup\ 2 *tab*
[00:26] <daftykins> ?
[00:27] <Safiyyah2> when I press tab
[00:27] <Safiyyah2> it just re-lists the directories
[00:27] <Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359524/
[00:27] <Safiyyah2> When I pressed tab it gave me a list
[00:29] <diddledan> don't add a space on the end after "2"
[00:29] <diddledan> type exactly ...."Backup\ 2[tab]"
[00:29] <diddledan> where [tab] is the tab button
[00:30] <Safiyyah2> okay we are in the directory
[00:31] <Safiyyah2> sorry about no getting it
[00:31] <Safiyyah2> am in!!!! now what.... something about dd?
[00:31] <Safiyyah2> excuse me but it's late and I can't spell
[00:33] <Safiyyah2> daftykins:  did you drop off to sleep at your desk
[00:33] <daftykins> nop
[00:34] <daftykins> i'm just gaming
[00:34] <daftykins> sudo dd if=/path/to/ISO of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
[00:34] <daftykins> would've been easier for you to scroll up :P
[00:34] <Safiyyah2> lol
[00:35] <Safiyyah2> brain died
[00:37] <daftykins> ;]
[00:40] <Safiyyah2> terminal is still at it
[00:40] <Safiyyah2> or it has hang
[00:40] <Safiyyah2> whichever one
[00:41] <Safiyyah2> daftykins:  here is the output http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359680/
[00:41] <daftykins> 271MB is way too tiny for an ISO
[00:43] <daftykins> i don't think that's a complete download
[00:43] <Safiyyah2> the download itself is  970 something
[00:43] <Safiyyah2> its complete.
[00:43] <Safiyyah2> I char1 summed it
[00:43] <daftykins> but the paste there says it wrote 270MB
[00:43] <Safiyyah2> the terminal didnt finish copying
[00:44] <Safiyyah2> let me rerun the command and exercise better patience
[00:44] <daftykins> oh yes you ctrl+C'd
[00:44] <daftykins> that's a BAD Safiyyah
[00:45] <daftykins> yo might be able to check progress with "sudo killall -USR1 dd" in a second terminal window
[01:00] <Safiyyah2> daftykins: didnt meant to I was trying to copy it into paste bin for you
[01:01] <Safiyyah2> cos I was wasnt sure it was hanging or not
[01:01] <Safiyyah2> anyway it has finished again
[01:01] <daftykins> ah i see
[01:03] <Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359943/
[01:03] <Safiyyah2> it finished
[01:03] <Safiyyah2> took it a minute
[01:04] <daftykins> 858 seconds!
[01:04] <Safiyyah2> lol
[01:04] <daftykins> that's one slow flash drive
[01:04] <Safiyyah2> well it can be dedicated to the job
[01:04] <Safiyyah2> and I won't miss it
[01:05] <Safiyyah2> right do we check the data first with char1sum or that's it?
[01:05] <Safiyyah2> Atleast we now have a USB
[01:06] <daftykins> just try booting it
[01:06] <Safiyyah2> cool
[01:06] <daftykins> and get that nasty CD/DVD out :>
[01:06] <Safiyyah2> lol
[01:06] <Safiyyah2> yes sir!!!!
[01:12] <safiyyah2> daftykins: am back
[01:12] <safiyyah2> my that loaded FAST!
[01:12] <daftykins> D:
[01:13] <daftykins> yesh, CD/DVD are just not even options to me nowadays ;) life is too short
[01:13] <safiyyah2> lol
[01:13] <safiyyah2> point clearly understood now!!!!! will always have a USB now
[01:13] <safiyyah2> right what now
[01:14] <safiyyah2> dmesg |tail?
[01:14] <safiyyah2> fdisk -l?
[01:15] <daftykins> well now we have a real version
[01:15] <daftykins> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit"
[01:15] <daftykins> oh and smartmontools
[01:15] <daftykins> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit smartmontools"
[01:15] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360080/
[01:16] <safiyyah2> done!
[01:16] <safiyyah2> It's like a different machine!!!
[01:16] <safiyyah2> wondering about the so called dead drive now
[01:17] <diddledan> o_O /dev/sdc1p1 ??
[01:17] <daftykins> yeah i don't even
[01:18] <daftykins> safiyyah2: "sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt"
[01:18] <diddledan> did you dd to sdc1 instead of sdc?
[01:18] <daftykins> wouldn't have booted if that were true
[01:19] <diddledan> how else would sdc1 contain a partition table?
[01:20] <safiyyah2> wasn't sdc1 the external drive?
[01:21] <safiyyah2> daftykins:  the terminal is working on that last command
[01:21] <daftykins> o0
[01:21] <safiyyah2> lol
[01:21] <diddledan> sdc1 is a partition on sdc. sdc is the external drive.
[01:22] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360123/
[01:22] <safiyyah2> Same story though
[01:22] <daftykins> less errors though
[01:22] <daftykins> that's a different output
[01:22] <diddledan> try fsck
[01:23] <safiyyah2> diddledan: am a novice
[01:23] <safiyyah2> need the whole command
[01:23] <safiyyah2> and am tired. brain isnt at its best
[01:23] <diddledan> fsck /dev/sda1
[01:24] <daftykins> ^
[01:25] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360151/
[01:26] <safiyyah2> I have gone to the bathroom for a few
[01:27] <daftykins> still a very unhappy disk
[01:27] <daftykins> diddledan: i don't even think attempting to pick a backup superblock is worth the hassle?
[01:27] <diddledan> nah, I've never had much luck with doing that anyway
[01:28] <daftykins> ah i got someone going again with one once in #ubuntu
[01:28] <daftykins> but then this thing only holds her OS + installed software, so might as well nuke it really
[01:28] <daftykins> doesn't resolve what made it go wonky mind
[01:29] <safiyyah2> okay am back
[01:29] <safiyyah2> is it possible there is nothing wrong with my other SSD?
[01:29] <safiyyah2> just an unhappy arrangement?
[01:30] <safiyyah2> and are you satisfied it's not the board?
[01:30] <daftykins> well you don't have anything else to test with
[01:30] <daftykins> we've been flying blind since the beginning
[01:31] <safiyyah2> but according t the messages doesn't it mean the Corsair is also dead?
[01:32] <daftykins> think of it like two people talking
[01:32] <daftykins> one of them has just had a stroke, we're trying to have a conversation
[01:32] <safiyyah2> so who has had the stroke
[01:32] <daftykins> how do we know which one has had the stroke? communication's still failing and that's our only point of reference
[01:32] <daftykins> lol
[01:32] <daftykins> WE CANT FIND OUT
[01:32] <safiyyah2> the Corsair or the SanDisk?
[01:32] <daftykins> because you only have one PC :P
[01:33] <safiyyah2> lol
[01:33] <diddledan> daftykins, ask the other guy what you would say was the way to certain death
[01:33] <diddledan> or is that a different riddle?
[01:33] <safiyyah2> why can't we replug the SanDisk and rerun the live USB?
[01:33] <daftykins> ;]
[01:33] <daftykins> what would be the point?
[01:34] <daftykins> there's only static data on that, not gonna find anything new out
[01:34] <safiyyah2> ah
[01:34] <safiyyah2> so now. Do I do a fresh install on the corsair?
[01:34] <safiyyah2> Or give up and buy a new SSD?
[01:35] <daftykins> yep could try a clean install, see if it will function
[01:35] <daftykins> that would be the very quickest approach
[01:35] <safiyyah2> yes but then die again
[01:35] <safiyyah2> in a few weeks
[01:35] <daftykins> maybe, but you have no other option
[01:36] <safiyyah2> until the new disk arrives?
[01:36] <daftykins> no you have no other option at all
[01:36] <safiyyah2> there is a third option..... just buy a new drive again
[01:36] <daftykins> since we can't know where the fault is without trying both those SSDs in another system
[01:36] <daftykins> nah that'd be foolish
[01:37] <safiyyah2> respectfully, I feel like this method makes me a sitting duck
[01:37] <safiyyah2> new SSD feels like I am taking my chances
[01:38] <daftykins> and it could still be a faulty motherboard so you'd be however much £ in the hole with no solution
[01:38] <safiyyah2> So basically just get the system going again and wait?
[01:38] <daftykins> yeah, run the install on the existing SSD right now
[01:38] <daftykins> see if it functions
[01:39] <daftykins> maybe it'll not even install without spamming errors
[01:39] <safiyyah2> I think the install will go through
[01:39] <diddledan> don't think, do
[01:39] <safiyyah2> okay, I will do that
[01:39] <safiyyah2> lol
[01:39] <safiyyah2> am still on the and chat on the phone
[01:40] <safiyyah2> closing this to insall
[01:48] <Safiyyah> Daftykins it say input out error on /dev/sda
[01:49] <daftykins> mmmhmm
[01:49] <Safiyyah> This is in the bit where you set the time zone
[01:49] <daftykins> i'd imagine "dmesg | tail" shows the kernel is screaming again
[01:50] <Safiyyah> Shall I run it?
[01:50] <daftykins> yarr
[01:53] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360367/
[01:54] <safiyyah2> daftykins:
[01:54] <daftykins> yep i'm lookin'
[01:54] <daftykins> is the install actually getting any further?
[01:55] <safiyyah2> it asked me if i want to ignore or continue
[01:56] <safiyyah2> left it like that
[01:56] <daftykins> hrmm
[01:56] <daftykins> ok so it's kinda paused
[01:56] <safiyyah2> yep
[01:56] <daftykins> i'd install smartmontools and try a "sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | pastebinit"
[01:56] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360457/
[01:57] <safiyyah2> daftykins:  this is mind boggling
[01:58] <daftykins> heh 600PB thing again
[01:58] <safiyyah2> lol
[02:00] <safiyyah2> so is it possible that this old drive is the fauty one.... not the new one?
[02:00] <daftykins> yeah these disks really need testing on another machine to know which end is at fault
[02:00] <daftykins> your machine obviously doesn't want anything to do with them anymore
[02:01] <safiyyah2> well right now only the 60gb corsair  is in
[02:01] <safiyyah2> lol
[02:01] <daftykins> you can swap, pull out your external too
[02:01] <daftykins> boot the flash drive with just the sandisk
[02:01] <safiyyah2> its a divorce
[02:01] <safiyyah2> okay brb
[02:01] <intrbiz> what is the machine? what SATA controller?
[02:02] <daftykins> old LGA775 board likely so maybe a P35 chipset or similar
[02:08] <safiyyah2> a back!!!
[02:09] <daftykins> D:
[02:10] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360602/
[02:10] <safiyyah2> daftykins: I still can't get over how quick it is
[02:10] <daftykins> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit smartmontools
[02:10] <daftykins> sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | pastebinit
[02:11] <safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360630/
[02:11] <daftykins> well well, that one seems to be playing ball
[02:11] <daftykins> so maybe it was the Corsair all along
[02:12] <safiyyah2> wow!!!!
[02:12] <safiyyah2> Oh wow!!!!
[02:13] <daftykins> so you could backup properly now
[02:13] <daftykins> the whole lot
[02:13] <daftykins> or clean install to the sandisk
[02:14] <safiyyah2> please dont laugh at my question, but remember HDD has jumpers. so you set one slave am wondering if  they both thought they were master?
[02:14] <daftykins> no such thing with SATA
[02:14] <daftykins> one device per cable, no such confusion :)
[02:14] <safiyyah2> okay
[02:15] <safiyyah2> well my home drive is in there if I can back it up in it's entirity am good
[02:15] <safiyyah2> I was avoiding a clean install because I had all the apps I wanted for the kids
[02:15] <safiyyah2> can't remember half of them now
[02:15] <safiyyah2> and the damned printer
[02:15] <daftykins> mmhmm
[02:15] <safiyyah2> never mind will just start again
[02:15] <daftykins> and the fun with X
[02:15] <safiyyah2> yes
[02:16] <safiyyah2> I had JUST JUST right
[02:16] <daftykins> meh, shit happens :P
[02:16] <safiyyah2> lol
[02:16] <daftykins> or the version i quite like, life happens
[02:16] <safiyyah2> okay so I had the idea that having a seperate home drive was best
[02:16] <safiyyah2> that blew up in my face
[02:17] <safiyyah2> is there any point buying a new, root drive?
[02:17] <daftykins> it's always better having multiple disks
[02:17] <safiyyah2> shouldn't I just partition the one drive and be over it?
[02:17] <daftykins> i wouldn't have gone pure SSD though personally
[02:18] <safiyyah2> even after this bad experience?
[02:18] <daftykins> your failure has had nothing to do with how many disks you have
[02:18] <daftykins> :)
[02:18] <daftykins> but let's not think too far ahead... you still need to confirm whether this one is going to operate ok
[02:18] <safiyyah2> lol my HDD died 2 years ago... could only afford a 60GB SSD and then now I wanted more space so got another SSD
[02:18] <safiyyah2> happened unintentionally
[02:19] <daftykins> you could've had 2TB mechanical for £60
[02:19] <daftykins> :>
[02:19] <daftykins> sooo.... backup or install?
[02:19] <daftykins> also it's gone 2am :D
[02:19] <safiyyah2> someone on herewas banging on about stability of SSD
[02:19] <daftykins> well you bought some pretty shit brands :P
[02:19] <safiyyah2> lol
[02:19] <safiyyah2> SanDisk is shit?
[02:20] <daftykins> only SSDs i've seen from them have been terrible slow performers
[02:20] <safiyyah2> lol
[02:20] <safiyyah2> well you know I have amazon prime
[02:21] <safiyyah2> and I dont really need a whole TB
[02:21] <safiyyah2> I can order and it will be here tomorrow
[02:22] <m0nkey_> i got some cheap ass sandisk, performance is good on it
[02:22] <daftykins> well, you know how useful one example is? ;)
[02:22] <safiyyah2> okay do I get a second drive or not?
[02:23] <daftykins> so i take it you're not wanting to install to this sandisk? :P
[02:23] <safiyyah2> i dont mind
[02:23] <safiyyah2> just wondering if I am buying a drive or not
[02:23] <daftykins> not until you know if this one will play along
[02:23] <safiyyah2> and also, I need the firefox bookmarks as well before we wipe it
[02:23] <safiyyah2> I forgot that yesterday
[02:24] <safiyyah2> also, do I set a /home partion or leave it to run as default?
[02:24] <daftykins> lets see if it'll mount
[02:25] <daftykins> "sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt"
[02:25] <safiyyah2> yes it's mounted
[02:25] <daftykins> so you could copy the whole lot onto your external
[02:26] <safiyyah2> dont need the whole 170gb of data
[02:26] <safiyyah2> I already backed up a month ago
[02:26] <daftykins> ah
[02:26] <safiyyah2> I already took the files I needed
[02:26] <daftykins> so just bookmarks then?
[02:26] <safiyyah2> yes please
[02:27] <daftykins> i don't have a clue where those are stored
[02:27] <daftykins> maybe .config/mozilla/
[02:27] <daftykins> total guess
[02:27] <safiyyah2> in the hidden folder in /home
[02:27] <daftykins> yeah there are multiple places these days though
[02:27] <safiyyah2> hmmm
[02:28] <daftykins>  /home/.mozilla might be one
[02:29] <safiyyah2> I need a superuser nautilus or nemo
[02:29] <daftykins> must you do things GUI ;_;
[02:29] <daftykins> ho-hum :P
[02:30] <safiyyah2> lol
[02:30] <safiyyah2> well its the quickest way to locate the actual file
[02:30] <daftykins> for some perhaps :>
[02:30] <daftykins> well, whichever method works
[02:30] <daftykins> i think xubuntu gives a run dialogue with alt+F2? might have to install gksu though
[02:31] <safiyyah2> i installed gksu
[02:31] <safiyyah2> but I think there is no nautilus?
[02:31] <daftykins> nah i think it's thunar on xu
[02:31] <safiyyah2> :)
[02:32] <safiyyah2> I dont know why I was thinking it was nemo
[02:32] <daftykins> i think that's an alternative
[02:34] <safiyyah2> Okay I got them
[02:34] <safiyyah2> am ready!
[02:34] <safiyyah2> so am I making a /home partition
[02:34] <safiyyah2> The OS needs only about 15gb right?
[02:35] <daftykins> can do, yeah... or you could install all as one, then if it works... when you buy another disk you can just move your /home onto there
[02:36] <safiyyah2> are you saying you can't move your /home if you partition the drive?
[02:36] <daftykins> you could, but then you'd have to mess around with resizing / to get it to fill that disk again
[02:37] <daftykins> basically, i'm saying install the OS to test if it works
[02:37] <daftykins> so there's no point planning for forever, right now
[02:37] <safiyyah2> okay
[02:37] <safiyyah2> thanks for pointing that out
[02:37] <daftykins> ;)
[02:37] <safiyyah2> getting on with the install
[02:37] <safiyyah2> back on the phone
[02:50] <daftykins> is it done yet!?
[02:59]  * daftykins nudges Safiyyah
[02:59] <Safiyyah> No
[03:00] <daftykins> whaaaaat
[03:00] <daftykins> USB to SSD installs are meant to be lightning quick :>
[03:00] <Safiyyah> It is about  90‰ according to the strip that goes across
[03:01] <Safiyyah> Remember you said it was shit and slow maybe it heard you hehe
[03:01] <daftykins> 8D
[03:03] <Safiyyah> It is still quicker than.  The standard Ubuntu
[03:03] <Safiyyah> That took me ages
[03:03] <Safiyyah> And then it was bloated.  That's why I  switched to Xubuntu
[03:04] <daftykins> it is a bit
[03:04] <daftykins> but you are using a fairly old machine too :>
[03:07] <Safiyyah2> daftykins all done
[03:07] <Safiyyah2> and am in it now. all booted up
[03:08] <Safiyyah2> Installing updates
[03:09] <daftykins> yay
[03:09] <Safiyyah> Is there a next step....  Other than actually setting the system up...
[03:10] <Safiyyah> We can't dmesg it now can we?
[03:10] <daftykins> nah just watch dmesg | tail whilst installing updates, could be useful
[03:10] <Safiyyah> Okay just leave it running on the terminal
[03:10] <Safiyyah> ?
[03:10] <daftykins> nah it's a one time command
[03:12] <Safiyyah2> Where is the pipe key on the UK keyboard?
[03:12] <Safiyyah2> I have a multi-lingual keyboard
[03:12] <Safiyyah2> and I always set it to UK but that means some keys don't follow
[03:13] <daftykins> left shift and the \ beside it
[03:13] <daftykins> |||
[03:14] <Safiyyah2> nope nothing there
[03:14] <Safiyyah2> Unless I leave it as US
[03:14] <Safiyyah2> but then there won't be a £ sign
[03:15] <Safiyyah2> 40% of update done
[03:25] <Safiyyah2_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9361314/
[03:25] <Safiyyah2_> daftykins:  output of dmesg
[03:27] <daftykins> ah usual wrong screen res fun
[03:27] <daftykins> nothing much going on yep
[03:28] <Safiyyah2_> will sort out the resolution tomorrow
[03:29] <Safiyyah2_> am knackered
[03:29] <Safiyyah2_> it seems happy?
[03:29] <daftykins> could well be
[03:29] <Safiyyah2_> you are good at avoiding difinitive answers
[03:29] <daftykins> so time to return the corsair instead and maybe get something else
[03:30] <daftykins> so is your system
[03:30] <Safiyyah2_> lol Corsair two years old
[03:30] <Safiyyah2_> i think it's past warranty
[03:31] <Safiyyah2_> I will keep my money thanks
[03:31] <daftykins> wouldn't hurt to check
[03:31] <Safiyyah2_> lol
[03:31] <Safiyyah2_> will check with them.
[03:31] <daftykins> might just need a serial number from it put into their website
[03:31] <Safiyyah2_> am so. so . sooooooo grateful
[03:32] <Safiyyah2_> thank you so much
[03:32] <Safiyyah2_> atleast it's working again
[03:32] <Safiyyah2_> will sort the rest out in order of urgency
[03:32] <Safiyyah2_> lol
[03:32] <Safiyyah2_> so there is nothing wrong with my Sandisk drive?
[03:33] <daftykins> based on what has been done so far, it has been working
[03:33] <daftykins> but life isn't this black and white
[03:34] <Safiyyah2_> so cancel the return?
[03:34] <daftykins> for the time being, yep
[03:34] <Safiyyah2_> cool
[03:34] <daftykins> but it doesn't mean it's perfect
[03:34] <daftykins> you're after concrete answers which really don't happen in the hardware world
[03:34] <Safiyyah2_> off to bed. Still have to get up for the school run tomorrow and work
[03:35] <Safiyyah2_> I just want to know that as far as things stand, it's all sorted
[03:35] <Safiyyah2_> if it breaks again that's another issue
[03:35] <Safiyyah2_> but as of now, is it healthy?
[03:36] <daftykins> heh
[03:36] <daftykins> i don't want to comment any further, you're after things i can't provide
[03:37] <daftykins> just see how it goes
[03:37] <Safiyyah2_> lol
[03:37] <Safiyyah2_> you should be a politician
[03:37] <Safiyyah2_> lol
[03:37] <Safiyyah2_> night night
[07:03] <mapps> seesh
[07:03] <mapps> dont think i can save everyone
[07:04] <mapps> met a girl tonight thats got as many problems as me
[07:04] <mapps> but a way worse job and no money
[07:04]  * mapps cant help himself ....how can i help anyone else
[07:53] <zmoylan-pi> you're forgetting callahans law.  shared pain lessens shared joy increases
[07:59] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:06] <diplo> Morning all
[08:09] <MooDoo> howdy dipli
[08:09] <MooDoo> doh too early
[08:15] <diplo> hah
[09:35] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cookie Day! :-D
[09:37]  * davmor2 eats all the Cookies now it is happy belly day :)
[09:41] <JamesTait> davmor2, World Wildlife Conservation Day?  :-P
[09:42]  * zmoylan-pi swings across channel on handy vine
[09:51] <davmor2> JamesTait: I already Fund people looking after tigers and reintegrating them into the wild :)
[09:51] <JamesTait> I just look after mini tigers. ;)
[10:02] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://plus.google.com/photos?pid=5479982879927839602&oid=104244164525559506101
[10:02] <popey> rwar!
[10:05] <JamesTait> davmor2, I think I recognise him!
[10:06] <davmor2> JamesTait: been to India Recently?
[10:07] <JamesTait> davmor2, ah, no - must have been his South African cousin.
[10:08] <davmor2> JamesTait: Africa is Lion you muppet ;)
[10:12] <JamesTait> davmor2, this is not a lion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamestait0/15918390796/
[10:14] <JamesTait> davmor2, this is a lion (and a lioness): https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamestait0/15321948254/
[10:34] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:35] <davmor2> JamesTait: first one is a lion in stripy pyjamas you can't blag my head ;)
[10:35] <JamesTait> davmor2, heheh. :) Stripey pyjama cat?
[10:35] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[10:36] <brobostigon> moring JamesTait
[10:37] <davmor2> JamesTait: Straight from the mouth of a meerkat so it must true right?
[10:57] <kaushal> Hi
[10:57] <kaushal> is there a way to know the port number from process id?
[10:59] <diplo> I think you can get that via netstat
[10:59] <diplo>  -p | grep the PID ?
[11:01] <kaushal> ok
[11:06] <kaushal> diplo: -p says program name as per man ps
[11:06] <kaushal> diplo: please correct me if i am wrong in interpreting it
[11:06] <kaushal> I did netstat -p | grep 22422
[11:07] <diplo> Says in man that it shows the Program name and the PID
[11:07] <kaushal> udp        0      0 localhost.localdomain:42599 localhost.localdomain:42599 ESTABLISHED 22422/postmaster
[11:07] <kaushal> diplo: i am interested to know the port number
[11:07] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:09] <diplo> I'm not a great netstat user but looks like netstat -apt | grep PID ?
[11:09] <xplora1a> add a -n to the netstat for faster responce
[11:10] <diplo> Worked here kaushal
[11:12] <kaushal> ok
[11:12] <kaushal> xplora1a: is it nestat -aptn | grep PID?
[11:13] <kaushal> i mean netstat*
[11:13] <kaushal> netstat -aptn | grep PID?
[11:13] <xplora1a> yes, the -n stops netstat doing a revers dns on every IP address
[11:13] <kaushal> xplora1a: ok
[11:14] <kaushal> what dos -a -p and -t options for?
[11:14] <kaushal> is -t meant for tcp?
[11:15] <xplora1a> -p is the PID/program name -t TCP only
[11:15] <kaushal> ok
[11:15] <kaushal> xplora1a: Thanks
[11:16] <kaushal> diplo: thanks
[11:16] <xplora1a> cah
[11:18] <kaushal> xplora1a: if i do netstat -aptn | grep 22761
[11:18] <kaushal> i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/9365914/
[11:18] <xplora1a> -a, --all
[11:18] <xplora1a>        Show both listening and non-listening sockets.  With  the  --interfaces
[11:18] <xplora1a>        option, show interfaces that are not up
[11:18] <kaushal> what does :::1103 and :::*  mean
[11:18] <kaushal> can i get the field header name?
[11:19] <kaushal> for tcp        0      0 :::1103                     :::*                        LISTEN      22761/java
[11:20] <xplora1a> those are listern ports so anything can connect to those ports. but if there werer established connections to those ports they would be seperatly listed
[11:20] <kaushal> xplora1a: ok
[11:21] <xplora1a> :::1103 is an IPv6 address
[11:21] <kaushal> ok
[11:21] <kaushal> xplora1a: one last question
[11:21] <xplora1a> ok
[11:22] <kaushal> how do i include header meaning column name
[11:22] <kaushal> in netstat -aptn | grep PID
[11:22] <xplora1a> not sure, have a look through man netstat
[11:22] <kaushal> ok
[11:25] <kaushal> netstat -an | head gives me the desired output
[11:25] <kaushal> but when i do netstat -an | head | grep 22761
[11:25] <kaushal> it returns nothing
[11:25] <kaushal> I know i am doing something wrong
[13:36]  * popey boggles that this thing has hit 12KUSD https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ubutab-a-1tb-ubuntu-tablet-for-media-lovers
[13:44] <bigcalm> popey: worth while?
[13:44] <ali1234> well the really odd thing about that is they only want 36k
[13:44] <popey> yeah, can't see how it's viable
[13:44] <ali1234> that doesn't seem like enough for a production run, unless it's basically an existing tablet
[13:45] <diddledan> morning
[13:45] <bigcalm> Spinning rust in a tablet, wonder how long that will last
[13:46] <popey> like spinning rust in a laptop?
[13:46] <ali1234> not really. nobody actually uses a laptop on their lap
[13:46] <popey> nobody uses a tablet on their lap either :D
[13:46] <ali1234> yeah they hold it constantly
[13:46] <bigcalm> popey: I think that a tablet might be treated with a little less care than a laptop
[13:46] <ali1234> which means lots of shaking
[13:47] <popey> sure ㋛
[13:47] <ali1234> and laptop hard drives tend to die already
[13:50] <diddledan> I think it's on indiegogo rather than kickstarter because kickstarter would require proven prototypes before listing it
[13:50] <diddledan> indiegogo doesn't vet things so thoroughly
[13:50] <ali1234> they also require it's not just some existing peice of hardware that you are reselling
[13:51] <diddledan> good point
[13:51] <ali1234> anyway, i'd rather have a 256GB SSD in such a tablet. would be about the same price.
[13:51] <popey> wonder if anyone will ever get their device
[13:53] <diddledan> they must be reselling someone else's hardware to be able to deliver by their anticipated April deadline
[13:53] <m0nkey_> If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
[13:53] <m0nkey_> Nice concept, but would need to see a working model.
[13:54] <ali1234> the "hardware partner" is named on the comments page
[13:54] <ali1234> i like this comment: "Would much rather have a tablet running Ubuntu, so much more available as far as programs for the work I do."
[13:55] <ali1234> people still think convergence means "can run desktop software on phones"
[13:55] <ali1234> rather than "can run phone apps on the desktop"
[14:49] <awilkins> ARRGH another one of those websites that locks up my WHOLE BROWSER
[14:50] <awilkins> http://t.co/rqISLVSza3 << anyone else want to test?
[14:50] <awilkins> Makes Firefox grey out
[14:50] <awilkins> (mildly NSFW as it has a picture of a lady with lasers aimed at her groinal area)
[14:50] <diddledan> awilkins, love the picture
[14:51] <daftykins> maybe it's best you don't see it ;)
[14:52] <diddledan> now I'm wondering what made awilkins search for vaginal atrophy
[14:52] <awilkins> It was in my twitter feed
[14:52] <diddledan> lol
[14:52] <diddledan> yey for the twits
[14:53] <davmor2> awilkins: again why did you look?
[14:53] <awilkins> Tweet was : Career milestone achieved: [X] Write up a news story that demands a header image of lasers shooting out of a vagina.
[14:54] <davmor2> awilkins: and again you thought that's something I need to view ;)
[14:54] <daftykins> XD
[14:54] <awilkins> Shared it because of the annoying browser lockup thing
[14:55] <awilkins> Keeps happening to me recently, convinced it's to do with some of these evil clickbait things
[14:55] <diddledan> works fine in chromeland
[14:56] <diddledan> so the new 007/bond movie is to be called "spectre"
[14:56] <davmor2> awilkins: works fine but slowly in firefox. It is really slow to scroll though
[14:56] <awilkins> Yeah, the slow scrolling is a symptom too
[14:58] <daftykins> i like the progress bar shading in the bit on the right as you read through
[16:14] <foobarry> fire at hermes
[16:15] <foobarry> also, who has done RHCSA or RHCE lately?
[16:42] <diddledan> foobarry, where's hermes?
[16:43] <diddledan> aah it's an american parcel co?
[16:43] <foobarry>  Yesterday evening, Wednesday 3rd December we experienced a fire at our key hub in Warrington, causing significant damage to our main sorter. We would like to assure you that no one was injured in the fire an
[16:43] <foobarry> "no parcels have been damaged."
[16:43] <foobarry> With immediate effect we have activated a new central hub at Bradford to process extra volumes and are evaluating other potential sites today to provide additional support.
[16:43] <diddledan> aah, warrington, not washington >.<
[16:43] <diddledan> lol
[17:01] <mapps> well that was stinky
[17:01] <mapps> 2 iphone charging cables
[17:02] <mapps> bought them off amazon unofficial few quid each
[17:02] <mapps> neither work..used them once
[17:02] <foobarry> blew up your house?
[17:02] <mapps> nah
[17:02] <mapps> just nothing happens when i plug phone in to them
[17:03] <daftykins> mapps: lightning?
[17:03] <mapps> ya
[17:03] <daftykins> mmm you can't really go cheap on those :(
[17:04] <mapps> why?
[17:04] <Myrtti> they're either licensed or they don't work
[17:04] <foobarry> heh
[17:04] <Myrtti> and the license cost
[17:04] <Myrtti> s
[17:04] <mapps> they worked at first tho
[17:04] <foobarry> lightning never strikes twice
[17:04] <foobarry> or always...
[17:04] <foobarry> i never remember
[17:06] <diddledan> mapps, they're required to have a chip in them and the iphone will kill any that are using a dodgy or no license
[17:06] <diddledan> IIRC
[17:06] <diddledan> and IANAL
[17:07] <daftykins> that's a really unfortunate acronym
[17:07] <diddledan> daftykins, for you maybe ;-)
[17:08] <diddledan> teehee
[17:26] <daftykins> diddledan: i thought that assistance would never end last night ;)
[17:26] <diddledan> heh, I went to bed
[17:27] <daftykins> she was demanding i state whether it was working or not, solely from one install and dmesg staying relatively quiet
[17:28] <daftykins> i think i need a Scottie reference here somewhere
[17:28] <diddledan> :-)
[17:28] <diddledan> scottie ftw
[17:29] <diddledan> "I've given you all I've got"
[17:29] <daftykins> i liked a cartoon parody i saw the other day
[17:30] <daftykins> constant interruptions to Kirk over the radio, Scottie saying "uuuh, you're not gonnae believe this cap'n, but whenever i say i'm giving it all she's got... i've only just seen the lever goes another 1/3rd up - so i literally CAN make us go faster"
[17:30] <daftykins> "given most of the drama we're in could be evaded by going just a little bit faster, i'd like to apologies Cap'n for putting us in harms way so often"
[17:31] <diddledan> it's the rocker's method of going "1 faster"
[18:21]  * popey points everyone at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-December/038109.html
[18:21]  * popey hopes some people reply at some point ☻
[18:22] <daftykins> a support event could be fun!
[18:24] <diddledan> hmm, do I need chocolate or not?
[18:24] <diddledan> it does sound like a good idea
[18:24] <diddledan> got 30 minutes before the shop closes
[18:25] <daftykins> you ALWAYS need chocolate, diddledan
[18:25] <diddledan> yeah, that's what I was thinking
[18:25] <daftykins> i polished off a galaxy bar of ~112g last night to recover from support giving
[18:25] <diddledan> :-)
[18:25] <diddledan> brb. shop time.
[18:33] <daftykins> i like the message from the chap about old PCs, Pentium D his daily driver? poor chap
[19:09]  * diddledan sent a commandline love command to uupc \o/
[19:10] <popey> I think we've done that one
[19:10] <diddledan> awww
[19:13] <popey> hmm, maybe not
[19:13] <popey> just went back through many
[20:34] <diddledan> ok, I want a 3d printer now: http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/you-can-3d-print-your-very-own-moving-stargate-1610922/
[20:46] <daftykins> surely you mean the temporary use of one, forget ownership ;)
[20:47] <zmoylan-pi> once you have access to one and know the formula for stargate addresses....
[20:49] <shauno> gotta admit that's one thing I don't see the appeal of
[20:49] <daftykins> shauno: 3D printers in general?
[20:49] <shauno> from the few people I've talked to who have one, it seems half the fun is getting it working.  and the other half is fixing it
[20:49] <diddledan> shauno, a stargate or a 3d printer?
[20:49] <daftykins> yeah definitely
[20:50] <daftykins> remember those HP TouchPad tablets? i'm wiping mine ahead of popping it on ebay
[20:51] <daftykins> just had to interact with good ol' WebOS briefly, what a classic :D
[20:55] <diddledan> eep
[21:01] <diddledan> I made a noise that shouldn't come out of a beardy hippy bloke: http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2621615897/
[21:15] <dogmatic69> anyone know of a mouse button 'debounce' setting?
[21:16] <dogmatic69> 1/2 of clicks are now double clicks some how
[21:17] <intrbiz> if your using KDE, you can set the double click interval
[21:17] <daftykins> tried another mouse?
[21:17] <dogmatic69> just boring old 14.something
[21:17] <dogmatic69> unity I guess
[21:20] <daftykins> plug something else in just to be sure, had someone with a mouse that'd given up on life the other day
[21:20] <dogmatic69> it is well used, probably 6 years old...
[21:21] <dogmatic69> with around 2 years of MC
[21:22] <daftykins> 2 years in a motorcycle club, that's a fine mouse
[21:22] <dogmatic69> lol
[21:22] <dogmatic69> mine craft...
[21:23] <daftykins> aaaaaaah