[01:36] <GrayFox> hey guys
[01:36] <GrayFox> anyone who can help?
[01:37] <GrayFox> http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/742867
[08:06] <kraut> moin
[09:58] <cjwatson> hey, does anyone know what happened to Ingo Molnar's patch to make relatime smarter? http://people.redhat.com/mingo/relatime-patches/improve-relatime.patch
[09:59] <cjwatson> I don't really care about the mount options to a huge extent, but I'm turning on relatime by default in Ubuntu and it would be good if we had the "Is the previous atime value older than a day? If yes, update atime" bit
[10:00] <cjwatson> which was at Linus' suggestion to avoid regressions in things like tmpwatch/tmpreaper, so I'm not sure why it hasn't been included
[10:02] <cjwatson> http://lwn.net/Articles/244829/ <- context
[10:03] <cjwatson> would also avoid regressing popularity-contest data
[10:04] <amitk> cjwatson: I'm look at it now
[10:04] <cjwatson> ta
[10:06] <maks> cjwatson: afaik it is merged in fedora but not mainlined yet
[10:07] <maks_> fedora always ahead :D
[10:07] <cjwatson> Ingo works for RH, hardly surprising :P
[10:07] <maks_> ;)
[10:08] <cjwatson> is the Fedora kernel in git anywhere? having no luck finding it
[10:08] <maks_> good old cvs
[10:09] <maks_> http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/rpms/kernel/devel/
[10:09] <cjwatson> thanks
[10:09] <maks_> you can see kyle busily working :) np cjwatson
[10:09] <maks_> need to watch that too for debian
[10:10] <cjwatson> http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/rpms/kernel/devel/linux-2.6-smarter-relatime.patch?rev=1.5&view=log
[10:11] <maks_> yep
[10:11] <cjwatson> amitk: want a bug?
[10:12] <firas> hello ---- how  save Kernel IP routing table rules
[10:12] <amitk> cjwatson: bug is appreciated
[10:13] <firas> I lost them after reboot
[10:14] <maks_> keep them in your pocket firas, wrong channel ask on #ubuntu for user support
[10:16]  * soren discovers that it says "relatime", not "realtime" and now finds that the discussion is starting to make sense.
[10:16] <abogani> soren: :-)
[10:16] <firas> thank you MAKS   -- I will not do becuas  your hand some times visit my pocket
[10:17] <maks_> firas you must mistake me for someone else :D
[10:18] <cjwatson> amitk: bug 199427
[10:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199427 in linux "smarter relatime updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199427
[10:20] <firas> MAKS is the thief of route rules be careful poeple
[10:24] <tjaalton> abogani: hey, there's a bug against lrm that needs some rt-love, bug 197130 :)
[10:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197130 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "[hardy] Black X screen and system halt after installing linux-rt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197130
[10:24] <abogani> tjaalton: Ok, thanks
[10:43] <abogani> Seems to me that this patch is a good for inclusion in -rt...
[10:56] <amitk> cjwatson: it seems to me from reviewing the patch that we ought to enable CONFIG_DEFAULT_RELATIME in our kernel to force all filesystems use relatime by default. Do you see any drawbacks in that?
[11:03] <sivan> hi all
[11:05] <abogani> amitk: IMHO dump would be affected, at least
[11:05] <sivang> could anybody tell me if splash boot option is absolutely neccessary to have splashy doing it's thing when booting ?
[11:05] <cjwatson> amitk: I was less convinced about that; that's more painful for users to disable since it's not so fine-grained
[11:05] <sivang> I have it set up from the ubuntu package but nothing happens
[11:06] <sivang> I tried highring it's start prio in rcS.d and rc1.d but nothing
[11:06] <sivang> cjwatson: hey Colin
[11:06] <sivang> amitk: fellow from Israel? :)
[11:08] <amitk> cjwatson: so you plan on adding relatime to /etc/fstab?
[11:09] <amitk> sivang: no, amit is a very common name in India :)
[11:10] <cjwatson> amitk: already done :-)
[11:10] <cjwatson> at least for new installs
[11:10] <cjwatson> I sort of question adding it to existing installs
[11:11] <sivang> amitk: Ah, heh pleased to meet you then
[11:12] <amitk> cjwatson: that leaves all the upgraders out...
[11:12] <amitk> sivang: you too
[11:13] <cjwatson> amitk: your call
[11:14] <amitk> abogani: does dump use atime instead of ctime and mtime?
[11:17] <abogani> amitk: No, i wrong. Spoken before think. Sorry.
[12:15] <cjwatson> amitk: IIRC you were working with ogra on making CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND a boot parameter, since some hardware likes it one way and some the other; did anything come of that?
[12:17] <amitk> cjwatson: the key is to enable USB_PERSIST and make it runtime configurable. I think it is very much doable and I intend to work on it later today
[12:22] <cjwatson> thanks
[13:38] <BenC> Good morning folks
[13:42] <abogani> BenC: Good morning, sir!
[14:07] <BenC> cking_, amitk: I am prepping the next upload (-12.18), so if there is anything you want in, let me know now
[14:07] <cking_> BenC: Nothing to add... fine by me.
[14:10] <cjwatson> if either of the relatime thing I mentioned earlier or the USB suspend/persist thing are straightforward, I'd appreciate having those in beta
[14:11] <cjwatson> did I remember to ask if anyone had picked up mjg59's VT font restoration patch?
[14:11] <cjwatson> http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/vt.diff
[14:14] <cjwatson> I confirmed that it fixed the font restoration problems from the hardy-console spec for me
[14:20] <amitk> cjwatson: mjg59's patch went in
[14:20] <amitk> so did relatime
[14:20] <amitk> working on USB persist now
[14:20] <amitk> BenC: how long do I have? I am reviewing the USB persist config option.
[14:22] <cjwatson> amitk: it did? awesome
[14:23] <BenC> amitk: probably can do it
[14:24] <BenC> amitk: I'm doing a test build now...make sure you pull before messing with config changes (had some updates to config files just pushed)
[14:25] <tjaalton> BenC: check bugs 199037 and 189185
[14:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199037 in linux "Null bytes in files access by 2 or more NFS clients" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199037
[14:25] <amitk> BenC: yeah.. looks like enabling CONFIG_USB_PERSIST in i386/generic should be enough for the needs of ogra and eee pc guys.
[14:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189185 in linux "Thinkpad X61 hangs when removing from dock" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189185
[14:25] <BenC> tjaalton: do they have tested patches?
[14:25] <BenC> tjaalton: if not, I can't do much with them for this upload
[14:25] <tjaalton> BenC: both are applied upstream
[14:26] <amitk> BenC: great! so you decided to enable RELATIME by default :)
[14:26] <BenC> tjaalton: well I assumed that the relatime patch was only useful if we did enable it :)
[14:26] <cjwatson> heh, I'd already turned it on in the installer, but feel free to do it in the kernel too
[14:27] <BenC> well the patch presented a new option, so I figured it should be turned on...is it safe to do so right before beta?
[14:28] <amitk> BenC: the patch is fairly straight-forward and I am of the opinion that everyone (including upgraders) should benefit from relatime I/O savings.
[14:29] <BenC> That's good enough for me, so I'll leave it on
[14:31] <BenC> tjaalton: Just in time...I'll get both of those in, assuming they pass some trivial review and testing
[14:33] <BenC> tjaalton: 199037, that commit is already in our kernel
[14:34] <BenC> tjaalton: looks like it got cherry picked from some other report...so I'll mark this bug
[14:50] <BenC> amitk: so with your config changes, is usb-persist enabled by default?
[14:52] <BenC> smb: Tim had already bumped the ABI to -12, and the last one was -11...not sure what sort of ABI related failure you would have had though...are you sure it wasn't a module issue?
[14:53] <smb> BenC: Not completely, I just saw messages about abi check failed and by reflex bumped the abi. :-(
[14:56] <BenC> I'm doing a build now (reverted to -12), so I'll see what happens
[14:57] <smb> BenC: Ok, I will do the same on one of the porters and on my build machine.
[14:57] <BenC> amitk: I assumed that the USB_PERSIST thing was supposed to be enabled in config only, and we would add a mechanism to even then make it not enabled by default unless a proper kernel param was passed
[15:02] <amitk> BenC: on a closer look that feature is already implemented, as a power/persist file for each USB device.
[15:03] <amitk> so whatever device needs to enable it will just write to the 'persist' file from userspace
[15:05] <BenC> amitk: ah, ok
[15:06] <BenC> amitk: then maybe we should be consistent and enable it across the board?
[15:09] <amitk> BenC: I have mixed feelings about it. It would allow more users to potentially shoot themselves in the foot...but on the other hand everyone running -generic (i386) has already been given the gun.
[15:29] <BenC> amitk-afk: yeah, which is like 90%
[15:30] <BenC> smb: ABI/module checks passed for me with -12 ABI set
[15:31] <BenC> smb: perhaps the -11 ABI files weren't present when you tried the compile the first time
[15:31] <amitk> BenC: so I should enabled it across the board?
[15:32] <smb> BenC: Hm, I really have to look closer next time. :(
[15:33] <BenC> amitk: sure, can't hurt any more than enabling for -generic x86
[15:34] <BenC> it's not like people will install -386 to get around the problem :)
[15:34] <amitk> heh, true
[15:34] <amitk> BenC: and I surely don't want to suggest creating another flavour :)
[15:41] <BenC> amitk: let me know when you have that ready...test build went fine, so I'm ready to upload
[15:43] <amitk> BenC: done
[15:44] <kraut> one general question, perhaps anyone could help me with this here: is it safe to give an user the possibility to use chroot /new/chroot via sudo as root? i am using a grsec-patched kernel, so it's not possible to mknod devices within the chroot.
[15:47] <BenC> kraut: you're better off using schroot package
[15:52] <BenC> amitk: thanks
[15:52] <kraut> BenC: what's schrott?
[15:53] <kraut> translated in german the word sounds not really trustable
[15:55] <kraut> ah, i see.
[15:55] <kraut> thanks BenC!
[16:07] <BenC> Ok, -12.18 is away
[16:08] <BenC> I'm going to sign off for awhile to do some maint on my laptop...if anyone needs me, my mobile is on me
[17:04] <amitk> smb: when Ben comes back online, could you tell him we need to respin the kernel. I forgot to push a lpia patch to solve a FTBFS. *sigh* I might do it over the weekend.
[17:05] <smb> amitk: Ok, I will tell him. Might be I found my problem as well. Missing modules in virtual...
[17:06] <amitk> smb: I mean the patch is pushed, but I might as well wait for all builds to be done before uploading another one
[17:06] <amitk> smb: thanks
[17:08] <smb> amitk: np.
[17:11] <smb> soren: should kvm modules be build for virtual?
[17:13]  * smb goes for some food
[17:14] <soren> smb: Nope.
[18:35] <amitk> smb: Ben forgot to enable relatime on the custom flavours, I just pushed patches
[18:41] <smb> soren: Hm, ok. It looks a bit like have been built before and this is being complained. Ok, then I try to fix that.
[18:41] <smb> amitk: Ok, I will tell him later.
[21:19] <amitk> heya kylem_
[23:11] <xhaker> noticed the new kernel update. just ftbs. could you include https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/187121
[23:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187121 in linux "Udma not fully available in Acer 1694 Wlmi" [Medium,Confirmed]


[00:52] <CoderEurope> One for the weekend :-
[00:53] <CoderEurope> What does the room think of Tim Berners-Lee 's endorsement of #DRM ?
[00:53] <CoderEurope> https://status.fsf.org/notice/250565
[00:53] <CoderEurope> shall check the logs on Montag.
[08:01] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:03] <webpigeon> popey: your wikimedia link to the image used for the cover image isn't
[10:03] <webpigeon> (upc s10e18)


[04:18] <loku> Hello CHannel, need help. Im trying to uninstall defualt libreoffice and install from debs but it will remove budgie-desktop. How to avoid that? thank you
[04:18] <loku> Libreoffice is tied to ubuntu-budgie-desktop?


[07:36] <guesswhat> Guys? Will this work https://pastebin.com/raw/AEEWvkAG ? I need to create pseudo intefaces ( dummy bridge ) for management network ( no public one ), but it should route to internet via default gateway, problem is that i have only single bare metal without router, so i need to do this on single machine
[12:24] <guesswhat> Guys? Will this work https://pastebin.com/raw/AEEWvkAG ? I need to create pseudo intefaces ( dummy bridge ) for management network ( no public one ), but it should route to internet via default gateway, problem is that i have only single bare metal without router, so i need to do this on single machine


[01:05] <Mobidoy> c'est bin trop tranquil ici quand les gars de cannonical sont en UDS lol
[01:06] <IdleOne> hah
[01:06] <IdleOne> Mobidoy: join your linode client to #freenode and ask in the channel if you can have an unaffiliated cloak
[01:07] <Mobidoy> What the heck is that ?
[01:07] <IdleOne> then wait and one of the freenode staff will apply.
[01:07] <Mobidoy> ok...
[01:07] <IdleOne>  [Mobidoy]<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:08] <IdleOne> instead it will be  [Mobidoy] (~quassel@unaffiliated/mobidoy)
[01:09] <IdleOne> when you become an ubuntu member at some point it will be changed to  [Mobidoy] (~quassel@ubuntu/member)
[01:10] <Mobidoy> Aye, I need to apply for it.... I think the meeting is soon or has already been done !
[01:10] <IdleOne> there are meetings every 2 weeks I think for the Americas board
[01:10] <IdleOne> cyphermox: would know :) he is a board member I believe
[01:13] <IdleOne> How are things going for you?
[01:13] <Mobidoy> 19th May :)
[01:14] <Mobidoy> Going good... Doc has adjusted my meds and everything is fine now :)
[01:14] <Mobidoy> How are you doing ?
[01:14] <IdleOne> good
[01:15] <Mobidoy> Meetings are held at 23:59 UTC on the third Thursday of the month.
[01:15] <IdleOne> My kids will be coming back to see me this summer for a couple of weeks and I am super excited
[01:15] <Mobidoy> Got to be... cool...
[01:15] <IdleOne> ah 1 meeting a month
[01:15] <IdleOne> cloak applied :)
[01:15] <IdleOne> /whois Mobidoy
[01:16] <IdleOne> Mobidoy (~quassel@unaffiliated/mobidoy) has joined #ubuntu-qc
[01:16] <IdleOne> now your server is a little less visible to the world :)
[01:16] <Mobidoy> except for this : Mobidoy is connecting from<EMAIL_ADDRESS><IP_ADDRESS>
[01:17] <IdleOne> only you can see that
[01:17] <IdleOne> it is your connection
[01:17] <IdleOne> but when I do /whois I don't see the ip
[01:17] <Mobidoy> ahh cool
[01:18] <Mobidoy> They got a preety good guide to set it all up (the server) took me couple of hours and I have it all... ftp, mail, web....
[01:19] <IdleOne> nice
[01:19] <Mobidoy> Only need to set a proxy so I can use the IP to watch US tv streaming
[01:19] <IdleOne> hehe
[01:19] <IdleOne> that is not completely legal :)
[01:19] <IdleOne> shhh
[01:19] <Mobidoy> well, actualy no lol... They gave me a US IP :) I did not ask for it :P
[01:20] <Mobidoy> I looked hard for it tho !
[01:20] <IdleOne> Mobidoy: yeah, linode servers are located in the US
[01:20] <Mobidoy> Only the Atlanta one is a bit trcicky has many ports are blocked !
[01:20] <IdleOne> Atlanta,New Jersey,Texas and umm two more places
[01:21] <IdleOne> yeah the best one for you would be the Jersey one
[01:21] <Mobidoy> took that one
[01:21] <IdleOne> :)
[01:21]  * IdleOne has checked out the site a few times.
[01:22] <Mobidoy> look so lol
[01:22] <Mobidoy> I will try to put up spmething up with google ads so it pays it self out
[01:23] <Mobidoy> You know when MagicFab is coming back ?
[01:23] <IdleOne> he is back
[01:24] <Mobidoy> Oh so there is an Ubuntu Hour tommorow
[01:24] <IdleOne> I don't know
[01:25] <IdleOne> I think he is in Quebec city
[01:25] <Mobidoy> I should be there... If I am not flagging in St-Eustache
[01:25] <Mobidoy> Yeah he was in Quebec city
[01:25] <Mobidoy> This is where I was asking if he was back from :)
[01:25] <IdleOne> ah ok, I don't know if he is back in Montreal
[01:26] <IdleOne> be back, calling my kids
[01:26] <Mobidoy> k
[08:26] <cyphermox> Mobidoy: Americas RMB meets once a month
[13:30] <Mobidoy> C'est quand tu reviens toi cyphermox ?
[15:41] <cyphermox> Mobidoy: je reviens Samedi apres-midi
[23:39] <Mobidoy> Dak


[08:27] <alkisg> Good morning
[08:33] <Balsaq> hody alkisg!
[08:34] <Balsaq> how do i personlize my profile so my "whois" thing readsd the way i want it too
[08:36] <alkisg> Balsaq: better ask this in #ubuntu
[08:37] <Balsaq> i thought the 2 were essentially the same? and that room is a mad house...but if you wish.
[08:39] <alkisg> No, this channel is for education specific questions..
[09:11] <nubae|work> greets alkisg, how's your python app coming along?
[09:12] <alkisg> Hi nubae!! Which one ? :)
[09:12] <alkisg> My latest python script was one that supported users importing/exporting, it runs just fine...
[09:12] <alkisg> The other one about port forwarding NATting etc wasn't an app; I was looking to use existing tools
[09:13] <alkisg> (so telepathy didn't do what I wanted; I found no existing tools for that)
[10:45] <BronzeAu> Hey all. Any one here?
[10:45] <BronzeAu> Have a couple of questions.
[10:45] <jussi01> no :P
[10:45] <jussi01> go ahead BronzeAu
[10:45] <BronzeAu> Bugger. Oh well. :9
[10:46] <BronzeAu> Mate. I've downloaded Ubuntu from the Jaunty DVD. Updated it and now I want to add the Edubuntu ISO image I have on CD here. How do I do that?
[10:46] <BronzeAu> Was about 230mb
[10:47] <BronzeAu> The edubuntu site dosen't really seem to help me download it or give me clear instructions unless I have missed it. Most probably.
[10:48] <nubae|work> just stick the edubuntu cd in the drive and a dialog should come up asking if u want to install packages
[10:50] <BronzeAu> It just displays a heap of folders. Do I click on one in particular?
[10:50] <jussi01> sudo aptitude install edubuntu-desktop should do it no?
[10:50] <BronzeAu> Both 'install' and 'appinstall' do nothing.
[10:50] <BronzeAu> I'll try.
[10:53] <BronzeAu> Its downloading - So I didn't need the CD afterall.
[10:53] <jussi01> thats what I thought, yeah.
[10:54] <jussi01> iirc the live CD's dont have packages on them, only an image.
[10:55] <BronzeAu> Ok. cool. Well it working so fingers crossed. It's taken me two days to get to this point. Phew!!
[10:56] <nubae|work> right, u need to write the image to CD
[10:58] <BronzeAu> What image? Nubae. Do you mean me?
[10:59] <BronzeAu> I have had absolutlely no luck with the ISO's I have downloaded. Three copies and all corrupt in some way. Just amazing. Finally I went down the shops and bought the last Linux Mag and there was a DVD of Jaunty in there.
[11:08] <BronzeAu> Thank guys. Appreciate the help. ;)
[14:56] <LaserJock> are we having a meeting?
[14:58] <alkisg> Do we have anything that relates to an agenta? :)
[14:59] <sbalneav> Well, I'm in Ubuntu-meeing just in case we do :)
[15:00] <LaserJock> we've got major issues with the DVD I wanted to discuss
[15:00] <LaserJock> we don't have much time
[15:00] <LaserJock> I think we need to nail down Karmic ASAP
[15:06] <LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: ping
[15:09] <stgraber> LaserJock: pong
[15:10] <LaserJock> stgraber: meeting time
[15:10] <alkisg> stgraber: meeting... :)
[15:33]  * alkisg is sorry to leave in the middle of the meeting, but he has to. Good work LaserJοck!
[15:40] <highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
[15:40] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is the meeting over?
[15:40] <LaserJock> highvoltage: still going
[15:52] <LaserJock> highvoltage: the short version of the DVD problem is that the text-based installer is screwed right now
[15:52] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ouch, ok
[15:53] <LaserJock> highvoltage: cjwatson is tracking it down for us as he thinks it might be a bug in the build script
[15:53] <LaserJock> if that's fixed then things are look rather good actually
[15:53] <LaserJock> I did a bunch of tests on the Live side
[15:53] <LaserJock> and it really looks cool
[15:53] <LaserJock> I'm impressed
[15:53] <LaserJock> we get the nice work of Ubiquity
[15:54] <LaserJock> but it still uses Edubuntu 9.10 most places
[15:54] <LaserJock> the slideshow is still Ubuntu-specific, but I don't think that's a big deal
[15:58] <dinda> LaserJock: highvoltage:  I've got a meeting next week with other Canonical folks re: Edubuntu and all things Ubuntu Education, anything in particular you folks want asked?
[16:03] <LaserJock> dinda: heh, lots of things ...
[16:04] <LaserJock> dinda: is it going to be a live meeting?
[16:04] <dinda> LaserJock: yes, in person
[16:04] <LaserJock> I things that come to my mind are:
[16:05] <LaserJock> 1) Is the community free to just use "Edubuntu", no need for "Ubuntu Educational Edition", or "Ubuntu Education"?
[16:06] <LaserJock> 2) Is Canonical going to offer paid support for Edubuntu (or even parts of it)?
[16:07] <LaserJock> 3) What channels can we use to involve Canonical in marketing of Edubuntu?
[16:07] <LaserJock> right now I'm just not sure where Edubuntu fits in Canonical's plans
[16:08] <LaserJock> it seems like Canonical still wants to get involved with schools, etc.
[16:08] <LaserJock> primarily right now as Ubuntu desktops and servers
[16:08] <LaserJock> but it would seem like Canonical would also benefit from Edubuntu too
[16:09] <LaserJock> so I'm curious what can Edubuntu do to help Canonical and vice versa
[16:09] <dinda> LaserJock: agreed, last they told was "edubuntu is not currently aligned in our goals" but not much else
[16:09] <LaserJock> right
[16:10] <LaserJock> I mean, one question would be, what does it take for Edubuntu to be "valuable" to Canonical again
[16:10] <dinda> so I hope to flesh out if they have any plans and if so, try to get some sort of more formal statement
[16:10] <LaserJock> what measure of success do we need to show?
[16:10] <dinda> they've really said nothing to the community and the silence has been a bit deafening - imo
[16:11] <dinda> of course since Laserjock sez "silence means I'm that man" then maybe. . .  :)
[16:11] <LaserJock> lol
[16:11] <LaserJock> dinda: mdz asked me to fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/ReleaseManifest
[16:12] <LaserJock> dinda: so I updated it for Edubuntu, but we still have a ? under the support length
[16:12] <LaserJock> dinda: I mentioned in my email back to him that we've still not hear on that
[16:12] <LaserJock> so that's somewhat of a pressing need
[16:12] <LaserJock> I don't even know how to write my release announcement currently regarding Canonical's support
[16:12] <dinda> yeah, there's been no talk of formal support yet
[16:13] <LaserJock> dinda: well, there was no talk of the lack of formal support
[16:13] <LaserJock> that I'm aware of
[16:13] <LaserJock> I've never seen a Canonical statement saying they no longer offer support for Edubuntu
[16:14] <dinda> let me ask real quick
[16:18] <dinda> they say "not at the moment"
[16:18] <LaserJock> ... okay
[16:18] <dinda> but I suspect if a large enough customer came to us, we would definitely not turn them down
[16:18] <LaserJock> that makes for an interested release announcement ;-)
[16:18] <dinda> I wonder if the hang up is b/c of the ltsp stuff of the additional edu apps?
[16:18] <LaserJock> LTSP should be supported
[16:19] <LaserJock> as it's on the Ubuntu Alternate CD as well
[16:19] <dinda> ok, will definitely put that topic on the agenda
[16:19] <LaserJock> my guess would be it's because they don't have a person on the "inside"
[16:20] <LaserJock> i.e. how can they ensure supportability if there's nobody involved with the project
[16:20] <LaserJock> I would guess that would be the issue more than the actual packages
[16:20] <jsgotangco> makes sense
[16:21] <dinda> jsgotangco: Hello there!  long time no see you :)
[16:21] <jsgotangco> dinda: i know! But I always see your facebook updates :)
[16:21] <LaserJock> in any case, I guess for karmic we just don't mention Canonical support availability and move on from there
[16:21] <dinda> jsgotangco: though I do follow you on FB/twitter/etc
[16:22] <jsgotangco> hehe
[16:25] <LaserJock> dinda: the most important thing for me personally is that Canonical has been almost completely silent for a long long time
[16:25] <dinda> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=3169
[16:25] <LaserJock> dinda: I don't like the answer "Canonical's not interested" but I appreciate it a lot more than silence
[16:25] <dinda> LaserJock: agreed
[16:25] <LaserJock> dinda: right
[16:26] <LaserJock> dinda: I don't see how Edubuntu can't be involved with this stuff
[16:26] <LaserJock> but we've gotten nothing
[16:27] <LaserJock> Edubuntu as a project and community is interested in Ubuntu in Education
[16:27] <LaserJock> even if that doesn't mean people using the Edubuntu DVD
[16:27] <LaserJock> although we want that to be a solid offering
[16:27] <LaserJock> and my feeling is that we're getting side-stepped and kept out of the loop quite a bit
[16:28] <dinda> LaserJock: I promise I'll do what I can
[16:28] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: honestly if they are not up to it, they should just drop it altogether
[16:28] <LaserJock> dinda: well, thanks a ton for your efforts
[16:28] <jsgotangco> and free up whatever copyright over the name
[16:29] <LaserJock> right
[16:29] <LaserJock> but I want to know either way
[16:29] <jsgotangco> yes
[16:29] <LaserJock> where do we stand
[16:29] <LaserJock> what's the game plan moving forward
[16:29] <LaserJock> what are the boundaries
[16:29] <jsgotangco> dinda: over here we are arranging an olpc pilot for a school to run fedora/sugar
[16:30] <jsgotangco> the donor didn't like the idea of getting intel ;-)
[16:30] <dinda> on a slightly related topic - has anyone been asked to do an Open Week presentation for Edubuntu?
[16:30] <LaserJock> yep
[16:30] <LaserJock> stgraber is doing one
[16:30] <highvoltage> dinda: yes adding to what LaserJock said, I don't think we want to use "Ubuntu Educational edition", etc
[16:31] <LaserJock> and hopefully some us can also stop by
[16:31] <dinda> jsgotangco: ugh, yeah and I know morgan c and others in the sugar project are doing some great work to get sugar packaged for ubuntu
[16:32] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco, nice to see you around again
[16:32] <highvoltage> dinda: and you of course too
[16:32] <jsgotangco> yup, but I must say I'm quite impressed on the fedora 11 remix / sugar spin for a slow machine like the xo
[16:32] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: hey yeah, ive been on irc but just been quiet, had a hell of a season
[16:33] <dinda> RH hired Mel Chua from olpc and she's rocking over there
[16:33] <jsgotangco> yup mel is there
[16:34] <dinda> jsgotangco: how large is that pilot?
[16:35] <jsgotangco> not too big we're starting with 50 in an integrated school and 200 in a public school
[16:36] <jsgotangco> the 50 is interesting because it entails 2 grade levels
[16:36] <jsgotangco> the 4th graders will be tasked to learn to build content for the 1st graders
[16:36] <jsgotangco> ;-)
[16:36] <dinda> Nice!
[16:38] <LaserJock> I've definitely been feeling that Fedora and openSUSE are progressing much faster than we are
[16:38] <LaserJock> we seem to not be as agile or innovative
[16:38] <jsgotangco> its a bigger community
[16:38] <dinda> OpenSUSE are making some nice progress indeed
[16:38] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: wow, the 4th graders making content for grade 2's is awesome!
[16:39] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: it would be an interesting exercise to say the least
[16:40] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: because the theory is that a 1st grader is only a consumer
[16:40] <jsgotangco> while an older kind can become a producer
[16:40] <jsgotangco> more complex concepts are grasped
[16:40] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: thats why its so important to have an educator in a team
[16:41] <jsgotangco> to make such teaching concepts
[16:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: when I was that age I so wanted to create content for the grades below me. I did actually and I taught my younger brother a lot of things with it
[16:55] <jsgotangco> oh man it seems some northern provinces had some massive flooding again from a typhoon :/


[00:59] <meebey> kenvandine: \o/ https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smuxi/+bug/629159
[01:00] <meebey> kenvandine: working oauth :)
[01:00] <meebey> kenvandine: and ayatana awesomeness
[01:43] <RAOF> meebey: Ooooh, yes please!
[08:55] <bilalakhtar> vish: You got a 'Thank You' from sabdfl! congrats! :D
[09:01] <vish> bilalakhtar: hmm,k.. ;)
[11:22] <Cimi> iainfarrell: please change "thirteen heads are better than one" :D
[11:22] <Cimi> they change everyday :D
[11:22] <Cimi> how they are eleven
[11:22] <Cimi> *now
[11:43] <Cimi> iainfarrell: MacSlow: yesterday I went with my motorcycle on the hills near my city, amazing lovin' the sense of liberty!
[11:45] <MacSlow> Cimi, iainfarrell: I did my first clutch-up and power-wheelies on my Duc yesterday evening *evil.grin*
[11:45] <iainfarrell> heh Cimi you'll be addicted in no time
[11:45] <iainfarrell> it's amazing fun
[11:45] <Cimi> yes
[11:45] <iainfarrell> Cimi: tomorrow I test ride this http://www.bestmotorcyclepictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/2009-bmw-k1300r-wallpaper.jpg
[11:46] <Cimi> so powerful
[11:46] <Cimi> omg :D
[11:48] <MacSlow> iainfarrell, interesting... but looks very bulky
[11:50] <MacSlow> Cimi, iainfarrell: tried this http://tinyurl.com/2f9qywy some weeks ago... nice trouble-maker (has the potential to get you into trouble with the cops easily :)
[11:50] <iainfarrell> heh, yeah MacSlow I would really like to try one
[11:51] <MacSlow> iainfarrell, but I would go with the small one (796) because the 1100 evo sp is even taller than my 848
[11:51] <iainfarrell> MacSlow: yeah
[11:52] <MacSlow> iainfarrell, in terms of agility (in the city) and nimbleness, it can't get better than supermoto
[11:53] <iainfarrell> MacSlow: quite :)
[11:53] <iainfarrell> MacSlow: but I need/ want to tour on mine
[11:53] <iainfarrell> so supermoto is out
[11:54] <MacSlow> yeah... certainly not good for going long distances
[13:38] <fagan> I wonder when mpt will be about
[13:38]  * fagan wants some attention for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/626414
[16:01] <fagan> I wonder is mpt on holidays
[19:54] <kklimonda> are nvidia drivers really that bad that just using unity heats up my laptop?
[19:56] <fagan> kklimonda: well it depends on how old your card is
[19:56] <fagan> ive run it on an absolutely horrible computer and it was fine
[19:56] <kklimonda> fagan: g84 with 128MB of ram
[19:56] <fagan> thats old enough kklimonda
[19:56] <kklimonda> fagan: seriously?
[19:56] <kklimonda> that's g84 i.e. 8400M
[19:57] <fagan> oh ok
[19:57] <kklimonda> well, actually a quadro 140m which is 8400M based ;)
[19:57] <fagan> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1028703/nvidia-g84-g86-bad :D
[19:57] <kklimonda> fagan: yes, that ine
[19:57] <kklimonda> one*
[19:58] <fagan> well unity is supposed to be really light
[19:58] <fagan> so I presume its you not it
[19:58] <kklimonda> exactly why I'm wondering if there is something in clutter that is terrible ineffective with nvidia binary blob
[19:58] <fagan> well nvidia drivers are great in most cases
[19:59] <fagan> probably something isnt quite implemented great yet in the drivers
[19:59] <fagan> since unity is made to run on small computers it needs to be light
[20:01] <kklimonda> I love how I can almost see my card redrawing appmenu-gtk ;)
[20:01] <fagan> lol
[20:02] <fagan> intel have bad drivers and this card is bad but still this computer is able to run unity with no problems
[20:02] <fagan> so weird
[20:14] <kklimonda> it got better after either restart or restart and update
[20:15] <kklimonda> I wonder if it's the good idea to push just about everything through dbus - at some point it will simply become a bottleneck..
[20:17] <fagan> well the dbus gets a lot of traffic but the computers can handle it
[20:17] <fagan> and its a lot faster now anyway
[20:17] <kklimonda> can they?
[20:17] <fagan> well im on the minimum requirements machine at the moment and its fine
[20:18] <kklimonda> can you click on File position in app menu and start moving mouse fast from left to right?
[20:18] <fagan> im not on unity at the moment
[20:18] <fagan> :(
[20:18] <kklimonda> I've started seeing a "loading" animation after few seconds of doing that ;)
[20:20] <fagan> seif: having computer issues?
[20:20] <seif> fagan, yes
[20:20] <seif> unity
[20:21] <fagan> crashing?
[20:26] <vish> kklimonda: me testing unity now as well , let me try that..
[20:27] <vish>  +/
[20:28] <vish> kklimonda: yup, i see that too , but for a very brief moment :)
[20:29] <vish> kklimonda: and this is on an intel , so might be why it is shorter here...


[22:35] <Guest87> hi not sure if right forum; have an issue booting DELL EMC poweredge server with Ubuntu 22.04 LTS server; install worked fine (when using BIOS not UEFI and using nomodeset in grub linux line)  but on reboot from disk (BOSS drive), the system locks into a blank screen  right when grub boots the kernel. The  system boots fine if one ESC to menu
[22:35] <Guest87> and boot with Ctrl-X. it also boots fine when Dell is powered off and then powered on (no esc required). Any suggestions for linux cmd line params to avoid this? Dell support refuse to support 22.04 at this point
[22:46] <tomreyn> Guest87: is the bios up to date?
[22:54] <Guest87> yes bios/firmware on latest
[22:59] <tomreyn> Guest87: and which model is this server?
[23:00] <tomreyn> are there warnings in the systemd journal about this?
[23:00] <tomreyn> or any unsual output? feel free to share.
[23:00] <tomreyn> (use a pastebin or termbin.com)


[03:18] <anarchotaoist[m]> > <@ilvipero:matrix.org> anarcho taoist: links below here:
[03:18] <anarchotaoist[m]> > https://frontpagelinux.com/tutorials/ubuntu-studio-20-10-audio-setup-tutorial/
[03:18] <anarchotaoist[m]> > https://frontpagelinux.com/tutorials/easily-install-jack-audio-with-ubuntu-studio-installer/
[03:18] <anarchotaoist[m]> Thank you very much! I will read this on the weekend. I wonder if this Pipewire ppa may also be a solution: https://launchpad.net/~pipewire-debian/+archive/ubuntu/pipewire-upstream
[06:33] <MauroGaspari[m]> <anarchotaoist[m] "> <@ilvipero:matrix.org> anarcho"> No problem. Pipewire, eventually but at the moment, from what I was told by audio gurus, Pipewire is not ready for pro-audio quality.
[06:36] <MauroGaspari[m]> anarcho taoist: also remember that if you tried cadence, you might have issues and in that case a fresh install makes things a lot easier. There are some configurations that cadence does, that don't play well with studio-controls, and sadly those config files are not automatically cleared even after you remove cadence.


[07:32] <Andrio> Out of curiosity, what permissions are needed to chown a file?
[07:34] <well_laid_lawn> Andrio:  higher permissions than are current
[07:35] <well_laid_lawn> generally speaking
[07:35] <Andrio> Heh
[07:35] <Andrio> I have sudo access though. You can't get much higher than that.
[07:35] <Andrio> Well, aside from physical access to the machine.
[07:36] <well_laid_lawn> you might need to explain the situation more if there is an issue
[07:36] <Andrio> There isn't; I'm just wondering
[07:36] <well_laid_lawn> k
[08:23] <guiverc> Andrio, if a mount is readonly; you can't change permissions even with `sudo chown`, also some filesystems may not be native & be capable of storing all posix-file-bits (eg. ntfs/samba..) and mask's provide permissions on mount that `sudo chown` cannot override .. ie. sudo may not be enough for every file you see
[09:27] <gnrp> Guys, I need help!!!11
[09:27] <gnrp> I have a xubuntu with xfce-terminal
[09:27] <gnrp> I connect via ssh to a server (debian, whatever) in which I run a tmux.
[09:28] <gnrp> I want the bell of the applications inside tmux to be handed over to tmux, which hands it over to ssh, which then hands it over to the terminal, such that my terminal window is blinking or so when a bell is received
[09:29] <gnrp> Passing on the bell is possible, but how would I make the xfce-terminal blink or somehow make itself notice (not by sound) when a bell is received?
[09:29] <gnrp> I was hoping to get a different color in the taskbar or so
[09:30] <gnrp> oh, 16.04 and 18.04 here
[17:00] <max12345> hello there, I'm running 16.04 and I have trouble installing a theme? I looked up yesterday how it's supposed to work and I did replicate it on my other 18.04 machine, but I have still some questions, namely where the default themes are so I that I have a working base to create my own from.
[17:04] <max12345> ah found it.
[17:51] <xubuntu36w> I purchased Xubuntu in 2013 and used it for a couple of years but it has been dormant since 2015.  I was trying to access it again but I forgot my password.  How do you update the password so I can access the app?
[17:51] <diogenes_> xubuntu36w, purchased?
[17:52] <GridCube> ?
[17:52] <diogenes_> ?
[17:56] <Bashing-om> xubuntu36w: Here are easy instructions to reset your password in Ubuntu: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/resetpassword .
[19:17] <xubuntu36w> I purchased an Acer laptop and downloaded Xubuntu, but it won't let me get any further than the login page because I forgot my password
[19:22] <diogenes_> xubuntu36w, you been given the answer already.
[19:40] <xubuntu36w> Thanks, I'm going to try that
[19:58] <xubuntu36w> I followed the steps and it gave me a message "password unchanged" after I entered it twice
[19:59] <xubuntu36w> It was another message
[19:59] <xubuntu36w> "authentication token manipulation error"
[20:05] <diogenes_> xubuntu17i, it would be easier to re-install, anyway if you not solving your problem today then come back tomorrow and we could try a few tricks.
[20:06] <xubuntu36w> I'm not that technically astute, but how do I re-install?
[20:07] <diogenes_> dowload xubuntu iso, write to usb drive and boot from it.
[20:07] <genii> That error is probably because your filesystem is mounted readonly
[20:07] <xubuntu36w> Yes it does say read only
[20:08]  * genii goes to read the pychocats page
[20:10] <genii> xubuntu36w: I would recommend to run: mount -o remount,rw /
[20:11] <genii> ..and then the passwd username    ( with the actual user name you want to change the password for of course)
[20:15] <xubuntu36w> Ok thanks, I'll try that. Is mount or remount on the Grub menu?
[20:17] <genii> This has nothing to do with a grub menu.
[20:17] <xubuntu36w> Ok I just shut it down, so how do I get to the mount or remount?
[20:19] <genii> You just follow the psychocats instructions again to choose recovery mode, then root. Then make sure you issue the: mount -o remount,rw /  ..command before issuing the: passwd username  ...command
[20:20] <genii> If you followed the instructions before and got the "authentication token manipulation error" problem, it was likely because you skipped the part in the instructions about remounting the filesystem read-write
[20:20] <genii> ( or made a typo, or some other similar thing )
[20:23] <Bashing-om> !cookie | genii
[20:24] <xubuntu36w> Yes, genii is an excellent helper, but I'm a no tech person and am having great difficulty with this process
[20:24] <genii> mmm cookies
[20:25] <xubuntu36w> I don't know how to run mount/remount.  Where do I input that or click on that command?
[20:25] <vp11> I should use bugs.launchpad.net to report a bug found on Xubuntu, right? even if in fact I believe it's a kernel issue.
[20:26] <vp11> bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu I mean
[20:27] <genii> xubuntu36w: When the machine reaches the point where it's sitting there waiting for you to type in commands, with a hashmark # then you should type the command I already gave you
[20:30] <genii> xubuntu36w: So that if you already did this: https://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/images/fixsudoprecise02.jpg and this: https://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/images/fixsudoprecise03.jpg  and now it says something like: root@yourmachinename:~#    ...then you should type in: mount -o remount,rw /   ...and then hit the enter key
[20:31] <genii> And then you will hopefully not get an error message and the machine will return to the: root@yourmachinename:~#   ..prompt again where it expects you to enter further commands
[20:32] <genii> At which point, remember what your user name is that you forgot the password for, say for example it is Fred. If so then you would type in: passwd Fred
[20:32] <genii> And then enter a new password. It will not show you anything being typed while you enter a password.
[20:32] <genii> Then Enter again
[20:36] <xubuntu36w> I typed in the command just as you have displayed it "mount -o remount,rw / and it then asked for me to name a filesystem type, so I typed in "read-write" and continued with the password change but it still gave me the same messages
[20:40] <genii> The filesystem type should have been EXT3 or EXT4 by default which is not required to be specified normally. So it is conceivable that either a different filesystem that it does not know about normally was chosen during installation, which is unusual, or that there is some other issue like encrypted home folder
[20:41] <genii> In this case, rather than issuing complicated instructions to discover the situation, your best option is just to reinstall
[20:41] <xubuntu36w> LOL, now you've really lost me.  Can you please walk me through the re-install, if that's not too much trouble?
[20:43] <genii> A third but more dubious explanation is that somehow wubi may have been used....
[20:44] <genii> xubuntu36w: I currently have to other things requiring my time here at my job. But installing Xubuntu is fairly straightforward. There are also many others here could probably help with that
[20:46] <genii> The basic process is boot to a USB stick or CD/DVD with the installation on it, follow instructions when prompted
[20:46] <xubuntu36w> Well thank you so much for your assistance.  I greatly appreciate it.
[20:59]  * genii sips
[21:11] <genii> vp11: If you know more specifically the package name which contains the problem, you can just issue: ubuntu-bug packagename   and follow the instructions. So if you think it's a kernel issue you can report it like: ubuntu-bug linux-image-$(uname -r)
[21:11] <genii> ( which will report a bug against the kernel which is currently running )
[22:37] <vp11> genii: thanks for the tips
[22:37] <vp11> I'm unsure if it's kernel bug per se, but from the crash logs it's gpu-related.
[22:38] <vp11> this has been happening for a few months now, I'm fairly sure I asked for help here maybe a couple of months ago
[22:38] <vp11> but now it's getting too frequent so I want to report it somewhere
[22:38] <vp11> https://paste.debian.net/1081675/
[22:39] <vp11> laptop will randomly freeze and syslog / kern.log will show always that at the moment of the crash
[22:40] <vp11> I've already tried multiple kernels, even 5.0 and 5.1
[23:00] <genii> A quick search seems to indicate it's some Vega driver related issue many are having
[23:02] <vp11> yes but I wasn't able to find people having it in the same random occurrence, I found people having this issue with specific apps or games.
[23:02] <vp11> and this laptop is supposed to be "Ubuntu certified" so I'm wondering if I go to Ubuntu if this issue will magically go away
[23:19] <genii> Since they don't write the AMD graphics drivers, probably not
[23:25] <genii> vp11: If you like to live dangerously you could try the amdgpu PPA which builds twice a day ( or more when there are upstream changes) https://launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/ubuntu/graphics-drivers
[23:37] <vp11> yeah, that might be my last resort
[23:37] <vp11> better than getting random freezes while I'm at the middle of the work
[23:37] <vp11> still better than using Windows


[10:31] <Dvalin> doko_: around
[10:32] <doko_> Dvalin: usually you can just ask
[10:33] <Dvalin> okay :)
[10:33] <Dvalin> I really need help with the sparc-biarch.dpatch
[10:33] <Dvalin> I get tons of errors
[10:34] <Dvalin> and I'm unable to figure out what it relies on
[10:34] <Dvalin> also I'm kind of reluctant asking as I'm being on the "other team"
[10:35] <Dvalin> you  said there was no other patches it depended on, but I feail to see thjat acgtually being trutgh :(
[10:36] <Dvalin> fabbione promised to help me out one day with these things, I hope you have the kindness and all to help me look into it too :)
[10:37] <Dvalin> _(basically is' the mandriva sparc port, so that might be some conflict of interest, but hey, it's all linux, right?:)
[10:40] <Dvalin> (I also hato to be of bother, so pleaqse tell me to fuckk of if you get annoyed, Ir eallt don't want to be that guy)
[10:53] <doko_> $ ls debian/patches/*sparc*
[10:53] <doko_> debian/patches/sparc-biarch.dpatch       debian/patches/sparc-niagara.dpatch
[10:53] <doko_> debian/patches/sparc-g7.dpatch           debian/patches/sparc64-build.dpatch
[10:53] <doko_> debian/patches/sparc-niagara-doc.dpatch
[10:53] <doko_> did you check these patches?
[11:07] <Dvalin> es
[11:07] <Dvalin> I h<ve them all appplied witr hout no louck :(*
[11:12] <doko_> hmm, and how do you configure?
[11:43] <Dvalin> lemme see
[01:41] <Dvalin>     echo "running ${CONFIG_SHELL-/bin/sh} ../configure   --prefix=/usr --libexecdir=/usr/lib --with-slibdir=/lib64 --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --enable-checking=release --host=sparcv9-mandriva-linux-gnu --with-long-double-128 --with-cpu=v8 --with-system-zlib --disable-libgcj --enable-ssp --disable-libssp --disable-libmudflap --enable-languages=c --no-create --no-recursion"
[02:14] <doko> we don't configure with --host, our default compiler is 32bit
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> I thought Ubuntu didn't use the .50 branch of binutils?
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> Feisty seems to have it
[07:49] <Keybuk> what made you think that?
[07:50] <elmo> possibly because I've said loudly before that I think using h.j.lu's binutils is something best left to lunatics
[07:50] <elmo> (and although I'm nothing to do with binutils in Ubuntu, my name is on the package from Debian)
[07:50] <bluefoxicy> yes that
[07:50] <bluefoxicy> well
[07:51] <bluefoxicy> it seems that nothing in Feisty is built using --hash-style=both (fedora core 6 does this IIRC); if you're gonna use a binutils that supports it, you should really look into building with -Wl,--hash-style=both
[07:52] <bluefoxicy> http://lwn.net/Articles/192624/  <-- dynsort and precomputed hashes are what you get from this
[07:52] <bluefoxicy> But I'll leave that up to you
[07:53] <bluefoxicy> hmm... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyToolchainRoadmap does mention DT_GNU_HASH support.