[00:30] <homebrewcider> hey there, got a new video card, did the <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg> thing, on restart the graphic is in 800x600, seemed much better beore I did the <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg> thing
[00:32] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: when you do it, it lets you choose the resolutions that will be available, and also to configure your monitor screen
[00:32] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: make sure you picked them correctly
[00:33] <homebrewcider> I chose relevant resolutions, nothing too extravagant
[00:33] <homebrewcider> it seems to be reverting to a "failsafe"
[00:33] <TheSheep> what about the monitor? it asks at some point whether to write the synch ranges to the files, it's better to answer no at that point
[00:34] <TheSheep> ah
[00:34] <TheSheep> then the driver you have chosen doesn't work for some reason
[00:34] <TheSheep> what card is that?
[00:34] <homebrewcider> asus en 8800gt, it just identified it as nvidia
[00:35] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: there should be a 'restricted driver manager' in your menu, under system
[00:36] <homebrewcider> tried that
[00:36] <TheSheep> did it install the driver
[00:36] <TheSheep> ?
[00:36] <homebrewcider> says "Your hardware does not need any restricted drivers"
[00:36] <TheSheep> ok, then it's not nvidia :/
[00:37] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: what does 'lspci | grep VGA' say?
[00:38] <homebrewcider> <02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Unknown device 0611 (rev a2)>
[00:38] <TheSheep> weird
[00:38] <TheSheep> well, try 'sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx', this is the proprietary driver that nvidia provides
[00:39] <homebrewcider> I wasn't having this problem BEFORE I did the <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg>
[00:39] <homebrewcider> gtting that now
[00:41] <homebrewcider> that's finished
[00:41] <homebrewcider> log out and back in?
[00:41] <TheSheep> now run that reconfigure again, select the 'nvidia' driver, all defaults, and to not write the sync ranges
[00:41] <homebrewcider> ok
[00:43] <homebrewcider> did that
[00:44] <TheSheep> ok, alt+ctrl+backspace will restart X, the graphical environemnt
[00:44] <TheSheep> 9it will also log you out)
[00:44] <homebrewcider> ok
[00:45] <homebrewcider> no, same deal, it's actually 640x480
[00:47] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: can you pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[00:47] <homebrewcider> sure
[00:48] <homebrewcider> http://pastebin.ca/988921
[00:49] <TheSheep> ok, it uses driver 'nv', try using the driver 'nvidia'
[00:49] <TheSheep> is should have appeared on the list after you installed nvidia-glx
[00:50] <homebrewcider> http://pastebin.ca/988927
[00:51] <homebrewcider> ok
[00:51] <homebrewcider> logging out, brb
[00:53] <homebrewcider> hmmm
[00:53] <TheSheep> any luck?
[00:53] <homebrewcider> no
[00:53] <TheSheep> can you also pastebin the /var/log/Xorg.0.log.last ?
[00:53] <homebrewcider> I redid the reconfigure, selected nvidia, not nv
[00:56] <homebrewcider> http://pastebin.ca/988933
[00:56] <TheSheep> this looks good
[01:00] <TheSheep> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=675453&highlight=8800gt
[01:01] <homebrewcider> http://pastebin.ca/988942
[01:02] <homebrewcider> hmm, set res in reconf to 1280x1024 only?
[01:03] <TheSheep> wait, they tell to install the 'sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new'
[01:03] <TheSheep> that's the driver for the most recent cards
[01:03] <TheSheep> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=665018
[01:03] <homebrewcider> I'll do that first then? new?
[01:04] <TheSheep> it will uninstall nvidia-glx and install nvidia-glx-new
[01:04] <homebrewcider> ok
[01:05] <TheSheep> you might need a reboot after that, the old nvidia module may be still in memory
[01:06] <homebrewcider> ok
[01:06] <homebrewcider> cheers
[01:27] <Mannequin> hi
[01:28] <Mannequin> is there any easy way to generate a list of current installed (by me) software. I ask because I'm going to format in few days (and then install the about to come Ubuntu version)
[01:29] <zoredache> there is a way to show all installed software... do a (dpkg --get-selections) in a terminal
[01:30] <zoredache> there is probably a way (but I don't know how) to dump the apt database that records if a package was installed automatically or manually
[01:30] <TheSheep> it's in /var/lib/apt/extended_states
[01:31] <Mannequin> ok, thanks
[01:32] <Mannequin> is it worth to delete hidden files (usually config files) in my user's home directory before re-installing? (I mean, to avoid conflicts, if any)
[01:32] <TheSheep> Mannequin: shouldn't be any conflicts
[01:33] <Mannequin> TheSheep: thanks
[01:34] <Mannequin> TheSheep: you say there is a way to filter apps installed by me?
[01:34] <zoredache> Mannequin: look at that file... anything with auto-installed: 0 is a manuall install
[01:37] <TheSheep> zoredache: the ones with auto-installed:0 are not listed there, I'm afraid
[01:38] <TheSheep> so filtering it would be non-trivial
[01:38] <zoredache> actually it should be easier that way
[01:43] <zoredache> so something like ---   cat /var/lib/apt/extended_states | grep 'Package: ' | sed 's/Package: //' > /tmp/theautostuff  ; dpkg --get-selections | grep -v -f /tmp/theautostuff
[02:23] <freerise> it sats in synaptics man page "A manual with detailed instructions can be found in the help menu of Synaptic."  how do i access this help menu?
[02:24] <freerise> it says*
[02:27] <xxxxxxx> I have an intel video card how do i check for the latest driver?
[02:28] <xxxxxxx> I am running opengl 1.4 and need 2.0 is there a way to find out if my card supports it?
[02:35] <freerise> back to reading man pages and such
[02:35] <freerise> later
[03:10] <lobazo> I have a problem with the oxford advanced learner's dictionary. The fonts are smaller. There is a carpet of the program with the fonts but i don't know how can i change it
[03:24] <lobazo> ok other question. my screen resolution it's ok but in the starting of xubuntu change to other resolution an after session manager the resolution is good
[03:24] <lobazo> what i have to do?
[05:42] <godlygeek> for the life of me, i can't figure out where the default system menu comes from, but i'm trying to figure out why Accessories/Terminal doesn't respect /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator - can anyone give me a pointer?
[07:36] <Johninky> hello all
[07:39] <Johninky> Can I ask a quick question please, might take a long answer
[07:42] <The-Kernel> Johninky aure
[07:43] <Johninky> what is aure???
[07:43] <The-Kernel> its a typo for "sure"
[07:44] <Johninky> i was wanting to know how to write driver for my wireless card
[07:45] <The-Kernel> how to write a driver?!
[07:45] <Johninky> yes
[07:45] <The-Kernel> Well...I'd suggest you first see if there's on for your card already.
[07:46] <The-Kernel> if not, then I suggest you visit the ubuntu-devel or xubuntu-devel channels
[07:47] <Johninky> Yea there is one for windows it is a .inf file but I can not get it to load or I really might know how to do it right
[07:47] <The-Kernel> you tried ndiswrapper?
[07:47] <The-Kernel> !ndiswrapper
[07:47] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[07:48] <Johninky> I have tried ndisgtk and ndiswrapper
[07:48] <The-Kernel> Well, then it just might be that your card is not supported....what kind is it?
[07:49] <Johninky> dynex dx-wgdtc
[07:49] <Johninky> wireless g card
[07:50] <Johninky> I have spent a week to get the defalt to load
[07:51] <zoredache> why not just by a  working card?
[07:51] <zoredache> buy*
[07:52] <Johninky> I thought I did, I bought another card it is a netgear wn311b
[07:52] <Johninky> it is a wireless n card
[07:53] <Johninky> it say on the box that it works with unix
[07:56] <Johninky> thank you for your help I have moved over to ubuntu-devel to see if I can get more help ther and thank you again
[09:26] <homebrewcider> ok, new video card, asus en8800gt, <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg>, the result is 640x480 res,  sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new, <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg>, restart, still the same. anybody got any ideas
[10:09] <homebrewcider> anybody?
[10:12] <gynterk> Hello, Xubuntu 7.10, any ideas why I can play some wma files and some not?
[10:12] <homebrewcider> drm issue maybe gynterk?
[10:13] <gynterk> hmm
[10:13] <gynterk> might be indeed
[10:13] <gynterk> but in Win those files worked correctly
[10:13] <gynterk> wint mediaplayer
[10:14] <gynterk> I also have "License Backup" from windows
[10:16] <gynterk> so is there a way to get those files working again?
[10:16] <gynterk> I'm really not up to re-rip all those CD-s :P
[10:16] <gynterk> ~3000 songs
[10:16] <homebrewcider> convert the lot to mp3
[10:17] <gynterk> but converting to mp3 doesn't have drm issue ?
[10:17] <gynterk> or ogg
[10:17] <homebrewcider> worth a shot with one of the affected songs for starters
[10:17] <gynterk> hmm but converting to mp3 or ogg means also loss
[10:19] <gynterk> but does the DRM thing depend on audio-player?
[10:19] <homebrewcider> dunno
[10:19] <gynterk> Currently I'm using audacious, but in Debian with Amarok it was okay
[10:24] <homebrewcider> new video card, asus en8800gt, <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg>, the result is 640x480 res, sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new, <sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg>, restart, still the same. anybody got any ideas
[11:08] <homebrewcider> does anybody have a EN8800GT installed in Xubuntu?
[11:08] <ablomen> homebrewcider, i have a gts, dunno if it makes much difference
[11:09] <homebrewcider> got nvidia drivers working?
[11:09] <ablomen> yep without a problem
[11:09] <homebrewcider> can I ask how? I'm having all sorts of problems
[11:10] <ablomen> i just installed the -new drivers, manually set the driver to nvidia and fine-tuned everything with nvidia-settings
[11:10] <homebrewcider>  sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new
[11:10] <homebrewcider> did that
[11:10] <homebrewcider> ight so far?
[11:10] <homebrewcider> right so far?
[11:11] <ablomen> yeah
[11:11] <homebrewcider> then what? did you do the dpkg command?
[11:12] <ablomen> then just open /etc/X11/xorg.conf in the text-editor of your preference (with sudo) and search for the word Driver
[11:12] <ablomen> that should end up looking like this:        Driver          "nvidia"
[11:12] <homebrewcider> mine does
[11:13] <ablomen> ok well then you can try setting a different resolution in nvidia-settings (with sudo again)
[11:13] <homebrewcider> nvidia settings?
[11:13] <ablomen> yeah just run `sudo nvidia-settings` in a terminal
[11:14] <homebrewcider> mmm, I'll be back
[11:14] <homebrewcider> thanx
[11:14] <ablomen> ok good luck
[11:15] <homebrewcider> You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server.
[11:15] <homebrewcider> <Section "Device"
[11:15] <homebrewcider>     Identifier     "EN8800GT"
[11:15] <homebrewcider>     Driver         "nvidia"
[11:15] <homebrewcider> EndSection>
[11:16] <homebrewcider> that's from my xorg.conf
[11:16] <ablomen> hmm did you restart X ?
[11:16] <homebrewcider> hang on
[11:17] <ablomen> yay for restarting without me telling him he should modprobe the module too \o/
[11:20] <homebrewcider> no still no joy
[11:20] <ablomen> did you see an nvidia logo when X started?
[11:20] <homebrewcider> no
[11:20] <ablomen> and did you restart your computer or only X?
[11:21] <homebrewcider> tried both
[11:22] <homebrewcider> it's saying I'm not using the NVIDIA X driver, capital letters, inmy xorg.conf file nvidia is in lower case,
[11:22] <ablomen> hmm what output do you get if you enter `lsmod  | grep nvidia` in a terminal?
[11:23] <homebrewcider> <nvidia               6221648  0
[11:23] <homebrewcider> agpgart                35016  1 nvidia
[11:23] <homebrewcider> i2c_core               26112  2 nvidia,i2c_nforce2>
[11:24] <ablomen> hmm
[11:24] <ablomen> well sorry i dont know then, not i problem i ever had
[11:24] <ablomen> you could try #ubuntu
[11:24] <homebrewcider> ok
[11:24] <homebrewcider> cheers
[11:24] <ablomen> good luck homebrewcider
[11:42] <heno> is anyone here able to perform xubuntu gutsy -> hardy upgrade tests?
[11:42] <heno> and ideally dapper -> hardy
[11:42] <heno> i386 and amd64
[11:43] <heno> those are listed on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com but look unlikely to get coverage
[11:44] <heno> we have done extensive upgrade tests generally though with lots of packages installed, including the xfce stuff
[11:45] <heno> so unless someone wants to do those tests specifically, I'm inclined to just hide the entries in the tracker
[11:47] <pulseezar> heya, cansomeone recommend a good bit torrent client to use with xubuntu, I can't find any one synaptic.
[11:53] <TheSheep> I believe transmission is installed by default in hardy
[11:53] <Iskr> transmission is also "in synaptic" in gutsy
[12:00] <gynterk> i have a problem, Xubuntu 7.10
[12:00] <gynterk> If i connect my mp3player I can't see it
[12:00] <gynterk> tail -f /var/log/messages: Apr 18 14:00:06 pupsik kernel: [ 8320.074930] usb 3-1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 10
[12:00] <gynterk> and thats all
[12:01] <gynterk> Player is Apacer AudioSteno AS820
[12:02] <gynterk> odd
[12:02] <gynterk> now it found
[12:02] <gynterk> hmm
[12:02] <gynterk> okay
[12:02] <gynterk> thanks anyway :P
[13:34] <NekoKun> Can I somehow list the installed packages and the space used by them? I've installed xUbuntu, but I want to slim it down
[13:44] <kennethr> does xubuntu benefit from ubuntu's LTS rating of a release?  ie. will xubuntu 8.04 have the same support model as ubuntu 8.04?
[13:45] <kennethr> LTS?
[13:47] <TheSheep> kennethr: no
[13:48] <TheSheep> kennethr: well, it benefits indirectly, as it is based on ubuntu
[13:48] <TheSheep> kennethr: but there is no commercial support for xubuntu, so obviously there is also no lts
[13:48] <kennethr> TheSheep: ok, maybe I don't understand lts.
[13:50] <kennethr> TheSheep: will software updates for xubuntu 8.04 be released for a longer period of time than 7.10?  what about ubuntu 8.04 lts vs. 7.10?
[13:51] <Helsu> Are there no FTP servers for Xubuntu?
[13:51] <Helsu> Because I don't find ANY FTP servers when I search for ftp server in add/remove. Just apps for administering servers and FTP clients.
[13:52] <TheSheep> kennethr: xubuntu will use all the pathes released for ubuntu, they share a common base
[13:52] <TheSheep> !ftp
[13:52] <ubotu> FTP clients: !Nautilus, !gFTP (for !GNOME) - !Konqueror, !Kasablanca, !KFTPGrabber (for !KDE) - See also !FTPd
[13:53] <TheSheep> !ftpd
[13:53] <ubotu> FTP servers: ftpd, proftpd, pure-ftpd, twoftpd, vsftpd, MuddleFTPd, wzdftpd - Graphical front-ends: PureAdmin, GProftpd (for GNOME), KcmPureftpd (for !KDE) - See also !FTP
[13:54] <Helsu> How can  I easily set a particular APP to autoboot?
[13:54] <Helsu> Preferably without the use of a command line
[13:56] <Helsu> I can't find anyo of these (proftpd, pure-ftpd, twoftpd, vsftpd, MuddleFTPd, wzdftpd), and ftpd is only available as a server manager
[13:57] <TheSheep> Helsu: they are not in synaptic?
[13:57] <Helsu> They are not in add/remove applications, no
[13:58] <TheSheep> Helsu: add/remove applications contains just a few most poular desktop applications, use synaptic
[14:01] <Helsu> Do you know which of these "proftpd, pure-ftpd, twoftpd, vsftpd, MuddleFTPd and wzdftpd" have a GUI?
[14:05] <TheSheep> Helsu: none, they are servers
[14:06] <Helsu> right
[14:06] <TheSheep> there separate 'graphical frontends' for managing them
[14:06] <TheSheep> they are listed in that factoid
[14:07] <Helsu> but i can configure them from a GUI?
[14:07] <TheSheep> yes, with those frontends
[14:09] <Helsu> from windows too?
[14:09] <TheSheep> no
[14:10] <TheSheep> unless you use something like vnc
[14:10] <TheSheep> to run that gui app on the linux but display on windows
[14:10] <Helsu> ok
[14:10] <Helsu> do you know of an app that i can install from synaptic
[14:10] <Helsu> just set up a password
[14:11] <Helsu> then i can turn this machine off
[14:11] <Helsu> put it in another room, boot it there
[14:11] <Helsu> and have a remote desktop over lan using tightvnc?
[14:11] <TheSheep> !vnc
[14:11] <ubotu> VNC is a protocol for remote desktop. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNCOverSSH describes how to use it securely.  It works best over fast connections, otherwise look at !FreeNX
[14:11] <TheSheep> this howto should be helpful
[14:13] <Helsu> ok
[14:14] <Helsu> i set the server packages for install in synaptic
[14:15] <Helsu> by the way how is xubuntu with oki?
[14:15] <Helsu> good support?
[14:15] <TheSheep> oki?
[14:16] <TheSheep> ah, printers?
[14:16] <Helsu> yeah
[14:16] <TheSheep> no idea, I guess it dpends on the model, there is a hardware compatibility list on the ubuntu wiki, you can also check the forums
[14:16] <Helsu> ok
[14:16] <Helsu> now i'll try to shut this desktop down
[14:16] <Helsu> boot it
[14:17] <Helsu> and try to connect with tightvnc from my laptop
[14:17] <Helsu> without doing anything at the desktop
[14:17] <Helsu> thanks for your help for now.
[14:23] <homebrewcider> anybody got a en8800gt video card installed that could help me please?
[14:24] <Helsu> ok, i couldn't connect. i entered my hostname (hjemmeserver)
[14:24] <Helsu> just typing that in tightvnc worked yesterday with another app
[14:24] <Helsu> !vnc
[14:24] <ubotu> VNC is a protocol for remote desktop. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNCOverSSH describes how to use it securely.  It works best over fast connections, otherwise look at !FreeNX
[14:25] <Helsu> is is suppose to be auto-booted, right?
[14:25] <Helsu> the vnc server
[14:29] <nyn84> hi everyone, I have a question about xubuntu
[14:29] <TheSheep> Helsu: I think you need to enable it
[14:29] <TheSheep> !ask | nyn84
[14:29] <ubotu> nyn84: Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
[14:31] <nyn84> I have a usb mouse connected to my notebook and once in a while it just stops working, I wonder what kind of command I should use to check if theres something wrong with the drivers
[14:31] <Helsu> It works with this app I got from add/remove, it's called KDE desktop sharing
[14:31] <TheSheep> nyn84: dmesg | tail will show you last kernel messges
[14:31] <Helsu> it works brilliant
[14:31] <Helsu> the only problem is it doesn't auto-boot
[14:32] <TheSheep> nyn84: lsusb will giv you the list of connected usb devices
[14:32] <Helsu> Is there any way you can help me get it to automatically start?
[14:32] <nyn84> lsusb tells me the mouse is recognized even when it doesn't work, and should I use that other command right now or just when it stopped working again?
[14:33] <TheSheep> Helsu: maybe try checking system->services
[14:34] <TheSheep> Helsu: and enabling it in there
[14:35] <Helsu> i it isn't there
[14:36] <TheSheep> :/
[14:36] <TheSheep> Helsu: what are you doing to start it?
[14:37] <Helsu> I go to applications/network
[14:38] <Helsu> alternatively i can enable the other server thing i instaleld from the wiki
[14:38] <Helsu> i've only done the thing under SSH, but i don't care about the encryption
[14:38] <Helsu> How can I alternatively enable the server? Not the KDE thing
[14:39] <TheSheep> it's not listed in services either?
[14:40] <Helsu> no
[14:41] <nyn84> anymore thoughts on the usb thing?
[14:41] <TheSheep> Helsu: I'm sorry, I never played with this, the wiki and forums may have some answers
[14:42] <TheSheep> nyn84: anything I can think of is to look for suspicious messages in dmesg
[14:42] <nyn84> yeah, I guess I'll have to wait then ^^
[14:44] <nyn84> I've got another one though: I managed to create a key shortcut for the windows key, however I have two press it twice to execute the assigned action, how do I change that, so that pressin once will do the same thing?
[14:47] <TheSheep> I usually worked around that by editing the .config/xfce4/shortcuts/*.xml file directly
[14:50] <nyn84>  I cannot find that folder
[14:50] <TheSheep> all files starting with a period are hidden
[14:51] <TheSheep> enable displaying of hidden files in Thunar by pressing ctrl+h or selecting it from menu
[14:52] <nyn84> did that but it still doesn't show
[14:56] <nyn84> where is the .config directory located? in / ?
[14:56] <TheSheep> nyn84: in your home directory
[14:57] <nyn84> yeah when you know where to look you find things XD
[14:58] <nyn84> okay, I've got the file now and it says basically the same thing the GUI keyboard settings
[14:59] <nyn84> <shortcut command="xfce4-terminal" keys="Super+Super_L"/>
[14:59] <TheSheep> nyn84: yes, but now you can edit the shortcut to read "Super" instead of "Super+Super_L"
[15:00] <nyn84> <shortcut command="xfce4-terminal" keys="Super"/>
[15:00] <TheSheep> nyn84: the Super keys are weird because they can be used both as "shift" key and alone
[15:00] <TheSheep> yes
[15:00] <nyn84> that did not help
[15:01] <nyn84> now pressing the key does nothing
[15:01] <TheSheep> :/
[15:02] <TheSheep> what if you put Super_L in there?
[15:03] <nyn84> no
[15:03] <nyn84> still have to press twice
[15:03] <nyn84> or again ^^
[15:03] <nyn84> ha
[15:03] <nyn84> wait
[15:03] <nyn84> it did work ^^
[15:04] <nyn84> thank you very much
[15:04] <TheSheep> :)
[15:06] <nyn84> btw I thing it has a nice subtext to it to have the windows key open a terminal XD
[15:06] <nyn84> *think
[15:07] <Helsu> sheep
[15:07] <Helsu> do you know how i can make the thing you linked to me autoboot then?
[15:07] <Helsu> or be enabled?
[15:07] <TheSheep> Helsu: the vlc?
[15:08] <TheSheep> Helsu: sorry, vnc?
[15:09] <Helsu> yes
[15:09] <TheSheep> Helsu: I'm sorry, maybe someone else here, you could also ask in #ubuntu, it's a general thing I think
[15:09] <Helsu> ok
[15:10] <Helsu> but from my experience my question will drown in there
[15:10] <TheSheep> yeah, it's very busy
[15:10] <TheSheep> you could also post a question on forum
[15:13] <nyn84> TheSheep: are you in the mood for another one?
[15:13] <TheSheep> nyn84: shoot
[15:13] <TheSheep> btw, I'm not the only user here, you know
[15:13] <nyn84> yeah but you're the only one who's talking ^
[15:25] <nyn85> sorry, my connection broke
[15:26] <nyn85> TheSheep: are you still there?
[15:26] <TheSheep> yes
[15:27] <nyn85> did you say anything after I described the problem?
[15:29] <floating> err hi. how do i run a terminal from a terminal
[15:30] <nyn85> xfce4-terminal
[15:30] <floating> thx
[15:30] <TheSheep> nyn85: last thing you said was "16:13 < nyn84> yeah but you're the only one who's talking ^
[15:30] <nyn85> oh so the connection was already gone then
[15:31] <nyn85> I've been trying to install this black theme: http://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php/My+OLD+themes?content=79038  ; but I did not do it right apparently, it does show up in the user interface settings, but blue not black and it does not show up in the window manager
[15:32] <nyn85> the file contains a lot of archives and I'm not sure whihch to put where
[15:33] <nyn85> I guess with the blue thing that I put the wrong file into it, since there's also a blue theme in th package
[15:34] <nyn85> but why wouldn't it appear in the window manager as well?
[15:35] <TheSheep> nyn85: I guess you need to unpack the NovumOs-gtk2 archive to your .themes
[15:35] <TheSheep> nyn85: the window manager theme is for metacity, so it won't work with xfce
[15:36] <TheSheep> nyn85: but the gtk theme and wallpapers will
[15:36] <nyn85> does that mean the windows will keep looking as they are now?
[15:36] <TheSheep> nyn85: the gdm theme can be installed by dragging-and-dropping the archive into the login window settings  program
[15:37] <nyn85> let's go step by step: I unpacked the Novum-file, it contains 4 more archives
[15:38] <nyn85> do all of these need to be unpacked in the .themes folder?
[15:39] <TheSheep> no, just the -gtk2 one
[15:39] <TheSheep> yes, the window borders won't change
[15:41] <nyn85> ok I unpacked that file into the .themes
[15:41] <nyn85> where do the other ones go?
[15:41] <TheSheep> it should now appear in the user interface settings
[15:42] <nyn85> yes it does
[15:42] <TheSheep> for the gdm theme, open the settings->login window settings, and dragn-and-drop the archive into the theme list
[15:42] <TheSheep> the third one, for metacity, is useless for xfce
[15:43] <nyn85> thats too bad
[15:44] <nyn85> what about the 4th?
[15:44] <TheSheep> I only see 3
[15:45] <TheSheep> -gdm, -gtk2 and -rounded
[15:45] <nyn85> wait a sec, I'll make a list
[15:46] <nyn85> logo.png           NovumOS-GDM.tar.gz   NovumOS-Rounded.tar.gz  Walls
[15:46] <nyn85> NovumOS.cgwdtheme  NovumOS-gtk2.tar.gz  NovumOS-Splash.png
[15:46] <nyn85> see the cgwdtheme ?
[15:47] <TheSheep> ah, no idea what that is :)
[15:47] <nyn85> XD
[15:47] <TheSheep> splash won't work for xfce either
[15:47] <TheSheep> no, wait, you can set it as image
[15:47] <TheSheep> in one of the splash engines in splash settings
[15:48] <nyn85> splash means splash screen in this case?
[15:48] <TheSheep> yes, xubuntu has it normally disabled
[15:49] <nyn85> yeah I don't need that anyway
[15:49] <homebrewcider> 	can someone please help me get this en8800gt card working in linux please
[15:49] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: you could try with the binary drivers from nvidia site
[15:49] <TheSheep> !nvidia
[15:49] <ubotu> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[15:50] <nyn85> its weird though; I got this theme from the xfce-look page, so why would there be a theme thats no use under xfce?
[15:50] <homebrewcider> doesn't seem to want to work
[15:50] <nyn85> I mean the picture sure is pretty XD
[15:50] <homebrewcider> did the binary thing
[15:50] <TheSheep> nyn85: well, part of it works, I guess he uploaded it to both xfce-look and gnome-look
[15:51] <nyn85> yeah but it does look quite stupid right now ^^
[15:51] <nyn85> but anyway, no I know where everything goes
[15:52] <nyn85> one last thing though: if there were an archive that would change the theme for the windows as well, what would it be named?
[15:52] <nyn85> (just to make sure the next theme I download contains everything I need)
[15:53] <TheSheep> nyn85: I guess -xfwm4
[15:53] <TheSheep> nyn85: it would contain the 'themerc' file
[15:53] <TheSheep> and some pictures
[15:54] <nyn85> well then many thanks again, you've been extremely helpful
[15:55] <homebrewcider> it's late here, I'll work on this tomorow...................................
[16:20] <floating> this step dont work on my xubuntu https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Japanese_Input_and_Fonts_in_Ubuntu_7.10_using_SCIM#head-0401ff0f4ac4c61dc1e3971fc2a1d333e35ed708
[16:21] <floating> there is no such file as 74custom-scim_startup
[18:35] <soren> Does seahorse-agent not ask you guys for ssh passphrases either or is it just me?
[18:38] <TheSheep> soren: it might ask for one when it needs to get the password for your wifi, for example
[20:14] <grothesk> Hi
[20:15] <grothesk> Will an upgrade from Dapper to Hardy be possible?
[20:15] <grothesk> And do I use update-manager in order to do so?
[20:15] <The_kernel> grothesk: without format and reinstall, not likely.
[20:15] <The_kernel> I couldn't get to feisty from dapper
[20:15] <grothesk> Oh.
[20:16] <grothesk> Are the differences bigger in xubuntu than in ubuntu or kubuntu?
[20:16] <grothesk> Becaus these two support jumping from Dapper to Hardy
[20:20] <TheSheep> jumping from dapper to hardy will be made possible -- they are both lts versions
[20:22] <jarnos> Hello. Is there some dropped support of old hardware in Hardy?
[20:31] <grothesk> Hm.... Is TheSheep right or is The-Kernel right? :-)
[20:31] <initwit> instead of synaptic'ing myself into an early grave, wouldn't it be easier for me to just download a cp of gubuntu, kubuntu and any other ubuntu?
[20:36] <The_kernel> grothesk: TheSheep is right
[20:38] <initwit> it started so simply, i just wanted to compile mc, and one thing led to another and synaptic advised that i install/upgrade 129 megs of stuff.
[20:40] <TheSheep> initwit: why didn't you install mc from the repo?
[20:40] <initwit> i did, at first. but i like to turn off the mouse in gpm
[20:41] <initwit> so i needed to run ./configure
[20:44] <initwit> but i do want to install a bunch of gnome stuff, so maybe i can just dl gubuntu
[20:45] <initwit> TheSheep: this is my slackware fs. when i am 'freerise' i am running xubuntu
[20:49] <grothesk> Will an upgrade from dapper to hardy be done by the official updatetool? (If there is any in xubuntu)
[20:52] <TheSheep> grothesk: most likely
[21:46] <hhlp> hi., how i can see my networks machines in xubuntu ?
[21:59] <TheSheep> hhlp: what kind of network?
[22:00] <hhlp> TheSheep, i want to see al my machine in the network one machine with xubuntu and another with winxp i install samba and nfs but i cant find how to see the xp machine in ubuntu
[22:02] <TheSheep> hhlp: http://grumpymole.blogspot.com/2006/12/xubuntu-browsing-samba-shares-with.html
[22:04] <hhlp> thx TheSheep
[22:25] <progek> Hi room, I just installed xubuntu and am trying to connect to my router (wireless card). I can connect to non secured networks fine, but not mine (WPA). I'm using Wicd to try and connect, but it hangs on "obtaining ip address"
[22:26] <progek> My other computer can connect fine through wireless.


[09:24] <gmb> allenap: Can you take another look at https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/maas/fix-null-when-releasing-ip-bug-1383668/+merge/239034 when you get chance?
[09:29] <allenap> gmb: Certainly can.
[14:24] <mattyw> Hi Folks, question: Currently using maas 1.7 with some kvm nodes. If I add a nic recommissioning the node should be enough for maas to see the new mac address right?
[14:47] <mattyw> allenap, ping?
[15:09] <caribou> which PPA should I use to *safely* test 1.7beta ?
[15:11] <lutostag> jacekn: juju set oil-ci-jenkins/0 public_url="https://oil-jenkins.canonical.com/" # maybe
[15:31] <allenap> mattyw: Yes, should be.
[15:56] <mattyw> allenap, if recommissioning doesn't find them what's should I be doing to debug?
[15:56] <mattyw> allenap, (which log files should I be looking at)


[01:25] <nemo> mcphail: pong
[01:26] <nemo> hm bit late sorry, but did you get a verbose log?
[02:31] <mcphail> nemo: if it is helpful, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12412453/ is all I got. Off to bed now
[02:40] <nemo> kk
[02:40] <nemo> gn
[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:01] <aquarius> appdevs, I'm trying to build an app and am having problems with cmake stuff; http://paste.ubuntu.com/12416080/ shows the error, and indeed "/var/lib/schroot/chroots/click-ubuntu-sdk-14.10-armhf/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/bin/moc" does not exist. What do I need to install to get it?
[08:30] <aquarius> ah, fixed
[08:30] <mcphail> what was the problem?
[08:31] <mcphail> (I'd have thought moc would be installed by standard in the chroots...)
[08:31] <aquarius> so would I
[08:32] <aquarius> apt-get install qtbase5-dev-tools:armhf got what was needed
[08:32] <mcphail> maybe worth a bug report?
[08:34] <aquarius> no idea whether it's a bug, or my setup, or what. A bug report would be useless; I can't report back on whether a fix fixed it
[08:35] <aquarius> currently being frustrated by: "lint_hooks_multiple_apps: more than one desktop app specified in hooks"
[08:35] <aquarius> which is a stupid error because it's preventing me from building a package which works fine!
[08:35] <mcphail> aquarius: yes - these appear to be banned
[08:35] <aquarius> yes, I'm specifying more than one desktop app because I have more than one desktop app in my package, which works fine and is allowed!
[08:37] <mcphail> aquarius: I did work out an exploit for the multiple apps thing, so they are probably banned for good reason
[08:39] <mcphail> aquarius: http://themcphails.uk/leakytrust.njmcphail_0.1_armhf.click is an example where you can leak information from one trusted app to another which has network permissions
[08:41] <mcphail> (open the trusted one then the malicious one and look at the logs)
[08:42] <aquarius> indeed. The point of having multiple apps is that they can share information.
[10:00] <mcphail> aquarius: yes, but the problem is the multiple apps don't have to have the same security permissions, hence information can leak/be leaked from an app the user trusts
[10:47] <t1mp> what should happen when an app changes the height of the header? should it always show?
[10:49] <aquarius> t1mp, I don't think I can see why changing the header height should change its behaviour?
[10:52] <t1mp> aquarius: well there are some corner cases, for example to expose the header you have to drag the linked flickable for at least half of the header's height
[10:53] <t1mp> aquarius: so increasing the header height might bring you in a state where you cannot easily expose the header by dragging any more
[10:53] <t1mp> I could just check for that case
[10:53] <aquarius> You can legitimately limit the header's height so it can't be any more than, say, 50% of screen, I would think
[10:53] <t1mp> and in other cases keep the header hidden/exposed as it was before changing the header height
[10:53] <aquarius> since a header which is 60% of my screen is in no meaningful way a header :)
[10:54] <t1mp> aquarius: I'm working on a new Header component that app developers may want to abuse in ways that I did not consider useful
[10:54] <aquarius> also, I think that the amount you drag the flickable down to show the header ought to not vary with the header's height but with the screen's height, myself
[10:55] <t1mp> aquarius: currently when you drag the flickable, the header will move the same amount as the flickable
[10:55] <aquarius> yup
[10:55] <t1mp> aquarius: and when you release, the header will show/hide depending on whether it is more or less than half open
[10:55] <aquarius> and when a certain amount of the header has been pulled on screen, it will then be in "I get shown" mode when you let go, agreed
[10:56] <aquarius> but I think that the "certain amount" should be min(header.height/2, screen.height/10)
[10:56] <t1mp> aquarius: currently the certain amount is header.height/2, and nobody complained about it yet
[10:56] <aquarius> so I don't have to pull a large header further onto screen before it shows
[10:56] <aquarius> yeah, but nobody sets the header to be large, at the moment :)
[10:56] <aquarius> I didn't even know you *could* set the header height!
[10:57] <aquarius> and this is only a concern for large headers, right?
[10:57] <t1mp> aquarius: you cannot now, the new Header will be an Item that you can size the way you want
[10:57] <aquarius> *nod*
[10:58] <t1mp> aquarius: another issue is that if the flickable contentHeight is not much bigger than the flickable height, then its amount of flicking is limited, maybe less than header.height/2 or screen.height/10
[10:58] <aquarius> t1mp, and there's also a problem if the flickable is not the screen height
[10:58] <aquarius> that is: you have a header, then a flickable, then a static thing at the bottom of the screen
[10:59] <t1mp> that should work fine
[10:59] <aquarius> if the flickable can't be flicked the amount needed to make the header appear, then I'd say: the header always shows :)
[10:59] <t1mp> the header should not be above the flickable in y-direction though, but overlay it (in z-direction)
[10:59] <aquarius> mm... sorta
[10:59] <aquarius> I *constantly* have issues with that because the stuff at the top of my flickable ends up under the header :(
[11:00] <t1mp> brb, meeting
[11:33] <t1mp> aquarius: the header supposedly sets the topMargin of the Flickable to avoid that. When do you have problems with it?
[11:52] <aquarius> t1mp, next time I run into the issue I'll ping you about it and see what I'm doing wrong
[11:53] <t1mp> aquarius: ok, thansk
[11:53] <t1mp> *thanks
[11:53] <aquarius> Is it actually the truth that multiple apps in one click package are banned?
[12:01] <davmor2> popey: in the reminders app you setup for testing can you switch to local storage and try and set a reminder on a note please, I get a blank time and date wheel
[12:03] <popey> davmor2: ok, let me try
[12:06] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-09-15-130552.png
[12:06] <popey> wfm
[12:07] <davmor2> popey: cool might just be an issue here then I'll do a fresh install and see if something got screw up after Lunch
[12:07] <cwayne> aquarius: don't think so, i've got some in the store like that (well, a scope and a webapp in one click)
[12:08] <aquarius> cwayne, scope + app works, but two apps throws a lint error :(
[12:09] <aquarius> *and* there's no way to hide an app from the apps scope, either :(
[12:09] <cwayne> yeah, thats obnoxious
[12:31] <aquarius> cwayne, hence asking :)
[12:32] <cwayne> i hadnt realized of the lint errors, just that we couldnt hide apps :)
[12:39] <kenvandine> mzanetti, i pushed another revision of my twoeleven branch that updates all the sdk usage to 1.3 and fixes the UbuntuShape deprecation
[13:00] <mzanetti> kenvandine, thanks!
[13:03] <mzanetti> kenvandine, cann you please propose a MP with that branch?
[13:04] <kenvandine> mzanetti, i can't for +junk branches
[13:04] <kenvandine> i tried that last night :)
[13:05] <kenvandine> mzanetti, you should create a project for that
[13:05] <mzanetti> oh... right
[13:05] <mzanetti> :D
[13:40] <davmor2> popey: Meh fresh install and I still get this http://people.canonical.com/~davmor2/no-date.png
[13:41] <davmor2> popey: works in the clock app I assume it is the same element?
[13:42] <popey> hmmm
[13:44] <popey> davmor2: you're right, I had the wrong version of the click.
[13:45] <popey> mzanetti: ^
[13:46] <popey> davmor2: its only a problem on rc-proposed, on retail device it's fine
[13:47] <mzanetti> wat?
[13:48] <mzanetti> popey, is this a real problem?
[13:48] <popey> well, I can only reproduce it on rc-proposed which says it's probably a UITK issue
[13:48] <mzanetti> fwiw, don't see it here
[13:48] <popey> it's fine on my retail phone
[13:48] <mzanetti> I use rc-proposed
[13:49] <popey> davmor2: what you using?
[13:49] <davmor2> rc-proposed
[13:49] <davmor2> ubuntu-device-flash touch --bootstrap --channel ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/meizu.en --recovery-image recovery-arale.img
[13:49] <popey> I'm on krillin
[13:49]  * mzanetti on bq
[13:50] <mzanetti> does this onlyhappen with the qs-submitted click package or also with the publised one?
[13:50] <davmor2> no idea let me reflash
[13:51] <popey> lemme downgrade it on my phone to see
[13:53] <popey> version from the store on my rc-proposed phone is fine
[13:56] <davmor2> mzanetti: so the version on rc-proposed works as expected
[13:59] <popey> and if you upgrade, it breaks?
[14:02] <davmor2> popey: yeap
[14:02] <popey> davmor2: any chance you can file a bug and paste the app log file?
[14:03] <davmor2> popey: sure let me try stable first though
[14:03] <popey> kk
[14:04] <popey> if you could finish the QA and let us know if there's any other issues or if that's the only issue, that would be magic
[14:04] <davmor2> popey: will do
[14:08] <popey> thanks!
[14:12] <davmor2> popey, mzanetti: so it is working fine on stable.  I have a theory is rc proposed using 1.3 of the uitk and stable using 1.2?
[14:14] <popey> i see same version on both devices
[14:15] <davmor2> popey: so not that then
[14:31] <mzanetti> davmor2, it is using 1.3
[14:31] <mzanetti> davmor2, but on stable too ;)
[14:31] <mzanetti> davmor2, might mean 1.3 broke on rc-proposed
[14:32] <davmor2> mzanetti: yeah figured that out now it was just the only difference I could think of
[14:35] <mzanetti> davmor2, there's an upgrade to my phone... doing that now
[14:35] <mzanetti> let's see if I start hitting this
[14:36] <davmor2> mzanetti: I'm on image 113
[14:36] <mzanetti> those numbers are random to me
[14:38] <davmor2> mzanetti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12417883/
[14:39] <mzanetti> still not happening for me
[14:41] <mzanetti> davmor2, I might have spotted an issue from that log you pasted
[14:43] <davmor2> mzanetti: \o/
[14:52] <mzanetti> popey, can you please test it with this branch on a device where you can repro the issue: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/reminders-app/align-imports/+merge/271139
[14:52] <mzanetti> davmor2, ^
[14:56] <popey> mzanetti: yes.
[14:56] <popey> just building now
[14:56] <mzanetti> thanks
[15:00] <davmor2> meh sorry screen had blanked while I looked at the rest of the app, thanks popey
[15:11] <popey> mzanetti: nope, same issue
[15:12] <mzanetti> ok... I'm lost them... can't repro...
[15:12] <popey> file:///usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/Pickers/1.3/DatePicker.qml:592: TypeError: Cannot call method 'resetPicker' of null
[15:12] <mzanetti> that's an issue in the Picker itself
[15:12] <popey> ok
[15:33] <carlduke> check out my project IntelligentSecurity on github!! https://github.com/charslab/IntelligentSecurity
[15:33] <carlduke> its for ubuntu!
[15:33] <carlduke> facial recognition for security :D
[15:51] <balloons> ahayzen, ping
[15:51] <ahayzen> balloons, pong
[16:48] <davmor2> popey: I just realised it is the same on desktop already :(
[16:58] <popey> davmor2: "yay"
[17:12] <popey> davmor2: so, do we get a pass then?
[17:13] <davmor2> popey: nope can't create an account from the app, you tap the button nothing, was stuck in meetings so picked up again now
[17:14] <davmor2> popey: infact it crashes the app I can't do anything now :(
[17:14] <davmor2> back after tea
[17:18] <popey> kk
[17:55] <davmor2> popey: there is definitely something screwy going on here.  Because I selected no to the initial asking of setting up an account, when I go into the menu and select the add account button the ui hard freezes all I can do is close the app
[18:41] <davmor2> popey, mzanetti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/reminders-app/+bug/1496084 https://bugs.launchpad.net/reminders-app/+bug/1496086
[18:44] <davmor2> popey, mzanetti: oooohhhhh that's interesting, I just noticed checking against my ota6 device,  ON ota 6 if I goto settings→accounts evernote accounts shows notes,  on 0.5.490 it shows as com.ubuntu.reminders_reminders  I wonder if that is having any adverse effects on things like apparmor
[18:51] <aquarius> rschroll, well... it all works, here, as far as I can tell. The basics, anyway.  I want to submit my app I've been working on
[19:22] <aquarius> rschroll, also, the absolute-path-to-container-icon trick works too, although it is (again) rejected by lint, so we may not be actually able to do it
[19:31] <aquarius> rschroll, and they have semi-good reasons to reject it, too, admittedly.
[19:48] <rschroll> aquarius: Even if we get it in place with the absolute paths, I suspect the UI does its own caching.  Who knows when the updated image would actually be shown
[19:48] <aquarius> rschroll, this is true, actually
[19:49] <aquarius> rschroll, was nice to see that it worked, but I don't think it's a goer for us...
[19:49] <aquarius> rschroll, I think you're right though that we should give them all distinct icons so visual recognition kicks in
[19:50] <aquarius> annoyed that it can't be dynamic. It seems that people *want* dynamic icons -- the calendar and clock apps, for example -- and there may be some work going on to make that happen, and if it does we can take advantage of it
[19:51] <rschroll> With Beru, I've already done work on generating sensibly spaced colors.  We can probably use that to generate icons with the same pattern and different colors for all the containers.
[19:52] <rschroll> Scopes question for the floor: Is it possible to alter a result in an ActivationQueryBase::activate, to change the URL to be activated?
[19:53] <rschroll> Alternatively, is it possible to launch a URL from a scope programatically?
[19:54] <aquarius> t1mp, do you know about scope stuff? or is that all michi?
[19:56] <aquarius> mzanetti, do you know about the scope api?
[19:57] <mzanetti> depends on what
[19:57] <mzanetti> I have an idea... but not in detail
[19:57] <aquarius> mzanetti, see rschroll's question above, which we're trying to do :)
[19:59] <mzanetti> hmm... I think altering the result set should be possible, yes. haven't ever tried myself
[19:59] <mzanetti> launching programmatically should be possible too I think. however your code is only triggered on user interaction...
[19:59] <rschroll> I've tried result().set_uri(), but that doesn't seem to do anything
[20:00] <rschroll> I worry that it's operating on a copy
[20:00] <rschroll> What's going on in more detail:
[20:01] <rschroll> I have a result with a URL to be launched.  But when the result is activated, I want to run code in the activation handler to change that URL, to launch another app.
[20:01] <rschroll> I haven't been able to alter the uri, as noted above.
[20:01] <mzanetti> erm... why not just give the real target in the first place?
[20:02] <rschroll> We're planning an array of webapp containers, and we want to target a free one.
[20:02] <rschroll> The list of free containers may change between when the results are prepared and one is activated
[20:09] <aquarius> rschroll, I have had a thought. One can't start an app other than from the scope. So all that can happen in between the results being prepared and a result being activated is that the user kills one or more containers from the app switcher, right? But if that happens it doesn't invalidate the URLs because all that can happen is that the container we were targeting is now free?
[20:11] <rschroll> Suppose we launch one bookmark, switch back to the scope, and launch another.  I don't think the scope will refresh its results in between
[20:12] <rschroll> So all bookmarks other than the 15 most recent will be trying to use the same container, and will clobber each other until the scope is refreshed
[20:12] <aquarius> aah, yes. Unless we can command a refreshed query when an app is launched
[20:13] <aquarius> (which would also involve "run code after a thing is tapped on", although it wouldn't need access to the chosen URL)
[20:13] <rschroll> I've got code running as a result of the icon being selected.  (That's the activation function I mentioned.)
[20:14] <aquarius> ah, cool. Can that code clear the existing query or refresh it or something?
[20:14] <aquarius> or does that have the same "you don't have access to it from there" issue that ovewriting the URL does?
[20:15] <rschroll> We can perform a new query, which ought to refresh the list.  But I don't think we can do that and have the existing URL still load.
[20:15] <rschroll> Those are two different return codes for the function
[20:15] <aquarius> darnit
[20:17] <aquarius> mzanetti, who knows about this stuff in detail? I've sorta lost track. Is it just michi?
[20:21] <mzanetti> aquarius, alecu perhaps
[20:22] <aquarius> good thought.
[20:22] <aquarius> alecu, ping! also, long time no see :)
[20:23] <alecu> Hello!
[20:23] <aquarius> heya alecu :)
[20:23] <alecu> Hey there, sil
[20:24] <t1mp> aquarius: I don't know about scope stuff
[20:24] <aquarius> t1mp, no worries -- we have summoned alecu :)
[20:24] <t1mp> ok :)
[20:24] <aquarius> alecu, see the scrollback for our question
[20:25] <t1mp> kalikiana, zsombi: about the Header API https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wUUKtPmRmwbUELC1BUB9l0VOAwS_zAPRSCqMopUxR1c/edit# ,
[20:25] <alecu> Sure, catching up with scrollback now
[20:25] <t1mp> ^I think I can drop the locked property completely. You can simply not set a flickable..
[20:25] <t1mp> I don't see a use case where that doesn't work
[20:26] <t1mp> anyway what 'locked' does now is disconnecting the flickable
[20:31] <kalikiana> t1mp: say you do have a Flickable but want it to be "locked" at one point, could interactive:false be sufficient?
[20:31] <t1mp> kalikiana: flickable.interactive? then you cannot scroll the flickable any more
[20:31] <kalikiana> hmmm no forget that, that makes no sense
[20:31] <t1mp> kalikiana: header.flickable = null will lock the header
[20:31] <kalikiana> yeah
[20:32] <t1mp> an unlocked header means that it scrolls with the flickable
[20:32] <kalikiana> so what matters is there's a way to stop the header from knowing about it
[20:32] <t1mp> having the unlocked property requires additional code (to disconnect from the flickable) and tests
[20:32] <t1mp> kalikiana: just set header.flickable = null, or header.flickable = yourFlickable to enable scrolling
[20:33] <kalikiana> yeah, or even a simple binding if needed
[20:33] <kalikiana> that is pretty fine
[20:34] <t1mp> cool :)
[20:34] <kalikiana> it will still need tests, though ;-)
[20:35] <t1mp> kalikiana: I write the tests before I add the functionality :)
[20:40] <aquarius> alecu, let us know if the question doesn't make sense :)
[20:40] <rschroll> (I think we scared him off.)
[20:41] <aquarius> I think I still owe him a pint from last time I was in Buenos Aires :)
[20:41] <alecu> lol
[20:42] <alecu> aquarius: I think rschroll is right: there's no way to update an existing result set so far. The only way is to force a refresh, but I don't recall if that's available for every scope
[20:43] <alecu> the click scope does so via a dbus signal to the scopes-shell, that ends up redoing the scope query
[20:45] <alecu> rschroll: aquarius: lines 68 and 69 here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/view/head:/bin/install-helper#L68
[20:46] <aquarius> hm.
[20:46] <aquarius> I bet we can't do that :)
[20:46] <alecu> this warrants a bit of explaining...
[20:47] <alecu> since scopes can be killed at any point, we can't do the download of the app from the click scope. So, we ask download manager to do it. And install-helper is a script that's run when the download is completed
[20:47] <alecu> and it also asks the click scope to refresh.
[20:48] <alecu> both the "installed apps" scope, and the "ubuntu store" scope.
[20:49] <rschroll> Can that be done with arbitrary scopes, or are those two special?
[20:49] <alecu> rschroll: I've read the backlog, but I'm still not understanding your use case
[20:49] <aquarius> how does the scope start the download manager? does the scope do it with code, or does the scope provide URLs for packages which look like magicdownloadmanagerurl://?package=http://click.ubuntu.com/whatever ?
[20:50] <alecu> rschroll: I don't know about that bit. I suspect that there might be some dbus apparmor limitation on that, and install-helper not being affected by that.
[20:50] <alecu> aquarius: with the download manager client library.
[20:50] <rschroll> alecu: aquarius and I are working on a scope that launches webapps in their own containers
[20:51] <rschroll> We have a collection of containers to use and want to launch into an empty (or recently idle) container on activation.
[20:51] <alecu> aquarius: startDownload here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/view/head:/libclickscope/click/download-manager.cpp#L130
[20:51] <alecu> rschroll: nice
[20:51] <rschroll> The list of which are in use can change between query evaluation and result activation
[20:52] <rschroll> So we want to change the uri at activation time to use the correct container
[20:52] <rschroll> I can run code at activation with ActivationBase::activate(), but I haven't been able to alter the uri or trigger another uri to be opened
[20:53] <rschroll> Another alternative to is to force a refresh of the query whenever a container is opened, so the container to be used isn't stale.
[20:53] <rschroll> (Thus the questions about refreshing)
[20:53] <alecu> rschroll: what about not including the container id in the result set, and instead trying to find the available container in whatever is handing the opening?
[20:54] <rschroll> That's another possibility, but it involves opening two apps (perhaps)
[20:54] <rschroll> triggering the right one right away would be faster
[20:54] <aquarius> alecu, the thing which handles the opening *is* the chosen container. If we had another app which handled the opening then you'd see that other app open and then immediately the chosen container would open, which looks horrible and doubles our container startup time ;)
[20:56] <alecu> what's a "container" in this context? a browser-like qml app?
[20:56] <aquarius> yup
[20:56] <aquarius> there are 16 of them pre-defined.
[20:57] <aquarius> we want to choose one of them which is currently empty, or the least recently used one
[20:57] <aquarius> we can work out which one is least recently used when the scope is opened
[20:57] <alecu> aquarius: and they will all be shown in the right-side spread? they are running apps after all
[20:57] <aquarius> yup
[20:57] <aquarius> that's why they are separate pre-defined containers.
[20:58] <aquarius> if we work out which container is least-recently used when the user opens the scope (let's say it's container 6) so all the URLs look like container6://some-bookmarked-webapp.com, then that's fine -- choosing any web app will open it in container 6
[20:59] <aquarius> but if the user then switches *back* to the Dash and chooses *another* webapp, the query will not have been refreshed, so all the URLs will still be container6:// and we don't want them to be, because that container is in use now.,
[21:00] <aquarius> so what we want to do is decide which container is least-recently-used *after* an app is tapped, rather than when we get the list of apps to show.
[21:03] <alecu> aquarius: I'm going to assume this something you guys don't plan to upload to the store as a regular click.
[21:04] <alecu> aquarius: in that case, you may use a special apparmor profile to allow talking dbus and refreshing the query after each container is activated with a new url
[21:07] <rschroll> How would that work?  Does the scope need special code, or would the container be talking to unity8?
[21:07] <aquarius> alecu, absolutely not. This is absolutely intended to be in the regular store, from my perspective at least.
[21:07] <rschroll> We'd need an exception for multiple desktop files, but that's all right now.
[21:08] <aquarius> yup
[21:08] <aquarius> (and I am talking to people about that)
[21:08] <alecu> ah, I see.
[21:08] <aquarius> saying "you can write an app which works like this, but actual normal people can't have it" is avoiding the problem ;-)
[21:08] <alecu> aquarius: there's always the open store... :-)
[21:08] <aquarius> "actual normal people". :)
[21:09] <aquarius> "The scope starts a helper app which then starts the appropriate container" will obviously work, it's just a terrible user experience
[21:09] <rschroll> aquarius: I may have a work around.  It's a little bit complicated, but shouldn't be too bad.
[21:09] <rschroll> The scope would just code a fixed container for all but the recently-used apps.
[21:09] <aquarius> unless it's possible to have a helper app which can be started by URL and which can itself start URLs but which presents no UI, which I bet it isn't :)
[21:10] <rschroll> If a container is started, it just runs.
[21:10] <rschroll> If a container receives a URL, it checks, using the same algorithm as the scope, if it was the right one to receive that URL.
[21:10] <rschroll> If it was, it loads it.
[21:10]  * aquarius asks tedg the no-ui question :P
[21:11] <rschroll> If it wasn't, then we chain to the right one.
[21:11] <rschroll> This means only one app start-up per launch
[21:11] <rschroll> There may be a flicker of the first container if we have to transfer
[21:11] <aquarius> so... basically we have the helper app, we just build it into every container?
[21:12] <rschroll> yeah
[21:12] <aquarius> tedg says that if you have a helper app which itself starts the right container that it will probably start and pass on fast enough that you won't notice it
[21:13] <alecu> stress on *probably*
[21:13] <aquarius> so that'd work, if an app can be url-dispatched but not have a .desktop file...?
[21:13] <tedg> alecu: I'm talking non-QML here :-)
[21:13] <alecu> :-)
[21:14] <alecu> aquarius: remember that you can set some flag on .desktop files so they are hidden from the app scope
[21:14] <aquarius> ah, we need a desktop file so the urldispatcher knows which executable to start
[21:14] <aquarius> and the helper app would have to explicitly quit after it sent out the new URL
[21:14] <aquarius> which is a shame, because if it could stay running then it wouldn't incur any startup cost
[21:14] <aquarius> but if it stays running, it'll appear in the launcher.
[21:15] <aquarius> rschroll, so, we have two options there -- separate helper app, or helper app built into each container
[21:15] <tedg> aquarius: It doesn't have to quit explicitly, it'll just get suspended.
[21:15] <aquarius> tedg, if it doesn't quit, it will appear in the launcher
[21:15] <tedg> aquarius: If it is small enough, it'll run forever.
[21:15] <aquarius> but can't be switched to, because it has no UI
[21:16] <aquarius> thus, a launcher button which doesn't do anything, which is horrid
[21:16] <tedg> If it gets switched to it could go to the scope
[21:16] <tedg> scope://webappsscope
[21:16] <aquarius> yeah, but that's not a solution, that's "well, this bad thing has happened, so how can we make the best of it" :-)
[21:16] <aquarius> but that's possibly a workable idea!
[21:17] <aquarius> rschroll, is that (a) a neat little hack or (b) terrible?
[21:17] <rschroll> Those are not distinct
[21:17]  * aquarius laughs
[21:17] <rschroll> To get good startup time, this would need to be compiled
[21:18] <aquarius> yup
[21:18] <rschroll> Is there a C or C++ API for the URI handler?
[21:18] <tedg> Yeah, liburl-dispatcher is what the QPA uses.
[21:18] <rschroll> thanks
[21:18] <tedg> Oh, and for the running app stuff you can use GApplication
[21:19] <tedg> Might be easier to export that one endpoint on your own though.
[21:19] <tedg> YMMV
[21:19] <aquarius> rschroll, if we were going to do the absolute-icon-path thing then the helper app would be the thing which sets the icons :) But we aren't
[21:19] <alecu> here's how to hide all those 16 .desktop files from the apps scope: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/view/head:/libclickscope/click/interface.cpp#L110
[21:19] <alecu> "NoDisplay: true"
[21:20] <aquarius> alecu, we're setting OnlyShowIn=Old atm; is there a better way?
[21:20] <aquarius> rschroll, huh. Our desktop file has NoDisplay in it, but commented out; did you do that?
[21:20] <alecu> yeah, that works too.
[21:20] <rschroll> alecu: NoDisplay=true breaks the url-dispatcher
[21:20] <rschroll> because obviously
[21:20] <aquarius> :D
[21:20] <alecu> I see you guys are way deep into the hack :-)
[21:21] <alecu> let me know if I can help with anything else, and I'm definitely looking for suggestions on how to improve the scopes api, or the scopes api docs
[21:21] <aquarius> way to improve the scope API: let us overwrite the chosen URL after click. :)
[21:22] <aquarius> cheers for the help, alecu :)
[21:23] <alecu> what I think it's not clear from the docs is that the scopes are stateless, and that these kind of things go against their own nature :-)
[21:23] <aquarius> we're stateless too!
[21:23] <alecu> hmmm
[21:23] <rschroll> yeah, but the device isn't
[21:25] <rschroll> tedg: Are there docs for liburl-dispatcher?
[21:26] <tedg> rschroll: It's only three functions: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/url-dispatcher/trunk.15.10/view/head:/liburl-dispatcher/url-dispatcher.h
[21:26] <rschroll> alecu: Thanks for your time!
[21:27] <alecu> hmmmm.... I wonder if we can have an extra optional step in the scopes api, where each scope would get an extra chance to massage the url
[21:27] <alecu> something similar to what you can do with scope previews
[21:27] <aquarius-phone> Yeah, that'd be dead useful to us here
[21:28] <alecu> rschroll: aquarius: perhaps you guys can open a bug in lp:unity-scopes-api or lp:unity-scopes-shell and I'll take it to michi, pstolowski and the other scope gurues.
[21:28] <alecu> still, it sounds like an ABI break, so I don't think I can promise anything before your hack is ready :-)
[21:28] <AndChat-28784> The helper app should work
[21:29] <aquarius-phone2> Gnah.
[21:29] <aquarius-phone2> rschroll: do you think the independent helper is better than having the container do it?
[21:29] <alecu> ok, I need to run. Great talking to you guys, and aquarius-phone2: it's me that owes you a beer :-)
[21:30] <rschroll> tedg: Gotcha.  I don't see anything for receiving URLs, though.
[21:30] <rschroll> dunno offhand.
[21:30] <aquarius-phone2> Cheers alecu :)
[21:30] <rschroll> The nice thing about the independent dispatcher is that code only has to be in one place, not both in the scope and in the container
[21:31] <aquarius-phone2> Agreed
[21:31] <rschroll> But it means another moving piece
[21:31] <aquarius-phone2> Also we can call the helper "Launching your web app..." :)
[21:31] <tedg> rschroll: No, for receiving we use the FD.o standard. So it's implemented by GApplication, I think QtApplication, etc.
[21:32] <tedg> rschroll: It is only one DBus endpoint if you just want to implement that though.
[21:32] <aquarius-phone2> We can talk to D-Bus?
[21:32] <rschroll> tedg: I see.  Thanks!
[21:34] <aquarius-phone2> I thought we were confined away from D-Bus. Cool.
[21:35] <rschroll> I think DBus access is curtailed by not completely prohibited.  At least based on my reading of the apparmor files
[21:35] <tedg> aquarius: aquarius-phone2: Everything is DBus or Mir
[21:35] <tedg> You should listen to my talk :-)
[21:35] <aquarius-phone2> Ya, but I thought we were only allowed certain things; the URL stuff is on that list?
[21:35] <tedg> Yes. There is in fact a rather long list.
[21:36] <tedg> And anyone who is unconfined can send you anything, so in this case you just set yourself up to recieve the URL
[21:36] <aquarius-phone> Oh, it must be, or nobody could use URL dispatcher
[21:37] <tedg> You'll note that the full API isn't available to confined apps. Only 2 of the 3 functions. The otehr is for the push service and scopes.
[21:37] <tedg> (well dash)
[21:38] <aquarius-phone> Cool.
[21:39] <aquarius-phone> So, something else goes on the "the platform should do this, but we managed to work around the lack with this suboptimal but working approach" :)
[21:40] <aquarius-phone> This IRC app does not handle changing networks well :)
[21:41] <aquarius-phone> This is going to make for the world's best talk about how to get things done on new Ubuntu in the face of fierce opposition ;-)
[21:43] <aquarius-phone> But I think that's the last serious platform impediment we had to overcome. Now, in theory, everything that could work, we know how to do. I think.
[21:43] <rschroll> Until the next existential crisis
[21:46] <aquarius-phone> Well, yeah.
[21:46] <aquarius-phone> But I'm being optimistic :)
[21:50] <aquarius-phone> tedg: question. When I ship an icon in my click package and the Icon desktop file key points to it, does everything reference that file, out does the install process take a copy of it to somewhere else?
[21:52] <tedg> aquarius-phone: Everything references it. For stuff that uses the desktop file in your click package it'll look relative to the click directory. For stuff that uses the desktop file in ~ the desktop file has the path expanded to be the absolute path.
[21:54] <aquarius-phone> rschroll: so, the container desktop file could have Icon=containerN.png and that... is a symlink to ~/.l/s/atd/container0.png ...
[21:57] <aquarius-phone> I'll test that at some point :)
[21:58] <rschroll> Poking around a bit, I've managed to get the scope dispatch a URL from the activate() method.  But it's blocked by apparmor
[22:05] <aquarius-phone> Huh. That's presumably because scopes themselves aren't allowed to despatch URLs? Only the scope framework is?
[22:05] <aquarius-phone> I suspect the security peeps will not wanna relax that requirement
[22:05] <tedg> I belive that you can return a URI as a response to an activate.
[22:05]  * tedg doesn't quite remember the scopes doc there
[22:06] <aquarius-phone> Nope
[22:07] <aquarius-phone> We spoke to alecu who _does_ know the scopes api and he says no :)
[22:10] <rschroll> "# Scopes shouldn't use URL dispatcher directly"
[22:25] <rschroll> aquarius: It works!  If the scope is unconfined.
[22:25] <rschroll> Somehow, I don't think that'll fly
[22:25] <aquarius-phone> Ha!
[22:25] <aquarius-phone> Yes. I think this is not the way forward :)
[22:26] <rschroll> Well, dinner time now....  I'll look at your pull request eventually, I swear.
[22:26] <aquarius-phone> Is OK :)
[22:26] <aquarius-phone> It finds icons properly now
[22:27] <aquarius-phone> And everything works end to end: I added a web app from the browser and launched it from the scope in a container
[22:27] <aquarius-phone> We should talk about nomenclature at some point too; I think we should talk about apps, not bookmarks. But that's not important right now :)
[22:30] <aquarius-phone> Anyway, ttfn. I shall go too. Later!