[00:38] <Tm_T> LjL: thanks for telling me about the topic <3
[01:09] <d4rkmonkey> o_O Ubuntu+1 is here again? cool...
[01:54] <mrj> lol, I didnt even realize it, I had this on autojoin
[01:55] <mrj> Ah, preparing for 8.04
[02:06] <Dr_willis> mrj,  same here. :)
[02:30] <BaD-CrC> so is the repos open for hardy? and is it the same process as it was for feisty->gutsy ?
[02:30] <BaD-CrC> change the gutsy lines to hardy in the /etc/apt/sources.list then aptitude dist-upgrade ?
[02:32] <Dr_willis> given this is like day 1 of hardy channel being open. :) i imagine they are still working on the wallpaper. :)
[02:32] <BaD-CrC> muwhaha. hence why i have 2 systems running debian lenny and debian sid
[02:33] <BaD-CrC> i like to break things and figure out how to fix them
[02:33] <BaD-CrC> i'm not a programmer, but i'm fairly good at figuring things out.
[12:51] <Ximal> hey guys
[12:51] <Ximal> can anyone tell me why i can't play a certain dvd ? with vlc even ?
[12:51] <Ximal> it's XxX : State of the Union
[12:57] <pvandewyngaerde> Ximal:   do you have the dvd read libraries ?
[12:57] <Ximal> i can use other dvd's
[12:57] <Ximal> some of them
[13:01] <Ximal> pvan ?
[13:01] <Tm_T> Ximal: er, in Hardy?
[13:01] <Ximal> nah
[13:02] <Ximal> im in gutsy but noone there is talkative..
[13:02] <Tm_T> why you ask in here then?
[13:02] <Tm_T> hmh
[13:02] <Ximal> i'll go ask there ;)
[13:02] <Ximal> to make sure
[13:05] <pvandewyngaerde> oops, this is ubuntu+1 again
[13:05] <pvandewyngaerde> nice
[13:06] <Tm_T> pvandewyngaerde: what you mean "again" ?
[13:07] <pvandewyngaerde> last few days it forwarded to  the normal ubuntu channel
[13:11] <Tm_T> I see
[14:31] <hydrogen> Now I can sit in here and watch things EXPLODEEEEEEEEEE
[14:31] <hydrogen> maybe a few more 'e's, not sure yet.
[16:26] <Bryan> everytime I put m y computer to sleep, my WIFI drivers go out. Anyone got any solutions ?
[17:11] <knix> Where can I read about th eUbuntu development cycle/process?
[17:17] <knix> deb/ubuntu need to find some kind of harmony
[17:17] <knix> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-0383f47b0f2f8139378e43569435d4dc4fd270e6
[17:17] <knix> That just sounds fucking painful.
[17:18] <knix> I wonder what fbsd/pcbsd do
[17:32] <frandavid100> hiya
[17:32] <frandavid100> could you guys take a quick look at this spec I created and suggest me how to get some developer attention to it? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendSeparateHome
[17:38] <IntuitiveNipple> frandavid100: Very Nice! I always do that anyway, but wished Ubuntu would do it by default
[17:39] <frandavid100> I really think it is a good idea, and worth an intermediate step in the installer
[17:39] <frandavid100> if only I could get the devs to see it
[17:53] <IntuitiveNipple> I'm not sure who you'd target on that
[18:15] <databuddy> eh
[18:22] <ompaul> !installhardy
[18:22] <ubotu> Every time you install hardy, Hobbsee pokes a kitten with the long pointy stick of doom!
[18:23] <ompaul> databuddy, pm?
[19:03] <cblack0> what is the preferred/recommended command-line way to upgrade from gutsy to hardy? apt-get dist-upgrade or do-release-upgrade?
[19:05] <nrp> I dont know what the recommended way is, but updating sources and dist-upgrade worked fine for me
[20:01] <andre> hehe too Early for complaints eh?
[20:19] <billytwowilly> woohoo! the channle is back;)
[20:19] <billytwowilly> I like the "This is pre-alpha almost" statement;)
[20:21] <gnomefreak> andre: way too early seeing as hardy is pretty much still gutsy
[21:15] <BaD-CrC> *pindrop*
[22:40] <hydrogen> zomg
[22:40] <hydrogen> my computer won't start!
[22:41] <hydrogen> I thought hardy was stable!
[22:41] <hydrogen> wtf kind of show are you running!
[22:44] <nickrud> live?
[22:47] <Toma-> hydrogen: Works for Me
[22:59] <jimmygoon> Have any mockups been offered up for Hardy... I can't wait to see the suggested designs... its soo exciting. (the new ubuntu release in the spring is always on my brithday and this is an extra big thing to look forward to)
[23:39] <jimmygoon> no one?
[23:46] <gnomefreak> jimmygoon: they are being worked on this week and next most likely a few weeks will have down what will happen
[23:46] <jimmygoon> gnomefreak, awesome. Is the ubuntu art team paid?
[23:46] <jimmygoon> or rather Are the members of the team paid?
[23:47] <gnomefreak> jimmygoon: maybe 1 person but most are not
[23:47] <gnomefreak> jimmygoon: only canonical emplyees get paid
[23:48] <jimmygoon> are most of those support?
[23:48] <gnomefreak> what do you mean?
[23:50] <gnomefreak> some LP guys and some developers are paid (maybe around 50 developers are paid out of all of us
[23:50] <gnomefreak> ad most of time you wont see them helping in support channels as they are busy with packages and coding and stuff


[12:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #87766 in malone "Synaptics tablet freezes " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87766
[09:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[09:15] <thumper> morning mpt
[09:16] <ajmitch> morning thumper, mpt
[09:16] <thumper> morning ajmitch
[09:16] <thumper> I find that it is always quiet on Monday morning
[09:16] <ajmitch> and a wonderful monday morning it is, when I get into work & a server is dead :)
[09:17] <ajmitch> more correctly, the data centre is dead in auckland
[09:18] <mpt> thumper, that's because 2/3 of the world is Sundaying
[09:18] <thumper> mpt: I know...
[09:18] <thumper> such is the bane of UTC+13
[09:18] <mpt> or the pleasure
[09:18] <ajmitch> at least you get to relax for your weekend earlier
[09:28] <mpt> Oh, products are projects now
[09:28] <mpt> and projects are also projects
[09:29] <ajmitch> interesting decision
[09:29] <ajmitch> was products too confusing?
[09:30] <mpt> No, but projects was
[09:31] <ajmitch> so you decided to keep projects & chuck the other?
[09:31] <mpt> I wrote a spec for fixing the problem in December 2005
[09:31] <mpt> but these decisions take a while ;-)
[09:31] <ajmitch> I can certainly see where the confusion comes in though :)
[09:31] <ajmitch> interesting, I didn't realise my personal branches page would show branches for all the teams I'm in :)
[09:32] <mpt> That's probably a bug
[09:35] <s|g> re
[09:37] <thumper> mpt: no it isn't
[09:37] <thumper> not showing them was a bug
[09:37] <mpt> oh rly?
[09:37] <thumper> the authored, registered, and subscribed branches show only yours
[09:37] <thumper> I'm in the process of making those views look like the branch listings of the normal view
[09:38] <thumper> the branch is up for review
[09:38] <mpt> There's a tickcount branch on the "Matthew Paul Thomas - Bazaar branches" page
[09:38] <s|g> i would like merge my old username but registered e-mail address for old one isnt avaliable yet. anyone can help me ?
[09:38] <mpt> thumper, I don't even know what tickcount is!
[09:38] <thumper> mpt: neither do I but it is a branch owned by the launchpad developers
[09:39] <mpt> It shouldn't be on my page, that's silly.
[09:39] <thumper> mpt: perhaps we should separate it out again, and add another for team banches
[09:39] <thumper> we don't always know how things will be until we try them
[09:39] <mpt> A separate section would be good.
[09:40] <thumper> mpt: feel free to create a bug and assign it to me
[09:47] <mpt> thumper, ah, I see, this is the result of bug 78760
[09:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78760 in launchpad-bazaar "Person branch listings should be team-aware" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78760 - Assigned to Tim Penhey (thumper)
[09:48] <thumper> mpt: yep
[09:50] <mpt> I don't understand why you'd do what was described in that bug, though
[09:50] <mpt> set a team as the registrant for a branch
[09:52] <mpt> oh, for centralized version control you might
[09:52] <mpt> e.g. rocketfuel
[09:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #87878 in launchpad-bazaar "List branches belonging to teams separately from your own" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87878
[10:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #87889 in rosetta "Ubuntu Translators not ordered correctly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87889
[10:40] <s|g> can someone help me in merge my old nick into new ?
[10:51] <Lutin> are there launchpad pepole around who could have a look to support request #3888 ?
[10:54] <jml> Lutin: probably not right now.
[10:54] <Lutin> jml: ok
[10:55] <jml> but as Monday morning rolls its way around the world, there should be more people around, some of whom should be able to help.
[10:57] <Lutin> jml: ok, thanks :)
[11:00] <mpt> go Monday go
[11:03] <Lutin> heh, 1h to go here...last hour on holiday
[11:05] <LaserJock> hmm, it's Sunday afternoon here
[11:06] <Lutin> LaserJock: US ?
[11:06] <LaserJock> yep
[11:07] <LaserJock> Pacific TZ even, it's only 2:00pm
[11:07] <Lutin> hehe, lucky man :)
[11:07] <LaserJock> I guess
[11:07] <LaserJock> except for Fridays :-)
[11:07] <Lutin> :D


[00:37] <hggdh> hello folks. Can someone please block the reporter on bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/517777?
[03:16] <locke> Is it possible for me to link to another ppa, use it's source, and upload only a patch to have it apply the patch and build per usual?
[03:17] <wgrant> locke: No. You have to download and then upload the source package.
[03:18] <wgrant> (although you can exclude the orig.tar.gz if it is also present in the primary archive)
[03:18] <locke> Do I have to debianize it prior to uploading?
[03:19] <locke> (i've never been able to get a ppa working properly. I always do something wrong)
[03:20] <wgrant> locke: A source package is by definition already Debianized.
[03:22] <locke> I mean an upstream source, without debian/
[03:24] <wgrant> locke: Didn't you say that you were getting it from another PPA?
[03:27] <locke> I'd like to link to another ppa if possible
[03:27] <wgrant> For what purpose?
[03:27] <locke> I want to apply a patch to Wine
[03:27] <locke> Scott Richie adds the latest Wine to his ppa every 2 weeks
[03:27] <locke> I'd like to use it and apply a patch to it.
[03:28] <locke> If possible, I'd like to be able to have launchpad apply the patch for me
[03:28] <wgrant> There's no automatic way to do that at the moment.
[03:28] <locke> So I wouldn't have to continually update my local copy, just to apply a little patch.
[03:28] <wgrant> Once we support building automatically from branches in a couple of months, that will be easy. But we're not quite there yet.
[03:28] <locke> Ok
[03:29] <wgrant> You'll be able to create a recipe that tells Launchpad to merge your branch into some other branch and build a package from it, and do so every time either branch changes.
[03:41] <locke> That's exactly what I'd odeally do; just provide launchpad with the patches and let it take care of the rest.
[03:41] <locke> ideally*
[08:06] <vish> hi.. what does "karma has expired" mean when viewing one's karma?
[17:49] <lfaraone> doctormo: hey, are you looking to get ground control into Debian squeeze / Ubuntu lucid+1? (It'd be difficult to get into Lucid before FeatureFreeze on Feb 18)
[17:51] <doctormo> lfaraone: The plan is to really gun for lucid universe
[17:52] <lfaraone> doctormo: mk. if that's the goal, I'll be happy to handle getting it through REVU/debian-NEW.
[17:52] <doctormo> lfaraone: Sounds good, have you spoken to jono?
[17:52] <lfaraone> doctormo: no, not yet.
[17:53] <lfaraone> he seems to be offline at the moment.
[17:54] <doctormo> lfaraone: He's the sponsor AFAIK, so it'd be good to get him in on the conversation
[17:59] <doctormo> lfaraone: You'd like to join the development group for ground control?
[18:03] <lfaraone> doctormo: yeah, right now I'm just reviewing lp:~groundcontrollers/groundcontrol/debianfiles, and I wanted to merge in some fixes. If you'd rather, I can just put up a separate branch...
[18:05] <lfaraone> doctormo: things you'd need to pass REVU or the NEW queue, mostly.
[18:05] <doctormo> lfaraone: wonderful, you'd prefer to commit directly into debianfiles?
[18:05] <lfaraone> doctormo: ideally.
[18:06] <doctormo> lfaraone: Using ground control you could quickly make a branch to edit it and push through a merge request.
[18:06] <doctormo> ;-)
[18:08] <doctormo> lfaraone: I've approved you, your background looks solid enough
[18:08] <lfaraone> doctormo: cool, thanks.
[18:09] <doctormo> lfaraone: Let us know when you have updates so I can pull here.
[18:09] <lfaraone> doctormo: uh, groundcontrol asks for your launchpad password. Is there a technical reason why it can't be done via OAuth? (if not, I'll look into adding that when I have spare time)
[18:10] <doctormo> lfaraone: Also let nhandler know since he's manning the daily builds
[18:10] <lfaraone> doctormo: will do, but you both could subscribe to the branch in launchpad :)
[18:10] <doctormo> lfaraone: Er, security, it is going via OAuth, it's just not trusting a web browser.
[18:11] <nhandler> doctormo: No need to let me know. As I said, unless there is a big reason, I would prefer to just have the daily builds run once a day
[18:11] <doctormo> nhandler: Aight
[18:12] <lfaraone> doctormo: hm. even ubuntu-dev-tools spawns a web browser window for OAuth permissions... I think if you can't trust your browser you have bigger problems :)
[18:13] <lfaraone> (you meaning "the user", that is, not the "you" you.)
[18:15] <doctormo> lfaraone: It's actually an interesting problem with OAuth, the developers behind OAuth have backtracked on the ability of it to provide a secure Authentication system, but maintain that it's still a good Authorisation system. And I kind of agree with that possition.
[18:16] <doctormo> Once you've got a package installed, you've already given the packager root access to your machine, if you don't trust the developer or the packager, then you've got bigger problems.
[18:17] <lfaraone> doctormo: it's not so much trusting the devleoper: imagine that there was a bug in your program that caused an attacker to execute arbitrary code as your python process. They could introspect and access the password, even after you've "deleted" it in Python. (this would only be a problem the first run)
[18:18] <doctormo> lfaraone: It would and to fix that the best solution is to provide system wide OAuth framework where bugs like this can be found and fixed centrally.
[18:19] <doctormo> lfaraone: But that doesn't exist yet.
[18:19] <lfaraone> doctormo: that's actually a really good idea.
[18:20] <lfaraone> doctormo: now, I have a more pratical question about groundcontrol. Imagine that I have a workflow where I store my Debian packaging projects not in ~/Projects, but in a subfolder, ~/Projects/ppt/. Is there a way to tell GC to treat 'ppt' like it does 'Projects'?
[18:20] <doctormo> lfaraone: The valid concern that people have brought me is that at the moment GC has a lib to interact with the webpage for OAuth, if that changes drastically then the code will fail and thats bad for a package in universe.
[18:21] <doctormo> lfaraone: Yes, edit your XDG directory config, ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
[18:22] <lfaraone> doctormo: can I set it to use *both* Projects and ppt? or is this nonsense? :)
[18:23] <doctormo> lfaraone: not yet, sounds like a wishlist bug
[18:27] <lfaraone> Filed as bug 518488.
[18:35] <doctormo> lfaraone: Thanks, I can see it being something for a configuration type file, which we don't yet have.
[19:03] <dan4dm> hi - when I try to dput to my ppa I get "Connection failed, aborting. Check your network [Errno -2] Name or service not known" - any tips pls? (eg how to test i can ftp normally?)
[19:32] <jpds> dan4dm: By running: ftp ppa.launchpad.net
[19:38] <dan4dm> jpds: thanks. that logs in successfully - yet dput still fails. (details at http://www.pastebin.ca/1789332 )
[19:39] <jpds> dan4dm: Change upload.launchpad to ppa.launchpad in /etc/dput.cf
[19:39] <jpds> Err, or your ~/.dput.cf
[19:40] <dan4dm> my .dput.cf seems jpds: that does it! thanks - must have copied that from an outdated webpage
[19:40] <jpds> No problem.
[19:57] <doctormo> lfaraone: When you installed from the ppa, did it ask you to restart nautilus?
[19:58] <lfaraone> doctormo: I don't remember, sorry.
[19:58] <lfaraone> doctormo: and I don't have that terminal open still.
[19:59] <doctormo> lfaraone: You would remember, it pops up with a notifier similar to the "showdown required" one
[19:59] <lfaraone> doctormo: okay, didn't see it then. :)
[20:00] <doctormo> lfaraone: Something to look into I think
[20:00] <lfaraone> doctormo: yep. I'll add it to my TODO :)
[20:01] <doctormo> lfaraone: Ah you want to take it, cool, well all the code is there and it _should_ work.
[20:01] <lfaraone> doctormo: oh, I'm happy to let someone else handle it, I just thought you were *asking* me to take it.
[20:02] <doctormo> lfaraone: I am now, my todo is quite long :-D
[20:06] <lfaraone> doctormo: okay, I'll reopen bug 513652, assign to me, and investigate.
[20:07] <doctormo> lfaraone: Although that bug's been fixed, I think what I'll do is make you a new one
[20:07] <paki> hi at all
[20:07] <paki> i have a very stupid problem
[20:07]  * lfaraone undos his changes.
[20:07] <lfaraone> paki: what is it?
[20:07] <paki> launchpad reject my code
[20:07] <paki> in email:no @ found in email address part.
[20:07] <lfaraone> paki: what exact error message are you getting?
[20:08] <paki> what??
[20:08] <lfaraone> paki: where are you submitting your code, to what, and can you give us a link to the full error message text in a pastebin?
[20:08] <lfaraone> !pastebin | paki
[20:09] <lfaraone> doctormo: okay, whichever.
[20:09] <doctormo> lfaraone: bug 518529 for you
[20:10] <paki> http://paste.ubuntu.com/371169/
[20:10] <paki> this!
[20:10] <paki> excuse my english..
[20:10] <lfaraone> paki: okay. in your debian/control file, you need to change the "Maintainer:" field to "Pasquale Ambrosini<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:11] <lfaraone> paki: according to your paste it was set to "Maintainer: Pasquale Ambrosini (pakizip)"
[20:11] <paki> thanks
[20:11] <paki> another thing
[20:11] <paki> in cput.cf
[20:11] <paki> *dput.cf
[20:12] <paki> incoming = ~pasquale-ambrosini/ppa/ubuntu
[20:12] <paki> is exact?
[20:12] <lfaraone> paki: yes, that is correct.
[20:12] <paki> well!
[20:12] <paki> thnks man!
[20:13] <lfaraone> paki: any time.


[16:41] <Kilos> hi Na3iL
[16:42] <Na3iL> o/ Kilos
[16:42] <Kilos> elacheche you here?
[16:42] <Kilos> the LC is making me tired
[16:42] <Kilos> cant wait a week for a mail reply
[16:42] <CraigZ> whats the LC?
[16:42] <Kilos> loco council
[16:43] <CraigZ> Oh OK
[16:43] <Kilos> the group the is supposed to manage locos
[16:43] <Kilos> s/the/that
[16:43] <CraigZ> :)
[16:44] <Kilos> i like things to happen
[16:44] <CraigZ> Some thing plod along slowly
[16:45] <Kilos> yeah
[17:13] <Kilos> Na3iL kick cheche
[17:13] <Kilos> and his brother
[17:13] <Kilos> bedis never comes here anymore
[17:14] <Kilos> and anis is too forgetful
[18:02] <elacheche> Hey Kilos how can I help
[18:06] <Kilos> haha elacheche you woke up
[18:07] <Kilos> please ask luna to vote + in that rt mail
[18:14] <elacheche> To be honest Kilos, I am not sure that she even know what is rt.. But I'll tell here any way.. I'm giving up on here comming back to activity soon.. :(
[18:14] <Kilos> ill mail the relevant mail to you now elacheche
[18:14] <Kilos> ty
[18:15] <elacheche> I'll forward it to her.. Or you can send it directly to her
[18:15] <Kilos> ok elacheche i sent it to you
[18:15] <Kilos> i dont have her addy sir
[18:16] <Kilos> dont the LC peeps have any contact with each other?
[18:16] <elacheche> I'm forwarding it
[18:16] <Kilos> ty
[18:17] <elacheche> Kilos: I have no idea how the LC members work, I'm trying to not put my nose in others stuff (and I am trying hard x) :D )
[18:18] <Kilos> lol
[18:18] <elacheche> :D
[18:18] <Kilos> just ask her please i ask can she do it asap
[18:19] <Kilos> i cant spend so much time on only 2 locos
[18:19] <elacheche> I'll do it.. She's not around right now
[18:20] <Kilos> it will take 3 lifetimes to get around the world at this rate
[18:20] <Kilos> ty
[18:20] <Kilos> ill ping you mor ning again


[06:20] <qwebirc99964> So..
[06:20] <qwebirc99964> what is the most stable version of mythbuntu?
[07:10] <qwebirc8083> My iso fails on boot; "kernel panic: processor microcode etc." does anyone know a soln.? thank you.
[09:19] <qwebirc13624> !help
[09:20] <qwebirc13624> I fixed many of the problems with the mythtv install but, I can't stop the frotend program from crashing. What should I do?
[09:21] <qwebirc13624> Also I was wondering what option I should select to pick  up antenna tv via the tuner card
[09:21] <qwebirc13624> frontend*
[17:27] <qwebirc13624> anyone here?


[12:09] <guiverc_t> uwn:  haven't added from planet, v.zimmerman's "-ogle code in draws to close"; if should be in please add.
[12:11] <guiverc_t> uwn: another on -ogle-code in by j.riddell skipped
[12:15] <guiverc_t> uwn:  s.graber LXD on debian skipped.  (ok added but deleted when brain registered i'd typed debian; and not in error)
[12:18] <guiverc_t> uwn:  planet added (as of now)
[17:30] <pleia2> thanks guiverc_t
[17:30] <pleia2> I am about to leave for 24 hours of travel home
[17:31] <pleia2> I'll try to get the newsletter ready for summary writers during one of my layovers, but no promises :\
[23:16] <pleia2> huh, not much audio and video happening lately
[23:16] <pleia2> no ubuntu on airs, no podcasts
[23:18] <pleia2> otherwise, newsletter is shaping up, going to send to summary writers now before next airplane
[23:20] <pleia2> I also need to prepare a fridge post about our issue 500 question contest
[23:20] <guiverc_t> :)
[23:21] <guiverc_t> have a safe & good flight pleia2
[23:21] <pleia2> thanks :)


[14:47] <adom> looks like i disconnected/reconnected a bunch...wondering if something's up with Blinkenshell...
[14:47] <adom> meh
[14:47] <adom> busy
[15:03] <ChinnoDog> You get what you pay for?
[17:23] <adom> hush you
[18:30] <marcoceppi> hah


[07:44] <nixternal> But unfortunately, nothing in the Freespire package will entice me to abandon Ubuntu Linux--nor do I find anything in Freespire that will make it rise above Fedora or openSUSE in the scrum of free Linuxes.
[07:45] <nixternal> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127258-c,lindowslinspire/article.html
[07:45] <nixternal> ^^ funny how they are reviewing Linspire, but Ubuntu sure makes its way in and takes over ;)
[07:49] <robitaille> streamtuner?  Never heard of it before.   Interesting how for some people an app you cannot live without is a totally unknown for others
[07:52] <nixternal> i like how he talks about CNR
[07:52] <nixternal> oh a "minor" cost to get DVD working...$50 my foot!
[07:52] <nixternal> haha


[04:27] <smartboyhw> Hi!
[09:46] <smartboyhw> hi!
[11:00] <smartboyhw> Hi!
[11:06] <knome> yes, we can hear you
[11:07] <smartboyhw> knome: How's the Ubuntu Studio website!
[11:07] <smartboyhw> ?
[11:27] <knome> uhm, it's fine.
[11:28] <smartboyhw> Good!@
[12:04] <smartboyhw> Hi falktx
[12:04] <stochastic> lol I'm glad it's fine knome
[12:04]  * smartboyhw waves at stochastic
[12:05] <falktx> :S
[12:05] <stochastic> hey smartboyhw
[12:05] <smartboyhw> Hi
[12:06] <smartboyhw> Busy testing daily build of 12.04.1, helping someone in #ubuntu-testing
[12:06] <stochastic> oh you know we never did set the next meeting time at the end of the meeting, though there wasn't enough people to really make it matter
[12:06] <stochastic> anyways I'm off to bed
[12:06] <smartboyhw> What?
[12:07] <smartboyhw> I think we'll have one before Beta 1
[12:07] <stochastic> ok
[12:08] <smartboyhw> Actually, anyone know what's -dt and -nb mean for Len?
[12:10] <stochastic> netbook and downtown?
[12:10] <smartboyhw> ...
[12:11] <smartboyhw> We'll ask him later, then
[12:11] <stochastic> *desktop
[12:11] <smartboyhw> notebook and desktop, that works
[12:11] <smartboyhw> Thanks, stochastic
[13:29]  * smartboyhw waves at falktx again
[13:37]  * smartboyhw waves at scott-work
[13:37] <scott-work> hi smartboyhw
[13:46] <smartboyhw> scott-work: Really, how are you going to plan the YouTube channel?
[13:50] <ailo> smartboyhw: Did you start working on documentation yet?
[13:51] <smartboyhw> ailo: What docu do you want me to write first?
[13:51] <smartboyhw> I don't even know what to write
[13:51] <ailo> smartboyhw: I can't do the work for you, cause then I would be doing it instead of you.
[13:52] <smartboyhw> I know, give me a suggestion on what to write.
[13:52] <smartboyhw> I will write it out
[13:52] <ailo> But, the guideline is, it should be a simple documentation for users on how to use Ubuntu Studio
[13:52] <scott-work> smartboyhw: do you use ubuntu studio to create any content?
[13:52] <smartboyhw> Maybe video
[13:52] <scott-work> "maybe"?
[13:52] <smartboyhw> Yep, I only use it on video
[13:52] <smartboyhw> Also publishing
[13:52] <scott-work> i don't mean what could you do in the future, I am asking what do you currently use ubuntu studio to do
[13:53] <smartboyhw> Publishing and video
[13:53] <scott-work> then write about those topics because you have practical knowledge
[13:53] <smartboyhw> OK
[13:53] <ailo> smartboyhw: Yea. Just start something. A couple of pages, and show it to use. We'll give you input
[13:53] <ailo> Show it to us*
[13:53] <scott-work> exactly
[13:54] <scott-work> just document your work flow for doing a particular task
[13:54] <smartboyhw> Guys, it takes 1 day for doing this
[13:54] <ailo> It doesn't need to be finished today
[13:54] <smartboyhw> So you need to wait
[13:54] <scott-work> that's fine, not much we do is immediate gratification :P
[13:55] <ailo> smartboyhw: We have patience
[13:55] <smartboyhw> I think I will write about publishing first
[13:55] <ailo> Sounds great
[13:57] <smartboyhw> I think I will finish the draft in 1 - 2 days
[13:57] <ailo> np. It will probably take many weeks to finalize the documentation
[13:57] <ailo> We still need to work on the other areas as well
[13:57] <smartboyhw> Yep
[13:58] <smartboyhw> ailo: What sorts of areas?
[13:58] <ailo> I'll do audio, but not until much later
[13:58] <ailo> We'll need something for each workflow category. But, we might also need something on just basic desktop usage
[13:59] <ailo> Short and concise
[14:11] <smartboyhw> Writing the publishing documentation
[14:12] <ailo> len-dt: I'm just about to build some kernels. configs of interest?
[14:13] <ailo> I'll at least build one with tickless timer
[14:14] <ailo> And I'm omitting the threadirqs patch, so we can do that manually between boots
[14:15] <ailo> I'll have the tests ready sometime this week. Still need to go through each one and decide which are tweakable during runtime
[14:15] <smartboyhw> ailo: If I have written the documentation can I join the documentation team in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure
[14:16] <ailo> smartboyhw: Sure. The teamstructure is more as a place for people to know who is doing what, in case someone wants to ask questions
[14:17] <smartboyhw> Oh
[14:18] <len-dt> smartboyhw, you can work on anything without being on a "team". Just attach a file and email it. or make a personal branch and point us at it.
[14:19] <smartboyhw> OK, I will sent you all the draft 2 days later
[14:19] <ailo> Anytime you are ready. No hurry
[14:23] <ailo> len-dt: I'll also build some rt kernels. There's no patch for the 3.5 however. Seems like they don't do patches for the odd numbers
[14:24] <ailo> Would be good to get a picture of how big a difference there is between -lowlatency and -rt
[14:24] <len-dt> ailo, sounds like fun.
[14:24] <len-dt> ailo, I think some people use -rt just because.
[14:24] <ailo> len-dt: I agree
[14:26] <len-dt> I think some people feel we use -lowlatency just because too.
[14:28] <ailo> I think most people don't realize why we have it in the first place. 1. they don't know it's actually very good perfomance wise (probably just as good as -rt) 2. It's foolproof easy to mantain
[14:28] <ailo> I have an -rt on this Debian platform.
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Yeah, I got someone complaining about the -lowlatency kernel in #ubuntustudio
[14:28] <ailo> they have an -rt in the main wheezy repo
[14:29] <ailo> smartboyhw: What kind of complaint?
[14:29] <len-dt> I think having a clean system is more important than people realize.
[14:29] <smartboyhw> Asking why we use low-latency
[14:29] <smartboyhw> BTW, I got someone to use Ubuntu Studio today.
[14:30] <ailo> smartboyhw: I would not label asking why we use lowlatency a complaing
[14:30] <ailo> complaint*
[14:30] <ailo> Anyway, I gotta go. bb in a few hours
[14:30] <len-dt> bye
[14:31] <smartboyhw> bye
[14:47] <smartboyhw> len-dt: Still here?
[15:12] <smartboyhw> o/ if you are here.
[15:12] <holstein> ?
[15:13] <smartboyhw> Oh hi holstein
[15:13] <smartboyhw> How are you today?
[15:13] <holstein> not bad... tired... sore... feeling good
[15:13] <holstein> and you?
[15:13] <scott-work> hi holstein :)
[15:13] <smartboyhw> Fine, just finished writing 1/2 of the Ubuntu Studio publishing documentation that he asked me to write.
[15:14] <holstein> scott-work: \o/
[15:14] <smartboyhw> Hi scott-work
[15:14] <scott-work> smartboyhw: what type of publishing will your documentation explain?
[15:15] <smartboyhw> Document, probably newsletters
[15:15] <smartboyhw> I will focus on professional publication making
[15:18] <scott-work> smartboyhw: do you actually make newsletters or professional publications?
[15:18] <smartboyhw> Newsletters
[15:18] <scott-work> good! i very much look forward to getting good information on making newsletters
[15:19] <smartboyhw> yay!
[15:19] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i ask because i desire to have the "right" applications included for a particular task
[15:19] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:19] <scott-work> and by "right" i mean applications that people actually use to make real things that other people really want
[15:20] <smartboyhw> !?
[15:20] <scott-work> let's put this in the perspective of a professional:
[15:21] <scott-work> i know some people who use FOSS software to make a real magazine
[15:21] <scott-work> i value their input because they are using the same tools that i want to use and that are available
[15:21] <scott-work> i also value their input because they are doing this professional, meaning they have a product of value and people desire this product
[15:22] <smartboyhw> scott-work: Do you work at a marketing department?:)
[15:22] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i do not, i am an engineering supervisor
[15:22] <smartboyhw> scott-work: From the above sentences I think you are better to be in marketing:)
[15:23] <scott-work> however, i feel that one of my strengths is breaking things down into easily understandable concepts and organizing
[15:25] <scott-work> so, i value the professionals input, probably more than someone who doesn't have any work experience or portfolio and knows "exactly how to do this"
[15:25] <scott-work> i also value the professional more than just someone who can figure it out and get something done, even if that "something" is a good product
[15:26] <holstein> fact is, we likey wont attract pros til the "proffesional" tools are written for our platform
[15:26] <holstein> the industry standards
[15:26] <smartboyhw> ...
[15:26] <holstein> there are folks who are certain protools is literally the only way to make a recording
[15:26] <smartboyhw> What do you mean by "industry standards"? It's hard to define
[15:26] <holstein> i think the graphics/video folk are more particular even
[15:27] <holstein> smartboyhw: nah... protools is the industry standard... adobe lightroom...
[15:27] <scott-work> i say that because the professional probably has experienced problems and discovered solutions for them, so they have experience to guide a better work flow most likely
[15:27] <holstein> microsoft office
[15:27] <holstein> this is fact...
[15:27] <smartboyhw> holstein: You can't port M$ office to Ubuntu
[15:27] <smartboyhw> Only LibreOffice
[15:27] <scott-work> holstein: i wonder if some perceptions are changing however
[15:27] <scott-work> i agree that there are going to be isolated areas that will not change
[15:28] <holstein> smartboyhw: im not suggesting we do.. however, microsoft *can* 'port' it to linux if they want
[15:28] <smartboyhw> You mean that I should stop writing things for publishing and instead go for photography and video?
[15:28] <holstein> scott-work: seems like android might be helping? not sure.. but it does seem that way to me
[15:28] <holstein> smartboyhw: im just talking outloud my friend
[15:28] <scott-work> smartboyhw: not at all, i value all input
[15:28] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:29] <holstein> trying to help determine a target audience
[15:29] <scott-work> smartboyhw: and i apologize if i unintentionally slighted you, i was directing any of those comments directly at you, i do not really know your experience
[15:29] <scott-work> errr
[15:29] <scott-work> "i was NOT directing any...."
[15:29] <smartboyhw> Yeah, it's time we attract more professional users to use Ubuntu Studio!
[15:29] <scott-work> sorry :)
[15:29] <holstein> i know, i personally try and teach and show folks in more of a general computer science mind frame... how to get from point a to point b, rather than "heres how to use ardour"
[15:29] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:30] <scott-work> holstein: i mention a change in perspective because of people buying apps from "app store" and even google online tools
[15:30] <scott-work> it shows that you _don't_ need the conventional tools to do things
[15:30] <holstein> scott-work: i like how online tools are easily cross platform
[15:30] <scott-work> just a shift in perspective, but it could build momentum
[15:30] <holstein> easy to access... already backed up... syncronized
[15:30] <holstein> lots of positives assuming the security is acceptable
[15:30] <scott-work> has lots of advantages
[15:31] <scott-work> i think personally this is how the entire world will move eventually
[15:31] <scott-work> we will be holding "dumb terminals" and all processing done in the cloud, as well as storage
[15:31] <holstein> i cant say i mind... thats what i try to get users to do, just out of the ease of it
[15:31] <smartboyhw> scott-work and holstein: You two both sounded like Steve Jobs...
[15:31] <holstein> use Gdocs... gmail... evernote... dropbox
[15:31] <holstein> change OS's whenever you like
[15:32] <holstein> use literally whatever machine anywhere anytime
[15:32] <holstein> its handy
[15:32] <holstein> i think taking these ideas and implementing ones own alternatives, such as owncloud, is the ultimate "right" answer
[15:33] <holstein> not that i even personally care to take the time to maintain an owncloud server ;) ...i cant expect my mom to do that
[15:33] <scott-work> yeah, it will take a generation before most people will be able to accept cloud based computing and storage as "the norm" or even acceptable
[15:34] <smartboyhw> But cloud IS the future
[15:34] <smartboyhw> maybe they're afraid of security
[15:34] <holstein> or, just someone like apple to just do it in the background, and not tell you
[15:35] <holstein> "access your documents from anywhere" with no explanation of the security or services
[15:35] <holstein> not that thats all bad.. i suggest apple to users i think its an appropriate match for
[15:35] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i would say that it (the cloud) is too big of a shift to what they know and are comfortable using
[15:35] <holstein> most folks still have no idea... they buy a machine, it "comes on".. they use it...
[15:36] <scott-work> most older people who use computers are comftable with a desktop computer on which you install microsoft windows
[15:36] <holstein> my girlfriend teaches computer classes at a high school.. professionally.. went to school for that
[15:36] <scott-work> you tell them you can replace windows or the OS and they think you want them to buy a new computer
[15:36] <scott-work> to them windows IS the computer
[15:36] <holstein> she's *never* installed an operating system
[15:36] <scott-work> wow, that's kinda ...disturbing in a way
[15:36] <smartboyhw> ...
[15:36] <smartboyhw> I'm 14, and I know how to install Ubuntu
[15:37] <holstein> we are asking a lot of a user.. to decide the machine is "not working" and to determine its the operating system.. assuming they no what that means
[15:37] <holstein> then, install a different operating system
[15:37] <holstein> *none* of my engineer friends could handle that
[15:37] <holstein> maybe one.. but he still preffers sonar on XP
[15:37] <scott-work> also, i think the success of android in the mainstream market (albeit most likely a tech savvy "mainstream") will benefit linux and ubuntu studio as well
[15:38] <smartboyhw> holstein: They are s****heads
[15:38] <scott-work> gives it legitimacy it didn't have before
[15:38] <scott-work> smartboyhw: please watch the language
[15:38] <holstein> smartboyhw: age doesnt matter.. its a matter of expeience, and folks just dont do that
[15:38] <smartboyhw> ...
[15:38] <scott-work> aye
[15:38] <holstein> you're not supposed to, and with all the iDevices and android phones and tablets... you dont do that
[15:39] <holstein> you buy what you buy
[15:39] <holstein> and thats fine.. its just something i think we need to think about as a community
[15:39] <smartboyhw> Looks like a 14-year-old is even better than an adult that teaches computer classes
[15:39] <holstein> maybe go the preconfigured hardwrae route like system76
[15:39] <holstein> smartboyhw: again, it makes no diffrence your age.. only experience
[15:40] <scott-work> i've got to get real work done
[15:40] <holstein> scott-work: o\
[15:40] <smartboyhw> scott-work: o/
[15:41] <smartboyhw> holstein: I don't have much experience
[15:41] <holstein> smartboyhw: cool.. then imagine what it must be like when you say to someone "try ubuntustudio, heres a live CD"
[15:41] <holstein> or worse yet.. "heres a link to a download page"
[15:42] <smartboyhw> holstein: The worse yet one isn't worse, the first one is more worse
[15:42] <holstein> you have much more experience right now than arguably 90+% of computer users ;)
[15:42] <smartboyhw> I don't have a Live CD
[15:42] <smartboyhw> I just have a 4GB USV!
[15:42] <smartboyhw> *USB
[15:42] <holstein> smartboyhw: again, i think you are getting caught up on the details of my statement
[15:42] <holstein> what im suggesting is empathy for the non-technical norm
[15:43] <holstein> this does not mean they are not "smart" or "technical" even.. in context, i am much less technically proficient than scott-work
[15:43] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:43] <smartboyhw> I'm much less technically proficient than all of you
[15:44] <holstein> but, i think we can all learn a lot by thinking about that user who has no idea what you mean when you say "kernel" or "operating system"
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Kernel is difficult to learn
[15:44] <holstein> the target audience for me is no one now
[15:44] <holstein> i dont try and convert anyone anymore
[15:44] <holstein> not by force, thats for sure
[15:44] <smartboyhw> But then operating system is not difficult to learn
[15:44] <holstein> folks come to me, and they say "why do you have no viruses" or "why does your stuff always work"
[15:45] <holstein> thats when i talk about it.. and i say "you dont want to usre this.. its challenging, and totally worth it"
[15:45] <smartboyhw> holstein: Really, that's great
[15:45] <holstein> but i suggest trying other options.. other alternatives... other os's.. i want folks to get whats best for them
[15:45] <smartboyhw> I agree
[15:45] <holstein> is linux the best choice?.. thats a matter of opinion, and my opinion is, i can do whatever i need in linux, and you can to
[15:46] <smartboyhw> holstein: Did you try yo build the new 3.6 kernel?
[15:46] <holstein> but, that doesnt mean that this ficitious person cares about that.. they might just want to "hit the button" and get some work done with some software they are comfortable with that they understand
[15:47] <holstein> took me quite a while to switch from cubas on XP to ardour on linux... and i wouldnt have it any other way
[15:47] <holstein> but, someone with a buisness... they might prefer protools on osx.. they are making the $$ to afford the tools, and i cant say 'ardour is *so* much better"
[15:48] <holstein> i can only say "i prefer JACK, and like the routing, and the open-ness of the community"
[15:48] <holstein> and share my work, and let it stand.. and if they want to talk shop, we can...
[15:48] <smartboyhw> holstein: You sort of ignored my question
[15:48] <smartboyhw> 16 lines above
[15:48] <holstein> smartboyhw: i wouldnt say "sort of"
[15:48] <holstein> smartboyhw: i was talking... and you asked a question
[15:49] <smartboyhw> holstein: Please finish your long speech...:)
[15:49] <holstein> smartboyhw: while i was typing a response, you state i ignored you
[15:49] <smartboyhw> Sorry
[15:49] <smartboyhw> Not sure if you are going to respond after such long lines of typing
[15:49] <holstein> smartboyhw: this is what i meant the other day when i suggested waitng a few minutes
[15:49] <smartboyhw> OH!
[15:50] <holstein> smartboyhw: i would say, for you, you can wait a good 10 minutes before firing off anyting like that
[15:50] <len-dt> holstein, I was thinking about the session manager and realizing in win/OSx they don't need it because most DAWs include everything in one program and the program is the session. I am guessing that is the direction ardour is headed.
[15:50] <smartboyhw> Sorry
[15:50]  * smartboyhw waves at len-dt
[15:50] <holstein> i am capable of missing a question, no doubt.. but you should know and trust this community enough by now to know you are not going to be purposefully ignored smartboyhw
[15:51] <len-dt> just reading the back scroll got me thinking.
[15:51] <smartboyhw> holstein: I've been purposefully ignored somehow in the past few days
[15:51] <holstein> smartboyhw: no worries.. im just explaining what can come off as "abrasive" from your "netiquette"
[15:52] <smartboyhw> Don't worry, I got a mentor to teach me "netiquette"
[15:52] <holstein> smartboyhw: everyone everwhere are volunteers
[15:53] <holstein> folks get busy... i joined #ubuntustudio, asked a questions.. i think a week later stochastic answered me when he was around
[15:53] <smartboyhw> Wow!
[15:53] <smartboyhw> A week!
[15:54] <holstein> ive been hanging there ever since, trying to at least greet everyone, and make sure they get redirected, or know that we are not dead, just busy and small
[15:54] <holstein> smartboyhw: ive waited much longer than that
[15:54] <holstein> smartboyhw: a day is typically what i suggest on the irc.. that way all the timezones have had a chance to go around
[15:55] <astraljava> When things get very specialized, fewer people can answer the questions. You just gotta learn to wait for that someone to drop by.
[15:55] <len-dt> smartboyhw, I often type several lines and get the response the next day. I have learned never to say hi or are you there.Just type what needs saying and wait... or go away for a bit.
[15:55] <holstein> smartboyhw: anyways... i have not built my own kernel yet.. i have not compiled one at all, though i still read about it occasinoally and plan to
[15:55] <holstein> smartboyhw: i "still* havent read len-dt 's post above, but he knows im going to...
[15:56] <holstein> len-dt: im not sure... i know there is a proposed new sound system? klang?
[15:56] <holstein> len-dt: other DAW's dont have the interoperablility we do, so i think its a non-issue
[15:57] <holstein> len-dt: i would love to have a few minutes with las in private to know what he thinks
[15:57] <astraljava> Isn't it still quite infant?
[15:57] <len-dt> holstein, klang is a yet to be.
[15:57] <holstein> astraljava: i think its still a dream
[15:57] <holstein> i dont think theres any code yet, right?
[15:57] <astraljava> Most likely.
[15:58] <len-dt> It wasn't supposed to even be anounced yet as there is no code. Just an idea
[15:58] <smartboyhw> ...
[15:59] <len-dt> holstein, I was thinking of a session manager for other than audio nad as I thought I was going it maybe doesn't make sense.
[15:59] <len-dt> The workflow is different.
[15:59] <holstein> len-dt: quite differnt
[15:59] <smartboyhw> astraljava: Are you in for the QA meeting tmr?
[15:59] <len-dt> When you were talking about the professional use of other OSs I realized they are mostly one app does it all.
[16:00] <holstein> its the first thing i would miss, and keeps me on linux for sure... but the typical protools user has no idea
[16:00] <astraljava> smartboyhw: Don't know yet. We'll see tomorrow. It's about that time when I either get out of work, or am freakishly busy at the office still.
[16:00] <len-dt> So session management is a linux idea.
[16:00] <holstein> len-dt: the idea of JACK running "first" or "in the background" is quite different
[16:00] <smartboyhw> astraljava: Ok, hopefully I will see ya then
[16:01] <len-dt> holstein, I have been looking at nama, not because we should include it but out of personal interest.
[16:02] <len-dt> I am realizing there is a whole other workflow for CLI
[16:03] <len-dt> I have a friend who is a blind computer tech and am realizing how a GUI can be a hindrance and not a help.
[16:03]  * astraljava suddenly gets interested
[16:04]  * smartboyhw gets interested too
[16:04] <len-dt> I am remembering that at lot of our softsynths are CLI apps with gui wrapers.
[16:06] <astraljava> len-dt: Would you think of some scripts or the likes as tools for such a work flow?
[16:07] <len-dt> I think it would be interesting to have a non-X audio server/box that can be used standalone for someone who wants that or can add extra function to a gui machine using using netjack.
[16:07] <len-dt> nama is a set of scripts in perl for  ecasound
[16:07] <astraljava> Fascinating.
[16:08] <len-dt> Anyway, just thinking "out loud".
[16:09] <astraljava> I hear ya. No pun intended.
[16:09] <smartboyhw> "out loud" so that it is logged
[16:09] <smartboyhw> :)
[16:09] <holstein> smartboyhw: think of #ubuntu-meeting as a "common area"
[16:09] <smartboyhw> holstein: Why?
[16:09] <holstein> its a place where one must be aware, and and keep it clear and clean
[16:10] <smartboyhw> Isn't it #ubuntu or #ubuntuforums or #ubuntu-offtopic?
[16:10] <holstein> its important to  check the schedule, and be respectful in there
[16:10] <holstein> thats where the main teams meet and do buisness... sometimes thats the only contact they will have for who knows how long
[16:11] <holstein> its important that they be given the opportunity to be as efficient as possible.. like it was when we had our meeting there
[16:11] <smartboyhw> Don't you think I know, I'm chair sometimes on QA
[16:12] <holstein> smartboyhw: cool... what i see you doint right now in ubuntu-meeting is coming off as "in the way"
[16:13] <holstein> smartboyhw: i feel you are about to be officially reprimanded, and i am giving you a polite heads-up
[16:13] <smartboyhw> "officially reprimanded" what does that mean?
[16:13] <holstein> to which, you can repond with either "no thanks, i know what im doing" or "ok, thanks"
[16:13] <holstein> but, you will not hit be with  "i know"
[16:13] <smartboyhw> Please improve my English vocab:)
[16:14] <holstein> because, you dont know.. otherwise, it would be more clear to me why you are disrupting a meeting, or that you are supposed to be there
[16:14] <smartboyhw> holstein: Did I disrupt a meeting?
[16:14] <holstein> smartboyhw: i dont know? are you part of that meeting?
[16:15] <holstein> smartboyhw: im just trying to give you a heads-up man.. do you thing
[16:15] <smartboyhw> Can't I just idle there/
[16:16] <holstein> smartboyhw: sure.. but you are not idle there.. you are commenting in the meeting that you are not a part of
[16:16] <smartboyhw> But that's related to Ubuntu Server
[16:16] <smartboyhw> I'm contacting to see if I can help in testing
[16:17] <holstein> smartboyhw: sure.. but thats not where or when to do that
[16:17] <holstein> you can literlaly google "ubuntu server team"
[16:17] <smartboyhw> You thoughy
[16:17] <smartboyhw> I did do it
[16:17] <holstein> imagine we were in the middle of our meeting the other day, and someone came in and said "hey guys, i want to help"
[16:18] <holstein> its not the place to do that.. and its fine that you dont konw that... but im telling you, right now
[16:18] <holstein> asking the team during their meeting *is* disruptive, and again, your enthusiasm is noted and appreciated
[16:20] <smartboyhw> holstein: Do you know how old am I?
[16:21] <holstein> im only giving you a 'heads-up'.. some actions like that recieve punishments that i dont think you would appreciate
[16:21] <smartboyhw> holstein: Just guess
[16:21] <holstein> smartboyhw: again, its not your age.. its your experience... and i think you have a mature does of both, and greatly appreciate you being here
[16:21] <holstein> dose*
[16:21] <smartboyhw> I mean, guess it
[16:22] <smartboyhw> Bye now, need to sleep
[16:22] <holstein> smartboyhw: enjoy!
[16:23] <len-dt> holstein, thank you very much!
[16:24] <holstein> len-dt: :D ...i should have probably did that in a PM.. but i wanted to keep it constructive
[16:24] <len-dt> It helps keep people like me calm. I have been quiet rathger than say something I would not want to.
[16:34] <astraljava> holstein: It's alright to keep in here. Other people will see what has been done, and he also learns that polite and constructive discussion can be had publicly as well.
[16:54] <scott-work> holstein: paul on klang -> http://ardour.org/pd_on_klang
[17:01] <scott-work> not surprisingly, paul is direct to the point and knowledgeable
[18:30] <astraljava> Thanks, scott-work! a GOOD READ. :)
[18:30] <astraljava> meh... caps
[18:33] <scott-work> oh good, i wasn't sure if my post went through, webchat dropped irc again :/
[18:34] <scott-work> i thought it was interesting as well
[20:23] <holstein> astraljava: cool... i was thinking something along those lines.. keep it public for transparency if nothing else
[20:23]  * holstein reading about KLANG scott-work
[20:26] <holstein> scott-work: well, that does it for me... im convinced
[20:40] <scott-work> i would be interested if the klang people came back and rationally and articulately addressed paul's comments
[20:41] <holstein> scott-work: we can only hope.. i wish they'd offer to work on JACK instead.. or ubuntustudio!
[20:41] <scott-work> but i imagine (although i could be completely wrong) they will just say paul is wrong and stupid without any evidence and go on doing their stuff
[20:42] <holstein> i would probably want to react like that as well though... at first
[20:42] <scott-work> holstein: i believe that many people who do these types of things (i.e. "i'm going to make a new sound server and screw all that other stuff you're already doing...i'm not helping you...i'm creating the future!!!!") are not philantrhopic people, they aren't doing it to better anything for everyone, they are creating something for themselves
[20:43] <holstein> hopefully they know who he is
[20:43] <scott-work> and by "creating something for themselves" i believe that to be fame and notoriety, not software
[20:43] <scott-work> yeah, i'm a little jaded and i would be really glad to be wrong though
[20:44] <scott-work> jeez, work is crazy these days and going to get worse for a while before it gets better
[20:44] <holstein> scott-work: :/
[20:44] <scott-work> *shrug* it is what it is
[20:50] <ailo> scott-work: The person behind Kland did answer the forum
[20:50] <scott-work> ailo: oh ho, i should read the comments then :)
[20:51] <scott-work> was it a crap answer or an articulate one?
[20:51] <ailo> scott-work: Also, the discussion kept going on a different forum
[20:51] <ailo> scott-work: He's quite serious. But, first of all, he never announced Klang. That was the first mistake in Pauls comments
[20:51] <scott-work> ah, i will have to look for this later one
[20:51] <scott-work> that's exciting news then
[20:52] <len-dt> It is hard to tell unless you are developing audio drivers and really know as much as they do.
[20:53] <ailo> I did some background check on this guy. Someone posted a youtube video about him on LAU list
[20:53] <ailo> He does game engine hacking on his sparetime
[20:53] <ailo> But works as a system admin somewhere in Germany
[20:53] <scott-work> wow, some very serious heavyweights of linux audio posting in the comments so far
[22:37] <knome> stochastic, re: the website code in LP; i need some access to https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website
[22:38] <knome> i'm in the website team, but i might need to be admin; scott needs to do that
[22:38] <knome> LP says that there's no branches in that product, and probably only admins can create those
[22:38] <knome> scott could also create that branch, and then *maybe* i would be able to push to that
[22:39] <knome> there's also *this*: https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website-content
[22:39]  * stochastic looks
[22:39] <knome> i think either of those products are actually redundant. you only need one product
[22:39] <knome> we're doing it like this with xubuntu: https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website-wordpress
[22:39] <knome> we have a branch for plugins, theme and countdown banners there
[22:40] <knome> while that is not quite how branches are usually used, it works for us
[22:40] <knome> (yes, we have xubuntu-website product too, but that's the old website, and we should get rid of that)
[22:46] <stochastic> knome if you can merge your branch with this: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website that would be the best solution for now
[22:47] <knome> but that's the old website branch too
[22:47] <knome> but i suppose i can try that
[22:47] <knome> i'll do that in the next 30mins
[22:48] <stochastic> yes, that's the old website, but if we don't merge the new code into there then we'll have two different branches both claiming to be current
[22:48] <knome> mmh.
[22:48] <knome> but if i merge there, the studio website products are unnecessary too.
[22:49] <knome> bug managing is easier if you have a product
[22:49] <stochastic> yes, there seems to be multiple products that are empty and lacking of purpose
[22:49] <stochastic> we'll need to run any further changes through scott
[22:49] <knome> yeah
[22:49] <stochastic> he has owner status over things from what I see
[22:50] <knome> yup.
[22:57] <knome> stochastic, oops, see #xubuntu-devel
[22:57] <knome> :)
[23:00] <stochastic> yeah, I'm not too worried about the history knome
[23:03] <knome> me neither, just wanted to check with you.
[23:03] <knome> i'll do that push in a minute
[23:06] <knome> looks like i need to upgrade the branch format too :)
[23:06] <knome> don't know how long that takes, but doing
[23:32] <knome> gneh, some "diversed branch" stuff
[23:36] <knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress
[23:36] <knome> that's it!
[23:36] <knome> the last commit is bogus (eg. empty, just a commit message)
[23:36] <knome> i'll leave my branch for now, we have one IS request pending there :)


[11:40] <rsalveti> morning
[11:43] <ogra> yo
[12:24] <rsalveti> janimo: can't the qt bug be also forwarded upstream?
[12:24] <rsalveti> as it seems now that is not a compiler regression
[12:25] <janimo> rsalveti, sure, I can do that
[12:26] <janimo> I am surprised though it happens with gcc4.4 as well, I wouldn't have thought it is a Qt regression - smaller chances for that between 4.7.0 and 4.7.1 than between two toolchains
[12:39] <ogra> janimo, rsalveti, shouldnt we wait until NCommander's full rebild finished to make sure its not any of the linked in bits ?
[12:39] <rsalveti> could be, was just thinking in a way to put more people looking at this
[12:39] <rsalveti> and it won't hurt to send it upstream
[12:39] <persia> Better to give a good report to upstream.
[12:39] <ogra> since janimo did only a partial build and NCommander was supposed to do a full one
[12:40] <persia> And if it's a compiler issue, better to send to the other upstream :)
[12:40] <ogra> well, currently it doesnt look like compiler
[12:41] <ogra> but i'd like a full proof before pushing any upstream
[12:41] <persia> I don't think it's known.  Inlines behave exceedingly oddly with partial builds.
[12:41] <ogra> so imho we should wait until we can prove it by trying out NCommander's complete build
[12:41] <persia> Indeed.
[12:42] <ogra> given he started it last night (i hope) it should be done this evening at some point
[12:42] <janimo> ogra, do you know what NCommander's current build tests for
[12:42] <janimo> ?
[12:42] <ogra> janimo, well, according to the call yesterday he was supposed to build the full source with gcc 4.4
[12:43] <ogra> same thing you did but with the full package
[12:43] <janimo> ok
[12:43] <janimo> althoug he seemed to say it was redundant
[12:43] <ogra> so we can exclude any issues that might be caused by a partial rebuild
[12:43] <janimo> right
[12:43] <ogra> sigh
[12:43] <ogra> did he ?
[12:44] <janimo> he surely had some build going but not sure for what
[12:44] <ogra> hmpf
[12:44] <ogra> k
[12:44] <ogra> lets see when he gets up
[12:44] <ogra> and ask him then
[12:57] <sveinse> I need to write a udev rule for pulse audio. Anyone here knows how or an example of how to write a udev rule for the OMAP soc audio?
[12:58] <ogra> a udev rule ?
[12:58] <ogra> why ?
[12:58] <sveinse> Yeah. Take a look in /lib/udev/rules.d/80-pulseaudio.rules
[12:58] <sveinse> I need such a line for the soc in order to define a pulseaudio profile
[12:59] <ogra> nope
[12:59] <ogra> you need an alsa profile instead
[12:59] <persia> I don't even have that file
[12:59] <sveinse> (this was on maverick)
[13:00] <ogra> i dont have that file on maverick
[13:00] <persia> My maverick has a 90-pulseaudio.rules, but it only has stuff for some fairly exotic USB devices.
[13:00] <ogra> right
[13:00] <persia> Doing it in ALSA is the way to go.
[13:00] <sveinse> do you then know how? Because I don't have audio on my board and the pulseaudio people sais I need to write a PA profile such as the exotic ones in 90-pulseaudio.rules
[13:01] <sveinse> persia, so how do I do that then?
[13:01] <persia> Which board ("FOO" if you can't say)?
[13:02] <sveinse> FOO. It's our own custom board with custom audio devices.
[13:02] <persia> Ah.  That will make this discussion a little trickier :)
[13:02] <sveinse> So I know I'm on my own, but regardless, I need audio to work ;)
[13:02] <persia> Does `aplay -l` give you any output?
[13:03] <sveinse> Yes, no problem. And I'm able to playback with alsa players and alsamixer
[13:03] <persia> Excellent!  That's a good start.
[13:04] <sveinse> I also have pulseaudio if I load the modules manually. It's just the udev autodetection which doesn't. It refuses as it doesn't find a working profile.
[13:04] <sveinse> And thus the udev rule where I can tell PA about its profile (which I need to write regardless)
[13:05] <persia> Something like load-module module-alsa-sink ... (with lots of arguments)?
[13:05] <sveinse> But I'm listening about other methods if you know about it
[13:06] <sveinse> persia: Yes, *lots*. However you lose some capabilities that way (like HW volume control) due to limitations in the manual module load
[13:06] <persia> Indeed.
[13:07] <sveinse> Where can I find a ALSA profile?
[13:07] <ogra> in /usr/share/alsa/init/
[13:08] <persia> That only works if you get useful CARDINFO data though: you should be able to tell if you have acceptable data from the aplay output.
[13:09] <ogra> right, you need a proper driver
[13:13] <sveinse> Well, I wouldn't be surprised if I found bug in the driver. But this is one in our team, so I'll yank his chain if its not working. In all cases I need to actually prove that its the ALSA driver which doesnt work
[13:13] <sveinse> Regardless, aplay reports:
[13:13] <sveinse> card 0: mcbline [mcbline], device 0: AIC23 tlv320aic3105-0 []
[13:13] <sveinse> card 1: mcb1681 [mcb1681], device 0: PCM1681_STREAM PCM1681-0 []
[13:13] <sveinse> So, that's a good starting point
[13:14] <persia> That ought be enough.  Try creating an ALSA profile against those strings, and see if it loads.
[13:15] <sveinse> persia: How do I verify it?
[13:15] <persia> Your sound will work :)
[13:15] <sveinse> hahah lol
[13:17] <sveinse> whooh.. googling for alsa profile docs...
[13:26] <sveinse> hmm. What to put into my ALSA profile?...
[13:29] <persia> Take a look at some of the other files there: you probably want to identify your controls, at the least.
[13:29] <sveinse> Yes, I'm looking at the omap4
[13:30] <sveinse> One thing though. In 00main it sais "CARDINFO{driver}=="OMAP4", INCLUDE="omap4", GOTO="init_end""
[13:30] <sveinse> While it parses two CARDINFO's in omap4
[13:31] <sveinse> Is there a way I can dump these ALSA variables (driver, name)?
[13:31] <sveinse> The aplay -l doesnt tell which is which
[13:33] <ogra> cat /proc/asound/cards
[13:33] <persia> That doesn't tell which is which either
[13:35] <sveinse> Obviously wrong:  Found hardware: "" "" "" "" ""
[13:37] <persia> I would have expected something similar to the aplay -l output: that's a driver issue.
[13:37] <sveinse> Yes. Reading from 00main it sais:
[13:38] <sveinse> ERROR="Found hardware: \"$cardinfo{driver}\" \"$cardinfo{mixername}\" \"$cardinfo{components}\" \"$attr{subsystem_vendor}\" \"$attr{subsystem_device}\"\n"
[13:38] <sveinse> Hence the cardinfo information is missing...
[13:38] <sveinse> Strange as aplay -l does report them
[13:39] <persia> Probably an incompletely filled structure: long names provided, but not short names (as they aren't exposed to the UI)
[13:44] <sveinse> persia, do you know of a omap soc kernel driver which works good?
[13:45]  * persia looks around the kernel tree
[13:46] <sveinse> under sound/soc/omap
[13:47] <persia> If I recall correctly, sdp4430 got a lot of attention a few months ago, and probably represents the best-tested example of what is known to work throughout the stack
[13:47] <sveinse> thanks. If you run aplay -l on your device, how does the "card 0: ..." line look like?
[13:47] <sveinse> My target sais: card 0: mcbline [mcbline], device 0: AIC23 tlv320aic3105-0 []
[13:48] <sveinse> While my host sais: card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 0: STAC92xx Analog [STAC92xx Analog]
[13:48] <sveinse> Note the last [] missing the text
[13:48] <persia> I don't currently have a running target with a recent Ubuntu kernel.
[13:48] <persia> ogra_
[13:48] <persia> ?
[13:49]  * persia should upgrade something this weekend
[13:53] <ogra> well, the panda operates on the stuff bhind the first colon in /proc/asound/cards
[13:54] <persia> ogra, Do you happen to have the string handy?
[13:55] <sveinse> Hmm. /proc/asound/cards:
[13:55] <sveinse>  0 [mcbline        ]:  - mcbline
[13:55] <sveinse>                       mcbline
[13:55] <sveinse> While from host:
[13:55] <sveinse>  0 [Intel          ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
[13:55] <ogra> ogra@panda:~$ cat /proc/asound/cards
[13:55] <ogra>  0 [Panda          ]: OMAP4 - Panda
[13:55] <ogra>                       TI OMAP4 Board
[13:55] <sveinse>                       HDA Intel at 0xf6fdc000 irq 48
[13:55] <persia> It's the bit before the '-' that seems to be the critical bit.
[13:55] <persia> Same emptiness in several views.
[13:55] <ogra> your driver misses proper naming
[13:55] <sveinse> Aah. So the ]: OMAP4 <-- is the important stuff here
[13:55] <persia> ogra, Thanks
[13:58]  * sveinse wish he had a running panda board to compare against. Would be easier to find the missing struct member...
[14:01] <persia> I seem to remember sound on the beagle getting fixed also, but without quite the same level of exhaustive detail of discussion.
[14:01] <persia> You might check that (unless someone says I'm completely wrong)
[14:01] <persia> (this assumes you have a beagle board to compare against)
[14:02] <sveinse> persia: Unforunately not
[14:03] <persia> You might try asking in #alsa-soc: they know heaps about the details of what needs to be present (although they do tend to work at a level of detail that may be confusing)
[14:04] <sveinse> thanks. I could take a look at the omap4 soc driver to find the "OMAP4" string. However the driver doesn't seem to be present in my kernel sources
[14:06] <persia> Grab the Ubuntu sources: the ti-omap4 branch from git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-natty.git
[14:06] <sveinse> Excellent!
[14:40] <sveinse> persia, I have been diffing our driver and the sdp4430.c from natty. I have a theory why it doesnt work: Our kernel people are running 2.6.38, and the members "driver_name" and "long_name" doesn't long exist in the struct snd_soc_card.
[14:40] <sveinse> Which could indicate that userspace alsa needs upgrade for everything to work :(
[14:49] <persia> sveinse, Which userspace alsa are you running?
[14:54] <sveinse> persia, well I'm running off maverick, so its 1.0.23+dfsg-1ubuntu4 for alsa-base
[14:55] <persia> That ought be fine.
[14:55] <persia> natty is 1.0.23+dfsg-2ubuntu1b1, which roughly translates to some packaging changes and a rebuild.
[14:56] <persia> I believe 1.0.24 is coming to natty soon, but I doubt aged userspace is the issue.
[14:56] <sveinse> Yet, the kernel driver has no driver_name and long_name which it seems is the missing fields from /proc/asound/cards
[14:57] <persia> And there is one for sdp4430?
[14:57] <sveinse> Yes
[14:58] <persia> Maybe look at a maverick sdp4430 (2.6.35-903.21 or so)
[14:58] <persia> My understanding is that it works in maverick.
[15:01] <persia> (if it's not in the ubuntu-natty.git tree, check ubuntu-maverick.git)
[15:01] <sveinse> I'm cloning the ubuntu-maverick git as we speak
[15:02] <sveinse> takes a while
[15:02] <persia> I'll wish you luck: I'll be away for the next 30+ hours.
[15:03] <sveinse> persia: Thanks
[16:06] <ericb2> hello
[16:07] <ericb2> I tested the netbook version with my Beagleboard xM rev2 (OMAP3 ) , and after "Uncompressing Linux ... done, booting the kernel"  I got nothing : stalled
[16:07] <ericb2> I used: the image found here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
[16:07] <rsalveti> ericb2: that's normal, by default there are no output at the uart
[16:08] <rsalveti> but you should see something at your dvi output
[16:08] <ericb2> rsalveti: does xdmi work ?
[16:08] <ericb2> rsalveti: I tested, and nothing so far, but maybe I did something wrong
[16:08] <rsalveti> hdmi you mean?
[16:09] <rsalveti> on xm just the connector is hdmi, but it's dvi-d
[16:09] <rsalveti> you should see the resizing and then the installer
[16:09] <ericb2> rsalveti: sorry, you're right  : xdmi
[16:09] <ericb2> rsalveti: I'll retry ..
[16:09] <rsalveti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleEditBootscr if you want to enable the console
[16:10] <rsalveti> check "Notes about the process" at the page you posted the link
[16:10] <rsalveti> there are some useful information about the process there
[16:10] <ericb2> rsalveti: thank you very much
[16:10] <ericb2> rsalveti: I'll read carefully
[16:11] <ericb2> rsalveti: btw, will you attend FOSDEM ?
[16:11] <rsalveti> nops :-(
[16:11] <ericb2> rsalveti: I'll attend on sunday
[16:11] <rsalveti> maybe ogra will
[16:11] <rsalveti> too far for me
[16:11] <ericb2> rsalveti: ok. I'll probably take my beagleboard with me
[16:18] <ericb2> rsalveti: how to know things are ok ? The hdmi does seems to no longer work. Can this be a resolution issue ?  I remember I had 1024x768@60 working or something close
[16:20] <ogra> i wont make it to fosdem
[16:20] <ogra> already on the road the last week of feb ... my GF would kill me if i also went to fosdem
[16:20] <ogra> :)
[16:24] <rsalveti> ericb2: rev 2 should just work
[16:24] <rsalveti> could be
[16:24] <rsalveti> depending on your monitor
[16:24] <rsalveti> as our default resolution is higher than that
[16:24] <rsalveti> try editing your bootsrc
[16:24] <rsalveti> and putting a lower resolution
[16:25] <ericb2> rsalveti: that's what I'm currently doing. If if works I'll tell you
[16:25] <rsalveti> ok
[16:26] <lilstevie> what does "port's parent platform driver is not whitelisted" mean
[16:32] <ericb2> rsalveti: just curious:  it is possible to use (mean simply copy) a working boot.scr ?
[16:32] <ericb2> s/boot.scr/bootsrc/
[16:33] <ogra> sure
[16:33] <ogra> but it will be overwritten by whatever is in /boot/boot.script during installation
[16:34] <ogra> so you should make sure they match
[16:34] <rsalveti> yup, once flash-kernel (on a kernel update) is called /boot/boot.script will overwrite your boot.scr
[16:36] <ogra> bug 517300
[16:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
[17:51] <sveinse> I have no idea how to get this alsa profile thing going, nor can I find anything wrong with the alsa driver
[17:53] <sveinse> ogra, are you sure alsa profile is the way to do pulseaudio configuration? AFAICS its only PA which complains. Everything else done directly against alsa seems to like it should
[17:54] <ogra> PA complains because it doesnt find the right thing to attach to
[17:54] <ogra> fi you use a PA profile you cure the symptom but not the root cause
[17:55] <sveinse> I found this: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_PA
[17:56] <ogra> thats super broken
[17:56] <ogra> and we fixed it properly for the panda
[17:56] <ogra> by fixing the driver and alsa-libs
[17:57] <ogra> in natty audio works out of the box that way
[17:57] <sveinse> ogra, I agree. But when alasctl init doesn't get the correct descriptors and the kernel soc-audio interface has changed, I'm running out of ideas how to fix
[17:57] <ogra> we will add PA profiles for special cases like automatically switching audio out to HDMI for example, but the basics work out of the box without PA tinkering
[17:58] <ogra> and thats how it should be
[17:58] <sveinse> I've checked both natty and maverick omap4 kernels, and both of them has the extra text fields (if that is what's wrong then)
[17:58] <sveinse> But the latest 2.6.38 does have these fields
[17:58] <ogra> right, make soure your driver has that too
[17:58] <sveinse> no, the struct have changed
[17:58] <ogra> then you can reate an alsa init file
[17:59] <ndec> sveinse: hi. sorry to interrupt ;-) what exactly are you trying to do/
[17:59] <ogra> that way will become the default soon with UCM
[17:59] <ogra> ndec, getting a custom omap3 board to properly do sound
[17:59] <ndec> ogra: argh.. .omap3 ;-)
[17:59] <ogra> heh
[17:59] <sveinse> ndec, My custom maverick omap3 board doesn't detect my alsa drivers
[18:00] <ndec> UCM should help OMAP3. someone will just need to write the correct config files
[18:00] <ndec> sveinse: you mean the kernel or Pulse does not detect it?
[18:00] <ogra> the kernel doesnt even name the card
[18:01] <sveinse> ndec, sorry a little too quick here: Yes, pulse doesn't detect it. alsamixer and aplay works
[18:01] <sveinse> cat /proc/asound/cards
[18:01] <sveinse>  0 [mcbline        ]:  - mcbline
[18:02] <sveinse>                       mcbline
[18:02] <sveinse>  1 [mcb1681        ]:  - mcb1681
[18:02] <sveinse>                       mcb1681
[18:02] <sveinse> so the guys at pulseaudio suggest writing a udev rule to point to a profile
[18:03] <sveinse> yet, the nice people here suggest otherwise
[18:04] <ndec> sveinse: which version of ubuntu are you targetting?
[18:04] <sveinse> ndec, currently maverick. But we'll switch to natty when its a little more stable
[18:05] <ndec> sveinse: as ogra said, ALSA UCM is coming into natty, we are planning to get basic UCM integration in pulseaudio as well.
[18:05] <ogra> alpha2 came out yesterday
[18:05] <ogra> its pretty smooth
[18:05] <ndec> sveinse: that is clearly the cleanest solution, but that might take a little while until UCM is available in pulse.
[18:05] <sveinse> is USM something which must be patched into the kernel?
[18:06] <ndec> sveinse: no. it's alsa user space changes only.
[18:06] <ndec> sveinse: it's new alsa API that makes it simpler to manage Use Case (hence the name)
[18:06] <sveinse> It's good to know. However, it doesn't fix my current problems though
[18:06] <ogra> well, i think your ASoC driver needs to at least support detection
[18:07] <ogra> even for UCM
[18:07] <ndec> sveinse: you have config files where you define your cards profile (headset, headphonem hdmi, ...), and you select which profile to use with this new alsa API.
[18:07] <sveinse> Yes, agree. However theres so much I can do when the struct members change...
[18:07] <ndec> sveinse: well you update the config files ;-)
[18:07] <sveinse> I've read the kernel sources and the "driver_name" and "long_name" fields have been removed from the kernel headers
[18:08] <sveinse> ndec, I have started on a alsactl script/profile
[18:09] <sveinse> However alsactl init sais 'Found hardware: "" "" "" "" ""'
[18:09] <ndec> sveinse: ok, that's what we had initially for panda before it got fixed properly by ogra
[18:09] <ogra> that reflects your /proc/asound/cards
[18:10] <ogra> i only fixed the userspace
[18:10] <ogra> well, actually i only included fixes from others in the right places :)
[18:10] <ogra> these fixes still relied on the proper driver namings
[18:11] <sveinse> Yes, and I found this in sound/soc/omap/sdp4430.c
[18:11] <sveinse> static struct snd_soc_card snd_soc_sdp4430 = {
[18:11] <sveinse>          .driver_name = "OMAP4",
[18:11] <sveinse>          .long_name = "TI OMAP4 Board",
[18:12] <sveinse> But member .driver_name and .long_name is not present in struct snd_soc_card as of 2.6.38.  I think that's my problem
[18:12] <ogra> MIGHT BE
[18:12] <ogra> OOPS
[18:12] <ogra> sorry for caps
[18:13] <sveinse> that's ok (I hoped you weren't angry for repeating my questions :)
[18:14] <sveinse> Let me rephrase: you are now aware of any struct/interface changes to recent kernels which would mandate changes in alsa clients?
[18:14] <sveinse> s/now/not/
[18:14] <ogra> no, i havent looked at the kernel in natty yet
[18:15] <ogra> lrg might be able to answer whats needed for UCM in your driver though
[18:15] <sveinse> I have cloned the ubuntu-natty kernel (for ti-omap4 branch)
[18:15] <ogra> he is ASoC upstream (but not always around)
[18:16] <sveinse> ubuntu-natty has the missing members
[18:17] <sveinse> but that's 2.6.35-3
[18:17] <ogra> yeah, dont look at that one ;)
[18:20] <ogra> it is good for maverick ... for natty there will be a new one
[18:20] <sveinse> In my search for a temporary solution: Do you know how a udev rule should be formatted for a soc alsa card?
[18:20] <ogra> nope
[18:20] <ogra> ask the guys that suggested that
[18:21] <ogra> (which i suspect are fedora devs :P )
[18:21] <NCommander> janimo: did you 4.4 build pass?
[18:21] <ogra> NCommander, where is yours at
[18:22]  * sveinse stuck between a hammer and a hard place :P
[18:22] <ogra> his did
[18:22] <ogra> we are looking for your comparison data from the full build
[18:22] <NCommander> ogra: FTBFS, but due to user error during the night.
[18:22] <ogra> gah
[18:22] <NCommander> ogra: yeah
[18:22] <ogra> stop sobbing on your panda while you sleep :P
[18:23] <NCommander> ogra: but it makes those fun blue flashes when I do!
[18:23] <ogra> lol
[18:23] <ogra> well, monday than
[18:23] <GrueMaster> More like drunken debauchery.
[18:23] <ogra> *then
[18:23] <ogra> GrueMaster, stop giving him beer !
[18:23] <ogra> especially the strong self brewed one
[18:23] <GrueMaster> Beer, pfft.  We has Vodka!
[18:24] <NCommander> ogra: GrueBrew is the only flat beer I ever experienced :-(
[18:24] <ogra> NCommander, i have other bad news for you to make your morning even prettier :)
[18:24] <NCommander> ogra: -_-;;;
[18:24] <NCommander> what?
[18:24] <ogra> NCommander, zul asked for help with bug 517300
[18:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
[18:25] <ogra> he handles upstream and the package went back to -server now
[18:25] <NCommander> ogra: oh, thats straightforward (if a bit tedious)
[18:25] <ogra> but he needs help so that the patch applies cleanly to new upstream
[18:25] <ogra> i dont think its super urgent but having it sorted by release would be good
[18:26] <ogra> please talk to zul about it
[18:26] <NCommander> ogra: will do
[18:26] <ogra> thanks :)
[18:26]  * NCommander tries another qt4-x11 test build
[18:26] <ogra> NCommander, so janimo's build with 4.4 exposed the same issues
[18:27] <NCommander> ogra: I thought you said his 4.4 build worked
[18:27] <ogra> thats why we need to have yours to verify its not something thats linked in from other files
[18:27] <NCommander> hrm
[18:27]  * NCommander checks somehitng
[18:27] <ogra> no, i meant it built and showed (from his perspective) that its not 4.4
[18:27] <ogra> or not 4.5
[18:27] <ogra> however you want to put it
[18:28] <NCommander> hrm
[18:28] <ogra> so a full package build to prove that is needed
[18:28] <ogra> then we can hassle upstream QT
[18:28]  * NCommander has a theory ...
[18:28] <NCommander> janimo: can you do a partial rebuild, but drop the kubuntu_22_thumb patch while I do a full rebuild, and try that?
[18:29] <ogra> can we first follow the plan we worked out before we drop other patches ?
[18:29] <ogra> i mean jani is done with his part he can surely move forward there but we need your package too
[18:29] <NCommander> ogra: I am
[18:30] <NCommander> ogra: but I just want to test that theory
[18:30] <ogra> yep, understood
[18:30] <ScottK> It's not going to build without the22_thumb patch I don't think.
[18:30] <NCommander> ogra: since I broke the qt4-x11 build on maverick (gcc-4.4) with that patch
[18:30] <NCommander> it might be causing a false-negative
[18:31] <ogra> NCommander, well,, we first need proof for janis results
[18:31] <ogra> one step at a time
[18:31] <janimo> NCommander, isn't that patch the IT one?
[18:32] <ScottK> It is
[18:32] <janimo> ogra, I still have things to check. This bug bothers me so much I cannot let it rest
[18:33] <ogra> janimo, i didnt say you should let it rest ;)
[18:33] <NCommander> janimo: yeah, since when it was applied it caused explosions on Maverick
[18:33] <ogra> janimo, but we need comparison data
[18:34] <ogra> NCommander, when was it applied ? i run unity-2d just fine on maverick with the QT from -updates
[18:34] <ScottK> That patch content doesn't exist in maverick
[18:34] <ScottK> Maverick didn't need it due to implicit IT.
[18:34] <ogra> how did it cause explosions then ?
[18:35]  * ogra doesnt get it
[18:35] <ScottK> Not sure.
[18:35] <ScottK> IIRC there's a patch of the same name in Maverick, but with different content.
[18:35]  * ScottK checks
[18:35] <NCommander> ogra: I applied it ot a maverick build of qt-4.7.0 and it caused a segfault similar to the one we were seeing
[18:35] <ogra> ah
[18:36] <sveinse> ogra, where can I find a recent omap4 kernel for natty?
[18:36] <ogra> sveinse, nowehere yet
[18:37] <ogra> whats in natty is the most recent we have
[18:37] <GrueMaster> sveinse: In natty, we are currently still on 2.6.35
[18:37] <ogra> there is a linaro build from upstream but that wont work much and afaik doesnt have any sound stuff yet
[18:37] <ogra> the .38 port is in the works but will still take a while
[18:40] <sveinse> go figure
[18:50] <GrueMaster> There is a .38 kernel for omap3 though.
[19:02] <sveinse> GrueMaster: How does a omap3 .38 system look like in respect of /proc/asound/cards
[19:03] <sveinse> Anyone running .38 here?
[19:04] <sveinse> I curious to learn if there indeed are changes to the overall soc alsa system, or if the problems are related to our system only
[19:06] <GrueMaster> sveinse: http://paste.ubuntu.com/562698
[19:07] <sveinse> same thing as I'm seeing. That's somewhat comforting
[19:07] <sveinse> you have pulseaudio running on this system?
[19:07] <ogra> not if you know that audio is currently not working on omap3 in natty ;)
[19:08] <GrueMaster> Yes, although pulse currently can't control the volume.  Had to do that manually in alsamixer.
[19:08] <ogra> it also waits for UCM
[19:08] <GrueMaster> playback is ok.
[19:08] <sveinse> GrueMaster, that's *exactly* my problems as well
[19:09] <ogra> please dont jusdge by the half done audio in omap3 in natty yet
[19:09] <ogra> thats being worked out
[19:09] <ogra> (by lrg)
[19:09] <sveinse> no, but the symptoms are equal
[19:09] <ogra> yes, but that doesnt help you in any way
[19:10] <sveinse> GrueMaster, what happens if you run alsactl init on your system?
[19:10] <ogra> UCM isnt ready yet and the driver needs adjustment
[19:10]  * ogra sighs
[19:10] <GrueMaster> sveinse: If you can get audio to at least work with alsamixer & aplay, pulse playback should work.
[19:10] <GrueMaster> If not, there are sink issues.
[19:10] <sveinse> ogra, true. And I'm considering the pulseaudio profile "fix" (to call it that) as a temporary workaround until UCM arrives
[19:11] <ogra> might be your way to go if you cant fix the driver the same way we did in maverick
[19:11] <sveinse> GrueMaster: Yes, but we need HW volume control. With SW volume control you lose resolution
[19:12] <GrueMaster> sveinse: I understand.  Just saying that sometimes you need to take it one step at a time.  If you have pulse playback, that's half the battle.
[19:13] <sveinse> GrueMaster: Agree, but not my boss. He needs full fledge audio with volume control
[19:13] <sveinse> ogra, because we're on .38, it isn't that easy as the required driver fields are removed. Which GrueMater now confirms
[19:13] <ogra> if you want to use natty, wait for UCM and possible additional fixes to ASoC, if you want to use maverick either fix the driver like we did for omap4 or go with your workaround
[19:14] <ogra> i would expect these fields to return in some way or the other
[19:14] <sveinse> release is still a year away, so we will have the opportunity to jump to natty and UCM
[19:14] <ogra> or UCM to handle it without name
[19:15] <GrueMaster> sveinse: You could get a jump on UCM by pulling the 1.0.24 tarballs from alsa-project.org.  Or waiting for them to show up here in a week or so.
[19:15] <sveinse> ogra, I do too. It wouldn't surprise me to see that the alsa user tools need change for .38
[19:16] <ogra> they did already
[19:16] <ogra> they are just not in the archive yet
[19:16] <sveinse> in a week or so... for natty then?
[19:16] <GrueMaster> That's the plan as I understand it.
[19:16] <GrueMaster> We had a soft freeze for Alpha 2 release.
[19:17] <GrueMaster> And alsa 1.0.24 was just released late last week.
[19:17] <sveinse> How natty doing? I'm eager to switch, however I can't break everyone's system. That would be expensive
[19:17] <GrueMaster> Alpha 2 is very stable on beagle/xm, and panda.  But we will be switching the UI as soon as we can fix the QT issues.
[19:18]  * ogra is afk now
[19:19] <sveinse> Talking of Qt issues: what are those?  We are running qt on our system (but against qws though) and have had issues. perhaps I can contribute with something?
[19:19] <rsalveti> what kind of issues are you having?
[19:20] <GrueMaster> We are currently seeing a segfault in the core libraries on natty.  Works fine on Maverick.  Problem is the 25 hour build times.
[19:20] <GrueMaster> Hard to narrow down the bug with long build times.
[19:20] <rsalveti> sveinse: I believe yours could be more related with qws
[19:20] <rsalveti> don't know if it's well tested and etc
[19:20] <sveinse> ah, you build natively, right
[19:21] <rsalveti> yup :-)
[19:21] <GrueMaster> sveinse: Here's the bug we are tracking if you are interested.  Bug 705689
[19:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 705689 in qt4-x11 "unity-2d-launcher crashes with segfault error on armel (natty only)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705689
[19:22] <GrueMaster> And I should change the description to "QT Apps crash..." as we can reproduce it with other programs.
[19:22] <sveinse> well, atm qt-qws is working ok (not perfect) for us. We still have opengl integration issues (thank you Imagem)
[19:23] <sveinse> I just *love* the binary driver thingy
[19:26] <sveinse> Some of the guys in our project told me they had problems compiling Qt properly with the ubuntu/linaro gcc, while the CSL works perfectly. It smells similar when reading the 705689 bug
[19:27] <sveinse> sorry for not have more elaborate details, and I don't have any repeatable procedures to back up my claims


[00:09] <slangasek> fyi, disabling system-image importing briefly
[02:04] <imgbot> [04:04] <imgbot> [04:04] <imgbot>


[07:26] <dholbach> good morning
[08:21] <lavii> hello to all
[08:23] <lavii> as i am completely new to the ubuntu development. I am intrested in to fixing the bugs. so please help me form where i will start
[08:31] <rbasak> lavii: you could start by tackling bitesize bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize&orderby=-date_last_updated&start=0) but note that often bugfixes need to go upstream rather than into Ubuntu directly.
[08:35] <lavii> rbasak: Thanks for guiding me sir. Can you tell me wht is the meaning of the "TRIAGED" in the bug importance?
[08:36] <lavii> rbasak: And i also not able to know how i will start digging to fix a bug after getting the code of that particular package??
[08:37] <rbasak> lavii: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20statuses for an explanation of the various bug statuses
[08:38] <rbasak> lavii: unforunately fixing a bug is a very individual thing. How to do it depends on the bug.
[08:57] <lavii> rbasak: means the "TRIAGED" is that bug where any one can start working to fix it????
[08:58] <rbasak> lavii: you can help with driving any bug to resolution that isn't Won't Fix or Fix Released.
[08:59] <rbasak> (or Invalid)
[08:59] <rbasak> (or Fix Committed, or if In Progress then check with the assignee to avoid duplicate work)
[08:59] <rbasak> So it seems a little bit more complicated, but I hope that's not confusing.
[09:03] <lavii> rbasak: What is ()
[09:04] <lavii> rbasak: Sir what do you mean by (or Invalid)
[18:32] <slackner> hiho, someone is aware how to proceed with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1437520 (packaging for wine staging)?
[18:33] <slackner> the bug report was opened about half a year ago, and i even offered help several times. in the meantime staging is an official branch of WineHQ
[18:33] <slackner> btw: if regular wine package maintainers are listening, those packages are terrible broken ... if any help is needed to fix those issues, feel free to ask


[06:40] <Saviq> Moanin'
[07:11] <RAOF> Mornang.
[07:58] <alan_g[m]> G'day!
[08:51] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths opened [issue #2500](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2500): Inconsistent public/private headers
[08:51] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[08:51] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > The public header `include/test/mir/test/doubles/stub_surface.h` refers to the private header `src/include/server/mir/scene/surface.h`
[09:01] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq closed [issue #2474](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2474): wlcs tests flaky in CI
[16:11] <Saviq> Time for me o/
[16:11] <Saviq> Reminder: it's my last full day tomorrow
[16:14] <alan_g[m]> We'll miss you!
[16:48] <grayson-g[m]> Is Frame written with the assumption that it will always be containerized as a snap? Asking because this will determine if I should implement a method that searches for the directory of a font or if I can just hard code a path.
[16:51] <alan_g[m]> grayson-g[m]: In principle, yes. But it can be convenient to build & run it natively. How about using an environment variable that can be set in the snap and provided when debugging?
[16:52]  * grayson-g[m] misses the "ACK" reaction
[17:07] <alan_g[m]> OK, I've reached EOD o/
[17:09] <alan_g[m]> PS sophie, would be good to chat about Flutter's GTK code. Will we overlap tomorrow?
[18:51] <sophie-w> Yeah, same time as the Tuesday sync?
 "Yeah, same time as the Tuesday..." <- WFM