[00:40] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: lubuntu-installer-prompt [riscv64] (kinetic-proposed/universe) [0.2.0-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[00:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: At the suggestion of vorlon on #ubuntu-devel, I've made a modified version of lubuntu-installer-prompt that installs to and works from /usr/libexec rather than /usr/bin. Is this a change you'd be interested in integrating? If so, I'll submit a PR with the changes.
[00:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (I also have some packaging changes that go with.)
[00:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> Dovetailing on that, does vorlon understand the rationale that went into the decision to use calamares instead of collaborating on ubiquity? Because, to me, it does seem to be a worthwhile discussion.
[01:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: I'm not even sure what the rationale is, I just know that it is, so...
[01:00] <arraybolt3[m]> But you went for Calamares, so you probably understand the "why" very well. For me I'd go with Calamares just out of preference since I'm more familiar with it.
[01:01] <arraybolt3[m]> I remember something about feature-richness being a problem, that's it.
[01:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> I understand the why for Ubuntu Studio. The overarching "why" is probably more multifaceted than that.
[01:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> To be honest, Ubiquity is more feature-rich and better integrated in the overall Ubuntu ecosystem.
 I think I remember stuff of like kde version of ubquity pulling in a ton of stuff making a preetty big iso even bigger
[01:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> @lynorian Not really. It's really just a qt frontend, no kde deps at all. The biggest problem I had was that it's hard-coded to Kubuntu and any changes had to go through Foundations, which meant a lot of waiting for weeks for a small change to get through.
[01:04] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer[m]: Well, one of our long-term goals is to fix that
[01:04] <tsimonq2> Calamares is faster and has much cleaner code
[01:04] <tsimonq2> And very well tested heh
[01:05] <Eickmeyer[m]> Simon Quigley: You're not going to get an argument from me, but it seems like we've got a bit of a community rift, which is very problematic from where I sit as you can imagine.
[01:05] <tsimonq2> Respectfully, I... don't care. Technically it's a sound decision
[01:06] <tsimonq2> I don't care if I have to become the damn upstream maintainer myself :P
[01:07] <kc2bez[m]> I don't see how it can be a rift when ubiquity itself is planned to be sunset.
[01:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> Dan Simmons: Because, from a community standpoint, collaboration should be tried first. So, I can see where vorlon's viewpoint is coming from.
[01:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> But, remember, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's a worthwhile discussion to have. I don't want to be argumentative for the sake of argument.
[01:10] <arraybolt3[m]> I remember trying to configure Ubiquity to try to fix a bug, I couldn't even find the config files, I couldn't understand the logs, it was a mess.
[01:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ubiquity is what happens when you add-on to something and then add-on to it and add-on to that. It's a mess. I agree. It's like most of America's airport terminals.
[01:12] <Eickmeyer[m]> It wasn't exactly built to be scalable, yet, here we are.
[01:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Though TBH that's what tons of stuff in Linux is. I mean, that's what APT seems like to me. It's slick to the user and a mind-shattering mess to the developer (at least it was to me :D).
[01:12] <Eickmeyer[m]> There's a reason it's being actively replaced, but in the meantime, it has to be maintained.
[01:14] <Eickmeyer[m]> In my dayjob, I've had to become fairly intimate with it in order to debug it.
[01:14] <arraybolt3[m]> (For the record I like APT and love packaging, but wow was it hard to learn and the docs were a disaster. Thankfully Simon Quigley was willing to basically spoon-feed me through the process until I was able to wrangle it somewhat well.)
 "Dan Simmons: Because, from a..." <- I can see that point. I think the thing I see is that we are 4 years in with Calamares at this point,  switching back to ubiquity seems counter productive.
[01:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> kc2bez[m]: I'm not advocating that at all, and neither is he.
[01:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> I think he's a little "hurt" for lack of a better term?
[01:17] <kc2bez[m]> If we were to try to switch to anything I would think the flutter installer would be the choice. I  don't see that as ready yet and flavor modifications seem to be a little further out.
[01:17] <kc2bez[m]> And that is only if we chose that.
[01:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> No, the flutter installer (code-named Canary, I believe) is far from ready.
[01:17] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: There's the problem. If we don't have general-purpose use (like flavor modifications) as part of the goal from the word "Go", I think we're going to get a mess.
[01:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Calamares was designed to be distro-agnostic from square 1, and so far it's working fantastic. Ubiquity wasn't so much AFAICT.
[01:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I have on good word from Ken VanDine that flavor customization is one of the major goals.
[01:18] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, then that seems like a good thing.
[01:19] <arraybolt3[m]> It would also be nice if we could come up with an installer that was robust. Ubiquity and Calamares both are fragile - mess around too much and the thing crashes or things go wrong.
[01:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Hopefully Flutter will be able to withstand a user who keeps going back and then forward again.
[01:20] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Ubiquity was, and wasn't. It was designed for Ubuntu and Kubuntu, the only two flavors at the time (both equally and commercially supported by Canonical at the time).
[01:21] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Flutter is the language it's being written in. I believe the working name is Canary right now.
[01:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, forgot what the name was.
[01:21] <arraybolt3[m]> And I missed where you said it earlier.
[01:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Also, while we're on the topic, is that change to /usr/libexec a welcome change? I only have a few more minutes for today, so if I'm going to publish it and submit the PR I should probably know now.
[01:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: OK, I submitted the PR, feel free to reject it if that's not what you want to do.
[01:30] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll tackle the packaging change (removing the missing manpage overrides) tomorrow, I'm out of time for now.
[01:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks for everything, and I'll probably see you guys tomorrow night!
[01:30] <arraybolt3[m]> PR link: https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt/pull/2
[18:26] <LeoK[m]> Signing off until AM..


[16:13] <santa_> good afternoon everybody
[16:14] <santa_> RikMills: if you have time today, we could have the talk I wanted to have a few weekends ago
[16:14] <santa_> I had to post-pone that
[19:43] <santa_> RikMills: in case you don't have much time we could simply coordinate some changes that I'm preparing here atm for apps; kmail and kdepim-addons are out of sync in git :|
[21:09] <RikMills> santa_: sorry, I am not very well at the moment. do what you need to do
[21:10] <santa_> RikMills: ack, I will do my stuff and if anything we can sort it out later
[21:11] <santa_> RikMills: if you are ill or something get well soon :)
[21:12] <santa_> btw this friday I got the 3rd round of the vaccine, that "invalidated" me for doing things yesterday
[21:13] <santa_> thank god I'm on mini-vacation till tuesday
[21:47] <valorie> RikMills: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} and get well soon
[23:31] <mparillo> Any reported problems with today's JJ ISO? One one laptop, I got to the plasma desktop, but my touchpad (and trackpoin) and keyboard were completely unresponsive. On the other laptop, which I know ran well with the ISO from a few weeks ago did not even get to the desktop.


[00:00] <poolie> well
[00:00] <poolie> i'm not sure 'common' is the right measure, compared to
[00:00] <spiv> Maybe there's something involving graph logic that already would help bzrlib?
[00:01] <spiv> I mean,
[00:01] <poolie> if there are cases where we need it, how much trouble or friction or
[00:01] <spiv> maybe there's already an operation bzrlib does, or would like to do, that could benefit from this?
[00:02] <lifeless> sory about interruption
[00:02] <lifeless> hardy is not _that_ stable
[00:03] <lifeless> I'm saying that the structure I understand you to be heading towards is hand coded
[00:03] <lifeless> but needs on the wire the exact same degree of encapsulation
[00:04] <lifeless> so why not just define the encapsulation, then let the client and server use them as desired
[00:09] <spiv> Basically, the tradeoff is at the moment the encapsulation encoder/decoder has a pretty simple interface with the objects that use it, and there's a single place that knows things like "this message part is a body".  If we generalise, we push that work to the individual message handlers.
[00:09] <spiv> I guess that's manageable, but I'm also not sure it's work that we'll get much benefit from.
[00:10] <lifeless> well
[00:11] <lifeless> you could make sure the wire protocol is generalised
[00:11] <lifeless> and then only add api complexity as needed
[00:11] <spiv> Hmm.
[00:11] <lifeless> long as the error-handling cases the protocol object knows how to eat the entire entity we're good to extend it later.
[00:11] <lifeless> (extend in the python code I mean)
[00:12] <lifeless> so START, TUPLE|BODY+, END
[00:12] <spiv> Right, similar to the container format...
[00:12] <lifeless> where TUPLE and body are both self delimited
[00:12] <lifeless> and BODY is able to be ended_complete and ended_incomplete
[00:13] <lifeless> lol https://pqm.bazaar-vcs.org/ refuses to show in ff3
[00:14] <spiv> And if a body is ended_incomplete, then it can be followed by another TUPLE?
[00:14] <spiv> (as a convention)
[00:14] <lifeless> right
[00:14] <lifeless> but even if not we'll know it was incomplete
[00:15] <lifeless> and can error regardless
[00:15] <spiv> Well...
[00:15] <spiv> that's the sort of thing that bugs me :)
[00:15] <spiv> More options == more cases == more tests & work :P
[00:16] <lifeless> ok
[00:16] <lifeless> up to you
[00:17] <lifeless> I've exhausted my ideas on this, but it seems pretty clear to me that there are different layers here
[00:17] <spiv> It's not so much that that one part is a big concern, but it's the sort of thing that we're enabling with this plan.
[00:17] <jelmer> lifeless: wtf
[00:17] <jelmer> lifeless: maybe it was just bad timing
[00:18] <jelmer> but going to pqm.bazaar-vcs.org just crashed my kernel :-)
[00:18] <lifeless> jelmer: LOL
[00:18] <poolie> !!
[00:18] <spiv> Wow.
[00:18] <lifeless> jelmer: get a new kernel
[00:18] <poolie> Before You Die, You See...
[00:18] <jelmer> maybe it'll work better if I run a kernel out of bzr instead of out of git...
[00:19] <poolie> lifeless, i think it's a good point about the protocol
[00:53] <poolie> spiv, lifeless, i think we should allow for it in the protocol doc
[00:53] <poolie> the actual encoding iirc would already support this
[00:57] <spiv> brb, fixing a KnitCorrupt in Mary's PhD branch...
[00:58] <mwhudson> ouch
[01:16] <spiv> Newlines in filenames leads to broken inventory.knit...
[01:16] <radix> it seems the dapper packages of bzr on ppa don't work? they're complaining about not having python2.5 when I try to install them
[01:20] <poolie> radix, yes, it's bug 189915, i'm working on it
[01:21] <radix> poolie: cool, thanks
[01:23] <radix> fwiw, the reason it's not working for me is   bzr: Depends: python (> 2.5) but 2.4.2-0ubuntu3 is to be installed or
[01:23] <radix>                 python-celementtree but it is not installable
[01:24] <radix> which doesn't seem to be exactly what bug #189915 is talking about
[01:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189915 in bzr "bzr 1.1 dapper PPA debs FTBFS" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189915
[01:46] <poolie> lifeless, what is the best address for the bzr packaging team?
[01:46] <poolie> ^branch
[01:46] <poolie> http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/bzr/ubuntu/ ?
[01:48] <lifeless> http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/bzr/unstable/
[02:11] <poolie> ok
[02:11] <poolie> the changelog for the pakcage i took from bazaar-vcs.org is somewhat diverged from that
[02:11] <poolie> starting with your "New bazaar-vcs.org build" on 3 dec
[02:22] <lifeless> poolie: yes, merged numerous times; but theres nothing in the bazaar-vcs.org devel-distro-release packags that wasn't sent back to bazaar-vcs.org
[02:22] <lifeless> possibly some dependency differences
[02:23] <lifeless> and the dapper package has the patch from the bzr list
[02:30] <lifeless> abentley: ping
[02:30] <lifeless> abentley: I'm looking for the branch nick on bb, I can't see it
[03:28] <LaserJock> anybody around who has experience using the cvs plugin for bzr?
[03:30] <abentley> lifeless: I think it's not there.
[03:30] <lifeless> LaserJock: do you mean cvsps-import ?
[03:30] <abentley> I assume you want the branch nick from the last-committed revision?
[03:30] <LaserJock> yes I guess that's the one
[03:31] <abentley> We do have the source branch location, if the user provides it.
[03:32] <LaserJock> lifeless: I'm assuming I can use cvsps-import to track a CVS repo
[03:33] <lifeless> abentley: yes, I'd like it to be visible
[03:34] <lifeless> LaserJock: I don't know if it can do incremental or not; it certainly doesn't have the logic to handle all the idiocies people can do to cvs like cscvs does
[03:35] <LaserJock> well, I've been using git-cvsimport and it seems to be working well
[03:35] <LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out the bzr equivalent
[03:38] <lifeless> LaserJock: well cvsps-import is the plugin to examine
[03:39] <lifeless> I've used it for one-shot conversions very successfully
[03:39] <LaserJock> k
[03:45] <LaserJock> I have about 14 different VCS repos in CVS, SVN, bzr and I thought I might give it a go at trying to just use bzr for everything
[03:45] <LaserJock> Riddell keeps saying it's the only way to go :-)
[03:50] <lifeless> LaserJock: riddel is right :)
[03:51] <lifeless> bzr-svn will get your svn stuff beautifully
[03:51] <lifeless> for CVS, just one-shot convert and never look back
[03:51] <LaserJock> well, I don't own the CVS repos so I'll have to keep updating periodically
[03:51] <lifeless> ok
[03:51] <lifeless> have a look at it; or use the launchpad cvs service
[03:52] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:52] <LaserJock> actually one of them is already in launchpad
[04:11] <abentley> I wonder how hard it is to 0wn a CVS repo
[04:12] <lifeless> its ok security wise, if you like crunchy shell
[04:29] <thumper> what's a better merge type to use for criss-cross merges (in bzr 1.1) ?
[04:30] <spiv> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-02/msg01212.html
[04:30] <spiv> thumper: --lca
[04:30] <thumper> spiv: so `bzr remerge --lca`?
[04:31] <spiv> thumper: yeah.
[04:32] <thumper> 7 conflicts -> 2 conflicts \o/
[04:33] <thumper> both of which were entirely valid
[04:33] <thumper> when is --lca becoming the default?
[04:33] <spiv> abentley: ^
[04:36] <poolie> lifeless, how can i avoid dpkg-source complaining about the binaries in the debian/.bzr directory?
[04:36] <lifeless> -x .bzr
[04:36] <poolie> ok, i have to give that every time?
[04:36] <lifeless> or use bzr builddeb to do most of the machiner for you
[04:37] <lifeless>    bzr builddeb --working --builder="pdebuild-$distro --override-config"
[04:37] <lifeless> thats how I built the packages
[04:38] <poolie> so to do that i should have the source in one branch, and the debian/ directory in another branch checked out below it?
[04:40]  * poolie reads the maunal
[04:42] <poolie> lifeless, so it looks like people are using it in "merge mode", since the packaging is alone in a branch?
[04:45] <abentley> thumper: I would give it another release cycle.  See I got this new job, and it's been a lot to learn all at once...
[04:46] <abentley> Unfortunately, there's some work needed before it's a complete replacement for merge3.  It doesn't do reverse-cherrypicks, and there's an edge case where it doesn't give a conflict when it should.
[04:57] <lifeless> later all
[04:57] <poolie> have a good weekend
[04:58] <abentley> lifeless: later
[04:59] <lifeless> poolie: you have mail; if you want a call ring now :)
[05:00] <poolie> thanks
[05:00] <poolie> no i don't think so
[05:00] <poolie> am just learning more about builddeb
[07:58] <appcine> hi! getting "bzr: warning: unknown encoding . Continuing with ascii encoding." every time I call bzr.
[07:59] <appcine> echo $LANG reports C
[07:59] <appcine> LC_ALL is not set
[07:59] <appcine> tried exporting LANG as sv_SE.UTF-8 too, still the same message
[07:59] <appcine> Mac OS X 10.5.2
[08:05] <Debolaz> Eww, UTF-8
[08:05] <Debolaz> Latin1++
[08:21] <ubotu> New bug: #188058 in bzr-gentoo-overlay "Launchpad transport error installing bzr-vimdiff-0_pre17 (dup-of: 181945)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188058
[08:34] <appcine_> So, I've pushed my source to my server -- bzr update doesn't work, what do I run to initialize?
[08:44] <kedmccabe> What's the best/recommended way to install bzr on OS X; easy_install or macports?
[08:51] <appcine> kedmccabe: Probably what you're most used to working with
[08:51] <appcine> I used ports .. because, well I use it for lots of things and it's easy to keep stuff updated.
[10:55] <rotty> how's the support for cherry-picking these times? bzr still does not track them, right?
[10:59] <dato> nope
[11:01] <rotty> :-/
[11:20] <lifeless> rotty: will be discussing this in the up coming sprint
[11:23] <rotty> so it could be implemented in the foreseeable future?
[11:38] <appcine_> How do you ignore all files in a certain directory? Like bzr ignore dir/*, but that adds all specific files to the .bzrignore file .. should I manually edit the file?
[11:38] <appcine_> :)
[11:39] <luks> I think bzr ignore 'dir/*' should work
[11:39] <luks> or "dir/*" on windows
[11:39] <luks> (to disable the * in the shell)
[11:40] <appcine_> sweet
[11:40] <appcine_> worked, thanks :)
[11:48] <appcine> can you remove all ".svn" directories from your project somehow?
[11:48] <appcine> I added them, and the ingored them .. now I want to remove them :P
[12:16] <Peng> appcine: If you're on *nix or something, that would be easy. 'find -name .svn -execdir bzr rm {} +' or something.
[12:28] <rotty> lifeless: I have an ideas for a new feature: tracking the currently-checked-out revision, so when you do "bzr get -r FOO", a subsequent "bzr status" will compare against the revision FOO and not HEAD
[12:28] <rotty> does that make sense?
[12:30] <dato> jelmer: ping?
[12:30] <jelmer> dato: pong
[12:31] <dato> jelmer: I have a situation, and I'd like to know whether rebase could help. well. situation. I commited some stuff over a revision that I didn't thought it was there...
[12:31] <dato> how much would I need to write to make rebase re-commit the good ones on top of $BAD-1
[12:31] <dato> I don't mind a dirty+ad-hoc solution
[12:32] <jelmer> well, there's also the "replay" command that's part of rebase
[12:32] <dato> oh
[12:32] <dato> ooh
[12:32] <jelmer> if you check out $BAD-1 then you can just run "bzr replay -r<revision-to-replay>"
[12:33] <dato> right
[12:33] <dato> thank you
[12:33] <jelmer> for $BAD+1
[12:38] <dato> I get a conflict, whereas I think I shouldn't get one
[12:38] <dato> $BAD touches foo1.py
[12:39] <dato> and $BAD+1 is a merge that does not touch foo1.py
[12:39] <dato> ?
[12:40] <dato> jelmer: ^
[12:46] <fullermd> rotty: Err?  get == branch; it does do that...
[12:47] <rotty> fullermd: but "revert -r" doesn't, does it?
[12:48] <hallu> hello, i'm running into a repository compatibility problem with bzr hosted on launchpad.
[12:48] <fullermd> Well, what you'd want for that use case isn't revert, it's "update -r".
[12:48] <hallu> i used svn-import to create a new branch on my machine.
[12:48] <fullermd> Which comes with a minor hitch.
[12:48] <hallu> then i push it onto launchpad
[12:49] <hallu> but bzr co complains that KnitPackRepository is not compatible with RemoteRepository...
[12:49] <rotty> fullermd: according to "bzr update --help", update doesn't have that option "-r"
[12:49] <fullermd> rotty: That's the minor hitch   8-}
[12:50] <hallu> i should say: I push it *first* and that works, then I try *bzr co* and that fails.
[12:51] <dato> oh well, I used WorkingTree.commit for $BAD+1. replay did $BAD+2,3 fine
[12:52] <rotty> fullermd: is this implemented in bzr HEAD?
[12:52]  * fullermd shakes his head.
[12:56] <fullermd> rotty: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/45719
[12:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 45719 in bzr "update command cannot take a revision number" [Medium,Fix committed]
[13:18] <appcine> Peng: Ah, yes. I'm on unix. Something like the find-command might work, but {} doesn't print the path to the file .. know how to do that? :)
[13:20] <Peng> appcine: It doesn't? What? Depending on your shell, you might need to escape it.
[13:20] <appcine> find . -name .DS_Store -execdir echo {} +
[13:20] <appcine> prints: .DS_Store .DS_Store .DS_Store
[13:20] <appcine> bash on os x
[13:21] <appcine> ah
[13:21] <Peng> appcine: Yeah, exactly. execdir 'cd'es to the directory and then executes it.
[13:21] <Peng> appcine: It's supposed to be safer. Shrug.
[13:21] <appcine> Peng: Hmm, hehe.. let me try again .. bzr reported that .DS_Store didn't exist
[13:22] <appcine> with --exec it worked
[13:23] <appcine> Peng: Nevermind me. I'm just sloppy. It works just fine.
[13:23] <appcine> Thanks for the tip
[13:32] <rotty> fullermd: where can I get a recent version of this patch?
[13:33] <rotty> (the repos mentioned in the report don't apply to current HEAD anymore)
[13:34] <fullermd> I don't think there is one.
[13:35] <rotty> :-(
[14:01]  * fullermd ponders.
[14:02] <fullermd> I guess poolie's long since gone for the night...
[14:09]  * lamont wonders when bzr 1.2.0 will hit the ppa
[14:10] <LarstiQ> lamont: it did yesterday
[14:10] <LarstiQ> or well, the buildds and then failed
[14:10] <lamont> it's not there....
[14:10] <LarstiQ> so eh yeah, can't use it yet :)
[14:12]  * lamont notes the lack of a debian directory in the tarball, too
[14:14] <LarstiQ> lamont: which one, upstream?
[14:14] <lamont> launchpad.net/bzrtools/...
[14:15] <LarstiQ> I'm not clear on what you mean, but fwiw there are something like 4 different debian dirs needed
[14:15] <LarstiQ> since dapper/etch/sid are all different enough that there is no universal packaging (yet?)
[14:16] <lamont> most people tend to package something that's the latest...
[14:17] <LarstiQ> as the Bazaar project, debs for all those distributions need to be made
[14:18] <LarstiQ> anyway, I haven't been involved in that area for a while now
[14:42] <lamont> heh.  it took longer to test the backport to dapper/edgy than it did to do it.
[15:14]  * fullermd wonders whether 1.2 is officially released.
[15:15] <fullermd> I see the file, but I haven't seen any announcements.
[15:16] <ubotu> New bug: #145811 in nautilus-python "python-nautilus: Feisty: Python script's methods seem to be not called by extension." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145811
[15:18]  * rotty is annoyed that the "update -r" patch has been abandoned
[15:19] <fullermd> Here's your number; there's the line   :p
[15:19] <rotty> unfortunatly, I'm not able to forward-port the patch, as I don't have knowledge of bzr internals
[15:20] <Peng> I have an entirely off-topic quandary: I created a GPG key for myself 5 days ago. I had a copy of my private key on a server I don't own the whole time. Should I be paranoid and revoke it or not? I'm not using it for much so it would be no big deal if I did revoke it.
[15:22] <fullermd> I s'pose it depends on how much you trust whoever has root on it.
[15:24] <Peng> Also, if I ever got a VPS, I might need to put the private key on it, which would be just as bad...
[15:25]  * fullermd shrugs.
[15:25] <fullermd> Any hardware that anybody else ever has physical access to is insecure and untrustworthy if you're paranoid enough.
[15:26] <Peng> I'm trying to find the right level of paranoia.
[15:30] <johnny> and the changelog needs to be updated for 1.2 too..
[17:50] <radix> is there any recent .deb of bazaar that works on dapper?
[17:55] <Peng> radix: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive ?
[17:55] <Peng> Huh, Hardy and Dapper are the only ones that have had their 1.2rc1 debs built.
[17:55]  * Peng wanders off.
[17:57] <radix> Peng: the dapper debs from ppa are broken
[17:57] <radix> they depend on python2.5
[18:00] <Peng> Oh.
[18:00] <Peng> Nice.
[18:00] <Peng> I dunno nothin' then.
[18:00]  * Peng wanders off.
[18:00] <Peng> Sorry I couldn't help.
[18:32] <jdong> Are the bazaar-vcs.org branches going to be packs?
[18:32] <jdong> I notice that they're still dirstate/knits currently
[18:34] <beuno> jdong, bzr.dev has been in packs for a while now
[18:34] <beuno> beuno@beuno-laptop:~/bzr_devel/bzr.dev$ bzr info http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/
[18:34] <beuno> Standalone branch (format: pack-0.92)
[18:35] <jdong> beuno: what? no way
[18:35]  * jdong questions his sanity
[18:36]  * beuno questions it too  :p
[18:36] <jdong> beuno: oh I see my idiocy
[18:36] <jdong> beuno: I looked at bzr.1.2
[18:36] <jdong> not bzr.dev
[18:36] <beuno> jdong, I think 0.92 and on have been in packs on bzr.dev. Especially since at that poing packs<>knits operations where painfully slow
[18:37] <jdong> WOW the performance difference with packs over HTTP is very noticeable
[18:38] <beuno> jdong, yeap, lifeless and jam did an amazing job at it  :D
[18:38] <beuno> and I understand the smart server has improved greatly too
[18:38] <jdong> yeah I'm impressed at dumb http alone
[18:38] <jdong> I haven't branched something big from HTTP since packs came about
[18:39] <beuno> I think the "less amounts of round-trips" was the key
[18:39] <jdong> right, that's always been the case
[18:39] <beuno> gazillion knits vs a dozen packs
[18:40]  * beuno wonders why the 1.2 branch is in knits...
[18:40] <beuno> and no poolie around...  :/
[18:41] <jdong> beuno: yeah the 1.2 branch took nearly 5 minutes to get, while I just grabbed dev in under a minute
[18:41] <jdong> and looking @ how it's 85MB, most of that time would've been simply network transfer
[18:42] <beuno> jdong, I'll send an email to the list and see if it just got forgotten or if there is a good reason for it
[18:42] <jdong> beuno: cool
[18:42] <beuno> thanks for the heads up!
[18:42] <jdong> anytime
[18:51]  * jdong reconciles bzr.dev for fun
[18:52] <beuno> jdong, if it's in packs, it should be fairly fast. Knits, on the other hand, might take a while. I have 3gb branch that took 40+ hours to reconcile on a AMD 4000+ dual core
[18:53] <jdong> beuno: yeah right now the packs are taking over 10 min to reconcile, looks CPU bound
[18:53] <jdong> oh well, i twas for fun anway
[18:54] <beuno> jdong, you can also run "bzr check" if you feel like making the CPU sweat a while  :p
[20:00] <mw> someone should change the topic to mention 1.2
[20:02] <johnny> and add a changelog entry
[20:02] <johnny> on the site
[20:06] <mario_limonciell> is there no way to pass bzr through an authenticating proxy?
[20:09] <mario_limonciell> it would seem according to bug 83954 that the support should be there
[20:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 83954 in bzr "Error while using "bzr branch" through proxy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83954
[20:20] <ubotu> New bug: #156299 in bzr "bzr bash completion error (compgen: --: invalid option)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156299
[21:09] <mtaylor> GARRRRR
[21:10]  * mtaylor hates that Branch.open_containing() returns a tuple and not a branch.
[21:10] <mtaylor> just FWIW
[21:59] <treeform_> hey my network is just awful but i need to copy a big bzr repo (300mb) to a server it always disconnect while doing it
[22:00] <treeform_> is there a way to zip up the repo and rsync it there?
[22:02] <beuno> treeform_, "pull" has resume integrated
[22:02] <beuno> you can of course just rsync the folder
[22:02] <beuno> and/or zip it
[22:02] <beuno> you don't need anything special
[22:03] <treeform_> beuno, does push has resume integrated?
[22:04] <beuno> treeform_, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see a reason why not
[22:04] <treeform_> it always errors out with a python stack trace so i think it bzr just crashes
[22:04] <beuno> treeform_, what version of bzr are you using?
[22:05] <beuno> if it's spitting out a traceback it should be a bug
[22:05] <treeform_> 1.1
[22:05] <treeform_> sorry i would post the trace back but i dont have it
[22:05] <beuno> treeform_, would you happen to have a traceback handy that you can paste somewhere?
[22:05] <beuno> ah, right
[22:05] <treeform_> i will run it again just wait about 10 min
[22:05] <beuno> well, just plain rsyning the dir will work just fine
[22:06] <treeform_> but the dir is about 600mb
[22:06] <treeform_> with the .bzr 300mb and the contents is 300mb
[22:06] <beuno> treeform_, can you run "bzr info" and see what repository type it is?
[22:06] <beuno> treeform_, I suppose you can rsync the .bzr directory and then just do "bzr revert"  (which is sort of what bzr branch would do)
[22:07] <beuno> zip up .bzr, rsync that, unzip, "bzr revert"
[22:07] <beuno> (I'm sure there are better solutions though)
[22:07] <treeform_> as long as that works
[22:08] <treeform_> "Standalone tree (format: pack-0.92)"
[22:08] <treeform_> oh my format is lower version
[22:09] <beuno> treeform_, that's the latest version
[22:09] <treeform_> i been using bzr since .14 and never had reasons to upgrade but it looks like i did at .92
[22:09] <treeform_> oh ok
[22:10] <treeform_> i think i needed to upgrade it because some one could not read it
[22:10] <fullermd> That seems unlikely...
[22:10] <beuno> treeform_, if they have a pre 0.92 version than they might not be able to read packs
[22:10] <treeform_> ok but i am up todate?
[22:11] <beuno> treeform_, if you have bzr 1.1 and are using the packs repository, yes
[22:11] <treeform_> ok thanks
[22:11] <beuno> np
[22:12] <fullermd> 1.1?  Jeez, that's SO yesterday...
[22:13] <treeform_> fullermd, i should upgrade?
[22:13] <beuno> fullermd, :p
[22:13] <beuno> treeform_, 1.2 is out _today_
[22:14] <beuno> so 1.1 is _yesterday_
[22:14] <beuno> upgrading is always recommended, but you're good at 1.1
[22:14] <treeform_> oh i just installed 1.2 on the server
[22:14] <treeform_> that is how it crashes http://dpaste.com/35397/
[22:15] <beuno> treeform_, it says you're using bzr 1.0
[22:15] <beuno> and, a release candidate
[22:15] <treeform_> ok 1.2 it is
[22:16] <beuno> I'd recommend upgrading to at least 1.0 final
[22:16] <beuno> treeform_, your traceback says: bzr 1.0.0.candidate.1 on python 2.5.1.final.0 (linux2)
[22:17] <treeform_> yes it does
[22:17] <treeform_> i am sure i am wrong
[22:19] <treeform_> grr installing it also fails http://dpaste.com/35399/
[22:22] <treeform_> i got my current bzr is the latest in my repos
[22:24] <rthalley> Assume we have a centralized shared repository for product foo.  directory "foo" has been bzr init-repo'd.  we then make branch "foo/head", and do work.  Now, getting reading for a release, we bzr branch foo/head foo/release-1.0.  Question: is there any way to see what branches are available within foo?  (within bzr, that is...)
[22:28] <mtaylor> rthalley: not that I know of
[22:28] <mtaylor> rthalley: but a simple ls of foo will give you some idea
[22:29] <vin> how does the bzr_access script work? I've added set up the .ssh/authorized_key file. Do I just invoke the script with the appropriate parameters?
[22:29] <abentley> rthalley: bzrtools provides a "branches" command that lists the branches under a given location
[22:37] <rthalley> thanks, that's handy.  now a "best practices" question...  let's say we now finish foo-1.0 and ship it.  do I tag foo/release-1.0 to indicate the version that was released?  Do we worry about people still being able to commit to foo-release-1.0?
[22:52] <jdong> is it clean to clean .bzr/repository/upload by hand or is there a tool for it?
[22:52] <jdong> s/clean/safe/
[22:53] <mneptok> jdong: sounds like my dating career
[22:54] <jdong> mneptok: that probably explains the global shortage of nitrile gloves :)
[22:55] <jdong> some little developing conscience in my head is telling me I shouldn't go into .bzr with /bin/rm and whack out things I don't think belong :D
[23:01] <foom> whatcouldpossiblygowrong
[23:02] <jdong> lol well ASS-U-ME-ing that nothing is uploading to the location, I would expect the 35MB of packs in upload to be simply in-transit cut-connection junk
[23:03] <abentley> jdong: you can't break your repository by removing the contents of upload.
[23:03]  * jdong saves this chat log ;-)
[23:03] <abentley> If someone was in the middle of uploading, you might cause their upload to fail with a nasty error.
[23:04] <jdong> awesome
[23:04] <jdong> this one branch I have, I regularly commit to it via a crappy connection... it's nearly double its pristine size because of cruft in upload
[23:05] <jdong> I'm wondering if bzr should have a command for dealing with cruft like that?
[23:05] <abentley> Well, perhaps robert can fix that, but it's not an open-and-shut case like obsolete-packs.
[23:06] <jdong> granted, else it would've been naturally fixed already
[23:06] <jdong> btw if you haven't heard yet, packs rock :)
[23:06] <jdong> I am astounded by the performance difference over plain HTTP
[23:07] <jdong> now if there's only a way for LP to upgrade all branches to packs rather than me having to sftp them.
[23:07] <abentley> Yeah, I did see your talk in the scrollback.
[23:08] <jdong> yeah, you guys really came through for me. That was just about the last complaint I had about bzr :)
[23:08] <abentley> jdong: You would not believe how snowed-under the launchpad-bazaar team is.
[23:08] <abentley> I don't think we'll have time for nice-to-haves in the near future.
[23:08] <jdong> I can imagine :(
[23:08] <jdong> oh well scrape-and-loop time :)
[23:09] <jdong> if there's one skill I've learned in my time around Ubuntu, it's how to abuse Launchpad :)
[23:09] <abentley> But create a blueprint, and then we'll at least have it in the system.
[23:09] <jdong> yeah, I'll do so in a sec
[23:10] <fullermd> Seems like "smart server upgrade verb" would fill that niche pretty well.
[23:10] <jdong> well the thing is...
[23:10] <jdong> I don't think $average_lp_user knows or cares what the heck a pack is.
[23:11] <jdong> and I don't think people are aware in general of this massive speedup. LP should be more active in telling owners of branches to upgrade to packs
[23:22] <abentley> Where would you suggest we tell people about packs?
[23:27] <mtaylor> when was rich-root-packs added?
[23:28] <lifeless> jdong: yes it should and I think there is a bug open for htat
[23:28] <lifeless> mtaylor: 1.0 IIRC
[23:29] <lifeless> mtaylor: bzr help formats or so should say
[23:29] <lifeless> also bzr should start nagging soon
[23:29] <mtaylor> lifeless: thanks
[23:49] <beuno> anyone up to helping me brainstorm what tests I should include with the automatic plugin thingie?   I've got working code and would like to strap on the tests and send to the list for initial review
[23:53] <abentley> beuno: You should test all the commands you add, and the major functions you add.
[23:53] <abentley> I'm not sure whether you're doing network stuff.  That can be annoying, but you should be able to run your own server if necessary.
[23:53] <beuno> abentley, the problem is that I'm not actually adding any commands at this point, just catching unknown commands and checking to see if another plugin provides it
[23:54] <abentley> Okay, so you should be testing the command-line functionality you've added.
[23:58] <beuno> abentley, right, I got that far. The question is a bit more specific. I should make the test execute a command that I know will be caught as a plugin and test if the output is correct?  Maybe also commands that I know will be unknown and make sure they are still unknown?
[23:58] <abentley> Yes.
[23:59] <abentley> You don't necessarily have to do exhaustive tests of the commandline.
[23:59] <abentley> But that's pretty key functionality.


[13:05] <jelmer> @pabs3 do you perhaps have a lp: alias in your ~/.gitconfig?
[14:05] <pabs3> yes, that was it, sorry :(


[03:03] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: elementary OS 6 Intros a Simpler Alt Tab Experience @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/11/elementary-os-6-intros-a-simpler-alt-tab-experience (by Joey Sneddon)
[10:00] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Design and Web team summary – 19 November 2021 @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/design-and-web-team-summary-19-november-2021
[14:21] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Xiaomi’s CyberDog Robot Runs Ubuntu @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/12/xiaomi-cyberdog-runs-ubuntu (by Joey Sneddon)
[18:41] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: What is a managed IT service? @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/what-is-a-managed-it-service
[23:20] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Utkarsh Gupta: FOSS Activites in September 2021 @ https://utkarsh2102.com/posts/foss-in-sept-21/
[23:20] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Utkarsh Gupta: FOSS Activites in October 2021 @ https://utkarsh2102.com/posts/foss-in-oct-21/


[06:43] <guzman> para que sirve este chat?
[13:34] <laser> alot of stuff will not load on start up on my asus g55v  / don't think i have the who;e studio package working
[13:42] <laser> ubutu studio 14.042 lts
[14:03] <laser> new user name?
[14:04] <laser> I tried the above /  did not do any thing   bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
[14:09] <laser> I installed earlier and could get no sound to work even with all the online helpso i reinstallled / let me use same name but made me change pc name


[18:46] <plugwash> Where can I find information on why a package is not migrating from proposed to release?
[19:09] <RikMills> plugwash: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
[19:15] <ginggs> plugwash: name that package
[19:17] <plugwash> fpc, I wanted to confirm if the reasons it wasn't migrating from released to proposed were the same as the reason it wasn't migrating to testing in Debian or whether there were additional issues.
[19:17] <plugwash> *from proposed to release
[19:18] <RikMills> autopkgtest failures by the looks of it
[19:19] <plugwash> Yeah, i'm already in the process of dealing with the ones in fpc itself, the one in diffoscope should be fixed in the latest version of diffoscope which then leads to the question of why diffoscope isn't migrating.
[19:21] <RikMills> diffoscope seems to be failing tests for the rdep 'reprotest'
[20:05]  * ginggs retries reprotest tests
[20:14] <Pici> 21
[20:54]  * plugwash has just uploaded fpc to sid
[21:29] <ginggs> so we got a green light on reprotest/ppc64el
[21:30] <ginggs> i'm retrying amd64 and s390x with the new setuptools
[21:30] <plugwash> BTW do the logs have a timestamp in them anywhere or only a datestamp?
[21:32] <ginggs> plugwash: which logs?  where are you looking?
[21:33] <plugwash> the autopkgtest logs linked from the excuses page
[21:34] <ginggs> e.g<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:35] <ginggs> i see: autopkgtest [19:09:51]: starting date: 2020-08-14
[21:36] <ginggs> if you click on the architecture you see a list with dates and times
[21:37] <plugwash> ahh the time is before the date
[22:22] <ginggs> green lights on reprotest/amd64 and /s390x, diffoscope should migrate shortly
[22:22] <ginggs> plugwash: see query


[23:11] <gwildor> archboxman, if anything, on the netbook, it will step down to a slower core speed, or disable a core.... it will not put a load on it....
[23:11] <erUSUL> so0ky: not tricked; it just probides the needed 32 bit libraries
[23:11] <jrib> alyssum: irc channels as big as this one have a 1-line memory
[23:11] <karl_> hello can any one help???
[23:11] <MindVirus> archboxman: You realize a load on the CPU causes more power consumption?
[23:11] <olskolirc> yes ubuntu3456 any of the ones for ubuntu will do
[23:11] <ubuntu3456> 32bit
[23:11] <MindVirus> archboxman: You are a troll.
[23:11] <jrib> !helpme | karl_
[23:11] <alyssum> my audio was working *FINE* just an hour ago.  the sound card is recognized by ALSA...it's just the driver has seemed to got messed up?  anyone?
[23:11] <so0ky> i see.  would you know how to install the ia32 packages on ubuntu server?
[23:11] <`mOOse`> MindVirus, use xubuntu - problem solved
[23:11] <erUSUL> alyssum: rebooted ?
[23:11] <archboxman> MindVirus: I worked in Us Coast Guard and Us Army with a top secert clearence we had lots of equipment drawing from tanks and other external charges that drag down the system...
[23:11] <jrib> !apt > so0ky
[23:11] <alyssum> erUSUL: did that once already.  but i'll try again after the reinstalls...
[23:12] <gwildor> archboxman, no, you didnt
[23:12] <MindVirus> `mOOse`: Please stop.
[23:12] <MindVirus> archboxman: You are awesome.
[23:12] <erUSUL> alyssum: no need if you already tried
[23:12] <archboxman> gwildor: yes I did lol
[23:12] <archboxman> lol
[23:12] <archboxman> lol
[23:12] <FloodBot2> archboxman: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:12] <MindVirus> archboxman: You are not very used to the Linux community then.
[23:12] <MindVirus> archboxman: Or at least how Linux works.
[23:12] <jrib> archboxman: please keep the discussion related to ubuntu support only
[23:12] <gwildor> archboxman, then you should inform the us coast guard that drawing power from a battery does not put a load on a cpu...
[23:12] <MindVirus> Could someone help me decrease Rhythmbox usage?
[23:13] <MindVirus> archboxman: 15+ years don't mean anything if you've not learned anything since then.
[23:13] <meowbuntu> uhi what is up with www.imagebin.ca it is broken. its better site as it gives oprtopn to poste for a day a week or month. over imagebin.org. where you casnt even delete posts
[23:13] <karl_> does someone know of a blackberry download to use it as a modem?
[23:13] <ChogyDan> MindVirus: maybe this command can give some insight: time gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=foo.mp3
[23:13] <gwildor> MindVirus, i would suggest maybe using a lighter player, xmms or beep maybe will give better results. rythmbox is heavy for me, even when plugged in
[23:14] <magn3ts> How can I get to try the new single window gimp in ubuntu?
[23:14] <MindVirus> gwildor: Perhaps, but Rhythmbox used to use ~20% CPU with Pulse.
[23:14] <MindVirus> Now uses ~40%.
[23:14] <archboxman> MindVirus: yes I am they think power and connections in a different way they don't see that gui can drag down the system preformance.l.. I hang out in ArchLinux , Slackware and Debian they understand cpu usage because they run Fluxbox and other windows managers for this
[23:14] <peterhe> guys please, i need some help with my printer. i cant set it up in cups
[23:14] <peterhe> it is connected via usb
[23:14] <Happehwalrus> magn3ts: Single window Gimp?
[23:14] <MindVirus> archboxman: You should really stop advising people on what you don't know.
[23:14] <anom01y> xmms
[23:14] <archboxman> MindVirus: furthermore look into crunchbag to reduce the load
[23:14] <erUSUL> !xmms
[23:14] <magn3ts> Happehwalrus, heh, been under a rock? I kid, but its all the rage!
[23:14] <jrib> MindVirus, archboxman: move on.  please.
[23:14] <magn3ts> Happehwalrus, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKG8j9faBA
[23:15] <MindVirus> jrib: OK.
[23:15] <archboxman> MindVirus: your not very bright are you...
[23:15] <MindVirus> Bye.
[23:15] <so0ky> thanks you so much for your help thus far.  how do I get a list of packages to install?
[23:15] <meowbuntu> ok is there anything else i need to select here in my sorclist http://imagebin.org/84827
[23:16] <archboxman> lol good bye ... bye bye :)
[23:16] <jrib> so0ky: ubottu's link explains
[23:16] <so0ky> okay
[23:17] <MindVirus> ChogyDan: Still around?
[23:17] <meowbuntu> so0ky, what are you truying to install
[23:17] <ChogyDan> MindVirus: ya, but I don't know much more than what I posted
[23:17] <meowbuntu> ok is there anything else i need to select here in my sorclist http://imagebin.org/84827
[23:17] <karl_> any know of a blackberry device to use as a modem??
[23:17] <jaypur> my usb start up disc software is creating a bootable usb, but it's freezing at 99%, is it normal??
[23:17] <MindVirus> ChogyDan: I don't know how to use your command, though.
[23:18] <ChogyDan> MindVirus: it would be something you run on the terminal, change foo.mp3 to an mp3 that you have
[23:18] <MindVirus> ChogyDan: I know that.
[23:18] <HaPK> hello
[23:18] <MindVirus> ChogyDan: ERROR: from element /GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstFileSrc:filesrc0: Internal data flow error.
[23:18] <MilitantPotato> I can't get a share to work at all for two ubuntu machines
[23:18] <meowbuntu> jaypur, what application are you using to create a bootable usb
[23:18] <ChogyDan> MindVirus: eek, I don't know
[23:19] <MilitantPotato> how do you browse nfs shares?
[23:19] <HaPK> My scanner doesn't seems to work... it's a Genius ColorPage HR6X Slim, can somebody help me?
[23:19] <jaypur> meowbuntu, the one that comes with ubuntu 9.10
[23:19] <MindVirus> ChogyDan: Aye.
[23:19] <MindVirus> Thanks anyways.
[23:19] <ChogyDan> MindVirus: I found it on the gnome bug linked from here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gstreamer/+bug/73744
[23:19] <meowbuntu> jaypur, are you doing it from a live cd or full install os
[23:19] <MilitantPotato> !nfs
[23:19] <jaypur> meowbuntu, ;iso
[23:20] <JrodDCx> jaypur: You Should Try Unetbooten to make a bootable USB
[23:20] <meowbuntu> jaypur, no are you running in live cd mode or hdd os
[23:20] <so0ky> i think i am downloading the needed libraries now.  thank you so much for your help.
[23:20] <jaypur> meowbuntu, running what???
[23:20] <christopherius> clear
[23:20] <meowbuntu> your system
[23:20] <jaypur> i'm on ubuntu, and i need to create a usb start up
[23:20] <HaPK> My scanner doesn't seems to work... it's a Genius ColorPage HR6X Slim, can somebody help me?
[23:21] <jaypur> JrodDCx, thx
[23:21] <meowbuntu> yes jaypur i know is it an os or a live cd you are on now
[23:21] <meowbuntu> ^ of ubuntu
[23:21] <JrodDCx> jaypur:  No Problems :)
[23:21] <jaypur> meowbuntu, on my laptop X)
[23:22] <meowbuntu> jaypur, anyway just run the usb startup disrk creater should work fine.
[23:22] <HaPK> My scanner doesn't seems to work... it's a Genius ColorPage HR6X Slim, can somebody help me?
[23:22] <jaypur> meowbuntu, i'll use other...
[23:22] <meowbuntu> jaypur, yes so its a ful insxtall on your laptop. and not a live cd
[23:22] <jaypur> meowbuntu, the one that comes with ubuntu is freezing at 99%
[23:22] <bikcmp> Hello all, kinda having a issue with my server: I accidently used apt-get install php5 & (note the &) and keeps running although detatched.
[23:23] <bikcmp> I've killed it with ps x a few times but keeps coming back
[23:23] <bikcmp> any ideas?
[23:23] <meowbuntu> jaypur, if you are using a full os installed on laptop then get unetbootin
[23:23] <Sinani201> bikcmp: Do you want to get rid of php5
[23:23] <jaypur> meowbuntu, just got it X)
[23:24] <bikcmp> Sinani201: I was trying to install something and had a & symbol in it
[23:24] <meowbuntu> jaypur, http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[23:24] <bikcmp> and now apt won't die
[23:24] <meowbuntu> jaypur, what filesys is on usb
[23:24] <karl_> any one know of a blackberry manager download for karmic please??
[23:24] <jaypur> meowbuntu, i dont know, how can i see that
[23:25] <HaPK> My scanner doesn't seems to work... it's a Genius ColorPage HR6X Slim, can somebody help me?
[23:25] <erUSUL> bikcmp: tried --> « fg %1 »
[23:25] <jaypur> lol unetbootin does not have 9.10 live
[23:25] <bikcmp> HaPK: Repeating doesn't do anything
[23:25] <erUSUL> !sane
[23:25] <cjcopi> bikcmp:  you can bring it to the foreground using  fg
[23:25] <bikcmp> erUSUL: try that command?
[23:25] <MilitantPotato> In NFS, how do you enable the client to access sub directories?
[23:25] <meowbuntu> jaypur, usb flashdrives, hdd usually come with fat 32 install gparted adn run that it will tel you
[23:25] <karl_> hello
[23:25] <erUSUL> bikcmp: that should bring apt back to the terminal
[23:25] <bikcmp> erUSUL: hrm
[23:25] <HaPK> so nobody can help me? oh... :(
[23:25] <bikcmp> it won't
[23:26] <bikcmp> no job?
[23:26] <meowbuntu> !gparted | jaypur
[23:26] <erUSUL> bikcmp: run « jobs »
[23:26] <Scunizi> 9.10..  I'd like to run it with Wine so I can load MS Visual C++
[23:28] <mark7> Scunizi: Are there getty instances running?
[23:28] <bikcmp> -9 worked, thanks you guy's :)
[23:28] <bikcmp> what does -9 flag do?
[23:28] <Scunizi> mark7: ?
[23:28] <meowbuntu> jaypur, when you find out what filesys you have let me know
[23:28] <mark7> Scunizi: You said that you can't switch to your ttys
[23:28] <alyssum> still working on this problem: audio worked fine, but suddenly alsa no longer saw card (while playing shell-fm).  have tried rmmod snd-intel8x0 and then modprobe it.  no errors.  have purged alsa-utils and reinstalled.  still aplay -l returns "no soundcard" and lspci /proc/asound/cards list them fine... help!
[23:28] <jaypur> meowbuntu, i just got a new unetbooting just a sec
[23:28] <Scunizi> mark7: ah.. didn't relate the question to mine.. I'll check
[23:29] <alyssum> does my user need to belong to some audio group??
[23:29] <mark7> Scunizi: There should be one getty process running for each tty.  If not, it won't have been allocated.
[23:29] <erUSUL> bikcmp: send the sigkill signal a signal that processes can not avoid
[23:29] <v3rr3z> I was wondering, does a game that is only for windows run faster, slower, or at the same speed with running wine on linux?
[23:29] <karl_> bikcmp
[23:29] <erUSUL> bikcmp: should not be used lightly
[23:29] <Scunizi> mark7: what's the easiest way to find that out?  cli
[23:29] <mark7> Scunizi: ps auxw|grep getty
[23:29] <erUSUL> v3rr3z: slower; the wmulation does allways have some overhead
[23:30] <erUSUL> v3rr3z: slower; the emulation does allways have some overhead
[23:30] <mark7> v3rr3z: IME, typically slower but disk I/O and VM tends to be faster
[23:30] <karl_> do you know of any system for blackberry to use it as a modem any one
[23:30] <Scunizi> mark7: there's one listed  .. lists in red and no pid associated with it.
[23:30] <alyssum> ok, new update, sudo aplay -l does work...so it is indeed a permissions issue...  my groups for my user are: alyssum adm dialout cdrom video plugdev mythtv admin
[23:30] <jaypur> meowbuntu, gparted on  what do you wanna know?
[23:30] <Scunizi> mark7: must be tty7
[23:30] <v3rr3z> thanks
[23:31] <mark7> mark7: You should have lines like this: "/sbin/getty -8 38400 tty4" etc for each tty in use
[23:31] <Scunizi> mark7: might have something to do with plasma craching.. or something else.. some of my widgets on the screen are black.. and "notify" crashed earlier too.. might have to restart.
[23:31] <mark7> Scunizi: I doubt it
[23:31] <Scunizi> mark7: nope.. nothing like that listed in the grep of getty..
[23:32] <meowbuntu> filesystem type of flash drive remember
[23:32] <mark7> Scunizi: Do you have entries in /etc/init/tty[1-6].conf?
[23:32] <meowbuntu> is it fat 32
[23:32] <meowbuntu> ^ jaypur
[23:32] <karl_> any one know of a device for blaackberry
[23:33] <meowbuntu> karl_, a device for blackberry is a blackbery ???????
[23:33] <usser> erUSUL, theoretically wine should give native performance though
[23:33] <karl_> sorry meant install to use as a modem
[23:33] <Scunizi> mark7: yep
[23:33] <mark7> Scunizi: So for some reason upstart just hasn't started them.  Hmm.
[23:33] <meowbuntu> karl_, you meaning an application on ubuntu that can run blackberries
[23:34] <Scunizi> mark7: should I /etc/init.d/getty start ?
[23:34] <karl_> meowbuntu yer thats the one
[23:34] <mark7> Scunizi: I doubt that there's a script for that
[23:34] <mark7> Scunizi: It's treated specially
[23:34] <Scunizi> mark7: your right.. :(
[23:34] <alyssum> ok, it's fixed. needed to add user to the audio group after all....  don't know how that was lost to begin with though.
[23:34] <meowbuntu> karl_, try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/Blackberry
[23:35] <Scunizi> mark7: it's weird .. this is the first time I've noticed they are not available..
[23:35] <meowbuntu> karl_, http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/BlackBerry-Curve-BlackBerry-8300/ubuntu-and-Blackberry-desktop-manager/td-p/229700;jsessionid=6F5BBAEEE98D64EE2A94A8F8C315799D
[23:35] <Scunizi> mark7: I do use them on occasion .. at least every other day.
[23:35] <mark7> Scunizi: What happens when you run sudo /sbin/getty -8 38400 tty1?
[23:35] <meowbuntu> karl_, just google ubuntu "9.10 blackberry" that should get you lots of info
[23:35] <meowbuntu> !blackberry
[23:36] <Ganang> can anyone recommend a good svn client for linux, like tortoisesvn for windows?
[23:36] <mark7> Scunizi: Do you get complaining about some sort of error, or can you now switch to tty1?
[23:36] <meowbuntu> ok is there anything else i need to select here in my sorclist http://imagebin.org/84827
[23:36] <Scunizi> mark7: nope.. that worked for tty1 ..
[23:37] <mark7> Scunizi: Hmm.  So for some reason, getty works, you have the config files telling upstart to start them, but they aren't running
[23:37] <mark7> Scunizi: Nothing in /var/log/messages about getty?
[23:37] <Scunizi> mark7: something must have changed in the latest update.. I'll check the logs
[23:38] <happyface> how do I apply a kernel patch/ just "patch patchname"?
[23:38] <meowbuntu> happyface, what do you mean
[23:39] <kad__> hey ! i want messenger have webcam/voice other than aMSN coz it crash :( any ? thx
[23:39] <Scunizi> mark7: nope.. therer are some kernel segfaults for npviewer.bin though.. and a couple for pulseaudio (expected)
[23:39] <Welshy-Rob> hi , i just (not on purpose) deleted the top task bar panel, is there a way i can get it back :s?
[23:39] <Seveas> Welshy-Rob, rightclick the bottom panel, select 'new panel'
[23:40] <meowbuntu> what is http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu in my sorce list http://imagebin.org/84827  should i turn it on
[23:40] <Seveas> Welshy-Rob, then add the application menu, the notification area, and all other things back to it
[23:40] <Welshy-Rob> Seveas,  okay thanks
[23:40] <happyface> meowbuntu: to apply a patch, I just use "patch patchname"?
[23:41] <meowbuntu> what is http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu in my sorce list http://imagebin.org/84827  should i turn it on
[23:41] <meowbuntu> !patch
[23:41] <Scunizi> mark7: any other ideas?
[23:41] <meowbuntu> ^ happyface see ubotto there
[23:42] <choro_vw> hi all, after several power outages my ubuntu 9.10 install won't boot, are there any tutorials to recover my broken system?
[23:42] <mark7> Scunizi: You grepped your /var/log/messages (and zgrepped the .gz ones) and didn't turn up anything about getty that looked suspicious?
[23:43] <Devrethman> Is there a way to set the default $TERM in gnome-terminal to xterm-256color instead of just xterm?
[23:43] <Scunizi> mark7: only looked in "messages" .. I'll look in the .gz ones.. what's the grep line.. "messages | grep getty" ?
[23:44] <mark7> grep getty /var/log/messages*
[23:44] <mark7> zgrep getty /var/log/messages*gz
[23:44] <Scunizi> k
[23:44] <kad__> hey ! i want messenger have webcam/voice other than aMSN coz it crash :( any ? thx
[23:44] <Devrethman> Or like, is there some equivalent of ~.bashrc that only runs in gnome-terminal?
[23:44] <Scunizi> mark7: nothing returned.
[23:45] <mark7> Scunizi: One wild shot -- for some reason, your system might be in a runlevel that it doesn't start them at
[23:45] <Scunizi> mark7: with either command.
[23:45] <mark7> Scunizi: I don't know why X would start then, but...
[23:45] <mark7> Scunizi: Might try running runlevel
[23:45] <Scunizi> mark7: how do I check what run level I'm in?
[23:45] <jaypur> meowbuntu, fat32?
[23:45] <mark7> Scunizi: the first value is your last runlevel, the second your current
[23:45] <mark7> Scunizi: I'd expect it to read "N 2"
[23:46] <Scunizi> mark7: interesting.. running runlevel returns "unknown"
[23:46] <mark7> Scunizi: I don't know what exactly would cause *that*...
[23:46] <mark7> Scunizi: Looks like that's it's generic error code...
[23:47] <Scunizi> mark7: I'll restart and see what happens..
[23:48] <choro_vw> hi all, after several power outages my ubuntu 9.10 install won't boot, grub actually does initiate, but just after the Ubuntu logo it freezes, any help, please?
[23:48] <FeedHunter> .
[23:48] <mortus> hello?
[23:49] <mortus> testing,anyone home/
[23:49] <Sinani201> Yes?
[23:50] <mortus> hi,been a few years on Ubuntu,looking for best Reference to get step by Step Install,compile for an older Dell.any Recomendation? or is there a better channel to go ask? thanks.
[23:50] <visik7> hi
[23:50] <Scunizi> mark7: runlevel still reports "unknown"
[23:51] <mortus> have inteligence,but light/medium on the Linux side...basically a Newbie, forgot too much.
[23:51] <visik7> anyone know how to use the scan button on a psc 1600 ?
[23:52] <mortus> google search for the Model is comeing up with a bunch of Garbage from 2004,of people having driver issues. I just want a Clean,Fast Install on a Dell 2400...
[23:52] <mortus> any help, would be Appreciated Major!!!I need this thing to Be Fast, only has base 512 Memory.
[23:52] <Sinani201> Do you plan to wipe the hard drive?
[23:53] <Sinani201> It's not that hard… just run the disc as live cd and install.
[23:53] <mortus> Yes, I will,but the Live CD is Hardware Locking after Xwin is Up, thats why Im looking for Step by Step,over the Video Drivers. Seems the 9.10 has an Issue during Xwin Run.
[23:54] <Sinani201> I can't help you with that.
[23:54] <jef91> Help! My internal hard drive is failing to mount with this message: http://pastebin.com/m6963a4cc
[23:54] <Sinani201> You could as it on the forums.
[23:54] <mortus> whats diff between Kubuntu and Ubuntu? never used Kubuntu, I have Ubuntu back at 8.x, 7.x,
[23:55] <psycho_oreos> mortus, kubuntu is simply ubuntu with kde frontend
[23:55] <mac9416> Is sources.list consistently kept in /etc/apt/ in all Debian derivatives and Ubuntu flavors?
[23:55] <mortus> ah, Danka...that was bloody Easy! 8-)
[23:55] <Scunizi> mark7: with the latest kernel upgrade another strange thing happened.. all my installed printers disappeared.. the next day there was a cups update and they reappeared.. probably not related *but*...
[23:55] <jaypur> i just erased my usb and it can't run anymore... i set it to be like (0,0) something like that
[23:56] <kisuke> what it the full mand to mount with the remove_hiberfile option?
[23:56] <jaypur> can't open my pendrive anmore
[23:56] <kisuke>  command?
[23:57] <mortus> psycho,quick question based on above, dell dimension Circa 2003,would be wise to Install ubuntu 7.x,or 8.x,instead of 9.10?for Performance?I really need this little machine to smoke in Speed like a Kiosk? Thanks, for any input.
[23:57] <jef91> Help! My internal hard drive is failing to mount with this message: http://pastebin.com/m6963a4cc
[23:57] <jef91> mortus - always use the latest *buntu. Its the DE that determines speed most times
[23:57] <blakkheim> mortus: it would be best to use a minimal iso and don't use any desktop environment
[23:59] <mortus> jef91,thanks.black thanks,whats a minimum with Xwin/Network .iso,what Label? I pulled current about 681mg .iso?
[23:59] <blakkheim> !mini > mortus
[23:59] <mortus> Thanks,
[23:59] <blakkheim> mortus: have a look at that
[23:59] <kisuke> what it the full command to mount with the remove_hiberfile option?