[00:49]  * thumper tries an experiment
[00:51] <thumper>  519 files changed, 9517 insertions(+), 9259 deletions(-)
[00:51] <thumper> $ git diff master | wc -l
[00:51] <thumper> 65880
[00:51] <thumper> just a small experiment
[01:04] <thumper> wallyworld_: you're on-call reviewer right?
[01:04] <wallyworld_> yeah
[01:06] <wallyworld_> but not if wc -l gives 65000+ lines
[01:13]  * thumper is struggling with something...
[01:21] <thumper> wallyworld_: it was entirely mechanical
[01:25] <wallyworld_> thumper: np, i have to run out to the bank for a bit, can look when i get back
[02:09] <axw> thumper: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1395564
[02:09] <mup> Bug #1395564: jujud constantly spews `juju.worker runner.go:219 exited "identity-file-writer": StateServingInfo not available and we need it` <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395564>
[02:09] <axw> thumper: is that worker meant to be on all machine agents, or just state servers?
[02:10] <thumper> axw: ah... well... that's interesting
[02:10] <thumper> hmm...
[02:10] <thumper> I think it should just be on state servers
[02:11] <thumper> bugger
[02:11] <thumper> at least I think that refactoring is only on master
[02:11] <thumper> and the 1.21 fix didn't have that
[02:16] <LinStatSDR> ke;;p
[02:16] <LinStatSDR> Hello* ...
[02:22] <thumper> o/
[02:31] <LinStatSDR> Hi :)
[04:20] <wallyworld_> thumper: where's this mega branch?
[04:35] <menn0> axw, wallyworld_: why does State.AddCharm() not use transactions?
[04:35] <wallyworld_> not sure off hand, i'll look at code
[04:36] <menn0> axw, wallyworld_: it's the one of the few (only?) place that uses Insert in state
[04:36] <menn0> axw, wallyworld_: and it seems like using a transaction would make it simpler and avoids a tiny race
[04:37] <wallyworld_> menn0: at first look i have to agree. i suspect that code dates way back to the early days of the Go port
[04:37] <wallyworld_> i think roger could shed more light on the reasoning there
[04:38] <menn0> wallyworld_: np. I'll check with him. it just stuck out with some of the work i'm doing.
[04:38] <wallyworld_> for sure, i can see why
[04:38] <wallyworld_> i suspect hysterical reasons but would be curious to know
[04:39] <axw> I also don't know why
[05:11] <axw> fwereade_: FYI, http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/522/
[07:30] <wallyworld_> fwereade_: ping
[07:30] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, morning
[07:30] <wallyworld_> hey, morning to you
[07:30] <wallyworld_> question
[07:31] <wallyworld_> we currently store status in a separate status doc, with _id set to the global machine or unit key
[07:31] <wallyworld_> if we now store status for unit agent as well
[07:31] <wallyworld_> we'll need a global key of sorts for that
[07:32] <wallyworld_> so do you think a prefex of "ua#" would work?
[07:32] <wallyworld_> also service will get status in there too
[07:32] <dimitern> jam, morning
[07:32] <dimitern> jam, 1:1?
[07:32] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, thinking
[07:32] <wallyworld_> but there's already a global key for service
[07:33] <jam> yeah, dimitern, brt
[07:33] <wallyworld_> we also currently have a big hidge podge of status "enums" shared across entities
[07:34] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, yeah, we should separate those enums out
[07:34] <wallyworld_> what's there could remain as machine status
[07:34] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, not everything there applies to machines iirc
[07:34] <wallyworld_> and new ones (sharing some of the same string values) used for units
[07:35] <wallyworld_> right, will have to break them up
[07:35] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, so globalKey-style is fine by me
[07:35] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, ua# feels ratherwrong though
[07:35] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, (1) the existing one is really the agent state already, remember
[07:36] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, (2) "a" implying agent is going to be misleading as soon as we manage to consolidate the agents
[07:36] <wallyworld_> yeah true
[07:36] <wallyworld_> for (2) we need a migration anyway
[07:36] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, suffix of #charm, or #runtime, or something?
[07:36] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, well
[07:36] <wallyworld_> could retain u# for agent status for now
[07:37] <wallyworld_> so you mean u#3#charm
[07:37] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, u#foo/3#charm, yeah
[07:37] <wallyworld_> right
[07:37] <wallyworld_> can do that
[07:37] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, don't forget that even if they're all in one process the "agent state" is still going to be meaningful
[07:38] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, just increasingly inaccurately named, because it's more like worker state
[07:38] <wallyworld_> and will be shared for that machine across units
[07:38] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, surely not
[07:38] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, it is and pretty much always has been uniter state
[07:38] <wallyworld_> for some things it will, like allocating etc
[07:40] <wallyworld_> i've just starting digging so i'll keep going, thank for clarification on using global key concept
[07:40] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, still don't think so? I'm quite inclined to have the uniter stay the only thing responsible for setting its own "agent" state
[07:40] <wallyworld_> a lot of the code i'm reading is quite new to me; uniter is something i've managed to avoid in detail till now
[07:41] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, lucky you
[07:41] <wallyworld_> \o/
[07:41] <fwereade_> ;p
[07:41] <wallyworld_> i did like the wip branch i looked at last week
[07:41] <wallyworld_> to separate out operations i think from memory
[07:41] <fwereade_> cool
[07:42] <wallyworld_> i just want it all to be done NOW
[07:42] <wallyworld_> :-)
[07:42] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, I didn't get the time to hack on that I hoped for this w/e
[07:42] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, *but* well honestly I *could* land it now and we'd still be better off than we were -- however I feel obliged to test the damn thing properly, and I kept getting distracted late last week and never built up the momentum
[07:43] <wallyworld_> if what you have is incrementally better, and works, and is tested, i'd be inclided to land
[07:43] <wallyworld_> so it doesn't bit rot etc
[07:43] <wallyworld_> we've branched 1.21 now
[07:43] <wallyworld_> so 1.22 is aways off
[07:43] <wallyworld_> deliver early and often and all that
[07:46] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, so the trouble is that it's tested as well as it was before
[07:47] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, the new structure makes it clear just how shitty that was
[07:47] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, and I've been adding tests in the wrong order so I don't have many useful incremental pieces :/
[07:47] <wallyworld_> fwereade_: if it compiles, it works right :-D
[07:47] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, it passes the uniter_test tests too
[07:48] <wallyworld_> i'd be inclined to get what you have landable before doing any more
[07:48] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, with just one non-error-message-string change, which I think is a good one anyway, because we're now properly triggering an observer we always should have
[07:48] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, yeah, I am actively avoiding *changes*
[07:48] <wallyworld_> good :-)
[07:49]  * fwereade_ is very tempted to make today an "I'm not here, I'm working" day
[07:49] <wallyworld_> use what you have, that sounds like it's at least got equivalent tests to what's there, as a great basis for launching the next phase
[07:49] <wallyworld_> go dark and make it happen :-)
[07:53] <fwereade_> wallyworld_, yeah, sounds good
[07:53] <wallyworld_> \o/
[08:03] <axw> fuuuuuuuuu
[08:04] <axw> wallyworld_: I just realised that my intention to use UUID on top-level devices as an identifier will break horribly if a charm requests a raw device and creates a new filesystem on it...
[08:04]  * axw sighs heavily
[08:04]  * wallyworld_ sighs too
[08:04] <axw> I think that means we have to partition devices and only dish out the partitions
[08:05] <axw> maybe only if it doesn't have a serial number
[08:07] <wallyworld_> needs a little thought for sure
[08:09] <wallyworld_> axw: what devices wouldn't have a serial number?
[08:10] <axw> wallyworld_: non-physical ones
[08:10] <wallyworld_> that i did not know
[08:11] <axw> wallyworld_: for example, on EC2 none of the disks have a serial number because Xen
[08:11] <axw> there the block device name is persistent though
[08:12] <wallyworld_> maybe that's as good as and we just abstract a device unique identifier
[08:14] <axw> wallyworld_: problem is MAAS, where there's not necessarily a guarantee that the disk has a serial. i.e. if/when there's support for non-physically attached disks
[08:14] <axw> hence why I asked for UUID and not serial
[08:14] <axw> *if* there's a serial we'll populate it when we see it in the machine agent
[08:16] <wallyworld_> hmmm. hopefully for even non physically attached disks there's some concept a uuid/serial/something_else_unique
[08:38] <TheMue> morning
[09:55] <voidspace> jam: dimitern: TheMue: grabbing coffee will be 2mins late to standup - sorry!
[09:56] <dimitern> voidspace, no worries
[09:59] <voidspace> back, just in time
[10:00] <mattyw> morning all
[10:00] <mattyw> dimitern, do you  have a link to the design document about how the new juju commands will look?
[10:00] <mattyw> dimitern, (also, morning)
[10:01] <jam> voidspace: you inspired me to do the same
[10:01] <jam> TheMue: standup ?
[10:01] <TheMue> omw
[10:01] <dimitern> mattyw, morning :)
[10:02] <dimitern> mattyw, not off hand, but I'll try to find it
[10:15] <dimitern> mattyw, I can't find it unfortunately
[10:15] <mattyw> dimitern, I'll keep looking, do you know who was supposed to be working on it?
[10:16] <dimitern> mattyw, either onyx or tanzanite IIRC
[10:48] <voidspace> dimitern: finished 1-to-1, going for moar coffeez and then I'd love to chat
[10:51] <dimitern> voidspace, ok
[12:12] <voidspace> dimitern: does subnetDoc need an annotator?
[12:20] <dimitern> voidspace, I don't think so - we can add it later I think, if we need to manage subnets via the gui
[12:23] <voidspace> dimitern: cool, thanks
[13:46] <sinzui> dimitern, jam do you have a moment to review https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1214
[13:54] <dimitern> sinzui, looking
[14:27] <sinzui> dimitern, sorry, I set master as the merge target in that PR. I closed it
[14:29] <sinzui> dimitern, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1215 is to change the version of the 1.21 branch
[14:33] <dimitern> sinzui, ah, ok -that looks better :)
[14:33] <dimitern> sinzui, 1 typo, otherwise lgtm
[14:34] <sinzui> dimitern, oops. making a change before my first cup of coffee seems impossible
[14:34] <dimitern> :)
[14:35] <sinzui> fix is push dimitern
[14:59] <dimitern> sinzui, thanks - good to merge
[15:09] <wwitzel3> fwereade_: ping :)
[15:13] <natefinch> perrito666, wwitzel3: man you guys are late to standup ;)
[16:03] <alexisb> fwereade_, I am going to log on the hangout with FF one sec
[17:10] <natefinch> man, utopic has been hell on my browser.  Fine in every other way... but you know, the browser is pretty important
[17:19] <ericsnow> could someone have a look at http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/526
[17:19] <ericsnow> it's a one-liner that clears the current CI blocker
[17:21] <natefinch> ericsnow: looking
[17:21] <ericsnow> natefinch: thanks
[17:22] <ericsnow> the joy of having CI-only tests!
[17:23] <natefinch> ericsnow: ship it!
[17:23] <ericsnow> natefinch: thanks
[17:24] <LinStatSDR> Hello all.
[17:26] <natefinch> good afternoon
[17:27] <ericsnow> fwereade_: ping
[17:59] <ericsnow> sorry for the pain of 1395331, folks
[17:59] <ericsnow> the fix is in but the CI tests have to cycle through now
[17:59] <jw4> ericsnow: :)  no worries tx
[18:00] <jw4> do we need to wait for something before the CI gets opened again?  The query on launchpad for critical bugs is returning 0 again, but CI is still rejecting
[18:00]  * jw4 feels so rejected
[18:01] <ericsnow> I don't recall if CI automatically unblocks once certain tests pass or if it requires manual intervention
[18:02] <ericsnow> my vague recollection is of the former being the case, but mgz & co. would know
[18:03] <jw4> wallyworld, sinzui who should I ask about when/how CI would be unblocked?
[18:05] <ericsnow> natefinch: was "Add juju-provider-zone to relation data" the task you recommended to me the other day?
[18:06] <sinzui> natefinch, ericsnow, jw4 We need to steal juju-ci to do reliability testing. I don't know when I can enable testing, or at least say the regression is fix released
[18:06] <natefinch> sinzui: this seems problematic if it means we can't land any code
[18:07] <ericsnow> sinzui: the failure is limited to the backup-restore tests (which exercise the plugins)
[18:07] <natefinch> jw4: I believe the answer in general is "once the CI tests that failed pass again, then the bug that was blocking CI is marked fix released, and *then* CI is officially unblocked"
[18:08] <jw4> natefinch: I see - I was just querying launchpad for when there were 0 critical issues
[18:08] <ericsnow> sinzui, natefinch: if it makes it so we can simply unblock, I'd be glad to revert PR 1003
[18:09] <ericsnow> natefinch: ah, right, "fix released" is the trigger for unblocking CI
[18:09] <natefinch> yep
[18:09] <sinzui> ericsnow, no don't
[18:09] <ericsnow> sinzui: k
[18:11] <sinzui> ericsnow, jw4, natefinch : I marked the bug as fix released, but it is untested. you are free to merge. Revision testing will resume when reliability testing comp;lete
[18:11] <jw4> thanks sinzui
[18:13] <ericsnow> natefinch, sinzui: if restore supported local provider (which is currently *not* adviseable) then the CI backup-restore tests could be replaced with functional tests in the core suite, and this sort of situation (an undetected breakage of the backup CLI plugin) would be avoidable in the future
[18:14] <ericsnow> natefinch, sinzui: however that would require the "proper" local provider that we never seem to allocate time for writing
[18:14] <ericsnow> sinzui: thanks for unblocking that!
[18:17] <sinzui> ericsnow, The restore tests often fail because of  juju timing issues and substrate api/network issues. I think we will always need a restore test in clouds to verify real world situations. Though it would be nice to not need to run the test with every revision
[18:17] <ericsnow> sinzui: good point
[18:18] <ericsnow> sinzui: both are needed then
[18:20] <ericsnow> natefinch: about "Add juju-provider-zone to relation data", was that the one?
[18:28] <natefinch> ericsnow: that one and adding zone to the unit-get hook
[18:28] <ericsnow> natefinch: k
[18:28] <ericsnow> natefinch: I'm adding task cards to leankit for some of the tasks
[18:29] <natefinch> ericsnow: cool
[18:31] <natefinch> ericsnow: feel free to adjust the estimates if you think they need adjusting.  They're listed in ideal developer days, so like, if you  got to code for 8 hours straight with no interruptions... I usually then double that for real-world workdays
[18:31] <ericsnow> natefinch: :)
[18:31] <natefinch> ericsnow: I suggest not reducing the estimates even if you think it'll be faster, though.  We can always use the padding to make up for bad estimates elsewhere
[18:32] <ericsnow> natefinch: definitely
[18:39] <voidspace> g'night all
[18:56] <katco> hey does anyone have an ssh server you recommend for windows? a friend wants to run one on (i think) win7
[18:58] <ericsnow> katco: I always ending up simply using cygwin
[18:59] <ericsnow> ("simply")
[18:59] <katco> ericsnow: yeah same here, but that may be too complicated for him
[19:00] <natefinch> it's so sad that this is actually a question that has to be asked
[19:00] <katco> i know... no clue why windows doesn't support ssh these days
[19:01] <katco> of course windows admins used to look at me funny when i asked how to get a command prompt remotely
[19:01] <natefinch> FWIW I think Cygwin is the work of the devil and would not recommend it to anyone I want to still like me in 6 months.
[19:01] <katco> lol it was a god-send when i was trapped on windows @ work
[19:01] <katco> i would get a bash prompt and sign in relief :)
[19:02] <katco> grep, less, find! all my friends are here!
[19:02] <natefinch> I used it for 7 years at my last job... at least once every 6 months I would have to totally reinstall it because it would randomly f-up if I tried to update something
[19:02] <katco> wow really?
[19:02] <katco> i never had a problem
[19:02] <katco> used it probably for... 5 years?
[19:03] <natefinch> I don't know how often I had to do the POS rebaseall thing, which would work like 1/3rd of the time
[19:03] <katco> lol
[19:04] <natefinch> and it doesn't help that it defaults to updating EVERYTHING when you run it to update just one thing, which ends up being this massive download that only has a small chance of succeeding.
[19:04] <natefinch> ....I'm not bitter
[19:05] <katco> haha
[19:05] <natefinch> oh yeah, the kicker is that we were using cygwin to support our build infrastructure..... which built a .Net application and a Java application.  (Yes, both would have built just fine on Windows without cygwin).
[19:05] <katco> i really never had any problems with it
[19:06] <jw4> natefinch: was msys a viable alternative to cygwin in your situation?
[19:06] <natefinch> The only thing we actually needed cygwin for was to build RPMs for the java server part (sorry to say we deployed the server to CentOS)
[19:07] <natefinch> jw4: I have no idea.  I tried to have as little to do with cygwin as possible.
[19:07] <jw4> natefinch: yeah - I never really enjoyed cygwin, but msys usually seemed to meet my needs when on windows
[19:08] <katco> my stress level has gone down so much now that i get to work in ubuntu all day :)
[19:08] <katco> it's just cozy.
[19:09] <jw4> katco: lol
[19:10] <jw4> I cut my programming teeth in cross-platform unix
[19:10] <jw4> but have been mostly doing .NET for the last decade
[19:10] <katco> i have much the same story
[19:10] <katco> i always used some form of *nix, and then got a job at a .NET shop
[19:10] <jw4> when powershell came out it was like the hallelujah chorus
[19:10] <katco> liked the language, disliked the platform.
[19:10] <katco> (C#)
[19:11] <jw4> yeah, I'd like to play more with F# too
[19:11] <katco> more-so because anything that _wasn't_ microsoft was some odd duck that we couldn't risk using (e.g. sqlite3, angular, jquery... etc.)
[19:16] <natefinch> heh.  My company was a startup with a Java server on CentOS and big .Net desktop client.  Can't tell you how often we had customers ask if Postgres was a reliable DB, and why we weren't using SQL Server.
[19:17] <jw4> nice
[19:17] <natefinch> We got acquired by a big company that was 100% microsoft services, so when we started The Big Rewrite (because isn't there always one?) we were basically forced into a .Net webserver w/ SQLServer
[19:18] <natefinch> We at least were able to convince them that the server could use a REST API and not SOAP
[19:18] <jw4> *whew*
[19:18] <jw4> SOAP just needs to die
[19:18] <natefinch> "But you can just generate client code from the WSDL...."
[19:19] <natefinch> AAHHHHH
[19:19] <jw4> haha
[19:20] <natefinch> At the time I was trying to push for it to be a single page web app using Angular or something similar, but that was too... modern... for them, so it ended up being all server-side rendering & jquery (oh except for the data for some graphs that would then get downloaded asynchronously for some reason).
[19:21] <jw4> lol - did you get to use ASP.NET MVC at least?
[19:22] <natefinch> yes?  IIRC... and Entity Framework, which was a huge pain in the butt and cemented my "ORMs are evil" beliefs
[19:22] <jw4> EF has come a long way, but still can't overcome the fundamental impedance mismatch between relational data and object data
[19:25] <natefinch> and this was the optimal case where we're rebuilding from scratch, but have 100% perfect knowledge of the data domain and how we're going to store it... it's just that if you don't structure your data & tables perfectly, then things just don't work with very little feedback about why.  And forget trying to do anything fancy, like storing data blobs...
[20:26] <alexisb> natefinch, I am going to be a little late
[20:27] <natefinch> alexisb: ok
[20:27] <natefinch> alexisb: np
[20:39] <alexisb> natefinch, ok on and ready when you are
[20:40] <thumper> ick...
[20:40] <natefinch> alexisb: coming
[20:54] <bogdanteleaga> anyone has an idea why separating runnings tests with check.f=foo doesn't work if the bar_test.go file doesn't have a bar.go counterpart?
[20:55] <bogdanteleaga> or what other reasons there might be for it not working
[20:56] <thumper> bogdanteleaga: I think we need a little more context
[20:56] <thumper> bogdanteleaga: got your test file handy to pastebin?
[20:57] <bogdanteleaga> for example bench_test in core/state
[20:57] <bogdanteleaga> if I do check.f=BenchmarkSuite it says OK:0 passed
[20:59] <thumper> bogdanteleaga: probably because the BenchmarkSuite is for benchmarking not testing?
[21:00] <bogdanteleaga> thumper: conn_test does the same thing
[21:00] <bogdanteleaga> thumper: and they were the only ones I've tried so far and they didn't have normal.go counterparts
[21:00] <thumper> gocheck.f ?
[21:00] <bogdanteleaga> thumper: but assign seems to work
[21:00] <bogdanteleaga> yes
[21:00] <thumper> you said `check.f`
[21:00] <natefinch> I think both work now... remember gocheck is now "check"
[21:01] <thumper> the filename has no impact
[21:01] <thumper> natefinch: really?
[21:01] <thumper> oh
[21:01] <bogdanteleaga> yeah, I've tried both
[21:01] <bogdanteleaga> gocheck seemed to work until I hit that problem
[21:01] <bogdanteleaga> then I tried check and that didn't work either
[21:04] <thumper> mramm2: call time
[21:04] <thumper> ?
[22:34] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/testing/pull/40 anyone?
[22:46] <fwereade_> thumper, LGTM
[22:46] <fwereade_> thumper, feeling brave? I think you'll hate me but you'll like it in the end: reviews.vapour.ws/r/527/diff/
[22:47] <fwereade_> thumper, there are two files of tests that are just repeated `c.Fatalf("XXX")`, I wanted to finish those today but I'm too tired
[22:48] <fwereade_> thumper, still I don't expect non-trivial non-test changes and I want to get some less-casual eyes on it
[22:52] <katco> wallyworld: guess what is defined in a main package and is not exportable at the moment =|
[23:05] <wallyworld> katco: ummm, not sure?
[23:05] <katco> wallyworld: MachineAgent
[23:06] <wallyworld> \o/
[23:06] <katco> :)
[23:06] <wallyworld> the stuff in main should be thin anyway
[23:07] <wallyworld> so maybe a chance to refactor to fix it
[23:07] <katco> yeah i'll have to
[23:07] <wallyworld> luck you
[23:07] <katco> it's a good change anyhow... glad you suggested landing this separately
[23:08] <katco> and by suggested, i mean "commanded atop your iron throne of management"
[23:33] <wallyworld> katco: just saw this last comment as i was helping someone elsewhere
[23:33] <wallyworld> :-(
[23:33] <katco> it's ok, i understand you have a manager's schedule.
[23:33]  * katco pokes the open wound
[23:33] <wallyworld> :-( :-( :-(
[23:33]  * katco now feels bad
[23:33] <wallyworld> good
[23:33] <katco> haha


[14:55] <smoser> Odd_Bloke, ping
[14:55] <smoser> i see Mar 10 14:53:55 ubuntu [CLOUDINIT] util.py[DEBUG]: failed read of /sys/class/dmi/id/product_name#012Traceback (most recent call last):#012  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/cloudinit/util.py", line 2143, in _read_dmi_syspath#012    key_data = load_file(dmi_key_path)#012  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/cloudinit/util.py", line 1187, in load_file#012    return decode_binary(contents)#012  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-pac
[14:55] <smoser> kages/cloudinit/util.py", line 88, in decode_binary#012    return blob.decode(encoding)#012UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xff in position 0: invalid start byte
[14:55] <smoser> on my system
[14:55] <smoser> because /sys/class/dmi/id/product_name has non-utf-8 stuff in it.
[14:56] <smoser> what should we do there?
[14:56] <smoser>  xxd /sys/class/dmi/id/product_name
[14:56] <smoser> 00000000: ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff  ................
[14:56] <smoser> 00000010: ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff  ................
[14:56] <smoser> 00000020: ff0a                                     ..
[14:57] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: AIUI, that means that it's possible to set that DMI value, but it isn't set to anything.
[14:58] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: (Whereas all 0s means that it can't be set)
[14:58] <smoser> oh, interesting.
[14:58] <smoser> but what if i set it to all zeros :)
[14:58] <smoser> then it cant be set
[14:59] <Odd_Bloke> Well, I don't know if _you_ can set it at all, it might all be set in stone after early boot stuff.
[14:59] <smoser> but generally, what should we do about the possibility / reality of non-utf8 in dmi data.
[15:00] <Odd_Bloke> Well, this is a known special-case (which we should handle).
[15:00] <Odd_Bloke> Would we expect to get non-UTF8 DMI data on a system which wasn't physically broken?
[15:01] <smoser> i dont know.
[15:01] <smoser> do you?
[15:02] <smoser> i suspect the answer is at least "sometimes stuff is broken"
[15:02] <smoser> and cloud-init shouldnt fall over on that.
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> I don't know, no.
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah.
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> I think we only call that in two places ATM.
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> If we get non-UTF8 data, then we aren't on Azure (or Azure is horribly broken).
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> So returning None there would be fine.
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> I can't call the other place to mind off the top of my head.
[15:04] <Odd_Bloke> But I suspect garbage can safely be reported as "no value", until we find an example when that isn't true.
[17:29] <smoser> Odd_Bloke, https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/trunk.dmidecode-null/+merge/288676
[17:29] <smoser> if you can find referencen to '\x00' then i'd happily return some value for that too (ideally whatever dmidecode would do)
[17:29] <rharper> smoser: your MP has merge markers
[17:30] <smoser> fiddle
[17:33] <smoser> i push-overwrited
[17:33] <smoser> as i actually had also pushed unintended chagnes
[17:33] <smoser> :)
[17:33] <smoser> but merge markers in Changelog i dont care too much about.
[17:34] <rharper> sure
[17:35] <rharper> smoser: but the MP shows changes to unrelated stuff IIUC, the cloud-init generator for example has nothing to do with the dmidecode, no?
[17:36] <smoser> no longer
[17:36]  * rharper refresh
[17:36] <smoser> i pushe --overwrited with those removed
[17:37] <smoser> rharper, so for network rendering
[17:37] <smoser> looking at curtin/net/network_state.py seems pretty much a howto
[17:37] <rharper> yes
[17:38] <smoser> and i answered my own question now
[17:38] <smoser> render_network_state
[17:38] <smoser> is what i want
[17:38] <rharper> and then consuming/using networkstate is documented in curtin/commands/apply_net.py (which uses curtin/net/__init__.py:render_eni
[17:38] <rharper> yes
[17:38] <rharper> render_network_state
[17:38] <rharper> and optionally the udev rule writer
[17:39] <smoser> render_network_state renders persistent net
[17:42] <rharper> right
[17:42] <rharper> you;'re looking at the code
[21:46] <smoser> rharper, https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/trunk.net1 is with curtin/net copied over.
[21:46] <smoser> id' hope to have that used via nocloud datasource by morning.
[22:01] <rharper> smoser: nice! I'll pickup that branch and migrate cloud-init-tests to use that instead of my curtin apply_net hack
[22:03] <smoser> lets talk tomorrow morning
[22:03] <smoser> i have to go afk now. will be back later.
[22:13] <rharper> ok


[00:20] <sizz> i've just installed a call of duty 2 demo which i'm playing via wine. everything seems fine except there's no sound. does anyone know what the best sound setup is for wine under kubuntu?
[00:32] <sizz> okay.. 'pulseaudio -k' fixes it. sound working now!
[00:33] <lorecaster> no one in #ubuntu is even responding to me, let alone helping. I managed to blow away all of my settings for speakers while trying to config my BLUE SNOWBALL microphone. not a UI issue.
[00:33] <lorecaster> any takers?
[00:35] <DarthFrog> lorecaster: It's not that you're being ignored (though it seems like it).  Rather it's because no-one has the help for which you're asking.
[00:36] <lorecaster> same difference from my perspective :P though I completely understand. It sounded more pityful the way i phrased it, though.
[00:36] <lorecaster> can't blame a guy for trying, Darthfrog.
[00:37] <DarthFrog> Oh, no-one's blaming you for anything.  Both channels are for support and you are expected/encouraged to ask questions.
[00:37] <DarthFrog> But generally no-one pipes up unless s/he has something positive to contribute.
[00:38] <lorecaster> oh, no worries. I'm no stranger here.  :P
[01:08] <ubuntu> Hello.
[01:11] <ubuntu> Hello???
[01:12] <ubuntu> Is my chat client working???
[01:15] <ubuntu> I need help with installing Adobe Flash.  Which one do I choose ---> YUM for Linux, APT for Ubuntu 10.04+???
[01:56] <eodchop> I recently bought a car that has a Mark Levinson stereo. It has the ability to play dvd audio discs.  I tried burning a dvd disc by making a data disc. It wouldnt play.
[02:01] <chuck_> Hello, audio works for in 11.10 from a fresh install, but stopped working after I upgraded to the latest updates
[02:01] <DasKreech> eodchop: DVD audio is not DVD Data
[02:02] <eodchop> Ok.
[02:02] <chuck_> its a intel audio card
[02:02] <chuck_> onboard
[02:04] <DasKreech> eodchop: I think Brasero can do DVD Audio
[02:05] <DasKreech> chuck_: check your phonon settings? Might be pointing at the wrong device
[02:05] <chuck_> DasKreech: Already have
[02:05] <eodchop> DasKreech: Thanks. I will grab it and check it out
[02:16]  * chuck_ cries... I just wanna hear music :(
[02:21] <DasKreech> chuck_: What happens when you do a audio test?
[02:21] <chuck_> DasKreech: I get no audio
[02:22] <DasKreech> chuck_: what are the options it has for your soundcard?
[02:23] <chuck_> in the audio hardware setup?
[02:25] <chuck_> hmmm
[02:25] <chuck_> well the front headphone port works
[02:25] <chuck_> it looks like it doesn't switch to the rear port when the headphones are unplugged
[02:26] <chuck_> actually, if I plug it in half way, it switches to the rear
[02:26] <chuck_> but fully out, or fully in it says "analog headphones" instead of "analog output"
[02:34] <chuck_> DasKreech: well the problem seems to have fixed it self... for now
[02:34] <chuck_> DasKreech: AND... its back :(
[02:36] <chuck_> its like something is forcing analog headphones as the default device
[02:40] <DasKreech> chuck_: ugh. Sounds like a pulseaudio thing
[02:40]  * DasKreech isn't that hip with the pulseaudio/alsa crossover oint
[03:15] <artao> hai: i'm having a cursor-redraw issue on my secondary monitor -- i.e. it's a white square .. it's fine on the primary and works fine on the secondary. .. just not drawing right ... .... goes away if i log out and back in .. not sure why it happens, it just does sometimes .... .... is there a way i can just 're-start' the display to make that go away without logging out and back in?
[03:29] <tintoy> hi everyone, can anyone help me  how to rsync to a remote server using different por
[03:29] <tintoy> hi everyone, can anyone help me  how to rsync to a remote server using different port
[03:30] <DarthFrog> tintoy:   rsync -avvPe "ssh -p <port #> .... "
[03:31] <DarthFrog> Oops, make that:   rsync -avvPe "ssh -p <port #>" ....
[03:31] <tintoy> DarthFrog:this is my case, I want to pull somefiles from a remote server using port 2300
[03:32] <DarthFrog> tintoy:   rsync -avvPe "ssh -p 2300"
[03:36] <tintoy> DartFrog: rsync -av rsync://root@www.trendy.org:2300/var/www/inv2010/* /var/www/main/
[03:36] <DarthFrog> Does that work?
[03:36] <tintoy> DarthFrog:is this correct?
[03:36] <tintoy> DarthFrog: rsync -av rsync://root@www.trendy.org:2300/var/www/inv2010/* /var/www/main/
[03:37] <DarthFrog> I shouldn't think so.
[03:37] <tintoy> DarthFrog: rsync: server sent "SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.8p1 Debian-7ubuntu1" rather than greeting
[03:37] <tintoy> rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1524) [Receiver=3.0.7]
[03:37] <tintoy> DarthFrog: I have received that error after applying that command, and I think I got wrong
[03:37] <DarthFrog> rsync -ave "ssh -p 2300"  user@remotehost:/directory/file <local directory>
[03:39] <tintoy> DarthFrog:can you give correct example based on this command:
[03:39] <DarthFrog> tintoy: Public support benefits everyone, private support only helps one.
[03:39] <tintoy> DarthFrog:rsync -av rsync://root@www.trendy.org:2300/var/www/inv2010/* /var/www/main/
[03:40] <tintoy> DarthFrog:Thanks for giving that concept. I really promotes opensource. so nice!
[03:40] <DarthFrog> rsync -avvPe "ssh -p 2300" root@www.trendy.org:/var/www/inv2010/  /var/www/main/
[03:40] <tintoy> DarthFrog: I'll try it
[03:41] <DarthFrog> That should grab all files in /var/www/inv2010/ and put them in local /var/www/main.
[03:42] <tintoy> DarthFrog: You're so nice! Really great help!! it really works!!!
[03:42] <DarthFrog> You're welcome.
[03:42] <DarthFrog> Though it shouldn't, really.  Allowing root logins is bad form.
[03:42] <tintoy> DarthFrog::)
[03:42] <DarthFrog> Unless you have PKI authentication.
[03:43] <tintoy> DarthFrog: Why allowing root logins is bad form?
[03:43] <DarthFrog> Massive security risk.
[03:44] <DarthFrog> Though using SSH-agent and PKI authentication ameliorates the risk immensely.
[03:45] <tintoy> DarthFrog: what is ameliorates?
[03:45] <DarthFrog> In your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file, you should have "AllowRootLogins without-password".
[03:45] <DarthFrog> Lessens.
[03:45] <DarthFrog> decreases/
[03:45] <DarthFrog> reduces.
[03:47] <tintoy> DarthFrog:Thank you so much sir!
[03:48] <DarthFrog> Oops, actually it's not AllowRootLogins, it's "PermitRootLogin without-password".  That's a cut 'n paste from one of my servers.
[03:48] <tintoy> DarthFrog: No problem
[03:49] <DarthFrog> The "without-password" prevents a cracker from trying to get in by guessing the root password.  Even if s/he guesses it correctly, it won't work.  It demands PKI authentication.
[03:56] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: :)
[03:57] <DasKreech> DarthFrog: Massive Security risk is a bit overstating
[03:58] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: Did you get a way to restart the display?
[04:13] <brambleclaw> what is the teminal command to continue an inturupted install?
[04:14] <brambleclaw> pardon, terminal
[04:15] <brambleclaw> never mind i got it
[04:15] <brambleclaw> sudo dpkg --configure -a
[04:18] <DasKreech> sudo dpjg --configure -a
[04:18] <artao_beeblebrox> DasKreech: hai. .. sorry, no
[04:18] <artao_beeblebrox> aside from logging out/in
[04:19] <brambleclaw> huh?
[04:19] <DasKreech> xrefresh ?
[04:20] <brambleclaw> the command sudo dpkg --configure -a worked
[04:20] <brambleclaw> or is working
[04:22] <brambleclaw> i actually got the command from here the first time it happened
[04:23] <kdr> hi ppl
[04:23] <artao_beeblebrox> ok ... how do i get the proper host:dpy to enter?  xrandr shows my displays as DVI-0 and DVI-1
[04:24] <kdr> i have a question about lshw outputs
[04:24] <DasKreech> kdr: ok
[04:25] <kdr> all the clock frequencies are listed as 33 MHz
[04:25] <artao_beeblebrox> xrefresh -d DVI-1 gives me :: xrefresh:  unable to open display 'DVI-1'
[04:25] <kdr> for cpu, memory controller, pci, etc
[04:25] <kdr> sry, not cpu
[04:25] <artao_beeblebrox> err except i spelled it right
[04:26] <artao_beeblebrox> .. even with sudo appended
[04:26] <kdr> i'm pretty sure the ram is running at a higher frequency than that, but this isn't displayed anywhere
[04:26] <kdr> am i looking in the wrong place?
[04:26] <artao_beeblebrox> err ... pre-pended ...
[04:31] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: try xrandr to see what the readout is
[04:31] <DasKreech> kdr: It's probably run through a multipler?
[04:31] <artao_beeblebrox> 1 sec
[04:32] <artao_beeblebrox> here's the output :: http://paste.ubuntu.com/854967/
[04:34] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: try -display instead of -d
[04:34] <artao_beeblebrox> i also tried xrefresh -d Screen 0:DVI-1 ... but the space of course doesn't work
[04:34] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: if you want to do an arguement with a space enclose them in quotes
[04:35] <artao_beeblebrox> nope
[04:35] <artao_beeblebrox> yep, just tried xrefresh -display "Screen 0:DVI-1" and got the unable to open display
[04:36] <kdr> sorry, i'm really new to this & not sure what that means. the reason i'm trying to look at this is i want to buy new ram & match the frequency with current DIMMs
[04:37] <DasKreech> kdr: The frequency is written on the DIMS
[04:37] <DasKreech> You can usually eyeball them
[04:38] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: it's much more likely to be -display :0.1
[04:38] <kdr> ah ok, thanks!
[04:38] <kdr> bye for now! :)
[04:39] <artao_beeblebrox> nope. and i have now tried several variations on that as well
[04:40] <artao_beeblebrox> prolly just my crappy vid card, which i'll be replacing soon
[04:40] <artao_beeblebrox> fairly minor annoyance .. just have to log out and in
[04:40] <artao_beeblebrox> and did i read online that KDE is dropping altogether support for AMD-ATI cards?
[04:41] <artao_beeblebrox> or was that about Unity?
[04:43] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: Either wouldn't be true
[04:44] <artao_beeblebrox> internet rumors or imagination then ... or the universe changed on me without notification
[04:44] <DasKreech> What driver are you using?
[04:45] <artao_beeblebrox> what i can. umm .. gflrx or something i think?
[04:45] <artao_beeblebrox> i tried the catalyst drivers and that broke it broke it
[04:45] <artao_beeblebrox> my card is a mere x600
[04:46] <artao_beeblebrox> i plan on purchasing .. SOON .. a geforce gtx460 or gtx550 ..... maybe gtx560 TI if i can swing it
[04:46] <artao_beeblebrox> what sort of PITA is it to completely switch vid cards under linux these days?
[04:46] <DasKreech> flgrx
[04:47] <artao_beeblebrox> just shut down, switch cards, reboot, say ok a bunch of times, reboot, and it's all ok?
[04:47] <artao_beeblebrox> ys, thx. flgrx
[04:47] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: umm should just be a reboot
[04:47] <DasKreech> though you may want to spend some time futzing with new drivers depending on how fussy you are
[04:48] <artao_beeblebrox> semi-non-sequiter: years ago a buddy had linux on one machine in his network and we decided to just pull the OS hard drive and stick it in one of the windows machines
[04:48] <artao_beeblebrox> i think that took 3 reboots, but it ran fine in the end.
[04:49] <DasKreech> Yeah that sounds like early Linux 2.6 kernels
[04:49] <DasKreech> Probably before initrd
[04:49] <artao_beeblebrox> the whole first output of boot was a bunch of like: "HEY!! Waitaminit!! This isn't at ALL what you told me I'd be running on .... Hold on a second ... "
[04:49] <DasKreech> but should run fine :)
[04:49] <DasKreech> Yeah ^_^
[04:49] <artao_beeblebrox> it. amazed. us.
[04:50] <artao_beeblebrox> we tried the converse with the win .... 98? NT 4? ... OS drive and ... well ... no. just no.
[04:51] <DasKreech> Yeah that takes some forethought
[04:51] <DasKreech> probably installing things before
[04:51] <DasKreech> Windows is a lot more forgiving of video card changes now
[04:51] <artao_beeblebrox> win 7 or 8 would prolly fry yer computer for even trying
[04:51] <artao_beeblebrox> ;0
[04:51] <DasKreech> Try not changing the Mobo Chipset though it will explode
[04:52] <DasKreech> And not even from the Drivers. It will think that you are bypassing the license and get really huffy
[04:52] <artao_beeblebrox> well. i know in xp i have to uninstall the vid card. swap cards. reboot. install new drivers. reboot
[04:53] <DasKreech> Or install the new drivers first
[04:53] <DasKreech> but that gets messier
[04:53] <artao_beeblebrox> i've always had problems doing that under xp ... no experience beyond that
[04:53] <DasKreech> dropping back to basic PCI drivers is cleaner
[04:53] <artao_beeblebrox> even rebooting into admin/safe mode to do the whole process
[04:54] <artao_beeblebrox> especially when completely switching brand/chipset
[04:54] <artao_beeblebrox> i've always gone ati in the past ... but i kinda need the CUDA tech for 3d graphics
[04:54] <DasKreech> \o/
[04:55] <artao_beeblebrox> openCL looks cool, but isn't very mature or supported yet ... and i'm lookin for a card NOW heh
[04:55] <artao_beeblebrox> i can't WAIT to be able to do 90 minute cpu renders in under 10 minutes on gpu
[04:57] <artao_beeblebrox> ... i'm even considering adding a 3rd head to the system ... as the mobo HAS an onboard vga display port as well .. and i a spare crt
[04:57] <artao_beeblebrox> would be nice with ... say .. Flight Gear
[04:57] <artao_beeblebrox> or racing games
[04:58] <artao_beeblebrox> how is linux with assigning multiple displays thru multiple video cards but keeping them all as the "same display" as it were
[04:59] <artao_beeblebrox> i have noticed windows is much more ... elegant ... in regards to multi-heading ... .. ... altho perhaps, perhaps! .. not as .. flexible
[05:00] <artao_beeblebrox> ... if it weren't snowing, i might go hunt galaxies ..
[05:01] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: depends highly on your driver
[05:03] <artao_beeblebrox> i c
[05:03] <artao_beeblebrox> well. i know the geforce i end up with will be rather recent. not bleeding edge, but recent. so no prob with the dual head
[05:04] <artao_beeblebrox> adding in the MB svga out tho ...
[05:04] <artao_beeblebrox> not even sure what it is .. intel something? maybe?
[05:05] <artao_beeblebrox> this machine is a craigslist purchase .. gift from my parents ... not quite what i'da bout, but better than my other machine
[05:06] <artao_beeblebrox> pimpin 'er as much as i can whilst fantasizing about what i WANT to build
[05:07] <artao_beeblebrox> i. want. octacore. .. at least 16G ram. SLI vid cards. terrabyte raid. 2 to 4 displays
[05:07] <artao_beeblebrox> ahh to dream. to dream to sleep ....
[05:07] <artao_beeblebrox> !fortune
[05:07] <DasKreech> :-)
[05:08] <artao_beeblebrox> AHHH  .!! ... fortune isn't installed on my machine either!!   how could they!!
[05:08] <DasKreech> I'd probably tell you to hang oout in #phoronix but the hardware snob wars in there can't be healthy
[05:08] <DasKreech> !info fortune
[05:08] <DasKreech> oh my
[05:08] <DasKreech> !search fortune
[05:08] <DasKreech> 1find fortune
[05:09] <DasKreech> !find fortune
[05:09] <DasKreech> !info fortunes-ubuntu-server
[05:09] <DasKreech> !info fortunes
[05:09] <artao_beeblebrox> THERE!!   'sudo apt-get install fortune' .. wait .. yes ... wait .. DUNZ
[05:09] <DasKreech> Ah cooo :)
[05:09] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: Missing an s
[05:10] <artao_beeblebrox> an 's' ??
[05:10] <artao_beeblebrox> missed me, sry
[05:10] <artao_beeblebrox> what is #phoronix ??
[05:11] <artao_beeblebrox> i kow i'm being a bit chatty for a channel such as this .. sry
[05:11] <artao_beeblebrox> i wouldn't do so if it were more active =]
[05:11] <artao_beeblebrox> my other channels are pretty dead too
[05:12] <DasKreech> artao_beeblebrox: #phoronix is an IRC channel
[05:12] <artao_beeblebrox> i tend to avoid the 'crowded' ones as they can be overwhelming at times
[05:12] <DasKreech> sudo apt-get install fortunes
[05:12] <artao_beeblebrox> i know that :P  ... the topic/theme/etc of #phoronix?  the name gives no hints to me
[05:13] <joshwines> artao_beeblebrox: http://www.phoronix.com/
[05:13] <artao_beeblebrox> well, search #join list for phoronix description
[05:14] <artao_beeblebrox> AHHHH!!! HUGE ADVERTISEMENT!!
[05:15] <artao_beeblebrox> i c ... discuss latest linux hardware software news, plus test suite
[05:15] <DasKreech> :-)
[05:15] <artao_beeblebrox> =]
[05:15] <artao_beeblebrox> at leat the ad didn't have audio
[05:15] <DasKreech> It's a pretty detailed hardware site from the point of view of a linux user
[05:15] <artao_beeblebrox> i hate those
[05:15] <DasKreech> BUUUYYMEEEEEEEE
[05:15] <artao_beeblebrox> pop up ... SOMEHOW. .. past everything .. in the background
[05:16] <artao_beeblebrox> yer 30 seconds or more into whatever you WANT to watch, when this LOUDER ad comes on and yer like WTF!!!
[05:16] <artao_beeblebrox> i have added it to my 'view now and then and check for info' list
[05:16] <artao_beeblebrox> thx =]
[05:17] <artao_beeblebrox> ok ... NO ... what else is on
[05:17] <artao_beeblebrox> i luvz me some good Frontline ... but am in NO mood for an investiation into .. suspicious .. child deaths
[05:18] <artao_beeblebrox> "shaken baby syndrome" indeed!!!!
[05:18] <artao_beeblebrox> == murdered by abuse
[05:19] <artao_beeblebrox> ...
[05:19]  * artao_beeblebrox shakes his head
[05:19] <artao_beeblebrox> maybe i need a 'crowd chat' room tonite
[05:19] <artao_beeblebrox> i'll stop bothering you =]
[05:20] <artao_beeblebrox> thx for the help tho!! i'm certain this is a case of crappy old vid card with barely supported drivers
[05:20] <artao_beeblebrox> i'm'a g'wan log on out 'n' back in to clear up my display then .. i give a hi/bye when successful
[05:23] <artao> back and all good
[05:23] <artao> thx again =]
[05:29] <DasKreech> ha ha :)
[05:29] <DasKreech> that didn't take long
[05:35] <artao> sure. minor pita, as i said .. but 3 min vs a couple seconds ..
[05:35] <DasKreech> Yeah I suppose
[05:36] <DasKreech>  and KDE remembers all the stuff you had open
[06:05] <Gonzalo> can anyone help me? i cant boot kubuntu, im stuck at a flashing blue screen and the a black one :/
[06:07] <DasKreech> Gonzalo: How far into the boot process?
[06:40] <jonah> hi can anyone please help, i've made a bit of a mess of my kubuntu system. I have a new ultrabook so it doesn't work great with the standard kernel for powersaving/trackpad/wifi etc so I installed an rc of 3.3.0 which works well. Problem is I tried to install Virtualbox and Vmware Player which haven't installed properly (must be because of the kernels not matching the vm stuff) so now my computer doesn't start or shutdown properly
[06:40] <jonah> without a load of errors. And package manager won't let me remove them... Can anyone please help as I have a presentation in 2 hours and would be nice if my computer booted up and down properly for work today. thanks for any help please :)
[06:40] <FloodBotK1> jonah: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[06:43] <jonah> sorry wasn't trying to flood, i just have a genuine problem
[06:43] <bazhang> jonah, rc of kernel?
[06:44] <jonah> bazhang: 3.3.0-030300rc4-generic
[06:45] <bazhang> jonah, and vbox from where? and what kernel headers?
[06:45] <jonah> bazhang: when i shutdown kubuntu can't close some services and vm stuff and hangs, then on boot up it comes up with grub asking which kernel i want to boot as the machine didn't shutdown properly. then on boot a few errors flash by too before the desktop starts up
[06:46] <jonah> bazhang: i just downloaded the 3 kernel files for ubuntu from the ppa mainline kernel repo. i didn't download any kernels or headers etc for vm and vbox - i just tried to install them from muon/apt
[06:46] <jonah> bazhang: i can see now in hindsight this was a silly thing to do...
[06:48] <bazhang> jonah, well what is the presentation involve
[06:48] <bazhang> err does
[06:48] <jonah> bazhang: the presentation doesn't need either, i just need to get the computer stable and remove whatever vbox and vmware have attached so everything works ok again
[06:49] <DasKreech> can't you just choose your old kernel at boot?
[06:49] <jonah> DasKreech: the old kernel doesn't work properly with my new laptop, the wifi etc won't work with it well
[06:53] <jonah> when i try do something in apt it says i need to run dpkg configure a, but then i get this http://pastebin.ca/2121214
[06:53] <jonah> and it just hangs on that and won't get past it...
[06:55] <jonah> then i can't use apt at all in a new console etc as it says that it has a super user lock on already
[06:56] <jonah> meaning i have to reboot again which is also a pain, so now i can't install or uninstall anything either!!
[06:57] <new2net> I am making a partition for my backup files ~100  tar.gz|tar.bz2 files between 500MB and 12GB. I am wondering what type of partition would be good for this, they rarely need to be accessed, so I would prefer the partition type be better for storing large files even if there is a trade off with the speed at which the files can be read from the partition. Is there a recommend type of partition for this?
[07:04] <DasKreech> new2net: Any partition would work well for that
[07:05] <Lynoure> new2net: if it is on the same disk as you data, you are already sacrificing speed and security significantly
[07:05] <Lynoure> s/you data/your data/
[07:05] <DasKreech> jonah: what's the difference in WiFi?
[07:07] <new2net> Lynoure, it is NOT on the same disk as my data. The disk is separate and the idea (hopefully) is the set a flag on this partition that lets kubuntu know- "these files are never to be executed", as they are archives and nothing on the drive is meant to be executed.
[07:07] <Lynoure> new2net: good. :)
[07:07] <jonah> DasKreech: it works in new kernel but not in old
[07:08] <jonah> i'm stuck now with dpkg was interrupted, you must run dpkg --configure -a. when i try to run this it gets stuck again. what can i do?
[07:08] <DasKreech> jonah: What's the driver it's using in the new vs old ?
[07:08] <DasKreech> new2net: I'm not sure that you can do that
[07:09] <jonah> DasKreech: i'm happy keeping this kernel, i just want to remove virtualbox and vmware player somehow??
[07:09] <Lynoure> new2net: seems you know what you are doing :) There are some speed difference between filesystem types, but they are not probably significant enough to care about or relevant for this purpose.
[07:12] <DasKreech> jonah: Just stop the vmware kernel modules from engaging and then remove vmware
[07:12] <DasKreech> new2net: You can set the parition to be readonly
[07:13] <jonah> DasKreech: i've stopped them but my problem is apt won't work. it says i need to run dpkg --configure a, but when i do this it hangs on "stopping virtualbox kernel modules"
[07:14] <DasKreech> jonah: why is it stopping the kernel modules if they are already stopped?
[07:14] <new2net> DasKreech, yes. But I don't understand what these partition flags mean: (arvrecv bios_grub boot diag hidden hp-service lvm msftres raid). Where can I learn about each flag?
[07:15] <new2net> I know what bios_grub and raid are, the rest are foreign to me.
[07:16] <DasKreech> new2net: where are you seeing those?
[07:19] <DasKreech> new2net: boot means that the computer can boot from that partition
[07:19] <DasKreech> hidden is self explanatory
[07:19] <DasKreech> lvm is a part of the Logical Volume manager suite
[07:20] <new2net> DasKreech, I hope you don't get mad that I'm using a gdm at the moment: http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2122/screenshotveu.png
[07:20] <Lynoure> new2net: I don't know what arvrecv is either. Whether things are executable (noexec) is a mount option.
[07:21] <DasKreech> new2net: Again none of what you want is part of the partition creation process
[07:21] <DasKreech> Just create a partition and don't worry so much about those options
[07:22] <new2net> DasKreech, ok. sounds good :)
[07:22] <Lynoure> new2net: ah, atvrcv, it's for another bootloader
[07:22] <DasKreech> Lynoure: Far as I know it's an Apple setting for some of thier devices
[07:23] <DasKreech> new2net: what you probably want is to mount the partition ro for readonly
[07:24] <Lynoure> DasKreech: that makes it harder to backup to it, unless one keeps on remounting. I'd probably go so far that I'd only mount on demand.
[07:24] <DasKreech> look into Redhat's automounter
[07:24] <Lynoure> unless it is for some timemachine-like constant backupping
[07:27] <new2net> DasKreech, Lynoure, The backups are manually done. I will keep the partition unmounted unless I am dealing with backups. That sounds better than read-only, do you agree?
[07:31] <new2net> DasKreech, Lynoure, in any case. I understand how to do what it is I'm wanting :) thank you both for your help.
[07:39] <Lynoure> new2net: if you do recovery, at that point mounting read-only is good, because it's a stressful situation where people easily copy the wrong way around.
[09:12] <rosco_y> When I try to install flash player 11.1 from http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/?no_redirect, I get a "
[09:12] <rosco_y> sorry
[09:13] <hateball> you get a what?
[09:13] <rosco_y> I get an "Apturl error: Unknown channel 'natty-parter'."   Grab the tar.gz, unpack in some temp-dir, copy libflashplayer.se to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[09:13] <hateball> done
[09:13] <rosco_y> (I'm running kubuntu 11.04)
[09:14] <hateball> assuming you use firefox
[09:14] <rosco_y> actually, I'm using chrome
[09:14] <hateball> libflashplayer.so, not .se
[09:14] <hateball> iirc chrome looks there for plugins as well
[09:14] <rosco_y> hateball: ty, not sure actually
[09:15] <rosco_y> Thank you hateball, I'll try to grab the tar from somewhere and copy the file as you direct :)
[09:15] <hateball> rosco_y: otherwise you can copy to /usr/lib/chromium-browser/plugins
[09:16] <hateball> I think
[09:16] <hateball> rosco_y: you can choose tar.gz from adobe
[09:16] <rosco_y> hateball: ty, I'm downloading it now....
[09:18] <rosco_y> hateball: my /usr/lib/chromium-browser/plugins directory is currently empty--will it work to simply copy the .so file there?
[09:19] <hateball> rosco_y: that is how I remember it
[09:19] <hateball> I dont have flash on this machine
[09:19] <rosco_y> :) done.  I'll restart my browser and see how it goes :)
[09:19] <rosco_y> (thanks a lot!)
[09:21] <hateball> rosco_y: I found this http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-enable-flash-support-for-google-chromium-browser.html
[09:21] <hateball> I dont recall having to --enable-plugins tho
[09:25] <rosco_y> hateball: ty--worked like a charm :)
[09:34] <jonah_> hi does anyone know how to run an fsck from recovery mode please?
[09:35] <jonah_> i've ran repair kernel boot up and pressed fsck but it doesn't seem to be doing anything
[09:38] <ikonia> jonah_: it won't be an fsck issue
[09:45] <stephans_> I am running atop and it is idicating red for vmcom: 5.3G and vmlim of 3.8... what does this mean?
[11:02] <kbroulik> does the kubuntu live session use other drivers/configuration than an installation? in the live cd my graphics card and everything works perfectly, when installed I only get a picture on one monitor, tnhe other is grey or with artefacts .. on the live cd my WiFi worked fine, now it doesnt
[11:06] <lightstar> kbroulik: have you installed the additional drivers once Kubuntu is installed on your pc?
[11:07] <kbroulik> additional drivers? jockey-kde just offers me the fglrx driver
[11:07] <kbroulik> hmm weird, when I unplug and replug the stick it works
[11:07] <kbroulik> but on system start up or when I have disabled it and reenable it, it doe snot … it uses the r8712u driver thing
[11:09] <lightstar> kbroulik: the proprietary driver? strange
[11:09] <kbroulik> ?
[11:10] <lightstar> kbroulik: oops, it is the proprietary driver. sorry, got confused for a moment
[11:10] <kbroulik> I did not check the "Install additional drivers" when installing kubuntu because I had to reinstall the system 3 times due to stupid graphics driver thing, and now it works but WiFi not reliable :(
[11:12] <kbroulik> ah, lightstar, I got a forum entry about the exact same problem with the exact same stick, let me try :)
[11:12] <lightstar> kbroulik: good for you :)
[13:14] <the_p> hi. i'm having troubles with the nvidia driver. i can see in nvidia x-server settings that there are 3 performance levels and altough i'm not using my gpu it is always in the highest one. as i am on a notebook i would like to have it on the lowest if i do not need my gpu to save energy.
[13:14] <the_p> is there any way to achieve this?
[13:40] <ironfroggy> i can't get any audio after a reboot, not even any levels shown in pavucontrol for the streams when they are playing
[13:41] <ironfroggy> i have restarted pulseaudio, with no results. is there something else i could kick that might be malfunctioning?
[13:45] <hateball> ironfroggy: I had an issue like that when booting a laptop without AC plugged in (!)
[13:46] <hateball> For whatever arcane reason
[13:46] <ironfroggy> that is very strange
[13:47] <ironfroggy> i also have other strange things with audio, and i dont know what it is _supposed_ to do, so maybe my expectations are wrong
[13:47] <ironfroggy> when i open up the sound settings in KDE, should i see my individual sound devices or just "PulseAudio server"?
[13:48] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[13:53] <almoxarife> hey
[14:53] <nellux> ciao
[15:38] <`korvin> I'm trying to install wine, and i's telling me to put kubuntu 11.10 in the disc drive
[15:38] <`korvin> -.-
[15:38] <`korvin> I'm booted off a portable harddrive
[16:27] <stephans_> I am running atop and it is idicating red for vmcom: 5.3G and vmlim of 3.8... what does this mean?
[16:29] <designbybeck> Greetings Cool Kids!
[16:32] <designbybeck> I know this is my 3rd time to ask, but still just trying to throw out some random ideas and looking for the best solution for a Public Access computer
[16:32] <BluesKaj> stephans_,  I think that's your / partition , which is proly getting full without much headroom left for defaults
[16:32] <designbybeck> I have my main login to it, and I created a Public user who isn't part of the admin group
[16:33] <BluesKaj> hi designbybeck
[16:33] <designbybeck> The Public user can see view files and read them from within the main users /home directory
[16:33] <designbybeck> so that is kinda an issue
[16:33] <designbybeck> Hello BluesKaj
[16:33] <BluesKaj> designbybeck, as long as the public user has read permissions only
[16:33] <designbybeck> I also want to set a basic password that everyone will know for the public computer, but no one can change
[16:34] <designbybeck> when I was doing it in Ubuntu the firrst time around BluesKaj, someone in that chat room had me do a command where the Public person couldn't even see the /main user files
[16:34] <designbybeck> so that was nice
[16:34] <designbybeck> just don't remember what command that was
[16:34] <BluesKaj> then make sure only the admin group can change pws
[16:37] <BluesKaj> designbybeck,  someone more familiar with public use computer permissions will know , i suggest you try the #ubuntu chat , they havew 10X the ppl in their chat and some are very knowledgable and help full...all the commands are the same as kubuntu of course
[16:37] <BluesKaj> err helpful
[16:38] <designbybeck> ahh ok thanks BluesKaj i'll go there
[16:38] <BluesKaj> cool
[16:41] <yofel> designbybeck: you just need to remove access permissions for 'other' from the main users home folder
[16:41] <designbybeck> hmmm ok yofel, where do i do that at?
[16:42] <designbybeck> in their User Management area for groups?
[16:42] <yofel> no, it's a foder permission setting
[16:42] <yofel> *folder
[16:43] <designbybeck> oh ok
[16:43] <yofel> designbybeck: as the main user, open dolphin, open the home folder properties and  on the permissions tab remove the permissions for "Others"
[16:44] <designbybeck> I found it and changed it for toher.. .and group
[16:44] <designbybeck> is that ok yofel
[16:44] <designbybeck> for group as well?
[16:44] <yofel> remove it for the group too, if the guest user is in the main user's group
[16:44] <designbybeck> although that is the only other user besides public
[16:44] <yofel> otherwise it doesn't matter
[16:44] <designbybeck> gotcha
[16:45] <yofel> btw. command line is: 'chmod o-rwx <folder>' to remove the permissions for 'other'
[16:47] <lightstar> yofel: wouldn't chmod 700 /path/to/folder be easier to remember if he wanted to only allow the user access to the folder?
[16:48] <DarthFrog>  designbybeck: And after you issue the chmod command, issuing the command "ls -ld <folder>" should show you the permissions in a bitmap.  It should read something like 770.  The "0" is the important part, it's what you set with the chmod command.
[16:48] <yofel> o-rwx doesn't touch the user and group permissions, 700 just forces a-rwx u+rwx
[16:48] <lightstar> yofel: ahh, good to know :)
[16:48] <DarthFrog> Oops, not 770.  rwxrwx--- instead. :-)
[16:49] <designbybeck> hhmmm
[16:49] <designbybeck> so wasn't that what i did gui wise DarthFrog?
[16:50] <designbybeck> or do I still need to do somethign else
[16:50] <lightstar> wait, he wants to limit to user and group, then 770 or 740 (read only for group)...sorry, didn't read the post properly...got confused for a sec
[16:50] <DarthFrog> designbybeck: No, nothing else.  That was just a check that the command worked.
[16:50] <yofel> what you did would probably be rwx------, that's fine in this case
[16:53] <designbybeck> let me switch over and check that setting now
[16:54] <DarthFrog> !permissions | designbybeck
[16:56] <DarthFrog> As an aside, I've noticed that the majority of problems with files, that don't have obvious causes, has to do with how the permissions are set.  So now permissions are the first thing I check. :-)
[16:59] <DarthFrog> Hmm, that FilePermissions document doesn't discuss SUID or GUID.  It does discuss the sticky bit, though.
[17:00] <designbybeck> Thank you DarthFrog
[17:00] <designbybeck> I switched over to the public person and I couldn't access or see the main users info
[17:01] <designbybeck> is it going to be to hard to have some things locked, and other things open
[17:01] <designbybeck> like how do i keep them from changin the password DarthFrog? I'd like for them to do something, but not system settings and such
[17:01] <designbybeck> Inn0vat32012
[17:02] <designbybeck> someone in ubuntu chat suggested a netboot?
[17:02] <designbybeck> i understand that concept to be, everytime the computer boots up, it resets itself back to a default setup?
[17:02] <DarthFrog> designbybeck: Is this a public machine that you're giving external users shell access?  This also describes a home computer where the external access is your kid.
[17:03] <designbybeck> uh i guess you'd say that
[17:03] <designbybeck> or by "shell" you mean the terminal correct?
[17:03] <DarthFrog> Yes.
[17:03] <designbybeck> no i don't guess they should need that
[17:03] <designbybeck> i'm more concern with giving them access to productivity software
[17:03] <DarthFrog> So what do you want them to be able to do?
[17:04] <designbybeck> LibreOffice, Blender, GIMP, Inkscape and so on
[17:04] <DarthFrog> Ah, that requires shell access.
[17:04] <designbybeck> oh
[17:04] <DarthFrog> But is that all you want them to be able to do?
[17:04] <designbybeck> right
[17:04] <designbybeck> just teach and show them Open Source Software
[17:04] <DarthFrog> If so, then just set them up an account and limit permissions.
[17:05] <designbybeck> well that is what i'm trying to figure out DarthFrog, not sure what all and how all to do that
[17:05] <DarthFrog> If you want to keep your own home directory private you can either encrypt it or set restrictive permissions on your home directory.
[17:05] <designbybeck> I'm looking at the Modifying Group access stuff right now
[17:05] <DarthFrog> Don't bother, you don't need it.
[17:05] <designbybeck> i did do that from the instructions given here
[17:06] <designbybeck> what is lpadmin
[17:06] <designbybeck> I should turn off sambashare group
[17:07] <designbybeck> or you are saying i don't need to worry about any of those
[17:07] <DarthFrog> A normal user doesn't have sudo access so s/he won't be able to change passwords other than their own.
[17:07] <designbybeck> and that is another thing, i don't want them changing their own password either
[17:07] <DarthFrog> Don't worry about them, they are irrelevant to you.
[17:07] <DarthFrog> No?  Why ever not?  it's good practice.
[17:08] <DarthFrog> If you've got root access, they can't hide anything from you.
[17:08] <designbybeck> i wanted something easy and generic for anyone to walk up to it and use
[17:08] <designbybeck> like Username: public password: public
[17:08] <designbybeck> or even a login without password would be nice
[17:08] <designbybeck> like ubuntu
[17:08] <designbybeck> but i didn't see that in kubuntu
[17:09] <DarthFrog> Then change the permissions on the /usr/bin/passwd file.  That's the program that does passwords.
[17:11] <designbybeck> ok i found that file DarthFrog
[17:11] <DarthFrog> It currently has rwsr-xr-x permissions.  Simply remove the "s" permission by "sudo chmod 700 /usr/bin/passwd".  After that, only root can change any password.
[17:11] <DarthFrog> the "s" permission is the SUID bit, BTW.
[17:12] <BluesKaj> I keep getting a keyring notice at bootup, i haven't set any apps etc to "lock" I don't see anything in startup & shutdown that's relavent
[17:12] <DarthFrog> And the SUID bit has been the source of many system root hacks.
[17:13] <liudas> does anyone know how to make libreoffice (installed by LO provided debs) look good in kubuntu 11.10?
[17:13] <designbybeck> ok DarthFrog.. i did that command and did an ls -l and I see that it did change
[17:13] <designbybeck> -rwxr-------
[17:14] <liudas> interface is ugly
[17:14] <DarthFrog> After that, and restricting permission on your home directory to you alone (700 permission), your guest user should be able to run any user level program and not access your private info.
[17:14] <BluesKaj> liudas,  'look good" is amatter of opinion and visual taste
[17:15] <liudas> BluesKaj: :) no it's not about somethink additional. it doesn't integrate as 3.4
[17:16] <DarthFrog> liudas: Well, you might wait until Ubuntu provides integrated debs. :-)
[17:16] <BluesKaj> liudas,  have you upgraded your desktop ?
[17:16] <BluesKaj> KDE
[17:16] <liudas> BluesKaj: yes 4.8 from ppa
[17:17] <BluesKaj> then you won't have a lot of stable options "look - wise"
[17:18] <liudas> BluesKaj: ok i'll wait the only reason for LO 3.5 is table of content that automatikaly generates hyperlinks
[17:18] <liudas> BluesKaj: ok thanks buddy
[17:18] <designbybeck> DarthFrog: i went in as public, and the user couldn't get to the User Management area
[17:18] <designbybeck> which is what is expected
[17:19] <designbybeck> I did try a few other things, trying to change other settings, and when I did try to try the root user password it didn't seem to like that either, and crashed on one screen :/
[17:20] <DarthFrog> There is no root user password.  There is no root account.
[17:20] <designbybeck> well the administrator account is what i mean
[17:21] <DarthFrog> Same thing.
[17:21] <DarthFrog> Unless you mean the user with sudo access.
[17:21] <designbybeck> corrrect
[17:21] <designbybeck> sudo user
[17:21] <DarthFrog> and if you want to give sudo access; "sudo visudo" will let you do it. :-)
[17:22] <DarthFrog> That's the command to edit the /etc/sudoers file.  Which controls access to sudo.
[17:23]  * DarthFrog wonders if there's an equivalent command for an EMACS user? :-)
[17:24] <DarthFrog> (And, yes, I know about the EDITOR env variable).
[17:26] <designbybeck> hmm
[17:26] <designbybeck> ok
[17:26] <designbybeck> well i feel a little better about this DarthFrog
[17:26] <designbybeck> Thanks for the help
[17:27] <designbybeck> I'm hoping our IT department doesn't freak out all together and not let this go through
[17:27] <designbybeck> Our Director of the Library was all for it
[17:27] <designbybeck> he saw this as a better way to serve the community by giving them more access to more tools
[17:27] <designbybeck> and I just want to push the Open Source Mindset in Education!
[17:28] <designbybeck> as you can tell, admitedly, I dont' know much about security on a multiuser system
[17:28] <DarthFrog> Why on earth are you not going through your IT dept?
[17:28] <DarthFrog> Exactly, which is why you should be letting the IT boys do it.
[17:29] <designbybeck> they don't like me
[17:29] <designbybeck> LOL!
[17:29] <designbybeck> I'm to radical in my Open Source thinking,
[17:29] <DarthFrog> If it were me and I was being bypassed, there is no way that machine would be allowed on the network!
[17:29] <designbybeck> they think it is bad and they "can support it"
[17:30] <DarthFrog> In this case, can't = won't.
[17:30] <designbybeck> they do currently have 3 public access windows 7 computers there now
[17:30] <designbybeck> most of them don't know about Open Source, or think it isn't relevant in Education
[17:31] <DarthFrog> Relevant?  It's highly relevant.
[17:31] <DarthFrog> It is education, in itself.
[17:31] <designbybeck> not to close minded people,
[17:31] <designbybeck> not to IT's who  only know how to take Taxpayers money and go buy support contracts
[17:31] <designbybeck> They don't know how to innovate
[17:31] <designbybeck> to learn on their own
[17:32] <designbybeck> and they don't teach/cross train each other
[17:32] <Ezim> :) guys you can take this off-topic channel
[17:32] <Ezim> this is more for support
[17:32] <designbybeck> *sigh*
[17:32] <designbybeck> yes yes DarthFrog has helped me with the support I needed thus far Thank you
[17:32] <DarthFrog> Ezim:  I would argue that this is support.
[17:32] <Ezim> #kubuntu-offtopic
[17:33] <Ezim> DarthFrog, okey :). for me it sounded like more offtopic.
[17:34] <BluesKaj> heh , i know a windows trained IT guy who didn't know all the servers were linux ..it was at some dumb call center ..took him 2 mos to figure what was going on ,..funny thing is he admitted it to me :)
[17:35] <Ezim> BluesKaj, :) funny story.
[17:39] <designbybeck> do you set your NumLock to be on in Kubuntu, or is that have to bein the BIOS?
[17:44] <genii-around> Usually in BIOS
[17:46] <BluesKaj> I'll ask again : I keep getting a keyring notice at bootup, i haven't set any apps etc to "lock" I don't see anything in startup & shutdown that's relavent
[17:46] <Ezim> BluesKaj, can you take screenshot?
[17:46] <designbybeck> ok I'll shut it down and check, thanks genii-around and BluesKaj
[17:47] <BluesKaj> Ezim,  it only happens on bootup , not gonna shutdown right now
[17:47] <BluesKaj> err relevant
[17:48] <Ezim> okey.
[17:48] <Ezim> BluesKaj, nothing to do with kwallet?
[17:49] <BluesKaj> Ezim,  no i have kwalletmanager disabled
[17:51] <BluesKaj> maybe i'll chack var/log
[17:51] <BluesKaj> check
[17:52] <Ezim> BluesKaj, okey.
[17:54] <swex> hey anybody please help
[17:54] <swex> why default directory in new bash session is ~/Documents instead of ~
[17:54] <swex> ?
[17:56] <Ezim> BluesKaj, is it really save to disable kwalletmanager?
[17:57] <BluesKaj> Ezim,  , I'm just a home user
[17:57] <Ezim> BluesKaj, :) okey.
[18:00] <DarthFrog> swex: What is your $HOME set to?
[18:00] <DarthFrog> swex: Have a gander at ~/.bashrc and see if your default dir is set there.
[18:01] <swex> echo $HOME=/home/swex
[18:02] <swex> there is no any *docum* string in .bashrc
[18:02] <swex> DarthFrog, ..
[18:03] <DarthFrog> swex: You having your default directory in a BASH shell being ~/Documents is non-standard.  Mine is just ~.  Somehow you've changed it.
[18:03] <DarthFrog> swex: Bash is case-sensitive.  "documen" and Documen" are different strings to bash.
[18:06] <swex> DarthFrog, I'm searching with nano)
[18:07] <swex> DarthFrog, yep that's interesting but that's happening with my on my Laptop and Home PC too
[18:11] <`korvin> plasma crashes when I try to add a panel
[18:14] <DarthFrog> swex: Only happens to me in a GUI file dialogue.
[18:14] <DarthFrog> swex: Not in a new terminal session.
[18:14] <swex> DarthFrog, try open konsole with krunner
[18:14] <swex> alt+f2 then konsole
[18:15] <DarthFrog> swex: Works fine.  As does my preferred yakuake.
[18:16] <swex> damn mb this is tilda problem
[19:42] <jcook_5xdata> anyone know how to move a windows over virtual desktops like in unity you can use shift+ctrl+alt+arrow keys
[19:45] <peace> jcook_5xdata: mm i guess there is a system
[19:59] <RKyle> Hi, my updates seem to have hung at "Preparing to configure plasma-dataengines-workspace" and I was wondering if I stopped the update and reattempt them after a reboot if it would harm my install.
[20:06] <DasKreech> RKyle: why reboot?
[20:07] <RKyle> Because I don't know how to cancel the update install.
[20:08] <DasKreech> RKyle: how are you doing the install?
[20:08] <DasKreech> In the terminal?
[20:09] <RKyle> However if you can tell me how to stop it so that dpkg isn't locked so I can run them again would be very helpful as well.
[20:09] <RKyle> The GUI for updates.
[20:09] <DasKreech> ah I should think that closing the window should cancel it
[20:11] <RKyle> I would have to terminate the process because the X and menu<"Close" link does nothing.
[20:11] <RKyle> My applications list is currently empty so could you tell me the process name so I can kill it?
[20:14] <BluesKaj> RKyle,  using muon ?
[20:15] <RKyle> I think that may be what it was.
[20:15] <RKyle> I just clicked the icon in the corner and started the updates.
[20:17] <BluesKaj> it's buggy atm , there is a fix but you have to reboot , then open a terminal and do , sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade ...the fix for the muon package manager is in the repositories , so you have to use the terminal first before it's fixed
[20:20] <RKyle> Okay, thank you very much.
[20:20] <DasKreech> RKyle: muon-updater I suppose
[20:20] <RKyle> muon-updater is the package?
[20:21] <BluesKaj> RKyle, yes I believe so
[20:21] <RKyle> Alright, I will apt-get the package after the reboot.
[20:21] <RKyle> Thank you two very much.
[20:28] <BluesKaj> BRB ..dns server is buggy
[21:19] <BoldLine> Cononcial is dropping support?
[21:26] <BluesKaj> BoldLine,  not exactly , they had only one person being paid to help develop kubuntu , and they've given him a different set of assignments/projects to work , due to the problems they have with that dumb Unity desktop ...there are still alot of volunteers taking up the slack from what I've been told so far.
[22:09] <`korvin> uhh
[22:10] <`korvin> dolphin: could not start process, unable to create io-slafe: klauncher said: unknown protocol 'file'
[22:19] <DarthFrog> `korvin: Did you ever get an answer to your wine installation question from this morning?
[23:03] <BlouBlou> Hi, anyone knows how to make a "rule" or something to auto-maximize firefox at openning?
[23:06] <qbit> right-click on the title bar and select 'Advanced', then pick either Special Window or Special Application Settings
[23:07] <qbit> 2nd tab from left is 'Size and Position' - juggle and adjust until you get what you want
[23:11] <BlouBlou> qbit: Great! Thank you
[23:23] <eli0> hey ppl. is it woth to download kubuntu dvd instead of cd? what packages are included in dvd?
[23:24] <eli0> hello. is it worth to download kubuntu dvd instead of cd? what packages are included in dvd?
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> eli0: everything that the "kubuntu-full" metapackage depends on
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> http://i.imgur.com/pidyL.png
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> ^(for an easy way to see what that is)
[23:43] <alice> hi
[23:44] <alice> нужна помощь по установке Lotus-Notes


[08:53] <gilles_> hello there
[09:06] <johnnybelfast> Hi, when someone gets a chance to look at it, there is an issue with my account on Ubuntu forums. I mistakenly created a second account. The admin told me it was against the rules to have two accounts so I stopped using one.  For some reason both accounts were disabled shortly afterwards and as such I had to open a third account just to get on. Now the third account has been shut down,...
[09:06] <johnnybelfast> ...possibly for the same reason. I work for a company of 30 people and we are migrating some of our machines to Ubuntu.  I would appreciate if this matter be resolved as soon as possible. The account I need enabled is 'Johnsie' and the accounts that can be removed are 'Skelator' and 'johnnbelfast'. If there are any issues with this then please contact<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Thanks.
[13:57] <newz2000> technoviking: good news, I got access to the dev server. Give me a ping when you have a moment to chat, I think I could use some further details.
[19:51] <el_bb> why was read access on the ubuntu forums restricted to members?
[20:06] <FTMichael> STupid Unity
[20:25] <newz2000> technoviking: around? Can you help me with the dev server? I'd like to see the error so I can start understanding how to fix it


[05:16] <thetrav> how do I set my MaaS nodes to automatically execute a script on start up?
[05:17] <thetrav> this is the nodes managed by MaaS, not the region/cluster controllers
[06:20] <mup> Bug #1252768 changed: removing (including with --purge) fails on pg script <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252768>
[06:32] <mup> Bug #1252768 was opened: removing (including with --purge) fails on pg script <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252768>
[06:38] <mup> Bug #1252768 changed: removing (including with --purge) fails on pg script <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252768>
[07:14] <mup> Bug #1440994 was opened: maas api "device read <hostname>" returns HTML 404  <api> <juju-net> <robustness> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440994>
[07:14] <mup> Bug #1440996 was opened: maas api "device create" exists but is not documented. <api> <doc> <juju-net> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440996>
[07:44] <mup> Bug #1440998 was opened: maas api "device update <id>" requires setting parent= in addition to hostname=, but it's not documented as required <api> <doc> <juju-net> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440998>
[07:44] <mup> Bug #1441002 was opened: maas api "device set-sticky-ip-address" fails with "500: 'bool' object has not attribute 'uuid'". <api> <juju-net> <robustness> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441002>
[08:06] <mup> Bug #1440894 changed: get_effective_power_parameters() - exceptions.AttributeError: 'unicode' object has no attribute 'copy' <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440894>
[08:06] <mup> Bug #1441013 was opened: maas api "device claim-sticky-ip-address" does not allocate an address when there are existing IPs assigned <api> <juju-net> <robustness> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441013>
[08:18] <mup> Bug #1441018 was opened: maas api "device release-sticky-ip-address" could use a better error message <api> <confusing-ui> <doc> <juju-net> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441018>
[08:30] <dimitern> rvba, hey there
[08:30] <rvba> \o dimitern
[08:30] <dimitern> rvba, as you've probably noticed I've tested the 1.8-alpha10 devices support and filed a bunch of bugs
[08:30] <rvba> dimitern: yes, going through them now…
[08:31] <dimitern> rvba, cheers
[08:31] <rvba> Thanks dimitern!
[08:31] <dimitern> rvba, as a general feedback - it looks much more stable than initially :)
[08:31] <rvba> dimitern: cool ;)
[08:32] <dimitern> rvba, what I couldn't quite get is how will the devices work with ipaddresses - I mean claim-sticky-ip is one option, but I was thinking of using ipaddresses reserve and then set-sticky-ip-address with it (to better fit in our addressable containers workflow)
[08:33] <rvba> dimitern: you don't need to reserve the IP and then claim it for the device: just one call to claim-sticky-ip should be enough.
[08:34] <rvba> dimitern: also, don't use set-sticky-ip-address.  Just use claim-sticky-ip-address.
[08:34] <dimitern> rvba, is the effect the same? the allocated IP will show as "Static IP" wrt IP Assignement and come from the static range?
[08:34] <rvba> dimitern: we will remove set-sticky-ip-address since claim-sticky-ip-address does exactly the same thing as set-sticky-ip-address when you pass an explicit IP address.
[08:34] <rvba> dimitern: yes
[08:35] <dimitern> rvba, ok, so we'll change juju to use claim-sticky-ip-address for containers instead of ipaddresses reserve, once the 1.8 release is in trusty
[08:35] <rvba> dimitern: sounds good.
[08:36] <dimitern> rvba, or that won't happen before october?
[08:36] <rvba> dimitern: I'm not sure about the timing tbh.  roaksoax will know.
[08:37] <dimitern> rvba, ok, we'll chat on the interlock today
[08:38] <rvba> k
[08:39] <mup> Bug #1441021 was opened: maas api "ipaddresses release" unhelpful success message; bad error message on invalid <api> <confusing-ui> <doc> <juju-net> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441021>
[12:18] <mup> Bug #1441133 was opened: MAAS version not exposed over the API <api> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441133>
[13:20] <mup> Bug #1441159 was opened: devices web UI is not updating (need to refresh) <confusing-ui> <dashboard> <juu-core> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441159>
[13:20] <mup> Bug #1441160 was opened: maas should allow comment on why a system is broken <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441160>
[14:32] <mup> Bug #1440994 changed: maas api "device read <hostname>" returns HTML 404  <api> <juju-net> <robustness> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440994>
[15:15] <mup> Bug #1441211 was opened: 1.8b1 Node remains clicked in the main page after accessing node details page <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441211>
[15:21] <mup> Bug #1441211 changed: 1.8b1 Node remains clicked in the main page after accessing node details page <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441211>
[15:33] <mup> Bug #1441211 was opened: 1.8b1 Node remains clicked in the main page after accessing node details page <confusing-ui> <ui> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441211>
[16:00] <saltlake> champs , does anyone have experience with HP proliant servers ? My maas server is unable to control HP server nodes since it is unable to determine the power parameters for those servers. Those servers have ILO2 on them (as displayed on the boot up screen) But I have no idea how and what powere paamaters to set for these HP proliant nodes in their maas configuration
[16:15] <saltlake> I just need a pointer on how to set the power parameters for these HP dl360 G6 nodes.
[17:57] <mup> Bug #1441211 changed: 1.8b1 Node remains clicked in the main page after accessing node details page <confusing-ui> <ui> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441211>


[00:44] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[00:45] <joelcrump> good morning lotuspsychje
[00:45] <lotuspsychje> hey joelcrump
[06:11] <ducasse> good morning
[06:12] <M_aD> morning
[08:27] <lotuspsychje> morning TJ-
[08:28] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: the channels you join most in are: #ubuntu :p
[09:06] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: LOL
[09:07] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: a plugin in weechat sometimes manages to delete the join list
[10:30] <lotuspsychje> :p
[17:13] <marcoagpinto> hey hey hey
[17:13] <marcoagpinto> the demon is here
[17:14] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[17:16]  * ducasse hides his cola
[17:16] <M_aD> lol
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> M_aD: i understand users can lookup things on google, but when its a legit ubuntu issue, we should try to solve it here first right?
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> volunteers enough here hungry to solve
[17:18] <M_aD> lotuspsychje: i just recently returned to Ubuntu, so forgive me if i still need to get used and adjust to things here in the community. :)
[17:18] <M_aD> but you're right
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> no sweat M_aD : )
[17:20] <M_aD> lotuspsychje: with some guidance i'll get there
[17:20] <lotuspsychje> M_aD: wich Os did you came from?
[17:23] <ducasse> M_aD: we have the !google trigger, channel policy is to not tell users to google something if they're asking about a genuine policy. just fyi
[17:23] <ducasse> *genuine issue, sorry
[17:25] <M_aD> lotuspsychje: i've been 13+ years with Linux at the moment, started with Ubuntu 7.04 then did the whole distrohopping thing for years. The longest i've been involved in were Ubuntu, Mint, Fuduntu, PCLOS,Phinx, Solus (the debian based one), Korora Project (5 years), Fedora a bit. Then returned to Mint and now back home at Ubuntu since last week. Trying to get unvolved in the Ubuntu Unity Remix.
[17:25] <M_aD> ducasse: thanks
[17:25] <lotuspsychje> wow thats some heavy jumping indeed
[17:25] <M_aD> unvolved/involved
[17:26] <M_aD> lotuspsychje: you don't want to know the list of distro's i tried in the past, it's huge
[17:26] <M_aD> anyway, need to get ready for work
[17:27] <lotuspsychje> cheers
[17:27] <M_aD> will check in from time to time
[17:27] <M_aD> oh, before i forget.... i'm glad to be back home ;)
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> wb M_aD :p
[17:28] <M_aD> thanks :)


[09:28] <zniavre> hello
[09:28] <zniavre> do you know if is there a way to change the color of hover effect on expander and radiocheck ?
[09:30] <zniavre> http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7863/screenshot3fl.png  this two widgets hover effects
[10:36] <mac_v> zniavre: expander you can change color... i dont understand about radiocheck?
[12:08] <zniavre> mac_v,  good afternoon
[12:08] <zniavre> http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2061/screenshot3k.png  look like the hover effect is not nice
[12:09] <zniavre> im wondering just now if it 's causes by rgba stuff
[12:09] <mac_v> zniavre: hi... oh that one... yeah , i havent yet figured that one out :(
[12:10] <mac_v> that isnt rbga... the rectangle highlight is seen even in karmic
[12:11] <zniavre> expander seems to be customisable but i hav not find the way to change the background hovering
[12:11] <zniavre> like radiocheck
[12:11] <mac_v> zniavre: did you patch the tooltips personally or is it patched in lucid?
[12:12] <zniavre> no it came with rgba module (from gnome-look.org)
[12:12] <mac_v> ah... ok
[12:12] <zniavre> im not in lucid yet
[12:13] <mac_v> i'm gonna dive into lucid today.. that why i'v been rebooting and testing my boot speeds and gonna compare in lucid :D
[12:13] <mac_v> thats*
[12:13] <zniavre> ho mac_v is on the edge ...
[12:14] <zniavre> i only tried it on vbox
[12:16] <mac_v> yeah , i did that.. but vbox does something funny to the boot splash... in my vbox the boot splash flickers .. creped me out :/
[12:16] <zniavre> that s true here too
[12:16] <mac_v> so it was not just me :)
[12:17] <zniavre> it worked just one time before the x breakage came
[12:17] <mac_v> i thought my ATI was doing funny stuff ;)
[12:17] <zniavre> alpha does funny stuff
[12:17] <zniavre> :o)
[12:28] <Equiet> mac_v: What ATI do you have?
[12:28] <mac_v> Equiet: mobility radeon X1400
[12:35] <mac_v> Equiet: just today , the fix for the emblems has been uploaded... you could try it out an see if it works...
[12:40] <Equiet> (Where?)
[12:41] <mac_v> Equiet: lp:humanity
[12:41] <mac_v> Equiet: you are familiar with bzr and launchpad right?
[12:42] <Equiet> Little bit.
[12:42] <Equiet> Give me few minutes. :)
[12:46] <mac_v> Equiet: no probs... ;) if you have any problems with the fix , kindly mention on the Bug #455879
[12:54] <Equiet> mac_v: Ok, working fine.
[12:54] <mac_v> great ;)
[12:54] <mac_v> Equiet: thanks :)
[12:56] <Equiet> It's meant to be that for remote folders it is located in the top, right?
[12:57] <mac_v> Equiet: its just the first emblem is on the bottom right , the next top right and so on...
[13:01] <Equiet> I know that, but f.e. when I add emblem to icon of another computer in LAN, it is in top right first and bottom right second.
[13:02] <mac_v> hmm , weird... anyways... brbr
[13:02] <mac_v> brb*
[13:44] <Equiet> mac_v: Do yout want a screenshot of that?
[13:45] <mac_v> Equiet: sure , you can attach it to the bug report too... that would be better
[13:45] <mac_v> bbiab
[14:15] <Equiet> Bug #496197
[15:29] <mac_v> zniavre: found out what the flicker was due to.. KMS , if the system doesnt use KMS we get wonderful Christmas neon lights ;p
[16:04] <AnAnt> Hello, why do icon themes provide both PNG & SVG formats of the icons ?
[16:10] <mac_v> AnAnt: which theme are you asking about? or is this in general
[16:10] <AnAnt> mac_v: general question
[16:11] <mac_v> AnAnt: png files are small file sizes , and svg scales better , hence the small icons are done in png to save space and the icons which need to scale are in svg size
[16:12] <mac_v> AnAnt: png icons dont scale properly
[16:12] <mac_v> in svg format*
[16:12] <Equiet> For editing icons, do you use Inkscape.
[16:13] <AnAnt> Equiet: yup
[16:13] <Equiet> *?
[16:13] <mac_v> Equiet: yup , svg icons we use inkscape
[16:14] <AnAnt> mac_v: so it has nothing to do with "caching, to save the time of rendering the icons" ?
[16:14] <Equiet> Is in Inkscape something like list of all objects on the layer?
[16:15] <mac_v> AnAnt: well , it probably was a problem earlier.. but not much now... i'm not very sure of that though
[16:15] <mac_v> Equiet: didnt understand the question
[16:16] <AnAnt> mac_v: thanks a lot
[16:16] <mac_v> np
[16:17] <Equiet> mac_v:
[16:17] <Equiet> http://www.adobe.com/newsletters/edge/april2009/articles/article4/images/fw_screenshot.jpg
[16:18] <Equiet> On the right sidebar, thare are layers and for each layer is a list of objects in it.
[16:19] <mac_v> Equiet: ctrl+shift+L , and you can see the layers
[16:21] <Equiet> It means I have to make layers by myself. :(
[16:21] <mac_v> Equiet: well of course.. ;)  or if the template has layers you can use them
[16:22] <Equiet> Thanks, mac_v.
[16:22] <mac_v> np
[16:24]  * mac_v reminded of the saying "in the land of the blind , the one-eye man is the king " :D