[12:24] <jrwren> Canonical deleted the ubuntu cloud-installer ppa?!? wow. that is... amazing.
[12:48] <cmaloney> morning
[12:48] <cmaloney> jrwren: ???
[12:50] <jrwren> cmaloney: its conjure up or GTFO, and wihtout a PPA, I assume it is snappy only now.
[12:51] <jrwren> cmaloney: but all the instructions that used to work and said `sudo apt-add-repository ppa:cloud-installer/stable` don't seem to work.
[12:51] <jrwren> Cannot add PPA: 'ppa:~cloud-installer/ubuntu/stable'.
[12:51] <jrwren> The team named '~cloud-installer' has no PPA named 'ubuntu/stable'
[12:52] <cmaloney> yeah, that's awesome
[12:53] <jrwren> not so much. I mean... its a good thing I don't care about openstack anymore :)
[12:53] <cmaloney> it would be nice if there was a forwarding address
[12:53] <cmaloney> and not just a 404
[12:53] <cmaloney> hey, just this instead because it rules
[12:54] <jrwren> yeah, i wouldn't have noticed but apt-cacher-ng was complaining
[12:55] <cmaloney> ah well
[13:12] <Scary_Guy> weird.  any reason given why?
[13:12] <Scary_Guy> also, morning
[13:14] <cmaloney> likely the usual suspects: new way to build images (conjure), and the old way is too much to maintain
[13:15] <Scary_Guy> It just seems unusual that it wouldn't be gracefully phased out or at least some notification given
[13:16] <cmaloney> rick_h: how's the knee holding together?
[13:18] <cmaloney> Scary_Guy: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on-display-on-display-i-eventually
[13:21] <Scary_Guy> I was actually thinking "Canonical deleted the cloud ppa. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
[13:22] <cmaloney> nah, that quote works best for creating something
[13:22] <cmaloney> like Ubuntu One
[13:22] <Scary_Guy> oh, wow, don't remind me
[13:22] <rick_h> cmaloney: meh...long road
[13:22] <Scary_Guy> but I think it works for changing anything ever
[13:23] <cmaloney> rick_h: slow progress, or slower than you'd like?
[13:23] <Scary_Guy> also http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png
[18:17] <brousch> Interesting job posting: Open EdX Community Lead https://boards.greenhouse.io/edx/jobs/815277#.WaBiSZOGPpI
[18:32] <cmaloney> That looks like an on-site job


[09:21] <tarzeau> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/20180421.1/ release candidate url broken
[09:21] <tarzeau> ah dropping the date, it works
[14:13] <ErichEickmeyer> If anyone is good to test the latest daily, let me know how it goes.
[15:51]  * SlidingHorn just almost borked his system
[15:52] <SlidingHorn> I was shutting down applications while doing a full-upgrade and accidentally closed the terminal o_O
[19:22] <flocculant> I assume you all know there's been a respin which needs smoketesting?
[19:32] <OvenWerks> flocculant: how long ago... is it newer than one I downloaded this morning about 4 hours ago?
[19:33] <flocculant> OvenWerks: yea - about 30 minutes ago
[19:33] <flocculant> ish
[19:33] <OvenWerks> I guess I will not finish the install with this one...
[19:33] <flocculant> I think that sil was doing something studio type test for you earlier
[19:34] <flocculant> OvenWerks: it's likely the issue causing the respin doesn't affect you - related to dconf/gsettings
[19:34] <flocculant> afaik
[19:34] <OvenWerks> ya, but better to use latest.
[19:35] <flocculant> indeed
[19:35] <OvenWerks> reboot...
[19:35] <flocculant> thought I would tell you all anyway - don't much see people talking studio in release - and I promised ErichEickmeyer I'd try and help some
[19:37] <OvenWerks> flocculant: hopefully next cycle will see more activity. A lot of people showed up in the past month... we will see if they stick around
[19:38] <flocculant> yea - I know I was about once helping ross setup testing - been reading your mailin glist - hope it all works out for you :)
[19:48] <flocculant> OvenWerks: sil did a kvm test for you
[19:49] <OvenWerks> I'll do a bare metal next
[19:49] <flocculant> yea - generally better :)
[19:50] <OvenWerks> I have a 19G partition for these things
[19:52] <flocculant> I've some - just smoke testing in kvm now
[20:53] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: daily tested ok. 64bit anyway. someone tested the 32 bit as well it says and passed.
[21:21] <SlidingHorn> I won't be in town to provide any support, but I'm refreshing for the torrent whenever it pops up, and I'll be seeding it while I'm away :)
[21:21] <flocculant> -release is actually more interested in whether to mark your iso ready or not
[21:43] <SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: do you have a Release Notes article ready?  I can post it to the website once the iso hits the server
[21:58] <SlidingHorn> (I lied...I can only log in - that's it so far)


[01:42] <dhillon-v10> ogasawara, hi :) happy new year, I have been working with the upstream kernel for a while now and I want to make a regressions database, the ones present in karmic and the ones coming up in lucid that the people discussed in the upstream, do you think it would be any useful
[01:47] <JFo> dhillon-v10, I think it would be, but that is just me :)
[01:48] <dhillon-v10> JFo, it would be a quite a bit of work and I am up for maintaining it, I will probably use launchpad API to get stuff out of launchpad and some other scripts for the upstream so do you think I should go with it :)
[01:48] <JFo> heh, I think it is very worthwhile
[01:48] <JFo> but unfortunately I can't speak for ogasawara
[01:49] <dhillon-v10> JFo, alright thanks :) yah she's pretty busy atm that's why it might take a while for her to respond
[04:57] <ogasawara> dhillon-v10: not sure if it's really necessary to have a separate database for information on regressions as it seems you can already extract regression info from Launchpad based on tags
[04:57] <ogasawara> dhillon-v10: bugs should already be getting tagged "karmic", "lucid", etc. and if it's a regression should also have the regression-* tag
[04:57] <dhillon-v10> ogasawara, I was thinking about adding more from the upstream kernel and from other distributions
[04:58] <ogasawara> dhillon-v10: if it's reported as a regression upstream too, it'd probably be better to set the upstream bug watch or bug watch to the other distributions bug
[04:58] <dhillon-v10> ogasawara, alright :) so I guess I can work on something else then
[04:59] <ogasawara> dhillon-v10: but making sure the launchpad bug and the upstream bug are linked is useful
[05:00] <dhillon-v10> ogasawara, alright I do take care of setting the upstream watches, I have gotten better at bug triaging now probably going to be a MOTU soon :)
[05:03] <dhillon-v10> ogasawara, hey is there any type of database that you guys might need, since I already started working on that one, I could modify it to suit some other needs
[09:40] <hashimi> Hi
[14:51] <jcastro> hi everyone, if I have a bug that I need someone on the team to look at eventually I assign it to ... ?
[14:56] <rtg> jcastro, get ogasawara's attention. she'll assign it accordingly
[14:56] <jcastro> rtg: thanks!
[14:56] <smb> jcastro, Nobody. Either send a mail to the kernel-team mailing list or do like rtg said
[16:02] <bjf> **
[16:02] <bjf> ** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[16:02] <bjf> **
[17:02] <bjf> ##
[17:02] <bjf> ## Meeting starting now
[17:02] <bjf> ##
[17:03] <smb> bjf, not on #ubuntu-meeting
[17:27] <apw> ogasawara, are you owning bug #499785?
[17:27] <ubot3`> Malone bug 499785 in linux "nic-usb-modules should include asix" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499785
[17:28] <ogasawara> apw: yep, I'll assign myself
[17:29] <ogasawara> apw: will send patch to the mailing list in a sec, unless you want to fix and commit.  It is just a one line patch.
[21:15] <NCommander> bjf, ericm_: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=edabd38e1a017e922e3e3b485ee3ddb4df433aa4 - dove support looks like it landed mainline
[21:20] <bjf> NCommander, very nice!
[21:20] <NCommander> bjf, not sure if it includes all our boards, but if we can scrap linux-mvl-dove as a separate package, I'll be a happy camper
[21:21] <bjf> NCommander, this isn't everything, just the beginnings
[21:22] <NCommander> bjf, of course, but still


[02:48] <duflu> That's odd. Gnome Shell on zesty was trying to use Ambiance, but now I try it on artful the default theme is Adwaita (?)
[03:30] <jbicha> duflu: how did you install gnome-shell?
[03:30] <duflu> jbicha: $ sudo apt install ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[03:31] <jbicha> duflu: you probably should have just installed gnome-shell
[03:31] <duflu> Perhaps that's the difference, yeah thanks.
[03:31] <duflu> I think I'll probably reinstall artful when it's in the iso
[03:31] <jbicha> ubuntu-gnome-desktop currently installs ubuntu-gnome-default-settings which changes a bunch of stuff
[03:32] <jbicha> and u-g-desktop will install extra apps that might not end up in default Ubuntu 17.10
[05:47] <jibel> good morning
[05:47] <duflu> Morning jibel
[07:34] <oSoMoN> good morrow!
[07:52] <andyrock> morning all
[07:58] <willcooke> ahoy hoy
[08:00] <didrocks> hey desktopers
[08:01] <willcooke> morning didrocks, how goes?
[08:01] <didrocks> willcooke: dark clouds outside :p yourself?
[08:01]  * willcooke looks
[08:02] <didrocks> (it's almost night light)
[08:02] <willcooke> looks alright, a little sunshine around today.  Cold last night, down to 4 degrees.  Stupid spring.
[08:03] <willcooke> ... and now over to Carol for the sports.
[08:13] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[08:13] <willcooke> morning flexiondotorg
[08:13] <willcooke> feeling better?
[08:13] <flexiondotorg> Not really :-(
[08:13] <willcooke> bah :(
[08:13] <didrocks> jetlag/travel related?
[08:14] <flexiondotorg> Yep, jetlag and conference flu.
[08:14] <didrocks> argh
[08:15] <didrocks> I'm sure it's due to the LAS people, you partied too much during the podcast record :)
[08:15] <didrocks> (or they promised you too many beers)
[08:27] <flexiondotorg> Something like that ;-)
[08:27] <Laney> MOINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[08:32] <willcooke> hey Laney.  How you doing?  All fixed?
[08:32] <Laney> hey willcooke
[08:32] <Laney> got some more exercises
[08:32] <Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVKfFFxOxFU
[08:33] <willcooke> woooaahh, someone swallowed a dictionary ;)
[08:34] <willcooke> from 9 seconds to 18 seconds
[08:34] <Laney> haha
[08:34] <Laney> she didn't play me the sound
[08:34] <Laney> but inorite
[08:47] <Trevinho> Ah, hello europe!
[08:48] <willcooke> hi Trevinho
[08:48] <Trevinho> hi willcooke
[09:11]  * duflu goes to play in traffic
[09:11] <duflu> Thankfully not something I need to do often
[09:34] <Laney> fossfreedom: is there a bug report for your gtk 3.22.14 problem?
[10:08] <OW> 1
[10:09] <OW> 竜が我が敌を喰らう
[10:31] <daker> dobey: any comment on that guy ⬆ ?
[10:35] <sil2100> It's just some Overwatch fan, don't worry about that
[12:12] <jbicha> Laney: fossfreedom: Budgie GTK+ bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/782494
[12:14] <Laney> taaaaaaaa
[12:20] <allison> good afternoon everyone
[12:56] <Laney> hey allison
[13:21] <allison> Laney: what are you up to these days?
[13:51] <kenvandine> Laney, are you looking after the gtk package?
[13:59] <cyphermox> jbicha: gnome-user-docs done (waiting for an AA to push it in main), gnome-g-s-d in progress.
[14:03] <cyphermox> we'd need seb to subscribe ~desktop-packages to gnome-getting-started-docs and maybe Laney to subscribe ~desktop-bugs
[14:05] <cyphermox> allison: hey, how do you do?
[14:08] <jbicha> thanks
[14:22] <jbicha> Ars released their 17.04 review today: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/ubuntu-17-04-review-this-is-unitys-true-swan-song/
[14:28] <Laney> allison: in work?
[14:28] <Laney> CI stuff, packaging stuff, release stuff
[14:28] <Laney> kenvandine: ish
[14:28] <kenvandine> Laney, :)
[14:28] <kenvandine> Laney, i think we should disable the mir backend
[14:29] <Laney> oh yeah
[14:29] <kenvandine> i'm snapping gnome stuff and have to include the mir-libs content interface because we link to mir
[14:29] <Laney> is it causing a problem?
[14:29] <Laney> what's happening to that upstream?
[14:29] <Laney> do any of the remaining Mir usecases need it?
[14:29] <kenvandine> bitrot i guess :/
[14:29] <kenvandine> i don't think so
[14:29] <kenvandine> willcooke, ^^ right?
[14:29] <Laney> if not, feel free
[14:29] <willcooke> right, no use cases for it at this time
[14:30] <willcooke> :(
[14:30] <Laney> we have some distro patches cherry-picking new stuff for it, those could be dropped too
[14:30]  * Laney hears a wail coming from Toronto
[14:30] <kenvandine> that'll also drop the content-hub deps
[14:31] <kenvandine> :(
[14:31] <kenvandine> Laney, ok, i'll do that
[14:31] <Laney> if you want a review, push it but don't upload
[14:31] <jbicha> I think I already dropped the MIR cherry-picks when I updated gtk to 3.22.12 in artful
[14:32] <Laney> that was naughty unless you checked with someone
[14:32] <jbicha> no, I mean, they were part of the new release
[14:32] <Laney> k
[14:32] <Laney> if they came from the branch that would happen
[14:32] <jbicha> kenvandine: maybe hold off on uploading the new version a few more days for the remaining Budgie issue
[14:33] <jbicha> kenvandine: there might be a .15 release to fix that
[14:33] <Laney> don't need to take the new version now
[14:33] <kenvandine> i'll get an MR up for review
[14:38] <jbicha> what do y'all think about the headerbar patches for various apps? is it better to keep them as long as they aren't holding anything else back?
[14:40] <jbicha> or should we drop them to clean up the packaging, and make GNOME apps behave more similarly everywhere as intended by GNOME
[14:40] <kenvandine> jbicha, i'm not familiar with the headerbar patches, what do they do?
[14:41] <dobey> daker: i am no good at reading kanji :)
[14:41] <kenvandine> was that to deal with our theme?
[14:41] <daker> dobey: :D
[14:44] <jbicha> kenvandine: we have patches to several apps to use a traditional toolbar instead of GNOME's CSD headerbars, when run in Unity
[14:44] <kenvandine> oh, so only affects them under unity?
[14:44] <Laney> yeh
[14:44] <jbicha> we didn't get around to all the apps, Sudoku still has the headerbars in Unity but Nautilus has a toolbar, for instance
[14:44] <Laney> they go in and muck around with the widget hierarchy directly
[14:44] <Laney> so not exactly the most robust solution
[14:45] <kenvandine> no strong opinions from me... but i guess we'd be better off dropping them
[14:45] <kenvandine> but hate to hurt the unity experience
[14:45] <jbicha> some Unity people wanted the headerbars actually, so it might be a tossup which is better for Unity
[14:45] <dobey> someone should make CSD work under unity
[14:46] <jbicha> dobey: I believe they already work, as do light-themes
[14:46] <Laney> I think Trevinho's recent theme work improves that a bit
[14:46] <dobey> jbicha: i mean work properly
[14:46] <Laney> we used to always argue about how they break LIM
[14:47] <jbicha> gnome-sudoku seems to work fine
[14:47] <dobey> it doesn't have the ugly pixels in the corners?
[14:47] <Laney> no
[14:48]  * kenvandine loves that fix
[14:48] <jbicha> oh, I guess LIM doesn't work right with them still :|
[14:48] <dobey> what about the menus in titlebars stuff? does CSD work with that
[14:49] <jbicha> dobey: no, from what I see with gnome-sudoku
[15:10] <xnox> has anybody looked at gvfs adt failures on i386 in artful<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:11] <xnox> passses everywhere else
[15:11] <xnox> then again i386 is the only 32bit full VM based test bed.
[15:13]  * Laney wonders who uploaded the package that triggered this failed run ;-)
[15:29] <jbicha> xnox: I believe gvfs's autopkgtests are flaky; that's part of why I didn't update gvfs to 1.32 for zesty because I didn't want to deal with autopkgtest for it
[15:32] <jbicha> although suddenly the tests started mostly working in February
[16:10] <xnox> jbicha, ack, retry worked. i hope nobody triggers it again, such that i can land systemd \o/
[16:12] <rbasak> Is it intentional that xserver-xorg-input-synaptics is no longer seeded?
[16:13] <rbasak> I just installed a new laptop with the artful daily, and Unity's touchpad configuration is suboptimal without it installed.
[16:13] <rbasak> Looks like it has been unseeded in artful?
[16:14] <Laney> It was intentional
[16:14] <Laney> but it does create that bug...
[16:14] <jbicha> rbasak: yes, see LP: #1686081
[16:14] <rbasak> Thanks
[16:16] <rbasak> I guess there's no point in filing an installer bug?
[16:16] <rbasak> (well, a bug related to the installation of the daily)
[16:18] <willcooke> mozjs38 is ack'd by security, so we should be able to update the seeds soon \o/
[16:27] <kenvandine> willcooke, woot :)
[16:27] <Laney> cyphermox: what are you looking for subscribers on?
[16:28] <Laney> just gnome-getting-started-docs?
[16:28] <Laney> (done)
[16:57] <cyphermox> Laney: yes, thanks!
[17:03] <jbicha> Laney: could you handle a subscriber for gdm3 too since gnome-shell currently will not run if the gdm gir is not installed
[17:06]  * willcooke -> dinner.  bbl
[17:06] <Laney> jbicha: that's done
[17:06] <Laney> I missed it in the first round because it was further down
[17:11] <Laney> nighty night
[17:39] <oSoMoN> good night!
[17:59] <rbasak> jbicha: fyi, I just filed bug 1690200 which I think may be a regression in your merge of 3.24.2-0ubuntu1. But in reproducing to write up the bug report, I found a trivial workaround, so I'm going to move on.
[18:17] <jbicha> hmm, that issue doesn't affect GNOME Shell
[18:22] <Trevinho> jbicha: with patches LIM would work...
[18:22] <Trevinho> jbicha: my theory is.... If it's not hard to bring patches around, let's do that.
[18:23] <Trevinho> like if it's just 2 minutes to adapt ok, otherwise i'd drop them... But at least thing as gedit, evince and nautilus should be kept with higher consideration, as I expect still quite a considerable number of people to continue to use U7 in next LTS.
[18:24] <jbicha> rbasak: oh never mind, it's reproducible on GNOME Shell too
[18:25] <jbicha> Trevinho: some parts of Unity7 will be broken by 18.04
[18:27] <Trevinho> jbicha: what are you referring to?
[18:27] <Trevinho> jbicha: anyway, haderbars usage won't break the usability overall... So they're "ok".
[18:28] <jbicha> it looks like UOA will be completely removed (?) but Unity (shell or control-center) don't work with GOA
[18:28] <jbicha> someone that installs Unity will need -synaptics but installing that breaks GNOME
[18:30] <jbicha> several integration patches are being dropped so I guess that's not breaking Unity but it isn't as nicely integrated as 16.04
[18:35] <willcooke> night all.  London tomorrow.
[20:09]  * kenvandine had forgotten how much fun building gtk can be


[00:01] <Keybuk> jMCg: ok, cool
[00:01] <Keybuk> ion: pull --overwrite
[00:01] <Keybuk> I tagged the wrong rev with 1.0 and changed it ;-)
[09:34] <jMCg> Another thing is logging: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Debugging says to do this manually.
[09:34] <jMCg> SMF for instance does that automatically.
[09:34] <jMCg> It would be of invaluable use.


[02:41] <xelix> What has happened to dolphin/places?  I just want to got to ~ not to get all my files sorted
[02:42] <xelix> installing konqueror
[02:43] <xelix> is it me?  I suppose it probably is...
[02:57] <xelix> finally fixed it
[03:17] <Shortstop> Hey there, can anyone help me with this series of messages I'm receiving on boot: https://bpa.st/I4TQ
[05:31] <MrFiji> Sup
 how can i restore the original os-release file ? mine has wrong info, it shows sparky linux instead of ubuntu
 i added a sparky repo to get a package but removed afterwards
[13:48] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[23:24] <kubuntu> Hi guys how can I encrypt my hard drive after install? I have about 10 terabytes of kiddy pictures to hide haha thanks
[23:25] <oerheks> in short; not.
[23:26] <oerheks> one could add an encryption protected user , but not the whole system.
[23:35] <c00ld00d> oerheks: that is good enough. thanks!


[00:00] <dsmythies> bzr is complaining that we do not have "prestine source" (or something) anyhow.
[00:00]  * godbyk has no idea what that means.
[00:01] <dsmythies> me neither, something to do with 13.10.2 I suppose coming after we setup 14.04
[00:01] <dsmythies> I have been meaning to ask on the mail list.
[00:03] <dsmythies> everybody: I wonder if history is needed for translation string migration?
[00:03] <KI7MT> I like the ubuntu-manual way, if I want 13.10 .. I go get it and go from there .. in 14.04 .. I dont need 13.10 for the most part.
[00:03] <knome> no, aren't those moved with .po files
[00:03] <godbyk> dsmythies: It isn't. The strings don't pay attention to branches.
[00:03] <godbyk> dsmythies: The strings are independent of branches.
[00:03] <dsmythies> O.K. thanks.
[00:04] <godbyk> dsmythies: No problem. :)
[00:06] <KI7MT> godbyk, just for info .. when you start fresh with ubuntu-maual  .. how is that different from what happend with ubuntu-docs
[00:06] <godbyk> KI7MT: I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase it?
[00:08] <KI7MT> godbyk, lol .. I dont either.. lol . actually you answered above what the real question was, why do we need 117m of history for each release.
[00:08] <godbyk> For the manual, I create a new, empty repository and then I manually copy over files from the previous repository into the new repository.
[00:09] <KI7MT> If I check out lp:ubuntu-docs/trusty .. I shouldnt' really get allot of rev's, as there's not been that many.
[00:09] <godbyk> So each new repository resets history, basically.
[00:09] <KI7MT> yeah, that makes since to me, for what we are doing, there's no real need for major regression .. with the kernel, yeah i can see why that would be a wanted item.
[00:10] <KI7MT> but for docs, each version has a wall, release date to EOL.
[00:11] <KI7MT> outside of that, who cares really, get the previous or follow on versions.
[00:12] <KI7MT> It makes sense to pill the source files from the previous version, just for the base, but there's no guarantee all the .page files will be used, or even wanted.
[00:12] <KI7MT> * to pull
[00:25] <dsmythies> KI7MT: are you knowlegable about wordpress?
[00:27] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Not particularly, I've sent up allot VPS / Vhosts that use WP. Did did the Apache + Nginx caching + CDN work for them.
[00:31] <dsmythies> KI7MT: do you know if older versions had wp-content at /var/lib/wordpress/wp-content but newer have it at /usr/share/wordpress/wp-content ?
[00:31] <KI7MT> No I dont know that.
[00:32] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Thanks.
[00:32] <knome> dsmythies, sounds like something that's related to the ubuntu package more than wordpress itself
[00:33] <dsmythies> knome: I am just wanting to deal with: https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/+bug/1264963 , which is a trivial bug, but I need to figure out this one thing.
[00:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1264963 in Ubuntu Server Guide "Wordpress configuration apache site information wrong" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[00:35] <dsmythies> knome on my computer it's at /usr/share/wordpress/wp-content (note: I don't actually run WP, I installed way back when I was checking the wp doc addition)
[00:36] <knome> :)
[00:37] <dsmythies> I think I'll just delete this alias: Alias /blog/wp-content /var/lib/wordpress/wp-content becuase it doesn't currently work anyhow.
[01:26] <KI7MT> shaunm__, If you around, is there an IRC channel, other than the web IRC we can use for gnome-docs ?
[01:43] <shaunm__> KI7MT: #docs on irc.gnome.org
[01:43] <shaunm__> gnome's irc channels aren't on freenode
[01:44] <KI7MT> shaunm__, Thank you.
[01:48] <KI7MT> shaunm__, GIMPNet == irc.gnome.org ... no wonder I cold not find it :-)
[01:48] <KI7MT> *could
[01:49] <shaunm__> oh, yeah
[01:49] <shaunm__> it was GIMP's irc network first
[01:52] <KI7MT> shaunm__, do we have to go through the NickServ registration and all that like we do for freenode?
[01:54] <shaunm__> KI7MT: no, gimpnet's not as strict about that.
[01:55] <KI7MT> Ok, thanks, I found gnome Wiki about IRC info, having a read there.
[02:54] <KI7MT> wow, I just installed gnome-shell and did some checking. Allot of the things I'm seeing in the .page files is making allot more sense.
[02:55] <KI7MT> Is the long term goal to Have (1) Desktop Help .. or .. is it to have Keep them separate for Unity, Gnome, Touch etc?
[02:55] <KI7MT> *have / keep
[02:59] <KI7MT> For example, in gnome3, The Online Accounts Interface is very different to what is in Unity .. and the available service selections is 3 v.s. like 9 in Unity.
[03:47] <shaunm__> KI7MT: we've basically given up on having a single desktop help. gnome and unity have just diverged too much
[03:47] <shaunm__> but a lot of the things mallard does are shaped by our attempts to do so
[03:50] <KI7MT> shaunm__, Yes, seems Mallard is the right tool for the Job ... I think the Unity side has to look hard at everything at this point.
[04:13] <KI7MT> shaunm__, I just did a quick grep and there's like 76 or so files in ubuntu:docs that still have if:choose tags in them.
[19:16] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I was on the 14.04 workstation emails.
[19:20] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Im to the point now where I'd recommend reverting to r324 and cancel the pending MP .. and when there a decision about all the open issues. maybe of these issues are outside the scope of the MP/
[19:20] <KI7MT> *when a decision is made
[19:22] <KI7MT> dsmythies, As for the needed files, if you not using yelp-new why do we need page.stub or .tml files?
[19:23] <dsmythies> KI7MT: files: That is a different subject than files as a result of building the html
[19:23] <KI7MT> dsmythies, for instance, see ubuntu-docs/C/{unity-stubs,templates}
[19:24] <dsmythies> KI7MT: there is some e-mail about why the stub files are there. I'll tyr to find it.
[19:24] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I think you should just revert to 324 and rejst the pending MP .. then with the powers to be, get a consensus on the open issues.
[19:24] <KI7MT> * .. reject
[19:25] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I was hoping godbyk would have commented by now. I was thinking to accept the pending MP and move on for now.
[19:25] <KI7MT> dsmythies, As for now, there are too many open policy issues that need to be resolved
[19:26] <godbyk> dsmythies: Which MP?  I'll take a look at it in just a moment if you like.
[19:26] <dsmythies> KI7MT: There is no about at all on the index page now. Maybe that is what gunner was commenting on.
[19:26] <godbyk> I have to get caught up on all the ubuntu-docs emails, too.
[19:26] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Also, the Build Page need fixed, it tells you to install yelp and the required files, if we not using yelp, why install it?
[19:27] <dsmythies> The one that fixes the one that already was accepted.
[19:27] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I know there is no "About"   there no need or it, it's a mute point for Unity Desktop Help, as the footer is totally different.
[19:27] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I'll look at the build page. as far as I know everythhing that is says is needed is needed.
[19:28] <dsmythies> KI7MT: No it is not. Is is identical. Do not confuse yelp help with the html. They are different.
[19:29] <KI7MT> Well On my 14.04 desktop install and all the normal make builds, nothign shows the "About" info. The only way I can see "about" info is build using yelp, which you've said I shold not do.
[19:30] <dsmythies> What? I did not. I said to not use yelp-build, but rather use yelp-build via the make command
[19:30] <KI7MT> yes, that's what Im saying, not to use yelp-build ..
[19:31] <dsmythies> To test a local branch browse to the file, say index.page and select "open with" and select "help", which will use yelp.
[19:32] <dsmythies> That is what I did in those screen shots.
[19:32] <dsmythies> All three method use the built in "help" system, which uses yelp.
[19:32] <KI7MT> Im so confused with the methodoly here, it just makes no sense to me what so ever.
[19:33] <dsmythies> KI&MT: O.K. Lets start again. And lets leave html out of  completely for now...
[19:33] <dsmythies> KI7MT: O.K. Lets start again. And lets leave html out of  completely for now...
[19:33] <KI7MT> Im gonna go take a break .. BBL
[19:34] <dsmythies> KI7MT: O.K.
[19:41] <dsmythies> godbyk: https://code.launchpad.net/~ki7mt/ubuntu-docs/online-accounts-update/+merge/201135 that benjamin merged, but that needs ...
[19:42] <dsmythies> godbyk: https://code.launchpad.net/~ki7mt/ubuntu-docs/accounts-files-patch/+merge/201182 to be complete, but...
[19:43] <dsmythies> godbyk: all you reaaly need to do is look at my e-mail with screen shots and it shows all 3 side by side (proposed, the way it was, and GNOME)
[20:00] <godbyk> dsmythies: Okay, I'll take a look. Thanks!
[20:18] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Im back, this is my recommendation, and i'm sticking to it. Reject my proposed MP, and revert to r324 as I clearly do not understand how the build system works and should not have proposed changes until I do.
[20:19] <dsmythies> KI7MT: at this point we can not. as now MPs are stacked onto it.
[20:20] <KI7MT> dsmythies, You can not what? reject the MP or revert to 325?
[20:20] <KI7MT> *324
[20:21] <dsmythies> Revert. Which in my mind means we really need to accept the new MP because it fixes the existing one.
[20:23] <dsmythies> * the existing, already merged, one.
[20:26] <KI7MT> dsmythies, the fixes are minor, it's the policy that really needs to be resolved.
[20:28] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I know, and sorry for the frustrtion. I see that gunners new MP adds to differences that already exist between UNITY and GNOME in keyboard-layouts.page
[20:28] <KI7MT> dsmythies, an easy way to do it would be, accept the mp, then revert just the edited files, and re-commit, that should keep things in line elsewhere.
[20:29] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I know.
[20:31] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I didn't mean to create a saga.
[20:32] <KI7MT> dsmythies, like I said int the email I sent last night, there's things that need to be resolved and published before people spend more man hours creating more issues.
[20:32] <KI7MT> dsmythies, In other words, we need written guidence.
[20:35] <knome> written and brief but to-the-point
[20:36] <knome> i can most definitely help get https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam in shape, but not sure how useful i am with the content
[20:36] <knome> i think it's better to 'release early, update often' than try to create something perfect in the darkness
[20:39] <KI7MT> knome, indeed, the nice thing about a vcs is you can always go back if it's busted.
[20:39] <knome> i was talking about the wiki, but that has versioning too :)
[20:50] <KI7MT> knome, I always work by, make a decision, stick by it, if it fails, put measure in place to prevent repeat-failures, and move on :-)
[20:51] <knome> works with docs.
[20:51] <KI7MT> :-) life an death tings probably not a good approach .. but most other things is ok :-)
[21:07] <KI7MT> dsmythies, so what's the final verdict here?
[21:29] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I suppose, another option, commit the MP, create a bug, assign to me and make me fix it ! :-) that will at lest get things moving again.
[22:37] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I'll commit the MP. Then we'll WAIT for the discussion to catch up, but meanwhile can catch up with the other MPs.
[23:01] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Ok, there's another one line fix coming for legal.xml.
[23:08] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I think gunner is doing the legal.xml fix and adding to his already pending MP. Check with him.
[23:08] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Ok
[23:18] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I sent a note out, but I don't see it included in his current MP on launchpad.
[23:43] <KI7MT> dsmythies, re Gunnar's MP - I'd merge it, and bug / task list the remaining item .
[23:44] <KI7MT> assuming your happy with the other edits of course.