[15:00] <micahg> !dmb-ping
[15:03] <cyphermox_> o/
[15:19] <ginggs> hi, so what happens now?
[15:21] <micahg> well, if we can't get at least one more, we unfortunately have to postpone, one member has already voted in absentia
[15:23] <ginggs> micahg: ok, thanks
[15:24] <micahg> around this time of year, sometimes people are away, it can be hard to get quorum
[15:52] <micahg> ginggs: LocutusOfBorg1 , I'm sorry folks, I'll try to ascertain quorum before the next meeting,but as it's the tail end of the vacation season, we still might have issues, I'll be in touch if we won't have the next meeting
[15:53] <ginggs> ok, happy holidays!
[15:54] <micahg> to you as well
[15:58] <LocutusOfBorg1> no problem! cheers!
[15:58] <LocutusOfBorg1> :)
[15:58] <LocutusOfBorg1> I'll be also not too much availabe until next year
[20:23] <mikodo> Can someone update the "Recognized Flavors" on the Ubuntu Derivatives page to include Ubuntu Mate if it is appropriate to do so: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Derivatives  https://ubuntu-mate.org/  I don't know if there is any restrictions or not on an Official flavor being included on a  Ubuntu Derivative Team page.


[00:03] <jbicha> robert_ancell: that's what it looks like, yes
[00:14] <robert_ancell> The transitions in GNOME Shell are really clunky...
[00:15] <TheMuso> I've run GNOME shell on a fast box here before, and found it sluggish when using the keyboard so whilst not the same thing, I don't feel that GNOME shell is performant.
[00:15] <TheMuso> That was with a GPU with free drivers too.
[00:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, it's not the performance more the timing and lack of transitions in various places
[00:16] <robert_ancell> Though it is a little laggy too
[00:16] <TheMuso> Ok, well it certainly feels sluggish when moving through the shell menus compared to say a menu in a GTK app.
[00:20] <robert_ancell> And the triple bar at the top for maximized window (system + app + menubar) feels like going back to the dark ages.
[00:21] <robert_ancell> The overview is much nicer than Unity though
[00:21] <jbicha> robert_ancell: I think that duplication isn't a problem for the "native" GNOME3 apps
[00:22] <robert_ancell> jbicha, it's certainly less of a problem, but still visual overload to me being used to the tidy way Unity does it
[00:22] <robert_ancell> I'm here for good now though, so I can only complain through bug reports and patches :)
[00:24] <jbicha> there was a desktop-devel discussion about menus earlier this month because the GNOME3 way still has a major discoverability problem
[00:24] <robert_ancell> jbicha, what's wrong with the GNOME3 discoverability of menus?
[00:25] <robert_ancell> oh, the appmenu?
[00:25] <jbicha> yes, important stuff is in there, but you kind of have to be told that it is a menu!
[00:25] <robert_ancell> yeah, they're a bit useless IMO
[00:27] <jbicha> robert_ancell: ok, gdm3 started after I installed ubuntu-gnome-default-settings
[00:27] <robert_ancell> jbicha, aha
[00:29] <robert_ancell> That lock screen shield... What is the logic behind that?
[00:33] <robert_ancell> I think I'll have to get involved in Polari development, would be nice to finally kick xchat
[00:35]  * robert_ancell -> lunch
[00:36] <jbicha> lock screen ?
[01:19] <jbicha> robert_ancell: bug 1686257 !
[01:20] <jbicha> that was not what I expected to find at all
[01:23] <jbicha> I wonder if that would fix cyphermox's problem with gdm3 ^
[01:51] <robert_ancell> jbicha, when you lock the screen you have to slide up before seeing the login box
[01:51] <robert_ancell> I'd hoped that would be gone by now.
[01:57] <jbicha> robert_ancell: you can just start typing
[01:57] <robert_ancell> Still it's confusing and pointless..
[01:58] <jbicha> I believe it's the same way Windows 8+ does it, except that Windows isn't as good at the "just start typing" part
[01:58] <jbicha> I assume it's useful if you ever install GNOME on a tablet
[02:27] <duflu> You don't need to "slide up" in Windows... tapping space bar does the same thing
[02:28] <duflu> and is a lot more convenient if you're about to enter a password
[02:32] <jbicha> duflu: you don't need to slide up with gdm either
[02:33] <duflu> That's good. I would expect everyone to produce a login screen that's keyboard-navigatable (if that's even a word)
[02:35] <jbicha> navigable :)
[02:36] <jbicha> robert_ancell: did you see the updates on LP: #1632772 ?
[02:36] <duflu> If only the lexicon was more navigable
[02:36] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I didn't read it in detail
[02:36] <jbicha> it's Unity8's fault that GNOME on Wayland broke :|
[02:41] <duflu> I noticed when Gnome on Wayland finally started we're missing shadows and corner-decoraation transparency. Is there a bug for that?
[02:41] <duflu> I don't know the right Gnome packages to pick on...
[02:43] <jbicha> duflu: what theme are you using?
[02:44] <robert_ancell> duflu, it's the Ambience theming, use gnome-tweak-tool to reset it all to the defaults.
[02:45] <duflu> jbicha: The default on a zesty installation. Yeah sounds like Ambiance isn't Gnome-Shell-ready
[02:48] <jbicha> duflu: set the GTK+ theme and icon theme to Adwaita, if LP: #1685272 doesn't describe that issue, please file a new bug
[02:51] <duflu> Thanks. I don't need it to look nice right now. Just want to know that Ambiance will get fixed soon enough
[02:53] <jbicha> it might not get fixed if the bugs aren't filed
[02:53] <jbicha> no one's really maintaining light-themes right now
[02:55] <duflu> jbicha, rest assured there are enough of us in the world who care about Ubuntu's appearance. It would get fixed soon enough :)
[02:56] <robert_ancell> duflu, we're not sure if we'll continue Ambience or start a new theme that works better with GNOME
[02:56] <duflu> Yeah, fairy nuff
[02:56] <robert_ancell> It's one of the things on the list to solve
[02:58] <duflu> robert_ancell, I do very much want to see Ubuntu look better than Adwaita though... it's so clunky. Red Hat (and others) dropped the ball
[02:58] <robert_ancell> I'm not loving the font
[02:59]  * robert_ancell makes a zesty VM
[03:01] <robert_ancell> We really have to update ubuntu.com - it still says we're the leading operating system for phones...
[03:02] <jbicha> it's probably a good idea for a theme to use Adwaita as a base (as long as you don't mind (L)GPL-2.1+)
[03:02] <jbicha> robert_ancell: do you have fonts-cantarell installed?
[03:03] <robert_ancell> jbicha, yep
[03:03] <jbicha> otherwise, I think it defaults to Sans or something
[03:03] <robert_ancell> Cantarell is just not as well done as the Ubuntu for for legibility I think
[03:03]  * duflu can almost hear cimi saying "it looks shit" from here
[03:06] <jbicha> you can patch it to use the Ubuntu font, look in gnome-shell's data/theme/
[03:11] <Trevinho> xnox: in your upstart branch, I guess you might also remove the UpstartWrapper at all, as it won't be there, or should I do it?
[07:46] <oSoMoN> good morning!
[07:46] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:47] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[08:00] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:01] <Laney> sup
[08:07] <willcooke> ahoyhoy
[08:16] <seb128> hey oSoMoN davmor2 Laney willcooke
[08:17] <seb128> how are things today?
[08:17] <willcooke> c.c.c.c.c.cold
[08:17] <willcooke> Winter has returned
[08:17] <oSoMoN> not cold here, but rainy and gloomy
[08:18]  * willcooke checks his charts
[08:18] <willcooke> http://imgur.com/a/WxLxG
[08:18] <willcooke> Down to freezing again last night
[08:18] <davmor2> it is the opposite to eddie izzards fantastically hot safe cracking shower joke
[08:19] <Laney> urgh
[08:19] <Laney> got soaked on the way to the pub quiz
[08:19] <Laney> the met office said it wasn't going to rain
[08:20] <Laney> jerks
[08:20] <davmor2> Laney: it's England always assume rain
[08:21] <Laney> fair point
[08:21] <willcooke> rain is good for me right now.  I put some grass seed down where I'd removed some large bushes.  I couldn't be arsed to water it every day and the pidgeons ate it all.  Put some more down on Monday and now it's been raining things should start to happen
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, hah, I had the same problem
[08:22] <willcooke> I've been following your garden antics on Twitter :)
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> I had to reseed my lawn and then it was dry for about 3 weeks. I could do with a warmish, showery couple of weeks really
[08:23] <willcooke> I think it needs to be above about 5 or 6 for the seed to germinate, so should be warm enough, just
[08:24] <chrisccoulson> I have had some germinate now, but it's very slow. And I'm going to have to reseed again, thanks to the pigeons
[08:26] <Laney> there was a segement on reviving lawns on GW the other week
[08:27] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, I got seed off ebay which was coated in "head start" or something like that, supposed to speed it up.
[08:27] <willcooke> I have GW recorded on my Myth box, I will check that out
[08:27] <willcooke> and skip through all of Carole's bits because she is very very boring
[08:27] <willcooke> *Carol
[08:28] <chrisccoulson> That sounds like my sort of thing
[08:28] <TheMuso> Hey EU folks.
[08:28] <TheMuso> Its actually starting to feel like winter here... Again, which is good.
[08:28] <willcooke> evening TheMuso
[08:28] <chrisccoulson> My lawn was a mud bath a few weeks ago
[08:32] <Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08mkmrq/gardeners-world-2017-episode-6 07:15
[08:32] <Laney> hey TheMuso
[08:32] <Laney> how are you?
[08:32] <TheMuso> Laney: Quite well thanks. Yourself?
[08:32] <chrisccoulson> Laney, thanks!
[08:35] <Laney> TheMuso: Decent thanks
[08:35] <Laney> Although we came last in the pub quiz :'(
[08:35] <Laney> got the bonus question though (what country is Shakira from?@)
[08:35] <TheMuso> Aww that sucks.
[08:35] <TheMuso> lol what a bonus questino! :)
[08:35] <TheMuso> question*
[08:36] <Laney> high brow
[08:37] <davmor2> TheMuso: apparently it is hug an Australian day prepare for the incoming hugs apparently it's the law or something
[08:37]  * davmor2 hugs TheMuso
[08:38] <TheMuso> davmor2: awww thanks. :)
[08:46] <davmor2> offline for a bit while I wipe my system and install gnome and see what I need to do to it to make it bearable
[08:46] <dednick> good morning all.
[08:51] <Laney> duflu: The theme problems are known.
[08:51] <willcooke> morning dednick, how goes?
[08:51] <duflu> Laney: Yeah. I know it's annoying having people pick on things this early in the cycle.
[08:52] <Laney> It's fine
[08:52] <Laney> But they have been reported already
[08:52] <duflu> Certainly, given a choice I prefer to work entirely in bug reports and not be in IRC :)
[08:56] <seb128> who mentioned theme issues?
[08:56] <dednick> willcooke: it goes well thanks, and you?
[08:57] <seb128> it feels like I missed the start of that discussion
[08:58] <duflu> seb128: It's totally not important. Just a bug in the pile
[08:58] <duflu> At least now I know it's not as important as it looked
[08:59] <seb128> k, well in any case we have a stack of theme issues filed in launchpad
[09:00] <seb128> so feel free to check that list and file some more as needed
[09:01]  * duflu tries to resolve his previous comment with the need for it to be High
[09:01] <xnox> Trevinho, i did not want to break any of UpstartWrapper stuff in case you are going to backport this back to e.g. xenial.
[09:02] <xnox> Trevinho, but also I'm not sure if we want to include removal of the UpstartWrapper in this release.
[09:02]  * xnox only did the minimal amount of work.
[09:05] <xnox> Trevinho, bileto is complaining about new commits in https://code.launchpad.net/~muktupavels/compiz/gwd-hidpi/+merge/323100 now
[09:08] <dednick> anyone that recently started using gnome notice their screen dimming to be a bit wonky? randomly dimming a few seconds when I stop using kb/mouse. I have it turned off in power settings fyi.
[09:08] <Trevinho> xnox: yeah, in fact I wanted to backport that... But I'd skip that commit anyway
[09:09] <Trevinho> xnox: so.... we can probably just get rid of it, and it shouln't cause problems
[09:09] <Trevinho> xnox: about that, yeah... the provate key issue is back, sil2100 is on it
[09:09] <sil2100> Yeah, it should be *temporarily* fixed once again, but the real fix is ready for deployment
[09:10] <willcooke> duflu, FWIW kenvandine started using the tag "gnome-17.10" : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bugs?field.tag=gnome-17.10
[09:10] <sil2100> Trevinho: I suppose you can try building the silo now anyway
[09:11] <duflu> willcooke, great! But light-themese stopped being the correct source package after precise. Let me de-duplicate..?
[09:11] <willcooke> thanks duflu
[09:11] <Laney> It's ubuntu-themes.
[09:12] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bugs?field.tag=gnome-17.10
[09:12] <willcooke> yeah, I think I bookmarked the wrong page
[09:12] <seb128> hey dednick
[09:13] <seb128> dednick, I didn't use GNOME much yet but didn't notice that issue ... is that under wayland or x11?
[09:13] <dednick> seb128: x11
[09:14] <dednick> seems to be about 10 seconds after not touching :/  freaking annoying!
[09:15] <duflu> dednick: Sounds roughly like some repowerd bug(s)... and I suspect repowerd is going away with unity8
[09:16] <duflu> Stopping repowerd might solve it
[09:16] <duflu> And eventually dropping it, perhaps
[09:16] <dednick> looks like it's because i was on battery power.
[09:17] <duflu> Yes, separate policies... but I guess we also have multiple power daemons fighting for control now?
[09:17] <dednick> but...
[09:18] <dednick> duflu: repowerd a service? don't have it running?
[09:19] <dednick> duflu: and that's under unity right? I'm on gnome.
[09:19] <duflu> dednick: You sure? I'm not even logged in and it's running on my zesty
[09:20] <duflu> Oh, right. It might be absent in an Ubuntu Gnome install but on regular zesty with gnome packages added then repowerd is present
[09:20] <dednick> hm. i apparently just started it.
[09:20] <dednick> wasn't running earlier
[09:21] <dednick> i had unity running before though; added gnome later.
[09:21] <duflu> dednick: Yeah me too. But the point is each power daemon has its own timeouts and policies. Your screen dimming will be chaotic if you have multiple of them present
[09:22] <duflu> I'm assuming Gnome uses... something else
[09:22] <dednick> think it uses upower...
[09:23] <dednick> GNOME power manager - whatever that is...
[09:23] <seb128> gnome-settings-daemon is doing the handling
[09:23] <seb128> like handling of timeouts, levels, configs, etc
[09:23] <seb128> upower is the service it uses
[09:24] <dednick> although dont seem to have gnome-power-manager either.
[09:24] <duflu> I think repowerd was a great idea, but it's now redundant and unmaintained, and will cause bugs if allowed to run
[09:24] <seb128> gnome-power-manager is only an UI nowadays
[09:24] <seb128> show you battery graph and such
[09:24] <seb128> but the user service is gnome-settings-daemon
[09:24] <seb128> yeah, upowerd shouldn't be used
[09:26] <dednick> seb128: don't seem to have gnome-settings-daemon runnig either :/
[09:27] <duflu> Still, I would bet Gnome Shell is not designed to use Unity8's repowerd
[09:27] <dednick> i'm on Ubuntu GNome - not sure if that makes a diff
[09:27] <muktupavels> there is no one gnome-settings-daemon, it is split in small programms gsd-*
[09:28] <dednick> muktupavels: woomp there it is.
[09:28] <dednick> gsd-power
[09:29] <dednick> so not i'm definitely going to be getting fights happening with repowerd and gsd-power running. :)
[09:29] <dednick> and kill.
[09:31] <seb128> yeah, uninstall powerd and stop it, we should make sure it's not left installed/started on upgraded systems
[09:31] <dednick> and now when i remove by power cable it's not dimming. nothing like being inconsistent!!
[09:32] <dednick> probably something getting screwed up when resuming from suspend.
[09:32] <duflu> In the least, make sure you kill repowerd. At a guess it will not see any shell it knows and will assume the system is idle; hence dim the screen repeatedly
[09:33] <duflu> Although I'm assuming Alexandros did not add Gnome Shell support
[09:34] <duflu> Perhaps he did
[09:34] <Laney> Does it really do things when any old random shell is running?
[09:35] <duflu> Probably shouldn't, but it came from a world where we owned the whole system... (shrug)
[09:36] <duflu> And I know it was a pain when I ran my own random shell
[09:37] <Laney> I've got it running on my Unity 7 systems
[09:37] <Laney> Didn't notice any particular problems
[09:38] <Laney> But if it is causing them and we just didn't find out yet, that would be a fix to SRU
[09:38] <dednick> Laney: it working fine on U7 for me as well. Probably came from having both on Ubuntu Gnome.
[09:39] <dednick> although it didn't seem to be running at the time...
[09:40] <Laney> oh well
[09:41] <ahayzen> Hey, me and a few others have been having an issue under GNOME Shell where sometimes when pressing Alt+Left/Right Arrow will result in the TTY changing. The workaround found is to run `sudo kbd_mode -s` but I wanted to report a bug for the issue and was wondering if someone would be able to suggest a package ? Or should i just report against gnome-shell ?
[09:42] <willcooke> ahayzen, is the alt-f4 switching vtys as well?
[09:42] <ahayzen> willcooke, it was for p_opey :-) i can't remember if it did for me
[09:43] <Laney> I've had that under Unity before
[09:43] <duflu> Is Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right the expected combo for that?
[09:44]  * duflu is thinking Ctrl is stuck logically
[09:44] <dednick> i think that's for moving windows between workspaces
[09:44] <ahayzen> i think Ctrl+Alt+F1/F2 etc is the normal
[09:44] <Laney> alt-arrows is supposed to do it if you are on a VT
[09:44] <Laney> but not if you are inside your desktop
[09:45]  * duflu tries and finds VTs are broken. Must be a Wednesday
[09:45] <dednick> ah. so key is not being caught by shell.
[09:45] <ahayzen> and this has happened on both wayland and X11 IIRC
[09:45] <Laney> or some driver or kernel problem
[09:46] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1508146
[09:46] <Laney> don't know if I reported it when it happened to me
[09:47] <ahayzen> Laney, and that looks like it
[09:47] <ahayzen> *ah
[09:47] <popey> willcooke: yes, alt-f4 was switching to a tty
[09:48] <willcooke> Shall we use rls-a-incoming for these sorts of things?
[09:48] <willcooke> or rls-aa-incoming
[09:49] <ahayzen> popey, are you under Intel graphics as well ? IIRC all the people so far were under intel
[09:52] <Laney> the reports will use -a-
[09:53] <willcooke> thx Laney
[09:57] <willcooke> I predict that was dednick testing alt-f4 ^ ;)
[10:01] <Laney> quality trolling
[10:01] <Laney> back in the mIRC days you used to get people posting encoded commands for others to execute
[10:01] <Laney> could get quite creative with those
[10:02] <Laney> when you were able to "nuke" Windows machines someone got me to nuke my own in that way
[10:06] <popey> ahayzen: yes
[10:07]  * popey recalls mentioning the "hold down printscreen" bug in here recently, without mentioning that it basically locks up your machine. Got swearing from willcooke :)
[10:07] <ahayzen> :')
[10:26] <jbicha> Trevinho: if you want to get involved with the non-integer scaling development, I recommend talking to fmuellner on #gnome-shell in irc.gnome.org
[10:27] <davmor2> willcooke, seb128, Laney: fix number one http://paste.ubuntu.com/24459500/ software installer wouldn't install it, went with dpkg and that won't either because it is missing deps
[10:28] <willcooke> Interesting, so Chromes new native notifications use libappindicator
[10:28] <willcooke> neat
[10:29] <willcooke> davmor2, "software installer" = GNOME Software?
[10:29] <willcooke> if so, known and fixed, robert_ancell will do a new release this week
[10:30] <davmor2> willcooke: I assume so it just offered me the install in software installer option in firefox I assume it is gnome-software
[10:30] <jbicha> davmor2: instead of dpkg, I usually use 'sudo apt install ./path-to.deb' because it can install dependencies; some people use gdebi instead
[10:31] <jbicha> oSoMoN: why is the Chromium 59 build using use_gtk3=false ?
[10:31] <davmor2> jbicha: yeap I'm actually on the hunt for issues while setting up my daily use machine so I'm not actually after solutions just highlighting issues as I go
[10:32] <Laney> yes, use apt, dpkg itself never installs dependencies
[10:32] <Laney> that's not an issue
[10:32] <Trevinho> jbicha: ok, cool thanks
[10:32] <Trevinho> willcooke: is that something we care about^ ?
[10:33] <willcooke> Trevinho, non-int scaling? YES!!!!!!11one
[10:33] <willcooke> Trevinho, would love for you to get involved
[10:34] <willcooke> Trevinho, if you would like to
[10:34] <Trevinho> willcooke: ok, neat... :-)
[10:34] <davmor2> issue number 2 hexchat has no menu, issue number 3 the quit option in the gnome menu only shows on screen 1 when hexchat is open on screen 2 so even if it had the menu there I would not be able to see it obviously on the screen where the app is
[10:34] <Trevinho> Yeah, I mean... I've already spent some unity time on that, so... I can put some efforts in that too
[10:37] <oSoMoN> jbicha, I dunno, that was disabled at the time of the Cr 53 release but the changelog doesn’t elaborate on that change
[10:37] <oSoMoN> I can try turning it on
[10:43] <jbicha> oSoMoN: I haven't look at the Cr59 source but my understanding was that gtk3 was going to be enabled by Google by default in like 59 or 60
[10:43] <jbicha> so I would just remove the use_gtk3=false line from d/rules and see what happens?
[10:45] <jbicha> I was just curious, since Cr is the last gtk2 app I have installed (although Firefox still depends on gtk2, I assume for Flash)
[10:48] <oSoMoN> jbicha, I’ll give it a go
[10:52] <oSoMoN> indeed: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/0ff8b19608421be5fa5b53e90c097e4992723b90%5E%21/#F0
[10:53] <oSoMoN> will need to explicitly pass use_gtk3=true if we want gtk3 on all arches
[11:15]  * Trevinho calls the day... See you tomorrow
[11:18] <willcooke> good night Trevinho, good moring kenvandine
[11:18] <kenvandine> good morning
[11:19] <Trevinho> Oh what an exchange 😅
[11:20] <seb128> night Trevinho
[11:20] <seb128> hey kenvandine
[11:20] <davmor2> meh sorry about that added the vpn only it sent all resources via the vpn and so shutdown networking to all apps woohoo :(
[11:32] <jbicha> kenvandine: good morning, I pushed all from the ubuntu-desktop-gnome PPA into artful directly
[11:32] <jbicha> I guess we can delete the zesty packages in that PPA now?
[11:34] <kenvandine> jbicha, leave them for now
[11:34] <kenvandine> i'm not on artful yet :)
[11:35] <seb128> what packages are we talking about?
[11:35] <kenvandine> gnome-shell and goa
[11:35] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ubuntu-desktop-gnome/+packages
[11:36] <kenvandine> jbicha, oh, did you upload goa?
[11:36] <kenvandine> i can do that
[11:36] <jbicha> it's mostly just dropping misc universe deps to suggests to make the mir easier
[11:36] <seb128> those changes look good yeah
[11:36] <jbicha> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/artful-changes/2017-April/000313.html
[11:37] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-online-accounts/3.24.0-0ubuntu2
[11:37] <kenvandine> oh, i must have missed it when skimming the change mail :)
[11:37] <kenvandine> jbicha, thanks!
[11:37] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.24.1-0ubuntu3
[11:38] <jbicha> some of the deps we'll add back later but they weren't required for gnome-shell to work minimally
[11:40] <kenvandine> seb128, i assume we want to stick with the ubuntu font by default right?
[11:40] <seb128> kenvandine, I think so
[11:41] <kenvandine> good
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, ok, just copied your chromium updates now
[12:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: What will be the value of XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP in 17.10?
[12:28] <jbicha> for now, I believe it would just be "GNOME", is there a reason it should be different?
[12:35] <seb128> GunnarHj, what jbicha said
[12:36] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: Nope, I have no own thoughts. Just wanted to have it confirmed. Thanks!
[12:36] <seb128> yw!
[12:36] <seb128> brb
[12:42] <davmor2> so cold infact we have snow right now
[12:43] <kenvandine> hey davmor2
[12:44] <davmor2> hey kenvandine
[12:45] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, thanks!
[12:49] <kenvandine> is anyone running artful yet?
[12:50] <jbicha> kenvandine: I put it in a VBox yesterday; "sudo do-release-upgrade -d" works now
[12:52] <kenvandine_> jbicha, cool
[12:52] <kenvandine_> damn...
[13:21] <jbicha> seb128: could you subscribe Desktop Bugs to caribou, gdm3, gjs, gnome-control-center, gnome-shell, mutter ?
[13:21] <jbicha> and fuse-exfat and exfat-utils for LP: #1649537
[13:22] <ogra_> were patent issues with extfat before (we tried to ship it on the phone and were denied)
[13:22] <davmor2> seb128, Laney, jbicha: any ideas on why gnome would be using 212 MB of ram for gnome software when as far as I can tell it's closed?  I'm assuming the dash is keeping it open would that be a good guess?
[13:22] <ogra_> *werent there
[13:22] <seb128> jbicha, can do, at least for the first line, need to look at those exfat ones not sure if we want to maintain that stack
[13:23] <seb128> davmor2, it's acting as a service
[13:23] <seb128> so can notify you about firmware updates and such
[13:23] <davmor2> ouch
[13:23] <jbicha> gnome-software is always running in the background, it helps it start up faster :|
[13:24] <seb128> was the same under unity
[13:26] <davmor2> so of the 5.5GB of memory being utilised currently gnome-shell is using just shy of 400MB claws is using 350 but is syncing a lot of mail, Chrome is using more than on unity but a similar enough amount to not worry about, gnome-software 221.9 MB now and evo calendar factory is using 120MB
[13:40] <willcooke> It's snowing!
[13:42] <willcooke> ..and stopped
[14:12] <mitya57> Can someone please top-approve my no-change MP https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/indicator-applet/libpanel-applet3/+merge/323131 so that Bileto allows me to publish it?
[14:12] <mitya57> seb128, can you please? ^^
[14:12] <seb128> mitya57, done
[14:13] <mitya57> thanks!
[14:52] <davmor2> willcooke: oh ffs and app you open that is linked to an indicator of some sort keeps that apps memory footprint open and slowly leaks memory so gnome-calander is now at 373.6 MB
[14:52] <willcooke> wow
[14:54] <davmor2> willcooke: oh wait no, it was syncing again dropped of the face of the earth now...that was scary for a second
[14:55] <willcooke> phew
[14:56] <davmor2> hmmmm gnome software at 225.3 MB and tracker-extract is at 224.6 MB
[15:23] <davmor2> meh wth why are there foldery type things for system tools and sundry that list more apps in the apps view of the dash
[15:23] <davmor2> why are there only 2 categories
[15:33] <davmor2> Laney, seb128: Okay I'm confused on this.  K3b shows in the dash and in gnome-software, krita however only shows in gnome-software why would that be?
[15:36] <Laney> not sure
[15:40] <davmor2> I'm looking for others to see if there is anything common with them
[15:41] <davmor2> Laney: blender does it too
[15:41] <Laney> are you talking about gnome-shell?
[15:41] <Laney> snap or deb?
[15:41] <davmor2> I'm wondering if it is that the dash doesn't understand snaps and the snap is shown in the list first in gnome-software
[15:42] <davmor2> Laney: yeap I only have gnome now :)
[15:42] <Laney> ok, well I don't think it's called the dash in shell
[15:42]  * kenvandine wonders what it is called :)
[15:42] <Laney> and try installing the deb, then you have some information
[15:42] <kenvandine> activities overview?
[15:43] <davmor2> Laney: people refer to it as the dash in gnome videos so that was my assumption
[15:45] <Laney> I think the launcher is the dash and the dash is the overview, in which you search
[15:45] <Laney> ICBW though
[15:45] <kenvandine> that could be
[15:45] <kenvandine> we need a unity -> gnome-shell cheat sheet :)
[15:45] <davmor2> Laney: ah yes you are right they shoe the overview but discuss the dash which is the launcher
[15:46] <davmor2> man this is gonna get confusing
[15:46] <Laney> anyway
[15:46] <Laney> what is in $XDG_DATA_DIRS for you?
[15:46] <Laney> I think that should have something about snap
[15:47] <davmor2> I have the rocketchat-client snap installed and that shows up fine in the overview, but I think the fall over is when you don't have either snap or deb installed but both are available
[15:48] <davmor2> installed krita.deb and now it shows in the overview
[15:48] <xnox> Trevinho, sometime on the upgrade to zesty or to artful, tap to click got disabled.
[15:49] <davmor2> be right back need to reboot for nvidia blob install
[15:49] <xnox> Upgraded to the 2730 bileto ppa and amazon webapp came back again.... *grumble* do we not remember that people removed it, still?!
[15:49] <xnox> otherwise things look and work good.
[15:49] <xnox> Trevinho, can we release the ticket? =)
[15:51] <Laney> davmor2 doesn't respond to questions
[15:54] <davmor2> and back
[15:56] <Laney> try logging in under X instead of Wayland
[16:02] <willcooke> xnox, re: Amazon web app - I don't think we did remove that.  I think it remained even after we turned off dash searches by default.
[16:03] <willcooke> I'm going through my emails to try and find a record of that decision now...
[16:15] <davmor2> Laney: so where the hell do you switch from one to the other?
[16:16] <Laney> the cog at gdm
[16:17] <davmor2> Laney: nope I see Gnome and Gnome Classic no other options
[16:17] <Laney> not GNOME on Wayland?
[16:18] <davmor2> Laney: I'll pick it up again tomorrow
[16:18] <davmor2> willcooke: I assume the logo will change to an ubuntu one and away from the Shazam look alikey one right :D
[16:19] <Laney> well for the record I think the problem is XDG_DATA_DIRS not containing the snapd entry
[16:19] <davmor2> Laney: might be as I say though I'll pick it up in the morning
[16:21] <Laney> as you wish
[16:22] <willcooke> davmor2, yeah I imagine so
[16:45]  * oSoMoN is done with bug triaging for today
[16:48] <willcooke> night oSoMoN
[16:51] <oSoMoN> have a good one willcooke
[16:52] <jbicha> seb128: we'll probably drop the help:ubuntu-help patches now, LP: #1686267
[16:53] <jbicha> I think that was partly why GunnarHj was asking about XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP earlier
[16:54] <GunnarHj> It was. :)
[16:57] <seb128> jbicha, if GunnarHj is fine with it, sure
[17:01] <willcooke> g'night all, dinner time


[09:23] <rmg51> Morning
[11:10] <lazyPower> mornin o/
[11:20] <JonathanD> Morning.
[11:27] <lazyPower> ChinnoDog: i was giving some serious thought to your dilemma with ruby lastnight
[11:27] <lazyPower> ChinnoDog: have you considered using a container to isolate the dependencies? Be it docker, or LXC?
[12:13] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[12:18] <lazyPower> mornin teddy
[12:49] <teddy-dbear> o/
[14:38] <ChinnoDog> lazyPower: I don't know anything about dependencies in Ruby. If it works in irb then this is a weechat problem, right?
[14:38] <lazyPower> possibly, i'm not that familar with how weechat is contstructed.
[14:38] <lazyPower> *constructed


[06:46] <zipper> I found this hilarious song on the internet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxEweP2TiMk
[06:46] <zipper> and I want it to share it with a south african guy
[06:46] <zipper> but he's much older than me
[06:46] <zipper> and I really respect him and would not want to piss him off
[06:46] <zipper> Is that song offensive in SA?
[06:48] <zipper> "Spitting Image - I've Never Met A Nice South African"
[07:51] <chesedo> zipper: well, it stereotypes both blacks and whites negatively... seems to me like some ausie trying to be funny... then again from the comments I see that the video is older than I am, so maybe i am just not getting it...
[07:53] <zipper> chesedo: My logic is that if both are steroetyped then it's ok, no?
[07:55] <zipper> chesedo: The video is just funny imo
[07:55] <zipper> That there are no nice south africans
[07:55] <zipper> but it's apertheid satire
[08:51] <chesedo> whatever rocks your boat...
[08:55] <chesedo> as a south african, i just know that a most of us are hoping for the day when fellow south africans do not see color as the first thing when they look at others and then drawing dividing lines based on the color they see
[09:39] <zipper> chesedo: Based on your reaction I should probably keep that video away from south africans
[09:40] <chesedo> zipper: good idea... from most at least :D
[09:42] <chesedo> there is one thing that all south africans have in common - being proud of being South African
[09:42] <chesedo> so i guess we like to think of ourself as being nice too ;)
[09:43] <zipper> The song does say that south africans don't have a sense of humour.
[09:43] <zipper> I guess they're right about that
[09:43]  * zipper hides
[09:43] <zipper> LOL
[09:43] <zipper> chesedo: LOL I don't mean to offend. I'll stfu now
[15:15] <chesedo> QA: tell zipper "LOL, no problem man :D"
[15:15] <QA> chesedo: Okay, I'll tell zipper on freenode


[09:31] <alan_g> duflu: I saw camako's comment about mir_window_type_popover. The design doc says "The popup type was previously called Menu" which doesn't match the comments in our header. Do you have an opinion on the correct name?
[09:31] <duflu> alan_g: It appears I missed that. So no opinion
[09:31] <duflu> yet
[09:32] <alan_g> The description of https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/no-window-type-overlay/+merge/314749
[09:33] <duflu> alan_g: Traditionally in toolkits there have always been multiple separate menu types (which helps with behaviour and animations)... popup != dropdown
[09:34] <duflu> alan_g: Sounds like it belongs in a different MP anyway
[09:35] <duflu> Or three different menu classes: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#idm140200472629520
[09:35] <alan_g> Sure, I was tempted to just do away with mir_window_type_popover (which is trivial) but then wondered if that was a good direction.
[09:35] <duflu> alan_g: I'm pretty sure we need to separate them because decoration and animation may be different
[09:35] <alan_g> "Examples of popups include menus, combo boxes, walkthrough hints, and popovers" (Mir and Unity: Surfaces, input, and displays (v0.3)_
[09:36] <duflu> Oh dear
[09:36] <duflu> Yes a combo box may be a popover and may be similar to a menu
[09:36] <alan_g> But at the moment mir_window_type_popover and menu are synonyms
[09:37] <duflu> alan_g: I think it's an interesting question but not a blocker for that particular MP
[09:37] <duflu> which just landed
[09:38] <alan_g> That MP landed. I was wondering how best to sort out mir_window_type_popover/menu which is also wrong.
[09:39] <duflu> alan_g: This is why display servers generally don't get involved in toolkit design :)
[09:40] <alan_g> I guess a toolkit designer/user would be the best to ask. ;)
[09:41] <alan_g> duflu: thanks for the chat. At least I know there isn't an easy right solution.
[09:41] <duflu> alan_g: I know we need to distinguish the different menu types. That's all
[09:42] <duflu> I think I know anyway. Maybe we need a subtype
[09:44] <alan_g> I'll see what attente thinks when he wakes up
[09:49] <duflu> cimi: zesty Unity8 now has the new input rate logic. Feels a bit nicer but we're not finished yet
[09:51] <duflu> Although I would like to get a kernel fix for the usbhid regression....
[10:18] <hikiko> hey Trevinho
[10:18] <hikiko> ping :)
[10:19] <hikiko> here?
[10:21] <hikiko> I think there's a problem with the design you suggest in the gcc review: if I use the tool, unity won't switch profile in real-time but in next reboot
[10:21] <hikiko> :s/gcc/ucc
[10:22] <hikiko> also, if the user modifies the lowgfx profile, he wont have the default settings anymore
[10:23] <hikiko> next restart*
[10:24] <hikiko> also that profile is generated by the .ini isn't it?
[10:26] <hikiko> the tool runs once at startup as far as I understand it
[10:28] <hikiko> I probably should change unity to use that tool as well, but we still need to switch to lowgfx instantly
[10:29] <hikiko> and overwriting the settings seems to be the easiest way
[10:42]  * alan_g wonders how that's relevant to #ubuntu-mir
[10:45] <hikiko> oh noes
[10:45] <hikiko> LOL
[10:45] <hikiko> sorry....
[10:45] <hikiko> I thought I am in #ubuntu-desktop
[10:45] <hikiko> thanks alan_g :p
[10:46] <alan_g> hikiko: how's it going in U7 land?
[10:49] <hikiko> alan_g, fine :) I am trying to finish all the remaining priority tasks to focus on porting chromium on mir
[10:51] <alan_g> A great way to start the new year. (I hope)
[14:04] <attente> alan_g: hey. gtk does differentiate between the different popup types when creating those widgets, so if it helps you to differentiate between them, we could pass them to you: https://developer.gnome.org/gdk3/stable/gdk3-Windows.html#GdkWindowTypeHint
[14:06] <alan_g> attente: I'm not sure how much it would help us (it is really unclear if Mir needs different behaviour). But if a shell is doing server-side decorations it would likely matter.