[00:08] <rostam> HI I would like upon ssh to my ubuntu 12.04, the /etc/profile to be sourced, is there a way to configured this on any login? thx
[00:11] <Daviey> zul: hey
[00:11] <sarnold> rostam: if you're using bash, that should just happen automatically...
[00:13] <rostam> sarnold: that is what I thought but it does not,  I have to manually do . /etc/profile so the changes to take effect??
[00:14] <sarnold> rostam: are you changes in /etc/profile over-ridden by settings in ~/.bashrc or ~/.*profile files?
[00:20] <rostam> sarnold, it does not override that I am sure...
[00:22] <rostam> sarnold there is a specific profile which I have placed it in the /etc/profile.d once the /etc/profile is source that file also gets source
[01:00] <zul> Daviey:  still around?
[07:39] <frojnd> Hi there.
[07:39] <cfhowlett> frojnd, greetings
[07:39] <frojnd> I have a huge problem. Somehow my IP is in /etc/hosts.deny
[07:39] <cfhowlett> d'oh!
[07:39] <frojnd> even if I remove that entry it keeps coming back :) so I can't ssh to it with another temrinal
[07:40] <frojnd> luckily I'm still logged in by one terminal
[07:40] <frojnd> would it helped if I put my Ip in hosts.allow?
[07:41] <frojnd> but would like to know how my home ip ended up in hosts.deny in the first place
[07:44] <frojnd> cfhowlett: any ideas? :=
[07:44] <frojnd> :)
[07:45] <cfhowlett> frojnd, sorry, no.  I'm silent on areas outside my range of knowledge --- i.e. most server problems.  As we seem to be the only ones awake here, perhaps moving the query to #ubuntu might be in order.
[07:52] <frojnd> nice idea
[07:57] <frojnd> noone there either
[07:57] <frojnd> :)
[08:32] <frojnd> It was denyhosts
[08:32] <frojnd> interestingly
[08:33] <cfhowlett> frojnd, so how ??
[08:35] <frojnd> it was the configuraton file. I wasn't careful when I was updating and in /etc/denyhosts wasn't set PURGE_DENY
[09:05] <jamespage> zul, you needed a allow-stderr restriction in tests/control
[09:06] <jamespage> otherwise stderr output == test failure
[10:48] <yolanda> jamespage, smoser, zul, what do you think about that? https://code.launchpad.net/~yolanda.robla/keystone/icehouse_fix-distribution/+merge/198275
[12:15] <jamespage> yolanda, how would you feel about targetting that to upstream first?  I'd like to know that there is appetite to accept this type of header data as normal before we start adding patches to all of the packages.
[12:16] <yolanda> jamespage, ok, what's the process to send some patch upstream? just submit like a code change to gerrit?
[12:16] <jamespage> yolanda, yes
[12:16] <yolanda> should i create some bug first?
[12:17] <jamespage> yolanda, sounds good
[12:17] <yolanda> ok
[12:17] <jamespage> people can then comment on the bug
[12:17] <jamespage> yolanda, that approach means it can be overridden by configuration right?
[12:17] <yolanda> jamespage, yes, if you add this section to config, it will be overriden
[12:18] <yolanda> it only shows platform.dist() on default
[12:18] <jamespage> if so it would also be nice if there was a way to disable adding the header altogether
[12:19] <jamespage> Distribution = None
[12:19] <jamespage> or something similar
[12:23] <yolanda> ok
[12:23] <yolanda> i'll do some tests with it and then send upstream
[12:28] <jamespage> zul: https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/cinder/python-six-1.4.1/+merge/198378
[12:34] <jamespage> zul, working through some neutron bugs today - might do an 0ubuntu2 later
[12:35] <zul> jamespage:  can you look at that horizon merge from yesterday as well
[12:35] <jamespage> zul, oh - yes of course
[13:07] <Daviey> zul: you wanted me?
[13:08] <zul> Daviey:  yeah when you get a sec can you do a source new review for me?
[13:10] <Daviey> zul: oslo.rootwrap or swift-bench?
[13:28] <zul> Daviey:  both
[13:30] <Daviey> zul: Ok, should be able to do it in about 1.5 hours.  Tied up in meetings until then.
[13:30] <zul> Daviey:  cool thanks..
[13:45] <zul> jamespage:  horizon is ok?
[14:29] <smoser> yolanda, that looks good
[14:30] <yolanda> sent upstream
[14:30] <mdeslaur> does anyone know how to create an explicit deny ACE in samba?
[14:30] <smoser> is there any reason you wouldnt want to default to something like '/'.join(platform.dist)
[14:30] <smoser> maybe not.
[14:32] <smoser> yolanda, the only othe rcomment i have is why force 'X-' prefix ?
[14:32] <smoser> as opposed to letting that be configured.
[14:33] <yolanda> smoser, normally in http all extra headers are prepended with X- , right?
[14:33] <yolanda> i just tried to send X-Distribution in config file but it was transformed to X_Distribution
[14:36] <smoser> well that sucks.
[14:36] <smoser> i understand all "extra headers" being normally prefixed with 'X-'
[14:37] <smoser> but don't know who's definition of 'extra' is right.  if you allowed thatin the config, then the provider can choose to put 'X-' or not put 'X-'.
[14:38] <yolanda> smoser, but then i'll need to replace the _ with - in headers, or they won't look right. And if some people just wanted to send a header with _ ?
[14:38] <yolanda> maybe just look for starting X_ and transform to X-
[14:58] <yolanda> smoser, jamespage, what do you think about the X- headers then?
[14:58] <smoser> yolanda, i'm fine to let upstream discuss it and take it either way.
[14:58] <smoser> if it were my choice, i'd not want to force any restrictions on the headers.
[14:58] <smoser> but i dont think its a very big deal.
[14:58] <smoser> annoying that config format squashes your '-'
[14:59] <yolanda> smoser, yes, my first try was to don't force the X- and give freedom
[14:59] <yolanda> let's see if people add comments there
[14:59] <smoser> someone (me) might do it :)
[15:00] <gyre007> can someone tell me if Precise LTS has ipvs support in kernel ?
[15:04] <gyre007> basically lvs support is what Im after
[15:09] <jrwren> gyre007: signs point to no: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6551563/
[15:09] <gyre007> oh no
[15:10] <jrwren> you can do lxc.
[15:10] <jrwren> https://www.stgraber.org/2012/05/04/lxc-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts/
[15:10] <gyre007> not really...can I ?
[15:11] <gyre007> but I will need an image which has kernel with ipvs support compiled in
[15:11] <jrwren> afaik, lxc does not use ipvs or lvs kernel mods
[15:11] <gyre007> I just actually installed keepalived on KXC
[15:11] <jrwren> instead it uses namespaces and cgroups, which are newer and better.
[15:11] <gyre007> *LXC
[15:12] <gyre007> and I get the http://askubuntu.com/questions/388768/lvs-support-lts-12-04
[15:12] <jrwren> but I am not an expert in this area.
[15:12] <gyre007> LXC runs of the host's KErnel AFAIK
[15:12] <jrwren> yes, there is only one kernel with lxc
[15:12] <gyre007> if host's Kernel' doesnt have lvs support you're screwed
[15:12] <jrwren> so you really want to run keepalived ?
[15:12] <gyre007> so am I :-)
[15:12] <gyre007> well yeah
[15:13] <gyre007> whats wrong with that ? :)
[15:13] <jrwren> nothing, i'm just trying to understand what you want :)
[15:13] <gyre007> basically I need something which will give me vrrp
[15:13] <gyre007> and that's keepalived
[15:13] <gyre007> but it needs lvs
[15:13] <jrwren> you running routing protocols?
[15:14] <gyre007> Im trying to set up HA load balancer...
[15:14] <gyre007> with auto failover
[15:14] <gyre007> and keepalived looks like a pretty good candidate
[15:14] <jrwren> cool.
[15:15] <gyre007> well not really :-) if the kernel doesn't support it then....
[15:15] <jrwren> vrrpd or ucarp?
[15:15] <gyre007> I dont think I need vrrpd
[15:15] <gyre007> keepalived is actually filling the role of vrrpd right ?
[15:16] <jrwren> i'm suggesting either of those instead of ipvs
[15:16] <jrwren> i don't know keepalived or ipvs very well.
[15:16] <gyre007> but can keepalived work with those ?
[15:16] <jrwren> I think they would be used instead of keepalived
[15:16] <gyre007> mm
[15:17] <jrwren> i wish I knew someone esperienced with them to ask which to use, but I don't.
[15:33] <arie_kiyoshi> hello guys
[15:38] <zul> jamespage:  ping...horizon review?
[15:45] <stgraber> hallyn_: hey, did you ever get sarnold to re-check lxc-user-nic? I'm getting tired of manually setting the setuid bit everytime I update LXC :)
[16:04] <jamespage> yolanda, how about taking a look at active/active rabbitmq across the openstack charms
[16:04] <jamespage> its on the blueprint and is an important delivery this cycle
[16:04] <jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-openstack-charms
[16:05] <yolanda> wow, sounds challenging!
[16:05] <jamespage> yolanda, oh - and merges
[16:05] <yolanda> yes, i was taking a look at merges right now :)
[16:05] <jamespage> I'm sure there are still some on the list - stuff lands in debian all the time!
[16:07] <hallyn_> stgraber: not since I pulled some code out
[16:07] <beatstreet> I have an ubuntu server that keeps locking up and requires reboot to get it back online
[16:07] <hallyn_> sarnold: ^
[16:08] <beatstreet> what's the best log to look up
[16:13] <zul> jamespage:  waitress and bs4 have been promoted fyi
[16:16] <hallyn_> waitress?
[16:20] <zul> hallyn_:  python-waitress -  dependency for python-webtest - dependency of keystone
[16:21] <jamespage> zul, marvellous
[16:23] <zul> jamespage:  ill wait for it to get out of proposed and run boom
[16:24] <jamespage> zul, how are we on the rest of icehouse-1?
[16:25] <jamespage> glance - dep wait
[16:25] <zul> checking glance
[16:25] <zul> jamespage:  argh..
[16:26] <jamespage> zul, ceilometer - rebuilding now - bust on webtest
[16:27] <zul> jamespage:  glance rebuilding now
[16:27] <caribou> smoser: I saw that you mentionned merges during the meeting, any server specific list of merges or merge-o-matic is the source ?
[16:27] <caribou> smoser: I started to look at those & a few ftbs
[16:28] <zul> jamespage:  btw https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/horizon/2014.1.b1/+merge/197957
[16:28] <jamespage> zul, doing it now
[16:28] <zul> jamespage:  thanks
[16:30] <smoser> caribou, i didn't think anyone would call me on that :)
[16:30]  * smoser goes to look for some stuff
[16:30] <smoser> grep-merges is helpful.
[16:31] <smoser> caribou, but yeah, generally merge-o-matic is your friend there.
[16:31] <smoser> i could look for something that looked "easy", but i dont hink you need something terribly easy.
[16:34] <caribou> smoser: I've done a couple already
[16:34] <caribou> smoser: I helped with crash & libpng only to find out that the original person responsible had done it already
[16:34] <jamespage> zul, it was still missing static assets, so I re-did them and pushed, and uploaded
[16:34]  * smoser should probably do mine.
[16:34] <Daviey> zul: oslo.rootwrap, where did the orig tarball come from?
[16:34] <smoser> caribou, yeah, its always best to try to ping the last touch'd
[16:35] <caribou> smoser: I'll look around and see what I can find
[16:35] <Daviey> jamespage: binNEW on ceilometer?
[16:35] <jamespage> ?
[16:35] <Daviey> jamespage: binNEW on ceilometer-agent-notification ?
[16:36] <jamespage> yeah - thats OK
[16:36] <zul> Daviey:  pypy
[16:36] <jamespage> its new this cycle
[16:36] <zul> Daviey:  er...pypi
[16:37] <zul> Daviey:  we know the upstream author pretty well https://pypi.python.org/pypi/oslo.rootwrap/1.0.0
[16:38] <Daviey> zul: right, but it makes it quite hard to verify the source when the only hint i get is "Source: https://github.com/openstack/oslo-incubator"
[16:39] <zul> Daviey:  argh i need to fix that up
[16:39] <Daviey> zul: Fany adding a get-orig-source?
[16:39] <Daviey> fancy*
[16:39] <zul> Daviey:  sure i can do that
[16:41] <Daviey> zul: ok, rejected that.. with that change (& copyright entry) happy to accept
[16:41] <zul> Daviey:  ok gimme a sec dont go anywhere
[16:44] <beatstreet> nsk
[16:44] <zul> Daviey:  just uploaded
[16:45] <zul> jamespage:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glance/1:2014.1~b1-0ubuntu1/+build/5317701
[16:52] <hallyn_> win 31
[16:53] <jamespage> zul, rebuilding neutron as well - webtest dependency issues
[16:54] <jamespage> zul, so i think
[16:54] <jamespage> cinder: done
[16:54] <jamespage> ceilometer: done
[16:54] <jamespage> heat: done
[16:54] <jamespage> glance: done
[16:54] <jamespage> nova: done
[16:55] <jamespage> neutron: inprogress
[16:55] <jamespage> horizon: done
[16:55] <jamespage> keystone: done
[16:55] <zul> ack
[16:55] <jamespage> swift: nothing todo right?
[16:55] <jamespage> zul, ^^
[16:56] <zul> jamespage:  well they just did a rc this morning
[16:56] <jamespage> urgh
[16:56] <zul> i noticed
[16:56] <zul> so gimme a sec
[16:56] <jamespage> ack
[16:56] <hallyn_> stgraber: bug 1254338   can you see any downside to detecting kernel version in /etc/init/lxc-net.conf and donig the iptables rule for veth checksum offloading if needed?
[16:58] <stgraber> hallyn_: in theory there will be a small CPU overhead in doing that when it's not needed (recent dhcp client) but no, I'm not opposed to it. If we do it, I think it'd probably be easier to just always add that rule (like I believe libvirt does).
[16:58] <zul> jamespage:  actually its milestone proposed...so i would rather wait til thursday for that one
[16:58] <jamespage> zul, after christmas we should get trove out of -proposed and into CI as well
[16:58] <jamespage> we don't need to MIR it yet
[16:58] <zul> jamespage:  or before
[16:58] <jamespage> but it should at least work :-)
[16:58] <zul> in theory yes :)
[16:58] <hallyn_> smoser: bug 1090223, maybe it's time to request vmbuilder be pulled from the archive
[16:59] <zul> hallyn_:  yes please :)
[16:59] <hallyn_> stgraber: well id on't really want to end up with 200 copies of that rule though
[16:59] <hallyn_> hm.  i wish iptables was a little more useful :)
[16:59] <hallyn_> zul: how do we go about that?
[17:00] <zul> hallyn_:  open up a bug and ask the archive admin to do it
[17:00] <stgraber> hallyn_: isn't libvirt adding an interface-specific rule?
[17:00] <zul> that reminds me we should remove xcp as well
[17:00] <stgraber> hallyn_: yeah, it's:
[17:00] <stgraber>     5  1656 CHECKSUM   udp  --  *      virbr0  <IP_ADDRESS>/0            <IP_ADDRESS>/0            udp dpt:68 CHECKSUM fill
[17:01] <hallyn_> stgraber: ok, cool.  so i guess i'll add that in trust, but i don't wanna sru
[17:01] <hallyn_> zul: open bug against vmbulider itself, or against ubuntu?
[17:01] <stgraber> hallyn_: yeah, that's fine. I expect it'll mostly hit people upgrading from 12.04 anyway
[17:01] <hallyn_> smoser: any objection to that (removing vmbuilder from archive)
[17:02] <zul> vmbuilder itself
[17:02] <hallyn_> stgraber: and those cloud-archive people zul likes to cultivate
[17:02] <zul> hallyn_:  meh :)
[17:02] <hallyn_> zul: <sigh> i wonder if we should firrst see if any users want to fork+maintain it
[17:02] <hallyn_> nah, we can always add it back i guess
[17:03] <zul> hallyn_:  i dont think anyone wants to maintain it
[17:03] <zul> too buggy, too old
[17:03] <Daviey> hallyn_: I'd like to see it proposed on ubuntu-server / ubuntu-devel first.
[17:04] <Daviey> Some crazy people use it.. they should get the chance to step up and maintain it :)
[17:04] <Daviey> (unlikely)
[17:04] <hallyn_> jodh: btw, github pull requests for cgmanager and lxc get misfiled in my mail.  until i fix that, if anything urgent looks like it's being ignored pls just yell at me
[17:05] <hallyn_> Daviey: poor slobs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vm-builder/+bug/1090223 are losing data
[17:05] <hallyn_> but, ok.
[17:08] <Daviey> hallyn_: you make a good point.. but it seems this will continue to happen for the foreseeable future if this is removed anyway.  I guess someone should fix it.. /me hides. :)
[17:08]  * hallyn_ throws the broken code and a copy of vim under the blanket Daviey is hiding under
[17:08] <hallyn_> "you'll need those" :)
[17:09]  * Daviey wonders where soren is hiding.
[17:10] <smoser> hallyn_, i have no such objection.
[17:12] <hallyn_> best to have it out before trusty is released, i think
[17:15] <Daviey> hallyn_: your right.  How about raise a bug for removal, lets do it.. then state the fact on the ML's and suggest it could be re-introduced with a reliable offer to maintain it.
[17:17] <hallyn_> Daviey: too late, sent the email.
[17:17] <jamespage> zul, urgh - testing from the trunk testing ppa; nova can't connect to libvirt
[17:17] <hallyn_> 'll open the bug tomorrow
[17:18] <jodh> hallyn_: ack, thanks.
[17:19] <zul> jamespage:  log?
[17:19] <jamespage> zul, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6552155/
[17:19] <zul> jamespage:  why permission denied?
[17:30] <hallyn_> stgraber: did i do anything stupid here?  http://people.canonical.com/~serge/lxc-dhcp.debdiff
[17:30]  * hallyn_ fires up a precise host to test on
[17:34] <hallyn_> jodh: oh hey, we now have the 'official' github tree at github.com/cgmanager/cgmanager.  probably best to start doing merge requests against it
[17:35] <hallyn_> github.com/hallyn/cgmanager will become my devel archive, so i can push prettier commits to the real tree :)
[17:36] <jodh> right. I have got one o/s pull request (https://github.com/hallyn/cgmanager/pull/3). Not sure why that's showing up against your branch though as I had thought I'd used the new official branch.
[17:37] <hallyn_> jodh: also, the realpath_escapes() fixup, i think it's better to do it the other way
[17:37] <hallyn_> so always have the actual raising of errors be in the top level function
[17:37] <hallyn_> so we don't have to guess whether the fn we called already did it
[17:37] <stgraber> hallyn_: you probably want a matching -D rule on stop?
[17:38] <hallyn_> stgraber: not sure, i was wondering if it would jsut go away when we delete the device
[17:38] <jodh> hallyn_: yeah, I did wonder about that.
[17:38] <hallyn_> stgraber: oh but i'm using the network not the device :(
[17:39] <stgraber> hallyn_: oh yeah, -o should be passed the interface name
[17:39] <stgraber> hallyn_: and I just checked, iptables doesn't care whether an interface exists or not
[17:39] <stgraber> hallyn_: so you'll need to clear it in stop
[17:39] <hallyn_> drat
[17:39] <hallyn_> well then i don't need the -o
[17:40] <stgraber> you don't need it but you should have it
[17:40] <stgraber> otherwise iptables will try to fill the checksum on all interfaces
[17:41] <stgraber> what we want is: iptables $use_iptables_lock -t mangle -A POSTROUTING -o ${LXC_BRIDGE} -p udp -m udp --dport 68 -j CHECKSUM --checksum-fill
[17:41] <stgraber> and the same but -D in stop
[17:41] <hallyn_> stgraber: and the device should be the bridge tiself?
[17:41] <hallyn_> ok
[17:41] <stgraber> hallyn_: right. We can't filter using -d and -s since the DHCP traffic is broadcast, so we need to use -o with LXC_BRIDGE
[17:44] <hallyn_> jodh: so that's the downside of these pull reqeusts :)  I see a whole bunch of commits there.
[17:44] <hallyn_> lemme try and apply them 1-by-1
[17:44] <hallyn_> actually no,
[17:45] <hallyn_> let's see if we can get the pll request aimed at cgmanager/cgmanager :)
[17:47] <hallyn_> jodh: changed my mind again :)  pulling, will move the errors out, and push to the other tree.  thanks!
[17:54] <yolanda> jamespage, what's that neutron plugin doc?
[17:54] <jamespage> yolanda, ideas for how to manage neutron plugins via packaging a little easier
[17:55] <jamespage> zul, b-o-m running
[17:55] <zul> ack
[18:01] <jodh> hallyn_: thank you!
[18:02] <hallyn_> no, thank you :)
[18:37] <jamespage> zul, CA staging should be all up-to-date now
[18:39] <zul> jamespage:
[18:39] <zul> jamespage:  ack
[18:47] <jamespage> zul, OK - all done
[18:47] <jamespage> going to the openstack meeting for beer now
[18:47] <zul> lucky bastard ;)
[18:53] <w0rmie> whats the fonctional difference between dhcp3-server and isc-dhcp-server?
[18:54] <Nomad_> Can anyone help with making my 13.10 .iso into a valid usb bootable image?  I have used YUMI from the pendrivelinux team to make an image but every time I try to install the server just reboots.  If I try to do a rescue or memcheck it tells me /linux/* is missing.  I get the same thing with 12.10 and 13.10 desktop as well.
[18:54] <jpds> w0rmie: $ apt-cache show dhcp3-server
[18:55] <jpds> w0rmie: N: Can't select versions from package 'dhcp3-server' as it is purely virtual
[18:56] <sarnold> Nomad_: just use dd: dd if=/path/to/ubuntu.iso of=/dev/sdg  (or whatever your usb device is, check using dmesg to see what address it is assigned..)
[18:57] <w0rmie> jpds: the problem is that i need to modify /etc/default/dhcp3-server so i don't know really what's its equivalent by using isc-dhcp-server
[18:58] <Nomad_> sarnold: dd the iso to the usb stick?
[18:59] <Nomad_> didn't think that worked straight up
[18:59] <sarnold> Nomad_: it does because the ubuntu ISOs are 'hybrid isos', designed to work that way. it's convenient, especially now that the isos are too large to fit on CDs. hehe.
[19:00] <Nomad_> oh, nice to know
[19:00] <Nomad_> thank you
[19:01] <jpds> w0rmie: It'll be under /etc/dhcp/*
[19:05] <hallyn_> stgraber: uh.  say.  in lxc blueprint, what does this mean?  Update the upstart job to setup the LXC profile as a namespace
[19:06] <stgraber> hallyn_: I think there's an "apparmor" missing in there
[19:07] <stgraber> hallyn_: from what I remember, jjohansen said we'd need to pass some extra flag to apparmor when loading the lxc profile so that it'd allow profile stacking by setting up a new namespace
[19:07] <hallyn_> stgraber: ah, thanks
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7> WARNING       WARNING      WARNING,                       WARNING
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7> WARNING             WARNING              WARNING,     WARNING         WARNING
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7>  YOU MAY BE WATCHED
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7> YOU MAY BE WATCHED
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7>                 YOU MAY BE WATCHED
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7> Do usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!
[19:09] <syfhvbgos7> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?
[19:56] <NBeeuwsaert> Hey, would this be an appropriate place to ask about downloading the messages from one server to another?
[20:13] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: what?
[20:14] <NBeeuwsaert> I need to have one server fetch mail from a user on another server, I was wondering if there was an efficient way to do that without having to set up imap or pop
[20:15] <NBeeuwsaert> (Also if this is the appropriate place for asking that?)
[20:15] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: did you have a look on fetchmail already?
[20:15] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: don't ask to ask!
[20:16] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: but i'm not sure it works without mda
[20:16] <NBeeuwsaert> yeah, but then I'd have to set up dovecot or courier on the server, and that seems excessive
[20:16] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: its not that much :P and you have lots of more experience you could add for your next job request ;)
[20:17] <NBeeuwsaert> Yeah that's true :P
[20:17] <NBeeuwsaert> I Was thinking setting up postfix to use Maildir, and then rsyncing down from the server
[20:17] <err-or> i run fetchmail - postfix - dovecot - thunderbird (or any other imap capable mail-client)
[20:20] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: this one is a good one ;) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixVirtualMailBoxClamSmtpHow
[20:20] <jamespage> zul: everything flushed through to proposed
[20:20] <jamespage> I'll re-run the deploy test I did with those packages
[20:21] <zul> jamespage:  ack
[20:23] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixVirtualMailBoxClamSmtpHowTo sry :P
[20:24] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: arg... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixVirtualMailBoxClamSmtpHowto
[20:26] <NBeeuwsaert> lol did you type those by hand?
[20:28] <err-or> NBeeuwsaert: nope first i forgot to copy the 'to' and entered 'To' manually. don't just copy & paste !! :D
[20:28] <NBeeuwsaert> ok ok :P
[21:12] <NBeeuwsaert> ack, hit a snag
[21:12] <NBeeuwsaert> no permission to put fetchmail on the server
[21:16] <d1n0> i have a ipmipower process consuming 100% cpu, i got a feeling its from a node i didn't delete properly
[21:17] <NBeeuwsaert> just kidding, fetchmail was always there, and nobody can say otherwise >:)
[21:19] <beatstreet> I have an ubuntu server that keeps locking up and requires reboot to get it back online
[21:19] <beatstreet> what's the best log to look up
[21:20] <guntbert> beatstreet: /var/log/syslog has lmost everything
[21:20] <beatstreet> ok
[21:20] <guntbert> *almost
[21:20] <beatstreet> thanks
[21:21] <w0rmie> nfs-commons is installed but no way to symlink /etc/network/if-up.d/mountnfs within /etc/rcS.d/S35mountnfs
[21:21] <w0rmie> i can't find mountnfs in the /etc/network/if-up.d
[21:24] <FunnyLookinHat> Hey - got a quick question for you guys - I'm trying to migrate a ton of files from one server to another ( slow transfer rate, long story ) and I want to run my rsync job only between midnight and 5am... can you think of a clever way to run an rsync for only that specified time period other than cronning a start and kill script ?
[21:28] <NBeeuwsaert> FunnyLookinHat, cron?
[21:28] <NBeeuwsaert> OH wait, I read that weird
[21:29] <NBeeuwsaert> I think rsync has a --time-limit option
[21:30] <sarnold> FunnyLookinHat: if you've got a spare few days to learn about tc, you could keep it running continuously but change the bandwidth allotted to the transfer during 'work' hours so it won't eat so much bandwidth...
[21:33] <FunnyLookinHat> sarnold, already using --bwlimit
[21:33] <FunnyLookinHat> Ooh I see what you mean
[21:40] <w0rmie> nfs-commons is installed but no way to symlink /etc/network/if-up.d/mountnfs within /etc/rcS.d/S35mountnfs
[21:40] <w0rmie> i can't find mountnfs in the /etc/network/if-up.d/ folder
[21:41] <d1n0> Can anyone help with this error: could not access file '334b532c-c71f-483e-8f36-beea1905536d-provider-state': gomaasapi: got error back from server: 401 UNAUTHORIZED
[21:42] <d1n0> I get that when trying to bootstrap the maas
[21:46] <NBeeuwsaert> FunnyLookinHat, Looks like rsync has a "--time-limit" and "--stop-at" option in version 3.1 (with a patch) so if yours feeling upto compiling rsync you could give that a go
[21:46] <FunnyLookinHat> Yeah but it's not built into the rsync I have
[21:46] <FunnyLookinHat> so I just used timeout
[21:46] <FunnyLookinHat> :)
[21:47] <FunnyLookinHat> NBeeuwsaert, timeout <seconds> <command>
[21:47] <FunnyLookinHat> And it just send a kill to the process after the seconds have elapsed :)
[21:47] <NBeeuwsaert> huh I thought that was just for individual transfers, and would fail it if it took too long
[21:52] <igalic> I. Hate. Preseed.
[21:57] <FunnyLookinHat> NBeeuwsaert, Yeah that's what I thought too - but tested and it works  :)
[21:57] <NBeeuwsaert> it won't cut a file off halfway?
[22:39] <w0rmie> is there any way to capture current data on RAM and save it into recoverable image from HDD?
[22:51] <Patrickdk> w0rmie, hibernate?
[23:03] <w0rmie> Patrickdk: thank you for your answer, so can i recuperate the RAM image as a file to store on the HDD and "des-hibernate" it to make it readable?
[23:06] <w0rmie> i'm installing a cluster to execute too much data on my 72GB of RAM so i would to save the current RAM work in order to reload other calculations
[23:08] <sarnold> yikes, that does not sound fun, and not exactly something to try to get the hang of in the middle of an important job..


[00:05] <wrst> Crud missed him good to see new blood
[00:07] <Unit193> You shark.
[00:09] <wrst> Exactly
[00:10] <wrst> Unit193: you alive and all that?
[00:10] <Unit193> Barely.  You?
[00:11] <wrst> Sleepy
[00:11] <wrst> Was out past 10 last night
[00:11] <wrst> May be asleep before 8
[00:11] <Unit193> :o
[00:11] <wrst> I know wild night
[00:14] <wrst> frog: !!!!
[00:28] <wrst> Omnifrog: howdy
[00:29] <Omnifrog> Hi wrst !
[00:29] <Omnifrog> sorry for the inattentiveness. I'm on the air
[00:30] <wrst> No problem I'm just killing time and counting frogs :)
[01:09] <cyberanger> wrst: not sure its new blood
[01:10] <cyberanger> wrst: or counting time killing frogs
[01:11] <cyberanger> Sorry Omnifrog that joke was so bad it made me croak
[01:56] <wrst> Ahh don't remember them at least
[01:56] <wrst> But I don't remember anything


  It was raining for most of Sunday though.
[08:34] <marcustomlinson> hey seb128, weekend was good while it lasted. yours?
[08:35] <seb128> marcustomlinson, it was okish, couldn't do much or really enjou with 37°C
[08:35] <marcustomlinson> oh man, yeah that's shutdown climate
[08:36] <duflu> Morning seb128.  I've had enough in the past that it will be a while on average till more leaks emerge
[08:38] <Laney> moin seb128
[08:38] <Laney> marcustomlinson: good, nice sunny weekend in the park / allotment / pub garden!
[08:39] <jamesh> Forecast says the weather should be fine Tuesday through Friday, and then raining again for the weekend
[08:39] <marcustomlinson> typical
[08:40] <seb128> hey Laney!
[08:43] <jamesh> They're getting reverse waterfalls in the eastern states: https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/1292612567416807424
[08:52] <duflu> Err, yes. An actual reverse waterfall
[08:52] <duflu> Because we're upside down
[10:30] <sil2100> Trevinho: hey! Looking at the verification of libfprint: I see there were some 'unrelated' issues reported in LP: #1881380 - just wanted to make sure: is that a regression? Or was that issue already there and unrelated to the upload?
[10:49] <seb128> bah, unattendeed-upgrade is really annoying, I might just end up uninstalling it
[10:50] <seb128> I'm waiting for 10 minutes now to be able to dpkg -i that update to test it
[10:50] <seb128> there is also no estimate of when it's going to be done and what it's doing
[11:22] <Laney> :(
[14:21] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[14:21] <kenvandine> good morning hellsworth
[14:21] <hellsworth> hey kenvandine i hope you had a nice weekend
[14:21] <kenvandine> i did, hope you did the same
[14:22] <hellsworth> yep slept in the mountains and it was lovely :)
[14:30] <marcustomlinson> hey kenvandine and hellsworth
[14:30] <hellsworth> hi there marcustomlinson
[18:00] <ricotz> hellsworth, hi :)
[18:00] <hellsworth> hi there ricotz
[18:01] <ricotz> while there was gcc10 update I have restarted the libreoffice 7 armhf build -- https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-prereleases/+build/19784228
[18:01] <hellsworth> i'm going to finish the manual test plan today.. so far though LO 7 looks good
[18:01] <ricotz> I am hoping this won't fail on gcc "segfaulting"
[18:01] <hellsworth> fingers crossed
[18:03] <ricotz> hellsworth, regarding 6.4.6~rc2 is went well here https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/11508831/+listing-archive-extra
[18:03] <hellsworth> ok great thanks!
[18:04] <ricotz> hellsworth, did you figure out the yaru icon theme thing?
[18:05] <hellsworth> not yet
[18:05] <ricotz> ok
[18:09] <ricotz> hellsworth, of course there is an ubuntu-groovy-7.0 branch now :)
[18:09] <hellsworth> ok cool thank you for that!!
[18:10] <hellsworth> i'll finish up the testing, update you, and hopfully get a final build going tonight..
[18:11] <ricotz> alrighty :), I probably will be offline by then
[18:46] <hellsworth> Laney: all of the http links (like the one here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/407/builds/201243/downloads) go to a 404.. do you know who would maintain these pages?
[20:00] <hellsworth> kenvandine: would you pretty please run some autopkgtest links for me? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WDcGQ6hdcF/
[20:01] <kenvandine> hellsworth: of course
[20:01] <hellsworth> so many armhf failures!
[20:01] <hellsworth> thanks
[20:02] <kenvandine> hellsworth: done
[20:02] <hellsworth> +1
[20:02]  * kenvandine suddenly want a groovy shirt styled after austin powers :)
[20:06] <marcustomlinson> :)
[21:38] <hellsworth> kenvandine: could you please launch some libreoffice 6.4.6 for focal autopkgtests for me? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/j4KrHs4QXP/
[21:39] <kenvandine> Sure
[21:40] <kenvandine> https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=focal&arch=amd64&package=libreoffice&ppa=hellsworth/libreoffice6&trigger=libreoffice/1:6.4.6~rc2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[21:41] <hellsworth> yep looks right
[21:41] <hellsworth> did it not work?
[21:41] <kenvandine> whoops
[21:41] <kenvandine> copy paste bug
[21:41] <hellsworth> oh wrong window :)
[21:41] <kenvandine> You submitted an invalid request: libreoffice/1:6.4.6~rc2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> is not published in PPA hellsworth/libreoffice6 focal
[21:41] <hellsworth> oh dangit it's that darn publishing time again
[21:41] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:42] <hellsworth> i need things to be instantaneous :)
[21:42] <kenvandine> i'll try again after dinner :)
[21:42] <hellsworth> ok thanks so much :)
[21:42]  * kenvandine goes back to the wok
[21:48] <hellsworth> actually kenvandine don't bother launching those tests.. i thought 6.4.6 was released already but it should be later this week, so no use in running the tests just yet.
[22:16] <kenvandine> Ok


[15:31] <sarnold> good morning
[15:31] <eslerm> good morning o/
[15:31] <sarnold> probably I should have asked last week if we were going to have this particular meeting :)
[15:33] <eslerm> only thing I have to report is that Security will pickup speexdsp after rok-toolkit is reviewed
[15:34] <eslerm> there is a lot of time in the cycle, and it will be best if the same reviewer can do both
[15:35] <eslerm> s/a lot of/enough
[15:39] <sarnold> heya slyon, since it's just eslerm and I we hadn't bothered starting the meeting
[15:39] <sarnold> slyon: depending on if you're actually around or if this is just your client auto-joining..
[15:39] <slyon> hey!
[15:39] <slyon> I was distracted, sorry.
[15:39] <slyon> But considering many are sprinting, and there's not a lot on the agenda, I'd suggest we skip today's meeting?
[15:40] <sarnold> wfm
[15:40] <eslerm> +1
[15:40] <slyon> I just briefly checked our queues and it's looking pretty empty
[15:40] <sarnold> nice
[15:41] <sarnold> .. at least I hope it isn't the outrush before a tsunami
[15:42] <slyon> Yeah, let's hope it stays calm like this.
[15:43] <slyon> component-mismatches don't show anything new, but there's still some time until import freeze :)


[00:41] <Jimi__Hendrix> Chipzz define bootstrapping...and i have till march to do this...so ive got plenty of time...
[01:36] <slangasek> lamont: hmm, why did bind9's binary packages all get fatter in jaunty?
[01:36] <slangasek> or should I be directing that question at kees/doko?
[01:42] <lamont> slangasek: define "fatter"
[01:43] <slangasek> lamont: bind9-host is 30% bigger in jaunty than intrepid, with no difference in file contents
[01:43] <slangasek> s/file/package/
[01:44] <lamont>   * dig: add -DDIG_SIGCHASE to compile options.  LP: #257682
[01:44] <lamont>   * enable largefile support.  Closes: #497040
[01:44] <lamont> otherwise, nfc
[01:44] <slangasek> the package is only 61K in total so it's not a major issue by itself, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a local change or a sign of changes that are giving us fatter binaries in general
[01:44] <slangasek> ok, thanks; time to test builds in a chroot
[01:44] <lamont> I haven't really looked
[02:01] <Chipzz> bug 257682
[02:02] <lamont> Chipzz: yep.  that's the bug alright
[02:04] <Chipzz> lamont: wanted to take a look at it myself :P
[02:04] <lamont> heh
[02:05] <Chipzz> I was just wondering, ubotu should probably generate those links automatically when someone says "LP: #xxxxx"
[02:07] <Chipzz> heh
[02:07] <Chipzz> bug 497040
[02:07] <Chipzz> weird
[02:25] <slangasek> lamont: curiously, if I do a local rebuild, bind9-host comes out even larger...
[02:25] <slangasek> with dpkg-buildpackage -B
[02:25] <lamont> interesting
[02:26] <slangasek> oh, langpack stripping maybe?
[02:26] <lamont> yeah - possibly
[02:26] <slangasek> hmm, no
[02:26] <lamont> Chipzz: debian bug 497040
[02:27] <slangasek> lamont: right, don't use 'du' to compare file sizes across systems with different block sizes :)
[02:39] <Chipzz> lamont: ah heh. fail on my part :P
[02:39] <lamont> slangasek: heh
[03:04] <slangasek> lamont: right, so rebuilding the intrepid package with the jaunty toolchain also gives a smaller package, so I guess one of the changed build options means a significant code size increase
[03:05] <lamont> slangasek: git clone git://git.debian.org/~lamont/bind9.git
[03:05] <slangasek> hmm?
[04:02] <lamont> slangasek: that has the entire history if you wanna bisect the changes... :)
[04:02] <lamont> though there aren't really that many of htem
[04:02]  * lamont sleeps
[04:21] <bryce> slangasek: btw for alpha-2 could you include in the release notes a known-issue with i8xx chips (bug #304871)
[04:22] <bryce> slangasek: we might be able to get a fix in for alpha-2, but I think i8xx gfx users should hold off on upgrading a bit until it's sorted out
[04:53] <slangasek> bryce: ok, noted
[04:53] <slangasek> lamont: apparently it's the DIG_SIGCHASE change that does it
[04:54] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: FYI, the change in ttf-arphic-uming to select dpkg compression based on dist name doesn't work
[04:55] <LaserJock> anybody know offhand a page that clearly says what Ubuntu's security support policies are?
[04:56] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: I'm not sure the buildds use ubuntu-minimal, which would mean lsb-release is only installed if you build-depend on it
[05:02] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: so, your suggestion would be to build-depend on lsb-release?
[05:03] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: yeah (just uploaded with that change)
[05:03] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: ok, thanks
[05:03] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: and I see we've deliberately dropped the lzma option for ttf-kochi, but ttf-kochi is still on the CDs - what binary packages should replace ttf-kochi-{gothic,mincho}?
[05:04] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: ttf-sazanami-{gothic,mincho}
[05:06] <slangasek> ah, already changed in the seed and just needs an upload :)
[07:18] <dholbach> good morning
[08:14] <Tonio_> hi
[08:15] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[08:55] <pitti> Good morning
[08:55] <pitti> tkamppeter: hey
[08:56] <lool> Hey pitti
[08:56] <lool> pitti: had a good trip?
[08:56] <pitti> everyone landed safely again? /me had a very broken trip
[08:56] <lool> what happened?
[08:56] <pitti> lool: most improbable EVER
[08:57] <pitti> lool: in our plane in SF, the door didn't close, which meant 4 hours delay; after 2 hours we left the plane again
[08:57] <pitti> and guess whom we ran into
[08:57] <pitti> mvo, ogra, and the other dudes which took the other plane 40 mins earlier
[08:57] <pitti> whose plane broke as well, in a much more scary manner
[08:58] <pitti> and then in Frankfurt I had to stand in line for 2.5 hours to get my ticket rebooked
[08:58] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have an SRU for bug 306125 and bug 288570. Can you improve the Intrepid tasks of these bugs?
[08:58] <lool> pitti: Sounds fun   :-/
[08:59] <pitti> eww, wiki.u.c. down?
[08:59] <lool> pitti: Doesn't respond for me either
[09:00] <pitti> I get a 503 Service Unavailable
[09:00] <lool> I get a timeout; are you using a proxy?
[09:00] <Koon> I got a few 500 this morning.
[09:00] <Koon> and now it's a timeout.
[09:02] <Koon> Now I got 503
[09:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: done
[09:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, will upload the new gs to -proposed. Please pass it through.
[09:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, new gs is uploaded. Can you pass it through, thanks.
[09:07] <pitti> will process the queue later
[09:24] <Chipzz> where can I ask for some help with a udev problem? I know, #ubuntu for support, but I'm highly unlikely to get meaningfull help there on that subject :P
[09:24] <StevenK> pitti: Are you planning to do the libspe2 merge on main-manual?
[09:40] <pitti> oh, I didn't even look at that; I touched libspe2?
[09:49] <StevenK> pitti: According to MoM, you did
[10:26] <tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS is still hanging in the -proposed queue (on bug 271350) and I have already two new bugs to SRU. How should we proceed?
[10:26] <tkamppeter> In the bug one person reported that the patch works for him in Jaunty and I have the patched version on a normal PC and no regressions.
[10:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: it's there for 19 days already; it should really get tested
[10:27] <pitti> some feedback about "still works for me"
[10:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, what do you mean with 'some feedback about "still works for me"'?
[10:30] <pitti> tkamppeter: I won't move it to -updates without anyone saying "that version still works for me"
[10:32]  * pitti upgrades his wife's computer to that version
[10:32] <tkamppeter> pitti, so I add the fixes for the two other bugs, creating a 2ubuntu5 and if the testers of the two other bugs are completely content, we put up 2ubuntu5.
[10:53] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes
[10:53] <pitti> tkamppeter: but before I'd like to move 4 to -updates
[11:00] <tkamppeter> pitti, the bugs which I want to fix with 2ubuntu5 are bug 286048, bug 300312, bug 244840, and bug 47649.
[11:00] <tkamppeter> pitti, it would be great if the reporters of these bugs could start to test now.
[11:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: I might also have a fix for bug 237256 in time
[11:01] <tkamppeter> pitti, great. How do you fix that one.
[11:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the Intrepid tasks of the bugs I mentioned above?
[11:04] <pitti> tkamppeter: replied to 237256
[11:05] <pitti> tkamppeter: done
[11:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, you simply added "/usr/Brother/** Ux" to the AppArmor file?
[11:08] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks for approving the Intrepid tasks.
[11:09] <pitti> Keybuk, kees: on whose plate is the d-bus (security/new version) update?
[11:10] <Keybuk> mine
[11:10] <Keybuk> it's not urgent, as far as we can tell there's no escalation you can get from it
[11:10] <Keybuk> and the fix is as bad as the cure
[11:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, I think, if we put 2ubuntu5 into -proposed now, we once get a lot of other fixes tested and second, we get the patch of bug 271350 regression-tested by the reporters of the other bugs. WDYT?
[11:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: *shrug* WFM
[11:15] <tkamppeter> pitti, WFM? "Works for me"? "Wait for me"?
[11:15] <pitti> tkamppeter: "works for me"
[11:17] <DktrKranz> doko: when you have some spare time, mind looking/commenting at bug 254790? Thanks.
[11:23] <tkamppeter> pitti, so can you give me your fix for Brother then and I will upload 2ubuntu5?
[11:34] <soren> Keybuk: I'm playing a bit around with some shared storage and I was wondering if you've given any thought to the problems that will inevitable arise when e.g. a virtual machine puts a raid superblock onto its block devices and these are e.g. shared over iscsi and appear on multiple hosts.
[11:52] <Keybuk> soren: what kind of problems are you expecting?
[11:53] <soren> Keybuk: Each host will notice the raid superblock and configure the raid set... Right?
[11:54] <Kano> hi, what allows u to mount hd partitions without fstab entry?
[11:54] <soren> Keybuk: Same problem with lvm. The lvm udev rules call "lvmchange -ay" (without naming the volume group). I'm not sure if that actually does anything or just marks it as active in the kernel.
[11:55] <Keybuk> pitti: am tracking the d-bus issue on bug #30632
[11:55] <Keybuk> err
[11:55] <Keybuk> pitti: am tracking the d-bus issue on bug #306362
[11:56] <Keybuk> the issue is that just about every existing dbus policy file is wrong in some way
[11:56] <Keybuk> so if we upload the "fixed" version of d-bus, every service will break
[11:56] <Keybuk> and worse, services will break because *other* policy files are broken
[11:57] <Keybuk> e.g. say that /etc/dbus-1/service.d/foo.conf has
[11:57] <Keybuk>   <policy context="default">
[11:57] <Keybuk>     <deny receive_interface="com.ubuntu.Frob"/>
[11:57] <Keybuk>   </policy>
[11:57] <Keybuk> that means
[11:57] <Keybuk> "by default, deny ANY SERVICE from receiving messages for the com.ubuntu.Frob interface
[11:58] <Keybuk>  AND, since we have denied interfaces, deny ANY SERVICE from receiving messages _with_no_interface_set_"
[11:58] <Keybuk> (sending messages without the interface set is default for things like Python)
[11:58] <Keybuk> assumedly what they really meant was
[11:58] <Keybuk>     <deny receive_destination="com.ubuntu.Frob"/>
[11:58] <Keybuk> or
[11:58] <Keybuk>     <deny receive_destination="com.ubuntu.Frob" receive_interface="com.ubuntu.Frob"/>
[11:59] <Keybuk> though if you have the former, you don't need the latter
[12:00] <Keybuk> also almost nobody allows people to receive their signals ;)
[12:08] <soren> Keybuk: My only idea to prevent the raid (and similar) problems is to keep a list of uuid's that udev should just ignore and then figure out a way to export such a list from libvirt, but perhaps you have a more clever approach up your sleave?
[12:12] <Keybuk> pitti: oh, and note that the D-Bus upstream stance is now to revert all the security fixes and go back to open with logging ;)
[12:12] <Keybuk> soren: why should udev ignore them?
[12:13] <Keybuk> you still want them in the udevdb and still want them in /dev surely?
[12:13] <soren> Keybuk: Not really.
[12:13] <Keybuk> why not?>
[12:13] <Keybuk> I don't understand why you'd want a connected device which udev doesn't know about?
[12:13] <soren> Keybuk: Well, I suppose it depends on what you refer to by "them". :)
[12:13] <Keybuk> if it's in /sys, there's no reason it shouldn't be in /dev
[12:14] <soren> I want to have access to the raw block devices, but not configure the raid sets or lvm vg's that might be on there.
[12:14] <Keybuk> you generally want a match between /sys/dev/block <=> /dev/block and /sys/dev/char <=> /dev/char
[12:14] <Keybuk> ah, I see what you mean
[12:15] <Keybuk> you want the top-level block device to appear, but don't want to run mdadm and/or lvm on it?
[12:15] <soren> Right.
[12:15] <Keybuk> what heuristic would you follow to decide that?
[12:15] <soren> My specificu use case is virtual machines, so exporting some sort of list from libvirt would be a good start.
[12:17] <Kano> soren: can you tell me how the mounting works without fstab entry for hd partitions?
[12:18] <Keybuk> soren: if we have a blacklist, I'd use it to skip the entire "persistent" bit of the udev rules
[12:18] <soren> libvirt has a storage handling api. I'm expecting that people will use that to set up iscsi to get access to the shares.
[12:18] <Keybuk> e.g. /dev/disk/by-*, mdadm, lvm, etc.
[12:18] <Keybuk> even better if we could generate that blacklist in the form of udev rules in the first place
[12:18] <Keybuk> 59-blacklist.rules
[12:18] <soren> Keybuk: Ah, good idea
[12:18] <Keybuk> BLAH==BLAH, GOTO="symlinks_end"
[12:18] <Keybuk> 79-symlinks-end.rules
[12:19] <Keybuk> LABEL="symlinks_end"
[12:19] <soren> Keybuk: The target of GOTO doesn't need to be in the same file?
[12:19] <Keybuk> type thing
[12:19] <soren> That's convenient.
[12:19] <Keybuk> no, you can jump files with it
[12:19] <Keybuk> hell, you may want to just do
[12:19] <Keybuk> BLAH==BLAH, OPTIONS+="last_rule"
[12:19] <Keybuk> to prevent any further processing, including hal
[12:19] <Keybuk> in fact, I think last_rule is probably correct
[12:19] <Keybuk> otherwise you may still get hal automounting
[12:20] <soren> Yeah, that would suck.
[12:20] <soren> Hm... It won't suffice for lvm, though.
[12:21] <soren> 85-lvm calls "lvchange -a y" (with out the vg name), so next time it's triggered, any volume groups will be discovered and activated.
[12:21] <Keybuk> ah, true
[12:21] <Keybuk> I'm still waiting for incremental LVM
[12:21] <Nafallo> incremental?
[12:21] <Nafallo> how would that work?
[12:21] <Keybuk> Nafallo: instead of telling lvm "scan for new block devices and do what you want", you'd instead tell lvm "there's a new /dev/sda4 - do you want that?"
[12:21] <emgent> \sh: ping
[12:22] <Nafallo> Keybuk: ah. in that sense. that makes sense :-)
[12:22] <Keybuk> and lvm would only activate when it has all the pieces it needs
[12:23] <soren> Keybuk: Scanning alone should be fine, I suppose. As long as it doesn't get activated, we should be golden, right?
[12:23] <Nafallo> hmm. I have my lvms on raid ;-)
[12:23] <Nafallo> but I guess we can do the same for mdraid? :-)
[12:23] <Keybuk> right, "I have /dev/dm-0, do you want it?"
[12:24] <Keybuk> soren: we activate everything
[12:24] <soren> Keybuk: I realise.
[12:24] <soren> Hmm...
[12:25] <soren> I mean: If we can somehow change the lvm rules to make sure we don't activate certain vg's, we should be fine, even we can't prevent the block devices from being scanned.
[12:25] <soren> s/even/even though/
[12:25] <Keybuk> we don't have any ability to prevent activation
[12:25] <Keybuk> unless lvm has a conf file for taht
[12:26] <soren> vgchange -ay takes an argument.
[12:26] <Keybuk> of the specific device you want to activate, right?
[12:26] <Keybuk> not a list of ones you do *not*
[12:27] <soren> volume group.
[12:27] <soren> Right.
[12:27] <soren> Erm...
[12:27] <Keybuk> so that would break things ;)
[12:27] <soren> Ok, I see where you're going.
[12:27] <Keybuk> right now, lvm only works *because* we always activate
[12:28] <soren> Ok, what we need to do is to make vgscan ignore the relevant block devices altogether.
[12:29] <Keybuk> agree
[12:30] <soren> Cool. I'll look into that.
[12:30] <Keybuk> upstream is already working on something like that
[12:31] <Keybuk> (agk)
[12:33] <soren> Keybuk: Cool. I'll see if I can strike up a conversation with him.
[12:33] <soren> Keybuk: Thanks for your input!
[12:34] <Keybuk> I wouldn't expect it in this release
[12:35] <soren> My primary concern is really raid. I can imagine massive breakage from that. I don't see lvm as quite as high risk.
[12:35] <soren> ...but should definitely be fixed.
[12:35] <Keybuk> there is mdadm incremental support upstream
[12:35] <Keybuk> but we don't use it yet
[12:35] <Keybuk> so with mdadm, we scan and activate all devices on each new block device
[12:35] <soren> *blink*
[12:35] <soren> Really?
[12:36] <soren> I thought we did that incrementally.
[12:36] <Keybuk> nope
[12:36]  * soren needs to run out for an hour or so..
[12:36] <Keybuk> it's on my TODO list
[12:36] <Keybuk> but there's a lot of things on my TODO list ;)
[12:36] <Keybuk> if you want to take a stab, go for it
[12:37] <Keybuk> basically instead of calling mdadm within watershed, we would call mdadm --incremental for each block device
[12:37] <Keybuk> AIUI
[12:37] <Keybuk> needs lots of code reading and testing to make sure it'll do the right thing
[12:40] <lamont> slangasek: interesting... still, having SIGCHASE is a good thing
[13:35] <Keybuk> random thought of the day
[13:35] <Keybuk> on server, instead of having six gettys on different tty1s...
[13:35] <Keybuk> ...why don't we have just one tty/getty and run screen by default
[13:36] <cjwatson> I have actually had a real use (fairly frequently) for being able to get to different ttys without going through userspace, on a server hammered by load
[13:36] <cjwatson> my mail server doesn't have a lot of memory and occasionally SA kills it ...
[13:37] <Keybuk> ttys are in userspace though?
[13:37] <Keybuk> you still have to go through login. pam, shell, etc.
[13:37] <Keybuk> which is harder work than opening a new screen pty and running the shell in it
[13:37] <cjwatson> not if you've anticipated this possibility and already have something logged in with a tail of syslog
[13:38] <cjwatson> then it's just kernelspace
[13:38] <Keybuk> you'd have a screen logged in with a tail of syslog?
[13:38] <cjwatson> screen would have to get scheduled in order to switch to it
[13:38] <cjwatson> I wish this were a hypothetical problem for me :(
[13:38] <Keybuk> hmm. that's a reasonable point
[13:39] <cjwatson> (tail has to get scheduled too, but that's fairly likely to happen at *some* point between the box tanking and me noticing - often this turns out to be the crappy wireless driver for that box exploding)
[13:40] <Keybuk> tail's parent (the shell) has to be scheduled as well
[13:40] <cjwatson> for tail -f?
[13:40] <cjwatson> surely not
[13:40] <slangasek> directhex: tomboy appears to be the only app pulling a lot of mono 1.0 stuff into the CDs at present; is that something that's due to be "corrected"?
[13:40] <Keybuk> cjwatson: sure
[13:40] <Keybuk> if you kill your running tail
[13:40] <Keybuk> tail has to be scheduled to receive SIGTERM and do something about it
[13:41] <Keybuk> then the shell has to be scheduled to receive SIGCHLD and call wait()
[13:41] <cjwatson> oh, no, I just meant leaving tail -f running forever
[13:41] <Keybuk> and assumedly scheduled enough to show the next prompt and allow you to run something else (nice generally :p)
[13:41] <Keybuk> ah, you only wanted to read the tail?
[13:41] <Keybuk> I thought you meant having a handy logged-in-as-root shell somewhere that you happened to run tail in normally
[13:41] <Keybuk> ie. you switched, killed tail, then used that shell to rescue the box
[13:42] <Keybuk> though that also brings up an interesting point
[13:42] <cjwatson> I want to find out whether the answer is "leave it a few minutes and it'll sort itself out" or "need to battle with a root shell to fix stuff" or "need to reboot box"
[13:42] <cjwatson> or whatever
[13:42] <Keybuk> syslog is useful on servers, why *not* have it sent to a spare tty automatically?
[13:42] <cjwatson> it's a fairly significant time-saver
[13:42] <Keybuk> d-i style
[13:42] <cjwatson> I've always thought that was a good idea; I run it on tty<high>
[13:42] <Spads> I used to use tty24
[13:43] <Pici> Some might see it as a security breach to have a syslog taik setup automatically to a spare tty.
[13:43] <cjwatson> some might be wrong. if you have physical access then you have root
[13:44] <cjwatson> obviously if the machine is specially locked-down then you'd want to disable it
[13:44] <cjwatson> but that's not the common case and already requires other work
[13:44] <Spads> http://www.jerkcity.com/emu//jerkcity1110.html
[13:44] <Spads> (SFW)
[13:45] <Pici> heh
[13:47] <directhex> slangasek, yes, definitely. it's just a long slog, unfortunately
[13:47] <directhex> slangasek, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO shows current progress
[13:48] <slangasek> directhex: thanks, I'll read up; it would be nice to get rid of the 1.0 stuff over the next couple of days, since that one change should be enough to get our CDs back down to size
[13:48] <directhex> slangasek, couple of days, i don't think will happen. sorry. we're working as best we can, both at the debian & ubuntu ends
[13:48] <slangasek> (or at least, to within spitting distance)
[13:49] <directhex> the *real* baddie is libgtk2.0-cil - but if we update that too early, it will break all untransitioned apps
[13:49] <slangasek> directhex: hmm.  I don't see an explanation on this page of what needs to be done to get tomboy from 1.0 -> 2.0?
[13:49] <directhex> slangasek, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20Transition
[13:50] <tjaalton> slangasek: hey, as you've probably noticed, I've uploaded xserver 1.6beta3 to jaunty. now the problem is that some old & exotic input drivers fail to build. mind if I drop them from -input-all for alpha2 so that it'd remain installable?
[13:50] <directhex> slangasek, basically the libs used by it need to be 2.0, as well as tomboy itself
[13:51] <slangasek> tjaalton: quantify "old and exotic" for me, please? :)
[13:51] <tjaalton> slangasek: -summa for instance, no real changes to the code since 2005
[13:52] <slangasek> directhex: so tomboy can't switch until gtk-sharp2 and gnome-sharp2 (and perhaps others) are transitioned?
[13:52] <tjaalton> ie. hardware that no-one using jaunty will miss ;)
[13:52] <directhex> slangasek, essentially, yes.
[13:53] <slangasek> tjaalton: hrm, that one's already in universe though, so presumably isn't a dep of -all?
[13:54] <slangasek> tjaalton: -input-all only depends on 6 input drivers, none of which look like they'd be a good idea to drop yet
[13:54] <slangasek> (IMHO)
[13:54] <tjaalton> slangasek: oh, haha
[13:54] <tjaalton> silly me then
[13:54] <directhex> slangasek, Laney & james_w`  have been working hard in helping those of us in pkg-mono get as much done as quickly as possible
[13:54] <tjaalton> carry on..
[13:57] <directhex> slangasek, most of the remaining apps are waiting for sync, with a couple of exceptions (RainCT needs to poke gbrainy, monodevelop hasn't been done yet, nant & ndoc are exceptionally difficult to do, ikvm is the most evil package in all of creation)
[13:57] <slangasek> have sync requests been filed?
[13:57] <slangasek> if so, I'll switch gears right now and take care of those
[13:57] <pitti> tkamppeter: Brother fix> I asked the submitter for testing it
[13:58] <directhex> on most of them. i need to wait for mirror push on a couple of them, as requestsync is bitching that they aren't in the archive
[13:58] <directhex> slangasek, the ones i filed have been ack'd. i don't know what delay there is after someone says "ACK" though
[13:58] <slangasek> "until an archive admin does them"
[13:59] <pitti> Keybuk: lol, so in the end we don't need to do a security update at all? :-)
[14:02] <cjwatson> could somebody review base-installer, partman-target, and user-setup for hardy-proposed? I'd like to get a roll-up ubiquity upload in for 8.04.2, and it ought to include those pending installer changes I think
[14:03] <directhex> slangasek, let me see whether there are any main libs it's safe to transition early (i.e. packages with no untransitioned rdeps)
[14:05] <fbond> Hi.  How can I tell which packages get security updates for the full five years in an LTS release?
[14:06] <directhex> slangasek, if you see slomo before i do, can you poke him and ask him which of his mono packages he's happy to pass to team maintenance? he's a bit of a bottleneck on some things right now
[14:06] <slangasek> directhex: ok.  also, can you point me at specific bug numbers for your outstanding sync requests?  nothing on my pending list looks mono-ish
[14:06] <directhex> fbond, do you have a gui on your system?
[14:07] <fbond> directhex: Sort of.  It's a pretty custom image with a light GUI that is deployed on digital signs.
[14:08] <fbond> directhex: That's why I asked the question the way I did.
[14:08] <fbond> directhex: Is there some kind of policy on this?  I keep getting heuristics from people.
[14:08] <directhex> fbond, "stuff in main"
[14:09] <fbond> directhex: Okay, thanks.
[14:09] <cjwatson> no, that isn't accurate unfortunately
[14:09] <cjwatson> "stuff that's server-ish"
[14:09] <directhex> it's not?
[14:09] <fbond> cjwatson: I figured as much...
[14:10] <cjwatson> I owe Nick Barcet some work to process the work he's been doing on defining this more tightly
[14:10] <fbond> cjwatson: Okay, sounds like I can only really count 3 years for my app.
[14:10] <fbond> Thanks.
[14:12] <slangasek> directhex: oh, perhaps the ones with '[mono2.0transition]' in the title ;)
[14:12] <directhex> slangasek, bug 308179, bug 307580, bug 307593, bug 307973, bug 307970
[14:12] <slangasek> directhex: got it - those will all be done shortly, then
[14:13] <directhex> and one more... 308180
[14:13] <slangasek> cjwatson: will have a look at those installer packages at the end of this sync run
[14:13] <directhex> FYI, the deps on ubuntu-dev-tools should be stricter. i get nasty errors running jaunty requestsync on hardy
[14:14] <directhex> i hope this newer python-launchpad-bugs fixes it
[14:15] <slangasek> directhex: gnome-rdp in ubuntu has a 0ubuntu5 version number but the bug doesn't discuss whether there are Ubuntu-local changes that we'll be stomping on with a sync?
[14:15] <slangasek> (bug #307593)
[14:16] <directhex> slangasek, according to the changelog, it should be synced now
[14:16] <slangasek> ok
[14:16] <directhex> "after Hardy this should be simply
[14:16] <directhex>       synced.
[14:16] <directhex>  -- Sebastian Dröge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:17] <directhex> slangasek, and given the debian packager is 1) one of the main pkg-mono people 2) upstream, i'm inclined to think it's worth syncing from now on
[14:17] <cjwatson> slangasek: ta
[14:18] <cjwatson> slangasek: any objection to me bumping base-files to 8.04.2 in preparation?
[14:18] <slangasek> cjwatson: feel free
[14:19] <cjwatson> (it's a build-dep of debian-installer, you see)
[14:19] <directhex> aha, alpha 2. THAT's where this talk of cd space came from
[14:39] <slangasek> directhex: ok, syncs done except for gfax (since as dholbach notes, the tgzs don't match and a fake sync is needed)
[14:39] <slangasek> directhex: how far ahead does that move us? :)
[14:40] <directhex> slangasek, did you catch [14:13] <directhex> and one more... 308180 ?
[14:40] <slangasek> yes
[14:40]  * directhex updates wiki
[14:41] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/140458/comments/33 any objection to me just doing that?
[14:41] <cjwatson> slangasek: I assume I should edit the files in MirrorMetalink/templates/ ?
[14:41] <apw> superm1, hey when you were seeing the ACPI: EC: stuff which kernel was that with, it is looking here like it is probabally resolved on the kernels i am running
[14:43] <directhex> slangasek, with all of the above packages done, then only the ones i named remain. i'll need to assess the impact of starting on libs "early", which i'll do once LP has a green light against all the previous syncs
[14:43] <slangasek> cjwatson: no objection / yes
[14:43] <slangasek> directhex: sorry, which are the ones you named? I seem to have lost track
 slangasek, most of the remaining apps are waiting for sync, with a couple of exceptions (RainCT needs to poke gbrainy, monodevelop hasn't been done yet, nant & ndoc are exceptionally difficult to do, ikvm is the most evil package in all of creation)
[14:44] <slangasek> ok
[14:45] <directhex> i don't know how much we care about breaking ikvm, i think gbrainy should survive libs being done..... i don't know about nant & ndoc's impact if the libs are done early
[14:47] <directhex> hm, i think i forgot one
[14:50] <Laney> tangerine?
[14:50] <Laney> oh, you win \o/
[14:50] <directhex> Laney, good guess! bug 308189
[14:50] <cjwatson> doko: are you planning a hardy upload for bug 288279? (8.04.2 is coming up soonish)
[14:50] <directhex> slangasek, sorry for missing that one
[14:51] <slangasek> directhex: no worries, syncing now
[14:53] <directhex> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO looks a lot greener than it did an hour ago
[14:53] <slangasek> and gbrainy is not yet ready to sync?
[14:53] <slangasek> or is it?
[14:54] <directhex> nope. rainct wanted to ask upstream for a new version w/ minor fixes
[14:54] <directhex> you'll have to ask him - it's not a team-maintained package so we can't upload it willy nilly
[14:55] <slangasek> ok
[14:56] <directhex> slangasek, what does a fakesync involve, WRT gfax?
[14:56] <slangasek> directhex: manually applying the Debian diff to the Ubuntu tarball, signing and uploading
[14:57] <directhex> PITA
[14:58] <slangasek> yes, blame whoever diverged the tarball :)
[14:58] <cjwatson> this is why I was banging on about making sure the core stack tarballs are the same :)
[14:59] <directhex> cjwatson, they are! or i think they are
[14:59] <directhex> too lazy to md5sum them by hand, but we certainly coordinated that
[14:59] <cjwatson> wasn't saying they weren't
[14:59] <cjwatson> just saying that this is the problem I was trying to make sure we didn't encounter there as well
[14:59] <directhex> right
[15:00] <directhex> well, any volunteers to do the gfax fakesync? can you think of anyone, Laney?
[15:00] <directhex> ;)
[15:00] <slangasek> I can take care of it
[15:02]  * directhex checks whether any untransitioned apps will die from transitionedlibitis
[15:03] <Keybuk> pitti: we need to do something, but that something involves an audit of every single d-bus using package
[15:04] <directhex> gfax is the only 1.0 app remaining
[15:04] <directhex> well. the only one using libs outside the core mono stack, anyway
[15:07] <slangasek> directhex: ok, what next then? :)
[15:08] <directhex> slangasek, well, for minimizing delays? 0ubuntu1 the entire third third of the todo wiki
[15:08] <superm1> apw, i can give it a test if you've got a link to what you're running
[15:09] <slangasek> directhex: oh; that doesn't sound fun. :)
[15:09] <slangasek> directhex: how much of that needs to be done before tomboy benefits? most/all?
[15:09] <directhex> slangasek, what about f-spot?
[15:10] <apw> superm1, sure, i guess i should upload exactly what i have installed
[15:10] <slangasek> directhex: I don't know - how much does converting f-spot buy us in terms of CD space?
[15:10] <apw> tho. are you using 32 bit, i gues syou are
[15:10] <directhex> slangasek, tomboy, looks like gtk-sharp2, gnome-sharp2, mono-addins, ndesk-dbus, ndesk-dbus-glib
[15:10] <directhex> but that's scaning by eye
[15:10] <superm1> apw, yeah
[15:11] <apw> ok ... then any of the -11 kernels is basically the same, ie. contains the acpi fix that seems to fix me
[15:11] <directhex> f-spot needs libflickrnet and gnome-desktop-sharp2 in addition
[15:11] <directhex> i think that's it
[15:11] <apw> superm1, the ones here are worth testing: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apw/webcams1/
[15:12] <superm1> apw, okay i'll take a look in a little bit
[15:12] <apw> superm1, thanks for that
[15:23] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you think https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printer-sharing is still relevant? it's one click in s-c-p now
[15:28] <slangasek> directhex: which order should those lib packages be done in? in the order you listed them?
[15:29] <directhex> slangasek, doesn't matter. as long as gfax is done, then there's no danger caused by the order, as the executable which gets executed determines which runtime mono tries to use (i.e. even if one of its deps becomes 2.0 whilst it still remains 1.0 itself, a lib will be 2.0ified at runtime if the app using it is 2.0)
[15:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, for Linux networks it is all perfect and easy. If you set up a print queue and it works locally, after activating sharing in s-c-p, the printer works as well on remote CUPS clients.
[15:30] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, as I thought; I updated the blueprint accordingly
[15:32] <tkamppeter> pitti, only thing which could be improved is sharing a printer to Windows clients. To make it really easy one would need the CUPS driver for Windows, which is not free and there is also not much development done on it.
[15:32] <slangasek> directhex: I'm quite certain I don't understand that, but ok :-)
[15:32] <directhex> you earnt a LOL, that's all that matters
[15:45] <Keybuk> yup, nvidia-glx-180 breaks everything
[16:11] <superm1> Keybuk, curiosity: what's the context of that?  i've just switched to it and not seen any oddities yet...
[16:12] <Keybuk> lots of repainting issues
[16:12] <directhex> ooh, a 180 driver? with vdpau goodness?
[16:12] <Keybuk> esp. with gnome-terminal, where it simply won't be repainted at times
[16:12] <Keybuk> and suspend/resume utter fail
[16:13] <superm1> ah probably only when compizified with the repainting issues.
[16:13] <superm1> yup they sure are there when i turn it on
[16:17] <ion_> (offtopic "http://johan.kiviniemi.name/blag/ubuntu-checklist/")
[16:17] <superm1> apw, well it's starting in polling mode a lot sooner this time, but still seeing that GPE storm
[16:18] <superm1> apw, and still "missing confirmation, switch off interrupt mode"
[16:19] <apw> superm1, can you email me the whole dmesg please
[16:19] <superm1> apw, sure
[16:19] <apw> thanks a lot ...
[16:24] <apw> superm1, can you also suspend and resume the machine, i found that had an effect on the poll/interrupt mode
[16:25] <superm1> apw, i did so at the end of it
[16:25] <superm1> it's in the same dmesg already
[16:25] <apw> handy
[16:47] <slangasek> directhex: so none of the gtk-sharp2 binary packages require a renme for the mono 2.0 transition?
[16:48] <directhex> slangasek, nope. nothing needs to go to NEW
[16:48] <slangasek> ok
[16:51] <slangasek> directhex: gtk-sharp2 uploaded, then; do the other libs all need to be uploaded at roughly the same time?
[16:51] <directhex> slangasek, there's really no time limit for it. at your leisure
[16:51] <directhex> now if you'll excuse me, i have a bus to catch
[16:52]  * slangasek waves
[16:52] <directhex> erm, a car to drive home. /me needs more sleep
[17:39] <Fenix|work> Greetings... Would someone be so kind as to tell me how to make a static library version of bash so I can chroot on a 64 bit system?
[17:41] <DRebellion> Fenix|work, I'm not sure about the static bash compilation, but you may be interested in debootstrap to create a minimal chroot.
[17:41] <Fenix|work> I'll take it
[17:41] <cjwatson> Fenix|work: sudo apt-get install bash-static
[17:41] <Fenix|work> also, while I'm here... how do I fix a f-up that my jr. did to my box... chmod -R 644 * from /
[17:42] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, bash-static is not abailable, but is referred to by another package.  This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source
[17:44] <cjwatson> Fenix|work: it's available (in universe) in every release since at least dapper
[17:44] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, for amd64?
[17:45] <Fenix|work> just uncommented out some of the lines
[17:45] <Fenix|work> (from /etc/apt/sources.list)
[17:49] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, is the binary called bash, or something else?
[17:53] <cjwatson> Fenix|work: yes, for amd64.
[17:53] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, I installed it, but still no joy... once I'm in the chroot... everything is Permission denied.... even ls
[17:53] <cjwatson> Fenix|work: /bin/bash-static (use packages.ubuntu.com)
[17:54] <Fenix|work> bash-static: /bin/ls: permission denied
[17:54] <cjwatson> sure, bash-static doesn't magically make other executables work
[17:54] <cjwatson> why not fix stuff up from outside the chroot? chmod will work perfectly well from outside
[17:55] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, the permissions are mostly fixed... unless I've messed up the permissions on the libraries
[17:56] <cjwatson> once you have enough fixed to run basic commands, get a list of all the packages you have installed and feed it to 'apt-get --reinstall install'
[17:57] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, would you be kind enough to help me get the main files/directories straightened out permissions wise?
[18:00] <cjwatson> 'chmod +x /path/to/chroot/bin/*' and the same for /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin ought to take care of most of it. Don't actually try to boot into the system or grant remote access to it until you've reinstalled all the packages, though, as set-id bits and any limited permissions will be wrong
[18:00] <cjwatson> this really isn't a development topic ...
[18:01] <Fenix|work> what about libaries?  I've set them to 644
[18:02] <cjwatson> libraries don't generally need to be executable, so that's fine
[18:03] <Fenix|work> ok... chmod a+x'd all those directories and still get bash-static: /bin/ls: Permission denied when I chroot in
[18:03] <Fenix|work> I also have bound /dev /proc and /sys to my mounted volume
[18:09] <cjwatson> make sure that directories are executable, otherwise the runtime linker will get EACCES when looking for libraries
[18:09] <cjwatson> e.g. /lib and /usr/lib but also everything else. creative use of find and xargs will be useful
[18:09] <cjwatson> I have to go and cannot help you further. Please continue on #ubuntu
[18:10] <Fenix|work> one thing I've noticed when doing ldd on /mnt/bin/ls ... linux-vdso.so.1 isn't pointing to anything ... all the other libs point to files and their permissions are ok.
[18:11] <Fenix|work> linux-vdso.so.1 =>  (0x00007fffa9dff000)
[18:11] <cjwatson> that's normal. it's a virtual library provided by the kernel.
[18:12] <Fenix|work> they don't match
[18:13] <Fenix|work> linux-vdso.so.1 =>  (0x00007fff959ff000) ... is the one on the livecd
[18:13] <Fenix|work> could this be my dilema?
[18:15] <directhex> it's a virtual lib, pointing to a memory address specific to the running kernel
[18:15] <directhex> so it's normal enough
[18:16] <cjwatson> you still need to check the permissions on *directories* as well as files. If a directory is not executable then it isn't possible to use files in it
[18:16] <cjwatson> do that before inventing problems for yourself :)
[18:18] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, I've essentially done the following... find /mnt/ -type d -exec chmod 755 {} \; ... then furthermore did find /mnt/lib -type f -exec chmod 644 {} \; && find /mnt/usr/lib -type f -exec chmod 644 {} \;
[18:19] <Fenix|work> as well as changing chmod a+x /mnt/bin /mnt/sbin /mnt/usr/bin /mnt/usr/sbin
[18:21] <Fenix|work> so if I've missed something... I'd like to know
[18:22] <Fenix|work> ( as an aside, I've also fixed the permissions in /etc as well )
[18:32] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, problem solved... a couple of libraries need x permissions
[18:33] <imachine> Hi, I've had issues with building nvidia drivers on updated 8.04 (updated it to 8.10 yesterday).
[18:33] <imachine> I'm trying to pin-point the problem, perhaphs together we can sort it out?
[18:33] <imachine> dkms fails spewing out nvidia build cannot determine kernel version.
[18:34] <imachine> I've searched on generic linux forums, and it seems that it's caused by the lack of asm-i386 dir (or symlink) in the 'include' dir in the kernel headers, or sources, dir.
[18:43] <directhex> building nvidia drivers? ubuntu has packaged nvidia drivers
[18:43] <directhex> and breaking your own system is not a #ubuntu-devel topic
[18:44] <directhex> only breaking everyone's systems via package production
[18:46] <imachine> directhex, it was broken by someone else
[18:46] <imachine> directhex, since I'm using the standard packages ;-)
[18:46] <imachine> and dkms fails ;)
[18:47] <imachine> I joined -devel since I thought it'd be a better place to sort the error out.
[18:47] <imachine> this is the envy output http://pastebin.com/m6320267
[18:47] <imachine>  http://pastebin.com/m1fb153eb and heere's the make.log
[18:48] <imachine> so if anyone has any ideas... be my guest, I want this sorted, for me, and for anyone in the future ;]
[18:49] <directhex> tseliot is elsewhere right now. he's the guy to talk to about envy
[18:50] <imachine> yeah so I heard
[18:50] <imachine> it's not really an envy issue tho
[19:01] <imachine> directhex, http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=328232#p328232 seems this mentioned some sort of fix
[19:02] <imachine> so it looks like ubuntu version of drivers are not compatible with the new 8.10 kernel...
[19:02] <imachine> for some reason..
[19:02] <imachine> ;]
[19:11] <ScottK-laptop> imachine: Those posts were about 2.6.24 (which is the kernel we have in Hardy, not Intrepid).  If it's something to do with envy, ask tseliot when you see him around.
[19:16] <Fenix|work> cjwatson, when doing apt-get --reinstall install ... should I consider placing ubuntu-minimal in the list?
[19:17] <Fenix|work> (or maybe even ubuntu-standard)
[19:24] <asac> pitti: there? #291417 ... shall i verify that trivial fix so we can get that out of -proposed?
[19:26] <pitti> asac: please
[19:29] <imachine> ScottK-laptop, it's not really. I had no prblems on hardy. on intrepid (after upgrading from hardy) they appeared. I will indeed talk to tseliot :)
[19:29] <imachine> cheers
[19:30] <YokoZar> hmm there appears to be a pitti and a martin-pitt on launchpad
[19:30] <pitti> !
[19:30] <pitti> c'est ne pas moi
[19:31] <YokoZar> eh?
[19:31] <pitti> I don't know "Marty Pitt"
[19:32] <YokoZar> I'm trying to subscribe you to a bug (inspired by your UDS presentation) and I'm not sure which name to use ;) ...then I found your wiki page is empty
[19:32] <pitti> martin-pitt has 0 karma, pitti has a proper LP homepage and lots of karma :)
[19:33] <asac> pitti: done
[19:34] <YokoZar> I suspect martin-pitt was autocreated long long long ago
[19:34] <asac> pitti: i think I will do the same for the two outstanding -needed tags in nm
[19:35] <pitti> asac: as long as you are using the actual debs from intrepid-proposed, that's fine (compilation errors, wrong linked libs, and all that)
[19:35] <asac> pitti: sure. i am on intrepid still
[19:38] <pitti> asac: nm and nm-applet look good, I'll move that to -updates unless you heared anything bad about it?
[19:39] <pitti> asac: (I'm just at SRU mangling anyway)
[19:40] <pitti> ScottK-laptop: any chance you could test the packages in bug 278075?
[19:41] <ScottK-laptop> pitti: Since I uploaded the fix, does my testing count?
[19:41] <pitti> ScottK-laptop: if you use the actual binaries from the archive, it's much better than no testing at all
[19:42] <pitti> ScottK-laptop: and the bug looks like being actively detrimental, so it seems to me that this should move to -updates soon
[19:42] <ScottK-laptop> pitti: OK.  I was hoping the reporter would test it, but let me see what i can do.
[19:45] <asac> pitti: no nm should be fine ... let me go thorugh the SRU bugs swiftly again
[19:45] <pitti> asac: just checked -gnome, looks fine; 3/4 verified
[19:45] <pitti> (tested by me, too, no apparent regressions)
[19:47] <LaserJock> pitti: do rebuild-only SRUs need to go through the same SRU procedure as everything else?
[19:47] <pitti> LaserJock: yes
[19:48] <asac> pitti: ok ... lets move them then.
[19:52] <pitti> zul: please upload the fix for bug 282518 to jaunty
[19:54] <zul> pitti: np
[20:16] <pitti> doko: python-lxml now seems to b-dep on cython, didn't do that in intrepid; not described in the changelog, can it build without it, or does it need a MIR?
[20:38] <DimStar> Good evening everybody.. I'm an author of the library libproxy and a ubuntu user reported an issue with compiling the lib, linking against mozilla-js on Ubuntu 8.10. Libproxy uses pkg-config in order to identify the location of include files, but apparently on Ubuntu 8.10, this seems not to reflect the reality. Is something like this known to you?
[20:58] <ebroder> Any backporters around who could ACK on #305001 or #301283?
[21:14] <calc> pitti: suitesparse has been in main before so can it be promoted without a new MIR?
[21:19] <paulproteus> DimStar, Yo
[21:19] <DimStar> Hi paulproteus
[21:19] <paulproteus> I'm not aware of that issue, but do you know about the lib*-dev convention in Debian and Ubuntu?
[21:20] <paulproteus> DimStar, On Debian and Ubuntu you'll find that you need lib<package_name>-dev to get the right headers and pkg-config information.
[21:20] <DimStar> paulproteus: not really.. I'm myself openSUSE packager and participate in the libproxy project... and we were informed that this problem exists...
[21:21] <DimStar> maybe you can follow up all what we know so far:
[21:21] <calc> isn't suse like foo-devel for the same things?
[21:21] <DimStar> http://code.google.com/p/libproxy/issues/detail?id=18
[21:21] <paulproteus> Right, exactly - it's that same concept as foo-devel.
[21:21] <DimStar> yes... the user apparently has the .pc file on his system (so I assume he has the -dev package)
[21:21]  * paulproteus nods
[21:22] <DimStar> but the .pc file point in the --cflags to a location different from where he actually finds the jsapi.h file on his system
[21:22] <paulproteus> I see that, yeah.
[21:22] <DimStar> and not knowing all the background behind an ubuntu system I assumed it would be best to get some advice for this issue from you :-)
[21:23] <directhex> #ubuntu-mozillateam for mozilla oddities
[21:23] <DimStar> from 'my side' it looks like a werid packaging issue
[21:24] <DimStar> directhex: I can gladly bring it to the next channel... if this is the best way to go.
[21:25] <calc> DimStar: or perhaps ping asac but he probably isn't around now (he is in germany)
[21:25] <DimStar> calc: then he is only a few km away :-)
[21:26] <calc> DimStar: ah heh
[21:26] <DimStar> 10:30pm here
[21:53] <asac> calc: thanks took over in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[22:37]  * NCommander really hopes restore and backup get better with Jaunty
[22:37] <NCommander> Restoring is a PITA
[22:43] <doko> pitti: it *does* have a MIR. see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cython/+bug/299870
[22:58] <directhex> does anyone know why nant and ndoc are in main?
[22:58] <Hobbsee> they look to be directly seeded, but i don't have copies of the seeds here
[22:59] <directhex> Hobbsee, ndoc needs nant to build - but i'm not sure what uses ndoc these days
[23:00]  * StevenK updates his seed lists
[23:01] <Hobbsee> libndoc-cil
[23:01] <Hobbsee> and the docs
[23:02] <Hobbsee> strange.
[23:03] <directhex> Hobbsee, ndoc is a tool for converting .net xmldoc format to other things (e.g. indexed html). i don't see what it serves by being in main in this day & age
[23:03] <directhex> it might've been used once upon a time instead of monodoc, but i'm guessing


 I managed to get libreoffice itself to migrate, so maybe that will help with tests. e.g. not having different versions in release and proposed pockets
 [11:23]<Laney> I killed off all of those duplicate libreoffice tests and submitted a super one which covers everything … [11:23]<Laney> nobody re-submit please … [11:24]<Laney> for reasons if we have a lot of those running at once it makes any of them harder to run to completion
 Ack.
 typical. browser crashed with a open libreoffice test request tab, and reloaded it when restored 😆
 actually I got away with it. Laney must have missed one when he killed them off.
 however, I must remember to close test request tabs now just in case!


[02:40] <dzho> Unit193: saaaaame
[02:41] <Unit193> dzho: It might just be a sign we IRC too much.
[02:42] <dzho> hush
[02:55] <Unit193> Well huh, forgot you were in there.:3
[12:01] <dzho> wait, what?
[20:48] <thafreak> Every team I work for has a slack...
[20:51] <thafreak> "luckily" I'm only on like 2 other slack teams now for customers
[20:57] <thafreak> also, look what I stumbled upon today: http://gutuma.com/
[20:57] <thafreak> Someone left a DEBUG=True turned on by accident
[21:08] <YANO> that's not good


[02:09] <gdi2k> not a ubuntu question at all, but it is about servers, so maybe someone good advice: I want to buy a decent Intel dual-port NICs, and I see a lot of HP branded ones that are supposed to be for specific HP server platforms. Will these work in a generic server box, or are they somehow restricted to HP gear?
[02:10] <gdi2k> example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-NC360T-PCI-E-Dual-Port-Intel-Gigabit-Ethernet-NIC-412648-B21-412651-001-Clean-/181362132661?pt=US_Internal_Network_Cards&hash=item2a3a0686b5
[02:11] <pleia2> it'll work fine, HP has a pretty big networking division these days (bought some networkingy companies)
[02:12] <pleia2> sells NICs, switches, etc
[02:12] <gdi2k> pleia2, excellent, thank you
[02:12] <pleia2> sure thing
[08:35] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:20] <rabbel> Hey guys... I'm wondering if someone of you managed to do an automated install with USB stick..
[11:20] <rabbel> Because I didn't :)
[11:48] <lordievader> My /run is full. This is probably due to atop consuming ~400M on there. Can I simply remove the atop folder?
[11:49] <lordievader> In other words do programs expect data that is in /run to be there the next time they start?
[11:53] <lordievader> Ah debian bug #650222 is the problem.
[14:37] <Yud_Zroc> so is there a way to remotly connect to an ubuntu server from a windows client (Example user A is running windows 7, the server being ubuntu server 12.04)
[14:39] <Yud_Zroc> Preferably to manage it, not to just use FTP, or git/svn. The area where it will be set up will have no access to a mouse/keyboard/monitor
[14:40] <ikonia> just use ssh
[14:40] <Yud_Zroc> from what? cmd?
[14:40] <ikonia> any ssh client you want
[14:41] <Yud_Zroc> Ok, so ssh client must me installed on my windows machine to access it?
[14:41] <ikonia> yes
[14:41] <Yud_Zroc> got it, thankyou for pointing me in the right direction
[15:19] <rakesh__> hey i deleted the www folder as apache was not properly installed .now on installing apache (which system says is already installed) www folder does not show up.wat to do???
[16:03] <peyam> hi
[16:03] <peyam> I have a ubuntu server on my old computer
[16:03] <peyam> and I Want to put files there from my other computers
[16:04] <peyam> how do I do it? i already have installed vsftpd
[16:14] <teward> is there any step-by-step guide for setting up an email server complete with IMAP and SMTP?
[17:15] <peyam> hi again guys
[17:15] <peyam> I dcan log in to my ftp server
[17:16] <peyam> cant*
[17:28] <teward> peyam, i'm curious, why don't you just put SSH on your computer you're running ubuntu server on, then use the built-in SFTP?
[17:28] <teward> rather than set up a completely new FTP setup for it
[17:28] <teward> (you'll need an sftp client, but there's a ton of those that work)
[17:29] <peyam> teward, All im trying to di is to make a server and put movies in it so I can watch movies in other rooms
[17:29] <peyam> so I see a page that says "it works"
[17:29] <peyam> but its all and I dounno how to add files to it and see them there
[17:29] <teward> i think what you want is a media server kinda setup
[17:29] <peyam> yes
[17:30] <peyam> how do I fix it
[19:55] <peyam> hi
[19:55] <peyam> I have made a home server
[19:55] <peyam> I made a ftp server
[19:56] <peyam> now i want to know how my local users can see the content of the files uploaded to ftp. all I can see is the "IT WORKS" on my server page
[22:17] <karantzis> hi! is this the right place to ask some DNS questions?
[22:21] <RoyK> karantzis: it's the right place to ask ubuntu questiosn ;)
[22:21] <RoyK> karantzis: it's the right place to ask ubuntu questions ;)
[22:21] <RoyK> !ask | karantzis
[22:23] <karantzis> ok, here goes: 'im having an ubuntu server with domain example.com and would like to have it point subdomain.example.com to a different machine. How can one go implementing that?
[22:23] <karantzis> RoyK: using ubuntu server 12.04
[22:26] <RoyK> google bind delegation
[22:26] <RoyK> if you§re using bind, that is
[22:28] <karantzis> yes, i am. Thanks for the pointer RoyK
[22:34] <omrib> I'm having the weirdest problem with libvirt 1.1.1 from cloud-archive:havana repository. pip install libvirt-python==1.2.2 fails because /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lvirt-lxc: https://travis-ci.org/omribahumi/libvirt_metadata_api/builds/21847716
[22:36] <omrib> libvirt-python assumes libvirt lxc support is compiled in if libvirt version is >1.0.2. Is this assumption wrong, or is the libvirt-dev package broken?


[02:17] <ibeardslee> chilts: was it you that had got a System76 laptop?
[19:27] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:33] <ajmitch> morning
[22:10] <kcj> Morning.
[22:11] <chilts> ibeardslee: yep, got one last year ... I quite like it but tbh I haven't used it much
[22:11] <chilts> are you thinking of getting one?
[22:12] <ibeardslee> no, someone at work was asking about getting them in NZ
[22:13] <ibeardslee> https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1
[22:14] <ibeardslee> we are currently winding Lenovo up about Window-less laptops
[22:14] <ibeardslee> going through Silicon
[22:22] <chilts> cool
[23:55] <olly_> morning


[09:03] <gnomefreak> asac: bug 99684 is assigned to you. Maybe a patch caused this?
[09:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 99684 in firefox "Backspace key not ignored rather than displaying previous url in Firefox <IP_ADDRESS>" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99684
[11:14] <gnomefreak> asac: bug 49568 is assigned to you for now also. Mark it for KDE* if they need to make the package (if possible or whatever)
[11:14] <ubotu> Malone bug 49568 in mozilla-thunderbird "Thunderbird KDE-integration" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/49568
[04:42] <asac> gnomefreak: thx
[04:43] <asac> i am doing an "away from computer easter" ... fixing my back, by doing sports and *not* sit ... i will look at things tomorrow in the evening again
[04:44] <asac> actually what is 99684 about
[04:44] <asac> bug 99684
[04:44] <ubotu> Malone bug 99684 in firefox "Backspace key not ignored rather than displaying previous url in Firefox <IP_ADDRESS>" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99684
[04:44] <asac> have you reproduced?
[04:45] <gnomefreak> no i didnt hang on i forgot the report.
[04:46] <asac> hmm
[04:46] <asac> you have any idea what ubuntu 6.0.1 was?
[04:46] <gnomefreak> no
[04:47] <asac> i think its just a gone feature
[04:47] <asac> maybe mozilla dropped it in 1.0 or 1.5 or 2.0
[04:47] <asac> who knows
[04:47] <gnomefreak> iirc backspace did what he stated it did before <IP_ADDRESS> hit backspace and get URL goes back (like hitting the back buttom on browser
[04:47] <asac> its not important as you can use alt-cursor left to got back
[04:48] <asac> you mean it did it in <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[04:48] <gnomefreak> i think so hold on let me see if i have it in chroot
[04:48] <asac> i can't see that from report at lesat
[04:48] <asac> he upgraded straight maybe from fox 1.0.8 to 1.5.11 ... and then to <IP_ADDRESS>
[04:49] <asac> from that i won't be bothered if the feature is gone
[04:50] <gnomefreak> checking edgy also
[04:50] <asac> what i know
[04:50] <asac> and afaik that feature has always existed
[04:50] <asac> you can use space to scroll down
[04:50] <asac> and backspace to scroll up
[04:50] <asac> on a page
[04:51] <asac> that feature works
[04:51] <asac> its scroll up and down like pageup and pagedown
[04:52] <gnomefreak> in dapper it will go back
[04:52] <asac> ok but dapper it has 1.5
[04:52] <asac> so not a problem either
[04:53] <gnomefreak> using backspace will bring you to prevous page. correct
[04:53] <gnomefreak> i dont know
[04:53] <gnomefreak> he didnt test it on edgy only dapper
[04:53] <gnomefreak> and feisty
[04:53] <asac> nevermind ... its not a bug unless we know that it works with upstream binaries
[04:55] <gnomefreak> backspace on trunk doesnt eve scroll up page
[04:55] <gnomefreak> even
[04:55] <asac> yeah ... could be
[04:55] <gnomefreak> but doesnt do it in trunk either
[04:56] <asac> trunk might be broken :)
[04:56] <gnomefreak> :)
[04:56] <gnomefreak> i guess it was dapper i remeber it on
[04:56] <gnomefreak> remember*
[04:57] <gnomefreak> at 3am this moring i was confused on what he meant was main reason i gave it to you. maybe you knew that feature was disabled.
[04:58] <asac> i had no idea of that feature :)
[04:58] <gnomefreak> ;)
[04:58] <asac> nevertheless 2.0.0.x is stll pretty unstable
[04:59] <gnomefreak> i find it fairly stable but i dont do movies and stuff
[04:59] <asac> i somehow doubt if its really good to ship mozilla products before .6
[04:59] <asac> yeah
[04:59] <asac> but even my gf complains about ffox dying without reason ;)
[04:59] <asac> pretty often
[04:59] <asac> she doesn't do movies
[05:00] <asac> ok ... got to go. tomorrow i am again all with you :) ... well at least with 50% of pace.
[05:01] <gnomefreak> :) hav ea good holiday


[09:43] <justCarakas> can anybody help me with the "no network" bug on nexus 4 (mako) ?
[14:27] <Robin0_0Hood> Hello!
[17:27] <vthompson> If I'm trying to install stuff from a silo but am running into issues with the "/" partition becoming full (2 GB being used) is there a quick and (not) dirty way to free up space so that I can continue doing the upgrade?
[17:58] <vthompson> For my above issue, I'm just selectively removing packages in hopes that I don't break anything.... yipeeeeeee!
[20:16] <mariogrip> #Hype!!
[21:27] <Yay> Hello! I can't delete bookmark
[21:29] <matv1> In the browser you mean?
[21:29] <matv1> I think you can.
[21:30] <Yay> Yes in browser on specific bookmark I have issue on delete
[21:31] <Yay> Can I manually do it with file manager?
[21:33] <matv1> I am not sure what you mean. A bookmark in the browser is a star at the end of the adress bar. It can be highlited or un-highlighted
[21:34] <matv1> opening a new tab will show which urls are bookmarked
[21:36] <Yay> I was edited a URL and bookmarked it but it direct to a subfolder and wont deleted
[21:43] <jfred> trying ubuntu touch on an actual phone for the first time \o/
[21:43] <matv1> jfred yeahh :)
[21:44] <matv1> which phone?
[21:44] <jfred> nexus 4
[21:44] <matv1> cool there do still run pretty good
[21:44] <jfred> I now have two working phones so I can experiment with one while using the other
[21:44] <matv1> I prefer them still to the BQ
[21:44] <jfred> in case the experimental one breaks :P
[21:45] <matv1> same here!
[21:45] <matv1> you have 2 nexuses?
[21:45] <jfred> nope, the other is a nokia n900
[21:45] <matv1> ah but thats not running Ubuntu I guess
[21:45] <jfred> right, it's running maemo
[21:46] <jfred> I've been running sailfish on my nexus 4, but I figured I'd give ubuntu a try
[21:46] <matv1> cool hope you enjoy!
[21:46] <jfred> :)
[22:05] <ziggai> i wana install ubuntu on nokia lumia
[22:05] <k1l> arent the lumia devices locked on the bootloader side  anyway?
[22:06] <k1l> but the ubuntu needs at least working android  drivers. i doubt that there exist such drivers for linux for that devices
[22:24] <AbuDhar> hey
[22:24] <AbuDhar> when will we see a stable version of Ubuntu Touch?
[22:25] <tathhu> depends on what you mean by stable :P
[22:25] <AbuDhar> :P good question.
[22:25] <matv1> AbuDhar we have a stable version. It is just not aimed at general public yet
[22:26] <AbuDhar> when will it be aimed at general public?
[22:26] <AbuDhar> looking at a review of the Aquaris E4.5
[22:26] <matv1> ;P good question.
[22:26] <AbuDhar> but the developers are serious about this OS I think.
[22:27] <tathhu> when its readyTM?:D
[22:28] <AbuDhar> will it be a serious contender to the Android and iOS?
[22:28] <AbuDhar> to Android*
[22:29] <AbuDhar> I mean, is that the goal?
[22:29] <matv1> AbuDhar yes
[22:29] <matv1> with the added advantages of convergence
[22:30] <matv1> convergence is key in the longer run
[22:34] <AbuDhar> cool!
[22:35] <matv1> AbuDhar yes :)
[22:35] <AbuDhar> do you need devs?
[22:36] <matv1> absolutely
[22:36] <matv1> are you one?
[22:37] <AbuDhar> not 100%.
[22:37] <AbuDhar> I don't feel like one but I would like to develop my skills and help out.
[22:37] <matv1> everyone can help!
[22:37] <matv1> have you tried installing the SDK?
[22:38] <matv1> its really first class
[22:39] <AbuDhar> matv1, I will later.
[22:40] <matv1> awsum. hope you like it
[22:43] <AbuDhar> I want to develop apps for the OS.
[22:45] <matv1> any ideas specifically? or do you want to help out on maintaining and expanding existing apps?
[22:46] <AbuDhar> both.
[22:46] <matv1> cool
[22:46] <AbuDhar> which language are the apps written in?
[22:47] <matv1> native ones are mostly qt/qml
[22:47] <matv1> but webapps html5 are also very powerfull
[22:48] <matv1> if you wanna go deep you can do full c++ as well :)
[22:48] <matv1> qt qml can run full javascript inside it
[22:49] <matv1> qml is basically the interface part and javascript the actual worker for native apps
[22:50] <matv1> have you ever used any of these languages ?
[22:52] <AbuDhar> yeah.. javascript, html5 :)
[22:52] <AbuDhar> and a bit qt
[22:52] <matv1> awsum :)
[22:55] <jfred> Wishing the built-in messaging client supported XMPP, and spotted this in the messaging app code: "// FIXME: soon it will be more than just SIM cards, update the dialog accordingly"
[22:55] <jfred> that looks promising :D
[22:55] <AbuDhar> looking forward to the future of Ubuntu Touch.
[22:56] <jfred> indeed :)
[22:58] <matv1> although I am not sure that the core messaging app will be extended to xmpp
[22:58] <jfred> the backend it uses already does, so hopefully they're just making it a more generic frontend
[22:58] <jfred> because that's really all it needs
[22:59] <matv1> ok didnt know that :)  that is cool!
[23:01] <jfred> yup, it uses telepathy, and telepathy-gabble is the XMPP connection manager
[23:01] <AbuDhar> can't I use the ionic framework to build apps for Touch? :D
[23:03] <matv1> I am not sure. I am not actually much of a coder myself. Ionic I have not used
[23:07]  * matv1 is looking at ionic and likes what he sees
[23:10] <matv1> hmm ionic seems to be a sort of overlay for cordova if i understand it correctly right
[23:10] <matv1> cordova apps are supported through the sdk
[23:11] <AbuDhar> nice :)
[23:12] <AbuDhar> good night for now.
[23:12] <matv1> same :)
[23:15] <jfred> also relevant, telepathy has support for both XMPP and SIP audio calls, and video calls for XMPP
[23:16] <jfred> though that would need work to integrate with the UI as well
[23:21] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: (ahoneybun_) got new design at ubports.com, gonna make uni (where all pages have the the same design (not on wiki))
[23:34] <jfred> hmmm not sure what I think about the centralized push notifications
[23:36] <matv1> jfred how else would you want the os to integrate apps notifications?
[23:38] <matv1> what don't you like about it?
[23:39] <jfred> either a system for subscribing to notifications from the service directly, or encrypted with a device-specific key
[23:39] <jfred> I don't like that the push notification server can see the contents of all notifications it's handling
[23:39] <jfred> for example, if you were using an instant messenger and put the message contents in notifications, the push server could read all your messages
[23:41] <jfred> it's also a single point of failure for push notifications; if the server (or servers, presumably) goes down, no notifications for anyone