[00:04] <RAOF> Hm. When I'm blowing up code in 3rd_party I should probably move it under src/ shouldn't I.
[00:25] <kdub_> RAOF, tough call
[03:27] <RAOF> Oh, *that's* why you don't move anything from 3rd_party to src/
[03:27] <RAOF> It doesn't compile, because it generates hundreds of warning from ten or more different constructs. Hurray!
[04:46] <RAOF> “I killed him, cha cha cha”
[06:59] <RAOF> Alright. That's EOW for me. See yall Tuesday!
[08:31] <anpok_> alf_: would moving null, logging and lttng into report also imply that as another namespace level
[08:31] <anpok_> alf_: good morning
[08:56] <alf_> anpok_: good morning :) I would imagine something like mir::report in which null,logging,lttng implementation are all implementation details
[08:57] <alf_> anpok_: but not necessarily
[09:09] <anpok_> hi alan_g
[09:09] <alan_g> anpok_: ho
[09:09] <anpok_> alf_: implementation details - as there are no public headers? or no further namespaces?
[09:10] <alan_g> as in not needed by users of the class
[09:12] <anpok_> sure we will get there..
[09:13] <anpok_> just wanted to be sure about the details
[09:14] <alf_> anpok_: primarily the first, but also the second i.e., mir/report/default_configuration.cpp would implement all the_*_report() methods using class internal to the reporting component (logging, lttng)
[09:20] <anpok_> ah ok, I can see why, so all dependencies are in one direction..
[09:49] <alan_g> alf_: anpok_ any opinions?  https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/SwitchingBundle-controls-completion-of-client_acquire-without-blocking/+merge/204294
[09:57] <alf_> alan_g: looking
[10:22] <anpok_> i am a bit puzzled by having multiple compositors
[10:22] <anpok_> what would happen if we turn one screen off
[10:23] <anpok_> i mean we have one compositor per output?
[10:26] <greyback> alan_g: will you have a chance to look at bug 1276704 any time soon?
[10:27] <alan_g> greyback: I've just put it on today's list
[10:27] <greyback> alan_g: thanks
[10:54] <alf_> anpok_: we have multiple compositors (running in different threads) because 1. each output is backed by a different framebuffer that we need to draw to (exception: clone mode) 2. outputs have different vsync rates and vsync start offsets
[10:56] <anpok_> but when one compositor is stopped it will release all buffers?
[10:57] <anpok_> btw will you kill me for having mrn and mrl (mir::report::logging?
[10:58] <alf_> anpok_: we have one MultiThreadedCompositor that coordinates composition on all outputs, and each output is then handled by a (Default)DisplayBufferCompositor instance
[10:58] <alf_> anpok_: so which compositor are you referring to? :)
[11:02] <anpok_> alf_: ok puzzle solved
[11:03] <anpok_> it happens through the temporary compositor buffer being consumed as a shared ptr for the short time during composition
[11:06] <alf_> anpok_: @mrn,mrl, I don't mind as long as they are internal to report (although Alan may not share this preference?)
[11:08] <alan_g> Does "internal to report" mean in the same src directory?
[11:08] <anpok_> no in another directory underneath
[11:08] <anpok_> i just moved everthing below report
[11:09] <anpok_> yeah this time everything
[11:09] <anpok_> only lttng logging and null_*
[13:17] <alf_> rsalveti: Hi! I was thinking, for the dynamic backends, do you need runtime selection or package time selection (e.g., have a libmirplatformandroid and libmirplatformmesa that both provide libmirplatform)?
[13:19] <alf_> rsalveti: (runtime selection = being able to install both libmirplatformandroid and libmirplatformmesa at the same time and select the actual library at runtime)
[13:19] <rsalveti> alf_: any would do for now (as we have different seeds for desktop and touch), but later on it might be good to do that in runtime
[13:20] <rsalveti> in case someone installs the android one, and ends up breaking his desktop
[13:24] <alf_> rsalveti: the difference in mir code is minimal (since we will load server/clients backends at runtime), it's more of a packaging decision
[13:26] <rsalveti> ogra_: what do you think^?
[13:26] <alan_g> alf_: in case you've not noticed - there's still a little android/mesa code in frontend (chosen at build time).
[13:27] <rsalveti> ogra_: I don't think we have an official way yet to decide if we're in desktop or touch during runtime
[13:27] <alf_> alan_g: thanks, there is also a lot of code on the client that is chosen at build time :) (I am fixing both)
[13:29] <alan_g> :)
[13:30]  * ogra_ reads
[13:31] <ogra_> no, we dont have such a way *yet* but we will need one in the future ... for the time being selection via seeds will be fine
[13:31] <ogra_> as long as we dont tie us in with that for the future (i.e. if it still stays an easy switch i guess it is fine to re-visit in 15.04 or 15.10, whatever will have the merged seeds)
[14:17] <kgunn> rsalveti: atm isn't there at least some android version/value that can be interrogated ?
[14:18] <kgunn> e.g. we have hwc1.0, 1.1 as well...and if no android present you're on desktop...couldn't that be the logic ?
[14:18] <kgunn> alf_: ^
[14:28] <alf_> kgunn: probably
[14:34] <alan_g> greyback: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/fix-1276704/+merge/205357
[14:34] <greyback> alan_g: nice, thank you
[15:07] <alf_> rsalveti: is the fix for bug 127662 enough to unblock you until we get dynamic backends?
[15:07] <alf_> rsalveti: hmm, bug 1276621
[15:09] <anpok|lunch> alf_: alan_g: I need a name - a factory that creates reports based on the program options / server options ..
[15:09] <rsalveti> alf_: yeah, trying that today
[15:09] <rsalveti> alf_: ogra_: but it should just be easier for now to have a separated package
[15:10] <rsalveti> and we can land it faster as well
[15:10] <alf_> rsalveti: sure
[15:10] <alf_> anpok|lunch: ReportFactory ?
[15:12] <alan_g> I understand the reluctance to use "Factory" - if there's something less generic than a pattern name it should be preferred
[15:13] <alan_g> is this an function, a class interface, an implementation, ...?
[15:13] <alan_g> *a function
[15:17] <ogra_> yeah, shiny is for later :)
[15:17] <anpok|lunch> alf_: thats the interface
[15:18] <anpok|lunch> alan_g: it is just an aggregation of three of those implementations .. for null reports logging and lttng..
[15:18] <anpok|lunch> it just delegates to the real ones ..
[15:20] <alan_g> Then surely the interface is AbstractFactory?
[15:20]  * alan_g winces
[15:21] <alan_g> ReportSelector?
[15:22] <anpok> yes that would be fine for me, but thats like the generic version of the "er"-rule for turning verbs into nouns
[15:23] <anpok> but since you proposed it, the rule cannot be applied by yourself
[15:24] <anpok> oh... thank you!
[15:24] <anpok> that thing does not need to implement the factory interface.
[17:13] <alf_> kdub: Is mga::FBTargetLayerList::reset_composition_layers() going to be generally useful in the future? It's only used in the tests right now.
[17:38] <alan_g> kgunn: looks like you're getting ready to land stuff. I think greyback would like this included if it gets reviewed: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/fix-1276704/+merge/205357
[17:41] <greyback> kgunn: that I would, but landing it will demand a unity-mir rebuild since it changes server API
[18:40] <anpok> alan_g: still there?
[21:02] <bregma> hey guys, I'm trying to run Unity8 on the desktop and I don't have any kind of cursor anywhere ... is there something I need to do in Mir or is it the shell layer that's expected to handle that in software now?


[06:17] <mapp> hi all:D
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:11] <SuperMatt> ing
[08:11] <SuperMatt> *ning
[09:58] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Day of Unplugging! :-D
[10:00]  * bashrc remains plugged
[10:07]  * davmor2 unplugs his router and blames JamesTait for his lack of internet when his boss is online :D
[10:08]  * JamesTait enjoys the peace and tranquility. ;)
[10:15] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:29] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:29] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[10:29] <bigcalm> I got Ubuntu 14.04.2 installed on my new Dell XPS 8700 by disabling Secure Boot and wiping out all of the existing partitions on the HDD.
[10:30] <popey> \o/
[10:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: 64bit should of installed with secureboot in place
[10:30] <bigcalm> I've installed the nvidia-current driver and rebooted. I get the lightgdm login screen and can enter my password. After that I have a moving mouse pointer, but nothing else
[10:30] <bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, but it didn't
[10:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: were you trying to boot from usb or dvd?
[10:31] <bigcalm> davmor2: USB. It would give me a grub screen but selecting any of the options resulted in a blank screen and nothing more.
[10:32] <bigcalm> davmor2: only by disabling Secure Boot could I progress any further
[10:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: did you file a bug for that
[10:32] <bigcalm> davmor2: No, I wanted to get on with my life
[10:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: 64bit should in theory just work
[10:33] <bigcalm> Anyway
[10:33] <bigcalm> I have an installed machine now
[10:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: how new is the gfx card it might be that you would need to enable the xteams ppa to get the right driver
[10:33] <bigcalm> But installing the nvidia drivers has resulted in unity not starting
[10:34] <bigcalm> GeForce GTX 750 Ti
[10:52] <davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xCd55oSgO4  you need to do this for your kids :D
[10:55] <Myrtti> difficult choices in life, I might have accidentally broken the SIM pins on hubbys old Galaxy Nexus. He might be in the market for a cheap-ish second smartphone for traveling. Firefox, Fire or Ubuntu. plah.
[10:55] <Myrtti> also: thank goddess for superglue
[10:56] <popey> hehe
[10:58] <Myrtti> if someone ever tells you that they're getting their first ever acrylic nails just few days before a big event and they are crafty people with hands on attitude, tell them they're doing a bad mistake
[10:58] <Myrtti> BAD mistake
[10:59] <Myrtti> massive.
[10:59] <foobarry> nail varnish remover is the antidote to super glue innit?
[11:00] <Myrtti> sure, but I don't want it to come off.
[11:01] <Myrtti> I had acrylic nails done two weeks ago. Last two came off yesterday and day before, after catching into my hair from the dislodged part near the cuticles.
[11:02] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I had to put my ThinkPad into legacy mode to have a 64-bit Kubuntu install work; simply assumed it was me being stupid.
[11:02] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Have you gone in via a TTY and checked the logs? You might see an error that gives a clue to the issue.
[11:03] <Myrtti> on their way out the acrylic nails split my actual nail few fractions of a millimeter on the wrong place. the pain in the nail bed isn't fun, kids.
[11:07] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I've only had issues similar to what describe with more bleeding-edge nvidia drivers (i.e. > v340). I assume you are running stock.
[11:07] <bigcalm> I've ended up with xorg-edgers ppa and installed nvidia-346. Working system now
[11:11] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Neat. I pinned my drivers to 340 to stop things breaking. Maybe I'll chance 346, but I have a much other card (GT240).
[11:16] <bigcalm> I try to avoid xorg-edgers when I can. Don't always have such up to date hardware :)
[11:20] <bashrc> this weekend I will be mostly trying Ubuntu MATE
[11:40] <MooDoo> bashrc: it's not bad actually, I tried it the other day
[11:46]  * popey is downloading Ubuntu Mate 14.04.2 to test :)
[11:47] <bigcalm> I keep 32bit UM on a USB stick on my keyring. Always handy to have. Used it to demo at the LUG and converted a distro hopper who had previously left Ubuntu because of the dislike of Unity
[11:56] <bigcalm> Hello from the new machine!
[11:57]  * bigcalm slowly transfers his work life from his personal laptop to the office workstation
[11:57] <bigcalm> I didn't need to be productive today or anything
[11:58] <zmoylan-pi> can't you work while files are transferred in background.  it's not windows were everything grinds t a halt when you transfer a teraabyte or 3
[11:58] <bigcalm> No, I have to install all of the programs for my dev life
[11:59] <bigcalm> And set-up VMs
[12:02] <zmoylan-pi> that's still work
[12:02] <bigcalm> But not "billable" work
[12:04] <zmoylan-pi> well read http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt to determine how to decide what is productive :-)
[12:08] <TwistedLucidity> Often wondered about using Puppet (or something) to try and script all that.
[12:08] <TwistedLucidity> But then I need it to work on Windows as well, and promptly lost the will to live.
[13:30] <SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/rIomO
[13:32] <Myrtti> butterup butter knife arrived.
[13:32] <Myrtti> hm.
[13:35] <Azelphur> Well, this is pretty hilarious, technically speaking my own company just tried to recruit me
[13:36] <Azelphur> Company A owns a 30% stake in Company I work for, Company A just sent me an email trying to hire me lmao
[13:36] <Azelphur> tempting to write back "I already work for you, say hi to <boss> for me"
[13:42] <davmor2> hey bigcalm isn't billable one of the characters from lord of the rings?
[14:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: yes
[14:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: Three main characters are billable feefor yourbadadmin
[14:22] <bigcalm> The last one is lost on me
[14:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: your bad admin
[14:26] <bigcalm> Nope, still don't get it
[15:09] <davmor2> popey: today is the 33 anniversary of this amazing track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cD9cBEaNBc and I know you'll a) listen to it and b) sing along :)
[15:12] <daftykins> hey all
[15:12] <daftykins> i have a very specific challenge to provide a windows 98 laptop with floppy drive and serial port for my aircraft engineer mate
[15:12] <daftykins> does anyone have such an era machine kicking around gathering dust? :)
[15:14] <knightwise> daftykins: thats a tough one
[15:15] <daftykins> indeed :D
[15:16] <foobarry> virtualbox?
[15:16] <foobarry> does that pass serial port?
[15:17] <foobarry> daftykins: i did have one until recently, a lovely thinkpad 600e
[15:17] <daftykins> :O
[15:18] <daftykins> nah it needs to be a proper laptop, to carry onto planes
[15:18] <foobarry> great scren on it, still worked nice after 15 years
[15:18] <daftykins> foobarry: didn't take it out behind the barn and put it out of its' misery, did you?
[15:18] <foobarry> gave it to my friend to take to zimbabwe
[15:19] <foobarry> along with bunch of other laptops
[15:19] <daftykins> ;_;
[15:20] <foobarry> i'm sure ebay is chock full of them at less than 20 quid
[15:21] <daftykins> well i'm browsing but it's tough to find something that isn't broken or is just parts
[15:21] <foobarry> ask a local uni?
[15:21] <foobarry> probably got a room full
[15:21] <daftykins> hehe, i'm on an island sir
[15:21] <foobarry> he
[15:21] <foobarry> school
[15:21] <daftykins> mmm maybe, my ol' head of IT at a College of higher ed. might have something relevant
[15:22] <hazrpg> Hey all \o
[15:22] <foobarry> hi
[15:22] <shauno> o/
[15:22] <foobarry> how are you
[15:22] <hazrpg> not too bad, how's you?
[15:22] <foobarry> old, but good
[15:24] <hazrpg> ^_^ we all get old someday
[15:24] <hazrpg> The most important thing is always your health :)
[15:25] <hazrpg> Just wondering if someone would help me diagnose why ubuntu has been freezing a lot on me recently
[15:26] <hazrpg> I keep blaming chrome... however I'm not sure if that's the true cause, because surely chrome tabs and extensions should just crash themselves not the whole OS
[15:27] <foobarry> do you have swap sapce?
[15:27] <hazrpg> foobarry: yeah, I'd be insane not to :P
[15:28] <foobarry> its overrated
[15:28] <foobarry> :P
[15:28] <foobarry> which is probably why i get hangups
[15:28] <foobarry> but swap space just delays the problem
[15:28] <hazrpg> foobarry: actually, now that you say that - htop says I have 0/0 swap o.O
[15:28] <foobarry> if you are using too much
[15:28] <foobarry> free -m
[15:28] <hazrpg> but I know I definitely have a swap partition (always make it!)
[15:29] <foobarry> sudo swapon -s
[15:29] <popey> daftykins: thinkpad x61 off ebay
[15:29] <hazrpg> sudo swapon -s returns nothing
[15:29] <popey> would run win98 just lovely
[15:29] <popey> oh, floppy is a problem
[15:29] <popey> usb :)
[15:29] <foobarry> hazrpg haz no swap
[15:30] <foobarry> probably why you get hangs
[15:30] <hazrpg> foobarry: indeed...
[15:31] <popey> daftykins: the hardest part is getting all the software updates after you install win98se
[15:31] <popey> because the windows update service is shut down i think
[15:31] <daftykins> popey: won't need any though
[15:32] <popey> even stuff like .net and other libs?
[15:32] <daftykins> it just needs to run this ghetto plane software to pull data over serial from an ATR aircraft :>
[15:32] <popey> right
[15:32] <hazrpg> foobarry: I'll be honest, I'm baffled, because I clearly have 6GB swap partition - just checked with gparted
[15:32] <daftykins> lol .NET on 98?
[15:32] <popey> yeah
[15:32] <popey> .net runtime
[15:32] <popey> anway, not needed
[15:32] <foobarry> check /etc/fstab
[15:32] <popey> i installed windows 3.11 on a usb stick recently :)
[15:32] <daftykins> :D
[15:32] <popey> http://i.imgur.com/9MVKdPG.jpg
[15:33] <popey> and gem desktop
[15:33] <popey> http://i.imgur.com/uFIoyDv.jpg
[15:33] <foobarry> sudo swapon <swap partition>
[15:33] <daftykins> i've got an old 12" Dell latitude LS400, but it needs a docking station to provide a serial port. and those'd likely require mains power to run wouldn't they?
[15:33] <daftykins> i've never owned a docking station
[15:33] <popey> the dock would, yes
[15:33] <popey> usb floppy?
[15:33] <daftykins> mmm that's a no-go then
[15:33] <popey> they're 10 a penny
[15:33] <foobarry> any old laptop will have dead battery
[15:34] <popey> yeah, unless thinkpad, in which case you can get replacements
[15:34] <daftykins> wouldn't there be issues having ghetto software seeing a USB floppy on windows 98 as the true floppy drive?
[15:34] <popey> nah, it just shows up as A:
[15:34] <popey> bios sees it
[15:34] <daftykins> i'd be a little wary of expecting that to fly, given a 98 era machine though
[15:34] <hazrpg> foobarry: I'll be honest, fstab has recently baffled me too of late - in the past it use to use /dev/sd* but now it uses UUID which I can never quite get my head around (I know what it is, just /dev/sd* made more sense to me)
[15:34] <daftykins> USB would probably be exotic enough as is :D
[15:35] <popey> i used to use a usb floppy on win98
[15:35] <hazrpg> foobarry: fstab clearly has a line for swap though
[15:35] <popey> on a sony vaio
[15:35] <popey> which had no other option
[15:35] <daftykins> hazrpg: heh, but it was too susceptible to disk changes
[15:35] <daftykins> popey: ah, good to know
[15:35] <hazrpg> foobarry: # swap was on /dev/sda3 during installation, followed by the line below it for the swap part
[15:36] <hazrpg> daftykins: true, I know what you mean - but it still made more sense :P
[15:36] <daftykins> i don't see any harm in a quick 'sudo blkid' and UUID check
[15:37] <daftykins> not the most editable of things, granted ;D
[15:37] <daftykins> in fact if i were CLI only and having to change one, i'd probably end up using paper :S
[15:37] <hazrpg> daftykins: I didn't know that command - cheers for that :)
[15:38] <daftykins> ^_^ np
[15:40] <hazrpg> daftykins: thanks for that command btw, seems my UUID for the swap changed
[15:40] <daftykins> 0o
[15:41] <daftykins> keep an fstab backup as-is just in case
[15:41] <hazrpg> daftykins: indeed ;)
[15:44] <hazrpg> I wonder what would have caused that to change o.O
[15:49] <hazrpg> going to reboot to see if that new fstab works, back shortly
[15:52] <hazrpg> seems that sorted out the fstab :)
[15:52] <hazrpg> still don't understand why my system has recently been hanging up/freezing though
[15:53] <hazrpg> it's always something different in the /var/log/syslog
[15:56] <foobarry> will stop hanging now
[15:56] <foobarry> *maybe
[16:52] <daftykins> heh i've found a nice Dell C800... in Nebraska
[16:53] <zmoylan-pi> shipping will cost a fortune :-)
[16:53] <daftykins> it oddly enough comes up as £15 on ebay
[16:53] <daftykins> but yeah i would rather not go that far afield if possible
[16:54] <diddledan> C800? isn't that a rather large freight plane?
[16:54] <daftykins> :>
[16:54] <diddledan> in which case it'll deliver itself :-p
[16:55] <zmoylan-pi> no you load it up in the antonov 225 and they air drop it on your doorstep
[17:00] <daftykins> any recommendations'd be handy, this task seems quite hard
[17:00] <daftykins> so it's any laptop that'll run win98, with a floppy drive and serial port
[17:01] <zmoylan-pi> go to your nearest recycle centre and see if they have one lying around?
[17:01] <daftykins> ;]
[17:01] <zmoylan-pi> as a doorstep even :-)
[17:05] <diddledan> teehee: https://plus.google.com/111403714821787277067/posts/2K3BY1NMp7V
[17:06] <zmoylan-pi> that's old, i think it wants a bitcoin miner these days too :-)
[17:07] <diddledan> it's just reared it's head for mac users tho
[17:07] <diddledan> from yesterday (us time) http://www.zdnet.com/article/oracle-extends-its-adware-bundling-to-include-java-for-macs/
[17:09] <diddledan> Myrtti, I'm intrigued by your bouquet requiring charging
[17:10] <Myrtti> I'll probably participate in Adafruit show and tell session and blog about it later ;-)
[17:10] <diddledan> \o/
[17:14] <Myrtti> I've got one request for a write-up already from a FinnIsh maker fanzine
[17:14] <Myrtti> stupid predictive text
[17:14] <diddledan> ooh, nice one!
[17:15] <Azelphur> Anyone electronicsy know where I might pick up one of these micro switches? https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=096a2e5364b88925ab763868ec90d62e
[17:22] <shauno> the blue bit?
[17:22] <Azelphur> shauno: nah, bluish green, the one with 3S1802A on the side
[17:23] <shauno> probably something like http://uk.farnell.com/omron-electronic-components/ss-01/microswitch-spdt-pin-30vdc-0-1a/dp/1829514
[17:23] <shauno> but you'll want to look around 'subminature pin-plunger' to find the best match
[17:23] <davmor2> Azelphur: maplins
[17:23] <shauno> (eg, how many connections come out the bottom, and what lines up, and blah blah.  make sure it fits)
[17:24] <Azelphur> shauno: tbh I have no clue of what that is, I might need a little education :)
[17:29] <ujjain> does theather monkey have a green seat map or only reviews?
[17:30] <Azelphur> shauno: certainly looks like the right part, just as you say may not fit
[17:35] <diddledan> googley play-doh is giving away fast and furious for free
[17:35] <diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/movies/details/Fast_and_Furious
[17:35] <shauno> Azelphur, that's the problem .. there's characteristics you can't see from there.  like whether it has big flat legs or straight pins, or ..
[17:37] <Azelphur> shauno: oh wow, so I did a google search and I found someone replacing the middle button (not left as I want to do) but boatloads of photos, http://rellinger.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/replacing-middle-button-on-logitech.html
[17:38] <Azelphur> I might do the middle too tbh with that info, my middle is a bit funky.
[17:39] <Azelphur> shauno: last photo clearly shows the underside of the board too though
[17:39] <daftykins> i have a couple of those M570s for the boss
[19:07] <IhaveScreenArtif> Judging from me user name you may have figured out i have screen artifacts after a series of updates.
[19:07] <IhaveScreenArtif> i need help
[19:08] <ali1234> what kind of artifacts?
[19:08] <ali1234> what graphics card and what did you update to/from?
[19:09] <daftykins> either that or you have screen art
[19:09] <IhaveScreenArtif> i dont know what i updated from.
[19:09] <diddledan> daftykins, only conditional art
[19:11] <IhaveScreenArtif> and i dont know what graphics card i have
[19:11] <daftykins> "lspci | pastebinit" to share with the group, IhaveScreenArtif
[19:11] <daftykins> you may have to install pastebinit first
[19:12] <IhaveScreenArtif> i need to install it
[19:14] <IhaveScreenArtif> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10552136/
[19:14] <daftykins> hmm intel Q35
[19:15] <IhaveScreenArtif> really old?
[19:15] <diddledan> intel should be well-supported, no?
[19:15] <ali1234> diddledan: it's well supported if you have a headless server
[19:15] <daftykins> XD
[19:49] <IhaveScreenArtif> it seems like for now the so called screen artifacts cant be seen
[19:50] <diddledan> take a screen shot :-p
[19:50] <diddledan> I did that to show someone the huge moth that had landed on my monitor
[19:59]  * bashrc is running on Ubuntu MATE
[20:01] <popey> \o/
[20:02] <bashrc> it's like going back in time to 10.10
[20:02] <zmoylan-pi> arrrrrrrrr
[20:03] <IhaveScreenArtif> has anyone decided what party your going to  vote in the general elections?
[20:03] <bashrc> eh, well, maybe
[20:03] <daftykins> not my government :D
[20:04] <IhaveScreenArtif> im sure your pro europe
[20:04] <popey> !politics
[20:04] <popey> :)
[20:04] <bashrc> I'm a people person
[20:06] <IhaveScreenArtif> who on earth will have Tesco broadband
[20:07] <Myrtti> nobody nowadays, it's all TalkTalk
[20:07] <IhaveScreenArtif> no, its BT
[20:07] <Myrtti> http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2015/01/talktalk-to-take-over-tesco-broadband-and-home-phone-customers
[20:15]  * zmoylan-pi has tesco mobile in ireland and hopes the 3 and o2 merger doesn't muck things up too much.  i saw a price change sms in last week
[20:15] <zmoylan-pi> tesco mobile is run as a mvpn on o2's network
[20:20] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSDPOvtPi5s
[20:21] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, mvpn?
[20:21]  * zmoylan-pi loans them my bow and arrows to do real damage to their server fort :-)
[20:22] <zmoylan-pi> a mobile network that is virtual in that it has no masts of its own but rents space on another companies.
[20:22] <daftykins> it's MVNO i think? mobile virtual network operator
[20:22] <diddledan> not one of these then: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk828/tech_digest09186a00801a64a3.html
[20:23] <diddledan> this might be a more readable version: http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=32100&seqNum=3
[20:23] <zmoylan-pi> my bad mvno. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator
[20:33] <daftykins> nothing like a good wiki salt
[20:33] <daftykins> ;)
[20:42] <diddledan> wikiwikiwiki oi oi oi
[20:47] <Myrtti> wakawaka
[20:47] <diddledan> pacman?
[21:47] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMnb4-t8vo <-- first couple of minutes where he talks about "hate driven development" .. funny


[13:33] <rweb> #kicad
 I got a different mouse and scrolling on volume works fine. It goes up/down by 3% in my case. But that most probably depends on settings. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <idovecer>  The mouse and scrolling work fine elsewhere, but in the system tray on voplume icon, it only responds if I scroll very vigorously. It's impossible to finely adjust the volume. Is this a problem with the mouse or with Lubuntu?)


[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:16] <maxwellian> dholbach: What do you think about the feedback on your "Field Experiment" regarding fixing bugs?
[08:18] <dholbach> maxwellian: I'll write something up in a couple of days - I didn't get heaps of feedback yet
[08:18] <dholbach> most folks did not use any docs but just did something
[08:20] <maxwellian> dholbach: I'd like to try it myself.  I've started the process of trying to learn before, but I think I was confused by the various documentation.  It seems like once I figure it out I'm going to have to write something for myself just so I know how I did it.
[08:20] <dholbach> if you could note down how you go about and how it works out I'd appreciate it
[08:21] <dholbach> very brief notes are OK :)
[08:21] <maxwellian> dholbach: Hmm...I tend to be a bit verbose at times, actually, but I can scale back if need be... :P
[08:22] <dholbach> thanks a bunch!
[08:22] <maxwellian> dholbach: I know this is up somewhere, but where's the place to find easy bugs to fix?  Since I'm new?
[08:23] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted should list where to go
[08:24] <maxwellian> Yes, I've seen that.  Thanks, and thanks for all of your work.  You are pretty much the "face" of Ubuntu for me, since you're the only person whose face I've seen and whose name I recognize. ;)
[08:26] <dholbach> thanks for the flowers, but there's so many cleverer people in Ubuntu and people who do much more important things in Ubuntu :)
[08:27] <lifeless> they aren't as cute
[08:28]  * lifeless failed to provide humour, he thinks
[08:28] <dholbach> lifeless: err, thanks
[08:28] <dholbach> :-P
[08:28]  * dholbach hugs lifeless
[08:28] <lifeless> :)
[08:29] <maxwellian> lifeless: Heh. :)  Anyway, thanks for your time!
[08:40] <bilalakhtar> dholbach: did you see the recent comment in bug #601865
[08:40] <dholbach> bilalakhtar: no, I'm afraid I didn't - I got busy with a bunch of other stuff :)
[08:41] <bilalakhtar> dholbach: ok, np
[08:41] <dholbach> bilalakhtar: "Export KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT=1 in debian/rules so that the l10n stuff doesn't break the build" to me sounds like there should be a one-line change in debian/rules
[08:41] <dholbach> no?
[08:42] <bilalakhtar> dholbach: no, this change was made in a previous version
[08:42] <dholbach> JontheEchidna: ^?
[08:43] <dholbach> bilalakhtar: maybe you can discuss with JontheEchidna
[08:43] <bilalakhtar> dholbach: actually I copied the changelog line from the previous version
[08:43] <bilalakhtar> ok
[08:43] <bilalakhtar> JontheEchidna: u there?
[08:43] <bilalakhtar> or I will wait. no need to come on this channel
[08:44] <bilalakhtar> BTW, what is the preferred method of fixing bugs? Should I make a patch and attach it to bug report? or make branch and request merge?
[08:46] <dholbach> bilalakhtar: I personally find branches to work better, especially because the workflow is always roughly the same (if you do a quick fix, if you do a big merge, if you do an update to a new upstream version, etc. etc.)
[08:47] <bilalakhtar> dholbach: But I have noticed that debdiffs attached to bug reports get sponsored more quickly than stacked branches. is it true?
[08:48] <dholbach> bilalakhtar: I dunno, james_w: ^? :)
[09:59] <dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication => does this look fine enough ? :)
[10:10] <Riddell> hmm, that didn't work
[10:11] <Riddell> plugging https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[11:23] <dupondje> Riddell: did you check my note on the imagemagick bug ?
[11:37] <Riddell> dupondje: not closely, will do later today I hope, don't let me forget
[12:19] <dupondje> Riddell: it just needs 3 seconds imo :) just need to know if there was a specific reason you added Don't build-dep on librsvg, it brings in excessive dependencies :)
[12:20] <Riddell> dupondje: I didn't include a great changelog did I?  I think it's because it depends on gtk and we don't want gtk on the kubuntu CD
[12:20] <Riddell> but I don't think we have imagemagick on the Kubuntu CD now (and gtk is brought in anyway by openoffice)
[12:22] <dupondje> so it should be safe to drop? then we can just sync imagemagick from debian :)
[12:23] <Riddell> but we do have libmagickcore2 on the CD, does adding back librsvg to imagemagick make libmagickcore2 depeend on librsvg?
[12:36] <JontheEchidna> dholbach, Yes, that change is the one-line export in debian/rules
[12:42] <dupondje> Riddell: seems not http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/libmagickcore3, but I should check with rebuilding it on maverick
[12:43] <dupondje> its libmagickcore3 instead of libmagickcore2 also btw
[13:38] <dholbach> JontheEchidna: do you think you can follow up on that bug report?
[13:38] <dholbach> bug 601865
[13:38] <JontheEchidna> dholbach: did we figure out why the debdiff is so huge?
[13:39] <dholbach> JontheEchidna: I guess the other change is autogenerated or something
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> :s
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> I don't think it is. Looks pretty deliberate to me, and should be documented as a difference
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> anyways, I'll put that in the report :)
[13:41]  * dholbach hugs JontheEchidna
[13:42]  * sebner waves at JontheEchidna
[13:42] <JontheEchidna> o/
[13:42] <sebner> JontheEchidna: any plans to backport k3b final release to lucid?
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> That would be a good idea
[13:43] <sebner> ;-)
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> I'll look in to it today :)
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't be too hard. Might even be a no-change backport
[13:44] <sebner> great
[13:44]  * sebner hugs JontheEchidna :)
[13:45]  * JontheEchidna feels hugged :)
[13:45] <sebner> lol
[13:46] <dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication => does this look fine enough ? :)
[13:49] <JontheEchidna> eh, should only need a few build-deps bumped down, and another minor change or two
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> sebner: https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+archive/staging/+build/1858501 :)
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> will file a backport request shortly
[14:18] <sebner> JontheEchidna: :)
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> anybody with a lucid install handy able to test the k3b backport? https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+archive/staging/+packages
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> comments in bug 602733 would be appreciated
[14:54] <sebner> JontheEchidna: I can test install and startup but not burning
[14:55] <ScottK> sebner: As long as it runs, that's enough.
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> yeah, if it at least runs nothing should be too catastrophically wrong to break burning
[14:56] <sebner> sebner@ubuntu:~$ sudo gdebi *.deb
[14:56] <sebner> Reading package lists... Done
[14:56] <sebner> Building dependency tree
[14:56] <sebner> Reading state information... Done
[14:56] <sebner> Building data structures... Done
[14:56] <sebner> :P
[14:59] <Rhonda> Ah, should really get used to gdebi. I am used to dpkg -i and firing up aptitude afterwards if something went wrong.
[14:59] <Rhonda> and you named your how "ubuntu"?  Done
[15:07] <sebner> Building dependency tree
[15:07] <sebner> Reading state information... Done
[15:07] <sebner> Building data structures... Done
[15:07]  * sebner catches some pastebin
[15:09] <JontheEchidna> is that all it says?
[15:11] <sebner> JontheEchidna: aye, I'll try to install using your ppa directly
[15:12] <Rhonda> sebner: dpkg --info on the file?
[15:12] <sebner> JontheEchidna: http://pastebin.com/UpNdu5HZ
[15:12] <sebner> Rhonda: see above :P
[15:13] <JontheEchidna> sebner: I think your install is broken, 4.4.2 is what was released with lucid
[15:13] <Rhonda> How far above?
[15:13] <sebner> w00t
[15:13] <JontheEchidna> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/kde4libs
[15:13] <sebner> JontheEchidna: I don't even use kde (apps) normally xD
[15:15] <sebner> JontheEchidna: I'm sorry
[15:15]  * sebner -> head -> desk
[15:16] <sebner> JontheEchidna: I installed vlc1.1 from maverick some weeks ago. I guess it pulled in some new unstable qt stuff
[15:16] <JontheEchidna> aah, that'd probably do it
[15:16] <JontheEchidna> thanks for trying, anyway :)
[15:16] <sebner> JontheEchidna: mind filing a backport for vlc too? I was to lazy to make an backport upload myself :P
[15:17] <sebner> *too
[15:17] <JontheEchidna> I'm not really familiar with vlc's packaging at all...
[15:17] <JontheEchidna> never touched it, in fact
[15:17]  * sebner bounces siretart
[16:48] <dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication => does this look file ?
[16:50] <geser> dupondje: just get some endorsements from your sponsors (the more the better)
[16:50] <dupondje> feel free :D
[16:55] <dupondje> if you want to :)
[17:28] <ari-tczew> dupondje: don't you think that your application is too early?
[18:43] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu Tutorials day in 20 minutes in #kubuntu-devel https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[19:48] <RainCT> Hi
[19:49] <ScottK> Hello RainCT.
[19:49] <RainCT> Got a mail about having access to some ubuntu-font-beta-testing PPA. Is that because of some group membership? (Just wondering).
[19:49] <Laney> ubuntu-members afaik
[19:50] <RainCT> Laney: OK, thanks for the info. That's the one I'd have guessed :). It wouldn't hurt if Launchpad's notifications included some more info..
[19:50] <geser> RainCT: see planet ubuntu
[19:58] <tumbleweed> can I have another MOTU review my fix to Bug #358298, please? It's not a particularly elegant solution
[20:29] <RainCT> tumbleweed: Uhm, Upstart may have something to let it wait until the network is up...
[20:31] <tumbleweed> RainCT: yeah, that means porting to upstart, though
[20:31] <tumbleweed> this fix is still vaguely appropriate to debian
[20:32] <tumbleweed> another problem is we don't know what interface we are waiting for
[20:35] <RainCT> tumbleweed: Actually, isn't this something the daemon itself should handle?   What happens if the network connection goes away, does it die then?
[20:36] <RainCT> Anyway, I have no idea what I'm talking about :)
[20:38] <tumbleweed> RainCT: yeah, I think most other things in a similar situation handle it themselves. don't think it dies
[20:38] <tumbleweed> thanks though
[20:39] <RainCT> No problem. By the way, is anyone here coming to GUADEC?


[07:00] <pstolowski> Mornings
[07:56] <zyga> hey ho
[07:57] <Chipaca> let's go
[08:06] <zyga> morning :-)
[08:06] <zyga> overcast but warm today
[08:07] <zyga> Chipaca: I wrote down my thoughts on daemon-notify: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/its-a-little-bit-hard-to-use-daemon-notify-for-sd-notify/6366
[08:07] <zyga> also did a tweet storm on twitter :)
[08:07] <Chipaca> zyga: I saw your tweets
[08:07] <Chipaca> zyga: also yesterday's
[08:07] <Chipaca> zyga: keep it up :-)
[08:07] <zyga> thank you for the encouragement :)
[08:07] <zyga> I was wondering if those are useful
[08:08] <zyga> and how long I will keep it up
[08:12] <zyga> uh, Guido resigned from Python
[08:12] <zyga> that's a biggie
[08:13] <Chipaca> zyga: he got his calendar wrong, it's not april 1
[08:13] <Chipaca> maybe it's some crazy dutch version of april fool's
[08:13] <zyga> I envision he will pick up gardening now
[08:13] <zyga> or sheep
[08:13] <Chipaca> like april fool's but more racist
[08:14] <zyga> so, the bottom line is
[08:14] <zyga> if you do something for fun and love
[08:14] <zyga> don't let others tell you how
[08:14] <zyga> I cannot imagine how he must feel
[08:16] <Chipaca> zyga: and now you know why snapd team doesn't have a line manager
[08:42] <popey> zyga: is there any particular reason you're doing long tweet threads rather than blog posts recently?
[08:43] <zyga> popey: experimenting with the format mainly
[08:43] <popey> If you collated those tweets together, they'd probably make great blog posts for snapcraft.io/blog
[08:43] <zyga> popey: I may do both actually, since the text can live in two places
[08:43] <zyga> mmm, I can do that
[08:43] <popey> we'd love to have more content there which is technical and approachable
[08:43] <zyga> I'll do a hybrid twitter/blog post today and we can see how that can show up on snapcraft.io
[08:44] <popey> we make quite a bit of effort to get the blog posts out there. your tweets will die overnight, "nobody" will see them
[08:44] <popey> the blogs will live on, and can be re-shared (if they're evergreen)
[08:44] <zyga> evergreen?
[08:44] <popey> timeless
[08:45] <zyga> ah
[08:45] <pedronis> well afaiu zyga's is tweeting about work in  progress work
[08:45] <zyga> yes, it's not the kind of post to return in 3 weeks
[08:45] <popey> right, some are, some aren't
[08:45] <zyga> but yeah, it's easier to read on a blog so I will aggregate as posts as well
[08:45] <pedronis> all code will be written and deleted and then rewritten (maybe)
[08:45] <popey> but putting it on twitter from an account nearly nobody follows means nobody sees it
[08:46] <popey> if the goal is just braindump fair enogh :)
[08:46] <zyga> I refreshed https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5307
[08:46] <popey> but if you want the content out there, I'd encourage blogging and working with us to promote them :)
[08:46] <mup> PR #5307: cmd/snap-confine: allow hard-coded mounts to be optional <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5307>
[08:46] <zyga> it should go green soon
[08:46] <zyga> popey: I want it out there, it was just me experimenting with the format really
[08:47] <zyga> and as evening memory save for tomorrow (but a blog does that too)
[08:47] <popey> :) gotcha
[08:48] <zyga> and thank you for noticing, this is important to me
[08:48] <popey> <3
[09:37] <zyga> pstolowski: hey
[09:37] <zyga> do you need https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5433 ?
[09:37] <mup> PR #5433: interfaces/repo: added AllHotplugInterfaces helper <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5433>
[09:37] <zyga> or has that changed since we discussed last?
[09:38] <zyga> Chipaca: last chance to see https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5446 in case you want before I merge it
[09:38] <mup> PR #5446: coreconfig: add support for `snap set core network.disable-ipv6` <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5446>
[09:38] <zyga> it's green and has +2
[09:39] <Chipaca> zyga: that should be 'system' though, right
[09:39] <Chipaca> in any case, go for it
[09:39] <zyga> should it?
[09:39] <zyga> I can chance it to system
[09:39] <Chipaca> zyga: I mean, in user-facing docs
[09:39] <zyga> ahh
[09:39] <zyga> I see what you mean now
[09:40] <pstolowski> zyga: yes i need it, it's independent of udev bits we discussed
[09:40] <zyga> I misunderstood that as "snap set core system.disable-ivp6"
[09:40] <Chipaca> zyga: internally right now it's core, but system is what we should talk about because system is core now but coreXYZ later
[09:40] <zyga> Chipaca: totally agreed
[09:40] <zyga> Chipaca: I will tweak the spread test
[09:41] <zyga> in a world of iot customers ask for an off switch for ipv6
[09:44] <zyga> in some distant future the core snap version 1664 will be easy to confuse with 16-64 but perhaps nobody will use embedded 64bit address space anymore
[10:10] <zyga> Chipaca: I added a test for system snap for the ipv6 config now, thank you!
[10:10] <zyga> I will merge when green
[10:11] <Chipaca> zyga: 🆗
[10:12] <Chipaca> zyga: or should I say 🆗👌💯
[10:25] <zyga> I feel emoji deficient now
[10:28]  * zyga is enjoying fresh coffee
[10:29] <zyga> pressure must be low today, I'm more sleepy than usual
[10:53] <mup> PR snapd#5505 opened: interfaces/hotplug: udevadm output parser <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5505>
[10:55] <mup> PR snapd#5506 opened: cmd/snap: add a green check mark to verified publishers <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5506>
[10:57] <Chipaca> ^^^ look maw, it's terminfo's stupid inbred cousin!
[11:43]  * zyga forgot to eat breakfast today
[12:04] <zyga> Break
[12:21] <zyga> Mmmm, I feel tired somehow
[12:21] <zyga> pedronis: what do think about the branch?
[12:21] <pedronis> zyga: what branch?
[12:22] <zyga> The remapping one
[12:22] <pedronis> zyga: I added comments there
[12:22] <pedronis> a while ago
[12:22] <zyga> Oh, super. Let me look
[12:22] <zyga> Thank you!
[12:25] <zyga> Replied just now
[12:27] <zyga> I will deal with the coffee and add mapper that returns system in the API layer. We may need to differentiate the state and API mappers though, to keep rollback around (so that state is always mapping “snapd” to “core” on disk)
[12:28] <zyga> This is also a chance to rename the incoming outgoing words
[12:28] <zyga> To do explicitly talk about state loading/saving and API requests/responses
[12:29] <Chipaca> in test-snapd-tools.publisher expected 'canonical', got 'Canonicalâœ“'
[12:29] <Chipaca> I�Unicode
[12:29] <zyga> Woah?
[12:29] <zyga> Hehehe
[12:29] <zyga> But ... why?
[12:29] <Chipaca> zyga: why what?
[12:29] <zyga> Is the real value ascii
[12:29] <zyga> Why did it get corrupted
[12:30] <Chipaca> zyga: answering that requires investigation
[12:30] <Chipaca> zyga: did the python checker get it wrong? did the log print it wrong? is the browser using the wrong encoding? etc etc
[12:31] <zyga> Because software sucks and we’ll all pick up gardening instead ;-)
[12:31] <zyga> I vote for python
[12:31] <Chipaca> zyga: I name myself BGFL
[12:32] <zyga> Since Guido left python started throwing Unicode errors on all 7 bit ascii values
[12:32] <Chipaca> zyga: for _this_ one, my money is on the browser
[12:32] <zyga> Dead hand system (aka dead snake)
[12:32] <Chipaca> zyga: confirmed, it's the browser; log file is fine
[12:32] <Chipaca> in test-snapd-tools.publisher expected 'canonical', got 'Canonical✓'
[12:34] <Chipaca> HAH! suse's default locale is not UTF-8ish
[12:34] <Chipaca> for suse: in test-snapd-tools.publisher expected 'canonical', got 'Canonical*'
[12:39] <mup> PR snapd#5498 closed: snap: support hook environment <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5498>
[12:39] <King_InuYasha> obs-build defaults to POSIX / C, even though openSUSE itself defaults to C.UTF-8
[12:39] <King_InuYasha> zyga, Chipaca ^
[12:40] <Chipaca> King_InuYasha: I wonder why our spread box isn't getting that one
[12:40]  * Chipaca spins it up to check
[12:42] <cjwatson> one of the reasons very recent python has the automatic UTF-8 upgrade stuff
[12:49] <zyga> hmm
[12:49] <zyga> bad restore codE? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/d59S4fs6/
[12:51] <mup> PR snapd#5504 closed: interfaces/pulseaudio: be clear that the interface allows playback and record <Simple> <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5504>
[12:51] <Chipaca> King_InuYasha: in opensuse 42 that we run spread on in GCE, LANG=POSIX, with just LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8
[12:51] <Chipaca> what even is LANG=POSIX
[12:52] <Chipaca> 'in the lang of posix where the standards lie [through their teeth]'
[12:57] <ogra_> that definitely needs to be POSIX.UTF-8 :P
[12:57] <ogra_> how else would you get standardized umlauts
[12:57] <mup> PR snapd#5494 closed: snap/squashfs, tests: pass -n[o-progress] to {mk,un}squashfs <Created by chipaca> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5494>
[13:06] <King_InuYasha> Chipaca: POSIX is an alias for C
[13:57] <jdstrand> niemeyer: can you add https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/tio-request-for-classic-confinement/6209 to your list of considerations for classic?
[13:58] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Of course, thanks
[13:58] <jdstrand> thanks
[13:58] <smoser> hi. is it possible to change the mode (jailmode/devmode/classic) of an installed snap ?
[14:00] <Chipaca> smoser: it is not
[14:00] <Chipaca> smoser: well
[14:00] <Chipaca> smoser: 'snap refresh' can do it
[14:00] <Chipaca> smoser: but 'snap switch' cannot
[14:00] <Chipaca> smoser: why?
[14:01] <smoser> jsut curious mostly.
[14:01] <smoser>  https://github.com/smoser/pdftk/issues/1
[14:01] <smoser> one solution to that is to instlal with --devmode (i think)
[14:02] <Chipaca> smoser: devmode stops you from getting updates though
[14:02] <jdstrand> smoser: that won't work cause devmode also uses the mount namespace and snap-specific /tmp
[14:02] <Chipaca> heh, and what jdstrand said
[14:02] <smoser> right.
[14:03] <Chipaca> smoser: what i've done when I had things in tmp is use bash's <()'s
[14:03] <smoser> thanks jdstrand . so the only solution there is "don't  use /tmp"
[14:04] <Chipaca> smoser: so instead of pdftk infile outfile, pdftk <(cat infile) >(cat > outfile)
[14:05] <smoser> well the snap should be able to write to its stdin and stdout anyway
[14:05] <smoser> so you shouldnt need the (cat)
[14:05] <Chipaca> smoser: ah, if pdftk handles stdin/stdout, sure
[14:05] <smoser> just snap-program </tmp/my-input >/tmp/my-output
[14:06] <cjwatson> you might want to double-check that, since apparmor revalidates access to open fds
[14:06] <smoser> i yeah.. i hit that somewhere. it works sometimes.
[14:06] <cjwatson> so it's at least potentially the sort of thing that might not work even though it feels like it should
[14:06] <pstolowski> zyga: can you take a look at #5451?
[14:06] <smoser> i went looking for where i found it. thought i reported it, cbut coudnt find it.
[14:06] <mup> PR #5451: interfaces: honor static attributes when reloading conns <Blocked> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5451>
[14:09] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1766667
[14:09] <mup> Bug #1766667: commands in a container cannot write to inherited filehandles such as stdout <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766667>
[14:09] <smoser> is that in the worng place ?
[14:11] <Chipaca> smoser: i'll move it to snapd, but no
[14:11] <Chipaca> smoser: (snappy is the catchall for snapd + snapcraft + etc etc, in lp)
[14:13] <Chipaca> I'll leave it to jdstrand to figure out if it's actually snapd or lxd-in-a-snap or what :-)
[14:14] <mup> Bug #1766667 changed: commands in a container cannot write to inherited filehandles such as stdout <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766667>
[14:49] <zyga> pstolowski: yes
[14:51]  * Chipaca afk for a bit
[15:03] <zyga> pedronis: hey, I updated https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5491
[15:03] <mup> PR #5491: overlord,daemon: re-map interface plugs and slots around the edges of snapd <Core18> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5491>
[15:03] <zyga> I swiched the helpers to be functional now
[15:03] <zyga> switched*
[15:03] <zyga> I'm looking if we can cheaply translate differently inside and outside to get  "core" in state, "snapd" in memory and "system" in the API
[15:03] <zyga> I think so, just making the changes now
[15:04] <pedronis> zyga: ok, thank you
[15:10] <zyga> pedronis: question on api naming:
[15:10] <zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0wawqbLN/
[15:11] <zyga> I tried to come up with useful names for the state vs api remappers
[15:11] <zyga> what do you think?
[15:12] <zyga> pedronis: basically I'm open to suggestions as I'm making that change anyway
[15:13] <pedronis> the names seem reasonable
[15:15] <zyga> great, I'll run with those, thank you
[15:24] <scientes> How do I list all files in all snaps in the database?
[15:24] <scientes> is there a database I can download?
[15:25] <scientes> (like apt-file/apt's Contents.gz)
[15:31] <noise][> scientes: there is not currently a manifest such as that
[15:32] <Chipaca> scientes: what for?
[15:33] <scientes> command-not-found
[15:33] <ogra_> there is definitely nothing client side like Packages.gz (or the apt list files which are the local equivalents), this is all handled store side
[15:33] <Chipaca> scientes: what about command-not-found?
[15:34] <Chipaca> scientes: (we already have commant-not-found integration)
[15:34] <scientes> when I rewrote it ( https://github.com/shawnl/command-not-found/ ), there was comments that it should support snap
[15:34] <scientes> I re-wrote it to avoid the python dependency
[15:34] <Chipaca> scientes: oh! hi :-)
[15:36] <Chipaca> scientes: the person that did the majority of the integration with cnf is away this week
[15:36] <scientes> i'll look at the source
[15:36] <Chipaca> scientes: but, not command-not-found itself has grown support for being extended
[15:36] <Chipaca> scientes: and snap uses that extension point
[15:36] <scientes> oh i c
[15:36] <Chipaca> I say "has grown", but we were instrumental to that growth
[15:37] <scientes> does it increase the latency, given that it has to make a network request for every command_not_found hook?
[15:37] <Chipaca> scientes: it does not have to make a network request
[15:37] <Chipaca> scientes: the list of all commands _is_ available
[15:37] <Chipaca> scientes: the list of all files is not
[15:37] <scientes> oh i c that is better
[15:38] <Chipaca> scientes: if you have snapd on your system, you can look at the database, /var/cache/snapd/commands.db
[15:38] <Chipaca> scientes: snapd refreshes that periodically
[15:39] <Chipaca> scientes: all command-not-found does is then call (via an extension mechanism that I don't know offhand), e.g., “snap advise-snap --command tmnationsforever”
[15:39] <scientes> do you know what format that is?
[15:39] <Chipaca> scientes: boltdb
[15:40] <Chipaca> scientes: the integration made it into 18.04, but has not been backported, fwiw
[15:40] <scientes> yeah im' running 18.04
[15:40] <Chipaca> cool
[15:40] <scientes> looks like boltdb is deprecated
[15:41] <Chipaca> so 'command_not_found_handle tmnationsforever' should show you
[15:41] <Chipaca> scientes: whatever the new thing is called, it's the same
[15:42] <Chipaca> scientes: bbolt
[15:43] <Chipaca> scientes: before you start looking into that database, keep in mind that the cnf extension mechanism was at least in principle built to also support flatpak
[15:44] <Chipaca> anyhow, back to work for me
[15:44] <scientes> thanks
[15:47] <mup> PR snapd#5507 opened: Changes to network-control interface <Created by kubiko> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5507>
[15:51] <pedronis> zyga: I will re-review on Monday morning if you push there
[15:51] <zyga> yes, I will, just getting dinner now
[15:51] <zyga> thank you!
[15:51] <pedronis> pstolowski: I will also look at the patch PR next week
[15:54] <pedronis> pstolowski: 5502 it's maybe something you could look at when you have time
[16:32]  * Chipaca encourages spread to finish so he can EOW
[16:38] <pstolowski> pedronis: yes i started looking at it
[17:01]  * zyga is "lucky"
[17:01] <zyga> every time I go out for a walk it rains
[18:06] <mup> PR snapcraft#2179 closed: cli: SNAPCRAFT_BUILD_ENVIRONMENT isn't deprecated <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2179>
[18:53] <roadmr> what's the cross-section between snapd-control interface and classic?
[18:53] <roadmr> if a snap uses classic, can it do snapd-control stuff? or is snapd-control isolated even from a classic snap?
[18:55] <pedronis> roadmr: if it has bits that run as root, yes
[18:55] <roadmr> ohh I see pedronis
[18:56] <roadmr> pedronis: and we have no way of knowing whether it does stuff as root, right?
[18:56] <roadmr> pedronis: so to ask another way: if a snap asks "I need either classic or snapd-control", we would prefer to grant snapd-control as it's less powerful than classic? (but I understand it's still quite powerful and dangerous)
[18:57] <pedronis> roadmr: yes, but it depends, there are factors of trust at play, also snapd-control is not useful for something like a compiler or an ide
[18:57] <noise][> and snapd-control gives you those powers in fully confined (core) systems as well
[18:58] <roadmr> pedronis: right, I'm thinking about the case of a snap that wants classic to be able to interact with snapd
[18:58] <pedronis> yes, no classic on core
[18:58] <roadmr> ahh interesting, noise][
[18:58] <pedronis> roadmr: it probably should instead make a case to get snapd-control
[18:59] <pedronis> talk to snapd is a case for snapd-control, not for classic
[18:59] <pedronis> (taken by itself)
[18:59] <roadmr> pedronis: right. OK, so that's guidance we can provide to developers in this case
[18:59] <pedronis> roadmr: I mean we shouldn't give classic to something we wouldn't give snapd-control, if the situation is talk to snapd
[19:00] <noise][> that said we are very reluctant to grant snapd-control for anything in the global store
[19:00] <roadmr> totally
[19:01] <pedronis> noise][: yes, but in general we have been reluctant with any manage the system kind of thing so far
[19:01] <pedronis> in the global store
[19:01] <pedronis> (afaiu)
[19:01] <pedronis> I don't see classic vs snapd-control changing that equation
[19:01] <roadmr> noise][: yep, I remember that... so  without guarantees that snapd-control will be granted, if someone wants classic and when asked why, says "so my snap can manage/add/remove/update snaps", we can say "the right thing to use is snapd-control" - but to reiterate, snapd-control use is evaluated on its own merits
[19:02] <roadmr> terrific, well this is enough info for what I wanted to know :) thanks both
[19:08] <zyga> pedronis: I got the state<=>memory<=>api mapper working, playing with more tests but it looks very good
[23:37]  * zyga wraps up for the week


[23:35] <xangua> Hello everyone, I am unable to see any bluetooth device in ubuntu 12.04 lsmod http://pastebin.com/HpAS28P6 .s
[23:35] <Daemoen> haha, got it to work
[23:35] <Daemoen> good to know that you can simply use f6 and change the preseed file to a url on boot
[23:37] <eglxiang> How to setup Chinese input in Ubuntu with Xfce?
[23:37] <mitchell> hello
[23:37] <eglxiang> I installed unicon-imc2 from Ubuntu one
[23:38] <eglxiang> Then I don't how to switch to Chinese input
[23:38] <eglxiang> Anybody can help?
[23:39] <portage> Hi, /cl
[23:39] <mrpizzaface> hey dose anybody here know how to make a HDD with the flags of being bootable from ubuntu 12.04 ?
[23:39] <xangua> Hello everyone, I am unable to see any bluetooth device in ubuntu 12.04, apparently this computer (hp G42-283LA) has some kind of bundled wifi/blueo tooth, if I hit the hardware key do enable/disable it enables/disables both but the wifi is working OK; is there any procedure I should take to see what's wrong or what am I missing? output of  lsmod http://pastebin.com/HpAS28P6 lspci http://pastebin.com/vRUaUJr7
[23:40] <xup> Hi, I want run this software, but I get: bash: ./this_software: Permission denied
[23:41] <ikonia> xup: put execute permissions on the software
[23:41] <ikonia> xup: please tell us what the software is as it may also be missing libraries based on ubuntu's setup
[23:42] <xup> ikonia, some guy told me that if I ran halt would be ok
[23:42] <ikonia> xup: what is the actual software you want to run
[23:42] <xup> ikonia, one sec, will try
[23:42] <ikonia> troll
[23:43] <nPegler> anyone having any issues with Ubuntu 13.10 not wanting to display the on-screen keyboard after it has been enabled in the Accessiblity Options?  I cannot finish the installation without keyboard access on my Gigabyte touch screen x86 tablet...
[23:44] <Shamrock13> This is silly. I'm trying everything I can find online, but I'm not getting any kind of sound whatsoever.
[23:44] <nPegler> Shamrock13, have you tried going to the website for the manufacturer of the audio card in your system to look for a Linux driver?
[23:45] <Shamrock13> Honestly, I haven't just because I assumed Dell wouldn't make an audio driver for it.
[23:45] <Shamrock13> I'll check now.
[23:45] <nPegler> What type of Dell system do you have? I can look up the audio card type and help you find a linux driver
[23:46] <Shamrock13> 17r Special Edition
[23:46] <Shamrock13> The system tag is 8HRRCT1
[23:46] <nPegler> k I'll let you know if I can find anything
[23:46] <Shamrock13> Thank you so much
[23:46] <mrpizzaface> is there any way i can get a Virtual box to reconize a usb hdd
[23:47] <Beldar> mrpizzaface, In the prefernces
[23:48] <WalterSmith> cock
[23:48] <Beldar> ops | waltercool_
[23:48] <mrpizzaface> Beldar: it says i need the expansion pack and i have it installed but it wont let me enable usb2.0 support
[23:48] <Beldar> waltercool_ soory
[23:48] <quidnunc> Can anyone running 12.10 either confirm or deny that "cabal install entropy" fails? You need "apt-get install cabal-install ghc"
[23:49] <waltercool_> Beldar: Why? :S
[23:49] <Beldar> mrpizzaface, usb 2 support, does this computer have usb 2?
[23:49] <ikonia> quidnunc: what don't you just tell us your problem, rather than other peoples
[23:49] <Beldar> waltercool_, I did a ops call and accidentally used your nick
[23:50] <nPegler> Shamrock13, unfortunately Dell utilized a Conexant Audio Card... Conexant does not provide driver support for end users. You'll have to google Conexant Audio for linux and try to sift through that for something that works
[23:50] <nPegler> I wish you the best of luck
[23:50] <mrpizzaface> Beldar: USB2 and USB3 support i have it plugged into usb 2.0 at the moment
[23:51] <waltercool_> Beldar: Hahahha relax, shit happens
[23:51] <nPegler> anyone know how to get the on screen keyboard to show up on Ubuntu 13.10 after having enabled it on the Accessiblity Options?
[23:51] <Beldar> mrpizzaface, Not sure, I have never had to enable usb support.
[23:51] <mrpizzaface> beldar ill try :P
[23:52] <mrpizzaface> well i can boot the iso :)
[23:52] <Shamrock13> nPegler, the worst part of it is that I had sound when I first installed Ubuntu, and then whatever I did took it away.
[23:52] <Shamrock13> I cannot get it back either. Ugh.
[23:52] <nPegler> that's really odd :-S
[23:53] <xur> hi all
[23:54] <Shamrock13> I have absolutely no idea what to do.
[23:54] <nPegler> I'm still learning Ubuntu myself :-S
[23:54] <Shamrock13> Yep! Me too!
[23:54] <nPegler> I like the look of it and am actually trying to get it loaded onto my touch-screen tablet pc
[23:55] <Shamrock13> That would be pretty awesome.
[23:55] <Shamrock13> I love the look of Ubuntu
[23:55] <Shamrock13> I'll be right back. Have to restart and see if I got it fixed or not.
[23:55] <Steakumz> Used Windows all my life, and made a New Years resolution to try Ubuntu in 2014..So here I am :)
[23:55] <RealNWO> windows is better
[23:55] <Steakumz> I feel like somewhat of an idiot
[23:55] <nPegler> Welcome to the linux world :-)
[23:56] <RealNWO> but ubuntu is the best linux, and sometimes u need linux
[23:56] <Steakumz> I'm really bummed to find out I apparently can't play League of Legends anymore.
[23:56] <nPegler> I've used Fedora for a while, but it won't work on my tablet...
[23:56] <Steakumz> Also, download speed 1/2 of what I was getting on Windows with torrents :/
[23:57] <nPegler> the exact same torrents?
[23:57] <Steakumz> yeap
[23:57] <zeprox> same ports?
[23:57] <Steakumz> torrents with tons of fast seeds only hitting 500mb/s download speeds
[23:57] <Shamrock13> I'm back, and there was absolutely no luck.
[23:57] <Steakumz> doubt the same ports, I went from Utorrent to Transmission
[23:57] <daftykins> only 500MB/sec? awww
[23:58] <nPegler> that could be the issue Steakumz
[23:58] <nPegler> some torrent software works better than others
[23:58] <Steakumz> I mean 500kb/s sorry
[23:58] <Steakumz> Well, I wanted to use Deluge client, but even after port forwarding it says "no incoming connection", so maybe I'll keep tinkering with that client.
[23:59] <xangua> Just found the solution to my bluetooth issue: As  of 2013.11.13 Bluetooth is working for RT3090. After installing bluez,  bluez-utils and any other bluetooth related packages you may need, run  "bccmd enabletx" as root. No need to dual boot with Windows, only  running the command. As the half-mini wireless card RT3090 is a combo one, the  bluetooth radio is embeded together with wifi. The bluetooth device  isn't listed in lspci. However, is is visible
[23:59] <Steakumz> grats
[23:59] <nPegler> awesome that you figured it out :-)


[01:23] <george_e> I've uploaded a build of GCC 4.7 for Precise to a PPA but when other packages in the PPA build, they are still using GCC 4.6.
[01:23] <george_e> Here is a link to the PPA: https://code.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/+archive/nitroshare-dev
[01:24] <george_e> ...and here is a build that failed because GCC 4.6 is still being pulled in: https://code.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/+archive/nitroshare-dev/+build/4274624/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.nitroshare_0.3-0%7E201302050803%7Eprecise1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[01:24] <StevenK> You probably need gcc-defaults to make sure it pulls in 4.7
[01:24] <wgrant> george_e: Have you also uploaded gcc-defaults ?
[01:24] <wgrant> What StevenK said
[01:25] <george_e> Ah.
[01:25] <george_e> I will backport that and see if it helps.
[08:39] <dbm> Hello guys, how can i get ssh key for lunchpad on osx ? 10.8?
[08:39] <dbm> launch*
[10:42] <Mkaysi> dbm: ssh-keygen should work with it too.
[10:49] <dbm> Mkaysi: solved it
[10:50] <Mkaysi> :)
[15:08] <vibhav> Is anybody here knowing whether test cases using X11 will work with launchpad?
[15:12] <geser> vibhav: you might need probably "xvfb" for that
[15:14] <vibhav> geser: What is that?
[15:14] <geser> Description-en: Virtual Framebuffer 'fake' X server
[15:32] <vibhav> geser: thanks
[17:40] <vibhav> Does Launchpad allow root privilages on its build servers?
[17:41] <tsimpson> fakeroot, not real root
[17:41] <vibhav> tsimpson: A test case here needs Xvfb which needs root to run
[17:43] <vibhav> tsimpson: And for Xvfb to function without root, one needs to chmod u+s the Xvfb binary, which requires root too :(
[17:44] <tsimpson> maybe you can disable the test cases on the build
[17:45] <tsimpson> not exactly a solution, but...
[17:46] <vibhav> tsimpson: I am writing the autopkgtest cases
[17:46] <vibhav> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html
[17:47] <tsimpson> hmm, then I'd suggest filing a question and seeing what the LP admins suggest
[17:47] <vibhav> sure, thanks
[18:58] <geser> vibhav: there are several packages that build-depend on xvfb. If I not mistaken they use it for some build tests. Perhaps you could check how they manage to use xvfb on the buildds.
[19:00] <geser> packages like apport, bamf, indicator-appmenu, libgtk2-perl and others
[19:10] <dobey> eh? xvfb doesn't need root to run
[19:10] <dobey> "xvfb-run -a yourscript"
[19:12] <geser> dobey: vibhav got this already resolved in #ubuntu-devel (it was a internet page with wrong information)
[19:14] <dobey> ah
[23:30] <thomi> Hi - I'm using a recipe to build some debian packages, and it looks to me like the builder is building into the wrong PPA. Is it possible to cancel the builds & delete the packages that have been published from the PPA?
[23:31] <wgrant> thomi: Which build?
[23:31] <thomi> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/+recipe/cegui-daily
[23:31] <thomi> wgrant: I just found the "delete packages" link in the PPA
[23:31] <thomi> I have no idea how it selected that PPA - other than it's at the top of the list of PPAs I have access to
[23:32] <wgrant> thomi: You must have left the default selected when you requested the builds
[23:32] <wgrant> It is a rather unfortunate default, but that's the only real possibility for what happened
[23:32] <TheLordOfTime> what's the upper bound on resources a  PPA builder can have for any given build?
[23:32] <thomi> wgrant: when I request the build it defails to what I've configured in the recipe though
[23:33] <thomi> wgrant: is there a way to cancel the incorrect builds? or should I just wait it out...
[23:33] <wgrant> TheLordOfTime: What's interesting about the *upper* bound of available resources?
[23:33] <wgrant> The lower bound is surely all that is relevant
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> wgrant:  wondering whether libreoffice'll build.
[23:33] <wgrant> thomi: Normally, yes, but that's a non-virt PPA so the builds can't be cancelled.
[23:34] <TheLordOfTime> wgrant:  need to build-test to see if a newer dep will break it, and i don't have pbuilder around to do it.
[23:34] <TheLordOfTime> (not enough resources!)
[23:34] <thomi> wgrant: :( okay, thanks for your help
[23:34] <wgrant> TheLordOfTime: The main constraint with some libreoffice builds is that they use >30GB of disk space, which some of our builders cannot support
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> ... lolwut?
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> it uses 30GB of disk space to build?
[23:35] <wgrant> Yes
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> o.O
[23:35] <wgrant> It's a pretty horrible package
[23:35] <wgrant> I think it may be better now
[23:35] <wgrant> But a few months ago it was a serious issue
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> of that you and I are agreed, but as a sync-request is dependent on testing the build, well...
[23:36] <TheLordOfTime> because the sync is for a dep of the raring libreoffice, and it needs to work with the newer dep.
[23:36] <TheLordOfTime> if it doesn't, it will cancel two other sync-requests
[23:36] <TheLordOfTime> which is fine, but...
[23:36]  * TheLordOfTime yawns
[23:36] <TheLordOfTime> you know what, i shouldn't be build-testing when i'm tired anyways
[23:36] <TheLordOfTime> i'm likely to break the debian/control file :P


[06:10] <ducasse> good morning
[06:35] <lotus|NUC> hi TJ-
[10:46] <lotus|NUC> on 20.04 photoprint got removed from the repos, anyone got a similar package in mind i can use to just add pics and print easy, lemme know
[11:09] <daftykins> photo viewers can't print?
[11:11] <lotus|NUC> im sure they can, but i like what photoprint does, default split the screen in 4 to add the pics
[11:11] <daftykins> why not grab the .deb by hand and force it on?
[11:12] <daftykins> don't really understand how showing 4 pics up on screen has any impact on printing
[11:21] <lotus|NUC> daftykins: im just looking for a handy alternate
[11:45] <Ben64> shotwell maybe?
[11:47] <lotus|NUC> Ben64: this is what i like about photoprint: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wBXyHxjqZFA/maxresdefault.jpg
[11:47] <lotus|NUC> you can add/del fields easy and add the number of pics easy
[11:48] <lotus|NUC> i like shotwell too, but thats more the handy viewer
[18:40] <marcoagpinto> [19:40] <marcoagpinto> I meant 6.1.8 not 6.1.7
[18:40] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:40] <marcoagpinto> yesterday I was stressed and typed a wrong version number
[18:41] <marcoagpinto> Olá
[18:42] <EoflaOE> How are you marcoagpinto?
[18:42] <marcoagpinto> I am brain toasted, and you?
[18:42] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:43] <EoflaOE> I am doing fine.
[18:43] <marcoagpinto> I have been up since ~6am working on LanguageTool and on the dictionary
[18:43] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:43] <marcoagpinto> I am feeling dizzy
[18:43] <marcoagpinto> :p
[18:44] <EoflaOE> Nice. Do you take breaks between periods of time?
[18:44] <marcoagpinto> I was doing that weeks ago, but somehow I have stopped doing it
[18:44] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:44] <marcoagpinto> a small 10 minutes break after 1 hour
[18:45] <marcoagpinto> but now the hours go by and I don't pause
[18:45] <marcoagpinto> except for eating and drinking
[18:46] <marcoagpinto> it is almost releae day for the British speller and I am going through the whole Wikipedia documents regarding astronomy
[18:46] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:46] <marcoagpinto> release*
[18:46] <marcoagpinto> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_topics#Physics_and_astronomy
[18:46] <marcoagpinto> the ones here
[18:47] <EoflaOE> Nice. I have also reached to Kernel Simulator version 0.0.10.
[18:49] <marcoagpinto> cool
[18:49] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:50] <EoflaOE> Thanks so much.
[18:50] <marcoagpinto> and I have a feature semi-working in Proofing Tool GUI that based on the morphological information in dictionary files, it provides a list of words with the POS
[18:50] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:50] <marcoagpinto> we select a source POS, a target POS and extract
[18:50] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:51] <EoflaOE> Cool, but what is a POS?
[18:52] <marcoagpinto> https://i.imgur.com/CrCtAwd.png
[18:52] <marcoagpinto> postag
[18:52] <marcoagpinto> the morphologic information regarding words
[18:52] <marcoagpinto> I have been adding it for the British speller, mainly nouns
[18:54] <marcoagpinto> why spend months creating a list if I can extract from the dictionaries in one or two seconds?
[18:54] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:55] <EoflaOE> Alright. Will it support all other languages in the future?
[18:55] <marcoagpinto> provided the .dic files have the data
[18:55] <marcoagpinto> :)
[18:56] <marcoagpinto> this screenshot is regarding the Portuguese dictionary
[18:56] <marcoagpinto> one just creates the source+target POSes and select the extract option in the menus
[18:56] <marcoagpinto> it takes one or two seconds
[18:56] <marcoagpinto> :p
[18:56] <marcoagpinto> I tested it today
[18:59] <EoflaOE> I got this. Are there any other features implemented?
[18:59] <marcoagpinto> tons of
[19:00] <marcoagpinto> plus tons planned
[19:00] <marcoagpinto> it is just a matter of time
[19:00] <marcoagpinto> :)
[19:00] <marcoagpinto> if I win the EuroMillions tonight I will retire and dedicate more time to it
[19:01] <EoflaOE> Nice. I hope you win.
[19:01] <marcoagpinto> thanks
[19:02] <EoflaOE> You're welcome.


[10:59] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[15:08] <ChinnoDog> swift110: heya


[05:56] <Keybuk> heh
[05:56] <Keybuk> so I explained the c-e-c problem to a friend, and it broke him
[05:56] <AlexExtreme> :)
[05:57] <Keybuk> though he was a sufficient teddy bear for me to figure out two interesting things
[05:57] <Keybuk> 1)
[05:57] <Keybuk> states are more interesting than just discreet
[05:57] <Keybuk> e.g. if you define a state for tty-added...tty-removed for a common NAME, then there are several questions you can answer
[05:57] <Keybuk> a) does tty1 exist?
[05:57] <Keybuk> b) does any tty exist?
[05:57] <Keybuk> c) what is the list of ttys that exist?
[05:58] <Keybuk> it turns out that all of these are interesting
[05:58] <Keybuk> getty is run for each tty that exists
[05:58] <Keybuk> but something requiring a network is running if any non-lo network interface is up
[06:00] <ion_> Perhaps upstart should grow a scheme interpreter after all. ;-)
[06:01] <Keybuk> and the fhs filesystem question can be answers with list-of-mounted-paths is a superset of list-of-required-paths
[06:02] <ion_> make states scheme procedures, with a nice API for common things. :-)
[06:02] <Keybuk> this really does make states first class again
[06:03] <Keybuk> so a job would end up having event predicates and state predicates
[06:03] <Keybuk> 2)
[06:03] <Keybuk> states don't need to behave like jobs
[06:03] <Keybuk> "pre-start"/"post-stop" scripts for states are all very well and pretty
[06:03] <Keybuk> but in reality, they're not needed
[06:03] <Keybuk> since you can just tie a job to the state, and define the scripts there
[06:04] <ion_> True...
[06:04] <ion_> But having them in the same file is nice.
[06:05] <ion_> OTOH, you could make them separate, implicitly creating an anonymous job for each state, to which the scripts are added.
[06:07] <Keybuk> I think it makes it more difficult if they're conceptually the same thing
[06:13] <ion_> Perhaps add an expr stanza for scheme expressions, which could be used by any job. State would be just a job with no process; there would be no distinction from the codes point of view.
[06:20] <Keybuk> the interesting thing about states is the operations on them
[06:20] <Keybuk> state-is-true state args...
[06:20] <Keybuk> any-state-is-true state
[06:21] <Keybuk> stats-that-are-true state is-subset-of other list
[06:21] <Keybuk> etc,
[10:30] <Keybuk> ho-hum
[10:31] <kylem> ?
[10:31] <Keybuk> brain hurts
[10:32] <kylem> stop poking at it
[10:32] <Keybuk> heh
[10:33] <Keybuk> trying to define an elegant language (and internal combustion) for when jobs should be running
[10:37] <ion_> How about this? /etc/event.d/tty on tty-added $TTY ... tty-removed $TTY; instance would define a job, which also functions as a state. Other jobs/states could query whether tty is running, but they could also query whether an instance (with a certain $TTY) is running.
[10:38] <ion_> In the tty-added $TTY ... tty-removed $TTY expression, the first $TTY (before ...) would be an assignment and the second $TTY (after ...) would be a comparison.
[10:38] <Keybuk> a job with
[10:38] <Keybuk> instance
[10:38] <Keybuk> start on tty-added
[10:39] <Keybuk> stop on tty-removed $TTY
[10:39] <Keybuk> would be equivalent
[10:39] <ion_> True. :-)
[10:40] <Keybuk> so you'd end up with two basic stanzas
[10:40] <Keybuk> start on/stop on, which define an event or combination of events that start or stop the job
[10:40] <Keybuk> start on tty-added or serial-port-added
[10:40] <Keybuk> etc.
[10:40] <ion_> Anyway, that would answer to a) does tty1 exist? b) does any tty exist? c) what is the list of ttys that exist?, wouldnt it?
[10:40] <Keybuk> you'd also need a second "when" stanza, that defined the other states that must be true
[10:41] <Keybuk> (or maybe while)
[10:41] <Keybuk> e.g.
[10:41] <Keybuk> instance
[10:41] <Keybuk> start on tty-added tty[1-6]
[10:42] <Keybuk> stop on tty-removed $TTY
[10:42] <Keybuk> while user-can-login
[10:42] <Keybuk> where there's a seperate /etc/?/user-can-login
[10:43] <ion_> /etc/job /etc/state? /etc/job.d /etc/state.d?
[10:44] <Keybuk> the reason this doesn't feel right to me is that you can't have different pairs of start/stop
[10:44] <Keybuk> like the tty or serial-port combo
[10:44] <Keybuk> you can't match the stops to the starts
[10:54] <Keybuk> :-/
[10:56] <ion_> on tty-added tty[1-6]  until tty-removed \1 or serial-port-added * until serial-port-removed \1
[10:56] <ion_> Or $1
[10:59] <Keybuk> the problem there is how do you stop them doing:
[10:59] <Keybuk> foo until bar until baz
[11:02] <ion_> Change
[11:02] <ion_>     | cmplx_expr 'until' cmplx_expr
[11:02] <ion_> to
[11:02] <ion_>     | event 'until' event
[11:05] <Keybuk> but then you can't do (event or event) until event
[11:05] <Keybuk> which might be useful
[11:05] <Keybuk> and how do you define:
[11:05] <Keybuk>   any (tty-added until tty-removed $TTY)
[11:09] <ion_> expr_no_until : event | expr_no_until 'and' expr_no_until | expr_no_until 'or' expr_no_until | '(' expr_no_until ')' ; expr : expr_no_until | expr_no_until 'until' expr_no_until ;
[11:10] <ion_> Correction:
[11:10] <ion_> expr_no_until : event | expr_no_until 'and' expr_no_until | expr_no_until 'or' expr_no_until | '(' expr_no_until ')' ; expr : event | expr 'and' expr | expr 'or' expr | '(' expr ')' | expr_no_until 'until' expr_no_until ;
[11:12] <ion_> For any (tty-added * until tty-removed $1), create job (state) instance; on tty-added * until tty-removed $1 and check whether it is running.
[11:14] <Keybuk> whether any instance is running?
[11:14] <ion_> Yes.
[11:15] <Keybuk> that gets quite expensive if used a lot, no?
[11:17] <ion_> Disconnect state names from the filenames, and make it possible to assign a number of state expressions to variables in a single file?
[11:19] <ion_> state tty-exists = any (tty-added tty[1-6]  until tty-removed $1)
[11:20] <ion_> state foo = tty-exists and writable-filesystem