[10:39] <olbi> hi guys, are there any xubuntu 14.04.1 images on ther servers?
[10:44] <ali1234> no because 14.04.1 isn't out until july
[11:18] <xnox> olbi: and we haven't yet started building trusty daily images (in the run up to 14.04.1 release)
[11:19] <olbi> so now only updateded will be translations? :)
[11:23] <olbi> I need to know when will be pushed all Polish Translations from Transifex, to Git and than to deb packages into Xubuntu repos :-) cause there are so many changes which aren't in Proposed repos
[19:11] <Unit193> [19:59] <slickymaster> !team | meeting time!
[20:00] <slickymaster> #startmeeting
[20:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun  3 20:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:00] <pleia2> o/
[20:00] <slickymaster> So, who's here for the meeting?
[20:01] <forestpiskie> o/
[20:02] <slickymaster> Unit193, will you just be lurking?
[20:02] <Unit193> Generally, unless otherwise.
[20:02] <slickymaster> #topic Open action items
[20:03] <slickymaster> Unit193 anything on the Trello bot for interaction with the board from within IRC?
[20:04] <slickymaster> I do have to apologise for forgeting to add the items to the meeting agenda. My bad :P
[20:04] <Unit193> slickymaster: Just xubutrello: help
[20:05] <elfy> I can tell you there's not :)
[20:06] <slickymaster> one other thing Unit193, you were to propose a new installable metapackage, right?
[20:07] <Unit193> #info xubuntu-core seed changes have been merged, task is installable now and the package will be installable next xubuntu-meta upload.
[20:07] <slickymaster> great
[20:07] <pleia2> cool :)
[20:08] <slickymaster> the other open action items I had concern ochosi, knome and bluesabre, but since they absent I'll move along
[20:08] <slickymaster> #action knome to create a Trello account
[20:08] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to create a Trello account
[20:08] <Unit193> Testing is waiting for the meta upload, of course.
[20:09] <elfy> there are a lot of team not with a trello account
[20:09] <slickymaster> do you know if lderan has made any progress in the UI for the panel-switch application Unit193?
[20:09] <Unit193> elfy: Not that much, really.
[20:09] <Unit193> slickymaster: No idea.
[20:10] <elfy> Unit193: ~25%
[20:10] <slickymaster> elfy, regarding GTK3 apps for autopilot (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-qa) do you want to info anything?
[20:11] <elfy> nothing to info at present
[20:11] <elfy> not seen lderan for a while
[20:11] <slickymaster> #action team members still without Trello account should create one asap
[20:11] <meetingology> ACTION: team members still without Trello account should create one asap
[20:12] <slickymaster> ok, moving on
[20:12] <slickymaster> #topic Team updates
[20:12] <slickymaster> anything?
[20:12] <elfy> few
[20:12] <elfy> a few :p
[20:12] <elfy> #info Very little package testing being done
[20:13] <elfy> #info Images currently uninstallable
[20:13] <elfy> done
[20:13] <Unit193> slickymaster: You have one for docs, the translations no longer pass checks.
[20:14] <slickymaster> I haven't checked that yet Unit193
[20:14] <slickymaster> I'm going to poke you on that, if you don't mind me doing it Unit193
[20:16]  * slickymaster is in doubt if the Devian liaison and XTL should be announced or not
[20:16] <elfy> I'd guess not
[20:16] <slickymaster> that's my thoughts also
[20:16] <slickymaster> #topic Discussion
[20:16] <elfy> but the Debian one was a "I'm saying this" unless anyone says no on the m/l
[20:16] <slickymaster> #subtopic Move call for translations from 14.10 to 14.04.1
[20:17] <slickymaster> Unit193 brougth this to my attention
[20:17] <slickymaster> and as a matter of fact I was already thinking of it
[20:18] <slickymaster> does anyone has thoughts/opinions on the subject
[20:18] <elfy> I've no idea what you're talking about :)
[20:18] <slickymaster> elfy https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-docs
[20:19] <slickymaster> one of the items in the docs-blueprint is a call for translations, since we just have two languages translated
[20:19] <elfy> slickymaster: if this sort of thing can be dated - would be useful to get it on trello with dates
[20:20] <slickymaster> yes, agree
[20:20] <Unit193> I think I said it the other way around, actually.
[20:20] <Unit193> elfy: It's already there.
[20:21] <slickymaster> Unit193m the other way around as in...?
[20:21] <elfy> Unit193: I must be blind then
[20:22] <slickymaster> not seeing it neither
[20:22] <Unit193> slickymaster: Move from 14.04.1 to 14.10.
[20:22] <Unit193> xubutrello: card 66 link
[20:22] <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/xss9yOWH/66-run-a-call-for-translators-for-the-documentation
[20:22] <elfy> Unit193: got it
[20:23] <slickymaster> initially it was planned to 14.10, not to the first point release
[20:23] <slickymaster> or am I going crazy?
[20:24] <elfy> no idea
[20:24] <slickymaster> but my idea of anticipate the call was mainly to try to start something
[20:25] <slickymaster> the way I see it, there's too much inertia regarding the translations
[20:26] <slickymaster> people just seem to don't give a damn about it and IMO it's something important that should be delt with
[20:26] <slickymaster> anyway we can postpone it to the next meeting
[20:27] <slickymaster> #subtopic systemd
[20:27] <slickymaster> are we going to track it?
[20:27] <Unit193> Well, I was, but not specifically for Xubuntu.
[20:28] <slickymaster> from kernel 3.15.0-4 onward it's going to be default
[20:28] <elfy> slickymaster: where did you read that?
[20:28] <elfy> I've not seen anything to say that on m/l's
[20:30] <slickymaster> I got that idea from Martin Pitt's mail to the ubuntu-devel ML
[20:32] <elfy> Utopic boot broken: What now?
[20:32] <elfy> that mail?
[20:32] <Unit193> If so, that was an upload error that's been fixed.
[20:32] <slickymaster> yes, from 5 days ago
[20:33] <slickymaster> or I completely misread it Unit193
[20:33] <elfy> not sure that's saying that systemd is being used default, just a way to boot those machines
[20:33] <Unit193> Exactly.
[20:33] <slickymaster> elfy, most probably I misread it
[20:34] <slickymaster> anyway, Unit193 do you mind if I add an action item for you, regarding tracking systemd and xubuntu?
[20:35] <elfy> pretty sure that we don't really need to do much for a cycle or so tbh
[20:35] <Unit193> Well, not really sure what that'd mean exactly, but I'm generally keeping up with it.  But yes, we shouldn't really need to do much/anything.
[20:35] <Unit193> But otherwise, sounds fine.
[20:36] <slickymaster> okie dokie, we'll drop it for now
[20:37] <slickymaster> that just leave us with the schedule of the next meeting
[20:37] <slickymaster> which I believe will be pleia2's
[20:37] <slickymaster> chairing
[20:37] <slickymaster> #action #action pleia2 to announce the next meeting time
[20:37] <elfy> believe so
[20:37] <meetingology> ACTION: #action pleia2 to announce the next meeting time
[20:38] <pleia2> weekly or bi-weekly?
[20:38] <slickymaster> I'll wrap this one
[20:38] <slickymaster> #endmeeting
[20:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun  3 20:38:35 2014 UTC.
[20:38] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-03-20.00.moin.txt
[20:38] <elfy> thanks slickymaster
[20:38] <Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
[20:38] <xubutrello>   ->  1. Suite B Call (id: 15) due: 2014-06-09 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
[20:38] <xubutrello>   ->  2. Package testcases (id: 29) due: 2014-06-06 11:00:00 UTC from list: Doing 14.10
[20:38] <Unit193> slickymaster: Thanks.
[20:38] <elfy> pleia2: weekly atm
[20:38] <pleia2> ok
[20:38] <elfy> though tbh I'm not sure it needs to be atm
[20:39] <slickymaster> thanks guys, just fot joining me in my agony
[20:39] <slickymaster> minutes are up
[20:39] <pleia2> thanks slickymaster, I'll update the team report in a bit
[20:39] <slickymaster> Unit193 just going to have some sort of a dinner than I'll take a look at that link
[20:39] <elfy> pleia2: so - I'd be happy with fortnightly unless there's any reason to do it weekly
[20:39] <Unit193> Food is good, yes.
[20:40] <pleia2> elfy: I'm out of town starting next thursday for a week+, so no go in 2 weeks for me
[20:40] <pleia2> next week is ok though
[20:40] <elfy> heh
[20:41] <pleia2> and next week is the ubuntu online summit, which I assume we're not participating in
[20:42] <Unit193> Do we have a reason to?
[20:42] <pleia2> no, it's too late in the cycle to be useful, and the restrictive time zones make it kind of meh
[20:43] <slickymaster> but you're going to be persent pleia2, aren't you?
[20:43] <Unit193> And we didn't want to run our own like a couple cycles ago?
[20:43] <slickymaster> * present
[20:46] <elfy> I don't think we missed having one last cycle
[20:46] <Unit193> Nope.
[20:49] <elfy> but if people did want - I'd be open to it
[20:52] <pleia2> slickymaster: only for a few sessions on tuesday and wednesday, in the air on thursday
[20:53] <pleia2> re UOW
[21:06] <Unit193> elfy: OK, so that one is due soon, have you checked all the testcases or are there some left for me?
[21:07] <elfy> Unit193: I've not started yet
[21:08] <Unit193> Cool, then there's some for me.
[21:08] <elfy> yep - just let me know which you've checked :)
[21:08] <Unit193> Via card or here?
[21:08] <elfy> if there are issues - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
[21:09] <elfy> put it on the card and I'll check there
[21:09] <elfy> just add a new one - wfm
[21:17] <Unit193> Bah, dang testcases.  I run one and find a bug. :/
[21:31] <ochosi> hey everyone
[21:31] <ochosi> sorry, i'm having a tough week
[21:31] <ochosi> ton of work and travelling, sorry i couldn't make it to the meeting today
[21:31] <ochosi> thanks for pulling it through slickymaster
[21:43] <Noskcaj> Did i miss anything in the meeting? I didn't wake up i time to see it all
[21:44] <ochosi> i think there wasn't too much going on, many missed it
[21:44] <Unit193> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-03-20.00.html
[21:50] <Noskcaj> Can someone add me to the trello?
[21:52]  * ochosi will try
[21:53] <ochosi> Noskcaj: done
[21:53] <Noskcaj> thanks
[21:54] <ochosi> np
[21:54] <Unit193> Noskcaj: You are Noskcaj, right?
[21:54] <Noskcaj> should i add the upower transition to trello?
[21:54] <Noskcaj> yep
[21:54] <Noskcaj> ;)
[21:54] <ochosi> :)
[21:54] <ochosi> Noskcaj: we're still exploring a bit what we can do with trello, so i suggest you add everything you think makes sense
[21:55] <Unit193> Why?  It's not an Xubuntu thing really, is it?  Wouldn't that be like adding the libav9 -> libav10?
[21:55] <ochosi> i guess transitions make sense
[21:55] <ochosi> Unit193: well if it breaks xfce4-session and xfpm, it kinda does concern us
[21:55] <Noskcaj> Unit193, it involves patches to xfce was my reasoning
[21:55] <Unit193> ochosi: Than that's a reason why. :)
[21:55] <ochosi> (just examples, i think i saw a longer list for xfce related packages)
[21:55] <ochosi> Unit193: Than? really? :)
[21:56] <ochosi> ok there you go, list of packages upower0.99 might break: http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/sys-power/upower
[21:56] <Noskcaj> xfpm, session, settings, systemload, and sorta weather-plugin
[21:56] <Unit193> ochosi: Summer -> brain in fried mode 79% of the time.
[21:56] <ochosi> Noskcaj: feel free to add a link to that list ^
[21:56] <ochosi> ah ok :)
[21:56] <ochosi> Unit193: oh sure, how convenient ;)
[21:56] <Unit193> Not really. :/
[21:57] <ochosi> anyway, gotta go
[21:57] <ochosi> night everyone
[21:57] <Unit193> G'night.
[22:26] <Unit193> andrzejr: https://unit193.net/clear-indicators.png doesn't look right, have you seen it?
[22:33] <andrzejr> Unit193, no! :-)
[22:33] <andrzejr> thanks
[22:36] <andrzejr> strange, what should I use instead of deprecated GTK_STOCK_CLEAR?
[22:38] <Unit193> edit-clear
[22:38] <Unit193> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk3-Stock-Items.html#GTK-STOCK-CLEAR:CAPS
[22:38] <andrzejr> that's what it is now
[22:39] <andrzejr> but "gtk-clear" seems to work
[22:40]  * Unit193 shrugs.
[22:41] <andrzejr> interestingly, the same document contains: "#define GTK_STOCK_CLEAR            ((GtkStock)"gtk-clear")"
[22:42] <andrzejr> I guess that's a gtk documentation error then.
[22:47] <andrzejr> fixed in master
[22:49] <slickymaster> Unit193, do you think it's viable to have docs translations credits in time for .1 release?
[22:52] <Unit193> andrzejr: Great!
[22:52] <Unit193> slickymaster: Think that was the plan.
[22:53] <slickymaster> ok, just checking :P
[22:54] <Unit193> slickymaster: Remember, you're the lead, I really don't know except for what's been said before.  You got a date for that translations call?
[22:55] <slickymaster> Unit193, I'm thinking of making one in about a week in ML
[22:56] <Unit193> Erm, for 14.10?  Want to do it after most of the docs are frozen, I'd think.
[22:56] <slickymaster> I was still thinking in .1
[22:56] <Unit193> Ah, OK.
[22:56] <slickymaster> wouldn't it be doable?
[22:57] <Unit193> I don't know the policy on SRU'ing translations.
[22:57] <slickymaster> do you think it should be dropped for .1 and only target to utopic?
[22:58] <slickymaster> you and me both :P
[22:58] <Unit193> I don't know, LTS is supposed to mean something, right?
[22:58] <slickymaster> I'll have to look into that, before making the call
[22:59] <knome> historically, i don't think translations are usually considered SRU candidates
[22:59] <knome> that doesn't mean that with good argumenting we couldn't get those in
[23:00] <slickymaster> byt in pratical terms do you see it as doable?
[23:00] <slickymaster> /byt/but
[23:01] <knome> if you want a better, more accurate opinion (tm), you probably should be directly in contact with the SRU team
[23:01] <slickymaster> I mean, the only viable candidates would be the russian, and it would be great if it gets finished
[23:02] <knome> i think it would be nice to get more languages in, but in a way, i'm more interested in getting the credits in.
[23:02] <Unit193> ^ Wants his name in again. ;)
[23:02] <knome> well, i would be okay dropping my name, for the sake of it...
[23:03] <knome> it's just that i think it would make it easier to attract new translators
[23:03] <slickymaster> well were just 5-6 weeks before .1 release
[23:04] <slickymaster> and from your reasoning, I think I better re-target that call for U
[23:05] <knome> we've kind of said we'll include more translations for .1
[23:05] <knome> and there will be more point releases
[23:05] <slickymaster> I do agree with knome, crediting could potencially attract more translators
[23:05] <knome> will the decision taken now affect those as well?
[23:05] <knome> or are we willing to do an SRU if it brings us more than one language?
[23:06] <slickymaster> if that were to happen, I don't see why we shouldn't
[23:07] <slickymaster> one thing Unit193, those parser errors in http://paste.progval.net/show/QrIXUBSeNKm5J4jnidmH/ are caused by what?
[23:09] <knome> seems like the xubuntu.ent file is missing, or not properly loaded
[23:13] <slickymaster> one of the reasons behind my idea of anticipating the call for translators from U to .1 was exactly that it was said that we'd include more translations for .1
[23:15] <Unit193> knome: I'm kidding, you did a lot of work on FI, it'd be silly to drop it.
[23:15] <knome> Unit193, drop fi? yeah. ;)
[23:16] <knome> slickymaster, well the slight problem with that is that the U docs have a different target from the .1 docs.
[23:16] <Unit193> Mhmm.
[23:17] <Unit193> slickymaster: Also, not really sure, same build methods.
[23:17] <slickymaster> yes, but the fact still remains
[23:18] <knome> i'm off tomorrow and most of thursday, but after that, i could poke a/some SRU team member(s) to ask if they would approve the translation update to begin with.
[23:18] <knome> then we can consider if we want to do it or not
[23:18] <knome> if they deem it as "sure, go ahead", then i see little reason *not* to do that
[23:18] <slickymaster> that's a good plan
[23:18] <knome> but if they are more like 50/50, then we might consider if we really want to do the work
[23:19] <knome> especially as it seems to be only one language now
[23:19] <knome> Unit193, or, more to come?
[23:20] <slickymaster> I should go to bed. I'm not Unit193 and I'm awake for 20 hours now
[23:20] <Unit193> slickymaster: Good night.
[23:21] <slickymaster> lol
[23:21] <knome> night slickymaster
[23:21] <Unit193> knome: The only one that's been making progress is en_GB. :P
[23:22] <knome> uh
[23:22] <knome> what about es?
[23:22] <knome> how close?
[23:23] <Unit193> es.po   48.9024%
[23:23] <Unit193> ja.po   32.439%
[23:23] <Unit193> ru.po   65.7317%
[23:25] <slickymaster> and the french Unit193?
[23:25] <Unit193> fr.po   46.7073%
[23:27] <bluesabre> en_AU?
[23:28] <bluesabre> :)
[23:28] <knome> bluesabre, forget about that, it's just typoed english
[23:28] <bluesabre> haha
[23:29] <slickymaster> now I'm really off
[23:29] <knome> nighty
[23:29] <slickymaster> cy tomorrow all ->
[23:30] <Unit193> knome: Can you disable some translations on LP?
[23:31] <knome> i don't think so
[23:42] <Unit193> knome: Heh, for one thing I forgot to s/trusty/utopic/ .bzr/branch/branch.conf -i
[23:43] <Unit193> I mean it's still not working, but now I'm on the right branch.
[23:45] <knome> i've no idea what you're talking about ;)
[23:45] <Unit193> I was on the trusty branch, not the utopic branch.  It's still broken, however.
[23:46] <knome> aha
[23:46] <Unit193> You did say you get these issues too, right?
[23:47] <knome> entities missing?
[23:48] <knome> no, i haven't poked the branch in ages, just looked what david's paste looked like
[23:48] <Unit193> That was mine.
[23:48] <knome> oh
[23:48] <knome> again, off tomorrow and most of thu, and fri might go working with clients, but i should be available after that
[23:49] <Unit193> Dangit, clean chroot has no issues. >_+
[23:57] <knome> :)
[23:57] <knome> ok, i'm off
[23:57] <knome> have fun
[23:57] <Unit193> This doesn't make sense, I have all the required deps to build it, from the official repos, and no modifications...
[23:58] <Unit193> Bye.
[23:58] <knome> heh.


[07:02] <aborady> hi
[07:02] <aborady> anybody there ?
[08:17] <aborady> anybody here ?
[08:48] <aborady> hey
[10:24] <aborady> hey anybody here ?


[05:36] <lamalex> kenvandine: is empathy in karmic going to have adium support? or geoclue? or libchamplain?
[05:37] <lamalex> adium theme that is
[09:53] <mac_v> mrooney|w: hi... synaptic is either way going to be replaced in Karmic+1 , IMO , there is no need for a papercut
[09:53] <mac_v> we caould just let the task in synaptic remain and be fixed in synaptic
[09:54] <mac_v> could*
[13:40]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[14:27] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think you misread my comment yesterday
[14:27] <djsiegel> mac_v: which one?
[14:27] <djsiegel> I bet I did :)
[14:29] <mac_v> djsiegel: my reply was not about share / instal but rather a reply to "shouldn't the response be from the perspective of the respondent?"
[14:29] <djsiegel> yes
[14:30] <mac_v> djsiegel: just dont be too hasty in saying someone is bikeshedding  :/
[14:31] <djsiegel> mac_v, the bug is fixing the unknown antecedent of "them"
[14:31] <djsiegel> and your comment was that "share the disk" and "use the entire disk" are not phrased from the same perspective?
[14:31] <mac_v> djsiegel: yeah that was fine but adding the "I" , was not
[14:32] <djsiegel> ok, I see
[14:32] <djsiegel> What do you propose instead?
[14:32] <djsiegel> Does it make a difference to users?
[14:33] <djsiegel> Is it harder to use, or less beautiful right now?
[14:33] <djsiegel> If it communicates the choice (users can understand it without difficulty), it is bikeshedding unless there's an alternative that you can provide that is unambiguously better
[14:33] <djsiegel> so do it! :)
[14:33] <mac_v> djsiegel: installers , do not use  "I" , but since it is an installer , it will be in almost all the guides , and will be quickly pointed out
[14:34] <djsiegel> Installers do not use "I"?
[14:34] <djsiegel> Installer starts with "I"!
[14:34] <djsiegel> maybe Ubuntu's installer should be all about "I"
[14:35] <mac_v> thats what i said , if you want all as response ,  "I"  then the 3 need to be changed
[14:35] <djsiegel> So, you think the options should not be from the perspective of the user?
[14:35] <mac_v> I havent seen an installer , which has options like that
[14:36] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think rather than , patching it up , Evan canfix it properly
[14:36] <djsiegel> mac_v, that's fine, but what is your proposal
[14:36] <djsiegel> "show me the code"
[14:36] <mac_v> ah... just a sec
[14:36] <djsiegel> stop arguing these fine details, and just give the improved suggestion
[14:37] <djsiegel> I understand your hesitancy to use "I", but it's possible that using "I" makes the software friendly, easy to use and understand
[14:37] <djsiegel> there is no inviolable law of nature set against the use of "I" in software installers
[14:37] <mac_v> djsiegel: Share the disk with existing installations [ allows choosing between them when You start the computer]
[14:38] <djsiegel> ok, so, you've added a parenthetical voice
[14:38] <djsiegel> I argue that it's now harder to read
[14:38] <mac_v> ok i give up
[14:38] <djsiegel> "share" is imperative
[14:38] <djsiegel> the user is telling the installer to share
[14:38] <djsiegel> then it shifts in voice back to the installer
[14:39] <mac_v> djsiegel: the words within brackets are explanations , similar to the [advanced]
[14:39] <djsiegel> but I do think it's more grammatically correct than my suggestion
[14:39] <mac_v> 3rd option
[14:39] <djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations, choosing between them when I start the computer
[14:39] <djsiegel> "choosing" seems the wrong tense
[14:40] <djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations; allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
[14:40] <djsiegel> two commands
[14:41] <djsiegel> but the semi-colon is recondite
[14:41] <kholerabbi> Share the disk with existing installations and allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
[14:41] <djsiegel> hmm
[14:41] <djsiegel> yes that's good
[14:41] <djsiegel> we're getting longer and longer though
[14:41] <kholerabbi> Sorry, I actually haven't a clue what this is about.
[14:42] <djsiegel> hehe
[14:42] <djsiegel> np, good suggestion kholerabbi
[14:42] <djsiegel> hmm, I'd prefer a comma
[14:42] <djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations, allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
[14:42] <djsiegel> mac_v, better? ^
[14:43] <mac_v> djsiegel: better ,
[14:43] <djsiegel> "share the disk", "allow me to choose", "use the entire disk"
[14:43] <djsiegel> "specify partitions manually..." is the odd one out
[14:44] <kholerabbi> wtf is empathy telling me "doesn't" is bad spelling O.o
[14:46] <mac_v> djsiegel: "Let me specify manually"
[14:47] <djsiegel> hmm, we're supposed to avoid "letting" the user take action
[14:47] <djsiegel> it makes the user feel like the computer is in control instead of vice versa
[14:47] <mac_v> hmmm..
[14:48] <MDC1> "custom design"
[14:48] <mac_v> djsiegel: "Choose advanced options"
[14:48] <djsiegel> too vague
[14:48] <djsiegel> "Use special partitioning (advanced)"
[14:49] <kholerabbi> 'advanced' should be avoided
[14:51] <mac_v> kholerabbi: advanced needs to be mentioned so that novice users dont mess up
[14:52] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think it sounds good , or "Use advanced partitioning"
[14:53] <djsiegel> "Use advanced partitioning...
[14:53] <djsiegel> and no need for "(advanced)"
[14:53] <djsiegel> great! want to update the bug?
[14:54] <djsiegel> post a new comment with just the suggestions and a small comment, let the "mockup" argue itself
[14:58] <kholerabbi> "Share the disk with existing installations, allow me to choose between them when I start the computer"... I'm tired, so might be nit-picking, but "allowing" sounds more correct than "allow".
[15:07] <mac_v> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/400047/comments/14
[15:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in hundredpapercuts "Installer's "Install them side by side" option is vague and confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[15:41] <AnAnt> Hello
[15:41] <AnAnt> is it possible for an app using notify-OSD to disable "truncation" capability from notification daemon ?
[15:42] <AnAnt> if not, how can I know the maximum length of text before it gets truncated ?
[15:45] <mac_v> AnAnt: apps cant override the truncation , i think the limit is in the wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD , if not, ask MacSlow
[15:45] <MacSlow> correct, apps cannot override that
[15:46] <MacSlow> AnAnt, the reason is to avoid spam
[15:46] <MacSlow> notification-spam
[15:46] <AnAnt> I see
[15:50] <AnAnt> thanks
[15:50] <AnAnt> so, is messaging menu only for messaging (IM / email ...) apps ?
[15:53] <AnAnt> back to the first question, the wiki says that maximum text length is 10 lines
[15:54] <AnAnt> now, how long is a single line?
[15:55] <hyperair> hmm regarding that messaging menu, it appears to be using some strange font hinting that results in the text having a shade of purple
[16:08] <mac_v> hyperair: lol ... bug # ?
[16:08] <hyperair> didn't file one
[16:08]  * hyperair is lazy
[16:09] <hyperair> you can go file it for me =D
[16:09] <mac_v> hyperair: hehe... WFM , so i cant complain ;p
[16:09] <AnAnt> is there a wiki for messaging menu ?
[16:10] <mac_v> AnAnt: search the wiki , there is a page
[16:14] <mac_v> mpt:  about the nautilus spatial mode , are you fixing it or ... ?
[16:15] <hyperair> spatial mode?
[16:16] <hyperair> is that the strange mode that opens a new window with every folder?
[16:16] <mac_v> yeah
[17:06] <mpt> mac_v, no, I haven't done anything about that
[17:07] <mac_v> mpt: ah... should i file a bug?
[17:07] <mac_v> upstream that is
[17:08] <mpt> mac_v, sure
[17:08] <mac_v> mpt: any other alternate name for spatial mode?
[17:08] <mac_v> i'll add that to the bug
[17:09] <mpt> mac_v, as I suggested yesterday, I think the "Open" item should always be there to open in a spatial-mode window, and the "Browse" item always there to open in a browser-mode window
[17:10] <mpt> so, no need for a special term
[17:10] <mac_v> ok
[18:49] <mrooney|w> mac_v: yeah that sounds reasonable
[18:51] <mac_v> mrooney|w: i usually invalidate any synaptic bugs , letting mvo deal with it at his leisure ;)
[19:18] <mrooney|w> mac_v: did you see those 20 papercuts all filed by the same person last night, with the entire bug in the description
[19:18] <mrooney|w> looks like fun!
[19:19] <mac_v> yeah... i have them all bookmarked , to be invalidated ;p most are just new idea!
[19:19] <mac_v> ideas*
[19:20] <mac_v> mrooney|w: you should have seen papercuts initaily , every person would file 10 bugs , all new ideas! once they know wht it is actually they stop
[19:21] <mrooney|w> yeah
[19:21] <mrooney|w> I wish it was clearer that papercuts are just a task and that the bug also needs be placed in the right package
[19:22] <mac_v> mrooney|w: pls , invalidate them , i just got tied up with , with a few crashes in my sys. ,
[19:22] <mac_v> mrooney|w: this should make things easier > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Invalid%20One%20Hundred%20Paper%20Cuts
[19:22] <mrooney|w> I am at work ATM so I may not get to them :)
[19:23] <mac_v> mrooney|w: np ... ok... ;) , i'll get to it later


[18:42] <BlackJohnny> hello
[18:43] <BlackJohnny> anyone knows why libEGL would give such an error message on a device running ubuntu-touch? libEGL warning: DRI2: xcb_connect failed
[18:43] <BlackJohnny> i assume that is an attempt to connect to X server
[18:52] <anpok> yes


[01:32] <nigelb> AlanBell: Goa was lovely :)
[01:37] <hajour> good night all :)
[01:52] <Pendulum> morning nigelb
[01:56] <nigelb> morning Pendulum :)
[18:32] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: you run dasher in Ubuntu, right?
[18:33] <charlie-tca> Do you have System -> Preferences -> Assistive Technologies -> Enable assistive technologies    checked?
[19:03] <charlie-tca> well, anyway, with assistive technologies checked, I can not reproduce the dasher segfaults
[19:07] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm fairly certain it's checked (I'm not on Ubuntu right now)
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[19:08] <Pendulum> it may just be rotten luck for me. it's not consistant that it crashes :-/
[19:12] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: yes, it's checked
[19:13] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I got two of you crashing it, and I can't seem to. I will keep trying
[19:54] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: there's hope. According to the developer, I stumbled on something that he thinks might help get it fixed
[19:56] <UndiFineD> sad: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637621
[19:56] <ubot2> Gnome bug 637621 in speech "Orca crashes, logs me out" [Major,Resolved: invalid]
[19:57] <UndiFineD> waited for a month for "mike" to contact me on making a backup of at-spi registry
[20:00] <charlie-tca> like so many others, we get to try to figure out what went wrong
[20:02] <maco> Pendulum: can you "ulimit -c 0" please?
[20:02] <maco> i think its 0...lemme double check
[20:02] <UndiFineD> yes, and I was willing to make a backup, but then not to be contected is ... wrong
[20:02] <Pendulum> maco: huh?
[20:03] <maco> sudo ulimit -S -c 0
[20:03] <maco> itll make it so when something crashes you get a core file instead of no hints remaining of what happend
[20:03] <Pendulum> ah
[20:03] <Pendulum> that is helpful :)
[20:03] <Pendulum> yes, I'll do that
[20:04] <maco> that can be tossed at gdb to get a stacktrace
[20:04] <maco> with stacktraces, maaaaaybe i could try to be helpful
[20:05] <Pendulum> maco: it's telling me command not found for ulimit
[20:05] <maco> oh hmm apparently use it without sudo
[20:06] <Pendulum> have set it so we'll see what happens, I guess?
[20:06] <maco> and whoops i have this backwards. ulimit -S -c unlimited
[20:06] <maco> 0 is the disabling thing thats by default
[20:06] <maco> (this is why i should open up the google results)
[20:07] <maco> from http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-313498.html looks like you put it in .bashrc and then whatever you start from that shell will spit core dumps, so if you're ok with starting dasher from command line...
[20:08] <maco> hrmph. i thought there was a systemwide way to set it permanently... maybe that was with sudo but is now gone? *grumble*
[20:09] <charlie-tca> hm, maco, thanks
[20:09] <charlie-tca> that reminds to have the stacktrace added to the bug reports by apport
[20:09] <Pendulum> I always start dasher from command line as it's the only way to do direct input
[20:21] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I know you're probably doing the dinner and children to bed thing, but when you're around next I'm just curious about when you think you'll get the blog post up :)
[20:22] <AlanBell> I am on a train right now
[20:25] <UndiFineD> AlanBell: you should be in the train
[20:25] <UndiFineD> england != india
[20:31] <Pendulum> maco: I think I have set things up correctly. Where would I find the core dumps?
[20:32] <maco> Pendulum: in the dir from which you run dasher
[20:32] <maco> you can test by using kill with whatever is SIGABORT
[20:35] <Pendulum> ?
[20:42]  * AlanBell is now off a train
[20:42] <AlanBell> blog post should be soonish
[20:42] <AlanBell> I have real work to do
[20:42] <AlanBell> but the blog post is more tempting
[20:42] <AlanBell> and a tax return
[20:42] <AlanBell> blog post is *way* more tempting than that
[20:43] <Pendulum> AlanBell: so it will be up today or tomorrow?
[20:43] <AlanBell> I should think so, yes
[20:44] <Pendulum> (I just was poking to get a sense of what day it would be up, not saying "must be up now" ;-) )
[20:49] <Pendulum> I wonder if I could use my powerchair to go get the bin from the end of the drive...
[20:51] <Pendulum> I am tempted to try since the chances of my fucking a joint up going out to get it are high, but I need to bring it in before the snowplows start...
[20:54] <UndiFineD> Pendulum: no friendly neighbour you can call ?
[20:54] <Pendulum> nope
[20:54] <AlanBell> could the powerchair get stuck?
[20:54] <UndiFineD> :(
[20:54] <Pendulum> nah, there's not much on the ground yet, just enough that I'm worried that walking I'd slip and hurt something
[20:55] <Pendulum> I didn't even slip more than a couple inches yesterday and one of my knees went
[20:57] <Pendulum> okay, going to attempt whatever i attempt now before the snow gets any worse
[21:00] <AlanBell> Pendulum: smile and wave if you spot any other people out moving their bins
[21:04] <Pendulum> actually, that didn't go so badly
[21:06] <Pendulum> so answer is in fact "yes I could"
[21:21] <IdleOne> damn it Pendulum you had me worried you were going to hurt yourself
[21:21] <IdleOne> I'm glad you didn't :)
[21:24] <Pendulum> heh
[21:30] <maco> Pendulum: sorry my carpool as leaving
[21:30] <Pendulum> maco: s'ok
[21:30] <maco> Pendulum: so after you start a shell that has had the ulimit command run, you run dasher. then you can do  kill -6 PID   to abort it which will make a core file
[21:34] <Pendulum> it has not told me anything in my shell about there being a core file :-/
[21:36] <maco> hrmm if i wanna install dasher i have to go to *$
[21:37] <maco> 17MB will not download quickly on my usual connection
[21:37] <AlanBell> dasher is great
[21:37] <AlanBell> until your keyboard segfaults
[21:37] <Pendulum> hmm... so I ran ulimit -S -c unlimited (in the same terminal) in case I'd entered it wrong the first time
[21:38] <Pendulum> this time I when I hit enter after that (so had not started dasher), I got:
[21:38] <Pendulum> [1]+  Aborted                 (core dumped) dasher -a direct
[21:39] <Pendulum> so I'm not sure if that means that it's not done the core dump?
[21:42] <maco> hit ls
[21:42] <Pendulum> err.. I meant *now
[21:42] <Pendulum> faily hands are faily ;)
[21:43] <Pendulum> ls gives me something called core \o/
[21:44] <charlie-tca> I keep trying, sooner or later I will reproduce the segfaults with a stacktrace, here.
[21:44] <Pendulum> well I've segfaulted it at least once today so at some point I'll get another one
[21:44] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:45] <AlanBell> hi this is using dasher but for some odd reason it  isn't seeming to want to type capitals
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I guess I am too dumb to give up on it. It has to happen sooner or later, right?
[21:45] <Pendulum> AlanBell: in the right bottom corner there's a drop down menu
[21:46] <Pendulum> you can change your alphabet there
[21:46] <AlanBell> Thank you
[21:46] <Pendulum> I recommend 'English with numerals and lots of punctuation'
[21:47] <AlanBell> segfault \o/
[21:47] <AlanBell> if you type carefully it kind of works
[21:48] <Pendulum> You get faster quickly
[21:48] <AlanBell> slam the mouse over to the right and type gibberish as fast as it will do it and it blows up
[21:48] <Pendulum> but mine doesn't always segfault that way. I can be going at a reasonable speed, but not too fast and it'll go :(
[21:51] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/558737/ backtrace
[21:53] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: does that help?
[21:54] <charlie-tca> missing most of the symbols, but I can attach it and see what they say
[21:55] <Pendulum> I'll see what I can get, too
[21:55] <Pendulum> I just got a core dump from it segfaulting on me
[21:56] <charlie-tca> Looks to me like the same trace as the gedit failure.
[21:56] <charlie-tca> That's good. At least it gives us more information
[21:56] <maco> those function names look annoying
[21:56] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: should I upload this dump? Or what should I do with it? (it's currently telling me I don't have the right program to open the file)
[21:57] <maco> "one step further"? what is *that* supposed to tell whoever reads the code?
[21:57] <maco> Pendulum: do you have gdb?
[21:57] <charlie-tca> maco: how do we use the coredump now/
[21:58] <maco> gdb -c core
[21:58] <AlanBell> "gdb dasher core"
[21:58] <AlanBell> then bt
[21:58] <maco> or that
[21:58] <maco> (im skimming manpage)
[21:59] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: this is what I got in the dump http://paste.ubuntu.com/558744/
[22:03] <charlie-tca> Thanks. I will process it
[22:05] <AlanBell> here is DasherModel.cpp which seems to be where it is crashing http://paste.ubuntu.com/558747/
[22:07] <AlanBell> the comments on line 542 and 544 point to a certain lack of confidence in that area
[22:08] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:11] <AlanBell> Pendulum: can you type "bt" at the (gdb) prompt
[22:12] <charlie-tca> Will it give a usable trace without the debug symbols installed?
[22:12] <AlanBell> that is what I did
[22:12] <AlanBell> and Pendulum crashed differently
[22:13] <Pendulum> http://paste.ubuntu.com/558750/
[22:13] <AlanBell> I crashed in RecursiveOutput, Pendulum crashed in HandleOutput
[22:27] <maco> charlie-tca: dont think so
[22:28] <charlie-tca> I will run it on my test install with all the -dbgsym packages installed when I get this other stuff done
[22:29] <maco> ok, recursiveoutput is itty bitty
[22:29] <maco> and given its name, im guessing there's just a wrong end-condition for a loop
[22:30] <maco> as thats whats usually wrong with recursion
[22:37] <maco> AlanBell: can you set a breakpoint on RecursiveOutput running with your core file?
[22:39] <maco> AlanBell: then use "step" and "next" to go line by line til the crash and pastebin that output?
[22:40] <maco> (may want to | tee dasher-dbg)
[22:43] <AlanBell> maco: i have run out of knowledge :) how do I do that?
[22:45] <maco> load up the core file and type "break RecursiveOutput" (i think...it might need the something:: bit before it, but...we'll find out) then hit enter, then "continue", and it should stop when it first encounters RecursiveOutput, then "step" then "next" back and forth til it crashes. may want to do continue over and over for one run-through to see how many times it hits that function before crashing so you can continue enough times before stepping
[22:45] <maco>  on a second run
[22:45] <maco> (i have The Art of Debugging sitting on the table in front of me because im a gdb noob too)
[22:50] <maco> i figured i had no reason to play with gdb til i figured out how to read a stack trace in something other than Java :P
[22:50] <maco> and then never got around to learning gdb
[22:57] <AlanBell> well that was a fail
[22:57] <AlanBell> managed to crash unity
[22:58] <AlanBell> or mutter
[22:59] <JanC> mutter?
[22:59] <AlanBell> I will have another play with that tomorrow
[22:59] <AlanBell> JanC: old unity
[23:00] <JanC> I've never been able to run unity + mutter for more than 30 minutes without crashing...  ;)
[23:01] <AlanBell> I have been running it for months, I am trying to like it
[23:03] <AlanBell> nsfw but somewhat on-topic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv3tadz5Q3o
[23:03] <JanC> unity in natty is much more likeable
[23:04] <JanC> doesn't crash & about 100× faster
[23:07] <charlie-tca> apparently, I did something wrong then. I couldn't get it to work in natty
[23:08] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I want to know where that was!


[12:28] <hajour> hai i am back again
[12:58] <hajour> hai pendulum
[12:58] <hajour> my pc is working again
[13:00] <Pendulum> hi hajour :)
[13:01] <Pendulum> I'm actually only online checking e-mail as I'm migrainey
[13:01]  * maco hands Pendulum a cup of tea
[13:01] <UndiFineD> warning you'll get migrains from spam
[13:03] <hajour> sorry to hear Pendulum .hope it sal be gone sone.
[13:05] <hajour> my subpage from wiki  with poems is ready now
[13:07] <hajour> 2 are in dutch.translation is standing next to the poem.1was english already
[14:33] <hajour> hai MichelleQ
[14:35] <MichelleQ1> Hi
[17:34] <hajour> hai charlie-tca
[17:37] <hajour> hi
[17:37] <charlie-tca> Hello, hajour
[17:37] <charlie-tca> I seem to have blinked again
[17:38] <hajour> UndiFineD, have made a pcp key for me
[17:38] <charlie-tca> meaning my internet is doing things wrong
[17:38] <charlie-tca> hajour, great! Glad you got it
[17:38] <hajour> a ok
[17:39] <hajour> i have signed in at the mailing list from accessibilityteam and forum.
[17:39] <charlie-tca> Good.  Not to worry, most of us know translations are not always good
[17:42] <hajour> i wanted to be good.
[17:42] <hajour> the mail i mean
[17:43] <charlie-tca> I know, but that is not always possible.
[17:44] <hajour> UndiFineD, hat not time that moment so i hat tryed to do it myself.
[17:45] <MichelleQ1> hajour: don't worry about it.  :-)
[17:45] <charlie-tca> You are doing fine.
[17:46] <hajour> is the mail also a introduction in the forum from accessibility?
[17:47] <hajour> i mean is it come on the forum site?
[17:49] <hajour> i just dont want to be called stupid again.
[17:51] <hajour> o sorry dont want to be annoying
[17:52] <hajour> have a nice evening all bye
[17:58] <charlie-tca> hajour, to the best of my knowledge, the email to the mailing list does not go to the forums too. I think you do the forums through the browser only.
[17:59] <hajour> ok thanks charlie-tca
[18:02] <hajour> i have finish my other subpage on my wiki profile
[18:04] <hajour> hai Pendulum
[18:05] <hajour> hope you feeling better
[18:14] <hajour> mmm i was wondering .is it the meaning that the ubuntu forums,mail have to be accessible for people with handicap?
[18:17] <hajour> because i had never succeeded without UndiFineD
[18:19] <hajour> i have read the page 5 times.still not remember all.
[18:20] <charlie-tca> mail should be, but it depends on the email client you use. Forums, I don't really know how accessible they are at this time.
[18:23] <hajour> now i have a small monitor.but if have understand good most people got a 15 ore 17 inch monitor?
[18:24] <charlie-tca> Mine are all desktop systems, so I run three monitors, one on each test system.  17, 19, and 22 inch
[18:25] <hajour> also a part of the  people have a laptop .there also not realy big i think
[18:25] <charlie-tca> meebey, too
[18:26] <charlie-tca> well, that should be : me, too.
[18:26] <hajour> i mean.if you have 1 for work you dont want to have a heavy laptop i think
[18:28] <hajour> sec. i go trye something out.
[18:29] <hajour> mm dos not work
[18:31] <hajour> have trye ctrl + to make the lines bigger
[18:31] <hajour> but it cant be done
[18:34] <hajour> oke i think i go make a exsample on a subpage with lines  i think.ore is that a bad idea?
[18:37] <charlie-tca> Ctrl + won't work? Will    View -> Zoom -> Zoom out work ?
[18:37] <hajour> i sal trye sec.
[18:39] <hajour> where view stand?
[18:41] <hajour> mm before my pc was crashed my spelingcontrol was on english.now it is on dutch.how can i get back spellingcontrol in chat in englishs?
[18:57] <hajour> UndiFineD,  is sleeping now.he hat not sleep last night.
[19:00] <hajour> i sal ask tomorrow to UndiFineD
[19:15] <hajour> hai JanC
[20:03] <hajour> hai MichelleQ
[20:04] <hajour> have to relog.brb
[20:05] <hajour> back again.
[20:05] <hajour> needed to relog for instaled colors
[20:07] <hajour> MichelleQ, just to be sure.have i doing something wrong?
[20:09] <AlanBell> evening all
[20:09] <hajour> hai AlanBell
[20:09] <AlanBell> hi hajour
[20:10] <MichelleQ1> hajour: what do you mean wrong?
[20:11] <maco> hajour: the way you got it on english was to run xchat as:   LANG=en xchat
[20:11] <hajour> you was left suddenly.
[20:12] <MichelleQ1> oh, no, you'll get used to my coming and going - I'm also a stay-at-home-mom and do a lot of running around
[20:13] <hajour> pff i just a little bit emo i think.i just need to be how you call it stronger.and less sensitive i think
[20:14] <MichelleQ1> No worries.    You're doing just fine.
[20:18] <hajour> :)
[20:19] <hajour> ok
[20:19] <hajour> maco, where can i find ?LANG
[20:19] <maco> you just type it on the command line
[20:19] <hajour> a ok
[20:20] <hajour> LANG=en xchat
[20:20] <maco> you can also "gksudo gedit /usr/share/applications/xchat.desktop" (i think...) and change the Exec= line to say that if you want the menu one to automatically do it
[20:20] <hajour> i have done it .stil on dutch
[20:22] <maco> not in the xchat window. open a terminal and run xchat from it that way.   you have aspell-en installed right? i think you installed it yesterday
[20:23] <hajour> no someone else have done that
[20:24] <maco> oh, i thought JanC had you install it yesterday
[20:26] <hajour> i dont remember wo that have done.i cant reed back on chat.history is gone.yesterday my pc was crashed.Undifined have reinstald
[20:27] <JanC> editing that file isn't a good idea (it will be overwritten when there is a package upgrade), better copy it to ~/.local/share/applications/ and edit the copy
[20:28] <JanC> or as an alternative, a simple script can be used for this
[20:29] <maco> i dont think i knew about that dir
[20:29] <hajour> cant copy in here
[20:29] <JanC> maco: that's where alacarte also puts its overrides
[20:30] <maco> ah
[20:30] <JanC> it's an fd.o standard location I suppose
[20:31] <JanC> I'm not sure you can use something like LANG=en in .desktop files though
[20:32] <hajour> i have sighned in by mailinglist,forum from accessibility.and in beginnersgroup mail.
[20:34] <hajour> tomorrow undifined helps me with the rest.he hat no sleep last night.he wanted first to fix my pc for me
[20:34] <hajour> so now he was real tired
[20:35] <hajour> he is sleeping now
[20:38] <hajour> o mm if i have understand good.there is also for young people?
[20:38] <hajour> my daughter have ask that
[20:41] <mhall119> there is an ubuntu-youth group
[20:42] <hajour> ok.also for dutch?she is afraid her english is not good enough.she got dislectie to
[20:42] <mhall119> that I don't know, I think the ubuntu-youth is primarily english
[20:43] <mhall119> the regular dutch team may be friendly enough to welcome younger members though
[20:43] <hajour> mm i sal look to it.she is good in pdrwaning and painting in real life
[20:44] <hajour> pff draw dont no to say
[20:44] <hajour> how i mean
[20:47] <hajour> tomorrow i go find out how inkscape works
[20:47] <hajour> hai Pendulum
[20:49] <hajour> it sal be a challenge.normally i work just with paper and pencil enz.
[20:49] <maco> itll take more than a day...
[20:49] <mhall119> yeah, I still don't know my way around inkscape
[20:50] <hajour> i now i dont mind.i am just to that everything takes time
[20:50] <hajour> i just go treu till i can do it
[20:51] <hajour> to bad i got no scanner
[20:51] <hajour> i have some idea s for ubuntu
[20:52] <hajour> i go trye to work that out
[20:55] <hajour> pitty ubuntu have nothing on my skill  to make poems.
[20:56] <hajour> XD i now it sounds silly that someone like me makes poems because of my dislectie
[20:57] <JanC> you can always read them  ☺
[20:57] <JanC> or speak them
[20:57] <hajour> i make them
[20:57] <JanC> (reading might be difficult :p )
[20:58] <hajour> just watch my sub page in my profile
[20:58] <JanC> I mean, you can always say them aloud and record that, instead of writing them down
[20:59] <hajour> till now i have writhe them.and undifined checks on spelling.also i look on google how to writhe
[20:59] <hajour> copie past:))
[21:00] <hajour> its often to noisy here to record.4 kids
[22:27] <hajour> charlie-tca, do you now ?what is wrong with the chat
[22:28] <charlie-tca> Sorry, I don't know. sometimes the network connections are affected by weather or too many users, though.
[22:30] <hajour> o and i discoverd my subpage with poems is gone
[22:36] <charlie-tca> hajour, what was the page?
[22:38] <hajour> i found it by work ore something i only dont now how to come there treu my page.but this is the page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/poems
[22:39] <charlie-tca> Still there
[22:39] <charlie-tca> I can make it go through your page, if you want
[22:42] <hajour> if you will you make my very happy
[22:42] <hajour> it was the meany it was a sub page
[22:45] <charlie-tca> How's that?
[22:46] <hajour> sec i go look :)
[22:47] <hajour> very nice.you now i have make them myself.
[22:47] <charlie-tca> Happy to help
[22:47] <hajour> i have translate 2.the dutch version stands next to the translation
[22:48] <hajour> 1 was already english
[22:48] <hajour> UndiFineD,  have done spelling correction for me
[22:49] <hajour> the english poem fly like a bird is 1 of my first poems i ever made
[22:50] <hajour> more then 2 years ago
[22:50] <charlie-tca> Did you write all three yourself?
[22:50] <hajour> yes
[22:50] <hajour> i got 165 poems written
[22:51] <charlie-tca> WOW!
[22:51] <hajour> and it is not really bad thought
[22:55] <hajour> you now first time my social worker have say i have to try to wright.i laugd .i mean me,dislectie,and i have to wright
[22:56] <charlie-tca> heh
[22:56] <charlie-tca> but it worked, didn't it
[22:56] <hajour> you understand i first thought she was joking
[22:57] <hajour> yes
[22:58] <hajour> in this .i was able? dont now it is the right word.to get of my emotions that way
[22:59] <charlie-tca> You wrote that fine.
[22:59] <hajour> but stil i am depending on others about the spelling
[23:00] <charlie-tca> That's okay. At least you are trying
[23:00] <hajour> a dislection program here cost 1295 euro
[23:01] <hajour> i cant pay that
[23:01] <charlie-tca> I understand
[23:02] <hajour> yes it s stays by trying soo you have see
[23:02] <hajour> :)
[23:03] <hajour> i just wonder what i have about that skill.
[23:05] <AlanBell> someone called DanteAshton might join in a bit, he is a wheelchair user in the UK and interested in helping on the persona project
[23:05]  * AlanBell is off to bed
[23:07] <hajour> sleep well AlanBell
[23:09] <hajour> hai DanteAshton
[23:09] <AlanBell> o/ DanteAshton
[23:09] <DanteAshton> Helloooo
[23:10] <DanteAshton> Just wondering if I can be of any use...
[23:10] <AlanBell> I am done for the day, but ask any questions, and have a look at the existing persona documents
[23:11] <hajour> i dont no mutch DanteAshton  i just join in last fryday
[23:11] <AlanBell> the basic idea of the project is to communicate to developers about accessibility in a more engaging way than before
[23:11] <DanteAshton> Oh goody, I have a knack for going between high level devs and silly end-users...
[23:11] <AlanBell> excellent
[23:11] <DanteAshton> Thank you, Alan :)
[23:12] <AlanBell> the personas should all be realistic, but slightly awesome people in some way
[23:12] <hajour> but i have put some sugestions where i had problems with and some solutions to.
[23:12] <AlanBell> we want people to think, yeah, I could be friends with that person
[23:12] <charlie-tca> hello, DanteAshton
[23:13] <AlanBell> night all
[23:13] <DanteAshton> Hello, Charlie.
[23:14] <hajour> night AlanBell
[23:14] <hajour> this is my page anyway DanteAshton  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour
[23:14] <DanteAshton> Right, what do I do to get started?
[23:14] <DanteAshton> and night AlanBell, thanks again :)
[23:15] <hajour> and this are the sugestions on my sub page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/accesibility
[23:15] <hajour> they hat told me to make a wiki.ubuntu page
[23:16] <charlie-tca> here is the wiki page we started with:
[23:16] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas
[23:16] <hajour> i have get help to with it.
[23:17] <hajour> charlie-tca, i wish i good help with it but i needed UndiFineD  to to help with the reading and spelling
[23:18] <charlie-tca> I know. but we have to point DanteAshton at it now, too
[23:18] <hajour> yes.
[23:18] <charlie-tca> DanteAshton, it is best to use a sub-page like hajour did
[23:18] <DanteAshton> Bloody hell...UndiFineD, what pies DONT you deal in?
[23:18] <hajour> ?
[23:18] <DanteAshton> You'll have to excuse me, people, I'm trying to calm down my hysterical team-mates
[23:18] <DanteAshton> That man is everywhere...
[23:19] <hajour> lol
[23:19] <hajour> he is my boyfriend
[23:19] <charlie-tca> Okay. A lot of us are all over the place
[23:19] <DanteAshton> Ahhhh...congrats
[23:19] <DanteAshton> No, the Ubuntu Advert Team
[23:19] <hajour> rofl
[23:20] <hajour> i now if he is on chat he has 30 chats open ad the same time XD
[23:21] <DanteAshton> That explains why he is always never around when I need him :P
[23:21] <hajour> he is sleeping now because he slept not last night
[23:21] <hajour> he wanted first to reinstalate my pc
[23:22] <hajour> but after 36 hours no sleep he was realy tired
[23:22] <hajour> its night now here
[23:23] <DanteAshton> Same here, I'm only an hour behind
[23:23] <hajour> :) uk i think
[23:23] <DanteAshton> Right...well...to introduce myself, I'm Dante, a technical writer and graphics artist...if anyone needs a hand with either of those things, do contact me :)
[23:24] <DanteAshton> and your right, hajour
[23:24] <hajour> o great graphics
[23:26] <hajour> sorry for my bad writhing. i got dislectie.i every time guess ore go to google to see how to writhe
[23:26] <hajour> hai MichelleQ
[23:26] <DanteAshton> Dont worry, hajour, I've had a lot of experience dealing with dyslexia, so I can understand you :)
[23:26] <charlie-tca> yes!
[23:26] <hajour> i found my poems back again
[23:27] <charlie-tca> We have a whole wiki we are trying to staighten out. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility
[23:27] <hajour> charlie-tca,  have helped to attached on my wiki page
[23:27] <charlie-tca> I will be contacting you for help
[23:28] <hajour> i have good idea s for the persona s charlie-tca  but my writhing is terrible
[23:28] <hajour> i have helped UndiFineD  also with daniela
[23:28] <charlie-tca> I know you do. Maybe DanteAshton can help you, too
[23:28] <DanteAshton> I'd be happy to :)
[23:29] <hajour> its just that spelling :(
[23:29] <hajour> nice
[23:30] <DanteAshton> ahhhh poo....sadly, hajour, I'm required back in the real world now, but I'll help soon!
[23:30] <DanteAshton> Toodles everyone!
[23:30] <hajour> if he can do the spelling correction. i sal do gtommorrow the persona s
[23:31] <charlie-tca> Great! you have some really good ideas, so things will start rolling now.
[23:31] <hajour> if my pc was not crashed i hat writhe to day already
[23:32] <`marianne`> hiya
[23:33] <hajour> cant help it to see the sense of humor from it i write .with my dislectie
[23:33] <hajour> hiya marianne
[23:33] <charlie-tca> Hello, `marianne`
[23:34] <charlie-tca> hajour, you will do fine
[23:35] <hajour> charlie-tca,  i stil have to use on it that people think i got idea s. think it needs time
[23:35] <hajour> good idea s i mean
[23:36] <charlie-tca> This it correct. Sometimes it does come as a surprise, doesn't it?
[23:36] <hajour> yes i am not use to that
[23:38] <hajour> o and charlie-tca  i dont now when someone is new ore not
[23:40] <hajour> hai Cheri703
[23:40] <Cheri703> hi hajour
[23:44] <hajour> where i can find the page to see who is working on which part of the accessibility program
[23:44] <charlie-tca> hajour, you will get where you know new and old people. Usually, we get told, just like with Dante today
[23:44] <charlie-tca> Hello, Cheri703
[23:44] <Cheri703> hey charlie-tca
[23:44] <hajour> ok charlie-tca
[23:44] <charlie-tca> how goes things today?
[23:45] <charlie-tca> Cheri703, how goes things today?
[23:45] <Cheri703> alright, just killing time while husband is in a meeting
[23:46] <hajour> oops almost forgot to take my medicin brb
[23:46] <charlie-tca> great!
[23:47] <Cheri703> times like this I love having a netbook :)
[23:53] <hajour> back again
[23:54] <hajour> netbook?
[23:54] <Cheri703> small laptop without a cd drive
[23:54] <hajour> a ok
[23:55] <hajour> eeepc you mean?
[23:55] <hajour> something like that?
[23:56] <Cheri703> yes, mine is from zareason, it came with ubuntu on it
[23:56] <Cheri703> but same idea
[23:58] <hajour> i got eeepc.it is Undifined s old work laptop.my old pc was deceased :) after 7 years hard work
[23:59] <charlie-tca> hajour, I think the wiki page you want does not exist
[23:59] <hajour> ?
[23:59] <hajour> how can that
[23:59] <charlie-tca> who is working on which part
[23:59] <hajour> a ok
[23:59] <charlie-tca> I don't think it is written down, since we all just work where needed
[23:59] <hajour> mm


[07:33]  * lpotter does a happy dance
[08:59] <Saviq> lpotter, congratz? :)
[08:59] <lpotter> :) thanks
[08:59] <Saviq> cimi, need to un-rebase https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/unity8/shadow-ubuntu-store-icon/+merge/279588
[08:59] <Saviq> lpotter, welcome back, then?
[09:00] <lpotter> yep. but not until January
[09:01] <Saviq> nice
[09:30] <cimi> Saviq, pushing in a sec
[09:59] <sil2100> Saviq: you want me to force merge silo 14 so that the commits are in the stable branch?
[10:10] <Saviq> sil2100, I'll take care, thanks
[10:10] <Saviq> sil2100, oh, I can't
[10:10] <Saviq> sil2100, yeah, please merge
[10:18] <sil2100> Saviq: ok :)
[13:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, we didn't get any design concept for the internal screen "control panel" did we?
[13:26] <mzanetti> Saviq, I got something from paty now
[13:26] <mzanetti> saviq, not really official by design, but looks professional enough :)
[13:26] <mzanetti> let me forward it
[13:27] <mzanetti> saviq, not all of it makes sense, but she's on hols this week
[13:28] <Saviq> mzanetti, ack
[13:34] <seb128> Saviq, "control panel" being settings?
[13:35] <Saviq> seb128, yeah
[13:35] <seb128> Saviq, mpt did that some months ago, see Display on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemSettings
[13:36] <seb128> but yeah, that's only for the pocket pc and probably assuming you don't change resolution on the phone
[13:36] <seb128> so no internel screen
[13:36] <Saviq> ack
[13:46] <Saviq> greyback, which thread would you say is blocking here http://paste.ubuntu.com/13823412/
[13:46]  * Saviq thinking #1
[13:46] <Saviq> can't find dbg syms for lttng though
[13:47] <greyback> Saviq: "info threads" please
[13:47] <mpt> Saviq, what does the internal screen need settings for?
[13:47] <greyback> Saviq: is that on shutdown?
[13:49] <greyback> looks more like a startup hang
[13:49] <greyback> thread2 looks strange
[13:49] <greyback> ah, I've seen seens the mock papi sensors backend causing trouble like this
[13:50] <Saviq> greyback, that's on startup
[13:51] <Saviq> greyback, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13823540/
[13:51] <mzanetti> gaaaah! cursor gone
[13:52] <greyback> Saviq: I suspect thread2, blocking thread1
[14:01] <Saviq> greyback, ack
[14:02] <Saviq> mterry, hey, looks like we've test failures in your branches http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13823824/
[14:03] <mterry> Saviq, huh...
[14:03] <mterry> ok am looking
[14:03] <Saviq> mterry, not necessarily your branch, maybe some interaction with the others in silo
[14:03] <Saviq> mterry, https://code.launchpad.net/~ci-train-bot/unity8/unity8-ubuntu-xenial-landing-022 is the branch
[14:04] <mterry> Saviq, th
[14:04] <mterry> x
[14:12] <Saviq> greyback, bug #1523926 fwi
[14:12] <Saviq> w
[14:38] <mterry> Saviq, yeah looks like a variable got renamed in one of the other branches.  Will change in my branch and ping you in a sec
[14:38] <Saviq> mterry, ack
[14:38] <mterry> ah.. but I need your branch not mine
[14:40] <mterry> Saviq, done.  lp:~unity-team/unity8/fix-wakelocks is updated
[14:40] <Saviq> mterry, tx
[16:26] <then4116_> Ahoy
[16:29] <then4116_> I'm trying and failing to edit a launcher. Specifically, I want VLC to start in fullscreen, and play a certain stream
[16:30] <then4116_> the following works from the shell:
[16:30] <then4116_> vlc rtsp://user:password@hostname:554/path/media.amp?resolution=1280x720\&videocodec=h264 -f
[16:30] <then4116_> but I can't seem to put it in a launcher
[17:01] <then4116_> never mind
[17:02] <dandrader> dednick, around?
[18:02] <dednick> dandrader: whats up?
[21:47] <a1fa> which file is the main unity config?
[21:54] <nicomachus> hi! do you guys do any support here?
[22:04] <a1fa> my unity config is so screwed up, i dont even get wm out of it
[22:04] <a1fa> i removed .config/unity and .config/compiz-1
[22:04] <a1fa> what else do i ened to remove
[22:31] <a1fa> dconf --reset org/compiz worked
[22:31] <a1fa> i had some gtk 3.0 css files as left overs


[01:14] <qwebirc7690> hello,  I am new to Linux and am trying to get a hauppauge wintv-pvr-500 tuner card set up
[01:16] <qwebirc7690> I have installed mythbuntu
[01:27] <qwebirc7690> !help
[01:27] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[02:00] <ak74> I am new to Linux and Mythtv.  I have installed mythbuntu and need help with hauppauge wintv-pvr-500
[11:07] <tasankovasa> greetings all...
[11:08] <tasankovasa> some relatively noobie questions have arisen, anyone have an ear to borrow?
[19:29] <Bezzeb> Hi Mythbuntu gurus, I have a question related to how to find a good software developer with experience developing what could in essence be a Mythbuntu media appliance.  My company is currently designing what is in essence a set top box which plays a custom streaming video feed.  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance for your time, Zeb
[19:30] <st8ofmi9d> I'm trying to get diskless boot to work with Mythbuntu 9.04. I got started but as far as I get in the boot process is the Ubuntu circle logo. How do I find out what it's handing up on? I posted more details in the forums a couple of days ago but no response yet: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1462776
[19:30] <Zinn> [ubuntuforums.org] Network book/Diskless boot Mythbuntu - Ubuntu Forums
[20:03] <tgm4883> Bezzeb, what are you trying to do?
[20:06] <Bezzeb> Hey tgm4883, we have a video streaming product that is currently web based and we are currently developing an appliance.  We have some good programmers on the team, but none of them have experience with the nuances involved with developing a sealed appliance.
[20:07] <tgm4883> hmm
[20:07] <Bezzeb> So we just let our linux admin member of the team.  We learned from him that we don't know enough about the tricks required to seal up an appliance, develop update systems, and get everything tidy for mass production.
[20:08] <Bezzeb> And I'm here at Mythbuntu as it's our leading OS/Media rendering platform which we are considering.
[20:08] <Bezzeb> :)
[20:10] <tgm4883> Bezzeb, I see
[20:11] <Bezzeb> Indeed - any tip to find a guy with "the right stuff" to help us get this product (esentially an IPTV set top box)
[20:12] <Bezzeb> would be much appreciated.
[20:30] <tgm4883> Bezzeb, it sounds like you are looking for some backend distribution management then?
[20:47] <Bezzeb> Not sure what you mean by backend distribution, can you clarify?  Our video streaming product is currently online with paid customers.  We now need to package this into a compact stable appliance which to end users is just a magical set top box.  As we have learned, there are some nuances to this which we are trying to branch out and find someone with direct experience to help solve.
[20:49] <tgm4883> And you want the boxes to automatically update then?
[20:49] <Bezzeb> Achieving a compact OS with just the libraries we need, ensuring stability, understanding the trade-offs of which system update method to use, and being familiar with sealing the system up to avoid end user tampering and confine them to our developed GUI environment (think tivo).
[20:49] <tgm4883> I see
[20:49] <tgm4883> and you are using mythtv for this?
[20:49] <Bezzeb> Well from the backend we need to be able to manage updates yes.  We've been considering full image updates to avoid some of the reliability and testing challenges of incrementals.
[20:51] <Bezzeb> We currently only have a working backend and middle ware "brain" which is hardware independant but does all the backend secure login and video stream acquisition stuff.  Our software model has a hardware layer interface which is currently unwritten for lack of experienced guidance.
[20:51] <Bezzeb> Myth TV is a promising candidate for rendering the video and developing a GUI in.
[20:57] <Bezzeb> In the perfect world - I'd be able to hire one of the MythTV developers who helped package the Mythbuntu live CD distribution...  I suspect that our challenges which have been killing us just would not be difficult to solve to someone with the right background....
[21:00] <Bezzeb> I'm very sorry to do this but I must leave my computer until tomorrow, but I'll leave my IRC running and check the history in the AM.  Thanks much for your time tgm4883!   If anybody on this channel can point me in the right direction to hire the right guy - I'd be eternally grateful!  Think Boxee - or Tivo, this is what we are building.
[21:00] <Bezzeb> afk
[22:37] <st8ofmi9d> I figured out what I was doing wrong with the diskless boot. Now I'm running but when I go to start MythTV frontend I see the main screen and then it exits. I don't see any errors on the screen.
[23:03] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, logs?
[23:06] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: Where do I find thouse? sorry I'm a newbie.
[23:07] <tgm4883> !logs | st8ofmi9d
[23:07] <Zinn> st8ofmi9d: MythTV logs are stored in /var/log/mythtv/   You can use mythbuntu-log-grabber from the Applications menu to automatically post the most relevant logs to our pastebin.
[23:07] <tgm4883> hmm
[23:07] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, actually, can you pastebin /var/log/mythtv/mythfrontend.log
[23:07] <tgm4883> !pastebin
[23:07] <Zinn> when pasting more than 5 lines of data please use http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com so you don't flood the channel.  Then please post the link in the channel.
[23:08] <st8ofmi9d> type
[23:08] <st8ofmi9d> sorry
[23:10] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: no mythfrontend.log file. Just a jamu.log
[23:10] <tgm4883> ok
[23:10] <tgm4883> then open up a terminal and start mythfrontend from there
[23:11] <tgm4883> that should give you some errors
[23:11] <tgm4883> I would pastebin everything after you start mythfrontend
[23:21] <st8ofmi9d> I don't have a browser on the diskless machine. I get an error unable to run with invalid time settings
[23:26] <st8ofmi9d> It says that "Current time on the master time
[23:27] <st8ofmi9d> It says that "Current time on the master backend differs from the time on this system." So I'll try to asjust tahat
[23:28] <st8ofmi9d> I just don't know where
[23:34] <st8ofmi9d> I figured it out. I needed to do date and tzselect
[23:34] <st8ofmi9d> Thank you!
[23:56] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, your welcome


[02:21] <OvenWerk1> Anyone know if flowblade is any good
[13:52] <sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: no, but by the looks of it, i'd say its somewhere in between pitivi and kdenlive..
[14:38] <OvenWerk1> Has anyone else noticed that cpu governor setting in 16.04 is changed?
[14:41] <OvenWerk1> the path /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/ no longer exists.
[14:42] <sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: i have that path
[14:44] <sakrecoer> assuming that by cpu* you mean cpu0 to cpu_howevermanycores
[14:44] <sakrecoer> all my cores have the cpufreq folder inside, with a bucnh of files like "cpuinfo_cur_freq"
[14:45] <sakrecoer> oh, but maybe you mean, the governor is using something else?
[14:46] <OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: no I don't have those files at all in 16.04
[14:47] <sakrecoer> weird... i do... let me check on my other 16.04 machine.
[14:48] <sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: yup, its there too
[14:51] <OvenWerk1> sakrecoer:  what cpus do you have?
[14:52] <OvenWerk1> cpufreq-set works, but any of the change sys/* stuf doesn't.
[14:55] <sakrecoer> cpu0-cpu7 on one machine also cpufreq and cpuidle
[14:55] <sakrecoer> on the other one i have cpu0-cpu3
[14:55] <sakrecoer>  ^OvenWerk1
[14:55] <OvenWerk1> intel?
[14:56] <sakrecoer> yes
[14:56] <OvenWerk1> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[14:56] <OvenWerk1> gives what?
[14:56] <sakrecoer> powersave
[14:57] <OvenWerk1> That at least makes sense
[14:59]  * OvenWerk1 thinks he has missed something... http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM3NDQ
[15:01] <sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: ok... why... do i have it then?
[15:30] <sakrecoer> geirdal: maybe something to use?... just a suggestion. I like what ralf did, but the resolution of the photos is realy poor.
[15:30] <sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubustu_camera.png
[15:30] <sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/ubustu_camera_outline.png
[15:32] <sakrecoer> i guess it evokes more photo than video.. but yeah...its a common tool in video these days...
[15:33] <sakrecoer> its from this: http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/77959 just replaced the branding really,
[15:34] <sakrecoer> hmm... now that i think of it, it says CC0, but probably it needs deformation for us to use... never mind those pics :D
[18:49] <OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: I must have missed part of my path
[18:51] <OvenWerk1> (or my upgrade fixed it)
[18:53] <OvenWerk1> cd


[11:18] <Unit193> bluesabre: Happen to know how to test if X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain support in libxfce4util works?
[16:28] <scootergrisen> Do people know menulibre is broke in Xubuntu 19.04?
[16:32] <brainwash> scootergrisen: if they do know, then there should be a bug report for it
[16:34] <scootergrisen> Guess its https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1825213 with unicodedecodeerror
[16:36] <brainwash> there are actually 5 reports for this bug
[16:37] <brainwash> and a pending fix
[16:37] <scootergrisen> Clearly we need number 6
[16:38] <brainwash> bluesabre is the menulibre maintainer
[16:40] <scootergrisen> ok
[16:40] <brainwash> now he should be informed :)
[16:49] <scootergrisen> But is he well informed?
[16:49] <scootergrisen> That is the question
[22:55] <bluesabre> I'm informed now
[22:55] <Unit193> \o/
[23:00] <bluesabre> hi Unit193
[23:03] <Unit193> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/libxfce4util/compare/50b88c44...f39c9d06 so we're still good with libxfce4util.
[23:05] <bluesabre> Unit193: that's great, way to go!