[06:23] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:12] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:15] <MooDoo> morning morning
[07:18] <dwatkins> mornin
[07:18] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo and MartijnVdS
[07:28] <Rosway> Good morning. A question.  I have 10 computers with ubuntu YLMF installed. Can I connect a printer to one station and share it. The computers are all connected to a switch? Thanks
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> YLMF?
[07:29] <MartijnVdS> Rosway: it should be possible to share a printer by opening the printer config screen (top right -> "gear" icon -> system settings -> printer)
[07:29] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: start os a chinese linux distro
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> so it's not ubuntu?
[07:30] <MooDoo> it's an ubuntu variant
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> hm, printer sharing isn't in there for me.
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> Why isn't printer sharing available in system-config-printer?
[07:30] <MooDoo> well version up to 3 is ubuntu
[07:31] <Rosway> Yes it is based on the Ubuntu platform
[07:31] <MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StartOS
[07:31] <MooDoo> the latest version isn't it's now based on xiange linux
[07:34] <Rosway> Forgive me am a total novice with this os
[07:35] <Rosway> Would it also be possible to connect 2 printer to the 1 PC and share both?
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> Rosway: it is possible, but the graphical tool doesn't seem to have an option for it
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> Rosway: let me check
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> Rosway: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkPrintingWithUbuntu#Ubuntu_print_server
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> Rosway: that page has all the answers you're looking for
[07:40] <Rosway> Thank you MartijnVds. Will have a look at it.
[09:14] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Lighthouse Day! :-D
[09:19] <shauno> you couldn't find a non-american one?  trinity house deserve some love too :)
[09:20] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[09:20] <JamesTait> shauno, I was going to go for Heyerdahl day, but thought that might actually be a thing.
[09:20] <JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
[09:23] <BeiGunkZoya> happy diarrhea day!!!
[09:23] <MooDoo> ewwwwwwww
[09:24] <BeiGunkZoya> oh yes!
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> aww yiss
[09:41] <MooDoo> ?
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> just fixing his phonetic spelling :P
[09:42] <MooDoo> shouldn't it me ar yeah then :)
[09:48] <BeiGunkZoya> should?
[09:48] <BeiGunkZoya> or not to should?
[09:57] <mgdm> shauno: sadly the Northern Lighthouse Board don't have quite so catchy an address
[10:17] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:18] <MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
[10:20] <neuro> flargen blargen
[10:21] <MooDoo> bless you
[10:21] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:21] <MooDoo> neuro: sorry got confused as you missed out yargen ;)
[10:21] <neuro> i really didn't
[10:21] <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
[10:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: does this mean you've started the steak countdown?
[10:24] <bigcalm> davmor2: heh. Last couple of steaks were not great. Not sure what I'll have tonight
[10:41] <neuro> i have found the world's greatest musical instrument
[10:41] <neuro> https://soundcloud.com/evilneuro/cherry-7up-ringpull/s-fKhNJ
[10:43] <dwatkins> it's a little monotonic
[10:50] <neuro> guten morgen herr aq
[10:52] <DJones> Heh, this is an interesting idea for a laptop, solar powered, Ubuntu and submersible http://solaptop.com/en/products/laptops/ Not sure how the $400 price compares with other Atom machines
[10:53] <ubcqtml> but you can save money on spare battery
[10:55] <DJones> Probably not going to be marketed in the UK anyway, solar power would probably be pretty useless for 364 days of the year
[10:58] <shauno> that, and I never open the curtains
[10:59] <brobostigon> question, what are normal post delivery times ?
[11:00] <DJones> Antime between about 7am and 3:30pm
[11:00] <brobostigon> wow, ok.
[13:11] <davmor2> brobostigon: depends, Normally before noon for royal mail(note during holiday season this is all to pot as one posty covers for another), for parcel delivery  from 8:00 till 20:00 is the normal
[13:12] <brobostigon> davmor2: thank you,
[13:15] <Azelphur> can anyone tell me why */1 * * * * source /home/django/azelphur.com-v/bin/activate && python /home/django/azelphur.com/azelphur/manage.py gameserverquery doesn't work in cron?
[13:16] <Azelphur> I'm guessing it's something to do with the source, but I have no idea what I'd do to fix it
[13:17] <shauno> I'd suspect the same, since source is a bash built-in, not a regular command
[13:18] <shauno> personally, I'd be very tempted to just stuff it all in a wrapper, so cron just calls the wrapper, and you can use allt he bashisms you like within
[13:19] <directhex> yes, shauno is correct on both counts
[13:19] <Azelphur> yea, I'll try that
[13:21] <Azelphur> yea, works if I throw it all in a wrapper, ty :)
[13:29] <Azelphur> in other news, is there an easy way to get ipv6 working yet?
[13:29] <Azelphur> last I looked you had to read a small book to get it alive
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I just get it from my ISP
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and hosts auto-configure
[13:29] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: cool, I don't think there are many ISPs that support it yet here, which is a shame :(
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: anyway, if you want a tunnel, that's 1 package (radvd) and a bit of configuration in /etc/network/interfaces
[13:29] <Azelphur> I have an option to break contract with TalkTalk though
[13:30] <Azelphur> so, I /could/ switch to one that does support it
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=native
[13:31] <Azelphur> yea I just noticed, I don't think any of those will do me really
[13:31] <Azelphur> I know A&A is ridiculously expensive
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you could get a tunnel from sixxs, it's really just a few lines of /etc/network/interfaces -- and they generate them for you  :)
[13:32] <Azelphur> cool
[13:32] <Azelphur> I'll probably look into that if I can't get an ISP that supports it
[13:32] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: is that list likely to be complete?
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: unknown
[13:34] <brobostigon> i have used aiccu to do the config for me before.
[13:35] <Azelphur> A&A is ridiculously priced unless you want 50GB/mo, Bogons has no fibre, clarane---wait wtf
[13:35] <Azelphur> 300mbit downstream?!?
[13:36] <Azelphur> claranet seems cool for when I get rich ;)
[13:38] <neuro> Azelphur: i've complained to rev k a few times about their seemingly random pricing model for the non home::1 packages
[13:38] <Azelphur> hehe
[13:38] <neuro> would love to use a&a but 30 quid a month each for unlimited 80/20 from sky and bt is just too tempting to refuse
[13:39] <neuro> i can live with dynamic native ipv4 and tunnelled ipv6
[13:39] <neuro> for now, at least
[13:39] <Azelphur> yna
[13:39] <Azelphur> neuro: that's near enough my thinking, A&A want like £140+ for me
[13:39] <Azelphur> and that's if I skimp on the bandwidth
[13:40] <neuro> i'd be nearly 400 quid
[13:41]  * Seeker` wishes he could get proepr ipv6
[13:41] <Azelphur> yea I probably would be too, I skimped on the daytime net
[13:41] <Azelphur> claranet certainly looks interesting, just prohibitively expensive
[13:41] <Azelphur> they are about £55
[13:42] <shauno> I haven't had any issues tunnelling.  it was bumpy a couple of years ago, but all happy now
[13:42] <Azelphur> LOL lets all get IDNet
[13:42] <Azelphur> only £1094/mo
[13:42] <neuro> clara aren't really a consumer provider anymore
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> you can come to .nl, we have XS4ALL ;)
[13:42] <neuro> smeg off, dutchy :)
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> also, we have 100/100 fibre
[13:42] <Azelphur> xD
[13:43] <neuro> Azelphur: have you ever quoted up metro ethernet off a&a for a laugh?
[13:43] <Azelphur> nope
[13:43] <neuro> 1Gbps symmetric
[13:43] <neuro> £18.3K install
[13:43] <neuro> £17.8K monthly
[13:43] <brobostigon> smeg off, lol.
[13:43] <neuro> ex VAT :)
[13:45] <Azelphur> neuro: http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Broadband-Setup-Connection-WiFi/IPv6/m-p/579336/highlight/true#M23623
[13:45] <Azelphur> this post seems to indicate sky supports ipv6 just no support at the DNS level?
[13:45] <neuro> and for additional lulz, i quoted up 1Gbps WEES between my folks and me
[13:45] <neuro> £5K install, £944/mo
[13:45] <neuro> basically lanex over fibre
[13:46] <Azelphur> lol
[13:46] <shauno> ooh, my isp have finally updated their stance on ipv6.  last month they were still claiming they were on-track for a 2012 rollout.  they've finally changed it to 2014.
[13:46] <Azelphur> haha
[13:46] <Azelphur> shauno: are you on sky?
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: oh wow.. several ISPs have been saying they'd be rolling out "this year" for the past 3 years :)
[13:46] <shauno> nah, chorus/upc Ireland
[13:46] <neuro> Azelphur: they're not saying ipv6 is delivered to CPE
[13:46] <neuro> they're saying they have v6 running in their core
[13:47] <shauno> MartijnVdS: yeah, that I'm used to.  but I did find "last year" to be betterer :)
[13:47] <Azelphur> neuro: he says he can access ipv6 websites by entering the Ipv6 address?
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> that would mean Sky break DNS
[13:47] <neuro> hmmm
[13:47] <neuro> no
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> oh maybe teredo?
[13:48] <neuro> ding
[13:48] <neuro> that'll be it
[13:48] <neuro> bloody microsoft
[13:48] <Azelphur> neuro: I assume tunneling is basically proxy, which means slow
[13:49] <neuro> not really
[13:49] <neuro> i don't get max line speed, but i can push 10-15 Mbps at times
[13:49] <neuro> ping speeds are identical
[13:49] <neuro> since i'm tunnelling via london, and all my egress traffic ends up going via london anyway
[13:50] <neuro> melbourne:~ neuro$ ping -c1 saopaulo | tail -1
[13:50] <neuro> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 18.204/18.204/18.204/0.000 ms
[13:50] <neuro> melbourne:~ neuro$ ping6 -c1 saopaulo | tail -1
[13:50] <neuro> round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 18.135/18.135/18.135/0.000 ms
[13:50] <Azelphur> I see, not too bad I suppose
[13:51] <neuro> that's from my macbook to a host in london
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> Home to "google.com": 64 bytes from we-in-x71.1e100.net: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=8.92 ms
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> Home to bigv.io: 64 bytes from 2001:41c8:51:224:feff:ff:fe00:c9e: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=18.6 ms
[13:52] <neuro> yeah but your country is like tiny
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but we're further from the US than you are
[13:52] <neuro> i have to endure 6-8 ms light speed time plus broadband overheads
[13:52] <neuro> MartijnVdS: so? :)
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> neuro: what's a host in the US with IPv6, so we can compare? :)
[13:53] <neuro> ooh
[13:53] <neuro> let's looksee
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> 64 bytes from cav6tf.org: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=149 ms
[13:53] <neuro> whaaaat
[13:53] <neuro> no way is that hosted in .ca.us
[13:54] <neuro> hmm, seems it is
[13:54] <neuro> lon>ny>chicago>denver>san jose
[13:55] <neuro> melbourne:~ neuro$ ping -c1 cav6tf.org | tail -1
[13:55] <neuro> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 156.965/156.965/156.965/0.000 ms
[13:55] <neuro> melbourne:~ neuro$ ping6 -c1 cav6tf.org | tail -1
[13:55] <neuro> round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 154.489/154.489/154.489/0.000 ms
[13:55] <neuro> seems ping speeds have dipped a bit in the last few years
[13:55] <neuro> i was used to seeing ~180
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> neuro: c increased
[13:55] <neuro> lol
[13:55] <neuro> HAWKING!!! *shakes fist*
[13:56] <neuro> actually, what's your trace, since you seem to get faster pings than me
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> once it exists my ISP, it goes to ams, lon, nyc, chi, den, sjc, fmt on he.net
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> exits*
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> (Fremont?)
[13:57] <shauno> most likely, that's HE's largest footprint in cali
[13:57] <neuro> http://pastebin.com/Lk0VtADT
[13:58] <neuro> so how the hell ... oh right, your ping to he is lower than mine
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> http://pastebin.com/D757vCJi
[13:59] <neuro> i seem to be going a different route from you as well
[13:59] <neuro> i wonder what mci3 is
[13:59] <neuro> something between il and co
[14:00] <neuro> ah
[14:00] <neuro> it's IATA codes
[14:00] <neuro> MCI = Kansas City
[14:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: you like a bit of dubstep right how about mixing it up a little with classical violinism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI
[14:00] <neuro> wub wub wub wub wub
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> violin + dubstep.. police sirens?
[14:01] <Azelphur> Lindsey Stirling \o/
[14:01] <neuro> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3autLpnMs
[14:02] <davmor2> Azelphur: you'll love these guys then http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5X8wA2pn9sbD765c-rmkMg
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: hint: they're not guys
[14:03] <Azelphur> lol
[14:03] <neuro> when is the drop?
[14:03] <Azelphur> davmor2: at a glace, not particularly o.O
[14:03] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Meh semantics I use the word guys to mean people :P
[14:04] <davmor2> Azelphur: listen to some of it :)
[14:04] <Azelphur> I did :)
[14:05] <Azelphur> davmor2: nothing particularly wrong with it, just not amazingly interesting either
[14:05] <Azelphur> (mostly because I'm not really into that genre)
[14:07] <davmor2> Azelphur: which Genre they play most :D admittedly theirs is more chill
[14:07] <Azelphur> yea :)
[14:08] <Azelphur> I don't listen to a lot of chill music
[14:08] <bigcalm> Dave2: oh, her
[14:11] <bigcalm> oops
[14:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: oh, her
[14:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: the dubstep was too minimal
[14:12] <Dave2> HER INDEED
[14:38] <dwatkins> I've been writing German too much today; I read Dave2's comment as "Herr Indeed" like "Mr. Indeed"
[14:39] <daftykins> :)
[14:41] <Azelphur> neuro: oO, I think I've found an answer
[14:41] <neuro> to what?
[14:41] <Azelphur> neuro: a decent internet connection with ipv6 at a sane price
[14:41] <neuro> move to amsterdam?
[14:42] <Azelphur> nah, entanet has a very good offering
[14:42] <neuro> ooft
[14:42] <Azelphur> neuro: I know an entanet partner so he'll give me it at no profit
[14:43] <Azelphur> and, they have ipv6 unlimited FTTC
[14:43] <Azelphur> all the things \o/
[14:43] <neuro> who
[14:43] <Azelphur> neuro: my dad xD
[14:43] <neuro> if you don't mind me asking
[14:43] <neuro> haha lol
[14:43] <Azelphur> I told him he should start selling that shit pronto
[14:44] <Azelphur> because everybody wants it.
[14:44] <daftykins> :o
[14:44] <neuro> if my dad was an entanet reseller, he'd have been my first port of call before looking anywhere else ;)
[14:44] <Azelphur> I think the majority of people in this channel would be happy paying £50/mo for unlimited no FUP IPv6 enabled 80/20 no?
[14:44] <daftykins> my router's capable of IPv6 yet my ISP is not ¬_¬
[14:44] <daftykins> yesh
[14:44] <directhex> my router's a BT homehub, no idea if it's v6-aware
[14:44] <Azelphur> neuro: yea, he was my first port of call, I was just shopping around while I waited for him to reply
[14:45] <neuro> directhex: it's not, yet
[14:45] <neuro> bt are planning to roll out v6 this year, allegedly
[14:45] <directhex> Azelphur, actually that's a lot, i pay a lot less for about the same thing (minus v6)
[14:45] <Azelphur> apparently talktalk have my line locked so I have to go get a neighbours number and get them to check that
[14:45] <Azelphur> but assuming all is good, they will fit me a new line and give me a real good deal ;)
[14:45] <Azelphur> directhex: that's inc line rental / vat
[14:45] <neuro> wtf?
[14:45] <Azelphur> 50/mo for everything
[14:45] <neuro> fire your number into bt's infinity checker and see what happens
[14:46] <directhex> Azelphur, still a lot
[14:46] <Azelphur> neuro: apparently that's no good
[14:46] <neuro> everyone doing fttc are just reselling openreach anyway
[14:46] <Azelphur> directhex: not really, isn't sky like 45 or something?
[14:46] <directhex> bt line rental is £15, and unlimited 76/16 infinity is £26
[14:46] <Azelphur> directhex: and then you're forced into a phone package, no?
[14:46] <directhex> sorry, 76/19
[14:46] <neuro> everyone just says 80/20 ;)
[14:47] <Azelphur> neuro: yea xD
[14:47] <neuro> in reality i get about 65-70/15-17
[14:47] <directhex> i get 73/16, give or take
[14:47] <daftykins> that tends to be how any phone-line based service operates
[14:47] <directhex> Azelphur, that includes a call package (weekend calls)
[14:47] <neuro> max downstream sync i can get is about 85 according to the openreach engineer who did my bt and sky installs
[14:47] <daftykins> Guernsey's VDSL2 services are 40/2 at the moment, my line syncs at 50/20
[14:47] <Azelphur> directhex: so that's £31 basically? not bad I guess
[14:48] <neuro> daftykins: that's the entry level bt product
[14:48] <neuro> 40/2
[14:48] <neuro> errr openreach product, i mean
[14:48] <directhex> Azelphur, £41, but yes, that's the baseline price. and bt definitely don't have a usage limit
[14:48] <daftykins> yeah we don't have BT here.
[14:48] <neuro> 40/2, then 40/20, then 80/20, then 300/something
[14:48] <directhex> Azelphur, i push about 10G a day
[14:48] <Azelphur> yea, so £9 more for ipv6
[14:48] <Azelphur> and decent customer support
[14:48] <Azelphur> I think it's a good deal.
[14:49]  * neuro is happy with what he has, unfortunately :)
[14:49] <daftykins> only 10GB :(
[14:49] <daftykins> wasted!
[14:49] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:49] <Azelphur> well as I say I'll give it a try I think
[14:49] <neuro> don't fancy doing a v6 renumbering just yet
[14:49] <neuro> yeah absolutely
[14:50] <Azelphur> Sky/BT are almost the same price, and IPv6 is starting to annoy me
[14:50] <Azelphur> and I don't like the idea of tunnelling
[14:50] <neuro> wfm
[14:50] <Azelphur> :P
[14:50] <directhex> sky is a measurably more evil company than bt
[14:50] <neuro> pff
[14:50] <directhex> given how evil bt is, this is impressive
[14:51] <daftykins> :D
[14:54] <ali1234> (15:44:29) Azelphur: I think the majority of people in this channel would be happy paying £50/mo for unlimited no FUP IPv6 enabled 80/20 no?
[14:54] <ali1234> no
[14:54] <neuro> lol
[14:54] <ali1234> i would be much happier paying £10/month for 10/2 with a 50MB limit
[14:54] <ali1234> 50GB sorry :P
[14:54] <neuro> but 10/2 isn't a real product
[14:54] <ali1234> it's what i actually get though
[14:55] <neuro> adsl2+?
[14:55] <ali1234> it's supposed to be 20/8 or something
[14:55] <ali1234> yeah, just
[14:55] <neuro> well there you go
[14:55] <daftykins> nasty
[14:55] <neuro> lowest fttc product is 40/2, and you're more likely to get close to line speed as cabs are more evenly distributed than exchanges
[14:55] <neuro> in urban areas anyway
[14:55] <ali1234> thing is i don't cae how fast it is
[14:56] <neuro> heathen
[14:56] <ali1234> i would like a bit more upload
[14:56] <ali1234> waiting hours for a 5 minute youtube video to upload is a bit annoying
[14:56] <daftykins> thankfully our ISP doesn't do FUPs at all
[14:56] <neuro> well then, fttc is your only real option
[14:56] <neuro> 40/20 can be gotten reasonably cheaply
[14:57] <daftykins> i definitely want more upload than this 40/2 :(
[14:57] <ali1234> i have no use for "unlimited"
[14:57] <ali1234> either
[14:58] <neuro> actually, sorry, i'm talking out my bum
[14:58] <neuro> 40 meg packages are usually 40/2 or 40/10
[14:58] <ali1234> i would rather pay £5/month and have always on ISDN
[14:58] <neuro> BT Infinity 1, up to 38Mbps down, up to 9.5Mbps up, 40GB usage, £15/mo plus line rental
[14:58] <ali1234> the cheaper the better really
[14:58] <neuro> isdn?
[14:58] <neuro> are you mental?
[14:59] <neuro> 128Kbps?!
[14:59] <neuro> i don't even think any ISPs offer that as a product any more
[15:00] <ali1234> in a way, they all do
[15:00] <ali1234> if you divide the FUP by 1 month
[15:00] <ali1234> you usually get a lot less than that
[15:01] <neuro> yeah but there's a difference between a throttle and a cap
[15:01] <neuro> and /me points to ISPs who offer FUPless products
[15:01] <ali1234> yes. one is very poorly defined
[15:01] <neuro> what do you mean by that?
[15:03] <ali1234> a bandwidth cap might be in the small print but more likely you won't know what it is until you hit it
[15:03] <ali1234> a throttle is known up front by both parties
[15:03] <neuro> which is why any ISP tho caps worth their salt will have a control panel where you can see your usage
[15:03] <neuro> sky and BT both do this, can't speak for others
[15:04] <neuro> and the cap has to be up front, not just in the small print; ofcom regs
[15:04] <neuro> and you'd be surprised how hard some make it to discover that you can get throttled
[15:05] <ali1234> so merely stipulating that the service is "unlimited* (*with fair usage policy)" is no longer allowed by ofcom?
[15:05] <neuro> i know a lot of people on virgin who knew nothing about their traffic management policies
[15:05] <neuro> i don't think ISPs do that any more
[15:05] <ali1234> right, they all have a download cap instead
[15:06] <neuro> unlimited with FUP usually just means "hey, we'll throttle some stuff we know can be a hog, here's what we throttle"
[15:06] <ali1234> because it means they can still advertise based on unachievable speeds that will exceed your cap within 15 minutes
[15:06] <neuro> which usually means "we throttle usenet and p2p"
[15:06] <neuro> i'm looking at BT's product list right now
[15:06] <neuro> they only offer "unlimited" products that are actually unlimited
[15:06] <neuro> all other products have stated caps in big fonts
[15:07] <ali1234> let me put it another way
[15:07] <neuro> ok :)
[15:08] <slvr> (BT used to have a ~300GB limit on their unlimited products, but that's not been around since 2011 iirc)
[15:08] <ali1234> i would rather have a dedicated ISDN line with no caps, throttling, or other hidden stuff, than 100/10 ADSL that only works when the wind blows the right way and only has enough cap to use it for 2 hours per month
[15:08] <neuro> at the risk of being pernickity
[15:08] <neuro> 100/10 is impossible over ADSL
[15:09] <ali1234> doesn't matter, i don't want it anyway
[15:09] <neuro> Infinity et al are VDSL, and pretty stable
[15:09] <daftykins> choice seems to have made available lots of crap products instead of lots of good competing ones, in England
[15:09] <shauno> upc have an odd version of Unlimited™.  They made a big fuss about dropping the caps, and then sent me a letter to tell me I'd used way more than Unlimited™ allows for.  and that if I did it again, they'd bump me onto a higher plan - that still doesn't allow for what I'd used :/
[15:09] <ali1234> daftykins: that's the reality of the free market
[15:09] <daftykins> shauno: :( was it even that much?
[15:09] <ali1234> it's always a race to the bottom
[15:10] <daftykins> my telco won't even implement products.
[15:10] <daftykins> one size fits all =/
[15:10] <daftykins> they're actually actively phoning customers to try and move them to the VDSL2+ service (40/2) from the ADSL2+ (16/0.75)
[15:10] <directhex> ali1234, you're campaigning against something that doesn't exist any more, plenty of products are both fast and uncapped, e.g. mine
[15:10] <shauno> I'm not sure what 'that much' is anymore :/  it wasn't Azelphur-scale nets though.  less than 2TB/mo
[15:11] <ali1234> i always get this response of "oh, well *my* ISP isn't capped" and then 6 months later we hear that that ISP has, in fact, had to introduce caps
[15:11] <directhex> ali1234, and on 128k ISDN, maxed out, you can download 40GB in a month. which is bt's beginner level cap.
[15:12] <shauno> it's all this darned fineprint.  mine told me they were dropping the caps, when all they did was tack a zero onto the end of it
[15:12] <ali1234> 40GB just happens to around what i download in a month
[15:12] <neuro> and if you're downloading so much that you blow your cap in 2 hours, just get an unlimited product
[15:12] <directhex> ali1234, i download about 250GB a month
[15:12] <shauno> but at the same time, they moved me to 150mbit line.  so adding a zero to the transit didn't go so far
[15:13] <neuro> if i had to sit and worry every month about how much i had downloaded or uploaded, i'd go mad
[15:13] <neuro> which is partly why i use my mobile so little when i'm out and about
[15:13] <neuro> once i'm on three all you can eat, i won't have to worry about that any more
[15:14] <neuro> it's peace of mind that i'm more interested in
[15:14] <neuro> and for 90 quid a month, i have peace of mind :)
[15:15] <neuro> (90ish)
[15:15] <directhex> Your allowance usage from 01 Aug to 06 Aug
[15:15] <directhex> Your allowance will reset on 01 Sep
[15:15] <directhex> Your usage for this month is 82.29 GB
[15:15] <directhex>  69.62 GB downloaded
[15:15] <directhex>  12.67 GB uploaded
[15:15] <directhex> How does this compare
[15:15] <directhex> Your average monthly usage is
[15:15] <directhex> 248.83 GB
[15:15] <directhex>  You have an unlimited product and will never be charged for additional usage
[15:15] <neuro> ooh, never thought to check mine this month
[15:15] <neuro> sky tell me nothing, they just say "you have unlimited usage, don't worry about it" :)
[15:16] <directhex> bt still measure it. was surprised by how big the number is
[15:16] <neuro> Your average monthly usage is
[15:16] <neuro> 1020.03 GB
[15:16] <neuro> 61 down, 22 up so far this month
[15:17] <neuro> ah, here it is
[15:17] <neuro> Your Broadband Usage
[15:17] <neuro> You are a Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro customer.
[15:17] <neuro> The package you are on is truly unlimited, so you needn't worry about usage allowances.
[15:26] <daftykins> anyone ever been to much black tie stuff?
[15:26] <Azelphur> ali1234: It's funny how long it takes to upload stuff without a decent connection
[15:26] <daftykins> a friend of mine was asking what i thought of a dress but the more i ponder on it the more i think perhaps legs should be covered more in black tie 0o
[15:27] <Azelphur> I can do really cool stuff like taking an 8mp photo, uploads to dropbox, downloads to my PC, in seconds, gonna take a photo right now (note the timestamp) :P
[15:27] <neuro> go go gadget dropbox!
[15:28] <Azelphur> annnnnd done, it's on my PC.
[15:28] <Azelphur> apparently the little popup didn't come up, so it was up much earlier
[15:28] <Azelphur> where'd the little popup go? :<
[15:28] <neuro> it's had enough of your shenanigans
[15:28] <daftykins> i used to be really anal about the methodology of my computer-based actions, like i wouldn't use something like that because uploading and downloading over the same connection rather than a local transfer seemed wasteful
[15:28] <daftykins> of course i know how infinitely easier than cable fetching it is :D
[15:29] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:29] <daftykins> i still cringe at multi-megabyte attachments on clients' email too
[15:29] <daftykins> especially when it's done with 'sensitive' financial info
[15:29] <Azelphur> if I take a photo it's usually because I want to share it, so uploading it on capture is logical imo :)
[15:29] <daftykins> because NOBODY can intercept your email whizzing around
[15:30] <neuro> iCloud Photo Stream for the win
[15:30] <daftykins> yeah it's just that going out to come back in part
[15:31]  * neuro has just put a new 12 months contract on his bt broadband
[15:32] <Azelphur> my broadband will have no contract
[15:32] <Azelphur> (muhahahaha)
[15:32] <neuro> bt sport :P
[15:32] <neuro> ha, they've just called my landline to tell me it will be activated soon
[15:32] <neuro> and emailed me
[15:32] <neuro> twice
[15:35] <neuro> ew, silverlight :P
[15:36] <davmor2> neuro: yeap peoples way of dropping flash with encryption is to use silverlight with encryption instead even though it means it won't work on anything that isn't windows D'oh
[15:36] <neuro> well, mac
[15:37] <davmor2> neuro: I didn't think mac supported it, or is it just ios?
[15:38] <neuro> ios, no; mac, yes
[15:39] <davmor2> neuro: ah there you go then.  So just linux and tablet/phone users that can't use it then D'oh
[15:39] <neuro> can't use what? :)
[15:39] <neuro> bt sport has its own app
[15:39] <davmor2> neuro: silverlight
[15:39] <neuro> yeah but content providers use different methods to deliver to tablets
[15:40] <neuro> since flash isn't a guarantee, and silverlight is a non starter
[15:43] <neuro> oh no
[15:43] <neuro> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/newscribbler/cinefex-classic-collection
[15:43] <neuro> my visa card just screamed out in horror
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> neuro: $2250?
[15:44] <neuro> na, $285
[15:44] <neuro> about £185 quid
[15:44] <neuro> (he said redundantly)
[15:51] <neuro> wow, when the app goes on sale in january to the public, it'll cost $499 for the whole collection
[15:51] <neuro> or individual issues for $3.99
[15:51] <neuro> err, $4.99
[16:24]  * dwatkins orders a Pebble watch at last
[17:24] <daftykins> anyone seen the case where ubiquity doesn't see any partitions on a disk where there are many?
[17:27] <directhex> does parted see them?
[17:30] <daftykins> fdisk does
[17:30] <directhex> so MBR on BIOS
[17:31] <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5959601/
[17:31] <daftykins> ja
[17:31] <daftykins> apparently he's got XP, 7, backtrack and something else
[17:31] <directhex> er, that's a pretty f...racked partition table
[17:32] <davmor2> daftykins: has he filled all four main partitions?
[17:32] <directhex> primary after extended, which overlaps. urgh
[17:32] <directhex> amazed this works at all for anything
[17:32] <daftykins> ubiquity from 12.04.2 just shows the disk as empty :D
[17:32] <daftykins> heh i wonder if 7's installer did that
[17:33] <directhex> i doubt it, windows has a pretty good idea of what an mbr table should look like
[17:33] <directhex> and it's not... THAT
[17:33] <daftykins> :D
[17:33] <daftykins> multi-boot is so masochistic at the best of times
[17:33] <directhex> if i were ubiquity i'd just throw an assert & crash
[17:33] <directhex> asser (is_not_batpoop_insane);
[17:34] <daftykins> XD
[17:34] <directhex> seriously though, this ain't valid on any planet. i'd be getting a second disk and trying my best to rescue it one partition at a time into something resembling reality
[17:35] <daftykins> is it sda3 that's the wonky part? i'm not really used to seeing this many in these terms
[17:44] <directhex> daftykins, so, MBR supports four sequentially numbered partitions - in linux terms, sdX1, sdX2, sdX3 and sdX4
[17:44] <daftykins> four primary, yep?
[17:45] <daftykins> max
[17:45] <directhex> it is important that the partititons not overlap, and their start/end points are sequential, i.e. the last sector of sdX2 must be before the first of sdX3
[17:45] <directhex> yeah, "primary" - the term came about due to a method for going past the limit. one of your primary partitions can be a sort of mini partition container itself, termed "secondary" - it must be the last primary partition you use
[17:46] <directhex> i.e. if sdX2 is secondary, sdX3 and sdX4 cannot be used
[17:46] <daftykins> *nod*
[17:46] <directhex> this is partly due to the overlapping partitions question, but also the sequential ordering question
[17:46] <daftykins> so the max would be primary, primary, primary, extended --> logicals
[17:46] <directhex> within your secondary, partitions are sequentially ordered from sdX5
[17:46] <directhex> yes, precisely
[17:46] <daftykins> mm-hmm
[17:46] <daftykins> i didn't notice the numbering was so shot
[17:47] <directhex> sd sdX5 onwards are logical partitions
[17:47] <daftykins> sda2 ending on 312... then sda3 starting 132... how!?
[17:47] <directhex> now, in your example, sda3 is a primary, whose start and endpoints are in the middle of sda2 - between sda6 and sda7
[17:48] <daftykins> i follow you now - thanks
[17:49] <daftykins> i tried to convey this to the others looking at this guy's issue, they just went 'but a primary can't be after an extended, it'll be a logical!'
[17:49] <daftykins> hah, yes, in the sane world perhaps
[17:49] <directhex> it is, of course, impossible for a partition table to look like this, unless it's been exposed to a lot of crystal meth
[17:49] <daftykins> i detect the potential for some nasty resizing apps
[17:49] <directhex> i can't begin to imagine how to unravel this without a second drive
[17:50] <daftykins> hopefully he's got no important data on any of the many OSs - HAHAHAHA unlikely :|
[17:52] <ali1234> none of those partitions actually over lap
[17:53] <ali1234> there is a primary *inside* the extended, but the space it covers is not assigned to any logical partition
[17:53] <daftykins> would that be enough to break ubiquity though? seeing as it sees nothing
[17:53] <ali1234> sure
[17:54] <ali1234> it's a highly unusual layout, certainly out of spec
[17:54] <Azelphur> popey: do you do full drive snapshots with rsnapshot? if so can you paste me your rsnapshot line with the excludes? :)
[17:54] <ali1234> if it works, it's by fluke
[17:54] <directhex> [18:32]<directhex> amazed this works at all for anything
[17:55] <ali1234> i'm not surprised it works in really brain dead OS that blindly follows what the partition table says without any sort of validation
[17:55] <ali1234> it's only crazy if you look at the big picture :)
[17:56] <ali1234> the simplest way to fix it btw is just to turn sda3 into a logical partition
[17:57] <ali1234> that might mess up windows though
[17:59] <daftykins> yeah he might as well start from scratch
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/1jvgn6/i_said_numberwang_to_the_pet_shop_cashier_when_my/cbioq86
[19:03] <DJones> daftykins: You're active in #u at the minute, have you had any unsolicited pm's asking you to join an irc network?
[19:03] <daftykins> no sir
[19:04] <DJones> Thanks, just checking whether somebody is a serial spammer
[19:04] <daftykins> *nod* np :)
[19:04] <daftykins> those guys coming in for days talking about 'ready to DDoS' are kinda odd
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> "Distributed DOS? I thought we got rid of DOS ages ago!"
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> "Is that like MP/M is to CP/M?"
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> trolling the trolls++
[19:46]  * neuro just placed his xbox one preorder
[19:48] <daftykins> :o
[19:48] <daftykins> brave man
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> poor man
[19:48] <daftykins> woohoo just succeeded in helping a guy install AMD drivers atop 13.04
[19:48] <daftykins> no goats were sacrificed during this ordeal
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: not on your end, maybe :P
[20:00] <daftykins> ;)
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> Argh!
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> How do I get vim to *stop* re-indenting my line when I type > or }
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> it's not "set noai", "set nosmartindent", "set nocindent" or "filetype indent off"
[20:32] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ping a ling you back ?
[20:47] <mungbean_> seahorse core dump when trying to import key :( fails at primary role
[20:48] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: I don't know, but when you find out, let me know
[20:56] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: I suspect an html syntax plugin
[21:31] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[21:34] <AlanBell> Bloomberg just put up $80,000 http://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/4303733/campaigns which is interesting
[21:35] <neuro> cool
[21:35] <neuro> shame it's barely made a dent
[21:36] <AlanBell> pocket change for them, and they will in all probability get it back in a couple of weeks, but I am very surprised they got internal permission to do that
[21:36] <neuro> currently tracking $9m off the pace
[21:37] <AlanBell> yeah, I hope there is an uptick at the end that brings it above $11M or so making it the highest ever total
[21:38] <AlanBell> part of the problem is that there is no real way to get backers to spend more and upgrade their pledge
[21:38] <neuro> don't think that's something to be proud of
[21:38] <neuro> "hey look, we raised over $11m ... and now it needs to be given back because we set our sights too high"
[21:39] <neuro> oh, and i didn't realise indiegogo takes your money up front, unlike kickstarter
[21:39] <neuro> so even if it fails, indiegogo will make shedloads off the interest they're earning while they're holding on to eight and a half million dollars
[21:39] <AlanBell> erm, I presume it does
[21:40] <diddledan> it's been divisive - neuro is of the camp that says "duck it, it's never gonna work, shouldn't even have tried"
[21:41] <neuro> the idea of test driving a phone like this, F1 style, is brilliant
[21:41] <neuro> the campaign has just been run very very oddly
[21:41] <diddledan> I'm firmly in the opposite camp
[21:42] <diddledan> better to try than not imo
[21:42] <AlanBell> interest on it would be in the region of $10,000 - but paypal will be making that
[21:43] <AlanBell> indiegogo won't take the money out of paypal, the fees to take it out and put it back in again would be large
[21:43] <neuro> diddledan: when you're asking for $32,000, fair enough if you make rookie crowdfunding mistakes
[21:43] <neuro> diddledan: when you're asking for $32,000,000, you need to run a very, very smart campaign
[21:44] <neuro> they should have spent the time with that stupid teaser on the front of ubuntu.com pimping the heck out of the phone, the campaign, answering questions, drumming up press interest, getting influential people vocal about it
[21:45] <neuro> instead it was just like "tease, tease, tease, plonk there ya go. Oh, sorry, we forgot about that. Oh, we'll try this instead. Oh, did you ... no? Really? Oops"
[21:45] <AlanBell> imho they should have done a $10,000,000 crowdfunding element, plus taken pre-orders, plus done business sales, plus taken a loan to fund development and sold them when produced
[21:46] <AlanBell> crowdfunding is not good for VAT registered organisations, buying a phone off-contract is not good for many people, buying a phone a year in advance of it existing is not good for many people
[21:46] <directhex> imho they should have realised the nexus 4 is £240
[21:46] <neuro> kinda defeats the spirit of the thing :)
[21:46] <neuro> directhex: haha totally :)
[21:47] <neuro> ok, it's not a formula 1 of phones, but still ...
[21:47] <directhex> who has £600 lying around to buy a fringe phone in potentiae?
[21:47] <neuro> s/has/had/
[21:48] <neuro> $780 now
[21:48] <AlanBell> directhex: quite a lot more people than I would have thought
[21:48] <directhex> AlanBell, yes!
[21:49] <AlanBell> I am also wondering what I can sell to Bloomberg
[21:49] <neuro> i'm thinking my tax bill
[21:51] <AlanBell> maybe I will just send Bloomberg an invoice, on the basis that I will do a project with them next year sometime, that will work
[21:55] <diddledan> I think what the arguments really seem to boil down to are those that have backed the campaign saying yey and those that found it too expensive for them saying "woe is me, it's terrible, done wrong, should be cheaper, be a hardware company now! make 3 phones at different price points! make it the formula0.5 of phones because formula 1 is too high end" etc.. etc.
[21:56] <neuro> then i must be the outlier, the grumpy old sage sat atop a windy hill, grumbling that this was an inevitable state of affairs, disappointing but saw it coming, what are you doing on my hill, bugger orf, get your own hill
[21:57] <diddledan> if it doesn't succeed I don't think that should be classed as failure because it was a bold step and one that needed doing to shake the market a bit. so what that it didn't raise 32million, if it hadn't been tried we wouldn't know that it doesn't work
[21:58] <diddledan> and I don't think a "better run campaign" would have generated any more "sales"
[22:01] <AlanBell> indeed, they have done very very well, and still are doing $100,000/day which is good money - if it was real cash sales of shipping product.
[22:02] <neuro> but my point is that $100K/day, while good under many other circumstances, is poor for a project that requires over $1m/day to succeed
[22:16] <Azelphur> AlanBell: what software do you use for your webcam stuff?
[22:20] <diddledan> don't you love knee-jerk reactions? bug 1200775
[22:28] <AlanBell> Azelphur: I hacked some stuff together to poke at the standard firmware
[22:29] <AlanBell> there is a web service to tell it to go up/down/left/right and stop, and I have some python that tells it to start moving, then stop after a specific time, so I can get it to go a predictable distance
[22:30] <Azelphur> I see :)
[22:31] <Azelphur> AlanBell: you can have a peek at mine if you like, http://home.azelphur.com/ user/pass is anonymous :)
[22:31] <daftykins> Azelphur: are you going to make XBMC auto-rate a film/TV ep based on your facial expressions throughout? ;)
[22:34] <Azelphur> spinny spinny
[22:34] <Azelphur> daftykins: haha
[22:34] <diddledan> wtf did I do?!
[22:34] <diddledan> :-p
[22:34] <daftykins> i best patent that before the xbox one does it
[22:34] <Azelphur> diddledan: span it around I guess? :P
[22:34] <Azelphur> spin*
[22:34] <diddledan> lol
[22:34] <diddledan> I pushed the H in the middle of the D-pad
[22:34] <Azelphur> there's a more sensible angle
[22:35] <Azelphur> diddledan: ah, H is calibrate, it spins around and finds the limits
[22:35] <diddledan> aah
[22:35] <diddledan> nice monitor setup
[22:35] <Azelphur> ty
[22:35] <Azelphur> there's another one there
[22:35] <Azelphur> :)
[22:36] <diddledan> I really need to reorganise my desktop setup
[22:36] <diddledan> need to plop "teh beast" down on the floor to make room
[22:37] <daftykins> hah so many people call their computers that, shocking
[22:37] <Azelphur> diddledan: when it's daytime I plan to set this up properly, will point it out the window
[22:37] <Azelphur> I'm right on the seafront here
[22:37] <Azelphur> so should make for fun :)
[22:37] <diddledan> daftykins: I refer to it's power-hungryness rather than it's capability :-p
[22:37] <daftykins> ;)
[22:38] <diddledan> and noisyness
[22:38] <shauno> heh, the 'beast' here is an old crt monitor I can't figure out how to get rid of
[22:38] <diddledan> god it's noisy
[22:38] <diddledan> still, not as bad as my proliant server units from circa 1998
[22:38] <diddledan> shauno: ebay
[22:39] <shauno> I meant more on the scale that it weighs more than I do, and I don't have a car
[22:39] <Azelphur> someones found my QR code
[22:40] <Azelphur> xD
[22:40] <daftykins> 0o
[22:40] <daftykins> where is it?
[22:40] <Azelphur> daftykins: on the IP camera? :P
[22:40] <daftykins> oh as in they're moving about, ok
[22:40] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:40] <daftykins> i was gonna finally use that for a clients where they teach
[22:40] <Azelphur> tis just my wifi access, it's got NFC on it too
[22:40] <daftykins> but they decided they don't want 'students' using their tubes
[22:41] <daftykins> yarr i remember when you made it :)
[22:41] <Azelphur> lol
[22:41] <Azelphur> indeed :)
[22:41] <Azelphur> it's handy, I keep it on my desk.
[22:41] <daftykins> i'd share with mates that come over more but i prefer not to have their dirty gearon my network ;)
[22:41] <Azelphur> daftykins: haha, well I'm on Linux at the end of the day
[22:41] <Azelphur> not much they can do
[22:41] <daftykins> plus these days i find it ever challenging to keep friends attention rather than them be glancing at their phones every few minutes ¬_¬ terrible manners
[22:42] <Azelphur> lol
[23:04] <AlanBell> Azelphur: nice, slightly different to my firmware, and higher resolution
[23:04] <Azelphur> yea, the firmware is much nicer
[23:04] <Azelphur> although it seems to be suffering from the friendly DDoS effect atm and not responding
[23:04] <Azelphur> guess it's not up to much in the serving lots of people side of things
[23:05] <AlanBell> looks like yours calls param.cgi or something
[23:06] <Azelphur> yea, it has a simple API, I messed around telling it to turn left and right using API calls
[23:06] <Azelphur> AlanBell: is it responding for you?
[23:06] <AlanBell> not now
[23:06] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:07] <AlanBell> what mine lacks is a move to x,y call
[23:07] <Azelphur> yea mine doesn't have one either
[23:07] <AlanBell> or a move +40,-70 relative call
[23:07] <AlanBell> there is just start moving, and stop
[23:08] <Azelphur> oh, mine has that
[23:08] <Azelphur> mine moves in steps, so you tell it, take a step left, take a step right
[23:08] <AlanBell> oh, nice
[23:09] <Azelphur> lets see if I can get this thing to talk to ustream :)
[23:18] <diddledan> I now have a semi-organised desk
[23:19] <diddledan> and no room by my feet :-p
[23:25] <Azelphur> AlanBell: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur hahahaha, sort of works
[23:25] <Azelphur> in a *zoom*...now we'll wait for a bit, sort of way.
[23:26] <Azelphur> guess it wants a different frame rate :)
[23:48] <Azelphur> maybe someone has an idea on how I might fix the above url ^ ?
[23:56] <neuro> what's wrong with it?
[23:56] <Azelphur> neuro: look at the stopwatch, it's counting in seconds.
[23:56] <Azelphur> *zoom* stop...*zoom* stop... xD
[23:57] <neuro> is your upstream screwed?
[23:57] <Azelphur> neuro: nope
[23:57] <Azelphur> neuro: and even if it was, why would it upload superfast, stop, superfast, stop.
[23:58] <neuro> i don't know what's happening with the upload, but the stream is buffer, catchup, buffer, catchup
[23:58] <Azelphur> tis only done 1000kbit/sec up, speedtest.net puts me at having 14 (while running the camera)
[23:58] <neuro> no idea what you're using for streaming either
[23:58] <Azelphur> so, I have over 15x the required upload
[23:58] <Azelphur> ffmpeg
[23:59] <neuro> so it's probably an ffmpeg problem :)
[23:59] <Azelphur> neuro: indeed, here's the ffmpeg stuff http://pastebin.com/rXsys954
[23:59] <neuro> holy crap