[03:17] <TuxHub> Hey everyone I am launching a Linux only software index website that is free to use (no ads), I am looking for anyone who would like their software listed on my site the rules are simple: No emulated applications, No closed source applications, No applications that rely on paid/proprietary dependencies that are not included. To submit your software
[03:17] <TuxHub> you just need to private message me on IRC with one link to your project, this must be the main link that displays all of the information about your software such as a homepage or git repository. Thank you!
[04:24] <vincejv> hello sarnold sorry for the late reply was a bit busy, the error was not on my local machine but across several github actions runner, i was not seeing any incidents on Github at that time, when the ppa launchpad incident was up, I got the error "Could not connect to archive.ubuntu.com:80 (<IP_ADDRESS>), connection timed out", then after it was
[04:24] <vincejv> cleared on the status page, ig to that mirror sync error..
[21:29] <hart> Had hoped to report a bug, but can't get logged into launchpad ("Oops!Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.")
[21:29] <hart> The bug I was trying to report is: An update in the last week broke device support (e.g. for Yubikeys) for Chromium (and probably others) in 22.04 LTS. The 'snap-device-helper' rules in /etc/udev/rules/70-snap.*.rules were updated from a 4-argument form to a 1-argument form. However, the current 'snapd' package on 22.04 is still at a version (2.61.3) that only supports/recognizes the 4-argument form, so invocations of the helper fail with "hidraw1: Process
[21:29] <hart> '/usr/lib/snapd/snap-device-helper snap_chromium_chromium' failed with exit code 1.". The snap-device-helper argument format was changed by git commit "904b283191 cmd/snap-device-helper: do not read sysfs directly"


[02:50] <stackedagainst> evening hggdh :)
[02:51] <hggdh> evening stackedagainst
[02:52] <stackedagainst> oh, its me nigel btw, just another nick
[02:52] <stackedagainst> ;)
[02:52] <hggdh> ah :-)
[02:52] <stackedagainst> I still haven't got around to that PPA thing
[02:52] <stackedagainst> but looks like there is a ppa bug filed
[02:52] <hggdh> which one?
[02:52] <stackedagainst> bug 497562
[02:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 497562 in digikam "On newest PPA beta (KDE 4.4beta1) digikam crashes every time at startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497562
[02:53] <stackedagainst> is that part of any announced testing?
[02:53] <hggdh> not to my knowledge, but I do not follow KDE
[02:54] <hggdh> the PPA name suggests a semi-official (or official) KDE PPA
[02:55] <stackedagainst> does this response look okay? "Thank you for reporting this bug.  As per the bug squad policy, this bug is being set to invalid but marked as a PPA bug.  Please do not hesitate to report any other bug you may find.  Thanks"
[02:55] <hggdh> yes, it is -- https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa
[02:55] <hggdh> stackedagainst: hum
[02:56] <hggdh> hold on
[02:56] <stackedagainst> ok
[02:56] <hggdh> let's try first to contact one of the dev in the PPA
[02:56] <stackedagainst> #kde-devel?
[02:56] <hggdh> nhandler: question on the kubuntu-ppa
[02:57] <stackedagainst> seems to be away :(
[02:57] <persia> #kubuntu-devel probably
[02:57] <persia> The kubuntu devs use a stack of PPAs for testing stuff prior to upload, and may want to take action on the bug
[02:57] <hggdh> stackedagainst: persia suggestion is good -- want to try there?
[02:57] <stackedagainst> hggdh: will do
[02:58] <hggdh> persia: this is what I was considering, after looking at the member list
[02:58] <persia> (it's an invalid bug, but no reason not to highlight it to interested parties just because LP doesn't allow bugs against PPAs)
[02:58] <hggdh> there you go
[02:58] <stackedagainst> persia: it seems more and more like a valid bug
[02:58] <persia> stackedagainst: Certainly a valid bug.  Not a valid Ubuntu task unless uploaded to Ubuntu.
[02:58] <persia> But that's just semantics, and having the Ubuntu task is a workaround for no-bugs-against-ppas
[03:00] <stackedagainst> true, but this bug came to be after enabling the PPA
[03:01] <stackedagainst> so it IS a ppa
[03:03] <persia> Right.
[03:03] <stackedagainst> but my doubt is, is it official enough to be *not set invalid*
[03:03] <nhandler> hggdh: You had a question?
[03:03] <persia> So, it's a bug in a package in a PPA.  Therefore, the "Ubuntu" task is invalid.
[03:03] <persia> *but*
[03:04] <persia> That specific PPA happens to be used by the kubuntu developers.
[03:04] <stackedagainst> which can be considered official?
[03:04] <persia> As a result, if they don't see (and fix) it, the task will become valid when it gets uploaded.
[03:04] <nhandler> What PPA ?
[03:04] <persia> It's a gray area.
[03:04] <stackedagainst> nhandler: bug 497562
[03:04] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 497562 in digikam "On newest PPA beta (KDE 4.4beta1) digikam crashes every time at startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497562
[03:04] <persia> nhandler: ~kubuntu-ppa
[03:05] <stackedagainst> which means we have the long task of tracking down the devs and informing them when its an official ppa
[03:05] <stackedagainst> persia: ^^
[03:05] <persia> There's no such creature as an "official PPA".
[03:05] <persia> There's no means of indicating officialness for PPAs.
[03:06] <hggdh> by definition, yes
[03:06] <stackedagainst> I re-phrase
[03:06] <stackedagainst> persia: ppa of a big ubuntu team :)
[03:06] <persia> But the guys in #kubuntu-devel tend to be fairly responsive.  I'm somewhat surprised you haven't gotten clarity in preferred handling there in this amount of time.
[03:06] <persia> s/guys/folk/ (apologies)
[03:07] <stackedagainst> persia: apparently, they can take bugs on PPA
[03:07] <nhandler> I personally would consider this more of a limitation of LP. Many teams use PPAs as a way to get users to test their packages. However, LP currently does not provide a good way to give the feedback
[03:07] <persia> I completely agree.
[03:08] <persia> I think that LP *should* support bugs-on-ppas
[03:08] <hggdh> nhandler: no questions there. I have tried, before to get a way of making PPA more official, but... failed
[03:08] <persia> But without that it gets fuzzy.  There's no easy well to tell if a given PPA represents something that will be uploaded to Ubuntu.
[03:08] <hggdh> and not always the PPA is indicated in the bug
[03:08] <persia> hggdh: I'm actually somewhat against making PPAs "official".
[03:09] <stackedagainst> apparently, the kubuntu-ppa CAN take bugs :)
[03:09] <persia> They are what they are, but when they have bugs, we need a way to communicate that to the users.
[03:09] <persia> stackedagainst: Um, except LP doesn't offer a way to create those bug tasks.
[03:09] <hggdh> persia: so am I. But we need a middle term
[03:09] <persia> stackedagainst: So you're just talking about a specific social workaround to the technical problem.
[03:09] <nhandler> persia: See #kubuntu-devel, I guess they got around to creating a project for it
[03:10] <stackedagainst> persia: <ScottK> stackedagainst: We have a kubuntu-ppa project that takes such bugs, just move it there.
[03:10] <persia> hggdh: So, when should something be in an "official" PPA that shouldn't just be in Ubuntu ?
[03:10] <persia> stackedagainst: Ah, that's an interesting workaround :)  That's not the PPA taking the bugs, that's just a confusingly named project taking bugs related to the PPA :)
[03:11] <stackedagainst> persia: oh, sorry, my lack of knowledge
[03:11] <stackedagainst> so u're right
[03:11] <nhandler> I don't think we need "official" PPAs. The credibility of the PPA comes from who is maintaining its packages. I think the true solution is to be able to file bugs against a PPA
[03:11] <stackedagainst> persia: its a a social work around to a technical problem
[03:11] <stackedagainst> nhandler: +1
[03:12] <hggdh> nhandler: indeed. And this would (perhaps) solve part of the issue -- triagers would not look at them, only the PPA members
[03:12] <persia> nhandler: Absolutely.
[03:12]  * nhandler goes to see if a bug has been filed requesting this functionality
[03:12] <persia> hggdh: Well, there could exist triagers for the PPA, but at least Ubuntu triagers wouldn't have to deal.
[03:13] <hggdh> what worries me is we are giving more and more emphasys to PPAs -- correctly --, and we still lack a way to effectively deal with them
[03:13] <hggdh> persia: I am assuming that, by definition, the PPA members are the triagers
[03:13] <stackedagainst> hggdh: the Ubuntu task in this case is invalid, right?
[03:13] <nhandler> stackedagainst: Yes
[03:14] <stackedagainst> thanks nhandler :)
[03:14] <persia> hggdh: Well, depends on the size of the team.  Same as in Ubuntu, not everyone is currently a triager :)
[03:14] <hggdh> heh. And same as Ubuntu, they will lack triaging resources
[03:15] <persia> Some of them, yes.
[03:15] <persia> Ah, bug #179873
[03:15] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 179873 in malone "Can't report bugs on PPA packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179873
[03:16] <nhandler> persia: Your LP bug searching skills are better than mine ;) I was still searching
[03:16] <hggdh> yes, old one. Been subscribed to it for quite a while
[03:16] <stackedagainst> nhandler: inside tip, use google rather Lp search ;)
[03:16] <nhandler> stackedagainst: I was ;)
[03:16] <persia> Actually, I got that quickly by searching for "PPA" on malone bugs.
[03:17] <nhandler> Hmm...It looks like it fell off of their radar
[03:17] <persia> Well, there's #launchpad :)
[03:18] <persia> For that matter, there's code, if someone wants to do it.
[03:18] <persia> But I have a suspicion that the semantics are somewhat complicated, and that they would probably suggest a fix to 245183 as a way to solve the issue (as was done with the kubuntu-ppa project)
[03:21] <nhandler> Well, I know that they are going to be adding functionality to link a bzr branch revision to a PPA package (and make it easier to build a package that is stored in bzr). Hopefully, we can get this bug on their radar (as they will probably be more likely to fix it while they are working on the new ppa functionality)
[03:22]  * nhandler will try talking to a few people tomorrow about it
[03:22] <persia> I suspect you're right.
[03:22] <hggdh> thanks, nhandler, help is appreciated on this
[03:24] <stackedagainst> hggdh: is bug 497490 a GTK bug? Isn't it a pidgin bug?
[03:24] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 497490 in gtk+2.0 "Pidgin crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_pixbuf_loader_eat_header_write()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497490
[03:24] <stackedagainst> OR reported against GTK, I added pidgin.  Is it okay to close the GTK task?
[03:25] <persia> There are two bugs represented by that stacktrace
[03:25] <persia> GTK shouldn't segfault, and pidgin shuldn't segfault.
[03:25] <stackedagainst> so leave both of there?
[03:25] <persia> Writing a small test program for an upstream GTK task would be awkward.
[03:26] <persia> But upstream pidgin *rejected* the bug (see http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/10990 )
[03:26] <persia> so there's no point in adding a pidgin (Ubuntu) task unless someone is going to write a local patch
[03:26] <stackedagainst> aw :( why dont I READ
[03:26] <persia> So, I'd recommend leaving it alone.
[03:27] <persia> If you're up for doing the work to isolate the condition, and submit the upstream GTK bug, it's worth an upstream GTK task.
[03:27] <stackedagainst> persia: I'm not that good with programming
[03:27] <persia> Alternately, if you're up for doing the work to make pidgin not trigger the GTK bug, it's worth adding a pidgin (Ubuntu) task.
[03:27] <persia> Fair enough :)
[03:28] <persia> Point being that I don't think it's worth opening tasks when we don't have the information that would be required for someone to action them.
[03:28] <stackedagainst> but a bt is good enough?
[03:28] <hggdh> well, we need the versions, anyway
[03:28] <stackedagainst> do we need an apport-trace?
[03:29] <persia> We don't need an apport trace.  The attachment is enough.  We would benefit from information about the architecture, language, versions of pidgin and gtk, etc.
[03:29] <persia> The bug needs lots of triage, just not new tasks :)
[03:29] <stackedagainst> okay, so what all do I ask?
[03:30] <hggdh> and the variables values at top-of-stack are quite interesting
[03:30] <hggdh> e.g., len and buf
[03:31] <persia> That's probably the source of the crash.
[03:31] <hggdh> and len is under a pidgin function call...
[03:31] <persia> buffer-overflow or soemthing.
[03:32] <hggdh> certainly. I do not think there is a system with that much memory running pidgin (or running at all)
[03:32] <persia> Well, could be a sparse buffer, or could be *very* heavily swapped.
[03:33] <persia> But more likely to be an arithmetic error of some sort, or issue with type conversion.
[03:33] <persia> (in pidgin)
[03:33] <hggdh> yes
[03:33] <persia> Still, IA__gdk_pixbuf_loader_write() shouldn't have crashed :)
[03:34] <persia> Should just return some error condition reporting that it failed to load the buffer.
[03:34] <hggdh> a library should never crash
[03:34] <persia> Well, maybe.
[03:35] <persia> In general yes, but it might be better to crash than to hang, if those are the only available choices.
[03:35] <persia> (just because a crash tells the user something)
[03:35] <persia> But that comes down to API design: one has to remember to ensure there is a way to report error conditions.
[03:36] <persia> And some libraries *define* that mechanism as various sorts of crashes.
[03:36] <persia> And expect the client to trap the crash and handle the condition (which is OK, as long as it's documented)
[03:37] <hggdh> there I completely agree with you
[03:37] <persia> For example, there's a function in OpenAL which is supposed to return a pointer to a structure that manages the audio output interface.
[03:37] <persia> When OpenAL can't allocate such an interface, it crashes.
[03:37] <persia> But callers are expected to then try alternate ways to initialise the interface.
[03:38] <persia> Otherwise, the function would have to either allocate an invalid struct containing error information (which is awkward because the struct is populated based on investigation of the allocated device)
[03:38] <persia> OR, the function would have to store an error condition in some address passed by the caller, and the caller would need to check.
[03:38] <persia> Lots of languages even formalise this as "Exception Processing".
[03:39] <hggdh> which I personally think is better
[03:39] <hggdh> (the error condition being returned)
[03:39] <persia> Personally, I prefer exceptions, but it doesn't really matter, as long as it's documented.
[03:39] <stackedagainst> have you guys noticed evince making changes in the formatting of a pdf?
[03:40] <hggdh> if you are talking to exceptions like in python (or, -- ugh -- java), yes
[03:40] <hggdh> stackedagainst: no
[03:40] <hggdh> not that many PDF opened lately
[03:40] <persia> hggdh: Same thing.  But the way exceptions are done in C looks exactly like a crash if the caller doesn't implement an exception handler :)
[03:40] <stackedagainst> hggdh: bug 497175
[03:40] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 497175 in evince "This program do not read every pdf files. I can send an exemple. Give me an adress." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497175
[03:41] <stackedagainst> the screenshots of the same file in a different reader has some difference
[03:43] <stackedagainst> hggdh: how do I add a tag?
[03:43] <stackedagainst> I wanted to add a PPA tag to the earlier PPA bug and I couldn't :(
[03:43] <hggdh> are you running 9.10?
[03:44] <stackedagainst> yep
[03:45] <hggdh> to add a tag -- click on the exclamation point to the right of the list of current tags
[05:44] <mac_v> micahg: something is wrong with 5-a-day stats! , I joined the team only yesterday , but it seems to check user history too... yay , i ousted you from the second position ;p
[05:45] <micahg> mac_v: nice
[05:45] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[06:55] <echotone> What might cause my screen to freeze and then fuzz up and reset my visual effects? It happens all the time.
[06:56] <nigel_nb> echotone: Hi, if you're looking for support, please ask in #ubuntu, its the main support channel :)
[06:56] <echotone> i have been waiting for 15 minutes for a reply in that channel.
[06:56] <echotone> it sounds like a bug to me..i thought i would try
[06:57] <echotone> does it sound like anythng you would know?
[07:04] <nigel_nb> maco2: any idea about ^^, I'm not friends with X :(
[07:04] <maco2> im not friends with X either. im flatmates with alsa :P
[07:05] <nigel_nb> haha
[07:05] <nigel_nb> dtchen: fixed your alsa btw?
[07:05] <nigel_nb> oops, that came out wrong
[07:05] <nigel_nb> maco2: did daniel fix your alsa
[07:06] <nigel_nb> whats with the 2 nicks anyway
[07:06] <maco2> nah, its not alsa thats the issue. i have consolekit/policykit brokenness (my fault). but new laptop is back so once i swap hard drive back over and reinstall with amd64 and put the proper hard drive back in this one, itll all be good
[07:06] <dtchen> I did unbreak it, however.
[07:06] <maco2> maco is on a quassel core which is having network issues, so i cant reliably reach it. im on irssi right now
[07:07] <maco2> hah yes
[07:07] <maco2> you did point out that i had no pulseaudio config file
[07:08] <nigel_nb> maco2:  that reminds me, I need to start my alter ego up
[07:15] <thekorn> good morning bugsquad
[10:20] <qense> Is Nautilus responsible for drawing the background of the desktop as well?
[10:22] <seb128> qense, yes
[10:22] <seb128> why?
[10:22] <seb128> if it's running
[10:22] <seb128> g-s-d can do that too
[10:23] <qense> There are a few people having problems with the slidehsow. It gets stuck after a while, with two backgrounds loaded over each other.
[10:24] <qense> it's bug 472793 if you're interested
[10:24] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 472793 in nautilus "GNOME background being imposed on another background" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472793
[10:24] <qense> I wanted to file it upstream to ask what they think of it
[10:25] <seb128> ok
[10:25] <qense> I'll dig a bit further into the matter.
[10:53] <qense> Against what should bugs regarding security.ubuntu.com and other archives?
[10:53] <qense> be reported
[11:03] <persia> qense: What class of bug?  Like "this mirror isn't working" or like "this security update is corrupt"?
[11:03] <qense> persia: no IPv6 support for security.ubuntu.com
[11:04] <persia> Hrm.  I'm not sure about that at all.
[11:04] <persia> You might try asking in #ubuntu-security to see if they know.
[11:04] <persia> But it might be the sort of thing that needs an RT rather than a bug.
[11:05] <qense> maybe indeed
[11:05] <qense> anyway, I'll ask there. thanks!
[11:05] <persia> Best of luck!
[11:05] <qense> the channel is invite only!
[11:48] <persia> qense: re: the PPA trend.  I think that whereas before lots of people would spend time trying to get things into Ubuntu, now time is spent making it work in a PPA.
[11:50] <qense> It gets less centralised, maybe. More from PPAs. less from the repository. It would be a shame if it would become the de facto default practise, but it has positive sides.
[11:50] <persia> I'm not certain it hasn't become the de facto default process.
[11:50] <jpds> persia, qense: There already is an RT about ipv6 security.ubuntu.com and LP bug.
[11:51] <persia> PPAs became popular around hardy
[11:51] <persia> and we have *tons* of packages that we're planning to drop from Ubuntu because nobody looked at them since hardy.
[11:51] <qense> jpds: where is it? In that case I'll mark the bug I mentioned as a dup.
[11:51] <persia> But I remember that in gutsy and hardy, lots of people were trying to learn the Ubuntu processes just to get their apps into Ubuntu
[11:51] <persia> I don't see that as much anymore.
[11:52] <qense> putting it into a PPA is easier than getting someone to sponsor you to get it into main or universe.
[11:53] <persia> RIght.
[11:53] <jpds> qense: bug 241305.
[11:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 241305 in update-manager "security.ubuntu.com not accessible in IPv6 (AAAA record missing in the DNS)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241305
[11:53] <qense> jpds: thanks!
[11:53] <persia> But that means that fewer people are trying to maintain main and universe, which makes it harder, and we go into a spin.
[11:53] <persia> Anyway, back to trying to ignore PPAs :)
[11:55] <qense> don't let it get you down!
[11:56] <jpds> qense: As far as I understand it, there are no plans to introduce IPv6 support any time soon.
[11:56] <qense> ok
[11:56] <qense> I'll add that to my reply
[11:56] <qense> where can I find the request tracker, actually? I never heard of it before.
[11:57] <jpds> rt.ubuntu.com - nothing terribly interesting there.
[11:58] <qense> ok, thanks
[14:04] <qense> I'm afk, going to do some snow removal.
[15:40] <bddebian> Boo
[16:27] <qense> hggdh: I've got another bug requesting to disable bash aliases for sudo and his friends like the bug #127116 you handled previously. (I'm talking about bug 368054.) What would you suggest to do with it? It's a bit more sensible than the one you did, but would banning aliases with the names of sudo, gksu, etc be a wise decision?
[16:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 127116 in ubuntu "getting the root password through .bashrc and a fakesudo" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127116
[16:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 368054 in ubuntu "privilege escalation by su/sudo/gksu/kdesu alias" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368054
[16:28] <hggdh> qense: looking
[16:29] <hggdh> qense: still opening the bugs, but -- generically -- prohibiting some alias is, in my view, of limited value
[16:29] <micahg> qense: about bug 490001, it seems like the user isn't restoring their previous X session with hibernate, but effectively shutting down, that's why I reassigned away from firefox per comment #5
[16:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 490001 in docky "Can't drag Network Manager plugin" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490001
[16:30] <micahg> oops, bug 492001
[16:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 492001 in firefox-3.5 ""Well, this is embarrassing" message appears often after shutdown and hibernate" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/492001
[16:33] <qense> hggdh: slow internet connection? :S
[16:33] <hggdh> qense: *very* slow, but finally opened both
[16:34] <qense> good
[16:34] <qense> micahg: OK, so it's actually an invalid bug?
[16:34] <micahg> qense: no, there's an issue with hibernation I think
[16:35] <hggdh> qense: it is pretty much the same as the old bug -- someone took control of a logged in session, and added a trojan. End of story, the mechine is not yours anymore.
[16:35] <hggdh> micahg: the hibernation issue *is* a security issue, and the consequence might be as described in the bug
[16:36] <micahg> hggdh: I was referring to the bug I mentioned, not the one you were previously discussing :)
[16:37] <mrand> I agree in general that prohibiting aliases is of limited value, although part of me thinks it is kinda too bad it su* commands were exempted from aliases since the beginning of time.  I guess we need to start an education campaign that people wanting to trust their su* or pgp/gpg commands need to use a  prefix (either \ or "command").
[16:37] <qense> hggdh: but if you get the user to execute something, like what happened with the infected screensavers at GNOME Look recently, and that thing edits the .bashrc file to point sudo to something malicious and then just installs the screensaver normally, then we'd have a security leak. We'd better make it as hard as possible to infect systems.
[16:37] <mrand> weren't
[16:38] <qense> but indeed, prohibiting certain aliases may not be the best solution
[16:41] <mrand> qense: Yep.  You remove the ability to alias certain commands, and the war will simply escalate to replacing /usr/bin/sudo or gpg.  It comes down to two things: don't install untrusted software, and don't leave your computer unsecured.
[16:42] <qense> I'll mark this as a Won't Fix then, mentioning the Ubuntuforums.org thread and the fact that we've had a small discussion about it to let him know we take his concerns seriously.
[16:45] <qense> done. mrand, hggdh: thanks for your input
[16:46] <mrand> I started thinking of other ways to solve this, and there isn't one.  It ends with Ken Thompson's "Trusting trust" concept.
[16:48] <qense> If you can't trust anything anymore, everything's lost. ;)
[16:48] <matti> Hehe.
[16:48] <matti> ;]
[16:53] <mrand> qense: yeah, if you take this to its logical conclusion, you are correct - and that was his point.  If you didn't write (from the compiler all the way up to the web browser and sudo), then you can't TRULY trust it.  But for the sake of productivity, we have to.  The question is where you draw the line on what you trust and what you don't.
[16:54] <qense> We don't all have the time to run Gentoo and read all source code thoroughly before installing the software; we just have to trust the Ubuntu Developers that if I enter my bank account data on a web page in Firefox that they won't be stolen.
[16:55] <qense> I do trust them
[16:55] <qense> fortunately
[16:56] <hggdh> there is a point here, but I am not sure how valid: critical security applications should check arg[0] to be the path they were supposed to be installed
[16:56] <hggdh> but this would not solve a trojan, or keylogger
[16:57] <hggdh> qense: please also mention bug 127116, since we have there a nice explanation
[16:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 127116 in ubuntu "getting the root password through .bashrc and a fakesudo" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127116
[16:58] <qense> I did
[16:59] <hggdh> cool, thanks. I do think this should be more widely discussed, though. The alias approach is not good (and there are, as mrand pointed out, ways to bypass aliasing), but... I wonder...
[17:00] <qense> What about raising the issue on a mailist?
[17:01] <hggdh> yes, or bringing it to the #ubuntu-hardened
[17:02] <hggdh> also there is another point -- the OR states 'alias ChangeUser='sudo su - user' is not a security issue. This is wrong. It is the *same* issue -- I would then (probably) have the logged-in user's password
[17:02] <qense> during busy times an IRC channel would probably be a better medium since it allows direct responses, which is useful in a discussion of thsi kind
[17:03] <hggdh> yes
[17:03] <hggdh> want to get there now?
[17:03] <qense> alright with me, I'm there already
[17:03] <qense> just joined
[17:04] <mrand> Sorry, I'm overloaded as it is... I'm interested to hear the "conclusion".
[17:05] <mrand> (if there is one ;-)
[17:06] <hggdh> heh. I do not think there will be one
[18:23] <jcastro> bdmurray: I need a recommendation for something
[18:23] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/497853
[18:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 497853 in brasero "Support application indicators" [Undecided,New]
[18:23] <jcastro> I need to file a bug for each affected package
[18:24] <jcastro> is there a CLI way to do this so I can do it faster? ubuntu-bug isn't what I want, it's ...?
[18:24] <bdmurray> jcastro: okay and?
[18:24] <bdmurray> well I imagine you could file the bug via e-mail or using launchpadlib
[18:24] <jcastro> the tag, assignee and description will be the same for all of them
[18:25] <jcastro> ooh, email, good idea
[18:26] <bdmurray> probably the easiest since I don't know of any lplib bug filing stuff
[18:30] <jcastro> bdmurray: oh man, this is great.
[18:32] <bdmurray> jcastro: I'm disappointed that you are more bugs to the bug tracker though
[18:32] <bdmurray> adding
[18:39] <jcastro> bdmurray: don't worry, they're assigned already!
[18:40] <hggdh> xango,Haggadah
[18:41] <hggdh> bloody hell
[18:41] <hggdh> there goes my passphrase :-(
[18:42] <hggdh> well, changed
[18:50] <qense> It better be to something with letter(capitalises and non-capitalised), numbers and special characters!
[18:55] <mrand> qense: But be selective with your special characters, because some apps don't escape things!
[18:56] <qense> indeed! I remember a bug in PolicyKit, disallowing anyone with a special character to unlock the GNOME settings.
[18:56] <qense> (it was fixed)
[18:59] <hggdh> well, it was -- a comma *is* a special char ;-)
[18:59] <persia> There are a bunch of corner cases like that.  For instance, gnome-screensaver is very restrictive about the sorts of characters one can enter to unlock the screen.
[19:00] <hggdh> yes, since most of the times this is developed by the application/package
[19:01] <hggdh> there should be a common lib/API for imposing passwords rules (yes, and I know this will never completely happen)
[19:02] <qense> but there should be indeed
[19:59] <David-T> well, there was PAM...
[20:01] <David-T> s/was/is/
[20:01]  * David-T wonders why he thought pam was replaced
[20:16] <qense> somewhere, lingering around
[20:16] <yoasif> where do i submit a bug related to webcam?
[20:16] <qense> idea! I propse... * tam, tam *  AuthenticationKit
[20:16] <qense> yoasif: what is the problem with your webcam?
[20:17] <yoasif> (ie the cam worked fine in karmic, not working in ludid)
[20:17] <qense> it's not detected anymore?
[20:17] <yoasif> well, not sure about that, it doesn't work in cheese qense
[20:17] <qense> could be caused by the transition from HAL to DeviceKit
[20:17] <yoasif> qense, the device seems to be detected in preferences
[20:18] <yoasif> (in cheese)
[20:18] <yoasif> but i am not getting an image
[20:21] <qense> yoasif: at first I would file a report against the kernel, 'linux', and provide sufficient details, maybe a screenshot of the situation in Cheese as well. I'd suggest to report the bug with the command 'ubuntu-bug linux' with the webcam connected (and if necessary, turned on) because that will generate a report with a lot of details.
[20:22] <yoasif> qense, sure, it's a built in webcam, so im hoping it turns on when cheese is open
[20:23] <yoasif> ooh, apport is recommending i try with the upstream kernel
[20:24] <qense> really? That's new to me. :P
[20:24] <qense> What does it exactly say?
[20:24] <yoasif> yeah, new here too
[20:24] <yoasif> Testing the upstream kernel can help isolate issues in Ubuntu kernel patches, discover a bug is fixed upstream, or confirm the issue exists upstream.  Would you like to test the upstream kernel first before reporting this bug?
[20:24] <yoasif> For information on testing the upstream kernel, refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/MainlineBuilds
[20:25] <yoasif> ill have to grab the mainline kernel before i submit a bug i guess, to provide a better report
[20:25] <qense> you're running Lucid?
[20:25] <yoasif> wait, i can't even do that
[20:25] <yoasif> yeah
[20:26] <qense> in that case you probably won't notice a bit extra instability ;)
[20:26] <qense> but updating the kernel to something more unstable is not without risks
[20:26] <qense> what's the output of uname -a on your system?
[20:27] <yoasif> 2.6.32-8-generic #12-Ubuntu SMP Sat Dec 12 12:54:44 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[20:27] <yoasif> not sure which 32 kernel to get http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/?C=M;O=D
[20:28] <qense> I suppose you could try http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.32/
[20:29] <yoasif> rc8 is newer
[20:29] <yoasif> and im guessing that is what i am running -- with ubuntu patches
[20:30] <qense> well, in that case Apport could be wrong
[20:30] <qense> worth a bug report? ;)
[20:30] <yoasif> well rc8 is on the server http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.32-rc8/
[20:30] <yoasif> so im wondering if i should just try it with that
[20:31] <qense> you could ask in #ubuntu-kernel -- that is the right channel, isn't it? -- for help
[20:32] <yoasif> thanks, asking there now
[20:33] <qense> yw
[20:36] <yoasif> qense, ok the answer is -- use the .32, not rc8
[20:36] <qense> good
[20:36] <yoasif> in case anyone else wants to know :)
[21:31] <qense> What source package is responsible for generating/maintaining /etc/fstab?
[21:33] <micahg> qense: it doesn't seem to belong to any specific package in the dpkg DB
[21:35] <qense> yes, that was the problem I had
[21:35] <micahg> qense: mount has an example file
[21:35] <micahg>    util-linux  seems to be it :)
[21:36] <qense> micahg: OK, I'll change the bug package to that. Thanks!
[21:55] <persia> qense: Which bug?
[21:56] <qense> bug 480147
[21:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 480147 in util-linux "/etc/fstab mentions vol_id but that has been replaced by blkid" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480147
[21:56] <qense> persia: it was about the comment in /etc/fstab pointing to the wrong command
[21:59] <persia> I have a suspicion that the fstab is written by the installer
[22:00] <Guest80412> i turned wlan off in ubuntu and it cannot be turned back on. what can i do ? i am working on emachines notebook
[22:01] <qense> persia: that would mean it would either be a Ubiquity bug, or -- if it works fine on new installs, but we want it to be corrected on upgrades -- an Update Manager bug
[22:01] <Catty> Is there a problem with signature verification failure in 9.10 .iso's?  I've tried several versions and they all seem to have the problem
[22:02] <jpds> Catty: Which error do you get?
[22:02] <persia> qense: We *really* don't want to have any programs touching /etc/fstab post-install.  It's more likely to break stuff than help.
[22:02] <joaopinto> a debootrape creats an enpty fstab with: # UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM
[22:02] <joaopinto> deboostrap
[22:02] <joaopinto> grrr, empty
[22:03] <persia> Right, which it should.
[22:03] <qense> without comment?
[22:03] <Catty> trying to install additional packages from the cdrom "E: Sub-process gpgv returned an error code(2)" "W: Signature verification failed for: /cdrom/dists/karmic/Release.gpg"
[22:03] <joaopinto> without comments
[22:03] <qense> ok, thanks
[22:03] <persia> Hrm?
[22:03] <persia> It does have a comment.  "# UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM"
[22:04] <qense> I meant the comment mentioning the vol_id --uuid versus blkid command. I could have been more clear ;)
[22:05] <persia> qense: Check the changelog for partman-target 64ubuntu1 : it's already fixed for new installs.
[22:05] <persia> (that was during karmic)
[22:05] <qense> persia: I just wanted to check that, thanks! In that case the bug is Invalid.
[22:06] <persia> Well, I think so, because I think it's more dangerous to progamatically monkey with /etc/fstab post-install than to expect users to read the manual or ask for help if something goes wrong.
[22:06] <qense> vol_id doesn't exist anymore anyway, so they can't blow their systems up with it
[22:07] <persia> But, do the UUIDs get transformed into blkids by some program on upgrade?
[22:07] <persia> If so, that program ought to be changing the note as well.
[22:07] <persia> If not, it doesn't matter.
[22:07] <persia> There's probably lots of users in the awkward state, but I don't think it's worth fixing except in the case where someone is upgrading.
[22:08] <qense> Which will be the case with the new LTS, we'll get users from Dapper and Hardy, which still have vol_id (or something older for Dapper?).
[22:10] <persia> Good point.
[22:10] <Catty> jpds - any clue? as I said I get it with multiple cd attempts
[22:10] <qense> I'll check the upgrade process before changing the bug status
[22:12] <persia> qense: I don't see anything useful in `grep fstab /var/lib/dpkg/info/*` : I'm not sure what does that.
[22:13] <persia> (or even if anything does)
[22:15] <qense> If LP won't OOPS too often I'll dig through the code of the upgrade process to see if there is a hook for it.
[22:19] <qense> I give up for now, LP won't load. Tomorrow is another day! I'll look again then. persia: thanks for your input
[22:20] <persia> qense: Good luck on tracking this down: it seems like it's one of those bugs that sit at the back of one's mind for months.
[22:20] <jcastro> bdmurray: sweet! did half of bugcontrol just expire?
[22:20] <qense> what?!
[22:20] <qense> persia: It is one of those tiny things that need to be taken care of in order to make an upgrade go smooth
[22:21] <qense> Anyway, I'm off. Good night everyone!
[22:21] <bdmurray> jcastro: no the kernel team was a made a member so there direct membership was removed
[22:21] <jcastro> oh ok, whew. :D
[23:25] <RedSingularity> Hey everyone, i am interested in joining the Bug Squad.  What do i need to do to make it official?
[23:26] <dtchen> do work, apply
[23:26] <malev> hi RedSingularity
[23:26] <RedSingularity> Hey
[23:26] <malev> RedSingularity, did you join in us in launchpad_
[23:27] <RedSingularity> I think i just did
[23:27] <malev> RedSingularity, excelent! well.. then you need to start reading some tutorials or things like that, if you have some time now
[23:28] <RedSingularity> Sure.....send e'm over
[23:28] <malev> RedSingularity, you can read some one of thems and as today is a hugday you can practices with a hug list of bugs!
[23:28] <malev> RedSingularity, give me a sec
[23:28] <malev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[23:28] <malev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/FAQ
[23:29] <RedSingularity> malev, Great, i will read it now
[23:29] <malev> for start! please ask anything you dont understand here!
[23:31] <malev> hi! I have a question, how could this be a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/358107   Can I recomend it to post it in brainstorm or something like that and close the bug report????
[23:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 358107 in ubuntu "Lenovo Ideapad S10e Fn+F5 not working" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:55] <malev>  hi! I have a question, how could this be a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/358107   Can I recomend it to post it in brainstorm or something like that and close the bug report????
[23:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 358107 in ubuntu "Lenovo Ideapad S10e Fn+F5 not working" [Undecided,Invalid]


[00:47] <Cheesehead> h00k: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1085/detail/
[00:47] <Cheesehead> Seem correct?
[00:48] <h00k> Cheesehead: Appears so, I can begin forwarding notices again to the LoCo, I do occasionally if I'm not superbusy when I get the email regarding it
[00:49] <h00k> I should.
[00:49] <h00k> Cheesehead: awesome!
[01:05] <Cheesehead> That one was practice - to see if I could figure out the Ubuntu event system
[01:06] <Cheesehead> Now there's an event we (somebody else) can add to the wiki, and (me) add to the reports.
[01:07] <Cheesehead> It doesn't replace other methods, but it does get the event into the Ubuntu ical, and
[01:07] <Cheesehead> ..someday...if we want to be a real approved LoCo again, we need this kind of documentation
[01:08]  * Cheesehead goes off to mop the kitchen floor
[01:16] <h00k> I concur
[01:16] <h00k> so, cool. we have a few people that want to.
[01:26]  * Cheesehead returns from the kitchen
[01:27] <Cheesehead> Whew. Dirty floor. Clean now.
[01:37] <Cheesehead> hook: >we have a few people that want to.
[01:37] <Cheesehead> Seems so.
[01:38] <Cheesehead> Ugh. I keep mispelling y0ur name. Sorry.
[01:38] <h00k> It's alright
[01:38] <h00k> h<tab>
[01:38] <Cheesehead> h00k: Hey! I learned something new. Thanks...
[01:40] <h00k> Cheesehead: ;) works on most IRC clients
[01:50] <Cheesehead> Event listing - UH Madison 20 Aug http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1085/detail/ , ical http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1085/detail/ical/
[01:51] <Cheesehead> Event listing - UH Madison 17 Sep http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1086/detail/, ical http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1086/detail/ical/
[01:52] <Cheesehead> Event listing - UH Madison 15 Oct http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1087/detail/, icoal http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/1087/detail/ical/
[01:52] <h00k> http://wisconsinlinux.org/
[01:53] <Cheesehead> icoal? Perhaps I meant ical
[01:53] <Cheesehead> h00k: Saw it - these are the Ubuntu wiki event listings. In case anyone cares.
[01:54] <Cheesehead> This way, they're in my IRC log, I'll need them in a month or two
[01:54] <h00k> Makes sense
[01:54] <Cheesehead> I suppose MadLug should be putting the events into WiLug's wiki
[01:55] <Cheesehead> Not to be bureaucratic about it (ha ha)
[01:55] <h00k> Wer're also logged here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/21/%23ubuntu-us-wi.html
[01:55] <h00k> etc, etc
[01:55] <Cheesehead> h00k: Yup, I have a little script that pulls that log whenever my laptop goes online.
[01:56] <Cheesehead> Handy to see what the conversation is about while I've been working
[01:56] <h00k> :Dice
[01:56] <h00k> *nice
[01:56] <h00k> my upload is making everything lag.
[01:57] <h00k> I use irssi on a VPS so it's always (usually) connected
[01:58] <Cheesehead> h00k: http://wisconsinlinux.org/index.php/Wisconsin_Linux_Users#Meetings_.2F_Event_Calendar shows a bimonthly #ubuntu-wisconsin meeting
[01:58] <Cheesehead> Old info they never erased?
[02:00] <h00k> yes.
[02:00] <h00k> :/
[02:01] <h00k> wait, that might be my calendar?
[02:01] <h00k> Nope
[02:01] <h00k> mikeputnam: that's you!
[02:02] <h00k> I have https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/ql53dv4hme3frk8ro72fbc2g84%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics
[02:02] <h00k> and/or https://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/ql53dv4hme3frk8ro72fbc2g84%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic
[02:02] <h00k> and/or https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=ql53dv4hme3frk8ro72fbc2g84%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Chicago
[02:03] <h00k> I'll leave myself a note to write up about Global Jam
[02:03] <h00k> unless anyone else cares to
[02:03] <h00k> call-to-arms, etc
[02:04] <Cheesehead> What have you done in the past?
[02:04] <Cheesehead> (Both successful and unsuccessful)
[02:06] <h00k> For which? Global Jam? in general?
[02:07] <Cheesehead> Jam
[02:07] <h00k> W were going to have people do testing and bug reporting, checking  in on IRC each hour to talk about their finds
[02:07] <h00k> nobody else came back :(
[02:07] <h00k> It was hard to get people to the meeting to discuss it
[02:09] <h00k> People are all "Yeah, here are my ideas!" and then they never show up
[02:10] <Cheesehead> I'll show up for that. Before Brainstorm, I hung out in the Bug Squad.
[02:10] <Cheesehead> Nothing fancy, but I can diagnose easy install failures and assign packages.
[02:12] <Cheesehead> I'm not good enough to tell when a bug is properly Triaged, but I can usually tell when it's not and what to ask for
[02:13] <Cheesehead> Brainstormers are much the same - lots of talk, few show up.
[02:13] <Cheesehead> That's okay.
[02:14] <Cheesehead> I was thinking of a Friday after-work MKE Ubuntu Hour
[02:14] <Cheesehead> How about a Sunday midday IRC meet for ...whatever?
[02:14] <h00k> This sunday?
[02:14] <Cheesehead> Bugs are good. VMs should make working them a lot easier than it used to be!
[02:14] <Cheesehead> No, Jam Sunday
[02:14] <h00k> Oh, oh.
[02:15] <h00k> Yeah.
[02:15] <Cheesehead> If I announce a Friday UH on only 24 hrs notice, the resulting turnouts is quite predicatble
[02:16]  * Cheesehead unfumbles his fingers
[02:17] <h00k> Feel free to write anything up and ship it out
[02:17] <Cheesehead> Will do.
[02:17] <Cheesehead> ...Tomorrow.
[02:18] <h00k> I'm assisting a friend diagnose a bug at the moment, then I have some more wedding planning
[12:56] <mikeputnam> h00k: remedied.
[12:57] <mikeputnam> wisconsinlinux.org no longer mentions a standing 8pm irc meeting for #ubuntu-us-wi
[14:11] <Cheesehead> Updated the team wiki reports for June, added July report
[14:28] <h00k> mikeputnam: cool!


[20:11] <mavblue> hello
[20:11] <mavblue> anyone around?
[20:12] <mavblue> got a question about installation
[20:22] <mavblue> well I'll just ask it anyways
[20:23] <mavblue> I have an existing ubuntu server with about a terabyte of movies on it that I would like to use as the backend, but I can't find anything anywhere that details what packages I would need to install
[20:23] <mavblue> and the frontend installation won't proceed until it detects the backend
[20:24] <mavblue> unless I make it a primary backend with frontend, which is undesirable considering I already have an existing server
[20:25] <mavblue> so the question is, what are the packages I need to install on my server(which has no gui) to proceed with installing the frontend?
[21:23] <mavblue> anyone around?
[21:24]  * mavblue pokes room
[22:15] <Kwisher> mavblue: the f/e will require a DE
[22:16] <Kwisher> i believe the b/e will also
[22:18] <mavblue> a what?
[22:33] <SmallwoodDR82> backend
[22:38] <mavblue> I realize I need a backend, that's the issue tho, I have an existing server with over a terabyte of media, but I don't know the name of the packages I need to install
[22:41] <mavblue> I'm stuck at the front end install because it wants a backend to connect to, and I don't see the point of installing a primary backend w/ frontend if my media resides elsewhere
[22:41] <mavblue> I just need some direction as to what the packages are called to install the backend on ubuntu server with no gui
[22:47] <mavblue> has nobody ever installed their backend to a headless box before?
[22:51]  * mavblue twiddles thumbs
[23:06] <Kwisher> MavBlue: do you have tuners on the server you mentioned?
[23:07] <MavBlue> nope, just media
[23:07] <Kwisher> then why do you need mythtv?
[23:08] <MavBlue> mythbuntu was recommended as a good media centre distro
[23:08] <Kwisher> just install xbmc on the f/e machine and share the media from the server
[23:08] <Kwisher> mythtv is a pvr
[23:09] <Kwisher> can be used as a media center but it would be overkill
[23:09] <MavBlue> can you recommend a good lightweight xbmc distro then?
[23:09] <Kwisher> install xbmc on ubuntu
[23:09] <SmallwoodDR82> openelec
[23:09] <Kwisher> it's just a package
[23:10] <MavBlue> tried that one, get's stuck in a loop on first boot
[23:10] <Kwisher> i just installed xbmc on manjaro
[23:10] <MavBlue> and full blown ubuntu is a tad heavy for this old pc
[23:11] <Kwisher> well if it won't run ubuntu then mythtv would be out of the question
[23:11] <MavBlue> I'm hoping, with fingers crossed, to find a distro intended for use as a media center and nothing extra
[23:12] <MavBlue> I'm sure it will run ubuntu, but unity is pretty overkill resourcewise
[23:12] <Kwisher> try xubuntu
[23:12] <MavBlue> I'm hoping to be able to play 720p without the gui getting in the way
[23:13] <Kwisher> you will need an nvidia card to offload to the gpu
[23:15] <Kwisher> what's the pc spec's?
[23:18] <MavBlue> pentium 4 3Ghz  2gb ram, ati 9250 256mb graphics


[00:10] <tsimonq2> wgrant: I assume he's talking about PPA
[06:11] <flocculant> hi peeps - just a fyi, there is spam in blueprints on lp/exaile > https://launchpad.net/exaile
[07:01] <Ionic_> hm, logging in to help.launchpad.net seems to be very slow, including ISEs
[07:03] <ricotz> hello, it seesm I am not able to pull/push from/to git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/*
[07:10] <wgrant> ricotz: Why are you not able to?
[07:11] <ricotz> wgrant, it seems not to respond at all
[07:11] <ricotz> pulling from https://git.launchpad.net works
[07:11] <wgrant> ricotz: What does "ssh -v git.launchpad.net" say?
[07:12] <ricotz> it gets stuck after debug1: Offering public key: ECDSA...
[07:13] <wgrant> ricotz: That's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/907675. You'll need to configure your SSH client to offer one of your LP keys before the ECDSA key.
[07:13] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 907675 in Launchpad itself "Add support for ECDSA and Ed25519 SSH keys" [Low,Triaged]
[07:14] <ricotz> wgrant, ah, I see, explicitly add git.launchpad.net makes it work again
[07:15] <ricotz> wgrant, is it recommended to replace my RSA key?
[07:21] <wgrant> ricotz: I don't understand the question.
[07:22] <ricotz> wgrant, I mean is using a ECDSA key preferred over a RSA key now?
[07:22] <wgrant> ricotz: No, ECDSA keys aren't supported yet.
[07:22] <wgrant> And RSA is still secure.
[07:23] <ricotz> ok, so it is caused by a recent ssh update (on bionic)
[07:48] <ricotz> wgrant, btw, there seem to be a lot of x86 builders stuck in cleaning again
[09:39] <cjwatson> ricotz: As it happens I debugged this SSH issue over the weekend and will be landing a fix soon (not to support ECDSA, but just not to break when it's offered)
[09:47] <cjwatson> flocculant: slaughtering, thanks
[17:38] <flocculant> cjwatson: np - and wandering off
[20:46] <Ionic_> I think that in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes#Version_numbers_and_substitution_variables the purpose for revtime should be updated to state that the substitution contains both date and time