[15:12] <waldo323__> good morning, just saw the announcement that blender is getting commercial support option(s) from canonical, that's pretty cool
[15:20] <cmaloney> Nice!
[15:20] <cmaloney> I hadn't seen t hat yet.
[21:11] <jrwren_> TIL: apt install cpulimit
[21:11] <jrwren_> modern cgroup cpulimit. like nice for the 2020s
[21:20] <Scary_Guy> is there an "and" for it or does it just auto do that too?


[02:51] <mwhudson> baah
[02:51] <mwhudson> my x220's sd card reader appears to not work in trusty :(
[04:46] <pseudocode77> hello
[06:02] <pitti> Good morning
[06:02] <pitti> dobey: hey
[06:02] <pitti> infinity: sorry, was travelling back from the sprint
[06:08] <dholbach> good morning
[06:10] <anirudha> I want to pack pre-compiled binary files in a .deb package. Can anyone tell me the minimum set of tools that are needed to achieve  this?
[06:11] <infinity> pitti: I assume you'll be around to chair in two weeks? :)
[06:12] <infinity> pitti: Also, since my magic powers don't yet work (and no point caring until the SSO stuff is done), can you retry binutils/i386?
[06:13] <cjwatson> anirudha: Bare minimum for creating any -dev package is build-essential; but it's less effort to use debhelper as well, in which case you can just use dh_install(1) to put the files in place in the output .deb
[06:13] <pitti> infinity: yes, hopefully; it's a ridiculously bad time for me, with the new TB we should maybe do a new poll for a new time
[06:13] <cjwatson> anirudha: ("for creating any .deb package", I mean)
[06:14] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, I noted the same thing at the end of the meeting.
[06:15] <pitti> infinity: kicked binutils and a few others
[06:15] <infinity> pitti: Not counting conferences and other travel, you're currently the only European on the TB, the rest are spread across 4 timezones in North America.
[06:16] <infinity> pitti: Not sure what would be best for that, but we can probably sort something out.
[06:16] <pitti> infinity: we can just do a new doodle?
[06:17] <infinity> pitti: Sure, doodle away.
[06:17] <infinity> pitti: Mostly, you'll probably find that it'll be scheduling your timezone against slangasek's meeting schedule, and the rest of us will be fairly flexible, I imagine.
[06:20] <pitti> hmm, ubuntu desktop now pulls in a gazillion qml/qt5 packages
[06:20] <anirudha> cjwatson: So do I get dh_install with the package debhelper?
[06:20] <cjwatson> Yes
[06:22] <anirudha> cjwatson: Do I need to install dh_make for creating the correct directory/file structure or debhelper is enough?
[06:23] <cjwatson> No, you don't.  dh_make is just a helper for people unfamiliar with packaging
[06:24] <cjwatson> But it's entirely possible (and often reasonable) to create the small number of files directly
[06:26] <cjwatson> Of what dh_make -s creates, the only files you strictly need are debian/{changelog,control,copyright,rules}, though you should probably also keep debian/source/format, and if you use debhelper you should also keep debian/compat
[06:27] <cjwatson> (If you don't use debhelper, you would need to write a much longer debian/rules; it's not usually worth the effort)
[06:28]  * infinity sighs at easymock trying to pull the entire maven world into main via the new dep on libobjenesis-java ...
[06:28]  * infinity decides this isn't something to try to fix at 12:30am.
[06:28] <jfi> tedg, Trevinho, Hello, I reproduce with the sample at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators, just add app_indicator_set_label(indicator, "L", "GUIDDDDDE"); at line 165
[06:29] <jfi> tedg, Trevinho, http://pastebin.com/4w8q9VLb
[06:33] <infinity> jamespage: Can libhamcrest-java be made to not nead easymock, or easymock neutered to not need libobjenesis-java?  That chain has decided to pull all things maven into main. :/
[06:33] <anirudha> cjwatson: You are right. I will be automating the process through a script, so dh_make won't help me in any special way.
[06:36] <anirudha> cjwatson: Are you aware of any Ubuntu specific alternative of debhelper? For example (correct me if I am wrong) an alternative to dh_make is bzr-builddeb.
[06:39] <infinity> anirudha: bzr builddeb is just a friendly wrapper that exports a bzr branch and then runs dpkg-buildpackage.
[06:39] <infinity> anirudha: The debian/* bits still need to exist first.
[06:43] <anirudha> infinity: Thanks. That cleared my doubts.
[06:48] <mitya57> When Utopic didn't even have a code name, I sponsored gnome-panel/1:3.8.0-1ubuntu12 to Trusty SRU queue, now it is accepted there. Should I copy it to Utopic (with binaries), or do another upload with version bump, or nothing?
[06:50] <infinity> mitya57: I wouldn't copy it until it gets to updates, or you may find yourself in a bit of a weird versioning bind if it fails SRU validation.
[06:50] <infinity> mitya57: But you could always do a -1ubuntu13 upload to utopic and just not worry about the copy.
[06:51] <mitya57> infinity: Thanks. My main concern was that it could be not copied to -updates until Trusty gets it, that is probably not true.
[06:51] <infinity> mitya57: (As in, that's never the wrong thing to do, it's just sometimes people are lazy and expect others will do the copy forward for them so they don't have to do two uploads :P)
[06:51] <infinity> mitya57: s/Trusty/Utopic/ in your last sentence?
[06:52] <mitya57> Of course.
[06:52] <infinity> mitya57: No one will block the SRU copy on if the fix has landed yet in utopic, no.  But it's also a headache to track the differences and make sure everything's happy, so if you're at all concerned, just do the second upload.
[06:53] <infinity> mitya57: It's not like you're saving any mirror space by being clever with the copy, given that it's gnome-panel, and it'll have a dozen uploads this cycle anyway. :P
[06:53] <mitya57> Maybe I'll do a Debian merge if I have time :P
[06:56] <infinity> mitya57: Oh, speaking of things you uploaded.  Congrats on your sync that failed everywhere EXCEPT powerpc.  That's got to be a first.
[06:56] <infinity> mitya57: (owncloud-client/1.5.3+dfsg-1)
[06:56] <mitya57> infinity: I filed a bug to Debian yesterday, if I don't get any response, I'll just ignore the tests failures
[06:57] <mitya57> I think it has something to do with parallel running (is the powerpc buildd single-core?)
[06:57] <infinity> mitya57: The machine it build on would have been -j2
[06:57] <infinity> mitya57: While the x86 buildds were -j8, armhf was -j4, arm64 was -j8, and ppc64el was... Also -j8
[06:58] <infinity> mitya57: So, yeah, a fair guess.
[06:58] <infinity> mitya57: And the answer there wouldn't be to ignore failures, but to make the testsuite not parallelise.
[06:59] <infinity> mitya57: You just got lucky in landing on a -j2 ppc builder, I guess.  Your other options in that pool were -j4 and -j24 (yes, 24).
[06:59] <mitya57> infinity: Will dh_auto_test -- -j1 do the trick? Or will that result in two conflicting options?
[06:59] <sarnold> -j24? oooo
[06:59] <sarnold> seems a real pity to knock a -j24 machine down to a -j1 test suite, heh
[07:00] <infinity> mitya57: Not sure the best way to do it without looking at the package.
[07:00] <mitya57> sarnold: The test suite is quite small, takes seconds to run
[07:00] <mitya57> infinity: It is using cmake/ctest
[07:01] <sarnold> mitya57: ah :) that's not so bad then
[07:01] <sarnold> especially if it makes the results repeatable. :)
[07:02] <infinity> mitya57: So, you could lose --parallel entirely from dh, or try --max-parallel=1 with dh_auto_test, but not sure if the latter would work if the cmake magic already picked up and hardcoded -j8 earlier in the build process.
[07:03] <infinity> cmake and I aren't the best of friends.
[07:03]  * infinity checks locally to see how reproducible this is.
[07:03] <infinity> Oh, it also handily prints out the -j2 in the log there, so easy to tell if it's fixed.
[07:04]  * infinity tests.
[07:10] <infinity> mitya57: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7357643/
[07:10] <infinity> mitya57: That ran the build -j4 on my laptop, but the testsuite -j1, and passed.
[07:11] <infinity> mitya57: Feel free to steal and upload and comment on the Debian bug, I have no interest in having TIL on that package. :)
[07:11] <mitya57> infinity: Thanks, will now upload & comment :)
[07:21] <mpt> bdmurray, iirc, the formula for a series secondary color is halfway between the primary color and white (#ffffff)
[07:40] <work_alkisg> [gnome|unity]-settings-daemon have an Ubuntu-specific patch, that strips the xkb options for keyboard layout switch:
[07:40] <work_alkisg> if (n_sources < 2 || g_strcmp0 (g_getenv ("XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP"), "Unity") == 0)
[07:40] <work_alkisg>                 strip_xkb_option (options, "grp:");
[07:40] <work_alkisg> That's causing many serious keyboard issues and I'm trying to find the person that wrote that patch to discuss about possible solutions, before filing more bug reports (I've reported 5-6 related issues already)
[07:40] <work_alkisg> I think the original patch was in gnome-settings-daemon/debian/patches/unity-modifier-media-keys.patch, but I'm having problems locating the branch history in launchpad, could someone help me find the author of that patch?
[07:41] <pitti> doko_: ah yes, that was a temporary glitch yesterday, already fixed an hour later
[07:41] <pitti> doko_: I forgot to retry python3.4 as that failed before, due to -testsuite crashing in postinst
[07:41] <pitti> doko_: retried (as there's a new version now)
[07:42] <infinity> alkisg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/154896043/gnome-settings-daemon_3.8.5-0ubuntu10_3.8.5-0ubuntu11.1.diff.gz
[07:42] <infinity> alkisg: That looks like the upload that introduced it.
[07:42] <alkisg> So william.hua, thanks a lot infinity
[07:43] <mitya57> alkisg: He is attente on #ubuntu-desktop. Also you could just look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/438
[07:44] <alkisg> mitya57: thank you, I'll read some more to prepare my "case", and I'll talk to him later on.
[08:34] <infinity> mitya57: Did you not send the 1-line fix to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746278 or is the BTS just lagging?
[09:48] <GunnarHj> Thanks for the im-config upload, dholbach. Can you please merge the branch too. Since the branch and archive were out of sync, the robot won't do it.
[09:51] <dholbach> GunnarHj, done
[09:51] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Thanks. :)
[09:51] <dholbach> anytime :)
[09:52] <seb128> dholbach, did you upload the SRU as well?
[09:52] <dholbach> seb128, right now I just uploaded the merge
[09:54] <GunnarHj> dholbach: I think seb128 referred to separate SRU bug, which actually is much more urgent.
[09:54] <dholbach> ah ok
[09:56] <seb128> GunnarHj, dholbach: I was speaking about the "no ibus under qt5" bug (I crossed it yesterday while looking at reports since release)
[10:12] <ara> Hello, we have a bug I would like to get triaged, but not sure if it is the right package
[10:12] <ara> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1313522
[10:13] <ara> does anyone know what package we should file the bug against?
[10:14] <rbasak> pitti: so I'm merging vsftpd, and the existing delta drops the init.d script entirely (replacing with an upstart script)
[10:14] <rbasak> pitti: with bug 1273462 not fixed, having it there is an immediate problem. So does this bug block the systemd story?
[10:15] <pitti> rbasak: hm, I thought during the TC debate and before Debian figured out how to run upstart an sysv side by side in the packaging? i. e. our dh_installinit has already been changed to ignore --upstart-only and all that
[10:16] <rbasak> pitti: AIUI, it is a Debian policy requirement to make sure that if a maintainer ships an upstart script, and upstart is in use, then any shipped init.d script must not break things.
[10:16] <rbasak> AIUI, this was to be implemented by having /lib/lsb/init-functions detect this situation, to easily cover all init.d scripts that use it.
[10:17] <pitti> rbasak: for now, don't worry too much about putting back init.d scripts I think
[10:17] <rbasak> OK
[10:18] <pitti> rbasak: with systemd one could use the init.d script, but it would make much more sense to use socket activation with vsftp and write a proper systemd unit
[10:19] <rbasak> pitti: my thinking was that if we solved this init.d script issue, then systemd would at least magically work for everything without needing specific systemd work on each package.
[10:19] <rbasak> (thus making the systemd migration much easier)
[10:19] <pitti> rbasak: right, that was the idea; I lived under the impression that upstart vs. init.d conflicts were already handled
[10:20] <rbasak> Ah, OK. AFAIK, we have agreed how to handle it, but haven't actually done it.
[10:21] <pitti> rbasak: and /lib/lsb/init-functions seemed to indicate that this was the case already
[10:21] <pitti> ah: it defines init_is_upstart(), but doesn't use it by itself
[10:21] <pitti> thus it seems every init.d script would need to add that? that seems crazy and totally impractical
[10:22] <rbasak> I think the plan is to have init-functions do it, but that's pending.
[10:22] <pitti> rbasak: then again, if you directly call the init.d script instead of using "service", you probably get what you asked for
[10:22] <rbasak> So technically we do need to have every init.d script handle it, but in practice I think everyone's waiting for lsb-functions instead.
[10:23] <rbasak> pitti: indeed, but many people do still call init.d scripts directly. We get bugs filed when things break that way.
[10:23] <pitti> ah, service DTRT
[10:23] <rbasak> cf. "/etc/init.d/networking restart"
[10:23] <pitti> rbasak: if you run that, a lot more will actually break, but yes
[10:24] <pitti> perhaps we need to make all init scripts non-executable or so
[10:24] <rbasak> Maybe change the shebangs to some kind of wrapper?
[10:25] <rbasak> Seems a bit extreme though.
[10:25] <rbasak> Though actually, rather than doing it across the board, having a guard-type wrapper that a maintainer can just shebang could be another way of implementing the protection.
[10:26] <rbasak> #!/usr/bin/not-if-upstart /bin/sh -e ...
[10:26] <pitti> rbasak: that would again require to touch all packages
[10:26] <rbasak> Or dh_installinit?
[10:29] <pitti> rbasak: perhaps, yes; and a mass-rebuild; but I think making them non-executable might be easier
[10:30] <ara> cjwatson, is systemd the right package for this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1313522
[10:30] <pitti> I mean, if people are willingly shooting themselves into the foot by calling init scripts and that is considered a bug, let's make them not able to :)
[10:30] <cjwatson> ara: I thought that was pm-utils, but pitti is more likely to know what's current there
[10:30] <pitti> ara: curious; we have disabled hibernate for many cycles by default now
[10:30] <rbasak> How would real pieces (service, rc etc) call init.d scripts if they are non-executable?
[10:31] <rbasak> By reading their shebangs by hand?
[10:31] <ara> pitti, yes, but we (commercial eng) are remapping hibernate to hybrid sleep
[10:31] <rbasak> Also, the user won't get a helpful message that way.
[10:31] <pitti> ara: could be anything between systemd and the indicator; I'll follow up there
[10:31] <ara> pitti, fantastic, thanks
[10:31] <pitti> ara: ah, so they put it back on? can you please describe what you changed there? (in the bug please)
[10:32] <ara> pitti, sure
[10:33] <pitti> ara: don't tell the design team :) they were quite adamant about disabling hibernate by default
[10:33] <ara> pitti, well, this is hybrid sleep it is not the same thing (although very similar) and we make sure it works :D
[10:34] <pitti> ara: yes, but they said having two options was too confusing
[10:46] <pitti> ara: followed up
[10:46] <ara> thanks
[10:48] <pitti> ara: OOI, if such an issue (non-default configuration, non-essentail functionality) is already "Critical", how do you mark things which are actually critical? :)
[10:49] <ara> pitti, well, I marked it as critical only in the OEM priority task, as it is critical for our schedule, not in the ubuntu task
[10:51] <pitti> ara: yes, sure; I was just interested in how you interpret the importance there
[10:55] <xnox> pitti: rbasak: i am working on a proper snippet to fix "running init.d scripts and get upstart job to launch properly" submitted fixes to debian for sysv-init (service command and invoke-rc.d)
[10:56] <xnox> pitti: rbasak: one more patch is needed in upstart it self, and then we can sync all of that to utopic and sru into trusty.
[10:56] <pitti> xnox: ah nice, thanks for the heads-up!
[10:56] <xnox> pitti: rbasak: as far as i can tell, systemd packaging in debian already does it via /ib/lsb/init-functions.d
[10:57] <xnox> pitti: rbasak: such that under systemd one can just operate init.d files and that does call into systemd appropriately.
[10:58] <xnox> pitti: i'm not running systemd, but can you test that ^ ? e.g. call /etc/init.d/ssh restart and check that it gets restarted via systemd unit?
[10:58] <rbasak> xnox: thanks!
[10:58] <pitti> ah, clever! Is there any piece of shell in Debian which does not have a .d/ yet? :-)
[10:59] <cjwatson> xnox: Yes, it does
[10:59] <cjwatson> cjwatson@sid-systemd-amd64:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/ssh restart
[10:59] <cjwatson> Restarting ssh (via systemctl): ssh.service.
[11:00] <xnox> excellent!
[11:00] <cjwatson> (OK, that's on Debian)
[11:00] <pitti> xnox: still want me to test? (need to reboot, currently running upstart as I'm working with LXC)
[11:01] <cjwatson> My Xen guest is only good for server-ish testing, but useful for what I need
[11:02] <xnox> pitti: i think it's fine. no need.
[11:04] <doko> jamespage, if you didn't see it, the maven mess is just caused by easymock's b-d objenesis
[11:05] <pitti> xnox: tested with udev and ssh, works fie
[11:05] <pitti> xnox: fine, too
[11:05] <jamespage> doko, I did but I've not had time to look yet
[11:06] <pitti> xnox: (VMs for the win :) )
[11:16] <ypwong> rrect
[12:01] <pitti> ara: FYI, test-building a fix now
[12:18] <pitti> ara: working well
[13:56] <jhenke> hi, is somebody willing to sync the efibootmgr package with debian? 0.6.1-3 got into testing shortly after the intial utopic sync, ubuntu is still with the old major release 0.5.4-7ubuntu1
[13:57] <jhenke> which would also resolve the delta btw, as the patch was applied upstrem in 0.6.0 release
[14:16] <doko> apw, supermin ftbfs on armhf
[14:31] <pitti> does anyone know how "rtc" gets into /etc/modules? I don't see it in kmod or any postinst on my system
[14:31] <pitti> rtc isn't a module any more, so startup barfs on that
[14:31] <pitti> cjwatson, apw, xnox ^ do you happen to have an off-hand idea?
[14:31] <cjwatson> hw-detect
[14:31] <cjwatson> ./hw-detect.sh:164:get_rtc_info() {
[14:31] <cjwatson> ./hw-detect.sh:168:             amd64/*) register-module rtc ;;
[14:31] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks!
[14:34] <pitti> cjwatson: so I suppose this should maybe check "modinfo rtc" before it adds that, or should it go completely?
[14:34] <apw> doko, i will ahve a look next, just fixing up ruby-kgio
[14:37] <apw> pitti, uggg, are you saying that if someone puts something in /etc/modules and we change that module to builtin their machine will no longer boot ?
[14:37] <apw> pitti, that sounds like we should fix whatever loads them ?
[14:37] <pitti> apw: no no, it still boots
[14:38] <pitti> apw: but that unit shows a failure in systemctl status, which looks ugly
[14:38] <apw> oh didums :)
[14:38] <apw> well i guess that is good, so we find it
[14:38] <pitti> apw: cjwatson already pointed out where it's from
[14:38] <apw> but then again is it a failure, to not load ... as you can't remove it in case they run older kernels no ?
[14:38] <apw> or at least for "some time"
[14:39] <cjwatson> pitti: We could probably just remove it from hw-detect if it's gone permanently from the kernel (and not just a config change or whatever), but we'll need to handle it on upgrades as well since hw-detect is an installer component
[14:39] <pitti> apw: I think we already didn't have it in trusty, did we?
[14:39] <pitti> apw: anyway, it's mostly a cosmetical problem, but it seems odd to try and load a module which we don't even ship
[14:39] <cjwatson> well, arguably need to handle it on upgrades
[14:40] <pitti> ah, that too
[14:40] <pitti> or we silence the unit to ignore missing modules
[14:40] <cjwatson> That seems suboptimal - it's probably good typo detection
[14:40] <pitti> but that makes real bugs harder to detect
[14:41] <apw> pitti, yeah its likely anchient
[14:43] <pitti> our kmod.conf just does
[14:43] <pitti> modprobe $module $args || :
[14:43] <pitti> and indeed /var/log/upstart/kmod.log has similar FATAL messages
[14:43] <apw> we like fatal messages
[14:44] <cjwatson> We could ignore named ones, or (probably better) remove them on upgrade of $some_package
[14:45] <pitti> cjwatson: $some_package == kmod perhaps?
[14:46] <pitti> that seems like the closest one
[14:48] <cjwatson> seems plausible
[14:48] <cjwatson> I guess the idea is let's keep the compatibility crud out of runtime paths
[14:48] <pitti> ack, will file bugs etc. later, need to run now (train arriving)
[14:51] <tkamppeter> pitti, which entry do I need to add to the AppArmor profile to silence the audit messages in bug 1314160?
[16:05] <smoser> anyone on sru team care to comment on this...
[16:05] <smoser> bug 1185756 was released to -updates
[16:05] <smoser> but it was not fully fixed.
[16:05] <smoser> does it require a new bug ? for SRU of the change ?
[16:22] <smoser> crickets
[16:22] <smoser> infinity, ^ you have thoughts on that ? Daviey ?
[16:40] <smb> smoser, If there is no clean way otherwise, I guess we could open our own bug with "drbd backport causes regressions" and I create a new source package referring to that one
[16:58] <jhenke> Hi, I would like to ask for a sync of the efibootmgr package with Debian. Debian got a new upstream version into testing shortly after the intial utopic sync. That would bring Ubuntu back to the Debian version, as the only diff has been applied upstream in the new version.
[17:05] <cjwatson> jhenke: done
[17:29] <jhenke> cjwatson thanks
[17:37] <stgraber> ScottK: edubuntu-server is now in the release pocket
[18:37] <bdmurray> pitti: why is gvfs being SRU'ed to trusty? there is no bug reference
[19:18] <mitya57> infinity: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746278#12
[20:59] <ng1002> Question: Is there a terminal command I can use to launch Gnome3's dash?
[23:12] <ScottK> stgraber: Thanks.


[12:46] <limi> welcome, earthlings
[12:46] <carlos> stub: did you found the problem with the sqlobject updates?
[12:48] <lalo> what sqlo problem? :-)
[12:48] <stub> carlos: Found two problems. I have fixed one (SQLOS only registering itself with the transaction it was created in, not subsequent transactions), and need to work out the best way of fixing the other (transaction isolation levels mean connections don't see changes made in other handler threads until they too have begun a new transaction, which doesn't happen)
[12:49] <stub> The first fix has not been migrated in yet
[12:49] <carlos> ok
[02:51] <stub> Transaction problems should be nailed as soon as PQM picks up the patch
[02:56] <andrewv> stub: whoo hoo!
[02:56] <andrewv> what was the problem?
[02:58] <limi> andrewv / stub: can we standardize on 4 spaces and no tabs for indenting? ;)
[02:58] <andrewv> in page templates?
[02:59] <limi> yes
[02:59] <stub> I'll reconfigure my '2 space indent' defaults for html and xml
[02:59] <limi> in python too ;)
[02:59] <andrewv> sure
[02:59] <andrewv> i was just checking - i thought all of our python would be 4 spaces
[02:59] <limi> yup
[02:59] <limi> like Guido indented it
[03:00] <stub> I'll run reindent.py on stuff I find that doesn't ;)
[03:00] <limi> thanks
[03:00] <andrewv> i do sometimes use 2 spaces on html just because it can get very, very indented
[03:00] <limi> it's just because I am anal enough to always have to fix it when I see it ;)
[03:00] <andrewv> lol
[03:00] <limi> if it wasn't for me, it wouldn't matter
[03:01] <andrewv> stub and i have slightly different indenting styles in python
[03:01] <stub> limi: As long as you don't mind me trimming your >80 column lines
[03:01] <andrewv> if you look at the malone code you can spot whodid what
[03:03] <andrewv> as long as there aren't tabs or >80 i'm pretty relaxed
[03:06] <limi> hence the anal retentiveness of the code display
[03:06] <limi> ;)
[03:07] <limi> we could go for 2 spaces as indents if you think it would help, but there will be lots of cases where you exceed 80 columns anyway
[03:07] <daf> Limi the Amazing Grumpy Swearing Norwegian :)
[03:08] <limi> hehe
[03:08] <carlos> only 2 spaces?
[03:08] <carlos> please not!!
[03:08] <limi> finally some support ;)
[03:09] <daf> 2 space indentation is wrong
[03:09] <daf> I can live with 4
[03:09] <daf> I don't like really long lines either
[03:09] <limi> ...but you prefer 3?
[03:09] <limi> :]
[03:10] <daf> no, I want pi spaces :)
[03:10] <carlos> daf: X-)
[03:11] <daf> I just want a terminal emulator that can display characters with irrational sizes
[03:12] <carlos> daf: did you found your brain? Are you awake?
[03:12] <carlos> X-)
[03:12] <limi> irrational sizes like in "2i"?
[03:12] <limi> imaginary sizes for xterm NOW!
[03:13] <daf> limi: no, that's for indenting imaginary code :)
[03:16] <stub> Anyone had a patch go through PQM recently?
[03:20] <carlos> stub: the commit logs shows that last one was from about 30 minutes ago
[03:31] <daf> lalo: is there ever a situation where we would want to call makeMessageSet with update=False?
[03:34] <lalo> let me check
[03:35] <lalo> not AFAIK, but we can't remove the argument, Mark made quite a point on it :-)
[03:35] <daf> the only difference it makes that update=True means that the prior existance check is waived
[03:35] <daf> why not?
[03:35] <lalo> consistency
[03:35] <daf> with what?
[03:35] <lalo> we're in the wrong chanel
[03:36] <daf> let's not worry about that
[03:39] <limi> daf: the xtal trick is actually very useful
[03:40] <limi> should almost be an official policy :)
[03:40] <daf> heh :)
[03:40] <limi> that way I can write pseudoTAL into templates without them breaking
[03:40] <limi> so it's easier for you guys to see how I envision the repeats etc
[03:46] <justdave> if I have a .pyc file is it possible to turn that back into a .py?
[03:48] <justdave> I got bitten by arch
[03:49] <justdave> did a tla add on a file, then decided I didn't want to add it yet, and tried to figure out how to undo it.  opposite of tla add?  tla rm.  except it actually nukes the file instead of just taking it out of arch control.
[03:55] <SteveA> stub: got a few mins to talk to run|osx?
[03:56] <stub> SteveA: Sure
[03:56] <SteveA> stub: /join #sqlos
[04:43] <daf> lalo: thanks for the tea
[04:44] <lalo> np
[04:54] <limi> I love that you guys thank eachother on IRC instead of saying "thank you" when the tea is delivered ;)
[04:59] <daf> lalo<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has the (ahem) interesting refactoring work


[00:01] <Rhamphoryncus> Oh hey, it is done scanning :D
[00:01] <Ursinha> assim?
[00:21] <mpt> ScottK, I'm glad you like Launchpad without CSS, I went to quite a bit of trouble to make that nicer :-)
[00:57] <ScottK> mpt: Now if you could just get Bug #59510 taken care of we'd be in business.
[02:20] <Hobbsee> Rinchen: and when will this miniumal UI actually get implemented?
[02:22] <Hobbsee> geser: you're not alone, re the quick searches.
[02:23] <Hobbsee> geser: some projects are listed as you, along with all other motu's, because some strange nitwit decided to subscribe/assign motu to some non-ubuntu bugs.
[02:27] <Hobbsee> and while they got marked as invalid / unsubscribed, the damage is still done, and the projects will probably be there, unless the MOTU team dies, or you quit it
[02:27] <Hobbsee> Rinchen: there are a lot of things that are going to get implemented at some point.  But now we don't have a simple UI where people could find stuff, and get stuff done.
[02:29] <LaserJock> well, I can find stuff and get stuff done
[02:29] <LaserJock> it could just be better
[02:39] <emgent> moin
[07:12] <Hobbsee> ARGH!
[07:12]  * Hobbsee is so utterly damned confused now
[07:12] <Hobbsee> how do i get where i want to go?
[07:12] <spiv> Hobbsee: you sound a little... on edge.
[07:13] <spiv> (ba-dum tish!)
[07:13] <Hobbsee> spiv: yeah, i'm attempting to use the bug page.
[07:13]  * Hobbsee wonders why assigned to is smaller than the section for milestone
[07:14] <Hobbsee> spiv: even production won't be safe in a couple of days :(
[07:16]  * Hobbsee gets lost among all the tabs and breadcrums, to the point of finding how to go back to the bug list, from a particular bug, is hard.  :(
[07:17] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: what you don't have the URL memorized? :-)
[07:17] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i didn't bother using my shortcut, no.
[07:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: the new 'features' of that page tend to throw all logic otu the window, leaving a remaining small cry of "i should know how to use this.  i feel stupid.  but it's so confusing"
[07:19] <LaserJock> do we need a Launchpad support group?
[07:19] <Hobbsee> depends how bad the UI gets...
[07:19] <LaserJock> "hi, my name is Jordan and I'm confused by Launchpad, it's been 5 months since I last knew how to use the UI" ;p
[07:20] <Hobbsee> heirachy is really hard, when some of it is breadcrumbs, which is left justified, and some of it is tabs, which is center.
[07:20] <Hobbsee> i can't tell which is more important anymore
[07:20] <nycerine> personally I think the tabs take too much space (if we're into them at the moment)
[07:22] <Hobbsee> i'm just finding the same things in multiple places - or at least, i think they are, but everything keeps changing so much that i don't know what's right and wrong to click anymore, and i can't use a sense of logic, as that would tell me that the functions would all be in a list on the page somewhere - but they're not - they're randomly around the page.
[07:22] <Hobbsee> So i'm really just going mad.
[07:23] <LaserJock> we knew that already ... ;-)
[07:23] <Hobbsee> yeah well.  mad faster, then.
[07:23] <nycerine> could it be an idea to change the appearance of the tabs?
[07:26] <thekorn> In my opinion the biggest problem is that all pages lost a lot of contrast,
[07:26] <thekorn> there is no clear difference between content and functionality
[07:35] <nycerine> contact details should be on the right of the "most active", "latest memberships" and "bragging rights"
[07:35] <nycerine> it takes up so much space
[07:38] <capiscuas1982> hi everybody, in my launchpad project only the admin can upload files into the project, how to let the drivers also upload?
[07:46] <jamesh> capiscuas1982: try changing ownership of the project to a team that you can add other LP users to
[07:54] <capiscuas1982> james: i'm afraid that giving the ownership of a whole team i'll be giving people right to change the ownership again and kick us out :-)
[07:57] <jamesh> capiscuas1982: well, if you don't trust the people to help you run the project, why would you trust them to add files for download?
[08:10] <capiscuas1982> jamesh: thanks, i've added those that i trust the most in a mantainer group, anyway I wish that launchpad has an option to just control who can upload files without the need of giving full privileges
[08:51] <bca_> hi there,
[08:53] <bca_> i have got a problem with my launchpad account, when I try to log in, it tells me that "This account
[08:53] <bca_> cannot be used". When I got to my project page and click on my username, it tells me that "bertrand.cachet does not use Launchpad".
[08:53] <bca_> I really don't know how to solve this issue,
[08:53] <bca_> I have found no information on google except a web page on ubuntu forum that tells that if we encounters this problem, we should go to IRC to ask for some help
[09:30]  * wgrant prefers the short-lived logo favicon.
[10:39] <bca_> hi, does somebody have information about my problem: I have got the message "This account cannot be used" when I try to login
[10:39] <bca_> ?
[10:44] <wgrant> bca_: You need a Launchpad person to fix your account. I'm not sure that anybody who can fix it is around right now.
[10:44] <bca_> ok
[10:44] <intellectronica> bca_: what's your launchpad username?
[10:44] <Peng> bca_: Did you change your email address? That's one cause.
[10:44] <Peng> Has that been fixed yet?
[10:44] <bca_> bertrand.cachet
[10:45] <bca_> i have this problem for 3 weeks no
[10:45] <bca_> i have readen on ubuntu forums that this problem sometimes appear and disappear
[10:45] <bca_> so i have waited a little bit
[10:45]  * wgrant wonders why all of the accounts weren't fixed at once.
[10:46] <bca_> but now, it is a bit long with no changement
[10:46] <bca_> that's why i ask for some help
[10:46] <intellectronica> bca_: are you sure? i mean that thing that appears at the end of launchpad.net/~yourusername
[10:46] <bca_> have a try if you want
[10:47] <intellectronica> bca_: ah right, found it, it appears with a hyphen in the url
[10:47] <intellectronica> bca_: this has been a recurring problem lately and we're working on fixing it. i'll make sure that someone fixes your account soon
[10:47] <bca_> https://launchpad.net/~bertrand-cachet
[10:48] <bca_> thanks a lot intellectronica
[10:48] <intellectronica> bca_: np. sorry for the inconvenience
[10:48] <bca_> i have added a comment onto the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/245584
[10:48] <bca_> because it is more or less the same
[10:55] <stub> bca_: It is the same, and I've fixed it for you in the database.
[10:56] <stub> There is a code fix already made allowing people to reclaim accounts in this state, but I don't think it is available on the main site yet.
[10:58] <bca_> stub: perfect
[10:58] <bca_> i can now loggin
[10:58] <bca_> thanks a lot
[10:59] <LaserJock> stub: is there no way to spot the problem in the database and fix it automatically?
[11:02] <stub> IIRC it isn't a problem, rather than a fix. These are accounts that have been flagged as unwanted, and now we are paying much more attention to that flag. If the accounts where flagged incorrectly, I have no way of telling them apart from the genuine ones.
[11:04] <wgrant> I thought there was some bogus email address change handling which resulted in them being deactivated...
[11:04] <stub> Maybe - I haven't been following in detail.
[11:05] <wgrant> Or is this not bug #244499 which sinzui was talking about with you?
[12:14] <Laibsch> Hi
[12:14] <Laibsch> we are trying to evaluate Rosetta for gnucash translations
[12:14] <Laibsch> Thank you for the support so far
[12:15] <Laibsch> I am not well-versed in the management of translations at all
[12:15] <Laibsch> I have gotten a question from the current technical maintainer relating to pot, po and the source code itself
[12:16] <Laibsch> Can somebody please point me to some information where I can quickly understand how those three entities relate?
[12:16] <Laibsch> My current understanding: pot equates to a collection of translation tasks
[12:16] <intellectronica> jtv or danilos should be able to help
[12:16] <Laibsch> po is the results where the tasks are finished
[12:17] <Laibsch> how does the source code play into this?
[12:17] <Laibsch> intellectronica: thanks for the pointer to the right people
[12:17] <Laibsch> ping jtv and danilos
[12:21]  * Laibsch is reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettext
[12:21] <Laibsch> and understands much better now
[12:22] <Laibsch> I guess the question is, can rosetta be told to run xgettext to create the .pot file itself?
[12:32] <zeth> Hello, is it possible to checkout code from a launchpad project using subversion?
[12:33] <intellectronica> zeth: no, you'll have to use bzr
[12:34] <intellectronica> it should be very easy to adjust, though
[12:34] <zeth> well its not that, I like bzr
[12:34] <zeth> it is just that I have a project I want to host
[12:35] <zeth> and it has a few dependencies from else where that are checked out via svn
[12:35] <zeth> so it is nicer if the whole thing works using one client
[12:35] <zeth> also, bzr requires Python 2.4
[12:36] <intellectronica> zeth: maybe import those projects into launchpad?
[12:36] <zeth> Django and docutils?
[12:36] <intellectronica> zeth: why not. it would be good to have those projects in lp. they are both quite popular so i bet many people would benefit from that
[12:37] <zeth> well
[12:37] <zeth> making people require Python 2.4 is still a bit much
[12:37] <intellectronica> zeth: also, there's a bzr plugin to work with subversion repositories. i don't know how good it is, though
[12:37] <zeth> anyhow, I have written a website generation tool
[12:37] <intellectronica> zeth: python 2.4 is nearly 4 years old. what system is that which doesn't have it yet?
[12:38] <zeth> OS X Tiger
[12:38] <intellectronica> really? they don't ship with python 2.4? and is it not possible to upgrade?
[12:38] <zeth> I would like to support as many systems as possible with the lease work for the user as possible
[12:38] <zeth> OS X Leopard ( the latest) comes with 2.5.something
[12:38] <zeth> but OS.X Tiger is not that ols
[12:38] <zeth> old
[12:40] <intellectronica> anyway, nothing much that can be done about this. LP only hosts bzr branches. but you can host subversion or cvs branches elsewhere and have them imported automatically
[12:41] <zeth> So basically, my website generation tool should be usable by less technically saavy users, not just hardcore geeks
[12:42] <zeth> launchpad is nice looking project site, but I don't want to increase the system requirements of my potential users
[12:42] <wgrant> Python 2.4 can't be an increase in requirements on any sane system...
[12:42] <zeth> if bzr allowed one to check out svn by default, that would be more compelling
[12:42] <wgrant> It has been available on everything for years and years!
[12:42] <zeth> wgrant: OS X Tiger is a sane system
[12:43] <wgrant> zeth: The bzr-svn allows you to do that excellently.
[12:43] <wgrant> zeth: Not if it doesn't have Python.
[12:43] <zeth> a lot of Red hat servers also still also have Python 2.3
[12:43] <zeth> OS X Tiger (10.4) came with Python 2.3
[12:43] <zeth> OS X Leopard (10.5) came with Python 2.5
[12:43] <wgrant> But RHEL is implicitly prehistoric... can its Subversion read your repository?
[12:44] <zeth> wgrant: good point
[12:44] <zeth> no idea
[12:44] <intellectronica> on _some_ operating systems, you get upgraded to the latest version of those tools no matter when you first installed it ;)
[12:44] <zeth> My tool is currently on my hard drive and no where else
[12:44] <zeth> yeah on decent OS
[12:44] <zeth> bu on Apple, you get what Apple gives
[12:45] <wgrant> Or you install trivially from python.org...
[12:45] <zeth> and they sadly don't push Python updates down the upgrade tool
[12:45] <zeth> you and I can
[12:45] <zeth> but my website generation tool is aimed at wider audience
[12:46] <intellectronica> zeth: python being free software, you can always bundle it with your app. it's not very big, considering the sizes of downloads people are accustomed to these days
[12:46] <wgrant> If they're building a website and using Subversion (why would they be using a VCS rather than downloading a release?), they can probably install Python too.
[12:46] <zeth> intellectronica: that is true actually
[12:47] <zeth> wgrant: well my manual tells them what commands to paste in
[12:48] <zeth> I was interested in using Launchpad because it is the only open source project hosting site I have seen so far that does not look butt ugly
[12:50] <intellectronica> zeth: hopefully you'll also find it to be powerful and easy to use. give it a try - if you absolutely have to use subversion, you can always host the code elsewhere and have it imported automatically into launchpad
[12:51] <zeth> well, I actually use bzr at the moment for development, but I just want to be able to export the code somehow via subversion
[12:51] <zeth> is there someway of going bzr > launchpad > *somewhere* > subversion ?
[12:51] <wgrant> A more normal situation is to have users download a release, rather than checkout from the likely unstable VCS.
[12:51] <intellectronica> zeth: you can use the bzr svn plugin to do that
[12:52] <wgrant> But intellectronica is correct - bzr-svn will let you push to a Subversion repository.
[12:52] <zeth> wgrant: it would, but the deps change too much
[12:52] <wgrant> zeth: How does a VCS help that?
[12:52] <zeth> wgrant: and i am lazy, I don't want to go and find out how to package for OS X and Windows
[12:53] <zeth> well, I get the users to have a project directory
[12:53] <wgrant> A tarball?
[12:53] <wgrant> No worse than a VCS checkout.
[12:53] <zeth> which has inside the deps and my app
[12:53] <zeth> they can just use svn up
[12:54] <zeth> wgrant: maybe a tarball
[12:54] <zeth> but I don't want to distribute the deps
[12:54] <zeth> I think my current approach is okay compromise
[12:56] <zeth> so bzr-svn is pushing from my local computer to subversion repositry?
[12:56] <zeth> not from launchpad?
[12:58] <intellectronica> zeth: correct
[12:58] <LarstiQ> zeth: hello :)
[12:59] <zeth> Hi!
[13:01] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[13:01] <LarstiQ> zeth: I thought you might be the same person who asked for session chairs at EP, and indeed, I still only know 1 zeth so far ;)
[13:02] <wgrant> Evening mpt.
[13:03] <emgent> heya wgrant :)
[13:03] <mpt> wgrant, how went the bug reporting?
[13:03] <emgent> someone know why some task opened and some nominated ?
[13:03] <emgent> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/248674
[13:04] <emgent> weird.
[13:04] <zeth> LarstiQ: same zeth
[13:04] <zeth> I only know 1 zeth also
[13:04] <wgrant> emgent: You probably only have privileges over the Dapper and Feisty versions.
[13:04] <wgrant> Indeed, it is in main in Hardy and Gutsy.
[13:04] <emgent> wgrant: i'm motu.
[13:04] <zeth> if one can actually know oneself
[13:04] <\sh> emgent: IMHO ffmpeg is now main, and not universe/multiverse anymore
[13:04] <wgrant> So you have no privilege.s
[13:05] <emgent> argh
[13:05] <zeth> LarstiQ: who are you, I can't guess from your username sorry
[13:05] <emgent> ok nice.
[13:05] <emgent> and ffmpeg-free is in universe
[13:05] <emgent> true ?
[13:06] <emgent> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ffmpeg
[13:06] <emgent> i saw universe.
[13:06] <LarstiQ> zeth: you asked on Sunday evening in the Reval lobby iirc, I was sitting at a table with Tommi Virtanen and Chris Scholz. Oh, and I declined chairing due to possible video recording and Guido's slide turning.
[13:06] <\sh> intrepid  	development  	main  	release  	3:0.svn20080206-8ubuntu1   	 None defined
[13:07] <\sh> emgent: also main
[13:07] <emgent> ok thanks \sh
[13:07] <\sh> emgent: talk to siretart :)
[13:07] <wgrant> emgent: Don't use packages.ubuntu.com - it's often out of date, wrong, or generally misleading.
[13:08] <wgrant> cprov: I don't like this new link to the .changes on PPAs...
[13:08] <carlos> hi
[13:08] <zeth> LarstiQ: ah yes, I remember
[13:08] <carlos> mpt: ping
[13:08] <zeth> some of the organisation was a bit just-in-time
[13:08]  * Hobbsee waves
[13:08] <Hobbsee> wgrant: is this the one i couldnt' find a few days ago?
[13:09] <LarstiQ> zeth: quite :)
[13:09] <wgrant> Hobbsee: It's the one that you shouldn't be able to find at all, lest horrible horrible things happen.
[13:09] <geser> emgent: check the source package and not a binary one, as source can be in main but the binary in universe
[13:09] <zeth> lots of assumptions seem to have been made about who was organising what
[13:09] <Hobbsee> wgrant: oh, lovely.  i wonder where it is now..
[13:10] <zeth> I think people assumed the Lithuanians knew telepathically what had happened in previous years
[13:10] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[13:10] <Hobbsee> heya geser
[13:10] <zeth> this was my first europython also
[13:10] <emgent> geser: thanks
[13:10] <Hobbsee> wgrant: WOW.  classy on oh so many levels.
[13:10] <zeth> next year is different because it follows on from  UK events in the same venue
[13:11] <Hobbsee> that really is....spectacularly good.
[13:11] <zeth> so everyone *should* know what to do hopefully
[13:11] <wgrant> Ah.
[13:11] <wgrant> It's only for one's own uploads.
[13:11] <wgrant> But still revealing.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> well it would be nice if they removed the typo, too
[13:12] <wgrant> Which?
[13:12] <Hobbsee> well, 'changesfile' is usually spelt as 'changes file'
[13:12] <wgrant> The absence of space is not just there - I presume it to be intentional.
[13:13] <wgrant> (it's on normal SPR pages as well)
[13:13] <Hobbsee> it's still a bug - launchpad really should be aiming for readable, and giving correct english.
[13:14] <wgrant> I'm never sure how to best phrase it. changes file? .changes? change file? Urgh.
[13:14] <Hobbsee> changes file, i'd expect.
[13:14] <Hobbsee> seeing as there are usually multiple changes
[13:14] <wgrant> I guess so.
[13:22] <siretart> \sh: ?
[13:22] <\sh> siretart: ffmpeg and security -> emgent :)
[13:23] <emgent> siretart: check your mail
[13:23] <emgent> :)
[13:28] <zeth> okay, so I provide bzr checkout through a launchpad site, and I use the bzr-svn thing to mirror the repo somewhere
[13:31] <zeth> I think it would be better if launchpad exported in several formats, but the bzr svn thing should work
[13:43] <mpt> Hobbsee, there is no minimal UI planned
[13:43] <mpt> but we're publishing APIs to let people write their own clients
[13:43] <Hobbsee> mpt: why did Rinchen say there would be, then?
[13:44] <mpt> and their own interfaces
[13:48] <pep> Hi
[13:48] <pep> I'm just wondering if it is my browser that bugs or if there is no more drop down menu in the new UI... ?
[13:49] <pep> when you hover on the launchpad button on the left
[13:49] <pep> in edge
[13:49] <andrea-bs> pep: this is the expected behavior
[13:49] <pep> thank you.
[13:50] <wgrant> How does one navigate now?
[13:50] <Hobbsee> one memorises all the URL's?
[13:50] <pep> then I wonder... how do you access /people, /projects, /sprints or /distros ?
[13:50] <wgrant> How does one discover the URLs without checking the source or pre-1.0?
[13:50] <wgrant> pep: Magic, see.
[13:51] <wgrant> mpt: Any ideas?
[13:51] <pep> you have to do a fake search or click on register to get the menu on the right as far as I found out ...
[13:51] <Hobbsee> why are there no links back to launchpad.net, at all?
[13:51] <pep> which is not realy very handy when you're loking for a team, person or interested on sprints (as project search is on the front page)
[13:52] <pep> Hobbsee: click on the top-left launchpad icon
[13:52] <pep> should go back to launchpad.net
[13:52] <Hobbsee> pep: i did.  it doesn't.
[13:52] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Does it go to the application home?
[13:52] <mpt> Hobbsee, I'm fixing that today
[13:52] <Hobbsee> and why does https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/ get a "Projects" breadcrumb, yet the others don't?
[13:52] <Hobbsee> mpt: oh goody
[13:52] <pep> Hobbsee: the others do here :/
[13:53] <wgrant> PillarNames stuffing up the context? How odd.
[13:57] <pep> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/172727 this is the bug in question.
[13:57] <pep> and taht was with the drop-down menu...
[13:58] <mpt> pep, I did a fix yesterday that provides access to /people
[13:58] <pep> Oh right
[13:58] <pep> is it already in staging?
[13:58] <mpt> pep, /sprints can be accessed from the Blueprints front page ("Show all sprints and meetings") -- that's not obvious, but it's about as obvious as the menu was
[13:59] <mpt> Can you give an example of why you'd want to go to /projects or /distros that doesn't involve searching for one?
[14:00] <pep> well /projects is ok, but when you search for a distro, what do you do?
[14:00] <pep> search for it in the projects search box?
[14:01] <pep> I actually had the problem when I wanted to search for a person/team
[14:02] <pep> but you say it's fiwed so not a problem anymore
[14:02] <pep> I just thought if someone wants to search for a distro he'll have the same problem.
[14:03] <mpt> pep, yes, for example <https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/?text=debian>
[14:03] <pep> ok I see
[14:04] <pep> i suppose from a launchpad point of view a distro is a project
[14:05] <pep> thanks for the info
[14:05] <mpt> pep, we do treat distributions specially (that's why it has a different icon in those search results), but we recognize that people shouldn't need to go to a different page before searching for them
[14:05] <pep> yes
[14:06] <wgrant> mpt: So to search for a distro, one can use the project search, but to add a distro bugtask one cannot use the project button?
[14:06] <pep> I suppose someone who is not familiar with the project will first search for it as a project so it's ok
[14:09] <mpt> wgrant, nag your friendly local Launchpad Bugs developer to fix bug 1334
[14:09] <mpt> wgrant, but that that bug isn't fixed yet isn't a reason to make searching for distributions more difficult.
[14:09] <wgrant> After that long? I doubt it.
[14:09] <wgrant> Although I did see that bug #7 is targetted to 1.99..
[14:10] <wgrant> mpt: Gecko 1.9's zoom functionality introduces significant artifacts in the new LP header.
[14:10] <wgrant> This is probably a bad thing.
[14:11] <mpt> wgrant, also on my list for fixing today (it's worse in FF2)
[14:11] <pep> Oh, and I had an unimportant question, just informative, how are projects selected to be in the "Featured projects" list on the main page? Just 17 most active/major projects?
[14:11] <wgrant> mpt: So I saw.
[14:11] <mpt> oh?
[14:11] <wgrant> mpt: The FF2 thing.
[14:12] <mpt> When did you see it?
[14:12] <wgrant> You filed a bug about it.
[14:13] <mpt> well, sure
[14:13] <mpt> pep, I don't know the answer to that sorry. I know the choice is manual, though.
[14:14] <pep> Ok, I guess it's just the most notorious projects.. only wondering :)
[14:15] <Hobbsee> aiee aiee aieee
[14:15] <mpt> pep, and to answer your earlier question, no, the People fix is not on staging yet
[14:15] <Hobbsee> mpt: where do i nominate things for releases now?
[14:15] <Hobbsee> can i?
[14:16]  * Hobbsee is attempting *not* to use the page find.
[14:16] <mpt> Hobbsee, erm, I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed at all
[14:16] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Right underneath the task table.
[14:16] <wgrant> Right-hand link.
[14:16] <Hobbsee> oh
[14:16] <Hobbsee> mpt: i probalby haven't used it since it moved otu of the actions menu
[14:16] <mpt> ah
[14:26] <pep> mpt: I am working on a website, a repository of marketing resources and artwork for ubuntu, via the marketing team, and I am very concerned about UI and usability... I just watched your Usability.odp and found it very interesting!
[14:26] <pep> :query linuxcrypt
[14:26] <pep> oops
[14:30] <pep> back, sorry about that.
[14:31] <mpt> pep, heh, I'd forgotten about that
[14:31] <mpt> That was a quick talk I gave at UDS in Boston
[14:31] <pep> yes I liked it very much because I am precisely trying to make my point about this idea of simplicity
[14:31] <pep> in the development team that is
[14:36] <pep> phew, don't know what's wrong with my connection today...
[14:36] <pep> mpt: I know you're not into the subject, and probably don't have much time, but if you wish you can take a look at my design proposal here http://tinyurl.com/5kue58, it goes aside with the classification system proposal but that's not important... this is a "very quick" mockup http://dicidailleurs.houbsi.org/uploads/file/mockup.png just to show the idea... does it seem ok to you at first look? (it's the first draft)
[14:38] <mpt> pep, just by glancing at it, I don't understand what it's for
[14:38] <pep> yeah, you've got to be into the subject I suppose :)
[14:38] <mpt> A catalogue of marketing documents?
[14:38] <pep> yes
[14:38] <pep> sort of
[14:39] <pep> you can upoad your documents, it is linked with launchpad for translation and review, etc...
[14:40] <pep> and this is basically just what the end-user sees on the website, the idea as an upload and a download section only, with a filter search box... keeping it simple
[14:41] <pep> but nevermind :)
[14:41] <mpt> ok
[14:41] <mpt> So just a couple of quick suggestions
[14:42] <mpt> You have enough columns that you probably want to use the full page width, so try to get rid of the "Links" column
[14:42] <mpt> and also consider whether some of the columns could be replaced by text in a secondary row for each item.
[14:43] <pep> I see yes, so not primary classification criteria
[14:44] <pep> yes, it's all a bit jammed up
[14:46] <pep> I am also wondering if we should do it in this typical ubuntu theme or in the same color scheme as launchpad, but that's not a real question now :) thanks
[15:05] <Rinchen> Hobbsee, I didn't say there would be.  I said we're thinking about it.
[15:05] <Hobbsee> Rinchen: ah.  i must have misread, sorry.
[15:05] <Rinchen> we've been thinking about it for a while actually.  I hope we do it.
[15:07] <Hobbsee> i hope so too
[16:23] <cprov> wgrant: why ?
[17:48] <jkakar> I miss the 'Simon Says' favicon.  The new one is boring. :)
[17:48] <jkakar> Also, I'm really enjoying the new user interface... there's a bit of adjustment time going on, as expect with these kinds of changes, but it really is better.
[17:56] <pep> I agree in both points :)
[17:58] <pep> mpt: I just re-made a mockup, taking care of your suggestions, I didn't take the time to put content in though, but it's not hard to imagine... if you've got a 20 seconds, please take a look and tell me if it's better or not like this: http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/692/mockup3ok0.png
[17:59] <mpt> pep, +1
[18:00] <pep> thanks ;)
[18:03] <stgraber> pep: the search field looks weird, why having it centered ?
[18:03] <pep> stgraber: why not
[18:03] <pep> ?
[18:04] <stgraber> don't know, it's not where I'd look for it :)
[18:04] <pep> I put it on the right first, but that made a white gap in the middle, which didn't look nice.. then I thought that we want toimplement openID, so I put the openId on the right and the search in the center...
[18:05] <pep> stgraber: http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3666/mockup4hr3.png I put it on the right here
[18:06] <pep> (and forgot openID I just noticed... not sure where I'd put it...)
[18:07] <stgraber> looks better, I guess it's just the habit to see the search field on the top-right corner :)
[18:08] <LaserJock> hmm, I like them top left ...
[18:08] <pep> well I can put the tabs on the right...
[18:09] <pep> that gave me an idea :)
[18:14] <pep> LaserJock: http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3948/mockup5ax5.png what do you think of this? search bar on the left... but white gap in the middle...
[18:16] <LaserJock> pep: I personally like that one the best, but it may be just me
[18:16] <pep> ok, thanks for your opinion
[19:01] <oliver_g_> hi
[19:01] <oliver_g_> is there a way to configure LP so that it by default also shows bugs that are marked as Invalid?
[19:09] <LaserJock> oliver_g_: not by default, you'll need to use the advanced search function
[19:09] <oliver_g_> LaserJock: ok, thanks
[20:02] <newz2000> hi, someone has contacted me about a problem with their launchpad details (they need to change their wiki page). What's the best way for them to ask for help with this?
[20:02] <newz2000> ah, just found it
[20:03] <andrea-bs> newz2000: you may find help.launchpad.net/Feedback useful
[20:03] <newz2000> ok. Thanks.
[23:08] <pygi> any way to change appointed project and team name?
[23:08] <pygi> (from "cheezeburger" to "cheezburger" :)
[23:09] <pygi> and team from cheezeburger-devs to cheezburger-devs :P
[23:09] <wgrant> pygi: You can rename a team like any person, but projects must be done through the admins.
[23:10] <pygi> oki, thanks wgrant, so gotta bug someone then :)
[23:10] <LaserJock> pygi: I can has one? :-)
[23:10] <wgrant> pygi: Ask a question at the answers.launchpad.net URL in the topic.
[23:11] <pygi> thanks wgrant :)
[23:13] <pygi> LaserJock, hehe sure :D
[23:13] <LaserJock> mmmmm, chezburgers
[23:15] <pygi> it's actually a bzr serving magic =)
[23:24] <spm> pygi: that change has been done: https://launchpad.net/cheezburger
[23:24] <pygi> spm, saw it already, that was fast :)
[23:24] <pygi> thank you :)
[23:24] <spm> pygi: my pleasure!
[23:27] <emgent> edge.l.o graphic is final ?
[23:27] <emgent> s/o/n/
[23:37] <pento> Trying to look at a file in the mysql source on launchpad, it's coming up with an error to report it here. So, here I am. :) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1/revision/2512.68.1?filter_file_id=sp1f-mysqlslap.c-20051130000206-7t375hf5mtlqof5xd4nj76yckxvxykhv&file_id=sp1d-client-2kqe24jqdkerkil52x5pqhisz76wzwky
[23:39] <mwhudson> oh yes, that kind of request is very very very slow with branches like mysql :(
[23:40] <pento> Heh, alrighty. Is there a better way I can browse the source tree, then? Other than checking it out?
[23:40] <mwhudson> well, it'
[23:40] <mwhudson> s the 'revision touching the given file' that is slow
[23:41] <mwhudson> browsing around normally should work
[23:43] <pento> Erm, I thought I was browsing normally? From https://code.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1 , click on "Browse code", then click on the "Latest Rev" for any file.
[23:44] <mwhudson> oh, that would be a bug
[23:45] <mwhudson> !
[23:45] <mwhudson> hm
[23:53] <DnaX> hi
[23:53] <mwhudson> hi
[23:54] <DnaX> I have a problem with pot template for traductions in launchpad (sorry for bad english)
[23:55] <DnaX> I upload it but in 5 days is deleted...
[23:55] <DnaX> without motive
[23:56] <DnaX> so?
[23:57] <mwhudson> i'm afraid i don't know much about translations at all
[23:57] <mwhudson> danilos: ping?
[23:58] <DnaX> mwhudson: ok ;)


[00:22] <Aarch64debian> !info get_cpu
[00:22] <Aarch64debian> !info genmon
[01:02] <freetester> hi
[01:02] <freetester> someone here?
[01:04] <freetester> nobody?
[01:05] <iamtheworstdev> union rules - mandatory fifteen minute break on the hour, every hour
[01:05] <freetester> i have some trouble with https://github.com/debauchee/barrier/
[01:05] <iamtheworstdev> have you tried #barrier ?
[01:05] <leftyfb> iamtheworstdev: please don't say things like that
[01:06] <iamtheworstdev> which thing
[01:06] <leftyfb> freetester: that said, you'll have to see support from the barrier project
[01:06] <iamtheworstdev> per their readme, the support is in #barrier
[01:08] <freetester> yes I logged in, but no one answers. That is why I came here to ask
[01:08] <iamtheworstdev> well, it's IRC.. just stay in the channel and someone will likely respond when they see it
[01:08] <leftyfb> freetester: you'll have to wait. We cannot support 3rd party applications here. You could also try #linux
[01:08] <freetester> i am trying to do this on ubuntu, and you are always very supportive.
[01:09] <iamtheworstdev> they may be in a timezone where they are asleep right now
[01:11] <freetester> Okay, I understand. Can I just ask you if you have had any experience with barriers? I have problems with the authentication of certificates but I see that many have it maybe you had a quick tip
[01:11] <freetester> thanks anyway for any answer
[01:21] <spammy> Why is ubuntu not considered fashionable? I happen to like ubuntu a lot. *looks at all the "other" people*
[01:23] <leftyfb> spammy: try #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:23] <WickedDekciw> Hey there. Apologies if it sounds like repeated but it isn't exactly as I've since tried alternative solutions and to no avail. I'm trying to do what should have been a simple task of creating a bootable FreeDOS drive. I've tried UNetbootin, manually copying a raw vhd from the FreeDOS site, manually creating a custom FAT16 partition and adding syslinux data onto it, and Balena Etcher was my last solution. Neither one of them could successfully
[01:23] <WickedDekciw> boot. Does anybody have an actually working alternative/
[01:23] <WickedDekciw> ?
[01:24] <leftyfb> WickedDekciw: your issue really has nothing to do with ubuntu.
[01:25] <WickedDekciw> leftyfb, Well, I suppose it is a question about _tools_ present within the Ubuntu and finding such ones, so it is related
[01:27] <cbreak> WickedDekciw: ubuntu has a startup disk creation tool, which you could try to run
[01:28] <spammy> oh, this is the official support channel, my bad, in that case, I'm having an issue with every time my Ubuntu boots up, it defaults to the wrong microphone. Is there a way to default it to the second microphone? I'm using Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS with Gnome Desktop on X11.
[01:28] <cbreak> usb-creator-kde or usb-creator-gtk
[01:28] <cbreak> there are many other tools, like etcher, that you could also try
[01:29] <leftyfb> cbreak: I'm pretty sure their issue is with creating a "bootable FreeDOS drive". Technology that hasn't seen the light of day in about 20 years
[01:29] <cbreak> spammy: I think I "solved" that by disabling my other "microphone"
[01:30] <cbreak> leftyfb: ah... I read that as "FreeBSD".
[01:30] <spammy> cbreak: so no real "default" per-se, but just disable the one that is taking precedence. I can do that.
[01:30] <cbreak> maybe qemu can do something about freedos... I did get MacOS 9 to run with it
[01:30] <cbreak> spammy: well, there probably is a way to do it, I just couldn't find it
[01:31] <cbreak> I never had that problem since switching to kde from gnome
[01:31] <spammy> Since I don't use the first microphone that is okay, I'll explore that, thanks!
[01:31] <cbreak> (but I don't remember trying to use the microphone since then either... so who knows...)
[01:32] <spammy> (can't unplug it because is is integrated with the webcam)
[01:33] <cbreak> for me, one of the audio outputs is part of my microphone (for live monitoring), and one of the audio inputs is part of my usb DAC, which really isn't a microphone, just misidentified
[01:33] <cbreak> but somewhere in the audio device settings, I was able to fix that by changing the audio profile for each device
[02:11] <Interpol-fresco> hi all
[02:11] <Interpol-fresco> any kuru here ?
[02:14] <Interpol-fresco> how about if i am skraito ?
[02:14] <oerheks> yes
[02:16] <Aarch64debian> lol
[02:27] <mjdxp> hello
[02:49] <freetester> hey guys how to use xorg in 21.10?
[02:49] <freetester> is possible? if yes how i can do it?
[02:51] <oerheks> logout, select the menu right top, change wayland to xorg and login
[04:01] <Guest7275> Hello, does anyone know how to properly download .deb ?
[04:07] <Guest7275> nevermind, i'll post it on the forums.
[04:07] <Bashing-om> guntbert: :)
[05:02] <tebruno99> leftyfb, i guess asking for help using things like dd to make boot disks is a banned topic? Did we diverge from the human condition that We can no longer help one another unless the topic is strictly an issue with Ubuntu's packaging issues?
[05:03] <tebruno99> god forbid someone ask with a broken leg ask for help on a sidewalk,  sidewalks are for walking.
[06:33] <dw1> any way to enable backticks in crontab for 20.04 ?
[06:39] <dw1> i want to avoid gmail conversation view in the cron output email
[06:39] <dw1> using `date` or $(date) or so
[06:40] <dw1> maybe they do work but only send to the command and not the email :/
[06:42] <dw1> yep
[06:42] <dw1> guess i'm SOL
[06:56] <talismanick> Running Ubuntu 20.04 in an LXD container. Ran "dpkg --add-architecture i386" to add 32bit packages, and used that to install some, but "apt install mesa-utils:i386" says it's not found
[06:59] <talismanick> Oh, and lib32 is empty, although "sudo apt install libgl1-mesa-dri:i386" ran successfully
[07:15] <talismanick> nvm, figured it out
[07:53] <amosbird> Hello! How can I start a second Xsession to run ubuntu desktop 20 in docker ?
[08:29] <zamba> why isn't CVE-2021-44224 addressed by ubuntu yet?
[08:29] <zamba> rather: CVE-2021-44790
[08:30] <zamba> ah, mod_lua
[08:47] <weedmic> why does this command return "invalid argument"?  sudo ip addr add brd <IP_ADDRESS> dev eth0
[08:59] <weedmic> nvm - i combined it with the set ip command and it worked there
[09:15] <weedmic> when starting the computer, and i see the list of actions with [  ok  ], is there a way to pause that?
[09:38] <town2017> hi all
[10:33] <Nalarian> hi
[11:09] <troozers> Just noticed the GDM3 is only listing bash users, is there any way to allow other shell users to be shown?
[11:19] <ice9> i created a .desktop file under .config/autostart/ however it doesn't get executed after login...
[11:20] <ice9> it's gdm btw
[11:44] <webchat53> Hi all
[11:48] <wrsuser> hey so I just installed ubuntu on a secure boot enabled machine... and on the first boot up (after install) it gave me a blue MOK management screen
[11:48] <wrsuser> by the time I'd looked up what I'm meant to be pressing here (which I think I now know) it'd given up asking me what to do and just rebooted again, this time straight into ubuntu
[11:49] <wrsuser> presumably skipping this step means the kernel can't be customised (e.g. by things using DKMS)... so how on earth am I meant to get back to it?
[12:00] <webchat53> I have a question is there someone o could help me?
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> !ask | webchat53
[12:05] <webchat53> k thank all my linux computers have a problem, when i put music on and after it i open a web page the sound starts to fail with noises.. is that normal or is it something i can fix?
[12:26] <cbreak> doesn't sound normal at all
[12:27] <webchat53> is there something i could do to stop it?
[12:28] <cbreak> do you have the problem with different audio players? Like VLC, the browser itself?
[12:29] <webchat53> with the players and web browser
[12:29] <cbreak> do you have the problem without the web browser?
[12:30] <cbreak> or with a different one?
[12:30] <webchat53> yes with rhythmbox
[12:30] <cbreak> so you get noise always?
[12:30] <cbreak> with different computers / different hardware?
[12:30] <webchat53> when i open some web pages
[12:31] <cbreak> do you also get that noise when using firefox instead of chrome?
[12:31] <webchat53> yes different hardware
[12:31] <cbreak> or chrome instead of firefox?
[12:31] <webchat53> yes i use firefox
[12:31] <webchat53> but it happens on chroem chromiun to
[12:32] <webchat53> chrome
[12:32] <cbreak> do you connect to the internet via a radio or cable?
[12:32] <webchat53> cable
[12:32] <cbreak> do you get the problems too if you just download stuff via curl / wget instead of a web browser?
[12:33] <cbreak> I wonder if you have some kind of bad cabling, that creates crosstalk with your audio equipment
[12:33] <cbreak> or maybe something via the power grid
[12:33] <webchat53> its allways happens after a while i install the linux on different hardware and different distros
[12:34] <cbreak> since this isn't something normal, there must be something in your environment that they all have in common.
[12:34] <cbreak> (does this also happen with other operating systems?)
[12:34] <webchat53> yes with other linux on windows or bsd not
[12:37] <cbreak> very weird
[12:37] <webchat53> yes in did
[12:39] <cbreak> did you try using different audio subsystems?
[12:39] <webchat53> no i use the default
[12:40] <cbreak> I don't know how to do this, but I read that pipewire was the next big thing
[12:40] <cbreak> and there's also alsa, in addition to pulse, which is probably what you're using
[12:40] <webchat53> on pulse happens and on ubuntu default too
[12:42] <webchat53> and alsa i think it is used on fedora and also the same problem
[12:43] <i-garrison> webchat53: does you sound go via same device (e.g. hdmi audio or something)
[12:45] <webchat53> it happens on hdmi graphics card or motherboard audio
[12:50] <i-garrison> webchat53: there are lots of possible causes, can reproduce these issues with any latest livecd?
[12:51] <webchat53> with live install working from usb it never happen
[12:54] <i-garrison> webchat53: is livecd version more recent than the one you install?
[12:55] <webchat53> no the installed version is up to date and it happens on more distributions of linux and with diffrent hardware, a while after install it starts to happen
[12:58] <webchat53> on windows 10 or 11 or in BSD it do not happen..
[12:58] <i-garrison> webchat53: right, your query looks too generic; lots of similar sound issues are fixed with kernel drivers, alsa and audio server updates
[13:00] <i-garrison> you should be extremely unlucky these days to get noises across the range of hardware; hdmi has known issues but most are tied to either kernel driver problem or hdmi receiving side problem
[13:00] <i-garrison> webchat53: so maybe pick one combination and file an issue on launchpad to track it down?
[13:02] <webchat53> yes, i'm using ubuntu updated, what is launchpad?
[13:05] <i-garrison> webchat53: it's where bugs about ubuntu are collected
[13:05] <webchat53> thanks for the help cbreak i have to go now
[13:06] <webchat53> ok i will use it, i didn't now about it thanks
[13:07] <webchat53> bye all
[13:54] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[14:00] <pizza> o/
[14:58] <transhumanist> anyone know how to install Ubuntu on a laptop that was setup with windows, with the security keys enabled, seems it will never boot from the USB drive into the installer for linux. I even wipped out the manufactures security keys, and that ruins the windows install, I then restore these keys and I am stuck with windows asking me for the forgotten password and it wont send me the recovery email for another 24 hours, any way aroun
[14:58] <transhumanist> ss
[14:59] <transhumanist> I want to just wipe it and install Ubuntu
[14:59] <jkc> transhumanist: Just turn off secure boot. Wiping the keys don't do anything.
[15:00] <transhumanist> so if you turn off secure boot it wil boot from the USB?
[15:00] <jkc> transhumanist: Matter of fact, I'd go back in and re-enroll the default keys, or windows will continue to be broken.
[15:00] <transhumanist> so its not like there is something wrong with the installer?
[15:00] <transhumanist> yes ultimately I would like to do a dual boot setup
[15:01] <transhumanist> I will try what you say , but I am pretty sure I did try it already, but I was very tired when I did it so...
[15:05] <jkc> transhumanist: Deleting the enrolled keys does NOT turn off secure boot. Windows can get testy about disk encryption when secure boot is disabled, but I think it should be fine.
[15:05] <jkc> I would also make sure that there's not another setting present in your UEFI config that's prohibiting USB boot.
[15:10] <transhumanist> thanks , I got it, seems that without TPM engadged windows is borked. If I disable it it still doesnt work, however if I enable both legacy and UEFI boot I can get to the USB disk
[15:11] <transhumanist> before installing ubuntu should I reenable TMP so its not stuck between two operating modes?
[15:11] <ravage> Ubuntu doesn't care about TPM being enabled
[15:12] <ravage> And without secure boot you should be able to boot Ubuntu in UEFI Mode too
[15:12] <ravage> As an alternative you can disable UEFI completely and install Ubuntu and then windows in legacy mode
[15:14] <transhumanist> I didnt realize that , I thought TPM when set meant that it was used by all operating systems. I thought microsoft had finaly made it accessible by Linux
[15:33] <merpnderp> I'm writing a script to automate our security settings on a new install. In Bash how do I tell if something has already been installed?
[15:36] <john__> merpnderp: dplg -l | grep my_package
[15:36] <john__> dpkg*
[15:36] <shadow255> merpnderp: apt list --installed <package> should be non-empty if <package> is installed
[15:36] <merpnderp> john__: doh, that should have been obvious. Thank you.
[15:36] <merpnderp> I'm using grep all over the place.
[15:36] <merpnderp> thanks shadow255
[15:37] <WickedDekciw> Heyo. I'm getting a problem with exfatfsck -a which is supposed to fix an error but it says "errors found: 2, fixed 0", how can that be?
[15:41] <jkc> transhumanist: the TPM has nothing to do with booting from USB, nor does it have anything to do with secure boot. As for disabling UEFI, there's no such thing. You can put it into BIOS compatibility mode, but I wouldn't do that.
[15:41] <jkc> transhumanist: Leave the TPM enabled, reenroll the default secure boot keys, then turn off secure boot,
[15:42] <shadow255> jkc: perhaps it would be better to say that the TPM is only involved with secure boot as the verification means
[15:42] <jkc> shadow255: If that were accurate, then perhaps so.
[15:42] <merpnderp> How would I keep this from outputting to stdout in my bash script? `if ! dpkg -l | grep adcli; then`
[15:44] <jkc> shadow255: for Windows - which he/she to retain - the TPM generates and stores keys for disk encryption. Disabling that is a bad idea.
[15:48] <shadow255> jkc: thanks for clarifying - my understanding of secure boot, TPM and such can always be improved :)
[15:56] <Phase> merpnderp: look into redirecting stdout and/or stderr to /dev/null for more info, but the solution is: dpkg -l | grep adcli > /dev/null 2>&1
[16:02] <leftyfb> merpnderp: you should really look into something like ansible
[16:03] <merpnderp> leftyfb: boss doesn't want to set up ansible.
[16:03] <merpnderp> Easier just to write a bash script and then just run it on new servers.
[16:03] <leftyfb> merpnderp: false, but ok
[16:03] <merpnderp> I'd still have to do all this stuff on ansible.
[16:05] <merpnderp> Thanks Phase
[16:05] <merpnderp> ANd thanks leftyfb
[16:05] <Phase> yw
[16:48] <firefliesgaming> hello
[16:48] <firefliesgaming> hi
[16:48] <firefliesgaming> bye
[16:48] <firefliesgaming> bye
[16:49] <tomreyn> firefliesgaming: hi
[16:49] <firefliesgaming> hi
[16:49] <tomreyn> this is an ubuntu support channel, do you have an ubuntu support question?
[17:03] <transhumanist> I like ubuntu but must say the kubuntu installer is rubbish, or its altered by uuinetboot or whatever it is because it dont work well for laptops, doesnt install grub correctly and doesnt install the wireless by default
[17:03] <transhumanist> I tend not to have as much problems with Ubuntu, but I guess I will know soon enough
[17:04] <transhumanist> I am trying rufus this time
[17:04] <transhumanist> with reqular ubuntu
[17:09] <signofzeta> hi everyone, I powered on my old laptop after (finally) getting repair parts.  it's still on Ubuntu 20.10.  when I try to `apt update` so I can `do-release-upgrade`, it tells me that some repositories no longer have Release files.  how can I get this up to the latest Ubuntu version?
[17:12] <signofzeta> I also can't `apt upgrade` because some zfsutils-linux package .deb files aren't found on archive.ubuntu.com (and I have a ZFS root).  not sure if I can just remove those without blowing up the system.
[17:13] <tomreyn> transhumanist: this is a support channel - there are other channels if you don't have support questions.
[17:16] <tomreyn> signofzeta: since 20.01 has reached end of life, you will need to either reinstall (probably the best option if you don't have a complex backup / restore mechanism) or do a EOL upgrade
[17:17] <tomreyn> i meant to write "20.10", not "20.01" there.
[17:17] <tomreyn> EOL upgrading means you'd need to edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change urls so that they will point to old-releases.ubuntu.com
[17:18] <tomreyn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades has more info
[17:19] <signofzeta> didn't know that existed, thanks!  yeah, it took forever to get repair parts for my laptop... supply chains, you know.
[17:19] <tomreyn> right. though, if you can just do a fresh install, that's still the best option
[17:23] <signofzeta> there's nothing major on here, but I'd rather not rebuild this from scratch.  thank you, tomreyn!  it's working so far.
[17:58] <signofzeta> followed the directions, the system blew up.  oh well, I have an excuse to order a bigger SSD.  [bartsimpson_atleastyoutried.jpg]
[17:59] <signofzeta> thanks anyway, tomreyn.  it was worth a shot.
[18:00] <tomreyn> signofzeta: if you want to try and fix it, more details would be needed. otherwise, yes, fresh install.
[18:02] <signofzeta> nah, I'll just do a fresh install on a new SSD.
[18:04] <Guest314> hi
[18:04] <Guest314> anyone online ?
[18:08] <NotPerfect> New To Hexchat
[18:31] <cambrian_invader> this is a bit of a long shot, but does anyone know why makeparallel... doesn't actually use the jobserver?
[18:32] <cambrian_invader> see e.g. https://paste.debian.net/1225063/ where instead of a number <6, it uses 14 instead, and uses /sys/devices/system/cpu/online instead of getting jobs from the jobserver
[18:33] <cambrian_invader> I had a look at the source (from both the source package and https://salsa.debian.org/android-tools-team/android-platform-build/-/blob/master/tools/makeparallel/makeparallel.cpp) and I can't find any reference to that sysfs file
[18:33] <cambrian_invader> plus, it seems to have e.g. error messages which I don't get
[18:39] <tomreyn> cambrian_invader: is this an ubuntu support topic? if so, which ubuntu version does it refer to, and thus which version of which package in ubuntu?
[18:39] <cambrian_invader> I'm using focal, and the package is "makeparallel"
[18:44] <cambrian_invader> ok, looks like an upstream bug
[18:45] <cambrian_invader> they are using "jobserver-fds
[18:45] <cambrian_invader> instead of "jobserver-auth"
[18:46] <tomreyn> ubuntu's makeparallel looks like a direct import from debian, and is in universe.
[18:50] <cambrian_invader> oh, looks like it was deleted upstream
[18:50] <cambrian_invader> in 2019 no less
[19:47] <yates> i installed clang-10 but that did not define the default "clang++", only clang++-10
[19:48] <yates> isn't there a selection editor or somesuch for configuring such things?
[19:48] <yates> similar to choosing python2 or python3?
[20:15] <tomreyn> yates: maybe update-alternatives, or dpkg-reconfigure, or you just set the CC environment variable
[20:24]  * enyc meows
[20:24]  * enyc wonders about roadmaps for ubuntu+1 ... hrrm should ask in that channel
[20:40] <zenof> how can I install packages into a freshly installed ubuntu after the graphical installer has finished it's work, but before the first reboot. so, basically when I chroot into the new system how do I make the iso-image's repository available?
[20:41] <tomreyn> using apt-cdrom, i guess
[20:41] <tomreyn> it'll be easier to do this before the installer finishes, by just spawning a shell. or by downloading packages from th einternet in your chroot
[20:51] <zenof> hmm, to use apt-cdrom I would have to mount the cdrom, but I can't since it's already mounted to provide / and whatsoever?
[20:53] <tomreyn> maybe it doesn't actually use apt-cdrom for the sources anymore. you could probably tell easily by inspecting the setup you get when running a live / installer system again
[21:00] <zenof> okay, but even if apt-cdrom wasn't the tool to go with, still there should be those basic packages be available somewhere in the live-system. when I in the live system run a simple apt install openssh-server this works without any complains and installs the ssh server into the live system
[21:03] <tomreyn> zenof: i just tested this for you on distrotest.net, using the impish (21.10) installer: https://i.imgur.com/ehj9Kyb.png
[21:04] <tomreyn> the longer string the cdrom: source points to will be the iso label, i think
[21:08] <zenof> oh, it works! for some reason I could not access the "cdrom" in my chroot env, it didn't show up in my mtab. now, it does.
[21:09] <zenof> I guess I somehow unmounted everything befor cp'ing /proc/mounts to it.
[21:23] <acu> Can anyone recommend a scanner to test OpenSSL SSL/TLS MITM vulnerability
[21:30] <ViperXL75> say... I have this Ubuntu 20.04 LTS running. I've enabled for it to login automatically. Yet whenever it starts up or reboots, it won't fully login into the GUI. After it starts up, the screen will stay blank (not sure if it's my TV that can't handle the resolution or so). I have to press CTRL+F1 and then CTRL+F2. The moment i press CTRL+F2 it will immediately continue logging in without needing password. How do i see whats wron
[21:31] <ViperXL75> If i'm correct it's using GDM3 to open up the GUI. (just whatever is standard for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS)
[21:33] <tomreyn> acu: testssl for testing a server configuration. you'll be able to tell whether it's using insecure crypto or configurations which enable person in the middle attacks. but PITM attacks are really attacks against the client more than the server, clients need to use proper crypto and validate certificate chains properly.
[21:33] <tomreyn> actually testssl.sh is the package name. there are others.
[21:38] <acu> tomreyn, thanks a bunch - I am installing this right now --
[21:56] <tomreyn> ViperXL75: the     journalctl    command can be used to access and filter logs.     journalctl -b    shows logs since latest boot. type / to search (it uses 'less' as a pager by default). dsm3 is the graphical login manager which wraps around the gnome-shell desktop, that's right. and it will be loaded even with autologin.
[21:57] <tomreyn> acu: https://badssl.com/dashboard/ and https://clienttest.ssllabs.com:8443/ssltest/viewMyClient.html are client tests, but that's more of a #security topic, i guess
[22:26] <ViperXL75> tomreyn: ah thanks
[22:31] <Nixola> hi, a friend of mine's trying to update UBuntu from 20.04 to 21.04 but the update process has been stuck on "Preconfiguring packages ..." for ~1h now; any suggestions?
[22:34] <jhutchins> Nixola: What steps have they taken so far?
[22:38] <Nixola> jhutchins: they haven't done much except for running the graphical updater
[22:39] <Nixola> nevermind
[22:39] <Nixola> friend is dumbù
[22:40] <Nixola> dumb*
[22:40] <Nixola> last time I ask questions on behalf of other people
[22:41] <Nixola> he covered a dialog asking for the new hostname
[22:41] <tomreyn> it usually doesn't help anyone anyways, if they are happy to take others advice, then just help them come here.
[22:42] <tomreyn> support by proxy rarely works, even though it's kind of you to offer that.
[23:03] <jhutchins> Nixola: Hey, you at least found (and presumably) fixed the problem.
[23:08] <Nixola> true, but still


[06:57] <InHisName> hello
[10:40] <rmg51> Morning
[11:45] <waltman> Morning
[11:45]  * waltman has a craving for a hot breakfast this morning
[12:37] <jedijf> minellas
[12:37] <jedijf> andys
[12:41] <waltman> minellas
[21:57] <jedijf> ntr sale mon and tues : EVERYTHING is on SALE:
[21:57] <jedijf> Our $35 homework computers (runs Xubuntu) SALE PRICE = $21
[21:58] <pleia2> nice
[22:17] <rmg51> since when do we do ads?
[22:18] <MutantTurkey> ?
[22:18] <MutantTurkey> since when
[22:19] <waltman> Since it's a non-profit and it's not really an "ad" ad.
[22:23] <MutantTurkey> where is this?
[23:29] <jedijf> ntr sale mon and tues : EVERYTHING is on SALE:
[23:29] <jedijf> Our $35 homework computers (runs Xubuntu) SALE PRICE = $21
[23:29] <jedijf> MutantTurkey: ^^^
[23:29] <MutantTurkey> k?oh
[23:29] <MutantTurkey> well that's not bad
[23:29] <MutantTurkey> !
[23:29] <MutantTurkey> that's a good cause to support
[23:29] <MutantTurkey> no?
[23:30] <MutantTurkey> Gary Johnson is speaking tomorrow at independence hall at 12:15 btw
[23:39] <MutantTurkey> also I'm upgrading to precise today.. wish me luck