[00:10] <rick_h_> hatch: :/
[00:11] <hatch> rick_h_ yeah but the good news is that they have accepted the bug report
[00:12] <hatch> so it should at some point get fixed haha
[03:12] <Makyo> jujugui review/qa for the AM - https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/118 Dealing with dead/dying fridge, so out for the night.
[03:49] <hatch> Makyo looks like you forgot to lint :)
[03:50] <Makyo> hatch, It's running now, sorry.
[03:51] <hatch> :) np
[03:51] <Makyo> And pushed
[03:51] <hatch> just playing hearthstone
[03:52] <Makyo> I'm thawing a freezer.  Your night sounds better.
[03:55] <hatch> agreed haha
[03:56] <hatch> although im not very good at this game
[04:00] <hatch> i'll review your branch
[04:06] <hatch> Makyo I found a QA issue so I'm going to hold off on reviewing the code until resolved
[04:07] <Makyo> Later
[04:07] <hatch> yeah no problem :)
[04:14] <Makyo> See the issue, but this isn't data-bound and outside of scope.  Will discuss tomorrow.
[04:21] <hatch> sure thing
[04:21] <hatch> I'm out have a good night
[12:50] <bac> trusty update-ageddon
[12:55] <rick_h_> bac: yea, I get nervous
[12:56] <rick_h_> jcastro had bad timing and blew up during a trusty upgrade at cape town
[12:56] <rick_h_> jujugui I'm taking today as swap to catch up around here. I'll be in/out if anyone needs anything through the day
[12:56] <bac> i've been having issues with X on the vm so i get jittery when i see a bunch of x updates.  but, perhaps, they are the fixes i've been waiting for.  yay, irrational exhuberance.
[12:57] <bac> hey rick_h_ could you spare 5 minutes for a chat ?
[12:58] <rick_h_> bac: sure thing
[12:59] <bac> rick_h_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/Z2FyeS5wb3N0ZXJAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.t3m5giuddiv9epub48d9skdaso
[14:32] <bac> hi abentley, i have some questions about charmworld migrations and exoduses.
[14:32] <abentley> bac: OTP.
[14:32] <bac> currently in migrations/versions we have 019 - 023
[14:32] <bac> abentley: ok, no rush
[14:41] <hatch> rick_h_ hey I found something for you http://hackaday.com/2014/02/10/python-with-braces/ lol
[14:50] <rick_h_> hatch: :P
[14:50] <rick_h_> Makyo: hatch I'm swapping today but added a card with links to the twitter account info and azure stuff for ci.
[14:50] <rick_h_> Makyo: hatch so if you guys can note that in the call appreciate it
[14:50] <hatch> got it!
[14:50] <rick_h_> thanks
[14:50] <hatch> swap away
[14:54] <abentley> bac: Okay, I can talk now.
[15:02] <bac> abentley: ok, currently we have 019-023 in migrations/versions.  019 is an exodus.  i need to add a new exodus as 024.  so, if i'm reading everything correctly, adding a new exodus requires that i delete the existing exodus (019) and the migrations (020-023).  is that correct?
[15:03] <abentley> bac: That is correct.
[15:04] <bac> ty
[15:04] <abentley> bac: If you really want to keep the previous migrations/exoduses, you can rewrite the migrations a new migration 025 to happen after the exodus.
[15:05] <abentley> err, "can rewrite the old migrations into a new migration 025"
[15:06] <benji> the debug server and app server running on the same port is irritating
[15:33] <hatch> jujugui I need someone to test a bug for me who's running stable chrome on Ubuntu
[15:33] <hatch> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=342554 click the fiddle and let me know the outcome please
[15:36] <bac> hatch: the zip file was right but i saw application/x-yaml for the yaml file
[15:36] <hatch> ok so it looks like it works properly on Ubuntu but not OSX or windows
[15:36] <hatch> thanks for confirming
[15:37] <bac> hatch: here's my chromium from trusty
[15:37] <bac> ii  chromium-browser                                      31.0.1650.63-0ubuntu1~20131204.1
[15:37] <hatch> yeah thats an older version than is on OSX too
[15:50] <hatch> jujugui call in 10
[15:50] <bac> jcsackett: thanks for your review last night.  i've made fixes you can look at if you want otherwise i'll land with your previous review.
[15:59] <Makyo> jujugui call in 1
[16:07] <bac> let's shoot for five tomorrow
[16:08] <hatch> haha
[16:43] <arosales> rick_h_, hello
[16:43] <arosales> rick_h_, I know you got some more work on your plate so I wasn't sure if you would have time for writing a jenkins test for the charm audit
[16:43] <arosales> rick_h_, but I also didn't want to steal that one from you if you were going to work on so I thought I would ping here :-)
[16:43] <Makyo> arosales, I think rick_h_ is taking a swap day today, but I can make a card for that.
[16:54] <marcoceppi> hey rick, I've got a few merges that need review for amulet, got a few seconds?
[16:54] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: *
[16:55] <marcoceppi> https://github.com/marcoceppi/amulet/pull/19 and https://github.com/marcoceppi/amulet/pull/22
[16:59] <arosales> Makyo, ok thanks, that would be good. Just didn't want to steal that from rick_h_ if he was working on it
[17:03] <Makyo> arosales, alright, card on the board in Maint. - High for the time being.
[17:03] <Makyo> marcoceppi, ^^^ re rick_h_
[17:04] <arosales> Makyo, thanks
[17:04] <marcoceppi> Makyo: ah, thanks
[17:04] <Makyo> jujugui added @jujuui to http://jujugui.wordpress.com/ so that posts are autotweeted, and the user is @mentioned when anyone shares one of our posts through the widget.
[17:11] <hatch> OOooOOoo
[17:11] <hatch> Makyo +1
[17:12] <Makyo> <helpful />
[17:12] <hatch> done your good deed for the month? Time to relax!
[17:22] <Makyo> I'm out.  I'll be over here petting these dogs.
[17:26] <hatch> haha
[17:26] <hatch> Makyo review done
[17:27] <Makyo> hatch, cheers, thanks.
[17:28] <hatch> no prolbemo
[17:31] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: I'll take a look in a bit. Thanks for the links
[17:32] <rick_h_> arosales: honestly, probably not room on the plate with picking up all the knowledge in gary's head and getting things here ready for machine view asap. sorry
[17:32] <rick_h_> arosales: I'll see if we can get a slack card in case someone has some blocked time or something if it'll help
[17:32] <arosales> rick_h_, ack and thats what I figured just wanted to confirm, now get back to your swap day
[17:33] <arosales> any help is appreciated
[17:33] <rick_h_> benji: sorry on the port issue. I hit that the other day and thought the same thing. I liked it in theory when I updated it all.
[17:33] <rick_h_> benji: can you add a slack card split that into two ports again? I'll see if I can update it and get CI updated to use the right one.
[17:34] <rick_h_> Makyo: woot on auto tweeting robots
[17:37] <rick_h_> Makyo: hatch have you guys seen the email thread about allowing a null/none type? I want to chat/check how that effects us as we don't way to use 'unset' from the Gui and I worry we'll be stuck with an impossible workflow
[17:38] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: maybe we can setup a quick time tomorrow mid-day to chat on it? ^
[17:38] <hatch> rick_h_ I was under the impression that was only for proof and testing
[17:39] <hatch> but I'd participate in a call to learn more
[17:39] <rick_h_> hatch: well if it passes proof then it means the default value going into the charm config will be None. That effects us for 'use default values' and allowing a user to get back to a default once changed right?
[17:40] <rick_h_> right now proof marks it as an error if it's the wrong type and won't ingest/process I believe.
[17:40] <rick_h_> so I think this effects us on both charmworld and gui config UX
[17:40] <hatch> well we have 'real' defaults though
[17:41] <hatch> I think they are saying when people have defaults as 'empty'
[17:42] <rick_h_> hatch: right "" vs None. "" is a string, None is not. In JS it's the equiv of undefined.
[17:42] <rick_h_> How do we allow a user to get back to undefined from an input field
[17:42] <hatch> ohh now I see what you're getting at
[17:42] <rick_h_> and how to we get that sent via the api, or is there a magic "use default" we use instead or something?
[17:43] <hatch> we can solve this with a checkbox 'reset to default' on each field.... bleh
[17:43] <rick_h_> hatch: right, I think this effects us. I'd like to talk about it romorrow
[17:43] <rick_h_> tomorrow
[17:43] <rick_h_> if you can Makyo and maybe bac can peek at it and think on the repercussions so we can talk to marcoceppi about it from our end.
[17:43] <hatch> yup, I'm available, just invite me to whenever it is
[17:44]  * hatch swears at the damn power key
[17:44] <rick_h_> hatch: ok cool. Maybe we'll chat and talk it through on our end first. Anyway, ponder it please.
[17:45] <hatch> we need to determine if "" can always be undefined
[17:45] <hatch> I'm thinking no
[17:46] <rick_h_> hatch: right
[17:46] <hatch> I'd like a concrete case where that's true though
[17:46] <hatch> where "" !== undefined
[17:46] <rick_h_> there is a distinction between a blog title with an empty name and a undefined name.
[17:46] <rick_h_> maybe undefined is invalid, but "" is ok?
[17:46] <rick_h_> yea blah
[17:46] <hatch> exactly :)
[17:46] <hatch> I can't think of a real case where it's not the same
[17:46] <hatch> but in reality it is
[17:53] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: let me know, I haven't changed proof yet, but several charm authors  cried when proof was updated to be strict about formatting
[17:54] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: yes, I think it brings a few issues for us we need to work through for that change to take place. I understand your desire for at least the undefined case, but we need to verify that core will accept it and figure out how to represent that in the GUI
[17:56] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: whatever unset does is what gui needs to do, I don't care either way, I'm just tired of fighting a few of the authors who are opposed to the current way it works. Before it was "well, you can't set a None type via juju set AND the GUI can't handle it" now that unset exists (which is revert to default, FYI) GUI is the only reason not to have the switch back
[17:57] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: right, we'll have to explore some way of exposing 'unset' in the gui which we don't currently have is what I think we're heading towards
[17:57] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: and room is tight to add an "unset" button to every field in config
[17:58] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: yeah, I understand that, cheers ;)
[17:58] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: I agree it's something that needs to happen, just going to take a little bit to figure out the right way to do it.
[17:58] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: how does the reset to default work at the bottom? Or is that only reset the changes since last commit?
[17:59] <rick_h_> so I believe that just walks and sets to the default value. It's not using unset
[17:59] <rick_h_> and that's across all fields, not just one in particular you might want to 'unset'
[17:59] <marcoceppi> right, jw
[18:51] <hatch> jujugui could I get a review on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/119 no qa needed
[18:51] <hatch> thanks
[18:57] <hatch> rick_h_ how the heck do you have so many commits on the GUI? https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/graphs/contributors
[18:58] <hatch> do you just move code around to increase your ranking? lol!
[18:58]  * hatch taking lunch
[19:00] <rick_h_> hatch: :P guess it'll start to slow down a bit now
[19:00] <hatch> haha good I need to catch up!
[19:05] <bac> benji: would you have a moment to look at the exodus change? https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charmworld/1278222-2/+merge/205835
[20:24] <jcastro> hazmat, rick_h_: I cannot find the deployer bug that's "ignore broken units" and keep going
[20:35] <hazmat> jcastro, its framed by gui notion of bundle after bundle
[20:36] <jcastro> yeah I am just looking for the bug report.
[20:37] <hatch> jujugui anyone available for a pre-imp discussion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1278559 I think I need to move the inspector creation code
[20:37] <_mup_> Bug #1278559: dropping charm zip while inspector is open opens series select inspector over current inspector <juju-gui:Triaged by hatch> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278559>
[20:39] <hazmat> jcastro, 1252301
[20:39] <hatch> bug 1252301
[20:39] <_mup_> Bug #1252301: guiserver reports second bundle as failing after the first fails <juju-deployer:New> <juju-gui (Juju Charms Collection):Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252301>
[20:40] <hatch> ^ easy link :)
[20:40] <jcastro> that's a new bug, I filed one when I originally found the race condition in the mongo charm
[20:48] <jcastro> hey so hazmat
[20:49] <jcastro> you kind of mention this is two bugs
[20:49] <jcastro> basically I want to communicate that this is the bug eco wants fixed
[20:49] <jcastro> I don't care too much where it lives as long as it's on someone's radar
[20:51] <hazmat> jcastro, could you file a separate bug for the unit failure mode.. hopefully its easier to track that way
[20:51] <jcastro> I had filed it
[20:51] <jcastro> but now I can't find it for the life of me
[20:52] <hazmat> jcastro, perhaps against distro?
[20:52] <hazmat> or gui charm?
[20:52] <jcastro> it was against the gui initially
[20:52] <jcastro> but was "also affects" deployer
[20:53] <jcastro> ok I will file a new one
[20:57] <hatch> heh yeah the bug search is kind of poor
[20:57] <hatch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1276107 this one?
[20:57] <_mup_> Bug #1276107: gui fails to deploy a bundle due to "Invalid charm id: undefined" <juju-gui:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276107>
[21:03] <rick_h_> hatch: still need a pre-imp?
[21:03] <hatch> I do, are you not swapping today?
[21:03] <rick_h_> hatch: meh, semi swapping? e.g. destroyer of things blocking folks :)
[21:03] <hatch> haha ok creating hangout
[21:04] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpjlpbspqf8fkeidl096n1jg?authuser=1&hl=en
[21:15]  * bac dog walk.  bye.
[21:48] <hatch> rick_h_ lol wow this is embarrassing... https://gist.github.com/hatched/8944860
[22:01] <huwshimi> Morning
[22:01] <hatch> hey huwshimi
[22:04] <hatch> huwshimi you're blocking the high priority lane with two cards btw
[22:06] <huwshimi> Well, I think the only course of action is for everyone to stop working until I've moved those cards! :)
[22:15] <huwshimi> I'm personally not a massive fan of my laptop hard locking every day.
[22:17] <hatch> haha
[22:17] <hatch> hard locking? Are you running different types of vm's?
[22:18] <hatch> when I run parallels and virtual box it hard locks instantly
[22:18] <huwshimi> hatch: Nothing like that... no idea what's causing it
[22:19] <huwshimi> hatch: Do you know how I can get a branch I created under OSX in Ubuntu?
[22:21] <hatch> jujugui looking for a review and qa for https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/121
[22:21] <hatch> are you using vagrant?
[22:22] <hatch> or are you running both on metal?
[22:24] <huwshimi> hatch: Maybe I should rephrase the question.
[22:27] <hatch> looking at your repo one sec
[22:27] <huwshimi_> This is on an existing clone
[22:27] <hatch> run `git branch -a` is the branch there?
[22:28] <hatch> if not .... then `git fetch`
[22:28] <huwshimi_> nope
[22:29] <hatch> after the git fetch?
[22:29] <huwshimi_> ah, yes!
[22:29] <huwshimi_> hatch: Thanks!
[22:29] <hatch> :) np
[22:30] <hatch> huwshimi_ looks like you have some conflicts in your PR
[22:30] <huwshimi_> hatch: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to fix :(
[22:30] <hatch> alright well let me know if you need any help
[22:32] <huwshimi_> hatch: Thanks, I think I just need to merge develop
[22:33] <hatch> hmph, somehow I hit a keyboard shortcut to quit the channel
[22:47] <Makyo> You are just having all sorts of problems.
[22:52] <hatch> haha nah
[23:04] <huwshimi_> hatch: Fixed the build issues
[23:04] <hatch> cool
[23:06] <rick_h_> hatch: lol, coolio
[23:06] <hatch> huwshimi_ think you could rebase it down to a single commit?
[23:07] <huwshimi_> sure
[23:07] <hatch> you can keep the commit message with all the fix details
[23:07] <hatch> but just to keep the develop branch clean
[23:09] <huwshimi_> hatch: So what process should I follow to rebase it?
[23:09] <hatch> rick_h_ is probably the best guy  to ask because you have a merge in there
[23:12] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: which branch is this?
[23:12] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: Mine: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/120
[23:13] <rick_h_> looking
[23:13] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: yea, don't merge develop if you don't need to before pushing up
[23:13] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: There was a conflict with develop
[23:13] <rick_h_> since that's your last commit I'd just rebase that away
[23:14] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: ah, cool then
[23:14] <rick_h_> then I'd have changed that commit message be 'resolve conflicts'
[23:14] <rick_h_> so the goal is to rebase away the lint commit, change the message on the last one to "Resolve conflicts with develop"
[23:14] <rick_h_> git rebase -i HEAD~~~~
[23:14] <rick_h_> and change the lint to a `s` to squash sit
[23:15] <rick_h_> then `git ammend` should let you change the commit message of the last point
[23:16] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: Oh, don't we want this as one commit?
[23:18] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: naw, I think it's safe
[23:18] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: I mean you're fixing a series of bugs
[23:18] <hatch> ok cool
[23:18] <rick_h_> as long as it's sane it doesn't have to be one commit
[23:18] <rick_h_> just don't need noise like 'lint'
[23:18] <rick_h_> or 'prototype step 1' and such
[23:23] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: http://dpaste.com/1606090/
[23:25] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: so should be a conflict to resolve
[23:25] <rick_h_> git status
[23:25] <rick_h_> look for the files that are modified and noted
[23:27] <huwshimi_> ah, completed
[23:27] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: cool
[23:27] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: "git: 'ammend' is not a git command."
[23:27] <rick_h_> bah, old version of git.
[23:27] <rick_h_> git commit --ammend?
[23:28] <huwshimi_> nope
[23:29] <huwshimi_> this is just whatever version comes with Ubuntu I think
[23:29] <huwshimi_> 13.10
[23:29] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: git commit --amend -m "New commit message" ?
[23:29] <huwshimi_> git version <IP_ADDRESS>
[23:29]  * rick_h_ is looking
[23:29] <huwshimi_> What do I want that new commit message to be?
[23:30]  * huwshimi_ doesn't know what we're trying to achieve here
[23:30] <rick_h_> "Resolve conflicts with trunk" or the like vs "merge"
[23:32] <huwshimi_> OK, that worked. Pushing up changes.
[23:34] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: Pushing now fails: http://dpaste.com/1606119/
[23:34] <rick_h_> git push origin safari-bugfixes -f
[23:38] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: Is this correct? https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/120
[23:38] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: looking, looks crazy
[23:39] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: give me a minute
[23:42] <hatch> holy schmoly
[23:43] <rick_h_> hmm, git clone takes a while at 74k/s
[23:44] <rick_h_> ugh, 77%
[23:44] <rick_h_> go go go
[23:49] <huwshimi_> rick_h_: Are you on your phone?
[23:49] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: on my hotspot
[23:49] <rick_h_> huwshimi_: going really slow atm :/
[23:49] <rick_h_> I'm at a LUG meetup atm
[23:50] <rick_h_> at 81%
[23:50] <rick_h_> sorry, trying to pull down your branch and to see/verify that the extra commits don't dupe/etc
[23:50] <rick_h_> but need to clone first and guess 50MB is heavy for my current signal strength
[23:59] <rick_h_> yay, downloaded...working on the branches now


[00:48] <peirik> I keep having this problem: https://askubuntu.com/questions/970956/gnome-3-26-clicking-one-window-brings-another-in-the-foreground-ubuntu-17-10
[00:49] <peirik> According to the linked Bugzilla thread, the issue has been resolved long ago. Do I need to disable it manually, or update Gnome, or something? 🤔
[01:19] <rfm> peirik, possible it's not that old old bug but a new behavior connected to tiling groups?  go to settings>ubuntu desktop and scroll down to "enhanced tiling".  Maybe try disabling Tile Groups, or all of Enhanced Tiling (I really don't understand all the options and how they interact..)
[02:01] <peirik> rfm: Hm, I thought I had done that already - but seem I haven't. So sorry for the confusion. Thanks!
[07:56] <hwpplayer1> I can listen music but I can't hear sound from the TuxGuitar application. How to check it if something goes wrong in the backend/driver/kernelspace ?
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> hwpplayer1: sudo lshw -C sound
[08:01] <hwpplayer1> okay
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> hwpplayer1: and journalctl -f to see system logs to debug
[08:02] <thorsten`> hwpplayer1: tuxguitar uses midi, so it might be necessary to install the midi libraries (not sure if they are shipped with tuxguitar already)
[08:03] <hwpplayer1> lotuspsychje: https://termbin.com/ct1s
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> hwpplayer1: drivers are loaded
[08:05] <hwpplayer1> lotuspsychje: I can listen music
[08:05] <hwpplayer1> By the way my microphone does not work
[08:05] <hwpplayer1> But this is another issue/bug
[08:05] <thorsten`> hwpplayer1: https://www.tuxguitar.app/files/devel/desktop/help/tools_sound.html
[08:05] <hwpplayer1> thorsten`: what is this ?
[08:06] <thorsten`> what do you mean by 'this'? I just sent you a URL with information about the sound setup in tuxguitar. (Which I thought is precisely what you have been asking)
[08:07] <thorsten`> or do you mean »what is 'midi'?«?
[08:07] <hwpplayer1> nope I got what you mean
[08:08] <hwpplayer1> https://0x0.st/XiFG.png
[08:09] <hwpplayer1> thorsten` , lotuspsychje
[08:13] <hwpplayer1> I'll be back
[08:15] <thorsten`> hwpplayer1: if you open 'pavucontrol' (install it, if not already present), does tuxguitar show up as an application if you start playback?
[08:16] <cent> At Ubuntu 22 I am using mail -r account@domain to send messages.
[08:16] <cent> I'd like to place the -r account@domain to an mailrc file.
[08:17] <cent> What it should read like in the file?
[08:20] <cent> Sorry, asked to early 'set from=account@domain'. Thanks for your attention.
[08:31] <CosmicDJ> cent: there should be a /etc/mail.rc with examples/defaults
[08:32] <cent> CosmicDJ, Good. I'll check.
[08:33] <cent> By the way, I am getting a periodic mail from apt to my root's mailbox. How do I change frequency of messages of that kind?
[08:51] <FH_thecat> where do I get the "linux" and "initrd.gz" files, so that I can install Ubuntu 22.04 from my tftp server ?
[08:52] <FH_thecat> previously, for 20.04, i could use: wget http://debian.ethz.ch/ubuntu/dists/focal/main/installer-amd64/current/legacy-images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/amd64/{initrd.gz,linux}
[08:52] <FH_thecat> but these files don't exist for 22.04
[09:11] <ice9> `cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor`  outputs 'powersave' regardless of the power mode selected in gnome-shell, is that normal?
[09:21] <tomreyn> ice9: i responded in #linux, please don't cross-post
[09:28] <ice9> tomreyn, sorry
[10:06] <skdnn> wtf is going on in ubuntu? what's with all those renamed packages?
[10:10] <tomreyn> skdnn: hi there. adding more context to your question, such as which ubuntu release you are referring to, may help you get a better response.
[10:10] <skdnn> packages are having *t64 suffix all of the sudden
[10:17] <tomreyn> skdnn: package names, or versions? which ubuntu release?
[10:18] <skdnn> noble
[10:18] <tomreyn> !noble
[10:28] <montjoie> hello, I try to do an autoinstall, but it still ask me question without trying to access the autoinstall file
[10:52] <tomreyn> montjoie: #ubuntu-server may be the better place there.
[11:03] <montjoie> tmroland: thanks
[11:04] <montjoie> but the issue seems that ubuntu install need ip insteald of dns
[11:11] <mandem0110> Anyone here use ikev2 vpn/strongswan vpn??? after being idle it disconnects and I have to "sudo ipsec restart" to bring it back up...
[11:25] <caspermatt> hi i use lubuntu
[11:25] <caspermatt> im useing a 2gb laptop to run lubuntu
[11:26] <caspermatt> this is not my main computer
[11:26] <luk3515> hola
[11:26] <caspermatt> hi
[11:26] <luk3515> hi
[11:26] <luk3515> what are you doing?
[11:26] <caspermatt> this is my slow laptop
[11:26] <luk3515> this is to primitive?
[11:26] <caspermatt> getting used to this slow laptop
[11:26] <luk3515> i am from argentina
[11:27] <luk3515> i love laptops
[11:27] <caspermatt> im from canada
[11:27] <caspermatt> and i like computers too
[11:27] <luk3515> i cant belive you are there
[11:27] <caspermatt> do you know this game called beamng.drive?
[11:27] <luk3515> im learning to play drums and code
[11:27] <caspermatt> from steam
[11:27] <caspermatt> nice
[11:27] <luk3515> no i dont know that game
[11:28] <caspermatt>  im leaning that as well
[11:28] <caspermatt> its basicly
[11:28] <luk3515> i cant use steam, i dont know why
[11:28] <caspermatt> a irl
[11:28] <caspermatt> in game version of cars
[11:28] <tomreyn> welcome caspermatt + luk3515. does one of you have an ubuntu support question? because that's wat this channel is for. (please use other channels such as #ubuntu-offtopic) for social chat.
[11:28] <tomreyn> *what
[11:29] <tomreyn> mandem0110: https://wiki.strongswan.org/issues/2792#note-1
[11:29] <luk3515> how can chat in private? casper?
[11:29] <caspermatt> its a game where theres when you crash your car
[11:30] <caspermatt> idk
[11:30] <luk3515> first time chating irc
[11:30] <caspermatt> me too
[11:30] <luk3515> lol
[11:31] <caspermatt> jion this server
[11:31] <caspermatt> name : me Pass :1234
[11:48] <mandem0110> tomreyn: would I add that to: sudo nano /etc/strongswan.conf ?
[12:03] <tomreyn> mandem0110: auto=route and dpdaction=restart ? i assume so
[12:03] <mandem0110> tomreyn: ok and what?
[12:03] <tomreyn> ipsec.conf actually, if you have that
[12:04] <mandem0110> I'm using swanctl.
[12:04] <mandem0110> So it's config is /etc/strongswan.conf
[12:05] <tomreyn> i see, i haven't used strongswan in years, am probably not the right person to try to provide support here, sorry.
[12:09] <tuxick> i thought ipsect got deprecated like 10 years ago
[12:39] <mandem0110> Thanks tomreyn! Think I done it. I'll leave it idle for a few hours (normally disconnects) I added to /etc/strongswan.conf as /etc/swanctl/swanctl.conf said the .conf file was wrong :D
[12:41] <tomreyn> good luck
[12:44] <mandem0110> Thanks!
[13:08] <Guest95> Hello,
[13:08] <Guest95> I am having some troubles with xauth inside a chroot.
[13:08] <Guest95> Users connect through ssh to the chrooted folder, but xauth is not launching correctly.
[13:08] <Guest95> The xauth documentation seems quite dense.
[13:08] <Guest95> Does anyone has an idea on where could I ask for some help concerning this?
[13:30] <mandem0110> Strongswan still disconnecting 🤔
[14:51] <mandem0110> tomreyn: ! thanks, seems to be working great. Even got it started on bootup which it didn't before :D thanks again :P
[14:53] <tomreyn> mandem0110: oh nice. so what changed between when you said it had not fixed it and now?
[14:55] <mandem0110> the 2 settings you pasted and the 2 from that thread.
[15:18] <tepperson> I am writing a service which requires a password on startup. It should not run as root. I want it to be managed by systemd. How can I get the password from the user on service start?
[15:23] <tomreyn> tepperson: that's more of a development than a support question, i'd look into how cryptsetup does it when prompting users for the disk encryption password. my understanding is that systemd units are not normally meant to run interactively, so special measures may be required.
[15:44] <mandem0110> "if builtin or unsure: add usbhid.mousepoll=1 or usbhid.jspoll=1 usbhid.elsepoll=1 to kernel command line and reboot." is grub, correct?
[15:44] <mandem0110> [    4.686910] usbhid: unknown parameter 'elsepoll' ignored I keep getting this tho...
[16:56] <{[Stony]}> Can anyone tell me a repository where I can find cracked applications for Lubuntu?
[17:03] <leftyfb> {[Stony]}: This is a support channel. You should be able to install any application from the ubuntu repositories for free. No need for "crack"ing
[17:21] <lubuntu> Hola
[18:44] <pentanol72> cacke
[18:44] <pentanol72> mascketr
[18:49] <awilkins> Are things being mirrored to Ubuntu repos right now or is the disc in my Pi4 just dying horribly or something, ports.ubuntu.com is giving me speeds floating around oooh, tens of kilobytes per second
[18:50] <leftyfb> awilkins: you could try asking in #ubuntu-mirrors
[18:50] <awilkins> Cheers, didn't know that was a channel
[19:06] <younder> There are no discs on a PI4..
[19:15] <pinkfloyd> salve
[19:18] <tomreyn> mandem0110: it would help us help you if you would start by discussing the issue you are trying to solve, and link to the guide you have chosen to follow, if any. this command will list the *poll* parameters supported by your kernels' usbhid module:    sudo modinfo -p usbhid | grep poll
[19:19] <pentanol72> solve
[19:19] <pentanol72> or and words
[19:19] <tomreyn> pentanol72: do you have an ubuntu support question?
[19:19] <pentanol72> of songs, what's
[19:20] <pentanol72> how make a core ?
[19:20] <tomreyn> "make a core?" what do you mean?
[19:21] <pentanol72> node.js javascript
[19:21] <tomreyn> i bet they have their own channel. search for it:
[19:21] <pentanol72> or bash libertop
[19:21] <tomreyn> !alis
[19:22] <pentanol72> tomerlyn?
[19:22] <pentanol72> how rain is counld be?
[19:22] <pentanol72> what from you are?
[19:22] <pentanol72> you want ubuntu make?
[19:22] <pentanol72> start from php
[19:22] <awilkins> > no discs on a Pi4 .. well, I'm old, I use "disk" interchangeably. It has an SSD on a USB adapter.
[19:22] <pentanol72> then
[19:23] <pentanol72> who about ubuntu core?
[19:23] <tomreyn> pentanol72: sorry, but this is not a chat, and your english does not make much sense. maybe try one of the language specific ubuntu channels
[19:28] <pentanol72> I want release....
[19:28] <pentanol72> react app on vietnam slang and more
[19:38] <deadmorozz> Hello
[19:47] <RickyRat5005> I have 4 monitors but once in a while one becomes non-responsive. If I go into displays and turn it off and back on it is fine again. If I unplug the video cable and plug it back in, it's fine. Anything I can do to troubleshoot this issue?
[20:08] <Ratman5005> I have 4 monitors but once in a while one becomes non-responsive. If I go into displays and turn it off and back on it is fine again. If I unplug the video cable and plug it back in, it's fine. Anything I can do to troubleshoot this issue?
[20:12] <Ratman5005> Changing the resolution fixes it as well.
[21:04] <kiohan> Как на бодхи линукс установить хоть что-то, у меня постоянно выдает ошибк при установке. Я новичек и не понимаю в чем проблема
[21:06] <kiohan> и где я вообще, это что-то по типу форума?
[21:06] <tomreyn> !ru | kiohan
[21:07] <ravage> kiohan: Мы также поддерживаем только официальные версии Ubuntu. У Bodhi Linux очень дружелюбное и активное сообщество, убедитесь в этом сами на сайте У Bodhi Linux очень дружелюбное и активное сообщество, убедитесь в этом сами на сайте и https://discordapp.com/invite/pvB7MSf.
[21:13] <Menzador> Oh on top of that, there's an external Discord invite...
[21:46] <hwpplayer1> Do you know any stock market application for Ubuntu Desktop ?
[21:46] <hwpplayer1> Maybe snap package ?
[21:47] <tokam> There is no more mongodb in apt-get without a ppa?
[21:53] <hwpplayer1> Thanks
[21:53] <hwpplayer1> I'll be back later
[23:32] <luna_3> my computer died so I am on a different, similar, old computer. It wont update. I tried the gui too. I dont know what to do now. I think I have  22.04 but wont swear to it.
[23:32] <luna_3> ita a dell with 8G of ram
[23:32] <luna_3> desktop
[23:34] <luna_3> chrome works fine but I hav eit on wifi instead of ethernet because the ethernet jack seems to be fussy/broken? I cant even hold it still to keep the light on.
[23:35] <margan-u2> I changed software-updates to tell me of all updates and not just lts updates andit is trying to install or really installing. (Itsa gui so I'' find out when I do.)
[23:37] <margan-u2> the Chrome bookmarks do not whow the 2024 folders and it wont let me mess with them, needs update (to chrome.)
[23:38] <margan-u2> Sorry THIS is an Acer As[ore TC 605
[23:40] <margan-u2>  That strategy seems to have worked to I'M FINE NOW. No questions. (Ain't telepathy useful!)
[23:40] <tomreyn> try getting error messages from apt running in a terminal emulator. apt is not very difficult to use.
[23:40] <tomreyn> (at least for the basic tasks)
[23:41] <margan-u2> I just startedupgrading to 23.10 - I have never ever before upgraded to an intermediate version.)
[23:42] <tomreyn> hopefully you installed all the pending updates on the previous release beforehand, and removed 3rd party software (versions)


[09:21] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Should i package gnome-menu 3.13? It fixes a bunch of crashes
[09:49] <Noskcaj> also, gucharmap 3.12, which i think is just translation fixes
[10:08] <darkxst> Noskcaj, gucharmap yes
[10:09] <darkxst> gnome-menu talk to edubuntu guys (mitya57 etc)
[10:13] <darkxst> maybe used in lubuntu as well?
[10:51] <darkxst> Noskcaj, i.e gnome-shell dropped gnome-menu stuff, so havent really kept tabs on it
[10:59] <LinDol> hi all
[10:59] <darkxst> hi LinDol
[11:02] <LinDol> Thank you :)


[01:21] <troy_s> Wholly phoop those spec pages are depressing to read.  Mark should invest 10 million dollars to purchase a clue for all of the commenteers.
[01:22] <troy_s> To be fair, not all.  But a disproportionate 'gnome-look-percentage' perhaps.
[02:10] <Toma-> what are you whining about? :D
[02:10] <Toma-> *link*?
[02:28] <troy_s> Toma-: Just the specs.
[02:28] <troy_s> Toma-: Check the topic.
[02:56] <Toma-> ok, i agree.
[02:57] <Toma-> troy_s➜ have you seen fedora 8 yet?
[03:02] <troy_s> Toma-: Yeah it saddens me.
[03:03] <Toma-> yeh its pretty flash sounding, but seriously, is it going to make it easier to use?
[03:03] <troy_s> Toma-: We now form the unholy trinity of worst case design.  Tepid.  Bland.  Unsuccessful.
[03:03] <troy_s> Toma-: Hrm?
[03:03] <Toma-> rhetorical question :)
[03:04] <Toma-> ive been playing with some layouts in e17. trying to make a more dynamic work flow
[03:05] <troy_s> Toma-: I was greatly disappointed when I heard Diana had left Red Hat.
[03:05] <Toma-> :o
[03:06] <Toma-> why?
[03:06] <troy_s> Toma-: She is working with a video game company in California.
[03:06] <Toma-> (did she leave?)
[03:06] <Toma-> awww
[03:06] <Toma-> bugger :(
[03:06] <troy_s> Toma-: Worse, the sad timing of the article which claimed "Red Hat has been the best looking distribution for a while..." was right on time with Fedora 8 -- the _worst_ release for them out of the past four.
[03:07] <Toma-> heh :/
[03:07] <Toma-> well I hope its inspired some more people
[03:07] <troy_s> Toma-: Rather ... appropriate.  They should have done that interview when she dropped the Fedora 7 work.  It just goes to show you that Free Software might not be ready for the true designers out there just yet.
[03:07] <Toma-> that way it wont be a loss
[03:07] <troy_s> Toma-: Red Hat should probably have offered her more money and given her the keys to the car.
[03:08] <Toma-> i thought she was already in control of most of the direction?
[03:08] <troy_s> Toma-: She was quite exceptional and an asset to FOSS.
[03:08] <troy_s> Toma-: Well like anything, she probably had her hands, arms, legs, and other body parts crimped all to hell by people who inevitably 'know better'.
[03:09] <troy_s> Toma-: Despite the fact that she was probably the only one at Red Hat with a degree in fine arts.
[03:09] <troy_s> (MFA)
[03:09] <Toma-> mmm
[03:10] <troy_s> Toma-: We have had a long string of very talented artists and designers pop up and around...
[03:11] <troy_s> Toma-: G. Sartori (Brazil institute of design grad), Coz (fine arts grad from Spain iirc), Damian Villa (Grad from Spain again iirc)
[03:11] <Toma-> troy_s➜ yeh, alot of people usually give up straight away when no-one appreciates their work
[03:12] <troy_s> Toma-: Well it isn't about appreciating the work (although that is probably a good portion of it)
[03:12] <Toma-> if its not a Vista clone, then the general population wont give a crap
[03:12] <troy_s> Toma-: It is an antagonistic culture devoid of a willingness to change.
[03:12] <Toma-> yep.
[03:13] <troy_s> Toma-: I would like to hope that that isn't the case.  A good deal of people want something distinctly 'them', and the first sign of a 'knockoff' probably repels more than anything.
[03:13] <Toma-> i was having a chat to darkmatter the other day about a simple UI. one that uses speech to text recognition, and an AI bot that can parse to commandline or something
[03:14] <troy_s> Toma-: If history shows us one thing, the quest for an xxx Killer (such as iPod killer) etc. seems to be regularily met with failure.  While you are busy creating the 'WalkmanKiller' the completely-different-thing-iPod comes out and kills it.
[03:14] <Toma-> the components are out there in the land of FOSS, no-ones plugged them together yet tho
[03:14] <Toma-> ineed
[03:14] <troy_s> Toma-: Darkmatter's last effort has really impressed me.
[03:14] <Toma-> *indeed
[03:15] <troy_s> Toma-: There is something 'wonky' about the font he chose, but the interface regarding buttons and 3D subtlety is amazing.  I would only probably tweak the top light to top left.
[03:15] <Toma-> yeh
[03:15] <troy_s> Toma-: Minor detail -- it is leagues in front of the most of what I have been looking at.
[03:16] <Toma-> personally, im sick to death of win95 layouts and feels
[03:16] <Toma-> to be frank, the usual gnome layout is just that with an extra panel
[03:16] <troy_s> Toma-:  Absolutely.  I give a hearty plus one to the gOS guys for saying 'bugger it' to the G / K duality and forging on ahead with e
[03:17] <Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/layouttest.png
[03:17] <troy_s> Toma-: Although Ken's work (the fellow who has been mocking the nights and days away on that theme in the mailing list) has much admirable persistence.
[03:17] <Toma-> current layout im messing with
[03:17] <Toma-> finding it a little heavy on the right. mainly because im spending too much time on irc :)
[03:18] <troy_s> ssh there he is.
[03:19] <_MMA_> :P
[03:22] <troy_s> Toma-: I should probably get easy_e working again.  It bombed out on last attempt.
[03:22] <troy_s> Toma-: Do you do any SLR photography or like work?
[03:23] <Toma-> nah i dont have a camera
[03:23] <Toma-> (im a music teacher)
[03:23] <Toma-> (on school holidays :>)
[03:25] <Toma-> E is handy for tinkering with layouts and feels
[03:25] <troy_s> Toma-: That Crud?
[03:25] <Toma-> hu?
[03:32] <troy_s> Toma-: Is that Crud?
[03:32] <troy_s> Toma-: Erm... Buuf.
[03:33] <Toma-> ...yeh a little bit of buuf
[03:33] <Toma-> :D
[03:33] <Toma-> was giving it a try
[03:33] <Toma-> i made a KDE desk with buuf. not very cool.
[03:33] <troy_s> Toma-: How does the filemanager look by default now in E?  Screenshot?
[03:33] <Toma-> very artistic, but not very comfortable
[03:34] <Toma-> well
[03:34] <Toma-> its got a toolbar... and location and navigator plugins for it
[03:34] <Toma-> i havent themed it too deeply yet in my theme
[03:38] <Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/efm.png
[03:38] <Toma-> you can theme the toolbar in it. i just made mine the same at the background colour so far and the buttons of course, can be modified
[03:46] <troy_s> Toma-: Yes... I am aware that E is very themable.  I was just wondering about the default.  Last time I tried the icon size was hideously small.
[03:47] <Toma-> you can change that in the config
[03:47] <Toma-> you can have like, 200px icons?
[03:47] <troy_s> Toma-: Yes... what was the default?
[03:47] <troy_s> Toma-: Do you have entrance running?
[03:47] <Toma-> oh... i cant remember :| gimme a sec
[03:47] <Toma-> nah i use KDM
[03:48] <Toma-> 48 is default
[03:57] <troy_s> Toma-: Is entrance stable ?
[04:00] <Toma-> well i know people use it, but i dont.
[04:00] <Toma-> as for e17 itself, I use it daily. firefox crashes more often than it
[04:01] <Toma-> ive got to go. lunch time
[04:01] <Toma-> theres a few devs lurking in #e at the moment if you need to know more
[13:37] <lapo> hi
[16:11] <_MMA_> darkmatter: You got time to poke around a metacity.xlm later for me?


[00:19] <RonWhoCares> Can 'Kdenlive' be installed on Lubuntu 15.10?
[00:23] <RonWhoCares> Hi Mdxxx
[00:28] <phillw> RonWhoCares: the answer is yes
[00:29] <phillw> it will bring a lot of extra stuff it needs, but if you need it.. that is what you will have to accept.
[00:29] <RonWhoCares> ok
[00:29] <RonWhoCares> I am thinking of buying the new ' Pine 64 '
[00:29] <RonWhoCares> I * only * want to use it for video editing / rendering
[00:30] <RonWhoCares> Do you have any other suggestions?
[00:33] <RonWhoCares> I am using Ubuntu 15.10 .  Using this computer for video editing causes Firefox, Thundermail and Kdenlive to crash because of lack of resources.
[00:34] <RonWhoCares> I don't care if it is slow, just that it works.  I would not ever be using it for web browsing or send / receiving e-mails
[00:34] <phillw> RonWhoCares: what is the specification of your computer?
[00:35] <RonWhoCares> It is an HP G61.  2.0 hertz   4 gig of RAM
[00:35] <phillw> We have two routes for you to attempt... one will work for you.
[00:36] <phillw> RonWhoCares: how comfortable are you with CLI ?
[00:41] <RonWhoCares> (Sorry for the delay, I had to use the toilet)
[00:41] <RonWhoCares> Yes, I am heavily into programming.  I do use the command line from time to time
[00:41] <RonWhoCares> It is an option
[00:44] <RonWhoCares> phillw: I have only used Kdenlive for +- 2 months.
[00:44] <RonWhoCares> What makes my videos so rendering intensive is the use of captioning
[15:43] <Amitari> Hey, I need help with selecting a text editor.
[15:44] <Amitari> I've always used Kate. Kubuntu was my first distro, and Kate was bundled with it, at least back then. Even though it was a pretty long time ago since I used KDE, I still use Kate because I like it's functions and all, but it has started to act up on me a lot now, the icons never load, so I need help selecting a new text editor.
[15:45] <Amitari> I need to be able to apply word wrap to the text file I'm editing so I can keep it at 80 columns, and I also need to be able to switch encodings and line break types on the file.
[16:02] <phillw> Amitari: there are many text editors to use.
[16:03] <Amitari> I know.
[16:03] <Amitari> But none of the other ones I've tried have the functions I need
[16:03] <phillw> for geeks, there is vim (an enhanced vi) ... It will do everything you need, but you have to learn a new language (klingon is the nearest I've found to it)
[16:04] <Amitari> Uh, I meant a graphical text editor.
[16:05] <Amitari> I only use the terminal for batch-stuff and going on BBSs.
[16:05] <Amitari> And for some other text-based software.
[16:06] <Amitari> I browsed the web with Lynx for a week once when I had messed up the graphical interface.
[16:06] <phillw> https://www.learnenough.com/text-editor-tutorial
[16:07] <phillw> you want 80 column limit, you're going to have roll your sleeves up.
[16:08] <phillw> I have read the start of it, and my head hurted!... But, it goes through all the options... (I use nano, but can use vim when needed)
[16:09] <Amitari> Kate has all the functions I need, but it has started to act up on me, and I didn't manage to fix it.
[16:09] <Amitari> Kate is graphical.
[16:09] <Amitari> There must be some other graphical text editor that has those functions.
[16:10] <Amitari> Kate has an option "apply word wrap" that can be used to reformat the text so that no line goes beyond 80 characters.
[16:22] <Amitari> Are you sure there isn't another graphical editor with that function?
[16:40] <Amitari> The editor Geany can do pretty much everything I want except applying word wrap to the file.
[16:47] <Amitari> I just found the editor SciTE, it has the functions I want, but you have to set the options manually in a text file, which is really unusual for an otherwise graphical program.
[16:47] <Amitari> It's really hard since the options are pretty obscure.
[16:47] <phillw> Amitari: all links that require 80 chars point to CLI. This is reasonable as who would want GUI word processing system that limited you 80 characters per line? I'd suggest using something libre write such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpLz91-l-8k
[16:48] <phillw> That way you can edit the page layout
[16:48] <Amitari> Kate has the function "apply word wrap", that makes the text wrap around so the lines don't exceed 80 characters.
[16:48] <Amitari> LibreOffice Write is not a plain-text editor.
[16:49] <phillw> Amitari: it is if you choose to save the document as such.
[16:49] <Amitari> Gosh, just no...
[16:49] <phillw> "Save As" <> "Save"
[19:40] <django_> hey all
[19:40] <django_> id like to be able to hit print screen and have a screen shot
[19:41] <ianorlin> django_: which version of lubuntu? It saves a screenshot in the home folder with print screen
[19:41] <django_> ahh cool
[19:41] <django_> ianorlin, ty
[19:42] <ianorlin> I remember some problems with 14.04 though
[20:34] <tonnyv> It's driving me nuts.... can seem to customise my openbox menu :(
[20:34] <tonnyv>    ps -aux|grep openbox
[20:34] <tonnyv> shows me
[20:34] <tonnyv>   openbox --config-file /home/<user>/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml
[20:34] <tonnyv> but whatever i change in the xml, nothing in the menu changes after
[20:34] <tonnyv> openbox-session --reconfigure (or after logout/login)
[20:35] <phillw> Drone`: how are you?
[20:36] <tonnyv> It's driving me nuts.... can seem to customise my openbox menu :( "ps -aux|grep openbox"shows me  "openbox --config-file /home/<user>/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml" but whatever i change in the xml, nothing in the menu changes after "openbox-session --reconfigure" (or after logout/login) any suggestions ??
[20:38] <phillw> tonnyv: ahh, lubuntu shifts its config files.... Maddens me! Post up the version you are running and wait for someone like wxl to let you know where the config file is.
[20:39] <ianorlin> tonnyv: are you still using the right click menu for pcmanfm for the desktop?
[20:40] <ianorlin> sorry stupid question but it can be a derp one
[20:40] <tonnyv> yeah, still do
[20:41] <ianorlin> ah the menu in that config file is the menu for  the openbox right click on desktop menu
[20:41] <ianorlin> which that replaces
[20:41] <ianorlin> not the menu in the panel
[20:42] <tonnyv> thnx, i'look that way
[22:18] <faLUCE> hello, how can I make he right scrollbar VISIBILE on the windows? Now it appears a small cursor only if I move the mouse over the border
[23:23] <SebastianTCL> there is no sound on skype
[23:23] <SebastianTCL> i checked the alsa mixer and everything seems to be working
[23:23] <SebastianTCL> sound works on other applications
[23:23] <SebastianTCL> i just installed it on lubuntu 15.10
[23:23] <Unit193> http://askubuntu.com/questions/506691/no-sound-on-skype/508161 ?
[23:33] <SebastianTCL> Unit193, thats weird i installed it and now when i opened it everything s mute
[23:42] <SebastianTCL> wtf now youtube is not playing videos
[23:54] <SebastianTCL> Unit193, it worked
[23:54] <SebastianTCL> thanks
[23:55] <SebastianTCL> i give you the finger with a smile
[23:55] <SebastianTCL> it actually sounds better
[23:55] <SebastianTCL> like crisper
[23:55] <SebastianTCL> odd
[23:56] <Unit193> That's an odd way to show gratitude...


[08:03] <tsdgeos> Saviq: answered in https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/filtergrid_bindingloop/+merge/216147
[08:04] <Saviq> tsdgeos, tx
[08:17] <tsdgeos> Saviq: how are we doing on the landing side?
[08:18] <Saviq> tsdgeos, we ~need to wait for U to open
[08:18] <tsdgeos> we should at least get https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/card_optimizations/+merge/213660 in so qmluitests stop failing
[08:18] <tsdgeos> ouch
[08:18] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah, already in a silo
[08:18] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but I don't want to SRU it
[08:19] <Saviq> don't think it's worth the pain
[08:19] <tsdgeos> ok
[08:21] <mhr3> Saviq, how can i get more debug on "QUbuntu: Could not create application instance" ?
[08:21] <Saviq> mhr3, look in unity8.log
[08:22] <mhr3> Saviq, also, good morning :)
[08:22] <mhr3> Saviq, it's not unity though, it's an app
[08:22] <Saviq> mhr3, yes, look in unity8.log why it rejected it
[08:23] <Saviq> mhr3, did you pass --desktop_file_hint?
[08:23] <mhr3> ah, it really says something :)
[08:30] <mhr3> Saviq, hm, keeps telling me that no desktop_file_hint was specified, even if i do specify it :/
[08:30] <Saviq> mhr3, full path? is it a bash wrapper by any chance?
[08:30] <mhr3> Saviq, it's.. complicated :)
[08:31] <mhr3> can try full path to it
[08:31] <Saviq> mhr3, the process which creates the Mir connection needs to have full path to the .desktop file on its command line
[08:31] <Saviq> mhr3, or be the main process launched by upstart-app-launch
[08:33] <mhr3> Saviq, is qtubuntu the one who tries to parse it out from the cmd line?
[08:33] <Saviq> mhr3, no, unity-mir is
[08:34] <Saviq> mhr3, if you wanted more output, you'd have to build unity-mir with no -DNODEBUG
[08:37] <mhr3> eek, it reads /proc/*/cmdline
[08:41] <tsdgeos> i did that i think ^_^
[08:41] <tsdgeos> on command by someone
[08:42] <Saviq> mhr3, the whole thing is eek indeed
[08:42] <Saviq> mhr3, which is why you should just build a .desktop file and launch via ual :P
[08:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: see last comment of https://code.launchpad.net/~josharenson/unity8/doc_args/+merge/216649
[08:43] <mhr3> Saviq, and i am, but.. as i said.. complicated :)
[08:43] <Saviq> mhr3, and/or push Ted to do https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ODZjYjpMre2T-IFuFdBmzee4G0MRSsU4DbRkuZhts7o/edit ;)
[08:43] <Saviq> mhr3, yeah, I can tell you're doing something weird :P
[08:43] <mhr3> super weird ;)
[08:44] <Saviq> tsdgeos, or we could just use gettext there?
[08:44] <Saviq> OTOH translating --help? who does that :D
[08:44] <tsdgeos> Saviq: but then you need to load it there too because the loading we do in qml is too late
[08:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah I know
[08:45] <tsdgeos> Saviq: kde software does, that's why QCommandLineParser has the option
[08:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, j/k
[08:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, replied
[08:45] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i feel we could do with just pretending people don't and should not care about those comand line options that are kind of internal and not translate them for now
[08:46] <Saviq> tsdgeos, exactly what I said
[08:46] <tsdgeos> but not sure what's our policy and if "everything should be translatable"
[08:46] <tsdgeos> ah didn't read your comment in there
[08:46] <tsdgeos> yet
[08:51] <mhr3> Saviq, so what does ual do special that --desktop_file_hint isn't required then?
[08:51] <Saviq> mhr3, unity-mir talks to ual directly
[08:51] <Saviq> mhr3, so ual reports to unity-mir "hey, dude, there's app foo launching now, beware!"
[08:51] <mhr3> so it just tracks the pid?
[08:51] <Saviq> yup
[08:52] <mhr3> i see
[08:53] <Cimi> Saviq, ~cimi/unity8/fix-locale-tests I removed the first line in the cmake as requested
[08:53] <Saviq> Cimi, kk
[08:53] <Cimi> Saviq, the other branch is still stripping tags..
[08:56] <Cimi> Saviq, how do we want to deal with the logout? https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/logout/+merge/216373
[08:56] <Cimi> quitting is fine?
[08:56] <Saviq> Cimi, yes, see the related unity-mir branch, it deals with everything else
[09:17] <Cimi> Saviq, tags were stripped from the update mir variables branch
[09:17] <Saviq> Cimi, thanks
[09:36] <Cimi> Saviq, on
[09:36] <Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1309135
[09:37] <Cimi> Saviq, basically he created a rating widget with both element displayed (review text and stars) but only stars required
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, that should work
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, only requiring the stars
[09:38] <Cimi> ok
[09:38] <Saviq> Cimi, that's why it's separate to display vs. require
[09:39] <tsdgeos> Saviq: playing with run_on_device vs "installed image" i find that run_on_device seems laggier
[09:40] <Saviq> tsdgeos, CPU busy pushing text through adb?
[09:40] <tsdgeos> maybe is because we're passing the -qmljsdebugger ?
[09:41] <Saviq> tsdgeos, or that, yeah
[09:47] <mhr3> Saviq, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-mir/+bug/1311011
[09:48] <Saviq> mhr3, seen the FIXME there? ;)
[09:48] <Saviq> mhr3, but yeah, confirmed
[09:49] <mhr3> Saviq, nope, no fixme
[09:49] <Saviq> mhr3, well, ok, there's the thing above, says "Hack"
[09:49] <Saviq> mhr3, either way, confirmed
[09:50]  * Saviq wonders if that's still needed, actually... the oxide renderer doesn't have that in its command line...
[09:51] <Saviq> /food
[10:13] <tsdgeos> hmmm
[10:13] <tsdgeos> i'm getting the "Caught an error from create_query(): unity::scopes::TimeoutException: Request timed out after 300 milliseconds" error
[10:13] <tsdgeos> but i do have the scopes running
[10:13] <tsdgeos> any idea why that may happen?
[10:14] <tsdgeos> ok, a restart helped
[10:26] <Cimi> Saviq, if we have required only for the text, but no rating...
[10:26] <Cimi> quite weird a review without a rating
[10:57] <Saviq> Cimi, that depends on what the underlying service implements
[10:57] <Saviq> Cimi, so we need to make sure we support all the cases - even if it seems weird
[11:23] <tsdgeos> he, silly me ^_^
[11:24] <tsdgeos> Saviq: remember when i was confused because by making the filtergridcard have an async loader it should make the list scroll perfectly even if the stuff just showed up blank and loaded later but it didn't?
[11:25] <tsdgeos> well, basically i forgot to make the Card be the sourceComponent of the loader
[11:25] <tsdgeos> so the async wasn't having any effect ^_^
[11:25] <tsdgeos> now if you do that, it's peachy smooth, but feels *ultra* weird
[11:26] <Saviq> tsdgeos, heh
[11:27] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i'll put a branch for you to try, but don't think we can go that way unless we somehow control the async loading better
[11:28] <Saviq> tsdgeos, meaning that you end up with screen completely empty and that after a few seconds the item loads?
[11:28] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yeah
[11:28] <tsdgeos> i mean not "a few seconds"
[11:28] <tsdgeos> but yeah
[11:29] <tsdgeos> we can play with it
[11:29] <tsdgeos> and try to make it so that the text is always there
[11:29] <tsdgeos> but not sure how feasible it is
[11:29] <Saviq> tsdgeos, maybe a placeholder Rectangle { visible: !loader.status == Loader.Ready } would do }
[11:29] <Saviq> -}
[11:29] <tsdgeos> or a fake UShape
[11:30] <tsdgeos> :D
[11:30] <Saviq> yeah, or that
[11:30] <Saviq> but if we say "a fake UShape and title", we're down to async-loading the image ;)
[11:30] <tsdgeos> which is async already
[11:30] <tsdgeos> since it comes from network
[11:30] <tsdgeos> most of the times
[11:30] <tsdgeos> not for the local app
[11:31] <tsdgeos> s
[11:31] <Saviq> exactly, so if we can make it so that we can see a UShape and Text straight away, we need to make it so the actual Card shows them straight away ;)
[11:31] <Saviq> meaning "if it's possible to show shape + text straight away", we need to make it so that the Card does it like that
[11:31] <tsdgeos> well when i said fake UShape i meant an image that looks like an UShape
[11:31] <tsdgeos> not an UShape
[11:33] <tsdgeos> Saviq:  lp:~aacid/unity8/unity8_real_async_loader  you can see how it looks
[11:34] <tsdgeos> it's certainly smoother but awfully looking
[11:34] <Saviq> tsdgeos, kk
[11:34] <tsdgeos> i'll see how can i make it less bad
[11:39] <Saviq> tsdgeos, looks like card sizes got broken, too (see scopes scope - no margin in the middle)
[11:40] <tsdgeos> Saviq: with this patch? or without?
[11:40] <Saviq> tsdgeos, with
[11:40] <tsdgeos> ok
[12:00] <jfi> Hi,about libappindicator, is the 'guide' parameter of app_indicator_set_label supposed to work in trusty? Whatever the way I set it, it does appear to be used. I also does not understand how it can really be useful as the font is not size fixed one. I don't see anyway to change it.
[12:00] <jfi> does *not* appear to be used
[12:30] <Saviq> mhr3, is there a reason for unity8 to wait for scope-ui-starting to return?
[12:30] <Saviq> mhr3, == does scopes-shell deal fine with scope registry starting after the plugin started?
[12:31] <mhr3> Saviq, if it starts within 300ms
[12:31] <Saviq> mhr3, so, no ;)
[12:31] <mhr3> or whatever the timeout is for that
[12:32] <mhr3> might be a second
[12:32] <mhr3> Saviq, shouldn't the emit take like 20ms max?
[12:32] <Saviq> mhr3, yeah, it's fine, just adding a --no-wait to indicators, who don't care
[12:32] <Saviq> mhr3, will not add for scopes-ui-starting
[12:33] <Saviq> mhr3, also, ideas about scope tool triggering the scopes to start? should we just put an emit in tool's main()? can't think of a better solution...
[12:34] <mhr3> Saviq, hm, i find it meh cause it works fine when running through sdk
[12:34] <Saviq> mhr3, bug #1310172
[12:34] <mhr3> you seldom need to debug all *installed* scopes
[12:36] <Saviq> mhr3, sure, please comment on the bug and mark as appropriate?
[12:37] <Saviq> mhr3, maybe we can give up a better error message? maybe something in the UI?
[12:46] <seb128> jfi, try talking to tedg when he's around (he's in Texas so he might not be online yet)
[13:06] <mhr3> Saviq, i'm actually wondering why do we even install a .desktop for it
[13:06] <Saviq> mhr3, indeed
[13:17] <Saviq> mhr3, I already have a branch to drop the .desktop file
[13:46] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ping
[13:46] <Saviq> tsdgeos, wassup?
[13:46] <tsdgeos> Saviq: so i made it so the external thing is not async and what is async is the shape
[13:46] <tsdgeos> so the text is always there on creation
[13:46] <Saviq> tsdgeos, tell me
[13:46] <tsdgeos> it's not as smooth as the other way
[13:46] <tsdgeos> but it's better
[13:46] <tsdgeos> BUT
[13:47] <tsdgeos> there's the problem in which we align the header below the art
[13:47] <tsdgeos> and thus until the art is loaded the text is up and then jumps down
[13:48] <Saviq> should be solvable, though, in case we know the height before its loaded?
[13:49] <Saviq> which is the case for the app cards
[13:49] <paulliu> dandrader: hi, please re-review https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity-mir/logout/+merge/216336
[13:50] <tsdgeos> Saviq: do we? where does it come?
[13:50] <Saviq> mikenagle_, could use your input in bug #1237970
[13:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, from CardTools
[13:50] <Saviq> =-s
[13:50] <Saviq> -s
[13:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, or well, we get aspect-ratio in the template, and that's the aspect ratio of the space in which the art will be
[13:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, respective to card width
[13:52] <Saviq> tsdgeos, right now it's calculated in Card itself, should probably move out to CardTool...
[13:53] <tsdgeos> Saviq: you mean updateWidthHeightBindings ?
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah, in a sense
[13:54] <tsdgeos> but there we need the image to be loaded, no?
[13:54] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but we only need it to maintain the aspect ratio
[13:56] <tsdgeos> i understand what you say
[13:56] <tsdgeos> will try to make it happen D:
[13:59] <Saviq> tsdgeos, basically, as we discussed before, anything that is calculated against components[] or template[] is a candidate for moving into the CardTool
[13:59] <Saviq> at least in aprt
[13:59] <Saviq> part
[14:37] <pete-woods> larsu: hi, we're getting a strange thing happening in HUD where what appear to be invalid menu indexes are being emitted through the items-changed signal (https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/648b0ee396d66bc960c224a5794f5c22850b51ed) see frame #12
[14:38] <pete-woods> wondered if you might have any insight
[14:39]  * larsu looks
[14:40] <pete-woods> it looks like -1 is getting converted into an unsigned int somehow
[14:40] <pete-woods> but why we'd get an index of -1 being sent over the bus, I don't know
[14:41] <pete-woods> it looks to me like the gmenu implementation internally converts -1 into the end of list index
[14:43] <larsu> pete-woods: I don't think it does... can you reproduce this error locally?
[14:43] <larsu> I would like to see the dbus message that was sent
[14:44] <pete-woods> larsu: unfortunately I'm not able to reproduce it, but the method g_dbus_menu_path_signal is directly connected to the dbus signal is it not?
[14:45] <pete-woods> I realise we can't see the other params, though :(
[14:45] <Cimi> Saviq, tsdgeos I noticed latest commits messages by albert on the card optimisation
[14:46] <Cimi> shoouldn't we keep those on max 2 lines?
[14:46] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, that should've gone into Description
[14:46] <Cimi> ok
[14:46] <Saviq> Cimi, not max 2 lines, but something reasonable
[14:46] <pete-woods> larsu: we're planning an MR that just exits HUD in this condition and reports the application that triggered it
[14:47] <pete-woods> we're putting all the debug info we can thing of in there (menu structure, that sorta thing). is there anything specific that would help you figure out what's going on?
[14:47] <pete-woods> *think
[14:48] <larsu> pete-woods: not really. let me check with desrt
[15:13] <larsu> pete-woods: so, there are definitely some input validation issues in gdbusmenumodel. I'll fix those (or desrt might)
[15:13] <larsu> those shouldn't lead to that crash though
[15:13] <larsu> and clearly someone is sending the invalid messages in the first place
[15:16] <pete-woods> larsu: I guess I'm puzzled about how they have managed to get that message through, given that if you look at, e.g. g_menu_insert_item, it bounds the position to be between 0 and the menu length
[15:16] <pete-woods> I guess there must be a crack somewhere it has sneaked through
[15:17] <larsu> right
[15:18] <pete-woods> larsu: there are other instances where it looks like the menu index is reasonable (https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/29678a80c8c2c42e53a74ca04751c29b8d7321d2)
[15:18] <pete-woods> but the client-side copy of the menu structure gets upset when you ask for them
[15:19] <pete-woods> I don't know if this is related or not, and could potentially be memory corruption inside HUD
[15:20] <pete-woods> investigating that case, we're simply accessing position 7 in the menu structure after being told is has been inserted, then gmenumodel asserts that we've given it an invalid index (albeit with a strange error message)
[15:22] <pete-woods> I think (though am not certain) that if you give those accessors an out of bounds index (as far as it is concerned) then you get that "code should not be reached) assertion
[15:24] <larsu> pete-woods: ya, and that makes sense I think, as there's no other way for gmenumodel to report an errror
[15:24] <larsu> basically, if you implement a gmenumodel, you need to do the bounds checking yourself
[15:25] <pete-woods> sure, it's a bit unfriendly to assert, I might prefer a null, but the thing that worries me is that we've just been instructed by the items-changed signal to access that index
[15:26] <pete-woods> it goes, hey, there's new stuff at index 7, okay gimme that menuitem at index 7 then, assert failure
[15:26] <larsu> ya, the input validation is definitely broken
[15:26] <pete-woods> sure, we could check the index range (and we will going forward), but it still makes me worry about what's going on
[15:27] <pete-woods> okay, well as long as you think there's some sanity checking that could be added there
[15:27] <pete-woods> I don't quite understand why the local copy of the menu hasn't been updated in this case, though
[15:27] <pete-woods> but maybe the input is just bad, as you say
[15:28] <pete-woods> I guess we'll have to put some logic into HUD to just block an app as soon as it starts saying "crazy stuff"
[15:28] <larsu> definitely. Especially since these apps can be untrusted
[15:28] <larsu> pete-woods: if you're interested in following the upstream bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728733
[15:28] <Cimi> mzanetti, Saviq autopilot test for this? https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/logout/+merge/216373
[15:29] <pete-woods> larsu: thanks :)
[15:29] <larsu> I'll try to fix that this week, I'm sure seb128 would be fine with a backport
[15:29] <seb128> +1
[15:38] <Saviq> Cimi, probably makes sense, yeah, I'd rather land it soon, though, so if we don't get it, we'll just file a bug that it's missing
[15:38] <Cimi> k
[16:23] <Cimi> no internet at home for me (almost)
[16:24] <Cimi> connected to a broken public ap
[19:26] <josharenson> I'm trying to make unity8 dependent on qt5 v5.2 or greater. Is the only thing I need to change the 'qt5-default' line of the debian/control file?
[19:44] <kgunn> dandrader: ^ josh's question...
[19:44] <kgunn> josharenson: might have to wait till tomorrow on that one
[19:45] <josharenson> kgunn, no problem.. I've tried changing the value to something that would cause the build/app to break (to see if that was the correct pkg), but it won't break
[19:50] <dandrader> josharenson, well, I would add a "(>= 5.2.1)" to all qt packages listed there
[19:50] <josharenson> dandrader: ok, wasn't sure they _all_ needed it or if just 1
[19:51] <dandrader> josharenson, in practice just one should do the job... but changing all is safer and seems more correct IMHO
[19:51] <seb128> josharenson, why do you want to update the depends?
[19:52] <seb128> ideally a lib that changes its abi would bump its symbol/shlibs versions and rdepends would get the correct updated depends
[19:52] <josharenson> seb128 using a feature (QCommandLineParser) that is only available in >5.2.1  If this seems unecessary/bad idea, I can use a different method
[19:53] <seb128> josharenson, you can check with Mirv tomorrow (it's too late for him at this hour I think), I'm unsure if qt uses shlibs/symbols for that api, but otherwise you just need to update the depends for the library that provides QCommandLineParser
[19:55] <josharenson> seb128, alright. it looks like the lib is in libqtcore but since I didn't see a lib with that exact name in the control file
[19:56] <seb128> josharenson, libs are sometime grouped in packages which have a different name
[19:56] <josharenson> ok
[19:56] <seb128> but ask Mirv tomorrow if you want to be sure
[19:56] <seb128> josharenson, or submit a merge request and wait for the review comment
[19:56] <josharenson> seb128, ok thanks. Do you know his timezone?
[19:56] <seb128> whoever reviews it is going to comment on what you did
[19:57] <seb128> he's early european
[19:57] <josharenson> seb128, will do... thats how I got here in the first place
[19:57] <seb128> like 6am utc to 16pm utc
[19:57] <seb128> or somewhere between those
[19:57] <josharenson> alright