[02:03] <maco> anyone else seeing quassel do its word warp just before the last letter in a word instead of at the whitespace?
[02:21] <yofel> yes, Sput said it was an issue with qt4.7beta
[02:22] <maco> ok
[03:16] <crimsun_> jjesse: I'm not sure what you mean in bug 620840. The report clearly shows that the daemon is running.
[06:39] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: Riddell bug 620900
[06:40] <shadeslayer_> oh!!
[06:40] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: thanks :D
[06:40] <shadeslayer_> wheee  : http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/use-linux-now-you-can-video-chat-too.html
[06:41] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: if you can upload k3b from same ppa as well :D
[06:42] <shadeslayer_> cya later.. till then ^_^
[06:48] <nigelb> shadeslayer: squeee!
[06:58] <valorie> nice, when will that be available through Kubuntu?
[06:58] <valorie> since it's a deb, I assume it can be packaged?
[07:30] <jussi> shadeslayer: oooh!!  nice!
[08:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: we've only just now got audio support and then they unroll video for linux :O
[08:29] <apachelogger> valorie: cannot... it is closed source
[08:29] <valorie> ah
[08:30] <valorie> foo
[08:30] <apachelogger> possible could go into canonical's partner repo, but that is for canonical to work out
[08:30] <valorie> the only reason I'd like it is to test my sound
[08:30] <valorie> so far, nothing gets sound
[08:30] <valorie> I wonder if they put a mic in this laptop
[08:30] <valorie> or hooked up the wires
[08:31] <valorie> camera works....
[08:31] <valorie> .....skype is open?
[08:31]  * valorie has skype
[08:32] <apachelogger> valorie: well you could just install google's deb :P
[08:32] <valorie> I could
[08:32] <valorie> but generally prefer to stick with the wisdom of you packaging wizards here
[08:33] <apachelogger> google's debs are as good as ours usually ;)
[08:34] <valorie> well, it was going to be automatically installed in ~/Documents
[08:34] <apachelogger> no
[08:34] <valorie> and since I don't think that's probably the proper place to put it
[08:34] <valorie> I didn't
[08:34] <apachelogger> it would have downloaded the deb :P
[08:34] <apachelogger> there
[08:34] <valorie> which is silly
[08:34] <valorie> I have a downloads folder for that purpose
[08:34] <apachelogger> that is up to the browser
[08:35] <apachelogger> a website cannot dictate where a download should go
[08:35] <valorie> I guess
[08:35] <valorie> perhaps mine got reset at some point
[08:35] <valorie> I found a lot of dreck in Docs folder today
[08:35] <valorie> lol
[08:36] <apachelogger> only ought to be one file :P
[08:36] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/480821/
[08:39] <valorie> I might try it later
[08:40] <valorie> right now I have gchat shut off
[08:40] <valorie> because people keep interrupting!
[08:40] <valorie> get into IRC if you wanna talk, geez
[08:41] <nigelb> lol
[08:45] <apachelogger> on irc I always get highlighted for no good reason :P
[08:45] <apachelogger> which is also not better
[08:47] <valorie> everybody loves ya!
[08:47] <valorie> and values your opinion
[08:47] <valorie> and help
[08:47] <valorie> and all around fluffiness
[08:57] <apachelogger> valorie: unfortunately ;)
[09:01] <apachelogger> oh oh oh
[09:01]  * apachelogger thinks today is neversfelde's bday
[09:01] <apachelogger> neversfelde: happy day of birth!
[09:35] <Sput> maco: yeah, fixed in newer versions of Qt 4.7... the b*stards changed behavior of a text metrics-related function mid-release...
[09:39] <dpm> good morning everyone
[09:40] <dpm> right, I've installed Kubuntu maverick in a VM to test translations. When I chose "Install Kubuntu" on the first screen, it went to the live session instead of starting the installer (actually, to the login screen, it would not login automatically) - is this a known bug?
[09:43] <apachelogger> \o/ final eval done
[09:47] <Riddell> apachelogger: did you pass?
[09:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: I only filled in the eval form
[09:48] <apachelogger> btw, working on a blog post about the techy things of u1-kde
[09:49] <Riddell> good morning dpm
[09:49] <Riddell> are you using an alpha or a daily CD?
[09:49] <Riddell> I've no idea what state the daily CDs are in, ubiquity has had too many changes
[09:49] <dpm> hey Riddell, daily, using TestDrive to test
[09:49] <dpm> ok, I'll fetch an alpha and update
[09:59] <Riddell> shadeslayer: k3b and choqok uploaded, many thanks
[10:00] <Riddell> right, time to dist upgrade, wish me luck
[10:08] <ulysses> cross the fingers
[10:52] <dpm> Riddell, the A3 ISO has the same problem: the installer does not run and it takes you to kdm. There I need to log in (ubuntu/no password). I'm now trying to run the installation from the live session
[10:54] <dpm> no luck with that, either. It kicks me out of the session and I'm back at kdm
[10:57] <apachelogger> opinions on http://imgur.com/1ZDqK
[10:57] <apachelogger> diagram of the internal structures of ubuntuone-kde
[11:00] <apachelogger> right then
[11:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: I am switching rekonq for konqueror
[11:00]  * apachelogger is sick of loosing data
[11:01] <dpm> I'll try the OEM install mode now
[11:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: still getting crashes?
[11:04] <apachelogger> yes
[11:04] <apachelogger> very random too
[11:04] <apachelogger> so it is not even like I could avoid them
[11:12] <Riddell> ooh la la, c'est tout francais
[11:13] <Riddell> except for bluedevil, to be expected
[11:20] <ulysses> Riddell: where comes Maverick's current networkmanager applet from?
[11:21] <Riddell> ulysses: from KDE SVN
[11:21] <Riddell> it's in extragear/network now although we haven't updated in a while (because I tend to update it when suse update it since they're the upstream)
[11:22] <Riddell> agateau: La francais pour "Notes" est "Notes"?
[11:22] <agateau> Riddell: I think so, what's the context?
[11:23] <Riddell> agateau: Kontact sidebar
[11:23] <agateau> Riddell: yes, "Notes" is good
[11:23] <Riddell> aussi "Contacts" "Messages" et "Journal"?
[11:26] <ulysses> Riddell: there are plasma-applet_networkmanagement.po, libknetworkmanager.po and desktop_extragear-base_networkmanager.po in trunk/l10n-kde4/hu/messages/extragear-base, maybe these belongs to the NM applet?
[11:26] <agateau> Riddell: yes
[11:27] <Riddell> ulysses: also knetworkmanager.po ?  or maybe that no longer exists
[11:27] <Riddell> agateau: j'aime "Flux", c'est un mot bon
[11:27] <dpm> Right, OEM installer also not working. I'm going to download the alternate iso and install kubuntu from there... :/
[11:28] <ulysses> Riddell: yes, I didn't see it because it is translated
[11:30] <Riddell> ulysses: what made you look at networkmanager applet?  you noticed it was missing translations?
[11:30] <Riddell> Kontact seems good for translations, guess the 4.4 backport magic worked
[11:30] <ulysses> Riddell: yes, there are untranslated messages
[11:31] <Riddell> ulysses: you're running latest maverick in Hungarian?
[11:32] <ulysses> Riddell: yes, however I didn't rebooted it, and there were language pack updates
[11:33] <Riddell> ulysses: groovy, let me know where else you find missing translations
[11:33] <Riddell> koffice seems a bit patchy with its French translation
[11:34] <Riddell> hmm, koffice is 2.2.1 but koffice-l10n is 2.0
[11:34] <ulysses> oh, we have to work lot on KOffice, the hungarian is only at 57%, and we need 75% to earn
[11:38] <ulysses> KDE upstream translation needs lots of work, but the translator resources are limited:(
[11:45] <rerx> hi! I'm running the Amarok 2.3.2 beta from https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/beta
[11:45] <rerx> unfortunately it loses the options "move/copy to collection" from the context menu in the file browser
[11:45] <rerx> #amarok tell me that it should still be there, so I guess there was an oversight building that package
[11:47] <Riddell> rerx: I have it, right Click on MP3 file Copier dans la Collection -> Collection locale
[11:47] <ulysses> me too, running Kubuntu 10.10 and Amarok <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:48] <rerx> that's strange
[11:48] <Riddell> rerx: got a screenshot?
[11:48] <rerx> I'm running 10.04 with KDE 4.5 from the updates ppa
[11:48] <rerx> I mean backports ppa
[11:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: whee :D
[11:49] <rerx> I'm going to prepare one, just a sec
[11:52] <rerx> here you go: http://www.abload.de/img/context-menu-missing-ohy06.png
[11:55] <shadeslayer> Riddell: also.. choqok's icon is now green :P
[11:56] <shadeslayer> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/choqok
[11:56] <rerx> Riddel: could this be related to running KDE SC 4.5 on Lucid?
[11:57] <Riddell> rerx: wouldn't think so
[11:58] <Riddell> rerx: just checked on 10.04 with KDE Platform 4.4 and Amarok <IP_ADDRESS>, also no problem there
[11:59] <rerx> hmm, I guess I won't be able to avoid building it on my own to try if it makes a difference
[12:01] <shadeslayer> btw are kdepimlibs and kdepim-runtime are located in two different svn locations?
[12:01] <rerx> but that will have to wait a little, thanks for now!
[12:12] <apachelogger> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[12:12] <apachelogger> maco2: ping
[12:15] <Riddell> I love how gnome keyring doesn't tell you why it wants your password
[12:15]  * Riddell tracks down the koffice-l10n build failure
[12:17] <Tm_T> Riddell: and how it steals your keyboard too even when it's not focused
[12:17] <Riddell> system settings doesn't set $LANG, GTK apps are translated as long as you are using qtcurve, openoffice is not
[12:17] <Riddell> ^^ does that seem like a fair summary ?
[12:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: should i upload rekonq 0.5 for lucid to beta backports?
[12:18] <shadeslayer> apparently apachelogger thinks so :P
[12:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: system settings?
[12:19] <apachelogger> you mean the locale KCM?
[12:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[12:21] <Riddell> shadeslayer: can't it go into normal ubuntu backports?
[12:21] <apachelogger> well yeah, we do not patch the KCM other than adding language-selector
[12:21] <shadeslayer> Riddell: afaik deps on kde 4.5
[12:21] <apachelogger> which is the reason JontheEchidna should be given to possibility to take a shot at improving that
[12:22] <Riddell> shadeslayer: surely not, they wouldn't consider bugs that affected 4.5
[12:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: but that's horribly broken surely
[12:22] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i dont follow
[12:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: the language-selector or the locale KCM?
[12:22] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rekonq 0.5 depends on KDE Platform 4.4
[12:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: locale KCM
[12:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: how do you change the setting for non KDE apps?
[12:23] <apachelogger> I do not think that KDE very much is concerned with whether non-integrated apps intregrate far enough to get the locale right
[12:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: language-selector
[12:23] <shadeslayer> really? alright then, backports it is
[12:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: for which you need to change the whole system and you need to have admin rights
[12:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: IMHO the KDE-only widget thing should be replaced by language-selector embedding into the KCM
[12:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, good point
[12:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: maybe it should just drop a script for exporting LANG in the folder with scripts for KDE startup?
[12:25] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes I think so, but I'm amazed this isn't something everyone moans about
[12:25] <apachelogger> then again ... I wonder how we would reliably translate the KDE language codes to system language codes (they surely are different)
[12:25] <Riddell> KDE can hardly slag us off for bad i18n when it can't even set the i18n
[12:25] <Riddell> unless I'm missing something
[12:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: every distro implements their own junk for locale so I doubt people notice
[12:27] <Riddell> wibble
[12:43] <Riddell> how ironic, qt-language-selector isn't translated
[12:49] <apachelogger> lol
[12:59] <apachelogger> dantti: after upgrade the view does not refresh suggesting that one needs to upgrade again or the upgrade was unsuccessful
[12:59] <apachelogger> after refreshing the view is updated
[13:06] <jimhu> Hi
[13:06] <Riddell> hi jimhu
[13:07] <jimhu> Riddell: I'm here to report some problems that are ralated to kimpanel/ibus and im-swtich
[13:08] <Riddell> jimhu: just some problems or does it not work at all?
[13:09] <jimhu> Riddell:First of all, Kubuntu uses ibus as its default input method, but it's a GTK+ program.  Though QTCurve is used to make QT and GTK+ have the same look, ibus does not.
[13:09] <jimhu> Riddell: ibus works great but looks really ugly, since it has a unthemed gtk+ look
[13:10] <jimhu> Riddell:ibus is loaded by im-switch which starts before kde itself starts, so ibus won't apply qtcurve theme
[13:12] <jimhu> Riddell: and i've noticed that im-switch has "ibus-qt" opion which makes ibus uses kimpanel as its frontend.
[13:12] <Riddell> using kimpanel would be the sensible thing, but I've no idea if kimpanel works
[13:12] <jimhu> Riddell:But since the same reason, it won't work at all.
[13:13] <Riddell> it won't work because it gets loaded too soon?
[13:13] <jimhu> Riddell:correctly
[13:14] <jimhu> Riddell:if you start ibus by add the  entry "ibus-daemon --panel=/usr/lib/ibus/ibus-ui-kde" in the "autorun" module in System setting, everything works fine
[13:16] <jimhu> Riddell:the fact that im-switch loads ibus before kde starts breaks the constant look of GTK+ program(ibus itself only) and kimpanel
[13:17] <dpm> Riddell,
 Thank you for fixing these problems. There is also some constant overloading of kdelibs in Kubuntu: it has +320 strings from katepart and other things in kdelibs module.
 Cf.:  https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+lang/uk/+index?start=150&batch=75
 http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/team/uk/kdelibs/
[13:17] <dpm>  This prevents smooth integration with upstream.
[13:17] <Riddell> jimhu: so sounds like we want to fix im-switch to not start ibus but instead put an autostart file for that command when configured to use KDE?
[13:17] <dpm> Any ideas where the extra strings can come from? ^
[13:18] <jimhu> Riddell: Yeah, that will fix everything
[13:19] <Riddell> jimhu: I can't even seem to add kimpanel to my plasma panel :(
[13:20] <jimhu> Riddell:try to add it to desktop and than drag it onto the panel
[13:20] <Riddell> dpm: he's complaining about strings in katepart4.pot ?
[13:20] <yurchor> No, i'm complaining about strings in kdelibs itself.
[13:23] <Riddell> jimhu: so having added kimpanel and run ibus-daemon --panel=/usr/lib/ibus/ibus-ui-kde   how do I get it to input something?
[13:24] <Riddell> I'm using English locale, but how do I tell kimpanel I want to write in Chinese or whatever?
[13:24] <jimhu> Riddell:you should install ibus obviously, and then install some input method, like ibus-pinyin
[13:25] <jimhu> Riddell: you may have to install plasma-widget-kimpanel-backend-ibus
[13:26] <jimhu> Riddell: after that, run ibus-daemon --panel=/usr/lib/ibus/ibus-ui-kde in the terminal
[13:26] <jimhu> Riddell: Open Kate or anything that can input characters
[13:27] <jimhu> Riddell:Press Ctrl+space to switch to PinYin input method, and then input "nihao".
[13:27] <jimhu> Riddell:   Press
[13:29] <jimhu> Riddell: if you have install the proper fonts, you can see "你好" in the bar that comes out
[13:33] <Riddell> hmm, nope, doesn't do anything
[13:34] <shadeslayer> any ideas why i get -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=debugfull: command not found
[13:35] <Riddell> shadeslayer: because you're missing the "cmake" ?
[13:35]  * shadeslayer looks
[13:36] <shadeslayer> Riddell: http://pastebin.com/VpuQU1Gt
[13:36] <Riddell> jimhu: if I click on the pencil icon I just get a menu with "disable" in it, presumably there should be something else there?
[13:36] <shadeslayer> Riddell: line 119
[13:37] <dpm> Riddell, to write in Chinese, the best thing is to use language selector to install the language. It will also install additional fonts and the necessary input methods for ibus
[13:37] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I'd try removing line 118
[13:38] <jimhu> Riddell:http://userbase.kde.org/Tutorials/Kimpanel
[13:38] <jimhu> Riddell: you can refer to this article which explains how to use kimpanel in Kubuntu
[13:39] <shadeslayer> Riddell: same thing
[13:40] <shadeslayer> oh
[13:40] <shadeslayer> ->doofus()
[13:41] <shadeslayer> fixed now
[13:41] <shadeslayer> :)
[13:41] <shadeslayer> ( didnt source :P )
[13:44] <JontheEchidna> We build our packages in debug mode and then strip the debug symbols into a separate package, yes?
[13:44] <apachelogger> blogging is way too exhausting :(
[13:44] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: yep
[13:44] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: lol :P
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> In that case, I believe that as a result qDebug()'s are on by default
[13:45] <apachelogger> srsly I started working on a somewhat more technical blog post about u1-kde like 4 hours ago
[13:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: Qt packages are not built with debugfull by default I think
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> Maybe we could add -DQT_NO_DEBUG to vars.mk
[13:46] <apachelogger> KDE packages should not be using qdebug anyway
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> I'm mainly thinking of libdbusmenu-qt
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> it has srsly annoying qDebug()'s
[13:46] <apachelogger> it ought not be built with KDE build system if it is qt
[13:46] <apachelogger> or manually defie QT_NO_DEBUG
[13:47] <apachelogger> doing it in KDE is probably a bad idea as qDebug ought to only be used if the author deliberately wants to work around kDebug being controllable at runtime
[13:47] <apachelogger> IMHO
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debian
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[13:49] <JontheEchidna> wonder what that means
[13:54] <Riddell> jimhu: well I'm now running in chinese and set the autostart file, still can't type anything chinese
[13:55] <Riddell> chinese is the default system language and input method
[13:57] <Riddell> sigh
[13:59] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: uses /usr/share/kde4/apps/cmake/modules/*-debian.cmake IIRC
[13:59] <apachelogger> oh
[14:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also I think that actually sets QT_NO_DEBUG
[14:00]  * apachelogger looks
[14:00] <apachelogger> ./FindKDE4Internal.cmake:   set(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_DEBIAN         "-DNDEBUG -DQT_NO_DEBUG")
[14:00] <apachelogger> ./FindKDE4Internal.cmake:   set(CMAKE_C_FLAGS_DEBIAN           "-DNDEBUG -DQT_NO_DEBUG"
[14:00] <apachelogger> those vars come from build_type
[14:03] <shadeslayer> the stuff people report.... ( bug 620789 )
[14:04] <Riddell> dpm: well I do see some kate strings in kdelibs4 which are also in katepart4 (where upstream has them)
[14:04] <Riddell> dpm: they're not generated by our packages, so I blame launchpad
[14:04] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: happy birthday :D
[14:06] <shadeslayer> Need to get 128MB/238MB of archives. After unpacking 655MB will be used. << from my own doing :(
[14:06] <jimhu> Riddell: try not to close terminal windows after running that command
[14:06] <shadeslayer> project neon might just make it in time for maverick :P
[14:07] <Riddell> jimhu: how does im-switch start ibus at login?
[14:07] <Riddell> ah, must be /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80im-switch
[14:07] <jimhu> Riddell: it starts ibus before X starts
[14:07] <jimhu> Riddell:yeah
[14:16] <txwikinger> What packages do I need to install to compile Kubuntu themes?
[14:17] <Riddell> what do you mean by Kubuntu themes?
[14:18] <Riddell> ln: creating symbolic link `/home/jr/.xinput.d/en_US': Permission denied
[14:18] <Riddell> I think language-selector is broken ^^
[14:20] <Riddell> Please install following packages: "( plasam-widget-kimpanel-backend-ibus )"
[14:20] <Riddell> in more ways than one, spot the typo ^^
[14:21] <txwikinger> well something that could replace oxygen
[14:21] <txwikinger> Not my question someone asked that and I thought the question itself does not make sebnse really
[14:23] <Riddell> txwikinger: replace oxygen what? icons?  widget style?  plasma theme?
[14:23] <Riddell> system settings will let you do them all anyway
[14:23] <Riddell> but compiling, dunno what he means there
[14:23] <txwikinger> I think it is about creating such a theme
[14:24] <txwikinger> you can do all of that in settings, right?
[14:24] <apachelogger> settings is for settings, not creating
[14:25] <apachelogger> ohhhhh
[14:25]  * apachelogger has odd key mapping issues :O
[14:25] <txwikinger> apachelogger: how do you create them
[14:25] <apachelogger> I wonder why it is that my system always breaks shortly after feature freeze
[14:26] <apachelogger> txwikinger: google:how to create kstyle; google:how to create kwin style; google:how to create kdm theme
[14:26] <txwikinger> ok ok
[14:35] <maco2> apachelogger: pong
[14:35] <apachelogger> maco2: did you ever use the ubuntuone gnome version?
[14:35] <maco2> apachelogger: one one of my laptops. thats how data got to U1 initially
[14:35] <apachelogger> also, do you have gnome-keyring running on your systems?
[14:36]  * apachelogger just noticed that ubuntu-sso might do silly things if both kwallet and gnome-keyring are installed
[14:36] <apachelogger> and ubuntu-sso-gnomekeyring and ubuntu-sso-kwallet for that matter ^^
[14:36] <maco2> the one that had the gnome version has gnome-keyring. i cant figure out how to get it to shush though
[14:37] <maco2> the one im on right now just has the kde kind
[14:40] <maco2> i can try removing the gnomey stuff from the other when i get home from work
[14:47] <apachelogger> hm
[14:47] <apachelogger> I find this all very odd
[14:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/ubuntu-one-technical-aspects/
[14:57]  * apachelogger cannot think straight no more @.@
[14:58] <jussi> apachelogger: you are very odd, so that shouldnt be a suprise :D
[14:58] <apachelogger> right
[14:58]  * jussi hugs apachelogger
[14:58]  * apachelogger rehugs jussi
[15:00] <\sh> apachelogger is an awesome rockstart...:)
[15:00] <\sh> apachelogger: and now you have a lifetime flatrate for the ubuntu one music store? ;)
[15:00] <Riddell> anyone want to file a FFe for bluedevil?
[15:01] <apachelogger> \sh: yeah, sure :P
[15:01] <\sh> apachelogger: lol...good work btw...you really rock :)
[15:02] <\sh> apachelogger: btw did you use inkscape for the diagramm? it really looks like the ones I'm creating for my manager about new HW infrastructure ;)
[15:02] <shadeslayer> im still backtrace-less :/
[15:03] <apachelogger> \sh: yes
[15:03]  * apachelogger is starting to get the hang of doing diagrams in inkscape
[15:03] <shadeslayer> maybe this has something to do with it
[15:03] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.com/UDCb2bCg
[15:05] <shadeslayer> any ideas? ... im not getting traces in my kde-devel account
[15:20] <dpm> Riddell, after a quick test with a new installation, I've seen the first things which are not translated:
[15:20] <dpm> http://imagebin.ca/view/GTCUGk.html
[15:20] <dpm> http://imagebin.ca/view/SBgo6f.html
[15:20] <dpm> http://imagebin.ca/view/hjUj-Kw.html
[15:20] <dpm> http://imagebin.ca/view/cDoiwHPG.html
[15:20] <dpm> Could you help me confirm that these are genuine bugs and if so find out the packages where translations should come from?
[15:21] <dpm> The most visible ones are the menu entries and the system settings app, which is completely untranslated apart from a few items
[15:26] <apachelogger> dpm: run this action https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/+pots/notificationhelper/ca/6/+translate
[15:27] <dpm> nice, not a bug
[15:27] <dpm> thanks apachelogger
[15:27] <apachelogger> dpm: same domain should be the origin of that notification
[15:27] <Riddell> dpm: what language are you using?
[15:28] <dpm> Catalan
[15:28] <apachelogger> dpm: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/+pots/desktop-kubuntu-notification-helper/ca/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=upgrade+not
[15:28] <apachelogger> the untranslated bits in the menu worry me though
[15:28] <dpm> nice, another one done. I'll take care of translating those
[15:29] <dpm> apachelogger, yes, those and system settings not being translated are the ones that look critical to me
[15:29] <apachelogger> hm
[15:29] <apachelogger> well, it does not seem to be a problem with the patch I get german translations for the menu
[15:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you get a translated menu in french?
[15:30] <dpm> There was a message at some point telling me that the language support was not complete, but I discarded it the first time and it never came back since. I'm not sure if that is supposed to make a difference. I believe that message comes from language selector
[15:30] <Riddell> apachelogger: kickoff menu?  yes
[15:31] <apachelogger> ok so it is not the patch that is failing
[15:31] <dpm> I tried to install a new language (German) trying to get that popup back, but then language selector told me that it had had a problem and that it was not possible to install new languages :/
[15:31] <apachelogger> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/kdebase-runtime/+pots/desktop-kdebase-runtime/ca/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=graphics
[15:32] <dpm> Yeah, that one comes from upstream and it's translated, not sure why it's not being loaded
[15:32] <apachelogger> dpm: it should only try to install kde-l10n-foo after installation for additional resources such as sound files and what not
[15:32] <apachelogger> in fact I think it does do that as part of the installation these days
[15:33] <dpm> I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but that's a new installation. Seeing that you are not seeing problems and that no one has complained yet, most probably upgrades are fine for some reason
[15:35] <apachelogger> dpm: can you please try running kbuildsycoca4 and then relogin
[15:35] <apachelogger> better yet
[15:35] <apachelogger> kbuildsycoca4 --noincremental
[15:35] <Riddell> dpm: trying Catalan I get the kickoff menu translated completely
[15:35] <apachelogger> maybe the desktop file cache is out of date
[15:36] <dpm> apachelogger, let me try that
[15:36] <dpm> Riddell, mine is a new installation - is yours as well? The only entry I get translated is the "Ajuda" one (Help)
[15:38] <Riddell> apachelogger: oui
[15:39] <Riddell> dpm: I think I last reinstalled at alpha 3 and have upgraded
[15:39] <Riddell> dpm: what version of language-pack-kde-ca-base do you have installed?
[15:39] <Riddell> dpm: do you have the file /usr/share/locale-langpack/ca/LC_MESSAGES/desktop_kdebase-workspace.mo ?
[15:40] <Riddell> dpm: under System Settings -> Localisation (UN flag icon) what order are the languages?
[15:43] <dpm> Riddell, I've got the latest langpack installed from 3 days ago, the mo file is there. When I first run langage selector there weren't any languages there, so I had to add Catalan (it was already installed, but not on the list). So the list has now only got Catalan. In any case, I had done that already and logged out and in before reporting the problems, and it didn't seem to make any difference.
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> "This library is actually very simple to use but got some fine internals, in fact I spent hours just looking at the code and scrolling through its glory (because there was a bug  )." <-haha
[15:50] <Riddell> dpm: hum, I'm out of ideas then
[16:08] <dpm> Riddell, apachelogger, hm, running 'kbuildsycoca4 --noincremental' logging out and back in did not seem to make a difference
[16:10] <Riddell> dpm: this is from a daily alternate CD?
[16:10] <dpm> yep
[16:24] <dpm> Is rekonq the default browser? I see it is not translated as well. Is that an official KDE app?
[16:25] <Tm_T> dpm: no, it's not part of KDE SC
[16:26] <Tm_T> also IIRC it's not default browser
[16:26] <Riddell> it is currently default browser
[16:26] <Riddell> and its package comes with no translations currently
[16:26] <Tm_T> in Lucid?
[16:26] <dpm> bummer
[16:26] <Riddell> upstream will change that before release but it'll be a first try
[16:27] <dpm> are they using gettext by any chance?
[16:27]  * dpm hopes
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> It's just a useless sidebar at the moment, but it's a start: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasma-desktopha1550
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> need a better Kubuntu icon though
[16:32] <Riddell> dpm: yes
[16:33] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: goodness
[16:33] <dpm> ah, cool. Riddell, do they have any kind of i18n support already in place? Is there anything they might need help with?
[16:34] <Riddell> dpm: yes it's all there, they just haven't entered string freeze for 1.0 yet
[16:34] <Riddell> although that might be today
[16:36] <dpm> Riddell, so, if all is there, and regardless of the string freeze not being in place, could we not already import the .pot template in the package. I'm just thinking in terms of doing it as early as possible to ensure it is translatable in Maverick. Upstream could also benefit from the Ubuntu translators contributions
[16:37] <Riddell> dpm: I assumed we did
[16:38] <dpm> Riddell, oh, we do, we do. I just hadn't realised. It's all here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/rekonq
[16:39] <shadeslayer> :o
[16:39] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: i want to help!
[16:39] <shadeslayer> with kubuntu software center
[16:40] <shadeslayer> i might just be able to learn something :P
[16:43] <Riddell> there was me thinking you wanted to do MIRs and FFe for bluedevil :)
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> bug 614699 needs taking care of, too
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> (s/MOTO/MOTU)
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> anyways, I have to wait until I open muon trunk, which means I have to make a 1.0.x branch, which means I have to wait until I can move it out of kdereview in 6 days
[16:45] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i can, will have to wait till sunday tho :P
[16:46] <shadeslayer> and more work can be done on tuesday.. holiday :P
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> But I'm not sure what junior jobs would be available, other than maybe coding the status bar
[16:47] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: anything will do :P
[16:48] <apachelogger> dpm: I have a feeling that rekonq will become un-defaulted though
[16:48] <dpm> apachelogger, why is that? And what's going to be the default, if that happens?
[16:49] <apachelogger> back to konqueror because rekonq is made out of crash
[16:49] <dpm> hm
[16:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: im trying to fix rekonq whenever i haz the time ;)
[16:50] <shadeslayer> which is not alot these days seeing that my teachers are frickin loading me up with assignments
[16:50]  * apachelogger feels compelled to just switch to firefox so that kubuntu has a working browser just once
[17:02] <apachelogger> did something break in the kernel?
[17:03]  * apachelogger got loads and loads of traces when booting
[17:03]  * apachelogger is now using windows :P
[17:03] <Riddell> I do too
[17:04] <apachelogger> hm
[17:04] <apachelogger> not good
[17:18] <Riddell> dpm: well I can't install from today's daily, it gives me a red screen with error in Catalan which I can't understand
[17:18] <Riddell> so I can't recreate your issue
[17:19] <dpm> Riddell, right, what was the error text and where did it appear?
[17:19] <Riddell> in the installer during main package install
[17:20] <dpm> can you do a screenshot if it is running in a VM?
[17:21] <shadeslayer> Nightrose: help!
[17:21] <Riddell> http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/install.jpeg
[17:21] <shadeslayer> amarok cries with my ipod :(
[17:21] <shadeslayer> something about not being able to initialse it
[17:21] <shadeslayer> *initialize
[17:22] <shadeslayer> :'( http://imgur.com/lwvUk
[17:23] <shadeslayer> and then going through the hoops i get http://imgur.com/TrhMC
[17:25]  * apachelogger declares maverick broken
[17:26]  * shadeslayer declares amarok broken
[17:26] <maco> Riddell: why is your vbox chinese?
[17:26] <apachelogger> ehm
[17:27] <apachelogger> failsafe
[17:27] <apachelogger> is a work of crossdesktopness
[17:27] <apachelogger> if it used gdm explicitly anymore I am sure we could sell it as upstream work
[17:29] <dpm> Riddell, here's the translation: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/481028/
[17:29] <Riddell> maco: the real question is why is my input not chinese :(
[17:29] <apachelogger> and the fact that my inputs are being rendered to death by Somethin in maverick does not make me happy
[17:29] <apachelogger> time to rant away
[17:29] <maco> Riddell: setting your reading language and your keyboard layout or IME are two different operations?
[17:36] <shadeslayer> debfx: wheres my amarok 2.3.2!!??
[17:36] <Riddell> ?
[17:36] <Riddell> see kubuntu.org
[17:37] <shadeslayer> ppa!!!!
[18:24] <Riddell> dantti_: kpackagekit has no translations?
[18:25] <Riddell> or rather, I packaged it from svn without translations, where can I get them?
[18:25] <dantti_> Riddell: I'll ask probably this weekend for it, since I broke many of them
[18:26] <dantti_> well normally the guy who package it for fedora give me the files he grabs from kde svn
[18:26] <Riddell> fair enough, extracting translations from svn can be fiddly
[18:27] <dantti_> I have now just 3 issues before I belive it's stable :P the hardest one is to fix KCMultiDialog
[18:27] <dantti_> which btw I don't know if I ask you to patch kde 4.5.0 or if I stay with an internally fixed version of it
[18:28] <dantti_> before it can go upstream
[18:29] <Riddell> dantti_: is that the same issue as k3b had?
[18:30] <dantti_> I'm not aware of it
[18:30] <dantti_> the issue is that this class if broken since I know it...
[18:30] <dantti_> it connects all KCM slots to the buttons so you click apply and it call save() in all of them :P
[18:36] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: presumably we don't need qapt-batch in the seeds?  it'll be brought in by whatever needs it
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: Presumably.  (install-package was in the seed before qapt-batch, so I assumed there was a reason)
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> but if there's not, then it's not needed in the seed
[18:37] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: where are translations for qapt done?
[18:37] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: kde svn
[18:38] <JontheEchidna> It doesn't have any .desktop files, so the .po's shipped with the tarball have all the l10n-y goodness
[18:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: where is it in svn?
[18:40] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: kdereview (http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n-kde4/templates/messages/kdereview/ for l10n)
[18:40] <Riddell> thanks
[18:40] <JontheEchidna> should move to extragear in a week tho
[18:42] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: what about kcm-gtk, where are the translations from that?
[18:42] <Riddell> I see them in the package, where do they come from?
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> Those are stored in the source repository in bzr. They came from launchpad + people emailing them to me
[18:43] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: so just use https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/kcm-gtk ?
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[18:50] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: any idea where kcm-touchpad gets its translations?
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> launchpad and people emailing the author, iirc
[18:53] <Riddell> kubuntu specific translations listed at bottom of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/TranslationsDay
[18:53] <Riddell> let me know if you can think of any that are missed
[18:54] <Riddell> dpm: can we get those priorities in launchpad?
[18:54] <dpm> Riddell, sure, I need to go in a bit, but I'll take care of arranging them today
[18:55] <dpm> Riddell, after installing a few updates on that alternate iso system, the menus appear now translated. No idea what happened there
[18:55] <dpm> Also, the desktop entry for usb creator appears untranslated. Any ideas if it's handled differently from the one used in Ubuntu?
[18:56] <Riddell> shouldn't be
[18:57] <Riddell> but it's on the needs checking list in the wiki page above so I'll look at it later
[18:57]  * Riddell out
[18:57] <dpm> Riddell, ok, have a good weekend and see you on Monday
[18:59] <dpm> Does anyone know what's up with  qaptbatch? It's listed as Kubuntu-specific, but translators are asked to translate in SVN? Why can't the translations be fetched from LP and committed all at once? Not many Ubuntu translators have got upstream svn accounts
[19:01] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: maverick is truly broken
[19:01] <apachelogger> told ya
[19:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell: small rekonq update, were about to enter FF
[19:02] <shadeslayer> just deciding whether to put the bookmark star on the left or right :P
[19:03] <shadeslayer> AND... we might not have a 1.0 release... adjam is thinking of a 0.6 release
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> dpm: Hmm, I wouldn't really call it Kubuntu-specific. Debian could package it if they wanted, too
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> obviously not during their freeze and all, but there's nothing stopping any debain-based distro from using it
[19:03] <dpm> where is the upstream?
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> inside kde svn
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdereview/libqapt/ <- source code
[19:05] <dpm> right, then we should take it off that list
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> done
[19:06] <dpm> and what's up with qapt, same situation?
[19:06] <apachelogger> kde rev 995209
[19:07] <dpm> ah, I see, it's the same thing, sorry
[20:16] <dantti_> Riddell: and btw yesterday I fixed packagekit to emit the speed of downloads...  http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasma-desktopq13253  and today I improved how aptcc emits installing packages :)
[20:47] <odla> may i ask what menu bar this is and is there a way to get this global bar on lucid? http://jontheechidna.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/oneperntoh.png
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> odla: plasma-widget-menubar. Not sure about it's lucid availability
[20:48] <odla> JontheEchidna: thanks ... does it work just with Qt or Qt, GTK, FF, and OO.org?
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> It should work with regular Qt and GTK. FF and OO.org have to be patched
[20:48] <odla> thanks
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> though I don't know if those apps have patches yet...
[21:06] <nigelb> gah, just when I looking for him... Johntheechidna...
[21:33] <ejat> apachelogger: will ya backport the ubuntuone-kde for lucid ?
[22:19] <ScottK> ejat: No.  Too many incompatible changes in Ubuntu One packages.
[22:24] <maco> nigelb: we nicknamed him Jon the Taco at UDS Dallas
[22:25] <nigelb> maco: Noted for Future.  Why may I ask?
[22:26] <maco> nigelb: because for all of us who've had mexican food, "enchilada" is what we read "echidna" as at a glance, so someone (nixernal?) actually said "jon the enchilada" to refer to him. only, thats long to type, so we shortened it to an easier-to-type mexican food: tao
[22:26] <maco> *taco
[22:27] <maco> (and yet i still cant...)
[22:28] <nigelb> maco: hahaha
[22:28] <nigelb> you typed enchilada correct and screwed up taco.  the irony.
[22:28] <maco> i tend to misspell the last word before i hit enter
[22:29] <maco> because the rest of 'em i have time to backspace before i hit enter :P
[22:29] <nigelb> LOL
[22:51] <ejat> ScottK: thanks for da info .. so its mean .. all the dependecies are all in maverick .. rite?
[22:52] <ScottK> Yes, but I'm not familiar with the details.
[22:52] <ejat> its ok ..


[09:44] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait a minute I saw yesterday's logs and found that genii-around is doing the session for you or am I wrong?
[09:44] <smartboyhw> ailo, ^
[09:44] <ailo> smartboyhw: No, he pasted my writing in
[09:44] <smartboyhw> ailo, oh why?
[09:45] <ailo> smartboyhw: No one told me I needed to authorize the session myself
[09:45] <smartboyhw> ailo, er............ what?
[09:45] <ailo> So, when it was my time, the place was pretty emtpy
[09:45] <ailo> I did my thing in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and genii-around pasted the text for me, for the logs
[09:45] <smartboyhw> Hmm pretty weird......:P
[09:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: Apparently, you need a Ubuntu irc cloak to be able to do the athorization
[09:46] <smartboyhw> Anyway we aren't including Wubi right? There was a bug 1070682
[09:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: Head to #ubuntu-classroom-backstage in good time, to get some info, etc
[09:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: Let's add that to the blueprints (I'll do it)
[09:46] <smartboyhw> ailo, actually I tell you what... That was the organizer's problem
[09:47] <smartboyhw> Apparently they forgot to put you into the fridge calendar for Ubuntu Learning events, so you don't get to be authorized
[09:47] <smartboyhw> ailo, I may go and ask why they forgot
[09:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: Well, I think he thought I knew how things worked. Doesn't matter. I only got one questions, so I don't think anyone missed anything
[09:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: Forget about it
[09:48] <smartboyhw> ailo, Ah:P
[09:48] <smartboyhw> Yeah anyway:P
[10:19] <smartboyhw> ailo, you created the blueprint already? Good
[10:21] <ailo> smartboyhw: Yes, I'm starting some work on that now. It's still in drafting stage, so please use the wiki until the launchpad blueprint is ready (I should have waited with subscribing everyone, thinking of it)
[10:21] <smartboyhw> LOL
[10:28] <smartboyhw> ailo, I have a thought: Since we are gonna focus on development and testing, can we add a ubuntustudio-r-testing or ubuntustudio-r-development that sort of thing? I would love to see a seperate blueprint for testing
[10:31] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, ^
[10:43] <ailo> smartboyhw: Would you mind writing about that on the mail list? As for development, no. Cause the whole blueprint is development
[10:43] <smartboyhw> ailo, :D
[10:43] <ailo> smartboyhw: As for testing, all I can think of is docs for testing, which is already suggested
[10:44] <ailo> smartboyhw: I will try to organize the blueprints as well as I can, according to what people suggest, and how I interpret their suggestions
[10:45] <smartboyhw> ailo, actually I think of one work item now. How do we PROMOTE to contribute for us? We have developer documentation, but then how can we attract them to help?
[10:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: That is also something under development
[10:46] <smartboyhw> ailo, gd:P
[10:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: We don't have dev docs yet, which we need before we start inviting lots of people
[10:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: Since you are interested in testing, I would suggest you think more about that.
[10:47] <smartboyhw> ailo, I think I will do the testing documentation:D (Mostly copied from Wiki pages, and my session about 3.25 hours later)
[10:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: You are welcome to do that. And please be prepared for opinions about it. I, especially will want to review everything doc related
[10:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: You can start working on things even before there's a blueprint or a workitem for it
[10:48] <smartboyhw> ailo, yeah you are the doc lead. What opinions do you want to list
[10:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: Just that you make sure, it's not already under development
[10:48] <smartboyhw> ailo, OK
[10:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: I don't have any opinions before I have something to have opinions about :)
[10:49] <smartboyhw> LOL
[10:49] <ailo> smartboyhw: But, as you already know, we will want the testing to be multimedia specific mostly, and leave Ubuntu/Xubuntu testing for those distros
[10:49] <smartboyhw> ailo, ok:P
[10:50] <smartboyhw> Hi scott-work came so early?
[10:51] <scott-work> goog morning smartboyhw , yes, i did. i spent the majority of my day in meetings and addressing problems for others that i couldn't get my own work done
[10:51] <smartboyhw> scott-work, ah
[10:51] <scott-work> but such is the life of a supervisor/acting-manager
[10:51] <smartboyhw> scott-work, add oil
[10:51] <ailo> Recently, I'm not eating as well, cause I'm too busy to work out. This is not good :(. I'll need to bring my running shoes to UDS
[10:51] <astraljava> smartboyhw: I don't think a separate testing blueprint for a particular flavor makes much sense, unless it's a very specific area of testing. Only things that I can come up with would be related to some diverse multimedia-related tools.
[10:52] <scott-work> add oil? i do not understand
[10:52] <smartboyhw> scott-work, it means giving support (in Hong Kong-ese:P)
[10:52] <scott-work> ailo: i am excited for you to go to UDS!
[10:52] <smartboyhw> astraljava, ah alright
[10:52] <scott-work> it was a very, very moving and inspirational moment for me
[10:52] <smartboyhw> One day if UDS is coming to Hong Kong (just mentioned in Ask Mark Session) I will attend for sure
[10:52] <ailo> scott-work: Yeah, it will be great fun to meet some of the people you only see nick names for
[10:53] <scott-work> the biggest suggestion i can think of is to introduce yourself to as many people as you can and build relationships
[10:53] <ailo> We will need to do documentation for testing, so it at least falls under that category
[10:53] <scott-work> the second biggest suggestion is to write people's names down :P
[10:53] <ailo> scott-work: Yeah, that's usually not my strong point, but I'm planning to :)
[10:53] <astraljava> smartboyhw: If you're interested in developing the testing process, you should talk to Nick and Gema, and Phill. I'm sure they'll have blueprints dedicated for such things.
[10:54] <ailo> scott-work: And, remembering names is another problem I have
[10:54] <smartboyhw> astraljava, I need to wait for Nick to finish his holiday:P
[10:54]  * scott-work actually had to write down names and a short sentence describing them, perhaps a visual cue or a personality type
[10:54] <astraljava> Yeah ok, but then that means that side of dev hasn't started yet.
[10:54] <smartboyhw> astraljava, I will ask don't worry;p
[10:55] <smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
[10:55] <scott-work> i would expect that we would have a more generalized 'documentation' blueprint, perhaps?
[10:55] <scott-work> for dev stuff, user stuff, testing stuff, maybe "our" dev stuff
[10:55] <ailo> scott-work: I've only started the blueprints, but I'm actually dividing docs into subgroups
[10:55] <scott-work> define where stuff goes, i.e. on the website or the wiki
[10:55] <scott-work> etc, etc, etc
[10:56] <ailo> I don't think we need to decide where things end up as a first step
[10:56] <smartboyhw> scott-work, he did I think
[10:56] <scott-work> i was going to look at the blueprint brainstorming page again this morning, look at your additions, and make any changes
[10:56] <smartboyhw> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-ubuntustudio-r-documentation
[10:56] <ailo> First create the material, then edit it
[10:56] <scott-work> ailo: i meant, more of where the documentation should reside
[10:56] <scott-work> i feel pretty strongly that all user docs should be on the website
[10:57] <smartboyhw> scott-work, I feel very strongly that basic user docs should be on the computer
[10:57] <scott-work> the dev stuff (both for us and new devs) and maybe the testing stuff might be on the wiki
[10:57] <scott-work> lol, smartboyhw
[10:57] <ailo> scott-work: Yeah, I know. But, first we need to create the docs, so where they go may be a question answered best after we have it done
[10:57] <smartboyhw> scott-work, not lol It is a belief for me
[10:57] <smartboyhw> The dev stuff should be on wiki though, makes more sense
[10:58] <scott-work> i would go to the point of saying that i would "abandon" the user.ubuntu.com pages since my experience has been that most users (who are not also into ubuntu) find out information, including download links, from the website
[10:58] <scott-work> therefore, i would say the website should be the nexus for all user information and activities
[10:58] <ailo> Currently, I'm not sure we will get a full user documentation in place for this cycle. I know I can do the audio workflow, and some general stuff, etc. But, to do the other workflows would mean a lot of investigation and research for me, which I will not have time for
[10:59] <scott-work> ailo: understood. i can help with the video and graphics (not make them great, but certainly improve them) and photogrphay and publishing might have to wait until next cycle
[10:59] <scott-work> ailo: i wanted to ask, why does all the headings have "Q-" before them? should it be "R-"?
[11:00] <ailo> I think the community wiki is a good place to start, and once we have something that is good enough for the website, we can always just copy and paste
[11:00] <smartboyhw> scott-work, ailo did change the headings
[11:00] <ailo> scott-work: I changed that :P
[11:00] <scott-work> ailo: good. i was confused for a bit :)
[11:00] <ailo> scott-work: I didn't know what they were for, until I started thinking more about it. Just used them as headings
[11:01] <ailo> I'm going back to the "office"
[11:02] <scott-work> ailo: i suppose i have two main concerns about the docs: i already mentioned that i believe most users go to the website primarily for information, but also i wanted to avoid doubling our efforts to maintain two sets of docs
[11:02]  * scott-work realizes that "doubling efforts" isn't literallly 2x the work in this case
[11:02] <smartboyhw> I think the most important thing is: Can ailo handle BOTH docs at a time
[11:03] <ailo> scott-work: The wiki can be scrapped, later. Or used in some other way. But, it is a much better place to work from initially, I feel
[11:04] <ailo> I don't propose dual sets of docs. Just one for development, and perhaps when it is done, another for publishing
[11:04] <ailo> bbs
[11:06] <scott-work> good point about starting in the wiki
[11:12] <scott-work> i think ai.lo said this in the wiki page, but i really would like to aggressively campaign for crowdsourcing more contributions from users, like art, etc
[11:13] <scott-work> i should also point out that dick macinnis has (and probably still is) functioning as "art lead"
[11:13] <scott-work> he is capable and wants to collaborate on ideas as well
[11:14] <scott-work> and hopefully to avoid an conflict, this isn't a binary situation; this or that. we can still crowdsource art but also have dick macinnis sort through or work with user submissions
[11:18] <ailo-w> heh, back at the office, and again, heading home
[11:21] <smartboyhw> ........What?
[11:24] <astraljava> scott-work: Cool. Is he ever on in here?
[11:25] <scott-work> astraljava: sometimes he comes on, but not very often at all
[11:25] <astraljava> What's his nick of choice, then?
[11:25] <scott-work> he is a working musician so i'm not sure how often he has time to idle here
[11:25] <astraljava> Oh, I'm not worrying about that.
[11:26] <astraljava> scott-work: Your opinion on Between the Buried And Me?
[11:26] <smartboyhw> Who?
[11:34] <ailo> That was a well spent half an hour :P. Well, i got that excercise I was just complaining about not getting
[11:35] <scott-work> astraljava: i haven't heard much from them, probably just a song or two on the radio
[11:35]  * scott-work is pretty insular these days about music and listens to mostly talk radio or podcasts
[11:35]  * scott-work admits he is getting old :P
[11:39] <smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
[11:40] <scott-work> astraljava: i did manage to find a way to discard all emails from a particular domain in mailman
[11:41]  * scott-work is tired of having to discard the practically daily emails from @loresiaroles.com
[11:41] <smartboyhw> LOL
[11:42] <knome> scott-work, are you sure that works? i think i did some filtering and that made everything not pass O:)
[11:43] <scott-work> in Privacy options... -> Sender Filters i added      ^[^<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:43] <knome> mmh
[11:43] <scott-work> which i know have an email notification of an auto-discard
[11:43] <scott-work> knome: i dug into the mailman docs to find this
[11:43] <knome> hehe
[11:43] <scott-work> i was worried as well because it looks scary :P
[11:44] <astraljava> scott-work: Cool. I assume we won't run into many issues before the cd build mails start coming in again. :)
[11:44] <scott-work> i (and others apparently) were trying the wildcard<EMAIL_ADDRESS>which wasn't working
[11:44] <scott-work> lol, astraljava , true, but hopefully these work again
[12:01] <scott-work> one goal for me this cycle is to start creating informative/tutorial videos for ubuntu studio
[12:01] <scott-work> it would be nice to also add voice over translations as well
[12:02] <scott-work> youtube allows for subtitles easily, but it would be very nice if we could have audio translations for each of the videos as well
[12:02] <scott-work> i would happily and easily replace the english audio with other languages if they could be provided
[12:02] <knome> does vimeo or some other service support that then?
[12:03] <scott-work> knome: i do not know much about vimeo, i have used it some in the past, but not recently
[12:05] <scott-work> quick google search does not show that vimeo can do subtitles at this point
[12:05] <scott-work> although there are third party apps to do this
[12:06] <scott-work> of course it could also be simply added to the video itself, regardless of where it is hosted
[12:06] <knome> mm
[12:08] <scott-work> i believe youtube would allow you to host a single video but add various subtitle translations to that file
[12:08] <knome> mmh, don't know
[12:08] <scott-work> i would expect that people would prefer to have the audio in their native language rather than a subtitle translation
[12:09] <scott-work> which results in more videos (of the same content) but this is hosting/player agnostic then
[12:09] <scott-work> either way, i plan to start within a month or so
[12:10] <scott-work> i'll keep the original files so translations can be sussed out at some point if we decide to do them
[12:11] <scott-work> knome: what application is the xubuntu help in?
[12:11] <scott-work> yelp?
[12:11] <knome> scott-work, firefocx
[12:11] <knome> -c
[12:11] <scott-work> oh, is that like html?
[12:12] <knome> yep
[12:12] <scott-work> okay. that seems like a better way to do than a particular application format
[12:13] <scott-work> i think yelp is a restaurant rating service now that i think about it. i wonder what application i was thinking about.
[12:13] <smartboyhw> LOL
[12:13] <smartboyhw> restaurant rating;P
[12:13] <knome> yelp probably
[12:13] <knome> i think the gnome docs are on yelp, and that's why yelp is on xubuntu too
[12:14] <scott-work> smartboyhw: really...http://www.yelp.com/houston
[12:14] <scott-work> oh, so yelp is both, and i was right...and wrong :P
[12:18] <scott-work> what is nice about html is that i believe you can create and edits the docs in libre office or even microsoft word, and export to html
[12:19] <knome> urrr..
[12:19] <knome> well
[12:19] <knome> they export awful html
[12:19] <knome> xubuntu docs are in docbook and converted to html
[12:20] <scott-work> ah, that is good to know
[12:20] <scott-work> question: does anyone else use different background images (or wallpapers) for the different workspaces or monitors?
[12:21] <knome> well, we used to ship two wallpapers for precise, left and right, for this purpose
[12:21] <smartboyhw> No
[13:17] <len-dt> scott-work, once I get working not much of the BG shows anyway :)
[13:37] <ailo> scott-work: Feels like we're really putting up high goals for this release
[13:37] <smartboyhw> ailo, we ARE:D
[13:38] <ailo> We really should try get more people involved. I'll work double time on dev docs for this reason
[13:38] <smartboyhw> ailo, WOW....................
[13:38]  * smartboyhw is amazed
[14:07] <ailo> hmm, not much use looking at the dependency tree https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-r-flavor-ubuntustudio
[14:09] <len-dt> ailo, ya I can't read it :)
[14:14] <len-dt> The tool tips work though and I can read those.
[14:15]  * len-dt is off to work...
[14:15] <ailo> len-dt: Ah, good
[14:15] <ailo> I should probably rename them to something short and easily read
[14:35] <holstein> ailo: how did the presentation go?
[14:48] <ailo> holstein: I was never athorized to #ubuntu-classroom when I was to go on, so I did my thing at #ubuntustudio-chate
[14:48] <ailo> #ubuntustudio-classroom-chat *
[14:48] <scott-work> knome: do you recall the name of the package you include the help files or the release notes?
[14:49] <ailo> Someone was kind to paste the entire session to the correct channel afterwards. I only got one question
[14:49] <scott-work> oh, i had a comment on my blog i wanted to share, let me dig it up
[14:49] <scott-work> Hey there ubuntu, Just installed 12.10 over 12.04 Don't know what you guys did, it works at least 10% faster. Great job.
[14:50] <scott-work> this was for the ubuntu studio 12.10 release announcement so i'm pretty sure he knew this was about ubuntu STUDIO, but again, maybe not
[14:50] <holstein> yeah... thats a good comment
[14:50] <scott-work> it probably will make len-dt feel good about his work :)
[14:50] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:50] <holstein> for that one person and hardware case... though i fine 12.10 peppy too
[14:51] <holstein> find*
[14:51] <scott-work> did we ever change the website to announce 12.10 release?
[14:51]  * holstein checks
[14:51] <ailo> scott-work: It's announced in the news page
[14:51] <ailo> But, we don't have anything on the front page
[14:51] <holstein> http://ubuntustudio.org/download/ is up to date it seems
[14:51] <ailo> It's all up to date
[14:52] <holstein> yeah... i think its good like that
[14:52] <holstein> when you hit download, you get the current iso
[14:52] <ailo> We could add a new slide for, 12.10 just released
[14:53] <holstein> eh.. i say keep it easy
[14:53] <holstein> now we just edit some text to stay up to date
[14:56] <ailo> It's not a big thing to do, adding one slide. Just write some text, and add a picture for it. Commonly, you have some sort of news on the front page about new releases
[14:56] <ailo> You can either write some text on the page itself, or add a slide (if it's the first in line, it will be the first thing you see when you open the site)
[14:58] <ailo> holstein: Just look at any other derivative
[14:58] <ailo> Or, Ubuntu itself
[14:58]  * smartboyhw is back
[14:58] <smartboyhw> from the session
[14:59] <scott-work> in ways i miss having the news items on the home page (but realizes others don't feel the same)
[15:00] <scott-work> but ubuntu and kubuntu has a either an image stating "*buntu 12.10" and/or a button to download 12.10
[15:01] <scott-work> xubuntu has a "blog feed" section that shows xubuntu 12.10 as released
[15:01] <scott-work> therefore all have it announce in some way on the landing page
[15:01] <scott-work> heh, lubuntu also has it posted on their landing page as a news feed
[15:02] <smartboyhw> we should yhen
[15:02] <smartboyhw> *then
[15:17] <scott-work> i think it was stochasti that was a big fan of keeping the landing page clean
[15:17]  * scott-work isn't implying that this is the way it _should_ be, just noted who he remembered favoured this approach
[15:17] <smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
[15:18] <smartboyhw> What I think is that: Why can't we announce alpha and beta releases on the website?
[15:18] <smartboyhw> Only final releases available: Too dull
[15:18] <ailo> That would be a good idea, to get more testers
[15:18] <ailo> An idea for next time around
[15:18] <smartboyhw> :D
[15:19] <ailo> astraljava: I think I found a way to use the ubuntustudio team for a good purpose further on
[15:20] <smartboyhw> ailo, oh?
[15:20] <ailo> astraljava: We should start sending mails to that team on things like asking for participants for testing, etc
[15:20] <smartboyhw> ailo, ah good suggestion, but then we already have the -users mailing list for that...
[15:20] <ailo> I think people who join that team probably were hoping to contribute in one way or another
[15:21] <ailo> smartboyhw: We don't need to put all our eggs in one basket
[15:21] <smartboyhw> ailo, !?
[15:21] <smartboyhw> can't understand this acronym
[15:22] <ailo> smartboyhw: If the basket falls, all eggs are broken. If you use many baskets, a few eggs spilled is not the end of the world
[15:22] <ailo> It's a common saying
[15:22] <smartboyhw> OK so Basket 1. -users mail list 2. ~ubuntustudio LP team 3. -devel mail list 4. ubuntustudio.org am I wrong?
[15:22] <ailo> smartboyhw: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+all+eggs+in+one+basket
[15:23] <ailo> smartboyhw: In this case, we have a team which we are not using for anything good.
[15:23] <smartboyhw> Ok sorry I don't know much about idioms
[15:23] <ailo> So, why not use it for something, which I believe it's members are even expecting it to be used for
[15:23] <smartboyhw> ailo, make good use of it and wait: Isn't there a ~ubuntustudio-testing LP team?
[15:25] <ailo> smartboyhw: Yes. But the person who has that team is not active right now.
[15:25] <ailo> All though, we should try to put all teams into good use
[15:26] <ailo> the ubuntustudio team would be a good way to reach users who might want to help
[15:31] <smartboyhw> ailo, I may contact that person to take over the ~ubuntustudio-testers team to you or me then. Will try
[15:31] <smartboyhw> ailo, wait that guy is stochastic !
[15:32] <ailo> Ah, he's online even
[15:32] <ailo> smartboyhw: Well, go ahead and ask
[15:32] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:32] <smartboyhw> stochastic, you here?
[15:32] <smartboyhw> PING
[15:42] <ailo> stochastic: As perhaps you read from the backscroll (when you returned), we were wondering if it were possible to overtake the -testing team. smartboyhw would probably like to use it for something (yet undefined)
[15:45] <ailo> holstein: Something you could do? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations
[15:46] <ailo> Ah, I still need to work on the wiki page a bit, but one could start looking at how to reach out in the media
[15:46] <smartboyhw> public relations!
[15:47] <ailo> Yeah, sounds really professional. Let's try to make it that too
[15:47] <smartboyhw> If holstein can do it, should we learn Xubuntu for having a marketing lead
[15:47] <smartboyhw> and get holstein to do it
[15:48] <smartboyhw> God that blueprint dependency tree is killing me...How on Earth do we have so many blueprints?
[15:48] <ailo> I think they could have made the imaging of it a bit more flexible
[15:49] <ailo> But, the dependency tree is not that important
[15:49] <ailo> It's the workitems
[15:49] <ailo> And we should try to get people to work on specific blueprints, so not everyone is working on everything
[15:50] <smartboyhw> As I say I will mainly work on the testing documentation
[15:51] <smartboyhw> So maybe we could do "Assignee" changed?
[15:51] <smartboyhw> *changes
[15:52] <ailo> smartboyhw: You remember when I talked about how it's bad if everyone in a football team are all chasing the ball?
[15:52] <smartboyhw> ailo, stop using idioms please.......:(
[15:52] <ailo> smartboyhw: I will take care of the details, but if you do spot something that is not right, please do tell
[15:52] <smartboyhw> Just talk straight
[15:53] <scott-work> i have items that i would like to add to the public relations blueprint. quite a lot actually :D
[15:54] <smartboyhw> bye all anyway:P
[15:54] <ailo> see you around smartboyhw
[15:54] <scott-work> i wouldn't mind heading that blueprint up if no one in particular feels strongly about doing it
[15:54] <scott-work> by smartboyhw
[15:54] <ailo> scott-work: Go crazy, why not?
[15:54] <scott-work> hehe
[15:55] <ailo> It was the first blueprint I started adding workitems for
[15:55] <smartboyhw> ailo, add oil:P
[15:56] <scott-work> lol, he keeps telling me that as well
[15:56] <ailo> Yeah, seems like common expression in HK
[15:56] <ailo> To boost morale, perhaps
[15:56] <scott-work> i am thinking that the PR wiki page could be the final result of the blueprint using the whiteboard (on the blueprint) to suss out the details and include notes
[15:56] <scott-work> wow, poorly written sentence
[15:57] <ailo> IRC curse, inflicting on your writing skills
[15:57] <scott-work> got a meeting, be back in a bit
[15:57] <ailo> yeah
[17:13] <stochastic> scott-work, I just received a request from smartboyhw to take over ownership of the ubuntustudio-testers group in launchpad.  Currently I'm listed as the owner.  I'm curious if I should instead change the owner to ubuntustudio-devs
[17:15] <micahg> personally, I think the owner should be the project lead with the testing lead as an admin
[17:15] <ailo> Ah, yeah. That should work
[17:16] <stochastic> so is scott the project lead currently?
[17:17] <ailo> stochastic: Yep
[17:17] <stochastic> what reasons for this more specific ownership scheme do you suggest micahg?  If the dev team collectively owns the testing team then turnover in the project lead position will have less impact on the group itself.
[17:18] <stochastic> and less paperwork to alter
[17:18] <micahg> stochastic: project lead has final say on who runs the testing team (owner can add/modify/remove users), testing lead can add/modify/remove users, but not the owner)
[17:18] <ailo> Also, not all teams can have admins, or?
[17:18] <holstein> ailo: im not saying you cant or shouldnt add a slide
[17:18] <holstein> ailo: im just saying, right now, its easy for me to ask knome to update a little text
[17:19] <ailo> holstein: I do the updating for the most part
[17:19] <ailo> holstein: We have team for that, you know
[17:19] <holstein> ailo: sure.. go for it
[17:19] <holstein> ailo: but, if you are busy, and its says "new release 12.10 and its may 2013...
[17:19] <micahg> admin for testing lead only makes sense if the idea is to build a team and the lead has been told to find more people
[17:20] <stochastic> micahg, okay, but why not just set the developer team as the owner?
[17:20] <holstein> ailo: im most just thinking future proof... and easy admin-ing.. but like i said, i have no problems with a sile
[17:20] <holstein> slide*
[17:21] <micahg> stochastic: that would allow any member of the dev team to "in theory" hijack the team, also, owner decides who's a member/admin and who isn't, it doesn't seem to make sense for the dev team to "own" that role
[17:21] <ailo> holstein: We used to have a problem with getting the website updated, but since we have control over it ourselves now, that kind of things is not likely to happen anymore
[17:22] <micahg> team as owner makes sense when each member of the team is empowered to manage whatever is being owned
[17:22] <micahg> I don't believe that's the case here
[17:22] <stochastic> yes, true I'll make the changes you suggest.  thanks.
[17:22] <holstein> ailo: go for it! i just dont want to deal with making or replacing or removing an old slide
[17:23] <ailo> holstein: It's a matter of clicking a button to disable it, so it really isn't a big issue. I'll make one, and let you see the results later
[17:24] <stochastic> micahg, just one minor quibble with your logic now: scott is not a member of the testers team and yet we're arbitrarily setting him as the owner?
[17:24] <micahg> stochastic: owner isn't a member anymore in launchpad :)
[17:25] <micahg> stochastic: unless the team was created outside the scope of the project, I would think scott would have final say
[17:25]  * micahg doesn't know the background of the team
[17:26] <stochastic> okay book keeping is done, scott is owner, howard is an admin
[17:26] <stochastic> yes the team was created primarily to get more people involved in testing without forcing them to join the dev team (which can be a daunting and distracting team)
[17:27] <stochastic> essentially a taskforce from the dev team with outside involvement
[17:27] <micahg> outside the dev team, but in the scope of the project, right?
[17:27] <holstein> i can do https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations as well... i just cant really look at it til december
[17:29] <ailo> holstein: Ah. Well, I'm sure the whole thing will grow a bit during the cycle. But, I was hoping you might be interested in creating and looking for news a bit
[17:29] <ailo> holstein: And keeping up with users through certain social channels, or whatever
[17:30] <holstein> ailo: i am!
[17:30] <ailo> Just seemed like something that might suit you somehow
[17:30] <holstein> i have 2 little trips in november after the theater show im doing
[17:30] <holstein> then i 'll be much more free
[17:30] <holstein> especially in january.. things slow down for me
[17:31] <stochastic> micahg, yep
[17:32] <stochastic> micahg, also I just noticed that astraljava is the owner of Ubuntu Studio, by your sound logic this should be thought about being passed over to scott-work?
[17:32] <ailo> stochastic: micahg: I think what we have in mind now is letting Howard take the lead on getting regular users to help with testing. Howard being the contact person to the dev team
[17:32] <micahg> yes :)
[17:32] <stochastic> what comment was that a yes to?
[17:33] <stochastic> mine or ailo's?
[17:33] <micahg> stochastic: yours
[17:33] <micahg> well, I guess both
[17:33] <stochastic> ok
[17:33] <stochastic> ailo, yes I agree with that assesment
[17:34] <stochastic> as an administrator of the group howard should have all the power he requires to take care of that group
[17:34] <ailo> Ok, good. Then we got that one nailed down :)
[17:43] <stochastic> I've sent an e-mail to scott and janne about switching the Ubuntu Studio team owner position
[17:50] <ailo> holstein: I ended up just adding one line to the first slide http://ubuntustudio.org/
[17:51] <ailo> We should probably have a more user friendly release news posting with each release, I think
[17:51] <ailo> One with more pictures than words, if you know what I mean
[17:51] <holstein> i liked smartboys forum post
[17:51] <ailo> holstein: Did it have pics?
[17:52] <ailo> holstein: Looking at it
[17:53] <ailo> holstein: well, it's mostly a copy of the release notes. He just added his own begin and end
[17:54] <ailo> I don't mean we scrap release notes. Just that we have one less technical post, with much less content
[17:57] <ailo> I'll see about making one tomorrow..
[18:58] <astraljava> stochastic: Where am I the owner of?
[19:02] <astraljava> Are you guys seriously going to be adding support for wubi this cycle?
[19:03] <astraljava> stochastic: Also, I don't think I've received that email. Where did you send it to?
[19:03] <astraljava> Nevermind, just found it.
[19:11] <astraljava> scott-work: You seem to have two accounts on LP, which one should I use?
[19:18] <ailo> astraljava: wubi is a suggestion yes. What would talk against it?
[19:21] <astraljava> I can't understand why you would want to use the hardware resources through a layer of Windows.
[19:22] <astraljava> Surely that won't do good for latency?
[19:22] <astraljava> Hmmm... ok, I may have been getting some of that wrong.
[19:26] <astraljava> But it is still residing in a file on NTFS partition, so I have my doubts.
[19:34] <astraljava> All the technicalities on the 'net seem to be rather outdated. Oh well, maybe it has matured past the issues and limitations.
[19:43] <knome> it's not long ago xubuntu dropped wubi support because it only brought problems.
[19:43] <knome> astraljava, how did the choir practice go?
[19:48] <ailo> Well, we have it under consideration, so someone should find out the good sides and the bad sides, and based on that, see if and how to support it
[20:41] <len-dt> whats wubi?
[20:46] <knome> len-dt, software that install ubuntu inside windows
[20:47] <len-dt> :P  no windows here to test that on. OK
[20:47] <knome> don't tell me this hdmi cable is dead
[20:47] <knome> :(
[20:48] <knome> looks like it is
[20:48] <knome> dang
[20:53] <ailo> I actually installed Ubuntu using wubi on my moms computer
[20:53] <ailo> She isn't bitten by the *nix yet
[20:54] <ailo> Likes her IE
[20:54] <knome> the biggets problem with wubi is, imo, that once you want to go to a linux-only pc, you can't do that unless you reinstall
[20:55] <ailo> I see it as way to try Linux out
[20:55] <ailo> It's pretty easy to get rid of, for someone not that techincal
[20:55] <ailo> + no need to do any partitioning, etc
[20:56] <knome> that's true, it's easy to install, but in the end, it's not easy to get completely away from windows
[20:56] <knome> and that increases the possibility users will stick with windows
[20:58] <knome> "if you want to use linux only, you will still need windows since you installed with wubi" doesn't sound too good to my ears
[20:58] <knome> that isn't a very good product
[20:59] <Len-nb> It may be a "everyone else is using this why don't we have it too?" thing.
[20:59] <ailo> I don't see any political issues with it. It's a techincal possibility. If it works ok, I think it's worth supporting, if it's not too much of a hazzle
[21:00] <ailo> I'd leave it up to the user to decide in which way to install
[21:00] <Len-nb> Are their people with windows for testing this?
[21:00] <knome> "i want more space for my linux files, how do i delete windows?"
[21:00] <knome> "you can't, since you installed with wubi"
[21:00] <ailo> I have access at least, to a couple of machines
[21:01] <knome> there's a less political side of it
[21:01] <ailo> knome: It's still up to the user. And it's up to us to explain what happens if you do this or that
[21:02] <knome> ailo, sure, but the thing is, users usually won't ask.
[21:02] <knome> ailo, those are just a few reasons why i dislike wubi
[21:02] <knome> afaik, there has been some wubi-specific bugs too
[21:03] <ailo> I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to install with wubi. But, again, if someone wants it, and it's possible to implement, I don't see any problem with that.
[21:03] <knome> yeah, aiui, it's just one checkbox to enable it
[21:04] <knome> ailo, you want to contact evan dandrea (ev) about it
[21:05] <ailo> knome: Ok, thanks
[21:05] <knome> np
[21:22] <scott-work> doh, just got out of an afternoon of fixing problems and meetings
[21:23] <scott-work> i'll read the backscroll at home
[21:23] <scott-work> astraljava: i didn't know that i had two accounts, i was only aware of a single account
[21:23] <scott-work> i am going home now though
[21:24] <stochastic> astraljava, it's this particular group I was talking about https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio
[21:31] <holstein> ailo: i was just pointing that out for the text
[21:31] <holstein> i agree about more pics than text
[21:38] <ailo> holstein: It's the same text here. We need it of course, but I'll see about adding a news post with less content tomorrow. It might be a nice thing to have for every release
[21:38] <ailo> holstein: https://ubuntustudio.org/2012/10/ubuntu-studio-12-10-quantal-quentzal-release-notes/
[21:38] <ailo> bb tomorrow