[01:26] <viewer|39947> hello, could some one please tell me,  where or how to find the (Package Installer) in Kubuntu 16.10
[01:28] <valorie> it's called muon
[01:28] <valorie> the gui frontend to apt on the commandline
[01:28] <valorie> viewer|39947: if you type alt+space and type muon, you can select it
[01:29] <valorie> or use your K menu
[01:30] <viewer|39947> it is not working,   I type  muon  in  run command  and  nothing apears
[01:31] <valorie> oh, perhaps you don't have it installed
[01:32] <valorie> you can use discover, I guess -- it is installed by default
[01:32] <valorie> so type discover instead
[01:32]  * valorie goes off to get some dinner
[01:33] <viewer|39947> maybe,  I'm new at this, I just installed kubuntu, and I have no idea, what I am doing, I a treully ppreciate your help
[01:34] <viewer|39947> I  had try to install,  (Opera)  thru discover,  but  it doesn't show it,
[01:36] <valorie> hmmm
[01:36] <valorie> !info opera
[01:37] <viewer|39947> I downloaded  opera,  and I"m trying to install it,
[01:37] <valorie> oh, from an outside source?
[01:37] <valorie> 1. not a good idea
[01:37] <viewer|39947> from  Operas wedsite
[01:37] <valorie> 2. I don't know how to do that
[01:37] <valorie> I have no clue
[01:38] <valorie> it's not a good idea to install anything outside of the archive
[01:39] <valorie> unless you know what you are doing
[01:39] <viewer|39947> ok,   tank you
[01:39] <viewer|39947> and nope,  I have no clue about kubuntu
[01:42] <viewer|39947> well,  thank you all for  your  help
[01:42] <viewer|39947> have a nice  night
[07:15] <hateball> I wonder when Chromium will get updated.... even Debian has newer packages
[07:15] <hateball> Even CentOS xD
[12:17] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:26] <yossarianuk> I've noticed the adobe-flash plugin (for firefox) was bumped from 11.2.x -> 24 today - is anyone else getting constant segfaults from it ?
[14:29] <hateball> hmmm, I have 23alpha on my 16.04 install and that seemed to work at least. as well as flash works
[14:29] <hateball> have not tested 24 yet
[14:31] <BluesKaj> the new flashj p[lugin installed , but it's not working very well here
[14:32] <yossarianuk> for me I use it to listen to bbc radio and it randomly crashes frequently, the old version was stable (as can be)
[14:32] <yossarianuk> plugin-containe[8061]: segfault at<PHONE_NUMBER>c4 ip 00007f526c1ff412 sp 00007ffe9f0a09d8 error 6 in libflashplayer.so[7f526bb8e000+107a000]
[14:32] <mgolden_> Taking forever to download too
[14:32] <BluesKaj> yossarianuk, no segfaulkts, but a lot of stuttering
[14:32] <mgolden_> Problem is, you can't not run the latest flash no matter what is wrong with it
[14:34] <yossarianuk> v24 is the latest version
[14:43] <yossarianuk> is the mms.cfg still used for flash plugin ?
[14:46] <gvandeweyer> Hi, I'm using kubuntu 16.10 on a dell laptop with docking station. My monitor setup is <ext1><ext2><laptop>, but every time I connect to the dock, I have to move the laptop from the left (default) to the right end of the monitor list
[14:47] <gvandeweyer> also, monitors are not deactivated on docking disconnect. Am I missing something to save the display configuration & enable automatic screen updates on (dis)connect ?
[14:48] <gvandeweyer> a workaround would be to have the mouse 'wrap around', if I move out of the right edge of the rightmost monitor, i'll end up on the left side of the left-most monitor. is this possible somehow?
[14:56] <yossarianuk> gvandeweyer: likely the issue is fixed in Plasma 5.8.x
[14:57] <yossarianuk> my only issue with kubuntu is not having latest plasma... it means running a desktop with known bugs in most of which will never be fixed in 16.10 lifetime (apart from when the backports PPA releases plasma5.8)
[15:00] <gvandeweyer> yossarianuk: so currently I can't upgrade to plasma 5.8 ?
[15:05] <yossarianuk> gvandeweyer: nope
[15:05] <gvandeweyer> bummer...
[15:05] <yossarianuk> I have it on my neon install and it is better...
[15:05] <yossarianuk> and a few serious issues fixed
[15:09] <gvandeweyer> ok. there seem to be some backport ppa's already: http://sourcedigit.com/21009-install-kde-plasma-5-8-on-ubuntu-16-04-and-linux-mint/
[15:09] <gvandeweyer> maybe I'll try them later
[15:12] <yossarianuk> gvandeweyer: the ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports repo only has plasma 5.6.5 for 16.04  (nothing for 16.10 yet)
[15:13] <gvandeweyer> ah, didn't notice that
[15:13] <yossarianuk> but it will come out soon I imagine
[15:14] <yossarianuk> I was told after packages were built for 17.04
[15:14] <genii> Stuff doesn't usually get backported to interim releases with short support cycles, usually just to LTS
[15:15] <acheronuk> http://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-and-linux-mint-doing-plasma-5-8-testing/
[15:18] <acheronuk> so plasma 5.8 updates for 16.04 and 16.10 have been done, and can be tested if you are prepared to be a guinea pig
[15:20] <gvandeweyer> acheronuk: how stable are these in this stage?
[15:20] <gvandeweyer> no problem in testing if they are in final beta stage
[15:23] <acheronuk> well, obviously the point in testing is that we want people to help find potential issues that may exist
[15:24] <acheronuk> that does not mean that they will, but there are no guarantees
[15:24] <gvandeweyer> it's past alpha then?
[15:25] <gvandeweyer> fine, I'll give it a shot later this week!
[15:25] <acheronuk> I've been using our plasma 5.8 packages from staging in 17.04 for quite a while now, and seems stable on my systems
[15:25] <acheronuk> but as always, you may have an issue with your graphics/hardware, as you can't test on everything
[15:26] <gvandeweyer> ofcourse, and I'm happy to help there.
[15:26] <gvandeweyer> I'm typically on beta-releases for kernels as well, as I'm still hoping my fingerprint/cardreaders will get supported
[15:26] <gvandeweyer> :-)
[15:48] <yossarianuk> yey - looks like the 375 nvidia driver will be useable -> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-375.26-Released
[15:51] <yossarianuk> just need the ppa to be updated now.
[18:08] <user|30484> Schönen guten Abend alle anwesenden...
[18:09] <user|30484> ist zufällig jemand vom Kubuntu on ?
[18:12] <user|30484> naja, wie dem auch sei, habe da etwas neues für alle -> Kubuntu ist nicht SICHER im Internet. hatte soeben einen Bios-Write etc... ganz toll sowas, denn man vermittelt den Verbrauchern, dass Kubuntu Sicher sei
[18:29] <Smurphy> pfff ...
[19:43] <elichai2> hey
[19:43] <elichai2> I want to install KDE Plasma 5.8 on my ubuntu
[19:43] <elichai2> I tried installing via kubuntu-backport ppa but it installed KDE 5.2.X
[19:48] <acheronuk> elichai2: the backports ppa has plasma 5.6.5 for Xenial. 5.2.X will be the KDE applications version for whatever you are looking at, which is a different numbering scheme to plasma
[19:48] <acheronuk> plasma 5.8.4 is in testing
[19:49] <elichai2> acheronuk, ohh, I checked the version by running `knosole --version` and it told me the KDE version (I think 5.23)
[19:50] <acheronuk> elichai2: 'plasmashell -v' tell you the plasma desktop version
[19:50] <elichai2> if i'll upgrade my system to Yakkety will it change anything? (I currently have Xenial)
[19:50] <elichai2> (I mean, will I get a better version)
[19:50] <acheronuk> Yakkety has plasma 5.7.5. better, but still not the new and shiny plasma 5.8
[19:51] <acheronuk> plasma 5.8 has to be provided in backports when it is ready
[19:51] <elichai2> ohh, so maybe i'll test KDE on another distro (on VM)
[19:51] <acheronuk> as it was released to late to go into Yakkey by default
[19:52] <elichai2> I just got tired of my Unity and I want something new and shinny and I liked how the Plasma looks in screenshots
[19:52] <steve-_-1> is there a release date for discover 5.8?
[19:52] <acheronuk> well, we have 5.8 in our backeports-landing ppa for testers
[19:53] <acheronuk> see: http://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-and-linux-mint-doing-plasma-5-8-testing/
[19:53] <steve-_-1> acheronuk: so I guess the question is when 5.8 will hit stable
[19:53] <acheronuk> steve-_-1: when we are confident it has been tested enough
[19:54] <steve-_-1> so no release date atm
[19:54] <steve-_-1> hm ok
[19:54] <acheronuk> giving ETAs too often comes back to bite you on the backside
[19:54] <steve-_-1> so if I rephrase and ask weeks or months?
[19:55] <steve-_-1> acheronuk: yes totally understand that
[19:55] <elichai2> steve-_-1, good QA will answer years.
[19:55] <steve-_-1> just curious if it's close or far away. if it's far away I will try to use that testing thing
[19:55] <steve-_-1> really?
[19:55] <steve-_-1> how is that?
[19:55] <acheronuk> it would be nice to have it ready for Xmas and give everyone a nice shiny plasma present!
[19:55] <elichai2> so they won't promise anyone anything
[19:55] <elichai2> lol
[19:56] <steve-_-1> oh well. so if I add that ppa will that change general version to some testing branch or is this for discover only?
[19:56] <acheronuk> but as with these things, you think they are ready, and testers turn up a load of bugs.
[19:56] <acheronuk> discover or plasma?
[19:57] <steve-_-1> I am only interesting in getting discover 5.8 since it fixes a bug I am seeing w current stable
[19:58] <acheronuk> discover is problematic on any branch, as it is a very much a WIP at the moment, and ubuntu's appream data it uses to find package info does not seem to be the greatest
[19:59] <acheronuk> hence even the latest version fails to find certain stuff, like VLC and some other apps
[19:59] <steve-_-1> so what is the best way to manage installed software / updates in kde?
[19:59] <steve-_-1> or kubuntu
[19:59] <steve-_-1> for dummies like myself looking for a UI solution
[20:00] <acheronuk> well, personally I use synaptic
[20:00] <acheronuk> it's gtk, and a bit old and creaky, but it just works!
[20:00] <steve-_-1> hm, I find this all very confusing. so discover is the new default from what I understand?
[20:00] <steve-_-1> muon is gone
[20:01] <acheronuk> muon is not gone.
[20:01] <acheronuk> 'sudo apt-get install muon'
[20:02] <steve-_-1> so there's three solutions or more I yet have to find one that works reliably. muon had the last update check … milliseconds ago bug
[20:02] <steve-_-1> discover does not display file size of files to be downloaded
[20:02] <steve-_-1> wouldn't it be good to concentrate efforts and have one working solution?
[20:02] <steve-_-1> but maybe that's not how linux works
[20:03] <steve-_-1> uedLWP
[20:03] <steve-_-1> arg wrong window
[20:04] <steve-_-1> ok, let'S just wait for 5.8 and hope that that version works a bit more reliably
[20:14] <[Relic]> don't forget when you check with discover and install anything the whole thing just doesn't respond when it is updating the package tables and shows no progress
[20:21] <_Wens_> hi! will be update qt to 5.6.2 version in yakkety?
[22:13] <N0Lif3> I have the Bluetooth background service disabled, but from time to time I keep seeing the bluetooth symbol showing that it's being powered on my taskbar
[22:17] <valorie> if you have the applet installed, perhaps it's starting it up automatically?
[22:19] <valorie> I have one, and if I hover over it, it says no connected devices
[22:21] <N0Lif3> when I click it, it will have the checkbox full meaning it's "Powered"
[22:21] <N0Lif3> I'm on a laptop, so I want to keep it off to conserve battery life
[22:25] <valorie> when I click the applet, it's got a little box that I can click to turn it off
[22:25] <valorie> to the right are the settings
[22:29] <valorie> when I turn it off in the settings, the applet icon disappears to the "hidden icons" area
[22:29] <valorie> the little pyramid shape
[22:31] <N0Lif3> yea, that's where it is now
[22:31] <N0Lif3> do you pronounce Kubuntu "KOO BOON TOO" or "Kay ooo boon too?"
[22:32] <valorie> I do the first
[22:32] <valorie> but some do the second
[22:32] <valorie> it's all good
[22:33] <valorie> actually: koo bun too
[22:33] <valorie> I rarely yell it
[22:33] <valorie> lol
[22:40] <Dragnslcr> I do the second


[11:51] <SiDi> hi
[13:03] <kwwii> thorwil: hi, get my email?
[13:04] <thorwil> kwwii: hi! yes, and now you can get mine ;)
[13:04] <kwwii> ;)
[13:26] <kwwii> savvas: ping? I was wondering what your opinion was on adding a larger sized pic to the usplash
[13:37] <kwwii> thorwil: great comments, thanks!
[13:37] <kwwii> thorwil: I have now put the audience and message slides at front
[13:38] <thorwil> kwwii: np. before the competition?
[13:43] <kwwii> thorwil: well, I have added a part to the message slide introducing the whole thing
[19:46] <thorwil> kwwii: did you consider to point at the specific goals for jaunty as possible themes for the background?
[19:48] <kwwii> thorwil: not sure what you mean by goals for jaunty
[19:49] <thorwil> kwwii: afair the main points were fast boot and integration with online services
[19:50] <kwwii> thorwil: that might not be a bad idea
[19:51] <kwwii> as well as adding that there will be the notification system stuff constantly putting bubbles on your desktop
[20:18] <kwwii> for better or worse, it is away
[20:39] <savvas> kwwii: greater than 800x600? if it's not going to affect boot speed, I would do it :) I think opensuse uses higher resolutions
[20:40] <savvas> It would be nice to see a percentage of the used resolutions in ubuntu
[20:40] <kwwii> savvas: we currently only include a 1365x768 pre-scaled ic
[20:40] <kwwii> pic
[20:40] <kwwii> savvas: I thought about adding a 1600x1200 and a 1440x900 scaled down to 1200x900
[20:40] <savvas> yes!! :p
[20:40] <kwwii> btw, I assume that the pre-scaled pics just get scaled up when shown on a wider monitor
[20:41] <kwwii> ?
[20:41] <kwwii> ie, it is not just 16:9
[20:41] <kwwii> but also 16:10, etc
[20:41] <_MMA_> kwwii: You talkin' Usplash?
[20:41] <savvas> oh, I'm not an expert, but did a lot of people ask for these resolutions?
[20:41] <kwwii> _MMA_: yepp
[20:41] <kwwii> savvas: nope, people just complain that it gets stretched
[20:42] <_MMA_> kwwii: It seems they dont scale up. Its more like the monitor just used 800x600 by default. So stretches yes but uses a lower res.
[20:43] <savvas> kwwii: since you're working on usplash, could you poke a developer for bug #203299 ?
[20:43] <savvas> it keeps crashing usplash randomly
[20:46] <kwwii> savvas: our goal is to use plymouth by +1, I haven't gotten much traction with the changes I wanted for jaunty
[20:46]  * savvas looks
[20:46] <savvas> plymouth is another software for splash screen?
[20:47] <_MMA_> yep
[20:50] <kwwii> yes
[20:50] <kwwii> RH stuff
[20:50] <kwwii> uses KMS
[20:51] <MadsRH> kwwii: Have you (and SlowMac) started the Plymouth work? It sounds great!
[20:53] <savvas> looks sexy in fedora: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Image:Tours_Fedora10_012_Plymouth_Boot.png :P
[21:10] <kwwii> MadsRH: there is some work on getting a branch building for jaunty
[22:19] <Cimi> kwwii, you should update the engine, maybe before march
[23:51] <kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I was trying to find someone to push that off on
[23:52] <Cimi> kwwii, wait for 2 weeks
[23:52]  * kwwii is still working on the usplash
[23:52] <kwwii> ok, waiting is easy at this point :p
[23:52] <kwwii> no crack though, eh?
[23:53] <Cimi> i need to add support for progressbars inside the entry
[23:53] <Cimi> like safari
[23:53] <Cimi> http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2986/schermatamb8.png
[23:53] <kwwii> erm, ok...not sure I get it though
[23:53] <Cimi> that looks sweet
[23:53]  * Cimi loves blue
[23:54] <kwwii> hehe, but has nothing to do with what you just said about "progressbars inside the entry", or?
[23:54] <Cimi> no :P
[23:55] <Cimi> that was from lucazade
[23:55] <kwwii> it is nice though


[01:17] <gosukiwi> Hello! I'm having a problem, everytime I turn on my PC i need to run a command to fix my mouse sensitivity (xinput --set-prop "Razer DeathAdder" "Device Accel Constant Deceleration" 5) Is it possible to run it automatically every time I turn on my pc?
[03:43] <kiraslaugh> Hello?
[08:59] <micheg> hi
[09:00] <micheg> how so many gtk3 apps?
[09:03] <Unit193> Did you happen to see the work items for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lubuntu-q-work-items ?
[12:00] <Osmodivs> Hello world. How can I get an invitation from OpenBox?  I need one in order to -vía chat- suggest improvements to their Window Manager.
[12:01] <bioterror> Osmodivs, tsk tsk: Openbox has an IRC channel on oftc stealthily called #openbox
[12:02] <bioterror> and that's for support ;)
[12:03] <bioterror> I think
[12:03] <bioterror> but worth of checking out
[12:04] <Osmodivs> IF only I knew to code. THEN I would fix it.
[12:07] <jokerdino> hi. someone wants to weigh in on this bug? bug #1035607
[12:08] <bioterror> default session to rule them all! ;D
[12:09] <jokerdino> hehe
[12:09] <bioterror> technically that's artwork related problem?
[12:09] <jokerdino> i think it looks somewhat ugly not to have any specific badge and to just use a fallback white circle.
[12:09] <jokerdino> bioterror: i am not sure. hence, asking for some guidance here.
[12:45] <bioterror> jokerdino, hmmm
[12:45] <bioterror> jokerdino, you could add an icon there yourself?-)
[12:45] <jokerdino> i could do it for my computer alone but others won't benefit from it.
[12:45] <jokerdino> best if it is done on the distribution level
[12:46] <bioterror> yeah, ofcourse
[12:46] <bioterror> but you could take for example the Lubuntu logo and put it there?-)
[12:46] <jokerdino> yeah
[12:47] <jokerdino> but then again, i am not the artwork guy
[12:54] <Luko> hi
[12:54] <Luko> is posible to use in lubuntu ATi propiertary driver?
[12:55] <bioterror> yes
[13:38] <kiraslaugh> could anyone recommend good replacements for bmpanel and pypanel
[13:38] <kiraslaugh> running openbox on lubuntu
[14:06] <chestwood> hi
[14:06] <bioterror> evening
[14:06] <chestwood> is this the place where i can get help whit lubuntu?
[14:06] <bioterror> it depends
[14:07] <bioterror> if your problem is too complicated to us :D
[14:07] <chestwood> on what
[14:07] <bioterror> !ask | chestwood
[14:08] <chestwood> ok i got this old passifly cooled computer wich i tried to set up lubuntu whit the altenative cd and after the instalation the screen didnt get a signal
[14:09] <chestwood> it had windows 2000 on it before wich worked fine
[14:09] <chestwood> well as fine as windows 2000 can work at least
[14:09] <bioterror> boot into text mode and generate xorg.conf
[14:09] <bioterror> I touched yesterday Windows 2000
[14:09] <bioterror> it was horrible
[14:10] <bioterror> it was okay 10 years ago
[14:10] <chestwood> how do i boot into text mode?
[14:10] <bioterror> when you boot your computer, press left shift key after BIOS
[14:10] <bioterror> you end up to grub
[14:10] <chestwood> ok ill try
[14:10] <bioterror> edit the first grub like and add to the kernel line after "ro quiet" or what it wasthis "text" without ""
[14:11] <bioterror> grub line, even
[14:16] <bioterror> when you end up to the tty1, Xorg -configure
[14:16] <bioterror> then: sudo mv xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[14:18] <chestwood> i dont get into grub secreen just says no signal after the grub text shows up
[14:19] <bioterror> hard to help then
[14:19] <bioterror> now I'm off to grilling n chilling! ;D
[14:19] <chestwood> doe you know what could be the problem?
[14:35] <chestwood> didnt work
[14:35] <chestwood> do i have to do somethin spezial on instalation?
[14:36] <chestwood> i think it just doesnt get my screen its connected via vga or is the graphix card too weak'
[14:37] <chestwood> no ideas?
[14:39] <chestwood> please help
[15:02] <holstein> chestwood: whats going on?
[15:03] <holstein> chestwood: it wont be an issue of "too weak".. it will be an issue of support
[15:07] <kiraslaugh> could anyone recommend good replacements for bmpanel and pypanel running openbox on lubuntu
[15:08] <chestwood> well te isue is that my screen says no signal after the loadscreen
[15:08] <holstein> kiraslaugh: the panel that LXDE comes with.. or tint2
[15:09] <holstein> i would fire up a package manager, and search "panel" and just start trying them.. theres usually good reason why apps get taken out of the repos
[15:09] <holstein> you are always welcome to research applications, and see where they are in their development, and fork them, and support them... its a good idea to do that upstream in debian so they "trickle down"
[15:10] <kiraslaugh> holstein: hey i was trying tint2, it works, i need another panel though to replace pypanel
[15:10] <holstein> chestwood: i usually troubleshoot... i try other hardware, other monitors.. i use live CD's such as puppy or knoppix.. i grab an xorg.conf from a live environement thats working, and put it in my system much like bioterror was explaining
[15:10] <chestwood> its a celeron onboard graphix card or something idk exactly i got this computer used
[15:11] <holstein> chestwood: i would boot the live CD in safe graphics mode til i get to the desktop
[15:11] <chestwood> i got the alternative cd
[15:11] <chestwood> but i could burn a live one
[15:12] <holstein> chestwood: live CD's are just what i use.. i want to see the deskop live.. i want to know that i can support linux on the device, and how much trouble its going to be
[15:12] <chestwood> ok ill burn one
[15:13] <holstein> chestwood: can you put an xorg.conf in place on your system right now? sure.. how do you do that? ...depends on the hardware
[15:13] <holstein> forcing the vesa driver is what i would be trying to do
[15:13] <chestwood> what driver?
[15:13] <holstein> chestwood: safre graphics mode..vesa driver.. it should always "just work"
[15:14] <chestwood> ok ill burn a live cd and try it
[15:14] <holstein> chestwood: in the wizard on the puppy live CD, you can choose a lot of different options til the desktop "works"
[15:14] <holstein> i sometimes do that to learn what needs to be done, or to steal the xorg.conf from there
[15:14] <chestwood> i got lubuntu
[15:15] <chestwood> and im pretty noobish to linux
[15:15] <holstein> chestwood: correct.. i use the pupply live CD, or knoppix as a method to learn what i need to do to support whatever i choose to run
[15:15] <holstein> i want to learn about the hardware... what driver i can use with linux.. what resolution works... i want to see a desktop, then i can go from there
[15:16] <chestwood> so i should get pupy'
[15:16] <holstein> chestwood: if you are new, you might consider trying some different live CD's and see what "just works"
[15:16] <holstein> could be that an ubuntu 10.04 version would just work
[15:16] <holstein> chestwood: you should do what you feel comfortable doing
[15:17] <chestwood> what different live cd would you recoment?
[15:17] <holstein> chestwood: i have literally a hundred or so, so i just use them for troubleshooting
[15:17] <chestwood> i actually tried ubuntu 10 before
[15:18] <holstein> chestwood: i typically try the current LTS, the upcoming beta, and something around the time the hardware was made.. also puppy or knoppix or other diagnostic CD's
[15:18] <holstein> i test the memory, and the hard drive... i see what the hardware is.. i search wikis...
[15:19] <holstein> operating systems typically come preloaded from the manufactuer for a reason.. its not always easy
[15:19] <chestwood> how can you look what the hardware is?
[15:20] <holstein> chestwood: i like to get a live CD running on the desktop and run commands that tell me exactly what is what... lspci, lsusb.. whatever i need
[15:20] <holstein> chestwood: if i cant get to a desktop, i get to a command prompt.. or a turn the unit over and search the manufacturers site, which is not ideal
[15:21] <holstein> they can change versions of hardware randomly during production which can make supporting hardware challening for any OS
[15:22] <holstein> first linux OS i ran for an extended period of time was mepis, and its because it mostly "just worked" ...if you are new, i say, do what is comfortable, and just try and get your feet wet
[15:23] <chestwood> would it change something if i would reinstall windows 2000 wisch works and install it from there
[15:23] <holstein> chestwood: windows is a different OS.. it has nothing to do with what you are doing
[15:23] <chestwood> i mean the drivers worked on there waybe it would work
[15:24] <holstein> you could have very similar issues installing windwos 7
[15:24] <holstein> chestwood: those drivers are for windows, and have nothing to do with linux or lubuntu or ubuntu
[15:24] <chestwood> could it cange something if i connect the computer to the internet?
[15:24] <holstein> chestwood: you can literally try it, and it wont hurt anything, but the issue is driver support for your graphics card
[15:25] <holstein> you will put a custom xorg.conf in place forcing the vesa driver, and you will get a desktop
[15:25] <holstein> but, you can get there however you like.. i would suggest downloading the xubuntu live CD.. i would hit shift when booting.. at the bottom you will see F6 as an option... you select "nomodeset" .. try and boot to the live environment
[15:26] <chestwood> so i just burn the live cd and run save graphix mode and it works?
[15:26] <holstein> chestwood: in theory...
[15:27] <chestwood> i got a xubuntu live cd on my desk
[15:27] <chestwood> i tryed many os but every one failed after the loadscreen
[15:27] <chestwood> but i can try safe graphix
[15:28] <holstein> chestwood: boot that... start tapping shift... you'll see a menu.. hit F6, select "nomodeset" proceed to "try it live"
[15:29] <chestwood> ok ill try tat if what im dping now doesnt work
[15:29] <chestwood> damn my english sucks sorry about that
[15:29] <holstein> xorg -configure *should* work as well.. though it has failed me a few times
[15:30] <holstein> totally my fault for not understanding it better though
[15:30] <holstein> this is assuming what bioterror suggested doesnt work for you
[15:30] <chestwood> well if i get to grub it goes black asusual
[15:31] <holstein> chestwood: theres a "recovery" kernel.. right under the normal one
[15:32] <holstein> you boot, tapping shift, you'll see your current grub... you choose the 2nd one, which should be "recovery" something
[15:32] <holstein> you'll see options for recovery... root shells... handy stuff
[15:33] <chestwood> well im installing it pn nomodeset atm
[15:35] <chestwood> another question if i get it working can i remote controll it over network somwhow?
[15:35] <holstein> chestwood: many ways
[15:35] <chestwood> the easyest?¨
[15:36] <holstein> depends... what are you used to using?
[15:36] <holstein> its never (in my opinion) whats easiest, its more about whats the most like what you are already used to
[15:36] <chestwood> im just getting in to that stuff
[15:37] <holstein> also depends on what the goal is.. i typically ssh into a command promt.. this gives me all the control i want of the remote machine
[15:37] <holstein> i can forward x sessions if i choose
[15:37] <chestwood> i want to overwatch some programms on it
[15:37] <holstein> there are commercial products that work great such as teamviewer, which is free of charge, and works great and is easy to install and configure through firewalls
[15:39] <chestwood> well the goal is to have it sit beside the router whitout monitor and keyboard and i wanna cotroll it form my pc (windows 7)
[15:39] <holstein> sure... i can think of several ways to do that... 2 of which i mentioned above... any VNC connection
[15:49] <chestwood> what does braille terminal mean/do?
[15:49] <holstein> chestwood: if you are in need of braille assistance, that would be key
[15:50] <chestwood> dont get it what does braille suppot do?
[15:51] <holstein> chestwood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display
[15:51] <holstein> it literally allows a person who needs assitance to "feel" text
[15:51] <chestwood> oh
[15:53] <chestwood> where can u get those drivers?
[15:53] <chestwood> veso or something?
[15:54] <holstein> chestwood: drivers for the braille displays?
[15:54] <holstein> they are included in the kernel.. most drivers are
[15:55] <chestwood> no those viso or whatever drivers
[15:55] <holstein> whatever is allowed to be included, and is current will "just work" with linux
[15:55] <holstein> chestwood: they are in the kernel
[15:55] <holstein> chestwood: you have only to specify to teh system to utilize them
[15:57] <chestwood> i finally got into the grub menu
[15:57] <chestwood> what to do now?
[15:58] <holstein> chestwood: that is the grub list for a version of linux you have installed?
[15:58] <chestwood> there are 4 options
[15:59] <chestwood> the first one is ubuntu, whit linux 3.2.0-23-generic
[16:00] <chestwood> what should i do now?
[16:02] <holstein> chestwood: you should see as the 2nd optin "recovery"
[16:02] <chestwood> yea
[16:03] <chestwood> take that one?
[16:03] <holstein> chestwood: in there are lots of options for recovery.. i usually try whichh ever i need.. or many of them.. should be one for graphics.. one for root terminal
[16:03] <holstein> chestwood: take what you like.. there will not be a "fix this machine" button.. though i wish we could make that button.. it depends on your hardware and how you would like to try and get graphics support
[16:05] <holstein> i would likely try the graphics reconfigure option and see.. then i would go into the root terminal and do what needs to be done... the option that bioterror suggested for example, or creating a custom xorg.conf.. or copying over one that i know would work from a live CD i have used that worked
[16:06] <chestwood> there was no live cd that worked jet and i tried a few
[16:08] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/172319/how-can-i-start-ubuntu-12-04-in-safe-mode
[16:08] <chestwood> ill try dsl maybe that will work
[16:08] <holstein> sure.. no one here who has had your issue mentioned DSL, but try it.. and see
[16:09] <holstein> good luck chestwood .. gtg
[16:10] <chestwood> thx bb
[16:10] <luko> hi
[16:13] <bioterror> DSL is no longer maintained
[16:14] <bioterror> if I recall correctly
[16:14] <bioterror> oh, there's a RC
[16:15] <bioterror> latest stable is 3 years old :D
[17:53] <chestwood> i think its the chipset driver
[17:53] <chestwood> somebody knows how to install that http://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/AGP_INTEL.html
[17:55] <bioterror> has nothing to do with the thing that you cant see even grub
[17:56] <chestwood> i managed to get into the grub menue before
[17:56] <chestwood> and loadscreens work fine too but then no signal
[17:57] <chestwood> i got one of those ftp://ftp.aplica.at/Brochures/DigitalLogic/MPC30_31.pdf
[17:58] <chestwood> not even pupy linux works
[17:58] <bioterror> yeah, now you can do some math
[17:58] <chestwood> ?
[17:59] <bioterror> if you're employed guy and you make about 10 euros an hour, how much you give value for your free time to play around with obsolete hardware from the ~year 2000
[18:00] <chestwood> why not
[18:00] <bioterror> I dont want to sound like a prick or something like that, but people should see sometimes the point where to lift hands up and say "I'm going to recycle this piece of junk"
[18:01] <chestwood> yea propably im just going to put windows 2000 on there and make this 24/7
[18:02] <bioterror> why you want to run W2k?
[18:04] <chestwood> i wanted to make it a torrent server so i dont have to runn my power hungry computer all day and cause its quiet passifly cooled
[18:05] <bioterror> what the heck
[18:05] <bioterror> why dont you buy raspberry pi then?
[18:05] <bioterror> for example, or something else
[18:06] <chestwood> idk
[18:06] <chestwood> but anyway ill look what i can do
[18:07] <chestwood> ant if it doesnt work ill throw it away
[18:08] <bioterror> 466MHz Celeron CPU has 25.7W TDP
[18:08] <chestwood> 750mhz
[18:09] <bioterror> ist that which celeron?
[18:09] <bioterror> it's 23.6W
[18:10] <chestwood> anyway thanks cya
[20:44] <gld1982ltd> Hi all. I have created a team on Launchpad for LXMenuEditor. The team currently is all set up with a project page and a ppa. I packaged this program (lxmed or LXMenuEditor) with some help. However, it didn't upload properly to my ppa. So, I created this team. The trunk from upstream is due to be imported soon. Would anyone here like to join this team and help provide this great lxde menu editor to the community?
[21:17] <dbtmro2> Hi. Anyone know a ppa for the latest LXDE?
[21:20] <gld1982ltd> are you using lubuntu?


[06:06] <Lrush> Dear all, I find fedora 17 isntall  i3-3240 CPU  platform  Huaping screen!  have test latest kernel 3.6.2-2  ,but didn't work ? who can help me ?
[06:06] <Lrush> Dear all, I find linux isntall  i3-3240 CPU  platform  Huaping screen!  have test latest kernel 3.6.2-2  ,but didn't work ? who can help me ?
[09:50] <apw> caribou, do you guys still keep copies of the .ddebs offline ?
[09:50] <caribou> apw: I have some stashed somewhere, but not all of them
[09:51] <caribou> apw: what do you need ?
[09:51] <apw> caribou, damn i had rumours you were keeping them all in an automated fashion
[09:51] <apw> caribou, one of the precise ones has gone missing and was wondering if you had them
[09:51] <caribou> apw: I did, but when they changed how ddebs were kept, my script went haywire and deleted some (mostly Natty's)
[09:52] <apw> ahh would you  have 3.2.0-32-* by any chance ?
[09:52] <caribou> apw: lemme check...
[09:53] <henrix> apw: what do you mean by "gone missing"?  an accident?  or they failed to build?
[09:54] <apw> henrix, actually "not there now and i would expect them to be"
[09:54] <henrix> apw: interesting. any idea how that could happen?
[09:54] <caribou> apw: I have 3.2.0-32.51
[09:55] <apw> caribou, can they all be somewhere i can pass them to pitti ?
[09:55] <caribou> apw: is .51 the only one you need ?
[09:55] <caribou> apw: I have the -generic, -generic-pae & virtual ones
[09:55] <caribou> i386 & amd64
[09:56] <apw> caribou, for now yes just .51 and those are better than none at all
[09:58] <caribou> apw: what are these ?
[09:58] <caribou> apw: http://ddebs.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/kernel-image-3.2.0-32-generic-di_3.2.0-32.51_amd64.udeb
[09:58] <caribou> apw: nevermind, they're udebs
[09:58] <apw> yeah ... that :)
[10:20] <brendand> henrix, hi
[10:20] <henrix> brendand: hey
[10:20] <brendand> henrix, i see the precise kernel is just verified. are we still expected to do certification testing by tomorrow?
[10:21] <henrix> brendand: we had 2 kernels (oneiric and precise) blocked by a bug verification, and i just got precise freed today
[10:22] <henrix> brendand: it would be nice to have the certification during this week, i believe.
[10:22] <brendand> henrix, ok - it's possible
[10:23] <henrix> brendand: that would be great
[10:23] <henrix> brendand: sorry for the delay
[12:01] <apw> henrix, where are we with linux-lts-quantal, how far from promoting that to -updates are we?
[12:01] <henrix> apw: it should be in -updates late this week
[12:02] <apw> henrix, and does another cycle start monday?
[12:02] <henrix> apw: or, worst case, on monday
[12:02] <henrix> apw: yep
[12:02] <henrix> apw: i mean, another cycle starts on monday
[12:02] <apw> yep, cool
[12:02] <apw> henrix, we have a tiny patch to enable signed kernel generation on that one which we are waiting on, just wondering when we might see it in -proposed
[12:03] <apw> henrix, if you could poke me when the current one promotes that would be great
[12:03] <henrix> apw: sure, will do
[12:03] <apw> as i might sneak an upload (for -proposed only) in immediatly; which would just be the same with that patch
[12:04] <apw> it would not need testing or promoting to -updates or any of that jazz, and would be replaced when you do your normal uploads for the cycle
[12:05] <henrix> apw: ok, cool. maybe we can get jjohansen and infinity to have the current one on -updates today
[12:05] <apw> henrix, that would rock, i only care about lts-quantal the others are not blocking us at all
[12:06] <apw> henrix, if i wanted to upload something like this, i assume i would not put a tracking bug in it
[12:07] <apw> henrix, as it is not an SRU or indeed destined for anywhere, and i believe your tooling would just cope as it tells you the -vVERSION to use when making the src package
[12:07] <henrix> apw: no, tracking bugs are generated using a script, i.e., it has to be manually executed
[12:07] <henrix> apw: so, i guess that would be fine
[12:07] <apw> cool
[12:08] <apw> i will discuss with you all (bjf, herton etc) again later to make sure people are happy
[12:08] <henrix> apw: sure. in the mean time, i'll try to have it promoted to -updates today
[12:08] <apw> henrix, thanks indeed
[12:30] <rtg> apw, do you intend to create ubuntu-precise-signed.git ? I'm wondering if we shouldn't collapse all of the '-signed' repos into ubuntu-signed.git in order to cut down on the proliferation of the small repos.
[12:31] <rtg> of these*
[12:33] <ogra_> rtg, hey, i found some differently licensed firmware files for bug 1075549, linked it  in the last comment
[12:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1075549 in linux-firmware (Ubuntu Raring) "please include fw_bcmdhd.bin and bcm4330.hcd in linux-firmware for support of the nexus7" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1075549
[12:33] <rtg> ogra_, ack
[12:34] <rtg> ogra_, if it is appropriately licensed then why not just have Jani include it with the N7 kernel ?
[12:34] <ogra_> well, i suspect we'll have more devices using such a chipset in the future
[12:35] <ogra_> so linux-firmware seemed appropriate
[12:35] <ogra_> we'll surely have more android device support in the near future and will likely need firmware even beyond broadcom
[12:36] <apw> rtg, i was intending on that indeed.  to be inline with -meta
[12:36] <rtg> ogra_, I'll be doing the raring linux-firmware filtering against kernel MODULE_FIRMWARE() useage soon. Perhps that binary will pop up as being used by the kernel but not provided by linux-firmware.
[12:36] <ogra_> technically it doesnt make any difference where its shiupped indeed
[12:36] <apw> rtg, i should probabally do that for now, and we can revisit whether there should be a -meta.git and a -signed.git as you have for firmware
[12:36] <ogra_> as long as the driver finds it in the instaled system
[12:37] <apw> rtg, as a separate action
[12:37] <apw> rtg, as indeed right now it would be a strange -signed as it won't have a master
[12:38] <rtg> ogra_, for now why not include it with the N7 kernel. If I find its in wide use then we can always populate linux-firmware
[12:38] <ogra_> rtg, alternatively someone could try to get brcm80211 on the nexus, thjey claim to support our chip
[12:38] <ogra_> i didnt manage to though
[12:38] <rtg> apw, I'm just thinking these gizmos would be easier to manage if they were in a common repo.
[12:39] <apw> rtg, i cannot deny bootstrapping a local copy is a pain in the ass
[12:39] <apw> rtg, though once you have them there is little to differentiate them for me
[12:39] <rtg> apw, also updating your local repo is easier since you only have to fetch one origin
[12:40] <apw> rtg, there is slight advantage when one is doing what i am now, backporting features to have them separate
[12:40] <apw> rtg, but there is also nothing to prevent me having 3 clones of the same repo ...
[12:40] <ogra_> rtg, as i said, trechnically i dont care where it is shipped, l-f just seemed appropriate since a have a policy to get evereything for the device properly in the distro (like we would do with any x86 based device)
[12:40] <apw> rtg, if we merge this one, we should merge -meta as well
[12:41] <rtg> apw, agreed
[12:41] <apw> rtg, ok for now then i will play with it merged here and see how that works
[12:41] <rtg> apw, we should first make sure we don't cause herton problems with maint scripts
[12:42] <apw> rtg, i assume we use precise as 'master from precise'
[12:42] <apw> rtg, ok ... as it is easy to merge un-merge i'll proceed as i am then
[12:42] <apw> and engage with -stable on it.  it will break all the preproposed stuff if i mangle meta etc so
[12:42] <apw> some planning is needed
[12:43] <rtg> apw, I kind of wish we'd done this years ago.
[12:44] <apw> well it doesn't work for linux anyhow because of tag overlaps i believe
[12:44] <apw> but for the non-linux repos it is a reasonable plan
[12:44] <rtg> apw, right, but the other repos shouldn't
[12:45] <apw> rtg, and the tagging should be fixable postumously
[12:45] <apw> if we ever cared to do it
[12:45] <rtg> that would _really_ cause herton problems
[12:46] <apw> heh i am sure it would :)
[12:47] <apw> though the great things about signed tags is they can point to tags, so we can even preserve them old ones without maintaining the names
[12:47] <apw> as i do for the u* series
[12:50] <janimo> rtg, hi, is shipping firmware blobs in the kernel package being done by any other kernel flavour that I could look at? Would shipping in an entirely new package be ok as well as long as it is not linux-firmware?
[12:51] <rtg> janimo, have a look at the Quantal LTS branch in precise.
[12:52] <rtg> janimo, since firmware tends to track kernel versions I've been packaging firmware with the kernel when it isn't already provided by linux-firmware
[12:54]  * rtg fixes 'BUNTU: [Config] CONFIG_USB_OTG=n for all but armel/armhf' typo in raring
[13:01] <apw> rtg, i note we are using lts-backport-<series> for branch names regardless of name of the source package
[13:03]  * apw follows this for -signed
[13:08] <rtg> apw, right, since I started the naming convention quite some time before 'backport' became a dirty word.
[13:29]  * henrix -> SIGFOOD
[13:34] <arges> smb, caribou : somebody could be using this: http://moss.csc.ncsu.edu/~mueller/cluster/ps3/
[13:55] <janimo> rtg, apw has the possibility of using dpkg source format 3.0 for kernels ever come up?
[13:55] <janimo> just thought of that as it makes shipping blobs inside the package saner
[13:58] <rtg> janimo, how about a patch explaining the advantages ?
[13:59] <janimo> rtg, I'll try it on the nexus7 kernel first then see. Advantages should be about the same as for any other package that has witched
[13:59] <ogra_> rtg, multiple upstream tarballs
[13:59] <janimo> ogra_, upstream is a rolling git , so kernel may be special in that regard
[13:59] <ogra_> janimo, well, packages use a tarball still :)
[13:59]  * rtg will be back on in a bit
[14:00] <ogra_> no matter how well your VCS rolls them ;)
[14:01] <janimo> ogra_, one thing I could use though is not uploading 100Mb with each slight packaging change. But that is more of a native vs not distinction, not 1.0 vs 3.0
[14:01] <janimo> anyway, trying that on nexus kernel now
[14:27] <rainman> where can I get the details of power management protocols instructed by ubuntu-kernel on multicore systems?
[14:28] <BenC> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git takes *forever* to load, FYI
[14:29] <rtg> BenC, zinc is a little under powered. gitweb causes swapping
[14:30] <BenC> rtg: what's the reference tree I can use to base off of for powerpc?
[14:30] <rtg> git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-raring.git
[14:30] <BenC> Does that contain the mechanisms for having powerpc build out-of-mainline?
[14:30] <rtg> BenC, I could prep something for you in an hour os so if you'd like
[14:31] <rtg> BenC, it doesn't yet.
[14:31] <BenC> I'd appreciate that, thanks
[14:32] <rtg> BenC, gimme awhile. I'll get back to you
[14:32] <BenC> Ok
[14:56] <BenC> rtg: Do I just base it off of the ti-omap4 branch and debian.ti-omap4 directory? If so, that's easy enough for me to handle
[14:57] <rtg> BenC, Its gonna be a bit different, but close to the same. I'm almost there....
[14:57] <rainman> Hello, I need detailed information about Linux Operating System Power Management System Code(Drivers, protocols, algorithms, strategies) on especially multi-core systems. Can some experienced one give me a hand please? Thank you.
[14:58] <BenC> rainman: That could easily be a semester long 3xx level college course worth of information…maybe you can ask a specific question?
[15:00] <rainman> BenC: The question is, I am making a research on optimizing power of multi-core systems. In order for me to do that I first need to know what linux does in this respect and what does it allow for user-space applications to manipulate power schemas.
[15:01] <BenC> rainman: ==> www.google.com
[15:02] <rainman> BenC: Thanks for the hand.
[15:16] <rtg> BenC, have a look at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/rtg/ubuntu-raring.git ppc
[15:17] <rtg> this branch should be a strightforward rebase against raring master (eventually). I used master-next to start with.
[15:20] <rtg> BenC, once you've got it building then think about enabling the doc/headers indep/libc packages. See debian.ppc/rules.d/*.mk for that.
[15:23] <abogani> Is debian.powerpc too long? :-)
[15:24] <BenC> rtg: thanks
[15:25] <rtg> BenC, the ti-omap4 branch in Raring isn't really a good example. in fact, it may disappear if we can get a unified arm kernel working from master
[15:27] <ogra_> rtg, wow, brave target ... are you prepared to double up build time ? :)
[15:27] <rtg> ogra_, hey, thats just what my arm dudes are telling me....
[15:28] <rtg> why would it double up build time ?
[15:28] <BenC> rtg: do we really have a ppc64 port?
[15:28] <ogra_> rtg, omap  and omap4 are built on pandas
[15:28] <rtg> BenC, we've been building it. dunno if anyone is using it.
[15:29] <ogra_> so adding one new binary will get you one more build
[15:29] <BenC> I can't see it being built because there is no DEB_BUILD_ARCH=ppc64 on ubuntu
[15:29] <rtg> ogra_, it should be a wash if we can collapse arm4/5 into one binary
[15:29] <BenC> We have a powerpc64 kernel build for arch=powerpc
[15:30] <ogra_> rtg, we can do that already for omap ... prob here is that if we want to go on to support desktop on panda we'll have to add all the patches
[15:30] <ogra_> (mainline allows a single binary kernel for omap/omap4 atm)
[15:31] <BenC> rtg: I'll take care of it from here, thanks for setting up the tree
[15:31] <amitk> rtg: unified arm kernel was just a demo last week, there are still several problems to solve in real-life to get it into production
[15:31] <rtg> BenC, np. IIRC we pared down the powerpc flavours to just powerpc64-smp since it will also run on a UP
[15:32] <rtg> powerpc64*
[15:32] <rtg> amitk, so, you don't sound optimistic.
[15:33] <BenC>   * ppc64 -- add basic architecture
[15:33] <BenC> Added by Andy Whitcroft for 2.6.38 Feb/2011
[15:35] <rtg> BenC, I get lost in the acronyms for the power arch. ppc64 is different then powerpc64 ?
[15:35] <amitk> rtg: for R? A single fully-functional kernel for all your ARMs? I'm not. As they say in the single zImage world - it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. :)
[15:36] <BenC> rtg: yeah, it's a target for building a native 64-bit powerpc target (full userspace and such) that Debian supports, but we only have 32-bit powerpc userspace port, with 64-bit (powerpc64-smp) kernel
[15:36] <rtg> amitk, then I suppose I should get paolo bringing the ti-omap4 branch up to snuff.
[15:37] <rtg> BenC, ok, then that would be the fallout from an OEM deal that never panned. AFAIK we're only building the arches in debian.ppc/rules.d
[15:37] <amitk> rtg: he should talk to the architects of that work in Linaro, but yes, I'd do that.
[15:37] <BenC> Ok, I'll ditch it for now until I have a port to actually work on
[15:39] <rtg> BenC, cool. I'll consider it all your'n for now.
[15:42]  * ogasawara back in 20
[16:20] <StFS> Hi. I was hoping that 3.5.0-18 would have my alsa patch but it doesn't seem like it does. Is there a way for me to figure out what ubuntu kernel will include the patch for this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1060372
[16:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1060372 in linux (Ubuntu) "No audio from headphone jack on Ultrabase Series 3 with ThinkPad T430" [Medium,In progress]
[16:21] <rtg> bjf, can you try vanilla mainline 3.7-rc4 on that emerald ? 'PERCPU: allocation failed' seems pretty heinous.
[16:23] <bjf> rtg, sure
[16:24] <BenC> rtg: FYI, debian.ppc/config/enforce does not override debian.master/config/enforce. Should I just remove the latter?
[16:24] <BenC> Err, former
[16:24] <rtg> BenC, that sounds right. apw ^^
[16:25] <rtg> BenC, I likely copied it by accident.
[16:25] <BenC> Np
[16:25] <apw> rtg, BenC, indeed it just uses master version and deliberatly so.  if you need to change it do patch that file, but also send it back to us so we can record it as part of our requirements
[16:25] <BenC> Will do
[16:26] <apw> (and fold it back into the master version)
[17:05] <BenC>     CC perf.o
[17:05] <BenC> In file included from util/../perf.h:29:0,
[17:05] <BenC>                  from util/cache.h:7,
[17:05] <BenC>                  from perf.c:12:
[17:05] <BenC> util/../../../arch/powerpc/include/asm/unistd.h:12:29: fatal error: uapi/asm/unistd.h: No such file or directory
[17:05] <BenC> rtg: I'm seeing that when I kick off the build.
[17:05] <BenC> arch/powerpc/include/uapi/asm/unistd.h does indeed exist
[17:05] <BenC> Are you seeing that on other architectures?
[17:07] <rtg> BenC, I'm just building arm (which has a ways to go), so I'm not sure yet. I may have disable perf for all but x86en.
[17:07] <BenC> Disabling do_tools for now
[17:12] <smooth-texan> Where can I download older versions of the Ubuntu kernel?
[17:13] <infinity> smb: Your email seemed to lack the footnote you referenced. :P
[17:14] <infinity> smb: So, I'm not sure precisely which package you're referring to.  But, if it really is "useless" as-is, that's a pretty valid justification for an SRU, and if backporting the whole thing is more readily verifiable and sane than cherry-picking patches, we'll need to look at doing it that way, yes.
[17:27] <BenC> rtg: So for meta, I'm just creating a whole new standalone package, right?
[17:27] <rtg> BenC, yep. you could start with raring-meta from a few commits ago (before ppc was removed)
[17:27] <BenC> Ok
[18:30]  * rtg -> lunch
[19:11]  * henrix -> EOD
[19:31] <rtg> apw, just pushed ubuntu-raring-signed. please review before I upload it.
[19:38] <arges> infinity, I think he was referring to bug 1064475
[19:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064475 in crash (Ubuntu) "crash version is outdated. Needs to import Debian version of the package" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064475
[19:39]  * ogasawara lunch
[20:00] <bjf> rtg, same results with the mainline kernel
[20:10] <BenC> ogasawara: Any thoughts on moving powerpc specific kernel bugs to the new linux-ppc package?
[20:12] <ogasawara> BenC: that works for me.  Is that package in the archive yet?  /me is not seeing it
[20:13] <BenC> Not yet
[20:13] <BenC> rtf branches for me today and I'm still in the process of testing the builds
[20:13] <BenC> *rtg
[20:14] <ogasawara> BenC: ack, lemme know when it's there and I'll have jsalisbury migrate existing bugs
[20:14] <BenC> Great, thanks
[20:24] <jsalisbury> ogasawara, BenC, ack
[20:25] <infinity> Oo, new kernels.  Yay.
[20:26] <infinity> BenC: Where is this PPC kernel maintenance going to be happening?  With a community hat on, I might want to get in on that action, should you ever drop the ball on a rebase or something. :P
[20:26] <infinity> (Plus, I want to learn apw's new world order of out-of-tree maintenance)
[20:27] <BenC> infinity: I have it on github. What email can I forward the info to you?
[20:27] <BenC> Sent info to ubuntu-powerpc and kernel-team, but I suspect you may not be on either of those
[20:27] <infinity> BenC: I'm on the latter, but I don't read it often.
[20:28] <infinity> BenC: But sending to adconrad@whatever will do fine.
[20:28] <infinity> BenC: You could also pre-emptively give me commit on the github project. ;)
[20:28] <BenC> Is that adconrad as well?
[20:29] <BenC> infinity: You could just fork it and send pull requests :P
[20:29] <infinity> BenC: Looks like.
[20:29] <infinity> BenC: If I'm doing scary things, fork and pull makes sense.  If I'm doing things I intend to actually upload (rebases, security updates, whatever), I'd rather the master repo match the archive.
[20:30] <BenC> infinity: you've been added to the kernel and meta packages
[20:30] <infinity> Danke.
[20:30] <infinity> I don't intend to use this power, except in anger.
[20:31] <infinity> But if you fall behind, I want my PPC kernels to match my x86 kit. :P
[20:31] <BenC> Your vengeance is likely better than most people's whole-hearted attempts at chipping in
[20:33] <rtg> bjf, ack. I'll work on it tomorrow.
[20:33]  * rtg -> EOD


[00:48] <Cimi_> dashua,
[00:48] <Cimi_>         GtkScale       ::slider-width         = 19
[00:48] <Cimi_>         GtkScale       ::slider-length        = 12
[00:48] <Cimi_>         GtkScale       ::trough-side-details  = 1
[00:48] <Cimi_> try these
[00:48] <dashua> Will do.  Thx.
[00:51] <dashua> Cimi_: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-16.png
[00:51] <dashua> I do want to change those scrollbars.
[00:52] <_MMA_> dashua: You gotta see what you can do about your formatting on your ML posts. You post shows as a signature and the post you wanna quote isn't quoted. Screenshot: http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4628/screenshotjv9.png
[00:53] <_MMA_> dashua: And it's usually a good idea to pull out the quoted footer when replying.
[00:53] <dashua> _MMA_: Ah damn.  Ok.  I'm using yahoo trying to bottom post.  Not working so well.
[00:53] <dashua> Sorry about that.
[00:53] <_MMA_> np. Just letting ya know. :)
[00:54] <dashua> Thx :)
[00:54] <Cimi_> dashua, change the thickness of your scale sliders to 3
[00:54] <Cimi_> x/y thickness
[00:55] <dashua> K
[00:55] <Cimi_> those sliders are fat and without the shadow
[00:57] <_MMA_> Cimi_: Man you keep hours like you live on the west coast of the States.
[00:57] <_MMA_> Isn't it like 1 or 2am for you?
[00:58] <dashua> Cimi_: http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot-17.1233017872.png
[00:58] <Cimi_> 2 am
[00:58] <dashua> Nice
[00:58] <dashua> Thx
[00:59] <dashua> I'm going to work on porting Dust when I have some extra time.
[01:00] <_MMA_> dashua: *GOD* I wish you could adjust the size of that GNOME-Do dock. That and I wish it was drawn on the GPU.   I think this is default.  I deleted my gconf settings
[01:02] <_MMA_> huh? Maybe I need to blow out my settings then.
[01:02] <_MMA_> The effect lags bad.
[01:02] <dashua> What video card do you have?
[01:02] <_MMA_> nVidia
[01:03] <dashua> The old nvidia drivers (178.82) were very slow.  180.22 is like a dream with Docky.
[01:03] <dashua> I had the same issue.
[01:03] <dashua> Updated drivers and it was fast.
[01:03] <_MMA_> Ha! It actually sped up after i cleared out my settings. (left there from old installs)
[01:04] <dashua> Just as fast as the OSX dock.
[01:04] <dashua> Parabolic zoom anyways.  It gets a little slow over time, but nothing catastrophic.
[01:04] <_MMA_> But, there's a cease & desist letter waiting for sure.
[01:05] <Cimi_> _MMA_, that's true
[01:05] <dashua> Probably
[01:05] <Cimi_> 178 are very slow
[01:05] <Cimi_> here docky is quite usable on the netbook
[01:05] <Cimi_> intel atom intel 950
[01:05] <dashua> _MMA_: Any updated to Breathe coming soon?
[01:06] <_MMA_> dashua: I got sucked into Ubuntu Studio updates/testing this weekend so I should get Breathe updated this week.
[01:06] <dashua> Ah ok. Nice.
[01:07] <andreasn> ah, good to know I'm not the only one having issues with the animations in GNOME Do
[01:07] <andreasn> I thought I had broken something
[01:08] <_MMA_> I think I'm just runnin' the strait 177 repo drivers actually.
[01:08] <dashua> I stopped using Docky because of the performance on 178, 180 is very fast.  World of difference.
[01:09] <_MMA_> Since the kernel updates have been dropping off maybe I'll grab the latest ones from nVidia.
[01:12] <dashua> I'm on Jaunty.  I have to use IgnoreABI option, but it worked fine when I was on Intrepid.
[01:12] <_MMA_> dashua: Oh wow. You're more brave than I am. :P
[01:13] <dashua> Yeah, it's actually working with minimal breakage so far.
[01:13] <_MMA_> I'll probably put it on the laptop after next alpha.
[01:14] <dashua> I haven't ventured to Ext4 yet.
[01:14] <dashua> Although, I know I will be tempted =/
[01:14] <_MMA_> I have in VM. No trouble so far.
[01:14] <dashua> Ah nice.  I heard it was working fairly well.
[01:16] <dashua> Cimi_: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-18.png
[01:16] <dashua> Sliders look nice. Thx
[01:17]  * Cimi_ moved to fedora but still likes to contribute on ubuntu-art LOL
[01:18] <dashua> Linus apparently moved to GNOME, so I guess anything is possible =/
[01:19] <_MMA_> meh. Ubuntu has a better repo structure and package manager IMO.
[01:19] <_MMA_> dashua: hahaha *seriously* :P
[01:20] <Cimi_> apt is the fastest
[01:20] <Cimi_> but I prefer the way rpm are build from .specs and the integration of yum with packagekit
[01:21] <dashua> Cimi_: You stopped using Arch?
[01:21] <Cimi_> also I dislike the way debian/ubuntu maintainers are used to patch every single piece of software
[01:21] <Cimi_> dashua, yeah on august
[01:21] <dashua> Wow.
[01:21] <Cimi_> and yes, I dislike brown :P
[01:21] <_MMA_> Cimi_: Not true. Only stuff with *ubuntu on the packages.
[01:22] <Cimi_> _MMA_, on ubuntu you get different gnome interfaces
[01:22] <Cimi_> patches almost everywhere
[01:22] <Cimi_> and old software
[01:22] <_MMA_> And .rpms are dead tech. The same guy that made .rpm told me so. :)
[01:23]  * dashua is off to work
[01:23] <dashua> Later
[01:23] <_MMA_> later
[01:23] <Cimi_> _MMA_, could be, as I said the way apt manages its database is incredible (positively)
[01:23] <Cimi_> just think about complicated features like "autoremove"
[01:24] <Cimi_> which, if you think deeply, are really complicated to implement if you don't have a solid database
[01:25] <_MMA_> Cimi_: So yeah alot of GNOME might be touched (and Im not sure why) but its hard to touch "every single piece of software" in 22,000 some odd packages. :P
[01:25]  * Cimi_ hides
[01:25] <Cimi_> :P
[01:26] <Cimi_> I had that feeling
[01:26] <_MMA_> Cimi_: Foresight uses Conary. Which was created to address the shortcomings of RPM.
[01:26] <Cimi_> when using ubuntu I felt like they like to patch everything
[01:26] <_MMA_> Foresight is nice but its repo is anemic.
[01:27] <Cimi_> yum has a lot of useful features
[01:27] <Cimi_> for example
[01:28] <Cimi_> I needed an updated kernel for my machine, so I was thinking about the development branch (rawhide) which is similar to jaunty. Though I didn't like the idea of updating the whole system
[01:28] <Cimi_> what I did was: yum install --enablerepo=rawhide kernel
[01:29] <Cimi_> and it took the updated kernel, 2.6.29.rc2-git1
[01:29] <Cimi_> that is really hard with apt
[01:30] <_MMA_> Yep.
[01:32] <savvas> what's hard?
[01:33] <savvas> ah, you mean to install a package by enabling a specific repository once?
[01:33] <Cimi_> anyway the real reason for the change is that fedora works out of the box with my samsung nc10, while ubuntu requires to compile an updated alsa, installing a wireless module through the svn, editing the xorg.conf for the touchpad, enable some fixes for the scrolling, add some scripts for the fn+keys... and so on
[01:34] <Cimi_> mainly because ubuntu has older packages
[01:36] <_MMA_> Cimi_: Sure. I'd *try* Jaunty. Might be better there.
[01:36] <_MMA_> I think Ill switch the laptop tomorrow.
[01:36] <Cimi_> _MMA_, is my english improved over these months or is it still something odd to yours?
[01:36] <Cimi_> that's was OT of course :)
[01:37] <_MMA_> Cimi_: It is better. You're not using words like "ugly" all the time anymore.  :P
[01:41] <_MMA_> Neat: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/testing-kde-42-release-candidate-on-windows.ars
[01:57] <Cimi_> impressive
[01:59] <_MMA_> Though I think Amarok2 (and Amarok in general) is a terrible mess. IMO there's nothing elegant about it.

[01:59] <_MMA_> :P
[02:01]  * _MMA_ looks around for other KDE/QT music aps.
[02:01] <_MMA_> *apps
[02:02] <Cimi_> _MMA_, no
[02:02] <Cimi_> it's just ugly
[02:02] <Cimi_> :-P
[02:02] <_MMA_> ;)
[09:14] <ziroday> Hi, is there a murrine svn ppa anywhere?
[09:16] <zniavre> ziroday: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Murrine+Gtk2+Engine+DEB?content=96422
[09:17] <zniavre> i do not hink there is a ppa's repos
[09:17] <ziroday> zniavre: sweet thanks
[09:17] <zniavre> think*
[09:17] <ziroday> that'll do :)


[00:11] <mup> Bug #1608739 opened: [2.0rc3] contents of /etc/maas permissions incorrect <cdo-qa> <cdo-qa-blocker> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1608739>
[15:42]  * D4RKS1D3 Hi
[19:50] <mup> Bug #1609102 opened: We can't assume that MAAS2 always runs a proxy anymore <maas-2.0> <Landscape Server:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1609102>
[20:50] <mup> Bug #1609102 changed: We can't assume that MAAS2 always runs a proxy anymore <maas-2.0> <Landscape Server:New> <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1609102>


[22:27] <TLF> Hello. May I ask If there are any plans to get the Ubuntu Mozilla Daily PPA into Wily? Thanks.


[22:18] <apachelogger_> mok0: well, maybe my pbuilder is silly
[22:18] <apachelogger_> mok0: nuke dh_link
[22:18] <apachelogger_> doesn't do anything
[22:19] <mok0> apachelogger_: right
[22:19] <mok0> apachelogger_: fixperms neither, for that matter :-)
[22:19] <apachelogger_> actually
[22:20] <apachelogger_> fixperms does do something :P
[22:20] <mok0> apachelogger_: perhaps it depends on the umask
[22:20] <apachelogger_> *shrug*
[22:20] <apachelogger_> better have permissions fixed than not :P
[22:20] <mok0> apachelogger_: yeah
[22:20] <apachelogger_> mok0: any good reasony for the ####?
[22:21] <mok0> apachelogger_: it's my tag. bluekuja let me keep it ;-)
[22:21] <apachelogger_> mok0: was he in nazi mode? :P
[22:21] <mok0> apachelogger_: what's with the awk script?
[22:22] <apachelogger_> mok0: why?
[22:22] <norsetto> mok0: if your rules uses awk than you need it as a build-depends (its not part an essential package)
[22:22] <mok0> apachelogger_: you talked about syntax error;
[22:22] <apachelogger_> norsetto: that would explain my error I guess
[22:22] <norsetto> mok0: or consider using mawk (which is an essential package)
[22:23] <norsetto> mok0: or just use sed :-)
[22:23] <mok0> norsetto: ah! thanks, good idea
[22:23]  * jussi01 wonders what the qmake command for qt4 is in ubuntu?
[22:23] <mok0> norsetto: I need a pipe, so with awk we only have to create 1 process.  :-)
[22:24] <apachelogger_> jussi01: qmake-qt4
[22:24] <mok0> norsetto: with sed I will need a pipe
[22:24] <jussi01> apachelogger_: thank you
[22:24] <apachelogger_> you're welcome
[22:24] <norsetto> mok0: yes ... and ... are we short of them?
[22:24] <apachelogger_> mok0: unnecessary white space in copyright file, line 17, 2007  Douglas
[22:25] <jussi01> and remind me if you will which libs i need for qt4 -dev stuff?
[22:25] <mok0> norsetto: nah, I just that I like awk a lot
[22:25] <norsetto> mok0: well, then add it as a build-deps or use mawk
[22:26] <mok0> apachelogger_: you mean between "2007" and "Douglas"?
[22:26] <apachelogger_> yes
[22:26] <apachelogger_> mok0: please update debianized time in copyright to the one in changelog
[22:26]  * mok0 tests mawk
[22:26] <mok0> apachelogger_: god damn
[22:27] <apachelogger_> meh
[22:27] <txwikinger> moo
[22:27] <mok0> apachelogger_: it's dh_make's fault!
[22:27] <apachelogger_> so kick it
[22:27] <Seveas> dh_make is horrible
[22:27]  * apachelogger_ uses his own templates
[22:28] <apachelogger_> much faster
[22:28] <apachelogger_> mok0: I'd rather not see rules, line 19, exceed 80 characters
[22:28] <mok0> apachelogger_: you mean, if someone decides to punch it out on cards?
[22:29] <apachelogger_> nah, if someone wants to edit it on a small console
[22:29] <apachelogger_> mok0: 2 unnecessary white spaces in changelog, line 14
[22:30] <apachelogger_> mok0: 1 unnecessary new line at the very end of control
[22:30]  * apachelogger_ reads description
[22:31] <apachelogger_> hum, is superpositioning actually a valid word?
[22:31] <mok0> apachelogger_: yes
[22:31] <mok0> apachelogger_: but perhaps not the best languae.
[22:32] <mok0> language
[22:32] <apachelogger_> well, IMO the description is too complex
[22:32] <apachelogger_> should be very easy to understand, so that everyone can evaluate whether he/she wants to read the extended-description or not
[22:32] <apachelogger_> personal opinion though
[22:33] <mok0> apachelogger_: yeah, perhaps. It's a description for people who know what the program is for
[22:33] <mok0> apachelogger_:  I'll see if I can improve it
[22:33] <apachelogger_> mok0: which isn't really what a description is for, is it? :P
[22:33] <mok0> apachelogger_: are you saying it's so people can decide that they don't want to use this program ;-)
[22:34] <apachelogger_> kinda, it aims a very special audience
[22:34] <mok0> apachelogger_: you are right. 'll work on it.
[22:36] <ScottK> norsetto: I think the new elisa is a sync.  If you have a hopeful whoe could use the practice to check/test, please go for it.
[22:37] <norsetto> scottk: why not assigning it to yourself as a mentor?
[22:37] <norsetto> ScottK: wait, there is no bug report yet, right?
[22:38] <ScottK> norsetto: Right.  I just saw it on DaD.
[22:38] <mok0> apachelogger_:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2435/
[22:38] <apachelogger_> very special purpose apps go priority extra, right?
[22:39] <apachelogger_> mok0: looks good
[22:39] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Not exactly.
[22:39] <norsetto> scottk: the best would be to send an email to ubuntu-motu-mentors, but since you refuse to do that, just send it to ubuntu-motu, some contributor will pick it up
[22:39] <ScottK> Well I'm not subscribed to mentors, so it'd just be moderated anyway.
[22:39] <Fujitsu> Isn't the optional/extra distinction that those in extra can conflict with others?
[22:40] <StevenK> Those in extra Conflict with some in optional
[22:40] <Fujitsu> Right, that's what I thought.
[22:40] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Something like that.  It's explicitly defined in I don't remember where exactly.
[22:40] <StevenK> It's defined in Debian Policy
[22:40] <ScottK> StevenK: I thought it was conflict with or could be confused with both.
[22:40] <apachelogger_> ScottK: so, what does that last part mean?:  This contains all packages that conflict with others with required, important, standard or optional priorities, or are only likely to be useful if you already know what they are or have specialized requirements.
[22:41] <mok0> apachelogger_, norsetto: grrrrrr, mawk gives the syntax error...
[22:41] <ScottK> apachelogger_: As an example, gnupg and gnupg2 do not conflict.
[22:41] <crimsun> mok0: then b-d explicitly on gawk
[22:41] <norsetto> mok0: yes, thats what I meant, you have to adapt it to mawk
[22:41] <ScottK> apachelogger_: gnupg2 is extra because it could be confused with gnupg and it's the preferred one to use.
[22:42] <apachelogger_> ScottK: ah, I think I got it, thanks :)
[22:42] <mok0> crimsun: thx. I'll invoke it as gawk, than
[22:43] <crimsun> mok0: I'm only half-paying attention.  If you need it to generate binaries correctly, use a b-d.
[22:43] <mok0> crimsun: I got the hint I needed :-)
[22:43]  * apachelogger_ is afraid
[22:44] <mok0> apachelogger_: OK nazipachelogger, got more? :-D
[22:45] <apachelogger_> mok0: you might suggest upstream to update his FSF addresses in the license statements
[22:45] <mok0> apachelogger_: I can patch them
[22:46] <apachelogger_> nah, no need
[22:46] <apachelogger_> upstream should fix this
[22:46]  * txwikinger feels offended
[22:46] <apachelogger_> txwikinger: why that?
[22:46] <txwikinger> all this raising of the German history is not very respectful
[22:47] <apachelogger_> -.-
[22:47] <crimsun> mmkay.
[22:47]  * Fujitsu suspected that would come up.
[22:47] <crimsun> s/nazi/pedantic /, then
[22:47] <mok0> txwikinger: respectful, to whom?
[22:47] <apachelogger_> right
[22:47] <mok0> txwikinger: apachelogger_
[22:47] <crimsun> also, there are bigger fish to fry, so whatever.
[22:47] <mok0> txwikinger: and I have been bullshitting for a while
[22:47] <txwikinger> well mok0 I am sorry
[22:48] <apachelogger_> mok0: in coypright you should write "The libdltmath/ncbi_math.h and libdltmath/ncbi_math.c .." since they aren't in ./ :P
[22:48] <mok0> apachelogger_: touché
[22:48]  * apachelogger_ suspects that everyone was just waiting for something to bring up the history thing
[22:48] <ScottK> Well I'll just juump in and say that I was moderately uncomfortable with the use of the term, but wasn't going to mention it.
[22:48] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Yes.
[22:49] <apachelogger_> we never use that again
[22:49] <apachelogger_> pedantic sounds better anyway
[22:49] <apachelogger_> muahaha
[22:49] <ScottK> It's also accurate.
[22:49] <mok0> and we wont mention the soup-xxxx
[22:49] <ScottK> mok0: That's a special case.  I don't mind that one.
[22:50] <norsetto> mok0: have you considered joining debichem?
[22:50] <mok0> norsetto: I've never heard about it
[22:50] <mok0> In fact, I've had my hands full getting to know ubuntu
[22:51] <mok0> and getting to know some people here
[22:51] <norsetto> mok0: its a small group in debian who is interested in packaging and maintaining chemistry related packages
[22:51] <apachelogger_> mok0: DLTmath.h is inculding code from ncbi_math.h, hence partly PD
[22:51] <apachelogger_> se line 1541
[22:51] <mok0> apachelogger_: ok
[22:51] <ScottK> superm1_: Are you interested in seeing if we can sync elisa from Debian?
[22:52] <apachelogger_> mok0: that file actually appears twice
[22:52] <apachelogger_> libdistfit/ and libdltmath/
[22:52] <mok0> norsetto: I'll check it out. I've been packaging some science packages that we use in my lab. I got a few into gutsy, thanks to ScottK  and others
[22:53] <apachelogger_> mok0: same applies for libdistfit/distfit.h
[22:53] <superm1_> ScottK, is it stable yet?
[22:53] <mok0> norsetto: I know for a fact that lots of people in my field are starting to use ubuntu
[22:53] <apachelogger_> mok0: DLTmath.h and distfit.h also appea in the main directory
[22:53] <apachelogger_> ok
[22:53] <apachelogger_> mok0: that's it
[22:53] <apachelogger_> can't find anymore issues :P
[22:54]  * apachelogger_ now needs a cigarette
[22:54] <norsetto> mok0: I see a little problem
[22:54] <ScottK> superm1_: It look like the same thing we already have.
[22:54] <mok0> apachelogger_: Well, you deserve it you really _are_ a na^H^Hpedantic
[22:54] <ScottK> It's the same upstream version and I think it has all the Ubuntu changes in it.
[22:54] <norsetto> mok0: your package ships a pdf file without the "preferred form of modification"I think
[22:54] <mok0> norsetto: what's that?
[22:55] <apachelogger_> oh
[22:55] <apachelogger_> I agree
[22:55] <ScottK> mok0: It needs to be something editable.
[22:55] <mok0> Like, no PDFs?
[22:55] <apachelogger_> well
[22:55] <ScottK> Whatever the 'source' for the PDF is.
[22:55] <apachelogger_> like the source of the PDF
[22:55] <mok0> I don't think the source is there
[22:55] <apachelogger_> that's the problem
[22:56] <apachelogger_> mok0: upstream has to include a source for the PDF
[22:56] <apachelogger_> or remove the pdf
[22:56] <mok0> apachelogger_: that's silly
[22:56] <apachelogger_> and, ScottK may correct me on this, if he doesn't want to do either you should probably repack the tarball
[22:56] <norsetto> mok0: no, thats GPL
[22:56] <superm1_> ScottK, yeah looking over a debdiff from us to them, it looks like we should be able to
[22:56] <superm1_> i'll do a test build and see
[22:56] <ScottK> superm1_: Thanks.
[22:57] <mok0> hm
[22:57] <mok0> so no docs is better than pdfs?
[22:57] <ScottK> mok0: If you don't have the source, then it's not distributable.  You can repack the tarball with an alternative form.
[22:57] <mok0> He probably wrote it in MS-Word or something
[22:58] <ScottK> Which, if you had it, you could easily convert to ODF and include.
[22:58] <apachelogger_> well, get the doc and convert it to odt, or he might export the msword doc to html
[22:58] <mok0> apachelogger_: Does it need a license clause inside?
[22:58] <apachelogger_> oh
[22:59] <apachelogger_> actually it was created with groff
[22:59] <ScottK> mok0: Ideally yes.
[22:59] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Is the groff source present?
[22:59] <apachelogger_> thats a gnu thingy
[22:59] <apachelogger_> http://www.gnu.org/software/groff/
[22:59] <mok0> Ah, it's the groff formatted man page
[22:59] <norsetto> mok0: btw, you are not installing it
[22:59] <mok0> so the source _is_ there
[23:00] <mok0> norsetto: now I remember: I thought it was redundant
[23:00] <norsetto> mok0: its possible, I didn't check it
[23:00] <mok0> norsetto: I did
[23:00] <apachelogger_> yep
[23:01] <apachelogger_> the pdf is just an export of the man page
[23:01] <apachelogger_> issue resolved
[23:01] <mok0> apachelogger_: yes
[23:01] <norsetto> mok0: so, just get rid of it from the tarball
[23:01] <mok0> phew
[23:01] <apachelogger_> norsetto: why can't it stay?
[23:01] <mok0> norsetto: why?
[23:01] <ScottK> If it's generated from source that's provided it
[23:01] <RainCT> good night
[23:01] <ScottK> is fine
[23:01] <ScottK> good night RainCT
[23:02] <imbrandon> ScottK: after all the "zomg! you shouldent have said anything" comments there is some actual meat there now :)
[23:02] <norsetto> mok0: whats the source then?
[23:02] <mok0> norsetto: I can provide a script to generate it
[23:02] <mok0> norsetto: theseus.1
[23:02] <imbrandon> ScottK: the debian vmware psudo package mantainer even chimed in with some data
[23:02] <mok0> norsetto: without my patcches
[23:02] <norsetto> mok0: ok, if thats the case than issue is solved
[23:03] <ScottK> imbrandon: Cool.  I'm looking now.
[23:03] <apachelogger_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/theseus-0712022250/theseus-1.1.5/theseus.1 -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/theseus-0712022250/theseus-1.1.5/theseus_man.pdf
[23:03] <mok0> **phew**
[23:03] <apachelogger_> mok0: now get everything else sorted out! :P
[23:03] <mok0> I was keeping up with you until the PD stuff
[23:03]  * apachelogger_ heads outside meanwhile
[23:04]  * mok0 scrolls back
[23:04]  * mok0 is releaved after fighting off 3 MOTUs :-)
[23:04] <apachelogger_> basically you have the 2 PD files from before plus some files which include the .h
[23:04] <apachelogger_> mok0: lol
[23:04] <apachelogger_> afk
[23:05] <norsetto> hehe, love this: HISTORY: Long, tedious, and sordid.
[23:05] <mok0> norsetto: yes, it's funny
[23:05] <norsetto> mok0: funny guys you alchimists .....
[23:05] <mok0> norsetto: lol
[23:06] <mok0> norsetto: I will try to get xtide processed tomorrow
[23:06] <norsetto> mok0: sure
[23:06] <ScottK> imbrandon: It looks good.  It would have been better not to put it on p.d.o though.
[23:06] <imbrandon> its not
[23:07] <imbrandon> well not after the first hour ( feedburner screwed me )
[23:08] <norsetto> mok0: you should compile with the -g flag
[23:10] <ScottK> imbrandon: OK.  Good.
[23:10] <ScottK> imbrandon: Looks like Christer Edwards kind of changed his tune too.
[23:10] <imbrandon> ahh i dident see that one yet /me looks
[23:11] <imbrandon> hrm i only see once comment from him
[23:11] <imbrandon> #5
[23:13] <Fujitsu> Ooh, we're lazy because we don't upgrade packages in stable releases.
[23:14] <Fujitsu> Watch out, we're going to be replaced.
[23:14] <apachelogger_> ScottK: can you please have a look at bug 173532
[23:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173532 in feisty-backports "please backport psi 0.11" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173532
[23:16] <imbrandon> looks like they missed out on some important information, like a feisty pbuilder log
[23:16] <imbrandon> and that they actualy tested it etc
[23:17] <apachelogger_> imbrandon: he's more like a user ;-)
[23:18] <imbrandon> apachelogger_: yea but i'm still not gonna ack it untill those are done by $someone :)
[23:19]  * apachelogger_ feels like he has to do that :P
[23:19] <imbrandon> heh, dinner time, bbiab
[23:19] <mok0> apachelogger_: re the PD files, it looks like he relicensed them as GPL
[23:20] <apachelogger_> mok0: huh?
[23:20] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Not right now.  Headed out for a while.
[23:20] <mok0> apachelogger_: ncbi_math.* have both GPL and PD license in them
[23:21] <mok0> apachelogger_: so I should be able to get rid of the extra complication in copyright
[23:22] <apachelogger_> can one actually do that?
[23:22] <mok0> apachelogger_: of course. It's in the public domain
[23:22] <apachelogger_> *shrug*
[23:22] <mok0> apachelogger_: and the guy is american
[23:22] <apachelogger_> I'm not really into PD stuff :P
[23:22] <apachelogger_> mok0: still I think you should mention it
[23:22] <norsetto> mok0: ok, I see the problem, you define CFLAGS but you don't pass it to make
[23:23] <StevenK> If it's exported, it should be okay
[23:23] <norsetto> stevenk: its not
[23:23] <mok0> apachelogger_: AFAIK it only has a meaning in the US¨
[23:23] <apachelogger_> *shrug*
[23:23] <mok0> norsetto: right. it's not used, I should get rid of it
[23:23] <apachelogger_> archive admins will reject it if they don't like :P
[23:24] <norsetto> mok0: well, then you don't pass the -g flag as you should
[23:24] <mok0> norsetto: hang on...
[23:25] <mok0> norsetto: why do you need -g? We strip symbols anyway
[23:25] <mok0> norsetto: look in patches/200-make.inc.dpatch
[23:26] <norsetto> mok0: yes, I don't see it there, as I didn't see it in the build log
[23:26] <mok0> norsetto: I don't understand why -g is needed
[23:26] <mok0> norsetto: We always use dh_strip
[23:27] <norsetto> mok0: yes, thats the policy
[23:27] <mok0> norsetto: so first create symbols, then strip them from the exe? That's stupid
[23:28] <StevenK> mok0: So that those debugging symbols can be split off by the buildds
[23:28] <mok0> norsetto: and doesn't -g turn off optimization
[23:28] <norsetto> mok0: no
[23:29] <mok0> norsetto: ok, I'll put -g in there, then
[23:30] <mok0> btw, what's the minimum 86 platform we build for? i486? i586?
[23:30] <StevenK> i486
[23:30] <StevenK> i386 gets emulated or something strange
[23:31] <mok0> StevenK: so is there a -march required cf. policy?
[23:32] <StevenK> Don't pass one, let the compiler make up it's own mind
[23:32] <mok0> StevenK: ok
[23:32]  * norsetto is pondering going to bed
[23:44] <txwikinger> why does i386 get emulated?
[23:45] <txwikinger> i386 is built natively
[23:45]  * mok0 thinks that i486 code will not run on an old 386 machine
[23:46] <txwikinger> well mok0 if there are opcodes that are not part of the i386 opcode set that this is correct
[23:46] <StevenK> txwikinger: Emulated in libc ...
[23:46] <mok0> StevenK: errr...?
[23:47] <mok0> StevenK: there is more code in a program than library calls
[23:47] <StevenK> You call an i486 op code on an i386, it throws SIGILL, libc traps the SIGILL and deals
[23:47] <StevenK> Keep in mind, this is going back *years*, and is based on Debian knowledge
[23:48] <mok0> StevenK: got it
[23:48] <txwikinger> it should be all done with the compiler options
[23:49] <txwikinger> gcc can compile and optimise according to the opcode set that is given to it
[23:50] <StevenK> I thought it was libc that dropped support for i386 then
[23:50]  * StevenK shrugs. Who knows
[23:50] <txwikinger> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.1.1/gcc/i386-and-x86-64-Options.html
[23:50] <StevenK> It wasn't about the compiler, it was about libc, I remember that much.
[23:52] <mok0> There is a _lot_ to be gained > 10% on when compiling with --target=athlon for that target
[23:52] <mok0> on execution speed
[23:52] <txwikinger> aren't there different packages for i386 and i686?
[23:52] <imbrandon> no
[23:53] <TheMuso> I386 packages need to be built for the lowest common denominator.
[23:53] <StevenK> mok0: Yes, but no one has come up with benchmarks and metrics that show the real difference, it's all conjecture and "my gentoo goes faster"
[23:53] <mok0> Some packages, i.e. atlas, is available for the various platforms
[23:54] <mok0> StevenK: I have tried to benchmark it on the same machine.
[23:54] <txwikinger> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=libc&searchon=names&subword=1&version=gutsy&release=all
[23:54] <StevenK> Which isn't reproducible for other people
[23:54] <txwikinger> there is a libc for i386 and one optimised for i686
[23:54] <mok0> StevenK:  why not?
[23:54] <StevenK> mok0: Because they don't have your machine?
[23:55] <mok0> If they have a K7 or K8 CPU it will
[23:55] <StevenK> They may not have your stepping or CPU speed
[23:55] <superm1_> norsetto, ping
[23:55] <superm1_> if you're still awake
[23:55] <StevenK> This is my point, it's quite machine-specific
[23:56] <mok0> StevenK: I agree that the speed gain may not be the same percentage, but you get more efficient code nonetheless
[23:56] <imbrandon> that may or may not work for everyone
[23:56] <StevenK> Right
[23:56] <imbrandon> lowest common denom
[23:56] <mok0> StevenK: The compiler can make special optimization for the athlon platform
[23:57] <StevenK> mok0: Which will just give SIGILLs on the Pentium I use as a firewall
[23:57] <mok0> StevenK: you also get faster code when compiling with -march=i686
[23:57] <imbrandon> mok0: and that screws those like me that have no AMD chips and / or use non x86
[23:57] <norsetto> superm1_: barely :-)
[23:57] <superm1_> well maybe someone else can field an answer.  i saw that norsetto added a patch to vlc on gutsy that fixed it from opening multiple instances from multiple files by having it call wxvlc %F.  Well upstream now ships with a %U in the field of the .desktop file by default, so i'm not sure what the appropriate thing to do is.  what does the %U vs %F change?
[23:57] <superm1_> oh hi norsetto
[23:58] <superm1_> maybe you will know then
[23:58] <mok0> imbrandon: we would need a new arch
[23:58] <mok0> != i386
[23:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about i386 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:58] <StevenK> Ha
[23:58] <StevenK> ubotu: Shut up
[23:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about shut up - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:58] <mok0> hehe
[23:58] <imbrandon> mok0: ok come up with hard reporduceable numbers and propose it, but i doubt that will happen
[23:58] <mok0> imbrandon: no kidding?
[23:59] <norsetto> superm1_: yes, I remember that
[23:59] <mok0> norsetto: I thought you'd gone to bed...
[23:59] <norsetto> mok0: struggling but keeping the position


[00:06] <savvas> if the maintainer of a package is the ubuntu desktop team, do I subscribe the main sponsors or the universe sponsors group when I provide a debdiff/fix?
[00:07] <savvas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-browser/+bug/188468
[00:25] <Hobbsee> !info epiphany-browser
[00:25] <Hobbsee> savvas: it's in main, so main sponsors
[00:27] <savvas> ah I see, thanks Hobbsee :)
[00:28] <savvas> may you have a wonderful helping-us-out year :P
[00:40] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:26] <direw0lf> Please set bug 312674 to "wishlist." Thanks!
[02:38] <blueyed> direw0lf: done.
[02:39] <direw0lf> Thx
[03:05] <direw0lf> question: Should a feature request for an upstream application (in this case, a gnome applet) be forwarded to the upstream bug tracker, or placed on our own wishlist?
[03:05] <maco> direw0lf: yeah, forward it
[03:07] <direw0lf> thx
[03:12] <tcole> generally we try to upstream stuff when it is reasonable to do so
[03:13] <direw0lf> I was looking at the gnome bugtracker and they don't seem to have a category for enhancements
[03:15] <direw0lf> nm...found it.
[03:15] <direw0lf> I think it is time for a drink. :)
[07:55] <jarlath> Can someone advise me what to add to this report so it's status can be moved on from Incomplete? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/306692
[07:55] <jarlath> The effect of this bug is a serious problem for me that effects all the users in our business and I'm sure is a problem for others who rely on Evolution for calendaring also.
[07:57] <Hobbsee> jarlath: that looks like enough to me.
[07:57]  * Hobbsee bumps it back to new
[08:12] <jarlath> Thanks Hobbsee! :)
[08:12] <Hobbsee> :)
[13:45] <fritz> hi, i'm trying to figure out if and how i should file a bug report with regards to hdaps not working on a particular thinkpad. Should this be filed directly with the kernel bug list?
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I added a page to /Bugs/Upstream for Xfce Bugzilla this morning. I will be adding AbiWord in a few days.
[19:13] <frist44> I signed up for the bugsquad on launchpad and just wondering how to get start
[19:13] <frist44> ed
[19:14] <jmarsden> frist44: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/GettingInvolved
[19:15] <jmarsden> frist44: also /join #ubuntu-bugs
[19:15] <frist44> the mailing list?
[19:17] <jmarsden> My bad...  Now I am confused because in the changelog there is no <version>-ubuntu1. the last versions are just  8.10.2, 8.10.1, 8.09.2, 8.09.1, etc. So what version shall I give the fixed package?
[20:26] <hggdh> MrKanister, what version did you base the diff on?
[20:27] <MrKanister> on the latest in Jaunty (8.10.2)
[20:27] <hggdh> then base it on 8.10.2. It should be OK
[20:28] <MrKanister> so I just add a 0-ubuntu1 ? (as dch -i suggests)
[20:29] <MrKanister> i mean -0ubuntu1
[20:29] <hggdh> yes, for example. Did you propose the patch upstream?
[20:29] <MrKanister> not yet
[20:30] <hggdh> huh, my bad, ubuntu-docs is ours...
[20:30] <MrKanister> thats the problem :)
[20:31] <hggdh> then you can just send in the diff; the maintainer can then decide on which version it will build (it will probably be 8.10.3, or something like it)
[20:32] <hggdh> 0ubuntu1 (and similar is for our changes to upstream
[20:33] <MrKanister> hggdh: Thanks. A diff was already there (bug #285484). I thought making a debdiff could help having less work, but seems I should take another bug
[20:35] <hggdh> is your diff about the same issue?
[20:36] <MrKanister> Yes. I was looking for some low hanging fruit. And fixing typos in packages seemed a good start.
[20:37] <MrKanister> I made a small debdiff for another package and it got uploaded to jaunty within hours :)
[20:39] <hggdh> then you have two options: (1) if you are changing part of the other diff, then add an updated diff to the bug; (2) if you are dealing with a different aspect, add a new diff
[20:42] <MrKanister> I didn't want to change something because the patch works fine. I just wanted to make a debdiff that can directly be applied to the latest package and probably uploaded to Jaunty. The problem is the versioning
[20:43] <hggdh> ah, OK
[20:43] <hggdh> you can then make it for 8.10.3, and propose
[20:44] <MrKanister> Ok, thanks a lot. That was what I needed :)
[21:57] <Lupine> This should be a WishList: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/313173
[22:00] <crimsun> Lupine: done
[22:08] <Lupine> anybody have a default/stock response (or common practice) of asking a bug reporter to update to latest stable Ubuntu and try the issue again?
[22:09] <Lupine> or is the practice discouraged, and we should really try to duplicate their issue on let's say a VirtualBox install of older Ubuntu versions?
[22:10] <hggdh> Lupine, if the issue was on a quite old release, then yes, we might ask to try on an up-to-date
[22:10] <hggdh> use, for example, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Old%20untouched%20bugs
[22:11] <Lupine> even if it's not "that" old...8.04 for example?
[22:11] <hggdh> hum. Can you reproduce it?
[22:11] <Lupine> nope
[22:12] <Lupine> and that link of responses is GREAT btw, thanks!  I've been looking for something just like this
[22:12] <hggdh> what is the bug?
[22:12] <Lupine> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/312931
[22:23] <crimsun> Lupine: i normally ask them to reproduce on a live cd of jaunty
[22:23] <hggdh> hum. Opened it, and got mesself a sigsegv...
[22:24] <Lupine> crimsun, thx I'll make a note of that, and keep that in mind
[22:24] <hggdh> and it would be good to have a stacktrace also
[22:24] <Lupine> hggdh, that's weird, and you are running 8.10?
[22:26] <hggdh> I am running Jaunty
[22:26] <hggdh> but I do not know what caused the segv, I just opened it and went to arrière-plan
[22:27] <hggdh> darn! apport is broken!
[22:29] <hggdh> OK, I am retracing it locally.
[22:30] <Lupine> what exactly is the PNG -> JPG file he/you are using that causes it to crash?
[22:30] <Lupine> guess that's why I can't dup it
[22:31] <hggdh> heh... none at all...  literally
[22:31] <Lupine> so weird
[22:31] <hggdh> I had the 3 that come standard
[22:32] <Lupine> thx for the link though, will help out for future bugs
[22:32] <hggdh> OK. the one I was using was a single-colour black
[22:33] <hggdh> but it is shown as "no image" (aucune papier peint)
[22:54] <hggdh> Lupine, I tried with a bad jpeg, and did not get an error
[22:55] <Lupine> sounds like I should just ask the reporter to try and dup it with an up to date LIVE CD
[23:16] <xubuntusdi> hi