[13:41] <Laney> please could someone reject the old appstream in xenial-proposed unapproved?
[14:00] <apw> Laney, done
[14:00] <Laney> such power
[14:09] <yofel> out of curiosity: would anyone in here recommend me to apply for core-dev? Because otherwise I'll apply for MOTU first. (The only argument I would have for core-dev would be that I want to be on the release team eventually. While motu would at least allow me to continue working on kubuntu)
[17:32] <slangasek> infinity: ^^ there, now plymouth is off my list
[17:33] <infinity> slangasek: Ta.
[17:49] <infinity> slangasek: Can I trade you for a review of mplayer in the xenial queue (landing now)?
[17:51] <infinity> slangasek: ^-- Already tested to DTRT locally, and uploaded a matching fix to yakkety.
[17:52] <infinity> (Noticed in yakkety when I realized apt-get autoremove wasn't autoremoving libav* crap on the SOVER bump...)
[17:55] <cyphermox> grub2> grub2-signed is already uploaded and depwait on this grub2 update.
[17:55] <infinity> cyphermox: Accepted.
[17:57] <cyphermox> ta
[23:35] <bdmurray> Does the dist upgrader tarball get put in just yakkety or yakkety and yakkety-updates?
[23:38] <cjwatson> it's like any upload really, it ends up in yakkety if uploaded pre-release or yakkety-updates if uploaded post-release
[23:39] <cjwatson> so in general the release upgrader needs to look for it in both
[23:53] <phillw> bdmurray: permission to PM?


[21:34] <pleia2> DVDs are in :)
[22:26] <bkerensa> pleia2: yours arrived already? :)
[23:33] <nhaines> Ooh, in case nobody knows yet: http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
[23:33] <darthrobot`> Title: [Valve Linux Beta Survey]


[01:12] <kaendfinger> :) I have Ubuntu Touch installed
[01:12] <kaendfinger> I think lol
[01:12] <kaendfinger> The only problem is it is stuck at the "Google (Unlocked)" thing
[01:12] <kaendfinger> I was able to adb shell into it
[01:12] <kaendfinger> Busybox
[01:13] <kaendfinger> I assume its not actually booting into Touch yet?
[02:46] <FFForever> Hey hey. Has anyone successfully gotten ubuntu touch to work on the sgs4?
[05:27] <pitti> thomi, barry: I did seed one autopilot PPA, but not the experimental one
[06:19] <Guest57686> ive tried automatically installing ubuntu touch to mako now, and manually, but they both get stuck on boot at the google logo
[06:29] <Guest57686> can you use the volume rocker to wake the screen in touch?
[06:30] <RAOF> Guest57686: Empirically, no.
[06:34] <Guest57686> Thanks RAOF . thats going to be a problem then because i dont have a power button
[07:36] <AskUbuntu> Installing PPA:phablet | http://askubuntu.com/q/367714
[08:17] <mau> hi every body
[08:18] <mau> can anyone give me an idea where i can get and buy ubuntu phone?
[08:28] <dddddddddddddddd> http://www.n4checker.com/ Australia: IN STOCK!
[08:40] <pitti> anyone with a maguro here? Can you please send me the output of "uname -r"? (I'd like to verify it actually ends with "-maguro")
[08:44] <ogra_> pitti, root@ubuntu-phablet:/# uname -r
[08:44] <ogra_> 3.0.0-3-maguro
[08:46] <pitti> ogra_: danke
[08:47] <kapiteined> hi all, will the nexus 5 be supported by ubuntu?
[09:49] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Internet Day! :-D
[10:15] <mardy> cjwatson: FYI: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1245826
[10:16] <blaze> hello
[10:26] <NeO_Sk8eR> hey all, i'm having some trouble building utouch for HTC One, anyone free to give me hand?
[10:29] <NeO_Sk8eR> gettint stuck here make: *** No rule to make target `/home/namir/Desktop/htcone/out/target/product/m7ul/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libaudioamp_intermediates/export_includes', needed by `/home/namir/Desktop/htcone/out/target/product/m7ul/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/audio.primary.msm8960_intermediates/import_includes'.  Stop
[10:30] <NeO_Sk8eR> if i create that folder, it fails with same error, same folder but libaudioamp.so
[11:09] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:29] <otaku> may i ask a question? is 12.10 support the ubuntu phone OS install?
[12:30] <nerochiaro> zsombi: is it by design/normal that when we have anchorToKeyboard: true and the keyboard is showing, people can still pull up the toolbar from just above the keyboard ? it really looks and feels weird
[12:43] <nerochiaro> zsombi: also i see that the Page has an header property but it's deprecated. what's the right way to access the header now ? (to know its height and if it's currently visible etc)
[12:44] <zsombi> t1mp: ^
[12:45] <zsombi> nerochiaro: anchorToKeyboard is where?
[12:45] <nerochiaro> zsombi: mainview
[12:46] <zsombi> nerochiaro: ah, that one :)... well, that's more for the design, I'd say. it's weird to me, but if they want it like that...
[12:48] <nerochiaro> zsombi: ok, if you're sure design is fine with it then i'm ok too
[12:49] <crocket> hi
[12:49] <crocket> What will be the display server/compositor of ubuntu touch on phones and tablets?
[12:49] <crocket> X, wayland, or something else?
[12:51] <nerochiaro> zsombi: also any news on all these weird textChanged events ?
[12:52] <zsombi> nerochiaro: not there yet, I've been busy with some minor IMA fixes
[12:52] <nerochiaro> zsombi: i think i found a case when it's happeneing even wihtout the OSK visible
[12:52] <zsombi> nerochiaro: the onTextChanged?
[12:52] <nerochiaro> zsombi: i'll try to make a minimal test case and attach it to the bug
[12:53] <nerochiaro> zsombi: yes
[12:53] <ogra_> crocket, it is Mir (since a while already)
[13:00] <t1mp> nerochiaro: the idea is that you don't need to know whether the header is visible. its all automatic
[13:02] <nerochiaro> t1mp: but what if i do need to know ? in my case the header sometimes pop up on top of a list item that's being edited
[13:04] <t1mp> nerochiaro: well there is the __propagated.header property that has the header
[13:04] <t1mp> (propagated because it is propagated to the pages from the mainview)
[13:05] <nerochiaro> t1mp: hmm, ok, ugly but i guess that's what i need to use. i'll try to avoid it
[13:05] <t1mp> nerochiaro: yeah I propose you use that now.
[13:05] <nerochiaro> t1mp: ok, thanks
[13:06] <t1mp> nerochiaro: perhaps when you have the stuff working and you know what you need exactly from the header (+use cases) you can report a bug with a feature request
[13:07] <t1mp> nerochiaro: if you are trying to work around this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1202277 then don't worry about it, I am working on it
[13:11] <crocket> Mir
[13:11] <crocket> I think Mark Shutterworth is making a mistake.
[13:23] <nerochiaro> t1mp: no, it's not that bug. but thanks for the heads up
[13:26] <ogra_> mzanetti, fyi, tagesschau.de app is in the store
[13:27] <ogra_> (still ~10 more news apps to come, i have a scritp now)
[13:28] <mzanetti> ogra_: nice :)
[13:28] <mzanetti> ogra_: any success regarding the scrolling issue?
[13:29] <ogra_> mzanetti, nope, and the qml wrapper doesnt work
[13:29] <pandinus> hello to all
[13:29] <mzanetti> ogra_: do you have some example that shows the issue?
[13:29] <ogra_> (well, it works, but you cant have a back button or any other nav objects and there is no way to tell it to open external links in the browser)
[13:29] <mzanetti> ogra_: I could add that for you if you want
[13:29] <pandinus> i got a question regarding installing ubuntu touch on my nexus 4
[13:30] <ogra_> mzanetti, hmm
[13:30] <ogra_> mzanetti, i'm basing off darkers howto from http://daker.me/2013/10/package-your-webapp-for-ubuntu-touch.html
[13:31] <ogra_> (and the scrolling is exactly the same as in the browser with that)
[13:31] <mzanetti> ogra_: ok, perfect. I'll give it a shot later on and paste you over some code for the toolbar and the browser launching
[13:31] <ogra_> cool !
[14:38] <ogra_> davmor2, already tried r8 on maguro ?
[14:39] <davmor2> ogra_: r8 why's my image still on 5 then
[14:39]  * ogra_ has the feeling it is more responsive, but i'm not usre thats just wishful thinking
[14:40] <ogra_> davmor2, oh, you are not on proposed i guess
[14:40] <davmor2> ogra_: I used system-inmage-cli to up dat I've had one ota from 4 to 5 and no more
[14:41] <ogra_> yeah, i didnt publish anything after 5 yet
[14:41] <ogra_> if 8 is good on the dashboard i'll push that one out
[14:42] <pitti> so, my dear friends
[14:42] <davmor2> ogra_: is phablet flash working now or do I still need to use system-image-cli
[14:42] <ogra_> for what ?
[14:42] <pitti> I wasted two days trying to understand adn reproduce our CI infrastructure and fix my tests only to find out that nothing is broken in them -- it's the unity-next PPA which breaks messaging-app
[14:42] <ogra_> you should use phablet-flash only for the initial flashing
[14:42] <davmor2> ogra_: to get to 8 without wiping all my data
[14:42] <popey> OTA update
[14:43] <pitti> boiko, awe_: ^
[14:43] <ogra_> you would need to switch channels to get r8
[14:43] <popey> you should be on trusty-proposed surely?
[14:43] <davmor2> popey: there is none past OTA
[14:43] <popey> depends on your channel
[14:43] <pitti> boiko: so I think https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/messaging-app/phonesim-tests/+merge/191121 is ready for landing
[14:43] <pitti> boiko: if for nothing else, then for holding back whatever breaks messaging-app in the unity-daily PPA (which hasn't landed in trusty yet)
[14:43] <awe_> pitti, ?
[14:44] <pitti> awe_: hey, how are you? made it safely to Oakland?
[14:44] <davmor2> ogra_: right so can I use system-image-cli to do that or is phablet-flash fixed so it doesn't wipe data now?
[14:44] <awe_> pitti, I'm good
[14:44] <awe_> ! in oakland
[14:44] <ogra_> davmor2, i dont think it is ...
[14:44] <ogra_> davmor2,  system-image-cli --channel trusty-proposed -b 0
[14:45] <pitti> awe_: who is the main reviewer for messaging-app, is that boiko too?
[14:45] <ogra_> and respectively with --channel trusty -b 0 if you want to go back
[14:45] <awe_> yes, I don't even know how to spell QML
[14:45] <awe_> ;D
[14:46] <pitti> awe_: no, my point was, it took me so long to land these effing tests because they keep proving crashes in mir and unity, and regressions in the unity-next PPA
[14:46] <kirkland> popey: ogra_: thanks guys, your instructions worked, I'm upgraded ;-)
[14:46] <awe_> ah, that sucks
[14:46] <pitti> awe_: whereas, we would have found out about these regresiosn/crashes and wouldnt't have gotten them in the first place if we had had the tests in trunk months ago :)
[14:46] <kirkland> popey: ogra_: now, I incorrectly entered my wifi password, and I can't figure out how to delete/edit/update it
[14:46] <ogra_> kirkland, yay
[14:47] <awe_> pitti, ack
[14:47] <awe_> kirkland, ;)
[14:47] <awe_> kirkland, delete the NM connection file
[14:47] <ogra_> kirkland, hmm, it should just ask again on the next connection attempt
[14:47] <davmor2> ogra_: running now
[14:47] <pitti> awe_: but anyway, PS jenkins rejects them on amd64, but I still think we should land them now due to that (as they work fine in trusty, it's teh PPA which breaks them)
[14:47] <awe_> it's in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
[14:47] <awe_> no UI to do that yet
[14:48] <ogra_> awe_, shouldnt you just get a new snap decision to  enter it again if you try to connect and it is wrong ?
[14:48] <awe_> it's *supposed* to be fixed for 14.04, but currently no UI to edit NM connections on touch
[14:48]  * ogra_ saw that before here
[14:48] <awe_> ogra_, yea...sure
[14:48] <kirkland> awe_: howdy!
[14:48] <awe_> first of all, for older WEP APs the only way to tell that the pw is bad, is you never get an IP address from DHCP
[14:49] <awe_> ogra_, it's basically a timeout style operation
[14:49] <ogra_> ah
[14:49] <ogra_> i have WPA2 here
[14:58] <sil2100> charles: ping!
[15:25] <daker> hi ogra_ question, does games coded with unity3d work on the phone ?
[15:26] <ogra_> daker, i think you need to ship everything yoou need for this in the click ... but beyond that i dont see why not
[15:26] <ogra_> pure GLES stuff should just work
[15:26] <sergiusens> ogra_, my mind is blank, what was the android-chroot command again? or is it gone?
[15:27] <ogra_> gone :)
[15:27] <sergiusens> ogra_, reason?
[15:27] <ogra_> people mistook it for a real chroot all the time
[15:27] <ogra_> which it isnt
[15:27] <ogra_> you are not actually inside the container ... it just chroots into the fs
[15:28] <ogra_> sergiusens, the proper fix would be to have lxc-console work, but i think stgraber said that wont be possible for us
[15:29] <ogra_> since we dont actually have a real console in android
[15:29] <sergiusens> ogra_, hmm, too bad, it worked well enough for me; was that in lxc-android-config?
[15:29] <ogra_> (which this command wants to connect to))
[15:29] <ogra_> yeah
[15:29] <ogra_> just grab it out of the tree from a former revision
[15:29] <sergiusens> ogra_, yup, that's why I asked :-)
[15:30] <ogra_> i didnt see a way how to actually make it enter the init session, else i would have kept it around ... with the potential to be fixed at some poiunt
[15:41] <stgraber> ogra_: well, you could use one of my patched kernels and use lxc-attach
[15:41] <stgraber> a bit outdated though: https://github.com/stgraber/linux/tree/mako-lxc
[15:41] <ogra_> stgraber, why cant we ship that patch (at least until FF) in our kernels ?
[15:42] <stgraber> I have mako and manta patched that way, grouper and maguro were too old to get a clean cherry-pick
[15:42] <ogra_> ah
[15:42] <stgraber> ogra_: it's a rather big patchset even for mako and manta: https://github.com/stgraber/linux/commits/mako-lxc :)
[15:42] <ogra_> oh, ok
[15:48] <boiko> pitti: for messaging and dialer apps, it is usually me and salem_ reviewing MRs
[15:49] <pitti> boiko: ack; tiago pinged me about it, seems he has a handle on that one
[15:49] <pitti> boiko: but I'll have to re-do that exercise again for the pending https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/dialer-app/enable-phonesim-tests/+merge/191248, so for load balancing I might ping you next time :)
[15:50] <boiko> pitti: yep, that's fine
[16:00] <charles> sil2100: pong!
[16:04] <ogra_> seb128, Laney, system-settings is very crashy for me with the latest image, i found http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/_usr_bin_system-settings.32011.crash in /var/crash ...
[16:04] <seb128> ogra_, hey
[16:05] <seb128> ogra_, nothing changed in system-settings since saucy, got to be a bug in some other parts of the stack
[16:05] <ogra_> hey, enjoying the sprint ?
[16:05] <seb128> yes! ;-)
[16:05] <ogra_> seb128, yeah, other apps semm impacted too, but thats the only crash file i have :)
[16:05] <sil2100> charles: hi! I wanted to know something related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1233176
[16:06] <sil2100> charles: is this fixed? How is it supposed to work now?
[16:09] <kenvandine> i wonder if that crash is related to any qt libs updated without rebuilds
[16:09] <kenvandine> has any of the qt libs been updated in trusty?
[16:09] <seb128> kenvandine, That's Madness!
[16:09] <ogra_> kenvandine, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131029.changes and http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131029.1.changes
[16:10] <ogra_> the image before was fine
[16:10] <seb128> ogra_, people is not responding, can't look at those
[16:10] <seb128> oh, now it does
[16:18] <kenvandine> ogra_, image 8?
[16:18] <kenvandine> ogra_, i just updated, not crashing for me
[16:19] <ogra_> kenvandine, mako or maguro ?
[16:19] <kenvandine> mako
[16:19] <seb128> ogra_, how do you reproduce the issue? is that happening on start?
[16:19] <ogra_> kenvandine, if i tap around a bit it eventually just vanishes off the screen here
[16:19] <kenvandine> ok... /me taps
[16:19] <ogra_> going here and there
[16:20] <seb128> it got to be a mir issue
[16:20] <seb128> kgunn, ^
[16:20] <ogra_> i had a few occurences where going to the battery panel was a pretty reliable crasher
[16:20] <ogra_> but later it didnt crash there anymore
[16:21] <ogra_> though it looks definitely like a more general issue ... i even manage to get the browser to crash here
[16:21] <kgunn> kdub: ^ can you try ?
[16:22] <kenvandine> ogra_, finally crashed..
[16:22] <charles> sil2100: looks like it should be in 13.10 now, it landed in indicator-datetime/13.10 in r277 and 13.10.0+13.10.20131023.2-0ubuntu1 was r280
[16:22] <kenvandine> took lots of clicking around
[16:22] <kgunn> ogra_: so you are reporting the crash ?
[16:22] <ogra_> kenvandine, strat it again, it gets more unsteable with each new start i think
[16:22] <kenvandine> interesting
[16:22] <ogra_> kgunn, well, i'm not sure against what :)
[16:22] <ogra_> kgunn, apps crash randomly
[16:23] <kdub> kgunn,  try what?
[16:23] <charles> sil2100: so, when an appointment is reached, there will be a snap decision that pops up, with two options, Dismiss and Show
[16:23] <kgunn> kdub: try image8 on mako
[16:23] <kenvandine> not starting now... well i get the famous white screen
[16:23] <kenvandine> could just be apport pegging my system slowing it down though
[16:23] <ogra_> kenvandine, yeah, popey  seems to get that for music app on his install
[16:23] <charles> sil2100: and if Show is chosen, the first alarm url associated with that appointment is launched
[16:23] <kenvandine> load over 9
[16:23] <ogra_> wow
[16:24] <ogra_> get gloves !
[16:24] <kdub> kgunn, i'll try... will take some time to save my work there and reflash though, stay tuned
[16:24] <kgunn> kdub: ogra_ is thinking he sees "new" crashing....but not sure exactly what
[16:24] <kdub> kgunn, why do we think mir? :)
[16:25] <kgunn> kdub:  :)  ....you know how it goes
[16:25] <kenvandine> well mir just landed
[16:25] <seb128> kdub, kgunn: because that's basically the only thing that changed on images this week
[16:25] <seb128> and the bug happen after some screen tapping
[16:25] <ogra_> kgunn, kdub http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131029.changes and http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131029.1.changes
[16:25] <ogra_> thats the set of changed packages
[16:25] <kgunn> kdub: seb128 ...sorry gotta pay attention to other things right now
[16:25] <ogra_> between the last working and the non working image
[16:26] <kenvandine> ogra_, you are right... it is easier to crash a second time
[16:26] <kenvandine> weird how it was more stable until the first crash
[16:26] <ogra_> yep
[16:26] <kenvandine> makes it feel less like it's the app
[16:26] <ogra_> yeah, which cant really be
[16:28] <sil2100> charles: sorry, got preempted to something else, ok so it's when you set-up an Alarm?
[16:28] <kenvandine> ogra_, yup... clicking around in dialer-app made it crash too
[16:28] <ogra_> right
[16:28] <kenvandine> so it seems like all apps
[16:28] <sil2100> charles: since I was using trunk on my device, set-up an alarm, waited until the time comes and nothing happened
[16:28] <ogra_> yeah
[16:30] <charles> sil2100: let me do some testing with it today and see what results I get. It was working for me right before the release, but it was very last-minute code
[16:30] <charles> sil2100: by virtue of its timing, I'd hold it with more suspicion than usual
[16:32] <kenvandine> ogra_, so dialer-app didn't really crash... it  isn't showing as running in the shell but the process is still running (since unity-mir) doesn't kill/suspend it
[16:32] <Saviq> seb128, where does settings app change the locale in?
[16:32] <kenvandine> but dialer-app is using 99% cpu
[16:32] <kenvandine> and i can't launch it again
[16:33] <ogra_> kenvandine, hmm, unity perhaps then
[16:33] <kenvandine> kgunn, ^^
[16:33] <seb128> Saviq, ~/.pam_environment
[16:33] <seb128> Saviq, why?
[16:33] <kenvandine> ogra_, i think the exception to keep it running is in unity-mir
[16:33] <Saviq> seb128, I need to put pl_PL in there ;)
[16:33] <ogra_> ah
[16:33] <seb128> Saviq, well, if it's not listed it's because it's not possible
[16:33] <Saviq> seb128, I know, I'll manage ;)
[16:33] <kenvandine> QProcess: Destroyed while process ("echo") is still running.
[16:34] <seb128> Saviq, locale -a to see the available locale, without the language-pack-base-pl you can't use that locale
[16:34] <kenvandine> in the upstart log for dialer-app
[16:34] <ogra_> ricmm, ^^^
[16:34] <Saviq> seb128, I know, have installed already
[16:34] <seb128> Saviq, well, the right solution is to go in write mode and install the langpack, that should make it be listed in the UI as well
[16:34] <seb128> and it's not listed in system settings?
[16:34] <seb128> weird
[16:34] <Saviq> seb128, ah, didn't check
[16:34] <Saviq> seb128, it did!
[16:34] <Saviq> seb128, didn't know it's dynamic, thanks!
[16:34] <seb128> Saviq, yw
[16:35] <ogra_> ricmm, could you take a look at image #8 ? apps randomly crash with that ... seems kenvandine can trace it down to unity-mir
[16:35]  * Saviq needs to do a lot of translations
[16:35] <seb128> Saviq, yeah it's dynamic, attente did a good job there ;-)
[16:40] <seb128> ogra_, kdub, kgunn, kenvandine: got a stracktrace for the .crash: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6324911/
[16:40] <seb128> looks like mir issues
[16:40] <seb128> or boost...
[16:42] <melvster> how hard is it to run desktop apps on an ubuntu touch ... let's say I have a long term goal to run a browser like opera ... how feasible would that be?
[16:43] <kdub> seb128, thanks
[16:46] <kdub> seb128, can we file a mir bug about it? seems mir-related enough
[16:46] <seb128> kdub, sure
[16:52] <ricmm> ogra_: sure they are crashing? might be oom
[16:52] <ricmm> I heard they only crash when out of view
[16:52] <ogra_> ricmm, oh ? did that change ?
[16:52] <kenvandine> seb128, kdub, ogra_: bug 1245958
[16:52] <ricmm> might be a misinterpretation of oom actually making the kill
[16:52] <ogra_> ricmm, no, they vanish underneath my fingers
[16:52] <ricmm> oh
[16:53] <ricmm> then thats a bug :)
[16:53] <ricmm> might be related to a change that landed in Mir
[16:53] <ricmm> about client buffer swapping
[16:53] <ogra_> yeah, see what kenvandine posted
[16:53] <ricmm> considering the shell doesnt seem to be affected
[16:53] <kenvandine> ricmm, and with dialer-app, it disappears but the process never dies
[16:53] <ricmm> I will put my first-take blame on that
[16:53] <kenvandine> but it pegs the cpu
[16:53] <ricmm> sounds like mir
[16:53] <kenvandine> yup
[16:53] <kenvandine> i filed it against unity-mir, please change that as needed
[16:53] <ricmm> I dont know the exact commit but my recommendation is to ping duflu
[16:54] <ricmm> and check ifhe can confirm that
[16:54] <ricmm> perhaps try with a rollback of it, unity-mir and platform-api havent changed so you could rollback and give it a shot
[16:54] <ricmm> the bumps there are to match the mir abi bumps
[16:55] <kdub> alan_g, alf_ http://paste.ubuntu.com/6324911/
[16:55] <davmor2> ogra_: so image 8 is smoother
[16:55] <ogra_> but totally broken
[16:56] <ogra_> see above
[16:56] <alan_g> kdub: context?
[16:56] <kdub> alan_g, applications are aborting on image8, thought you might know what may have changed in the client rpc code
[16:57] <davmor2> ogra_: shuggin fashin shuggin fashin dick dastardly
[16:59] <alan_g> kdub: that looks a bit strange - MirSurface::next_buffer() is not being called from the Mir API - I'll have to dig into the code...
[17:00] <kdub> yeah, i haven't seen it yet, will try to pin the scenario down
[17:00] <kdub> unless someone here already knows the scenario that makes it happen reliably
[17:01] <ogra_> use the system-settings, tap around in it for a while, see it vanish
[17:01] <ogra_> it isnt reliably reproducable ... seems ot happen to every app after a while
[17:02] <alan_g> kdub: Hmm ClientSurfaceInterpreter::driver_returns_buffer() has a call to surface.next_buffer() - I guess this is another thread where someone forgot about handling exceptions.
[17:03] <alan_g> It's a bit late in today for me to dig into now. But if you can get a complete stack trace I'll investigate in the morning.
[17:03] <kdub> alan_g, sure
[17:13] <alan_g> kdub: Maybe this is the problem alf just noticed/fixed - https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/mir/remove-client-rpc-timeout/+merge/193094
[17:16] <kdub> alan_g, maybe...
[17:16] <thomi> barry: trusty AP packages should now be avaialble in the ppa:autopilot/experimental PPA.
[17:17] <barry> thomi: fantastic, thanks
[17:20] <thomi> barry: no worries, I think pitti did the actual work :)
[17:20] <thomi> but I'm happy to take the credit :)
[17:20] <barry> thomi: :)  it'll probably be tomorrow before i take a look
[17:27] <robert_ancell> ogra_, what is the magic command to update my phone to trusty?
[17:29] <ogra_> robert_ancell, system-image-cli -c trusty -b 0
[17:29] <ogra_> if you want to see whats going on, add -v
[17:29] <ogra_> (else it has no output at all)
[17:30] <robert_ancell> ogra_, thanks
[17:30] <barry> and --dry-run if you want to see what it'll do
[17:31] <robert_ancell> ah, was trying -u instead of -b here
[17:31] <ogra_> barry, bah, lame avoiding the risk takes out all excitement :P
[17:31] <barry> robert_ancell: yeah, that's a turd (no-op) option.  removed in the next release. ;)
[17:31] <barry> ogra_: :)
[17:39] <robert_ancell> ogra_, FileNotFoundError: http://system-image.ubuntu.com/pool/ubuntu-a542f511e5de48d2172a80244671b15a76a085eb6d69f16a473c514a9a4c524f.tar.xz:NETWORK ERROR
[17:39] <ogra_> woah
[17:40] <robert_ancell> ogra_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6325242/
[17:40] <ogra_> robert_ancell, sounds like some proxy messup ... i can wget the file here
[17:40] <robert_ancell> ok
[17:41] <ogra_> barry, ^^^
[17:41] <stgraber> blame IS (assuming you are at the sprint) :)
[17:41] <ogra_> or am i wrong ?
[17:41] <robert_ancell> I can wget from my laptop, but not from the phone
[17:41] <barry> that's an error coming from the ubuntu-download-manager
[17:42] <robert_ancell> actually, I can also manually wget from my phone too
[17:42] <robert_ancell> I am at the sprint
[17:43] <ogra_> fun
[17:43] <ogra_> isnt kirkland there too ?
[17:43] <robert_ancell> I think so
[17:43] <barry> i think u-d-m logs to syslog.  you should check to see if anything shows up there
[17:43] <ogra_> i know he did the exact same procedure yesterday
[17:43] <ogra_> ask him what network he was on then :)
[17:43] <barry> and maybe ping mandel if he's around
[17:43] <kirkland> ogra_: i'm at home, waiting on a baby :)
[17:43] <ogra_> oh
[17:44] <ogra_> 'mericans reproduce often... 'mericans reproduce fast :)
[17:44] <ogra_> *g*
[17:44] <kenvandine> haha
[17:44] <ogra_> congrats too :)
[17:44] <kirkland> ogra_: thanks!
[17:45] <robert_ancell> I might just phablet-flash if no-one wan't to debug this - what's the command for that to get trusty?
[17:45] <ogra_> note that will wipe your data
[17:45] <robert_ancell> that's fine
[17:45] <ogra_> phablet-flash ubuntu-system -c trusty
[17:45] <robert_ancell> ta
[17:46] <ogra_> (or --channel trusty if you like long options)
[17:46] <robert_ancell> -c is not in my version
[17:46] <robert_ancell> but --channel is
[17:47] <sergiusens> robert_ancell, add a --boostrap to that
[17:47] <robert_ancell> ok
[17:47] <sergiusens> robert_ancell, ogra_ if you want to keep data bzr branch lp:phablet-tools and do it from there
[17:47] <sergiusens> without the --bootstrap of course
[17:48] <ogra_> yeah
[17:49] <ogra_> i would have pointed robert_ancell to you as a potential test victim ... but he didnt want to keep his data
[17:57] <seb128> mardy, still around?
[18:00] <AskUbuntu> Is there any way to run Ubuntu Touch 1.0 in VirtualBox? | http://askubuntu.com/q/368014
[18:12] <AskUbuntu> clock disappeared on Ubuntu Touch | http://askubuntu.com/q/368017
[18:13] <Vyom> hmm
[18:14] <Vyom> Does Alex gets the point of "its extremely buggy"
[18:16] <davmor2> ogra_: does that mean we can expect another version today?
[18:18] <ogra_> davmor2, not really ... we'll have to wait until there is a fix or someone rolled back the breakage
[18:18] <davmor2> ogra_: fair enough :)
[18:19] <Laney> cjwatson: For getting the desktop file from the click manifest, is it always going to be "hooks" → title → "desktop"?
[18:21] <balloons> iBelieve, ping
[18:21] <iBelieve> balloons, pong
[18:22] <balloons> iBelieve, so I'm working on fixing the filemanager ap tests
[18:22] <balloons> it seems there is indeed a bug in phone mode
[18:22] <balloons> cut/copy doesn't work for files or folders
[18:22] <iBelieve> balloons, that's strange
[18:23] <balloons> on my trusty phone the option doesn't exist. trying it manually, no go
[18:23] <iBelieve> balloons, the paste option should show up when a file is on the clipboard. If it doesn't, something isn't working with the clipboard
[18:24] <iBelieve> balloons, unfortunately I don't have a device to try fiddling around with it.
[18:24] <balloons> iBelieve, I was just looking in FolderListpage.qml
[18:25] <balloons> is that the place to look? ;-)
[18:25] <balloons> basically as you say if there is something there it the option should exist
[18:25] <iBelieve> balloons, yes, that is the place to look. The paste option should show up if pageModel.clipboardUrlsCounter > 0
[18:26] <balloons> can we debug it somehow?
[18:26] <iBelieve> balloons, lines 229-245
[18:26] <balloons> I do have a phone in front of me ;-)
[18:26] <balloons> how about the placing on the clipboard piece?
[18:27] <iBelieve> balloons, FolderListView.qml, lines 100 - 121
[18:27] <balloons> looks like folderlistview has that.. so I'll check the log to see if it gets there
[18:29] <iBelieve> balloons, btw, it works on the desktop, so it is something wrong on the phone
[18:29] <cjwatson> Laney: believe so
[18:29] <cjwatson> Laney: well, there's been some discussion of "hooks" -> "applications" or some such but assume yes for now
[18:30] <Laney> cjwatson: mmkay
[18:32] <iBelieve> balloons, I'm back again. My battery died :(
[18:32] <balloons> iBelieve,
[18:35] <iBelieve> balloons, ?
[18:36] <balloons> iBelieve, sorry just trying to figure out how to debug this
[18:36] <iBelieve> balloons, can you run it from the terminal?
[18:39] <balloons> yes i think so
[18:39] <balloons> I just don't see
[18:40] <balloons> found it ;-)
[18:45] <balloons> sergiusens, what's the best way to run a phone app from the terminal?
[18:46] <balloons> I thought just running it with qmlscene would fly, but it doesn't :-)
[18:49] <sergiusens> balloons, it's a compiled application
[18:49] <balloons> sergiusens, no, not compiled.. pure qml.
[18:49] <sergiusens> balloons, since when?
[18:50] <balloons> sergiusens, lol sorry.. I'm trying to run filemanager, not the dialer or phone app
[18:50] <sergiusens> balloons, oh
[18:51] <sergiusens> balloons, start application APP_ID=com.ubuntu.filemanager_filemanager_${version}
[18:51] <balloons> sergiusens, :-) I knew there was a launcher, I simply couldn't remember, ty
[18:51] <sergiusens> balloons, np
[18:53] <balloons> hmm
[18:53] <balloons> sergiusens, it doesn't seem to like "start application"
[18:53] <sergiusens> balloons, did you fill in the version?
[18:54] <sergiusens> balloons, check ~/.cache/upstart/application-click-com.ubuntu.filemanager_filemanager_$version.log
[18:55] <sergiusens> balloons, also if you reinstalled a click with a newer version you might need to rerun the apparmor hooks
[18:55] <balloons> I'm trying to run the preinstalled version
[18:55] <balloons> click doesn't seem to get it though.. it's weird
[18:56] <balloons> but I'm getting start: Unknown job: application
[18:56] <sergiusens> balloons, are you root and not phablet?
[18:56] <balloons> i am indeed root
[18:56] <sergiusens> balloons, application is a user session job :-)
[18:57] <balloons> yes I figured as much
[18:57] <balloons> let me look
[18:58] <balloons> init-ctl list shows me no such thing
[18:59] <balloons> initctl list-sessions has 1 upstart session running
[19:03] <balloons> sergiusens, ^^ thoughts? I'm running trusty build 5
[19:04] <cyphermox> bfiller: hey. with the fixes for address-book-app, it's worse.
[19:04] <sergiusens> balloons, I'm not following
[19:04] <bfiller> cyphermox: really?
[19:04] <cyphermox> bfiller: when I click a contact for the first time, now that's the only one that ever appears :)
[19:04] <bfiller> cyphermox: renato_ can you help with cyphermox issue. I tested it and it works for me
[19:04] <balloons> sergiusens, I believe application should show in the upstart job list right? I don't see it. start application is not a known job
[19:04] <cyphermox> I checked that I'm running the latest address-book-app, not sure if there are other pieces I should update too
[19:04] <cyphermox> renato_: ^
[19:05] <sergiusens> balloons, ah; how are you logging in to phablet
[19:05] <sergiusens> ?
[19:05] <balloons> I'm trying from the terminal app, and via adb shell
[19:05] <balloons> do I need to ssh in ?
[19:07] <balloons> sergiusens, 66
[19:07] <balloons> ^^
[19:07] <sergiusens> balloons, not really, ssh isn't needed
[19:07] <renato_> cyphermox, we have the fix for that
[19:07] <sergiusens> balloons, doing adb shell and then sudo -i -u phablet should be enough
[19:07] <renato_> let me see the status of the MR
[19:08] <balloons> sergiusens, should I get the latest devel image?
[19:08] <sergiusens> balloons, if you don't see any upstart application job no apps should launch
[19:08] <sergiusens> is that the casE?
[19:08] <sergiusens> if not, build #5 is fine
[19:09] <cyphermox> renato_: I know, that's landed... that's what I'm trying to test, but it's not working
[19:09] <renato_> cyphermox, did not land yet
[19:09] <balloons> wild.. as with everything I rebooted and reshelled in
[19:09] <cyphermox> renato_: really?
[19:09] <balloons> I see the application job now
[19:09] <renato_> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/address-book-app/fix-contact-fetch/+merge/192966
[19:09]  * balloons scratches head
[19:09] <cyphermox> err
[19:10] <renato_> jenkins did not approve it
[19:10] <renato_> bfiller, could you approve it again?
[19:10] <cyphermox> ah, I could have sworn it did land... oh well, now at least it's clear
[19:11] <cyphermox> sorry for the noise ;)
[19:17] <Hashcode> ogra_ I've been investigating the differences on the loop mount system method.. seems like there are some cmdline params to set for that?
[19:20] <balloons> iBelieve, ok finally I have something :-)
[19:20] <iBelieve> balloons, great!
[19:20] <balloons> let me share with you via paste, 1 min
[19:23] <balloons> iBelieve, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6325809/. This is me trying to cut and copy a folder into another one
[19:23] <balloons> CliboardUrlsCounter after copy 0
[19:23] <balloons> <-- this is bad
[19:25] <peter-nexus7> hello! is there any way to force/turn on landscape orientation for an app i'm developing on nexus7?
[19:25] <iBelieve> balloons, that is bad. I'll take a look in minute
[19:26] <sergiusens> balloons, might mean your session died
[19:26] <peter-nexus7> it doesn't have to autorotate - just fixed landscape is enough
[19:26] <balloons> yea.. I was playing around for a long time.. it works now though, so ty sergiusens
[19:26] <balloons> peter-nexus7, I'm not sure.. mhall119 ^^
[19:30] <mhall119> peter-nexus7: there is a way to tell the app to auto-rotate, yes, but that may not be working right now on Nexus 7 builds
[19:31] <peter-nexus7> mhall119: I don't care about auto-rotate - fixed landscape is enough
[19:31] <mhall119> peter-nexus7: I don't think there is a way to do that, no, the Nexus 7's default orientation is Portrait
[19:33] <peter-nexus7> even for my own app?
[19:33] <mhall119> peter-nexus7: there might be some way, but the only options I know of are "Stick to the default orientation" and "Automatically change rotation based on the device's orientation"
[19:37] <t1mp> peter-nexus7, mhall119 the feature you ask for is work in progress. Should be there next week. You may want to track https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1239760
[19:37] <peter-nexus7> mhall119 ok - too bad... could you point me to the documentation for auto-rotate that I can start my own investigation from?
[19:42] <peter-nexus7> t1mp: thanks - that's a usefull information. So this bug states it's currently imposible from QML - is it also the case for Qt C++ code?
[19:45] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: it is not impossible from QML, but currently don't have it exposed in an easy way in our UITK (for example in the MainView).
[19:45] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: qml has a Screen variable that you can use for orienting your app.
[19:46] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: we use the Screen in our OrientationHelper (which is used by MainView, currently only enabling/disabling automatic orientation). See http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/trunk/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/OrientationHelper.qml how we use it.
[19:48] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: we like to make it easier if you use our UITK, and for that, the bug is being fixed.
[19:49] <balloons> iBelieve, any thoughts?
[19:49] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: sorry, gotta go now. If you need some help you can ping me  tomorrow, or ask someone else from the UITK team. kalikiana is working on that bug (actually, waiting for my review of his merge request)
[19:50] <mhall119> peter-nexus7: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.MainView/#automaticOrientation-prop
[19:51] <iBelieve> balloons, sorry, forgot about it. I'm wondering if it has something to do with not being able to access the clipboard under confinement. I just read an email on the mailing list about copy/paste not working (I assume that was with text)
[19:51] <peter-nexus7> t1mp just to make sure I understand - if I use this Screen variable than I'll be able to manually rotate screen on Nexus7, right?
[19:52] <balloons> iBelieve, is it an apparmor rule we can add?
[19:52] <iBelieve> balloons, no idea. I know hardly anything about confinement and apparmor.
[19:53] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: yes, that is what I think. But we also manipulate it in the MainView (using OrientationHelper), so if you use the Screen variable AND a MainView, they might conflict. So if weird stuff happens, try it in a separate program without a MainView.
[19:53] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: and I guess when our bug is fixed you can do it in an easier way using the UITK.
[19:55] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: I think ideally we make it so that you set MainView.automaticOrientation to false, and specify the rotation angle to give you landscape mode. But it is not working yet until the bug is fixed.
[19:57] <peter-nexus7> t1mp: thanks - I'll try it out. Good to know it's most probably be possible
[19:58] <t1mp> peter-nexus7: you're welcome.
[19:58]  * t1mp off now.
[20:04] <kalikiana> peter-nexus7: once the bug is fixed you can use OrientationHelper { orientationAngle: 90 } like in the example given in the bug report
[20:05] <kalikiana> the problem is that QML defines "window" whenever it feels it likes to, so the bug is to fix the race condition
[20:08] <jdstrand> balloons, iBelieve: I don't have any context, but if apparmor is blocking something, you will see a denial in /var/log/syslog. eg: grep DEN /var/log/syslog. if you see a denial that shouldn't be there, please file a but against apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu
[20:09] <jdstrand> s/a but/a bug/
[20:09] <balloons> jdstrand, ty for the heads up
[20:09] <joneblade> hello all!
[20:10] <balloons> jdstrand, iBelieve i don't see anything in there.. just tried :-)
[20:11] <joneblade> I have install ubuntu phone os to non-Nexus phone. It's possible?
[20:11] <balloons> iBelieve, I guess we couldn't patch a fix then as a workaround since it's not going to the cluipboard
[20:12] <balloons> is there another way to do it?
[20:13] <joneblade> ERROR:phablet-flash:Unsupported device, autodetect fails device
[20:14] <iBelieve> balloons, Probably the best thing to do would be to file a bug on the File Manager, attach the logs you have, and let the backend developer, Carlos, know since he probably knows best what is going wrong and how to debug it.
[20:14] <joneblade> how can you get around this?
[20:14] <balloons> iBelieve, noted, I'll do it
[20:14] <iBelieve> balloons, thanks!
[20:16] <balloons> iBelieve, so assign to whom? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app/+bug/1243854
[20:16] <balloons> I forgot there was a bug already for this :-)
[20:18] <iBelieve> balloons, I assigned it to Carlos. He is the backend developer
[20:24] <WebbyIT> What's left of Android in Ubuntu Touch ?
[20:24] <popey> WebbyIT: not much
[20:25] <mhall119> WebbyIT: some drivers and kernel stuff, not sure what's in the LXC container anymore
[20:26] <WebbyIT> popey, mhall119 thanks :)
[20:26] <mhall119> popey's "not much" is pretty accurate though :)
[20:26] <WebbyIT> popey, when will we restart to have weekly meeting for core-apps? :)
[20:26] <mhall119> getting PulseAudio, GStreamer and Mir working has, I think, replaced most of the Android services that were being used
[20:27] <WebbyIT> I want to improve the calculator :P
[20:27] <WebbyIT> mhall119, uou, thanks :)
[20:27] <mhall119> WebbyIT: you don't need to wait for meeting for that :)
[20:27] <Grumman> hello all
[20:27] <WebbyIT> mhall119, need design input ;)
[20:28] <mhall119> ah
[20:28] <Grumman> i have installed ubuntu mobile on my maco (nexus 4) everything works fine exept the ubuntu desktop feature. I connect it to a monitoe with the slimport adapter but nothing happens..... any suggestions?
[20:29] <WebbyIT> Grumman, convergence is not ready yet
[20:29] <balloons> iBelieve, while I have you.. can you look at this in a minute? https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-filemanager-app/fix-ap-tests-with-trusty/+merge/193113
[20:30] <Grumman> WebbyIT, thank you that explains a lot! :)
[20:30] <Grumman> Is there any developer version I can use?
[20:31] <iBelieve> balloons, sure
[20:31] <Grumman> I soo want it on my test phone!!! :)
[20:31] <iBelieve> balloons, approved
[20:32] <WebbyIT> Grumman, afaik, no
[20:32] <Grumman> :(
[20:32] <Grumman> thanks a lot for the info!
[20:33] <WebbyIT> Grumman, yw
[20:35] <Saviq> Mirv, hey, bug #1244549 would be fixed if we release unity-notifications and notify-osd
[20:35] <Saviq> Mirv, think we could get those released?
[20:38] <Mirv> Saviq: needs a Landing Asks
[20:39] <Mirv> Saviq: I added it to Asks, can you check it looks correct? last line
[20:41] <Saviq> Mirv, +1
[20:41] <Mirv> thanks
[21:10] <crocket> Mir
[21:10] <crocket> If the display server is Mir on ubuntu touch, will X11 applications run on it?
[21:27] <Mirv> kdub: any update on the unity-mir / app crasher issue?
[21:27] <Mirv> ie bug #1245958
[21:29] <kdub> Mirv, not yet, messed up my device
[21:51] <melvster> hi all anyone know how to search for an app?
[21:51] <melvster> i just got a message that bitcoin is now in the ubuntu touch store
[21:51] <melvster> but I cant seem to get it
[21:51] <ulkesh> i know it's not officially supported, but does anyone know if a ubuntu touch build has been made for the nexus 7 2nd gen (2013)?
[21:55] <melvster> oh ... wasnt connected to wlan
[23:28] <Mirv> ulkesh: not according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices which hopefully would mention it if someone would be doing the port at the moment
[23:40] <ulkesh> Mirv: thanks for the info and the link!
[23:48] <cyphermox> bfiller: so, address-book-app going to be in proposed soonish
[23:48] <bfiller> cyphermox: great, thanks
[23:48] <cyphermox> bfiller: however, I was able to make it crash various ways, I filed bug 1246130 about this
[23:50] <bfiller> cyphermox: ok, think it may be related to something in the system - seeing lots of apps crashing in today's proposedd image
[23:50] <cyphermox> bfiller: and it just died on my for no reason at all
[23:50] <cyphermox> ok
[23:50] <bfiller> cyphermox: yup
[23:50] <cyphermox> alright
[23:50] <cyphermox> anyway, going to be in proposed soon
[23:52] <bfiller> sergiusens: ping
[23:52] <bfiller> sergiusens: what's the process to run autopilot tests for click packages?


[00:45] <wilco> I see there's bzr-svn which seems to work like git-svn, where I keep my central SVN repo; is there an svn gateway for the hold-outs? Most of my team wants to use something more advanced than svn, but there are a few low-level folks that would need too much re-training
[00:47] <amanica> wilco, I'm not sure what you mean. You can keep everything in a svn repo and then use bzr-svn as a svn client
[00:48] <amanica> I do that a lot, but I prefer to use bzr for central server too
[00:49] <wilco> I'm thinking of something like git-cvsserver, but for bzr & svn... I don't want to hobble my central-server-side capability but I want to not break everyone's docs + training
[00:50] <amanica> wilco, I don't know of a something that works like that. afaik if you want to have pure svn clients, you need a pure svn server
[00:51] <wilco> I see
[00:51] <wilco> Thanks for the info
[00:51] <jelmer> wilco, there is an experimental svn server on top of bzr, but it's not finished yet
[00:51] <jelmer> wilco, 'bzr serve --svn' IIRC
[00:56] <wilco> jelmer: Interesting; thanks.
[00:58] <wilco> any idea of how incomplete it is? I don't see anything in the bzr package docs
[01:00] <jelmer> wilco: it only implements some parts of the svn smart server protocol, e.g. "svn log". It lacks a few important commands, including checkout.
[01:00] <spiv> Good morning.
[01:01] <jelmer> wilco: it's built as a thin layer on top of bzr-svn. I started on it about a year ago but haven't had time to spent on it since.
[01:01] <poolie> hi spivvo
[01:01] <wilco> Oh. I was hoping "incomplete" meant a lack of svn attributes and such.
[01:05] <AfC> jelmer: I know you did a bzr-git release recently. Any chance we can get someone  to put that into the Bazaar PPA?
[01:05] <AfC> bzr-git crashes for me at the moment, unfortunately [I mean, sure, {shrug} but I daresay it's long since fixed]
[01:08] <jelmer> AfC: I'm happy to upload to the PPA just now, but I won't make any promises about keeping it up to date...
[01:08] <jelmer> poolie, spiv: Who is maintaining the PPA these days?
[01:08] <AfC> jelmer: hey sure :)
[01:09] <AfC> Come to think of it, shouldn't bzr 2.2 be in the PPA now, too?
[01:09] <AfC> anyway
[01:09] <AfC> boat to catch
[01:10] <poolie> jelmer, mostly me?
[01:10] <poolie> feel free to upload
[01:10] <jelmer> poolie: ok
[01:11] <jelmer> I've just asked the Debian release team for a freeze exception for bzr 2.2 in squeeze
[01:11] <jelmer> bzr was released just one day after squeeze was frozen, apparently :-/
[01:24] <poolie> oops
[01:24] <poolie> did they have 2.2b4? it's a tolerably small change from that
[02:08] <AfC> jelmer: sorry to drop out on you
[02:22] <lifeless> AfC: jelmer has halted() :)
[02:22] <AfC> lifeless: just so as someone reboots him in the morning, we're fine.
[09:09] <spiv> Launchpad down... sounds like time to finish work for the day :)
[09:31] <poolie> good night spiv
[09:40] <sender> Hi, question: I'm trying to push and get this warning: bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/var/www/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Use --no-strict to force the push.
[09:41] <sender> Running bzr status, gives me no output. Anyone has an idea what's going on?
[09:42] <poolie> sender: that's strange
[09:42] <sender> poolie: thanks... I thought so too. I've tried to sudo both commands. Don't know if that could help, but it didn't. :(
[09:43] <poolie> and does the push succeed if you do use --no-strict
[09:43] <poolie> sudo isn't likely to help except for things like permission problems
[09:43] <sender> poolie: bzr status -S gives me: +   database/db.sql
[09:44] <sender> poolie: I just rm'ed this file... it was never versioned.
[09:44] <sender> poolie: is it normal that something shows up in bzr status -S, and not with bzr status?
[09:45] <poolie> no!
[09:46] <sender> :(
[09:46] <poolie> what does 'bzr --version' say?
[09:47] <sender> Bazaar (bzr) 2.1.1
[09:48] <sender> poolie: can this be a cause: I got permission errors on ~/.bzr_log, I've chown'd that file to my own user
[09:49] <sender> poolie: is there a way to verify my bzr repo?
[09:49] <poolie> 'bzr check'
[09:49] <sender> poolie: running bzr check now
[09:49] <poolie> so bzr status really just says nothing?
[09:52] <sender> that's correct
[09:52] <poolie> sender: that's really weird, i can't imagine a bzr bug that would make things show up in short mode but not otherwise
[09:53] <sender> poolie: bzr check didn't return any errors so it seems
[09:53] <poolie> what does 'bzr st database/db.sql' show you?
[09:53] <poolie> or 'bzr ls' that file
[09:54] <mvo> I get the following error on bzr diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/476834/plain/ (version 2.2.0)
[09:54] <mvo> is there anything I can to do recover?
[09:54] <sender> poolie: bzr: ERROR: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/www/database/db.sql'
[09:54] <sender> poolie: on bzr ls that file
[09:54] <poolie> sender: and 'bzr info'?
[09:55] <sender> poolie: bzr status that file gives me nothing
[09:55] <sender> poolie: (format: 1.9-rich-root)
[09:55] <poolie> sender: is that file perhaps a symlink ?
[09:55] <sender> poolie: and related branches... normal stuff
[09:55] <sender> nope
[09:55] <poolie> how about plain 'ls -ld /var/www/database/db.sql'
[09:55] <mvo> is that/could that be releated to LP being down?
[09:55] <sender> poolie: no connection with LP
[09:56] <sender> poolie: it's a local project
[09:56] <sender> poolie: ah I remember: I added the file, then rm
[09:56] <sender> 'ed it (sorry for the \n)
[09:57] <sender> poolie: I think I might be able to resolve it by reverting the file...
[09:58] <sender> poolie: but that doesn't change the fact that status and status -S have a different output
[09:58] <sender> poolie: and that I can't push without --no-strict...
[09:59] <poolie> mvo: it's possible, but it's probably not related
[10:00] <poolie> mvo: is this a new local branch?
[10:01] <poolie> mvo, can you please file a bug and ask jam to help when he wakes up?
[10:01] <mvo> poolie: its a checked out branch I was using for some time but recently upgraded to the latest format
[10:01] <mvo> poolie: sure, will do
[10:03] <mvo> thanks!
[10:05] <sender> poolie: should I try to revert the file? Or did I hit a serious BZR bug?
[10:10] <sender> poolie: Ok bzr revert . did resolve the problem
[12:38] <quicksilver> bzr merge from an old repo format into a new one is a bit broken
[12:38] <quicksilver> you probably don't care much but I thought I'd remark on it.
[12:52] <bialix> quicksilver: please, file a bug report
[12:53] <quicksilver> first of all it said "ERROR: Branches have no common ancestor, and no merge base revision was specified"
[12:53] <quicksilver> which was not the case
[12:53] <quicksilver> and then after specifying revision numbers it came up with hundreds, lierally, of conflicts.
[12:53] <quicksilver> upgrading the old repo first fixed it all.
[12:56] <quicksilver> I'm not really in a positon to file a reasonable report, and I don't have time today.
[12:56] <quicksilver> I'll make a note to try to do so next week.
[13:00] <bialix> quicksilver: error about common ancestors seems familiar for me, what is your bzr version?
[13:00] <quicksilver> just checking.
[13:01] <quicksilver> 2.1.0
[13:01] <quicksilver> the "new" format repo was Bazaar Branch Format 7 (needs bzr 1.6)
[13:01] <quicksilver> the "old" one was Bazaar Branch Format 6 (bzr 0.15)
[13:02] <bialix> what is repo format?
[13:02] <quicksilver> I thought that's what that was
[13:02] <quicksilver> how do I find out?
[13:03] <quicksilver> I did cat backup.bzr/branch/format
[13:03] <quicksilver> to get that part above
[13:03] <bialix> bzr info -v
[13:03] <quicksilver> but you need it for backup.bzr I guess?
[13:03] <bialix> it said about both branch and repository
[13:03] <bialix> maybe
[13:03] <quicksilver> ah
[13:03] <quicksilver> cat  backup.bzr/repository/format
[13:03] <bialix> then repository/format
[13:03] <quicksilver> Bazaar pack repository format 1 (needs bzr 0.92)
[13:04] <quicksilver> new is Bazaar repository format 2a (needs bzr 1.16 or later)
[13:08] <bialix> ah, rich-root vs poor-root
[13:08] <bialix> I'd suggest to check with bzr 2.2
[13:18] <quicksilver> bialix: If I copy the old backup.bzr to .bzr then I have the old repo back for reproduction purposes, right?
[13:18] <quicksilver> (there never was a working tree anyway)
[13:18] <bialix> yep
[13:18] <bialix> sorry, bbl
[16:20] <jam> mvo: hey, I missed the start of the conversation, but I'm around if you wanted to chat about something
[16:34] <thrope> is there a way to get a list of controlled files? ie like bzr status but list files that are unmodified
[16:35] <mvo> jam: I had a problem with my bzr branch, I solved it/worked around it now by using the .bzr dir of a fresh checkout. its the first time this ever happend to me, so it might just be local corruption, not sure its woth debugging it
[16:36] <thrope> ah bzr ls -V is what I was looking for
[16:46]  * lamont found 616878 to be most annoying
[16:47] <jelmer> bug 616878 ?
[16:47] <lamont> perfectly good repo, commit requires 2 commands instead of 1
[16:47] <lamont> in about 400 repos
[16:47] <lamont> with something like 10 users
[16:48] <mgz> if you're really doing it that many times, you can write yourself a two line shell script
[16:49] <jelmer> lamont: previously bzr would use "$USERNAME@$HOSTNAME" and that caused some people to do a lot of commits without a valid email address. IIRC that was the reason this check was put in place.
[16:50] <jelmer> allowing anonymous commits is reasonable, perhaps we should have "bzr whoami --anonymous" ?
[16:50] <jelmer> or maybe just "bzr commit --anonymous" ?
[16:50] <mgz> that bug should probably be converted into a question or something
[16:51] <mgz> I agree the --anon commit idea is good though, provided it doesn't just get misused
[16:51] <lamont> mgz: yes, we could, and we will.  just not very happy about it.
[16:51] <mgz> well, surely it's better than leaking your username and hostname into the repo?
[16:51] <lamont> these repos never do anything that has anything to do with emailing anything.
[16:52] <lamont> nor does the repo ever leave the machine in question, other than in backups
[16:52] <jelmer> lamont: Is it really anonymousness you're after or just wanting to avoid extra configuration ?
[16:52] <jelmer> it sounds like it's more about configuration than anonymousness
[16:52] <lamont> it's really just having bzr commit keep working across the upgrade that I'm after... really don't care what the user/email addr are in the commit
[16:53] <mgz> okay, so we've caused you some pain.
[16:53] <jelmer> lamont: So it's the extra configuration that was previously not necessary.
[16:53] <mgz> in your case for no gain, but bar reverting the change (which I think is a bad idea), what can we actually do to help you?
[16:54] <jelmer> lamont: it will use the EMAIL or BZR_EMAIL environment variables if set, if that helps.
[16:54] <lamont> jelmer: does it only care about email?
[16:54] <jelmer> lamont: it doesn't really care about the value, just that there is something set explicitly.
[16:54] <lamont> cool
[16:55] <lamont> jelmer: you wanna throw that into the bug as a comment/workaround suggestion?
[16:55] <lamont> otherwise, I will
[16:55] <jelmer> Yeah, sure
[16:56] <lamont> ta
[16:58] <jelmer> mgz: what do you think about warning rather than errorring out completely ?
[17:00] <Ng> what about etckeeper? it is a robot doing commits to bzr. a robot with no email address
[17:00] <Ng> just as a random thing in the ubuntu archive which does non-humanic commits ;)
[17:01] <jelmer> Hi Chris
[17:01] <jelmer> Ng: it sets EMAIL explicitly IIRC
[17:02] <Ng> if it is, it's using $USERNAME@$HOSTNAME? ;)
[17:03] <jelmer> yep
[17:03] <mgz> jelmer: but what would bzr do after issuing the warning?
[17:03] <jelmer> ./commit.d/50vcs-commit:		export EMAIL="$USER <$USER@$hostname>"
[17:03] <jelmer> mgz: continue on doing the commit
[17:03] <mgz> using what as the email?
[17:04] <jelmer> mgz: the guessed email address (as we did prior to 2.2). The user can always uncommit and recommit with an email address set.
[17:04] <mgz> part of the reason I'm glad so see the old code go is that trying to interpret `username + "@" + hostname` as an email adress lead to a lot of bugs
[17:04] <mgz> both are unicode on windows, and can contain spaces
[17:05] <mgz> this means unicodeerrors, and code trying to split things getting confused by extra spaces, and so on.
[17:05] <jelmer> hmm
[17:05] <Ng> jelmer: well then that's not a great example ;)
[17:05] <mgz> also, having my local username and hostname end up in some public repo is a bad thing.
[17:06] <Ng> mgz: because of your specific circumstances, or general position?
[17:06] <mgz> I prefer getting yelled at.
[17:07] <jelmer> I like being told, but not being blocked.
[17:07] <mgz> ng: well, a general position, it's a Bad Thing.
[17:07] <jelmer> Perhaps we could just use $USERNAME
[17:08] <mgz> one repo I poked on launchpad had four different contributors depending on which box the guy who owned it was hacking from.
[17:08] <lamont> other VCS implementations going back a decade or so use $USERNAME@$FQDN
[17:08] <lamont> rather than the short hostname
[17:08] <mgz> might work on a university box,
[17:09] <mgz> but who has a sensible domain set up from their home machine?
[17:09] <Ng> mgz: why does that matter?
[17:09] <lamont> mgz: many of us do
[17:09] <mgz> I like clean repos with readable blame and stats.
[17:10] <Ng> then make whoami procedure for your employees :)
[17:10] <mgz> I'm a lone hacker, and it's other people's repos I worry about.
[17:10] <jelmer> mgz: I don't think that's a reason to force everybody to have a sane committer email address...
[17:10] <mgz> I think telling them is better than using an insane address.
[17:11] <elmo> mgz: you're assuming the email address matters
[17:11] <mgz> if they want to use something odd, they can set whoami to (nearly) whatever they like
[17:11] <jelmer> mgz: Telling them is different from forcing them to use a sane address.
[17:11] <elmo> mgz: that's not a reasonable assumption
[17:11] <mgz> I think the user *id* matters
[17:11] <mgz> which unfortunately means Name <Email>
[17:12] <mgz> the user id is baked into every commit made.
[17:12] <Ng> what this discussion clearly shows to me is that this is a local policy issue
[17:13] <mgz> what this discussion shows is that four people are awake currently.
[17:13] <jelmer> mgz: I count 5 >-)
[17:13] <mgz> I don't think you can draw big conclusions, but bugging people is always unpopular, sure.
[17:14] <mgz> whatever happens that isn't a return to buggy code that doesn't even make much sense on nix, I'll live with
[17:15] <lvh> hey
[17:15] <jelmer> hi lvh
[17:15] <lvh> any eclipse+bzr users here? I'm somewhat confused as to how you use the plguin effectively
[17:15] <lvh> the only way I can figure out is if you use lightweight checkout and switch all the time
[17:16] <mgz> switching is fine.
[17:16] <lvh> the other way is if each branch is its own project
[17:16] <lvh> mgz: I've never done it. What docs should I read? bzr switch manpage?
[17:16] <mgz> you can have a shared repo with no trees, and one tree under it for eclipse
[17:16] <mgz> then switch that tree between the other branches on the repo as you work on them
[17:17] <mgz> I think there was something on the list quite recently with directions you could read...
[17:17] <maxb> That's basically the only way I can see making sense - it's a shame Eclipse makes it so hard to add/remove projects.
[17:18] <lvh> yeah
[17:18] <lvh> it's definitely eclipse's fault but you know it's a sad day when hg integration makes me happier than bzr integration
[17:18] <maxb> Well... MercurialEclipse is vastly more advanced than bzr-eclipse
[17:19] <maxb> And qbzr-eclipse, whilst useful, isn't exactly an Eclipse integration
[17:19] <maxb> I would love to push bzr at work, but this is my primary inhibitor
[17:19] <jelmer> mgz: fwiw I don't think we should pretend we can guess the email address by using $USERNAME@$HOSTNAME. I'd rather just use the $USERNAME as the full committer text and be done with it; we already have to deal with that situation in other cases anyway when we import committers from svn or cvs.
[17:20] <mgz> jelmer: encoded as utf-8?
[17:21] <jelmer> mgz: Yeah (we already mandate that the committer field is encoded as utf8)
[17:23] <mgz> lvh: this is actually about large repos, but the workflow is the one you want: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2010q3/069499.html
[17:24] <mgz> (maxb can correct me if there's anything wrong)
[17:25] <maxb> I don't think so
[18:20] <basic`> Hi everyone, is it possible to force filesystem permissions in bzr?  We're using it for drupal.org webroots and for whatever reason new files are being added with rw------- / 600 permissions that can't be read by the webserver
[18:21] <basic`> has anyone hit an issue similar to this?  the files in the repository checkout that the commits are coming in from have 664 permissions
[18:21] <basic`> i read over https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/67589 but it didn't seem to be the right issue
[18:34] <maxb> basic`: I would check the umask of the user executing bzr on the webserver
[18:34] <basic`> maxb: it's 022 like the other users
[18:34] <maxb> that is surprising
[18:35] <basic`> it should be creating directories with 755 and files with 644
[18:36] <basic`> and it seems to be working for the other sites under bzr.. let me test
[18:38] <basic`> maxb: actually... i take that back it looks like the umask is different on the box that has the nfs mount and these updates are being run... that explains it
[18:39] <basic`> wait, it's even more permissive on that box (0002)
[18:39] <maxb> odd.
[18:39]  * maxb afk now
[18:39] <basic`> maxb: thanks :)
[20:22] <dlee> Trying to find revisions lost on revert.  Sequence done: unbind, local commits, bind, update... got a bunch of unexpected conflicts apparently caused by case differences in folder names... mistake?: did a revert, but now I can't find any of my local revisions.  Can I get them w/o knowing revids??
[20:23] <james_w> dlee: "bzr heads --dead"
[20:23] <james_w> from bzrtools
[20:24] <james_w> that should show you the tip revision you had before the upload
[20:24] <james_w> update I mean
[20:25] <dlee> I thought bzrtools was integrated now... uknown command "heads" bzr 2.0.0 here.
[20:26] <dlee> I can probably get that part to work... but on finding it, can I still reintegrate those local commits?  I had planned to do update/rebase/commit to update the upstream repo.
[20:30] <dlee> Found the revids using a 2.2.0 where "heads" works... so down to that above question. :)
[20:35] <james_w> dlee: you can either "bzr pull --overwrite -r revid" to get back to where you were before you started
[20:35] <james_w> or "bzr merge . -r revid" to get back to where you were before the revert
[20:36] <dlee> Hmm... pull, when the found revid is only local?
[20:37] <james_w> err, yeah, with a dot as well, sorry
[20:37] <james_w> "bzr pull . --overwrite -r revid"
[20:38] <dlee> Trying to decide which makes more sense for the ultimate goal, which is to upload my local commits onto the upstream branch, presumably after a rebase.
[20:39] <dlee> Ah ... the "pull" should literally rewrite everything to where it was, then I can try the original merge again... wonder if --reprocess will help deal with the mess of foldername conflicts...
[20:43] <dlee> Getting "no such revision" on "bzr log -rrevid:<foundID>" and a traceback, in 2.0.0 and 2.2.0.
[20:46] <basic`> maxb: so i'm as stumped as you are with the permissions thing... doing another bzr checkout of the tree has the correct permissions
[21:01] <dlee> JamesW:  Ouch... your "pull --overwrite" suggestion worked, but I forgot to unbind first!  Result: I overwrote the upstream branch with my local one.  Odd though, the upstream branch is supposed to forbid history alterations.
[21:02] <dlee> The error I mentioned earlier is a bug in "log": It crashes trying to convert a revid to a dotted revno.  I'll file that one when I can.
[21:04] <orospakr> Hi!  I'm looking through the docs, but I can't find a mode I thought exists for having a smart-server's repo containing multiple-branches in place.  at least, I don't want to have to make a copy of my entire repo on my server for every new branch I want to have.
[21:05] <orospakr> (my workflow is creating a new branch for each new ticket of work, so super-cheap branches are a must)
[21:06] <orospakr> ah, http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.2/en/user-guide/shared_repository_layouts.html#nested-style-project-branch-sub-branch
[21:06] <orospakr> I think.
[21:10] <dlee> orospakr: yes, sounds like a perfect time for a shared repo structure.
[21:12] <orospakr> hm. with that approach (init-repo), do I have to create all new branches on the server by sshing to it and typing a `bzr branch` command in locally?
[21:25] <dlee> orospakr: You can do that, but you can also push a branch from elsewhere if you have one to push.  Do all branches start from one common branch?
[21:26] <orospakr> yeah, everything ultimately has a common ancestor. You're saying that if I happen to fork a new branch on my dev machine, I can push that into the server's shared repository without interacting directly with a shell on the server?
[21:26] <dlee> I doubt "bzr push bzr+ssh://my.domain.com/var/bzr/proj/branch5" from a local copy of the main branch would cost that much... Others can correct me of course, but I doubt that sends all the texts from local to server when the server has a shared repo for the branches.
[21:27] <orospakr> ah, so if I just give it the path with $existing_repo/my_new_branch, it should Just Work?
[21:27] <dlee> orospakr: Yes:  If you have, say, done "bzr co bzr+ssh://my.domain.com/var/bzr/proj/trunk," you can do what I showed above to make branch5.
[21:27] <orospakr> ie., bzr push  bzr+ssh://myserver/$existing_repo/my_new_branch
[21:28] <orospakr> sweet. it worked!
[21:28] <orospakr> thanks.
[21:28] <dlee> orospakr :)
[21:29] <orospakr> it'd be a bonus if I could avoid typing the "bzr+ssh://myserver/$existing_repo" part every time I want to make a new branch there.
[21:29] <orospakr> or rather, *push to* a new branch there.
[21:30] <dlee> orospakr: (1) shell variables.  (2) "bzr bookmarks" etc., if you have bzrtools (I believe that's part of bzrtools at least)
[21:31] <fullermd> Separate plugin.
[21:32] <dlee> oops thanks
[21:33] <orospakr> hm. I wonder, I want to figure out how my colleague can pull that branch onto her machine, without having to make an entire new local branch, with redundant storage of all the history that is already in her local repo of the main branch of our project.
[21:34] <orospakr> I guess she could branch her local one, and then pulled the new branch from the server into that new local branch.  Requires more steps that I think would be elegant, though.
[21:37] <rocky--> jelmer, hey... when i merge from a remote svn branch, commit changes in my local branch, and then push back... i get an error saying operation denied because it would change mainline history... did i do something wrong
[21:37] <rocky--> ?
[21:38] <jelmer> rock--: No, but you have to realize your change would remove the current tip from the remote branch and replace it with your merge revision.
[21:38] <rocky--> hm that sounds more intrusive then i'd like
[21:39] <jelmer> rocky--: That's why it's requiring you to set a configuration option before allowing that.
[21:40] <rocky--> is there a less intrusive thing i could have done to achieve a similar result?
[21:50] <jelmer> rocky--: rebase
[21:51] <jelmer> or you could've merged your branch into an up to date copy of the remote branch and pushed that.
[21:59] <dlee> JamesW:  If you're still here, thanks much... got all cleaned up and rebased and in sync.
[22:16] <quotemstr> Say I have a branch in ~/foo/bar/trunk; I'd like to convert ~/foo/bar to a shared repositroy.
[22:16] <quotemstr> Can I do that by just running (with CWD being ~/foo/bar) bzr init-repo . and bzr branch trunk trunk2 ?
[22:20] <jelmer> quotemstr: yes, although you can also do:
[22:20] <jelmer> bzr init-repo . && cd trunk && bzr reconfigure --use-shared
[22:20] <quotemstr> Thanks.


[12:50] <Viper550> To kwwii about the panel background: We have a glossy logo, but a non glossy theme, isn't that still allowed?
[12:50] <kwwii> Viper550: the glossy logo is not shown on the desktop, and the theme is glossy, just look at the icons
[12:51] <Viper550> I meant the widgets...but are the icons still Crystal SVG?
[12:51] <kwwii> yepp
[12:52] <Viper550> Oh, I kinda thought it was going to be Crystal Diamond
[12:53] <Viper550> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=45576
[12:54] <kwwii> nope
[12:55] <Viper550> Oh...but still..if they can be optimized size wise, they might make a good idea for Edgy+1
[01:00] <kwwii> edgy+1 will be kde4, which will use oxygen
[01:01] <Viper550> Really? Will KDE 4 even be out by then?
[01:04] <kwwii> well, it will not be out until right at the release of edgy+1
[01:04] <kwwii> but the packages will be really good by then
[01:04] <kwwii> almost finished
[01:06] <Viper550> Ahh...okay?
[01:07] <kwwii> so there is no point in changing things on that level when it is the last of it's kind
[01:07] <Viper550> oh...
[01:07] <Viper550> Wait, will KDE3 icon schemes be compatible with KDE 4?
[01:08] <kwwii> nope
[01:08] <kwwii> well, maybe
[01:08] <kwwii> we might make a system to use them
[01:08] <kwwii> but we will change the naming soon
[01:10] <Viper550> Man, the migration to KDE 4 is going to be quite interesting
[01:10] <kwwii> yepp
[01:12] <Viper550> Hmm, wonder what the default theme will be like...
[01:12] <Viper550> Speaking of default themes, I remember you saying that there was going to be a custom Kubuntu style made?
[01:13] <kwwii> nope, never said that
[01:13] <kwwii> ;-)
[01:13] <kwwii> we have window buttons
[01:13] <kwwii> but no style
[01:13] <Viper550> oh...I must have overheard
[01:13] <kwwii> we are making an oxygen style
[01:14] <Viper550> for KDE4?
[01:16] <kwwii> eventually perhaps
[01:16] <Viper550> are there any pictures yet?
[01:18] <kwwii> nope
[01:18] <kwwii> we have code, but until we are closer to getting what we want we will not release a screenshot
[01:19] <Viper550> I hope it's glossy
[01:22] <Viper550> One more thing, you said the gradient and color scheme was updated for Knot 3?
[01:22] <kwwii> yepp
[01:22] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/snapshot2.png
[01:23] <kwwii> hehe, no window in that screen
[01:23] <Viper550> Yay, no more bronzed wallpaper!
[01:24] <kwwii> try this....same as before, only snapshot3.png
[01:25] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/snapshot3.png
[01:26] <Viper550> Erm, is it me, or is the new gradient a cross between what we had earlier and simple lighting?
[01:27] <kwwii> no idea, I just made it so it looked decent to me
[01:27] <Viper550> Actually looks a bit...weird
[01:28] <kwwii> hehe
[01:28] <Viper550> If you want, here's the overlay I use: http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7435_gradientoverlay.png
[01:29] <kwwii> nice, but I like something a bit different
[01:30] <Viper550> I might wanna try making something a bit more like what you have there...
[01:33] <Viper550> What I'm making now is a bit simliar to the appearance of Lipstik's widgets
[01:38] <kwwii> cool
[01:38] <kwwii> time for bed
[01:38] <kwwii> see you
[01:38] <Viper550> cya
[10:19] <lapo> hi
[06:30] <bersace> troy_s: hi brother !
[06:30] <bersace> :P
[06:32] <kwwii_> hehe
[09:32] <PingunZ> ping Seveas
[09:32] <Seveas> Ping unZ
[09:32] <PingunZ> :)
[09:33] <PingunZ> I'm on edgy again, How can I finally get the usplash-theme working ?
[09:33] <Seveas> apt-get install usplash usplash-theme-ubuntu
[09:34] <PingunZ> Seveas, That's it ?
[09:35] <PingunZ> No vga="x" in menu.lst ?
[09:35] <Seveas> no
[09:36] <Seveas> vga= things may actually break it
[09:36] <PingunZ> Ok, I'm going to reboot then ;)
[09:36] <PingunZ> Ah, I'll see if I haven't got it enabled then
[09:37] <PingunZ> Ok, brb
[09:41] <PingunZ> Seveas, If you're not kidding, and you don't mean the ugly tv-testscreen-like usplash, then its not working :)
[09:42] <Seveas> PingunZ, dpkg -l '*usplash*' | grep usplash
[09:42] <PingunZ> ii  usplash              0.4-24         Userspace bootsplash utility
[09:42] <PingunZ> ii  usplash-theme-ubuntu 0.1-1          Usplash theme for Ubuntu
[09:42] <Seveas> ls -l /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so
[09:43] <PingunZ> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 2006-09-10 22:26 /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so -> /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-default.so
[09:43] <Seveas> hmm
[09:43] <Seveas> update-alternatives --list usplash-artwork.spo
[09:43] <Seveas> update-alternatives --list usplash-artwork.so
[09:43] <PingunZ> /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-theme-ubuntu.so
[09:44] <Seveas> odd -- a symlink isn't getting corrected there
[09:44] <Seveas> are you on x86?
[09:44] <PingunZ> yup
[09:44] <PingunZ> uname[Linux Edgy 2.6.17-7-386 #2 Wed Sep 6 17:53:03 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux]
[09:44] <Seveas> wget http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash-switcher
[09:45] <Seveas> chmod +x usplash_switcher
[09:45] <Seveas> chmod +x usplash-switcher
[09:45] <Seveas> sudo ./usplash-switcher
[09:45] <Seveas> select the theme and click 'switch'
[09:46] <PingunZ> Wow, great app
[09:46] <PingunZ> I taught you weren't releasing it ?
[09:46] <Seveas> I'm not
[09:46] <PingunZ> Done !
[09:46] <Seveas> I'm just providing the binary and source
[09:46] <Seveas> if you wanna call that releasing... ;)
[09:46] <Seveas> PingunZ, then it should work now
[09:46] <PingunZ> ^^
[09:46] <PingunZ> Ok, reboot :)
[09:49] <PingunZ> Seveas, its working !
[09:49] <Seveas> as i expected
[09:49] <Seveas> now to figure out what the symlink is doing
[09:49] <PingunZ> Thanks man, nice work !!
[09:51] <PingunZ> Ok, now, I have like a dark-brown border around the lighter-brown .. is that normal ?
[09:51] <Seveas> cat /etc/usplash.conf
[09:51] <PingunZ> xres=1280
[09:51] <PingunZ> yres=1024
[09:51] <Seveas> yeahm than it's noral
[09:52] <Seveas> normal*
[09:52] <PingunZ> Ok :)
[09:52] <PingunZ> Ok, now I want to make my own theme :D I just want to use a background image ( instead of the light and dark-brown.
[09:52] <PingunZ> And make the throbber blue
[09:52] <PingunZ> is that possible ?
[09:52] <PingunZ>  // much work ,
[09:53] <PingunZ> *?
[09:53] <Seveas> possible and not too much work
[09:53] <Seveas> look at thes source for the existing themes
[09:58] <PingunZ> Ok :)
[09:59] <PingunZ> First I'm finishing my grub splash, then I'll make my gsplash and then I'll try to make a Usplash
[09:59] <PingunZ> *linux is full of splashes
[11:43] <Viper550> kwwii, if you were to use my overlay, you would have to tweak the buttons a but
[11:43] <Viper550> *bit


[06:45] <gour> morning
[06:46] <gour> afaik, after cloning some git repo with 'git clone repo-url', one can do 'git fetch' and then checkout to some other (non-master) branch. with brz it's possible to use 'brz switch', but i wonder how to replace 'git clone url; git fetch' with brz only?
[08:46] <jelmer> gour: breezy's operations are generally per branch rather than per repository (as in Git)
[08:46] <jelmer> gour: there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/brz/+bug/831939 for clone support
[08:46] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 831939 in Breezy "command for cloning bzrdir including *all* colocated branches" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[08:48] <gour> jelmer: thanks. that would be cool to have, indeed
[09:05] <jelmer> gour: FWIW you can address individual colocated branches by adding ",branch=blah" to the end of a URL
[09:05] <jelmer> but it's a bit clunky
[09:11] <gour> jelmer: i tried that before, but it was not clear whether i should do it in a separate directory or within original clone...moreover, i got some errors in regard and therefore did 'git clone; git fetch'
[10:54] <jelmer> gour: something like 'brz branch https://code.blah/foo,branch=blah file:.,branch=blah' should work
[10:54] <jelmer> but yeah, pretty clunky :)


[12:59] <Burgundavia> salut mdke
[12:59] <mdke> hi Burgundavia
[12:59] <mdke> hows things?
[01:00] <Burgundavia> not bad
[01:00] <Burgundavia> finally getting my speech done
[01:00] <mdke> speech?
[01:00] <Burgundavia> giving a talk about Ubuntu
[01:00] <Burgundavia> http://lfnw.blug.org/fest2005/schedule.dxp
[01:00] <mdke> awesome
[01:01] <mdke> cool agenda
[01:01] <Burgundavia> lol http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Kenjiromu/paid.jpg
[01:02] <mdke> what talks are you gonna attend? apart from your own...
[01:02] <Burgundavia> no idea
[01:03] <jsgotangco> salut
[01:03] <mdke> looks like loads of cool ones
[01:03] <mdke> hi jsgotangco
[01:03] <Burgundavia> hey our UDU-going friend
[01:04] <mdke> seen this? http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120520,00.asp
[01:04] <Burgundavia> yep
[01:05] <Burgundavia> distrowatch keeps are pretty good handle on the reviews
[01:05] <mdke> oh right
[01:05] <mdke> cool
[01:08] <jsgotangco> whats cookin
[01:10] <Burgundavia> nah, he is already in aussie, he is already there
[01:11] <jsgotangco> i might move here
[01:11] <jsgotangco> the weather is really nice
[01:11] <mdke> jsgotangco, ignore those meetings and I will turn up the fire
[01:13] <mdke> i wouldn't put it past you crazy guys to have one of those
[01:13] <mdke> its out today isn't it?
[01:13] <jsgotangco> there was a request for that over here
[01:16] <Burgundavia> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8276
[01:16] <Burgundavia> cool, it mentions that we are presenting
[01:29] <jsgotangco> mdke, there's only a Rosetta WorkFlow bof atm
[01:33] <mdke> i haven't seen the timetable for today
[01:33] <mdke> jsgotangco, you just have fun!
[01:33] <mdke> that's what its all about
[01:33] <Burgundavia> it thurs or wed there?
[01:33] <mdke> thur
[01:34] <mdke> did you guys see that henrik transferred the static documentation from the website to the wiki?
[01:36] <jsgotangco> no i didnt notice that
[01:36] <jsgotangco> sure im having fun here but the bay is so inviting outside...*sniff*
[01:38] <mdke> Burgundavia, aww leave him alone
[01:38] <mdke> he is there for himself and to have a good time
[01:38] <Burgundavia> nope
[01:38] <jsgotangco> naw that's too selfish
[01:38] <mdke> well i certainly didn't pay any of his fare
[01:38] <jsgotangco> im the defender of the dokteam kause
[01:38] <mdke> jsgotangco, :)
[01:38] <jsgotangco> note the k
[01:39] <mdke> yes
[01:39] <mdke> it was a forced smile
[01:39] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[01:39] <jsgotangco> people say my gnome was borked because it had Ks all over
[01:39] <Burgundavia> evil evil KDE users
[01:39] <Burgundavia> should be shot
[01:39] <mdke> i have to say, there is a certain amount of incompatibility between kde and gnome on Ubuntu when you run both
[01:39] <jsgotangco> shot Riddel and amu
[01:40] <mdke> i'm tempted to file it as a bug
[01:40] <jsgotangco> i just run ubuntu gnome now
[01:40] <jsgotangco> my kubuntu is so borked
[01:40] <jsgotangco> this thing is soooo plain
[01:40] <jsgotangco> we had this artwork bof
[01:40] <jsgotangco> andy was heading it
[01:41] <jsgotangco> he hated the 1pixel black borders on icons
[01:41] <mdke> jsgotangco, you musn't name drop and assume that i know who you're talking about
[01:41] <jsgotangco> i dont know his nick!
[01:41] <mdke> surname?
[01:42] <jsgotangco> well anyway he did some nice human icons on draft but was totally way out of the gnome spec
[01:42] <jsgotangco> fitzimmons
[01:42] <jsgotangco> it was pretty shiny though, like kde icons
[01:42] <jsgotangco> but not so cartoonish
[01:43] <Burgundavia> I like the clean plain desktop
[01:43] <jsgotangco> he's trying to get Human as default on breezy
[01:43] <jsgotangco> becase the current human icons are plain hideous
[01:43] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, im on default as well
[01:44] <mdke> meh
[01:44] <mdke> i can't stand brown on my desktop
[01:44] <mdke> i like blue
[01:44] <jsgotangco> that reminds me
[01:44] <jsgotangco> let me get ubuntu-cal
[01:44] <jsgotangco> awww but that would make me remove my rushcutters bay wallpaper
[01:45] <Burgundavia> shiny --> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=23446&file1=23446-1.png&file2=&file3=&name=Ubuntu+World
[01:45] <Burgundavia> already  --> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=23376&file1=23376-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=Ubuntu+5.10+%28Breezy+Badger%29+CD+cover
[01:46] <jsgotangco> who did that?
[01:46] <Burgundavia> no idea
[01:46] <mdke> the first one is ok
[01:46] <Burgundavia> is on gnome-look
[01:46] <jsgotangco> its got australia
[01:47] <Burgundavia> my current --> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/files/19845-lanscape.jpg
[01:48] <jsgotangco> oohhhh that's nice
[01:48] <Burgundavia> there are a series by him
[01:49] <Burgundavia> I use tobacco-sky for a gdm login screen
[01:50] <mdke> what gnome theme?
[01:50] <Kinnison> burgey!
[01:50] <Burgundavia> salut Kinnison, my favourite camera target
[01:51] <Burgundavia> I am missing you
[01:51] <Burgundavia> mdke, http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=18178
[01:51] <jsgotangco> i like tobacco sky
[01:51] <mdke> what gnome theme?
[01:51] <jsgotangco> bbl BOF
[01:51] <mdke> thats a sexy gdm
[01:51] <Burgundavia> indeed
[01:51] <Burgundavia> there are some thoughts that something like that should be default
[01:52] <Burgundavia> it is also very calm
[01:52] <mdke> geez I need that gdm
[01:52] <Burgundavia> and has no text on it
[01:52] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: It's a pity because there's a rather cute one here
[01:52] <Burgundavia> Kinnison, dammit!
[01:53] <Burgundavia> who?
[01:53] <jsgotangco> haha
[01:53] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: We went to a gay bar last night too, it was so much fun.
[01:54] <jsgotangco> Kinnison, @ Kings Cross?
[01:56] <jsgotangco> its only thursday you can still catch a plane and arrive on saturday
[01:56] <Burgundavia> right
[01:56] <Burgundavia> I have to give a talk on Sat
[01:56] <Burgundavia> and I have no money
[01:57] <Burgundavia> aussie costs a lot to get there
[01:57] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: aye
[01:57] <Kinnison> jsgotangco: darlinghurst
[01:57] <Burgundavia> I spent my money on a trip to Spain
[01:57] <jsgotangco> i only like $10A in my pocket
[01:57] <Burgundavia> in retrospect, I should have applied
[01:57] <Burgundavia> I didn't realize how under-represented the docteam was going to be
[01:58] <jsgotangco> aye
[01:58] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[01:58] <Burgundavia> cest la vie, prochaine fois
[01:58] <jsgotangco> mary drops by now and then anyway
[01:58] <mdke> jsgotangco, it doesn't matter!
[01:59] <Burgundavia> OO.o Impress has this annoying bug of trying to save every 15 minutes when the doc hasn't been saved at all
[01:59] <Burgundavia> so rather tahn just silently saving a temp somehwer, it pops up and grabs attention
[01:59] <Burgundavia> even across virtual desktops
[01:59] <jsgotangco> heh  not just impress
[02:00] <Burgundavia> I hate OO
[02:00] <Burgundavia> I just wish there was a presentation app for Gnome Office
[02:00] <cc2> Burgundavia: you can turn that feature off
[02:01] <Burgundavia> cc, it is not off by default
[02:01] <Burgundavia> that is a bug
[02:01] <Burgundavia> and I don't use OO.o enough to dig through and find it
[02:01] <jsgotangco> no thats an undocumented feature
[02:01] <cc> Burgundavia: actually, with upstream it is. its _not_ a bug. its a feature. Word has it turned on
[02:01] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[02:01] <cc> as does any sane office suite
[02:01] <Burgundavia> cc, it looks like a bug and smells like a bug
[02:01] <jsgotangco> aye
[02:01] <Burgundavia> cc, it grabs my attention and beeps my computer speaker
[02:01] <Burgundavia> that is a BUG
[02:02] <cc> Burgundavia: you can turn that off, if you'd like. i.e. even the prompting bit. it can just "autosave" (and that might annoy some too)
[02:02] <cc> there's no winning with users. everyone wants it set differently
[02:02] <mdke> autosave = good. Autosave when doc is not already saved = bad
[02:02] <cc> so, it just gets set "one way"
[02:02] <Burgundavia> cc, still on by default though
[02:02] <Burgundavia> autosave is a good idea, but this implementation is a bad idea
[02:02] <Burgundavia> understand that key difference
[02:02] <jsgotangco> autosave is good
[02:03] <jsgotangco> hypatia, hi
[02:03] <Burgundavia> generally OO.o is a pile of Usability bugs jammed into a terrible interface
[02:03] <Burgundavia> with an annoying help interface to boot
[02:03] <hypatia> morning
[02:03] <jsgotangco> gyaahh don't use it
[02:03] <mdke> hi hypatia
[02:04] <jsgotangco> go back to the holy grail of office suite
[02:04] <Burgundavia> cc, even if I knew you were an upstream OO devel, I still would have said that
[02:05] <cc> Burgundavia: i know; it blows, but i'm telling you the difference i guess
[02:05] <cc> the fact that by default its disabled upstream
[02:05] <cc> and we had a bug filed saying enable it
[02:05] <Burgundavia> cc, I understand where you are coming from
[02:05] <Burgundavia> you have a huge legacy codebase
[02:05] <Burgundavia> and a legacy of trying to emulate MS Office
[02:06] <Burgundavia> which to me is a very bad thing, but that is a topic for another discussion
[02:06] <cc> Burgundavia: and its the best, at the moment (and probably will be for a long time)
[02:07] <Burgundavia> I agree with you there
[02:07] <jsgotangco> does the same thing happen in OOo v2?
[02:07] <Burgundavia> cc, you work for sun?
[02:08] <cc> Burgundavia: no
[02:08] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:09] <Burgundavia> cc, is there movement of getting OO gettextized?
[02:09] <cc> Burgundavia: nope; proposed spec, people see codebase, they run
[02:09] <cc> far, far away
[02:09] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:10] <Burgundavia> I have never looked at OO code, but I understand it is a little hairy to dive into
[02:17] <Burgundavia> ok, I have to go
[02:17] <mdke> bye matey
[06:12] <jsgotangco> hypatia, you there?
[06:13] <hypatia> yeah, mostly
[06:13] <jsgotangco> ok theres a PackagingSystemDocumentation BOF and I am in second fyi
[06:14] <jsgotangco> its low priority anyway
[06:17] <hypatia> Right.
[06:17] <hypatia> When I said "yeah" I meant I'm on IRC.
[06:17] <hypatia> I'm not physically there until Saturday.
[06:21] <jsgotangco> yeah im aware of that tee hee
[06:43] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:41] <froud> African Greetings
[07:42] <d3vic3> O.o
[07:43] <d3vic3> Ah, you south african
[07:43] <froud> d3vic3: yep
[07:43] <d3vic3> the right word would be "molweni" (same language as "ubuntu")
[07:43] <d3vic3> :-D
[07:43] <froud> and by your domain you are in au
[07:44] <froud> welcome to Ubuntu-doc
[07:44] <froud> come to join us write docs
[07:45] <d3vic3> I'm in au but I'm from za
[07:45] <d3vic3> I'm attending UDU
[07:45] <froud> sanbonani
[07:45] <froud> Howzit going fo ryou at UDU?
[07:46] <froud> vic in the nick mean you from Victoria
[07:47] <froud> or is it part of your name
[07:48] <d3vic3> lol
[07:49] <d3vic3> device <-- that my nick
[07:49] <froud> Ah ha
[07:49] <froud> sorry 07:30 is not the best time for this type of thinking
[07:50] <d3vic3> udu is going well, I think, everyone is busy with specs
[07:50] <froud> So d3vic3 you going to some bofs
[07:50] <d3vic3> was in one just now
[07:50] <froud> which one?
[07:51] <froud> Hmmm this is gonna be a slow chat :-)
[07:52] <d3vic3> JavaRoadMap
[07:52] <froud> morn Burgundavia cc hypatia jiyuu0 Kinnison mdke
[07:52] <cc> yes, froud ?
[07:52] <froud> Ooooh another java lover, nice
[07:52] <froud> cc: just saying morning
[07:52] <d3vic3> lo
[07:52] <cc> oh, hi
[07:53] <froud> yep we need more acceptance of java
[07:53] <hypatia> morning froud.
[07:53] <hypatia> good afternoon, UDU.
[07:54] <froud> so d3vic3 I guess you are on ubuntu-doc because you are gonna help us write documents, right ;-)
[07:54] <froud> hypatia: hows UDU for you today
[07:54] <froud> jsgotangco: hello dude
[07:54] <froud> jsgotangco: long time no speak
[07:55] <jsgotangco> hey froud how have you been
[07:55] <jsgotangco> yes
[07:55] <d3vic3> I might, dunno how much work Im actually in for after UDU
[07:55] <froud> How was the documentation packaging bof
[07:55] <froud> d3vic3: why is that?
[07:55] <jsgotangco> well we had to move it on saturday along with Intro Developer Docs
[07:55] <jsgotangco> its so specific
[07:55] <froud> jsgotangco: yeah intro developer docs need to come to docteam
[07:56] <d3vic3> that on for saturday, iirc
[07:56] <jsgotangco> froud, yeah we figured that out...well im doing Dial Up BOF later
[07:56] <jsgotangco> the new stuff in svn will come in handy
[07:56] <froud> yep, I saw
[07:56] <froud> yes, nice doc
[07:57] <froud> needs a bit of work but it is a greatstart
[07:57] <jsgotangco> it relates well to laptop hardware support as well
[07:57] <froud> yep
[07:57] <jsgotangco> so far good coverage
[07:58] <froud> jsgotangco: we have good news
[07:58] <jsgotangco> oh yeah?
[07:58] <froud> jsgotangco: jiyuu0 is coming around to work insvn
[07:58] <jsgotangco> whoa
[07:58] <jsgotangco> that is good news
[07:58] <froud> and jjesse is gonna get a commiter account
[07:58] <d3vic3> sweet
[07:58] <froud> hopefully jeff will to
[07:59] <jsgotangco> did you ask james for the commit access?
[07:59] <froud> d3vic3: now we need three patches of significance from you and we can get you an account too
[07:59] <froud> jsgotangco: not yet, it was late
[07:59] <froud> but  they will mail enrico
[07:59] <froud> jsgotangco: is enrico down there?
[08:00] <froud> I keep missinghime
[08:00] <d3vic3> froud, I see
[08:00] <jsgotangco> no i would have seen him if he was here i guess
[08:00] <froud> jsgotangco: yeah, did you catch hypatia
[08:01] <jsgotangco> yeah i did she's nice
[08:01] <hypatia> last I heard of enrico was jdub telling me he has a new job and is busy.
[08:01] <jsgotangco> such a tall lady too
[08:01] <froud> yeah he is work at ARPA
[08:01] <froud> jsgotangco: aw that's just because you are so short
[08:01] <froud> :-)
[08:01] <hypatia> jsgotangco: I was really tired last night. Hope to be more alive on Saturday.
[08:01] <hypatia> froud: To me, the world is short.
[08:02] <jsgotangco> doh..what do you expect...im asian 6" asians are a rarity
[08:02] <froud> hmmm, froud likes em tall :-)
[08:02] <froud> jsgotangco: lol
[08:02] <jsgotangco> 6' sorry
[08:02] <hypatia> Kinnison: either works.
[08:02] <froud> hey the gay Englishman speaks
[08:02] <jsgotangco> haha
[08:03] <Kinnison> froud: Nice to know that my gender preference is my most memorable trait
[08:03] <Kinnison> :-)
[08:03] <froud> Kinnison: you still in denial about doing docs
[08:03] <froud> Kinnison: we love you
[08:03] <hypatia> Kinnison: to me your most memorable trait is your lj username.
[08:03] <hypatia> There's something about the fish...
[08:03] <froud> Kinnison: you are part of the funiture
[08:04] <froud> fish and chips
[08:04] <froud> now where is the vinogar
[08:05] <froud> jsgotangco: if you see mako tell him he rocks
[08:05] <froud> jsgotangco: he will understand
[08:05] <jsgotangco> he's kinda stoned at the moment at the fridge
[08:06] <Kinnison> hypatia: But I don't post on LJ these days
[08:06] <froud> that sounds like the right person
[08:06] <hypatia> Kinnison: I see you comment in daniels's journal every so often.
[08:06] <hypatia> Kinnison: so I still get fish exposure.
[08:07] <Kinnison> Heh
[08:07] <Kinnison> I run an ISP called 'Pepperfish'
[08:07] <froud> Ah ha
[08:07] <Kinnison> (why Pepperfish? Well, we're not entirely sure)
[08:07] <froud> is it any good
[08:07] <hypatia> I mean "the other daniels" of course.
[08:07] <froud> I may be looking for some hosting
[08:08] <froud> Kinnison: I need a place to test an Apache Tomcat, Cocoon thing called Lenya
[08:08] <Kinnison> Well, our customers seem happy :-)
[08:08] <Kinnison> Of course, we don't run Apache
[08:08] <Kinnison> which would kinda scupper that plan
[08:09] <froud> yep but what about Tomcat
[08:09] <Kinnison> Nup, no Java
[08:09] <Kinnison> Refuse to run Java
[08:09] <Kinnison> Corporate decision
[08:09] <froud> why it is very secure
[08:09] <Kinnison> Java == huge bloaty pile of shite
[08:10] <Kinnison> resource hungry, doesn't play nicely with other people
[08:10] <Kinnison> generally a bad idea on a shared hosting platform
[08:10] <froud> Kinnison: I am talking dedicated hosting
[08:10] <Kinnison> Oh, Pepperfish is a shared hosting platform
[08:11] <froud> no way Ubuntu doc lenya could be on a shared system
[08:11] <Kinnison> We're not a colo service
[08:11] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: because you suck
[08:11] <froud> Burgundavia: you are crossingover, I think john edwards has been a bit to active
[08:11] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: mmmm fishy
[08:11] <Burgundavia> I think I remember now
[08:12] <Burgundavia> my brother wanted me to burn some stuff for his XP migration
[08:12] <Burgundavia> unfortunately that migration was not to Ubuntu
[08:12] <froud> anyone taken a look at longhorn
[08:12] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:12] <Burgundavia> it sucks balls
[08:12] <froud> not sure that databse file sys is a good idea
[08:12] <Burgundavia> scroll bars on menus
[08:12] <Burgundavia> I don't think I really need to say more
[08:13] <froud> and the new file format ala PDF
[08:13] <froud> when will microsoft stop
[08:13] <Burgundavia> WinFS is dead
[08:13] <Burgundavia> not going to be in Longhorn
[08:13] <jsgotangco> Metro?
[08:13] <froud> Oh good
[08:14] <Burgundavia> actually, WinFS used to be an idea called Cairo, which was to be part of 95
[08:14] <Burgundavia> Metro is shite and is hopefully dead in the water
[08:14] <froud> Hows the help sys
[08:14] <froud> bubles everywhere
[08:14] <froud> a bit to soapy
[08:15] <Burgundavia> haven't played with it that much
[08:15] <Burgundavia> too many other things to do
[08:15] <froud> yeah like built linux :-)
[08:15] <Burgundavia> and write my talk, etc.
[08:15] <froud> Oh yeah hows that going
[08:15] <jsgotangco> froud, you seem to be free lately
[08:16] <froud> jsgotangco:  no just woke up
[08:16] <jsgotangco> ahh right
[08:16] <Burgundavia> was good, until I discovered today that my talk is supposed to be 1 1/2 hours, not 1/2 hour
[08:16] <jsgotangco> i keep remembering the time zones
[08:16] <froud> got lots of dealines
[08:16] <jsgotangco> i mean i keep forgetting
[08:16] <froud> well talk for 1/2 and twiddle thumbs for 1
[08:17] <froud> jsgotangco: got any wings
[08:17] <froud> Burgundavia: see ya
[08:17] <Burgundavia> night/day all
[08:17] <froud> sweet dreams
[08:17] <froud> Cant believe he is actuallygoing to sleep, he never does that
[08:18] <froud> Hey dudes I have braille working
[08:18] <froud> but only US braille dialect
[08:18] <froud> jeeze can you believe there are different dialects of braille
[08:18] <froud> UK braille is not the same as US
[08:19] <froud> dunno how FR and DE braille looks
[08:19] <froud> so dunno how I am gonna get the loco docs transcribed to braille
[08:20] <froud> think if we put up US braille docs somebody will come along and find a solution for the braille dialects?
[08:21] <froud> Well meetings this morning. Love you all, c ya
[08:25] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[08:26] <jsgotangco> that's something to consider
[08:26] <jsgotangco> im going to the the other bof
[02:27] <jsgotangco> hmmmm
[02:29] <jiyuu0> finished the ubuntuguide.org add-on cd
[02:30] <jiyuu0> now waiting for people who can host it
[02:37] <jsgotangco> wow its now a CD
[02:38] <jiyuu0> yub :)
[02:38] <mdke> hi dudes
[02:38] <jiyuu0> my prob here is i can't host at my server
[02:38] <jiyuu0> the bandwidth can't take it
[02:39] <jiyuu0> ubuntu-5.04-add-on-2005-04-28.iso (332.1MB)
[02:39] <jiyuu0> ubuntu-5.04-add-on-2005-04-28.iso.md5 (68 bytes)
[02:39] <mdke> what's on the cd?
[02:40] <jiyuu0> everything that is mentioned in ubuntuguide.org
[02:40] <jiyuu0> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=30147
[02:40] <jiyuu0> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/temp
[02:40] <mdke> am checking it out
[02:41] <jiyuu0> i need to get it uploaded to a server
[02:41] <jiyuu0> over a 512k broadband
[02:41] <jiyuu0> don't know how long going to take
[02:41] <mdke> *grins*
[02:41] <mdke> about 3 hours i guess
[02:42] <jiyuu0> hope so
[02:42] <jsgotangco> its that big?
[02:42] <jsgotangco> WOW
[02:43] <mdke> juoh actually for 330 megs, probably about an hour and a half
[02:43] <jiyuu0> today the're's openoffice update
[02:43] <jiyuu0> that's why big
[02:45] <jsgotangco> whoa i didnt know that
[02:46] <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, do you reckon the guide will be in svn soon?
[02:46] <jiyuu0> 8th next month i'll start workin on it
[02:46] <jsgotangco> rad
[02:46] <jiyuu0> i need to settle a few more things with ubuntuguide.org
[02:47] <jsgotangco> there's no rush
[02:47] <jsgotangco> i gotta start doing more stuff soon
[02:48] <jiyuu0> cool :)
[02:48] <jsgotangco> ah no updates
[02:48] <jsgotangco> duh..im doing 2 more bofs tommorow
[02:48] <mdke> how is it going jsgotangco ?
[02:48] <jsgotangco> oh we're just here in the room some guys are playing mao outside
[02:49] <jsgotangco> its almost 11pm here
[02:49] <mdke> mao?
[02:49] <jsgotangco> we're having a key signing tommorow
[02:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:49] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[02:49] <mdke> what is mao?
[02:49] <jsgotangco> ask Kinnison, he's the Mao master
[02:50] <jsgotangco> http://www.pagat.com/eights/mao.html
[02:50] <jsgotangco> but dont bother
[02:51] <mdke> oh its cards
[02:51] <mdke> i thought it was some weird sport
[02:51] <jsgotangco> i wanna watch rugby
[02:51] <mdke> *cough* cricket *cough*
[02:52] <jsgotangco> bahhh rugby man...like wwe and boxing combined
[02:52] <mdke> rugby is a decent sport
[02:52] <mdke> but its not an art like cricket :)
[02:52] <jsgotangco> i dont understand cricket either
[02:52] <jsgotangco> are you at school?
[02:52] <mdke> no, home
[02:52] <mdke> just had a class in the morning
[02:53] <jsgotangco> mdke, you need me to do some stuff relating to rosetta? im not that loaded tommorow
[02:53] <mdke> i don't know what is on
[02:53] <mdke> you didn't see anything about getting the docs in language-packs did you?
[02:53] <jsgotangco> i didnt
[02:54] <jsgotangco> well there's no schedule yet anyway
[02:54] <mdke> np
[02:54] <jsgotangco> i gotta ask carlos some stuff anyway tommorow
[02:55] <jsgotangco> mdke, check this out
[02:55] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:55] <mdke> so is mao better than poker? surely you should be playing poker
[02:55] <jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuNations
[02:55] <jsgotangco> of course mao is better but im no expert im got creamed at mao
[02:55] <jsgotangco> check out that link hehe
[02:56] <mdke> very interesting
[02:57] <jsgotangco> from Nauru or the Vatican
[02:57] <jsgotangco> you reckon we can get the pope to represent
[02:57] <jsgotangco> haha
[02:57] <mdke> its essentially like a ubuntu summer camp?
[02:57] <jsgotangco> i dunno it would probably be like woodstock if mako's going to head it
[02:57] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:58] <mdke> i'm just gonna go watch a bit of TV
[02:58] <jsgotangco> ok im probably going up later
[02:59] <mdke> i'll probably be here when you get up
[03:00] <jsgotangco> great let's check out the schedule by then so i can plan out the day
[03:00] <jsgotangco> i expect mary to be around on saturday though
[03:00] <mdke> what time do you get up?
[03:00] <jsgotangco> hmmm we start here around 9am sydney time
[03:01] <mdke> that is utf +8?
[03:01] <jsgotangco> let me check that on UTC
[03:01] <mdke> *laughs*
[03:01] <mdke> utf
[03:01] <mdke> my god
[03:02] <jsgotangco> wat
[03:02] <jsgotangco> i didnt get that
[03:03] <mdke> Be BaCk LaTeR
[04:49] <jiyuu0> any good bittorent tracker server?
[04:51] <jiyuu0> nver done it b4
[09:16] <jiyuu0> i've burst my bandwidth quota
[09:22] <Burgundavia> oops
[09:23] <jiyuu0> the whole site went down
[09:23] <jiyuu0> now i've to disable all of it first
[10:00] <mkde> does anyone know if the releasenotes doc is on the website?