[05:06] <socket-> Hey all, any idea why my cloud-init config is not creating the ssh_host keys for me in this CFT? https://imgur.com/a/5t86kS7
[05:07] <socket-> instead it does the normal random generation at the start up... Generating public/private ecdsa key pair. Your identification has been saved in /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key. Your public key has been saved in /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key.pub. The key fingerprint is: SHA256:sILmAwj+6f1qIJTvw0R1QGegrX75uY+q9bc5yLIniRI root@ip-10-0-1-129
[05:09] <socket-> https://apaste.info/X8x0
[12:44] <rharper> socket-: the cc_ssh module will write host keys if you provide them in user data,   you'll need to lay out your config, like so https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#host-keys
[12:45] <rharper> socket-: if are are including the host keys in the expected form and it's not writing them out, please file a bug and include the tarball output from cloud-init collect-logs
[16:50] <socket-> Hmm, so i think the problem is that I am trying to use cloud-init code in 'AWS::CloudFormation::Init:'. I think i need to figure out where is this AMI the cloud-init cofig is stored and add the ssh stuff there
[16:51] <socket-> AWS::CloudFormation::Init only supports packages, groups, users, sources, files, commands and services
[16:56] <rharper> huh
[17:09] <socket-> im saying cloud-init is different from cloudformation init.  I thought one just called the other, but it only has a subset of the commands
[17:11] <socket-> So it looks like I can pass a cloud-config in the EC2 instances userdata like you said.  I currently have shell code being passed to the user data. Do you know if they can be mixed, or if i have to change all the shell code to be cloud-config runcmds?
[17:18] <socket-> rharper: do you know if i can do something like this? https://apaste.info/EteD
[17:43] <Odd_Bloke> socket-: You would either need to convert your shell script to a runcmd stanza (which can be strings, so that's not impossible by any means), or you'd need to look at multipart MIME user-data.  (Let me look up references for those options now.)
[17:44] <Odd_Bloke> runcmd documentation is https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#runcmd, MIME multipart is https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/format.html#mime-multi-part-archive.
[18:02] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: socket-  cloud-init/tools/make-mime.py is quite useful here for constructing a multi-part mime
[18:05] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: Hmm, seems like we should probably point to that instead of the inline helper script.
[18:10] <Odd_Bloke> I'll fix that now.
[18:28] <socket-> so iv learned some more. AWS user data allows only one content type. You can make this content type be multipart/mixed though.  So iv been testing out a simple mix https://apaste.info/c4HT
[18:29] <socket-> I havent got it working yet, but so far i can confirm that cloud-init-output says it ran the final_modules, and also the shell code at the bottom was run, and the file was created
[18:29] <socket-> but none of the packages are being installed, its like cloud-init is skipping that section
[18:31] <Odd_Bloke> socket-: Can you pastebin what your latest config looks like?
[18:31] <socket-> Odd_Bloke: lol thanks just saw your message
[18:31] <socket-> https://apaste.info/c4HT
[18:32] <socket-> thats what im sending to aws userdata
[18:33] <socket-> https://apaste.info/WtST
[18:34] <socket-> ^ is the cloud-config.txt attachment aws uploads
[18:36] <Odd_Bloke> socket-: What does `cloud-init query -a` give you?
[18:37] <socket-> lots of meta data about the instance
[18:37] <socket-> do you wanna see the whole thing?
[18:38] <socket-> Odd_Bloke: https://apaste.info/GYGV
[18:39] <socket-> i removed the crypto but the rest is intact
[18:41] <Odd_Bloke> OK, I was hoping that would display the user-data after we'd unpacked it, so that didn't help. :p
[18:41] <Odd_Bloke> socket-: Do you have any WARN lines in /var/log/cloud-init.log?
[18:42] <socket-> i think it just writes 2 files to disk, the cloud-init.txt and userdata.txt
[18:42] <socket-> so i have access to both of those
[18:45] <socket-> checking
[18:46] <socket-> nothing for grep -i warn /var/log/cloud-init.log
[18:51] <socket-> Odd_Bloke: if i take out cloud_final_modules ... then it installs the packages defined
[18:51] <socket-> but it doesn't run the shell script
[19:17] <Odd_Bloke> socket-: Could you try using make-mime.py to create your input file?  That b64 encodes stuff, which might work if there's something strange about the input that's breaking things?
[19:25] <socket-> havent tried that yet, but in my latest test I noticed..
[19:25] <socket-> 2020-04-28 19:22:20,990 - __init__.py[WARNING]: Unhandled unknown content-type (text/plain) userdata: 'b'MIME-Version: 1.0'...'
[19:26] <socket-> when using https://apaste.info/Ji5n
[19:31] <socket->  python mime.py -a user.txt ... ValueError: not enough values to unpack (expected 2, got 1)
[19:31] <socket-> whats the syntax
[20:43] <Odd_Bloke> socket-: filename:mimetype (where mimetype will be cloud-config for one and x-shellscript for the other)
[20:43] <Odd_Bloke> Something like `./tools/make-mime.py -a config.yaml:cloud-config -a script.sh:x-shellscript`
[21:14] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Would really appreciate your review on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/335, I put that together in the background while I was lurking in that meeting earlier.
[21:14] <Odd_Bloke> (Obviously has a couple of TODOs, but would like to know how that looks as a technical schema as far as you're concerned.)
[21:15] <Odd_Bloke> (And I'd like to know what testing you generally do, too. :)
[21:23] <blackboxsw> will do Odd_Bloke
[21:26] <blackboxsw> haha nice Odd_Bloke
[21:26] <blackboxsw> I thought I heard a bit of typing then :)
[21:26] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: rharper rick_h just drew up an initial spec for review for cloud-init a json schema artifact
[21:32] <rharper> blackboxsw: nice
[21:40] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: couple of minor comments on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/335/files
[21:41] <blackboxsw> rharper: Odd_Bloke I think we have to think a bit about how we handle values that come in from /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/335/files#r416940582
[21:51] <rharper> blackboxsw: I don't think so, args is not set via user-data , no ?
[21:51] <rharper> if you wrote your own etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/XXX file *and* you override the modules_stage list, *and* you pass args on that
[21:55] <blackboxsw> rharper: I think args is only set via /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/XXX by overriding the modules_list and providing - <config_name> <frequency>   <n-args>
[21:57] <rharper> right
[21:57] <rharper> you can provide user-data that overrides the list, but it's really awkward to use
[21:57] <rharper> I'd rather log deprecated and avoid exposing it more
[22:00] <blackboxsw> yeah it feels gross/wrong.
[22:00] <blackboxsw> and undocumented
[22:35] <blackboxsw> rharper: Odd_Bloke here's the undocumented image-based module config  I was talking about https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/qjkVYVq5Vg/
[22:35] <blackboxsw> provide a list for the config module and you'd have to know the specifics of how that module reacts to additional args
[22:36] <blackboxsw> so yeah we can chalk up an item to deprecate that


[14:09] <hatch> kadams54: hey get my email this morning?
[14:09] <kadams54> Yeah, looking things over right now
[14:09] <hatch> great thanks
[14:10] <hatch> the fix ended up being rather extensive lol
[14:11] <hatch> kadams54: I'm going to take this branch and work on the services side now
[14:11] <kadams54> OK
[14:25] <kadams54> hatch: when you have a few minutes, I'd like to talk over the changes.
[14:31] <hatch> yeah I'm good
[14:31] <hatch> standup?
[14:32] <hatch> ^ kadams54
[14:32] <kadams54> yup
[14:50] <rick_h_> jujugui call in 10 please kanban
[14:50] <hatch> jujugui hi mom
[15:37] <kadams54> hatch: all changes are now pushed to the PR
[15:37] <kadams54> Will get the tests working and then (hopefully) land this puppy.
[15:38] <hatch> thanks
[15:58] <hatch> kadams54: did you want to rebase your branch to get it down to less commits?
[15:59] <kadams54> That'll be the last step before landing.
[15:59] <kadams54> Once I get the tests passing.
[15:59] <hatch> ok I'll make sure that my stuff can be added on after
[15:59] <hatch> just lemme know if you make any code changes :)
[16:08] <kadams54> hatch: just changes to test code
[16:09] <kadams54> Which should be all fixed now. *fingers crossed*
[16:12] <hatch>  haha nice
[16:12] <hatch> kadams54: without any changes the 'highlight' and 'fade' work for the source service but any related stuff doesn't work
[16:13] <hatch> darn heh
[16:13] <hatch> was hoping for better results by default
[16:13] <kadams54> I'm actually surprised anything works, so it's glass half full for me.
[16:16] <kadams54> Just pushed test fixes, so hopefully it'll have a green light in about 20 minutes.
[16:18] <hatch> great
[16:18] <hatch> kadams54: there is also a css bug in the tooltip when deploying a bundle, it's shifted to the left
[16:19] <hatch> this likely happened when I did the header changes to make the header tooltip notificatiosn line up
[16:19] <hatch> maybe that'll be a simple fix you can do as a driveby with the other css stuff
[16:23] <kadams54> hatch: Yeah, I can take a look as I'm updating the icon.
[16:23] <kadams54> guihelp: Need another QA on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/631
[16:24] <hatch> thanks
[16:24] <rick_h_> hatch: you did the first pass can you make sure the issues are all better?
[16:24] <hatch> yeah I already have locally and we did a shared qa
[16:24] <hatch> but we both have been in here a while :)
[16:25] <kadams54> This is complex enough that I want a fresh set of eyes on it.
[16:25] <rick_h_> kadams54: hatch rgr
[16:26] <rick_h_> Makyo: you were a test away from  your branch up for review, can you qa while you get reviews?
[16:26] <Makyo> rick_h_, yep
[16:26] <rick_h_> ty
[16:27] <rick_h_> fabrice: rather than the cookie one can you look at the clicking on deploy card next?
[16:28] <rick_h_> fabrice: updated the board to reflect the priority/new card there if that's ok?
[16:31] <hatch> kadams54:  I created the cards for your next tasks
[16:31] <kadams54> Thanks
[16:31] <hatch> I THINK this is everythinig
[16:31] <hatch> (famous last words)
[16:31] <hatch> lol
[16:43] <kadams54> luca__: any updates on the highlight icon SVG -> PNG?
[16:43] <luca__> kadams54: not yet, sorry. Give me a sec.
[16:44] <hatch> luca__: YO
[16:44] <hatch> I have a problem with your service spec
[16:44] <luca__> :(
[16:44] <hatch> wait no I don't
[16:44] <hatch> ignore me
[16:44] <hatch> I just figured it out
[16:44] <hatch> too many names for things lol
[16:45] <hatch> you keep doin good things :)
[16:48] <rick_h_> luca__: kadams54 is asking about the highlight icon? ^
[16:48] <luca__> otp
[17:14] <hatch> :/
[17:15] <hatch> having multiple hidden/shown in the canvas is seriously messing things up :)
[17:21] <hatch> kadams54: got a few minutes to be a sounding board?
[17:24] <kadams54> hatch: yeah
[17:24] <hatch> ok joining standup
[17:28] <hatch> Makyo: you able to hop into standup?
[17:29] <hatch> rick_h_: maybe you will know, able to hop into standup?
[17:30] <hatch> nm Makyo joined
[18:05] <hatch> Makyo: were you able to qa 631?
[18:09] <Makyo> hatch, no, not yet, I'm still struggling through mine.
[18:14] <hatch> ahh ok np
[18:41] <kadams54> jujugui: need reviews and QA on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/633
[18:41] <hatch> on it
[18:41] <kadams54> hatch, rick_h_, Makyo: that's the toggling for highlight buttons, so that only one can be active at a time.
[18:58] <hatch> kadams54: review and qa done - just need one more for both brancheds
[19:13] <hatch> jujugui - I know everyone is busy but could we get another QA on 631 and a review on 633?
[19:14] <Makyo> On it
[19:14] <Makyo> I need out of test hell.
[19:14] <hatch> haha u rock
[19:19] <Makyo> hatch, kadams54 just to confirm, 631 doesn't affect service view?
[19:19] <hatch> orrect it's very broken
[19:19] <hatch> :)
[19:19] <Makyo> Assuming that's fixed later?
[19:19] <hatch> yup in my current local branch
[19:20] <hatch> just need to get 633 and 631 landed so I can finalize my branches code
[19:41] <hatch> kadams54: so looks like we can ship 631 now
[19:41] <kadams54> Yay
[19:41] <hatch> odly enough I no longer get user icons in github
[19:41] <hatch> ahh had to clear the cache
[19:42] <kadams54> Shipped
[19:43] <hatch> awesome
[19:45] <kadams54> Gotta switch locations, be back shortly.
[19:56] <hatch> jujugui one more review required - pretty small, qa already done https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/633
[19:58] <Makyo> hatch, kadams54 +1
[19:58] <hatch> awesommmmmme
[19:58] <hatch> thanks for clearing these Makyo
[19:59] <hatch> can you +1 on gh?
[19:59] <kadams54> Woot woot.
[19:59] <hatch> awesome so....
[20:01] <hatch> kadams54: so I think the only thing else for this (besides my cards) is the tooltip thing I mentioned
[20:02] <kadams54> Yeah, looking into that.
[20:36] <hazmat> why does quickstart try to bootstrap a running environment?
[20:36] <hatch> hmm I've never seen that
[20:37] <hatch> but it has been a while
[20:38] <hazmat> looks like it always trys to bootstrap which is inane
[20:39] <hatch> hmm odd maybe I've just never noticed :)
[20:39]  * hazmat files a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-quickstart/+bug/1387867
[20:40] <mup> Bug #1387867: always tries to bootstrap .. check the api endpoint instead <juju-quickstart:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387867>
[20:42] <hatch> thanks
[20:49] <hatch> kadams54:  I found another bug
[20:49] <kadams54> Gah
[20:49] <hatch> maybe you can work on this one
[20:50] <kadams54> K
[20:50] <hatch> well, can you try and reproduce it first heh
[20:50] <hatch> it is...
[20:50] <hatch> load up the gui so it lands on the service view and charmbrowser on initial load
[20:50] <hatch> deploy
[20:50] <hatch> the mongodb bungle
[20:50] <hatch> click to highlight mongosvr
[20:50] <hatch> configsvr*
[20:50] <hatch> switch to mb
[20:50] <hatch> mv*
[20:50] <hatch> no machines are hidden
[20:51] <hatch> you will need to add this code to models.js:1424
[20:51] <hatch>         if (!machine.units) {
[20:51] <hatch>           // If the machine view hasn't been opened yet then there won't be a
[20:51] <hatch>           // units collection on the machines.
[20:51] <hatch>           return;
[20:51] <hatch>         }
[20:51] <kadams54> K
[20:51] <hatch> to avoid it from falling over
[20:54] <kadams54> I'll make a card and get on it.
[20:55] <hatch> thanks
[20:55] <hatch> I really hope this isn't yet another oddity
[21:03] <hatch> Makyo: hey - we don't have a 'hide relation line' method?
[21:03] <hatch> we have show and fade but no hide?
[21:04] <hatch> I can just copy the other methods but I thought we had something to do this already
[21:05] <hazmat> is there a config option yet to display icons for non official charms?
[21:05] <Makyo> hatch, no, nothing in place
[21:07] <hatch> allllllllrighty
[21:19] <hatch> Makyo: just to confirm - in a relation topology d.source is the 'near' and d.target is the 'far' ? There is a bug where it's showing relation lines where the 'far' is hidden so I'm just wondering if this terminology is consistant
[21:19] <hatch> it's around line 770 in topology/relation.js
[21:19] <hatch> it appears to be so
[21:20] <Makyo> It shooould be?
[21:20] <hatch> heh ok I'll asume so as well :)
[21:23] <hatch> d3 is pretty awesome even if it's api is horrible ;)
[21:33] <hatch> ahhhhh just rebased in develop and it broke it!
[21:33] <hatch> blargggg
[21:35] <hatch> kadams54: so the branch which did the toggle thing actually has these events propogate everywhere
[21:35] <hatch> we need to use method calls instead of events
[21:35] <kadams54> Why?
[21:37] <hatch> kadams54: actually I was able to fix it reordering the events
[21:37] <hatch> it was highlighting then unhighlighting
[21:37] <hatch> hah
[21:37] <hatch> by switching them around it works
[21:37] <kadams54> I can make it less spammy
[21:37] <kadams54> Great
[21:38] <hatch> phew
[21:44] <hatch> Makyo: FYI target is not always 'far'
[21:44] <hatch> :'(
[21:45] <Makyo> :/
[21:55] <hatch> sweet I got all the functionalities down
[21:55] <hatch> kadams54: any luck tracking down that bug?
[21:56] <kadams54> Not yet. My work time's been sporadic with dinner time, but the family is off to dance class now so I now have some quality bug squashing time.
[21:56] <hatch> ohh right it'a past your EOD
[21:56] <hatch> well you could just leave it for me
[21:57] <hatch> Now that I have this functionality done I need to write tests
[21:58] <hatch> rick_h_: are you around tonight?
[22:00] <kadams54> hatch: It's no problem.
[22:02] <hatch> jujugui if anyone wants to do some preemptive qa work on this added services stuff it would be appreciated https://github.com/hatched/juju-gui/tree/canvas-fade
[22:03] <Makyo> On it
[22:03] <hatch> Makyo: thanks - the only currently known bug is the one I mentioned to kadams54 at 14:50 in the scrollback
[22:04] <hatch> and now to write tests....OOOOBOY!!!
[22:05] <hatch> Makyo: also I seem to have re-introduced the error when trying to hide/fade ghost services :/
[22:05] <hatch> will look at that now
[22:10] <hatch> ok that's being done as a follow-up
[22:10] <hatch> moving the card back
[22:16] <kadams54> hatch: OK, I think I figured out what the bug is.
[22:16] <hatch> ok shoot
[22:16] <kadams54> It's actually the line you had me add at 1424 in models.js :-)
[22:16] <kadams54> if (!machine.units)
[22:16] <kadams54> machine.units isn't set in the DB
[22:16] <kadams54> We set it by making a call to db.units as part of render()
[22:18] <hatch> sooooooooo howdowefixit?
[22:18] <kadams54> _updateMachineWithUnitData, machine-view-panel.js, line 1409
[22:19] <kadams54> I think setMVVisibility needs to be moved out to the DB or a util method
[22:19] <hatch> so on render it should populate that unit data with the visibility statuses
[22:19] <kadams54> It will need to make a similar query to db.units first and then do the unit check
[22:19] <hatch> well setmv is in the db
[22:19] <kadams54> It's in MachineList
[22:19] <kadams54> I think?
[22:20] <kadams54> Yeah.
[22:20] <hatch> oh yeah
[22:20] <hatch> but that's ok
[22:20] <hatch> if we have the db we can access the machone list
[22:20] <hatch> but you're suggesting updating the machines with the unit data before we open the mv?
[22:20] <kadams54> No
[22:21] <kadams54> I'm saying setMVVisibility just needs to do this:
[22:21] <kadams54> var units = db.units.filterByMachine(machine.id, true);
[22:21] <kadams54> if (!units) {
[22:21] <kadams54> ...
[22:21] <kadams54> Instead of just:
[22:21] <kadams54> if (!machine.units) {
[22:22] <kadams54> That make sense?
[22:22] <hatch> nope
[22:22] <hatch> but I can try it
[22:22] <hatch> lol
[22:22] <hatch> sec
[22:23] <kadams54> We can't count on the internal list (machine.units) being initialized when setMVVisibility is called
[22:23] <kadams54> We need to go back to the DB (db.units.filterByMachine()) instead
[22:23] <hatch> oh wait I can't, now I see why you want it on the db
[22:23] <hatch> heh
[22:23] <hatch> ohhh
[22:24] <hatch> so you're saying we need to update the 'real' units
[22:24] <kadams54> Yes
[22:24] <kadams54> Those "real" units will get populated into machine.units at a later point
[22:25] <hatch> so does it make sense to do that OR do we run the update on mv load?
[22:25] <hatch> I think your idea is better
[22:25] <kadams54> Also: lines 1427-1432 in models.js is some crazy shit
[22:25] <hatch> yeah don't go there
[22:25] <kadams54> nested some() calls
[22:25] <hatch> it's dangerous
[22:25] <hatch> therebedragons
[22:26] <kadams54> #
[22:26] <kadams54> #therebedragons
[22:26] <hatch> truth
[22:26] <kadams54> Can you throw a comment on there?
[22:26] <hatch> no I don't remember what it does
[22:26] <kadams54> lol
[22:26] <hatch> lol!!
[22:26] <hatch> jk yeah I can
[22:27] <kadams54> kk, I gotta run again, but will check in again in about an hour
[22:27] <hatch> thanks!
[22:27] <hatch> cya
[23:48] <rick_h_> hatch: around what's up?


[18:12] <jrwren> cmaloney: you didn't post the actual error message in your email.
[18:13] <cmaloney> I don't have the actual error message
[18:14] <cmaloney> was a "hey, if you know anyone who has run PostgreSQL under Ubuntu..."
[18:15] <jrwren> oh, lul, well... there isn't enough info to be helpful.
[18:18] <jrwren> cmaloney: normally you don't have to touch any of that, but if they have an excessive number of tables (thousands) or are doing something else with FDW or other postgresql abuse, then it may be a prob.
[18:18] <cmaloney> how about records, because this has a boatload of records
[18:18] <cmaloney> I'll see if I can get the error message
[18:20] <jrwren> nope.
[18:20] <cmaloney> Will post follow-up when I have something
[18:20] <jrwren> can have many billions of records in single or multiple tables and the open file count can still be very small.
[18:20] <cmaloney> thx for at least looking at it. :)
[18:21] <jrwren> YW
[18:48] <cmaloney> jrwren: Added log messages
[18:51] <jrwren> oh wow. they are down. that sucks.
[22:16] <jrwren> whoa!
[22:16] <jrwren> $ uptime 22:16:17 up 966 days, 33 min,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00


[05:38] <Wolfeyes> morning everyone
[07:08] <gremble> Good morning
[07:17] <bushtech> morning gremble
[07:17] <gremble> How are you bushtech?
[07:18] <bushtech> great! getting a bit of rain. you?
[07:20] <gremble> I feel the same. Trying to figure out some work before I go table-top gaming
[07:21] <bushtech> table-top gaming? electronic?
[07:24] <gremble> Old-fashioned boardgames. Catan, etc. I want to try to think of the other games that we play, but literally all of the names have escaped me.
[07:24] <gremble> Munchkin is also one.
[07:25] <bushtech> Ah ok
[07:27] <gremble> I was so bleak when I discovered last night while trying to pirate my algebra textbook that it is actually so old that it is in the public domain
[07:27] <gremble> and I bought it with money >.>
[07:33] <bushtech> bummer
[07:39] <gremble> Good morning kulelu88
[07:45] <kulelu88> morning gremble
[07:45] <kulelu88> howzit?
[07:45] <gremble> Did you figure out your version control?
[07:45] <gremble> Still that todo list app?
[07:46] <kulelu88> yeah, I am following a philosophy of minor complete changes per commit. So I target a small update, get it working, then commit
[07:46] <kulelu88> yep, thanks to chesedo it is a functional prototype
[07:47] <gremble> That's pretty cool :P
[07:49] <kulelu88> gotta brush up on my jquery though :P you working on anything interesting?
[07:50] <gremble> Homomorphic subrings
[07:50] <gremble> Haha
[07:50] <gremble> Probably not that interesting
[07:50] <kulelu88> is it mathematical?
[07:51] <kulelu88> and code?
[07:51] <gremble> Yes. Abstract algebra. No code though
[07:51] <gremble> Exam prep.  So that is quite interesting
[07:51] <kulelu88> sounds like you've entered the plain of abstract theory :D *shudder*
[07:52] <gremble> Luckily I have another foot in reality with the applied math side of my course :P
[07:53] <kulelu88> I think someone else said they're doing CS/math/CE here, at UCT
[07:53] <gremble> Probably paddatrapper
[07:56] <bushtech> sounds like you're getting dangerously close to that area where the riemann hypothesis lurks
[07:57] <kulelu88> bushtech: were you lurking? :P
[07:57] <bushtech> nooooo
[07:57] <bushtech> danger danger
[07:58] <bushtech> mathematicians have gone mad and comitted suicide trying to prove that one
[07:59] <gremble> I have accepted that the Rienmann hypothesis will stay above my pay-grade
[07:59] <gremble> :P
[08:01] <kulelu88> how do I view the email address I used for commits of other projects in git? I cannot recall which email to use
[08:01] <bushtech> very good decision
[08:02] <kulelu88> in config
[08:02] <kulelu88> bushtech: waar in die veld bly jy?
[08:03] <bushtech> Vaalkopdam between Brits an Thaba
[08:04] <kulelu88> )_o
[08:04] <kulelu88> 0_o
[08:06] <kulelu88> made my first commit *joy*
[08:06] <bushtech> congrats
[08:09] <kulelu88> does anybody write unit tests here? I want to learn how to write automated tests for my code :D
[08:11] <gremble> https://qunitjs.com/ I have literally no idea, but this looks useful
[08:13] <kulelu88> ooh it's part of jquery suite as well. nice 1 gremble
[08:16] <gremble> It looks like it used to be.
[08:25] <kulelu88> noob question, but do you guys know 'exactly' what is happening here: https://pastee.org/vbz89 ? specifically, what is: function(e) doing?
[08:26] <kulelu88> okay I see it now :D
[08:27] <gremble> Good because JS just looks like a hodge-podge mess to me
[08:28] <kulelu88> it is complicated I agree. plus the magic breaks more than it works
[08:35] <gremble> http://lpaste.net/163300 I write boring stuff like this still :<
[08:40] <bushtech> gremble: would zero be more easily recognisable than naught
[08:40] <bushtech> just a thought
[08:43] <gremble> It doesn't particularly matter. That code has no use other than to demonstrate the use of map and the pattern recognition for the function digitToWord.
[08:43] <kulelu88> when I start seeing things like "::" and "->", I give up
[08:44] <gremble> "::" reads "has type of" and "->" is "to"
[08:44] <bushtech> ah ok your call
[08:45] <kulelu88> programming shouldn't have keywords that require you to 'remember' :D that's like memorizing proofs lol
[08:45] <gremble> bushtech, same with the "What?" at the bottom. Technically it is impossible to ever reach it, but the program doesn't pass the type checker if you don't have the _ bit.
[08:45] <gremble> it is like void and int from C/C++
[08:46] <gremble> Learning haskell has actually helped with my proof writing.
[08:46] <bushtech> yeah lol can drive you mad if you don't know something like put in the _
[08:52] <kulelu88> gremble: which one makes more sense to you: https://pastee.org/mpyen
[08:53] <kulelu88> syntax shouldn't be a blocking factor to writing code in 2016. try reading smalltalk or perl or lisp and I wonder what inspired those people to write that stuff
[08:55] <magespawn> good afternoon
[08:55] <magespawn> morning
[08:56] <gremble> Hey magespawn
[08:56] <magespawn> hi gremble
[08:56] <gremble> kulelu88, both are equivalent to me
[08:57] <kulelu88> I don't like format 1
[08:57] <gremble> I don't know smalltalk or perl, but lisp syntax is fine
[08:57] <gremble> I like lisp
[09:00] <kulelu88> are both formats equally readable to you? gremble
[09:01] <gremble> yup
[09:01] <kulelu88> interesting
[09:01] <gremble> project1 should be todotxttouch though
[09:03] <chesedo> morning all
[09:04] <chesedo> kulelu88: wanted to point you to txttodo.com but sees you have found it already
[09:04] <kulelu88> gremble: the + indicates the project name
[09:04] <kulelu88> chesedo: I am building a clone of it with a different format
[09:05] <gremble> kulelu88, Yes, but they both look like the same project since they contain the same data, except for that bit :P
[09:05] <chesedo> oh, `function(e)` are inline functions... and are probable passed the event that triggered them (hence the `e` to hold it)
[09:05] <gremble> Good morning chesedo
[09:05] <kulelu88> chesedo: I see that the actual 'work' happens below under /subscribes
[09:06] <chesedo> sorry should be http://todotxt.com/
[09:08] <chesedo> kulelu88: i have no idea... that `publish` code/plugin is new to me, although it does seem so
[09:09] <kulelu88> what do you think about these 2 formats chesedo : https://pastee.org/mpyen
[09:11] <gremble> On the topic of syntax; The syntax of a programming language serves a dual purpose. It is a constrained language and structure to enable automatic interpretation by a computer. So it must avoid any ambiguity. The second part is to let the writer reason about what it is saying in a very formal and rigorous way. Adding more structure makes it more complicated to write, with errors popping up if you are not careful, but it allows you to reason
[09:11] <gremble> better about correct code. Making code more terse allows it to be written quicker, but it takes away some of the explicit reasoning.
[09:11] <chesedo> kulelu88: 2nd... i would also stick with the format outlined in todotxt so that it is easier for users to switch to yours if they want
[09:13] <kulelu88> but why use "::" when I could just say "typeof" instead? same effect right? just a bit more readable
[09:13] <chesedo> ... like i already use a pomodoro on my phone that uses that format, then i can also edit my tasks on the pc with apps that use it too
[09:14] <chesedo> length(typeof) > length(::)
[09:14] <gremble> Because laziness. The more you use a certain thing, the shorter you make it.
[09:14] <chesedo> ... fewer key strokes
[09:15] <gremble> That is why we have symbols for things like (there exists) or (addition)
[09:20] <kulelu88> but that destroys readability unless you are vested into the code/language
[09:20] <kulelu88> I think even Go has it, something like: ::
[09:21] <kulelu88> but "+" is universal. "->" means different things in different languages.
[09:21] <kulelu88> chesedo: do you use any sync tool for your tasks? dropbox maybe?
[09:22] <chesedo> kulelu88: that app (Clockworks Tomato) does support Dropbox, but have not made use of it yet
[09:23] <kulelu88> chesedo: I actually want to change the format for my own personal use. I don't like the way dates are used in their current format
[09:28] <chesedo> hmm, ok kulelu88
[09:28]  * chesedo goes off for the weekend
[09:45] <gremble> kulelu88, That holds true for every language. Whether it is a programming language or a natural language.  Did you play in the rain? :P
[09:48] <bushtech> morning Kilos
[09:48] <Kilos> yip bit wet now
[09:48] <Kilos> hi bushtech
[09:49] <Kilos> 1 1/2 mm so far
[09:49] <Kilos> but bit cold on head
[09:49] <Kilos> iif wind starts blowing temps gonna dive
[09:49] <bushtech> 2.8mm here
[09:50] <gremble> It is not that cold here at the moment. If the wind starts blowing I might move my trees inside though.
[09:50] <gremble> I have few tropicals that won't do well if it gets too cold
[09:50] <Kilos> me too
[09:50] <Kilos> curry leaf and avocado
[09:51] <Kilos> normally they can maintain when temp above 5°c
[09:51] <gremble> Our Avo didn't even worry when it snowed, but I have three tropical fig trees that might balk since they are quite small
[09:52] <Kilos> i didngt know you get tropical figs
[09:53] <Kilos> there have been fig trees here for years but 3 years ago blackfrost almost wiped them out
[09:54] <bushtech> if the curry tree gets big enough, say 1.5m, it can get planted outside
[09:54] <gremble> Ficus Natalensis. I have two that I brought up from Durban in the beginning of the year. I don't think they have acclimatised yet.
[09:55] <Kilos> yeah but cant take cold wind
[09:55] <gremble> I also have a small Ficus abutilifolia, but that should be alright.
[09:55] <Kilos> mine is 5 years old and stays inna pot
[09:56] <gremble> Making it a bonsai? :P
[09:56] <Kilos> west and south winds after snow in lesotho are the killers
[09:56] <Kilos> nono big
[09:56] <Kilos> avo about 6ft already and 7 yeas old
[09:57] <Kilos> took 3 years to start making bark
[10:07] <gremble> Alright. I am off.  Anddid you find anything on the enrollment reader?
[12:39] <magespawn> hey whats up?
[12:40] <magespawn> nothing on that enrollment reader yet, the other reader seems fine as well, going to take one home and the windows computer at home to try them out
[12:41] <Wolfeyes> okay
[12:43] <magespawn> to see if that software still works with them or not
[12:46] <magespawn> brb just moving up to my office
[13:12] <magespawn> back
[13:16] <Wolfeyes> wb
[13:16] <Wolfeyes> lol
[13:16] <Wolfeyes> not for long
[13:23] <Wolfeyes> wb magespawn
[13:28] <Kilos> ai!
[13:30] <Wolfeyes> lol
[13:45] <magespawn> bbl home time chat later
[15:47] <Langjan> hi Kilos how you doing?
[15:47] <Langjan> and the guys, hi
[15:47] <Kilos> hi Langjan fine ty and you?
[15:47] <Langjan> also fine thks Kilos
[15:47] <Langjan> koud by julle?
[15:48] <Kilos> and nothing broken
[15:48] <Langjan> en reën?
[15:48] <Kilos> ja lelik koud
[15:48] <Kilos> 5mm
[15:48] <Langjan> no just a bit wet
[15:48] <Kilos> did that switch aarrive
[15:48] <Kilos> for the tannie
[15:49] <Langjan> you're lucky, we almost had 3
[15:49] <Kilos> haha just enough to make it cold
[15:49] <Langjan> yes it arrived on Monday I think, is working fine
[15:49] <Kilos> yay
[15:50] <Kilos> wonder what happened to the other one
[15:50] <Langjan> sy sukkel baie
[15:50] <Kilos> met wat
[15:50] <Langjan> yes strange thing
[15:50] <Langjan> om rekenaar te leer
[15:50] <Kilos> shame
[15:50] <Kilos> wees geduldig
[15:51] <Langjan> its a major thing to realise when you type an e-mail, you need to place the cursor where you must type the heading, in a different window
[15:51] <Langjan> ja ek probeer
[15:51] <Kilos> shame
[15:51] <Kilos> laat sy net aanhou oefin
[15:52] <Kilos> dit lyk nie reg nie
[15:52] <Kilos> oefen
[15:52] <Langjan> but she actually sent an e-mail today, WITH an attachment
[15:52] <Kilos> daai ding
[15:52] <Kilos> yay
[15:52] <Kilos> she will get there
[15:53] <Langjan> yes she is a vasbyter
[15:53] <Langjan> van helsdingens
[15:53] <Kilos> im glad i started 10 years ago
[15:53] <Langjan> jy ek ook
[15:53] <Langjan> ja
[15:53] <Kilos> wouldnt be able to start now
[15:54] <Langjan> ja man
[15:54] <Kilos> nee ek moeg nou
[15:54] <Langjan> maklik
[15:54] <Langjan> hoe gana dit met die pyne?
[15:54] <Kilos> die ouens maak my moeg met al die ekstra goed
[15:54] <Kilos> ek lewe man
[15:55] <Kilos> pyne is deel van die lewe
[15:55] <Langjan> dan nog alles wat ek breek...
[15:55] <Kilos> haha ja
[15:55] <Langjan> ai
[15:55] <Kilos> my goed het lank laas gebreek
[15:55] <Langjan> want jy werk nie op unity nie...ja ek weet
[15:55] <Kilos> hi chesedo and wb
[15:55] <Kilos> hahahaha
[15:56] <Langjan> lmga
[15:56] <Kilos> jy moet nog leer om kde te gebruik
[15:56] <Langjan> wie is wb?
[15:56] <Kilos> mazal was ook hrdkoppig soos jy
[15:56] <Kilos> nou se hy hoekom het hy nie vroer kde to gegaan nie
[15:57] <Kilos> welcome back
[15:57] <Langjan> het jy hom hardkoppigheid geleer?
[15:57] <Kilos> ek gebruik kde en sien waneer mense kom en gaan
[15:59] <Langjan> Is kde net 'n desktop? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE
[15:59] <Langjan> hoe sien jy wanneer mense kom en gaan? Met die helm gebore?
[16:00] <Langjan> Blitsbokke het mooi gespeel vandag
[16:01] <Langjan> jaag jy skape aan?
[16:01] <Kilos> nee man
[16:02] <Kilos> dit wys regs ek het show hosts enable
[16:02] <Kilos> en boetie nou op mxit ook
[16:02] <Kilos> ai!
[16:04] <Langjan> Ek dink jy moet Indonesia-toe gaan en met een van daai vlugtelingbote na Oz
[16:04] <Kilos> ja ek dink ook so
[16:04] <Kilos> maar water koud
[16:04] <Langjan> nee man, dis tropies
[16:05] <Kilos> daar by OZ is dit koud
[16:05] <Kilos> en bote sink nie naby indonesia nie
[16:05] <Langjan> in die tropiese noorde? no way
[16:06] <Kilos> o die noorde van OZ
[16:06] <Langjan> Indonesia is naby oz
[16:06] <Kilos> ja maar dan lang pad om te hitch hike
[16:06] <Langjan> sal gouer wees as om vir visa te wag...
[16:06] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:06] <Kilos> ja lyk so ne
[16:07] <Langjan> maar nee jy vlieg van Cairns na Melbourne, maklik en baie goedkoper as van SA af
[16:07] <Kilos> haha
[16:08] <Langjan> did you check the Paris sevens games today?
[16:10] <Kilos> nope
[16:11] <Langjan> forgot?
[16:11] <Kilos> was too busy counting rain drops
[16:11] <Langjan> or kde broken...
[16:12] <Kilos> yes i forgot
[16:12] <Kilos> kde doesnt break
[16:12] <Langjan> lmga
[16:12] <Langjan> it will if I use it
[16:12] <Kilos> well
[16:12] <Kilos> that can only be seen if you try it
[16:12] <Kilos> but you too stubborn
[16:13] <Langjan> nee man ek wil jou nie verkeerd bewys nie...
[16:13] <Langjan> lmga
[16:13] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:13] <Kilos> so cheeky for an old man
[16:13] <Langjan> can afford to be
[16:13] <Kilos> im always right
[16:13] <Kilos> except when im wrong
[16:14] <Langjan> except now
[16:14] <Langjan> lmga
[16:14] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:14] <Langjan> sa31, oz0
[16:14] <Kilos> im watching cheetahs /kings
[16:14] <Langjan> nz14 kenya12
[16:15] <Langjan> yes at least a SA team will win that one
[16:15] <Kilos> lmga
[16:15] <Langjan> unless its a draw
[16:15] <Langjan> like wp and the japs
[16:16] <Kilos> yeah what a shocker
[16:16] <Kilos> stormers played sleg
[16:16] <Langjan> now still lions  and blues, the sharks and jaguares
[16:16] <Langjan> then
[16:17] <Langjan> well the japs are playing good rugby
[16:17] <Kilos> ill be asleep before they all done
[16:17] <Kilos> will look results tomorrow
[16:18] <Langjan> score?
[16:18] <Langjan> cheetahs
[16:18] <Langjan> kings
[16:18] <Kilos> sec
[16:19] <Kilos> 27/13
[16:19] <Kilos> have to change glasses to see tv
[16:19] <Langjan> youre like those commentators, who is 27?
[16:19] <Kilos> cheetahs ahead
[16:19] <Kilos> patience man
[16:19] <Langjan> wakey wakey man
[16:20] <Kilos> changing glasses is hard work
[16:20] <Langjan> eish! gotta transfer the ice...
[16:21] <Kilos> lol
[16:21] <Langjan> ok Kilos  good to chat you, will be loving and leaving you
[16:21] <Kilos> look after you guys oomie
[16:21] <Langjan> lekker aand en naweek
[16:21] <Kilos> ty for the visit
[16:21] <Langjan> slaap lekker
[16:21] <Kilos> jy ook dankie
[16:21] <Langjan> my pleasure thks for the chat
[16:22] <Langjan> dankie
[16:45] <magespawn> good evening
[16:46] <gremble> welcome back magespawn
[16:47] <magespawn> ty been a while
[16:56] <Kilos> lol
[17:36] <magespawn> busy playing around with google cloud compute
[17:37] <paddatrapper> magespawn: Looks pretty cool
[17:37] <paddatrapper> What have you been using it for?
[17:38] <Kilos> ohi frogboots
[17:38] <magespawn> just signed up for their free usage to set up a nginx server to test NGINX Amplify that is beta
[17:38] <Kilos> hows you
[17:38] <paddatrapper> Hey Kilos. Goot thanks. You?
[17:38] <Kilos> good ty
[17:38] <paddatrapper> s/goot/good
[17:39] <Kilos> most typos i dont even notice
[17:40] <paddatrapper> Nor did I until I reread the message
[17:40] <paddatrapper> Then it annoyed me
[17:40] <Kilos> and i deal with peeps all over africa and bangladesh as well and some have different ways of pronouncing or spelling things so im learning to see what word fits there
[17:41] <Kilos> i didnt even notice the t
[17:41] <Kilos> hehe
[17:41] <magespawn> this is nginx amplify https://is.gd/WNbf14
[17:42] <Kilos> Maaz ask mazal have you tried systemback on a server yet
[17:42] <Maaz> Kilos: Okay, I'll ask mazal on freenode
[17:42] <paddatrapper> magespawn: Interesting, no more need to grep through loads of log files
[17:44] <magespawn> it looks like it is web based service so far, does not make any mention of a local installation
[17:46] <gremble> Google cloud platform looks cool. Just a pain that you need to set up an account with a card even if you just want to try it
[17:47] <magespawn> they always make a few busk of those who forget to cancel
[17:47] <magespawn> s/busk/bucks
[18:00] <Kilos> inetpro ?
[18:00] <Kilos> luister jy lions/blues
[18:01] <magespawn> interesting, eginx amplify pulls stats for the host machine and for nginx on that machine
[18:24] <magespawn> okay have a new nginx server running at http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[18:25] <magespawn> that was actually pretty straight forward
[19:08] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:08] <magespawn> good night Kilos


[00:24] <sirdead> just a question has anyone been sucessful built an 8 server multi disk ( 50 tera) system?
[02:42] <thoughtspot> Hello, we wiped out MAAS server accidentally without a backup. We created a new server but all machines are gone. I'm wondering is there a way to add nodes to server without needing to deploy it? I don't want to wipe out the existing machines. I tried reboot, it is able to listed on MAAS server, but the machine itself stuck on booting with error message `Loading centos/amd64/generic/centos70/no-such-image/boot-kernel...failed: No su
[04:27] <mup> Bug #1746980 changed: storage /disk not showing  node change status commising to testing <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746980>
[09:46] <mup> Bug #1761120 opened: The region process doesn't start properly after 'maas init' in the snap <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761120>
[13:40] <mup> Bug #1761189 opened: [UI, vanilla] 'check now' button can be be wrapped into a second like if too long <vanilla-transition> <MAAS:Triaged by deadlight> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761189>
[13:53] <ackk> la
[14:40] <mup> Bug #1761212 opened: LXC 3.0.0 no longer supports some profile config names <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761212>
[17:47] <xygnal> any known limits for tags? performance/capacity limits.
[18:02] <roaksoax> xygnal: tags? not really
[18:02] <roaksoax> xygnal: they are nothing that should affect performance
[18:23] <mup> Bug #1761257 opened: [2.4] Show calculated TTL in DNS UI <MAAS:Triaged by mpontillo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761257>
[18:23] <mup> Bug #1761262 opened: [feature] allow overriding ipmi credential creation policy <foundations-engine> <wishlist> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761262>
[18:50] <mup> Bug #1761269 opened: [2.4, UI] Containers should be called containers, not devices <MAAS:Triaged by mpontillo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761269>
[19:26] <mup> Bug #1761279 opened: [2.4, UI] Invalid tooltip about no tests run  <vanilla-transition> <MAAS:Triaged by deadlight> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761279>
[19:26] <mup> Bug #1761281 opened: [2.4, UI] The subnets page does not pull data on view <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761281>
[19:26] <mup> Bug #1761282 opened: Re-installation fails with "Volume already exists" <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761282>
[19:32] <mup> Bug #1761279 changed: [2.4, UI] Invalid tooltip about no tests run  <vanilla-transition> <MAAS:Triaged by deadlight> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761279>
[19:32] <mup> Bug #1761281 changed: [2.4, UI] The subnets page does not pull data on view <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761281>
[19:32] <mup> Bug #1761282 changed: Re-installation fails with "Volume already exists" <curtin:New> <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761282>
[19:35] <mup> Bug #1761279 opened: [2.4, UI] Invalid tooltip about no tests run  <vanilla-transition> <MAAS:Triaged by deadlight> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761279>
[19:35] <mup> Bug #1761281 opened: [2.4, UI] The subnets page does not pull data on view <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761281>
[19:35] <mup> Bug #1761282 opened: [2.3] Re-installation fails with "Volume already exists" <curtin:New> <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761282>
[20:20] <mup> Bug #1760191 changed: maas-ipmi-autodetect-tool fails during enlistment for cavium thunder 88xx crb v2 <cdo-qa> <cdo-qa-blocker> <foundations-engine> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760191>
[21:35] <mup> Bug #1761314 opened: maas_url of http://localhost:5240/MAAS in rackd.conf leads to invalid metadata URL <maas (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761314>
[21:44] <mup> Bug #1761314 opened: [2.4] maas_url http://<ip>:5240/MAAS in regiond.conf leads to invalid metadata URL <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761314>
[21:50] <mup> Bug #1761314 changed: [2.4] maas_url http://<ip>:5240/MAAS in regiond.conf leads to invalid metadata URL <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761314>
[22:16] <Pallav> Hi
[22:41] <mup> Bug #1761322 opened: [2.4] MAAS doesn't notice change in interfaces <MAAS:Triaged by mpontillo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761322>
[22:56] <mup> Bug #1761326 opened: [2.4b1] DNS triggers not working <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761326>
[23:20] <mup> Bug #1711203 changed: Deployments fail when Secure Boot enabled <blocks-hwcert-server> <id-5a28802797729aedf99dcd37> <curtin:Invalid> <dellserver:New> <MAAS:Fix Released
[23:20] <mup> by andreserl> <MAAS 2.3:Fix Released by andreserl> <maas-images:Fix Released by ltrager> <shim (Ubuntu):In Progress by cyphermox> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711203>


[06:28] <RadioZen> hi. I don't know if this is the best place to ask questions. Please direct me to the correct channel. I have ubuntu 16.04 and Lenovo E440. I bought a backlit keyboard and installed it. I can't get it to light up, I am wondering how I can light it up.


[10:18] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:19] <bittin_> morning
[10:22] <brobostigon> morning bittin_
[18:02] <diddledan> ello
[18:02] <diddledan> I is 'ere
[18:02] <diddledan> who missed me? :-p
[18:16] <popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[18:16] <diddledan> lol
[18:22] <penguin42> popey: why?
[18:23] <popey> penguin42, hey!
[18:23] <popey> penguin42, I only recently discovered (or re-discovered) that you are the author of BeebEm
[18:24]  * penguin42 nods
[18:24] <penguin42> popey: It's kind of crazy, I wrote it ~20 years ago and haven't done anything with it for ages, in the mean time people have ported it all over and added loads of peripherals and stuff
[18:26]  * popey wishes there was an SDL2 port :)
[18:26] <penguin42> should be pretty easy to do
[18:29] <popey> heh
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> I see a volunteer :P
[19:05] <penguin42> yeh, I expect to see a Ubuntu phone running Monsters
[19:06] <penguin42> hmm, actually; I bet you could fly rocket-raid using acclerometers
[19:07] <mapp> good tv night tonight;]
[19:18] <popey> ugh, autoconf
[19:18] <daftykins> lul
[19:18] <daftykins> mapps: still nippy down there?
[19:24] <popey> bah, don't understand this at all.
[20:55] <foobarry> i've used that many a time
[20:55] <foobarry> beebem that is
[21:00] <bittin_> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9xw7H-ekV7Sa2VwZnJETXVxZ2M&usp=sharing
[21:21] <bittin_> http://a.pomf.cat/povyxw.jpeg
[22:18] <daftykins> bittin_: what are these links?
[22:19] <bittin_> daftykins: a picture from a book and some movies from a club
[22:19] <daftykins> suspicious looking to me, so i'll pass :)


[11:22] <xnox> cking, how silly is this udev rule - https://github.com/ibm-s390-tools/s390-tools/blob/master/etc/udev/rules.d/60-readahead.rules#L10 ? why is read_ahead_kb 128? should the kernel read_ahead_kb be bumped? is there a sysctl to set the default read_ahead_kb in the kernel?
[11:22]  * xnox is grepping the kernel and getting lost
[11:23] <xnox> can i bump it to 512 everywhere?
[11:24] <xnox>  916        q->backing_dev_info->ra_pages =
[11:24] <xnox>  917                        (VM_MAX_READAHEAD * 1024) / PAGE_SIZE;
[11:24] <xnox> oooh
[11:24] <cking> 512 is quite large for all systems isn't it?
[11:25] <xnox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/btw3vKkx8X/
[11:25] <xnox> is my thinking....
[11:25] <xnox> cking, are you saying 128kb should be enough for everyboy - Bill Gates?
[11:25] <xnox> cking, are you saying 128kb should be enough for everybody - Bill Gates?
[11:26] <cking> heh, well, today's drives are getting faster and memory is larger so a larger readahead makes some sense I suppose
[11:26] <xnox> cking, if that's too large for all systems, i want this exposed as a /all/ sysfs ctl such that I can configure the default at runtime and apply to all.
[11:26] <xnox> cause at the moment, i can either set it on each device as they appear.... which is racy. Or recompile the kernel.
[11:28] <xnox> cking, given 4k native drives, bumping the readahead 4 times makes sense to keep the constant readhead number of sectors, no?
[11:28] <cking> xnox,  the problem is that the default may not be ideal for all use cases. for example, doing lots of random I/O you don't want a really large readahead
[11:29] <cking> large readahead makes sense when you are streaming data in sequentially
[11:29] <xnox> on 4k native drives, the cost should be the same as it used to be with 128kb & 512 sector drives.... unless i'm a clueless muppet =)
[11:29]  * xnox looks at the historgram of all reads an "average" machine does.
[11:30]  * xnox notes there is no such graph
[11:30] <cking> well, you still have bus bandwidth limitations, large readahead will impact even with large sectors, so the choice is a good compromise, which is hard to guess
[11:31] <xnox> i'm wondering if this is true in general, given all of this is hidden inside the layers of bcache / md / filesystems layers, and most of that stuff is very extends happy these days, etc.
[11:31] <xnox> cking, and ibm is bumping that up, on s390x, because everything is big on big iron?
[11:31] <cking> xnox, s390x can do I/O *really* fast
[11:31]  * xnox notes that it looks like that udev rule they commit alongside the bootloader is meant to run everywhere.
[11:32] <cking> it's one of it's key wins
[11:32] <xnox> oh, so if I condition this to s390, people will complain? =)
[11:32]  * xnox about to make s390x bloody fast; and make all the other kids complain
[11:33] <cking> xnox, whatever is chosen is going to be sub-optimal for somebody
[11:33] <xnox> however, ibm recommends this and all of us ship that udev rule, so for everybody we go with ibm recommendation on this one.....
[11:34] <xnox> one can overcommit z/vms too
[11:34] <cking> very true
[11:35] <xnox> i really don't like how it is *1024/PAGE_SIZE. Surely a default of a specific number of sectors or pages makes more sense. And systems with larger disk sectors / memory page_size get more caching.
[11:36] <xnox> btrfs does funky stuff to the device.
[11:36] <xnox> 2727        sb->s_bdi->ra_pages = VM_MAX_READAHEAD * SZ_1K / PAGE_SIZE;
[11:36] <xnox> 2728        sb->s_bdi->ra_pages *= btrfs_super_num_devices(disk_super);
[11:36] <xnox> 2729        sb->s_bdi->ra_pages = max(sb->s_bdi->ra_pages, SZ_4M / PAGE_SIZE);
[11:37] <cking> nice, so a device specific setting behaves differently depending on the file system, yat
[11:37] <cking> *yay
[11:37] <xnox> btrfs goes to 11
[11:38] <xnox> cking, well, btrfs does take over the whole device, if the whole device is added to the pool....
[11:39] <xnox> md layer does stuff with stripe sizes
[11:40] <xnox> nfs too
[11:41]  * cking wonders what zfs does
[11:51] <dijuremo> tyhicks: I was running: ii  intel-microcode                             3.20180108.0+really20170707ubuntu16.04.1
[11:51] <dijuremo> I have installed your package, intel-microcode (3.20180312.0~ubuntu16.04.1)
[11:51] <dijuremo> And will conduct testing and report back.
[11:53] <f_g> cking: it sets ra_pages to 0
[11:54] <f_g> ah no, to 1 actually
[11:54] <cking> f_g, that's not what I expected for sure
[11:54] <f_g> courtesy of having its own prefetcher
[11:54] <cking> ah, that makes sense
[11:54] <f_g> bc17f1047a83cc8c4065e0ef84333a0d9b9d73aa
[11:54] <f_g> :)
[12:19] <dijuremo> tyhicks: My first test was to update the microcode, reboot, and keep the old firmware A14. Machine seemed fine, though it fully hung on my first test. The test was to log in, run glxgears and Matlab: bench(5) then log off. The machine hung up after login off at the login screen where a darker shade appeared over the whole screen. Num Lock would not work on the keyboard. I force restarted the machine, repeated the same process 3 times with
[12:32] <dijuremo> tyhicks: My second test was to update to A16, which is the latest firmware for the DELL T3610.  The machine was crashing (screen hung) right after entering the password and hitting enter when I was using the outdated microcode. Any idea when the new microcode package is going to be made available in the m
[14:02] <tyhicks> dijuremo: thanks for testing! I believe that the security team plans to publish the new intel-microcode this week
[14:02] <tyhicks> dijuremo: could you paste the output of 'iucode-tool --scan-system' when you get a chance?
[17:15] <dijuremo> tyhicks: oh well, spoke too soon, now that we have added gnome-desktop per user request, the machine is back to crashing either at the login screen or if we log out after starting a graphical session... sigh...
[17:17] <dijuremo> iucode-tool: system has processor(s) with signature 0x000306e4
[17:19] <dijuremo> Is there a need to rebuild the nvidia kernel module with the latest Intel Microcode in place?
[17:20] <tyhicks> dijuremo: no, there shouldn't be
[17:22] <tyhicks> dijuremo: can you pastebin the output of 'dmesg -t | grep -i microcode'? are you still running firmware A16?
[17:23] <tyhicks> dijuremo: also, can you elaborate on what you mean by "crashing"?
[17:24] <dijuremo> The system freezes completely, only hardboot from the power button will reboot it. Numlock stops turining on/off in the ssytem
[17:24] <dijuremo> microcode: sig=0x306e4, pf=0x1, revision=0x42c
[17:24] <dijuremo> microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.2.
[17:27] <dijuremo> Our testing earlier today involved two separate users login in and running the usual Matlab and glxgears for tests. It was all working well up until the point we added gnome-desktop to the machine. It seems the issues are related to GUI/Nvidia, but I cannot be sure.
[17:27] <tyhicks> that matches the microcode revision in the latest blob from intel:
[17:27] <tyhicks> 01/126: sig 0x000306e4, pf mask 0xed, 2018-01-25, rev 0x042c, size 15360
[17:29] <tyhicks> dijuremo: which kernel are you running?
[17:31] <dijuremo> 4.13.0-37-generic
[17:34] <dijuremo> BIOS Information
[17:34] <dijuremo>         Vendor: Dell Inc.
[17:34] <dijuremo>         Version: A16
[17:34] <dijuremo>         Release Date: 02/05/2018
[17:42] <tyhicks> dijuremo: at this point I think we're better off tracking all the failing combinations in a bug report
[17:43] <tyhicks> dijuremo: could you file one?
[17:44] <dijuremo> Point me in the right direction, never done one for Ubuntu...
[17:44] <tyhicks> dijuremo: also, I think it'd be very helpful to confirm one more time that lockups do not happen after removing intel-microcode, downgrading to firmware A14, and then rebooting into 4.13.0-37-generic
[17:45] <tyhicks> dijuremo: I think you should initially file it against intel-microcode: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode/+filebug
[17:45] <dijuremo> Let me try going to A14 without even removing gnome-desktop and I will report back. The system was stable with BIOS A14 and new microcode.
[17:45] <tyhicks> dijuremo: please include that info in the bug report
[17:46] <tyhicks> dijuremo: at this point, it is sounding like a bad BIOS update
[17:47] <dijuremo> tyhicks: This behaviour is the exact same in several DELL and one Lenovo System. Machines boot up just fine and freeze after attempting to log in. Or if you are loging off, right after log off, I think when lightdm restarts.
[17:47] <dijuremo> In all cases, we have fixed the issues by downgrading the BIOS.
[17:48] <tyhicks> dijuremo: including the 'iucode-tool --scan-system' output from all affected systems would be helpful
[17:48] <dijuremo> But in the other DELL machines I had not tested the latest microcode update
[17:48] <dijuremo> Neither the Lenovo M93p
[17:48] <tyhicks> dijuremo: I don't have a machine with 0x000306e4 so I'm unable to reproduce with that particular processor
[17:49] <tyhicks> dijuremo: big thanks for helping so much to test out all the different combinations
[17:49] <dijuremo> The Lenovo had an i7, would that be a good test you can check?
[17:50] <dijuremo> The T series are all Xeons. Seen it on the 5810 which has the E5-1680 and the 5820 with the newer W-2XXX cpus
[17:50] <tyhicks> no i7s but let me check my xeons
[17:51] <dijuremo> I am going to see what I can do, I have given these systems to end users, so not so sure they will be happy with me hijacking them for a few hours...
[17:51] <tyhicks> fwiw, I've been running the updated microcode for weeks now without any issue
[17:51] <tyhicks> I haven't applied any BIOS updates to those machines, though
[17:51] <dijuremo> Do you have Nvidia cards?
[17:51] <tyhicks> no
[17:51] <tyhicks> all machines are either intel graphics or headless
[17:51] <dijuremo> So the BIOS is pretty much what breaks them...
[17:52] <dijuremo> And I think it is highly related as well to the nvidia driver. though we had one set of laptops with the freezing issue which was solved by running the 4.4.0-116 kernel I think.
[17:53] <dijuremo> It was a couple of weeks ago, so I do not remember much. But bought two laptops, one came with an older firmware and took 4.4.13-036 without issue. The other machine had the newer firmware and would freeze.
[17:53] <dijuremo> I tried downgrading the BIOS on the laptop that was freezing, but the downgrade was blocked by DELL :(
[17:54] <dijuremo> At that time I did not know of pti=off or nospectre_v2 or updating microcode, so I have not tried any of those....
[17:59] <dijuremo> tyhicks: FWIW, the machine is currently up, without login into it. So it seems that the graphical login triggers the freezes, though one time earlier today it fully froze during boot.
[18:00] <dijuremo> tyhicks:  I am ssh-ing it from another machine and have a shell on it..
[18:00] <tyhicks> dijuremo: ok, so you have the A14 firmware with intel-microcode uninstalled?
[18:00] <dijuremo> Nope, I have A16 without having logged in at all in the GUI
[18:01] <dijuremo> Still A16 microcode .deb from march I got from your PPA
[18:01] <tyhicks> dijuremo: I think we've established that the A16 BIOS locks up in all cases
[18:02] <dijuremo> tyhicks: A16 locks up in all cases after login via the GUI. Sometimes as you log in, sometimes when you try to log off and lightdm restarts
[18:02] <dijuremo> That is with the microcode from March (your PPA deb package).
[18:02] <tyhicks> dijuremo: I wonder if we'll see any microcode revisions reported by the kernel with A16 but with intel-microcode uninstalled
[18:03] <dijuremo> Without the microcode, it freezes as soon as lightdm starts
[18:03] <tyhicks> huh
[18:03] <tyhicks> that makes me think that the BIOS has the microcode that Intel pulled due to QA issues
[18:03] <dijuremo> With the older 201801 microcode from the main Ubuntu repo
[18:04] <tyhicks> Intel briefly released updated microcode and the pulled it because users were experiencing issues
[18:04] <dijuremo> These BIOS releases are from March, so supposedly vendors had not published the first problematic ones or removed them from their sites.
[18:04] <dijuremo> But some of the 5820 and 5810 BIOS are very freshly released...
[18:04] <tyhicks> I don't know how to tell which microcode revision is provided in a BIOS update
[18:05] <dijuremo> The T3610 is from this month as well.
[18:06] <dijuremo> A16 Dell Precision Workstation T3610 System BIOS  BIOS	06 Mar 2018
[18:06] <tyhicks> timing doesn't tell us if they are shipping a possibly bad revision
[18:07] <dijuremo> I do not know how to check for good/bad
[18:07] <dijuremo> My understanding was they were not releasing the ones with the bad fixes...
[18:07] <dijuremo> How could one figure out what those are?
[18:08] <tyhicks> I'm not sure - thinking about that now...
[18:08] <dijuremo> For the 5820 there is a newer BIOS released yesterday.... Dell Precision 5820 Tower System BIOS BIOS	27 Mar 2018 1.4.0
[18:08] <tyhicks> dijuremo: you could try uninstalling intel-microcode, rebooting, and then see if the 'dmesg -t | grep -i microcode' command shows anything
[18:09] <dijuremo> Will do that now
[18:09] <dijuremo> We do not want the older microcode from 201801, right?
[18:09] <tyhicks> dijuremo: 'sudo cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/microcode/version' would also be interesting
[18:09] <tyhicks> dijuremo: that's right
[18:09] <dijuremo> With A16 cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/microcode/version
[18:09] <dijuremo> 0x42c
[18:10] <dijuremo> We want this to use the original CPU microcode, right?  ->   apt purge intel-microcode
[18:11] <tyhicks> dijuremo: right - we want to see what revision is reported when just using the microcode from the A16 BIOS
[18:13] <dijuremo> dmesg -t  | grep micro
[18:13] <dijuremo> microcode: sig=0x306e4, pf=0x1, revision=0x42c
[18:13] <dijuremo> microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.2.
[18:13] <dijuremo> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/microcode/version
[18:13] <dijuremo> 0x42c
[18:13] <dijuremo> root@localhost:~# dpkg -l | grep intel-microcode
[18:13] <dijuremo> root@localhost:~#
[18:13] <tyhicks> dijuremo: that was after a reboot?
[18:13] <dijuremo> Yes
[18:14] <dijuremo> root@localhost:~# uptime
[18:14] <dijuremo>  14:14:03 up 2 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.43, 0.53, 0.24
[18:14] <tyhicks> hmm
[18:14] <tyhicks> I'm stumped
[18:15] <dijuremo> Should I downgrade to A14 and repeat?
[18:15] <dijuremo> We should get a different microcode then, right?
[18:15] <tyhicks> the intel-microcode deb and the A16 BIOS deliver the same microcode revision yet the lockup only happens with A16
[18:15] <tyhicks> dijuremo: yes, that's a good test
[18:16] <tyhicks> dijuremo: downgrade to A14, check what microcode revision is being reported, ensure that you can't trigger the lockup, then install the intel-microcode from the PPA and reboot, then see if you can trigger the lockup
[18:17] <tyhicks> this is maddening but very helpful since we're trying to determine how widely to push out the new intel-microcode updates
[18:21] <dijuremo> With the A14 BIOS
[18:21] <dijuremo> root@localhost:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/microcode/version
[18:21] <dijuremo> 0x428
[18:22] <tyhicks> ok, so it was downgraded
[18:22] <dijuremo> dmesg -t  | grep micro
[18:22] <dijuremo> microcode: sig=0x306e4, pf=0x1, revision=0x428
[18:22] <dijuremo> microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.2.
[18:22] <dijuremo> I am going to log into GUI and log out a few times and also change desktops from unity to gnome with A14.
[18:22] <tyhicks> sounds good
[18:31] <dijuremo> Login works well for Unity and Gnome under my account and I asked someone else to log in to their account to gnome. Ran Matlab and glxgears no issue
[18:32] <dijuremo> So total of 3 GUI logins and logouts without freezes on A14 BIOS and 4.13.0-37-generic kernel
[18:32] <dijuremo>
[18:32] <dijuremo> Would the next test be to install your PPA intel-microcode package and test again?
[18:32] <dijuremo> See if we can get it to crash?
[18:33] <tyhicks> dijuremo: yes, please
[18:34] <dijuremo> I also do not know that running matlab and glxgears are the best test, but since the freezes happened on a GUI, I thought those would be at least decent apps to run.
[18:34] <dijuremo> If you can think of any other apps to run, let me know.
[18:34] <tyhicks> I've heard of one other report that involves starting up a VM
[18:35] <tyhicks> it seems like you have a fairly reliable reproducer though
[18:35] <dijuremo> I would have to install virtualbox and a VM... do not have one there at the moment.
[18:36] <tyhicks> no worries
[18:36] <dijuremo> Installed intel-microcode from your PPA and now rebooting...
[18:36] <ricotz> sforshee, hi, are you about to rebase the bionic next branch to 4.15.14?
[18:37] <dijuremo> After reboot:
[18:37] <dijuremo> dmesg -t  | grep micro
[18:37] <dijuremo> microcode: microcode updated early to revision 0x42c, date = 2018-01-25
[18:37] <dijuremo> microcode: sig=0x306e4, pf=0x1, revision=0x42c
[18:37] <dijuremo> microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.2.
[18:38] <dijuremo> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/microcode/version
[18:38] <dijuremo> 0x42c
[18:38] <dijuremo> dmidecode | grep -i version | grep 14
[18:38] <dijuremo>         Version: A14
[18:38] <dijuremo>  Bios is still A14
[18:39]  * tyhicks nods
[18:48] <dijuremo> So far no freezes... A14 BIOS with your Microcode Logged in 3 times user1 both Unity and Gnome, user2 to Gnome, logged out after running matlab bench(5) and glxgears, machine is still OK, no freezes.
[18:49] <dijuremo> Does that tell us something else in the BIOS not related to the CPU microcode is to blame?
[18:49] <tyhicks> possibly
[18:49] <tyhicks> I'd say the only thing left to do is upgrade the BIOS to A16 and try once more
[18:49] <dijuremo> Will do, that should reproduce the freeze easily...
[18:55] <sforshee> ricotz: that must have just come it. We'll undoubtedly get to that shortly.
[18:55] <sforshee> *out
[18:55] <TJ-> dijuremo: when the BIOS is updated do you reset to factory defaults or leave the existing BIOS config in place?
[18:56] <ricotz> sforshee, yeah, a couple hours, just notice you were pushing changes, so I was curious about this last release
[18:57] <TJ-> dijuremo: I've seen instances where a later BIOS changes the layout of the config NVRAM space and inherited values can be read for some other setting (due to different offsets, etc.)
[19:00] <dijuremo> After BIOS update I have not reset to factory defaults. I can try that. The first GUI login worked well, I ran Matlab and Glxgears, and then after login out, the machine froze. Numlock key is no longer tuning on/off and I cannot ssh into the machine
[19:04] <tyhicks> while maybe not definitive, I think it points at the BIOS update as introducing the issue
[19:05] <tyhicks> TJ- has a good idea
[19:12] <dijuremo> For a moment I thought it worked, because this time I was able to log in and log out once, but during the second GUI login the machine froze and Numlock key does not respond nor does ssh...
[19:13] <dijuremo> Not sure if it would matter, but the BIOS is set to EFI mode.
[19:13] <dijuremo> Has been for all the testing....
[19:13] <dijuremo> So resetting BIOS defaults with A16 did not really fixed the problem either.
[19:18] <tyhicks> on one hand I'm glad we were able to narrow it down to the new BIOS but on the other hand, I'm stumped at what the next steps would be
[19:18] <dijuremo> tyhicks: And this happens with several models and also a Lenovo M93p
[19:19] <dijuremo> Exact same type of freezing with the later BIOS from manufacturers. Fix is to downgrade the BIOS where possible.
[19:19] <dijuremo> And in that DELL 7480 laptop with the latest BIOS, the fix was to stick to 4.4.0 kernel because 4.13.0 would freeze the machine.
[19:20] <dijuremo> I guess we could try downgrading the kernel to 4.4.0 here and test with A16. Would that provide any useful information?
[19:21] <tyhicks> it would be a good data point
[19:21] <dijuremo> That may be tomorrow since it will involve clearing and rebuilding the nvidia driver, etc and I am getting close to leave and have to wrap up other things. Will keep you posted.
[19:22] <tyhicks> that's understandable - thanks for all the debugging you've done so far
[19:22] <dijuremo> Thanks for all the help!!! I really appreciate it!
[19:31] <TJ-> tyhicks: can of worms!
[19:39] <TJ-> tyhicks: one question I've not been able to find answered in the Intel architecture docs is this: when doing a CPU warm reset does the loaded microcode get reset back to CPU-ROM version, or does a loaded microcode persist. Inference says it gets cleared on CPU reset but it isn't documented anywhere I've been able to find.
[20:06] <tyhicks> TJ-: hmm... I would think it gets cleared but I'm really not sure
[20:45] <TJ-> Aha.. Intel 64 and IA-32Architecture Software Developers Manual vol 3A; System Programming Guide; Part1 <IP_ADDRESS>: "The effects of a loaded update are cleared from the processo
[20:45] <TJ-> r upon a hard reset. Therefore, each time a hard reset
[20:45] <TJ-> is asserted during the BIOS POST, the update must be re
[20:45] <TJ-> loaded on all processors that observed the reset. The
[20:45] <TJ-> effects of a loaded update are, howeve
[20:45] <TJ-> r, maintained across a processor INIT.


[00:30] <robotfuel> racarr: ping
[00:32] <robotfuel> kdub: ping are you still around?
[00:32] <kdub> indeed
[00:39] <robotfuel> kdub: I have failing tests are arm due to memory leaks, do you know who I should ping about it? https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/mir-team-mir-development-branch-trusty-armhf-ci/139/console
[00:39] <robotfuel> er I have failing tests on arm due to...
[00:40] <kdub> ooo, are we running tests on arm? :)
[00:40] <kdub> robotfuel, i'll take a quick look
[00:41] <robotfuel> kdub: the tests pass when I don't use valgrind.
[00:44] <kdub> robotfuel, right
[00:49] <kdub> robotfuel, i see it too, could you file a bug against mir?
[00:49] <robotfuel> kdub: will do
[00:51] <kdub> robotfuel, thanks
[00:52] <cpatrick08> i am trying to build mir from source on trusty and I get following error http://pastebin.com/zeRYuQiB
[00:53] <cpatrick08> cmake-gui options for builf http://tinypic.com/r/11b1bsz/5
[00:53] <robotfuel> kdub: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1253486
[00:54] <kdub> cpatrick08, you could just disable building the unit tests, if thats the only thing failing
[00:55] <kdub> although, it is strange it can't find eglCreateImageKHR, as nothing should link to that directly anyways
[00:55] <RAOF> cpatrick08: Hm, difference with my successful builds might be “use debflags’
[00:55] <cpatrick08> will take that away and try to build again will let you know if that works
[00:56] <kdub> i retract my statement about 'nothing should link to that'... :) long day
[00:57] <kdub> sigh, i retract my retraction :)
[00:57] <robotfuel> cpatrick08: did you try dpkg-buildpackage?
[00:59] <cpatrick08> no i have not will try it if this does not work
[01:07] <kdub> morning duflu
[01:08] <kdub> i made a comment on the bug, but I don't see input problems on my n7
[01:13] <duflu> kdub: Hi. OK, thanks
[01:20] <kdub> oh, and resizing was okay too :)
[01:24] <duflu> kdub: Yeah, that's what confused me. I had demo-shell getting input a week or two ago, but not clients. Now nothing
[01:24] <duflu> It's only the N7 that's an issue
[01:44] <cpatrick08> kdub, i removed the unit tests and the make worked but when i ran ctest i got error only on test 23 	 23 - integration-tests.GBMBufferIntegration.* (SEGFAULT)
[01:45] <cpatrick08> i kept the debflags on btw
[01:48] <cpatrick08> i am trying it again with the debflags off
[03:37] <duflu_> RAOF: What am I missing?... https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1253507
[03:37] <RAOF> duflu: We should really spit out the actual test output when it fails :)
[03:38] <duflu> RAOF: It's way too long :/
[03:38] <RAOF> Not for the bit that fails.
[03:38] <RAOF> Anyway, what *is* the output?
[03:39] <duflu> RAOF: Yes, the bit that fails is massive...
[03:39] <duflu> But mostly they say C++ exception with description "Udev device does not exist" thrown in the test body.
[03:39] <RAOF> Iinteresting.
[03:39] <RAOF> Pastebin?
[03:40] <duflu> RAOF: Attached to the bug
[03:41] <duflu> RAOF: Weird cos my saucy and trusty machines seem to have identical udev packages
[03:41] <RAOF> Ah, but probably have different umockdev packages?
[03:41] <duflu> Oh, wait, no. The Ubuntu revisions differ
[03:42] <duflu> RAOF: Yeah fails on umockdev 0.4.6-2, works on 0.4.7-1
[03:44] <RAOF> umockdev is just being totally screwy there; it's not providing a mock udev environment at all.
[03:45] <duflu> RAOF: But it worked a few days ago(?)
[03:45] <RAOF> Not on those tests it didn't?
[03:45] <duflu> RAOF: Well, everything we had worked a few days ago
[03:45] <RAOF> Because those tests are shiny and new!
[03:46] <duflu> I assume we used umockdev to some extent even before, when it worked
[03:59] <RAOF> Yeah, we did.
[05:42] <RAOF> Is there some good reason why lp:mir doesn't resolve to lp:~mir-team/mir/development-branch?
[05:50] <duflu> RAOF: Not by our own choice. I tried pointing lp:mir to development-branch at the start of the cycle. But distro have a *requirement* that lp:mir be more stable than they perceive development-branch to be
[05:50] <duflu> So now lp:mir is the Ubuntu branch
[05:50] <RAOF> I am going to *keep* hitting that, aren't I ☹
[05:51] <duflu> RAOF: Mainly it's about ABI stability and how any break in Mir affects a string of other projects. So it's good we can batch and control the timing of ABI breaks into lp:mir
[05:52] <duflu> tvoss_: Morgen
[05:53] <duflu> RAOF: Apparently the "ubuntu" project branches for Mir can't be used for Ubuntu packaging work. So they need to own lp:mir
[06:28] <tvoss> duflu, hey there :)
[08:10] <mlankhorst> morning
[09:26] <duflu> Ping alan_g
[09:26] <alan_g> duflu: morning
[09:27] <duflu> alan_g: Hello. I have spiked that event queue idea. I think it's looking very attractive now, but needs some serious testing yet. So just FYI... please don't duplicate effort for now. I'll get it up for review by Friday in the latest
[09:27] <alan_g> duflu: that's great. Thanks.
[10:11] <alf_> duflu: alan_g: Do unit-tests.UdevWrapperTest.* tests fail for you locally with the latest development-branch?
[10:11] <duflu> alf_: Yes. But only on saucy
[10:12] <alan_g> no
[10:12] <alf_> duflu: I am on trusty...
[10:12] <duflu> alf_: Me too, half the time
[10:12] <alf_> duflu: I mean they fail for me on trusty
[10:13] <duflu> alf_: That's odd, but means it's more serious than first thought
[10:30] <duflu> alf_: There's a bug already BTW: 1253507
[10:30] <duflu> bug 1253507
[10:31] <alf_> duflu: thanks, assigning to myself
[10:36] <duflu> alf_: If you get that bug on trusty then it's probably Critical :/
[10:36]  * duflu goes to make dinner
[10:56] <alan_g> alf_: update - running without ctest I too see the problem
[10:57] <alan_g> alf_: and something similar in GBMDisplayTest.drm_device_change_event_triggers_handler
[10:59] <alf_> alan_g: right, the umockdev framework needs an LD_PRELOAD to work properly
[11:00]  * alan_g leaves it to alf_ who's already on it
[11:02] <alf_> alan_g: I don't think there is a solution to it. When running manually we need to use the preload (or the related umockdev-wrapper script)
[11:03] <alan_g> That sucks
[11:06]  * alan_g wonders if any tests needing this preload should be put in a separate executable
[13:40] <alf_> tvoss: Please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/mir/mir-client-ensure-global-symbol-resolution/+merge/196110 , especially the discussion about the options, since it involves multiple components in our stack
[13:40] <tvoss> alf_, yup, put it on my list
[14:19] <alan_g> Any experts on booting with USC about? I tried following the instructions - http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/using_mir_on_pc.html - although I had to create the .conf file after installing USC. But when I restart I see "/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so: undefined symbol: xmir_get_drm_fd" in /var/log/lightdm/x-0.log.old. Does anyone know how to fix?
[14:28] <alf_> alan_g: I haven't seen that before (but it has been a while since I tried USC)
[14:30] <alan_g> alf_: thanks. (This is my first time with USC.)
[14:52] <kgunn> alan_g: i can try in a moment...
[14:52] <kgunn> alan_g: are you on trusty or saucy ?
[14:52]  * kgunn knows alan_g :)
[15:00] <alan_g> kgunn: that laptop is on trusty
[15:00]  * kgunn does _not_ know alan_g  :)
[15:01] <kgunn> alan_g: ok...i'm on trusty...just looking at your output...sure looks like packaging shenanigans
[15:01] <alan_g> kgunn: ack
[15:02] <alan_g> kgunn: What I was really trying to do was test this: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/unity-system-compositor/dont-use-ApplicationSession/+merge/193070
[15:03] <alan_g> kgunn: If this problem will go away by itself then I don't want to waste too much time
[15:06] <kgunn> alan_g: so, i already had u-s-c installed, so just had to comment back in type=unity, rebooted...u-s-c/xmir came up fine for me
[15:06] <kgunn> alan_g: would you like me to rebuild u-s-c from that branch to test?
[15:08] <alan_g> kgunn: please. I'm going to wait and see if the packages come into alignment over the next few days
[15:08] <kgunn> alan_g: yeah...something doesn't seem quite right wrt packaging in trusty
[15:09] <kgunn> based on some previous stuff i've seen
[15:12] <alan_g> hmm, my netbook just refused to upgrade to trusty as it can't find some of the repos.
[21:06] <mterry> Did y'all remove the mir::surfaces namespace?  Compiling unity-mir against mir devel-branch gives an error to that effect
[21:22] <kdub>   mterry it is now mir::scene
[21:35] <mterry> kdub, thanks, btw
[21:36] <racarr> mterry: I guess you aren't cool enough to keep up with the hip new scene.
[21:36] <racarr> *drum crash*
[21:37] <mterry> racarr, whatever, I'll just hang out with libmirserver7 at my house.  I don't need this mir scene
[21:38] <racarr> lol
[21:38] <racarr> welcome
[21:38] <racarr> to my life
[21:38] <mterry> :)
[22:36] <ricmm> kdub_: ping
[22:39] <ricmm> kdub: ping
[22:43] <kdub> pong


[02:52] <jjesse> did someone message me?
[02:52] <jjesse> if so i lost it in the scroll
[06:13] <nh_work> anyone have any suggestions for installing fop in ubuntu?
[06:16] <nixternal> nh_work: are you planning on making pdfs?
[06:16] <nixternal> I would recommend dblatex and pdflatex truthfully
[06:17] <nh_work> nixternal: hrm... ok.  Any idea why fop no longer seems to be there?
[06:17] <nixternal> fop isn't in our repos, but you can get a tarball of it
[06:18] <nixternal> if you are using the old scripts in Ubuntu documentation, then fop is what you need
[06:18] <nh_work> alright, I'll deal. ;)  Thanks
[09:38] <ryanakca> nixternal: are you busy now, or shortly after the K-D meeting, or later on tonight?
[09:38] <ryanakca> better way to phrase it: is there a time tonight when you wont be busy?
[09:39] <nixternal> I am getting ready to shower, do the meeting, then head to school
[09:40] <nixternal> I won't be back online until around 04:00 UTC
[09:40] <nixternal> tomorrow may be best to work on the doc thing, as I will be around all day
[09:47] <ryanakca> ok
[09:47] <ryanakca> tomorrow I'm gone after 5 ish, so oh well. There's alwais the weekend


[04:38] <bittu2> how to determine difference between single user mode and run level 1?
[04:38] <bittu2> i'm using centos 6 and i'm trying to see if there is an actual difference between the levels
[08:28] <xnox> bittu2: i'm not familiar with centos 6, but as far as I know by default it only uses init.d scripts. You can inspect those to see if there is any difference. I would not have thought there would be.
[08:30] <xnox> elmo: upstart 1.9-0ubuntu1 is in saucy. If you are after upstart apparmor support, you might need apparmor/kernel from saucy
[08:31] <jodh> xnox: thanks for doing the upload!
[08:32] <jodh> xnox: ...speaking of which, could I bug you about the procenv one? :)
[12:15] <elmo> xnox: no, I'm after the dbus bridge; thanks for letting me know
[12:16] <xnox> elmo: than straight backport should be enough =)
[12:30] <jodh> xnox: lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/fix-libupstart updated.
[12:30] <xnox> jodh: win! =)
[12:31] <xnox> we should have done that long time ago anyway.... was on the back of my todo list =)
[12:31] <jodh> xnox: yeah, I'd like to understand exactly what's different on 64-bit systems though.
[14:24] <neomantra> hi, i am running on headless a Ubuntu cloud image (Raring with upstart 1.8) and want to use upstart session jobs.   I don't think I'm set up properly for this as I get this error in response to `initctl --user start mjob`:
[14:24] <neomantra> "initctl: UPSTART_SESSION isn't set in the environment. Unable to locate the Upstart instance."
[14:54] <xnox> jodh: ^
[14:54] <xnox> jodh: do we spawn user sessions on servers at all yet?
[14:55] <xnox> and how to do that?
[14:56] <jodh> xnox / neomantra: we don't really support console login environments yet.
[15:00] <jodh> neomantra: you could arrange for the system upstart to start a session init as your user, then "join" that session using something like 'export UPSTART_SESSION=`initctl list|awk '{print $2}'` before running 'start $job', but that assumes there is only 1 session init instance running for the user.
[15:03] <neomantra> thanks for the responses.    ah, using upstart to start the "user upstart" it makes sense
[15:05] <neomantra> my intention is to have services run as a user on cloud servers.    should i not be using upstart for this?  i'm revamping my infrastructure and thought i'd use it instead of start-stop-daemon
[15:48] <xnox> neomantra: if setuid/setgid stanzas are enough, just add system jobs.
[15:49] <xnox> neomantra: traditionally, userids that run webapps/etal shouldn't have login accounts / shell access at all =)
[15:49] <xnox> neomantra: such that those jobs are executed as non-priviledged users.
[15:50] <neomantra> xnox: that's a good point.    but i want users to be able to push configuration and then start/stop jobs...   but not do anything privileged
[15:50] <neomantra> their jobs
[15:51] <xnox> neomantra: for that case, user session / jobs sounds nicer.
[15:53] <neomantra> so i have system upstart starting the "init --user"  with setuid/gid as my user.    still need the upstart session variable.   the "initctl list|awk" doesn't seem to work
[19:22] <elmo> hmm
[19:22] <elmo> configure.ac:11: option `serial-tests' not recognized
[19:22] <elmo> autoreconf: automake failed with exit status: 1
[19:23] <elmo> ah, looks like I need saucy automake ; will file a bug about build-depends
[23:02] <xnox> elmo: or you can remove "serial-tests", introduced in automake1.12. we are in discussion with automake upstream about the whole test issues.
[23:03] <xnox> elmo: i don't think in upstream we have "serial-tests" specified, due to resulting in higher automake dependancy.


 I hit 10TB of Upload
 Hollyyhell
 In 7 days
 I don't hit 1tb in a month
 Well, really in 5 days as I was in North Carolina part of the time.


[00:44] <cj> hey folks
[00:45] <cj> valorie: you and Paul both?
[00:46] <cj> is there anyone here around 18 who would like to join the WA state guard?  I've been asked to recruit two folks
[00:47] <cj> we're especially looking for fit 18-year-old folks who want to carry rifles as part of the governor's honor guard
[00:49] <cj> is Paul going to be back home any time soon?
[00:49] <cj> he seems like the prime candidate
[14:20] <valorie> cj, Paul is here?
[14:20] <valorie> if so, first I have heard of it


[05:23] <Burgundavia> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-planet-editorial-policy
[05:23] <Burgundavia> mdke: &
[05:23] <Burgundavia> ^
[05:24] <tonyyarusso> nice
[07:08] <nixternal> Burgundavia: good deal on the planet spec. Why they made a deal out of something the entire blogosphere was blogging is beyond me, plus yesterday on CNBC they talked about an official release by Dell concerning the topic anyways
[07:08] <Burgundavia> nixternal: corporate embargo was the issue
[07:09] <nixternal> truthfully the issue was null, except in one case I feel where the actual employee blogged about it
[07:09] <nixternal> he should have known better
[07:12] <tonyyarusso> I think he honestly thought it had been okayd already
[07:12] <nixternal> very well could have been, but what happened today really irritated me as well as many others
[07:13] <tonyyarusso> yup
[07:13] <nixternal> that is why I have stayed off the planet all day today and yesterday, contemplating
[07:13] <tonyyarusso> I just re-planetified my post on the topic
[07:14] <nixternal> so I noticed
[07:14] <nixternal> I think you and Jerome were the first 2 I heard about being censored
[07:15] <Burgundavia> tonyyarusso self censored
[07:15] <nixternal> ahh
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> halfway
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> I made it not show on planet, but did not remove my post as some did
[07:16] <nixternal> trying to explain to people that this was in fact a big deal for Linux in the "CONSUMER" market has been a pain
[07:16] <Burgundavia> well, Dell is really playing it down
[07:16] <Burgundavia> their blog talks about previous offerings
[07:16] <Burgundavia> dell.com hs nothing
[07:16] <nixternal> granted you were always able to purchase Red Hate, SUSE, and at one time VA Linux on Dell equipment, none of them were consumer
[07:17] <nixternal> Red hate ey, hat that is
[07:18] <nixternal> I hope these new laptops they do will be cheaper than their current offerings, otherwise it won't go to far outside of our world
[07:18] <nixternal> HP/Compaq tried it a few years back and never lowered their prices
[07:18] <nixternal> so that little deal flopped
[07:18] <Burgundavia> according to dell they will be
[07:18] <tonyyarusso> Oh?
[07:18] <nixternal> granted there has been a lot of changes since then as well
[07:19] <nixternal> I sure hope so, however it might not be enough for me to purchase one just yet until Dell (Michael Dell) can get the company straightened back out
[07:19] <nixternal> which I sure hope he does
[07:19] <nixternal> before he left Dell was untouchable as they had great hardware, prices, and support
[07:19] <nixternal> he took that break and all hell broke loose
[07:20] <nixternal> HP/Compaq still has the deal that allows you to deny the EULA and get some cash back, that is why I purchased this lappy
[07:21] <nixternal> I wanted either an IBM or a Dell, but neither would work with me
[07:21] <nixternal> Dell offered the N series with subpar hardware at IBM prices, and IBM, well they have IBM prices :)
[07:40] <ubotu> New bug: #111686 in xubuntu-docs (main) "no sound" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111686
[07:47] <crimsun> uh, xubuntu-docs?
[07:48] <crimsun> ...
[08:15] <crimsun> hmm, where is that confounded git branch?
[08:27] <mdke> morning
[08:36] <Burgundavia> morening mdke
[08:36] <Burgundavia> seems the world is right again
[08:38] <mdke> jolly good
[09:43] <CIA-27> ow
[02:30] <shirish> guys I made a stupid wiki pagename, now I want to change it or delete the page so can start afresh, can anybody tell me how to go about it?
[03:16] <hauks> jadda
[05:39] <ubotu> New bug: #111775 in ubuntu-doc "sabayon has a very thin man page " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111775
[05:41] <ubotu> New bug: #111772 in ubuntu-doc "very superficial info. on fsck" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111772
[12:12] <mdke> last chance for reviewing https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04 - any problems please let me know