[00:55] <valorie> restarting to see if that helped. thanks clivejo sgclark
[00:55] <valorie> I mean, after the purge
[00:56] <ahoneybun> hola valorie
[00:56] <valorie> hola
[00:56] <valorie> bbiam
[00:56]  * ahoneybun is tired
[01:01] <valorie> looks like that worked
 for me removing amarok-common package helped.
[08:02] <soee> :(
[09:54] <clivejo> valorie: what PPA's did you have added?
[09:55]  * clivejo is liking the Muon PM
[09:56] <clivejo> learn so much in here.  Id never heard of calligra now use it all the time
[11:10] <clivejo> sitter: is KCI down?
[11:14] <sitter> looks that way
[11:53] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:26] <soee> https://chakraos.org/news/index.php?/archives/169-Big-update-includes-Plasma-5.6.1,-Frameworks-5.20.0-and-important-package-groups.html
[13:27] <BluesKaj> yeah soee when is it coming our way?
[13:28] <soee> no idea ;D
[13:29] <BluesKaj> exactly , the devs are very quiet about it, have you noticed?
[13:30] <soee> well they cant do nothing now when Ubuntu is in FF stage
[13:30] <soee> so no chanche to get it into Kubuntu before 16.04 is released
[13:32] <BluesKaj> yeah , I heard that too, not good for kubuntu xenial's reputatation IMO
[13:33] <BluesKaj> oops reputation
[13:33] <soee> it was always like that so i think everybody get used to it (Feature Freeze)
[13:33] <BluesKaj> it upsets me so that i can't spell :-)
[13:34] <marco-parillo> My understanding is bug fix only from now until end of April, then backports. P.S. Manjaro stable is at 5.6.1.
[13:34] <soee> yup :)
[13:34] <BluesKaj> chakra
[13:34] <soee> but hey after 16.04 release Neon shoudl have stable Users iso
[13:35] <soee> based on this LTS release, so we will have access to latets Plasma, apps, frameworks stuff when they are released :)
[13:36] <BluesKaj> caution is the word since 16.04 is a LTS, I suppose
[15:48] <clivejo> o/ soee
[15:48] <soee> \o
[15:48]  * soee configuring vps ...
[15:49] <clivejo> what vps?
[15:49] <clivejo> our new CI platform?
[15:50] <soee> my private VPS :D
[15:55] <clivejo> what does it do?


[00:34] <Azelphur> what's that open source alternative to dropbox?
[00:35] <dutchie> spideroak?
[00:35] <dutchie> sparkleshare?
[00:35] <Azelphur> one of those two :P
[00:37] <dutchie> :P
[00:42] <shauno> I setup spideroak because it had the popey seal of aproval.  and then never touched it again
[00:44] <Azelphur> haha
[00:58] <shauno> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2539600212.png  and this is why we use the internet at 1am :)
[01:11] <popey> i dropped spideroak because it was way too cumbersome
[06:04] <rml_home> ning
[08:16] <diplo> Morning all
[08:59] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:14] <BigRedS> Good Morning!
[09:15] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[10:50] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:56] <einonm> Morning
[10:57] <brobostigon> morning einonm
[11:12] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:14] <czajkowski> davmor2: GOOOOOOOOO MORNING
[11:15] <czajkowski> anoyone else noticed he's stopped picking on me now that he has to deal with me 24/7 at work :)
[11:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: I think you have watched too much cadbury cream egg adverts
[11:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: wait till thursday I'm saving up all the abuse till then :P
[11:16] <czajkowski> oh joy!
[11:16] <czajkowski> Laney: popey we're in the office next thursday if yer about
[11:16] <popey> ooh
[11:17] <SuperMatt> I've been to the southwark office... it's eerily quiet in there
[11:18] <Laney> fraid not
[11:18] <Laney> especially now that i have to pay full price(!) for trains
[11:19] <czajkowski> Laney: welcome to adult world
[11:20] <directhex> bah
[11:20] <directhex> bloody kids
[11:20] <directhex> get off my lawn
[11:20] <davmor2> directhex: you shake you walking stick at him when you do that
[11:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: hiding behind people won't protect you from the on coming storm ;)
[11:21] <Laney> czajkowski: I DON'T LIKE IT LET ME GO BACK
[11:21] <Laney> The place where I used to make dens and go exploring as a kid is now a new build estate >:(
[11:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: you boo'd me I believe
[11:26] <popey> i just made a pirate map for sam
[11:26] <popey> i am going to hide his coins in the garden
[11:27] <czajkowski> can we clone sam
[11:28] <popey> heh
[11:28] <popey> he's started swimming
[11:28] <popey> its so cute, and gets me out of the house for an hour
[11:28] <dwatkins> those coins are an awesome idea, popey
[11:28] <popey> yeah, they are fun
[11:29] <czajkowski> whoo 15 tickets left
[11:29] <czajkowski> and just sent a reminder out, now lets hope 55 people don't just cancel
[11:56] <Azelphur> just set solicitors on my landlord. xD
[11:56] <czajkowski> why ?
[11:57] <Azelphur> a list of disrepair as long as my arm
[12:22] <davmor2> popey: you may hate covers but come on a £10 is way cheaper than £122
[12:23] <davmor2> get over your case fears already ;)
[12:32] <ali1234> directhex: amusingly enough light-themes not only are poorly thought out, they also don't follow the theme spec and rely on bugs in metacity to even work - bugs which have been fixed in mutter.
[12:33] <ali1234> actually that might be the same thing BigRedS reported
[12:38] <ali1234> actually tbh i still think radiance is the best theme
[12:38] <ali1234> when it works properly
[12:44] <popey> davmor2: it's not a fear of cases, I just don't like holding phones which have covers. the bumpers are less crap than a full cover imo
[12:45] <popey> but I quite like the feel of an iphone 4s for example, the glass and metal feels nice in the hands
[12:45] <popey> the n4 is unweildly large for my hands. i may look at a bumper for it
[12:48] <directhex> ali1234, yeah, no comment on the quality of those
[12:54] <ali1234> BigRedS: how do i make guake work?
[12:55] <dwatkins> hooray, resetting my BIOS has stopped my Ubuntu machine from crashing when encoding video :D
[12:56] <dwatkins> Now I can continue to put my blu-rays onto my NAS
[12:56] <BigRedS> ali1234: what do you want it to do? Install it, run it
[12:56] <BigRedS> I think by default it drops down with F11
[12:58]  * dwatkins notes that guake.org isn't very forthcoming about this
[12:58] <BigRedS> Ah, that's where it was handy that for bloody ages unity opened up guake-config when asked for guake
[12:58] <dwatkins> haha wow, neither is its manpage
[13:00] <ali1234> BigRedS: installed it, ran it, nothing happened
[13:00] <ali1234> ran it from terminal and it crashed: gio.Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.Notifications.MaxNotificationsExceeded: Exceeded maximum number of notifications
[13:00] <BigRedS> Ah, maybe F12 makes it drop-down. F11 is full-screen
[13:01] <ali1234> nope, nothing
[13:01] <BigRedS> I've been copying my ~ round for so long that I've not seen its default in ages now
[13:01] <BigRedS> does guake-prefs do anything?
[13:01] <BigRedS> that should give you the preferences window
[13:01] <ali1234> yes
[13:01] <ali1234> it says F12
[13:01] <BigRedS> Oh
[13:02] <dwatkins> I tend to just fullscreen my terminal with F11 or just ctrl+alt+F1 if I'm feeling nostalgic ;)
[13:02] <BigRedS> strange. That bit always worked...
[13:02] <ali1234> well, i don't know. but try hacking the theme
[13:03] <directhex> tilde!
[13:03] <BigRedS> Well, I'm on Debian now where the theme works :)
[13:04] <popey> guake works here on raring
[13:04] <BigRedS> I figure I should be able to just copy the debian default across and that'll Just Work? I really don'tfancy my chances at guessing a workable theme...
[13:04] <ali1234> but what about the theme popey? :)
[13:05] <BigRedS> I've tried messing with what my UI looks like before and I've never managed a net improvement
[13:05] <ali1234> the gtk3 bug actually affects quite a lot of themes
[13:05] <ali1234> or rather, the failure of theme developers to make themes that follow the spec
[13:05] <BigRedS> this is adwaita which seems workable
[13:05] <ali1234> most of the real bugs are in metacity
[13:06] <ali1234> yeah that is the gnome default theme... so it works properly
[13:06] <ali1234> it's about the only one
[13:06] <BigRedS> ahh
[13:07] <BigRedS> Should it be present in a gnome-shell install on Ubuntu? I don't think it was but I'm not convinced I looked...
[13:07] <ali1234> yes
[13:07] <popey> yeah, the theme is busted
[13:07] <BigRedS> I think I was looking for a reference to 'light-themes' in a config and didn't find any, so probably skipped one called 'radiance' or whatever
[13:07] <ali1234> BigRedS: gnome-tweak-tool
[13:07] <BigRedS> yeah
[13:07] <ali1234> yeah ambiance and radiance
[13:08] <ali1234> first is the dark one second is the light one
[13:08] <BigRedS> but I think when the bug got reassigned to 'light-themes' I assumed that was the theme, so wanted to find something that had set a theme to 'light'
[13:08] <ali1234> i don't know why they are called light themes only one of them is light coloured and neither is light on memory and cpu
[13:09] <popey> "Ubuntu Light" was a thing
[13:09] <popey> probably came from that
[13:16] <ali1234> installed it in virtualbox
[13:18] <ali1234> actually now i think about it it isn't related to the metacity theme stuff, because that's a separate theme
[13:22] <dwatkins> as opposed to lubuntu and xubuntu...
[13:22] <dwatkins> ...and jolicloud and others
[16:05] <redtape-renegade> Hi AlanBell ; I have a private question .. So I will PM you & I'll be finished asking in 10 minutes .. Ok ??
[16:09]  * BigRedS is intrigued now
[16:21] <BigRedS> doing an apt-get update I get a 404 for http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-i386/Packages
[16:21] <BigRedS> why isn't it looking for Packages.gz or Packages.bz2?
[16:25] <Azelphur> does royal mail special delivery have a cut off time? :P
[16:26] <Azelphur> for next day delivery, I mean
[16:26] <czajkowski> EOD
[16:26] <czajkowski> ?
[16:26] <Azelphur> end of day works
[16:26] <BigRedS> Oh, not bomb disposal?
[16:28] <Laney> 1pm
[16:28] <Laney> or you can pay more for 9am
[16:29] <Laney> or do you mean for sending?!?!?!
[16:30] <czajkowski> Laney: is bendy and all that but not sure we could fit him in a post box
[16:30] <czajkowski> but it is worth trying
[16:30]  * Laney remembers http://youtu.be/Pk8w4vMgBZ4
[16:32] <czajkowski> folks may be interested in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
[16:37] <ali1234> "Due to Daily Quality efforts, the development release is now usable every day" lol
[16:37] <ali1234> if only that were actually true
[16:38] <ali1234> this is another good one "Take a monthly snapshot of the development release, which we support only until the next snapshot"
[16:38] <ali1234> considering that getting bugs fixed in ubuntu currently takes about 2 years
[16:38] <ali1234> i can only assume that this basically means "don't support it at all"
[16:44] <BigRedS> hahaha, I tried 13.04 for a bit
[16:46] <ali1234> i think the main motivation behind this is they are running out of letters and obscure animals
[16:47] <BigRedS> I've basically spent today dealing with broken ubuntus. I'm essentially in favour of anything that makes Ubuntu more Debian right now
[16:47] <BigRedS> though I'm not sure how Ubuntu's development process would deal with "release it when it's ready"
[16:48] <yarinse> Where konversation keeps the configurations? In which folder?
[16:48] <ali1234> i do think it's a good idea not to support interim releases for 2 years
[16:49] <ali1234> but monthly dev snapshots is not useful at all
[16:50] <ali1234> there is simply zero chance of anything getting fixed in that time, so you may as well just stay on the latest development version at all times and pray it works
[16:50] <BigRedS> No, just ship fixes when they happen
[16:51] <ali1234> i would prefer a 6 month interim release as now, but supported for only 6 months
[16:51] <BigRedS> well, stuff's already not getting fixed in six-month snapshot releases
[16:54] <ali1234> 6 months is about how long it takes before ubuntu needs a reinstall
[16:55] <BigRedS> I've had installs last way longer than that, quite happily
[16:55] <ali1234> on servers or machines you don't use much
[16:55] <ali1234> like my mythtv server is quite happy on LTS releases
[16:55] <BigRedS> nah, I think my home pc is four or five releases old
[16:55] <ali1234> on development workstation i install so much stuff, most of which is not packaged, that it eventually just crumbles
[16:56] <BigRedS> I hardly use it now, but I was using it a fair but intil a bit before christmas
[16:56] <BigRedS> ah, yeah, but I don't use Ubuntu on that sort of machine
[16:57] <BigRedS> It's too hard to work out what all the side-effects of doing something the 'wrong' way will be
[16:57] <ali1234> i don't worry about it and just reinstall every 6 months
[16:57] <ali1234> upgrade never works properly anyway
[16:58] <ali1234> the few times i tried it i ended up reinstalling within 1 month
[16:58] <BigRedS> You say that, I've still only managed to break inter-release upgrades in Debian
[16:58] <BigRedS> and that was Etch/sarge days
[16:58] <ali1234> so if this plan goes down i'll have a choice between a system that works for 6 months and then is broken for 18 months (LTS releases)
[16:59] <ali1234> or fully reinstalling every month
[16:59] <ali1234> or a system that never works properly ever again
[16:59] <BigRedS> what breaks on a dist-upgrade? or a do-release-upgrade if we want to be all modern and ubuntuy?
[16:59] <BigRedS> That's one thing that, ime, *always* works
[16:59] <ali1234> configuration files mainly
[17:00] <BigRedS> ah yeah, we do still need an elegant way of dealing with those
[17:00] <ali1234> also last time i upgraded i ended up with a situation where apt wanted to both install and remove java
[17:00] <BigRedS> that sounds very aptitude
[17:01] <BigRedS> it's like apt's younger, drunker, stupid brother
[17:01] <ali1234> i have never used aptitude, this was update-manager
[17:01] <BigRedS> oh, I've never used that
[17:01] <BigRedS> I guess that's apt-get in the background?
[17:01] <ali1234> i only ever use official ubuntu methods when possible
[17:01] <ali1234> sort of. it also has some own rules for resolving dependencies
[17:02] <BigRedS> yeah, I try to but some habits die hard
[17:02] <ali1234> i have never used debian. i tried once. i couldn't even manage to install it
[17:02] <ali1234> installer just bombed out with package dependency errors
[17:03] <BigRedS> when was that? I think I started using debian 'cause it was the first distro I could get the installer to work on
[17:03] <ali1234> about 2006
[17:04] <ali1234> i ended up installing gentoo instead, because the instructions actually worked
[17:04] <BigRedS> sarge/etchish, yeah that was a bit after I started using it
[17:05] <ali1234> debian is about the only major distro i've never been able to even install
[17:05] <ali1234> even suse was easier to install... it went rapidly downhill from there though
[17:06] <ali1234> another proble i hit with debian is the installer would pop up loads of debconf windows and ask me for obscure information
[17:06] <ali1234> like "please type in your BIND configuration from scratch in this editor window now LOL"
[17:06] <BigRedS> haha, yeah suse was great until you had to do something with yast and it broke everything
[17:06] <ali1234> in the middle of the installer
[17:07] <BigRedS> I think I just entered nothing for any question I didn't understand, and got a roughly workable system at the end of it
[17:07] <ali1234> yeah that's what i tried... it didn't work
[17:08] <ali1234> actually you know
[17:08] <ali1234> i think this monthly snapshot idea is good
[17:08] <BigRedS> hm, fair enough. I'm still a bit surprised Debian haven't stolen the ubuntu installer
[17:09] <BigRedS> d-i's not *bad* IME, but it's really poor in graphical mode. You can see it's just a graphical version of the cursesy interface
[17:09] <ali1234> i mean someone can always maintain a release if it is a particularly good one
[17:09] <ali1234> as with linux
[17:09] <ali1234> and they won't have to necessarily stick to six months
[17:09] <ali1234> they can wait a month if it's not quite ready
[17:10] <ali1234> trouble is i doubt anyone will bother
[17:14] <BigRedS> ah yeah, especially for the people who make ubunut derivatives but don't want to have to wait for LTSs
[17:14] <BigRedS> but it's a lot of effort to support the entirety of even whatever subset a derivative picks
[17:15] <ali1234> not really
[17:15] <ali1234> if you're not modifying anything it is just a matter of backporting fixes
[17:16] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, I forgot there'd be the next month's to grab the fixes out of...
[17:17] <ali1234> the problem with derivates is they go off and patch everything and then have to keep rebasing their changes
[17:17] <ali1234> which as we all know, is virtually impossible with bzr
[17:23] <Azelphur> spent ages with everyone being irritated by continual waves of brazilian people coming to my server and mic spamming, figured out I had sv_region set to south america, derp.
[17:26] <ali1234> lol
[17:26] <BigRedS> I love problems like that
[17:26] <BigRedS> especially when other peopel have them
[17:27] <ali1234> slightly related, do non-english TF2 communities have their own micspam memes that we've never heard of? or is billy mays a global thing?
[17:27] <BigRedS> but, that reminds me, I've been asked for a counterstrike server. How resource hungry are they? Also, got an idiot-proof howto?
[17:59] <Azelphur> BigRedS: what type of counter strike
[17:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: I dunno, I don't understand them to find out :P
[18:19] <BigRedS> Azelphur: er
[18:19] <BigRedS> there's different sorts?
[18:19]  * BigRedS is a *massive* gamer
[18:19] <Azelphur> yep
[18:19] <BigRedS> the old one?
[18:19] <Azelphur> the really really old one?
[18:19] <Azelphur> that'd be CS 1.6
[18:19] <BigRedS> probably. Not Source
[18:19] <Azelphur> yea, not source
[18:20] <Azelphur> dunno about resources on that, not much
[18:20] <BigRedS> oh good! :)
[18:20] <Azelphur> are you looking for hosting?
[18:20] <BigRedS> Nah, I work at a hosting company
[18:20] <Azelphur> ah ok then
[18:20] <Azelphur> just allocate it a single core
[18:20] <Azelphur> and it should be fine
[18:20] <BigRedS> But we don't normally do games, and there doesn't seem to be an apt-get install counterstrike-server
[18:20] <bigcalm> Grrr at "Missing executable" in Steam
[18:20] <Azelphur> BigRedS: you know CS:Source is native now, right?
[18:20] <BigRedS> Ah, it's all single-threaded? So a really quick single core makes more sense than many slow ones?
[18:21] <BigRedS> Nope!
[18:21] <Azelphur> for all intense and purposes it's single threaded
[18:21] <BigRedS> Heh, if CS:S is easier I might just do that and feign misunderstanding :)
[18:21] <Azelphur> it does have threads, they just arn't balanced at all
[18:21] <Azelphur> yea, afaik 1.6 is windows only for now
[18:21] <Azelphur> where as source is native
[18:21] <BigRedS> Oh, right. I'll go with source. It sounds like less hassle
[18:22] <Azelphur> the server is linux on either of em
[18:22] <Azelphur> but the client is native linux on source
[18:22] <Azelphur> :)
[18:22] <Azelphur> BigRedS: are you planning on loading a lot of plugins?
[18:22] <Azelphur> if not, 256MB is ok I think :)
[18:23] <Azelphur> havn't ran CS:S in a long time, I mostly do TF2
[18:23] <Azelphur> (although my server plugins work on CS:S too :P)
[18:23] <BigRedS> plugins? Whoah
[18:23] <BigRedS> I've not really planned anything :)
[18:23] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:23] <BigRedS> what would I use plugins for? New  weapons/game modes?
[18:23] <Azelphur> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1204192 greatest plugin ever </shameless plug>
[18:24] <BigRedS> Oh, all sorts
[18:24] <Azelphur> yep, all sorts
[18:24] <BigRedS> yeah, not knowingly
[18:24] <Azelphur> everything from new game modes to irc ;)
[18:26] <BigRedS> And that's happy with a bunch of slow cores?
[18:26] <BigRedS> 'cause that's a good description of my HV :)
[18:27] <Azelphur> nope
[18:27] <Azelphur> pretty much everything valve is rape a single core
[18:27] <BigRedS> bag
[18:27] <BigRedS> bah, even
[18:28] <Azelphur> I have a big dedi in NYC I run my empire on
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> you're an emperor?
[18:38] <Azelphur> yep
[18:38] <Azelphur> XD
[18:42] <BigRedS> When we sold dedicated machines in NY the product was called 'empire' IIRC
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> well it's the empire state..
[18:45]  * mgdm is currently playing with his new dedicated box in France
[18:45] <mgdm> (it's cheap)
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: gandi.net?
[18:45]  * MartijnVdS has a vps in the uk
[18:45] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: OVH
[18:46] <mgdm> It's running SmartOS, which is fun, 'cos I've never done Solaris before
[19:03] <BigRedS> ooh, is that what became of opensolaris?
[19:04] <popey> slowlaris *snerk*
[19:05] <BigRedS> Oh, no, I've come across this before!
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> popey: slowloris? :)
[19:05] <BigRedS> I meant to have a play with it but still haven't got around to it
[19:06] <dwatkins> is Solaris really slow, or is it just that it runs on what are now fairly old machines (with non-Intel CPUs)?
[19:06] <popey> there is x86 solaris
[19:06] <BigRedS> solaris is run on x86 plenty
[19:06] <popey> Sun shipped X86-64 AMD boxes for some time
[19:06] <popey> they were quite pokey
[19:06] <popey> and spendy
[19:06] <dwatkins> I regret throwing out an old SPARC-based pizza box.
[19:07] <dwatkins> Might see if I can get another just for playing with.
[19:07] <dwatkins> I may even have to see about interfacing a compact-flash card to it so I don't have to worry about the age of a SCSI disk.
[19:27] <redtape-renegade> Best quote of the day:: Do you Want To Go Out And Meditate With Grandma ?? http://youtu.be/DHwKXy4zElA?t=1m49s
[19:29] <mgdm> BigRedS: sort of. There's lots of forks of OpenSolaris. SmartOS is the kernel + a bit of the userland, but it's designed for running KVM virtual machines on ZFS storage
[19:29] <mgdm> BigRedS: there's also OmniOS and a few others
[19:36] <Darael> Hmmm.  Compiz supports multiple desktops as well as multiple workspaces, but only appears to provide mechanisms for changing between the latter.
[19:39] <dwatkins> changing in which sense, Darael?
[19:40] <dwatkins> If I run a secondary X server, I can switch to it with ctrl+alt+F8
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> should be yes
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> if you start it as X :1
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> I think that's how user switching works as well
[19:41] <dwatkins> I enabled the cube, it's all kinds of pointless, but it's fun.
[19:41] <Darael> Nah.  Not the same thing.  The Metacity concept referred to as "desktops" is actually distinct from the Compiz Workspaces.
[19:41] <dwatkins> having two monitors with a desktop cube is fun.
[19:41] <dwatkins> What is it, Darael?
[19:41] <popey> i thought desktops == workspaces
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> no
[19:41] <popey> just a synonym
[19:41] <Darael> They function the same way, but they're seperate.
[19:42] <Darael> I can demonstrate this with the machine I'm on.
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> Darael: they function similarly, but they're different
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> In ole tymes you used to be able to move apps between workspaces, but not between desktops
[19:42] <Darael> However, Compiz actually appears to support both, but only *switching* support for workspaces.
[19:43] <Darael> All this within a single X server, of course.
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> ah:
[19:44] <dwatkins> ooooh, xinerama days
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> it's all inherited from fvwm days :)
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> that allows you to have several "desks" which can have a set of "workspaces" each
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> so you have a "Work" desk and a "Home" desk, and the "Work" desk has a workspace for your editor + compiler, work mail, etc.
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> and the "Home" one has one for home mail, and other "home" things
[19:46] <dwatkins> ah yes, the nightmarish grid
[19:47] <Darael> Disclaimer:  Right now I'm on a uni machine which is running some modified version of Precise with what appears to be GNOME Classic (eg gnome-panel 1:3.4.1-0ubuntu1.1 [...]).  The workspace switcher applet displays workspaces by default, but if any change is made to the number of *desktops* it shows only them.  Workspace switching works by the usual keyboard shortcuts, and I can get to a different *desktop* by clicking ...
[19:47] <Darael> ... the switcher (though I have to jump some hoops to get back, since the panel runs only on desktop 1).
[19:48] <Darael> What interests me is that Compiz allows multiple desktops but (as I mentioned) appears to have no way to configure ways of switching between them.
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> (unrelated.. tonight's music recommendation: http://open.spotify.com/album/0mEgjSX0fTulFtZFNs46Bg )
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> Darael: can't you bind keys to the events?
[19:49] <Darael> Hmm?
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> Darael: I assume you can set keys to "Switch desktop" or something in a generic key binding editor?
[19:50]  * mgdm wants an addon for Chrome that will split the screen the same way Terminator can
[19:50] <mgdm> sadly, the only one I could find doesn't work at all on multiple monitors
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: you mean like blender does?
[19:50] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: Blender as in the 3D thing, or something else?
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> 3d
[19:50] <mgdm> I've not used it since around 1999 :)
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> it has its own internal "window management"
[19:51] <dwatkins> FVWM: Will it blend?
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> that allows you to split windows horizontally or vertically
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: let's find out!
[19:51] <mgdm> well, in Terminator, you right-click and you can get 'split horizonally' or 'split vertically' options
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: so yes, similar :)
[19:51] <mgdm> iTerm2 on OSX does the same thing
[19:52] <dwatkins> I think tmux does vertical and horizontal splitting.
[19:52] <mgdm> yes
[19:52] <dwatkins> screen doesn't, which is a shame.
[19:52] <mgdm> Are you sure?
[19:52] <mgdm> I could have sworn I did it in screen once, though it was TREMENDOUS FAFF
[19:53] <Darael> Actually, the version of screen in Ubuntu includes the patch for splitting... whichever way the default doesn't.
[19:53] <dwatkins> ah, that may be it
[19:53] <mgdm> http://news.softpedia.com/news/GNU-Screen-Tutorial-44274.shtml
[19:53] <Darael> IIRC.
[19:53] <Darael> I use tmux, so I'm not particularly bothered.
[19:53] <mgdm> iTerm2 is cunning in that it can display tmux split windows using native widgets
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:53] <mgdm> (which I've not tried, but it looks cool)
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> gnome-terminal should implement that :)
[19:53] <mgdm> requires a patch for tmux, though
[19:54] <mgdm> I've not used gnome-terminal since terminator existed
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> I've tried terminator, but I can't get used to it
[19:55] <mgdm> at work I have a 27" iMac that spends much of its time witha  full-screen iterm2 running 3 vertically-split terminals :-)
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> we need ANSI sequences for 3D
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> so you can actually use the GPU from your terminal
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> ANSI-GL
[19:56] <dwatkins> mgdm: I tend to run iterm2 fullscreen on my Mac a lot
[19:56] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: heh heh
[19:56] <dwatkins> I'd use Cathode as a terminal, but it uses the GPU too much
[19:56] <mgdm> hehe, oh yeah
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: and you could implement the "Jurassic Park" interface in shell
[19:57] <mgdm> most of my work is a terminal and a web browser, both full screen, just alt-tab between
[19:57] <mgdm> Oh, and often Sequel Pro too
[19:57] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: hah
[19:57]  * mgdm is reminded of mplayer -vo aa
[19:58]  * dwatkins grins
[19:58] <dwatkins> I wonder if the Mac version has that
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: not -vo caca? that's similar but with colours
[19:58] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: yeah, but aa has been there loger
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> but we have colour screens now!
[19:59] <mgdm> aa had a better frame rate on my 600MHz Celeron back in the day
[20:00] <mgdm> (also I'm going to go back to referring to Hertz as 'cycles'. It's much cooler.)
[20:00] <mgdm> 'My laptop runs at 600 megacycles' etc
[20:04] <directhex> mgdm, dont use "mega", actually use the number
[20:04] <directhex> i.e. million and so on
[20:04] <mgdm> I might have to do that for giga, etc, but there is something cool about 'mega' and 'kilo'
[20:04] <directhex> hyper!
[20:05] <mgdm> now you're channeling Scooter
[20:05] <mgdm> which is a form of retro could do without
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> HYPER HYPER
[20:06] <dwatkins> I replaced my IBM Model M keyboard's function keys with red ones, like on the Archimedes
[20:08] <mgdm> nice :)
[20:08] <mgdm> that'd look really silly on my Mac keyboard, though :(
[20:09] <mgdm> we have older-style Mac keyboards at work (the ones with full-size keys) that are coloured to work with Avid video editing stuff
[20:09] <mgdm> they look quite cool
[20:09] <dwatkins> I have a USB adapter cable for it, mgdm - it works with my Mac :)
[20:10] <mgdm> I mean the other way around - my Mac keyboard would look odd with big clicky function keys on :-)
[20:10] <mgdm> also I'm not a fan of the Model M
[20:13] <dwatkins> Blasphemy! ;)
[20:26] <mgdm> heh, so I hear
[20:26] <ali1234> it's too loud
[20:27] <ali1234> if someone made one that was as quiet as a membrane it would be great
[20:46] <redtape-renegade> What is the quickest way to-do a word count on a pdf ??
[20:47] <redtape-renegade> OR alternatively :: Can you tell me how many words (in English) are in the Ubuntu Manual ???
[20:47] <redtape-renegade> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[20:48] <mgdm> pdftotext thing.pdf | wc
[20:48] <mgdm> ?
[20:50] <ali1234> not always
[20:50] <redtape-renegade> Can't someone just tell me . Please ?
[20:50] <ali1234> probably would work with that one though
[20:51] <ali1234> when you say "how many words in english" what do you mean exactly?
[20:51] <redtape-renegade> I mean how many words are there ?? It happens to be in English.
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: and he told you how to figure it out yourself :)
[20:52] <redtape-renegade> I'm trying, I'm trying...
[20:53] <ali1234> doesn't work
[20:56] <redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5574517/ Any help here .. I dont know WTH I'm doing ???
[20:59] <ali1234> you need to escape the spaces in file name
[21:04] <redtape-renegade> ok hangon..
[21:06] <redtape-renegade> nope I didn't get it ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/5574539/
[21:06] <dwatkins> did you rename the file, redtape-renegade?
[21:07] <redtape-renegade> no
[21:07] <dwatkins> you're trying to get pdftotext to open a file that doesn't exist, rename it to include the underscores then try the first one again.
[21:07] <redtape-renegade> do you want me to ?
[21:07] <redtape-renegade> oh ok..
[21:07] <dwatkins> if you want the command not to fail with "couldn't open file" ;)
[21:09] <redtape-renegade> nope still doesn't work .. and I did it perfect..
[21:10] <redtape-renegade> can someone just download this and tell me please ?
[21:10] <redtape-renegade> it's only 9MB
[21:10] <shauno> let the shell do the thinking for you.  pdftotext Getting and then hit tab.  it'll escape it for you
[21:11] <redtape-renegade> ok trying that ...
[21:12] <redtape-renegade> it doesn't do anything .. it just does nothing when I do that ..
[21:14] <ali1234> it doesn't work already
[21:14] <ali1234> i already downloaded it and ran the command
[21:14] <ali1234> it outputs 0
[21:14] <redtape-renegade> Well how do I find out how many words are in the doc . ?
[21:14] <redtape-renegade> Can I do this on winblows ?
[21:15] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: load it in to Acrobat, perhaps there's a word count tool
[21:15] <redtape-renegade> ok..
[21:15] <dwatkins> ah, sorry - you'd need to convert it for that, it seems
[21:16] <dwatkins> or open it, copy all the text into a text editor, save and use 'wc' on that if you can't convert at the command line
[21:16] <dwatkins> what PDF are you word-cunting, redtape-renegade - I'll see if I can do it here
[21:16] <dwatkins> *counting sorry
[21:17] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: often, tab-complete fails if there's more than one possible file, so you have to give it the next character
[21:18] <redtape-renegade> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[21:18] <redtape-renegade> i think i need to export it to notepad or something ??
[21:20] <redtape-renegade> Ahh . it does it in Acrobat .. you can export to a txt file :)
[21:20] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: http://hastebin.com/diwagavexi.scala
[21:20] <redtape-renegade> Fast too .. like OCR on steroids
[21:20] <redtape-renegade> opening...
[21:21] <dwatkins> That's what escapaing is.
[21:21] <dwatkins> Using\ backslashes\ for\ all\ the\ spaces.
[21:21] <dwatkins> Interpretting the output of wc is left as an excercise for the reader.
[21:23] <redtape-renegade> oh Ok .. thankyou so much .. I'm going to study your hastebin tonite .. cheers.
[21:25] <dwatkins> cool
[21:26] <Myrtti> I wonder would Nexus 4 fit into the new Nokia car charger
[21:27] <dwatkins> ooh, it has wireless charging, Myrtti - nice
[21:28] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins: So it's 6860 words, I'm not sure ?
[21:31] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: what does the wc manpage say? ;)
[21:31] <dwatkins> (about the output)
[21:47] <jessicapollock> I have no idea if I am in the right place so I apologize in advance. I'm looking for someone who can help me (a complete ubuntu novice) figure out how to make ubuntu connect to the internet.
[21:47] <dwatkins> hi jessicapollock
[21:47] <jessicapollock> Hello dwatkins
[21:47] <dwatkins> welcome to Ubuntu UK, perhaps we can get you online
[21:47] <dwatkins> what's the problem/symptoms?
[21:47] <jessicapollock> That would be much appreciated thank you.
[21:48] <redtape-renegade> I'll come back to you dwatkins .. thanks so far .. good luck jessica & Welcome \o/
[21:48] <dwatkins> np redtape-renegade
[21:49] <jessicapollock> Well, I have windows Vista, which I am using to connect now and chat with you. I installed ubuntu 12.04 to replace my awful OS and when I boot Ubuntu it does not recognize any internet connections wired or otherwise.
[21:49] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: ah I see; what kind of network card or wifi card are you using in Windows to connect?
[21:50] <jessicapollock> Honestly, I am not sure. I am using a rebuilt computer that I purchased  a few years ago.
[21:50] <jessicapollock> I don't even know how to find out.
[21:50] <jessicapollock> Originally all the parts were dell inspiron 1521
[21:50] <dwatkins> if you press the windows key and the 'break' key together, that should open the device list, I believe - you should be able to see from there
[21:51] <dwatkins> ah, device manager is linked from there, anyway
[21:52] <jessicapollock> I have device manager open. what am I looking for?
[21:52] <dwatkins> should have a section called 'network adapters'
[21:52] <dwatkins> I assume you have a physical cable going from the PC to the router, also.
[21:53] <jessicapollock> Not at the moment. It's a wireless connection while on vista but I can change that if need be.
[21:53] <popey> also, a command prompt window and the "ipconfig" command will tell you
[21:53] <dwatkins> ok, should still be something in the list that isn't crossed out
[21:53] <dwatkins> ah yes, thanks popey
[21:53] <jessicapollock> is dell wireless 1390 wlan mini-card what i'm looking for?
[21:54] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: sounds like the kind of information we need, yeah, I'll have a look...
[21:54] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: looks like you'll need to install some packages by using a wired connection in order to get your wireless card to work
[21:54] <dwatkins> (under Ubuntu)
[21:55] <jessicapollock> ubuntu won't recognize my wired connection either though...
[21:55] <dwatkins> is there a wired/ethernet card in the list as well, jessicapollock?
[21:55] <dwatkins> in device manager, that is
[21:56] <jessicapollock> there is a broadcom440x10/100 intergrated controller...
[21:56] <dwatkins> for reference, this should be what you need to do to get the wireless card to work: http://askubuntu.com/questions/87519/how-to-make-my-dell-1390-wlan-minicard-work
[21:56] <jessicapollock> thankyou
[21:57] <dwatkins> does the wired card work under Vista when you plug the cable in, jessicapollock?
[21:57] <jessicapollock> I haven't checked recently but it is how I set up the wireless network originally. I can go plug in if need be.
[21:59] <dwatkins> I'm not entirely certain, but the few pages I've found which refer to that Broadcom card and Ubuntu seem to suggest it should have drivers, so it may be a configuration issue on the PC or the router. The default config in Ubuntu should get a DHCP address, so either 12.04 hasn't installed a working driver, or the router isn't giving you an IP address for some reason, I suspect, when the cable's in and you boot Ubuntu.
[22:00] <directhex> ali1234, ping
[22:01] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: it may simply be a case of manually loading a module, however
[22:01] <jessicapollock> So would re-installing ubuntu help do you think? Originally I used the windows installer to do it.  I'll give it a try.
[22:03] <dwatkins> good luck :)
[22:03] <bigcalm> directhex: in Steam, have you experienced missing executables on freshly installed games? I'm getting that on Shatter
[22:04] <directhex> bigcalm, happens when a game isn't properly uploaded yet
[22:05] <directhex> bigcalm, i.e. clickign "install" doesn't yet download the correct depots, due to misconfiguration by the game publisher
[22:05] <bigcalm> directhex: ah, thanks. I'll delete local content and try installing it again
[22:06] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins : 12936words                                                                                .. aaaaaaaand thank-you.
[22:06] <bigcalm> I've also found that some games start full screen, but see my screen size as that of 3 screens put together. But as it only full screens on the left hand monitor, I don't get to see any controls. A touch annoying
[22:06] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: that wasn't even in my wc output ;)
[22:07] <redtape-renegade> Wow .. A task that took 30 seconds in Win98 took me 1 hour and twenty minutes .. well there you go..
[22:07] <bigcalm> directhex: know if there's a way to force a game not to start full screen? Latest example is Kentucky Route Zero
[22:07] <directhex> bigcalm, NO, THAT'S A PER-GAME QUESTION
[22:07] <directhex> bah, cat loves capslock
[22:07] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: that's often the case when there aren't commandline tools available
[22:07] <bigcalm> directhex: I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE!
[22:07] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: I tend to install putty ;)
[22:07] <bigcalm> :)
[22:07] <ali1234> bigcalm: that's avery common problem which there are various workarounds for
[22:08] <redtape-renegade> I had to use Abiwords .. Crumbs .. it's like I'm back in USSR or something tonite !
[22:08] <ali1234> bigcalm: i documented a few on here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/145528/how-to-run-humble-bundle-v-games-on-a-system-with-nvidia-twinview
[22:08] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: I make it 52659 words, did you not look up how wc displays its output?
[22:08] <bigcalm> What's worse is that my central screen is rotated 90 deg. So the screen size is even larger than physically possible
[22:09] <bigcalm> ali1234: I'll take a look, ta
[22:09] <ali1234> that covers SDL and wine games at least
[22:09] <ali1234> if it's some proprietary engine you are probably screwed unless you use some kind of LD_PRELOAD tricker
[22:09] <ali1234> y
[22:10] <bigcalm> I could try exporting SDL_VIDEO_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY=0 from ~.bashrc
[22:10] <ali1234> i put it in /etc/environment
[22:10] <bigcalm> ~/.bashrc that is
[22:11] <ali1234> it should really be the default since you almost never want games spanning monitors unless they are specifically written with that in mind
[22:11] <ali1234> which virtually no games are
[22:11] <bigcalm> Even less so for me with my central monitor rotation
[22:11] <ali1234> yes
[22:12] <ali1234> any games that can handle your setup would have a very elaborate custom configuration specifically for the job anyway
[22:12] <ali1234> that goes pretty much even for basic dual head
[22:13] <ali1234> the one problem with SDL though is it will grab the mouse pointer even if the game doesn't use mouse. there's a patc for SDL to fix that but upstream refuses to apply it since the only type of game they understand is FPS
[22:15] <redtape-renegade> Anmyway to translate the current Ubuntu Manual in chinese would take £184.17 according to this guy :: http://goo.gl/2eJpU ( with over 200+ positive references.
[22:15] <redtape-renegade> That was the point of all that(which took 2 hours !!) .. anybody fancy going halves ??
[22:16] <dwatkins> there might be some people on the -cn channel who would do it for karma.
[22:17] <ali1234> 184.17 what?
[22:18] <redtape-renegade> GBP.
[22:19] <redtape-renegade> My idea of community is if you can't pay someone who can...
[22:19] <redtape-renegade> My idea of community is if you can't -  pay someone who can...
[22:24] <ali1234> ah... you;re going to pay a general translator to translate a highly technical document?
[22:24] <ali1234> i have a feeling that might not turn out very good
[22:25] <ali1234> you probably need people who both fluent chinese and also know how to use ubuntu in the first place, otherwise you're highly likely to get nonsense even with a very good translator
[22:29] <dwatkins> hence my suggestion of the Chinese Ubuntu channel
[22:29] <dwatkins> !cn
[22:30] <dwatkins> Karma isn't a real and tangible thing, but it may be that some people on there will want to help and having their name in the credits will be payment enough. Worth a try for a few lines of text.
[22:30] <ali1234> sure it is
[22:30] <ali1234> it's right there on launchpad
[22:32] <shauno> translation is rarely that simple.  you end up bouncing between a translator, and a proofreader who understands the subject matter
[22:33] <shauno> (it's rarely as simple as just being fluent in both languages)
[22:34] <ali1234> of course a first draft might be a good way to kick start further development
[22:35] <ali1234> assuming it's not totally awful
[22:39] <shauno> it's an interesting idea, just worth knowing what you're getting into.  and that if you don't find community buy-in, your translation becomes more outdated with each revision, etc
[22:40] <ali1234> does anyone know about terminal resizing?
[22:41] <ali1234> ie how does nano know i resized the xterm window
[22:41] <ali1234> and what would cause this to not work?
[22:43] <shauno> usually if something else is catching SIGWINCH; eg, screen would catch it, and then resend it to its contents
[22:43] <mgdm> is it not sent a signal like SIGWINCH ?
[22:43] <redtape-renegade> shauno: Yeah .. it's a good idea . /that being/ that the translation gets updated, but you need a base first .. otherwise 1345Million people have nothing to go on .. and will not learn the way of the force *cough* Ubuntu.
[22:47] <ali1234> ah, so adb is probably catching a bunch of sgnals and not passing them through...
[22:48] <shauno> I'm not sure it even has to explicitely catch it.  any abstraction layer just means the terminal is sending the signal to the wrong process
[22:49] <ali1234> yes
[22:49] <ali1234> the other problem i have is the enter key doesn't work in nano
[22:49] <ali1234> it works for text editing, but when you enter file name and press enter... nothing happens
[22:49] <ali1234> i'm guessing this is a similar issue
[22:50] <ali1234> i wonder how i could debug this
[22:51] <dwatkins> ali1234: I assume this happens after a reset in the terminal and with a new user account
[22:51] <dwatkins> i.e. no config
[22:51] <ali1234> adb passes through ctrl-c fine though, so i can escape
[22:51] <ali1234> dwatkins: it happens on ubuntu phone
[22:51] <shauno> would adb cause $TERM to not be available to nano?
[22:51] <ali1234> no, $TERM is fine
[22:52] <ali1234> it doesn't seem related to the chroot either because i see other reports on vanilla android
[22:52] <ali1234> so it must be either adb or busybox related
[22:52] <dwatkins> does freenx exist in quantal in a ppa or something?
[22:53] <dwatkins> I tried the one suggested on eht relevant official page but there's no package for 12.10
[22:56] <dwatkins> aha sudo add-apt-repository ppa:freenx-team/testing
[23:09] <ali1234> googling for SIGWINCH allowed me to find this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=35897
[23:09] <ali1234> so it is adb problem


[02:02] <RAOF> Hurray for having next week off. This week is not my most productive ever :/
[08:03] <hikiko> hello
[08:03] <hikiko> alf__, ping!
[08:08] <tvoss> alf__, ping
[08:08] <hikiko> lol I think he has a meeting
[08:10] <alf__> hikiko: pong
[08:10] <alf__> tvoss: pong
[08:10] <robert_ancell> tvoss, ping
[08:10] <robert_ancell> (everyone else was doing it)
[08:11] <alf__> ping-pong madness :)
[08:11] <hikiko> lol
[08:11] <tvoss> man ...
[08:11] <tvoss> robert_ancell, pong
[08:11] <hikiko> ok tvoss ask first if you want :D
[08:11] <robert_ancell> tvoss, do you know who is maintaining LTT-ng in Ubuntu? If we take a dependency on it I'll do a MIR, but if it's another team I can leave it for them
[08:12] <tvoss> robert_ancell, it should be stephane graber for Ubuntu, the kernel team makes sure that our kernels are enabled
[08:12] <tvoss> robert_ancell, does that help?
[08:12] <robert_ancell> tvoss, thanks, I'll ask him
[08:13] <tvoss> robert_ancell, cool, let me know if I can help
[08:21] <alf__> hikiko: your turn :)
[08:26] <hikiko> alf__, i just merged after a longtime and I wonder what some new things are:
[08:26] <hikiko> eg. the internal native display
[08:26] <hikiko> and the internal client
[08:34] <alf__> hikiko: The internal client is the object in-process "clients" (like e.g. the shell) use to get the EGL handles they need to render
[08:36] <alf__> hikiko: The InternalNativeDisplay, is the implementation of MirMesaEGLNativeDisplay (which is what Mesa expects from us) for the in-process clients
[08:36] <alf__> hikiko: (this is of course only for the GBM case, Android uses other abstractions internally)
[08:37] <alf__> hikiko: (Android uses other abstractions internally = meaning not InternalNativeDisplay)
[08:39] <alf__> hikiko: btw, you don't any of this for render_to_fb to work
[08:53] <hikiko> cool :) so I can leave them for later
[08:54] <hikiko> I just need to understand what's going on :)
[15:04] <kdub> hello all, status, working on swapinterval 0 for android, was unsucessful in getting unity next to run
[15:09] <hikiko> kdub, ping
[15:09] <kdub> hello
[15:09] <hikiko> hello :)
[15:10] <hikiko> kdub, in my sdl branch I get a compile error in a header file: android_input_manager.h:26 because it is included in the src/server/default_server_configuration.cpp
[15:11] <hikiko> should this file be there or I can just delete the include line?
[15:11] <hikiko> I don't do an android build
[15:11] <kdub> hikiko, sure ,but the input stack is called 'android' too, its probably needed somewhere in the code
[15:13] <hikiko> so the input for the pc-build uses the android_input_manager.h?
[15:15] <kdub> yep
[15:17] <hikiko> kdub, we have an important bug in this header file
[15:18] <hikiko> we use the enum Status
[15:18] <hikiko> but
[15:18] <hikiko> Status is defined in the Xlib headers
[15:18] <hikiko> i mean #define
[15:19] <hikiko> in the android build you don't use Xlib
[15:19] <hikiko> so you don't get any error
[15:19] <hikiko> but in the gbm/sdl
[15:19] <hikiko> we have to either remove that header file from the build or use another name for Status
[15:20] <hikiko> can I fill a bug report?
[15:20] <alf__> hikiko: where does Status come from?
[15:20] <hikiko> X11/Xlib.h
[15:20] <alf__> hikiko: no I meant from our side
[15:21] <hikiko> src/server/input/android/android_input_manager.h
[15:21] <alf__> hikiko: found it in 3rd_party/android-input/android/frameworks/base/services/input/InputDispatcher.h
[15:22] <alf__> hikiko: But why do these too conflict? Why do X headers end up in src/server/default_server_configuration.cpp?
[15:23] <hikiko> because sdl includes the X headers
[15:23] <hikiko> and in any case I should include them :)
[15:24] <hikiko> even if I used pure Xlib
[15:25] <alf__> hikiko: right, but why do the headers end up included by src/server/default_server_configuration.cpp ? DefaultServerConfiguration shouldn't know anything about the implementation of Platform, Display etc which includes X/SDL headers
[15:27] <alf__> status: Continuing lttng experiments/integration, cleaning up unused code
[15:27] <hikiko> no idea
[15:29] <alf__> hikiko: well, that's something to look into then :)
[15:29] <hikiko> but I didn't write that file :s I have no idea of its internals why wouldn't we just rename status?
[15:33] <kgunn> hikiko: can you not use namespace here to solve your problem?
[15:33] <hikiko> no kgunn namespaces cannot override the preprocessor definitions
[15:34] <hikiko> the preprocessor substitutions happen before the compiler even sees the file
[15:34] <hikiko> so Status will be an integer
[15:34] <kgunn> hikiko: oh...see that now in scrollback...#define
[15:35] <hikiko> I think that maybe I should fill a bug report and send an email to the mailing list, maybe someone can suggest a solution :)
[15:36] <kgunn> hikiko: not really the way it works
[15:36] <kgunn> hikiko: i think you need to solve the problem & _then_ propose a solution
[15:36] <hikiko> I can solve the problem 2 ways but I don't know what I might break in the android build
[15:36] <kgunn> hikiko: if you end up with requiring a change to the name of something in mir, create a merge proposal & let it get reviewed
[15:37] <hikiko> ah ok :)
[15:37] <kgunn> hikiko: ah...but that's where testing comes in :)
[15:37] <kgunn> hikiko: prove it to yourself
[15:39] <hikiko> should I setup an android environment to test this? I have a nexus galaxy, does mir work there?
[15:43] <alf__> hikiko: yes, although I guess as a first step it would be enough to check that everything builds (which you can do without a phone)
[15:44] <alf__> hikiko: I am still curious how the X11 headers end up in default_server_configuration.cpp . Where are you including SDL, X11 headers in the code?
[15:44] <hikiko> alf__, you mean if that if I choose the android platform in ccmake I can build it in the pc
[15:44] <hikiko> only in sdl/display.cpp, sdl/display.h
[15:45] <kdub> hikiko, you can cross compile from the pc
[15:45] <hikiko> kdub, are there any instructions on how to do it?
[15:45] <alf__> hikiko: for building on Android check http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/building_source_for_android.html
[15:46] <hikiko> ah cool :D
[15:47] <alf__> hikiko: set up the repos/get all the dependencies mentioned there, and at the last step run the ./cross-compile-chroot.sh script
[15:48] <alf__> hikiko: are you including sdl/display.h somewhere?
[15:48] <hikiko> where can I get this script from?
[15:48] <alf__> hikiko: its in the root directory of the tree
[15:49] <alf__> hikiko: (note: check the "cross compile" part of the guide)
[15:49] <greyback> kdub: hey, did you succeed in running qml-phone-shell on the phone yesterday?
[15:50] <hikiko> oh I see alf__ thank you!
[15:50] <kdub> greyback, no, hit a corrupt stack
[15:51] <greyback> kdub: strange, want me to investigate anything?
[15:51] <hikiko> ok, I will try to remove the .h first and if I get a break in android I will rename the enum and propose a merge
[15:51] <kdub> greyback, i still haven't ruled out that I set it up wrong somehow, so probably nothing to investigate yet
[15:52] <greyback> kdub: ok, well ping me if I can help.
[15:52] <kdub> sure, thanks
[16:06] <kgunn> greyback: should we get one of Pat's guys to try your instructions ?
[16:07] <greyback> kgunn: they're very preliminary, things will get a whole lot easier once platform-api stuff settles down. But I have no objection
[16:15] <kgunn> racarr: might join #ubuntu-touch
[16:16] <kgunn> rsalveti is going to give mir/unity8 build a whirl
[16:16] <rsalveti> cool, will give it a try later today (after uds)
[16:29] <alf__> hikiko: my suggestion is to find out if you can avoid the naming clash, by finding out why X11 headers end up in default_server_configuration.cpp (and fixing that)
[16:36] <hikiko> alf__, that's a solution only if we are 100% sure that we don't want to include X11 headers and android headers together
[16:37] <hikiko> the problem is not the default_server_configuration.cpp but
[16:37] <hikiko> that we include that android_something.h
[16:37] <hikiko> if we include it elsewhere at somepoint
[16:37] <hikiko> we ll end up to have the same problem
[16:37] <hikiko> what I think is a better solution
[16:38] <hikiko> is to not include android header files at all in a pc build
[16:38] <hikiko> :s/pc/non-android
[16:41] <greyback> kdub: racarr: We plan to have Mir to run as non-root user, right? Can you quickly say why right now we must run it as root?
[16:42] <kdub> greyback, because sf does it, at least on android :)
[16:42] <kdub> tbh, haven't tried it non-root on android much
[16:43] <greyback> kdub: oh ok then /me gives up :)
[16:44] <greyback> kdub: there's so much about this layer I yet don't understand, so I'm full of questions like these.
[16:44] <alf__> hikiko: but that's the android input stack which now is mir's input stack for all platforms, we can't disable it
[16:44] <alf__> hikiko: for any platform
[16:45] <hikiko> that's why I think that I a rename is the best solution
[16:45] <hikiko> I'll just rename the enum :)
[16:46] <hikiko> and then you can include the file everywhere
[16:48] <alf__> hikiko: that will just hide the underlying problem, i.e., that somehow X11 headers get included where they are not supposed to be included
[16:51] <alf__> hikiko: I would be all for renaming if we actually needed to include both the input and X11 headers, but that doesn't seem to be the case... we get a spurious X11 header inclusion somehow
[16:56] <hikiko> I understand what you mean and it's interesting to find why it happens, my point is that the rename is necessary if we are going to use the android input stack and the X at the same time, we ll end up to have similar conflicts anyway
[17:03] <alf__> hikiko: when/if we get that problem, we can fix it then :)
[17:07] <hikiko> we have it now
[17:30] <racarr> Unlikely but possible cause of shell crash
[17:30] <racarr> perhaps qtubuntu/platform API were built against mesa EGL headers (seems like hybris is built this way in packaging for example)
[17:31] <racarr> o we ran in to the same old eglplatform.h nonsense
[17:31] <racarr> which doesn't matter on 32 bit machines?
[17:31] <racarr> nvm
[17:49] <racarr> ok speculating about this bug is getting me nowhere so im flashing my nexus 4
[17:49] <racarr> google claims it backs up all my app data anyway ;)
[17:49] <kdub> racarr, use clockworkmod backup
[17:50] <racarr> kdub: Even better
[17:51] <racarr> You can multiboot nexus 7 but no one wrote it for nexus 4
[17:53] <racarr> kdub: Oh wait, but this is literally a stock device so I have to oem unlock and clear it to install clockwork right?
[17:53] <racarr> that will be good the second time though
[17:53] <kdub> racarr, right
[17:54] <tvoss> kdub, ping
[17:55] <kdub> hey tvoss
[17:55] <tvoss> kdub, hey, did you have a chance to debug greyback's issue?
[17:56] <kdub> no, working on other performance things though
[17:56] <tvoss> kdub, okay
[17:57] <racarr> tvoss: I am working on it
[17:57] <tvoss> racarr, okay
[17:57] <racarr> but got stuck in a 6 hour diversion of trying to get mir working on nexus 7 again
[17:57] <racarr> but um...
[17:57] <racarr> it didn't work :p
[17:57] <racarr> so now im in the minor diversion of flashing my nexus 4
[17:58] <racarr> the stacktrace is just nonsense so I will need to reproduce it
[17:59] <kgunn> racarr: wow...that frightens me off
[17:59] <kgunn> re: 6 hr diversion of n7
[18:01] <racarr> kgunn: Well tbh I didn't get that deep but it was really time consuming
[18:02] <kgunn> racarr: did you try to use the upstream or kdubs libhybris
[18:02] <racarr> wait I didn't know where kdubs was anymore
[18:02] <racarr> but I tried to use the upstream and tried to backport it myself
[18:03] <racarr> then tried to backport it myself again better
[18:03] <racarr> haha
[18:03] <racarr> same segfault in  um
[18:03] <racarr> pthread_mutex_lock all around
[18:03] <racarr> well thats not true, the first time I tried to backport it, it segfaulted very easly in a corrupt stack
[18:03] <racarr> then the upstream version, and my second backport
[18:04] <racarr> print much more debug info about loading android libraries and finding the tegra 3
[18:04] <racarr> and then segfault in pthread_mutex_lock
[18:04] <tvoss> racarr, that's a known issue with hybris
[18:05] <tvoss> racarr, at least for the nvidia driver, it comes down to the fact that nvidia's driver uses a mutex shared across processes
[18:05] <racarr> tvoss: https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris/pull/49
[18:05] <racarr> this is what we mean by upstream in this conversation
[18:05] <racarr> but it doesn't work
[18:06] <racarr> libhybris trunk is very different looking from what we are using, so I am guessing
[18:06] <racarr> it needs to be backported by something more intelligent than diff and dumbly resolving conflicts
[18:11] <racarr> building clang too
[18:25] <racarr> currently on a phone call from ubuntu, wild
[18:40] <racarr> nexus 4 seem to overheat in calls
[18:40] <racarr> haha
[18:46] <racarr> kdub: Any advice with wireless on nexus 4? It claims to assosciate to my network but no connection (nexus 7 worked with no intervention)
[18:47] <kdub> mine worked fine from the ubuntu wireless interface
[18:47] <kdub> phablet-network-setup might help too
[18:47] <kdub> (just copies your laptop's wireless conf on over to the device)
[18:47] <racarr> annnd it magically fixes it
[18:47] <racarr> self
[18:47] <racarr> :)
[19:32] <racarr> I thought mir was running but really surface flinger was just bugging out :(
[19:34] <racarr> kdub: ...um...have you ever seen
[19:34] <racarr> ...inverted? colors
[19:34] <racarr> I think this is inverted
[19:34] <racarr> its not inverted
[19:34] <racarr> white is white but orange is purplke
[19:34] <racarr> red is blue
[19:34] <racarr> ok
[19:34] <kgunn> usually pink/green
[19:34] <racarr> format mix up
[19:35] <kgunn> is when rgb formats get screwed
[19:35] <racarr> I think
[19:35] <racarr> this is unity in mir
[19:35] <racarr> XD
[19:35] <kgunn> meaning like ubuntu purple/orange ?
[19:36] <racarr> well like
[19:36] <racarr> the youtube icon is blue instead of read
[19:36] <racarr> the background is a deep purple
[19:36] <racarr> the camera icon is perfect almost
[19:36] <racarr> facebook i orange
[19:36] <kgunn> oh cool....
[19:36] <kdub> sounds like an rb flip
[19:36] <kgunn> yep
[19:36] <racarr> mm
[19:36] <kgunn> bgr rgb
[19:36] <racarr> wait so
[19:36] <racarr> why didnt it crash
[19:37] <racarr> I was expecting it to segfault XD
[19:37] <racarr> like greybacks
[19:37] <kgunn> if its 888 then the bit sizes are the same
[19:37] <kgunn> no worries...just interpretted wrong
[19:37] <kgunn> http://graphics.github.io/bltsville/
[19:37] <kgunn> this is really common
[19:38] <kgunn> tried solving with this open project
[19:38] <kgunn> actually this one related to it http://graphics.github.io/ocd/
[19:39] <racarr> kdub: So if there are things on the screen and ps aux | grep surface gives me nothing
[19:39] <kgunn> lots of people get bgr/rgb swapped due to differing spec's/interpretations
[19:39] <racarr> I should be pretty confident it's mir XD? I'm trying to confirm
[19:39] <racarr> the right QML phone shell is running, etc.
[19:39] <kgunn> can you run dumpsys SurfaceFlinger from the android shell
[19:39] <kgunn> that would tell you if surface flinger is rendering
[19:39] <kdub> yeah
[19:39] <racarr> dumpsys command not found?
[19:40] <kgunn> gotta be in the android shell
[19:40] <racarr> as in
[19:40] <kgunn> not an adb command
[19:40] <racarr> adb shell
[19:40] <kgunn> yep
[19:40] <racarr> I don't have it
[19:41] <kgunn> hmmm, weird....i don't either
[19:41] <kgunn> on my ubuntu device
[19:41] <racarr> oh
[19:41] <racarr> I know how to figure out XD
[19:42] <racarr> ill run a mir client :p
[19:42] <racarr> I do have a tmp/mir_socket so seems pretty promising
[19:42] <racarr> also the screen is blue which seems unlikely to be something that surface flinger would do
[19:43] <racarr> oh cool
[19:43] <racarr> it is mir
[19:43] <racarr> ...um
[19:43] <kgunn> so does that mean we've been looking at surfaceflinger this whole time :-/
[19:43] <racarr> ?
[19:43] <racarr> No.
[19:44] <racarr> the ...um is because
[19:44] <racarr> my whole point here was to figure out why the inproces-shell doesn't run inprocess on the nexus 4
[19:44] <racarr> but then it does
[19:44] <kgunn> :D
[19:44] <racarr> so now I have to find out why it crashes for other people XD
[19:44] <kgunn> you cured it!
[19:44] <racarr> and
[19:44] <racarr> figure out how to make
[19:44] <racarr> blue
[19:44] <racarr> orange
[19:44] <racarr> red
[19:44] <racarr> something
[19:45] <racarr> im going to do that first XD
[19:45] <kgunn> wondering if that's the Qtubuntu plugin pixel cfg format
[19:45] <kdub> i'd look there first
[19:45] <racarr> Yeah
[19:45] <racarr> 95% sure that's what it i
[19:46] <kgunn> other could be our setting on the hw for color fmt is wrong :)
[19:46] <racarr> trying to find the debian source for the packages gerry poted on chintrap
[19:46] <racarr> kgunn: No I would be willing to bet somewhere in
[19:46] <racarr> actually somewhere in ubuntu_application_api_mirserver
[19:46] <racarr> there is like
[19:46] <racarr> pixel_format = argb // TODO: ~racarr lol
[19:46] <kgunn> :D
[19:47] <kgunn> doh!
[19:47] <racarr> ah yep there it is
[19:47] <racarr> *grin*
[19:49]  * kgunn kinda disturbed "we" took out dumpsys....awfullly useful
[19:50] <racarr> hmm
[19:50] <racarr> I cant get at the pixel formats from libmirserver easily right now...
[19:50] <racarr> need to pass the buffer allocator through
[19:51] <racarr> computers sure are fun
[19:54] <racarr> why is it magically fixed...ugh
[19:54] <racarr> maybe it really was the eglplatform.h nonsense and I don't understand
[19:54] <racarr> integer promotion rules
[19:58] <kdub> racarr, might be, i don't think i tinkered with that eglplatform.h fiel
[19:58] <racarr> kdub: It's fixed in the PPA now
[19:58] <racarr> my thought is that if the qtubuntu backage was built in pbuilder
[19:58] <racarr> it used the mesa headers
[19:59] <kdub> i don't know that the android build draws from that ppa
[19:59] <kdub> at least the scripts
[19:59] <racarr> mm
[19:59] <racarr> well im ust going to try and fix the colors for now and sync up with greyback tomorrow
[20:08] <racarr> cross your fingers :)
[20:09] <kgunn> toes as well
[20:10] <racarr> hey cool the colors are right
[20:11] <racarr> feels really smooth
[20:11] <racarr> gesture are all easy to use :)
[20:12] <racarr> it's always so anticlimatic
[20:17] <kdub> great :)
[20:17] <kdub> racarr, yeah
[20:19] <tvoss> racarr, which device?
[20:20] <kgunn> racarr: oh don't worry....crazy will arrive
[20:21] <racarr> tvoss: Nexus 4
[20:21] <racarr> with inprocess mir shell :)
[20:25] <tvoss> racarr, epic :) video?
[20:26] <racarr> tvoss: After lunch. It's not much of a video though because it will look just like the out of process stuff except applications wont work :p
[20:26] <kgunn> tvoss: like mirco said...strange milestones....we want nothing to change :)
[20:26] <kgunn> even tho we are changing
[20:27] <racarr> tvoss: A cooler video would have been when r and b were swapped
[20:27] <racarr> "Ubuntu Phone: Midnight-ice theme"
[20:28] <kdub> midnight ice blur
[20:28] <kdub> the next big thing i hear ;-)
[20:28] <kgunn> oh man....i want that.....mightnight ice blur phone!
[20:29] <racarr> maybe ill get a transfer to marketing
[20:29] <tvoss> racarr, ack :)
[20:30] <kgunn> :D
[20:34] <racarr> Ok lunch!
[20:39] <kdub> thats a good idea
[21:50] <kgunn> robert_ancell: aren't you on baby duty?
[21:51] <robert_ancell> kgunn, Not until Tuesday
[21:51] <kgunn> robert_ancell: ok, your mail was just a pre-emptive strike
[21:51] <robert_ancell> kgunn, yep
[21:52] <kgunn> racarr: kdub & greyback makin' all kinds of progress
[21:53] <kgunn> robert_ancell: they have the inprocess shell working on n4
[21:53] <robert_ancell> kgunn, nice
[22:00] <racarr> gosh the mission is charming :)
[22:00] <racarr> Walking around for lunch now includes trees which is a big plus


[05:05] <CIA-39> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1209734 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/ (backend.cpp config.cpp history.cpp package.cpp) LibQApt should use Q_FOREACH explicitly to avoid potential issues with other libraries using the foreach keyword as a macro
[07:16] <cpatrick2008> i was wondering when the kpackagekit bug is going to be fixed i saw that kde fixed the problem in version 0.6.3,2
[07:23] <valorie> systemsettings is still crashing if I test xine or vlc phonon backend
[07:24] <valorie> it wasn't my haunted computer
[07:24] <valorie> doesn't crash with gst
[07:24] <valorie> but since i get no error messages, I don't know where I should report this
[07:25] <valorie> kde bug, or kub. bug?
[07:25] <valorie> systemsettings, or phonon?
[07:52] <yofel> cpatrick2008: not sure when it will be fixed, as we need the new kpk version for that
[07:53] <yofel> and dantti seems to be far away..
[09:27] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://sebner.soup.io/post/96014590/Timelords
[09:28] <valorie> Quintasan: do you build phonon from git?
[09:28] <Quintasan> valorie: in project-neon we do
[09:29] <valorie> so that's what you have for your amarok?
[09:29] <Quintasan> dunno
[09:29] <Quintasan> I don't have it installed yet
[09:29] <valorie> ever since I built phonon from git, I can't play ANYTHING
[09:29] <valorie> from ANYWHERE
[09:30] <valorie> I've been testing -- backends all crash
[09:30] <valorie> as soon as anything hits the playlist, crash
[09:30] <Quintasan> and project-neon-amarok is not ready yet beacuse it waits for project-neon-kdemutlimedia which is waiting for oom bug
[09:31] <valorie> your amarok was still crashing though, correct?
[09:32] <valorie> on startup
[09:32] <valorie> sec
[09:38] <valorie> sorry, when the old dog needs out, gotta take him out or clean up the carpet!
[09:38] <valorie> lol
[09:39] <valorie> I'm wondering if I just apt-get purge phonon and then reinstall from packages
[09:39] <valorie> if I'll have a working amarok again
[09:40] <valorie> on startup is probably a different problem, *unless* you have a playlist in place, and have chosen to have it start playing at startup
[09:40] <valorie> which would trigger the same crash
[09:40] <valorie> do you get a bt?
[09:43] <valorie> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=261356
[09:43] <valorie> for mine
[09:58] <valorie> quintasan, is your backtrace anything like this one? KDE bug 259801?
[09:59] <valorie> if so, we do have something related I think
[09:59] <valorie> anyway, going to bed
[09:59] <valorie> niters all
[10:16] <yofel> Quintasan: multimedia is OOM too?
[10:17] <yofel> Quintasan: wait, you didn't even try multimedia yet
[10:41] <Quintasan> nope
[10:41] <Quintasan> because we cant? :D
[10:41] <Quintasan> we need kdelibs to be built with docbook-xml/xls as runtime dependency
[10:42] <yofel> I uploaded that yesterday
[10:42] <yofel> (pretty late though)
[11:25] <droidslayer> apachelogger: http://kde.in/conf/
[11:50] <apachelogger> droidslayer: cool
[14:27] <afiestas__> Hey, you should backport the patches that can be found between 1.0 and 1.0.1
[14:28] <afiestas__> they add stability into kio_obexftp by fixing a lot of "dead lock" situations and fix the "Empty device name" bug
[15:04] <CIA-39> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1209920 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/ (backend.cpp worker/worker.cpp) Report whether or not an InitError comes from the worker. This way applications can know if they should quit or not.
[15:05] <CIA-39> [muon] jmthomas * 1209922 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (libmuon/MuonMainWindow.cpp muon/MainWindow.cpp) Don't quit if an InitError comes from the worker. If the timing is right a LockError can be reported as an InitError in the worker, and we don't have to quit all of Muon over that
[15:08] <nigelb> yofel: poke
[15:08] <nigelb> yofel: interested in doing a class at user days?
[15:09] <CIA-39> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1209924 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/globals.h Document the new InitError detail
[15:23]  * Riddell uploads koffice to natty and ppa/backports
[15:45] <alleehol> kmail2 beta3 unusable beause it needs akonadi-server 1.4.90 released a week ago.  Can't this be added to the experimental ppa?
[15:59] <yofel> nigelb: what topic? and when exactly is the next one going to be?
[16:00] <nigelb> yofel: pick something you think is beginner-user-friendly
[16:00] <nigelb> date --> Saturday January 29th and
[16:00] <nigelb> Sunday January 30th
[16:34] <afiestas__> Riddell: what is the process to backport a couple of patches form upstream?
[16:34] <afiestas__> or even better update to 1.0.1 if possible
[16:58] <maco> afiestas__: into a stable kubuntu release?
[16:58] <maco> !sru
[16:59] <afiestas__> maco: yes
[17:01] <maco> read the link then
[17:01] <afiestas__> well, I'm not going to read all of that... I'm not a packager and I'm not interested in all that informtion
[17:01] <afiestas__> I'm onlly interested in get bluedevil updated someway since we've improved the stability a lot in some parts of the software
[17:01] <afiestas__> and kubuntu is lacking those patches
[17:09] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[17:10] <_Groo_> anyone with natty could confirm if k3b is broken with kde 4.6?
[17:10] <_Groo_> k3b needs hal to find the devices
[17:10] <_Groo_> since hal was removed from natty, does k3b work?
[17:10] <_Groo_> im compiling latest k3b git to see if they implemented udisks yet
[17:11] <_Groo_> anyone alive? :D
[17:12] <apachelogger> wah?
[17:12] <afiestas> in theory they could use Solid to do not have these problems :/
[17:12] <apachelogger> _Groo_: you could help afiestas get bluetooth improvements into 10.10
[17:12] <afiestas> that would be nice :p
[17:13] <afiestas> btw, I'm trying to upgrade to kde 4.5.4 (which fixes some Composite stuff) but I can't find it in backports
[17:13] <afiestas> do I have to use another repo for that?
[17:13] <apachelogger> me@avatar:~/tmp/k3b-2.0.1$ grep -ri hal  . |grep include
[17:13] <apachelogger> ./libk3bdevice/k3bhalconnection.cpp:#include "k3bhalconnection.h"
[17:13] <apachelogger> ./libk3bdevice/k3bhalconnection.cpp:#include "k3bhalconnection.moc"
[17:13] <apachelogger> ./src/k3bapplication.cpp:#include "k3bhalconnection.h"
[17:13] <apachelogger> the do not use hal
[17:13] <apachelogger> they just have a class named hal
[17:13] <apachelogger> for whatever reason
[17:14] <apachelogger> it uses solid/device though
[17:14] <apachelogger> no hal there
[17:14] <_Groo_> apachelogger: by bluetooth you mean bluedevil? im already using latest git in my machine
[17:14] <apachelogger> well
[17:14] <afiestas> _Groo_: I'd like to add some patches (at least) into the current Kubuntu packages
[17:14] <apachelogger> unless you cloned yourself and are now making up 99% of the worlds populatin that is not going to help anyone but you :P
[17:15] <afiestas> basically the diff between 1.0 and 1.0.1 (iirc 5 commits)
[17:15] <_Groo_> apachelogger: well k3b 2.0.1 is complaining it cant find the devices cause i dont have hal running
[17:15] <apachelogger> well
[17:15] <apachelogger> k3b is utter fun
[17:15] <apachelogger> since they have a class that is named after hal
[17:15] <apachelogger> I would presume that they also have strings that refer to HAL
[17:15] <_Groo_> apachelogger: actually i do a lot of packages for my own use, because a) i dont trust me b) ppl dont truste me
[17:16] <apachelogger> which is of course BS because they use solid and thus anything could be running under the hood
[17:16] <_Groo_> apachelogger: im not arguing, im just asking someone with natty to run k3b and see if iut shows the devices :)
[17:16] <_Groo_> apachelogger: allllllllso new k3b from git asks for qt multimedia.. and i couldnt find any dev packages with it, only mobile ones
[17:17] <apachelogger> ah
[17:17] <apachelogger> right
[17:17] <_Groo_> apachelogger: its an optional build option so its fine for now, but it would be better if qt multimedia mess could be sorted out
[17:17]  * apachelogger meant to go rant about that
[17:17] <apachelogger> _Groo_: yeah
[17:17] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yeah i agree, its a mess right now :P
[17:17] <apachelogger> write a mail
[17:17] <apachelogger> that goes like
[17:17] <_Groo_> apachelogger: some parts that are in mobile, should have been into desktop, and vice versa
[17:17] <apachelogger> "you unicorns, use the stinky phonon not the stinky qtmm"
[17:17] <apachelogger> "kthxbai"
[17:17] <apachelogger> "p.s. shoot"
[17:18] <_Groo_> apachelogger: lol, i know how the debate goes
[17:18] <apachelogger> no
[17:18] <_Groo_> apachelogger: why have one multimedia when you can have 100!
[17:18] <_Groo_> apachelogger: its so much easier for everyone ¬¬
[17:18] <apachelogger> qtmm should not be in Qt
[17:18] <apachelogger> it ws there
[17:18] <apachelogger> and it got moved
[17:18] <apachelogger> because it is utter crap
[17:18] <apachelogger> and only filling one use case, which is lowlevel access to playback stuff
[17:18] <apachelogger> which all and entirely could have been done in phonon
[17:18] <apachelogger> but the qt brisbane dudes being dudes ...
[17:19] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA
[17:19] <afiestas> apachelogger: +1 for a k3b qtmm free
[17:20] <_Groo_> afiestas: just build it without qtmm.. its optional, only used to preview some shit...
[17:20] <afiestas> _Groo_: that's why we should push Phonon there since it is perfect for the job, isn't it apachelogger ?
[17:21] <apachelogger> most definitely
[17:21] <_Groo_> afiestas: by push you mean replace the code with phonon?
[17:21] <afiestas> if k3b people agree, yes
[17:21] <afiestas> or at least add some ifdef magic
[17:21] <_Groo_> afiestas: trueg is aproachable... the other developer i dont know
[17:22] <afiestas> ifdef UNICORNS, then use phonon
[17:22] <afiestas> if not, use whatever you please :p
[17:23] <_Groo_> apachelogger: btw there will be no more monkeys in the neighborhood  for a looong time XD
[17:23] <_Groo_> apachelogger: they all met they maker
[17:23] <_Groo_> their maker
[17:23] <apachelogger> yeah
[17:24] <apachelogger> my sister too if she does not stop singing
[17:24]  * apachelogger starts shouting like a mad man
[17:25]  * _Groo_ knows apachelogger IS a mad man
[17:27] <_Groo_> anyone with natty, pls run k3b and say if the damn thing can find the devices
[17:27] <afiestas> QuickAccess browser should go upstream, i find it extremely useful
[17:28] <_Groo_> afiestas: veromix too! its a ubber sound mixer
[17:28] <apachelogger> afiestas: upstream?
[17:29] <apachelogger> you find it useful?  K3b did not find any optical device in your system. Solution: Make sure HAL daemon is running, it is used by K3b for finding devices.
[17:30] <apachelogger> users have problems finding the silly trashbin
[17:30] <apachelogger> afiestas: that is appit
[17:30] <JontheEchidna> The original author never put QuickAccess upstream because aseigo didn't like it, iirc
[17:30] <apachelogger> or something like that
[17:30] <_Groo_> arrrrghhhhh
[17:30] <apachelogger> got renamed
[17:30] <afiestas> appkit?
[17:30] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[17:30] <JontheEchidna> It got renamed to Apper
[17:30] <apachelogger> projects.kde.org will know
[17:30] <apachelogger> ah
[17:30] <apachelogger> right
[17:30] <JontheEchidna> (KPK did)
[17:30] <apachelogger> apper
[17:30] <afiestas> apachelogger: maybe we have to rename Phonon to "MultimediaKit"  :p
[17:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: for once I am with aseigo :P
[17:31] <afiestas> aah :p
[17:31] <apachelogger> afiestas: we do
[17:31] <apachelogger> well
[17:31] <JontheEchidna> but yeah, I'm not really maintaining QuickAccess anymore
[17:31] <apachelogger> maybe not multimediakit
[17:31] <_Groo_> stupid k3b ¬¬
[17:31] <apachelogger> lennart will come eat us
[17:31] <apachelogger> only he may do kits or give permission to make kits :P
[17:31] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: pitty cause i use it alot, and its one of my favorite plasmoids
[17:31] <apachelogger> afiestas: there is a branding problem with how phonon is perceived as something not-qt
[17:31] <JontheEchidna> well, it still works. and I'll at least try to keep it that way
[17:32] <apachelogger> makign people fall in favor with qtmm
[17:32] <JontheEchidna> but I'm not going to really be doing any further development with the plasmoid
[17:32] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: awww :(
[17:32] <apachelogger> not to mention that a google search on qt multimedia will not yield much phonon
[17:32] <apachelogger> for obvious reasons
[17:32] <apachelogger> let us kill the quickaccess!!!
[17:32] <apachelogger> oh
[17:32] <apachelogger> I need to leave in half an hour for train
[17:32] <apachelogger> let us kill the quickaccess later!!!!
[17:33] <afiestas> xD
[17:33]  * apachelogger throws a flamethrower after phonongst's streamreader
[17:33] <_Groo_> could
[17:33] <_Groo_> someone
[17:33] <_Groo_> confirm
[17:33] <_Groo_> that
[17:33] <_Groo_> K3B
[17:34] <_Groo_> is
[17:34] <_Groo_> broken
[17:34] <_Groo_> in
[17:34] <_Groo_> natty!
[17:34] <_Groo_> or
[17:34] <_Groo_> maverick!
[17:34] <_Groo_> with
[17:34] <_Groo_> kde
[17:34] <_Groo_> 4
[17:34] <_Groo_> .
[17:34] <_Groo_> 6?
[17:34] <_Groo_> pls?
[17:34] <apachelogger> works here
[17:34] <_Groo_> apachelogger: hal is running?
[17:34]  * apachelogger just burned some pr0n
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: we should put synaptics in the seed while we are removing quickaccess from it (bug 669558)
[17:34] <apachelogger> _Groo_: how would I know
[17:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: aye
[17:34] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yyou still burn pr0n???? oO
[17:34] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ps xa|grep hal
[17:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: now I just need to remember that long enough
[17:35] <_Groo_> apachelogger: should give you a lot of little hal spawn services
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I can do it after I'm done with this FTBFS fix for darkroom
[17:35] <_Groo_> apachelogger: if its active
[17:35] <apachelogger> seems there is a hal in my pocket
[17:35] <_Groo_> apachelogger: oh great... ok, now we have a problem :P
[17:35] <apachelogger> do we?
[17:35] <_Groo_> apachelogger: the thing is... hal and ustuff dont go along
[17:35] <apachelogger> so?
[17:35] <_Groo_> apachelogger: check your power manager
[17:36] <_Groo_> apachelogger: are you seeing one batery or two?
[17:36] <apachelogger> one
[17:36] <_Groo_> apachelogger: oO
[17:36] <_Groo_> apachelogger: do you have upower installed?
[17:36] <apachelogger> how would I know
[17:36] <apachelogger> why would I though?
[17:37] <apachelogger> installed it is
[17:37] <_Groo_> apachelogger: kde moved from hal to ustuff.. they are needed for solid now, for power managemnt, the like
[17:37] <apachelogger> odd Ifind that though
[17:37] <apachelogger> _Groo_: now, I would expect that solid hal still works?
[17:37] <_Groo_> apachelogger: at leats till beta2, powerdevil used to show 2 bateries instead of one, cause he was reading from both hal and upower
[17:38] <_Groo_> apachelogger: same strange behaviour for some type of medias
[17:38] <apachelogger> well
[17:38] <apachelogger> now it does not anymore
[17:39] <apachelogger> so probably hald and ushoot are mutually exclusive within solid
[17:39] <apachelogger> which supposedly would make sense
[17:39] <_Groo_> apachelogger: gonna test that now
[17:39] <_Groo_> that would "fix" k3b, im installing hal again
[17:40] <_Groo_> still cant find the stuff, but hal is kinda sutpid, sometimes onlya  reboot makes him see the correct devices
[17:40] <_Groo_> apachelogger: did you update kdenetwork to rc1 yet?
[17:40] <_Groo_> apachelogger: if not i can upload my packages
[17:43] <_Groo_> apachelogger: do a  solid-hardware list and paste it somehwre
[17:43] <_Groo_> apachelogger: i wanna see if solid is show both hal and udisk devices
[17:43] <_Groo_> showing*
[17:47] <_Groo_> apachelogger: hello?
[17:48] <_Groo_> brb
[21:35] <Quintasan> Hmmmmmmmmmmm
[21:35] <Quintasan> It's quite dead in here.
[21:35] <Daskreech> I agree
[22:01] <Riddell> hi afiestas, we need the patches and whatever information is available about the problems they fix to do a stable release update
[22:12] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ajax seems to have died in rekonq using KDE Platform 4.6 :(
[22:28] <afiestas> Riddell: oooks, I will send them to kubuntu-devel
[22:40] <droidslayer>  Any ideas why qt webkit is NOT built with v8 engine support?  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60440899/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.qtwebkit-source_2.1%7Egit20101116-0ubuntu9_BUILDING.txt.gz
[22:40] <droidslayer> There's a option to pass --v8 to the script
[22:41] <droidslayer> Riddell: ^^ incase you have a idea...
[22:42] <droidslayer> I've Gtg and sleep...  its 4am :-P
[22:42] <droidslayer> Cya
[22:43] <Riddell> droidslayer: no paticular reason
[22:43] <Riddell> oh, he left
[23:22]  * Riddell uploads new koffice tar and koffice-l10n


[17:14] <GauravButola> Hello guys
[17:15] <GauravButola> Does someone hold classes here?
[17:17] <pleia2> yes, but there is nothing currently on the schedule
[17:19] <GauravButola> ple
[17:20] <GauravButola> ohhh
[17:46] <jono> hey
[17:47] <jono> Please ask your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[17:47] <jono> and I will paste them in here for pgraner
[17:47] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/04/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[17:47] <jono> Please only ask kernel questions, and I will paste those for pgraner
[17:48] <jono> alrighty folks, ask your kernel questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat!
 QUESTION: what is the impact on performance on the BLK removal ?
[17:48] <jono> pgraner, ^
[17:49] <pgraner> UndiFineD, should be a positive impact, and will make things more maintainable long term
[17:49] <pgraner> UndiFineD, will be more noticeable on multi-core boxes
[17:50] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Does Ubuntu server have certain tweaks applied to its kernel vs desktop
[17:51] <pgraner> kim0, the only real tweaks are a few config settings and the increase on the number of CPUs the kernel supports
[17:52] <pgraner> kim0, and the default IO scheduler is Deadline
[17:52] <pgraner> next
 question: why does the performance of ubuntu (10.10) reduce a fair bit when under heavy hdd load? is there work being done to improve this? (it could just be my hardware of course..)
[17:54] <pgraner> OkDucky, the IO Scheduler for 2.6.38 has been revamped so you should start to see better performance
[17:54] <pgraner> next
 Question : How exactly does the glorified 200 lines kernel patch will benefit in 11.04
[17:56] <jono> pgraner, ^
[17:56] <pgraner> Taek, That is the auto cgroup stuff, isolate session tasks, it helps balance the load and will help increase performance
[17:56] <pgraner> jono, sorry takes a bit to type this
[17:56] <jono> :-)
[17:57] <pgraner> Tach, bottom line is you will see a benefit on heavy IO
[17:57] <pgraner> next
 Question: What about btrfs? When is it going to be in a usable situation fit for default install?
[17:58] <pgraner> m4n1sh, Post 11.04 we are expecting it to shore up to be a default, right now its in the installer but you have to manually select it
[17:58] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION:  What are the main features of the next kernel?
[17:59] <pgraner> jono, look at kernelnewbies.org for the 2.6.38 kernel, way to many to list here
[17:59] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Any improvements with btrfs performance?
[17:59] <pgraner> sebsebseb, also look at the A2 release notes some more info there as well
[18:00] <pgraner> Jay-Cee, file deletion is noticeable, but as with any dev system things are in flux
[18:01] <pgraner> s/noticeable/noticeably faster/
[18:01] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: will there be any fixes with the issues with input of some joysticks being detected as mouse input. An example of such an issue is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/421812
[18:02] <pgraner> Tach, not sure this is an edev issue with X, not kernel per se
[18:02] <pgraner> next
 Question: Lennart posted a 2 line solution for the glorified 200 lines patch for kernel. Was Lennart's solution better than that of kernel?
[18:04] <pgraner> m4n1sh, Lennart's solution had a limited use case and was not general purpose unfortunately
[18:04] <pgraner> next
 Question:  I heard that installing ubuntu using btrfs as FS takes some hours to install. Is it true? Any special reason for this problem (provided it is true)
[18:05] <pgraner> m4n1sh, that used to be the case, more recent versions of the kernel have fixed that specific issue afaik
[18:05] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: How does the server's kernel compare to other enterprise distros' kernels , i.e. does the team regularly sync drivers for Enterprise grade cards (SAS, NICs, LOMs...)
[18:07] <pgraner> kim0, So this is a multipart answer so bear with me while I type it out
[18:07] <pgraner> We have a pkg call LBM that get updates on a few drivers (LBM == Linux Backport Modules)
[18:08] <pgraner> We also have for LTS releases backported kernels that have the latest in upstream hardware enablement
[18:09] <pgraner> the kernels are call LTS Backport Kernels and are basically the latest release kernel running on the last LTS
[18:09] <pgraner> Keep in mind this is NOT A DESKTOP feature
[18:09] <pgraner> it is only supported on the server flavor
[18:09] <pgraner> so yes we have some level between the two to refresh drivers for servers
[18:09] <pgraner> next
 Question: The problems with suspend/resume/hibernate lies in which part of the kernel? Is the situation improving?
[18:11] <pgraner> m4n1sh, the issue isn't really with the kernel, it lies with the system BIOS, most are broken, specifically within the ACPI portion of the BIOS.
[18:11] <pgraner> we have a tool call fwts (in universe) that will test your bios and tell you what is broken
[18:11] <pgraner> run that if you are having issues then attach the out put when you file a bug
[18:12] <pgraner> it will help us determine if its a true kernel issue (rare) or a broken BIOS
[18:12] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: What should you do if a kernel bug makes ubuntu unstable for a target machine? downgrade kernel or downgrade os?
[18:12] <pgraner> doctormo, downgrade the kernel, way easier
[18:13] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Is there plans or even talk about having a system update without having to restart or install third party software such as ksplice.
[18:14] <pgraner> Taek, the kernel will support kplice however we have no plans to do such a thing, there is already a commercial venture
[18:14] <pgraner> that does that
[18:14] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Do you think that Ubuntu Desktop might use Ksplice in the future?
[18:15] <pgraner> sebsebseb, No as stated in the last question
[18:15] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Is there any plan to help move packages from module-assistant to dkms in debian/ubuntu?
[18:16] <pgraner> doctormo, no there are no plans to do so, dkms is our preferred method for out of tree drivers
[18:16] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION : There are wirless modems (wireless broadband data cards) and TV tuner cards, which do not get detected by Ubuntu at all. What can I expect in 11.04 in this respect.
[18:17] <pgraner> GauravButola, depending on the device there are several reasons why it may or may not be supported in Ubuntu
[18:17] <pgraner> the biggest reason is that the firmware is not available or there is not a driver
[18:18] <pgraner> if the firmware is available and we don't have it file a bug and we will see what we can do to get it into the distro
[18:18] <pgraner> as far as what to expect, there is better support based on bugs and user feedback.
[18:18] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Does hard coding usb and pci ids into the kernel driver code make enabeling hardware that would work, but for a new id, more difficult?
[18:20] <pgraner> doctormo, It is harder but its the only way we have right now, device tree should fix this problem in the future but its not ready for prime time on X86
[18:20] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: I don't really know much about USB 3.0, but when is Ubuntu likely to support it?
[18:21] <pgraner> sebsebseb, it entered the kernel in 2.6.35 iirc and has been in ubuntu
[18:22] <pgraner> sebsebseb, older ubuntu kernels will get support as it bubbles into the stable tree from upstream
[18:22] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Are there any automated kernel speed tests happening in order to improve perforance in the kernel?
[18:23] <pgraner> doctormo, not currently, there are plans but that is more of a QA question (hint ask marjo on his turn)
[18:23] <pgraner> however there are other doing it
[18:23] <pgraner> next
 QUESTION: Do you think Ubuntu 11.10 will use BTRFS by default, if so why?
[18:24] <jono> that was the last question - any final questions? ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat !!
[18:24] <pgraner> sebsebseb, at this point we have no idea, that will be determined based on stability at UDS
[18:24] <pgraner> next
[18:24] <jono> ok, we are all out
[18:25] <pgraner> Great thanks everyone!
[18:25] <jono> if there are no more questions in the next minute or so, we will wrap up
[18:25] <pgraner> Hope it was helpful
[18:25] <jono> OK, it's a wrap!
[18:25] <jono> thanks everyone, and thanks pgraner for taking the time today :-)
[18:25] <pgraner> Thanks I'm out!
[18:40] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:41] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.