[01:39] <xubuntu26w> grub problems
[10:03] <jermslp> Where the real ./'ers at
[10:03] <jermslp> Wats the differneces hetween xubuntu n mint
[10:05] <well_laid_lawn> what is it you really are asking there?
[10:06] <well_laid_lawn> the difference between linux distros is packaging and support mostly
[11:06] <xubuntu38w> Hi
[13:18] <GridCube> hi
[15:09] <mauser9069> Hello, all. I am using Xubuntu 18.04LTS and the dialog boxes for updates are way too wide. I have the DPI set to 160 because of my eyesight. Changing the DPI does not correct this bug. It won't allow me to resize them. I posted it this issue here but no luck. https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2431793 Anyone knows a fix for this?
[15:09] <mauser9069> By the way. I am commandline illiterate.
[15:14] <GridCube> mauser9069: you can resize windows by pressing ctrl and the right mouse click and drag to desired size
[15:14] <mauser9069> I tried that and it won't let me resize them.
[15:16] <mauser9069> These are the boxes that won't resize. https://postimg.cc/w7Fk6QvD and https://postimg.cc/n9j7jLkB
[15:17] <GridCube> that doesn't look like xubuntu
[15:18] <GridCube> i mean probably it's a different theme, but looks a lot like lxde
[15:19] <mauser9069> I themed it differently. Even the standard Theme the dialog boxes are still way to wide.
[15:19] <GridCube> i see
[15:19] <mauser9069> It's XFCE theme.
[15:19] <GridCube> mmhm
[15:19] <GridCube> looks like a bug then
[15:20] <mauser9069> Yes, but I tried to report the bug but it won't let me file a bug report.
[15:22] <mauser9069> So far I am living with this bug. I don't see it ever getting fixed if they won't allow me to file a bug report.
[15:22] <GridCube> how did you tried to fill the bug?
[15:22] <brainwash> bug 1737320
[15:23] <GridCube> :D brainwash to the rescue
[15:24] <mauser9069> I tried using Launchpad which I have an account for. There is nowhere to file a bug report, only search for bugs.
[15:24] <brainwash> you should be able to open new reports
[15:24] <mauser9069> Thank you "ubottu".
[15:25] <brainwash> width = dpi / 72 * size * num_em
[15:25] <mauser9069> It won't let m e "brainwashed".
[15:26] <brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+filebug
[15:26] <mauser9069> At 72 DPI I can't see anything.
[15:27] <brainwash> there is a "Report a bug" link in the top right corner
[15:28] <GridCube> mauser9069: the best way to report a bug is opening a terminal and typing ubuntu-bug nameofpackage
[15:28] <brainwash> the window width calculation seems to depend on the set DPI value
[15:28] <mauser9069> I am commandline illiterate.
[15:28] <brainwash> higher DPI -> larger window
[15:29] <GridCube> :) you can always learn
[15:29] <GridCube> as commands go that's an easy one
[15:29] <mauser9069> I have tried to learn since 1982 and it's Gibb erish to me.
[15:30] <GridCube> :P
[15:30] <brainwash> but keep in mind that you should check first if a bug report already exists
[15:31] <brainwash> I linked the existing one for the inability to resize the window (when using Xfce)
[15:31] <brainwash> didn't check if there is one for the width calculation
[15:36] <mauser9069> Thank you for the link to file a bug report "brainwashed"
[15:39] <mauser9069> Thank you all. Bug report filed.
[15:39] <mauser9069> Bye all.
[18:21] <krrysis> how do i change terminal colors?
[18:24] <GridCube> from settings
[18:29] <bynarie> ^^
[21:48] <BuSdRiVer320> Hi. Is there a way how to get the panel profile which is the default one when one installs xubuntu?
[22:02] <gnrp> BuSdRiVer320: When you delete your old configuration of the panel
[22:06] <BuSdRiVer320> gnrp, i chose Xfce 4.14 in the Panel Profiles app
[22:07] <BuSdRiVer320> Now i've chosen Xubuntu 18.04  and it seems that everything is back how it was
[22:07] <BuSdRiVer320> would be helpful to create a label called xubuntu 19.10
[22:08] <brainwash> is 19.10 any different?
[22:10] <BuSdRiVer320> I don't know as 19.10 is the first time i've installed xubuntu
[22:11] <brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-panel-profiles/tree/data/layouts
[22:12] <brainwash> you could open a new report
[22:12] <brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?component=General&product=Xfce4-panel-profiles&resolution=---
[22:13] <BuSdRiVer320> Thanks. Will do.
[22:14] <gnrp> reminds me I have to upgrade one computer to 19.10.
[22:15] <gnrp> no point in waiting five months for 20.04
[22:15] <BuSdRiVer320> I'm testing atm.
[22:15] <BuSdRiVer320> but was impressed with how stable xubunto 19.10 is
[22:16] <gnrp> BuSdRiVer320: What is the recommended way to upgrade xubuntu?
[22:16] <gnrp> well, I guess it is as stable as any ubuntu release?
[22:16] <BuSdRiVer320> yes and no... i've installed ubuntu 19.10 and lubuntu 19.10
[22:16] <BuSdRiVer320> both had issues
[22:17] <gnrp> ah, ok
[22:20] <gnrp> so, let's see. Upgrading from 18.04 to 19.10...
[22:20] <gnrp> maybe then I can get real USB 3...
[22:23] <BuSdRiVer320> good luck
[22:40] <gnrp> lol. The upgrade window now shows me that the package configuration needs some interaction... but I cannot interact
[22:40] <gnrp> i.e., I upgrade the system, then I have to do this configure secure boot stuff, but I cannot enter anything
[22:54] <gnrp> hmmm, nice. Some small troubles, but all in all system works fine now
[22:59] <gnrp> where do I set the system-wide keyboard layout?
[23:03] <brainwash> gnrp: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
[23:05] <gnrp> brainwash: Yep, tried that. I edited in the end /etc/default/keyboard directly because I wouldn't know the keyboard model for my notebook
[23:05] <gnrp> still having some trouble with keyboard layout/internationalization after the upgrade, though :/
[23:05] <gnrp> when I open a vim and insert an umlaut, it always makes the character and then a space


[06:00] <dax> phunyguy: go away, three ops is a crowd
[07:08] <valorie> hmmm, is there some reason that ubuntu is not in #kubuntu ?
[07:08] <dax> did you miss a word there
[07:09] <valorie> ubottu!
[07:09] <valorie> sheesh
[07:09] <valorie> missing a brain, evidently
[07:09] <dax> don't y'all have kubottu or something
[07:09] <dax> or am i misremembering
[07:09] <valorie> we do in #kubuntu-devel, or at least did
[07:09] <valorie> seems kaput
[07:10] <valorie> but we use ubottu all the time
[07:10] <dax> oh, hrm, ubottu is supposed to be in #kubuntu indeed
[07:10] <valorie> yup, always has been
[07:10] <dax> valorie: it's currently in there...
[19:05] <J0hnD03ii> hey
[19:07] <J0hnD03ii> can anyone tell me why ChunkzZ was banned in #ubuntu for saying unity uses too much ram? I am ChunkzZ and I am sorry. I have been using irc for 2 years on and off. still getting my head around it. I didnt mean any disrespect to anyone.
[19:07] <J0hnD03ii> That is the first channel (#ubuntu) that I have been banned from.
[19:08] <J0hnD03ii> I normally just lurk.
[19:08] <J0hnD03ii> can anyone help?
[22:18] <Pici> fyi, I just added xenial to the minimal wiki page
[22:25] <bazhang> thanks
[22:25] <bazhang> did I mention I CALLED YAKKETY YAK
[22:28] <valorie> bazhang gets a gold star!
[22:28] <bazhang> valorie, I can even do Zed
[22:29] <valorie> listening.....
[22:29] <bazhang> well gotta get some caffe first
[22:29] <valorie> lol
[22:29] <valorie> it has to be a zebra
[22:29] <valorie> just has to
[22:29] <valorie> zany zebra is my guess
[22:30] <valorie> or is that too obvious?
[22:30] <valorie> Mark does tend to the obscure.....
[22:30] <bazhang> yak is pretty common
[22:31] <bazhang> I'd say zany zebra is close to spot on
[22:31] <bazhang> I can even imagine the talking points


[00:56] <dabbler> How can I see what repo an installed package was installed from?
[00:58] <ravage> apt policy <packagename>
[00:59] <dabbler> ravage: thanks
[00:59] <dabbler> Why doesn't the rsync in jammy support --crtimes?
[01:12] <ravage> dabbler, it does not exist in the POSIX standard
[01:13] <ravage> some filesystems support and i there is a patch for rsync somewhere. but its just not a thing on linux
[01:13] <ravage> https://www.baeldung.com/linux/get-file-creation-date
[01:13] <sarnold> I thought ext4 had support for it?
[01:14] <sarnold> oh wow zfs xfs btrfs and jfs too? neat
[01:42] <dabbler> ravage: why would rsync need a patch to support it? It's an option built into it, as long as it's compiled with the support
[01:44] <dabbler> Even if an fs didn't support it, wouldn't it just fail at runtime?
[01:45] <dabbler> The POSIX standard is a floor for functionality, not a ceiling
[01:47] <usuario> #linux mint
[01:48] <usuario> #linux-mint
[01:48] <usuario> ops
[01:48] <Eickmeyer> !mint
[02:06] <Square> is there no way of restarting Gnome mid session like in ubuntu 20.04 in 22.04? Alt+F2 -> R
[02:07] <Square> ...or is there some alternative way?
[02:17] <Windy> anyone using LXC on ubuntu 22.04?  i installed it from apt, but can't start a container following the most basic directions.
[02:17] <SleePy> https://gist.github.com/jdarwood007/db04351b387ba3616393078a49de7385  Well that sucks...  Seems in the middle of updating systemd, the system locked up.  Anyone know if this a known issue?  I will have to get a monitor and live USB on it tomorrow to fix it
[02:18] <Windy> lxc-checkconfig looks fine except "Cgroup v1 systemd controller: missing" and "Cgroup v1 freezer controller: missing" but it's supposed to be v2 compatible anyway
[02:18] <sarnold> SleePy: eww
[02:19] <sarnold> SleePy: hmm, that kind of looks like the amd64 version is being replaced by the i386 version???
[02:20] <sarnold> Windy: I saw this bug report recently about lxc https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1990849 .. dunno if it's exactly related or not, but it might look familiar
[02:20] <SleePy> sarnold: That would explain it.. But why...
[02:21] <Windy> sarnold: hmm, doesn't look related,but tahnks.
[02:21] <sarnold> SleePy: I've seen guitar hero 5 or guitar pro 5 or whatever it was installations do *stupid* things like uninstall sudo .. did you perhaps recently add a new ppa or something?
[02:21] <sarnold> Windy: dang :(
[02:21] <SleePy> sarnold: Yup, I see that now in the output.  It was trying to put the i386 in there.
[02:23] <SleePy> I had a few PPAs.. I can't remember.  The server is in my office and I don't feel like putting a monitor on it tonight.  I'm guessing since I lost pings, I need to get a live usb going as well and it won't boot.  Although that helps to see.  Maybe if I can get a live usb, I can chroot and reconfigure systemd with x64 and maybe it will come back..
[02:23] <SleePy> No plex for me tonight..
[02:23] <Windy> i'm trying the very basic commands listed here for LXC: https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/containers-lxc and it doesn't work past 'lxc-create', i can't 'lxc-start'.
[02:24] <sarnold> SleePy: yeah, a live image feels likely to be necessary to me
[02:28] <SleePy> Yea.  I had it do a similar thing when I did a upgrade from 20.04.5? to 22.04.1.  I had chroot fun mostly because after I got the chroot going, it would get a IP but it wouldn't do DNS resolution.  I can't remember what i had to fight to get it to do that.
[02:33] <sarnold> hah, my 18.04 -> 22.04 upgrade went similar
[02:33] <sarnold> it seemed like it was going great right up until the final reboot, when it didn't come back online :(
[02:34] <sarnold> lucky for me it was just in another room rather than in a datacenter somewhere, but still :/
[02:35] <SleePy> Yea. Mines in my office at the other end of the house.  But its late, just my plex box and I can put a monitor on it tomorrow and fix it up.  No need to rush to fix it
[02:36] <SleePy> If it was an important box.  I would get a IPMI interface on it...
[02:41] <sarnold> heh, yeah.. I've got one, I did *something* with it way back when, and now I don't know the username/password for the thing. great planning!
[04:37] <user___> hello all
[04:37] <user___> i just installed ubuntu on a partition alongside an existing kde neon install
[04:37] <user___> but now i can't boot into neon at all
[04:37] <user___> any advice here?
[05:01] <alkisg> user___: what's the output of this command? sudo lsblk --fs | nc termbin.com 9999
[08:09] <dabbler> So what keeps Linux programs from setting the file creation/birth timestamps that the modern Linux filesystems support? Lack of kernel support?
[09:54] <fabtab> Is it possible to install libc6_2.35 on ubuntu 22.04/wsl I have version 2.31
[10:02] <rob0> fabtab: definitely maybe! Why do you think you need that?
[10:03] <fabtab> I was trying iperf3 3.11, It won't let me because it is asking for for version 2.35
[10:04] <fabtab> via dpkg
[10:04] <fabtab> it doesn't matter if it breaks anything it's just wsl and can just re-install in a jiffy!
[10:05] <rob0> what version does "apt install iperf3" get you?
[10:05] <fabtab> 3.9
[10:05] <rob0> btw there is also iperf3 for windows
[10:06] <fabtab> no sorry 3.7.3
[10:06] <fabtab> Yes I have version 3.10.1 for that
[10:07] <fabtab> Get spurious results etc
[10:07] <rob0> what particular feature was added that you need?
[10:07] <fabtab> well windows doesn't show the retr on windows
[10:07] <rob0> You might have to get source code and compile it. I've never tried that on ubuntu/wsl.
[10:08] <fabtab> rob0: none, I was just curious!
[10:08] <rob0> Well, rule of thumb, don't ever try to replace your libc :)
[10:09] <fabtab> lol, I get the picture
[10:09] <fabtab> :)
[10:10] <fabtab> rob0: I'll stick with 3.9 via dpkg and wait then
[10:10] <rob0> It's like what the genie in the Disney movie "Aladdin" (Robin Williams) said about bringing back the dead. "It isn't pretty." :)
[10:11] <lotuspsychje> !backports
[10:16] <fabtab> I'm taking a look
[12:14] <keiserr> hi, if i am extracting a folder from a tar.gz file, and i need to tar.gz the extracted folder, I could do it in 2 steps yes. But I was wonder if this can be made into a one liner. when i am extracting using this  tar -xzvf sample.tar.gz $i, is it possible to instead forward this to stdout and then pipe it to a tar -c and gzip directly?
[12:16] <Habbie> keiserr, look at the -O flag
[12:19] <geirha> it's technically possible, but I don't think the tar command has any options for it
[12:20] <keiserr> thanks Habbie , with the -O i believe i can experiment a bit with that.
[12:20] <Habbie> oh, wait, this is about repacking? then -O won't do the job, at least not easily
[12:20] <Habbie> that you can
[12:50] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:52] <fabtab> So I updated to Ubuntu 22.10 installed iperf3 via dpkg to v3.11 but iperf3 -v shows Version 3,9
[12:53] <ravage> !next | fabtab
[12:54] <fabtab> Ok thanks
[12:55] <thatfatpat> Hey there, I encountered a crash in gnome-shell on Ubuntu 22.04 which I believe was fixed by mutter in 43.rc. However, this bug can directly and realistically result in user data loss, and thus I believe should be considered a high-impact bug. I sent a crash report to Ubuntu but I believe I have more information that could be useful for the
[12:55] <thatfatpat> investigation and shorten the time to resolution. Could someone please point me in the direction of where I should share that information?
[12:55] <Habbie> !info iperf kinetic
[12:56] <ravage> thatfatpat, run "ubuntu-bug gnome-shell"
[12:56] <fabtab> ./join #ubuntu-next
[12:58] <thatfatpat> ravage I did that already, but I would like to add additional information on reproducing the bug and stress why I believe it should be classified as high-impact. Is there a place that's appropriate for such posts?
[12:59] <ravage> thatfatpat, what is your launchpad bug id?
[13:00] <thatfatpat> Would that be the user id from /var/lib/whoopsie/whoopsie-id?
[13:00] <ravage> no
[13:00] <ravage> it is the id you get assiged after the ubuntu-bug process
[13:01] <ravage> submitting a crash report is not reporting a bug to launchpad
[13:01] <thatfatpat> Oh that's helpful :)
[13:01] <thatfatpat> I'll read up on the process for reporting a bug to Launchpad. Thanks!
[13:02] <ravage> the process is "ubuntu-bug gnome-shell"
[14:08] <GSMarquis> Where is the battery scale kept? As if I wanted to rescale what upower is reporting to gnome.
[14:56] <meandrain> hi, what is the difference between `apt search` and `apt-cache search` ?
[14:59] <Reventlov> Hello. At which point ubuntu mounts the casper-rw partition when persistent is present on the kernel CLI ?
[14:59] <Reventlov> Is that done with a systemd service ? (i'd like to execute a few things before it is mounted)
[15:05] <ogra> Reventlov, casper is an initrd script ... so i'd assume it operates from the initrd
[15:08] <Reventlov> ack
[15:15] <rijndael> .
[15:20] <rijndael> @anyone who is directly involved with the ubuntu source code and releases;
[15:21] <rijndael> with a mq-deadline schedule, this renders the nice/ionice tools useless. what is the approach now for handling schedule priorities for processes? such as for throttling IO
[15:21] <rijndael> scheduler*
[15:30] <jhutchins> rijndael: Sounds like you have a question for kernel.org
[15:30] <jhutchins> rijndael: Ubuntu does not write it's own kernel.
[15:31] <rijndael> jhutchins, I will then take my question there, thank you, but doesn't ubuntu choose/compile it's kernel and decide what goes in it?
[15:31] <rijndael> actually. being debian derived, it might not
[15:32] <rijndael> I'll ask in debian as well to be sure
[15:32] <jhutchins> rijndael: You can certainly choose your kernel and configure it to your liking.
[15:32] <jhutchins> rijndael: Be sure to confirm that the behavior you're asking about is the same in Debian.
[15:32] <rijndael> I'm more concerned with what comes/is offered on the website by default.
[15:33] <jhutchins> rijndael: Also compare kernel versions between the two.
[15:33] <rijndael> e.g out of the box..
[16:01] <ogra> rijndael, ubuntu does its own kernels, we do not use debians, the kernel team can be reached in the #ubuntu-kernel channel or throug their mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-team
[17:32] <Apachez> wtf!?  "The following security updates require Ubuntu Pro with 'esm-apps' enabled"
[17:33] <Apachez> https://ubuntu.com/pro     http error 404
[17:33] <Habbie> where did you find that url?
[17:33] <Apachez> when doing apt-get update just now
[17:34] <Habbie> did it print that url?
[17:34] <ogra> Apachez, did you something really bad, like enabling -proposed permanently on your system ?
[17:34] <ogra> (the ubuntu pro stuff is only in -proposed and should definitely not be installed yet)
[17:35] <Apachez> https://pastebin.com/iPaEV44u
[17:35] <Apachez> running it again its gone
[17:36] <Apachez> and it didnt install the packages named in pro
[17:37] <Habbie> i hope the page is "not there yet", and not "was there but is now gone even though many installs might print the message"
[17:37] <Apachez> ogra: been using proposed for some years without any ads in my apt so far
[17:37] <Apachez> deb http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-proposed universe restricted main multiverse
[17:37] <Apachez> Habbie: its a 404
[17:37] <Apachez> 404: Page not found
[17:37] <Apachez> Can’t find page for: pro
[17:37] <ogra> Apachez, well, you should only use proposed if a dev asks you to test a fix .. it is not for permanent use
[17:38] <Apachez> ogra: never seen such recommendation previously
[17:38] <ogra> Apachez, it holds pre-release and beta software ... like the one you are currently playig with
[17:38] <Apachez> so this pro ads will hit everybody now?
[17:38] <ogra> i'm pretty sure the UI option that lest you enable proposed has a proper warning
[17:38] <Apachez> not much into any UI options
[17:39] <ogra> it is a test package that is not released to user
[17:39] <ogra> s
[17:39] <Apachez> its stored in /etc/apt/sources.list
[17:39] <ogra> well, you enabled it somehow
[17:39] <Apachez> even with the proposed line removed I get this:
[17:39] <ogra> ubuntu does nto enable it by default since it is only for temporary debugging use
[17:39] <Apachez> https://pastebin.com/XnBsDAzM
[17:39] <ogra> either way ... that package is not released anywhere yet
[17:40] <Apachez> so even with proposed disabled there are the ads about pro
[17:40] <Apachez> so something else is borked with apt as of now?
[17:40] <ogra> because you installed whatever was in proposed
[17:40] <ogra> with the last update
[17:40] <Apachez> it never installed
[17:40] <ogra> which enabled that message
[17:40] <Habbie> any chance you installed a new apt from proposed, or something like that?
[17:40] <ogra> i think it is ubuntu-advantage-tools or some such
[17:41] <Apachez> not that I know of
[17:41] <Apachez> then its a major flaw that its nagging non ubuntu-disadvantage-tools users
[17:41] <ogra> no
[17:41] <ogra> it is not released
[17:41] <Apachez> none of the python packages listed as pro has been installed
[17:42] <ogra> you pulled it from a test repo
[17:42] <Apachez> so something else is flawed with apt
[17:42] <Apachez> only using production repo
[17:42] <ogra> you have proposed enabled
[17:42] <ogra> that is not a production repo
[17:42] <Apachez> nope
[17:42] <Apachez> its disabled
[17:42] <ogra> explicitly
[17:42] <Apachez> still getting nags about "hey why dont you use ubuntu pro"
[17:42] <ogra> you mean you had it not enabled ?
[17:42] <Apachez> its disabled
[17:43] <ogra> yes, because the change landed on your disk with the last updat you did from proposed
[17:43] <Apachez> running apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade, still nags about ubuntu pro
[17:43] <ogra> *before* you disabled it
[17:43] <ogra> last week, month day ...
[17:43] <ogra> geez
[17:43] <Apachez> so autoclean would remove it?
[17:43] <ogra> no idea
[17:43] <ogra> it is a test package, it had no QA ... no idea how you get rid of it
[17:43] <Apachez> clean, autoclean, update, dist-upgrade - still nags about ubuntu pro
[17:44] <ogra> sure
[17:44] <Apachez> could run some bleechbit to remove any caches
[17:44] <ogra> yu will need to remove/downgrade whatever added it
[17:45] <ogra> you could check all your packages with apt-cache policy to find what comes from poposed ... then downgrade that to the official archive versions
[17:46] <ogra> that wont be trivial though ...
[17:46] <Apachez> wiping /var/cache/apt, clean, autoclean, update, dist-upgrade - still nags about pro
[17:46] <Apachez> so lucky me being an ubuntu user =)
[17:46] <ogra> why would claning a cache change that ?
[17:47] <Apachez> where else does it pick up that "hey, lets nag you about these pro packages" ?
[17:47] <ogra> you will have to explicitly remove or downgrade the updated package that came from the proposed repo
[17:47] <ogra> chanches wont hlp
[17:47] <ogra> or any of the other apt commands
[17:47] <nteodosio> You could inspect /var/log/dpkg.log to see if it was installed
[17:48] <Apachez> apt-cache policy | grep -i propose     zero hits
[17:48] <Apachez> nteodosio: what should I be looking for? any of the pro packages mentioned?
[17:48] <nteodosio> Yes
[17:49] <sarnold> if you've disabled proposed in the apt sources, packages installed via it might not show up in apt policy output
[17:49] <nteodosio> Particularly, you want to look for it in `grep ' install ' /var/log/dpkg.log`
[17:49] <Apachez> searching for python2.7 in the /var/log/dpkg.log brings zero hits, dpkg covers from 1 sept to now
[17:50] <ogra> and you look for python2.7 because ... ?
[17:50] <nteodosio> Why are you looking for python BTW? I may have missed something
[17:50] <Habbie> sarnold, any idea if apt-forktracer would?
[17:51] <Apachez> nteodosio: because of this  https://pastebin.com/iPaEV44u
[17:51] <Habbie> Apachez, those are the updates you say you did -not- install
[17:51] <Habbie> Apachez, the question is what you installed -before- this message appeared at all
[17:51] <Apachez> yes and they DID NOT install
[17:51] <Habbie> we believe that
[17:51] <Apachez> yet apt still nags about some unwanted ads about ubuntu pro
[17:51] <Habbie> and we are suggesting that is because of something you installed -before- this
[17:52] <Apachez> even if I removed the proposed line from /etc/apt/sources.list (well commented it) and cleared the apt-cache out of /var/cache/apt/*
[17:52] <Habbie> yes
[17:52] <Habbie> that does not downgrade or uninstall any package
[17:52] <nteodosio> What does `grep ' install .*pro' /var/log/dpkg.log` tell you?
[17:52] <ogra> agan, that does not change your installed packages
[17:52] <sarnold> Habbie: oh! excellent idea :) I keep hearing good things about apt forktracer :D
[17:53] <Habbie> sarnold, the debian upgrade docs say 'use forktracer and also these two magic dpkg and aptitude commands'
[17:53] <ogra> Apachez, sudo apt install --reinstall ubuntu-advantage-tools=27.10.1~22.04.1
[17:53] <ogra> try that
[17:53] <sarnold> Habbie: ooo I gotta go find those magic commands :)
[17:54] <Apachez> trigproc    libreoffice-script-provider-*    only hits in the dpkg.log regarding "pro"
[17:54] <nteodosio> Ah yes, it's called advantage, I would try `grep ' install .*advantage' /var/log/dpkg.log` instead
[17:54] <Habbie> sarnold, https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#system-status
[17:54] <Habbie> sarnold, ah, the dpkg commands are for other purposes in other sections
[17:55] <Apachez> 2022-09-22 21:14:19 upgrade ubuntu-advantage-desktop-daemon:amd64 1.9~22.04.1 1.9~22.04.2
[17:55] <Apachez> only "advantage" hit
[17:55] <sarnold> Habbie: wow that's magic indeed :)
[17:56] <ogra> Apachez, downgrade that ... the archive has 1.9~22.04.1
[17:56] <sarnold> it might be the shortest aptitude pattern I've seen but it's not 100% clear what it means just from a glance
[17:56] <ogra> 1.9~22.04.2 i most likely from proposed
[17:56] <ogra> *si
[17:56] <ogra> bah
[17:56] <ogra> *is
[17:56] <Habbie> sarnold, :)
[18:00] <Apachez> ogra: not according to policy
[18:00] <Apachez> ii  ubuntu-advantage-tools                      27.11~22.04.1
[18:00] <Apachez> ii  ubuntu-advantage-desktop-daemon             1.9~22.04.2
[18:00] <Apachez> output of   dpkg -l | grep -i advantage
[18:01] <Habbie> !info ubuntu-advantage-tools jammy
[18:01] <ogra> Apachez, right, us the command i gave you abve
[18:01] <Habbie> !info ubuntu-advantage-tools jammy-proposed
[18:01] <Habbie> there you have it
[18:01] <Habbie> you are running the version from -proposed
[18:01] <ogra> right
[18:02] <ogra>  sudo apt install --reinstall ubuntu-advantage-tools=27.10.1~22.04.1
[18:02] <ogra> or rather: sudo apt install --reinstall ubuntu-advantage-tools=27.10.1~22.04.1 ubuntu-advantage-desktop-daemon=1.9~22.04.1
[18:02] <ogra> so you catc both in one command
[18:02] <ogra> *catch
 Apachez, well, you should only use proposed if a dev asks you to test a fix .. it is not for permanent use  <- not true according to the gui
[18:03] <wastrel> "hebbo"   my ubuntu dock is not behaving properly because it doesn't see the apps i have open in other workspaces
[18:03] <Apachez> "Use proposed updates if you're willing to report bugs or any problem that occurs"
[18:03] <Apachez> not a word of "only enable if told to"
[18:03] <ogra> Apachez, so report a bug 🙂
[18:04] <wastrel> in 21.04 when i clicked the dock it showed windows from all workspaces but in 22.04 it only shows the current workspace
[18:04] <Apachez> I started with the chat to see if its a known issue
[18:04] <ogra> (ad ten revert to the archive version)
[18:04] <ogra> Apachez, no, because most people do not enable proposed
[18:05] <Habbie> ok, apt-forktracer works to detect accidental installs from -proposed, once you remove proposed from sources.list
[18:05] <ogra> oh, awesome 🙂
[18:08] <wastrel> gsettings get org.gnome.shell.extensions.dash-to-dock isolate-workspaces  =>  "false"   , and yet workspaces are isolated
[18:09] <nteodosio> about
[18:09] <nteodosio> ^ ignore
[18:12] <ogra> nteodosio, trying hard to ... but it is written there .... and scrolls up with every new line ... AAAAAHHH !!
[18:12] <ogra> 🙂
[18:13] <nteodosio> ogra: lol
[18:13] <nteodosio> ogra: At least today I'm not changing my nick to help with /nick help
[18:13] <ogra> lol
[18:15] <sarnold> lol
[18:34] <Windy> anyone using lxc on ubuntu 22.04?  I installed from apt, but can't start a basic container because of some kind of cgroups error
[18:34] <Windy> https://bpa.st/6MUQ
[18:35] <sarnold> still no luck? :(
[18:35] <Windy> heh nah
[18:35] <ravage> i did not know there is an apt version really
[18:35] <ravage> the snap works great
[18:35] <ravage> (lxd)
[18:36] <sarnold> note lxc != lxd
[18:36] <sarnold> I made that mistake yesterday :)
[18:36] <Windy> i tried witching to cgroups v1 by adding this to my grub config in /etc/default/grub "GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash systemd.unified_cgroup_hierarchy=0"
[18:36] <Windy> " but it didn't seem to do anything
[18:36] <sarnold> (the main interface to lxd being a command named lxc is maximallyconfusing :)
[18:36] <ravage> true. but why would you not use lxd to setup lxc?
[18:36] <Windy> yeah, i had recently read an article on lxc vs lxd.  decided to start with lxc, but plan to experiment with both
[18:37] <sarnold> as I understand it, lxd is image based, lxc is script based. the simplicity of the scripts appeals to a lot of folks
[18:37] <ogra> well, there is no actual lxc package ...
[18:37] <ogra> only a transitional package that installs lxc-utils
[18:38] <ogra> i dont think that gives you a fully fledged setup ... just some client tools
[18:38] <wastrel> ok it's actually   gsettings get org.gnome.shell.app-switcher current-workspace-only
[18:38] <wastrel> gnome added new thing gj every body
[18:38] <wastrel> thanks for the hlp l8rz ☠
[18:38] <Windy> there is a package called 'lxc': https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/containers-lxc these instructions are what i'm working from.
[18:39] <Windy> the 'lxc' apt package should be enough tools to lxc-create an image, and lxc-start it, but lxc-start fails with cgroup errors.  i found at least one reference suggesting these commands work on 20.04, so i think something changed in 22.04 maybe
[18:39] <ogra> wow, okay i satnd corrected ... the -utils are actually able to set up a container then
[18:40] <ogra> (but 10x ore complex than with the lxd snap it seems)
[18:40] <ogra> *stand
[18:41] <ravage> i looked at it to maybe test it but thats really a lot of work compared to lxd :)
[18:41] <ogra> sudo snap install lxd && sudo lxd init --auto && lxc launch ubuntu:22.04 jammy && lc shell jammy
[18:41] <ogra> thats all it needs to run and use a 22.04 container
[18:41] <sarnold> well, it might require logging out and in to join the magic root-equiv group..
[18:41] <ogra> well s/lc/lxc/ in the last command in that line indeed
[18:41] <ogra> oh, right
[18:43] <Windy> i thought there was some difference in how they treat templates vs OCI containers etc.  can't find the original article i read at this point
[18:45] <Windy> hmm, I guess what I read is that LXD can't run OCI based application images, only 'system containers' whereas LXC can
[18:50] <Windy> oh sheesh.  it turns out that the "systemd.unified_cgroup_hierarchy=0" was the issue, i hadn't run 'update-grub'
[18:51] <sarnold> d'oh!
[18:52] <Windy> everything says lxc should work with cgroupsv2, but maybe it needs some specific config
[22:49] <z1haze> hi, I have a brand new installation of ubuntu and im just doing the initial updates and whatnot, but ive gotten into pretty much an infinite loop where i run update, it tells me to upgrade packages, i do, then it tells me they were kept back: https://bpa.st/4XDA I have not installed virtually anything yet so im confused why there issue is occurring
[22:49] <bougyman> z1haze: try apt dist-upgrade
[22:49] <z1haze> same result
[22:50] <sarnold> z1haze: new releases have 'phased updates', where only some machines will install the updates
[22:50] <sarnold> z1haze: this shows which packages are currently being phased, and what percentage they've got https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
[22:50] <Habbie> and phased updates say 'kept back'?
[22:50] <sarnold> yup
[22:50] <bougyman> oh weird.
[22:50] <bougyman> I did not know this.
[22:50] <z1haze> so this is a non-issue for me then?
[22:50] <sarnold> z1haze: yeah
[22:50] <z1haze> sounds good, thanks
[22:50] <sarnold> unfortunately apt's messaging here is pretty poor :(
[22:50] <bougyman> Wonder if the same applies to PopOS? (I know that's not on-topic here, just wondering)
[22:50] <sarnold> hopefully this will improve in time
[22:51] <arraybolt3> z1haze: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1431940/what-are-phased-updates-and-why-does-ubuntu-use-them
[22:51] <arraybolt3> ^ info about what phased updates are and stuff like that
[22:51] <enigma9o7> does popos use ubuntu repositories?
[22:51] <bougyman> Yeah.
[22:51] <enigma9o7> then it probably applies unless they're using old or patched APT
[22:51] <bougyman> It uses ubuntu repositories _and_ pop repositories.
[22:51] <bougyman> and it uses its own apt, that's what I was about to say.
[22:51] <bougyman> has its own do_release_upgrade (pop_upgrade), etc.
[22:51] <arraybolt3> Pop!_OS just recently disabled phased updates (basically making their whole entire userbase Ubuntu's guinea pigs...).
[22:52] <arraybolt3> At least they disabled them in apt, that is.
[22:52] <bougyman> arraybolt3: thanks for the info.
[22:52] <bougyman> I was 99% sure I was gonna convert my daily driver back to ubuntu. now I'm 100% sure.
[22:52] <enigma9o7> Have any phased packages ever been recalled before full distribution?
[22:53] <arraybolt3> enigma9o7: Quite a few, actually.
[22:53] <bougyman> I jsut took the convenience because the only FDE option with the frame.work was Pop.
[22:53] <sarnold> enigma9o7: oh yeah, quite a lot
[22:53] <arraybolt3> bougyman: You can install Ubuntu with FDE on a Framework system, no problem.
[22:53] <bougyman> But I can do FDE with ubuntu on my own. It's worth it, now. I already had too much Pop weirdness.
[22:53] <sarnold> enigma9o7: sometimes it can take months to sort out :( hopefully we'll do a better job of *that*, too, now that apt respects phasing too
[22:53] <bougyman> arraybolt3: ^ yes, I know.
[22:53] <bougyman> arraybolt3: but they did it for me, with Pop.
[22:53] <arraybolt3> You just have to click the "Advanced Options" button at the right point in the installer - it's fully automatic.
[22:53] <bougyman> Plus I wanted to give pop a spin, for real.
[22:53] <arraybolt3> Select "Use LVM and encryption", and kaboom. My system uses it right now.
[22:53] <bougyman> Been using in 3 months now.


[19:41] <MeniShevitz> hi all
[19:41] <MeniShevitz> anybody on a via umpc around?
[19:59] <persia> MeniShevitz: Did you get it working at all, or still looking?
[19:59] <MeniShevitz> i sorta got it working with the wibro drivers, talking about plain ubuntu
[19:59] <MeniShevitz> not mobile :(
[19:59] <MeniShevitz> not savvy enough yet to go mobile :)
[20:00] <persia> MeniShevitz: Well, except for the prebuilt images, it's a bit of a mess :)  Still, the better desktop works on those things, the easier it is to do the same with mobile.
[20:00] <MeniShevitz> lol true
[20:01] <MeniShevitz> to be completely honest i came here hoping to find umpc people
[20:01] <MeniShevitz> as the main ubuntu room i noob flooded
[20:01] <MeniShevitz> not that i'm any better ;)
[20:03] <persia> This channel seems like the right place, but I think there just aren't that many users yet.
[20:03] <MeniShevitz> hmmm... in this case i'll gash about my machine
[20:04] <MeniShevitz> it's the Gigabyte U60 and i wanna marry it :D
[20:06] <MeniShevitz> *gosh
[23:26] <markqvist> Can anyone help me configuring xorg for a 8" external display for ubuntu mobile? It seems that even though i added "Mode "800x640"" To my xorg.conf X still runs in 1024x768 mode...


[01:00] <snap-l>  Hello there
[01:00] <snap-l> Who all is here?
[01:00] <rick_h> party
[01:00] <rick_h> oh right, meeting eh?
[01:00] <snap-l> Yeppers
[01:01] <waldo323> hi
[01:01] <waldo323> good evening
[01:01] <snap-l> Good Evening
[01:02] <snap-l> Anyone else on the line?
[01:04] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/518/detail/
[01:04] <snap-l> Agenda is here
[01:04] <snap-l> Going to wait a few minutes, and then get started
[01:09] <snap-l> OK, let's get started.
[01:10] <snap-l> First up, welcome to the August 2013 meeting for the Ubuntu MI Loco
[01:10] <snap-l> Glad you're all here. ;)
[01:10] <snap-l> First order of business is Ohio Linuxfest
[01:10] <snap-l> Who all is going?
[01:11] <waldo323> part of me will be there in spirit
[01:11] <rick_h> nope
[01:12] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not going to be able to make it either
[01:15] <snap-l> The only person I know who is going is jcastro
[01:15] <snap-l> So perhaps our involvement will be less "official". :)
[01:15] <snap-l> Anywho, it's on the radar and coming up in case someone can help out with things
[01:16] <snap-l> but from the sound of it it's not going to be well attended by us.
[01:16] <snap-l> Ah well
[01:17] <snap-l> If someone wants to do something and organize it, there's still some time to get something together
[01:17] <snap-l> so don't let that disuade you. :)
[01:17] <rick_h> hah
[01:17] <snap-l> Anywho, moving on
[01:17] <snap-l> Unfortunately it turns out just about everything overlaps this year
[01:18] <snap-l> and much as maker Faire and PyOhio overlapped, so too does Ohio Linuxfest and Ubuntu Global Jam S-Cycle
[01:18] <snap-l> I'm thinking because it overlaps OLF, we should do something online again
[01:18] <snap-l> Ie: Participate when you can over the weekend
[01:19] <snap-l> That way folks who go to OLF can still participate
[01:19] <snap-l> and those who are busy with other things that weekend can also participate during the weekend.
[01:19] <waldo323> what are the suggested ways to participate?
[01:19] <snap-l> Glad you asked. :)
[01:20] <snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[01:21] <waldo323> helpful you are
[01:21] <snap-l> Mostly triage / fix bugs, Testing, Docuumentation, Translations, packaging, and Being Friendly.
[01:21] <snap-l> Oh, wait, I mean improving Ubuntu Friendly
[01:21] <snap-l> which is different than being normally friendly. :)
[01:22] <snap-l> https://friendly.ubuntu.com/
[01:22] <snap-l> I think it's determining what laptops and hardware are more friendly to Ubuntu than others
[01:23] <waldo323> aah i was hoping that going around holding doors for people and giving them an ubuntu disc would work for that
[01:24] <snap-l> That's under the Ubuntu Chivalry project
[01:24] <waldo323> sign me up and send me discs :)
[01:24] <snap-l> unfortunately it was replaced after the Ubuntu Middle Ages
[01:24] <waldo323> or usb sticks
[01:25] <snap-l> The Ubuntu Renaissance saw to that.
[01:25] <waldo323> aww
[01:25] <snap-l> Now we just paint Circles of Friends on sistine chapels. :)
[01:26] <snap-l> Anywho, Global Jam, September. We'll have one more meeting to plan and such, but the gist is we'll meet online during the weekend
[01:26] <snap-l> Any questions? Concerns? Alternate plans?
[01:32] <waldo323> not at this time, at least not for the bug jam
[01:33] <snap-l> OK, last but not least: Ubuntu Release Party
[01:33] <snap-l> This should be celebrating the release of 13.10
[01:33] <snap-l> woo woo
[01:33] <snap-l> which I'm sure you've all been following closely.
[01:34] <brousch> hah
[01:37] <snap-l> Anywho, think about what you'd like to see at the release party
[01:38] <snap-l> because frankly I'd like to see someone else plan it if possible. :)
[01:40] <snap-l> But hey, there's another month or so to plan that
[01:40] <snap-l> so just keep that in my backs of your minds.
[01:40] <snap-l> Anything else on the release party?
[01:41] <waldo323> should it be the weekend after, day of, weekend before, or should that be left up to who ever plans it?
[01:42] <waldo323> i think washtinaw user group meets that night
[01:43] <waldo323> *Washtenaw
[01:44] <snap-l> If someone wants to run with the ball I'm happy to let them run
[01:45] <snap-l> As long as the answer to "who is planning the release party" is "not me", I'm quite content.
[01:46] <waldo323> how planned does it need to be?
[01:48] <snap-l> Not particularly. Just find a spot for people to hang out in a place that is flexible for around 20 folks
[01:48] <snap-l> I was surprised at how many folks we had for the one we had at the brewery
[01:48] <snap-l> I think they were surprised as well
[01:53] <waldo323> my initial thoughts are RO Brewery or Black Lotus Brewery but i'll have to see about my availability before I step up
[01:53] <snap-l> That would be awesome. :)
[01:54] <waldo323> is there a way to have a poll on our loco site?
[01:54] <waldo323> or somewhere else so we can get an idea what date would be best for those who would attend?
[01:54] <snap-l> I don't think so, but Google Docs has a poll
[01:59] <snap-l> Anywho, I think that wraps this meeting
[01:59] <snap-l> Thank you everyone for coming. :)
[02:05] <waldo323> thank you for hosting
[03:19] <jrwren> meeting scheduled during trueblood airings will not be attended :p
[03:59] <Blazeix> i bet they'd reschedule if you raised it with HBO
[12:25] <snap-l> jrwren: That's what laptops are for. :)
[12:25] <snap-l> Show can't be all that interesting
[12:30] <snap-l> Also, Good morning
[12:30] <rick_h> morn
[12:32] <rick_h> snap-l: 12.04? or 13.04?
[12:32] <snap-l> 12.04
[12:33] <snap-l> I have no interest in trying anything later at the moment
[12:39] <snap-l> I think there must be some people on vacation because the network is amazingly fast at work.
[13:37] <brousch1> Mailpile looks interesting http://www.mailpile.is/
[13:37] <brousch1> I have wondered for a couple of years why there's no good Python webmail client
[13:40] <jrwren> can anyone link me to some "internal juju" docs. Some thing which describes what juju is actually doing when I juju init and juju deploy. e.g. juju init creates machine zero. why? for what is it used. How is the charm deployed? push? userdata? userdata to do pull? when is charm install run?
[13:43] <rick_h> jrwren: hmm, I'm not sure what docs go into that at that level. I can give you some answers but some I don't know
[13:44] <rick_h> jrwren: the docs are being updated and in looking at them it's not at that level from what I can see.
[13:44] <rick_h> http://blog.labix.org/2013/06/25/the-heart-of-juju is interesting, but again, not 'behind the scenes' as much
[13:45] <brousch1> Read the code!
[13:57] <jrwren> thanks rick_h
[13:57] <jrwren> good point brousch1
[14:02] <rick_h> jrwren: so node 0 is to run the juju api server which stores all the metadata and actually pushes deploys and such
[14:03] <rick_h> jrwren: there's a mongodb server with an api service running. juju talks to it and commands go from there to things on the inside of the environment
[14:06] <brousch1> I can see why people like their IDEs on windows. It's frickin annoying to use anything less
[14:07] <snap-l> Yeah, you don't realize how spoiled you are under Linux / UNIX
[14:07] <snap-l> It's like expecting all water to taste like it has iron in it
[14:08] <rick_h> meh, right tool for the job. If it sucks as doing the job change the tool
[14:08] <snap-l> rather, Windows folks are used to everything tasing like it has iron in it
[14:08] <rick_h> not spoiled, just choosing good tools
[14:08] <rick_h> don't try to tow a camper with a Mini
[14:08] <snap-l> rick_h: Yes, but if you're only used to minis you will never think to tow a camper
[14:09] <brousch1> You just tow very small campers
[14:10]  * rick_h is making campgruond reservations so in the camper mindset
[14:10] <snap-l> along the tiny british coastline
[14:11] <rick_h> and <3 google maps for checking out campground spots via sat. to help pick good spots :)
[14:13] <rick_h> this is awesome https://twitter.com/Earth_Pics/status/364354667829927936/photo/1
[14:19] <snap-l> Yeah, I would love to know
[14:27] <brousch1> The tip of the foolishness I need to deal with on Windows https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/WinBootstrapPyEnv
[14:37] <jrwren> rick_h: when you got 29mph were you pulling that camper?
[14:38] <rick_h> jrwren: huh?
[14:38] <snap-l> 29mpg
[14:38] <rick_h> jrwren: ah no. empty
[14:38] <rick_h> jrwren: with the camper was 15mpg
[14:39] <jrwren> lol, mph. wow, I need more coffee for sure.
[14:39] <snap-l> brousch1: Any particular reason you're installing distribute separately?
[14:39] <rick_h> snap-l: pip requires distribute if you want to use it for packages in there.
[14:39] <rick_h> snap-l: so you have to install it along for the ride before pip comes in so pip can work right
[14:40] <snap-l> Isn't it part of setuptools .8?
[14:40] <rick_h> I know they're merged, but guessing it's not the version he's using?
[14:40] <jrwren> i don't see the big deal. I do almost that identical boostrap process on linux rather often. I don't use ubuntu everywehre :)
[14:40] <snap-l> kk
[14:40] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, when I did python3 setup I had to do those steps manually
[14:41] <brousch1> I haven't moved to the new setuptools yet
[14:41] <snap-l> brousch1: Ah, no worries then
[14:41] <snap-l> newer versions of distribute will install setuptools anyway (.7 and onward)
[14:41] <brousch1> So maybe I get it for free from the distribute bootstrap
[14:42] <snap-l> likely. I pinned ours to 0.6.49 (the last stand-alone distribute) for a project.
[14:43] <rick_h> if anyone has some spare time looking for some brave bookie testers. I've got a serious branch that actually uses celery now and is sweet. Auto loads content of pages on import, auto starts imports on submit, etc.
[14:43] <rick_h> add a new bookmark via bookmarklet or manual and the page content is almost there before you can get back to hit the eyeball icon to look at it :)
[14:43] <snap-l> I'm only looking for casual, non-commital, and light-hearted bookie branches. ;)
[14:43] <rick_h> boooo, commitment issues
[14:44] <brousch1> I have 0.6.49
[14:44] <snap-l> Yeah, so you're using the stand-alone distribute
[14:45] <brousch1> I should look into the new one. No point in going old right now
[15:23] <rick_h> a little brousch1 <3 at the end http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/aug/5/young-coders-pyohio/
[15:58] <rick_h> :( https://twitter.com/gregferrell/status/364409864321110016
[16:02] <snap-l> Nice.
[17:08] <brousch1> rick_h: Woohoo on the kivy!
[17:18] <jrwren> interesting: http://www.stylight.com/Numbers/pipes-and-filters-architectures-with-python-generators/  from a couple weeks ago pycoder weekly mail
[17:22] <jrwren> i've never seen reduce used that way
[17:22] <jrwren> in any language, or if I have, i've forgotten.
[17:39] <greg-g> random thought: since the email spec says + addressing is acceptable (you know<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is delivered to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>shouldn't websites not allow multiple accounts that are just + addresses of the same root?
[17:39]  * greg-g overhears people in coffee shop testing their webapp with test accounts that are u+alice@, u+bob@, etc
[17:39] <snap-l> Not all services handle it that way
[17:39] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, if anyone bothered to check
[17:40]  * rick_h does a `bookie user list G +`
[17:40] <snap-l> I think it's a convention, but you could theoretically have different accounts referenced by the +
[17:40] <greg-g> snap-l: well, there supposed to
[17:40]  * greg-g checks spec
[17:41] <snap-l> But yeah, email is fun that way
[17:41] <rick_h> greg-g: email = email.replace(/\+[^@]/, '')
[17:41] <snap-l> rick_h: Don't you DARE do that. :)
[17:42] <rick_h> :)
[17:42] <greg-g> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5233
[17:43] <greg-g> maybe a better one: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3598
[17:43] <snap-l> Implementations SHOULD
[17:43] <snap-l>    allow the separator character to be configurable so that they may be
[17:43] <snap-l>    used with a variety of mail systems.
[17:44] <rick_h> yea, a lot of web apps don't allow a + in the email
[17:44] <rick_h> drives gmail users bonkers
[17:44] <snap-l> I remember getting yelled at by SF users for that.
[17:44] <rick_h> I've got 4 of them in bmark.us.
[17:44] <jrwren> http://adambard.com/blog/Reducers-explained-through-Python/  cool
[17:44] <snap-l> Well, not yelled ay per se... more "comic book guy"ed
[17:45] <greg-g> hah
[17:45] <jrwren> SHOULD v MUST
[17:45] <rick_h> ah specs, where no one wants to be locked down to anything
[17:46] <snap-l> And then we get yelled at for being pedantic. :)
[17:46] <snap-l> or not being pedantic enough
[17:57] <jrwren> did you know dovecot has a lucene plugin base on CLucene which indexes all mailboxes ?
[17:58] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, but then you're doing searches against the back end
[17:58] <jrwren> which might be good
[17:58] <jrwren> i run dovecot on my laptop
[17:59] <rick_h> I'm pretty happy with notmuch (xapaian and packaged) locally
[17:59] <rick_h> jrwren: ah, I run dovecot on my server, but nothing locally
[18:00] <greg-g> notmuch is good enough for me, but I know people are swearing by dovecot locally (instead of offlineimap)
[18:00]  * rick_h didn't realize dovecot would be able to be a 'sync' layer to replace offileimap
[18:01] <greg-g> yep
[18:01] <jrwren> i just found it easier to setup.
[18:01] <jrwren> and it works great.
[18:01] <jrwren> I don't know if it syncs or not.
[18:02] <jrwren> i just fetchmail from an unstable Exchange server.
[18:02] <jrwren> so my stability improvement is HUGE
[18:02] <rick_h> well call me curious I guess if it can replace offlineimap. offlineimap hangs on my server once in a while and I've got to kill it
[18:20] <snap-l> Yeah, I use fetchmail and dovecot with a local maildir
[18:42] <brousch1> OK, now my install script is much less embarrassing. Added support to automatically download and install Python, PyWin32, and the environment. Also Python3.3 https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/WinBootstrapPyEnv
[20:28] <brousch1> Do you think that python on windows bootstrap is appropriate for pypi?
[20:31] <snap-l> Not sure, but wouldn't hurt to try
[20:39] <rick_h> meh, there's a ton of sample packages from books up there
[20:39] <rick_h> brousch1: if you want to pip install it then put it up there I say
[20:40] <brousch1> It doesn't make sense as a pip install. It installs pip!
[20:41] <rick_h> hah!
[20:41] <rick_h> then no, I'd not put it up there
[20:41] <rick_h> I'd put it on github
[20:41] <rick_h> git clone helper && helper.run
[20:48] <snap-l> Jesus, you'd think the Washington Post was the center of the universe on Twitter.
[20:49] <rick_h> yea, kind of a big deal though. one of the big papers in the country.
[20:49] <rick_h> though /me only has 2 references to it
[20:49] <snap-l> Wonder if the folks from Geeknet will stick around there
[20:50] <snap-l> I follow Jeff Jarvis
[20:50] <brousch1> Having git installed on Windows does not seem like a good assumption, so my instructions have you download the project as a zip, unzip it, then run the appropriate .bat
[20:50] <snap-l> and several other folks that feel this is a big deal.
[20:50] <rick_h> snap-l: heh, well there's your first mistake :P
[20:50] <snap-l> If you're a developer in 2013 and don't have git installed... well, I can't help you.
[20:51] <brousch1> Come on now. It's useful for n00bs
[20:51] <rick_h> develeper != noob
[20:51] <rick_h> at least shouldn't :/
[20:52] <snap-l> Cue the "disruption" articles
[20:52] <rick_h> ugh
[21:15] <rick_h> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:6543/ cool, running on rackspace server for free :)
[21:16] <rick_h> time to make it go boom!
[21:17] <rick_h> heh, and broken things
[22:40] <greg-g> ok, who uses gnome shell here? and have you noticed the "you can't expand a column in nautilus bigger than the current window can take, ie: you can't expand the filename col very far until it stops, because the right most column has hit the edge of the window" bug?
[22:41] <greg-g> I bet its a feature, but dammit
[22:47] <snap-l> Just attached a HDMI cable to the monitor.
[22:47] <snap-l> And figured out how to arrange things so it's at full resolution
[22:47] <snap-l> Hurray for pointless but satisfying upgrades. :)
[22:58] <snap-l> JoDee is pissed.
[22:59] <snap-l> She ordered something from JoAnn Fabrics that arrived in Madison Heights on Saturday
[22:59] <snap-l> They handed it off to the post office today
[22:59] <snap-l> she hasn't seen it yet
[22:59] <snap-l> Meanwhile I had a package that was supposed to arrive on Tuesday show up today.
[22:59] <snap-l> (from Amazon)
[23:00] <snap-l> Needless to say she'll be much more reluctant to buy anything from JoAnns online


[03:59] <Shadow__X> !search
[03:59] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about search
[03:59] <Shadow__X> !help
[03:59] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[04:03] <Shadow__X> its almost like there is a web page
[04:03] <Shadow__X> http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-2200
[17:04] <lisandro1> hola
[18:11] <rwlove> hello
[18:44] <LordDragon> hey all. it seems my installation is completely hosed. when i try and run the frontend, i get a white screen for like 5 mins and then it just crashes. so i want to reinstall, but somehow backup all the network and tuner settings so i can import to the fresh install. is that possible?
[19:22] <LordDragon> hmm been googling. cant find anything useful about being stuck on white screen for mythtv frontend
[19:25] <Shadow__X> LordDragon: there is a script called something like mythbackup or mythdb backup that lets you backup the config from the database
[19:26] <Shadow__X> also, have you made sure the drivers for your gpu are installed?
[19:26] <Shadow__X> have you enabled the updates repo
[19:26] <Shadow__X> have you reset the frontend to default and reconfigure what it uses for viewing (gpu offloading,etc)
[19:27] <LordDragon> no i havent. is there a command to reset to defaults?
[19:30] <LordDragon> ok i reset it
[19:31] <LordDragon> its loaded. gotta go through the config now
[19:38] <LordDragon> working perfectly now
[19:38] <LordDragon> thank you SO much Shadow__X :)
[19:39] <Shadow__X> nice glad it works
[19:39] <Shadow__X> so what was the problem?
[19:39] <Shadow__X> ah, it was probably using some display option that didn't work
[19:41] <LordDragon> yeah i just reset it
[19:41] <LordDragon> so who knows
[19:42] <LordDragon> one annoying thing though is when scrolling through the program guide, its very laggy. ill scroll down a once and it will just freeze for 3 or 4 seconds before scrolling
[19:42] <LordDragon> what could that be?
[19:44] <Shadow__X> do you have your gpu drivers installed?
[19:45] <Shadow__X> watch cpu load when scrolling to see if there are load spies
[19:46] <LordDragon> it must be using the video drivers cuz its set to OpenGL output and working perfectly fine other than that
[19:47] <LordDragon> hmm how do you do direct channel entry into the guide? when i type a number it changes the date of the guide instead of letting me punch in a channel
[19:51] <Shadow__X> its an option somehwere, i don't remembner where though
[19:51] <Shadow__X> and which gpu do you have?
[19:51] <LordDragon> hmm
[19:51] <Shadow__X> just because opengl is working doesn't mean you are using the right driver
[19:52] <LordDragon> NVIDIA GeForce 9400M
[19:54] <Shadow__X> which os
[19:54] <Shadow__X> ubuntu?
[19:54] <Shadow__X> go into additional drivers, it will tell you if you are using the nvidia driver
[20:03] <LordDragon> yep
[20:03] <LordDragon> it says 1 in use
[20:03] <LordDragon> and it shows my nvidia
[20:03] <LordDragon> also the video is stuttering.. hmm
[20:03] <LordDragon> i think i fixed this before somehow but dont remember how
[20:04] <Shadow__X> i don't remember how you fixed it either!
[20:06] <LordDragon> lol
[20:08] <LordDragon> trying "opengl slim"
[20:09] <Shadow__X> if you have a 9400 you should use the nvidia gpu offloading
[20:09] <Shadow__X> forgot the name
[20:10] <Shadow__X> vdpau
[20:11] <LordDragon> oh yeah?
[20:11] <Shadow__X> yeah, vdpau uses the gpu to play the video
[20:11] <Shadow__X> gpu offloading
[20:11] <Shadow__X> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU
[20:11] <LordDragon> would you recommend high normal or slim?
[20:11] <LordDragon> for 9400m
[20:12] <Shadow__X> i think they go over the idfferent ones on the page but without researching probably slim
[20:22] <LordDragon> still getting occasional stutter but not neraly as bad
[20:23] <Shadow__X> using vdpau
[20:25] <LordDragon> yes
[20:25] <Shadow__X> hmm
[20:25] <Shadow__X> what does top say
[20:27] <LordDragon> max about 15% cpu
[20:27] <LordDragon> even when it stutters
[20:29] <Shadow__X> thats odd, does it do that on all the different options
[20:29] <Shadow__X> ?
[20:32] <LordDragon> it was worse on opengl high
[20:32] <LordDragon> but yes
[20:35] <LordDragon> backend stuff works perfect. i can watch tv from my computer using kodi with no problem
[20:35] <LordDragon> but the frontend stutters
[20:35] <LordDragon> both video and audio
[20:35] <LordDragon> they are very quick
[20:36] <LordDragon> like hiccups
[20:38] <LordDragon> it feels like a problem with priority
[20:38] <Shadow__X> never had that problem, not sure
[20:38] <Shadow__X> which driver is it using from additional driver
[20:38] <LordDragon> priorietary
[20:42] <Shadow__X> is it a laptop?
[20:43] <LordDragon> 2009 Mac Mini
[20:43] <LordDragon> 2.0ghz Core 2 Duo
[20:43] <Shadow__X> wired or wireless
[20:43] <LordDragon> wired
[20:44] <Shadow__X> backend wired too?
[20:44] <LordDragon> yep. backend and frontend are both on it
[20:44] <Shadow__X> so it plays fine, stutters than plays fine again?
[20:45] <LordDragon> yes
[20:45] <Shadow__X> and the other decoding options on the frontend do the same?
[20:46] <Shadow__X> did you enable auto updates repo?
[20:46] <LordDragon> other decoding options? you mean opengl etc ?
[20:47] <LordDragon> hmm it hasnt skipped in awhile after i enabled "extra audio buffering"
[20:49] <Shadow__X> maybe thats it then?
[20:50] <LordDragon> might be
[20:50] <LordDragon> :)
[20:50] <Shadow__X> might want to jot that down
[20:51] <LordDragon> oops. it skipped
[20:51] <LordDragon> at least its not very often
[20:51] <Shadow__X> could you add more of a buffer?
[20:51] <LordDragon> not sure how
[20:51] <Shadow__X> is your backend slammed or something?
[20:52] <LordDragon> shouldnt be. its not using alot of cpu
[20:52] <LordDragon> and no other device is using it
[20:53] <Shadow__X> is it skipping or hitting source errors?
[20:53] <Shadow__X> if you can watch the same channel on your other frontend and compare
[20:53] <LordDragon> yeah. i watched using my PC and kodi. the backend is solid
[20:54] <LordDragon> so its not the source
[20:54] <Shadow__X> not talking about using kodi though
[20:54] <Shadow__X> using mythfrontend
[20:54] <Shadow__X> keep the comparison as close to apples vs apples as possible
[21:02] <LordDragon> so install mythfrontend on a nother computer?
[21:02] <LordDragon> maybe i could try and play a recording back
[21:02] <LordDragon> and see if it stutters
[21:05] <Shadow__X> try a recording
[21:05] <Shadow__X> i thought you had mythfrontend on the backend
[21:06] <LordDragon> i do
[21:08] <LordDragon> i only have one install of mythtv
[21:08] <LordDragon> its on the mac mini
[21:08] <LordDragon> both the backend and frontend
[21:09] <LordDragon> on my main rig (this one) i use kodi and the mythtv addon
[21:09] <LordDragon> so i can access the backend on the mac mini
[21:09] <LordDragon> and that works flawlessly
[21:09] <LordDragon> in any case im taking a break
[21:09] <LordDragon> lol
[21:09] <LordDragon> its mostly working
[21:10] <LordDragon> it seems like some quirky driver thing
[21:10] <LordDragon> either with the audio or gpu
[21:10] <LordDragon> where it just glitches
[21:13] <LordDragon> hmm theres a video playback test in the setup wizard
[21:13] <LordDragon> maybe i should try that in a bit
[21:13] <LordDragon> it could be a buffering thing too
[21:14] <LordDragon> it might be underrunning the buffer
[21:14] <LordDragon> because u can puase and stuff, im guessing its playing out of some sort of buffer, and not direct from the tuner
[21:15] <Shadow__X> thats odd, i didn't realize the mac mini was be/fe
[21:15] <Shadow__X> i never had those problems
[21:15] <Shadow__X> i had problems with things taking a little to play because it was over wireless but not that
[21:28] <LordDragon> hmm
[21:28] <LordDragon> yeah. its odd
[21:28] <LordDragon> ive really been thinking about getting a NUC
[21:28] <Shadow__X> are you using a flash drive for storage? :D
[21:28] <LordDragon> and using that instead
[21:28] <LordDragon> haha
[21:28] <LordDragon> :P
[21:28] <LordDragon> built in 320gb hdd
[21:29] <Shadow__X> the nucs are ok (and the varients) if you don't care about a lot of storage
[21:29] <LordDragon> Shadow__X: well they have 1tb 2.5 drives
[21:29] <LordDragon> thats plenty for me
[21:29] <Shadow__X> ah ok
[21:29] <LordDragon> they are pricey though
[21:29] <Shadow__X> i think somewhere around 2-4tb for main recordings and then more than that for longer term stuff is where i am
[21:30] <LordDragon> like 350 bucks for just the system
[21:30] <Shadow__X> around $65 for 1tb 2.5
[21:30] <LordDragon> yeah so over 400
[21:30] <Shadow__X> do you need something nuc sized?
[21:30] <LordDragon> just for tv
[21:30] <Shadow__X> you could look into building something yourself
[21:30] <LordDragon> i dont think i could build a rig for less than 400 though
[21:31] <Shadow__X> do you pay for cable tv?
[21:31] <LordDragon> yes
[21:31] <Shadow__X> :D i am sure thats over 400 a year just for tv
[21:31] <Shadow__X> also, you can build a rig for under 400
[21:31] <LordDragon> :P
[21:31] <Shadow__X> it won't be highend sure, but you could do it
[21:31] <LordDragon> as long as it can fit on a shelf
[21:32] <LordDragon> i dont need like NUC small
[21:32] <LordDragon> but not tower rig either
[21:32] <Shadow__X> pcpartpicker?
[21:32] <LordDragon> hmm
[21:32] <LordDragon> thats a neat site
[21:32] <Shadow__X> yup
[21:33] <LordDragon> https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/kfp9TW/basic-htpc-build
[21:34] <LordDragon> 278 bucks
[21:34] <LordDragon> amazing
[21:34] <Shadow__X> and there ya go, although i would prefer a quad core for a backend, we probably have different use cases
[21:35] <LordDragon> yeah?
[21:35] <LordDragon> so the dual core wouldnt be enough to record a show in the background while frontend is showing live tv?
[21:35] <Shadow__X> thats fine
[21:36] <Shadow__X> my offline backend has a core 2 duo e8400 (it is long over due to retirement)
[21:36] <Shadow__X> but dual core isn't enough for transcoding
[21:36] <Shadow__X> well for me it isn't atleast
[21:37] <LordDragon> ahh ok
[21:37] <LordDragon> i wouldnt be doing transcoding
[21:38] <LordDragon> which cpu woud you recommend? there a several amd 4 core
[21:38] <Shadow__X> none off the top of my head
[21:38] <Shadow__X> i haven't looked at that line up too closely in a while
[21:38] <LordDragon> i dont know anytyhing about amd
[21:39] <Shadow__X> just keep in mind the nuc will use less electricity at idle than the machine you build
[21:39] <Shadow__X> there are trade offs
[21:39] <Shadow__X> the nucs use laptop parts
[21:39] <LordDragon> https://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-ad580kwohjbox
[21:40] <LordDragon> i doubt it will use more power than the HUGE dvr box my cable company gave me before :P
[21:42] <Shadow__X> just because its huge doesn't mean it uses a bunch of electricity, have you put a watt metere on it?
[21:42] <LordDragon> i returned in when i got my hdhomerun
[21:42] <LordDragon> but it was loud and had a full size 3.5 inch hdd
[21:43] <Shadow__X> gotcha
[21:43] <LordDragon> on the other hand, im sure it didnt have anything as powerful as that amd cpu
[21:43] <LordDragon> and amd are very power hungry
[21:44] <Shadow__X> well yes and no
[21:44] <Shadow__X> at idle they are competitive with intel
[21:44] <Shadow__X> under load not really but i don't know how the fm2 line fall into that
[21:44] <Shadow__X> i have an fx8320 that idles close to my intel parts
[21:44] <Shadow__X> but under load it uses more electricity
[21:45] <LordDragon> hmm
[21:45] <LordDragon> 300 bucks for a complete system though
[21:45] <LordDragon>  thats awesome
[21:46] <LordDragon> i didnt know it could be done for so cheap
[21:46] <Shadow__X> yup, you don't need to spend 1k
[21:47] <Shadow__X> you could probably go intel at that price point too if you wanted
[21:47] <Shadow__X> but probably not an i3
[21:48] <LordDragon> iw as thinking that pentium anniversary one
[21:48] <LordDragon> that was cheap but fairly powerful
[21:50] <Shadow__X> if its the one i am thinking off you can oc it too
[21:50] <Shadow__X> if you live my a microcenter they had a deal on them with a motherboard
[21:50] <Shadow__X> not sure if thats still going on
[21:51] <LordDragon> hmm that site is saying intel htpc is more like 500
[21:52] <Shadow__X> don't listen then!
[21:54] <LordDragon> dude!!
[21:54] <LordDragon> $64.89
[21:54] <LordDragon> for G3258
[21:54] <LordDragon> great deal
[21:54] <LordDragon> i dont think it has hyperthreading though
[21:54] <LordDragon> so 2 threads only
[21:55] <LordDragon> would that be enough? 3.2 ghz with overclockability
[21:57] <Shadow__X> LordDragon: pentium dual core with z97 mb that you can overclock
[21:57] <Shadow__X> http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6W9fBm
[21:58] <Shadow__X> 307
[21:59] <LordDragon> i was doing that same thing
[21:59] <LordDragon> except looking for a bit better of a mobo
[21:59] <LordDragon> i thought asrock were very unreliable
[22:01] <Shadow_X1> ok back
[22:01] <Shadow_X1> i was going to say that the amd chips can oc as well
[22:01] <Shadow_X1> the pentium i linked to with the z97 mb can oc
[22:03] <Shadow_X1> i had to switch nicks, my vps will be doing down soon
[22:07] <LordDragon> ah ok
[22:07] <LordDragon> i thought asrock were very unreliable?


[07:47] <rights> Excuse me, I stop using launchpad account. and How to stop using and resign ?
[07:48] <rights> Please tell me the page that web site.
[07:49] <rights> If you can't this answer, tell me too.
[07:52] <rights> Anybody knows ?
[08:12] <rights> thx , I ask #launchapd and deactivated.


[11:09] <highvoltage> stgraber: seems like adding ubiquity do depends made no difference
[11:09] <highvoltage> haven't had time yet to look into that behaviour yet.
[11:34] <smartboyhw> highvoltage, I've got the Edubuntu amd64 daily synced here, just waiting for Beta 1 testing starts:)
[12:19] <xnox> highvoltage: stgraber: i like how the boot menu has edubuntu logo. I think some flavours are missing that customization. And i don't think ubuntu logos are unified across: netboot, server & desktop images
[12:21] <highvoltage> xnox: boot logo as in the plymouth theme or syslinux image?
[12:22] <xnox> highvoltage: syslinux image, i believe.
[12:22] <xnox> highvoltage: also ubiquity launcher icon is gone, it has been renamed from ubiquity-gtkui.desktop => ubiquity.desktop, maybe edubuntu settings package needs to be adjusted.
[12:22] <highvoltage> ah yes. I know the netboot and minimal isos had old logos for a long long time
[12:58] <highvoltage> stgraber: xnox uploaded a new ubiquity that skips the sso-plugin on edubuntu and I reverted the changes in edubuntu-live. I think this is the best way to do it. Can you make britney make that go through?
[12:58] <xnox> ubiquity_2.15.16.dsc (soon to be uploaded)
[12:59] <highvoltage> and edubuntu-live_13.08.3.dsc
[13:30] <jbicha> I'm thinking GNOME Flashback should identify itself as "Unity" instead of as "GNOME"
[13:31] <highvoltage> heh.
[13:31] <highvoltage> well with compiz it's like Unity Flashback
[13:31] <jbicha> because it uses indicators by default and other features that make it more similar to Unity than to GNOME Shell
[13:31] <highvoltage> aaah, right.
[13:31] <highvoltage> but it's been like that on ubuntu for a long time.
[13:32] <jbicha> there's quite a few patches in desktop patches that adjust behavior only when "Unity" is running
[13:32] <highvoltage> ah.
[13:34] <jbicha> currently you get the gnome user help instead of the ubuntu-customized user help