 We just have a 1 1/2 hr long meeting at work
[12:48] <LaserJock> I like books too
[12:49] <robotgeek> hmm, LaserJock
[12:49] <LaserJock> especially since I can read about computers without having to be on one
[12:51] <Burgwork> LaserJock, you can do a book even if we drop books
[12:53] <LaserJock> waahooo
[12:53] <LaserJock> where?
[12:53] <Burgwork> mdke, where is that?
[12:54] <mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1104384
[12:54] <LaserJock> hmm, and I was thinking of suggesting a move away from using the wiki for docs
[12:55] <mdke> is anyone from the UDSF here?
[12:56] <mdke> doesn't look like it :/
[12:57] <Burgwork> KingBahamut hangs out hin here
[01:01] <Burgwork> LaserJock, why would you suggest a move away?
[01:01] <Burgwork> we need a merging and if the wiki can offer us docbook, I don't see any reason why we would want to move away
[01:02] <LaserJock> because I'm just not seeing the point, I guess
[01:02] <Burgwork> the point of what? webediting?
[01:02] <LaserJock> wiki seems great for quick and dirty collaboration
[01:02] <robotgeek> LaserJock: maybe then we would not need ALL contributors to be good at docbook
[01:03] <LaserJock> but I just don't see it as a very good help system
[01:03] <Burgwork> we can do more agressive ACL's when it comes down to release time
[01:03] <Burgwork> maybe get some hacking to do frozen pages for release
[01:03] <robotgeek> linuxmonkey wants to write documentation for us :)
[01:03] <linuxmonkey> :)
[01:04] <LaserJock> if people knew what they were doing and how there writing affected other pages
[01:04] <LaserJock> but it just doesn't seem to have any flow or structure, to me
[01:04] <Burgwork> because it gets ignored
[01:04] <Burgwork> if it was the primary place we wrote, it would be a very different place
[01:04] <linuxmonkey> ive been fixing stuff on the wiki and want to help with docs too for kubuntu :)
[01:05] <LaserJock> I've just been getting the impression that we have outgrown our wiki
[01:05] <Burgwork> uhh
[01:05] <LaserJock> it seems like a complete mess
[01:05] <robotgeek> linuxmonkey: we are in the midst of "brainstroming"
[01:05] <Burgwork> see my previous point
[01:05] <robotgeek> anyways, i need tp run now :). later
[01:05] <LaserJock> but that is my point
[01:06] <linuxmonkey> brainstorming on any specific subject
[01:06] <LaserJock> Burgwork: it doesn't seem like we have enough resources to make it better
[01:06] <LaserJock> don't have, I mean
[01:06] <Burgwork> you don't ignore a dog for a while and then wonder why it has mange and piddles on the carpet
[01:06] <mdke> we need to get the whole community involved
[01:07] <mdke> hopefully focusing things on help.u.c will help
[01:07] <Burgwork> I'm stoked
[01:07] <LaserJock> Burgwork: but how is it being ignored? People are using it all the time, a lot of our conversation as a team is about wiki material
[01:07] <Burgwork> yes, but how much are we actually fixing it?
[01:07] <LaserJock> right
[01:07] <Burgwork> if the doc team was teh major editor, leadership would created better docs
[01:08] <Burgwork> currently most of the edits come from people who we don't know
[01:08] <LaserJock> right
[01:08] <Burgwork> we also have a major communication issue on the wiki
[01:08] <LaserJock> yes
[01:09] <LaserJock> but I'm wondering how we propose to fix these issues
[01:09] <Burgwork> but that can be solved through begging for money/time/developers from mark :0
[01:09] <Burgwork> :0
[01:09] <Burgwork> :), even
[01:09] <linuxmonkey> I think that docs/wiki should have a section for non specific display manager (No matter the display manager this would pertain to all) and then a section for each individual other like gnome, kde and such, instead of having stuff mixed on the same pages
[01:09] <Burgwork> linuxmonkey, we try and make it as non-specific as possible
[01:09] <Burgwork> can you give us a specific example?
[01:10] <linuxmonkey> hehe yeah look at wiki for RestrictedFormats
[01:10] <Burgwork> that is quite non-specific
[01:10] <linuxmonkey> main one that pops into my head
[01:10] <Burgwork> restrictedformats needs an ACL, to be honest
[01:10] <Burgwork> there is no need for many random people to be editing that page
[01:11] <linuxmonkey> yeah but the issue is that theres alot of stuff in there thats Ubuntu specific and then stuff thats kubuntu specific
[01:11] <Burgwork> yep
[01:11] <Burgwork> I would welcome concrete proposals on how to deal with it
[01:11] <linuxmonkey> and users get mixed up
[01:11] <Burgwork> it is a known issue
[01:11] <Burgwork> s/I/we
[01:12] <Burgwork> sorry if I am being abrupt. I got subjected to a useless meeting today at work and am tired about lack of "concrete proposals"
[01:12] <linuxmonkey> s/l/we? take my appologies but what does that mean
[01:12] <mdke> it means replace "I" with "we" in his previous message
[01:13] <linuxmonkey> ah
[01:13] <LaserJock> man, that page is huge
[01:14] <Burgwork> things like shockwave need to be split out
[01:15] <LaserJock> good night mdke
[01:15] <Burgwork> night mdke
[01:15] <LaserJock> I'd love to see using some sort of namespace for the different releases
[01:15] <linuxmonkey> exactly
[01:15] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how practical it is
[01:16] <linuxmonkey> well it would take a bit more server space but be easyer for support
[01:19] <LaserJock> I think the most difficult part is having people decide when something is specific to a release or not
[01:19] <mdke> it would be hell to maintain, given that most things are the same over all releases
[01:19] <LaserJock> I'm just really struggling with structure right now, and I'm tired
[01:20] <LaserJock> but I have another 5hrs before I get to go home
[01:21] <LaserJock> I have high hopes for the new help.u.c wiki
[01:21] <Burgwork> I realize it is a good building block
[01:22] <linuxmonkey> so how does one become an official member of the doc team
[01:22] <LaserJock> you work where we can see your contribution
[01:23] <LaserJock> hang out with us, and bribes certainly should help ;-)
[01:23] <Burgwork> linuxmonkey, for the wiki team, simply edit some wiki pages and apply. For the doc team, patches to our svn repo
[01:23] <linuxmonkey> wiki ..already edited quite a few pages
[01:24] <linuxmonkey> and for doc. reading the getting started section
[01:24] <Burgwork> linuxmonkey, if you apply, create a wiki page with a list of contributions and have that linked from the LP page
[01:25] <linuxmonkey> wiki page allready created
[01:25] <Burgwork> cool
[01:25] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[01:25] <Burgwork> hmm?
[01:25] <linuxmonkey> Linuxmonkey
[01:30] <linuxmonkey> anyways i got to go cook supper, ttyl
[01:33] <mdke> hey, the storage facility has some good stuff.
[01:33] <mdke> we need to get these two groups working together *grits teeth*
[01:34] <mdke> http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/AppHelper
[01:34] <mdke> http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Terminology
[01:34] <Burgwork> isn't USDF pd?
[01:34] <Burgwork> I think we can take as needed
[01:35] <Burgwork> I think if we take a proactive approach to porting stuff, we will be good
[01:35] <mdke> in theory yes, but I don't know whether they have the right to pd it, having taken much material from the forum
[01:35] <Laser_away> isn't the forum PD?
[01:35] <mdke> I think you might be right about that
[01:35] <mdke> porting things might be a good way to bring things closer
[01:36] <mdke> take small steps and so on
[01:36] <Burgwork> mere aggregation of data, like that first one is clearly not copyrightable
[01:36] <mdke> try and convince the storage center contributors/admins that collaborating is absolutely an option
[01:36] <Burgwork> if we put a link at the bottom of all pages "Now been ported. See h.u.c/X"
[01:36] <Burgwork> that might get the idea
[01:37] <mdke> if they are up for that, yeah
[01:37] <Burgwork> I would just do it, guerilla style
[01:37] <mdke> oh dear
[01:37] <mdke> well don't go alienating half the community while I'm asleep, dear
[01:39] <mdke> damn, so annoying that the Ubuntu servers aren't resolving my domain right
[01:40] <mdke> my email is going to the wrong place and planet isn't getting my blog
[01:40] <mdke> >_<
[01:46] <Laser_away> darn it, I'm trying to figure out whether I should print out a 288 book or not
[01:48] <Laser_away> bah, I'm sure my boss won't mind :-)
[02:03] <Burgwork> mdke, yes, mdke
[02:06] <Burgwork> mdke, or should I say, mom ;)
[02:06] <Laser_away> hehe
[03:37] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot
[03:37] <Madpilot> hi
[04:07] <Burglaptop> oh geez I am glad we are moving to our own wiki
[04:07] <Burglaptop> look at what Jriddel just did
[04:07] <LaserJock> where?
[04:08] <Burglaptop> on the wiki
[04:08] <Burglaptop> KubuntuXGL
[04:08] <LaserJock> heh
[04:17] <Burglaptop> oi, jsgotangco
[04:17] <LaserJock> jsgotangco!
[04:18] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: you are working on teh Userful stuff?
[04:18] <LaserJock> not this minute
[04:18] <jsgotangco> hi! long time no see!
[04:18] <LaserJock> I had to take care of some research today
[04:19] <Burglaptop> ah
[04:19] <Burglaptop> no worries
[04:19] <Burglaptop> I am just trying to prevent Tim from breathing down my neck
[04:19] <LaserJock> I think his timeline is definately doable
[04:19] <Burglaptop> he is going to be in town on Thursday, so I have to deal with him in person
[04:19] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: are you good at bzr?
[04:20] <LaserJock> umm, I can use it, usually
[04:20] <LaserJock> what do you need
[04:20] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: I feel for you, really.
[04:20] <Burglaptop> tbbbhhh...
[04:20] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: on bzr viz, what does a yellow branch indicate?
[04:20] <jsgotangco> and a green one as well
[04:21] <LaserJock> hmm, I've never done viz before
[04:21] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:21] <LaserJock> sorry
[04:22] <jsgotangco> ah wait i understand it now
[04:22] <jsgotangco> from head someone branched then it was merged
[04:22] <jsgotangco> but the branch continued to work on his own
[04:22] <jsgotangco> then it got merged again
[04:22] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:23] <Burglaptop> what are you working on?
[04:23] <jsgotangco> im looking at the history of hwdb client
[04:23] <Burglaptop> ah, ok
[04:23] <Burglaptop> going to be working on it
[04:23] <Burglaptop> ?
[04:24] <jsgotangco> well not really,
[04:24] <Burglaptop> ahhhh
[04:24] <jsgotangco> just started branching from ogra's bzr archives
[04:24] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: do you have to install something besides bzr to get bzr viz
[04:24] <Burglaptop> I want some hwdb/laptop/server testing love
[04:24] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: bzrk
[04:24] <LaserJock> ah, right
[04:25] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop: atm i think the hardware identifier is random, hence its possible to have multiple entries of the same hardware
[04:25] <Burglaptop> yep, taht is an issue
[04:25] <Burglaptop> hmm, md5 sum of something?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> yes very much
[04:26] <LaserJock> I think hwdb will get lots of love in edgy
[04:26] <jsgotangco> massaging the current data is not that hard
[04:26] <Burglaptop> if you md5 summed a specific piece of hardware, it should work
[04:26] <Burglaptop> maybe login account would be better
[04:26] <Burglaptop> let the user choose the machine themselves
[04:27] <jsgotangco> you mean let the user create a hw profile
[04:27] <jsgotangco> ?
[04:27] <jsgotangco> that lists his entries?
[04:28] <LaserJock> we should make them sign up on LP, report at least 2 bugs, and pass an Ubuntu IQ test before that though ;-)
[04:28] <Burglaptop> yep, and tie their hardware profile to their LP name
[04:29] <jsgotangco> i could make a mockup in glade
[04:29] <Burglaptop> you could. I hate glade
[04:29] <Burglaptop> really clunky to use
[04:30] <LaserJock> oh wow, bzr viz is neato
[04:30] <Burglaptop> is it some gtk boog?
[04:31] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:31] <jsgotangco> it was obviously inspired by git
[04:33] <Burglaptop> nahh..
[04:35] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: you think I should write out a plan for RestrictedFormats and get feedback or just dive into it?
[04:35] <linuxmonkey> Burglaptop: do u know if libdvdread3 can be installed with any package manager app or do you have to use apt-get
[04:36] <Burglaptop> yes, it can, but then the issue of the isntall script for the css part
[04:36] <linuxmonkey> thats easy
[04:36] <linuxmonkey> just have to tell them to run that command
[04:36] <Burglaptop> still needs to be run in a terminal
[04:36] <Burglaptop> true
[04:37] <linuxmonkey> so are we gonna have a seperate wiki or still using ubuntu's, whats the direction were taking
[04:38] <Burglaptop> the documentation is being moved off, any day now
[04:38] <linuxmonkey> so what exact;y does that mean?
[04:39] <Burglaptop> anything in CatDoc is being moved to help.ubuntu.com
[04:39] <linuxmonkey> still in wiki format?
[04:39] <Burglaptop> yep, to another moin wiki
[04:39] <Burglaptop> same editing, etc.
[04:40] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop: i am not sure, people who refer/use RestrictedFormats is quite diverse in their opinion as well
[04:40] <linuxmonkey> Burglaptop: im gonna edit the dvd section and let me know how i did
[04:40] <Burglaptop> linuxmonkey: uhh, wait up a sec
[04:40] <linuxmonkey> uh ok
[04:40] <Burglaptop> honestly, can you find another page to edit?
[04:41] <linuxmonkey> possibly
[04:41] <Burglaptop> not to be rude, but RestrictedFormats needs a light touch, due to how heavily trafficed it is
[04:41] <linuxmonkey> ive edited it befor
[04:41] <linuxmonkey> lol
[04:41] <Burglaptop> yep, and so have I
[04:41] <Burglaptop> in fact, there are too many people editing it
[04:41] <Burglaptop> we really need to ACL it
[04:41] <linuxmonkey> fixed other peoples mistakes is what I kept fixing
[04:41] <linuxmonkey> that we do
[04:42] <Burglaptop> ok, my laptop has absolute shite for battery life
[05:03] <nixternal> and like that he is gone...right as i finish ;)
[05:04] <Burgundavia> nixternal: I am never gone
[05:04] <nixternal> lol
[05:04] <Burgundavia> Burglaptop is also Burgundavia is also Burgwork
[05:04] <nixternal> where there is one, there is many
[05:04] <nixternal> i kinda figured that...but it is like you went to sleep with lappy ;)
[05:05] <Burgundavia> yes, laptop has crap battery life
[05:05] <nixternal> as i do more, i will continue adding them to my wiki Burgundavia...now as i do anything, im adding it to my notepad as i work..this way here i can keep track..which is what i should have done from the get go
[05:05] <Burgundavia> ok cool
[05:05] <nixternal> oh..i know about crappy battery life..i need a new battery as a matter of fact
[05:06] <nixternal> so CatDoc is heading over to help.ubuntu.com...how much are the changes going to impact the current wiki setup?
[05:07] <Burgundavia> the whole catdoc is moving
[05:07] <Burgundavia> redirects left in their place
[05:07] <nixternal> so a search on the old direct will lead you to a redirect then..ok..that works
[05:07] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:07] <nixternal> so anyone currently linked to a wiki page won't be screwed then..that is cool
[05:08] <nixternal> i thought my bookmarks were in for it there for a second ;)
[05:08] <nixternal> lol...i was cracking up when you went after him on that one
[05:08] <nixternal> Burgundavia: what exactly did he do wrong there, so I am not to recreate an instance similar to that?
[05:09] <Burgundavia> nixternal: what do you mean?
[05:09] <nixternal> he did something you didn't like with the KubuntuXGL
[05:10] <Burgundavia> he did not consider namespace collisions
[05:10] <nixternal> i don't want to follow that example
[05:10] <nixternal> ahhh..ok
[05:10] <Burgundavia> people searching for how to install XGL would come across his spec
[05:10] <Burgundavia> pretty much the largest reason we are moving the docs off
[05:11] <nixternal> that is good to know
[05:11] <nixternal> what is the outcome going to be for wiki.ubuntu.com? will it eventually go away, used for something else?
[05:11] <Burgundavia> nope, it will stay what is used for now: internal Ubuntu communication and specs
[05:12] <nixternal> ok...great..i am looking at help.ubuntu.com now..i should have done that from the get go...it makes more sense to me now
[05:12] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:13] <Burgundavia> it has been a hard slog for other people to see what you just did
[05:13] <nixternal> hehe
[05:13] <nixternal> have fun installing
[05:14] <Burgundavia> need it for doc purposes
[05:14] <nixternal> true..need to keep that going...especially since a lot of people jumped to Dapper here recently
[05:14] <jsgotangco> are you going to do an upgrade?
[05:15] <Burgundavia> no, just to see how things are done
[05:15] <LaserJock> you're going to do a real install?
[05:15] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:16] <LaserJock> have fun then :-)
[05:16] <jsgotangco> i did a warty install before just for nostalgia
[05:16] <Burgundavia> doing it now
[05:17] <LaserJock> I've never installed warty, I came to Ubuntu when Hoary was just about released
[05:17] <linuxmonkey> ok just edit another page for the better
[05:17] <linuxmonkey> :)
[05:17] <linuxmonkey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuArtwork <--fixed the top of the page :)
[05:17] <jsgotangco> i gotta go
[05:17] <jsgotangco> see you guys later
[05:18] <Burgundavia> are we moving non-english docs? mdke?
[05:19] <linuxmonkey> Burgundavia: check that out and tell me if you like it better, its all equal now and not allover the place :)
[05:19] <Burgundavia> linuxmonkey: looks good
[05:19] <linuxmonkey> check the before and after, quite a difference I find
[05:20] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:20] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxHowTo <-- should I just kill this?
[05:21] <linuxmonkey> id vote yes on killing
[05:22] <linuxmonkey> but i dont have a official vote yet...lol
[05:24] <nixternal> Burgundavia: +
[05:24] <nixternal> Burgundavia: +1
[05:24] <nixternal> nice numlock ;)
[05:24] <linuxmonkey> lol
[05:24] <nixternal> wireless keyboard...i can't tell if it is on or not until i use it ;)
[05:27] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, doesn't look like anyone's done anything substantial to it since it was imported from the new wiki. I'd vote for nuking it.
[05:28] <Madpilot> From orbit, because that's the only way to be sure. ;)
[05:28] <Burgundavia> do we need a guide on how to install extensions, etc?
[05:28] <Burgundavia> and the how and why or our security policy?
[05:29] <Madpilot> what's an extension? ;) <-- not a Firefox user
[05:29] <Burgundavia> nor am I
[05:29] <Burgundavia> I will rewrite it
[05:30] <linuxmonkey> Burgundavia: how about that wiki team
[05:30] <Burgundavia> linuxmonkey: have you applied to join?
[05:31] <linuxmonkey> thats what I wanted to know how to
[05:31] <linuxmonkey> i asked around earlyer
[05:31] <Burgundavia> hmm, I don't see you
[05:31] <Burgundavia> apply to join
[05:32] <nixternal> i wouldn't think so Burgundavia on firefox extensions...because all you do is click the "install now" and restart firefox
[05:33] <nixternal> linuxmonkey: quit following me ;)
[05:33] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[05:33] <Burgundavia> well, we need a doc to explain Ubuntu security policy as well
[05:33] <linuxmonkey> u followed me over..I thought I had clicked the join team..lol
[05:34] <Burgundavia> hmm, I don't see an email
[05:35] <Burgundavia> oh, wait there you are
[05:35] <Burgundavia> approved
[05:35] <linuxmonkey> ty :)
[05:35] <linuxmonkey> I feel loved
[05:35] <Burgundavia> linuxmonkey: it is nice to use your realname in LP and on the wiki
[05:35] <Burgundavia> don't get used to it ;0
[05:35] <Burgundavia> ;), rather
[05:35] <nixternal> the only thing i could see of importance to the firefox wiki, would be the fixes for kde concerning the nsFilePicker.js and the FILEPICKER_CONTRACTID fix
[05:36] <linuxmonkey> I feel that using a fake name could hinder future involvment with kubuntu and other projects of open source
[05:36] <nixternal> all that really does is give you the kde feeling when you do file>open really
[05:38] <linuxmonkey> Burgundavia: I know other teams get custom hostmask on irc is this the case for the wikiteam as well
[05:39] <Burgundavia> for /member/ubuntu/Burgundavia ?
[05:39] <Burgundavia> for that you need to be an Ubuntu memeber
[05:39] <linuxmonkey> ok cool
[05:39] <Madpilot> linuxmonkey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto if you're interested
[05:41] <linuxmonkey> yeah i read that, i'll hold off on that for bit till I get more edits under my belt
[05:42] <Madpilot> you generally need to do more than just wiki stuff for membership - other docs, help in IRC/the forums, etc
[05:43] <linuxmonkey> yeah i help in #kubuntu all the time too
[05:44] <linuxmonkey> and did some artwork too
[05:44] <Madpilot> cool
[05:44] <Madpilot> that all helps towards membership
[05:44] <Madpilot> are you on the Docteam mailing list, linuxmonkey?
[05:45] <linuxmonkey> anyways for the wiki do we have an agenda on LP?
[05:46] <linuxmonkey> im on the docs mailing list
[05:46] <linuxmonkey> is there a seperate list for us?
[05:46] <Burgundavia> no
[05:48] <Burgundavia> uggh, more stubs
[05:48] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VLC
[05:49] <linuxmonkey> lol
[05:49] <Burgundavia> opinions?
[05:49] <linuxmonkey> lol not much there now..lol
[05:50] <linuxmonkey> it was created with intent for one of us to edit I guess
[05:50] <Madpilot> Death to stubs, esp. ones for obscure media players
[05:51] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: can you deal with HowCome >
[05:51] <Burgundavia> ?
[05:51] <Madpilot> UbuntuHowCome?
[05:52] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:52] <linuxmonkey> got something for me :)
[05:52] <Burgundavia> CategoryCleanup is full of them
[05:53] <Madpilot> some of the holes in that doc I don't know enough to fill - startup details of Ubuntu/Canonical, etc. I'll have another look at it, though
[05:53] <linuxmonkey> ok cool
[05:53] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: pass it on to Jane Silber for review
[05:54] <Madpilot> assuming she has any free time at all :)
[05:54] <Madpilot> it is post-release right now though
[05:54] <Burgundavia> now is a good time
[05:55] <Madpilot> yeah
[05:55] <Madpilot> now is also a good time for me to go shopping. Back later.
[05:56] <linuxmonkey> lol
[05:57] <linuxmonkey> Burgundavia: ok so most stuff in the cleanup need to be redone? what if its a partial dupe from another wifi
[05:58] <Burgundavia> linuxmonkey: Cleanup means it needs some work
[05:58] <Burgundavia> bad style, incorrect commands, incomplete
[05:58] <linuxmonkey> ok cool
[05:59] <linuxmonkey> once its fixed do I remove it from the cleanup class
[05:59] <Burgundavia> pass it by me first
[06:00] <linuxmonkey> ok and if it has screenshots is there a place were we can upload those?
[06:01] <nixternal> to intarweb silly
[06:01] <nixternal> ;)
[06:01] <Burgundavia> no, as attachments
[06:04] <linuxmonkey> ok this is gonna sound dumb but how do I do that Ive never had to do attachments before and dotn see a button for it
[06:06] <Burgundavia> drop down menu
[06:08] <linuxmonkey> ok for some reason i got no drop down in konq
[06:08] <linuxmonkey> gonna have to use firefox
[06:10] <linuxmonkey> Burgundavia: what browser do u use
[06:10] <Burgundavia> epiphany
[06:11] <linuxmonkey> you like it?
[06:11] <Burgundavia> love it
[06:12] <linuxmonkey> so your on gnome?
[06:13] <Burgundavia> nothing else
[06:13] <linuxmonkey> ah. lol im currently on KDE
[06:15] <linuxmonkey> i sort of want to get both on here
[06:15] <linuxmonkey> lol
[06:18] <linuxmonkey> im out for the night guys, ttyl
[06:20] <Burgundavia> cya
[06:20] <linuxmonkey> its 1:20 AM and I work at 9AM
[06:20] <linuxmonkey> lol I havent slept in about 48 hours
[06:21] <Burgundavia> you are nuts
[06:27] <Burgundavia> my wired nic is not going to work and madwifi is borked for some reason
[06:46] <Burgundavia> robitaille: do you figure it is even worth seeing if skype installs on Hoary?
[07:06] <Burgundavia> wow, breezy takes about twice as long to install as hoary
[07:08] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  I think it is a waste of time...
[07:08] <Burgundavia> ya, me too
[07:09] <Burgundavia> going to test breezy though
[07:21] <nixternal> launchpad is going down in 10 minutes for maintenance
[07:25] <Burgundavia> hey ghee22
[07:49] <ic56> here, I'm back.
[07:50] <Madpilot> hi
[07:50] <ic56> Writing comments in a script.  Do I say "GNOME menu bar> Places> Computer", or "top panel> Places> Computer", or just "Places> Computer"?
[07:50] <Burgundavia> the last
[07:52] <Burgundavia> ic56: why are you not in #ubuntu-ca ?
[07:52] <ic56> One vote for the short answer.  Anyone else?
[07:53] <Burgundavia> ic56: see how our docs do it
[07:53] <Madpilot> our docs all use the short way
[07:54] <ic56> Burgundavia: I'm normally in #ubuntu .  I think I tried #ubuntu-ca once and it was pretty dead.  There isn't much point to it anyway -- English-speaking Canadians go to #ubuntu, French-speaking ones to #ubuntu-fr
[07:54] <Burgundavia> ic56: you should check it out now
[07:54] <Burgundavia> community doesn't happen with you
[07:54] <ic56> Madpilot: thanks!
[09:05] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rss-glx  <- finished this. applied the basic style and guidelines, as well as fixed spelling errors and grammar. i sent an email to the doc-team recommending a rename in order to follow the guidelines
[09:05] <ic56> guest_anonnnn: ubutu told me:  http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/hardware.html#installatidriver or
[09:05] <ic56>         https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI ... the radeon 9200 and below
[09:05] <ic56>         https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI ... the radeon 9200 and below
[09:07] <Madpilot> ic56 ?
[09:07] <ic56> Madpilot: yes?
[09:07] <Madpilot> nixternal, thanks
[09:07] <nixternal> np Madpilot..glad to be helping
[09:07] <Madpilot> just wondering what the paste was about
[09:07] <ic56> Madpilot: quack?
[09:07] <ic56> Madpilot: just helping guest_anonnnn
[09:08] <Madpilot> wrong channel :)
[09:08] <ic56> Madpilot: :-)
[09:09] <nixternal> lol
[09:11] <ic56> l
[09:23] <nixternal> BrainDump cleaned...email sent ;)
[09:24] <Madpilot> that page could just die, I think
[09:24] <Madpilot> it's so stubby it barely seems to qualify as a stub...
[09:24] <nixternal> well..i kind of thought the same..but if it was to stay, then i made it legible at least
[09:25] <Madpilot> good
[09:25] <nixternal> instead of having it's own page...maybe have a general [09:25] <nixternal> there you can put all the terms in one local
[09:25] <Madpilot> I think there's a glossary page somewhere on the wiki
[09:25] <nixternal> if there is and that is on there..then it can go bye bye
[09:29] <nixternal> the only dictionaries i see are for translation
[09:31] <nixternal> i will go through later and collect words in a notepad...see if there are enough to create a dictionary..and then maybe come up with a spec for approval...and then go from there...other needed that is more important right now
[09:31] <Madpilot> good idea. Could have sworn we had a glossary page somewhere, though
[09:32] <nixternal> i will look harder later..but as of right now i didn't come across one...if needed it can be built..no problem
[09:35] <nixternal> another thing i do, for safety issues...i copy the original wiki text and save it...then i rework the wiki and save that...so i have noted changes...plus if somehting was to happen, i have a local backup too...
[09:36] <Madpilot> you don't need to do that, actually. The wiki has it's own internal revision control
[09:37] <nixternal> i know..but i do it for security
[09:51] <nixternal> vinboy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiTeam and https://launchpad.net/people/wikiteam  <-- for more information concerning the wiki, the team, and the projects
[09:51] <Madpilot> hi vinboy
[09:52] <vinboy> hi gusy
[10:31] <mdke> Burgwork: yes I think we should
[10:33] <pygi> nixternal, whats wrong with wiki team?
[10:33] <nixternal> nothing that i know of
[10:33] <nixternal> why?
[10:34] <pygi> nothing, just seeing you are talking about wikiteam:)
[10:34] <nixternal> ahh..ya..i was letting him know where to go for some more info
[10:36] <mdke> it's a GREAT team
[10:37] <glatzor> hi mdke. I still have got the problems building the xml files for my translated desktop guide. perhaps I missed to check out some parts of the build system. do I need to check out the whole repo?
[10:37] <mdke> nixternal: are you still working on rss-glx, or can I take the lock?
[10:37] <mdke> glatzor: what's the error
[10:37] <nixternal> you can take it..im not working on it..
[10:38] <mdke> ok, remember to click cancel after editing if you decide not to change anything
[10:39] <mdke> otherwise it keeps your lock
[10:39] <glatzor> mdke: all paragraphs that contain a link are not translated. validate.sh complains about missing entities.
[10:40] <bhuvan> mdke: i'm preparing an article on ubuntu for a local magazine. i'm covering subversion and mailman installation & configuration. i assume i can go ahead (correct me if i'm wrong)
[10:40] <glatzor> wait I rerun the translate.sh script
[10:41] <mdke> bhuvan: course, nice
[10:41] <bhuvan> mdke: thank you!
[10:41] <mdke> glatzor: right, you'll need the entities that are referred to by the file
[10:43] <mdke> nixternal: ok, I've cleaned up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rss-glx a bit more, have a look. Diff is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rss-glx?action=diff Thanks for your work on that
[10:47] <nixternal> good deal...no problem mdke. now i have a better understanding on how you want those setup a little better
[10:52] <glatzor> mdke: where are these entities?
[10:54] <mdke> glatzor: it depends which document you're using. Look at the source and check, they will have the addresses to them.
[10:54] <mdke> checking out the whole branch is probably a good idea though
[10:55] <nixternal`zzz> g'nite all
[10:58] <mdke> night
[11:07] <glatzor> mdke: who. 135 mbyte :) is it difficult to produce the pdf files? the readme mentions some programms that I have never heard of. or should I use the simple xmlto?
[11:08] <mdke> glatzor: why do you want to produce them?
[11:08] <glatzor> mdke: to make reviewing easier.
[11:09] <mdke> can't you just use the html?
[11:10] <glatzor> mdke: they will be ok, too. I don't want to waste too much time for this, too. :)
[11:10] <mdke> glatzor: yeah, so I'd definitely advise not using the pdfs
[11:11] <glatzor> mdke: ok, that is a word.
[11:11] <glatzor> thanks.
[11:14] <glatzor> mdke: thanks. checking out the whole build system did the job.
[11:14] <glatzor> mdke: by the way when do you plan to update the translated documentations?
[11:16] <mdke> glatzor: I don't know.
[11:16] <mdke> soonish, maybe
[11:54] <cosmolax> hello! everyone.
[11:54] <mdke> hello cosmolax
[11:55] <cosmolax> I'll like to help on Ubuntu weekly newletter's translation.
[11:55] <cosmolax> Maybe first I should contact Matt ?
[11:55] <mdke> cosmolax: great! Matt can definitely help, sign up to our mailing list and check out the relevant newsletter wiki pages too
[11:56] <cosmolax> I have read the #issue 1, and I can translate it in two days.
[11:57] <mdke> cosmolax: sounds good. Your local team might be interested in publishing the translation on their website
[11:57] <cosmolax> In Taiwan we will have a Ubuntu Installfast, we hope we can provide more information about Ubuntu before that.
[11:58] <mdke> cool
[11:59] <cosmolax> so I think maybe provide a l10n news letter to get people's eye balls.:)
[12:00] <cosmolax> Actually I'm a member of Ubuntu in Taiwan(http://www.ubunbu.org.tw)
[12:01] <cosmolax> NewsLetter's translation is also part of our movement.
[12:01] <mdke> great idea
[12:02] <cosmolax> so if I got newsletter translated, and contact Matt a.s.a.p, and it would be put on Wiki of ubuntu.com?
[12:07] <cosmolax> OK, I subscribed the Maillist.Next step is contactting Matt. Thank you guys.Tonight I'll start my translating (timezone: CST+0800) :)
[12:25] <mdke> cosmolax: I'd advise you to stick it on the -tw website rather than the wiki, more zh_TW speakers will see it
[01:07] <cosmolax> mdke: I will.After translated, I'll provide on our local wiki and ask people to review it.:) then released.
[01:29] <glatzor> mdke: jsgotangco: what is the "default X_sequence" in the "Change default Operating System at boot" of the desktop guide is very confusing
[01:30] <jsgotangco> ?
[01:30] <glatzor> X_sequence is not a failed option and should be the number of the os
[01:30] <jsgotangco> what section is this?
[01:30] <glatzor> even the example file contains this option
[01:30] <glatzor> partition and booting
[01:30] <jsgotangco> (you'll probably get better answers from mdke since he's the author)
[01:38] <mdke> glatzor: no idea.
[01:40] <glatzor> mdke: the first reference to x_sequence at google is a problem thread at ubuntuforums :) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=250229
[01:45] <glatzor> I will fill a bug.
[01:46] <mdke> good stuff
[02:06] <glatzor> mdke: since I have now translated the half of the desktop guide, I am going to fill bug reports. Is it sufficient for you if I c&p the paragraph and name the corresponding section? Or do you want the exact line number?
[02:07] <mdke> glatzor: as long as we can understand what you are talking about
[02:09] <glatzor> I will try to give my best :)
[03:01] <jsgotangco> wohooo bugs!
[03:03] <jjesse> grin lots of bug mail for me this morning
[03:06] <mdke> glatzor: blimey
[03:07] <glatzor> should I stop? mdke
[03:07] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:07] <mdke> glatzor: no, keep going. You're obviously an extremely well organised perfectionist :)
[03:08] <jsgotangco> very
[03:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:34] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: ping?
[03:34] <jsgotangco> yes! yes! bugs! bugs!
[03:35] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: I'd like to talk about your docbook2moin conversion xslt.
[04:08] <jsgotangco> go bugs go!
[04:08] <jsgotangco> trillian?
[04:08] <jsgotangco> jjesse was on windows eh?
[04:10] <mdke> omg, I can't believe bug #48831
[04:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48831 in ubuntu-docs "lost+found is a feature of ext2/3 only [desktopguide - getting started] " [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48831
[04:12] <jsgotangco> well =)
[04:12] <jsgotangco> we do have reiserfs in the setup  heh
[04:12] <jjesse> jsgotangco: you enjoy playing the devils advocate :)
[04:12] <jsgotangco> its the best that i can do because i can't be the devil himself
[04:13] <mdke> some of these really need a Importance=almostzero
[04:13] <jsgotangco> whoa
[04:13] <jsgotangco> 29 bugs
[04:13] <jjesse> for kubuntu-docs?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-docs
[04:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:14] <mdke> there is a nasty kubuntu-docs bug already
[04:14] <mdke> the links in the browser homepage are broken
[04:14] <jjesse> the release notes suck
[04:14] <jjesse> oh you were talking about a different bug
[04:14] <mdke> yeah
[04:14] <jsgotangco> wow some of these can actually be merged to one
[04:14] <jsgotangco> but then, having more bugs make it more visible =)
[04:15] <jjesse> hmm why am i only seeing 3 results for all open bugs for kubuntu-docs
[04:17] <jsgotangco> meh let me triage some!
[04:17] <mdke> jjesse: probably there are only 3 bugs
[04:22] <mvirkkil> mdke: Do you know if anyone has developed on the xslt for docbook->moin besides jeffsch?
[04:23] <mvirkkil> mdke: I need to contact him about relicensing and stuff..
[04:23] <mvirkkil> mdke: Since I want to embrace and extend his work ;) (moin is gpl, which isn't compatible with CC-SA)
[04:24] <mdke> mvirkkil: no idea, just him AFAIK.
[04:25] <mgalvin> gesh the bugs keep coming
[04:26] <mdke> mvirkkil: planet is a bit broken with my blog at the moment.
[04:27] <jjesse> i hope people are going through the kubuntu-docs as good
[04:27] <jjesse> but i doubt it
[04:36] <jjesse> wouldn't it be easeir to chat on #ubuntu-bugs about all of these bug issues instead of spamming my mail box :)
[04:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:39] <jsgotangco> NO UBUNTU-DOC GETS ALL BUGS
[04:39] <jsgotangco> PONIES EVEN
[04:45] <DanielC> Hello, where is the hardware compatibility list? I know tht there is one...
[04:47] <jsgotangco> DanielC: there's one BUT its not clean (the data needs to be massaged further)
[04:47] <jsgotangco> DanielC: but if it works in debian, it'll most likely work in Ubuntu =)
[04:48] <DanielC> I need to find a laptop that will work with Ubuntu. What can I do?
[04:48] <mdke> DanielC: go to LaptopTestingTeam on the wiki
[04:48] <jsgotangco> wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[04:48] <jjesse> check out the wiki page? LaptopTestingTeam
[04:48] <DanielC> Ok, I'm there.
[04:48] <DanielC> thanks
[04:49] <jsgotangco> where are the bugs?
[04:49] <jsgotangco> more more more!
[04:55] <DanielC> Is there a list of recommended laptops?
[04:55] <mdke> don't think so
[04:55] <DanielC> :(
[04:55] <jsgotangco> well the toshibas are good performers so far
[04:55] <mdke> except for that page
[04:55] <jsgotangco> DanielC: you're better off checking out the results of the official test units
[04:55] <jsgotangco> from that page
[04:55] <DanielC> Ok, I'll aim for Toshiba.
[04:56] <mdke> I can heartily recommend the thinkpad I've got
[04:56] <mdke> dell should probably be good too
[04:56] <DanielC> mdke: What model is it?
[04:56] <DanielC> I can't get Dell but I can get most other makes.
[04:57] <DanielC> I was told to aim for a well known name (IBM, Toshiba are good).
[04:57] <mdke> the thinkpad I have is ThinkpadT43-1871
[04:57] <mdke> or thereabouts
[04:57] <DanielC> Ok, thanks.
[05:06] <nixternal> toshiba has a new laptop out, model starts with a "Q", but it is the most beautiful, the fastest, and has the best screen i have ever seen. i think i played with that laptop for 2 hours the other day at compusa
[05:12] <jeffsch> mvirkkil: pong
[05:17] <jjesse> linuxmonkey: ping?
[05:17] <nixternal> probably passed out somewhere...
[05:18] <nixternal> jjesse: i believe he was going to talk to you concerning the Kubuntu meeting yesterday and Kubuntu docs
[05:18] <jjesse> nixternal: yeah missed the meeting yesterday and riddel mentioned he was looking for me
[05:18] <nixternal> linuxmonkey, kmon, imbrandon, and myself have kind of jumped up and offered our services for helping with documentation as needed for Kubuntu
[05:19] <jjesse> nixternal: that is awesome to here
[05:20] <nixternal> that was in reference actually to a post by kmon on the Kubuntu/Meetings page in the wiki. kmon did mention he would poke you when he gets the time
[05:21] <nixternal> i believe they hinted at like a Kubuntu specific doc/wiki team, but that is up to Riddell for sure
[05:21] <jjesse> cool i'll be around, i noticed the meeting log wasn't up yet, where are the irc logs found again?
[05:21] <nixternal> let me see if imbrandon posted them yet
[05:22] <jjesse> nixternal: we discussed that here before but because we use the same tools as ubuntu-docs does and we all can work on all the docs we don't want to split it up
[05:22] <nixternal> exactly...which is what i have come to notice the past day by helping out the wiki team now
[05:24] <nixternal> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[05:24] <jjesse> found it
[05:24] <nixternal> they are somewhere in here ;)
[05:24] <jjesse> ubuntu-meeting-current
[05:25] <nixternal> hmm..that is like the 2nd half i believe
[05:26] <jjesse> yeah 6-06 is the first half
[05:26] <nixternal> yup..looking at that now
[05:27] <nixternal> i need some more poison...or coffee whatever it is this morning...brb
[05:28] <nixternal> back
[05:31] <nixternal> i also applied to the doc team yesterday per the conversations in the meeting and after the meeting. i have been kind of waiting for kmon on that since Riddell put him out in front since it was his topic in the meeting
[05:31] <jjesse> cool, i'll have to ping kmon when i get back form lunch
[05:32] <nixternal> good deal
[05:32] <nixternal> have a good lunch
[05:32] <jjesse> thanks have a good morning
[05:32] <nixternal> hehe
[05:32] <nixternal> lunch..where you at?
[05:32] <jjesse> michigan USA
[05:32] <nixternal> wo0t
[05:32] <nixternal> <- chicago
[05:32] <nixternal> from michigan though
[05:32] <jjesse> cool, you are an hour behind me time wise :)
[05:32] <nixternal> SW corner..
[05:33] <jjesse> i'm from west michigan Grand Rapids
[05:33] <nixternal> Benton Harbor ;)
[05:33] <nixternal> born and raised the first few years of my life
[05:33] <jsgotangco> chicago cool
[05:33] <nixternal> moved to chicago in like 79
[05:34] <nixternal> chicago is hot now
[05:35] <nixternal> im in the burbs now...couldn't take the hustle and bustle of down town, but i love the atmosphere
[05:56] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Hi
[05:56] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: I saw you wrote the original docbook->moin xslt.
[05:57] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Is the one in the ubuntu svn the latest version?
[05:57] <jeffsch> i think so
[05:57] <jeffsch> i haven't worked on it for a long time. i was planning to do more in July/August
[05:57] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Would you be willing to relicense or dual license it to gpl, for use inside moin?
[05:58] <jeffsch> yes. no problem.
[05:58] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Well, I'd be working on this in july too :)
[05:59] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Great. I'll try to create a system in to moin which would make importing docbooks directly possible. There is the issue of splitting off books' chapters in to articles, with the xslt route.
[06:00] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: it's part of my google summer of code project :)
[06:00] <jeffsch> great. how are you going to handle the loss of information in docbook->moin transformation?
[06:01] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: In this inital step, I'm not going to haveto worry about that.
[06:01] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: But I'm thinking some generally useful information like abbreviations and such should be made in to macros.
[06:02] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: And I also have a plan of attack for possibly emebedding xml in to the wikisyntax and parsing it out.
[06:02] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: That was a request from my mentoring organization, and so I've thought about it. I'm personally not very keen on the idea, but we'll see.
[06:04] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: You can read more about what I'm going to do at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinDocBookProject
[06:05] <jeffsch> yeah, embedding extra info into existing moin tags will probably work, but then you stop making moin and start making docbook, or something just as complicated :) :)
[06:05] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: You're probably most interested in steps 3->
[06:05] <jeffsch> ok. reading it now
[06:08] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Well, emedding it in to macros would work nicely for simple stuff.
[06:11] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: BTW, Sean Wheller (froud) asked me to say Hi from him, when I talk to you :) He pointed me to your xslt:s.
[06:12] <jeffsch> mvirkkil: thanks, say hi back to him for me
[06:12] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Any thoughts or suggestions re the project?
[06:14] <jsgotangco> hmm is this for your fedora SoC?
[06:15] <jeffsch> yes, but I'd like to think about it a bit before commenting. Is there a place on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinDocBookProject for comments?
[06:15] <mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Yup
[06:15] <jsgotangco> cool congrats too btw
[06:15] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Unfortunately not :/
[06:16] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: You can send mail, or comment on irc.
[06:16] <jeffsch> ok. is this there an irc channel for the project?
[06:17] <mvirkkil> Well, moin-dev might be appropriate.
[06:18] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: afaic they log the conversations there
[06:18] <mvirkkil> which could be handy
[06:32] <jeffsch> mvirkkil: i will change the license on a2m.xslt and commit it sometime today
[06:32] <enrico> What would you people think of this as a t-shirt desing? http://moon.bme.ym.edu.tw/photo/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=1
[06:33] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: What's your timezone?
[06:34] <jeffsch> pacific - west coast canada, ahmmm... -0700 i think
[06:36] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: so it's 7:30am?
[06:38] <jeffsch> 9:30
[06:38] <LaserJock> jeffsch: you're on the west coast?
[06:39] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Argh. Yeah..
[06:42] <enrico> wrt http://moon.bme.ym.edu.tw/photo/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=1 as a t-shirt design, I'm asking your opinion because the original idea was to make something with the Ubuntu and Debian logos inside.  I think the result is cute, but I don't know if it's easily decoded
[06:46] <mvirkkil> enrico: For what is it? Not sure how the deamon fits in to the equation?
[06:51] <jeffsch> mvirkkil: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Ideas/ArticleToMoinDesc
[06:52] <jeffsch> it was generated from a2m-desc.xml in teamstuff in the repos
[06:52] <enrico> mvirkkil: The daemon should be something of a Debian GNU/FreeBSD
[06:53] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: Was that the same document as the xml in the repo?
[06:54] <jeffsch> yes... it is moin generated from the xml using a2m.xslt
[06:56] <jeffsch> enrico: I see linux, bsd, debian, and ubuntu, but it takes a long time to figure out
[06:56] <enrico> jeffsch: thanks
[06:57] <enrico> It looks cute to me because I know the idea behind, but it's quite hard to decode
[06:57] <jeffsch> and i don't know what the person in the lower left is for; only to make three? or is it for some other system?
[06:57] <enrico> a t-shirt should probably not be hard to decode :)
[06:57] <enrico> jeffsch: GNU
[06:57] <LaserJock> rofl, that's awesome
[06:58] <jeffsch> ahhh... I thought that was a viking hat!
[06:58] <LaserJock> no, its the GNU goat or whatever it is
[06:59] <jeffsch> it's the GNU gnu
[06:59] <LaserJock> enrico: maybe you need to give him a beard
[07:00] <jeffsch> gnu is an african animal
[07:00] <enrico> LaserJock: ooh, right!
[07:01] <LaserJock> jeffsch: ah, cool. I always thought it was some kind of goat. I wondered why that was their mascot
[07:19] <mgalvin> enrico: haha, sweet, i actually like it a lot
[09:28] <LaserJock> bombs away
[09:28] <LaserJock> not here
[09:29] <LaserJock> on the forums, hopefully nobody gets squashed :-)
[09:29] <Burgwork> LaserJock, linky?
[09:30] <mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1108166#post1108166
[09:31] <jjesse> fire in the hole
[09:35] <LaserJock> hopefully I didn't sound to incredibly dumb and put the doc team back a release ;-)
[09:36] <Burgwork> LaserJock, don't worry about it
[09:36] <Burgwork> just wait until I let loose in there ;)
[09:36] <LaserJock> the thing is I really appreciate all the work the USDF people have done
[09:36] <Burgwork> I hate duplicated work
[09:36] <LaserJock> I just don't see why they wouldn't want to do it on the wiki
[09:37] <jjesse> i hate duplicate work as well
[09:37] <Burgwork> "lack of ownership"
[09:37] <mdke> Burgwork: I'd ask you to be careful on that thread
[09:37] <mdke> it's already got quite over-excited in private
[09:37] <Burgwork> mdke, don't worry your little heart, I am going to steer well clear
[09:38] <LaserJock> oops, should I have not posted mdke?
[09:38] <mdke> i think we're all agreed that collaboration is the way forward, but here there are social barriers that we just can't break through
[09:38] <Burgwork> LaserJock, you know the fun I had at work, well, that person is gone now
[09:39] <LaserJock> interesting
[09:45] <LaserJock> ok, last one. I've got to get my bean count up ;-)
[09:46] <mdke> you don't get beans for the community section
[09:46] <mdke> but you should still go ahead and post
[09:48] <LaserJock> doh
[09:48] <LaserJock> no karma either :(
[09:50] <crimsun> I'm a wussy. The forum scares the crap out of me.
[09:50] <crimsun> (well, ok, not really, but the posts come fast and furiously)
[09:51] <jjesse> i don't have time to post on the mailing lists plus on the forums
[10:06] <nixternal> LOL
[10:06] <LaserJock> no, not a flame spree
[10:06] <LaserJock> a contructive dialog spree ;-)
[10:06] <nixternal> from the look of it, you don't need to flame, because some of the people who reply are dimwitted and take stuff wrong, so it is them that usually starts the flaming
[10:06] <nixternal> hehe
[10:06] <jjesse> whats the link?
[10:07] <LaserJock> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1108364 I think
[10:18] <linuxmonkey> jjesse: wassup
[10:19] <nixternal> oh no...the monkey is alive
[10:20] <jjesse> not much busy with work
[10:20] <jjesse> i saw you are interested in kubuntu docs
[10:20] <linuxmonkey> yes sir
[10:20] <mdke> yay!
[10:20] <jjesse> that's great rock on
[10:21] <jjesse> have you taken a look at where you want to fit it?
[10:21] <jjesse> fit in
[10:21] <DavidBertho> hi, I'm planning to translate the newletter with the french translating team, I saw on the wiki page that i should tell
[10:21] <linuxmonkey> im also on the wiki team now too
[10:21] <jjesse> great you can help get the Kubuntu page re arranged
[10:21] <linuxmonkey> jjesse: I  fit in at alot of places..lol
[10:21] <nixternal> wiki wiki...that reminds me of an old breakdancing song
[10:21] <mdke> DavidBertho: great. I think it would be cool to arrange to publish it on ubuntu-fr.org
[10:22] <jjesse> have you looked at KubuntuDocs/Edgy
[10:22] <DavidBertho> we already talked about it on the french list :)
[10:22] <linuxmonkey> yes sir
[10:22] <mdke> DavidBertho: great.
[10:22] <jjesse> feel free to add your thoughts, and you don't have to call me sir :)
[10:22] <mdke> DavidBertho: you certainly don't need permission, go right ahead and translate!
[10:22] <nixternal> jjesse: did Riddell comment any further on the Kubuntu related docs? and I don't think I have seen kmon at all today either
[10:22] <linuxmonkey> lol
[10:23] <linuxmonkey> sorry just used to it
[10:23] <nixternal> omg
[10:23] <DavidBertho> nice :) just a "little" detail : how can i create new wiki pages ?
[10:23] <nixternal> kmon is in devel right now..im an idiot
[10:23] <jjesse> nixternal: i haven't spoke with kmon
[10:25] <mdke> DavidBertho: I think it's best to publish it on ubuntu-fr.org, but if you really want to create a new wiki page, just type the url of the page you want in the address bar of your browser
[10:25] <linuxmonkey> so yeah jjesse i was reading up on docbook
[10:25] <jjesse> cool
[10:26] <DavidBertho> ah ok ! thanks. i wanted to do that because it was explained on the translation page of the newsletter
[10:26] <linuxmonkey> and was gonna tackle a few wiki pages in the cleanup section
[10:27] <jjesse> tackle the Kubuntu page :)
[10:27] <linuxmonkey> yeah there one there that im planning on doing now
[10:28] <nixternal> there are a lot there
[10:28] <linuxmonkey> im gonna do https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuAddingRepositoriesHowto :)
[10:35] <DavidBertho> I got a question about the wiki : how to make a redirection ? (for example UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Current is redirecting to UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue1 )
[10:35] <nixternal> #redirect pagename
[10:35] <nixternal> #redirect ["UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue1"]
[10:35] <DavidBertho> i write that when editing the page ?
[10:36] <nixternal> put it at the top..i just created a redirect for RichJohnson >> nixternal that way
[10:36] <nixternal> correct..when editing the page
[10:36] <DavidBertho> ok thanks
[10:36] <nixternal> np
[10:54] <linuxmonkey> question for png images what should i set compression to for the wiki?
[10:55] <mdke> up to you
[10:56] <linuxmonkey> k
[11:15] <LaserJock> mdke: looks like we need a ubuntu-doc-forumtroller team ;-)
[11:15] <mdke> my vision is that the whole free support community does that job
[11:16] <Burgwork> mdke, did you get my query?
[11:16] <mdke> no
[11:16] <mdke> too many windows
[11:16] <mdke> hang on
[11:17] <nixternal> lol
[11:25] <linuxmonkey> nixternal: your gonna love the page im editing now
[11:26] <nixternal> im trying to figure out if my printer setup annoyance is a bug or not...you ever taken a look or searched for anything on bugs.kde.org?  my lord..i put every word i could think of for my search, and it still pops up way to many for me to look through this year ;)
[11:27] <nixternal> plus you can't sort
[11:48] <linuxmonkey> mdke who reviews the wiki pages once I did a major edit?
[11:49] <mdke> linuxmonkey: if you want someone to check it out, write to the mailing list, we'll take a look.
[11:49] <linuxmonkey> lol cant I just tell ya...lol just kidding, will do that
[11:50] <mdke> linuxmonkey: you can, if someone is here and has time, they'll also take a look
[11:50] <Burgwork> mdke, I can check it in a few hours if you mail the list
[11:50] <nixternal><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:51] <nixternal> there you go linuxmonkey ^^
[11:51] <linuxmonkey> i know nixternal
[11:51] <nixternal> i was working on some late last night..they get answered pretty quickly in there
[11:51] <linuxmonkey> not my first time using mailing list
[11:51] <nixternal> didn't know if you had it available
[11:51] <linuxmonkey> i got over 3k messages since yesterday
[11:51] <nixternal> indirect bugs mostly
[11:52] <linuxmonkey> ya
[11:53] <nixternal> join the LaptopTestingTeam if you want bug emails...Comcast complained that i was getting to many to quick
[11:53] <nixternal> they called me like 3 hours after i had joined the team and complained..was quite funny actually
[11:53] <mdke> or just all the bugs
[11:53] <nixternal> ya or just all
[11:53] <nixternal> heck no
[11:54] <nixternal> like i told somebody last night..it is like i have some sick fetish..i enjoy reading about other peoples issues ;)
[11:54] <LaserJock> ewww, that is sick
[11:54] <nixternal> lol
[11:54] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:55] <mdke> it's so long, now I dunno if I can be bothered to post it
[11:55] <LaserJock> awesome
[11:55] <Burgwork> mdke, rewrite it to be smaller. Concise is good
[11:55] <nixternal> isn't that the only type of e.documentation?
[11:55] <nixternal> ;)
[11:55] <linuxmonkey> lol
[11:58] <LaserJock> mdke: do it! do it!
[11:58] <LaserJock> peer pressure should work
[11:58] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[11:59] <pygi> LaserJock, hehe :)
[11:59] <mdke> it's more long than inciteful
[11:59] <mdke> lemme see if I can tidy it up
[11:59] <LaserJock> I'd love to bookmark it if you tidy it up
[11:59] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:00] <LaserJock> holy cow!!!
[12:01] <LaserJock> my karma went from ~5000 to ~14000 just because I did one spec
[12:01] <linuxmonkey> since when are cows holy
[12:01] <linuxmonkey> lmao
[12:01] <mdke> yeah, specs are mental karma magnets
[12:01] <mdke> cheeky old sabdfl
[12:02] <linuxmonkey> lol
[12:02] <LaserJock> well, uploading packages does nothing for your karma I can tell you taht
[12:02] <LaserJock> *that
[12:03] <nixternal> mine has been at 102 for months...but i always thought karma was bad...well at least it is for me...i never have good karma ;)
[12:04] <nixternal> you made me look at it for the 2nd time since i created my account..thanks...otherwise i would have never known...what good is it for anyways?  can i get frequent flyer miles from it ;)


[01:56] <_bjf>
[07:52] <apw> Sarvatt, ok that fixed mesa automatically switched back to 1.4 just fine.  this highlights that unity dash is now using something whcih isn't there in 1.4 because the color is still wrong
[07:55] <apw> Sarvatt, oh dear, and X just dumped
[07:55] <smb> Sounds like joy
[08:01] <apw> Sarvatt, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1233540
[08:17] <apw> Sarvatt, ok confirmed that this is a hard crash caused when chromium opens glx, so navigating to maps.google.com is instantly fatal for the x server
[10:49] <Kaloz> apw: hey. do you want me to do that bug report from the custom kernel with working audio or from the ubuntu kernel?
[10:49] <apw> Kaloz, i suspect apport in its infinite wisdom will not let you from the custom one
[10:50]  * apw adds this to his list of HATES for apple
[10:50] <Kaloz> apw: as it's just a rebuild of 3.11.0-7 it would think it is ;)
[10:50] <apw> just get your shit right poople
[10:50] <apw> Kaloz, don't be money on it not catching you out
[10:50] <apw> s/be/bet/
[10:50] <Kaloz> apw: actually that codec lacked support upstream and the acpi bug could affect other boards as well,as it's not apple specific ;)
[10:50] <apw> Kaloz, i don't care which you file it against for sure
[10:51] <apw> Kaloz, it really is ....
[10:51] <apw> +[CS4208_MBA6] = {
[10:51] <apw> that isn't a generic name that is a MacBookAir specific quirk
[10:51] <apw> bloody apple
[10:51] <Kaloz> apw: that's the second one, which is apple specific, but the other one is simply a blind shot for cs4208
[10:52] <Kaloz> and anyways, as I've told before, this was the only haswell based notebook I could pick up
[10:52] <apw> oh i don't hate you for it, i hate apple
[10:53] <Kaloz> shame on lenovo for being so debianistickly sta^H^H^Houtdated
[10:56] <apw> Kaloz, i am pretty sure a lot of people round here have lenovo's
[11:00] <apw> Kaloz, anyhow let me know the bug number so i can get the right people thinking about it
[11:01] <apw> ppisati, about ?  i am getting log spam on my omap4 with
[11:01] <apw> ppisati, -generic installed:
[11:01] <apw> Oct  1 05:55:31 elloco kernel: [43481.748138] omap_i2c 48070000.i2c: timeout waiting for bus ready
[11:01] <apw> Oct  1 05:55:31 elloco kernel: [43481.748168] twl6040 0-004b: Failed to read IRQ status: -110
[11:03] <apw> seems to be happening since reboot, and i didn't see it on a previous boot
[11:03] <apw> oh this was a warm boot, previos likely cold
[11:03]  * apw wonders if that is his non-working un-used wifi whining
[11:56] <Kaloz> apw: bug #1233623
[12:15] <apw> Kaloz, thanks
[12:20] <Kaloz> apw: nah, thanks for taking the time
[12:34] <apw> sforshee, on your air could you see what code you are using, i am told head -1 /proc/asound/card*/codec*
[12:36] <sforshee> apw: "Cirrus Logic CS4206" and "Intel PantherPoint HDMI" are what I get
[12:36] <apw> sforshee, perfect the top one is the one i want to make sure we arn't screwing up
[12:47] <apw> Kaloz, sforshee, ChickenCutlass, i have applied those macbookair fixes against the latest saucy tip, and built some test kernels
[12:47] <apw> could you test on the kit you have and report back please:
[12:47] <apw> http://people.canonical.com/~apw/lp1233623-saucy/
[12:48] <apw> sforshee, for you i am interested it keeps working ok rather than changes anything
[12:49] <ChickenCutlass> apw, will do
[12:58] <ChickenCutlass> apw, works great.  Headphones also working as expected.
[12:58] <ChickenCutlass> apw, mutes speakers
[13:04] <apw> ChickenCutlass, i assume thats mutes speakers when you want and expect :)
[13:04] <apw> if you could report any testing back in the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1233623 as well thanks
[13:04] <ChickenCutlass> apw, yes, everything (sound wise) working quite nicely
[13:04] <ChickenCutlass> sure
[13:05] <apw> ok good thanks, if it doesn't regress the old ones such as seths then we are good
[13:05] <ChickenCutlass> fantastic
[13:06]  * henrix -> lunch
[13:08] <amitk> apw: how fast can you compile all kernel flavours for a new kernel upload? And how many flavours is this today? (I'm trying to estimate what HW I need to order for CI loops)
[13:08] <caribou> apw: FYI, I added my kernel dump analysis to bug: #1233175
[13:08] <caribou> apw: the mempolicy bug
[13:09] <Kaloz> ChickenCutlass: what doesn't work for you, yet?
[13:09] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, 2 things left
[13:09] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, the camera, no longer a USB ucvvideo device
[13:09] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, and screen brightness on resume
[13:10] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, screen brightness actually works on resume but only 2 levels -- full brightness and off
[13:11] <Kaloz> ChickenCutlass: well, for the camera we're pretty much out of luck ;)
[13:11] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, yeah figured
[13:11] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, oh -- one more thing.  I need to pass noncq for libata at boot
[13:11] <Kaloz> ChickenCutlass: does the audio work fro you on resume? also, I still find ncq errors if give it massive load
[13:11] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, just need to add a quirk
[13:13] <Kaloz> ChickenCutlass: are you booting in legacy or efi mode?
[13:13] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, efi
[13:13] <Kaloz> with efi the ncq errors only show up for me after random time, but boot always succeeds even without noncq
[13:13] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, so you should add to your kernel command line libata.force=noncq
[13:13] <ChickenCutlass> Kaloz, makes things muich better
[13:16] <Kaloz> ChickenCutlass: did, just saying the problem isn't as bad as in legacy mode
[13:17] <ChickenCutlass> ok
[13:18] <apw> amitk, today we make one, and it takes about 20 mins to build on a big ass box, about 1 hour on the buildds
[13:20] <apw> amitk, that of course is x86, and we have to maek one for each x86, arm is a differnet story
[13:32] <sforshee> apw: what all do I need to check? Internal speakers, volume, and internal mic all seem to be fine.
[13:33] <apw> sforshee, yeah "did we break your sound" is what i am trying to acertain
[13:34] <sforshee> apw: definitely not broken
[13:36] <apw> Kaloz, worked for you ok ?
[13:38] <rtg> apw, pushed some MB Air audio patches, etc
[13:39] <apw> rtg, heh ... then i won't push them then, now that seth has tested them for older kit
[13:40] <rtg> apw, hmm, the code looked like it really couldn't regress. did I miss something ?
[13:40] <apw> rtg, i am handling the d-i changes from cjwatson
[13:40] <rtg> apw, ack
[13:40] <apw> rtg, heh no, just treading on each others toes :)
[13:41] <rtg> apw, ok, I'll go find someone elses toes to stomp on
[13:51] <rtg> cking, so, you're thinking CONFIG_NO_HZ_IDLE=y for all arches on saucy ?
[13:51] <cking> rtg indeed
[13:51] <rtg> cking, ack
[13:52] <rtg> cking, I will use my god like commit powers and slam in a config change
[13:52] <cking> rtg, many thanks
[14:16] <cking> no more saucy patches from me until next upload :-)
[14:32] <Kaloz> apw: yup, works :)
[14:33] <Kaloz> apw: just thought I'll skip the "mee too" part
[14:34] <apw> Kaloz, heh always good to have positive testing recorded in the bug
[14:34] <apw> Kaloz, patches are applied for the next upload
[14:35] <petn-randall> Hi, while setting up monitoring checks (specifically check_running_kernels) I noticed that /boot/vmlinuz* have 0600 permissions, while on Debian it's 0644. Is there a rationale behind this? I didn't find any info on this yet.
[14:43] <apw> petn-randall, i have the feeling it was part of making it harder to
[14:44] <apw> get the symbols when running in an exploit, not sure it has a heap of value, but i think it was related to that
[14:44] <apw> kees might remember the exact reasoning
[15:18] <jsalisbury> **
[15:18] <jsalisbury> ** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[15:18] <jsalisbury> **
[16:55] <jsalisbury> ##
[16:55] <jsalisbury> ## Kernel team meeting in 5 minutes
[16:55] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ## Meeting starting now
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:05]  * ppisati -> EOD
[18:11] <Kaloz> apw: yay, thanks
[18:22] <rtg> apw, pushed v3.11.3 rebase
[18:22] <apw> rtg, ack, pushed final hyper-v fix as well
[18:23] <rtg> apw: 'Drivers: hv: balloon: Initialize the transaction ID just before sending' ?
[18:23] <apw> rtg, oh you pushed it off
[18:23] <rtg> damn, I just fetched
[18:23] <apw> rtg, will fix
[18:23] <rtg> wow, that was only about a 30 second window
[18:24] <apw> rtg, eheh yeah, you can tell fromt eh messages that something is lost, getting it back is hard if you don't know who
[18:25] <apw> rtg, pushed
[18:25] <rtg> apw, got it
[18:55] <cheater__> i have downloaded a kernel for ubuntu and now i need the source for it. could someone help me figure this out? the kernel is here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.11.2-saucy/ and there are some patches in there but there is no source. how do i get the source?
[18:57] <cheater__> i am trying to get the logitech t651 bluetooth touchpad drivers to work, and possibly contribute to them later on so that they can be put in the mainline at some point
[18:59] <baordog_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/SourceCode duuuude
[18:59] <apw> cheater__, the patches there are against the commit listed in COMMIT
[18:59] <baordog_> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ also this
[18:59] <apw> cheater__, so in that case you would need to get a linus' upstream tree with the v3.11.2 tag in it
[19:00] <apw> check that out, and apply the patches as listed to get the source we built
[19:00] <cheater__> apw, hmm, ok
[19:00] <cheater__> now i'm confused about this doc for building the kernel module
[19:00] <cheater__> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=166924&p=2
[19:01] <cheater__> this is what i am looking at. basically he checks out linux, then adds his clone as remote, and switches to a branch he got from that.
[19:01] <cheater__> then he builds it like this: make -C /usr/src/linux-`uname -r` M=$PWD/drivers/hid modules -j8 CONFIG_HID_LOGITECH_HIDPP=m CONFIG_HID_LOGITECH_WTP=m
[19:01] <apw> that is pretty arch centric
[19:01] <cheater__> now i'm a bit confused. isn't /usr/src/linux-`uname -r` going to be the kernel source? isn't that exactly the same source as in the git clone?
[19:02] <cheater__> apw, OK. what issues do you see there?
[19:02] <apw> cheater__, no you don't need the whole source typically you use the 'headers' pakcages to build external modules
[19:02] <cheater__> right, i have the headers
[19:03] <cheater__> so are you saying i should just use /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` ?
[19:03] <apw> so /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` is your 'source' for building modules
[19:03] <apw> yep
[19:03] <apw> at least in theory
[19:03] <cheater__> let's try and see
[19:03] <apw> good luck
[19:03] <cheater__> you said the instructions were "arch centric", what other issues did you see?
[19:04] <apw> just that they are arch speciific filenames wise, beyond that not read any further
[19:04]  * apw wanders off to get food
[19:05] <cheater__> ok, gotcha. thanks!
[19:40] <kees> petn-randall, apw: right, it is to discourage automated bot-style attacks that attempt to get kernel addresses from the files on disk.
[19:41] <apw> kees, i was close :)
[19:41] <kees> yup
[20:05] <apw> rtg, hey we seem to have a double ABI bump... didn't you make startnewrelease do an abi bump, then you've added a second
[20:05] <rtg> apw, we definitely did. should be OK though
[20:06] <apw> rtg, yeah doesn't matter, but for next time
[20:06] <rtg> apw, that was just me screwing the pooch
[20:06] <apw> had me scrambling to find -10 :)
[20:07] <rtg> apw, yeah, I added the ABI bumper patch (then promptly forgot)  'cause its gonna be bjf's kernel here pretty soon.
[20:07] <apw> heh yeah
[21:09]  * rtg -> EOD
[21:18] <TonnyNerd> I am using ubuntu 12.04, can anyone tell me if AUFS is being supported on newer releases?
[21:19] <TonnyNerd> I've read the kernel-delta stuffs, but I didn't quite got if it was in or out
[21:32] <cheater_1> hi guys
[21:32] <cheater_1> apw: thanks for your help, i have successfully built the module.
[22:02] <TonnyNerd> I am using ubuntu 12.04, can anyone tell me if AUFS is being supported on newer releases?
[22:29] <cheater_1>
[22:29] <cheater_1> sorry, typo
[22:41] <bjf> TonnyNerd, yes, it's supported
[22:51] <TonnyNerd> bjf: so, it was just in 12.04? Or there are plans to drop it for good in the future?
[22:52] <bjf> TonnyNerd, you asked if it is supported in releases newer than 12.04 and i said yes it is.
[22:55] <TonnyNerd> bjf: What I meant is, I read that it maybe would be dropped in favor of overlayfs, is it still going to happen?
[23:07] <bjf> TonnyNerd, i believe we are using overlayfs but we still include aufs in the kernel
[23:10] <TonnyNerd> bjf: cool. I have this EC2 instance with 12.04, kernel 3.2.0-40, and aufs just doesn't work. Is it a known problem with the kernel/ubuntu version, or did I missed something?
[23:11] <bjf> TonnyNerd, i'm not aware of that issue. you should file a bug.
[23:12] <TonnyNerd> bjf: can you point me to the right bugtrack?
[23:12] <bjf> TonnyNerd, launchpad.net
[23:15] <TonnyNerd> bjf: this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu? Sorry for the dummy questions, I've never filled a bug for launchpad before, want to do it as right as possible
[23:15] <bjf> TonnyNerd, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug
[23:16] <bjf> TonnyNerd, if you can it's actually best to run "ubuntu-bug linux" from your ec2 instance
[23:16] <bjf> TonnyNerd, that will collect additional information. however, i've never tried it from an ec2 instance
[23:17] <TonnyNerd> bjf: I will give it a try, as soon as my computer stops misbehaving (too much chrome tabs)
[23:34] <TonnyNerd> bjf: did it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1233903
[23:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1233903 in linux (Ubuntu) "aufs doesn't work, even with aufs-tools installed" [Undecided,New]
[23:34] <bjf> ack
[23:34] <TonnyNerd> in the meantime, I guess I should try 13.04? I am hesitant because it's not a LTS version
[23:44] <TonnyNerd> I just created a new 13.04 EC2 instance, and aufs still doesn't work. Maybe it's an issue with amazon's amis
[23:45] <TonnyNerd> I am running a apt-get upgrade right now, gonna test again after that
[23:52] <TonnyNerd> bjf: It doesn't work on 13.04 either, and a post on amazon's forums seems to suggest it's a known thing (I should've looked there before), should I close that bug myself? (I am not sure how the process works, sorry)