[17:54] <ChinnoDog> jsuter: Perhaps I will attend the in person meetings then after I have made it to MD. (Not living there yet.)


[00:35] <jisaitua> Hello
[00:36] <jisaitua> I'm looking for some help with udisks and polkit
[00:38] <jisaitua> I have an LTSP installation and I'm using an usb over ip solution to connect usb devices to the server. The problem is that I can't find how to let polkit know that some specific usb disk belongs to a specific user.
[00:39] <jisaitua> I know that polkit>=0.107 has some mechanism to do what I want using some form of javascript rules
[00:40] <jisaitua> but Ubuntu 14.04 has polkit 0.105 only
[00:41] <jisaitua> ...so if someone can help me I would really appreciate it


[17:17] <RikMills> vlc snap owrks :P
[17:17] <RikMills> *works
[17:18] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Not sure if you saw it or not, but it looks like Debian already fixed VLC upstream.
[17:19] <RikMills> arraybolt3[m]: where?
[17:19]  * arraybolt3[m] pulls up bug report
[17:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: ^
[17:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Shoot, no, it's fixed upstream in 3.0.18-rc2.
[17:21] <arraybolt3[m]> There aren't tarballs yet, so it's not yet fixed after all.
[17:21] <arraybolt3[m]> From the email, "There are no tarballs yet. Whenever they (or the 3.0.18 release) becomes available, I'll upload new version."
[17:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Debian bug #1021032
[17:21] <arraybolt3[m]> (Hey, ubot worked!)
[17:22] <RikMills> yeah, I would like to know what the upstream commits of MR are with the fix
[17:22] <RikMills> I tried vlcs daily build PPA, and it was still broken
[17:23] <arraybolt3[m]> I might have time to try a Master build, and if that works a bisect shouldn't be too difficult.
[17:32] <RikMills> arraybolt3[m]: the vlc master ppa build did not work
[17:33] <arraybolt3[m]> :(
[17:33] <RikMills> https://launchpad.net/~videolan/+archive/ubuntu/master-daily
[17:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, it might still be worth a shot to build from source and use the dreaded sudo make install in a VM to see what happens. I mean, at least one guy seems to have it working.
[17:44] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'm in the middle of building a ton of KDE stuff again, so my system's kinda tied up, but that shouldn't last a whole lot longer, hopefully.)
[17:51]  * RikMills throws 3.0.18-RC2 tag tarball at a PPA
[17:53] <arraybolt3> Anything in particular that I still need to do with Lubuntu artwork packaging, or are we just waiting now?
[17:55] <RikMills> tar made from the gitlab tag is not good, so that didn't work. oh well, worth a go
[21:26]  * RikMills wonders if the debian guy is verbalising from his posterior
[21:35] <RikMills> hmm. the vlc release tarballs seem to be rolled from the git repo after the ./bootstrap script has been run. maybe that is why my test build of the rc2 tag as a deb in a ppa crashed and burned
[22:00] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Yes, they seem to generate their tarballs after grabbing external deps.
[22:00] <Eickmeyer> Similar to KDE in that way.
[22:05] <RikMills> well, KDE are starting to copy translations/docs from svn to git regularly, so KDE snapshots might be easier soon
[22:06] <RikMills> i.e. the git repo will more properly reflect the final tarball contents


[06:42] <dholbach> good morning
[06:49] <iulian> Hi there dholbach.
[06:49] <dholbach> hey hey iulian
[06:49] <iulian> How's it going?
[06:51] <dholbach> good good - how about yourself?
[06:52] <iulian> Not too bad, thanks. Having my cup of tea and catching up with Ubuntu devel.
[06:53] <iulian> Reading emails can sometimes be utterly boring.
[06:53] <dholbach> taking the dog for a walk - brb
[16:31] <Zhenech> xnox, uhm, it would have been more precise to tell you here about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smc/+bug/947358
[16:31] <Zhenech> -.-
[16:41] <xnox> Zhenech: cause I touched it last, fair enough.
[16:41] <Zhenech> :)
[16:42] <Zhenech> should be easy to fix actually
[16:43] <Zhenech> also you are the pearson I knew I would reach on irc
[16:43] <Zhenech> :P
[16:56] <xnox> Zhenech: since now you are TIL https://launchpad.net/~evgeni/+synchronised-packages please consider preparing SRU for precise/quantal/raring to fix this bug there :P
[18:26] <Zhenech> xnox, fuuuuuuuu ;) (will bug debfx at work tpomorrow…)


  Happy Friday, and happy System Administrator Appreciation Day! 😃
[09:12] <SuperMatt> oh that's today?
[09:12] <SuperMatt> No one has praised me at all :(
[09:13] <JamesTait> Me neither.
[09:13] <JamesTait> But I bet if I unplug the internet, they'll all come running.
[09:13] <SuperMatt> do it
[09:14] <JamesTait> +++ CARRIER LOST
[09:16] <brobostigon> anyone running aorund like a headless chicken yt?
[09:17]  * popey glares at cyanogenmod
[09:39] <knightwise> oh my https://youtu.be/sg0D1PpgCXs
[09:46] <brobostigon> meep :)
[09:46] <brobostigon> sorry.
[09:55] <MooDoo> :)
[11:27]  * popey pokes waggott14 with a stick
[11:28] <SuperMatt> is that a new type of pokemon?
[13:22] <daftykins> temp ban perhaps for sanity?
[13:24] <DJones> Right
[13:26] <DJones> Been settled for the last 10 minutes, if it keeps on, I'll ban forward to #fixyourconnection, daftykins Give me a shout if you see it continuing
[13:27] <daftykins> DJones: will do, though i'll likely be out for the afternoon shortly :)
[13:28] <popey> well, there's your answer DJones ^
[13:28] <DJones> Cheers, I;m going walking the dog in the woods in the next few minutes
[13:29] <DJones> Hopfully that should sort it
[13:30] <daftykins> hehe, that's the default message isn't it? XD
[13:30] <DJones> Fingers crossed, dog walking time, if they ask anywhere, as long as the connection is stable, please remove the ban
[13:31] <DJones> Yep it is
[13:31] <DJones> I have a dog staring at me, so not much time to change the mesage
[13:32] <daftykins> *nod* was just thinking the guy might get grumpy
[13:36] <DJones> Yeah, sent them a pm to explain what happened
[14:21] <diddledan> https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/26/a-hack-by-any-other-name/
[14:34]  * knightwise soooo wants to go home
[14:49] <diddledan> netplan (or nplan as the package is gonna be called) sounds interesting
[14:50] <popey> wossat?
[14:51] <diddledan> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-y-network-yaml
[14:52] <diddledan> it was announced on ubuntu-devel earlier : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-July/039464.html
[14:53]  * DJones debates whether to try antine as a twitter client, but had doubts since it isn't even in a ppa, github download
[14:53] <DJones> anatine
[14:54] <popey> yeah, i looked at making a snap of it
[14:55] <DJones> Certainly looks interesting, Ubuntu is missing a decent twitter app at the moment since polly became unsupported
[14:55] <diddledan> DJones: I've been using corebird
[14:55] <DJones> Best I've found since then is corebird, but that doesn't auto update
[14:56] <DJones> diddledan: Have you found anyway to get it to auto update for new messages, without having to click the home button?
[14:57] <diddledan> I've not had any problem with it updating - it doesn't scroll to top by default though unless you go into the settings and toggle the autoscroll option
[14:58] <DJones> Hmmh, I'll look for that
[14:59] <DJones> Can't even find any options for setting
[15:02] <popey> i use tweetdeck in a browser window on its own
[15:02] <popey> like a webapp
[15:04] <diddledan> what can I buy from ebay for at least £30?
[15:04] <diddledan> (nectar are offering 10x points if I make a purchase before sunday)
[15:04] <popey> you could buy this for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-DIGITAL-Model-VT100-AA-COMES-WITH-SELAMAR-GRAPHIC-CARDS-POWERS-ON-/181667429713
[15:05] <diddledan> lol
[15:06] <popey> out of your price range?
[15:06] <popey> okay, how about this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Various-Artists-Lost-In-Transmission-Chichester-Hospital-Radio-CD-2015-New-/361621986724
[15:22] <daftykins> just had to dodge a quadbike walking down my *pedestrian only* lane home, wat
[15:32] <daftykins> guy was taking the lazy route to his insurer that's 2 doors up from me...
[15:56] <diddledan> sorted an RMA for my RAMs
[15:56] <diddledan> being picked-up on mudnay
[15:57] <diddledan> I guess I'll have to be without beast for a couple days until I get replacement modules :-(
[15:58] <daftykins> did you pin it down to one module in the end?
[15:58] <daftykins> i just posted the 7 year old stuff to the Netherlands just now :)
[15:58] <diddledan> \o/
[15:58] <daftykins> £2.84!
[15:58] <diddledan> they didn't quibble at all over the return. I guess I described it well-enough that it was obvious there's one wonky module
[15:59] <daftykins> what brand is it?
[15:59] <diddledan> I think they probably argue less when you ask for a direct replacement, too
[15:59] <diddledan> crucial ballistix
[15:59] <daftykins> ah i do like crucial stuff, they even give freepost labels eh?
[15:59] <diddledan> it's going back to ebuyer 'cos that's where I bought it from
[15:59] <daftykins> oic
[16:00] <diddledan> they're organising the shipping collection
[16:02] <daftykins> ah they can't do that over here because couriers :(
[16:02] <diddledan> it's gonna be yodel >.<
[16:02] <daftykins> often folks would promise, but nobody would come ;) i think they get stuck at that wet bit south of Southampton...
[16:02] <daftykins> or south of Land's End
[16:20] <diddledan> ssshh, don't tell anyone but I've been doing c# again: https://github.com/DEVSENSE/Phalanger/pull/59
[16:53] <daftykins> they call 'im the diddler... but occasionally the fixer, too...
[16:56]  * popey stabs cm13
[16:56] <daftykins> :o
[16:56] <daftykins> what'd it do? :P
[16:56] <popey> install cm13, add sd card to "internal storage" which encrypts the sd card
[16:56] <popey> which is all fine
[16:57] <popey> try and update cm13, it fails because it saves the zip then reboots to recovery, which can't see the encrypted sd card
[16:58] <daftykins> oof.
[16:58] <daftykins> though i think they refer to the device / being a good spot for that very reason
[16:59] <popey> sadly their update tool doesnt save there
[17:02] <daftykins> looks like folks are using workarounds by manually moving it, which isn't ideal!
[17:03] <popey> indeed
[17:03] <popey> and I can't even make the directory i need to move it to
[17:03] <popey> looks like i need some root shennanigans
[17:03] <popey> such a mess
[17:03] <daftykins> does the SD card become *actual* /sdcard, or a folder beneath that?
[17:04] <daftykins> https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/3yrsuk/updating_cm_with_sd_as_internal_storage/
[17:04] <daftykins> https://forum.cyanogenmod.org/topic/120600-cannot-update-cm-13-after-mounting-sd-card-as-internal-storage/
[17:04] <daftykins> dates aren't great but those folk speak of ways and means
[17:04] <popey> yeah, i can't make /data/foo
[17:04] <popey> need to become root somehow
[17:04]  * popey fiddles
[17:05] <daftykins> sorry, i didn't read in enough detail :(
[17:05] <diddledan> popey: if only someone would put normal linux on one
[17:05] <diddledan> s/one/a phone/
[17:06]  * popey shakes fist at cloud
[17:06] <daftykins> what are the benefits to SD card integration?
[17:06] <diddledan> moar storage
[17:06] <daftykins> nah but making it part of the internal and encrypting it, why those?
[17:06] <diddledan> android doesn't like putting apps on the sd
[17:06] <daftykins> yeah it's never a good move
[17:07] <popey> the benefit is more space
[17:07] <popey> basically
[17:07] <diddledan> so to fix that bug they join the two togetehr
[17:07] <popey> in older versions you can move apps to the sd card
[17:07] <daftykins> is it because it's a low capacity device, like an 8GB?
[17:07] <popey> but when you update in play store, they move back
[17:07] <popey> 16GB
[17:07] <daftykins> mm i came up against lots of apps that refused last time i played with that
[17:08] <popey> yeah, I'd rather not have to keep moving them
[17:08] <popey> hence switching to cm13 so I can just say "have at it" and give it the entire 64GB SD card
[17:08] <popey> which works fine, no slowdown
[17:08] <popey> just OTA is busted
[17:08] <daftykins> *nod*
[17:08] <popey> so I think what I'll do is manually get the zip from the website and push it over adb
[17:08] <daftykins> you must install a lot of stuff!
[17:08] <popey> when in recovery
[17:08] <popey> not really
[17:09] <popey> a few chunky games
[17:09] <popey> i take a fair few photos and videos with it
[17:09] <daftykins> ah did they not go onto the SD by default, before it was integrated?
[17:10] <popey> you can choose to put them on sd, sure
[17:10]  * diddledan blows chunks
[17:10] <popey> but the thing still got full
[17:10] <diddledan> what does that phrase mean "blow chunks"?
[17:10] <daftykins> wat
[17:10] <daftykins> something a product does because it's inferior, in my experience
[17:10] <popey> hence why I moved stuff to sd card
[17:10] <popey> diddledan: puke
[17:11] <diddledan> aah
[17:11] <daftykins> (inferior due to bad design / what have you)
[17:11] <popey> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[17:12] <daftykins> my friends wife brought me her HTC One M8 today that wasn't charging or doing anything for her over in England, they tried a few chargers... took it to a local shop and got told there was nothing to be done (it's a sealed battery type model)
[17:12] <daftykins> anyway hands it to me, i pop it on a 2A tablet charger i have here, light came on - then a couple of minutes passed and the very low battery sign came up - charged all fine XD
[17:12] <daftykins> she now thinks i have a special touch
[17:13] <daftykins> i think it just sensed the room has been where many a thing gets cracked open with no mercy
[17:14] <popey> we used to get a lot of nexus 4's in that state when first developing ubuntu touch on it
[17:14] <popey> the standard advice was "plug it into a decent charger and leave it alone for hours"
[17:14] <popey> eventually they'd all wake up
[17:14] <diddledan> I remember that issue hitting the mailing list often
[17:14] <daftykins> ah yeah, cheaply sold?
[17:14] <popey> yeah
[17:14] <popey> no, just drained below zero
[17:14] <popey> and we had no alert or system for shutting down
[17:14] <daftykins> i mean for you to get them, though
[17:15] <popey> so it would drain to nothing
[17:15] <diddledan> I think the galaxy nexus had the same problem
[17:15] <popey> oh, no, we bought them new
[17:15] <daftykins> oic
[17:15] <popey> back when nexus 4 was the thing
[17:16] <diddledan> 3-generations ago
[17:16] <popey> time flies like a brick doesn't
[17:16] <diddledan> 4 when the next ones drop in a month or so
[17:16] <daftykins> still got mine here, been abandoned by Google but still holds 2G service in my granite house better than my Nexus 5 does :|
[17:17] <daftykins> just don't fancy using it anymore since it's insecure really
[17:17] <popey> whooo, installed a terminal and got root
[17:17] <daftykins> :)
[17:19] <diddledan> flying brick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LruyfJJT7qY
[17:19] <diddledan> saw that movie in the cinema
[17:20] <diddledan> loved it
[17:20] <diddledan> popey: is there a gif of "got root"?
[17:20] <diddledan> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54088016.jpg
[17:22] <daftykins> diddledan: nah this is a flying brick - (volume check) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD4MaFHsK_w
[17:23] <popey> http://i.imgur.com/yLNLvz6.png \o/
[17:24] <diddledan> daftykins: was it really necessary for that uploader to loop the thing for 5 and a half minutes?!
[17:24] <daftykins> he tells me he just combined the two and then got all those views which he's not allowed to monetise :( so i'd go with... yes
[17:25] <diddledan> two?
[17:25] <diddledan> there's only one video there. looped. many many many times.
[17:26] <daftykins> yes, video with audio
[17:26] <daftykins> not sure which portion he means belongs to someone, maybe both!
[17:29] <daftykins> hehe my PhD Physics mate just got the job after his interview in Tokyo, he messaged me "spec me a beast (PC), i've got a job!"
[17:37] <diddledan> :-p
[17:37] <diddledan> beast, eh
[17:37] <daftykins> mmm
[17:38] <daftykins> guy always lives on the bread line so i wish he'd at least get one pay packet before splurging XD
[17:42] <popey> \o/ updateificated
[17:42] <popey> right, time for beer
[17:42] <popey> o/
[17:42] <daftykins> enjoy o/
[17:42] <diddledan> did you pontificate?
[17:58] <daftykins> yay by chance tonnes of friends that moved away are on the island this weekend \o/
[18:05] <daftykins> hmm that dud RAM was from that blown cap motherboard, perhaps it's not as dead as i thought...
[18:05] <zmoylan-pi> zombies, every one panic!! \o/
[18:06]  * daftykins keeps a weapon handy, just in case
[18:08] <diddledan> daftykins: the ram that you've got an RMA for?
[18:08] <diddledan> or different one?
[18:11] <daftykins> RAM i posted off today came from the mobo with blown caps, yep
[18:12] <daftykins> it would stop POST after a power cut, weirdly... yet could be made to work and kicked into life
[18:13] <zmoylan-pi> intermittent computers are never to be trusted
[18:29] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/r1ouC
[18:30] <daftykins> well yes sir, that is a given, but when they're only intermittent due to previously undiagnosed faults - they can rise again!
[18:34] <zmoylan-pi> oh, i have used a purloined virus infected then cleaned obsolete junker as an email server for 4 years but it was beside my desk so i was on hand in the event it was ever to fail...
[18:34] <zmoylan-pi> or a computer that only i could make boot as a novell file server for about the same amount of time.
[18:37] <daftykins> :>
[18:37] <zmoylan-pi> but as it was a novell server it only needed restarting after power cuts so once a year at most
[18:37] <daftykins> i had actually discounted a different board with no cap issues with that wonky RAM in, so that one might be alright again, though it didn't POST with DDR3 in... only DDR2.
[18:37] <daftykins> (it has both, it's a rare board)
[18:41] <daftykins> well i'll be, blown cap board POSTs first time with different RAM
[18:58] <daftykins> that 6 minute memtest!
[20:30] <diddledan> apparently someone managed to craft an exploit for the pornhub website
[20:32] <diddledan> obviously I'm not going to mention a clickable link for said site. because, you know.. SFW
[20:33] <daftykins> and of course you don't know the TLD, never been
[20:34] <diddledan> well that's true, too
[21:19]  * zmoylan-pi almost wishes i was still working tech support to see who's pc is dragged in infected from this vulnerability...
[21:20] <diddledan> lol
[21:21] <diddledan> I get new internets on mudnay
[21:22] <diddledan> what's the betting openreach screw it up?
[21:22] <zmoylan-pi> been delivered by a man in a bucket at 6am every morning...
[21:34] <daftykins> diddledan: what's the change?
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> a bigger bucket...
[21:35] <diddledan> moving to aaisp
[21:36] <daftykins> ooh
[21:37] <daftykins> weird caps
[22:15] <diddledan> gotta love these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpztC6GHqw
[22:18] <daftykins> toilet... in a letterbox... THAT WAS MY HOUSE!
[22:19] <daftykins> oh it's a Blue Peter parody!
[22:19]  * daftykins wakes up
[22:19] <diddledan> lol
[22:19] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mVvRluNJpM
[22:20] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtF5L9bKfO8
[22:20] <diddledan> and of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Y-0C0p_9s
[22:54] <daftykins> i now know, that this was wrong
[23:27] <danielthebague>  Hi looking to do an upgarde to 16.04.1 LTS and the installer states i have low disk space. i ran apt-get clean, apt-get autoclean, apt-get autoremove and also used ubuntu tweak tool to remove old kernels. also installed and ran bleachbit (as root) to clear old log files, emptied trash too and still i have a low disk space warning. is there a work around can i remove anything else or would a backup and new insta
[23:27] <danielthebague> llation be more appropriate in my circumstances?
[23:30] <daftykins> show me "dpkg -l | grep linux- | nc termbin.com 9999"
[23:32] <daftykins> also "df -i | nc termbin.com 9999"
[23:37] <daftykins> can only imagine that guy has me on ignore
[23:38] <zmoylan-pi> or is new to irc...
[23:38] <daftykins> oh here we go, PM reply now
[23:38] <diddledan> ignore it
[23:38] <daftykins> hmm?
[23:38] <diddledan> the pm
[23:38] <daftykins> why
[23:38] <diddledan> because it's rude to pm people without asking
[23:39] <zmoylan-pi> ^this
[23:39] <daftykins> when you're offering them help? don't be ridiculous
[23:39] <daftykins> anyway, person said they were going to just clean install - quitters!
[23:40] <daftykins> honestly i'm blown away you'd even say that
[23:41] <zmoylan-pi> i discourage pming as most of the time it is been done by people who are doing it wrong or are trolling
[23:42] <diddledan> people who have a prior relationship are ok to pm, but going into a chatroom you've never been to before and pming the first person to reply is bad netiquette
[23:43] <zmoylan-pi> and encouraging bad manners doesn't help the community when more people are /rude/
[23:43] <daftykins> no no, when the guy left the channel, i PM'd *them* because it was as though the advice was missed
[23:44] <zmoylan-pi> ah, fair enough
[23:44] <daftykins> yeah if they PM i bite them on the nose... hard...
[23:44] <diddledan> oic. I figured he came here, asked for help, saw you reply, left the room and pm'd you randomly
[23:45] <daftykins> mmm makes sense to me now!
[23:45] <diddledan> mmm, cookies
[23:45] <daftykins> mmmmm
[23:45] <diddledan> not muh cookies!
[23:45] <daftykins> mmk i gave this other motherboard another try but nope, it's still properly unreliable
[23:46] <zmoylan-pi> just i've seen people wander into irc rooms and then pm anyone who looks active
[23:46] <diddledan> http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/M'Fashnik_Demon
[23:46] <daftykins> so the popped cap one is the best so far, it could probably live again if they were replaced
[23:46] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: me too
[23:46] <daftykins> yeah, my mistake - i think i was a bit too in my own head thinking "i know i PM'd first..." when i said he replied
[23:47] <zmoylan-pi> i saw an interesting blog entry a while back of an engineer sick of wifi ap dying every year or so who removed all the capacitors on a new one and replaced them with good quality ones and the device was going years later
[23:47]  * diddledan pets daftykins
[23:47]  * zmoylan-pi pushes the chocolate hobnobs daftykins way
[23:47]  * daftykins is petted
[23:47] <daftykins> d'aww thanks guys!
[23:47] <diddledan> mmm nobnobs!
[23:48] <daftykins> those are totally a fave of mine
[23:48] <diddledan> ditto
[23:53] <zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with hobnobs. lowest common denominator of a good biccie
[23:54]  * daftykins mentally labels this mobo 'definitely dead'
[23:55] <zmoylan-pi> i used postage labels and wrote on them with a sharpie to mark hardware.  stick it to underside. and date it
[23:57] <daftykins> that sounds good
[23:57] <daftykins> i definitely always write on the HDDs labels for bad sector ones
[23:57] <diddledan> even easier is to break the board in-two
[23:58] <diddledan> broken board = broken board
[23:58] <daftykins> too much fallout for my little 4 pawed lass to deal with :)
[23:58] <diddledan> makes it obvious then
[23:58] <daftykins> and future dafty to clean up!
[23:58] <diddledan> aww, she koot
[23:58] <zmoylan-pi> and if you want the postage label to be easily removeable, stick it to your sleeve 2-3 times as that adds fluff/lint to make it less sticky
[23:59] <daftykins> still, i've got three working
[23:59] <daftykins> that's pretty ace


[00:07] <nxvl> what is this distro spint about? i have read it in several places
[00:07] <nxvl> is it the developers sprint?
[00:07] <nxvl> jcastro: ?
[00:20] <kostmo> Is anyone available to review my last release of pyrocket?  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pyrocket
[02:02] <NCommander> trying to build qemu with --static == painful
[02:13] <NCommander> HPPA really has a painfully slow autobuilder
[02:30] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:09] <Drk_Guy> Hi guys!
[03:10] <Drk_Guy> As far as i know, Launchpad stored my public key, where is it stored, so i can give my users my key
[03:19] <NCommander> ScottK, RAOF ping?
[03:21] <emgent> moin NCommander
[03:21] <NCommander> morning emgent
[03:21] <NCommander> which makes me question, are you a MOTU?
[03:21] <NCommander> (or better)
[03:22] <emgent> NCommander: yeah I'm MOTU
[03:24] <NCommander> care to sponsor a project?
[03:25] <emgent> NCommander: what project?
[03:37] <NCommander> Er, not a project, package
[03:37] <NCommander> emgent, a FTBFS fix :-)
[03:40] <emgent> yes I can sponsor
[03:40] <emgent> NCommander: Bugs number ?
[03:40] <NCommander> adding now
[03:40]  * NCommander disables edge
[03:40] <NCommander> Its being buggy for me
[03:42] <emgent> NCommander: if you need sponsor, feel free to subscribe u-u-s and me too.
[03:43] <NCommander> Yeah, I ping IRC though just to prevent spamming u-u-s unnecessary
[03:44] <NCommander> emgent, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liblunar/+bug/248579
[03:44] <NCommander> For some reason, the debdiff got attached twice O_O;
[03:44] <emgent> i will take a look
[03:45] <NCommander> thank you
[03:45] <emgent> np :)
[03:46] <NCommander> Any idea how to get scratchbox to work with a non-ARM target?
[03:46] <emgent> just time for build and test it.
[03:47]  * NCommander looks forward to that eventual day in the distant future that he'll have MOTU
[03:48] <emgent> :)
[03:49] <NCommander> I'm debating giving up userland emulation and simply install qemu in system emulation
[03:49] <NCommander> er, sparc-ubuntu
[03:50] <bddebian> The versioning scheme is supposed to stick for main packages too isn't it?
[03:52] <ScottK> bddebian: Versioning is no different main/universe.
[03:52] <NCommander> bddebian, hola
[03:54] <bddebian> Hi NCommander, ScottK
[03:55] <bddebian> ScottK: Thanks.  Then explain gdebi to me :-(
[03:55] <emgent> hi ScottK bddebian
[03:55] <bddebian> I realize it's native but now I'm at a loss what to do in Debian :-(
[03:55] <ScottK> bddebian: My usual interactions with gdebi start with apt-get remove.
[03:55] <NCommander> bddebian, I'm fixing FTBFSs by the bucket load
[03:56] <bddebian> Heya emgent, congratulations1 :)
[03:56] <bddebian> NCommander: Great
[03:56] <bddebian> s/1/!/
[03:56] <emgent> bddebian: lol thanks
[03:56] <bddebian> ScottK: Aye :)
[03:56] <emgent> hhahaha
[03:57]  * NCommander installs Sparc Ubuntu
[03:58] <NCommander> emgent, how goes it
[03:58] <ScottK> bddebian: Is the issue that gdebi is Ubuntu unique, but doesn't have an ubuntu revision?
[03:59] <emgent> NCommander: processing..
[03:59] <bddebian> ScottK: Well sort of.  Amaya asked me to take a look at it but if I update Debian it would be 0.3.6 ideally which Ubuntu couldn't sync obviously.
[03:59] <bddebian> If I take from ubuntu (which would make sense) I would have to go to 0.3.11+
[03:59] <ScottK> Why can't it be 0.3.12?
[04:00] <bddebian> That might be the answer it just doesn't seem right to jump so many versions in 1 upload for a "native" package but I suppose that is the answer
[04:01] <soren> Why not 0.3.11debian1?
[04:02] <soren> Or... Will there actually be a delta?
[04:02] <bddebian> I don't know where the fsck a debian1 version ever even came from
[04:03] <NCommander> bddebian, your moving nicely along the DD process
[04:03] <bddebian> I am?
[04:03] <ScottK> Debian doesn't typically have a good sense of humor about being downstream from Ubuntu.
[04:03] <soren> bddebian: First answer me this: Is there going to be a delta?
[04:03] <NCommander> What's sad is our packages get lintian fixes because out MOTUs are willing to work on it
[04:03] <bddebian> A delta from whom?
[04:03] <ScottK> intrepid/unstable at the very least.
[04:03] <soren> bddebian: Ubuntu.
[04:04] <bddebian> Probably considering there are so many damn bugs on the BTS
[04:04] <NCommander> w00t, I got past the frontdesk check
[04:04] <bddebian> I know of at least 3 language patches
[04:04] <bddebian> NCommander: Congrats
[04:05] <NCommander> m68k/hurd porter - ok
[04:05] <bddebian> ScottK: Debian has little sense of humor period ;-P
[04:05] <soren> bddebian: Maybe I'm not entirely clear on the story involved here. Is Ubuntu effectively the upstream?
[04:05] <NCommander> I've got to be the first person to ever get in as a hurd porter :-)
[04:05] <bddebian> soren: Not from my perception but I cannot honestly answer that
[04:05] <bddebian> If they are then it makes more sense
[04:06] <bddebian> Stupid ass native packages
[04:06] <soren> bddebian: Hm... Well, then I'm not sure at all.
[04:06] <soren> bddebian: A few things come into play:
[04:06] <soren> bddebian: First: Is there going to be a delta? If not, just upload the package as-is.
[04:07] <soren> bddebian: If yes, and if Ubuntu is effectively the upstream, I don't see what's wrong with a 0.3.11debian1 version number.
[04:07] <soren> bddebian: regardless of presence/absence of sense of humour.
[04:08] <soren> Or a 0.3.11-1, I guess.
[04:08] <bddebian> To me it has nothing to do with sense of humor, it just isn't a versioning I have ever seen Debian use up until this package
[04:08] <soren> I'm rather sure I've seen it before.
[04:08] <bddebian> I'm not even sure it's policy compliant
[04:08]  * soren looks
[04:09]  * NCommander thinks emgent needs a new PC ...
[04:10] <emgent> ?
[04:10] <NCommander> Is your computer still building liblunar?
[04:10] <emgent> my flybook v5 rocks!
[04:10] <emgent>  NCommander nope, check your mail :)
[04:10] <bddebian> Hmm, it looks as though Ubuntu is "upstream" for gdebi
[04:10] <NCommander> I don't need instructions to know how to rock!
[04:11] <emgent> NCommander: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds
[04:11] <NCommander> and away it goes
[04:11] <NCommander> It successfully built on a bunch of archs, so I got to say thats progress
[04:12] <emgent> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liblunar/1.0.0-1ubuntu1/
[04:12] <NCommander> and with that, I just dropped the amd64 ftbfs count under 100 ;-)
[04:12] <bddebian> And mvo is a DD and isn't lool a DD too?
[04:12] <soren> bddebian: Yes, they are.
[04:12] <bddebian> WTF
[04:13] <NCommander> What's the WTF?
[04:13] <soren> bddebian: The current version of gdebi in Debian has such a version number...
[04:13] <soren> In fact, there are plenty of examples of packages that have "debian" in their version number.
[04:14] <soren> 273 of them.
[04:14] <bddebian> soren: I'm aware of that, as I said its the first I have seen.  Not that, that means anything
[04:14] <bddebian> native packages are suppose to have versions only not even a revision but whatever
[04:14] <soren> bddebian: Oh, I thought my suggesting it was the first you've seen.
[04:15] <bddebian> :)
[04:15] <NCommander> emgent, thanks
[04:16] <NCommander> emgent, any comments on my work with my FTBFS fixes?
[04:16] <emgent> NCommander: Thanks for your work!
[04:36] <NCommander> emgent, your not a core dev, are you?
[04:37] <emgent> NCommander: I'm MOTU.
[04:37] <emgent> launchpad.net/~motu
[04:37] <emgent> launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev
[04:38] <NCommander> ScottK, ping
[04:38] <ScottK> Pong.
[04:39] <NCommander> ScottK, care to sponsor a FTBFS fix for epiphany browser?
[04:40] <ScottK> NCommander: Sorry, no.  Am kind of caught up in some stuff.
[04:40] <ScottK> NCommander: Subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
[04:40] <ScottK> They usually get to it pretty quickly.
[04:40] <NCommander> yeah
[04:50] <NCommander> ScottK, ouch, that flash backport is evil
[04:52] <ScottK> Yeah.  That's the first backport I approved that was a major disaster.
[04:59] <NCommander> what's going to happen with it?
[05:00] <ScottK> Probably nothing until the final Flash 10 release and then nothing until there's a bunch more testing.
[05:00] <NCommander> Meh, I managed to get gnash to work on amd64 with a lot of effort
[05:00] <NCommander> but at least I don't have the cosnatn issues you see with the non-free fun
[05:01] <ScottK> I don't actually use either much at all.
[05:01] <ScottK> My laptop I got last year had remained blissfully Flash free until I had to test stuff during the disaster recovery.
[05:04] <NCommander> I just have it for youtube
[05:04] <NCommander> and my friend just gave me sudo access on his sparc box, and permission to install an ubuntu chroot so, good-bye sparc FTBFS ;-)
[05:04] <ScottK> Cool.
[05:05] <NCommander> speaking of solved FTBFS
[05:06] <NCommander> epiphany-browser now compiles
[05:08] <solarion> still no love from netflix.  :(
[05:08] <NCommander> FTBFS?
[05:08] <NCommander> er ...
[05:08] <NCommander> wait
[05:08] <NCommander> ....
[05:08] <NCommander> It's bad when I think netflix is a package
[05:08] <solarion> :)
[05:08] <solarion> it's more of a tool
[05:09] <solarion> sadly, mostly in the metaphorical sense
[05:10] <NCommander> and now thats the sound of debootstrap creating an ubuntu sparc chroot :-)
[05:10] <kostmo> what is the significance of prepending lines of the changelog with '*' vs. '-' ?
[05:14] <ScottK> Major and minor bullet points.
[05:14] <ScottK> debian/changelog is meant to be machine parsable, so you need to follow the format closely.
[05:18] <solarion> could do * ** *** **** etc.
[05:18] <solarion> then you could use emacs outline mode.
[05:19] <ion_> And gain a great amount of ugly for free.
[05:26] <kostmo> Are there more details about the official Ubuntu changelog format published somewhere than the ones documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#head-c727185a09bc917152055fddb0b69a2f4d812e60 ?  I'd be happy to add this info about bullets and the format for closing Launchpad bugs to the wiki page otherwise
[05:36] <ScottK> That's the right place for Ubuntu.  It's actually documented in Debian Policy, which we generall follow.
[05:53] <J-_> Any packagers around?
[05:55] <J-_> I'd like to suggest something to be packaged. http://nick125.com/projects/pymtp
[06:29] <warp10> Hi all!
[06:29] <nxvl> hi
[06:29] <nxvl> :D
[06:31] <warp10> hi nxvl :)
[06:37] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, arent u tired :P?
[06:37] <nxvl> yes i am
[06:37] <nxvl> work -> university -> girlfriend -> ubuntu
[06:37] <nxvl> :D
[06:37] <nxvl> all the days of my life
[06:39] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, haha cool, i support my thesis two days from now and i have to make these videos to show how it works, cuz the proyector won't work the way i need with my Ubuntu T.T...
[08:27] <Iulian> Good morning.
[08:29] <jpds> morning
[08:30] <Iulian> Hello Jonathan!
[08:31] <jpds> :)
[09:08] <Iulian> apachelogger: ping
[09:24] <apachelogger> Iulian: pong
[09:28] <Iulian> apachelogger: Hi, I was wondering if you're still working on bug #163040. I'd like to package paperbox (bug #225633) and it seems that it needs gtkmm-utils which is not in the archive.
[09:28] <apachelogger> Iulian: I am quite busy these days
[09:29] <apachelogger> Iulian: I think gtkmm-utils is on revu, so you can continue on that
[09:30] <Iulian> apachelogger: Yes, it's on revu. If you don't have time to take care of it I will have a look at gtkmm-utils.
[09:31] <apachelogger> Iulian: go ahead, if you need a revu, poke me ;-)
[09:32] <Iulian> apachelogger: Ok, sure. Thanks.
[09:38] <huats> morning all
[10:15] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[10:16] <Iulian> Morning sistpoty|work
[10:17] <sistpoty|work> hi Iulian
[10:23] <geser> Hi sistpoty|work
[10:23] <sistpoty|work> hi geser
[10:24] <sebner> huhu sistpoty|work geser
[10:24] <sistpoty|work> hi sebner
[10:27] <geser> Hi sebner
[10:31] <sebner> huhu DktrKranz
[10:31] <DktrKranz> bubu sebner
[10:32] <sebner> ^^
[11:08] <huats> Syntux: hello
[11:08] <huats> are you around ?
[11:08] <Syntux> Good day huats
[11:08] <Syntux> yes sure
[11:08] <huats> how are you ?
[11:09] <Syntux> doing great :-)
[11:10] <calc> directhex: ping
[11:28] <huats> ScottK: hey
[11:28] <huats> ScottK: are you around ?
[11:28] <huats> norsetto !!!!
[11:28] <norsetto> huats?
[11:29] <norsetto> :-)
[11:29] <huats> :)
[11:35] <emgent> moin
[11:36] <Iulian> apachelogger: I finished to package gtkmm-utils version 0.3.2. Can you please delete the package from revu so I can upload a new one?
[11:36] <apachelogger> Iulian: you can just upload
[11:37] <Iulian> apachelogger: Uhm, I didn't know that's possible. Will upload it right now.
[11:39] <Iulian> apachelogger: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkmm-utils
[11:42] <apachelogger> Iulian: please consider resolving the november 21 comment
[11:43] <Iulian> apachelogger: Oups, forgot to add that dependency to fix the symlink problem.
[11:43] <Iulian> apachelogger: I'm fixing it now.
[11:45] <apachelogger> Iulian: maintainer are te Ubuntu MOTU Developers
[11:45] <apachelogger> *the
[11:45] <apachelogger> Iulian: see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/gtkmm-utils-0711211600/gtkmm-utils-0.3.0/debian/control
[11:46] <sebner> apachelogger: always hard working :P
[11:46] <Syntux> guys, I'm trying to build a pbuilder interpid env, --distribution interpid isn't working, complaining that /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/interpid  does not exists
[11:46] <apachelogger> sebner: you have no idea
[11:46] <sebner> apachelogger: well, I saw the uploads for intrepid :)
[11:46]  * apachelogger was packaging all official KDE 4 packages on weekend
[11:48] <Iulian> apachelogger: I thought that if I want to be the only maintainer of the package I can avoid that.
[11:48] <Iulian> apachelogger: Anyway, I will look for a sponsor to be included into Debian too.
[11:48] <Iulian> apachelogger: So, I think that won't be a problem with the Maintainer field.
[11:48] <sebner> apachelogger: right before the official announcement =)
[11:49] <calc> Syntux: do you have pbuilder from intrepid?
[11:49] <calc> Syntux: er debootstrap i mean
[11:49] <RAOF> Should people be looking for me, I'm unlikely to be online much this week.
[11:49] <calc> Syntux: probably need both from intrepid actually
[11:50] <Syntux> calc, okie how to get that
[11:50] <calc> Syntux: archive.ubuntu.com
[11:50] <calc> Syntux: or launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap etc
[11:50] <slytherin> Syntux: you need debootstrab form intrepid or hardy-backports
[11:51] <apachelogger> Iulian: in that case you wouldn't need to package it for ubuntu at all ... get it into debian and file a sync request (see ubuntu wiki)
[11:51] <Iulian> apachelogger: Well, I'm not planning to get it into Debian very soon.
[11:52] <apachelogger> well, then you need to use motu developers as maintainer
[11:52] <Iulian> apachelogger: Ok then.
[11:53] <calc> Iulian: there are sponsors for debian as well
[11:58] <apachelogger> Iulian: for the debian packaging copyright you might want to use GPL-2 in the URL
[11:58] <apachelogger> GPL islinking to GPL-3
[12:00] <Iulian> Right
[12:06] <warp10> norsetto: regarding the junior mentoring program, both MOTUs and members of ~universe-contributors are eligible to be mentors, right?
[12:07] <sebner> huhu jono =)
[12:08] <emgent> moin sebner warp10 jono
[12:08] <sebner> emgent: \o/
[12:10] <jono> hey
[12:27] <Iulian> apachelogger: It doesn't fix the symlink problem if I add libglibmm-utils2 as a dependency on libgtkmm-utils2. What version should I add?
[12:27] <persia> Does anyone have a workaround for "dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statoverride file" when trying to build against intrepid?
[12:35] <k0p> Iulian, are you package mantainer?
[12:36] <apachelogger> Iulian: why doesn't it?
[12:38] <Iulian> apachelogger: Uhmm, no idea, still looking.
[12:38] <apachelogger> Iulian: less DEBFILE
[12:38] <apachelogger> investigate the content
[12:38] <sebner> go apachelogger, go apachelogger ^^
[12:38] <apachelogger> you will see that every package's changelog and readme and stuff links to the libglibmm-utils2 package
[12:39] <c4_121> gogo
[12:39] <apachelogger> so one way or another every package should depend on libglibmm-utils2
[12:39] <c4_121> its my first time in unbuntu
[12:39] <c4_121> hi all
[12:40] <apachelogger> hey c4_121
[12:45] <AnAnt_> Hello, how can I know what alternatives are provided by which packages in my system ?
[12:46] <ScottK> huats: I am here for about 5 minutes.
[12:48] <huats> ScottK: no big deal
[12:48] <huats> I'll talk to you once you have more time :)
[12:48] <huats> just ping me :)
[12:49]  * ScottK will try to remember.
[12:54] <sebner> folks
[12:54] <sebner> now it's time to say goodbye
[12:54] <sebner> cya in 2 weeks =)
[12:54] <tacone> have good holydays
[12:54] <sebner> tacone: thx =)
[12:55] <huats> sebner: enjoy :)
[12:55] <norsetto> warp10: right
[13:00] <sistpoty|work> nice holidays sebner
[13:00] <warp10> norsetto: ok. Does that imply that for a prospective developer to be accepted as a contributor he should have enough skills and knowledge to be a mentor (apart from his own will to be an actual mentor)?
[13:03] <norsetto> warp10: as you correctly say, expert contributors will not be obliged to mentor junior ones, that will be purely on a volunteer bases.
[13:08] <warp10> norsetto: BTW, I like your document, and I especially like that expert contributors will mentor new prospective devs.
[13:10] <norsetto> warp10: yes, I think that is a big step forward in the right direction
[13:19] <Syntux> I'm having sort of a problem with dget and gpg, can someone help in that http://paste.syntux.net/bin/37
[13:23] <\sh> http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/justin/packagemanagersecurity/ <- nicely done :)
[13:34] <slytherin> Syntux: What help do you need there?
[13:34] <Iulian> apachelogger: I still can't figure out what could be the problem, sorry.
[13:35] <Iulian> apachelogger: I have no idea why depending on libglibmm-utils2 doesn't fix the problem.
[13:36] <Syntux> slytherin, dget complaining about the signature and aint creating guidedog-1.0.0,
[13:37] <Laney> Syntux: use dget -xu to skip verification, or dpkg-source -x <.dsc>
[13:37] <slytherin> Syntux: The complain about signature is because you don't have public key of the person who signed source package.
[13:38] <Syntux> slytherin, but it's support to extract the package with the -x right?
[13:38] <slytherin> Syntux: But that is no reason not extract source
[13:38] <slytherin> Syntux: yes it should
[13:38] <Syntux> well, it's not doing it
[13:38] <slytherin> Syntux: see if 'dpkg-source -x *.dsc' does it
[13:38] <Laney> dget will fail on a gpg failure unless you pass -u.
[13:39] <Syntux> Laney, it worked with -u
[13:39] <Laney> :)
[13:39] <Syntux> :-)
[13:40] <Hobbsee> Laney: that's not a fail - it's a warning.
[13:40] <Hobbsee> (thank goodness)
[13:40] <Laney> Well the package doesn't get extracted in that case
[13:40] <Laney> I'll get round to makeing a ubuntu-dev-keyring one day soon
[13:41] <Laney> making(
[13:41] <Laney> *
[13:41] <slytherin> Laney: On the contrary, I have always seen the package getting extracted irrespective of the check
[13:41] <Laney> Really? Maybe we have different prefs
[13:41] <Syntux> Laney, what prefs would cause such thing?
[13:42] <Laney> All I know is the behaviour I see
[13:42] <Hobbsee> slytherin: likewise
[14:10] <Hobbsee> jdong: can you backport recordmydesktop and rdepends, please?
[14:10] <Hobbsee> (it's broken in hardy)
[14:11] <calc> directhex: ping
[14:24]  * calc merged mono since directhex seems to be missing for a few days
[15:26] <Major_Kong> hi, i need some help making a debian package for a script. (i don't know to do it...) how do i proccede ?
[15:27] <laga> !packaging | Major_Kong
[15:27] <Major_Kong> does it cover making a package for a script ?
[15:30] <Major_Kong> ?
[15:33] <laga> Major_Kong: i'd assume so
[15:46] <devfil_> asac: ping
[15:53] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:54] <Iulian> Hi bddebian
[15:54] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[15:54] <bddebian> Hi Iulian, sistpoty|work
[15:55] <devfil> asac: you are my mentor, so probability you would know how I work to help me on avoid procedural error etc... I've recently done a package a little difficult, I think that looking at it you can learn how I work
[16:03] <asac> devfil: ah ok. so what are you working on?
[16:05] <devfil> asac: I'm currently working to update varkon at the latest version, however I've recently finished to update crystalspace at the 1.2.1 version (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/crystalspace/+bug/242961)
[16:07]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[16:13] <asac> devfil: ok. hard to check what you changed with just the diff.gz. can you attach a debdiff of just the debian/ directory for this update?
[16:15] <devfil> asac: I started from Debian debian dir, so a debdiff from debian version or ubuntu version?
[16:16] <asac> devfil: what version is currently in debian and what version is in ubuntu?
[16:17] <devfil> asac: in ubuntu 1.0, in debian trunk of 1.2
[16:17] <asac> devfil: when was trunk 1.2 uploaded?
[16:18] <devfil> asac: 06 February 2008
[16:22] <asac> devfil: ok. so this does two things in a row
[16:22] <asac> 1. merge
[16:22] <asac> 2. bump upstream version
[16:23] <devfil> asac: exactly
[16:24] <devfil> asac: do you want that I upload the debian dir only?
[16:36] <Hew> Hey guys, I'm looking into submitting my first patch. This fix just requires a dependency change in debian/control , but being a noob, I'm not sure what it is I need to do this. I've read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing and got the source, but I can't find debian/control (except for in the .diff). Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks
[16:42] <Hew> do I just modify the .diff file? This just doesn't seem like the right way to do it. Surely there's a page somewhere that details how to make non-source-code changes.
[16:42] <asac> devfil: yes please ... please the complete debdiff for ubnutu and the debdiff from debian to ubuntu
[16:43] <devfil> asac: no problem
[16:44] <Hew> never mind, I think I worked it out
[16:46] <devfil> asac: maybe a diff between ubuntu debian dir and 1.2.1 and Debian debian dir and 1.2.1 is the best solution, debdiff will include also the edited things on crystalspace sources
[16:50] <asac> devfil: yes, just the debdiff of the debian dir
[16:51] <asac> you can do the complete debdiff and use filterdiff to filter-in/-out the bits you want/dont want
[16:51] <asac> devfil: ^^
[16:51] <devfil> asac: ora I can do diff -ruN
[16:53] <asac> devfil: please use debdiff so you get used to the proper tools for doing that
[16:53] <devfil> asac: ok
[16:54] <slytherin> Hew: Yuo don't update diff, you extract source, make changes, update changelog and create source package again then you submit debdiff
[16:56] <Hew> slytherin: For some reason I missed the debian folder in the extracted source earlier; I've found it now. Thanks for your help.
[16:57] <slytherin> Hew: When I say extract source it means, 'dpkg-source -x *.dsc'
[16:58] <Hew> slytherin: I did apt-get source <packagename>, which seemed to do everything. Is this also a correct way of doing it?
[16:59] <slytherin> Hew: yes even that is fine. Only thing is that it needs deb-src urls in yuor /etc/apt/sources.list. Where as with dpkg-source you can extract any source
[17:00] <Hew> slytherin: Ah, gotcha. Yea, I made sure my source repositories were all there before I started. Thanks for the info.
[17:06] <devfil> asac: I'm unable to use interdiff I think
[17:07] <devfil> s/interdiff/filterdiff/
[17:11] <asac> devfil: why?
[17:11] <asac> debdiff .... | filterdiff -i*/debian/*
[17:11] <asac> should do the trick
[17:12] <devfil> uhm ok
[17:15] <slytherin> devfil: if you are upadting a package to new upstream version, simply attach .diff.gz to bug
[17:15] <devfil> slytherin: already done
[17:15] <slytherin> devfil: so why do you need interdiff then?
[17:16] <devfil> slytherin: asac asked to upload the debdiff between my pakcage and debian/ubuntu version
[17:17] <slytherin> devfil: asac is a developer, I am not. So it is your call. :-)
[17:21] <devfil> asac: all done
[17:22] <Major_Kong> quick question: i don't suppose there are scripts to help me create a package for a perl script and some bash scripts, is there ?
[17:22] <Major_Kong> *are there ?
[17:25] <AnAnt> Hello, may someone review this swt-gtk upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=swt-gtk ?
[17:28] <crimsun> mario_limonciell: it's due to upstream (Adobe) being crazy with their version numbers
[17:29] <crimsun> mario_limonciell: and yes, it's an attempt to avoid introducing an epoch, since Debian already uses an epoch, and I wanted to leave MOTU the option of reverting to the Debian source versioning
[17:32] <asac> devfil: what are the changes against crystalspace-1.2.1/CS/scripts/deb/core/debian/changelog
[17:32] <asac> is that a mirror of the real changelog?
[17:33] <asac> anyway. didnt we have any changes in ubuntu (vs. debian)?
[17:33] <devfil> asac: crystalspace-1.2.1/CS/scripts/deb/core/debian/changelog is the debian dir included in the official package, really old
[17:34] <devfil> the changes needed between ubuntu and debian are only build-depends
[17:34] <devfil> and I've included them
[17:35] <asac> devfil: why do we introduce crystalspace-1.2.1/debian/patches/csstartme_startme_cfg_programs.diff?
[17:35] <asac> (if its only the build-depends ;))
[17:36] <NCommander> morning world
[17:37] <AnAnt> asac: does gnash operation depend on existance of flashplugin-nonfree package ?
[17:37] <NCommander> AnAnt, no
[17:37] <emgent> moin NCommander
[17:37] <geser> Hi NCommander
[17:37] <asac> devfil: +	cd CS; DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/crystalspace $(MAKE) install_bin install_lib install_plugin install_data install_config
[17:37] <NCommander> I'm debating taking a break from FTBFS, and working on merges (its pretty much the same thing ;-))
[17:38] <asac> devfil: that line would have better  be just in the debian format (e.g. multipe lines)
[17:38] <asac> devfil: what license is debian/crystalspace/usr/share/crystalspace*/data/maps/castle/license.txt
[17:38] <asac> ?
[17:38] <asac> we appear to remove it
[17:39] <asac> if its a different license then the one the main program is under we should ship it in usr/share/doc/...
[17:42] <devfil> asac: I included it in debian/copright
[17:43] <asac> ok thats good enough
[17:46] <Hew> any ideas why 'debuild -S' isn't working for me? This is the first problem in the output I see: make[1]: /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make: No such file or directory
[17:46] <asac> devfil: so do you want to update the diff.gz for install_ thing? otherwise i would ack it
[17:47] <geser> Hew: sudo apt-get install quilt
[17:47] <NCommander> and then probably add quilt to the build-deps
[17:47] <asac> devfil: i think its better to include that change as could send the diff directly to debian then
[17:47] <geser> NCommander: it probably is already but not installed
[17:47] <asac> and chances are higher that it would be included
[17:48] <devfil> asac: what you mean in "so do you want to update the diff.gz for install_ thing? otherwise i would ack it"?
[17:48] <NCommander> geser, debuild will not build if source dependencies are not satisfied
[17:48] <asac> devfil: read the comments i gave above ;)
[17:49] <Hew> geser: Just what I needed! Thanks :-)
[17:49] <geser> NCommander: debuild -S doesn't need all build-dependencies installed, just the one use in the clean target, which is called before the source package gets build
[17:51] <devfil> asac: Debian maintainer seems to be offline and this package is "outdated". I prefer to include this in ubuntu and make a NMU with the same changes, so when maintainer will upload my NMU we will sync the package
[17:54] <asac> devfil: thats not the point. i just said that you shouldnt have moved from a multi-line install to a one liner :)
[17:54] <asac> otherwise i agree
[17:55] <RoAkSoAx> greetings! xD
[17:55] <devfil> asac: ah ok, I didn't understand, however why?
[17:57] <asac> devfil: just to be closer ... the diff would have been smaller and better reviewable ,)
[17:57] <asac> its not a big point though. but in the end its just removing the "arch" ifs ... so there is no need to redo that line imo
[17:57] <devfil> ok
[17:57] <devfil> what do you think about all work?
[17:57] <asac> devfil: just imagine on next merge ... the diff will be more comprehensible
[17:58] <asac> devfil: looks good. well done
[17:58] <devfil> ok
[18:01] <ilembitov1> Hi, guys. Can somebody explain to me - is maintaining packages in Universe strictly tied to Ubuntu release schedule?
[18:03] <ilembitov1> Just I try to understand, why universe doesn't get updates to major packages after release
[18:04] <lukehasnoname> <non-motu person here> Update requests have to be submitted, and there has to be a good reason (major bug, required version update, etc.)
[18:05] <ilembitov1> Oh, so Universe can get major updates?
[18:05] <Laney> That's what backports are for
[18:06] <stgraber> ilembitov1: Ubuntu's policy is not to update software once the release is out. Only a few packages are exceptions like Firefox, others just have to be fixed by getting the security/bugfix from the new upstream version and applying it on the version in the repository.
[18:06] <stgraber> to get newer release of a software, use backport.
[18:06] <ilembitov1> But backports don't contain fresh software either...
[18:07] <ilembitov1> Do baskports get update only after a request?
[18:07]  * Laney  nods
[18:08] <lukehasnoname> hm
[18:08] <lukehasnoname> nexuiz should get a backport update
[18:09]  * lukehasnoname will probably fill out a report on bugs.LP, right?
[18:09] <ilembitov1> plt-scheme should get an update. It didn't get one for years...
[18:10] <stgraber> backport is usually taking a release from the current devel version (Intrepid) and having it backported to an older release like hardy
[18:10] <stgraber> so the package first has to be newer in the current devel release
[18:10] <persia> ilembitov1: Has intrepid been updated yet?
[18:10] <lukehasnoname> stgraber: Got it.
[18:11] <ilembitov1> ilembitov1: What do you mean?
[18:48] <apachelogger> Iulian: it does
[18:48] <apachelogger> why do you think it does not?
[18:53] <Iulian> apachelogger: Because when running lintian against the changes file it complains.
[18:54] <apachelogger> Iulian: lintian is not always the smartest sorcerer to ask ;-)
[18:54] <Iulian> apachelogger: Ok then, I will upload it to revu right now.
[18:58] <Iulian> apachelogger: Uploaded, please have a look at it.
[18:59] <slytherin> geser: I am confused with the bug state changes in statcvs sync bug, can you please explain?
[19:11] <apachelogger> Iulian: should be ok now, I will give it a complete revu later on
[19:20] <Iulian> apachelogger: Sure, just ping me if you need something.
[19:22] <bobbo>                                           /whois norsetto
[19:22] <bobbo> sorry!
[19:23] <foxmike> Hi! I'm stuck with a packaging problem.  I'm trying to package brasero-0.8.0 (new upstream version) for hardy, but the build fails.  Can anyone help me sorting it out?
[19:25] <Laney> foxmike: You might be interested to know that ember has uploaded that version to LP for intrepid ;)
[19:26] <foxmike> thank you, I'll take a look at it right now!
[19:28] <jpds> bobbo: hmmm
[19:32] <foxmike> Laney: I've been looking https://launchpad.net/~ember/+archive?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=any and https://launchpad.net/~ember/+archive?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=any and I have not seen any brasero package.  Can you confirm I'm looking the right pages?  Maybe it is just not there yet?
[19:33] <foxmike> Well, actually I haven't found any brasero 0.8.0 for the later page...
[19:33] <Laney> foxmike: It's not been uploaded to the archive, just on a bug waiting for sponsorship I believe.
[19:33] <Laney> look at the bugs for brasero in Ubuntu on LP
[19:33] <foxmike> ok I'll check there, thank you!
[19:44] <bddebian> Do be do be dooo
[19:51] <Iulian> bddebian: Scooby Doo?
[19:51] <bddebian> Sure :)
[19:53] <Iulian> bddebian: Are you still watching cartoons? Grow up!
[19:53]  * Iulian smiles
[19:53] <tacone> omg, what's wrong with cartoons ?
[20:13] <AstralJava> Sound gurus, if aconnect is provided by alsa-utils, what -dev package needs to be included as build-depends for an application depending on it (aconnect) to be built properly? I've got a problem in which a package builds fine on pbuilder (intrepid), but fails in PPA.
[20:14] <AstralJava> Oh, and it fails on finding aconnect.
[20:14] <AstralJava> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16044984/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.rakarrack_0.2.0%2B20080710svn-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[20:37] <k0p> someone can make a review of my package, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=umit
[20:38] <norsetto> k0p: why?
[20:39] <k0p> norsetto, well.. I need a review to package should be added on ubuntu, right?
[20:39] <AstralJava> *blink* *blink* why? What why?
[20:40] <norsetto> k0p: yes, but why should we review your package? I don't mean to be rude, just would like to understand why we should
[20:42] <k0p> norsetto, oh I understand. I never make a package before. Umit it's a graphic front-end for nmap. and it should be nice that umit will be added in ubuntu repository to our users don't have install manually.
[20:42] <norsetto> k0p: ok, thanks for letting me know
[20:43] <norsetto> k0p: do you know what is a watch file?
[20:43] <slytherin> AstralJava: is your pbuilder chroot distribution same as ppa?
[20:43] <k0p> norsetto, nop
[20:44] <norsetto> k0p: did you read our packaging guide? Its explained in there (too)
[20:44] <k0p> read some parts of guide. I'll read it
[20:45] <norsetto> k0p: we really appreciate having a watch file, it helps to keep packages up to date and automatise some of the review tasks
[20:45] <AstralJava> slytherin: pbuilder distribution is intrepid, and updated. changelog tells PPA buildd that the distribution is intrepid. Can I make a difference somehow?
[20:46] <k0p> hmm about the package?
[20:46] <k0p> or about the code?
[20:46] <slytherin> AstralJava: I was just confirming if your pbuilder was intrepid
[20:46] <norsetto> k0p: the watch file is part of the package
[20:46] <AstralJava> slytherin: Oh, okay. Yes, it is. :)
[20:46] <slytherin> AstralJava: The log you referred is Ubuntu build log, right? not PPA log
[20:47] <k0p> norsetto, so it's like make package downloading the code from svn?
[20:47] <slytherin> AstralJava: If the package needs aconnect to build which is provided by alsa-utils then you need to add alsa-utils in build depends
[20:47] <norsetto> k0p: could be, but in that case it would also be nice to have a get-orig-source target in debian/rules
[20:49] <AstralJava> slytherin: Nope, that's from launchpad. Here is the pbuilder log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/27551/
[20:50] <AstralJava> slytherin: That's the thing, I wanted understand why my pbuilder works without it. :)
[20:50] <slytherin> AstralJava: any change yu have some additional packages in pbuilder chroot?
[20:50] <k0p> norsetto, so I need add a target get-orig-source?
[20:50] <norsetto> k0p: for packaging python apps, you should really use one of our two python helpers: pycentral or pysupport
[20:52] <slytherin> k0p: if the software is released in .tar.gz format then you may not need get-orig-source, only watch file. But you need to repack and pack or do some additional changes to tar.gz file then you will need get-orig-source targer
[20:53] <norsetto> k0p: I have 248 lintian warnings and 3 warnings, I think this is a record :-)
[20:53] <norsetto> k0p: s/3 warnings /3 errors/
[20:53] <AstralJava> slytherin: No additional scripts from me, no.
[20:53] <k0p> I have 248 warnings?
[20:53] <k0p> lol
[20:53] <k0p> or errors?
[20:54] <k0p> here I don't have errors
[20:54] <norsetto> k0p: 248 warnings and 3 errors
[20:54] <Iulian> Whoah!
[20:54] <geser> slytherin: Riddell processed today sync requests but apparently forgot to add a flag that the ubuntu changes can be overwritten. The script set the status nonetheless to "fix released" and pitti asked me to reopen them, so they are back at confirmed.
[20:54] <norsetto> k0p: thats because you didn't check the binary packages
[20:54] <k0p> norsetto, I don't have warnings in my ubuntu.. and not online. How you see this errors?
[20:54] <k0p> binary packages?
[20:55] <slytherin> geser: Yes, I understood that later. :-)
[20:55] <norsetto> k0p: yes, after you have build your source package, you should use lintian to check your binary packages
[20:55] <slytherin> AstralJava: Which package is it? I will try building in my pbuilder
[20:55] <k0p> norsetto, I only have one warning here
[20:56] <norsetto> k0p: or just check the binary .changes, lintian will check all binary automatically
[20:56] <k0p> norsetto, lintian -iIv?
[20:56] <AstralJava> slytherin: rakarrack, it'll be new. Sources can be found in my PPA @ deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/astraljava/ubuntu intrepid main
[20:57] <AstralJava> err... deb-src naturally
[20:57] <slytherin> AstralJava: is it on revu?
[20:58] <norsetto> k0p: lintian umit_0.9.5-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[21:00] <k0p> norsetto, I don't have errors :/
[21:00] <norsetto> k0p: try giving lintian a kick or two, guess just needs to warm up ....
[21:00] <slytherin> k0p: have you installed lintian from intrepid or hardy-backports? Also did you do lintian *.changes?
[21:01] <slytherin> geser: Do you think you can find enough time to review and sponsor batik update?
[21:01] <k0p> hardy-backports
[21:02] <AstralJava> slytherin: Yes. http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/details.py?package=rakarrack
[21:05] <norsetto> k0p: the precompiled translation files are no-go
[21:06] <CarlFK> installed intrepid, added  http://akirad.cinelerra.org/dists/gutsy.list, then did apt-get build-dep cinelerra
[21:06] <CarlFK> E: Package libfaad2-dev has no installation candidate.  However the following packages replace it:   libfaad-dev
[21:07] <k0p> norsetto, no-go?
[21:07] <CarlFK> should I tell the cinelerra package maintainer, or is that something that should be logged in lp?
[21:07] <k0p> slytherin, there are a guide to install lintian from intrepid?
[21:07] <norsetto> k0p: yes, they are totally against the GPL which the package claims to be licensed with
[21:08] <slytherin> k0p: no, one from hardy-backports is fine
[21:08] <k0p> hmm ok
[21:08] <k0p> norsetto, we have .mo files
[21:09] <slytherin> CarlFK: Tell cinelerra maintainer
[21:09] <norsetto> k0p: exactly, you need the sources
[21:09] <CarlFK> slytherin: ok.  thanks.
[21:09] <k0p> we have the sources too
[21:09] <norsetto> k0p: no sources (or "preferred form of modification"), no GPL
[21:09] <slytherin> CarlFK: By the way, you are using gutsy url in intrepid, libfaad2-dev is present in gutsy.
[21:10] <k0p> norsetto, you're right
[21:11] <k0p> I don't know what's happer
[21:11] <k0p> happen
[21:11] <norsetto> k0p: you really have to ask upstream, its for his own good too
[21:11] <k0p> norsetto, remove mo files and add the sources right?
[21:11] <k0p> upstream?
[21:11] <geser> slytherin: I can try
[21:12] <norsetto> k0p: the author
[21:12] <CarlFK> slytherin: not sure what to do with that
[21:12] <k0p> oh yeah
[21:12] <k0p> sure
[21:13] <slytherin> geser: Actually I could not get hold of blueyed for last 3-4 days. So I have readded the bug to u-u-s queue as per discussion with persia. There are few packages in DEPWAIT due to batik.
[21:14] <slytherin> CarlFK: Why are you building package from their site?
[21:14] <k0p> norsetto, so: add watch file ;  see pycentral or pysupport ; remove .mo files ; add po files. And more?
[21:14] <norsetto> k0p: Maintainer will be MOTU, you can list yourself as the XSBC-OriginalMaintainer
[21:15] <slytherin> AstralJava: Your package build fine for my intrepid pbuilder too. Seems to be some problem with PPA then.
[21:15] <norsetto> k0p: and don't forget the 248+3 from lintian ;-)
[21:15] <CarlFK> slytherin: i think it uses trunk - but not sure actually
[21:15] <k0p> norsetto, I don't see it :S
[21:15] <k0p> :(
[21:16] <norsetto> k0p: what is the exact command you are giving ?
[21:16] <k0p> lintian umit_0.9.5-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[21:17] <norsetto> k0p: build-depends and depends needs to be revisited once you use pycentral/pysupport
[21:17] <slytherin> CarlFK: What you can do is 'apt-get source cinelerra', change libfaad2-dev to libfaad-dev in debian/control file, add changelog entry and then do 'dpkg-buildpackage -b'
[21:17] <norsetto> k0p: what do you have in your umit_0.9.5-0ubuntu1_all.deb? Is it empty!?
[21:18] <AstralJava> slytherin: Thanks for confirming. I uploaded a version that has alsa-utils in build-depends. Let's see how it works. Unfortunately I seem to have accidentally uploaded the new version to REVU also, when I could have merely updated the former. It hasn't showed up yet, but can I request a deletion if it turns out as another package in REVU?
[21:18] <norsetto> k0p: and the description is to be totally redone, please read the packaging guide on how to do that properly
[21:18] <slytherin> AstralJava: any change that that failure is arch specific?
[21:19] <slytherin> AstralJava: because I have i386, and your log was for amd64
[21:19] <AstralJava> slytherin: Nope, failed on all archs.
[21:19] <AstralJava> slytherin: Same reason also.
[21:19] <k0p> norsetto, ok
[21:19] <norsetto> k0p: why do you repeat the GPL license header two times? one is enough
[21:20] <norsetto> k0p: use the one with the correct FSF address ;-)
[21:20] <norsetto> k0p: and the pointer for GPL-2 is /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
[21:22] <norsetto> k0p: for the download location this is enough: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/umit/
[21:22] <k0p> norsetto, is it in watch file?
[21:22] <norsetto> k0p: and use your full name in debian/copyright
[21:22] <norsetto> k0p: no, all these in debian/copyright
[21:23] <mouz> would someone like to sponsor my latest patch for bug 246106? thanks :)
[21:24] <k0p> norsetto, ok
[21:24] <geser> slytherin: I've found the .diff.gz for batik, do you know what's the easiest way to get the .orig.tar.gz?
[21:24] <norsetto> k0p: there is also another license for the higwidgets, it is the LGPL-2.1
[21:24] <AstralJava> slytherin: PPA builds succeed now with alsa-utils added. Gonna investigate more tomorrow, gotta get to bed now. Thanks for helping out.
[21:24] <k0p> yeah.. I need to include too?
[21:24] <slytherin> geser: target get-orig-source. :-)
[21:25] <slytherin> AstralJava: welcome
[21:26] <geser> slytherin: now I just to figure out, how I get debian/rules out of the .diff.gz
[21:26] <norsetto> k0p: absolutely, but there is possibly an eror since all sources in higwidgets are licensed GPL-2, this has to be clarified upstream too
[21:26] <norsetto> k0p:  Guilherme Polo<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is an author too
[21:26] <k0p> norsetto, yeah it was fixed in the trunk too
[21:26] <CarlFK> slytherin: thanks
[21:27] <k0p> the licence of higwidgets was fixed.. i'll update
[21:27] <k0p> norsetto, what's about the author guilherme?
[21:27] <slytherin> geser: well, you can gunzip .diff.gz and the do 'patch -p1 < .diff' any directory, you will all the debian files
[21:27] <norsetto> k0p: he is quoted as the author in one of the source files
[21:27] <k0p> yeah
[21:28] <k0p> it was
[21:28] <k0p> it is
[21:28] <k0p> is it to included in debian/copyright
[21:28] <k0p> ?
[21:30] <norsetto> k0p: yes, its better
[21:30] <k0p> norsetto, ok. I have all the notes
[21:30] <k0p> I only have the problem
[21:30] <k0p> because I don't see warnings
[21:30] <k0p> can you upload it to pastebin?
[21:31] <k0p> well.. may be I need to install other lintian
[21:31] <norsetto> k0p: which pastebin you prefer?
[21:32] <k0p> choose you :)
[21:32] <norsetto> !pastebin
[21:33] <CarlFK> slytherin: dpkg-buildpackage will get the dependencies?
[21:33] <norsetto> k0p: http://paste.ubuntu.com/27556/
[21:33] <k0p> thanks
[21:34] <k0p> norsetto, what commend do you execute to see it?
[21:34] <slytherin> CarlFK: No, it just build package. You will have to install dependencies manually I guess, at least one i.e. libfaad-dev
[21:34] <slytherin> geser: Any more inputs needed form me? I have to go to sleep.
[21:34] <broonie> apt-get build-dep might be handy
[21:34] <CarlFK> broonie: build-dep is erroring
[21:34] <norsetto> k0p: lintian umit_0.9.5-0ubuntu1_amd64.changes
[21:34] <CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/65185/
[21:35] <slytherin> broonie: Not in his case. He is using a source for gutsy where libfaad2-dev was present. But his distribution is intrepid where libfaad-dev is needed
[21:35] <norsetto> k0p: you don't need README.Debian
[21:38] <k0p> k
[21:38] <k0p> ok
[21:38] <norsetto> k0p: what are the .dmp files?
[21:39] <k0p> norsetto, sqlite I think
[21:40] <k0p> oh no
[21:40] <k0p> it's not
[21:40] <k0p> it's a file with information to identify servers
[21:40] <geser> slytherin: still fighting to get the .orig.tar.gz but I make progress
[21:40] <slytherin> geser: what is problem?
[21:41] <slytherin> geser: I mean doesn't 'make -f debian/rules get-orig-source' work for you?
[21:41] <geser> slytherin: I guess the last problem was that the dir I was running get-orig-source was badly named (just batik and not batik-1.7, so tar failed)
[21:41] <norsetto> k0p: in the desktop files, add a ; at the end of the categories line
[21:42] <norsetto> k0p: do you need to run this thing as root?
[21:42] <k0p> yeah it's needed
[21:42] <slytherin> geser: I think it shouldn't make a difference. The upstream zip will be extracted into separate dir with proper version.
[21:42] <geser> hmm
[21:42] <norsetto> k0p: ok, the you only need one desktop file
[21:43] <geser> slytherin: does the packaging base on the Debian package? if yes, did you need to change much?
[21:43] <k0p> norsetto, why?
[21:43] <norsetto> k0p: in the desktop file, use an imperative verb in the comment
[21:43] <k0p> I can run it as root or without root
[21:43] <norsetto> k0p: you said you need to be root
[21:44] <k0p> norsetto, my mistake
[21:44] <slytherin> geser: Debian doesn't have get-orig-source. Also as far as I remember pdf-transcoder.jar file was removed in repackaged source. I am deleting all jar files in clean target instead.
[21:44] <k0p> I can run with root or without root
[21:44] <norsetto> k0p: well, still, if you don't you still need one desktop file only
[21:44] <k0p> with root we have all previligiuous to make some scans
[21:44] <k0p> but I need twice
[21:44] <slytherin> geser: One more thing. pdf-transcoder source is updated. You can find detail in README.Debian-source
[21:45] <slytherin> geser: But rest everything is same IIRC
[21:45] <norsetto> k0p: than the application is bogus, for the priviledged operation they would need to switch to root , but it will have to be done within the application
[21:45] <slytherin> geser: except the usual updates.
[21:46] <geser> slytherin: now I finally got a .orig.tar.gz
[21:46] <slytherin> geser: If it is too much trouble, leave it. We can discuss in detail tomorrow. I have to go now.
[21:47] <slytherin> geser: Ok. Best luck with review then. :-) Bye.
[21:47] <norsetto> k0p: looks like the icon is not correctly installed
[21:48] <k0p> norsetto, about the last comment I think that we can't switch to root in runtime
[21:49] <k0p> about last..well
[21:49] <norsetto> k0p: /usr/share/icons/umit_ico_48px.svg but you want it in /usr/share/icons/umit/umit_ico_48px.svg
[21:50] <norsetto> k0p: anyhow, thats it for tonigh, now you have enough to keep you busy for the next few weeks ;-)
[21:50] <k0p> norsetto, not the next few weeks dude.
[21:51] <k0p> i'll working hard to fix it :D
[21:51] <k0p> I hope finish tomorrow
[21:51] <k0p> but it's lot of warnings :O
[21:51] <k0p> and erros
[21:52] <k0p> to fix
[21:52] <k0p> norsetto, btw thanks a lot!
[21:52] <k0p> it's very nice your help
[21:53] <norsetto> k0p: my pleasure
[21:53] <TGD> hi
[21:53] <k0p> :)
[21:55] <TGD> hello
[21:56] <TGD> hmmm
[21:58] <huats> norsetto !!!
[21:58] <norsetto> huats !!!
[21:58] <norsetto> the well aligned couple :-)
[21:58] <huats> :)
[21:59] <huats> thanks for trying to find a mentor to didrocks, you wont be disapointed
[22:00] <norsetto> huats: I hope he will be true to his name ;-)
[22:00] <huats> :=
[22:00] <huats> :)
[22:01] <huats> I am sure he will
[22:01] <norsetto> whats :=, a funny guy with two breadsticks in his nose?
[22:02] <huats> no simply a funny french guy that has some pbs with it keyboard :)
[22:02] <norsetto> lol
[22:03] <norsetto> _#($%_#_#@$_@#%
[22:04]  * tacone HATES french keyboards
[22:04]  * norsetto hates french women
[22:05]  * Laney loves french cheese
[22:06] <emgent> argh
[22:06]  * tacone bleurgh
[22:10] <k0p> norsetto,  should I remove mo files?
[22:11] <norsetto> k0p: it would be better, they should be created at build time
[22:11] <k0p> ok
[22:13] <k0p> norsetto, I can't make nothing a respect two desktop files
[22:13] <norsetto> emgent: o/
[22:13] <k0p> if users want he should be run umit as root
[22:14] <k0p> may be next release of umit it should be fixed
[22:16] <emgent> norsetto: o/
[22:20] <CarlFK> looking at hvirtual-2.1.0/debian/control I see libfaad2-dev | libfaad-dev,
[22:20] <CarlFK> so shouldn't it use libfaad-dev if it can't get the first?
[22:24] <Adri2000> it should
[22:34] <tormod> git help please: how can I undo a commit, but keep changes (cause I want to change something but push only one commit in the end)?
[22:36] <NCommander> I don't think its possible in git to do that short of going back to the old revision and then applying diffs manually
[22:38] <tormod> git reset --soft ?
[22:38] <wgrant> Use bzr :P
[22:39] <tormod> NCommander: going back how? git reset --hard?
[22:39] <tormod> wgrant: I think I know how to do this with bzr, yes :)
[22:39] <NCommander> I'd agree with wgrant, use bzr ;-)
[22:39] <norsetto> bzr? whats bzr!?
[22:40] <NCommander> tormod, by recloning the git repo, and then applying your patches to that and commiting
[22:40] <tormod> NCommander: starting from scratch that is... I was hoping for something less bandwidth hungry
[22:41] <Adri2000> tormod: git reset doesn't work?
[22:41]  * NCommander does not think that highly of git
[22:42] <tormod> Adri2000: just tried git reset --hard , and I can still see my changes
[22:43] <Adri2000> git reset <commit> ?
[22:43] <tormod> Adri2000: just found that out thanks
[22:43] <NCommander> Adri2000, that simply changes the working tree, it doesn't effect his local repo
[22:44] <Adri2000> NCommander: you mean it doesn't remove the commit?
[22:44] <tormod> the problem is I never understood CVS, only did was I was told. working tree? repo?
[22:44] <tormod> (I don't expect to be explained this here now)
[22:44] <Adri2000> in git you have index as well :)
[22:45] <NCommander> Adri2000, nope. out of the box, there isn't a way to completely elimiate a revision short of editing files to my knowledge
[22:45] <tormod> Adri2000: brain overload :)
[22:45] <NCommander> But I haven't used git in quite some time
[22:45] <NCommander> So I can't say for sure its right
[22:46] <tormod> but hey, "git reset --hard <commit>" changed my files and according to "git log" some meta information as well. looks good
[22:47] <NCommander> Well, if that works, then neat
[22:51]  * NCommander adds it to his git cheatsheet
[22:51] <NCommander> I still think git is almost as bad as GNU arch
[22:51] <NCommander> But at least its not as messy
[22:58] <tormod> arch - I had forgot about that one. as if it's not enough with svn, git, bzr and that they keep changing.
[23:14]  * NCommander blows the dust on his How To Package memories
[23:24] <k0p> where I can know more about pycentral and pysupport?
[23:31] <warp10> Hi all
[23:36] <NCommander>  when you name a library, the dev package is libraryname-dev, and the actual library is libraryname0, where zero is the ABI, right?
[23:38] <k0p> lintian V please
[23:39] <k0p> lintian -V
[23:39] <NCommander> ??
[23:39] <k0p> NCommander, it's not for you.
[23:40] <NCommander> oh
[23:40] <ScottK> NCommander: Yes.
[23:41] <NCommander> should I start the numbering at 0 or 1
[23:41] <Adri2000> 0
[23:41] <ScottK> k0p: Look in the new python policy (google for Debian new python policy) and in the docs for each package.
[23:41] <NCommander> (this is the first time in like years I've packaged a library)
[23:41] <Adri2000> NCommander: you start counting at 0, right? :)
[23:41] <NCommander> Adri2000, no, -1 ;-)
[23:41] <NCommander> I'm always owing someone something so I need to take that into account
[23:41] <k0p> ScottK, ok thanks
[23:42] <k0p> ScottK, what version of lintian do you use?
[23:42] <NCommander> ok, got the watch file done, just need to update the copyright file, clean up the rules, and add the descriptions to the control file, and then upload to REVU
[23:43] <ScottK> k0p: 1.24.2
[23:45] <k0p> 1.24.1 is old school?
[23:45] <ScottK> As of about two days ago, yes.
[23:45] <k0p> I guy found 248 warnings in my package and I don't see it
[23:45] <ScottK> What package?
[23:45] <k0p> umit
[23:47] <ScottK> Right now it's packaged as a native package, so fix that first.
[23:47] <ScottK> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/umit-0807160010/lintian
[23:47] <k0p> are you talking about warning?
[23:47] <k0p> uploading..
[23:48] <k0p> ScottK, I already upload.
[23:48] <k0p> when It's online I'll say to you
[23:49] <k0p> 2 minutes remaining :)
[23:58] <k0p> ScottK, can you take a look now?
[23:58] <k0p> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=umit


[11:23] <bac> hello frankban -- welcome back
[11:42] <frankban> morning bac, thank you, how is it going?
[11:43] <bac> frankban: good, thanks.
[11:43] <bac> frankban: hey, i have a review mentor for you!
[11:43] <frankban> bac: cool, who is?
[11:43] <bac> raphaël (rvba) has volunteered but he cannot start for a couple of weeks until the 12.04 release of MAAS
[11:44] <bac> hope that's ok.  he's in france so the time zone should be perfect
[11:45] <frankban> it's perfect, I know him, it was my roommate in budapest, thanks bac
[11:45] <bac> oh, i did not know that.  glad it worked out.
[11:46] <bac> frankban: perhaps you can coordinate with rvba to see about getting started.  you should probably just pick whichever day is his on-call review day and dedicate that day of the week to working with him.
[11:46] <bac> although now it does not seem reviewing takes nearly as much time as it used to
[11:52] <frankban> cool bac, I will contact him. so the task here is start reviewing code with him until I will be ready to do that by myself?
[11:54] <bac> frankban: he will explain the reviewing process and approach to you.  then, on whatever day he is on call, you'll work with him doing reviews.  you'll do a full review but he will then review your review.  that step must be taken before the developer can treat the MP as approved.
[11:54] <bac> as a mentor your reviews are provisional until he approves it.
[11:56] <bac> in LP we denote that by putting a '*' on the review type to indicate it must be mentored.  so when you do a code review you'll mark the review type as 'code*'.  later rvba will look at it, and if he agrees, he'll mark it as a 'code' review and then it can be accepted.
[11:56] <bac> hope that makes sense.  it really is quite straightforward
[11:57] <frankban> sure bac, thanks
[11:58] <bac> frankban: thanks for volunteering to take this step.  it really is important for the team and for your development as you get to see all parts of the code base.
[11:59] <gary_poster> welcome back frankban!  I hope you had a great vacation
[12:00] <frankban> morning gary_poster, thanks, yes, I enjoyed my holidays, an the final dissertation of my girlfriend went very well
[12:09] <bac> frankban: what was her topic?  something related to art history, no?
[12:10] <bac> gary_poster: T-0?
[12:10] <gary_poster> frankban, exellent!  congratulations to her
[12:10] <gary_poster> frankban, just approved one of your lpsetup (urandom) MPs with comment
[12:10] <gary_poster> bac, yes oops
[12:10] <gary_poster> bac benji frankban call ASAP, no later than 2 from now
[12:10] <frankban> bac, architectural designing
[12:11] <bac> ah, right.
[13:16] <gary_poster> bac, I'm < 10 min away fwiw.  then you'll only have a half hour, but so be it
[13:17] <bac> ok
[13:17] <bac> let's try the new super ssh screen sharing https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/RemoteTerminalBroadcasting
[13:24] <gary_poster> bac, cool.  you're driving, I assume?
[13:26] <gary_poster> bac, I'm in goldenhorde
[13:28] <bac> hi gary_poster.  joining now
[13:29] <gary_poster> cool
[13:45] <gary_poster> bac, fwiw I disconnected from the screen sharing
[13:46] <bac> gary_poster: just killed it
[13:47] <gary_poster> cool
[13:57] <bac> juju has now deprecated default-image-id and default-instance-type.
[13:59] <gary_poster> ah right
[13:59] <gary_poster> in favor of constraints
[13:59] <gary_poster> which I haven't learned how to use yet
[14:00] <gary_poster> benji, would collaborating be useful?
[14:03] <benji> gary_poster: sure; let me prepeare
[14:04] <gary_poster> cool
[14:07] <benji> gary_poster: the horde awaits
[15:25] <bac> gary_poster: the new --constraints interface to juju looks like it will make the script easier.  no need to rewrite the environments.yaml
[15:25] <bac> the documentation has problems, though, but it seems to be easy to work around
[15:25] <gary_poster> awesome bac.  and then I can look at your script to see how the heck it actually works now :-)
[15:26] <bac> gary_poster: work-in-progress:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/923449/
[15:26] <bac> it looks like you can only pass one k=v pair per --constraints param, despite what the docs say
[15:27] <bac> and you must get rid of default-instance-type and default-image-id from your environments.yaml
[15:28] <bac> i'm unsure of the relation between instance-type and cpu settings.  does a c1.xlarge imply cpu=8?
[15:29] <gary_poster> bac, the relation is defined by the instance type
[15:29] <gary_poster> IOW, a given instance type has a certain number of cores
[15:30] <gary_poster> as defined by Amazon
[15:30] <gary_poster> bac, look for "virtual cores" in http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/
[15:31] <bac> gary_poster: so is that the default number of cpus but the --constraint "cpus=n" changes it?
[15:32] <bac> as seen here: https://juju.ubuntu.com/DeprecatedEnvironmentSettings
[15:34] <bac> gary_poster: nm
[15:34] <bac> Note that cpu and mem conflict with instance-type, and should not be specified at the same time; and that setting a service constraint that conflicts with an environment constraint will cause the environment constraint to be ignored for that service.
[15:34] <gary_poster> bac, ah! ok cool
[17:16]  * bac -> late lunch + bike
[17:26] <gary_poster> benji, I see you working, but trying to talk to hallyn.  will join in a bit
[17:27] <benji> gary_poster: k
[17:31] <gary_poster> frankban, hey.  so, I talked to hallyn
[17:32] <gary_poster> he hadn't seen what I wrote him earlier today
[17:32] <gary_poster> he is +1 on lxc-ip but it can't go into precise
[17:32] <gary_poster> we could install in in our own packages but also contribute it upstream
[17:34] <frankban> cool gary_poster, thanks.
[17:34] <gary_poster> frankban, he asks us to file a bug and then attach a patch
[17:35] <gary_poster> I'm happy to do whatever will help, or leave it to you.  You doing it means more props for you :-)
[17:35] <gary_poster> (to Ubuntu, I mean)
[17:35] <gary_poster> frankban, he also wonders if we can do better than the grep
[17:36] <gary_poster> like, for instance, querying a dhcp server
[17:36] <gary_poster> he also said this:
[17:36] <gary_poster> "note that if we add '-q' to lxc's dnsmasq then we can get the ip addr from syslog but i don't see any way to send just the mapping to a file under /var/run/lxc"
[17:36] <gary_poster> I'm not clear on how we would use that, but maybe you are, or maybe it would give you an interesting thing to look into
[17:38] <frankban> gary_poster: hmm... I have no idea about that right now, but I think it is worth investigating. Didn't know we can avoid using dhcp leases
[17:41] <gary_poster> me either :P
[17:41] <gary_poster> I'm not sure we can
[17:42] <gary_poster> I don't think he is saying "do it this way" but "consider/investigate this way"
[17:42] <gary_poster> could be wrong :-)
[17:48] <frankban> got it, I think it's worth trying. I will file a bug for adding lxc-ip, EOD, thanks and good evening gary_poster
[17:48] <gary_poster> thanks frankban, have a nice evening
[18:06] <gary_poster> benji, I'm in goldenhorde
[18:22] <benji> gary_poster: am I here?
[19:00] <bac> benji, gary_poster: have you seen this before?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/923796/
[19:01] <bac> it seems transient, so i'm wondering if we should put a retry option into the 'run' helper command
[19:01] <benji> bac: not that I remember, looks nasty
[19:02] <gary_poster> bac, I don't think so either
[19:02] <bac> it is killing the script b/c it catches this one exception and then gives up
[19:14] <benji> gary_poster: my machine died hard; doing updates and rebooting and then I'll re-join the horde
[19:14] <gary_poster> ack benji
[19:14] <gary_poster> TestProtocolClient is what I was thinking of
[19:15] <benji> gary_poster: what does that do?
[19:15] <gary_poster> benji, The ``subunit.TestProtocolClient`` class is a ``unittest.TestResult``
[19:15] <gary_poster> extension which will translate a test run into a Subunit stream.
[19:18] <gary_poster> benji, and the "tags" method behaves exactly as I suspected:
[19:18] <gary_poster> it has no concept of state
[19:18] <gary_poster> if you say there is a tag added,
[19:19] <gary_poster> it reports that the tag is added
[19:19] <gary_poster> with no concept of whether you are in a test or not in a test, or whether that tag has been reported recently or not
[19:19] <gary_poster> so if you use that as your test result
[19:20] <gary_poster> and then you wrap it with something that *does* keep track of state, such as the aggregating thing
[19:20] <gary_poster> then everything should work out fine
[19:20] <gary_poster> So, if the logging test result in testtools has no state
[19:21] <gary_poster> then it would be the closest analog
[19:21] <gary_poster> and our test should should show that the logging test result correctly is called with the proper add tags or remove tags
[19:22] <gary_poster> *with the subunit semantics*
[19:22] <gary_poster> so the real remaining question in my mind is this:
[19:22] <benji> gary_poster: so... that means that we should be able to strip out the stateful behavior in ThreadedForwarding<mumble>Result and our Worker<mumble>TestResult and all should be happy
[19:24] <gary_poster> benji, no, because they are responsible for maintaining the subunit behavior, in the current setup.  The only problem, and the question to which I alluded, is this: if these things implement subunit policy, why are they in testtools?
[19:24] <gary_poster> and they really should implement subunit policy for our use.  I'm pretty sure, though I'll want to try and convine you verbally when you are back together again to make sure I'm right
[19:24] <benji> good point, moving them might be the thing to do; have you checked to see if they're used elsewhere in testtools?
[19:24] <gary_poster> no, will look
[19:25] <benji> gary_poster: also there's the point that someone other than subunit might be using them and we'll be yanking them out from under them
[19:25] <gary_poster> yeah, benji.  doubtful IMO, but the concern is reasonable and proper.
[19:26]  * benji watches his laptop install 465 updated packages.
[19:28] <gary_poster> benji, ConcurrentTestSuite is the only thing that refers to ThreadsafeForwardingResult
[19:28] <gary_poster> in testtools
[19:28] <gary_poster> and probably anywhere :-)
[19:29] <gary_poster> I suspect that this is what will shake out:
[19:29] <benji> cool
[19:29] <gary_poster> - jml will tell us that he didn't initially have the idea of per-test tags
[19:29] <gary_poster> - jml will say that Robert added the idea
[19:30] <gary_poster> - jml will tell us that he wants to push that idea throughout testtools but hasn't gotten around to it
[19:30] <gary_poster> - we will be encouraged to add our new bits and bobs to testtools
[19:31] <gary_poster> - we will also be encouraged to fix up TestResults' tags, if we are up for it
[19:31] <gary_poster> For the short term, I think we can continue working in testtools
[19:31] <gary_poster> We should not touch the base TestResults
[19:31] <gary_poster> we should change the tests we've been writing to look at logs about the tags
[19:32] <gary_poster> We can then make an MP and raise the questions we have
[19:32] <benji> gary_poster: I think that'll work.  I'm going to reboot and rejoin the horde and we can commence on the above.
[19:32] <gary_poster> cool
[19:38]  * gary_poster back in a sec
[19:46] <benji___> gary_poster: I can hear you, but it looks like my virtual self fell asleep
[19:47] <gary_poster> benji___, :-) now you are no longer in room
[19:52] <benji> I think I'm back.
[19:55] <gary_poster> benji, I see you here but not in hangout.  talking to lifeless in -ops
[19:55] <gary_poster> benji, -dev :-)
[20:10] <benji> gary_poster: I'm going to do the simpler thing.
[20:11] <gary_poster> benji, cool.  +1
[20:32] <bac> gary_poster: i just had a quick chat with sean r., the python-memcached bug supervisor.  he said he's put the review on his 'short list' but is very busy.  i think tomorrow morning i'll prepare the fork.
[20:51] <bac> man, the juju-ers need to use pyflakes.  it's a mess out there
[20:51] <benji> heh
[20:51] <bac> and it would've highlighted the error i just had to chase down
[20:52] <gary_poster> bac, python-memcached: glad he is looking at it, but yes, good, +1 on fork.  We can add a card to "tracking" for this after we have the fork landed.
[20:52] <bac> gary_poster: yep
[20:53] <gary_poster> the go version of juju has linting built in
[20:54] <gary_poster> well, go has linting built in I mean
[20:54] <gary_poster> but I will miss being able to hack it and stick pdbs in it
[20:55] <gary_poster> even in the production instance
[21:00] <benji> yeah, I will definately miss pdb when working in a non-Python language


[10:28] <jester-> hi
[10:29] <niko> hi
[20:41] <ubot4> In #ubuntu-bugs, micahg said: !apport is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport


[22:28] <k1l_> wastrel > linux
[22:28] <k1l_> is that an insider joke?
[22:31] <bazhang> its wastrel, so deep inside


[04:08] <nigelb> Morning
[06:59] <paultag> night nigelb
[07:25] <dholbach> good morning
[08:09] <kim0> morning
[08:55] <czajkowski> paultag: wtf
[13:06] <akgraner> ara, answering your email now - sorry for the delay - our internet was down (due to you guessed it lightning) so now the new equipment is in and I am getting caught up...
[13:07] <ara> akgraner, no worries! thanks!
[13:13] <mhall119> morning akgraner, how's things?
[13:56] <czajkowski> jcastro: ping
[13:56] <jcastro> pong
[13:56] <czajkowski> jcastro: you were looking for me yesterday
[13:56] <jcastro> yeah I forgot what for
[13:57] <jcastro> oh, I was looking for pics from the loco team for the meetup
[13:57] <jcastro> but I found them
[13:57] <czajkowski> ah ok
[13:57] <czajkowski> if ye have more poke @ubuntuie to add them to the folder
[13:57] <czajkowski> jcastro: while you're there mind if i quickly pm you please
[13:57] <czajkowski> if yer free?
[13:57] <jcastro> sure
[13:58] <jcastro> gimme 5 to finish off mail
[13:58] <czajkowski> sure
[14:17] <jcastro> kim0: heh, I am talking to a guy at a university who deploys moodle
[14:17] <jcastro> he's asking about formulas
[14:17] <kim0> cool :)
[14:17] <kim0> hook him in
[14:18] <jcastro> heh yeah
[14:29] <jcastro> kim0: ok for next week
[14:29] <jcastro> the day before the meeting we'll send a note to ayatana-dev
[14:29] <jcastro> and we'll tweet
[14:29] <jcastro> that outta help
[15:31] <dholbach> hey jono
[15:32] <jcastro> bacon bacon bacon bacon
[15:33] <jcastro> mushrooms mushrooms!
[15:33] <jcastro> bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon
[15:33] <nigelb> ^ troll :P
[15:33]  * nigelb hugs jcastro
[15:48] <mhall119> lol
[15:52]  * AlanBell is off to Berlin next week
[15:53] <nigelb> AlanBell: DS?
[15:54] <AlanBell> http://www.odfplugfest.de/
[16:02] <jcastro> kim0: you're on ayatana-dev the mailing list right?
[16:04] <kim0> jcastro: checking
[16:04] <nigelb> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq8s-Rubs5w
[16:05] <nigelb> popey: I believe you talked about this on UUPC
[16:07] <kim0> jcastro: probably not, and can't find it on lists.u.c .. Is it a LP list ?
[16:08] <jcastro> yeah
[16:08] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev
[16:09] <kim0> I'm in
[16:11] <popey> haha nigelb
[16:12] <nigelb> popey: :)
[16:14] <dholbach> alright my friends - time to call it a day
[16:15] <dholbach> packaging guide rebranding got leaps forward today which makes me happy :)
[16:15] <dholbach> all thanks to Alexander Fougner
[16:18] <dholbach> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/103754/upg/index.html
[16:18] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone - see you tomorrow :)
[16:39] <jcastro> jono: lmk when you're out of inbox hell and in music mode: http://turntable.fm/ubuntuallstars
[16:39] <jono> cool
[16:39] <jono> :-)
[16:39] <jcastro> camp is spinning seriously brutal stuff
[16:45] <nigelb> jcastro: "We're very sorry, but while we would love to let you in and rock out with us, we need to currently restrict turntable access to only the United States due to licensing constraints. "
[17:08] <nhandler> /88/64
[19:14] <doctormo> paultag: ping
[19:14] <paultag> doctormo: pong
[19:14] <paultag> doctormo: what's up my man?
[19:14] <doctormo> paultag: That's you've not been to visit!
[19:14] <doctormo> paultag: Could I get you to set up the next Ubuntu Hour for MA?
[19:15] <paultag> doctormo: I know I know. I'm stuck down capeside, but I'm moving back to BOS and starting work at Boston College on the 18th, so I'll be more active
[19:15] <paultag> doctormo: yeah, no problem.
[19:15]  * doctormo gives paultag a hug
[19:15] <paultag> doctormo: I need to get myself moved back up and I'm ready to lock 'n load
[19:15]  * paultag hugs doctormo
[19:15] <doctormo> Can't wait to show you to computer lab, building a projector screen today
[19:16] <paultag> doctormo: nice!!! There's some kickass paint that has these tiny beads of glass that lets it rock as a screen
[19:16] <doctormo> cool, I have ceiling paint ;-)
[19:16] <paultag> :)
[19:17] <doctormo> The good part is that it's a 7500 lux projector, so you can easily see it even with the lights on.
[19:17] <paultag> doctormo: for sure :)
[19:17] <doctormo> against n orange wall.
[19:17] <paultag> hahahahaha, that's awesome
[19:18] <doctormo> I've also got several other labs in the network geering up to impliment Ubuntu too, so I'm happy but busy.