[12:59] <mdke> everning
[12:59] <Madpilot> afternoon
[01:00] <mdke> hi Madpilot
[01:01] <Madpilot> there's some really strange stuff in the wiki... Exhibit A: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkFeedback  ;)
[01:03] <mdke> looking
[01:04] <mdke> haha
[01:04] <mdke> that's the beauty of the old wiki
[01:05] <Madpilot> I'm tempted to just nuke that - "Too silly to exist" - but somebody might actually object...
[01:06] <mdke> Madpilot, no, the page seems to be intended by the artwork team for a proper purpose
[01:06] <mdke> the comment is a bit odd, but then again, some other comments might come
[01:07] <Madpilot> I guess - I'll leave it - it's just an odd comment...
[01:07] <mdke> heh
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/boot.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/logo.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/menu.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/play.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> gah
[02:13] <mdke> stupid goddam laptop
[02:55] <jsgotangco> hi all
[03:53] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia are you good with servers?
[03:53] <Burgundavia> not really had much experience with them
[03:54] <jsgotangco> for some reason all my users have access to each others' $home
[03:54] <Burgundavia> read only?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> well yes
[03:54] <Burgundavia> that is a not a bug
[03:54] <jsgotangco> but they shouldn't really be able to cd to /home/foo
[03:55] <Burgundavia> by default home directories are world readable
[03:55] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:55] <jsgotangco> that
[03:55] <Burgundavia> there are was a long thread about it about 2 months ago on ubuntu-devel
[03:55] <jsgotangco> that's not the case for hoary...
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hmmm so its a breezy thing...
[03:55] <jsgotangco> harry potter?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:56] <jsgotangco> oh home video
[04:08] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I think that the world readable is a longtime unix thing
[04:09] <dabaR> hey, um, just if you have time, check this out.
[04:10] <dabaR> http://dabar.selfip.org/synaptic.html
[04:10] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: no way
[04:11] <Burgundavia> dabaR, cool. Unfortunately the repo dialog is going to be totally redesigned for dapper
[04:11] <dabaR> so you told me.
[04:11] <dabaR> that is a good thing.
[04:11] <Burgundavia> mdke, ping
[04:11] <dabaR> k, later.
[04:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it is
[04:12] <Burgundavia> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-October/012404.html
[04:13] <Burgundavia> specifically --> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-October/012406.html
[04:17] <jsgotangco> sucks
[04:17] <jsgotangco> i'll just edit sshd_config then
[04:39] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille
[04:40] <robitaille> bonsoir Burgundavia
[04:44] <jsgotangco> hello robitaille
[04:44] <robitaille> Hi jsgotangco
[04:44] <Burgundavia> anybody know where i can find this background?
[04:44] <Burgundavia> http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/images/af/af-shot1.png
[04:45] <Burgundavia> the archive doesn't appear to have it anymore
[04:46] <robitaille> which month is it?  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/  seems to have debs of all the months
[04:46] <Burgundavia> those are not the images
[04:46] <Burgundavia> I just checked
[04:51] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  are you sure? I have downloaded the December file, and there are in there 2 jpg for that month; they are background 1600x1200 jpgs
[04:53] <robitaille> that background looks so familiar.  It  must have been one of the months...
[04:54] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  is it worth filing  a bug about a mistake in the default html for firefox in Edubuntu?  or these static start html are going the way of the dodo for dapper?
[04:55] <Burgundavia> ah, it is march
[04:55] <Burgundavia> the static html is going away
[04:55] <Burgundavia> for start.ubuntu.com
[04:59] <robitaille> but start.ubuntu.com is a general ubuntu page.  you probably want something a lot more specific (and maybe kid friendly) for Edubuntu
[04:59] <Burgundavia> sure
[05:00] <Burgundavia> but that is an edubuntu decision
[05:00] <Burgundavia> and kubuntu one
[05:00] <robitaille> thus back to my original question to jsgotangco  since he was the doc guy for edubuntu :)
[05:00] <Burgundavia> ah, I misread it, sorry
[05:02] <Burgundavia> robitaille, you updated your wiki page with for your laptop yet?
[05:03] <robitaille> I started.  I have updated the top LaptopTesting Page.  but haven't entered any dapper details yet in my subpage.  I was hoping to do it later tonight.  I have spent part of the day testing edubuntu with the kids :)
[05:04] <Burgundavia> I woke up at 5pm
[05:11] <jsgotangco> same here i just downloaded dapper last night but haven't started installing
[05:11] <robitaille> Burgundavia,   you know, sometimes I used to that.  Then I got married :)   I got up at 8:15am, and that was a very late morning for me :)
[05:11] <jsgotangco> its good practice to clean up the page early though
[05:12] <jsgotangco> i was surprised to see a milestone this early too
[05:12] <Burgundavia> that was the goal
[05:12] <Burgundavia> get one out as soon as possibly
[05:12] <Burgundavia> s/y/e
[05:13] <jsgotangco> i'm in irssi via ssh i can't scroll at all
[05:13] <Burgundavia> I haven't seen my gf all weekend, which is why I have been sleeping a lot
[05:14] <jsgotangco> ok so girlfriends are a bane to sane sleeping habits
[05:15] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  I was asking if you want a bug report for a small mistake in the static html for firefox in Edubuntu
[05:15] <jsgotangco> robitaille: sure
[05:16] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, i wish to discuss a small point regarding server guide, shall we ?
[05:16] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: sure let me move to a saner chat client...
[05:18] <jsgotangco> ok that's better :)
[05:18] <bhuvan> fine
[05:18] <bhuvan> can we make server guide part of kubuntu-docs too ?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> i'm sorry i haven't been able to do the minutes of the past meeting yet; i've been busy with some stuff especially with my upcoming talk in seoul
[05:19] <bhuvan> ok
[05:19] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, sure its just a matter of inclusion to the package...
[05:19] <bhuvan> ok, the reason is .. jjesse raised this point
[05:19] <jsgotangco> if you remember, there was a discussion about -common
[05:19] <jsgotangco> but that needs a lot of discussion
[05:20] <bhuvan> ok
[05:20] <jsgotangco> well in my opinion, a server guide has little need of gui tools unless the product has server gui tools
[05:21] <bhuvan> true
[05:30] <Burgundavia> ubuntu-server has no gui tools and never will
[05:31] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, its about people whou would like to use say Kubuntu for a server
[05:31] <Burgundavia> right
[05:32] <Burgundavia> but I think we should target our server guide at ubuntu-server
[05:32] <bhuvan> Burgundavia, true. but, it should not restrict the kubuntu user who wish to install a server application
[05:32] <Burgundavia> that is fine
[05:32] <Burgundavia> they can install by commandline
[05:33] <jsgotangco> i think its best to make the server guide as generic as possible
[05:33] <bhuvan> yeah, though we may provide instructions about other package manager in the beginning..
[05:33] <jsgotangco> the most generic you can get is via cli
[05:33] <Burgundavia> maybe we shoudl move the server guide to a top level folder of its own?
[05:33] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, talking about gui package management on in a serverguide is a bad thing
[05:34] <jsgotangco> unless you're RedHat
[05:34] <bhuvan> yeah!
[05:34] <Burgundavia> hence we talk about aptitude, apt-get, etc.
[05:34] <bhuvan> but, i've planned to give an introduction about all package manage in the beginning
[05:34] <Burgundavia> that is a bad thing, IMHO
[05:34] <bhuvan> i'll use apt-get through out the document
[05:34] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:35] <jsgotangco> if you even mention say synaptic
[05:35] <Burgundavia> why do you need to bother the user with talking about synaptic at the start if you use apt-get throughout?
[05:35] <jsgotangco> and the user decides to get it
[05:35] <jsgotangco> he'll be downloading the whole desktop again
[05:35] <bhuvan> also think this. what if he's installing a server application, say apache on the existing desktop (kubuntu or ubuntu) ?
[05:36] <bhuvan> he may feel free to use either synaptic/apt-get, its upto him
[05:36] <Burgundavia> so?
[05:36] <bhuvan> so, introduction about available packages may help
[05:36] <Burgundavia> talking about gui package stuff is a recipe for bad things
[05:36] <bhuvan> i'm not going to use synaptic/adept though in my document. i'm using apt-get
[05:36] <Burgundavia> and if they know how to install apache, they should already know how to use synaptic
[05:37] <bhuvan> Burgundavia, i understand
[05:37] <Burgundavia> hence we don't need to talk about it
[05:37] <jsgotangco> i think the main goal here is to make a server guide that is very friendly just like our starter guide
[05:37] <jsgotangco> but friendly meaning its cli-friendly and not complicated
[05:37] <Burgundavia> and friendly means we don't bait and switch
[08:36] <Burgundavia>
[08:36] <Burgundavia> Tenrec
[08:38] <jsgotangco> ?
[08:43] <Madpilot> Traumatized Tapir?
[08:47] <Madpilot> ...interesting... Creative Commons doesn't seem to have a simple CC-SA license - only CC-BY-SA or full Public Domain... too bad
[08:53] <Burgundavia> how about Oblivious Ocelet?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> Tanked Terrapin?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> Xenophobic Xenu?
[08:53] <Madpilot> wtf is a Xenu?
[08:54] <Burgundavia> think I should remove obiviously bad names?
[08:54] <Madpilot> "Xenu" would be a bad idea - 15 seconds of Googling shows that it's got something to do with Scientology
[08:54] <Burgundavia> Xebu, typo on my part
[08:56] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, you still have that java app floating around/
[08:56] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> the one that named GW something funny?
[08:57] <Madpilot> I think I've got a version of it, yeah
[08:57] <Madpilot> want to create a "name the next Ubuntu" version?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> indeed
[08:58] <Burgundavia> too bad java is non-free
[08:58] <Burgundavia> could we do a version with js
[08:58] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:59] <jsgotangco> for?
[08:59] <Burgundavia> random fun
[08:59] <jsgotangco> my cellphone uses java more than my computer
[09:00] <Burgundavia> the only java I have installed is the free stuff
[09:00] <Burgundavia> which incidentally doesn't run the only other java I have on my computer, a game I downloaded
[09:01] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: a pure-JavaScript version might be possible
[09:01] <jsgotangco> its more lucrative to do java on mobile phones now compared to desktop i guess
[09:01] <Madpilot> but it's made harder by the fact that the Ubuntu names always alliterate
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, what sort of policy do we want to have for people joining the LP team but have not generated useful work for us?
[09:59] <jsgotangco> good question
[09:59] <jsgotangco> well we did kick out 1 or 2 people i believe
[09:59] <Burgundavia> and the latest two I have not approved
[09:59] <jsgotangco> oh approval is easy
[09:59] <jsgotangco> deactivating is not
[10:00] <Burgundavia> shall I raise it on the mailing list
[10:00] <jsgotangco> since the team is now tied up with malone, it becomes a bit complicated
[10:00] <Burgundavia> I think it should be a group decision
[10:00] <jsgotangco> soon it'll become tied up with a package and a supermirror
[10:00] <Burgundavia> and wiki team is likely going to be tied to greater privs on the wiki as well
[10:01] <jsgotangco> oh i remember~
[10:01] <jsgotangco> we talked about the lp team during the meeting
[10:01] <Burgundavia> excellnt
[10:01] <Burgundavia> I was too tired to come, sorry
[10:01] <jsgotangco> other people were there like Riddell , jbailey, ogra, etc.
[10:01] <jsgotangco> they suggested that ubuntu-doc members should comprise approved ubuntu-members
[10:02] <jsgotangco> so basically if an ubuntu-member wants to join the doc, it'll be easier
[10:02] <Burgundavia> ah
[10:02] <Burgundavia> so they have to become a member before they can become a member of ubuntu-doc?
[10:02] <jsgotangco> its not really whitelisting, but its really safe to add to commit access and lp for ubuntu-members rather than those who aren't
[10:02] <jsgotangco> basically
[10:02] <jsgotangco> especially with commit privs
[10:03] <Burgundavia> ok, that seems fair
[10:03] <jsgotangco> it needs fleshing out the details though
[10:03] <jsgotangco> but we have a higher chance of better performance with an ubuntu-member rather than not
[10:03] <jsgotangco> (although it does leave out those who aren't into membership)
[10:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:04] <Burgundavia> but that is not a big deal I think
[10:04] <Burgundavia> but should they have to produce something for us before they are allowed to join?
[10:07] <jsgotangco> well come to think of it, any person who contributes to doc can easily be a member
[10:07] <jsgotangco> like bhuvan for example
[10:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:08] <jsgotangco> so if he's already an ubuntu-member, we can just easily add him to -doc
[10:08] <jsgotangco> and it makes it easier to justify to elmo svn access
[10:08] <jsgotangco> because a.) he's approved
[10:09] <jsgotangco> b.) he's signed the CoC
[10:09] <Burgundavia> but several of the pending members have not producing anything useful for the team that I can see
[10:09] <jsgotangco> we can probably tell them to contribute something first...
[10:09] <Burgundavia> in other words, should applying for membership and being an ubuntu-member be enough to give you membership to ubuntu-doc?
[10:10] <jsgotangco> well ok that's a good question
[10:10] <jsgotangco> how does MOTU do it?
[10:10] <Burgundavia> anyboyd can upload to REVU
[10:10] <Burgundavia> to become a member of MOTU, you need technical board approval
[10:11] <Burgundavia> they are not really a valid example in this case
[10:11] <Burgundavia> but no other team is really big enough yet
[10:11] <Burgundavia> art is too new, marketing doesn't exist, nun is dead
[10:11] <Burgundavia> wiki is too new
[10:11] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:12] <jsgotangco> i don't want to see our position as unique as with other teams but we do have certain upload privs which needs consideration
[10:12] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:12] <bhuvan> .. should i've to apply for ubuntu membership ?
[10:13] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, you have enough, IMHO, to apply for ubuntu-membership now
[10:13] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:13] <Burgundavia> and the next CC meeting to 2 days from now
[10:13] <bhuvan> ok. i'll add my name for membership then
[10:13] <bhuvan> yeah
[10:14] <Burgundavia> I like the idea of asking people to produce something before they ask for membership to ubuntu-docs
[10:15] <Burgundavia> just as we have been doing up until now
[10:16] <jsgotangco> well yes, it doesn't change anything
[10:16] <Burgundavia> yes, it just codifies what is there
[10:16] <Burgundavia> in case either of us drop off the planet
[10:16] <jsgotangco> imo, membership is just an incentive/reward for contribution
[10:23] <Burgundavia> nor do I
[10:24] <Burgundavia> night
[12:05] <Madpilot> do programs in Universe get bug-reported to Launchpad or Bugzilla.u.c?
[03:07] <jjesse> what was the command to build the desktop guide again, left that email at home :(
[03:07] <bhuvan> dg-C ?
[03:08] <bhuvan> i meant 'make dg-C'
[03:10] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:16] <jjesse> thanks bhuvan
[03:16] <jjesse> morning jsgotangco
[03:18] <jsgotangco> morning =)
[03:19] <bhuvan> jjesse, ok
[03:20] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, when're you leaving to seoul ? how long you'll be in seoul ?
[03:20] <Belutz> jsgotangco, hi
[03:20] <jsgotangco> just 4 days
[03:21] <jsgotangco> hey Belutz how's things?
[03:21] <Belutz> i got flu :(
[03:21] <jsgotangco> Belutz: i pray its not bird flu :P
[03:21] <Belutz> jsgotangco, no it's not :)
[03:21] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:22] <bhuvan> night all
[03:22] <Belutz> hmm, the debian conference commitee could give 30 minutes slot
[03:22] <jsgotangco> haha dude i can't fly with that short notice
[03:22] <Belutz> ok :)
[03:23] <jsgotangco> Belutz: hey you can speak in behalf of ubuntu anyways
[03:23] <Belutz> maybe next time :)
[03:23] <Belutz> hmm, i'm not ready yet
[03:23] <jsgotangco> when will that be?
[03:23] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:24] <Belutz> after, i'm no longer a newbie :-)
[03:36] <jsgotangco> im going back later
[03:36] <jsgotangco> brb
[04:51] <jsgotangco> re
[05:03] <jsgotangco> good night
[07:10] <mdke> gah
[07:11] <mdke> Riddell, you have to be patient
[07:11] <Riddell> ah yes, just very slow
[07:11] <Riddell> the stylesheets on e.g. http://help.ubuntu.com/kde/krelease-notes/C/index.html don't really work
[07:11] <Riddell> well, they arn't there
[07:12] <Riddell> can you update it use those three docs from trunk?
[07:12] <mdke> yes
[07:13] <mdke> Riddell, i used a kde stylesheet for those tho, was it a different one?
[07:13] <Riddell> mdke: I think you used the one sean made up, in trunk we're now using the ones from KDE docs
[07:15] <mdke> i used one which was packaged in kdelibs-data
[07:16] <mdke> Riddell, anyhow when I get home I'll look at it
[09:58] <mdke> Riddell, yo?
[10:04] <Riddell> mdke: hmm?
[10:05] <mdke> Riddell, can you walk me through what is going down with the -html and -web targets in the Makefile? last time I looked there was just -web
[10:06] <Riddell> mdke: -web is for the web, -html is offline html and normal target is offline .bz2 of html
[10:06] <mdke> Riddell, ok so you have changed the stylesheets for -web and added -html?
[10:18] <Riddell> yes
[10:19] <mdke> Riddell, ok, and how does -html work? i see it uses meinproc rather than xslproc, and i don't see the stylesheets
[10:19] <Riddell> mdke: it uses the default KDE stylesheet
[10:19] <mdke> Riddell, does meinproc just know that automatically?
[10:20] <Riddell> mdke: seems to yes
[10:20] <mdke> right
[10:20] <mdke> we'll have to update some of the docs to tell people to install meinproc
[10:20] <mdke> it's not on my system
[10:20] <Riddell> it should be in the package build-deps
[10:21] <mdke> Riddell, i don't see that package
[10:21] <Riddell> kubuntu-docs
[10:21] <mdke> ah i see
[10:21] <Riddell> what I havn't worked out is how i18n works
[10:22] <mdke> ok
[10:22] <mdke> Riddell, fire away
[10:22] <Riddell> umm, nothing to fire, I don't know how it works in ubuntu-docs
[10:23] <mdke> Riddell, we make pot file templates from the xml, upload them to rosetta, download the po files, change them back to xml
[10:23] <mdke> i would suggest using the same system for (k)(ed)ubuntu l10n
[10:24] <Riddell> when are they uploaded and when are they downloaded?
[10:25] <Riddell> and who's going to set this up for dapper?
[10:25] <mdke> Riddell, we upload them after string freeze, and download them before the translation freeze. And I intend to do an update for breezy too
[10:25] <mdke> Riddell, i can do it
[10:26] <Riddell> aah
[10:26] <Riddell> where do the translations go?  into ubuntu-docs?
[10:27] <mdke> Riddell, yes, although jbailey wanted to talk about language-packs. But now he's no longer with us, I'm thinking that won't happen
[10:28] <Riddell> I think dholbach will do it
[10:29] <Riddell> you just ship the .xml file, doesn't that take a long time to covert to HTML when viewing?
[10:29] <mdke> it will be very difficult I think
[10:29] <mdke> Riddell, in gnome yelp is the viewer, it reads xml directly. although it is a bit sluggish
[10:29] <mdke> brb
[10:47] <mdke> back
[11:01] <mdke> jjesse, around?
[11:05] <mdke> damn you!


[02:15] <mup> PR operator#856 opened: Reinstate reversion of add_relation_unit ValueError to warning <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/856>
[03:33] <mup> Issue operator#857 opened: [juju secrets] Not able to retrieve a new secret in same execution hook <Created by hemanthnakkina> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/857>
[03:44] <mup> Issue operator#858 opened: [juju secrets] Secret created with existing label does not throw an error <Created by hemanthnakkina> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/858>
[20:47] <mup> PR operator#855 closed: Add JujuVersion.has_secrets() <Created by beliaev-maksim> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/855>
[20:56] <mup> Issue operator#839 closed: Need a way to abort charm execution <Created by PietroPasotti> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/839>
[20:56] <mup> PR operator#845 closed: add abort method to Framework <Created by beliaev-maksim> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/845>


[02:51] <tsimonq2> Seems like four of the riscv64 builders have been cleaning for 12+ hours, and the queue is pretty large at the moment. It would be great if someone could poke those :)
[12:36] <cjwatson> arraybolt3: ppc64el was made unrestricted in like 2016 or something
[12:36] <cjwatson> tsimonq2: poking
[12:37] <cjwatson> (the situation on other architectures is worse TBH, but dealing with that will need an SRE to poke at OpenStack so I'm not going to attempt that at the weekend)


[02:56] <stgraber> utlemming: hey, you appear to be missing a few test results for the cloud images on iso.qa.ubuntu.com, are you missing some of the regions in your script?
[03:45] <stgraber> Riddell, ScottK, zequence, knome, highvoltage, JackYu, utlemming: Sorry, I've been pretty busy with non-beta1 stuff so haven't had a chance to draft the announcement yet. I'll do so tomorrow morning and share it with you. Please make sure to have your links ready by then. It'd also be appreciated if you could get the products you intend to release as Ready on the tracker (or ask me if you can't do it yourself).
[04:34] <JackYu> stgraber: got it.
[06:49] <JackYu> stgraber: the announcement of ubuntukylin could be set to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin/1304-beta-1-ReleaseNote
[08:12] <highvoltage> stgraber: the current edubuntu images look good for beta release, I'm marking as ready
[09:23] <Laney> hi cjohnston
[09:23] <Laney> contentful pings work better in general :-)
[09:49] <smartboyhw> Can I ask: Where is the Ubuntu Studio Beta 1 release notes in?
[10:30] <smartboyhw> And release team: Can the Ubuntu Studio release team remove all the upgrade testcases by this stage?
[10:30] <smartboyhw> First "release team" = The main Ubuntu one
[10:38] <tumbleweed> there is only one release team :)
[10:39] <smartboyhw> tumbleweed, em stgraber helped many flavours set up their own release management teams for their OWN flavours in the ISO QA Tracker:P
[10:40] <smartboyhw> And BTW just asking my original question...
[10:57] <highvoltage> stgraber: you asked for news links, the edubuntu one will be http://www.edubuntu.org/news/13.04-beta1
[11:05] <cjohnston> Laney: thanks for the reply on the bug.
[11:05] <Laney> np
[11:06] <cjohnston> I commented my specific reason for wanting it. :-)
[11:16] <xnox> Laney: looks like that failed-to-boot bug is fixed by pitti.
[11:16] <Laney> yes
[11:16] <xnox> Laney: when will raring-proposed be unblocked?
[11:16] <xnox> Laney: or can we still be respinning?
[11:16] <Laney> some time after the point of no return
[11:17]  * smartboyhw wonders can he actually remove the upgrades
[11:18] <Laney> the testcases?
[11:18] <smartboyhw> Laney, yep (for Ubuntu Studio)
[11:19] <smartboyhw> Just wondering if it is too late
[11:19] <Laney> why do you need to?
[11:20] <zequence> smartboyhw: All tests are done now
[11:20] <smartboyhw> zequence, the upgrades?
[11:20] <smartboyhw> Wow:)
[11:20] <zequence> smartboyhw: Not the upgrades
[11:20] <smartboyhw> zequence, ah OK
[11:21] <smartboyhw> Laney, um 1. We don't recommend it, 2. Not enough testers (at all times)
[11:21] <Laney> I don't think you need to remove them just because nobody has done them yet
[11:21] <smartboyhw> Laney, well but we don't actually recommend it as we said
[11:21] <Laney> you'll see Lubuntu and Edubuntu are in the same state
[11:22] <Laney> you don't recommend upgrading?!
[11:22] <smartboyhw> Laney, yep
[11:22] <smartboyhw> zequence, am I correct?:P
[11:23] <zequence> We haven't put any time on investigating the problems around upgrading
[11:23] <smartboyhw> yep
[11:23] <zequence> From my personal experience, it's not a flawless experience
[11:23] <smartboyhw> Can't we just remove it for Beta 1 at least?
[11:24] <zequence> So, since we have no data, and no actions against any bugs that might appear, we should not recommend upgrading
[11:24] <xnox> zequence: i think you can just mark image as ready with or without upgrade tests, if you are happy to release that.
[11:24] <zequence> However, for any release after raring, it would be wise to do some research on this
[11:24] <smartboyhw> zequence, I think I am OK marking it ready now:)
[11:24] <zequence> smartboyhw: Yep. Fine by me
[11:25] <smartboyhw> xnox, ACK from zequence + me:)
[11:27] <smartboyhw> OK zequence I marked them as ready now:)
[11:28] <zequence> smartboyhw: ok
[11:29] <smartboyhw> zequence, so do we still want the upgrade testcases for beta 1 ONLY?
[11:29] <zequence> I think we can remove it for now. Perhaps we do have some time to do it before final beta. That might be worth the effort
[11:30] <smartboyhw> zequence, OK:)
[11:30] <smartboyhw> zequence, removed
[11:31] <Laney> IMO it would be a good thing to do for your users, even if just to document the bugs
[11:31] <Laney> you'll not get everyone reinstalling
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Laney, well I think they wouldn't upgrade now anyway:P
[11:31] <smartboyhw> And we can fix it before Beta 2
[11:32] <Laney> not right now, but in general
[11:32] <zequence> I agree on finding bugs
[11:32] <knome> is the "auto-resize" option supposed to be dropped?
[11:32] <knome> or do you need non-ubuntu installation on the disk before the installer suggests that?
[11:33] <JackYu> Laney: I updated the diff file of bug #1154999.
[11:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1154999 in ubuntukylin-default-settings (Ubuntu) " [FFE] Upgrade to ubuntukylin-default-settings 1.0.2 in Raring " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154999
[11:33] <smartboyhw> knome, you mean Ubuntu Studio or?
[11:33] <knome> i mean generally.
[11:33] <smartboyhw> Um no I think
[11:33]  * smartboyhw saw it in UbuntuKylin
[11:34] <cjwatson> knome: auto-resize is only offered in some circumstances, which are a bit complex to fit into an IRC channel
[11:34] <knome> cjwatson, is there any documentation for it anywhere?
[11:34] <cjwatson> knome: among other things, the MBR partition table format is sufficiently lame that it's simply not always possible to offer it
[11:34] <cjwatson> I don't recall
[11:34] <knome> okay
[11:35] <cjwatson> The short answer is that it shouldn't be considered a testing bug if you don't get it
[11:35] <cjwatson> I thought there was something somewhere in the testcase docs but it's been a while ...
[11:35] <knome> that stops me from running that test then
[11:35] <cjwatson> Yes, it would
[11:35] <knome> but i'll make a mental note to not worry about that too much
[11:35] <cjwatson> But realistically it's probably good enough if it's run on at least one flavour for the relevant ubiquity frontend
[11:35] <knome> i'll just test other things, like upgrades
[11:37] <cjwatson> ISO testers tend to run into the limitations more than most - for example they stand a greater chance of already having four primary partitions, or not being able to get an extended partition into the area that would be freed by resize because there's already an extended partition elsewhere and the area in question is separated from it by a primary partition
[11:37] <cjwatson> MBR constraints are pretty silly
[11:37] <knome> mhm.
[11:42] <JackYu> cjwatson: would you please add '--locale zh_CN' when building UbuntuKylin?
[11:45] <cjwatson> Not quite that simple - that's an ubuntu-defaults-image option and UbuntuKylin isn't built using ubuntu-defaults-image
[11:46] <cjwatson> What exact change are you trying to effect?
[11:48] <JackYu> after entering the try or install show, the default language is English. we want it be Simplifed Chinese
[11:48] <knome> stgraber, do you have an estimate of the time you're going to release?
[11:48] <cjwatson> JackYu: Right, gfxboot default language.  Sure, I can do that
[11:48] <cjwatson> (I thought that was probably it but wanted to confirm)
[11:49] <JackYu> good, thanks.
[11:54] <cjwatson> JackYu_: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/revision/675
[11:54] <cjwatson> (uploaded)
[11:56] <JackYu_> correct
[12:48] <JackYu> cjwatson: we reported two FFE bugs to update ubuntukylin-default-settings and ubuntukylin-theme, i.e. bug #1154999, bug #1154988, would you please help to check them?
[12:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1154999 in ubuntukylin-default-settings (Ubuntu) " [FFE] Upgrade to ubuntukylin-default-settings 1.0.2 in Raring " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154999
[12:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1154988 in ubuntukylin-theme (Ubuntu) " [FFE] Upgrade to ubuntukylin-theme 0.4.2 in Raring " [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154988
[12:53] <ScottK> JackYu: They are both approved.
[12:56] <JackYu> ScottK: great, thanks!
[13:15] <ScottK> FYI, unblocked muon since the current one is badly broken.  Waiting to hear from Riddell to see if we'll respin for it.
[13:22] <stgraber> knome: I'm hoping for a release in the next 4 hours or so
[13:22] <knome> stgraber, ok. i'm just running the upgrade tests. desktop amd64 can be marked ready.
[13:23] <knome> (i still need to run one little test on i386, will do that once the i386 upgrade tests finishes)
[13:26] <Riddell> ScottK: in the middle of an upgrade, should be able to test in a wee bit
[13:26] <ScottK> OK.
[13:46] <Riddell> stgraber: so aye, we'd like a respin of kubuntu i386 and amd64 when muon 1.9.97 is in the archive
[13:53] <stgraber> Riddell: ok
[13:58] <stgraber> JackYu: hey, are you expecting to have something to release for beta1 (in around 3 hours)? looking at the tracker, it looks like you haven't got a lot of test results and those you have look pretty bad
[14:01] <JackYu> stgraber: we are updating packages. Currently, only one left.
[14:01] <cjwatson> It was maybe a bit ambitious to do a beta a couple of days after starting daily builds :)
[14:02] <smartboyhw> That's why Ubuntu GNOME didn't join in the fun:)
[14:02] <stgraber> JackYu: ok, so you are planning a last minute respin? (note that it takes around 30min to do a rebuild and may take an hour for the bits you need to publish in the archive, so you'd be left with just a bit over an hour to test it all)
[14:02] <JackYu> correct:)
[14:03] <JackYu> stgraber: yes:)
[14:03] <ScottK> stgraber and JackYu: I've also put a transition block on the updated packages you put in an FFe for.  If those are needed, they will need an unblock.
[14:03] <ScottK> default settins and theme ...
[14:05] <stgraber> ScottK: ok, sounds to me like they want those in as the current images don't look too good. Can you remove your block or do you prefer me to add an explicit unblock?
[14:05] <JackYu> I'am asking Zhengpeng Hou to upload,  and the default-settings in ready.
[14:05] <ScottK> stgraber: I put it in your block (for consistency).  I can remove it.
[14:06] <stgraber> ScottK: ah ok, probably best to keep it there so we have it next time and just add an explicit unblock then
[14:06] <stgraber> ScottK: I'll take care of that
[14:06] <stgraber> (just noticed ubuntukylin-theme hitting raring-changes)
[14:06] <ScottK> OK.
[14:07] <ScottK> That's why I added it to your block, so we'd have it in the history to start from.
[14:08] <stgraber> JackYu: so what packages do you need updated? (I need to whitelist them)
[14:09] <freeflying> stgraber: ubuntukylin-theme ubuntukylin-default-settings, chinese-calenda, just uploaded
[14:09] <stgraber> freeflying: ok good, that matches what I saw on -changes, thanks
[14:09] <JackYu> stgraber: Zhengpeng just done
[14:09] <freeflying> stgraber: np
[14:09] <stgraber> JackYu: so should I respin as soon as those 3 are in raring?
[14:10] <JackYu> stgraber: yes
[14:10] <JackYu> thanks
[14:10] <JackYu> it should be ok, since we tested them locally:)
[14:11] <stgraber> Riddell: looks like muon has now been published. Triggering a kubuntu desktop respin
[14:11] <Riddell> stgraber: groovy
[14:11] <ScottK> stgraber: Nice.  I was just typing a ping that you could do that.
[14:12] <utlemming> Ubuntu Cloud Images are ready to go.
[14:14] <stgraber> utlemming: ok. Can you mark them as such? (I "think" you now have the rights)
[14:15] <utlemming> stgraber: looks like arosales is still the man for that
[14:15] <JackYu> stgraber: would you please give our release team (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntukylin-release-team/) rights on the ISO QA Tracker?
[14:16] <stgraber> JackYu: yep, I'll do that in a bit
[14:16] <arosales> utlemming: is this for the release manifest
[14:17] <stgraber> utlemming: aren't you in ~cloud-images-release-managers?
[14:17] <utlemming> stgraber: yup, I am
[14:17] <stgraber> utlemming: if so, you should be able to tick them on the tracker and mark them ready
[14:17] <cjwatson> arosales: the release manifest has been superseded by new facilities on iso.qa.ubuntu.com, FYI
[14:17] <stgraber> utlemming: hmm, or maybe not, let me triple-check the ACLs
[14:17] <arosales> cjohnston: ah, thanks
[14:18] <stgraber> utlemming: the ACLs look good, so it should work
[14:19] <utlemming> stgraber: I don't see anyway to mark ready. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong spot.
[14:20] <stgraber> utlemming: do you see tick boxes on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds?
[14:20] <utlemming> stgraber: negative, I do not.
[14:20] <stgraber> utlemming: ah. Try to logout and login, making sure that the cloud-images-release-managers team is selected on the SSO page
[14:24] <knome> stgraber, xubuntu i386 is ready.
[14:26] <xnox> infinity: i'd appreciate for lvm2 precise SRU to be published, as I have another one comming up.
[14:27] <utlemming> stgraber: after logging in an out a couple times, i only see test boxes on the tests.
[14:27] <xnox> infinity: about openssl, it was inconclusive if Rob has any further testing of all and each asm enabled hash algo.
[14:28] <stgraber> utlemming: yeah, according to the DB, the tracker didn't receive the team membership from SSO...
[14:28] <stgraber> utlemming: what do you see on the SSO page, does it list team membership?
[14:29] <utlemming> stgraber: the SSO page didn't ask about membership
[14:30]  * arosales also doesn't see any checkboxes @ http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds
[14:30] <stgraber> utlemming: can you add the "ubuntuqa" account to the team on LP? that's my test account when debugging that kind of weirdness
[14:31] <utlemming> stgraber: done. login/logout yields same results
[14:33] <stgraber> utlemming: ok, I'll test in a sec
[14:34] <stgraber> Riddell, ScottK: there you go ^
[14:34] <knome> stgraber, xubuntu i386 upgrades are ready.
[14:34] <ScottK> stgraber: Thanks.
[14:37] <JackYu> stgraber: is the rights of ubuntukylin-release-team set?
[14:37] <stgraber> JackYu: no
[14:38] <JackYu> I see:)
[14:39] <JackYu> stgraber: all packages are ready, would you please  rebuild ubuntukylin?
[14:40] <stgraber> JackYu: they're not ready
[14:40] <stgraber> JackYu: they've been uploaded but they aren't done building and publishing
[14:40] <stgraber> JackYu: I expect them to be in 30min or so
[14:41] <JackYu> oh, i see
[14:45] <JackYu> hi all, 我要回家去了，到家后上线，路上大概二十分钟，如果这期间stgraber有问题，先帮我回答一下
[14:45]  * Laney blinks
[14:45] <cjwatson> JackYu: wrong channel ...
[14:45] <JackYu> sorry, wrong channel
[14:46] <JackYu> :(
[14:47] <stgraber> utlemming: ok, it's going to take me a little while to figure out what's going on. I'll just mark your products as ready for now ;)
[14:47] <utlemming> stgraber: ack and thank you
[14:48] <stgraber> utlemming: my guess is that there's some kind of limit in the number of team membership we can retrieve from LP and as the tracker is asking for a dozen or so, we may be hitting that limit
[15:13] <knome> stgraber, xubuntu amd64 upgrades are done. and you probably want to look at bug 1155167
[15:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1155167 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from image prompts creating a new user" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155167
[15:14] <stgraber> knome: do you know where you'll be posting the beta1 announcement?
[15:15] <stgraber> Riddell, ScottK, zequence, utlemming: you too ^ (I only have the URLs for edubuntu and kylin at the moment)
[15:15] <knome> stgraber, i'll get that to you in the next 15 minutes (i'll need to write one first)
[15:15] <stgraber> knome: ok
[15:16] <utlemming> stgraber: B1 annoucnements for cloud images will not be happen. They are silent releases as a data-point for reference.
[15:16] <stgraber> utlemming: ok
[15:16] <smartboyhw> stgraber, I will try to draft up one...
[15:17] <smartboyhw> zequence is bb for a couple of hours
[15:17] <JackYu> stgraber:  we prepare a simple notes for ubuntukylin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin/1304-beta-1-ReleaseNote
[15:18] <Riddell> stgraber: voila https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RaringRingtail/Beta1/Kubuntu
[15:19] <stgraber> Riddell: thanks
[15:19] <smartboyhw> stgraber, release notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/Beta1/UbuntuStudio Annoucement: http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/ubuntu-studio-13-04-beta-1-released/
[15:19] <utlemming> stgraber: I mis-spoke. I'll get the URL for you shortly
[15:19] <stgraber> utlemming: ok
[15:19] <stgraber> smartboyhw: thanks
[15:21] <ScottK> Sigh.
[15:21] <ScottK> I guess when we said we were going to be strict about FFe approval because we moved feature freeze later, no one really believed us.
[15:22] <Laney> The message will get through
[15:22] <tumbleweed> the excuses have been amusing
[15:23] <tumbleweed> apparently 2 days of vUDS delayed everyone by a week
[15:23] <stgraber> yeah, I'm really annoyed by it... we warned them and we moved the FF to allow for more dev time, so allowing any big feature to land now is more dangerous than ever...
[15:23] <stgraber> tumbleweed: or more, look at the Unity one, it's a whole month for them :)
[15:23] <ScottK> Personally, it appears to me that everyone assumed Rick's proposal would be approved and started operating to it.
[15:23] <tumbleweed> stgraber: yeah. and of course they should have been aiming for 2 weeks before FF anyway :P
[15:28] <knome> stgraber, will there some other url or is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20130311.1/ the "official" beta link?
[15:28] <smartboyhw> cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/13.04/beta-1 I think
[15:28] <stgraber> right, after publishing the images will be under releases/13.04/...
[15:28] <knome> ok! :)
[15:29] <cjwatson> knome: yes, never permanently link to .../daily-live/DATE/, they get removed after a few days!
[15:29] <knome> cjwatson, yeah, sure. thanks :)
[15:30] <stgraber> do we have anyone from Lubuntu around here?
[15:30] <smartboyhw> stgraber, Lubuntu -> phillw
[15:30] <stgraber> phillw: hey, do you have an URL to the beta1 announcement for Lubuntu?
[15:31] <stgraber> phillw: also, do you have any product that should be marked as ready for release now?
[15:31] <smartboyhw> phillw, you do know that Beta 1 is to be released in 1.5 HOURS not 24!?
[15:32] <phillw> stgraber: soz, been afk.
[15:32] <phillw> I thought deadline was tomorrow. let me have a look
[15:33] <stgraber> ??? we've always been releasing on Thursday
[15:33] <smartboyhw> ...
[15:33] <Laney> did "Status tracked in Raring" go away?
[15:34] <phillw> stgraber: just me having a 'blonde' moment... My days are a bit messed up this week :D
[15:34] <xnox> phillw: Thursday UTC time has always been the case. As releasing on Friday is impractical as it's the weekend for many people on the east side towards datetime line.
[15:34] <smartboyhw> phillw, now you really need testers:P
[15:35] <TheLordOfTime> smartboyhw, you should consider NOT crossposting the "we need testers!" thing across multiple channels
[15:37] <phillw> stgraber: I'm happy with: Alternate AMD64, Alternate i386, Desktop AMD64, Desktop PPC
[15:37] <phillw> the others can stay as daily spin (i.e. no beta 1 release).
[15:38] <knome> stgraber, xubuntu b1 release annoucement will be at http://xubuntu.org/news/raring-beta1
[15:38] <knome> stgraber, will there be a "general" wiki page as usually?
[15:38] <smartboyhw> TheLordOfTime, the one in this channel is targetted "only" to phillw
[15:38] <smartboyhw> That one is to everyone
[15:39] <stgraber> knome: I don't think we had a general wiki page for the past two opt-in milestones so I'm not planning on making one.
[15:39] <utlemming> stgraber: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/Beta1/UbuntuCloudImages
[15:40] <stgraber> knome: I'll prepare a standard announcement and have it go to the usual mailing-lists, get it picked up on fridge/planet ubuntu and release blog
[15:40] <knome> stgraber, ok, thanks fine :) just checking if i need to point to some place
[15:40] <stgraber> utlemming: thanks
[15:41] <stgraber> who marked Kylin ready?
[15:41] <smartboyhw> stgraber, that's the question...
[15:41] <stgraber> because it clearly isn't, they haven't got the respin yet
[15:41] <smartboyhw> I and JackYu are mystified
[15:42] <stgraber> balloons: why did you mark UbuntuKylin as ready?
[15:42] <smartboyhw> balloons, .....
[15:42]  * stgraber marks them for respin
[15:42] <JackYu> yes, we need the respin:)
[15:43] <stgraber> yeah, waiting for your new packages to get copied, that should happen this publisher run, then they should be ready in the next, then we can respin
[15:44] <stgraber> hmm, hold on, there's something weird going on with britney
[15:44] <cjwatson> oh?
[15:44] <smartboyhw> uh oh
[15:44] <stgraber> cjwatson: the report was last updated at 14:06
[15:44] <cjwatson> one moment
[15:45] <cjwatson> stgraber: you need versions on your unblocks
[15:46] <cjwatson> its failure mode is entertainingly terrible if you forget those
[15:46] <stgraber> oops, fixing...
[15:47] <JackYu> oh...
[15:47] <cjwatson> tell me when and I'll rerun manually
[15:47] <stgraber> fixed
[15:47] <cjwatson> running
[15:48] <cjwatson> logs are in lillypilly:~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/ for the record
[15:48] <cjwatson> I should get round to making those web-accessible too
[15:49] <stgraber> cjwatson: ah, good to know. I should have looked at the timestamp earlier and notice that I messed up something in my hints
[15:50] <cjwatson> stgraber: all three copied; you just need to wait for the publisher now
[15:50] <stgraber> cjwatson: perfect, thanks
[15:50] <stgraber> JackYu: I'll trigger your rebuild in the next 30min (as soon as the publisher is done)
[15:51] <JackYu> sure, thank you. We're waiting for it.
[15:59] <knome> stgraber, when you release, will you also ping pleia2? thanks.
[16:00] <knome> stgraber, i got to run now. thanks for everything! :)
[16:00] <stgraber> knome: ok, will do. bye
[16:10] <JackYu> stgraber: seems all 3 packages are ready
[16:11] <stgraber> no
[16:11] <stgraber> they've been copied but not published yet
[16:11] <stgraber> should happen any minute though
[16:12] <JackYu> i see
[16:14] <JackYu> BTW, could you set our release team the rights:)
[16:14] <stgraber> it takes time and I'm busy trying to get this thing out, so not now
[16:15] <JackYu> sure, it's ok
[16:17] <stgraber> ScottK, Riddell, highvoltage, phillw, zequence, knome, pleia2, JackYu, utlemming: Draft of the announcement: http://pad.ubuntu.com/raring-beta1-announcement
[16:23] <ScottK> stgraber: I marked on it a bit.  Seems good.
[16:24] <highvoltage> stgraber: what will the URL for that be?
[16:24] <highvoltage> (would like to link to it)
[16:27] <stgraber> highvoltage: some URL under lists.ubuntu.com. That's an e-mail announcement
[16:27] <highvoltage> ok
[16:28] <highvoltage> stgraber: are you also taking care of moving the cd image to the right place on the cdimage host?
[16:29] <JackYu> stgraber: it's pretty. thank you.
[16:29] <zequence> stgraber: Looks good to me, thanks
[16:30] <stgraber> highvoltage: yep, once kylin has been respun, tested and is ready to get published
[16:32] <Riddell> it's ready!
[16:32] <stgraber> JackYu: respin in progress for kylin
[16:32] <JackYu> nice
[16:34] <highvoltage> Riddell: ^5
[16:36] <phillw> stgraber: I have only just started on a draft for lubuntu beta 1, it will be completed today if you want me to add the link into the etherpad and mark the page up as 'Still in Progress'?
[16:40] <yofel> Riddell: you can mark our upgrades as ready too if it matters
[16:42] <pleia2> stgraber: thanks, just made a tiny edit to xubuntu url
[16:43] <stgraber> JackYu: the build failed
[16:44] <pleia2> oops, no it was correct
[16:44]  * pleia2 coffee now
[16:45] <JackYu> oh, may i take a look the log?
[16:46] <stgraber> P: Begin executing hooks...
[16:46] <stgraber> ./config/hooks/100-default-language.binary: 3: ./config/hooks/100-default-language.binary: cannot create binary/isolinux/lang: Directory nonexistent
[16:46] <stgraber> E: config/hooks/100-default-language.binary failed (exit non-zero). You should check for errors.
[16:46] <stgraber> P: Begin unmounting filesystems...
[16:47] <Laney> sounds like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/134156070/livecd-rootfs_2.112_2.113.diff.gz
[16:48] <stgraber> yep
[16:48] <stgraber> apparently we are missing livecd-rootfs in the block list...
[16:48] <stgraber> cjwatson: ^
[16:51] <JackYu> yes, if that's the problem, please remove it.
[16:52] <cjwatson> stgraber: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/TechnicalOverview - skeleton draft
[16:52] <cjwatson> JackYu: removing it isn't the answer - I'll fix it
[16:53] <cjwatson> (unless you think having no build script is better!)
[16:53] <JackYu> nice, thanks:)
[16:53] <stgraber> JackYu: how long will it take you to test the images once you have them?
[16:53] <cjwatson> hmm - of course I will have to *revert* that because I was stupid.  this should never have been done in livecd-rootfs in the first place
[16:53] <JackYu> ten minutes
[16:54] <cjwatson> belongs in cdimage/debian-cd
[16:55]  * cjwatson <- idiot
[16:55] <stgraber> JackYu: ok. I'll wait till 19:00 UTC then release whatever is ready at the time. I'm not willing to delay beta1 any more than that.
[16:55] <JackYu> stgraber: OK
[16:56]  * ogra_ points cjwatson to the code of conduct ... we dont call people idiots in here
[16:56] <ogra_> :)
[16:56] <highvoltage> ScottK: heh, I also don't think it's very polite to change a bug status if you're not a release manager on a release bug
[16:57] <JackYu> cjwatson: thanks.
[16:58] <Riddell> yofel: oops I removed them instead, la la
[16:58] <stgraber> Riddell: I'll fix that
[16:59] <cjwatson> ogra_: if I'm offended I shall complain about myself :)
[16:59] <JackYu> cjwatson: is the build restarted?
[17:00] <stgraber> JackYu: it'll take an hour or so
[17:00] <JackYu> oh...
[17:00] <stgraber> as cjwatson needs to revert the change in livecd-rootfs, upload it, wait for it to build, get copied, published, ... then do the change in debian-cd, push that to nusakan and finally respin
[17:01] <cjwatson> I've done all my side of it now
[17:01] <cjwatson> But indeed it needs to build/publish/copy/publish
[17:02] <JackYu> ou, huge work, thanks a lot:)
[17:04] <JackYu>  so maclin and I may sleep a while. it's 1am here but we are excited for our beta-1.
[17:07] <stgraber> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5614141/ (not quite worth a MP)
[17:08] <stgraber> JackYu: well, you can sleep for an hour or so if you want, but after that you'll have to start testing ;)
[17:08] <Laney> |-gnome?
[17:08] <cjwatson> stgraber: committed, thanks
[17:08] <cjwatson> and Laney is right, I'll take care of that
[17:09] <JackYu> it's fine. i will wait here
[17:09] <cjwatson> space gnome in this case I think since it's for the iso tracker
[17:09] <stgraber> yeah, I think it'll be " gnome" on the tracker
[17:09] <cjwatson> done
[17:10] <Laney> ah
[17:12] <stgraber> we really need some automation for the milestone archiving part of the process :)
[17:13]  * stgraber disables sync-mirrors on nusakan and starts the archival of previous milestones
[17:15] <stgraber> cjwatson: hmm, my memory is failing me here. Do we archive the old alphas or just wipe them from disk?
[17:18] <cjwatson> archive
[17:18] <cjwatson> /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/old-images IIRC
[17:19] <stgraber> cjwatson: ah yeah, here they are (I was looking for the raring alpha-1 images in www/ but forgot that we move them to the tape backup and not to something publicly visible)
[17:19] <stgraber> alright, starting to move things around then
[17:32]  * xnox looks at libnih migrating into raring-release, while the rest of $base stuff seems to be under a block
[17:32] <stgraber> yeah, it was missing in the blocks
[17:34] <cjwatson> xnox: lvm2> done
[17:34] <xnox> cjwatson: thanks. I shall have my hwe lvm2 upload soonish =)
[17:34] <stgraber> I added livecd-rootfs and libnih in the blocks. I'll push the change once livecd-rootfs is done migrating
[17:36] <xnox> cjwatson: can you please _reject_ this one https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=lvm2 ? i'll be uploading a different one shortly.
[17:37] <cjwatson> xnox: ok, done
[17:37] <xnox> thanks.
[17:41] <ScottK> highvoltage: I think it was just a misunderstanding.
[17:44] <blitzkrieg3> hi, would someone on the sru team please take a look at bug 445872
[17:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 445872 in OEM Priority Project precise "disable-disconnect-notification option ignored" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445872
[17:45] <blitzkrieg3> it was blocked by the update to 780602 forever and so users have been waiting a long time for the fix
[17:53]  * xnox is not happy =(
[17:54]  * ogra_ comforts xnox
[17:55]  * Laney hugs xnox
[17:55] <Laney> there, there
[17:55]  * xnox was hoping for Laney to hand out an FFe
[17:56] <Laney> we did say at UDS ...
[17:57] <xnox> Laney: i do want to merge the code with feature turned off though, to avoid bit rot.
[17:59] <Laney> can't you branch for raring and continue developing on trunk?
[18:00] <xnox> it's a non-lts, we only branch out lts for ubiquity as those are the only onces that get updates for point releases.
[18:00] <JackYu> cjwatson: how long left?
[18:01] <xnox> Laney: we preffer the trunk to stay for current dev release / bugfixes for release.
[18:01] <stgraber> JackYu: I should be able to start the respin in the next 30min (waiting for last publisher run)
[18:02] <JackYu> ok
[18:02] <highvoltage> stgraber: I might disappear soon but most things are pretty much sorted out afaict, if I'm away and you publish on the website, remember to check the timestamp, I think sometimes it doesn't get updated then edubuntu shows up way last on planet :)
[18:02] <stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I usually wipe the date field which resets it to posting time
[18:03] <knome> highvoltage, what's wrong with being the last? :)
[18:03] <stgraber> highvoltage: I'm still planning to release in an hour, I have everything good to go here, just waiting for Kylin
[18:04] <cjwatson> JackYu: please coordinate with stgraber rather than me, since he's running this beta and I'm about to finish for the day
[18:04] <JackYu> sorry for that:)
[18:04] <cjwatson> JackYu: meh, it was my fault ...
[18:07] <highvoltage> knome: well, we like being /first/ on planet for releases, but when we do it's not nice that it's already 20 posts behind :)
[18:07] <JackYu> sure.
[18:08]  * knome sets the publish time very much later than edubuntu's ;)
[18:09] <highvoltage> that's cheating!
[18:29] <stgraber> JackYu: rebuild started
[18:29] <JackYu> how long it takes?
[18:31] <stgraber> JackYu: 15min is my guess
[18:32] <JackYu> sure:)
[18:32] <stgraber> maybe 20, not sure as the last one failed I didn't get the exact timing
[18:32] <cjwatson> More like 15 I think
[18:33] <JackYu> ok. hope in 15 min
[18:41]  * infinity tries to sort out what our rationale was for having Beta1 and Beta2 be only two weeks apart, and curses this messing with his need to book a vacation between not and the end of March.
[18:41] <infinity> s/not/now/
[18:44] <slangasek> hrrmmm, I thought there had been discussion about fixing that spacing
[18:45] <slangasek> did that not get acted on?
[18:45] <infinity> I thought so too.
[18:45] <infinity> Was that in email?
[18:45] <slangasek> maybe?
[18:46] <Laney> wasn't on the release list
[18:46] <slangasek> yeah, it wasn't
[18:46] <infinity> Message-ID<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:46] <infinity> Pete said he'd fix it and forgot.  I'll just do that now. :P
[18:46] <slangasek> ScottK had emailed me about it and I forwarded it on to pgraner
[18:46]  * jokerdino waves to infinity. :>
[18:46] <slangasek> consensus was that there was no good reason for the current spacing
[18:48] <JackYu> great!
[18:49] <infinity> slangasek: That look more like what we discussed?
[18:49] <stgraber> JackYu: ^ I'll extend what I said earlier and will wait till 19:30, so that leaves you 40min to test it all and get back to me
[18:49] <infinity> slangasek: Of course, that bumps into the part where many people are away over a 4-day long weekend leading up to that, but meh.
[18:49] <infinity> (me included)
[18:49] <slangasek> infinity: ScottK had proposed final beta "two weeks before release"; three weeks is also ok by me; 4 weeks is definitely too long
[18:50] <infinity> slangasek: 3 weeks is what we had in that email thread, as suggested by you. :P
[18:50] <slangasek> infinity: this change probably needs to be announced, since the schedule of record is changing so late; can you send something to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[18:51] <JackYu> stgraber: thanks
[18:51] <infinity> slangasek: I'm not against it being a week later either.
[18:51] <slangasek> infinity: I'm not finding that part of the thread in my own mailbox, and as I said "three weeks is also ok by me" :)
[18:51] <infinity> slangasek: But betas have been pretty lightweight so far, the long weekend probably won't hurt it any.
[18:52]  * infinity just about sent that to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>...
[18:52] <maclin> Thanks stgraber.
[18:52] <infinity> Stupid finger autocomplete.
[18:53] <slangasek> infinity: don't forget to pgp sign the mail, and send it from your whitelisted ubuntu.com address
[18:53] <infinity> slangasek: Everything to UDA needs to be signed?  SRSLY?
[18:53] <infinity> (I moderate the list, I can post whatever I want...)
[18:53] <slangasek> infinity: no, only things sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:53] <infinity> slangasek: Oh, right. :P
[19:03] <infinity> slangasek: Announce sent and moderated.
[19:03] <slangasek> infinity: cheers!
[19:03] <infinity> And now I get to have a holiday the week before.  \o/
[19:04] <infinity> Which I'd planned all along, but forgot about the schedule. :P
[19:17] <jbicha> infinity: yay! I just realized yesterday that I was going to be completely swamped Wed & Thurs at the end of the month with POSSCON so the extra week helps :)
[19:18] <JackYu> stgraber: we have tested this build. We think It's ready for release.
[19:18] <ypwong> JackYu, yay
[19:21] <JackYu> stgraber: please mark it to be ready. Is there any other thing we should do?
[19:26] <stgraber> JackYu: ok
[19:29] <stgraber> alright, starting to publish now. Will send the announcement in around 30min
[19:30] <ypwong> stgraber, cool, thanks a lot for helping our first release today
[19:30] <stgraber> np
[19:31] <JackYu> good job, thank you.
[19:32] <stgraber> cjwatson, infinity: hmm, the usual "cp -al www www.prev" gave me a bunch of operation not permitted this time around (for some old stuff)
[19:33] <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5614554/
[19:33] <stgraber> I'm continuing the publishing anyway, but I'm wondering what happened there as I can't remember seeing this last I did it
[19:34] <stgraber> Riddell, ScottK: you are aware that your kubuntu active image is oversized right?
[19:37] <stgraber> phillw: same for Lubuntu desktop powerpc
[19:38] <stgraber> JackYu: and UbuntuKylin
[19:41] <phillw> stgraber: hmm, I'll put it into the release notes. I know Julien had mentioned that it seems to be a ppc-kernel issue (possibly more than one on the build list).
[19:41] <stgraber> phillw: ok
[19:42] <stgraber> cjwatson: could it be that the rewrite of post-qa (being moved to the python cdimage) broke the oversizedness test? as far as I can tell, none of the oversized images were flagged as such on the tracker
[19:42] <JackYu> stgraber: i see. will do as phillw.
[19:42] <stgraber> JackYu: ok
[19:45] <stgraber> Riddell, ScottK: just waiting on your go/no-go for the oversized active before triggering the mirror sync
[19:53] <phillw> stgraber: I'm a little perplexed, we *used* to get a notice warning if an ISO was over size at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39543/testcases
[19:53] <phillw> was this dropped when the new Notice Board went live?
[19:54] <phillw> something like "warning this ISO is oversized, this should never happen for a milestone ISO"
[19:55] <bdmurray> slangasek, infinity: shouldn't a SRU be done for Q and P not just P? bug 1020317
[19:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1020317 in telepathy-gabble (Ubuntu Precise) "telepathy-gabble crashed with SIGSEGV in tp_base_channel_close()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020317
[19:56] <slangasek> bdmurray: our standard SRU policy says it should; I'm of the opinion that we need to revisit this policy however, in connection with the discussion about reducing our support length for 6-monthly releases
[19:56] <stgraber> phillw: did you see what I told cjwatson 10 minutes ago?
[19:57] <phillw> stgraber: soz, I'll scroll back, I'm in PM with someone and prepping up my server to accept ubuntu kylin :)
[19:57] <slangasek> bdmurray: I guess we really ought to do that revisiting rather than just dropping quantal on the floor, though...
[19:58] <bdmurray> I'm also of the opinion that most P -> Q upgrades have already happened
[19:58] <slangasek> right, exactly
[19:58] <stgraber> Riddell, ScottK: based on Riddell's comment on the tracker "it's a tech preview", I'm going ahead with publishing of the oversized kubuntu active
[19:59] <ScottK> stgraber: That should be fine.
[20:00] <phillw> stgraber: Ahh, sorry, I see it now :)
[20:02] <stgraber> alright, publishing done, mirrors syncing now
[20:02] <stgraber> will wait for rsync to finish, make sure the pages look good, then will send the announcement
[20:03] <bdmurray> slangasek: what is the next step?
[20:03] <slangasek> bdmurray: well, we should have the discussion on a public mailing list - probably ubuntu-release ? - about changing SRU policy
[20:04] <slangasek> bdmurray: I don't know what to do with the SRU in the meantime; I don't think it makes sense to go back to the SRUer and demand a quantal upload if we think it's going to be superseded by a policy change
[20:05] <bdmurray> well we could let into -proposed while the discussion happens
[20:06] <slangasek> yep
[20:11] <infinity> slangasek: I don't think the intent was to drop the support lifetime for Q, was it?  We've already somewhat committed to that being 18mo.
[20:12] <infinity> (That said, I stil think it's not a good use of time to SRU every bug to P and Q, only the most critically broken regressions)
[20:13] <slangasek> infinity: not drop the support lifetime, but if we recognize that the normal expected cycle is that users on the 6-month releases upgrade soon after release, and our justification for SRUing to the 6-month releases when we SRU to the LTS is so that they don't get regressions when upgrading, it doesn't seem a good use of time to require Q SRUs for every P SRU
[20:13] <slangasek> security support for Q is still at 18mo
[20:17] <infinity> slangasek: Ahh, yes.  I think we're on the same page there.
[20:18] <infinity> slangasek: Though, I'd suggest our 18mo (or 7mo, down the road) support lifetime should include both security and *critical* SRUs.
[20:18] <infinity> slangasek: The key being "critical"
[20:18] <infinity> slangasek: While lots of what we do for an LTS is polish and perfection, not critical sky-is-falling fixes.
[20:19] <slangasek> sure
[20:20] <infinity> Anyhow, given that we're basically agreeing using different words, and we're both sensible and clever people (*cough*), I suspect there won't be much argument or even discussion if we propose a formalisation of a "no non-critical fixes after the next release ships" policy.
[20:20] <infinity> Given that, informally, a lot of people basically do that already anyway.
[20:20] <infinity> Certainly they do for LTS->LTS scenarios, where they'll fix precise, but not lucid and hardy.
[20:20] <infinity> Etc.
[20:21] <slangasek> well, this is somewhat the other way around where we're saying "fix precise and raring but not quantal"
[20:21] <slangasek> anyway, to the list
[20:22] <infinity> It's still the same thing.  You're just saying "fix the latest LTS and the latest non-LTS, but none of the older ones", instead of just "only the latest LTS", that's all.
[20:22] <infinity> ie: track the two "tips".
[20:36] <stgraber> yay, rsync finally finished!
[20:37] <stgraber> and everything appears to be there. Sending the e-mail now
[20:39] <stgraber> pleia2: please publish http://xubuntu.org/news/raring-beta1
[20:40] <pleia2> stgraber: done, thanks
[20:40] <stgraber> cjwatson: please moderate my e-mail to ubuntu-devel-announce
[20:42] <infinity> stgraber: Done.
[20:43] <stgraber> infinity: thanks. Good to know you're also a moderator, gives better timezone coverage (with both of you covering 80% of the available timezones ;))
[20:43] <infinity> stgraber: More like 160%.
[20:44] <stgraber> infinity: do you also have the credentials for http://release-blog.ubuntu.com by any chance? (I wonder whether we shouldn't just kill that blog...)
[20:45] <pleia2> fwiw, currently I x-post the announcement to fridge.ubuntu.com (working on that now)
[20:46] <stgraber> pleia2: right, I think that's enough to poke someon to take the ML announcement et post it to the fridge, instead of having yet another blog just so that the announcement shows up on planet
[20:47]  * pleia2 nods
[20:49] <stgraber> beta1 freeze lifted
[20:49] <stgraber> Laney, tumbleweed: can I remove your two b1-specific hints too?
[20:50] <stgraber> 3 actually, shotwell, nautilus and gnome-control-center
[20:53] <slangasek> infinity, stgraber: so the beta1 release announcement went out with the now-obsolete final beta date; fwiw :)
[20:54] <tumbleweed> stgraber: sure
[20:54] <stgraber> slangasek: oops :) as it's the same mailing-list, we can hope the readers will have seen Adam's e-mail :)
[20:58] <infinity> Ahh, I missed that when I read it.  Oops.
[21:11] <xnox> slangasek: should hwe sru's be ever done for non-lts releases, or it is ok to do that in lts & current-dev?
[21:12] <slangasek> xnox: well, certainly if it's install-critical hwe, it doesn't make sense to do a non-lts sru
[21:15] <xnox> slangasek: cause even 7month support cycle implies - lts, current-stable, dev-release. (which is a big improvement), but I'd rather see 7month security support, and only 1 month SRU support (aka 0day SRU and a bit)
[21:15] <infinity> xnox: Define "hwe".  The kernel team occasionally enables/fixes drivers and such as part of the normal kernel SRU cadence, but we certainly don't go above or beyond that for non-LTSes.
[21:15] <slangasek> xnox: "support cycle" does not imply "everything we SRU to the LTS in this period is also SRUed to LTS+1"
[21:16] <infinity> xnox: If we expect "normal" users to not be using the dev release (and that's true right now), cutting off all but security support before the next release is out is probably a bit harsh.
[21:16] <infinity> But it's a case-by-case thing.  I think the threshold should be different for LTS and not.
[21:16] <infinity> Critical is critical for all of them.
[21:17] <infinity> Certain cosmetic bugs and whatnot, it's not world-ending if they regress from LTS to non-LTS, as long as they're fixed in devel, so it's not a permanent regression.
[21:18] <xnox> slangasek: infinity: I guess from my point of view, I need a clear regression policy between LTS->LTS and LTS->in-betweeny.
[21:18] <slangasek> I don't think "cosmetic" is the right word since a cosmetic fix wouldn't be an SRU candidate, but yes.
[21:18] <infinity> Clear policies don't work.  This is very much a common-sense + ask-if-unsure type thing.
[21:18] <infinity> Because every bug is different, and I can't tell you in advance what yours is.
[21:19] <xnox> bug 1122445
[21:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1122445 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "Update device_types in lvm2 filters to support Micron PCIe SSD, among many others" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1122445
[21:19] <xnox> fixed in raring, pending britney migration.
[21:19] <xnox> Should it be SRUed into precise only, or precise/quantal?
[21:20] <xnox> those new devices can be enabled manually in /etc/lvm/lvm.conf but I want to see support out of the box for Micron PCIe SSD, FusioIO cards and etc in precise 12.04.3
[21:21] <xnox> (that is LVM VGs on those devices)
[21:21] <infinity> Yeah, I don't see that as critical to Q.  I doubt I'd reject it if you uploaded it, but I also wouldn't demand a Q fix if you only uploaded P.
[21:21] <slangasek> xnox: if this is enabled in 12.04.3, and a user puts their rootfs on one of these devices, then upgrades to quantal, what happens?
[21:21] <slangasek> (if Q doesn't have the fix)
[21:21] <infinity> There's also that, yes.
[21:22] <infinity> That could make it critical. :P
[21:23] <xnox> slangasek: they will for example fail to boot / bring up expected mount-points and have to vgscan by hand, twiddle with /etc/lvm/lvm.conf from booted machine or most likely from initramfs/busybox.
[21:23] <cjohnston> If the only feature added to the new version of python-django-auth-openid is to make it work with python-django 1.4 (what is in raring), does that make it a feature which needs a FFe or does that make it a bug fix?
[21:24] <slangasek> cjohnston: bugfix
[21:24] <infinity> cjohnston: Bugfix, assuming it's not an intrusive change that modifies behaviour (intentionally or otherwise).
[21:24] <xnox> cjohnston: I hope "make it work with python-django 1.4" is not an obscure way to say "ported to python 3" ?
[21:24] <xnox> since django 1.4 is the first one to have python3 support?! or did I get that version number wrong?
[21:24] <cjohnston> no xnox
[21:25] <cjohnston> 1.5 semi has python3 support is my understanding.. it fixes tests/updates things to work with 1.4 correctly.. still maintains support for the same previous versions of python-django as well
[21:30] <xnox> cjohnston: fair enough =)
[22:01] <stgraber> tracker updated, cronjobs restored, we're all done with beta1 now
[22:06] <phillw> thanks everyone :) And I'll ensure I do not lose track of the day of the week for beta 2 :)
[22:08] <knome> stgraber, now that you got rid of beta1 business, do you have a new upload and the update of translation strings scheduled for ubiquity slideshows?
[22:13] <xnox> Laney: are you still blocking systemd due to lack of testing or due to RC bug?
[22:18] <stgraber> knome: yeah, I'll make sure to upload before UI freeze
[22:19] <knome> stgraber, good, thanks :)
[22:33] <ScottK> xnox: rc bug.
[22:36] <xnox> ScottK: hmmm reference? /me thought it was fixed already.
[22:36] <ScottK> Dunno.
[22:36] <ScottK> Maybe he just dropped it.
[22:36] <ScottK> err forgot to drop it.
[22:37] <xnox> Looking at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/hints-ubuntu/view/head:/laney just "pitti" doesn't explain it all =)
[22:38] <ScottK> pitti asked for the block due to an issue.