[00:18] <rick_h_> brousch: Have him search Monster for "Network Administration Brighton". All of the info is there from what I've been told. Thanks for passing it along.
[11:42] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:43] <rick_h_> sucky morning
[11:43] <rick_h_> :)
[11:44] <snap-l> Blergh.
 We had 6 "mockups" colored "make this crap"
[11:47] <rick_h_> so I did, not 4th set of a dozen or more changes since then
[11:47] <rick_h_> some backtracking on earlier items, every one of them making it more of an ass project than before
[11:47] <snap-l> I picked it up. Unless you really don't know Python, it's not going to get you too far.
[11:47] <brousch> ok
[11:48] <rick_h_> I was more interestinged in oreilly's deal
[11:48] <brousch> i haven't gotten that far
[11:48] <rick_h_> but realized I want it on my web kindle reader and nothing I buy out of the kindle store can show up :(
[11:48] <snap-l> brousch: Have you installed Python?
[11:48] <rick_h_> which is another @#$@#% point of the day
[11:48] <brousch> indeed i have
[11:48] <rick_h_> brousch: tons of better books
[11:48] <brousch> though i have not compiled it
[11:48] <snap-l> That's part 1
[11:49] <rick_h_> oh, and NC dude strikes again
[11:49] <rick_h_> with a freaking book in IM this morning yay
[11:50] <snap-l> rick_h_: "Why testing is hard, so I've decided to go shopping instead", by NC dude.
[11:51] <rick_h_> "Designing code is hard so I'd rather just rewrite every app over and over vs put forth the effort to the fruitless task of making a decently flexible system"
[11:51] <rick_h_> or there abouts
[11:52] <snap-l> Rewriting vs. Repeating Code - Why I Repeat Myself Repeatedly Repeating My Repeating Code Repeatedly"
[11:52] <rick_h_> only he took 358 words to get to it
[11:52] <snap-l> rick_h_: Oh that's awesome.
[11:52] <rick_h_> according to wc :)
[11:53] <snap-l> Maybe he could beat his computer into a typewriter and take up freelance?
[11:53] <nullspace> rick_h_: I feel like I'm out of the loop, who is NC dude?
[11:53] <rick_h_> nullspace: you won't understand, you've missed half the effect by having the history
[11:53] <snap-l> nullspace: NC dude is Rick's Lex Luthor programming co-worker
[11:54] <brousch> no, lex luthor is a genius
[11:54] <brousch> it's his solomon grundy
[11:54] <nullspace> rick_h_: have you tried running an exploit against his box, get reverse shell and then rm -rf /usr ?
[11:54] <brousch> does he run linux?
[11:54] <snap-l> where rick_h_ stands for consistency, repeatable results, testing, and optimization, NC dude stands for lazy development, repeating code, and 2 hour non-productive bug fixing sessions that could have been handled via build servers.
[11:55] <brousch> i thought NC guy was the windows user
[11:55] <rick_h_> he's sinced gone dual boot
[11:56] <nullspace> repeating code? as in he copy pastes the same thing
[11:56] <snap-l> Honestly, if I was doing Linux / Windows, I'd use a VM at this point
[11:56] <snap-l> Dual Boot = wasted time being in the wrong system.
[11:57] <rick_h_> it is NC dude
[11:57] <snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, now I understand.
[11:58] <snap-l> "Yeah, I know that vim is awesome, but I don't have vim in Windows, so I'll have to boot into Linux when I get done with my Daily Show viewing in Windows"
[12:00] <snap-l> Bah, Borders is now 40-60% off.
[12:02] <nullspace> snap-l: what the company, a branch or are we talking books
[12:03] <snap-l> nullspace: Welcome to 2011. :)
[12:03] <snap-l> Borders Books is closing all of their stores.
[12:03] <snap-l> so everything is being liquidated. They're now at 40-60% off of everything in the store
[12:07] <nullspace> so amazon prices?
[12:07] <snap-l> nullspace: Yes, but shipped directly to the store for easy pickup.
[12:08] <snap-l> And if you can find a book / CD that's 40% off of retail on Amazon, please feel free. :)
[12:08] <snap-l> mostly they're 33%
[12:10] <Wolfger> snap-l: http://goo.gl/M7Ntt
[12:10] <Wolfger> by my math, that's 45% off
[12:11] <snap-l> And if you're not a prime member, you get to factor in shipping. ;)
[12:11] <nullspace> and now I''m distracted by Bosch's l-boxx modular storage systems
[12:11] <Wolfger> super saver free shipping, for the patient
[12:11] <Wolfger> and no sales tax
[12:12] <Wolfger> Amazon Prime is a tax on the impatient.
[12:12] <snap-l> Wolfger: Yes. :)
[12:13] <snap-l> nullspace: stackable toolboxes aren't that distracting. :)
[12:14] <nullspace> snap-l: I disagree
[12:15] <snap-l> Just be done with it and get a rolling toolchest. ;)
[12:17] <snap-l> http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00981337000P?vName=Storage+%26+Garage&cName=Tool+Storage&sName=Chests&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=L1
[12:18] <snap-l> Also, craftsman's site sucks
[12:19] <nullspace> snap-l: most corporate sites suck, welcome to 2011 :)
[12:24] <Wolfger> touche
[12:31] <Wolfger> on the other hand, that's hardly new to 2011...
[12:33] <nullspace> well it seems that it has become common place in 2011, either that or I'm just now seeing all the horror
[12:34] <snap-l> I think you're just more sensitive to it, having not been aware of it most of 2011. ;)
[12:34] <snap-l> Welcome to 2011. ;)
[12:37] <nullspace> well I have been spending a lot of time working on the house and avoiding popular culture
[12:48] <Wolfger> zomg, you've been avoiding pop culture? How can you live without (uh, somebody help me out here, who's a current pop icon?)
[12:48] <snap-l> Menudo
[12:48] <brousch> justin beeper?
[12:48] <Wolfger> rofl @snap-l
[12:48] <snap-l> Shawn Cassidy
[12:48] <brousch> menudo is back?
[12:48] <brousch> awesome
[12:48] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, along with Dynamite Magazine
[12:50] <Wolfger> dyn-o-mite!
[12:50] <Wolfger> that's it... snap-l's new nick is Rerun.
[12:50] <Wolfger> :-D
[12:51] <snap-l> Nah, I'm Roj
[12:51] <snap-l> Wolfger: You can be Rerun, and nullspace can be Duane
[12:52] <snap-l> now we need Shirley, Ma, and the kid sister.
[12:53] <snap-l> http://pygame.org/docs/ref/examples.html#pygame.examples.midi.main
[12:53] <snap-l> Mmm... maybe I can write my Glassblower application after all
[12:54] <snap-l> (Glassblower being my interpretation of Philip Glass as done by computer)
[12:55] <Wolfger> snap-l: sorry... Rerun is the only name I could remember off the top of my head :-)
[12:55] <nullspace> Wolfger: who is Duane?
[12:55] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_Happening!!#Principal_cast
[12:55] <snap-l> Dwayne, sorry.
[12:55] <Wolfger> nullspace: Damned kid... get off our lawns.
[12:56] <nullspace> Wolfger: you realize I have my lawn
[12:56] <nullspace> my own lawn, sorry it's still kinda early
[13:03] <Wolfger> I don't think you had your own lawn last time I visited you, so no. :-p
[13:04] <nullspace> pretty sure that's not how it works
[13:05] <Wolfger> ?
[13:05] <Wolfger> how does realization work then?
[13:06] <nullspace> hmm maybe I didn't tell your
[13:06] <nullspace> you
[13:06] <Wolfger> so you have your own lawn? Congrats!
[13:06] <Wolfger> Want mine too? I hate mowing it.
[13:07] <nullspace> I should just go back to my javascript, I seem to be doing a lot better with that language than english currently
[13:07] <nullspace> Wolfger: mine is > 1/3 of an acre
[13:07] <Wolfger> Then again, my dogs would not be happy if I didn't have it...
[13:07] <snap-l> Wolfger: You could teach them how to use the potty.
[13:07] <nullspace> not much if you ask me
[13:09] <Wolfger> snap-l: I have 3 that would be pretty easy to litter-box train, and one that could easily sit on a toilet... though I don't think I want either of those things.
[13:10] <nullspace> I just pictured a great dane on the pot, ha
[13:18] <nullspace> http://img.skitch.com/20080807-8t49gh9g9pi5iymnd49piiiuw1.jpg
[13:19] <Wolfger> Yeah. And unless I could teach her to flush... no thank you.
[13:20] <nullspace> Wolfger: motion sensor!
[13:20] <Wolfger> nullspace: good point
[13:29] <Duolos> Anyone here use Eclipse, by chance?
[13:39] <brousch> occasionally
[13:40] <Duolos> brousch: Just curious because I can't get it to display my code properly.
[13:40] <Duolos> #ubuntu kicked me out, basically, because I'm using the newest version lol
[13:41] <brousch> i've only used it for python
[13:42] <Duolos> ah okay.  I'm using java
[13:42] <Duolos> Just seems like it's missing fonts.  Just displays empty boxes instead of the actual characters.  But only for parts of the code.  Very strange.
[13:42] <Duolos> And, according to Google, no one else has ever had this issue.
[13:43] <brousch> you have sun java installed, or the default opencrap java?
[13:43] <Duolos> No, Sun Java.  Not going to use OpenJDK for Android development :)
[13:44] <snap-l> Duolos: I've used Eclipse, but only under Maverick, and under extreme duress.
[13:45] <snap-l> Duolos: Are you perchance using Unicode in your code?
[13:46] <Duolos> snap-l: I haven't even gotten to the point of typing any code.  Just looking at the code that Eclipse generates when starting a new project.
[13:46] <snap-l> And is it repeatedly showing the same blocks as hidden, or different blocks?
[13:46] <Duolos> snap-l: It appears as though it's just the variables (color-coded blue).
[13:47] <Duolos> values, rather
[13:49] <snap-l> Would you take a screenshot of what you're seeing?
[13:50] <Duolos> http://s891.photobucket.com/albums/ac115/nrossin81/?action=view&current=snapshot1.png
[13:51] <Duolos> ...and if you know of a better, easier place to post screenshots, PLEASE let me know lol
[13:52] <snap-l> Heh. :)
[13:52] <Wolfger> Duolos: my Google says differently? Or is you problem unlike this: http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/m/520247/
[13:52] <snap-l> I use Ubuntu One, but that has varying degrees of success.
[13:52] <snap-l> Wolfger: On the surface that looks similar.
[13:53] <snap-l> and of course, no answers.
[13:53] <Duolos> Wolfger: Fairly similar.  Except that tells about the entire interface being messed up.  My interface is fine, it's just part of the code.
[13:53] <Wolfger> of course
[13:53] <_stink_> sure does look like a font thing.
[13:53] <snap-l> Duolos: You're not using Hebrew, are you? :)
[13:54] <Duolos> Greek and Aramaic, actually
[13:54] <Duolos> ;)
[13:54] <brousch> Duolos: how did you install eclipse?
[13:54] <snap-l> http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=203659&start=0&S=46d79d739b260b4e24e4127a10392656
[13:54] <Duolos> brousch: That's the new version, just extracted.  I'm currently downloading the older version from the repos to see if that does it too
[13:54] <snap-l> Duolos: You might have downloaded a different language version by mistake?
[13:55] <brousch> so you downloaded it, extracted it to your homedir, and are running it from there?
[13:55] <Wolfger> Duolos: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6629225/source-code-shows-as-rectangles-instead-of-charactars
[13:55] <snap-l> That's the only thing I can think of that might cause that
[13:55] <Duolos> brousch: correct
[13:55] <brousch> good. the one in the repos is worthless
[13:55] <nullspace> rick_h_: have you see this guys show? http://www.djmarks.com/woodworks.asp
[13:55] <Duolos> brousch: #ubuntu wouldn't even discuss Eclipse unless I was using Galileo lol
[13:55] <snap-l> Wolfger: Good find. That might be the cause.
[13:56] <snap-l> Duolos: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6629225/source-code-shows-as-rectangles-instead-of-charactars/6953954#6953954
[13:56] <snap-l> Worst case, you'll get a lot of fonts you don't need.
[13:56] <snap-l> Best case, it'll solve the problem.
[13:56] <rick_h_> nullspace: yea, seen them all
[13:56] <rick_h_> he's pretty famous in the woodworkers circles for sure
[13:56] <Duolos> snap-l: ahhh... looks to be it
[13:56] <brousch> missing fonts makes sense. i mean, how thoroughly can eclipse be tested on a new kubuntu install?
[13:56] <snap-l> wtf? Why is that including postfix?
[13:57] <snap-l> Duolos: Be careful with those lines
[13:57] <snap-l> I'd start with sudo apt-get install ttf-mscorefonts-installer
[13:57] <Duolos> snap-l: Oh, I'll read them first lol
[13:57] <Duolos> And probably install them one at a time.
[13:58] <snap-l> Yeah, there's a bunch of crap in there that doesn't make any sense.
[13:58] <Wolfger> my Google-fu is mighty. :-)
[13:58] <Duolos> Looks like he just installed ttf*
[13:58] <Duolos> :)
[13:58] <Duolos> Wolfger: I guess I used the wrong keywords lol thank you
[13:59] <Wolfger> took me a few tries, but I arrived after your clarification at: eclipse "missing fonts" in code
[13:59] <Duolos> except... a lot of those are already installed
[13:59] <Duolos> Grr... trial and error time.
[13:59] <Wolfger> without quotes on "missing fonts" I got too much noise
[14:01] <Duolos> Thanks for the help.    Turns out I wasn't missing any fonts, but the default font didn't support italics :) All fixed.
[15:44] <nullspace> Duolos: nice
[15:44] <snap-l> Duolos: Ah, good to know.
[15:45] <snap-l> You might want to post that back on the Stack Exchange thread for the next time that Wolfger does Google Fu
[15:52] <Duolos> snap-l: haha good call
[16:04] <jrwren> how do you get $1 JJ?
[16:04] <jrwren> just walk in?
[16:11] <Wolfger> Duolos had italics in his source code? WTF?
[16:30] <snap-l> rick_h_: http://www.bluemic.com/reactor/ MMmmmmmmm
[16:30] <nullspace> jrwren: walking in the doors is the hard party what with the line
[16:30] <The_Machine> anyone use clonezilla who knows how to get more entries in the mount /home/partimag ?
[16:31] <The_Machine> it shows 4 that i don't want to use at all
[16:31] <The_Machine> doesn't show the USB drive i would like to use.  :-/
[16:35] <snap-l> The_Machine: Does dmesg show the drive as being recognized?
[16:35] <The_Machine> actually, i just figured out that i don't think it is being recognized
[16:35] <The_Machine> as you suggest
[16:36] <The_Machine> :-/
[16:36] <The_Machine> i hate this stupid old whitebox
[16:36] <The_Machine> thanks for your response
[16:36] <The_Machine> i'm just going to go shoot random people now.
[16:36] <snap-l> I'd just recommend a trip to Microcenter and a party store.
[16:36] <snap-l> but whatever works.
[16:37] <The_Machine> er, i meant hug.
[16:40] <rick_h_>  snap-l reminds me of the movie robots I think
[16:40] <rick_h_> one day I'll save my pennies for one of those pr-40 mics I think
[16:41] <rick_h_> I like how it kills sound once you're outside the mic
[16:45] <snap-l> Yeah, I love Blue mics. :)
[16:46] <snap-l> How dows redis compare with mongodb?
[16:46] <snap-l> n/m, key value only vs. document
[16:47] <snap-l> IN other words, another great way to lose data. ;)
[16:47] <rick_h_> hah
[16:48] <rick_h_> redis == replace memcached
[16:48] <rick_h_> makes a great cache layer, session handler, queue backend, etc
[16:49]  * snap-l is going to write a k/v store called devnull
[16:49] <snap-l> fastest around, with all the data integrity you've come to expect from NoSQL / Memcache
[16:50] <snap-l> store whatever you want: documents, k/v pairs, your entire msuci collection
[16:51] <Blazeix> went to JJ for $1 sandwiches, the line was out the door, looked to be about a 30 minute wait
[16:52] <rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/18/google-maps-adds-a-weather-layer/ hah cool!
[16:52] <rick_h_> should have asked them to deliver :P
[16:52] <rick_h_> I want weather radar on my google map though :(
[16:54] <The_Machine> JJ for $1 sandwiches what?!
[16:57] <snap-l> rick_h_: Can do the same with Weather Underground's Wundermap, which also shows the radar
[16:57] <rick_h_> right
[17:05] <The_Machine> Blazeix, where did you hear about JJs for $1?  Can't find on website :)
[17:07] <Blazeix> The_Machine: I heard it from nullspace at 11:31:32 :)
[17:07] <The_Machine> hehe
[17:07] <The_Machine> alrighty
[18:05] <rick_h_> lmao http://brianhaveri.github.com/Underscore.php/
[18:12] <snap-l> wtf?
[18:23] <Wolfger> snap-l: what is with your long string of wtf's on Buzz? Man, you're killing the tattered remnants of my faith in humanity.
[18:27] <nullspace> Wolfger: foolish of you to hold on to those remains
[18:27] <Wolfger> they are gone after seeing nullspace buzz about the torture/murder of a Maybach
[18:28] <snap-l> Wolfger: I live to sweve
[18:28] <snap-l> and serve
[18:28] <snap-l> man, what a typo
[18:29] <snap-l> If you really want to lose faith in humanity, don't fire up Miro all summer
[18:29] <snap-l> God, my database didn't get deleted, and I have a shit-ton of stuff downloading
[18:33] <_stink_> gah, sqlalchemy question and no rick_h
[18:34] <jrwren> is that what became of ipodder?
[18:41] <_stink_> rick_h_: i'm trying to find a way to take a sqlalchemy object that inherits Base, and get all columns names AND all relationship attributes that sqlalchemy knows about.  i can get the columns with <class_name>.__table__.c, but i can't find a way to have it tell me about relationships it knows about.  any advice?
[18:54] <rick_h_> _stink_: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sqlalchemy/_wOvkh6xKss
[18:55] <_stink_> rick_h_: thanks much.
[18:56] <rick_h_> np
[19:00] <rick_h_> _stink_: what are you doing that you need to pull the list?
[19:01] <_stink_> rick_h_: i was playing with a sort of /metadata rest resource... like "give me JSON with all the objects i'm allowed to see and their attributes", filtered in some appropriate way
[19:01] <_stink_> if this strikes you as "you're doing it wrong", let me nkow
[19:02] <_stink_> obviously while only having to define the objects in the normal way, map them the normal way, and only specify the stuff to block from view.
[19:02] <rick_h_> so then how are you getting all the realtion data?
[19:02] <rick_h_> and how far down to you nest through them?
[19:03] <rick_h_> so I'd rather build into base a to_json() method that could do some of what you're doing, but allow for a place to override where you need some custom/extras perhaps
[19:03] <rick_h_> but understand what you're saying, making it universal requires some internals like that
[19:03] <_stink_> well, not getting the data at all yet, ergo my question :) but i only want one level, i think
[19:03] <_stink_> yeah
[19:04] <_stink_> i made a table to hold the stuff to block, e.g., for each object
[19:04] <rick_h_> ah, I'd just do a __no_json__ = [xxx, yyy[
[19:04] <rick_h_> on each object
[19:04] <_stink_> so there's an 'object_metadata' table that says whether a client can know about it at all, and if so, what columns to blcok
[19:04] <rick_h_> so you can see when looking at the code if the property is blocked vs looking into the db in some table
[19:04] <_stink_> see, that's a good idea.
[19:04] <_stink_> yeah
[19:04] <_stink_> i like it
[19:05] <_stink_> so then i would have to have a to_json() on each that held column names and relationship attr names
[19:05] <_stink_> but i guess at least it's all in one plcae.
[19:05] <rick_h_> well you add to_json() to base and they all get it
[19:06] <rick_h_> could even create a JSONBase(Base)
[19:06] <rick_h_> and then your models that need to drop to json just User(JSONBase): __no_json__ == ['password']
[19:06] <_stink_> and each would also need to be told specifically about its relationships too, right?
[19:07] <_stink_> becusae in to_json() in Base I'd still need for blah in self.c:
[19:07] <_stink_> ?
[19:07] <_stink_> for the columns
[19:07] <rick_h_> no, your code you're doing to that would be the way you're heading
[19:07] <_stink_> i'm just trying to understand how the generic to_json can know about the attributes in each subclass.
[19:08] <rick_h_> because each of those subclasses inherits from Base
[19:08] <rick_h_> so it'll know the mapper/etc in that instance
[19:08] <rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/models/__init__.py#L80
[19:08] <rick_h_> that's the code I use to make all my models able to be cast to dict
[19:08] <rick_h_> User.get(13)
[19:08] <rick_h_> return dict(User)
[19:09] <rick_h_> and the json module can jsonify all dicts
[19:09] <rick_h_> but that doesn't work for relations
[19:09] <_stink_> right, so you loop through self.__table__.columns.  doesn't this leave out relationship attributes?
[19:09] <rick_h_> so I handle that manually: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/views/api.py#L66
[19:09] <_stink_> yewah, ok
[19:09] <_stink_> i see, yeah
[19:09] <rick_h_> I base that on extra url params
[19:09] <rick_h_> so in bookie's case, if you want the readable content, you pass with_readable=true
[19:10] <rick_h_> and it'll append it to the root object's dict
[19:10] <_stink_> sweet, i see
[19:10] <rick_h_> so yea, you're still in your boat for finding relations in an agnostic way
[19:10] <_stink_> so i could just have __no_json__ to block columns, and __add_json__ to append relationship
[19:10] <rick_h_> sure
[19:10] <_stink_> i'm not sure there's an obviously better way, so that's cool with me
[19:11] <rick_h_> just be aware that every one of those add_json is another query
[19:11] <rick_h_> so don't do that in a loop
[19:11] <rick_h_> that's why I use the with_content, it changes the query that pulls the records to do an eagerjoin on the extra realtion
[19:12] <rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/models/__init__.py#L508
[19:13] <_stink_> not sure i understand.  if i just want to be able to return a JSON list of attr names when this view is hit, would that cause extra queries?
[19:14] <rick_h_> hitting a relation for data causes another query to go out to go get it
[19:14] <rick_h_> User.get(13) only queries the user table
[19:14] <rick_h_> return User.addresses will then do another query to that user's addresses
[19:14] <rick_h_> if you have phone, address, email
[19:14] <rick_h_> that's three queries extra
[19:14] <rick_h_> and if you're returning 20 users, that's 60 extra queries
[19:14] <_stink_> ok, i see.  right
[19:15] <rick_h_> so I'd not get too "automatic" building of a big object without a manual query with some eager joins
[19:15] <_stink_> i think this view avoids that, but i have to be careful about that once i start retrieving these en masse
[19:15] <rick_h_> right, start out with api calls for /user
[19:15] <rick_h_> but eventually you want /users/all
[19:15] <_stink_> ok, bookmarked those to look at when i start grabbing this
[19:15] <_stink_> sweet.
[19:15] <_stink_> this is very helpful, thanks much
[19:16] <rick_h_> np
[19:21] <rick_h_> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/08/18/hp-announces-it-will-discontinue-touchpad-stop-webos-device-development/
[19:21] <rick_h_> man, what a day
[19:21] <rick_h_> crushing blow after crushing blow
[19:21] <jjesse> didn't they just reelease the touchpad?
[19:22] <brousch> a few months ago
[19:22] <jjesse> and they are going to spin off the pc busines?
[19:22] <brousch> but best buy sold so few they wanted HP to take them back
[19:22] <jjesse> wierd
[19:23] <ColonelPanic001> any brave souls here know a bit of Java and mind having a look at a absurdly simple line to see why Eclipse says it's wrong?
[19:23] <brousch> wimmwishes they could do the same, but they have nothing else to sell
[19:23] <brousch> rimm
[19:23] <brousch> ColonelPanic001: pastebin
[19:24] <brousch> don't ask to ask! what's wrong with you, man?
[19:24] <ColonelPanic001> I'M SORRY OMG
[19:24] <ColonelPanic001> http://pastebin.com/bpRnYq3b
[19:24] <brousch> i'm reporting you to The Leader
[19:24] <ColonelPanic001> this seems too simple to mess up
[19:25] <brousch> i don't think jave does the ' and " like python
[19:25] <brousch> i think you have to use "
[19:25] <ColonelPanic001> s/python/every other language ever/
[19:25] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[19:25] <ColonelPanic001> okay. lame.
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> I was hoping I wouldn't have to go through and escape all the "
[19:26] <brousch> and then escape the inner "s
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> thanks
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> while I'm asking - what's ' do, then?
[19:26] <jrwren> single char
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> ah
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> thanks
[19:26] <jrwren> char c = 'c';<-ok  string s= 'c'; <<--compile err
[19:49] <jrwren> rick_h_: what is ClarkstonUnion?
[20:07] <snap-l> The union in Clarkston? It's a restaurant
[20:09] <snap-l> rick_h_: I think HP wants to reconvene to see what WebOS will look like in the next few years
[20:09] <snap-l> because tablet / mobile is pretty much a three-horse race
[20:10] <rick_h_> jrwren: it's a great little place to eat
[20:10] <rick_h_> best mac and cheese
[20:10] <rick_h_> right in downtown
[20:14] <snap-l> qualifier: best mac and cheese if you like the crock-style baked mac and cheese.
[20:15] <rick_h_> yea, rich stuf
[20:15] <rick_h_> rich stuff
[20:15] <rick_h_> but mmmm so good
[20:15] <snap-l> (had some folks recommend a pizza place as the best pizza in Chicago, but I didn't like that style of pizza)
[20:15] <rick_h_> what?! no likey the chicago style deep dish?
[20:15] <rick_h_> ok, closing this day out...I'm toast
[20:16] <snap-l> heh
[20:16] <snap-l> rick_h_: I like Jet's style deep dish
[20:16] <snap-l> and even Buddy's / Shields
[20:16] <rick_h_> you sir...need new taste
[20:16] <snap-l> but for whatever reason, this didn't do it for me
[20:17] <snap-l> We need to get you over here for some Perry's when you can spare some calories
[20:17] <snap-l> I won't claim they're the best, but they'll definitely make your top 10
[20:17] <snap-l> top 5 even


[00:02] <rick_h> awesome, congrats snap-l
[00:04] <snap-l> Yeah, laptop is running nit now
[00:13] <jrwren> yay!
[00:13] <jrwren> yay for upgrades
[00:14] <snap-l> Heh. :)
[10:38] <rick_h> morning
[11:38] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:40] <brousch> yessir
[11:45] <snap-l> http://ur1.ca/92i9l <- New club metal
[12:56] <rick_h> wow http://readable.bmark.us/view/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fstevensalzberg%2F2012%2F04%2F22%2Funiversity-of-florida-eliminates-computer-science-department-increases-athletic-budgets-hmm%2F
[12:56] <rick_h> no CS at FL, kind of crazy to think of a big state school with no CS program
[13:04] <jrwren> anyone ever use twitter-bootstrap with django? I'm too django nub to figure out an easy way without disecting twitter-bootstrap
[13:05] <jrwren> rick_h: that is INSANE!
[13:05] <rick_h> jrwren: guess I'd start checkout out: http://goo.gl/Q3X7I
[13:06] <rick_h> https://github.com/earle/django-bootstrap seems most watched/etc
[13:06] <jrwren> that isn't it.
[13:06] <rick_h> bug ugh, this is why I hate django...wtf...
[13:06] <jrwren> that is just django-forms integration
[13:06] <rick_h> you can't just add your own JS/css tooling without framework hacks?
[13:07] <jrwren> actually, i swear there are a couple links in that google result that were not there last night.
[13:07] <jrwren> maybe I was just too tired to find the right links last night.
[13:08] <rick_h> gotcha
[13:08] <rick_h> I'd imagine it's got to be a solved problem by now
[13:08] <rick_h> I know I've seen several django apps use it, but not sure how and not rembmering the ones I hit recently
[13:08] <jrwren> a lot of it is my css/html is so weak, that i relaly need an idiots guide
[13:09] <jrwren> or i'm doing it wrong or somehting.
[13:09] <rick_h> well bootstrap makes it fun with needing the sass/less integration to use it
[13:10] <jrwren> ah, i didn't even get taht far. maybe that is part of the problem.
[13:10] <jrwren> i should just try out static boostrap and amek sure its looking right first and then try django with it.
[13:10] <jrwren> thanks rick_h
[13:10] <rick_h> wtf, they have a 'download with docs' but no docs online on the site?!
[13:11] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, so a lot of the css stuff is generated via sass or less (think it includes both sets of files? maybe not)
[13:11] <jrwren> for bootstrap? i just git clone it
[13:11] <rick_h> ah, looks like only less
[13:11] <rick_h> jrwren: http://lesscss.org/
[13:11] <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I saw that lack of a CS program at FL
[13:12] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, notice the git clone has no css directory
[13:12] <snap-l> I'm glad the athletic department is still going t strong, though.
[13:12] <rick_h> it's generated via the less directory
[13:12] <snap-l> I wouldn't want them to have to suffer.
[13:12] <rick_h> snap-l: well I always hate that argument. I mean big athletic depts like that actually more than pay for themselves and are revenue generators
[13:12] <rick_h> you can't compare that vs a CS dept
[13:13] <rick_h> imo
[13:14] <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, whatever. :)
[13:15] <snap-l> I have a problem with colleges having revenue-generating sports teams too, but that argument won't get solved in 10 minutes. :)
[13:15] <rick_h> heh yea, that'll get into a whole field of things
[13:16] <snap-l> But that's OK. I'm sure they'll have plenty of jock alumni who will give them gigabucks of cash when they go pro
[13:16] <snap-l> as opposed to some lowly startup that manages to get funded.
[13:19] <snap-l> But hey, when colleges and universities go completely online, I'm sure the athletic department will have been a great choice to fund.
[13:21] <brousch> jrwren: what are you looking for in django integration that you don't get from just twitter-bootstrap?
[13:35] <brousch> Quantal Quetzal
[13:40] <jrwren> brousch: being able to point a view at index in twitter-bootstrap. I think i don't have static things mapped properly
[13:41] <brousch> jrwren: that is likely. static is kind of a pita the first few times you do it in django
[13:42] <brousch> you do static differently in dev than in production
[13:42] <brousch> and it has improved every release, so many google searches turn up old advice
[13:43] <brousch> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/howto/static-files/
[13:46] <brousch> that is the official static files howto, but i found it hard to understand
[13:49] <brousch> basically you put your static files in a couple of places in your project during development. the default dev server looks in all these places. when you deploy, you "collect" the static files into one place, and then you can easily send that dir where you need it (separate static server, S3, etc)
[13:56] <rick_h> brousch: <3 the new name. Quetzal is in my son's animal flash cards for Q
[13:57] <brousch> i always think of quetzalquotl, the mayan feathered serpent god
[13:57] <rick_h> never haerd of it
[13:58] <brousch> read a book once in a while!
[13:58] <rick_h> hey, I do...check out my goodreads :P
[13:59] <brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl
[13:59] <rick_h> oh no, my wikipedia hit for the month has arrived snap-l :)
[14:02] <snap-l> rick_h: I hope you get stuck somewhere in the Clone Wars.
[14:02] <snap-l> ;)
[14:49] <snap-l> Anyone know of a good link I can peruse for handling two databases in sqlalchemy?
[14:50] <rick_h> yea, ask John. I've got an app that does that for staples
[14:50] <rick_h> snap-l: is this for web or just scripts?
[14:50] <snap-l> scripts
[14:50] <snap-l> SPecifically one that uses your manager pattern.
[14:50] <rick_h> oh, then just dupe the things poiting to a diff engine
[14:51] <rick_h> same models across the two databases?
[14:51] <rick_h> or different models in eaach db?
[14:51] <snap-l> yes and yes
[14:51] <rick_h> ok, well same models will be a bit more intersting. Different is easy, you just end up boostrapping the two separately and have a session1 session2
[14:51] <snap-l> it's essentially something that wasn't designed to use two databases.
[14:52] <snap-l> But because it's the typical "Oh, is just another load", it makes it tricky.
[14:53] <rick_h> if you want to share models...you'll have to wrap the models with a method that generates the correct base and returns it
[14:53] <rick_h> http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-connect-to-multiple-databases-in-SQLAlchemy
[14:53] <rick_h> is a little bit plain, but get the idea
[14:53] <snap-l> I'm looking at it now
[14:57] <rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8831568/sqlalchemy-declarative-model-with-multiple-database-sharding seems like a close to showing you the multiple base
[14:57] <rick_h> now imagine wrapping that in a function where you give it an engine string and get back a hooked up model
[14:58] <rick_h> so you could call it twice and have a ver1 and ver2 hooked to each db separately
[15:04] <snap-l> Yeah, I think I have a plan of attack
[15:04] <snap-l> or at least something to keep me busy. :)
[15:04] <rick_h> let me know if you hit issues, I've done it before
[15:04] <snap-l> going to make it ugly first, and then clean it up
[15:05] <snap-l> (ugly as in copying the models/meta.py file, and changing where it points to)
[15:12] <brousch> hm, i'm suppose to espouse how awesome ubuntu 12.04 is at the release party, but i haven't touched unity in 5 months
[15:12] <brousch> i think i'll talk about all the good stuff going into the server version
[15:12] <jrwren> that is all anyone cares about anyway.
[15:12] <jrwren> no one in their right mind uses desktop linux. ;)
[15:14] <brousch> i can find maybe 2 people in GR that are running Unity and like it
[15:21] <brousch> so anyways, is there a good source of all the new stuff that's been going on?
[15:25] <jrwren> what new stuff? just snag all the things from debian and release. done. nothing "new"
[15:25] <jrwren> :)
[15:30] <brousch> juju and charms come to mind
[15:30] <brousch> default versions of software people care about (python, php)
[16:03] <rick_h> default version of pgsql
[16:06] <snap-l> echo<PHONE_NUMBER>7420456d70746f720a | xxd -r -p
[16:06] <rick_h> yea, fun one
[16:14] <jrwren> 737466750a <-- put that in your pipe and smoke it
[16:16] <snap-l> jrwren: 6774666f0a
[16:17] <snap-l> Hey, we're looking like rick_h's two-factor. :)
[16:17] <rick_h> 543107
[16:18] <rick_h> too many #'s :P
[16:18] <snap-l> ;)
[16:18] <jrwren> snap-l: :)
[16:58] <rick_h> waldo323_: ping, you get your python issue solved?
[17:01] <waldo323_> more or less.....i likely didn't do things the right way but it works
[17:02] <rick_h> hey, that's what counts ;)
[17:02] <waldo323_> right, though i may show you the code at chc and see what  should have been done differently
[17:03] <waldo323_> its possible that parts of it will be worth using again for future years
[17:03] <rick_h> cool, look forward to it
[17:03] <rick_h> just wanted to make sure you got it going ok
[17:03] <waldo323_> it saved Matt, who does the program book,  a ton of time
[17:03] <waldo323_> thanks
[17:04] <rick_h> awesome
[17:05] <waldo323_> it also saved sarah a bunch of time
[17:18] <brousch> snap-l: I was listening to podcast and one started with some cool music. I wondered which podcast it was. Of course it was lococast
[17:21] <rick_h> the last lococast had some interesting music. It ran a whole range
[17:28] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[17:29] <snap-l> And thank Magnatune, as I think most of it came from therem.
[18:10] <rick_h> man, anyone else find it just staggering that between FB buying off instagram and not 550M for MS patents...they've basically written 1.5B (as in billion) in checks the last week-ish?
[18:11] <snap-l> rick_h: And they haven't hit IPO yet
[18:11] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, tack that on too
[18:11] <brousch> if you used it you'd now how awesome FB is
[18:11] <brousch> it's worth all that money
[18:11] <snap-l> They're looking to keep Yahoo from spoiling the party
[18:12] <snap-l> And any other patent trolls
[18:12] <snap-l> Frankly, it's disgusting
[18:12] <snap-l> but I can't fault them for it, because they're screwed if they don't.
[18:12] <rick_h> yea, but give them credit. "Give me all your lunch money kid!" "umm, no thanks, I've brought myself a nice 45cal and I'll keep my lunch money kthx"
[18:13] <snap-l> Like being forced to an orgy because if you don't, someone will take your kids
[18:13] <rick_h> that's ...an interesting way of putting it lol
[19:27] <snap-l> This photo still cracks me up:
[19:27] <snap-l> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf1pi210r0akx9w/Kenny_G_Miles_Davis.jpg
[19:58] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[20:44] <snap-l> Gah, I wish I had that hour back
[20:44]  * waldo323_ gives it back
[20:44] <snap-l> had a record in a table that was named closely enough to trick my mind into thinking it was right
[20:44] <snap-l> mp_id instead of (correctly) mpi_id
[20:46] <jrwren> don't you hate that?
[20:47] <jrwren> i do.
[20:47] <snap-l> jrwren: Yes
[20:47] <snap-l> Well, what's worse is I'm working with hacked "new code"
[20:47] <snap-l> so I'm thinking it's something more serious
[20:52] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/0iQ70qJZjcHGn2jaMJyY/
[20:52] <snap-l> This tickles me
[20:52] <snap-l> "ratings information for non-subscribing stations will no longer be part of any
[20:52] <snap-l> publicly released ratings reports, making it tough for the general public to
[20:52] <snap-l> know exactly where stations rank in markets where there are non-subscribing
[20:52] <snap-l> stations."
[20:54] <snap-l> I eagerly await the day when Arbitron is a footnote in tastemaking.
[21:02] <brousch> presentation time. this should be good


[06:38] <tjaalton> ugh, my stomach..
[07:52] <bryce> tjaalton: :-)
[07:53] <tjaalton> getting better ;)
[07:53] <tjaalton> but I had to skip breakfast
[07:54] <bryce> better have plenty of water
[07:54] <tjaalton> yeah
[07:57] <bryce> I think the openweek session went well, lots of good questions
[07:58] <bryce> not yet evidence of new contributors, but of course there's lots of time yet
[07:59] <tjaalton> I lurked there for a while
[08:02] <tjaalton> but was feeling a bit tired, so didn't raise my voice
[08:02] <bryce> no prob, hopefully I didn't get anything too wrong
[08:03] <tjaalton> I'll check the logs now :)
[08:05] <tjaalton> the OneSecondX fixes should be in xserver 1.5
[08:05] <tjaalton> at least some of them
[08:33] <bryce> heya Q-FUNK
[08:33] <Q-FUNK> hey
[08:34] <Q-FUNK> bryce: what's up? :)
[08:35] <bryce> Q-FUNK: at the moment working on prepping an sru for some -intel quirks, and rebuilding my dev box
[08:35] <Q-FUNK> ok
[08:36] <Q-FUNK> any news on merging the PCI ID patch to add support for "geode" ?
[08:36] <bryce> Q-FUNK: hey btw Marc Tardif mentioned that maddog was very pleased with how things turned out with geode
[08:36] <bryce> "This is all thanks to the combined efforts
[08:36] <bryce> of David Bensimon, Bryce Harrington and Martin-Éric Racine."
[08:36] <Q-FUNK> bryce: obviously he was.  they made poor Jordan jumpt through hoops to produce a libDDC patch overnight.
[08:37] <Q-FUNK> (or well, maddog did, when he pressured AMD's VP)
[08:37] <tjaalton> Q-FUNK: the patch is waiting in git
[08:37] <Q-FUNK> btw, I finally reached an agreement with Jordan to release that patch as a new upstream, if we need to, to really close this issue.
[08:38] <Q-FUNK> (the libDDC patch)
[08:38] <bryce> cool
[08:39] <Q-FUNK> my question to you both:  which one would be more acceptable as an SRU:  running autoconf ourselves on a patched 2.8.0 or having upstream do that for us on what we would call 2.9.0 ?
[08:39] <bryce> what would running autoconf attain?
[08:40] <Q-FUNK> we need to regenerate the symbols to get the build to take into consideration a new geode_ddc.c
[08:41] <bryce> ok, what does the new geode_ddc.c do?
[08:41] <Q-FUNK> doing this ourselves on a home-patched 2.8.0 produces a pointlessly huge diff, just for the new config.sub & co
[08:41] <bryce> right
[08:42] <Q-FUNK> it replaces reliance upon BIOS environment to produce EDID with the X.org libddc that performs the same in a BIOS-free way. it's what fixes it for Koolu.
[08:42] <bryce> if it can wait until 8.04.1 I think that sounds like it'd give decent justification for 2.9.0; assuming that 2.9.0 is mostly bug fix (and maybe reasonably safe/lightweight feature work)
[08:44] <Q-FUNK> we'd only bump the minor because we replaced code segments with a different implementation.  basically, 2.9.0 would indeed be applying that libDDC patch that's already attached to the bug, then doing autoreconf
[08:44] <Q-FUNK> and that's all
[08:45] <Q-FUNK> we'd move the goal to complete OLPC integration to the next upstream
[08:45] <Q-FUNK> but then that would be for intrepid
[08:45] <bryce> then it sounds like getting 2.9.0 in for 8.04.1 should be pretty straightforward
[08:45] <bryce> getting it SRU'd though would probably be a challenge... they seem to prefer individual patches (and small ones), however the fix sounds quite appropriate in scope
[08:46] <Q-FUNK> well, either we run autoconf or upstream does.  in either case, the code change itself is only that patch.
[08:47] <bryce> sru'ing the autoconf changes on the current 2.8.0 -amd would probably be a decent place to start.  If the RM's balk at that, offering a packaged 2.9.0 would be a good fallback
[08:47] <bryce> worst case, we could probably fish out the exact Makefile.in changes needed to make the thing work.
[08:48] <bryce> maybe if we can show clearly that 2.9.0 is strictly just the one patch, the RM's would be amenable to that
[08:58] <Q-FUNK> hm... we'd need several Makefile.in, actually
[08:59] <Q-FUNK> and then if any moro decides to build from source, he'd have an out of sync Makefile.am and aclocal.m4
[09:04] <bryce> if we have to patch Makefile.in(s) individually, we'd need corresponding Makefile.am changes.  I've done this before; it's a lot of work and quite error prone.
[09:05] <bryce> imho better to have a huge autoconf patch than take the risk of hand-crafted Makefile.[am|in] fixups, but whatever gets the job done I guess
[09:11] <Q-FUNK> I wouldn't take a risk with cherry picking files from an autoreconf. we really need to take the whole change as a lot.
[09:11] <Q-FUNK> btw, if you want to compare a pristine 2.8.0 with one that has autoreconf, debian has a +git release
[09:13] <Q-FUNK> I used the libtool, autoconf and automake from Hardy to produce it
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> added as comment to the bug
[09:44] <Q-FUNK> bryce: btw, where did this message by Marc pop out?
[09:45] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: is the comming for the geode PCI ID made as "geode" or "amd" ?
[09:46] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: upstream and I would prefer "geode"
[09:49] <bryce> heya james_w
[09:49] <bryce> Q-FUNK: was a private email
[09:49] <james_w> hi bryce
[09:49] <james_w> how are you?
[09:49] <bryce> james_w: doing good.  you?
[09:49] <james_w> good thanks
[09:52] <tjaalton> Q-FUNK: geode
[10:01] <Q-FUNK> bryce: ok.  it's at least good to know that my efforts are appreciated.
[10:06] <bryce> Q-FUNK: I'll forward you the entire email
[10:07] <Q-FUNK> ah, that would be nice.  thanks! :)
[10:17] <bryce> sent
[10:17] <Q-FUNK> pretty nice email indeed