[01:27] <moffa> Hello, is there a way to pin the terminal on the left bar for all users on a machine? There are too many users to manually login and pin it for
[01:35] <FaTaL_G> is there a command that will give "extra" details on a linux directory besides .... ls -al?
[01:36] <leftyfb> FaTaL_G: what "extra" details are you looking for?
[01:36] <FaTaL_G> I have two folders.... they have the same owner, they are both on a mergerfs mount point, along with many others.... tehy have same persissions everything. The mount point is a samba share....
[01:37] <FaTaL_G> now... when I try to add a root folder on one of them to Radarr... it works... the other one does not, it throws a ASPNET exception.....
[01:37] <FaTaL_G> There's literally nothing different about either folder. I did renames, moved contents between them, you name it.
[01:38] <FaTaL_G> I now have an "empty" "upload2" folder, that used to be the "upload" folder.....
[01:38] <leftyfb> FaTaL_G: sounds to me like a not-ubuntu issue
[01:38] <FaTaL_G> I rebooted the machines that were trying to mount it. I think its ubuntu or posix
[01:39] <FaTaL_G> the problem follows the folder on the ubuntu machine
[01:39] <FaTaL_G> ls -al upload and upload2 are identical in every way
[01:40] <FaTaL_G> I even swapped names between them, and the problem stays with the same folder, regardless of what I call it. Its a real file. No links, no mounts, etc... its just a folder on a disk
[01:40] <leftyfb> FaTaL_G: again, I don't think it's an issue with ubuntu.  I think it's with this mix of mergerfs and samba shares
[01:42] <murmel> moffa: gsettings set org.gnome.shell favorite-apps "['org.gnome.Terminal.desktop']"
[01:42] <murmel> and if you want others, just add them with a , between '
[01:42] <FaTaL_G> it shouldnt be, but how can I reveal any added info on it? the /mnt/media is the mergerfs & samba shared point, /mnt/media/upload and /mnt/media/upload2 are just folders
[01:43] <sarnold> FaTaL_G: maybe check audit logs or journal logs or dmesg logs to see if you've got errors or other messages?
[01:44] <FaTaL_G> thank you. I'll try that
[01:44] <FaTaL_G> I did a grep for upload of var lol...
[01:44] <murmel> moffa: you would need to sudo -u, sadly for all of them :X
[01:44] <FaTaL_G> err, var/log
[01:45] <jhutchins> sudo -i ?
[01:45] <murmel> jhutchins: -u for different user
[02:13] <moffa> Thanks! it worked
[02:23] <Carrot212> Hi guys, I'm a political activist, I'm trying to make my standard voice calls more anonymous. I can't use Signal for all calls. I need a way to setup an anonymous VOIP so somebody who knows my number, can't trace me back to my physical phone. A web-browser based VOIP, which I can connect to with public wifi or a VPN, would work, but I cant find any
[02:23] <Carrot212> that I can pay via BTC with.
[02:23] <Carrot212> Another option is a SIP? maybe, I just need a way to call, text, voicemail people without it being linked to my physical phone number.
[02:26] <sarnold> Carrot212: maybe try #privacytech on irc.oftc.net? that sounds like something they'd know
[03:47] <lagunaloire123> does anyone know what gnome-box program does ....is it an alternative to the propietary virtualbox
[03:48] <sarnold> lagunaloire123: gnome-box is a frontend to libvirtd; libvirt provides a management infrastructure around qemu and kvm
[03:49] <sarnold> lagunaloire123: you can use the virt-manager front-end, which is a pretty good competitor to virtualbox; gnome-box is much simpler and might be suitable as a replacement for virtualbox, but it might also not support features you need
[03:49] <lagunaloire123> sarnold well i used qemu years ago to try to design some free bios'es for several motherboards to free them from propietary bioses
[03:49] <sarnold> \o/
[03:49] <lagunaloire123> sarnold but i have not used qemu since then
[03:49] <leftyfb> lagunaloire123: https://imgur.com/a/qB1vBes
[03:50] <leftyfb> lagunaloire123: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/qKFCjhvtpn/
[03:50] <lagunaloire123> sarnold so it is just a front-end...does it support virtualbox..but virtualbox doesn't need a front end...i tested it many years ago before oracle bought it and it was easy to use and ran xp great in linux back in the day
[03:50] <sarnold> leftyfb: oo nice
[03:51] <sarnold> lagunaloire123: it probably does not support virtualbox as a backend; normally free software does free software things :)
[03:51] <leftyfb> lagunaloire123: gnome-boxes != virtualbox
[03:52] <lagunaloire123> sarnold yes that is quite right and proper
[03:53] <lagunaloire123> leftyfb ok lefty thanks for the tip...i think virtualbox is a great vm but it is propietary now so i don't use it
[03:54] <leftyfb> lagunaloire123: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Editions
[03:54] <lagunaloire123> leftyfb i do use propietary stuff when i can afford to pay for it...i don't mind...but i don't need a vm these days except for the 16 bit vm in windows32 to support the Outlaws game
[03:57] <lagunaloire123> i am glad that some game developers are learning from the excellent girl-centered game final fantasy 7...now genshin impact is coming along and doing quite nicely...and also a new one looks promising for girls also called Infinity Nikki...so i think games are improving these days
[03:58] <arraybolt3> lagunaloire123: You have been tols multiple times to not do that here. Stop.
[03:58] <leftyfb> !discuss | lagunaloire123
[03:59] <leftyfb> !ot | lagunaloire123 actually,
[04:01] <lagunaloire123> well anyway thanks for the advice on gnome-box..i wasn't sure what that was.
[04:03] <lagunaloire123> ok well i have lots to do...nearly everyday something new to work on....so see all of you later
[04:11] <ThePendulum> they /wc
[04:11] <ThePendulum> oops
[04:45] <tareq> Hi Guys!
[04:45] <tareq> I am new to Linux. Loving it so far. One problem though
[04:46] <tareq> I am a power excel user. I am a SEO professional. And I need Excel daily
[04:46] <tareq> is there any way I can harness the power of excel within Linux?
[04:46] <arraybolt3> tareq: There are ways of getting Excel to run on Ubuntu, but it's tricky. Is LibreOffice Calc not sufficient for your use case?
[04:47] <tareq> Online excel doesn't work since I have to use advanced plugins.
[04:47] <arraybolt3> Calc is like free-and-open-source Excel.
[04:47] <tareq> problem is, I don't have the time to learn libre calc
[04:47] <tareq> I am extremely efficient in excel
[04:47] <murmel> tareq: sounds like you are stuck to a vm then :X
[04:47] <arraybolt3> You can put it into a mode that looks like Excel and not hardly have to learn anything.
[04:48] <murmel> arraybolt3: pretty sure the plugins make calc non usable
[04:48] <tareq> I am thinking of that. But is it a problem?
[04:48] <tareq> how can I do that?
[04:48] <tareq> I can try that at least
[04:48] <arraybolt3> It will be way easier to do that than to learn how to run Excel in Linux. If you have to use Excel, the easiet way is to get a Windows license, install Windows into a virtual machine, and install MS Office into that.
[04:48] <arraybolt3> You will need both a Windows license and an Office license though, which may be *pricey*.
[04:49] <tareq> ho can I make libre look like excel?
[04:49] <arraybolt3> One moment, let me find the button again.
[04:49] <tareq> I understand how to run excel in a VM
[04:49] <tareq> sure. thanks
[04:50] <sarnold> tareq: you could try using PlayOnLinux to get excel to run in wine
[04:50] <tareq> I will only use the VM when I have to use the plugin functions.
[04:50] <sarnold> I haven't got a clue if it's *good* but it might be worth trying
[04:50] <arraybolt3> tareq: Open Calc, click the View menu, click User Interface..., then set the interface to Tabbed.
[04:50] <murmel> sarnold: it really depends on which version of office we are talking about
[04:50] <arraybolt3> Bam, you get an Excel-like ribon.
[04:50] <tareq> i have installed wine. But don't know how to use it yet. Have to watch some tutorials
[04:51] <bougyman> When did manpages get replaced with youtube videos?
[04:51] <sarnold> murmel: that wouldn't surprise me
[04:51] <arraybolt3> bougyman: They didn't. YouTube videos can be dangerous to follow, the manpages are way more likely to be right.
[04:52] <bougyman> I was being facetious.
[04:52] <tareq> thanks arraybolt
[04:52] <arraybolt3> tareq: Glad to try to help!
[04:52] <tareq> another question, are the formulas same in excel and libre calc?
[04:53] <bougyman> No.
[04:53] <bougyman> They use different operators.
[04:53] <arraybolt3> tareq: In my experience, yes.
[04:53] <NickH> Regarding Excel on wine https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=11
[04:53] <arraybolt3> bougyman: Really? I don't remember that.
[04:53] <bougyman> Are you sure? OpenOffice was way different from excel.
[04:53] <arraybolt3> I remember OpenOffice being like that, but not LibreOffice.
[04:53] <bougyman> Unless libre changed something dramatically.
[04:53] <arraybolt3> Libre changed things dramatically.
[04:53] <bougyman> Ok, cool.
[04:53] <bougyman> I don't use excel nor libre, but cool.
[04:53] <arraybolt3> OpenOffice was a formula mess in my experience, LibreOffice makes things much more Excel-like.
[04:54] <bougyman> I guess that's good for people coming from Excel.
[04:55] <tareq> it is very sad to let go excel. Although I don't like windows. I am very good at excel. I used to flex about it.
[04:55] <arraybolt3> As a fellow Excel ninja, I miss nothing from it. I can switch between Excel and Calc effortlessly.
[04:55] <bougyman> It's definitely a marketable skill. Low ceiling though.
[04:55] <tareq> how do you switch?
[04:56] <tareq> VM? dualboot
[04:56] <tareq> ?
[04:56] <arraybolt3> I mean I can use Excel one day and be happy, then use Calc later and be happy. I use Calc only unless I'm using Excel on someone else's computer who doesn't have Calc.
[04:56] <arraybolt3> The one thing in Excel that's missing in Calc that I know of is VBA support, and even that is changing.
[04:57] <tareq> I am thinking of using Qube OS as soon as I get used to linux commands. I guess that way I can use Linux and excel with the level of privacy Qubes provide
[04:57] <tareq> how is the idea?
[04:57] <murmel> wrong channel to talk about this ;)
[04:57] <arraybolt3> No clue. I know Qubes is tricky to use and requires a lot of resources and special hardware.
[04:57] <PeanutCashew1> tareq try #linux
[04:58] <tareq> yeah. I am a noob. it is in my future learning list
[04:58] <PeanutCashew1> Yeah the special hardware/limited hardware support is why I dont use it
[04:58] <tareq> what is best place to learn linux commands for a complete linux noob?
[04:59] <bougyman> Use linux as a daily driver, and only use the terminal for administration.
[04:59] <arraybolt3> +1
[04:59] <bougyman> Doesn't really matter which linux.
[05:00] <arraybolt3> tareq: Use a VM with a second copy of Ubuntu in it so that when you break things, you can recover easily. I've broken my installs so many times, VMs saved me mutliple times.
[05:00] <tareq> sure. thanks
[05:01] <tareq> currently using VM to run whonix
[05:01] <tareq> will add another ubuntu on it
[07:08] <gloomy> Hey, why is it that `apt search gist` gives me a long list of packages that don't contain "gist" in neither the name nor description?
[07:09] <gloomy> https://gist.github.com/ldorigo/8db8f9d0a90b6d180e2e20ef3640d524 These are the results I get
[07:12] <rfm> gloomy, it searches the long description, and lots of packages have frex "registry" which has gist as a substring...
[07:22] <arraybolt3> If I was to rsync my entire /home/arraybolt3 folder to flash media, how would I tell it to verify the files it wrote as it did so? I'm prepping to back up and reinstall my system in order to switch Ubuntu flavors, and I have a lot of data that I would really prefer to not lose. I believe rsync can do checksum verification, but I'm not sure if it does so by default during a local copy.
[07:24] <arraybolt3> It looks like rsync does this by default, just double-checking mosly.
[07:27] <arraybolt3> Though rsync kind of looks like all it does is checksum to ensure things weren't damaged in transit, not sure if it re-reads stuff that was written, or if disk buffering would get in the way of that anyway.
[07:31] <alkisg1> arraybolt3: mksquashfs /home/arraybolt3 /media/arraybolt3/my-home.squashfs
[07:32] <alkisg1> It compresses which makes things faster, and checksums at the same time
[07:32] <alkisg1> It's like tar.gz, but it can also be loop-mounted, so I prefer it over tgz
[07:33] <alkisg1> (use sudo if you have non-user owned files)
[07:34] <arraybolt3> That sounds like a good idea. Just... forgive my paranoia here, but having had corrupted USB file transfers, I really am trying to be careful here. Is there a way to make mksquashfs verify that an existing squashfs file matches a folder structure? That way I can test the archive after the fact.
[07:34] <arraybolt3> (And I can do the backup and verification from a live USB, thus avoiding a file changing in between archive creation and verification.)
[07:34] <arraybolt3> Actually I can look this up...
[07:34] <alkisg1> arraybolt3: sure, mount -o loop,ro my-home.squashfs /mnt; diff -r /mnt /home/arraybolt3
[07:35] <arraybolt3> alkisg1: Oh that's really smart. Why I didn't think of diff -r before is beyond me.
[07:35] <alkisg1> Or if you have enough space you may write it to /srv first,then md5sum it,then write it to flash, then md5sum it from there
[07:35] <alkisg1> That will actually be quite faster, as sequential writes to usb are much faster
[07:36] <arraybolt3> Eh, it will be to a fast SD card, so I'm not too worried about write speed.
[07:37] <arraybolt3> It's probably silly for me to be this careful, but that *one* time I got a bad USB flash is making me scared :P Anyway, thank you for your help!
[07:37] <alkisg1> 👍
[08:08] <hiya> Can I upgrade to mainline kernel in 22.10?
[08:13] <Neith> is there a way to run a script after unattended upgrades finishes running? after some googleing I found `DPkg::Post-Invoke` but that fires more than once (I assume maybe due to unattended upgrades running more than one DPkg command?)
[08:22] <Neith> oh some more googleing finds https://askubuntu.com/a/1369397, so I'll give that a try
[08:35] <sutradhar> hi
[08:55] <alkisg1> While running the Ubuntu 22.04 installer for Raspberry Pi, what's the default username/password to login to vt2? I tried ubuntu/blank, ubuntu/ubuntu, ubuntu-live/blank, nothing works
[08:56] <alkisg1> It's been stuck at "waiting for unattended-upgr" for an hour now, so I wanted to look at the logs before force-rebooting it...
[08:57] <murmel> alkisg1: internet says ubuntu/ubuntu :/
[08:58] <EriC^> iirc it used to be ubuntu/blank for the desktop iso's
[08:58] <EriC^> maybe the username is different on pi iso?
[08:58] <alkisg1> Could be... e.g. on ubuntu-mate the username was ubuntu-mate, not ubuntu
[08:59] <sutradhar> hi
[08:59] <EriC^> hmm, seems as murmel said alot of ubuntu/ubuntu in the wiki and other places
[08:59] <sutradhar> my custom kernel parameters in /etc/sysctl.d/60-custom.conf doesnt load on reboot
[09:00] <murmel> sutradhar: and what is in that file?
[09:00] <alkisg1> I googled about it too, I tried ubuntu/ubuntu, it didn't work either :/
[09:00] <sutradhar> if i run manually its all ok sysctl -p /etc/sysctl.d/custom.conf
[09:06] <alkisg1> (I ended up force-cancelling unattended-upgrades, and of course purging them after reboot)
[09:06] <alkisg1> Woah, the rpi image is using wayland too!
[09:26] <alkisg1> I go to the remote desktop settings, enable remote desktop and remote contol, then I connect with xfreerdp /u:user /v:host, and I can view, but I can't control, why?
[09:29] <alkisg1> At least VNC works...
[09:32] <lotuspsychje> maybe some remote apps dont like wayland yet alkisg1 ?
[09:35] <alireza> I'm looking for an IRC group to ask some bandwidth calculation question.
[09:35] <alireza> I'll be glad if someone give me a group name
[09:36] <alkisg1> lotuspsychje: I think it worked when I tested on the PC architecture, maybe some pi-specific bug...
[09:38] <lotuspsychje> alireza: whats your specific issue, maybe volunteers can point you the right direction
[09:45] <alireza> I want to calculate how much network my machine used in one month. The system gives me this output: Transmitted 191.849 Mbps, Received 2.861 Mbps. How should I calculate it for days or months? What method should I search for?
[09:52] <lotuspsychje> alireza: maybe these might help you out; https://www.tecmint.com/linux-network-bandwidth-monitoring-tools/
[10:01] <alireza> lotuspsychje: Thank you but I want to create my own system and I want to know how does it works. or example this is my output when I download a one gigabyte file:  https://paste.ofcode.org/tR7j43wKpRrMXYyrC85qJc
[10:07] <Diagon> Detecting Mini Display Port: change the GPU to discrete in BIOS and auto detect OS to false. Restart and you can now access the mini-display port.  https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T530
[10:07] <Diagon> That seems to be the general agreement, but I have no sign of the mDP, either via xrandr or NVIDIA Settings.  Suggestions?
[10:07] <murmel> Diagon: wrong channel?
[10:07] <murmel> ahh
[10:08] <Diagon> 22.04
[10:08] <murmel> do you have a t530 or just a system like that?
[10:08] <Diagon> t530
[10:21] <hiya> native heic support in Ubuntu?
[10:28] <Diagon> linux-modules-nvidia-390-5.15.0-53-generic "Provides: nvidia-dkms-390".  But nvidia-dkms-390 is a package and it isn't installed (?)
[10:37] <l3on> Hi all, I have a problem with my input in Ubuntu 22.10 I can't find a way to solve it. Sporadically, when i use type down shit+t instead of getting T i get FT. can't find a way to debug the situation here. My xev looks okay https://pastebin.com/2ZAUWu35
[10:48] <wicope> Hi. Ubuntu 22.04 with kernel 5.15.0-53-generic. The problem is "modprobe aufs"
[10:48] <wicope> modprobe: FATAL: Module aufs not found in directory /lib/modules/5.15.0-53-generic
[10:48] <wicope> Download the kernel sources, the aufs sources,  configure the kernel for aufs, compile...
[10:48] <wicope> Why doesn't aufs come in the kernel anymore by default?
[10:48] <wicope> Should I use a certain version of the kernel version and aufs?
[10:49] <wicope> Should I use a code repository to build the kernel where everything is already semi-automated?
[10:58] <alkisg1> wicope: because most software has switched to using the upstream overlayfs now
[10:58] <alkisg1> Which software are you using that needs aufs?
[11:08] <wicope> alkisg1, https://sourceforge.net/p/lethe
[11:10] <alkisg1> wicope: https://sourceforge.net/p/lethe/git/ci/master/tree/ => last update 2011
[11:11] <alkisg1> Search for some updated software that uses overlayfs for this, not aufs
[11:13] <Maik> wicope: beside that software being not further developed and is outdated, installed software from outside the official Ubuntu repo's is not supported and at own risk.
[11:13] <wicope> I use both, aufs and overlayfs. I don't see any problem with it.
[11:57] <vlm> is it supported to disable journaling on ext4 then add data and later re-enable journal without data loss or other adverse effects? Does the journal ever get reset when files are actually written to disk or will a record for all files ever copied to the filesystem be present? My understanding of the journal is limited to that its there to prevent data loss on sudden power outtage or so
[12:16] <Diagon> just upgraded 22.04 on a thinkpad t530. On reboot, suddenly the buttons don't work. I can move cursor, but no left/right/middle button effects.
[12:18] <Diagon> No response to tapping the trackpad, either.
[12:25] <Diagon> Well, it's working on reboot.  :?
[12:29] <elias_a> Diagon: I have been experiencing something like that. I use TP t450s and 22.04.1. Sometimes after boot the trackpad is enabled and it should not be because I've disabled it in BIOS.
[12:30] <elias_a> Booting the OS solves the problem here as well.
[12:53] <Diagon> Switched to Nouveaux drivers on X, and it's allowing me to use the mini displayport on this thinkpad t530. It doesn't work on wayland unless I turn off virtualization in the bios.
[13:16] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:21] <relipse> Hi, I have Ubuntu 20.04 and normally I Remote Desktop into it, but after doing an upgrade I can't anymore. (I can ssh, however), any ideas?
[13:24] <relipse> nevermind, this seemed to fix it: https://linuxconfig.org/ubuntu-20-04-remote-desktop-access-from-windows-10
[14:54] <zetheroo> Is it possible to have the Power Mode change to Performance automatically when the PC is connected to external power?
[15:38] <hiya> So what is the best Ubuntu updater for software?
[15:38] <hiya> Gnome Software
[15:39] <hiya> or Ubuntu Updater?
[15:39] <hiya> I see in apt-get upgrade that some packages are being kept back
[15:40] <hiya> It includes linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04
[16:29] <jhutchins> hiya: The CLI tools (apt, apt-get, aptitude) are much less complicated and extremely reliable.
[16:29] <jhutchins> hiya: On the other hand, the GUI tools just use the CLI tools with a cartoon wrappper.
[16:30] <hiya> ok
[16:31] <jhutchins> hiya: Without looking into your specific problem, there is something going called "staged release" that holds back packages for a more gradual upgrade.  Someone else here probably knows how to fix it, or there's Google.
[16:31] <hiya> ok
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> !phasedupdates | hiya maybe?
[17:47] <pjstirling123> Hi, I'm trying to upgrade a server and something horrible seems to have happened with apt, and I'm trying to figure out what to do next
[17:49] <leftyfb> pjstirling123: what release of ubuntu are you running? What exactly are you uprading and how? Please pastebin the errors you are getting
[17:51] <pjstirling123> leftyfb
[17:51] <Bluerate> ubuntu 22.04 terminal is not working and tty terminal is not working also .. can you help?
[17:52] <imi> hello
[17:52] <leftyfb> Bluerate: define not working
[17:52] <imi> on my machine the primary boot source is an external USB hdd (with ubuntu 22.04 up-to-date installed). when I let it boot the default way instead of grub activating the machine goes into an infinite loop of rebooting. But whenever I press f9 (selet boot device) and manually select the second entry: the only entry saying ubuntu, it boots up the exact same OS from the same external HDD. How do I fix this issue? (uefi machine)
[17:53] <Bluerate> leftyfb when I clicked on terminal, it's not opened terminal window .. hope it's clear now
[17:54] <leftyfb> Bluerate: this is a fresh install of ubuntu 22.04 desktop running gnome? You've made no changes? Tried rebooting? What hardware is it installed on?
[17:56] <Bluerate> leftyfb it's ubuntu 22.04 installed as Operating system few months ago and made many installation ... already rebooted ... the hardware is intel core i7
[17:58] <leftyfb> Bluerate: CTRL+ALT+F3  that should bring you to a tty
[17:59] <Bluerate> Yes and when open and enter username and password it opened and flied and asked again for username and password
[17:59] <Bluerate> so I can open tty terminal leftyfb
[18:00] <leftyfb> Bluerate: sounds like either you have something bad in your ~/.bashrc or ~/.profile or something else is severely wrong with your system
[18:00] <Bluerate> I tried to remove firefox with snapd command then there's issues with snap-store connectivitiy and i close the terminal while running and when reopened it wasn't working leftyfb
[18:00] <leftyfb> Bluerate: I would suggest booting with a live usb and running this in your home directory:  mv .bashrc bashrc ; mv .profile profile # and then reboot
[18:08] <alkisg1> Does ubuntu gnome have a "launch a guest session" feature? If so, they could use that one...
[18:08] <arraybolt3[m]> I haven't seen such a feature.
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> One assumes that you could make a new user account named "Guest" and do the same thing though.
[18:09] <alkisg1> What about user switching, so that they'd add "user2" and login with it?
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> (Assuming you didn't give it admin privileges.)
[18:09] <alkisg1> Does it have a "users-admin" dialog?
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Can't remember if GNOME has user switching, but that wouldn't surprise me.
[18:09] <arraybolt3[m]> (If it did have it.)
[18:11] <tomreyn> it does
[18:11] <alkisg1> Bluerate: try this: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/user-add.html.en
[18:11] <alkisg1> If you can add a new user and login with that one, then you'll also be able to fix the first account
[18:12] <leftyfb> they left a while ago
[18:12] <toddc> alkisg1: 14.04 had guest user built in https://people.ubuntu.com/~gunnarhj/shell-guest-session.html   but ... no longer
[18:12] <alkisg1> Meh, matrix :D
[18:12] <toddc> https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2021/07/create-guest-account-ubuntu-20-04/
[18:12] <alkisg1> toddc: thanks; it's still there in mate, but anyway they left so...
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> a guest account was pretty handy actualy
[18:23] <Bluerate> leftyfb tried with mv .bashrc bashrc .. mv .profile profile .. but not working
[18:24] <leftyfb> Bluerate: can you open your settings and create a new user and set it to an admin?
[18:27] <Bluerate> leftyfb yes added
[18:27] <leftyfb> ok, login as the new user and try to open a terminal. Or go to your tty and login as the new user
[18:30] <Bluerate> leftyfb still terminal now opening for a new user or tty
[18:30] <leftyfb> Bluerate: now or not?
[18:30] <Bluerate> not
[18:30] <Bluerate> working
[18:30] <leftyfb> Bluerate: reinstall
[18:31] <Bluerate> reinstall ubuntu
[18:31] <leftyfb> yes
[18:31] <leftyfb> it's going to be quicker than finding out what is wrong without terminal access
[18:32] <Bluerate> can i install another terminal with user interface
[18:33] <leftyfb> Bluerate: without being able to login to a terminal, you're not going to be able to do much. I highly recommend reinstalling ubuntu
[18:33] <Bluerate> OK
[18:34] <jhutchins> Bluerate: You can open another terminal instance as any configured user.
[18:35] <jhutchins> Bluerate: That's going direct to the consoles - Ctrl-Alt-F1-F6.
[18:35] <leftyfb> jhutchins: they can't login at all
[18:36] <jhutchins> Rescue mode?
[18:36] <leftyfb> jhutchins: and then what?
[18:37] <jhutchins> Probably adduser?  I'm still wading through scrollback.
[18:37] <jhutchins> you could move all of the files from the user directory and see what that does, otherwise it's something in pam.
[18:37] <leftyfb> they already added a new user
[18:39] <jhutchins> I think we have a communication error here, I don't see what _is_ happening, just "not working".
[18:39] <jhutchins> leftyfb: You're probably right, given the level we're working at, reinstall is probably easier than figuring out exactly what's wrong.
[18:40] <jhutchins> Sorry for butting in.
[18:44] <tomreyn> communication wasn't great and the explanation of "tried to remove firefox with snapd command" for gnome-terminal no longer opening and TTY login no longer working is, at best, surprising.
[18:47] <tomreyn> pjstirling123: did you make progress beyind typing a nickname here? ;-)
[18:48] <tomreyn> *beyond
[18:48] <ForeverNoob[m]> Trying to update... wuts dis? https://paste.debian.net/1262546/
[18:51] <leftyfb> ForeverNoob[m]: cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999
[18:51] <nteodosio> I've experienced something similar some minutes ago
[18:51] <leftyfb> looks to me like the 32bit repos for bionic are down/gone ?
[18:53] <ForeverNoob[m]> But I'm running 64bit 18.04? Anyway: https://paste.debian.net/1262547/ - There's more in `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/` though.
[18:55] <tomreyn> it must be a different issue, status 403 was returned
[18:55] <tomreyn> i assume this is something like a WAF overreacting
[18:55] <imi> on my machine the primary boot source is an external USB hdd (with ubuntu 22.04 up-to-date installed). when I let it boot the default way instead of grub activating the machine goes into an infinite loop of rebooting. But whenever I press f9 (selet boot device) and manually select the second entry: the only entry saying ubuntu, it boots up the exact same OS from the same external HDD. How do I fix this issue? (uefi machine)
[18:56] <tomreyn> ForeverNoob[m]: try again, do you get the *exact* same errors, similar ones, or none?
[18:56] <alkisg1> ForeverNoob: I just tried updating a vm and got similar errors, so I switched to a local (gr) mirror and updated successfully; I think there are some glitches with the primary ubuntu servers, maybe depending on the  source IP as well...
[18:57] <alkisg1> imi: sudo efibootmgr | nc termbin.com 9999
[18:58] <imi> alkisg1: https://termbin.com/j2v7
[18:58] <UnivrslSuprBox> I can confirm some issues with slow performance and 403 errors on archive.ubuntu.com
[18:58] <tomreyn> UnivrslSuprBox: which ip address?
[18:58] <alkisg1> imi: sudo efibootmgr -o 0001,0000,0007,0002,0003,0008
[18:59] <tomreyn> UnivrslSuprBox: the target, i mean
[18:59] <alkisg1> If this doesn't show any error messages, then reboot and test if it works
[18:59] <imi> well, I want this external usb hdd to be portable
[18:59] <UnivrslSuprBox> tomreyn: `http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python3-defaults/python3-minimal_3.6.7-1~18.04_amd64.deb  403  Forbidden [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]`
[18:59] <tomreyn> that's the same one
[19:00] <alkisg1> imi: you currently booted with 0001, this will pre-select the one you currently booted with
[19:00] <alkisg1> imi: the boot order is stored in nvram, it's per-pc, it's not stored in a disk
[19:00] <imi> I see
[19:01] <alkisg1> It is portable; but of course in every pc you need to select "boot from usb"
[19:01] <imi> that's not a big problem
[19:02] <imi> let's hope that helps, thanks
[19:03] <rollappuser> what is 2+2?
[19:05] <pottenfromtheblo> quick question, i've been trying to teach my son some linux admin stuff. so we're working with Ubuntu. i wanted to teach him terminal to get him comfortable in the shell. when we do  useradd -m, it creates a user with a directory. but then when the user signs in and tries to KDE Plasma, its sort of a mess, because it doesn't create all the shell directories. is there a flag to do that within kde? i've been doing it
[19:05] <pottenfromtheblo> manually, but for some reason its buggy. ie. dolphin doesn't go to documents, when i go click documents, etc..
[19:06] <tomreyn> UnivrslSuprBox: i've passed this on to #canonical-sysadmin fwiw
[19:06] <UnivrslSuprBox> Thanks
[19:06] <pottenfromtheblo> for the folders, i mean Desktop, Downloads, Music, Pictures, etc... does everyone create those manually as well?
[19:08] <tomreyn> pottenfromtheblo: those should be created automatically, but i would expect kde to handle that. note though that on debian derivates such as ubuntu the default tool for adding another user is adduser (a wrapper around useradd, IIRC)
[19:09] <tomreyn> so if you prefer using useradd directly, i recommend making sure you know how adduser would use it
[19:20] <ForeverNoob[m]> @tomreyn: Re: 403 on updates: It works now (I previously tried like 3 times)
[19:23] <tomreyn> ForeverNoob[m]: it was just fixed, whatever it was
[19:28] <ForeverNoob[m]> Cool, good to hear 👍
[19:40] <audiodef> I've recently been seeing "Errors were encountered while processing: grub-efi-amd64-signed shim-signed needrestart is being skipped since dpkg has failed" on my headless server. How should I fix this?
[19:47] <pottenfromtheblo> @tomreyn thank you.
[19:58] <arraybolt3> Alright, the system backup saga continues. I have managed to backup my whole Home directory to a squashfs, verified it wrote properly, reinstalled my OS, then restored my data. The problem is, I have managed to unmount the squashfs file, but now cannot manage to get the loop device associated with the file to detach. I'm doing "sudo losetup -d /dev/loop6" (which is the right device), and it fails
[19:58] <arraybolt3> silently.
[19:59] <arraybolt3> (Also, if I run "echo $?" immediately after the above command, it reports 0 (success, according to the manpage), but the device doesn't disappear, so idk what it's doing.)
[20:00] <arraybolt3> If I were to take a guess, it looks like something is somehow still using the squashfs file even though I unmounted it, since the manpage talks about "lazy device destruction".
[20:02] <arraybolt3> Also "sudo fuser /dev/loop6" and "sudo fuser /media/path/to/home.squashfs" both return nothing.
[20:04] <arraybolt3> (I'm trying to detach the loop device since I can't manage to unmount the SD card containing the squashfs now.)
[20:04] <leftyfb> arraybolt3: losetup -d doesn't remove the loop device from your device tree. It only disassociates it with your file
[20:05] <arraybolt3> Hmm, yet running "losetup" on its own still shows /dev/loop6 associated with the squashfs.
[20:05] <leftyfb> sudo lsof |grep /dev/loop6
[20:06] <arraybolt3> leftyfb: https://dpaste.com/CFRBYQVVC
[20:06] <arraybolt3> A couple of error messages, no other results.
[20:06] <leftyfb> so it's not being used by anything
[20:07] <leftyfb> sudo losetup -f
[20:07] <leftyfb> see if it shows up as the next available
[20:08] <arraybolt3> Trying to unmount the card gives me "umount: /media/arraybolt3/dfdf8cc2-6514-49a7-b90d-019949fd8e11: target is busy." I have no file manager open, no process with the squashfs open, and the squashfs is the only file on the card. Trying that next command now.
[20:08] <leftyfb> not that it matters, just curious
[20:08] <arraybolt3> (re: sudo losetup -f) Returns "/dev/loop7".
[20:08] <leftyfb> did you detach the loop device before unmounting?
[20:08] <arraybolt3> Nope, unmounted first.
[20:08] <leftyfb> maybe next time run a "sync" after
[20:09] <leftyfb> sudo lsof |grep /media/arraybolt3/dfdf8cc2-6514-49a7-b90d-019949fd8e11
[20:09] <arraybolt3> After the umount, but before the losetup -d?
[20:09] <leftyfb> after the umount
[20:09] <arraybolt3> I did run "sync" a few times.
[20:09] <leftyfb> before detaching, yes
[20:09] <arraybolt3> The last lsof command seems to have returned the exact same thing as the first one.
[20:09] <arraybolt3> Two errors, no other output.
[20:09] <arraybolt3> (Er, warnings, not errors.)
[20:10] <leftyfb> I'm not good enough to determine the next step other than to reboot
[20:10] <arraybolt3> Eh, oh well. I just realized I might should be in #ubuntu-next since this is Lubuntu 23.04 I'm on. Just jumped from Kubuntu 22.04, not used to being in the wrong room for this :P
[20:20] <xbox> is there any update for ubuntu on xbox 360
[20:20] <arraybolt3> Pretty sure that's not an official Ubuntu project.
[20:21] <xbox> probably dead project by now
[20:21] <xbox> testing ubuntu 10 right now
[20:22] <xbox> it runs prettty fast
[20:34] <gyg> arraybolt3, children of God by third day is a good one.
[20:34] <arraybolt3[m]> gyg: Probably the wrong channel, but I actually like that band and that song :)
[20:34] <leftyfb> gyg: can we help you with something?
[20:34] <gyg> haha yeah
[20:40] <televi> hello, my sendmail takes forever to restart and sendmail.  so look at my /etc/hosts I have: "<IP_ADDRESS> my server.com" is that ok?
[20:40] <televi> I have my real ip and real domain
[20:41] <jhutchins> televi: How long is "forever"?
[20:41] <televi> to restart the server takes about a minute
[20:41] <televi> or two
[20:41] <leftyfb> televi: what version of ubuntu is this?
[20:41] <televi> is this an impatient problem? lol
[20:41] <televi> 22.0
[20:42] <leftyfb> 22.0 isn't a valid version of ubuntu
[20:42] <leftyfb> televi: please run this and paste the URL here:  cat /etc/os-release | nc termbin.com 9999
[20:42] <televi> 22.04
[20:42] <leftyfb> televi: either way, 1 minute is perfectly acceptible for a server to boot up
[20:42] <televi> https://termbin.com/eo5vl
[20:44] <jhutchins> televi: <IP_ADDRESS> is a frontier.net address - is that your real IP?
[20:45] <televi> no I just wrote that ip
[20:45] <televi> I have my real ip written
[20:45] <televi> in my /etc/hosts
[20:45] <televi> https://conetix.com.au/support/simple-php-mail-test/ <-- I use this script and it tells me Connection Timeout
[20:46] <leftyfb> televi: you should /join #ubuntu-server with help running a sendmail server
[20:46] <televi> but from terminal when I run: echo "Subject: test" | sendmail -v<EMAIL_ADDRESS>it takes forever but it does come eventually
[20:46] <televi> oh ok
[20:46] <leftyfb> televi: but might I suggest using as more modern MTA like postfix
[20:48] <jhutchins> televi: What logs have you looked at?
[20:48] <televi> none :)
[20:54] <rob0> What are you hoping to do with sendmail? It's really not feasible to run a mail server from home. You can do it on a VPS, but there too, it requires commitment.
[20:54] <rob0> I'd suggest ##email as a better place to discuss.
[20:55] <sarnold> and postfix is almost certainly a better choice than sendmail unless you've already got a complex sendmail.cf that your business relies on..
[20:56] <leftyfb> running an email server properly is non-trivial and should not be performed by those who are not invested in the time it takes to set them up properly and securely as well as troubleshoot when needed
[20:57] <rob0> It's certainly easier to learn. Sendmail is in many ways more powerful, but it's very difficult.
[20:57] <jhutchins> I dunno, I read the book and wrote my own config without m3.
[20:59] <leftyfb> Anyone can get an email server to send and receive email. The number of people who can do so properly and securely is exponentially smaller
[21:02] <televi> do I need to have the <IP_ADDRESS> localhost domainname in my /etc/hosts ? or should I only have my public ip & public domain?
[21:03] <leftyfb> televi: the former is required. The latter isn't in all cases but is in some. Add both
[21:03] <televi> ok
[21:04] <jhutchins> televi: Make sure you can ping both, and READ THE LOGS.
[21:04] <jhutchins> televi: You don't get hero points for working blind.
[21:05] <televi> https://pastebin.com/raw/dpJB1JDV
[21:05] <televi> this is my log when I try to "service sendmail restart"
[21:06] <leftyfb> televi: please troubleshoot in #ubuntu-server where it is more appropriate
[21:06] <rob0> televi: again: What are you hoping to do with sendmail? It's really not feasible to run a mail server from home. You can do it on a VPS, but there too, it requires commitment.
[21:06] <televi> running a website, and my website sends emails via phpmail or sendmail
[21:07] <televi> and its on a vps, not a home pc
[21:07] <jhutchins> televi: Do you see anything there about hostnames or errors?
[21:07] <rob0> Then all you want is a null client and a relayhost/smarthost
[21:07] <rob0> you're only SENDING, not hosting incoming mail?
[21:08] <televi> rob0 that is correct.  only SENDING
[21:08] <leftyfb> rob0: help is being provided in #ubuntu-server
[21:08] <televi> ok thanx
[21:08] <rob0> ok, I'll drop it, but again, televi and others are welcome in ##email
[21:24] <rodybig> Is it possible to find out which thread within a process made a network syscall like accept/ write/ read etc from outside the process? I'm using something like "perf trace -p xyz" but I can't quite make sense of the data it dumps.
[21:24] <rodybig> This is how the output looks like: https://paste.linux.chat/?25b73899e4515acf#87tZqmsFhDft9BTzcEmgMcdZC2n9nQ2zoVbVGE82M64o
[21:24] <rodybig> There's frontend/abc being logged
[21:24] <rodybig> Does that correspond to the thread ID?
[21:26] <bray90820> Hey how would I enter an IP address into the terminal and view the hostname of the interface
[21:26] <sarnold> rodybig: the linux kernel's view of the thread id, yeah; it might not have any relationship to the process's idea of what its thread id is
[21:26] <leftyfb> bray90820: interfaces don't have hostnames
[21:26] <sarnold> rodybig: (some threading libraries provide 'thread id' objects that might not be related at all to the names the kernel uses)
[21:26] <sarnold> bray90820: what problem are you trying to solve?
[21:27] <bray90820> I have a virtualnetwork interface and I just wanna know the hostname of said device
[21:27] <bray90820> *Virtual network
[21:27] <rodybig> sarnold Ah, I see what you mean. But the thread ID shown here is for the unique kernel schedulable entity, right?
[21:28] <rodybig> I suppose it has to be.
[21:28] <sarnold> rodybig: yeah; you'll probably find a /proc/2454413/status etc
[21:28] <rodybig> Perfect, thanks.
[21:28] <sarnold> rodybig: *maybe* it'd be under a different /proc/nnnn/task/2454413/ directory -- I'm not 100% sure how that works :(
[21:29] <rodybig> nnnn = PID you mean?
[21:29] <sarnold> yeah
[21:29] <rodybig> I see, makes sense.
[21:29] <leftyfb> bray90820: interfaces do not have hostnames
[21:29] <sarnold> most of what 'threads' are are kinda done in userspace..
[21:29] <rob0> bray90820, "host <IP address>" will show the reverse DNS if there is any set, but that might not have the information you want.
[21:31] <sarnold> bray90820: what are you going to use this 'hostname' for?
[21:31] <bray90820> rob0: Yeah that command worked thanks
[22:39] <morgan-u2> ok so sarnold or was it tomreyn? -- I was running <journalctl -f > when chrome shut down --- as advised.  Now what (Hope I didnt mess it up but I did the update and reboot. I also started chrome but have not clicked "restore" to redopen my 35 or so tabs.
[22:39] <morgan-u2> shall I start journalctl -f    again? I failed to look up what it does.
[22:40] <sarnold> morgan-u2: when chrome crashes, read through the journalctl -f output and look for log lines that look relevant
[22:40] <pedahzur> Am I mis-remembering, or is ubuntu.org supposed to be owned by Canonical?
[22:40] <sarnold> morgan-u2: running it at the time is lovely because then you just need to scroll back a few lines .. trying to read the logs the next day is more work
[22:41] <pedahzur> http://ww12.ubuntu.org/ resolves, but that's not Ubuntu... :)
[22:42] <sarnold> pedahzur: I don't know the story why canonical doesn't own ubuntu.org but it's been this way for a while, heh
[22:42] <arraybolt3> pedahzur: Sounds like you have found a phishing site.
[22:43] <arraybolt3> Especially with the ww12 at the start... :(
[22:43] <pedahzur> sarnold: Thanks. arraybolt3: I was trying to going to packages.ubuntu.org...I *thought* that was valid. Apparently not.
[22:43] <pedahzur> arraybolt3: http://ww1.ubuntu.org/ refuses to connect. :)
[22:43] <arraybolt3> Should be packages.ubuntu.com, though you probably already know this.
[22:43] <sarnold> heh yeah, the packages.ubuntu.com but packages.debian.org messes with my head
[22:44] <anddam> howdy, I have access as user A on a 20.04 LTS, I added user B, then created /etc/sudoers.d/B.user and wrote a nice  "B ALL=(ALL:ALL) :NOPASSWD ALL"
[22:44] <arraybolt3> sarnold: Oh it gets worse, debian.net is also a Debian website, pretty sure.
[22:44] <sarnold> arraybolt3: yeah, but iirc most of the sites you'd want to visit in that domain don't work. but iirc there's one that's *only* available via debian.net
[22:44] <anddam> notice the type error in :NOPASSWD in place of NOPASSWD:, now B and A cannot run sudo  due to   >>> /etc/sudoers.d/B.user: syntax error near line 1 <<<
[22:45] <anddam> did I just lock myself out this system admin?
[22:45] <arraybolt3> anddam: Sounds like it. Boot into recovery mode, drop to a root shell, you should be able to fix it from there.
[22:45] <sarnold> anddam: maybe try pkexec ? that's sometimes available as a fallback
[22:46] <scottg489> I just started getting this error: "The repository 'file:/cdrom focal Release' no longer has a release file" This is on a fresh install using an autoinstall USB drive I've been using for a while. Does anyone know what's going on here?
[22:46] <sarnold> (it depends upon your polkit configuratino what services / commands might be available to you)
[22:46] <anddam> sarnold: pkexec is there
[22:46] <sarnold> scottg489: I think it's always worth removing those cdrom rules after install, most users have faster networks than they have USB sticks or CDROM drives
[22:46] <scottg489> I'm on 20.04.4. I know 20.04.5 is out and I feel like that might have something to do with this, but I don't think support for *.4 should have dropped?
[22:46] <sarnold> anddam: .. but the *configuration* is probably not :(
[22:46] <anddam> arraybolt3: if I can do it via this session is probably better
[22:47] <arraybolt3> 20.04.5 is the same OS as 20.04.4, just with updates applied.
[22:47] <arraybolt3> scottg489: ^
[22:47] <sarnold> anddam: you might also be able to just 'systemctl restart' as your user, systemd does polkit auth things for that, too
[22:47] <scottg489> sarnold: Yeah, this was my first go at setting up an autoinstaller so I don't have anything like that
[22:47] <anddam> sarnold: what would the result?
[22:47] <scottg489> arraybolt3: So what is going on though, why is this failing all of a sudden
[22:47] <anddam> the result be**
[22:47] <sarnold> anddam: that'd reboot, so you could get to a root shell
[22:48] <arraybolt3> scottg489: It sort of sounds like you have a cdrom inserted and now apt is finding it, but not able to find the release file or something. I dunno.
[22:48] <anddam> the system is remote and virtual, I need to grab someone with access to the managing console
[22:48] <scottg489> Maybe there was just a weird problem with the install. It seems like almost nothing is running, not even SSH
[22:48] <arraybolt3> scottg489: What's your /etc/apt/sources.list look like?
[22:48] <arraybolt3> Just remove any lines about file:/cdrom.
[22:48] <anddam> just for reference, visudo checks the sanity of the sudoers file on exiting, could I have used that to edit this sudoers.d/ file as well?
[22:48] <anddam> because a plain vi was enough to shoot myself in the foot
[22:49] <scottg489> arraybolt3: deb [check-date=no] file:///cdrom focal main restricted
[22:49] <scottg489> I understand I can just edit that file, but the point of this USB installer is to have this all automated
[22:49] <arraybolt3> scottg489: OK, what country are you in? I'll just hand you a working sources.list file. Also, you could just add to your USB installer the instructions to write the file correctly, I'm thinking.
[22:49] <scottg489> I've used this installer mulitple times in the past. Maybe just something weird happened during this install and I should try again
[22:50] <arraybolt3> All I know is you probably *shouldn't* have any cdrom lines in your sources.list file.
[22:50] <scottg489> Yeah for sure
[22:50] <arraybolt3> Maybe you're just copying the file from a live ISO directly to the host? That might cause the problem.
[22:50] <scottg489> I'm just more interested in fixing the autoinstaller rather than fixing this problem
[22:50] <arraybolt3> (Host being the system you're installing to.)
[22:50] <anddam> sarnold: in fact neither A or B have the authorization to run stuff as root with pkexec
[22:50] <anddam> ok, that's it then
[22:51] <arraybolt3> scottg489: What autoinstaller are you using? (Sorry if this is a silly question, I've never used any Ubuntu autoinstaller before.)
[22:51] <sarnold> anddam: yeah, I wish visudo worked for the drop-in files :(
[22:52] <sarnold> anddam: if you set a root password (unlikely) you could also use su, or login .. but probably you wouldn't be here if you had that
[22:52] <arraybolt3> Actually, unless you're doing something like using scripts that manually do everything, I probably don't know how to help here, so I should likely leave this to others to figure out. Whatever setting you can set to make it not include the cdrom lines is probably good, and you should have focal, focal-updates, and focal-security all in the file, with the main, universe, restricted, and multiverse
[22:52] <arraybolt3> repositories. That should give you the best experience. If that's not the exact setup you want, tweak that to your liking (but make sure to include focal-security!).
[22:52] <arraybolt3> scottg489: ^
[22:53] <anddam> sarnold: I didn't set the root pwd, su was how I was switching from B to A in the hope that it would work
[22:54] <anddam> visudo(8) says visudo can specify the path, so maybe next time just  visudo -f /etc/sudoers.d/B
[22:54] <anddam> ok, it's a matter for tomorrow then
[22:54] <anddam> thanks
[22:55] <sarnold> anddam: good luck :)
 Nice  8[22:56] <arraybolt3> Emerald1012: ?
[22:58] <anddam> arraybolt3: apropos the recovery mode, server docs has no mention of it https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/search?q=recovery , Core docs does but involves snap or a connected keyboard not sure how well those apply to a remote virtualized system
[22:59] <arraybolt3> anddam: Odd that it wouldn't be in the server docs. Drop to GRUB early in the boot process (using Esc or Shift), then select Advanced Options for Ubuntu. You can find the recovery mode options there.
[22:59] <sarnold> anddam: the usual thing is to boot into single user mode or rescue mode or something similar, fix themistakes, and then reboot normally
[22:59] <sarnold> anddam: if you can mount the filesystem into a different VM you could fix it that wya, too
[23:00] <anddam> this is an ESXi… environment?
[23:00] <anddam> not sure how to call that, but I guess I can mount the fs
[23:01] <matsaman> 'guest'
[23:01] <anddam> no I mean the hypervisor is ESXi so all the VMs are managed by its console
[23:03] <sarnold> some cloud environments let you detach and attach block storage to different VMs
[23:44] <scottg489> arraybolt3: Yeah after another install it seems fine now and the sources.list is properly populated
[23:49] <Guest93> Hi, Im setting up Lubuntu 22.04, whats the maximum LUKS passphrase length? All answers I googled were years old. Thanks.
[23:50] <matsaman> Guest93: ...
[23:56] <zzo38> How to support TRON character code on Ubuntu?


[00:05] <mwhudson> is there an easy way for me to install the kernel and libc headers for another architecture?
[06:42] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <dholbach> good morning
[08:02] <pitti> wgrant, dpm: odd, latest utopic (and vivid) translation export lost "libc"; I just approved the template on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/glibc/+imports?field.filter_status=all&field.filter_extension=pot but I wonder how we lost that in the first place
[10:29] <xnox> brainwash: sigh, thanks.
[10:31] <xnox> Noskcaj: i don't know about abiword - test it make sure it doesn't regress do the merge if you wish. I do not have time, nor interest to merge abiword. Thus i gave the merge up for adoption.
[10:32] <xnox> Noskcaj: encfs -> synced, let's see if it builds everywhere.
[10:45] <xnox> hm, i ponder how to ping tseliot on irc =)
[10:46] <xnox> is he by any chance on the other IRC network?
[10:48] <xnox> Noskcaj: encfs built fine. all good.
[10:52] <netdef> build stated :) naaha
[10:52] <netdef> does ideviceinstaller works  on ios 8.1.1?
[10:53] <netdef> i installed from ubuntu repository which i don't know exact version. I'm new to this libimobile
[10:53] <netdef> but it does not work and says can't start installer or someting
[11:02] <netdef> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/local/lib/libxml2.a(encoding.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.rodata.str1.1' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[11:03] <netdef> /usr/local/lib/libxml2.a: error adding symbols: Bad value
[11:03] <netdef> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
[11:03] <netdef> what is this error
[11:04] <maxb> An error instructing you to recompile with -fPIC
[11:05] <netdef> I'm so sorry but I dont know how to
[11:05] <netdef> can u teach me?
[11:05] <netdef> how to put -fPIC?
[11:07] <mgedmin> I think #ubuntu might be a better channel for this, netdef
[11:09] <netdef> but i soved by my self
[11:36] <netdef> the problem happens when ubuntu try to compile application in 32 bit using 64bit libaray on 64 bit os machine.
[11:37] <dholbach> @pilot in
[11:43] <netdef> just keep reference when you try to compile
[11:43] <netdef> ye!!!! compiled my expectaion was collect
[11:43] <netdef> libplist was not good
[13:12] <dholbach> xnox, can you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ntfs-3g/+bug/1291827?
[13:12] <dholbach> it looks like there was a small bit of delta between ubuntu and debian - can the patch be dropped?
[13:17] <smb> apw, could you accept my nominations on bug 790558, please. It is quite old but I found we still did it wrong when I did the merge from Debian.
[13:20] <pitti> cjwatson: did you do the systemd integration into openssh? if so, is there a reason why we have both a .service which is started in multi-user.target *and* a .socket? wouldn't the .socket be sufficient and more efficient?
[13:30] <apw> smb, done
[13:31] <smb> apw, thanks
[13:32] <xnox> dholbach: that package is in sync in vivid.
[13:32] <xnox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ntfs-3g
[13:32] <dholbach> xnox, right
[13:33] <dholbach> xnox, Ari thought there was a patch worth keeping in Ubuntu
[13:33] <dholbach> and since you synced, I thought you might have an opinion on the bug report :9
[13:33] <xnox> dholbach: i've changed with colin here and we decided it's not worth keeping the compat with pre-2011 wubi installs or something like that.
[13:34] <dholbach> thanks, I'll follow up on the bug report
[13:34] <xnox> dholbach: well the bug can be closed now, no?
[13:34] <dholbach> yes
[13:34] <dholbach> that's what I was going to do
[13:34] <dholbach> ... with some explanation
[13:52] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:53] <cyphermox> @pilot in
[13:55] <cyphermox> rbasak: hey!
[13:58] <rbasak> cyphermox: hi!
[13:58] <cyphermox> rbasak: just curious what exactly there was to do atm with bug 1257082? :)
[14:24] <rbasak> cyphermox: I wanted a conversation around my comments 21-23, to work out the best way to do this so we don't diverge from Debian.
[14:24] <cyphermox> k
[14:24] <rbasak> cyphermox: Debian have said that they'd accept patches.
[14:24] <cyphermox> right
[14:24] <rbasak> So no reason to introduce an Ubuntu delta here if we can help it.
[14:25] <cyphermox> then it seems like your idea to just have the small change in the script sounds like a good way to address this, and something that can be easily upstreamed
[14:26] <rbasak> cyphermox: yeah - provided that it works for all stakeholders, which assumes I've understood the multiple problems here correctly.
[14:26] <cyphermox> if you're still looking after it, I'll just let that bug be for now :)
[14:26] <rbasak> cyphermox: I'm happy to look after it, but I need a response from Jorge here really.
[14:26] <rbasak> niedbalski: ^^
[14:27] <cyphermox> cool :)
[15:38] <dholbach> @pilot out
[15:38]  * dholbach hugs cyphermox
[16:17] <rbasak> Is there a tmpfs that we can use in package builds and dep8 tests? Looking to speed up mysql tests, and they can make use of a tmpfs if there is one mounted somewhere.
[16:17] <rbasak> There's /run/shm, which is presumably evil to use thisi way but might be available.
[16:17] <rbasak> Is there a better place or mechanism to get this?
[18:30] <bdmurray> tjaalton: in bug 1386620, which you verified, there is mention of a potential regression regarding modesetting. Can you comment on your testing of that?
[18:37] <mlankhorst> bdmurray: basically I had to backport an awful lot of patches for that
[19:22] <tjaalton> bdmurray: I've unverified that one, will double-check tomorrow but iirc there wasn't anything
[19:24] <bdmurray> tjaalton: okay, thanks!
[19:24] <bdmurray> tkamppeter: Could you have a look at bug 1348384? It seems to be related to an SRU you did.
[20:19] <infinity> tjaalton: Hey, who's doing the lts-utopic X stack this time around?
[20:19] <infinity> mlankhorst: ^
[20:23]  * dobey can't wait for new kernel/x/intel
[20:23] <infinity> dobey: New kernel is there.  Someone seems to be slacking on the new X bit, though. :)
[20:23] <dobey> infinity: there == in proposed, or in updates?
[20:24] <infinity> dobey: updates.
[20:24] <dobey> ooh
[20:24]  * dobey makes a note to install it
[20:24] <dobey> infinity: i guess new intel drivers aren't in yet though?
[20:24] <infinity> dobey: Not any userspace component of such.
[20:25] <dobey> i wonder if those will come with the updated xorg
[20:28] <infinity> dobey: Usually seems to work that way.
[20:31]  * dobey goes to order a displayport 1.2 cable
[20:35] <mlankhorst> infinity: oh I've had x-stack in canonical-x/x-staging for ages
[20:35] <infinity> mlankhorst: Perhaps that's not the best place for it if we want it to actually make the point release? ;)
[20:36] <mlankhorst> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/ubuntu/x-staging/+packages
[20:36] <mlankhorst> yeah, I guess it's SRU time
[20:37] <mlankhorst> I need xtrans, x11proto-core, x11proto-fonts, and libdrm updated
[20:37] <mlankhorst> llvm-toolchain-3.5 should be new
[20:39] <dobey> mlankhorst: are you updating intel-gup-tools, libdrm-intel and xserver-xorg-video-intel too?
[21:32] <tjaalton> infinity: right, it's been on that ppa for a while, now would be the time to get them to the archive
[21:33] <infinity> tjaalton: A few weeks ago might have been the time, but now's really the time. :)
[21:34] <tjaalton> heh, indeed
[22:51] <ricotz> Trevinho, hi, mesa-git-builds in xedgers should support mir now
[22:57] <Logan_> infinity: wanna do me a favor? :D
[22:57] <Logan_> it's not much of a favor
[22:57] <Logan_> I just need a no-change rebuild of a package in main
[22:59] <infinity> Logan_: Sure.
[23:00] <Logan_> one sec, doing a test build
[23:01] <Logan_> infinity: please do a no-change rebuild of gst0.10-python with the following changelog entry:
[23:01] <Logan_> No-change rebuild against new binutils to fix istanbul FTBFS on ppc64el.
[23:03] <ari-tczew> "Generated at 2014-12-06 20:13:15 UTC."
[23:03] <infinity> Logan_: That... Might need some explaining.
[23:03] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: MoM seems to be broken. ^
[23:03] <Logan_> infinity: sure - so you know the change that was made to binutils to properly support ppc64el in Debian?
[23:03] <Logan_> the one we talked about a few weeks ago
[23:04] <Logan_> it turns out that is does more than just fix FTBFS without autoreconf; it also fixes some shared libraries
[23:04] <infinity> Logan_: I feel like either you had this conversation with someone else, or I'm losing my mind. ;)
[23:04] <Logan_> oops, well, in any case
[23:05] <Logan_> istanbul currently FTBFS on ppc64el because it can't find the gst0.10-python library
[23:05] <Logan_> and that was shown in the build log on Debian
[23:05] <Logan_> but, after rebuilding gst0.10-python against the new binutils and then rebuilding istanbul in Debian, it found the library properly
[23:05] <Logan_> so we should do the same
[23:06] <infinity> Logan_: Right, so istanbul has nothing to do with this.  gst0.10-python just plain doesn't have a shared library in it, and it should have FTBFS because of it but didn't.
[23:06] <infinity> checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld -m elf64ppc) supports shared libraries... no
[23:07] <infinity> The usual suspect.
[23:07] <Logan_> right, but rebuilding it should produce the shared library
[23:07] <Logan_> because of the binutils change
[23:07] <infinity> Let me verify that.
[23:07] <infinity> And also, still not happy with that binutils change.
[23:07] <infinity> Seems too magic to me.
[23:07] <Logan_> seems to work, though
[23:08] <Logan_> it definitely produces the shared libraries properly, without an autoreconf in most cases
[23:08] <Logan_> I've been dropping our autoreconf delta when it builds properly in Debian on ppc64el
[23:09]  * infinity taps his foot waiting on build-deps to install.
[23:10] <Logan_> you need apt-fast
[23:10] <Logan_> or something.
[23:11] <infinity> checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld -m elf64ppc) supports shared libraries... yes
[23:11] <infinity> Looks promising.
[23:11] <Logan_> you have a ppc64el porter box?
[23:11] <infinity> Yeah.
[23:11] <Logan_> like, physical?
[23:11] <infinity> It's not imaginary.
[23:12] <Logan_> :)
[23:12] <infinity> -rw-r--r-- root/root     18336 2014-12-08 23:11 ./usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstpython.so
[23:12] <infinity> Handy.
[23:13] <Logan_> oh cool, you can get a ppc64el VM for free here: http://openpower.ic.unicamp.br/minicloud/
[23:13] <Logan_> I might just do that
[23:13] <infinity> Uploaded.
[23:14] <Logan_> sweet, thanks
[23:15] <tkamppeter> bdmurray, thanks. I have CCed the author of the SRU patch for bug 1242678, Marek, Kasik.


[05:30] <Kilos> morning all and sundry
[06:34] <Kilos> morning again
[06:34] <Kilos> so tired of bad internet
[08:41] <Kilos> hey inetpro where is QA
[08:41] <Kilos> hi zoidbergwill
[08:42] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za if no one has welcomed you before
[08:56] <Kilos> Maaz ask superfly Hi soop has QA died?
[08:56] <Maaz> Kilos: Righto, I'll ask superfly on freenode
[09:49] <lquidfire> morning all (:
[10:45] <zoidbergwill> Hey Kilos
[10:46] <zoidbergwill> Thanks, a few others have :P
[15:18] <theblazehen> Anyone here know perl?


[13:13] <abentley> sinzui: How's it coming with staging?
[13:13] <sinzui> abentley, ghastly
[13:13] <abentley> sinzui: Anything I can do to help?
[13:13] <sinzui> abentley, Two efforts to create apache have failed
[13:14] <abentley> sinzui: Yikes.
[13:14] <sinzui> abentley, Both deploys never got an IP, the agent state is pending
[13:14] <abentley> sinzui: Is it the IP address shortage?  That would cause machines to fail to spin up at the nova level.
[13:15] <sinzui> abentley, and somehow I lost my branch that sanitises categories
[13:16] <sinzui> abentley, I have been using w3m and can confirm charmworld + mongodb + elasticsearch are happy
[13:16] <rick_h> sinzui: one trick there is to expose the charmworld app and it'll be present on the port 6543 I think? or 2464, whatever we default to now.
[13:17] <abentley> sinzui: Well, we could tranfer the external IP address to the charmworld app server if necessary.
[13:17] <sinzui> abentley, as rick_h wrote, the port will be 6543
[13:18] <sinzui> abentley, Note I still see 645b2404-9179-4a8b-8136-7f238964aa6b | juju staging instance 4
[13:18] <sinzui> ^ that is the zombie Juju thinks it destroyed
[13:18]  * sinzui ponders nova as a means to decommission the instance
[13:19] <abentley> sinzui: You used terminate-machine?  I am not sure whether it is reliable.
[13:20] <abentley> sinzui: The problem with terminating via nova is that the IP address famine means someone could take the address of that machine and we'd be unable to start a replacement.
[13:21] <sinzui> abentley, right
[13:21] <abentley> sinzui: Perhaps we should move staging to lcy01, but we'll need a new external IP address, so we'll need to re-map DNS.
[13:22] <sinzui> While I can use nova to suspend/resume, I cannot so anything that permits us to gain access to what runs in the vm.
[13:22] <abentley> sinzui: Rebooting doesn't help?
[13:22] <sinzui> abentley, we cannot ssh into it
[13:23] <abentley> sinzui: We cannot ssh into it in order to reboot it, or we cannot ssh into it after we reboot?
[13:23] <sinzui> before
[13:23] <sinzui> I could not ssh into it to see what was up and fallback to reboot
[13:24] <sinzui> I didn't see an alternate means to get into the instance using nova
[13:24] <abentley> sinzui: There is a "nova reboot" command.
[13:25] <sinzui> Didn't do anything for me yesterday.
[13:25] <abentley> sinzui: what about get-vnc-console?
[13:25] <sinzui> I don't know about that
[13:26] <sinzui> oh.
[13:27]  * sinzui checks backscroll
[13:27] <sinzui> abentley, we might have a chance now
[13:27] <sinzui> reboot failed yesterday (while the instance was running), I destroyed two services since then and the reboot says I have an agent
[13:28] <abentley> sinzui: woot!
[13:29] <sinzui> We are now waiting for the third replacement apache to start and join charmworld
[14:14] <hatch> morning
[14:14] <rick_h> party on hatch
[14:15] <hatch> looks like haswells are starting to make it into the lenovo's http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/09/lenovos-t440s-thinkpad-coming-soon/
[14:22] <abentley> sinzui: The options migration failed deployment.  I've rolled back to r298.  Should be simple to fix, so I won'd do a rollback.
[14:22] <hatch> it will probably still only have an HDMI out making it useless for me heh
[14:22] <abentley> sinzui: i.e. I won't land a revert for now.
[14:22] <sinzui> abentley, understood
[14:29] <rick_h> luca: gary_poster has there been talk about any limitations to the autocomplete results? For example, only reviewed charms?
[14:33] <jcsackett> sinzui: chat?
[14:33] <sinzui> yes
[14:34] <jcsackett> sending invite.
[14:34] <luca> rick_h: not along those lines, gary_poster might have a plan but I'm not sure
[14:35] <hatch> rick_h: luca he is away today
[14:36] <luca> rick_h: hatch want to talk it through in about 10 mins?
[14:36] <hatch> well isn't it trivial to add filters to the ac results?
[14:36] <rick_h> luca: that's ok. I just wanted to double check as the approach is a bit different each way.
[14:37] <rick_h> hatch: well, basically it comes down to using a full model and token widgets to display the completion suggestions vs not.
[14:38] <hatch> ohh - ok well I would say use the token widget and then if we need to use ones with less information we can handle that in the GUI
[14:38] <rick_h> hatch: right, there's a bunch of logic on which icon to display, the reviewed badge, etc that would need to be duped and I'm trying to think through a DRY around all that.
[14:38] <rick_h> hatch: but, if we're only completing reviewed charm none of that logic matters so figured I'd ask :)
[14:39] <hatch> what makes a charm 'reviewed'
[14:39] <hatch> how long do they sit unreviewed?
[14:39] <rick_h> hatch: they're reviewed by a couple of the ~charmers team and most will probably never be reviewed.
[14:40] <hatch> never be reviewed?
[14:40] <rick_h> hatch: yea, if you fork the mysql charm and upload it to use it, it'll never really be reviewed as there's an official reviewed mysql charm out there.
[14:41] <hatch> ohh hmm
[14:41] <hatch> so the AC will only show 'approved' charms but the full search results will show all of them?
[14:41] <rick_h> hatch: yea, that's kind of the question. A/C is a method to shortcut to a selected charm.
[14:42] <rick_h> luca: hatch yea, let's chat if that's ok. I'd like to talk it out.
[14:42] <hatch> haha ok give me a few minutes
[14:44] <hatch> rick_h: luca in guichat
[14:52] <Makyo> luca, I've got a question when you have a moment.
[14:57] <luca> hatch: rick_h do we need to talk about search? I'll have a prototype to show you in roughly 5 mins?
[14:57] <hatch> sure pop in real quick
[15:10] <rick_h> abentley: got a sec to chat?
[15:10] <abentley> rick_h: Okay.
[15:12] <rick_h> luca: can you join in this call real quick? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8e337c1da033485408fb4e6723267db4247e4f42?hl=en
[15:13] <luca> rick_h: sure
[15:17] <Makyo> jujugui, Can I add libpeerconnection.log to .bzrignore?  It seems to be an empty file generated on test-server.
[15:17] <bac> SGTM
[15:18] <rick_h> sinzui: can you join the hangout ^^ please? Have a sec that is?
[15:18] <teknico> Makyo: ok to me
[15:19] <hatch> Makyo: let er rip
[15:19] <Makyo> Thanks.  Will be in review in a mo'.,
[15:20] <jcastro> augh, everytime I have to go to old jujucharms.com do to something I get disgusted.
[15:20] <jcastro> new GUI is sooooo nice
[15:21]  * hatch is glad that was before his time
[15:21] <hatch> ;)
[15:38] <abentley> orangesquad: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/config-storage-2/+merge/173757 >
[15:39] <sinzui> I can
[15:39] <sinzui> abentley, r-me
[15:40] <sinzui> r=me
[15:43] <rick_h> Makyo: looking at your branch. Are you only dealing with the icon if it's got one and not going to display the fallbacks then?
[15:44] <Makyo> rick_h, for this branch, yes.  I need to get on to a first pass at updating the service block SVGs today.
[15:44] <rick_h> Makyo: ok.
[15:45] <Makyo> luca, need to ask you about those when you have a chance.
[15:45] <rick_h> Makyo: if you get to the fallbacks let me know. I'm finding that maybe that work should be abstracted out of the template file in charm-token.handlebars and more into a model or helper somewhere.
[15:45] <Makyo> rick_h, alright.  I didn't dig too much into that, but I will.
[15:46] <rick_h> Makyo: yea, it's not in an easy place for you to reuse like this atm.
[15:46] <luca> Makyo: I'm free now if you are
[15:48] <Makyo> luca, the email you sent had the black squircles with the connectors slightly extended.  however, in the UX/styling demo, it's that black outline surrounding the original service block. Which direction should I head in?
[15:48] <abentley> sinzui: did you set the revno to 300?
[15:49] <sinzui> abentley, I did not
[15:49] <abentley> sinzui: Hmm.  Maybe tarmac's back, then.
[15:49] <rick_h> abentley: yea, I assumed it came back up when I got the 'jenkins is back to normal' email
[15:49] <luca> Makyo: the normal state should be this: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1QkNacGhCX0hXNW8/edit?usp=sharing
[15:50] <luca> Makyo: clicked/hover state: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1eUIzbFNjZjdyMEU/edit?usp=sharing
[15:50] <Makyo> luca, alright. Was just curious after seeing https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10004366/juju-gui/index.html
[15:50] <luca> Makyo: When it's just been added to the canvas it should show the charm icon instead of the health circle
[15:51] <Makyo> luca, the charm icon branch is in review right now.
[15:51] <luca> Makyo: yeah, Ant hasn't implemented the block stuff yet
[15:51] <luca> Makyo: nice :)
[15:51] <abentley> rick_h: Oh.  I don't get those.
[15:51] <Makyo> luca, alright, cool.  Will aim to have that for today.
[15:51] <luca> Makyo: nice, thanks
[15:52] <abentley> sinzui: second time's the charm with prepare-upgrade.
[15:52] <Makyo> jujugui call in 8
[15:52] <Makyo> Kanban now.
[15:52] <hatch> what he said!
[15:54] <luca> sinzui: who do I talk to about "Useful links"?
[15:54] <hatch> google
[15:54] <hatch> *snicker*
[15:55] <Makyo> Brat :)
[15:55] <luca> rofl
[15:56] <sinzui> luca, me I think.
[15:56] <luca> sinzui: ah, well, they are being moved to a section in the summary tab
[15:56] <luca> sinzui: the designs will be finished tomorrow
[15:56] <sinzui> understood luca
[15:57] <luca> sinzui: cool, thanks :)
[15:58] <sinzui> luca, jcastro, jcsackett. I just tested what users see when sharing a juju-gui URL using G+ itself. It was a private post with you so that we can see what the experience is like.
[15:59] <hatch> jujugui guichat now
[16:00] <jcastro> sinzui: oh yeah, there's some metadata G+ expects
[16:01] <jcastro> we should make it so the charm's icon is automatically in there
[16:01] <jcastro> I was just looking this up the other day, investigating
[16:01] <sinzui> +1
[16:02] <jcastro> sinzui: here it is
[16:02] <jcastro> https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/176035?hl=en
[16:02] <jcastro> http://schema.org/docs/gs.html#microdata_how
[16:02] <jcastro> https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets
[16:05] <luca> sinzui: can we discuss sharing?
[16:08] <teknico> Makyo: one thing I noticed is that the install hook does not install the python-cheetah package, which it indirectly uses
[16:09] <Makyo> teknico, hmm.  Okay, will poke around there.
[16:09] <teknico> Makyo: thanks
[16:10] <Makyo> teknico, what I'm seeing from the GUI is it's not passing the cs: schema when it tries to deploy, so I get juju.charm.errors.CharmURLError: Bad charm URL u\'~marcoceppi/precise/discourse-18\': a URL with a user must specify a schema\n
[16:11] <rick_h> Makyo: that might need tweaking when converting from BrowserCharm to Charm models during deploy
[16:11] <rick_h> Makyo: that cs: url is in the BrowserCharm.code_source object I believe.
[16:11] <Makyo> rick_h, ah, alright.  I'll poke around the deploy stuff where it does that conversion.
[16:11] <rick_h> Makyo: sorry, BrowserCharm.url is where it's at
[16:11] <rick_h> that's the cs: url
[16:12] <rick_h> http://manage.jujucharms.com/api/2/charm/precise/apache2-2 shows an example json dump that turns into the model Makyo
[16:12] <Makyo> \o/ thanks
[16:16] <Makyo> rick_h, teknico, in app/views/charm-panel.js line 873, the deployer is only getting the id attribute; is that where it would need the URL?
[16:16] <Makyo> Deployer's the wrong word.  The deploy function that's passed to the browser.
[16:18] <rick_h> Makyo: so yea, that charm model should have a url attribute. I'm not sure what you're doing the cs: stuff for so can't say what's up with _setPanel()
[16:21] <teknico> Makyo: no, if the passed-in function is the one at line 760, it only needs the charm id
[16:21] <luca> jcastro: sinzui rick_h who do I need to talk to about sharing?
[16:22] <sinzui> I am one of them
[16:22] <jcastro> luca: I am also one
[16:22] <luca> jcastro:
[16:22] <jcastro> I did the little text for the twitter section
[16:22] <luca> jcastro: wrong person
[16:22] <luca> jcastro: oops
[16:22] <luca> sinzui: lets talk quickly on a hangout?
[16:22] <luca> jcastro: ^
[16:22] <sinzui> okay
[16:23] <Makyo> teknico, ah, okay.  Either way, it looks like the id is ~marcoceppi/precise/discourse, and it should have a schema on the beginning when it actually deploys.
[16:23] <teknico> Makyo: right
[16:23] <rick_h> Makyo: right, but we don't consider the schema part of the id in the model and the api.
[16:23] <rick_h> Makyo: so the id will never have that, it's the url
[16:24] <Makyo> rick_h, Yeah, so we should be able to just change that, I think.  Which is maaaaybe line 605?
[16:24] <Makyo> var url = charm.get('id');
[16:24] <luca> sinzui: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2302ec8be280f94a7841473e1dbbc7e8e43cb204?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:24] <luca> jcastro: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2302ec8be280f94a7841473e1dbbc7e8e43cb204?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:24] <rick_h> Makyo: looks ok from there, but not familiar enough to say 'go for it'
[16:26] <jcastro> luca: I am EODing in a minute, only working a half day today and I have a charm championship page to do still
[16:26] <jcastro> luca: whatever you guys decide just lmk
[16:27] <teknico> uhm, how do we get the schema in there? I cannot see it
[16:29] <Makyo> teknico, just change it to var url = charm.get('url'), looks like.
[16:29] <Makyo> I set a breakpoint there and checked charm.getAttrs()
[16:29] <teknico> oh, good to know, thanks
[16:29] <rick_h> Makyo: teknico right, the url is the url not the id now. Should be good to pull from the model url.
[16:29] <teknico> Makyo: I wonder why it is only a problem with this specific charm, though
[16:30] <rick_h> teknico: no, I think it's a change in the old charm model data vs the new.
[16:30] <Makyo> teknico, I'm thinking it's a problem with all user charms due to the change.
[16:30] <rick_h> Makyo: the one thing I worry about is if an old instance can get in here, but since it's in deploy side I don't think it can
[16:30] <teknico> Makyo: oh, ok then
[16:31] <Makyo> rick_h, yeah.  I think the only way would be if they were to deploy from the old panel, which is now mutually exclusive from the browser.
[16:31] <rick_h> Makyo: right, so I'm pretty sure you're safe with your one-liner change.
[16:31] <rick_h> Makyo: but want to make sure it's clear what the diff is and how it might cascade around a little bit
[16:32] <Makyo> rick_h, Yeah.  I think it'd be good to go through a bunch of different types of charms and ways of deploying (DnD and add button) to make sure we're always getting the same sort of info.
[16:32] <rick_h> Makyo: yea, anything that goes through the Browser code will be an instance of BrowserCharm cast into a Charm and that's what's in here.
[16:33] <rick_h> and the api promises that the url will be there.
[16:33] <Makyo> Cool, that should help, yeah.
[16:36] <bcsaller> bac: I made review changes and reproposed if you have time to look that branch over again: https://codereview.appspot.com/11013043/
[16:39] <bcsaller> hatch: you might want to look at the method renamings in that branch and see if you're still happy with them
[16:39] <hatch> yup reading it now
[16:39] <hatch> well reading the replies
[16:39] <hatch> I have come to love rebind :)
[16:40] <hatch> what's POJO?
[16:40] <teknico> Makyo: great, thanks a lot for the help!
[16:41] <Makyo> teknico, cheers
[16:47] <hatch> bcsaller: I can't deploy a service and then view it using the new service inspector
[16:48] <bcsaller> hatch: Plain Old Java(Script) Objects, comes from java but means plain Object derivatives
[16:48] <hatch> ohh
[16:48] <hatch> DD ceph, click deploy, click it to view inspector...console error
[16:48] <bcsaller> so something without the .get method in the case referenced
[16:48] <bcsaller> hmm
[16:49] <hatch> it was a fresh checkout/make of your branch
[16:49] <hatch> Uncaught TypeError: Object [object Array] has no method 'toArray' service.js:1210
[16:50] <teknico> and that charm is also tasteless, that is, it's testless ;-) and written in bash :-P
[16:52] <bcsaller> hatch: able to reproduce locally, looking into it
[16:52] <bcsaller> there is another error past that one
[16:53] <sinzui> rick_h, jcsackett: Did this icon come from the old api (the <charm>/json url) or the new api http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8086/~nextrevision/precise/openvpn-3/
[16:53] <rick_h> sinzui: the icons comes because it has a category of 'application' which is invalid. It needs to be applications (s)
[16:54] <rick_h> sinzui: so the icon comes because of a broken sprite
[16:54] <sinzui> rick_h, I know that...
[16:54] <hatch> bcsaller: alrighty
[16:54] <jcsackett> sinzui: i'm with rick_h, i don't think i understand what you're asking.
[16:54] <rick_h> sinzui: ok, so everything on this page is from the new api
[16:54] <rick_h> sinzui: I'm not 100% following the question I guess.
[16:54] <sinzui> rick_h, Did it get the category from api 2 or /json
[16:54] <rick_h> sinzui: api2
[16:55] <sinzui> rock. This is fixed on staging
[16:55]  * sinzui is still scouring the network requests to convince himself the /json url was not called
[16:56] <rick_h> sinzui: ah, yea. Use chrome, load the page with the network tab open, then click the 'xhr' button on the bottom of the tools
[16:57] <sinzui> thank you for reminding me about the filter. I am incompetent rick_h
[16:57] <bcsaller> hatch: ahh, shallow, the changes around model handling didn't propagate through the modellist handler properly, it was calling selectBindModel on its own product
[16:58] <rick_h> sinzui: cool, darn handy tool in our network waterfall for sure.
[17:06] <hatch> bcsaller: ahhh
[17:07] <bcsaller> hatch: I'm now able to create the error we talked about before where an old inspector (two services on canvas, switch to second) is still running in the background. Not related to this branch, but an issue
[17:08] <hatch> crud I thought your branch would solve that
[17:08] <hatch> arg
[17:08] <hatch> *I hoped*
[17:10] <hatch> I just got rank burnt by order of operations
[17:10]  * hatch goes to grab the aloe and a grade 4 text book
[17:12] <bcsaller> hatch: I think I see the fix though, its just not calling the right things in the inspector singleton mgmt code
[17:13] <bcsaller> trying a fix now
[17:13] <hatch> cool thanks
[17:19] <luca> hatch: Makyo who do we need to talk about relations and building them?
[17:20] <Makyo> luca, Sure.  At this point, I think we'll be able to implement most things reasonably quickly, just need a direction to head in.
[17:20] <hatch> luca: I hear there are a lot of good dating sites in London
[17:21] <Makyo> :P
[17:21] <hatch> haha ok sorry
[17:21] <hatch> yeah I am pretty confident the code is all there it's just the interaction we want to narrow down
[17:21] <hatch> narrow/peg down
[17:22] <hatch> right now the 'long click' isn't discoverable
[17:22] <hatch> thenagain, neither was the menu
[17:22] <luca> Makyo: we will join guichat in 2 mins :)
[17:23] <Makyo> luca, alright
[17:23] <hatch> can I join in on this too?
[17:23] <Makyo> Sure
[17:23] <hatch> cool
[17:23] <hatch> http://jsbin.com/evehit/6
[17:24] <hatch> pretty cool :)
[17:24] <hatch> it looks/feels the best in firefox
[17:24] <hatch> that's just because it has easing on it's scrolling
[17:25] <Makyo> hatch, we're starting.
[17:25] <hatch> sorry guichat was having issue connecting
[17:33] <bcsaller> hatch: I pushed fixes to the outstanding issues, it properly unbind now
[17:33] <hatch> awesome!
[17:33] <hatch> thanks
[17:36]  * Makyo runs out to pick up dogs.
[17:37] <hatch> jcsackett: I saw your reply on the bug - are you in Chrome as well?
[17:37] <rick_h> hatch: what version of chrome are you running? Maybe a version thing?
[17:37] <hatch> OSX - 27.0
[17:38] <rick_h> hatch: k, 29 here so shouldn't be a version issue then
[17:38] <hatch> odd my Ubuntu Chrome is 28
[17:38] <hatch> are you running the beta channel?
[17:39] <rick_h> dev channel
[17:39] <hatch> ahh gotcha
[17:39] <hatch> so many chrome versions haha
[17:39] <rick_h> should only be 3 :)
[17:39] <rick_h> stable, beta, dev
[17:39] <hatch> yeah then for each OS
[17:39] <hatch> haha
[17:39] <rick_h> but they're released together
[17:40] <hatch> who knows, maybe my osx hasn't made the rounds yet
[17:41] <rick_h> 27 would be stabel, 28 beta, 29 dev
[17:41] <hatch> yeah my Ubuntu is on stable I thought
[17:41] <hatch> who knows
[17:41] <rick_h> I'd guess not
[17:41] <hatch> bcsaller: QA'ing again
[17:42] <hatch> bcsaller: heh you're gona be maaaaad at me
[17:42] <hatch> I found another bugt
[17:42] <bcsaller> doh
[17:43] <hatch> hmm can't repro now...
[17:43] <hatch> possible cache issue
[17:43] <hatch> ok nope there it is
[17:44] <hatch> DD ceph, deploy, inspector, click <- S, E, D, Units
[17:44] <hatch> then the toArray error shows in the console
[17:45] <hatch> I think the error occurs when  a change comes in on the delta
[17:45] <hatch> it's very odd I can't seem to repro all the time
[17:46] <hatch> ahh if you follow those steps
[17:46] <hatch> then just let it sit
[17:46] <hatch> it'll eventually error
[17:49] <bcsaller> hatch: I'd seen something like that as well, thought it was fixed, but looking into it now
[17:49] <hatch> great
[17:50] <bcsaller> I see the real issue
[18:07] <benji> hatch: are you available for a short chat about transitions in a couple of minutes
[18:11] <hatch> i am
[18:11] <hatch> ^ benonsoftware
[18:11] <hatch> benji:
[18:11] <hatch> damn autocomplete
[18:11] <hatch> benji: whenever you're ready
[18:12] <benji> hatch: hatch I'm in guichat
[18:19] <bcsaller> hatch: the model list handler was way too aggressive, I'm surprised we didn't see that issue sooner, tough it would have been hard to spot. It was calling render/update on way too many things including non-model list viewlets
[18:19] <bcsaller> hatch: pushed the revision
[18:24] <hatch> ohh heh so this code is way better now then
[18:24] <hatch> haha
[18:27] <bcsaller> hatch: there is still an issue in the updates, but yes as so as I have it properly resolved it will be
[18:54] <hatch> ahh ok
[18:54] <hatch> (sorry was on call with benji)
[18:57] <bcsaller> hatch: a fix is pushed if you can verify it as well when you have time
[18:57] <bcsaller> seems to be working fine here
[18:59] <hatch> ok will pull down
[19:02] <hatch> bcsaller: looks good
[19:02] <hatch> propose?
[19:05] <bcsaller> hatch: I'll push it up again, just takes so long :(
[19:06] <hatch> ohhh I know
[19:06] <hatch> it would be cool if we could have some super powerful box sitting around we could get to pull down the branch and build
[19:09] <hatch> I have a spare server that's probably faster but not by enough that it would make a difference having to 'build' to run the tests
[19:16] <bcsaller> hatch: proposed again, quite a lot of fixes on that branch now
[19:17] <hatch> haha yeah...
[19:23] <hatch> bcsaller: do you think there should be tests for the edge cases which you just solved?
[19:25] <bcsaller> hatch: ideally yes :-/
[19:26] <hatch> you just want to land this branch don't you?
[19:26] <hatch> ;)
[19:28] <hatch> tbh I'd like to see this land so I can get on wit my branch
[19:28] <hatch> followup with tests?
[19:30] <abentley> orangesquad: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/autocomplete/+merge/173799 ?
[19:30] <bcsaller> hatch: I'll make a carc
[19:30] <bcsaller> hatch: I'll make a card
[19:30]  * sinzui looks
[19:34] <hatch> bcsaller: lgtm'd
[19:34] <bcsaller> jujugui: one more +1 needed for https://codereview.appspot.com/11013043/
[19:34] <benji> bcsaller: looking
[19:35] <bcsaller> thanks
[19:35] <hatch> careful....there be dragons
[19:35] <hatch> now I fully expect my branch to explode after merging it in :)
[19:38] <sinzui> abentley, what do you think will happen if the autocomplete query is for 'fo%20'. I think this becomes 'fo ' and it doesn't match anything and it doesn't break anything.
[19:39] <sinzui> but maybe some smart function strips the trailing space
[19:39] <abentley> sinzui: My guess is that it would match any charms whose names began with 'fo ', but we don't have any.
[19:40] <sinzui> I think the gui needs to be certain to strip whitespace. A leading space will be confusing
[19:40] <hatch> it would be cool if you could do a forEach on an array in reverse
[19:40] <hatch> (without tricks)
[19:41] <sinzui> abentley, r=me
[19:41] <abentley> sinzui: Thanks.
[19:45] <sinzui> abentley, This is my thoughts about the svg problem: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5859420/
[19:47] <abentley> sinzui: I find the notion of a 96x96 vector graphic confusing.  Don't they just need to be square?
[19:48] <sinzui> abentley, Yes in the big picture. The template svg specifies the default rendering is 96x96
[19:49] <sinzui> we can detect if the default template was not used. I don't want to enforce the template
[19:51] <sinzui> abentley, svgs DO have width and height attributes and even if the template is not used, detecting unsupported dimensions is trivial
[19:52] <abentley> sinzui: Ok.
[19:54] <sinzui> abentley, Do we care about file size? DoSing the gui is bad. Well, I think we know something about this because the wikimedia icon contains a fat png
[19:54] <abentley> sinzui: I was going to just use python-magic and reject anything that wasn't svg.  Going so far as to validate images doesn't seem like it should be our problem.  Maybe proof should do that?
[19:54] <sinzui> abentley, I think proof should do that. proof is run after we build the CharmFileSet
[19:55] <sinzui> We can call magic as we build the set
[19:56] <abentley> sinzui: As an advocate for the backend, my only concern about file size would be on the ingest side.  On output, we have solid caching.
[19:57] <abentley> sinzui: In terms of the GUI, it shouldn't be an issue, because only promulgated charms are going to show their icons.
[19:57] <sinzui> abentley, apache2 and wikimedia are both promulgated.
[19:58] <sinzui> one has a png and the other has an embedded png
[19:59] <sinzui> abentley, we wouldn't be treating this issue as a bug of the mistakes in the icons were fixed in April when we discovered the problem
[20:00] <abentley> sinzui: Right, but the maintainers aren't malicious.  I assume the svg-with-embedded-PNG is a legitimate wikipedia logo that just happens to be big.  It's not a DoS, though, and is only going to affect those who encounter that charm.
[20:01] <abentley> sinzui: If you want to cap file size, it's fine by me.
[20:01] <sinzui> abentley, I think you prefer that we do the minimum to ingest to deal with this issue (use magic to reject liars). Update proof to demand the issue be fixed
[20:01] <sinzui> I can update proof. I have other fixes I want to add to it
[20:02] <abentley> sinzui: I think that's accurate.
[20:02]  * sinzui ponders how proof could be taught to report that the maintainer is wrong because the branch owner is different
[20:02] <sinzui> well that is not a good idea
[20:03] <sinzui> Teams will often own charms, but they will rarely have email addresses
[20:04] <abentley> sinzui: I don't think proof can know what the branch owner will be.
[20:04] <abentley> sinzui: Unless we tell it, I suppose.
[20:05] <sinzui> I really want to set my own juju agenda. The package-origin and maintainer-owner problems lead to confusion and are vulnerabilities that no one is talking about
[20:06] <abentley> sinzui: Maybe we should overwrite maintainer with branch owner at ingest time?
[20:06] <abentley> sinzui: I don't see a lot of value in having them vary.
[20:07] <sinzui> That hides errors. But we could record that we know there is something wrong. Write now, we know it because we few can see the problem
[20:07] <sinzui> right now ^
[20:08] <abentley> sinzui: I go back and forth on whether the maintainer field has any value.  The fact that it's so often wrong suggests it's not important.
[20:08] <sinzui> abentley, rick_h brought up the author/owner issue in regards to the charm token today. User do need to see both, and they need to know that something is wrong when they differ
[20:09] <sinzui> abentley, juju certainly doesn't require it.
[20:09] <abentley> sinzui: Author is a third thing.  That's something you get from bzr metadata :-)
[20:09] <sinzui> The field is flawed since teams can own branched, but not have email addresses
[20:09] <sinzui> indeed
[20:13] <sinzui> abentley, I think the charm/branch owner is who juju and the community cares about. The maintainer field is a means for a the owner to provide the preferred contact address. This too is unneeded if juju and juju-gui could point to Lp about how to contact or contribute
[20:15] <abentley> sinzui: Makes sense.
[20:19] <abentley> rick_h: autocomplete is implemented on staging.
[20:21] <abentley> sinzui: I am ready for new work and assume it should be versions.  Chat?
[20:21] <sinzui> abentley, yes and yes
[20:39] <bcsaller> hatch: that should be landed and ready for you to merge
[21:18] <hatch> bcsaller: thanks yas
[21:34] <hatch> bcsaller: Makyo I think you can drag your branches into the done column :)
[21:34] <Makyo> hatch, yep, thnks
[21:36] <hatch> Makyo: you aren't going to make us QA this SVG code are you? ;_
[21:36] <hatch> ;)
[21:37] <Makyo> hatch, I totally am.  Lucky for you, all it requires is for you to deploy a service.
[21:38] <hatch> *phew*
[21:39] <Makyo> Well, preferably two services, and create a relation.
[21:40] <hatch> welllll O K
[21:40] <hatch> :)
[21:40] <hatch> reviewing
[21:42] <hatch> Makyo: rgb color?
[21:42] <Makyo> hatch, yanked from the demo.
[21:42] <hatch> I don't care either way, we should probably stick with one or the other :)
[21:42] <Makyo> hatch, I can see about converting, though.
[21:42] <Makyo> hatch, yeah.
[21:42] <hatch> colorpicker.com
[21:42] <hatch> is what I use :)
[21:42] <Makyo> Thanks.
[21:43] <hatch> rgb(a) kind of makes more sense for our support matrix buuuuuuuut whichever :)
[21:43] <Makyo> Yeah
[21:43] <hatch> I care so litle about it I'm not even going to comment on the review :D
[21:44] <hatch> twice today I've run 'make' in the root dir and wondered why there were no 'make targets'
[21:44] <hatch> today is just not a good day for me
[21:44] <hatch> heh
[21:47] <hatch> Makyo: hmm....I kind of like the icon in there instead of the little circle :)
[21:47] <hatch> although the functionality of it would be way less heh
[21:47] <Makyo> I think that's the direction we're heading eventually.
[21:49] <hatch> lgtm'd with a super trivial comment
[21:58] <bcsaller> Makyo: is there a reason to not use the icon post ghosting? was that talked about or just an artifact or wires possibly not being updated?
[21:58] <hatch> I dont' think it SHOULD be there because then the status indicators are gone
[21:58] <hatch> and tha'ts the most important part :)
[21:59] <bcsaller> 'it' being the icon?
[22:00] <hatch> yeaaah
[22:00] <hatch> hmm my a key is sticking
[22:00] <bcsaller> I thought it was icon and centered under that the status color bar, but I've seen so many wires I can't keep it straight
[22:01] <hatch> ohh...hmm I didn't that one existed
[22:01] <hatch> lol I'm in the same boat I guess haha
[22:02] <hatch> jcastro: what is an 'Ubuntu Member' ? Could I be one and not know it?
[22:04] <Makyo> We don't have any designs for that either way, bcsaller hatch.  I just have the two cards and don't want to put too much effort into trying to outguess london :)
[22:04] <hatch> probably a good idea ;)
[22:04] <hatch> I definitely don't have a good track record of anticipating their next move lol
[22:04] <bcsaller> never try to outguess London ;)
[22:06] <hatch> the new twitter app for android has a different font
[22:07] <Makyo> Haha
[22:07] <Makyo> Better, hatch?
[22:07] <hatch> what's better?
[22:08] <hatch> my coffee is still empty
[22:08] <Makyo> Twitter font.
[22:08] <hatch> ohh
[22:08] <hatch> was gona say, if you were filling my coffee...then no
[22:08] <Makyo> I only use it occasionally, but I like seeing what they do with design.
[22:08] <hatch> wrt the twitter font - then yes :D
[22:08] <Makyo> hatch, Gladly., as long as espresso's good
[22:09] <hatch> sure - I usually just drink 'normal' which I think is called an americano
[22:09] <hatch> because I'm sure a watered down espresso is the same as drip :)
[22:09] <Makyo> Bah.  I think they taste totally different.
[22:10] <Makyo> read: I totally like Americanos better.
[22:10] <hatch> I'm not much of a connoisseur I guess
[22:10] <rick_h> abentley: thanks!
[22:10] <hatch> I just take whatever the drip is....black
[22:14] <Makyo> Reflux made me appreciate tasty coffee that doesn't make me sick all that much more.  Espresso machine seems to be the best bet.
[22:14] <Makyo> And tastiest.
[22:14] <Makyo> Never got into cold-brew.
[22:14] <rick_h> moka pot ftw is my new thing
[22:14] <rick_h> that and a nespresso frother. best camping trip evar!
[22:15] <hatch> frothed milk makes me kind want to hurl
[22:15] <Makyo> I looove the coffee from those things, rick_h, but still a little too much for my stomach in the morning.
[22:15] <rick_h> it doesn't froth soy very well, more that it warms it up to coffee temp so that it's not cold milk into hot coffee
[22:15] <Makyo> Good post-breakfast coffee, though.
[22:16] <rick_h> Makyo: yea, I've never been a home-coffee person but some vanilla soy into my moka pot brew has me saving the starbucks $$
[22:16] <rick_h> and a LOT less than an espresso machine
[22:16] <bcsaller> ugh, you're all making me want more Espresso, back to the kitchen with me
[22:16] <Makyo> rick_h, Definitely!  I'm more almond milk, myself, but yeah :)
[22:16] <Makyo> \o/
[22:17] <rick_h> Makyo: I want to try some of that next. I wish they had smaller containers at the store :/
[22:17] <Makyo> rick_h, Yeah, half-gallons are all I can find.  Makes good white russians, though, so we tend to go through it quickly enough.
[22:18] <rick_h> hah!
[22:20] <rick_h> lovely, chrome won't open on the laptop :(
[22:25] <hatch> uh oh
[22:27] <rick_h> looks like it might be the new hangouts app installed on there. I'll have to look up how to start sans-apps/extensions and try to remove it
[22:29] <hatch> time to format, install Windows
[22:29]  * hatch runs
[22:29] <hatch> hehe
[22:30] <rick_h> heh, or use Firefox...ahhhhh!
[22:30] <hatch> haha - I have noticed that FF is actually a rather enjoyable browsing experience
[22:30] <hatch> chrome is still faster
[22:30] <hatch> but ff is 'smoother' heh
[22:31] <rick_h> hmmm, fails in incognito mode too :(
[22:31] <hatch> uh oh
[22:31] <rick_h> dev tools for me
[22:31] <rick_h> chrome dev tools ftw
[22:31] <hatch> delete and reinstall?
[22:31] <hatch> oh yeah it's devtools are superior for suuure
[22:35] <rick_h> ok, so starting with a fresh profile works so yea. Just time to reset it up and try to clear what's in it I guess.
[23:00] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:00] <hatch> mornin huwshimi
[23:01] <hatch> I'm so close to getting this sticky header thing done I don't think I'll quit until it's working
[23:03] <huwshimi> hatch: Did you look how Ant did it in the prototype?
[23:03] <hatch> and did it in the prototype already?
[23:03] <hatch> lol damn
[23:03] <hatch> have a link?
[23:06] <hatch> huwshimi: I'm asking because the dropbox one doesn't implement this scrolling
[23:07] <huwshimi> hatch: It might not happen in the inspector but does in the sidebar browser
[23:07] <huwshimi> That's if you have the right link
[23:07] <hatch> pass the link you mean plz
[23:07] <hatch> :)
[23:07] <huwshimi> just finding it
[23:08] <hatch> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10004366/juju-gui/index.html#
[23:08] <hatch> is the one I have
[23:10] <huwshimi> hatch: Yeah, that's the one
[23:10] <hatch> ok then no different scrolling :)
[23:10] <hatch> huwshimi: http://jsbin.com/evehit/7 the bottom stickyness requires overscolling (my calculations are wrong)
[23:11] <hatch> but scroll up and down to see how it works :)
[23:11] <huwshimi> hatch: Are you not trying to make the current heder on the inspector stick to the top as you scroll the inspector content down?
[23:12] <huwshimi> hatch: Oh, you're trying to make them all stick. Are you sure that's correct?
[23:12] <hatch> it better be
[23:12] <hatch> lol
[23:13] <hatch> but yeah that's what Gary said at least
[23:13] <hatch> imho I think this is awesome
[23:14] <huwshimi> hatch: It's just different to how the sticky headers work in the sidebar
[23:15] <huwshimi> I can't tell from these mockups how that's supposed to work...
[23:15] <hatch> ohh right yeah
[23:15] <hatch> I'm pretty sure that's intentional
[23:16] <hatch> my guess is that at some point they will want a 'click to scroll' functionality
[23:16] <hatch> so you can click to scroll to the heading
[23:16] <hatch> all I know.....you have to refresh jsbin every once and a while else it lags
[23:16] <hatch> heh
[23:19] <huwshimi> hatch: If you have the time you could add an option to make all the headers sticky or just one. Otherwise I can do it once your code lands so I can re-use it for the browser and charm details page.
[23:19] <hatch> so once the second header gets to the top it would push the first one away?
[23:20] <huwshimi> hatch: Yep
[23:20] <hatch> that coudl be an option probably
[23:20] <hatch> this is all raw js too so it'll be portable :)
[23:20] <hatch> well for modern browsers
[23:20] <hatch> old browsers can just deal with normal scrolling...
[23:25] <hatch> huwshimi: http://jsbin.com/evehit/8/ done :)
[23:26] <huwshimi> hatch: Nice work
[23:26] <hatch> well
[23:26] <hatch> done my requirement
[23:26] <hatch> yours might take a bit of work yet
[23:26] <hatch> thanks :)
[23:26] <hatch> man that was a friggen pita
[23:29] <hatch> huwshimi: ok so a single sticker header is probably going to be super easy
[23:29] <huwshimi> hatch: Yay!
[23:29] <hatch> I'm not sure it should be the same code though
[23:30] <hatch> it would probably be a more basic implementation
[23:30] <hatch> how soon does that need to be done?
[23:30] <hatch> I'd like to get some other stuff landed first :)
[23:34] <huwshimi> hatch: Well I would like to try and get something landed for the upcoming deadline, but if it's entirely different code I can write something myself if need be...
[23:34] <hatch> well that's probably a little unncessary
[23:34] <hatch> you 'could' even throw in a position sticky polyfil and be done
[23:39] <hatch> uggggh conflicts
[23:42] <hatch> sometimes bzr is so smart....othertimes....heh daymn
[23:42]  * hatch spoiled by source control


[18:19] <pragmaticenigma> Hey friendly neighborhood ops, could someone keep an eye on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(wondows) in #ubuntu. I suspect they're about to show their true colors.
[18:21] <lhavelund> pragmaticenigma: Thanks, will do.
[18:22] <lhavelund> phunyguy: fyi in -ot