[02:07] <thumper> man this channel is quiet in NZ timezones
[02:14] <Nafai> it seems most active during the European timezones
[02:15] <Nafai> which if I'm awake for is a problem :)
[02:31] <TheMuso> thumper: Yeah its somewhat similar for those of us on the desktop team in Australia.
[02:32] <thumper> Nafai: where are you?
[02:44] <Nafai> Utah, USA
[05:30] <didrocks> good morning
[05:59] <hypodermia> hey, guys. just wondering. i have a changeset for lp:ubuntu/compiz i'd really like to push somewhere so's i could propose it for fixing a bug. the instructions here kinda fall apart once we get to the pushing part: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/#coding nor do i see anywhere to propose fixes. any pointers what i'm missing?
[06:05] <hypodermia> or to put this more simply, how might i propose a fix for a bug on launchpad?
[06:08] <hypodermia> you know, guys, i think those instructions might just be missing a tilde. i might have it figured out now. just taking a wild guess.
[06:15] <RAOF> hypodermia: I'm not familiar with those instructions, but the general rule is “push a branch to launchpad, propose that branch for merging into your target branch”.
[06:15] <RAOF> Aha, yes.
[06:15] <hypodermia> RAOF: i just needed the syntax to push a branch to launchpad, and i happened to stumble over that. perhaps someone should mention to jono that it has a typo?
[06:15] <RAOF> It is missing a ~.  lp:~jonobacon/unity/fix-for-whatever would work.
[06:15] <hypodermia> whenever he wakes up ofc
[06:16] <hypodermia> i'm writing up the proposal already, thanks for the help, RAOF
[06:30] <hypodermia> i think i screwed up something anyway. ah well. someone will yell at me in the morning i hope.
[08:03] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:11] <MacSlow> good morning everybody
[11:09] <ronoc> HarryHaaren, skype ?
[11:18] <Andy80> hi all
[11:18] <Andy80> Kaleo: about #750303 I cannot find much documentation :\ do you have any other example of schema that uses list so I can try to understand what's wrong?
[13:49] <Kaleo> Andy80: let me look
[13:51] <Kaleo> Andy80: I think it's like:

[13:52] <Kaleo> Andy80: I commented on the MR
[13:56] <Andy80> thanks :)
[14:09] <Andy80> Kaleo: I'm probably messing with bzr... the diff is empty even if I've pushed....
[14:10] <Andy80> Kaleo: ok, nope... I didn't add the new folder :P
[14:14] <jfi> tedg, Hello, is there an easy way to detect that there is not application indicator support at runtime?
[14:15] <tedg> jfi, You can look to see if the name is on dbus.  But, if you're using libappindicator you can just look at the fallback signals.  Or subclass and override the fallback handlers.
[14:18] <jfi> tedg, I am using the libappindicator (in C). Ok, so I set a fct to (AppIndicatorClass.fallback) if called there is no runtime support, right?
[14:18] <tedg> jfi, Correct
[14:19] <jfi> tedg, thanks for your help!
[14:19] <tedg> jfi, If for some reason support is added (someone adds an applet for instance) unfallback will be called.
[14:41] <Kaleo> Andy80: :)
[15:12] <andyrock> hi all
[15:12] <andyrock> jcastro, ping
[15:13] <jcastro> andyrock: hi!
[15:14] <andyrock> jcastro, today is the unity contributor meeting right?
[15:14] <jcastro> yeah so hey
[15:14] <jcastro> I was wondering
[15:14] <jcastro> what time is 0000UTC for you
[15:14] <jcastro> isn't that like 1:30am? is that really a good time?
[15:15] <andyrock> I'd forgotten it1!
[15:16] <jcastro> I'm just saying, we can have it in a time that isn't so brutal for you
[15:16] <jcastro> (sometime today)
[15:17] <andyrock> now is fine for me!
[15:17] <jcastro> yeah but I need to announce it, etc.
[15:17] <jcastro> try to give people a heads up
[15:17] <andyrock> i know...
[15:18] <andyrock> what time we said last time?
[15:18] <jcastro> 0000UTC
[15:18] <jcastro> but I haven't announced it yet
[15:22] <andyrock> 00:00 UTC -> 02:00 Italy! Too late (or to early! :) )
[15:24] <andyrock> jcastro, maybe we can do a survey! :) About the day and about the hours (expressed in UTC)
[15:24] <andyrock> jcastro, italian loco team uses something like that ;)
[15:25] <andyrock> jcastro, http://www.doodle.com/ is the best!
[15:34] <jcastro> andyrock: ok, so for today let's pick a sane time
[15:34] <jcastro> and then we can adjust it
[15:35] <Kaleo> Andy80: you know bzr mv?
[15:35] <jcastro> what time would be good for you later today?
[15:35] <Kaleo> Andy80: it's much nicer than doing bzr add/bzr rm
[15:39] <andyrock> jcastro, now in italy it is 4:40pm... so until 8:00pm it is good for me!
[15:40] <Andy80> Kaleo: sorry didn't remember that command :\ I used Nautilus to move the file :P
[15:41] <Andy80> Kaleo: then I added the folder using bzr add
[15:41] <andyrock> jcastro, in other words: now, between an hours, between two hours
[15:41] <Kaleo> Andy80: yep
[15:43] <jcastro> andyrock: ok check my time zone conversion, 1800UTC?
[15:44] <andyrock> jcastro, 1800UTC -> 2000 Italy... OK!
[15:45] <andyrock> jcastro, which channel we use? #ayatana?
[15:46] <jcastro> yep, in here
[15:46] <jcastro> sending the mail now
[15:53] <andyrock> jcastro, hoping to be in many ;)
[15:55] <lamalex> HarryHaaren, i just added you to unity-bugs
[15:55] <lamalex> can you try triaging a bug to see if it's all good?
[15:56] <HarryHaaren> I can mark them as "confirmed" & that no problem, I'm not able to change the priority though.
[16:00] <lamalex> HarryHaaren, even now after being added to unity bugs?
[16:02] <HarryHaaren> yup. There should be the little pencil "edit" beside the "Undecided" value right?
[16:03] <Kaleo> Andy80: approved!
[16:03] <Kaleo> Andy80: it's going to be merged automatically
[16:03] <Kaleo> Andy80: awesome work!
[16:03] <czajkowski> HarryHaaren: Aloha and welcome :D
[16:03] <Andy80> Kaleo: thanks to you for the opportunity :)
[16:23] <lamalex> HarryHaaren, nice work on the bugs!
[16:24] <HarryHaaren> Had a bit of time in the morning :)
[16:27] <lamalex> API, your contract with us is finished right?
[16:28] <API> well, the second one is finished
[16:28] <API> but a third one is really likely,
[16:28] <API> hypothetically, I would start to work again 4th July, more or less
[16:31] <lamalex> can you tell me if this is correct, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/772573
[16:33] <Nafai> jcastro: So 1800 UTC is 1200 Mountain time?
[16:34] <jcastro> 11 I think?
[16:34] <jcastro> whatever 1.5 hours from now is
[16:34] <Nafai> 11
[16:34] <jcastro> Nafai: I suspect we might need to have a euro version and an ameri-version
[16:34] <jcastro> but for now I am content with just having one
[16:34] <Nafai> cool, will work fine, I can watch over the meeting while taking care of work stuffs
[16:34] <lamalex> API, i really just want to know if launcher buttons /should/ implement actionable
[16:35] <API> lamalex, yes that would be (in theory) easy, so no reason to not implement it
[16:35] <lamalex> thanks
[16:35] <API> as I said, almost for sure, I will back to work on those things, so this is one of the bugs I need to solve
[17:57] <Jon_N|A> Hello there :) I'm not a Unity developer but, I want to know how internet IRC dev meetings work so I can run a meeting of my own on IRC in the future. This is my first time on a  meeting. I won't interrupt anyone during the meeting. Can I stay here?
[18:26] <kennydude> Hi, i'm stuck commiting a fix for unity
[18:29] <kennydude> Have i missed the meeting?
[18:30] <jcastro> Hi everyone
[18:30] <jcastro> (sorry I am late, I had a problem with the condo and had to go outside)
[18:31] <jcastro> who's here for the Unity Development meeting?
[18:31] <kennydude> jcastro: I'm stuck commiting a fix to unity-2d. can you help me?
[18:31] <jcastro> I can probably find someone who can help
[18:32] <andyrock> jcastro, hi
[18:32] <jcastro> Kaleo: you about?
[18:32] <kennydude> jcastro: Cool! :D
[18:32] <jcastro> andyrock: hi, sorry I am late, the telephone pole outside my place blew up and I lost power and there was a fire. (It's all set now though)
[18:33] <jcastro> kennydude: yeah hang tight for a bit, Kaleo's the 2d guy
[18:33] <jcastro> but at the end of the meeting we can go into detail about your problem
[18:33] <kennydude> jcastro: thanks :)
[18:33] <andyrock> jcastro, there is still half an hour!
[18:33] <jcastro> this won't take long, I have an agenda
[18:33] <jcastro> andyrock: oh? Is my arithmetic bad again?
[18:34] <andyrock> jcastro, i don't kwow... i use an online time converter... ;)
[18:35] <andyrock> jcastro, look here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html
[18:35] <jcastro> oh whew, so I'm not late. :)
[18:35] <jcastro> I'm early, I miscalculated the first time
[18:35] <jcastro> kennydude: ok, since we have some time why not just start explaining your problem
[18:36] <jcastro> andyrock: here's the agenda if you wanna add anything: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
[18:36] <kennydude> jcastro: Someone on Ask Ubuntu helped me! I fixed this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/790319
[18:38] <jcastro> ok
[18:38] <jcastro> then what?
[18:38] <jcastro> do you get an error or something?
[18:39] <andyrock> jcastro, freelance contributors can help each other, testing each other work"
[18:39] <kennydude> jcastro: how can I file a bug for this page: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/ ?
[18:40] <jcastro> I can fix it on the spot
[18:40] <andyrock> jcastro, for example i'm working with external devices, etc. and i need testing because there is a lot of pointer,etc
[18:40] <andyrock> *there are
[18:41] <jcastro> andyrock: *nod*
[18:41] <kennydude> jcastro: Where it says on "push" it has an error that confused me. It says "bzr push lp:<yourusername>" and it should be "bzr push lp:~<yourusername>"
[18:43] <jcastro> hi marcobiscaro2112!
[18:43] <jcastro> kennydude: ok fixed!
[18:43] <kennydude> Thanks!
[18:43] <jcastro> I added it to the example too
[18:43] <kennydude> Yeah :)
[18:43] <jcastro> I have a work item to improve this page
[18:43] <jcastro> it's too long IMO
[18:44] <crazedpsyc> did I miss the meeting?
[18:44] <jcastro> nope
[18:44] <jcastro> 15 minutes!
[18:44] <crazedpsyc> Ok, thanks :)
[18:46] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
[18:46] <jcastro> this will be the agenda
[18:46] <jcastro> feel free to add anything
[18:46] <jcastro> and it'd be great if you could add your name and launchpad nick under attendees
[18:46] <crazedpsyc> Oh, sure
[18:46] <kennydude> Thanks very much jcastro, hopefully i'll contribute again someday :)
[18:52] <andyrock> i am going to eat something, be right back
[18:54] <Trevinho> Hey guys...
[18:58] <jcastro> Hi Trevinho
[18:58] <Trevinho> hi jcastro
[18:58] <Trevinho> Sorry if lately my activity is low but my exams are pressing me! :(
[18:59] <jcastro> no worries, we won't take too much time!
[18:59] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
[18:59] <jcastro> here's the agenda
[18:59] <Trevinho> now I've it ;)
[19:00] <jcastro> Feel free to add yourself there if you want
[19:00] <jcastro> Ok so I'll start this thing
[19:00] <Trevinho> done
[19:00] <jcastro> My name is Jorge Castro and my job is to make sure Unity contributors are happy and aren't stuck by dumb things like bad docs
[19:00] <jcastro> and generally help you do whatever it is you want to do in Unity
[19:01] <jcastro> So first I'd like to just say that this is the first meeting, so I'd like to do roundtable of introductions
[19:01] <jcastro> and then I'd like to point out some of the targets for 11.04 and 11.10
[19:01] <jcastro> and then really after that we can swap tips or do whatever it is that you guys feel we should talk about
[19:02] <jcastro> Trevinho: ok so you can start, introduce yourself!
[19:02] <andyrock> Trevinho is too slow! :)
[19:03] <Trevinho> My name is Marco Trevisan, I've been a contributor of the natty circle fixing some bugs for Unity, BAMF, libindicators, libappindicators and related things
[19:03] <Trevinho> I've joined the UDS in Budapest and I simply love improve the ubuntu desktop experience
[19:03] <Trevinho> so... now the quick andyrock can continue! ;P
[19:04]  * Andy80 is here just for a couple of minutes, but I'll read logs later, sorry :\
[19:04] <jcastro> Andy80: it's ok we'll have logs
[19:04] <jcastro> introduce yourself though!
[19:04] <jcastro> crazedpsyc: you too!
[19:05] <cdbs> Is the meeting ongoing?
[19:05] <cdbs> Sorry but I just joined the channel
[19:06] <jcastro> yeah we just started, introduce yourselves
[19:06] <andyrock> My name is Andrea Azzarone and i am a Unity contributor... With Trevinho and Andy80, i am one of the `Italian Stallions` ;)
[19:06] <jcastro> and then we'll hit the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
[19:06] <cdbs> jcastro: Do contractors come under the "contributor" category? :D Of course not :)
[19:07] <Andy80> My name is Andrea Grandi, I've started contributing to Unity-2D right after Budapest UDS. I come from Qt programming and experience I've done in Maemo/MeeGo community. I think Unity-2D is just perfect for me to contribute. I've currently fixed two bugs and they've already been merged in the main trunk. I'm now working to a third one! Proud to be one of the "Italian Stallions" ;)
[19:07] <andyrock> i attended the UDS in Budapest...
[19:08] <jcastro> cdbs: sure, we love anyone who works on unity. :)
[19:10] <cdbs> I'm Bilal Akhtar, 15, contributed to the places in the Natty cycle, and in Oneiric, I'm working on nux, and unity itself as well. Currently working on a branch which is actually a full port of Unity to GTK3
[19:10] <jcastro> awesome, anyone else?
[19:10] <cdbs> Outside Unity, I'm an Ubuntu MOTU, LoCo team contact, school student :( , Android app developer, Debian contributor
[19:11] <andyrock> marcobiscaro2112, join us!
[19:12] <jcastro> crazedpsyc: what to introduce yourself?
[19:12] <davidcalle> I'm David Callé, I'm not an Unity contributor but I'm the Books Lens project leader. I know some Python, currently learning Vala and I'd love to give a hand.
[19:12] <crazedpsyc> jcastro: Sure, I was out getting food earlier ;)
[19:13] <jcastro> davidcalle: Writing lenses is also a Unity contribution. :)
[19:13] <jcastro> but awesome, glad you could make it
[19:14] <crazedpsyc> Howdy everybody, I am Michael Smith... I haven't done much for Unity yet, just reporting bugs, because I don't know any C! (python fan) However, I do wish to contribute to other python projects (like Lernid) if I can :)
[19:14] <jcastro> ok great, so I'll go over some stuff while you guys chow down.
[19:14] <crazedpsyc> Cool :)
[19:14] <jcastro> So right now we have 2 sets of bugs
[19:15]  * hyperair considers dehilighting chow
[19:15] <jcastro> the first is the bitesize bugs, which are the same "intro" level bugs
[19:15] <jcastro> these are in the topic
[19:15] <jcastro> The list - http://goo.gl/tiheb
[19:15] <jcastro> so basically this bug is what we consider the nice list of for people to get their feet wet
[19:16] <jcastro> the second, newer list is what I call the backlog list.
[19:16] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~unity-community-hackers
[19:16] <jcastro> the backlog list is things that the design team consider "real nice fixes that would make unity better for people"
[19:16] <jcastro> they come from things like the user testing stuff they do
[19:16] <jcastro> and just general design feedback from the community
[19:17] <jcastro> (so it will likely grow and shrink)
[19:17] <jcastro> the DX team at canonical took a bunch of those bugs and are committed to fix them
[19:17] <jcastro> they have a "backlog" tag
[19:17] <jcastro> the rest I've assigned to the ~unity-community-hackers team
[19:17] <jcastro> which basically means "this one is up for  grabs"
[19:18] <jcastro> there were a total of 60 backlog bugs, I've assigned 29 to the team, and then DX can have the rest. :)
[19:18] <jcastro> so, a person can work on three kinds of bugs. Bitesizers, these backlog ones, and of course, you can grab any of the bugs for 11.04 and fix those.
[19:18]  * Trevinho informs: that's the link for all the tagged links: http://go.3v1n0.net/kWPDS0
[19:19] <jcastro> ok so the "trick" to do this is to get the balance right
[19:19] <jcastro> some of the backlog bugs are features, but at the same time, fixing a bug in what we're shipping in 11.04 is also important
[19:20] <jcastro> so really it's up to you on what you want to do
[19:20] <jcastro> you might want to do some bug fixes, and then mix it up and do a feature one for 11.10, then go back to fixing bugs, whatever floats your boat.
[19:20] <jcastro> Any questions so far?
[19:20] <andyrock> jcastro, sure
[19:21] <andyrock> jcastro, can i assing a  ~unity-community-hackers bug to me?
[19:21] <jcastro> yeah
[19:21] <jcastro> the team is basically the "this is our shared pile"
[19:21] <andyrock> jcastro, otherwise we can have a "race condition"
[19:21] <jcastro> you assign it to yourself, fix it, and then submit for merge
[19:21] <jcastro> if you decide "whoa this is too hard, just reassign it back to the hackers team
[19:22] <andyrock> jcastro, i have already a merge proposal for a ~unity-community-hackers bug
[19:22] <jcastro> hey alright!
[19:22] <jcastro> ok one other thing, the DX team is doing merge reviews much faster now
[19:22] <jcastro> you should at least be getting a response within a day, and they try to clean the entire thing up every monday
[19:23] <andyrock> jcastro, it was tagged as a bitesize bug... but it was not! and DBO can confirm ;)
[19:23] <jcastro> but if it's over say, 2 days and you're not getting a response just ping me to bother them
[19:23] <marcobiscaro2112> this is great! :P
[19:23] <jcastro> andyrock: he probably tagged it to trick you. :)
[19:23] <jcastro> "this one is easy"
[19:23] <DBO> andyrock, which bug?
[19:23] <jcastro> also most of the backlog bugs should have that template now
[19:23] <jcastro> where DBO explains what the problem is in more detail
[19:24] <jcastro> this should hopefully help you figure it out instead of flailing trying to figure out that part of the code
[19:24] <jcastro> Any other questions?
[19:24] <andyrock> DBO, you have short memory! :)
[19:24] <andyrock> DBO, https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-767075/+merge/63852
[19:24] <Trevinho> jcastro: if you can ping dbo abou the mail I sent him about BAMF... :)
[19:25] <Trevinho> oh... I didn't see you here! :)
[19:25]  * cdbs sleeps, its midnight here
[19:25] <cdbs> sorry for that
[19:25] <andyrock> Trevinho, let DBO work!
[19:25] <DBO> andyrock, yes okay I thought we meant that bug
[19:25] <jcastro> goodnight cdbs
[19:25] <jcastro> ah, this brings up a good point
[19:25] <jcastro> from now on, when dealing with bugs it's either in the bug report, or on ayatana-dev
[19:26] <jcastro> no more mailing DBO directly because we know he won't read it
[19:26] <Andy80> jcastro, Trevinho last think and I've to go: I created this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity-2D/Bitesize so we have bitesize bugs for Unity-2D too ;)
[19:26] <jcastro> if you send it to ayatana-dev then at least someone else might be able to help
[19:26] <DBO> andyrock, did the last-geo thing ever get merged?
[19:26] <DBO> i dont see it in any of the log, which I was waiting on
[19:26] <jcastro> Andy80: oh nice, good point, I need to add that to the weekly report, awesome, thanks for that,
[19:27] <andyrock> DBO, i add it to my branch! but it is not merged in trunk!
[19:28] <andyrock> DBO, you are so busied, so don't worry :)
[19:28] <DBO> andyrock, ah you added it to your branch with no commit log! :P
[19:28] <jcastro> ah
[19:28] <DBO> andyrock, merging!
[19:28] <jcastro> so already we're finding and fixing problems
[19:28] <andyrock> DBO, i know... becuase i am stupid!
[19:28] <jcastro> I knew this meeting was a good idea!
[19:28] <jcastro> ok I've got one last thing
[19:29] <jcastro> from UDS we said we'd like to see you guys doing merge reviews and whatnot
[19:29] <jcastro> andyrock: I saw you marked yours as DONE, but I can't find where that is
[19:29] <andyrock> jcastro, i did it ;) just a moment
[19:29] <andyrock> jcastro, a marcobiscaro2112 merge proposal if i am not wrong
[19:30] <marcobiscaro2112> yep!
[19:30] <andyrock> jcastro, https://code.launchpad.net/~marcobiscaro2112/unity/fixes-724045/+merge/63461
[19:31] <DBO> andyrock, merged :)
[19:31] <Trevinho> I didn't yet :P
[19:31] <DBO> ah crap, late for a meeting
[19:31] <DBO> again
[19:31] <DBO> I rock
[19:31] <andyrock> marcobiscaro2112, i know... gmail is so fast ;)
[19:31] <andyrock> sorry DBO ^^^
[19:31] <jcastro> andyrock: nice work!
[19:31] <DBO> andyrock, dude, never be sorry
[19:31] <DBO> excellent work!
[19:31] <DBO> much love
[19:31] <DBO> Im just an idiot
[19:32] <jcastro> ok so if you guys can keep doing a peer review on each other's proposals then that should work
[19:32] <jcastro> ok so anyone have a particular bug they'd like to target this week?  Ok so unless anyone has any burning issues, I won't keep you from your studies.
[19:35] <jcastro> I don't want you guys to flunk out of college like DBO
[19:35] <Trevinho> lol :D
[19:35] <jcastro> andyrock: nice work on that review, that's gold!
[19:35] <Trevinho> by the way about the chromium webapps issue...
[19:36] <andyrock> jcastro, i have a branch but i'am not sure if there is no memory leak problem :(
[19:36] <jcastro> which one?
[19:36] <Trevinho> you (jcastro) changed some basic informations, that I had no time (yet) to study
[19:36] <Trevinho> but
[19:36] <Trevinho> (this I meant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692462)
[19:36] <jcastro> yeah
[19:36] <Trevinho> about the BAMF thing, I guess that the previous implementation (fix) could be easily re-used
[19:37] <jcastro> yeah but he doesn't want that
[19:37] <andyrock> jcastro, btw i don't study to the college... just high school :(
[19:37] <jcastro> because he'd have to redo it at some point
[19:37] <jcastro> andyrock: it's ok, DBO went to a glorified high school
[19:37] <jcastro> and I guess he turned out OK
[19:37] <Trevinho> I didn't catch the problem...
[19:38] <jcastro> Trevinho: let's do this, post it to the mailing list.
[19:38] <jcastro> and we can have him explain it better
[19:38] <andyrock> DBO, you have not finisched high school?
[19:38] <jcastro> andyrock: he did, I am just making fun of him.
[19:38] <andyrock> jcastro, ah ok ;)
[19:38] <DBO> It was hard, Ms. Wormwood kept making me redo my report on bats
[19:39] <Trevinho> I mean, the previous implementation could suffer of crashes due to double possible WM_CLASS duplication, but it won't happen using few workarounds
[19:39] <jcastro> from reading the bug report it seems chromium upstream is also confused
[19:39] <jcastro> DBO: after your meeting can you check out the chromium webapp bug and clarify?
[19:40] <DBO> jcastro, yes
[19:40] <Trevinho> DBO: It would be cool if you'd look at my mail too... :P
[19:40] <Trevinho> the fact is that chromium is already doing everything it (easily) can do to fix this...
[19:40] <Trevinho> Cause chromium currently uses the same pid, for all its windows
[19:41] <Trevinho> so the only way to discern them is to use a different WM_CLASS
[19:41] <jcastro> (unless there are any other agenda items, we can officially end the meeting and DBOvinho can talk about this bug)
[19:41] <Trevinho> then associating to the couple (WM_CLASS,desktop_file_path) an application should be fine
[19:42] <andyrock> jcastro, just a question
[19:42] <crazed_empathy> and another question ;)
[19:44] <crazed_empathy> 1. Is there a 'contributer list' anywhere of all the Ubuntu components, and what languages they are written in? That would be so awesome :)
[19:45] <andyrock> if anyone wants to contribute, but he/she cannot write code, he/she can help testing our branch!
[19:46] <andyrock> someone is available?
[19:47] <crazed_empathy> That was my second question: Is there some amazing program that automatically installs whatever needs testing? :D I love testing nightlies/alphas/betas of everything, but it is just so inconvenient to trudge around on launchpad, pick out a project, bzr branch it, and then compile it.
[19:47] <Trevinho> crazed_empathy: an "unity map" should be done (by neil if I recall correctly)... It should show all the projects, how they are related and how they are written.
[19:47] <Trevinho> crazed_empathy: I guess that there's nothing automatized
[19:48] <crazed_empathy> Hmmm... ok
[19:48] <Trevinho> however when configuring your software to compile it you should be easily informed about the missing component
[19:48] <Trevinho> so... Just bzr branch for it.
[19:49] <crazed_empathy> Oh, I know, I just mean I want to test *EVERYTHING* in the entire world of launchpad! ;) or... at least automatically upgrade everything I already have :)
[19:49] <jcastro> crazed_empathy: we'll have a nightly ppa later in the cycle
[19:49] <crazed_empathy> for what?
[19:50] <jcastro> right now they're kind of busted and no one's bothered to fix it yet since it's really just bug fixes going in
[19:50] <andyrock> crazed_empathy,  unity daily build
[19:50] <jcastro> for unity itself
[19:50] <crazed_empathy> Oh, cool
[19:51] <crazed_empathy> But how about all the other major components? eg. I just upgraded to ayatana-scrollbars 2.0
[19:51] <jcastro> there is also really no diagram of what components/code stuff is in, waiting on that
[19:51] <jcastro> but it's basically, unity,compiz, and nux are the three main parts
[19:52] <jcastro> unity and compiz are c++, unity 2d is c++ in Qt
[19:52] <jcastro> no idea what nux is, mostly Jay just handles that
[19:52] <crazed_empathy> Yes, but those are the *Major* components...  According to Ayatana-dev
[19:54] <andyrock> jcastro, i know! but glibwrapper is just a workaround
[19:55] <andyrock> Trevinho, ^^^
[19:55] <lamalex> would be nice, except interfacing with gobject is pretty necessary
[19:56] <crazed_empathy> Unity should be completely re-written in python, with pygi! Who wants to do it?? ;)
[19:56] <andyrock> the problem is that glibmm development is slower than glib one
[19:56] <andyrock> so they need to use glib lib
[19:56] <andyrock> but memory managament is too confusing
[19:58] <lamalex> it's not that it's confusing it just takes diligence
[19:58] <lamalex> and raises the bar for contributing
[19:58] <Trevinho> crazed_empathy: I wouldn't do that.... It's too slow
[19:58] <lamalex> Trevinho, pretty sure that was a joke note the winky face :P
[19:59] <Trevinho> Ah, ok :D
[19:59] <Trevinho> however I guess that lib*mm could gain also some GI improvements in the future...
[19:59] <crazed_empathy> Trevinho: Actually... it is faster so far... especially because i'm not doing the fancy widgets
[19:59] <crazed_empathy> :D
[20:00] <Trevinho> I would have preferred vala actually, but I can accept that it would be used just on libraries! :)
[20:00] <crazed_empathy> Vala is nice too... i've been learning that recently :)
[20:00] <lamalex> let's get back on topic
[20:00] <crazedpsyc> Yes. what topic?
[20:01] <andyrock> lamalex, indeed
[20:02] <andyrock> another thing, i need thumper help support for using glibwrapper rightly and for google style ;)
[20:04] <crazedpsyc> lamalex: <whisper>That wasn't *entirely* a joke, btw... (http://strenua.github.com/Melia/screenshots/melia-dash-deskmode.png)</whisper> ;)
[20:04] <Nafai> Sorry I've missed the meeting guys
[20:05] <crazedpsyc> Hi Nafai :)
[20:07] <crazedpsyc> Nafai: logs already up here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/15/%23ayatana.html :)
[20:07] <Nafai> thanks!
[20:09] <crazedpsyc> So when is the next Ubuntu App Developer Week? I see the wiki hasn't been updated... ;)
[20:10] <andyrock> i have to go now! hi all :)
[23:32] <thumper> morning
[23:32] <thumper> jcastro: ping
[23:33] <thumper> hmm... east coast is getting late


[00:10] <Takyoji> Anyone have a sane option of closing an active computer session on another system, when the same account is authenticated into on another workstation? (of an LDAP setup)
[00:10] <Takyoji> Or some way to rid of lingering lock file madness of Firefox and LibreOffice
[00:15] <owh> Hello all. I'm running an 8.04.4 and I've just come out of the good end of a hack scare. I saw fetchmail su success in my logs, only to realise that this was related to a reboot. I don't think the server has been compromised, but would like some suggestions on what tools to use to scan binaries etc. The next question is, are there any recommendations on intrusion detection tools?
[00:21] <flaccid> owh: i'd just upgrade it from 8.04 which has known vulns and then use ossec
[00:29] <owh> flaccid: "just upgrade" is not quite so trivial as there are a range of services running on that machine. There is a project in place to rebuild the machine with the current LTS, but that's not going to happen any time soon, but thanks for the comment.
[00:31] <flaccid> not sure what else you could do if you are not happy with the pkg versions in that release..
[00:32] <owh> No, I'm happy enough, I'm just looking for recommendations to scan the server for any "tweaked" binaries and a recommendation for an intrusion detection system.
[00:37] <nick58b> owh: rkhunter and chkrootkit?
[00:37] <nick58b> owh: aide works well on ubuntu for ids
[00:39] <owh> Excellent, I'll have a squiz. Thanks nick58b
[00:41] <owh> Hmm, rkhunter is before it happens as you need to populate the database with your current system. Sort of like the first tool you install :)
[00:42] <nick58b> aide is going to be the same way
[00:43] <owh> Is there anything that checks against the ubuntu repository for example?
[00:44] <nick58b> clamav might be able to detect malicious files
[00:44] <nick58b> not sure
[00:47] <owh> Well, I only ever install binaries from the repository so if we start with the assumption that they have not been compromised, then any change of a binary should be "simple" to detect.
[00:48] <[7hunderbird]> I was wondering if anyone knew how to write to the hybridfox db (I think it's a sqlite db)
[00:48] <owh> I suppose I could download all packages, unpack them one for one, and compare them.
[00:49] <owh> [7hunderbird]: You can use any number of sqlite libraries.
[00:50] <[7hunderbird]> I was thinking of creating a script that grabs my credentials from a search result API and then inserts them into hybridfox's db for me so I don't have to manually copy and paste them myself
[00:50] <[7hunderbird]> right but I don't know which db to use, so far I've not been able to determine where it stores it
[00:51] <owh> I don't understand. You just told us that the database was an sqlite database.
[00:51] <[7hunderbird]> I know the general vacinity on my mac os x box.
[00:51] <[7hunderbird]> owh:  I said "I think it's a sqlite db"
[00:51] <[7hunderbird]> that's an assumption
[00:51] <owh> use the find command to locate the actual file.
[00:53] <owh> Under OSX, which BTW has nothing to do with Ubuntu Server or Ubuntu Virtual, you can use a tool written by a friend of mine called Keyboard Maestro to automate the copy and paste.
[00:54] <[7hunderbird]> hybridfox is cross platform
[00:55] <[7hunderbird]> and I was looking for a room to get some ideas and feedback
[00:55] <[7hunderbird]> searches online provided these rooms as possibilities
[03:46] <RoyK> hi
[03:47] <RoyK> where's the kvm/libvirt config stored?
[03:47] <RoyK> I have one machine with a set of VMs and now that died, I need to move it to another - mounting the nfs volume with the VMs isn't hard, but I want to move the config too
[03:57] <Gallomimia> ohnoes a new release
[04:02] <ihashacks> RoyK: /var/lib/libvirt
[04:03] <RoyK> no, seems /etc/libvirt
[04:04] <ihashacks> whoops, was looking at my CentOS box.
[04:05] <ihashacks> And actually the networks are in /var/lib/libvirt/network
[04:06] <Gallomimia> so, has anyone tried the new release i see for the first time today?
[05:36] <three18ti_> so, still no avahi usb image, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MAAS/AvahiBoot
[05:36] <three18ti_> how do I get MAAS running on a machine that doesn't support PXE Boot?  Is it possible?
[05:37] <bigjools> I thought you could boot from a CD, not sure where that stands though
[05:40] <Ztane> in ec2+instance store, is it possible to use all the ephemeral disk space on the root partition?
[05:42] <three18ti_> well...  When you run the ubuntu installer you can "add" the node to MAAS, but it immediately shuts down the machine.  When you go to "accept and provision" as I understand, it should WoL and boot the machine but since the BIOS doesn't support WoL/PXE, there's a link to the AvahiBoot, but all the wiki page says is "when we have a usb image"
[05:43] <three18ti_> I know the thing was just released today, so maybe I need to see !patience... ;)
[05:43] <bigjools> possibly :)
[05:43] <bigjools> you might need to ping Daviey later when he's around
[05:44] <three18ti_> mmkay.  worth a shot.  any idea what hours he keeps?
[05:46] <bigjools> he's Uk-based
[05:47] <three18ti_> cool, thanks.  I'm in Denver, so I'll need to stay up late or get up early...  Not a morning person... :)
[05:48] <bigjools> oh there's other guys on the East Coast you get talk to as well
[05:48] <bigjools> smoser
[05:48] <Ztane> maybe it is possible to to reroot the m1.small instance to use the 160GB disk as the primary partition
[05:54] <three18ti_> thanks bigjools.
[06:04] <BlendedByI> Any thoughts on NFS vs GFS2 for a master/master FS?
[06:56] <three18ti_> hmmm...  trying to upgrade a server from 11.10 to 12.04.  most have gone smoothly, except one... getting this error http://paste.scsys.co.uk/195274 any ideas?
[06:57] <three18ti_> long day of upgrades, had a couple with this issue, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1905494 tried same because WTF not...  issue is probably staring me in the face buuut I don't see it.
[06:59] <Ztane> three18ti_: well you have that line in apt sources list; it seems http://us.archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/ only contians some old hardy cruft
[07:03] <three18ti_> thanks hash-tag duh.  most of my upgrades have gone smoothly today, but a couple have gone sideways in a hurry...  Whatever, better than the RHEL upgrades the other week. I F*** hate RHEL/ rpm based distros...  too much headache.
[07:05] <three18ti_> anyway, thanks for helping with my easy problem.
[07:06] <three18ti_> ^^ that was for you Ztane.
[07:07] <three18ti_> herp-a-derp http://i.imgur.com/3MN4f.gif thanks uvirtbot
[07:20] <three18ti_> ^help
[07:20] <three18ti_> ^commands
[07:27] <gvandeweyer> Should the 'do-release-upgrade' command be working already without the -d switch to upgrade to 12.04 lts server? or is the release delayed somehow?
[07:44] <_ruben> iirc, -d will be required until 12.04.1, unless you (re)configure update-manager to not only install LTS
[08:11]  * _ruben reboots his buildhost into 12.04 .. fingers crossed
[08:23] <feisar> when running an Ubuntu server what's the official way to get notified when critical updates and/or restarts are needed?
[08:35] <ruben23> hi guys i have a couple of cronjob on my linux serer but suddenly appears how do i check if someone delete it or play with it what hsould be my first step guys any help..?
[08:44] <ogra_> feisar, log out, log in again and read the motd thats displayed at login time
[08:45] <ogra_> it tells you how many packages can be upgraded, how many are security updates etc
[09:03] <goddard> how can i clear space from my boot partition?
[09:05] <dob> why is do-release-upgrade not working with my 10.04 server?
[09:05] <dob> I want to upgrade to 12.04
[09:05] <ogra_> automatic LTS to LTS updates will only be enabled for 12.04.1
[09:06] <ogra_> you have to use -d if you want it already
[09:06] <dob> So it's currently not official supported?
[09:06] <dob> What will be the release date of 12.04.1
[09:06] <dob> ?
[09:07] <ogra_> its supported but since there are thousands and thousands (and thousands) of enterprise ubuntu server installs out there, it is held back until all remaining bugs have been shaken out
[09:08] <ogra_> the release data is on the precise release schedule (on the ubuntu wiki)
[09:08] <lynxman-> morning o/
[09:09] <dob> ogra_: Thank u. Then I have time until July :-)
[09:10] <ogra_> well, you can indeed help finding the remaining bugs :)
[09:20] <goddard> good to know
[09:37] <blendedbychris> anyone around… i have a hyper-v ubuntu vm and am getting both /dev/sda and /dev/hda of the same drive
[09:49] <dpkingma> Hello everyone!! I'm looking for a Juju Charm for MongoDB v2.0+
[09:49] <dpkingma> Anyone with experience for that?
[09:51] <dpkingma> Echo...
[10:43] <Ztane> uec 64 bit precise image on ec2: some apt keyrings were missing :(
[10:44] <Ztane> http://pastebin.com/1D7zFx0W
[10:45] <Ztane> how to fix?
[11:30] <ryannathans> dnsmasq is running with the SAME config BEFORE 12.04. It will not return DNS queries. ubuntu-server.
[11:32] <ryannathans> what do I do to fix dnsmasq?
[12:07] <ftpd> qman__: FYI: I'm up&running now.
[12:07] <ftpd> qman__: I've moved to another OpenVZ node, with 2.6.32
[12:08] <ftpd> qman__: And update was able to continue.
[12:08] <ftpd> qman__: Thanks again for your advices.
[12:08] <brainysmurf> I have some emails that I'm sending from my server and I'm getting a 554 relay access denied
[12:08] <brainysmurf> I don't understand why I would be getting a relay access denied when I'm sending an email
[12:09] <ryannathans> How does one set up dnsmasq on 12.04? It is no longer working since upgrading.
[12:09] <ryannathans> for DNS forwarding
[12:11] <smoser> three18ti, you can just turn the machine on at the appropriate time. ie, sneaker-net-power-control
[12:27] <Captain_Proton> I have a strange problem I have a 10.04 server running a simple lamp. All of a sudden the networks drops and after a short time it comes back up a have replace the nic and test the router all seem fine. Any thoughts
[12:27] <ryannathans> Captain_Proton: realtek network chip yah?
[12:29] <Captain_Proton> not sure and it in a shut down state so I have to wait till it comes back up
[12:30] <ryannathans> if it's realtek, i've had that problem, you need to go to realrek.com.tw and get the *latest* driver and install it every kernel upgrade
[12:33] <Captain_Proton> did you have that get go or was it something that happened just one day out of the blue?
[12:34] <ryannathans> both on two different machines
[12:34] <Captain_Proton> this thing was running like a champ for at-lest 2 yrs then last week this started
[12:35] <ryannathans> Captain_Proton: sounds like my dnsmasq.
[12:35] <ryannathans> upgrade to 12.04. Bam it's dead.
[12:35] <ryannathans> no one seems to be able to help
[12:51] <ruben23> guys help me is there a process here that runs 1 Pm or 1am time..? everyday..? i confuse..tahnks------>http://pastebin.com/ih5b0qph
[13:15] <Captain_Proton> ruben23, I took a look first off you have some that run all the time no breaks that can not be good for cpu, you have a few that cold run at those time
[13:16] <Captain_Proton> ruben23, check the forum post out http://forums.hostsearch.com/showthread.php?2693-Crontab-explained that may help figure out what going on
[13:18] <Captain_Proton> ruben23, that a good asterisk call center system I really like it and if you need support there parent company is really good
[14:00] <maruq> hi guys.
[14:01] <maruq> just booted a 12.04 server on ec2 (us-east-1) & am having trouble getting to one of the apt servers
[14:01] <maruq> did an apt-get update
[14:01] <maruq> seems to time out whenever I try to get a package from: Connecting to us-east-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com (<IP_ADDRESS>)]
[14:11] <_ruben> maruq: seems to be an internal (to ec2) mirror
[14:11] <maruq> @_ruben yep, the <IP_ADDRESS> would be an internal IP
[14:12] <maruq> I can't ping it from the node, but then it could just be that the ports aren't open
[14:12] <_ruben> so it's an (internal) ec2 issue
[14:12] <maruq> when I retry, I get another mirror & it pulls down from there
[14:12] <maruq> @_ruben well, internal DNS isn't guaranteed on AWS (you lose it on shutdown, etc)
[14:13] <maruq> it could be that a node has been changed & not pushed to apt sources yet, etc
[14:14] <maruq> I would probably suggest moving to Elastic IPs / Elastic Load Balancers if possible, as that way no-one can swap a node in when you shutdown
[14:14] <maruq> either way, I just thought I'd raise
[14:15] <maruq> things work if I retry & get a different server
[14:16] <Ztane> actually how you ought to do this is
[14:16] <Ztane> to use cname to refer to the canonical name of the elastic ip
[14:16] <Ztane> bc it will be cheaper
[14:18] <Ztane> my upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 failed,
[14:18] <Ztane> apache2.2-common did not finish configuring,
[14:18] <_ruben> hrm .. what would be the intented successor of ia32-libs on precise? given the multiarch stuff?
[14:18] <Ztane> trying dpkg --configure apache2 gives me error "module reqtimeout does not exist"
[14:18] <Ztane> however I do not find any references to it in any of the configs
[14:20] <Ztane> and there exists mod_reqtimeout.so in apache libdir
[14:25] <Ztane> http://pastebin.com/FBDZbwXK
[14:28] <Ztane> any ideas?
[14:30] <Ztane> ok: I was missing reqtimeout.load file in configs!!
[14:30] <Ztane> mods-available
[14:30] <Ztane> that is just silly
[14:31] <Ztane> touched reqtimeout.load and reqtimeout.conf and apache configuration works
[14:32] <Ztane> that must be like the worst diagnostics ever
[14:44] <maruq> Ztane: haha, well, at least you solved it ;)
[15:00] <Eno_> Hello, anyone experienced grub issues with Xen on 12.04?
[15:14] <husien> hello guys!  what the command code for searching all php.ini file in my ubuntu 11.10?
[15:14] <Pici> husien: find / -name "php.ini"
[15:15] <Pici> husien: but its probably in /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini or /etc/php5/cli/php.ini depending on which you want.
[15:15] <Eno_> use find /etc/ it will be way faster...
[15:17] <husien> Pici,  BIG thanks!!!!!....
[15:48] <RoyK> g'day
[16:05] <Ztane> is there something silly in UEC images or ec2-bundle-vol that removes crt, pem, id_dsa etc from instance images??
[16:07] <hallyn> utlemming: do you release any debian amis?
[16:07] <hallyn> (or, is there any particular source you use for debian ami's, if you ever use them?)
[16:07] <utlemming> hallyn: nope, the debian folks do that on their own
[16:07] <hallyn> do they have an official id one should trust?
[16:09] <utlemming> http://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/AmazonEC2Image?highlight=%28ami%29
[16:09] <utlemming> righscale looks to be the ones doing the spinning of them
[16:10] <Ztane> wtf seriously, all *.pem files were removed from the image built using ec2-bundle-vol?
[16:10] <hallyn> utlemming: great, thanks
[16:11] <Ztane> or is this now some fine "ubuntu" default "feature" in 12.04 :S
[16:13] <hallyn> ztane: not that i know of at any rate
[16:13] <Ztane> hallyn: seems to be a feature in ec2-bundle-vol or some config...
[16:14] <Ztane> I mounted the resulting image, and none of the .pem files were rsynced
[16:15] <hallyn> huh
[16:15] <hallyn> utlemming: ^ known to you?
[16:16] <Ztane> https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=84085 I think they changed something in the image rsync, maybe we sohuld really be using euca tools :(
[16:17] <utlemming> hallyn, Ztane: not know to me, but it doesn't surprise me. The tools try to remove the identity of the server, and certs can be used in the server's identity.
[16:17] <Ztane> yeah the last post in that url explains what is happening. Quite a change :S
[16:18] <hallyn> utlemming: thanks
[16:19] <utlemming> &$%^#$^! if that post is right, then it strips out even the system library pem files
[16:20] <Ztane> yes
[16:20] <Ztane> it is right, it did
[16:20] <utlemming> good god, that's insane
[16:20] <Ztane> even the ec2 .pem file :D
[16:20] <resno> utlemming: please watch your &$%^#$^! language!
[16:20] <Ztane> resno: I think in this case it is appropriate :D
[16:20] <resno> Ztane: you're likely right
[16:21] <resno> i just wanted a reason to retype it
[16:22] <utlemming> lol
[16:22]  * utlemming files a support case with Amazon
[16:23] <Ztane> hmm
[16:23] <utlemming> the effect is that it makes the AMI's insecure. By stripping out the sysem pem files, all SSL trust is gone
[16:23] <hallyn> utlemming: i love insecurity through security
[16:24] <hallyn> (i guess it's in-authentication through security)
[16:24] <Ztane> I think it is time to convert my image build system to use eucatools
[16:24] <webjames> does anyone know when 12.04 will be available for micro instances?
[16:24] <Ztane> so funny that if you install ec2-ami-tools, it also installs the aws cert as a pem file :D and it is then removed on subsequent bundles :D
[16:24] <utlemming> webjames: it is now
[16:25] <webjames> utlemming cheers - i'll go have a look
[16:26] <webjames> utlemming - so it is, great! thanks guys!
[16:26] <utlemming> its pretty ironic that they remove id_{d,r}sa files, yet leave id_ecdsa files
[16:28] <Ztane> hohoho :D
[16:30] <Ztane> utlemming: hmm I just realized what caused this too: http://pastebin.com/1D7zFx0W :D :D :D
[16:30]  * cwillu_at_work removes Ztane's emoticon privileges
[16:31]  * utlemming refrains from responding to keep from getting banned
[16:31]  * resno bans utlemming anyway
[16:31] <resno> why am i banning you?
[16:32] <Ztane> magic security. No wonder things did not work here and there ...
[16:34] <Ztane> 190 pem files were removed, all of them.
[16:34] <Ztane> including eucatools and ec2-ami-tools installed amazon certs.
[16:40] <utlemming> I think that that filter should break just about every distribution, or at least make them somewhat wanky. RHEL variants will get their package siging keys ripped out. I haven't looked at a RPM-based distro in nearly a year, but if I recall, their system certs don't end  in .pem.
[16:44] <Ztane> utlemming: true, and one would think that anyone using ec2-bundle-vol would already know what files to remove and what not
[16:44] <Ztane> and could write exclude filters for rsync
[16:44] <Ztane> now, to know what to write as include filters... that is slightly more difficult :D
[16:44] <utlemming> and they don't remove other files like .der
[16:45] <goddard> how goes the upgrade from 10.10 to 12.04?
[16:45] <Ztane> they did not seem to have any switch for turning this on / off
[16:47] <resno> goddard: 10.04 to 12.04?
[16:55] <Eno_> LTS to LTS
[16:55] <arosales> utlemming: jamespage: to confirm do we need a UDS session for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-push-to-the-clouds
[17:00] <smb> smoser, utlemming I never really looked at it as I did not have many machines to set up, but is there a charm for creating a new xen vm host?
[17:02] <utlemming> arosales: yeah, its looking like we do need a session for that
[17:03] <arosales> ok, I'll adjust the blueprint
[17:04] <rbasak> arosales: I wonder if the triage blueprint should be wider than just server? Surely other teams must have the same issues? Maybe it's not practical to coordinate all that though.
[17:09] <arosales> rbasak: if you directly know of anyone who may be interested please ask them the subscribe.
[17:09] <arosales> s/the/to/
[17:09] <rbasak> I don't know of anyone in particular
[17:10] <arosales> rbasak: but, yes I agree with you others may be intersted.
[17:10] <arosales> the good thing is Ursinha will also be there and she has a good pulse on server and desktop bug process.
[17:11] <rbasak> Great!
[17:11] <rbasak> EOD now, have a great weekend everyone!
[17:12] <Ursinha> :)
[17:35] <blendedbychris> anyone have a good how-to for creating your own mirror for ubuntu apt?
[18:13] <sander__> Does people upgrading from 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS have any major problems with the upgrade?
[18:23] <RamJett> Is there a way I can skip RAID and lvm in the initramfs. I have a 5.9T /dev/md0 with a lvm on top with 12 SAS drives. It never comes up clean at boot and is driving me crazy. I have to physically pull all 12 drives. Then boot the box. They are hot swap so I just plug them in and they all come up .. then I mount.
[18:24] <patdk-wk> RamJett, sounds like you need a delay
[18:24] <patdk-wk> that is documented
[18:24] <patdk-wk> so that you can make sure all disks are spunup
[18:30] <RamJett> I would love to know where I can get more info. I've been asking everyday here. I have 2 of these boxes and it drive me crazy. I just don't know where to start to modify the initramfs. I've only started using Ubuntu this past year. I've been using Gentoo for the past 11 and Slackware before that
[18:44] <RamJett> So where is it documents so I can do some test. I haven't been able to find anything
[18:49] <Takyoji> Is there any way to change the setting of the least functional harddrives for a RAID to not be considered degraded?
[18:49] <Takyoji> There's a 3-disk RAID-1, and one may have failed, yet it complains of booting in a degraded state, even though it has 2 functional drives.
[18:52] <patdk-wk> well, is everything 100% perfect?
[18:55] <RamJett> Takyoji: Remove the failed drive from the array     # mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --fail /dev/sdx  ... then mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --remove /dev/sdx  .. of course change the /dev/md0 to your array and /dev/sdx to the failed drive. At least that is where I would start
[18:56] <RamJett> But not sure how you have the RAD 1 with 3 disks setup
[19:33] <Everyday> Anyone available to answer some questions about the cloud service?
[19:37] <tarvid> upgrade of dhcp server failed
[19:46] <SpamapS> Everyday: what is "the cloud service" ?
[19:46] <SpamapS> RamJett: btw, RAID1 with 3 disks just means one is a hot spare.
[19:47] <Everyday> SpamapS we are a hosting provider looking for a way to deploy a public cloud
[19:48] <Everyday> currently testing cloudstack from citrix and onapp.  wondering if there is a similar product with ubuntu
[19:48] <SpamapS> Everyday: You want openstack.
[19:49] <SpamapS> Everyday: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure
[19:49] <Everyday> Yes, that is what I gather from looking around.  Just trying to see where it all comes together
[19:49] <Debro> Can i run server on pc without video card...?
[19:50] <SpamapS> Debro: yes, we do that all the time with ARM boards
[19:50] <Debro> SpamapS, my video card died today on Compal FL90.. :(
[19:50] <Everyday> SpamapS is this a "turn key" similar to cloudstack and onapp or do we need to build a client interface, etc?
[19:51] <Debro> SpamapS, how i now what i need write and how i can connect to pc remotely
[19:53] <KM0201> Debro: you'll need to set up SSH on the laptop most likely (at least i think thats a laptop)
[19:53] <KM0201> Debro: can you hook it up to an external display for af ew minutes?  because if it's not already set up, that will be fairly difficult.
[19:54] <Debro> KM0201, no i have just motherboard ram and cpu..
[19:54] <Debro> KM0201, and HDD :)
[19:54] <KM0201> Debro: ah.. well, that makes it more difficult.
[19:55] <Debro> KM0201, i dont have cash for new video card and i dont think it is worth buying it so i think what can i do with that pc..
[19:55] <Debro> KM
[19:55] <SpamapS> Everyday: OpenStack has a dashboard
[19:55] <KM0201> Debro: but you're still gonna need a display of some sort (at least thats the only way I know how) to set up the server
[19:55] <KM0201> after the server is set up, it can run headless
[19:57] <Debro> KM0201, to boot up it wont need any installed video card..? cause i cant boot windows..
[19:58] <KM0201> no, it won't, but.. to install it you'll need a display of some sort
[19:59] <Debro> KM0201, ok i can try to use broken video card, but it shows me 6-9 small screens  :P
[19:59] <KM0201> Debro: well, thats a start
[20:01] <Debro> mmm.. will server support usb video card?
[20:05] <Debro> KM0201, so with SSH i can access server from my other PC with ubuntu..?
[20:06] <KM0201> yes
[20:06] <KM0201> but it will be all command line..a re you wanting to run a remote GUI?
[20:06] <Debro> KM0201, and all will be just comandline or i can get som GUI also?
[20:06] <Debro> It would be nice to run some GUI
[20:07] <Debro> KM0201, do you now where to find good manuals for all that i must do..?
[20:07] <KM0201> you can get a GUI, but.. agaoin, thats gonna take some more work... you need to do some reading on running ubuntu server
[20:07] <KM0201> Debro: google.. that's the best suggestion i can make
[20:07] <Debro> :D
[20:07] <Debro> ok
[20:07] <Debro> do you have GUI name?
[20:13] <tarvid> service isc-dhcp-server start
[20:13] <tarvid> start: Job failed to start
[20:32] <tarvid> new syntax? added }} at the end of dhcpd.conf and life is good
[21:03] <cwillu_at_work> !info glibc
[21:03] <cwillu_at_work> !info glibc-2.15
[21:03]  * cwillu_at_work stabs
[21:07] <cwillu_at_work> !info libc6
[22:14] <tim[1]> hi
[22:15] <tim[1]> I got a question regarding ubuntu server, i want to install a GUI on my ubuntu server, how can i do that?
[22:16] <tim[1]> anyone?
[22:21] <Patrickdk> tim, install ubuntu-desktop
[22:22] <tim[1]> I just searched on the internet, and found a command: sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop, so I hope that will do it, and thanks for the suggestion ^^
[22:23] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm
[22:23] <Psi-Jack> There's no release notes for 11.10->12.04 yet. :(
[23:08] <uncommitted> is this the appropriate place to ask about an nfs/ldap issue that's driving me bonkers? :)
[23:11] <greppy> uncommitted: it might be, you can ask, if someone can answer, they will :)
[23:15] <uncommitted> okay, so i've got an NFS share that a few of us use, wer'e in a group called "siteops" and the shared directory has 771 permissions. When I first log into the server, I can access this directory just fine. However, after about 20 minutes I can not longer access the directory. Like the group permissions somehow expire.
[23:16] <uncommitted> restarting nscd doesn't seem to make any difference
[23:37] <pipegeek> Hi, folks.
[23:37] <pipegeek> Has anyone successfully preseeded the precise debian-installer yet?  I'm having a heck of a time figuring out why mirror/http/hostname is being ignored.
[23:45] <pipegeek> I'd love to see the source to choose-mirror :)
[23:46] <pipegeek> not from trunk, but specifically the version used in precise
[23:46] <pipegeek> I'm not sure where to look
[23:46] <pipegeek> it doesn't seem to be in the debian-installer source package
[23:47] <pipegeek> heh.  Because it's a separate package.  whew
[23:55] <Psi-Jack> Ermm.\
[23:55] <Psi-Jack> precise "debian" installer?
[23:56] <pipegeek> Psi-Jack: Yes, the installer for ubuntu server is called "debian-installer"
[23:56] <Pici> and alternate, (and minimal?) too.
[23:56] <pipegeek> Psi-Jack: And the version in precise seems to ignore d-i mirror/http/hostname
[23:56] <pipegeek> and /directory
[23:57] <pipegeek> which makes it impossible to specify which mirror to use.
[23:57] <pipegeek> I'm trying to figure out why
[23:57] <pipegeek> I've now got my hands on the choose-mirror source
[23:57] <pipegeek> but if someone who's run into this before wanted to chime in, I"d be much obliged
[23:58] <Psi-Jack> I dunno. heh. I'm waiting on release notes for the upgrade process for 11.10 and 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS


[08:20] <jsgotangco> hi JaneW
[08:31] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco
[11:37] <jsgotangco> ogra, ping?
[11:45] <ogra> jsgotangco, pong
[11:45] <ogra> jsgotangco, you broke my CD yesterday
[11:45] <jsgotangco> ogra, will you be packaging the docs?
[11:45] <jsgotangco> eh?
[11:46] <jsgotangco> i was about to ask that
[11:46] <ogra> obviously the doc-team decided that we dont have a package called ubuntu-quickguide anymore... so edubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop are uninstallable...
[11:46] <ogra> which breaks the install directly after reboot
[11:47] <ogra> and, indeed, i'll be packaging the docs ;)
[11:47] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:48] <ogra> there is already a bug open about it... its just odd to introduce such a harmful change during preview freeze :)
[11:48] <ogra> anyway, i worked around it for now... dunno what ubuntu will do here
[11:49] <jsgotangco> well jbailey was experimenting around with what is currently in svn
[11:49] <jsgotangco> what he did was remove all existing docs and dumped them into ubuntu-doc
[11:49] <ogra> yup, but the binary was called ubuntu-quickguide before... thats what the seeds say... germinate expects it to be there
[11:50] <ogra> so either you depend on ubuntu-docs (which is about being moved to universe because of this change) or you change the seeds...
[11:50] <jsgotangco> hmmm there's still ubuntu-quickguide
[11:50] <ogra> i did the latter for edubuntu, but i think that might be not desired by ubuntu
[11:51] <jsgotangco> wonder if jbailey is aware of it
[11:51] <ogra> nope... there is an old package of ubuntu-quickguide.... there is a ubuntu-doc with a newer version, so this old one wont be installable
[11:51] <ogra> as i said, there is already a bug open about it...
[11:52] <ogra> and Kamion (who filed it) seems not to be after changig the seeds
[11:55] <jsgotangco> what bug is this?
[11:55] <jsgotangco> 14709?
[11:57] <ogra> and 03 ... the need to be merged...
[11:57] <ogra> they even
[11:57] <jsgotangco> yes i'm CC myself
[11:57] <jsgotangco> we can probably split some docs
[11:57] <jsgotangco> quickguide to faqguide but same package
[11:59] <ogra> you should just make sure the seeds show what you actually offer...
[11:59] <ogra> the CD breaks only if this is out of sync.... so either remover ubuntu-quickguide from the seeds or re-introduce the package
[12:00] <jsgotangco> will we be able to remove seeds at this time?
[12:10] <ogra> i think so... but better ask colin/mdz
[12:52] <ogra> hrm
[12:53] <ogra> better :)
[01:06] <jsgotangco> brb
[01:13] <JaneW> ogra: CD is sounding promising :)
[01:14] <ogra> JaneW, two manual steps left, all packages on CD... one step will be gone tonight, the second is a bit trickier, i first have to learn quickly how to make installer packages :)
[01:15] <ogra> but even if we are a day or two later then ubuntu with our preview through that, edubuntu will rock the ltsp world ...  JaneW Another South African born dot-commer (Zip 2and PayPal), involved in space travel http://www.carteblanche.co.za/Display/Display.asp?Id=2879
[01:28] <ogra> the cat is slowly recreating from the surgery...
[01:29] <ogra> s/recreating/recovering/
[01:39] <JaneW> good
[01:41] <ogra> yup
[01:57] <ogra> JaneW, that guy should hire mark as pilot ;)
[02:06] <JaneW> ogra: indeed
[02:06] <JaneW> I loved his comment that he would pay $20M to NOT have to live in Russia for 6 months..
[02:06] <ogra> heh
[03:11] <Carpe_Libertatem> Welcome.
[03:46] <JaneW> ogra: so what license are we using for edubuntu now
[03:46] <JaneW> specifically images?
[03:47] <ogra> creative commons sharealike
[03:47] <ogra> say cc-sa-2.5
[03:48] <ogra> i think elmo wants it for all artwork in the future, even for ubuntu
[03:48] <JaneW> ok
[03:48] <ogra> as far as i understood him on the weeken
[03:48] <ogra> d
[03:49] <JaneW> I think that's what I was tryuing to use first, and then I changed it cos your guys were talking about GPL
[03:49] <JaneW> GDL
[03:49] <ogra> yup... at least you had a CC variant...
[03:50] <JaneW> If I have to stop a bittorrent d/l half way through will I need to start it again from sctratch later, or can it carry on where it left off?
[03:50] <ogra> this one is a bit odd, since you cant just download it as txt file... it took me 20min to reformat it manuall from the html page
[03:50] <ogra> it should just pick up again
[03:51] <JaneW> ok thanks...
[03:52] <JaneW> I started d/ling something lareg which won;t finish before hometime, I wasn;t usre if it would be wasted if I stop it before it ends...
[03:52] <ogra> it should just continue where it stopped... but i'm not a massive           torrentuser
[03:54] <Orby> hello :)
[03:55] <Orby> saw the thing about the torrent, your torrent should resume from where you left it, depending on the client i should check to see how much of the file you allready have and then just get the rest for you
[03:55] <Orby> i havnt seen a client that doesnt support resuming yet...
[03:56] <Orby> oh and sorry if i kinda butted into your convo half way through :P
[03:57] <ogra> Orby, dont worry, thats what the channel is for :)
[04:00] <JaneW> orby np, and thanks
[04:01] <Orby> its ok :), i've been idle in here for a bit, thought it was time i said something :)
[04:01] <ogra> Orby, nice to meet you then :)
[04:01] <Orby> nice to meet you also :D
[04:04] <Orby> i'm in #ubuntu as well, but its giving me a headache trying to read what people are putting, its just scrolling toooo fast :)
[04:04] <JaneW> yes it's pretty hard to keep up there...
[04:04] <ogra> hehe... yes, i started there too
[04:04] <JaneW> LOTS of users
[04:04] <ogra> only 320... thats not much
[04:05] <ogra> at high times there were always around 500
[04:05] <Orby> wow now that is alot
[04:06] <ogra> yup... it has gone down due to the spambot attacs the last days...
[04:06] <Orby> oh ?
[04:08] <ogra> the attacs are less now... but its still not over i think
[04:19] <highvoltage> almost time to go home. aaaaaah.
[04:23] <magnon> ogra: how is the CD now? :)
[04:23] <ogra> see http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
[04:23] <ogra> ;)
[04:24] <ogra> the dhcp reload should be fixed today... the ltsp-build-client is a bit more tricky
[04:24] <ogra> but with those two manual steps its fine...
[04:35] <magnon> ok
[06:42] <danjules> 2
[06:43] <Orby> 3
[06:43] <magnon> 4
[06:43] <Orby> 5
[06:46] <danjules> 6
[06:47] <danjules> i tried to switch windows in irssi but i messed up :)
[06:48] <Orby> :D
[06:48] <ogra> well counted guys :)
[06:50] <magnon> ill install the daily cd right now
[06:50] <magnon> hope it works
[06:50] <magnon> :D
[06:51] <ogra> for me it did...
[06:51] <ogra> 3 times ...
[06:51] <magnon> cool
[06:51] <magnon> I have a server and client ready :P
[06:51] <magnon> anything specific you'd like to have tested?
[06:52] <ogra> just run it ... click around a bit try to use some apps... if you find errors, report them...
[06:52] <magnon> ok
[09:09] <cyphase> hey everyone
[09:10] <ogra> hi
[11:45] <yvesC> hi all
[11:46] <yvesC> someone has tested gcompris from universe ?
[11:46] <yvesC> i think the deb is broken
[11:47] <ogra> yvesC, in breezy ?
[11:49] <yvesC> in hoary.
[11:49] <yvesC> it's fixed in breezy ?
[11:49] <yvesC> gcompris does not find pthon-gtk and run with 50 boards only
[11:50] <ogra> its fixedin breezy....
[11:50] <yvesC> what version is in breezy?
[11:50] <ogra> i havent worked on the hoary package, so i cant judge it, sorry...
[11:51] <yvesC> you have made the breezy package ?
[11:51] <ogra> i had to add a lot of he 7.0 stuff to make it work with our current compiler... so its a 6.5.3 with some 7.0 love added
[11:53] <yvesC> did you test the 7.0 in ubuntu ?
[11:54] <ogra> nope, i just added the appropriate fixes to 6.5.3 to make it work right...
[11:55] <ogra> but 7.0 should compile fine based on my experience with backporting fixes i just didnt compile the whole cvs version...
[11:55] <ogra> i'm confident we'll see it in breezy+1
[11:55] <yvesC> 7.0 needs pysqlite2. It's in breezy?
[11:55] <ogra> i.e. in 6 weeks
[11:55] <ogra> yup
[11:56] <yvesC> good. So we could make a breezy deb for 7.0
[11:56] <yvesC> thanks. I will test breezy tomorrow.
[11:57] <ogra> great :)
[11:57] <yvesC> in edubuntu there will be all breezy ?
[11:57] <ogra> yup
[11:57] <ogra> and gcompris is preinstalled :)
[11:59] <ogra> if you want to install edubuntu wihout ltsp server, just type "workstation" at the CD bootprompt and you get a normal ubuntu desktop with the edubuntu apps and (not yet) the edubuntu artwork
[11:59] <yvesC> great
[12:00] <yvesC> in lstp case, for classroom, system means a login account for each kid ?
[12:02] <ogra> during install you set up the admin account, afterwards you can add accounts as you like...
[12:02] <ogra> i.e. one for every kid if you want to :)
[12:03] <yvesC> ok. It's possible to update from hoary to edubuntu workstation directly?
[12:05] <ogra> should be possible... just do a hoary->breezy upgrade and install edubuntu-desktop on top


[08:20] <mup> Bug #1938754 changed: Power password is returned to UI <sts> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1938754>
[15:54] <mup> Bug #1967322 opened: Commissioning with jammy fails on amd64 machines <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 3.2:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1967322>
[15:57] <mup> Bug #1967322 changed: Commissioning with jammy fails on amd64 machines <MAAS 3.2:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1967322>


[11:58] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:03] <arpan> hello
 Hi, I would like to know if I can set a background color for a single panel (not all panels). Maybe editing a config file or with an extension?
[22:50] <JaQ_17> I just did an update and immediately my keyboard randomly stops working
 I don't believe that is possible (re @estebanncc: Hi, I would like to know if I can set a background color for a single panel (not all panels). Maybe editing a config file or with an extension?)


[03:12] <virtuosoj[m]> Will Ubuntu studio PPA get latest version of Ardour?
[03:42] <Eickmeyer> virtuosoj[m]: It will have to be a separate PPA from the normal Backports PPA since it can break existing Ardour sessions. We want people to be able to add it when they are ready.
[04:19] <chullec32> hi!
[04:19] <chullec32> greetings from Chile!
[16:30] <ranz> hi all. new ubuntustudio user. need suggestion to access googledrive in a similar way as ubuntu classic. anyone?
[16:39] <OvenWerks> ranz: no clue what that means
[16:40] <OvenWerks> google drive is just a website, no?
[16:41] <ranz> actually, not only.  In Ubuntu classic you can map gdrive as a disk on your file manager, and use it as if it's local (but not using local space) it's a good tool
[16:42] <ranz> I have more than one for different jobs
[16:42] <OvenWerks> So is that a part of nautilus?
[16:43] <OvenWerks> try running nautius from command line, it will either come up or give you a: Try: sudo apt install <deb name>
[16:44] <OvenWerks> other than that, maybe ask on #xubuntu
[16:44] <ranz> part of the system settings there is an "account manager" that is not available in Studio, this toll manages the login. tried to install in Studio but fails
[16:45] <Eickmeyer> Different desktop environment. Xfce vs GNOME
[16:45] <OvenWerks> again that is one of those things best asked in #xubuntu
[16:46] <ranz> good point, thanks
[16:46] <OvenWerks> ranz: if you prefer ubuntu vamilla, you may wish to install Studio over top of ubuntu desktop
[16:46] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer | ranz
[16:47] <ranz> this is new for me.  I used to add audio tools on vanilla UBUNTU, but not really stable. that's why changed
[16:47] <OvenWerks> installer adds some system tweaks that can be helpful.
[16:49] <ranz> thanks OvenWerks.   If will not succeed whit pure Studio, will come back tu LTS Ubuntu and tweak it.  another day....
[16:49] <OvenWerks> ok
[20:12] <IAEON> any here have a running realtime kernel?
[23:55] <Eickmeyer> !rt | IAEON
[23:55] <Eickmeyer> TL;DR: Realtime kernels are a BAD IDEA.


[18:19] <ali1234> is CUDA officially supported in ubuntu 22.04, or are we expected to use the nvidia PPA?
[18:20] <ali1234> because it doesn't seem to be possible to install nvidia-driver and nvidia-cuda-toolkit from the repos at the same time - they conflict with each other
[19:56] <maxMcLion3> is there anyone?
[20:17] <maxMcLion3> can someone help me with problem when screen get shifted to the left?
[20:23] <maxMcLion3> or atleast, if i try to run command ubuntu-bug xorg in ubuntu, how do i know, that it gets anywhere?
[20:26] <ali1234> ubuntu-bug should open your browser on the bug report for you to fill in information
[20:26] <ali1234> if you mean, whether the bug will actually get fixed... that is less easy to predict
[20:27] <maxMcLion3> but when i run it with sudo it does not open anything
[20:29] <ali1234> try unsetting DISPLAY
[20:29] <ali1234> DISPLAY= sudo ubuntu-bug xorg
[20:29] <ali1234> that will cause it to print the bug url on terminal
[20:30] <maxMcLion3> thank you, it looks like it works


[12:42] <infinity> BenC: ABI bumps in linux-meta work a lot better if you remember to edit debian/rules.   Uploaded to fix it already.
[01:19] <infinity> BenC: I just enjoy a good public shaming. :)
[01:20] <BenC> infinity: is that listed in your resume under "Extracuricular activity"? :)
[01:20] <infinity> Should be. :)
[01:50] <zul> ooh...i get alot of those
[03:55] <mjg59> BenC: I've just stuck a fix #53910
[04:18] <BenC> mjg59: done
[04:18] <BenC> did it in dapper too
[04:18] <mjg59> Thanks
[04:18] <BenC> thank you
[06:05] <Bryce> Anyone around?
[07:37] <fabbione> BenC: i got all our gfs2 patches upstream modulo the 2 required to run on .17. i will have something to push to you for when you wake up
[07:39] <infinity> He's awake. :)
[07:42] <AnAnt> ping BenC
[07:45] <AnAnt> BenC: does Knot-3 include the TI MMC driver ?
[07:58] <fabbione> infinity: but i am not ready to push yet :)
[10:40] <ant1> ping BenC
[10:42] <AnAnt> BenC: I just upgraded the kernel
[10:43] <AnAnt> BenC: my laptop (it has a TI card reader) did detect that something got in the card slot at last
[10:43] <AnAnt> BenC: but it did not create a suitable device for it in /dev/  (it was an MMC btw)
[11:11] <tonfa> gug
[11:28] <tonfa> I was usually using gentoo and testing -mm kernel, now I have ubuntu on my work laptop and I'd like to continue testing -mm
[11:29] <tonfa> is there a preferred way to do that ?
[11:29] <tonfa> (and tell if that is offtopic)
[01:31] <pina> messing with drivers will have one learning how to mess w/ the kernel build system pretty sharpish
[01:31] <pina> note to self
[02:11] <AnAnt> ping BenC
[02:17] <mjg59> AnAnt: Load tifm_sd
[02:17] <AnAnt> mjg59: ok
[02:20] <pina> suse it's the only one which works with kerberos/ldap out of the box?
[02:20] <pina> doesnt ubuntu?
[02:24] <AnAnt> btw, the splash doesn't work here
[02:24] <AnAnt> it did work from the Knot-3 Live CD
[02:25] <makx> what are your bootargs cat /proc/cmdline ?
[02:26] <AnAnt> well, I am using dapper now, shall I read the args from the grub file ?
[02:27] <AnAnt> makx: kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.17-8-386 root=/dev/hda5 ro quiet splash vga=0x314
[02:28] <pina> makx any hints on what i asked
[02:29] <makx> pina ldap is not on topic here, but it works nicely here (although using Debian)
[02:30] <pina> weird
[02:31] <AnAnt> makx: ?
[02:32] <AnAnt> makx: ok, I'll reboot in Edgy now
[02:32] <AnAnt> later
[02:32] <pina> thanks makx
[02:34] <pina> makx out of the box right?
[02:34] <pina> tried with ubuntu does not work quite that well
[02:34] <pina> oh wel
[02:35] <pina> always thought only suse had it working out of the box
[02:37] <AnAnt> makx: root=/dev/hda5 ro quiet splash vga=0x314
[02:38] <AnAnt> makx: so what you think the problem is ?
[02:38] <AnAnt> makx: I get an error that there is no theme for 640x480
[02:38] <infinity> AnAnt: It's a known bug that edgy's usplash doesn't currently work with vga=
[02:39] <AnAnt> infinity: I tried without vga= too
[02:39] <AnAnt> infinity: didn't work also
[02:39] <mjg59> Well, it works, but you won't get any consoles afterwards
[02:39] <mjg59> The error is due to the artwork not being complete
[02:39] <AnAnt> I can try again without vga=
[02:40] <AnAnt> ok, I just unpacked the initrd image
[02:40] <mjg59> It won't make any difference
[02:41] <AnAnt> I found this in usplash.conf:
[02:41] <AnAnt> xres=640
[02:41] <AnAnt> yres=480
[02:41] <AnAnt> can that be the problem ?
[02:41] <mjg59> 13:39 < mjg59> The error is due to the artwork not being complete
[02:41] <makx> infinity the debian bts has a patch for the fb handling
[02:41] <makx> had no time yet to polish and integrate
[02:42] <makx> -> http://bugs.debian.org/386441
[02:43] <AnAnt> mjg59: I don't understand, it did work from the Knot-3 live CD
[02:44] <AnAnt> mjg59: yet it won't work from the installed version
[02:44] <AnAnt> makx: btw, the MMC worked, thanks
[02:44] <makx> pina : no idea what you mean by out of the box
[02:45] <AnAnt> makx: is it a bug that tifm_sd doesn't automatically load
[02:45] <makx> AnAnt: never heard about tifm_sd and i'm really only a guest here
[02:46] <AnAnt> huh ?
[02:46] <AnAnt> who told me about tifm_sd
[02:46] <AnAnt> mjg59: was it you ?
[02:46] <mjg59> AnAnt: Yes
[02:46] <AnAnt> mjg59: is it a bug that tifm_sd doesn't automatically load
[02:46] <zul> hey mjg59
[02:46] <mjg59> AnAnt: Yes
[02:46] <AnAnt> mjg59: ok, thanks
[02:46] <AnAnt> mjg59: ok back to the usplash thing
[02:47] <AnAnt> mjg59: I don't understand why it works from the Knot-3 Live CD, yet not working from the installed Edgy
[02:47] <mjg59> 13:41 < mjg59> 13:39 < mjg59> The error is due to the artwork not being complete
[02:47] <AnAnt> mjg59: well I seen that
[02:47] <mjg59> And that's why it fails
[02:48] <AnAnt> mjg59: even on the same machine ?
[02:48] <mjg59> There's no 640x480 artwork.
[02:48] <mjg59> Yes.
[02:48] <AnAnt> mjg59: aha, so are there artwork for different resolution ?
[02:48] <mjg59> It would look dreadful otherwise
[02:49] <AnAnt> ok
[02:50] <AnAnt> thanks
[02:55] <AnAnt> btw the linux console has a wierd font after I upgraded
[02:55] <AnAnt> is that kernel related or what ?
[02:55] <zul> no
[02:56] <AnAnt> what then ?
[02:56] <zul> i think its usplash related
[02:56] <AnAnt> zul: again !
[02:56] <AnAnt> so usplash will fix the splash & the font ?
[02:57] <zul> probably
[02:57] <AnAnt> k , cool
[05:21] <zul> ooh when will edgy be 2.6.18 ;)
[05:23] <makx> zul grab d-kernel, but they are vastly mainline :-P -> http://kernel-archive.buildserver.net/debian-kernel/
[05:23] <zul> makx: it was a joke
[05:39] <tonfa> is there a list of patch applied to the ubuntu-kernel somewhere ?
[05:39] <tonfa> (that are not in mainline)
[05:40] <zul> yes in git
[05:41] <tonfa> any git magic to find it ? because i suppose some patch are just backports, other are only in ubuntu's kernel
[05:41] <zul> what are you looking for?
[05:43] <tonfa> if running an -mm kernel instead of the ubuntu one is "safe"
[05:43] <makx> -mm != "safe"
[05:43] <tonfa> if i will lose some features or not
[05:43] <tonfa> makx: i know i'm running on them since a few years
[05:44] <tonfa> and i want to continue that while using ubuntu
[05:44] <tonfa> you can contribute some patches easily while running -mm
[05:44] <tonfa> i like that
[06:02] <BenC> mjg59: ping
[06:04] <mjg59> BenC: Hi
[06:04] <BenC> mjg59: Would it make sense to backport 2.6.18 libata+drivers to our kernel?
[06:05] <BenC> main reason I'm asking is because there's some core2duo ich8 support in 2.6.18 and it's non-trivial backporting this
[06:05] <mjg59> BenC: Urgh.
[06:05] <mjg59> I don't see why not, but it's likely you'll have to suck in scsi as well
[06:06] <BenC> sounds like a cascading effect...ata->scsi->usb+firewire
[06:06] <BenC> hopefully I'll get my core2duo laptop soon enough to test all this junk
[06:08] <Nafallo> hehe, will end up pulling the whole 2.6.18 then ;-)
[06:09] <zul> BenC: uh...kernel-package from unstable you need to create a .config before doing anything
[06:11] <tonfa> BenC: is that the libata part where you have to change your fstab ?
[06:11] <tonfa> because ide is seen as sd*
[06:15] <zul> BenC: the new kernel-package from debian unstable works with 2.6.18 maybe we should consider resyncing one more time
[06:16] <BenC> tonfa: no
[06:16] <BenC> zul: I'm not sure I'll have time to look at it, so you may want to look at what bits need to be synced
[06:16] <zul> sure..
[06:19] <BenC> mjg59: nm, I think I got all the ich8 bits (hopefully)
[07:05] <Nafallo> :-P
[07:14] <desrt> BenC; 'sup
[07:14] <desrt> BenC; i got some good news and some bad news
[07:16] <desrt> good news: the ACPI stuff in -8 causes my laptop to successfully wake up again
[07:16] <desrt> bad news: the ACPI stuff in -8 causes my laptop to go successfully to sleep only occasionally
[07:16] <desrt> it gets suck at some line about SMP Alternatives: Switching to UP code
[07:16] <desrt> and gets no farther than that
[08:30] <svu_tv> BenC, ping
[08:30] <BenC> svu_tv: pong
[08:32] <svu_tv> BenC, just a quick question: is there any way I could help debugging the problem with kernel on G5? Are you aware it is not bootable?
[08:33] <BenC> I'm aware yes, and I have a G5 right here I am going to fix it on by Monday
[08:33] <svu_tv> BenC, thanks a lot, you are just saving my soul
[08:38] <Goliath23> hi
[08:40] <Goliath23> is there a known problem with the linux-k7 package and its dependencies concerning the nvidia driver (or linux-restricted-modules in general) linux-k7 depends on the <IP_ADDRESS> kernel image, but also on the <IP_ADDRESS> restricted modules package... isn't that a mismatch? because on my system the nvidia module fails to load and modprobe says it can't find it ... insmod works though...
[08:43] <Goliath23> in other words: what have I done wrong if modprobe fails to find the nvidia module, but the restricted modules package is installed?
[08:50] <Goliath23> update: when I boot the <IP_ADDRESS> kernel it works and the module is loaded
[08:50] <Goliath23> thats --- strange!
[08:52] <BenC> Goliath23: make sure you have everything updated and in sync
[08:52] <Goliath23> you mean sudo apt-get update & upgrade?
[08:52] <Goliath23> yes, everything is in sync
[08:52] <BenC> Goliath23: and what is out of sync about linux-k7 depending linux-image-2.5.15-27-k7 and linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-27-k7?
[08:53] <BenC> you do have both those packages installed?
[08:53] <Goliath23> for restricted modules its .23!
[08:53] <BenC> you are probably looking at the meta packages
[08:54] <BenC> dpkg --get-selections | grep 2.6.15-27
[08:54] <BenC> show me the output for that
[08:54] <Goliath23> when i install linux-k7, it instales the *.27 image, but that doesn't boot then
[08:54] <Goliath23> k
[08:54] <Goliath23> hold on
[08:54] <BenC> you are saying something wrong, there is no .27, it's -27
[08:54] <Goliath23> ups, sorry
[08:54] <BenC> please make sure you say that right, as it means two different things
[08:55] <Goliath23> david@sun:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep 2.6.15-27
[08:55] <Goliath23> linux-image-2.6.15-27-k7                        install
[08:56] <BenC> you don't have the lrm package installed
[08:56] <Goliath23> lrm?
[08:56] <BenC> sudo apt-get install linux-k7
[08:56] <BenC> linux-restricted-modules
[08:56] <Goliath23> I just did that!
[08:56] <BenC> sudo apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-k7
[08:56] <Goliath23> david@sun:~$ sudo apt-get install linux-k7
[08:56] <Goliath23> Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
[08:56] <Goliath23> Abhngigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut... Fertig
[08:56] <Goliath23> linux-k7 ist schon die neueste Version.
[08:56] <Goliath23> 0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 0 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
[08:56] <Goliath23> david@sun:~$ sudo apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-k7
[08:56] <Goliath23> Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
[08:56] <Goliath23> Abhngigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut... Fertig
[08:56] <Goliath23> linux-restricted-modules-k7 ist schon die neueste Version.
[08:57] <Goliath23> same there...
[08:57] <Goliath23> sorry about my german locales :)
[08:57] <Goliath23> david@sun:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep 2.6.15-
[08:57] <Goliath23> linux-image-2.6.15-23-k7                        purge
[08:57] <Goliath23> linux-image-2.6.15-26-k7                        install
[08:57] <Goliath23> linux-image-2.6.15-27-k7                        install
[08:57] <Goliath23> linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-23-k7           purge
[08:57] <Goliath23> david@sun:~$
[08:58] <Goliath23> I dont know what the purge means !?
[09:00] <BenC> purge means you uninstalled it
[09:00] <BenC> something is broken on your system
[09:00] <Goliath23> how do I repair it? :)
[09:00] <BenC> not something in the kernel/lrm, but something you did :)
[09:00] <BenC> sudo dpkg -P linux-restricted-modules-k7
[09:00] <BenC> sudo dpkg -P linux-k7
[09:01] <BenC> sudo apt-get install linux-k7 linux-restricted-modules-k7
[09:01] <BenC> try that
[09:02] <Goliath23> it says that it removed it and them I reinstalled them. but the output of get-selections is the same..
[09:02] <Goliath23> damnit
[09:03] <Goliath23> is there something like an apt-get --fix-all-strange-things ??
[09:04] <BenC> what packages did apt install?
[09:04] <Goliath23> Die folgenden NEUEN Pakete werden installiert:
[09:04] <Goliath23>   linux-k7 linux-restricted-modules-k7
[09:04] <BenC> dpkg -s linux-restricted-modules-k7
[09:04] <BenC> paste that in privmsg (not in this channel)
[09:06] <BenC> Goliath23: grep -v '^#' /etc/apt/sources.list
[09:06] <BenC> paste that in privmsg too
[09:25] <Goliath23> BenC: thanks a lot, you made my day! everything is up to normal now... man. those sources.list floating around in the net are dangerous
[09:26] <BenC> hehe
[09:55] <ph8`> zul: ping?
[09:58] <zul> ph8`: whats up?
[09:58] <tonfa> any doc about how the initrd is created and special changes in the ubuntu-kernel ?
[10:05] <crimsun> see mkinitramfs(8)
[10:07] <zul> right im off..
[10:07] <tonfa> crimsun: thanks
[10:21] <ph8`> zul: Have you had any feedback about the jmicron patch yet by any chance?
[10:22] <ph8`> There's one guy reporting it doesn't fix the cd-rom detection issue at the moment, i'm just giving it a go myself
[10:23] <ph8`> + if it doesn't work is there anything i can do to help you diagnose?
[12:03] <zul> BenC: ping
[12:04] <zul> about the jmicron drivers i believe there is patch in 2.6.18-rc4-mm for the jmicron drivers but it creates a drivers/ata directory
[12:07] <svu_tv> will mac-on-linux  be supported on eft or not?


[00:29] <Capn> Hey Guys....I've googled it and haven't found much but... which tool (if any) do i use in ubuntu studio for SFZ soundfonts?  I used to use Linuxsampler but thats not here...
[02:28] <alberto> hello
[07:17] <rastamanking> when i try to connect calf to midi on patcher.. the midi controller for calf is red and i cant connect my keyboard.. my keyboard works with hydrogen.. how can i connect calf to my keyboard?
[07:26] <rastamanking> anyone?
[14:59] <Glorfindel> hello, I'm trying to digitize some high8 tapes on my ubuntu pc, I have the camera connected via firewire, but don't know what program to use to get the videos recorded onto the ubuntu system, any ideas?
[15:01] <zequence> Glorfindel: You might want to check out coriander for controlling the camera, though I'm not sure if that is important in this case
[15:01] <zequence> http://damien.douxchamps.net/ieee1394/coriander/
[15:02] <zequence> I have no experience with video over firewire, so that's a whole new realm for me
[15:02] <zequence> It's in UBuntu repos, so you don't need to download from that site
[15:02] <Glorfindel> ok, thank you! I'll check that out, just as soon as the software center starts responding ;)
[15:02] <zequence> Just do: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install coriander
[15:03] <zequence> ..in a terminal
[15:03] <Glorfindel> ok
[15:04] <zequence> Not sure if this is bad "However, any cameras in which you can insert a video tape (camcorders,...) will NOT work with coriander"
[15:04] <Glorfindel> that is the exact type of camera I am trying to get the videos off ;)
[15:05] <Glorfindel> hmm, I'll give it a try anyway...
[15:05] <zequence> Glorfindel: Check this out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCaptureDigitalVideo
[15:05] <zequence> "This guide shows how to configure an i386 system running Ubuntu (Debian based GNU/Linux) to capture from a dv device through an ieee1394 (firewire) interface. "
[15:05] <zequence> That sounds more like you
[15:06] <Glorfindel> hey that sounds perfect :D
[15:06] <zequence> Oh, man
[15:06] <zequence> It's reaaally old
[15:06] <zequence> It's from 2004
[15:06] <Glorfindel> yeah
[15:06] <zequence> Could be you just need to use an application and get going these days
[15:06] <Glorfindel> but this camera is from 98 :P
[15:07] <zequence> What is the model?
[15:07] <Glorfindel> sony digital handycam
[15:09] <zequence> Glorfindel: Try Kino. At least see if any application will see your device
[15:09] <zequence> sudo apt-get install kino
[15:10] <Glorfindel> ok, installing
[15:14] <zequence> I'm pretty lost in this area. But, I would try to just use one or two applications that are normally used for capturing video, and see if that works
[15:14] <zequence> There's also the very simple Cheese
[15:14] <zequence> sudo apt-get install cheese
[15:15] <Glorfindel> kino seems to be working... rewinding the tape right now
[15:15] <zequence> Cool
[15:16] <zequence> I would have tried that myself, actually, first off. But, since I don't have your device, I googled, and got all that other stuff.
[15:17] <zequence> Most certainly that sort of thing was not as simple 10-15 years ago at all times
[15:19] <Glorfindel> Thank you so much! Kino is working perfectly!
[15:19] <Glorfindel> you deserve a raise :)
[15:20] <zequence> Well, I'm doing this for free, so :)
[15:20] <zequence> ..as all the studio developers are.
[15:21] <Glorfindel> you still deserve one ;)
[17:33] <rickcapellano> good afternoon for all
[17:33] <OvenWerk1> good morning...
[17:40] <rickcapellano> I'm living in Brazil rsrsr
[17:41] <OvenWerk1> Vancouver Island here
[17:41] <rickcapellano> great
[17:41] <OvenWerk1> UTC -700 I think
[17:42] <rickcapellano> OMG
[18:19] <Kimryd> You horrified their internet into a timeout


[00:06] <mgz> wallyworld: https://codereview.appspot.com/14930049
[15:14] <davecheney> dimitern: https://github.com/davecheney/socksie
[20:34] <rogpeppe1> mgz: test failure
[22:30] <mgz> smoser: https://codereview.appspot.com/15060051
[22:30] <mgz> this does need some actual live testing, as I can't really unit test that the key is correct I think...


[11:43] <luis220413> My Xen security update for Kinetic (and therefore Jammy to not cause regressions on upgrade) is being blocked by Haskell dependencies. See bug 1982460 and bug 1982554
[11:44] <luis220413> An updated patch to be applied to the version in kinetic-proposed is in the usual bug (bug 1978891). This patch is fully explained in the bug.
[11:45] <luis220413> amurray: ^


[09:30] <yaili_> hi, can someone tell me what is usually the best format to provide a transcript from a video?
[09:30] <yaili_> simple text file, or html? for example.
[09:57] <AlanBell> yaili_: either of those work fine
[09:57] <yaili_> thanks, AlanBell
[09:58]  * AlanBell wonders if yaili_ is going to the Cask tomorrow
[09:58] <yaili_> AlanBell: sadly no, as my parents are arriving from Portugal tomorrow for a visit
[09:58] <AlanBell> ah, ok, have fun with your parents then!
[09:58] <AlanBell> or bring them to the Cask!
[09:59] <yaili_> AlanBell:  :)


[07:19] <mup> PR operator#400 opened: Fix trivial typo in docstring <Created by mthaddon> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/400>
[08:10] <bthomas> !!!!
[08:10] <bthomas> Good Morning
[08:11] <Chipaca> bthomas: ｇｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｄ  ｍｏｒｎｉｎｇ！
[08:14] <Chipaca> bthomas: does erc do colours?
[08:14] <bthomas> Morning Chipaca. Yes ERC does colours by default
[08:15] <Chipaca> phew
[08:15] <bthomas> What really love is it supports LaTeX too. I recently switched to ERC from Pidgin after finding this out.
[09:01] <Chipaca> bthomas: right there insid erc?
[09:01] <Chipaca> inside*
[09:02] <bthomas> Chipaca: You mean LaTeX . If so yes it is using ERC-TeX https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/erc-tex.el
[09:02] <Chipaca> neat
[09:02] <bthomas> I changed the delimiter to $$ from $ since $$ is what other IRC clients seem to use for TeX markup
[09:03] <bthomas> I presume you have seen https://github.com/millejoh/emacs-ipython-notebook
[09:04] <bthomas> and https://sites.google.com/site/imaximaimath/ which is now part of official upstream
[09:19] <Chipaca> i had not, i will add them to my interesting-stuff backlog :)
[09:43] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[10:01] <bthomas> नमस्ते facubatista
[10:02] <facubatista> hola bthomas !
[10:11] <bthomas> Chipaca: I am seeing harness.update_config values set in one unit test persisting in a different unit test even though I have done self.addCleanup(self.harness.cleanup) in setUp(). Is this because I have not used the "unset" argument to update_config ?
[10:11] <Chipaca> bthomas: sounds like you're carrying the stored state database between tests
[10:12] <Chipaca> bthomas: this shouldn't happen (tm)
[10:14] <bthomas> Chipaca: how to I clear StoredState() between tests ?
[10:15] <Chipaca> bthomas: it's an in-memory sqlite, it should not be surviving between tests
[10:15] <bthomas> I do see if I add unset argument to update_config, I can resolve the problem. Is this good enough for now ?
[10:15] <Chipaca> bthomas: i'd even say it can't
[10:16] <bthomas> hmmm
[10:16] <Chipaca> bthomas: something deeper is wrong, so no
[10:16] <Chipaca> bthomas: this is using harness, yes?
[10:16] <bthomas> yes harness
[10:16] <bthomas> Chipaca: ok let me dig, let us catchup after standup if you have time.
[10:17] <Chipaca> bthomas: that's a long time away :) but sure
[10:17] <bthomas> Chipaca: I split my time between writing documentation/unit tests for charm and writing documentation for charmhub.
[10:17] <Chipaca> ok
[11:20] <bthomas> I will be understanding the reactive Charm Hook docs (https://discourse.juju.is/t/charm-hooks/1040) and adapting it for Operator Charms. I am writing my draft in Markdown so that it can be imported into a google doc. If either of this sounds like a bad idea please let me know.
[11:32] <facubatista> bthomas, google docs understand markdown?
[11:33] <bthomas> awesome
[11:33] <bthomas> facubatista: I googled and there seems to be options to import markdown
[11:34] <bthomas> in any case I can always cut/pastes. Using my familar editor and familiar markup for now.
[11:34] <facubatista> oh, nice! it has "export" too? but we'll end up in Discourse, so I don't want to loose that markdown
[11:34] <bthomas> ok I will save it.
[11:34] <facubatista> bthomas, I'm writing in markdown too, I just don't want to lose it
[11:35] <bthomas> got it
[11:57] <Chipaca> facubatista: are we having the bug revue today, or is it docs docs docs?
[11:58] <Chipaca> copy-pasting from google docs into discourse preserves formatting (but it's slightly less pretty than hand-written markdown)
[11:58] <facubatista> Chipaca, let's have it, it should be short
[11:59] <Chipaca> ok
[12:12] <mup> Issue operator#398 closed: Improve opslib functionality <Created by facundobatista> <Closed by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/398>
[12:24] <Chipaca> facubatista: https://k8syaml.com/ fwiw
[12:28] <facubatista> nice
[12:29] <Chipaca> facubatista: yes but also an idea of the size of the problem :)
[12:30] <facubatista> not a problem! but an opportunity :p
[12:45] <Chipaca> facubatista: you say potato i say ghoughpteighbteau
[12:46] <facubatista> ja
[13:16] <bthomas> Looks like I have introduced a bug in my prometheus yaml by a recent code change. So I will switch track back to the charm and fix that before continuing on documentation.
[13:24] <facubatista> bthomas, a bug in the yaml because of a code change?
[13:24] <facubatista> ah, prometheus specific yaml? not cham's?
[13:24] <bthomas> facubatista: looks like it
[13:24] <bthomas> yep prometheus yaml
[13:25] <bthomas> The yaml is generated by code. If we use yaml loaded from disk then I could have validated the yaml by using it to launch prometheus on the host.
[13:26] <jam> o/
[13:26] <facubatista> bthomas, as it's being generated by code, you can test that code
[13:26] <facubatista> hola jam
[13:27] <bthomas> indeed
[13:27] <jam> morning facubatista
[13:27] <bthomas> morning jam
[13:28] <facubatista> jam, question! when "dispatch" explodes in juju's face (because of a syntax error in the charm, *for example*), juju logs in DEBUG the problem: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/gVnm9SsDV2/
[13:28] <facubatista> jam, how difficult it would be that that error is logged in ERROR?
[13:28] <facubatista> (so the user will see the problem by default, without needing her to get the model in DEBUG)
[13:29] <jam> facubatista, IIRC, we log all of the stdout of a script at DEBUG, and we don't do anything special about content of that output
[13:29] <jam> I don't think all stderr should end up at ERROR, maybe WARNING?
[13:31] <facubatista> jam, I don't know if *all* stderr, but at least everything that was shown if the process not ends in 0?
[13:31] <facubatista> or you log before knowing the final outcome?
[13:31] <facubatista> s/you/juju/ :p
[13:31] <jam> facubatista, that would imply buffering everything so that you could change the log level, which is possible but has its own risks
[13:32] <facubatista> jam, which risks? we were thinking maybe about sending all stderr to a temp file and calling `juju-log` on that content, if retcode != 0
[13:32] <facubatista> (doing that in the dispatch script, I mean)
[13:35] <jam> facubatista, do we know whether it is stderr or stdout? (I'm guessing err)
[13:36] <facubatista> jam, stderr, as it's a standard "python crash"
[13:38] <Chipaca> facubatista: it sounds like dispatch should do this itself then
[13:59] <bthomas> seems like I fixed bug. will test and push to github
[14:05]  * bthomas grabs coffee before getting back to writing eloquent prose for charmhub
[14:28] <bthomas> Chipaca: Can I add a 20-30 min 1:1 at 5:00pm to your calendar today ?
[14:38] <Chipaca> bthomas: can it be at 4pm?
[14:38] <bthomas> Chipaca: sure. Adding it now
[14:59] <jam> facubatista, so Juju currently puts stdout and stderr into the same stream and then logs it all at DEBUG: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/7901bce5eef92c2f7af11f0e38cb3f482a25e013/worker/uniter/runner/runner.go#L516
[15:00] <jam> I don't see why we couldn't split that
[15:00] <jam> stderr feels more like Warning than Error to me, though tracebacks would be more Error.
[15:01] <facubatista> jam, the detail is if you wait to have the process finished before logging (so you can decide based on its retcode)
[15:52] <bthomas> https://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html
[15:52]  * facubatista -> lunch
[16:12] <justinclark> For a bit more info on the relations.. Both prometheus and grafana charms are deployed independently. However, "juju add-relation grafana prometheus" returns "ERROR no relations found"
[16:13] <justinclark> It seems like the metadata.yamls for grafana [1] and prometheus [2] are not the issue as they have corresponding endpoints.
[16:13] <justinclark> [1] https://github.com/justinmclark/grafana-charm-base/blob/master/metadata.yaml
[16:13] <justinclark> [2] https://github.com/balbirthomas/prometheus-charm/blob/master/metadata.yaml
[16:15] <bthomas> justinclark: are you providing any more arguments to the the add-relation command line other than application names ?
[16:17] <justinclark> bthomas - just the relation names
[16:17] <bthomas> In that case I do not understand how the two applications know which port and IP to use
[16:18] <bthomas> justinclark: I will give this a try too. Could you try adding --via arguments to add-relation
[16:18] <bthomas> justinclark: I am able to access the prometheus web page from my host system so I know it is serving an http api.
[16:19] <justinclark> So the relation I'm struggling with is the juju relation itself. Regardless of the configuration that needs to happen between the two.
[16:20] <justinclark> I have both apps deployed via juju and can access the grafana dashboard and even add the prometheus datasource to that manually. The problem is just the "juju add-relation" command.
[16:21] <justinclark> bthomas: we can worry about how to set the relation data once we figure this out. Want to hop on a 1-1 call?
[16:22] <bthomas> justinclark: ok will join stand up link in 30 sec
[16:27] <bthomas> justinclark: your link froze and terminated
[16:27] <jam> facubatista, we could do that, though it might be more straightforward if we just always put stderr into INFO/WARNING level, rather than conditional on return code.
[16:31] <bthomas> justinclark: I have both grafana and prometheus charms running on my system
[16:32] <justinclark> Okay - I'm about to rejoin the hangout
[16:41]  * facubatista is back
[16:42] <facubatista> jam, my objective is that people will see errors in the called script by default
[16:43] <facubatista> jam, so all stderr to info/warning, is fine (also to ERROR, as it's stdERR...)
[16:43] <facubatista> if the charm/script is sending stuff to stdERR that is not an ERRor, well, that scrip/charm needs to be fixed
[16:48] <jam> facubatista, well, stderr is for any content that you don't want in your output. eg 'curl' uses it for a progress bar
[16:48] <jam> I don't think the "err" in stderr is that hard defined
[16:48] <facubatista> yeap
[16:48] <facubatista> that's why I'm fine with anything that shows the error to the user by default
[16:49] <facubatista> (without needing to put the model in DEBUG, for example)
[16:49] <facubatista> jam, shall I open an issue about this or you take it?
[16:49] <jam> facubatista, I believe we already have a bug around it, i'll try to track it down, I was using you as a part sounding board for working through it.
[16:50] <facubatista> jam, \o/ wonderful
[16:50] <jam> facubatista, bug #1893993
[16:50] <jam> fwiw
[16:54] <facubatista> jam, thanks
[16:55] <facubatista> bthomas, about using google docs but keeping markdown... for me when I paste into google docs it eats all my newlines, does it happen for you too?
[16:55] <bthomas> facubatista: I have not tried yet
[16:59] <facubatista> bthomas, I'm not finding an "import" either
[17:01] <facubatista> ah! "paste without formatting" doesn't eat my newlines
[17:01] <bthomas> facubatista: import was external plugins.
[17:02] <bthomas> thanks for the paste without formatting tip
[17:49]  * bthomas bbiab
[18:11] <mup> PR operator#400 closed: Fix trivial typo in docstring <Created by mthaddon> <Merged by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/400>
[18:35] <bthomas> justinclark: I am back. Will be online for another hour or two.
[18:50] <justinclark> bthomas: sounds good. I think I'm fairly close. The data is being passed correctly but for some reason isn't recognized by the grafana service. Possibly configuration issues but everything matches the grafana docs as far as I can tell. I'll keep you posted though
[18:51] <bthomas> thanks justinclark : there is always the possibility of bugs in the prometheus code. Do message me at the slightest possibility of this so I can have a look.
[18:52] <justinclark> Actually, I think it is working properly.
[18:53] <bthomas> yay!
[18:53] <bthomas> justinclark: there is a "monitor-k8s" option in the prometheus config, that
[18:54] <bthomas> will make it gather monitoring data from the k8s cluster. I will try this tomorrow. If you are starved for data :-) try that.
[18:59] <mup> PR operator#399 closed: Handle removal of non-existant relation data <Created by stub42> <Merged by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/399>
[19:00] <justinclark> I lied :(
[19:00]  * justinclark punts computer
[19:03] <bthomas> :)
[21:41] <jam> facubatista, to finish the thread we started here https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11980 should address the tracebacks-by-default
[21:41] <mup> PR juju/juju#11980: Change hook stderr output to be logged at WARNING level <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11980>
[22:26] <facubatista> jam, thanks