[00:06] <jose> tsimonq2: I'd like to stick with publishing on Mondays. any reasons why you'd like to shift it?
[00:11] <tsimonq2> jose: I have a hard time getting it out on time.
[00:11] <guiverc> tsimonq2, let on-time be when you say it is!
[00:11] <tsimonq2> guiverc: lol
[00:11] <tsimonq2> Which is why I want to shift it
[00:12] <tsimonq2> Because it's a lot easier to publish on Tuesday nights than it is on Monday nights
[00:12] <tsimonq2> (for me)
[00:15] <tsimonq2> jose: Any reason why you think it's good where it is?\
[00:16] <jose> the idea is to have a cycle, and pushing the cycle forward can break things
[00:16] <jose> if you need help publishing, I might be able to do so
[00:18] <jose> I've had a couple busy weeks, but with oscon out of the map now I have a bit more time
[00:18] <jose> also, it doesn't have to be published on the evenings. I can probably do it during lunchtime as well
[00:18] <tsimonq2> Ok
[00:18] <tsimonq2> Alright :)
[00:19] <tsimonq2> We can work things out


[22:19] <flocculant> balloons: moar g stuff then :)
[22:49] <balloons> flocculant, fingers crossed it all works out
[22:49] <flocculant> good luck :)


[10:30] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Drop obsolete blueman gconf defaults @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/7d9cd6720d1202b682de2d94a4c17ce1c0715ec7 (by bluesabre)
[10:30] <bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
[10:36] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 22.04.0 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/811cf75dd6bcc2c00bf9cdd0871944ec3bea14bb (by bluesabre)
[11:23] <bluesabre> Unit193, ochosi, mind following up on the wallpaper contest email? Final Freeze is this week, so we need to get the wallpapers finalized and uploaded.
[11:26] <bluesabre> I'd recommend knome's suggestion so voting is easier (not to drive you in any one direction)
[11:28] <bluesabre> Also, I've published an xfce4-settings package here with the firefox snap fix: https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu
[11:29] <bluesabre> And finally, if nobody has any other changes for the docs, they're ready to roll: https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/pull/20
[13:34] <bluesabre> Updated our translations on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
[15:28] <bluesabre> Went ahead and uploaded the xfce4-settings package after verifying on another device


[04:08] <Unit193> Ohio Emergency Responders Stage Mock Zombie Invasion
[11:21] <jrgifford> Unit193: Wouldn't be surprised. :P
[18:43] <thafreak> So...is arch linux the new gentoo?
[18:44] <dzho> that's my sense of it
[18:47] <thafreak> Interesting...
[20:10] <_bbb> im too lazy for either
[20:12]  * jrgifford high-fives _bbb
[20:12] <jrgifford> yay for being lazy.


[05:55] <zequence> These namings make me learn more English
[06:00] <zequence> Think I'm going to do a couple of apps for the phone this month, to see how that works
[06:00] <zequence> Would be nice to get controls for jack to begin with. Also, some simple recording software.
[06:00] <zequence> ..and I'd like to be able to run pd patches on it as well
[06:13] <zequence> Actually, might as well make -controls have an app version, which can set up rt privilege and control jack, and PA integration
[06:14] <zequence> I'll start working on that next week, once I get inemployed again
[06:14] <zequence> unemployed*
[08:28] <zequence> I'm thinking of scopes too. We should add a Ubuntu Studio scope
[14:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: how is the latency? Are you dealing directly with alsa? It seems to me the docs I have read indicate that androids latency problems come not from HW so much as the extra layers between alsa and the application.
[14:26] <zequence> OvenWerks: Seems to be PA. Haven't actually investigated
[14:27] <zequence> I tried the simple piano app, with which you can play one note at the time
[14:27] <zequence> There is latency, no doubt
[14:27] <zequence> But it's not half a second. It's small, but very audible
[14:27] <OvenWerks> zequence: on android a simple piano is not playable because of latency
[14:28] <OvenWerks> I also put a "drum kit" on it and it was a waste of time for latency
[14:28] <zequence> Haven't tried anything with jack yet. There's probably nothing I can run with it
[14:29] <OvenWerks> zequence: I think PA can be set to different latencys (buffer size)
[14:29] <zequence> Still know all too little about the system, but I'm assuming you can have it run jack in realtime pretty easily
[14:29] <zequence> Haven't actually tried PA latency on the desktop, so don't know how it compares
[14:30] <OvenWerks> for most desktop use latency doesn't really matter
[14:30] <OvenWerks> phone use is the only one.
[14:31]  * OvenWerks considers tracking/swsynth not to be desktop use.
[14:31] <zequence> Time to head home. bb in a while
[14:31] <OvenWerks> ok
[14:31] <OvenWerks> I just woke up :)
[16:55] <zequence> OvenWerks: Good morning then :)
[16:59] <zequence> The browser is ok on the Ubuntu phone, and I can make calls and sms's. Also, there's a pretty ok Kodi app, which I just found.
[16:59] <zequence> Other than that, it's just good looking
[16:59] <zequence> And, the indicator menu is not very fun to navigate, all though it looks cool
[17:00] <zequence> I need owncloud support. Hard to get on any platform so you can get all-in-one
[17:01] <zequence> I'm still going to prefer it over almost any other kind of phone right now.
[20:30] <OvenWerks> zequence: my wife keeps threatening to give her old nex4 to me in which case I will be trying touch for sure.
[20:41] <zequence> OvenWerks: I just had a go using the Ubuntu SDK. A lot of stuff I've never dealt with.
[20:42] <zequence> I think it was Nokia who developed QML, which is a javascript way of creating QT interfaces
[20:42] <zequence> Then, you have a lot of other stuff to figure out too. And you can use C++, which I have never learned
[20:43] <zequence> Also, not sure 2 month old examples are going to work on the latest IDE
[20:43] <zequence> ..and libraries
[20:43] <zequence> There are a lot of options for sure
[20:44] <zequence> Going to take some time to get into it, and also learn a bit of C++ while I do that
[20:45] <zequence> When you plug in the phone with USB, what you see is the home folder. Very simple. Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc
[20:45] <zequence> I like that.
[20:50] <zequence> Yeah, you might get a bit inspired too perhaps, if you get one in your hand :)
[20:59] <OvenWerks> zequence: c++ is slow going for me. I can at least write working c, though I often find debugging someone elses code tough. I don't do so well writing c++ though.
[21:29] <micahg> bug 1450992 was accepted to -proposed if anyone's interested in doing the verification
[21:37] <OvenWerks> micahg: thankyou. Will take a look... after I figure out (again) how to enable proposed.
[21:40] <micahg> OvenWerks: there's a link in the bug to do that
[21:40] <OvenWerks> Good, what I was doing showed everything but ardour.
[21:41] <micahg> s/to do/on how to do/
[21:41] <kubotu> micahg meant: "OvenWerks: there's a link in the bug on how to do that"
[21:41] <micahg> hi kubotu
[21:41] <kubotu> salut, micahg
[21:46] <OvenWerks> Maybe it hasn't made it in there yet? (64bit)
[21:48] <OvenWerks> got it
[21:50] <OvenWerks> installed
[21:51] <micahg> normal usage stress testing would probably be sufficient, I've never used it, so can't really speak to what testing is appropriate
[21:51] <micahg> and that existing files open ok in the new version
[22:07] <OvenWerks> micahg: That seems to be a problem... I have moved some sessions and they don't work anymore, but then they don't work in ardour 4 either. A new session works, records, plays back etc. and sessions that have not been moved work ok too.
[22:14] <micahg> hrm
[22:14] <micahg> that sounds like a big problem
[22:15] <micahg> 3->4 can be understandable (would warrant a NEWS entry, but understandable), 3->3 seems problematic
[22:17] <OvenWerks> micahg: At this point I really can't say when the last time I opened one of those sessions was. The saved file format for ardour 3 and 4 is supposed to be interchangable.
[22:18] <OvenWerks> As I say, I may have mess them up when moving things around to clean things up give more disk space.
[22:19] <OvenWerks> My project directory is now a link to another disk. This works fine for new projects.
[22:22] <OvenWerks> *** Error in `/usr/lib/ardour3/ardour-3.5.403~dfsg-3~ubuntu14': double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x00007fc9780015c0 *** doesn't sound real good
[22:23] <OvenWerks> Things created recently seem to work.
[22:24] <OvenWerks> Things created with A4 work.
[22:28] <OvenWerks> MIDI i/o works (for control surfaces anyway)
[22:34] <OvenWerks> micahg: The stuff that is causing trouble was done in 12.04. And some that I have tried are originally a2 projects.
[22:35] <OvenWerks> Anything current works, and anything that works with binaries from the ardour site works with the new a3 too.
[22:35] <micahg> can you downgrade and create one in utopic or trusty and then upgrade again?
[22:36] <OvenWerks> I am running trusty, I will try on an older partition.
[22:36] <OvenWerks> B in bit.
[22:39] <micahg> OvenWerks: I meant downgrade ardour :)
[22:50] <OvenWerks> micahg: Thats ok. booted 12.04 (wow have things changed sinse then...)
[22:51] <OvenWerks> created an ardour session with ardour 2 and one with ardour 3.
[22:51] <OvenWerks> the new ardour 3 is able to load and play both of them.
[22:53] <micahg> awesome
[22:55] <OvenWerks> trying the downgrade ardour option too.]
[22:57] <micahg> 12.04 doesn't have ardour3
[22:57] <OvenWerks> Mine does...
[22:57] <micahg> haha
[22:57] <OvenWerks> (binary dl from ardour.
[22:59] <OvenWerks> micahg: all of the sessions that didn't work on the new a3 don't work with 308 either
[22:59] <OvenWerks> So I would put that down to bad files/sessions.
[23:00] <micahg> ok, that's good, can we please also check if our ardour3 files created in trusty work with the new upgrade?
[23:00] <OvenWerks> just doing that now.
[23:00] <micahg> great, thans
[23:00] <micahg> s/thans/thanks/
[23:00] <kubotu> micahg meant: "great, thanks"
[23:00] <micahg> salut kubotu
[23:00] <kubotu> yo micahg :)
[23:03] <OvenWerks> I guess I have to upgrade again now... to try it out in 403
[23:04] <micahg> right :)
[23:07] <OvenWerks> looks good, plays back old project and was able to add another track and record. session saves and reloads too.
[23:07] <micahg> awesome, so that means 14.04 passes?
[23:07] <OvenWerks> micahg: this is not a real complete test, but that would really take a long time
[23:07] <OvenWerks> I would pass it yes.
[23:08] <micahg> well, I'll leave it to you and zequence how much testing you want to do for the SRU
[23:08] <micahg> I'm just here to push buttons :)
[23:09] <OvenWerks> Ja, where do I go to call it verified?
[23:09] <OvenWerks> On the bug report I guess
[23:10] <micahg> yeah, there should be instructions in the second link about SRU verification
[23:10] <micahg> 14.10 will need to be checked as well
[23:11] <OvenWerks> basically says add a comment to the bug.
[23:12] <micahg> and the comment mentions updating the tag from verification needed to verification-done, but I'd suggest adding something like verification-done-trusty
[23:12] <OvenWerks> right.
[23:21] <OvenWerks> I don't have 14.10 available to me. zequence may have a loaded copy already.
[23:48] <OvenWerks> zequence: I have tested ardour3 in proposed on trusty, do you have 14.10 installed somewhere?
[23:48] <OvenWerks> zequence: it needs a verify there.


[00:00] <xivulon> TheMuso on a separate topic, do we have software raid support? if so can you check lupin-casper takes advantage of it?
[00:01] <mpt_> TheMuso, at UDS if you have a spare half hour or so and wouldn't mind, could you go through the Ubuntu Software Center with a screenreader? We've had sporadic reports that one or another section is inaccessible, but no steps to reproduce the problem, and I don't really understand Accerciser's output.
[00:02] <mpt_> TheMuso: (or at least show me how to use Orca myself :-) )
[00:16] <TheMuso> mpt_: sure
[00:16] <mpt_> thanks TheMuso
[00:18] <mpt_> Hm, all the URLs in hm, all the links in https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-documentation/de/+translate look correct
[21:04] <dr_kludge> greets!
[21:04] <dr_kludge> my netboot setup fails to get the preseed file,
[21:04] <dr_kludge> even though preseed_fetch from the terminal succeeds.
[21:04] <dr_kludge> what gives/
[21:04] <dr_kludge> ?
[21:05] <dr_kludge> (i will happily provide error messages, config files, etc. on request)
[21:06] <dr_kludge> (using karmic netboot image)
[21:51] <Mathrys1029> i installed ubuntu 9.04 not sure of the "name" went in and used the automatic updater, got the latest updates for 9.04 then tried to update to 9.10 and it said i need 15gb to update and it says i have 14gb are we really upto 15gb os systems?
[21:52] <Mathrys1029> should i just use my win box and get the 9.10 iso and go that route
[21:54] <Mathrys1029> brb need to restaer
[21:54] <Mathrys1029> restart
[22:08] <dr_kludge> heh... nm.  checksum oops.


[02:40] <darwin> KUbuntu won't use KDE(P)6 for initial 24.04... does it potentially come later in 24.04 or would it only be for non-LTS then maybe next LTS?
[02:58] <RikMills> darwin: fully supported, 24.04 LTS will not get plasma 6
[02:59] <RikMills> perhaps in a PPA some time down the line, but obviously that would be use at your own risk
[03:00] <darwin> thanks
[12:41] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[19:46] <jonathan_> hi


[01:02] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[01:03] <daftykins> \o
[01:03] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: see the Samsung 950s finally are the drives we're looking for, for NVMe M.2 :D
[01:04] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[01:04] <lotuspsychje> nice! lemme check on those
[01:05] <daftykins> they dropped the warranty though
[01:06] <lotuspsychje> wow crazy speeds
[01:06] <lotuspsychje> 5 years now
[01:06] <lotuspsychje> still better then 2 years 'legal' waranty though
[01:07] <lotuspsychje> but the mobo needs to be nvm ready right?
[01:08] <daftykins> yep, but to have M.2 it would be anyway
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> this is such good news for my ubuntu store tnx for the tip daftykins
[01:08] <daftykins> you're really looking at a nice skylake LGA-1151 platform really
[01:08] <daftykins> np ^_^
[01:08] <daftykins> NVMe seems to be quite the improvement
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu 64bit LTS + 950 + i5 or i7
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> gonna rocknroll
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> !-16 gig ram lol
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> 8
[01:09] <daftykins> i wonder how quick working Linux drivers will be, to the party :)
[01:09] <daftykins> heh i'd totally consider 16GB a minimum now
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: for the average user also?
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> would be real high end ultrabooks like that for sure
[01:10] <daftykins> depends on usage really
[01:10] <daftykins> i think i'm thinking of building for myself mainly when saying that
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> i dont see alot of 16gig ram+ in my country yet
[01:11] <lotuspsychje> yeah would be a beast :p
[01:12] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: whats max speed for m.2?
[01:12] <daftykins> well typically you've got a 4x PCI-E slot right now, so whatever the top of PCI-E v3 4x is :)
[01:12]  * daftykins checks
[01:13] <daftykins> 500MB/sec it seems
[01:13] <daftykins> per 1x
[01:13] <daftykins> ah no 1GB per sec per lane
[01:14] <daftykins> so it'd be 4GB/sec presumably o0
[01:16] <TJ-> Drivers for NVMe have been in the kernel since 2012
[01:17] <lotuspsychje> nice nice
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> so it will totaly max out samsungs new 950 speeds right
[01:18] <daftykins> doesn't mean they work well :)
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> 4 times faster then the 850
[01:19] <daftykins> Microsoft's isn't good yet so Samsung are shipping their own
[01:19] <TJ-> That's the theory; we also have block multiqueue and may of the block modules have been adapted to use it
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> samsung is becomming a huge monster
[01:19] <daftykins> i think you'd be hard pushed seeing the top speeds of contiguous write from the 950s unless you have two in M.2 slots :>
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> with their popular samsung pay
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> so for regumar sata boxes best stick to the 850 pro
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> regular
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> im gonna do alot of win to ubuntu convertings, mostly sata
[01:21] <TJ-> Anything on SATA is going to use AHCI
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> yep
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: and whats max sata bottleneck speed?
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> 500?
[01:24] <lotuspsychje> oh here's a nice one: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9650/samsung-announces-950-pro-ssd-their-first-consumer-vnand-nvme-ssd
[01:25] <TJ-> depends on the controller/device combo generally SATA 3 is 6Gbps max
[01:25] <lotuspsychje> ok
[01:26] <daftykins> but it had a high protocol overhead so the most you see in the top SSD benchies is ~500MB/sec
[01:26] <TJ-> The main benefit of NVMe is it is a PCIe connection without any SATA interface, and it is designed for parallel operations rather than serialised
[01:28] <daftykins> no NVMe is the protocol, it doesn't influence being in a PCI-E slot
[01:28] <TJ-> random-write of 100K IOPS is useful
[01:28] <TJ-> Yes it does
[01:28] <daftykins> no, earlier M.2 has still been running AHCI just fine
[01:29] <TJ-> NVMe takes advantage of using the PCI-E lanes
[01:29] <lotuspsychje> price for the average desktop user will rise though with that 950
[01:29] <daftykins> sure it takes advantage because AHCI was designed back with mechanical, but the way you worded it was you made it out like *all* PCIe storage is NVMe :>
[01:29] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: and so does performance
[01:29] <TJ-> All NVMe is PCIe
[01:30] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: true
[01:30] <daftykins> right but not all PCIe is NVMe :>
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> 16.04 + 950pro sexy
[01:31] <daftykins> :)
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> its gonna be a wind0ws killer
[01:32] <daftykins> ...no :)
[01:32] <lotuspsychje> yes a 10 killer :p
[01:32] <daftykins> lol no
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> ill make everyone forget ubuntu remix for sure in my country
[01:33] <daftykins> oh dear this NAS really is dead, responds to ping but won't even give me the web admin anymore
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> wich brand
[01:33] <daftykins> 7 year old WD My Book World Edition II
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> loool
[01:33]  * lotuspsychje hates wd
[01:33] <daftykins> more of a toy :)
[01:33] <daftykins> nothing wrong with WD \o/
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> i had so many data loss on those wd books
[01:33] <daftykins> well, drives are fine, not so much their appliances like this :>
[01:34] <lotuspsychje> i swear by seagates for mechanical
[01:34] <daftykins> it's a clients backup drive for her macs, i'm going to call it retirement time now
[01:34] <daftykins> seriously? they have the shortest warranty length and highest failure rate of all brands on their 3TB models
[01:34] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: whats your fav hd?
[01:35] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: i dont like too big drives in a box
[01:35] <daftykins> that 'davidlinuxidiot' user seems to have another of those windows 8.1 Bing edition acer things
[01:36] <daftykins> TJ-: did you ever solve that guy a while agos boot issues that had one?
[01:36] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:36] <lotuspsychje> i really dont understand why ppl messing with w8 uefi dualboots
[01:37] <lotuspsychje> i formatted so many boxes single with trusty now
[01:37] <daftykins> well 8.1 with bind is some retarded edition that's clipped i think from the outset, so probably trying to put on a fully featured OS for free
[01:37] <lotuspsychje> looool
[01:37] <daftykins> although actually maybe it was only the default search engines, i don't remember
[01:37] <daftykins> all i remember is that bug cropping up because they couldn't have another OS installed, due to booting a 32-bit EFI
[01:38] <daftykins> pretty sure TJ- proved i was wrong about that on these acer models though
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> that would be a nice comercial MOTD
[01:38] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Fave? one that works
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> win10 the retarded edition
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: dont have favorite brands you would buy?
[01:38] <TJ-> daftykins: yeah, it was a weird issue with the UEFI setup
[01:39] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's pointless. All manufacturers have good and bad batches/models
[01:39] <lotuspsychje> yes, so you dont buy the ones with bad models
[01:40] <lotuspsychje> maybe i should have asked favorite model + brand
[01:41] <lotuspsychje> but nvm :p
[01:43] <daftykins> now now, your Windows hatred drags down your e-persona :D
[01:44] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> win was already a warzone of exploits..
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> now with the retarded edition...they will hit a worldwide record
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> spyware and exploit bundle
[01:47] <daftykins> :( makes me sad to see you act like all OSs aren't without their problems
[01:48] <lotuspsychje> yeah sure ios9 with siri! lol
[01:48] <lotuspsychje> another bad nightmare
[01:49] <lotuspsychje> more stolen celeb pics about to come out
[01:55] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: not at all, I've been around long enough to realise a 'favourite' is blind bias. Favourites can have bad batches
[01:57] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: you mean investigating a picking carefully is better? thats the lesson out of this?
[01:58] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: when I was still running IT companies we would regularly settle on a particular make/model and then get hit by bad batches (by which I mean failure rates of 25%+ within 6 months)
[01:58] <lotuspsychje> i see
[01:58] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: we learned to simply use several different manufacturers/models/technologies to avoid taking a major hit
[01:58] <lotuspsychje> thats good thinking
[01:59] <TJ-> it cost less even though the per-unit cost was higher because we couldn't get larger volume discounts, because we saved on the replacement costs
[01:59] <lotuspsychje> not have the mass similar bugs
[01:59] <TJ-> Every replacement meant an engineer sent out on site; possibly some data-recovery element, too
[01:59] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but in the back of your head there must be a base thought os stability too right?
[01:59] <lotuspsychje> of
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> you ant go choose random stuff neither right
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> cant
[02:00] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: generally, buy the devices the manufacturers stand behind with decent warranties
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> like the 850pro dangerous 10 years :p
[02:01] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: enable full smart monitoring and alerting, and act on it
[02:01] <lotuspsychje> ok
[02:01] <lotuspsychje> we learn years of experience tricks here :p good one TJ-
[02:03] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I entered the PC business when the IBM PC was released :)
[02:04] <lotuspsychje> nice nice
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> im little younger started
[02:05] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I recall for 1 research project the manufacturer shipped me 4 320MB (MB!) SCSI full height external drives directly from the factory because they were keen on winning the supply contract. Back then you could have decent relationships with the manufacturers and their engineers. Nowadays its all about volume and commodity and you have no influence
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> with c64 for apetizer
[02:06] <lotuspsychje> thats true
[02:06] <lotuspsychje> big data world now
[02:06] <TJ-> Not so much that; but at the comsumer PC end everything is driven on price, and miserly margins
[02:06] <lotuspsychje> thats why i wanna start business close and personal service
[02:06] <TJ-> there is no margin for the supplier to provide decent support unless you're buying 100,000 drives
[02:08] <lotuspsychje> like EriC^^ suggested alibaba container full boxes
[02:08] <TJ-> If you have a good relationship with the supplier sure, otherwise you might be getting the pickings of the reject bin
[02:08] <lotuspsychje> so with my small business ill be a nobody
[02:09] <TJ-> Direct Chinese supply is alll about the personal relationship. Arms-length doesn't work at all
[02:09] <lotuspsychje> but still make clients happy with decent ubuntu experience
[02:09] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Yes, to make a margin to actually make a living you'll need to provide a level of support they recognise and want and are prepared to pay for.
[02:10] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so you have to go to the pink bar with the chinese boss to relation lol like in the movies
[02:10] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: and to make that work for you, you have to automate every possible step of the process from supply to post-sales support so it doesn't eat up your most valuable asset: time
[02:10] <lotuspsychje> im gonna do business from own home
[02:10] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: With the Chinese their business culture is all about relationships and helping each other out, getting commissions for introductions, helping other family members, etc.
[02:11] <lotuspsychje> small, personal, lil more time
[02:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Yes, and a pre-configured remote support option that gives you fast and easy access to the customer's PC as soon as they give you permission to connect.
[02:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: over ssh?
[02:12] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: We found that was our key selling point. Once we demonstrated connecting to their PC to help them within 5 seconds of a phone call coming in, they loved us
[02:12] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: For Linux, yes.
[02:13] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'd preconfigure a VPN server that all customer's can allow their PC to connect to for support, then connect to their PC using SSH within the VPN tunnel.
[02:13] <lotuspsychje> nice idea
[02:13] <lotuspsychje> instant remote solving
[02:13] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that way you don't have to worry about getting through their firewall/NAT, since their PC makes the outbound connection to your public server.
[02:13] <lotuspsychje> but the problem is i dont very like unsecure remote things running 24/7
[02:14] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: You could even sell them a value-add service: remote health monitoring, and simply have a script on their PC submit the /var/log/ files once a day to you via the VPN, and have automated grepping of them for signs of problems
[02:14] <daftykins> that's also do-able with VNC listen, albeit sounds a lot safer :D
[02:14] <lotuspsychje> brrrr no vnc
[02:15] <daftykins> ^_^
[02:15] <daftykins> just one from the many moons ago
[02:15] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: The customer doesn't need the VPN up unless they need help, or for submitting reports, which can auto up/down the VPN
[02:15] <lotuspsychje> i like the instant remote help for time saving
[02:16] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: once you've called a customer and warned them about a problem on their PC they weren't aware of, word of how amazing you are will spread rapidly
[02:16] <lotuspsychje> good hint
[02:16] <lotuspsychje> hmmm nice+
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> alot of pc stores i know installing linux, are root on a customers box
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> and no rights for the user lol
[02:17] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: use dedicated email for support, where each PC/sale gets a unique email address e.g<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:17] <lotuspsychje> cool
[02:18] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: have the PC configured to submit reports by email instead of VPN, maybe, and have the address pre-set in the mail client, and a browser bookmark to your customer help login, etc.
[02:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah browser bookmark surely good idea
[02:18] <lotuspsychje> as i config firefox with speed dial bookies
[02:19] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: a week spent preparing such facilities before the business launches will pay back very quickly. Trying to put the process in-place after you start is a nightmare
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> fast and easy
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> also good thinking
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> maube i should make a pstree of the whole process
[02:20] <lotuspsychje> ill write all the hint togheter
[02:21] <lotuspsychje> then make flowchart before acting
[02:21] <TJ-> It's worth using a proper project planning aid for this kind of thing, so you can assign realistic time to the various tasks and identify the critical path
[02:22] <lotuspsychje> yeah but not everyone is t3ch enough like you to see the truth in IT comerce
[02:23] <lotuspsychje> my school lesson for the business degree, they wanted to meet other IT business togheter with me, and they even didnt understand what 'barebone' was
[02:23] <TJ-> There's a neat Project Planner I use; on my Trusty install right now, trying to recall what its called. Rational Plan I think. Very good value, and very well worth it
[02:24] <lotuspsychje> nice!
[02:24] <TJ-> see http://www.rationalplan.com/project-management-products.php
[02:25] <TJ-> I use the MultiProject version but you'd be fine with the SingleProject
[02:25] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[02:25] <TJ-> Single is free for Linux, but the US$57 is extremely good value if you choose to buy
[02:30] <TJ-> daftykins: did you see davidlinuxidiot's Acer solution!?
[02:33] <TJ-> Acer UEFI defaults to booting the first valid Boot Menu entry. Re-ordering the entries on the "Boot" Setup screen works.
[02:43] <TJ-> F12 key at boot brings up the Boot Menu, too
[02:44] <daftykins> he already had WBM at the end and the disk first, i thought that was all that was needed
[02:47] <TJ-> daftykins: It seems as if the Boot menu only lists 8 entries, so Ubuntu never showed up even though it was in the boot menu.
[02:48] <TJ-> It seems as if the Boot menu is always populated by the fixed and removable device loaders first, which pushes everything else off the menu
[02:48] <TJ-> sorry, pushes it off the *displayed* menu
[02:49] <TJ-> I suspect number 9 would have been Ubuntu, since efibootmgr showed Windows was Boot0002 and Ubuntu Boot0003
[02:49] <daftykins> haha, oh dear that's an odd one
[02:49] <daftykins> seems Acer need to go on our bad guys list
[02:49] <TJ-> Yeah, no wonder we've been caught out by it so many times!
[02:49] <TJ-> At least we now know what to do without hours of frustration :)
[02:50] <daftykins> weird how the standard disk device doesn't pass to GRUB ok
[02:50] <TJ-> I suspect because it's trying the Simple Media Path (EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI)
[02:51] <TJ-> I recall solving one of these by copying the grub boot loader to that path
[02:51] <TJ-> So it's an InsydeH2O BIOS issue, not just Acer
[02:52] <TJ-> s/BIOS/UEFI/
[02:52] <TJ-> I'll save the photos of the Setup screen; might be helpful later
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> !info firefox
[06:46] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/ubuntu-16-04-lts-aims-to-be-an-os-with-great-accessibility-features-492672.shtml
[07:17] <lordievader> Good morning
[23:59] <daftykins> O_.
[23:59] <daftykins> the weekend is upon us


[00:31] <Unit193> Well that's not good.
[00:32] <Unit193> pleia2: While running a reboot for CVE-2023-32233, dev.xubuntu.org didn't come back.
[00:32] -ubottu:#xubuntu-devel- In the Linux kernel through 6.3.1, a use-after-free in Netfilter nf_tables when processing batch requests can be abused to perform arbitrary read and write operations on kernel memory. Unprivileged local users can obtain root privileges. This occurs because anonymous sets are mishandled. <https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2023-32233>
[00:42] <pleia2> hmm, linode thinks it's running
[00:43] <pleia2> I'll have to look later, I'm at dinner on my phone
[00:45] <Unit193> No problemo.  I can't ping so it seemed dead, I'd hit it with a reset.
[03:12] <pleia2> rebooted in the linode console and all is well again
[03:12] <Unit193> Great, thanks!
[03:24] <Unit193> (Sorry for intrrupting dinner too!)
[17:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.7 released @ http://www.mail-archive.com/xfce-announce@xfce.org/msg00861.html


[00:00] <valorie> mainline ubuntu uses gnome desktop and apps
[00:00] <valorie> we use Plasma and KDE apps
[00:00] <valorie> we all work together
[00:00] <Guest2911> okaay
[00:01] <valorie> there are quite a few flavors of ubuntu
[00:01] <valorie> for instance Ubuntu Studio is for creatives
[00:01] <Guest2911> and kubuntu
[00:01] <valorie> and it also uses Plasma and some KDE apps
[00:02] <valorie> so we work more closely with them on those common things
[00:02] <Guest2911> okay
[05:07] <Guest24> Hello everyone o/
[05:08] <Guest24> Looking foe help upgrading my hirsuite 20.4 to the alst Kubuntu 21.10 I think
[05:09] <Guest24> do-release-upgrade doesn't propose to upgrade while saying that I'm EOL
[05:10] <Guest24> update-manager GUI propose to update but after I click Upgrade it quit
[05:17] <Guest24> Nvm go it fixed
[06:35] <dez> I just installed 21.04 over 20.04 without formatting the disks.
[06:35] <dez> Almost all of the system and program settings are still intact.
[06:37] <alkisg> You can preserve /home/username (along with all user data and settings) even among different distributions and desktop environments...
[08:57] <dez> https://vk.com/video-211009300_456239090 my Kubuntu
[11:07] <user|13> I have installed kubuntu. Now while logging in, along with kde, gnome and gnome wayland are also showing
 AMTD
 KMTD
 Thank you.
 I have installed Kubuntu, while logging in it is showing three options: kdeplasma, gnome &gnome wayland. How can I remove the gnome & gnome wayland safely.
 I tried removing ubuntu desktop, but while rebbotung it has shown file broken error. Again I ve installed gdm3 package.
 Is there any safe way to remove gnome and gnome wayland?
[11:39] <oerheks> adding a desktop is no problem, removing one can be interesting..
[12:07] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 what kind of Kubuntu have you installed ? (re @IrcsomeBot: <user|13> I have installed kubuntu. Now while logging in, along with kde, gnome and gnome wayland are also showing)
[19:17] <Guest21> Hello :).  I'm wanting to install Kubuntu 22.04 on my 2nd hard disk, and am stuck at the first step.  There is a check-box labelled: "Configure secureboot, enter the same password twice.....".  My laptop supports UEFI & Secureboot and I'd like to enable that feature, but I don't know how to proceed.  My first question is - which password?  I
[19:17] <Guest21> don't understand what is needed here or what it does.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
[19:26] <tomreyn> Guest21: the idea there is that you set a password for the first time, which is then stored by your mainboard / bios, this is part of secure boot initialization
[19:28] <Guest21> tomreyn - thanks for the reply, do I need to enter this password on each boot?
[19:28] <tomreyn> a lot can go wrong with 'secure boot', it complicates matters and it doesn't provide a whole lot of guarantees. so a lot of people actually decide against using it
[19:29] <tomreyn> you'll need to enter this password whenever you want to change secureboot settings, including when entirely disabling secure boot.
[19:31] <Guest21> Ah, OK - so I don't really need it.  The only downside I guess is that I'd need to enter UEFI to disable secureboot every time I wanted to boot Kubuntu? (I also have a Win10 installation that uses secureboot)
[19:39] <tomreyn> most operating systems don't actually require secure boot, so maybe you'll want to keep it off generally. but if you want to run a multi boot system then maybe leaving it enabled with kubuntu can actually be the better choice.
[19:41] <Guest21> Thanks for your time, much appreciated.  I'll go ahead and experiment in the hope that it doesn't mess up my Windows disk (I have backups just in case).  Cheers :).
 https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/linux-headers-generic
 Anyone knows what is the actual kernel version behind this
[20:47] <cbreak> IrcsomeBot: ksenchy: it says <IP_ADDRESS>.27 in your own link
[20:48] <cbreak> and you can also see that it depends on the https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/linux-headers-5.15.0-25-generic package
[21:53] <orca33> hi there
[22:02] <orca33> I have Kubuntu 21.10 (impish) on my desktop. In order to try the software Able2Extract Professional, a PDF editor, I downloaded its deb package from the official site, but it requires, among others, the version 1.71.0 of the package libboost-filesystem, instead of the current 1.74.0. In fact, it needs also libboost-regex1.71.0,
[22:02] <orca33> libboost-thread1.71.0, which are not available for impish. They are available for hirsute and focal, indeed. Is there a port for impish? Is it reliable to try and download the debs for those releases and install them under impish?
[22:39] <orca33> No suggestions?
[22:45] <orca33> More generically, is it possible/sensible to try and install older versions of a given deb package? If so, how and which issues might arise?
[22:49] <mmikowski> @orca33 you are now experience the joys of interim releases :)
[22:51] <mmikowski> Sorry if this is old new to you, but just in case: The trouble is that the 6-month release cadence is too fast for many third-party developers. Instead, they focus their energy on LTS releases and build for them.
[22:53] <cbreak> orca33: there's no snap / appimage / flatpack thing for that application?
[22:53] <orca33> I see: if I were with focal, I would then be ok...
[22:53] <cbreak> you could try building one of those, they can contain their own userland, with different library versions
[22:54] <mmikowski> This appears to be the case for Able2Extract. If you are able to install it on Impish it will *probably* work just fine, since the updated libboost-filesystem isn't significantly greater. However, if there is a breaking change, you might be out of luck without the work that @cbreak is detailing.
[22:54] <orca33> cbreak, not AFAIK
[22:54] <cbreak> you could also run the thing inside docker or lxc
[22:54] <mmikowski> @orca33 You could always install focal in a VM and use it there ...
[22:55] <cbreak> lxc is cheaper than a full vm :)
[22:55] <cbreak> even if you use kvm
[22:55] <mmikowski> Sure @cbreak. Any similar sort of environment.
[22:55] <cbreak> I run a firefox inside a 20.04 lxc on my 21.10 kubuntu
[22:56] <cbreak> so gui programs kind of work (there are some issues with screen resolution)
[22:57] <orca33> I have never tried to build a snap , appimage or flatpack for that matter. Neither used lxc; and vm some eons ago...
[22:58] <orca33> mmikowski what does do you mean: "If you are able to install it on Impish..."? How?
[22:59] <mmikowski> @orca33 download the deb, and then `sudo apt install ./<deb-file-name.deb>`
[23:03] <orca33> As simple as that? The worst might happen is the command not working and then I might simply issue: sudo apt --fix-broken install or sudo apt purge <deb_file>; right?
[23:03] <mmikowski> @orca33 fwiw, snaps run in a docker-like environment (lxc) and pull in their own requirements like above.
[23:04] <mmikowski> @orca33 simple as that.
[23:04] <mmikowski> @orca33 if it doesn't work, sudo apt purge <dev_file>.
[23:04] <mmikowski> Notice, it may also be subtly broken, which can be the worst kind of broken sometimes.
[23:05] <mmikowski> The sudo apt --fixbroken install probably won't do the trick.
[23:06] <cbreak> boost should install its libs with version number in the name, so they shouldn't collide
[23:08] <mmikowski> Right @cbreak. However, if the earlier versions of libboost libs are not available in impish and it doesn't allow for later lib versions in it's control file... :P
[23:09] <mmikowski> I mean if the package doesn't allow for later libboost version...
[23:12] <cbreak> that's more a fact of you not having the old package available
[23:12] <cbreak> but what I mean is that IF you got hand of it, it shouldn't collide with the current version
[23:12] <cbreak> probably... :P
[23:12] <mmikowski> ah, I got it @cbreak. You mean also installing the dependencies by hand from the prior repo?
[23:13] <orca33> cbreak and mmikowski nice observations. In fact, I also installed libpoco*70 packages to try and resolve the error, without success. So I guess I will download libboost-[filesystem,regex,thread]1.71.0 from hirsute and see what i get...
[23:13] <mmikowski> Maybe, if they allow concurrent versions. Not a problem with the lib, but could be an issue with the packaging.
[23:14] <mmikowski> Kernels do the right thing there, but lib packages often do not IME.
[23:14] <cbreak> https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/amd64/libboost-regex1.71.0/download
[23:16] <mmikowski> Right. But that will likely want to downgrade the installed libboost-*, which could cause all sorts of issues. In that case, lxc or similar as you suggested earlier would seem much safer.
[23:17] <cbreak> I think they're independent
[23:17] <cbreak> the packages have the version number in the name
[23:17] <cbreak> they're effectively different packages
[23:17] <cbreak> boost is a c++ lib without ABI stability, I think they kind of have to do it that way
[23:17] <mmikowski> Yeah, that's a great point. Similar to kernel images. So the should be able to live together.
[23:17] <cbreak> just like kernels, not designed to be forward or backwards compatible
[23:18] <cbreak> (still, I'd go the lxc route, since I know how to do it :)
[23:18] <cbreak> well... or at least I think I can look up how I did it again...
[23:20] <mmikowski> @cbreak it seems like your suggestion with these libboost-x.x.x packages should be safe, since they won't interfere with anything and likely won't be used elsewhere. And rolling back is as easy as purging the packages.
[23:21] <mmikowski> I haven't used lxc before, but will look into it!
[23:23] <cbreak> I think I used something like https://blog.simos.info/running-x11-software-in-lxd-containers/
[23:24] <mmikowski> @orca33 did you get the suggestion from @cbreak?
[23:24] <mmikowski> It looks like you are on the right path.
[23:24] <mmikowski> @cbreak thanks for the link. I will add it to my thing-to-do ticket.
[23:24] <cbreak> (I think if someone upgrades from 20.04 to 21.10, those old packages could still stick around, so it should be fine)
[23:25] <orca33> Sorry for the silly question: which exact link shoud I use to download, e.g,. libboost-regex1.71.0? I tried cbreak's one above from focal, but did not manage :-(
[23:26] <cbreak> what was the problem?
[23:26] <mmikowski> I think Ubuntu could keep some of those older libs around longer...
[23:27] <cbreak> curl -OL --url http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/boost1.71/libboost-regex1.71.0_1.71.0-6ubuntu6_amd64.deb seems to work
[23:28] <cbreak> of course, I'm assuming here that you're running amd64
[23:29] <orca33> cbreak The curl command worked.
[23:33] <orca33> To double check: I have downloaded the 3 libbost-*1.71.0*.deb packages from focal and now I should dpkg -i each one of them and afterwards try and install the Able2Extract package; right?
[23:33] <cbreak> I'd zfs snap first :P
[23:33] <cbreak> (but it is probably ok)
[23:34] <orca33> cbreak didn´t get this zfs snap stuff...
[23:35] <cbreak> you're not running zfs then, so you can ignore it
[23:36] <orca33> After sudo dpkg -i libboost-filesystem1.71.0_1.71.0-6ubuntu6_amd6.deb , I got the following error: dpkg-deb: error: 'libboost-filesystem1.71.0_1.71.0-6ubuntu6_amd6.deb' is not a Debian format archive
[23:37] <mmikowski> @orca33 you can do `sudo apt install ./libboost*` if you put them alll in a single directory.
[23:37] <orca33> also: dpkg-deb --control subprocess returned error exit status 2
[23:37] <mmikowski> Um, that deb package looks wrong -  the name on the end should be _amd64.deb. Maybe just a cut-n-paste error?
[23:38] <orca33> mmikowski sure
[23:39] <mmikowski> The suggestion for putting all the packages in a subdir and using apt makes sorting dependencies easier. Otherwise, you may need to step through dpkg installs one dependency at a time. Apt will sort all that for you.
[23:40] <mmikowski> As for the file not being debian, that can occur when one downloads files using 'save link as' and accidentally saves the html instead of the package.
[23:43] <cbreak> what does `file` on the archive say?
[23:43] <orca33> I am redownloading the debs
[23:43] <cbreak> I've not tried to install, but file says "libboost-regex1.71.0_1.71.0-6ubuntu6_amd64.deb: Debian binary package (format 2.0), with control.tar.xz, data compression xz"
[23:47] <orca33> sudo apt install ./libboost* gives: E: Invalid archive signature, E: Internal error, could not locate member control.tar{.zst,.lz4,.gz,.xz,.bz2,.lzma,}, E: Could not read meta data from /home/orca/Dropbox/resources/Able2ExtractPro/libboost-filesystem1.71.0_1.71.0-6ubuntu6_amd64.deb, E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
[23:56] <orca33> I tried again with dpkg -i and for the libboost-regex*, it had dependency problems, demanding the libciu66 deb package, whereas the other 2 libboost* showed error exit status 2
[23:57] <orca33> libciu66 -> libicu66
[23:59] <orca33> I guess we should call it a day... Thank you very much for all your effort, guys!


[00:14] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: would your recomment going with natty-desktop-amd64.iso rather than natty-desktop-amd64+mac.iso ?
[00:14] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: and have you managed to boot from usb on your apple hardware... my understanding is that it is not possible
[00:16] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, right, the USB boot will not work, usb-creator will need some changes for that to become possible.
[00:17] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: not even with unetbootin
[00:17] <pace_t_zulu> ?
[00:18] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu unfortunately not, nor if you image a partition on the hard drive with the CD image.
[00:18] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: so which iso do you recommend i burn from?
[00:20] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: based on your experience with your mbp6,2 ?
[00:20] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu I resync'd and reburn'd the 0427.1 and it appears to be working on the MBP6,2.
[00:20] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: ty ... i'll try that now
[00:21] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, right. But I don't imagine that much as changed since MBP6,2 regarding booting. Especially if you cannot boot from USB either.
[00:22] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: well if we know it works for you but not me - then we know it's a hardware change that happened betwee 6,2 and 8,2 ... right?
[00:23] <chadadavis> Try the newest 0427.1 again, and verify the md5sum and burn it slowly. If you like, you can also try the amd64 (non-mac) image. It would be interesting if that worked. I'm not clear on the details of the differences in the mac image.
[00:25] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu I would also try the alternate CD
[00:25] <chadadavis> for Mac, I mean.
[00:26] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: i'll have to wait till i get home for the other images.... the connection is dog slow... opendns
[00:26] <pace_t_zulu> content servers resolve to a west coast geographic location... but i'm east coast
[00:27] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: is live mode available on the alternate cd?
[00:27] <chadadavis> OK, please let me know if you have any luck with the other images.
[00:27] <chadadavis> No, the alternate is the text-mode installer.
[00:27] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: will definitely keep you posted
[00:27] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: that's what i thought... don't think i'm ready to commit to an install
[00:28] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: but i do at least want to help with the hardware testing at the very least
[00:28] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, but it will at least let us know if the MBP8,2 can boot the CD, which is important to figure out.
[00:28] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: exactly
[00:28] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: especially given the fact that there aren't many mbp8,2s out there yet... not as many as there will be
[00:29] <chadadavis> Very true.
[00:29] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: that's really my only motivation here... should have probably gotten involved a couple weeks ago
[00:30] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: rebooting now...
[00:30] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, well, if it's not booting, there will most likely need to be an update in the next few days or weeks, so your help will be appreciated.
[00:31] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: yea... but any will updates after the final iso ever make it into an iso?
[00:31] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: i know they could make it into an iso point release on an LTS...
[00:32] <pace_t_zulu> got splash... but i had that before...
[00:32] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu don't know about that. If the issue is with the ISO itself, that's another issue.
[00:32] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, at what point does the error occur then?
[00:33] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: yea... what i'm talking about is a user who wants to take the live ISO for a spin... but this bug would make them SOL
[00:33] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: same problem...
[00:33] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: i get the splash screen
[00:33] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: then i get 2 lines of a BusyBox message...
[00:33] <pace_t_zulu> then i get that same message
[00:34] <pace_t_zulu> "(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system"
[00:34] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, with the live CD, you saw the accessibility icon (keyboard) at the bottom first?
[00:34] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: yes
[00:35] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: any suggestions for an alternative.... or method to dump a log containing the error message?
[00:36] <pace_t_zulu> perhaps booting with other options?
[00:37] <chadadavis> If you can to the boot menu, some of the options might make a difference, but I'd be guessing here. I'd try to disable acpi first, but otherwise I'm not sure.
[00:38] <pace_t_zulu> this looks like the issue in question: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1458341
[00:40] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: seems like booting with a usb drive connected in is a workaround....
[00:41] <chadadavis> Yes, I just saw that as well. Give it a try.
[00:42] <pace_t_zulu> it boots into unity
[00:43] <pace_t_zulu> but there are serious graphics issues... seems like it keeps switching between the integrated and discreet gpu (maybe) .... but something serious with unity
[00:43] <pace_t_zulu> but that original issue does have a workaround
[00:43] <chadadavis> That's great. It's a start.
[00:44] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: agreed
[00:44] <chadadavis> What do you mean about graphics switching? How can you tell if it's switching modes?
[00:45] <pace_t_zulu> well i'm assuming that on the basis the the screen goes blank then comes back every few seconds... obviously i need to look deeper into it - but that was pure speculation
[00:46] <pace_t_zulu> anyway... i'll be afk for a bit... but very available tonight
[00:48] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu try using the nomodeset option and see if that makes a difference (F6 on boot)
[00:50] <chadadavis> It's 2am here, I have to do more tests in the morning, but let me know how it goes. We should get a note in the release notes regarding MBP8,x series issues. Also have a look at the Ubuntu wiki in case there are tips there, though mostly for older machines.
[02:34] <pace_t_zulu> well the lack of a wireless driver is a deal breaker on a laptop
[02:35] <pace_t_zulu> ubuntu live disc does not work on macbook pro 8,2
[09:28] <jibel> primes2h, ping
[09:49] <primes2h> jibel: pong
[09:49] <primes2h> Hi jibel
[09:50] <jibel> Hey primes2h , how are things ?
[09:50] <primes2h> jibel: not too bad, thanks :-) you?
[09:50] <jibel> Fine, thanks.
[09:51] <jibel> There are tests for i386 and amd64 on the laptop tracker and was wondering if you'll add mac too ?
[09:55] <primes2h> jibel: sure we can, no problem at all. In that case we have to work out the download path I suppose, btw
[09:56] <jibel> primes2h, that's a detail :-)
[09:56] <primes2h> jibel: sure ;-)
[10:03] <primes2h> jibel: just a note, you mean adding new testcases or support  architecture for old mac?
[10:05] <jibel> primes2h, there's currently 2 products Ubuntu Desktop i386/amd64 and I mean adding Ubuntu Desktop amd64+mac
[10:06] <primes2h> jibel: ah, I get it. np, just add a new product to the tracker then.
[10:07] <primes2h> jibel: about testcase, there is already one mac specific (trackpad), more can be added if necessary.
[10:07] <primes2h> jibel: btw, I see that last patch has not landed in the tracker yet
[10:11] <jibel> primes2h, no not yet, I was busy with testing and didn't want to touch the tracker on the release week.
[10:11] <jibel> I'll request an update after the release.
[10:12] <primes2h> jibel: np, I was asking you this just because it fixes a very visible bug
[10:13] <primes2h> jibel: after the release will be fine
[10:13] <jibel> primes2h, I'm sorry, but the risk is too high to break something this week.
[10:14] <primes2h> jibel: I agree :-)
[10:23] <primes2h> jibel: btw, I was wrong, it wasn't the last patch (logo), I was talking about the patch before, it's already been merged but not applied, but I think you understood what I meant. ;-)
[10:23] <jibel> primes2h, sure, I understand that you mean I'm late ;-)
[10:30] <primes2h> jibel: no, I mean I'm sure you understood what patch I was talking about, I would never say that ;-)
[10:31] <jibel> j/k
[10:45] <ara> hey jibel, happy release day :)
[10:45] <ara> jibel, how is everything going?
[10:50] <jibel> Good morning ara, happy release day indeed :-)
[10:50] <jibel> everything's fine, what about you ?
[10:50] <ara> jibel, good thanks :)
[10:51] <ara> jibel, looking forward to UDS to see you guys again
[11:05] <jibel> ara, yeah, I can't wait to see you there.
[13:21] <cprofitt> Happy Release Day Everyone!!
[13:46] <skaet> Thank you very much to everyone who helped with the testing of Natty!
[13:59] <pedro_> anybody with a raid1 and a natty installation? we'd love to have some help verifying bug 761971
[13:59] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 761971 in mdadm (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 2 other projects) "no notification that one of the disks has been disconnected in a raid 1 configurtion (affects: 2) (heat: 20)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761971
[15:41] <primes2h1> jibel: btw, Italian Team greatly beats Texas in testing. ;-) Happy release day!
[15:45] <skaet> Thanks to chadadavis, charlie-tca, hggdh, Riddell, jamespage, jibel, njin, Lance, jdstrand, stgraber, patrickmw, muonata, pedro_, uComputer, GrueMaster, TheMuso, Claudinux, highvoltage, Alessio Grosso Sgarrillo, pgraner, bdmurray, fader_, ScottK, PatrickDK, Mocchi, cyphermox, xdatap1, ara, PaoloRotolo, NightSilente, wobblybob, alo21, gjditchfield, Letozaf_, homitsu, guillemhs, AstralJava, bennachie, Fly82, val, Irihapeti, Shnatsel, nobuto, JanRathm
[15:45] <skaet> ann, starslights, bcbc, freefly, totopalma, primes2h, pitti, ScottL, ptn107, SpamapS, smoser, bambi, apw, bluesscream, chrigu, Tm_T, asasoft, davmor2, pace_t_zulu, Roberto Sbragia, MarcoBuono, kidsodateless, txomon and cpatrick08 for testing the ISOs.  The images would not be able to go out today without your efforts!
[15:46] <stgraber> that's a pretty long list!
[15:46] <chadadavis> :-) And thanks to skaet too
[15:46] <stgraber> and thanks skaet for the great release management!
[15:46] <hggdh> and, hopefully, it will grow :-)
[15:46] <skaet> yeah!  the participation was great!!   Thank you so much!
[15:47] <pedro_> skaet, and thanks to you as well! great release!
[15:47] <fader_> skaet: Thank *you*!
[15:47] <cyphermox> skaet, thanks! \o/
[15:54] <jibel> Thanks you all \o/
[16:03] <patdk-wk> my iscsi tests last night failed :(
[16:03] <patdk-wk> cause my server refused to serve up iscsi targets :(
[16:03] <patdk-wk> it was very strange
[16:04] <patdk-wk> but that server at my house needs a reinstall very badly
[16:05] <patdk-wk> but then, last week I ordered a bunch of new hardware for my house, so should be nice, installing a fc san in my house
[16:05] <patdk-wk> so I'll have to build up a new iscsi server with that
[16:46] <pace_t_zulu> skaet: cheers
[16:46] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: ping
[16:47] <chadadavis> Hi pace_t_zulu. How did it go on the Mac yesterday?
[16:48] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: got the macbook pro 8,2 to boot from the live cd when i attached a usb stick
[16:48] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: and i managed to boot the macbook 4,1 directly from a usb stick - no optical disk
[16:48] <chadadavis> Could you file a bug report in launchpad for that.
[16:48] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: for what?
[16:48] <chadadavis> For the booting on 8,2 I mean.
[16:49] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: i added myself to the existing bug report
[16:49] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: here's the report i got on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/543875
[16:49] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 543875 in casper (Ubuntu) "unable to find a medium containing a live file system (affects: 11) (heat: 76)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:50] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: and you've seen this http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5756/1066
[16:51] <chadadavis> Great. Thanks.
[16:51] <chadadavis> Did you make progress on the video driver issue?
[16:51] <chadadavis> Did you try the current fglrx?
[16:51] <chadadavis> I assume you have the free radeon driver by default.
[16:51] <chadadavis> It is a Radeon card in your MBP8,2 right?
[17:00] <jibel> pace_t_zulu, you'd better file a new bug because your hardware is different from the reporter's hw and the same symptoms can have different root causes. Also, the devs will mark it as duplicate if it is.
[17:09] <astraljava> Yeah thanks skaet as well!
[17:20] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: yea, radeon
[17:21] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu did you try the fglrx driver, the new one works well with my HD 5650
[17:28] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: graphics don't seem to be an issue... that behavior i described yesterday has not recurred
[17:28] <pace_t_zulu> jibel: and cues as to what i should title the bug to get it notices?
[17:28] <pace_t_zulu> s/notices/noticed
[17:44] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: what procedure do you go through to test it (keep in mind i'm still working from live mode)
[17:44] <pace_t_zulu> i may take the time this weekend to partition my hdd to do a proper install
[17:45] <pace_t_zulu> because it seems like there is a lot of ways i can contribute - given the hardware i have access to
[17:46] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu: The live test description is quite simple, you mabe saw it linked from the test page. It's mostly booting and shutting down, also testing persistent storage mode with a USB stick.
[17:46] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, but given your complicated USB scenario, the persistent mode is probably less interesting than figuring the boot out.
[17:47] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: yea... but wouldn't persistence offer more tools for debugging the boot issue out... in terms of having a log
[17:47] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, installing next to Mac OS is quite safe (I'm doing it again as we speak). The most useful tests, I think, would be just using the hardware, camera, mic, wifi, power management, etc.
[17:49] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, you can probably get wifi access in the live session, if the same broadcom driver works on 8,2, then you can save any files over the network. Also if you have a second USB port, which I guess you do, you can also save files on a second USB stick.
[17:49] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: i have done an ubuntu install next to mac os x with my macbook 4,1 ... maverick install
[17:50] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: my understanding is that wifi is unsupported on these new macbook pros
[17:50] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, you can also go through the existing bug, search 'macbook' or 'macbookpro' and see which apply and which don't.
[17:52] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, updating the wiki with some of this might be nice as well. I was going to do that for 6,2, since there are few things that now work in Natty final that weren't working at the beginning.
[17:54] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: you going to be around today?
[17:55] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, yes, I will
[17:56] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: k... my touch base with you to on the bug filing... make sure i file it so that it gets noticed by the right folks
[17:57] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, that's an art I would also like to master better. PS there's also a bug tag 'macbookpro', might be useful to search what's already been reported.
[17:57] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: thanks for the heads up on the macbookpro bug tag
[17:57] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: i reckon we could work together to really improve support for apple hardware
[17:58] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: you on the "Mactel Support Community" on launchpad?
[17:59] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, no, I'm just testing at the moment. But I'm keeping an eye on it.
[18:00] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: you should go ahead and join... you'd be an asset
[18:00] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, sorry, I thought you mean the team, not the community.
[18:00] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: you maintain any of the community documentation for apple hardware on the wiki?
[18:00] <chadadavis> Yes, now I'm on the list. Not at the moment, but I'm planning to update the Natty on 6,2 page soon.
[18:01] <chadadavis> Collecting details and so on now.
[18:01] <pace_t_zulu> cool
[18:04] <primes2h1> Hello manjo.
[18:05] <manjo> primes2h1, NUQNEH!
[18:05] <manjo> :)
[18:07] <primes2h1> manjo: maj, tlhIngan maH! :-)
[18:07] <primes2h1> :p
[18:07] <manjo> heh
[18:07] <manjo> wassap ?
[18:08] <primes2h1> manjo: One day I would like to talk with you about this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelCompatibilityTesting
[18:09] <primes2h1> manjo: It would be really nice to use it for the Laptop Project.
[18:09] <primes2h1> manjo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop
[18:10] <manjo> primes2h1, yeah it was written with that intention .... almost a checkbox replacement .. something that is simpler and manageable
[18:11] <manjo> its just a bunch of shell scripts using dialog to draw the windows button etc .. you can almost replace dialog with xdialog and get pretty buttons etc if you want
[18:11] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: k... gonna file the "(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system"
[18:12] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: any suggestions as to what packages to identify... i assume casper
[18:12] <primes2h1> manjo: yes, it seems to be, next days I'll give it a try..
[18:12] <manjo> primes2h1, I will be glad to help ... just ping me if you find it useful
[18:12] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, maybe initramfs-tools
[18:12] <chadadavis> But I'm guessing.
[18:13] <primes2h1> manjo: sure I will.
[18:13] <primes2h1> manjo: thank you very much!
[18:14] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, I'm just searching LP for related issues, and that seems like a good bet. Also, I would do it via: 'ubuntu-bug initramfs-tools' so that the versions, etc get picked up and added to the report.
[18:14] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: is 'ubuntu-bug' a command line utility?
[18:15] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, it may belong to kernel, but hopefully someone will redirect it accordingly.
[18:15] <manjo> primes2h1, I think the right place to get it is from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/kteam-tools ... I think someone else maintains it now
[18:15] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, yes and it will query the version of eg initramfs-tools and add necessary info to the bug report, i.e. natty, which versions, etc.
[18:15] <manjo> primes2h1, you can compare both versions and see which is newer ...
[18:16] <primes2h1> manjo: ah, don't you mantain it anymore?
[18:16] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, ubuntu-bug will finally open a browser, where you can add comments and the 'macbookpro' tag to your bug report.
[18:17] <manjo> primes2h1, I wrote it and did a bunch of work... now it works and so it lives happily in the kteam-tools repo which is maintained by someone else other than me ...
[18:18] <manjo> primes2h1, but I will be willing to help if you need me
[18:18] <pace_t_zulu> anyone know how to mount a usb stick from the BusyBox environment?
[18:18] <primes2h1> manjo: Tha't nice, thanks a lot. :-)
[18:19] <manjo> primes2h1, I am heading out to grab some lunch ... ping me later next week in case you find it useful for your testing efforts
[18:19] <pace_t_zulu> done....
[18:20] <primes2h1> manjo: ok, have a good lunch. :-)
[18:21] <primes2h1> manjo: your pc say it manjo@hungry LOL
[18:27] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: so these are all the "macbookpro" tagged bugs? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=macbookpro
[18:28] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, you'd have better coverage with text search for macbook, but it might be usefuly to add that tag to new bugs.
[18:29] <chadadavis> pace_t_zulu, also the mactel support project doesn't have any open bugs, though you can assign bugs to that project, as there are about 500 hits when you search for macbook.
[18:37] <pace_t_zulu> chadadavis: cool... thanks
[21:11]  * Patrickdk wonders if ietd just doesn't work with bonding


[13:25] <mnemo> I want to get TV-out working on my laptop..... should I use radeonhd or ati driver? my card is --> 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon XPRESS 200M 5955 (PCIE) [1002:5955]
[13:25] <mnemo> or do I need to use the proprietary driver to get TV-out on ATI ??
[13:40] <tjaalton> mnemo: you could try the latest ati from debian experimental
[13:41] <tjaalton> don't know which chips are supported
[13:45] <mnemo> do you mean this one --> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/xserver-xorg-video-ati ??
[18:53] <tjaalton> bryce: I've replied to m. larabel about the intel performance issue, so hopefully he'll test with dri next time :)
[19:38] <bryce> tjaalton: excellent
[19:38] <bryce> yeah I think once I'm back to work I ought to test drive a couple of my intel boxes and do some performance measurements myself
[21:27] <tjaalton> bryce: well it's a lot faster for me compared to intrepid


[15:08] <alcir> hello
[15:08] <alcir> there is a "standard" way to install java 32 bit on a 64 bit system?
[15:08] <alcir> I mean, using some PPA


[00:39] <FernandoMiguel> nite
[02:56] <joelesko> hey micahg
[03:34] <micahg> hi joelesko
[03:58] <micahg> joelesko: just saw your e-mail, basically, we need to update to 2.3.1 across the board, there are probably a lot of packaging and patch changes needed, I'd be happy to review a merge request, I think chrisccoulson is working on revamping the mozilla packaging soon which would make this easier
[04:06] <micahg> joelesko: actually, Chris has already started on this work, maybe take a look at lp:firefox and see how it can be adapted to the lp:seamonkey branch, it'll probably be Wed or Thurs before I can review though since there are other pressing updates ahead of Seamonkey
[04:09] <micahg> joelesko: by the way, I'm in Central Time
[07:46] <micahg> hi chrisccoulson, I'm on oneiric and have a few issues with thunderbird integration
[08:13] <micahg> chrisccoulson: BTW, I'm making the 6.0.2 tarball right now
[08:31] <micahg> chrisccoulson: 6.0.2+build2 in my p.u.c page
[09:04] <Omega> micahg: I forgot in which channel you just asked about nvidia chips but here: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k2nvl/we_are_the_ubuntu_unity_development_team_we_3/c2h1p6b
[09:05] <micahg> Omega: nvidia was working fine in 11.04
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> asac_, could you add https://launchpad.net/~chrisbot to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily for me please? :)
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> i promise i won't make a ridiculous bid on that laptop ;)
[11:45] <asac_> hehe ... added, adminned
[11:45] <asac_> rebooting
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, bzr-builddeb and devscripts not being installed on lillypilly is a PITA
[14:40] <FernandoMiguel> g'afnoon
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> right, moment of truth. let's see if i can run the daily builds from lillypilly
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, the answer is no
[23:06] <micahg> chrisccoulson: BTW, apport hooks in Debian are allowed if the maintainer wants to allow it


[01:13] <sophie-w> Today:
[01:13] <sophie-w> - Addressed issues on WLCS text input PR and got it merged
[01:13] <sophie-w> - Updated local event positions PR
[01:13] <sophie-w> - Tested and merged Alan's evdev platform PR
[05:57]  * RAOF uploaded an image: (25KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/cooperteam.net/WhCgqTdthXrQNZCEhPwbwHyw/image.png >
[05:57] <RAOF> Should we set the merge limits to Minimum = Maximum = 1, with no delay?
[05:58] <RAOF> We don't have enough merge traffic to make landing more than one PR at a time much of a win, and then we reduce latency and have slightly simpler history.
 "Should we set the merge limits..." <- That, or at least maximum parallel = 1
[07:14] <Saviq> o/
[07:18] <alan_g[m]> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/classic-confinement-request-miriway/33155/19 \o/
[08:04] <RAOF> Today:
[08:04] <RAOF> * Worked on Platform API merge
[08:06] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/ecd0147c4c2b90fa1028b1b8bb79af9ba30de1c0>)
[08:06] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/1cafca8adc2a09bdb03ff7fd0f79d7f9eae838ac>)
[08:14] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/81c44395d03bbeb4e2948d23df957fde25178124>)
[08:14] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/c2c1294220d4d48004ec2ff2ddcc13bf38b659e9>)
[08:14] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/a675bd9d4572b33b338fc7f4d964a265e92a8a84>)
[15:58] <Saviq> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/cf5082cbbf0fec0bbd30d3b7cc3354e8ef2245b9>)
[21:18] <sophie-w> Github is giving me 500s every time I try to create an issue, so putting this here until it can get through.
[21:18] <sophie-w> > Window geometry not respected for popups
[21:18] <sophie-w> I haven't determined the cause so I don't know if this is true in all cases. To reproduce:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/49af657367122527580d8aca3a71a191e3c17a32>)
[21:19] <sophie-w>  * ```I... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/03214085eab33a3ffae1b358a2f55f64847160a4>)
[21:19] <sophie-w>  * ```I... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/1a486393546f3155f61d08ba5cab3cc4e42539da>)
[22:46] <alan_g[m]> Today: refreshing Miriway snap to document tomorrow
[23:36] <sophie-w> Today:
[23:36] <sophie-w> - Fixed merge conflicts on popup dismissal WLCS PR (https://github.com/MirServer/wlcs/pull/223)
[23:36] <sophie-w> - Fixed popup dismissal WLCS PR (https://github.com/MirServer/wlcs/pull/223)
[23:36] <sophie-w> - Noticed popup window geometry bug (https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2941)
[23:36] <sophie-w> I'm off tomorrow and the next day for jury duty FYI