Hello Glassman

Considering all of the information provided below, the ground truth policy, and best practices for user safety, I am strongly against the removal of this trail.

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I have had conversations with two users regarding this trail.

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User "dalbertlebrun" had previously sent me a message in April of 2024 regarding this trail and others in the region. dalbertlebrun is a GIS specialist and new member of North Shore Search and Rescue (NSR). dalbertlebrun requested several trails be removed, some that are difficult and may pose dangerous to inexperienced users and some that pose no danger but are wanted removed for social reasons. I explained to dalbertlebrun that the OSM US Trails Working Group had recently done work to ensure that trails with certain tags show up with less emphasis or not at all in mainstream applications to discourage inexperienced users. I also explained that the best approach would be for members of the NSR group to contribute to OpenStreetMap to ensure all trails are tagged fully and correctly. I also said that I was open to reviewing trails if there was a specific rescue case. dalbertlebrun has not reached out to me again and members of the NSR group have not contributed to OpenStreetMap.

It is of my opinion that the NSR group is the likely complainant group. Several of the groups members have a very poor understanding of OpenStreetMap and have several falsehoods leading back to a case that happened 6 years ago. It is also my understanding that the group has not contributed to OpenStreetMap even after several offers were made and assistance was sought over the past several years. 

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User "Bookwus" had previously sent me a message in August of 2024 regarding the "Taint" trail and of trails in general. Bookwus stated:

"I believe these should be mapped in OSM, but they shouldn’t necessarily be published in other apps like AllTrails or GaiaGPS. A specific example is the Taint at Grouse Mountain area. This trail is in an area with many hikers who might be tempted to try it if they see it on a map, but due to the serious exposure and the requirement for solid scrambling skills (making it unsuitable for beginners), this could lead to severe accidents."

I explained to Bookwus how tagging can alter rendering in mainstream applications and we ultimately jointed decided to upgrade the sac_scale tag from "alpine_hiking" to "demanding_alpine_hiking", which Bookwus undertook in changeset #155799247. This will result in the trail no longer showing up at all in the most popular mainstream applications (AllTrails and GaiaGPS). AllTrails has already updated their OSM dataset and the trail no longer shows up. GaiaGPS has not updated their OSM dataset yet.

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If there is a specific rescue or near miss case then I am open to reviewing the trails tagging again to ensure it is accurately described. I will prioritize a re-survey of this trail in the near future to double check it's current tagging given it's heightened use. 

Thank you, eerib